# Ball python age



## Pebble (10 d ago)

As the tittle says I'm having trouble figuring out my ball python's age. I got him from a PetSmart (ik terrible) back in November and they said they get their snakes at about 6 months and this particular guy has already been there about a month or so. This would put him about 9-10 months. The problem is he's not measuring at that age. He's 18 inches (which seems accurate) but he's only 74 grams (73 when we got him). He doesn't necessarily look underweight but he also isn't growing much, he hasn't even had a shed yet.
















This is him as of yesterday. I don't know if I'm just measuring him wrong or PetSmart lied to me (wouldn't surprise me) but I just want him to be happy and healthy.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

One of the pitfalls of buying from a retailer rather than private breeder as the latter should (if you get a good one) provide all feeding, shedding, weight and other records from birth / hatch date.

You cant age a snake by weight or length. Females tend to put on girth more than males, but it also depends on the size/amount of food they have been fed and how often. All you can go by is the date you purchased it. 

Keeping records to provide a history of the snake is IMO is just about as important as any other aspect of the hobby. I use Reptiware to document all my snakes activities


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Looking at the images the snake is IMO under weight. Its backbone is prominent, and forms a ridge rather than being flat across the back. I had hatchlings that weighed more than your 74g when they were less than two months old. I fact most of my hatchlings were over 100g by the time they were 7 weeks old. By the time they were 7 or 8 months they tipped the scales at over 400g.

Start offering your snake large adult mice of around 30g (frozen) each week, or better still weaner rats of around 50g every week for the next six months and then drop it down to every 10 days.. that should start to build him up.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

At just 18 inches, I would suggest a large adult mouse would be too big and will cause further problems. 
Personally I would offer a small mouse to begin with. Get it feeding before getting growth. It is definitely underweight.
If a small mouse is refused, a rat pup is a good alternative.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Looks underweight. 

Offer rat pups of fluffs. In my opinion better to get them on rats as early as possible, as they can be funny to change over when they are needed.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Agree, my first thought was the Royal is underweight even if it's a male. 
I got mine at 3 months old and they weighed 120g and easily took a 20 - 30g multimammate.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Ball/royal pythons are typically a fairly stocky species.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the age, but does not look like he‘s in peak condition, and the lack of weight gain or shed is a potential concern.

How would you describe feeding and appetite?
Any issues?

Cool to catch a shot of the yawn. If this is frequent, or noticing mucous, including smears on the glass, then check for respiratory infection.

I would keep handling to a minimum until weight gain is confirmed. 

Hopefully the python will settle in, and you’ll gain confidence and insight, but keep attentive and look out for improved body condition.


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## Pebble (10 d ago)

Thanks for all the advice it was super helpful. I try to research my pets as much as possible before getting them, then again when I have free time (it becomes a hyper fixation). The yawn pic was just a few minutes after he ate so that's not too concerning, he doesn't yawn often at all unless he just ate. When I first brought him home he ate a pinky mouse with no problems. Soon after that I went back to where I got him to ask questions and see what info they can give me. They told me they fed him fuzzy mice but he would refuse them occasionally. He refused he next feed and the 4 after that as well which, as you can imagine, was extremely concerning to me so I decided it was time to help him out a bit. As soon as I got the mous into his mouth he had no problems. I had to assist his last meal as well. When I try to feed him he seems interested but he never goes for it, if that makes sense?

I've researched more and have decided to offer his food every 5 days instead of every 7 to hopefully get his weight up. Other than being underweight he isn't showing any signs of being sick. He loves exploring his enclosure, drinks plenty of water, and utilities all of his decor/branches ect. He also seems to really enjoys being handled? I know that sounds weird and most people say reptiles don't like it but he loves chilling with us while we do daily things and whenever I go to put him back in his enclosure, he just goes right back up my arm. That's actually the reason I thought he was refusing food, he seemed interested then just tried to get back into my arm.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

A picture of Fluffy to give you an idea of how thin your Royal is. This was Fluffy when I got them. They were 3 months old, 120g and as you can see, has the chunky body that Royals should have.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Pebble said:


> . He also seems to really enjoys being handled? I know that sounds weird and most people say reptiles don't like it but he loves chilling with us while we do daily things and whenever I go to put him back in his enclosure, he just goes right back up my arm. That's actually the reason I thought he was refusing food, he seemed interested then just tried to get back into my arm.


Can you give some information on your set up ie temperatures, heat source etc. I ask this because you may find he's actually climbing on you to warm up.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Pebble said:


> Thanks for all the advice it was super helpful. I try to research my pets as much as possible before getting them, then again when I have free time (it becomes a hyper fixation). The yawn pic was just a few minutes after he ate so that's not too concerning, he doesn't yawn often at all unless he just ate. When I first brought him home he ate a pinky mouse with no problems. Soon after that I went back to where I got him to ask questions and see what info they can give me. They told me they fed him fuzzy mice but he would refuse them occasionally. He refused he next feed and the 4 after that as well which, as you can imagine, was extremely concerning to me so I decided it was time to help him out a bit. As soon as I got the mous into his mouth he had no problems. I had to assist his last meal as well. When I try to feed him he seems interested but he never goes for it, if that makes sense?
> 
> I've researched more and have decided to offer his food every 5 days instead of every 7 to hopefully get his weight up. Other than being underweight he isn't showing any signs of being sick. He loves exploring his enclosure, drinks plenty of water, and utilities all of his decor/branches ect. He also seems to really enjoys being handled? I know that sounds weird and most people say reptiles don't like it but he loves chilling with us while we do daily things and whenever I go to put him back in his enclosure, he just goes right back up my arm. That's actually the reason I thought he was refusing food, he seemed interested then just tried to get back into my arm.


I feel the shop should not have released the baby if it was not a consistent feeder.

Good point from Elly!

Reasons a young ball python might not eat is underlying health issue, unsettled, or setup not quite optimal.
Balls need a high ambient, not just basking temperature.
If they are a bit cold they might not feed and they might be restless, looking for somewhere warmer.

Typical is a couple of hours of nocturnal activity, and then more sedentary at other times. Some balls may be more active daytime, but that isn’t a normal trend.

Agree, they could be seeking out your warmth, rather than wanting to socialise, as such.

Confirm what the setup is like, and members can try to troubleshoot any issues. 
The other aspect is getting the meal item nice and warm to trigger the strike.

Force / assist feeding can be very stressful for them, and doesn’t aid building a positive experience with feeding (Can lead to aversion, or even stress induced death). Experienced keepers have ways and means of using forced/assist feeding, but a new snake and new keeper trying this may not be best way forward.

A royal would never start on mice pinkies (meal is too small, and limited nutritional value). Mice fluffs, hoppers and rat pups would likely be better options.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Post up a picture of the snakes enclosure. It's often easier to make suggestions of how you may improve it's environment when we can see what you've done. My guess is that as you are based in the US that you are using a glass tank / vivarium which may need a few alterations in order to make it more settling for the snake.


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## Pebble (10 d ago)

Thanks again. I am aware that assisted feeding can be stressful and it absolutely was for me, I about cried 🥲 he didn't seem too phased by it, immediately back to normal behavior although I know that is no indication of stress and I would absolutely love to get him back to eating on his own.








This is an overview of his tank-its the biggest I had, I want to say it's a 50 gallon but I'm not sure as I got it from a friend who was throwing out all of her old tanks. I cluttered it as much as I could after reading how ball pythons are more comfortable in cluttered enclosures. He spends most of his time in the skull but often comes out to lay on the branch under the lamp. I did recently read that it's better for them to have a heat lamp that doesn't produce light? I'm currently reading further into that.

I'm having trouble keeping the humidity up the most, I mist the tank once a day and have multiple fake plants scattered around. Any tips would be helpful  
I do want to say that I'm saving for a new enclosure, I can't decide between a front opening tank or the PVC(?) Looking ones (basically boxes with a glass front?)

I think I didn't realize how underweight he was because I was under the impression he was a baby baby. Now I feel terrible I didn't realize sooner :/ I really appreciate all the advice and information you guys have thank you again <3


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

I suspect your ambient temps are getting too low, even if the basking temp is adequate.
You are going to have some challenges with the tank/mesh lid.

Glass tanks are good at dispersing heat, which also means they don’t retain heat so well as wooden or Plastic vivs.
As a temporary fix, you could line three sides with some sort of insulating material, reflective foil sheets/cardboard, polystyrene sheets (I forget what you call it in the states)?

The other issue is the mesh lid. Most of the heat (and humidity) will be dispersing from here. 
Fixes can include covering most of the mesh with Perspex, or another insulating sheet.

These will help to retain more warmth and some humidity.

The secondary issue to follow up is ventilation. A tank provides no means of low level air flow. Short term it might not present a problems, but a lack of air circulation could in the medium term lead to stale air, mould spores, possibly even carbon dioxide building up. Chances are these could develop some issues over a medium term timescale. 
Could be mitigated by opening up lid, and ventilating, or even installing a reptile safe fan to better circulate air.
Ultimately it is likely to be easier to source a more suitable vivarium. I have successfully maintained a Brazilian Rainbow boa in a glass viv, but it did require more tinkering, and it did have a side section with a ventilation grille.

Start by ordering a digital IR temperature gun, which you can use to spot measure temps around the viv, and compare these to recommended guideline temps.

Hope this helps.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Basically you are wasting a lot of heat. Glass as mentioned above is not good at retaining heat, and you have a totally open top, which as heat rises is going into your room. The problem is that adding polystyrene tiles to the outside of the tank and covering the top with a solid panel of wood, whilst it will retain more heat will lead to ventilation issues. Tanks are only really suitable for fish, not reptiles. I would suggest you look at making or purchasing a standard box type vivarium with either sliding glass doors (although acrylic seems to be popular over your side of the pond). This would give you a better option to maintain temperature and humidity. The choice of wood or 1/2" PVC is down to you. Royals don't need excessive humidity, so the advantage of PVC may be wasted.

Personally do away with the skull.... there have been cases where snakes get stuck through the eye sockets of these things. Keep it more natural looking with branches, and hides made from cork bark or natural rocks (use aquarium sealant to secure the rocks just to be on the safe side).


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## Pebble (10 d ago)

Thank you that's good information I figured the lid had something to do with it. As for the skull I never planned on keeping it in there with him but he likes it and at the time it was the only thing I had as a hide. I have been keeping a very close eye on how he fits in it though, I was worried he'll get stuck. There's a larger whole in the back and the bottom is open. He still fits in the eye holes with wiggle room but I do definitely plan on getting something else for a hide before he gets big enough to not fit.

I didn't know most of that about the tank though, I love being educated ☺. So basically I need a more secure enclosure with ventilation.









This is the enclosure I've been looking at. It's 4x2x2 (feet) which I've heard is ideal for an adult ball python. Do you guys think this would be a good enclosure for him?


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

That would be a decent enclosure that will make a nice life long home. Check the vents don't easily push out ( a drop of glue can sort that if it does). Provided you include lots of hiding places and cover with artificial plants the royal would be fine


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Re getting him to eat - are you warming his food? Defrost and then blast with a hairdryer until it feels warm to touch. That method got my Royal feeding well and a year on Fluffy is now taking food just placed in the vivarium. 

The vivarium you've shown is definitely much better that a tank. The size will make getting a cool and hot end much easier. It will retain heat and humidity so much better as well. For heat I use a ceramic heater on a pulse thermostat and for light I use a uva/uvb tube. Light goes off at night.


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## Pebble (10 d ago)

To warm his food I put the mouse in a cup of hot water until it thaws and I've never had a problem with doing it this way until this stubborn boy. I'll definitely be trying the hair dryer though. I'm really excited for that enclosure too I've wanted one for so long and I can't wait to set it up and decorate and watch Mr Nippy explore.

I checked on him yesterday and he's up to 77 grams 😁


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