# Hand rearing Grey squirrels



## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

Hey dudes, 

Does anyone know the laws regarding what to do if you happen across orphaned baby grey squirrels???


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## Tedster (Nov 24, 2010)

kellystewart said:


> Hey dudes,
> 
> Does anyone know the laws regarding what to do if you happen across orphaned baby grey squirrels???



Leave them as there vermin . :censor: Millions of the :censor: things as it is . Dont mean to sound cruel BTW


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

if you hand rear you cant release them back into the wild as they are vermin.


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## Adams Corns (Aug 5, 2010)

my next door neighbour did it last year as she found a baby in her garden and waitied for it parents to come back but they didnt and so she hand rear it, but im not 100% sure if its legal or not , now she has a squirrel that comes and goes as it pleases,it will only go on her shoulder but will walk up to anyone and take nuts from your hands, and most people around are area know it, we call it sammy ,


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

As has been said there's no law that stops you handrearing a grey squirrel, but there is a law that stops you releasing it back into the wild, although it can be done under licence, but your chances of getting a licence are basically zilch!!!

If you take it to the vet, the vet is supposed to euthanase as a non-native species. Most vets do, but some are not happy to do that and they will phone around wildlife sanctuaries to see if they will take it.

To be honest, if you've found one and want to handrear it, be careful who you let know you have it and if you plan to release it, then do it in a very quiet place and don't let on!!!

If you want advice on how to handrear I'm happy to help as I've handreared baby squirrels (although mine were red), but the way that I see it a squirrel is a squirrel is a squirrel and just cos it's wearing a different coat doesn't make it any less cute or vermin!


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

They are legally supposed to be euthanised because they are classed as 'vermin', bullshit. We carry more diseases than anything else. I say hand rear it (don't let it get attached to you or it has no chance), and release it, just make sure you don't get seen doing it! Or just say 'it escaped'  
Feed it on a mixture of kitten milk and a bird rearer called 'Exact'. I've had many successes using this method. Good luck mate


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Sorry didn't see Feorags comment before I posted. They might have better advice


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

Yeah that's what I though...not guilty on this occasion but a friend asked me for advice on the subject and said I'd research a little for him.

Feorag I'll PM you once I know what he is doing


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i hand raised one years ago... great pets!

as for the law there... how the heck can anyone in authority know that you released anything?

...oh, i forgot... you have all those cameras there that watch your every move...

... never mind...:whistling2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

maybe they can post it back to you habu

:lol2:


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

geckocrazy14 said:


> They are legally supposed to be euthanised because they are classed as 'vermin', bullshit.


LOL they are classed as vermin as they are taking territory from our native red squirrels, not because they carry disease.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

You realise the actual definition for vermin is 'an irritating or obnoxious person' I'm not being sarcastic either. Grey squirrels shouldn't of been introduced to our country, but that's not their fault.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Heres one I handreared last year, Im hoping to do more this year too

Change in grey squirrel law http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3378581.ece


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## snowdrop (Feb 5, 2011)

geckocrazy14 said:


> They are legally supposed to be euthanised because they are classed as 'vermin', bullshit. We carry more diseases than anything else. I say hand rear it (don't let it get attached to you or it has no chance), and release it, just make sure you don't get seen doing it! Or just say 'it escaped'
> Feed it on a mixture of kitten milk and a bird rearer called 'Exact'. I've had many successes using this method. Good luck mate


The only problem with releasing something that's been brought up by humans is they have no instinct. What about if a female squirrel had her own babies, maybe her instinct wouldn't kick in and she abandon the babies and this carried on through generations and generations, more and more babies would be being left by there mum (maybe to die) and possibly falling into the wrong hands (hand rearing wise)
It must by a lovely feeling seeing something you hand reared everyday but in its own world they could be showing more certain qualities that weaken them in very day life. I can see why some people could, and some people wouldn't, but if it was me I would hand rear it but no let/him or her back into the wild BUT that's just me : victory:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

But that depends on how you release it. A hard release is harder on an animal, but wild animals have a natural distrust of humans, even if they are hand reared. They might never forget the person who handreared them, but that doesn't mean to say that they will treat every human they meet with that level of trust, because most of them don't.

The best way to do it for the animal is a soft release, but that would be very difficult to do with a grey squirrel, sadly.

And don't underestimate the natural instinct of any animal. Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years, but a lot of them will move their kittens at 3 weeks because instinct tells them the nest area isn't safe from predators any more, but domestic cats living in a house don't have predators, yet they still do it.

The final flaw in your post is that if a handreared female lost the instinct on how to look after her babies, they wouldn't live to have babies, surely? Therefore it couldn't pass down generations???


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> But that depends on how you release it. A hard release is harder on an animal, but wild animals have a natural distrust of humans, even if they are hand reared. They might never forget the person who handreared them, but that doesn't mean to say that they will treat every human they meet with that level of trust, because most of them don't.
> 
> The best way to do it for the animal is a soft release, but that would be very difficult to do with a grey squirrel, sadly.
> 
> ...


 
:2thumb:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I handreared two (a brother and sister) wild brown rats in 2009... Even before their eyes opened, I was "Mom" and nobody else was able to feed them (they'd scream and kick until I had them again). The male went completely (and scarily) wild after sexual maturity, so "escaped" into some woodland (into some brambles, actually... And his name was Bramble). His sister, however, never went "wild".... She's not tame, but definitely not wild, either. She's very distrustful of anybody, but me (and even I can't pick her up anymore).... She'll be two this May and still lives happily with her fancy rat cagemates. She takes treats from me and is always curious about what I am doing... And depending on her mood, sometimes I can pet her  She truly is beautiful. Don't let anybody tell you that because a critter is "vermin", it has any less right to live than anything else.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Feorag, well said


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Amalthea, that's cute , shame you couldn't release the female! I have a similar story, I hand reared 6 field mice (only 2 survived), I had to keep them as pets :/, they are called Patch and Bella. Unfortunately for Patch, he had no chance as he was only born with 1 eye and Bella wouldn't of survived on her own as they are supposed to be released in groups.. Another thing is, they still to this day jump on my hand & start suckling on the fat bits of my hands (lol) so they are very tame, but I assume they are happy, they are now in with a domestic mouse double the size of them both! So glad that worked . 
Patch has been castrated by the way. , what a mission for the vets that was! Lol. 
Here's a pic of them together!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

How lovely!!! 

Here's one of mine when he/she was a baby:










Bracken as a teenager 










Bramble as a teenager










Bracken now


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Ahh that's so cute! Look at him/her sucking at the syringe! Haha bless them! Well done  x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I handreared 2 red squirrels 3 years ago and they had to have a soft release because they were late born babies (July) and a hard release would have meant that they wouldn't have had time to stash their winter larder to see them through the winter.

We raised money to build a pen in a garden in a village which had lots of red squirrels around. The garden backed onto a river which ran for miles up country with loads of pine and evergreen woods right so the situation was perfect. They lived in my house and a rat pen in the garden, coming into the house every day to run around and exercise until mid-December, when the pen was built and ready for them and they lived in that pen being fed by the owners of the garden until mid-May when they were released.

Obviously they were very tame (and squirrels are very intelligent) and could be handled by us at any time without problem, so my husband and I kept away deliberately after they went into the pen for over a month. We then went up to replenish all the food supplies we'd given the people who were feeding them and to clean up the pen a bit. We did that again another month later. Right up to release day (at which point we'd been up about 4 times, as soon as we walked into that pen, both squirrels ran straight to us and jumped on us and proceeded to stuff hazelnuts down the back of our necks (as per usual) and yet they were fed every day by the owners of the garden for 5 months and always ran and hid when they came to the pen, so they had a natural distrust for everyone but us.

They were released in May and continued to come back to the garden for food, with the other wild squirrels who used to sit on the pen and 'talk' to them, for the next year. The owners of the garden now say that they can't differentiate them from the wild ones around them, so can't be certain they are still coming back, but every now and then they see one which they think is one of ours. :2thumb:

2 days after I brought them home










9 weeks later










Plaguing my poor cats










Release day on my husband's head as he removes the pen door










1 out and 1 not sure whether he wants to or not! :lol:










And my 2 favourite videos 

YouTube - 9 week old red squirrels think I'm a tree

YouTube - 16 wk old red squirrel trying to sleep up my jumper.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Feorag, they're beautiful! Well done for everything you did for them


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> maybe they can post it back to you habu
> 
> :lol2:


 
not too many squirrels around me here... in the cities there are more squirrels than the countryside... cincinnati is positively infested with squirrels... white ones are common there too.

here they are hunted heavily.... i hardly see a wild squirrel in my woods... the ones there are very secretive... laying low from the hunters...


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

I love the reds, HATE the greys, round here my neighbours shoot them without a second thought. Can't say I blame them, thanks to the greys I have never seen a wild red squirrel... greys are rats with fluffy tails basically, they killed some farm kittens where I used to live years ago. It put me off greys for life!


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I think I'm very much in the minority in not completely agreeing with the anti-grey brigade. 

Call me a romanticist, but the way I see it is that the grey squirrel didn't actively want to be here. It didn't swim across the Atlantic and it isn't their fault that the red squirrels fled after some naive aristocrats thought they'd look quaint in their country park. There is barely any evidence to support claims that they 'attack' red squirrels and in actual fact the majority of evidence points towards them simply inhabiting the space vacated by red squirrels who were seemingly already on the decline. Grey squirrels are also generally more successful when competing for food. 

While I accept that it is a big problem in general, I just hate the sheer venom that a lot of people (and I'm not on about this forum in particular; just the general arguments that are bandied around) seem to have for a creature, irrespective of its emergence in this environment. I can't fathom it.


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

And good luck with the hand rearing  Good on you.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Pippainnit, well said, totally agree!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Disgruntled said:


> I love the reds, HATE the greys, round here my neighbours shoot them without a second thought. Can't say I blame them, thanks to the greys I have never seen a wild red squirrel... greys are rats with fluffy tails basically, they killed some farm kittens where I used to live years ago. It put me off greys for life!


If there wasn't a grey squirrel in this country, you'd still have problems ever seeing a red, because the reds are so reclusive compared to greys.

Reds would still be in small numbers, because we humans have chopped down loads of their pine forests that they need to live and they just will not live near to humans, so when they lose habitat they move - ever northwards. We've also killed loads of them, because we didn't like the way they were damaging our trees and they were killed for sport - in fact there was a squirrel shooting club in Scotland last century which did for a lot of reds in Scotland. 

Greys spend more time on the ground than reds, who seldom do come down to the ground unless they *have *to for food. Consequently greys will live in public parks when they lose habitat, reds would *never *do that. They have smaller litters so aren't as productive breeders as the greys. The Forestry Commission put out a directive to plant deciduous trees around coniferous forests and that gave the greys the chance to 'hopscotch' into red squirrel territory and the reds moved on. Now the Forestry Commission (who also killed loads of reds last century) have now changed their stance and don't recommend this, but again the damage has been done.

To be honest to me a grey is just a squirrel wearing a grey coat - I don't see any difference and quite frankly if we cared enough about preventing the decline of the reds, we should have done something 50 years ago when it was first considered that greys were beginning to over-populate. Instead we ignored the signs, ignored the advice of wildlife experts and suddenly when it's just about too late, decide we're going to kill as many grey squirrels as we can and will it make a difference now? No way - it's too late.

As far as I see it if the only squirrel I can see is a grey squirrel then I'd rather have that than none at all!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

The same thing happens with the greys at home (in the NW US)... People HATE the greys, but love the reds. Shame. It's not their fault.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

You have an ethical obligation not to hand rear and release it. There are regular culls across the country to try and keep this species under control...without which, our own native species will eventually lose the very few habitats that it has left. You may say "well it's only one squirrel", but I personally couldn't have the loss of the red squirrel on my conscience.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> You have an ethical obligation not to hand rear and release it. There are regular culls across the country to try and keep this species under control...without which, our own native species will eventually lose the very few habitats that it has left. You may say "well it's only one squirrel", but I personally couldn't have the loss of the red squirrel on my conscience.


 
Maybe we should dispose of the main culprit of the decline of red squirrels, MAN!!
Licenses are granted for greys as long as its not in a place where reds inhabit and where greys already reside.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> Bloody 'ell, I can't believe I'm even having to justify that to grown women that are my seniors!


Considerably so, I believe! :lol2:

The probem is, as I've said it's too little too late.

I live in Northumberland and over 20,000 grey squirrels have been killed up here in the last 4 years, but it's not stopping them!

Lord Redesdale got funding from DEFRA to do this for 3 years to create buffer zones around forests where reds are living and breeding, but the 3 years are now up! I'm not sure if he's managed to arrange more funding, but if he hasn't then the greys march on!

But I still see no harm in releasing a grey squirrel if it's anywhere south of Yorkshire, because most of the midlands and south of England are wholly populated by greys and the red will never get back there!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> I have not denied this. It's completely true.....but I'm pretty sure the only way we are really going to help the red squirrel now after all our damage done, is by trying to slow the grey's inevitable march northwards. I really don't think a mass wipeout of the human british population is very feasible, do you?
> 
> Bloody 'ell, I can't believe I'm even having to justify that to grown women that are my seniors!
> 
> In conclusion, the grey baby in question should not be reared and returned to the wild.


 
That baby is one I handreared and that photo was taken last autumn, once weaned I handed the squirrel back to the dedicated rescue.
I have never seen a wildlife rescue kill a grey squirrel yet and many are released back into the wild. Have you never watched Wildlife aid on TV?


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

I agree with Shell, wiping out mankind is the only solution


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've seen plenty of white ones...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

what will you do when raccoons and skunks get established there?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I just find it hard to interpret the problem - and part of its solution - as a case such as the handrearing of _one_ baby grey squirrel and whether or not this should be released/put to sleep or for 'nature to take its course.' 

I'm not saying my opinion is without fault, and it's largely to my detriment as I struggle to detach myself from seeing a sentient creature struggling that needs human intervention as playing a role in the mass problem of the red squirrel's demise. I think it goes far beyond this and like I said in my previous post, while I by no means am ignorant of the overall situation and issue, I think it's far too easy to vilify the grey squirrel when other additional factors are at play - which have been raised by those who know far more about it than I do.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

just keep a grey squirrel... don't release them... they make fine pets...

why don't they just hunt them? that would get rid of them pretty much... squirrel is good...

raccoons, opossums, skunks and many other things are vermin there... people keep them...


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

The white "grey" is lovely, Habu!


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

just a quick question as this thread got me thinking: if you handreared a wild born grey squirrel, would there be any legal implications to you keeping it as a pet? as its not protected i assume you wouldnt need article 10 style paperwork, but would you need a licence of some discription as it would officially have been wild caught?

personally id love a pet grey squirrel :flrt: i keep looking at the 'exotic' squirrels available to buy as pets, but id have a grey over one of them any day.


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> You have an ethical obligation not to hand rear and release it. There are regular culls across the country to try and keep this species under control...without which, our own native species will eventually lose the very few habitats that it has left. You may say "well it's only one squirrel", but I personally couldn't have the loss of the red squirrel on my conscience.


Eh excuse me...I don't have any ethical obligation as it's not me who has them like I clearly said.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

feorag said:


> What's playground rubbish about objecting to being quoted as saying something I didn't say?
> 
> We both had the same basic argument because it is based on fact - that the demise of the red squirrel has more to do with man's greed for land and building, mismanagement of their habitat and persecution of them, rather than just man's ignorance in introducing a non-native species to compete with them. Either way you look at it, their problem is based around humans, not just grey squirrels!Wake up woman! I didn't deny the situation was down to humankind...I was pointing out it is down to us to try and correct it! Find a SENSIBLE and WORKABLE solution...not just bury our heads in the sand and say "well its done now, even though it was all our fault". Sensible is not destroy mankind etc. DUH!
> 
> ...



Right, I'm off now as I refuse to get into trouble on account of you and your ridiculous ideals.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> Right, I'm off now as I refuse to get into trouble on account of you and your ridiculous ideals.


 
Too late.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Eileen, when did you get nekkid kitties?!? :gasp::whistling2::flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Eileen, when did you get nekkid kitties?!? :gasp::whistling2::flrt:


:lol2: Think they're hiding around the house somewhere!


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

vetdebbie said:


> LOL they are classed as vermin as they are taking territory from our native red squirrels, not because they carry disease.


so do we alot more than them, i hate the non native argument, i once saw a person arguing that red deer are non native because they only arrived here in the last ice age, in that case we are a non native species are we not.



snowdrop said:


> The only problem with releasing something that's been brought up by humans is they have no instinct. What about if a female squirrel had her own babies, maybe her instinct wouldn't kick in and she abandon the babies and this carried on through generations and generations, more and more babies would be being left by there mum (maybe to die) and possibly falling into the wrong hands (hand rearing wise)
> It must by a lovely feeling seeing something you hand reared everyday but in its own world they could be showing more certain qualities that weaken them in very day life. I can see why some people could, and some people wouldn't, but if it was me I would hand rear it but no let/him or her back into the wild BUT that's just me : victory:


instinct is the behaviours and survival skills an animal is born with, that are ingrained into their very being no amout of humanisation can remove this in one generation



Disgruntled said:


> I love the reds, HATE the greys, round here my neighbours shoot them without a second thought. Can't say I blame them, thanks to the greys I have never seen a wild red squirrel... greys are rats with fluffy tails basically, they killed some farm kittens where I used to live years ago. It put me off greys for life!


i had something to say here but i've forgot what :lol2:


HABU said:


> just keep a grey squirrel... don't release them... they make fine pets...
> 
> why don't they just hunt them? that would get rid of them pretty much... squirrel is good...
> 
> raccoons, opossums, skunks and many other things are vermin there... people keep them...


everyone i know who hunts animals say their a waste of time because they are too easy to shoot


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

untill we moved last year we were foster parents to orphans through the meon Valley rescue, any found babies would be refered to the nearest rearer and we'd have 6 or so per year. We lived on a big park/estate (hubby was the groundsman) and they were literally allowed to go when ready, they would be in the house to begin with then moved to an avairy which at the right time would simply be left open. Most stayed in the vicinity of the house and would come back for food etc however we never handled them once they'd gotten big enough to be independant at eating etc and although they weren't frightened of us they weren't pets. I personally think it would be cruel to keep them, ours had no problems adapting and would come back to the aviairy at night for a few times untill they'd found their own place in the tree's/bushes. They can be agressive as adults and need the company of others as they are very socialable, they are great little creatures to rear though and are easy to bottle feed/wean etc they pretty much wean themselves and will take to the bottle very quickly. The formular we used was scalded whole goats milk (whole cows will do but goats doesn't upset the tums as much) live whole yoghurt and Abidec childrens vit drops, given frquently to start with then as they want it, they wake and come out of the 'nest' looking when they get a bit older. Warmth is very important when really tiny as is wiping bums to encourage going to the toilet.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm down as a contact for Meon Valley too, although grey squirrel babies to rear are few and far between up here in Northumberland, because we still have 5 red squirrel reserves, so most grey babies are pts by local vets.

I also make pouches for Meon Valley for their babies to sleep in! :2thumb:


miss_ferret said:


> just a quick question as this thread got me thinking: if you handreared a wild born grey squirrel, would there be any legal implications to you keeping it as a pet? as its not protected i assume you wouldnt need article 10 style paperwork, but would you need a licence of some discription as it would officially have been wild caught?
> 
> personally id love a pet grey squirrel :flrt: i keep looking at the 'exotic' squirrels available to buy as pets, but id have a grey over one of them any day.


I actually answered this question, but because the thread has been cleaned up my reply has vanished and I'm not sure whether you read it or not.

The wildlife sanctuary where I work had 2 grey squirrels and we were told 2 years ago that we needed to have a licence to keep them. It seems even Natural England and DEFRA didn't know this because we'd asked in the past if all our paperwork etc was correct for all our animals and we'd been told yes. A red squirrel fanatic in the village had caused us so much grief because of these 2 greys that this came to light.

However, I'm pretty sure there are lots of people out there with grey squirrels who don't have licences, simply because they don't know they should.


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## AMDNORTH (Mar 5, 2008)

Put them on the BBQ!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

AMDNORTH said:


> Put them on the BBQ!


 
Wow what a great first post...............................NOT


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I thought that too! 

"How to win friends and influence people" :roll:


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

Might as well give you all a wee update 

The 2 little girl's are now in a rehab place (somewhere in England I don't knpw specifics!). They came on brilliantly and my mate did an awesome job of hand rearing them. 

Thanks for all the advice guys!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's excellent news! :2thumb: I'm delighted he got them up and has found somewhere to take them.

We lost one of our grey squirrels last year at our Sanctuary and the other one died a couple of months ago, but we aren't allowed to take in any more! :roll:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

in my woods here in ohio you rarely see a squirrel or chipmonk... they are there... lots of them... but everything's out to eat them...

city squirrels are bold... fearless...

in my woods you have to sit very quietly and wait...

same with cottontails and everything else here...


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