# Roaches



## Snipermike (Sep 16, 2012)

Hi, looking on some info if anybody can help. Are cockroaches bread to the quantities that crickets are as feeders?. What sort of size set up would be needed to make profit from this? And why don't a lot of reptile shops sell roaches as feeders?

Thanks for your time, also feel free to pm me.

Mike


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

Quite simply, there is virtually no money in it now. Unlike crickets, roaches are much easier to keep and breed without much labour, so everyone and their mum has them.

Likewise, reptile shops tend not to sell them, because people will breed them and stop buying crickets and locusts.

Best,
Paul


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## Snipermike (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok, thanks for the information. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for your time.

Mike


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Paul112 said:


> Quite simply, there is virtually no money in it now. Unlike crickets, roaches are much easier to keep and breed without much labour, so everyone and their mum has them.
> 
> Likewise, reptile shops tend not to sell them, because people will breed them and stop buying crickets and locusts.
> 
> ...


What insects do you think are cheapest to buy by weight ?


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

Dragon Farm said:


> What insects do you think are cheapest to buy by weight ?


In what context? 

Best,
Paul


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I mean if a normal UK retail customer with an internet connection wants to buy feeder insects, what would be cheaper to buy ? 

mealworms, crickets, dubia roaches, or red runner roaches etc. Say a keeper needs 100g of insects per day for his collection, which species are more cost effective to buy ?


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Plus if the escape the pet shop has a roach problem for ages.. Lol.. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Roaches are easy to keep and breed. But locusts, mealworms and crickets are more productive. Thats why they are sold in shops more than roaches. 

For example a cricket generally lays around 200 eggs, and grows to adult in around 5 weeks. 

A dubia roach may not be fully grown until three months old and may take another month or more to produce babies. Then we are only talking about 25 young per month. In the same month a cricket egg could hatch and be not far off producing another 200 eggs. 

You need to know what you are doing to breed crickets etc. But the big livefood companies know what they are doing.


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## buddah (Dec 23, 2009)

I personally would rather buy roaches rather than breed them. I've just started to breed red runners recently but it would be much easier for me to just buy a tub of nymphs.


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

Dragon Farm said:


> I mean if a normal UK retail customer with an internet connection wants to buy feeder insects, what would be cheaper to buy ?
> 
> mealworms, crickets, dubia roaches, or red runner roaches etc. Say a keeper needs 100g of insects per day for his collection, which species are more cost effective to buy ?


Either crickets or red runners depending on whether you're buying from a retailer or a private keeper.

Best,
Paul


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I looked on the classifieds here, then compared prices with commercial livefood companies. Crickets for example seem alot cheaper than roaches to buy. Mealworms when bought bulk (say per kilo) are cheaper still. 

I don't think your conspiracy theory that the livefood companies are deliberately selling difficult to breed insects makes sense. Surely one company would break ranks to gain competitive advantage? 

The truth is that if you know what you are doing, and have the correct conditions, conventional livefood species are more productive. But for the home hobbyist roaches are simplier and much easier, and productive enough.


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## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

*Hello Mike*

Hello as im a breeder of livefoods I can tell you.
mealworms are the cheapest by weight in bulk but its not healthy to feed just one type of insect to your pet.

One of the reasons why there not in pet shops is most people don't want to buy cockroaches because they don't want them in there home because they think they will infest there home as they think they are dirty.
The other reason why large livefood companys don't breed roaches is because dubias take about 6 months to reach adulthood & 7-8 months before you get nymphs. The overheads on a large company a week like rent, heating and wages mean they need a quick turn around. For a large company to be able to supply so many at £3 or less a box they would need to buy in £20,000 worth and then £5,000+ worth a month just to get the colonys started and it may be a year before they start selling. The cost of it all would make them sell per tub at £4-£6 for the first few years to make there money back.
I am selling roaches to pet shops (in amounts of locusts tubs) and I still buy in about £1000+ worth of roaches a month to add new colonys, species and get more breeding lines. The setup is not cheap and it will be at least a year before I make my money back.

Crickets,mealworms are the easiest ones to breed but if you want all sizes you need a lot of room. I breed both but crickets are not worth the room needed I have 20 110L tubs full of them. I would need a 60ft by 60ft room to be able to supply every size of cricket every day.
Locusts are a bit harder it takes time to get the adults to lay but when they do there will be loads of nymphs.
waxworms are a easy one but they take months from moth to large waxworm.

If you have a lot of room £10-£30k to set it up and are a experienced breeder it could be a good choice but if your thinking of doing it in a spare room it may cost you .
I hope this helps


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

Snipermike said:


> Hi, looking on some info if anybody can help. Are cockroaches bread to the quantities that crickets are as feeders?. What sort of size set up would be needed to make profit from this? And why don't a lot of reptile shops sell roaches as feeders?
> 
> Thanks for your time, also feel free to pm me.
> 
> Mike


To make profit your need to breed million's and even then your competing with other's as well as home breeder's and the more that are bred the lower the price people wish to pay.. As from a old thread .. It is not even worth the time thinking about.. It's been done and said ... Use search your see.


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

Dragon Farm said:


> I looked on the classifieds here, then compared prices with commercial livefood companies. Crickets for example seem alot cheaper than roaches to buy. Mealworms when bought bulk (say per kilo) are cheaper still.
> 
> I don't think your conspiracy theory that the livefood companies are deliberately selling difficult to breed insects makes sense. Surely one company would break ranks to gain competitive advantage?
> 
> The truth is that if you know what you are doing, and have the correct conditions, conventional livefood species are more productive. But for the home hobbyist roaches are simplier and much easier, and productive enough.


I think you misunderstand me, my conclusion is the same as yours. Many reptiles eat insects, so keepers buy them out of convenience, instead of breeding them at home, or catching them.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just that the people who would buy roaches as a livefood are already comfortable having roaches in their home, and it is very accessible and easy for them to breed their own in a small space. Whilst customers may have also come to terms with locusts, crickets and mealworms in their house, few have the time and space to breed them in sufficient numbers, and prefer to pay a premium to buy them each week from a breeder.

Best,
Paul


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## GECKO MICK (Jun 6, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> Roaches are easy to keep and breed. But locusts, mealworms and crickets are more productive. Thats why they are sold in shops more than roaches.
> 
> For example a cricket generally lays around 200 eggs, and grows to adult in around 5 weeks.
> 
> ...


You'll find that roaches take around 6-7months to reach adulthood.:2thumb:


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

GECKO MICK said:


> You'll find that roaches take around 6-7months to reach adulthood.:2thumb:


I don't have the time or interest to monitor the growth of my roaches. Obviously the growth is dependant on species and temperature. 

For example with Blaptica dubia at 28-32c adult size is attained at 6.5-9.5 weeks. Then another 6 weeks is required for sexual maturity (source Friederich and Volland 'Breeding food animals-live food for vivarium animals.) So sexual maturity could be in as little as around 13 weeks, i.e three months. 

If you are right and the Germans are wrong, then it backs up my assumption, that roaches are not the most productive livefood out there. They are just easy and convenient for hobbyists.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Paul112 said:


> I think you misunderstand me, my conclusion is the same as yours. Many reptiles eat insects, so keepers buy them out of convenience, instead of breeding them at home, or catching them.
> 
> It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just that the people who would buy roaches as a livefood are already comfortable having roaches in their home, and it is very accessible and easy for them to breed their own in a small space. Whilst customers may have also come to terms with locusts, crickets and mealworms in their house, few have the time and space to breed them in sufficient numbers, and prefer to pay a premium to buy them each week from a breeder.
> 
> ...


Sure, but you did suggest that reptile shops were not selling roaches because they wouldn't want to encourage their customers to breed their own livefood. I don't think that is the reason. I am in the trade, and I can't buy roaches at a competitive price to sell on. This is because conventional livefood is more productive. It makes roaches too expensive in comparison. 

Also I think there is a perception that most customers wouldn't want roaches in the house. When I sold dubia for a while, i was very surprized at the reaction of customers. Most of them accepted dubia (not sure I would have got the same reaction with lobsters or red runners).

I had coffee a few months ago with the director of a well known livefood company and we chatted about this. He confirmed this perception in the trade, that customers can't cope with them. I have seen a few livefood companies try to sell roaches, and they often seem to struggle to breed enough to meet the demand from customers. All seems fine at first, but companies are used to species that are much more productive, and they struggle to breed them quickly enough and seem to quickly go short.


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## Snipermike (Sep 16, 2012)

Hi guys,

So what are we saying then, millions would have to be bread to keep a good supply and also they would only sell to people that would have them in there house?

Thanks 

Mike

Ps enjoying this thread


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

I suppose neither of us can speak for the trade as a whole; there is no margin in selling exotic livestock due to the massive overheads, so most stores make their profit on food and dry goods.

Roaches have made a big difference to how people feed their herps, and some stores are hesitant to provide them, a concern which I've heard first hand from business owners.

Best,
Paul


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I think it is too simplistic to say there is no margin on livestock, but I know what youn are getting at. Certainly I would not want red runners or especially lobster roaches anywhere near my store !

By the way Paul your website is ace ! Really interesting.


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