# Mixing Fire Bellied Toads with Fire Bellied Newts.



## SlimJim (Aug 10, 2011)

I just wondered why lots of people say this is a bad thing to do? I have successfully had both species (Bombina orientalis and Cynops orientalis) in the same tank for quite a long time with no problems at all.

There is no stress, no fighting and both have spawned on several occasions and I know this wouldn't happen if either of them were unhappy. I often see the Newts and Toads interacting, they don't mind each others company in the slightest and the Newts seem to enjoy climbing on the Toads and the Toads don't seem to mind at all.

The only time I've seen a problem with the toxins(I'm assuming) is when the filter broke and the Newts climbed out of the water and wouldn't go back in, I'm assuming because the Toads toxins got a bit too strong, after an immediate water change the Newts climbed back into the water and got back on with their usual business.

I also know someone else who keeps them together and has done so for longer than myself and they have had no problems either, so it can't be just a one off.

So I really don't understand why people say not to mix, is it a case of being overly paranoid?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

It *may* be a case of being over-protective, and FBNs *may* be more resistant than most animals- but you've seen yourself that they aren't really compatible, unless your water is intensely filtered- and evidence suggests other frogs are even more susceptible. So why even try?


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## SlimJim (Aug 10, 2011)

I'd hardly say 'intensely filtered', it's a very small waterfall filter and I have no idea how long it was off, the water quality could have been too much for them when it stopped working, even if they were on their own.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I keep FBTs, and I've kept FBNs; in both cases I don't filter at all, as they are not fond of moving water on the whole. So for them it *is* intense! :lol2:
Both species flourish with regular partial water changes, so I doubt water quality was the issue.

If that system works for you, that's fine- the point of the forum is to share our differing experiences- but it's not one I'd advise.


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

my concern comes from the toads over enthusiastic feeding response. they literally pounce on anything that moves. or at least my lot do. even after having a good fill of crickets and locusts they still try their luck for more. ive "heard" of peoples newts loosing limbs to the toads appetite.
have you not seen this with yours?


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## SlimJim (Aug 10, 2011)

trogdorable said:


> my concern comes from the toads over enthusiastic feeding response. they literally pounce on anything that moves. or at least my lot do. even after having a good fill of crickets and locusts they still try their luck for more. ive "heard" of peoples newts loosing limbs to the toads appetite.
> have you not seen this with yours?


I feed them both at the same time, the newts eat sinking food at the bottom of the tank where as the frogs eat on land or on the surface of the water so they rarely interact with each other at feeding time.


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

SlimJim said:


> I feed them both at the same time, the newts eat sinking food at the bottom of the tank where as the frogs eat on land or on the surface of the water so they rarely interact with each other at feeding time.


im not really talking about a "feeding time". im talking about the newts generally just moving around, and the frogs seeing this movement and pouncing. my toads can be fed to the brim of exploding but will still tag on to any movement around them at any time during the day and try to get another meal.

they also appear to be quite stupid at distinguishing between what is prey, and what is another frog or a hand.


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## Python_Bloke (Aug 19, 2010)

I've kept fire bellied toad and newts, as well as yellow bellied toads in the same tank for about 5 years.
I dont have a water filter, and I dont change the water very often at all (every couple of months at most, basically when the water is absolutely gross) and I've had no problems whatsoever thus far.
I dont observe any interaction between toads and newts, outside of toads occasionally standing on a newt to grab food on the surface of the water. 
The only aggressive behaviour I have observed is between the two newts, who fight whenever they both go after the same prey item


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Python_Bloke said:


> I've kept fire bellied toad and newts, as well as yellow bellied toads in the same tank for about 5 years.
> I dont have a water filter, and I dont change the water very often at all (every couple of months at most, basically when the water is absolutely gross) and I've had no problems whatsoever thus far.
> I dont observe any interaction between toads and newts, outside of toads occasionally standing on a newt to grab food on the surface of the water.
> The only aggressive behaviour I have observed is between the two newts, who fight whenever they both go after the same prey item


As I said above, it is possible that FBNs are more resistant than other 'phibs, given that you and the OP have roughly similar experiences. It still wouldn't be my method of choice, though.
EDIT: Oh, and while I think about it, although different Bombina species tolerate each other fine, they also hybridise readily, which I'm also not keen on.


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## Python_Bloke (Aug 19, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> As I said above, it is possible that FBNs are more resistant than other 'phibs, given that you and the OP have roughly similar experiences. It still wouldn't be my method of choice, though.


I dont think this species of newt is any more resistant to toxins than any other. 
There's a common misconception that fire bellied toads produce their own toxins. In the wild, the toxins build up in the food chain, starting with plants, which are eaten by insects, which are in turn eaten by the toads.

Unless you specifically feed your crickets the correct plants to give the toad these toxins, you're safe


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Python_Bloke said:


> I dont think this species of newt is any more resistant to toxins than any other.
> There's a common misconception that fire bellied toads produce their own toxins. In the wild, the toxins build up in the food chain, starting with plants, which are eaten by insects, which are in turn eaten by the toads.
> 
> Unless you specifically feed your crickets the correct plants to give the toad these toxins, you're safe


 Utterly wrong, I'm afraid- you may be confusing them with dart frogs. Unlike darts, FBTs produce their own toxins, as do bufonoid toads and others.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Utterly wrong, I'm afraid- you may be confusing them with dart frogs. Unlike darts, FBTs produce their own toxins, as do bufonoid toads and others.


As Ron said FBTs definitely do produce their own toxins. I have experienced this for myself when stupidly siphoning water from a FBT enclosure I accidently swallowed some of the water which had some very interesting side effects. 

In addition, from both the two 'mixers' experiences above and physical characteristics, it would be safe to presume that FBNs are more resilient to toxins than other newt species. They don't just have a red underside for the kicks and giggles.


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

UrolithicTitan said:


> As Ron said FBTs definitely do produce their own toxins. I have experienced this for myself when stupidly siphoning water from a FBT enclosure I accidently swallowed some of the water which had some very interesting side effects.
> 
> In addition, from both the two 'mixers' experiences above and physical characteristics, it would be safe to presume that FBNs are more resilient to toxins than other newt species. They don't just have a red underside for the kicks and giggles.


you accidently swallowed the water ? :roll2::lol2:

i want to hear how that happened!


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

trogdorable said:


> you accidently swallowed the water ? :roll2::lol2:
> 
> i want to hear how that happened!


Doing the good old water transfer method of sucking through a hose to get the water to flow. Definitely not one of my best moments. And I damn sure won't be doing it sgsin to test out FBNs.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

A trick I used with my FBT tadpoles and young toadlets was to have a jug of *clean* water to the side- suck that up, block the ends and transfer the top end of the hose to the tank.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> A trick I used with my FBT tadpoles and young toadlets was to have a jug of *clean* water to the side- suck that up, block the ends and transfer the top end of the hose to the tank.


Thanks for that. I'll keep ot for future reference.:2thumb:


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

UrolithicTitan said:


> Thanks for that. I'll keep ot for future reference.:2thumb:


When emptying the turtle tanks - thumb on one end of the hose and fill it up under the tap putting your thumb on the other end when it if full of water. Put one end in the tank, release thumb and it will start emptying from the other end into your bucket.

Hope that is clear :lol2:


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

UrolithicTitan said:


> As Ron said FBTs definitely do produce their own toxins. I have experienced this for myself when stupidly siphoning water from a FBT enclosure I accidently swallowed some of the water which had some very interesting side effects.
> 
> In addition, from both the two 'mixers' experiences above and physical characteristics, it would be safe to presume that FBNs are more resilient to toxins than other newt species. They don't just have a red underside for the kicks and giggles.


What side effects did you experience?




Stephen P said:


> When emptying the turtle tanks - thumb on one end of the hose and fill it up under the tap putting your thumb on the other end when it if full of water. Put one end in the tank, release thumb and it will start emptying from the other end into your bucket.
> 
> Hope that is clear :lol2:


I used to do this when I kept fish, except I didn't fill the hose using the tap. If you hold one thumb over one end of the hose and hold the hose under the water it will fill itself up, even less effort.


I lost 2 of my firebellied toads recently so it did enter my head to try my remaining toad in with my newt :hmm:still having a think on that. When I first got my firebellied newts I kept them in the same tank as 3 dwarf clawed frogs for about 6 years. There was the odd time when a newt would temporaily grab a frog by the leg but they let go almost straight away as if they'd realised the frog wasn't food (I'm not promoting this idea by the way, just saying it's something I have done). I didn't get anymore dwarf clawed frogs after they died, just kept them seperate. I have seen some pics of various types of frog and newt in each other mouths head first :gasp:


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

OP when you say you've had them together for quite some time, how long roughly? Weeks, months, years? Do you have any pics of their setup?


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