# Heating for a leo



## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Ok I have a vivexoticLX36 vivarium in which I have setup last night and let the heat mat run

The heat mat firstly is connected to a thermostat so no worries there, really im just looking to know whether or not my temperatures will be ok 

the heat mat im using is 11"x11" so it covers it width wise and ive it set off a bit from the very end so it technically covers 1/3rd of the viv, as the viv is 91cm long and the mat is 28cm long

- Hot end temperature is no less than 32/33C (On top of the substrate)
- however just a few inches off the heat mat and it falls to 21C
-The very far end of the cool end is 21C

My house is generally considered cold I would say

The reptile shop said a light would be an option to help keep the ambient(air temperature right?) at a more reasonable temperature and may also heat the substrate, is that right? or would it be needed

Just wondering as I havent got the leopard gecko yet but want it perfect before it comes!

anything you need to know please ask and ill find out


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

The air temperature is no issue at all - leopard geckos absorb heat through their bellies so the floor temp is the only real importance here.
There's no need for a bulb if the heat mat can get up to temp on the hot end : victory:


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## fizavi (Apr 6, 2010)

if your struggling to get the temps you need then i'd try a 40w red bulb above the 'hot ' end of the tank. if you got a thermostat then you don't need to worry about overheating. the red bulb means you could keep it on during the night as well without disrupting then.


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah and you reckon then with a red bulb place 1/3rd across from the hot end (where I was told to put it) should act as heating the ground also? also are you saying then if it gets the ground too warm on the hot side the mat will then turn off? dont want a cooked gecko is all 

was worried just that the cold end temperature was too cold for it at 19, as this is basically the temperature for the other 2/3rds of the tank

Also ive placed my moist hide on the very edge of the cool end, this ok? also my hide is place just off hot end to let him get a nice heat without too warm or old, is this ok?

sorry for all the questions just worrying :blush:


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

I really wouldn't worry about the lamps, people do use them, but remember that deserts where the geckos come from ain't extremely hot during the night time.

In terms of temps, I can only repeat what Ophexis has said, that the ground temps are important here. The hot end should be, in my oppinion, 88'F - 92'F. This is easy enough to achieve with a thermostate and thermometer. 
The cool end can be what ever temps if needs to be, I don't really worry as I know my Gecko will move between the two when he's to warm or cooled down enough, which is what they would usually do.

The moist hide is fine in the cooler end, if its in the warm end it gets dry to quickly 

Don't ever worry about asking questions, if you don't ask you won't ever know.


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## caine7 (Jan 21, 2007)

Greecko said:


> Yeah and you reckon then with a red bulb place 1/3rd across from the hot end (where I was told to put it) should act as heating the ground also? also are you saying then if it gets the ground too warm on the hot side the mat will then turn off? dont want a cooked gecko is all
> 
> was worried just that the cold end temperature was too cold for it at 19, as this is basically the temperature for the other 2/3rds of the tank
> 
> ...


when the heat mat warms up to the temp u set it to it will turn off! i have a hide in the warm end and the cold end so the gecko can go whenever


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

haha my motto in life, better asking stupid questions to know than look stupid not knowing

Ive just moved hot end hide over more to the "hot" end and the floor temperature is reading 24/25C, would that be sufficient for a warm hide?its just one of those exo terra caves that i see in most vivs

i just moved the thermometer outside it and its going back up to the 30 mark

What would be keeping lower in the hide? its not moving anywhere in terms if away from the heat

Yeah was aware of keeping the moist hide on the cool end not to dry out, was just concerned incase it would be too cold, but a bit relieved to see they do switch over, wasnt sure whether they would during the day incase they would be afraid to

Its all a learning curve


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

caine7 said:


> when the heat mat warms up to the temp u set it to it will turn off! i have a hide in the warm end and the cold end so the gecko can go whenever


Yeah my moist hide is one of those climb in rocks for the gecko, im acting it as a cool end hide also, may just moisten it when its shedding, or would it be wise to always keep it moist?


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

Greecko said:


> haha my motto in life, better asking stupid questions to know than look stupid not knowing
> 
> Ive just moved hot end hide over more to the "hot" end and the floor temperature is reading 24/25C, would that be sufficient for a warm hide?its just one of those exo terra caves that i see in most vivs
> 
> ...


I'd try and get the temps to 31'C or 88'F at the hot end, which is where I take the thermostate / thermometer readers are?
If you set the thermostate to that temp then it'll sort it self out, but a good idea is to monitor it.


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

Greecko said:


> Yeah my moist hide is one of those climb in rocks for the gecko, im acting it as a cool end hide also, may just moisten it when its shedding, or would it be wise to always keep it moist?


I use a cricket tub with damp kitchen towl, always does the job.


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## caine7 (Jan 21, 2007)

Greecko said:


> Yeah my moist hide is one of those climb in rocks for the gecko, im acting it as a cool end hide also, may just moisten it when its shedding, or would it be wise to always keep it moist?


well i keep mines moist all the time cause you never no when there going to shed there skins you could miss it and if its always moist it will help them get all the skin around there toes which i have had to help them with b4:lol2:


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah I have the thermosta prove set down flat on the mat and the thermometer the same, basically beside eachother right where the heats at its best, and it was ready 32/33C, seems the thermostat set flat it reads it better, first time id seen it turn the heat off where id set it, so handy rearranging trying things

done a quick check on the cool hide with it bear and its at 19C so maybe the moss would help regulate it a bit better, isnt too cold sure?

Would you recommend me setting the hide DIRECTLY on top of the heat mat then? to maxmise the heat inside it when the gecko sleeps? or is the 25C alright? logically id go for right on the heat mat and the gecko can always move, right?


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

Temps are spot on  just keep an eye on them now and tweek the thermostate if needed.

How big is the tank?
I'd have one in the warm end, positioned where best for the gecko. But make sure that there is sufficient substrate on top of the heat mat so that the gecko won't get burn't.


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Its 91cm long (3foot) and 37cm deep, plenty of space so it should for the little guy

Yeah theres plenty of sub on top for the guy and he wont be able to reach mat, nor should he need to try

The hide is placed still where the inside temperature of it is still 25C, you reckon its alright there, or maybe a touch more to the mat

Also a problem that may arise is the amount of natural light coming itno my room, or lack of it, he wont be getting too much but basically my window os big enough, just that it faces a brick wall about a metre away  so even during the day theres barely much light

I work from very early morning to late in the evenings and leaving the light on all day may not go down wellm with my housemates, especially as sometimes i work very long shifts where i wouldnt have the chance to turn my rooms light on and off, so would no doubt stress him with the light left on constantly

are there any lights in the market that would automatically switch on and off with a timer, and be manually controlled, heard of clamp lights, these any good? any light that works on a timer would be great


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

I honestly wouldn't worry about to much light, they are nocternal animals and come out during the evenings. The room Oz is in has light coming in but his hides give him the darkness he craves for sleeping.

Thats a big tank btw, how bigs your Gecko?
If he/she is under 5 inches I'd look to maybe make it smaller by blocking off part of the tank.
Additionally you can add more hides and place them in different angels.


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## fizavi (Apr 6, 2010)

just get yourself a lamp hlder kit you can buy al the parts cheap in winkinsons for about £3 including cable, bulb holder and plug (bear in mind you would need a bit of electrical knowledge) or you can buy the sets on ebay. then get yourself a 24 hour timer again from wilkos for a couple of quid, and a pack of low wattage bulbs. plug the timer into the setup and set to the hours you want it on and off. as i said if you want it on at night go for a red bulb or if it's just the day go with a low wattage bulb.


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks guys!

Ha I havent even got the gecko yet  and from the talks of him it will only be roughly 3 months old, so a juvenile, why would it need to be smaller? just urious if theres benefits to it is all

Ill definitely be looking into the lighting as really there is zero difference in my room between day and night, so id presume thatd be bad for it not getting a good idea of day and night, pus would help keep it a bit warmer during the colder months


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Greecko said:


> Yeah theres plenty of sub on top for the guy and he wont be able to reach mat, nor should he need to try
> 
> The hide is placed still where the inside temperature of it is still 25C, you reckon its alright there, or maybe a touch more to the mat


a lot of heatmat manufacturers recommend that the substrate over a heatmat is not more then 1cm deep to prevent problems with the heatmat ~ too deep a substrate can cause faulty hot-spots and/or failure of the heatmat.... providing the heatmat is connected to a thermostat set at the correct temperature range (88*f-92*f) the leo will not burn itself ~ I use lino, kitchen paper, thin tiles and even washable wall-paper.
With regards to placing the hides I place one hide directly ontop of the heatmat with another at the cool end and the moist-hide placed in the middle


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks for that! 

Yeah I have now placed my hot hide on the heat mat and will move my moist/cool hide more in the middle to maybe get a little bettr heat rather than two extremes just

Ive just got like a lino thing down and rocks and stuff built around for him to scurry between and run across with a few bits of logs for it to scurry around too, way I see it best having plenty to explore than a boring bear viv, make hunting more interesting

Ok slightly new questions and im aware theres a place for it, but do crickets, in particular the small ones make alot of noise or smell? just curious to organise somewhere to keep them, was thinking of using mealworms as a constant supply with crickets whenever im supervising to make sure their all eaten and the little guys actually eating ok


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Greecko said:


> Ok slightly new questions and im aware theres a place for it, but do crickets, in particular the small ones make alot of noise or smell? just curious to organise somewhere to keep them, was thinking of using mealworms as a constant supply with crickets whenever im supervising to make sure their all eaten and the little guys actually eating ok


Young crickets won't make noise - only when they are mature do they make noise (and what an irritating thing it is too! :devil: ) They do smell, it has to be said, but less so if you clean them out regularly. Master tweezers - that's all I can say about catching them!
As for the constant supply of mealworms, good idea, a lot of keepers do that - just make sure they are properly gut loaded and dusted and you can't go far wrong! : victory:


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## jlbyron2000 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Tank Size*

Wow, A 3ft tank is huge for a juvenile Leo...

My tank is 18x18x18 for my little guy (Well not so little he weights 96g!)

I have 3 hides in there...Never used the canopy that came with it (exo terra)...Ended up not using half stuff i got with it actually:blush:

I bought him fancy exo terra hides and he sits all day in a tuppleware box i made myself with kitchen towel in! I barely see him. He;s kinda a fat lazy git! 

In the beginning i asked a hundred questions...wanted everything perfect...but its quite easy really. I panicked the first week when he ate nothing at all! And even next couple weeks only ate once a week! 

He's fine now...took some settling in..but i rarely see him...only when i get him out myself ..but he's very tame!

For the 3ft tank maybe partition it down the middle?? 2 leos? ? Or get a beardie#???:2thumb: LOL!

Hope your happy with the little guy! They are very sweet!

xx


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

jlbyron2000 said:


> For the 3ft tank maybe partition it down the middle?? 2 leos? ? Or get a beardie#???:2thumb: LOL!
> xx


A juvenile should do fine in a 3ft vivarium without it being partitioned, providing there are enough hides. However partitioning is an option if the animal is having difficulty feeding or appears distressed by the space.
2 leopard geckos is not a good idea. The OP has not kept leopard geckos before if I remember rightly and so spotting signs of dominance may be difficult for them - which could result in stressed, ill leos, and money spent on another set-up. Not to mention even with keepers with more experience they shouldn't be kept together due to the risk of them falling out/breeding. It is far safer to have 1 leo per vivarium.
And 3ft is debatable for a beardie. A _small_ female is the only thing that could fit in there as the minimum space for a beardie is 8 square feet.

Besides, Greecko is set on a leo! : victory:


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## jlbyron2000 (Sep 20, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> 2 leopard geckos is not a good idea. The OP has not kept leopard geckos before if I remember rightly and so spotting signs of dominance may be difficult for them - which could result in stressed, ill leos, and money spent on another set-up. Not to mention even with keepers with more experience they shouldn't be kept together due to the risk of them falling out/breeding. It is far safer to have 1 leo per vivarium.
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt mean put 2 together...I meant partition it..make it 2 vivs and put one in each viv :2thumb:


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## Mozart (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd just make sure I have plenty of hides with that nice amount of space, may be add some deco for climbing / exploring and a juvi will grow healthy and happy.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

jlbyron2000 said:


> I didnt mean put 2 together...I meant partition it..make it 2 vivs and put one in each viv :2thumb:


Ahh, thank you for clarifying. :2thumb:


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks for the opinion and replies guys making me feel more at ease, im a big perfectionist and drives me mad having things half done

as for hides I have a crawl in cave hide which would be grand for a juvenile and an adult, may fill it with more moss just so the little guy isnt lost in it  and the hide in the warm end is plenty big for it too, though may get a smaller one as its good for an adult one so may be too big just

3ft doesnt seem awfully big, well doesnt to me and id rather it used to its environment now so it grows into it knowing its way round 

as for feeding itll be done with my supervision to make sure its eating and nothings left, Thats why I only want one so it can get all my attention and all the things it needs 

also i may have went mad on its viv, took time to get logs and rocks and placed them like a rocky outcrops all over, with places to climb and scurry around (nothing built tall though, avoid any falls and be more natural) but no holes for crickets to hide 

Ill no doubt get addicted to them but for now only one


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Another question 

Well just considering the fact my room is damn cold and the fact the vivs ground temp aint so hot, apart from the mat

I have a 60w red lamp heater bulb, red as they cant see it so shouldnt stress him having it on during the day, also i can get quite a good dusk to dawn switch(turns it off after set mount of hours) friend works in a hardware store so dirt cheap for a good one 

would i be wise or am i safe enough with what I got, had just planned on keeping it on during the day for the wee fella, as the rep shop guy said that they would be fine too under the heat, obviously pakistan etc is a little hotter than 32c, and the lamp wont (yet to be tested) be pushing it much above this

what do yous reckon? plus i like to futer at these things  would be setting the lamp at the opposite end of the mat and then keeping the mat at a lower constant temp from now on as the cool end, say around 21, 2c higher than normal


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

NO NO NO. All sources of heat need to be at the same side in a vivarium unless it is huge. This creates a temperature gradient so that your Leo can regulate it's internal temperature.

Perhaps it would help you to understand how they would behave in the wild - so that you can try to replicate that as best as possible. You are right that in their natural habitat it gets MUCH hotter than 32C during the day. However, during this time they would find deep dark crevices in the rocks to hide out of the heat. They cannot do that in a vivarium if the whole viv gets too hot. The temperature in part of the viv can certainly go higher than 32C (although there is no need for it to) as long as they have enough hides so that the coolest one is no higher than mid 20sC - i.e. they can get out of any excessive heat. Not easy to do in a 3 foot viv.
In the evening, in the wild, they would emerge to lie and "bask" on rocks that have been heated by the sun during the day. In a viv they will use the heatmat to do this - hence why most keepers leave the mats on 24/7. How would your Leo do this if the mat is only at 21C and the heatlamp is off? I know you have said you would use a red lamp but many keepers are unconvinced that this is invisible to them.

You have said your house gets cold at night so what I would suggest to you is:

Have your thermostatted heatmat on one half of the viv - set so that the floor temperature is 31-33C. Have a viewing light if you wish but make it a low wattage one so that it does not raise the temps too much and place it at the warm side of the viv.
For night if your house temps drop below about 18F (remember the air temp at night in Pakistan / Afghanistan will also drop low - the rocks (heatmat) supply their warmth) than get a ceramic bulb (on a separate thermostat) and have this set to raise the ambient temps to about 23C.

I hope this helps.


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah the same things ran through my mind too about when its off how long the heat on the ground will actually hold, and odds are itll only heat the air more than anything

i may however set it at a low energy bulb during the day as my room gets little to no light, im facing right into a 3 story house within touching distance  just a normal low watt bulb would be fine? dont want it too bright to put the little guy totally off moving around


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Yup - an ordinary low watt white light during the day is fine for setting day / night cycles and viewing. A lot of ppl use LEDs - especially in the summer - as they give off no heat and are very cheap to run.


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## Chrisuk33 (Oct 10, 2010)

Greecko said:


> Ok I have a vivexoticLX36 vivarium in which I have setup last night and let the heat mat run
> 
> The heat mat firstly is connected to a thermostat so no worries there, really im just looking to know whether or not my temperatures will be ok
> 
> ...


 
well i have 1 leo in a 2ft wooden viv, the heat is a heatmat of 90f (32f)
as a flooring i use padded linolium, the sensor to the thermostat and thermomiter is on the surface of the linolium afixed and in contact where the middle of the heatmat would be, to ebsure the correct heat is comming though.

so far as the heat id say you got it right at 32c
im a little concerned that your house is cold but... hopefully the heatmats heat enclosed in the viv will give enough off as the leos need belly heat the most anyway


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

what kind of wiring does an led need that you can buy handy, havent wired one since TD in school, easy done but getting the stuff for it just 

@chris, yeh dont like the fact it isnt so hot either but im a student renting so little choice in the matter, the temps however aint bad as i left my mat off the weekend (no leo yet obv) and it dropped to 13c, how the cool end is 20c and the hot end 32.5 lucky enough so just nice, and thats the whole mat too, no hot spots thankfully

ambient temp really has no great affect surely? night wouldnt have a factor and during the day a wee bulb would help lift it


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## Chrisuk33 (Oct 10, 2010)

Greecko said:


> what kind of wiring does an led need that you can buy handy, havent wired one since TD in school, easy done but getting the stuff for it just
> 
> @chris, yeh dont like the fact it isnt so hot either but im a student renting so little choice in the matter, the temps however aint bad as i left my mat off the weekend (no leo yet obv) and it dropped to 13c, how the cool end is 20c and the hot end 32.5 lucky enough so just nice, and thats the whole mat too, no hot spots thankfully
> 
> ambient temp really has no great affect surely? night wouldnt have a factor and during the day a wee bulb would help lift it


 
well granted, 99% of the temp is though the belly but the ambient cant be a freezer eather lol, i dont think it will be cos the ambient temp kinda builds up inside wooden vivs, im sure its all fine


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I agree with chris. Wooden vivs are much better at maintaining heat. Although it is not good to let the ambient temps get down to 13C the temp in the viv will build to some extent. Chris's set up sounds good - this is what I do myself - but my rep room has an ambient temp of 70F at night. If your night temps are dropping very low then, as I have already said, you may need a ceramic lamp to raise them.
I'm sorry I don't know much about wiring LEDs - I don't use them as my rep room has good natural light. I believe you can buy battery run ones from the pound shop tho.


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## Chrisuk33 (Oct 10, 2010)

jools said:


> I agree with chris. Wooden vivs are much better at maintaining heat. Although it is not good to let the ambient temps get down to 13C the temp in the viv will build to some extent. Chris's set up sounds good - this is what I do myself - but my rep room has an ambient temp of 70F at night. If your night temps are dropping very low then, as I have already said, you may need a ceramic lamp to raise them.
> I'm sorry I don't know much about wiring LEDs - I don't use them as my rep room has good natural light. I believe you can buy battery run ones from the pound shop tho.


yeah if the ambient gets that cold like jools said use a ceramic to heat ambiently although if you use 2 heat sorces you need 2 thermostats and 2 thermomiters because 1 heat set up will be in contact with the heatmat and of course the other will need to control ambient to 70f (aprox room temps)

orrrrr if your rooms that cold, buy a cheap mini heater for your room to bring it up to 70F normal room temps, its a thought :lol2:


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

aye that was just wih the mat off, itll be on onced i get word of some geckos in stock, seems they are very hard to get hold of in NI for rep shops anyway, never see any advertised either 

may go with a timer set light and set it for the day just some natural light


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## Chrisuk33 (Oct 10, 2010)

Greecko said:


> aye that was just wih the mat off, itll be on onced i get word of some geckos in stock, seems they are very hard to get hold of in NI for rep shops anyway, never see any advertised either
> 
> may go with a timer set light and set it for the day just some natural light


 most people these days buy geckos from breeders, try your local clasifieds


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

yup I have, reptiles arent very popular over here in general, leopard geckos i know for a fact are harder to find too, but patience as theyll be in within 4 weeks


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Woohoo finally got myself a lovely leo, she is an adult and a tangerine morph, very pretty

however ive switched the lights out there and the rooms pitch black, checked on her with a red bulb a few times and shes just sitting under a rock has been for over an hour and shes facing away from me so hard to see what shes up to if shes asleep, 

is a pitch black room ok or it need a little light?


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## Chrisuk33 (Oct 10, 2010)

Greecko said:


> Woohoo finally got myself a lovely leo, she is an adult and a tangerine morph, very pretty
> 
> however ive switched the lights out there and the rooms pitch black, checked on her with a red bulb a few times and shes just sitting under a rock has been for over an hour and shes facing away from me so hard to see what shes up to if shes asleep,
> 
> is a pitch black room ok or it need a little light?


 lol
room doesnt have to be pitch black, yes its nocturnal but if you have it in a wooden vivarium and 2 hides , as long as theres not a real bright light on it, im sure it will be fine


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Greecko said:


> Woohoo finally got myself a lovely leo, she is an adult and a tangerine morph, very pretty
> 
> however ive switched the lights out there and the rooms pitch black, checked on her with a red bulb a few times and shes just sitting under a rock has been for over an hour and shes facing away from me so hard to see what shes up to if shes asleep,
> 
> is a pitch black room ok or it need a little light?


She has only just arrived. She will be petrified for a while. This is why she is hiding away and not moving. Give it a few days she should get more confident all the time - especially if you give her as much peace as possible, with no handling yet. She probably won't eat to start with either - quite normal. 
Leos are crepuscular rather than nocturnal. They will often sleep in the dead of night and be more active at dawn and dusk. Pitch black is fine for night.

Congratulations BTW!


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## Greecko (Jan 15, 2011)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh didnt know that, nor had I heard of the word  thanks though for that makes me feel more at ease as I expected her to be up, but ill definitely be leaving her totally alone when at all possible, thanks people!


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