# hets, visuals, etc....statistics help



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

hey all i am having an argument with my OH, he has been to uni and seems to think he knows it all even though i went to the same uni at the same time. smarmy sod. he thinks that 66% hets are impossible.

ANYWAY, if i breed a visual ( say albino) to a visual albino, the babies would all be visual?? correct??

if i bred a visual to a 100% het they would be????? WHAT?

and if i bred a 100% het to a normal they would be??? WHAT?

and if i had co-dom ( that has a super form) say a pastel, if i bred a pastel to a pastel, what % can i expect in the clutch?
and if i bred a pastel to a normal, what can i expect?

i KNOW this but i am asking you lot so i can prove that i am way more knowledgable than he is. any help, much appreciated. and if i have missed naything, please feel free to add it.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fantapants said:


> hey all i am having an argument with my OH, he has been to uni and seems to think he knows it all even though i went to the same uni at the same time. smarmy sod. he thinks that 66% hets are impossible.
> 
> ANYWAY, if i breed a visual ( say albino) to a visual albino, the babies would all be visual?? correct??
> 
> ...


To your first question 66% come from HET X HET breedings.This may be some help to you.Clink link Ark Reptiles - SIMPLE GENETICS .

Pastel is (DOMINANT) you can't get super form.

Normal X Pastel(1C) = .

50%Normal.
50%Pastel(1C).
----
Normal X Pastel(2C) = .

100%Pastel(1C).
----
----
Mack snow's are Co-dominant so.

Snow X Snow = .

25%Normal.
50%Snow.
25%Super snow.


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

fantapants said:


> hey all i am having an argument with my OH, he has been to uni and seems to think he knows it all even though i went to the same uni at the same time. smarmy sod. he thinks that 66% hets are impossible.
> 
> ANYWAY, if i breed a visual ( say albino) to a visual albino, the babies would all be visual?? correct??
> 
> ...


gazz has answered the breeding questions but in regards to the 66% het your friend is actually right(I know your going to hate me for saying that). In snakes they show a probability not a true het reading as you only have one pair of genes to control the albino so the only offspring that can exist is either AA = Normal, Aa = Het Albino, aa = Albino (Just dealing with basics here not some of the more complex hets). The 66% bit comes for the non visual hatchlings usually from a het to het breeding, it means you have a 2 out of 3 chance of picking a het (Aa)and a 1 out of 3 chance of picking a normal (AA). So not a guarantee of being het like a visual to normal breeding which guarantees all hatchlings are het. So a hatchling is either a het or its not, it cant be only a bit het. Hope that makes sense it is late.

Edited to say this is my understanding if I havent explained it right peeps dont shout at me.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

oakelm said:


> gazz has answered the breeding questions but in regards to the 66% het your friend is actually right(I know your going to hate me for saying that).


It's her other half and he think that 66% are impossible.So She is right and he is wrong.



> hey all i am having an argument with my OH, he has been to uni and seems to think he knows it all even though i went to the same uni at the same time. smarmy sod. he thinks that 66% hets are impossible.


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Ooops :blush:. I read just the bits that were questions again and not the story too.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

i know that the 66% probabililty is just that, a probablility. i explained that it needs to go on to be proven that its either 100% or 0% but he wasnt having any of it. i hate it when we get into something like this and he flat out states i am wrong . i have been lying in bed running through it in my head, . GAH!

and is a super pastel not a super form of pastel where its in effect got a double dose of the same gene? or is it different for pastels to say.......yellowbellys where the super is ivory? i undertsand that statistics behind all this i just have a very bad way of expressing myself when i get in a rat with him.


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes a Super Pastel is the Super (or Homozygous) form of Pastel.

Regarding the 66% ph.

i.e. 

het Albino x het Albino:

25% Albino

25% Normal
50% Het Albino


So 75% will look normal, of those, 1/3 are normal, 2/3 (66%) are het Albino.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

> Normal X Pastel(1C) = .
> 
> 50%Normal.
> 50%Pastel(1C).
> ...


Hi i take back what i wrote hear above.As it is relivent to leo's that pastel is DOMINANT.However i just realized that you was most likly on about pastel royal python where pastel is CO-DOMINANT.Sorry:blush:.

Royal python (Pastel)

Pastel X Pastel = .

25%Normal.
50%Pastel
25%Super pastel.
----
----
Pastel X Normal = .

50%Normal.
50%Pastel.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

fantapants said:


> he thinks that 66% hets are impossible.


I was at uni, too, and I worked in the uni genetics lab for several years.

Impossible is a strong word. If there is at least one exception, the thing is not impossible.

The other posters gave you the straight dope on 66% probability hets. But there is a way to get 66% hets without the probability. This to have a mutant gene which is lethal when homozygous. 

For example, the dominant yellow mutant in the house mouse is lethal when a mouse embryo has two copies of the mutant. The mouse dies before it is born. So the live mice from a dominant yellow X dominant yellow mating are either dominant yellow mice (which are hets) or homozygous normal mice. Over time, the proportions average out to approximately 2/3 dominant yellows and 1/3 normals.

Dominant yellow is not unique. Crested in canaries and in zebra finches works the same way. There are others, too.


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## NaturalSelecta! (Apr 13, 2008)

66% het in breeder terms is used to describe visual normals from a litter/clutch produced by a het x het cross.

Say you get the 4 statistically perfect offspring from two albino hets: One visual albino, two albino hets and one normal. 
There's no need to describe the albino as "100% homozygous" because it's kind of obvious, we can see it's albino! So we're left with three normal looking offspring. The probability of any of those three being one of the hets is 2/3 or 66%.

This is different to the chances of producing het offspring from a het x het cross in the first place as this has a probablity of 50%.

As a previous poster said, a lethal homozygous effectivly has the same effect as a visually distonct homozygous morph, it removes itself from the problem by being immediatly identifiable i.e. albino or dead.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Forgive me if im wrong but if i understand correctly it means the number of young in a clutch likely to be a het for a perticular morph? 

So its not that a perticular animal is a 66% het it has a 66% chance of being a het? 

Hets have always confused me :lol2:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> So its not that a perticular animal is a 66% het it has a 66% chance of being a het?


This is correct. It should be 66% chance of being het rather than just 66% het. 

Each egg is the equivalent of the roll of a die. If you have a four-sided die, with numbers 1-4, then roll that. If you have a 6-sided die, with numbers 1-6, that will work, too. For a het X het mating, 
1 = two mutant genes (homozygous for the mutant)
2 = one mutant gene and one normal gene (heterozygous)
3 = one mutant gene and one normal gene (heterozygous)
4 = two normal genes (homozygous normal)
5 = does not count, roll again
6 = does not count, roll again


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