# Could this be a way to reduce DWAL fees?



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Having kept herps for donkeys years, I have been considering applying for a DWA. One thing which puts me off is the extortionate fees charged by councils.
I fully accept that the cost of a vets visit needs to be met, as does the cost of a council inspector visiting. Given that a visit is, I am guessing, little more than an hour, how can councils charge, again at a guess, nationally an average of say £400 to issue a licence, when the inspector is probably earining around £10 an hour, and the licence costs pennies to print off from a computer and post to the applicant!
My thought is this - everything nowadays has to be compiant with the Human Rights Act, which includes one specific article that everyone has the right to freedom of private life. Another essential element is that everything carried out by any legal body must be necesary and proportionate.
Now, I am sure we all agree that DWA is necessary, BUT are the charges proportionate? I would suggest not.

I am not looking to start a huge debate, just wondered what anyone else thinks on this?


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Personally, if applying for a DWA, imo... there should be training courses... or like florida, where you have to work with venomous for so many hours... like 400 i think 

I think its ridiculous how come councils charge way over the top, and others dont


It just shows which councils are money grabbers


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I completely agree with the need for a proper, regulated training course. There is always talk of mentors, and yes I agree many "mentors" are experienced handlers, however, if they have bad habits these will be passed on.
There should be a nationally accepted course, for example run through zoos with venomous snakes with a recognised certificate at the end of the course, or for current keepers to go on a trainers course to allow them to teach new keepers, and I agree that the cost should be met by the new keeper. 
I feel that the October 07 review of the DWA missed a trick on this!
I also fail to see how the cost of a piece of paper can vary from as little as £75 to over £2k a year depending on where you live.


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

perhaps the fees are there to make sure you really do want to look after them.
youll pay it if you want them.
it stops random people getting hold of dangerous wild animals.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree to an extent, but I disagree with the massive difference in price. This is why, in my opinion, it would be better to go down the line of a nationally accepted certificate of competence rather than a range of costs as I mentioned before.


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

some areas are wealthyer than other's.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

And that has what to do with it?????????

I live in an area with some of the most deprived estates in the UK, in fact one was placed in the top 5 most deprived estates in the UK, yet for me to get a DWA would cost £500. So I am sorry, but your argument holds no water!


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

ian14 said:


> And that has what to do with it?????????


 
the fee's are fine to me.
so you must be from a poorer area to think there too much.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

boidae said:


> the fee's are fine to me.
> so you must be from a poorer area to think there too much.


Then I guess you must be from a super rich area then! My argument is how one council can charge £75 per year, yet another can charge £2000 for the same licence!!! 

I would really like to know just what experience you have, given your previous remarks on hognoses, and then to make a comment such as the one I have quoted you on.

The whole point of this thread was to find peoples view on the disparity in DWA charges, not to start slagging off where people live. If you have no valid or informative point or response to make, please don't bother to reply. I would really prefer this thread remains as a sensible discussion debating an issue which is of some importance to both current and future DWA holders, rather than the previous threads in which you have become involved and been closed by the mods. By all means pass on your views but there is no need to be condrescending.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

I think it has to do with public liability insurance, however again how can one charge £75 the other thousands.


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

My Area isnt all that bad... and i agree, there should be some sort of money involved, as like you stated... it would tend to stop people getting the animals

But i heard Liverpool is really expensive...


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> I think it has to do with public liability insurance, however again how can one charge £75 the other thousands.


The public liability is another cost involved, and rightly so.

Sadly, until such time as the whole licence fee issue is challenged, it will continue to be a licence to print money by councils.

Of course a fee should be involved, I just feel that it should be a standard charge throughout the UK.


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

ian14 said:


> I just feel that it should be a standard charge throughout the UK.



Agreeed:notworthy:


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

I want a dwarf caimen but am not applying for a license. There was talk of them coming off this year wheather that happens I'm not sure but we can hope. 

Only an idiot would buy something like a diamond back rattlesnake if they didn't know what they was doing. They should just make you have a chip and certificate for every DWA registered animal. That way they could ban certain people having them. That would sort all problems.


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

All the time Ive kept reptiles Ive always wanted a dwarf caimen. I would be chuffed if they came off the DWA list.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sadly the review in October 07 failed to remove them, even though they only grow to 3-4 feet!

Again, sadly, anyone can apply for a licence if they can afford the fees. The review in October had great potential for changing this, sadly the opportunity was missed.


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

I know. Why are they even on there I would rather be bit by a dwarf caiman than an adult water Monitor. There are a lot more dangerous reptiles that are not on the DWA for example leopard gecko's:lol2:


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

So are they gonna look at it again this October and maybe do it then?


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

There is one coming up I was told. 

One big problem though they are trying to put retics and burms on it and that really is stupid. Should put dogs on it if thats the case as they put more people in hospital than all reptiles put together.


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

Dont say that about retics mate youll give me nightmares, if anyone tried to take mine Id throw a rabbit on their shoulder and let the snake do the rest. Is there a chance they might actually be put on the DWA list or do you think its just talk and wont happen.


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

your living in a *society*.

and in a country where the animal's dont even live. 
thanks to your society you can get hold of them. 
society has prices.


make a boat and sail to the country with the animals you want, if you dont want to pay fees. build a hut, live for yourselves.
you wouldn't even need to have them in enclosures.


i guess fees are for the lazy.
dwal's for the people who cant be bothered to biuld a boat.
bus fees for people who cant be bothered to walk.
food fees for people who cant be bothered to grow their own foods.
etc etc


your areas probably known for dwa escapes if the prices are so high.
perhaps people dont want dwa's in your area. but to give you freedom they atleast made the dwa available but at a higher price.
have you bothered to ask your councel why prices vary?


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

I personaly wouldnt want to keep venomous snakes but find them interesting, but if they decide to put large snakes on the DWA I think thats stupid. All these years it was fine but now there too dangerous. What would be the bench mark, is 10ft ok, but 11ft too dangerous like that little bit extra would make such a difference. I dont see how they could justify it and make any sense.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*DWA costs*

It appears that there are often huge differences between the costs of the DWAL i.e the council costs and the Vet inspection fees.

I can only go by my own experiences where my Local Council's cost for the DWAL is relatively inexpensive at £125 per year.

However they do insist on using a specialist vet who is highly experienced in DWAL applications and there assessment rather than being a dog/cat vet and as a result was rather costly at £450 for the inspection.

If have heard of Councils who use no specialist vets who charge much less but the council fees are considerably more expensive.

These differences should change with the alternations in the DWAL procedure next year and we should see a leveling out of fees.

However I would hate to see the fee level drop to a low level unless other elements of the application were strengthened.

If it becomes cheap and were to become a matter of paying a set fee then unsuitable persons may become keepers with potential disastrous effect on all of us.

Sorry if this sounds like I am being elitist , I'm not, but DWA species should only be kept by experienced persons.....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

the law is supposed to be changing next march, im lucky that mines a reasonable price, and they forgot to charge me the vets fees :whistling2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I see a few people saying some areas charge £2000......Which council charges £2000?


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## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

boidae said:


> your living in a *society*.
> 
> and in a country where the animal's dont even live.
> thanks to your society you can get hold of them.
> ...


:lol2: I don't come on here all that much but every time I do I find examples of your idiosity on an unforunatly high number of threads. My only fear is that someone will take your "advise" to be correct & true one day. God save us all.


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

Yeah I agree. I have only ever agreed with Boidae once other than that this is what is normally put. Think he just likes annoying people. 

And to answer a question from this morning yes they are trying to put the burms and retics on and I don't know why. Why would you have one if you didnt know what you was doing? I don't have a burm or retic yet but I will get one in a few years.

I hope it doesn't go through but I would like a dwarf caimen.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> the law is supposed to be changing next march, im lucky that mines a reasonable price, and they forgot to charge me the vets fees :whistling2:


Si, It tok my council six months to bill me for the vet.........I thought I'd gotten away with it...bugger!!!!


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

Owzy46 said:


> :lol2: I don't come on here all that much but every time I do I find examples of your idiosity on an unforunatly high number of threads. My only fear is that someone will take your "advise" to be correct & true one day. God save us all.


 
i didnt realise i advised anything.


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

You don't "advise" anyone, I can say that, you mainly just try and annoy everyone. Don't normally mind it. I think your quite a laugh just not when people were upset about the royals, and you were slating them about it.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

boidae said:


> your areas probably known for dwa escapes if the prices are so high.
> perhaps people dont want dwa's in your area. but to give you freedom they atleast made the dwa available but at a higher price.
> have you bothered to ask your councel why prices vary?


 Wrong.... The local authority decides how much.....No basis for the amount, they just pick a figure out of the air and thats it.....
There has never been an escape in my area...In fact there has only been one DWA issued and that was for a monkey.......


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

boidae said:


> your areas probably known for dwa escapes if the prices are so high.
> 
> perhaps people dont want dwa's in your area. but to give you freedom they atleast made the dwa available but at a higher price.
> have you bothered to ask your councel why prices vary?


You seem to be confident of this!!! So go on enlighten us and give instances where it is confirmed that DWAL species (and in this context Herps) have escaped.

I believe you cannot substantiate as escaped DWAL reptiles would be front page news!!!!!

Put up or shut up comes to mind!!!!!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> You seem to be confident of this!!! So go on enlighten us and give instances where it is confirmed that DWAL species (and in this context Herps) have escaped.
> 
> I believe you cannot substantiate as escaped DWAL reptiles would be front page news!!!!!
> 
> Put up or shut up comes to mind!!!!!


exactly, what a silly comment by Boidae, id be interested to know what documented escapes frm private dwa collections have happened.


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## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

He seems to make things up in his head or proably read about them on another forum or on here and decide they are fact without confirming anything first. Siillllyyyy


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## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

boidae said:


> some areas are wealthyer than other's.


 Maybe so, but Newport in south wales isn not really what I'd call a wealthy area - the charge there is about 2000 quid!


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> the law is supposed to be changing next march, im lucky that mines a reasonable price, and they forgot to charge me the vets fees :whistling2:


Do you know in which regard the law is gonna change mate?


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## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

mant01 said:


> Do you know in which regard the law is gonna change mate?


I can sense you are worried, they won't put rectic and burms on the list as far as common sense in concerned surely as there are far to many people out there with them.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

theres a thread about it somewere basically its to do with set guidelines and prices for councils to all follow, dont know if its confirmed yet but if you look up Chris Newmans threads hes written stuff about it


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

there it is

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/gene...sultation-keeping-dangerous-wild-animals.html


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> exactly, what a silly comment by Boidae, id be interested to know what documented escapes frm private dwa collections have happened.



Si,

Like I said I bet that Boidae cannot prove it!!!!

G


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

Owzy46 said:


> I can sense you are worried, they won't put rectic and burms on the list as far as common sense in concerned surely as there are far to many people out there with them.


I must admit I am concerned with idea but I guess like you said it would be hard now to enforce. Does anyone know what the dwa cost in the Durham area or Newcastle? The only DWA I would be after would be a dwarf caimen.


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

Same here dwarf caimens are awesome. They shouldn't be on the DWA.


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## jacko19 (Jul 16, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> I see a few people saying some areas charge £2000......Which council charges £2000?


I no my mate's just cost him £1600 ish :censor: Council:devil:. its ok if your got the cash though to him it's nothing


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

boidae said:


> perhaps the fees are there to make sure you really do want to look after them.
> youll pay it if you want them.
> it stops random people getting hold of dangerous wild animals.


If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you. Big one. In New York City.

Say your council charges £2000 for a DWA licence.
You don't have £2000 but you DO have enough money to go on the ferry to one of the big European shows... and you DO have enough money to spend £25 on a diamondback rattlesnake. 

If you're a law-abiding citizen who believes the DWAL fee is just and reasonable, the fact that you don't have a DWAL will stop you from spending that £25, hiding the snake on the way back (or stating you're transporting it for your partner who does have a DWAL) and just tucking it into a vivarium you don't show to visitors.

If you're not... you've just bought yourself a diamondback. Forget taking it to the vet, though... you're not allowed to have it. Forget asking a vet or a forum for advice, too. And you'd best hope nobody ever gets bitten, too... because your local council doesn't know you're keeping, neither does your local hospital... have fun being treated for an adder bite if you just go to A&E saying you'd been bitten by a snake!

It only prevents LEGITIMATE, law-abiding keepers from keeping the animals - people who aren't so concerned about the law will find ways to obtain the animals whether or not it's legal to do so.


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you. Big one. In New York City.
> 
> Say your council charges £2000 for a DWA licence.
> You don't have £2000 but you DO have enough money to go on the ferry to one of the big European shows... and you DO have enough money to spend £25 on a diamondback rattlesnake.
> ...


what are you talking about?


your councils probably dont want to many people owning them because people have probably put in partitions regarding others in the area owning dwa's. 

moooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee house


your the minority!


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> Si,
> 
> Like I said I bet that Boidae cannot prove it!!!!
> 
> G


they are examples of why they may be higher priced.

good one though




SW-morelia said:


> Wrong.... The local authority decides how much.....No basis for the amount, they just pick a figure out of the air and thats it.....
> There has never been an escape in my area...In fact there has only been one DWA issued and that was for a monkey.......


and what basis do they decide on the prices.
why dont you lot make some phone calls.


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

boidae said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> your councils probably dont want to many people owning them because people have probably put in partitions regarding others in the area owning dwa's.
> ...


Not having a go at you but where I live I cant imagine with all the problems in the area people would even think about complaining to the council just incase someone might decide on keeping a DWA. Would imagine they would have better things to think about and when I moved it took 7 yrs to get a house. But that be just me :2thumb:


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

mant01 said:


> Not having a go at you but where I live I cant imagine with all the problems in the area people would even think about complaining to the council just incase someone might decide on keeping a DWA. Would imagine they would have better things to think about and when I moved it took 7 yrs to get a house. But that be just me :2thumb:


 
you could of built your own house in days, free and away from any council or civilian. just without luxury's like electricity etc etc. in a forest somewhere.


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

boidae said:


> you could of built your own house in days, free and away from any council or civilian. just without luxury's like electricity etc etc. in a forest somewhere.


Dont think my 6 yr old daughter would fancy living in a hut mate :lol2:


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

mant01 said:


> Dont think my 6 yr old daughter would fancy living in a hut mate :lol2:


the point is, if your living in society, theres terms to live there.
people want to live safely. away from predators and dangerous things.
and thats all people complain to mayers etc about, familys safety.
thats where your fredom comes back to do things, but at a cost to keep the danger. 

you can do things your way if you move out of it. youll lack currency to buy and keep the animals though.
but as i said its society that enables you to get hold of them anyway.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

boidae said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> your councils probably dont want to many people owning them because people have probably put in partitions regarding others in the area owning dwa's.
> ...


Boidae...you are really showing how lacking in comprehension you are in the use of the english language...

Examples...

dont should be don't
to should be too
partitions I assume you really mean petitions as a partition is something that separates as in the following
*To make a division into parts, sections, or branches.*

I suggest you go back to school and stop bothering real people


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

boidae said:


> you could of built your own house in days, free and away from any council or civilian. just without luxury's like electricity etc etc. in a forest somewhere.


Do you even think before you post a comment?


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

kaimarion said:


> Do you even think before you post a comment?


 
your the ones who have accepted modern society lol.
and are complaining about the terms and conditions of it lol

go ferrel if you want everything your way.

your animals you shouldnt even be living in comfort, humans are the earths lukemia, a damging virus taking and changing structures to benifit themselves.

and as i said move area if your charged to much.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

boidae said:


> moooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee house
> 
> 
> your the minority!


what a ridiculous comment to make.

why should some-one have to move house, get a new job, make new friends etc to keep an animal they could have kept without the stress of all that?


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

Jade01 said:


> what a ridiculous comment to make.
> 
> why should some-one have to move house, get a new job, make new friends etc to keep an animal they could have kept without the stress of all that?


because your poor and your area charges more because they dont want you owning them.



_humans are weak they all seem to want freinds._
_your sanity depends on them._


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

boidae said:


> your animals you shouldnt even be living in comfort, humans are the earths lukemia, a damging virus taking and changing structures to benifit themselves.


Well thats just nature for you mate  .


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

boidae said:


> your the ones who have accepted modern society lol.
> and are complaining about the terms and conditions of it lol
> 
> go ferrel if you want everything your way.
> ...


Some people are worse than others :lol2: and animals change areas by fighting with others for territory etc. and try and get the best for themselves.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

boidae said:


> because your poor and your area charges more because they dont want you owning them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That comment annoyed me quite alot tbh. So let me get this straight? You think that because someone isnt as well off as another person, they don't have the same rights as them to keep an animal?

You are stupid. I would love to use more choice language but i dont want a ban.


And the comment about friends, if we locked you in a house on your own for the rest of your life with no contact from anyone you're telling me you would enjoy that? Nah didnt think so.


And judging by some comments you have made, you seem to have inside information about DWA and the 'escapes' that you seem to feel happens reguarly. I'd love to know where you are getting this information from...... or am i right in thinking that you've made it all up...


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## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

I have deleted a few posts. I would ask that if you want the thread to remain open you do not insult other members regardless of your opinion on them.

Some peoples outlook on life may differ form others opinions will also differ however lets keep the posts friendly as this is what the forum is about we are all part of a big happy reptile community.:whistling2:: victory:


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

Jade01 said:


> That comment annoyed me quite alot tbh. So let me get this straight? You think that because someone isnt as well off as another person, they don't have the same rights as them to keep an animal?
> 
> You are stupid. I would love to use more choice language but i dont want a ban.
> 
> ...


 
that would be classed as putting me in captivity. contradicting the hobby perhaps?

maybe you didnt read that i said i used escapes as an example of why the charges may differ.

just ring your darn council and ask them!

one reason would likely be to prevent possible escapes, after all your only human.
and 99% of you have off days.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Not real*

Perhaps those looking after the forum could consider the fact that *boidae* seems to have nothing better to do than annoy people and cannot back up his silly claims and ban him from the site for a short period?

Everyone has a right to an opinion but come on is this person real???

Or is he still doing his school work (not having a go at most decent rational youngsters by the way)


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## richingram (May 11, 2008)

well lets think about this children . councils should not have the right to licence dwa. they cant even sort they collection or disposal of rubbish and i think its easier to get a firearm (pistol)rather than a venomus snake :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

boidae said:


> that would be classed as putting me in captivity. contradicting the hobby perhaps?


yeah that would have been a good comment to make if you were talking about other social animals, but your not your talking about reptiles aka NON SOCIAL animals, so im not contradicting the hobby at all.

do you have nothing helpfull or sensible to say at all??!!


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## boidae (Jul 14, 2008)

Jade01 said:


> yeah that would have been a good comment to make if you were talking about other social animals, but your not your talking about reptiles aka NON SOCIAL animals, so im not contradicting the hobby at all.
> 
> do you have nothing helpfull or sensible to say at all??!!


all animals have sexual needs.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

boidae said:


> what are you talking about?


The "whoosh" sound we just heard was apparently my point going straight over your head.

My point, in simple terms, is this:

Expensive DWA licenses just stop LAW ABIDING people from getting DWA animals.
Expensive DWA licenses do NOT stop people who do not CARE about the law from getting DWA animals and it is THOSE people who may well have "escapes" - because they haven't been inspected by the council to ensure the safety and security of their enclosures!

I am absolutely positively 100% certain that if I decided I wanted to ILLEGALLY obtain a rattlesnake and keep one - and really put my mind to it - I could have one in my house inside of two months. DWAL prices be damned. Heck, I'm sure there are sympathetic members on here that, if I lived in a hideously expensive licencing area, might give me a point or two in the right direction. Not enough to incriminate themselves, of course, but people who empathise with the "£2000 for the INSPECTION?" pain. 

Heck, if I wanted to go even easier and an even 'surer thing' I could just go out and pick up an adder. My partner wants one, and I wouldn't even have to ask anyone for advice or help, wouldn't need receipts or paperwork stating origin (the rattler would do - I'd have to go to Europe to get one.) ... it wouldn't be traceable. Until someone got bit.

Problem is, I *do *believe that the DWA system has its good points, and I am FORTUNATE to live in Kirklees, where the licence is only about £90. (Note: Kirklees covers both scutty low-income council estates and one very lovely mansion, so it ain't "you live in a poor area" either!) That low licencing price means that I'm guaranteed to go through the correct channels and apply for my licence properly (when I'm ready).

From the public safety aspect of things, it is in a council's INTEREST to make the licences affordable but not TOO cheap. Enough to slightly discourage casual keepers; low enough not to encourage dedicated keepers to go illegal. If your licence fee is too high, you're running the risk of people deciding to ignore it and get the animals they want ANYWAY. IMO, my council's price is probably just about right. Not too pricey - it's realistically affordable if someone REALLY wants something - but not so cheap that everyone and their dog decides to keep something on the list.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

theres alot of unlicensed people about, that keep for one reason or another without the correct paperwork


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

boidae said:


> they are examples of why they may be higher priced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I have VISITED them, and their answer....... We decided it was a good price....
When I showed them a list of the prices other authorities charge and asked why they were so high they said nothing except "Thats the price we charge"
BTW....The price that was quoted to me on the phone was nearly £2000.... When I visited to ask them why it was so much they gave me a price of £338... The reason for the first price was to put me off.....The second price is still quite high compared to other councils....


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Although *Boidae* seems to put in some stupid points I'd be interested in fellow legit DWAL holders experience with the DWAL licence cost and the vet cost.

When quoting a DWAL cost of say £90 or £375 is this including the Vet inspection or plus said inspection as this could and will dramatically change the total.

As I've stated before my Council charge £125 for the DWAL but £475 for the vet total £600

I am assuming the quoted cost of £90 is for the DWAL alone + the vat???

Just interested as I always view them as seperate items (albeit linked)

Cheers Guys & Galls


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I've quoted JUST the DWAL fee, not for the vet fee; we haven't gotten that far in applying for one to know what the vet fees are for Kirklees.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> I've quoted JUST the DWAL fee, not for the vet fee; we haven't gotten that far in applying for one to know what the vet fees are for Kirklees.


If they use a dog/cat vet its likely to be quite cheap....if a specialist vet...quite a lot!!!

Depends if there are many applicants/holder in your area.

I was the first ever applicant in my area so the council went national for a suitably experienced vet!!!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my license was £90 vets inspection was supposed to be £200 but they havnt billed me yet


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

£338 is the DWA the vet is extra........Don't forget to add in the liability insurance as well...Thats compulsory in most areas.....Plus your dedicated hot room has to be up to standard and that can cost (but at least that is a one off cost unlike the others which are annual)


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

i spent about £2500 on building the room and paying all costs, youll find that everywhere you need public liability insurance its the law


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

SiUK said:


> i spent about £2500 on building the room and paying all costs, youll find that everywhere you need public liability insurance its the law


 Si are the vets an annual thing or is it a one off visit.....And as you add more to your collection do you have to have the vets around again and change/upgrade your liability insurance?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my liability covers me for up to 5 venomous snakes, with £1million of cover the vets inspection for me is annual or whenever I want to add a snake that isnt already on my license


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

SiUK said:


> my liability covers me for up to 5 venomous snakes, with £1million of cover the vets inspection for me is annual or whenever I want to add a snake that isnt already on my license


So the costs go on and on much more than the DWA cost........People don't realise how much venomous are going to set them back....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

the costs you have to pay annually at the moment are public liability, for the license and vets fees, then the initial costs are to build the room to the councils specifications which vary so the costs can as well: victory:


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
In Bristol my DWAL costs £215 a year, that is including the vet.
My public liability insurance is £425 a year, that gives me £2,000,000 cover for up to 25 snakes. I can add as many animals a year on as I want, all I have to do is inform the council and the insurers.
All the best,
Brian.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

tigersnake said:


> Hi all,
> In Bristol my DWAL costs £215 a year, that is including the vet.
> My public liability insurance is £425 a year, that gives me £2,000,000 cover for up to 25 snakes. I can add as many animals a year on as I want, all I have to do is inform the council and the insurers.
> All the best,
> Brian.


Perhaps on this forum or on the venom forum we should have a recomended insurer!


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

My council is £172 for initial application plus vets fees. However, and here's the real pain, they also insist upon a CRB check and a GP's certification. PLI is £192 for £1m cover and up to 5 animals


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
I insure my animals with Exotics Direct, they have always been very helpful, if I want to add another animal I just call them and they send mee a new cover note, but I bet they are getting nervous now Houten is close:whistling2:.
All the best,
Brian.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah mines through exotics direct as well


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## robhalex (Jul 22, 2008)

also i think funds raised from the license should go on something more than stationary for the council, it should be put towards the costs of producing the antivenom that would save lives. they should also maybe be required to milk the snakes a certain amount of times to gain venom samples that again can be used for antivenoms.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

robhalex said:


> also i think funds raised from the license should go on something more than stationary for the council, it should be put towards the costs of producing the antivenom that would save lives. they should also maybe be required to milk the snakes a certain amount of times to gain venom samples that again can be used for antivenoms.


 Basically thats a non starter...Sorry


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

robhalex said:


> also i think funds raised from the license should go on something more than stationary for the council, it should be put towards the costs of producing the antivenom that would save lives. they should also maybe be required to milk the snakes a certain amount of times to gain venom samples that again can be used for antivenoms.


it takes very expensive equipment to freeze dry venom after milking snakes for AV its more than just the milking : victory: also its not a very safe procedure.


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## jack_rep (Sep 11, 2008)

well this thread made an interesting read. Especially thanks to the genius points from *boidae. *lol 

pick up the sarcasm there?? Soooo much said that i want to tear appart, but ill resist! lol

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One thing i wanted to make a point about is just regarding the law generally about decisions of public bodies, such as your local council. 

Im afraid if you dont agree with a decision just simply on the grounds that you thinks its wrong... not much you can do there legally. You only have legal grounds to object when the council is acting 'ultra virus', by this i mean acting "outside thier power".

I havent looked up the actually piece of law myself, but im guessing there is a piece of legislation hanging about that says councils are obliged to regulate the keeping of dwas. It might even go as far as to say it should issue licences. This will legitamatly allows the council to charge for the cost of issueing such licences, i mean why should the tax payer have to foot the bill so you can keep a dwa?? However it is illegal for a public body to issue anything that is simply a revenue raising charge, or tax, without expressed concent from parlianment. So whether or not the council might think that putting the price up might deter keeping of dangerous animals... they simply cant justify it like that.

My point is that its likely that these "£2000" charges are unjustifiable, and in charging such extortionate prices means the council is acting outside their powers.

Its all a bit academic, because i doubt anyone will even do it, but if your getting charged £2000 for a licence it might be worth talking to a public law solicitor. You could bring the charge for "Judicial review", which is essentially having the councils decision to set this charge challenged in court. If successful, this would fix the problem for everyone!

Might be worth lobbying to varios herp societies to take up the case...:2thumb:


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

Most council payments go to pen-pushers wages, the rest sticks in local government anyway, there are nearly 200 workers in the council who earn more than the PM. Antivenom does cost a lot but it's a completely different issue and the money involved with perscription does not get funded there. The cost of the average DWA application costs as little as 15 quid yet they can charge to an unlimited range. Insane. The DWA is a postcode lottery, it is nothing to do with safety. When my time is up I will burn mine and never, ever get involved in this flawed system again. I shouldn't have to pay 500 quid to prove I'm safe to the public when public disorder drunks, uninsured drivers, thieves and violent criminals pay far less in fines and penalties. And yes, I believe the DWA payment is a penalty not a safety regulation. F, I'm tired of this liberal-nanny state which decimates our lives at every cry of danger while preaching tolerance multiculturalism to issues they know nothing of. 



robhalex said:


> also i think funds raised from the license should go on something more than stationary for the council, it should be put towards the costs of producing the antivenom that would save lives. they should also maybe be required to milk the snakes a certain amount of times to gain venom samples that again can be used for antivenoms.


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

Most council payments go to pen-pushers wages, the rest sticks in local government anyway, there are nearly 200 workers in the council who earn more than the PM. Antivenom does cost a lot but it's a completely different issue and the money involved with perscription does not get funded there. The cost of the average DWA application costs as little as 15 quid yet they can charge to an unlimited range. Insane. The DWA is a postcode lottery, it is nothing to do with safety. When my time is up I will burn mine and never, ever get involved in this flawed system again. I shouldn't have to pay 500 quid to prove I'm safe to the public when public disorder drunks, uninsured drivers, thieves and violent criminals pay far less in fines and penalties. And yes, I believe the DWA payment is a penalty not a safety regulation. I'm tired of this liberal-nanny state which decimates our lives at every cry of danger while preaching tolerant multiculturalism. We have red-tape bound over peoples lives and common sense!


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

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