# [email protected] and RSPCA!



## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

After years of campaigning against pet shops selling pets, the RSPCA now considers it is OK for pet shops to sell cats and dogs - as long as it is for the benefit of the RSPCA!

Anger as charities sell off rescue cats at giant pet superstores after years of campaigning against the sale of animals in shops | Mail Online


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## jdh (Oct 28, 2013)

whilst i agree some of the "voluntary donations" are a bit steep i dont see how housing them in store is different to kennels (cattery, center whatever they call it) money grabbing maybe but i do see how some money would be for its upkeep and if you can afford a fee then wont that make you think if you can really afford the animal? im talking generally here i only have experience with our local re homing centre not the rspca
says in the article you cant take them on the day so you do have the time to think it through. if for instance you where pressured by kids.


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## jaybott (Mar 12, 2014)

This is just more evidence that the RSPCA needs to be shuck up and money grabbers sacked


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

With the way things are going with dogs and cats just now it's hardly a surprise that the rescues are getting more and more desperate. I'm aiming my anger at the irresponsible breeders rather than the charities that can't cope with the influx of unwanted dogs and cats.

Pets at home are an all round scummy company in my opinion. 67,000 rabbits in rescue up and down the UK but [email protected] continue to sell them.


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## jdh (Oct 28, 2013)

Middleton Mouse said:


> With the way things are going with dogs and cats just now it's hardly a surprise that the rescues are getting more and more desperate. I'm aiming my anger at the irresponsible breeders rather than the charities that can't cope with the influx of unwanted dogs and cats.
> 
> Pets at home are an all round scummy company in my opinion. 67,000 rabbits in rescue up and down the UK but [email protected] continue to sell them.


they will continue to sell them as long as there is demand. what are most people going to go for the adult or the cute younger one in the shop thats they can walk into and take away there and then?


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

I think the U Turn in policy is more to do with making money for the RSPCA, than anything to do with animal welfare.


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

jdh said:


> they will continue to sell them as long as there is demand. what are most people going to go for the adult or the cute younger one in the shop thats they can walk into and take away there and then?


There are plenty of babies in rescue as well as adults, unfortunately as you say people often seem to "need" an animal there and then. There's also the sad fact that many people are totally unaware that there's so many rabbits in rescues.

Before I got any of my rabbits I spent 10 minutes researching online (googled "rabbit care forum" and checked out the first link) and in that time found out how dire the rescue situation is.


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

As if they werent a big enough joke already.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

RSPCA about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!


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## Rogue665 (Mar 17, 2010)

I agree kinda, [email protected] took animals from the shelter and rehomed them in their shops but these homes wont be vetted and checks wont be done.
but they still buy off animal mills and back yard breeders supporting these people and putting money in their pocket.
RSPCA are getting worse with their standards and approach.
People need to get their head out of their arse and stop buying from these people so these scum don't see a profit and wont do it again, but oh no of course not, that'll never happen, these people are just as bad as the millers and byb who they buy off. Just a little research and they can learn it all but no, they just go around with their eyes shut.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Dogs, cats, whatever, I don't think you can redeem yourself by homing strays and unwanted pets when you're actually selling young ones to anyone who walks into your shop.

It just doesn't work for me.


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

I read another article about this a while ago and it claimed that homechecks etc would still be carried out for animals being rehomed through the charities but kept at [email protected] stores. it was highlighted on the rabbit care forum I use and this was the response given on [email protected] facebook page.

_*It has no a thing to do with store staff and is independent charity work. Run and organised by the charities and their staff. They will take full responsibility for animals and they will not be left in store. Some animals may be 'visitors' to highlight charity and work. Much the same as the hundreds of independent rescues who use pets at home stores for charity collection who come along for a day and sit outside rattling their tins and bring with them dogs who need homes from the charity.*_

Others e-mailed [email protected] and received replies saying the adoption processes will be the same for anyone wishing to adopt one of the rescue animals (i.e. that rehoming questionnaires and homechecks etc would still apply if this is what the charities do normally).

Another post from the same thread on the subject

_*I work at a RSPCA centre that works with one of these adoption centres. The adoption centre is set back from the main body of the store and has two large pens and a large reception area in front of them, each of the pens are at guess about the size of four of the pens in our centre, it is staffed by staff from the RSPCA. When choosing which cats to move there we look at how long the cat has been waiting for a new home and the personality of the cat itself, we look for the out going friendly cats that like attention and don't mind lots of activity going on around them and we don't send kittens only fully grown adult cats. They don't stay there for weeks and weeks, if they don't have any interest shown they come back to us.
If some one expresses interest in the cat they are spoken to about the cat and what they are like ect, they can spend some time in the pen with them playing, grooming the cat, they reserve them and then a home visit is carried out to make sure everything is suitable. The adoption fee comes back to the RSPCA centre the cat was from and not pets at home.

Dogs also visit the centre for the day again only dogs that are suitable and won't be affected by the shop environment attend. If someone likes the dog they are then asked to attended the centre the dog is at and go through the adoption process that way.

Our centre has had some really good results from sending animals to the adoption centre, we had a dog that had been in kennels for nearly 2 years get a brilliant home after being seen in the adoption centre and some of our long stay cats or pairs of cats which don't go as quick as the single cats have also found great new homes from being there. 

Going of my experiance i think it is a good thing that has been set up *_

There's also the fact that this is the Daily Mail we're reading.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

When the story first came out the charities said that the animals were just on display to find homes and the adopters would still have to go threw the rescue just like they normally would so they won't actualy be buying them from the shop. (The papers then didn't mention that bit then either making it sound as if the shops were selling the animals).
So it's no diffrent than the dog being in a kennel at the rescue for people to view. Except the dog will be seen by more people who may not habe thought about a rescue dog. So I don't see what the big fuss is about the shop has said its not getting money for it as its offering the space free and the rescue does the rehoming not the shop so all there normal checks will be done the dogs just spend the day out of the rescue being seen.


The dogs trust are doing it too, they say they habe a member of staff on duty with the dogs to offer advice on getting and owning a dog and people apply threw the rescue and go threw there normal process and the dogs go back the the rescue at the end of the day.

"In partnership with Support Adoption For Pets we are setting up “Advice and Adoption” areas in several Pets at Home stores across the country, all within one hour’s drive from the local Dogs Trust rehoming centre.

We are concerned that people are not aware of the risks in buying a dog from a pet shop, through classified advertisements or an irresponsible breeder. By having a regular presence in a large responsible retailer we will be able to meet thousands of potential new owners and talk to them about responsible dog ownership and what to look for when buying a dog.

Dogs Trust will have dedicated team members in each of these Advice and Adoption areas at all times who will showcase a selection of the fantastic dogs available for rehoming, feed and walk the dogs as well as greeting the public and answering any questions that potential owners will have on dog adoption.

It will not be possible to rehome a dog directly from this store and perspective owners will still need to come and visit us at our rehoming centre, maintaining the integrity of the dog’s welfare and following our high standard rehoming experience including home checks and questionnaires."
Dogs Trust | Pets At Home


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

For those with short memories:

[email protected] were importing rabbits - from Spain - which had been neutered at 6 weeks of age!

Also, most Breed clubs (dog and cat) have breed-specific welfare and re-homing - yet the great majority of rescue 'charities' refuse to contact, or use, those organisations! One has to question the reasoning behind their attitude!

[email protected] have an abysmal reputation - and are geared to one end result - profit!

The combination of [email protected] and the RSPCA is worrying - it is guaranteed that [email protected] will never be prosecuted by the RSPCA!

As for [email protected] offering their facilities for free - that is not in their nature!

[email protected] tried to set up an Exotic Insurance scheme to sell insurance with all reptiles sold - but that seems to have disappeared.


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## Shegu (Sep 1, 2013)

Pets at Home are a business motivated by profit
The RSPCA are a charity which seems to have become a business with the same motivation..Profit

The bottom line here seems to be that as long as there's money to made, the welfare of animals takes second place unfortunately


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Rogue665 said:


> I agree kinda, [email protected] took animals from the shelter and rehomed them in their shops but these homes wont be vetted and checks wont be done.
> but they still buy off animal mills and back yard breeders supporting these people and putting money in their pocket.
> RSPCA are getting worse with their standards and approach.
> People need to get their head out of their arse and stop buying from these people so these scum don't see a profit and wont do it again, but oh no of course not, that'll never happen, these people are just as bad as the millers and byb who they buy off. Just a little research and they can learn it all but no, they just go around with their eyes shut.


Where the hell do you get your information. Pets At Home actually don't like to buy off private people, they have animal wholesalers and approved breeders. They actually have a team that inspects their suppliers regularly.
People need to get over this hump about Pets At Home, at the very least, they are no worse than any of the small independent pet stores that we aren't allowed to name on this forum (Not sure why people can bad mouth them and get away with it here).

I am not the biggest fan of the RSPCA, but of late, they have proven to be more interested in reptile welfare than the organisations that are supposedly in charge of this hobby!

All we have here is the RSPCA utilising the largest chain of pet store in the country to show case some cats and dogs that need rehoming. How can anyone see that as a bad thing??
You can whine about them being profiteering etc, but ultimately, who cares as long as the animals are treated properly and get a nice new home.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

PPVallhunds said:


> The dogs trust are doing it too, they say they habe a member of staff on duty with the dogs to offer advice on getting and owning a dog and people apply threw the rescue and go threw there normal process and the dogs go back the the rescue at the end of the day.


The way that I see it, if the Dogs Trust are going to do this and have a member of staff on duty at all times, then why can't they take the dogs in need of homes with them to PaH on leads to sit beside them in the shop and talk to people about them, then take them back to the kennels at night, rather than leave them in a cage at the shop? To me that is the way to rehome a dog through a pet shop. Not stick them in cages for people to gawp at.



duffey1 said:


> Also, most Breed clubs (dog and cat) have breed-specific welfare and re-homing - yet the great majority of rescue 'charities' refuse to contact, or use, those organisations! One has to question the reasoning behind their attitude!


This is one of my biggest 'beefs' with large charities. I know more about this through the pedigree cat world than pedigree dogs, but when they get a pedigree cat in they don't contact the breed rescue, which will happily take them and find homes for them. If they contacted the breed rescues that would leave a space for a moggie to be saved, but then again, pedigree cats are easier to rehome and get a rehoming fee from than a boring black moggie. :sad:


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

I think actually selling the cats thru petshops, is the lesser of two evils, it means that they have to put fewer animals to sleep.

dont be p***ed off at the RSPCA, be p****ed off at the thousands of people irresponsibly breeding cats to make a few quid, huge numbers of which then end up in shelters


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## Matt Lusty (Aug 20, 2008)

How do you know that the cats and dogs put up for rehoming in [email protected], will not go to a home that then changes their mind and puts the animal back into a rescue centre? Doesn't seem to be a fool proof plan to me. Just seems to be a convenient way of the rspca making a bit more money. 

We have a family living near us who have 19 cats running feral around the area. We have rescued and rehomed 2 kittens that were left outside to fend for themselves. The mother actually gave birth on our front lawn! We also found one dead in the neighbours garden. When we rang the rspca to come and check it out and do something about it, they said they wouldn't get involved in trying to rehome cats or kittens as they didn't have the room and as long as they were being fed, they wouldn't intervene. They are not being fed as they rip the bins open every week looking for food. No sooner do you put a bag out, there are several straight to it!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

CloudForest said:


> dont be p***ed off at the RSPCA, be p****ed off at the thousands of people irresponsibly breeding cats to make a few quid, huge numbers of which then end up in shelters


Sorry, but I'm p***ed of by both (or all) of them!!!



Matt Lusty said:


> We have a family living near us who have 19 cats running feral around the area. We have rescued and rehomed 2 kittens that were left outside to fend for themselves. The mother actually gave birth on our front lawn! We also found one dead in the neighbours garden. When we rang the rspca to come and check it out and do something about it, they said they wouldn't get involved in trying to rehome cats or kittens as they didn't have the room and as long as they were being fed, they wouldn't intervene. They are not being fed as they rip the bins open every week looking for food. No sooner do you put a bag out, there are several straight to it!


Sorry, but that's par for the course with the RSPCA.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

feorag said:


> Sorry, but I'm p***ed of by both (or all) of them!!!
> 
> Sorry, but that's par for the course with the RSPCA.


it would be nice to live in a world where groups such as the RSPCA are not necessary. but people mistreat animals, so we do need them.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

feorag said:


> The way that I see it, if the Dogs Trust are going to do this and have a member of staff on duty at all times, then why can't they take the dogs in need of homes with them to PaH on leads to sit beside them in the shop and talk to people about them, then take them back to the kennels at night, rather than leave them in a cage at the shop? To me that is the way to rehome a dog through a pet shop. Not stick them in cages for people to gawp at.


I've not been to one so I don't know how they have arranged it but I would think they would have a pen or pens so the dogs don't have to be restrained on a lead all day and can then get away from people if they wanted to. It would also allow one member of staff to take more than one dog. So the dogs could be swapped around to get a break and would stop kids trying to pester the dogs while the handler is talking. From what I had read the dogs don't stay at the shop over night they go back to the rescue.


How is being in a pen for people to gawp at any diffrent to allowing the public to come to the rescue to gawp at them?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Nothing, other than the fact that anyone who goes to a kennel is 'presumably' looking for a dog, whereas anyone who goes to a pet shop isn't! I see that as a big difference to be honest.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

feorag said:


> Nothing, other than the fact that anyone who goes to a kennel is 'presumably' looking for a dog, whereas anyone who goes to a pet shop isn't! I see that as a big difference to be honest.


So you don't like photos of rescue dogs in the dog magazines either then? Or rescue segments on tv? The idea is no diffrent to those and would be run the same way.

Also playing devils advocate sadly hundreds or people buy puppies from pet shops every year. If this may help reduce that number but the impulsive people would still go that route as they wouldn't want to Waite and jump threw the rescues hoops. Also Pets at home have a notice board where people advertise there litters. There could easerly be an owner who if thinking about getting another dog but for whatever reason never considered a rescue who was in there getting stuff for there current dog and after meeting a rescue dog and speaking to the staff may then consider one rather than buying one of the poorly bred puppies from the notice board.

But the fact that the people still have to go threw the rescue centre and all the same process and checks that someone who saw the dog at the rescue kennel does that would stop the unsuitable people getting one.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's a bit of an over-reaction!


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

PPVallhunds

You stated "hundreds or people buy puppies from pet shops every year" - sorry, but your statement is totally incorrect. Pet shops are no longer allowed to sell puppies or kittens - one of the few 'good' campaigns by the RSPCA. Yet the RSPCA, having stopped pet shops from selling them, now wish to 'sell' their own stock via a selected pet shop! 

Tarron
You stated "Pets At Home actually don't like to buy off private people, they have animal wholesalers and approved breeders" - where do you think their wholesalers obtain stock? [email protected] have never, to my knowledge, purchased from private individuals - even when they traded in (overpriced) birds such a barely weaned parrots.
Also, if you backtrack on threads on this site, you will find details of [email protected] bringing in rabbits from Spain where, as part of the 'deal', they had been neutered at the age of 6 weeks (barely weaned and possibly illegal if done in the UK). Does that supplier fall within 'animal wholesalers and approved breeders'?

Has anyone thought of the stress that the cats and dogs involved will go through being shuttled from a 'known' environment (rescue centre/shelter) to a pet shop and back every day?


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## jdh (Oct 28, 2013)

you say petshops are not allowed to sell puppies but i was in a shop in carsile last week that had 4 for sale.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> PPVallhunds
> 
> You stated "hundreds or people buy puppies from pet shops every year" - sorry, but your statement is totally incorrect. Pet shops are no longer allowed to sell puppies or kittens - one of the few 'good' campaigns by the RSPCA. Yet the RSPCA, having stopped pet shops from selling them, now wish to 'sell' their own stock via a selected pet shop!
> 
> ...



They use the EXACT same wholesalers as every other reptile selling pet shop in the country, namely Peregrine Livefoods and Monkfields who, on the whole, breed their own stock. They do not generally buy from private breeders because they cannot control the prices and it would become too expensive. They will breed because it is cheaper for them so they make a larger profit.
Of course, if you want to bad mouth pets at home about where they get their animals from, then you neex to bad mouth every pets shop in the country too.

I have not read about the Spanish rabbits but to be honest, whats the problem? It is perfectly legal in Spain for them to be neutered at that age, and at least they were selling neutered rabbits, rather than other places that sale entire rabbits, in pairs, so that there are thousands of neglected babies in rescues every year.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

duffey1 said:


> PPVallhunds
> 
> You stated "hundreds or people buy puppies from pet shops every year" - sorry, but your statement is totally incorrect. Pet shops are no longer allowed to sell puppies or kittens - one of the few 'good' campaigns by the RSPCA. Yet the RSPCA, having stopped pet shops from selling them, now wish to 'sell' their own stock via a selected pet shop!
> 
> ...



do you have a link regarding ban on kitten sales in pet shops? I can find nothing online, not convinced its correct...?


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Was gonna say... I've seen kittens for sale in a couple of pet shops within the past year for sure.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Pet shop puppy sales should be banned say animal charities - Mirror Online

This is from late last year...


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> PPVallhunds
> 
> You stated "hundreds or people buy puppies from pet shops every year" - sorry, but your statement is totally incorrect. Pet shops are no longer allowed to sell puppies or kittens - one of the few 'good' campaigns by the RSPCA. Yet the RSPCA, having stopped pet shops from selling them, now wish to 'sell' their own stock via a selected pet shop!
> neutered at the age of 6 weeks (barely weaned and possibly illegal if done in the UK). Does that supplier fall within 'animal wholesalers and approved breeders'?



Are u sure as I've not see a chance in the law on this, and councils are still offering pet shop licences specifically for them to sell puppies and kittens for normaly for an extra charge.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Tarron said:


> They use the EXACT same wholesalers as every other reptile selling pet shop in the country, namely Peregrine Livefoods and Monkfields who, on the whole, breed their own stock. They do not generally buy from private breeders because they cannot control the prices and it would become too expensive. They will breed because it is cheaper for them so they make a larger profit.
> Of course, if you want to bad mouth pets at home about where they get their animals from, then you neex to bad mouth every pets shop in the country too.
> 
> I have not read about the Spanish rabbits but to be honest, whats the problem? It is perfectly legal in Spain for them to be neutered at that age, and at least they were selling neutered rabbits, rather than other places that sale entire rabbits, in pairs, so that there are thousands of neglected babies in rescues every year.


You are misinformed on a number of the points but I will leave it their, that said it would be helpful if you were more informed and dint just jump on issue for the sake of it..!!


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

feorag said:


> That's a bit of an over-reaction!


Not realy it's the exact same thing, some one sees the dog inthe shop with the rescue staff just like they would on tv, then they go to the rescue to see about applying to adopt. The only diffrence is they saw the dog in a diffrent place.



feorag said:


> The way that I see it, if the Dogs Trust are going to do this and have a member of staff on duty at all times, then why can't they take the dogs in need of homes with them to PaH on leads to sit beside them in the shop and talk to people about them, then take them back to the kennels at night, rather than leave them in a cage at the shop? *To me that is the way to rehome a dog through a pet shop.*


So how come u would be happy for them to do it if the dog was sitting on lead in the shop but not if the dog has a pen it could walk about in and have a stretch in? (I would hope the rescue would make sure the pens had plenty of space that the dogs would need)
Surely it's better they have an area where they are free to move about where it can move out of reach of the people if I wanted to rather than having to wait for the handler to decide it's had enough.

Don't get me wrong if they were keeping them in cages or too small pens and/or the dogs were staying in the shop when they closed and/or with out rescue staff with them while there there then yes I'd completely agree with you that it was a terrible idea.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

.......


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

PPVallhunds said:


> So how come u would be happy for them to do it if the dog was sitting on lead in the shop but not if the dog has a pen it could walk about in and have a stretch in? (I would hope the rescue would make sure the pens had plenty of space that the dogs would need)
> Surely it's better they have an area where they are free to move about where it can move out of reach of the people if I wanted to rather than having to wait for the handler to decide it's had enough.
> 
> Don't get me wrong if they were keeping them in cages or too small pens and/or the dogs were staying in the shop when they closed and/or with out rescue staff with them while there there then yes I'd completely agree with you that it was a terrible idea.


I see it as different, because the dog is sitting beside a person who is familiar to it and as such the person who brought it would have enough knowledge of the dog to take notice of its behaviour and take it out out for a walk and a break if it was looking fed up.

I think the dogs' needs must always come first and I don't think being put in a cage/pen in an unfamiliar pet shop regardless of how much space they have could be pretty stressful for some dogs.

Putting a photo in a magazine or a bone fide rescue advertising that the dog needs a home on the internet or TV would not be stressful for the dog.

Sorry you have your views and I have mine, but I think yours are more simplistic than mine.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

but surley the rescue handler can still do that if the dog is in a pen, they can be standing in the pen with the dog so the dog is in with the same person it knows who can still watch its behaviour and take it out for break walks and such.

At discover dogs at crufts the dogs are kept in pens when on the breed stands, the owners are in the pens with the dogs talking about the breed and people can see the dogs in the pens and owners will take some dogs out of the pen at a time for people to meet and swap them around to have a break. so the dogs in the pens can move away from people if they don't want them to stroke them. The dogs get to go out for a walk and toilet breaks during that time. 

Id assume it would be the same set up with the rescues, but as I said iv never been to one of the shops doing it so can only say how I think it should be done.

yes we all have our different view, don't worrie Im not taking it personaly that we don't seem to agree on this topic..


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Glad to know you aren't taking it personally, as we usually agree on most things.

Again, I think the difference with Discover Dogs is that these dogs have grown up and live in very different circumstances. A lot of these are show dogs, used to being taken out and about around a lot of people. In fact these particular dogs are chosen more for their temperament to show the breed in a good light rather than their good looks.

Certainly the cats you see at The Supreme Show are chosen for those reasons - they're outgoing, confident cats who will show off the breed to prospective new owners.

A lot of rescue dogs haven't had this sort of 'nurturing' in their lives and are living in kennels. Yes I agree it 'could' work if they do it right in a pet shop, but sorry I still have reservations as to whether it will be good for the dogs.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Arh now I get what ur saying, so I guess they would have to be very carefully on picking which dogs would be suitable to do such a thing.

Yes were ment to take confident dogs for the discover dogs with good temperaments. I took mine the year befor last and noticed this year when applying to do it there was a reminder not to take nervous dogs as some comments had been made the year before. So not allowed to take her anymore which is a shame as I thought she coped well and was good socialization for her.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

that's really my main point - a dog that has been brought up right, socialised and 'nurtured' is a very different animal to a lot that end up in rescues. These charities would have to be very selective which dogs they took with them, but that to me wouldn't be fair, because it doesn't necessarily follow that these dogs will be better pets than the neglected or abused one once they are in the right home. so the easy dogs would go and the difficult, problem ones wouldn't, sadly.

At least in their kennels where they live permanently the difficult ones aren't going to be stressed and maybe more reactive than the 'easy' ones.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Good Point there feorag


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## PigeonYouDead (Aug 9, 2013)

I was always under the impression you can't sell cats and dogs from pet shops, though there is a big (independent) pet shop in Leeds which always has kittens for sale in the store. They're not with their mother, and they're kept in one of those awful glass containers...

[email protected] are a disgrace. They contribute to the problem but repeatedly selling animals without bothering to ensure the new owners are actually capable of looking after them. I could go in there tomorrow, and walk out with 5 baby rabbits, most likely sexed wrongly, and they wouldn't give two stuffs. They were always unscrupulous; I remember going in there years ago when the chain started, they had rabbits suffering heat stroke from being kept in the perspex pens with no ventilation, 6 to a pen, with one water bottle, on constant show to the public, including those with dogs walking past, and several dead hamsters being kept with live ones who were in the process of chewing on them.

Sick of the RSPCA doing a crap job too. I wish we could elect a new animal charity, seems to me they do sweet F.A; the program on dog wardens / dangerous dogs that was on a few weeks ago, made it seem like none of their employees a - had any idea whatsoever on how to handle dogs, or treat them with any dignity or respect, or b - even gave a sh1t about them.

And really what it boils down to is, for the most part, the kind of people buying pets from pets at home are not the kind of people that would or even should be taking on rescue animals, which often need more care and attention than those animals owned from babies.


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## PigeonYouDead (Aug 9, 2013)

Tarron said:


> They use the EXACT same wholesalers as every other reptile selling pet shop in the country, namely Peregrine Livefoods and Monkfields who, on the whole, breed their own stock. They do not generally buy from private breeders because they cannot control the prices and it would become too expensive. They will breed because it is cheaper for them so they make a larger profit.
> Of course, if you want to bad mouth pets at home about where they get their animals from, then you neex to bad mouth every pets shop in the country too.
> 
> I have not read about the Spanish rabbits but to be honest, whats the problem? It is perfectly legal in Spain for them to be neutered at that age, and at least they were selling neutered rabbits, rather than other places that sale entire rabbits, in pairs, so that there are thousands of neglected babies in rescues every year.


This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read. A - WELL-managed independent shops use small scale private independent breeders, where bloodlines are kept healthy, and breeding is done for love of the breed or to compete with the animals, NOT for profit.

B - What you've stated about rabbits proves you know absolutely nothing of what you talking about. Neutering a rabbit that young is extremely dangerous; it prevents them growing normally, and is too much strain to put a young rabbit under a GA unless necessary. I agree neutering is paramount for a happy rabbit relationship, but there are minimum ages for the operation for a reason. The fact it's legal in spain is totally irrelevant. You can legally have sex with a girl age 12 in Mexico, does that make it ok here? NO.

I don't know if you're being deliberately obstructive for argument's sake, but if you genuinely hold that opinion, I'm concerned for you.


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

The VIP rabbit thing was an absolutely tragic idea that was rightly scrapped very soon after it was introduced. Not sure how anyone could condone having an animal go through unnecessary invasive surgery before it's even old enough to leave its mother.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

PigeonYouDead said:


> Sick of the RSPCA doing a crap job too. I wish we could elect a new animal charity, seems to me they do sweet F.A; *the program on dog wardens / dangerous dogs that was on a few weeks ago, made it seem like none of their employees a - had any idea whatsoever on how to handle dogs, or treat them with any dignity or respect, or b - even gave a sh1t about them.
> *
> .


You mean, faffing around for over an hour, screaming your head off and dragging an obviously exhausted dog all over the place is NOT the right thing to do? :whistling2::crazy:
Seriously though, I had serious urges to slap those two women...


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## PigeonYouDead (Aug 9, 2013)

BMo1979 said:


> You mean, faffing around for over an hour, screaming your head off and dragging an obviously exhausted dog all over the place is NOT the right thing to do? :whistling2::crazy:
> Seriously though, I had serious urges to slap those two women...


That poor akita.  Loved what a teddy it was at the end though, flopping about on it's back lol


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

PigeonYouDead said:


> That poor akita.  Loved what a teddy it was at the end though, flopping about on it's back lol


I know, he was so gorgeous. Lucky for them he wasn't truly aggressive, just loud. IMHO, that woman that got bitten before, seemed very scared of big barky dogs in general and that made her quite unsuitable for the job she was doing. It's outright dangerous to be terrified when you have to handle dogs, as even the most placid dog might react defensively when someone reacts to them like she did (screaming, twitching, etc). 
Maybe she should have had therapy for her fears before returning to active duty.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Totally agree with you there Brigitte.

It cause a bit of a furore on the Blue Cross volunteer site, because she's also a Blue Cross volunteer and had posted information about the programme. She was highly criticised for her handling of that issue by one of the Akita owning volunteers and myself, but justified it by saying she was fighting against the dog for over an hour because the authorities just wanted to shoot it and she wanted to save it, but I still didn't agree.


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## PigeonYouDead (Aug 9, 2013)

Totally agree. And when you look at the situation it was in, you have to make allowances, it was hot, starving, thirsty, and frightened, so obviously it's going to be kicking off. It's a shame they didn't tempt it out with some food and water before getting it on the catchpole.

Makes you wonder what training they actually give their staff...


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