# rattlesnakes in the uk?



## Lukethegecko (Feb 25, 2010)

Quick hypothetical. if some one was the release 100 C. viridis adults in an area of south/south east/south west england would they be able to survive and breed. Not that im saying release your raterlers to see if this is true!!! that is really, really stupid! i just want to have a sensible debate about this, you know to get the neurons firing.


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## R3P (Aug 9, 2012)

UK is no way near hot enough


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

have you seen our weather:lol2:


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## R3P (Aug 9, 2012)

14 degrees celsius here :lol2: But they do originate from South Canada to North Mexico so they do stand a chance


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## Lukethegecko (Feb 25, 2010)

i know weather is crap ^^ but thats the point of the question ^^ any way, here in kent its been lovely


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Not if they were all the same sex :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ip3kid (May 21, 2008)

I'd say yes, depending on where(habitat wise).
There's a lot of foreign species floating about the UK that you'd never expect to have made it. There's a colony of corns in Essex if I rember rightly.


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## SmexyHerps (Dec 14, 2012)

I think yeah probably, there's a pond where i live where people have released snapping turtles and they are thriving in there which is bad for the fish but there's nothing anyone can do now. (I know its not snakes but you know what I mean):whistling2:


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## ip3kid (May 21, 2008)

RAUK Identification Guide

There's a few more unlisted and not as known, but they are about. If I'm honest I wouldn't be surprised if there WERE small groups of venomous' about, due to all the animals that got wild released a few decades back after the introduction of the Dangerous Wild Animals act.


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## Lukethegecko (Feb 25, 2010)

coldestblood said:


> Not if they were all the same sex :Na_Na_Na_Na:


only if they were all males  snakes can do parthenogenesis  



they could most likely survive in the drier/warmer parts of the country (East, the south east and south) i hope they can't, but if they can flourish there is alot of prey for them...


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

ip3kid said:


> RAUK Identification Guide
> 
> There's a few more unlisted and not as known, but they are about. If I'm honest I wouldn't be surprised if there WERE small groups of venomous' about, due to all the animals that got wild released a few decades back after the introduction of the Dangerous Wild Animals act.


you are talking cobblers , the few people who did keep Venomous snakes before 1976 and it really was only a few would not have released their venomous snakes because of the inception of the act they merely kept it quiet,or simply got a licence it wasn't hard to do. Do you think keepers were really that irresponsible back then? the problems with releases at that time came from idiotic slightly unhinged big cat keepers who thought their beloved pet deserved freedom from the "injustice" of the act the fact that many of these idiots were keeping big cats in undersized flimsy chainlink fenced enclosures in the yard of their two bedroom semi didn't seem to matter to them and and indeed thought it was perfectly acceptable, the reality was very few animals were actually released because of the act in fact more had escaped because the act wasn't in place.
To believe their are small populations of undiscovered exotics in the UK demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding Ecology. the known invasive species that have formed viable colonies have in all cases be attributed to an event such as a mass escape usually caused by enclosure failures in public exhibits or government breeding facilities not from private collections , and when I mean viable I mean that they have a sustainable niche in the ecosystem and are able to reproduce generation after generation. the romantic Idea that individual escapees will someday meet up with another of the same species and succesfully reproduce and go on to form viable colonies is fantasy.


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

Survival is one thing, breeding is another.
Rattlesnakes may just "survive" the more dry, warmer parts of the UK but I doubt it would be warm enough to produce offspring.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

we have a colony of corn snakes in cornwall so it is possible for invasives to survive and breed. but its food and temperature that seem to dictate there survival. people are aware of the bright orange corn snakes floating about they know there not venomous and they tend to burmate in cavity walls where they are in peoples homes so dont get exposed to the elements. where as i think a few people would be out with shovels and guns down here if a rattler community started to become establised. this said beast of bodmin has pretty much been proven to be either a leopard/(panther) or a puma (mountain lion) and its still not been caught and i dont think it/they ever will unless a person get attacked a few sheep each year is no biggie.. one thing i will say is invasives are a nightmare and anyone keeping something that could survive should be extra carefull as dice snakes and other non native natrix are causing our own native natrix to have to fight for food and habitat. could be worse though we could be in america florida has screwed there eco system big time to the extent i went diving less than a week ago in mexico and now the carribean has lion fish (there a long way from egypt)


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> we have a colony of corn snakes in cornwall so it is possible for invasives to survive and breed. but its food and temperature that seem to dictate there survival. people are aware of the bright orange corn snakes floating about they know there not venomous and they tend to burmate in cavity walls where they are in peoples homes so dont get exposed to the elements. where as i think a few people would be out with shovels and guns down here if a rattler community started to become establised. this said beast of bodmin has pretty much been proven to be either a leopard/(panther) or a puma (mountain lion) and its still not been caught and i dont think it/they ever will unless a person get attacked a few sheep each year is no biggie.. one thing i will say is invasives are a nightmare and anyone keeping something that could survive should be extra carefull as dice snakes and other non native natrix are causing our own native natrix to have to fight for food and habitat. could be worse though we could be in america florida has screwed there eco system big time to the extent i went diving less than a week ago in mexico and now the carribean has lion fish (there a long way from egypt)


 Is there more information on the corn snake introductions mikeyb? Articles or web pages?


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## House of Venom (Jun 23, 2013)

Tim Hallam said:


> you are talking cobblers , the few people who did keep Venomous snakes before 1976 and it really was only a few would not have released their venomous snakes because of the inception of the act they merely kept it quiet,or simply got a licence it wasn't hard to do. Do you think keepers were really that irresponsible back then? the problems with releases at that time came from idiotic slightly unhinged big cat keepers who thought their beloved pet deserved freedom from the "injustice" of the act the fact that many of these idiots were keeping big cats in undersized flimsy chainlink fenced enclosures in the yard of their two bedroom semi didn't seem to matter to them and and indeed thought it was perfectly acceptable, the reality was very few animals were actually released because of the act in fact more had escaped because the act wasn't in place.
> To believe their are small populations of undiscovered exotics in the UK demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding Ecology. the known invasive species that have formed viable colonies have in all cases be attributed to an event such as a mass escape usually caused by enclosure failures in public exhibits or government breeding facilities not from private collections , and when I mean viable I mean that they have a sustainable niche in the ecosystem and are able to reproduce generation after generation. the romantic Idea that individual escapees will someday meet up with another of the same species and succesfully reproduce and go on to form viable colonies is fantasy.



Thank [email protected]%K for that Tim, 

I shouldn't need to worry about the 4 escapes I had last week.

Dont worry they are not the same species so i am sure they have gone their separate ways.

On a plus side the rotten old bitch next door has been quiet for a few days.


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

House of Venom said:


> Thank [email protected]%K for that Tim,
> 
> I shouldn't need to worry about the 4 escapes I had last week.
> 
> ...


 Now, if venomous snake keeping were unlicensed and very, very popular, well the Pension budget could be greatly, reduced. WELL IT COULD BE!!

:lol2:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

1b3 said:


> Is there more information on the corn snake introductions mikeyb? Articles or web pages?


its cornwall they only just realised how a computer works lol but i believe there up near launceston somewhere. but how mild out climate is i mean we have palm tree's i imagine some of the hardier american species could survive and reproduce here and even some ov the asian species from the colder temps like bamboo snakes etc


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

You might know that coconuts, of all things, are sometimes found on the Uk's Atlantic coast. Palm trees grow well in Scotland aswell. The reason being the winters are mild and so the trees never completely freeze.
Cornsnakes need heat to hatch eggs in summer though, If compost heaps, outbuildings with tyres, metal etc can provide consistantly warm undisturbed microclimates then perhaps maybe.
A long way to go still before they become an invasive species. One really cool summer or a severe winter and they've had it.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

we dont get severe winters in cornwall though hence we have a really healthy adder population


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2013)

I guess it's not impossible. But remember this weather might be amazing right now, but with our weather system it could possible be like winter next week. So the temps wouldn't be consistent enough for many species. 

I'm sure a few single specimens might adapt and survive, but as for reproducing I think that would be a long way off. Some rattlesnakes hibernate through winters, but these dens they choose holds 1000's of them which is obviously for a reason. So unless some idiot wants to release 1000's of these snakes I highly doubt they would be able to reproduce enough to be considered an invasive species which is here to stay.


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

SmexyHerps said:


> I think yeah probably, there's a pond where i live where people have released snapping turtles and they are thriving in there which is bad for the fish but there's nothing anyone can do now. (I know its not snakes but you know what I mean):whistling2:


I didnt know that, where do you live and have you got any pictures?


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