# A Message to everybody on the DWA Forum:



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

I have been informed by a Member who has posted on my Thread "Starting a Venomous Snake collection" that people are getting irritated with me?

My enthusiasm with these animals gets me carried away and I appologise to everybody who were getting irritated by me....

I am certainly not a "Troll" and I am here to gain advice from you experienced keepers who post on the forum. - Not just for a "Wind up"

I truely appologise to all who were getting irritated, From now on I shall either ask questions or only use informatipn that can be backed up.

Sorry again,

Regards.

James

PS: I know you're all aware of the Thread Viperkeeper posted.....That was also similar stuff to this - But we have managed to sort it out now.


----------



## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

no offence but do you honestly think anyone is going to take you seriously now?


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

paulrimmer69 said:


> no offence but do you honestly think anyone is going to take you seriously now?


 
Well I do hope so.

I want to start keeping reptiles, and in time move to venomous.....But now the Venomous side is irrelevent.

I want to start working on getting a Vivarium set up, for a Corn or possibly a King snake. Mexican Black's look very nice animals


----------



## abandonallhope (Jun 19, 2009)

Mexican blacks might be a bit fiesty for a newb. Start with a nice placid corn.


----------



## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

It takes a Big man to apologise.......... and an even Bigger man to forgive.
correct me if I am wrong but is this guy 16, cut him some slack..I am sure it's a lesson learned.


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Apology accepted.

Enjoy learning and if you intend doing it professionally work hard and listen even harder.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

abandonallhope said:


> Mexican blacks might be a bit fiesty for a newb. Start with a nice placid corn.


 
I want something a little fiesty or agressive.

I want to practice handling with a hook....Getting to know when the animal is going into "You're peeing me off" mode. And building reaction time to avoid a bite. This will come into good practise for 10 years down the line when I decide to get my DWA Lisence.

I want to gain experience with a few species before I move to venomous....Learning the husbandry, basic behaviour and feeding techniques.


----------



## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> I want something a little fiesty or agressive.
> 
> I want to practice handling with a hook....Getting to know when the animal is going into "You're peeing me off" mode. And building reaction time to avoid a bite. This will come into good practise for 10 years down the line when I decide to get my DWA Lisence.
> 
> I want to gain experience with a few species before I move to venomous....Learning the husbandry, basic behaviour and feeding techniques.


 I have a striped Cali for sale which will try and eat you at every opportunity:lol2:


----------



## abandonallhope (Jun 19, 2009)

AZUK said:


> I have a striped Cali for sale which will try and eat you at every opportunity:lol2:


Cali's are big softies :lol2:
It's those dwarf boas you have to watch.


----------



## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

abandonallhope said:


> Cali's are big softies :lol2:
> It's those dwarf boas you have to watch.


 
True. but this one *dont half hang on *:whip:


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

AZUK said:


> It takes a Big man to apologise.......... and an even Bigger man to forgive.
> correct me if I am wrong but is this guy 16, cut him some slack..I am sure it's a lesson learned.


I agree : victory:


----------



## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

fair enough but bear this in mind, the quickest way to irritate people on here is answering questions that you obviously know nothing about, we can all go on google and look intelligent, theres nothing wrong with being inexperienced im only a beginner in the venomous hobby which is why i wouldnt answer any questions on here, there are some of the most experienced people in the hobby on here who are more than qualified to give advice, listen to them and dont try and run before you can walk, that was the advice given to me, i just hope after all this you do actually listen and forget about keeping remotely dangerous for a good while, have you thought about looking for jobs in pet shops in your area? that might be a good way of learning to look after animals before getting a collection of your own?


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

paulrimmer69 said:


> fair enough but bear this in mind, the quickest way to irritate people on here is answering questions that you obviously know nothing about, we can all go on google and look intelligent, theres nothing wrong with being inexperienced im only a beginner in the venomous hobby which is why i wouldnt answer any questions on here, there are some of the most experienced people in the hobby on here who are more than qualified to give advice, listen to them and dont try and run before you can walk, that was the advice given to me, i just hope after all this you do actually listen and forget about keeping remotely dangerous for a good while, have you thought about looking for jobs in pet shops in your area? that might be a good way of learning to look after animals before getting a collection of your own?


 
I also agree completely with what Paul says James. 

Although I dont think theres anything wrong with answering questions that you know the answers to and giving advice from your own experience, providing you have some experience, everybody is always learning thats the beauty of the hobby.


----------



## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

Good on you


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

mad martin said:


> Good on you


 
Pet Shops is one thing I've been thinking of for a while.

Mad Martin - Nuttie Natie is going for you're record....Think he can do it?


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

mad martin said:


> Good on you


 
Pet Shops is one thing I've been thinking of for a while.

Mad Martin - Nuttie Natie is going for you're record....Think he can do it?  121 Days with 40 Deadly Snakes


----------



## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

Records are made to be broken. 
I hope he does, because taking another bite so close to this recent one will kill him in all likelihood


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

mad martin said:


> Records are made to be broken.
> I hope he does, because taking another bite so close to this recent one will kill him in all likelihood


 
Yup, indeed.

Hats off to Natie


----------



## naja (Nov 5, 2009)

viperlover,

fair play for appologising, im sure most of the keepers on here know we can all say silly things when we are starting out. Unfortunatly you will still get some idiots who will give you grief but pay no attention. Read lots of books and listen to experianced people and you'll be sorted. 

Just walk it dont run it!


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

naja said:


> viperlover,
> 
> fair play for appologising, im sure most of the keepers on here know we can all say silly things when we are starting out. Unfortunatly you will still get some idiots who will give you grief but pay no attention. Read lots of books and listen to experianced people and you'll be sorted.
> 
> Just walk it dont run it!


 
Cheers Naja! By the way, Good Genus for an account name! 

The people who get irritated with me asking questions.....well I don't know. My hat is off to any reptile keeper. I respect the Reptile community and will continue to do so. Like I said....Inexperienced minds sometimes say things out of place. How many of you keepers out there.....Said something out of term or incorrect when you were learning? Lets be honest


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> How many of you keepers out there.....Said something out of term or incorrect when you were learning? Lets be honest


Nope.

I kept my trap shut for fear of sounding like a buffoon till I was good and learned


----------



## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Cheers Naja! By the way, Good Genus for an account name!
> 
> The people who get irritated with me asking questions.....well I don't know. My hat is off to any reptile keeper. I respect the Reptile community and will continue to do so. Like I said....Inexperienced minds sometimes say things out of place. How many of you keepers out there.....*Said something out of term or incorrect when you were learning? Lets be honest*


Maybe once or twice..... Still do! But not 40 times in a week

Now seriously go away and just read for a bit please.... otherwise hopefully you will become the first person banned just for being annoying.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> Nope.
> 
> I kept my trap shut for fear of sounding like a buffoon till I was good and learned


hahahaha (Y)


----------



## thetong6969 (Apr 20, 2009)

personally 
come on
he's 16 cut him some slack at least he's interested
i tried taking a 16 / 17 year old to the gym with me as being an ex powerlifter his mum thought he may of listened
how wrong was she
yes the op should get a nice snake like a corn(they vary in behavior anyway ive had some placid ones one being hugeee and some nasty ones and can still get used to the hook with them)
i beleive a hook to be a basic herpetological tool
and should used to at least get a viv/rub defensive animal out
i used one with a sharp albino and both dwarf burms i had(even tho they tamed perfectly well)
i have found that you "can" get attacked on rfuk by some members,everyone has a different way of putting things forward and text can come accross as nasty anyway when it is not meant to
this is a forum for like minded people some may want to remember this
i've dealt with reptiles since i was 6 or 7 prob 30 years in total but do not consider myself a proffessional
maybe just experienced a little,maybe more than some maybe less than others
at least the op is using the forum which is a good thing
just like most say i hope he doesn't run before he can walk,bu then i didnt think you could with dwa
even fwc most will sell only to experienced people and the like


----------



## hexem (May 14, 2009)

Ok here's some advise mate.

Get something because you want it, not because it's a stepping stone, or even a corn because people told you to get it, you may get bored with it and what's the point in having something that you are not passionate about and won't hold you're intrest.

Now this doesn't mean go buy a snake that will have a hissy fit everytime you go near the viv, just wait a while look around on this forum at what other people are keeping and read up on something that catches your eye and once you feel ready go for it...patience is vital.


----------



## naja (Nov 5, 2009)

viper lover

theres nothing wrong with being young and enthusiastic. If you were to get a corn then yes you will learn how to keep a snake but you will not learn about aggressive snakes. How about keeping a corn for a year or so then getting something like a radiated ratsnake and if you wana learn about hooking heavy bodied vipers then get yourself a little blood python. If you are ever in the Oxford area then you are welcome to come to my shop and ill show you my set up. Cus to be honest it doesnt seem like some of the so called 'big guns' wana give you the advice or guideance you need there to busy knocking you down.

Thats not like RFUK


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

naja said:


> viper lover
> 
> theres nothing wrong with being young and enthusiastic. If you were to get a corn then yes you will learn how to keep a snake but you will not learn about aggressive snakes. How about keeping a corn for a year or so then getting something like a radiated ratsnake and if you wana learn about hooking heavy bodied vipers then get yourself a little blood python. If you are ever in the Oxford area then you are welcome to come to my shop and ill show you my set up. Cus to be honest it doesnt seem like some of the so called 'big guns' wana give you the advice or guideance you need there to busy knocking you down.
> 
> Thats not like RFUK


 
Thanks a lot mate. 

I know....Ahh well

And Owzy....Rudeness doesn't get you anywhere!


----------



## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

Rudeness? Did you not send someone a profanty filled PM when you posted your crap first off?


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

StevetheSnake said:


> Rudeness? Did you not send someone a profanty filled PM when you posted your crap first off?


 
Because he was attemtping to make me look stupid!

But thats sorted.....Lets not re-sort the old trash from the new.


----------



## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

He wasn't trying to make you look stupid, you do a very good job of that already without having someone else to do it.


----------



## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Drop me out.

You PM someone all sorts of abuse, and by the way he wasn't trying to make you look stupid, he didn't need to, you did all the hard work for him. So too add to your list you are also a hypocrite for telling me rudeness is not needed.

As said, I have no problem with questions but at 16 I knew when I was irritating people & it was time to keep my mouth shut and listen for a bit (age is no excuse) & it is not like you are short of advise, some of the best have given it!

I think either you are a troll or you just enjoy the attention.

Naja - I know what you mean there are too many arguments on here but it gets irritating when you waste your time reading through that other thread & he does not appear to have taken much notice at all.


----------



## reef (Jan 4, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Because he was attemtping to make me look stupid!
> 
> But thats sorted.....Lets not re-sort the old trash from the new.



Didnt need to did he ,looks like you did ok yourself

(just noticed been said before ...doh..)


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Owzy said:


> Drop me out.
> 
> You PM someone all sorts of abuse, and by the way he wasn't trying to make you look stupid, he didn't need to, you did all the hard work for him. So too add to your list you are also a hypocrite for telling me rudeness is not needed.
> 
> ...


I've taken plenty of notice....


----------



## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

end of day i think ur just irritating and boring now. just stop posting and read and take in your advice given end of. You admit to being a "begineer" etc. so therefore take advice of people who arent. and stop annoying everyone. Even i think your looking stupid now!


----------



## moodyblue1969 (Jul 6, 2009)

james, you have absolutely no hands on experience with snakes.its great you know what you would like to do/achieve with your life.but please go back to the general snake section and learn the basics first. at the end of the day im sure myself and none of the guys on this section would like to think you have put yourself into a difficult corner with a dwa and ended up dead. leave these snakes to the specialists and start at the beginning. these guys didnt become experts overnight,it took years of dedication. the very fact you have continued with these dwa threads implies to me you are not mature enough to cope should a dire situation arise.there is no room for mistakes with these species of snakes


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> I want something a little fiesty or agressive.
> 
> I want to practice handling with a hook....Getting to know when the animal is going into "You're peeing me off" mode. And building reaction time to avoid a bite.


TBH, why start with something narky?

Start with a snake that you will find *enjoyable* to keep rather than one that you're always going to have to sit there and ask "how bad's the bite going to be this time?" There's always time after you learn the ins and outs of "how to keep a friendly snake" to start going for snakes that are fast, or wriggly, or nasty.

Building reaction time to avoid a bite makes me chuckle. My most recent drew-blood bite was from an Everglades Ratsnake male. I was holding him, and moved my hand too close to the female that a friend of mine was holding. Whack, and my hand was bleeding. Didn't see it coming, didn't have a chance to move. He was perfectly fine after that; he considered (insofar as a snake with a brain the size of a pea can think) that I'd been told that his girlfriend was off limits.

Sure, you've GOT to anticipate and see the bite coming when you're working with venomous - but then you won't be handling venomous snakes like you handle non-venomous ones. Even if you hook and tail a non-venomous snake, your knowledge that "this snake is essentially harmless" will affect HOW you manage it.


----------



## Richcymru (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok so this lads getting ahead of himself but at least he is enthusiastic and asking questions. I do agree that he should start out by keeping non venomous snakes and being 16 there is no way he will get the DWA license anyway. His questions may come across irritating, but there is nothing wrong with his enthusiasm. I was probably very similar when I was his age, and my enthusuiasm has led me to become part of a project on the systematics of african cobras. It sounds like this lad is doing a lot of dreaming about what species he wants to keep, but if he is asking for advice there is no need for us to be rude to him, just help him make some informed decisions.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Richcymru said:


> Ok so this lads getting ahead of himself but at least he is enthusiastic and asking questions. I do agree that he should start out by keeping non venomous snakes and being 16 there is no way he will get the DWA license anyway. His questions may come across irritating, but there is nothing wrong with his enthusiasm. I was probably very similar when I was his age, and my enthusuiasm has led me to become part of a project on the systematics of african cobras. It sounds like this lad is doing a lot of dreaming about what species he wants to keep, but if he is asking for advice there is no need for us to be rude to him, just help him make some informed decisions.


Thanks a lot for the advice mate...

Are you as such a Herpetologist? I am very interesting in this aspect of Science and would like to study, and perhaps work on projects like that of yours one day. I've heard from Dr. Wolfgang Wuster that a degree in Biology is a must for a lot of careers involving reptiles....Would I need to study anything else? A paticular interest is Viperidae but I also think Elapids are pretty cool animals.

What sort of project is it that involves African Cobras? Toxitity, Habbitats, Feeding or breeding? I'm very curious. Please PM me if you don't wish to discuss it on the forum! 

Cheers!


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

James, *Richcymru has already told you what the project is: “**Systematics of African Cobras”*. It is nothing to do with “Toxicity*, Habitats*, Feeding or breeding”.
Maybe this might help:http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FZOO%2FZOO259_04%2FS0952836902003333a.pdf&code=e8ad33cfb50211b715bc15f69c7fae16
(We now have these snakes here in Liverpool).

I can tell you are trying to read and learn as much as possible (well done), but you are constantly showing your very limited knowledge by coming out with silly mistakes. As others have said, continue to learn and ask questions and accept your place as a young novice, but don’t “try and tell your grandmother how to suck eggs”.

As regards finding work with Reptiles, it is difficult. For working with venomous snakes the opportunities rarely ever come, you need a lot of luck, to be in the right place at the right time AND you need to be the best person for the job (experience, common sense and ability). I get to meet so many young wanabes just like you, but I'm sorry to say few ever really make it.

*I have corrected your spelling


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

PDR said:


> James, *Richcymru has already told you what the project is: “**Systematics of African Cobras”*. It is nothing to do with “Toxicity*, Habitats*, Feeding or breeding”.
> Maybe this might help:http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FZOO%2FZOO259_04%2FS0952836902003333a.pdf&code=e8ad33cfb50211b715bc15f69c7fae16
> (We now have these snakes here in Liverpool).
> 
> ...


What is "Systematics?"

And the link appears to be unavailable. I will try again at home tonight.


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> What is "Systematics?"
> 
> And the link appears to be unavailable. I will try again at home tonight.


Ok, sorry, hopefully this version will work:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6357092/A-new-species-of-spitting-cobra-Naja-from-northeastern-Africa
Systematics is linked to Taxonomy, the classification of living things.


----------



## Richcymru (Nov 21, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Thanks a lot for the advice mate...
> 
> Are you as such a Herpetologist? I am very interesting in this aspect of Science and would like to study, and perhaps work on projects like that of yours one day. I've heard from Dr. Wolfgang Wuster that a degree in Biology is a must for a lot of careers involving reptiles....Would I need to study anything else? A paticular interest is Viperidae but I also think Elapids are pretty cool animals.
> 
> ...


Me a herpetologist?! Ha I wish. I am but a mere science student! The project I will be working on is actually supervised by Dr Wuster but dont go thinking that such projects mean you will be working with snakes. You will need to follow a path in biology as you will more than likely be looking at snake DNA than the snake itself! using molecular ecology methods such as PCR, DNA extraction, electrophoresis and then phylogenetic analysis etc etc. so make sure you can do lab work.


----------



## Richcymru (Nov 21, 2008)

PDR, are you doing a talk at bangor uni on the 21st nov?


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

those vemonous species are great... so many and so interesting.

it's very rewarding to know them and keep them... just have to be very careful... even the least venomous among them are very bad...

mistakes and carelessness are rarely forgiven...

but for the right type of keeper, it's safe and easy...

for the wrong personality... it's only a matter of time till their world gets rocked...

even those expert types... when they begin playing with their cobra or something... i just shake my head....

catching and handling them is one thing... some stuff i've seen experienced keepers do is just 'pushing' their luck in my opinion...

but it's all good... the experienced people know the deal...

mistakes?.... zero tolerance.

also... those squirrely species like many elapids... make me all kinds of nervous!:lol2:


there isn't much in the way of hots here where i am...


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Richcymru said:


> Me a herpetologist?! Ha I wish. I am but a mere science student! The project I will be working on is actually supervised by Dr Wuster but dont go thinking that such projects mean you will be working with snakes. You will need to follow a path in biology as you will more than likely be looking at snake DNA than the snake itself! using molecular ecology methods such as PCR, DNA extraction, electrophoresis and then phylogenetic analysis etc etc. so make sure you can do lab work.


 
I take it you are a Bangor University student?


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Getting to know when the animal is going into "You're peeing me off" mode. And building reaction time to avoid a bite.


That's just the thing, sometimes you simply can't read the signs and it comes out of the blue. If that happens with a hot snake then you could find yourself in ICU or worse. It's this concept of how much danger a DWA licensed snake possesses that you don't seem to grasp, and as a parent with a son your same age that worries me. 

For what its worth, I can't work out if your first post in this thread is a genuine apology or simply a way of getting more attention. The problem is that rather than post your apology and leave it at that, you continue to let it run and run, often going off on a tangent. 

I understand you have a lot of enthusiasm for the subject, and that's a good thing. But you do IMO lack a lot of maturity, and have an air of arrogance about you when you post, which must cause a lot of the irritation. For example you state you have taken on board the advice some very experienced keepers have given you, but appear not to heed that advice and go over and over the same ground, often contradicting facts that some very experienced and professional people have posted.

Often it's knowing when to post a comment and when simply to read it and move on. As others have said, its often better to input from your personal experience rather than from a book or DVD. If you haven't experienced it, or don't have the qualifications to back up your statement, then resist the urge to post.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Malc said:


> That's just the thing, sometimes you simply can't read the signs and it comes out of the blue. If that happens with a hot snake then you could find yourself in ICU or worse. It's this concept of how much danger a DWA licensed snake possesses that you don't seem to grasp, and as a parent with a son your same age that worries me.


 
I understand you have an assumption I am going to start off with DWA?

I have established thats a bad idea....And am not going down that route. I don't fancy being the guy in ICU a day after purchasing the animal.

I do have some idea of how dangerous these animals are...But like you said, I won't fully as of yet. I have never experienced one.


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> I understand you have an assumption I am going to start off with DWA?
> 
> I have established thats a bad idea....And am not going down that route. I don't fancy being the guy in ICU a day after purchasing the animal.


Glad to hear it, and well done for heading all the advice from the forum members on that subject 



ViperLover said:


> I do have some idea of how dangerous these animals are...But like you said, I won't fully as of yet. I have never experienced one.


It will happen one day. Just don't rush it.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Malc said:


> Glad to hear it, and well done for heading all the advice from the forum members on that subject
> 
> 
> 
> It will happen one day. Just don't rush it.


 
I sure hope so....

I just don't see the point in killing myself due to enthusiasm and an obsession with reptiles....I'm gonna take it slow, i've decided.


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Richcymru said:


> PDR, are you doing a talk at bangor uni on the 21st nov?


Yes, Si has put up a post giving details.


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Thanks a lot for the advice mate...
> 
> Are you as such a Herpetologist? *I am very interesting in this aspect of Science and would like to study, and perhaps work on projects like that of yours one day.* I've heard from Dr. Wolfgang Wuster that a degree in Biology is a must for a lot of *careers involving reptiles*....Would I need to study anything else? A paticular interest is Viperidae but I also think Elapids are pretty cool animals.
> 
> ...


Ok, just imagine for a moment that in a few years time you have managed to get some qualifications and would like to work with venomous snakes..... where are you going to apply to do some scientific research or find suitable work at a Zoo or Safari Park? It is really difficult to find such positions and you need to consider something else..... the internet is a wonderful source of information and forums such as this one are read by not only amateur / private keepers, but also a number of my friends & peers working in Zoos, Safari Parks and scientific establishments. In your current frame of mind and given your total lack of experience I would not allow you on our premises (let alone ever show you any handling techniques) as you would be a danger to yourself and those around you.... plus you would wear me out with all your questions..... and I’ve no doubt that Mark and Wolfgang would have similar reservations.

As they say, “first impressions count” and you have certainly made an impression here that in time may come back to haunt you.


----------



## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

come on now james maybe its time to back off a little? you have just been given what should be the final hint you need by one of the top men in the field, its got to the stage now where nobody on here is going to take you seriously and are "getting pissy with you" like you wrote on viperkeepers facebook page, just try and take a step back for a while and listen for a bit as to be quite honest your starting to come across as slightly obsessive, just remember in the future if you do decide to keep dwa you might just need help from some of the people who you are annoying


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Malc said:


> That's just the thing, sometimes you simply can't read the signs and it comes out of the blue. If that happens with a hot snake then you could find yourself in ICU or worse.


To be honest, it wouldn't even take it being a hot snake.

Imagine a new keeper with an adult boa or sub-adult Burmese python.

Imagine that keeper proudly showing the animal to a friend who (known or not) keeps pet rats or rabbits - and smells of them. Something like that could turn into a serious situation too.

I got a full-blown feeding bite from a five-foot Colombian rainbow boa because a friend made an error of judgement along those lines and I am REALLY thankful it was my HAND that Cal got. It was a painful lesson - several weeks of a very bruised hand and some minor long-term damage in my left ring finger where a tooth caught a nerve. But the lesson wasn't TOO expensive.


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

About time for young James to start listening!


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

PDR said:


> Ok, just imagine for a moment that in a few years time you have managed to get some qualifications and would like to work with venomous snakes..... where are you going to apply to do some scientific research or find suitable work at a Zoo or Safari Park? It is really difficult to find such positions and you need to consider something else..... the internet is a wonderful source of information and forums such as this one are read by not only amateur / private keepers, but also a number of my friends & peers working in Zoos, Safari Parks and scientific establishments. In your current frame of mind and given your total lack of experience I would not allow you on our premises (let alone ever show you any handling techniques) as you would be a danger to yourself and those around you.... plus you would wear me out with all your questions..... and I’ve no doubt that Mark and Wolfgang would have similar reservations.
> 
> As they say, “first impressions count” and you have certainly made an impression here that in time may come back to haunt you.





paulrimmer69 said:


> come on now james maybe its time to back off a little? you have just been given what should be the final hint you need by one of the top men in the field, its got to the stage now where nobody on here is going to take you seriously and are "getting pissy with you" like you wrote on viperkeepers facebook page, just try and take a step back for a while and listen for a bit as to be quite honest your starting to come across as slightly obsessive, just remember in the future if you do decide to keep dwa you might just need help from some of the people who you are annoying





slippery42 said:


> About time for young James to start listening!


Fair play to James, he has brought the top names in the field of venomous out to play... Never have I seen such esteemed people on one persons threads.... Thats an achievement... But I would let go now as well, as you will need these people in the future, no doubt about that.
Get over to the light side with the rest of us James, you got a lot of snake learning to do and we got girls over with us as well..... LOL
Seriously, you got at least two years before you can go anywhere near a venomous, so spend that time getting to know snakes in general, ones you can handle. You can still come over here to read and learn things, but you will need a good snake background before anyone will entertain taking you on as a trainee..... Plus, it's surprising how many venomous keepers you get to meet dealing with non venomous.... They like non venomous as well, believe it or not... LOL


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Fair play to James, he has brought the top names in the field of venomous out to play... Never have I seen such esteemed people on one persons threads.... Thats an achievement... But I would let go now as well, as you will need these people in the future, no doubt about that.
> Get over to the light side with the rest of us James, you got a lot of snake learning to do *and we got girls over with us as well*..... LOL
> Seriously, you got at least two years before you can go anywhere near a venomous, so spend that time getting to know snakes in general, ones you can handle. You can still come over here to read and learn things, but you will need a good snake background before anyone will entertain taking you on as a trainee..... Plus, it's surprising how many venomous keepers you get to meet dealing with non venomous.... They like non venomous as well, believe it or not... LOL


Doh, I’ve been looking in the wrong place then :gasp:


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Fair play to James, he has brought the top names in the field of venomous out to play... Never have I seen such esteemed people on one persons threads.... Thats an achievement... But I would let go now as well, as you will need these people in the future, no doubt about that.
> Get over to the light side with the rest of us James, you got a lot of snake learning to do and we got girls over with us as well..... LOL
> Seriously, you got at least two years before you can go anywhere near a venomous, so spend that time getting to know snakes in general, ones you can handle. You can still come over here to read and learn things, but you will need a good snake background before anyone will entertain taking you on as a trainee..... Plus, it's surprising how many venomous keepers you get to meet dealing with non venomous.... They like non venomous as well, believe it or not... LOL


:lol2::lol2::lol2:

Thats all very true....but he does kind of need to go to the snake section abit more, I mean its all well and good learning about your venomous snakes, but if you dont even no the basics of humidity,husbandry enrichment,feeding methods,thermal gradient,sloughing and so on then your going to struggle greatly.


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> To be honest, it wouldn't even take it being a hot snake.
> 
> Imagine a new keeper with an adult boa or sub-adult Burmese python.
> 
> Imagine that keeper proudly showing the animal to a friend who (known or not) keeps pet rats or rabbits - and smells of them. Something like that could turn into a serious situation too.


You are indeed so right. If you ignore the time I was nailed on a finger whilst handling a mates hatchling boa, I've been tagged once in my 26 years of keeping snakes (non-venomouse), and that was puerly because I dropped my guard, glanced at the TV and got tagged. Fortunately my royal hit and let go, but a tooth caught a vein in the wrist and it bleed a lot so looked really dramatic... the brusing was also painful for several weeks.... and this was from a 4 foot royal, I certainly wouldn't want to be tagged by an adult boa or burm.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> To be honest, it wouldn't even take it being a hot snake.
> 
> Imagine a new keeper with an adult boa or sub-adult Burmese python.
> 
> ...


NOW I bet that was painful....

Just imagine if that was a 5 ft Rattlesnake? The thought of it is scary...

How has the damage to your finger affected you? Movement? Feeling? Tender during the colder months?


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> How has the damage to your finger affected you? Movement? Feeling? Tender during the colder months?


I'll just make an additional answer to this as I have a similar thing.

I got caught by _*one tooth*_ of a male Jamaican Boa, he's a 5', 2kg animal. I was feeding him and the 24" tongs were apparently not enough when he struck for his first food after brumation and shot past the tongs and swiped my hand.
One single tooth, left me peeing with blood a T shaped incision and now a 2mm scar on the underside of my right index finger. The cut healed over very quickly as it was nothing big, it did however have a sharp pain on touch for about 6 months and is sensitive in the cold even now.

This was a bog standard stupid keeper error made by someone with 9 years experience at the time, involving a pretty modest sized non-venomous animal... 

Boy was my face red  incase you're interested I've received three bites in my time all of them this minor, all from Boids.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> I'll just make an additional answer to this as I have a similar thing.
> 
> I got caught by _*one tooth*_ of a male Jamaican Boa, he's a 5', 2kg animal. I was feeding him and the 24" tongs were apparently not enough when he struck for his first food after brumation and shot past the tongs and swiped my hand.
> One single tooth, left me peeing with blood a T shaped incision and now a 2mm scar on the underside of my right index finger. The cut healed over very quickly as it was nothing big, it did however have a sharp pain on touch for about 6 months and is sensitive in the cold even now.
> ...


It may embarrasing for you.....But what if it was a better day....the animal wouldve gone straight for the food? You never know...It may have not been your mistake...


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> NOW I bet that was painful....
> 
> Just imagine if that was a 5 ft Rattlesnake? The thought of it is scary...
> 
> How has the damage to your finger affected you? Movement? Feeling? Tender during the colder months?


But this is what we are all trying to get across to you. Venomous snakes are not toys, they can do a lot of damage to you (ask B.L.) and leave you with complications that can affect you for the rest of your life.
Not everyone is cut out for venomous; it takes a certain kind of individual to be successful / safe working with venomous species. You need at least some natural ability with snakes..... and at this point you have not even handled a harmless pet snake or joined a local reptile club. It is kind of like a Berber (Nomad) from the Sahara waking up one morning and deciding that he is going to become an Olympic swimmer.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

PDR said:


> But this is what we are all trying to get across to you. Venomous snakes are not toys, they can do a lot of damage to you (ask B.L.) and leave you with complications that can affect you for the rest of your life.
> Not everyone is cut out for venomous; it takes a certain kind of individual to be successful / safe working with venomous species. You need at least some natural ability with snakes..... and at this point you have not even handled a harmless pet snake or joined a local reptile club. It is kind of like a Berber (Nomad) from the Sahara waking up one morning and deciding that he is going to become an Olympic swimmer.


 
I want to get into the hobby of keeping snakes in general....and maybe move to venomous and hopefully work with venomous when I am experienced enough.

I was given a number to The Portsmouth Reptile and Amphibian society so I am going to call them. - Do you know of any other clubs/society's/communitys I can join or contact?


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> I want to get into the hobby of keeping snakes in general....and maybe move to venomous and hopefully work with venomous when I am experienced enough.
> 
> I was given a number to The Portsmouth Reptile and Amphibian society so I am going to call them. - Do you know of any other clubs/society's/communitys I can join or contact?


I think what PDR is trying to tell you is also not to just go out and get harmless snakes because you want to keep DWA ones when your more experinced. Sure you will need the experince BUT you also need that passion for snakes in general. 

You need to know what disinfectants are suitable, what substrates work best for speices,how you know the difference between a constipated snake and a natural bowel movement....these sound simple and are often over looked because its something you learn and gain as you go through the hobby. Alot of the times theres many alternative methods that all equal the same result, which is correct husbandry. You can be taught one way,but also you will find as you go on that you do things your way abit. This learning curve as to be done through your self from the bottom of the ranks.

Increasing humidity to a safe level without causeing bacterial growth might be simple to us but not to you as you havent done that yet, and its much easier to make mistakes with forgiving snakes.

what ever non venomous snake you decide on just make sure its one you want...dont get it for the sake of working up to venomous snakes


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

anytime a young person shows enthusiasm for anything positive or intellectual, no matter how misguided or unrealistic it may seem to seasoned people in the field... we should encourage it... i would assume that it is incumbent on any experienced hobbyist to help direct that raw enthusiasm in the proper and realistic direction... in other words, mentor a young person when the opportunity arises...

myself, when i was a young buck of sixteen or seventeen... i was as dumb as a bag of hammers... it would have been nice to have had the internet and RFUK back then...

an interest in anything positive by a young person should be encouraged and groomed... after all, they could either be playing that evil X-box 24/7 or out riding motorcycles and snorting oxycontin instead of researching and learning...

scolding does nothing of any use to anyone...: victory:

i like to take it easy on people with youthful exuberance myself...


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

wildlifewarrior said:


> I think what PDR is trying to tell you is also not to just go out and get harmless snakes because you want to keep DWA ones when your more experinced. Sure you will need the experince BUT you also need that passion for snakes in general.
> 
> You need to know what disinfectants are suitable, what substrates work best for speices,how you know the difference between a constipated snake and a natural bowel movement....these sound simple and are often over looked because its something you learn and gain as you go through the hobby. Alot of the times theres many alternative methods that all equal the same result, which is correct husbandry. You can be taught one way,but also you will find as you go on that you do things your way abit. This learning curve as to be done through your self from the bottom of the ranks.
> 
> ...


 
Some good points here that I strongly agree on...Thankyou.

I want prefferably to get a kingsnake....For some odd-reason I was facinated by these as a small child and still am now. My uncle had a cornsnake...He was un-seccessful and quite franktly big headed....He took for granted how sneaky the animals are and the snake escaped. I never had a chance to see the animal and to say the least was irritated that he never took precautions in making sure the vivarium was secure.

Something of which I have no right to comment on aqs I never kept the animal myself...But I kind of learnt from his mistake to ensure the animal's safe well-being....which is why I want to learn more by reading, advice and learning by keeping the animals myself...(Non DWA ofcourse as I'm just a newb)


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

HABU said:


> anytime a young person shows enthusiasm for anything positive or intellectual, no matter how misguided or unrealistic it may seem to seasoned people in the field... we should encourage it... i would assume that it is incumbent on any experienced hobbyist to help direct that raw enthusiasm in the proper and realistic direction... in other words, mentor a young person when the opportunity arises...
> 
> myself, when i was a young buck of sixteen or seventeen... i was as dumb as a bag of hammers... it would have been nice to have had the internet and RFUK back then...
> 
> ...


 
That evil Xbox.....Something I do....I want to try and get out more...lose a bit of weight. Chris Law advised this...Its a good idea, in 20 years down the line if I decide to keep DWA...I want nice, sharp reactions instead of being a clumsy glummox and end up getting nailed.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kingsnakes eh?... i'm after the fabled black king here where i live... the best spot for them... right in scioto county next to where the ohio and scioto rivers meet...

i'll get a few this year.. i just know it... i want to breed them since they aren't really on the market... i'll make a mint and release many into the wild... hopefully, if i can breed them sometime on down the road...




*Lampropeltis getula ******​ 
Black Kingsnake.​


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

HABU said:


> kingsnakes eh?... i'm after the fabled black king here where i live... the best spot for them... right in scioto county next to where the ohio and scioto rivers meet...
> 
> i'll get a few this year.. i just know it... i want to breed them since they aren't really on the market... i'll make a mint and release many into the wild... hopefully, if i can breed them sometime on down the road...
> 
> ...


The Black Kingsnake is what I am after!

I dunno where I may get ahold of one though.


----------



## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

booh! on corns - go for the king


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

This is what I would look for if I were you..








They are interesting, easyish to keep and stunning to look at...
IMO the best snake for a beginner as you won't tire of it....
And I know someone who sells them


----------



## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm sorry, but i wouldn't sell this guy a picture of a snake nevermind a real one. He'd try and attach fangs to it and will no doubt get bored/scared of it in no time.


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

StevetheSnake said:


> I'm sorry, but i wouldn't sell this guy a picture of a snake nevermind a real one. He'd try and attach fangs to it and will no doubt get bored/scared of it in no time.


He'll learn...... :2thumb:
Once he gets out of his bedroom and meets some real snakes, he'll have a change of mind, I hope..


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> He'll learn...... :2thumb:
> Once he gets out of his bedroom and meets some real snakes, he'll have a change of mind, I hope..


Meaning?


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> This is what I would look for if I were you..
> image
> They are interesting, easyish to keep and stunning to look at...
> IMO the best snake for a beginner as you won't tire of it....
> And I know someone who sells them


if its dangerous snakes he wants then he needs to get him self a wc scrub :whistling2:











EDIT. i was going to post one of the mangroves but i decided against it for the good of humanity


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Meaning?


think he means you need to play wither other peoples pythons: victory:


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

wildlifewarrior said:


> if its dangerous snakes he wants then he needs to get him self a wc scrub :whistling2:
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 
What animal is this?


----------



## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Viperlover, as people have mentioned before, the net is a wonderful place to discover so much about so many weird and wonderful species

If i were you id personally keep the venomous species idea in the back of your head as a possible dream for decades to come, for now i'd concentrate on the reality of keeping a more sensible species, after a while of keeping you may actually realise that you dont want venomous or even snakes in general

Ive been keeping reptiles for over 20years now and am still loving the vast amounts of species that are readily avaliable

Never personally seem the interest in keeping venomous myself as handling is one of the most rewarding thingsa about keeping snakes


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> What animal is this?


Morelia amethistina(sorong locality..AKA bar neck)


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> Meaning?


You said yourself.... 'I need to loose weight and get out more, and leave the xbox alone'



ViperLover said:


> What animal is this?


Scrub python, one of the more cuddly Morelia..



captaincaveman said:


> Viperlover, as people have mentioned before, the net is a wonderful place to discover so much about so many weird and wonderful species
> 
> If i were you id personally keep the venomous species idea in the back of your head as a possible dream for decades to come, for now i'd concentrate on the reality of keeping a more sensible species, after a while of keeping you may actually realise that you dont want venomous or even snakes in general
> 
> ...


Exactly..............


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> It may embarrasing for you.....But what if it was a better day....the animal wouldve gone straight for the food? You never know...It may have not been your mistake...


*slaps forehead...*

Everyone is trying to deliver messages to you with straight talk, advice or with anecdotes that sum it up.

The animal was interested in the food, but such was his haste and extreme hunger he overshot and got me by chance.

_Even a comparatively small, non-venomous snake that had no intention of getting a mouthful of me, did lasting damage with a single tooth._

I'll spell it out, what if that had been a venomous snake? One tooth would have been more than enough.




ViperLover said:


> ...*It may have not been your mistake*...


This is what you are going to learn, hopefully not the hard way.
When an error like a bite occurs with a captive snake in your care, it is always your mistake. 
I misjudged the strength of that individual's feeding response. 
It was entirely my mistake to use 24" tongs that I've always used for males of that species (which is generally a predictable feeder striking close to the body) when I have an entire rack of tools up to 5' long...

You'll come to learn that ability to see (and openly admit to) your own mistakes and examine them for lessons is invaluable. 

By the way, I wasn't embarrassed about it, embarrassment generally leads people to hide things, I wouldn't have just told everyone here about such an elementary mistake if I thought I was infallible  
Honesty is the key and there is no place for embarrassment nor self deception "maybe it was just unlucky and it wasn't my fault afterall..."

I once worked with someone who said they would be so embarrassed to be bitten by *insert venomous species here*, that if it happened he simply wouldn't tell anyone :gasp:
That's how you know someone isn't cut out for this.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> *I once worked with someone who said they would be so embarrassed to be bitten by *insert venomous species here*, that if it happened he simply wouldn't tell anyone* :gasp:
> That's how you know someone isn't cut out for this.


Then he'd be dead....What a fool! That made me chuckle...You meantioned your face was red...I assumed you were a little embrrrassed. My bad


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> Then he'd be dead....What a fool! That made me chuckle...You meantioned your face was red...I assumed you were a little embrrrassed. My bad


It's just a turn of phrase.
I was more shocked and amused by life's little wakeup calls


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> Then he'd be dead....


Not necessarily, I've heard of people who have taken elapid bites and rode out the symptoms without any medical help...
Not the greatest idea, but it does happen..,..


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> Not necessarily, I've heard of people who have taken elapid bites and rode out the symptoms without any medical help...
> Not the greatest idea, but it does happen..,..


 
WOW! I didnt think that was possible....What animals were they?


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Mamba..... ......


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> Mamba..... ......


 
Baby possibly?


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

What difference would that make??


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> What difference would that make??


 
Baby's have a smaller yeild??


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> Baby's have a smaller yeild??


Oh cool so at what age to they produce enough venom to do some damage??


----------



## kelboy (Feb 10, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Baby's have a smaller yeild??


But to my knowledge have not yet developed the control over that yield. Whereas an adult could decide to give dry bite or release "just a little", a neonate would give their full load in one bite.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> Oh cool so at what age to they produce enough venom to do some damage??


 
From the moment they are born to the moment they die, and even some time after they are dead if you're stupid enough to try it they can delivery a harmful or fatal bite obviously...

I just thought babys delivered less venom, so damage would not be AS bad.

Correct me if i'm wrong please


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> From the moment they are born to the moment they die, and even some time after they are dead if you're stupid enough to try it they can delivery a harmful or fatal bite obviously...
> 
> I just thought babys delivered less venom, so damage would not be AS bad.
> 
> Correct me if i'm wrong please


Less of a lethal substance is still lethal....:whistling2:
And as stated by you they are fully loaded from birth and as also stated cannot control the amount.... So IMO a bigger problem than an adult...


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> NOW I bet that was painful....


What I remember was looking down at the snake and thinking "Is throwing up on this snake going to make this situation better or worse?" I was told that when I looked up at my friend I'd gone green.

Still have blood stains on the carpet - was bleeding everywhere while Cal tried to make my hand stop breathing. 

It pretty much took all I had to keep my cool long enough to ask my friend to get some supplies from the other room so I could discourage Cal from grinding his teeth down some more, get him to let go, get him back into his viv, then wait for my friend to leave so I could go be violently sick.

I hate needles. Snakes have mouths full of them.



> Just imagine if that was a 5 ft Rattlesnake? The thought of it is scary...


Yes, a bite on the hand would be bad.

Can't help but remember my dad shouting and leaping backwards down a steep slope - "ACK! ACK! ACK!". He'd been climbing up, put his hand on a rock, pulled himself up and realised he'd put his hand down right next to a rattler... which was staring him in the face from a foot or so away. He leaped backwards, and nearly landed on top of another rattler he hadn't seen on the way up, went backwards again and barely missed ANOTHER one.

We were way out in the boonies that day - three or four hours' drive out.

Not as bad as my brother, though... he asked Dad to pull over so he could have a whiz by the side of the road. Started doing his business, heard a buzz. Looked down; he was giving a big diamondback a warm shower.



> How has the damage to your finger affected you? Movement? Feeling? Tender during the colder months?


It's mostly resolved itself now, but I did have some movement problems and the joint on that side was extremely sensitive to pressure.

For actual effects it was certainly the worst bite I've ever had.
For potential effects it would still have to be the_ C. viridis viridis_. Someone must have been looking out for me that day.


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

viperlover i think this is the only possiable "viper" you will likely ever own ...even then


----------



## reef (Jan 4, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Baby's have a smaller yeild??



WOW you really do know your stuff :whistling2:


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

reef said:


> WOW you really do know your stuff :whistling2:


 
Ok, buddy.....There is really no need to try and mock me, or take the :censor: outta me!

I am learning! I want to learn! I want to experience! I want to hear from the experienced!

I said it once, I will say it again.

MY APPOLOGIES for past posts......I dont think of the best ways to put things in most cases....Theres no need to mock me!


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Just imagine if that was a 5 ft Rattlesnake?


For FCUK sake.... that's the point.... not many of us can imagine what it would be like to be nailed by a venomous snake. Not only is there the physical issue of the trauma but the psychological aspect is one thing that would affect each individuals differently.

James... you started this thread off as an apology but now it's continuing with the same crap as your other posts.... making smart ass remarks to posts from members who deserve better respect, such as your reply to the post where a member got nailed by a feeding response, and speculating about the difference (if any) about being bitten by a baby or adult venomous snake. 

(Now I wasn't going to add the following as not being a keeper of hot snakes I don't feel qualified to add the comment... but what the heck It's my opinion)

......It doesn't matter.... I'm no expert, and from what I've read or from the programs on Discovery channel, it would seem that most venom is so potent that a tiny amount would be all that is required to kill. Having said that everyone has different metabolisms and will react to the actual venom differently... so individuals will be affected to a different degree.


James... can I suggest you quit this urge having to respond to every message posted, unless it is something that you have personally experienced, or have a genuine question. If you continue you will piss off all those that could allow you to take your interest to where you want to be in a few years. - People will start to ignore your posts, you'll not get the support you really need, and my gut feeling (irrespective of what you say) is that this is inevitable unless you change your ways


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Malc said:


> For FCUK sake.... that's the point.... not many of us can imagine what it would be like to be nailed by a venomous snake. Not only is there the physical issue of the trauma but the psychological aspect is one thing that would affect each individuals differently.


Yeah. I was bricking it every step of the way down the canyon I'd hiked and rock-scrambled up - was I making it worse by keeping my heart rate up but trying to get back to "civilisation" ... or would staying put, knowing that I wasn't on the main trail and it could be hours or *days* before someone found me, be the right choice?

And there was also "I can't afford a hospital stay. My health insurance won't pay for this. I can't afford the treatment. I'm just going to have to ride this out, even if it IS bad."

As I said, someone was looking out for me.


----------



## reef (Jan 4, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Ok, buddy.....There is really no need to try and mock me, or take the :censor: outta me!
> 
> 
> First of all i am not your Buddy ,I have children older than you >
> ...


Apologies are of no use if you continue to do and say things that you have apologised for ,you are lucky to have replies on this forum from some of the greatest Names in Herpetology ,an honour i would be proud of ,instead you have alienated anybody who may wish to help you in the future , I wish you good luck and will follow your career with interest .


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

reef said:


> Apologies are of no use if you continue to do and say things that you have apologised for ,you are lucky to have replies on this forum from some of the greatest Names in Herpetology ,an honour i would be proud of ,instead you have alienated anybody who may wish to help you in the future , I wish you good luck and will follow your career with interest .





Thankyou...

Sorry if my reply came back a little harshly...I just got irritated at the amount of people posting abuse, negetivity and mocking me.


----------



## gabbyboon (Nov 15, 2009)

wildlifewarrior said:


> viperlover i think this is the only possiable "viper" you will likely ever own ...even then
> 
> image


 
what snake is that


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Yeah. I was bricking it every step of the way down the canyon I'd hiked and rock-scrambled up - was I making it worse by keeping my heart rate up but trying to get back to "civilisation" ... or would staying put, knowing that I wasn't on the main trail and it could be hours or *days* before someone found me, be the right choice?
> 
> And there was also "I can't afford a hospital stay. My health insurance won't pay for this. I can't afford the treatment. I'm just going to have to ride this out, even if it IS bad."
> 
> As I said, someone was looking out for me.


Pleased to hear you are still with us... You also had the added factor of being out in the wilds... which must of played havoc with your emotions. I mean the UK is a small country and you would not be too far away from a hospital, and I assume if anti venom needed to be obtained it could be in a reasonable time frame. 

Personally I get freaked out when confronted with a stroppy cornsnake... quite an adrenalin rush, even though I know it possesses no danger. - and even after my 26 years of keeping snakes still have no desire to keep a hot one.. even though they are some of the most attractive snakes in the world.


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> I just got irritated at the amount of people posting abuse, negetivity and mocking me.


The problem is James that you bring it upon yourself because of what you post, and the way you post (whether that's intentional or not).

Over the past week, and probably close on 1000 posts everyone here has suggested in one way or another (politely or blunt and to the point) that you should simply get a corn snake and start experiencing the thrills and spills keeping it alive, and in doing resist the urge to post a reply to other post in this specialist forum. It's because you haven't yet heeded this advice, or continue with the obsession of venomous snakes that is pissing folk off, and results in negative or mocking replies


----------



## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

gabbyboon said:


> what snake is that


 viper boa: victory:


----------



## grumpyoldtrout (May 19, 2008)

This was from an 09 Reticulated Rat snake, she is only 18 inches long and goes like a rocket. I was spot cleaning and got a little to close to her










My little darling watching me. lol










Blink and you would miss the strike.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

*=







*








*=







*


:lol2::lol2::lol2:


----------



## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

reef said:


> you are lucky to have replies on this forum from some of the greatest Names in Herpetology ,an honour i would be proud of ,


OOOO PLEASE im flaterd but im not one of the greatest names.....god you really do know how to flatter people......:flrt::blush::gasp::Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

grumpyoldtrout said:


> This was from an 09 Reticulated Rat snake, she is only 18 inches long and goes like a rocket. I was spot cleaning and got a little to close to her


Radiateds are fantastic, aren't they? 

That's a beautiful photo illustrating the tooth and jaw design there, too


----------



## grumpyoldtrout (May 19, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Radiateds are fantastic, aren't they?
> 
> That's a beautiful photo illustrating the tooth and jaw design there, too


LOL Yes they are so quick,and seem frightened of nothing. 

She was in her moist hide last night and still managed to get me twice while I was changing her water and spot cleaning, Then she brought about 6 inches of her body out and gave me an open mouth display, it would have made a superb picture alas I was not quick enough.

Hope she calms down a bit, so I can handle her, even though I love her attitude, so I can help if she has stuck eyecaps or needs a visit to the vets.:2thumb:

The more I see of rat snakes the more I like them. :mf_dribble:


----------



## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

Them Viper Boa's are stunning WW, you have a fantastic collection of different species. What are the Viper boa's like to keep, I would be interested in readong up on them but i would probably find it very difficult to get hold of any here in Ireland :whip:


----------



## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

I wouldn't know about them being any harder to get here than over in GB mate.. they are lovely looking though.


----------



## RMG (Jun 10, 2007)

Doolittles get them in every now and again and supply some of the shops in Republic and up North but most of the time they're wc, not in great shape and dont last very long.


----------

