# Two raccoon dogs found wandering in Wales



## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Don't suppose anyone may know who they belong too?

RSPCA have got them, found wandering in Wales and assumed they have been dumped, be nice to find out they're just escapee's and reunited with their owners though, save more bad press for exotic keepers...


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

All these stories of these exotics escaping doesn't do us exotic keepers any good, it gives the anti's more ammo to use against us.


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

I know, that's why i'm hoping they have just escaped and someone might spot them and know where they're from


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

You'd think that if they had only escaped, the owners would have already informed the RSPCA to keep a look out for them.


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## naja-naja (Aug 26, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> You'd think that if they had only escaped, the owners would have already informed the RSPCA to keep a look out for them.


if, like quite a lot of exotics keepers, they didn't like the rspca, then they might not have.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

But if you cared about their loss, and wanted the best chance of recovering them, then the RSCPA would be the best way to go as they would be the first contact for the public.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> You'd think that if they had only escaped, the owners would have already informed the RSPCA to keep a look out for them.


I'm not an expert on animals like this... not sure what demand is like or anything. :S So maybe this is going to sound like a silly thing to say but...
If somebody is selfish and irresponsible enough to set these animals go (which is what you seemed to have hinted on) then you would have thought they would have rather cashed in and sold them on. Then again, I'm not sure what demand is like for these guys.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

elmthesofties said:


> I'm not an expert on animals like this... not sure what demand is like or anything. :S So maybe this is going to sound like a silly thing to say but...
> If somebody is selfish and irresponsible enough to set these animals go (which is what you seemed to have hinted on) then you would have thought they would have rather cashed in and sold them on. Then again, I'm not sure what demand is like for these guys.


Put it this way, there is a pair of them for sale on facebook at the mo for just £200!! People can't seem to give them away


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I know someone that lost some exotics a few weeks ago. Naturally, he got in touch with the press, the RSCPA, and fly-postered all around the area. He got them back.

However, someone he knows said to him: "Don't do anything. Pretend they're not yours and accept no responsibility". 

Just goes to show how despicable some people can be!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> Put it this way, there is a pair of them for sale on facebook at the mo for just £200!! People can't seem to give them away


Well, if anyone fancies giving *me* a couple...


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

wales is rather large, might help narrow the search for the owners down if the area is given


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

panther_87k said:


> wales is rather large, might help narrow the search for the owners down if the area is given


Brecon, mid wales
Raccoon Dogs Baffle Residents In Brecon, Mid Wales (VIDEO)


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> All these stories of these exotics escaping doesn't do us exotic keepers any good, it gives the anti's more ammo to use against us.


 
It does Colin. However blame lies squarely at the idiots who allowed them to escape. Thinking about secure housing before buying any animal and making sure it continues to remain secure after you have the animal really isn't that hard.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Mynki said:


> It does Colin. However blame lies squarely at the idiots who allowed them to escape. Thinking about secure housing before buying any animal and making sure it continues to remain secure after you have the animal really isn't that hard.


I think that "idiot" is a bit of a harsh term to use, seeing as sometimes it may just be a case of human error......something that every single one of us is guilty of in various situations in life. The thing is that these animals have got _a lot_ of time on their hands to really test the boundaries and find the weak point, and quite often they have untold strength that we underestimate.

I remember that when we made my coati enclosure, I thought it was absolutely bomb proof, but the tiniest little knot in a plank of wood can be worked into a hole with enough work. It took a few weeks of making improvements before I got it to be like Fort Knox as it is now. As such I have a nightly ritual, before I lock everything up out there, to check for little holes etc.

Even the very best zoos have breakouts from time to time.....to be honest, during my time at the zoo, I used to secretly quite enjoy the emergency rounding up if say a crane or something got out of the enclosure...broke up the day a bit!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

What the diference between a racoon and a racoon-dog?
There seem to be loads of racoon-dogs, skinks and the like for sale at the moment for, as mrcriss points out, really low prices?

Racoon dogs on here for just £150.

What's going on?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> What the diference between a racoon and a racoon-dog?
> There seem to be loads of racoon-dogs, skinks and the like for sale at the moment for, as mrcriss points out, really low prices?
> 
> Racoon dogs on here for just £150.
> ...


Raccoon dogs are a type of wild dog that just so happen to resemble raccoons, but aren't really related....they come from China and Japan.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Thanks
So, are they kept like say, my dogs or are they similar to a regular racoon in that enclosures and such like are needed.

Not that I'm getting one... Got enough on without adding more tonthe mix.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> Thanks
> So, are they kept like say, my dogs or are they similar to a regular racoon in that enclosures and such like are needed.
> 
> Not that I'm getting one... Got enough on without adding more tonthe mix.


Some keep them in an enclosure, some keep them in the house. They can get really soft and are also good at litter training.

The pricing of them is a bit confusing for me. This year, I've seen pups advertised from £150 - £900!!! Bit of a wide margin there!

I think a lot of people bought pairs last year, and as they have fairly large litters, the supply has far outweighed demand. Shame really, as I 'm getting mine next year, but could've picked up a right bargain if I'd have wanted them now!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Oh no!
Don't say that!
Lol
I may want one!

I'm sure i read sonewhere that they can do a lot of damage.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> Oh no!
> Don't say that!
> Lol
> I may want one!
> ...


Apparently, they're diggers. And as with most exotics, cupboard locks are essential! But they're not in the same destructive leagues as raccoons and coatis

There's a nice FB group dedicated to them.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/396907873692699/


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

I'd like a pair of ferrets but the smell factor is putting me off.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> I'd like a pair of ferrets but the smell factor is putting me off.


They do whiff somewhat....even neutered ones like mine. More bearable if they're kept outside though


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> I think that "idiot" is a bit of a harsh term to use, seeing as sometimes it may just be a case of human error......something that every single one of us is guilty of in various situations in life. The thing is that these animals have got _a lot_ of time on their hands to really test the boundaries and find the weak point, and quite often they have untold strength that we underestimate.
> 
> I remember that when we made my coati enclosure, I thought it was absolutely bomb proof, but the tiniest little knot in a plank of wood can be worked into a hole with enough work. It took a few weeks of making improvements before I got it to be like Fort Knox as it is now. As such I have a nightly ritual, before I lock everything up out there, to check for little holes etc.
> 
> Even the very best zoos have breakouts from time to time.....to be honest, during my time at the zoo, I used to secretly quite enjoy the emergency rounding up if say a crane or something got out of the enclosure...broke up the day a bit!


The larger issues surrounding escaped animals and invasive species is far more important than calling irresponsible or incompetent pet keepers idiots!

When you consider the damage invasives have done globally (partly down to irresponsible pet keepers) you can't really blame the antis for attacking our hobby.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Mynki said:


> The larger issues surrounding escaped animals and invasive species is far more important than calling irresponsible or incompetent pet keepers idiots!
> 
> When you consider the damage invasives have done globally (partly down to irresponsible pet keepers) you can't really blame the antis for attacking our hobby.


I don't deny that that's a real concern....it's very worrying. Especially when you factor in the reactions of the antis.

But if we pour scorn and derision on anyone that has an animal escape, then more people won't 'fess up when they do have a mishap, and will just deny all knowledge.....leading to many more like this sad situation in Wales (if indeed that is what happened), and exacerbating the problem with the antis.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> I don't deny that that's a real concern....it's very worrying. Especially when you factor in the reactions of the antis..


To be honest the antis are very much a secondary issue in my mind. The genuine damage an invasive can do is more important than antis using the problem in their propaganda. Racoon dogs are already a very real problem :-

Management of invasive Raccoon Dogs (Nyctereutes procyonoides) in the north-European countries - Svenska Jägareförbundet




mrcriss said:


> But if we pour scorn and derision on anyone that has an animal escape, then more people won't 'fess up when they do have a mishap, and will just deny all knowledge.....leading to many more like this sad situation in Wales (if indeed that is what happened), and exacerbating the problem with the antis.


People who don't "'fess up" are too irresposinle to keep animals anyway. They obviously don't care enough about its welbeing if they don't try every avenue to recover it. 

Many pet keepers know little about ecology. Even less understand the very real impact invasive species can have. I've even heard some morons say they think it would be cool to see exotic animals here in the UK! So if "pouring scorn" on those unable to house their animals correctly upsets a few characters, then so be it. There are bigger issues at stake than someone wanting to make themselves feel better by blaming human nature. Harsh, but true.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Mynki said:


> There are bigger issues at stake than someone wanting to make themselves feel better by blaming human nature. Harsh, but true.


You're missing the point. I just don't believe that getting all stroppy and bullish about it can be very constructive. But that's one of the key distinctions between us I guess.......vive la difference!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> You're missing the point. I just don't believe that getting all stroppy and bullish about it can be very constructive. But that's one of the key distinctions between us I guess.......vive la difference!


I understand your point entirely. But being directly involved in animal management relating to invasive species here in the UK I know that the issue is infinitely more important than random chat on a forum, and much more so than weak excuses blaming human nature.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Well, I certainly don't have any wish to get in another tussle with you about this, because frankly all that is really boring me now....especially as we both have the same opinion in this particular case, just different ways of expressing it.

I didn't say it was down to human nature though, but human error....there's a slight difference. The fact is, that a crucial screw may come loose or a couple of staples holding the mesh didn't quite hit true.....these things happen to the very best of us in all areas of life, or else all of our houses would stand forever and there'd never be any gas explosions. It doesn't make it right, but small human errors do occur and exotic animals are bloody experts in finding them! We strive for perfection, but we can't always reach it....not even you Mynki.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> Well, I certainly don't have any wish to get in another tussle with you about this, because frankly all that is really boring me now....especially as we both have the same opinion in this particular case, just different ways of expressing it.
> 
> I didn't say it was down to human nature though, but human error....there's a slight difference. The fact is, that a crucial screw may come loose or a couple of staples holding the mesh didn't quite hit true.....these things happen to the very best of us in all areas of life, or else all of our houses would stand forever and there'd never be any gas explosions. It doesn't make it right, but small human errors do occur and exotic animals are bloody experts in finding them! We strive for perfection, but we can't always reach it....not even you Mynki.


I think you're looking for an argument that doesn't exist.

I agree I don't strive for perfection. Just sensible security which comes with good planning, build quality and most important of all. testing. I've never lost an animal yet. Simples! 

So, tomorrow you have your animal walk and one of the animals somehow manages to escape. Who's resposibility is that? The owners? No one's it's just human error and couldn't be helped? Or something else?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

No, I think _it's you_ that's looking for the argument, as always. It's a shame really. But whatever.....I'm over it. Think what you like about me, or whatever I'm doing tomorrow, I honestly couldn't give a toss.

Thing is, I've always continued to do what I like without caring what some random antagonist thinks about it on a forum, and happily, I always will.

Take care.

*edit* and for the record, I've never lost an animal either


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> No, I think _it's you_ that's looking for the argument, as always. It's a shame really. But whatever.....I'm over it. Think what you like about me, or whatever I'm doing tomorrow, I honestly couldn't give a toss.
> 
> Thing is, I've always continued to do what I like without caring what some random antagonist thinks about it on a forum, and happily, I always will.
> 
> Take care.


Christopher, yet again it was you who chose to reply to my thread. I don't mind having the odd pet troll, I'm kind of flattered, but don't understand why you don't have better things to do. Every intelligent individual knows that as soon as people make personal commetns they've lost the argument. Only in this case there isn't one, despite your best efforts to start one, agsain!!!! :lol2:



mrcriss said:


> *edit* and for the record, I've never lost an animal either


Maybe, but I can understand your excuses. lol :-



mrcriss said:


> She's great (unless you try to touch her head). She escaped last night and I was woken at 3am by banging and crashing as she went marauding around the reptile room!


Seriously, the next time you consider making housing for another animal, drop me a PM I'll help advise you how to avoid these kind of problems. And avoid embarrasing incidents like these.

Take care yourself?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Ahhh Mynki Mynki Mynki....

See there you go again making wild assumptions about me and my animal care without actually asking first. A rudimentary error!
My reptile room is sealed and always locked. Escape is impossible! So if something gets out, it's no biggie as there's nothing in there that any animal can hurt itself on.

Must be hard living a life of paranoia....not something I have to do, happily. But what fun you must have tryin to chase me about and (however misguided) desperately pointing out my mistakes......bless yer!

Water off a ducks back, kiddo


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

I don't need to. You do such a good job yourself. xx


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

.......and I know you'll be thrilled to hear there was no drama at walking wild today. The day was a sparkling success! X


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> .......and I know you'll be thrilled to hear there was no drama at walking wild today. The day was a sparkling success! X


 
Why would it not be? xx


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Anyone care to give odds on how long the animals will survive in the tender care of the Animal Gestapo?

Raccoon Dogs have a stupendous appetite - one RFUK member, an experienced livestock keeper, bought 2 White Raccoon Dog pups, and lost both animals because he underestimated their requirements! One killed and partially ate its littermate, and died itself!


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

I would imagine their survival odds would be pretty good in the wild, they're hardy animals. But I'm no expert..


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

you cant say having an escaped exotic is bad ownership of exotic keepers cause peoples dogs escape all the time and alot of people let their cats run wild so i say to them get notted!!!


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