# Best Places to Buy Frozen Mice Online?



## AlienOwl (5 mo ago)

Where are some good places to buy frozen mice online? Somewhere where the mice are kept in a good amount of space with good living conditions would be great. Thanks!


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## CrazyFrog (Dec 19, 2021)

*'Somewhere where the mice are kept in a good amount of space with good living conditions would be great'*

Goodluck with that


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

CrazyFrog said:


> *'Somewhere where the mice are kept in a good amount of space with good living conditions would be great'*
> 
> Goodluck with that


  

Would those living conditions include a jacuzzi and spa ??


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

AlienOwl said:


> Where are some good places to buy frozen mice online?


 Google will throw up some results, or just use the search function above to locate all the recommendations the last time this question came up... which was only a few weeks ago !

As for the living conditions.... there is no such thing as free range rodents !!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

AlienOwl said:


> Where are some good places to buy frozen mice online? Somewhere where the mice are kept in a good amount of space with good living conditions would be great. Thanks!


Free range mice are non existent. All frozen mice, online or in a shop, are produced in the same way. Lab cages with 1 male to 4 or 5 females. Some litters are euthanized as pinks, others as fuzzies, the rest grown on to required sizes.
If you are worrying about buying frozen mice that lived a happy, enriched life then keeping reptiles is ot for you.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

This Topic has been brought up in some Facebook groups and should be discussed more in my opinion.

Should keeping pet snakes be contingent on minimal welfare provisions of feeder animals? 

Even disregarding moral / ethical issues associated with raising animals in battery cell environments, there is a good argument for enhancing welfare standards of feeder animals for the benefit of our pet snakes.
More exercised, stimulated rodent is going to be leaner and a healthier meal item than an overweight, fatty, understimulated equivalent.

One message posted that there was unlikely to be changes to animal welfare standards for rodents due to legislation on animal testing and research (presumably medical, pharmaceutical); even if this is the case, it does not stop the hobby from reviewing and improving its own standards and expectations.

As awareness and popular opinion shifts, it may well be that smaller groups of like minded keepers might support one another.

Currently, the most feasible suggestion I can make is for you to raise your own colony of rodents, thereby you can determine what quality of diet the feeders receive and what level of enrichment you provide them with.


Andy


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Andy, whilst I can see how having the choice of free range vs batched produce food for human consumption has its merits, I feel most of the reptile keepers would just see free range rodents as an expensive alternative to what's already on offer, and given the times we live in opt for the cheapest option, especially if the keeper has more than one animal to feed


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

It's a shame feeder rodents aren't kept in better conditions, but I'm not sure how it can be changed, especially with the massive rises in the cost of living?

Breeding your own could be an option, but are you prepared to kill them when the time comes?
Wild caught is the only true free range you'd get, but not only do you still have to kill them, but there's the risk of disease. 

I'd actually thought of wild ones recently as we live surrounded by farm fields and keep chickens, so get plenty of visiting rodents. Generally we use live traps near our chickens and in our loft. Rats are all culled, mice are only culled if found in loft or garage. If mice caught outside, we release them back into the fields. Disease is what stops me using them as feed.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

TSM Reptiles is currently the best place to buy rodents online.

Unfortunately the topic of welfare issues surrounding feeder rodents is just one of those weird little hypocrisies of reptile keeping; we strive for greater enrichment for our reptiles and genteelly ignore welfare conditions of the prey items used to feed them. We judge live feeding of rodents harshly yet prefer not to worry about what forms of euthanasia they undergo at the commercial breeders.(Huw Golledge, Scientific Director for UFAW has stated he doubts there is much of a difference between current euthanasia practices and feeding live to at least some snakes, in terms of welfare). Personally I am on the fence regarding live feeding but know several keepers who swear by it that raise their own rodents in better conditions than commercial breeders do, on better diets and who insist it is healthier for the snake (I am unsure about this though although there is some evidence hunting live prey is enriching and positively affects motor control).

The only real answer is if you are worried about welfare of prey items, the best solution would be to breed and raise them yourself in conditions that suit your welfare requirements and then euthanise them the way you see fit; the problem with this is that it is far more time consuming and smelly than keeping the reptiles themselves. There were some great articles in the 90s by the likes of Bob Applegate and Kim Caldwell detailing how they preferred to raise rodents using higher quality food and welfare conditions with the suggestion this had knock on benefits for the snakes. Those were both American keepers though; there are keepers in the UK that do it but they tend to keep their heads down a lot more due to the tendency of the average layman to judge.

Personally, I do not have time or space to breed and keep my own mice (and my wife would not allow it - she is fine with snakes but hates rodents). So I just try to forget about the conditions the rodents are kept in and make myself feel better thinking that I am more concerned about the welfare of animals destined to live 20+ years and in some cased more than the few weeks or months their prey will be alive. See? Hypocrisy.


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## AlienOwl (5 mo ago)

Thank you everyone for your replies. To be fair, I probably should have guessed that there weren't any 'free range mice' on sale or anything like that! I am not prepared to breed and raise my own mice, and certainly not kill them, so that won't be an option for me. I appreciate the comments though and will try to find somewhere online to buy them from.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> TSM Reptiles is currently the best place to buy rodents online.


 I concur.. Been using TSM for years now and never had a problem.

A lot of the comments above are very true. We receive the order from the supplier and place the neatly packed bags of mice and rats in our freezer with hardly a thought of what kind of life they have had. Or despite the company breeding them following all the guidelines and requirements, did the rodents have a pain free death. But then you simply look on this as farming. The mice and rats are reared to feed other animals, much the same way as pigs are reared to provide us with our bacon or sausages if you are someone who has a preference to eating meat (and I'm not going to take this thread off topic by discussing food options for humans). Granted rodent production is more akin to battery farming than free range, but that may be due to ease of management and stock control. Of the companies I've visited the cages used are quite large for the half dozen females, and do not reflect the old images of battery faring of decades past.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

When I had my large collection, I never defrosted enough mice for a feeding day, I always thawed out less mice and rats than were needed. This was because I hated throwing away mice that had not been eaten. Ultimately it was a living creature and was bred for the sole purpose of being eaten by something else. What a waste when it just gets binned. So I thawed out less than the number needed, so any refusals could simply be used by the next snake. If I ran out, I would just thaw out some extras. I would always start with the snakes that had a tenancy to be difficult first, leaving the living rubbish bins til last. That way, if I did have to thaw more out, I knew they would be eaten.
Just my little contribution to being ethical around feeding one animal to another.


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## R Wall (4 mo ago)

Refreshing conversation started. It's cool to see so many people thinking carefully about the ethicallity of their feeders. I honestly hadn't thought about this issue eventhough I don't eat meat myself for the very same ethical reasons. Thanks for starting me thinking.


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## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

i will echo the TSM sentiment. been doing fine by me, and i love the mixed bags. 

as far as ethics go, i intend to breed my own mice at some point. i havent decided on how best to do it as yet. currently thinking a large outdoor set up. i really like mice and have wanted to keep them for years so if i can combine function and enjoyment then great. i am not quite settled on the best method yet though. 
i dont personally have any problems with breeding my own feeders. its not for everyone though, and if its not something you can handle then you will always have to accept someone else's ethics. its always a trade.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

TSM or Ridgeway Frozen are the best frozen suppliers in UK in my experience.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have previously bred my own mice, just 4 small lab cages in a shed. It was more for easy access to live pinks for hatchlings refusing defrost. It's time consuming for a start. In all honesty, buying in bulk from somewhere like TSM is not only more convenient but also cheaper in the long run when you factor in bedding and food for the mice


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