# The Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles



## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

Hello All,

The Indian River Reptile Zoo now has an exciting new series on the safe handling of venomous reptiles. We would like to encourage all keepers (hot or not) to watch these episodes. There will be new episodes released often. In this series we will be covering all aspects of keeping venomous reptiles. We will be showing how to service an enclosure, how to take blood, how to use a snake hook, and many other topics. Below are the first 4 episodes. 

Episode 1

YouTube - Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles, Dendroaspis polylepis / Black mamba Episode One

Episode 2 part 1

YouTube - Handling of Reptiles Episode Two Part # 1

Episode 2 part 2

YouTube - Handling of Reptiles Episode Two Part # 2

Episode 3

YouTube - Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles Episode Three

Episode 4

YouTube - Handling of Reptiles Episode Four

We hope you find the episodes to be educational and informative. If you have any questions please e-mail us at [email protected]. Also, please subscribe the channel and visit us at The Indian River Reptile Zoo. Thank you all in advance,

Joe Puglisi


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## Moglet (Feb 26, 2009)

there are safe ways to handle venomous reptiles?


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

*Not really*

We have tried to go over the safest possible ways to handle a venomous snake with tools. We would never suggest free handling a venomous reptile. If you watch the videos you will understand. Thanks,

Joe


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## Freeman (Jul 20, 2009)

Moglet said:


> there are safe ways to handle venomous reptiles?


 
Everyone knows that by applying the correct amount of pressure..... to the back of the head...... with a house brick......


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## iajo (Sep 16, 2008)

i voted no to useful as i dont own venomous and dont intend too. We only have adders in uk that are venomous and they are illusive so not often seen. Even if i did see i would choose not to handle and disturb them. 

On a plus side entertainment value seeing venomous snakes etc i would probably continue watching and they may be very useful for some. Thanks for posting them


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

iajo said:


> i voted no to useful as i dont own venomous and dont intend too. We only have adders in uk that are venomous and they are illusive so not often seen. Even if i did see i would choose not to handle and disturb them.
> 
> On a plus side entertainment value seeing venomous snakes etc i would probably continue watching and they may be very useful for some. Thanks for posting them


its illegal to disturb them in the uk i believe


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## jack_rep (Sep 11, 2008)

I think they show a realistic light onto hot handling. They demonstrate that in servicing these animals its not going to be as much fun as it appears when you see the likes of the late steve irwine dancing around with a black mamba by its tail. Good thing to check out if you are considering getting into hots.


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## iajo (Sep 16, 2008)

RandomDan said:


> its illegal to disturb them in the uk i believe


that would be one of those unenforceable laws. They live very near my house in the middle of nowhere, no one would know what i do/dont do to them. Fox hunting is illegal and that still goes on a lot around here and that is much better publicised than adder bothering lol. Still i share the sentiment and choose to leave them be.


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

*Thank you for you feedback so far!!*

Sofar your feedback has been a great help. Feel free to tell us some future topics you would like us to cover. These videos are great for anybody, not just hot keepers. Anybody who owns or handles a snake should watch these videos. Thanks again,

Joe Puglisi
Indian River Reptile Zoo


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## Blanny (Aug 14, 2009)

I only watched the first video but here's what I took away from it:

1. Do you remember an old black and white film where a man gets a hand transplant and later finds out that the donor was a strangle killer and the hands try to kill him? Well it looks like the same thing has happened to the presenter of this video, which is why he has to constantly restrain it with his other hand.

2. He doesn't handle a damned thing. He just shows us his fort knox of a vivarium, and takes his sweet time doing so.


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## ltbooth (May 3, 2008)

cant watch the first one as it says its private


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

The first video is back up. We will be adding more on wednesday. Thank you all for viewing.


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

Just started watching the first video, the video quality is very poor and makes reading the writing at the start a bit of a pain and the guy needs to relax when he's talking to the camera at the start.

Good video though :2thumb:.


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## Stavros88 (Dec 6, 2008)

Interesting vids, good stuff


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

Episode 5 is now up. How to bag a snake.


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

*New Episodes*

Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles Episode Six
YouTube - Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles Episode Six

You must watch this video
YouTube - Must Watch!! Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles

Thank You


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## ian kerr (May 12, 2006)

theres a SAFE way of handling venomoids!!!!!!!


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

Episode 7 just up. 
YouTube - Safe Handling of Venomous Reptiles Episode 7


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

I have now watched all 7 videos and I must commend you on your efforts to try and show people how to work safely with venomous species. I see so many u-tube videos where novices are doing stupid things and it is only down to sheer luck that they are not bitten.

There is one aspect of your techniques that I would like to question. This is in regard to using the plastic storage buckets/tubs. 

In episode two, part #2 we see your assistant lowering the snake into the bucket then using the hook to place on the lid, reverse the hook and use the butt end to hold the lid in place *while she uses her hands* to snap the clips closed. I consider this a perfectly safe and practical method of working. What I would like to know is why you do not simply reverse the procedure when it comes to taking off the lid? Using the butt end of the hook to hold the lid down while releasing the clips *by hand*. Surely there is no difference in the level of risk between closing/ securing / releasing the clips/ opening the lid?

I do not see any real benefit using a hook to whack open the lid clips. But I do see a problem with this method and that is the possible stress caused to the animal inside the bucket. Have you tried placing your ear to an empty bucket with the lid clipped on and then hit it with the hook? If you have you will probably know that the noise / shock is quite loud and uncomfortable for any creature housed inside (I tested the noise level with my ear on an empty bucket this morning, not nice). If a member of the public where to bang on the front of a vivarium I’m sure you would be out there telling them of as fast as you could, yet I think you are subjecting the snake to similar levels of stress using this “clip whacking” method.
Other than that minor criticism I think you are doing a grand job.:no1:

I’ve just noticed that you are a new member to this forum (Welcome) so I guess it is only fair to give you a bit of background info so you know where I am coming from:
I have over 40 years experience with snakes and other reptiles. 30 years working with venomous/dangerous reptiles, along with some arachnids and toxic marine creatures. 14 years in a major British zoo (senior reptile keeper) and 17 years as the Herpetologist for a world renowned venom research unit, maintaining one of the largest venomous snake collections in Europe. I do teach a venomous handling & husbandry course designed and set up by me for the Home Office (British Government) where I teach scientists, field researchers and also zoo and safari park staff as required. So I do appreciate what is involved and what you are trying to do.

Regards,
Paul


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## Stavros88 (Dec 6, 2008)

PDR said:


> Have you tried placing your ear to an empty bucket with the lid clipped on and then hit it with the hook? If you have you will probably know that the noise / shock is quite loud and uncomfortable for any creature housed inside *(I tested the noise level with my ear on an empty bucket this morning, not nice)*. If a member of the public where to bang on the front of a vivarium I’m sure you would be out there telling them of as fast as you could, yet I think you are subjecting the snake to similar levels of stress using this “clip whacking” method.


Snakes dont have ears :Na_Na_Na_Na: The vibrations are another thing however, don't know how badly these would affect the snake. Also another point with the "whacking" method: the tubs don't look super-heavy and could be knocked over by a misplaced whack, spilling an angry snake onto the floor... bad times


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Stavros88 said:


> *Snakes dont have ears* :Na_Na_Na_Na: The vibrations are another thing however, don't know how badly these would affect the snake. Also another point with the "whacking" method: the tubs don't look super-heavy and could be knocked over by a misplaced whack, spilling an angry snake onto the floor... bad times


That may be true but snakes aren’t deaf. They can hear sounds within a certain range. What surprised me with my little experiment this morning was not the volume of the sound (which was quite loud) but rather the unpleasant shock wave.


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## joephobia (Jan 9, 2010)

@Paul

Thank you for your reply and thank you for watching all 7 videos. 

At the zoo we do not normally use the practice of whacking the clips with our hooks. The person in that video was a volunteer and we generally have the people whack the clips off with their hooks to gain practice with the hooks themselves. Normally we have buckets with plexiglass lids so there is no banging the clips off at all. I'll post a pic later. If a staff were to have to use those buckets, they have enough experience using hooks that the noise that would be created by whacking the clips off would be same as using our hands. 

Also, when we train federal wildlife officers, we do not use buckets at all. We use the bagging system. We used the bucket as an example as we do not think that the majority of people would buy plexiglass, bolts and padlocks to for this procedure. 

As for the worry of tipping over the buckets, the snakes contained in the video that is being referred to, they are non-venomous. We were just trying to express the value of remaining as far away from the holding container as possible. 

Thank you for your interest and we will post a picture of the bucket with the plexiglass shortly. 

Joe Puglisi
The Indian River Reptile Zoo


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Good thread, However I think it's due a move to the 'DWA Species' forum.


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

joephobia said:


> Hello All,
> 
> The Indian River Reptile Zoo now has an exciting new series on the safe handling of venomous reptiles. We would like to encourage all keepers (hot or not) to watch these episodes. There will be new episodes released often. In this series we will be covering all aspects of keeping venomous reptiles. We will be showing how to service an enclosure, how to take blood, how to use a snake hook, and many other topics. Below are the first 4 episodes.
> 
> ...


very good indeed, however the vid quality is crap......but the girl that helps in episode two is hot, so you are forgiven :lol2:


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

I have just watched all seven videos, and I have tyo say that have helped me learn a great deal. Working with venomous reptiles is my dream job, and before I go about doing so I need to learn from professionals such as Bry and many others. Thankyou for these videos, they are spot on!

Although, in agreement with Paul...I do feel the banging is un-nesecary. I, too have just tried this, and the results I got were enough to make me freak out....So what would that do to a snake that relies solely on vibrations and shock waves to "hear"?


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. I do know the sort of challenges involved in trying to teach people how to handle venomous snakes in the safest way possible. And also that as novices gain experience, techniques can be adapted and yet still maintain a high level of safety.


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## baba o'riley (Oct 17, 2009)

YouTube - Cobra Bite Ryan Guinea Pig !

I'm a bit concerned by this vid, first that you would rent a venomoid purely to provoke it to bite. (by scenting yourself with rats if I understand correctly)

And secondly that mixed in among all the vids about the safe handling of hots you have a vid of delibrately provoking a cobra to bite you.
It just doesn't make sense.

Oh, I also think mutilating animals so they can be rented out to make a quick buck is really wrong.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

How can anybody who keeps venomous snakes relate to the vidoes by any means of guidense or safe handleing? I took nothing away from them. What happens when you need to get hand-on? You can shy away and try to use trap boxes as much as possible, but eventualy there comes a time when you need to get hands-on with your venomous snake. If keepers are not confident dealing with their animals hands-on, I don’t think they should keep them – everything seems so long winded, it would take 20 minuted to change a water bowel if I used your methods.

99% of venomous keepers tail elapids and many will tail large vipers, this dose not make them poor handlers.

Cheers,

Dave


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

This is just my opinion,

Firstly, on your mamba video, what do you do if the snake decides it doesn't want to eat? How do you move it from one side to the other then?
Secondly, how often do you feed? If you are feeding a schedule suited to that mamba, its grossly overfed.

Good job though


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

I only watched the first video but i have to say considering the amount of enought you have go to, to make sure every aspect is as safe as possiable for dealing with the mamba, i notice you left the door to the venomous snake room wide open.

On another note about that video that was posted about people getting biten by a ETB and venomoid, i found it greatly disturbing. Espically with the emerald tree boa due to how delicate snakes they are,all you needed was one of those snakes teeth to break off(and lets be honest there so huge its rather easy to happen) and then bacterial infection can spread. This would of course then result in stomatitis and non feeding. So treating such a delicate snake like a ETB daily via oral treatment would put the snake under great stress. I just dont think it sends out the correct message


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

Im not keen on the 'Must Watch' epidode, who is that guy to tell people they shouldn’t be keeping venomous species if they get bored of watching his videos?! He also says that only people extracting venom should ‘handle’ their snakes, clearly stating “Most of us have NO REASON to handle our venomous snakes unless we are doing a job similar to Jims”. There will always be times when you have to be hands on with the snakes you keep. I currently have arboreal vipers that require assist feeding, a King Cobra that is on a course of wormer, and I get the (very) occasional eye-cap left on. All requiring me to be hands on.

The videos are also showing methods that are often not pratical in the private keepers setting. I know of only 2 private venomous snake keepers here in the UK that use cages that have dividers built into their setups. 

Like Dave, I also use the hook and tail method for all the elapids I keep. There are several ways to work with venomous snakes safely, and it comes down to what you are comfortable with doing. The guy in the video is making it out like his way is the ONLY way, which is absolutely not true. 

cheers, Tom


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## Lamprophis (Jun 12, 2008)

I voted no as there are simply better more time efficient and less long winded ways of doing things. I also disagree with the "must watch" video, "when you think you know it all, is when you don't" - a true statement, but suggesting that by not watching your videos people will be at a loss and shouldn't keep venomous is a very bold statement indeed! I learn from everyone - and from that statement alone I've learnt that I won't be watching anymore. I also think that such videos posted up on youtube could possibly lead to a number of people thinking that they can be "self taught" as they have studied your videos and decided it doesn't look that hard - when we all know there is no substitute for hands on experience.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

i thought it was quite interesting to see how handling and husbandry tecniques vary from private ownership to those in a public exhibition, obviously all sorts of health and safety regulations must be in force to protect employees and the public which i would imagine is why they are so long winded, as much as i dont think these videos would particularly help an experienced private keeper it is good what you are doing trying to keep people safe so you deserve credit there, like a few people have said maybe if you change some of the wording to" this is how we handle venomous reptiles" you mite get a better response, like i sed though well done


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

it was ok to watch these videos but i dont think i learned anything.
private keeping and zoo keeping are a little different. private keepers know there animals proberbly a bit better than an employee of a zoo they will get to know any idiosyncrasies the animals they keep have and adapt handling to it, with elapids tailing and a hook is in my opinion far better for controlling the snake, I dont know it all and there proberbly isnt a keeper who does we are constantly learning which is the great thing about the hobby


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> very good indeed, however the vid quality is crap......but the girl that helps in episode two is hot, so you are forgiven :lol2:


:mf_dribble:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

I liked the videos but am a little surprised at the low quality, shame really!


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

mrcarlxx said:


> very good indeed, however the vid quality is crap......but the girl that helps in episode two is hot, so you are forgiven :lol2:


agreed, id free handle her anyday!:flrt:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> agreed, id free handle her anyday!:flrt:


Dirty boy!


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Things have certainly changed in the 17 years since I last worked in a major British Zoo. They now have a zero handling policy and are constrained by strict protocols.

I guess I have more freedom than many people working at a professional level with venomous snakes as I am required to extract venom. I do work under a comprehensive code of practise and I am expected by my employer (LSTM) to work in a safe manner. However the code of practise that I inherited 17 years ago was already good and has been tweaked and refined since to suit exactly the way I do things. 

There are techniques that I use that would not be suitable for a novice, but given my skill level, I can use them and still maintain an acceptably high level of safety. 
As regards speed, the work load can vary each day but I usually work at a fairly fast pace, because otherwise I’d just never get everything done each day.


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