# Big cats britain



## jambos reptiles (Dec 28, 2012)

I've herd lots of story's and watched a few documentary s on wild big casts in brittian but do any of you guys acctualy believe this


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I do, personally I don't see why not. On top of that I do hold the belief that I saw one once as a child but well, people are quick to take the mick or suggest what it was when it clearly wasn't :roll: So I don't really give details about that one anymore.
I've also been up into some woods with a friend after his dad found large chunks of bloody wool in his sheep field. We found a carcass quite far in, bones and wool were all that was left although it could well have been a feral dog :2thumb:

But yes, I do believe that there may be a small handful eeking out and existence someplace remote.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I believe there are big cats, mainly Leopards, wild in Britain. Their territories are enormous, & they patrol them often, so they are rarely seen in the same area at regular intervals. They will live off deer, sheep (both of which have been found half eaten up trees), rabbits, pheasants, foxes, etc.


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## cokacola (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't believe a word of it.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

I think the problem is that some people are so badly educated that it's difficult to find out who actually KNOWS their stuff. I am pretty sure that there ARE big cats in Britain, but probably not in the quantity or variety that some people claim. 

Lara the Lynx
"A member of the public had seen an animal sitting on the wall of her back garden, which she initially though was a leopard, as it had a spotted coat."
Maybe she didn't get a good look, and in this case she WAS right that it was a wild animal, but I don't know how anyone can confuse a leopard with a lynx.

A year or two ago, several schools were shut down in my area because of several sightings of a snow leopard. The local secretary saw it, too.
...it was a plain ol' cat. It wasn't a small cat, but it wasn't some wild beast. It looked like an oriental longhair to me.

When you get people like that reporting big cat sightings, it's difficult to take any of them seriously, so I think the whole idea has been made into a joke. I'm certain that there must be SOME out there, though.


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## manc (Nov 21, 2006)

Leopards are the most discreet animals ever, they distrust and actively avoid humans, to the extent that they are rarely spotted even in areas where we know they exist. 

Its also known that private collectors had big cats which were released into the country side when laws about ownership were introduced. 

Add the two facts together and its perfectly possible.


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## jambos reptiles (Dec 28, 2012)

i read in the news about a year ago that there was a leopard carcus found in scotland somewere but if there is big cats in brittian they would need to be few and far between


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## dave1980 (Jul 14, 2010)

i believe there use to be big cats in the wild and as a child witnessed it myself along with a few of my cousins and sister on the north yorkshire moors. We got less than 10 feet away from him and think if i was on my own i wouldn't be here now as we disturbed him feeding on a rabbit! At the time all we could describe it as was a massive black cat with big teeth lol but now know it was a black panther. as drayvan says its not something you tell people as they don't believe a word lol


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## cpu1 (Dec 22, 2012)

My Grandad and his brother experienced a big cat in Devon some years back. It was bitter cold in the winter, and pitch black. They parked up in a rural place (they used to go ghost hunting) and started to walk away from the car. They both felt uneasy, but were both too stubborn to admit this to the other person. Eventually my Grandads brother said he was going to get a better torch from the car and slowly started to walk back. It wasn't long before they were both charging towards the car. Then all of a sudden from the tree above the car something really heavy jumped on top of the car, leaving a huge dent. It then jumped off the car, and ran away. They only saw a little bit of it when it jumped off the car, but it had black fur and was the shape of a big cat with the curl at the end of the long tail. My Grandad reckons they wouldn't normally go for humans, but being winter they were struggling to find food, and were desperate enough to go for them. My Grandad researched about it afterwards, and less than a month before all these sheep had been killed by the neck only a few miles away from their sighting. After this, they were determined to find it again but never did.

On a side note, but still a similar topic, my Grandad and his other brother (again, many years ago) were hunting on private land when they saw in the distance what seemed to be two German Shepherds charging towards them. Obviously thinking they were guard dogs, they got ready to climb a tree or try and defend themselves. As they got closer, they seemed much bigger than German Shepherds, until they both realised they were wolves (they think timber wolves now.) The wolves looked at them, but just carried on running past them. 

When the laws changed about exotic pets, there were always going to be some people who would rather have them in the wild than killed instead. This is probably the result of that.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

I once saw a sheep that had been allegedly killed by a big cat, it was torn open at the side like you see in wildlife docs with the carcass pretty much emptied of flesh. I'm no expert but the farmer said he'd never seen anything like it in his 50+ years of farming and it was hard to imagine a fox or whatever managing it.
It was at the same time as there had been a few sightings around my area (ceredigion) and apparently a fair few animals had been killed in the same manner.
Personally, I was fairly convinced at the time, less sure now, but knowing the reclusiveness of these animals, a leopard can be invisible in a fairly small zoo enclosure for a long while, and I reckon could easily hide in the rural areas, so it's definitely not impossible.


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

cokacola said:


> I don't believe a word of it.


Wohic and I have seen one from about eight foot at Sherborne in Dorset.


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## harry136 (Aug 2, 2012)

The eurasian lynx was once native in this country, apparently it was hunted to extinction here, however i dont believe that for a minute as they inhabited the highlands of Scotland, i personally believe a small breeding population survived in the remote highlands. Having looked into a few sightings, it seems that the large leopard/ panther sightings tend to be from the south and the lynx sightings , the north! :whistling2:


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

harry136 said:


> The eurasian lynx was once native in this country, apparently it was hunted to extinction here, however i dont believe that for a minute as they inhabited the highlands of Scotland, i personally believe a small breeding population survived in the remote highlands. Having looked into a few sightings, it seems that the large leopard/ panther sightings tend to be from the south and the lynx sightings , the north! :whistling2:


 
I've never seen a "black panther" but I know a pair of game keepers who didn't like to talk about an experience with one, and I have seen a lynx (the same one I'd guess from studying their habits) a couple of times in the distance at home. I'm from stupidly far north though, and to mention it where I'm originally from is to recieve a cuff round the ear from the local deer stalker and a glare from your grandfather.
I have no doubt they're around, but we don't like to talk about them much in the north. I've learned to take our pair of Alsations everywhere I go when out later at night at home, for no other reason than they know the dark better than I do, and despite usually only out that far at night with a shot gun, that's not much good from 10", with something breathing down your neck. We've spent a few nights each winter half heartedly trying to catch one, and I know a deer stalker who I reckon did shoot one, once but he only mentioned it one Christmas when drunk and wouldn't mention it again afterwards. If he had he would have burnt it, and buried the rest, it's not something we need or want up north, and the estates wouldnt benefit from it in any way. Why scare everyone??
I also know a man who used to run one of the big estates up north (won't name it) who laughed heartily into his dram when you mentioned wolves, and wouldn't let his daughters out too far, too late.
It really depends, a lot of people have probably made a mistake, but where I come from, you only talk about it round the fire after a good few drams, and in trusted company.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

i think, and on some levels hope, that there around. however i think at least 95% of sightings are mistaken identity and/or blown out of all proportion by peoples imaginations and helped ten fold by any newspaper that happens to pick up on it. you'd be amazed what people will see and facts they will ignore when they want something bad enough :whistling2:


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## harry136 (Aug 2, 2012)

If these wild breeding populations are found, i think that anything like a Leopard/ panther/ mountain Lion that is large enough to consider a human as food need to be removed from the habitat. Personally i see nothing wrong with a lynx remaining in the wild as they were a native species anyway, also not a threat to humans!


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

If there are wild Wallabies around due to the bringing in of the DWA and the rich folk releasing their pets then surely we can expect they had more than a few wallabies lol


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

harry136 said:


> If these wild breeding populations are found, i think that anything like a Leopard/ panther/ mountain Lion that is large enough to consider a human as food need to be removed from the habitat. Personally i see nothing wrong with a lynx remaining in the wild as they were a native species anyway, also not a threat to humans!


TBF, bears and wolves were originally native, and they'd eat humans without a second thought.


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## harry136 (Aug 2, 2012)

I am aware of that fact! Those animals will actively hunt humans if hungry enough! Which is probably partially why they were hunted to extinction in this country in the first place! Either that or Yogi and bobo make good steaks! I think there are a couple of small packs of wolves somewhere north of the border as part of a monitored programme. Dont quote me on it though!


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## manc (Nov 21, 2006)

harry136 said:


> If these wild breeding populations are found, i think that anything like a Leopard/ panther/ mountain Lion that is large enough to consider a human as food need to be removed from the habitat. Personally i see nothing wrong with a lynx remaining in the wild as they were a native species anyway, also not a threat to humans!


:lol2:


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

manc said:


> Leopards are the most discreet animals ever, they distrust and actively avoid humans, to the extent that they are rarely spotted even in areas where we know they exist.
> 
> Its also known that private collectors had big cats which were released into the country side when laws about ownership were introduced.
> 
> Add the two facts together and its perfectly possible.


Not true, i saw a documentary about leopards in india, it was a huge area of wood that was surrounded by city and population, any way leopards were going into peoples houses and taking people in the houses that were on the outskirts of the city


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

I can see there being maybe a couple of big cats but the amount of stories and sightings you hear about them there should be hundreds of these leopards, panthers and pumas running amock in our country sides


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

mrkeda said:


> Not true, i saw a documentary about leopards in india, it was a huge area of wood that was surrounded by city and population, any way leopards were going into peoples houses and taking people in the houses that were on the outskirts of the city


If it's the report I think then it was an isolated population where the leopards were literally starving to death, a starving animal is a dangerous one! Generally they are classed as very reclusive.


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Devi said:


> If it's the report I think then it was an isolated population where the leopards were literally starving to death, a starving animal is a dangerous one! Generally they are classed as very reclusive.


Yeah it was an isolated population.
All leopards are dangerous i think, i could be wrong though:Na_Na_Na_Na: 
The way i see it is, if someones 8 feet away from a leopard that they've stumbled across while they're walking their dog, surely by now someone would of been attacked.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

mrkeda said:


> Not true, i saw a documentary about leopards in india, it was a huge area of wood that was surrounded by city and population, any way leopards were going into peoples houses and taking people in the houses that were on the outskirts of the city


Was that the doc about vultures? The main idea of the program was that cows were being given a painkiller (or some other medicine) in old age, the vultures ate the cow, the vultures got poisoned by this painkiller, their numbers went down, dogs found easy meat with no competition from the birds, dog population went up, leopards found them to be easy prey, leopards start eating more dogs, leopards go into villages to get dogs, sometimes leopards get children instead.

Just wondering, 'cause I wouldn't really consider that to be normal circumstances. It has only been happening recently because of the drug. Apparently they never had a problem before then.


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

elmthesofties said:


> Was that the doc about vultures? The main idea of the program was that cows were being given a painkiller (or some other medicine) in old age, the vultures ate the cow, the vultures got poisoned by this painkiller, their numbers went down, dogs found easy meat with no competition from the birds, dog population went up, leopards found them to be easy prey, leopards start eating more dogs, leopards go into villages to get dogs, sometimes leopards get children instead.
> 
> Just wondering, 'cause I wouldn't really consider that to be normal circumstances. It has only been happening recently because of the drug. Apparently they never had a problem before then.


I think we watched 2 completely different shows there :whistling2:


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2011)

my brother in laws family own a farm in Aberystwyth and the come across half eaten sheep all the time they have even found carcasses up trees so yes they do exist in the country side most were released in the 70 so if they Havant found each other to breed they wont be around for much longer


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> my brother in laws family own a farm in Aberystwyth and the come across half eaten sheep all the time they have even found carcasses up trees so yes they do exist in the country side most were released in the 70 so if they Havant found each other to breed they wont be around for much longer


If there weren't soo many of these stories i wouldnt find it so hard to believe....


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Given the enormous numbers of apparent sightings of big cats I find it strange that not a single undisputed photograh exists.


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Woodsman said:


> Given the enormous numbers of apparent sightings of big cats I find it strange that not a single undisputed photograh exists.


my point exactly, especially now days where anything and everything is caught on camera by someone with a smart phone


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2011)

BAM!!!

Alien Big Cat attack in 2000, Trellech South Wales - YouTube

but there is proof after all!!!


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> BAM!!!
> 
> Alien Big Cat attack in 2000, Trellech South Wales - YouTube
> 
> but there is proof after all!!!


I call bull on the attack ther, it woulda ripped the kids face off.
Still i don't doubt that there may be the odd cat but the amount of sightings you'd expect to see more than one video from years ago...


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Looks like a video of an ordinary Black domestic cat to me!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

The problem is 99% of the public would know there ass from their elbow never mind be able to identify a large or medium sized cat.

These so called videos of UK cats always look like they were recorded on selotape! and nearly always of a big black house moggie.

Personally I'd love there to be big cats and perhaps they would eat some of the muppets you meet whilst out in the wilds, but thats not going to happen.


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

miss_ferret said:


> i think, and on some levels hope, that there around. however i think at least 95% of sightings are mistaken identity and/or blown out of all proportion by peoples imaginations and helped ten fold by any newspaper that happens to pick up on it. you'd be amazed what people will see and facts they will ignore when they want something bad enough :whistling2:


Wohic and i are in the 5% then. At the time of our close up sighting, we did not report it to the papers or the police. I did file an online report to the Big Cat Society and heard nothing back. A few years later I picked up a book on big cat sightings and my report is in there word for word - would of been nice if they had asked for my permission.



selina20 said:


> If there are wild Wallabies around due to the bringing in of the DWA and the rich folk releasing their pets then surely we can expect they had more than a few wallabies lol


There are lots of Wallabies too in the Salisbury area. I have only seen a dead one though at Fovant on the A30.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

There are definitely wild wallabies hopping around. And there were supposed to be a small group of about 10 coatis living somewhere up in the Lakes.


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Suitable book for non-believers to read - Cat Country written, I think by Di Francis.

Big Cat Society has a full log of all sightings!

jungle cats have been 'roadkill' victims, an Ocelot was shot by a Welsh farmer etc.

Most members of the Cat family will hybridise - and produce viable offspring. Many Scottish Wildcats, both in the wild and captivity, carry Domestic Cat blood.

And before everyone starts blaming keepers for releasing various cat species - read Di Francis's book! It is perfectly feasible for a feline species to have existed in the UK for centuries and to have avoided detection. There are medium size cats around - including a Leopard and her cub witnessed by someone whose father was a vet in Kenya, and who was brought up in Kenya. On the second sighting, he'd parked his car and was birdwatching from the comfort of his car, and the Leopard walked round his car!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Given the enormous numbers of apparent sightings of big cats I find it strange that not a single undisputed photograh exists.


There is _some_ indisputable proof:
''-A jungle cat was found on a roadside in Shropshire in 1989, killed by a passing car. 
-In 1993 a leopard was shot on the Isle of Wight after feasting on chickens and ducks. 

-In 1991 a lynx was shot in Suffolk after killing 15 sheep 

-Another lynx was shot by a police marksman in Northern Ireland in 1996. 
-Possibly the largest confirmed big cat discovered in the UK was a female puma captured alive in Scotland in 1980'' 



Photographs are always disputable


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2011)

i think they exist in our country side ive been told first hand by somebody that had no reason to bull shit me i dont live in a rural area so ive never had the chance to come across one myself but if they used to sell lions cubs in london in the 70 for next to nothing christ knows what people had in a cage in the garden :gasp:


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Em_40

I think the Shropshire Jungle Cat was stuffed and mounted and a local vet found that one of his clients cats was a Domestic x Jungle Cat, so the Jungle Cat left his mark before losing an argument with a car!

Also seem to remember a Lynx being caught in Yorkshire - poor body condition and de-clawed! One can only assume that some moron released it!


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## ljb107 (Nov 16, 2008)

mrkeda said:


> I call bull on the attack ther, it woulda ripped the kids face off.
> Still i don't doubt that there may be the odd cat but the amount of sightings you'd expect to see more than one video from years ago...





Woodsman said:


> Looks like a video of an ordinary Black domestic cat to me!


Did either of you watch the whole video? :lol2:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> Em_40
> 
> I think the Shropshire Jungle Cat was stuffed and mounted and a local vet found that one of his clients cats was a Domestic x Jungle Cat, so the Jungle Cat left his mark before losing an argument with a car!
> 
> Also seem to remember a Lynx being caught in Yorkshire - poor body condition and de-clawed! One can only assume that some moron released it!


According to some websites there were 3 Jungle cats found dead over a period of time. 

Think the 'Leopard' was an ALC unless there were 2 incidents within the the same year on the Isle of White, he thought it was a fox, then kept it secret thinking he had killed a protected species. Apparently.

All very interesting stuff anyway, I find myself very skeptical when I see photographs, video footage, personal accounts... but I do believe there probably is some still out there and some few people really have seen them.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> my brother in laws family own a farm in Aberystwyth and the come across half eaten sheep all the time they have even found carcasses up trees so yes they do exist in the country side most were released in the 70 so if they Havant found each other to breed they wont be around for much longer


That's where I was shown the alleged carcass. Definitely seemed like what you see on docs and stuff.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> BAM!!!
> 
> Alien Big Cat attack in 2000, Trellech South Wales - YouTube
> 
> but there is proof after all!!!


That was later proven to be a hoax


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## Oli P C (Sep 17, 2009)

My work mate came into work in the morning about 5years ago.and he sed he had just driven past a panther walking as chilled as chilled along the side of the road.and he's not the sort of guy to bull:censor: I do work and live in the sticks


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Oli P C said:


> My work mate came into work in the morning about 5years ago.and he sed he had just driven past a panther walking as chilled as chilled along the side of the road.and he's not the sort of guy to bull:censor: I do work and live in the sticks


Ah another second hand sighting, it must be true, there are big cats all over the uk


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

I must say I had a chuckle at the story of the ghost hunters who saw one! Just the kind of reliable people I believe! :-D

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## Oli P C (Sep 17, 2009)

Yes I've not seen one in the flesh but there have been a few sighting were I live and I've worked with this guy for ten years and he don't seem to be a dreamer. I think we would be a bit naive to think that wild cats wouldn't thrive in the this country and climate there were many wild cats privately owned in England once upon a time.


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2011)

Zoo-Man said:


> That was later proven to be a hoax


can you show me as i've never saw anything saying this was a hoax and ive been following the big cat theory for a number of years now :whistling2:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have seen first hand a set of plaster casts of paw prints that were taken in South Oxfordshire. These were subsequently identified as a puma.
The casts themselves were taken by someone acting in a professional capacity.
The cat itself was tracked through south Oxfordshire to Wiltshire by sightings, hair snagged on fence lines etc. The animal was not found, unfortunately.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> can you show me as i've never saw anything saying this was a hoax and ive been following the big cat theory for a number of years now :whistling2:


I cant find it on Google now :bash:


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

ian14 said:


> I have seen first hand a set of plaster casts of paw prints that were taken in South Oxfordshire. These were subsequently identified as a puma.
> The casts themselves were taken by someone acting in a professional capacity.
> The cat itself was tracked through south Oxfordshire to Wiltshire by sightings, hair snagged on fence lines etc. The animal was not found, unfortunately.


Which means it could also have been part of an elaborate hoax....

The subject frustrates me a lot as I undestand that some large cats were released when the 1976 DWAA came into force, but are there self sustaining breeding populations in the UK now?

The things that make me very sceptical are ;-

Start this subject on any forum and numerous people will claim to have seen one. Or will have a mate that has seen on etc. Yet despite numerous people claiming to have seen them where is the hard physical proof (A captured live animal or carcass of a dead one)? This leads me to believe that many people tell fibs about sightings which doesn't help the case that they exist IMHO.

There was a TV documentary a few years ago where two trappers from Canada who were used to trapping cats came to the UK to investigate ABC's. They visited a UK 'expert' who had been investigating attacks on livestock and even a small child etc. After examining numerous sheep kills etc they concluded that all were actually dog attacks. 

Stating that they could survive because wallabies are already here, or any other species for that matter is a bit naive IMHO.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> I cant find it on Google now :bash:


There is a big cat sighting forum. There will probably be information on there. It's been a while since I read it. I confess I'm fascinated by the subject and kind of hope they are here. But the severe lack of real evidence makes me think that they're no longer here.


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## k985721 (Aug 9, 2012)

theres a panther they caught lurking in exmoor!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

k985721 said:


> theres a panther they caught lurking in exmoor!


Many years ago. The old gits amongst us may recall it was featured on an Arthur C Clark programme. Almost certainly down to being released due to the 1976 DWAA. It was shot by a farmer if I recall correctly.


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## patterkillar (Sep 16, 2010)

in the 60's you needed a licence to keep a dog, but you could keep a tiger in shed at the bottom of your garden with no regulation


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mynki said:


> There is a big cat sighting forum. There will probably be information on there. It's been a while since I read it. I confess I'm fascinated by the subject and kind of hope they are here. But the severe lack of real evidence makes me think that they're no longer here.


I couldn't be arsed looking through them TBH :lol2:

Im with you, I am fascinated by the idea, & I do hope it is true. With technology now, everyone having posh smart phones with decent cameras, fancy photographic equipment, etc, surely someone somewhere must have a half decent photo or video, showing clearly what the black shape in the distance really is!


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

Im very, very doubtfull. As nice and romantic as the idea is, the very best evidence that can be produced over a 40 year period is second hand sightings (eye witness testimony is worthless as evidence, people are mistaken, mislead by lack of expertise in viewing wild animals, mislead or pre-lead by suggestion or are down right lying), or terrible out of focus photos of moggies or cardboared cutouts.

We live in a heavily populated, geographically small country. All of the countryside is used in some way, farmed or keepered. If a population of big cats were surviving, with only the only sign present, the odd sighting and crap photo it would be a miracle.

Bare in mind that the famous BBC snow leopard film was made in under 5 months, in a far more hostile terrain and they didnt struggle to find 'proof' of the subject they were seeking. The reason being that snow leopards exist, in the place the crew were looking.

As for the Dartmoor cat that someone refered to, it was considered or still is one of the most likely and definate candidates by 'ABC' hunters. So much so the amount of fuss they kicked up resulted in the MOD placing 18 Royal Marine Commando snipers on the moor for 8 weeks to find the sheep killing culprit. Guess what they found? Nothing. 

My question is when is the cut off point when people say 'if they were there proof would of been found by now?' For me that would be about 2 weeks after the first sighting, trust me ive been around fieldsports all my life. I know keepers who wake up at night if they are missing a poult. An animal like this wouldnt evade notice and prominence in the UK.

A couple of road kill jungle cats or servals do not make a viable population of Pumas/Leopards living wild in the UK, just a couple of escapees. If anything these casualties show how short lived a single release or escape is likely to be.

For me it's a no.


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Andy G said:


> Im very, very doubtfull. As nice and romantic as the idea is, the very best evidence that can be produced over a 40 year period is second hand sightings (eye witness testimony is worthless as evidence, people are mistaken, mislead by lack of expertise in viewing wild animals, mislead or pre-lead by suggestion or are down right lying), or terrible out of focus photos of moggies or cardboared cutouts.
> 
> We live in a heavily populated, geographically small country. All of the countryside is used in some way, farmed or keepered. If a population of big cats were surviving, with only the only sign present, the odd sighting and crap photo it would be a miracle.
> 
> ...


Nailed it.


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## YOGI BEAR (Jun 3, 2012)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/exotic-mammals/886237-anyone-know-anything-about-big.html I have seen large black cats on a few ocasions I personally believe they are some form of hybrid


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

YOGI BEAR said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/exotic-mammals/886237-anyone-know-anything-about-big.html I have seen large black cats on a few ocasions I personally believe they are some form of hybrid


I thought the DNA came back that the carcass was canine? :hmmr am I thinking of the freshly killed deer carcass they sampled?


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## COLD BLOODED THINGS RULE (Dec 27, 2012)

i KNOW its true because ive had a black panther and cubs in the garden!!!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

There is a distinct lack of pictures and video footage from those who have seen wild big cats in the UK on this thread. I know that if I had a pride of lions living down the bottom of my garden I'd have taken a pic or two (through the window of course). 

So, any pics anyone?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Considering I saw mine over 10 years ago, in a time before camera phones...no pics here :lol2: although I'd love to spend some time out looking. Wouldn't mind seeing some of this panther family though!


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## ljb107 (Nov 16, 2008)

Mynki said:


> There is a distinct lack of pictures and video footage from those who have seen wild big cats in the UK on this thread. I know that if I had a pride of lions living down the bottom of my garden I'd have taken a pic or two (through the window of course).
> 
> So, any pics anyone?


I think if i saw one, i'd be spending more time shitting a brick than taking a photo of the cat :lol2:


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Mynki said:


> There is a distinct lack of pictures and video footage from those who have seen wild big cats in the UK on this thread. I know that if I had a pride of lions living down the bottom of my garden I'd have taken a pic or two (through the window of course).
> 
> So, any pics anyone?


All the photos of supposedly "Black Panthers" I've seen are obviously of domestic cats. Incidentally, has anyone ever thought it strange that very few (if any) sightings are of ordinary spotted Leopards as opposed to the much rarer melanistic form!
I've been involved in forestry in a professional capacity for nigh on 50 years.As someone mentioned before, all woodland in this country is regularly visited by gamekeepers/wardens/foresters etc. my work takes me to remote woodlands far from human habitation and despite the area being a hot spot for big cat sightings neither I nor any of the numerous countryside workers of my acquaintance have ever seen any evidence whatsoever of any unusual animals.
I would love to be proved wrong,but am convinced an animal the size of a Leopard or Puma would not be able to survive for long in Britain.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> All the photos of supposedly "Black Panthers" I've seen are obviously of domestic cats. Incidentally, has anyone ever thought it strange that very few (if any) sightings are of ordinary spotted Leopards as opposed to the much rarer melanistic form!
> I've been involved in forestry in a professional capacity for nigh on 50 years.As someone mentioned before, all woodland in this country is regularly visited by gamekeepers/wardens/foresters etc. my work takes me to remote woodlands far from human habitation and despite the area being a hot spot for big cat sightings neither I nor any of the numerous countryside workers of my acquaintance have ever seen any evidence whatsoever of any unusual animals.
> I would love to be proved wrong,but am convinced an animal the size of a Leopard or Puma would not be able to survive for long in Britain.


On the other hand, there are loads of Africans who have never seen an elephant or a lion, let alone a leopard... these big cats are pretty good at not being found if they don't want to be, so unless you are specifically looking for one I doubt that you would stumble across one very often, especially if theres only a small handful. It would also make sense that people would have kept the rarer forms as pets, as we see today, morphs are much more highly sought after than normal ones. On top of all that, if you really had solid proof, came across them regularly or had definite photo's or video of one, would you really come forward with it knowing that someone would come and kill it? Or a crowd of big cat sighting hunters would come and trample over the place? I know I wouldn't.


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Can't see how you can compare little old UK with Africa.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> All the photos of supposedly "Black Panthers" I've seen are obviously of domestic cats. Incidentally, has anyone ever thought it strange that very few (if any) sightings are of ordinary spotted Leopards as opposed to the much rarer melanistic form!
> I've been involved in forestry in a professional capacity for nigh on 50 years.As someone mentioned before, all woodland in this country is regularly visited by gamekeepers/wardens/foresters etc. my work takes me to remote woodlands far from human habitation and despite the area being a hot spot for big cat sightings neither I nor any of the numerous countryside workers of my acquaintance have ever seen any evidence whatsoever of any unusual animals.
> I would love to be proved wrong,but am convinced an animal the size of a Leopard or Puma would not be able to survive for long in Britain.


I stalk deer on forestry commision for Scotland and UPM Till Hill ground as well as on ground belonging to smaller forestry companies in very remote locations so I understand what you're saying.

Funnily enough this subject comes up on a hunting forum I frequent every few months. It was mentioned that a freedom of information request was made to the FC regarding big cats resulting in two employees claiming to have seen these animals. However, unsurprisingly there was no evidence given. 

People often say they could survive in the highlands, but the highlands are a bloody big place! And the only genuine 'wilderness' are parts of Rannoch Moor, but it's all desolate and not suitable habitat for big cats due to lack of cover etc, surely?


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Mynki said:


> I stalk deer on forestry commision for Scotland and UPM Till Hill ground as well as on ground belonging to smaller forestry companies in very remote locations so I understand what you're saying.
> 
> Funnily enough this subject comes up on a hunting forum I frequent every few months. It was mentioned that a freedom of information request was made to the FC regarding big cats resulting in two employees claiming to have seen these animals. However, unsurprisingly there was no evidence given.
> 
> People often say they could survive in the highlands, but the highlands are a bloody big place! And the only genuine 'wilderness' are parts of Rannoch Moor, but it's all desolate and not suitable habitat for big cats due to lack of cover etc, surely?


 Funnily enough I've worked for Tilhill and it's previous subsidaries for many years!!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Can't see how you can compare little old UK with Africa.


:roll: I wasn't, I was saying that theres an awful lot of people in Africa and elephants and lions are pretty obvious and hard to miss, yet theres a whole lot of people outside of cities that havn't seen any.


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## COLD BLOODED THINGS RULE (Dec 27, 2012)

When I saw a panther family in my garden I went to get my camera ... No batteries:devil: went to get batteries and by then all I could see was the tail end of them running off :gasp: I don't need a photo to remember it: victory:


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## YOGI BEAR (Jun 3, 2012)

any thoughts on them being a hybrid perhaps domestic cat/wildcat/big cat or some combination


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Funnily enough I've worked for Tilhill and it's previous subsidaries for many years!!


Do you know their wildlife manager, who's name begins with L? I'd be interested to hear his opinions on the subject!


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

i realy do think they are out there but with the high quality of cameras on phones i think there should be some good pics by now 

as for most of sightings being the melonistic version of the leapord its easy more of them where bought for there looks and if they breed your going to get melonistic so my thoughts are there will more than likeley be a madjority of them than any thing else


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

YOGI BEAR said:


> any thoughts on them being a hybrid perhaps domestic cat/wildcat/big cat or some combination


A few. Scottish wildcats are known to hybridise with domestic moggies. This is well documented and there is plenty of proof. Year ago some people believed that a second species of wildcat lived in Scotland, these were named Kellas cats. After some examples of Kellas cats were trapped and shot it was proven that they were in fact domestic moggie X scottish wildcat. They were not a new species, despite being much larger than a domestic pet etc.

It's also been proven that a significant percentage of people struggle to judge the size of 'cats' at distance. Where they can estimate the size of a rectangle etc, they struggle with cat shapes and often over estimate the size of what they are seeing.

Kellas cats are probably resposible for the majority of all scottish big cat sightings if not all of them. Add the problems with size estimation at distance and you have a realistic explanation for big cat sightings. 

In 1980 a cougar was captured in Scotland. From memory it was called 'Felicity' and is now on display in a scottish museum. It was found to be tame and will have been an escaped or deliberately released pet. 

Bearing in mind the kellas cat info and the fact that scottish wildcat populations are routinely monitored across their range, this monitoring includes DNA testing to see how hybridisation with domestic cats has affected their genetic purity, I suspect there is no other species like the cougar involved as it would have been picked up by now. 

I believe in random escapes as there is proof. I can't believe in self sustaining breeding populations as there is no evidence. That said, the random escapes must be extremely rare and I suspect the vast majority of sightings are people who are mistaken or just telling lies.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Info on kellas cats for those who have not heard of them before :-

Kellas Cats, Scotching the Myth


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Mynki said:


> Do you know their wildlife manager, who's name begins with L? I'd be interested to hear his opinions on the subject!


Sorry no idea,didn't know they had wildlife managers.


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

i believe there are or at least were within the last 20 years big cats on our country sides. its only a vague memory but i remember being with my aunti and her bf and my brother in the woods on dartmoor and we found an adult ram with his ribs and half his abdomen eaten out, so thinking back what els could it have been? i dont think a dog could have done that much damage


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

also the guy who used to own dartmoor wildlife park ellis daw (now called dartmoor zoological park due to new owners) once told me that when the had the 2 female mountain lions (pumas) (cougars) that he was out about 5am by their enclosure and they were calling and he could hear a male calling back from outside the park


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Is that the 'we bought a zoo' place? because in that the new owners say they hear calling from outside the park too, and that the new owner in the early stages of taking over the park saw a puma (I think) run out in front of him while he was driving the car, he thought they had had an escape so he rushed back to the zoo to find that there were none missing.


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

em_40 said:


> Is that the 'we bought a zoo' place? because in that the new owners say they hear calling from outside the park too, and that the new owner in the early stages of taking over the park saw a puma (I think) run out in front of him while he was driving the car, he thought they had had an escape so he rushed back to the zoo to find that there were none missing.


yh thats the same place although they dont have the two female pumas now, i dont know if they got rid but i heard that they died as they were pretty old coming on 20 years old, but they did have the jag soverign escape and jump into the tiger enclosure (luckily they were locked away at the time) and a wolf which was re captured in a nearby quarry, when i worked there we also had 5 monkeys escape through a part of the cage which had rusted out took about a week to get em all back but they only came back cause they were hungry and knew where to get the food


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

mcdougle said:


> yh thats the same place although they dont have the two female pumas now, i dont know if they got rid but i heard that they died as they were pretty old coming on 20 years old, but they did have the jag soverign escape and jump into the tiger enclosure (luckily they were locked away at the time) and a wolf which was re captured in a nearby quarry, when i worked there we also had 5 monkeys escape through a part of the cage which had rusted out took about a week to get em all back but they only came back cause they were hungry and knew where to get the food


yeh, says about the Jag and the wolf in the book too, didn't read it to the end so it could have said about the monkeys.


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

em_40 said:


> yeh, says about the Jag and the wolf in the book too, didn't read it to the end so it could have said about the monkeys.


the monkeys were before ben, i worked there with ellis


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

aaah, sorry you said that in your first post didn't you, silly me :blush:


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## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

haha the guy who let the jag out works in endsleigh garden centre now


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Sorry no idea,didn't know they had wildlife managers.


Yep, they do. I'm on one of their properties on friday. Only red and roe deer, pine martin and red squirrel where I'm going though. I hope.... :lol2:


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