# WTF Enclosure Size, Lighting And Heating



## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Hi, sometime this year I will be looking into getting a couple of WTF's, and I'm currently into doing some basic research and have a few questions.

*ENCLOSURE SIZE -* Right, looking at the caresheet on here it says to go for a minimum of 60 x 45 x 60cm, is this for 1 frog? I read another post on here that someone keeps 2 in a 45 x 45 x 60. I'll be looking to get an Exo Terra Terrarium

*HEATING -* I haven't seen any info that frogs thermoregulate like or anything like reptiles do so I presume they don't, so if I get a heat mat should this be the full length and width of the bottom of the terrarium? I can't seem to find a mat that large. The nearest I could find was 23" x 11" Habistat Mat.

*LIGHTING -* You probably know that with the Exo Terra terrariums you can get the compact tops, I plan on getting one of these, it would be the 60cm one (depending on terraium size), not this has got room for 3 bulbs, but I'm not sure what combination to go for, with a 30cm one it is recommended that a ET Repti Glo 2.00 be installed but what should I be putting in the other 2 fittings? I was thinking may a Repti Glo 5.0 as well as a 2.0, and if night lights are not available then 2x Glo 2.0's and 1 Glo 5.0. Does anyone know whether there are night lights that would fit these fittings?

Kind regards
Mick


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

the 60x45x60 exo could house 3 happily.

for heating I use a heat mat down the whole of the back and a smaller one on the side, both on a mat stat, to get the temps up to apprx 28-30'c. measured with digital thermometer inside the tank.

Lighting I use 5% bulbs and 2% bulbs, shortly changing them all to 5%'s

Humidity is kept at approx 50-60% again measured with a digital hygrometer, probe inside the tank. I mist the tank daily just as lights go out.

Feed them a mix of crickets and locusts, dusted with nutrabol. as mine are adults now, I feed them every 2-3 days. I feed them as many as they will eat in one sitting then remove the uneaten ones.

hope this helps 

Jenn.

Also just to add, this is what I do, not what everyone does, people do things differently to other people.


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## twydell (Jul 29, 2008)

LittleMick said:


> Hi, sometime this year I will be looking into getting a couple of WTF's, and I'm currently into doing some basic research and have a few questions.
> 
> *ENCLOSURE SIZE -* Right, looking at the caresheet on here it says to go for a minimum of 60 x 45 x 60cm, is this for 1 frog? I read another post on here that someone keeps 2 in a 45 x 45 x 60. I'll be looking to get an Exo Terra Terrarium
> 
> ...


I pretty much do the same as Jen

I also have a 60 x 45 x 60 exo terra, i have 2 but as jen said it could house more. they both seem happy in it

i use a dessert heat matt under the tank by exo terra (because i find the rainforest ones dont get warm enough) and another on the back of the tank. I use a digital thermometer and hydrometer, and keep it around 85F during the day and let it drop to around 70 to 75 f at night. I mist them twice a day once in the morning and once at night at lights out.... i also use live plants because it keeps the humidity around 70%

i use 5%, i used to use 2% but everyone i spoke to suggested 5% because 2% gives off little if not any UVB! 

and yeah you can get exo terra compact night glow bulbs, i have a blue one that is supposed to mimic moon light so i can view them without disturbing them lol

I feed mine 3 X-Large locusts every 2 - 3 days. dusted every couple of days of course 

but when they where babies i fed them daily as many as they wanted ( and not too bigger crickets/locusts!!)​


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

LittleMick said:


> Hi, sometime this year I will be looking into getting a couple of WTF's, and I'm currently into doing some basic research and have a few questions.
> 
> *ENCLOSURE SIZE -* Right, looking at the caresheet on here it says to go for a minimum of 60 x 45 x 60cm, is this for 1 frog? I read another post on here that someone keeps 2 in a 45 x 45 x 60. I'll be looking to get an Exo Terra Terrarium
> 
> ...


If you've got the space for a 60x45x60 then that's cool, but I keep a couple in a 45x45x60 and I would've thought it could house another one as well.
Heatmat-wise, I use a komodo 30x30 taped central on one side of the terrarium.
The bulbs I use are a combination of repti glo 5.0 and 2.0. For night-time viewing, I use a couple of blue LEDs that simulate moonlight.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the quick responses.

*ENCLOSURE -* The place where I will be buying from does a basic setup wich includes a 30 x 30 x 45cm, I presume this would be ok for a juvenile. But as adults even a 45 x 45 x 60cm seems too small. As they can grow to 3 1/2 - 4" surely they wouldn't have enough room to jump about? I think until I've done my research the choices will be the 45 x 45 x 60 but more than likely the 60 x 45 x 60.

*HEATING -* *JEN -* Are you using the 60x45x60? If so then that is a bloomin' big heat mat you're using to cover the whole of the back, what product is that and it's dimensions? *SIZE AND QUANTITY -* From what you have all said, it seems as though the size and quantity of the heat mat(s) doesn't matter as long as the ambient heat is correct? *PLACEMENT - *Now I know the Exo Terra terrariums are raised with enough room to place the heat mat under it, but when you are putting the heat mats on the side or back are these being taped to the inside or outside? And what type of tape are you using? With snakes some people are using duct tape. *BACKGROUNDS -* Does anyone use the Exo Terra backgrounds, I like them as they add the 3rd dimension, but if you have 3 sides covered in this then the heat mat would definietly have to be stuck on the *inside *wall. Unless I put the ET background on 2 sides only and a paper background on the back.

*LIGHTING -* Seeing's I'll be getting a compact top for the terrarium, it will need 3 lights so I think 2 x Repti Glo 5 and one Night Glo bulb. *ipreferaflan -* You said you're using an LED set up for you night lights, have you got a link to a product I can see? I have seen reptile setups with these in and I think they look pretty good.

Cheers
Mick


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

LittleMick said:


> Thanks for the quick responses.
> 
> *ENCLOSURE -* The place where I will be buying from does a basic setup wich includes a 30 x 30 x 45cm, I presume this would be ok for a juvenile. But as adults even a 45 x 45 x 60cm seems too small. As they can grow to 3 1/2 - 4" surely they wouldn't have enough room to jump about? I think until I've done my research the choices will be the 45 x 45 x 60 but more than likely the 60 x 45 x 60.
> 
> ...



a 30x30x45 will be fine for juveniles, but they grow bloody quick.
45x45x60 is fine for space! Mine jump about every now and again and there is plenty of room.

Here is the link to the product I use: Lucky Reptile Night Sky LED Set NS-1UK

It comes with 3 LEDs (which will be sufficient at lighting a 45x45x60 and even a 60x45x60, you can also buy more LEDs to fit into it.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

You can use mats under the base so long as your substrate isn't too deep- otherwise it doesn't let the heat through. I generally go for mats roughly half the size of the base, but if they are 'statted it's really up to you. In terms of size, although WTFs are pretty big, they are also pretty inactive, in comparison to other treefrogs- they really don't need oodles of space.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> You can use mats under the base so long as your substrate isn't too deep- otherwise it doesn't let the heat through. I generally go for mats roughly half the size of the base, but if they are 'statted it's really up to you. In terms of size, although WTFs are pretty big, they are also pretty inactive, in comparison to other treefrogs- they really don't need oodles of space.


They're hardly ever on the floor though, so it makes the mat pretty redundant. I would recommend using it on the side of the viv. Then they can move away from it if it gets too hot.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the replies again everyone, and the link ipreferaflan, I've saved that as a fave, will come in handy for the terrarium and my vivariums.

I think I will go for the 45x45x60cm terrarium then for 2 tree frogs. With a heat mat for the back. And the sides covered with the textured backgrounds. I think that compact top has 2 light fittings, so 2 repti glo 5's along with those LED's for night lights.

*QUESTION ON PAPER BACKGROUNDS & HEAT -* It has been suggested in a book I am reading that 3 sides be covered to reduce stress, so if I put a paper background on the back wall then the heat pad behind that, would it stop much of the heat coming through?

I don't know whether I will be putting live plants in there so the depth of the substrate is unkknown at the minute.

Does anyone have any pics of their setups at all? It would be really good if I can't have some sort of visual reference as a guide to my setup.

Regards
Mick


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I have a 45x45x60 exo for my whites, and I use a 23 x 11 inch habistat heat mat on the back, with a coco mat panel background. Behind the tank, I siliconed on the old polystyrene background that came with the viv, to use as an insulator. the heat mat I have on the side is a 11x11 inch , both of these are linked up to a mat stat. as for covering the sides, I just use paper, looking into something that looks nicer though


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I recommend you use a mixture of 5.0 and 2.0 repti-glo lights, instead of two 5.0s.
The 5.0 is a different colour light to the 2.0 (the 2.0 is whiter and brighter), and a combination of the two looks nice. Also the frogs can then adjust how much UV exposure they are subject to.

I've covered one side of the viv with wood (on the outside) which looks pretty nice, but they don't seem all that bothered by being viewed.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> I have a 45x45x60 exo for my whites, and I use a 23 x 11 inch habistat heat mat on the back, with a coco mat panel background. Behind the tank, I siliconed on the old polystyrene background that came with the viv, to use as an insulator. the heat mat I have on the side is a 11x11 inch , both of these are linked up to a mat stat. as for covering the sides, I just use paper, looking into something that looks nicer though


Hi Jen, so your heat mat covers near enough the whole back of the terrarium, *is this on the insde or the outside of the glass? *And your poly background is on the back as well? Surely this defeats the whole point of having a 3 dimension background? Are are you using it PURELY as an insulator?

So......... if I have the heat mats on the sides or back on the outside of the glass it would be pointless having the poly on the inside as they would block most if not all the heat, and if I have the heat mats on the inside with a background on the outside of the glass it would be pointless as well, as the heat mat would block the view of the background anyway, and make any 3D backgrounds useless. What about if I didn't have heat mats and went with the Exot Terra Dual canopy, that way I can have the Repti Glo Florescent Tubes for viewing AND the Repti Glo Basking Lamps, and if I connected them to a dimmer stat would that not be better?

Cheers
Mick


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

yes, the heat mat pretty much covers the back of the tank, I put it on the inside of the glass, then put the coco panel over this, then on the outside of the viv, I siliconed on the old background to use as insulation. the heat mat on the side of the viv, is on the outside of the glass and covers the bottom half, it just bumbs the heat up to the correct temps. I shall take some pics so you can see what I mean, think it might be easier


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

this is the inside of my set up, you can see the coco panel background, underneath that is the heat mat that covers most of the back. on the one side is a heat mat, just a small one, covering about 1/3rd of the side. (scuse the water in the bowl, not cleaned it yet this morning)










this is the back of the tank, sorry for the angle, can't move the tank to view it properly, but this is what I mean by using the old background as an insulator. it just bounces the heat back into the tank, as polystyrene isn't a heat conductor.










my mats are on a mat stat, and the meat in the day stays at about 28-30'c or so.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the images Jen, clears it up no end. I was confused when you were saying you were using the poly background. So basically you are usiing that as an insulator and nothing more. I take it the coco background doesn't block any heat? And where did you get the coco panel from?


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

the coco panel doesn't block much heat at all, I got it from livefoods uk but you can find it on ebay and dartfrog sell it as well. I think it's made by lucky reptile.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Cheers Jen, will check those out and maybe add it to my pre buy list


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Right, couple more questions, sorry...

*HEAT MAT -* AWhen you guys n gals have your heat mats on the side of the tanks what method are you using to attach them? Just don't want to use something like tape, then find the heat mat melts the adhesive and it ends up falling off or worse.

*DRAINAGE & HUMIDITY -* Do any of you use any sort of drainage system under you sbustrate? I was reading a book I got on treefrogs in general and it says with certain substrates it ends up soggy due to humidity so therefore you should have a drainanage system underneath to catch excess water, so something like a gravel tray full of gravel, with some sort of mesh on top of that so the substrate is resting above the whole lot.
Now I also read in the same book that WTF can tolerate a wide variety of temperatures and that they don't require a high humidity, about household humidity levels. During dry parts of the year the enclosure can be misted. Does this sound about right? 


LM


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

LittleMick said:


> Right, couple more questions, sorry...
> 
> *HEAT MAT -* AWhen you guys n gals have your heat mats on the side of the tanks what method are you using to attach them? Just don't want to use something like tape, then find the heat mat melts the adhesive and it ends up falling off or worse.
> 
> ...


I don't have WTFs at the mo (ex got custardy, lol), but i still keep treeforgs.

Ok, Heat Mats: I've just stuck mine onto the side of my tank with electrical tape- easy to remove, but relatively heat-proof.

Drainage: As you pointed out, WTFs don't need the higher humidity some other frogs do, but accidents happen- all the more reason to have a drainage layer for accidental over-waterings. I use gravel, clay pellets (Hortag, Alleca) are also good- and lighter. To separate this layer from the substrate you can use weed-suppressing garden mesh or even nylon net curtain.

Hope that helps.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Cheers Ron, 

The heat mat I was planning on getting was an Exo Terra 28 x 43cm 25w desert Heatwave Mat. So that would cover just over half of one side. There are loads of places to get the tape, Wickes for a start, Electrical tape, PVC duct tape.

Right, on the drainage side then, are you using a tray with the gravel in? This is what I was thinking of for easy removal, filled with gravel, then at my local garden center they do this nylon mesh stuff that I could use as a seperater folded up the sides with the substrate inside it, again for easy removal.

LM


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

If you can get a tray to fit exactly, go for it- otherwise just cover the base.


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## LittleMick (Jan 1, 2010)

Cool, sounds good, thanks.

Another question about heat, lol, alot of you are using multiple heat mats on various sides, if I am getting one of the Exo Terra terrariums would it not be easier if I got one of dual canopies? They have the repti go florescent bubs AND the dun glo basking spot lamps, that woud take care of UV, lighting AND heat all in one canopy, would this not be a better option?


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