# never feed morio/meal worms. ever.



## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

ifed my waterdragons about 3 hours ago, morio worms i a bowl and crix and locust loose in th viv, as alway. i returnd 20 mins ago to find terri laying dead on the floor with a morio worn tunneld out of her throat. when i turned the light on, because i saw her laying on the floor, it retreated back inside of her. i am so pissed, and really upset.

my advice is never feed worms. i read about crushing the heads but "experianced " keepers say not to bother becuse it is a myth, and they will eat them better if they are alive. tell that to my dead WD.

sorry for the language etc, but i am realy PO'ed, and upset.

why her?

trust me, dont feed beetle lavae they CAN kill your animal. they HAVE killed mine.

add for the record she was in perfect health, and came out for a cuddle just before feeding, she sat with me, and had a lil run around so she was fine.


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## BELIAL (Nov 10, 2006)

mate i'm sorry... what a bastard...


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

thanks.

i just feel so damned stupid, i always suspected that they could still wiggle or bite, but just listened to others, adn left them as they were. i have just stamped on about 50 that i had, and this sux. 

i beg you all please please dont use these as food, learn from my mistake, adn dont let your reps suffer.


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your loss 

Maybe you should get your WD checked over, see what the cause of death was. If there was something else present it may save some of your other herps...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

holy shit...
i believed it had happened... i even argues against it being merely myth.. BUT i wouldnt have thought it a problem as long as the animal chews before it swallows..having said tha lizards only chew for the same reason we do..to get it crunched up enough to swallow..doesnt guarentee the resiliant little basards are dead though...

you have been ver unlucky mate, im very sory.


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## BELIAL (Nov 10, 2006)

those things eat through plastic.they have really strong jaws and are pretty evil..that is pretty f'd up..


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

she was fine earlier, and now she has a hole i her throat wit a morio still in it. i even pulled the bugger out with tweesers because i didnt want to bury it with her. it was alive, missing 1cm of its tail, and another bite mark halfway down, but still thrashing around, and grabbing the tweesers, until i crushed its head, then it just wiggled for at least a min unti it joined its friends underfoot. i dont usually kill any animal, and i shouldnt have stamped on them, i was soo PO'ed. i have buried terrie now.


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## lynne1 (Nov 23, 2006)

am so sorry dan.


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## Furless-Friends (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry to hear that m8.... really sucks. I use superworms/morio worms alot for my waterdragons and aint had a problem till now... time for another tink!


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

I was trying to get our chameleon to eat a pinkie last week so put a morio worm in my hand with the pinkie to attract the chameleon to the movement. The morio made of meal of the pinkies face within seconds. Ive been biten myself loads of times by morio worms.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

i blew it all off as a myth also, thinking the gastric juices/acid etc would kill it, but apparently not. i will never again in my life buy a meal worm, or a morio worm and i am going to try toget my other WD onto a dry/tinned food, 

the bottom line, is ANY livefood can harm ANY pet


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

cheers for the kind thoughts guys, but i am going to leave this topic until 2moz now, i want to try to take my mind off of it, at least a little.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Can you get some proof of this, other than just seeing the animal feeding on a dead WD?

I'm sorry for your loss but i don't believe the worm was the cause.


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

That's why I thought it was worth getting the WD checked. It all sounded a bit sudden... :?


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## Dru (Jan 13, 2007)

So sorry for your loss man 
We de-head the morios and meals at college for feeding time.
I've always thought what's the point?
But now I know.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I've "investigated" several reports of this now.

Not one has been proven to be anything other than a worm feeding on a dead lizard.

The tendency is for people to see a worm eating, go to grab it and watching it dissapeer under the skin. At which point everyone assumes it has killed the lizard when infact it is just hiding in the same fashion it does when you try to grab it in a tub.

The most common animals this happens to are the smaller gecko species and, as seen here, water dragons.

The common denominator is the origin of the lizards which is nearly allways CF or WC. 

To date i have seen no proof at all that this has happened as written.


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## Dru (Jan 13, 2007)

reticulatus said:


> I've "investigated" several reports of this now.
> 
> Not one has been proven to be anything other than a worm feeding on a dead lizard.
> 
> ...


Our college teaches us to crush the heads.
So obviously there must be a reason? :S


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Yes, they fear the rumours.......


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

i cannot "prove" it, but ill tell you what i found. i cannot take pics because she is already buried. 

i enter the room to finde her on the floor. i move close andturn the flourecent tube on in the viv so i can see her properly. when the lightgoes on a morio backs its body into the wds throat. i sat for a moment taking it in, because it was a shock. i then picked up her body, and looked. 

there was a tear in the skin, like a slit, just where the breast bone ends, in this slit is a morio.

i pull the bugger out with tweesers, 10 maybe 20 secs later, after getting them. 

themorio was missing part of his tail, and he had a visable bite mark in the mid of his body. he then turned his body, and grabbe the tweesers with his legs. 

there was a bit of blood on the inside, but virtually noe on the outside, the worm was crimson. i looked to see, and it is dark inside terri, but it looked as tho the osophogus was open (could be tracheia) and there was no obvious feeding. just a small hole i could see 1cm into, and a bloody(as in blood covered) morio.

there are wo possible casues of this. 

1 the morio, as i expect, tunnele out of a healthy lizard
or
2 the heathy lizard detiriated in less than 3 hours, died, then a partially eaten morio came along and decided to eat its way into the stomach cavity of the WD. 

there is another WD who shares the viv, and he is sitting with me now, and is fine, running around and perfectly normal, eating waxies from my hand atm(heads removed)

i dont really care if you belive me, or if you think i am wrong, i know what i think, and i know what i saw. i will beive, and always belive that a morio killed my WD, and i am saying this not to cause fear or panic, but so others dont lose their reps un-necassarily.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

with respect retic, i know what i saw. my WDs are CB, and both have been perfectin the 6 moths they have lived with me. i got my first tub of morios last monday, and have been feeding them since.

terrie was not near the morios, in a bowl, 2 feet away, she may have been chewing one, killed over and it ate her, but i see this a very unlikely. 

belive what you will, this is my view on what happened, and if you choose to accept it or not, it doesnt really matter, but i ask that you dont feed beetle lavea, and if you do,remove the head and legs, to be safe.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

not that it proves it either way as the dragon could still ahve died first and then it burrowed out [altho im kinda with you on this one to be honest mate and am giving things serious thought] but out of interest do u leave morio in the viv? me...myself never do..as if a morio can tunnel out of a dead rep..they can tunnel into a live, healthy sleeping one.. and i just never leave live food in the vivs.. i know i prolly have lazy reps but i do tend to baby them a bit and i dont thik theres any harm


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

Was it the one on this thread? http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/rept...-sale-wanted/16369-sale-swap-open-offers.html

You described it as tiny and housed with another larger male. It could just be that it was weak anyways and there could have been some underlying problem..?


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

soz to keep posting, but also the morio was facing outward, and there was no room for him to turn, so he backed in, and when i got there he was 1/3 out, 2/3 in and backedup to retreat.


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

so sorry mate, some of us knew it was possible, but its one of those 'it wont happen to me' moments!


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I appreciate you are upset and i understand it. I am not trying to upset you further or cause an arguement.

I just wanted to establish if there was any proof. I'll stop posting on this now to remove any further pain i may cause you.

Sorry


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your loss.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Was it the one on this thread? http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/rept...-sale-wanted/16369-sale-swap-open-offers.html
> 
> You described it as tiny and housed with another larger male. It could just be that it was weak anyways and there could have been some underlying problem..?


 
i had her confirmed as female after i decided to keep them. she was eating, growing steadily, and fully healthy, and running around 3hrs before hand. if there was an under laying problem, which there could have been, it must be one that takes ahold, and kills and animal in a few hours. i am not stupid, and accept that there could have ben another cause, but it seems so unlikely. 



and the morio had tunneled through the abdominal cavity, out through the front of the lizard. 

the morio was partially eaten.

all the evidance points toward my opinion, and i beive it. 

am i wrong, who knows. i had buried her before i came online. 

and my usual feeding pattern is to put the food in at around 6/7 and take it out 4/5 hours later. the morios/meals(not used for over 2 weeks now) would alwaysbe in a bowl. the crix loose but i collected them later. i did this because when ifirst got them, steve, was reluctant to eat infront of me, so i left them aone with them, no i do through habbit, because both are tame, and dont mind my being there.

retic, you are not upsetting me any further, and i appriciate that you are trying to find the route of this. i am giving my opinion. there is no proof that i can offer other than my word. sorry if igave that impression,


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

I thought it came out of the throat area :? or do you mean it tunneled through the abdomin area and up and out through the throat?


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

I just think it seems implausible...

I squeezed the middle of a mealworm with pliers to simulate a bite as you had described, then removed the last 1cm as you also stated. This mealworm *did* stay alive for a few minutes after, but all it seemed capable of doing in that time was die, and die slowly... Why on earth it would want to eat to ingest any nourishment whilst in this state I don't know, and if it was just trying to move to a different location, the throat and mouth would be the most obvious route it would take rather than burrow through the WD's body. For all that to happen in under 20mins just doesn't sit right :?


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

i havent personally got the answer to your question, and i dont know. tbh i dont care, all i no, is i am in a state atm, my WD is dead, and thier is a tunnle from the abdo the WD, that comes out near the thraot, above the stirnum in my honest opinion, the morio killed her. I MIGHT BE WRONG. but as said, this is wha i belive, and i was trying to warn others to makesure knowone else loses reps due to this.

i dont want to argue, i am havung trouble making sence atm, but, i just pray that it doesnt happen to you. 

it isworth while thinking where this "myth" originally came from, because there must have been somthing to start it off. i belive that this is a uncommon occurance, but it does happen sometimes. to me and others.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

im finding it all very hard to believe:? are u sure she wasnt ill to begin with??? i may be wrong but didnt u have a thread on here not too long ago saying u found her in the water u thought she was dead then?? u said she was lethargic etc???? dont think im having a go at ya but what size was she?? was she a fully grown adult?? i dont understand why the water dragon didnt chew her food??? if she chewed it and it made it too her stomach it wouldnt of been able to have the time to chew her way through her throat.we've been keeping reps for a very long time now and have never experienced this at all.this is all how can i say......:crazy::crazy:


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

weeminx said:


> was she a fully grown adult??


There's pictures of her here: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/rept...-sale-wanted/16369-sale-swap-open-offers.html


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## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

Sorry for your loss Dan  

This has happened twice on this forum now and no one beleives it !
I have heard of thid 4 times now !
2 being green anoles, 1 WD (yours) and 1 BD (a mates), so hardly a myth
I could understand if 1 of these was the off chance but not four times !


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

old el paso your my hero....:lol2:
ive kept my uromastyx occellatus for 3 yrs and fed him 1 morio a month for 3 yrs and nothings happened to him.(apart from he gets really excited).btw i dont mean thats all he gets once a month lol before anyone starts saying hes not fed enough:lol2:.he gets veg everyday.
my beardie also gets morio worms ive never crushed the head and to this day i have never seen one eating its way out!! im sure after all this time i would of seen this strange phenomenom.surely after all these years of people keeping reps some1 somewhere would of taken a pic of the after math.and of all the herp reference papers ive read ive never seen it documented.(even as far back as 1931) everyone say oooooo::lol2:


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

AnthonyY said:


> Sorry for your loss Dan
> 
> This has happened twice on this forum now and no one beleives it !
> I have heard of thid 4 times now !
> ...


Don't forget that story about a mealworm who burrowed it's way out through a skinks leg! :help:


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

u must be mental feeding morios to a wee wd that size. im done, nothing more to say on this subject.:bash:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i think its already been established he doesnt think his wd was ill beforehand....

it has been documented..not as fact... but as "assumed" multiple times.

and if ur uro gets one morio a month... and his wd got say 10 weekly.. then its 40 times more liekly to happen..., so one a month doesnt say a lot.

and surely a small waterdragon is more likely to chew and kill the morio than a large one....

id be more concerned about giving them toa rep that will swallow them hole and alive...


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

im surprised a anole could even eat a morio worm, mine have trouble gulping down a wax worm.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

Oh my god, im so sorry you're having to go through this. I'd heard the rumours myself and never bought them (only waxies but i still crush the head a little).

I have read you're description and i'm with you on what it sounds like.

now ive never seen a WD eat, but i was under the impression that few reptiles actually chew. I know my tree frogs dont. I thought that was where the stories came from as the stomach acid is supposed to kill the food but i guess your WD's acid wasnt a strong enough to kill it properly. Even if it was a little small and weaker than the other, i think thats probably just why the morio managed to kill her and not your other WD.

I dont know any more than anyone so ill stop speculating, just wanted to offer my sympathies and say I believe you! (HUGS!)

Thankyou for warning those of us who'll listen about morios. and im not having a go at anyone there just mean that some people will carry on regardless. I certainly wont ever buy them.


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## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

tombraider said:


> im surprised a anole could even eat a morio worm, mine have trouble gulping down a wax worm.


 
Sorry the snoles were small/med mealworms


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## quik_silver_0707 (Jan 17, 2007)

*Meal Worms*

Hi, this is a raw subject with me mate. I brought 2 frilled dragons and over christmas and feed them both meal worms. As the male ate one i thought in panic it didnt look as if if chewed that one!!
And sure enough later i checked on them and he wasnt breathing with his mouth wide open and his frills half out. I picked him up and all this blood stained saliva come gushing out.
I couldnt believe how stupid i am as in the past i have always cut there heads off with scissors, i feel as if i killed him myself.


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

all these stories whether anyone believes them or not result in the death of someones pet,which they have cared for and loved,i cant offer any proof either way,maybe someone somewhere can replicate the stomach acid of certain lizards and we would know for sure,i dont feed morio,leo too small and they bit my son,i occ feed mini mealies crushed only as rumour or not i wanted to be confident in what i feed,end of the day myth or fact its just so very sad,sorry for your loss Dan and anyone else whos experienced this


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## Furless-Friends (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok this has been going round my head all night and I do have just a thought to throw to the pot. 

Yopu mentioned there was alot of blood inside the hole but none on the outside.to me personally this would suggest that the waterdragon had died then the morio had burrowed. If the morio had burrowed from the inside out then the blood would have been smeared out onto the skin? ie the covered worm would spread the blood as it came out.

I'm NOT saying it didnt happen. I know what these evil little buggers are like!

There is noone here doubting what you say m8.... and theres not ONE person not gutted for your loss.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

i'm really sorry to hear about your water dragon.
even if nobody can prove it maybe everyone can be more careful in future when feeding mealworms etc.... just to be on the safe side.
my college always made us cut the heads of them, but i've asked vets and they said the acid should kill them. :roll: whos knows maybe one day it'll be proven either way. lets hope sooner rather than later x


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

All I can add is that, I lost 2 chalemeleons, one in 05 and one in 06 and within a very short time, there were mealies / morios 'eating' the corpse. It happens VERY quickly.

I guess none of us know what really happened, I feel for you mate.

Gary


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

shame to read, i think if i saw this happen to one of my reptiles i probably would take a picture to show people so then they dont just shrug it off. Never had this type of problem feeding morios, i dont feed them geckos as i dont think they are that capable of them anyway but my chameleon, the beardies and the boscs all get them. They have a nice crunch :lol:


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

BADGERS MUM said:


> all these stories whether anyone believes them or not result in the death of someones pet,which they have cared for and loved,i cant offer any proof either way,maybe someone somewhere can replicate the stomach acid of certain lizards and we would know for sure,i dont feed morio,leo too small and they bit my son,i occ feed mini mealies crushed only as rumour or not i wanted to be confident in what i feed,end of the day myth or fact its just so very sad,sorry for your loss Dan and anyone else whos experienced this


this has been done with calci sand, the replication of stomach acid, so i dont see why it wouldnt be possible doing it to test morio worm digestion but even so, some species of reptile eat slower, some have different strengths of stomach acid.
read that an american fed his white throat monitor a live chick and he could hear it cheeping in its throat for several minutes, though it is said that the stomach acid would kill instantly


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

Blazey said:


> Never had this type of problem feeding morios, i dont feed them geckos


But other people may!!!!!:lol2:


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

i never said they didnt.


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

sorry, it was the way i read it........you dont feed your morios, geckos.

sick sense of humour. sorry.


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

i agree they all eat differently prob have different acid strengths too,just a thought really


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

if anyone is now worried about feeding mealworms to their animals.. and has already bought some mealworms..

then by all means send them to me, my lot all love them..

if you really want revenge on mealies.. send them to me, and i shall take a pic of them being skinned, peeled and devoured by the Sugar Gliders.. or if you prefer.. chomped and scrunched by the Skunk.. 

if i could afford a kilo of mealies a week, i would buy and use them easily..

for the record.. all my lizards and most of my mammals are fed meal worms.. & i've never had a problem with them eating my animals.. 

i too have been told of stories where people suspect mealies to have "burrowed out of the body" but have yet to see anything concrete.. or to actually hear of any concrete evidence of this occuring.. 

i think people forget that animals can suffer from sudden death, just as humans can... even a healthy animal could suffer a brain haemorrage, or a heart attack for no reason.. a mealworm will eat into a corpse as soon as it comes across it.. a recently dead corpse will not have stiffened, so it will be even quicker to get past the skin barrier into the flesh.. from the pics, the WD was very small, i personally don't think it would have taken more than a few moments for the skin to be breached once the animal was dead.. and as for where it came out.. well it could have tunneled in by the back leg and come out the throat going via the body cavity..

the only way to tell for sure, if the WD was killed by the meal worm tunneling out of its body, would be to take it for a post mortem, something you can't do as its buried... other wise its just speculation really..

even a CB waterdragon could have had a genetically flawed heart.. causing her to drop dead with no warning... in this situation, being left for a few hours with mealies present, i would acutally expect to see that they had started on the corpse, and been suprised had they not.. 

anyway.. like i said, if anyone wants to get rid of mealies they have bought, do please send them this way, i can never have enough of them!

Nerys


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

i wouldnt mind some sent to me either, all my babies devour them too fast and i always run out  im sure nerys will let me have a few aswell :crazy:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

i have said that it is my opinion, and what i think. i cannot gaurentee that it did/didnt tunnel out. 

it may have been that just after eating she died, and because she was dead it could come out easily. 

or she choked while eating it head first, and it didnt reach the stomach. 

as for size, she has never had a problem. chews for 5sec ish, and swallows. looking at it in a slightly calmer mood, i do think that it is unlikely (not impossible) if it happens to one in a million, then because of the huge numberof reps kept, then this will crop up. 

people are to distressed at their dead pet to run for the camera and take a few snaps, most of the pics of dead animals are taken by vets etc. doing a post mortum 

thelack of blood outside, shows that the skin was broken after death, but the blood inside leans to the the wound being open before death. (or the heart/lungs being breeched after death (i watch alot of diagnosis murder, and discovery channel)

thankyou all for your kind words, it helps knowing people care.


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## Nursey (Feb 27, 2005)

Awww so sorry to here this dan if you still want to feed mealies as a treat then just cut the heads off or do as i do and put them in boiling water for a min softens the shell and makes sure their dead.

there has been a few stories involving mealies from animals suffering impaction or from mealies chewing the stomach, more so in beardies and water dragons as these 2 tend to hardly chew the worms before swallowing.

deepest wishes to you mate


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

whether anyone believes it or not i dont see the point of risking it just for the sake of crushing a few heads, its not exatly hard, you wouldnt take all the guards off of your bulbs/heaters just because you werer told you didnt need them, I heard of this before and decided to crush heads just in case.
Darkdan99, sorry for your loss mate
R.I.P. WD


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## Nursey (Feb 27, 2005)

markhill said:


> whether anyone believes it or not i dont see the point of risking it just for the sake of crushing a few heads, its not exatly hard, you wouldnt take all the guards off of your bulbs/heaters just because you werer told you didnt need them, I heard of this before and decided to crush heads just in case.
> Darkdan99, sorry for your loss mate
> R.I.P. WD


exactly how i think, a hand full in a jug of boiling water takes no timea and crushing heads what a brilliant stress reliever and puts ya mind at rest


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Just to clarify.

I only questioned this in an attempt to stop incorrect information spreading.

If i thought for one minute that this has happened to any animal then i would happily crush heads etc etc. As it stands though i don't and while i am not going to tell people not to do what ever they feel they need to i will say i don't and will never actually tell people to do it.


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## damo (Jan 4, 2007)

*Sorry*

HI M8,

SORRY TO HEAR THAT,TOOK YOUR ADVISE IN MIND....

DAMO


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

the wd in question looks far too small to be eating morio worms anyway.i think what people have to learn from this is do not feeding large prey to small animals.
do not leave your small reps alone whilst eating.
carelessness costs lives i think the saying goes.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

> the wd in question looks far too small to be eating morio worms anyway.i think what people have to learn from this is do not feeding large prey to small animals.
> do not leave your small reps alone whilst eating.
> carelessness costs lives i think the saying goes.


Bit insensitive dont you think? Hes just lost his pet and youre basically saying its his fault. Please keep it to yourself hes clearly upset by it all (as anyone would be) and i dont think thats very constructive


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## martin day (May 18, 2006)

when feeding mealworms its best to buy large ones as the lizard will chew it up and can just swallow in one which could result in them biteing your lizard from the inside its a real shame whats happend to your lizard m8 
i once found a baby house martin which fell from my roof i rang a vets and they said to try feeding it some mealworms but crush there head as the bird will swallow them hole and they would kill it
when i feed my tegu mealworms he chews them like mad, reading this thread has opend my eyes its not worth the risk im not goign to use them anymore ill try wax worms instead has anyone heard of any problems with them?


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

i did ask this and some1 said waxies are fine,infact they said they are soft as shite,ive never had any bite me at all and i keep them in my hands to warm them up after getting them out the fridge,but ive witness mealies cannibalistic traits,in form of eating crix that are not quite dead,think thats why ppl feed dried mealworm to birds


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

insensitive?? this guy is always making mistakes as far as his reps go.squashed his gecko no long ago...i suppose thats not his fault either? cant afford to keep making mistakes with reps.:bash:


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## martin day (May 18, 2006)

who are you on about?


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

martin day said:


> who are you on about?


a short while ago, a rock fell on one of my fan footed geckos, kiling her. youll find the whole story on another thread.

this is a totaly differnt situation.

i mentioned to a friend who keeps BD that the WD swallowed 3/4 meals whole at one time, without chewing and i thought this wasnt good 4 her. so he said move up a size, and one size up from large meal worms is med morio and she chewed these so i thought it would be ok. 

and six days after this hapens.

retic, im fine with you, you have every right to ask questions you only want to know the truth, sorry i cant give anything more concrete


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

hey weenminx.... i prolly speak for most here when i say

*GET OUT OF THE THREAD PLEASE!*


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

cheers dean tbh i dont really mind her...i made that mistake with the geckos, and this event was hardly my fault, and i know this so i can deal with the comments. 

i blew my top last time because it was my fault, people kept telling me this, and the truth hurts. as for keep amking mistake. we all make mistakes, and pay for them, i have made one mistake with the FFG, and still feel guilty. i feel bad for the WD, and upset that i have lost her, but i dont think it was my fault tbh. i have spme responsibility, because she is in my care.

if i had been watching her i would not have been able to do anything, my nearest rep vet is a train ride away, and i dont drive, i would have whatched her suffer not being able to help, OR would have watched her die of unknown cause and been really worried about my other WD, and came on here asking why a sudden death, depending of which course of events we belive.

as it goes my male is fine, and has just eaten a mix of crix and locust.

can we please not turn this thread into ANOTHER arguement please?


----------



## Nursey (Feb 27, 2005)

DeanThorpe said:


> hey weenminx.... i prolly speak for most here when i say
> 
> *GET OUT OF THE THREAD PLEASE!*


 Here Here

At the end of the day dan has lost a rep and is feeling upset and like cr*p
he dont need people coming in and rubbing salt in the wound making him sound like he is no good
so he has made a mistake previously whats the saying... we learn by our mistakes..


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## Ukjay (Mar 1, 2005)

darkdan99 said:


> can we please not turn this thread into ANOTHER arguement please?


Here here we dont need arguements when this is a post of someone obviously upset by the loss of his water dragon


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## Razaiel (Oct 17, 2006)

Agreed. I've seen this thread late but I'm really sorry to hear of your loss, Dan - I know what it's like when a beloved pet suddenly dies  (we need a *HUGS* smiley)


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## partisan (Jan 5, 2007)

R.I.P....... im so sorry to hear that..last night 1 of my little babys bd died as well,i found him on the floor of the viv this morning missing an eye , i also was feeding them live meal worms...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

sorry for your loss too mate, welcome to the forum.


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## partisan (Jan 5, 2007)

thanks..when i found him in the morning i could not believe it ,he was on the floor on his back and about 5/6cm away was the worm with his arse missing ...and now the other 3 look scared they don't want to come down to eat feed..usually as soon as i put crickets in they go mad ,its been few hours now and they just run away from anything that moves​


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Have to say summit, i crushed a mealworms head the other day and gave it to our leo.. i only "killed" it cos i wasnt sure if he was gona take it and i dint have time to wait and see and i didnt want it getting into an awkward place..
anyway.. it was gone the next morn, this morn i think... then i moved his water bowl and it was under there..picked it up to throw it away along with the leo poo and...it was alive.....i then offered it to him and he took it..so.. i dont think they die as easy as one might think you know.. i mean..its head WAS CRUSHED and it didnt move, and still hadnt moved hours later but by next morning it had..and was alive.. so i just think guys u should try it..do ur usual head crushing, leave one for a day and see if its still dead.. just to see


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## partisan (Jan 5, 2007)

i just put all my worms in to freezer from now on its hand feeding ....


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## Venomous Poison (Jan 12, 2007)

sorry to hear about terri


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

Wow people need to chill... :-|

Minx made two recommendations, one of which no-one had mentioned so far on this thread.

1. Do not feed overly large food items to your animals
2. Supervise when feeding livefood to small animals

Why then have people jumped on her? It's good advice and I thought that's what these forums are for?? :?

Someone posted about how the unguarded spotlights on another thread might be dangerous and they should have guards fitted, but no-one had a go at them about that piece of advice.... Maybe I should go give them abuse for trying to help too :roll:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

sorry to hear of your loss also, thoughts with you.

dean, i just went to the garden to look, and 3 of the ones i stamped are alive, and wiggling, but havent moved, some may have ran away, but its on an isolated slab at the back of my garden, so if any did go off, they are long gone, the ones i looked ar, one is missing half of its body, and is stuck to the slab, but is still grabbing if somthing is near to its head. when i detached it it started walking, slowly. 

this is 1/2 a morio left for 26+ hours in the cold. 

the other 2 alive, are sluggish, and v.near death. 

they are hardy little beggers, i have left some without food/water for over a month and they have been all alive without any nousihment (unless they had eaten their brothers) 

a real sucsess story these beetles are...

can somone put one in bleach, and another in vinagar to see what happens in a high acid/alkali situation, out of interest, i would do it myself, but i have none.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

Oldelpaso, if you read what i said, i simply said that she was being insensitive as she was telling the poor guy that its his fault! Whether it was correct or not theres a time and place and a way to say things without blaming and making people feel worse than they already do. I believe that the way others reacted also proves that a little more tact was needed on weeminx's part. Thats all i was suggesting that she save it for a better and less hurtfull place.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Wow people need to chill... :-|
> 
> Minx made two recommendations, one of which no-one had mentioned so far on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
just for the record




darkdan99 said:


> tbh i dont really mind her...i made that mistake with the geckos, and this event was hardly my fault, and i know this so i can deal with the comments.
> 
> i blew my top last time because it was my fault, people kept telling me this, and the truth hurts. as for keep amking mistake. we all make mistakes, and pay for them, i have made one mistake with the FFG, and still feel guilty. i feel bad for the WD, and upset that i have lost her, but i dont think it was my fault tbh. i have spme responsibility, because she is in my care.
> 
> ...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

> the wd in question looks far too small to be eating morio worms anyway.i think what people have to learn from this is do not feeding large prey to small animals.
> do not leave your small reps alone whilst eating.
> carelessness costs lives i think the saying goes.


 


> insensitive?? this guy is always making mistakes as far as his reps go.squashed his gecko no long ago...i suppose thats not his fault either? cant afford to keep making mistakes with reps.:bash:


was refering to those comments..

It wasnt put in the way you just said, if it were it would have been "good advice" but as it was it was Nasty, and very unthoughtfull under the circumstances and in general... not the first comment as such but the follow up just says it all in my opinion.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

your all being nice, with good intentions, but dont argue, there is no point and it ends up with one or more PO'ed members. can we all let this drop, and continue the discussionabout meal/morio worms etc. 

thanks

(i know i can be an argumentative little shit at times, but this isnt one of them )


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> was refering to those comments


Yeah the second bit was a bit artistic :? 

But the first post was very valid...

Dan your mealies must come from Krypton or something! lol The mealie I squashed and took the tail off of yesterday didn't last more than 25-30mins at 84f (torture for purely scientific purposes :devil


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

yeh cool.

guys, seriously, test the "if the worm is really dead" thing cos i thought this sucker was dead... and there has been comments about they wouldnt live lopng with half thier tail gone etc and i think its worth experimenting with.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Yeah the second bit was a bit artistic :?
> 
> But the first post was very valid...
> 
> Dan your mealies must come from Krypton or something! lol The mealie I squashed and took the tail off of yesterday didn't last more than 25-30mins at 84f (torture for purely scientific purposes :devil


yeh they dry up in direct heat quite quick lol, i put about 50 on a bird table last summer and they were toast in an hour lol.

but they CAN take some physical abuse.

and artistic? lol


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> yeh they dry up in direct heat quite quick lol, i put about 50 on a bird table last summer and they were toast in an hour lol.
> 
> but they CAN take some physical abuse.
> 
> and artistic? lol


A nicer way of saying over the top lol :halo:

My test subject wasn't in direct heat though, maybe I should incorporate some in my next experiment. Blow torch..? :devil: 

The room is heated so it was around 80f - 84f at the time. It's a bit nippy in here now though at 76f...


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

i think it has alot to do with the circumstace, and the individal lavea. 

as i say, i squashed around 50, and 3 deffinatly survived, others may have but...well who knows.

they also have the "even though i am dead im will wiggle for hours" reflex, which cant be good inside an animal either!

and i'm with dean, they just dont die easily through a beating lol


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

Darkdan,
sorry about your loss I know your cheesed off, but can you stop the foul language ond the use of the C word.


slither61


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i think any and all foul language has stopped already mate.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

slither61 said:


> Darkdan,
> sorry about your loss I know your cheesed off, but can you stop the foul language ond the use of the C word.
> 
> 
> slither61


have just edited previous posts, and i appologise for previous langusge. please understand that these posts were written within an hour of the events, not that, that is an excuse. there is no excuse for that language, but some things do PO me so much that i say (and type) these things. 

sorry to you, slither, and anyone else who was offended.

if a mod could change the title of the thread it would be appricited, it wont let me.


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## partisan (Jan 5, 2007)

after shocking start of the day,i put 2 tubs of mealies in the freezer about five hours later i took them out to see,shore enough they were all solid frozen i left them out for round half hour when i got back most of them were dead but a bout half a dozen or so (from 2 tubs together) were very slowly wriggling i left 3of them out in the sun for a bout five min and they died,and couple more inside they last just under 20 min.......


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

i think the best bet is to cut heads off,that way the demons cant eat in or out! ive crushed heads but now will be chopping them off,my leo not struck on mealies anyway so prob wont buy anymore


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## Venomous Poison (Jan 12, 2007)

i certainly wont be feeding my leos any more mealies again...i know some of u are saying its only a myth but to be honest my motto is its better to be safe than sorry...and im not willing to risk the lives of my leos....rumor or not!!! dan i am so sorry to hear about your loss,my thoughts r with u!!!!


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

i've never used mealies (told theyve got too much chitin for frogs anyway!) but now im wondering about waxies?! anyone know how tough these guys are?>
I try and crush the heads before feeding but the frogs wont eat anything thasts not moving


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

waxies are nice:razz: think they must be veggie as they never eat each other


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

> waxies are nice:razz:


cant say ive ever tried one myself? imagine theyd go well with ketchup?:razz:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

:crazy: yeah they are genrally well behaved, the naturally eat honey, and bees wax so they "shouldnt" do any harm to your critters, but i crush the heads to be safe, and they do taste nice, really sweet...i ate one for a dare.:crazy:


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

errrrrr think thats why i dont do dares lol


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

lol meal worms taste like beef (off beef), but i chewed it well. and crix are vulgar, havent eaten a locut or a morio yet, brb lol


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

thats all i can say :lol2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

darkdan99 said:


> meal worms taste like beef (off beef), but i chewed it well.


I guess you didnt have that coming out of your belly button later on then?

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Wow people need to chill... :-|
> 
> Minx made two recommendations, one of which no-one had mentioned so far on this thread.
> 
> ...


Because Its nice to have the support of fellow reptile keepers, but its a different story when there's the odd one that throws in frankly spiteful comments (and its not the first time between the same two parties might I add), there is no need for it, yes her recommendations make perfect sense, the manner in which she states her opinion, is not (IMO) reasonable, and somewhat uncouth.

As for the bulb guard, that was me that the advice was offered to, I have no bulb guards. When I was offered advice I gave my reasons for choosing NOT to use them, (one of my agamas got his tail through one and broke it within months of me buying them). I have never had a burn suffered with my reps in 15 years or more, so I am happy to go without. 

And I appreciated the advice that was offered within that thread, there are others out there that are new to reps or are unaware of the potential for and against arguments (hopefully some of them will read that thread and form their own opinion), point being, it was a constructive response, and much appreciated. Nobody posted "OMG you completely heartless, irresponsible child, if you dont use heat bulb Guards you shouldnt be allowed to keep reptiles", lol. And if they had said anything of the sort I'd tell em where to sling their attitude because I have my reasons for my practices, and am a responsible owner. 

I sympathise greatly with Dan, he seems to have a lot of time for his reps, and after the mouthful he got recently after one of his lizard escaped, I think it was very brave and appropriate for him to advise others of his loss and the reasons he beleives to have caused it, there are a lot of posts on the preceding pages that agree, and although opinions on cause of death differ they are, for the most part constructive in what they say. 

As for the guilty party, she also has apologised, and rightly so, I commend her for her thread, lol. Maybe others will follow in her footsteps and consider their choice of words before ranting, or at least apologise. Weeminx you're a brave girl, nice one, credit owed, you did well


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i dont use bulb guards either.. mainly cos they generally only fit over the poxy little bulbs and i use the normal big r80 size generally... and also cos they need to be attached to the roof etc and i hang my lights down a little lower than that would allow, if i just UPPED the wattage to get the bask at the distance then overall temp would possibly be dangerous..the dimmer would dim the bulb..and then ive just lost what ive gained through upping the wattage... so its pointless in many cases.

Also yeh, easier to climb a cage than keep in contact with a bulbm u know the 2 second rule guys coem one... getting tangles or keeping hold of a slightly cooler but still really hot cage will do more damage than a "whats this...fuk that im off" on the bulb.


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

Yes I've seen all that was said and the bit about squashing a gecko may have been a bit over the top, but all was apologised for now.

I still don't see why this post caused so much offence though, all valid points:



> the wd in question looks far too small to be eating morio worms anyway.i think what people have to learn from this is do not feeding large prey to small animals.
> do not leave your small reps alone whilst eating.
> carelessness costs lives i think the saying goes.


As it was after that post everyone went a bit mental... :?

Maybe it's because there's 'history' with members on here. If you did get a burnt reptile from an unguarded bulb and someone posted the following, I wouldn't hurl abuse at them like what happened here. Then again I don't know what's gone on before amongst you lot :help:

_ "the bulb in question needs a guard! i think what people have to learn from this cover all spotlights and ceramics.
do not leave your reps alone around exposed heat sources.
carelessness costs lives i think the saying goes."_


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

YES IT WOULD HAVE CAUSED [sorry caps] offence as it would have been in a thread showing off an aonle viv withing a stack which came about when someone asked ppl to post anole viv set ups pics..

would have been really out of order, but weenminx wasnt out of order in that thread and once GAN1 said she doesnt use guards and gave a reason or 2 no argumanet occured.

No history is rellevant in this case nor would it have been in that one.

If the title of the thread ws "my anole has a burn..please tell me why im confused" it would have been a VERY VERY FAIR COMMENT, still was a fair comment but u know what i mean.


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

darkdan99 said:


> lol meal worms taste like beef (off beef), but i chewed it well. and crix are vulgar, havent eaten a locut or a morio yet, brb lol


Locusts on their own are a bit bitter. You'd best take the wings and legs off if they're big ones too. Or try them as an additional ingredient with another dish.

Here I had locusts with Cookies and Cream Hagen Dazs... :thumb:


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> YES IT WOULD HAVE CAUSED [sorry caps] offence as it would have been in a thread showing off an aonle viv withing a stack which came about when someone asked ppl to post anole viv set ups pics..
> 
> would have been really out of order, but weenminx wasnt out of order in that thread and once GAN1 said she doesnt use guards and gave a reason or 2 no argumanet occured.
> 
> ...


Ah well, maybe I'm just not as sensitive or pro-active as you lot 

If I had anything wrong with any pics I posted I'd be glad if someone pointed it out... :razz:


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

LMOA, that's exactly what I mean 

Either way, its not very constructive lol, I hope the imaginary poster that wrote that regretted it later, LMAO, thats shocking :bash: 

Anyway, its not necessary for a billion other members to jump on the bandwagon and get angry, or seek revenge on the part of someone else, but I sure hope the person who writes it goes back and edits before anyone reads it, or indeed apologises when they've calmed down. Anyway, DD's happy and so's WM and thats what matters.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

PS I've had to throw my lunch away after seeing that bowl of hoppers in milk


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

gan1 said:


> PS I've had to throw my lunch away after seeing that bowl of hoppers in milk


Soz lol


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

i use bulb guards, you can usually find big enough ones from most pet suppliers and if not, they are apparently really easy to build. I only use one out of the two of my bulbs though because don can only reach one and its quite low down. 
I have burnt my hand on a bulb myself many a time so i wouldnt want my babies to get burnt.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Soz lol


Lol, no worries, I was just eating for the sake of it really. If you can reassure me you didnt actually eat that then I'll be fine


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## Morts (Dec 16, 2006)

You must be the unluckiest reptile owner i've ever heard of, i've only a couple of months and you've already had 2 or 3 pets die :-|


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Morts said:


> You must be the unluckiest reptile owner i've ever heard of, i've only a couple of months and you've already had 2 or 3 pets die :-|


Very sensitive of you to say so too. Nice to hear you sympathise with him like the rest of us :bash:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

olde passo.

im unsure whetehr ur trying to start me off or not... cos u just keep comin back with more...

Dude.. basically thats the point, theres nothing wrong with our vivs.. if someone does it differently ok but whos to say whos rigth?
so again, thats the problem when ppl get in there with "ur doing this wrong" its not constructive, its not that im pro active or whatever, its that im not shy enough or weak enough to say "oh, gosh ok ill do what you say" and niehter is gan1.

I think we best drop it now.

And personalyl the locusts in milk... got me hungry and iwent and had cheeseburgers straight after.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Blazey said:


> i use bulb guards, you can usually find big enough ones from most pet suppliers and if not, they are apparently really easy to build. I only use one out of the two of my bulbs though because don can only reach one and its quite low down.
> I have burnt my hand on a bulb myself many a time so i wouldnt want my babies to get burnt.


 
so u just use guards on the ones that are a danger? good... same here.. none of mine happen to be a danger but if they were they would be guarded...er.. or moved.


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## oldelpaso (Nov 28, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> olde passo.
> 
> im unsure whetehr ur trying to start me off or not... cos u just keep comin back with more...
> 
> ...


Have I missed something? I haven't made any comments about you or your vivs?? :-?

Just looking at your sig I can see what lizards you have, and to be honest I not much of a lizard person so wouldn't have looked at any threads with your lizards in apart from the leo. All I did was *make up *a *hypothetical* scenario where an animal was injured via a practice that's 'controversial'. Like the whole mealworm thing. I haven't seen any of your vivs so couldn't comment on them or gan1's for that matter...

If it makes you any happier, instead of using 'spotlight' in my previous example, use 'heat mat in viv on top of substrate', or 'food dusted with nutrobol every feed' or any other example of debatable husbandry/feeding methods :thumb:

Just to make clear - I have not 'judged' you or anyone else for doing *anything* wrong with any kind of heat/light source. I don't keep any reptiles that would need spotlights or anything so it's not a subject I would want to comment on in a forum 8)


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## shipo.1066 (Dec 16, 2006)

i am so sorry to hear of your loss and to go in such a tragic way. our thoughts are with you.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

im surprised this thread is still going.i have apologised to darkdan in another thread.do i have to do it here too? i admit i was a bi**h about his last mistakes and his other rep dying it was uncalled for.(as some1 put on my reputation thingy).BUT i still stand by my opinion that small reps shouldnt be fed overly large prey and if they are being fed large prey shouldnt be left unattended.as accidents can happen.  
and from now on im going to sit on the forum with my hands taped behind my back.:lol2:
kisses minx xxx:razz:


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## gemthegem (Jan 14, 2007)

I never knew that could happen. im so sorry for your loss.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

oldelpaso said:


> Have I missed something? I haven't made any comments about you or your vivs?? :-?
> 
> Just looking at your sig I can see what lizards you have, and to be honest I not much of a lizard person so wouldn't have looked at any threads with your lizards in apart from the leo. All I did was *make up *a *hypothetical* scenario where an animal was injured via a practice that's 'controversial'. Like the whole mealworm thing. I haven't seen any of your vivs so couldn't comment on them or gan1's for that matter...
> 
> ...


hey.
Nooo dude, i know u havent, i was going on your same example with the bulb guards etc.
sugesting that its not just helpfull advice if the person involved isnt necesarily clueless.

Sorry i think we may have been talking at corss purposes.
I thought we were talking about the same thing, that being weenminxs comments, u changed the detaisl so they apply to another circumstance and i was just saying it still stands about the way to say things.

For the record nobody has passed any negative judgment on any of my vivs as i wouldnt expect them too as to be honest..im not a dimwit and if someone tells me im doing summit wrong, ill take it more as "different to them" and find it a bit rude as i dont tell other ppl the are doing things wrong just cos its different to me, i just say well i do it this way cos of this reason so maybe it might help in your problem.. if theres not a problem i tend to leave it alone unless i think its very important or dangerous ofcourse.
Lives come first, pride second.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

people, can we let this drop. we have established that firstly, there is doubt that the morio killed terrie, secondly, we all have differnt methods of husbandry, and in this field, there are alot of opinions about correct husbandy, best/worst prodcts, and vivarium heating/decor. 

if you ask every BD, leo, or corn keeper in the world, no two will have the same method. there are some bad things, and some better that we all do, none of these are necassarily wrong. but we should deffinatly stop arguing. we all do thing differntly, live with it. 

i use bulb gaurds in some of my vivs, but being metal, they get to a simaler temp to the bulb anyway, and retain he heat forlonger after it is turned off so i have often wondered why? maybewe should have plastice gaurds that insulate against the heat better.


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi darkdan, 

Thanks for editing posts, I feel for your loss, its a shame they did not tell you this could happen at the shop where you got them from.

I was going to buy some for my Green Anoles and was told not to use them as they could eat their way out.
Look after yourself mate.

slither61


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## 1949_sam (Jan 21, 2007)

*Hi dan i'am so sorry to hear of your loss....*

*R.I.P Terri....*

*Sorry for such a late post night work hate it....*

*My thoughts are with you...*

*Sam*


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## Mrs Meldrew (Oct 5, 2006)

Sorry to hear your rotten news....


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## Blazey (Apr 30, 2006)

not all bulb guards get as hot as the bulb. some are made from metals that dont conduct heat as easily and are coated better than others to not keep the heat. I have 2 bulb guards at the mo, ones coated and ones made out of flimsy metal, they both dont keep heat well and I can touch them without getting hurt, whereas when i wored at the pet shop, i got burnt all the time from the guards they used.

I think its important to use bulb guards with aboreal species who may climb on bulbs, particular sticky toed species, and if your bulbs hang low enough to be in reaching distance.

As an example, not to cause trouble, hammerman had a bosc which simonc now has which got some burns by a bad choice of moving the viv around and the bosc has slight scarring and there was a vet bill to be paid for his mistake. Bulb guards can lower the risk of burns as well as having good viv arrangement. The bosc said is healthy but it is a shame for it to have gone through that.


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## G3ckoowner (Jul 22, 2021)

darkdan99 said:


> ifed my waterdragons about 3 hours ago, morio worms i a bowl and crix and locust loose in th viv, as alway. i returnd 20 mins ago to find terri laying dead on the floor with a morio worn tunneld out of her throat. when i turned the light on, because i saw her laying on the floor, it retreated back inside of her. i am so pissed, and really upset.
> 
> my advice is never feed worms. i read about crushing the heads but "experianced " keepers say not to bother becuse it is a myth, and they will eat them better if they are alive. tell that to my dead WD.
> 
> ...





darkdan99 said:


> ifed my waterdragons about 3 hours ago, morio worms i a bowl and crix and locust loose in th viv, as alway. i returnd 20 mins ago to find terri laying dead on the floor with a morio worn tunneld out of her throat. when i turned the light on, because i saw her laying on the floor, it retreated back inside of her. i am so pissed, and really upset.
> 
> my advice is never feed worms. i read about crushing the heads but "experianced " keepers say not to bother becuse it is a myth, and they will eat them better if they are alive. tell that to my dead WD.
> 
> ...





darkdan99 said:


> ifed my waterdragons about 3 hours ago, morio worms i a bowl and crix and locust loose in th viv, as alway. i returnd 20 mins ago to find terri laying dead on the floor with a morio worn tunneld out of her throat. when i turned the light on, because i saw her laying on the floor, it retreated back inside of her. i am so pissed, and really upset.
> 
> my advice is never feed worms. i read about crushing the heads but "experianced " keepers say not to bother becuse it is a myth, and they will eat them better if they are alive. tell that to my dead WD.
> 
> ...


I recently got a leopard gecko and all he eats are these worms I dont know what else to feed him  any tips??


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## RumbaAsul (May 1, 2020)

G3ckoowner said:


> I recently got a leopard gecko and all he eats are these worms I dont know what else to feed him * any tips??*


Don't believe all you read, or at the very least ?don't take them at face value, if your husbandry is good and your gecko is large enough morio worms shouldn't cause any problems.

And in future don't necro threads, post a new topic instead.


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