# Please Help! I think my frog is sick



## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

Today I checked my red eyed tree frogs and noticed that one of them had blotches of a yellowish colour along with some black patches and white spots (not his natural ones). The rest of him is extremely dark green. He has been awake all day and is very lathargic. My other frog appears to be fine, looks and behaves as normal.

They have humidity at a constant 80%, they were last fed about 6 crix between then Friday night, both look as if they have eaten. They have clean water and everything has been normal in the tank. From my research it seems to look like either MBD or Oodinium, but I'm not sure. I live in a small town and will have to wait till tomorrow to see a vet as we only have one so please do not nag me on that unless you can give me the number of an emergency vet!

Here is pictures of him earlier 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/members/snookers-albums-orion-picture42184-img00067-20090712-1737.jpg

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/members/snookers-albums-orion-picture42183-img00066-20090712-1737.jpg

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/members/snookers-albums-orion-picture42182-img00065-20090712-1737.jpghttp://www.reptileforums.co.uk/memb...rion-picture42184-img00067-20090712-1737.html


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

that frog looks quiet sick. the white spots are normal, and the only time i have seen blotchyness is when part has been shaded from the light. Are you using any artifical lighting?
Handling the frog without gloves on will not do any good, the salts and toxins in your skin will do damage, and your dry hands will damage there skin.
I would suggest moving him to a seperate tank til you see a vet, drop the humidity incase it is a fungal infection and keep him warm. dont use any substrate but provide hiding places. offer food but dont leave any uneaten crix in there.

6 crix between 2 frogs since friday does not sound like enough food. they should of had atleast 6-8 each in that space of time.

MDB is a bone dissorder and is more common in young juveniles. MDB makes the bones disformed/twisted. aslon as you are providing the correct balance of vitamins and calcium (D3) i would be supprised if it was that.

How long have you had them? what size are they (snv)?


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## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for your reply, I don't usually handle them, it was only because he was sick so I could look at him properly. I don't have gloves but I washed my hands with water and NO SOAP. I feed them every other day which is why they had that many crickets. They are adults, 2 inches long and I've had them 2 months but they are 2 years old. He is now in a separate tank, sleeping, his black patches have gone and he's now a lighter green like the other frog.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

well you have done the right thing. best chance you cn give this guy is to get him to a vet. they can do screening and test and can prescribe medication if needed. keep us posted


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## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks again for your reply, I forgot to mention that I don't use any artificial lighting, but they are in the same room as my turtle who has a UVB bulb on during the day if that would make a difference? I will keep you posted


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

oh no, not another one


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Every sick red eye tree frog on this forum ends up dying no matter what you do. It must be in their nature. I wouldn't bother wasting time and money going to the vet just for it to die the next day. There won't be anything you can do and that one looks really bad. If someone like Javeo can't save his, after his started to get better and with his experience, then I don't think there's any hope. I'm not being mean but once a red eye gets sick it seems that thats it, it's going to die. Sad but true


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

andaroo said:


> Every sick red eye tree frog on this forum ends up dying no matter what you do. It must be in their nature. I wouldn't bother wasting time and money going to the vet just for it to die the next day. There won't be anything you can do and that one looks really bad. If someone like Javeo can't save his, after his started to get better and with his experience, then I don't think there's any hope. I'm not being mean but once a red eye gets sick it seems that thats it, it's going to die. Sad but true


How can you say going to see a vet is a waste of time?
not all sick red eyes die, and the ones that do are because they have not seen a vet. Javeo was unlucky with his and did not visit a vet but that alone dont mean that sick red eyes cant be saved. A bacterial infection or fungus can be treated and there is medication for MBD so YES a vet can help.

To tell some one not to visit a vet is nieve and shows the lack of experience of some members of this forum.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

My thoughts as well andaroo, it seems there is little that can be done to save them. Ive had dartfrogs get ill, but respond really well to medication/isolation. But doing the same for red eyes seems to have little affect. All the retfs that have died recently seem to go blotchy, as did mine, before they die.
Knighty I did visit a vet, she gave me the glucose and mineral thing to bathe him in.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

knighty said:


> How can you say going to see a vet is a waste of time?
> not all sick red eyes die, and the ones that do are because they have not seen a vet. Javeo was unlucky with his and did not visit a vet but that alone dont mean that sick red eyes cant be saved. A bacterial infection or fungus can be treated and there is medication for MBD so YES a vet can help.
> 
> To tell some one not to visit a vet is nieve and shows the lack of experience of some members of this forum.


Jen and ilovetoads took theirs to the vet, and they both died.

My toad looked like that frog the day it died, it'd be surprised if its still alive...

I am not naive, being realistic is not naive. There's a slim chance the frog will survive, so why bother wasting time and money going to see a vet and getting treatment for it to die soon after?

You shouldn't be giving this person false hope.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

andaroo said:


> Jen and ilovetoads took theirs to the vet, and they both died.
> 
> My toad looked like that frog the day it died, it'd be surprised if its still alive...
> 
> ...



i am not giving him false hope i am pointing him in the dirretion of the frogs only chance. If you are worried about seeing a vet being a waste of money you should not be keeping reps or amphibians. No one here knows the problem with this red eye and he may well be able to be save.

If you are prepared to just let your animals die to save a few quid then thats your choice. does not mean that every one else should do the same.

You seem like you are simply basing your knowledge on other people of this forums experiences which to be honest is nieve.....




Javeo said:


> Knighty I did visit a vet, she gave me the glucose and mineral thing to bathe him in.


sorry dude did not think you had. but what androo is saying about not wasting time or money on a vet is what gives herp keepers a bad name. Each individual frog deserves its own fighting chance no matter what the cost.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

knighty said:


> i am not giving him false hope i am pointing him in the dirretion of the frogs only chance. If you are worried about seeing a vet being a waste of money you should not be keeping reps or amphibians. No one here knows the problem with this red eye and he may well be able to be save.
> 
> If you are prepared to just let your animals die to save a few quid then thats your choice. does not mean that every one else should do the same.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more with your sentiments on this topic Knighty :gasp:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

knighty said:


> i am not giving him false hope i am pointing him in the dirretion of the frogs only chance. If you are worried about seeing a vet being a waste of money you should not be keeping reps or amphibians. No one here knows the problem with this red eye and he may well be able to be save.
> 
> If you are prepared to just let your animals die to save a few quid then thats your choice. does not mean that every one else should do the same.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying IN ALL CASES don't bother going to the vet if there's something wrong, i took a flippin common toad to the vet an hour an half away and it died 3 days later. I'm not bothered about saving a couple of quid it's the time and effort putting in that goes to waste.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> I couldn't agree more with your sentiments on this topic Knighty :gasp:


:blush:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm not saying I wouldn't take my white's to the vet, as its a fact that they are a hardier species and respond well to treatment. 

Red eyes however are very sensitive and like i said, once they get sick its seems like thats it even with vet treatment. 

Can u find me evidence of a red eye recovering from treatment either on here or on another forum to prove me wrong?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

andaroo said:


> Can u find me evidence of a red eye recovering from treatment either on here or on another forum to prove me wrong?


i will source you some information to prove that treatment in red eyes works. I will also find you some information on deseases so that you will understand the need for a proper vetanairy examination. 

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE THIS FROG HAS THE SAME CONDITION AS THE REST. the blotchyness may be something to do with them being close to death but the cause??????

while i am gathering your information would you also like me to find you some information to read to expand your knowledge past the confides of a forum?


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

I agree with both andaroo and knighty.

I do think every frog should be given it's own fighting chance but in this case I do think taking it to a vet would be a waste of time! I lost a retf to the same thing. I have no idea why it happened, or how to prevent it happening again. One minute it was absolutely fine, the next it was just a heap. They deteriate so quickly in this condition aswell I'd be shocked if it is still alive now.

The most important thing we can do now is try and find out what the hell happens to them, in an effort to stop it happening again. Does anyone have any vet friends??


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

taking it to a vet can still be beneficial even if it does pass away. samples can be taken to try and find out what the cause of the illness was and without knowing this information how can we prevent it in future.

I can see peoples point about retf being fragile and not having a high success rate regarding treatment but to tell some one its going to die dont bother with a vet is insane! NO one on this forum can determin what is wrong with that frog by looking at a couple of pictures therefore the only person that can be of any, even if little help is a quilified vet.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I agree with knighty, but can see others opinions. I have lost frogs that have been through expensive vet treatments but i do it to try and give the frog a chance even if it is slim. I would want to give any animals or human for that matter some fighting chance if there were still possibilities. To say dont bother taken an animal to the vet because it will only deteriate is an extremely nieve point of view and in my opinion shows how uneducated someone can be with regard to treatments. 

But we all seem to be missing the huge point. There are two frogs. One is very sick, which stands a possibility of being fatal due to the nature of RETF's, the other one is not yet showing signs of illness, but this doesnt mean it wont. If the owner can get this frog to the vet and the illness can be worked out then if the other frogs develps the disease it can be treated. Which could mean that the second frog could surrive, if the disease is identified on the former. In my expereince if one frog becomse ill the second follows soon after (if sharing cages), if you can treat cage mates for the illness as soon as they are showing signs success rates greatly increase. Therefore in my opinion the owner should get the frogs to a vet if only to save its cage mate.


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

"samples can be taken to try and find out what the cause of the illness was and without knowing this information how can we prevent it in future.
"

That's a really valid point actually knighty, a thought I had overlooked in my previous post


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

check the thread i have just made, got some great info on disease and illness.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Weenoff said:


> "samples can be taken to try and find out what the cause of the illness was and without knowing this information how can we prevent it in future.
> "
> 
> That's a really valid point actually knighty, a thought I had overlooked in my previous post


You'd be surprised how often it is overlooked. I'm a big one for home treatments if the person involved has the kowledge and experience to deal with the situation but we all have our limits and have to know when to seek veternary advice. 



> check the thread i have just made, got some great info on disease and illness.


I have seen it mate, i have a few books and information sites i will add to it, but i have to try and find them online first. 

Jay


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Spikebrit said:


> You'd be surprised how often it is overlooked. I'm a big one for home treatments if the person involved has the kowledge and experience to deal with the situation but we all have our limits and have to know when to seek veternary advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I totally agree if you are 100% sure of the cause and have the tools and knowledge to help your animals then help them, BUT in serious cases a consoltation with a vet is a must.

Would be good if you can find them sites, hopefully with a big enough resource of information it will benefit all our knowledge and awareness


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## RankinsDragons12 (Jul 5, 2009)

its worth taking him to the vet keep fighting


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## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

Hey guys, unfortunately my red eye died during Sunday night so I was not able to get him to a vet yesterday  it happened really quickly, he was fine all of last week, was awake all day Sunday then turned blotchy in the afternoon and died during the night. My other red eye is still fine, I have disinfected his terrarium so I hope he stays that way. I have no idea what was wong with the one that died but to be fair I don't actually know how old he was so it could have just been age. I'm glad it was quick, that way I hope he wasn't suffering for long :sad:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Snookers said:


> Hey guys, unfortunately my red eye died during Sunday night so I was not able to get him to a vet yesterday  it happened really quickly, he was fine all of last week, was awake all day Sunday then turned blotchy in the afternoon and died during the night. My other red eye is still fine, I have disinfected his terrarium so I hope he stays that way. I have no idea what was wong with the one that died but to be fair I don't actually know how old he was so it could have just been age. I'm glad it was quick, that way I hope he wasn't suffering for long :sad:


sorry to here that.

I would still get a PM done to find the cause then you can prevent it in the futre


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I agree with the Above, save the body mand get a PM done. As this could save your other frog, as if it is a bacterial or virus infection you can treat the surriving frog before it becomes fatal. 

Jay


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sorry to hear that. 

But a big f-ing *told u so* to all those that called me naive :lol2:


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

hahaha Andaroo that made me laugh.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

andaroo said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> But a big f-ing *told u so* to all those that called me naive :lol2:


no one said it would not die i told you that your views and lack of knowledge is what makes you nieve


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