# FBH Response to the APA statement on Kempton Park



## FBHOfficial

As announced by the member Societies and the FBH in February, the FBH Kempton Park Breeders’ Meeting will not take place at the racecourse this year as the management of the venue has decided to decline the booking.

This week the APA (Animal Protection Agency) have issued a statement claiming this as their victory. 
While may be reasonable to assume that, after 5 successive years of intense pressure from these animal rights extremists, Kempton Park management have this year chosen not to put their venue and staff through this stress, Kempton Park have made no mention of any APA pressure in making their decision.

The APA comments regarding maltreatment of animals were flagrantly untrue as
- The event is overseen by an independent Animal Welfare Inspector, Tim Wass MBE former Chief Officer of the RSPCA (retired). 
- Two independent qualified vets were also present throughout the day.
- The Council inspected (under the requirements of the Pet Animals Act & Animal Welfare Act) and confirmed no problems were found and have also given written confirmation that they could find no evidence of illegal activity.
- HMRC were present with their display and went around viewing the animals and talking to traders.
- Thousands of hobbyists who are themselves experienced in the care and handling of these animals also visited the event.

The FBH has enjoyed five great years holding this event at Kempton Park and we wish them well with other animal shows held at the venue.


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## nelly1

FBHOfficial said:


> As announced by the member Societies and the FBH in February, the FBH Kempton Park Breeders’ Meeting will not take place at the racecourse this year as the management of the venue has decided to decline the booking.
> 
> This week the APA (Animal Protection Agency) have issued a statement claiming this as their victory.
> While may be reasonable to assume that, after 5 successive years of intense pressure from these animal rights extremists, Kempton Park management have this year chosen not to put their venue and staff through this stress, Kempton Park have made no mention of any APA pressure in making their decision.
> 
> The APA comments regarding maltreatment of animals were flagrantly untrue as
> - The event is overseen by an independent Animal Welfare Inspector, Tim Wass MBE former Chief Officer of the RSPCA (retired).
> - Two independent qualified vets were also present throughout the day.
> - The Council inspected (under the requirements of the Pet Animals Act & Animal Welfare Act) and confirmed no problems were found and have also given written confirmation that they could find no evidence of illegal activity.
> - HMRC were present with their display and went around viewing the animals and talking to traders.
> - Thousands of hobbyists who are themselves experienced in the care and handling of these animals also visited the event.
> 
> The FBH has enjoyed five great years holding this event at Kempton Park and we wish them well with other animal shows held at the venue.


is this being made public?
ie, media advert
or are you just posting here,where everyone knows whats, what


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## Pete Q

It's on the APA website, they claim it's down to their work over the years.


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## nelly1

Pete Q said:


> It's on the APA website, they claim it's down to their work over the years.


my point is to counter the apa,its not good putting a response on a rep forum
It needs to be seen by Joe public


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## FBHOfficial

It is also on Facebook and Twitter


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## CloudForest

surely there are grounds to sue the APA for defamation, they are making claims that the event is a market, and calling the organisers and stall holders criminals; are the APA judge and jury now too?

I suspect that the lawyers for Kempton have simply told them to wait for the upcoming ruling before accepting any more bookings - no ruling has yet been made, therefore as of right now, the APA is defaming everyone involved in the show...


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## ian14

FBHOfficial said:


> It is also on Facebook and Twitter


The FBH need to learn very quickly how to use the press. Releases like this, on reptile forums, are pointless. If, as you say, you are the face of the hobby,you need to take this further. This means harnessing the power of the press, not putting up a post on a forum that seems to be losing activity.


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## Pete Q

Nothing wrong with posting updates here, I for one look forward to seeing them, even though it's bad news, at least we have been told.

Of coarse if this is all the FBH are going to do then yeah, not much point, but WE will have OUR day in court soon.

The only pointless posts I see are personal posts in the same vein, time and time again, poking the stick on the same words someone might of said or pasted fall outs. :devil:

Lets stay together on this : victory:


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## nelly1

Pete Q said:


> Nothing wrong with posting updates here, I for one look forward to seeing them, even though it's bad news, at least we have been told.
> 
> Of coarse if this is all the FBH are going to do then yeah, not much point, but WE will have OUR day in court soon.
> 
> The only pointless posts I see are personal posts in the same vein, time and time again, poking the stick on the same words someone might of said or pasted fall outs. :devil:
> 
> Lets stay together on this : victory:


Iam together on this
It was just a question to the fbh
Yep post on here, but i have said all along that we need Joe public on side
so lets inform them of the lies


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## Pete Q

nelly1 said:


> Iam together on this
> It was just a question to the fbh
> Yep post on here, but i have said all along that we need Joe public on side
> so lets inform them of the lies


I agree, but I'm not sure how to get Joe public to care, even if lies are exposed from the APA.

It would be amazing if this could happen, love the idea , but the only thing that makes them stand up is those poor animals treated so badly spins.

I think from an angle of Animal rights is coming to you, may effect any pets ,that could work, = scare mongering ?

How do we get Joe public to care ? if they don't keep reptiles why would they ?

But I agree, we should try this a lot more, try everything.


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## nelly1

Pete Q said:


> I agree, but I'm not sure how to get Joe public to care, even if lies are exposed from the APA.
> 
> It would be amazing if this could happen, love the idea , but the only thing that makes them stand up is those poor animals treated so badly spins.
> 
> I think from an angle of Animal rights is coming to you, may effect any pets ,that could work, = scare mongering ?
> 
> How do we get Joe public to care ? if they don't keep reptiles why would they ?
> 
> But I agree, we should try this a lot more, try everything.


put a spin on the furry angle.Show the rights loonies for what they are, ie the kill rate for PETA, dispel the lies the apa print.
Show someone to be lieing and they loose trust .
Also a bit more on the education front, like the awareness day the other year


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## Pete Q

nelly1 said:


> put a spin on the furry angle.Show the rights loonies for what they are, ie the kill rate for PETA, dispel the lies the apa print.
> Show someone to be lieing and they loose trust .
> Also a bit more on the education front, like the awareness day the other year


The spin on furry's angle = scare mongering ? when the FBH tell us about up and coming possible issues there are people within our own hobby that call out " scare mongering. How do we get over this ? 

I just don't know how we can get the public to care so much, maybe I'm being negative, would the furry people want to step up if the spot light is not on them so much ?

People who see a dive in the penalty box from their football team know it's a cheat and a lie, but we still support our team.

If people want an end to keeping wild animals as pets, then the odd lie here and there is ok with them, as long as their team wins. 

One of the things we should go for is there claims on the shows being a health risk to humans, this is one of the clearest lies from them, no evidence / record of anyone becoming ill after a reptile show in something like 20 years., we could do a lot more with this.

The reptile day sounds great, do we give out info on the APA lies at those events ?


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## nelly1

Pete Q said:


> The spin on furry's angle = scare mongering ? when the FBH tell us about up and coming possible issues there are people within our own hobby that call out " scare mongering. How do we get over this ?
> 
> I just don't know how we can get the public to care so much, maybe I'm being negative, would the furry people want to step up if the spot light is not on them so much ?
> 
> People who see a dive in the penalty box from their football team know it's a cheat and a lie, but we still support our team.
> 
> If people want an end to keeping wild animals as pets, then the odd lie here and there is ok with them, as long as their team wins.
> 
> One of the things we should go for is there claims on the shows being a health risk to humans, this is one of the clearest lies from them, no evidence / record of anyone becoming ill after a reptile show in something like 20 years., we could do a lot more with this.
> 
> The reptile day sounds great, do we give out info on the APA lies at those events ?


Lets not forget that its not only reps the anti's are after
when we did the awareness day,yep we gave out info on the anti lies
We also had so many non keepers come and chat to us and see the animals.We also told them
lies about the majority of reps being wild caught and dieing within 12 month.
We as keepers are the minority of folk that can make a difference,Joe public need to know of all this.Look at the lush campaign, nothing put out about the lies and how its was legally stopped,only the rep hobby knew of this.
It simple, preach to the converted or get out to a wider audience


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## wilkinss77

my question is this: why did kempton give in to the APA this time, after ignoring their propaganda & going ahead with the shows for years? it puzzles me that this year's show is cancelled after all these years of kempton ignoring the APA.


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## CloudForest

wilkinss77 said:


> my question is this: why did kempton give in to the APA this time, after ignoring their propaganda & going ahead with the shows for years? it puzzles me that this year's show is cancelled after all these years of kempton ignoring the APA.


I very much doubt APA had much to do with it (except perhaps hassling them and telling them about the court date), I would imagine that the lawyers for Kempton have advised the management to hold off taking bookings until the upcoming ruling is complete - thats a guess though...but I very much doubt it will be the last time it happens before the final ruling


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## AndrewG

*APA's website*

APA's website states that they are against 'the trade in wildlife for pets'. I have kept reptiles for some time, and I too am against the trade in wildlife for pets. I believe that the vast majority of people in the UK are also against it. If people keep seeking out ever rarer and rarer species to keep in captivity, which are often wild caught, then we will never have the sympathy of the wider population who, lets face it, think keeping reptiles is rather odd. 

There are often WC animals at reptile meetings. 

Can I add that I too keep various captive bred animals and believe this to be fine. But when I see adverts on Facebook stating 'Just In! New shipment from Indonesia!!' or as I saw last night, 'New Shipment of South American Amphibians!!' my heart sinks. 

I don't think this sort of trade does the hobby any favours at all.


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## Pete Q

AndrewG said:


> APA's website states that they are against 'the trade in wildlife for pets'. I have kept reptiles for some time, and I too am against the trade in wildlife for pets. I believe that the vast majority of people in the UK are also against it. If people keep seeking out ever rarer and rarer species to keep in captivity, which are often wild caught, then we will never have the sympathy of the wider population who, lets face it, think keeping reptiles is rather odd.
> 
> There are often WC animals at reptile meetings.
> 
> Can I add that I too keep various captive bred animals and believe this to be fine. But when I see adverts on Facebook stating 'Just In! New shipment from Indonesia!!' or as I saw last night, 'New Shipment of South American Amphibians!!' my heart sinks.
> 
> I don't think this sort of trade does the hobby any favours at all.


 Hi Andrew.

I think you might have misquoted the APA, they are against the trade in wild animals, sure wildlife also, but what they are saying is that yours and my reptiles are wild animals, captive bred or not and they the same.


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## nelly1

The apa want a end to reptile keeping full stop.Not just wild caught,CB,CF and WC.ET said it herself on national TV, she wants a end to reptile keeping.


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## AndrewG

*.*

Yes, I see your point. I think a realistic outcome for them may be to prevent further capture of wild caught animals. I am not sure what they propose to do with the many animals already in captivity.


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## mitsi

AndrewG said:


> Yes, I see your point. I think a realistic outcome for them may be to prevent further capture of wild caught animals. I am not sure what they propose to do with the many animals already in captivity.


Unfortunately i fear if they get their way many of them will be pts. 
The other thing is from what ive read and heard from people, its cats they plan to target next, then what, dogs, fish etc.


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## wilkinss77

AndrewG said:


> Yes, I see your point. I think a realistic outcome for them may be to prevent further capture of wild caught animals. I am not sure what they propose to do with the many animals already in captivity.


that's not their aim, which is to put an end to ALL petkeeping, starting with reptiles & other exotics. they aren't interested in protecting wild caught animals or anything that can be thought of as beneficial to any of us- they are our enemies.



mitsi said:


> Unfortunately i fear if they get their way many of them will be pts.
> The other thing is from what ive read and heard from people, its cats they plan to target next, then what, dogs, fish etc.


spot on! :notworthy:


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## AndrewG

*.*

Cats are vermin, they kill all our native small animals


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## wilkinss77

AndrewG said:


> Cats are vermin, they kill all our native small animals


so you'd like to see fish, dogs & rabbits & all other pets banned too, would you?


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## AndrewG

*.*

Just cats


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## wilkinss77

AndrewG said:


> Just cats


the APA want cats & all other pets set free- they proved that when they raided a fur farm & released thousands of mink into the countryside, which then wrought havoc & did yea damage.


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## mitsi

AndrewG said:


> Cats are vermin, they kill all our native small animals


They also kill the rats and mice so stop disease spresding round the grain that is used for our food, 
people kill far more.


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## sharpstrain

wilkinss77 said:


> the APA want cats & all other pets set free- they proved that when they raided a fur farm & released thousands of mink into the countryside, which then wrought havoc & did yea damage.



Wasn't that the ALF


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## wilkinss77

sharpstrain said:


> Wasn't that the ALF


yes, but they are part of the APA now, i'm told.


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## ian14

wilkinss77 said:


> yes, but they are part of the APA now, i'm told.


If that's the case then the APA are no more than terrorists. The ALF ran campaigns of violence, intimidation and terror and thought nothing of sending letter bombs.


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## wilkinss77

ian14 said:


> If that's the case then the APA are no more than terrorists. The ALF ran campaigns of violence, intimidation and terror and thought nothing of sending letter bombs.


yes, that's true. what i understand to have happened is that all (or most) of the extremist groups were amalgamated into the APA, & then moderated their approach somewhat to attract more supporters- a bit like the BNP have done recently.


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## CloudForest

APA has merged with ALF? is this confirmed information or just rumour?

ALF is on the the terrorism watch list in both the US and the UK, I find it hard to believe that local councils are engaging with groups on that list...if they are, and this info is correct, then someone isnt doing their jobs properly in government/national security


edit: I can find nothing online to support this, links would be appriciated...although it seems to me to be rumour; esp considering that ALF is an international "organisation", APA is a national one...


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## sharpstrain

wilkinss77 said:


> yes, but they are part of the APA now, i'm told.


If this is genuinely the case then it is not only the hobby at risk but people's lives - the ALF have some serioulsy militant and violent members, not to be underestimated or taken lightly. It should also be publicised - I can't imagine any court or genuine organisation supporting anything associated with the ALF


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## CloudForest

sharpstrain said:


> If this is genuinely the case then it is not only the hobby at risk but people's lives - the ALF have some serioulsy militant and violent members, not to be underestimated or taken lightly. It should also be publicised - I can't imagine any court or genuine organisation supporting anything associated with the ALF


first it should be confirmed ot be true, its one thing to disagree with someone on an ethics question, its quite another to accuse them of terrorist activity.


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## Badgerroy

Out of interest what do the APA plan on doing with the 100s of thousands of reptiles and millions of other exotic pets that are in the UK if they get there complete ban that they seem to be after? 

What happened to the pet pit bulls and other "dangerous" dog breeds when they were banned, all were carted of the the vets and put to sleep.
And these Pillocks have the animals best interests at heart do they? :bash:


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## sharpstrain

CloudForest said:


> first it should be confirmed ot be true, its one thing to disagree with someone on an ethics question, its quite another to accuse them of terrorist activity.


I havent accused the apa of anything - the ALF on the other haNd.

Perosnally I am sceptical about a merger.

I am unclear why you feel the need to try to undermine my posts - but that is your perogative I guess


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## CloudForest

so you agree with what I say, and yet still feel the need to launch a little personal attack one me, again.

nothing unclear about that.


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## nelly1

it has been said before that former members of ALF are associated with the APA, also the RSPCA.
Certain names keep cropping up
Never seen a mention of a merger,till now


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## Khonsu

Could the FBH (for example) produce a FACT pack. The likes of the APA are very good at PR, they have to be, its their biggest tool/means of raising funds/existing as a financial entity, a sinlgr picture of an abused or injutred critter taken out of context counts far more than all the words we can throw up against (ask the RSPCA its how they raise thier millions) but at least if we had all the facts & figures to hand in a professionally presented way it would be a good start in answering our critics/thier lies but more importantly influencing Jo Public when the oppurtunity to speak to them arises.

Keep Calm & Keep Resisting


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