# Help needed to create a sticky on best beginner frog species



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm in the process of making a sticky based on everyone's experience on here, as it's a question that gets raised quite often.
This is the list I've got so far:

Aquatic
African Clawed Frog (Xenopus)

Semi-aquatic
Fire-Bellied Toad (Bombina orientalis, perhaps other species in the same genus too)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)
White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
American Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (Hyla versicolor)
Peacock Tree Frog/Big Eyed Tree Frog (Leptopelis Vermiculatus)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (rhacophorus dennysi)
European Green Tree Frog (hyla aborea)

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)
Horned/Pacman Frog (Ceratophrys)
Cane Toad (Bufo marinus)
European Green Toad (Bufo viridis or Pseudepidalea viridis)


If anyone thinks anything should be added/removed then please let me know.
Once the list seems to be complete, I'll start a separate thread that will hopefully be made a stickyyyy!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Are any of these species recommended for beginners?

Asian Horned Frog
Red-Legged Running Frog
Tomato Frog
Spadefoot Toad
Harlequin Toad
Amazon Milk Frog
Budgett's Frog

Also, I'm unsure if there should be a dart frog section. Are any darts recommended for beginners?

Cheers.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Harlequin, Milk and Budgetts I wouldn't have.

Darts, no.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

What Bullshit!!

for Dartfrogs

for instance

Tri-colours
Leucs
Hyloxalus azureiventris
Phyllobates vittatus

Dont Cut corners! and Research, which you should do for ANY PET!!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

You would advise them to someone who had never kept frogs before? Even though the link you have given recommends installing a misting system, breeding fruit flies and providing high humidity with a dry winter period?


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## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

i think that if this is aimed at people who are looking for there first frog, then a long list of names will mean nothing.. yes i agree that they should then do there own research but if this is supposed to be a first reverence sort of thing then i think it could be much more usefull.. 

personaly i think every recommended species should have: 

a picture 
basic behavioural and habitat info 
a link to a recommended care sheet (be it one on here or on a different site)
any specialist experience, equipment or knowledge needed


afterall as a suitable "beginer" species it also needs to be a species that is easierly researchable and has plently available infomation to go with the species..

for example when researching vietnamese blue's there is very little infomation around that is actualy aimed at that specific species.. which as a beginer would make it very difficult to care for this frog..

so for those reason i think if your going to recommend frogs as good beginner frogs you also need to point in the right research directions (not suggesting we do all the research for them).. as no frog is a good beginer frog if they dont know how to look after it!


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

yes, it the same, apart from grow your own food!!

My first frog was a Azzies!!

:censor: FBT and RETF

READ & LEARN 

Anyway.... [misting systems, uses some common sense mate]

THINK NAz has nailed my point


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

llamafish said:


> yes, it the same, apart from grow your own food!!
> 
> My first frog was a Azzies!!
> 
> ...


I'm convinced.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

naz_pixie said:


> i think that if this is aimed at people who are looking for there first frog, then a long list of names will mean nothing.. yes i agree that they should then do there own research but if this is supposed to be a first reverence sort of thing then i think it could be much more usefull..
> 
> personaly i think every recommended species should have:
> 
> ...


I'm sure all the info can be added, but a quick reference is definitely needed on here so people can go and research on their own. There's constantly threads asking for good starter species and it's easier just to refer them to a sticky and say go and research some of those.


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## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

llamafish said:


> yes, it the same, apart from grow your own food!!
> 
> My first frog was a Azzies!!
> 
> ...


sort of.. i belive a beginer could sucsessfully look after most species if they do the utmost of research and are prepared to pour as much time and effort as possible into there new pet... 

but i also agree with morgan freeman, in as much as however much the above is true it *doesnt actualy make the species an "ideal" first frog..

*i think at the end of teh day it comes down to being less about the frog a more about the level of commitment the owner puts in..


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

darts are to fine keep, you just thinking to hard i see!!


NEEDS

most you spray twice a day

12hrs of lights

24 degrees

feed on flies and add vit!



of course you can make it more complex as you gain experience and read

but saying DARTS FOR EXPERINCE KEEPERS ONLY is a nonsense, 

NAZ is right pic, caresheet and specialist forums are required for any pet.

From meeting many very good breeders of darffrogs, very few have bother with your suggestion of Begineer frogs


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

naz_pixie said:


> look after most species if they do the utmost of research and are prepared to pour as much time and effort as possible into there new pet...


Of course they could, obviously that isn't what this thread would be for. People keep asking for good starter species...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

llamafish said:


> but saying DARTS FOR EXPERINCE KEEPERS ONLY is a nonsense,


I didn't.


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## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm sure all the info can be added, but a quick reference is definitely needed on here so people can go and research on their own. There's constantly threads asking for good starter species and it's easier just to refer them to a sticky and say go and research some of those.


i totaly agree.. i just think if were going to make it a sticky it could be made even more usefull..


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Harlequin, Milk and Budgetts I wouldn't have.
> 
> Darts, no.



you suggested that here!! ???

anyway, leave you too it


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

naz_pixie said:


> i totaly agree.. i just think if were going to make it a sticky it could be made even more usefull..


 
Yeah....We'll get flanman to do it though!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

llamafish said:


> you suggested that here!! ???
> 
> anyway, leave you too it


Not a good starter frog doesn't suggest that only experienced keepers can have them.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

american toads are easy...


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## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah....We'll get flanman to do it though!


i dont know of this mystical "flanman" :blush:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

naz_pixie said:


> i dont know of this mystical "flanman" :blush:


Ipreferflan. OP man.


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## Pipkin28 (Oct 6, 2007)

Whatever is put in the sticky, I think an absolute MUST would be a statement of 'Research, Research, Research BEFORE purchasing anything'. That means Books, Internet and Forums etc. but also to be aware that all these tools will only constitute that particular individuals point of view because we all know on here how much each person's experience and advice can differ.

One of the books I bought when I was doing my research advised finding a local herp vet too so you have that in place before you actually need one in a hurry. The first thing I did was ring my vet and ask if they could/would deal with amphibs... lucky for me they have a vet who has reptile experience.


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

I'm thinking of getting frogs in the future so something like this would be really helpful to people like me.
Even if its just a list of species that I could then go on to research myself it would be brilliant. 
Although if there's links to good sites too I wouldn't say no :lol2:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Hey guys.
I think some of you are missing the point.

The sticky doesn't necessarily just have to be a list. I made this thread for people to decide what goes in it. It can have links to info. I think pictures might clog it up a bit though....
Truth is, I don't have enough experience on my own to create the list so I need you all to help me. Suggestions are great and all voices will be heard!
I will definitely be adding that research is needed.

'no frog is a good beginer frog if they dont know how to look after it!'

I think we all agree with this, but having a list doesn't suggest that research is made obsolete.

It will also hopefully stop people buying delicate species, RETFs for example, as beginner frogs and then stressing them out too much or even accidentally killing them.


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

I think this would be a excellent sticky!! Yes we all can say that ppl should be doing prior research on the phibs they would like to keep as with all animals....but how many of us whether it be phibs or fish or other pets have we bought on impulse or just relying on the words of our local pet shop...only to get the pets home and say...arrrrrggggggg what do I do now....or Arrrggggg the pet shop lied........better get on the net and see if I can find more info!

So a sticky on the most common species bought in UK - regardless of how ppl here would classify the difficulty would help immensely would prolly save many phibs lives and help de-stress the new owners.

Many may feel that this maybe like doing other ppls homework.....but how many of us have searched the net for caresheets of the phibs that we already have and found them really useful and then feel grateful towards the author and then do slight changes to our phibs care to make its life slightly better?

Just my thoughts on flannys idea


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Bearnandos said:


> I think this would be a excellent sticky!! Yes we all can say that ppl should be doing prior research on the phibs they would like to keep as with all animals....but how many of us whether it be phibs or fish or other pets have we bought on impulse or just relying on the words of our local pet shop...only to get the pets home and say...arrrrrggggggg what do I do now....or Arrrggggg the pet shop lied........better get on the net and see if I can find more info!
> 
> So a sticky on the most common species bought in UK - regardless of how ppl here would classify the difficulty would help immensely would prolly save many phibs lives and help de-stress the new owners.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bearnandos! That's a good idea.
I do think it would be great for the most common species available in the UK. Species that aren't so easy to get hold of should probably be left out, although I will make it known that the list is only the readily available species and that they are not the ONLY species recommended for beginners.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

when i got my fbt's the rep. shop said make a incline using gravel then add water. when i acctually researched an read about impaction the gravel was straight out of there. ive now had my 2 since summer 2006!. 
I think its a great idea to have this as a sticky, with referals to good caresheets. 
Amphibian Care
this site helped me when i started.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

The only flaw in listing all readily available species is that some people may think they can just go out and buy them as the information is available here. I think I'm still backing a list of easiest species to care for.
If they do go out and buy a difficult species we're always here to help them out.
But it would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Can no one think of more easy species?


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

WELL.

This hasn't been so popular.
Come on guys or is this the go ahead to create the thread?

EY EY EY


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

As I said earlier I would like a sticky thread on good beginner frogs. But as i'm a complete newbie to this I have no suggestions for you. Sorry.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

why dont you make a list of "beginneering frog" for each class

EG 

*Dartfrogs*

leucs - with photo and caresheet
tri colours - with photo and caresheet

the a link to specialist forum/website

*Tree frogs
*
milks - with photo and caresheet
RETF - with photo and caresheet

then link to specialist forum/website

so on


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah that's a good idea....Ipreferflan's list can always be added to aswell.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> why dont you make a list of "beginneering frog" for each class
> 
> EG
> 
> ...


That was the plan. With aquatic and semi-aquatic etc. But RETFs aren't good beginner frogs... or were you just using that as an example?


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

that was just a Example, as i know :censor: all about other types of frogs due to a lack of interest!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

You could also add a subheading of beginner- low maintenance/ moderate maintenance/high maintenance.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

llamafish said:


> that was just a Example, as i know :censor: all about other types of frogs due to a lack of interest!


You can do us a dart one then


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> that was just a Example, as i know :censor: all about other types of frogs due to a lack of interest!


lol okay.

Also, could I bother people for pictures?
I'd like each frogs name to link to a picture and I want to avoid 'blah blah blah' copyright.
I'll put a thanks to *your names* at the bottom


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Take whatever you want from me....


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Right. This is what I have got so far.
I'm sure it's not perfect yet, and constructive criticism would be appreciated!

Aquatic

_Aquatic species of frog can be kept in fish-tanks. Some species require filters, whereas others may do just as well with regular water changes._ 

Recommended beginner species:
African Clawed Frog (Xenopus)

Semi-aquatic

_Semi-aquatic species may require a 50/50 land/water set-up, a largely aquatic set-up or a set-up with a prominent land area. This is achievable with glass terrariums or fish-tanks. Water may need to be heated and filtered depending on species._

Recommended beginner species:
Fire-Bellied Toad (Bombina orientalis, perhaps other species in the same genus too)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)

_Tree Frogs usually require a tall habitat. The Exo-Terra glass terrariums (and similar products by other companies) are perfect for many species. On the whole they tend to be poor swimmers and should be provided with a water dish as opposed to a deep water area. _

Recommended beginner species:
White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
American Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (Hyla versicolor)
Peacock Tree Frog/Big Eyed Tree Frog (Leptopelis Vermiculatus)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (rhacophorus dennysi)
European Green Tree Frog (hyla aborea)

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)

_Ground dwelling frogs tend to require long (as opposed to tall) habitats, and a water dish. Many species, such as Pacmans, are generally inactive and don’t require all too much room despite their large size. Fish-tanks can be used, as can glass terrariums, with the latter usually having more ventilation. _

Recommended beginner species:
Horned/Pacman Frog (Ceratophrys)
Cane Toad (Bufo marinus)
European Green Toad (Bufo viridis or Pseudepidalea viridis)


*Although this list provides a small amount of information on how to care for the different types of frog available, it is strongly recommended that you thoroughly research the particular species you are interested in and make sure you have got your habitat set-up before you purchase any frog.*


Thoughts? I'll redo the list with each species name linking to an image, soon!

EDIT: I didn't include a dart frog category yet as I would like to hear more voices endorsing them as suitable for beginners. I certainly haven't ruled out the possibility yet.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

*Epipedobates tricolor*










*








Highland morph
Terrarium
*Well structured and planted rainforest terrarium from 
40 x 40 x 40 cm for a male and two females. For groups of better than 80 x 40 x 40 cm, terrium to be stored ie airplants or branches

Also a pool maybe be required for tadpoles to be dropped off!!!

*Temperatures:* 
daytime temperatures at 20 to max. 25 °C​
A night-time reduction of about 5-10 ° C is recommended and corresponds to the natural occurrences. 

*Humidity:* 
As the kind of lives along streams in cooler coal forests, the average humidity should be around the 80-90%. 

​ Short-term reduction to 70% (at noon) is, however, was well tolerated.
At night, the humidity should reach close to 100%. This is achieved most easily by an increase in misting before the expiry of the lighting and a night-time reduction of Temperature. 

*Diet:* 
Current small and medium-sized food animals such as springtails, small fruit flies, fruit flies Large micro crickets or Crickets up to 5 mm in size (jumping legs removed) and meadow plankton. Adults certainly overwhelm even large food pieces and are just not enough to eat with fruit flies. Without "solid" food such as wax worms or crickets breeding is not usually possible because the females will often sell inferior or no eggs or developmental problems occur when the larvae. For Adults feeding insects such as crickets and fruit flies regularly 1-2 times a week should be dusted with a good vitamin supplement.​ Food animals to young animals should be dusted daily, the first 4 weeks. Opened vitamins in a refrigerator. Fruit flies can be before feeding provisioning well with liquid vitamin supplements (eg Sanostol, Multibionta) and nutritional value to it. Even young crickets can be obtained by supplementation of green fodder (grass herbs) enriched with nutrients and vitamins well.​ Powdered food animals should be offered in a terrarium on removable trays. Vitamin powder residue left behind can make it bacterial focus on the terrarium floor. In small bowls in the terrarium designed pieces of fruit (eg banana slices are good Lockstellen in fruit flies, and are accepted by the frogs soon as feeding sites. For an adequate vitamin supply of food animals by this Lockstellen the retention of food animals should not be too low, but that should be added vitamin-enriched. Offered feed pans for health reasons should be cleaned every 2-3 days. Springtails are easy to focus on Fernroot pieces designed by these small! Amounts of dry yeast sprinkled. Again, the frogs soon learn the importance of the feeding place




Will need to be proofed read, as my dyslexia dont help me!!
but i believe that a nicer detailed caresheet that extra links could be added to (making a dartfrog viv? making FF cultures! KJ FF feeding station :whistling2


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

ps i stole that from a german website! but think the format good!


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

*simply format?*

_Phyllobates vittatus_ 










*
Terrarium 
*From rainforest terrarium 50x50x50, 
eg bromeliads 
Water part with stream 

*Temperatures:* 
24-28 ° C, night-time reduction by 5 ° C 
Minimum annual temperature fluctuation (1-2 ° C) 

*Humidity:* 
85-95%, at lunch time to 80% 

*Diet:* 
Current small and medium-sized food animals 
Drosophila, micro-crickets (somewhat larger), springtails, meadow plankton 

*Groups size*​ 1.1 or 1.2, very territorial 

*Tips for breeding:* 
Lays 10-25 eggs, up to 2 times a week 
The male guards the eggs 
Maturation of the eggs about 18 days


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I like both- Flanman's summary would make a good sticky, and Bananallama should seriously consider writing for the care sheet section.:2thumb:


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

might be worth writing a sticky idex of frogs linking to said caresheet of species 

Also try to impress lesser known species in the hobbies to improve breeding of species in private owner


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> I like both- Flanman's summary would make a good sticky, and Bananallama should seriously consider writing for the care sheet section.:2thumb:


Thanks man 
I'm sure there are more species to include!
What about yellow-bellied toads? tomato frogs?
There MUST be more semi-aquatic and aquatic species suitable for a beginner!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> might be worth writing a sticky idex of frogs linking to said caresheet of species
> 
> Also try to impress lesser known species in the hobbies to improve breeding of species in private owner


with the caresheets there is always google and you'd have to link to more than one caresheet per species as there is a lot of variety in methods and opinions.

lesser known species is all very well and I know what you mean, but I think listing readily available species (with lots of information on care available) is more what the people reading the list will want!


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

why dont you find some off dartfrog, pollywog? might be a good starting poitn


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> why dont you find some off dartfrog, pollywog? might be a good starting poitn


caresheets?


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

species, there normally kick up different speices that you might not thought of!

and caresheet aint always easy to find, unless ppl direct you to a website, even then you have to use google translate to get the info you require

I think your format as a sticky, with a small photo. Then linked to a caresheet

Then ppl can shout at noobies etc that dont look at it lol

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> species, there normally kick up different speices that you might not thought of!
> 
> and caresheet aint always easy to find, unless ppl direct you to a website, even then you have to use google translate to get the info you require
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've looked. Trouble is I don't know whether they'd be recommended for beginners or not.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Aquatic

_Aquatic species of frog can be kept in fish-tanks. Some species require filters, whereas others may do just as well with regular water changes._ 

Recommended beginner species:
African Clawed Frog (Xenopus)

Semi-aquatic

_Semi-aquatic species may require a 50/50 land/water set-up, a largely aquatic set-up or a set-up with a prominent land area. This is achievable with glass terrariums or fish-tanks. Water may need to be heated and filtered depending on species._

Recommended beginner species:
Fire-Bellied Toad (Bombina orientalis, perhaps other species in the same genus too)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)

_Tree Frogs usually require a tall habitat. The Exo-Terra glass terrariums (and similar products by other companies) are perfect for many species. On the whole they tend to be poor swimmers and should be provided with a water dish as opposed to a deep water area. _

Recommended beginner species:
White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
American Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (Hyla versicolor)
Peacock Tree Frog/Big Eyed Tree Frog (Leptopelis Vermiculatus)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (rhacophorus dennysi)
European Green Tree Frog (hyla aborea)
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibian-care-sheets/440946-amazon-milk-frog-care-sheet.html

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)

_Ground dwelling frogs tend to require long (as opposed to tall) habitats, and a water dish. Many species, such as Pacmans, are generally inactive and don’t require all too much room despite their large size. Fish-tanks can be used, as can glass terrariums, with the latter usually having more ventilation. _

Recommended beginner species:
Horned/Pacman Frog (Ceratophrys)
Cane Toad (Bufo marinus)
European Green Toad (Bufo viridis or Pseudepidalea viridis)

Dart frogs _(pdf shorthand)_

Dart frogs as a "type" of frog cover a number of different species and Morph. Each type of dartfrog live in different environment, therefore little time may be required to research the type of Dartfrog 
*
For care sheet click the suitable link

dartfrog- Epipedobates tricolor*

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibian-care-sheets/470113-dartfrog-epipedobates-tricolor.html

*dartfrog - Phyllobrate Vittatus


*http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibian-care-sheets/470112-dartfrog-phyllobrate-vittatus.html


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

think to an extent you need someone who into that type of frogs to inform you


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> think to an extent you need someone who into that type of frogs to inform you


Yeah probably.
I'm really not sure about the caresheet links though. I mean, it will say at the bottom to research. I give them a name, their latin name AND a picture (eventually) so they should have enough info for googling.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

ok your show


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> ok your show


How's about some links to websites with great caresheets on a variety of species, at the bottom?


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

yeah but FrogNick made a good thread already 

i would point or tell ppl them! i found it hard to get that many caresheet by googling


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> yeah but FrogNick made a good thread already
> 
> i would point or tell ppl them! i found it hard to get that many caresheet by googling


Yeah, but it's all dart frog info.
I'm suggesting a list of good sites for care info underneath the list of decent beginner species.
To help them research.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Google Translate <----- list of care sheet for many species of PDF

best site around in my opinion

www.DendroBase.de just put it though google translate


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## salad dodger (Feb 13, 2007)

i would say cuban tree frogs & white lipped tree frogs are deffinite beginner sp .
reed frogs are also pretty easy .
milks were mentioned but many come in to the country as with retf full of parasites & stressed out & dont survive long 
thats just my opinion though


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

salad dodger said:


> i would say cuban tree frogs & white lipped tree frogs are deffinite beginner sp .
> reed frogs are also pretty easy .
> milks were mentioned but many come in to the country as with retf full of parasites & stressed out & dont survive long
> thats just my opinion though


Yeah, I think the general consensus is not to include milks.

Do you have any of those species you mentioned? I'll put them on the list but I just need some pictures of them that are free of copyright


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Here's the latest one!

Best beginner frog species

This is a list of the most readily available frogs that are suitable for a beginner. Click on names for pictures.

Aquatic

_Aquatic species of frog can be kept in fish-tanks. Some species require filters, whereas others may do just as well with regular water changes. _

Recommended beginner species:
African Clawed Frog (Xenopus species)

Semi-aquatic

_Semi-aquatic species may require a 50/50 land/water set-up, a largely aquatic set-up or a set-up with a prominent land area. This is achievable with glass terrariums or fish-tanks. Water may need to be heated and filtered depending on species._

Recommended beginner species:
Fire-Bellied Toad (Bombina species)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)

_Tree Frogs usually require a tall habitat. The Exo-Terra glass terrariums (and similar products by other companies) are perfect for many species. On the whole they tend to be poor swimmers and should be provided with a water dish as opposed to a deep water area._ 

Recommended beginner species:
White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
American Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (Hyla versicolor)
Peacock/Big-Eyed Tree Frog (Leptopelis Vermiculatus)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (rhacophorus dennysi)
European Green Tree Frog (hyla aborea)
White-Lipped Tree Frog (Litoria infrafrenata)
Cuban Tree Frog (Osteopilus septentrionalis)
African Reed Frog (Afrixalus, Heterixalus, and Hyperolius species)

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)

_Ground dwelling frogs require long (as opposed to tall) habitats, and a water dish. Many species, such as Pacmans, are generally inactive and don’t require all too much room despite their large size. Fish-tanks can be used as can glass terrariums, with the latter usually having more ventilation. _

Recommended beginner species:
Horned/Pacman Frog (Ceratophrys species)
Cane Toad (Bufo marinus)
European Green Toad (Bufo viridis or Pseudepidalea viridis)


*Although this list provides a small amount of information on how to care for the different types of frog available, it is strongly recommended that you thoroughly research the particular species you are interested in and make sure you have got your habitat set-up before you purchase any frog.*


With thanks to Morgan Freeman, TIMOTHY AND MATILDA, and Spikebrit, who all contributed pictures.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

:2wallbang:

:banghead::banghead:

what the point? 

It the same as saying, 

"these are frogs we decided you should have!" 
"BUT we not here to help, know :censor: off and google it!" 
"PS everyone must think PDF are hard to keep & dont even think about axotlas or salamders or the world will end"

What you trying to acheive?? I cant see anything helpful in that! It an Amphilian section BTW not a sodding tree/FBT/Pacman frog section!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

llamafish said:


> :2wallbang:
> 
> :banghead::banghead:
> 
> ...


Someone needs to calm down...
It provides a list of frogs with pictures so that people can decide which one is for them.
I'm not including dart frogs until someone other than YOU says they are suitable for beginners. I think their requirements of high humidity, fruit-fly proof habitat and planted vivariums are a little too much for a beginner, and I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion. But I am not ruling it out completely.

Now then, as for salamanders and other amphibians...

I. Know. Nothing. About. Them.

This is a list of frogs, not salamanders, and it SAYS that in the title. There is nowhere where it says do not keep salamanders.

I think it'll be helpful AND I WILL ADD LINKS TO GOOD SITES WITH CARESHEETS AT THE BOTTOM.

Now chill out.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

grey treefrog...:no1:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

HABU said:


> image
> 
> 
> grey treefrog...:no1:


Thank you! That's a great picture


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

YouTube - Gray Tree Frog care#


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## salad dodger (Feb 13, 2007)

ipreferaflan said:


> Yeah, I think the general consensus is not to include milks.
> 
> Do you have any of those species you mentioned? I'll put them on the list but I just need some pictures of them that are free of copyright


 yeah i keep all of the mentioned sp .
are you just after general pics ? or full on publishable macro jobs ?
just let me know & i can dig some stuff out : victory:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

salad dodger said:


> yeah i keep all of the mentioned sp .
> are you just after general pics ? or full on publishable macro jobs ?
> just let me know & i can dig some stuff out : victory:


Just general pics please.
Similar in size and quality to the above grey tree frog 
As long as it's not a HUGE picture or a tiny one, and it's in focus on the frog then it's all good.
Cheers :thumb:

EDIT: I don't need reeds or white-lipped! Someone's already contributed them! Cuban Tree frog would be great though! Cheers


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## salad dodger (Feb 13, 2007)

llamafish said:


> :2wallbang:
> 
> :banghead::banghead:
> 
> ...


you really do need to take a chill pill .

anyone can keep anything they like .
theres nothing saying that you cant have a gaboon viper as your first snake ,
or a nile monitor as your first lizard ,
or a pink toe as your first t 
or marine as your first fish .

so therefore a pdf as your first frog .

but if you look in the other sections of the forum at best "firsts" then i doubt you will see any of the above in lists .
but someone will always come on & say "i started with a xxxxxxxx & never had a problem"

what is being said is maybe its an idea to start with something a little easier & more forgiving until you get the finer points nailed .
no doubt there are lots of keepers out there that started with pdf's ,
but im sure more people would like to refine the art of amphib keeping a little before trying something with such specific needs .

as mentioned , breeding your own food is pretty much a given with pdf's
whereas nipping down the petshop & buying a tub of crix is far easier .

setting up a misting system is a little more involved than spraying a tank with a plant sprayer .

a few plastic plants is easier than setting up a living rainforest in a tank

but with research & a little know how any animal can be a "first"

at the end of the day everyone has their own choice ,
what the op is trying to do is get a list of the more common "firsts" just to help people on their way into what is the wonderful world of amphibians


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

It's simple really.

Either someone can deal with all the "what's the best first frog?" posts over and over again, which will just be a list anyway, or they can be referred to this new thread.


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

This forum seems to chase it tail on the same five species of frogs, and it make for a dull read.

i was trying to open ppl ideas a little a suggest that most other species of frogs aint hard! 

People suggest you need a misting system for pdf.... rubbish, i own 5 species and have one spray bottle

you can use plastic plants, but live is cheaper and the frogs live it more
(cheaper, as i got two original plants, that are now in all my vivs and swapped with other keepers to get more types)

Food -mirco crickets or most petshop can buy u FF in need be, and you only feed once a week a PDF

Humdity - above 70% ideally (surly tree frogs need that)

light period 12hr

temperature - room 14-24 degrees C (higer better of course)


anyway, sorry for trying to break some misconcreptions


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> It's simple really.
> 
> Either someone can deal with all the "what's the best first frog?" posts over and over again, which will just be a list anyway, or they can be referred to this new thread.



which i think 100% correct why to do it, as an idex page!


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

I don't have any experience with frogs but while I was researching them I read that Cuban Tree Frogs were good beginner frogs. Don't know if thats true or not.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Thats a really useful list IPF and would have been good to have when i was first looking at frogs.

Maybe if llamafish is so intent in everyone keeping dartfrogs he could do a list thread on how to keep certain species of dartfrog, what they require, how to keep cultures ETC.... would be good to see.

But I for one would not want to keep darts as my first frog and feel they should be built up to and this list will help nicely. :notworthy:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Thats a really useful list IPF and would have been good to have when i was first looking at frogs.
> 
> Maybe if llamafish is so intent in everyone keeping dartfrogs he could do a list thread on how to keep certain species of dartfrog, what they require, how to keep cultures ETC.... would be good to see.
> 
> But I for one would not want to keep darts as my first frog and feel they should be built up to and this list will help nicely. :notworthy:


Good plan!
Thank you. I've nearly finished it. Just need more pics!


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Would try and help with that but only own whites and horned frog both of what you have pics of


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## muddy waders (Feb 27, 2010)

*From a beginner's point of view*

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I joined because I want to do my homework before I start keeping frogs. I've got my heart set on White's tree frogs, so I'm very pleased to see them on Ipreferaflan’s list of best beginner frogs.

This list is clearly intended for the likes of me (a beginner), so I shall offer my opinion of it, from my beginner’s point of view.

I like the way it begins with the categories that frogs belong to, as in aquatic, semi-aquatic, arboreal and terrestrial, because this makes us consider, at the outset, what sort of habitat we’ll be prepared to maintain for our frogs. I, for example, am not a great lover of water changes, so I’d be looking for frogs that’d be happy with a bowl of clean water. So the list enables me to narrow it down to a choice between arboreal and terrestrial species. Which of these will I choose? Well, I like to marvel at the wonders of frogs’ feet; how they utilize them for climbing etc, I like to see their legs in action when they climb things and I’m a lover of lush vegetation. So, it looks like arboreal or frogs are the ones for me. Therefore I’m pleased to see that I’m on the right track, as White's belong to this category. 

I also like the way that the list concludes by emphasising the importance of preparation and the strongly recommending that we do our research thoroughly. It’s sound advice and clearly written. 

*Although this list provides a small amount of information on how to care for the different types of frog available, it is strongly recommended that you thoroughly research the particular species you are interested in and make sure you have got your habitat set-up before you purchase any frog.* 

If us beginners follow it I think we'll save our frogs, and ourselves, from unnecessary stress in the future. 

I want to do as salad dodger suggests and,

“start with something a little easier & more forgiving until you get the finer points nailed .no doubt there are lots of keepers out there that started with pdf's ,
but im sure more people would like to refine the art of amphib keeping a little before trying something with such specific needs” .

I think the list will also save you guys from having to,

“deal with all the "what's the best first frog?" posts over and over again, “.

as pointed out by Morgan Freeman.

Also, when you join a forum of experts as a beginner, despite forum members inviting questions and being generous with offers of advice, you can still feel a bit shy/a nuisance about asking beginners’ questions, thinking to yourself, ‘OMG, they must be sick of answering this’.

Because of this reticence when it comes to asking questions I might decide to go and look for advice first, and the list will save me from having to trawl through miles of forum posts and loads of googling, looking for beginners’ advice when I should really be washing the dishes. Everything will be in one place.

So to sum up I think it’s a well-structured list that gives plenty of food for thought. Thank you for making it Ipreferaflan. If you do have time to add a list of links to care sheets on good sites, it will be appreciated.

Habu, that photo of the grey tree frog on the mushroom is genius.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

muddy waders said:


> Hello, I'm new to the forum. I joined because I want to do my homework before I start keeping frogs. I've got my heart set on White's tree frogs, so I'm very pleased to see them on Ipreferaflan’s list of best beginner frogs.
> 
> This list is clearly intended for the likes of me (a beginner), so I shall offer my opinion of it, from my beginner’s point of view.
> 
> ...


Thank you muddy waders!
You've completely understood the point of the list and for that I'm glad!
I just need some more pictures and then I'll be able to put up the full version of the list (which will include links to websites with caresheets)
White's are great. I started with them. If there are any questions on their husbandry, don't hesitate to ask!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

*Best beginner frog species*

This is a list of the most readily available frogs that are suitable for a beginner:

Aquatic

_Aquatic species of frog can be kept in fish-tanks. Some species require filters, whereas others may do just as well with regular water changes. _

Recommended beginner species:
African Clawed Frog (Xenopus species)

Semi-aquatic

_Semi-aquatic species may require a 50/50 land/water set-up, a largely aquatic set-up or a set-up with a prominent land area. This is achievable with glass terrariums or fish-tanks. Water may need to be heated and filtered depending on species._

Recommended beginner species:
Fire-Bellied Toad (Bombina species)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)

_Tree Frogs usually require a tall habitat. The Exo-Terra glass terrariums (and similar products by other companies) are perfect for many species. On the whole they tend to be poor swimmers and should be provided with a water dish as opposed to a deep water area. _

Recommended beginner species:
White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
American Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (Hyla versicolor)
Peacock/Big-eyed Tree Frog (Leptopelis vermiculatus)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (Rhacophorus dennysi)
European Green Tree Frog (Hyla arborea)
White-Lipped Tree Frog (Litoria infrafrenata)
Cuban Tree Frog (Osteopilus septentrionalis)
African Reed Frog (Afrixalus, Heterixalus, and Hyperolius species)
Japanese Tree Frog (Hyla japonica)

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)

_Ground dwelling frogs require long (as opposed to tall) habitats, and a water dish. Many species, such as Pacmans, are generally inactive and don’t require all too much room despite their large size. Fish-tanks can be used as can glass terrariums, with the latter usually having more ventilation._ 

Recommended beginner species:
Horned/Pacman Frog (Ceratophrys)
Cane Toad (Bufo marinus)
European Green Toad (Bufo viridis or Pseudepidalea viridis)


*Although this list provides a small amount of information on how to care for the different types of frog available, it is strongly recommended that you thoroughly research the particular species you are interested in and make sure you have got your habitat set-up before you purchase any frog.*

Some good sites for care info:
RFUK Amphibian care sheet section
amphibiancare.com
allaboutfrogs.org
Or even Google or Youtube the species you are interested in.


With thanks to Morgan Freeman, TIMOTHY AND MATILDA, mrblue2008, Spikebrit, dad’n’bab, richie.b, rigsby and titwillow, who all contributed pictures.


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

That looks really good the only thing is the amphibian care link at the bottom has expired.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Well there it is so far. Nearly done. All I need is some recommendations for more sites with good care sheets and a few more pictures!
Also, I've linked richie.b's name to frogsgalore. If anyone else who is on that list wants me to link their name to somewhere then let me know and I'll doooo it.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Rhi01 said:


> That looks really good the only thing is the amphibian care link at the bottom has expired.


Sorted it. Alright now?


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

Yeah its working now.
I'm not going to spend a few hours reading on Whites :2thumb:


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## muddy waders (Feb 27, 2010)

Thank you IPF


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I need websites with good caresheets! Come on guys. Show some enthusiasm!


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

ipreferaflan said:


> Well there it is so far. Nearly done. All I need is some recommendations for more sites with good care sheets and a few more pictures!
> Also, I've linked richie.b's name to frogsgalore. If anyone else who is on that list wants me to link their name to somewhere then let me know and I'll doooo it.


Thanks flanman but not much point linking to frogsgalore the site will be closing in the next few weeks once all the stock has gone
Richie


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

richie.b said:


> Thanks flanman but not much point linking to frogsgalore the site will be closing in the next few weeks once all the stock has gone
> Richie


Completely?!


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

ipreferaflan said:


> Completely?!


Yes mate completely no more frogsgalore


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

richie.b said:


> Yes mate completely no more frogsgalore


Oh man, I knew you were selling stuff, but I didn't know you were shutting down.
Have you got any mossy frogs left? I want another one to go with the one I've got at the moment, but I haven't got any money at the moment!


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

Oh no I was going to get my frogs off you in a couple of months!!


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Frogsgalore was only really an extension of my hobby not my main business, and as ive just landed a big contract with my business i wont really have time for frogsgalore so decided to sell up and close it down.
Flanman ive got 2 mossys left but really want to sell these as a pair


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

richie.b said:


> Frogsgalore was only really an extension of my hobby not my main business, and as ive just landed a big contract with my business i wont really have time for frogsgalore so decided to sell up and close it down.
> Flanman ive got 2 mossys left but really want to sell these as a pair


Ah, that's alright then. Glad to hear you've landed a big contract!
I think I could grab a pair. It just depends when I next get money. I'll see if you've still got them when I get paid then I'll grab 'em.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

*All images got!*

This is a list of the most readily available frogs that are suitable for a beginner (click on the name of the frog to view a picture):

Aquatic

_Aquatic species of frog can be kept in fish-tanks. Some species require filters, whereas others may do just as well with regular water changes. _

Recommended beginner species:
African Clawed Frog (_Xenopus_ species)

Semi-aquatic

_Semi-aquatic species may require a 50/50 land/water set-up, a largely aquatic set-up or a set-up with a prominent land area. This is achievable with glass terrariums or fish-tanks. Water may need to be heated and filtered depending on species._

Recommended beginner species:
Fire-Bellied Toad (_Bombina_ species)

Arboreal (Tree Frogs)

_Tree Frogs usually require a tall habitat. The Exo-Terra glass terrariums (and similar products by other companies) are perfect for many species. On the whole they tend to be poor swimmers and should be provided with a water dish as opposed to a deep water area. _

Recommended beginner species:
White's Tree Frog (_Litoria caerulea_)
American Green Tree Frog (_Hyla cinerea_)
American Grey/Gray Tree Frog (_Hyla versicolor_)
Peacock/Big-eyed Tree Frog (_Leptopelis vermiculatus_)
Vietnamese Blue Tree Frog (_Rhacophorus dennysi_)
European Green Tree Frog (_Hyla arborea_)
White-Lipped Tree Frog (_Litoria infrafrenata_)
Cuban Tree Frog (_Osteopilus septentrionalis_)
African Reed Frog (_Afrixalus_, _Heterixalus_, and _Hyperolius_ species)
Japanese Tree Frog (_Hyla japonica_)

Terrestrial (Ground Frogs)

_Ground dwelling frogs require long (as opposed to tall) habitats, and a water dish. Many species, such as Pacmans, are generally inactive and don’t require all too much room despite their large size. Fish-tanks can be used as can glass terrariums, with the latter usually having more ventilation._ 

Recommended beginner species:
Horned/Pacman Frog (_Ceratophrys_ species)
Cane Toad (_Bufo marinus_)
European Green Toad _(Bufo viridis_ or _Pseudepidalea viridis_)


*Although this list provides a small amount of information on how to care for the different types of frog available, it is strongly recommended that you thoroughly research the particular species you are interested in and make sure you have got your habitat set-up before you purchase any frog.*

Some good sites for care info:
RFUK Amphibian care sheet section
amphibiancare.com
allaboutfrogs.org
Or even Google or Youtube the species you are interested in.


Photos courtesy of Morgan Freeman, TIMOTHY AND MATILDA, mrblue2008, Spikebrit, jennlovesfrogs, HABU, dad’n’bab, richie.b, rigsby, titwillow, salad dodger, *o* and manda88.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Cuban links to cane toad pic.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I think I just need a few more care sheet links and then I'm done!
Or do you think I should write a little something about dartfrogs?


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Cuban links to cane toad pic.


Fixed!


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## Rhi01 (Oct 23, 2009)

I posted this earlier but the forum must have eat it.
This site might be a good place to direct people? It has quite informative care sheets better than any others I've come across although your all probably going to tell me its wrong now or something.
The Living Rainforest - Welcome To The Living Rainforest


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Rhi01 said:


> I posted this earlier but the forum must have eat it.
> This site might be a good place to direct people? It has quite informative care sheets better than any others I've come across although your all probably going to tell me its wrong now or something.
> The Living Rainforest - Welcome To The Living Rainforest


Looks good to me!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Do we think this is ready then, chaps?
Anything else anyone think I should add?

If not, I'll post it and PM the lovely saedcantas to see if it's sticky material


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

ipreferaflan said:


> I need websites with good caresheets! Come on guys. Show some enthusiasm!


nobody cares, we all have jobs to worry about


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

andaroo said:


> nobody cares, we all have jobs to worry about


Alright mardarse. What's ruffled your feathers?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

ipreferaflan said:


> Alright mardarse. What's ruffled your feathers?


im only playin witchoo:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

andaroo said:


> im only playin witchoo:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Just you wait til I'm earnin' the big bucks.


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