# South West Exotics Expo



## SWest Exotics

We are happy to announce that the first *South West Exotics Expo* will be taking place on the *Sunday 19th of September, 2010.*

The chosen venue is Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre - South Gloucestershire Leisure Centres Bradley Stoke

_Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre,
Fiddlers Wood Lane, 
Bradley Stoke
South Gloucestershire,
BS32 9BS_

Opening times: 10am-3pm
Entrance fee: £2 per adult/ £1 per child/ Under 5's free

Ample free parking both at the venue, and right across from it at Willow Brook Centre/Tesco. Ten/twenty minutes from Bristol Parkway Station. Cafe also available. 

Looking for people to make bookings for tables. Maximum number of tables in the hall is currently being calculated.

Aspects of the day will include seeing some excelling examples of Captive Bred reptiles, both perfect for beginners and for the more expert of keepers amongst us, as well as mingling with fellow exotics keepers. Highlights will include educational talks on Beginning with Reptiles, as well as other aspects of Reptile and Exotics keeping. Our Guest Speaker will be Pete Blake, of The Reptile Zone. 

We understand that the event is in the middle of two established expos/shows, but we also understand there is a mass culture of those who are not able to travel, for example, to Doncaster, due to the journey. We feel that, being just off the motorway, we are accessible for a majority of the South, such as Wales, Devon, The Midlands, London and all other areas in between.

If you would like to book a table for this event or more information, please e-mail: [email protected]
If you have any questions, please message me here, or e-mail the above address.

Thank you.


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## Harbinger

Any idea if there will be invertebrates on sale?


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## SWest Exotics

dEsSiCaTa_UK said:


> Any idea if there will be invertebrates on sale?


We are currently looking for table holders and breeders, but inverts and amphibian breeders are welcome to show and sell at the expo, which is why we have chosen to call it an exotics expo. With any luck we'll have a wide selection of different exotics available.


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## SNAKEWISPERA

Drop me a email please at [email protected]


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## Berber King

Do you have anything in writing from the council to guarantee the venue once the animal lib nutters get wind of it?


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## SWest Exotics

SNAKEWISPERA said:


> Drop me a email please at [email protected]


E-mail sent!



Berber King said:


> Do you have anything in writing from the council to guarantee the venue once the animal lib nutters get wind of it?


Replied to by PM, but for anyone else asking a similar/same question, we have been speaking to the council on this matter, and they are fully behind us.


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## penfold

sorry wont be doing this one 3 shows in 3 weeks my animals will never get fed good luck with it though:2thumb:


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## djjohn

is this members only or open to the public


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## SWest Exotics

penfold said:


> sorry wont be doing this one 3 shows in 3 weeks my animals will never get fed good luck with it though:2thumb:


Haha! Thank you! : victory:



djjohn said:


> is this members only or open to the public


It is open to the public, though there is an entry fee, which is above.


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## Mirf

At last a show that's less than an hour from me and one I know how to get to :no1:


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## kayskritters

About time - not 4 hours from Devon!.......Whoop!!


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## djjohn

After reading the FBH's clarification on the legalities of Breeders Meetings (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/reptile-shows-breeder-meetings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html) is this event 100% legal?? We wont be attending if it could possibly be opening ourselves up to prosecution and having a negative effect on our hobby. 

Can you clarify this?


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## _jake_

Coool


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## 9Red

djjohn said:


> After reading the FBH's clarification on the legalities of Breeders Meetings (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/reptile-shows-breeder-meetings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html) is this event 100% legal?? We wont be attending if it could possibly be opening ourselves up to prosecution and having a negative effect on our hobby.
> 
> Can you clarify this?


This is a good point - if the show is not being held as a recognised breeders meeting then chances are it is not fully legal and the antis will be all over it like a rash. Can we get some clarification on this please?


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## SWest Exotics

From The Organiser.

Having read some of the current threads regarding the "legality" of the SouthWest Exotics Expo in September, I would like to state the following.

In organising this Expo, we the organisers have consulted with the local authorities who will also be attending the expo. In addition to this we have also arranged for an exotics vetinarian to be present on the day.

We believe that the "terms and conditions" that have been drafted make this show fully compliant.

Any potential exhibitor has the choice of booking and therefore complying with the rules.

We as an organiser will be offering independant advice on owning an exotic through a recognised expert in the field together with a presence of a vetinarian along with the presence of the local Council Animal Welfare.

We believe that these measures exceed any that have been operated before and have been devised to ensure that the welfare of the exotics is paramount.

We respect everyones right to their point of view, and do not wish to be drawn into any debate.

We look forward to hearing from any person who would either like to attend as an exhibitor or as a visitor on the day.

Thanks to all those that have already booked and we looked forward to seeing you all in the South West.


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## _jake_

Any updates?


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## Angi

Sounds good to me  I might even book a table:2thumb:


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## _jake_

Any dart frogs and crestttiiiiesss?


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## 55ebailey

sounds cool cant wait


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## andy007

Yay, a show closer to Cornwall than Outer Mongolia:2thumb:

Hope all the planning is going well, and looks like we might be contacting you about a table, if you still have space?


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## toddsdevil

can't wait will defo be there as:2thumb:


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## steve_3125

I will be there! meet after anyone?

Steve


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## _jake_

Few good pubs locally! Three Brooks / The Parkway


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## steve_3125

Lets get this Organized then! : victory:

Steve


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## Chris Newman

Having been forwarded a copy of the booking form for the South West Exotic Expo [extract below] it appears to be very clear this is event is not organised by an established club or sociality and is therefore clearly not lawful. 

*It is not simply a question of no commercial traders offering livestock for sale, if an event is organised by a private individual, as in this case, they are not lawful.* 


*South West Exotics Expo*​Planned date: 5th/ 12th September 2010​​*Need to know: *


Venue: Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre (Main Sports Hall)
Opening doors at 9am for Table Holders. Loading at rear of building.
Finishing time is 3pm for both table holders and members of the public.
All animals will be checked by our vet sponsor. 
No commercial traders (pet shop license holders) may hold a table and sell animals.
 
Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre,
Fiddlers Wood Lane, 
Bradley Stoke
South Gloucestershire,
BS32 9BS


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## andy007

If this is the case, then its a shame. Was looking forward to not having to travel a million miles to a show.

Where does one find the relevant legislation regarding shows like this though?


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## _jake_

So it isn't on? I'm only aloud some reps again if I get them from this show! :'(


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## Pete Q

I have a question or two.
Is the venue and the council pre'peared for the possible threats and lies from the animal rights people ? 

Example, that any children that use the venue, even after a week of the event could become very ill or worse, are you ready for this ?

If the council back down to these threats, and trust me I've seen it happen, do you think it may put other shows at risk ? 
ie they will go after the current shows armed with success.


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## SleepyD

andy007 said:


> If this is the case, then its a shame. Was looking forward to not having to travel a million miles to a show.
> 
> Where does one find the relevant legislation regarding shows like this though?


Hiya ~ there's a post by Chris which explains the ins and outs with regards Legal shows etc here ~ http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html

Have to say as much as I'd like to have a rep expo a lot closer to us down here I really would not want to hand the anti's more ammo then they need.


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## tonkaz0

Chris Newman said:


> Having been forwarded a copy of the booking form for the South West Exotic Expo [extract below] it appears to be very clear this is event is not organised by an established club or sociality and is therefore clearly not lawful.
> 
> *It is not simply a question of no commercial traders offering livestock for sale, if an event is organised by a private individual, as in this case, they are not lawful.*
> 
> 
> 
> *South West Exotics Expo*​
> 
> Planned date: 5th/ 12th September 2010​
> 
> *Need to know: *
> 
> 
> Venue: Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre (Main Sports Hall)
> Opening doors at 9am for Table Holders. Loading at rear of building.
> Finishing time is 3pm for both table holders and members of the public.
> All animals will be checked by our vet sponsor.
> No commercial traders (pet shop license holders) may hold a table and sell animals.
> Bradley Stoke Leisure Centre,
> Fiddlers Wood Lane,
> Bradley Stoke
> South Gloucestershire,
> BS32 9BS


 
*Isnt there anyway that some of the big organisers could give a bit of help and guidence to make it lawful and find a way to put this show on tracks?, obviously their local council is on side! It would be good to get a show in our neck of the wood for a change.*


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## andy007

Cheers Sleepy

So OP, what's the score regarding the legal requirements of SW Exotics Expo? Are all the boxes ticked? If not, form a society and try again in a couple of years, but don't jeopardize other shows by going ahead without fulfilling these requirements.


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## SWest Exotics

*CONFIRMED****South West Expo in September*****CONFIRMED*


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## Jazzy B Bunny

Wish I could go  my boyfriend has to work though. Are there any train stations or coach stations near by? Don't really want to go on my own but will consider it.


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## _jake_

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Wish I could go  my boyfriend has to work though. Are there any train stations or coach stations near by? Don't really want to go on my own but will consider it.


Parkway is very close, I believe there is a bus that goes from there to Willowbrook shopping centre which is a min walk away:2thumb: Or would take about 20mins to walk to from the station.:no1:


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## Mirf

SWest Exotics said:


> image


Brilliant. I'm really looking forward to this one!!:2thumb:


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## andy007

Hi SWest Exotics

The flyer is very nice, but could you confirm whether or not the legal requirements are met - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html


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## SWest Exotics

*Reply to Tonkax0 and andy007*

Sorry to be repeating myself but all legal requirements have been met in conjunction with the Local Council (which as was stated is very supportive). I think there is some confusion over requirements as laid out by clubs or organisations.

As we are not members of any of these clubs we have organised this show with the support of the local council, who will be exhibiting at the show, local veterinarian who will be exhibiting at the show and a Nationally recognised expert in the Exotics field.

Once again, thanks to all those that have offered their support.

Annie and Jon


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## andy007

You can understand the concerns though? With all the problems seen at other shows, the last thing anyone would want is any negative publicity.

We are still considering a table, but obviously wanted to ensure we wouldn't be committing an offence etc etc..... Can't blame me for that

Cheers

p.s. (from other thread) I'm not a "blogger" but a prospective customer


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## Maureen Collinson

Annie and Jon,

I am sure that people are understanding what you are saying, but it is to be expected that they could have nagging doubts that need to be* addressed fully* one way or another.

Just take the couple of paragraphs below posted by Chris Newman, and one can fully see why.

I wish it were not this way but it would appear it is upon reading the comments below.

Mo. 

By Chris Newman.

Events not organised by a bona fide club or society would be deemed as ‘commercial’ and therefore fall under the remit of 1951 Pet Animals Act. However, as one day events [in a public place] cannot be licensed under the aforementioned Act they are unlawful. Under these circumstances the Federation of British Herpetologists could not condone or support any events which fail to meet the requirements as outlay above.

*It must be made clear that any person organising or selling at an event not covered by the definition of a Breeders Meeting would be committing a criminal offence, as such would be liable prosecution leading to substantial fine or imprisonment should action be brought by a Local or National Authority. *


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## Pete Q

SWest Exotics said:


> Sorry to be repeating myself but all legal requirements have been met in conjunction with the Local Council (which as was stated is very supportive). I think there is some confusion over requirements as laid out by clubs or organisations.
> 
> As we are not members of any of these clubs we have organised this show with the support of the local council, who will be exhibiting at the show, local veterinarian who will be exhibiting at the show and a Nationally recognised expert in the Exotics field.
> 
> Once again, thanks to all those that have offered their support.
> 
> Annie and Jon


Can I ask you to wait, start a reptile club. Take your time, this could be a great show in years to come.

Your good relations with the local council will be over if they find themselfs in a fight with the law.


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## Mirf

Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here. What _exactly_ has the o.p. done wrong here? :?


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## _jake_

Mirf said:


> Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here. What _exactly_ has the o.p. done wrong here? :?


I think legally before a reptile show can take place that sells animals has to be organised by a reptile club or otherwise it falls under some pet shop license law. I think becuase a club show is just for hobbyist whereas if it isn't through one and anybody can purchase from there this would sort of make them a pet shop:lol2::lol2:


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## andy007

Mirf said:


> Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here. What _exactly_ has the o.p. done wrong here? :?


This may help - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html


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## Mirf

andy007 said:


> This may help - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ings/523188-shows-expos-law-fbh-position.html


Thanks for the link. I missed the comments by Chris for some reason, which is why I was a tad confused. :blush:

So this show is definately _not_ linked to any recognised club or organisation then? Can op clarify this please, so we know if this is legal or not?


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## SWest Exotics

*Clarification*

************SOUTH WEST EXOTICS SHOW*********************​ 
Dear All,

As the organiser of this Expo, I can confirm that we have received full and written consent for this show to go ahead by Animal Welfare Department within *South Gloucestershire Council*. 

*THIS SHOW IS LEGAL and Authorisedby South Gloucestershire Council*​ 
As *South Gloucestershire Council* is the local authorising body we have been granted the full support and to confirm this they will be present on the day. 

I have read the FBH's statement regarding legality of such shows, and as I am not a member of the FBH, I am not bound by their guidlines. If in deed this show was oragnised by the FBH or under an umbrella organisation, I can not see what else would be done to improve the welfare of animals at the show. To this end *South Glocestershire Council* will have officers present at the show offering advice on responsible pet ownership. This is not something any other show I have been too has provided. Perhaps the FBH would like to adopt this as a best practice.

I am increasingly feeling that the "threads" running regards the oposition to this show are due to commercial reasons, and loss of revenue for such clubs or societies.

To those of you that have booked tables already I would like to thank you, to those of you who are thinking about booking but put of by this legal or not legal arguement, *I invite you to contact me DIRECT on 07599 803 324*.

Heres to a great show in September.

Jon


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## tonkaz0

Is there any chance you might put up a list of dealers and sellers who have said they are going to be there please?.


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## SWest Exotics

*list of suppliers*

In response to Tonkaz, a list of suppiers!!!!!

I believe in a fair playing field, and I dont see a list of suppliers being published on here for other the shows or am I missing something?
I really cant see why a minority of people here are getting worked up about this, after all I thought competition was good.

Closer to the show date we will say what is likely to be brought to the show, and why are individuals are so keen to see who is attending.... so you can bully them as well???? 

I have offered to discuss the organisation of this Expo with anyone and provided my mobile number but foresome reason they appear to be more interested of writing negative comments here.

Once again if you have any comments both positive and negative, I am more than happy to discuss this over the phone (07599 803 324).


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## _jake_

I believe the member was only interested in which breeders were going to find any that will be interested in. I.e Leos


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## SWest Exotics

*Whose going*

Thanks Jake, we will be saying what is likely to be there closer to the time as its just 2 months to go. Closer the time we will say what is likely to be at the show.
Cheers J


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## Pete Q

I still have concerns, if I pm you my number will you phone me ? I'm pay as you go or home number.


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## Pete Q

SWest Exotics said:


> In response to Tonkaz, a list of suppiers!!!!!
> 
> I believe in a fair playing field, and I dont see a list of suppliers being published on here for other the shows or am I missing something?
> I really cant see why a minority of people here are getting worked up about this, after all I thought competition was good.
> 
> Closer to the show date we will say what is likely to be brought to the show, and why are individuals are so keen to see who is attending.... so you can bully them as well????
> 
> I have offered to discuss the organisation of this Expo with anyone and provided my mobile number but foresome reason they appear to be more interested of writing negative comments here.
> 
> Once again if you have any comments both positive and negative, I am more than happy to discuss this over the phone (07599 803 324).


It's important that everyone knows whats happening, positive and negative, while a one on one phone call might help, but if there is something still not right after that call then it's only right that people no about the issues.

It has nothing to do with competition, give me a call and I'll try and help you understand why some people feel the way they do.

Put your point across also.


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## Pete Q

SWest Exotics said:


> ************SOUTH WEST EXOTICS SHOW*********************​
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> As the organiser of this Expo, I can confirm that we have received full and written consent for this show to go ahead by Animal Welfare Department within *South Gloucestershire Council*.
> 
> *THIS SHOW IS LEGAL and Authorisedby South Gloucestershire Council*​
> As *South Gloucestershire Council* is the local authorising body we have been granted the full support and to confirm this they will be present on the day.
> 
> I have read the FBH's statement regarding legality of such shows, and as I am not a member of the FBH, I am not bound by their guidlines. If in deed this show was oragnised by the FBH or under an umbrella organisation, I can not see what else would be done to improve the welfare of animals at the show. To this end *South Glocestershire Council* will have officers present at the show offering advice on responsible pet ownership. This is not something any other show I have been too has provided. Perhaps the FBH would like to adopt this as a best practice.
> 
> I am increasingly feeling that the "threads" running regards the oposition to this show are due to commercial reasons, and loss of revenue for such clubs or societies.
> 
> To those of you that have booked tables already I would like to thank you, to those of you who are thinking about booking but put of by this legal or not legal arguement, *I invite you to contact me DIRECT on 07599 803 324*.
> 
> Heres to a great show in September.
> 
> Jon


I've tried calling you, you have your phone off ?
I have a couple of points, the officers offering help, do they have reptile keeping experience ? and what help are they advising ?

You have a vet on the day, thats good, and nothing says you need one, but does he / she have reptile experience ?

Most of what you have seen are guildlines from the FBH and what other clubs have agreed on for sure, but for the part about having to be a reptile club to run a show, are you saying thats not the case ?
How are you getting round this ? 

Does the council no about this law ?

I'm just looking for the right answers then I'm happy.
I'd like to go to this show, but cannot if it's going to put other future shows at risk. 
If you get this wrong thats what might happen, thats what some people are thinking and thats why your getting some unwelcome feedback.


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## tonkaz0

SWest Exotics said:


> In response to Tonkaz, a list of suppiers!!!!!
> 
> I believe in a fair playing field, and I dont see a list of suppliers being published on here for other the shows or am I missing something?
> I really cant see why a minority of people here are getting worked up about this, after all I thought competition was good.
> 
> Closer to the show date we will say what is likely to be brought to the show, and why are individuals are so keen to see who is attending.... so you can bully them as well????
> 
> I have offered to discuss the organisation of this Expo with anyone and provided my mobile number but foresome reason they appear to be more interested of writing negative comments here.
> 
> Once again if you have any comments both positive and negative, I am more than happy to discuss this over the phone (07599 803 324).


 

*I think you really have to chill out! as you winding yourself about folks asking perfectly normal questions,*

*This was a genuine request!!!!, when I go to Hamm or other shows they sometimes have a trader/sellers list , if you knew a bit more about these things you would know that! *

*what part of my queery was bullying and negative?,please read it again!, I believe this to be in your head!,*

*I really did want to go to the show and even have a table!, but if the likes of you are running it then perhaps not!, you do not answer all the questions that I would like to know even though you keep saying if you have any comments possitive or negative get in touch,*
*I do not wish to phone you about anything that havent already asked on here and after what you put here Im glad I didnt ring you, *
*the thing thats put me off going to this show more than anything is your ignorance and negative manner,*
*please do not quote me again unless you have something productive to say.*


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## penfold

Pete Q said:


> I've tried calling you, you have your phone off ?
> I have a couple of points, the officers offering help, do they have reptile keeping experience ? and what help are they advising ?
> 
> You have a vet on the day, thats good, and nothing says you need one, but does he / she have reptile experience ?
> 
> Most of what you have seen are guildlines from the FBH and what other clubs have agreed on for sure, but for the part about having to be a reptile club to run a show, are you saying thats not the case ?
> How are you getting round this ?
> 
> Does the council no about this law ?
> 
> I'm just looking for the right answers then I'm happy.
> I'd like to go to this show, but cannot if it's going to put other future shows at risk.
> If you get this wrong thats what might happen, thats what some people are thinking and thats why your getting some unwelcome feedback.


 totally agree with what you are saying it has nothing to do with bullying but everything to do with the hard work people have put in to keep reptile shows going one mis organised show could ruin it all


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## SWest Exotics

Regarding the messages below:

We have decided not to supply the list of breeders on this forum at this stage, as there is still debate over the legality of the show. Calling us ignorant does not create a good image of the Reptile Keeping hobby, nor for this exact Reptile Forum. 

Yes, some things do get misinterpreted over the internet, and we apologise if we have appeared rude or arrogant in our approach, but we do stress that we are decent, animal loving people, who merely wanted to create a show in our area in order to allow other herps to see what we see as a must for all Exotics Keepers. We do not wish to ruin anything, nor have any intention of letting such an important thing in our lives be destroyed. But because we are new, we are seen as, I hesitate to say, untrustworthy, and damaging to the cause. But how does anyone start out on this forum? Because we have been members since 2010, this does not make us any less of a contributor than someone who has joined and been a member since 2007, etc. Though you may not want to admit this fact, some of the wiser ones amongst us will admit this is true.

Nothing more will be said on our part until we have received an agreement to publish a letter from the Council regarding this issue. We hope we can, after this, conclude this issue, and look forward to a successful show.


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## Pete Q

Jon has phoned me, he has answered all my questions and happy that he's doing everything he can to make the show successful.

Our only problem was not being a club, is it legal.

It's one thing, but it's everything for me.

The council are happy it's within the law, but more proof either way is needed.

It's great to have a positive council, and great we have people wanting to arrange shows and take on AR, if you can get rid of the law issue and show you are within it you will have my support.


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## Pete Q

SWest Exotics said:


> Regarding the messages below:
> 
> We have decided not to supply the list of breeders on this forum at this stage, as there is still debate over the legality of the show. Calling us ignorant does not create a good image of the Reptile Keeping hobby, nor for this exact Reptile Forum.
> 
> Yes, some things do get misinterpreted over the internet, and we apologise if we have appeared rude or arrogant in our approach, but we do stress that we are decent, animal loving people, who merely wanted to create a show in our area in order to allow other herps to see what we see as a must for all Exotics Keepers. We do not wish to ruin anything, nor have any intention of letting such an important thing in our lives be destroyed. But because we are new, we are seen as, I hesitate to say, untrustworthy, and damaging to the cause. But how does anyone start out on this forum? Because we have been members since 2010, this does not make us any less of a contributor than someone who has joined and been a member since 2007, etc. Though you may not want to admit this fact, some of the wiser ones amongst us will admit this is true.
> 
> Nothing more will be said on our part until we have received an agreement to publish a letter from the Council regarding this issue. We hope we can, after this, conclude this issue, and look forward to a successful show.


Well I must say we had a very good honest exchange of views, I found it worth while and can see how much it means to you to get this right. 
I wish you luck with that.


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## _jake_

SWest Exotics said:


> Regarding the messages below:
> 
> We have decided not to supply the list of breeders on this forum at this stage, as there is still debate over the legality of the show. Calling us ignorant does not create a good image of the Reptile Keeping hobby, nor for this exact Reptile Forum.
> 
> Yes, some things do get misinterpreted over the internet, and we apologise if we have appeared rude or arrogant in our approach, but we do stress that we are decent, animal loving people, who merely wanted to create a show in our area in order to allow other herps to see what we see as a must for all Exotics Keepers. We do not wish to ruin anything, nor have any intention of letting such an important thing in our lives be destroyed. But because we are new, we are seen as, I hesitate to say, untrustworthy, and damaging to the cause. But how does anyone start out on this forum? Because we have been members since 2010, this does not make us any less of a contributor than someone who has joined and been a member since 2007, etc. Though you may not want to admit this fact, some of the wiser ones amongst us will admit this is true.
> 
> Nothing more will be said on our part until we have received an agreement to publish a letter from the Council regarding this issue. We hope we can, after this, conclude this issue, and look forward to a successful show.


Adding on from this I can say I have met both John and Annie and you can see they both care very much about their reptiles. I was very jealous seeing their collection. I purchased a Leopard gecko from you sometime last year: victory:


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## andy007

Not publishing who's taking what to the show in advance, will possibly reduce the amount of visitors as a lot of people travel a number of hours to get animals they want. 
People asking questions has naff all to do with competition, its because there are some small issues we wanted clearing up. Who can blame people for that? I don't know you or anything about you. The last "Expo" in the South West (Exeter) fell apart when the council pulled the plug leaving many breeders out of pocket.
The only issue I'm confused on is this matter to do with Clubs, Societies etc etc ....and if not its illegal? As the FBH statement clearly says that if a show is not held under certain guidelines then it is illegal and the organisers and traders can be liable to prosecution. The words "illegal & prosecution" indicate to me, that this means in the eyes of the law, not a club policy.
This is the only thing I would like to see clarified by how it comes within the law. Having this or that person present on the day, be it council or vets etc means nowt. The 1980's rave parties had hired security guards, but they were still illegal
As you can see by my first post on the subject of this show, I would like nothing better than a show down this neck of the woods, so please stop assuming that everyones against you.


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## SWest Exotics

*Whose attending the SWES*

Morning everyone, just picking up on the bit abit who will be attending and what will likely to be there. We will be listing closer to the time as we are still 2 months away from the show date.

I hear what a few are saying regards to the "legality" of this show and we hope to be able to publish a copy of a letter from the Council to confirm their sanction of this show. As the Council are also the "enforcement body" for any action if it were taken. If they have sanctioned and supporting this event I really dont see how they are going to take action against themselves.

I really hope that we can resolve this point so as many people can come to Bristol. We are listening to the comments here and are trying to address these points.


----------



## Chris Newman

SWest Exotics said:


> ************SOUTH WEST EXOTICS SHOW*********************​
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> As the organiser of this Expo, I can confirm that we have received full and written consent for this show to go ahead by Animal Welfare Department within *South Gloucestershire Council*.
> 
> *THIS SHOW IS LEGAL and Authorisedby South Gloucestershire Council*​
> As *South Gloucestershire Council* is the local authorising body we have been granted the full support and to confirm this they will be present on the day.
> 
> I have read the FBH's statement regarding legality of such shows, and as I am not a member of the FBH, I am not bound by their guidlines. If in deed this show was oragnised by the FBH or under an umbrella organisation, I can not see what else would be done to improve the welfare of animals at the show. To this end *South Glocestershire Council* will have officers present at the show offering advice on responsible pet ownership. This is not something any other show I have been too has provided. Perhaps the FBH would like to adopt this as a best practice.
> 
> I am increasingly feeling that the "threads" running regards the oposition to this show are due to commercial reasons, and loss of revenue for such clubs or societies.
> 
> To those of you that have booked tables already I would like to thank you, to those of you who are thinking about booking but put of by this legal or not legal arguement, *I invite you to contact me DIRECT on 07599 803 324*.
> 
> Heres to a great show in September.
> 
> Jon


 
*FBH Statement on shows/breeders meetings*​ 
*The FBH guidance on shows and their legality is biased on the Judicial Review of 2005:* Haynes (R on the application of) v Stafford Borough Council. This clarifies the existing legislation, the Pet Animals Act 1951. We have also taken into account the subsequent guidance issued by DEFRA on the 4th of April 2007.

*The FBH view is this judicial review makes it very clear such events where animals are offered for sale, such as the South Western Exotic Show, are not complaint with existing legislation.* This event is not being organised for or on behalf of its members [a club or society] it is purely a commercial events and therefore not complaint with the law of the land. *A Local Authority is not empowered to exceed the application of the law as dictated by Parliament*. Indeed a Local Authority which permits an event which it knows, or reasonably should have know is not lawful exposes itself to legal action.

This is not an issue of animal welfare, we are sure the welfare of animals would be adequately catered for. This is about the application of the law as it stands today. *The FBH view is very clear in that the event known as the South Western Exotic Show is not legal.* 

Chris Newman

Chairman 
Federation of British Herpetologists


----------



## loxocemus

the fbh views are merely that, ur views, as the op has said he is not a member therefore isn't bound by ur views, ur views are based on ur interpretation of the laws, the council the op is working with obviously think different, i think ur statement of the fbh doesn't view this show as legal doesn't have as much weight or relevance u think it does.

rgds
ed



Chris Newman said:


> *FBH Statement on shows/breeders meetings*​
> *The FBH guidance on shows and their legality is biased on the Judicial Review of 2005:* Haynes (R on the application of) v Stafford Borough Council. This clarifies the existing legislation, the Pet Animals Act 1951. We have also taken into account the subsequent guidance issued by DEFRA on the 4th of April 2007.
> 
> *The FBH view is this judicial review makes it very clear such events where animals are offered for sale, such as the South Western Exotic Show, are not complaint with existing legislation.* This event is not being organised for or on behalf of its members [a club or society] it is purely a commercial events and therefore not complaint with the law of the land. *A Local Authority is not empowered to exceed the application of the law as dictated by Parliament*. Indeed a Local Authority which permits an event which it knows, or reasonably should have know is not lawful exposes itself to legal action.
> 
> This is not an issue of animal welfare, we are sure the welfare of animals would be adequately catered for. This is about the application of the law as it stands today. *The FBH view is very clear in that the event known as the South Western Exotic Show is not legal.*
> 
> Chris Newman
> 
> Chairman
> Federation of British Herpetologists


----------



## Mirf

Well I for one am getting seriously confused here.....:?


----------



## _jake_

loxocemus said:


> the fbh views are merely that, ur views, as the op has said he is not a member therefore isn't bound by ur views, ur views are based on ur interpretation of the laws, the council the op is working with obviously think different, i think ur statement of the fbh doesn't view this show as legal doesn't have as much weight or relevance u think it does.
> 
> rgds
> ed


Completely agree. :no1:


----------



## Zak

loxocemus said:


> the fbh views are merely that, ur views, as the op has said he is not a member therefore isn't bound by ur views, ur views are based on ur interpretation of the laws, the council the op is working with obviously think different, i think ur statement of the fbh doesn't view this show as legal doesn't have as much weight or relevance u think it does.
> 
> rgds
> ed



Ed you'd be surprised the weight that Mr Newman holds within the reptile community. 

The FBH represents all reptile keepers within the UK, regardless if you're a member or not. The government use them as a advisory body regarding reptile issues, so yes you might not be a part of them but the government at least engages with them unlike any other UK reptile organisation.

The FBH want there to be UK shows they just want to be organised in such a way that the anti's have no leverage over the hobby, this includes following the letter of the law regarding the organisation of the events. The case Mr Newman refers to from 2006, is the last large scale animal fair whereby legislation was reformed, dictating that such events need to be organised by established socities (in existence for 2 years or more). 

What i believe the FBH is scared of is that the SW Exotics Expo goes ahead, is infiltrated by antis (which it will be) and they gain evidence that leads to prosecution of breeders, organisers and the council alike. As soon as the anti's gain this prosecution shows will be seriously compromised, even well established ones such as IHS Doncaster. Councils will not want to run the risk of being prosecuted or gaining bad publicity so wont allow shows to go ahead.


----------



## Pete Q

Zak said:


> Ed you'd be surprised the weight that Mr Newman holds within the reptile community.
> 
> The FBH represents all reptile keepers within the UK, regardless if you're a member or not. The government use them as a advisory body regarding reptile issues, so yes you might not be a part of them but the government at least engages with them unlike any other UK reptile organisation.
> 
> The FBH want there to be UK shows they just want to be organised in such a way that the anti's have no leverage over the hobby, this includes following the letter of the law regarding the organisation of the events. The case Mr Newman refers to from 2006, is the last large scale animal fair whereby legislation was reformed, dictating that such events need to be organised by established socities (in existence for 2 years or more).
> 
> What i believe the FBH is scared of is that the SW Exotics Expo goes ahead, is infiltrated by antis (which it will be) and they gain evidence that leads to prosecution of breeders, organisers and the council alike. As soon as the anti's gain this prosecution shows will be seriously compromised, even well established ones such as IHS Doncaster. Councils will not want to run the risk of being prosecuted or gaining bad publicity so wont allow shows to go ahead.


Very well explained Zak.
And it's not just the FBH scared, all the breeders that have tables and all the clubs that run their own shows.
The above statement from the FBH says it all and is pretty much how our phone call went.


----------



## penfold

guys you have just summed everything up perfectly


----------



## Maureen Collinson

SWest Exotics said:


> Nothing more will be said on our part until we have received an agreement to publish a letter from the Council regarding this issue. We hope we can, after this, conclude this issue, and look forward to a successful show.


As much as I like the sound of what has been planned, and involves some people that I know well and like very much, it is with a heavy heart that I have to come in and say that everything I have read via links here and from the DEFRA site etc, lead me to believe that this show is *not* legal, therefore I hope that if you produce a letter from the Council, it will reflect the fact that they "the Council" have looked into this matter fully themselves first before agreeing that all will bide well with not just the organisers, but the people selling their dry and surplus stocks too. At least this way it will be the Councils fault if anybodies, should it come to any possible prosecution.

The hobby is going through a harder time than ever at present, and it has taken a mountain to climb behind the scenes to get it this far, but it could take just one tiny piece of renegade rock for them to trip over thus causing them to tumble all the way down to the bottom. This being the case, it is not the time for divide, but instead talking this issue over in full with the FBH as they are the ones at the fore front leading this hobby, and have been doing so steadily for years now, so have earned the right to be heard and listened to surely?

Mo.


----------



## andy007

loxocemus said:


> the fbh views are merely that, ur views, as the op has said he is not a member therefore isn't bound by ur views, ur views are based on ur interpretation of the laws, the council the op is working with obviously think different, i think ur statement of the fbh doesn't view this show as legal doesn't have as much weight or relevance u think it does.
> 
> rgds
> ed



You're missing the point I believe. What Chris has posted are the FBH guidelines appertaining to the legality of shows/meetings where reptiles are offered for sale. These guidelines are based on "Actual UK Legislation", not something the FBH have made up. The Pet Animals Act 1951 is an act passed in government, and as such is applicable to all. I wouldn't expect Chris to be posting this information if it weren't true.
Unfortunately I have seen more evidence to suggest this show is not being held with in the law. I say unfortunately as it would be a darn sight closer than any other show.


----------



## clairethorn

So would I be right in thinking that if a club or society organised this event it would be fine and legal according to the FBH?


----------



## Georgehill

Who the hell are the FBH anyway and what rights do they have over anything? The website looks like very amateur and I cant see that they have any authority over who does what and where. Please forgive my ignorance but unless this FBH has some sort of government backing or professional body overseeing it I can't see why people are worried about them so much.
IF they are a professional body and have backing then why don't they get some funding for a better looking website. I just googled it and it looks like someone just grabbed the domain name and set up a website.

I know next to nothing about all this but this is my opinion on the whole thing. Basically, what I am saying is, you would'nt buy a car from a website if it looked dodgy so why would you take notice of the FBH one?

(here comes the backlash) :bash:


----------



## Georgehill

Also - why is their a Kempton Park Expo on the FBH website advertised. How is this different to the South West one?
I guess the FBH are involved so that's ok?

Nothing on the website works. Coming soon! Coming Soon!

If they hold so much power with everyone then get some cash off people and sort your bloody website out and look professional damit!


----------



## clairethorn

I agree with you George, the website looks very amateurish and the only thing that seems to work on it is the 'donate' button :bash:


----------



## Georgehill

Exactly.

This whole thing is a con.

they are advertising the Kempton Park Show which has animals for sale as people have stated what they are getting and what is on offer.
Yet the FBH say that the South West one is illegal! WTF!!

So you have to be in with the FBH to do anything to do with reptiles and exotics. What a load of BS. I think they have set this up, put the wind up people by telling them what they can and cant do and then when it suits them and they are involved in it they totally change their tune.

I bet id the SW expo gave them some cash to piss off they would be fine with it. Even advertise it on their crap website.

Sorry but come on. I can put links to Defra on my website and quote laws that I can get off google. Until someone shows me proof that they are a professional, government approved, recognised body I am just going have to say that I have no confidence in anything they preach.

I might start a website and put a link to 10 downing street on it and say I am the federation of wallet inspectors and ask people to send in their wallets so I can check the money is OK, then if it doesn't comply with my rules I will keep hold of it. www.federationofwalletinspectors.org is available for £2.99 for 2 years on 123-reg. Excellent! :gasp:


----------



## Natrix

Georgehill said:


> Also - why is their a Kempton Park Expo on the FBH website advertised. How is this different to the South West one?
> I guess the FBH are involved so that's ok?
> 
> Nothing on the website works. Coming soon! Coming Soon!
> 
> If they hold so much power with everyone then get some cash off people and sort your bloody website out and look professional damit!


The FBH is the organisation that has kept the legal shows running for the last ten years. 
Last year nearly every event was attacked by the Anti's and those that took place only did so after legal advice and support from the FBH. 
That legal advice and support cost the FBH and the clubs involved well over 10K 

The Kempton park show is a direct result of all the attacks on shows last year. At the end of last year many of the clubs felt unwilling to waste time and money fighting to keep their individual smaller shows running against opposition from the Anti's. As a result the Kempton park show is being jointly run by the FBH, ERAC, BRAS, EHS, PRAS and TCHG.

The FBH is an advisory group for the reptile hobby. It works in the real world. Having a pretty web site is very low on it's priorities both time wise and money wise. 

Given the amount of coverage the FBH has had over the last decade on web sites such as this I'm surprised you are not more aware of what it does and has done. Why don't you take a look at some of last years show threads on this forum and see what has happened to shows in the past.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman


----------



## oscar96

What shows were stopped by Anti's the only one I know of is one that you lot stopped by ringing the council and telling them it was ilegal does that not make you the Anti's unless the shows join the FBH first?


----------



## Natrix

clairethorn said:


> I agree with you George, the website looks very amateurish and the only thing that seems to work on it is the 'donate' button :bash:


Claire,
Did you know that representatives from the FBH and IHS attended a meeting in brussels last year that was set up to rubber stamp a European wide ban on the keeping of amphibians? 

Animal rights groups were demanding a ban based on the risk of spreading disease to the native amphibeans in Europe. The only thing that stopped it was the scientific evidence provided by the FBH and IHS.

Looking at your list of pets below, all those in red would of been illegal by now if it were not for the actions of the FBH.
Also the FBH is fighting an ongoing UK attempt to ban certain animals that might naturalise or survive in the UK and pose a risk to native species. those in bold may still be banned under UK law

_1.2 red eyed tree frogs, 4.2 whites tree frogs, 0.0.4 african reed frogs, 0.0.2 phyllomedusa hypochondrialis, 1.1 chubby frogs, 1 african foam nest tree frog, 1 american green tree frog, *2 european green tree frogs,* *2 yellow-bellied toads, 1.0 fire salamander, 1.2 marbled newts, 2.1 fire bellied toads,* 1.2 leopard geckos, 2.2.32 chinese fire bellied newts, 1.1 yemen chameleons, 0.2 musk turtles, 4.4 *alpine newts,* 260l tropical fish tank, 0.1 greyhound 'Ellie', 200l cold fish tank, 2.0 axolotls_

The FBH tends to be more active in the real world than on the net.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman.


----------



## Maureen Collinson

oscar96 said:


> What shows were stopped by Anti's the only one I know of is one that you lot stopped by ringing the council and telling them it was ilegal does that not make you the Anti's unless the shows join the FBH first?


I really can't believe you are starting up again.  I thought it was just your Brother that was trying to cause trouble and that you had changed. Guess I am wrong. 

It is fact that shows were stopped last year, and there is enough proof on the net proving it if you care to search , and it was thanks to the FBH that the shows did indeed still go on.

I assume you are still sore because your show was cancelled altogether but come on Jason. Enough is enough.

On another note, I see you are now starting up a Club and meetings to go with it.  I wish you all very success with it, and feel sure you will succeed.

Mo.


----------



## Natrix

oscar96 said:


> What shows were stopped by Anti's the only one I know of is one that you lot stopped by ringing the council and telling them it was ilegal does that not make you the Anti's unless the shows join the FBH first?


As far as I'm aware the FBH has never rung up a council and said a show was illegal nor does the FBH force any body to join. 

The FBH exists to protect the hobby and it will provide help for any legal show that comes under attack from the Anti's regardless of their membership. 
Sadly if an event comes under attack and is not fully legal, we may not be able to help it, nor can we help any sellers that find themselves being prosecuted for selling at an illegal event. 
There is also a risk that something could happen in court that would set a legal president that would effect the legal shows hence our concerns about this event.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman


----------



## Berber King

Georgehill said:


> Who the hell are the FBH anyway and what rights do they have over anything? The website looks like very amateur and I cant see that they have any authority over who does what and where. Please forgive my ignorance but unless this FBH has some sort of government backing or professional body overseeing it I can't see why people are worried about them so much.
> IF they are a professional body and have backing then why don't they get some funding for a better looking website. I just googled it and it looks like someone just grabbed the domain name and set up a website.
> 
> *I know next to nothing about all this* but this is my opinion on the whole thing. Basically, what I am saying is, you would'nt buy a car from a website if it looked dodgy so why would you take notice of the FBH one?
> 
> (here comes the backlash) :bash:


Correct,you are an uninformed idiot,Zak stated very clearly what this means.Why not try reading before you spout off.


----------



## Kare

clairethorn said:


> So would I be right in thinking that if a club or society organised this event it would be fine and legal according to the FBH?


Although I believe it is according to law not according to the FBH (and affects animals other than just reptiles) but otherwise I understand this is true, Yes, however there is a limit on the age of the club/society to make sure a club is not founded just to make a trade show. Think they have to be a few years in existence before they can apply to run a show.


----------



## penfold

very well and calmly put natrix :2thumb:think people should do some research before they start slagging of the f.b.h :bash:


----------



## Georgehill

:zzz:

Whatever. 

The FBH does what it likes because if people dont get their permission to do anything they ring up and stop it happening.

If there is so many animal rights people going on about it how come the industry is so big and companies like pets at home are now selling reptiles?
I don't see anyone outside their shops moaning.

At the end of the day the FBH have the words FEDERATION and .org in the web address. Beyond that I just see them as busy bodies causing a lot of faff and trying to put obstacles in peoples way when it suits them.

I don't care how many paragraphs you write about your achievements they mean nothing to me. And all your minions can call me what they like or boot me off the forums. I believe in freedom of speech and if there are any activists that come to demonstrate, well that is their right too.

I take the FBH with a pinch of salt and until I see evidence that they do anything else than write on forums or call the council when a show goes ahead but hasn't kissed their arse first, I will reserve judgment.


----------



## Mirf

Have you actually read any of this thread and the attached links, or is that too much to ask of your single brain cell?


----------



## clairethorn

Kare said:


> Although I believe it is according to law not according to the FBH (and affects animals other than just reptiles) but otherwise I understand this is true, Yes, however there is a limit on the age of the club/society to make sure a club is not founded just to make a trade show. Think they have to be a few years in existence before they can apply to run a show.



Thanks for the easy-reading answer. So if a club or society that had been running for less than a few years wanted to run an event that did not include any sale of animals at all, then would that be ok according to the law and the FBH?


----------



## Georgehill

Natrix said:


> Claire,
> Looking at your list of pets below, all those in red would of been illegal by now if it were not for the actions of the FBH.
> Also the FBH is fighting an ongoing UK attempt to ban certain animals that might naturalise or survive in the UK and pose a risk to native species. those in bold may still be banned under UK law
> 
> _1.2 red eyed tree frogs, 4.2 whites tree frogs, 0.0.4 african reed frogs, 0.0.2 phyllomedusa hypochondrialis, 1.1 chubby frogs, 1 african foam nest tree frog, 1 american green tree frog, *2 european green tree frogs,* *2 yellow-bellied toads, 1.0 fire salamander, 1.2 marbled newts, 2.1 fire bellied toads,* 1.2 leopard geckos, 2.2.32 chinese fire bellied newts, 1.1 yemen chameleons, 0.2 musk turtles, 4.4 *alpine newts,* 260l tropical fish tank, 0.1 greyhound 'Ellie', 200l cold fish tank, 2.0 axolotls_
> 
> The FBH tends to be more active in the real world than on the net.
> 
> Gordon Glasson
> FBH Vice Chairman.


:rotfl: This is getting better.
in the REAL WORLD there are bigger things than you.


----------



## clairethorn

Natrix said:


> Claire,
> Did you know that representatives from the FBH and IHS attended a meeting in brussels last year that was set up to rubber stamp a European wide ban on the keeping of amphibians?
> 
> Animal rights groups were demanding a ban based on the risk of spreading disease to the native amphibeans in Europe. The only thing that stopped it was the scientific evidence provided by the FBH and IHS.
> 
> Looking at your list of pets below, all those in red would of been illegal by now if it were not for the actions of the FBH.
> Also the FBH is fighting an ongoing UK attempt to ban certain animals that might naturalise or survive in the UK and pose a risk to native species. those in bold may still be banned under UK law
> 
> _1.2 red eyed tree frogs, 4.2 whites tree frogs, 0.0.4 african reed frogs, 0.0.2 phyllomedusa hypochondrialis, 1.1 chubby frogs, 1 african foam nest tree frog, 1 american green tree frog, *2 european green tree frogs,* *2 yellow-bellied toads, 1.0 fire salamander, 1.2 marbled newts, 2.1 fire bellied toads,* 1.2 leopard geckos, 2.2.32 chinese fire bellied newts, 1.1 yemen chameleons, 0.2 musk turtles, 4.4 *alpine newts,* 260l tropical fish tank, 0.1 greyhound 'Ellie', 200l cold fish tank, 2.0 axolotls_
> 
> The FBH tends to be more active in the real world than on the net.
> 
> Gordon Glasson
> FBH Vice Chairman.


Thanks for your reply and the information contained within it Gordon.
Whilst I now understand some of what the FBH has done, I am having trouble understanding how such a ban would be enforced if it happened, would homes be searched for illegal amphibians?


----------



## Georgehill

Mirf said:


> Have you actually read any of this thread and the attached links, or is that too much to ask of your single brain cell?


Anyone can attach links and write bullshit. I am doing it now.

I want to see hard evidence that these guys actually do anything except SAY what they do.

If they are so great then they would have professional backing and a professional image. 

To be perfectly honest, I dont give two hoots about this whole thing. They dont effect anything I do or anything I want to do. Just can't believe that everyone takes them so seriously. Are they like the Exotics Gestapo or something?


----------



## tokay

George , i think its time for your medication and also pull your head out of your friggin arse. every post you make just makes you look even more idiotic than the one before. 
Read up on the FBH then post as all the crap your posting at present is rediculous...


----------



## Mirf

oscar96 said:


> What shows were stopped by Anti's the only one I know of is one that you lot stopped by ringing the council and telling them it was ilegal does that not make you the Anti's unless the shows join the FBH first?





tokay said:


> George , i think its time for your medication and also pull your head out of your friggin arse. every post you make just makes you look even more idiotic than the one before.
> Read up on the FBH then post as all the crap your posting at present is rediculous...


Get the feeling it's this idiots brother?:hmm:


----------



## penfold

Georgehill said:


> Anyone can attach links and write bullshit. I am doing it now.
> 
> I want to see hard evidence that these guys actually do anything except SAY what they do.
> 
> If they are so great then they would have professional backing and a professional image.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I dont give two hoots about this whole thing. They dont effect anything I do or anything I want to do. Just can't believe that everyone takes them so seriously. Are they like the Exotics Gestapo or something?


you my friend are a person who I disagree with.


----------



## Pete Q

clairethorn said:


> Thanks for your reply and the information contained within it Gordon.
> Whilst I now understand some of what the FBH has done, I am having trouble understanding how such a ban would be enforced if it happened, would homes be searched for illegal amphibians?


Hi Claire
They would ban any export of these, bans on petshop and show sales, likely policed by the RSPCA and AR groups.
It is unlikely they could do anything about current home collections, but the above bans would likely result in these not being kept as pets anymore, would take a few years.


----------



## kato

Moderator here - Please no name calling else action will be taken and this Thread may be closed!!!!


----------



## penfold

penfold said:


> you my friend are a person who I disagree with.


 that is the funniest thing ive seen in ages thank you :2thumb::lol2:


----------



## jay-dee

Ive heard of the FBH before, as there has been a lot of comms between them and USARK. The impending ban corncerning the USA's non-indiginous (<---spelt wrong i think), has all rep orgs scared, if the Yanks pass the ban, then its only a matter of time before the dominos fall. The FBH have already been stock piling paperwork, scientific stuff and what ever else ready for "the brussels battle" to save our hobbies and livelihoods. The FBH have been pulling strings and helping our cause for years, keeping the morons (sorry, i meant anti's) off of our backs, and its only by playing the game their way that we survive. Unfortunately, marigolds have always been amongst us trying to destroy us from within, they try causing arguements over nothing, dissention amongst us, and laugh when we're at each others throat. The FBH does not phone councils to shut down events, they are non profit so it would not benefit them at all. They are just pointing out, and reminding us the law as it stands, so that "joe bloggs" breeder doesn't get his leo's confiscated for trading without a licence, and that organisors of such events don't end up in jail. Its the exact same principle as an illegal rave and a nightclub, the intelligent amongst you will grasp my point exactly. As for any bumbling fools that quote me, they just wont even warrant a retort from my keyboard, (climbs off soapbox) :whistling2:


----------



## Mirf

jay-dee said:


> Ive heard of the FBH before, as there has been a lot of comms between them and USARK. The impending ban corncerning the USA's non-indiginous (<---spelt wrong i think), has all rep orgs scared, if the Yanks pass the ban, then its only a matter of time before the dominos fall. The FBH have already been stock piling paperwork, scientific stuff and what ever else ready for "the brussels battle" to save our hobbies and livelihoods. The FBH have been pulling strings and helping our cause for years, keeping the morons (sorry, i meant anti's) off of our backs, and its only by playing the game their way that we survive. Unfortunately, marigolds have always been amongst us trying to destroy us from within, they try causing arguements over nothing, dissention amongst us, and laugh when we're at each others throat. The FBH does not phone councils to shut down events, they are non profit so it would not benefit them at all. They are just pointing out, and reminding us the law as it stands, so that "joe bloggs" breeder doesn't get his leo's confiscated for trading without a licence, and that organisors of such events don't end up in jail. Its the exact same principle as an illegal rave and a nightclub, the intelligent amongst you will grasp my point exactly. As for any bumbling fools that quote me, they just wont even warrant a retort from my keyboard, (climbs off soapbox) :whistling2:


Perfectly put!:notworthy:

Bugger I quoted you, am I in your bad books?


----------



## jay-dee

Mirf said:


> Perfectly put!:notworthy:
> 
> Bugger I quoted you, am I in your bad books?


 
:lol2: @ you mirf, im just sick of no-nothing retards. I would like (eventually) to get into burms, but if the anti's get their way there wont be any 
They need our help and support, not those small minded morons slating them (oops, back on the soapbox) :whistling2:


----------



## clairethorn

Pete Q said:


> Hi Claire
> They would ban any export of these, bans on petshop and show sales, likely policed by the RSPCA and AR groups.
> It is unlikely they could do anything about current home collections, but the above bans would likely result in these not being kept as pets anymore, would take a few years.


thanks for answering the question Pete


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## Natrix

Pete Q said:


> Hi Claire
> They would ban any export of these, bans on petshop and show sales, likely policed by the RSPCA and AR groups.
> It is unlikely they could do anything about current home collections, but the above bans would likely result in these not being kept as pets anymore, would take a few years.


All of the above plus you would need to register any animals you already owned and would not be allowed to breed from them or pass them on to other keepers (unwanted animals PTS).

The result would be no new keepers and a constantly dwindling number of existing keepers. When your last phib heads for the big pond in the sky you are no longer a phib keeper. It would take around seven to ten years to make the UK a captive phib free zone. 

Gordon Glasson
FBH VC


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## salukisue

*salukisue*

How on earth can you call yourself S W Exotics when you are hundreds of miles up North


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## Mirf

salukisue said:


> How on earth can you call yourself S W Exotics when you are hundreds of miles up North


Huh? :?


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## xxstaggyxx

salukisue said:


> How on earth can you call yourself S W Exotics when you are hundreds of miles up North


 
I was thinking that but didt want to say anything so im gald somone else said it


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## tonkaz0

xxstaggyxx said:


> I was thinking that but didt want to say anything so im gald somone else said it


 
Hi Mate, The first post in this thread is from SW exotics which are based in Gloucester/Bristol.


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## Mirf

Mirf said:


> Huh? :?





tonkaz0 said:


> Hi Mate, The first post in this thread is from SW exotics which are based in Gloucester/Bristol.


Hence my previous comment, what are they talking about? I am confuzzled....


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## tonkaz0

Mirf said:


> Hence my previous comment, what are they talking about? I am confuzzled....


 
Yea, just a bit of simple confusion thats all!, it happens all the time on here,
some threads go on for so long sometimes you lose the plot with them, 
Im on here a few times through the day getting my daily top up of confusionism ha ha, not that I need topping up that much :2thumb:.


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## Mirf

I'm usually confused enough _before_ I come on here:lol2:


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## gecko-guy

*Cant wait for the show*

Cant wait for the show, :flrt:
We need more shows accross England, 
So lets make 2010 and 2011 even more bigger shows.
Thanks to all the people that make it possible.

The size of - Earls Court and Olympia, Birmingham NEC, and any other massive venues would be amazing for shows in england.

Good luck evereyone at the shows this year and hope you all have a fantastic time and have fun, see you all there.


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## Zak

gecko-guy said:


> Cant wait for the show, :flrt:
> We need more shows accross England,
> So lets make 2010 and 2011 even more bigger shows.
> Thanks to all the people that make it possible.
> 
> The size of - Earls Court and Olympia, Birmingham NEC, and any other massive venues would be amazing for shows in england.
> 
> Good luck evereyone at the shows this year and hope you all have a fantastic time and have fun, see you all there.


Do you have any idea the cost of putting a show on in even a small venue? The smallest section of the SECC in Glasgow quoted me £8000 for a days rental, the NEC would be in the tens of thousands, no organiser has that sort of money. I think UK shows should concentrate more on quality and not quantity, quantity is when standards slip and it becomes more about money than the actual event itself. UK shows need to keep improving at the size they are before they even consider expanding into venues you suggested.


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## gecko-guy

Chill baby chill - Zak PMSL was a sugestion darling, look at ham shows luv, they are big and buitafull and full of qualitly like me ha ha kiss kiss, we want big shows and more of them hunny bunny, im sure there cost effective places just waiting for us to put on the shows, more more more baby blue, we love shows and we want more, whoop whoooop.
How about more show dates at Kempton, we could have 4 shows per year there, sorted and everyone happy, clap clap i is good LOL.
:flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt:




Zak said:


> Do you have any idea the cost of putting a show on in even a small venue? The smallest section of the SECC in Glasgow quoted me £8000 for a days rental, the NEC would be in the tens of thousands, no organiser has that sort of money. I think UK shows should concentrate more on quality and not quantity, quantity is when standards slip and it becomes more about money than the actual event itself. UK shows need to keep improving at the size they are before they even consider expanding into venues you suggested.


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## kato

:closed: gone way Off Topic.


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