# The RSPCA – just how disingenuous can they get?



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

I have just been asked to comment on the RSPCA campaign against the keeping of reptiles as pets, this was in relation to the Five Pledges the RSPCA made a year or so ago. Pledge 5 was to reduce the number of exotics kept as pets and increase their humane care. A few people commented on this at time.

I was asked to comment on the Trustees’ report and accounts 2012, which has recently been published. So a quick review was in order, on page pages 7 and 8 are the relevant pages to this issue: Pledge 5: To reduce the number of exotics kept as pets and increase their humane care.

The data they present in terms of live reptiles imported into the UK is completely misrepresented, what they show as imports to the UK include transhipments as well as imports destine for the UK. So the high figure in 2007 is nothing off the sort:

Domestic 7 
EU 1,382
*Import 168,910 *
Trans ship 290,575 
Total 460,630

And then they wonder why nobody believes a word they say, hardly surprising is it……!!


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## Indicus (May 3, 2009)

It looks like the farmers aren't too happy with rspca at the moment aswell

RSPCA under investigation for anti-cull campaign - 19/08/2013 - Farmers Weekly


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Then there is the approx. £54K per yr on snooping police files...

RSPCA accesses sensitive police files 124 times a month: Concerns raised over deal that allows charity to use documents in prosecutions it brings | Mail Online 

Really beginning to show their true colours now! :whistling2:


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The revelation they have been accessing police records does not come as a surprise to me. I asked a serving police officer about this recently and his response was “we often work with other agencies”….. I pointed out the RSPCA is not an agency, i.e. a government body, they are members of the public – he was unaware of this and _assumed_ they were an agency……!!

It has also been suggest that the RSPCA have been assessing DEFRA/AHVLA records, such as CITES imports, Article 10 Certificates, Bird Registration, etc. I wonder if the media would care to look into this as well…….?


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

Well surely as FBh you should be informing the media etc sir


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Indicus said:


> It looks like the farmers aren't too happy with rspca at the moment aswell


We certainly are not! Never are though :bash:


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## emmabee (Oct 29, 2010)

Whilst we are on the case, us horse lot are not happy with them either. So much so that now if there is a horse in distress other animal welfare groups are contacted such as the ILPH and the BHS.


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

I hear the dog fighting people are getting fed up with them too:whistling2:


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

As you pointed out Chris, many Police forces fail to realise that the RSPCA are civilians - with no more rights than any other member of the public. However, a number of Police forces actively protect employees of the RSPCA against complaints made to the Police concerning illegal actions by employees of the RSPCA. As examples, Norfolk refuse to investigate and prosecute an RSPCA employee in a case of Perjury, despite video evidence (RSPCA & private), Court transcript and an Independent witness : Lincolnshire Police refuse to investigate and charge an RSPCA employee for theft of cages. Norfolk Police recorded 831 complaints against RSPCA - and investigated none!

The various Police forces throughout the country have been consistently evasive on the matter of access to the Police National Computer - until a Freedom of Information request provided an answer from The Association of Chief Police Officers. It would seem that the actions of the RSPCA may well be unlawful (surprise, surprise!) and the matter has been referred to The Information Commissioner's Office.

The 'ordinary' individual can help by writing to their MP to complain about unlawful access to the PNC by the RSPCA.

The 'ordinary' individual can also help by requesting a statement from their Chief Constable regarding any agreement between the Police force and the RSPCA. The Website Whatdotheyknow is a useful site to request information under Freedom of Information Act!

Every single challenge to the actions of the RSPCA achieves a (small) step forward!

MJD


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

duffey1 said:


> As you pointed out Chris, many Police forces fail to realise that the RSPCA are civilians - with no more rights than any other member of the public. However, a number of Police forces actively protect employees of the RSPCA against complaints made to the Police concerning illegal actions by employees of the RSPCA. As examples, Norfolk refuse to investigate and prosecute an RSPCA employee in a case of Perjury, despite video evidence (RSPCA & private), Court transcript and an Independent witness : Lincolnshire Police refuse to investigate and charge an RSPCA employee for theft of cages. Norfolk Police recorded 831 complaints against RSPCA - and investigated none!
> 
> The various Police forces throughout the country have been consistently evasive on the matter of access to the Police National Computer - until a Freedom of Information request provided an answer from The Association of Chief Police Officers. It would seem that the actions of the RSPCA may well be unlawful (surprise, surprise!) and the matter has been referred to The Information Commissioner's Office.
> 
> ...


Things are changing, all be it slowly, and you are correct to suggest people should make formal complaints to all relevant authorities and this should include the Charity Commission. I would encourage everyone who has any ‘issues’ with the RSPCA to make a formal complaint, ultimately what is needed is an ombudsman to oversee the activities of the RSPCA – that is something that would absolutely terrify them, the thought of being accountable for their actions……!!


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> Things are changing, all be it slowly, and you are correct to suggest people should make formal complaints to all relevant authorities and this should include the Charity Commission. I would encourage everyone who has any ‘issues’ with the RSPCA to make a formal complaint, ultimately what is needed is an ombudsman to oversee the activities of the RSPCA – that is something that would absolutely terrify them, the thought of being accountable for their actions……!!


has the fbh put in a complaint at all


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

penfold said:


> has the fbh put in a complaint at all


We have and will continue to do so here appropriate.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

I used to want to join the RSCPA.
But, when I learned about some of the things they do just to win a case or get an animal, there is no way.

They have no authority over you and you do not have to do a word they say unless they have a court appointed warrant or police presence and if you aren't being violent and are home when they visit, they have no right to contact the police to force you into doing anything.

The fact that they've stopped helping with so many stray dogs is upsetting too, even with wildlife they only come out if you have the animal trapped or confined to one area so they don't have to bother doing it, we had a fox that had been hit by a car in and around our garden, we rang up and they said they wouldn't come and get him until we had him trapped and secure. The documentaries you see on animal planet with them being oh so helpful and nice, aren't what they're like all the time.

Unfortunately, people think they have this power so, they get away with so much :/


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

Yep they don't do as they make out and even when I've seen horses on the road.. They don't come to help.. So I'm not supporting them any more.:banghead:


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Some useful information and contact Websites :

Access to the PNC by the RSPCA
Exposed: RSPCA drills into cops' databases, harvests private info

Members of Parliament
Enables easy access to find your MP
Search (Find Your MP) - UK Parliament

What do they know
Useful Website to post Freedom of Information requests - NB the RSPCA are not bound by the Freedom of Information Act, but Police forces, The Information Commissioner's Office, Government departments and The Charity Commissioners are!
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/

The Information Commissioner's Office
The body responsible for 'overseeing' The Freedom of Information Act & The Data Protection Act.
Data Protection and Freedom of Information advice - ICrg.uk

The RSPCA do not have a Complaints procedure! And are not under the auspices of The Freedom of Information Act. They are, however, required by law to provide information they hold on an individual under Subject Access under The Data Protection Act. Interestingly Colin Vogel, a retired veterinary surgeon and Expert Witness found that papers sent to him under DPA showed that the RSPCA had actively tried to discredit him as an Expert Witness! 

Complaints can be made to Members of Parliament - suggested subjects include 
"Unlawful access to the Police National Computer by the RSPCA", 
'Failure of the RSPCA to meet the standards set by The Crown Prosecution Service for private prosecutions', 
failure of certain Police forces to investigate complaints regarding actions of RSPCA employees'
- in fact, any complaint can be raised. 

Police forces - FoI information can be requested via Whatdotheyknow: most Police forces have a Complaints procedure - but do not expect fast responses! Service Level Agreements (SLA's) between the Police force and the RSPCA can be requested! Also clarification of the grounds for co-operation with the RSPCA. 

Certain points to bear in mind (and use!) :-
The RSPCA are unique as a 'charity' and 'prosecuting body in that they have CRIMiNAL CONVICTIONS - R v RSPCA (1984) - Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice, plus at least two convictions under The Dangerous Wild Animals Act.
The RSPCA is a 'Charity' - they have no legal standing as an 'investigative body', but many Police forces mistakenly believe they have, and treat them as if they were Police officers - granting them full use of police facilities.
'Private prosecutions' by the RSPCA cost the taxpayer an estimated £50,000,000!

The more 'hassle' MP's, Police forces and other authorities receive by way of questions and complaints, the more they will question the ethics and morality of the RSPCA!

MJD


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The RSPCA _claim_ to have a complaints procedure, indeed they did once send me the protocol to review. However, the reality in my experience is any complaints are simply filed in the waste paper basket and not investigated. I have lodged complaints with both head office and regional offices over the conduct of Inspectors before but none have ever been investigated. I have just a cursory look on their website and could not see anything obvious where people could make a formal complaint about an Inspector? By contrast most police website offer the facility to make formal complaints……!!


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## cjd12345 (Nov 2, 2011)

I've contacted my MP to ask him what his views are on the RSPCA and exotic animal keeping. If I get anything useful back I'll share.


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## redbull23 (Oct 15, 2012)

I know it sounds like a mad/ out there idea but there should be a separate charity for exotics so the RSPCA could just stick to dogs etc that they know about at least that way the people helping exotics actually know what they're dealing with.


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