# Alpine Newt Breeding



## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a group of 6.4 Alpine newts _Ichthyosaura alpestris alpestris _.
They were put into hibernation on the 28th of September, and I will bring them out in January or February. To hibernate them I allow them to choose between a terrestrial and an aquatic setup, they are in the garage where the temp stays around 5'c this time of year. I plan to raise 25 eggs from each female, originally I planned to match them by colour but now I think I will just put them all together. So, what I plan to do here is document their progress and how the larvae develop. There won't be many updates really until they come out of hibernation but I thought I would start this now. Just for fun I will add some photos of them.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)




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## Kiwibird (Mar 27, 2014)

They are a very pretty species of newt! They are actually blue then? Not the lighting or camera?


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

They are really blue. The photo doesn't do them justice. They are increadibly bright especially in the spring. The females tend to be slightly more dull though.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

More photos


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Even more


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## Kiwibird (Mar 27, 2014)

How big are these newts? Either they are very small, or thats a HUGE chunk of bloodworms:gasp:


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

The males are all about 7/8cm and the females are about 12cm. That was a large cube of bloodworms.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just a quick update. The newts are still hibernating and will be untill new year. I'm getting a nice big 100 litre tank for them for when they are brought back inside. I may bring them inside in groups over a few months or I may just bring them in all together, I still haven't decided.

Stuart


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

My alpine newts that are kept in the coolest room of the house year round are getting ready to breed now. Males are taking on breeding dress, females are getting plump, and the tail fanning started a few days back


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Nice, what subspecies do you keep? Also, do you have any photos you could post? I would love to see the colours yours exhibit. Were you by any chance helping me with daphnia culturing over on caudata? 

Stuart


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

I keep apaunus. I have photos on my pc but its in need of repair at present. I am posting this using my phone. There may be photos of my alpines on either my profile here on rfuk or my profile on.caudata.org. 
Yes i have posted on your daphnia breeding thread on caudata.org


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Just looked and there are some very old pics on both profiles. The better pic is on my caudata.org one though. I do have more up to date ones on my pc so will try get that sorted and post on here


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ok, I'll have a look. Thanks for your help and advice, it's really going to help come spring.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

morg said:


> Just looked and there are some very old pics on both profiles. The better pic is on my caudata.org one though. I do have more up to date ones on my pc so will try get that sorted and post on here


Thanks, I just looked on your RFUK profile and there are a couple of photos. The newts look really blue, are they like that all year or just when breeding?

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I noticed on your caudata profile that there are pictures of an albino larvae or neotene, and I was wondering what it was? My initial thoughts were some species of _Triturus_. I was thinking _T. Cristatus_? 

Stuart


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Once the males reach breeding age and develop the colours they will keep them but they are much more vivid and bright each breeding season.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

morg said:


> Once the males reach breeding age and develop the colours they will keep them but they are much more vivid and bright each breeding season.


That's what I thought. I have never bred them before but the males are easily distinguished from females.

Stuart


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Stupot1610 said:


> I noticed on your caudata profile that there are pictures of an albino larvae or neotene, and I was wondering what it was? My initial thoughts were some species of _Triturus_. I was thinking _T. Cristatus_?
> 
> Stuart



Yes they are Triturus cristatus


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I'll try get some photos of them hibernating on soon.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hibernating newts


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just to say, I'll be selling surplus alpine newt eggs when they are laid. PM me for details, if you want to be put on the waiting list or if you have any questions.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

So, I got fed up of having an empty tank and being my usual impatient self I have brought the newts back inside. So obviously they aren't hibernating anymore, they've had just short of two months hibernation so they should breed easily. All the males have been courting the females but they haven't got their full breeding colours yet, but I have noticed that they have lightened up a bit. I'm not sure when they'll lay eggs but I would think within a month or so. Their current temperature is roughly 17'c which is up about 10'c from the garage so this should encourage breeding. 
I have a couple of questions:
-how long does it take for breeding colours to develop once they are taken out of hibernation?
-how long after courtship starts do eggs begin to be laid?

Stuart








The bottom two are videos.


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

My own live outside in a shed with clear roof so they don't actually hibernate just slow right down, They start laying eggs quite soon after they mate, I had thousands of eggs when the adults were only 18 months old 2 years ago. 
I raised 50 and let the parents deal with the rest.
I have just sold 19 of the resulting offspring now 2 yr old and in breeding condition, to a petshop for £1 each just to give me more space, so be careful what you wish for stupot1610


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

How many females did you have to get so many eggs? Did any of the ones left with the parents survive?

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> How many females did you have to get so many eggs? Did any of the ones left with the parents survive?
> 
> Stuart


 Sorry stupot I meant hundreds of eggs I have just realised I said thousands, 3 females 1 male and no non of them survived with the parents, though as they are so small and need small food the chance of them living OK with the parents is very remote. 

As they grew I suppose the parents just looked on them as food. I didn't even bother to take eggs out last year the male had died but as eggs were laid I assume he mated first. 

on a different subject my Spanish ribbed newts lay at least 4 times a year and at present the last lot of eggs are still in with the parents, I haven't bothered to separate them for 2 years now, as they are a lot slower to grow up than Alpines I find, possibly due to cooler conditions year round.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

How did you go about raising the larvae? and what time of year do yours normally lay eggs?

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

That's also interesting that the larvae with the adults did not survive. Do you think that was to do with food supply more than the adults eating them? I ask because when I observed them in the wild the pond was full of adults but had five or six times as many well advanced larvae.

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> That's also interesting that the larvae with the adults did not survive. Do you think that was to do with food supply more than the adults eating them? I ask because when I observed them in the wild the pond was full of adults but had five or six times as many well advanced larvae.
> 
> Stuart


Mine was probably a mix of both, in the wild they have a continual food supply in captivity they can only eat what is put in for them. 
I fed the larvae on Newly hatched brine shrimp from eggs I bought on Ebay which is how I started the parents, (I bought the original newts as eggs on a newt forum)
Then moved on to mosquito larva and Daphne that I collected from water butts, and cattle troughs. -One of the signs of being a keeper of amphibs is the delight at seeing your water butts teaming with life.- Then I used small earth worms, cut into pieces frozen bloodworm was also devoured, and helped give them their orange bellies.

The newts started to court in about mid march and laid mid April, they then took what seamed for ever to hatch, but they do grow very fast. They take a lot of looking after, water changes feeding etc, and as they grow they fight a lot so you have to be able to separate them out into smaller groups with lots of cover or the smaller ones are either eaten or loose legs, which they can regrow, but it's better if they don't have too.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ok, thanks. How long is it before the larvae start accepting dead food adapter hatching? And also how long did egg laying last?

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

They lay for quite awhile, after I pulled the eggs I wanted I just let them get on with it, so i didn't pay to much attention.

They took frozen food as soon as they had rear legs from memory as I had about 50 in one tank, it could be they started sooner, but that is when I noticed they ate the frozen blood worm, they didn't seam to eat the frozen daphnea and seamed a bit hit and miss with frozen mossie larvae. They do it all by smell rather than movement so it is an easy way to get them to bulk up, then chopped worm for all the goodness they provide. I'm lucky as I'm a professional gardener so i can collect free food when ever I have a few moments.

I really should keep records, rather than just trying to remember things. 
I will do that with my Fire Belly toads if I get them to breed next spring.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Do you know how many weeks it took of for the back legs to grow?

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> Do you know how many weeks it took of for the back legs to grow?
> 
> Stuart


Sorry Stuart as I said I didn't keep written records, as I didn't think any one would be interested, I think at about 6 weeks, but don't hold me to that. How are yours doing now?
Dean


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

james dean said:


> Sorry Stuart as I said I didn't keep written records, as I didn't think any one would be interested, I think at about 6 weeks, but don't hold me to that. How are yours doing now?
> Dean


 They're doing good, the males are still courting the females but as far as i know they haven't mated yet. I think it'll probably be about a month before there are any eggs.

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> They're doing good, the males are still courting the females but as far as i know they haven't mated yet. I think it'll probably be about a month before there are any eggs.
> 
> Stuart


The funny thing about mine is they didn't wrap the eggs in the leaves of the water plants, they just laid them along the stems and over the leaves, they are a pinky, creamy, orange colour if that makes any sense. Good luck and at least you can keep the records I didn't..................


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Do you know when the females start to become interested in the males? Because at the moment the females watch the males tail fanning but that's about it? 

Stuart


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

From your videos the females look quite thin for egg laying, feed them up with plenty of earthworms. You will see that they get very rotund when they are full of eggs.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

The females have got a lot more round over the last few days, so fingers crossed.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

the female newts are now getting very large.

Stuart


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Lovely read dude,thanks for this:2thumb: All the luck in the world kiddo. Here's a question guys more curiosity really.

Do you think vit A might be as important to caudates, as it very much appears to be for darts? 

Ahh, the best of luck Stuart and keep the pics coming,such a useful ref these threads,bloody interesting too:mf_dribble::lol2:

Stu


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

soundstounite said:


> Lovely read dude,thanks for this:2thumb: All the luck in the world kiddo. Here's a question guys more curiosity really.
> 
> Do you think vit A might be as important to caudates, as it very much appears to be for darts?
> 
> ...


I honesty don't know the importance vitamin A. My newts are fed on almost nothing but earthworms, as these are said to contain all vitamins and minerals required by the animals.

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> the female newts are now getting very large.
> 
> Stuart


Keep them well fed Stuart, as they must use a lot of energy to produce the eggs. It's going to be hard going to fee the tads at this time of year, I hope you have plenty of small foodstuff in the early days at least.
They grow quite fast, so if you get some early eggs and they are fertile, start them off separately, and keep any others really cool, and after a few weeks, you could try and use the later eggs or larvae to feed the larger tads.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm going to buy some brine shrimp eggs and a grindal worm culture. I'm also going to buy in some daphnia once they are a couple of weeks old. I might put the eggs out in the garage to slow development until February when it'll be easier to culture daphnia. I'll also keep some inside but only about 25/30 to start with. I think because they lay eggs for quite a while I'll raise some earlier eggs and some later eggs in smallish groups. I think it'll be a month or so before there are any eggs anyway. That's a good idea with the larvae as food for other larvae, I'll maybe give it a go to see how it turns out. I've actually read that when juvenile axolotls eat other axolotls they develop different characteristics to the others, I wonder if it's the same with newts? I suppose there's only one way to find out. You said feed the females a lot, I feed the group worms and bloodworms every other day in quite high quantities, is this ok? Or should I feed the females more than this?

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I added some plants from my pond the other day, and tonight when I was watching the newts I noticed that there were hundreds of tiny insects swimming around. This got me thinking, another member of the forum said they knew someone that raised larvae in a tank with just pond weed. So, what I was thinking is, I could start the larvae off on these tiny foods and then after maybe a week or so I could move them on to larger foods like daphnia and grindal worms. Does this sound like it would work? I had success with a similar method when I was raising H.orientalis earlier in the year, I added plants from existing tanks and 80 larvae lived off this until they grew all their legs. I would obviously have some brine shrimp eggs just in case this didn't work.

Stuart


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

If you get some Liquifry N02 this will feed them as soon as they hatch.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the advice.

Stuart


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I just went and had a look at the newts and I noticed that the males are beginning to look very colourful. I'll try and put up some pictures tomorrow.

Stuart


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Stupot1610 said:


> I added some plants from my pond the other day, and tonight when I was watching the newts I noticed that there were hundreds of tiny insects swimming around. This got me thinking, another member of the forum said they knew someone that raised larvae in a tank with just pond weed. So, what I was thinking is, I could start the larvae off on these tiny foods and then after maybe a week or so I could move them on to larger foods like daphnia and grindal worms. Does this sound like it would work? I had success with a similar method when I was raising H.orientalis earlier in the year, I added plants from existing tanks and 80 larvae lived off this until they grew all their legs. I would obviously have some brine shrimp eggs just in case this didn't work.
> 
> Stuart


If they are small round insects the newts will love them , I get mine out of a water trough in a sheep field as i'm worried about Rana virus in our pond, we have had it in the past but no dead frogs for a few years now thankfully. 

They wont touch water cyclops though which swim in a jerkey fashion and often cling to the glass fronts of tanks, usually with two egg pouches either side of them -You may need a magnifying glass if your over 50:lol2: 
A very fine aquarium net should net you plenty of them at a single sweep if they are in your pond.


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## creepycrawlies (Dec 2, 2014)

My newts live in an outdoor vivarium. as of last night they are still awake and wandering around. Alpines dont mind the cold, in the past I have observed them eating under ice!

I think the most important factor is light. Slowly increase the daylight and that should stimulate them along with the temperature and extra food.

I agree about feeding the young. if I were you I would be concentrating on growing food for them now. get some big buckets, place in a warm room with UV lights over them. Let the water turn green (add some fertiliser high in nitrates) then add daphnia to get cultures going.

Like wise with the pond life. take weed inside now and let the pond life build up in the bucket under UV light. You can feed them on Koi pellets actually.

I have reared larvae of other species in winter using micro worms as a starter food. They did ok.... It is best to wait until your ponds have come back to life in spring though as they really thrive on pond life.

I take a net once a week and trawl the bottom of the pond, taking rotten leaves and mud with me. full of microscopic goodies  

Good luck with them


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been ill since the weekend and I haven't had the energy to do anything. Thanks for the advice, I think Im going to put them back out to hibernate until February simply because it'll be a lot easier to raise the larvae. 

Stuart


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