# bearded dragons



## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Hi everyone could anyone tell if this setup is anygood for 1 bearded dragon ?
The Bearded Dragon Vivarium Habitat Kit- Limited Special Offer - Reptile Starter Kits - £229.00 - Reptile Vivariums & Habitats - The Pet Express

everyone says 4ft+2ft+2ft but vivexotic dont make that size vivarium and ive been up all night on the internet trying to find one that size.

Atb Ian


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

That kit is not very good, especially for its price. 

Firstly, the viv, the one in the kit is basically a 4x1.5x1.5, you want that extra .5 of a foot in height and depth believe me, the height is necessary to have an elevated basking area and maintain a safe distance between the bulb and BD. As you said you want a minimum of 4x2x2. Try the classifieds on here or contact a viv builder as they'll be able to sort one out. I'd recommend Volly, he's on this forum and does great work, I can personally recommend his vivariums. here is a thread of his stating £65-£90 for a 4x2x2 depending on whether there are any offers going. Best off ringing him. 

Secondly, the uv, that kit has two bulbs which of course means two to replace every 6months. Buy the Arcadia T5 12%. You want this, the 3ft version for a 4ft viv. Mount it on the roof behind the front plinth so its out of sight. This kit is everything you want/need, bulb, reflector, ballast. Trust me you want this, the T5 is revolutionary and much better than anything else available, I can again vouch for this personally. It is then the single bulb you need to replace and they only need replacing every 12 months as apposed to 6 for every other bulb. 

Then all you need is a ceramic bulb holder and heat resistant cable from here, a normal 60w household reflective spot bulb or halogen from tesco, b&q, wickes, etc, etc. I'd also get a metal lamp reflector such as this.

To control the heat output you need a DIMMING thermostat, I can recommend the habistat dimming thermostat although there are new ones coming out very soon that look impressive from habistat, microclimate and iSTAT but these will probably be unnecessary for your needs. habistat dimming stat.

you need digital thermometers, at least 2, I'd recommend 3 and again get these from eBay, like this for example. 

Finally substrate and decor, research for a substrate of your choice. I'd steer clear of any loose substrates until the BD is older, a good aim on live food, you can be sure he/she will be fine on it and you know your temps and husbandry are spot on. I would recommend using tiles, cut them to fit in the floor and either grout them in or scatter a little play sand (argos) in between the grooves.

That should do you. You'll probably end up spending around the same as the kit you linked but you will have a much better complete kit. That one above doesn't include a necessary thermostat and has inferior uv and viv size.


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## Ratamahata (Oct 16, 2012)

It's great advice as always from tom.

I have also contacted Volly about vivs and he has great prices.

Just wish I had come here before I purchased my kit from a supplier. Would have saved loads


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Cheers for the advise Tom
ive been and ordered a 4x2x2 viv from a local reptile shop..

as for the t5 i didnt think this was new technology im sure i used t5 on my marine tank quite a few years ago or am i missing something out ? 

the digital thermometers u linked i already use to watch the heat from bulbs that i use on my mantis shelving 

ive gone for a ceramic heat system for the beardie and somesort of controler for a day and night time heat,controlled by a Lucky Reptile Thermo Control Pro II Digital Thermostat.

as im using that would you also use a spot lamp as a basking area?

sorry for all the questions


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

That sounds good except for the ceramic. BD's fair better with a light source as they associate the light with heat and shade with cool, helps with their thermo regulation. You could of course wire in a secondary bulb along side the ceramic but its just pointless and would most probably be overkill, they would both be on very dim or your viv would overheat. The heat source only needs to be on at day time so buy a light emitting bulb not a ceramic. If you did what you are contemplating then you will use more electricity, you will not have a beam of light associated with your basking spot, you increase the chance of your vivarium over heating or something serious occuring, I wouldn't recommendhaving any light/heat source in a viv unstatted too so that's potentially another £40.

It's lost on me why people do this. Why pay more for an inferior setup?


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

IanC said:


> Cheers for the advise Tom
> ive been and ordered a 4x2x2 viv from a local reptile shop..
> 
> *as for the t5 i didnt think this was new technology im sure i used t5 on my marine tank quite a few years ago or am i missing something out ? *
> ...



Arcadia T5 UV has only been out for just over a year (or two) and its not the fittings that are new, its the UV tubes. They are the only ones on the market in t5 size.

The are also the difference between T8 lighting and T5 lighting on a marine tank. Same difference in a viv. Which as a marine keeper you'd know makes a huge difference in fish behaviour etc.


.


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

nicnet said:


> Arcadia T5 UV has only been out for just over a year (or two) and its not the fittings that are new, its the UV tubes. They are the only ones on the market in t5 size.
> 
> The are also the difference between T8 lighting and T5 lighting on a marine tank. Same difference in a viv. Which as a marine keeper you'd know makes a huge difference in fish behaviour etc.
> 
> ...


I never said i used Arcadia t5 on my marines but it deffo was t5 and they were rather expensive systems not just the bulbs in the day just can't remember who made them now and was more than a couple of years ago.

Tom

as for the heating system for the beardie i havnt brought it yet so it could change that was what the guy in the reptile place was suggesting..
i will have to re think the heating system then again...
you get so many conflicting stories....

thats why i soined this forum to get sound advise and not waste the money as things are tight 

Atb Ian


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

IanC said:


> I never said i used Arcadia t5 on my marines but it deffo was t5 and they were rather expensive systems not just the bulbs in the day just can't remember who made them now and was more than a couple of years ago.
> 
> Tom
> 
> ...


Brilliant that you haven't bought it. Trust me you don't want or need a ceramic, light emitting source all the way and everyone will back me up on that. You'll be surprised how little some of the staff at these reptile stores actually know, we've all heard terrible suggestions and advice from so called reptile stores. Stick with the majority of here and you will do well! 

:2thumb:


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Tom

Would a 60w spotlight bulb really heat a 4x2x2 viv upto the required temp ? i guess thats why you use a reflector like the one u linked before.
do i get the small reflector ?...
to be honest i was a bit surprised when the i asked where was the best place to put the thermostat probe and his answer was in the middle of the viv..

Ive just looked at your viv build thats some build fella well done.. i see you have two spot lamps in your viv and alot of islulation thats why i asked if you was sure about a 60w spot bulb in a 4x2x2

cheers for all your help fella


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

IanC said:


> Tom
> 
> Would a 60w spotlight bulb really heat a 4x2x2 viv upto the required temp ? i guess thats why you use a reflector like the one u linked before.
> do i get the small reflector ?...
> ...



Actually thats not far wrong. You don't want the stat near the hot side as its there to keep your cool side protected and not to set your temps by.


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Nicnet

i see what u mean about the Arcadia t5uv bulb as marine bulbs are diffrent..i thought all Arcadia had done was use the marine bulb and say its good for reptiles 

i used t5 on the marines because they were considered best at the time or metal halide.

yeah i know the guy was pretty close with his suggestion on the probe....
but was concerned when he suggested a 250w ceramic to go with it as they radiate heat what temp would the basking spot underneath it got to ?

now im just concerned if a single 60 w spot bulb would be big enough or maybe get two 60w spot bulbs and set them at diffrent heights so the Beardie could choose which one to sit under ?

i know its alot of questions im asking ...
but i know most reptile shops will sell u a green iguana and a 3ftx18inchx18inch viv to go with it thats why im seeking as much knowledge before i get my beardie as id like it to have the best possible home i can give it.

ive brought a book dunno if it any good called bearded dragons and written by Lance Jepson?

cheers again guys


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Cheers mate. : victory: A 60w will be suffice I'm sure, if your worried get either a similar wattage halogen (as they're slightly hotter) or a slightly higher wattage bulb as well, they're only a few quid so handy to have a few as spares anyway. You don't want two heat sources, 1 is ample in a viv of this size and two will only mean your viv will either overheat or the bulbs will be constantly dimmed by the stat and will give off little in the way of light. You just want the 1 trust me. I could have got away with one heat source in mine and sometimes wish I had done just this, it works well temp wise and he is basking properly but they are fairly dimmed with there being two. They still give off a good amount of light and create a lighted basking area but I'd prefer it to be brighter still, I'm thinking of lower wattage but it would mean converting or replacing the bulb holders for ses bulbs as I can't find any es ones with a low enough wattage. :bash: It's not a major issue but It'll niggle away at me so ill have to sort it at some point!


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

IanC said:


> Nicnet
> 
> i see what u mean about the Arcadia t5uv bulb as marine bulbs are diffrent..i thought all Arcadia had done was use the marine bulb and say its good for reptiles
> 
> ...



All my 4ft's are currently running on 40W standard reflectives, they are in a stack though so they do radiate heat to each other a bit.
I think only the bottom one is on a 60W. hmm I need to check that lol


As Tom said, get in some spares as you will be changing bulbs a bit in the summer possibly.

You control your basking temp by both hight and heat source, (as tom found out to his detriment lol) and making a solid immovable basking spot can make it hard work to get your temps spot on. if you basking spot is a tad warm but your other temps are fine, you simply drop your basking spot a bit.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

nicnet said:


> All my 4ft's are currently running on 40W standard reflectives, they are in a stack though so they do radiate heat to each other a bit.
> I think only the bottom one is on a 60W. hmm I need to check that lol
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah it has made it difficult getting everything quite right and as you now know I'm still not happy, in practise its fine but I'm a little OCD and it annoys me that the bulbs aren't brighter. However, I'm also not one to bow down, accept defeat and run just the one bulb so I'm sticking at it! :lol2: He's happy so that's the important thing, my needs and brighter bulbs can wait!


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

tomcannon said:


> Yeah it has made it difficult getting everything quite right and as you now know I'm still not happy, in practise its fine but I'm a little OCD and it annoys me that the bulbs aren't brighter. However, I'm also not one to bow down, accept defeat and run just the one bulb so I'm sticking at it! :lol2: He's happy so that's the important thing, my needs and brighter bulbs can wait!



lol I also know your OH will skin you alive if you start a rebuild on that one....Not sure her kitchen survived the first build.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

nicnet said:


> lol I also know your OH will skin you alive if you start a rebuild on that one....Not sure her kitchen survived the first build.


This is true! Thankfully it won't come to that, the worst that would happen is I either leave it as it is, perfect temps but slightly dimmed bulbs or run on one bulb. I think the lower wattage ses bulbs would do the trick anyone though as combined they equal about one bulb, I just don't know it they reach high enough temps to get each basking spot hot enough, ambient shouldn't be an issue. Oh, gotta love the ongoing complex of a viv build!

Luckily the kitchen saw no action on this work, I did all this at the shed, plenty of tools and space there. Not sure it would have fit in the kitchen, barely fits in the house!


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

cheers again for the advise guys

have a good xmas and hopefully mine will be all up and running just after :2thumb:

Atb Ian


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Hi Tom

i pick up my 4x2x2 viv later today  along with the t5 lighting system except for the reflector....shop never ordered it in....can i use an ordinary reflector from arcadia or does it have to be t5 specific ?

ive also got these that came from swell reptiles today 
reflector sets 
in small going to have to design a chain to hook it up...

and
Swell Ceramic Lamp Holder

plus
Habistat High Range Dimmer Thermostat
where should i place the probe for this in the viv ?

i have plenty of digital thermometers but will place one in hot end one in cool end and one near to the basking spot that i can get

also can u think of anything else i will need,im going for a lino floor for now as i want to get a youngish Beardie...

do i need a water bowl or just a feeding bowl ?

what disinfectant do you reccomend ?

sorry for more questions

Atb Ian


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## Ratamahata (Oct 16, 2012)

F10 all the way for reptile disinfecting.

And please please please use swell for as much as you can, I have found them to be a little cheaper than SPS.


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## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> Brilliant that you haven't bought it. Trust me you don't want or need a ceramic, light emitting source all the way and everyone will back me up on that. You'll be surprised how little some of the staff at these reptile stores actually know, we've all heard terrible suggestions and advice from so called reptile stores. Stick with the majority of here and you will do well!
> 
> :2thumb:


yeah i agree with tom, when i got my beardie and set up he came with a ceramic heater and a heat mat i took both out taking on advice from tom and other members and fitted a 60w spot light for his basking area and everything is spot on now

and im building my own 4x2x2 viv for him now he came with a 4x1.5x1,5 and its just to small for him im my oppinion he cant move about as he should, the new viv has loads of floor space for him.


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

IanC said:


> Hi everyone could anyone tell if this setup is anygood for 1 bearded dragon ?
> The Bearded Dragon Vivarium Habitat Kit- Limited Special Offer - Reptile Starter Kits - £229.00 - Reptile Vivariums & Habitats - The Pet Express
> 
> everyone says 4ft+2ft+2ft but vivexotic dont make that size vivarium and ive been up all night on the internet trying to find one that size.
> ...


You haven't looked very hard. You need a Vivexotic EX48.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

IanC said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> i pick up my 4x2x2 viv later today  along with the t5 lighting system except for the reflector....shop never ordered it in....can i use an ordinary reflector from arcadia or does it have to be t5 specific ?
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure any reflector will work for now as long as it is fitted correctly. Regarding where to place the probe there isn't really one answer, people put it in different places to suit them. Take a look at this thread. It covers probe placement and has different opinions on where to place it, you can then make your choice. I recommended you bought the high range stat so that it can be placed right under the basking lamp if you so wish. 

Have two bowls at least to start with. 1 food, 1 water. Some BD will happy bathe/drink their water, some will steer clear and its totally pointless. Observe your BD for a while (not a week, a couple of months at least) to see if it gets used. If it doesn't it may be a better idea to remove it and just bathe more often. This is again your decision but I'd say it depends on each dragon. 

I agree with the f10 disinfectant. It's really good and will last for ages. 

Think I've covered everything there :2thumb:


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

The new T5 lighting tubes are alot thinner, you may find that a normal reflector will have clips that are too big for the bulb.


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

geckograham said:


> You haven't looked very hard. You need a Vivexotic EX48.


Oh i have looked very hard yes theres a few stores that say they have them online and when rung havnt got any..
the vivexotic ex 48 has been discontinued its not even on vivexotic website which is run by Hagen..

Vivexotic Tobacco Walnut EX48 Vivarium 1220x610x525mm for only £90.77 Reptile Centre

also if you look at many of the new 48 vivs from vivexotic many are 434mm high which is well below the 2ft needed just click the link above and try there alternative suggestion your see what i mean.....

so saying i need a vivexotic ex48 viv is like trying to find rocking horse @hit :lol2:

but cheers anyway 

Atb Ian


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Took a trip to surrey pet supplies (quite a good shop) for a proper t5-reflector
whilst there brought a feeding bowl and water bowl and one hide.
and also got some nutrobal calcium balancer and vitamins
and a cricket rock.

Also the arcadia t5-controller the shop sold me when i got my viv from is for 2 t5-bulbs
can i just use it as single as that's what i wanted but aint going to argue if i can run two bulbs later maybe for another viv........

so i have most things now except the f10,substrate but as i said im going to use lino for awhile then maybe put some proper tiles in.
also need to get something for basking spot i was thinking something along the lines of old bamboo roots well i think it was what they were.
and obviously a bearded dragon.
do you know of any good breaders around nth london/herts/bucks bedfordshire area for the beardie ?

is there anything else you think i will need ?

cheers Ian


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

anything else as ive built the viv up and gettin some other bits tomoz at
the reptile shop like basking branch or root..
do i need other stuff than nutrabol ?

also need to find a breeder in southeast or nth london ?

Cheers Ian


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

IanC said:


> anything else as ive built the viv up and gettin some other bits tomoz at
> the reptile shop like basking branch or root..
> do i need other stuff than nutrabol ?
> 
> ...


If you haven't already nought supplements you're best off purchasing repashy calcium plus. It's all in one and is an up to date product.


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Cheers Tom

i had already brought the nutrabol but will look out for the repashy calcium plus for next time

still havnt decided on where to place the thermostat probe i was
thinking maybe just off middle closer to hot end about 3 inches off the floor ? does that sound ok ?

also the spot lamp and holder how far from the hot side of the viv should it be i was thinking of leaving a few inches from the side and slightly off center towards the back ?

sorry i keep asking questions but want to get it right as possible

many thanks Ian


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

That sounds fine for the probe but I don't think you can really choose a spot and stick with it, you may find yourself moving it as you try to adjust the basking temp. And your bulb placement sounds fine too, I'd say 5"ish from the hot side. : victory:


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks again Tom

for your replies and patience on my questions. 
its better being safe and asking questions,
than getting the Viv completely wrong and having a poorley
bearded dragon or an upset one.

Cheers Ian


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## IanC (Dec 15, 2012)

Just a quick update

ive set the viv up and indeed a 60w lamp was all that was needed to get temps up to right place.
and have purchased a 4 month old Male Bloodred x Citrus Leatherback bearded dragon which has been named Google lol which i got from a member on this forum,he a stunning dragon.
had him a couple of days and he seems to be doing well eating greens (rocket mix from waitrose) and crickets and locusts and morio an meal worms....
ive put a water bowl in but he doesnt seem intrested in it.

dont it stink when they poo lol

id like to thank both Tom and Matt the dragon breeder for all the advise they have given me.

cheers Guys

Atb Ian

p.s may get another one later in the year (dragon) and a another viv


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Pics or it didn't happen!!! :lol2:


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