# axolotle sexing?????



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

was looking into getting axolotles but idealy want 2 famales and 1 male but how do you sex them????


----------



## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

As adults females tend to have broader heads, are plumper and males will have a more swolen cloaca especially when in breeding condition.


----------



## bikertj1981 (May 18, 2008)

*axolotl sexing*

Once they are mature with grey finger tips males have large bulges at the base of their tail where as females don't.

Hope this helps.


----------



## stevemet (Dec 29, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> was looking into getting axolotles but idealy want 2 famales and 1 male but how do you sex them????


....dim the lights...bottle of wine...the usual way


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

yh that does help thanks guys : victory:


----------



## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

I was able to tell them apart from quite an early age by the bulge under the tail :flrt:


----------



## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

stevemet said:


> ....dim the lights...bottle of wine...the usual way


your lady is easily pleased :no1::lol2:

New Handbag,matching shoes,new frog,massage,3 bottles of vodka,dinner,a film then dim the lights.....................


----------



## ducky (Sep 25, 2010)

yes yes like they all said big bulge under tail if male, but please corect me if i'm wrong are you putting them in together thats ok but needs big tank but it is good that you are not putting two males in eles you'd have a real blood bath well a tank of blood really





mcdougle said:


> was looking into getting axolotles but idealy want 2 famales and 1 male but how do you sex them????


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

ducky said:


> it is good that you are not putting two males in eles you'd have a real blood bath well a tank of blood really


No, this is incorrect axolotls are not territorial and the males do not fight. Axolotls will eat smaller tank mates, take chunks and limbs off each other but they are generally very tolerant of others, with injuries mainly down to one mistaking a tank mate for food as it wanders past. Two males in a tank do not cause a "blood bath".


----------



## stevemet (Dec 29, 2011)

TIMOTHY AND MATILDA said:


> your lady is easily pleased :no1::lol2:
> 
> New Handbag,matching shoes,new frog,massage,3 bottles of vodka,dinner,a film then dim the lights.....................


...... and asleep in 30 seconds


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

stevemet said:


> ....dim the lights...bottle of wine...the usual way





TIMOTHY AND MATILDA said:


> your lady is easily pleased :no1::lol2:
> 
> New Handbag,matching shoes,new frog,massage,3 bottles of vodka,dinner,a film then dim the lights.....................





stevemet said:


> ...... and asleep in 30 seconds


No wonder I'm gay- it's *so* much less complicated...
...or expensive! :lol2:



ianxxx said:


> No, this is incorrect axolotls are not territorial and the males do not fight. Axolotls will eat smaller tank mates, take chunks and limbs off each other but they are generally very tolerant of others, with injuries mainly down to one mistaking a tank mate for food as it wanders past. Two males in a tank do not cause a "blood bath".


This comes up a lot- recently on an (incorrect) FBT care sheet. I wonder if people are applying the principles learned in other herptiles (a lot of lizards, for example) to 'phibs- which are on the whole (although not exclusively) more tolerent of mixed sexes.


----------



## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

stevemet said:


> ...... and asleep in 30 seconds


Not good,perhaps do something to keep her awake :2thumb::2thumb::lol2::flrt:


----------



## stevemet (Dec 29, 2011)

TIMOTHY AND MATILDA said:


> Not good,perhaps do something to keep her awake :2thumb::2thumb::lol2::flrt:


no it would be me asleep after all that


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ducky said:


> yes yes like they all said big bulge under tail if male, but please corect me if i'm wrong are you putting them in together thats ok but needs big tank but it is good that you are not putting two males in eles you'd have a real blood bath well a tank of blood really





ianxxx said:


> No, this is incorrect axolotls are not territorial and the males do not fight. Axolotls will eat smaller tank mates, take chunks and limbs off each other but they are generally very tolerant of others, with injuries mainly down to one mistaking a tank mate for food as it wanders past. Two males in a tank do not cause a "blood bath".


 
yh all 3 together but the tank is 38x15x18 so it should be plenty big enough for 3 when its all planted up and has hides and all that


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

think you`ll need a bigger tank for 3?


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> think you`ll need a bigger tank for 3?


really why? they dont get that big do they? eh people have also said dont keep fish with them because they'll damage their gills what about cat fish???


----------



## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

I had 2 in a 3ft tank and then when I went to get a 3rd we moved them into a 4ft
If they do not have enough space one can attack another,this happened to me 
The injury my male got from a female was so severe that nothing could have been done to save him,he had a huge hole in his side,I was gutted,my adults grew to just over 20cm.The injury was so bad that photo bucket removed the photo,it was truly horible


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

TIMOTHY AND MATILDA said:


> I had 2 in a 3ft tank and then when I went to get a 3rd we moved them into a 4ft
> If they do not have enough space one can attack another,this happened to me
> The injury my male got from a female was so severe that nothing could have been done to save him,he had a huge hole in his side,I was gutted,my adults grew to just over 20cm.The injury was so bad that photo bucket removed the photo,it was truly horible


 
down at pet peoject in plymouth where i live they have a 2ft tank on the desk with about 5 in together and they haven't had any injurys given they are only like 4-5 inchers but a guy i know has a two ft tank with 2 adults and they'v evan bred am thinkin maybe it depends on getting them all at the same time so your not putting a new one into an already established teritory????


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> guy i know has a two ft tank with 2 adults and they'v evan bred am thinkin maybe it depends on getting them all at the same time so your not putting a new one into an already established teritory????


No, totally incorrect. Axolotls do recognize tank mates, when a new one is placed in the tank they may check it out. If they have been kept isolated from others they may startle each other and bolt away but after a few minutes they will be sitting on each other. Incompatibility between axolotls is generally size related as bigger ones eat smaller ones. Axolotls who have been brought up together do not appear to be any less, or more likely to attack one another and do not establish territories.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> really why? they dont get that big do they? eh people have also said dont keep fish with them because they'll damage their gills what about cat fish???


Axolotls vary in size, mine range from 8"-12" but i have selected for size, most appear to be around 6"-10", though i fear many of the smaller ones may be that size due to a bloodworm diet. I would not even consider keeping a large axolotl in a 2ft tank let alone a pair. Also keeping fish with them may cause problems, the first being that axolotls may try to eat them, catfish are often spined, this can injure or kill an axolotl, there may also be differences in the temp requirements, you would also be increasing the bio load in the tank. I have successfully kept guppies and whitecloud minnows as feeders but other species may try to nibble the axolotls gills.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> Axolotls vary in size, mine range from 8"-12" but i have selected for size, most appear to be around 6"-10", though i fear many of the smaller ones may be that size due to a bloodworm diet. I would not even consider keeping a large axolotl in a 2ft tank let alone a pair. Also keeping fish with them may cause problems, the first being that axolotls may try to eat them, catfish are often spined, this can injure or kill an axolotl, there may also be differences in the temp requirements, you would also be increasing the bio load in the tank. I have successfully kept guppies and whitecloud minnows as feeders but other species may try to nibble the axolotls gills.


i was thinking along the lines of medium to large sailfin pleco obviously nothing small enough for the axi to evan think it could eat it lol i have a really good external filter that is currently dealing with a terrapin and 4 gold fish ic comparison 3 axi's and a pair of plecs is nothing : victory:


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> i was thinking along the lines of medium to large sailfin pleco obviously nothing small enough for the axi to evan think it could eat it lol i have a really good external filter that is currently dealing with a terrapin and 4 gold fish ic comparison 3 axi's and a pair of plecs is nothing : victory:


Avoid plecs , they are vegetarian but they will suck the protective mucous off an axolotl, this will leave them vulnerable to bacterial and fungal infections. I sold two lovely golden albinos to a guy last year, i warned him about the plecs he ignored me and a fortnight latter he asked for two more axolotls as the first ones were dead. If you are planning on axolotls it is best to keep them in a single species tank.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> Avoid plecs , they are vegetarian but they will suck the protective mucous off an axolotl, this will leave them vulnerable to bacterial and fungal infections. I sold two lovely golden albinos to a guy last year, i warned him about the plecs he ignored me and a fortnight latter he asked for two more axolotls as the first ones were dead. If you are planning on axolotls it is best to keep them in a single species tank.


 
there mush be something that can go in with them to keep the algie off the glass only other thing i can think of is snails but they will eat all the plants aswell


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> there mush be something that can go in with them to keep the algie off the glass only other thing i can think of is snails but they will eat all the plants aswell


The best thing to keep algae of the glass in an axolotl tank is your hand and a sponge. I keep snails in my axolotl tanks, the axolotls will eat some but avoid big species like apple snails , they can be a choke hazard.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mcdougle said:


> i was thinking along the lines of medium to large sailfin pleco obviously nothing small enough for the axi to evan think it could eat it lol i have a really good external filter that is currently dealing with a terrapin and 4 gold fish ic comparison 3 axi's and a pair of plecs is nothing : victory:


You seem pretty determined to do this no matter what anyone says.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

*Species mixing*

Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters This link shows some of the problems encountered when mixing species.


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

sailfin plecs get too big for your tank - what are you going to do with them when they get to 18"+?
they are also very heavy feeders and will polute a tank that small in no time, dosnt really matter how big a filter you put on it or how many water changes you do.

they are also very spiny and will shred your axies.
plus they are tropical and axies arnt.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> sailfin plecs get too big for your tank - what are you going to do with them when they get to 18"+?
> they are also very heavy feeders and will polute a tank that small in no time, dosnt really matter how big a filter you put on it or how many water changes you do.
> 
> they are also very spiny and will shred your axies.
> plus they are tropical and axies arnt.


plecs take years to get to that kind of size and i'm sure if my filter can handle a terrapin it can handle some catfish lol And they can be kept in ponds in the summer so i'm sure room temprature year round would be more than adaquate the waters currently at 67F, as for causing injury i'll take your word for it but it still leave me curious because if an animal is injured by something once it genraly doesn't make the same mistake again eg. the gold fish know which end of the terrapin is the dangerous end and stay away


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> plecs take years to get to that kind of size and i'm sure if my filter can handle a terrapin it can handle some catfish lol And they can be kept in ponds in the summer so i'm sure room temprature year round would be more than adaquate the waters currently at 67F, as for causing injury i'll take your word for it but it still leave me curious because if an animal is injured by something once it genraly doesn't make the same mistake again eg. the gold fish know which end of the terrapin is the dangerous end and stay away


The filter would need to be set on a low flow for the axolotl reducing its effectiveness, amphibians are also more sensative to water conditions than goldfish. You have been given all the advice you need to make a decision for your self. The answer from experienced people in this post is no, dont do it !

" if an animal is injured by something once it genraly doesn't make the same mistake again " especially if it is dead!


----------



## klaiche001 (May 3, 2012)

yh that does help thanks guys


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> The filter would need to be set on a low flow for the axolotl reducing its effectiveness, amphibians are also more sensative to water conditions than goldfish. You have been given all the advice you need to make a decision for your self. The answer from experienced people in this post is no, dont do it !
> 
> " if an animal is injured by something once it genraly doesn't make the same mistake again " especially if it is dead!


you could still have the water turn over the same just decrease the pressure of the outlet by adding a rain bar instead of a jet therefor water movement is minimal


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> You seem pretty determined to do this no matter what anyone says.


Crack on with the plec if thats what you want but you have been warned of the possible consequences.


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

a properly fed gibbiceps does not grow slowly 

you`ll be saying fish only grow to the size of the tank next........:bash:

why dont you get pangassius shark thingys instead? thats got smooth skin and might go better with your axies? :roll:


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> a properly fed gibbiceps does not grow slowly
> 
> you`ll be saying fish only grow to the size of the tank next........:bash:
> 
> why dont you get pangassius shark thingys instead? thats got smooth skin and might go better with your axies? :roll:


lol they serve battered pangassius in the restraunt i used to work in  vietnamese cat fish aint it??


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

mcdougle said:


> plecs take years to get to that kind of size and i'm sure if my filter can handle a terrapin it can handle some catfish lol And they can be kept in ponds in the summer so i'm sure room temprature year round would be more than adaquate the waters currently at 67F, as for causing injury i'll take your word for it but it still leave me curious because if an animal is injured by something once it genraly doesn't make the same mistake again eg. the gold fish know which end of the terrapin is the dangerous end and stay away


Really? Axolotls can learn some things but in this respect they do seem a bit slow. Trust me on that one. Mine has repeatedly hurt itself the same ways in the past to the point that I'm super paranoid bout any new inanimate object going in the tank.

The waters are 67f now? You realise that means you'll be cooling that tank in summer I hope? By the way after research on the pleco 'The recommended temperature interval is 24-30 degrees C (75-86 degrees F).' 24C is past the axolotl's comfort zone, 10-20C is axolotl temps.

As for space listen to these guys. I'm looking into breeding too but I'm doing a damn load of research for the next 2 years before doing so. I wouldn't dream of keeping my 1 axolotl in a 2 foot tank. They can reach a foot as she has, that's just plain wrong for water conditions.

Finally as to your confident statement on the filter I can tell you now that having done a year of aquatics at college it has nothing to do with your individual filter efficiency if you have something too much for a little tank to handle. Good fish keepers and axolotl keepers should know how many animals can be kept in one tank goes off surface area not filter strength, you should have a filter appropriate to the size of the tank. A 10 gallon needs something like a Fluval 4 for example.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

FroggyLove said:


> The waters are 67f now? You realise that means you'll be cooling that tank in summer I hope? By the way after research on the pleco 'The recommended temperature interval is 24-30 degrees C (75-86 degrees F).' 24C is past the axolotl's comfort zone, 10-20C is axolotl temps.
> 
> As for space listen to these guys. I'm looking into breeding too but I'm doing a damn load of research for the next 2 years before doing so. I wouldn't dream of keeping my 1 axolotl in a 2 foot tank. They can reach a foot as she has, that's just plain wrong for water conditions.
> 
> Finally as to your confident statement on the filter I can tell you now that having done a year of aquatics at college it has nothing to do with your individual filter efficiency if you have something too much for a little tank to handle. Good fish keepers and axolotl keepers should know how many animals can be kept in one tank goes off surface area not filter strength, you should have a filter appropriate to the size of the tank. A 10 gallon needs something like a Fluval 4 for example.


endsleigh G&L kept there plecs in a pond (outdoors) with 2 massive red eared sliders so i'm sure they are a bit more hardy than your giving them credit for.

keeping axi's in a 2ft tank/ well any animal wont breed if its stressed or unconfortable in it environment these have bred twice already being kept in a 2ft and at normal room temprature so maybe they are a bit more hardy than you give credit for aswell. when it comes to space if it looks like they are overcrowded cause they are too big or if they become aggressive to each other its easy enough to just sell one or move it to another tank!

i do realise it surface area but also if you were to have as many fish as a tank could house but only a small filter it wouldn't do its job and you'd be constantly cleaning it out at the moment i clean it once every 4-5 months and like i said nothing is a messier eater than a terrapin so 3 axi's mess wont be a problem.

you all make out like these are big problems but in reality if any of these become an issue worth worrying over they are so easy to sort out its unbelievable that you lot kick up such a stink about it!!! :roll2:


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

People breed in slums. It doesn't mean they are comfortable.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> People breed in slums. It doesn't mean they are comfortable.


 
people are the worst species on the planet hardly evan being able to be called animals more pests on the face of the planet we consume and breed and we will keep goin and goin untill theres nothing left only thing we can be compared to are locusts if we ever found a new planet to colonise we'd just do the same thing there!! so yh we breed in slums but thats because the human race has no long term survival plan all they want to do is build more houses so they can breed more. people just sit back and think oh i'd like to have 3,4 or 5 kids then when the'v grown up the release them and here ya go mother nature you feed that fu:censor: rabble i'll go make some more!!!


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mcdougle said:


> people are the worst species on the planet hardly evan being able to be called animals more pests on the face of the planet we consume and breed and we will keep goin and goin untill theres nothing left only thing we can be compared to are locusts if we ever found a new planet to colonise we'd just do the same thing there!! so yh we breed in slums but thats because the human race has no long term survival plan all they want to do is build more houses so they can breed more. people just sit back and think oh i'd like to have 3,4 or 5 kids then when the'v grown up the release them and here ya go mother nature you feed that fu:censor: rabble i'll go make some more!!!


 All true- but this doesn't explain why you want to create a slum for your axolotls.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> All true- but this doesn't explain why you want to create a slum for your axolotls.


how is it a slum? a nice planted up sand bottom tank 3 small axolotles an 1 maybe 2 medium sized plecs to keep the glass clean filtration will be more than adequate with plenty of hiding places in the plants and if i decide to put in a couple caves it will be perfect for them and if i run into a problem its easily sorted my brother has loads of fish tanks so if the plecs need to come out they can go in one of his tanks if the axi's grow to big to house 3 then i'll sell one and it really is that simple, not as complicated as everyone likes to make it sound!!


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> how is it a slum? a nice planted up sand bottom tank 3 small axolotles an 1 maybe 2 medium sized plecs to keep the glass clean filtration will be more than adequate with plenty of hiding places in the plants and if i decide to put in a couple caves it will be perfect for them and if i run into a problem its easily sorted my brother has loads of fish tanks so if the plecs need to come out they can go in one of his tanks if the axi's grow to big to house 3 then i'll sell one and it really is that simple, not as complicated as everyone likes to make it sound!!


You asked a question about keeping plecs with axolotls, you were given the answer which is "no", you obviously know next to nothing about this species yet you are arguing the point with people who do. Why ask a question then completely disregard the answer ? by the time you figure out the plecs are causing a problem it may to too late and could lead to fatalities or injuries for the axolotls. If you want to stick plecs in with them carry on, you can create your very own axolotl death tank.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> You asked a question about keeping plecs with axolotls, you were given the answer which is "no", you obviously know next to nothing about this species yet you are arguing the point with people who do. Why ask a question then completely disregard the answer ? by the time you figure out the plecs are causing a problem it may to too late and could lead to fatalities or injuries for the axolotls. If you want to stick plecs in with them carry on, you can create your very own axolotl death tank.


actually the original question was how to sex them so i can make sure i get 2 female and 1 male!! i guess i'll learn from my mistakes if i make them, cause in the end personal experience is alot more reliable and valuble than any book or web page can ever tell you!!


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

mcdougle said:


> how is it a slum? a nice planted up sand bottom tank 3 small axolotles an 1 maybe 2 medium sized plecs to keep the glass clean filtration will be more than adequate with plenty of hiding places in the plants and if i decide to put in a couple caves it will be perfect for them and if i run into a problem its easily sorted my brother has loads of fish tanks so if the plecs need to come out they can go in one of his tanks if the axi's grow to big to house 3 then i'll sell one and it really is that simple, not as complicated as everyone likes to make it sound!!


If they get too big? That's as if as saying I live in a 2 room flat but if my great Dane puppies get too big I'll get rid of em. Mate 3 axolotls that are gonna get at least 6 inches each are not gonna be happy in a 2ft aquarium, unless it's like 3ft deep. I've seen 2 breeding axolotls coexist in a 2ft aquarium in adulthood and trust me no other animal would have fit in. It's like making 3 people share a box bedroom, it is slumming. Mate your arguing with people who actually did enough research to know all these basics already, I learnt this at college and reviewed it at university! The rule with axolotls is the bigger the tank the better. They LIKE space to move in. It is essential for proper courtship.

I looked around for summit to eat the algae too. (Note algae not algie, Algie is the name of my axolotl and is short for Algernon). I went to a specialist aquarist to ask about it, trust me there is nothing you SHOULD put in with an axolotl that's bigger than it, they'll either eat bits off them, be too aggressive or have sharp bits the axie will hurt itself on and ALL are tropical fish which means you SHOULD keep them at an optimum temperature. Your best bet if you are too lazy to just scrape the stuff is to get a coldwater catfish that doesn't get big enough for the axolotl to be interested in. Stay clear of loaches though and make sure you check what's likely to nibble on the axie.

Basic rules if you ever want to become a respected breeder of a herp:

1. own at least 1 as a pet from young to end of life FIRST

2. do enough research that we don't worry, asking how to sex them and then having set up so soon after tells me I don't wanna buy off you never mind the rest

3. make sure you have a market in your area, if not good luck housing all those babies if they don't all eat each other. After all, without keeping them in at least a standard of minimum requirements that responsible herp breeders meet then most won't want to pay a huge amount of money to transport an axolotl to their home risking a poor example. 

People aren't telling you this stuff to have a go, we're trying to help. Or at least I can say I am, otherwise you could have spent a load of money for a heck of a loss and could potentially lose your pets too.


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

What axolotls do you have?


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

i never said i'm keeping them in a 2ft tank i said i'v seen them breed in a 2ft tank and there were only 2 in that tank if you look back through the comments you'll see my tank is 32Lx15Wx18H or basicly 3ft and so just over a ft cubed for each axolotl.

i have kept reptiles since i was about 10 and other animals prior to that since i was probably about 4 or 5 so have had plenty of animals to the end of their lives.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

FroggyLove said:


> What axolotls do you have?


i dont have any!


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

mcdougle said:


> i dont have any!


What axolotls are you getting?


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

FroggyLove said:


> What axolotls are you getting?


well idealy i'd like one of each wild, lucistic and gold phase


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

mcdougle said:


> i never said i'm keeping them in a 2ft tank i said i'v seen them breed in a 2ft tank and there were only 2 in that tank if you look back through the comments you'll see my tank is 32Lx15Wx18H or basicly 3ft and so just over a ft cubed for each axolotl.
> 
> i have kept reptiles since i was about 10 and other animals prior to that since i was probably about 4 or 5 so have had plenty of animals to the end of their lives.


OK my mistake, I read through a lot quite quickly so sometimes things jumble in your head. That tank should be suitable for 3 breeders of 6 inches but most will get bigger so it's worth investing in a bigger tank. At worst they'll still be glad of the extra space.

Oh and just to add, maybe that's where you are managing to miss the point about the fish with axies then. Axies are a lot more fragile than reps. I don't mean they're not tough, mine lives in 10 gallons of water and has taught me a lot, 24C = stomach infection for example but she was easy to recover and has only once in 8 years needed a vet. However, they have really soft fragile skin and gills and you'd be amazed how much damage just keeping it with those plecs could cause. Mine has in her life shown me many things I didn't learn from books and am really glad I had her for the 8 years of her life thus far before considering breeding or there could have been disasters.

I am now spending a long time researching breeding. Algie will not be bred ever, she has a genetic defect equivalent to cleft palate. I am also waiting until she has passed on in 2-7 years time to set up. Means looking at getting 3 breeding sized tanks as there's swapping about involved.


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

mcdougle said:


> well idealy i'd like one of each wild, lucistic and gold phase


Reasonable variety. I'm looking at a golden albino (true albino), a melanoid or wild type depending what's available in the right sex, and a white albino just cause I've wanted one for ages.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> actually the original question was how to sex them so i can make sure i get 2 female and 1 male!! i guess i'll learn from my mistakes if i make them, cause in the end personal experience is alot more reliable and valuble than any book or web page can ever tell you!!


I was referring to a latter question, the one below, the initial question shows your level of understanding and you are actually arguing about axolotl care with axolotl breeders and if you honestly think "personal experience is alot more reliable and valuable than any book or web page can ever tell you!!" ,then you will go through a hell of a lot of axolotls before you hit upon the methods that we are telling you here. Oh and by the way i will be selling some of the 300 hatchlings i currently have in a month or so and none will be coming your way, it would be kinder to feed them to my oscar.



mcdougle said:


> i was thinking along the lines of medium to large sailfin pleco obviously nothing small enough for the axi to evan think it could eat it lol i have a really good external filter that is currently dealing with a terrapin and 4 gold fish ic comparison 3 axi's and a pair of plecs is nothing : victory:


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> I was referring to a latter question, the one below, the initial question shows your level of understanding and you are actually arguing about axolotl care with axolotl breeders and if you honestly think "personal experience is alot more reliable and valuable than any book or web page can ever tell you!!" ,then you will go through a hell of a lot of axolotls before you hit upon the methods that we are telling you here. Oh and by the way i will be selling some of the 300 hatchlings i currently have in a month or so and none will be coming your way, it would be kinder to feed them to my oscar.


i'm not worried mate plenty of shops sell them lol you can buy 4 inchers at pet project for 8.50 each so i'm not gonna split hairs about that :2thumb:


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mcdougle said:


> how is it a slum? a nice planted up sand bottom tank 3 small axolotles an 1 maybe 2 medium sized plecs to keep the glass clean filtration will be more than adequate with plenty of hiding places in the plants and if i decide to put in a couple caves it will be perfect for them and if i run into a problem its easily sorted my brother has loads of fish tanks so if the plecs need to come out they can go in one of his tanks if the axi's grow to big to house 3 then i'll sell one and it really is that simple, not as complicated as everyone likes to make it sound!!


 Nope, it's not 'complicated'- it's giving your animals optimum conditions, or treating them like 'toys'. Glad your brother has lots of tanks- maybe he can rescue your mistakes!



mcdougle said:


> actually the original question was how to sex them so i can make sure i get 2 female and 1 male!! i guess i'll learn from my mistakes if i make them, cause in the end personal experience is alot more reliable and valuble than any book or web page can ever tell you!!


Oodles of people on here have given you their 'personal experience'- you don't want to hear.


mcdougle said:


> i never said i'm keeping them in a 2ft tank i said i'v seen them breed in a 2ft tank and there were only 2 in that tank if you look back through the comments you'll see my tank is 32Lx15Wx18H or basicly 3ft and so just over a ft cubed for each axolotl.
> 
> i have kept reptiles since i was about 10 and other animals prior to that since i was probably about 4 or 5 so have had plenty of animals to the end of their lives.


 How long were their lives? :whistling2:



mcdougle said:


> i'm not worried mate plenty of shops sell them lol you can buy 4 inchers at pet project for 8.50 each so i'm not gonna split hairs about that :2thumb:


So again, living things are to you a toy to buy and use where you want? Maybe you shouldn't keep animals at all.


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Nope, it's not 'complicated'- it's giving your animals optimum conditions, or treating them like 'toys'. Glad your brother has lots of tanks- maybe he can rescue your mistakes!
> 
> 
> Oodles of people on here have given you their 'personal experience'- you don't want to hear.
> ...


he wont be rescuing anything! its a simple case of IF i make a mistake i have the tank space available to seperate them, how am i treating them like toys exactly? that would imply that i get bored of them and just get rid of them when ever wouldn't it? 

thing is half of it isn't personal experience you been told something just gone OH KAY!! and got on with it so most of it is just second hand information!!

all my animals lived healthy lives while in my hands and you can ask any one who has ever bought an animal off of me will tell you the same and i can garauntee you that!! i have a list of them you can contact in my pm's!! you can evan look through my threads at pics of animals i've sold!! all except 1 baby turtle were in stunning condition!

and so how does not being bothered if one person decides not to sell to me or evan looking for a good deal on such a common animal imply that i shouldn't be keeping animals???


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mcdougle said:


> he wont be rescuing anything! its a simple case of IF i make a mistake i have the tank space available to seperate them, how am i treating them like toys exactly? that would imply that i get bored of them and just get rid of them when ever wouldn't it?
> 
> thing is half of it isn't personal experience you been told something just gone OH KAY!! and got on with it so most of it is just second hand information!!
> 
> ...


Tell me this: WHY can you not take even one thing on board here that people have given up their time to tell you. Obviously you know all. Well good luck with that, I've been keeping reptiles and amphibians for over 40 years, and still I learn EVERYDAY from the experience of others. I wish I knew as much as you...


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

mcdougle said:


> thing is half of it isn't personal experience you been told something just gone OH KAY!! and got on with it so most of it is just second hand information!!


Actually, i have already told you that "I" sold two golden albinos to a guy who kept them with plecs (despite receiving the same warning as i gave you) and they died, that is first hand experience! I personally wouldn't sell you an axolotl as you are following a path which will probably end in its suffering or death, you started this thread to ask for advice , you have received what is perceived by people who know about axolotls to be good advice yet you insist on ignoring it, why do you even bother asking?


----------



## mcdougle (Jan 20, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> Actually, i have already told you that "I" sold two golden albinos to a guy who kept them with plecs (despite receiving the same warning as i gave you) and they died, that is first hand experience! I personally wouldn't sell you an axolotl as you are following a path which will probably end in its suffering or death, you started this thread to ask for advice , you have received what is perceived by people who know about axolotls to be good advice yet you insist on ignoring it, why do you even bother asking?


maybe i shouldn't have bothered, like i said all i wanted to know was how to tell them apart lol


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

OK I just wanna butt in and say, you two pack it in.

First, to OP, you gotta know where to stop with axolotl people, as you can see most are short tempered. You're adding fuel to the fire here. To ian, mate you are not taking the best attitude for giving advice. You give good advice but you have to remember that people are more likely to ignore you if you get nasty.

Second on the advice, to the OP, the advice is good mate even if it is harping on a bit on one track now. Plecs are a big no with axolotls, I may not have kept plecs with axies but I've been shown how fragile axies are and I've looked after plecs so I know what they could do accidentally to one. As to websites and books, don't necessarily diss them, some are very accurate and detailed and good if you're a first timer to at least get an idea off. Axolotl.org is one of the best resources. Your tank will be too small if they get bigger than 8 inches so be prepared to get a bigger tank if they grow, you should have more than 1 too. You'll need one for the breeding to take place in and another to either remove the eggs to or (what I'll be doing) the parents. Ideally in a 2f 1m you want to be able to remove the male too or he could get stressed out, for once it's the females that do the harassing. Not known any major incidents with that just body language signs of stress.

To ian, advice isn't given by just repeating the same points over and over. Clearly OP doesn't want to scrape off algae, now as much as I find that lazy the correct way to give advice is to tell absolute no's e.g. pleco, and offer possibilities e.g. small coldwater animals. I believe there's a shrimp that's a possibility in this respect, some smaller species of snails and a couple tiny fish but can't remember the species names.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

FroggyLove said:


> OK I just wanna butt in and say, you two pack it in.
> 
> First, to OP, you gotta know where to stop with axolotl people, as you can see most are short tempered. You're adding fuel to the fire here. To ian, mate you are not taking the best attitude for giving advice. You give good advice but you have to remember that people are more likely to ignore you if you get nasty.
> 
> ...


lol, thanks for your kind words my advice was friendly and was ignored so i became a tad sarcastic, it is irksome to see somebody determined on a course of action which is detrimental to an animals welfare but thanks for "your friendly advice". If you actually take time to read my posts you will find that i offered alternate tank mates. Also the information you posted is inaccurate (or debatable at best) on a couple of points, now if you will excuse me i have five tanks of baby axolotls to look after before i can chill out and enjoy my day.


----------



## FroggyLove (May 15, 2012)

ianxxx said:


> lol, thanks for your kind words my advice was friendly and was ignored so i became a tad sarcastic, it is irksome to see somebody determined on a course of action which is detrimental to an animals welfare but thanks for "your friendly advice". If you actually take time to read my posts you will find that i offered alternate tank mates. Also the information you posted is inaccurate (or debatable at best) on a couple of points, now if you will excuse me i have five tanks of baby axolotls to look after before i can chill out and enjoy my day.


I know, but there were others causing issues first and it had almost settled when you returned to the sarcasm. I know it's frustrating but take time out to breathe. I just want to avoid yet another fight on these forums since the mods don't seem too bothered by it.

As to accuracy, I was referring to others like yourself. I'd like to know what inaccuracies I have, I'm only looking into breeding at the moment as I admitted, I don't claim to know everything about it. I have plenty of time to do so but any advice I'd appreciate myself.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

FroggyLove said:


> As to accuracy, I was referring to others like yourself. I'd like to know what inaccuracies I have, I'm only looking into breeding at the moment as I admitted, I don't claim to know everything about it. I have plenty of time to do so but any advice I'd appreciate myself.


 I will pm you, i am finished with this thread.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> I will pm you, i am finished with this thread.


 Me too- I'm beginning to think it was a troll invasion, anyway.


----------



## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

ianxxx said:


> I will pm you, i am finished with this thread.


Couldnt pm you sorry, here is the info

The guys tank is 38x15x18, i am presuming inches as he reffered to feet in another post, this tank size got lost in the "debate" (lol), this tank size is 44.42 uk gallons , less a bit for lower water level , ornaments , sand etc. The min requirement per axolotl is 10 uk gallons, i personally would use more. For three axys this tank would be considered ok by some , the other important issue is floor space , long tanks are better so an axolotl can swim/walk about, this tank is 3ft long so is adequate as long as he doesnt end up with three 12" monsters, three at 8" would be ok. This point is debatable, post it in the forums and you will get different opinions, i would say it is acceptable but not ideal, i keep two adults in a tank that size and three in a four foot.
"Ideally in a 2f 1m you want to be able to remove the male too or he could get stressed out, for once it's the females that do the harassing. Not known any major incidents with that just body language signs of stress."
Are you talking of generall harrasment, courtship or after egg laying? Females can be a bit bigger (bodymass wise) but are not generally considered to be more aggressive. Courtship wise it is males who harras females and other males, after egg laying there is no female protection, some species such as paddletails have aggressive female defence but not axolotls.
The shrimp you were reffering to is a cherry shrimp. If you want to know about axolotl breeding join caudata.org, it is part of axolotl.org, check the old threads for info, then hit the chat for specific questions, people will be happy as long as they see you have allready researched the topic.


----------

