# hermann Tortoise Substrate?



## mase01

Just wondering what substrate everyone uses for their hermann? 
i was maybe looking at a change, i used zoo med eco earth, have been told pro rep tortoise life bio is good stuff?

just wanted some ideas on what most people use and what is best for a hermann?

Thanks


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## purplepixie

mase01 said:


> Just wondering what substrate everyone uses for their hermann?
> i was maybe looking at a change, i used zoo med eco earth, have been told pro rep tortoise life bio is good stuff?
> 
> just wanted some ideas on what most people use and what is best for a hermann?
> 
> Thanks



They have soil in the wild, so soil is the way to go:0)


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## LiasisUK

Tortoise Life is what we used to use, very good natural substrate


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## SueBoyle

Everything should be as natural as possible, so whatever your garden consists of.


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## jeremy68

I use 50% play sand/ 50% levingtons top soil for indoor accommodation, spot cleaned daily and changed 4 monthly. They seem happy on this.


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## purplepixie

jeremy68 said:


> I use 50% play sand/ 50% levingtons top soil for indoor accommodation, spot cleaned daily and changed 4 monthly. They seem happy on this.



I would remove the sand, as it can irritate their eyes, and chemical free garden soil is fine:0) Just to say they should be outside this time of the year, where they really thrive:0)


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## jeremy68

purplepixie said:


> I would remove the sand, as it can irritate their eyes, and chemical free garden soil is fine:0) Just to say they should be outside this time of the year, where they really thrive:0)


Thank you and duly noted about the sand, although our local soil is also very sandy. My tortoises are currently outside; my post refers to the mix I use for indoor accommodation as I assumed that the OP was enquiring about indoor substrates.


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## SueBoyle

purplepixie said:


> I would remove the sand, as it can irritate their eyes, and chemical free garden soil is fine:0) Just to say they should be outside this time of the year, where they really thrive:0)


Agree playsand is not good for tortoise substrate. Sharp sand however closely resembles natural terrain and is the way to go for tinies. Remember though that they should be outdoors in natural substrate ASAP. Never keep anything bigger than a hatchling in a tortoise table


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## jeremy68

At the moment I am alternating between an outside run with turf and stone substrate, and separate indoor tortoise tables 2.5 x 1.2 metres with uvb lighting and overhead ceramic heating. They are vigorous and active on a varied diet of wild plants. I'm aware that the accommodation is not ideal and currently converting a breeze block outbuilding to have heated space inside and a hatch to a larger outside run. Would it be best to strip some of the turf in their outside runs, to expose the top soil ?


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## SueBoyle

jeremy68 said:


> Thank you and duly noted about the sand, although our local soil is also very sandy. My tortoises are currently outside; my post refers to the mix I use for indoor accommodation as I assumed that the OP was enquiring about indoor substrates.





jeremy68 said:


> At the moment I am alternating between an outside run with turf and stone substrate, and separate indoor tortoise tables 2.5 x 1.2 metres with uvb lighting and overhead ceramic heating. They are vigorous and active on a varied diet of wild plants. I'm aware that the accommodation is not ideal and currently converting a breeze block outbuilding to have heated space inside and a hatch to a larger outside run. Would it be best to strip some of the turf in their outside runs, to expose the top soil ?


Personally I’d remove the turf altogether as you don’t get hermanni using turf in the wild. How old are your tortoises as that’s not a lot of room for them. Activity is a good thing in most cases and depending on the weather etc but indoors can also be stress related due to confinement. Ceramic heating is not good either really, as all heat should be from bright light like the sun. Your uv needs to cover the whole indoor area and not come from bulbs that cover a small area. Sorry if you already have full cover 😉


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## jeremy68

Hi Sue,

Tortoises are 18 (female) and 16 (male). Female came to us very much as a rescue; she has a missing foot, apparently from a vivarium fire in infancy, an everted anus (but she passes stools without apparent distress and vet said it was best left alone) and a shell with moderate pyramiding. The male is far more smooth-shelled. 

The uv is not full cover - its biassed towards the hot end of the tables. A further challenge is that we live in Orkney, where hot sunny days are rare. However, their current outside runs are in an enclosed space which acts as a reasonable heat trap, and they have spent most days since April outside, coming indoors at night.

I will create the permanent accommodation for next spring, incorporating all of your recommendations as to heating, lighting and substrate. As mentioned, we have a suitable outbuilding, and I will cut a hole in the back end wall for outside access. At this stage could you please advise on the following ?

suitable amount of indoor and outdoor space for each tortoise
heating/lighting products for the indoor space

Many thanks, Jeremy


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## SueBoyle

First and foremost, a table is only ever suitable for hatchlings, nothing bigger, it’s akin to waterworld or the average zoo 🤨 Orkney is fine for tortoise keeping so long as you are prepared to install a greenhouse with added heat and uvb for those bad days. Heat trap areas don’t really work, as no matter how warm to us humans if you feel the tortoise it will still be cold unless in full sun. Basking heat is essential, so lamps in the greenhouse are the way to go. Amount of space for each tortoise is the same as for several tortoises as they love to wander and if confined will walk the perimeter, so as much space as you are able, your entire garden if possible, but obviously with safe barriers throughout. Farm pig lamps are ideal for basking heat, but be sure they are clear glass and not red. Well done on giving these two a second chance 😉


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