# Bearded Dragons - Both hiding



## Superbuzz3 (Dec 7, 2007)

Is it normal for Beardies to hide a lot at any one period in their life?

Both my two ladies seem to spend all day hidinh now (either under the hanging fake plant, or squeezed in behind the cork bark.

It means that they are both very cold to touch.

I have checked the Temps, and Basking spot is 102.9 degrees and cold end is 69.8 degrees.

I pick them up and put them back in under the basking spot to warm them up but as soon as I leave the room and come back, they are both hiding again.

They are still eating all be it at a slower rate, but I have out that down to their age as they are both around 1 year old.

Any ideas or suggestions?


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Superbuzz3 said:


> Is it normal for Beardies to hide a lot at any one period in their life?
> 
> Both my two ladies seem to spend all day hidinh now (either under the hanging fake plant, or squeezed in behind the cork bark.
> 
> ...


NEVER have hides, plus increase your basking temps...go for 110

at 1 year old should be a fair size...


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

temps seem a bit on the cold side.

try raise the basking site to 110-115 and the cool side to 80-85

this may help


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

it sounds like brumation, but as i stated raise the temps.

it also may be worthwhile getting a fecal done to rule out parasites


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

raise the temps first, they seem a bit cold,
then remove the hides!: victory:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

As already said, remove your hides and raise the temperature... If they don't perk up pretty quickly, it could be a sign of parasites or worms so would recommend a fecal..


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> As already said, remove your hides and raise the temperature... If they don't perk up pretty quickly, it could be a sign of parasites or worms so would recommend a fecal..


i thought there wasnt hides ?

the OP mentioned a plant and some cork bark.

is that not more decorative features?

if they are hides though, best to remove them


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> i thought there wasnt hides ?
> 
> the OP mentioned a plant and some cork bark.
> 
> ...


seen many bd's hide under plants, esp if not hot enough....they dont feel safe so hide under anything they can....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

although your not meant to provide them with a hide, you should somewhere to seek shelter i am led to believe.

try raising the temps and see what that does


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> although your not meant to provide them with a hide, you should somewhere to seek shelter i am led to believe.
> 
> try raising the temps and see what that does


anything that can provide shelter is classed as a hide.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> although your not meant to provide them with a hide, you should somewhere to seek shelter i am led to believe.
> 
> try raising the temps and see what that does


Apololgies DanDan, I was classing 'hides' as anything that an animal will use to hide under, there is no need to provide shelter (or hiding places) for bearded dragons, esp if they are using them to hide during the day.

Sorry if my plain English is too plain for you...

Plus brumation isn't recommended for young beardies, and the signs of brumation and illness are very hard to distinguish between...if there is any doubt it's wise to get them checked out!


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> Apololgies DanDan, I was classing 'hides' as anything that an animal will use to hide under, there is no need to provide shelter (or hiding places) for bearded dragons, esp if they are using them to hide during the day.
> 
> Sorry if my plain English is too plain for you...



fair enough.

but i am sure its best to give them somewhere to seek shelter.

e.g behind a rock, the feel secure as they cant see you but are still getting the benefits of the UV


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> fair enough.
> 
> but i am sure its best to give them somewhere to seek shelter.
> 
> e.g behind a rock, the feel secure as they cant see you but are still getting the benefits of the UV


A beardie needs to be within 6" of UV for it to have the required effect (with some UV's 12"), if it is hiding it will not be gaining any benefit from UV rays. There is no reason for them to take shelter in a viv, if they are trying to hide there is usually a reason for it, ie stress, illness etc etc.


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## Fcukangel (Oct 26, 2008)

My bd does the same i spoke to the pet shop owner and he said some bd will try adapt to our climate so they will slow down and become more lazy over winter.


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> A beardie needs to be within 6" of UV for it to have the required effect (with some UV's 12"), if it is hiding it will not be gaining any benefit from UV rays. There is no reason for them to take shelter in a viv, if they are trying to hide there is usually a reason for it, ie stress, illness etc etc.


it will be benefitting from the UV, the uv tube shines down on to the beardie. the rock is to hide behind not under.

most beardies wont hide, but it should still be there as an option


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Fcukangel said:


> My bd does the same i spoke to the pet shop owner and he said some bd will try adapt to our climate so they will slow down and become more lazy over winter.


if you up the temps, this normally kicks them ot of brumation

but it is still advisable to get a fecal doe, to rule out parasites as they symptoms of both are very similar


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> it will be benefitting from the UV, the uv tube shines down on to the beardie. the rock is to hide behind not under.
> 
> most beardies wont hide, but it should still be there as an option


Only if it's within 6"-12" of unblocked UV, if it's hiding behind a rock then are the UV rays obscured???


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

well the uv will be between 10-12" from ground level i would of though on most peoples vivs.

no because the uv tube is circular , there for pointing uv in all directions basically.

which means although the leo is behind the rock from our view looking straight on.

the uv will still be able to get to the from above as the rocks dont go above the beardie


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> well the uv will be between 10-12" from ground level i would of though on most peoples vivs.
> 
> no because the uv tube is circular , there for pointing uv in all directions basically.
> 
> ...


???? If they don't go above the beardie then they are not hiding behind them are they, who put the leo in there, leo's don't need UV? You can view different UV coverage on the UV site.... 

I have never had a beardie go into brumation as most of the beardies I have looked after have not been in the best condition, most brumation is forced through change of temps etc, it is not recommended for a young or ill beardie to brumate, and therefore if your temps are right and your beardie is still lethargic/ not eating, then there is a good chance of it being ill, so vets advice should be sought...


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## Fcukangel (Oct 26, 2008)

My bd eats fine and runs all over the place when out shes just lazy if shes alone as soon as you go in the room she likes to come to the glass and watch you


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> ???? If they don't go above the beardie then they are not hiding behind them are they, who put the leo in there, leo's don't need UV? You can view different UV coverage on the UV site....
> 
> I have never had a beardie go into brumation as most of the beardies I have looked after have not been in the best condition, most brumation is forced through change of temps etc, it is not recommended for a young or ill beardie to brumate, and therefore if your temps are right and our beardie is still lethargic/ not eating, then there is a good chance of it being ill, so vets advice should be sought...


sorry meant beardie, trying to reply to different threads, must of got mixed up.

they are hiding from us, if they cant see you, you cant see them. like how a beardie may close its eyes when outside the viv, same principle applies

i disagree with the brumation part.

my beardie went into brumation, with no changes what so ever.

basking site 105-110
cool side 80

i agree about young ones not going into burmation though :2thumb:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Jeez DanDan, you give me a headache!!!


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

haha, not meaning to, but if thats what it takes to get my point across, then so be it.

do you understand what i am saying yet?


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm not trying to argue with you, but how many people have a UV strip on the roof of their viv's when their viv is only 1ft tall???? You don't put a beardie in a 1ft tall viv, do you.... soooooooo, in order for a UV to be able to reach a beardie when its on the floor hiding behind a 'flat' rock it would have to be 6"-12" above the beardie with no obstruction..... Now do you get my point, or would you like pictures????

So what I am trying to say is if a beardie is on the floor of a 2ft high viv with the UV on the roof, the UV's are not reaching him whether or not he is hiding behind a 'flat' rock, Not unless that is you have a very special UV strip thats UV's cover 24"...

And how on earth did a thread about a beardie hiding turn into a thread about UV???


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## Fcukangel (Oct 26, 2008)

I have my UV on the back wall of my viv


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

most people have either an 18" high or 24" high.

in these vivs people normally place the UV 12" away from basking area which on most cases is a flat rock.

if its a high perch, its still really only 6-10 inches away, still only being around 12" 
from the ground.

in a basic viv there wouldnt be an obstruction i would of though.

basking rock, and a big branch from climbing. and if your placing a rock in the viv. it wold be slightly out from the back, thus allowing the beardie to hide away from us, but still receive uv from above. and with a refelctor i wold assume the UV tube could be even higher.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Fcukangel said:


> I have my UV on the back wall of my viv


Fcukangel I imagine you to be a very sweet impressionable young lady, and I love the way you are trying to diffuse me from swearing!:lol2:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

How would you put a rock on a perch for it to hide behind? I'd love to see your set-ups!! You put a UV as close to the basking spot as possible as that is where a beardie should spend most of its time, not 12" away from it..... someone pass me the paracetamol...


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

I give up...... I need a brick wall to bang my head against


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## Fcukangel (Oct 26, 2008)

Pics on here of mine not good pics but there pics


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

not hard if you have a 12" shelf and a 7" rock for example.

youve just helped my argument there 

flat rock 1" high for basking - UV tube 7" aboves - which means, UV tube 8 inches from ground.

so if beardie was hiding behind a rock on the ground he would be within the 12" and still receiving benefits from the UV


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Last comment as you keep contradicting yourself, Now you are getting what I am saying, you can't move a UV tube every time the beardie decides he wants to move to another area. Most basic vivs don't have a shelf running across them...do you actually have a beardie???? I want to see a pic of your set-up as it sounds mad...

A basic beardie viv consists of a 4x2x2 viv with a 42" uv (positioned so that the beardie has good access to it's rays), a basking bulb and a basking site amongst other stuff, but no hides, and no places where the beardie can hide where the UV is unable to reach him. The only time a beardie should hide if he is well, is of a night when the UV is off and he is asleep....

And with that it's goodnight from me, as I have to go to work.

Amen


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> Last comment as you keep contradicting yourself, Now you are getting what I am saying, you can't move a UV tube every time the beardie decides he wants to move to another area. Most basic vivs don't have a shelf running across them...do you actually have a beardie???? I want to see a pic of your set-up as it sounds mad...
> 
> A basic beardie viv consists of a 4x2x2 viv with a 42" uv (positioned so that the beardie has good access to it's rays), a basking bulb and a basking site amongst other stuff, but no hides, and no places where the beardie can hide where the UV is unable to reach him. The only time a beardie should hide if he is well, is of a night when the UV is off and he is asleep....
> 
> ...


i dont see how i have contradicted myself. i am just trying to explain that beardies can still get uv hiding.

as you say 42" uv running along the viv.

as you said in your previous post - as close to the basking area as possible.

so in theory a UV tube 6" away from the basking spot, will mean that in theory its 12" or less away from the ground. thus meaning hiding behind a rock on the ground means the uv will be pentrating downwards onto the beardie.

its not hard to follow.

and yes i do have a beardie.

my set up as follows

4x2x18

use tiles as basking spot with the MVB so i dont have a UV tube, but did have previously.

i also have a big branch running across the viv

with a roughly 12" cubed shelf in the far corner.

i dont like to name names but i am sure it was in one of hades threads about his beardies, he provides something they can hide behind, whilst still benefiting from UV.

furtermore, in the wild when a beardie is too hot, he will retreat to a shady area, to cool down. these little 'hides' give off a little shade. whilst not totally hiding the beardie away.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Just before I'm out the door, in the caresheets section on here, Hades Dragons have a caresheet which says otherwise, read it and see as he is a very very experienced breeder and very knowledgeable .... he is a mod tho I'm sure, maybe you could PM him for confirmation.

BUT UV RAYS DO NOT PENETRATE THROUGH ANY OBJECT THAT MAY BE USED AS A HIDE, BE IT A HIDE, A ROCK, A LOG ETC ETC. WHATEVER...

The cool end is where they retreat to to cool down, and if you need a hide for a cool spot, then your temps must me wrong....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

hes says not to provide a hide, as in a cave.

but a rock to go behind to feel 'safe' is ok, as they are still getting UV, the rock does not go over the beardie! the beardie moves behind the rock.

without emailing him, look at his thread on the viv build for his beardie spyro. he provides a cave like hide, for him to cool down, go to sleep in.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

He has built a 'grotto' in a 5ft viv in the cool end to encourage the beardie to go at certain times of the day to mimic desert conditions in a specialist vivarium, it's not a rock is it? You are saying a lord and master of beardies is contradicting himself? there is a lot of difference between a 'basic' viv and a specialist vivarium, which is what he has built here, and would cost a lot of money and a lot of experience to replicate....

If you are now getting into the specialist area of viv design then that is a whole different ball game.....

Most people's definition of rock is a boulder, if you are saying a flat rock ie tile, piece of slate etc then it cannot be hidden behind can it?

Must go now, but Uv rays do not bend round corners either.....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> He has built a 'grotto' in a 5ft viv in the cool end to encourage the beardie to go at certain times of the day to mimic desert conditions in a specialist vivarium, it's not a rock is it? You are saying a lord and master of beardies is contradicting himself? there is a lot of difference between a 'basic' viv and a specialist vivarium, which is what he has built here, and would cost a lot of money and a lot of experience to replicate....
> 
> If you are now getting into the specialist area of viv design then that is a whole different ball game.....
> 
> Must go now, but Uv rays do not bend round corners either.....


did i say it was a rock? i said it was a 'hide' for which the beardie can retreat to for shade/sleep etc.

go onto this thread started by hades

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/107475-bearded-dragon-substrate-idea-feedback.html

look at the pictures.

is there not raised rocks for the beardies to go behind? are these not positioned so that the uv rays can still get to the beardie?

i think so.


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## Superbuzz3 (Dec 7, 2007)

Its not a hide as such....just areas they can squeeze into......none the less I'll remove them



cooljules said:


> NEVER have hides, plus increase your basking temps...go for 110
> 
> at 1 year old should be a fair size...


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## Superbuzz3 (Dec 7, 2007)

To add another dimensions....our radiators have packed up working in the last few weeks, which is when they started to hide daily.....but tyhat would not affect the stat they are on.

I have fitted a Reptile night light to add heat for the night.



Bosscat said:


> ???? If they don't go above the beardie then they are not hiding behind them are they, who put the leo in there, leo's don't need UV? You can view different UV coverage on the UV site....
> 
> I have never had a beardie go into brumation as most of the beardies I have looked after have not been in the best condition, most brumation is forced through change of temps etc, it is not recommended for a young or ill beardie to brumate, and therefore if your temps are right and your beardie is still lethargic/ not eating, then there is a good chance of it being ill, so vets advice should be sought...


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Superbuzz3 said:


> To add another dimensions....our radiators have packed up working in the last few weeks, which is when they started to hide daily.....but tyhat would not affect the stat they are on.
> 
> I have fitted a Reptile night light to add heat for the night.


You might want to monitor how he is with the night light, as a lot of beardies are disturbed by them..... As long as you have accurate thermometers (digital) to check the temp over night, I should think you'll be ok...


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

actually you would be suprised at how outside temps can affect them.

beardies still know when its winter even if you have kept your lighting and heating the same all year round.

your best bet would of been a heat mat on a stat as there is an ongoing debate whether lizards can see red etc.

i know my beardie can, he follows the laser pointer around on my infra red temp gun


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> You might want to monitor how he is with the night light, as a lot of beardies are disturbed by them..... As long as you have accurate thermometers (digital) to check the temp over night, I should think you'll be ok...


something we can both agree on:devil:

no reply to my post though :whip:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> did i say it was a rock? i said it was a 'hide' for which the beardie can retreat to for shade/sleep etc.
> 
> go onto this thread started by hades
> 
> ...


I'm back because the pilot light has just gone out :bash:

He has flat stones and a basking rock, but then I don't see any of his beardies hiding behind his flat stones or rock, do you? and they are not being used as hides as the beardies are not using them to hide behind.

Please PM him as you are now confusing 'hide' for rock, a rock becomes a hide when it's hidden behind.....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

the stones are raised though an inch or 2 behind the gorund.

not then they werent, but it can be used as one, and they beardies have the option to.

a hide i.e a cave, would block all uv from hitting the BD

a rock hidden behind although makes the beardie feel secure still allows the uv rays to hit the beardie


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

also look at the third pic down.

basking area seems to be by the logs.

the beardie is sitting on a raised rock.

which if the beardie wanted to could hide behind, whilst he would still benfit from the UV he will feel 'safe' as he can not see us


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## bmth girl (Apr 18, 2008)

Bosscat said:


> I give up...... I need a brick wall to bang my head against


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
There you go ....:whistling2:​


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## bmth girl (Apr 18, 2008)

In reply to the Question that started this thread ....get a fecal done .....please :lol2:​


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

You guys are quite scary, I'm a mental health practitioner and you two would keep me busy!!!!! You know it's pretty intimidating for newbies reding this stuff!! Wouldn't it be better for differences in opinion to be aired privately? Just a thought....:blush:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks bmth girl, I needed that.....

Sorry dandan, if a beardie wants to use something as a hide it should be removed... if it'd not being used to hide behind then it's not a hide.

If a specialist sets a viv up to mimic the desert then that stops becoming a basic viv, and is something many of us cannot do.

I'm not saying black is white, I'm just saying that if something is used to hide behind (hide meaning that we cannot see it, and neither can the UV rays), then it shouldn't be there if it is being used for this purpose. I have rock, bark and logs in my vivs, but they are not being used for the beardie to hide out of the way of UV's as that isn't good for ones health or growth. If they want to retreat to cool down, they go in the cool end of their viv. Us people with our basic viv's cannot replicate how they live in their natural surroundings (only close to), we can only make them liveable and to suit the reps needs. Specialist viv's are a completely different issue altogether....

THATS IT, you think it's ok for a beardie to hide during the day and I think that if a beardie is hiding it is sign of other things, wrong temps, illness etc. I can't change the way you think only you can through your own research and learning.....


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

RyKate said:


> You guys are quite scary, I'm a mental health practitioner and you two would keep me busy!!!!! You know it's pretty intimidating for newbies reding this stuff!! Wouldn't it be better for differences in opinion to be aired privately? Just a thought....:blush:


wait till i get going...i make those 2 look like ameturs :whistling2:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> You guys are quite scary, I'm a mental health practitioner and you two would keep me busy!!!!! You know it's pretty intimidating for newbies reding this stuff!! Wouldn't it be better for differences in opinion to be aired privately? Just a thought....:blush:


There is nothing scary about this post whatsoever, it's a difference of opinion, there is no offensive language or abusive behaviour happening. But if you think it is in any way intimidating, then you can report it if you so wish....


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

cooljules said:


> wait till i get going...i make those 2 look like ameturs :whistling2:


Please take over Jules, Dan Dan has given me a serious headache and I got to go to work !!!


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Bosscat said:


> Please take over Jules, Dan Dan has given me a serious headache and I got to go to work !!!


at your sevice.....

Lord Jules of Sheffield ready and waiting...


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

Sorry, it was a tongue in cheek comment, didn't mean to cause offence!! Just a LOL!! I know some people feel strongly about some issues, just seems to get a bit heated sometimes is all. :blush:


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Sorry, it was a tongue in cheek comment, didn't mean to cause offence!! Just a LOL!! I know some people feel strongly about some issues, just seems to get a bit heated sometimes is all. :blush:


nah i was being funny too....im from yorkshire, its hard to tell....:notworthy:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Sorry, it was a tongue in cheek comment, didn't mean to cause offence!! Just a LOL!! I know some people feel strongly about some issues, just seems to get a bit heated sometimes is all. :blush:


I can be quite humourous, problem is unless I cover it in smiley faces, people can't see it


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

cooljules said:


> at your sevice.....
> 
> Lord Jules of Sheffield ready and waiting...


Lord Jules of Sheffield, please confirm that a hide is any object that can be hidden in or behind and that could obscure UV rays

PS: Do you have any valium, I'm out?


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

Both Bosscat and Cooljules, obviously I read the threads and know you both know your stuff; I bow down :notworthy: to your superior knowledge, seriously, but wow! sometimes!!! I'm glad you have senses of humour!!!!


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Both Bosscat and Cooljules, obviously I read the threads and know you both know your stuff; I bow down :notworthy: to your superior knowledge, seriously, but wow! sometimes!!! I'm glad you have senses of humour!!!!


:Na_Na_Na_Na: see what you made me do? You just made me use a smiley!!!! goddam!


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

AAAAAhhhhh!! All warm and fluffy you are!!!


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Both Bosscat and Cooljules, obviously I read the threads and know you both know your stuff; I bow down :notworthy: to your superior knowledge, seriously, but wow! sometimes!!! I'm glad you have senses of humour!!!!


i dont know much...im learning stuff each day...

im also not good with what books say etc. as i started rescuing/keeping reps before the web and acess to good books or advice...so i learnt about Igs/Bd's etc by keeping as close to i could in the wild..


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

RyKate said:


> AAAAAhhhhh!! All warm and fluffy you are!!!


thats what my snakes like!! :whistling2:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> AAAAAhhhhh!! All warm and fluffy you are!!!


Not a chance.... on all my PDR's I have "must learn to be more pink and fluffy" - if I wanted to be pink and fluffy I'd be candyfloss.....

I HATE PINK & FLUFFY, why do you think I don't use my counselling qualifications????


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey, I didn't say PINK!!! I understand your sentiments tho'!!


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Hey, I didn't say PINK!!! I understand your sentiments tho'!!


I know, but thats what I associate with fluffy.... hence pinkies and fluffs!!! and they should all be eaten by Jules's snakes! Shoot, I really should sleep more before I go an do nights!


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

Don't do nights anymore, thank god! Just wanted to inject a little humour into this thread before anyone got mortally offended! Sorry if I myself caused offence!!:blush: Glad I induced someone to use a smiley! No-one can deny the knowledge of some of our high ranking members, :notworthy: due deference there!, but I stand by my stance that you are still scary sometimes. Rhetoric, no need to answer! Still love you guys!! And in a perverse way, as a newbie, love to read the heated debates, it's actually very informative.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

RyKate said:


> Don't do nights anymore, thank god! Just wanted to inject a little humour into this thread before anyone got mortally offended! Sorry if I myself caused offence!!:blush: Glad I induced someone to use a smiley! No-one can deny the knowledge of some of our high ranking members, :notworthy: due deference there!, but I stand by my stance that you are still scary sometimes. Rhetoric, no need to answer! Still love you guys!! And in a perverse way, as a newbie, love to read the heated debates, it's actually very informative.


 
Glad to see you like the debates, no offence taken! And I again have years of research, but still feel my knowledge broadening everyday, you can never give up learning! Hope to meet you in our debates again soon....


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## RyKate (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey, up for it! Just new to it!! Thanks. (No smileys!)


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> Thanks bmth girl, I needed that.....
> 
> Sorry dandan, if a beardie wants to use something as a hide it should be removed... if it'd not being used to hide behind then it's not a hide.
> 
> ...


anything in theory can be used as a hide, does that mean we should have nothing in our vivs?

and again re-itirating the uv rays CAN get to them. as i showed in the example of hades pics.

and i was not suggesting for them to be used as a hide. i said from the start i thought it was advisable to have something like this if they ever feel they need to seek 'shelter'

i know they go to the cold side to cool down.

but what if something scared the BD loud noise something going on in the room etc, whats the harm in him feeling secure behind a rock for an hour. nothing because hes still getting his UV rays and can come back out once the dissruptance has stopped.

in the wild when sleeping they would hide somewhere where no predators can get to, so lying in the open in their eyes is a threat. so whats the harm in letting them sleep behind the rock where the feel secure?

and re-itiraring, i never said its ok for a BD to hide all day, i said i thought it was advisable to something like a rock the can hide behind so they can use it if they so wish.


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

I wouldn't normally get involved in silly posts but after the stupid amounts of research which I have done for my current build, I feel that I need to add a few comments.

Dan, please re-read Hades post, he is providing around 300uw/cm2 of uv for his bd, which is what the desert provides during midday sun. The OP isd using a tube which is about 10 - 20 uw/cm2 of uv. Therefore Hades needs to provide somewhere for his bd to hide to stop them over photo regulating, where as the OP need to ensure they provide full uv all day to ensure the bd gets enough uv.

Please do not start these arguements when a newbie is asking advice, this forum is here to help and silly arguement only cause more confusions. If you fell you need to argue this further, then please feel free to PM me. I have spoken to Darren @ Megaray and Frances @uvguide in lengh and know what I'm on about.


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

without getting into an argument.

i will re-itirate

i never gaves hades viv build as the only example.

and the uv can still get to the BD from the tube, its hiding away from us by moving behind a rock, but the uv can still come down from above


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> without getting into an argument.
> 
> i will re-itirate
> 
> ...


Under a tube and hiding behind a rock, no bd dragon wiull get the right amount of uv, regardless of what you say


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

jaf2212 said:


> Under a tube and hiding behind a rock, no bd dragon wiull get the right amount of uv, regardless of what you say


here comes the dreaded smiley, only for you Jamie :notworthy:


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

doesnt have to be directly under the tube.

and it will still be receiving the same 10-30 uw/cm2 as it would elsewhere in the viv


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> doesnt have to be directly under the tube.
> 
> and it will still be receiving the same 10-30 uw/cm2 as it would elsewhere in the viv


 
Dan show me a tube which gives 30 uw/cm2 uv when the bd is behind a rock. for that sort of uv it would have to be sat on the floor!!!


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Bosscat said:


> here comes the dreaded smiley, only for you Jamie :notworthy:


Thanks, glad someone understands what i'm saying :2thumb:


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

i understand what your saying, but you dont seem to understand me.

just figures i have been taking from what people say about the tubes.

but your beardie is going to get the same amount of uv on the floor basking as it would lying behind a rock as long as its in the path of a uv light


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

jaf2212 said:


> Thanks, glad someone understands what i'm saying :2thumb:


And vice versa..... but would you like a brick wall to bang your head on, or some paracetamol????


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

i really dont understand the need for the sarcasm.

i was just trying to explain something. 

not hard to follow either.

as long as the BD is in path of the uv, he will receive it.


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> i understand what your saying, but you dont seem to understand me.
> 
> just figures i have been taking from what people say about the tubes.
> 
> but your beardie is going to get the same amount of uv on the floor basking as it would lying behind a rock as long as its in the path of a uv light


Its you that doesn't unbderstand.

Next summer, go sun bathing and lay half in the shade and see what happens and then you might start to realise what we are saying, or if you do already understand then stop posting silly posts



Bosscat said:


> And vice versa..... but would you like a brick wall to bang your head on, or some paracetamol????


I have a brick wall, I'm off to use it now :2wallbang:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> i really dont understand the need for the sarcasm.
> 
> i was just trying to explain something.
> 
> ...


Hurray!!!!! You finally get the gist!


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## howie91 (Nov 20, 2007)

In my viv, I have got what i call Platforms not realy small enough to be called hides. and they only have a roof to them. 
all that my lot do is just sit on the platforms if they want to get an even hotter basking temp.

other than that, they love it. as they can utilise there full viv size.


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> Hurray!!!!! You finally get the gist!


i have said this all along.

and have said being behind the rock does not block the UV path.

being under it yes, but there not under it.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> i have said this all along.
> 
> and have said being behind the rock does not block the UV path.
> 
> being under it yes, but there not under it.


BRICK WALL..... A. rock. blocks. uv. rays..... hello????? So how is it in the UV rays if it's behind a rock????????????????????????????????????????????

Goodnight DanDan.....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

because the uv shines down on the BD it does not have to penetrate through a rock.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

howie91 said:


> In my viv, I have got what i call Platforms not realy small enough to be called hides. and they only have a roof to them.
> all that my lot do is just sit on the platforms if they want to get an even hotter basking temp.
> 
> other than that, they love it. as they can utilise there full viv size.


Sounds good Howie


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> because the uv shines down on the BD it does not have to penetrate through a rock.


I'm going to work now dandan, but on my return I shall draw you a picture..... maybe then you'll understand....


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

*http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/13paige13-/PICT0412.jpg

pic from google*

so your saying if the BD was to move behind the cork bark at the front of the viv the uv would not hit the BD

thats the point i am trying to make


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> *http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/13paige13-/PICT0412.jpg*
> 
> *pic from google*
> 
> ...


I've drawn this as simple as I can for you










A beardie hiding behind a rock with the uv tube in the middle of the viv, will not get the right uv. 

If the picture is not clear enough for you to understand let me know and I'll ask my mates 4 yr to draw it for you


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

for peet sake

look at the picture i supplied you with.

a beardie hiding behind it would still get uv

as simple as


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> for peet sake
> 
> look at the picture i supplied you with.
> 
> ...


A tube in that location with no reflector would provide very little if not any uv if the bd was hiding at the front of the viv. Dan you clearly do not understand the uv output and range, please read up on it before replying


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

one arcadia d3 with reflector actually gives around 30 uw/cm2 at 14 inches. so with an 18 inch or even 24 inch viv depth wise, would still allow the dragon to receive a decent amount of uv

UV Lighting for Reptiles: Fluorescent Tubes and Reflectors


look at the chart for the d3


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Dan Dan The Reptile Man said:


> one arcadia d3 with reflector actually gives around 30 uw/cm2 at 14 inches. so with an 18 inch or even 24 inch viv depth wise, would still allow the dragon to receive a decent amount of uv
> 
> UV Lighting for Reptiles: Fluorescent Tubes and Reflectors
> 
> ...


 
you are a :censor:

Look at the pic you used, there is no reflector so it will not provide the correct uv.


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## Dan Dan The Reptile Man (Nov 8, 2007)

i will take that as a compliment.

i am not using the picture as a rule to follow.

i am just stating the BD would get uv.

obvioulsy a refelctor is better, and most people will use them, that was just the first pic i came across to try and explain things better


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## howie91 (Nov 20, 2007)

Bosscat said:


> BRICK WALL..... A. rock. blocks. uv. rays..... hello????? So how is it in the UV rays if it's behind a rock????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Goodnight DanDan.....


I think what you mean is that. the Infra red. (Heat) is not blocked by the rock. But UV rays can simply be blocked by a paine of glass. However, having a rock in there is a good thing during the day it gains heat and during the night it releases it so keeps the temps up a bit and is an excelent basking spot for them.


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## bmth girl (Apr 18, 2008)

Superbuzz3 said:


> Is it normal for Beardies to hide a lot at any one period in their life?
> 
> Both my two ladies seem to spend all day hidinh now (either under the hanging fake plant, or squeezed in behind the cork bark.
> 
> ...


 Just to let you know my bd has now been given the "all clear" and is worm and parasite free, she is no longer hiding .....get a fecal done ....( think that answers some of your worries)....


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## Fcukangel (Oct 26, 2008)

How much is a feacel and where can you have them done?


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## bmth girl (Apr 18, 2008)

Fcukangel said:


> How much is a feacel and where can you have them done?


 Find a rep vet, consultation, test and meds if neccessary can all cost around £38 thats what mine cost......:2thumb:


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

bmth girl said:


> Find a rep vet, consultation, test and meds if neccessary can all cost around £38 thats what mine cost......:2thumb:


Glad to see your beardie is all clear now bmth girl!


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