# New viv and Snake set up



## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi all, I am sure you get many posts like this one I am about to write, and I apologise. I have looked through forums but none have really answered the specific questions that I have.

I purchased a Butter Corn snake yesterday, here is the little fella. I also purchased a beginner kit to accompany the snake, I bought this kit because it seemed a decent set up and was not a bad price, it certainly worked out cheaper then buying everything separate. 

I got home and set up the viv the way I wanted whilst paying attention to the instructions of best practice, all was going well. Here it is set up. The snake went in and buried itself straight away and seems happy.

The problem I have is the heat mat, the instructions for the heat mat state that in a glass viv, which mine is, that the mat should be on the outside of the viv, and this particular setup requires the heat mat to go on the side of the viv rather then the bottom. There is no way to attach the mat to the side of the viv so I have fixed it to the side using electrical tape like this, I have put the copper elements towards the glass, here is a view from inside the viv. To me the heat mat feels very cold, there is a warmth coming from it, but not anything like what I would have expected, the glass is not warm and it actually feels warmer on the outside of the tank.

I have my thermometer set up on the same panel as my heat mat, and this is the reading, about 22 degrees. 

My question are: 1. is the mat set up correctly? 2. is the mat running correctly? 3. is the temp ok? 

Most places I have read state that between 25-27 is ideal for corns.

Many thanks in advance.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Although it says to put it on the side of the viv, you really want it under it as mats only heat the area it touches (a bit like an electric blanket). 

Pop it on the underside of the viv with a hide on top of it, so they have a nice warm area to hide.

The dial thermometers aren't as reliable as the digital ones, but you've got it far to high as well. You're measuring the temperature in a place the snake will never get to, ideally you want a digital thermometer in the warm end - usually inside the hide, and one (not 'needed') in the cool end so you know you've got a decent heat gradient.

You could also do with a thermostat to make sure the heat mat doesn't over heat.... and some branches for the little 'un to climb on


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Meko said:


> Although it says to put it on the side of the viv, you really want it under it as mats only heat the area it touches (a bit like an electric blanket).
> 
> Pop it on the underside of the viv with a hide on top of it, so they have a nice warm area to hide.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply, so you think I should tape it to the bottom? do I have it round the right way with the copper element on the glass?

Also what thermostat would you recommend? Do heat mats have a tendency to overheat?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

It looks the right way round, as the plastic block looks as though the flattest part is on the bottom (so it sits flat). 

A pulse stat keeps temperatures steady but a mat stat is fine for the job, it just means the temperature fluctuates slightly.

They don't 'over heat' as such but they can make the surface of the viv too hot for the snake. As there's no built in thermostat there's nothing to tell it when to stop heating up. If the heat mat can get to 50c then it will do, so the thermostat just tells it when to stop.


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## Kingcooke (Apr 17, 2011)

bondred said:


> Thank you for your reply, so you think I should tape it to the bottom? do I have it round the right way with the copper element on the glass?
> 
> Also what thermostat would you recommend? Do heat mats have a tendency to overheat?


you can tape it to the bottom if you want, might want to take some of that aspen out because the heat will not go that far through it. you deff need a stat, because you might wake up to a toasted snake one morning. i would recommend this stat and secure the probe to the mat. you will also need a digital thermometer and place the probe in the warm hide and adjust the mat stat so you get your desired temp.


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Meko said:


> It looks the right way round, as the plastic block looks as though the flattest part is on the bottom (so it sits flat).
> 
> A pulse stat keeps temperatures steady but a mat stat is fine for the job, it just means the temperature fluctuates slightly.
> 
> They don't 'over heat' as such but they can make the surface of the viv too hot for the snake. As there's no built in thermostat there's nothing to tell it when to stop heating up. If the heat mat can get to 50c then it will do, so the thermostat just tells it when to stop.


I am a bit confused, the plastic block is at it's thickest on the side with the exposed copper, so it doesn't sit flush.

I have attached it to the bottom of the viv and have moved the thermostat to the floor of the viv on the warm side.



Kingcooke said:


> you can tape it to the bottom if you want, might want to take some of that aspen out because the heat will not go that far through it. you deff need a stat, because you might wake up to a toasted snake one morning. i would recommend this stat and secure the probe to the mat. you will also need a digital thermometer and place the probe in the warm hide and adjust the mat stat so you get your desired temp.


I have taken out a substantial amount of the aspen, and now have a very bare layer on the warm side, thin enough so you can see the floor through places, and have reduced but still have a thicker layer on the cool side of the viv.

Cheers for the advice on the stat I have ordered one.

This is how I now have it connected, I have turned it round, faced the copper out and sat it as flush as possible.

And this is how the inside now looks


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Having now moved the mat to the underside of the viv, the snake is spending most of it's time on the warm side.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

You need to put the viv on some little "feet" - small pieces of wood Under each corner will do. This will stop thermoal blocking under the viv which could crack the glass if it gets too hot.What does the thermometer say now? If it's over 30C then turn the mat off until you have a thermostat to control it with and don't feed the snake until you've set this up properly. The snake will be fine without heat for a while but overheating isn't good for them, so it's preferable to leave the snake cold.The copper side of the mat is the bottom, stick the other side to the glass.You may also find it beneficial to stick the mat to the bottom of the viv with a sheet of thin polystyrene or stiff corrigated cardboard as this will insulate and help direct hte heat up into the viv.


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> You need to put the viv on some little "feet" - small pieces of wood Under each corner will do. This will stop thermoal blocking under the viv which could crack the glass if it gets too hot.What does the thermometer say now? If it's over 30C then turn the mat off until you have a thermostat to control it with and don't feed the snake until you've set this up properly. The snake will be fine without heat for a while but overheating isn't good for them, so it's preferable to leave the snake cold.The copper side of the mat is the bottom, stick the other side to the glass.You may also find it beneficial to stick the mat to the bottom of the viv with a sheet of thin polystyrene or stiff corrigated cardboard as this will insulate and help direct hte heat up into the viv.


The warm side of the viv is sat at 29 degrees and has been since I moved the mat to the bottom 2 days ago, the viv is lifted of the floor, the instructions say it is designed this way to allow the heat to escape. Even though it also says to stick the mat to the side of the viv!!

The snake has spent approx 90% of it's time in the warm half. My thermometers should arrive tomorrow so I will get a more accurate reading then.


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

One more thing, I have just had my first go at feeding, I removed him from his viv, put him in his feeding box, defrosted and warmed up two fuzzy mice and introduced them to the snake with tongs.

All he did was slide over them. 

What do I do now? do I leave them in the box together for a few hours? or do I put it down to a failed attempt and try again next week?

Does it matter that the fuzzy mice are now stone cold? will that put the snake off?

Advice very much appreciated


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## NickF (Apr 24, 2012)

bondred said:


> Hi all, I am sure you get many posts like this one I am about to write, and I apologise. I have looked through forums but none have really answered the specific questions that I have.
> 
> I purchased a Butter Corn snake yesterday, here is the little fella. I also purchased a beginner kit to accompany the snake, I bought this kit because it seemed a decent set up and was not a bad price, it certainly worked out cheaper then buying everything separate.
> 
> ...


just remember... glass is not a heat insulator, so it will take a while for everything to get up to temperature


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

bondred said:


> One more thing, I have just had my first go at feeding, I removed him from his viv, put him in his feeding box, defrosted and warmed up two fuzzy mice and introduced them to the snake with tongs.
> 
> All he did was slide over them.
> 
> ...


I'd get a digital thermometer from ebay for about £3 personally, the dial ones are rubbish. If you ever go in a shop and look at them they all read different temperatures lol. 
It's absolutely fine to feed a snake in their enclosure instead of taking them out. I'd leave them overnight in his enclosure with him, he may feed when not being disturbed


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

becky89 said:


> I'd get a digital thermometer from ebay for about £3 personally, the dial ones are rubbish. If you ever go in a shop and look at them they all read different temperatures lol.
> It's absolutely fine to feed a snake in their enclosure instead of taking them out. I'd leave them overnight in his enclosure with him, he may feed when not being disturbed


Thank you, I have 2 digital thermometers in the post, bought them on saturday from fleabay, couple of quid each.

I have put the snake in it's feeding box, inside the viv and left him too it, will check back in the morning.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

bondred said:


> What do I do now? do I leave them in the box together for a few hours? or do I put it down to a failed attempt and try again next week?



Don't be too surprised if he doesn't eat them, you've only just bought him and relocated him. Then he had a cold viv before having it re-arranged and getting some warmth. Then he got stuck in another tub in the viv.
You usually have to give them time to settle in before handling or feeding, so if he doesn't eat, just try again next week


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

bondred said:


> Thank you, I have 2 digital thermometers in the post, bought them on saturday from fleabay, couple of quid each.
> 
> I have put the snake in it's feeding box, inside the viv and left him too it, will check back in the morning.


Don't worry about using a feeding tub at all, literally just drop some food in for him in the evening and leave til the morning. A lot of the time they will eat once left alone, you just got to resist checking every 2 mins  Ebay is great for cheap equipment lol.


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for the help so far in this thread, it really is appreciated.

I found out the reason why my snake didn't feed: This

The day after he shed I gave tried him on some more food and bingo he didn't waste any time in consuming 2 fuzzy mice and kept them both down.

So far so good, but I do have a question or two more. The heat in my viv is 30 degrees, I have kept it at 30 with a Habistat, but I read today that a constant 30 is too much and may actually harm my snake. He chooses to spend still almost 90% of his time in the warm side of the viv. I am still waiting for my digital thermometers to arrive so I cannot accurately measure the temp in the cool side.

Am I right to keep it at 30 degrees if he is spending is time there or is he still too cold? 30 seems quite hot to me.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Corn temperatures vary greatly, speacially between keepers.
Some keep them at room temperature fine others keep them as high as 32C ok.
The advised range on most care sheets which is good to follow to start with is a hot spot of 26-28C.
However, with any snake you should watch it's behaviour and tweek your viv and temps to suit what the snake is wanting, ie if it spends all it's time in the cold it's probably avoiding the heat so turning it down a bit may help and vice versa.
In this case, since the snake has been in shed so far, they tend to hide when in shed so you won't yet know what it's habits are really like yet. I suggest leaving your temp at around 28-30 and then see how the snake likes it. He sould be fine.


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## bondred (Apr 29, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> Corn temperatures vary greatly, speacially between keepers.
> Some keep them at room temperature fine others keep them as high as 32C ok.
> The advised range on most care sheets which is good to follow to start with is a hot spot of 26-28C.
> However, with any snake you should watch it's behaviour and tweek your viv and temps to suit what the snake is wanting, ie if it spends all it's time in the cold it's probably avoiding the heat so turning it down a bit may help and vice versa.
> In this case, since the snake has been in shed so far, they tend to hide when in shed so you won't yet know what it's habits are really like yet. I suggest leaving your temp at around 28-30 and then see how the snake likes it. He sould be fine.


Thank you, I am really hoping my thermometers turn up today. 

I guess I need to go hunting for poop as well!


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