# Help me decide which breed...



## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Or at least, help me shorten the list a bit.

Ok, so when I get out of the house I'm living in at the mo, I'm hoping to get another dog, the problem is, I can't decide which breed.

The list of choices seems to be growing, not shortening with the more breeds I Research.

So here are the breeds I'm debating over, would be interested to here from anyone with experience with these breeds.

1. Csv,, Czechoslovakian wolfdog.

2. Gsd, German shepherd dog.

3. Akita, American type.

4. Wolf look alike types, northern inuit/tamaskan/anglo wolfdog etc.

5. Beauceron.

6. Old style bulldogs, Victorian, Dorset old time etc.

7. American bulldog.

8. Swedish vallhund.

9. Dogue de bordo.

10. Cane corso.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

What a variety?
What do you plan to do with the dog? What sort of exercise would you like to be giving?


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## purpleskyes (Oct 15, 2007)

I was just on the kennel club website they have a quiz you take that lists suitable breeds might be useful:2thumb:


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Exercise wise. As I doubt I'll be moving that far out of the area, there are a good couple of woodland/ecology parks around for dayly walks and off lead time. There is also a canine hydrotherapy pool a few miles away, which I'd be planning to take it to for a swim once a week, more if I can afford to.
As far as activities I'd do with he/she, that'd depend on the dog I eventually end up with. Obedience or protection work breed dependant are things I've conciddered so far. However, any dog I get is first and formost a pet.


Ref the kc quiz, I'll take a look at it, thanks for pointing that out. The problem is, that some of those breeds arn't kc recognized , so it won't mention them.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Personally id say cane corso or american bully, good intelligent breeds which make great guards and protection dogs but are also very good with kids, not generally dog agressive and make good pets. Then again I love bullys so im biased :lol2:. The KC quiz is a bit odd. . . it came up with some odd recommendations for me for dogs that TOTALLY wouldnt fit in with our lifestyles!


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## cathspythons (Jun 29, 2008)

You carn't beat an American Akita.They are stunning,loyal,intelligent and so damn cute as puppies. I'm slightly biased though,i just love them to bits :flrt:


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

I think you would struggle to find a Czech Wolfdog in the UK, you may have to look into importing.

Presumably you have experience of owning dogs and similar breeds to those you have listed? You dont mention anything about your previous experience and the breeds you have listed are all only suitable for people with extensive experience of training dogs as the are powerful dogs and can be very difficult and would potentially be very dangerous in inexperienced hands.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, I've just done the quiz, and it gave me some strange results as well

One of my Aunts used to have akita's, and another has gsds, so have some experience with these and what they require.

The problem is, that all the breeds on the list, have qualities I like.

So, to take a different angle on it, what are the draw backs to the breeds listed, as every breed has downsides, maybe knowing more about these, will help me to decide.


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

Tazer said:


> Yeah, I've just done the quiz, and it gave me some strange results as well
> 
> One of my Aunts used to have akita's, and another has gsds, so have some experience with these and what they require.
> 
> ...


 
Have you ever owned a dog yourself?


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

Myjb23 said:


> Have you ever owned a dog yourself?


Thats what i was going to ask...most of the dogs on that list are large, and prone to dominance/aggression issues if not handled and socilaised correctly. 
you also need to be looking out for great temperament parents of your puppy in these breeds particulaly.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> I think you would struggle to find a Czech Wolfdog in the UK, you may have to look into importing.
> 
> Presumably you have experience of owning dogs and similar breeds to those you have listed? You dont mention anything about your previous experience and the breeds you have listed are all only suitable for people with extensive experience of training dogs as the are powerful dogs and can be very difficult and would potentially be very dangerous in inexperienced hands.


 
I speak to owners of Czech wolfdogs quite regulaly on other forums. 

The problem with the csv in the uk at the mo, is that the people responsible for bringing the breed into the uk, did so, and then crossed them with timber wolves, tamaskans, northern inuits etc, so now, many of the good breeders in Europe, don't want to sell puppies over here. Can't say I blame them.

I do no of one person who I'd trust breeding a litter over here at the end of the year, beginning of the next. But even though I really like the breed, I'm still not sure if they are right for me yet, as I havn't met any personally.

As for my experience.

We got our first dog, working lines lab, when I was 7/8, would have been a gsd, but me mam wasn't fond of them then. I got envolved with everything to do with that dog, and the following ones, also working lines labs, my parents even had to arrange vet times around school so I could go with them, as they were my dogs and I wanted to be as envolved with their care, training socialisation as I possibly could be and still am, only now I'm paying the bills as well. 

I was the one who did the training classes, kcgc skeem with them, not my parents, because I wanted to. Other family members had/have akitas, gsds as I've already stated in another post. So have some experience with these.

As part of my college course, we had to complete training and behaviour practical as well as theory modules. I handled gsds, retrievers a saluki, oh, and an airdale, as well as a collie x greyhound that was scared of men, and the trainer was a man, certainly made it interesting though. 

Also, spent some time in a canine hydrotherapy centre, where we got to handle everything from yorkies to supposed pitbulls, reyhounds, dogue de bordos, labs, collies, malamutes etc.

I may not have 50 years of training military dogs or similar, I feel I've learned a lot from the experience I do have, and am always open to learning more. 

I am fully aware that in the wrong hands manyh of the breeds I've listed could potentially be dangerous, but then, so could mylabs, in the rong hands. 

But that is why I'm asking for advise now, and researching, so I don't make a mistake later wit the choice I make. I'm not the type to go out and get a dog, or any animal for that matter, without thought, buying on a whim is not something I understand. I'm not some tool looking for a status dog, as some of the people I've seen round here are.

I want to no everything I can to enable me to make an informed decision, and nothing less will do.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

lizardloverrach said:


> Thats what i was going to ask...most of the dogs on that list are large, and prone to dominance/aggression issues if not handled and socilaised correctly.
> you also need to be looking out for great temperament parents of your puppy in these breeds particulaly.


 
Of course, as well as making sure the breeder has had all relevant health tests done hip/elbo scoring for example.


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

They could not have bred the czech dogs with timber wolves, the resulting puppies would only be able to be owned by those with the correct licence.

To be completely honest, with your experience i would say the Swedish Valhund is the only breed on that list i could recommend to you. Something like a czech wolfdog, or even an akita, is a whole different animal to a labrador. I own and breed labradors and have trained and handled many different dogs including some on your list and i can honestly say, i would not class myself as experienced enough to own half of the dogs you have listed even with my hands on experience.

Without wanting to sound condescending, i think you need to sit and really think about whether you truely want a dog as a pet, or just because of how it looks. There are many, many breeds that i would recommend as more suitable for you than those you listed, i would say the majority of general pet owners should not be owning most of those dogs.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> .
> There are many, many breeds that i would recommend as more suitable for you than those you listed, i would say the majority of general pet owners should not be owning most of those dogs.


Not to be rude but whats wrong with american bulldogs and olde tyme bulldogs? Yes they can be boisterous and in the wrong hands could go wrong but the OP has already said they want to research it as much as possible before they get the dog. I dont agree with the whole "its no good as your first dog- you dont have enough experience argument" if you seek the help of a trainer from the start and make your choices wisely when it comes to the litter then i dont see what the problem is. The first dog I had when I moved out of the family home was a rottie, and we didnt have any problems. Of course people pick dogs they like the look of, why else would dogs like pugs/pekinese exist!


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> They could not have bred the czech dogs with timber wolves, the resulting puppies would only be able to be owned by those with the correct licence.
> 
> To be completely honest, with your experience i would say the Swedish Valhund is the only breed on that list i could recommend to you. Something like a czech wolfdog, or even an akita, is a whole different animal to a labrador. I own and breed labradors and have trained and handled many different dogs including some on your list and i can honestly say, i would not class myself as experienced enough to own half of the dogs you have listed even with my hands on experience.
> 
> Without wanting to sound condescending, i think you need to sit and really think about whether you truely want a dog as a pet, or just because of how it looks. There are many, many breeds that i would recommend as more suitable for you than those you listed, i would say the majority of general pet owners should not be owning most of those dogs.


Ok, I've put up with the knitpicking, but sorry that I find down right offencive, how dare you, who don't know me from bloody Addam, even suggest that I'd pick a dog on its appearance alone, you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

If I was anywhere near the complete useless tool you seem to want to believe I am, then don't you think I'd have just gone out and got one of the breeds already, rather then devote hours of my time to learning about them, and putting up with crap like this, which, isn't helping anyone btw. 

Of course they are a different kettle of fish from a lab, that goes without saying, and I say again, that is why I'm asking for people with relevant breed experience, so I can learn as much as I can, to help me make an informed decision as to their suitability for me. Not to be patronised or talked down to, and just because you feel you can't handle certain breeds, doesn't give you the right to judge everyone by those standards. 

I think you need to take your own advice, and really sit and think about how you can judge some one's character without ever taking the time to get to know them.

Oh, and yes the guy has crossed the csvs, if you spent anywhere near the time I have reading about them, and talking to people, you'd have found that out for yourself.

I suggest you try asking the people of wolfdog.org, the members of which, you will find, comprise of a lot of the Czech wolfdog breeders in Europe. 

Or you can stick this in your adress bar:

www.ukwolfdogs.com

And ask him yourself. 

P.s.

If you have any relevant experience with any of the formentioned breeds, then feel free to share it, if not, and all you want to do is patronise me, then may I politely suggest, that you stop wasting my time and yours.

Now, if you don't mind, I've got a guidedog to work, and pet dogs to look after.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

girlsnotgray said:


> Not to be rude but whats wrong with american bulldogs and olde tyme bulldogs? Yes they can be boisterous and in the wrong hands could go wrong but the OP has already said they want to research it as much as possible before they get the dog. I dont agree with the whole "its no good as your first dog- you dont have enough experience argument" if you seek the help of a trainer from the start and make your choices wisely when it comes to the litter then i dont see what the problem is. The first dog I had when I moved out of the family home was a rottie, and we didnt have any problems. Of course people pick dogs they like the look of, why else would dogs like pugs/pekinese exist!


tHANK YOU.

i GUESS WHATS ANNOYING ME MOST, IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE GUIDE DOG, ARE FAMILY PETS, i'VE BEEN THE ONE TO DO 99% OF THE WORK INVOLVED IN LOOKING AFTER THEM. 

i WENT TO TRAINING AND SOCIALISATION CLASSES WHEN ANY OTHER TEENAGER WOULD'VE BEEN OUT WITH THEIR FRIENDS, BECAUSE THEY WERE AND STILL ARE MY DOGS. i'VE SPENT MORE TIME RESEARCHING TEMPERAMENTALLY SUITABLE BREEDS, DISCOUNTING MANY, WHO i DIDN'T FEEL HAD ENOUGH OF THE TEMPERAMENTAL CHARACTERISTICS THAT WOULD SUIT ME, EVEN THOUGH i LIKED THE LOOK OF THEM, THAN i CARE TO THINK ABOUT. aLL THAT, THEN TO BE PATRONISED BY SOME tOM, dICK OR hARRY, i FIND QUITE INSULTING.

cAN i ASK, IS THIS THE NORMAL REACTION ONE WOULD EXPECT WHEN ASKING FOR ADVICE ON THIS FORUM.

p.S.

rOTTIES ARE GORGEOUS. 

Also, could you recomend any responsible ambulldog or oldtime bulldog breeders, informative sites, or books, thanks.


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## temerist (Feb 1, 2009)

Tazer said:


> 1. Csv,, Czechoslovakian wolfdog.
> 
> 2. Gsd, German shepherd dog.
> 
> ...


All lovely breeds, I did notice you say you had good places near you to walk and off lead time, if you want a dog you can let off the lead then maybe one of the "wolf" type dogs isnt the best to go for.

Personally I am not a fan of akitas japanesse or american and have no expereince with them so cant really comment.

I think out of the breeds you listed I think you may be best suited with either a german shepherd or a bulldog be it american or english old tyme.

Mastiffs are a wonderful breed, and obviously being a breeder of mastiffs I am quite bias but they are a very demanding and head strong breed.

I am sure whatever breed you decide on will be great. An dont worry too much about people asking if you have expereince with particular breeds, even people who own them were at some point new to the breed, you have to start somewhere. 

If you want a chat about mastiffs please feel free to pm me

Ian


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

May sound like a silly question, but have you seen all these dogs 'in the flesh'? I know sometimes i think i like a certain breed, but having met them i then decide otherwise! 
so maybe try and narrow the list a little more, then visit some breeders/owners of the rest. spend some time with the different breeds.
(if you havnt already!) 

Like Ian im biased :blush: and would like the DDB, Cane corso or oldtyme from your list, 
DDBs are very much like Bullmastiff which i own. And they really are fantastic dogs.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

You can get a few people overreacting LOL. We havent had an ambull for years but our last dog we got from supreme bullies in yorkshire, that was about a decade ago though and sadly we lost cassie in a car accident when she was two. Great dogs though and in the short time we had her never had any problems.
Rotties are amazing dogs, would love to have one again but have 4 bullies atm so iv got my hands full and my daughter wants a frenchie so thatll be next on our list!
You should try contacting breed rescue societys, they will be able to give you loads of info on the breeds in question and may even be able to help you rehome a dog in need which they would match to your lifestyle so everyones happy!


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## woma man (Jan 11, 2010)

american akita got one my self akitas are good with owners not so good with other dogs that front up to them on that note you will be buying them a new dog mine a big soffty with us and people just not other dogs help that helps


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

girlsnotgray said:


> Not to be rude but whats wrong with american bulldogs and olde tyme bulldogs? Yes they can be boisterous and in the wrong hands could go wrong but the OP has already said they want to research it as much as possible before they get the dog. I dont agree with the whole "its no good as your first dog- you dont have enough experience argument" if you seek the help of a trainer from the start and make your choices wisely when it comes to the litter then i dont see what the problem is. The first dog I had when I moved out of the family home was a rottie, and we didnt have any problems. Of course people pick dogs they like the look of, why else would dogs like pugs/pekinese exist!


 
There is nothing wrong with any of those breeds. I didnt say that all of those breeds were unsuitable for novice owners at all :whistling2: But certainly dogs like a Czech wolfdog and an akita can be a very dangerous dog in the wrong hands (ie an inexperienced owner).

IMO you should pick a dog that matches your home, lifestyle and experience. Make a list based on that and THEN pick the one you like. Those dogs listed vary so wildly in their requirements that i can only assume the OP has just seen dogs s/he liked the look of and listed for peoples opinions of them.


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

Tazer said:


> Ok, I've put up with the knitpicking, but sorry that I find down right offencive, how dare you, who don't know me from bloody Addam, even suggest that I'd pick a dog on its appearance alone, you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.
> 
> If I was anywhere near the complete useless tool you seem to want to believe I am, then don't you think I'd have just gone out and got one of the breeds already, rather then devote hours of my time to learning about them, and putting up with crap like this, which, isn't helping anyone btw.
> 
> ...


I think you are being a little sensitive. You asked for advice and opinions on picking a dog for you and that is what i am giving you based with my hands on experience with a good number of the breeds on your list. If you dont want to take it that is fine, but dont post on a public forum asking for advice if you are going to get upset when you get an opinion you dont like :whistling2:

I have read a lot of information on wolfdog crosses, i would never own one myself as they are generally riddled with health problems, i believe epilepsy is a particular problem with NIs and Utonagons. You have to find a very good breeder who religiously health tests and keeps a track of all the pups they sell, and those are sadly few and far between. But i stand by what i said, the breeder cannot breed a domestic dog with a wild animal (wolf) and sell to the dogs as that without having appropriate licencing for them and the new owners. If they were doing it without telling people then that is terrible. 

I dont feel the need to research czech wolfdogs in any great depth as i am not the one wanting to buy one... but thanks for the link, im sure that will come in handy for anyone else who comes across this thread who might be thinking of one!

If you feel i am talking down to you then i am sorry. But being actively involved in the dog world i see the other end of the story where someone goes out and buys a dog like many of those you have listed, because they like the look of them and think that their limited experienced with dogs will allow them to cope with the breed they choose. Then when the dog matures and they have struggled to cope with and it bites a person or attacks another dog, or is just a nightmare to live with because they have been unable to train it properly, they end up giving it to a rescue to deal with or having it put to sleep. These people started off with all the good intentions in the world and often did plenty of reading about the dogs, but actually having the dogs in your home and dealing with day to day is a different story in many cases. Im sure you will end up being a wonderful owner with whichever breed you choose, but it is well worth spending the time not only reading things on the internet, but visiting breeders, meeting the dogs, walking them and interacting with them and seeing what a full grown adult dog of that breed is really like. An akita for example, stunning dogs that i really love! Can make fantastic family pets and most owners live very happily with their dogs. However, at a show i was at a couple of years ago the very top breeder here in the UK and america had to keep his dog on a very short lead and not loosen it at any time as it was pulling and straining to get to my dog. He said to me that if he loosened the lead the dog would kill mine in a second. This went on to be a top stud dog, so whether its normal for the breed or not is irrelevant, if people are going to breed from these dogs it could well lead to problems for people who buy the pups.

Also, you mention that you have lots of lovely walking around you. Presumably you realise that a few of the dogs you have listed are not trustworthy off the lead? So that is another thing to bear in mind when making a choice. I have a sighthound so she is not 100% trustworthy off lead either, but i am very lucky to have a large, fully enclosed dog park directly behind my house so she gets a good long run every day.

I know you have found my opinions to be condescending or whatever, but i do have very relevant experience of a number of the breeds you were asking about, so maybe at least read what i have to say and take it in rather than just dismiss it and have a tantrum. And then maybe look into what i have said for yourself, speak to breeders of the breeds you are interested in and see what they have to say.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> There is nothing wrong with any of those breeds. I didnt say that all of those breeds were unsuitable for novice owners at all But certainly dogs like a Czech wolfdog and an akita can be a very dangerous dog in the wrong hands (ie an inexperienced owner).
> 
> IMO you should pick a dog that matches your home, lifestyle and experience. Make a list based on that and THEN pick the one you like. Those dogs listed vary so wildly in their requirements that i can only assume the OP has just seen dogs s/he liked the look of and listed for peoples opinions of them.


 
No, didn't just pick them at random, but yes they are a varied bunch, but that is just my personality, varried. From what I've read and been told, and from experiences I've had with some of them, however limmited they may be to you, I can say, that each one in temperament has something I like.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> I think you are being a little sensitive. You asked for advice and opinions on picking a dog for you and that is what i am giving you based with my hands on experience with a good number of the breeds on your list. If you dont want to take it that is fine, but dont post on a public forum asking for advice if you are going to get upset when you get an opinion you dont like
> 
> I have read a lot of information on wolfdog crosses, i would never own one myself as they are generally riddled with health problems, i believe epilepsy is a particular problem with NIs and Utonagons. You have to find a very good breeder who religiously health tests and keeps a track of all the pups they sell, and those are sadly few and far between. But i stand by what i said, the breeder cannot breed a domestic dog with a wild animal (wolf) and sell to the dogs as that without having appropriate licencing for them and the new owners. If they were doing it without telling people then that is terrible.
> 
> ...


I found that one to be far more usefull thanks. 

It wasn't your differing opinion that got me, I enjoy a good old debate now and then, I just felt you were prejudging me, and that is something I really do have a problem with, won't deny it, as people do it quite a lot, and after a while, or years as it is, you can prob understand that I may take issue with it. 

We also have a large full enclosed area within one of the woodland parks I've refered to, which is where I'd be doing off lead training anyway, so if the new dog couldn't ever be allowed off out of that area, it wouldn't be to much trouble. 

I agree, the wolf lookalike world certainly is a mine field to try to navigate. 

So, removing the csv and wolf look alikes for a mo, what are your views based on your experience of the other breeds. E.g. how did you find them temperament wise.


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

I was not intentionally pre-judging you as such, but with the nature of forums, where only limited info is given we do have to make a judgement of someone to be able to give them advice. The idea (i thought!) was to then continue the discussion if people dont agree with what was said.

With your list, the one i would go for would be the Dogue De Bordeaux. I have always wanted one of those though so i am biased lol They have wonderful temperments and make great family pets. They are generally more mellow than some of the mastiff breeds and the ones i have seen in the UK have brilliant temperments. Again, you have to do your research with breeders, i've heard of a few who's hips have gone by a year old so you'd have to make sure the parents and previous generations are tested.

I also like the Swedish Valhunds. Not a breed i have too much experience of myself though i have a friend who breeds them. If i had your list to choose from i'd definately look into them more - big dogs in a little body, very fiesty - great little characters!

GSDs again can be great family dogs if raised correctly, they are incredibly loyal. We almost bought one of those before we got our first lab but went for the labs because of the family dog reputation lol Everyone knows they have hip problems in some lines so again - research lol

And i also love Dorset Old Thyme Bulldogs. Again, not a breed i have had much experience with so i dont know the ins and outs of their characters, but from what i've been told from people who own them or know them they are wonderful characters! 

For my personal sitution and tastes i would avoid the cane corse, akita, Czech Wolfdog and wolfdog type crosses but your situation would of course, differ to mine. I have small dogs and other pets including parrots which i would trust the more "wild" type dogs around too much, and also i have dogs to show so they need to be KC recognised.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Myjb23 said:


> I was not intentionally pre-judging you as such, but with the nature of forums, where only limited info is given we do have to make a judgement of someone to be able to give them advice. The idea (i thought!) was to then continue the discussion if people dont agree with what was said.


Oh, well, its done now, water under the bridge and all that jaz, no use going over it again and again.



> With your list, the one i would go for would be the Dogue De Bordeaux. I have always wanted one of those though so i am biased lol They have wonderful temperments and make great family pets. They are generally more mellow than some of the mastiff breeds and the ones i have seen in the UK have brilliant temperments. Again, you have to do your research with breeders, i've heard of a few who's hips have gone by a year old so you'd have to make sure the parents and previous generations are tested.


The couple I met when working in canine hydrotherapy, I was impressed with, they were really calm and chilled out when ever they came in. 



> I also like the Swedish Valhunds. Not a breed i have too much experience of myself though i have a friend who breeds them. If i had your list to choose from i'd definately look into them more - big dogs in a little body, very fiesty - great little characters!


My only thing with the vallhund is the fact it is a small dog, and I'm just not used to such smallness lol. But they do sound lovely. Reminds me of training class, when we swapped dogs, I ended up with a chi, and the chi owner got 1 of my labs, was quite funny, the chi owner was asking how the hell I managed with such a large dog, and I was pretty much thinking the same ref her small one. Though a vallhund is bigger than a chi, so I think I'd get used to it.



> GSDs again can be great family dogs if raised correctly, they are incredibly loyal. We almost bought one of those before we got our first lab but went for the labs because of the family dog reputation lol Everyone knows they have hip problems in some lines so again - research lol


Yeah, when we got our first dog, me and me dad wanted a gsd, but we ended up with a lab, and then got another one, and another one... you see where I'm going. Don't get me wrong, I love my labs, and they'll always have a special place with me, but I just feel its time to move on to another breed. Me aunt has had gsds as long as I can remember and they've all been fab dogs, though one had to be pts aged 2 with hd. 



> And i also love Dorset Old Thyme Bulldogs. Again, not a breed i have had much experience with so i dont know the ins and outs of their characters, but from what i've been told from people who own them or know them they are wonderful characters!


Yeah, I've heard similar things ref otbds. 



> For my personal sitution and tastes i would avoid the cane corse, akita, Czech Wolfdog and wolfdog type crosses but your situation would of course, differ to mine. I have small dogs and other pets including parrots which i would trust the more "wild" type dogs around too much, and also i have dogs to show so they need to be KC recognised.


[/QUOTE]

You see, I don't have small dogs, and apart from reptiles which are kept separate from the dogs anyway, it wouldn't be a problem for me, and I don't plan on showing, so that isn't a concidderation for me either. Though saying that, I've been told that the csv at least maybe kc reg soon anyway.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Myjb23 said:


> I think you would struggle to find a Czech Wolfdog in the UK, you may have to look into importing.


Free ads are full of them and their crosses - and can't imagine any reputable breeder exporting them now as those in the UK are being crossed with allsorts ;( Shame as they are nice dogs - I had one here to stay for a few weeks


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Vallhunds are lovely dogs - you can do anything with them - they LOVE training and can excel at agilitya nd enjoy obedience - one day I will have one  One of my best friends was a breeder


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## Myjb23 (Oct 14, 2009)

Tazer said:


> You see, I don't have small dogs, and apart from reptiles which are kept separate from the dogs anyway, it wouldn't be a problem for me, and I don't plan on showing, so that isn't a concidderation for me either. Though saying that, I've been told that the csv at least maybe kc reg soon anyway.


They are recognised by most other kennel clubs, they win at group level on the continent. Sadly our KC is incredibly fussy (its probably a good thing really, unless you own the dogs i guess :lol2: ) and have strict standards a breed must reach in the UK before getting recognition. It could be 10 or 20 years before the KC will even do that, and if its true what JulieNoob says about them being crossed with everything in sight then this is only going to delay their KC recognition even further. Unfortunately there are far too many unscrupulous breeders jumping on the "wolfdog" bandwagon because they are in fashion at the moment. Its a shame for the good breeders who have been building up their lines for years.

Dont be put off by the Valhunds because they are smaller cos trust me, they dont know that :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Just a small suggestion...if you're finding the DOG advice on a reptile forum a bit naff, why not try a DOG forum? : victory::lol2:

You are much more likely to come across dog owners, maybe owners of those particular breeds, or those experienced with them, on a dog forum than a reptile forum, even if it is the "other pets" bit. Most people here have reptiles, most people on dog forums have dogs.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

well i have only had Leo (american bulldog) for a few months now...i got him at 6 months old, he is a fantastic dog and i love him to bits...but will say his sheer size and power (he was 36kg and taller than a large labradoor at 7 months old!) is making the usual puppy side of things MUCH harder work than with either of my other two dogs (staffy and an english bull terrier) he is however very intelligent! but also stubborn!...he is learning new ways to be naughty every day! and at the moment we are just about surviving his teenage ways!.....but when you sit and have a cuddle with him, and see in his eyes just how much he really wants to please you and be with you its hard to stay mad with him (unless you are my other half that is lol) from people i have spoken to, and from what i have read it is very much the same with american bulldogs as with most bull breeds, you just have to survive the teenage stage as best you can! and then like fine wine they just get better and better as they age!...he is very good with our children, but sometimes forgets his strength and has almost knocked our 3 year old daughter over a couple of times (totaly un-intentional) and you do have to be VERY firm with him, but all in all he is a loving family dog...and (to my other halfs frustration! lol) i wouldnt part with him now for anything!


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys. 

I'm not so much put off by the vallhunds size, more than I'd find it a bit odd to start with, having a small dog.

Like I said, the csv has from what I've read, and been told been crossed with wolves, tamaskans, northern inuits, gsds and prob others I'm not aware of, it really is a great shame, and the same with the saarloos. Those responsible for introducing them to the uk, have done nothing but hinder, or possibly even destroyed their chances of becoming established. All for what, a quick £££, which has comeback to bite them in the arse, as people have found out, that they're not the perfect pet for most, and they are now appearing up for rehoming, on a near dayly basis and the litters don't seem to be selling as quickly, which hopefully, means that the fad will fade soon, and that those responsible people, can then move in to try to clean up the mess.

I usually post on dog forums however, thought I'd come on here for a change, widen the net as it were. and call me odd, but I don't like starting similar threads in different places at the same time, I like to have some time before I start repeating myself again, just one of my little quirks I guess. Though now you've got me thinking about it, I may just have to start one elsewhere.

At least I've now got the list down to just 5 breeds, after giving myself a verry stern talking to lol. 

So here is the new list.

1. Gsd
2. Beauceron
3. Vallhund
4. Dorset old time bulldog
5. Akita


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## temerist (Feb 1, 2009)

1. Gsd
2. Beauceron
3. Vallhund
4. Dorset old time bulldog
5. Akita


number 1 or number 4

think you would struggle to find a beauceron in this country


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

There are a couple of beauceron breeders now in the uk, though the breed certainly is uncommon.

When speaking to the woman on the breed stand at crufts last year, she said that there was about 130 in the uk at that time.

I've got no idea as to how many old time bulldogs there are though, and theres certainly no shortage of gsds.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

I have 2 friends with beaucerons - awesome dogs but need to be busy 

I like them very much but the double dew claws freak me out somewhat!!!!


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, the double dewclaws are quite weird. 

Would the beauceron enjoy activities like obedience, protection/shutzhund, flyball etc, as I'd def be conciddering doing something like that if they'd enjoy it.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Tazer said:


> obedience, protection/shutzhund, flyball etc, as I'd def be conciddering doing something like that if they'd enjoy it.


Sorry to add to your list but if your going to do the above what about *Austrailan cattle dog*.Basic breeds that went into them Smooth coat boarder collie,Bull terrier,Dingo:2thumb:.All that you said above they'll do with easy if your the right owner for them.There not every where in the uk but they are here.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

*swoon* cattle dogs are beautiful, wish I had the energy to keep up with one!:flrt:


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Cattle dogs are gorgeous. Great characters from what I've read. 

I did briefly look at the breed a while ago, will have to look them up again, and do some more researching, try to meet some etc.

The activities I'm thinking of arn't definate yet, as it depends on the breed, individual dog, and wether or not there is anywhere round here that does them.

I asume there will be, I just don't know where to look.


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## Carla-Marie (Mar 5, 2010)

The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull. 

Of all the breeds you mentioned its my personal opinion that you can't beat a GSD. As a life long owner of this breed I'd recommend them to anyone. 

Given the right discipline and socialisation they make amazing pets, are loyal, great with kids and other dogs and are very trainable.

GSD'S are widely available across the UK but be careful. There has been a lot of inbreeding with GSD'S because they are so popular. I'd find a recommended breeder and would never pick a kennel bred puppy as a family pet. 

They will need 2 good walks a day (at least 45 mins)

Good Luck!


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Carla-Marie said:


> The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull.


what complete and utter nonsense! an american bull dog is NOT a banned breed! and they are NOT pitbulls......


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Carla-Marie said:


> The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull.
> 
> Good Luck!


 
f:censor:ing bull:censor:. , considering you make the effort to actually refer to the DDA im assuming that you cant read or are simply blind? They are NOT on the DDA.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*american bulldog*



Carla-Marie said:


> The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull.


 my 75 year old mother has an american bulldog,a big mastif like lump,nothing like a pitbull and certainly not banned.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Tazer said:


> obedience,flyball etc,(Agility).


What about the good old Boarder collie ?.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Carla-Marie said:


> The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull.


The American pit *bull terrier* is a banned breed in the UK.









The American *bull dog* is a differant breed and is *not* banned in the UK.


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## clairebear1984 (Dec 13, 2009)

Carla-Marie said:


> *The American Bulldog is classed as a banned breed in the UK (S1 Dangerous Dogs Act 91) Call it what you want but its a Pit Bull. *
> 
> Of all the breeds you mentioned its my personal opinion that you can't beat a GSD. As a life long owner of this breed I'd recommend them to anyone.
> 
> ...


you on steroids or something??????????????

do u not know your breeds, amercian bulldogs are certainly not pitbulls hahahahaha and also american bulldogs are not a banned breed. we only have 4 atm that are banned and there not one of them. dear some ppl should be banned hahahahaha


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

An American bulldog is not illegal I own a olde tyme bully he's the nuts so good il post pics in a minute I'd defanatly recomend them he's a very good guard dog very alrady capable of non stop energy and is so placid with kids and me and the missus, he's also good off a lead and was very easy to litter train it only took a few weeks although he is a little fiery with other dogs he only barks at them but has had a few thing attack him and hasn't retailiated he's 7months old and 18inch to tge shoulder and just under 4stone


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## clairebear1984 (Dec 13, 2009)

any dog in my opinion will guard a houe tbh. i know my little dog would he be the yapper while jack b the muscle.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

6 week old olde tyme bully winston









6month old









to be fair there not a massive breed and hes only a little bigger then ur averidge staff at the minute i expect him to be about 70pound in weight hes 18inch to the shoulder at 7months old and about 24kilos hes mum was only 18inch and dad 19ins to the shoulder id happily put u in touch with the breeder hes in norfolk,im in london not sure how far from u that is but ur more then welcome to come meet my dog to see what u think other then the snoring there perfect dogs and he has a quality charector hes very lazy and no matter what hes doing i can usealy passive him by strocking hes belly hell stop and lay down everytime.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

yeh maybe but my dog as soon as he hears a noise will scan the house tail errect and as soon as gthe doors go hes barks runs to the door and looks vicous and although as soon as anyone actualy comes in his body wags and his realy soppy hes very alert and leages ahead of any staff my family owned in the past for guarding. he nose when to be on guard and naturally is very good at it.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)




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## clairebear1984 (Dec 13, 2009)

so does my boxer, i know that cos wen am coming in from a night out and doesnt realise its me and things its a burgular hahahaha have had to shout that its me


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## clairebear1984 (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> yeh maybe but my dog as soon as he hears a noise will scan the house tail errect and as soon as gthe doors go hes barks runs to the door and looks vicous and although as soon as anyone actualy comes in his body wags and his realy soppy hes very alert and leages ahead of any staff my family owned in the past for guarding. he nose when to be on guard and naturally is very good at it.


is that y u got that breed, cos looks viouerous, co all u do i tell us how big it is and how much it weights


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

gazz said:


> The American pit *bull terrier* is a banned breed in the UK.
> image
> 
> The American *bull dog* is a differant breed and is *not* banned in the UK.
> image


:lol2:...i LOVE that american bully pic! looks like he is abot to sneeze! can almost see him thinking "hold it in man, you can do it...not in front of a crowd" :lol2:


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## CrawlingRuby (Dec 28, 2009)

GSD or Douge De Bordo
CR


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> 6 week old olde tyme bully winston
> image
> 
> 6month old
> ...


Your dog is a stunner.

Thank you verry much for the offer, and the contact details would be most appreciated as well. 

I live in the North East, so it is quite a distance to travel.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

CrawlingRuby said:


> GSD or Douge De Bordo
> CR


 
you mean one of these ?

dogue de bordeaux???


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

gazz said:


> What about the good old Boarder collie ?.
> 
> image
> image
> ...


 
Lovely dog, looks like they're having fun.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Tazer said:


> Your dog is a stunner.
> 
> Thank you verry much for the offer, and the contact details would be most appreciated as well.
> 
> I live in the North East, so it is quite a distance to travel.


jays dog is a stunner an his breeder seems like a lovely person too have had conversations with him about his dogs 

he is deffo in my eyes a proper old tyme bully :flrt::flrt:


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

gazz said:


> The American pit bull terrier is a banned breed in the UK.
> image
> 
> The American bull dog is a differant breed and is not banned in the UK.
> image



Gorgeous.

Maybe they were getting american bulldog confused with american staffordshire terrier, as they are as far as I'm aware just the akc show variety of the apbt, and would certainly come under section 1 type.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Tazer said:


> Gorgeous.
> 
> Maybe they were getting american bulldog confused with american staffordshire terrier, as they are as far as I'm aware just the akc show variety of the apbt, and would certainly come under section 1 type.


Amstaff and American pit bull terrier are two differant breeds.The Amstaff is to far removed from the American pit bull terrier to be considered the same breed.Amstaff has early UK Staffordshire bull terrier blood.American pit bull terrier does not.

I've been waiting to use this.Follow the coloured arrows for the link between the breeds.


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## Carla-Marie (Mar 5, 2010)

Section 1 and 4B of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 relate to dogs of the type known as the pit bull terrier. The High Court has decided that for a dog to be a pit bull type, it must have a substantial number of the physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier. These characteristics are listed in a number of places, and probably the most comprehensive is the American Dog Breeders Association's Basis of Conformation for the American Pit Bull Terrier. This is a functional standard which describes the ideal, and so the dog does not have to conform in every detail to be regarded as a pit bull type.

Your dog does not have to be a 'pedigree' pit bull to be governed by the laws. Essentially any dog sharing a substantial number of physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier can fall into the 'dogs bred for fighting' section of the act. This can and has included American Bulldogs, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers, cross breeds and a number of other breeds. There is plenty of Case Law out there in relation to such dogs being made subject of destruction or control orders. Any owner of an American Bulldog will know that their dog does share a substantial number of physical characteristics. 

Such dogs should only be placed/owned by responsible, knowledgeable and experienced people which sadly is not always the case.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Carla-Marie said:


> Section 1 and 4B of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 relate to dogs of the type known as the pit bull terrier. The High Court has decided that for a dog to be a pit bull type, it must have a substantial number of the physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier. These characteristics are listed in a number of places, and probably the most comprehensive is the American Dog Breeders Association's Basis of Conformation for the American Pit Bull Terrier. This is a functional standard which describes the ideal, and so the dog does not have to conform in every detail to be regarded as a pit bull type.
> 
> Your dog does not have to be a 'pedigree' pit bull to be governed by the laws. Essentially any dog sharing a substantial number of physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier can fall into the 'dogs bred for fighting' section of the act. This can and has included American Bulldogs, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers, cross breeds and a number of other breeds. There is plenty of Case Law out there in relation to such dogs being made subject of destruction or control orders. Any owner of an American Bulldog will know that their dog does share a substantial number of physical characteristics.
> 
> Such dogs should only be placed/owned by responsible, knowledgeable and experienced people which sadly is not always the case.


Yes but the American bull dog is not banned.It's the American pit bull terrier that's out right banned.

If you have a American pit bull terrier it will be taken off you and you wouldn't get it back wheather it's a friendly dog or not.It a American pit bull terrier and that's is that.And you'll get stung for haveing it in the first place no matter why you had it.

If you have a American bull dog,Staffie,Bull terrier or a cross type of these types'etc and it is taken off you.If the dog is deem safe and it fully clear it a pet and nothing more you'll get it back.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Carla-Marie said:


> Section 1 and 4B of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 relate to dogs of the type known as the pit bull terrier. The High Court has decided that for a dog to be a pit bull type, it must have a substantial number of the physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier. These characteristics are listed in a number of places, and probably the most comprehensive is the American Dog Breeders Association's Basis of Conformation for the American Pit Bull Terrier. This is a functional standard which describes the ideal, and so the dog does not have to conform in every detail to be regarded as a pit bull type.
> 
> Your dog does not have to be a 'pedigree' pit bull to be governed by the laws. Essentially any dog sharing a substantial number of physical characteristics of a pit bull terrier can fall into the 'dogs bred for fighting' section of the act. This can and has included American Bulldogs, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers, cross breeds and a number of other breeds. There is plenty of Case Law out there in relation to such dogs being made subject of destruction or control orders. Any owner of an American Bulldog will know that their dog does share a substantial number of physical characteristics.
> 
> Such dogs should only be placed/owned by responsible, knowledgeable and experienced people which sadly is not always the case.


i own an american bulldog, and compared to a true american pitbul he is nothing alike! for starters he is larger boned, and heavier built, his head and muzzle are much more like a mastff/bulldog, his tempremant as with most american bulldogs is very different also, american bull dogs are bred more as a working/guard/family dog....where as pit bulls were/are bred for fighting, my staffy has more in common with a pit bull than my american bulldog...have you ever met an american bulldog in person? if you had you would clearly see the physical and tempremant differences...in america sadly a lot of "pit bull" breeders do breed american bulldogs with pitbulls to produce larger heavier bodied dogs with much larger heads, but these are not pure american bulldogs...

how many american pit bulls look like this?....


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

gazz said:


> Amstaff and American pit bull terrier are two differant breeds.The Amstaff is to far removed from the American pit bull terrier to be considered the same breed.Amstaff has early UK Staffordshire bull terrier blood.American pit bull terrier does not.
> 
> I've been waiting to use this.Follow the coloured arrows for the link between the breeds.
> image


 
Thanks for that, it was verry interesting.

They would still be classed as type though sadly, god I hate the dda.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Tazer said:


> Thanks for that, it was verry interesting.
> 
> They would still be classed as type though sadly, god I hate the dda.


 
see i have never heard of an american bulldog being pulled in as a pit bull "type" they really are very far removed...as i say, they are MUCH closer in physical appearence to mastiffs than pit bull type dogs generaly...a lot of longer legged staffordshire bull terriers and staffy crosses do get easily (yet wrongly) assosiated with pit bulls...but honestly anyone who knows anything about dogs would be hard pushed to mistake an american bull dog as a pit bull.....i`m with you as well, the dda is a load of :censor:....as in Gazz`s signature...PEOPLE make bad dogs, very few (if any) are born that way...sadly all the "status symbol" owners of bull breed dogs ruin it for those of us who adore bull breeds for what they really are! loving, loyal and affectionate family dogs....


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

On the subject of the dda, has anyone else completed that consultation questionaire, on the defra site. 

I suggest strongly that anyone who owns dogs, especially bullbreeds, as theyarn't popular at the moment, takes the time to do it. 

As they are asking about reforming or altering the dda, to either:

Extend section 1 to include other breeds, or remove it all together.

Alteration or removal of the exemption index.

Extend section 3 to include private property, where your dog and mine have a right to be. 

Others include:

Dog control notices.
Compulsary third party insurance, for some or all breeds.
Compulsary microchipping, for some or all breeds.

Consultation on dangerous dogs


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Ian.g said:


> see i have never heard of an american bulldog being pulled in as a pit bull "type" they really are very far removed...as i say, they are MUCH closer in physical appearence to mastiffs than pit bull type dogs generaly...a lot of longer legged staffordshire bull terriers and staffy crosses do get easily (yet wrongly) assosiated with pit bulls...but honestly anyone who knows anything about dogs would be hard pushed to mistake an american bull dog as a pit bull.....i`m with you as well, the dda is a load of ....as in Gazz`s signature...PEOPLE make bad dogs, very few (if any) are born that way...sadly all the "status symbol" owners of bull breed dogs ruin it for those of us who adore bull breeds for what they really are! loving, loyal and affectionate family dogs....


 
I was on about the amstaff, sorry should have made that clearer.

I agree, there isn't much similarity between an abd and an apbt.


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## doc4eva (Mar 9, 2010)

i have a bully american bulldog so im gonna be bias and say go for this breed
my dogs a rescue dog yet hes a sweetheart
they are fantastic with kids and make great family dogs, but are intimidatin enough to keep off intruders and trouble makers when out a walk:2thumb:


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## doc4eva (Mar 9, 2010)

your dog is gorgeous


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

i say american bulldog or gsd...but i'm bias


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

girlsnotgray said:


> Personally id say *cane corso* or american bully, good intelligent breeds which make great guards and protection dogs but are also very good with kids, *not generally dog agressive and make good pets.* Then again I love bullys so im biased :lol2:. The KC quiz is a bit odd. . . it came up with some odd recommendations for me for dogs that TOTALLY wouldnt fit in with our lifestyles!


LOL

um, you sure about that???

Dont mean to sound rude but have you ever handled a corso? I mean a real one not a crappy UK look-a-like.

Some pretty bad misinformation there.


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## clairebear1984 (Dec 13, 2009)

y wat are they really like. have always being interested in a cane corso


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