# First tortoise advice



## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

Hello, everyone. I'm Herm, based in Manchester UK and a complete novice to reptile-keeping. I've just got my own home and can finally keep a pet, and I'd like to keep a tortoise. I'd value some thoughts before I commit any further because some aspects of my setup may not be ideal.

First off, I'm trying to work out whether keeping a Mediterranean tortoise indoors is ok, or unfair on the animal. I have a flat with no garden and while there are large windows and plenty of daylight, it would be reliant on a lamp for its UV-B. Does this sound workable?

I'm thinking of a Hermann's on the basis that I've read that they're good for beginners, but am open to suggestions for a more suitable species that can cope with being overwintered at first (or doesn't hibernate).

I plan for its habitat to be a table like this, which I'd construct with family help. I would try to grow food in there as shown in the photos (do others find this seed mix good?), but I'm not sure if there would be enough for him or if I'd need to supplement, or perhaps keep a spare tray of greens as a window box and swap them out regularly. Unfortunately there aren't many green spaces nearby where I can trespass and make away with their weeds! 

Any obvious problems with this setup so far? I've liked tortoises ever since reading Esio Trot as a child and want to live with one, but the animal's welfare is more important than my yen for chelonian company and I don't want to adopt a child I can't bring up right. 

Thank you for any advice.


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Hi,
Med tortoises need to be outside and hibernated over winter really. You need a tropical species, as they don't hibernate. I reccomend red foots, you can Pm me for info about them.:2thumb:
EDIT: Hang on, just read over again and realise you have no garden at all, don't you have even a yard? If you can't provide some outside accesss it isn't right for a tortoise. You could always do some conservation work with them if you want to be with torts.


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## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks Flintus,

Yes, I have no garden. I'd be able to give him balcony time but only when I was there to supervise.


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Herm said:


> Thanks Flintus,
> 
> Yes, I have no garden. I'd be able to give him balcony time but only when I was there to supervise.


Does the balcony get plenty of sunlight. Couldn't you create some enclosure on the balcony filled with soil?


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## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

hi sorry to hijack your thread 
I am asking for a friend who is getting his girlfriend there 1st tortoise. For her b/day in Oct and doncaster is coming up so may get one there but

i have no ideas as new to reps my self .
what should he get?
what types are out there that he can get and what are the differncess?
he does have a garden and its there own house so a table top pen is ok. what lights etc .
all info greatly recived thanks


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

wezza309 said:


> hi sorry to hijack your thread
> I am asking for a friend who is getting his girlfriend there 1st tortoise. For her b/day in Oct and doncaster is coming up so may get one there but
> 
> i have no ideas as new to reps my self .
> ...


It depends what you're looking for really, would you like a hibernating species? Do you want it to just eat weeds? Do you want it to eat weeds and grasses? Do you want it to eat fruit, weeds, and a bit of protein? What size space do you have available? There is no easy tort, and your lifestyle should cater for the one you choose.


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## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

FLINTUS said:


> Does the balcony get plenty of sunlight. Couldn't you create some enclosure on the balcony filled with soil?


The balcony gets light, yes. And that's a good question - I could find a way to construct an enclosure out there, I suppose. But running a wire for the heat lamp out there would be problematic and I would be concerned about leaving him out all day - I suppose it would have to be meshed and locked for my peace of mind.


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Herm said:


> The balcony gets light, yes. And that's a good question - I could find a way to construct an enclosure out there, I suppose. But running a wire for the heat lamp out there would be problematic and I would be concerned about leaving him out all day - I suppose it would have to be meshed and locked for my peace of mind.


Hi, 
You'd need a base and then sides about 2 ft/3 ft high. Cover the top with wire. You don't need a heat lamp when outside and with a tropical species you wouldn't need a heated kennel or something for night as you'd keep him/her inside. If you want info about red foots(a tropical species) just PM me.


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## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

You've been so helpful, Flintus, thank you. I may well take you up on that red foot advice, since so far I've been reading about med species and I know red foots have different dietary requirements. They are beautiful little torts and I suspect I could easily fall for one quite hard...


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Herm said:


> You've been so helpful, Flintus, thank you. I may well take you up on that red foot advice, since so far I've been reading about med species and I know red foots have different dietary requirements. They are beautiful little torts and I suspect I could easily fall for one quite hard...


The thing with med torts and desert torts is hibernation. They have to be hibernated and really need to be permanently outside, so it's up to you really. Red foots do have a wider diet however there are more people keeping Hermann's so more advice is available. Where do you live as I might be able to reccomend breeders?


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## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm based in Manchester, like my OP says.  Near a reptile shop too, so good for supplies.

About keeping a red foot outside, though - you say he wouldn't need a heater during the day? Does that go just for sunny days or were you meaning all weathers, even during winter?


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Herm said:


> I'm based in Manchester, like my OP says.  Near a reptile shop too, so good for supplies.
> 
> About keeping a red foot outside, though - you say he wouldn't need a heater during the day? Does that go just for sunny days or were you meaning all weathers, even during winter?


Above 15 usually. In the winter you'd keep him inside in a decent enclosure. With a Horsfield they can tolerate 10 or above and then you'd hibernate in winter-so they'd sleep outside normally. The majority of the Meditteranean species should be out 24/7 in the summer and then hibernated in the winter where as with a red foot or similar species you'd put them out in nice weather only. Manchester has plenty of tortoises needing homes, I'm sure there'll be rescue centres or you could buy from a breeder. Try not to use pet shops as they will try to sell you things which aren't right generally. Have a think would you prefer a hibernating tortoise or not?


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## tapirgirl19 (Sep 1, 2012)

I have a Greek spur Thighed tortoise. He lives indoors and seems happy and is healthy. He has lived in both Vivariums and tortoise tables. He has an Arcadia D3 plus T5 12% UVB light set up. I bought a kit to grow leaves suitable for him however he also has Romaine lettuce, dark leafy greens, dandelion leaves and grated carrot to supplement this. He is given calcium and vitamin supplements. I try to take him outside when the weather allows, but he is quite happy being indoors as long as he has plenty of space to walk about, things to explore and leaves to eat. We don't hibernate him. His viv/table has a heated and lit area for him to bask. He loves climbing on things, so I have given him some rocks and various items for him to use for this. He has a covered area to sleep in and a large shallow water bowl to drink and 'bath' in. I think as long as you provide everything the tortoise needs it can be happy inside


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

tapirgirl19 said:


> I have a Greek spur Thighed tortoise. He lives indoors and seems happy and is healthy. He has lived in both Vivariums and tortoise tables. He has an Arcadia D3 plus T5 12% UVB light set up. I bought a kit to grow leaves suitable for him however he also has Romaine lettuce, dark leafy greens, dandelion leaves and grated carrot to supplement this. He is given calcium and vitamin supplements. I try to take him outside when the weather allows, but he is quite happy being indoors as long as he has plenty of space to walk about, things to explore and leaves to eat. We don't hibernate him. His viv/table has a heated and lit area for him to bask. He loves climbing on things, so I have given him some rocks and various items for him to use for this. He has a covered area to sleep in and a large shallow water bowl to drink and 'bath' in. I think as long as you provide everything the tortoise needs it can be happy inside


Sorry all tortoises need an outdoor enclosure. In the wild they would get natural sunlight, 1 hour is better than 12 hours UVB. Really you should try to stay off the shop stuff. Spur Thighs are a species which needs to be outside and could be outside 24/7 in the summer and probably should from a year upwards. He needs to hibernate as this is natural and you could have problems later on if you don't hibernate. Does he have pyramiding as this is a sign he's nott getting enough sunlight, calcium or humidity? What do you keep him on? A viv is not a good enviroment for a tortoise. Just out of interest why did you call him Hermann?


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## tapirgirl19 (Sep 1, 2012)

He was only in a viv when he was really small as at the time we had less space. I've seen tonnes of people keeping their tortoises in tortoise tables and all theirs seem perfectly happy and healthy and it was recommended to us to keep him like that. He doesn't have any pyramiding as he gets all the uv, vitamins and calcium he is requiring. I have also been told and after lots of research it is unnecessary for them to hibernate, as long as you provide sufficient UV. Substrate wise he is on a mix of grass pellets and areas of topsoil.
He is called Herman as he looks like he should have an old man's name and I picked the first one that came to mind - probably because I has also seen Herman's tortoises whilst researching.
If he did get pyramiding or seem unhealthy I definitely would change how he was kept but at the moment he is active, has a good appetite and is growing well. I do allow him out though, he just lives indoors. Thank you for your advice though :2thumb: I always appreciate hearing from other tortoise owners especially because there is a lot of different care information out there. 



FLINTUS said:


> Sorry all tortoises need an outdoor enclosure. In the wild they would get natural sunlight, 1 hour is better than 12 hours UVB. Really you should try to stay off the shop stuff. Spur Thighs are a species which needs to be outside and could be outside 24/7 in the summer and probably should from a year upwards. He needs to hibernate as this is natural and you could have problems later on if you don't hibernate. Does he have pyramiding as this is a sign he's nott getting enough sunlight, calcium or humidity? What do you keep him on? A viv is not a good enviroment for a tortoise. Just out of interest why did you call him Hermann?


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

tapirgirl19 said:


> He was only in a viv when he was really small as at the time we had less space. I've seen tonnes of people keeping their tortoises in tortoise tables and all theirs seem perfectly happy and healthy and it was recommended to us to keep him like that. He doesn't have any pyramiding as he gets all the uv, vitamins and calcium he is requiring. I have also been told and after lots of research it is unnecessary for them to hibernate, as long as you provide sufficient UV. Substrate wise he is on a mix of grass pellets and areas of topsoil.
> He is called Herman as he looks like he should have an old man's name and I picked the first one that came to mind - probably because I has also seen Herman's tortoises whilst researching.
> If he did get pyramiding or seem unhealthy I definitely would change how he was kept but at the moment he is active, has a good appetite and is growing well. I do allow him out though, he just lives indoors. Thank you for your advice though :2thumb: I always appreciate hearing from other tortoise owners especially because there is a lot of different care information out there.


Ha, yeah, was wondering about the name, different species!:lol2: Personally for a Spur Thigh(Testudo Graeca), I'd say plain topsoil is best as it is what they'd have in the wild. Lots of people do keep their torts in tables but really Testudo Graeca should be outside and they are fine with the weather unlike some tropical torts. Tables are better than vivs but the outside is still better, and he should really have at least a proper outdoor enclosure. The reason for hibernating is because it is their natural sense to do it and they can become overfed if eating in the winter, as well as having many health/age benefits. It doesn't really make a difference to the shell(providing the diet, humidity is high, adequate UVB and temps are all correct and provided) though, but it is natural. Could you give me a link to your evidence for that? Did you get him from a breeder and do you know what sub-species he is? Have a poke around the shelled section, you'll pick up lots of tips.


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## Herm (Aug 14, 2012)

I've also read that it's possible to overwinter (not hibernate) normally-hibernating species every year, but I wasn't considering doing that as a long-term thing. I'd also read that even with a hibernating species, you are _supposed_ to overwinter them while they're young.

Hibernation does make me nervous (keeping my pet in the fridge is a bit of a mental leap) so a non-hibernating species sounds better for me. Be able to play with him all winter that way - and not worry all day about the fridge somehow dropping the temperature and killing him, breaking down and waking him up too early, etc etc etc... min-max thermometers notwithstanding!


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## FLINTUS (Feb 12, 2012)

Herm said:


> I've also read that it's possible to overwinter (not hibernate) normally-hibernating species every year, but I wasn't considering doing that as a long-term thing. I'd also read that even with a hibernating species, you are _supposed_ to overwinter them while they're young.
> 
> Hibernation does make me nervous (keeping my pet in the fridge is a bit of a mental leap) so a non-hibernating species sounds better for me. Be able to play with him all winter that way - and not worry all day about the fridge somehow dropping the temperature and killing him, breaking down and waking him up too early, etc etc etc... min-max thermometers notwithstanding!


Okay so non-hibernating best 2 species for a begginner which don't grow too large, relatively cheap, readily available and easy to get CB are Leopards and red foots, the first growing quite large still. There are also others which are a bit smaller, pancakes and Hingebacks for example but a lot are WC and they are not readily available. You will see Sulcatas as well quite often which grow massive, and indian stars which are slightly smaller than red foots but with a harder diet similar to a Leopard and with a very expensive purchase price. Your best bet is to do research on both of them, there are plenty of people needing homes for 5 year+ torts in and around Manchester, or you could buy a hatchling from a breeder.


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## Lorraineb (Sep 4, 2012)

I have a Herman tort and they are dead easy to look after as long as you keep temps and uv up they do not need to go to sleep over winter mine is 4 years old now had him since he was a year old xx


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Lorraineb said:


> I have a Herman tort and they are dead easy to look after as long as you keep temps and uv up they do not need to go to sleep over winter mine is 4 years old now had him since he was a year old xx


Out of interest, why do you not hibernate your tortoise?


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