# Are Atelopus species kept in captivity?



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi everyone, 

I am really curious as to if any members of the Atelopus (Harlequin Toads) genus are actually kept in Captivity? Does anyone actually know of any keepers that keep these species in the UK or is this genus predominantly unheard of in captivity? :hmm:

Cheers :2thumb:

Josh


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

You sometimes see wildcaught spumarius for sale.I think that Richie had some.From what I can understand they usually come in very high in male to female ratios and they are very difficult to breed in captivity.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I think Richie keeps or has kept them. As I understand it, *clean*, cool, moving water is a necessity for them- unlike most frogs that like it fairly static, as most come from fast highland streams. This is only stuff I've picked up over the years, though- no practical experience, whatsover! :lol2:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Thanks guys! 

I am just very very curious about it as I don't think I have ever seen a WC specimen let alone a CB one!! 
Would that be the A.s.hoogmoedi or A.h.nassaui Colin? 

I imagine them to need high Male to Female ratios like the Scaphiophyrne genus would need, S.gottlebei need at least 5.1.0 ratios at least to even consider breeding lol 

I bet they are very hard to keep happy considering their habitat in their distribution range, I would love to keep a species but I think it would require lots of space, noise and money to even make them happy! :/ Or am I completely wrong about this? 

Hopefully Richie will see this and have a comment, if not I shall give him a PM or VM haha :Na_Na_Na_Na: I am very intrigued as to why even Zoo's in the UK don't really have them considering the conservation status for most the genus!!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I have heard of tanks set up as fast-flowing streams by the Bartletts- with large, smooth rocks as the 'bank'- but again, this is all hearsay.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Quite a lot of dutch keepers keep them with varying success. The main problem they have that I have read (in DN magazine) is that when the male mounts the female he wont let go come what may, often leading to the loss of both frogs from starvation... Basically he wont let go until she's produced eggs, so if she doesn't...

Ade


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> I have heard of tanks set up as fast-flowing streams by the Bartletts- with large, smooth rocks as the 'bank'- but again, this is all hearsay.


Hmmm that would basically be what they would need in all honesty if you go by the footage in Life in Cold Blood with the A.zeteki species :/ I can see that being very *VERY* expensive and a very specialist species to be kept! 




Wolfenrook said:


> Quite a lot of dutch keepers keep them with varying success. The main problem they have that I have read (in DN magazine) is that when the male mounts the female he wont let go come what may, often leading to the loss of both frogs from starvation... Basically he wont let go until she's produced eggs, so if she doesn't...
> 
> Ade


Ahhh so would my search for information on the genus being kept lead me over the water then? Blimey, I can see why the success varies then if that happens quite often, So are there successful breeding programmes for many of the genus in the hands of the Dutch?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Hmmm that would basically be what they would need in all honesty if you go by the footage in Life in Cold Blood with the A.zeteki species :/ I can see that being very *VERY* expensive and a very specialist species to be kept!


Yep. I'm sure individual species vary a bit in what their ideal conditions would be- much like mantellas!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

MantellaMan said:


> Ahhh so would my search for information on the genus being kept lead me over the water then? Blimey, I can see why the success varies then if that happens quite often, So are there successful breeding programmes for many of the genus in the hands of the Dutch?


Well the article I read was about spumarias been bred, so yeah at least one Dutch guy has managed it. But yeah, I'd say a search on the Dutch forums may garner more useful information, possibly also the German ones. I remember Dutch Rana had some Spumarius on sale at the 2nd (and last) UK frog day, no idea if they were CB or WC though.

The article I read though basically said a large viv, with clean flowing water, and keeping the males and females seperate until they are ready to breed so as to stop randy males jumping onto females and entering amplexus for no good reason beyond the male feeling randy. You know what male anurans are like, they'll grab anything if they get horny. :lol2:

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Josh have a chat with James(terrarium supplies) A.s. barbortini,the purple one is in europe in captivity,I believe, as well as the yellow version Colin has mentioned. there seem to be difficulties to be sumounted with water,as Ron mentioned sustained amplexus/ovulation and getting the diatoms that the tads need. I love them,such stunning frogs/toads,but I know very very little about them. Maybe one day we might have a crack at them,but i feel in now way competent at this time plus,our set up doesn't lend itself to their needs.Searches on dendroboard will yield more info.

I can more than see why you're interested in them, just a tiny bit special these

best

Stu


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yep. I'm sure individual species vary a bit in what their ideal conditions would be- much like mantellas!


Very True! I suppose like with everything, most things require a bit (if not a lot) of variation :/ I imagine they must be quite an active species to keep!


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Well the article I read was about spumarias been bred, so yeah at least one Dutch guy has managed it. But yeah, I'd say a search on the Dutch forums may garner more useful information, possibly also the German ones. I remember Dutch Rana had some Spumarius on sale at the 2nd (and last) UK frog day, no idea if they were CB or WC though.
> 
> The article I read though basically said a large viv, with clean flowing water, and keeping the males and females seperate until they are ready to breed so as to stop randy males jumping onto females and entering amplexus for no good reason beyond the male feeling randy. You know what male anurans are like, they'll grab anything if they get horny. :lol2:
> 
> Ade


Oh right so least Captive breeding isn't unheard of then!! :2thumb: Fantastic to hear that! I shall take a butchers at FrogForum and a few others then asking the same question, thank you for that Ade!!  Has Dutch Rana ever come to one of the BAKs shows? 

Hmm do you happen to have the article still? Could you take a picture for me or anything if you do would be great to have a read of it!!  

Hahaha I think it's safe to say that Male Anurans definitely show that characteristic  haha


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Josh have a chat with James(terrarium supplies) A.s. barbortini,the purple one is in europe in captivity,I believe, as well as the yellow version Colin has mentioned. there seem to be difficulties to be sumounted with water,as Ron mentioned sustained amplexus/ovulation and getting the diatoms that the tads need. I love them,such stunning frogs/toads,but I know very very little about them. Maybe one day we might have a crack at them,but i feel in now way competent at this time plus,our set up doesn't lend itself to their needs.Searches on dendroboard will yield more info.
> 
> I can more than see why you're interested in them, just a tiny bit special these
> 
> ...


I'm not called Ron Stu. :lol2:

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

MantellaMan said:


> Oh right so least Captive breeding isn't unheard of then!! :2thumb: Fantastic to hear that! I shall take a butchers at FrogForum and a few others then asking the same question, thank you for that Ade!!  Has Dutch Rana ever come to one of the BAKs shows?
> 
> Hmm do you happen to have the article still? Could you take a picture for me or anything if you do would be great to have a read of it!!
> 
> Hahaha I think it's safe to say that Male Anurans definitely show that characteristic  haha


Rana CAN'T attend BAKS shows. We only have UK breeders selling animals at our meetings, we don't permit none UK breeders as we believe this is unfair to our own breeders. Also Rana is a commercial business too, not a hobbyist. So no, they don't attend BAKS. 

I can't take a photo of an article bud, as that would be a breech of copyright. You can order the magazine containing the article though from DN English magazine issue 1 > Gifkikkerportaal > Artikelen. : victory: You can read from the summary that they are still considered a frog for experts only though.

Ade


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Josh have a chat with James(terrarium supplies) A.s. barbortini,the purple one is in europe in captivity,I believe, as well as the yellow version Colin has mentioned. there seem to be difficulties to be sumounted with water,as Ron mentioned sustained amplexus/ovulation and getting the diatoms that the tads need. I love them,such stunning frogs/toads,but I know very very little about them. Maybe one day we might have a crack at them,but i feel in now way competent at this time plus,our set up doesn't lend itself to their needs.Searches on dendroboard will yield more info.
> 
> I can more than see why you're interested in them, just a tiny bit special these
> 
> ...



Awesome thanks Stu I shall give him a PM too and ask about it! :2thumb: Hmmm so there must be quite a few different species in the genus available then? Because thats already 2 more than I even expected there to be (I was actually prepared for "Josh don't be blooming silly!!" lmao). 

They are fantastic species in the genus, I have read a bit about them through journals and also in my copy of "Amphibians of Suriname" book which intrigued me even further with the genus! If you ever do have a go let me know I would be totally interested in seeing what you come up with, they are something I might one day feel completely competent and happy with keeping but for the moment Research Research research!!  

They really are a special genus of Anura, I have never thought of it until now as to why no Zoological collection has any specimens! You would think such a highly endangered genus would be kept in both collections private and zoological! 

Josh


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Rana CAN'T attend BAKS shows. We only have UK breeders selling animals at our meetings, we don't permit none UK breeders as we believe this is unfair to our own breeders. Also Rana is a commercial business too, not a hobbyist. So no, they don't attend BAKS.
> 
> I can't take a photo of an article bud, as that would be a breech of copyright. You can order the magazine containing the article though from DN English magazine issue 1 > Gifkikkerportaal > Artikelen. : victory: You can read from the summary that they are still considered a frog for experts only though.
> 
> Ade


Ahhh I see that's completely understandable then  

Thank you mate :notworthy: that's fair enough though but I shall order it and have a good old read of it  It really doesn't surprise me that this species is considered an "Expert Only" species to keep! The amount of work you would need to put into building the enclosure is big enough as it is, and that's not even mentioning the care of the individuals themselves! lol 

Josh


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Awesome thanks Stu I shall give him a PM too and ask about it! :2thumb: Hmmm so there must be quite a few different species in the genus available then? Because thats already 2 more than I even expected there to be (I was actually prepared for "Josh don't be blooming silly!!" lmao).
> 
> They are fantastic species in the genus, I have read a bit about them through journals and also in my copy of "Amphibians of Suriname" book which intrigued me even further with the genus! If you ever do have a go let me know I would be totally interested in seeing what you come up with, they are something I might one day feel completely competent and happy with keeping but for the moment Research Research research!!
> 
> ...


Atelopus Zetki has been bred in captivity Josh in zoological collections, don't quote me on this but I think they are secure now in captivity,the hurdle being getting them back to the wild,there was a pretty major effort exerted to save them from extinction,I've seen picture of a breeding set up somewhere,DB possibly.
Ha Ade,I was referring to Ron's "the second post",(clean water)trouble is slow typing plus doing other stuff,post landed after yours,which I hadn't seen, so out of context.Ha still made I chuckle though ,so my thanks for that:2thumb:

Stu


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Atelopus Zetki has been bred in captivity Josh in zoological collections, don't quote me on this but I think they are secure now in captivity,the hurdle being getting them back to the wild,there was a pretty major effort exerted to save them from extinction,I've seen picture of a breeding set up somewhere,DB possibly.
> Ha Ade,I was referring to Ron's "the second post",(clean water)trouble is slow typing plus doing other stuff,post landed after yours,which I hadn't seen, so out of context.Ha still made I chuckle though ,so my thanks for that:2thumb:
> 
> Stu


I know there has been a lot of work preventing the complete extinction of the species and the last known individuals were removed from their wild distribution range and that theCaptive Breeding Programmes run at the Smithsonian National Zoo in America but I haven't heard of such programmes with A.zeteki in the UK, which is something i really want to find out about with Zoo collections over here and if there are programmes for other species in the genus. (From what I can tell though there isn't any UK Zoo's with a breeding Programme for any species within it :/ lol Hopefully I might be surprised though - but if I find anything I will immediately post it here for you) 
Ooooo I shall check out DB then and take a ganders at this set up. :2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> I know there has been a lot of work preventing the complete extinction of the species and the last known individuals were removed from their wild distribution range and that theCaptive Breeding Programmes run at the Smithsonian National Zoo in America but I haven't heard of such programmes with A.zeteki in the UK, which is something i really want to find out about with Zoo collections over here and if there are programmes for other species in the genus. (From what I can tell though there isn't any UK Zoo's with a breeding Programme for any species within it :/ lol Hopefully I might be surprised though - but if I find anything I will immediately post it here for you)
> Ooooo I shall check out DB then and take a ganders at this set up. :2thumb:


Sorry mate I missed the UK bit,my bad,lack of sleep!! Good luck with your quest.the pictures may well have been the smithsonian,brain's not functioning.If i remember where I saw em you'll hear

Stu


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Sorry mate I missed the UK bit,my bad,lack of sleep!! Good luck with your quest.the pictures may well have been the smithsonian,brain's not functioning.If i remember where I saw em you'll hear
> 
> Stu


Haha no worries mate to be honest it's still good to find out about other European countries and in further abroad!! lol Stu have you seen my *Journals of Various Amphibian Species - Links to PDF files.*Thread? I put up two journals about Atelopus yesterday, both of them are really interesting!!  I was kinda shock that there was a Husbandry Sheet for A.zeteki if I am honest because I never thought they would be so openly available which made me think about if any Atelopus is kept in both zoo's and Privately! lol 

Thank you buddy, I shall not give up this little quest until I find out!! lol :2thumb:

Josh


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Haha no worries mate to be honest it's still good to find out about other European countries and in further abroad!! lol Stu have you seen my *Journals of Various Amphibian Species - Links to PDF files.*Thread? I put up two journals about Atelopus yesterday, both of them are really interesting!!  I was kinda shock that there was a Husbandry Sheet for A.zeteki if I am honest because I never thought they would be so openly available which made me think about if any Atelopus is kept in both zoo's and Privately! lol
> 
> Thank you buddy, I shall not give up this little quest until I find out!! lol :2thumb:
> 
> Josh


Yes I have seen some of the thread Josh,tis a good un you're to be commended on it,great work mate:no1I've been meaning to tell you that for a while now:Na_Na_Na_Na: The interweb gives us so much access to so much knowledge.It doesn't really suprise me about the Zetki husbandrary sheet,institutions have to share info . Mate as a kid,when those sod's weren't trying to educate me:whistling2: I had a pass,they did something special for kids at Paignton Zoo,it allowed access to their library.I used to sit there reading up on how to keep and breed everything from a neon tetra,to a rhino. Always makes me smile that they encouraged that in children and what we could learn,( you can see that scruffy kid going home...mum I wanna breed rhino's:lol2so I guess nowt's changed,just interweb,makes it even more available. Fortunately I liked phibs too........:whistling2:

Stu


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Here mate something for ya
Success in breeding endangered frogs!

Stu


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Yes I have seen some of the thread Josh,tis a good un you're to be commended on it,great work mate:no1I've been meaning to tell you that for a while now:Na_Na_Na_Na: The interweb gives us so much access to so much knowledge.It doesn't really suprise me about the Zetki husbandrary sheet,institutions have to share info . Mate as a kid,when those sod's weren't trying to educate me:whistling2: I had a pass,they did something special for kids at Paignton Zoo,it allowed access to their library.I used to sit there reading up on how to keep and breed everything from a neon tetra,to a rhino. Always makes me smile that they encouraged that in children and what we could learn,( you can see that scruffy kid going home...mum I wanna breed rhino's:lol2so I guess nowt's changed,just interweb,makes it even more available. Fortunately I liked phibs too........:whistling2:
> 
> Stu



Hahah thank you buddy, but you give me too much credit! After all I merely link up the thread with them and give my opinion of what they are like and that :lol2: But thank you mate, I shall continue to keep on adding to it everytime I have something of interest! : victory: 

The good ol' internet, it's a truly amazing idea I must admit without it none of us would be sharing information right now!! Thats pretty awesome that they did that for you though?! Blimey the amount of information that was available must of been amazing?! :O (Did you manage to breed them Rhino's yet mate?  haha ) 



soundstounite said:


> Here mate something for ya
> Success in breeding endangered frogs!
> 
> Stu


Awesome thanks mate I am just about to take a peek at it now!!  

Josh


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Hahah thank you buddy, but you give me too much credit! After all I merely link up the thread with them and give my opinion of what they are like and that :lol2: But thank you mate, I shall continue to keep on adding to it everytime I have something of interest! : victory:
> 
> The good ol' internet, it's a truly amazing idea I must admit without it none of us would be sharing information right now!! Thats pretty awesome that they did that for you though?! Blimey the amount of information that was available must of been amazing?! :O (Did you manage to breed them Rhino's yet mate?  haha )
> 
> ...


No Rhino's unfortunately Josh,but I have a couple of tincs,that think they are rhino's,so that'll do: victory:

Stu


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Hi guys its been a while.

Just thought id chime in on this thred.

Atelopus toads are avaliable to be kept in captivity however some are protected under citties. A.Zeteki for example is appendix 1!!!

Although not very commonly avaliable in the united kingdom, A.Hoogmoedi do become avaliable from time to time but be careful as the last ones i knew of where riddled with Cythrid, and my assumption is they were probably WC.

Over seas many species do seem to be avaliable, at a cost, but all appear to be CB.

Due to the work of companys such as understory enterprises and wikiri some very rare and endangered frogs are becoming avaliale as CB specamins that serve multi purposes. Not only do the tempt people away from the illegal market they also put a percentage of sales back into conservation projects such as CRARC.

check out the link for some nice atelopus for sale.

Toads For Sale - First Choice Reptiles

Just as a side note, It is only through the work of people like E.Griffis and B.Kubicki that some of these endangered amphibians are starting to regain there numbers and in the case of C.Calciffer eventually being introduced back into the wild.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> No Rhino's unfortunately Josh,but I have a couple of tincs,that think they are rhino's,so that'll do: victory:
> 
> Stu


Hahah that's a shame  But Tincs can get huge tbh so I think you could get away with claiming you own Rhinos  haha 

Josh 

P.S thanks for that link mate it was really great to read it!!  




knighty said:


> Hi guys its been a while.
> 
> Just thought id chime in on this thred.
> 
> Atelopus toads are avaliable to be kept in captivity however some are protected under citties. A.Zeteki for example is appendix 1!!!


Hi there Knighty : victory:

You get in on this thread all you want buddy, the more the merrier!! After as much information as possible! lol 

It has been a while since I looked on the CITES list so I think I need to print it out and keep it available to hand, so thank you for bringing up CITES!! :2thumb: In all fairness I didn't expect A.zeteki to even be available for the pet trade but after finding videos on YouTube of peopel with them in their collections... It's kind of worrying, what does everyone think about such a species being kept in the Private Pet Trade?! 



knighty said:


> Although not very commonly avaliable in the united kingdom, A.Hoogmoedi do become avaliable from time to time but be careful as the last ones i knew of where riddled with Chytrid, and my assumption is they were probably WC.
> 
> Over seas many species do seem to be avaliable, at a cost, but all appear to be CB.


Wow, so A.hoogmoedi is actually available in the Pet Industry in the UK? Does this include the A.h.nassaui too or just the main species of A.hoogmoedi? My main concern with these species within the genus would be Chytridiomycosis, like with everyone here I really wouldn't want to put my animals at risk for a few individuals, care about them all way too much! lol 



knighty said:


> Due to the work of companys such as understory enterprises and wikiri some very rare and endangered frogs are becoming avaliale as CB specamins that serve multi purposes. Not only do the tempt people away from the illegal market they also put a percentage of sales back into conservation projects such as CRARC.


That's actually a fantastic thing, they sell these animals into the Pet Trade (Sorry I have never dealt with either of them before) then or is this specifically and solely for Zoological collections? Stu looks like you would be able to get some CB Atelopus specimens :2thumb:



knighty said:


> check out the link for some nice atelopus for sale.
> 
> Toads For Sale - First Choice Reptiles
> 
> Just as a side note, It is only through the work of people like E.Griffis and B.Kubicki that some of these endangered amphibians are starting to regain there numbers and in the case of C.Calciffer eventually being introduced back into the wild.


Thank you Knightly I shall check it out right now! 

I think I have seen a journal by E.Griffis somewhere before, I will try and find it, it's on my hard drive some where it might be to do with his works!! 

Thank you so much Knightly, Ron, Ade, Stu and Colin for all the information and insight into this, I must admit it really is opening my eyes a little bit to the species in captivity. :no1:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

I just looked at the link you provided Knightly of First Choice Reptiles and must admit I am not in the least surprised about the price tags for these species! (the prices are actually for a pair of animals not individuals! - Bear in mind I don't like putting prices on animals really lol ) In fact I thought they were quite good considering what they are and their conservation value and status! lol 

_Atelopus bartolemius_ and _Atelopus spumarius barbotini _are both species and sub species that I have always found gorgeous looking in the Atelopus genus! Do you know if these are WC or CB specimens? 

Josh


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

I cant be 100% on the status of the animals, but i am led to believe that they are infact CB, but sources for horses an all lol.

They work on a first come first served basis and in the description they say that they would like a zoo ect to take them but the public are by no means forbiden. That to me shows a level of responsablity with these animals knowing there icun status ect. 

I wont name any idividuals or suppliers but they A.Hoogmoedi i am refering to were in the middle of the UK and survived little over 10 days. Just remember if its in the uk and it seems to good to be true it probably is. When ever a rare species comes up ask the retailer for the importers name and reference number even if its a shop with a good reputation or its your local store. At the end of the day they are a bussines and will do what they need to to survive.

Frogs from ecudaor, panama and the local surroundings have very few people who can legally export and if you check there websites they will tell you the authorised retailers/importers.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Over the last couple of years the hoogmoedi have been available in Holland as wildcaught adults.Thats where the ones in Britain came from.There was a problem with chytrid as knighty said but then you take a risk with all amphibians especially wild ones.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Guys what species is the red Atelopus,is that barbotini? As above Josh i'm in now way ready,but barbotini is just the most amazingly marked species,maybe one day

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Josh have a chat with James(terrarium supplies) A.s. barbortini,the purple one is in europe in captivity,I believe, as well as the yellow version Colin has mentioned. there seem to be difficulties to be sumounted with water,as Ron mentioned sustained amplexus/ovulation and getting the diatoms that the tads need. I love them,such stunning frogs/toads,but I know very very little about them. Maybe one day we might have a crack at them,but i feel in now way competent at this time plus,our set up doesn't lend itself to their needs.Searches on dendroboard will yield more info.
> 
> I can more than see why you're interested in them, just a tiny bit special these
> 
> ...


*Diatoms*! That was the bit that kind of hooked on me in passing, but made me look back later to see what I had missed. So, as well as all the environmental issues, we are potentially dealing with tadpoles that need food smaller than even Xenopus tads need. Ok, that's easy, ummm...


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Guys what species is the red Atelopus,is that barbotini? As above Josh i'm in now way ready,but barbotini is just the most amazingly marked species,maybe one day
> 
> Stu



A.s.barbotini I think does occur with Red to Purple markings!! lol But that First Choice Reptiles don't seem to provide a "Red Atelopus" with any nomenclature... :/ I hope that there will be more work with these and more projects like Knightly said to provide both Zoos and the Hobby with more Captive Bred specimens to stop the Wild Trade in them, that's when I think I will start looking into keeping them!!:2thumb:

I think the _Atelopus bartolemius_ is a really stunning species I definitely would enjoy keeping :mf_dribble: they all are really beautiful it's like _Dendrobatidae_ so much variation!! 



Ron Magpie said:


> *Diatoms*! That was the bit that kind of hooked on me in passing, but made me look back later to see what I had missed. So, as well as all the environmental issues, we are potentially dealing with tadpoles that need food smaller than even Xenopus tads need. Ok, that's easy, ummm...


I wouldn't even know where to look for them :L I think I shall do a bit of digging for journals again there must be a Atelopus Tadpole care Journal somewhere (I mean they have one for Scaphiophyrne marmorata so why not Atelopus?!  )


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> A.s.barbotini I think does occur with Red to Purple markings!! lol But that First Choice Reptiles don't seem to provide a "Red Atelopus" with any nomenclature... :/ I hope that there will be more work with these and more projects like Knightly said to provide both Zoos and the Hobby with more Captive Bred specimens to stop the Wild Trade in them, that's when I think I will start looking into keeping them!!:2thumb:
> 
> I think the _Atelopus bartolemius_ is a really stunning species I definitely would enjoy keeping :mf_dribble: they all are really beautiful it's like _Dendrobatidae_ so much variation!!
> 
> ...


Hmmm, I wonder if nettle tea would work (another old trick from the Dawn of Time, lol!) It used to be used for the more dificult Xenopus species- the idea is that you filter it through several layers of muslin (do they even *sell* muslin anymore?) to get the finest possible particles. Or cultivate your own 'green water', maybe.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if nettle tea would work (another old trick from the Dawn of Time, lol!) It used to be used for the more dificult Xenopus species- the idea is that you filter it through several layers of muslin (do they even *sell* muslin anymore?) to get the finest possible particles. Or cultivate your own 'green water', maybe.


Ron(Josh) I honestly don't know if this would work,as before I know very little about Atelopus. Here's one of the most informative threads I've found so far on dendroboard,I just can't help but want to know more:blush:


Atelopus Q&A Thread - Dendroboard
back to Da froshe.....Dinner time:mf_dribble::mf_dribble:

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Ron(Josh) I honestly don't know if this would work,as before I know very little about Atelopus. Here's one of the most informative threads I've found so far on dendroboard,I just can't help but want to know more:blush:
> 
> 
> Atelopus Q&A Thread - Dendroboard
> ...


Fascinating thread, Stu- so it's diatoms on the surface of the actual rocks the mostly eat... Hmmm...


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

barbotiniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii rock!My group got wiped out tho


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Yep still got my group of 10 spumarius, had them a few years now. Thinking of putting mine in a big display viv im building in the shop and maybe adding a few more.
I keep them in a planted viv with a stream and allthough the males will willingly go into amplex the females are just not interested they just go about business as if nothing is happening stuffing there faces and getting fatter while the male just clings on and wont let go. I always remove the male after awhile as he doesnt get enough food and will just starve to death. 
I do know someone in Belgium that has spawned them and after keeping them in a planted setup with a stream he put them in a rub half filled with water and aquatic plants put it outside overnight in the summer, next day they had spawned :gasp: might try this with mine this year as the females looking pretty fat now.
Might go on the hunt for some different ones i think :hmm:

Richie


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

richie.b said:


> Yep still got my group of 10 spumarius, had them a few years now. Thinking of putting mine in a big display viv im building in the shop and maybe adding a few more.
> I keep them in a planted viv with a stream and allthough the males will willingly go into amplex the females are just not interested they just go about business as if nothing is happening stuffing there faces and getting fatter while the male just clings on and wont let go. I always remove the male after awhile as he doesnt get enough food and will just starve to death.
> I do know someone in Belgium that has spawned them and after keeping them in a planted setup with a stream he put them in a rub half filled with water and aquatic plants put it outside overnight in the summer, next day they had spawned :gasp: might try this with mine this year as the females looking pretty fat now.
> Might go on the hunt for some different ones i think :hmm:
> ...


Any chance of some photos please Richie ?!  Expect a PM from me in a bit  haha 

Josh


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

richie.b said:


> Yep still got my group of 10 spumarius, had them a few years now. Thinking of putting mine in a big display viv im building in the shop and maybe adding a few more.
> I keep them in a planted viv with a stream and allthough the males will willingly go into amplex the females are just not interested they just go about business as if nothing is happening stuffing there faces and getting fatter while the male just clings on and wont let go. I always remove the male after awhile as he doesnt get enough food and will just starve to death.
> I do know someone in Belgium that has spawned them and after keeping them in a planted setup with a stream he put them in a rub half filled with water and aquatic plants put it outside overnight in the summer, next day they had spawned :gasp: might try this with mine this year as the females looking pretty fat now.
> Might go on the hunt for some different ones i think :hmm:
> ...


The tub outside...we talked about this didn't we Richie,damn I'd be half clever if I could remember anything,I also noted I'd thanked Ed 'erm last year lads:blush: Richie get 'em going mate,I know your busy,but hell you just rear frogs I recon it's in your blood or something,but please don't put some barbotini up for sale,it would kill me to pass them by ,but I know I must:lol2:

Ron yeah grazing tadpoles,that lateral side of me is already pondering,Cotswold chalk stream,(Ca in abundance,as an added bonus),I wonder........

From the seem of it ,it's all about someone here cracking the breeding of the WC,if that generation of F1 can be reared up then,maybe just maybe these won't be "quite" so difficult.
Richie can you remember how many your friend in Belgium managed to raise?
from that spawn?
Rain chambers, stella water quality,tads that feed on hmm:lol2: males and females kept separate, problems with ovulation(egg retention) sustained amplexus,the ability to feed just the right amount,it makes the most difficult dart frog seem like a walk in the park


Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> The tub outside...we talked about this didn't we Richie,damn I'd be half clever if I could remember anything,I also noted I'd thanked Ed 'erm last year lads:blush: Richie get 'em going mate,I know your busy,but hell you just rear frogs I recon it's in your blood or something,but please don't put some barbotini up for sale,it would kill me to pass them by ,but I know I must:lol2:
> 
> Ron yeah grazing tadpoles,that lateral side of me is already pondering,Cotswold chalk stream,(Ca in abundance,as an added bonus),I wonder........
> 
> ...


Think of it as a run in the woods! :lol2:

You could well be onto something with the chalk- I wonder if a large stream tank, set up well in advance, so that the surface layer has time to build up sufficiently, might work????


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Think of it as a run in the woods! :lol2:
> 
> You could well be onto something with the chalk- I wonder if a large stream tank, set up well in advance, so that the surface layer has time to build up sufficiently, might work????


If one could find the source of said chakstream,so one could grab before any pesticides fertilizers had entered the water course Ron,that maybe is where I'd start rocks aswell as initial water with permission naturally. I think the whole shebang is well set up in advance mate across the board,nice pondering it though:2thumb:

run in the woods:no1:

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> If one could find the source of said chakstream,so one could grab before any pesticides fertilizers had entered the water course Ron,that maybe is where I'd start rocks aswell as initial water with permission naturally. I think the whole shebang is well set up in advance mate across the board,nice pondering it though:2thumb:
> 
> run in the woods:no1:
> 
> Stu


Have no intention (space, funds etc) myself, but the problem interests me- and if enough people speculate, someone might come up with the solution- it's worked for other species!


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## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

richie.b said:


> Might go on the hunt for some different ones i think :hmm:


Every time I ask Mrs Aberreef what frog to get next she says a purple one:flrt:

OMG this thread could get expensive:bash:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey guys!! 

It's been a while since I posted on here about the awesome and expensive Atelopus genus and from what I have found out about them when it comes to Zoological Collections is that it's more of an American thing with the Neo-Tropical South American and Central American species and is pretty much completely covered over there with conservation breeding. On our front though, Malagasy and South-east Asian species are the main focus of Conservation projects.


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