# Phyllobates terriblis set up.



## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi all.
Well i'm currently in the planning stage of getting a small group together. So today while getting my son's room ready for the new furniture the wife's ordered. I thought this piece was just too good for the tip. So after cutting it about a bit & strengthening it in places. Have myself a nice sturdy base unit for the second hand exo terra im picking up on wednesday. Not too bothered what it looks like, as it's out in my reptile/frog room. Viv will be a 90x45x60 high & although i really wanted a 45 high, got the 60 high for a really good price & it's in really good nick too. Just need to modify & fruit fly proof it a bit first. 



Will update as i go along.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Well collected the second hand exo-terra yesterday evening. Had a day off today, to go to the hospital with my wife & as we got out earlier than expected. Got home & gave it a good clean. Also sat the T5 light unit on top, i think it looks the part. Need to modify the roof somehow (following Zac's thread with interest here) & ff proof it as far as possible. Also need to decide how i'm going to do the background. Thinking either cork bark panels, & although these are expensive, look good imo & help maintain humidity. Or use the exo-terra background that came with the viv, though this is very discoloured & tatty. Was thinking of painting it with pond paint, but it's also quite expensive. Was also considering coating the exo background with tile grout & sealing. But can't find a suitable, 100% safe product. Anyone recommend something?Going to use Japanese matting (aquatic filter media) as a false bottom, fine fly mesh on top & my substrate on top of that. I will set it up as Glen (frogfreak) showed on one of his threads. Have done this on my Mantella aurantiaca's viv & i like the look of the pebbles at the front of the viv
Planning to drill the glass bottom & install a drain.





Opinions, thoughts & any info/advice welcomed. Will update as & when.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Well as i got home a bit earlier today, decided to do a bit more.
Siliconed some perspex (left over from a job : victory to the inside of the exo lid. I'm going to silicone it all around the inside edge once i fit it into place. Have left a 100mm gap for the light unit to sit on. This should allow enough room for some ventilation. 


I have also drilled the drainage hole & fitted a 6mm piece of tubing, that i have siliconed into place & attached a small plastic shut off valve. This will drain into a bucket, when i open the valve. Decided to do it this way, as i already had the bits from my fish keeping hobby. I have deliberately set up the base unit so that there is a small (approx 4mm) fall to the front & r/h side where the hole is. This is where the water collects. But the unevenness doesn't show to the eye. Also have the Jap matting in place. This will form the false floor.


Need to fit the weed barrier cloth next. Then trim & fit the exo backgrounds. Going to have the back & l/h side done.
Updates to follow.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Update:
Well managed to get a bit more done today, in between getting called out to re-hang a door which had been vandalised :devil:
Anyway, fitted the weed barrier cloth over the drainage layer. Before i did this i tested the drain i put in yesterday evening. It works a treat :2thumb:.
Following a conversation via pm with Mike (frogman) where he mentioned the idea of using a rockery set up. I decided to try it myself. I have put this in the same way as Glen (frogfreak) showed on an old previous thread i read. Really easy to do & i personally like the finished look. Not exactly what you'd likely find in the rainforest i suspect (judging by the few natural habitat pics iv'e managed to find on the net). But as Mike has informed me, from experience keeping terriblis, is that they seem to prefer rock under foot as opposed to leaf litter or a softer substrate. At least it gives them the option?



Also painted the bare end of the tank, around the substrate/drainage line, just so that you can't see the layers.



Decided to go with the exo terra background, Again Mike kinda made up my mind for me, as i wasn't going to use it due to how tatty it looks. But as he advised, once it has a few climbers grow on it, it should look ok. Just bought a new one for the left hand end of the tank. I'm actually quite pleased with how it looks & saved me a few quid.Was going to use the natural cork bark panels & although i love the look of them, they are not cheap.




So just need to add substrate, decor & plants next :2thumb: Updates to follow.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi all.
As promised some pics of my finished set up. All planted up now & just waiting for me frogs :2thumb:
Really pleased with how it's turned out & especially pleased with my plants from leaf frog. Decided to go with providing uv after all, just feel more comfortable knowing if it does benefit them at least it's there. Got a good price for the Arcadia T5 HO 6% D3 tube & it's good for a full year according to Arcadia.
Hope you like.







Obviously the plants need to grow in & there is a nice climber behind the cork bark tube. This i'll train up the background eventually. Love the Spanish moss, which was a freebie from Zac @ feaf frog plants, so cheers Zac.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Looks awesome bud. If it were me I would mount some broms on the cork, the terribs might not use them directly, but they wil provide a "canopy" me and liam have found they don't like being exspoed in bright light too much. 

Just my two cents buddy, but it looks really good, good job. :2thumb:


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Thanks Callum, appreciate your comments. Tbh i'm on it mate & i'm on the look out far a suitable brom or two. Saw one on Dartfrogs site, but he's out of stock of the particular one i liked.


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

johne.ev said:


> Thanks Callum, appreciate your comments. Tbh i'm on it mate & i'm on the look out far a suitable brom or two. Saw one on Dartfrogs site, but he's out of stock of the particular one i liked.


if its just a few broms your after, speak to DARK VALENTINO on here, he's recently opened up a site http://www.leaffrogtropicals.co.uk/ and has a nice selection to choose from.


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## Patto96 (Apr 18, 2013)

Looks great!


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Heart4Darts said:


> if its just a few broms your after, speak to DARK VALENTINO on here, he's recently opened up a site leaffrog tropicals and has a nice selection to choose from.


 Ha ha! You mean Zac?? That's where i got all the plants from mate :2thumb:. Were on first name terms now me & Zac :lol2:

Cheers patto.


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## Dark Valentino (Mar 15, 2013)

Heart4Darts said:


> if its just a few broms your after, speak to DARK VALENTINO on here, he's recently opened up a site leaffrog tropicals and has a nice selection to choose from.


Thanks Glenn :blush:



johne.ev said:


> Ha ha! You mean Zac?? That's where i got all the plants from mate :2thumb:. Were on first name terms now me & Zac :lol2:
> 
> Cheers patto.



Loving the set-up John, looks Brilliant :thumb: your Placement with the Spanish moss has really made it come to life too.

I have a few more Broms coming in on Friday that I think would look very nice on that big chunk of cork :whistling2: aha


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey bud not been around for a week or so on here so have missed the updates. Glad to see your finally getting started! You won't look back I'm sure!


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Liam, thanks a lot mate.

Well got four terriblis delivered from Dartfrog today. Must say the quality of Marc's frogs is second to none. I can't believe how bold they are too, don't even flinch when i open the doors, just stand there looking like little bull dogs (can't remember where i read that, but it's so true). They even fed after two hours of putting them in the viv. Took some tiny crickets which i dropped in front of them.
Here's a couple of pics i snapped really quickly, thinking they might scarper... Ha ha, no chance :lol2:





Have also added two plants i saw in b&q, that were quite cheap.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Ha ha! Who said terriblis don't climb? I do actually find mine climb quite a bit, certain individuals more than others though to be fair.



And one of one, where they are supposed to be, :lol2:


And finally one of enclosure. As you can see holds really good humidity since modifying & fixing perspex to inside of roof panels. This had been misted a couple of hours earlier, when i got up this morning.


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

I find mine climb up the glass near where i feed them (its a modified aquarium so just an opening lid) so they climb on the glass and wait for food in the morning


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

As these are my first dart frogs i don't have any experience of other species feeding habits. But one things for sure... terribs sure like their food :lol2:
As yours do deadsea, mine also seem to congregate by the doors each morning, waiting to be fed.
I'm actually trying to train mine to come for food, using a clicking method. Each time i open the viv doors with food, i click several times with some small feeding tongs. They do tend to emerge from where they are hiding. But whether its the sound of the tongs or just that i'm opening the doors & they expect food then anyway, i'm not sure. I suspect they would come out of hiding looking for grub whether i clicked or not :lol2:.


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Mine defiantly *love* their food
Never tried training mine but I normally feed after using the misting system so they start climbing then! They are without doubts favourite dart due to their boldness. Today mine jumped onto my hand while I was pruning!! 
James


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

johne.ev said:


> As these are my first dart frogs i don't have any experience of other species feeding habits. But one things for sure... terribs sure like their food :lol2:
> As yours do deadsea, mine also seem to congregate by the doors each morning, waiting to be fed.
> I'm actually trying to train mine to come for food, using a clicking method. Each time i open the viv doors with food, i click several times with some small feeding tongs. They do tend to emerge from where they are hiding. But whether its the sound of the tongs or just that i'm opening the doors & they expect food then anyway, i'm not sure. I suspect they would come out of hiding looking for grub whether i clicked or not :lol2:.


I've used a feeding signal with my clawed frogs for years- I 'drum' my fingernails against the glass every time I feed them. They definitely respond to it, and the response is different to opening the tank- when I do that, they perk up on the off-chance, but when I tap, they go into typical clawed frog feeding frenzy, zooming around with their arms outstreched, stuffing anything they come across into their mouths. It's hilarious to watch! :lol2:


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

deadsea60 said:


> Mine defiantly *love* their food
> Never tried training mine but I normally feed after using the misting system so they start climbing then! They are without doubts favourite dart due to their boldness. Today mine jumped onto my hand while I was pruning!!
> James


Yeah agree... mine are also bold. I usually place the food right in front of them. They don't even flinch :2thumb:


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> I've used a feeding signal with my clawed frogs for years- I 'drum' my fingernails against the glass every time I feed them. They definitely respond to it, and the response is different to opening the tank- when I do that, they perk up on the off-chance, but when I tap, they go into typical clawed frog feeding frenzy, zooming around with their arms outstreched, stuffing anything they come across into their mouths. It's hilarious to watch! :lol2:



Sounds funny Ron. Worth a video clip eh?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

johne.ev said:


> Sounds funny Ron. Worth a video clip eh?


I'll give it a go! I must say, your frogs are impressive- I've always said that if I ever do get round to darts, I'd go for leucs- but I do like the look of these.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> I'll give it a go! I must say, your frogs are impressive- I've always said that if I ever do get round to darts, I'd go for leucs- but I do like the look of these.


Yeah really like these Ron. Like the fact that they are bold, take larger food than most darts & they are yellow :2thumb: Already have Mantella aurantiaca, orange & red forms. So wanted something a different colour.
I'm picking up another five next weekend, different bloodline (as far as i'm aware). Hoping to breed these in the not too distant future.


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Nine does seem a lot for that sized tank! I would suggest getting one max more!


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

deadsea60 said:


> Nine does seem a lot for that sized tank! I would suggest getting one max more!


Yeah possibly, will see how it goes & either get a larger viv or move a couple on, once i know the sex of the group.


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

Our trio


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

johne.ev said:


> Yeah possibly, will see how it goes & either get a larger viv or move a couple on, once i know the sex of the group.


Not being a dart keeper, I lose track of which species do best in groups, male/female ratios etc- what's the optimum for terriblis?


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

we have 1 female 2 males


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Not being a dart keeper, I lose track of which species do best in groups, male/female ratios etc- what's the optimum for terriblis?


IMO and from what I have read male heavy is better so I would go optimum of 3:2 (male:female)


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

You seem to have a nice fat (eggs?) female at the back there . Male at front (and in middle?)


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

yes female at the back others are the males
we breed them often john picking up 5 babies from us soon


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Nice, got my first eggs a few weeks back but now the male has stopped calling. Female is getting fat again though. Is this normal for first eggs?
Thanks


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

will be getting some of these in june too black gloved terribs










also working with mints


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Nice, did you see my reply before what are you thoughts?


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

deadsea60 said:


> Nice, got my first eggs a few weeks back but now the male has stopped calling. Female is getting fat again though. Is this normal for first eggs?
> Thanks


yes our male goes quiet when she has eggs


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Okay just wanted to check that nothing was wrong, unfortunately they were all infertile but one and that one didn't make it. They got swarmed by white worms!!


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

it can take a good few breeding before you get fertile eggs we had the same prob to start with


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

yh annoying but hopefully I will be breeding soon . How long do hey take to lay new clutches normally?
(P.s. sorry for hijacking the thread if Absinthia thinks it is more appropriate PM me )


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## Absinthia (Mar 22, 2012)

ours do it every 2-3 weeks


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi all.
Just thought i'd update this thread:
Well it's been getting close on three months now, since i decided to keep Phyllobates terriblis as my first dart frogs. All i can say is i'm so glad i decided on this species to start with as my first darts.
Although even from the first couple of hours of introducing them into their viv, they were never really what you'd call shy. But now they are unbelievably tame/bold.
Started off trying to click train them at feeding time. Ha ha, totally unnecessary... you only have to open the door & they are there, right in front of you, waiting for food.
Although i originally planned to get a group of five or six frogs. I have actually ended up with nine. Will either move a few on once i know the sex of the group or upgrade to a bigger vivarium & keep the whole lot.
Have added a couple of cuttings (which are doing well) & moved a couple of plants around which weren't doing so well in there original position.
Hope you like. :2thumb:


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## deadsea60 (Apr 20, 2011)

Looks pretty nice, but in my opinion you have too many foliage plants and not enough climbers, I always love it when a background/piece of wood is taken over by climbers but that just my opinion!
Hope you are enjoying the frogs as much as I enjoy mine!!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

johne.ev said:


> Hi all.
> Just thought i'd update this thread:
> Well it's been getting close on three months now, since i decided to keep Phyllobates terriblis as my first dart frogs. All i can say is i'm so glad i decided on this species to start with as my first darts.
> Although even from the first couple of hours of introducing them into their viv, they were never really what you'd call shy. But now they are unbelievably tame/bold.
> ...


Especially loving the 'log'- it sets things off nicely! :2thumb:


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

As they say mate... "each to their own" eh? 
I'm happy with it though, but take on board your comments anyway. Will get a few climbers when i get around to it. The two plants on the large cork tube are actually climbers/trailing species. One is a pumila sunny, not sure of the other (did find the name, but have forgotten it :blush. Have only recently moved the pumila, so hopefully it'll do better & spread around the background.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Yeah! i totally agree Ron. :2thumb:


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

I like the log too. It's quite similar to mine in fact. Me and a few others have noticed that they can be quite sensitive to light and the fact you have a log there with natural shadows for them to choose is good. 


Also I'll PM you.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Yes that was the idea regards the cork log, as well as being a kind of center piece. I have also noticed a couple of my frogs (always seems to be the same two) seem to like sitting at the top of the log, under the uv, as if basking? 

Thanks Liam, replied to pm. Very generous of you mate & much appreciated :notworthy:.


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