# Gastrotheca spp.



## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi,

have to start a thread for my long time favorite frog genus: Gastrotheca


Gastrotheca riobambae, female:












all the best,
Martin


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Gastrotheca riobambae, adult female


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Its good to see that these are back in the hobby.I used to have some about thirty years ago.


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

yes, I am also very happy they are back! = Even the photos above are minimum 12 years old and I don't keep these specimens anymore. But since this year, I have two new groups of G. riobambae... =


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

If you want any further information please contact Thelodema(Chris) on here .He bred them in the past .

i am glad that people are breeding them again.i did think that the ones from P.F.I. were expensive.


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reference. I kept different Gastrotheca species in the past and was lucky to breed them several times. Unfortunately, at this time, almost no one was interested in the offspring. 

The prices - also for the imported ones - are dropping. A friend of mine is selling his offspring (CB 2012) for 20 EUR each.


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

and adult male of another species, could be Gastrotheca monticola, but I am not sure.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Really attractive little frogs, quite aside from the fascinating life history.

*sigh* The wish list grows ever longer...


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Feeding time for my Gastrotheca riobambae:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAIKK17s24


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Honestly, whatever that last pic is I'll take one right now. Absolutely stunning, the wife went as far as to describe it as fantastical.


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

As Colin mentioned, I used to keep and breed these about twenty years ago. My adults were from the area around Guaranda, Ecuador, but I also saw and heard them in other places, including Cotopaxi National Park. I understand that many populations have disappeared recently, presumably due to chytrid disease. 

I kept them in an unheated glass cage in my study for a while, and they bred there on several occasions, and then moved them to an unheated greenhouse, where they also bred. G. riobambae is very variable and your third photo could be of this species also, from what I can see. Some of mine had bright blue thighs.

The photo is one of the second generation I selected for good colour. She has eggs in her pouch.

I regret letting them go (a phrase I seem to be using more and more often these days) and would like to obtain another small group if I can.

Regards,

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hey Chris,

glad you joint this thread! 

Have you collected the specimens you kept in the past yourself, that you know the exact locality?

Beautiful specimen you had in the past. Do you have more photos you would like to share? 

I am pretty sure, that the one of the third photo is a different species. It came with an import form Peru and the habitus is different than the one from G. riobambae, even it is a very variable species.

Currently I am keeping two groups of Gastrotheca riobambae. This is one, while I am cleaning their tank.










all the best,
Martin


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi,

yesterday late in the morning (about 10.00 am), I caught my Gastrotheca riobambae in the act:




















Since a couple of weeks I keep this group (3,5) in a box in the garden. Lowest temperature I messured early in the morning a couple of weeks ago was 4C. Yesterday at 11.30 am I messured 17C.

Unfortunately, the male didn't manage to guide all eggs in her pouch. Later I counted 82 eggs on the ground. For his excuse: it was the first time for both.
























































Anyhow, it looks like the female is carrying a few eggs at least:










...time will tell, if they are fertile.

Kind regards,
Martin


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

That's great news, Martin. Let us know how things develop. In my experience, the tadpoles are quite large when they leave the pouch and feed on almost anything. The young frogs are easy to rear.

Good luck!

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Photo from today - she is still carrying the eggs:


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

It's looking good, Martin.

By the way, did you try to incubate the spilled eggs? Perhaps in a small plastic tub with a humid atmosphere? It would be great to see them developing "out in the open".

Regards,

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Theloderma said:


> By the way, did you try to incubate the spilled eggs? Perhaps in a small plastic tub with a humid atmosphere? It would be great to see them developing "out in the open".


yes, that would be great, but I don't think that it would work. The skin inside the pouch growths during the breeding phase arround the eggs, a bit similar like with Pipa pipa and they develop "bell-like skills", which also grow arround the eggs like a capsule.

Therefore I don't think, that they would survive in a plastic tub. 

kind regards,
Martin


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Theloderma said:


> It's looking good, Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you try to incubate the spilled eggs? Perhaps in a small plastic tub with a humid atmosphere? It would be great to see them developing "out in the open".
> 
> ...





earthtiger said:


> yes, that would be great, but I don't think that it would work. The skin inside the pouch growths during the breeding phase arround the eggs, a bit similar like with Pipa pipa and they develop "bell-like skills", which also grow arround the eggs like a capsule.
> 
> Therefore I don't think, that they would survive in a plastic tub.
> 
> ...


I would imagine it could be possible- if we give the ideal conditions to recreate the mothers pouch. I'm guessing no recent massive funding offers to find out, though...


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

earthtiger said:


> yes, that would be great, but I don't think that it would work. The skin inside the pouch growths during the breeding phase arround the eggs, a bit similar like with Pipa pipa and they develop "bell-like skills", which also grow arround the eggs like a capsule.
> 
> Therefore I don't think, that they would survive in a plastic tub.
> 
> ...


Good point. I didn't know that _Gastrotheca_ develop these outgrowths, which, in the case of _Pipa_, are to carry oxygen to the developing egg and larva. It still might be worth a try, though: the network of vessels that grow around the eggs may not be necessary if they are not inside the pouch. The other interesting thing about the eggs (_Pipa_ and _Gastrotheca_) is that they lack the black pigments that protect them from ultra-violet, because they are not exposed to daylight during their development. Golden mantella eggs are also white, presumably because they bury them under moss, as are a number of other species that "hide" their eggs. So much to learn, so little time!

Regards,

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi,

yesterday evening I took a look at my Gastrotheca riobambae and to my joy, I discovered the following:











This morning at 6.00 am, nothing happened so far: they where still sitting in amplexus in the same place as the evening before. At 7.30 am it looked like this (IMO the hind legs of the male where positioned a bit differently):











And at this moment, they are in process doing the following:











It is a different male (and female) the ones in the photos above. But as the one from last time, also dropping some eggs on the ground. Let's see, in the end how many he does not manage to push in the pouch of the female.

kind regards,
Martin


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Do you know how long the gestation period is Martin?


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

About four weeks, but it can take much longer. Depending on the external conditions like temperature and also, if there is a good place to release the tadpoles or not. If there is none or the conditions are bad, the females will wait and carry the tadpoles longer. In one article is mentioned, that they often release the tadpoles after the water in the water bowl has been changed.

BTW, they have finished their work by now. I will post photos tomorrow. The female looks well "stuffed"! =;-)


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

Hello Martin.

More good news! But I don't remember any of mine producing tadpoles in four weeks; 90 days seems to stick in my mind but this could be wrong. I wrote an article on them somewhere - if I can dig it out I'll let you have the details. Your note about releasing the tads in fresh water is interesting and makes sense - this may correspond with rain storms that fill the ditches where they breed naturally.

The tadpoles are very large when they emerge (the female uses one of her hind feet to scoop out the last ones; just like human teenagers, some are reluctant to leave home). They are the only tadpoles I ever raised that would eat the floating fern Salvinia.

Best wishes,

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Chris, the four weeks are from this article:
Haltung, Zucht und Entwicklung des Beutelfrosches Gastrotheca riobambae.
But they kept them very warm (IMHO way to warm): 35C at the top of the cage, 28C in the middle and 24C at the bottom.

This video (btw, a very interesting video) mentioned two month:
Biologie d'une rainette marsupiale (Gastrotheca riobambae) - CERIMES - Vidéo - Canal-U

I also have something from 2 to 3 month in my head, but don't know the source. Have lent all my Gastrotheca articles to a friend of mine.

kind regards,
Martin


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi,

some more photos from yesterday evening, after they have finished the packing process:











The freshly stuffed female:




















This time, I only could find about 30 spilled eggs.

kind regards,
Martin


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## Theloderma (Oct 30, 2008)

That looks like a _really_ large clutch, Martin. The most I ever had was just under 100 (I wish I could find my notes so I could be more precise).

The temperature mentioned in that article is crazy. These frogs come from the high Andes. I have heard the males calling at a temperature of 4 degrees C in Cotopaxi National Park and I found males females and froglets in the evening near Guaranda - I was wearing a fleece jacket at the time, and I needed it!

In the UK I kept them at a cool room temperature throughout the year and, later, I moved some of them to an unheated greenhouse. 

Good luck with the eggs,

Chris


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## earthtiger (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi,

another year, another chance: Two photos from yesterday morning:





















...hope to have more luck than last year - ok, it can't get worse than last year. *sigh*

kind regards,
Martin


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