# Absolutely Fuming....Bailey was juast attacked!!!



## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Have just taken Bailey for our usual lunchtime walk in the park. We meet lots of dogs and people and he loves it.

Today for a change I decided to go off the path and across the field where alot of people throw balls for their dogs. There was just 1 guy with a border collie. The collie ran over to me and dropped its ball at my feet, he seemed fine with Bailey saying hello and its owner came over and took the ball and threw it. Again it brought the ball back to me.....but I tried to walk on with Bailey because the owner said he was trying to stop him doing this.....anyway im not sure what happened next..whether Bailey got to close to his ball or something but the collie pounced on him and attacked him. Bailey was screaming, I was screaming and trying to pull Baileys lead towards me. It only lasted seconds but my poor baby was covered in saliva and screaming. I picked him straight up checked him over and couldnt find any injuries. The guy apologised and said it had never happened before.........I was far to shocked to give him the telling off I wish I could give now. Really wish my OH had been there, the guy would wish he hadnt been born. 

We both sat on a bench and calmed down. My initial reaction was to go home but I didnt want to leave the park on such a bad memory for Bailey so went the long way back to thecar through the park. We bumped into 2 dogs and as soon as they came near Bailey he screamed and tried to get away............he has always loved other dogs and now im scared he might develop a fear.

We are now home and ive checked him again and he has a tooth puncture wound in his wrinkles under his neck. It isnt bleeding so im not sure if its something for the vets or whether to keep it clean with antiseptic?

He is sleeping now but when he wakes im thinking of taking him to my mums. She has 2yorkies that he sees all the time. I really dont want this experience to become a problem for him. If anybody has any advise id be very grateful. Im still quite shakey and dont know what is best :-(


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Unfortunately this things do happen and it can have a bad effect on dogs - my dog has been attacked several times (twice by the same dog) and as such she is now often wary of making new friends when she is on the lead (nearly every time she was attacked she was on a lead). I would try and get him to meet as many other dogs as possible (especially collies) to try and get him used to other dogs again. I would get the puncture would checked by the vets - he may be given an antibiotic injection to stop any infections.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

i really would get the puncture checked...this happened to my beagle in the summer (she was off lead and the dog that attacked her was on a lead and many people on her had a go at me for it) but she needed anti-biotics.
i do hope he is ok...


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Poor Bailey!
It does happen sometimes unfortunately - but getting right back on the horse is the best thing you can do in my opinion, else the bad experience may intensify in his mind. Does he have a particular playmate he meets on walks, that he likes to play with? Maybe knowing that despite being scragged by one dog, there are still others that are just here to play with him, may settle him.
Toby was attacked numerous time when he was young, because of his sometimes poor etiquette and inability to quit while he was ahead, but he did learn from the experiences and it may have been that he was daft as a brush, but he never let the experiences sway him, and we never let it affect us either else we'd have spent the rest of his life avoiding every single dog that walked by, and that's no fun!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Sounds like it could have been over possessive of its toy.

I would get the puncture wound checked out tho as it would need to heal from the inside out ( if that makes sense ), probly just needs flushing out then putting on some anti-bitoics to stop infection.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Michelle G said:


> Have just taken Bailey for our usual lunchtime walk in the park. We meet lots of dogs and people and he loves it.
> 
> Today for a change I decided to go off the path and across the field where alot of people throw balls for their dogs. There was just 1 guy with a border collie. The collie ran over to me and dropped its ball at my feet, he seemed fine with Bailey saying hello and its owner came over and took the ball and threw it. Again it brought the ball back to me.....but I tried to walk on with Bailey because the owner said he was trying to stop him doing this.....anyway im not sure what happened next..whether Bailey got to close to his ball or something but the collie pounced on him and attacked him. Bailey was screaming, I was screaming and trying to pull Baileys lead towards me. It only lasted seconds but my poor baby was covered in saliva and screaming. I picked him straight up checked him over and couldnt find any injuries. The guy apologised and said it had never happened before.........I was far to shocked to give him the telling off I wish I could give now. Really wish my OH had been there, the guy would wish he hadnt been born.
> 
> ...


Think tacking him to your mums and keep him socialised is the best idea.

Sometimes with dogs its alot of noise with not much damage..(shouting match)

They do say that dogs live for the moment..

Our lab was turned on when a pup by a rottie..

Needed vet but didnt make any difference with him toward other dogs..

However our crossbreed was also attacked by an alsation and he would go for any alsation he saw....

Not an expert on dogs but have had them since a kid..

And that wasnt yesterday...


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Think tacking him to your mums and keep him socialised is the best idea.
> 
> Sometimes with dogs its alot of noise with not much damage..(shouting match)
> 
> ...


Agree with this :no1:
Tobes was scragged by several dogs, but for some reason the only dogs that really imprinted on him were boxers and cocker spaniels :hmm: Oh and our next door neighbour's Jack Russell terrier.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words and advise guys. Ive got him booked at the vets for 3.30...where he will probs meet other dogs and then straight over to my mums to meet her 2. 
Will try get him straight back on the horse and hope it doesnt do to much damage xx


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

Poor poor Bailey !!! 
I too would get him checked over and just keep an eye out for shock, he may have upset tum for few days due to whats happened. 

I too would keep him around other dogs, But I will say with some dogs it just doesnt go away. 
Dot was attacked as a pup, and dispite training etc the fear has never gone and the only dog she is happy around is Bear, But Bear has been attacked several times....Once he had he neck ripped, yet he loves other dogs and always will. I think it really it is down to the dog. 
I hope he is ok xxx


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

my lil dog was attacked by a doberman last year , he still has some issues with certain dogs now, he will bark and howl (which people see as agression  which didnt help with getting him use to dogs again as people heard him bark and walked the other way hes only small so i guess they see him as an "ankle biter") he has however got alot better than he was just after the attack with him it was just a matter of time and lots of praise when he did approach another dog/let another dog approach him. i think taking him to see dogs he is use to would be a good start, with any luck it will be a good step to reassuring him that not all will attack him. 

in regards to the puncture, i would get it checked, its always better to be safe than sorry, and your vet may have some suggestions to help him back to his normal friendly self 

i hope he is better soon! give him lots of snuggles from me


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Michelle G said:


> I was far to shocked to give him the telling off I wish I could give now. Really wish my OH had been there, the guy would wish he hadnt been born.


How is that ever going to help anything? Its not the guys fault is it?


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

because its not nice when your dog gets attacked and you see it happening... tempers run high!


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## Stotty (Nov 2, 2010)

This happend to one of my dogs funnily enough it was the same type of situation with the ball and a collie :gasp:. My dog is fine with anyother dog but wont go near or growls at collies now.


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Michelle G said:


> *The guy apologised and said it had never happened before*.........I was far to shocked to give him the telling off I wish I could give now. Really wish my OH had been there, the guy would wish he hadnt been born.





Crownan said:


> How is that ever going to help anything? Its not the guys fault is it?


I was actually going to ask that as well. 
Yeah it's a big shame that your dog was attacked, but unfortunately dogs do get possessive over things. I cant see how if your OH had made the guy wish he hardnt been born help the situation one bit. Especially seeing as he had apologised on behalf of his dog.

My nan has a little um lap dog? bichon frise(sp) and my 6 year old bro once went to talk to the dog while the dog was eating (my bro has visual issues which comes along with his disability) and the dog snapped at him, cut his hand. Should i have made my nan wish she wasnt born because of the actions of a possessive dog?

Anyway. Hope your dog is fine. I'm sure he'll be back to being a happy chappy with other dogs in no time! Would be a good idea to get the graze seen to by the vet though.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

I havnt read all the comments but its things like this that gave my dog a fear of other dogs. Once you have the puncture looked at it might be an idea to find a training class or in some cases people let an older dog into a puppy socialisation class for the sake of boosting confidence, they let us do this with woody, we sat at the side and watched a class go on. Better sorting it quick than preventing him seeing dogs.


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## Spiff (Dec 3, 2010)

agree with all the advice! keep him socialised! I have a 2 1/2 year old Siberian Husky called Oscar and the ammount of time dogs have gone after him usually saffs but as i dont know anyone with a staff whenever we pass one in the street he growls and snarls! other dogs he is fine with just staffs but he has been bitten by 2 that have escaped from their house!

As long as you dont panic about it they usually foget about it in no time though!


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Rach1 said:


> because its not nice when your dog gets attacked and you see it happening... tempers run high!


Oh well thats ok then?! :roll:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

i didn't say it was alright i said thats probably why she felt that way... once the OP calms down i'm sure she will realise that it isn't the best idea!
its a spur of the moment thing... she probably was wound up and stressed and needed to vent!

so you can stop the eye rolling!


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## the mighty P (Feb 6, 2010)

Imreally sorry to hear about your dog, i think you have done the best thing taking her to the vets as you dont know what kind of bacteria could have got into the wound. Please let us know how he gets on.
Sound like the dog was obsessive over his ball (that might be why the owner was trying to stop him doing it) but neverless if that is the issue you shouldnt really let dogs that might attack other dogs or people off lead.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

when it happened to my dog many people on here said it was my fault for letting my beagle off the lead... and the dog which attacked it was perfectly ok to do so as it was on a lead and was clearly scared!


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Rach1 said:


> when it happened to my dog many people on here said it was my fault for letting my beagle off the lead... and the dog which attacked it was perfectly ok to do so as it was on a lead and was clearly scared!


Letting your dog off the lead was not the problem, letting it approach a dog that was on the lead was. Dogs can be on leads for various reasons and people should be entitled to have their dog on a lead without worrying about someone elses dog charging over and bothering them or their dog.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm sure the owner of the collie has learnt a valuable lesson, and if you don't let this upset you then fingers x'd it won't upset Bailey either! It is, in all honesty, part of dog owning and something that should be minimised and managed rather than expected NEVER to happen because that's just unfair on the dogs.

The next few times you meet dogs make it extra specially fun with lots of treats and praise and possibly his favourite toy so other dogs aren't just good, they're BRILLIANT and if you're not fearful then hopefully he won't be either.

Having said this, my newest rescue is fear-aggressive and not much fun to walk in high dog-traffic areas so keep your hopes high but prepare for the worst, if that makes sense. The only Shar Pei I really know isn't all that fond of other dogs after a few tussles.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

As a owner of a very nasty English Bull Terrier I believe that all dogs should remain on a lead to prevent things like this. My dog tries to attack others but due to the fact that she in on a harness and has a muzzle she presents no threat to any other dog.

However foolish dog owners have let their dogs off leads near mine and their dogs have sufferd due to it.

I once remember I was backing the motorbike out of the back garden through a side gate, Shiner was in the garden sunbathing, just chilling as she does. Now she never leaves the garden through the gate unless told to do so.

Needless to say a ignorant/careless dog owner was walking her dog with no lead, it was a cocker spaniel, the dog came right up to me and I started shouting "get her away now my dog is in the backyard" (I had the full weight of my bike and a dog running around my legs), the woman ignored me, while shouting this her dog growled and went for my leg, shiner must of heard the growl and ran round the corner of the gate and pinned the strange dog.

She then gave it a good hiding before I could get her off, she would of killed it. The dogs owner tried to put the blame on me!! But if the dog was on the lead as it obviously proved then that it ws a danger to people this would never of happend.

The past few times I have seen her walking her dog however, she has used her lead. I guess even the most stubborn people learn that it is in their interest to follow the rules.

Your dog will be fine as long as you dont isolate him from other dogs. The worse thing you can do is baby Bailey, Dogs are naturally pack animals and he would of understood this "warning" from the other dog. 

What your now doing is the best thing you can do. And dont worry, he will be fine.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

i think it is good that you recognise your dog's issues and deal with them accordingly... and warn others of her aggresion!
if my dog were to be aggresive i would muzzle it, to stop issues like this occuring.
when i made my original thread about this last summer i did recognise that my beagle had approached the other dog... and now have her on a long line unless we're at the beach where its really roomy BUT its nice to find a dog owner who takes extra precautions with their dog knowing its gat an aggresive nature!

EDIT:- not trying to start an argument here by the way...i'm just saying. i think what i learned from this last time is that everyone has their very distinct opinion on this type of thing! 
put it this way...i learnt somethings from my posts and others possibly did too...,which is always a good thing!


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

you could report it to the police as it would come under the dangerous dogs act but wheather they do anything as the dog didnt attack you i dont know.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

would it tho... as it could be said the dog was simply being possesive of its ball.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

bikenut said:


> As a owner of a very nasty English Bull Terrier I believe that all dogs should remain on a lead to prevent things like this.


If my dogs approached an on lead dog (which they do not) then got bitten/attacked it will 100% be my fault. However I do have to say I find it unsuitable to take an aggressive dog to a place where dogs and owners wish to relax and be off lead especially at peak time and also areas where other owners cannot see you coming with your dog onlead is also unsuitable, if people cant see you on a winding woodland walk they have no chance to recall and this is unfair. IMO a dog with a problem can be inconvenient, but should be inconvenient only to you, not to the rest of the world and with foster dogs I have had issues with I have always stuck to this belief.

However my dogs do not deserve to live their lives on lead because there are aggressive dogs out there. Trained dogs without issues should be free to play with other trained dogs without issues off lead. Dont get me wrong I have had dogs with issues until i have managed to train them so have been on both sides of this argument.

I do wish people with small aggressive dogs did really keep their dogs on leads rather than flexileads. If my dog who doesnt have any issues cannot use the path/track because your aggressive rat then it is not under conrol and 16ft away from you is not undercontrol.

Anyways to the original poster, it was good you didnt shout at the other owner, if only because it would have scared your dog even more and i agree, the most important thing now is your reaction, the power to make your dog fine or have issues for the rest of its life is almost entirely in your hands and down to you relaxing and not giving off panicky or anxious vibes and not rewarding anxious behaviour in your dog by comforting them


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

darren81 said:


> you could report it to the police as it would come under the dangerous dogs act but wheather they do anything as the dog didnt attack you i dont know.


It doesn't as that doesn't apply to dog on dog attacks.


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

Had a feeling they wouldnt on dog on dog.. But it does say a dog doesnt have to injure someone to come under the act but there would have to be multiple complaints and then they would only issue a control order...


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Kare:- i think you sum it up nicely!
a actually agree with all that you say there...
you have seen both sides and have made a well placed argument...


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

I hope Bailey got on ok at Vets. 



I have to say I can see if from both sides, my dogs have been attacked, and now because of that my bitch HATES other dogs, she has been through lots of training, infact we have tried everything but she just cannot stand them, so we always try to walk her away from other dogs and she is ALWAYS on a lead. 
But I get seriously annoyed as far too many people have their dogs off lead and I ahve lost count of the amount of times someones dog has come running over to her and I have shouted at the owner that she does not like other dogs and been ignored, yet as soon as she starts barking they run over. 
I do agree that people with dogs with no issues should be allowed to walk their dogs without worrying about other dogs with issues, but at the same time should dogs with issues be kept in a house and never allowed to be walked properly because of issues that simply cannot be resolved ? 
Alot of people also seem to forget that dogs are not allowed off lead in a public place and you as the owner have to be in control of your dog at ALL times, your dog being off lead is not in control and even if your dog was attacked, if the other dog is on a lead is is YOUR fault as the owner. 

I think it is wrong that people with dogs with problems are looked at differently and treated as people who clearly let their dogs run wild. 
If you let your dog off lead at least realise that their is dogs with problems. 
Which is why personally I think all dogs should be keep on leads.....use a long line if you want to give your dog some more freedom. 

Anyway back on topic I hope Bailey is ok, and will keep everything crossed that this will not effect him longterm.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Crownan said:


> How is that ever going to help anything? Its not the guys fault is it?





Rach1 said:


> because its not nice when your dog gets attacked and you see it happening... tempers run high!


Rach you summed this up nicely for me. 
Crownan....I was extremely mad and upset when I wrote this and maybe didnt use the best words. Yes my OH would have probably used some very choice words to the guy but I didnt mean he was going to beat him up in a public park or anything......if you knew me you would know im the softest person ever and hate fighting, even arguments on hear stress me out... so wouldnt let my OH do anything silly.

But in a way it is the guys fault, he is throwing balls for a toy possesive dog in an open park with lots of other dogs....I keep Bailey on a lead as he is only a pup and dont want him worrying adult dogs with his excitement as I know that can cause probs. 
But he didnt even touch the collie or the ball I was just trying to walk him on as as id been told by the owner not to throw the ball that had been dropped at our feet and as Bailey walked past the ball he was attacked.



quadrapop said:


> I havnt read all the comments but its things like this that gave my dog a fear of other dogs. Once you have the puncture looked at it might be an idea to find a training class or in some cases people let an older dog into a puppy socialisation class for the sake of boosting confidence, they let us do this with woody, we sat at the side and watched a class go on. Better sorting it quick than preventing him seeing dogs.


This might be a good idea. I was going to take him to training classes originally but I got made redundant so have been successfully training him myself while at home skint and his socialisation skills have always been top notch. 
If he appears timid or scared over the next few days ill get in contact with a trainer.

Just to let everyone know Bailey has been to the vets and had an antibiotic injection. He had a sleep before we went and woke up in a much perkier mood, he was his usual waggy self in the vets enjoying being spoilt by the receptionist and didnt scream or cower when an old grumpy dog appeared that growled at him.
Then we went onto my parents to see his reaction to their dogs and he was fine running around with them.

Ill take my usual walk tomorrow (although may stay off that field where the collie is) and see how we get on....will take treats etc etc and try and overcome this asap 

Thanks for all the kindness, reassuring comments and sharing similar personal experiences. Ill take everything on board and maybe update you all after afew more walks  xx


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

Kare said:


> If my dogs approached an on lead dog (which they do not) then got bitten/attacked it will 100% be my fault. However I do have to say I find it unsuitable to take an aggressive dog to a place where dogs and owners wish to relax and be off lead especially at peak time and also areas where other owners cannot see you coming with your dog onlead is also unsuitable, if people cant see you on a winding woodland walk they have no chance to recall and this is unfair. IMO a dog with a problem can be inconvenient, but should be inconvenient only to you, not to the rest of the world and with foster dogs I have had issues with I have always stuck to this belief.
> 
> However my dogs do not deserve to live their lives on lead because there are aggressive dogs out there. Trained dogs without issues should be free to play with other trained dogs without issues off lead. Dont get me wrong I have had dogs with issues until i have managed to train them so have been on both sides of this argument.
> 
> ...


Im sorry but what you are saying is a load of tosh! 

I pay my council tax for the upkeep of public land be it parks, forest walks etc as well as the majority of the hardworking people of this counrty. Why should I, as a lawful dog owner with my pooch on a lead be forced into doing walks at 12am in the morning just because you do not wish to obey to the laws of public land and keep your dogs on leash?

Find a piece of private land as I do; to let your dog off a lead, do not accuse me of spoiling it for everyone else!

Why should my dog be shunned like some kind of Mrs. Hyde? Just because of her natural instincts? She is no threat to humans unlike may "trained dogs"? 

Can I add that Shiner can also "stay","roll over","beg","sit","get that thing out of your mouth!"???


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

What is this rubbish about animals having to be on lead on public land? This is not and never has been a law. 

The only law along these lines is dog being on lead on a public ROAD unless working.

They have to be under control, but dogs can be under verbal control


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

the police and courts will look at a dog off lead as not being under control, any dog in a public place needs to be kept under control. I know of several people that have come un stuck by having their dog off lead and the police pointing out you cannot be in full control of your dog off lead.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Tds79 said:


> the police and courts will look at a dog off lead as not being under control, any dog in a public place needs to be kept under control. I know of several people that have come un stuck by having their dog off lead and the police pointing out you cannot be in full control of your dog off lead.


Don't think this is true - if you've done agility or good citizenship and can prove your dog has super recall then I think you'd be able to prove your dog was under full control off lead.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

*The Road Traffic Act 1988*
*It is an offence to have a dog on a designated road without it being held on a lead. Local authorities may have similar bye-laws covering public areas.*


so i suppose it does depend upon the definition of public area and your own local councils by laws!



*Dogs Act 1871*
*It is a civil offence if a dog is dangerous (to people or animals) and not kept under proper control (generally regarded as not on a lead nor muzzled). *

so i suppose this is saying if your dog is dangerous muzzle it and keep it on a lead...

these by the way are the actual wordings taken fromn the KC WEBSITE


*Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 (section 3)*
*It is a criminal offence (for the owner and/or the person in charge of the dog) to allow a dog to be ‘dangerously out of control’ in a public place, a place where it is not permitted to be, and some other areas. A ‘dangerously out of control’ dog can be defined as a dog that has injured someone or a dog that a person has grounds for reasonable apprehension that it may do so. Something as simple as your dog chasing, barking at or jumping up at a person or child could lead to a complaint, so ensure that your dog is under control at all times. If your dog injures a person, it may be seized by the police and your penalty may include a prison sentence and/or a ban on keeping dogs*.


hope this helps


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

in my experience it is not the case, as stated i know of several people that have fallen short of it. I had police tell me that in the eyes of the law a dog cannot be under full control off lead. Its a dodgy loophole that i would not want to risk so i never ever let any of mine off lead. I also dont think its fair too other owners.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

sorry phone double posted


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Helps a lot Thank you.

If you take a slightly different look, say you had a child who had behaviour difficulties or possibly a learning disability or Autistic spectrum and there was a strong possibility they would unprovoked punch other children that came near them in the park.

It isnt the childs fault, they are not doing it to be mean that is just what their brain tells them to do.

But you damn well would not blame the other children. You could hope, possibly even expect, the other parents to get their children to stay a certain distance but there is a difference between this and possibly making a whole area of the park no go for any other child. 

Yes everyone pays taxes and everyone has equal rights, but you cant reasonably expect 10-20 other park users, all of which have paid the same taxes, to halt all their activities as you wish to walk your dog who will do the best to end their dogs lives if there game of chase takes them too close.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

Kare said:


> Helps a lot Thank you.
> 
> If you take a slightly different look, say you had a child who had behaviour difficulties or possibly a learning disability or Autistic spectrum and there was a strong possibility they would unprovoked punch other children that came near them in the park.
> 
> ...



I they cannot control their dog then it is their fault, if however you shouted for your dog to "heel" and it stopped the there is no argument, were both happy.

If however it isnt as well trained as you thought and it ignored your calls and then went near my dog then, well, lets just say I wont be paying your vet bills.


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## the mighty P (Feb 6, 2010)

i walk my dog off lead all the time but i know dogs over the park are dog agressive (one of which is far larger than my dog) so when i see them i call my dog back before she even noticed they are there put her back on her lead with lots of praise but there are friendly dogs over there who's owners i chat too we let our dogs of lead together so they can play and sniff each others bums :blush: 
I think as long as you can control the dog ie its not dragging down the street literally and you have made the effort to muzzle your dog if you know they dont like dog great at least they are getting walked because when i was a kid we had a dog agressive dog and the poor thing was never taken out, 
and i dont intend to upset people or start arguments its just my personal opinion (and i respect that not every one will see things like me) its never nice when a dog gets attacked i worked iin a vets for 3 years and its horrible, BUT the main thing here the dog at the beginning of the post is OK and no doubt having extra cuddles from his mommy x


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

Kare said:


> Helps a lot Thank you.
> 
> *If you take a slightly different look, say you had a child who had behaviour difficulties or possibly a learning disability or Autistic spectrum and there was a strong possibility they would unprovoked punch other children that came near them in the park.*
> 
> ...



A child with an autism spectrum disorder is not going to maul another child though, are they? That's pretty offensive comparing disabled children to dogs

Also, as far as the law is concerned, if your dog is not on a lead then it is not under full control, 'verbal' control counts for nothing.


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

bikenut said:


> I they cannot control their dog then it is their fault, if however you shouted for your dog to "heel" and it stopped the there is no argument, were both happy.
> 
> If however it isnt as well trained as you thought and it ignored your calls and then went near my dog then, well, lets just say I wont be paying your vet bills.


For what it's worth, I agree with you


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Michelle G said:


> Have just taken Bailey for our usual lunchtime walk in the park. We meet lots of dogs and people and he loves it.
> 
> Today for a change I decided to go off the path and across the field where alot of people throw balls for their dogs. There was just 1 guy with a border collie. The collie ran over to me and dropped its ball at my feet, he seemed fine with Bailey saying hello and its owner came over and took the ball and threw it. Again it brought the ball back to me.....but I tried to walk on with Bailey because the owner said he was trying to stop him doing this.....anyway im not sure what happened next..whether Bailey got to close to his ball or something but the collie pounced on him and attacked him. Bailey was screaming, I was screaming and trying to pull Baileys lead towards me. It only lasted seconds but my poor baby was covered in saliva and screaming. I picked him straight up checked him over and couldnt find any injuries. The guy apologised and said it had never happened before.........I was far to shocked to give him the telling off I wish I could give now. Really wish my OH had been there, the guy would wish he hadnt been born.
> 
> ...


i would give him some time to calm down and forget. give him a couple of days then try him with ur moms yorkies but i would take it steady, take baby steps with him. he will be okay eventually its probably really tramtised by it. hell be okay eventually.

good luck hope he gets better.


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

Aww poor Bailey  I hope he recovers from his ordeal quickly and it doesn't have any lasting effects.

It annoys me too when people let their dogs just run upto other dogs that are on leads. I hardly ever let ours off, not unless we're somewhere secluded and I can see someone coming before they do, not because they're vicious, but because Cass gets too easily excited with 'new friends' and his recall is still a work in progress..
Now mine wouldn't (in normal situations) attack another dog. Both mine have great manners when meeting other friendly dogs and I let them say hello without worrying.
A few times however, we've had barking and snarling dogs off leads run upto us when ours are on leads. Cass hides behind my legs, but Millie is a different story. Her whole posture changes and she sits, quietly showing her teeth waiting for them to come close enough. Lucky enough, the few that have done this seem unnerved by her, and have stopped in their tracks, changed their attitude and have approached her in more of a submissive manner. This in turn changes her back into the animal loving pooch she is, and so far (touch wood) there has been no incidents.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

bikenut said:


> I they cannot control their dog then it is their fault, if however you shouted for your dog to "heel" and it stopped the there is no argument, were both happy.
> 
> If however it isnt as well trained as you thought and it ignored your calls and then went near my dog then, well, lets just say I wont be paying your vet bills.


One on one I agree, and my dogs never greet dogs on leads. Even dogs they know it is a firm rule as I have been on the other side of wanting other dogs to just let my dog walk in peace.

However I personally when in that situation would never dream of expecting say 6 or 12 or 20 dogs all happily playing in the park to have to be recalled and sat to heel just so I could walk through that park with my aggressive dog. To be blunt I would feel pig ignorant to put out all those people cause of MY problem unless there was absolutely no other way. None of your views could ever change the fact that is how I would feel


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

repeat


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

Kare said:


> One on one I agree, and my dogs never greet dogs on leads. Even dogs they know it is a firm rule as I have been on the other side of wanting other dogs to just let my dog walk in peace.
> 
> However I personally when in that situation would never dream of expecting say 6 or 12 or 20 dogs all happily playing in the park to have to be recalled and sat to heel just so I could walk through that park with my aggressive dog. To be blunt I would feel pig ignorant to put out all those people cause of MY problem unless there was absolutely no other way. None of your views could ever change the fact that is how I would feel



Like I said I would not be the one paying your vet bills due to your ignorance and lack of respect to other park users.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Luckily I would never meet you. I am far from ignorant and if your best discussion is to call people names then I feel no need to lower myself to your level.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

All this discussion about dogs on and off leads is all very well, but imao the whole thing comes down to responsible ownership and knowing your own dog.

My dog is a rescue and can be dog aggressive depending on the approach of the other dog, as he wasn't socialised as a puppy. He has great recall off the lead and doesn't stray far from me, but I do not trust him if I see another dog. I never let him off the leash unless I'm in a large open area, such as a big field or the beach, so that I can watch out for other dogs at all times. If I see a dog I call him back and put him on the leash. If I'm on a field and I'm approaching an 'entrance' onto that field I call him back and put him on the leash until we've past that opening in case someone walks through it with a dog. He's a GSD and I don't want to be responsible for giving that breed a worse reputation than it already has, but I think it's only right that he gets to run about, chase his ball and have some fun, so this is our compromise. That's what I call responsible ownership.

In my opinion if the man knew the dog was aggressive about his ball, then why did he throw it in the OP's direction???


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

The guy apparently said it had not happened before, I know if it had then he would have likely still said the same but maybe it Had never happened before.

I have lived and spent time in many different areas of the country for weeks at a time due to my husbands last job and have to say that another consideration has to be the culture of the place you are. 

As an example there is a beach here where dogs meet almost 100% freely (at least outside the holiday season when it is just locals) and almost universally those with aggressive dogs would never consider going there (one person with a boxer is actually the only person) because dogs there do freely meet and interact and very very rarely is there ever a conflict, in 2 years I have seen only 2-3. 

However another beach only say 2 miles along the coast the culture is different and all dogs and owners keep very much to themselves and would be a fair more appropriate for dogs that don't like other dogs. 

My dogs do very well on both beaches, on one I would not recall them from sniffing the other dogs as it is the expect behaviour, on the other I would walk them close to me within distance of another dog as that is the expected behaviour.

One other place I lived at the local park your practically needed a pre arranged play date set before your dog could sniff or play with another. :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

It is all about responsible dog ownership and knowing your own dogs..
3 of my dogs(GSD, rottie and a springer x collie) are perfect with recall and when they are loose I know they will come back immediately and stay down down until I tell them differently. I do this any time I see another dog or even a person/people as its not right to let your dog approach people with or without dogs. The rest of my lot vary as I have a small stupid handreared cavalier that cant be let off as he runs off until he finds a stranger who will fuss him, my old dog is a bit senile and deaf so hes only allowed off when there are 2 of us as hes a small terrier cross, my poodle is ok but can be ignorant, my staffy cross doesnt like strangers or, their dogs so shes lead walked. The other 3 are 2 lurchers who run home if they see a starnger(they are only let off the lead on the field nextdoor to my house) and my cross patterdale is so dizzy she would go home with anyone.
I love taking the first 3 to the local beach as Ive never met an aggressive dog on there and they can run loose without fear of being attacked or causing a nuisance to anyone.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> It is all about responsible dog ownership and knowing your own dogs..


Agreed. Our Springer was allowed off lead all the time in his old age as we knew he would come back - it was only if someone else's dog came barreling up to him did we put him on a lead as he was very impatient with impolite dogs. On the whole he never strayed more than a few metres away. However when he was in his first year his recall was terrible - my dad actually took insurance out on him purely because there was such a massive risk of him running off and getting hit by a car (thankfully it never happened and his recall improved significantly after about a year). He was just so excitable his hearing went 'poof!' at times. He wasn't ever interested in other dogs though so didn't run up to them - he was just overwhelmed by all the lovely smells around the estate!
But we walked my granddad's rescue Yorkshire Terrier on occasion and he would run across a whole field to see another dog, despite us going mad calling him. Because we knew he was so bad for running off, we kept him on a lead 9 times out of 10.
And at the moment I imagine our Tibetan terrier is going to have terrible recall but it's still early days


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

Kare said:


> Luckily I would never meet you. I am far from ignorant and if your best discussion is to call people names then I feel no need to lower myself to your level.



Lower yourself to my level? You have no idea of whom I am and what I do! I am a well respected member of my community and have been so for over 4 decades! 

I know the laws and you are way out of line, what you have said is a disgusting way of belittling a person without the thought nor intellect so see what is right.

You are way below my "level" I assure you!

Yet another thread that has turned into a slagging match.....

Typical...

I have said my peace, and I sincerley hope we do meet in the park, perhaps you will learn a valuable lesson and get down off your high horse, If I feel inclided I could direct you to a good vet with reasonable rates!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

bikenut said:


> Like I said I would not be the one paying your vet bills due to your ignorance and lack of respect to other park users.


I see both points, a dog that is off the lead should not approach a dog on a lead just incase it is on one for a reason and would attack if aproached by a dog. But why would you walk a dog that didn't like other dogs through a park full of dogs? Do you? Hypothetically you every 'right' to, if that's what you are saying, but surely your dog wouldn't enjoy it. If I had a dog that was stressed/fearful/aggressive around other dogs, I wouldn't take him where there was bound to be a vast amount of dogs.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

em_40 said:


> I see both points, a dog that is off the lead should not approach a dog on a lead just incase it is on one for a reason and would attack if aproached by a dog. But why would you walk a dog that didn't like other dogs through a park full of dogs? Do you? Hypothetically you every 'right' to, if that's what you are saying, but surely your dog wouldn't enjoy it. If I had a dog that was stressed/fearful/aggressive around other dogs, I wouldn't take him where there was bound to be a vast amount of dogs.



My Dog loves walking, she loves smelling everything, she often find a branch to take home. I cannot deny her right to enjoy a walk. I work 8am until 5pm so I walk her at 7am and 6pm, the same time as other dog users. 9 out of 10 keep their dogs on leads as they should. I have a friend with private land where I take her to play. But why should she and I have to avoid public places so ignorant dog owners can let their poorly trained dogs run amock?

She doesnt get stressed at the sight of other dogs (she is nearly blind due to untreated blind eye when she was a pup). She actually want to kill them, perhaps due to her upbringing (fighting dog perhaps?). I got her when she was 2 so who knows. It is only when the other dog is within a few feet of her that she attacks. To protect me perhaps? I dont quite know why, but it certainly isnt stress.

I should not! That is my point, if somene wants a massive dog fest, full of pooches sniffing each others rear ends then go on private land as I do and respect the laws and the other dog owners by keeping their dog on a leash. 

It is not an impossible task, I have managed for years.

I am angry at myself for getting annoyed at this mockery of a dog owner and arguing with her, it is not as if she will see sense.

Hence my final sentence.

Let them do what they want, I will not be responsible for what happens when their dog gets too close, I am not going to hang my head in shame, nor am I going to avoid public land when others are there.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

See, this is why I stick to reptiles...


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I seriously do not get why you continue to threaten my dogs with needing vets. I have said through out my dogs do NOT approach dogs on leads. If I ever had the misfortune to share a park with you our dogs would never know as we would never be in contact.

Yet, despite the fact you claim to be an upstanding citizen, repeatedly you have continued to issue threats of my dogs needing vets. As they do not approach dogs what am I to assume from that, that you would come and attack them or your dog would get away from you and attack them?

If both of these are untrue I have to say the only knowledge therefore I would have of you being in the same park as me would be if it happened frequently in which case it would be me and my friends with dogs muttering about the selfish person who thinks everyone else should have to stop what they are doing just so he can walk through with a dog he knows will kill another pet if their game of chase should happen to take them close to it.

As I have said before having a dog with problems is inconvenient, that's why people spend so long trying to raise a well socialised dog. I have picked up the issues from rescuing dogs that have not been socialised but have had the ability and desire to turn it around and have the great well trained dogs I have today, both of which visit the elderly as therapy dogs. Unfortunately for the dog with problems one side effect of its problems maybe that it is simply not suitable for it to go all the places it and its owner may desire to go. For example woodland where other dog owners cannot see you coming with your lethal weapon, in order to recall their pets to a safe distance from it Really it is about meeting other human beings 1/2 way, compromise. But as someone else has clearly stated above there is no law to say a dog must be kept on a lead, except on a public road, unless it is a dangerous dog.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

just wondering of those that walk your dogs in parks how many have read that parks by laws ? In the last 4 years i have lived in 5 different areas and worked in several more and every single area has had the by law in their parks that dogs should be kept on leads at all times. 
I think being a good dog owner also means never underestimating your dog. I have known of a few people whos dogs have always been walked off lead and for years have had no problems but for unknown reasons has run off, one even attacked a child ! I think when you become too confident is when accidents happen.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

Tds79 said:


> I think being a good dog owner also means never underestimating your dog.


exactly,they aren't furry people.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> I think being a good dog owner also means never underestimating your dog. I have known of a few people whos dogs have always been walked off lead and for years have had no problems but for unknown reasons has run off, one even attacked a child ! I think when you become too confident is when accidents happen.


I also agree.

Fortunately I could never underestimate my dog - he has so many anxieties and very high energy levels and that is like a ticking time bomb, so I have to be one step ahead of him at all times.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

if a dog ever attacked one of my dogs ...


i'd kick it into next week!

or worse...


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

: victory:


Kare said:


> I seriously do not get why you continue to threaten my dogs with needing vets. I have said through out my dogs do NOT approach dogs on leads. If I ever had the misfortune to share a park with you our dogs would never know as we would never be in contact.
> 
> Yet, despite the fact you claim to be an upstanding citizen, repeatedly you have continued to issue threats of my dogs needing vets. As they do not approach dogs what am I to assume from that, that you would come and attack them or your dog would get away from you and attack them?
> 
> ...


Im sorry but this isnt meant to offend.. you are thick! I have never once threatend your dogs!! I do not need to , why would I do that? I stated that if they came close to my dog I would not pay the vet bill. It is no threat!!?? Your argument is shelfish and laughable. 

You live in a make believe fairy, dairy land. You are not in the real world, and if we did share the same park and I did hear you muttering to your fairy dairy friends I would most definetly break out in a fit of laughter at these sad little people judging those whom obey the law and enjoy the freedom for which their father died to protect!

When you do get fined please let me know so I can have a good old chuckle, If you supply me with your email address I can ask my son to show me how to send a "e-told you so, you silly goose-card"!!!
: victory:


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

bikenut said:


> : victory:
> 
> Im sorry but this isnt meant to offend.. you are thick! I have never once threatend your dogs!! I do not need to , why would I do that? I stated that if they came close to my dog I would not pay the vet bill. It is no threat!!?? Your argument is shelfish and laughable.
> 
> ...


Bikenut, I really think it's unnacceptable to be as insulting as you are being in this thread.

From my experience, Kare is typical of dog owners. You learn the etiquette of various parks and routes and change your behaviour to be appropriate.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

I said it wasnt mean to offend, it isnt name calling it is a evaluation.

Typical of dog walkers? Ive been walking dongs since before the majority of people on this forum were born!!?? I have never once heard so much tosh. I wont be replying anymore, I have made my point and leave it at that. I regret nothing I have said and I hold myself totally responsible for all of it.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

all dogs must be leashed on public property...

a dog should never be permitted to be unleashed unless it's on private property...

period... never.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

bikenut said:


> I said it wasnt mean to offend, it isnt name calling it is a evaluation.
> 
> Typical of dog walkers? Ive been walking dongs since before the majority of people on this forum were born!!?? I have never once heard so much tosh. I wont be replying anymore, I have made my point and leave it at that. I regret nothing I have said and I hold myself totally responsible for all of it.


Sorry, should have qualified that - Kare is typical of the dog walkers I have encountered.

You can't say you have no intention of offending and then call someone thick. 

It's absolutely fine to say that you don't agree with an opinion, but you weren't doing this in my very humble opinion...


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## Scaredy cat (Jan 16, 2010)

Poor Bailey, i no how you feel my poor dog has been attacked numerous times throughout his life and when he has stood up for himself i got the blame. someone even suggested that i take him to a behaviourist because he was apparently aggressive :gasp: We even had the police round one time as my dog apparently left puncture wounds in the other dogs neck, my dog has no fangs as such, only stubs, as they were ground down by chewing bricks/stones etc before i got him. even the police said there was no way my dog could have done that.
Each time an owner said to me "oooh he has never done that before" i have had someone else come up to me and say "that dog had someones elses dog earlier,yesterday, last week etc". So in my experience they are liars and will use the same sentence again and again and then blame your dog because they can't accept the fact that their dog has aggressive tendancies. You no when a dog may be a problem when the owner lets it off and then spends the next 5 mins or more running about like a headless chicken shouting and squawking for the dog to come back. When they have got their dog back they say " i wish my dog would behave like that" i say to them "if you spent as many hours training it, it would be like mine"
the answer i always get is i don't have time!
Each time he got a bashing he would limp home and then be really depressed for a few days but soon got over it. You must make the effort to not fuss him too much but just treat him like normal, especially while out walking as he will pick up on it and it could make matters worse, you could end up with a dog with attitude. try to stick with dogs you both know and trust for a while and build both your confidences up and enjoy him. he will cope better than you think, we are the ones who make the problems.
my dog is approx 13-14 years old now (rescue dog true age unknown) i have had him for 11 years this year and he will try to avoid all dogs except his "friends". He was a P.A.T dog for a few years and one of the tests he had to pass was to mix with other dogs, this he had to do every year and always passed with flying colours :no1:
Enjoy your dog and try to forget the horrible experience. Unfortunately there are some nasty dogs out there but its what they have been taught by their owners, dogs are like kids they react to how you behave and what you let them get away with. 
give Bailey a hug and put this all behind you but always stay wary as there are a lot of unresponsible owners out there. But there are also a lot of responsible owners to and will be happy to let Bailey play with theirs.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

one thing i have noticed on thread is some people seem to think if a dog has problems it is the current owners fault, this is also something i come across off the forum as well. One of my dogs has been through several trainers, she has been checked over by countless vets and she will still go crazy at other dogs, we thought it was us and something we was doing but have since learnt she just has deep set problems due to being attacked and she may never get over it. Does this make us bad owners ? 
People with "well behaved " dogs are very lucky, but it doesnt make you any more of a responsable dog owner than those with dogs with problems. I actually think there is a lot of snobbery within dog keeping. 
Had to get that off my chest


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> one thing i have noticed on thread is some people seem to think if a dog has problems it is the current owners fault, this is also something i come across off the forum as well. One of my dogs has been through several trainers, she has been checked over by countless vets and she will still go crazy at other dogs, we thought it was us and something we was doing but have since learnt she just has deep set problems due to being attacked and she may never get over it. Does this make us bad owners ?
> People with "well behaved " dogs are very lucky, but it doesnt make you any more of a responsable dog owner than those with dogs with problems. I actually think there is a lot of snobbery within dog keeping.
> Had to get that off my chest


 complete nonsense...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I firmly believe that my dog's problems with other dogs has been caused by a lack of socialisation by his previous owners! 

I know it's not my fault, but he's my dog now and I'm responsible for him and I've learned what I can change and what I can't. He's now well trained and obedient, I've managed to change that, but no attempts by me to introduce him other dogs has made him sociable with them. He just doesn't understand the etiquette - if a dog approaches him with aggression, then he meets it with aggression. If it approaches him in a friendly excitable way, he panics and snaps at it and if it approaches him in a subservient way, belly exposed, he's not aggressive he has a sniff and is quite happy, but once that introduction is over and the dog stands up and expects to be friends and maybe jumps at him, he panics and snaps at it. I honestly can't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

So I accept that and keep in on a leash whenever there's a possibility of a dog appearing (like arouingnd a corner or through a gap in a hedge. If he's on the leash and he sees a dog and the dog ignores him he will get exceited at the sight of the dog and then walk on, but if the dog barks at him he barks back, at which point I just tell him to sit and make him sit until the dog has past us.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

feorag said:


> I firmly believe that my dog's problems with other dogs has been caused by a lack of socialisation by his previous owners!
> 
> I know it's not my fault, but he's my dog now and I'm responsible for him and I've learned what I can change and what I can't. He's now well trained and obedient, I've managed to change that, but no attempts by me to introduce him other dogs has made him sociable with them. He just doesn't understand the etiquette - if a dog approaches him with aggression, then he meets it with aggression. If it approaches him in a friendly excitable way, he panics and snaps at it and if it approaches him in a subservient way, belly exposed, he's not aggressive he has a sniff and is quite happy, but once that introduction is over and the dog stands up again he panics and snaps at it. I honestly can't see that changing in the foreseeable future.
> 
> So I accept that and keep in on a leash whenever there's a possibility of a dog appearing (like arouingnd a corner or through a gap in a hedge. If he's on the leash and he sees a dog and the dog ignores him he will get exceited at the sight of the dog and then walk on, but if the dog barks at him he barks back, at which point I just tell him to sit and make him sit until the dog has past us.


 
yep, like people... dogs can be mentally damaged... sometimes made insane...

there's too many dogs that are all screwed up mentally... and need rehabilitation... some are beyond help...

but any dog raised from a pup that is dinged-up in the head is almost entirely the fault of the owner... yeah, there may be a few dogs born nuts but they are the very rare exception...

i rehabed my little dog... she used to be nuts but now she's fine...


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

feorag my girl is very well behaved in every other way, but just terrible around other dogs. For that reason she is now walked away from other dogs. I do also believe some of her issues are from before she came to us, as other than my dogs she has never been great with other dogs, but since her second attack i think it was the final straw. 
Habu what part of what i said to you not agree with.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> feorag my girl is very well behaved in every other way, but just terrible around other dogs. For that reason she is now walked away from other dogs. I do also believe some of her issues are from before she came to us, as other than my dogs she has never been great with other dogs, but since her second attack i think it was the final straw.
> Habu what part of what i said to you not agree with.


 how many dogs do you have?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I firmly believe that everything I was told by his breeder about my dog was not true. A few days with us proved to me that he'd had no training, no discipline, no socialisation and been given no boundaries. I've no idea if he's been attacked by another dog, but certainly with a breed like GSDs socialisation as puppies is incredibly important and as he didn't even know what 'sit' meant when we got him, he'd obviously had no time spent on him at all.

Habu, there is no question that this dog has mental problems, he's totally hyper and out of his head half of the time, but maybe training and discipline when he was younger may have made him less of a problem than he is now. 

My husband and I reckon he'll be the dog we thought he was when he's about 6 or 7!!! :gasp:


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

i own 2 dogs but also look after 2.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> i own 2 dogs but also look after 2.


 nice... and your dog attacks them?


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

nope she is fine with any dog that enters the house it is just whilst she is out walking.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

feorag said:


> I firmly believe that everything I was told by his breeder about my dog was not true. A few days with us proved to me that he'd had no training, no discipline, no socialisation and been given no boundaries. I've no idea if he's been attacked by another dog, but certainly with a breed like GSDs socialisation as puppies is incredibly important and as he didn't even know what 'sit' meant when we got him, he'd obviously had no time spent on him at all.
> 
> Habu, there is no question that this dog has mental problems, he's totally hyper and out of his head half of the time, but maybe training and discipline when he was younger may have made him less of a problem than he is now.
> 
> My husband and I reckon he'll be the dog we thought he was when he's about 6 or 7!!! :gasp:


 
yes... imagine a kid locked away and not taught anything or socialized...
dogs learn from us humans and other dogs... that's why puppies are so tolerated by most adult dogs... well adjusted dogs know that they are just pups and have to learn... some people just tie a dog up to a tree all it's life and throw food at it every now and then... that's a recipe for a very frightened dog... most dog aggression issues stem from them being afraid and anxious... they react with aggression...

most dogs IMO are very confused and unsure because their owners know squat about dogs... they reward them for bad behavior... let their dogs own things and them even!...

dogs want to know the rules... dogs want confident, strong owners who are consistent...

people take dog ownership much too lightly... they are intelligent beings with innate instincts... but as pups they are unfinished work... the pack/owners has to teach them things...

it's a crying shame how otherwise good people who love dogs can unknowingly severely damage their dogs...

both my dogs are rescued dogs from the dog pound here... the little one was a bad case... but i taught her... she's a good girl now...

some dogs are irreparable though... too badly mangled psychologically...

you just do the best you can with them...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> nope she is fine with any dog that enters the house it is just whilst she is out walking.


 
see now, that's treatable... just work with her and desensitize her to strange dogs...

it's not dogs that she is afraid of then... it's strange dogs on neutral territory she seems to have a problem with...

yes, that sounds very fixable... corrections and familiarity with new dogs outside... patience also...: victory:


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

HABU said:


> nice... and your dog attacks them?


 just to point out as well she does not attack and never has she will bark, cry urinate on her self, she has in the past got into such a state she has been sick. She is a very shy dog and always has been since we got her from rescue.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> just to point out as well she does not attack and never has she will bark, cry urinate on her self, she has in the past got into such a state she has been sick. She is a very shy dog and always has been since we got her from rescue.


 
but not with dogs she knows right? only strange dogs on neutral territory... eh?

does she freak out when a strange dogs comes on her territory/home?


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

HABU said:


> see now, that's treatable... just work with her and desensitize her to strange dogs...
> 
> it's not dogs that she is afraid of then... it's strange dogs on neutral territory she seems to have a problem with...
> 
> yes, that sounds very fixable... corrections and familiarity with new dogs outside... patience also...: victory:


Thanks for that habu, this is what i do and i have noticed she is worse if walked by my partner so she is now only walked by me. I do think she is going to take time, but hopefully we will get there with her .


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> Thanks for that habu, this is what i do and i have noticed she is worse if walked by my partner so she is now only walked by me. I do think she is going to take time, but hopefully we will get there with her .


 
what not to do is react to a strange dog yourself... your dog will sense your concern... dogs do that as you know... they are the masters of body language...

you panic and she'll panic... some dogs bite with anxiety... others wimper... they are both simple and complex...

if you are confident and unconcerned when another dog gets in sight, it will help... avoiding other dogs just feeds the anxiety and makes it more ingrained and harder to mend...


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

thats the problem with my partner as he reacts. The problem we have here is people who dont put there dogs on a lead and its a nightmare. 
I have trained several problem dogs all with success, my boy was due to be put to sleep but i took him on and he is a good lad now. But like i said we will get there with her, as said before she is good in every way but this.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> thats the problem with my partner as he reacts. The problem we have here is people who dont put there dogs on a lead and its a nightmare.
> I have trained several problem dogs all with success, my boy was due to be put to sleep but i took him on and he is a good lad now. But like i said we will get there with her, as said before she is good in every way but this.


 dogs need to be leashed in public... here they get into big trouble if their dogs attack and are off leash...

i agree... unleashed?... great way for a dog to get attacked or attack another dog... or get hit by a car or train... or just shot...

or lost and picked up by the dog catcher...


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## evileye (Nov 3, 2009)

What is bailey? what breed? i know a staff (lovely dog, lovely owner, gets on with my dog) who goes for small dogs...she killed a rabbit once, wild one, i think she might mistake small dogs for rabbits.the collie may be the same.Mine is just mad. She thinks everything is play.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

HABU said:


> yes... imagine a kid locked away and not taught anything or socialized...
> dogs learn from us humans and other dogs... that's why puppies are so tolerated by most adult dogs... well adjusted dogs know that they are just pups and have to learn... some people just tie a dog up to a tree all it's life and throw food at it every now and then... that's a recipe for a very frightened dog... most dog aggression issues stem from them being afraid and anxious... they react with aggression...
> 
> most dogs IMO are very confused and unsure because their owners know squat about dogs... they reward them for bad behavior... let their dogs own things and them even!...
> ...


Totally agree with you. Dogs need confident, consistent and strong owners. If the dog hasn't got confidence in its owner, then it can try to take over in what it sees as a bad situation, except dogs often make bad decisions and that creates a mega problem.

This dog of mine has a lot of major issues and his anxieties are the worst. The high energy levels I can deal with, but his anxieties are very difficult.

Training is extremely hard, because praise is something he can't deal with - he gets so excited that the next stage he just goes stupid, so we have fairly short training sessions and I can only be very low key about praise. Also so eager to please that when he's taught something - he goes totally over the top with it. In the early days even something as simple as come and sit meant he rushed at me with such eagerness and his mouth open, so he regularly 'toothed' me!!! On the other hand, when he knows he's done something wrong he is often sick. 

So a very difficult dog to train or be around and not a lot of pleasure in our walks, unless I take him to a very long 4 mile stretch of beach in the winter when it's quiet and he can really enjoy himself.


evileye said:


> What is bailey? what breed? i know a staff (lovely dog, lovely owner, gets on with my dog) who goes for small dogs...she killed a rabbit once, wild one, i think she might mistake small dogs for rabbits.the collie may be the same.Mine is just mad. She thinks everything is play.


Bailey is a cross Shar Pei.


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