# The Man Who Injects Venom TV Show



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Everyone who is interested in hots should watch The Man Who Injects Venom this Wed 14th April at 8pm on Channel 5 about self-immunization with snake venoms and the possible medicinal properties...Has pick of the day in most major papers!


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## MillReps (Feb 25, 2010)

yeah saw this advertise. might be good.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

He was interviewed on "This Morning" this morning and I have to admit it was pretty fascinating! The doctor with him said he was in excellent physical condition and much healthier and 'younger' than his age would suggest! :gasp:


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

eyelasher said:


> Everyone who is interested in hots should watch The Man Who Injects Venom this Wed 14th April at 8pm on Channel 5 about self-immunization with snake venoms and the possible medicinal properties...Has pick of the day in most major papers!


 Reminder set :2thumb:.

Interested to find out what medicinal properties he's after??

I can see the possibilities with coagulants / anti coagulants etc but as for anything else surely thats better done in the labs rather than the arm


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

paulds said:


> Reminder set :2thumb:.
> 
> Interested to find out what medicinal properties he's after??
> 
> I can see the possibilities with coagulants / anti coagulants etc but as for anything else surely thats better done in the labs rather than the arm


Usually the point of self immunising is to inject yourself with small amounts of venom which hopefully will build up your immune system against the toxins so if you are bitten by the snake or snakes you are immunising against the affects will not be as bad. I have seen fooetage of people who self immunise taking a bite and the venome had a very muted effect and may have been the difference between hospital visit
But there are well documented side effects, metalic taste in the mouth wieghtloss sometimes improved vision etc its a very interesting subject


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## WhiteRabbit (Apr 6, 2010)

Iv seen the results of the research on bee venom on multiple sclerosis. 
Should be interesting


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## JAM3S (Jan 17, 2007)

Its on now. He is injecting coral snake venom which he isnt immune to. It doesnt look that scientific to me but interesting all the same.


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

very good enjoyed it..


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Usually the point of self immunising is to inject yourself with small amounts of venom which hopefully will build up your immune system against the toxins so if you are bitten by the snake or snakes you are immunising against the affects will not be as bad. I have seen fooetage of people who self immunise taking a bite and the venome had a very muted effect and may have been the difference between hospital visit
> But there are well documented side effects, metalic taste in the mouth wieghtloss sometimes improved vision etc its a very interesting subject


 I can 100% agree with injecting venom of snakes you keep in order to build immunity, they have been doing that in the states and australia to deal with allergies to bites from africanized bees and jumping ants but when he went for the coral venom it just confirmed to me that he's a bit of a tool.

It seemed at the end as well when he was told about his increased immune system and the MRSA beating venom that it was just a bit of result that something extra had came of things other than just getting on tv.

I would not be at all suprised if we dont hear next that he's been injecting MRSA!!


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Did this guy move to the UK to take advantage of the NHS? :whistling2:


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Speeple said:


> Did this guy move to the UK to take advantage of the NHS? :whistling2:


:lol2: Imagine the damage the venom would do whilst your sat waiting to be seen for 3 and a half hours


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

paulds said:


> but when he went for the coral venom it just confirmed to me that he's a bit of a tool.


 
Agreed. I could see the point behind the possible medical advantages, but he had been self injecting for 20 years apparently. Why did he start? He must have been young. 
And it seems so dangerous. Surely this is stuff better tested in a lab, not at home. 

Also the part when all three of the men were injecting the coral venom weirdly reminded me of some guys hanging out sharing some drugs. 0.o


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Darklas said:


> Also the part when all three of the men were injecting the coral venom weirdly reminded me of some guys hanging out sharing some drugs. 0.o


Yep the younger one especially seemd to me to be wanting his "fix".
Especially when he complained the effect was so mild at the 1000:1 ratio.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Darklas said:


> Agreed. I could see the point behind the possible medical advantages, but he had been self injecting for 20 years apparently. Why did he start? He must have been young.
> And it seems so dangerous. Surely this is stuff better tested in a lab, not at home.
> 
> Also the part when all three of the men were injecting the coral venom weirdly reminded me of some guys hanging out sharing some drugs. 0.o


 I think he started injecting to build resistance to the venom of the particular species he was keeping which is apparently fairly common. I've heard that after repeated dosages anti venom can actually be more harmful than the initial bite so this is done to improve the bodies resistance to the venom. Which is why it was a bit weired that he injected the Coral as he doesn't keep them and it was an entirely different type of venom all toghether.

The bit with all three of them was a bit strange, reminded me of trainspotting


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Eventhough i think its a fasinating subject i personally would not take part in self immunisation and ill take my chances with a bite and the NHS.
I have no madical training and although i have read a fair bit on the subject i still would not try it myself, although there are a few people i understand in the UK that do it it isnt as common as yoy think.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Eventhough i think its a fasinating subject i personally would not take part in self immunisation and ill take my chances with a bite and the NHS.
> I have no madical training and although i have read a fair bit on the subject i still would not try it myself, although there are a few people i understand in the UK that do it it isnt as common as yoy think.


 Do UK hospitals hold anti venom for all exotic species? Also is there a usual limit to the amount of times it can be administered before it becomes counter-productive? Does it even become counter-productive?


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## WW** (Jan 20, 2008)

paulds said:


> Do UK hospitals hold anti venom for all exotic species? Also is there a usual limit to the amount of times it can be administered before it becomes counter-productive? Does it even become counter-productive?



You are much more likely to develop serious side effects, in particular allergic reactions, if you have antivenom multiple times. Having said that, if you have had a serious envenoming, then antivenom is the only thing that will deal with the problem, so there may be no option but to use it.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

WW** said:


> Having said that, if you have had a serious envenoming, then antivenom is the only thing that will deal with the problem, so there may be no option but to use it.


 This is what I wondered.

I remember listening to a lecture given by a herpetologist at the Isle of White zoo. I'm sorry but it was a while ago and his name escapes me but I do remember him saying that he had been bitten by a certain cobra so many times that if he was bitten again he would need to try and ride the venom out as the last time he had the anti venom he had such a severe allergic reaction that he would almost certainly die if he had it again


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Luckily we have one of the worlds foremost Labs in the study of venoms and devlopment of antivenin in Liverpool, and one of the forum members on here is the guy who deals with the snakes at the facility. Most hospitals will request there Antivenin from there or if in the south of the country from a unit in London


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Luckily we have one of the worlds foremost Labs in the study of venoms and devlopment of antivenin in Liverpool, and one of the forum members on here is the guy who deals with the snakes at the facility. Most hospitals will request there Antivenin from there or if in the south of the country from a unit in London


 Do the hospitals in the UK readily stock antivenin or are they ordered and express couriered when an emergency occurs?

I would assume the facility in Liverpool would export the majority of it's stock and only hang on to the minimal amount? Also the facility in London, is it also a research institute or more of a depository?

Sorry for asking so many questions


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## WhiteRabbit (Apr 6, 2010)

WhiteRabbit said:


> Iv seen the results of the research on bee venom on multiple sclerosis.
> Should be interesting


Dam it i missed this! i was in the middle of looking for the remote and wandered off online!


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

WhiteRabbit said:


> Dam it i missed this! i was in the middle of looking for the remote and wandered off online!


Demand Five | watch The Man Who Injects Venom


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Usually the point of self immunising is to inject yourself with small amounts of venom which hopefully will build up your immune system against the toxins so if you are bitten by the snake or snakes you are immunising against the affects will not be as bad. I have seen fooetage of people who self immunise taking a bite and the venome had a very muted effect and may have been the difference between hospital visit
> But there are well documented side effects, metalic taste in the mouth wieghtloss sometimes improved vision etc its a very interesting subject


 thats how they create anti venin, use it on horses over time untill its immune an then use the white blood cells from the horse and use it as antivenin


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## WhiteRabbit (Apr 6, 2010)

Gaboon said:


> Demand Five | watch The Man Who Injects Venom


Much appreciated! : victory:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

STReptiles said:


> thats how they create anti venin, use it on horses over time untill its immune an then use the white blood cells from the horse and use it as antivenin


not sure if you just adding this on to my post or if you thought i didnt know which i do and am reasonably well read in the subject of venom, anyway they also use sheep goats and even rabbits:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## rynwilliams (Jan 2, 2007)

Why do they not use Pigs or chimps as i thought these had a closer genetic match to humans?

Surely anti-venom from these would be better?

Just a thought i am no expert on blood or genetics.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

rynwilliams said:


> Why do they not use Pigs or chimps as i thought these had a closer genetic match to humans?
> 
> Surely anti-venom from these would be better?
> 
> Just a thought i am no expert on blood or genetics.


 Just a guess but I would think it is down to sheer size.

Where as a chimp would probably die from one drop of potent venom a horse could probably process this with little ill effect and the white blood cells produced would have the same effect in most mammals???


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## rynwilliams (Jan 2, 2007)

That dosent make much sense and it has already been stated that rabbits are used and they are really small. 
Also i dont think they will be injecting pure venom into these animals. I would have though that it would have been diluted.

Antivenom Manufactures

This website is quite informative and also states that horses, rabbits, sheep, goats and chickens are used most.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

rynwilliams said:


> That dosent make much sense and it has already been stated that rabbits are used and they are really small.
> Also i dont think they will be injecting pure venom into these animals. I would have though that it would have been diluted.
> 
> Antivenom Manufactures
> ...


 I stand corrected.

Thank you :2thumb:


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

A number of factors need to be considered when selecting an animal for antivenom manufacture. Horses were selected for their large blood volume, but the allergenicity (to humans) of the antibodies they produce is quite high. Those produced by sheep etc are of lower allergenicity to humans (although the risks of prion disease must be considered and 'clean' flocks used). Camels were suggested as a good source for future antivenoms, especially for use in areas where snakebite is still a huge cause of human mortality and morbidity. I am unsure what the current state of play is with camels though.

I don't think chimps would be at all suitable from an ethical, economical or practicality perspective (would you like to be the person that had to restrain and inject a chimpanzee with venom, and then collect large quantities of blood at a later date?).

David.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

DavidR said:


> I don't think chimps would be at all suitable from an ethical, economical or practicality perspective (would you like to be the person that had to restrain and inject a chimpanzee with venom, and then collect large quantities of blood at a later date?).
> 
> David.


oooh, ooh I can feel an argument coming here......where's the ethical difference between injecting a horse with venom and a chimp?


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> oooh, ooh I can feel an argument coming here......where's the ethical difference between injecting a horse with venom and a chimp?


chimps dont eat sugar cubes the same way?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

stuartdouglas said:


> oooh, ooh I can feel an argument coming here......where's the ethical difference between injecting a horse with venom and a chimp?


ooohhh come on chimps could be shown how to inject themselves. then they could deny all responsibility:2thumb:


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## jonodrama (May 7, 2009)

just watching it now. the whole program is on youtube-C5 on demand.

12mins in really interesting:no1:


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

all i can say is what a ****************** idot!:devil:, he was disapointed that he didnt get a nasty reaction at one point, needs his head seeing to if you ask me:lol2:


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## leeh1985 (Dec 6, 2006)

STReptiles said:


> all i can say is what a ****************** idot!:devil:, he was disapointed that he didnt get a nasty reaction at one point, needs his head seeing to if you ask me:lol2:


Totally agree.

I watched this program and the guy acted like a t**t. I understand the concept of self injecting but this guy was being an arse about it. Was it me or was this just another person trying to get on t.v?


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

> oooh, ooh I can feel an argument coming here......where's the ethical difference between injecting a horse with venom and a chimp?


Thankfully in this situation (as in most) it is not my opinion that counts, but that of the home office. Since 1997 (or thereabouts) the use of great apes has been banned in medical testing. Luckily using chimps to produce antibodies would have no advantages, and lots of major disadvantages (disease transmission and cost being the main examples I can think of).

David.


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## Belfast_Phasmid_Keeper (Apr 16, 2009)

watched the program on sunday and after he got to USA i had a feeling i had he the doctor guy before and tthen it came to me today...Kevin from EGGHEADS...i know your all going thats it lol 

Think the guy needs to take a long lie down on a couch and talk over some issues.


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