# Beginner handling questions



## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

I'll be moving into a flat on the 4th of November and will be picking up the snake on the 11th or so (1 week to verify the terrarium is perfect) luckiliy I was able to clear it with the gf to get a carpet python (first snake). I originally wanted a Jungle Jag but they are almost non-existent in the cambridgeshire area (I want to buy it from a reptile store, I don't want to get it from a forum) so I am going to check out a bredli in a store nearby.

My question is how do you approach the snake to pick it up? I was told not to come at the snake from the top but what if it's in the hide? How will I know it doesn't want to be held? 

To clear things up, I'm not afraid to get bit and rather enjoy the pain (I catch all sorts of snakes back home in the wild to relocate them to safer places I.E. off streets, out of parking lots..etc) I just want to ensure the snake doesn't hate me or stresses out


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

No real way of telling. But there are some obvious signs, for instance, if the snake is striking the glass of the viv if you walk by then you can expect a bite if you put your hand in. The best way is experience, you will soon work it out : victory: 

A couple of no no's though, don't go near it if you have been handling mice etc. If in shed may well be grumpy so also another time to steer clear. Try not to surprise it. If its doesn't see you or is asleep, which is not always easy to tell then gently place your hand on its flank so it knows you are there, and gauge the reaction.


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

Do they still flick their tongues when they are asleep? Why would it be striking the glass? Does that mean it is hungry or just excited?

I want to make sure I give the snake what it needs but I'm selfish and want to hold it as much as possible too :blush:


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

Don't think flick their tongues when asleep, but saying that just because I have not seen it does not mean it does't happen 

Striking the Viv is usually a defensive thing as it feels insecure, if they do this then firstly move them to a place where you dont often walk pass and also give it more hides/cover etc until it hopefully settles down. 

All these things will a breeze for you, the hardest part is going to be DO NOT HANDLE FOR THE FIRST WEEK, its a toughie I know, but it will need time to settle in. Also dont handle for 48 hours after feeding.


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

Herpster said:


> Don't think flick their tongues when asleep, but saying that just because I have not seen it does not mean it does't happen
> 
> Striking the Viv is usually a defensive thing as it feels insecure, if they do this then firstly move them to a place where you dont often walk pass and also give it more hides/cover etc until it hopefully settles down.
> 
> All these things will a breeze for you, the hardest part is going to be DO NOT HANDLE FOR THE FIRST WEEK, its a toughie I know, but it will need time to settle in. Also dont handle for 48 hours after feeding.


From what I've read all over and even on here I knew to leave the snake alone to settle for the first week or two once I move it into my terrarium.

You reccommend that he be left alone for 48 hours after feeding though? If I feed him every 10 days that only leaves 8 to handle him though  I don't want to push it but I've heard 24 hours after a feed is usually fine.. I guess I'll see how he feels 24 hours after his first feed and report back


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

24-48 hours, depends on the snakes metabolism, so said 48 to be on the careful side :2thumb: As long as it doesn't regurge then its all good.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

If it is in an s shape thats striking position so a big no-no. TBH i just put my hand in and pick mine up, if you are going to get bitten you are going to get bitten lol


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## SirSlithers (May 8, 2010)

TEENY said:


> If it is in an s shape thats striking position so a big no-no. TBH i just put my hand in and pick mine up, if you are going to get bitten you are going to get bitten lol


You could do a lot worse than listen to Teeny's advice.... of course I'm sure you could do much better as well :Na_Na_Na_Na:

On a serious note on occasion you do have to just take the bite to show the snake its not going to put you off. Either that or accept that your not going to handle that snake.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

What a lot of nonsense.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> What a lot of nonsense.


What is ??? 
The advice i have given is to my ind sound. I have a fair few snakes, nearly all are pretty docile but we all have the odd one thats a biter, does that stop us from handling ?? Not on your nelly, you just put your hand in and pick it up. This is a little baby snake he is talking about, worst case scenario it will feel like being slapped with a bit of velcro :lol2:


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Not your advice in particular (although you don't know it is a baby). 

I should have held back.


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

Podarcis said:


> Not your advice in particular (although you don't know it is a baby).
> 
> I should have held back.


How about being useful and explaining why the advice here is nonsense and educating us?


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> Not your advice in particular (although you don't know it is a baby).
> 
> I should have held back.


No need to hold back, maybe just elaborate on what you think is nonsense so that the OP can have views from all sides. The hobby is made up of loads of people that have different views, that is a good thing sometimes.This isn't intend as a snipe, just interested what you views are tbh
This is how i came to my little snake conclusion lol

4 posts and all asking advice says they are new to hobby, terrarium not viv says it is going to be quite small also he is planning on getting from shop, most shops only sell hatchlings and smaller snakes, the larger ones are normally for viewing, and tbh not many new keepers will buy an adult snake anyway.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Apologies, I was a bit rude.

OK, well, firstly, you mention you "catch snakes all the time".So you should know how to pick them up, one would assume. Secondly, there is no real need, bar medical emergency to remove a snake from its hide. If something is skittish, leave it somewhere to feel safe.

A snake will strike for one of 2 reasons; in defence, or because a feeding response is triggered. _Morelia_ are a genus of snakes which are particularly sensitive to motion, in my experience, so hand movements around the snake when hungry may trigger this. Defensive bites in most snakes are prefaced by some form of defensive display (hissing, puffing, coiling, tail waving/vibrating). So long as a snake 'recognises' you are neither predator nor prey it is unlikely to bite. My CCPs are strike-fed in their vivs.

As for the post-feed handling; if you are feeding in a viv, there is no need to handle for a while. So long as the handling is brief and gentle (such as carefully supporting the animal from feeding box back to viv) and the food item small (no wider than head), the snake can be moved (not 'handled' in the longer sense) soon after it has fully swallowed the prey.

Learn to read the animal and you won't go far wrong. Don't handle for the sake of it, or come to expect bites as the norm. Contrary to advice on here, a snake that bites is an unhappy snake with an unhappy keeper, usually.

(And many shops sell adult animals)


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

Podarcis said:


> Apologies, I was a bit rude.
> 
> OK, well, firstly, you mention you "catch snakes all the time".So you should know how to pick them up, one would assume. Secondly, there is no real need, bar medical emergency to remove a snake from its hide. If something is skittish, leave it somewhere to feel safe.
> 
> ...



Interesting observation on the Morlelia movement sensitivity, perhaps their large heat pits are the culprit?


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> Apologies, I was a bit rude.
> 
> OK, well, firstly, you mention you "catch snakes all the time".So you should know how to pick them up, one would assume. Secondly, there is no real need, bar medical emergency to remove a snake from its hide. If something is skittish, leave it somewhere to feel safe.
> 
> ...


I am glad you have aired your views on this too, as i agree with a lot of your post it has to be said. Although i will say that the bit in bold is not strictly true in my eyes, my king is a biter, she was bought as a biter and has continued to do so, some snakes do just bite. I know she is going to do it, but you still have to handle biters to check them over, bathe them if needed etc. I expect to get bitten every time and she never disappoints lol

The shops thing is news to me, all shops that i go to trade in baby snakes, all adults are for display only, surely this is the same in MOST shops, maybe not all but most ???


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## 0123456789 (Feb 18, 2011)

GhostBlade said:


> I'll be moving into a flat on the 4th of November and will be picking up the snake on the 11th or so (1 week to verify the terrarium is perfect) luckiliy I was able to clear it with the gf to get a carpet python (first snake). I originally wanted a Jungle Jag but they are almost non-existent in the cambridgeshire area (I want to buy it from a reptile store, I don't want to get it from a forum) so I am going to check out a bredli in a store nearby.
> 
> My question is how do you approach the snake to pick it up? I was told not to come at the snake from the top but what if it's in the hide? How will I know it doesn't want to be held?
> 
> To clear things up, I'm not afraid to get bit and rather enjoy the pain (I catch all sorts of snakes back home in the wild to relocate them to safer places I.E. off streets, out of parking lots..etc) I just want to ensure the snake doesn't hate me or stresses out


Slightly irrelevant to the thread, you say your in Cambridge, have you tried ameyzoo? very good shop in herts a bit far but everytime i have been well worth it.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

I often think of snake-feeding as being like the fire triangle (fuel-oxygen-heat) but with movement-scent-body heat instead! I have found if the prey is cold and still, it won't be touched. Warm and moving is what they like. I recommend providing branches for some climbing and feeding with tongs. 

The eyes (which like a cat's have more rods than cones, or the other way round) are for detecting movement in low light.

(Edited response to Teeny;Actually Ameyzoo was where I had in mind - and happiness in snakes is hard to measure, but I see biting as a sign of stress with most, but point taken).


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

TEENY said:


> What is ???
> The advice i have given is to my ind sound. I have a fair few snakes, nearly all are pretty docile but we all have the odd one thats a biter, does that stop us from handling ?? Not on your nelly, you just put your hand in and pick it up. This is a little baby snake he is talking about, worst case scenario it will feel like being slapped with a bit of velcro :lol2:


If I get the snake I'm going to check out on friday it's a year old 3 ft Bredli carpet python, may be a baby to you but it's perfect size/age for me


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> I often think of snake-feeding as being like the fire triangle (fuel-oxygen-heat) but with movement-scent-body heat instead! I have found if the prey is cold and still, it won't be touched. Warm and moving is what they like. I recommend providing branches for some climbing and feeding with tongs.
> 
> The eyes (which like a cat's have more rods than cones, or the other way round) are for detecting movement in low light.
> 
> (Edited response to Teeny;Actually Ameyzoo was where I had in mind - and happiness in snakes is hard to measure, but I see biting as a sign of stress with most, but point taken).


Interesting way of thinking of it, i agree totally with this, my snakes are not interested in food unless it is warm and moving ( love making the little prey dance lol) The warmth is what sopreads the scent i think, this is what gets the inital attention, then the movement makes the intsincts kick in.

I see your view that biting means stress in most but surely there are some that just do it ?? this girl is a law unto herself, shes been this way since i bought her from a show all s up and striking at her box and was told she was a bit on the bitey side lol, she was prolapsed due to a bad probing to see what sex she was and non feeding. She took a lot of time and patience, and assist feeding for 6 months or so but she is now healthy and catching up on growth, will never be a massive snake but she makes up for it in attitude lol


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

GhostBlade said:


> If I get the snake I'm going to check out on friday it's a year old 3 ft Bredli carpet python, may be a baby to you but it's perfect size/age for me


I wasn't mocking you, i just couldn't see that your first one would be a big old thing lol.
That is not a baby tbh, thats a decent sized snake and at a decent age too


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

The question of a learned response to previous negative experience is an interesting one - negative reinforcement has been used to train Black mambas. I have a corn snake which bites, but it was also badly treated previously.

With Boas and Pythons, they often have specific heat-receptors (boas are not so visible) so this is sense in itself.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> The question of a learned response to previous negative experience is an interesting one - negative reinforcement has been used to train Black mambas. I have a corn snake which bites, but it was also badly treated previously.
> 
> With Boas and Pythons, they often have specific heat-receptors (boas are not so visible) so this is sense in itself.


I dunno if it is coz of previous treatment bth, i think she just likes kissing me  lol


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

Podarcis said:


> Apologies, I was a bit rude.
> 
> *OK, well, firstly, you mention you "catch snakes all the time".So you should know how to pick them up, one would assume.* Secondly, there is no real need, bar medical emergency to remove a snake from its hide. If something is skittish, leave it somewhere to feel safe.
> 
> ...


To be 100% fair, what's bolded is like saying someone who flies all the time would know how to land a plane in case of emergency. I've caught snakes but I have no idea what I'm doing. I grab wild snakes by the tail and hold them away from my body til I can grab them near the head to prevent getting bitten. I'm like the extremely untrained snake handler that wants to do the right thing but has only picks up the snakes I know are harmless.

As to the other issue, I call it terrarium because that's all I've ever heard it called until I read a few posts here and saw that it was called a vivarium, or viv.

Your post leads me to another question, is it reccommended to feed the snake in a separate location than its 'viv'? I've heard both responses that it's good to feed in the viv and bad. Bad because they could consume substrate, feces or might even attack more because it won't know the difference when it's being reached at to be held or reached in to be fed. Tongs was the method instructed to me for in-house viv feeding but I want to explore both aspects.

If reccommended to feed in a separate feeding location, I read a bit higher that you can gently handle the snake back into the viv after the meal is completely consumed. Is it pretty docile right after a feeding to allow that? I don't know if you can tell but I want to be the best owner possible and not create tension in the snake because I didn't ask the correct questions.


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

TEENY said:


> I wasn't mocking you, i just couldn't see that your first one would be a big old thing lol.
> That is not a baby tbh, thats a decent sized snake and at a decent age too


I know, right! I can't stop talking about it at work and at home (hotel atm) cause I've wanted a snake for at least 15 years. Childhood dreams becoming a reality is pretty awesome.. The first one I saw was a jungle jag sibling but didn't have the colors I wanted but it was the same age/size.


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

GhostBlade said:


> To be 100% fair, what's bolded is like saying someone who flies all the time would know how to land a plane in case of emergency. I've caught snakes but I have no idea what I'm doing. I grab wild snakes by the tail and hold them away from my body til I can grab them near the head to prevent getting bitten. I'm like the extremely untrained snake handler that wants to do the right thing but has only picks up the snakes I know are harmless.
> 
> As to the other issue, I call it terrarium because that's all I've ever heard it called until I read a few posts here and saw that it was called a vivarium, or viv.
> 
> ...


Feeding in or out of the viv is a large debate. Reasons to feed out of the viv are people are worried about "impaction" (swallowing substrate and blocking up the passage), but on the other hand trying to put a snake back in a viv in feeding mode can be a little hard.

Feeding in the viv can associate the snake with opening the door and food so you could get a very food orientated snake every time you go near the viv.

Keeping snakes is more about what works for you and the snake not what works for everyone and all snakes. I personally feed in the viv and have had no problems.


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

Herpster said:


> Feeding in or out of the viv is a large debate. Reasons to feed out of the viv are people are worried about "impaction" (swallowing substrate and blocking up the passage), but on the other hand trying to put a snake back in a viv in feeding mode can be a little hard.
> 
> Feeding in the viv can associate the snake with opening the door and food so you could get a very food orientated snake every time you go near the viv.
> 
> Keeping snakes is more about what works for you and the snake not what works for everyone and all snakes. I personally feed in the viv and have had no problems.


It's good to hear there are more ways than one. I will be feeding it in the viv at first and give that a trial run before I try anything else. Here's to hoping it goes alright :2thumb:


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

That's why forums create such "debate" Yes we know snakes need a certain temperature or should eat mice/rats and not cornflakes, but the rest of it is open to discussion based on experiance and knowledge with that particular snake. Snakes have only really been kept as a "pet" for the last 30 years, dogs and cats have been pets for a lot longer and therefore the information out there has been tried and tested.


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## jona (Jan 1, 2009)

GhostBlade said:


> To be 100% fair, what's bolded is like saying someone who flies all the time would know how to land a plane in case of emergency. I've caught snakes but I have no idea what I'm doing. I grab wild snakes by the tail and hold them away from my body til I can grab them near the head to prevent getting bitten. I'm like the extremely untrained snake handler that wants to do the right thing but has only picks up the snakes I know are harmless.
> 
> As to the other issue, I call it terrarium because that's all I've ever heard it called until I read a few posts here and saw that it was called a vivarium, or viv.
> 
> ...


None of my snake are feed seperatly from there rubs/viv's & do well

Some say feed in diffrent rub/viv & other say do feed in rub/viv
Either way it's up to the keeper


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## GhostBlade (Oct 25, 2011)

jona said:


> None of my snake are feed seperatly from there rubs/viv's & do well
> 
> Some say feed in diffrent rub/viv & other say do feed in rub/viv
> Either way it's up to the keeper


I got to feed the bredli in the terra on Friday in which he tagged the mouse on the tongs from his perch  It was so awesome!

I don't think I'll have a problem feeding this awesome guy anywhere in the terra 

I got so excited that I bought him straight away, can't bring him home for another week though  Oh well, Friday I move into my new flat, Saturday I go and buy all of the equipment and Sunday I'll pick him up)

*Random question,

The guy at the reptile store told me that heat mats were a thing of the past and that reptile owners were trying to stray away from them mainly because the air in the tank could be cool while the bottom is warm misleading the snake to burn it's belly. Is this true? I was originally going to get a heat pad for half the tank and a heat lamp ( 12 hours light, 12 hours light off - continuing heat though ) but now I'm considering just the heat lamp. Ideas?*


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

GhostBlade said:


> I got to feed the bredli in the terra on Friday in which he tagged the mouse on the tongs from his perch  It was so awesome!
> 
> I don't think I'll have a problem feeding this awesome guy anywhere in the terra
> 
> ...


How exciting for you .
I use heat mats with all my snakes the corns and king have it as only heat source( boas and royal as background heat at night if needed). They are all statted so cannot get hot enough to burn the snake. Well not in my experience so far anyway.


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