# Dart Frog Tanks.



## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Morning.

First time posting on the amphibian side of the forum, I am after some advice please.

I want to build a collection of dart frogs, but I'm having trouble finding suitable tanks.
I don't want to use exo terra, ideally something that will hold humidity and stop fruit flys escaping.
i just wondering where you all get your tanks from.
Thanks.


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## pemb (Oct 16, 2008)

rainforest vivs or DMS vivaria make tanks especially for dart frogs, good prices aswell.

I currently have 2 set up and use exo terra's, so it is possible with a few minor alterations. i have sellotaped clingfilm over the top of mine to keep in the humidity and sellotaped across the vents at the front below the doors, depending on your tank you may have big gaps where the doors attach to the rest of the tank, this can also be sorted by either using a strip of sellotape or a thin strip of silicone, if done neatly the alterations are barely visible.

These alterations also help prevent fruit flies from escaping


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## lsuvr (Mar 1, 2013)

Dartfrog - Vivaria
Vivariums
DMS Vivaria - Home


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thank you both.


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

Personally I have a DMS and it's fab. I am sure the others are just as good. I didn't have much luck with my Exo but apparently they can be fly proofed but for the cost of a DMS which is ready to use straight off I don't know why you'd bother.


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## pemb (Oct 16, 2008)

Wingnut2711 said:


> Personally I have a DMS and it's fab. I am sure the others are just as good. I didn't have much luck with my Exo but apparently they can be fly proofed but for the cost of a DMS which is ready to use straight off I don't know why you'd bother.


Yes id only bother using an exo terra if you already had one, if not id buy from those listed already as they're made for PDF's and a fair bit cheaper than an exo terra


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Sorry to be a pain, I'm new to keeping frogs.

I have been looking at the websites above and the tanks, what is the bottom of the tank for? Drainage balls or water?

I want to put live plants and a waterfall, mister and rain system in it, along with lighting etc.

Would a tube be best for UV and plant growing?

Again thanks for your help.


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

tomsdragons said:


> Sorry to be a pain, I'm new to keeping frogs.
> 
> I have been looking at the websites above and the tanks, what is the bottom of the tank for? Drainage balls or water?
> 
> ...


If you are going to keep darts the bottom can be a layer of drainage balls, a thin membrane and then a soil mix for planting into + leaf litter. However some on here do things differently, Part of me wished I did too, and have false bottoms (make your own or order it with the tank). This does away with the need for a drainage layer and soil. I believe Mike uses peat plates which look great. As far as I am aware you can't plant into these but I actually only have one plant in my actual soil base. 

Hopefully he'll read this, he has a great thread he may link for you about his collection. One thing I wonder is how do the custodians get along with this system? Hopefully he'll fill us in.

I'm pretty sure everyone will try to talk you out of a waterfall as they seem to be aggro but that's something you can decide for yourself.

I have a mistking misting system which is great and I would recommend, again other have many more frogs than me and do it via a sprayer and are more than happy to continue that way.

I have a Jungle Dawn for plant growth and I could only squeeze in a compact UV bulb, some don't use it at all, some do, it's worth reading through some threads and getting a feel for it.

Marc.


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thanks Marc for the info.

I plan on buying a 5ft tank and using it purely for viewing pleasure.

I plan to keep the strawberry poison frogs, £300 a pair.
I have looked into having fish etc but I just want to create a little bit of the rain forest in my front room.

I will continue to watch YouTube videos and get a few ideas. : victory:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I`ll just add to Marcs post as he has it sort of summed up already.
If you want to see how I`ve done my vivs as Marc mentioned have a nosey here http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/1044580-my-frogroom.html
The peat plates are so much cleaner and tidier.
Okay they`re not everyones cup of tea but they sure as hell work for me.
I also use Arcadia Jungle Dawns and they`re an awesome lamp.
I don`t use UV and use supplements instead as do many other keepers.
Springtails and woodlice are thriving Marc. They find little nooks and crannies to hide in.
Waterfalls are more hassle than they`re worth, that's all I`ll say on that.
My vivs are all by DMS Vivaria - Amphibian vivaria and can`t be faulted, and he also delivers if needed.
The false bottoms allow excess water to drain into a gully at the front where you can either fit a drain or syphon the water out with a turkey baster.
But bear in mind Tincs and other frogs enjoy being able to sit in the water so the gully can be used to hold a shallow amount of water for that purpose.


Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thank you Mike.

I must admit after spending all day researching I think I will pass on the waterfall.

I think I'm going to go for a setup that has a lot of moss covered branches, and have many hights and dimensions to it.
I like the idea of having hanging plants and I want to maybe incorporate water dripping off these into a small pool that I will make.

I will have a look at the above manufactures and see what the price would be on a 5ft tank.

All I can say is if my tank looks half as good as some of those on YouTube I will be very happy. :notworthy:


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Are these any good from swell??..

Swell Terrarium 90 x 45 x 60cm | Swell Reptiles

Or the larger one of these?

http://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/rep...rrariums-1177/komodo-nano-habitat-455399.html

I am looking at these as they can be delivered, and I think I will make a smaller Eco system, and learn to manage it before I go into a 5ft project.


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

tomsdragons said:


> Are these any good from swell??..
> 
> Swell Terrarium 90 x 45 x 60cm | Swell Reptiles
> 
> ...


The swell one looks just like an exo and will need work to adapt it and maintain humidity. Give Dale at DMS a call, he'll give you a price and deliver it to your door and I would bet it's no more expensive than the swell one.


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

If I was to buy the DMS tanks, can the UV get through the glass??


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

Apparently UV does not travel through a standard glass but there is a strip of mesh along the top the bulb will be able to penetrate through. It will reduce the UV but will still be enough if you choose to use it.


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thank you.

I'm looking to use live plants and built a mini exo system, what is the best option? A uv tube running over the mesh of a bulb on a clamp?

Thanks again, and sorry for all the questions, just want it to be perfect.


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Can someone explain what these levels do?
Why the steps and layers?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

The raised front part immediately behind the doors is a mesh vent.
Immediately behind that is the gully between the vent and the raised false bottom.


Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

How high would the false bottom go up to? Should I use hydro balls or something else?

Thanks for you reply.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

The false bottom is about 40mm high.
What you do with it is your choice.
I just lay peat plates onto it and go from there.
The excess water drains off into the gully where you can have a drain fitted or manually drain it yourself.


Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

And a syringe of some sort would suck that out ok?

Thanks again.


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## anni (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm Never really understood the negatives of the Exos. Admittedly the tops are a bit over vented but I replaced it with a sheet of twin-wall plastic sheet. That gave me the opportunity to install a centralised fogging system (yes I do use them). The plants thrive. Apart from the usual viv.plants Iuse those sold for aquatics such as Echinodorus sp. etc. The frogs love it and sit out in the mist.
As for waterfalls I have never seen the problem with them. We have them in all of our 14 vivs.They are cheap to buy and run,2-3watts,rarely if ever clog and are reliable,many of ours still running after a few years. The frogs sit either in or next to the flow and if as you say it is to be a display unit they are indispensable.
They can also be useful for water removal.
One last thought, I can't stand sliding doors.Unless one is aware the doors are fully closed and the runners are not fouled,they are very prone to be positioned for inmates to escape. Even brushing against them can open them enough unless one of those ugly locks is fitted.
Terry


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thanks for your input Terry.

I have looked into the exo terra tanks but the others (linked in previous posts) are cheaper and already made to reduce fruit fly escapes and keep higher humidity.
Basically add layer by layer and build it, the only thing I do like about exo terra is the canopy and how smart and tidy they look.

If I did buy exo terra and used the canopy and uv bulb would I still need to put a plastic layer over the mesh or just cover it with finer mesh? Would that allow the uv to get through for the pants?


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

It is definitely a case of each to their own. It wasn't so much the top that was the issue it was the fruit flies coming out of the front vent. I see no point in buying something to modify when you can but something that is usable straight away. I have never had an issue with sliding doors but can see they may not be everyones cup of tea. I have always likened my DMS to Alcatraz for fruit flies, I am yet to have one escape.

As far as UV goes it is for the benefit of the frogs, not so much the plants, they need certain wavelengths to thrive which is why the jungle dawn is proving so popular, although there is also debate on that as other use cheaper lights and have great success. It's a case of listening what everyone else has done and cherrypick the bits that suit you. It's a learning process and trial and error, I've made plenty of mistakes and avoided some costly ones because of the guys on here.


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## anni (Aug 15, 2010)

To start with Tom, dart frogs do not need uv light and nor do plants ,just consider green houses.It is a waste of time and money. As for transmission reduction through mesh ,depending on mesh size ,it is around 15% and on finer meshes can approach 25%.this of course applies to all light visible or not. 
As for venting,my vivs.are almost completely sealed and venting driven by the fogging system. Exo tops can be completely removed and replaced with modified tops,or as they now use stainless mesh a piece of plastic laid in place reducing ventilation (previously they rusted). I am using LED strip lights on top of the plastic only drawing 10watts. I have never used the canopy it sits in the cupboard 
I personally have never been troubled with fruit fly escapees. But there again accessing the inside of any viv.will facilitate the escape of any inhabitants.
Don't misunderstand me I am not extolling the Exo Terra as a heaven sent answer to dart frog husbandry,they have their short comings,what viv doesn't?
but they are well made and good to use


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

But your are extolling the exo terras virtues simply by saying you`ve had no issues with them and saying nothing good about a purpose made viv.
As Tom says, why buy a viv to modify it when in fact you can buy one cheaper made fit for purpose, and ready to use.
Exo terras are in fact cheap made and in time will prove that.
As for having a sliding door open by just brushing against it?
I wish mine opened that easily.


Mike


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## anni (Aug 15, 2010)

No I repeat I have not extolled any virtue to the Exo. I have given as wingnut suggests an alternative approach and no I have not had any issues with them at all .Some of mine have been in continual use for 5years. I made a point of not detracting from the use of other makes just that there are alternative routes to a required goal.The systems I use may not be suitable for Tom but with some initiative aspects of it could be.
As I said ,I don't understand why such partisan views exist on such things. The philosophical perception of perfection does not transfer to the pragmatic world and with this thought in mind I thought I would do what I believe is the reason for the forums,the exchange of ideas. Hope Tom appreciated my initiative.
And Tom don't forget that waterfall.
Terry


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Thank you all for your input and advice it's greatly appreciated.

Tomorrow I will be making a call to DMS.
My plans have changed slightly and I'm going to be purchasing 6-8 45x45x45.

My reason is simple, I'm not looking to breed, but keep more of the rare locality's, so far my list is as follows:

Strawberry poison dart frog (Bastimentos locality)
Imitator poison dart frog
Lowland Pasco poison dart frog
Bumblebee poison dart frog (netted form) I find them so pretty.

These are the frogs I have seen on dart frog website, 

I have breed most things and kept most, but I want something I can just appreciate and enjoy viewing and maintaining.
There is also a brown and white spotted locality I have seen but so far not been able to find anyone selling them.

I would assume if I put my 45x45x45 next to each other I could run a uv tube along the mesh part and run off one starter unit.
I know they don't "require" it but I want to try and create a real mini living environment where plans and frogs can thrive, and it be basically perfect.

All your help above has been a great help.
Thank you all. : victory:


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## anni (Aug 15, 2010)

Well done Tom ,the brown and white spotted are Exidobates mysteriosus,lovely little frog,I keep and breed them myself.
Just one thought about the uv it needs to be shaded,so be aware.
All the best with your project.Terry


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Spoke to dale from DMS.

Will the species above be ok in a 40x40x40?
He also mentioned people don't really use false bottoms anymore, so why do the tanks have a shelf sliding forward from the back to the front?
I think I'm going to order 6 this time round but don't quite understand the slope, and the square bit at the front of the tanks, is that where running water collects and you can drain it from?? 

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate all your replies.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

There`s still a lot of us use false bottoms and will do in the future.
It is as explained earlier to assist drainage where water collects at the front for easy removal.
Is that what you want ?
Or do you want to build up a deep substrate with hydro leca and soil which you then have to drain manually ?



Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Hi Mike.

I completely agree it would be much easier to just syringe the old water out.
Just in discussion with rainforest and DMS to work out what will be the best option.
With the species I have mentioned in the previous post would 40x40x40 be ok for 2 males in each tank?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

To be honest I don`t know what would be the best size for Mysties.
Personally I`d be going for larger vivs as I don`t like 40 cubes, I chucked my ones in the skip.
The standard these days seems to be at least 45/50high and deep by at least 60 long.
Apart from my rearing vivs my smallest viv is 50 x 60 x 50.



Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

If 60x60x60 is better I will order them?
Will I see the 2 frogs in a set up that large?

Thanks again Mike.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

A 60 cube would be awesome for your frogs, if you have the room.
To be honest, with hindsight I think I would have been happier to go slightly deeper with my vivs as I do actually have the room to do it. 
Still, what I have works so it`s not all bad.
To ensure you see your frogs look at what their natural environment is like and try to replicate it in your viv.
Create some open spaces for them to sit in, give them plenty of leaf litter which they can hide under quickly if they feel the need.
My frogs enjoy the dark spaces which I made at the rear of my vivs so that they can sit there and look at me but I can`t see them.
I have to use a torch to see them.
It`s all down to your imagination at the end of the day.
Create higher levels for them to climb on.
Get the brain working and see what you can come up with.


Mike


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

I can't thank you all enough for the info and support.

I feel so out of depth after spending the last 15 years breeding and keeping snakes and lizards, this is so different!

I am awaiting quotes now for 60x60x60 and I have ordered a heavy duty racking system that is deep enough to hold the tanks.

I will keep you all posted, but many thanks again. :notworthy:


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Does anyone know where I can order a couple of MistKings?

Thanks.


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## tomsdragons (Dec 23, 2007)

Evening all.

Thought I would save opening a new thread.
My tanks are being made and I want to start getting some bits ready for when they arrive.

I have the following style tanks being made..
http://www.rainforestvivs.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=59


Now do I need to order these?
https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/swell-hydro-rocks/

Or these?

https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/lucky-reptile-hydro-drain/

now I know I need to put mesh over the above and then a top substrate, and recommendations?

Thanks again.


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