# Musk Turtles and Tropical Fish



## Neocortical (Sep 12, 2013)

Hi, I've just bought a tank (64litres) and have decided to go Tropical. However, a friend of mine has the exact same tank, Tropical, and has Musk Turtles. I saw some of these in a local reptile shop recently and was told they can be mixed with fish, but, I didn't ask what sort, cold, tropical and what species in particular, I'm interested in adding these to my aquarium but of course don't want to harm the fish too..

Now my question(s) are;

_Can Musk Turtles live with coldwater or tropical fish, if at all?_

_Some fish I am looking at getting are the following, Columbian Shark, Swordtail, Corydoras, and Blue Armoured Shrimp, would these be a target to the Musk Turtle?_

_Musks like Turtle Pellets, if the fish decide to eat leftovers of any they find will this harm the fish and Vise Versa, will fish food harm the Turtle, I have researched a little to find out that Musk Turtles can eat water fleas (Daphnia) but only once a week as it's considered a treat, but a common food I would use would be bloodworm and daphnia, is this bad?_

_Musks produce alot of waste, would a standard 2 stage filter be strong enough to cover one Musk Turtle?_

_And last question, If the Musk Turtles are allowed to live with fish, like in my situation, would they still need a basking spot if in a Tropical tank?_

I will also be using the product Exo Terra Magnet Floating Island (Medium) for the Turtle to come out of the water.

Really appreciate any help and advice, just don't want to do the wrong thing, but at the same time I'm after the best of both.


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

You should of posted this in the shelled section. A 64 litre tank is too small for a turtle. The rule of thumb is 40 litres per inch of shell, musks can grow to 5 inches, do the math.

A basking area, and heat/uv light is needed, they are a temperate species, not tropical, so room temperature water is fine.

Post your questions in the shelled section.


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## Neocortical (Sep 12, 2013)

Cheers, A tad new to RFUK.

But this helps, I didn't even realise Musks can get that big, I was told by my mate that they only get around 15-20cm so didn't really think of it as a problem, the person in the reptile shop also recommended a 2 1/2 - 3ft tank for a Musk too as Terrapins get alot bigger.

Will copy and paste my message into that topic, was only due to mixing one with the other in an aquarium I thought I'd get the answers I needed from this section.

Thanks.


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

I think you need to look at a tape measure....15cm is bigger than 5 inches.

15 cm = 5.9 inches


Regardless, your tank is too small.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Neocortical said:


> Hi, I've just bought a tank (64litres) and have decided to go Tropical. However, a friend of mine has the exact same tank, Tropical, and has Musk Turtles. I saw some of these in a local reptile shop recently and was told they can be mixed with fish, but, I didn't ask what sort, cold, tropical and what species in particular, I'm interested in adding these to my aquarium but of course don't want to harm the fish too..
> 
> Now my question(s) are;
> 
> ...


I would probably have to agree with zekee to some extent on that 64l is probably a little on the small side, though this would do you for around 18 months or so until the turtle needed to be moved up to a larger tank.

Hope this helps,
Harry



zekee said:


> You should of posted this in the shelled section. A 64 litre tank is too small for a turtle. The rule of thumb is 40 litres per inch of shell, musks can grow to 5 inches, do the math.
> 
> A basking area, and heat/uv light is needed, they are a temperate species, not tropical, so room temperature water is fine.
> 
> Post your questions in the shelled section.


Don't be so dismissive. They're new to the forum and are only asking a question. Besides your rule is ridiculous. So a group of 4 musk turtles will need an 800l tank? And considering they only need around 20cm of water at most as musks are bottom walkers, you're suggesting they'd need a 4m x 1m tank?


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

I think you will find the 40 litre per inch of shell is a real rule of thumb, which all turtle keepers recommend.

Your 100 l tank is too small.

You wontt want gravel as it poses an impaction hazard if ingested, no lid as high humidity can cause respiratory infections.

I still advise you ignore the above. Its nonsense.

Oh by the way, musks are actually crespuscular. Not nocturnal.

I think you need to do some additional research before you try and give out duff advice.

Have a nice day


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

zekee said:


> I think you will find the 40 litre per inch of shell is a real rule of thumb, which all turtle keepers recommend.
> 
> Your 100 l tank is too small.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice. I will now go and sell my large Lucky Reptile Turtle-tarrium as this is obviously not fit for turtles and search for a tank that is 2m x 1m for my pair of musks.


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Yes, you do that, although you will probably struggle to sell it, as they are next to useless.

Out of interest, are these the musks where one had a bite on the leg?

Musks are highly aggressive, cramped conditions lead to stress and can cause aggression issues.

Do you provide basking areas? Heat and uvb?

And what is your water temperatures? I'm guessing warm as you keep tropical fish?


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

zekee said:


> Yes, you do that, although you will probably struggle to sell it, as they are next to useless.
> 
> Out of interest, are these the musks where one had a bite on the leg?
> 
> ...


Yes these are, the bite was when the turtles were perhaps an inch long at most, making the 100l tank more than ample space. Yes, they have multiple basking areas with heat and UBV.

The water temperature is around 20oc. The corys that they are being kept with are native to La Plata where water temps are rarely above 20oc - not all Corydoras are tropical fish! Yes the flying fox would probably prefer 22oc, but 20oc is fine for them. You'd be surprised at how many 'tropical' fish can be kept so well at temperate temperatures!


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Indeed.

for the record, the rule of thumb is 40 litres per inch of shell for the first then 20 litres per additional turtle, obviously you knew that, from all the research you have conducted?


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

zekee said:


> Indeed.
> 
> for the record, the rule of thumb is 40 litres per inch of shell for the first then 20 litres per additional turtle, obviously you knew that, from all the research you have conducted?


I don't work on litres, I work on the floor space. Volume can be deceptive - especially when talking about bottom walker turtles!


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Maybe you should!

I would also say you 100l is overstocked, would you disagree?


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

What a ridiculous way to work. So I could have an 8x6 foot tub, which is only 4cm high? It doesn't matter about the litres though, I work on floor space.

Being a fish keeper, you would/should know its easier to maintain a larger volume of water.

Musks and turtles in general are mucky critters, good filtration is essential.


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## sdmtate (Jul 11, 2010)

All good advice given by Zekee,nothing more I could add,I would advise you take his recommendations on board

Steve


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

zekee said:


> What a ridiculous way to work. So I could have an 8x6 foot tub, which is only 4cm high? It doesn't matter about the litres though, I work on floor space.
> 
> Being a fish keeper, you would/should know its easier to maintain a larger volume of water.
> 
> Musks and turtles in general are mucky critters, good filtration is essential.


Now you are just being stupid. I'm not discounting a minimum depth, but on your reckoning, you could equally have an 8x6 tub which is only 4 cm high, as it may contain enough litres! And I do - don't misunderstand me, I work in litres, I just don't recommend fish or turtle stocking based on the number of litres. 20cm depth x 20cm width but 200cm in height is not enough space for a musk turtle despite the fact it is 200l! Provided the depth is between certain parameters (say 15 - 25cm) the floor space available (or surface area for dissolved oxygen in the case of fish) is the more important factor.

And I agree hence it is filtered through a Fluval 206 external canister.


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Common sense should prevail.

I can tell you though, 100 litres is too small, end of!


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

zekee said:


> Common sense should prevail.
> 
> I can tell you though, 100 litres is too small, end of!


We'll just have to agree to disagree.


At the end of the day, the 64l tank is too small for an adult musk. End of.


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## MattClare (Oct 31, 2009)

What are the dimensions of the 100l tank?


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Clarebear said:


> What are the dimensions of the 100l tank?


100 cm (l) x 58 cm (w) x 20 cm (h) (large turtle-tarrium)


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

Sorry but 100ltrs is far too small for one musk let alone two. This is my musk tank, containing ONE female musk and a few fish. Musks are fairly solitary and don't seem to enjoy being housed together unless there is ample room. My tank is 3ft x 1ft x 1.5ft and when space allows I will be upgrading to 4ft - regardless of whether they are 'poor swimmers' or not, the fact remains that they are active turtles who enjoy alot of space to move around, conduct natural behaviors such as foraging. As for gravel - bad idea. Musks can easily swallow aquarium gravel and it can prove fatal. Some people opt for a substrate free bottom, but due to my corys I opted for sand.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Frostpaw said:


> Sorry but 100ltrs is far too small for one musk let alone two. This is my musk tank, containing ONE female musk and a few fish. Musks are fairly solitary and don't seem to enjoy being housed together unless there is ample room. My tank is 3ft x 1ft x 1.5ft and when space allows I will be upgrading to 4ft - regardless of whether they are 'poor swimmers' or not, the fact remains that they are active turtles who enjoy alot of space to move around, conduct natural behaviors such as foraging. As for gravel - bad idea. Musks can easily swallow aquarium gravel and it can prove fatal. Some people opt for a substrate free bottom, but due to my corys I opted for sand.
> 
> image


Says he with the 100l tank....

What are your water temps with the musk/cory combo? Its just that I saw on another thread of yours that you suggest Corys shouldn't be kept below 24oc?


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## JoPwerks (Mar 15, 2012)

Agree with most of what's been said, the only thing I will say is the myth of musks not basking, it's been proven time and time again with musk owners who have given a basking area (with correct temps) that they do indeed like a bask.

Also a few owners I know with musks say they do like a swim so they are not always on the bottom 
As much room as possible would of course be right so if you can go bigger it would be better (with lots of resting places, plants, logs etc) for the turtle in the long run


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## Neocortical (Sep 12, 2013)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> I would probably have to agree with zekee to some extent on that 64l is probably a little on the small side, though this would do you for around 18 months or so until the turtle needed to be moved up to a larger tank.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Harry
> ...



You sir, are a legend.

Thanks so much for spending the time to answer my questions, you've helped out so much.

Thanks again!


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Neocortical said:


> You sir, are a legend.
> 
> Thanks so much for spending the time to answer my questions, you've helped out so much.
> 
> Thanks again!


Cheers, always here to help


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