# Does anyone feel sorry for their reptiles?



## hendrix 776 (Aug 6, 2010)

Just a thought - do any of you think your animals would have been better off had they not been born?

Anyone had offspring that they moved on without too much thought to their welfare?

Can anyone TRUTHFULLY justify paying someone to breed a reptile to live its (possibly very long but possibly tortured) life at the mercy of someone who knows little of its needs?

Why is it reprehensible to keep a Bufo bufo in captivity but ok to have any other herpetological individual in a "viv"

Is it not time to stand up, emancipate the captives and ensure their wild habitats are secure for them instead :flrt:

Just a thought?

I might be a "newbie" but like to ruffle feathers :crazy:


----------



## kain (Mar 23, 2009)

hendrix 776 said:


> Why is it reprehensible to keep a Bufo bufo in captivity but ok to have any other herpetological individual in a "viv"


This is probably less to do with living conditions and more to do with the established colonies around the UK which have had severe impacts on the native amphibians



hendrix 776 said:


> Is it not time to stand up, emancipate the captives and ensure their wild habitats are secure for them instead :flrt:


No and Yes: No to emancipating the captives as a huge proportion of them will die, not all as burms in florida and aescolupian snakes in wales have proven. And yes to secure there wild habitats


----------



## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

hendrix 776 said:


> Just a thought - do any of you think your animals would have been better off had they not been born?
> 
> Anyone had offspring that they moved on without too much thought to their welfare?
> 
> ...


Just a guess but I have heard all of this before, do you by any chance work for the APA?

Do you have ANY pets at all?


----------



## mandi1234 (Mar 13, 2009)

hendrix 776 said:


> Just a thought - do any of you think your animals would have been better off had they not been born?
> 
> Anyone had offspring that they moved on without too much thought to their welfare?
> 
> ...


no
no
no
dunno
no


----------



## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

What a load of total nonsense.

Thanks and goodbye!


----------



## beardys (Sep 28, 2009)

:cussing::blahblah::blowup::whistling2:


----------



## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

does anyone feel sorry for their mice? Guinea pigs? Far more active creatures, with more need for stimulation, yet kept in cages. It's worse with birds in my opinion. Compared to these mammals, the needs of the majority of reptiles, amphibians and especially invertebrates, is easier to provide for. Yes some folks don't keep them well, but then some folks don't keep their mice well(never clean them out) or mistreat their dogs. The care requirements for any species you can get these days is available, there are more books on reptile care, then dogs and cats and the like, so I don't agree. Though I do agree their wild habitat should be protected.

Then we have rabbits, house cats etc, horses(their hardly have open plains and suffer the fact they must let creatures ride around on them).

anyway, three letters have formed in my mind, A.P.A....I wonder why...


----------



## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

Just had an email from a small snake in Brazil who would like to comment on your thread.

"What's so good about my natural environment? Do you have some kind of whimsical, bleary idea notion that I live in some kind of paradise? Every morning I wake up inside my cave and do you know what I do once I wake up? Nothing! I stay here all day, and do you want to know why? Because I am terrified! Outside that entrance hole is one of the most unforgiving and dangerous environments known to beast.

It will try to kill you to you, why? Maybe it doesn't like the look of you or reckons you might be a good host to internally nuture it's offspring. Maybe you look like you are trying to eat it, or maybe it thinks you are too close to it's little patch. I tell you it's a jungle out there! Diseases are rife and the weather is lousy, yesterday it was 98F in the shade and 90% humidity. I can't survive in that so I stay in the security of my little hole, sure, it's a bit cramped, but what you know what they say? In the most desperate of hell hole situations, sometimes all you can do is curl up in a ball and make your self at home...

I sometimes think of those cousins of mine who live abroad in safe little houses, they have no preditors, no threats other than the big, white bald ape who sometimes like to fondle them, which i reckon is a bit wierd, but I reckon that's a small price to pay for safety, securiuty and a good long life...So I would swap places with them in a second...

I know I belong here, I am needed here... you humans have something called a 'natural balance' and I understand my lot in life and why I am here in the crap hole, but I have to admit, when I think of my cousins over with there guarateed food and their comfortable homes, I can't help but feel jealous..

Anyway

adieu!

Paulo"


----------



## Dragon Wolf (Oct 27, 2009)

*hendrix 776*

Do you ever think............

You have no idea what you're talking about?

You could be on the wrong forum?

Your views may be better appreciated elsewhere?

You fancy yourself as a Troll, but still have a lot of work to do before reaching the Trolling standards we have in place on here?


----------



## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

Dragon Wolf said:


> *hendrix 776*
> 
> Do you ever think............
> 
> ...


Our Trolls are special Trolls... I reckon we have some of the best!:no1:


----------



## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Can I just say ..........
GET BACK TO FACEBOOK!!!

If a reptile or anphibian is unhappy or tortured as you put it, then it wouldn't breed, FACT!

So your argument is pretty flawed but thanks for popping in :2thumb:


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

hendrix 776 said:


> Just a thought - do any of you think your animals would have been better off had they not been born?


Well, obviously that _individual _wouldn't be better off, because it's not off at all, and not-at-all is not necessarily preferable to the alternatives.



> Anyone had offspring that they moved on without too much thought to their welfare?


No - which is why I prefer to ensure mine will go somewhere that the future owner can be quizzed at length and educated in the proper means of keeping.



> Can anyone TRUTHFULLY justify paying someone to breed a reptile to live its (possibly very long but possibly tortured) life at the mercy of someone who knows little of its needs?


Why would I buy a reptile just to keep it in poor conditions? That's a poor investment of money, if nothing else - like buying a toaster just to pee in it. Why would someone do that? I do not buy anything I do not already know how to care for and have a suitable enclosure for.



> Why is it reprehensible to keep a Bufo bufo in captivity but ok to have any other herpetological individual in a "viv"


IS it "reprehensible" to keep a common European Toad in captivity? Who decided that one? If you can keep it correctly and healthily - and do not endanger local populations with your animal - then I don't see why you can't keep one.



> Is it not time to stand up, emancipate the captives and ensure their wild habitats are secure for them instead :flrt:


Emancipate the captive bred captive born pet animals, no. 
Ensure wild habitats are safe for genuine WILD animals? YES.


----------



## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

Why would I buy a reptile just to keep it in poor conditions? That's a poor investment of money, if nothing else - *like buying a toaster just to pee in it.* Why would someone do that? I do not buy anything I do not already know how to care for and have a suitable enclosure for.


I lolled
Are we talking from personal experience there, bro? :lol2:


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I think some of you may have got completely the wrong impression of the OP, if you bother to check his other posts you'll see he's far from being a troll or whatever else you think he may be.

I've already had a very sensible conversation with him in the Shelled section, where he came looking for advice on keeping a pair of turtles that he commendably took on when their owner no longer wanted them, and is now doing his best to provide them with the kind of environment that they need.

OK so he's asked a slightly odd question, but then I'm sure more than a few of us have at one time or another questioned the rights and wrongs of what we do, I know I have. I don't think you'd be a very responsible reptile keeper if you didn't ask yourself at some point if what you're doing is right?


----------



## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Graham said:


> I think some of you may have got completely the wrong impression of the OP, if you bother to check his other posts you'll see he's far from being a troll or whatever else you think he may be.
> 
> I've already had a very sensible conversation with him in the Shelled section, where he came looking for advice on keeping a pair of turtles that he commendably took on when their owner no longer wanted them, and is now doing his best to provide them with the kind of environment that they need.
> 
> OK so he's asked a slightly odd question, but then I'm sure more than a few of us have at one time or another questioned the rights and wrongs of what we do, I know I have. I don't think you'd be a very responsible reptile keeper if you didn't ask yourself at some point if what you're doing is right?


 So this person came onto the a forum section and said he had to take some turtles from a irresponsible keeper who didn't want to look after them and no as he has no idea how to look after them needs some help.

Then asks a question about if it's cruel to keep reptiles, do you not think there is anything slightly weired about that? : victory:


----------



## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

I've read them too. But lest be honest here, the best way to introduce yourself to a forum is by saying hello... Not by coming on and saying "Is what you are doing morally right?"

It doesn't create a very good impression, and I am more than willing to forgive and forget, but he needs to explain himself if he wants to be treated with respect.


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> Then asks a question about if it's cruel to keep reptiles, do you not think there is anything slightly weired about that?


Weird? Yes possibly, but this place is full of weird people asking weird questions all day long! I don't think there's anything suspicious about it though as some of you seem to.



> It doesn't create a very good impression


Perhaps not, but then it's not the first time someone has joined the forum and got off on the wrong foot, as a complete newbie to the forum he may not have realise the sort of knee-jerk reaction he'd get, old hands like us are used to it!

He does of course say at the bottom of his post...



> I might be a "newbie" but like to ruffle feathers


Well he's obviously managed that with a few of you.


----------



## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Graham said:


> Weird? Yes possibly, but this place is full of weird people asking weird questions all day long! I don't think there's anything suspicious about it though as some of you seem to.
> 
> *AGREED*
> 
> ...


 No offence intended Graham, I usually like to give people the benefit of the doubt but it's a sensitive time at the minute : victory:


----------



## daisyman97 (Jul 12, 2010)

David L said:


> Just had an email from a small snake in Brazil who would like to comment on your thread.
> 
> "What's so good about my natural environment? Do you have some kind of whimsical, bleary idea notion that I live in some kind of paradise? Every morning I wake up inside my cave and do you know what I do once I wake up? Nothing! I stay here all day, and do you want to know why? Because I am terrified! Outside that entrance hole is one of the most unforgiving and dangerous environments known to beast.
> 
> ...


I LOVE it! Made me pmsl. I can't believe no one else has congratulated you for it so I am :no1:


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> it's a sensitive time at the minute


Yes it is, and as a newbie to the forum he may not have been aware of that (probably is now though!), I admit it's unfortunate timing to be asking questions like this.

At any other time I think it's a reasonable enough question though, as I said it's a question I've asked myself in the past and continue to do so regularly, I need to satisfy myself that what I'm doing is OK.


----------



## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

Yeah..feel terrible for my Leos...never have to worry that someone might munch em, hardly any risk of disease, if they get ill, they go to the vets, rather than suffering/being someones Lunch, fed on a regular basis on food that isnt going to make em ill.

shite life really isnt it


----------



## hendrix 776 (Aug 6, 2010)

Jeez - when I ruffle feathers I certainly do!

Firstly I'd like to make it clear that my comment was in no way directed at folk on here who clearly have their animals' best interests at heart - why else would they bother joining a forum?

I also apologise for not introducing myself more formally - I post on other forums and I'm ashamed to say I tend to avoid looking at the "hello I'm new posts"

As Graham said I received a lot of help from him last weekend when I found myself landed with 2 terrapins in dire need of attention. We needed advice quickly and timely and that is exactly what we got. More importantly it was informed, quality advice - unlike some of the (complete bull it turns out) misinformation we were fed by several pet shops and aquatic centres we visited in our quest to sort the problem out.

Until this post - I'd never heard of the APA and was wondering what you all were accusing me of!

Admittedly, looking back - it was a late night post written after a couple of shandies and I didn't make myself clear.

What I was trying to moan about - in a ham-fisted way were people who are the complete opposite of most of you here.

We have a Motley crew in our house of 3 rescue dogs, 3 rescue guinea pigs, a hamster that was found in a skip dumped with 7 litter mates, a pond full of fish that were going to be buried as the new owner filled the pond in, an aquarium of assorted freshwater tropicals and now......................... 2 terrapins that were living in an inch of fetid water without light of any kind.

My problem is with the unscrupulous pet trade - the breeders who sell any animal on regardless if the new owner has the capacity - financial, environmental, cerebral or otherwise to care for them as long as they fork out for the initial set up and animal.

I've seen posts on here and other forums about animals being sold under the radar on ebay in tanks too small - you know the score more than I do 

My problem is with the pet shops who give wrong advice either through ignorance or worse - in an underhand way just to make a profit. I was advised to buy all sorts of stuff for the terrapins last weekend including fine gravel and a water heater - and was told to keep the humidity high - until I was corrected by Graham.

A friend of mine was told by a guy in an aquatic centre that the cute baby oscar he was admiring would be an ideal addition to his community tank.:gasp:

I'm sure everyone on here has similar stories.

I do have a problem with taking animals from the wild and the whole importation industry though. It's not just the individual animal but often the whole environment that suffers - Phillipino reef explosions anyone? 

I apologise if I offended or appeared to criticise anyone - that was never my attention
(Note to self - stop late night posting after beer O'clock!)

It's a good job I've got broad shoulders and thick skin and have experience of other forums though - otherwise I'd be crying over my keyboard scared to switch on! :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Oh - and my name is James - and I keep reptiles (since last week)......Hi! :whistling2:

Thanks to Graham for his help and support - top man


----------



## daisyman97 (Jul 12, 2010)

hendrix 776 said:


> We have a Motley crew in our house of 3 rescue dogs, 3 rescue guinea pigs, a hamster that was found in a skip dumped with 7 litter mates, a pond full of fish that were going to be buried as the new owner filled the pond in, an aquarium of assorted freshwater tropicals and now......................... 2 terrapins that were living in an inch of fetid water without light of any kind.


Max respect for that : victory: And I did see your original posts in the shelled section, but Graham had already covered your back on here so didn't add my word. You were just very unlucky with when you started this post :lol2:


----------



## laurencea (Aug 28, 2009)

David L said:


> Just had an email from a small snake in Brazil who would like to comment on your thread.
> 
> "What's so good about my natural environment? Do you have some kind of whimsical, bleary idea notion that I live in some kind of paradise? Every morning I wake up inside my cave and do you know what I do once I wake up? Nothing! I stay here all day, and do you want to know why? Because I am terrified! Outside that entrance hole is one of the most unforgiving and dangerous environments known to beast.
> 
> ...


there... that's better


----------



## hendrix 776 (Aug 6, 2010)

daisyman97 said:


> Max respect for that : victory: And I did see your original posts in the shelled section, but Graham had already covered your back on here so didn't add my word. You were just very unlucky with when you started this post :lol2:


Thank you :whistling2:


----------

