# Are surinam horned frogs easy to keep? possibly buying stunning female



## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Hello everyone

Im asking for your advice really. Ive been given the opportunity to buy a female Ceratophrys Cornuta bright green, shes absolutely stunning!! beautiful froggie. Only thing is that I only really have experience with whites tree frogs in terms of amphibians. I know a ten gallon is all shed need her whole life, feed every 3-4 days with crickets or mice or earthworms and keep at about 80F.

How hardy are they? as a friend of mine has had 3 of these in the past and hasnt had any luck with them as theyve died suddenly and without warning and I dont question her care as she does everything by the books and has years of experince with dartfrogs. 

any advice and input will be greatly appreciated
Kelly


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

I forgot to mention that for months I intended on getting a normal horned frog (cranwelli or ornata) and own 3 horned frog books.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Is it a fresh import? Is it feeding on rodents etc yet?


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

its captivebred from a german breeder. It came over from Hamm today.

Dont know if its eating yet beause its only just come over. 


the more intellegent thing would be to wait until shes eating at the shop before I get her.


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## RepsAndPhibs (Sep 10, 2009)

You've basically said all there is to looking after them just keep them in a 10 gallon with substrate that they can dig in and they don't really like lots of light so have plenty of hides and a large but shallow water bowl, keep them at 80F and that should be it, and obviously feed them.
I wouldn't see any problem in keeping one go for it and good luck.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

They seem pretty simple to keep bless them. This frog is truly amazing, flawless!! other thing in concerned about it that sometimes I watch movies and play music in my bedroom (which is where I keep all my reps too). Would this noise stress the froggie out. Im a little nervous about getting this type of frog after my friend has had such bad luck.


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## RepsAndPhibs (Sep 10, 2009)

i keep all my animals in my room to where i also play music and watch films and have tv on a lot but as long you don't go too loud and stay at a decent volume they will be ok mine are fine and i have had them for a year.
And don't be that worried about looking after them you wont find out you can do it unless you do it.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Thankyou repsandphibs

As long as I go by the books I should be ok. If I get her itll probably be within the week so ill post up piccys. All the photos ive seen on the net are of brownish red ones but this girls bright green nd the black striping on her back is almost tribal.

What phibs do you keep?


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## RepsAndPhibs (Sep 10, 2009)

Ok best of luck with the new frog and will keep an eye out for your pics.
And at the moment i have albino horned frogs, fire bellied toads, whites tree frogs, paddle tail newts, hong kong warty newts, axolotls and red eye tree frogs


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

YAY i got friend request from you. 

Cool whoop whoop for whites tree frogs. I love my 4 to death!! Daffy,Ducky,Willow and Coco are my 4 and god i love red eyes too.

Im gunna get the shop to hold her and pick her up next week, that gives me time to set up a tank and gather as much knowledge as i can on her. Ive got 3 horned frog books to read through. Also the same shop is selling a baby captivebred Bibrons gecko too which is soooo tempting but horned frog comes first.


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## RepsAndPhibs (Sep 10, 2009)

Lol and its the first friend request i sent out lol so feel privileged 
And i can never beat temptation i fail really bad at that lol if i see something i like before i know it i am at the till or on the phone.


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

hey kelly

i would say all horned frogs need someone that knows what they r doing









so you wont have a problem
but if i have read the thread properly you r importing from germany which is rather risky for any amphibian


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

> Lol and its the first friend request i sent out lol so feel privileged
> And i can never beat temptation i fail really bad at that lol if i see something i like before i know it i am at the till or on the phone.


Im the same. I have a wishlist thats forever growing but theres a slowly decresing limit of space, time and money and I dont get animals then sell them on a few months later becuase "im bored" "want a new project" or simply want space for something else to fill its tank. My reps are with me for life so whatever I take on its a life long commitment to that animal (how ever long it lives: victory. But shops are bad you could just goround with a shopping basket and be like "i want that one, that one, that one!"

Thanks Connor
Yes i think I know what im doing. Ive only ever had whites before (fantastic frogs might i add gotta love them). And i didnt import it specifically. A shop was unpacking all they bought back from Hamm and I asked to see what they bought back. Stupid me fell in love with these frogs. Theyre selling 2 pairs of them. One pair was already spoken for and I dont have enought money to buy the remaining pair so im buying just the female. Annnndddd as an extra precausion Im going to pay a deposit and ask the shop if they could keep her a week and get her feeding so that at least when i take her i know shes fed and got energy to travel some more. Im not too far away so the journey wont be that long. God I just hope I dont lose her like my friend lost her previous 3. One of which had bad back legs and she didnt realize until she got him home. The other 2 were babies fresh from hamm a couple of years ago but they werent allowed to settle before being bought from the shop so maybe they went through too much stress from travelling I dont know. But this one is captivebred from a german breeder and theyre nearly adults so I think im safe plus im not going to take them unless they feed.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

White_raven666 said:


> Im the same. I have a wishlist thats forever growing but theres a slowly decresing limit of space, time and money and I dont get animals then sell them on a few months later becuase "im bored" "want a new project" or simply want space for something else to fill its tank. My reps are with me for life so whatever I take on its a life long commitment to that animal (how ever long it lives: victory. But shops are bad you could just goround with a shopping basket and be like "i want that one, that one, that one!"
> 
> Thanks Connor
> Yes i think I know what im doing. Ive only ever had whites before (fantastic frogs might i add gotta love them). And i didnt import it specifically. A shop was unpacking all they bought back from Hamm and I asked to see what they bought back. Stupid me fell in love with these frogs. Theyre selling 2 pairs of them. One pair was already spoken for and I dont have enought money to buy the remaining pair so im buying just the female. Annnndddd as an extra precausion Im going to pay a deposit and ask the shop if they could keep her a week and get her feeding so that at least when i take her i know shes fed and got energy to travel some more. Im not too far away so the journey wont be that long. God I just hope I dont lose her like my friend lost her previous 3. One of which had bad back legs and she didnt realize until she got him home. The other 2 were babies fresh from hamm a couple of years ago but they werent allowed to settle before being bought from the shop so maybe they went through too much stress from travelling I dont know. But this one is captivebred from a german breeder and theyre nearly adults so I think im safe plus im not going to take them unless they feed.


Good to know they're CB (as far as we know), WC cornuta especially can be awkward initially due to their preference for a frog based diet... and live ones at that.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Its all official now. I rang up the shop and im picking her up Saturday:2thumb::2thumb:

Itll gimme a chance to set something up.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

you say they have one left?can i ask which shop it is as id like to purchase another. i have 2 that are doing well so far. i would keep them warmer than 80 though.these seem to like it warmer than ornata and cranwelli and do best at about 85F,with the chance of a cooler area obviously.


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## boipevassu (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi Kelly

Stomach analysis of these frogs in the wild has shown they eat large prey items much more significantly than crickets or earthworms. Vertebrates make up a little more than half of their prey. 3 major food sources were Lizards, Frogs and Mice. Next came grasshoppers at about a fifth of the natural intake. And then crabs (about 10%).

Having kept these (I currently have 4 well established adults from different sources) I would say that getting them onto larger food items is eventually essential for growth but can be *very difficult*. I still have to tease one of mine to be sure it takes a rat pup reasonably regularly. Some experiences mentioned on here are not an uncommon pattern. The frogs seem to feed quite well on smaller items but suddenly die. In the wild these frogs will eat more or less any prey - starting (believe it or not) with lots of ants if larger items are not available. To maximise their energy use/retention however the frogs need to eat a large meal from time to time.

In short I'd be sure to try to start with frogs you know are feeding, and I would vary the diet but include larger items regularly - which can be a struggle to achieve. 

They also *need* 85F as mentioned, and seem to benefit, in terms of keeping their appetite and certainly for mating from dry spells during which they have to be carefully monitored.

Hope this helps and good luck!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

why are people buying things without propper planning, unless i have read it wrong there is more than 1 post along the lines of

"And i can never beat temptation i fail really bad at that lol if i see something i like before i know it i am at the till or on the phone"

To be fair the animals need to be going to homes were they are properly researched and set up before poeple even consider buying them. i have been keeping amphibians for about 8 years and even now i still research a new species before keeping it. I have a vast knowledge of most anuras but the difference between knowing about them and caring for them in captivity is 2 different subjects all together.

Shipping a species from germany is not nothing bad at all. alot of uk stockists do it and to be fair as long as it is done correctly its no that much of an issue.


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## boipevassu (Aug 6, 2007)

Here is another thread on these from earlier.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/42187-pac-man-frog.html


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## boipevassu (Aug 6, 2007)

And another - hopefully these will give you more clues as to husbandry and level of difficulty.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/361731-desperately-seeking-answers.html


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## RepsAndPhibs (Sep 10, 2009)

knighty said:


> why are people buying things without propper planning, unless i have read it wrong there is more than 1 post along the lines of
> 
> "And i can never beat temptation i fail really bad at that lol if i see something i like before i know it i am at the till or on the phone"
> 
> ...


Actually when animals come to me they have a very good home to go too i have plenty of tanks over 30 spare and its always growing and i have everything i would need to care for literally most animals so just because temptation gets the better of me don't assume i just grab em n dump them in a tank. Give people a bit more credit we are not that stupid we put the animals on hold and it takes 1 night of research to find out the right requirements for that animal and only takes me another night to set the thing up.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

This whole tread has got me thinking now. I dont want to kill the special lady:bash: Ive even thought of a name for her. Amira meaning Princess 


So on the check list so far is 

largest exoterra flat faunarium
small heat mat (after reading the links above it states that they burrow to get away from the heat so stick the heat mat onto the side
have a pulse stat to control temps
water bowl
bottled water (which i have anyway as ive got WTFrogs)
cave or not?
sphagnum moss or not? or should i use cocofibre? ill feed her via tongs or put a cardboard slab under her chin
I feel a little discouraged about getting her but in the end shes whats most important. If I provide the above perfectly. what are my chances of keepig her alive? I mean shes about the size of a waxworm pot atm

thankyou people
Kelly


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## boipevassu (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi Kelly

I think the points being made here are that however well prepared you are with these frogs in terms of equipment and reading etc they can still be difficult. I think part of Knighty's point was that some experience in Horned Frog keeping with one of the other less delicate species might be useful. It is useful to be able to 'read' the animal you are keeping.

These frogs can be difficult even in the care of experienced keepers. I don't necessarily think you'd be 'killing' it if it died. It might just be a frog that was stressed or was not 'fit' enough to survive anyway. They have a high mortality rate in the wild.

Part of being prepared here is that you are confident that you could 'troubleshoot' any problems. To avoid these issues you'd need to be convinced that the frog was starting out as a good feeder.

Finally, I would not use moss. When I have received these frogs before I have initially kept them in warm (85F) shallow water to check what they are pooing, and they commonly pass quite large quantities of moss completely undigested if they have been kept on it. In the wild they live in leaf litter much of the time, and flooded areas seasonally. 

I would give the frog leaves to bury in (my approach most of the year) which you can get from herp suppliers, and which must be replaced from time to time, and provide some cover (cork bark arches etc) above the leaves. All of this can go on top of the substrate you are lining the tank with. Although much of the time you don't see the frog, it does allow the animal to settle and live more naturally and probably reduces stress as a result.

Hope this helps and again good luck.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok guys after lots of thought and consideration ive decided im not going to have her.
I rang up the shop and asked them how she was doing and they said the frog is doing fine but someone is having the other pair wants this pair too and especially the female I had on hold till this saturday and he said this other guy has a colony of them and wants 4 more for his collection. So with the best intentions for the frog I said let the other guy have her. 

I reallly wanted Amira (the frog) but 

I dont have experience with a cranwelli or ornata let alone a suriname
Im not really confident enough after my friend losing hers, hearing about that guys dad who lost his and what others have said about their delicacy. If someone else has had experience with them before shes better of with someone who has kept them and know what theyre doing than a person whos never had ceratophrys before.
She would have cleaned out my account LOL
A bit downhearted but at least shell be looked after properly:-|


Thankyou to everyone whos helped me with info and advice. You lot have been really helpful. 
Kelly


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

i think you may of made the right decision. least it may go towards increasing the cb pool in the uk now. why dont you ask for your details to be passed onto the other guy so if he ever does breed them you can have one of those? in the mean time get a fantasy frog(this is a suriname x cranwelli) and learn with this as they are hardier and will give you some experience..


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Thats how im trying to look at it. Being such a rarely captivebred amphibian the breeders need all the healthy genes they can get.

There is a shop that has a fantasy horned frog in atm. Its a grown on one buttttt its in (my opinion) the second worst reptile shop in Essex. :bash:hazard a guess anyone? and their tanks are FILTHY although i would be rescuing the froggie.


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## boipevassu (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi Kelly

This may all work out for the best. There are some tricolour fantasies in the amphibian classifieds also. I would go for something that is guaranteed feeding and that has been established (not something too small). A juvenile with a good track record would be perfect. You could find something at the show in Essex on the 27th.

Best of luck and keep posting the news on this!


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