# what uni does arachnology ?



## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

hi was just talking to my mum and we were wondering wether there was a uni where i could study arachnology once im older could any one help?


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## herpzane (Apr 1, 2008)

I dont know mate but id also like to know. How cool would that be to study!


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

i really doubt their is an arachnology degree out there.

Your best bet would be doing something like zoology and in your 3rd yr doing something on T's for your dissertation.

Then you could do a masters degree in entomology(study of insects), the only place which offers that is Imperial college London. I'd assume even though it's entomology you might have the chance to do something about tarantulas in it..


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

kk thanks joe


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

Ok,.. I'm afraid that there is no quick answer here. If you want to study arachnids then there is almost certainly no UK university course that you can do at undergraduate level. 

However, if you're serious about studying arachnids, what I would recommend is that you study for an undergraduate biology/zoology degree. You will need to look at course content carefully before you apply. Try and pick a university with a course that contains both animal physiology (this will usually include arthropods) and biochemistry. 

Work hard! :whip: You will need at least a 2.1 and preferably a 1st for the next step.

Just before you graduate, look carefully at which research groups around the world are working on arachnids. There is a good chance of finding one where tarantulas and other arachnids are native animals, such as South America, the US, Asia. Contact someone in the group and see if you can get funding for a PhD or Masters project to work with them. There will be competition... so as someone suggested earlier, getting a GOOD Masters in entomology from Imperial would be a really good idea .

When you succeed and get a project, congratulations (!): you will now be doing _bona fide_ research on arachnids, an area that really needs more work. The cool thing is that because there is actually relatively little known about even basic physiology/ecology of many arachnids (they are not popular subjects), there is an excellent chance that your contribution will make a huge difference in how much we know about these animals! You don't get this kind of impact in many other fields.

Once you get to this stage you will know what the next steps are 


So there you are, it's not as easy as signing up for an arachnology course but it will work, if you want it and try hard enough. I am now at the end of this process finishing my PhD doing research on, not arachnids but birds, which is what I wanted to work on .


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

thanks very much for that its very useful advice, and i saved it : victory::notworthy:​


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

No problem  Good luck and don't give up : victory:


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

i have still got a phew more years until uni, im in year 10 at the moment but have been keeping spiders since i was 7 and thats what ive wanted to do


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

Chaika that advice really is motivating and as I'm 15 myself, I've been speaking with CareersWales etc.

What sort of degrees am I looking needing for a zoology / entomology course?

A Level Biology & Chemistry I presume? (Physiology as mentioned?) I really love the idea of zoology, research on inverts etc. :mf_dribble:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Josh-sama said:


> Chaika that advice really is motivating and as I'm 15 myself, I've been speaking with CareersWales etc.
> 
> What sort of degrees am I looking needing for a zoology / entomology course?
> 
> A Level Biology & Chemistry I presume? (Physiology as mentioned?) I really love the idea of zoology, research on inverts etc. :mf_dribble:


well the zoology course is the degree...unless you meant A-levels there.

You don't necessarily need two science based A-levels, though it depends where you go obviously. You would need biology really which is pretty obvious.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

joeyboy said:


> well the zoology course is the degree...unless you meant A-levels there.
> 
> You don't necessarily need two science based A-levels, though it depends where you go obviously. You would need biology really which is pretty obvious.


Yeah, Biology is insanely obvious. :lol2:

Hm... I have a tough choice... Exotics or Graphic Design?


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

joeyboy said:


> well the zoology course is the degree...unless you meant A-levels there.
> 
> You don't necessarily need two science based A-levels, though it depends where you go obviously. You would need biology really which is pretty obvious.



If you want to do biology/zoology at a good university you will have a strong advantage over other people applying for the same course if you have two sciences and a maths. Aim to get as high grades as you possibly can as this will widen your choices when it comes to applying to unversity, and go for the best university you can get into (this will widen your choices when it comes to looking for a Masters). 

I did Biology, Chemistry and Maths for my A-levels and this combination got me offers at all the best universities that I applied to including Cambridge and York which were both up in the top five when I was applying in 2001.


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

if i get the right grades for a level im going to do :
Biology ofcourse
English
Art - mainly becuase i would like to do decent photos of spiders and stuff


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

george dobson said:


> if i get the right grades for a level im going to do :
> Biology ofcourse
> English
> Art - mainly becuase i would like to do decent photos of spiders and stuff


Art has nothing to do with photography really, see if there's a photography A-level, I've seen something like it.

But really A-level art probably won't help, I know the course at our college hasn't really got anything to do with taking photos on a professional level.


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

joeyboy said:


> Art has nothing to do with photography really, see if there's a photography A-level, I've seen something like it.
> 
> But really A-level art probably won't help, I know the course at our college hasn't really got anything to do with taking photos on a professional level.


 
oh ok ill try and do something else then, i mainly want to do art because i enjoy it


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

george dobson said:


> oh ok ill try and do something else then, i mainly want to do art because i enjoy it


well if you think you'll get a good grade go for it. After all there's loads of routes to Uni. If you find they want two sciences just do a foundation degree or something.

I have to figure out what career I want...


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Be forewarned, as R.Breene has been quoted saying, numerous times:

"No jobs for arachnologists, ever. Never were, never will be."

I'm actually looking at Imperial myself for Entomology, I have Chemistry, Physics and Biology A Levels behind me, plus a year of Forensic Chemistry and Pathology at university, so... 

There are a good few in America and Australia that do arachnology as a post-graduate degree, but you'd need to complete an appropriate undergraduate study first.

Also, arachnology is surprisingly little about tarantulas. Don't go into it assuming you'll work with theraphosids, you really won't; this is the equivalent of going into a veterinary course, expecting to work with crocodiles. It might happen, but it's incredibly unlikely. You'll be studying things like mites, scorpions, toxicology and more 'common' spider forms first. You may touch on tarantulas, but it certainly isn't a direct module in most courses I've seen.


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

Cambridge has one of the best zoology degree courses available and you can study entomology. However you'll need top grades, a huge pile of money and a strong back ground in the choosen subject. If you can get something published in a journal you'll be onto a winner! or show any evidence of furthering the hobby etc... not just keeping a couple of spiders.



this link may be of help to you.
http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/


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## big stu (Oct 19, 2007)

Nottingham uni would be a good place to go, theres no direct course of arachnology but they do have a spider lab which could be usefull.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Well, my experience was this:

I finished high school with 6 highers and 2 advanced highers. These included highers in the 3 sciences, Maths, English and Geography, and then 6th year courses in Biology and Chemistry. 

I then started a Bsc course at the University of St Andrews after a year out where I worked in a commercial lab. I took a mix of chemistry and red/green* biology until second year before aiming for an Ecology and Conservation degree. As such, I ended up studying a myriad of topics from animal behaviour, genetics, ecology, physiology and marine biology. 

I then started my final year dissertation where I conducted a 3 month field study of Harvestmen under different thinning regimes in a managed forest. I self proposed this project, and it took far longer than 3 months to actually complete!

I managed to graduate with a Bsc (Hons.) in Ecology and Conservation, and won the award for best field dissertation project. I was "as close to getting as first without getting a first as I could have been" - hence, a very high 2:1. 

I'm now applying for funding at the same institution for a PhD. I have 2 very good lecturers who are going to co-supervise, with a Prof as principal investigator (this is to do with funding etc). 

My advice would be to stick in at school and get stuck into the sciences. Zoology tends to retain a decent level of cell biology which I found boring, so Ecology is probably better suited to those of you less interested in golgi apparatus and such, or abbreviations (rough ER anyone?). If you then go into a uni with a good School of Biology (don't be fooled into thinking that "Oxbridge" is the only way to go - you'll end up studying "Natural Sciences" which IMO is a waste of time in this era of super specialisation). 

You don't actually need to go down the Msc Entomology route if you get a decent 2:1 from a good university. A masters course is expensive and you won't reliably get funding to complete one. Expect to pay fees of around £3500 upwards for a masters. Factor this in, because you'll have your living costs as well (for example, halls in St Andrews are around £3500 - £4000+/year) 

Entomology is also quite different to Arachnology - arachnids and insects are similar at a glance, but there are big differences between them. What's the point of studying Lepidoptera for a year then spiders, when you could just study spiders? 

I'm (hopefully) going straight to a funded PhD. This pays you a salary (it's full time) and pays for the tutition fees. It's based over 3.5 years of funding typically, and you have to submit a thesis before the end of 4 years. There are many methods of funding it, and I wouldn't really worry about this just yet. Just be prepared to do a lot of reading if you self propose (this is basically designing it yourself) and be prepared to wait for funding to come through. You can get projects with funding already secured, but these will probably only come from researchers like Dr S Goodacre (and will probably be dispersal of Linyphiids!  ).

One last thing, keep your options open. It's hard to get established - once you get established in the field, then you can hopefully specialise into tarantulas with greater ease. Trying to do a PhD solely on them for example will probably be met with failure to secure funding. A multi taxa study, using tarantulas as part of a guild of predatory organisms, will probably secure more chance of funding. 



*Red biology is cell and molecular biology, green are the environmental sciences.


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

I just want to point out that the Cambridge Natural Sciences Tripos course is top class. I speak as someone who has gone through it myself and have had the opportunity to compare with courses from other universities. You get a great opportunity to try different subjects within the sciences and an opportunity to really specialise in a chosen field in you second and third year. This is an invaluable opportunity at 18, if you want to go into research, to figure out what kind of field you will be interested in. Hence, I strongly disagree with the comment below:



GRB said:


> don't be fooled into thinking that "Oxbridge" is the only way to go - you'll end up studying "Natural Sciences" which IMO is a waste of time in this era of super specialisation.


18 is not a time to specialise but rather a time to discover what you want to specialise in. A Natural Sciences degree from Cambridge or Oxford is very respected around the world and opens many doors. You will also get to meet some of the leading researchers in their field and it is certainly not a waste on time. 

I also respectfully disagree with the following in *bold* although the rest of the requirements are spot on:



matto2k said:


> you'll need top grades, *a huge pile of money* and a strong back ground in the choosen subject.


This is a big misconception about Oxbridge. In fact, since both of these universities have several times more money than any other university in the UK, they can offer a lot more in terms of bursaries and monetary support for poorer students (something that I and my friends did make use of while we were there). My parents definitely did not have a 'huge pile of money' when I started, in fact, they had no savings whatsoever... Accomodation and food in Cambridge (I assume it is similar in Oxford) is provided by the colleges at hugely subsidised rates and living there is therefore ridiculously cheap and the accomodation standard generally higher than that available on the market at most other universities.

The fact that you don't need to have gone to Oxbridge to get into research is very true (although, I can tell you that it really doesn't hurt your chances). The important thing is to try and get a biology degree from a university with a good reputation for the subject; examples that spring to mind are, York, St Andrews and Edinburgh universities, among others.



GRB said:


> You don't actually need to go down the Msc Entomology route if you get a decent 2:1 from a good university.


Very true. I went straight into a PhD without doing a Masters with a good 2.1 from Cambridge. However, more and more research groups want students to do a Masters degree, something that I came up against myself. What is frustrating is the lack of funding available for anyone that takes this route, especially in pure research subjects! Not everyone has a spare £4,000-£10,000 (the range that I found) lying around after they finish to spend on another degree, expecially when they are probably already in debt.



GRB said:


> One last thing, keep your options open. It's hard to get established - once you get established in the field, then you can hopefully specialise into tarantulas with greater ease. Trying to do a PhD solely on them for example will probably be met with failure to secure funding. A multi taxa study, using tarantulas as part of a guild of predatory organisms, will probably secure more chance of funding.


Finally, this is really great advice ! Patience and the ability to keep an open mind are really important skills for getting to study a particular subject.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

For moving into university courses, do these all break down under Zoology?

Zoology
- Ecology
- Entomology etc?

Quite confusing haha!


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

Josh-sama said:


> For moving into university courses, do these all break down under Zoology?
> 
> Zoology
> - Ecology
> ...


Zoology is the study of animals so therefore would include entomology (the study of insects) and ecology (the study of the relationships between organisms and their environments).

When I was specialising in Zoology in my final year at Cambridge, there was a large number of modules available, all the way from insect biology to development and evolution to ecology and conservation (and these are just a couple of examples )


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

Chaika said:


> Zoology is the study of animals so therefore would include entomology (the study of insects) and ecology (the study of the relationships between organisms and their environments).
> 
> When I was specialising in Zoology in my final year at Cambridge, there was a large number of modules available, all the way from insect biology to development and evolution to ecology and conservation (and these are just a couple of examples )


OH!

So you get to pick the modules to specialise in your 2nd & 3rd year?


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Josh-sama said:


> OH!
> 
> So you get to pick the modules to specialise in your 2nd & 3rd year?


well all degrees have optional modules in yr 2 and yr 3, you have to pick a certain number of them to get enough points for the year kind of thing.

So their might be 3 modules everyone does, and then out of 6-7 options you have to choose another 3.

I'm doing animal biology Bsc at Notts Trent next year. It'll be great for me as it has a lot of ecology, behaviour and physiology etc rather then doing tons of stuff focused on cells and that. Also you can do a years work placement between yr 2 and 3 in places including zoos.:2thumb:


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

Josh-sama said:


> OH!
> 
> So you get to pick the modules to specialise in your 2nd & 3rd year?


In that particular university, yes. The way the Natural Sciences Tripos course works at Cambridge is that you pick subjects that you prefer in each year, gradually getting more specialised.

For example in your 1st year you get to pick three rather general experimental subjects out of 8 and one maths (from a choice of 3 different maths courses). For example, I picked; Biology of Cells, Chemistry and Physiology of Organisms as well as Mathematical Biology as my maths option.

Then in your second year, depending on what you did before you can pick 3 subjects from about 20 different options. I picked: Animal Biology, Cell and Developmental Biology and Experimental Psychology.

Then, finally, in my 3rd year I chose to specialise in Zoology out of 16 different subjects and the zoology course had about 12 modules of which you had to pick 4 to study.  So depending on where you felt your interests lie you could do the same course as me but end up specialising in Astrophysics or Genetics or Psychology (to name a few of the 16 options), depending on what options you picked over the 3 years.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Chaika said:


> I just want to point out that the Cambridge Natural Sciences Tripos course is top class. I speak as someone who has gone through it myself and have had the opportunity to compare with courses from other universities. You get a great opportunity to try different subjects within the sciences and an opportunity to really specialise in a chosen field in you second and third year. This is an invaluable opportunity at 18, if you want to go into research, to figure out what kind of field you will be interested in.
> 
> Fair points - I had heard this course was far more "general", and somewhat enforced until quite late on. This is at odds with your description however, which sounds much more moderate.
> 
> ...


See above.


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