# Dying hedgehog- please help me



## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

hi, i have been sold by an unethical person on this forum an aph that is dying.... 
He has been curled in a ball constantly for the last 3 wks (since i've had him) until early this morn. He has big scabs covering 80% of his face, and most of his body. He has lost 11 spikes 2day. 
I havn't seen him out of his ball until today, despite lots of interaction. (was eating and drinking a tiny bit of food s figured he was just not tame) 
My vet thinks it is mange ???? he is very weak but has taken little water from an oral syringe but spilled most of it. (seemed to want it tho as slowly lapped it up). 
My vet said to either have him put to sleep or let him go 'peacefully' in his bed, but i feel like i owe him a chance 2 live... i don't want to see him die as he's still young, however don't think he should be in pain. 
I have 2 other APH's so am aware of the traits etc, but is there anyone out there that is 'to do' with aph's and can offer me advice??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I have never heard of mange in a hedgehog, but I know it is treatable in cats and dogs. I would get a second opinion. Keep hydrating him and keep him walm and quiet and try another vet for a solution, i would be asking my vet for antibiotics if possible in case there is an infection, and there must be some sort of topical skin cream or something that can help with the scabs/wounds.

If two vets both say it is not treatable then I would get it PTS if there is absolutely no chance of recovery, and his life is that bad that vets are recommending euthanasia, it is just the kindest thing.

Have you contacted the seller and asked for their opinion/advice/information on how he was kept, how the others in the litter are, etc?


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

You've said your vet 'thinks' it's mange - did he do a skin scraping to confirm this? Also they should have offered antibiotic injections, anti-inflamatories and a bathing solution to kill off endoparasites and calm the irritation to his skin. To be honest it sounds like your vet doesn't actually know what to do with an aph, and is trying to cover themselves by suggesting he be pts. 

I would seek a second opinion quickly - if the little hedgehog is still young and you can afford the treatment he should be able to overcome even the worst mange. The fact that you've seen him eating and feeding is a positive sign, and indicates that he's not yet lost the will to live. Find yourself another good vet and get him checked out asap.

It may also be worth contacting the aph society, and/or Anthravan on here - I know she keeps aph and may be able to offer more advice or point you in the direction of a good vet. Oh yeah, and have a word with the breeder that sold him to you - did he come with a health guarantee or any paperwork? If so you may be entitled to some compensation. 

Good luck, keep us updated.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

yeah i aint heard of mange in hedgies either though they can suffer from ring worm which i would think would have a similar effect on them as mange if left untreated 

but be warned if it is ring worm its contagious to humans as well as all your other animals 

i would suggest what christy did too and get a second opinion from another vet 

as mange is treatable


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

can the vet not treat the mange? i cant understand why it cant be treated? did he take a scraping and test for it? as there are 2 types of mange, one is hard to treat and the other is really easy to. you have said he has eaten a little, have you been puttin food in at night? and has some of it gone by the mornin? ie how much? some of mine wont come out of their ball while you are there so i rarely get to see them but it doesnt mean there is anything wrong with them.

have you contacted the seller about this too?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Regarding balling, it is not that unusual, nor is quilling. I had an albino come to me with very dry flakey skin, that resulted in a large amount of quilling, I was stepping on her quills for weeks. It also took a month before I could get her to unball for me.

Obviously with him balled up the vet may not be able to see or treat the wounds, if it really is a case of putting him to sleep - a light anaesthetic can't really make things any worse to do scrapings and fully treat him.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Athravan said:


> Regarding balling, it is not that unusual, nor is quilling. I had an albino come to me with very dry flakey skin, that resulted in a large amount of quilling, I was stepping on her quills for weeks. It also took a month before I could get her to unball for me.
> 
> Obviously with him balled up the vet may not be able to see or treat the wounds, if it really is a case of putting him to sleep - *a light anaesthetic can't really make things any worse to do scrapings and fully treat him.[/*quote]
> 
> was just about to say that christy, our vet gives ours a little wiff of gas so that he can check them over with as little distress as possible


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Can you up his heat?? I have 2 the first a male whos happy in a warm room with no extra heat and a little girl that has to have direct contact with a heat pad or she starts to hibernate and doesnt want to eat or move.Just saying this as they are not all the same. Also pm Tan on here shes very good with Hedgies. I agree with all on here get a second opinion, my vets are great until it comes to APH then they know very little. Good Luck with this Hedgie


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

*hi*

one of my females were really tight curled up for weeks so wwe thought nothing of it. But up early this am we so him led on his side looking terrible. I've spoken 2 a local long time breeder (on another site) she's on her way over to me 2 check him over (i no not as good as a vet - but my vet admitted he doesnt no much about aph's, and this lady does.) 
She doesnt think can get mange in aph's, just bad skin. She said it may just be an infection or sumthing. She also said about ringworm / poss fleas / leading to a reaction. 
I think my vet was loathe to do anything as he doesnt know much and felt was kinder.... as he is REALLY weak. I have been giving him water via syringe since this afternoon every hour. he is taking prob 1/2 t spoonful - at a guess... 
He has plenty of heat, away from draughts.... and with heat mat under her cage. 
We've seen him eating last few wks, but thought he wasnt from prob sun-mon time and thought he was gonna hybernate or something. 
The woman i got him from is local 2 me, i cannot find me no for love nor money, but have pm'd her with no response as yet...
However i'm not gonna hold my breath.... he's a yr old, no paper work. He'd not had a drink bottle in with him, and never had a wheel either.... plus only ever feed on cat biscuits so no varied diet... no bed either so we had 2 fashion 1 temperarily out of a cardboard box and some old clothes. 
I'm gonna c what this lady (whos on her way to look at him) says, and hopefully will be able to save him, and get him treated, as i'd hate 2 see the poor little guy pass away, but if its for the best i will. 

Thanks again for the help


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I think you should check for ringworm... There has been at least one breeder lately with proven ringworm in her hedgies and not wanting to help those that have been affected by it, so may be linked?


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

poor hedgie - hope this woman can help you and maybe she could recommend a tidy vet to you also


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> I think you should check for ringworm... There has been at least one breeder lately with proven ringworm in her hedgies and not wanting to help those that have been affected by it, so may be linked?


 
i know where this hog has come from, n where it came from before its last owner so has no link to the ringworm situation you are referin to hun

ive advised that if she can come up to our vets then i can try n get it booked in there as mine have been great with our hogs and would have no problem giving it a light anesthetic to have a look and see what can be done. its about an hours drive from where she is but if it saves the boys life then its worth it and she might have to drive around for that long if not longer lookin for an experienced vet where she is anyway.

im off to collect a rabbit now but if she comes back on can someone please ask her to text me on the numbers in my sig so we can carry on chatting about it. would be nice to get a better outcome for this hog

also to refer to missys comment about him not havin a water bottle with his previous owner, did he not have a water bowl? none of mine have waterbottles as i much prefer bowls with my hedgies


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*hi*

is it scabs or fly eggs as they can get them and it makes them weak if some has hatched as they feed on them 
not that i can see it happening in a home one its just this happens with wild ones 
just an idea


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## pgag_1_york (Mar 12, 2008)

id check him for mites, find a new vet and watch you other hogs if its something contagious

posting some pics may help


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

ive just spoke to the woman missy got this hog off and she says she will be in touch with missy when she gets online. Obviously there are two sides to every story and lets hope that both can sort it out amicably and hopefully the hedgehog can get treated and have a happy outcome

offer still there to ring or text missy


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

my bluetooth isnt working...
i got sum pics on my fone - i can text them 2 my email and then email them 2 people, or if someone can link them up here i can text it 2 them perhaps?? 
it looks like a brown powder on his face (but doesnt seem to move if u gently blow it). my lady who came out (a local breeder) said it may be ringworm... or a skin infection. now need to treat him the other 2 hoggies, my dogs, my daughter me, partner, GREAT!!!
I'm really annoyed 2 tbh,as she sold it 2 me in this condition... i'm worried another poor animal will end up the same. People have told 2 take the hoggie back 2 her and demand my money back. but tbh, i'd rather not. I'm wary of whether he'll survive at least if i try i no he'll be given a good chance 
and gonna give him a warm bath in a mo -hopefully will be able puhim at ease a little.


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

The poor little mite! If you are able to syringe water into him, could you also try some liquidised cat food (wet) to get some nutrition in too. If he is not eating and basically starving to death, he will have no strength whereas a calorie input could give him enough of an energy boost for him to fight this better. I know you said he had a heat mat and that's fab but it may not be direct enough in his weakened state...does his stomach feel toasty warm? If it is even cool to the touch, he needs warming by more direct means, maybe against your skin or on a warm (not hot) towel on a radiator. 

Other than that, everything has been said really so all I can do is wish you luck and hope he pulls through for you.

Big hugs xx


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

put his heat mat in his cage instead of under it, cover it with his bedding so it doesnt burn him and put it on a stat if you have one? 

i need to stay off this thread now i think as i have heard both missys side and the sellers side, which both differ somewhat, i will continue to corespond in pms, if needed


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## leesan (Aug 7, 2007)

i've seen this hedgie 2day - and he looks very* BAD. *
he has like a powdery looking stuff inbetween his eyes - ive no idea what it is so i won't suggest, as i've never seen this with my aph's before. 
All i do no is that claire is mega upset about this poor little lad - and i agree with her, he prob won't pull through, but good on you for trying... i just hope it works for you and you can get a healthy happy chappy once more. 

Good luck with him, and keep me dated.


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## leesan (Aug 7, 2007)

:2thumb:happyhogs... he was nice and warm whilst i was there earlier snuggled up in loadsa clothes....


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh good, that's brill. It's easy to assume they're warm because the environment is but in such a poor state they can often not maintain body temperature. It sounds like you are doing all you can Missy but your vet needs a slap! There is no excuse for his obvious lack of commitment, it doesn't matter whether he knows APHs or not, he knows mammals and should try whatever he can...even if it was unsuccessful, it's better than not trying:bash:

I really hope things work out hon xxx


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

happyhogs said:


> Oh good, that's brill. It's easy to assume they're warm because the environment is but in such a poor state they can often not maintain body temperature. It sounds like you are doing all you can Missy but your vet needs a slap! There is no excuse for his obvious lack of commitment, it doesn't matter whether he knows APHs or not, he knows mammals and should try whatever he can...even if it was unsuccessful, it's better than not trying:bash:
> 
> I really hope things work out hon xxx


 
I disagree there sorry but he did the right thing in stating he didnt have knowledge 

i know of not so long back a vet tried to treat a APH and didnt have knowledge that hedgehog died because of the vets advice and it was a simple diagnoseis to a vet who would have known what they were doing 

The hedgehog was suffering from dry skin..............the vet that had no clue on their care reccommended the owner go off and give it a tea tree bath :bash::bash::bash:

TEA TREE IS LETHAL to APH any vet that knows anything about hedgepigs knows that 

So i think the vet did the right thing is saying they had no knowledge and didnt want to risk treating


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*hi*

i do hope he gets better soon but it does sound like a form of mites but i hope he is ok i hope the person who sold him didnt know she was like this but other people on here cant assume just because they know someone but who knows
sometimes these things just happen and know one is to blame so fingers crossed hun


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

well i'm the person who sold the hog and there was nothing wrong with him when i sold him,i give u 2 bowls 1 for food 1 for water and i also give you dry cat biscuits and wet hedge hog food and told you he loved meal worms
i would not have sold u a sick animal and can't understand why u have only pm'ed me today and then not even waited for me to answer u before slagging me off u don't even know me so don't even try and say u don't think i'll not reply i've now sent u 2 pm's and your've not replyed.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> I disagree there sorry but he did the right thing in stating he didnt have knowledge
> 
> i know of not so long back a vet tried to treat a APH and didnt have knowledge that hedgehog died because of the vets advice and it was a simple diagnoseis to a vet who would have known what they were doing
> 
> ...


Did the vet say he dosent have the knowledge? because how I understand it the vet just said to put the APH to sleep???
PS. Hedgepigs? I must be missing something lol :blush:
PPS sorry blonde moment about the hedgepig thing :blush:


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

A hedgepig is a hedgehog!

I hope you sort something for this little one soon. I know my vet will treat it.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> Did the vet say he dosent have the knowledge? because how I understand it the vet just said to put the APH to sleep???
> PS. Hedgepigs? I must be missing something lol :blush:
> PPS sorry blonde moment about the hedgepig thing :blush:


 
yes she did say at one point that the vet hadnt treated them before 


hedgepigs.........are what i call hedgehogs an others also use that name too :lol2:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> yes she did say at one point that the vet hadnt treated them before
> 
> 
> hedgepigs.........are what i call hedgehogs an others also use that name too :lol2:


Yeah I got that she said he said he hadnt treated them before but I thought he said to put it down, not that he would refuse to treat it because he hasnt trated a APH before.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> Yeah I got that she said he said he hadnt treated them before but I thought he said to put it down, not that he would refuse to treat it because he hasnt trated a APH before.


 
yes but if he had know what he was doing he wouldnt have suggest that an he would have anti biotics already an had skin scrapes done too 


If he was to be seen by a vet that does has knowledge then that will happen


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> yes but if he had know what he was doing he wouldnt have suggest that an he would have anti biotics already an had skin scrapes done too
> 
> 
> If he was to be seen by a vet that does has knowledge then that will happen


Oh I get what you mean now. :2thumb:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> Oh I get what you mean now. :2thumb:


 

LOL thank god for that :lol2::lol2:


how many blonde moments did i count then :whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


jokin hee hee :lol2:


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## coprex (Dec 31, 2008)

:bash:damn:bash:damn:bash:damn,

try all the best for him : victory:


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*hi*

i just hope it all gets sorted


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> LOL thank god for that :lol2::lol2:
> 
> 
> how many blonde moments did i count then :whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:
> ...


I have a blonde hour every now and again :Na_Na_Na_Na:


*edit because I dont know how to spell blonde apparently*


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> I have a blond hour every now and again :Na_Na_Na_Na:


your not alone :blush::whistling2::lol2:


So your not alone on that one hun :2thumb:


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

pictures of the hog 2 weeks before i sold him










and a picture of him the day i got him


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

I do have to say in lindas defence............she pmd me pics of him and he looked happy an healthy to me  

I have to say i was shocked when i heard it was linda as i dont for one moment think she would have sold this hedgehog knowing anything was wrong with him 


But somethings happened in the meantime that really needs sorting by a proper exotics vets


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi

Hope you don't mind me joining the debate.

The simplest, humane and best for the hedgehog is for you to find a vet that knows something about hogs ASAP. Get in touch with Cat about the vet she knows or pick the yellow pages out and phone around.

The longer you leave it the less chance the hoggy has got. !!!!!!!!.

Short term we gave our hoggie that was very poorly, honey, electrolyte powder and warm water solution. A few people will probably disagree with the honey but it worked for us. The honey makes the solution tasty and our extremely poorly hog would try and take it. It will do no harm short term. Molly our hog is still with us and a number of vets told us to prepare for the worst.
If it still eats try a little scrambled with a little honey on but get it to a vet

Best wishes

Neil


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## pgag_1_york (Mar 12, 2008)

pic of hog in question


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

kodakira said:


> Hi
> 
> Hope you don't mind me joining the debate.
> 
> ...


 
Totally agree with you on that neil 

i have to say i wouldnt have even purchased my hoggies if i knew my vet couldnt treat them 

any animal i have purchased i have found a vet for before hand knowing that i can get treatment for them if needed


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

i've been given contact details for a vets about 20 miles away that deals with hogs. so am going 2 call them in the morning. i have been given solution to put in the bath (i say given - being brought over 2moro). and also having ringworm treatment - as it wont hurt to treat him, i've contacted another hedgehogs group and showed them the pic i have of his face - and they all say its not mites and most prob is ringworm or an infection. 
which in hindsight is treatable i no - but as i stated earlier i have no idea of mange blah blah... 
and i'm now leaning 2wards worms as his bum is now swollen and wasnt earlier... although i admit i may be wrong. 

I respect my vet decision as he did not no what one end of a hog to the other.... but i feel i was rite to walk away - as he should of said sorry i cant help u, try find sum1 who can. Not well i dunno so lets just put him 2 sleep!


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

i have to say i wouldnt have even purchased my hoggies if i knew my vet couldnt treat them 

any animal i have purchased i have found a vet for before hand knowing that i can get treatment for them if needed[/quote]

i was under the assumption that my vet would assist me in any probs as they have done with my partners skunk. I hold my hands up though as my nans says though.... 'assumption is the mother of all cock ups'


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

My comment about the vet was based on him saying he thought it was mange but not doing anything further. I remember the teatree incident you speak of and it was a tradegy caused by ignorance but this vet has given a diagnosis and then said to euthanise because he hadn't sufficient knowledge of the species. I think it is irresponsible of a vet to suggest this without first trying active treatment or maybe getting advice from someone with more experience. My vet had never seen an APH before I turned up with mine and was initially reluctant but he read up on them and spoke to another exotics vet and realised it wasn't as big an issue as he first thought. I think vetinary care, much like doctoring or nursing, requires a step further than other jobs and I think a vet with a 'PTS policy cos I don't know what else to do' is someone who ought to reconsider their career.

I do, however, take the point that treatment given without the underpinning knowledge can be lethal and should not be taken lightly but with a hog so poorly, SOME action should have been taken surely?


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

thanks pgag1york for the pics!!!!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

pgag_1_york said:


> pic of hog in question


 
could it be an illergic reaction to something ??

im only asking as i go like that when im illergic to something


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

. I think vetinary care, much like doctoring or nursing, requires a step further than other jobs and I think a vet with a 'PTS policy cos I don't know what else to do' is someone who ought to reconsider their career.

well the vet in question (who i cant really name) has lost my custom... and i wouldn't recommend him to anyone. i've also passed this on to a few other customers that i personally no.


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## pgag_1_york (Mar 12, 2008)

whats his set up like?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

miss-stoke1987 said:


> i have to say i wouldnt have even purchased my hoggies if i knew my vet couldnt treat them
> 
> any animal i have purchased i have found a vet for before hand knowing that i can get treatment for them if needed


i was under the assumption that my vet would assist me in any probs as they have done with my partners skunk. I hold my hands up though as my nans says though.... 'assumption is the mother of all cock ups'[/quote]


LOL i had a gran like that too 

yeah i know what you mean hun i have had skunks here that vets tried to treat and couldnt but my vets could 

its hard one really wen it actually comes to them needing the treatment


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

I totally agree with you about the vet, i would have done the same.

Glad to hear you have hopefully found a vet with knowledge.

I would not treat the hedgehog with anything until you have seen the vet. He may want to treat with something that may conflict with the treatment you are giving.
As for it doing no harm i would not treat any animals unless I knew what I was treating for, just my opinion though.

best wishes for your hoggy and hope he pulls through.

Neil


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

Here's another suggestion from a lady who belongs to another forum. She has experience of wild hog rescue and has APH too...

hi,have read this post on the other forum, but can't reply as not a member! was wondering if it was worth her trying rehydration fluid, i use this on the wild ones when they're sick as plain water doesn't do anything, you can make it yourself using 1 litre of cooled/warm boiled water,1 teaspoon of salt and 1 tablespoon sugar, you can dilute it more just incase as its an aph but it usually perks them up a bit quicker to enable a liquid cat feed.also has to be given warm to a warm hog otherwise they get bad bellyache.
sorry for butting in,but my guess is its worth a try.


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

its a cage he's norm in. But have put him in a tub to try to preserve sum heat, heatmat under him and he's got sum old teeshirts to snuggle in and have been swapping and keeping the bedding warm by radiator. hes next 2 me downstairs so can keep an eye on him. like i said is 'bum' is swollen but has just taken 1 ml of water.... so watch this space!!!!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

To be honest if a vet had told me that something was definitely mange, and needed to be PTS as there was not a treatment, without actually doing the tests, nor knowing if the animal could be treated or not, I would be reporting them to the governing body.

People trust their vets, and many animals are PTS based on the diagnosis of one vet. No vet should ever call for an animal to be PTS simply because they do not know what is wrong with it, or make statements about it being diseases without actually doing the tests for those diseases.

So if it is diagnosed as something treatable such as ringworm by another vet, the first vets behaviour is totally unacceptable. Imagine if a doctor told us we had an untreatable disease and were going to die - without doing any tests or actually knowing anything about that disease!


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

I dont think housing him in a tub will help...... that kind of environment holds moisture and they need good ventilation. His skin condition may be aggrivated by moisture and it may end up a soggy mess. 

It looks like a fungal infection. Imaverol will help but you have to get this from a vet. 

Whatever it has got the poor hog cant be comfortable. 

Hope you manage to sort it out.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Athravan said:


> To be honest if a vet had told me that something was definitely mange, and needed to be PTS as there was not a treatment, without actually doing the tests, nor knowing if the animal could be treated or not, I would be reporting them to the governing body.
> 
> People trust their vets, and many animals are PTS based on the diagnosis of one vet. No vet should ever call for an animal to be PTS simply because they do not know what is wrong with it, or make statements about it being diseases without actually doing the tests for those diseases.
> 
> So if it is diagnosed as something treatable such as ringworm by another vet, the first vets behaviour is totally unacceptable. Imagine if a doctor told us we had an untreatable disease and were going to die - without doing any tests or actually knowing anything about that disease!


 

christy is there a possibility that looking at the pics it could be an illergic reaction to something ?

I mean i know dogs an cats can be illergic to things as can humans 

what if its washing powder or something..............

all of my animals bedding is washed just on a red hot wash with no washing powder as i have a dog thats illergic to it so cant use it 


could this possibly be the thing only reason i say is the swelling of the snout and my dog an me look like that if i use washin powder in there washed an me using comfort


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

Athravan said:


> To be honest if a vet had told me that something was definitely mange, and needed to be PTS as there was not a treatment, without actually doing the tests, nor knowing if the animal could be treated or not, I would be reporting them to the governing body.


Something i think i need to look into. Dont want anyother animal suffer do i?



Athravavan said:


> octor told us we had an untreatable disease and were going to die - without doing any tests or actually knowing anything about that disease!


Thats a very good point Athravan, i think my ignorance needs 2 be stamped on


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

When you say his bum is swollen, do you mean his rear end or his actual anus. Only if it's his rear end, he may be constipated which may be relieved by gentle massage of his tummy. It may also be a sign of parasites??


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> christy is there a possibility that looking at the pics it could be an illergic reaction to something ?
> 
> what if its washing powder or something.............


thats what i thought this morning. but then the dog said mange - which my partner thought. (but app u dont get it in hogs..)
I never thought bout that. he's been in old (but clean clothes) since i've had him, which is used as a bed. And on the flooring on the cage i a heatmat then put newspaper and then a blanket to keep the heat in. I only do this as this is what my girls were in when i bought them. so i just did the same. 
I don't think its a reaction to my dog - i'm sure linda had a dog 
p.s sorry linda if u havn't. but it's in my head that u have... 
so if linda doesn't have a dog then it may be that, but if she does then unlikely... if this makes sense.. lol


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Emmaj said:


> christy is there a possibility that looking at the pics it could be an illergic reaction to something ?
> 
> I mean i know dogs an cats can be illergic to things as can humans
> 
> ...


To be honest none of my hedgehogs have ever need to go to a vet yet, and my vet is away until the 6th Jan or I would ask her, I believe she is reasonabley knowledgeable in exotic mammals though.

It could be an allergic reaction I would think, it would make sense. My dog recently had quite a bad allergic reaction that made the inside of his ears swell up and go all scabby - to glades shake n vac that I used on the stairs, I had no idea. He has a topical antibiotic treatment that goes on his ears twice a day at the moment. Animals can be allergic to all sorts of chemicals, it depends if anything new has been used?


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

i have tried stroking his tummy etc - well wen he's letting me. but he doesnt seem to wanna be touched atm. he's just rolling up in a ball so its hard. 
he has been moving his bowels - but not much. then again he hasnt been eating much. so i'm not sure whether constipated or not.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Athravan said:


> To be honest none of my hedgehogs have ever need to go to a vet yet, and my vet is away until the 6th Jan or I would ask her, I believe she is reasonabley knowledgeable in exotic mammals though.
> 
> It could be an allergic reaction I would think, it would make sense. My dog recently had quite a bad allergic reaction that made the inside of his ears swell up and go all scabby - to glades shake n vac that I used on the stairs, I had no idea. He has a topical antibiotic treatment that goes on his ears twice a day at the moment. Animals can be allergic to all sorts of chemicals, it depends if anything new has been used?


 
see thats what i would sway to too as i have seen illergic reactions in animals and they were like that very swollen an scabby 

i had a bad allergic reaction myself to somat too not so long since an looked like that too 

thats the only reason why i thought the allergic thing


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

gross, I know, but have you checked whatever he is passing for signs of parasites. A lot of them can be too small to see but sometimes they are visible and it might give you an answer. What consistency/colour are they? Are they 'normal' or loose, dark or green?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

To be honest, a hedgehog that is eating and going to the bathroom (even if only a little), is responding to stimuli, can ball up properly and unfurl if he wants to, is not suggesting a hedgehog on the brink of death to me.

Hopefully if you can get some cream or solution to ease/treat the skin condition, his discomfort and pain should be eased. I would be very worried if he was lethargic or not balling up at all even when threatened/frightened, or incapable of doing so. The fact he has the energy and ability to do it is actually a positive sign I think.


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

if ya think bout it - everything would be new. cos linda said she used straw for his bedding - and looking back i should of carried on. just thought 2 use bedding like with the other 2. 
So if its a reaction, i'm assuming its 2 my washing powder. 
i've just spoke 2 linda - she does have dogs and other pets, so i'm assuming its not due to the dog (thank god or one of them would of had 2 go and would of been hard 2 treat).


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I'm allergic to biological washing powder, have terrible rashes, a lot of people are, I wash all my hedgies towels with non bio like my own clothes.


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

I agree with Athravan, he obviously hasn't given up the fight yet :2thumb:


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

its all washed in non bio - as i use i for my daughters sensitive skin - but maybe even this is 2 much?? 
I cant check the poo, the little sod ignores his litter tray, (although stays on one side of the cage... lol) so poos and wees on the floor, so clean it out everyday, and (after just checking upstairs...) the cage has no poo.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

When was the last time you cleaned it, today ?.

Were there droppings in the cage ?.


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

Never mind...but keep an eye out for any more! In the mean time, the allergy slant can be looked at....have you not got some kitchen roll or something like that, that you can 'bed' him into, just in case allergy is the cause? Or straw/hay if that's what he had before? A bath would probably help if he was a little stronger but may not be a good idea just yet, maybe the re-hydration idea first and maybe some liquidised food to give him some strength.

And we'll all send good Karma too xxxx:flrt:


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

i just wanna say sorry 2 linda.....

This morning i was soooooo upset so was told mange, and he was gonna die etc. was feeling awful as was so sure he'd die. 
So if it came across that i was ranting at u (which it prob did cos i'm a :censor: when hurt or upset) then am really sorry. 
I've been chatting to linda the last hour or so, and she don't seem the type 2 dump a poorly animal on sum1, also chatting 2 cat - who says that she a good un (and i think emmaj - sorry if not.... lol - am doing a blondie mo!) 
Once again linda am sorry, esp if is a reaction, then obviously not ur fault. but mine - yes i can admit when i'm wrong. 
and in hindsight IF it was a problem he came to me with (and i mean IF) then i'm sre linda wouldnt of known.
So i do apologise (yes yet again),


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

miss-stoke1987 said:


> its all washed in non bio - as i use i for my daughters sensitive skin - but maybe even this is 2 much??
> I cant check the poo, the little sod ignores his litter tray, (although stays on one side of the cage... lol) so poos and wees on the floor, so clean it out everyday, and (after just checking upstairs...) the cage has no poo.


its possible its too much i have to wash my dogs stuff in nothing cos one of them is illergic to all washing powders


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*hi*

yes i have just been looking it up and it does sound like an allergic reaction but it could be mange or mites as they can get any of them 
could you buy some vet bedding is that safe with hedgehogs ?
can anyone else on her suggest anything?
what has he been fed etc etc ?
i dont know nothing about them im just trying to help get some ideas


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

he's only been feed on the dry food he was given with, as he refused the meat and barely ate anything so practically still got wat was given. I've layered cage with newspaper for warmth, and put kitchen roll in for his bed, (ive got no straw / hay, will get 2moro.) 
Only time will tell whether is or not


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

*i couldn't do enough for him*

hi all. thanks very much for your help, but it's all been in vain i'm afraid  
The lad closed his eyes for the last time last nite. 
I'd gone 2 bed about 12 - took him with me, to give a little water. Was putting water in the syringe when he started shaking slightly (not sure if it was a small seizure??), he moved his bowels on me and went still. 
I wish i could of done more, the poor little mite was only a yr old, and didn't even have a name. 
The only consolation there is now is that he's not suffering (as i'm so sure he was in pain)
Thanks again for all your help and advice.


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## happyhogs (Nov 18, 2008)

so sorry


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

Do you think it would be worth getting an autopsy done?! They "why" would torture me. I'm so sorry for your loss xxx


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I too would have a pm done but to do that you need a vet who knows about APH 
RIP little hedgie so sorry for your loss miss-stokes


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## miss-stoke1987 (Oct 12, 2008)

A pm will be carried out on monday. i'll let u all no how it goes and what cause of death was. 
Thanks for all the advice and support : victory:


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## Heavenlyhogs (May 15, 2008)

Sorry to learn of your loss...i would have the vet do a necropsy for sure.Shame i haven't been about i would have suggested you contact Tan on here as she has more advise and knowledge than anyone i know in APH's.
Poor little mite thoughts are with you.

Unfortunately bacterial skin infections are very very common in hedgies and they can often hide the fact they are sick for a long time,while having something like this it can effect the immune system and something more sinister can set it.
He may well have died of pneumonia if he needed extra heat to prevent hibernation as some hedgies do and i would seriously not recommend keeping hedgies without extra heat to anyone anymore as this also protects their immune system and keeps it boosted thus keeping your hedgie healthy.
It's not the sellers fault,as i well know being in a rather s****y situation myself a few months back,comes with the territory i'm afraid,these things happen.


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

So sorry he didn't pull through.

Jo


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Awwwww hun have followed this all the way through and i am so sorry that he never pulled through. I really hope the pm brings up something and you can put ur mind at rest. You did everything you could and that is amazing in itself.


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## coprex (Dec 31, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Awwwww hun have followed this all the way through and i am so sorry that he never pulled through. I really hope the pm brings up something and you can put ur mind at rest. You did everything you could and that is amazing in itself.


agreed


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## Heavenlyhogs (May 15, 2008)

Ditto


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