# Wild rats/mice



## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

Hi, 
I have a wild mice/rat problem. I have an internal storage cupboard with no doors/windows, when i have gone in to get my rabbits food i seen a very large rodent (which i believe to b a rat but it was dark and it moved very quick) run and climb into the wall space were pipes run out of (the cupboard bks onto my kitchen and the pipes run behind my kitchen units) I removed the rabbit food, and have got 2 humane traps, a large metal cage type with a hook to hang food on but the food keeps dissapearing (trap has been set off twice and twice still open but no critter and no bait) the 2nd i have is a plastic one which has succesfully caught a small mouse which has been released outdoors. Any ideas on what food to use to make the metal trap more likely to catch something larger? Ive been using ham which they seem to like but think it may b too easy to pull off the hook.


The mouse that was caught has small droppings, really large ears and a white belly, the other droppings ive found in the cupboard are twice the width so believe i have both rats and mice. 
Any other ideas on how to humanely remove a rat if this is what i have? And how i can check where they would be getting in from? I live in a ground floor flat and the only door i have is my front door which is in a block that has a main door. 

Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been covered the search function on fone is rubbish x

Hannah


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Bab1084 said:


> (trap has been set off twice and twice still open but no critter and no bait)


Okay. Expand on this, please ^. 

A photo / link to a google shot of the trap would help greatly.

The rodent you caught sounds like Apodemus.

I actually know what I'm talking about.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, that sounds like a Woodmouse you've caught there.

Chocolate is very successful at catching rats and mice, maybe if you use something with a soft/chewy centre coated in chocolate it will still to the hook, so the critter has to really pull to get it off??

It's food that attracts them, particularly with rats, so usually if you stop the food supply they will move on. Do any of your neighbours feed birds, because that brings them in and, because it's a reliable food source, they settle and breed?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

If you've got rats I certainly wouldn't worry about removing them humanely.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

feorag said:


> Yes, that sounds like a Woodmouse you've caught there.
> 
> Chocolate is very successful at catching rats and mice, maybe if you use something with a soft/chewy centre coated in chocolate it will still to the hook, so the critter has to really pull to get it off??
> 
> It's food that attracts them, particularly with rats, so usually if you stop the food supply they will move on. Do any of your neighbours feed birds, because that brings them in and, because it's a reliable food source, they settle and breed?


No, tbh theres brambles behind shared garden and a school/big field. Ive removed the rabbit food but im certain they were already here when i moved in as my bro and his gf's patterdale has always zoned in and gone nuts at the bottom of kitchen units and skirting boards along the main exterior walls while my 2 staffs e too flippin lazy to care! Hahaha i will try some choccy, i heard they lovd it but wasnt sure if it cud b used incase it would harm them like dogs etc

Thanking you!


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

Stephen P said:


> If you've got rats I certainly wouldn't worry about removing them humanely.


I cant hurt any living creature and tbh theyve not done me any harm, its a cupboard for storage they r getting in to, maybe a few chewed wires and some rabbit food no big deal really. 

I just want them out so they dnt attack my dogs or rabbit ? (both the dogs and rabbit would probs curl up an go sleep with them if given chance)


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Bab1084 said:
> 
> 
> > (trap has been set off twice and twice still open but no critter and no bait)
> ...


 thank uuuuu!!!
the small plastic trap is what weve caught lil mouse in (poop on 1st pic is small poop off mouse in plastic trap and the big banana poop which is 1cm long (yes ive just measured it yukkkky lol) i believe may b rat poop?

Ive been using bacon/ham for traps so far.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

There were some photos on another UK Forum where a rat came in through an open window and attacked a pet terrapin.

Absolutely no time to be sentimental. They are vermin. Your rabbit and neighbours won't thank you.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

Stephen P said:


> There were some photos on another UK Forum where a rat came in through an open window and attacked a pet terrapin.
> 
> Absolutely no time to be sentimental. They are vermin. Your rabbit and neighbours won't thank you.


 fair enuff i understand were ur coming from but my rabbit is in a diff room and the cupboard its getting into has no other way of a rat getting into other rooms, ano i said the pipes lead behind my kitchen cupboards but its all in the cavity walls. Only place it gets into is my storage cupboard, all skirting boards r tight to walls and no gaps and kick boards in kitchen have lino going all way up, we have checked inside all kitchen cupboards and none ot the gaps r big enuff for anythin to get thru even the smallest of mice. Speaking of which ive just caught another mouse


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Bab1084 said:
> 
> 
> > (trap has been set off twice and twice still open but no critter and no bait)
> ...


Just caught another! This looks bigger than the last one but only going off pics my mum showed me while i was at work. Looked like large mouse to me but its been yrs since ive had either as pets so cudnt b sure., what do u think it is hun? U seem to have a lot more knowledge than me xx
Thanks again in advance


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

We had a rat come in. It bit through the floorboards, carpet gripper, carpet underlay and carpet. We were totally unaware of it as it was using a hole a mouse had made, which we had caught, behind a fish tank wooden stand. It was a large hole, and only discovered as we were re-arranging the turtles tanks. It then made its way along a shelf above a turtle tank, dropped down onto the floor and then climbed up the parrot cages, ate the leftover seed husks from both cages, and then sat on a shelf dropping any remaining husks in an empty plant pot. We had no idea as there were no droppings, and only knew when we started painting a ceiling and when above the shelf could see all the debris in the plant pot.

We blocked off the hole with wire and a fixed piece of wood. The next morning it had chewed through the floorboards again as there was a hole in the middle of the carpet. This room is extended and it chewed through the floorboard and the concrete of the extension where they joined. It then left poo on the floor. The carpet was taken up that day, but that night we could hear it under the floor. As we banged on the floor it was running around underneath. The next morning we emptied the understairs cupboard and it had been in there judging by all the poo. As we had obviously stopped it coming into the living room that night, we could hear it gnawing through the floorboards in the understairs cupboard.

Fortunately, we were covered by house insurance and the 'rat man' put traps and poison down under the floor. We have not caught anything, but he visited weekly for three weeks and was 100% it was only the one adult.

Up until we blocked the hole off, we heard absolutely nothing overnight. The strangest part being that neither parrot made a noise. Our elderly deaf cat also slept in the living room. I dread thinking about it now, and what we could have found in the morning.

Talking to other people, it is surprising how many people have had similar problems including one person who actually had them living/breeding in the cavity walls.

They travel miles overnight and apparently have a set route. It just got lucky in our house, but is quite likely it went into others, but there was no food, as such, lying about.


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

OP; That mouse is, as I suspected, Apodemus. Undeniably cute little buggers, aren't they?

The cage trap ye have there was, originally, known as a " Whole Family " trap. Realm of unicorns, that was. As close to utterly useless as any cage could ever be. The only way I ever got them to work was to wire a meaty bone to that ridiculous hook.

Rat has to have something he wants, and is ready to work for. Wire a hard bait to that hook and he'll sit up and use his teeth and claws. Thus pushing and pulling.

It seems you're absolutely adamant that ye won't kill a living thing? Right. Okay then. Not a lot more I can offer. I'm a retired rat catcher and never worked for anyone who insisted I let the things go.

Your only recourse will be proofing them out. But, even then, their continued presence around the property will be a constant, lethal, risk to that dear little Dog of yours. But, that's between you and your own ideals.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> OP; That mouse is, as I suspected, Apodemus. Undeniably cute little buggers, aren't they?
> 
> The cage trap ye have there was, originally, known as a " Whole Family " trap. Realm of unicorns, that was. As close to utterly useless as any cage could ever be. The only way I ever got them to work was to wire a meaty bone to that ridiculous hook.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input, its appreciated. Im going to check tomorrow and see if theres anywhere outside that i can see where they may be getting in from. 

I will try wiring something to the hook and see what happens, i hate the thought of having to use poison but u obvs know what ur talking about and when u say my dogs r at risk i would do anything to protect them, they r both so docile that they wudnt see the rat as a threat. When i set one of the mice free my female dog didnt even bat an eye lid or attempt to chase it. 

And yes those lil mice r so adorable, quite friendly/docile as well, ive caught 3 now all diff sizes,


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Threat to ye Dogs is, I'm afraid, a lot more sinister and covert than some deranged rat attempting to bite them.

My advice would be to get one of these stands that holds their bowls off the ground. Feed / water them only indoors. And completely remove any food / throw out the water, before ye settle down for the evening. Look for and remove any outside sources of still water completely.

Thing is, to try and remove any risk of a rat getting into their bowls. If it urinates in one? Horribly dead Dog is a distinct possibility. So called Lepto jab is virtually useless, by the way.

Sadly, that doesn't negate a rat entering the kitchen and leaving traces of urine on the floor. Do be aware though; If one gets in ~ and they very easily will ~ it'll be all over ye work surfaces too. That puts You at grave risk.

Depending on how far ye willing to go; I can offer ye plenty of guidance. Only, I'm tired of the sound of my own voice, just now.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Threat to ye Dogs is, I'm afraid, a lot more sinister and covert than some deranged rat attempting to bite them.
> 
> My advice would be to get one of these stands that holds their bowls off the ground. Feed / water them only indoors. And completely remove any food / throw out the water, before ye settle down for the evening. Look for and remove any outside sources of still water completely.
> 
> ...


 i genuinely didnt know rat urine was dangerous to dogs. I pick up the dogs food bowls after they have been fed every evening, i wipe all my work surfaces down with a bleach solution before i prep any food thru habit as i used to own cats. 
But saying all that i have just been in my kitchen sink cupboard were i keep all my cleaning/house hold products and noticed some mouse poo (never had this problem before) i really dont want to b over run with mice and rats and think i am gonna have to suck it up and go down the route i didnt want to. 

All advice is greatly welcomed, if i did put poison traps down wudnt they die in cavitys in the wall and start to smell?


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Thing is, to try and remove any risk of a rat getting into their bowls. If it urinates in one? Horribly dead Dog is a distinct possibility. So called Lepto jab is virtually useless, by the way.


 just had a lil look on web about lepto and it sounds bloody awful, as much as am against killing anything id rather my dogs be safe! Thanks for ur advice , i will make sure i rewash the dogs bowls before i feed them each night and pick up the water bowl when i go to bed. Im genuinely thankful that u have opened my eyes x


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Depending on how far ye willing to go; I can offer ye plenty of guidance. Only, I'm tired of the sound of my own voice, just now.


 is there anything i cud use as a poison that i may have at home until i can speak to my local health dept/landlord or buy sumthing on monday?


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

No. Absolutely not. There's always some idiot will pop up, talking about Alka Seltza and Coke. Treat them with the contempt they deserve.

Rodenticides come in a mind boggling array. There's more to know about each type and formulation than I'd care to try and explain here.

In fact, I'd rather suggest ye leave baits alone and just go with simple, modern, snap traps. I've favored branded, genuine Kness, since they came out. Here is a link to their US site, just to explain them. Look for them, for purchase where ye will, in UK.

Four of them should cover your needs. Half a dozen would be peachy. If ye interested? I can talk to ye about baiting them. Positioning and cover.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> No. Absolutely not. There's always some idiot will pop up, talking about Alka Seltza and Coke. Treat them with the contempt they deserve.
> 
> Rodenticides come in a mind boggling array. There's more to know about each type and formulation than I'd care to try and explain here.
> 
> ...


 i started reading how they worked and It turned my stomach but seem to b quick/instant. id have to get my mum or brother to set and empty them for me but yes any info on bait and position wud b greatly received as i cud share the info with them, as i dnt think i could set the traps or want to see/hear of whats been caught. Lol it wudnt technically be me then killing them wud it!........


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Brother? Good. I was looking for a man. If he has a hammer and a saw to his name, we might have a little job for him, later.

Now; Do ye live urban, or rural? And, this garden? A snap shot would be useful. Obviously, in real life, I'd turn up and inspect every inch of it, to suss out what's going on and formulate my plans. From here though, we'll have to settle for a picture.

Sadly, the snow I expect we're both covered with won't help. But, again, I'll just have to make do. Better than nothing.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Brother? Good. I was looking for a man. If he has a hammer and a saw to his name, we might have a little job for him, later.
> 
> Now; Do ye live urban, or rural? And, this garden? A snap shot would be useful. Obviously, in real life, I'd turn up and inspect every inch of it, to suss out what's going on and formulate my plans. From here though, we'll have to settle for a picture.
> 
> Sadly, the snow I expect we're both covered with won't help. But, again, I'll just have to make do. Better than nothing.


Yep one of the brothers will have a hammer and saw, my older bro owns the property facin that he rents out, so am sure he will b more than willing to help as if they r getting in mine they will more than likely b getting in his.

I live in skelmersdale, lancashire which is a small town and classed as urban/rural but i would say more urban were i live. 

Garden may b a problem getting pics until the weekend when am off work. I will see if my mum or sis in law can take some for me tomorrow if poss.

Weve not really had much snow, especially not as much as other places.


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

First concern is to get those traps. One behind the kick board is a must. Another, in the ubiquitous cupboard under the sink is good too.

Rats often follow the pipe work and will gnaw through where a pipe passes through the formica. Thus ending up in that cupboard. A trap, ready and waiting, is better than a dozen set, once he's got in there.

Now, what about the back door? Is it positioned to one side of the rear of the property? A trap, in a box ye man there can make, will guard that. Probably the outside pipe as well.

Then, ye'd probably do well to have such a set up along each of the side boundaries. I'm imagining some form of fences? 


Just to put this into some form of context ~ for you, and anyone else interested in all this: _If_ those traps cost ye a fiver a piece ~ which I'd consider unlikely ~ ye looking at thirty quid outlay. 

Local, one man band, jobbing pester? Probably charge ye £50.00 to put a single bait box down. Then come and take it away a week or so later. One of the major, household name outfits would charge ye a mortgage for the same. I'm charging nothing. Ye get to keep what ever ye buy. Always available.

Is there a kebab shop, locally?


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

Bab1084 said:


> el Snappo said:
> 
> 
> > Brother? Good. I was looking for a man. If he has a hammer and a saw to his name, we might have a little job for him, later.
> ...


 ye kebab shop over road! Bloody mice r upstairs in me mums now as well. Hahaha me bros gf was on toilet and one ran outa the pipe work in wall! She screamed so loud!!!! Hahahaha my stupid ass staffs have seen them and done nothin, one butts the bloomin trap to get the food out! Terrible these evil staffs yano!! Hahahaha wish i still had me cats! i wudnt have this problem!!!


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Well, ye _have_ the problem. Cats wouldn't sort it. But, so long as you're happy to laugh it off? That's cool.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> Well, ye _have_ the problem. Cats wouldn't sort it. But, so long as you're happy to laugh it off? That's cool.


 if i didnt laugh hun id cry! I know when u say its serious ur tellin me i have a problem! Dnt take me sayin hahaha as me laughing it off its just the way i reply to most things, as i said i do appreciate ur help! I really do, genuinely! X i laugh more at the fact that me dogs r that docile they wudnt do anythin with a mouse if it run over there head x


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

When ye've taken it seriously enough to get the traps, let me know.


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## John123john (Jun 12, 2017)

Try to use trpas, for example, but do not use poison. Or try to call Orkin - https://www.orkin.com. As i know they are good in the rat's determination.


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## Bab1084 (Dec 9, 2011)

el Snappo said:


> When ye've taken it seriously enough to get the traps, let me know.


not been on for a while sorry hun, I took your advice and my bro got me some traps,,,,,, eeeek not had no probs for couple of months now. 


John123john said:


> Try to use trpas, for example, but do not use poison. Or try to call Orkin - https://www.orkin.com. As i know they are good in the rat's determination.


rang council/landlord, they put poison in communal areas (loft spaces etc) and as above me bro got traps and so far so good.


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