# Do people breed for profit?



## Daphne (Aug 4, 2012)

After having a very brief look at a few exotic species, it seems some require a lot of effort to care for, and are even more hard work to breed! Got me wondering, how do people afford to keep up their hobby? Do people breed for profit? Or is it an expensive hobby more restricted to people who are already wealthy? Just curious, because in the world of mouse breeding it's very hard just to break even if you put effort in caring for your animals!


----------



## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

Daphne said:


> After having a very brief look at a few exotic species, it seems some require a lot of effort to care for, and are even more hard work to breed! Got me wondering, how do people afford to keep up their hobby? Do people breed for profit? Or is it an expensive hobby more restricted to people who are already wealthy? Just curious, because in the world of mouse breeding it's very hard just to break even if you put effort in caring for your animals!


Some people definitely do, I'm using a chihuahua for an example, not very exotic but, some people charge upwards of £1000 for them.

However, some only want to keep up their hobby so they don't really earn much more than they spent.

Like my dog, she was in an accidental litter and the owner wanted to get back all she'd spent on vets bills and then enough to cover the dog's spaying.

Some don't earn anything, some only do it for profit.


: victory:


----------



## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

Certainly since if you dont make a profit you want have money to buy rodents, invest in animals, supplies ect...


----------



## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

like with any animal realy, some people will breed for the love of there animal and hobby and then you have some people who only care about making money, now im not saying anyone who makes money breeding automaticly doesnt care about there animals but there are some people who only think about making money off there animals and only have them for that reason.
Taking mice as an example, there are people who breed them back to back constantly untill the mums burn out, breed the young asap, keep them cramped tougher with minamal care and sell off babies as soon as they start nibbling on food to get rid as soon as possible. You get the same in dogs (puppy farms) and cats and im sure you will get the same in exotic animals as if there is money to be made someone will want to make as much as possible.


----------



## Warren (Oct 22, 2009)

When I hear people talking about breeding their animals for profit, I usually think about people who breed their animals with the sole intention of keeping any profit to spend on themselves with no real regard to the animal's wellbeing. There are people who do this with exotic animals in the same way people do this with dogs and cats. If demand is always greater than supply then places like that thrive. Heck, my moggie got stolen as he was confused for a purebred cat which is in high demand nowadays.

I don't think you can rely on paying for your animals by selling them. It's not a reliable market and it's not exactly ethical. What if the price drops suddenly? What if your animals become ill and need medication? You can't sell ill offspring but need to pay for the vets somehow. How will you pay for your animals then? Breed them more often? Scrimp on supplies?
When getting any animal I think you need money to spare, exotic or not.


----------



## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Its an interesting subject. I certainly agree you should never get any animal on the assumption you can care for it on the proceeds of offspring sales, you must have the money to care for it well without the 'need' to breed. I'm also a strong believer that you should not have an animal unless it is your pet, or member of your family, first and foremost.
That said, I see no harm in breeding for profit generally. I know people can be very sensitive about this but providing that-
Said animal is well cared for, including stimulation/human contact (ie, loved)
There is not an over population of the species/homes for offspring are guaranteed
The owner can afford to cover emergency vet bills etc
I don't personally see a problem.


----------



## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Problem is its very very hard to make a profit while providing top quality care for your animals.

Animals that cost hundreds of pounds usually require specialist care, they may include vaccinations and chips, licenses and documents. Preparing for births and caring for young may require expensive diets, vet appointments, time consuming and general increase in bills.
On the other hand they may just be rare and someone who is willing to pay top dollar will be someone willing to provide them with all the necessities and maybe work on breeding them/improving standard etc.

Breeders selling cheap offspring, may be because they're cutting corners and perhaps not have the animals welfare top of their list.

Not saying thats always the case, but more often than not...


----------



## Guest (Aug 8, 2012)

PPVallhunds said:


> like with any animal realy, some people will breed for the love of there animal and hobby and then you have some people who only care about making money, now im not saying anyone who makes money breeding automaticly doesnt care about there animals but there are some people who only think about making money off there animals and only have them for that reason.
> Taking mice as an example, there are people who breed them back to back constantly untill the mums burn out, breed the young asap, keep them cramped tougher with minamal care and sell off babies as soon as they start nibbling on food to get rid as soon as possible. You get the same in dogs (puppy farms) and cats and im sure you will get the same in exotic animals as if there is money to be made someone will want to make as much as possible.


I appreciate your point, but I think if it was somebodies sole intention to just make money, they wouldn't go in to breeding exotic pets. There must be something there before they get in to that, a passion. Then some people just realise they can make money off their passion. If you can do that, you're in a good place.


----------



## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

x Sarah x said:


> Problem is its very very hard to make a profit while providing top quality care for your animals.
> 
> Animals that cost hundreds of pounds usually require specialist care, they may include vaccinations and chips, licenses and documents. Preparing for births and caring for young may require expensive diets, vet appointments, time consuming and general increase in bills.
> On the other hand they may just be rare and someone who is willing to pay top dollar will be someone willing to provide them with all the necessities and maybe work on breeding them/improving standard etc.
> ...


Totally agree.

I bred pedigree cats for nearly 20 years and I know overall I made a loss. My closest stud cat (that I wanted to use for the lines) was either in Birmingham or Gloucester, which meant 2 journeys, there were blood tests before the queen could be mated and the stud fee, before I even knew the queen was pregnant. Extra, more expensive kitten food for the queen and then along came the kittens. Pedigree cats have to be vaccinated before we can sell them, which means paying for vaccination and feeding kittens for 5 weeks longer than most people think.

The general rule of thumb was that you needed to have 3 kittens to cut even (unless of course you kept your own stud cat - that saved a bit of money). I had 4 litters of single kittens which cost me money and a few litters of 2 kittens, so barely covered my costs. 

I once had a litter of 5, so I made a reasonable profit on that litter. The queens next litter though, she carried 3 kittens and she was due a week after my Oriental queen who carried 6 kittens. 2 c-sections later, each queen produced 2 live kittens, one queen lost them both within 24 hours and the other lost one at 10 days. After all the heartbreak I couldn't bear to part with the survivor. I worked out she cost me £954 to produce, so I registered her as "Feorag Kosta Fortune" :lol2: How long do you think it took me to ever get that back in profit??


----------



## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Think I breed for a ton of reasons, unlike most others I got into exotics due to the genetics behind breeding. I love thinking about what can hatch when two snakes are paired. But I'd be lying if I said I've never thought about some if the prices these hard to breed morphs go for. It's not my some reason for breeding but when I do breed its nice to hit crazy odds snd make a profit. 
That being said my profit to date stands at minus six thousand lol

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## SeanieeBoy (Aug 8, 2012)

*Yes*

Breeding is for profit as it gives money to the breeder to buy food for the snake and any other essentials for a next breeding session i know people who started breeding royal royal pythons and then got money from it and bought 2 baby boa constrictiors and with money from his parents he bred those 2 and had racks for them paid by his parents but after all these snakes breeding that he had he bought a reptile shop and done it all there and now today he paid his parents back for everything they paid for to start this buissness and he is now wealthy and happy with his reptile shops that he owns i havent seen him in a while but im sure its still going well so definetly the profit that you gain from breeding is one of the big reasons people do it in the first place


----------



## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Absolutely - you have to be prepated to take the rough with the smooth. Juggling, if you like! As long as you dont mind the lows and love your animals regardless, ethically its ok.


----------



## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

SeanieeBoy said:


> Breeding is for profit as it gives money to the breeder to buy food for the snake and any other essentials for a next breeding session i know people who started breeding royal royal pythons and then got money from it and bought 2 baby boa constrictiors and with money from his parents he bred those 2 and had racks for them paid by his parents but after all these snakes breeding that he had he bought a reptile shop and done it all there and now today he paid his parents back for everything they paid for to start this buissness and he is now wealthy and happy with his reptile shops that he owns i havent seen him in a while but im sure its still going well so definetly the profit that you gain from breeding is one of the big reasons people do it in the first place


Totally agree with you mate, thats what I was saying but you worded it better :2thumb:


----------



## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

I think there is profit to be made in reptiles, but not so much mammals.

Lets face it, reptiles in general lay more eggs than a mammals average litter, there food intake does not increase with being gravid, if anything it decreases.
There is no after care when they have laid/birthed, just simply feed them up.

There is no x-rays, injections, scores, specialised food etc.

and we've probably only discovered a gnats peckers worth of their genetics, discovering more and more all the time thus producing highly desired and new morphs that someone out there wants so badly they'll pay top dollar for 

Its not a bad thing, good on the breeder, they do what they love, breeding reptiles and make a hefty profit of it, no one would say no to that!

Its just a little more complicated with mammals, and very rarely will you make such profit unless your compromising the animals welfare.


----------



## Jimmyjayz (Mar 20, 2011)

There is a simple equation for all this


Supply and demand lol

Where people go wrong IMO is they breed the wrong animals, you will never make a profit breeding amel and Anery corn snakes, but you would from butters etc

Where there is a demand then supply can meet it, breeders are wanting the maximum for animals now, and shops struggle to buy them in for the right price making a bigger divide between pet shops and forums IMO.

Joe blogs I doubt could sell an amel corn for £20 on the forums as its the sort of corn people want as a first pet ( amel is just chosen at random ) but a shop will more than likely pay 25 plus vat for one from a main stream wholesaler. So would look to sell them for say £50 then be looked upon as dick Turpin ( is that the highway robber ?.) 

If joe blogs sold his entire clutch to a decent shop for £15 each he wouldn't get wasted time and would make a decent figure win win, but now shops are breeding there own stocks and competing with the forum price, making people loose more money, it amazes me show prices are quite often higher than shops now lol

There is money to be made from pence it's about how determined a person can be


----------



## geee (Aug 12, 2012)

x Sarah x said:


> I think there is profit to be made in reptiles, but not so much mammals.
> 
> Lets face it, reptiles in general lay more eggs than a mammals average litter, there food intake does not increase with being gravid, if anything it decreases.
> There is no after care when they have laid/birthed, just simply feed them up.
> ...


I was looking through this thread and these were my thoughts exactly! It must be hard to breed mammals for a considerable profit because of their care requirements.

Are there any mammals, exotic or otherwise, that the average person could make a noticeable profit out of breeding without compromising on their care? None spring to mind for me.. I've heard of people making a living out of reptile breeding (just regular people, not on a huge commercial scale!) but I can't imagine a mammal where this would be a possibility...


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

We breed my horses and i sell colts for £350 to £400 each. Take out the cost of vaccinations, passports, microchips, and gelding which is £250 on its own i still havent broke even. However we do it for the pleasure not to make money. Its one of those things that the more money you put into it the more money you can get back but can never be sure to break even especially atm


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Another way of breedibg for profit is the ones that overprice.

Yip i know its up to what the buyer what they want to pay.

But would anybody pay a fiver for a pint of milk.???

There are more rip offs than genuine sales...

Most advrrtising are looking for more than usuall...

Not an opinion...
Fact...

Im talkung primates as dont kniw what all else costs...

Then theres the brokers..

Pay normal.

Then sell on for a good profit....

Its not good for newbie breeders as it goes full circle...

Gripe over.lol


----------



## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

As long as the animals welfare is top priority i have no issue with people breeding for profit. When i start breeding i can safely say that i wont make a profit and thats fine by me, i love normals and albinos... other paint jobs just dont do it for me im afraid. I would rather bring new life into the world that will become loved pets rather than to be future breeding machines. Saying that if some ugly sod turned up in a batch of eggs or litter of babies that some nutter wanted to take off my hands for a tidy sum i wouldnt complain! :whistling2: So with this said i doubt im the only one who wouldnt/doesnt breed for profit. Its nice when it happens, but its not the be all and end all.


----------



## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

I laughed my head off the other week when someone accused me of being money grabbing for trying to sell my baby rabbits for a tenner each rather then take them to a rescue centre ???

For one i'm a breeder, so why would i have a litter then take it to a rescue?

and two, the same person who accused me actually bought a rabbit off me a month prior for 25 pounds and only paid me 20 then ignored my messages to ask where the extra fiver was, then i decided not to be a cow about it and not mention it again. Never said anything to anyone about it.

I laughed even more when i saw her 'downsizing' and asking 30-40 for her rabbits.

:roll:


----------



## Nell (May 3, 2011)

I breed my sugar gliders and my hedgehog, however despite the rather high price of these two critters I have never made a profit from it, due mainly to the costly nature of keeping these animals. Our heating bill is through the roof keeping everybody warm, feeding them can be expensive due to the high price of supplements and any money not used for this goes into the vet pot, as vets fees for exotics aren't cheap either.

Also it will be very dependent on species, with the animals I breed I am pretty sure only an unethical keeper could make any profit, by breeding their animals back to back, scrimping on vets fees and feeding a sub-par diet. APH should only be bred from every 6 months to ensure the well-being of the females, and sugar gliders should also be given breaks (though this is generally down to the individual glider as you should not separate bonded pairs or groups, if they are not resting between litters it is best to neuter the male).

I think perhaps breeding exotic mammals with a higher price may be a sustainable way of turning profit, however this is obviously a much larger outlay cost.

I am fine with individuals making profit from breeding *provided* that their animals well-being is the first consideration - well above profit margins - and that as a result ethical practices are employed.


----------

