# Safe materials?



## abruptus

Hi all

I'm new here so please forgive me if this has been tried/done/asked before, but is there a list of materials safe for reptiles kicking about anywhere?

I'm not talking about a list saying "glass, wood, metal" etc, I'm more thinking of specific brands of specific items that are known to be non-toxic and not harmful. I can see that in this board there is a recent post enquiring about powder paint.

I propose a sticky/index of materials that are safe, for people that like to do a bit of DIY.

My motivation is that I like to sculpt, and in the past created some cast resin severed hands out of an epoxy resin that was aquatics safe. They were fine in fishtanks, but I couldn't paint them as I didn't know what I could use. I even emailed most major aquarium ornament brands and a few paint manufacturers to either find out if they could tell me what they use, or point me in the direction of a safe material. No joy.

So, I will try to start this thread off, and please either let me know if it's been before, or your thoughts, or even any materials you think should be added to the list. I have a few ideas for some hides I'd like to do, but am unsure how to treat the material (it's wood, but I don't want it to rot, and I don't want it to be toxic!)


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## abruptus

*Please note*
The materials listed below are presumed to be safe, but use of the materials are entirely the responsibility of the user. This list serves only as a list of what others have found works, and appears to be safe, and the thread creator and contributors accept no responsibility for illness or fatalities resulting from the use of any materials listed below. 


*Glues*
Aquarium silicon sealant

*Paints*

*Varnishes and sealants*

*Sculpting material (clay, resin, putty etc)*
Alumilite 2-part epoxy resin
Safe for aquatic life if properly measured by weight and mixed correctly. Neutral off white colour. Very runny and so needs to be cast, but sets into a hard, heat proof non toxic material very quickly.

Milliput 2-part epoxy putty
Also safe for use in aquariums, it is even used in marine fish tanks and sets under water, so I presume it should be safe? Essentially a clay that is mixed together in equal parts, and sets rock solid. Useful for either creating fake rock work, or permanently bonding things such as vines and rocks together.



_If you know of any materials not listed above which are suitable for use in a vivarium or aquarium, please let us know and I will update the thread accordingly. Similarly if you feel a listed material is not safe, let us know and the material will either be removed or suitable warnings added._


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## Rencey

ok i am building a fake rock enclosure for my water dragon and have been doing alot of e-mailing about epoxy resins for sealing the whole thing and making it water and weather proof.

this was my reply from abl stevens.

The best coating resin we supply is the Clear Lay-up Epoxy system.
This resin has added UV stabilisers to maximise resistance from weathering.
It sets totally clear with a super high gloss and hardness if used and cured properly.
It has a Tg of around 75*C if post cured. Typical post curing schedule is gel at room temperature then 8 hours at 60*C.
The resin should be quite inert when fully cured so should not pose any problems with drinking water.


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## abruptus

Cheers for that.

I didn't realise this forum limits the time in which you can edit a post! I had intended on editing the first two as things were added, but I think now I will have to sort out a webpage that is linked to this thread which I will update!


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## Rencey

i have been e-mailing resin companies etc by the hundreds because of the intricate "mountain" with running river etc i have have been building for my water dragom lol .

i will keep posting here as i find out about other materials for peoples future projects : victory:


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## littleimp

The best & cheapest varnish/sealant is polyurethane varnish. This is what aquarium ornaments are coated in once painted. Sets rock solid too.

The spray dekor material is also polyurethane based hence why it's used in aquarium/reptile background production.


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## abruptus

Thanks guys.

I've put together the startings of the list. I had a little bit of a trawl through the forum looking for sealants people use. Let me know what you think of the following page:

www.zpyder.co.uk/repmat

Hopefully at various intervals as the list grows we'll be able to get a moderator to update the initial post and keep a copy of the list within the forum!


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## littleimp

The 2 x varnishes mentioned are polyurethane. Don't know if matt or glossy though.


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## abruptus

Aye, thanks for pointing that out. One of the things I want to do is create a list of brands as well as kinds of materials. I'm pretty fussy when it comes to anything that could potentially harm tank inhabitants, and so will always go with brands/materials that have been used before, rather than those that "should" be safe. I'm guessing other people are the same. What I'll do is rearrange the list a bit so things are sub-grouped, so for example all polyurethane varnishes are together. Then people can see that polyurethane varnishes are fine, and if they want to know more, they can see that people have used brand xxx and brand yyy etc!

The other thing I'm after is feedback and comments on each material. Obviously there are going to be lots of varnishes that can and have been used, but some might smell less than others, some might be less clear than others, some might take longer to set etc. So if I can provide any details alongside the items (like the alumilite and milliput) I will. Hopefully the list will grow and get to the point where it's certainly not comprehensive, but is large and detailed enough to provide anyone looking into making something with a list containing some of each type of material he or she might want to use.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the layout and the overall aims of this list? I'd like to hear them. I'm very new to keeping reptiles, I only have a gargoyle gecko, but know from the aquatics side of things that sourcing materials that you're happy to put in a tank can be pretty time consuming and nerve wracking!


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## leogeck3

PVA Glue is a good sealer and Varnish..... Safe for little kids that may decide to drink or eat so surely must be safe for animals?!


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## Rencey

trouble is you cant use pva to seal something in high humidity as it will break down in minutes (like a pva bait bag in water).
two makes for the epoxy resins mentioned above by me are abl stevens
and mas (but need to buy additives to chemically balance out the nasties)
both are around £35 for 1.25ltr so bout three coats of a nice sized background.: victory:


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## abruptus

Yeah, though I've read of people using PVA, I'm a bit loathe to add it to the list due to the water soluble side of things. The other problem with the "It's safe for kids so must be safe for animals" is also that the toxicity of chemicals varies between species and sizes. What we class as safe may still be toxic, but only slightly, and due to the size of people and the quantity ingested, not a problem....but considering the size of a gecko's stomach, there may be instances where it'd be akin to a child eating a couple of pots of PVA, and even though it's non-toxic, I can see that child being ill!


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## Rencey

:Na_Na_Na_Na: imagine the state of the nappy too :lol2: a kid passing two pots of pva not pretty:lol2: my God son was in a bad way after eating paper


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## lil05

coconut shells for hides


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## leogeck3

Yeah but im sure its alright for Leo Gecks ive just made a sculpture out of paper machee and PVA that im about to put in my viv


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## abruptus

I will add PVA glue with an appropriate warning. I was worried that even in dry/arid enclosures that if the animal is slightly "special" it might take to licking the walls etc...


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## Rencey

abruptus said:


> I will add PVA glue with an appropriate warning. I was worried that even in dry/arid enclosures that if the animal is slightly "special" it might take to licking the walls etc...


 
:Na_Na_Na_Na:are we on about sunshine bus style reptiles :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## cymag

Most Dendro keepers in the states use 100% silicone sealer (not Aquarium sealer), most of which contains a mould inhibitor. As long as it is 100% silicone it is OK. Check out the viv building threads on. 
Dendroboard.com

They have recently found out that silicone they thought was inhibitor free was not. Some of the guys here have have frogs in their vivs with 'normal' silicone for over 10 years:whistling2:

I am not saying use it, but, a little research can throw up some supprising alternatives!!

Front-Opening Showcase Vivarium How-To

Middle picture, click on it to enlarge it. It is window and door silicone!?!?


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## abruptus

Thanks. I'll update the silicone thread saying that others are available.

Does anyone have any feedback or comments on this list as a whole? Am I wasting my/our time, or do you guys and gals also think that this could be a valuable resource for first time DIY'ers and the more experienced alike?

Any criticism is welcome, as I do want to produce something that is ultimately of some use to hobbyists!


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## Rencey

i think this is great as i really could of done with a what is safe and who makes it list when i started my viv project as i wasted probably a week trying to find all the relevant info.:bash:


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## htd100

hey,

no, its good idea, im sure it will become a valuble resorce but I think ure better contacting zoo and wildlife park art departments. There are some amazing displays on the continent.
I dont think companys that make viv decor will be to happy in giving away there secrets onto the net openly. Id love to find out what those lightweight bowls are made of, but even still they might need some sort of kiln or somthing.

I always use blagdons pond seal for everthing that needs sealing and tend to stay away from the major hardware stores because the ronseal stuff still smells abit for at least 6 months. If you sorce a matt version of a simalar thing then i will be a happy bunny. although a light sprinkling of coloured sand help abit in the final coat.

Ive also noticed there are alot of diy stuff made out cement basesed products, the only danger ive read about is leaching of lime over time. but.Send a letter to the manufactures of habacrete but i wouldent expect a reply.

If you source the materal aquarium orniments are made and painted of then that would also be good.
good luck!


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## abruptus

This is just a casual bump for anyone that might have missed it late last year. The page is still in existence, and if anyone has anything to add to the list of materials that can be safely used in a viv/aquarium, please do let me know.

My reason for bumping is I actually had an enquiry via my website, so it made me realise that it is a valuable resource to non-forum users too!


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## Farske

Cheers, was looking for something like this.
Bookmarked.

Know anything about wood ?


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## abruptus

No, but if you find anything out I would appreciate it adding here or emailing to me so I can add it. I really wanted this to be a collective thing, where people share their knowledge and experience, rather than having to contact individual companies to find out more 

I suppose I know a little about wood, reminds me I should add a wood section. The mopani bogwood and others you can get in aquarium and reptile shops can be considered safe.

However if being used in a wet environment, or in water, mopani wood requires a series of boilings to help leach out the tannins, which acidify the water and make it go tea coloured (unless you want a brown acidic water!).

Similarly, some types of wood may float, but can be made to sink with a lengthy soaking process.

And finally, I learnt the hard way that other pet supply wood may not be suitable. By this I mean things like wooden huts for rodents. I put one in a tank with a rainbow crab and within a week I had an invasion of springtails, they were thriving off of the soft wet rotting wood and warm temperatures. I possibly could have prevented this again by boiling it for an extended period of time to kill off any eggs.

Also, many beetle species find coniferous wood toxic (something in the sap).

That's the sum of my knowledge on wood in tanks. Was there some specific project you had in mind? Technically you could seal any wood with the previously mentioned sealers and it'll be fine!


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## Morgan Freeman

This is a great idea for a thread.

I've just started using this paint earthBorn: environmentally friendly paint, natural organic paint, eggshell & varnish products. VOC free. for the fake rock background I'm making for my Leo. Obviously you can use other paints and let the fumes clear out and use a sealant but for those wishing to be extra careful this could be a good idea. Of course please remember sealant should still go on top even with this.


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## cbarnes1987

i was thinking of making a fake rock backround for my cornsnake viv for when he gets bigger, im not a tightwad but want something original instead of the auld exo terra! iv got about 8 months on my hands because he is a hatchling atm. i was considering using pva glue mixd with water and paper i.e papier mache, and then paint a light brown colour and seal with either epoxy resin or g4 pond seal. yay or nay?


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## UkReptiles

Basically am wanting to make a Naturalictic vivarium with a 3 sided fake background with plants and so forth but the reptiles that are going init need 80% humidity so am unsure on what materials i can use to make the fake backgrounds and to make them look realistic ive used aquirium silicon to seal the wood so the humidity should warp it hopefully lol.


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