# Water as "substrate"? Crested Gecko habitat



## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Hi There all Crested Gecko fans 

Before I buy a new tank for a crested gekko, I would like to ask for thoughts about my idea.
I was thinking of having water in a Exo-Terra and then have a filter-pump to clean water and pump it up on a sloping rock, so there's always running water for the crested gekko to drink. Of course this will lead to gecko-poops falling into the water, but my thoughts were to fill Duckweed in there for the natural look AND to drain nitrate in there + the filter will also clean. 
Then instead of buying new substrate or have ugly kitchen role or use hours of cleaning every month, then just change 50% of the water 1-2 times a week. I was also hoping this could help for the humidity in the tank.
I will of course have branches, vines and fake leaves for the gecko to climb, but draining dirty water is easier than remove and replace all those things often. 
What do you think of my idea? Will it work or should I stick to ugly kitchen role if I don't want to use a lot of time cleaning? 
*Will the cleaning be enough?* 
Will the Gekko drown? I know they got sticky feet and are good climbers, so it shouldn't drown.. 
I hope you have some good advice.

Morten.

Edit: I've researched some more, and found the term "bioactive substrate", which this actually is, just with water and live aquatic plants and not live terrestrial plants or small animals. But which method is better then? If the terrestrial bioactive substrate never needs cleaning, it's very nice, but do you have any experience with that?


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## twiggy1992 (May 5, 2010)

i have done this and it works great if you have a good filter and good water movement on there and a bit of cork bark floting in there


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for fast answer!  
Does it work so great, that you prefer this over normal substrate or kitchen role (would you recommend it?)? And do you think it is easier to keep clean then?


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## damien1010 (Feb 16, 2009)

i did this with tokays, even had a couple of gupies in there to, looked amazeing, had a rock stack in one corner to create a water fall/mini cliff which they could also use to drink from and use to get out if they did fall in, lso had alot ofthem exo terra water proof bendy vines in the water ,kinda like a mangrove root effect just in case they did fall in they had multiple escape routes, they never did fall in , but a gupie once went missing......naughty


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## twiggy1992 (May 5, 2010)

it is only realy good for looks and yh if u have a good filter in there it will realy clean its self


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks to both of you  Very useful information and now I feel mentally ready to (after 2-3 hours of intense researching) own a Crested Gecko 

Damien1010: Stacking rocks in a corner and having roots and guppies in the water is exactly my idea too ! Wish you could show a picture but sounds like you don't have that setup any more? 

Now I just need to decide what genders and how many geckoes before I can buy a tank. Feel free to come with suggestions. 
Thinking 1 female is easiest and thereby brings more joy. A pair or trio would just try to breed and they can't since there is water I guess... ?


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

You could go even more natural/bio-active if you have enough space, at which point you could grow a lot of your plants hydroponically - basically this means that the plants are grown without soil but take their nutrients from the water itself....I'm doing some early experiments on this for a non-reptile related customer but providing the cresties won't drown it could make for an interesting set up
Gill
Just Airplants


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

I've dabbled with water as a substrate before now for one of my monitors.

No reasons why not.


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Justairplants I'm thinking of a 60 cm tall exo-terra, so do you know any plant, that could grow 40-50 cm when planted in the water/gravel? 
I personally don't think they can drown in so shallow water, since there will be rocks and branches they can use for escape, so having a live plant growing hydroponically would be nice! 

thanks for answer Whosthedaddy. So far no negative answers


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

I think this is a good idea and it would look fantastic.

One thing that first entered my head was: What if you had a female crestie and it became gravid? It would obviously need somewhere to lay so you'd either have to include a permanent laying box (which would detract from the 'feature' of the water pool) or a way in which you could introduce a portable box if/when the time comes. You'd have to observe for signs of her being gravid very closely as if she doesn't have somewhere to lay she could end up egg bound.

Or, alternatively just get a male!


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for reply  
Ye I have thought of that too and I was thinking about some kind of "cliff" I could attach to the background wall and then fill with egg-laying substrate. But first I will start with just one female to get used to this new hobby for me  
But I've read that they can store sperm, so maybe a bad idea to get a female? Else I could just start with a less expensive juvenile, so there won't be any problems


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

How thick do you suggest branches to be? (mainly regarding artificial ones now..)
I saw those really smart Terra Vines but they come in 3 different sizes. 6 mm, 12 mm and 18 mm diameter...


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## geckojon (Jan 1, 2009)

I did something similar with my crested gecko set up a few years back. I had a wooden viv at the time so i put a deep plastic tupperware in the base with soil around the edge so you couldn't see it, put pebbles around the insides of the tub and put a pond fountain in that lead up to a couple of rocks that waterfalled back into the tub. Gecko loved it, she sat on the edge of the waterfall every evening and it looked great! 

Defo worth a try. :2thumb:


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

It doesn't matter whether they've stored sperm or not some females will lay infertile eggs and you'll need to be aware of when she's gravid (for supplementation) and when she's ready to lay (for the box etc).

The cliff would have to be strong as the amount of damp substrate you will need is going to be pretty heavy. Something like a box on stilts would maybe work? 

Re: branch thickness, I'd say almost as wide as the gecko. They can and will climb thinner but you're going to want a few thick branches (or ledges) where they can rest and not have to be constantly clinging on. The exo terra vines look good if you get various thicknesses and wrap them around each other.


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

geckojon I'm glad to hear that you have tried something similar and then sharing your positive experience  Thanks! I'm really eager to try now 

Oh infertile eggs.. Didn't know :O 
Well then I could place rocks around a plastic tub in the bottom so that an eventually female could lay her eggs there and it would still be pretty. Would be like a little patch of ground in all the water but isolated  

Hmm.. Horizontal resting places are hard to create when setting this kind of tank up. Guess the best way is to safely hang one of those smart plastic-like horizontal things between the vertical branches and then hide it with artificial plants. Or maybe you guys have a better idea? 

I'm still very pleased about how fast and helpful people are in here  Not like the Danish forums  Takes weeks to get good answers


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

MortRee said:


> Hmm.. Horizontal resting places are hard to create when setting this kind of tank up. Guess the best way is to safely hang one of those smart plastic-like horizontal things between the vertical branches and then hide it with artificial plants. Or maybe you guys have a better idea?


Magnetic ledges. There's a brand called magnaturals you can buy or you can make your own. There's a thread on here somewhere about how to do it. I've got three homemade ledges in with mine.


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## Gigantisaurus (Apr 5, 2010)

This sounds like a great idea...now before everyone shouts at once i know im probably being a bit thick here but what type of filter/pump are we talking about here? is it sucking the water up from bottom of viv,filtering it and spitting it out back down a rockface etc? if so can someone point me in the direction of a product...i had a look at the aquarium filters etc but they seem to be for making air bubbles...dunno im confused obviously lol


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## Gigantisaurus (Apr 5, 2010)

Hi mortree only thing that springs to mind as a consideration is if you are gonna be feeding live food im not so sure crickets and the like are good swimmers


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

MortRee said:


> Justairplants I'm thinking of a 60 cm tall exo-terra, so do you know any plant, that could grow 40-50 cm when planted in the water/gravel?
> I personally don't think they can drown in so shallow water, since there will be rocks and branches they can use for escape, so having a live plant growing hydroponically would be nice!
> 
> thanks for answer Whosthedaddy. So far no negative answers


I would think that the best ones to try first would be those that are commonly propagated in water such as Pothos or Tradescantia (Wandering Jew) - I've also read that Spider Plants are also quite successful when grown hydroponically. Rather than put them directly in the water, you should plant them into stones/gravel, which at the very least well help them keep upright.

HTH
Gill
Just Airplants


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Gigantisaurus I was thinking of a filter/pump like the one from Eheim with a ball, so I can shoot the water a little upwards, so it can land on the rocks through the fake plants that will hide the pump. I'm almost sure you can make this one not shoot bubbles.
And yes it will be sucking water up from bottom and will spit it out a bit higher.. but can't go that high since the pump-head needs to be close to the water, to drain it effectively and without noise. Atleast my pump in my aquarium needs that. It's a fluval plus 2.

I won't be feeding live food that much, but when I do, I'm almost sure that crickets won't suicide.. Would be an odd thing to do, but they might be unlucky and fall in there. Worst case is that I try it out and then waste 5 crickets that way and then won't be a problem. 

I was wondering if I could feed the gecko with guppies instead of crickets? Just 2 each week and then it will get the CGD the other days. 

justairplants I googled the three plants you mentioned, but they seem quite low and since the gecko want a high terrarium it would look better with taller plants I guess.. I have read a bit about Water Sprite and some say it can become 30-70 cm tall and it grows in water but then continues to grow when it grows out of the water.


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Just wanted to share this De Kammieshop
It's a very nice idea, much like mine but artificial and easier


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## devg55 (Jun 7, 2011)

i think as long as there was a lot of plants and bark etc to climb on i think it could work, the only thing i could thing would be an issue is keeping the humidity up would the filter heat the water to a steady temp? i dont know how they work but im sure theyd have to really. other thing is if the cresties decides to go glass walking and the glass is moist and slips and falls in, as long as it would drown i think its worth a shot. iv bathed cresties before so i know theyre pretty buoyant however they dont like water being deep at all.

im sure youve thought this through though. let us know how your experiment comes a long.


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

MortRee said:


> justairplants I googled the three plants you mentioned, but they seem quite low and since the gecko want a high terrarium it would look better with taller plants I guess.. I have read a bit about Water Sprite and some say it can become 30-70 cm tall and it grows in water but then continues to grow when it grows out of the water.


Ah, but the question was for candidates that might work growing hydroponically although Pothos is a large, leaved vigourous climber that is commonly used in Crestie vivs. 

You can grow quite a few "aquatic" plants as marginals - for example Java Fern - equally you will find quite a few terrestial plants being sold as aquatics but these rarely survive fully submerged.

When it comes to larger plants you might have to experiment as to which would successfully grow hydroponically. If you grow too many plants in the water you then get into having to provide nutrients as it is questionable whether there would be enough crestie poop in the water to sustain the plants. Then you could get into the tricky question of fertilising the plants....

Interesting subject though:2thumb:

Gill


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

so Gill if I plant a Pothos in the gravel in the water.. Would it then climb fake vines towards top of the tank? That could be cool  I don't know what requirements those Pothos have though but I guess they can live in room temp. with cresti poop water  but I actuall read that their roots will rot if constantly in water :S ? 

I will be making escapes for the crestie if it falls into the water and will try place a lot of vines and fake plants for it to climb beside the big rocks in the water. The water won't be that deep at all - it can't really be in an Exo Terra, maybe around 10-15cm? But still that is actually deep for a little gecko :O Extra escape routes is going to be needed then  
The filterpump won't heat the water and the water will stay room temp. Is there any problem with that? 
Regarding humidity I guess I will have to sprinkle every second day. Would that be fine?


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

I would like to follow up on this, but right now the money seems to be the problem. As a student I find it hard to get the money for all those fancy reptile stuff and finding items in the wild is just not my "style". Danish rocks and branches look boring 
So I'm trying to find secondhand items so it's going to be a while before I can post anything practical about my/our theories


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## Gigantisaurus (Apr 5, 2010)

MortRee said:


> Gigantisaurus I was thinking of a filter/pump like the one from Eheim with a ball, so I can shoot the water a little upwards, so it can land on the rocks through the fake plants that will hide the pump. I'm almost sure you can make this one not shoot bubbles.
> And yes it will be sucking water up from bottom and will spit it out a bit higher.. but can't go that high since the pump-head needs to be close to the water, to drain it effectively and without noise. Atleast my pump in my aquarium needs that. It's a fluval plus 2.
> 
> I won't be feeding live food that much, but when I do, I'm almost sure that crickets won't suicide.. Would be an odd thing to do, but they might be unlucky and fall in there. Worst case is that I try it out and then waste 5 crickets that way and then won't be a problem.
> ...


 
Hi again Mortree,thanks for the pump info,with regards the crickets i misunderstood your concept i thought you wer planning on filling the bottom of your viv with water so there would be effectively no land for the crickets to walk on but by the sounds of it you are only planning on some of the viv been submerged in water.Would love to see some pics if you get it set up.Good luck


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm not sure if you misunderstood it.. The layers will be like (bottom first):

Gravel
Water
Big stones and vines going up to top of aquarium
Duckweed and fake plants

And that's pretty much it for the lower part of the tank. This way there is no "land" for the tank but water and flat stone surface above the water . I plan on having a fake stone hollowed out, so there is a place for an eventual female to lay her eggs.


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

MortRee said:


> so Gill if I plant a Pothos in the gravel in the water.. Would it then climb fake vines towards top of the tank? That could be cool  I don't know what requirements those Pothos have though but I guess they can live in room temp. with cresti poop water
> 
> I will be making escapes for the crestie if it falls into the water and will try place a lot of vines and fake plants for it to climb beside the big rocks in the water. The water won't be that deep at all - it can't really be in an Exo Terra, maybe around 10-15cm? But still that is actually deep for a little gecko :O Extra escape routes is going to be needed then
> The filterpump won't heat the water and the water will stay room temp. Is there any problem with that?
> Regarding humidity I guess I will have to sprinkle every second day. Would that be fine?


In theory, if there is sufficient nutrients in the water, the Pothos should grow in the same way as it would if it was in compost. So yep, it will spread and climb all over the place. You will need to cover the roots with pebbles/gravel to support the plant so I would suggest making a "river bank" with the pebbles, which will also make a sort of beach that the crestie could use to climb out if it fell in the water.

I can't make any guarentees that it will work though but Pothos is a good candidate for trying as I've had success growing cuttings in water, the main variable being the nutrient level in the water. But definitely worth a try....

If the water is at room temperature and the viv at a temp and humidity the plant should also be happy as they have similar requirements to the crestie anyway. 

Gill


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

It has potential to work well, and the plants mentioned by Gll are quick growers and will gover the sides well. Some broms attached to branches higher up in the tank will work well. 

I have seen this done before but the issue that was found was that a land area was needed of some description. This was done bu using a large root/tree stump looking things. This ment there were branches in the water that looked like swamp roots, and the main body of the branch formed a land area where the crestie could rest and plants could be planted. 

Bioactive substrates work in a simular way but with soil. A selection of mice-organisism and inverts feed on the organic material (poo) basically if you do it right you dont have to do any cleaning at all. 

Jay


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

Just thought of something else that would work well instead of sacrificial guppies - how about Cherry Shrimps? They'd eat away on any algae, breed so hopefully become self sustaining and also add into the nutrient mix soup for the plant.
gill


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Hagen Exo Terra Turtle Bank would actually work PERFFECT for a resting place higher up in the tank, but I highly doubt it can keep hanging there when a gecko climbs it.. but it's just the right color and size and all  

Ye Gill I actually only have Guppy and Cherry Shrimps in my aquarium right now, so was planning to move them to this tank too  Thanks for ideas again!  Guess I could try the idea with the Pothos, but generally I hate living plants!! or they hate me..  

Spikebrit thanks for input although I think a root like system that forms a land is going to be expensive unless I'm really lucky to find something in the wild  But would work too. 

My main problem right now is a flat resting place higher in the tank, so they can rest while not close to water and while in "the trees"


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## Fionab (Mar 28, 2010)

theres an article in next months PRK about something similar i think, nice idea in theory would take a fair bit of planning to get it right and more importantly safe for the gecko.


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## justairplants (Mar 2, 2010)

MortRee said:


> Ye Gill I actually only have Guppy and Cherry Shrimps in my aquarium right now, so was planning to move them to this tank too  Thanks for ideas again!  Guess I could try the idea with the Pothos, but generally I hate living plants!! or they hate me..
> 
> Spikebrit thanks for input although I think a root like system that forms a land is going to be expensive unless I'm really lucky to find something in the wild  But would work too.
> 
> My main problem right now is a flat resting place higher in the tank, so they can rest while not close to water and while in "the trees"


Actually plants are a lot easier than most think and species such as Pothos are pretty forgiving.....if you can keep cresties, guppies and cherry shrimp, plants like Pothos should be a walk in the park :lol2:

Actually got two nice bits of New Zealand driftwood root knocking around for £15 and £20 each bit.....

Gill


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

MortRee said:


> Hagen Exo Terra Turtle Bank would actually work PERFFECT for a resting place higher up in the tank, but I highly doubt it can keep hanging there when a gecko climbs it.. but it's just the right color and size and all
> 
> Ye Gill I actually only have Guppy and Cherry Shrimps in my aquarium right now, so was planning to move them to this tank too  Thanks for ideas again!  Guess I could try the idea with the Pothos, but generally I hate living plants!! or they hate me..
> 
> ...


its not to expensive, you can eitehr fine some knocking around (but it may rot) what you want is drift wood or something simular, you can often pick bits up for a 10-20 quid, which isnt to bad and would form an ace centre pieces. 

personally higher up i would use loads of branches to replicate trees along with some cork bark tubes. For ledges i would use sponmge mushrooms and attach these to the sides. 

jay


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## DaveM (Oct 18, 2006)

What about broad leaf Echinodorus species, they grow submerged but are also just as happy being semi aquatic and the leaves can be quite rigid when growing in air


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Forgiving? My aquatic plants are not.. I even tried ferts, add more or take away fish and change gravel and such things.. They just want to die!!  so I'm wondering if I maybe just should stick with the safe way? Duckweed just can't die! :O So it will drain nutrients while the fake plants will last forever thereby saving me money.. 

Jay can you explain a bit more about those sponge mushrooms? How to attach them (I think a silicone spot is ugly looking from the outside)? How to eventually care for them or where to buy or whatever comes to your mind regarding this suggestion for cliffs  It's really the only real problem I see in this "project". 

Thansk for suggestion DaveM. I will go research plants some more right away 
Btw that picture with the man and the big mouth really freaks me out when writing.. Totally lost m concentration :O Gonna go to bed now with nightmare haha


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Sponge mushrooms are a dried tropical mushroom. I've always got mine from Pollywog - Captive Bred Amphibians & Herpetological Supplies. I just use a blob of silcone to hold them in place (its on the side or back so who see's it) or building them into my background withn i use gurilla glue and soil. 

jay


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Hmm guess those are hard to find in stores in Denmark.. Never seen them but would be nice to glue on an Exo Terra background.. you think you can do that with silicone? Or would the silicone be too visible? Do you think you could remove them again if you want to rework the terra?


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## MortRee (Jan 24, 2012)

Can anyone tell me if a Magnatural Large Medium Worm Feeder (google it ) would be enough as an egg-laying place if I get a female? I will fill the cup with spagnum peat moss or something like that.. I will just remove eggs like 1-2 times a week, so there will be room enough..
Does this sound as an ok idea? Then they can both rest AND lay egg in a high place in the terrarium


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