# A few P. irminia breeding questions



## johnny_jb (Jun 15, 2006)

Hello all!

I'm new to breeding spiders/tarantulas but I'm not new to keeping them or breeding other kinds of invertebrates. I've done a fair amount of research and I'm fairly confident I'll be able to breed these guys successfully. But as you all know; _doing _is very different to _reading._ So I thought I'd ask you some questions to further help myself:



What is the ideal time to wait after the female molts to introduce the male? I've heard typically a month is ideal, however I've also heard of others introducing the male successfully after only two weeks... The reason why I ask is that I have a mature adult male, and I want them to mate ASAP because I'm not entirely sure how long he'll last...
Which brings me to my next question... How long do male _P. irminia_ typically live after their final molt? In my experience with tarantulas and spiders it can vary considerably between differing species or 'types' of tarantula; some living only a couple of months vs some living up to a year.
What is the typical egg sack size for _P. irminia_? I've read lots of accounts of people having successful egg sacks, and I've seen a fair amount of videos of people 'pulling' an egg sack etc, but never have I heard someone give a definitive number on how many eggs they have...
What is the mortality rate for _P. irminia _slings? Typically I breed things like Mantids and I know, for example, common species of mantidae such as _T. sinensis _typically have a very high mortality rate and a breeder hatching a large ootheca of 200+ nymphs can expect 100 or more to die fairly quickly. So basically I'm wondering if _P. irminia _slings are hardy?
I know ideally I should have started with a simpler, less aggressive/fast species, and every 'care sheet' or 'hot to guide' on breeding _P. irminia _do stress that they're not for beginners; particularly when you consider their venom potency. But I'm very experienced in keeping and breeding other difficult and often fragile invertebrates such as _I. diabolica _or _H. coronatus. _Plus... Aren't _P. irminia _just awesome?! The first time I saw a picture of one, I knew I had to get one! Haha. 

Thanks for reading! And thank you for your help!

Cheers,
Jonathan.


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

> What is the ideal time to wait after the female molts to introduce the male? I've heard typically a month is ideal, however I've also heard of others introducing the male successfully after only two weeks... The reason why I ask is that I have a mature adult male, and I want them to mate ASAP because I'm not entirely sure how long he'll last...


It can take the female upto a week or so to fully harden after the moult plus you will need to feed her up so she will be less inclined to eat the male. 
I always wait at least a month but never more than 3 months




> How long do male _P. irminia_ typically live after their final molt?


How long is a piece of string ? A good average at a guessimate would be 6-8 months, maybe more if he has been kept cool. 




> What is the typical egg sack size for _P. irminia_?


Again, how long is a piece of string ?
There are many variables to take into account but again as a guessimate . . 100 to 150



> What is the mortality rate for _P. irminia _slings ?


There will be a few losses due to physical defects and husbandry errors but personally, I would expect an extreme maximum of 10% losses.
All slings can be delicate for the first few weeks. No matter how much a person reads up, there comes a point where the hobbyists experience counts for a lot and this is that time.


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## johnny_jb (Jun 15, 2006)

Ahhh, thank you very much Peter. 

I'm glad to hear the male lives 6-8 months by your guestimmate. As he's only 8ish weeks since maturing (at least.. that's going by what the seller said - but he has a lot of positive feedback on this site so I believe him). 

My female is clearly nearing molt. She's refusing food (and normally she'll eat everything and anything), very lethargic, and can't grip to the glass sides. So I've upped the humidity to aid her when she does molt.
I've also bought a 45x45x45cm terrarium for her to live in after she molts. My plan is:


A.) After the female molts I'll wait 2 weeks before doing anything other than give her water... Although I will occasionally try giving her food via tweezers to see if she's hungry (after at least a week has past).


B.) Move her in to her new home and give her about 2-3 weeks to properly settle in... That way I can properly make sure the heating and humidity is optimum.


C.) After those 2-3 weeks... induce the male and female to a binge of fantastic gluttony for a week, and then introduce them to each other (this is starting to sound like some kind of ancient Greek ritual... haha).
D.) Watch over them like a hawk! I know this can take an hour+ so I'll be very patient and have everything to hand to ensure I can remove the male safely.


E.) After the egg sack is laid, wait a few weeks so she can look after them herself and then I'll 'pull' the egg sack and incubate them in a set-up which I saw tarantulaguy1976 use.
F.) after they've molted to 2nd instar I'll start putting them in their own enclosures and then treat them like individual tarantulas.
What do you think? 


Cheers,
Jonathan.

*P/S
*I do have an awful habit of over thinking... So if I am, do tell me! 
This is me basing the _P. irminia _on "awkward" species of mantis and other invertebrates I've had experience with. For example the aforementioned orchid or Idolomantis; I found my over-the-top attention to detail was very beneficial as such species are very 'iffy' to environmental variables such as humidity - emphasis on the orchid mantis as it's well known for having severe and often catastrophic issues when molting if their humidity levels aren't properly met.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

_P. irminia _may be listed as a spider not for beginners due to to speed and attitude problems, but for actual keeping and breeding they're easily a beginner species.

My first spider was an irminia sling, which I now know was "1st instar", that is to say, the moult after N2, the smallest a spiderling can be. She's now a huge female and sharing her web with an uncounted number of tiny versions of herself  They very tough, even as slings, so I'd really not expect much of a die-off.

I would wait till she moults, don't bother trying to tong feed, it won't help it'll just annoy her. Wait a week or two after until she's hardened up and eating again, and just start throwing food in there. If she's not interested she'll just ignore it and web up again, if she's hungry then she'll eat. Once she starts eating, she'll of course really *start eating*.

Move her to her new home, maybe dampen the substrate behind the bark to encourage her to web up a bit. I'd not worry about giving her "2-3 weeks to settle in" before feeding because she'll eat anyway and access to food may speed up her settling in. Make sure she's got a water bowl, but don't bother misting much, and let the substrate dry out a bit. Keep feeding her, I'd say "until she's full" but I don't think psalmos really understand the concept, so until her abdomen is like twice the size of her prosoma or whatever. The binge of fantastic gluttony for a week sounds less effective than feeding her constantly from once she'll start eating. You want her sated, not freshly fed but still in a hunting mood. Tarantulas are slow eaters, just keep feeding her.

Once she's slowed down on the eating you can add the male. He should be fed, but it's not that important, in fact it can be better for him to be a bit skinny and her a bit fat (slows her down and makes him more agile).

The introduction, I was mad nervous but these things are pretty well behaved. The females are known for playing nice with the males (even sharing their web with them for several weeks in some cases). When I mated mine, he managed to wander into her retreat without realising (cos she hadn't webbed it much), bump into her, send both of them running in panic, and then do the same again ten minutes later. After which he tried to bugger off but she came out, started drumming and followed him about the big storage tub her tub was in for mating until she managed to find him. Mating was straightforward once they found a decent position, and then when done she just wandered back into her web.

Alternatively, get a big storage box, like a 60L thingy, put both tubs in that and open them/remove the lids, and then just leave them to it. My previous attempt with irminias was unsuccessful, but the female and male were both just ambling about that tub for a week and no one ate anyone.

Should you get a successful mating, keep feeding her and keep her dry, maybe bump up the temperatures a bit (couple of degrees). After a month or so, absolutely soak the substrate, like just shy of standing water, and drop the temps down again for a week or two, then maybe back to the normal temps. Dunno how important the temperature thing is, it's kinda how Amazonian seasons go though. There's a temperature rise before the rainy season, and then a drop after it starts, and then it warms up a bit again. Then it's pretty much a matter of feeding her if she's still hungry, and waiting. Once she seals her web just leave her to it.

As for the egg sac, you can pull it (30 days seems to be the usual, pull it too early and you've got a load of extra work on your hands, earlier still and it'll probably just die), or you could just leave it with the mother. Psalmos are reputed to be good mothers, and mine did a good job looking after the sac, opening it when it was time, keeping babies safe. You can set up your incubator with thermostats and the suchlike, or you can leave it with a preprogrammed biological machine who will move it about to keep it at optimum temperatures and humidity.

It takes longer but in some ways it was way easier than mantids, and though I've only bred _Hierodula parviceps_ and _P. wahlbergii_.

From my first successful breeding, which was _P. irminia

_


> 26/12/13 : Female moulted (approximate date as I was away)
> 23/01/14 : Female mated, probable good insertion
> 12/02/14 : Re-mated to same male, definite insertions
> 25/03/14 : Sac laid
> ...


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...08-psalmopoeus-irminia-breeding-report-i.html

_Wow that's one hell of a wall of text_


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