# Things don't always go the way you want...



## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

I've just had another clutch of cryptelytrops albolabris from the "funny" specimen I have. The one I bought a few years ago as a female and grown on a large scale and developed a white blue stripe down the length of her body has given birth. 
17 born dead, 5 alive and 4 slugs, this is the first time for her.
The babies that are alive are incredibly doing well considering 2 have no eyes whatsoever, this will prove to be an interesting study to see how they live off heat pits alone and taste.

Her before 









And one of the babies 









Has anybody heard of female cryptelytrops albolabris forming a white/blue stripe after 4 years of age and giving birth and then slowly disappearing?
Because I'm baffled.
Even when I probed her years ago she was a definite female, then came the stripe and the continuous growing to over 3 ft, and I really don't think the 12" male did the job. All I can say is, what a weird thing and easily got the gender wrong in the last year and a half.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

It'd be really interesting to see the feeding responses of eyed compared to eyeless. Personally I think comparing them will show vision to be insignificant compared to smell and heat reception, but it'd be nice to have some conclusive data. Hope the study goes well.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Mind you if its one sense is missing the problem you have is not knowing if the heat pits are or are not working etc


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## storm22 (Jan 11, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Mind you if its one sense is missing the problem you have is not knowing if the heat pits are or are not working etc


could it not also open up the possibilities of those other senses being heightened? as in humans?

the snake has a very weird beauty to it, obviously its sad that it hasnt developed properly, but a stunning animal none the less


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## gone fishin (Oct 14, 2009)

ive never seen anything like that, it looks almost photoshoped. hope the survivors do well!


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

leecb0 said:


> Mind you if its one sense is missing the problem you have is not knowing if the heat pits are or are not working etc


This is what i was thinking, imo it will probably die without being able to see but if its heat pits are working it might still be able to locate prey, especially in captivity. In the wild i dont think it would stand a chance though : victory:


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## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

It's a bit weird too, I don't know if it's inhumane to let it live like this either. Life sure throws a lot of weird things at you from time to time.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

storm22 said:


> could it not also open up the possibilities of those other senses being heightened? as in humans?
> 
> the snake has a very weird beauty to it, obviously its sad that it hasnt developed properly, but a stunning animal none the less


Difference is the other senses are proberbly as good as it gets and a snake does not rely on sight as much as we do, its pretty hard to improve perfection.

As for the OP if you are going to keep them and they feed and respond normally i personally dont think its cruel to keep them alive. Good luck mate


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

As above, I don't think it would be inhumane if the other sences are good and it has no problem locating prey.

That will be a skitty snake you have though, good luck :2thumb:


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## storm22 (Jan 11, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Difference is the other senses are proberbly as good as it gets and a snake does not rely on sight as much as we do, its pretty hard to improve perfection.
> 
> As for the OP if you are going to keep them and they feed and respond normally i personally dont think its cruel to keep them alive. Good luck mate



yeah it was late last night and maybe wasn't thinking quite as clearly as i should have been, especially to venture into this section lol

OP i really do wish you luck on this beautiful animal, if it is coping well with life without eyes it would be lovely to see how it progresses down the line


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

No its perfectly normal Storm to think that its other senses would br hightend as our only point of reference is our own. The snake in Question is nocternal so in the wild we assume they use the heat pits more than the eyes for locating its prey, ambushing them and holding on etc mine are bonkers at night these will be even more fun...lol


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Hope you keep posting how they're all getting on, gonna be interesting to hear about! 

Good luck with them : victory:


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## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, I did not have luck with the eyeless ones. 

I had them co housed...

The one with one eye had eaten the one with no eyes and both died.


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

Piraya1 said:


> Well, I did not have luck with the eyeless ones.
> 
> I had them co housed...
> 
> The one with one eye had eaten the one with no eyes and both died.


Oops. That's a shame. Bet you're gutted.


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## snakeskinshoes (Apr 6, 2010)

Piraya1 said:


> Well, I did not have luck with the eyeless ones.
> 
> I had them co housed...
> 
> The one with one eye had eaten the one with no eyes and both died.


 
Hi.. 2 questions
First is it only venemous snakes that are cannibalistic and secondly did the snake with one eye die due to injestic the snake with no eyes venom?

May seem like silly questions but i know nothing of DWA thanks Matt

P.S Sorry to hear of your loss it would of made great research.


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## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

No I've even seen corn snakes eat each other. And secondly, It would have possibly been due to digestive tract damage, punctured organs possibly. 
They did not get to eat by themselves on pinky parts, their behavior was very flighty and consistent when disturbed.


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## snakeskinshoes (Apr 6, 2010)

Piraya1 said:


> No I've even seen corn snakes eat each other. And secondly, It would have possibly been due to digestive tract damage, punctured organs possibly.
> They did not get to eat by themselves on pinky parts, their behavior was very flighty and consistent when disturbed.


punctured due to the fangs? Has it ever being known that a snake has died due to digesting another snakes venom?


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

snakeskinshoes said:


> Hi.. 2 questions
> First is it only venemous snakes that are cannibalistic and secondly did the snake with one eye die due to injestic the snake with no eyes venom?
> 
> May seem like silly questions but i know nothing of DWA thanks Matt
> ...





Piraya1 said:


> No I've even seen corn snakes eat each other. And secondly, It would have possibly been due to digestive tract damage, punctured organs possibly.
> They did not get to eat by themselves on pinky parts, their behavior was very flighty and consistent when disturbed.


 
Kingsnakes are very very enthusiastic cannibals too. Ive heard of some people feeding a dead snake to a Kingsnake. In the wild a Kingsnake will prey on other snakes too.


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## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

snakeskinshoes said:


> punctured due to the fangs? Has it ever being known that a snake has died due to digesting another snakes venom?


It's possible, but if the fang were to puncture a vital organ like lungs or heart, regardless of venom a lot of damage can be done.


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## JohnR (Jan 1, 2010)

terciopelo_dave said:


> It'd be really interesting to see the feeding responses of eyed compared to eyeless. Personally I think comparing them will show vision to be insignificant compared to smell and heat reception, but it'd be nice to have some conclusive data. Hope the study goes well.


There has been a study done on rattlesnakes were they covered the heat pits and allowed them to hunt with their eyes, and vice versa. Those with pits had a success rate equivelant to a unabstructed rattlesnake.

In regards to digesting venom, venom is made up of enzymes and protiens etc and these are simply broken down and digested.

John


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## snakeskinshoes (Apr 6, 2010)

so ultimatly you're saying a human could digest venom and it have no ill effect? 
Lol not that im trying to slip my girlfriend anything :whistling2:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

snakeskinshoes said:


> punctured due to the fangs? Has it ever being known that a snake has died due to digesting another snakes venom?


doubt it, aren't animals usually resistant to their own venom? I'd drink venom if someone paid me, I'm young, hopefully no internal lacerations, might turn out fine. Though I think I'd prefer it in a piece of ravioli, so I could swallow it whole and not have the venom exposes until it was in my stomach, bwahaha, foolish proteins, you're bonds shall be broken and you shall be made harmless..


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## snakeskinshoes (Apr 6, 2010)

Strange.. Learn something new everyday. 
A. Venom is potentially harmless when digested
B. Never go to joeyboys for dinner. :2thumb:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

snakeskinshoes said:


> Strange.. Learn something new everyday.
> A. Venom is potentially harmless when digested
> B. Never go to joeyboys for dinner. :2thumb:


A.yep, if a creature is poisonous it means consuming it will harm you. Venomous means when it's injected into the bloodstream, obviously the venom could enter my bloodstream, I imagine if I drink a solution of it some might be transferred through the inside of my mouth to my blood? Not sure really...suppose not or you'd get stuff like citric acid directly into your blood when you drank orange juice. When it's down in your stomach, the acid will break down it's structure. I'm not sure why poisons are able to harm you when you've digested them...but I was sure you could break up the protein structure of venom, maybe poisons are more likely to have a non-biological base to them, so the acid isn't strong enough to break them up...


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## stevemartin (Nov 16, 2007)

joeyboy said:


> I imagine if I drink a solution of it some might be transferred through the inside of my mouth to my blood?
> Many proteins are far too large to traverse either cells, or the junctions between cells, and those which can do it are facilitated by transporter proteins specific to their substrate, it is HIGHLY unlikely that any human has evolved a transporter to carry or facilitate the passage of a venom protein across a cell layer, a kinda pointless exercise in self-destruction!!
> Not sure really...suppose not or you'd get stuff like citric acid directly into your blood when you drank orange juice.
> As above
> ...


My thoughts in red, for what they're worth, an extremely interesting discussion!!

Steve


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