# How are spider royals bred?



## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Probably a silly question but im really not clued up on royal morphs and cant seem to find the answer on google :blush:


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

The Spider morph is a base gene.

Its a dominant gene and when you breed a spider royal to another royal the gene can be passed on.

If a spider is breed to a normal there would be a 50% change per egg for spiders.


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Thaks for the fast reply!

So there is no way of breeding your own spiders unless you have a spider to start with?


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Thats right.

Because its a dominant gene if the snake carries the gene then it will look like a spider royal, so the only way to breed one is to have a spider, or to find one in the wild and then breed that


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh i see! Sorry didn't realise spiders occured in the wild! that explains the confusion haha

Thankyou


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

As far as I know every single royal base morph started with WC animals.


This  is a cool page to learn the basics


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Excellent, thankyou!  Finally a website that can explain things in simple terms so i can actually understand it! haha


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

goodwin1234 said:


> Excellent, thankyou!  Finally a website that can explain things in simple terms so i can actually understand it! haha


Pleasure 

This is another fantastic site for checking morphs


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

The genetic wizard on that last link you gave me is awesome! The only problem now is i will probably just use the calculator rather than actually learn to work it out myself lol

Thanks again :2thumb:


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

goodwin1234 said:


> the genetic wizard on that last link you gave me is awesome! The only problem now is i will probably just use the calculator rather than actually learn to work it out myself lol
> 
> thanks again :2thumb:



nps :d


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## cornboy (Oct 12, 2009)

So you get a bumble bee royal in the wild?


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## Mik3F (Feb 6, 2010)

A bumblebee is made by breeding a spider with a pastel. It's a 25% chance per egg


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Bumble bee is not a base morph, its a combination or designer morph. A bumble bee is a snake that has both the Pastel gene and the spider gene (both pastel and spider being base morphs).


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

So bumblebees can be found in the wild?


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## Mik3F (Feb 6, 2010)

I highly doubt it

Bumblebees are not a base morph, you need 2 different morphs to produce one


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Oh i agree its highly unlikely but if a spider and a pastel were to meet in the wild which are both base morphs then its definately possible?


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## Mik3F (Feb 6, 2010)

Possible


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Mik3F said:


> Possible


 
In the same way that is possible I might win the lottery this week.

I am not sure but I doubt any combination morph has ever been WC.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

goodwin1234 said:


> Oh i agree its highly unlikely but if a spider and a pastel were to meet in the wild which are both base morphs then its definately possible?


Yes, it's possible IF there were any Spiders in the wild. I had been under the impression that only one wild-caught male has ever been found, and that's the founding animal for every Spider in the world.


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Yes, it's possible IF there were any Spiders in the wild. I had been under the impression that only one wild-caught male has ever been found, and that's the founding animal for every Spider in the world.


Wow so every spider in captivity in the world is related! Well im glad one was found thats all i can say 

So presumably nobody knows how the spider pattern in that 1 specimen found in the wild was made?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

goodwin1234 said:


> Wow so every spider in captivity in the world is related! Well im glad one was found thats all i can say


I'm not convinced it was a good thing to have found it - if the original animal had been an adult when caught maybe, because he'd have proven the neurological defect is not detrimental in the wild, but apparently he was a baby when he was found.



> So presumably nobody knows how the spider pattern in that 1 specimen found in the wild was made?


It's a "mutation" - somewhere in the genetic code, there's a "typo" - this sort of thing happens more often than you'd think, although you don't always get such dramatic effects. 

Instead of the correct code for being a normal royal python - imagine it like "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" - a Spider has the wrong code - "The guick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog". 

And that misspelling in the code means that the animal has significant pattern and colour changes, as well as a neurological or balance defect (it's been suggested, but not confirmed, that there is a missing area inside the brain - but until someone dissects enough normals AND enough spiders to be sure, that's not a for-definite).


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## Mik3F (Feb 6, 2010)

excession said:


> In the same way that is possible I might win the lottery this week.
> 
> I am not sure but I doubt any combination morph has ever been WC.


You have no chance mate, I am going to win it :lol2:

Thats how possible it is


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> I'm not convinced it was a good thing to have found it - if the original animal had been an adult when caught maybe, because he'd have proven the neurological defect is not detrimental in the wild, but apparently he was a baby when he was found.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very informative post thankyou!


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

"It's a "mutation" - somewhere in the genetic code, there's a "typo" - this sort of thing happens more often than you'd think, although you don't always get such dramatic effects."

Isn't that the same case with any morph though? Whats the difference between a morph and a mutation?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

goodwin1234 said:


> Isn't that the same case with any morph though? Whats the difference between a morph and a mutation?


Morphs are as a result of mutations - although some of the "selectively bred" things in corns are *called* morphs - like Okeetee or Candycane - when they're not simple single mutations, they're the collective effect of multiple small mutations - and combinations of mutations are also called "morphs".


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## goodwin1234 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm slowly starting to get my head round all this thanks to this thread  Thanks again :2thumb:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

A morph is what you see (= phenotype). Normal is a morph. So is the effect of a combination of mutant genes or of selectively breeding.

As Ssthisto wrote, a mutation is a change in the genetic code from that of the normal gene (= genotype).

Herpers often use "morph" and "gene" as if they were the same thing. They are not.

By the way, a responder to this thread in the genetics forum wrote that normal is the only base morph. He is correct because normal is the starting point and everything else is a change from normal.


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## MrsRaven (Apr 15, 2008)

I found that last link interesting too, I am getting to grips with genetics but get a bit confused with double-hets.


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