# Madratters first show - Manchester - SUNDAY 28 June



## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Come along to the first madratters show.

Hall opens -11am
Judging starts- 12 noon

Judge- Cynthia Spooner (of Rodent rescue manchester).

Venue- Radcliffe Boys club
Withins Ave
Radcliffe
Manchester
M26 2XB

Fun day with pet only classes to a brand new schedule.

Enquiries and entries to [email protected] 

Deadline for entries is 9pm Tuesday 23rd June.

There will also be a 'phone number for entries posted nearer the time.


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi there, probably a silly question but is it for rats only or would I be able to enter a fancy mouse? Never been to a rodent show before :blush:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Am sorry, but it's rats only  If you want to get into showing mice, you need to join the NMC, but I don't think there are any pet classes at mouse shows... Ever. And you must start off with mice from other show breeders, because show mice are VERY different from your average pet mouse


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Am sorry, but it's rats only  If you want to get into showing mice, you need to join the NMC, but I don't think there are any pet classes at mouse shows... Ever. And you must start off with mice from other show breeders, because show mice are VERY different from your average pet mouse


Ok, thanks for the advice, really appreciate it, totally new at showing and just thought that it's something I'd like to try. I might still take a trip there to have a look at the ratties


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

This should be a nice day, since it's just pets  I'll be having a craft stall and probably showing a couple ratlets


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> This should be a nice day, since it's just pets  I'll be having a craft stall and probably showing a couple ratlets


 
Oooooo might turn up


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Totally should, Mark  If you are taking the train, maybe I can sweet talk my hubby to pick ya up


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Totally should, Mark  If you are taking the train, maybe I can sweet talk my hubby to pick ya up


 
That would be great!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Well, the easiest train station is Kearsley, but you probably will have to go to Bolton (Kearsley is pretty small and not many trains stop there).


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

I will be there although may have to race off to Blackpool dog show for part of the day too


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Lets hope the SDAV outbreak has again calmed down.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

If i get a train it would be 1-3 changes depending of the time or i could get a bus from leeds to Manchester for £6 there and back :S


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

if you get to Manchester just jump on the Metrolink to Radcliffe and then walk the mile up Bury Road to the Boys Club.


i haven't been there for about 15 years!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*points up* yeah, that too


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

or if you get the train to Bolton, get the 524 / 522 / 520 (unless they've changed the routes), get off at The Old Cross and just walk up the left hand side of the pub to the top of the road, cross over and there you are.


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## MissG (Aug 1, 2007)

Damn! I'm going watching Take That on this day, will be out from 12 noon so can't make it. I would have loved to though, been looking for something in Manchester to do with Ratties for a while.

Any idea if there will be anymore?


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I imagine there will be more... This is the first, so probably depending how attendance is


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## rat.bag (Apr 24, 2009)

This seems interesting. Will come down and check it out, ive always wondered what goes on at these shows.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

This one will be a bit different from other rat shows around the country due to the fact there are no varieties classes  Just pets


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> This should be a nice day, since it's just pets  I'll be having a craft stall and probably showing a couple ratlets


unfortuanlty its to far for me but i would love to know what kind of crafts you will have on your table :O) :2thumb:


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## rat.bag (Apr 24, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> This one will be a bit different from other rat shows around the country due to the fact there are no varieties classes  Just pets


Thats what interested me :2thumb:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Me too *lol*


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## MissG (Aug 1, 2007)

Aaaaw I'm so gutted I can't attend. Please everyone else do, so we can have some more!
I have been wanting to show my girls off, as they are so bloody gorgeous! But not show standard so this would be perfect. Damn you Take That.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> unfortuanlty its to far for me but i would love to know what kind of crafts you will have on your table :O) :2thumb:


:2thumb::whistling2:


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Is this show still going ahead?
what with the latest batch of SDAV going round....no amount of `playing it down` and saying `oh its a myco virus` has convinced many people its a good idea to still have a show in the midst of an outbreak?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

seeing as the thread is only 3 days old i'm guessing it will be.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> :2thumb::whistling2:


Ooops! Missed that :blush: I'll be doing loadsa cards (got most of them finished now), hopefully candles, home made ratty treats, ratty choccies for people, might do some more peopley treats, little ratty treat lanterns to hang in the cage, etc etc etc :2thumb:

Yes, this show is going ahead. I don't know any details of outbreaks, since I rarely go to shows.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

do you make ratty treats to post out to the people who cant get to shows :whistling2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I can, indeed  Will get up pics of my last ratty stall for ya 

I have just been informed that this show will be postponed due to the outbreak of the virus. Hopefully it'll be held on July 26th.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Dawn, clear out your inbox


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Minerva said:


> Is this show still going ahead?
> what with the latest batch of SDAV going round....no amount of `playing it down` and saying `oh its a myco virus` has convinced many people its a good idea to still have a show in the midst of an outbreak?



I thought the SDAV was no longer a threat as other shows had been cancelled to stop the spread weeks ago, or is it still going around?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Dawn, clear out your inbox


OOOPs!!!

Have done now.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It has, Katie... The postponing is just precautionary... There is somebody spreading rumors and we want to make sure that nothing bad happens at our very first show.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> I thought the SDAV was no longer a threat as other shows had been cancelled to stop the spread weeks ago, or is it still going around?



There are currently a fair few people who believe they have it - in the North this time ..... I don't think anything has been proven though but it is a serious worry and horrific for those who have lost rats


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Still going around i thought this happened months ago, we thought we had it but turned out was nothing.

Good luck with the show in july!


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> It has, Katie... The postponing is just precautionary... There is somebody spreading rumors and we want to make sure that nothing bad happens at our very first show.


Actually, there are at LEAST 9 or 10 incidents of it in different ratteries around the country, with quite alot of rats being lost....so i wouldnt say it was a rumour no....thats pretty insensitive as there are members on here who unfortunately have it too(touch wood i havent so far!)

The NFRS has cancelled all forthcoming shows also till at least september, and the YRC have also cancelled a forthcoming show/exhibition too.

The MRC have also cancelled the next show also.

It isnt fair to say that its just `rumours` as all those people who lost rats last time and more who have lost them this time....its certainly important to them, and putting it down to rumours?

thats pretty ridiculous.:banghead:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Well I'm lucky then as I haven't been to a show in over 18 months, I don't associate with other rat owners on a 'personal' basis.
I only speak over the internet or the phone and I've not had any looses due to virus. I've lost a couple of 'oldies' but they were due to just being old.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

This show isn't cancelled. It's postponed. I will not write what I wanted to, though.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> This show isn't cancelled. It's postponed. I will not write what I wanted to, though.


You can you know Jen we 'who know' will back you up.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

So does anyone really know who has this virus im scared now i have babies to home in a few weeks dont want them going to people with viruses!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

There's no way of knowing who has it without asking that person if they've lost any rats lately. I haven't lost a single rat in months, so I'm good.

A certain person has been spreading rumors about a very important person of the rat community that she basically started the virus. This woman is the best ratty person I know and will do anything she can to help the critters out. And that pisses me off. That person knows who I am talking about, as do a few others.


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## MissG (Aug 1, 2007)

I can do the 26th July! Woooo.

Can anyone please tell me more about this SDAV please? Is an airbourne virus? I have done a google search but not much comes up apart from shows that have been postponed.
When was the first outbreak? What are the symptoms?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Lover said:


> So does anyone really know who has this virus im scared now i have babies to home in a few weeks dont want them going to people with viruses!





Lover said:


> So does anyone really know who has this virus im scared now i have babies to home in a few weeks dont want them going to people with viruses!


Can someone tell me where I find out which shows are being cancelled as I've been on the NFR website and seems that shows are going ahead.

Lover,

I think you'll find no-one will tell you who has the virus or not. From what I've read it is not usually fatal, although someone says different, here's a link to the NFR writeup.
http://www.nfrs.org/sdav.html


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It seems only the old or infirm tend to succomb to the virus. The symptoms are similar to heat stroke/stress. And they tend to lose condition very quickly.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

So we think its not near us Jen, i know it was near preston last time i checked people were far away from us with it from FR.

I guess i will have to be extra careful homing and ask more Q's on there ratties health, recently i have homed to new owners so i think there clear.

I have only 3 oldies now all the others only a year or less. my big boys birthday in july near my birthday


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I think it was at Leeds last (but if that's true, then those who went from Manchester could have brought it back)... But it could also have actually been heat stroke with the weather we've had. *shrugs* Just ask loads of questions for the time being.


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## RCTLisa (Sep 18, 2008)

To try and help out here I can confirm that the commitee of the NFRS said this morning that ALL NFRS show are cancelled until September 2009 - this was stated on the forum this morning.

There were 2 shows - a YRC one and a FREC one and people who attended these shows have rats showing symptons of a virus which is believed to be SDAV.

Symptons are:
fluffed up, swollen glands on throat, sneezy, enlarged eye(s), 
(Information taken from the NFRS Forum)

Edited to add there are at least 5 confirmed cases from NFRS member plus a few more people who haven't come forward. I have been "told" the the YRC and MRC are also cancelling all shows until September 2009 - but haven't seen anything official.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanx for that, Lisa


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

RCTLisa said:


> To try and help out here I can confirm that the commitee of the NFRS said this morning that ALL NFRS show are cancelled until September 2009 - this was stated on the forum this morning.
> 
> There were 2 shows - a YRC one and a FREC one and people who attended these shows have rats showing symptons of a virus which is believed to be SDAV.
> 
> ...



Thanks lucky i dont go to shows anymore, seems there has been to many outbreaks now would put me off even if i did go, this has to be the 5th time outbreaks have happened in two years. I'm just happy my rats are safe and healthy.


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

i dont think anybody is scaremongering, but i think alot of us would hate to lose our ratties to something this bad :-(

I do think the NFRS, YRC, FREC etc have the right idea by cancelling their shows at the mo. thats not a personal dig at Mad Ratters for only bringing the date back, but surely its better to be safe than sorry?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I think July isn't far enough away, others are cancelled til September, as should this be. 

Some of us are losing rats left right and centre, if people hadn't been so secretive and flippant and attended the shows despite their losses, we wouldn't have been infected.

More honesty please people. Several losses in a few days is not heatstroke or normal "turnover". And even if you believe in your heart of hearts that it is, which I'm sure they must do - the best thing they can do is play it safe. I know Cynthia is, and other people should be too.

July isn't safe enough. I'd follow the NFRS in this one guys, you can chat online, it's not imperative this show goes ahead.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

saxon said:


> Can someone tell me where I find out which shows are being cancelled as I've been on the NFR website and seems that shows are going ahead.
> 
> Lover,
> 
> ...


Try telling that to those of us who have lost rats, and those who have lost into the double figures and still havent come forward.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I have the SDAV virus here, most likely picked up from YRC as the first 4 rats to display symptoms all attended that show and I didn't take any rats to FREC.

I am fed up of people burying their heads in the sand and pretending they don't have it, as they're costing my and people I care about our beloved pets. I am also fed up of those people telling me they have the virus, treating rats like they have but publically pretending they have a "normal turnover" into the multiples in 48 hours. Ostriches, and dangerous with it. 

*I would hope that Mad Ratters will cancel their show as it is the responsible thing to do.* It is very unlikely that two entirely separate viruses are going round the same part of the rat community. That's all I have to say, although I think some people could have some thought and respect for those losing their pets due to these idiots who found the pull of 2 stars too attractive to consider the safety of others. Rumours? Yeah right! Tell that to the tens of people who have lost rats this week. The cheek of it...


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

I hope your ratties get better soon! Who pretended they hadn't got this virus? I thought we did around a month or two ago but turned out to be nasel infection and not all had it.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I think it was Jen's suggestion that someone was making this up (and let's face it, she's not the first to say that in the last two days).

I've lost three rats, with seven more seriously ill, and I have a two week litter here that I am absolutely bloody petrified about.

I stayed up til 2-3am last night nursing sick rats for two to die this morning - so please dont make out this is just rumours.

And these are the symptoms - this is not heatstroke folks - this is serious and should be taken as such!

*Symptoms*

Early symptoms:

- fluffed up coat
- sneezing
- swollen necks

Later symptoms:

- excessive porphyrin
- rattly chests
- extreme lethargy, fluffed up coat, eyes shut
- loss of appetite
- sudden and severe weight loss
- watery foul smelling diarrhoea (I know poo never smells nice, but this literally smelt like decay)


*Treatment*

- *All* rats (both affected and not - apart from my nursing mum) - aspirin in their water at the rate of one 75mg dissolvable tablet per 2 pints of water.
- *All* rats have had echinacea drops and honey in wet food (milky porridge - many are too weak to eat dry food but will lap up the wet so it works both as food and fluids - make it quite wet)
- Those with symptoms are on baytril twice a day.

I must add that the baytril is so far making absolutely no difference. Perhaps an SDAV thread might be appropriate?

Back to it - I'm syringe feeding 3 of my 7 poorly lads, which is tricky when two are serial biters!


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Is it true pregnant and nursing mums can have synulux sp?

i was told that about 3 year ago with SDA virus


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Lover said:


> Is it true pregnant and nursing mums can have synulux sp?
> 
> i was told that about 3 year ago with SDA virus


Yes synulox is fine for mums and bubs/pregnant rats, as is azithromycin and such.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Minerva said:


> Yes synulox is fine for mums and bubs/pregnant rats, as is azithromycin and such.


 
ok, i was just wondering cause thats what our nursing mum had when we got SDA virus from YRS 3 year ago or so.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Try telling that to those of us who have lost rats, and those who have lost into the double figures and still havent come forward.


 
I was just going by the information on the link I read. I dont' go to shows so my rats hav enot come into contact with other peoples. People rarley come her who have rats. A lot of my babies go to first time rat homes or people with my babies from previous litters.

I've lost two bucks over the last 6 months but both were over 2.5 years old.

I'm obviously not far wrong saying people wont' come forward as it's apparent that most do not.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Most do actually, it's the odd one or two that aren't, despite saying to their owners they have the virus, they are telling the clubs it's normal rates of loss or heatstroke.

Believe me, the vast majority of those with this have had the guts to come forward. There is no shame in your rats having a virus, it's not as if we've got the clap - it's a rat illness ffs. :bash:


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

There are regular updates on the NFRS, YRC, FR and other boards. Mad Ratters have representatives on all boards and could quite easily have passed all this information on. Nuff said.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i think people would know if we had it, i do post pictures of all rats frequant and the rat room n such and all my babies, i hope you dont think im lying becaus ei came forward saying i had it a few month back when i didnt lol but better safe than sorry. i dont show or see people from shows so not liek it matters.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Nobody thinks your lying chuck.

Nobody thinks anyone is lying - it's just stupid rumours flying around with no basis.

I have pictures that could easily prove our outbreak, but I would rather not have to post them for the sake of upsetting people (mainly myself). The thing is - we shouldn't have to prove this if people weren't spreading rumours to cover their own backs.

It's a rat illness - no-one would be judged for having it, but people are likely to jump to conclusions when there are different stories for different people.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Nobody thinks your lying chuck.
> 
> Nobody thinks anyone is lying - it's just stupid rumours flying around with no basis.
> 
> ...


 
i agree totaly! You dont have to prove yourself, there is no reason you would lie about having it anyway hun xx


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## lau200 (May 2, 2008)

i'm trying to convince the OH to go :bash: would love to show my lot off :lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

As far as I am aware, this show will be held at the end of July as long as it's deemed safe to do so. I am only passing on information I have been given.

And I was going on the symptoms of what I was told my rats had several years ago as being the SDA virus. I had a lot of trouble regarding this several years ago (one of the reasons I stopped showing, actually). 

I have never had anything to hide regarding my critters...


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

The biggest rumour is that there are two different viruses at play (or none), there are not. SDAV was passed on at recent shows and lied about by some people (in fear?), and whether people believe it or not, they need to be aware of that so as to decide whether going to a pet show is advisable when other clubs have cancelled all shows til autumn. Frankly I would not recommend anyone attend this show unless it is postponed til September, like other clubs are doing.


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## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

I Personally don't feel July is long enough off and I certainly won't be going. People trying to play this down and say it's not such a bad virus clearly haven't experienced SDAV - it's absolutely horrible. Took one of my rats in literally a day and a half. I'm luck that I took action quickly and thats all I lost. Even if I hadn't lost any I wouldn't have wished this on my worst enemy. It turned my big squishy girl into this -









She's not an old rat, although from a pet shop originally and the skin was hanging off of her. Luckily she pulled through, but it was touch and go. I had 2 others who were ill, but not quite as serious, and all the rest bar 2 young babies had sniffles/spikey fur. My throughts are with those who have this in threir homes, i know what you're goimng through.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks for posting that Stacey - I know Lisa also has very distressing photos of Sebastian when he was suffering still (RIP Seb  ). I think any sensible person reading this thread will steer well clear of any shows til the autumn.


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## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

I can just about look at that pic now, since she's put quite a lot of weight back on again since she's gone back to her old eating habits (eating everything in sight). I had her lying on my neck gasping for breath, believing that every second was going to be her last. I barely slept for a week, getting up every couple of hours to make sure everyone was still alive. PLEASE take this seriously people, a show isn't as important as all those little lives.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Quoted from chairperson of Mad Ratters (Cath Eames of Kabbas Rats):



> The date change is currently under discussion by the committee. We certainly haven't yet agreed on the date so I don't know where that information on the reptile forum came from, it certainly wasn't from us.


Seems someone's been having us on again. Here's hoping that they decide to postpone for a lot longer. :2thumb:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

If people can learn from this, or if it clears up any confusion, here's pics of Sebastian shortly before he died.

*Warning* - not pleasant - please do not look if easily upset, pics were taken after I bathed his face to clear off the crusts of porph, as you can see it's already coming back somewhat (it was very much more severe before he was bathed). The kitchen roll around him was to soak up the fluids he was too weak to swallow. You can see the swelling on his cheeks. I thought I'd got a picture of his full body but I didnt, if you had seen it you would see that he was painfully thin, fluffed up, hunched and virtually paralysed he was so weak.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/ratastrophe/2009 rats/040609sebastian1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/ratastrophe/2009 rats/040609sebastian.jpg

If the mods think this is inappropriate, feel free to remove them.

Please note though - those pics are very tame compared to how he was 5 minutes before they were taken. His eyes were glued shut with tar-like crusty sticky porphyrin, as was his nose (I had to clear it so he could breath through it).


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## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

Oh Lisa how horrible for you. And poor Sebastian, RIP little man 

I would also like to point out that my ratty who died from this, Joker, showed almost NO symptoms at all. He wasn't quite right and went a bit warbly - but it was only noticing that change in behaviour that tipped me off - he went to the vet and was started on baytril. He had no porphyrin, and no swelling - I didn't realise how serious it was until he went to sleep with his girls and didn't wake up. Just to make people aware to be extra vigilant, and get ANY niggling little worries about your rats checked out.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

That is so true Stacey - whilst Sebastian's symptoms were typical but severe, my two other losses looked nowhere near as poorly. Just fluffed up and rattly.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Aw poor ratties all because of people being careless to tell people they had viruses.

So there is no show date now, lets hope september its held of till.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

If they have any sense they will do, although so far all I've seen is avoidance of the facts and denials. 

With regards to the SDAV outbreak, let's hope people use a bit more sense in future as it's people that pretended they didn't have the virus and that it was "normal turnover" or "heatstroke" that are infecting everyone's rats, 17 of mine are now fighting for their lives thanks to these idiots that put a sale or a star ahead of their and others' rats' safety. 

If people keep burying their heads in the sand they will have no rats left and no respect left, and noone but themselves to blame for it. The support is there for people infected - I know because I've had it and watched others get the support too. So people don't have an excuse to hide this and continue homing animals to the unsuspecting public or staging shows claiming it's all "rumours". :bash:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I can symathise with breeders/owners who have the virus.
As I say my rats do not come into contact with any other rats at shows or 'meetings' of any kind.

Surely under these circumstances the two old rats I've lost could realistically be thought of as 'natural causes'???

I've had no bad chests, rats that have lost weight dramatically, other than the two oldies, or any of the other symptoms that are related to the virus.

I've had one rat lose an eye to an injury but that was over a year ago now.

I think the thing here is that some innocent breeders, myself possibly included through 'association', may be presumed to have the virus when in fact there is almost no chance of it happening in the rattery.

What people need to remember is that sometimes when a breeder says they have no symptoms they are actually telling the truth as well.
I am aware some may lie but as far as I'm conerned I haven't been competitive enough to go to the shows when there have been no outbreaks so I'm damn sure I'm not going to one when there is.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I can understand the worry of guilt by association but can I assure you that I am in no way pointing the finger at people who have had no remarkable deaths. I'm not pointing the finger over the virus at all, anyone with it can come to me for help, advice and support. My finger pointing is entirely limited to those denying and risking rats.

There are people saying they don't have the virus when they have had 8 or more (in one case 20+) deaths in two days, you would have to have several hundred to thousands of rats for that to be "normal turnover" as is being reported. Think about the logic of it - 20 rats in two days is 70 rats "normal turnover" in a WEEK. 8 is 28 rats a week - eight in a month would be ringing massive alarm bells for me, never mind in two days. In one case I was told by the person themselves that they have an unknown respiratory illness causing deaths (most likely subclinical SDAV + secondary infection) and are in lockdown, to read on other boards that they don't and all their deaths have been natural or heatstroke - perhaps because they're frightened to admit it to themselves or to others, but still very worrying. I would hope that anyone reading this would think twice before moving rats. 

As for heatstroke, from what I've read the temperature has to be into the late thirties and early forties before rats even get symptomatic, I live in the same part of the country as these people and even without a window open on one v. hot day, I have not had a single overheated rat, never mind heatstroke in my rats. 

These are the people I am concerned about - not only for their own wellbeing, but for those people who are still getting rats off them. I have watched others suffer at the expense of people like this and tried my best to see the good in everyone, but it is very hard when people are losing rats or nursing very ill ones while these people pretend there's nothing going on. To come on here and read we were all making it up to hurt someone's "friend" was not only ridiculously childish, but very hurtful to those of us affected by this illness.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I did have a few losses due to heat when I lived in my old house early last summer.
I lost 4 I think and two syrian hamsters. The temps were around 34C but I'd been out and the weather had changed suddenly. I now have an air con in the shed.

I've also lost litters of syrians when we've had thunder/lightening storms due to stupid mothers thinking eating their babies is 'protecting them'.
I've not had rats do this though.
I had one syrian mother who pouched four of her babies and then drank from the bottle ultimately drowning the babies!

I must say though that earlier this year I was being emailed by 'someone' trying to convince me that other breeders/owners were not to be trusted.
I stepped out of the situation rapidly once I'd 'got the facts' from someone I trusted.

I have lady coming up from Hertfordshire for two of my hairless next week. She hasn't got any rats at the moment so I'm sure she will be safe for them to go to!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

saxon said:


> I must say though that earlier this year I was being emailed by 'someone' trying to convince me that other breeders/owners were not to be trusted.
> I stepped out of the situation rapidly once I'd 'got the facts' from someone I trusted.


What you highlight there is a fair point, there are always people with ulterior motives that latch onto disaster as a means to serving their own ends. I am not interested in getting in a fight, just preventing anyone else having to go through what I and others are going through. It's just a shame that others in the same boat aren't being as responsible.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I think the key thing to note is that yep - sometimes by some laws of fluke, you will get a couple of losses close together. But if you lose 10 in a couple of days it's unlikely to be natural causes.

I think it's very sad that some people are ok to let people know in private that they've got a virus (be it SDAV or another) but are just as happy to sit and let their friends tell folks they're liars.

I thought some of these people were my friends, it's come as a real blow to find out they're no better than some of the other people they associate with. Lying cowards.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Here's the list as of today:

06/06/09:
Sirius - fluffed up, glands on throat up. Bit porphy but eating and drinking. Not been to shows this year.
Irmak - rescue doe from Cynthia. Weight loss, slightly sneezy and as of today a small mammary tumour Not been to shows.
5 x baby boys - two of Jacky's, two of mine and one rescue boy. All slightly sneezy but very alert and active. 1 slightly fluffed up, another has neck symptoms as of 07/06. 4 were at YRC.

07/06/09, as above, Sirius worse, plus:

Freya - older doe, weight loss, fluffed up, slightly enlarged eyes but not inflamed/irritated as yet. Not been to any shows.
Deniz - rescue boy from Cynthia, came with Irmak and similar history. Fluffed up, slightly side sucky. Not been to any shows.
Twila - Halcyon hoody girl, new addition picked up at YRC. Slightly fluffed up and sneezy.
Tutti Frutti - head tilt doe (she's had it a while), sneezy, v. unhappy to be handled (crying/meeping), slightly swollen eyes. Not been to shows.
Woody - half chin boy, sneezy. Not been to shows.
Raiden - ivory, bred here, sneezy and fluffed up. Not been to shows.
Wish - young adult doe, porphy and fluffed up, no sniffles. Not been to shows.
Pendle - older adult doe, fluffed up and porphy. No shows this year.
Molly - lethargic/floppy (hard to tell if fluffed up as she is very rexy). No shows this year.
Double D - porphy, fluffed up, slightly swollen neck. No shows this year.


08/06/09, Sirius *much* worse (massive weight loss, lethargic, "hamster"-cheeked, squinting), girls slightly better other than Tutti and Freya who are the same. Plus:

'Rory - Sirius's brother, fluffed up and squinty eyed, slight neck swelling (?), hard to tell. No shows this year.
Ptolemy - v. slightly swollen eye, not very active today. Last show September YRC (Best In Show though lol!)
Chester - RE "cream", fluffed up. Last show Bradford Champs (Best JOP, ha!).
Devon - cream, fluffed up. No shows this year.


I don't think Sirius will make it. He is in a very bad way.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I've spent the last couple of hours with Sirius alone as I really felt it was time to let him go. These pics were taken just before I posted before, to give you an idea of his condition. 










In this picture you can see how squinty he was and how swollen his throat/cheeks are, this was slightly accentuated by his fluffed up appearance but was otherwise indicative of the swelling.










This picture shows how hunched he was and how squinty too. It does nothing to show how much weight he has lost, he is like a baggy pouch of skin with bones in. He seems to have lost some use of his back end although I am pleased to say he's weed and pooed ok.

In the last half an hour he has taken 4 x 2ml syringes of goats milk mixed with honey and brandy, and is now more comfortably asleep, waking for intermittent washes. I still can't see him recovering from this but he has won a reprieve for tonight. If nothing else he will drift off p*ssed and comfortable. :


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh Kathy  I'm so sorry that you're going through this too.

People please take note - while some people might not want to take this seriously, and want to write it off as normal "turnover" - some of us think of our rats much more like members of our family than "stock" and I've personally lost 4 members of my family, and likely more to follow.

No-one's to blame for having the virus - it's nothing dirty, you dont need a bell round your neck, no-one's going to hate you for having it. You just need to take notice, stop fibbing to people, and stop going out spreading it round.

Simples *wink*


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## Leigh_2503 (Mar 20, 2007)

As a small rescuer Im putting my self on lock down, I havent got the virus & sure as hell dont want it.. therefore no Rodents in & no Rodents out.. I wont be attending any shows til theres a definate all clear.

Can I just ask, how this virus would affect other rodents as I have Chipmunks & FM as well as Rats


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I have guinea pigs and no symptoms here, I think it's rat specific, but really you're better off asking Ann Storey, she knows an awful lot about this.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Division of Animal Resources :: LAB ANIMAL MEDICINE - ARCHIVES

Just did a web search, according to this lab report, SDAV is limited to rats. I'd still double check with Ann though.


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## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

Hows the ill ratties doing today?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

No change with the sick fellas, my boys with swollen necks alone are looking a bit better, but the babies came down with it yesterday. All fine, just little fat necks.

I wont post pics, but needless to say - hearing that some people are still rehoming rats despite being in close contact with infected or infected themselves and still planning a meet up - well, makes me want to headbutt a wall.


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## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

I know exactly how you feel. I'm arranging to possibly pick up rats in July so long as both me and the breeder have had no illness - I don't see why people are being so flippant about this. It's easy to tell who's been affected by this before!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I have two with secondary pneumonia who I don't expect to survive the next 24 hours. Some of my others are improving, others are the same as yesterday. I'm too tired to go into more detail than that, but I'm really glad it's getting through to people on here. All breeders in this and the Lancs area should be having a voluntary lockdown for now. I have heard reports of a Lancashire breeder continuing to sell rats while infected - these are not confirmed, but it is wise to be very careful if you do decide to take the risk. I will not be homing out rats for at least 8 weeks, probably longer.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i dont have other breeders buy my rats they mostly go as pet to new owners so i am willing to sell my babies when ready not for aother 4 or so weeks. i have no illness here. and there al welcome to see my rats before they go with babies, because i tend to take the bubs into the other living room otherwise there no space to sit lol.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

im really sorry 2 hear about ur rats kathy n lisa n i really hope all is well with them soon, it must be a horrible thing 2 go throught.

iv got a lady coming from preston on friday 2 get a couple of rats off me, she already has rats but pets only n she dosnt show, however i have alot of rats that i love 2 bits, is there any chance any of these viruses can be carried on cloths or on pet carriers as iv just read the thread n it has made me really nervous.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> im really sorry 2 hear about ur rats kathy n lisa n i really hope all is well with them soon, it must be a horrible thing 2 go throught.
> 
> iv got a lady coming from preston on friday 2 get a couple of rats off me, she already has rats but pets only n she dosnt show, however i have alot of rats that i love 2 bits, is there any chance any of these viruses can be carried on cloths or on pet carriers as iv just read the thread n it has made me really nervous.



Well i know from a trip holdinf rats a virus may be passed? thats what i was told so i never went to [email protected] when SDA virus was passing around there shops.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks ever so much for the support. However, I must stress that this virus is NOT limited to show rats and breeders. I know of a new case today that has not been to any shows and only has been to the vets and PAH, I have a good friend who is also "just" a pet owner and who has lost a rat tonight and has sick rats left behind. 

There has been a lot of talk on this thread about "This show is for pets so it's nice" or "My rats are pets", as if show breeders only have "stock" or don't care about their rats being good pets (or as if they're a different species lol). I hope I speak for any self respecting breeder when I say all my rats are pets too, but in my case I'm watching them die. 

It is very important that everyone, pet owner, breeder or rescue, takes proper quarantine precautions and checks out who they have contact with. Numerous deaths, no matter what the person describes as the cause, should be ringing alarm bells at any time, but especially at the moment. 

Wishing you all happiness and health!


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## RCTLisa (Sep 18, 2008)

This was written by Ann on the NFRS forum. I do believe the virus can be carried on clothes for 5 days?

No Risk: Keeping all rats at home, having feed delivered, not meeting up with any other breeder or rat owner. Not taking rats to the vet.

Very low risk: Picking up feed from pet shop, meeting ratty friend (but not the rats) who is infection free.

Low risk: Meeting friend and rats (no apparent illness). Exhibitions with one person's rats only, where these stay in their tank. Taking in rats from known source (infection free).

Medium risk: Exhibitions where rats are held, visiting the vets. Visiting friends whose rats are infected and taking full precautions on your return. Judging or visiting show with no rats.

High risk: Taking rats to shows and meets with multiple owners, rescues or homing from unknown source.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

When I stated this show was for pets only, I meant there wasn't a varieties class. Not that varieties breeders think of their rats as any less important than pet only keepers. And, like I said, I have no idea when this show will be held now... I was only passing on information that I had heard and have no input into the show itself.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Well I dont know who you heard from, but Cath says there is no new date, so I'm guessing they were telling porkies!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*shrugs* I am not dropping anybody's names into it, cuz maybe I just misunderstood. Regardless, it's postponed til we hear otherwise.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

RCTLisa said:


> This was written by Ann on the NFRS forum. *I do believe the virus can be carried on clothes for 5 days?*
> 
> No Risk: Keeping all rats at home, having feed delivered, not meeting up with any other breeder or rat owner. Not taking rats to the vet.
> 
> ...


OMG can it really, gosh :gasp: i dont know what 2 do now. i dont want 2 be rude n say u cant come but i dont want 2 put my rats at anysorta risk. how long do people think it will be around for ???


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It can be carried on clothes for 2 days, not five.

The NFRS did a good risk assessment:

No Risk: Keeping all rats at home, having feed delivered, not meeting up with any other breeder or rat owner. Not taking rats to the vet.

Very low risk: Picking up feed from pet shop, meeting ratty friend (but not the rats) who is infection free.

Low risk: Meeting friend and rats (no apparent illness). Exhibitions with one person's rats only, where these stay in their tank. Taking in rats from known source (infection free).

Medium risk: Exhibitions where rats are held, visiting the vets. Visiting friends whose rats are infected and taking full precautions on your return. Judging or visiting show with no rats.

High risk: Taking rats to shows and meets with multiple owners, rescues or homing from unknown source.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> OMG can it really, gosh :gasp: i dont know what 2 do now. i dont want 2 be rude n say u cant come but i dont want 2 put my rats at anysorta risk. how long do people think it will be around for ???


We are not sure. i thought all had passed but clearly not. This virus has gone on years so i supose its never going to perminatly go away. When your rats have had it isnt it true they are then immune to the virus once cleared threw it and ok?

I lost so many old rats around 2 year ago from SDA.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Once they have had it, they are immune for 6 months, then after that they can still get it but without symptoms, and will shed it still for a week.

If neither person has been near anyone infected, or at one of the shows that were thought to have had infected people there, in the last 3 weeks and none of you have sick rats, I cant see why rat drop offs cant go ahead. But if you've seen other rat owners recently, I'd give it 2-3 weeks lockdown before you rehome them.

One thing I've learned is that you can take all the precautions in the world, but it just takes one person to not take it seriously, deny having it, or naively (eg not on purpose) think they're ok to see other owners when they're infected. So I think it's wise that anyone with rats needing homes waits a fortnight without any rat related contact before they rehome just to be certain none of their friends have passed it on.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

i have phoned her n told her she can still come pick her rats up but she isnt allowed 2 come in the house she will have 2 get them outside i know her so i know the rats will be going to a very good pet home so i dont need 2 see how she interacts with the rats when here. she thought i was being rude at 1st but then i explained 2 her about these viruses n she totally understood as she knows i would be heart broken if all my rats got ill. i also told her by the sounds of it she was in the middle of where all the nasties are so she 2 is going 2 be extra carefull as her friends have rats also. i think its good u have informed people about this n now i have been able to pass info about it on n im sure she will also tell her friends


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Listening to the information I seem to be ok.
I've had no rat related contact other than one family, who did not have rats, who came to pick up a pair from me last week. They had not been to any petshops or other breeders either so they had had no contact with rat people prior to coming here.

Is there any chance this virus can just 'pop up' in a rattery???????

Good luck to anyone who has the virus and I think this has just made my decision for me as to whether I'll show in the future...I won't...........it's not worth the problems it causes when things like this crop up......I'm not competitive enough to put the rats at risk.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm scared of homing kits in a few weeks now. 
Well i supose its not possible for it just to pop up, we get food delivered and dont go pet stores. Only person i see with rats is my auntie but she also does the same as us food ordered and no pet shop visits. No new rats either, i wont be getting any anyway.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> i have phoned her n told her she can still come pick her rats up but she isnt allowed 2 come in the house she will have 2 get them outside i know her so i know the rats will be going to a very good pet home so i dont need 2 see how she interacts with the rats when here. she thought i was being rude at 1st but then i explained 2 her about these viruses n she totally understood as she knows i would be heart broken if all my rats got ill. i also told her by the sounds of it she was in the middle of where all the nasties are so she 2 is going 2 be extra carefull as her friends have rats also. i think its good u have informed people about this n now i have been able to pass info about it on n im sure she will also tell her friends


There's no need to do this. If she's clear, and you're clear, and neither of you have been in rat contact with anyone - why go to such trouble?

Besides, even if you weren't clear, meeting outside wont make any difference - you'll still pick it up if you touch or rats sneeze etc.

Just seems a bit like people are panicking over nothing. If you've had rat contact then why not just wait a fortnight? No point meeting outside, showering, spraying each other with disenfectant or wearing biohazard suits when you could just...erm...wait.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

saxon said:


> Listening to the information I seem to be ok.
> I've had no rat related contact other than one family, who did not have rats, who came to pick up a pair from me last week. They had not been to any petshops or other breeders either so they had had no contact with rat people prior to coming here.
> 
> Is there any chance this virus can just 'pop up' in a rattery???????
> ...


I dont show either. Still got it though.

Not showing is actually somewhat detrimental to their health too. The more you get out there, the better your rats immunity will be. Remember, SDAV is not a killer, only the sick or elderly are picked off by this and even then it's not likely.

I've attended shows for about 6 years now - and this is the first time we've come down with anything. People who show more often than me haven't come down with it at all - because their rats are building up immunity.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> There's no need to do this. If she's clear, and you're clear, and neither of you have been in rat contact with anyone - why go to such trouble?
> 
> Besides, even if you weren't clear, meeting outside wont make any difference - you'll still pick it up if you touch or rats sneeze etc.
> 
> Just seems a bit like people are panicking over nothing. If you've had rat contact then why not just wait a fortnight? No point meeting outside, showering, spraying each other with disenfectant or wearing biohazard suits when you could just...erm...wait.


because ur talking about how bad it is n how easily spread it can be saying u shouldnt even buy food from petshops, (i dont however get my food from the petshop) shows should be cancelled n that it can be on clothing etc, n people can have it n not even know about it n how ill ur rats get n then probably die, i havnt had any contact with any other rats the only other contact was one rat i got off a friend on this forum about probably 2 months ago now. so r u blowing this viruses up n making us all worry n panic, i dont know??? i would rather take extra precausions if its is that bad

i dont like the way ur saying 'if u werent clear' i am meeting outside 2 keep my rats safe seeing she is coming from preston as this is where u say it is, i havnt got anything wrong with my rats all are very healthy.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

No offense, but I really struggle with text speak. Keyboard is there for a reason, "u" and "n" and "r" are not words, they are letters.

I never said anywhere dont buy food from pet shops - I did however say that it's not just shows that are affected, but get some sense of perspective here.

If you've not been in contact with anyone who's got it - all you have to do it wait 2 weeks from the last time you saw someone else with rats or went to a show or got new rats yourself. How hard is that?

Crikey - some of us are going through this genuinely, and panicking over nothing just makes you look really selfish. You've not got anything to worry about as long as you have a couple of weeks off buying new rats or seeing rat owning friends. Not really that hard to comprehend.

No-one said stay in, never go out again, dont go in pet shops etc. We said get some perspective - you can catch this in other places too, doesn't mean you WILL.

*sigh*


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> No offense, but I really struggle with text speak. Keyboard is there for a reason, "u" and "n" and "r" are not words, they are letters.
> 
> I never said anywhere dont buy food from pet shops - I did however say that it's not just shows that are affected, but get some sense of perspective here.
> 
> ...


so basically u are blowing it out of proprtion, i dont think im being selfish caring about my rats n taking precusions as not 2 get it. 

if u dont like the way i rite then dont bother reading it :2thumb: for god sake its the internet not a friccking uni essay


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Yes, we're blowing it out of all proportion, I've had 5 rats die, and other people have had 20+ rats die - we're just doing it to stop YOUR fun.

No dont bother reading the advice, and the fact that you will still get it even if you hand over in Timbuck-fecking-too, you'd still pass it on your clothes or vice versa...

Seriously, do you even process the messages you read?


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## MissG (Aug 1, 2007)

I don't get this at all. And I think that's what's confused Jen.

Towards the beginning of the thread, it's mentioned how bad the virus is

Then, I read - panicking over nothing. Lisa, you say you have had 5 rats sadly pass away yourself - Whether Jen is over reacting or not, that is not "nothing" I think that's the point you are trying to make yes?....but in a strange sort of way, you contradict yourself?

In regards to buying food from pet shops, it has been mentioned by a couple of people that buying it possess a low risk factor and I think that's why Jen mentioned it above.

And Jen, you are most defiantly not selfish for trying to protect you loved Ratties. Ok, you maybe over reacting a little, but prevention is better than cure right?


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

u are making people aware of this viruse n how bad it is n how easily it spreads, so i say how i will take precusions 2 prevent it n u say im over reacting?? i know im fine n havnt come into contact with other rats for more than 2 weeks but what about the other person, people could say what ever they want, i dont see how waiting 2 weeks is nessery as the other person could come into contact with other rats/owners in another week n not think anything of it as they were fine n healthy or they may just want 2 lie n say they havnt been in contact. 

u say dont go 2 shows then u say shows strenghten the immune system etc so what are people meant 2 do???

i have alot of rats, n have alot of older rats that have produced me beautiful off spring they are much loved even tho retired from breeding i also have alot of older rescue rats people have given me that have been mistreated or found n it would be heart breaking for me to think of these getting ill, so i will take as much precusions as possible meeting outside is obviously not going 2 be as bad as coming into a house where alot of rats are kept is it. it may not stop the risk but it will lower it, maybe if little precusions like this was taken by others they would not have the viruse now.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

So whens the show........


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## izzyki (Jan 18, 2009)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> So whens the show........


ha ha lol


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*lol* Mark, that made me giggle  I will make sure to update those that are interested as soon as I know when the show is postponed for.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

izzyki said:


> ha ha lol





Amalthea said:


> *lol* Mark, that made me giggle  I will make sure to update those that are interested as soon as I know when the show is postponed for.


Glad it made someone giggle :lol2:

Seems this thread when off on a right tangent. :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> u are making people aware of this viruse n how bad it is n how easily it spreads, so i say how i will take precusions 2 prevent it n u say im over reacting?? i know im fine n havnt come into contact with other rats for more than 2 weeks but what about the other person, people could say what ever they want, i dont see how waiting 2 weeks is nessery as the other person could come into contact with other rats/owners in another week n not think anything of it as they were fine n healthy or they may just want 2 lie n say they havnt been in contact.
> 
> u say dont go 2 shows then u say shows strenghten the immune system etc so what are people meant 2 do???
> 
> i have alot of rats, n have alot of older rats that have produced me beautiful off spring they are much loved even tho retired from breeding i also have alot of older rescue rats people have given me that have been mistreated or found n it would be heart breaking for me to think of these getting ill, so i will take as much precusions as possible meeting outside is obviously not going 2 be as bad as coming into a house where alot of rats are kept is it. it may not stop the risk but it will lower it, maybe if little precusions like this was taken by others they would not have the viruse now.


I really do struggle reading your posts, I wish you put half as much effort into typing as you do panicking - we'd meet on some common ground then! :lol2:

Meeting outside will make no difference. It wont stop the spread if they have it. It wont lower the risk to your other rats. Because you will carry it back inside and it has 100% infection rate, all it will do is slow it down and make your quarantine if you catch it even longer. If your potential owners are not telling you the truth, they shouldn't be potential owners. Explain to them the importance, and wait a fortnight, it's really not that hard to explain.

Yes - it's a bloody awful illness. But only two shows I know of have been compromised, and only by one or two people. Those who've caught it from those shows wont be going anywhere for 6-8 weeks. Without some form of lockdown, it will be constantly spread about. But that doesn't mean two unaffected people cant meet up?

I just dont see the point of meeting them outside. How is that going to stop anything? You'll still be meeting them. You'll still make physical contact. The rats will still be breathing the same air.

That's what I meant.

The chances of the same people who've got SDAV going to YOUR pet shop or YOUR vets are so slim. The chances of them going to this show are higher. We're just saying be sensible.

As for the show, the judge herself is in lockdown because of her virus outbreak - and most/all other clubs have cancelled shows til September.

All I'm saying is there is no point panicking and meeting them outside - as if they have it, which is unlikely, you will still bring it back in to them. I dont know how much more simple I can make it for you - and I was only ever trying to help, but take it as you will cos I cant be arsed with you any more. There's people with half a brain I could be helping.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Given other clubs have all cancelled til September, I can't see it being before then. The judge is currently in lockdown too because of the virus going through her rats.


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## rat.bag (Apr 24, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I really do struggle reading your posts, I wish you put half as much effort into typing as you do panicking - we'd meet on some common ground then! :lol2:
> All I'm saying is there is no point panicking and meeting them outside - as if they have it, which is unlikely, you will still bring it back in to them. I dont know how much more simple I can make it for you - and I was only ever trying to help, but take it as you will cos I cant be arsed with you any more. There's people with half a brain I could be helping.



I find you really rude you know! Just who do you think you are? Why do you think you have a right to tell people how to write, call them stupid and act so condescending?

People like you are why i never post on these forums, and im just your average pet owner, it is very important people like me dont feel intimidated when visiting these forums as they won't bother looking any longer and will not be able to find out when out breaks like SDAV happen, they wont find out about good diets and they will never be told why they should buy thier rats from good breeders rather than petshops.

Think about it, being rude doesn't help anyone, does it? 

On another note my rats are showing several of the signs of SDAV and are currently on antibiotics, If you have met me recently (you know who you are) keep an eye on your ratties!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> *I dont show either*. Still got it though.
> 
> Not showing is actually somewhat detrimental to their health too. The more you get out there, the better your rats immunity will be. Remember, SDAV is not a killer, only the sick or elderly are picked off by this and even then it's not likely.
> 
> *I've attended shows for about 6 years now* - and this is the first time we've come down with anything. People who show more often than me haven't come down with it at all - because their rats are building up immunity.


 
Do these two comments not contradict each other?
I understand you may be saying you dont' take your rats to shows but do attend shows yourself but this would enable the virus to be carried to your rats via your clothing..no?????

Also if your sister is showing, you both visit each others houses, then there is another way the virus could be carried.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rat.bag said:


> On another note my rats are showing several of the signs of SDAV and are currently on antibiotics, If you have met me recently (you know who you are) keep an eye on your ratties!


I'm very sorry to hear you have SDAV too  I would highly recommend that you post on one of the actual rat boards (or email the NFRS) so that you can be added to the log of cases. It is really helping gain a picture of how to fight this awful virus. 

Saxon, I understand your points, but you've been to shows too over the years, please don't go around trying to apportion blame on me for my sister's rats dying as that is incredibly hurtful.  The people who gave my rats SDAV know exactly who they are and are sadly still selling their rats while infected, and I believe they came to the shows knowing they were too. These people aren't sharing information fully and have told porky pies to clubs.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

KathyM said:


> I'm very sorry to hear you have SDAV too  I would highly recommend that you post on one of the actual rat boards (or email the NFRS) so that you can be added to the log of cases. It is really helping gain a picture of how to fight this awful virus.
> 
> Saxon, I understand your points, but you've been to shows too over the years, please don't go around trying to apportion blame on me for my sister's rats dying as that is incredibly hurtful.  The people who gave my rats SDAV know exactly who they are and are sadly still selling their rats while infected, and I believe they came to the shows knowing they were too. These people aren't sharing information fully and have told porky pies to clubs.


 
I'm not blaming you by any means, I'm sorry if you felt that I was, I'm pointing out the possibilities that is all.
Lisa said she doesn't show and then went on to say she has been going to shows for 6 years. I thought those comments contradicted themselves.

As far as me going to shows I've been to two YRC shows. one in January '08 and one in May '08. I've never been to any others before or after those shows.
That's over 12 months ago since I attended a show. I only took rats to the show in January '08 I didn't have any at the next one I went to.
Although some russian blue dumbo's I had sold at the January show did very well at the May show I believe.
I speak to very few rat people from forums and when I do I try to stay impartial as there is too much 'he said, she said' going on in the rat world.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks Saxon, yes I understand what you're saying. The truth is that it is contradictory in itself not because of Lisa. Showing regularly builds immunity in your rats, but then you get people like the lady that infected everyone at the recent shows and I know if I hadn't gone we wouldn't have it now. It's a case of weighing it up. 

I completely agree on the he said she said side of things. In this case however I really wish it was just rumour. An investigation was made and what I've said has been as proven as it can be, and the woman who has had 20 rats die from this virus is still as of yesterday advertising her rats for sale, KNOWING she has SDAV and gave it to everyone at YRC and FREC. It's people like her that are stopping me continuing in the fancy, I just can't weigh this up as a safe thing to do any more.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

it says in one of the posts its not just show people that get it n precusions should be taken (or sumet like that) but then when i suggest percusions i am wanting 2 take when people are coming 2 my house that have pets only, i get told im over reacting. at the end of the day lisa just wanted to have a go at me, well let her if its makes her feel better :whistling2: but she has contridicted herself alot in doing so. 

let me know if u cant read it lisa n il write it out again just for u in essay style :2thumb:


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## JemmaF (Jun 13, 2009)

I've just joined this forum after coming back from a nice week away in egypt to find all hell seemingly breaking loose. Firstly i am really sorry to hear Lisa and Kathy and all others having an outbreak, it's a nightmare for anyone and i am thinking of you all. Thankfully my guys are all fine (well two are very much OAP's and getting to the end of their life) but then I've not had contact with other rats for a month ish.

Onto the first mad ratters show, I'm the Hon Sec of madratters and whilst this isn't an official club statement i can confirm what Cath posted on Fancy rats, we (the committee) are currently discussing what to do about the shows but at this time or the year it can be difficult to get everyone together to go through somthing. We are taking it very seriously, there are obviously people in the nearby area with ill rats so this does effect the show. I'll post on here as soon as something officially been decided. 

I'd also like to say that as far as I'm aware no one from mad ratters committee believe that anything is being made up about this outbreak, there is obviously something nasty going around and a lot of folk are loosing rats. My heart goes out to all those people.

If this show is cancelled then don't worry, there will be another one later in the year all being well and plenty more oppertunitys to have a lot of fun with your pet rats and other ratty folk. 

Please don't let the thought of virus' put you off going to a rat show in the future when hopefully this outbreak is over. There is a risk however as has been mentioned before the very act of taking rats to shows seems to help boost there imune systems, much like children going to schools. Shows and other ratty gatherings offer other benfits to both rats and humans too.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you for posting Jemma. That's ace of you to comfirm all that. Can I just point out though that the "something nasty" is SDAV, let's make that very clear so people don't misinterpret. :thumb:


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## morphy (Sep 18, 2008)

Couldnt agree more..

I dont suppose it helps at all, when people are told by others that it isnt SDAV.......... :bash:

Huggles to all who are going through this.......


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> I completely agree on the he said she said side of things. In this case however I really wish it was just rumour. An investigation was made and what I've said has been as proven as it can be, and the woman who has had 20 rats die from this virus is still as of yesterday advertising her rats for sale, KNOWING she has SDAV and gave it to everyone at YRC and FREC. It's people like her that are stopping me continuing in the fancy, I just can't weigh this up as a safe thing to do any more.



Who? someone from here or not?


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