# Getting High Injecting Snake Venom



## Dave-Flames (Sep 20, 2006)

Getting High Injecting Snake Venom - YouTube



Getting High Injecting Snake Venom?


----------



## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

bit weird...


----------



## bhayward (Feb 25, 2012)

Just a tad weird aye


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

I dont get the point of your post! As far as I am aware it has nothing to do with getting high he is self immunising simple as that!


----------



## bhayward (Feb 25, 2012)

slippery42 said:


> I dont get the point of your post! As far as I am aware it has nothing to do with getting high he is self immunising simple as that!


I think he said getting "high injecting snake venom" as thats name of video


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Think there was a Channel 4 'documentary' on this guy and other self proclaimed pioneers in the US.
I think it is an attention/ego thing personally.

Tom


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

*an illuminate*

Risky business but I think this man is interested in the medical side of research - that is clearly what he states and makes him 'tick'. His idol was the legend Bill Haast and it looks like he is wanting to follow in his footsteps in becoming immune to snake venom. He is clearly passionate about Hots and a little every day may well prove to go a long way. He openly states the risks and repeats several times that tommorrow or so may well be a self inflicted fatal incident. I do not think he is attention seeking - his history( 20+ years) predates the internet etc and it is a film crew (Vice Documentaries) that has approached him.

Stark - you have rear fang Boiga - so, how would you feel if you suddenly found out that your immune system would not cope from a very small amount of venom? I'm sure you would rather be immune to any effect whatsoever Boiga venom had upon your being would you not...

The only quirky point I interpreted was the 'youth factor' part where he says that snake venom may have some youth preserving properties and that is the only egotistic point I could find in the video blog. Every one has a right to their opinion though so I'm not knocking him for that. Afterall, that search for an elixir or 'fountain of youth' is as old in the scriptures and the lost sands of Time... Mar Nameh... Nagarani & Nagarajan ... In the Gabon dust they say they are 'walking on the other side' - of those that leave the body and come wandering back pale and wan in the early hours of some dawn... ritual and dance, shamanic belief sysytems as old as culture can translate... From Mesoamerica we have Kukulkan, Quetzalcoatl and vision serpentry... "_The serpent was a very important social and religious symbol, revered by the Maya. Maya mythology describes serpents as being the vehicles by which celestial bodies, such as the sun and stars, cross the heavens. The shedding of their skin made them a symbol of rebirth and renewal." Rebirth and renewal =_ a resurrection _etc..._  Appalachian snake handlers of the C.o.G Holiness movement... modern timessssssssssss...


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

KWIBEZEE said:


> Risky business but I think this man is interested in the medical side of research - that is clearly what he states and makes him 'tick'. His idol was the legend Bill Haast and it looks like he is wanting to follow in his footsteps in becoming immune to snake venom. He is clearly passionate about Hots and a little every day may well prove to go a long way. He openly states the risks and repeats several times that tommorrow or so may well be a self inflicted fatal incident. I do not think he is attention seeking - his history( 20+ years) predates the internet etc and it is a film crew (Vice Documentaries) that has approached him.
> 
> Stark - you have rear fang Boiga - so, how would you feel if you suddenly found out that your immune system would not cope from a very small amount of venom? I'm sure you would rather be immune to any effect whatsoever Boiga venom had upon your being would you not...
> 
> ...



Watch the other documentary with him in. 
Before the filming of that, he had never put any of his self envenomations forward for scientific research or been approached. The documentary offered to do so for him (if I remember correctly) He goes to the states to inject himself with the 'strongest' venom he could get his hands on (is coral snake I think).
The US keepers that are 'famous' for doing the same, also comment and worry on his reasons for injecting as well stop him from trying to use a higher dose. He also becomes very annoyed when they dont let him up the dose..
I personally think he is stupid and risking his life needlessly, he is addicted to the adrenaline rush that comes from the possibility of dying after every envenomation, so of course he feels more alive after every time.

As for my boiga, I already assume that I have a very low tolerance to the venom...

You also own the same species as me; Are you going to start injecting yourself?

Tom

ps. Having worked with Vice magazine on a couple of occasions, read a few articles and watched a few of their documentaries, I do not hold their work, reasons for their subject matter or accuracy of reporting with high regard.


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

But would you really say what he was doing was attention seeking?


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

AJ76 said:


> But would you really say what he was doing was attention seeking?


In some form, yes. Lots of people keep venomous snakes, but they dont have documentaries made about them.
Is he the only person in the UK doing this? 
Or the only one who has made it public..

Tom


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

stark said:


> In some form, yes. Lots of people keep venomous snakes, but they dont have documentaries made about them.
> Is he the only person in the UK doing this?
> Or the only one who has made it public..
> 
> Tom




I guess we just have to take the best quote from the video then and that is


"some reptile people are worse than Star Trek fans"


There are a whole lot of Trekkies and Klingons walking around this forum .....


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

We could discuss our views and help each other learn or understand, but its easier to tar all with one brush.

Live long and prosper...

Tom


----------



## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

I think what Stark (I agree with him) is trying to say, is that he could easily just stay out of the public eye and go about his business. 

And if it is indeed the medical side he is interested in solely, then approach the correct institutions and take it from there.

Rather than make documentaries, free handling videos etc, which can only be for attention. 

There isn't any benefit in the public knowing about these sorts of things. The public aren't going to start 'investing' money in him and try to find out if he's onto something. 

The only parties that can drive this forward are the pharmaceutical companies and other scientific institutions. 

I personally couldn't care less what he does, or if he kills himself doing it. Just like I couldn't care less if my next door neighbour dies from a heroin overdose - it's their own choice. But I think there is an aspect of attention seeking here.


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

He's doing it for his own good... Possibly one day gets tagged by a Hot - and SURVIVES... 

(Btw - I was injecting myself with wasp and bee when I was nine - got to start somewhere hey :2thumb:,so maybe I can catch his serious interest and pursuit and mode of thought. Moma one of the most qualified Nursing tutors in the Region and Popa ( LAW) was keeping rattlers as a young man before I was a twinkle in his beautiful eyes... another time, another place, other lives left undone...)

Personally I would like to work along side a man like that - I do deem it deeply interesting. Our body chemistries are so different as individuals and I strongly have faith in Nature itself providing all the answers for cures of all human sufferings - THAT RICH ARRAY OF FAUNAS AND FLORAS...

"Let Observation with extensive View,
Survey Mankind from _China_ to _Peru_;
Remark each anxious Toil, each eager Strife,
And watch the busy scenes of crouded Life;
Then say how Hope and Fear, Desire and Hate,
O'erspread with Snares the clouded Maze of Fate,
Where Wav'ring Man, betray'd by vent'rous Pride,
To tread the dreary Paths without a Guide;
As treach'rous Phantoms in the Mist delude,
Shuns fancied Ills, or chases airy Good."

"Should Beauty blunt on fops her fatal dart,
Nor claim the triumph of a letter'd heart;
Should no Disease thy torpid veins invade,
Nor Melancholy's phantoms haunt thy Shade;
Yet hope not Life from Grief or Danger free,
Nor think the doom of Man revrs'd for thee:
Deign on the passing world to turn thine eyes,
And pause awhile from Letters, to be wise;
There mark what ills the Scholar's life assail,
Toil, envy, Want, the Patron and the Jayl"

SJ

{btw: I don't attach any self-distructing anology to such activity, no grunge, no metal, no punk, no cyber-goth, warcraft, etc}


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Crotalid said:


> I think what Stark (I agree with him) is trying to say, is that he could easily just stay out of the public eye and go about his business.
> 
> And if it is indeed the medical side he is interested in solely, then approach the correct institutions and take it from there.
> 
> ...




Did you watch the video?


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Would someone kindly post a link to the other video mentioned - can't see any other related after that vid stops. Thanks in advance.


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

My opinion is that it is his body, he can do as he wishes. He doesn't make any big claims (the channel 5 documentary ended by claiming that the immunologist 'studying' Steve had made a huge yet bizarrely unspecified discovery) and the reality is that this is not science, this is a fringe interest enjoyed by a very small number of enthusiasts. He doesn't suggest that anybody else try it and indeed admits that he doesn't know what he is doing. In some ways it is refreshing (although worrying given the subject matter) to see somebody claiming ignorance rather than expertise. 

The only thing that I don't like is the comments under the video demanding that scientists and pharmaceutical companies 'research' him and snake venoms. He is not an experiment and what he does is not science. Snake venoms contain several hundred, possibly thousands of different components. He injects venom from at least four different species. What can you hope to learn from somebody that is injecting variable quantities of thousands of different compounds? Scientists and pharma companies have been conducting research into possible therapeutic applications of reptile venoms for a very long time, they are just not going to attract as many viewers. Hundreds of thousands of people take drugs based on reptile venom toxins.

David.


----------



## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Crotalid said:


> I think what Stark (I agree with him) is trying to say, is that he could easily just stay out of the public eye and go about his business.
> 
> And if it is indeed the medical side he is interested in solely, then approach the correct institutions and take it from there.
> 
> ...


----------



## jnorta76 (Dec 20, 2012)

Attention seeker, plain and simple. 

He doesn't need to make videos, whats the point? As DavidR has said this isn't science, its pseudoscience.


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

DavidR said:


> My opinion is that it is his body, he can do as he wishes. ... Hundreds of thousands of people take drugs based on reptile venom toxins.
> 
> David.


 
^^^ This ~ excellent reply - seconded.: victory:

Lots of Native American remedies, cures etc - okay that's a twist on the thread's original message etc.
Check out my new venomous snake handling suit... Orders taken upon request.








Suits you Sir!


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

KWIBEZEE said:


> Would someone kindly post a link to the other video mentioned - can't see any other related after that vid stops. Thanks in advance.


 
Bumpage too for this ^^^^

Think the title sucks - that's media-hype ( media-hypo - LOL) as what else would get more 'HITS' ?


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

jnorta76 said:


> Attention seeker, plain and simple.
> 
> He doesn't need to make videos, whats the point? As DavidR has said this isn't science, its pseudoscience.


 
I found the video blog most entertaining and educational.. Edutaintment.

So - spiritualism, esotericism, shamanism and faith healing aren't worthy because science can't ( in a lot of cases) be proved to be scientifically correct ??? 

One day we'll get there - believer and unbeliever ... scientist and muddy-joe-Cajun fiddler... poor little Pakistani villiger and the jet-set adrenalin junkie...


----------



## nathans (Nov 28, 2012)

Love his collection clearly loves and takes good care of them


----------



## Gratenkutzombie (Dec 28, 2012)

Watched the vid, few points:

- He's injecting the venom subcutaneously, which mean's it's going no where near any major blood vessels which may be a saving grace.
- He's storing the venom in his kitchen freezer. If that venom is freezing and crystallizing then it's going to destroy the protein bind's making it _alot _less effective.
- From a psychiatric point of view, there may be some element of deliberate self harm to which some people refer to as 'attention seeking'.
- There are also spats of 'grandiose' ideation re: skating through London in rush hour at a million miles an hour; the fact that people comment on how young he looks etc

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Let's see what happens.


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

clearly cobra venom has positive effects on horses as said in the documentry to me yh the bloke is taking massive risks with his own life but this said the late Mr Haast identified snake venom to be of medical significance years ago and its about time the medical indsusty pulled there finger out there backsides and started investing more into venom for potential cures like they have modifying viruses to carry payloads etc. my understanding although very basic from cobra venom is basically that it inhibits the feeling of stitch/muscle fatigue from the build up of lactic acid so hence u can keep going with no pain be interesting testing this on a marathon runner and seeing if they dont hit the wall so to spk


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

another thing im wondering is the injections hes taking of various viper venoms being necrotic is this the reason he looks so much younger than his age as its forcing cell regeneration faster than the body would usually. say compared to a cut a child recieves usually heals alot faster than an old person so is this forcing his body to increase and keep the same rate of cell regeneration with no reduction in age.


----------



## jnorta76 (Dec 20, 2012)

mikeyb said:


> clearly cobra venom has positive effects on horses as said in the documentry to me yh the bloke is taking massive risks with his own life but this said the late Mr Haast identified snake venom to be of medical significance years ago and its about time the medical indsusty pulled there finger out there backsides and started investing more into venom for potential cures like they have modifying viruses to carry payloads etc. my understanding although very basic from cobra venom is basically that it inhibits the feeling of stitch/muscle fatigue from the build up of lactic acid so hence u can keep going with no pain be interesting testing this on a marathon runner and seeing if they dont hit the wall so to spk





mikeyb said:


> another thing im wondering is the injections hes taking of various viper venoms being necrotic is this the reason he looks so much younger than his age as its forcing cell regeneration faster than the body would usually. say compared to a cut a child recieves usually heals alot faster than an old person so is this forcing his body to increase and keep the same rate of cell regeneration with no reduction in age.


Could you please link me to some papers that have stated a clear improvement in performance in horses injected with cobra venom? If you can't, don't you think it was banned simply because they were injecting a foreign substance into the animals?

Also, why do you seem to believe it is the venom making him appear to be younger than his age? I have friends that look younger than their age, but they haven't been injecting venom, it's called genetics. 

The medical industry has 'pulled their finger out' like you say, they've been doing research for many years into the components of venom and how they can be utilised. They don't need to use Steve as a experiment, because he isn't one, what he does isn't science it's an experiment without any scientific measures behind it or scientific protocol. Waste of time.


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> its about time the medical indsusty pulled there finger out there backsides and started investing more into venom for potential cures


This is a very active area of research that receives reasonably large funding, just pick up any edition of a relevant journal. Television companies tend not to make documentaries about it because the general public are not interested in real science. Instead they produce these entertainment pieces. If you do some basic research you will see that there are already quite a few medications derived from toxins, including drugs to lower blood pressure, block pain and treat diabetes, to name a few. 

David.


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

jnorta76 said:


> Could you please link me to some papers that have stated a clear improvement in performance in horses injected with cobra venom? If you can't, don't you think it was banned simply because they were injecting a foreign substance into the animals?
> 
> Also, why do you seem to believe it is the venom making him appear to be younger than his age? I have friends that look younger than their age, but they haven't been injecting venom, it's called genetics.
> 
> The medical industry has 'pulled their finger out' like you say, they've been doing research for many years into the components of venom and how they can be utilised. They don't need to use Steve as a experiment, because he isn't one, what he does isn't science it's an experiment without any scientific measures behind it or scientific protocol. Waste of time.


it was the doctor on gmtv when he was interviewed saying hes medical age is alot lower than his actual age and why would they be injecting cobra venom or any foreign substance into race horses unless it was to imcrease performance. its the same as putting high octane race fuel into a performance car rather than just optimax


----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> it was the doctor on gmtv when he was interviewed saying hes medical age is alot lower than his actual age and why would they be injecting cobra venom or any foreign substance into race horses unless it was to imcrease performance. its the same as putting high octane race fuel into a performance car rather than just optimax


I'd be very careful what you believe. The word of a doctor on a breakfast show is hardly proof of something science has been studying for generations.


----------



## jnorta76 (Dec 20, 2012)

mikeyb said:


> it was the doctor on gmtv when he was interviewed saying hes medical age is alot lower than his actual age and why would they be injecting cobra venom or any foreign substance into race horses unless it was to imcrease performance. its the same as putting high octane race fuel into a performance car rather than just optimax


So? You really need to look into things more, rather than spew information out. Many people have a lower metabolic age than their actual age, a 20 year old obese smoker and alcoholic will have a far higher medical age than a 20 year old professional football player. 

Your comparison is poor, i doubt anyone did any proper scientific tests to see whether cobra venom actually induced better performance. It could all be a con man who started it off to make money.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear. 

I've got a spare 2 million Euro's, send me your bank details and i will transfer the money.


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Holy shit have you seen him here? He's funny!

Comment Response: Getting High Injecting Snake Venom - YouTube


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

he might even come here and respond, he posts over on CB all the time


----------



## Logi72 (Sep 12, 2012)

SiUK said:


> he might even come here and respond, he posts over on CB all the time


eyelasher is him mate

Back to get more attention


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Eyelasher is not him. He is Legion for we are many...

Injecting snake venom, playing guitar with Slash and beating up Bear Grylls | Planet Ivy


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

More attention whore stuff....


UrbanJunglesRadio Show Presents: Emma Lock and Special guest Steve Ludwin - YouTube


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Gratenkutzombie said:


> Watched the vid, few points:
> - He's storing the venom in his kitchen freezer. If that venom is freezing and crystallizing then it's going to destroy the protein bind's making it _alot _less effective.


Well actually.... venom denatures rather quickly when exposed to the atmosphere that is why I put our venom samples straight into a freezer ASAP.
It is generally left in overnight and then lyophilised (freeze-dried). Venom is placed inside a chilled chamber while still frozen and the vacuum pump turned on. This process turns the venom from a frozen liquid into a dried powder that can be stored indefinitely in a normal fridge. I try to avoid leaving venoms in the freezer for too long.... I don't know if any damage is done to venom if it is stored in a frozen, liquid form in a freezer long term. For the sort of work Steve is doing (without having a lyophiliser) I'd pipet the liquid venom into eppendorfs in measured quantities ready for use rather then risk repeated freeze / thaw cycles.


----------



## EmmaLock (Nov 10, 2010)

eyelasher said:


> More attention whore stuff....
> 
> 
> UrbanJunglesRadio Show Presents: Emma Lock and Special guest Steve Ludwin - YouTube


Wow. 
A lot of opinions on here. 

I'm Emma - from that link above. I won't try to convince anyone as you're all free to think what you want, but I've known Steve for a while yet, and while he is an eccentric character to say the least he is certainly not an attention seeker. That title would make him and all who know him giggle quite a bit. 

Having seen his scars in person and what he has been through with self-immunizing, someone who experiences what he has through this practice would run a mile if they were doing it simply for the attention. 

Whether you agree with what he is doing, or think hes careless or anything else.. I'm sure we can all agree that plenty of other people who rocked the boat in science history have come up with some staggeringly good discoveries and maybe, just maybe he might be on to something.


----------



## GECKO MICK (Jun 6, 2012)

Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Logi72 (Sep 12, 2012)




----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Emzylock said:


> Wow.
> A lot of opinions on here.
> 
> I'm Emma - from that link above. I won't try to convince anyone as you're all free to think what you want, but I've known Steve for a while yet, and while he is an eccentric character to say the least he is certainly not an attention seeker. That title would make him and all who know him giggle quite a bit.
> ...


I have to disagree. In my opinion, Steve is an attention seeker. Why else would he post links to his dangerous behaviour all over the reptile forums, facebook, twitter, TV documentaries, breakfast shows, magazine articles and even radio? Thats not the sort of thing someone without an agenda would do. Is his wish to become famous - or infamous - or is there a valid reason why he would post such dangerous, irresponsible, and damaging endeavours for the whole world to see? 

I have tried to ask Steve genuine questions, but instead of answering them, he either writes 'I'm a robot whore for VICE', or sends a link to yet another pathetic video or radio interview, where he chooses to talk about eating mice, rather than answering the serious questions from fellow venomous keepers.

As for the science, I think it's already been established that his approach to self immunisation has as much relevance to science as a creationists view of life. If his intentions had anything to do with science, he'd have spent some of the last two decades doing basic research, where he'd have found that his actions are useless to science. 



> someone who experiences what he has through this practice would run a mile if they were doing it simply for the attention.


Please explain how you have come to this conclusion? Isn't attention seeking the motivation for SOME of the self harmers, suicide attempts, terrorist attacks, hunger strikes, sucide bombers, and those that claim to be, a yet-to-be-caught serial killer? Not the greatest comparisons, but I'm sure you'll see where I'm coming from.


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Annoying American Smoking Pringles Pipe - YouTube


----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

eyelasher said:


> Annoying American Smoking Pringles Pipe - YouTube


Very helpful. Maybe you should consider adding some venom to the pringles?


----------



## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

coldestblood said:


> I have to disagree. In my opinion, Steve is an attention seeker. Why else would he post links to his dangerous behaviour all over the reptile forums, facebook, twitter, TV documentaries, breakfast shows, magazine articles and even radio? Thats not the sort of thing someone without an agenda would do. Is his wish to become famous - or infamous - or is there a valid reason why he would post such dangerous, irresponsible, and damaging endeavours for the whole world to see?


Am I right in saying that you post pictures of your snakes on this forum? Keeping venomous snakes is a dangerous hobby, yet you're happy to post pictures of your venomous snakes on here, and no doubt on other forums/websites - does that mean that you're attention seeking as well? Members of the public will view the keeping of venomous snakes as pets as just as eccentric a hobby as what Steve gets up to, so should we all stop posting about our collections?

He's been self-immunising for 20+ years, yet most people are only just starting to hear about his antics, so its pretty clear that he's not injecting venom for the 'fame'. I would never considering self-immunisation, but i'm certainly not going to take offence if someone else wants to.


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Azemiops said:


> Am I right in saying that you post pictures of your snakes on this forum? Keeping venomous snakes is a dangerous hobby, yet you're happy to post pictures of your venomous snakes on here, and no doubt on other forums/websites - does that mean that you're attention seeking as well? Members of the public will view the keeping of venomous snakes as pets as just as eccentric a hobby as what Steve gets up to, so should we all stop posting about our collections?
> 
> He's been self-immunising for 20+ years, yet most people are only just starting to hear about his antics, so its pretty clear that he's not injecting venom for the 'fame'. I would never considering self-immunisation, but i'm certainly not going to take offence if someone else wants to.


My opinion...
Or maybe Steve has realised that there is a massive un-tapped audience out there and internet and media is the way to get to it..

Everything, from drug taking to self harming starts somewhere and, in my experience, on a social level and it is generally with in your close group of friends (if you have them) or like minded people. 

Most of those self detrimental actions are continued, out of a persons need or want for recognition and in some ways, sympathy. 
I personally feel that 'Mr' Ludwin is jumping on the Jackass band wagon, that so many others have embarked on in this current generation and is bringing his personal need for recognition and physical testing into the lime light for no other reason than a realisation that his previous efforts, to let people know how wild he and the human body can be, had failed. If there was no audience, he would not perform..

His constant 'robot' references surely show that he is only doing it to promote a magazine and youth culture style of media that is suffocating today's world. The possible science filled education he wishes to portray will never be taken seriously when advertised and sold under such tabloids as Vice and other 'scientifically valid' publications..? 

Something it appears (through pathetic advertising) is not a problem as long as we all know about it and buy an edition..

Keeping reptiles and being in the public eye, whether on a radio show or in a movie, gives you no more expertise or credibility than that ViperLover kid.. Worryingly, though, people will listen to you because you have a radio station link, filmed segment or minor celebrity in the room with you. 
I for one hope people dont try and tread the same steps you sell and your attempts to shock the world fail.

Tom


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

The best bit about all this is that every one has watched the video and is commenting and discussing it and giving Steve everything he wants which I am sure he is loving right now 

I would never ever attempt to do what he does because its not my bag but if if that what floats his boat then fine.


I just can't see why people think he is attention seeking.


We all know that we have a very deep inner desire to be famous for a certain amount of time.


What Steve does is rare and as soon as the media finds someone like him they will do everything they can to get him pushed out to the world.


As Azemiops says we all post pictures of our hobbies and snakes and most of the world has Facebook and join forums etc etc, this is all part of not wanting to be "out of the loop" and can all so be judged as attention seeking, boasting, gloating which are all the same in my eyes.


I keep a large amount of venomous snakes and I have my own fb page showing pictures of me with my animals. I have had a lot of angry and invasive comments sent to me saying I am attention seeking and deserve to die, so maybe the world see us as venomous keepers as attention seekers?


Just enjoy the entertainment and love Steve for what he is.


----------



## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

stark said:


> My opinion...
> Or maybe Steve has realised that there is a massive untapped audience out there and internet and media is the way to get to it..


Yeh absolutely, I don't disagree with that. My point was, that he's not injecting venom to get in the public eye - that's just a by-product of it. He's been given an opportunity to do some TV work, and he took it. I'm pretty sure most of us would do that same!



stark said:


> Everything, from drug taking to self harming starts somewhere and, in my experience, on a social level and it is generally with in your close group of friends (if you have them) or like minded people.


This point has no relevance, as it has never been a social thing for Steve - who else self-immunising in the UK? I know of one other person who had a dabble several years ago, but has since stopped. So where's the self-immunisation social circle?



stark said:


> I personally feel that 'Mr' Ludwin is jumping on the Jackass band wagon, that so many others have embarked on in this current generation and is bringing his personal need for recognition and physical testing into the lime light for no other reason than a realisation that his previous efforts, to let people know how wild he and the human body can be, had failed. If there was no audience, he would not perform..


This suggests that Steve has the power to look into the future. 20 years ago, he managed to predict that 'Jackass' and the jackass culture would be created, and started to self-immunise ready for this very opportunity.....right? Not really sure how to respond to this point - perhaps you didn't watch the video where Steve states he's been doing this for 20+ years? Otherwise you wouldn't the point that he's 'jumping on the Jackass bandwagon'.......a decade or more before it existed.



stark said:


> Keeping reptiles and being in the public eye, whether on a radio show or in a movie, gives you no more expertise or credibility than that ViperLover kid.. Worryingly, though, people will listen to you because you have a radio station link, filmed segment or minor celebrity in the room with you.
> I for one hope people don't try and tread the same steps you sell and your attempts to shock the world fail.
> 
> Tom


Please watch the video again, and take note of where Steve says, on several occasions, that he doesn't really know what hes doing to his body, that he has no scientific knowledge etc etc. He's not claiming to be an expert, or looking for credibility.


----------



## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't think this guys doing this for attention, as other people have rightly pointed out, he's been doing it for over 20 years.
If anyone actually watched the whole video then it's worth watching the video response where he answers some of the comments.

Back to the main video though, I don't think i could myself doing what he's doing but whilst some of it makes you think, 'you're not very smart, are you?' 
where other parts make me think ,'hmm valid point' like when he talks about the medical stand point.

One more thing, I haven't seen the video where he free handles that viper but by the looks of it to me, he's kind of saying,'look, these aren't monsters they're made out to be, they're awesome creatures'. 

And lets face it, anything you post on the internet wether it be a video or a pic, are you not posting that to 'show off' to other people.


----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Azemiops said:


> Am I right in saying that you post pictures of your snakes on this forum? Keeping venomous snakes is a dangerous hobby, yet you're happy to post pictures of your venomous snakes on here, and no doubt on other forums/websites - does that mean that you're attention seeking as well? Members of the public will view the keeping of venomous snakes as pets as just as eccentric a hobby as what Steve gets up to, so should we all stop posting about our collections?


Yes, I do post pictures of my collection, but thats completely different to what Steve is doing. My pictures are all about the animals, and meant for those with a simialr interest in venomous snakes. At no point will you see me posting anything which could damage the hobby, or the reputation of those involved in it.

So if you see sharing responsible images as attention seeking, then yes, maybe I am an attention seeker too.



> He's been self-immunising for 20+ years, yet most people are only just starting to hear about his antics, so its pretty clear that he's not injecting venom for the 'fame'. I would never considering self-immunisation, but i'm certainly not going to take offence if someone else wants to.


I agree. He's original reason for SI was almost certainly a private thing. However, he's now been 'noticed', and is milking it (no pun intended) for everything he can, while ignoring the damage it could do to the snake keeping community.

My issue is not with Steve himself, I'm sure he's a nice guy, and a great snake handler. My problem lies with how he's gone about sharing his practices. Rather than sharing his experiences with those who understand what he's doing, and interested in his findings, he's chosen to post links all over the net, giving people the impression that what he's doing has real benefits to human life. Yes, forums are designed for sharing info, but there's a point when sharing becomes spamming, and thats what I believe Steve has began doing. 

If someone chooses to go out of their way to post this kind of behaviour, they should expect some sort of criticism, and be willing to answer general questions regarding their motives. The fact that he doesn't know much about what he's doing, despite having more that 20yrs to learn, makes it look even worse. How do you think that sounds to someone who still believe snakes are slimey creatures, sizing up their sleeping owners? Will it help the stigma already associated with the keeping of venomous snakes?

I'd also like to point out that I do not think he should stay out of the public eye, or stop SI, but to conduct himself in a more mature manner, where open debate is welcomed. If he is asked a question, replying with a link, where everything he says is repeated from the previous link, is pointless. Why not just answer the question where it was asked?


----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

I will admit to being amused by the pringles video.


----------



## muru (Apr 27, 2008)

Not a lot more to say that hasn't been said really.
I'm fortunate to know Steve quite well, I say fortunate because he is one of the most interesting people I have met, full of knowledge, cool stories and his passion for his well kept animals Is admirable.
For those who have criticised his unusual (yet hilarious) responses to questions on here via pm or whatever, it's already apparent that he admits to not knowing what he's doing, and that there is little true science involved, so why should he waste his time justifying his actions to the people calling him nothing but an attention seeker? 
Getting a kick out of winding up Star Trek fans may also be one of his other hobbies :whistling2: and I can't say I blame him, what does it matter what he does to his own body? to those who think he's damaging the hobby, lets be honest, our whole political system has a lot more to worry about than who keeps snakes, it's just an easy argument. 



> His constant 'robot' references surely show that he is only doing it to promote a magazine and youth culture style of media that is suffocating today's world."


This genuinely made me laugh, thank you 

Spock out


----------



## jnorta76 (Dec 20, 2012)

Doug Hotle: I will say it. Bill Haast was a great pioneer and true scientist until the end. How many of you actually had long conversations with Bill regard to what he was thinking/dong. At the time of Bill's reign, our ability to understand and work with molecules was very limited, and it still is. Venoms work in interesting ways, which is what makes them medically important, made up of hundreds, possibly thousands (we still don't know as we are limited as to what we can scientifically see) of molecules. 

Together these molecules act as an army. Once they infiltrate, they spread out and begin a full on assault. Some are there for simple recklessness and diversion, some are there to assist the specialists, and then there are the specialists. These are the true threat, designed and implemented to do what they do best. Let's say as part of the assault you want to cut off supplies. So in comes the demolition expert to blow up a bridge. Or, maybe the important part of the mission is to cut off communication. There's your specialists in the group. In a medical fashion, these may be your target molecules. Can we use this single "specialist" to interrupt a signal, say perhaps a potassium-fired ion and slow down or halt the tremor effect of Parkinson's? Or perhaps blow up a bridge, or break a chain, of another protein that allows it to then function in a normal way?

This is how we look at venom as a medical possibility. Sending in the entire army simply causes mayhem, collateral damage, irreversible destruction and can cripple the surrounding countryside for years if not permanently. That is the function of an army. The down side is that this creates a lot of attention and defenses come from all over to fight against the intruders...creating even more confusion and damage. However, if we send in the specialist, or the SEAL team, our offensive is focused, targeted, quiet, efficient and carried out with surgical precision. Most of the time, the surrounding population never even becomes aware they are there and gone. 

Self injecting, to me, is counterproductive to anything medically viable. Unless we have 1,000 identical individuals to run a study, what are we really learning? What are we targeting by this? What baseline do we have to measure against? With one individual, how do we model success or failure as opposed to a natural function or dysfunction of that person's system? Finally, the costs far outweigh the benefits., by a huge margin. 

As for Bill Haast, yes indeed he was a great man in his field. But, how many of you have actually had a detailed conversation as to what his thoughts were on this, and how they may have changed over the years. Yes, I get that he lived to be 100. So do many people. My grandmother is a few years shy and I can attest that she has never even touched a snake. My aldabra tortoises are up there, perhaps a couple times over....no venom needed. It's not wise to try to pin one issue to another simply because it sounds pleasing, the internet is full of this. Bill did what he did with what he had to work with at the time. As do ALL scientists. but we've moved on from that with the introduction of new tools that help us better understand what we are looking at, working with and pushing towards. Beating a stick on a rock does indeed make a cool sound....but I dig my Fender Stratocaster much more.

With all due respect to Mr. Haast. He opened a thousand doors for us. He will always be a great pioneer and one of the best ever. From a strict scientific standpoint, we have moved ahead.
As for the self-immunizers.... I don't see a pioneer, or a scientist. I see a dude with a venomous snake, a beer, and internet access. Sorry for the rambling.

BGF: Love it! Well written mate. I had to stop and have a cup of coffee halfway through, but I got there in the end As for the self-immunisers today, to show they can develop resistance to venom is not a scientific contribution, we already know this can occur from all the countless horses, sheep etc that have been immunised with various venoms (and other proteins). As for the health benefits, if this was authentic then we would have observed similar benefits in all these immunised horses, sheep etc.







^^ Think it's fair to say anything that Steve is doing is completely useless. He needs to find something more worthwhile to follow, maybe a circus act?


----------



## Lamprophis (Jun 12, 2008)

This guy's such a dick hammer... I mean, aren't there antis hiding in the bushes of every venomous snake keepers garden here in the UK?? Think of what it could do to the hobby...

Alternatively... Think of better things to worry about and take time to listen to what Steve says in his videos. It would appear a large percentage of people who have posted negative comments on this thread haven't really been paying attention to what he's been saying on camera. He hardly strikes me as someone doing it "for the fame" - Those people generally lose interest and climb back into their holes after 5 minutes of attention seeking. Steve has been doing this for 20 or so years.

Did you know antis are also against fishing because it's cruel? you're right.. no one cares about that either.. 

I'm off to plan for my next star trek convention, see some of you there.


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Colombian national TV...

El hombre Serpiente, Steve Ludwin - YouTube


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Django vs Rango - Driving Chameleons - YouTube


----------



## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

eyelasher said:


> Django vs Rango - Driving Chameleons - YouTube


What a penis, I think that just about covers it

Edit- I think this guy is like Marmite you either love him or hate him.


----------



## iLuke (Jul 14, 2011)

Bit weird but good videos..


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Love at First Bite: Critical Eye : Details


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

i still dont get why the chinese would of been injecting cobra venom into race horses and then got banned if it was anything but for performance enhancing


----------



## eyelasher (Feb 22, 2010)

Yeah Mikey I was really curious as to what it did to the horses? They all were reported to outperform their abilities. And if it works on a horse...


----------



## Jack W (Feb 9, 2009)

After seeing the vice documentary and reading this thread I originally thought I would just steer clear of this controversy... But really, holding a milk snake with ophiophagous tendencies and a pit viper at the same time. Please tell me that was photoshopped.


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> What a penis, I think that just about covers it
> 
> Edit- I think this guy is like Marmite you either love him or hate him.




more like you love to cover your penis in Marmite


----------



## Dz75 (Aug 22, 2011)

Haven't been on the DWA section for ages, but.. Wasn't there a;ready a massive thread about this ? Or was that someone else that was doing it ?


----------

