# Have the loony won?



## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

So Donny is still on as far as I'm aware but that's it in the UK now isn't it?

Have the loony types actually won? Will the likes of Kempton ever response?


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## **louise** (Nov 10, 2010)

There's this one posted a few topics down in this section...

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...meetings/1093883-combined-erac-bras-show.html


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

chalky76 said:


> So Donny is still on as far as I'm aware but that's it in the UK now isn't it?
> 
> Have the loony types actually won? Will the likes of Kempton ever response?


Looks like, with the exception of the one below:



**louise** said:


> There's this one posted a few topics down in this section...
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...meetings/1093883-combined-erac-bras-show.html


First ERAC show in 3 years, as they find it difficult to find venues that will host the show. Last one was crap- held at a horse riding hall, it was miles out in the sticks (Blackmore, in the rural area of Chelmsford), not on a public transport route (4 miles by taxi from Ingatestone station) hard to find even by car, draughty with unglazed windows & doorways with no doors, & had a horrible floor of rubber granules. This new one should be miles better.


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## kingsnake (Mar 23, 2007)

Combined ERAC/BRAS show on 17th July 2016 at Barleylands , Billericay, Essex.
All tables now sold


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Just a reminder about the show, as many are still unaware of it apparently.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Looks like the APA have struck yet again:
Illegal reptile trading event is revealed down as animal inspectors use hidden body cameras to record wrongdoing (From Echo)


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

With the conditions shown in those pictures, honestly I don't see a problem. I have never been to a show but the conditions shown in the pictures are hardly good. 

Whilst I am sure we all care for our animals properly I don't think this often used justification makes it ok to buy animals in the way shown in the link. Forgive me if they are not a true representation of a show, but from the pictures some of the leopard geckos are not 'happy', they are clearly trying to move out of the containers. 

It isn't possible to tell with the snakes but surely a small clear container with no hides isn't adequate. 

The lack of heating for both animals must be a problem too, with it being impossible to thermo-regulate.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> With the conditions shown in those pictures, honestly I don't see a problem. I have never been to a show but the conditions shown in the pictures are hardly good.
> 
> Whilst I am sure we all care for our animals properly I don't think this often used justification makes it ok to buy animals in the way shown in the link. Forgive me if they are not a true representation of a show, but from the pictures some of the leopard geckos are not 'happy', they are clearly trying to move out of the containers.
> 
> ...


You really should attend a show before judging them- these are animals for sale, for a single event. All shows are like this. The venue was heated, & it was a hot day anyway. Plus all the tables are heated. None of the geckos were trying to get out, they were fine. As for hides, that would be pointless as the animals need to be seen by potential buyers, & it's only for one day. This was a typical reptile show just like Donny hosts several times every year.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

wilkinss77 said:


> You really should attend a show before judging them- these are animals for sale, for a single event. All shows are like this. The venue was heated, & it was a hot day anyway. Plus all the tables are heated. None of the geckos were trying to get out, they were fine. As fore hides, that would be pointless as the animals need to be seen by potential buyers, & it's only for one day. This was a typical reptile show just like Donny hosts several times every year. All shows are


Yes, I agree that to fairly judge I should attend one. I was basing my reply on the pictures mostly. 

Are you sure about the geckos? Some of them have the head between the lid and body of the container and it doesn't look like they are calm, more as if they are pushing. I have noticed with the very occasional soak that was once necessary for my leopard gecko she would do this exact movement at the lid of the container presumably trying to get out.

I appreciate they need to be seen, but compromising welfare to make this possible is not very humane in my opinion. 

If this is typical I see where the various welfare groups are coming from to some extent. 



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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Yes, I agree that to fairly judge I should attend one. I was basing my reply on the pictures mostly.
> 
> Are you sure about the geckos? Some of them have the head between the lid and body of the container and it doesn't look like they are calm, more as if they are pushing. I have noticed with the very occasional soak that was once necessary for my leopard gecko she would do this exact movement at the lid of the container presumably trying to get out.
> 
> ...


I saw the geckos on that table, & they weren't trying to get out. Btw, you need to understand exactly what the APA are, & their intentions- they aren't an animal welfare group, they are an animal 'rights' group, & they are against reptile keeping of any kind regardless of the quality of welfare. In fact their mission statement is to put an end to all keeping of captive animals, & they are anti- pet keeping- including cats, dogs & fish. They want it all banned. & they don't work for the government- they are in fact, low-key eco-terrorists- they use the terror tactic of lies & scaremongering.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Since when were the APA anything to do with the Government??
"The Governments Animal Protection Agency"?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> Since when were the APA anything to do with the Government??
> "The Governments Animal Protection Agency"?


That's what has me fuming, as well as ERAC & BRAS' failure to forewarn either the council, Barleylands or both, about the APA before the show. Especially as ERAC have become nomads where shows are concerned because venue after venue have refused to rebook them after the APA scaring the venue owners off.


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## kingsnake (Mar 23, 2007)

Barleylands were FULLY briefed on the APA before the show, but as usual the bullies have won - for now....


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

kingsnake said:


> Barleylands were FULLY briefed on the APA before the show, but as usual the bullies have won - for now....


So why did the council & Barleylands listen to the APA's crap despite being warned about them? & Barleylands should know better, being a farm that deals with animals & has a reptile zoo! One would have thought they would be wise to the skullduggery of the APA.


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