# DWA in Council House?



## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey all i was just wondering out of Curiosty, are you allowed a DWA liesence in a Council House?
(i don't live in a Council house, i just thought of it whilst on the bus to college)

Thanks

Dec


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I imagine it varies from council to council, as some councils say no pets at all, some say 2 dogs 2 cats.. others have no set amount. I have heard people say their council has specifid no reptiles before, therefore I imagine that many councils might also say no DWA, if they don't allow pets at all then there's little point applying for a DWA there! But it'll be different from county to county.


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

If they say no pets then its n pets, if they specify certain species such as dogs then it's nly those animals you cant keep so if it doesn't say you cant have it then you can.

Hope this makes sences as it does to me after a few glasses of red wine.

hic!!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Very often the pets rules apply only to cats and dogs for obvious reasons ie neighbours annoyed at cats crapping in their garden, dogs barking, or out of control, and the potential for damage to the house by either. As reptiles are odourless (or should be if properly cleaned!!) and contained, then the council should not have an issue with keeping them.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

not being a spoilsport but i wouldnt want a DWA next door to me. my sister is only 8 would have no idea what to do if confonted by a snake......................

say you lived in a flat and your naja naja or russels viper got out, what do you do then?

to dangerous for my liking!


HANDLE WITH CARE................ YOUR FIRST MISTAKE WILL BE YOUR LAST


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## Xiorell (Aug 15, 2007)

knighty said:


> not being a spoilsport but i wouldnt want a DWA next door to me. my sister is only 8 would have no idea what to do if confonted by a snake......................
> 
> say you lived in a flat and your naja naja or russels viper got out, what do you do then?
> 
> ...


I thought that was half the point of the DWA Inspection... to see that you can care for it without it being a danger to anyone else? That and the care of the animal of course.
Not that I KNOW this or anything, would just seem like a logical part of an inspection to me **shrug**


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Xiorell said:


> I thought that was half the point of the DWA Inspection... to see that you can care for it without it being a danger to anyone else? That and the care of the animal of course.
> Not that I KNOW this or anything, would just seem like a logical part of an inspection to me **shrug**



Not to sure on what they do when checking, not really that bothered!

just my opinion that i dont want DWAs next door to me, or my family.

Fascanating creatures, just to dangerous to be kept without propper training on care and handling.

I PERSONALY think that you should have to take a course before you are given the lisence, and the lisence should only carry the species you have trained for.

JUST MY OPINION


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

knighty said:


> Not to sure on what they do when checking, not really that bothered!
> 
> just my opinion that i dont want DWAs next door to me, or my family.
> 
> ...


minus the training thats what a liscence check for. One of the requirements is a locked escape proof room. The chance of one geting out are slim. 

The vet checks and purchasing dwa animals often weans out those that arnt suitable. 

Jay


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## tengalms (Feb 5, 2008)

knighty said:


> not being a spoilsport but i wouldnt want a DWA next door to me. my sister is only 8 would have no idea what to do if confonted by a snake......................
> 
> say you lived in a flat and your naja naja or russels viper got out, what do you do then?
> 
> ...


What would she do if confronted by a couple of Rottweilers,or similar that have just got out of a compound/neighbours garden and are intent on ripping her to pieces!,how many members of the public,have you heard of being bitten by a venomous snake ?,and how many have you heard about being attacked,mutilated,killed by dogs ?.You can keep dangerous dogs with no inspection at all,today in liverpool a young girl attacked by friends staffordshire bull terrier.The idea behind the inspection is to ensure that the general public are safe,and the applicant has the knowledge to keep the species concerned,safely and securely.So the question is would you be happy living next door to a few potentially dangerous dogs,where there are no controls at all.


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Please dont say Rottweilers, they are very powerful dogs, but in 90% of cases there as soft as pillows...I can understand what your saying and only giving an example...But please dont use Rottweilers all the time...

People give them really bad names, the chances of getting bitten by a little terrier and a jack russel is far more common, just not as bad...

Sorry to rant, but please dont use Rotties, for the cause of all dog probs


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

I do understand what you're saying knighty, but to be honest it's NOT the license holders you need to worry about, it's those that keep the snakes without the license that are the worry! Those that are bothered enough to go through the licensing process have usually undertaken some form of training or mentoring, the premises are checked by the council and a vet, those without aren't.

There's no such thing as a bad dog ... just bad owners!!!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Exactly GLiderGirl, people give big dogs bad names, but you will find little dogs will yap and bite more frequently


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i can see i have coused a bit of a storm here!:lol2:

i understand what people are saying about dogs, but when you look at most cases(especialy liverpool), most of the dogs involved are fighting dogs, that are trained to kill, Making them highly ellegal, and dangerous

It is all down to the owners i know, but if you make a misstake and your dog gets out, you can see it, there pretty big, but lose a snake and it could go any were!

i know you will all be thinking, well i wouldnt make a misstake, but they are some famous last words!

if the snake turned and bit you, you drop it in a panic(cos you may well die)
what happens then, it will not get back into the tank and wait for you to maybe come home, it will wriggle away.
imagine finding it again in your bed!

i watched the video on here of david williams, 20 years expierience and look what happened there!
the snake that bit him can produce enough venom to kill lots of us pretty quick, so give me the big dog any day.

as for the lisencing programe, i cant believe they dont check if your trained!
i am fairly sure i could read enough to blag through an interview, then you have an untrained guy with an animal that can attack without warning.
 And im affraid any room with a door and floor boards is possible to be escaped from.

If there realy are unlisenced DWAs in this country something needs to be done to stop that! not only is it a health risk as it probably is not being kept locked up, but it is unfair on the animal, as the moron who brought it has probably no clue on how to propaly care for it, and as for the person selling the unlisenced, and no doubt ellegally smuggled, snakes, they need to be tracked down and stopped. problem with this country is things are to easy to get in and out without being noticed!

i know i am picking on snakes here a bit, and i apologise for that, dont have anything against them just think it is dangerous to have a venomous one in your home, can do the same damage as a gun(DEATH) but i cant own one of them!

i have nothing against keeping DWAs i just think they should be left to TRAINED people, with a house far from me.

 I dont mean to wind up or irritate any one, but this is a forum and im allowed my opinion, or whats the point:hmm:


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

knighty said:


> i can see i have coused a bit of a storm here!:lol2:


Forums are filled with controversy! 





knighty said:


> i understand what people are saying about dogs, but when you look at most cases(especialy liverpool), most of the dogs involved are fighting dogs, that are trained to kill, Making them highly ellegal, and dangerous
> 
> It is all down to the owners i know, but if you make a misstake and your dog gets out, you can see it, there pretty big, but lose a snake and it could go any were!
> 
> ...




That's why checks are carried out by the council. The room in which the venomous snakes are kept should be completely sealed with no hidey holes or escape routes for escaped snakes. 

IF you get bitten, then your back up handler should be either putting the snake away or dialling for the ambulance whichever the handler isn't doing.

There are certain protocols which venomous keepers have to hand and should know off by heart (and so should the back up handler) in case of an emergency situation.





knighty said:


> as for the lisencing programe, i cant believe they dont check if your trained!
> i am fairly sure i could read enough to blag through an interview, then you have an untrained guy with an animal that can attack without warning.





knighty said:


> And im affraid any room with a door and floor boards is possible to be escaped from.


Well, I can't comment on DWA 'interviews' as each council is different, I do know of a person that had been keeping snakes for 6 months before applying for and getting his license! 

But rooms can be made safe, in fact Tengalms on here has some pics of his venomous room, I can't provide links as they're actually posted on another forum, but floors can be laminated, and all holes blocked properly (not just with rolled up paper!), you can buy those rubber type draught excluders for the bottom of doors so a snake cannot disappear through there.

It can be done with a little thought - which is why the mentoring process is so important because they will point out things that you never even thought about! 



knighty said:


> If there realy are unlisenced DWAs in this country something needs to be done to stop that! not only is it a health risk as it probably is not being kept locked up, but it is unfair on the animal, as the moron who brought it has probably no clue on how to propaly care for it, and as for the person selling the unlisenced, and no doubt ellegally smuggled, snakes, they need to be tracked down and stopped. problem with this country is things are to easy to get in and out without being noticed!


Yes, I agree something does need to be done, but how on earth could they? Without demanding access to every property in the UK without warning how on earth are the authoritys going to know who is keeping venomous snakes illegally?

Most snakes don't need paperwork to be brought into the country through Europe (unless they're CITES), there's no quarantine on them either. 




knighty said:


> i know i am picking on snakes here a bit, and i apologise for that, dont have anything against them just think it is dangerous to have a venomous one in your home, can do the same damage as a gun(DEATH) but i cant own one of them!
> 
> i have nothing against keeping DWAs i just think they should be left to TRAINED people, with a house far from me.
> 
> I dont mean to wind up or irritate any one, but this is a forum and im allowed my opinion, or whats the point:hmm:


You could own a gun if you had a license! :razz: Although - I'd say owning a venomous snake is less dangerous to the general public than a gun, how often do you hear of random shootings? How often do you hear of a rampaging venomous snake? Lol.

This is a forum yes, but opinons, hmmmm I don't know if you're entitled to one of them ... :Na_Na_Na_Na: (that was a joke btw!)


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

its the opinions of those like knightys that cause and will continue to cause further restrictions on pet keeping and other rights to be restricted or demolished.

Total shame that those within our comunity still have such short sighted and narrow views on it.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> its the opinions of those like knightys that cause and will continue to cause further restrictions on pet keeping and other rights to be restricted or demolished.
> 
> Total shame that those within our comunity still have such short sighted and narrow views on it.



you are just picking arguments now!

i have no problems with the keeping of DWAs just would not want one next door to my young family.

i am by far narrow minded, and would not want a restriction put in place at all.

people can only see there point! a guy on a thred in this setion came under fire for wanting to own a komodo dragon. if you keep snakes you will put up a fight toprotect your rights, but to aim insults at a person, and call them narrow minded without even knowing them from adam just because your opinion differs is what gives forums a bad name.

if this is the reaction you get from expressing your views , it does not give you much enthusiasm to post in the future.

if people do not like what views they get, they should think before they post a topic.

like i said i am not saying anything about bans or any thing like that, just saying i would not want one next door to me!

ask your local residents there opinion, bet im not the only one that is not keen on the idea!


I apologise to those of you that are simply expressing your views, the same as me, this post is for the people that are more narrow minded than me.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm not narrow minded, just trying to explain to you that venomous keepers don't keep their venomous snakes in the same way someone would keep a corn snake. 

You probably wouldn't even know if your neighbour was keeping venomous snakes anyway!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Great lengths are taken to make sure "the Keeper, and the public" are protected...

The keepers are usually well trained, and the room is escape proof...When ive seen Hot Rooms, i wouldnt even know they are there, until sombody told me...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

sorry dude i didnt mean it personally and not got anything to argue about, what i said above is fair in my opinion.

By saying "i dont have a problem with it i just wouldnt want it next door to me" is in my opinion terrible.

"nothing against black people but dont want them living in our neighbourhood" comes to mind... [or more recently gays for instance]
I see it as...if you get a license you can keep dwa... anyone who beyond that doesnt want "those" next door to them are the people who I worry about dreadfully.

Your neighbours may not want anyone with a "slimey snake or scary lizard" next to them at all.... but those people simply are out of order, judgmental, uneducated, or snobs.. one or the other, I cant think what else comes into it.

Agannothing ainst you, its the same with "oh the family who just moved in next door are...SMOKERS OMG"

Within legalities people should accept people for what and who they are and thats just my view on it, again honestly no offence its just my political and moral view on it.

whinges ruin society.


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

The owner of the property needs to give permission if the applicant doesn't own the house.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> By saying "i dont have a problem with it i just wouldnt want it next door to me" is in my opinion terrible.



i cant see the problem with that, i have given my reasons for why i would not like it next door, and to compare it to blacks and gays is a different story all together. a black person or a gay person is not venemous, an instictive hunter or able to fit under my floor boards, and plus the fact they do not come under the catagory DWA!

every one has things they would not like next door but still have an interest in, bet most of you go to pubs or clubs, resturants, cinema..... but ask yourself this would you be happy if was next door.............

I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THE FACT I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH BLACKS OR GAYS, THEESE ARE UNFORTUNATELY THE EXAMPLES BROUGHT UP


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

I also have no issues with blacks or gays... well....not as a general rule anyway...defo not gay people...had a few moments where i thought "bloody black teens are arseholes" but only when surounded by a dozen or so of them being all starty 

I do understand why you wouldnt want a dwa next door, cos you dont trust that the procedures met are good enough for your own familys safety and well being...for this reason you would be within your rights to object to a license being issued... thankfully for anyone who did happen to live next door to you and wanted a dwa... you have no say in the matter and as long as they meet the requirements they should get a license.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Couple of observations - contrary to the view of knighty, it is easier to get hold of an illegal firearm than it is to get hold of a DWA animal without a licence. Regarding dogs, I have yet to come across a dog that is trained to attack people (I can quantify that as my profession brings me into contact with this type of thing). And the "its fine but not in my back yard" mentality is appalling. I would have no issue whatsoever with my neighbour keeping DWA's, as I have every confidence in the licencing system. Regarding illegal collections of DWA's, if you came across one, then contact the local council or police who will be able to deal with it. Basically, all the animals are seized, the offender fined, and banned from keeping animals.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

ian14 said:


> Couple of observations - contrary to the view of knighty, it is easier to get hold of an illegal firearm than it is to get hold of a DWA animal without a licence. Regarding dogs, I have yet to come across a dog that is trained to attack people (I can quantify that as my profession brings me into contact with this type of thing). And the "its fine but not in my back yard" mentality is appalling. I would have no issue whatsoever with my neighbour keeping DWA's, as I have every confidence in the licencing system. Regarding illegal collections of DWA's, if you came across one, then contact the local council or police who will be able to deal with it. Basically, all the animals are seized, the offender fined, and banned from keeping animals.


sorry but that's not true, I know of at least three places within reasonable driving distance of me (2 hours and under) that will sell me DWA snakes without a licence. Yeah true if I ever looked into it I could get a gun just as easily (not my thing so I have no idea who easy or hard it would be...but I do know it is really quite easy to get DWA snakes without a licence.

An example:

regardless of places in the UK that do it I wonder how many people who drove there and back got stopped and searched by customs after hamm.?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mason, pm'd you this.

I also know exactly how DWA are brought in illegally, along with illegal CITES imports.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

You don't need a DWAL to buy a venomous snake in europe, and you don't need a DWAL to transport them either, so technically not illegal. It's only illegal to keep them!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

glidergirl said:


> You don't need a DWAL to buy a venomous snake in europe, and you don't need a DWAL to transport them either, so technically not illegal. It's only illegal to keep them!


So anyone could buy one from a Show, like Hamm.... And keep it, but if they got found out....there screwed?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

It is illegal. It is an offence to sell a DWA species unless to a licenced person. It is illegal to possess them unless you hold a DWA, pet traders, or zoo operators licence, so as soon as you enter the UK, you will be committing offences. Dealing with this is part of my job, I do know what I am talking about.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

*first thing ian there is nothing wrong with my mentality, and you can take comments like that and stick them.......*

i did not say dogs are trained to attack people, however know of a few gaurd dogs that arnt very friendly, they are trained to fight though, and if you dont know that you obviously dont know your job... whatever that is.

_"It is such a shame that staffy's have a bad rep. They are lovely family pets, they only go bad if they are taught that aggression" one of your posts....._
 
sounds like if you can go europe and by a DWA with no lisence it is a damn site easier than getting an illegal gun..... makes me wonder if any illegal hots came back from ham..... o and by the way i never said a DWA was easier to get hold of than a gun!


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

In my opinion any of you guys who know where you can buy dwa animals illegally and dont put a stop to it let alone partake in it...well... I wouldnt give you the time of day.

Licences are there for a reason [and is why i feel strongly that if you get one...end of] and if you cannot respect that then you are no better than a common drug dealer and other wanabee gangster.

fair enough at soem point, maybe already..certain restrictions are unfair or stupid and at soem point rising up to fight the man may be a plan... but selling dwa to those without a license when a license can be gotten easily enough if you do what you ar emeant to do...is disgusting.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

ian14 said:


> It is illegal. It is an offence to sell a DWA species unless to a licenced person. It is illegal to possess them unless you hold a DWA, pet traders, or zoo operators licence, so as soon as you enter the UK, you will be committing offences. Dealing with this is part of my job, I do know what I am talking about.


Those selling venomous snakes are NOT obliged to ask to see the license, how many car sales people ask to see your driving license to check you have one before selling you a car? It's illegal to BUY a venomous snake without a license, but not to sell one! I know it's bloody ridiculous!!!

Dean - what exactly can we do about the European shows? We can't keep a tally on every British person there to check what they buy and what they bring back. It is disgusting that people sell to those without license, and in fact we've actually refused to sell to someone WITH a license because we felt (and was proved right) that he was a liability!! We always ask to see a copy of the license and we also photocopy it too, then inform the council etc.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

glidergirl said:


> Those selling venomous snakes are NOT obliged to ask to see the license, how many car sales people ask to see your driving license to check you have one before selling you a car? It's illegal to BUY a venomous snake without a license, but not to sell one! I know it's bloody ridiculous!!!
> 
> Dean - what exactly can we do about the European shows? We can't keep a tally on every British person there to check what they buy and what they bring back. It is disgusting that people sell to those without license, and in fact we've actually refused to sell to someone WITH a license because we felt (and was proved right) that he was a liability!! We always ask to see a copy of the license and we also photocopy it too, then inform the council etc.


 
Did you get my PM?


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

glidergirl said:


> Those selling venomous snakes are NOT obliged to ask to see the license, how many car sales people ask to see your driving license to check you have one before selling you a car? It's illegal to BUY a venomous snake without a license, but not to sell one! I know it's bloody ridiculous!!!
> 
> Dean - what exactly can we do about the European shows? We can't keep a tally on every British person there to check what they buy and what they bring back. It is disgusting that people sell to those without license, and in fact we've actually refused to sell to someone WITH a license because we felt (and was proved right) that he was a liability!! We always ask to see a copy of the license and we also photocopy it too, then inform the council etc.


i dont know or think its anyone heres place to do anything abotu the european shows... but those here in this country selling dwa to unlicensed keepers should be reported to whoever they can be reported to.
Why sell to soemone without a licesnse? thats what i dont get... doesnt say much for the buyer either.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Information about illegal DWA collections can be passed directly to the council for the area, or to the police.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> i dont know or think its anyone heres place to do anything abotu the european shows... but those here in this country selling dwa to unlicensed keepers should be reported to whoever they can be reported to.
> Why sell to soemone without a licesnse? thats what i dont get... doesnt say much for the buyer either.


Thats crazy, thats the same as my coment about ok for hots just not next door to me.....

you cant slate my view then have a similar one yourself.....

so your saying its ok to do ellegal trades in europe just noy in the uk, out of sit out of mind yeah......

interested to here back from you on this after all the slating and insults i got....


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

no dude, i thought glidergirl was talking about things that are legal in europe and not here causing probs when us brits go over to europe and bring things back...as in legal where bought..illegal or restricted here in the uk... i still think this is what she meant..


I didnt say illegal activities in other countries are ok.
Do i come across as someone with views liek that?
or is it that soem of you just want me to say soemthing stupid so you can have a go?
a bit of thought before jumping in might be an idea.
BUT as it happens... im more interested in THIS country than others.. and if i had to pick a cause to fight it would start at home in the uk of course.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

*ok dude.... sorry my bad*​ 


:bash::whip::censor::war::banghead::surrender::2wallbang:


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