# Help my green pacman doesnt want to eat crickets anymore



## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

My pacman frog's staple diet is crickets then he gets the odd earth worm and horned worm once per week.

Lately he has not been wanting to eat any crickets, he completely ignores them.

He is still a juvenile so he needs to eat almost every day but lately he keeps hidden under the substrate and is not interested in eating. I tried giving him a horned worm and he ate it fast without hesitation, but ignored the crickets.

The only difference with these crickets is that I have had them a long time, so their box is a little dirty, is it possible he doesn't like the smell?

Normally I don't have them very long but since he has not been eating them they are living much longer than usual and making a mess with their droppings

I thought maybe he was sick and didn't want to eat but he went after that horned worm no problem and gulped it down. Is it possible for them to get sick of a certain kind of food?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Im not sure if they can get bored of them, but i've had a couple that just plain don't like them for some reason! 

How are you feeding him? It's possible one has bitten him and put him off if you're just popping them into his tank and leaving him to it. With crickets I tend to just dig them up and try to tong feed them so they don't bite, with ones that wont tong feed I give them things that don't bite, like roaches or locusts and just leave them in with them.

Also how old is he? I've found once they get to about 6 months old they don't want to eat every day any more. To be honest, earthworms would make a better staple than crickets so if you can get him to eat more of those, I wouldn't worry too much. 

Depending where you are as well, he might be starting to fast for winter.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

I usually leave them in his enclosure and take them out after an hour or so if he hasn't eaten them.

I rarely leave them in his enclosure over night. I suppose it possible one has bitten him but I have not seen it.

I am not sure of his exact age, I have had him for a month and when I got him he was about the size of Canadian toonie. He is a bit bigger now. I live in Canada if that makes any difference.

I don't mind feeding him earth worms but in his cage they get covered with substrate and he eats it all. I have tried feeding him in a feeder tank but he seems too stressed and doesn't want to eat when i put him there.

He seems to love horned worms though.

I thought if he was sick he wouldn't eat at all but he goes after those horned worms like no tomorrow.

He hasn't pooped in almost two weeks. When i first got him he didn't poop for two weeks then he pooped every few days. This all seemed to happen when i fed him an earth worm and he ingested a bunch of substrate. he hasnt pooped since but still eats the worms.

I have given him 2 -3 honey baths and still no poop. I am worried he might be impacted but then why he would still go for the huge horn worms if he is impacted??? I don't feel any lumps in his side either.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about impaction if you are keeping him warm enough, all of my guys regularly take some soil in with their food...on the odd occasion they'll grab an entire mouthful of it! lol When they get older they'll naturally poo less so again I wouldn't worry too much, it's been over a month for one of mine now  If you're feeding worms try drying them off a little first, this will help stop so much substrate sticking to them just in case, although yeah you're right, if he was ill he wouldn't be eating as well as he is.

As long as he still has an appetite I think it's just one of those annoying things they sometimes do to worry us. If you can get hold of something you can leave in with him over night it might be worth having a go, it could be something as simple as being a little unhappy about being taken out for baths and trying to feed in another box thats put him off eating all but the best bits you're offering.

At that size though i'd say just keep feeding him what he will eat, when he's a bit bigger maybe try again with crickets. My old albino was put off crickets as a baby because some crawled over him...5 years on he still wouldn't eat the damn things lol! So i'd try other feeders for now.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks for the replies.

An unrelated question. How often should I change the substrate?

Right now I am using coco fiber and I have my little guy in what I believe is a 15 Gallon or 20 Gallon tank. Its pretty big for him and I stir and mix the substrate once every 1 -2 weeks.

When should I change it completely?

So far he has been in there for about a month.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

You're welcome 

I usually do a full clean every other month, although being that small in a larger tank you could probably get away with a little longer. When he's a bit bigger it'll need doing more frequently though. I've got springtails, woodlice etc living in my tanks so they break down a lot of the waste.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

are you keeping the frog warm enough high 70s to low 80s during the day? because it's a growing juvenile, you need to up the size in crickets to keep him interested. people usually go for between the eyes or half the size of the frog


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Drayvan said:


> You're welcome
> 
> I usually do a full clean every other month, although being that small in a larger tank you could probably get away with a little longer. When he's a bit bigger it'll need doing more frequently though. I've got springtails, woodlice etc living in my tanks so they break down a lot of the waste.



Ok thanks!!


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> are you keeping the frog warm enough high 70s to low 80s during the day? because it's a growing juvenile, you need to up the size in crickets to keep him interested. people usually go for between the eyes or half the size of the frog



The temps are usually 77 to 81 during the day.

I got him bigger crickets because he was having a hard time getting the smaller ones as he grew but he doesn't seem to care of the size at the moment.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

How are you heating his enclosure and what do you use to measure the temperature? A lot of people use heat mats on the side but doesn't work well, if this is your method of heating, I'll explain further. Try earthworms and if he's big enough pinkie mice but they should only be fed twice a month at most.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> How are you heating his enclosure and what do you use to measure the temperature? A lot of people use heat mats on the side but doesn't work well, if this is your method of heating, I'll explain further. Try earthworms and if he's big enough pinkie mice but they should only be fed twice a month at most.



I am using a heat pad under the tank connected to a thermostat with the probe deep in the substrate close to the heat pad.

I also have a night 40w bulb on the top for extra heating when needed. I am using digital thermometer with the probe very close to the enclosure floor.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

Yeah, that's ideal. You could try feeding at night when he's most active and with tongs if you haven't already


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> Yeah, that's ideal. You could try feeding at night when he's most active and with tongs if you haven't already


I will try that, if he ever comes out. He seems to stay hidden most of the time. I un dig him every 3 -4 days to feed him.

Should I just leave him and let him come out on his own??

I don't know how long he is going to stay under, hes young so he needs to eat almost every day right?


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

They're nocturnal so mostly come out of their burrows at night to feed although some feed during th day. I wouldn't dig him up, that'll probably stress him out. Just make sure the temperature and humidity are correct and he'll come out at night. Yeah usually every 1-2 days then start cutting down eventually to a week or so. Another thing to consider would be if his day and night cycle is bad. They need about 12 hours light 12 hours darkness, usually the room is bright enough for them but if not use some lighting on a timer but not UVB


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> They're nocturnal so mostly come out of their burrows at night to feed although some feed during th day. I wouldn't dig him up, that'll probably stress him out. Just make sure the temperature and humidity are correct and he'll come out at night. Yeah usually every 1-2 days then start cutting down eventually to a week or so. Another thing to consider would be if his day and night cycle is bad. They need about 12 hours light 12 hours darkness, usually the room is bright enough for them but if not use some lighting on a timer but not UVB


The temp and humidity are good. He used to come out at night but doesn't seem to do it anymore lately. Thats why I have had to dig him up, because if I don't, I don't know how long he will stay under without eating since he needs to feed almost every day.

My room is fairly bright during the day, and I close the curtains in the evening to give him 12 hours of darkness. I have had this setup since I got him and he was doing fine at first. 

He has been under all of yesterday. I am going to leave him be till maybe this Sunday. I hope he will come out by then so I can try to feed him.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

How long has this been going on for? Can you take a pic of your set up?


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> How long has this been going on for? Can you take a pic of your set up?



I have had him for a little over a month now. First 3 weeks he was pretty consistent with coming out at night. If he ate a lot the previous day he would dig himself in for a day then come out the next night.

Hes been acting a bit off for the last two weeks or so. He stays under much longer now so I have had to dig him up to feed him. He hasn't taken a dump in almost two weeks also.

I don't have any pictures at the moment but below is a you tube video of him eating a horned worm and you can see his setup a bit. I will take a better picture when I get home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-EZIBdu1XE


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

Housing looks fine but I see a thermometer gauge, this will work fine for measuring your light temperature but heat mats don't heat the air, just the substrate and animal so need a digital one with probe on the heat mat. There doesn't seem to be a lot of cover, most of the time Pacmans will be fine without and make their on in the substrate but consider getting an Exo terra fake boston fern plant, piece of cork bark or turtle hut. I've heard that they don't burrow down completely when there's a thin layer off moss on top of the soil but you must feed by tongs as impaction risks are higher. It could just be that he's still adjusting though, it took a while for my frog to settle in completely. If he starts losing weight feed on wax worms and pinkies to put builk him up. But yeah, try feeding at night and if you do dig him up it will be better doing it at night rather than the day when he's trying to rest


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> Housing looks fine but I see a thermometer gauge, this will work fine for measuring your light temperature but heat mats don't heat the air, just the substrate and animal so need a digital one with probe on the heat mat. There doesn't seem to be a lot of cover, most of the time Pacmans will be fine without and make their on in the substrate but consider getting an Exo terra fake boston fern plant, piece of cork bark or turtle hut. I've heard that they don't burrow down completely when there's a thin layer off moss on top of the soil but you must feed by tongs as impaction risks are higher. It could just be that he's still adjusting though, it took a while for my frog to settle in completely. If he starts losing weight feed on wax worms and pinkies to put builk him up. But yeah, try feeding at night and if you do dig him up it will be better doing it at night rather than the day when he's trying to rest



Its hard to see the full setup from the video but on the other side of the enclosure there is a fake log and a plant you cant see. Also there is a thermostat with built in thermometer with the probe in the substrate but you cant see it either. When I take a picture you will see the full setup.

Thanks for the tips, so far he doesent seem like he has lost weight but I will try feeding him some pinkies and horned worms when he comes back up.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

No bother, keep us updated


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

I think my poor frog is impacted, probably why he doesn't want to eat crickets any more.

I just found that he threw up the horned worm he ate a few days ago.

That is a major sign of impaction isn't it?

What should I do? Give him another soak??


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

Not really but check if both sides are even, if there's any bulges on the side that are hard then it could be. Their poos are also hard to see in the coir, take him out and stir it up to find any lumps that will be poos. Lukewarm water with honey will help him poo if he is having problems.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> Not really but check if both sides are even, if there's any bulges on the side that are hard then it could be. Their poos are also hard to see in the coir, take him out and stir it up to find any lumps that will be poos. Lukewarm water with honey will help him poo if he is having problems.



I mixed all his substrate and sifted through it and cant find any poo. He doesn't want to eat anything now, not even horned worms. I have tried everything and he wont eat anything. He doesn't seem to have any hard bulges on his side, but when he lets out his water he looks under weight, his head his bigger than his body now.

All he wants to do is dig and hide under the substrate, I don't know whats wrong with him.

Like I said this all started once he ate that night crawler that was covered in substrate, he started to eat less and has not gone poo, now he is throwing up what little he ate and wont eat at all.

i have already given him several honey baths with no luck.. I don't know what else to try, but I cant see him lasting too long without food.

Should I try to force feed him?? it will be hard because he is so small still and always wants to jump out of my hand.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

I wouldn't recommend force feeding him, it will probably stress him out and not help. If the temperatures in your area or house are on the cold side, you could try another form of heating, as heat mats don't raise the ambient temperature. an infrared lamp could be used day and night but may kill your humidity depending on how high a wattage you'll need to get temperatures right and how big your tank is. have you tried pinkies yet? if he's losing weight it'll really help put it back on and probably the best feeding reaction i get is with them. just don't feed them too often.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

you said your tank was a 15-20 gallon, right? i've heard that some people recommend getting a smaller tank, that bigger ones may stress the frog or make it harder to find prey. i didn't have this problem but you could consider using a large plastic faunarium or 5-10 gallon tank.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> I wouldn't recommend force feeding him, it will probably stress him out and not help. If the temperatures in your area or house are on the cold side, you could try another form of heating, as heat mats don't raise the ambient temperature. an infrared lamp could be used day and night but may kill your humidity depending on how high a wattage you'll need to get temperatures right and how big your tank is. have you tried pinkies yet? if he's losing weight it'll really help put it back on and probably the best feeding reaction i get is with them. just don't feed them too often.


The temps are good, no problem there. I moved him to a little tub similar to what he was in the petstore for now. I haven't tried pinkies yet. We only get them frozen here there are no live ones.

I will try one and see. i did try crickets in his tub and again he just ignored them.

I don't think he is going to make it


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

jasonm96 said:


> you said your tank was a 15-20 gallon, right? i've heard that some people recommend getting a smaller tank, that bigger ones may stress the frog or make it harder to find prey. i didn't have this problem but you could consider using a large plastic faunarium or 5-10 gallon tank.



He was doing fine in his current setup for over 3 weeks so I dont think thats the case, but I moved him to a small tub anyway for now.


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## jasonm96 (Aug 30, 2015)

frozen are fine, just thaw them out and feed them to him by tongs. i think you shouldn't worry too much, you getting stressed will most likely have you bothering your frog and stressing him out too. if you're doing everything right, then maybe the problems lies with the frog or how it has been kept before you got it. the pet shop i got mine from kept the frog and the wrong temperatures and only fed him only 2 times a week as a baby, now my frogs growth is stunted and not exactly 100% healthy. just make sure the temps are 78-82 and humidity ideally 80%, change the water dish every day and substrate change every 2 weeks, remember any water you use must be dechlorinated. if the frog still isn't feeding after a week, you can try force feeding it as a last resort. i think you use a teaspoon to do it but i'm not sure how exactly, there's a good book by philippe de vosjoli concentrated on horned frogs, i recommend purchasing it will help you deal with this.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry to hear hes getting worse  he looks very healthy in the video. Im afraid ive not had one vomit before so im not sure what to suggest. I would try not to bother him too much in case it is stress thats causing him to not eat, although thats easier said than done when trying to get them to eat. Do you have an exotics vet that you could phone for advice? 

Is he captive bred? Could possibly be worms.. wild caught tend to almost always have them, crickrts have been know to carry pinworm too.

Unfortunately they have such a large amount of babies because a few of the weaker ones just dont make it, which could be the case here, occasionally they will go downhill and pass away for no real reason.

If you do force feed I would personally liquidise some worms and squirt some into his mouth via syringe, seeing as he is vomiting up whole food, it will be easier than trying to force whole bugs too. Try not to worry too much about poo, if hes not eating much it will take longer to go, could be another month before you see any. I bought one in february and hes only gone twice! 

Hope he starts picking up for you, as long as hes warm enough and kept clean and as stress free as possible there's not too much else you can do that I can think of, other than getting advice from a vet. They may be able to tube feed him for you if necessary and show you how.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm hoping no news is good news..hows the little guy doing now? : victory:


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Drayvan said:


> I'm hoping no news is good news..hows the little guy doing now? : victory:



He is doing a bit better, he went poop but still not eating, I think he is coming around slowly.

Last night he was completely under the substrate and as I was sleeping through out the night, a few times I heard a strange chirp sound coming from him. 

I went to check and he was still underground. I heard his chirp at least 3 times through out the night, I have no idea what that is about, he has not done this before...


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

That's good to hear  if he's pooping you can rule out impaction! 

Have you tried rubbing the food along his mouth down to his elbow? I can't remember if I've asked before. Usually with my lot that will make them snap at it! 

The chirp could be him rubbing his legs on the bottom of the tank as he's digging, that normally sounds a little like when you rub your finger on some glass when it's got condensation on it. Their croaking sounds a bit like a duck, although the pitch seems to vary, one of mine is quite high pitched so it could be that he's looking for a girlfriend, that shouldn't put him off eating so much though :/ but hopefully now he's pooped he will feel hungry soon.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Drayvan said:


> That's good to hear  if he's pooping you can rule out impaction!
> 
> Have you tried rubbing the food along his mouth down to his elbow? I can't remember if I've asked before. Usually with my lot that will make them snap at it!
> 
> The chirp could be him rubbing his legs on the bottom of the tank as he's digging, that normally sounds a little like when you rub your finger on some glass when it's got condensation on it. Their croaking sounds a bit like a duck, although the pitch seems to vary, one of mine is quite high pitched so it could be that he's looking for a girlfriend, that shouldn't put him off eating so much though :/ but hopefully now he's pooped he will feel hungry soon.


I tried rubbing the food on his lips and no go. May have to resort to force feeding soon.

On an unrelated questions. Is it normal for them to have a very light pink lower legs on the underside?

I don't see any sores and they are not bright pink, just very light pink, I am wondering if he has red leg disease?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

A little bit of pink is fairly normal, although if you haven't already maybe try changing the substrate 'just in case' as red leg is a bacterial thing, so it could simply be that he's sat in one spot too long and bacteria from his pee has built up.

Unless he's losing condition i'd hold off on force feeding as it's pretty stressful for them (and us!) Is he still quite plump? It's so frustrating when they don't eat, it's hard to know what to do for the best!


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

It can take a long time for them to snap at the food whilst rubbing it on their mouth. It used to take me sometimes 20mins to get my baby C. Cornuta eating. It's almost like you have to annoy them to eat. Also try lancefish. That's how I got my little un feeding.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Another thing to remember is that it is quite normal for them to stop eating for a while- in the wild they have a resting season (usually the dry season) when they don't eat for months on end, only starting again when the rains come. In our vivaria, they don't get the normal seasonal changes, so their body clock sometimes gets confused. If he is not losing a lot of weight, I wouldn't worry too much.


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Drayvan said:


> A little bit of pink is fairly normal, although if you haven't already maybe try changing the substrate 'just in case' as red leg is a bacterial thing, so it could simply be that he's sat in one spot too long and bacteria from his pee has built up.
> 
> Unless he's losing condition i'd hold off on force feeding as it's pretty stressful for them (and us!) Is he still quite plump? It's so frustrating when they don't eat, it's hard to know what to do for the best!


 He is starting to eat again. I managed to tong feed him a cricket and some pacman frog food yay!.

However sometimes he is still making that weird sound at night when hidden under the substrate. I am almost positive its not him rubbing on the glass. It sounds kind of like a squeak/bark. I have seen videos of them croaking and it doesn't really sound like that. I am not sure what's up with him. Maybe he is having a nightmare??? lol


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Basin79 said:


> It can take a long time for them to snap at the food whilst rubbing it on their mouth. It used to take me sometimes 20mins to get my baby C. Cornuta eating. It's almost like you have to annoy them to eat. Also try lancefish. That's how I got my little un feeding.


 
Thanks I will try the fish idea! He is starting to eat a bit now yay!


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## Sajuuk khar (Aug 19, 2015)

Ron Magpie said:


> Another thing to remember is that it is quite normal for them to stop eating for a while- in the wild they have a resting season (usually the dry season) when they don't eat for months on end, only starting again when the rains come. In our vivaria, they don't get the normal seasonal changes, so their body clock sometimes gets confused. If he is not losing a lot of weight, I wouldn't worry too much.


 
Ok thanks for the advice, I will keep that in mind.


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