# Breeding rats



## Demonlude (Feb 17, 2009)

Could somebody direct me to a detailed post in regards to breeding rats? I've had a quick look around, but my searching skills seem to have escaped me at the minute.

I'm basically looking to breed feeder rats for my collection, so would need details on how to house them, how to breed them, and how to cull them.

Thanks for any help / advice

Adam


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I keep mine in a rack in the shed, they are housed in 32L tubs with mesh tops and they're in 1.3 groups and there's 12 tubs in the rack.

I use half dust extracted wood-shavings and half hay for bedding and feed them on Sow and Weaner Food (pig pellets).

Just put a mature male with a mature female and they WILL do the rest themselves, I dont take the males or females out of the tubs when they're pregnant purely because I dont have the room for that many tubs and they all are fine.

I remove the babies at around 6-8 weeks old and put them into growing on cages.

When it comes to culling there are various methods such as a Co2 chamber, I use a method that when done correctly kills instantly and painlessly.

Basically I put the rat on a hard surface then put the edge of a screw driver on the back of the rats neck, push down on the screw driver and at the same time pull the rats tail.
When done right this will kill the rat instantly.

There is a thread about Co2 chambers if you do a search

Anything else you want to know?


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

markhill said:


> I keep mine in a rack in the shed, they are housed in 32L tubs with mesh tops and they're in 1.3 groups and there's 12 tubs in the rack.
> 
> I use half dust extracted wood-shavings and half hay for bedding and feed them on Sow and Weaner Food (pig pellets).
> 
> ...


hi mark whats the mesh top for?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

kingball said:


> hi mark whats the mesh top for?


good air flow, if you have lids like tubs normally come with the tubs will build up condensation and they'll also stink.


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

markhill said:


> good air flow, if you have lids like tubs normally come with the tubs will build up condensation and they'll also stink.


ahh i see thats where i went wrong then :blush:


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## daveord81 (Oct 18, 2009)

*Mesh tops*

The mesh tops is to stop the condensation and give good breathing air for the rats i'm guessing. Had to do the same with my mice due to condensation. Dave


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

daveord81 said:


> The mesh tops is to stop the condensation and give good breathing air for the rats i'm guessing. Had to do the same with my mice due to condensation. Dave


:2thumb:


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## Demonlude (Feb 17, 2009)

Brilliant reply - thanks very much Mark. I'll probably PM you with a few questions when I think about things properly - may as well ask them all at once rather than 2 every day!

Just a quick question while I'm thinking about it - you say you're using tubs - I pressume RUBS are ok and the rats won't chew through them?

I don't suppose you have any pictures of your rack that you could PM me or post on here?

Thanks again for the great reply.

Adam


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Demonlude said:


> Brilliant reply - thanks very much Mark. I'll probably PM you with a few questions when I think about things properly - may as well ask them all at once rather than 2 every day!
> 
> Just a quick question while I'm thinking about it - you say you're using tubs - I pressume RUBS are ok and the rats won't chew through them?
> 
> ...


RUBs are ok but I use a cheaper alternative, the rats have never chewed through them but the Multi's do.

I dont have any pics on my laptop but I can take some and post them tomorrow.


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## Demonlude (Feb 17, 2009)

markhill said:


> RUBs are ok but I use a cheaper alternative, the rats have never chewed through them but the Multi's do.
> 
> I dont have any pics on my laptop but I can take some and post them tomorrow.


Thanks Mark. There's no rush, but pictures would be good if you get chance. 

Are you breeding in the house, garage or shed?


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## Daisyy (Jan 15, 2010)

I have nothing against the culling rats and feeding them, because a snakes got to eat:lol2: But I don't know how you do it! They are just so cute at that age :blush:

Good luck with the breeding, though I'd watch out for RUB's because my rats chewed through them when I was transporting them home(two hour trip)


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Demonlude said:


> Thanks Mark. There's no rush, but pictures would be good if you get chance.
> 
> Are you breeding in the house, garage or shed?


I keep them in my shed, atm I have a small brick shed but I'm getting an 8x10 wooden one in the new year.

Here's some pics, excuse the mess they need cleaning:blush:


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## cazcolecarter (Jan 11, 2010)

markhill said:


> I keep them in my shed, atm I have a small brick shed but I'm getting an 8x10 wooden one in the new year.
> 
> Here's some pics, excuse the mess they need cleaning:blush:


 You need deeper RUB's, theose aren't deep enough for your rats to stand on their hind legs. They need to be able to stretch properly


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

cazcolecarter said:


> You need deeper RUB's, theose aren't deep enough for your rats to stand on their hind legs. They need to be able to stretch properly


the tubs are just as deep as the Freedom Breeder Rodent Rack tubs and I've been using them for nearly two years with no problems at all.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Top tip, i find that there is the odd female that will eat her babies, what i do is look at her and if shes ready to blow then ill check back the next day and she should have her babies, if your back in time then move the rat pups into another females litter and she will take them as her own : victory:

I seperate the females, purley due to i keep my rats in groups of 3 in 18l rubs. and the babies wouldnt fit in well, i say in groups of 3, theres only really 1 female in there at any one time with the male.

in the winter, give them a pair of old socks or an old teashirt or something, they use it as extra bedding and it keeps them warm.

NEVER keep 2 males together, sadly it ends with just one being alive. 

make sure the rats dont chew out, double check all holes and chew points.

If your keeping the rats outside then make sure you swap some bubble wrap around the water bottles, they may freeze, i also throw an old curtain round the racks to keep them warm, in a shed. the more the better as more rats means more warmth.

Hope this helps. : victory:


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Also, dont use a rodent food that is hard to get, because if they sell out or you cant get it then its bad, because i find that any other food given to them after that will give them the shits, they dont take well to sudden change of food, iin my exsperience.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

cazcolecarter said:


> You need deeper RUB's, theose aren't deep enough for your rats to stand on their hind legs. They need to be able to stretch properly


This is the reason why I would never post phots of my own collections, rat breeding rooms etc as there are always people whom critisize without forthought or experiance

. I for one have never had any of my rats complain of not being able to fully stand on their hind legs in over 20 years. Though many are now living in 84 litre RUBS.

I seperate the females from their male when they give birth, this gives them peace from trying to be mated with every five minutes by the male.

I perosnally give a female 2 months off after a litter, as this prolongs their life span and makes for a much healtheir mommy and babies.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

bikenut said:


> I perosnally give a female 2 months off after a litter, as this prolongs their life span and makes for a much healtheir mommy and babies.


I do not do this, i renew my rats every 5 months maybe abit longer. But i suppose if you want to keep the rats breeding for aslong as possible then this is a good idea.


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

I mostly do it as these rats become very dear pets and not just a food factory (so to speak.). Ido get rather attached to the older girls and keep them in their own bedroom (the retirment room). 

They do make for fantasticly tame pets, though the males are much more "mellowed out" than the females. I only produce around 5-6 litters per female then Its the retirment room for them or they are adopted through ads in the local papers.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

bikenut said:


> I mostly do it as these rats become very dear pets and not just a food factory (so to speak.). Ido get rather attached to the older girls and keep them in their own bedroom (the retirment room).
> 
> They do make for fantasticly tame pets, though the males are much more "mellowed out" than the females. I only produce around 5-6 litters per female then Its the retirment room for them or they are adopted through ads in the local papers.


Not for me, i breed them. then feed them. Not a shame because that is why i keep them, not as pets but for breeding food and to be food.

They may make good pets but i dont want to keep them as pets. Large rats are great food for many of my snakes :2thumb:


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## bikenut (Nov 29, 2010)

I apologise if my message was misleading, the rats are first and foremost for food and not intentional pets, but after serving my snakes needs for nearly 2 years, I owe them the last quarter or so of life to be as good as possible, though there are a few pensioner females floating around the retirment room, no idea on the oldest ones age but she is ancient!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

It's nice to see a feeder breeder who also appreciates their rats 'work' for them.

I did this when I bred to feed just my few snakes, I now don't have snakes, I kept as pets and fed a few as well. All my rats were kept in big cages or the huge RUBS when having babies.

I think diffferently for pets or feeder breeders to be honest.

It's all too easy to get attached if you think of feeder rats as pets!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

southpython said:


> Top tip, i find that there is the odd female that will eat her babies, what i do is look at her and if shes ready to blow then ill check back the next day and she should have her babies, if your back in time then move the rat pups into another females litter and she will take them as her own : victory:
> 
> I seperate the females, purley due to i keep my rats in groups of 3 in 18l rubs. and the babies wouldnt fit in well, i say in groups of 3, theres only really 1 female in there at any one time with the male.
> 
> ...


Posts like this make me incredibly sad. 

3 rats in an 18L tub is neglect. In order to live happily and humanely, they need room to get up, to climb, and a good circulation of air. I've nothing against feeder breeders sticking to affordable housing, but 18L isnt even big enough for babies. I wouldn't keep mice in something that small.

Rat mums dont normally eat their babies. That is mice. If your rats are eating their babies (or each other, in the case of males), it's because they are stressed in their poor conditions. My males live very happily in groups, given space to move around!

I'm not a feeder breeder, and I am a hypocrite as my mice come from the pet shop already frozen, but when it comes to advice about breeding rats - yours is a good advert for how not to do it. No wonder most feeder animals are undersized and have matchstick tails and injuries, kept in substandard conditions.

To the OP, you should aim to have one cage of girls, and one cage of boys. Decent sized cages, with hammocks, toys, ropes etc. When you want a litter - pop a female in a nursing tank/cage (zoozone, or Mary cage) with a male - leave them for a week and then you can either pop both back in their groups (if you know a rough due date), or leave mum in the nursery cage until she's had her babies.

If you plan to keep them longer than 4-5 weeks, you'll need to seperate them into groups of different sexes. Girls can stay in with mum til they're dispatched or rehomed. 

If you want any further tips, feel free to pm me. Diet needs to be altered for a nursing mum and babies also, happy to help give advice where I can.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Posts like this make me incredibly sad.
> 
> 3 rats in an 18L tub is neglect. In order to live happily and humanely, they need room to get up, to climb, and a good circulation of air. I've nothing against feeder breeders sticking to affordable housing, but 18L isnt even big enough for babies. I wouldn't keep mice in something that small.
> 
> ...


*Yeah what advice for pet rats or mice? Damn. These are feeders. Aim isto produce the most yet keep the healthy at the same time, which is what im doing*. 

*If you would like to talk over the phone then im more than happy to do that :2thumb:*


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

saxon said:


> I think diffferently for pets or feeder breeders to be honest.
> 
> It's all too easy to get attached if you think of feeder rats as pets!


Agreed, sums up the numpty who posted 2 up. Big difference between pets and feeders.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

here is what you should be looking at









Not something like this 










Here are links to other rodent breeders, great vids.
YouTube - jkobylka's Channel

YouTube - jkobylka's Channel

YouTube - Rat Barn 1/25/08 part 1

YouTube - Rat Barn 1/25/08 part 4


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Theres another breeder who keeps abit morerats in the tubs, i think 4? Not sure.

But heres a quote from him

*We breed on a reasonable scale all of our rodents have fresh food and water and are cleaned every week.. We use the lab style cages which are within the guidlines set in the animal welfare act and if we stuck exact to the guidlines we could keep 2 more females per cage. The large cages are nice looking etc but not commercially viable for us... *




Heres another quote from a top guy who breeds rodents. I think you should read this

*With repsect the RSPCA would NEVER be happy with any aspect of the exotic pet trade and if they felt that they could destroy the trade via the food production side, then they would (and in fact I'm sure that route has been tried before).

Would you be happy paying £8+ per rat to feed your snakes? because that would be the kind of figure that would be needed if you wanted all your rats reared in pet rat type cages.

I obviously spend hours with my rats, yes I agree that they are intelligent animals but I would also say that mine show no signs of stress from boredom etc. They do not pace up and down or rub their noses trying to escape. They spend most of their time grooming themselves or each other.

Sure, if you want pet rats then buy the biggest most elaborate cage you can, take the rat out and teach it tricks etc but just because that's how you want to keep it doesn't mean the more simplistic approach is wrong either







* 



Oh and your buying your rats frozen, i assure you that youir frozen rats come from a lab breeding cage. if your rats from the petshop went upto £9 each would you be happy? No you wouldnt, youd be on here opening that thing of yours and trying to put a silly point accross.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh and i see you keep your snakes in tubs, many people wouldnt agree to that either. They would say "small tubs, not giving the snakes enough room to stretch out ect...".

I also spoke to someone who got some "rat lovers" round to his house.

He got a rat from the lab cages, and a rat from his big pet cage.

He put them on the table and said " which ne came from the lab cage".

They both picked them up and looked around and they couldnt tell, not even a guess because they were both healthy. No difference.

: victory:


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

YouTube - The Rat Room

YouTube - Rat Barn

YouTube - Rat Barn 1/25/08 part 8

YouTube - Fat Boy's Updated Rat Barn

YouTube - rat barn.mp4

YouTube - LFF's Mouse Rack video

YouTube - New Rat Rack and Setup Update

YouTube - My Rat Room

YouTube - Rat Room 2009

YouTube - My Rats

YouTube - RAT BREEDING RACK

YouTube - Update on rat rack with auto watering system

YouTube - Update on rat rack with auto watering system

YouTube - Update on rat rack with auto watering system

YouTube - JKR Pro Tips #5 - Rodent Sizes & BP Feeding

YouTube - Rodent Room #1

YouTube - reptilegeeks.com

YouTube - Rodent Diet and Pine Bedding footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMVoT_qznrc&feature=related

:no1:



a few links
http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/feeder-forum/26945-rat-racking-pics.html

http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/feeder-forum/26947-updated-rodent-racking-2009-a.html


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

What a supprise, Rat lovin tree hugger:Na_Na_Na_Na:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/other-pets-exotics-pictures/535263-some-my-rats.html


If you feel soo strong about it then go get the laws changed! : victory:


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## ReptileRoss (Jul 28, 2010)

I do agree that £10 per rat is ridiculous. 
I have actually seen SPs setups, and they are not inhumane at all. If you keep rats as pets, that's great, I keep mice as pets in a huge cage, but you can't force your views on everyone else.


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## technomouse (Aug 13, 2009)

Not being funny or owt, but don't you think you overreacted a bit there? - maybe your set up is fine for you, but what is wrong with people trying to encourage a more 'fluffy' approach to feeder breeding? - not a lot. :blush:

ETA: that was meant for southpython


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

technomouse said:


> Not being funny or owt, but don't you think you overreacted a bit there? - maybe your set up is fine for you, but what is wrong with people trying to encourage a more 'fluffy' approach to feeder breeding? - not a lot. :blush:
> 
> ETA: that was meant for southpython


No, I need to show that what im doing isnt wrong. I dont want a bad reputation because some woman doesnt know what they should be doing. Fluffy approach is for pets, maybe slightly towards feeders but thats it, feeders arnt pets and shouldnt be treated like pets,you feed them, give them water,make sure they are healthy, give them the amount of room needed ect... I do all of that upto feeder standard. and if i went with what other rodent breeders did then i could add more into my tubs but i refuse to.

Hope you understand.


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