# When cohabiting reptiles...



## Bexzini (Oct 21, 2010)

Just out of interest to build a bit more knowledge, when cohabiting different species of lizard, would you guys consider that its best to cohabit ones that come from the same region (e.g., a tokay gecko with another south east asian lizard) or could you go for ones that require a similar environment, but don't necessarily live in similar regions? I don't intend on doing this, just want to expand my horizons and move away from the typical 'what is wrong with my beardie' discussion lol!


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

I think similar environment would be the upmost consideration followed by will one eat the other .

I think mixing species is too often dismissed without proper thought .

Herpetologists were doing this regularly in the 70's ans 80's without major traumas or disasters.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Many things in the 70's and 80's were tested with reptiles, some with good effects and some with bad.


but Yes.  has been done hun.
Obviously your not going to house a documented prey item in with a potential predator though, sometimes possibly different animals can be.

Many members have had great success in housing a water dragon and basilisk together.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

When doing mixed species enclosures I would only ever do sympatric species personally. Don't see the point of shoving things together for the hell of it.

Mind, people do it all the time with fish.


Would you like me to publish my list of 'tried and tested mixed species exhibits in zoos around the world'?


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

bothrops said:


> When doing mixed species enclosures I would only ever do sympatric species personally. Don't see the point of shoving things together for the hell of it.
> 
> Mind, people do it all the time with fish.
> 
> ...


 
That would be awesome, I was wandering when you might show up.


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

I have always put similar environmental needs as the forerunner. I have often seen this work better than a species that is recognized, ingrained into their history and instincts? I have also found that like species......ie wall walkers with other wall walkers to be more complicated and less likely to succeed. I have also seen 2 species from differing continents become very dependent on eat other. ie. the basilisks and CWD's. I have a small beardie who is very dependent on a star gazer. When I lost the star gazer the beardie refused to eat for over a month.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

1.Reptiles with Reptiles



Nilotic Crocodile with Mauremis caspica - Jerusalem Biblical Zoo
Gila Monster with Collared Lizard and Chuckwalla - Rotterdam Zoo
Philippine Sailfin Lizard with Cuora trifasiata - Rotterdam Zoo
Giant Girdled Lizard with Warren's Girdled Lizard - Rotterdam Zoo
Testudo graeca with African Spiny-Tailed Agamid - Rotterdam Zoo
Madagascan Iguana with Spider Tortoise - Rotterdam Zoo
Black Iguana with Black Chuckwalla - Rotterdam Zoo
Boa Constrictor with Double-Crested Basilisk - Costa Rica Nat. Zoo
Aldabra Giant Tortoise with Seychellen Gecko - Hannover Zoo
Green Iguana with Common Basilisk and Red-Legged Tortoise - Antwerp Zoo
Madagascan Girdle-Tailed Lizard with Radiated Tortoise - Antwerp Zoo
Amethyst Python with Carpet Python - Antwerp Zoo
Solomons Tree Skink with Green Water Dragon, Malayan Box Turtle, Tokay and Phil. Sailfin Lizard - Antwerp Zoo
African Spiny-Tailed Agamid with Girdled-Tailed Lizard, Leopard Tortoise and Mabuya - Antwerp Zoo
Mata Mata with Amazon Tree Boa - Zoo Atlanta
Arafura Seasnake with White's Tree Frog - Melbourne Zoo
King's Lizard with Pignose Turtle - Taronga Zoo
Sailfin Lizard with River Cooter, Elongate Tortoise - Taronga Zoo
Corn Snake with Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake - Taronga Zoo
Eastern Bluetongue Lizard with Cunningham Skink, Land Mullet and Blotched Bluetongue Lizard- Taronga Zoo
Freshwater Crocodile with Northern Longneck Turtle - Taronga Zoo
King's Lizard with Stump-Tailed Lizard - Aquazoo
Common Skink with Girdle-Tailed Lizard - Aquazoo
Green Tree Python with Emerald Skink (Dasia) - Aquazoo
Black Emerald Monitor Lizard with Emydura albertisi - Aquazoo
Pancake Tortoise with Platysaurus - Aquazoo
Mata Mata with Anolis sp - Aquazoo
Leopard Tortoise with Egyptian Spiny-Tailed Lizard - Aquazoo
African Spiny-Tailed Lizard with Common Agama - Aquazoo
Girdle-Tailed Lizard with Leopard Tortoise - Aquazoo
Australian Brown Water Dragon with Stump-Tailed Lizard - Reptile Zoo Moers
Pignose Turtle with Gharial and Emydura sp - Bronx Zoo
Pignose Turtle with Green Tree Monitor - Toronto Zoo
Fiji Iguana with Timor Monitor - Toronto Zoo
Tokay with Reticulated Python Toronto Zoo
Malayan Painted Turtle with False Gharial - Toronto Zoo
Green Water Dragon With Indian Star Tortoise - Toronto Zoo
Sauromalus with Petrosaurus and Sceloporus - Toronto Zoo
Dwarf Caiman with Mata Mata - Toronto Zoo
American Alligator with Alligator Snapping Turtle - Toronto Zoo
Stump-Tailed Lizard With Bearded Dragon and Eastern Bluetongue Skink - San Diego Zoo
Plumed Basilisk with Anaconda - San Diego Zoo
Crocodylus moreletii with green iguana, black iguana and Trachennys scripta ornate - Zoo Guadalajara
Crotalus atrox with Gopherus berlandieri - Zoo Guadalajara
Aldabra Tortoise with Gecko species - Reptile Zoo Iguana
Sceloporus magister with Common Leopard Lizard - Wilhelma Zoo
Green Tree Python with White's Tree Frog - Wilhelma Zoo
Murray Turtle with King's Lizard - Poznan Zoo
Common Chameleon with Radiated Tortoise - Frankfurter Zoo
Rattlesnake with Desert tortoise - Guadalajara Zoo
Shingleback Skinks with Bearded Dragons - Micke Grove Zoo
Fresh Water Crocodile with Mertens Water Monitor - Northern Territory Zoo
Blue Tongued Skink with Frill neck Lizard - Northern Territory Zoo
Galapagos Tortoise with Land and Sea Iguana (1930's) - Brookfield Zoo Chicago
Rhinoceros Iguana with Bearded Dragon - Tierpark Hagenbeck
Rhinoceros Iguana with Aldabra tortoise – Bristol Zoo
Gila monster with collared lizard – Burgers Zoo

2. Reptiles With Birds

Saltwater Crocodile with unknown birds - Singapore Zoo
Green Iguana with Toco Toucan - Honolulu Zoo
Water Turtles with Anhinga - Burgers' Zoo
Aldabra Giant Tortoise with White-Eye bird - Hannover Zoo
Malayan Water Monitor with White Crested Laughing Thrushes - Lincoln Park Zoo
Amazon River Turtle with Teals - Lincoln Park Zoo
Dwarf Crocodile with Lilac Crested Roller - Lincoln Park Zoo
Mexican Beaded Lizard with Gamble's Quail - Toronto Zoo
Red Foot Tortoise with Sun Bittern, Mot Mot and
Grey Winged Trumpeter Staten Island Zoo
Bearded Dragon with Scarlet Chested Parakeet,
Crimson Rosella and Moluccan Cockatoo Micke Grove Zoo
Radiated Tortoise with Black Parrot and Roller Micke Grove Zoo
Desert Tortoise with Yellow Knobbed Curassow Micke Grove Zoo
Leopard Tortoise with Purple Glossy Starling and
Von Der Decken's Hornbills Micke Grove Zoo
Pacific Pond Turtle with North American Waterfowl Micke Grove Zoo
Chinese Alligator with Elliot's Pheasant Micke Grove Zoo
Chinese Alligator with Cattle Egret Micke Grove Zoo
Chinese Alligator with Black-Naped Oriole Micke Grove Zoo
Marine Iguana with Galapagos Dove (1960's) Brookfield Zoo Chicago
Galapagos Tortoise with Galapagos Penguin (1930's) Brookfield Zoo Chicago
Green Iguana with Caracara Santa Fe Com. College Zoo


3. Reptiles with Fish

Corallus enidris with Mud Slider and Piranha Jerusalem Biblical Zoo
Sea Turtle with Nurse Shark Aquazoo
Kinosternon with Mudskipper Aquazoo
American Alligator with Black Pacu Aquazoo
Green Water Dragon with Mudskipper Aquazoo
Green Water Dragon with Four Eyed Fish Aquazoo
Pignose Turtle with Arowana, Arapaima and
Redtail Catfish Rotterdam Zoo
Sea Turtle with Atlantic Brown Shark Rotterdam Zoo
Pignose Turtle with Melanotaenia boesemannie and
Australian Lungfish Rotterdam Zoo
Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman and Peacock Bass Rotterdam Zoo
Double-Crested Basilisk with Four Eyed Fish Allwetter Zoo
Pignose Turtle with Freshwater Stingray Northern Territory Zoo
Painted Turtle with Australian Lungfish Taronga zoo
Anaconda with Amazon Fish Zoo Basel
Green Iguana with Fresh Water Stingray TierparkHagenbeck
Red-Tailed Racer with Mudskipper, Four Eyed Fish
and Toxotes jaculatrix Tierpark Hagenbeck
Green Water Dragon with Ihelus finbriatus Tierpark Hagenbeck

4. Reptiles with Mammals

Green Iguana with Tamarin Jerusalem Biblical Zoo
Caiman with Fruit Bat Topeka Zoo
Gharial with Fruit Bat Singapore Night Safari
Gharial with Small Clawed Otter Singapore Night Safari
Salvador Monitor with Small Clawed Otter Singapore Zoo
Freshwater Crocodile with Ruffed Lemur, Gibbon and
Howler Monkeys Honolulu Zoo
Egyptian Spiny-Tailed Agamid with Macrobcelides Aquazoo
Green Iguana with Agouti Costa Rica Nat. Zoo
Red Foot Tortoise with Goeldi's Tamarin Allwetter Zoo
Double-Crested Basilisk with Goeldi's Tamarin Allwetter Zoo
Red Foot Tortoise with Cotton Top Tamarin and Sloth Staten Island Zoo
Chrysemys elegans with Gelada Baboon NaturZoo Rheine
Double-Crested Basilisk with Cotton Top Tamarin Lincoln Park Zoo
Radiated Tortoise with Brown Lemur Micke Grove Zoo
Desert Tortoise with Pudu and Cotton Top Tamarin Micke Grove Zoo
Leopard Tortoise with Gunther's Dik-Dik Micke Grove Zoo
Red-Eared Slider in moat around Lemur island Micke Grove Zoo
Desert Tortoise with Titi Monkey and Kuhls Marmoset Micke Grove Zoo


5. Reptiles with Amphibians

Common Madagascan Day Gecko with Mantella Antwerp Zoo
Chameleon with Bufo mauretanicus Frankfurter Zoo
Double-Crested Basilisk with Dendrobates auratus Münster Zoo
Spilotes mexicanus with Bufo horribilis Guadalajara Zoo
Crocodile Lizard with Mandarin Newt Toronto Zoo
Boa constrictor with Dendrobates sp. Costa Rica Nat. Zoo
Mexican Beaded Lizard with Colorado Toad Toronto Zoo
Eyelash Viper with Dart Frogs Philadelphia Zoo


6. Reptiles with Invertebrates

Marine Iguana with Hermit Crab (1960's) Brookfield Zoo Chicago
Oenpelli Python with Golden Orb Spider Northern Territory Zoo

7. Amphibians with Amphibians

Chinese Warty Frog with Salamandra Aquazoo
North American Bull frog with Pleurodeles waltl Aquazoo
Bufo viridis with Hyla Aquazoo

8. Amphibians with Fish

Bufo viridis with Hyla and Three-Spined Stickleback Aquazoo
Pleurodeles waltl with Three-Spined Stickleback Aquazoo
Bullfrog with Koi, Goldfish and Mosquito Fish Micke Grove Zoo
Poison Frog with Neon Tetra Marwell Zoo


9. Amphibians with mammals

Marine Toad with Golden Headed Lion Tamarin Münster Zoo


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Bamboozoo said:


> I have always put similar environmental needs as the forerunner. I have often seen this work better than a species that is recognized, ingrained into their history and instincts? I have also found that like species......ie wall walkers with other wall walkers to be more complicated and less likely to succeed. I have also seen 2 species from differing continents become very dependent on eat other. ie. the basilisks and CWD's. I have a small beardie who is very dependent on a star gazer. When I lost the star gazer the beardie refused to eat for over a month.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that allopatric species can't be successfully kept or that all sympatric species are compatible. However, at least with sympatric species you can be relatively confident that they will 'automatically' have the same requirements (sort of by definition in fact!).


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

bothrops said:


> 1.Reptiles with Reptiles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
speechless.
but wow!

where did you get that list from?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> speechless.
> but wow!
> 
> where did you get that list from?


Honestly can't remember. I think it was published on the Zoo forums. I just know that when I saw it, I had to steal it!


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

bothrops said:


> 1.Reptiles with Reptiles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my oh my! What a fantastic list.

I know it is frowned upon on this forum to mix species. But as an "old school" keeper this is something that I know was regularly practised. IMO as long as there is a large enough, suitable enclosure then as long as it is for animals that will not predate each other - why not?

My take, on the original question, is that environmental requirements would take precedence over geographical niceties.


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

im wondering if i can house the other half successfully with my bosc >.>


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I wander if salazare and becky can be cohabited succesfully:whistling2:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

While most thoughts on cohabitation start with similarity in environment. The second thought is opposition. 

For example bexini..........looking at your tokay. The safest mix would be a diurinal lizard that stays close to the ground and retreats to an underground burrow at night. You would want the basking area pushed to the front of the environment as the tokay will likely be in a shadowed area throughout the day. Also place your food for the diuranals at the front and feed your tokay on a ledge at the back. The little rainbow skinks that come as far north as here in southern ontario manage well in a variety of environments. They are bold and quick.

Each addition to the environment has to feel secure to thrive.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Bamboozoo said:


> While most thoughts on cohabitation start with similarity in environment. The second thought is opposition.
> 
> For example bexini..........looking at your tokay. The safest mix would be a diurinal lizard that stays close to the ground and retreats to an underground burrow at night. You would want the basking area pushed to the front of the environment as the tokay will likely be in a shadowed area throughout the day. Also place your food for the diuranals at the front and feed your tokay on a ledge at the back. The little rainbow skinks that come as far north as here in southern ontario manage well in a variety of environments. They are bold and quick.
> 
> Each addition to the environment has to feel secure to thrive.


 
Absolutely agree.

The main reason for zoo's cohabiting is the provide 'interest' in areas that would otherwise be 'empty' within the enclosure. For example, we keep a quad of red footed tortoise on the floor of our iguana exhibit. The iggies get fed on a platform in the branches and the red foots get a feeding tray on the ground that has two breeze blocks either side and a board on top to hide it from the iggies. Having siad that, due to diets, its not the end of the world if the iggy finds it and sneaks a bit of tortoise grub!

This gives interest at ground level as well as tree level.


Ideal candidates for cohabitation are sympatric species with different niches (either temporal or spatial) and either similar or non-conflicting diet needs.


(As sympatric species are by definition found in the same geographical area and therefore by definition share the same habitat requirements, I don't get why you need to clarify 'enviroment requirement over geographic range'....on the other hand, if two species are allopatric then it is clearly important that they are from similar habitats!)


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I was going to add to this thread, but all the good information is already here. 

Cohabitaing can work well, so long as various aspects are considered, the herdle most people fail at is not considering the occupants needs and the habitat being unsuitable. For example most people who try and cohabit do so to save space and keep more animals. These type of habits often end badly. 

However it can work, i have one considering of anoles, longtail, and USA tree frgos that has been running for coming on 8 years, and i have other that have been running for a few years. it can work, but requires research and lots of experience with the species considered so that you can identfy stress behaviors. 

jay


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

Whilst working in zoos I've worked mostly with mixed herp exhibits, but without totting them up I would say it's about 50/50 for same habitat type (but different continent) vs same locality.

With zoos it depends on whether the theme of the exhibit is a certain habitat such as 'rainforests' or 'deserts' or whether it's a certain geographical regions such as 'madagascar' (yes, I know there are many different habitats in these places).

From a personal point of view, and based on instinct rather than science, I prefer to see mixed set-ups with species that coexist in the wild. Wallabies in with rheas and emus in with giant anteaters just doesn't seem right somehow. 

Also, from an aesthetic point of view I don't like to see mixed snake species in an enclosure together, like retics with anacondas for example. Just doesn't look right to me.


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Spikebrit said:


> I was going to add to this thread, but all the good information is already here.
> 
> Cohabitaing can work well, so long as various aspects are considered, the herdle most people fail at is not considering the occupants needs and the habitat being unsuitable. For example most people who try and cohabit do so to save space and keep more animals. These type of habits often end badly.
> 
> ...


ive seen a few set ups like this with anoles and tree frogs and they always look amazing tbf

gives you a sort of real sense of nature if you know what i mean


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

iDomino said:


> ive seen a few set ups like this with anoles and tree frogs and they always look amazing tbf
> 
> gives you a sort of real sense of nature if you know what i mean


I've posted quite a few pictures of my set ups and videos, if you want to have a look. I much prefer mixed set ups as there is always something to watch. However, it requires so much more effort. 

jay


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Spikebrit said:


> I've posted quite a few pictures of my set ups and videos, if you want to have a look. I much prefer mixed set ups as there is always something to watch. However, it requires so much more effort.
> 
> jay


ill take a look a bit later after this film finishes

i bet it takes ALOT of research and experience with each individual species
thats why ive given up on housing my missus and bosc together =/
looking back on it i imagine there would be arguments over food, he'd be trying to eat it and she would be playing with the locust -.-


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Could you keep Day Gecko's with Crested Gecko's providing the enclosure was big enough & all heating, feeding requirements etc.. were met? This thread just got me thinking, both need similar enviroments heating could be sorted by using heat mats or a ceramic bulb (over one side to give a good heat gradient).


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

corny girl said:


> Could you keep Day Gecko's with Crested Gecko's providing the enclosure was big enough & all heating, feeding requirements etc.. were met? This thread just got me thinking, both need similar enviroments heating could be sorted by using heat mats or a ceramic bulb (over one side to give a good heat gradient).


Personally i would say no. You have two species that occupy the same area of the habit, at the same time period (i know cresties are ment to be nocturnal, but so few really are). Also the size difference is asking for trouble IMO. Cresties can be very heavy footed. They also require different temperature gradients which would cause problem. 

So short answer no, in my opinion. 

jay


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> Personally i would say no. You have two species that occupy the same area of the habit, at the same time period (i know cresties are ment to be nocturnal, but so few really are). Also the size difference is asking for trouble IMO. Cresties can be very heavy footed. They also require different temperature gradients which would cause problem.
> 
> So short answer no, in my opinion.
> 
> jay



Thanks mate, it was just a thought Jay, not that i was going to do it. Oh & i never see my Cresties out during the day, they usually come out after their lights go off at about 7.00pm :2thumb:.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

corny girl said:


> Thanks mate, it was just a thought Jay, not that i was going to do it. Oh & i never see my Cresties out during the day, they usually come out after their lights go off at about 7.00pm :2thumb:.


No worries, the cresties i've worked with have always been ocseptulia and been out both in the day and night. But it's the fact they are heavy footed, or mine were, that would but me off. They have a habit of jumping on things lol. 

You never know if you dont ask:2thumb:

jay


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Discussion of this subject is just scratching the surface in the world of hobbyists. 

I am not trying to be difficult Jay...we have just seen some different things and have rarely had the chance to relate experiences to others. 

This is the question I would have asked you Corny....Where does your crestie sleep? If you had come back with...he sleeps in a small birdhouse, or hole in piece of wood or protected area in the center. If so or if you could create one that your crestie slept in during the day it would work.

A day gecko can be accomodated with a piece of wood standing in a rear corner that is a tight vertical fit. The crestie may be very close but never able to get to him thus he has optimum security. And light and heat directed to a front corner and that gecko will be out there every day, yet rarely will they meet as even if awake the crestie will avoid the heated area.

My GD lives at room temp now as I dont even attempt to catch him. He is easily kept an eye on and travels both floors of the house daily. He has food bowls, can climb into a viv with an open top, visit the tort table, he often wandeers the parrot cage tops, etc. Home base is behind a large painting upstairs and across from the bathroom which is where he finds his water. He is UNBELIEVABLY adaptable. And apparently feels very secure. 

Every lizard must be approached as an individual. 

Pat


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## SuperSpeedyWheels (Jun 23, 2011)

Varanus Acanthurus and Adult Giant African Land Snails :no1: (okay so they are not both reptiles) but this is how it works for me..

The adult Gals will always be too big for the ackies to eat, they both like humidity and heat, The gals only need a small feeding bowl somewhere in the tank that the ackies dont touch. The Gals Breed and lay eggs which the ackies eat, any uneaten hatch and the ackies eat the snails. The both like deep substrate too. :2thumb:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Tell me more Speedy, I am Canadian and they are illegal here. I have never seen one. Love to see a pic or two of the environment as well.

giggles::: I am not getting any work done this morning! shutting down computer


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Bamboozoo said:


> Tell me more Speedy, I am Canadian and they are illegal here. I have never seen one. Love to see a pic or two of the environment as well.
> 
> giggles::: I am not getting any work done this morning! shutting down computer


ackies illegal or gals?


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

GALS are illegal........must have read it before I edited. :lol2:


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

strange thing to make illegal =/


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

iDomino said:


> strange thing to make illegal =/


Not really - they are hugely invasive and as they are eaten, they have been released all over from farms and for food. They displace other species due to their size and cause them and others that rely on them huge problems.

They're not really a problem over here as our climate wouldn't support them. Other countries have to be more careful! (Though I'm not sure Canada is renowned for it's tropical climate...:crazy


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I love how this thread seems to have attracted almost every member I have alot of respect for too, all sharing the same overview with differing opinions.

Good stuff.


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## RichardVB (May 22, 2010)

Very interesting thread to read.

One addition to the cohabitation list is Berlin Aquarium (the reptiles house for Berlin Zoo is upstairs in the aquarium, adjacent to the zoo grounds).

They have very large display with several burms and about a half dozen large Taiwanese Beauty snakes. There is a small waterfall (by small I mean 'not very wide' - it is metres long) and the Tais seemed to gather around this, whilst the burms did as burms do and found somewhere to sleep.

An interesting use of two species who both can use a lot of space, albeit it in different ways, and also a way of bringing some movement and activity to the burm enclosure.

I am by far the comparative layman amongst the experienced people who've commented on this thread so far - what are your views on this?


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Much better answer than I would have had to the question of gals....Thanks Bothrop.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Bamboozoo said:


> Discussion of this subject is just scratching the surface in the world of hobbyists.
> 
> I am not trying to be difficult Jay...we have just seen some different things and have rarely had the chance to relate experiences to others.
> 
> ...


Very true, and i agree ' Every lizard must be approached as an individual. '

However, whilst i agree i also disagree to some degree. i have always found cresties to be jumpy and heavy footed, which i beleive fits with most experiences. my worry about cohabiting with physluma would be that they are likely to cause injury as they do leap around. 

Whilst i believe cresites are hardy little things and would cope with the habit fluctuations, and i beleive even the physluma would be happy, my concern would be injury. Though this could be targeted with the provision of lots of hides and hollows, the risk is still there, and personally not one i would take with that particular species. 

There are lots of other things i would say could work with both, but i dont believe cresties to be one. Either that or i have only met hyper and heavy footed cresties lol. 

But this has been a really good thread and one i have enjoyed. Nice to see one not taken over by the 'never' group.

Jay


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Bamboozoo said:


> Tell me more Speedy, I am Canadian and they are illegal here. I have never seen one. Love to see a pic or two of the environment as well.
> 
> giggles::: I am not getting any work done this morning! shutting down computer


In the non planted habits (the few i have) I have gal moving around on the floor. The way their foot works always fascinates me. 

Will take a video of mine for you. 

Just wondering have you seen the videos of my planted community habitats that i posted a while ago? I know you kept asking for some ages ago.

Jay


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## Junior13reptilez (Oct 17, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> In the non planted habits (the few i have) I have gal moving around on the floor. The way their foot works always fascinates me.
> 
> Will take a video of mine for you.
> 
> ...


Can you post links to your videos/youtube if you have one please .


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Spikebrit said:


> Very true, and i agree ' Every lizard must be approached as an individual. '
> 
> However, whilst i agree i also disagree to some degree. i have always found cresties to be jumpy and heavy footed, which i beleive fits with most experiences. my worry about cohabiting with physluma would be that they are likely to cause injury as they do leap around.
> 
> ...


its not just the cresties youve met lol
tried taking photos of one of our new ones last week and she kept lunging at the camera, in the end she just perched on the lens -.-

but yeah as light as they are she made a hell of a whack when she dove on the camera


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

I will agree with you Jay. There are a lot of other possibilities to look at pairing with GDay. I think at the time I was looking at your thread I was just overwhelmed and intended to get back to it. Then my site crashed and I have been doing repairs for months. I will send you a PM. 

I would love to see your gals in action too. 

The nay sayers, at least at this forum have been pretty quiet of late.

Pat


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I can remember years and years ago, San Diego Zoo found their giant snakes were getting a bit porky, as they had an easy life, loads of food, and not much incentive to move around. The solution they came up with was to house them with Galapogas tortoises: if the snakes didn't want to be trod on by a galumphing great tortoise all the time, they had to move!:lol2:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

That is one of the advantages of the cohabitations Ron. I think it keeps them much more aware of their surroundings and having to react to situations. Keeps their minds active as well as their bodies.


Which of the arguments AGAINST cohabitation are the most valid?


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Junior13reptilez said:


> Can you post links to your videos/youtube if you have one please .


here's a link to two of them 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/planted-vivariums/717598-videos-my-planted-vivs-after.html

really need to get some more pictures up, i have a community one of reed frogs and lygodactylus that works really well. 

jay


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Bamboozoo said:


> That is one of the advantages of the cohabitations Ron. I think it keeps them much more aware of their surroundings and having to react to situations. Keeps their minds active as well as their bodies.
> 
> 
> *Which of the arguments AGAINST cohabitation are the most valid?*


Well, with amphibians, a lot are sensitive to each other's skin toxins; for example, I would never advise keeping fire-bellied toads with anything other than other FBTs, as their poison has a slow, cumilative effect. My advice over on 'Phibs is always that mixing _can_ be done, but only with space, and only with a sound knowledge of the animals concerned. There is a definite knee jerk 'Puritan' reaction over there whenever mixing is mentioned, though- much like the one on Lizards when someone suggests you don't actually have to boil/bleach/bake every item of 'natural' tank decor to death and beyond...:whistling2:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Bamboozoo said:


> That is one of the advantages of the cohabitations Ron. I think it keeps them much more aware of their surroundings and having to react to situations. Keeps their minds active as well as their bodies.
> 
> 
> Which of the arguments AGAINST cohabitation are the most valid?


 
Good question!

Arguments I can think that have 'legs'

-hybridisation issues with closely related species/locales (thinking frogs mostly here!)

-The fact that I would only 'advise' doing it if you are an experienced keeper so you can recognise the signs anticipate problems and deal with issues as they occur. Therefore if noobies post 'can I keep my X with my Y?' my usual answer is 'no'. Not because they 'couldn't' but because if they probably 'shouldn't'. I know that makes certain assumptions about 'noobies' but if they come on saying 'I've kept X and Y for Z years and I've often thought about putting them together - could you guys advise me about potential issues and problems/concerns?' then I'd give a very different answer

-Only cohabit if you have a sound knowledge of all species involved and have kept all of them seperately for at least some time to get an idea of 'normal' behaviour as a reference to the cohabiting behaviour. Then have a knowledge of the species to know if the change in behaviour is good or bad! 

- space saving = bad reason


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## Bexzini (Oct 21, 2010)

Wow I'm so glad I posted this thread. I just want to say thank you for all the really interesting and detailed replies, its obvious that a lot of you have a vast amount of experience and knowledge. I had no idea that some of you had so much knowledge and experience! Thanks a lot guys, I really really appreciate it. I was in 2 minds about posting this as you know what RFUK can be like, but now I'm glad I did : victory:


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## magicleo (May 17, 2011)

bothrops said:


> Arguments I can think that have 'legs'
> 
> *-hybridisation issues with closely related species/locales (thinking frogs mostly here!)*


Whilst I completely agree with this factor against co-habitation, I would be inclined to ask whether this is an issue with feeders.

As an example, I keep and breed Dubia Cockroaches: what would be the issues with co-habiting them with a similar species (let's say Blaberus Cranifer, which are of a similar size)? Obviously this is an entirely different situation to co-habiting Reptiles, Amphibians and Invertebrates as 'pets', but I think it is an interesting topic nonetheless. 

I have noticed myself, as i'm sure many others have, that the Dubia seem to thrive much more when _en masse_, as they feel far more secure and productivity booms. Perhaps in this context it would be possible to say that that in this case putting two similar species together simply to create a larger group and thus more roaches is in fact purely beneficial, and has little of the drawbacks that you have mentioned, assuming that cannibalism will not occur of one species from the other. This reasoning could equally apply to certain animals that seem to be far more comfortable in groups, although obviously then the situation is distorted somewhat.

Sorry if I appear to meandering off topic, I would just like to hear some of your thoughts on it. Great thread, wish I had found it sooner!


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## Bexzini (Oct 21, 2010)

magicleo said:


> Whilst I completely agree with this factor against co-habitation, I would be inclined to ask whether this is an issue with feeders.
> 
> As an example, I keep and breed Dubia Cockroaches: what would be the issues with co-habiting them with a similar species (let's say Blaberus Cranifer, which are of a similar size)? Obviously this is an entirely different situation to co-habiting Reptiles, Amphibians and Invertebrates as 'pets', but I think it is an interesting topic nonetheless.
> 
> ...


I'm really pleased you opened my thread back up this stuff makes an interesting read


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

magicleo said:


> Whilst I completely agree with this factor against co-habitation, I would be inclined to ask whether this is an issue with feeders.
> 
> As an example, I keep and breed Dubia Cockroaches: what would be the issues with co-habiting them with a similar species (let's say Blaberus Cranifer, which are of a similar size)? Obviously this is an entirely different situation to co-habiting Reptiles, Amphibians and Invertebrates as 'pets', but I think it is an interesting topic nonetheless.
> 
> ...


IN all honesty my knowledge of cockraoches is not that good. I would say in theory it has potential but you would have to look at hybridasitation and if that is a factor and also if canablisation will occure. HOwever i would say it is deffently worth and experiment.


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## yuesaur (Aug 29, 2011)

i got shot down a while ago for asking this..

about a leo and an aft cohabiting.
to me the enviroments are pretty much similar and they are a closely related gecko species.

if a large enough vivarium was provided and proper quarintine was issued would it not be possibly to cohabit these 2 lovely species of gecko?


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## G.R/Trooper (Feb 20, 2011)

Thought ide pop a link here to the very few i have tried. Next one is a Redfoot with the CWD's. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/796646-co-habiting-species.html#post9469536

Didnt have much time to outline everything so it's sorta scrappy atm. But hey.


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