# Uromastyx diet and supplements



## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what supplements they use for their Uro and how often and in what quantity? 
I've read a couple of care sheets that suggest using Repashy veggie dust daily, except for a couple of days a week when Miner-ALL indoor should be used. I'm from the UK however and not sure where to get hold of these supplements, do others from the UK use these with their Uros?

As for the diet. I'm feeding mostly frisee and escarole (this is what caresheets mean by endive, right?) along with grated butternut squash. Then I usually alternate between a smaller amount of pepper/courgette/cucumber/carrot over the week. Is this OK? It's sometimes hard reading the US based care sheets because of the diff names they have for things, e.g. what exactly are collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens?


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

hey there, there will be slight variation with supplementation depending on how old the uromastyx is - the babies/juvies need it more, as do gravid females, whereas generally adults still need it, but just not quite as frequent.....

A varied and balanced diet aims to provide as many nutrients as we can, the best we can, but most will supplement aswell

All keepers will vary somewhat as to how frequent they supplement, some will dust with calcium powder 5 times a week and 2 times a week with a multivitamin supplement, whereas others may dust with calcium 2 or 3 times a week and once a week wth the multivitimin......i know this from speaking to various owners that keep Uro's, but its key to bear n mind the age of the Uro 

Most will prob use Nutrobal, or Reptivite or similar both are multivitamins that include vit D3 - calcium powder is just that, but get the stuff with NOTHING else in it, just calci powder 

For feeding theres loads of stuff out there, to many to list, but i will put a lnk up later once i find it, from aonther forum member, Salanky i think, its frm a site called moon Valley and has some diet info on it, but people will either grow there own, buy it in, or both.

At the supermarkets you want to go for the salad bags that contain varied leaves, to be honest the ones i AVOID is stuu that has spinich and/or iceberg lettuce n it.

But things lke watercress @£1 a bag are good and rich in calcium, also the florette salad mixes are also pretty good, but theres loads of salad bags so you'll need to look at them to be fair 

Collereds/Mustard Greens are whar we call Spring Greens, you get it either already shredded up into small pieces or just by it whole and pull bits off as needed.....

Butternut is cool as you mentioned, plus a whole load of other stuff - link coming soon 

Hope this helps you a bit, will dig out that link and get it up matey 



Azrael84 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone tell me what supplements they use for their Uro and how often and in what quantity?
> I've read a couple of care sheets that suggest using Repashy veggie dust daily, except for a couple of days a week when Miner-ALL indoor should be used. I'm from the UK however and not sure where to get hold of these supplements, do others from the UK use these with their Uros?
> ...


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply I appreciate it.

I've been looking at a couple of places for supplementation since:

*Moon Valley: *Repashy Veggie Dust (supposed to counter act goitrogens as seaweed with lots of iodine in it, I think as well as a *little *calcium and other nutrients). Second they recommend Minor-ALL indoor formula (I think this is mainly if you're not exposing to UVB though, and if so you only need this weekly (if at all?))

*UroWiki: *"Products such as MinerALL provide additional calcium for uromastyx,* but should not be used on a daily basis*. It has been recommended by some long-time keepers/breeders that a small sprinkle once a week is sufficient for healthy adult uromastyx, and twice week for captive-bred hatchlings up to one year old"

*Deer Ferns: *daily Miner-ALL dustings (in contradiction to UroWiki). They also dislike Rep-Cal, say too vit D3 and only calcium no other mins-->excess Calcium can then lead to excessive excretion of other mins in diet. "Whatever product you use make sure it contains well balanced list of minerals not just calcium". Finally they dust weekly with Repashy Uromastyx dust for yearlings up (another option is ground up Mazuri tortoise pellets) *BUT *if you then read their supplies page: Deer Fern Farms Uromastyx Supplies,Reptile Supplies, UVB Bulbs, Vitamines, it says there Repashy veggie dust is the key supplement they use; whilst they say they've noticed a trend for people to over apply Miner-ALL and under apply Repashy (but on the care page they stated they use Miner-ALL daily/Repashy once weekly). They also note on this page the benefits of Miner-ALL against other calcium sources because of the fact it contains other vits so you dont get the Uros excreted other nutrients etc.

A final warning on this page is against lots of calcium supps which are vit D3 enriched: vit D3 stored in the gut-->can reach toxic levels. Miner-ALL supposedly 1/10th the amount of other calc supps so safer in that regard.


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

So some quite conflicting pieces of info there, they all talk about Repashy Veggie dust/Miner-ALL indoor but Moon Valley says Veggie dust daily except on Miner ALL days a 1-2 times a week. Also in agreement UroWiki says Miner-All not daily 1-2 times a week depending on age. However Deer Fern seems to suggest Miner-ALL daily with a weekly Repashy dustings (this is the absolute opposite system to MoonValley!!?)

The Deer Fern Supplement recipe is then: lightly daily dust with Miner-All; alternate days add ground up Mazuri tortoise pellets; if over 1 year old then once weekly dust with Repashy veggie dust.

Moon Valley system: Daily Repashy Veggie dust, whilst weekly Miner-ALL.

------------------------

Deer Ferns supplies page seems to contradict their care page to me. One minute on the care page they will say Veggie dust not really that essential despite them using it weekly if you also use tortoise pellets, but on the sales page say things like it is their key supplement. They also now say they use Veggie dust to supply 2/3 of calcium needs and Miner-ALL is a secondary (as oppose to the daily they state on the care page-it's like the care page hasn't been updated or something...?). The supplies page of Deer Ferns seems to give supplement instructions much more in line with Moon Valley.


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

Some dietry imfo on here - yep, another american site 

Uromastyx Diet: Plant Foods and Feeding Uromastyx Lizards | moonvalleyreptiles.com

You'll always come up against conflicting info, on how to keep them or how often to supplement etc so try not to get bogged down with it 

If you offer a good varied diet, with an occasional dust and dont cake it on then you'll be fine 

Are you thinking of getting a uromastyx, if so what do you fancy, species wise?

They are greatly underestimated in my opinion


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

nearly fgot to mention seeds - they like to munch on them, things like millet/budgie seed, red/green lentils, mung beans, split peas etc etc all which you can buy in asda/tesco etc


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

labmad said:


> Are you thinking of getting a uromastyx, if so what do you fancy, species wise?
> 
> They are greatly underestimated in my opinion


I actually have a little Moroccan at the moment, only had him a couple of weeks though so still sussing a few of the finer details out like supplement and exact diet. I've been keeping him on just escarole and frisee (which I believe is what the americans actually mean by endive-not to be confused with the belgian chicory stuff...) aswell as butternut squash, and dandelions soon once they grow. These are gonna be his staples, now just working out what else to rotate really....

It seems a lot of people here do the supplements as: pure calcium Mon-Fri, Nutrobal weekends. I'm a little sceptical of this approach though because according to Deer Ferns you shouldn't really feed Calc alone in a supplement that doesnt contain other vits because too much calcium like this can cause other vits to excreted and also lead to organ problems etc (in particular they really dislike Rep-Cal)......so I would be more inclined to use something like Miner-ALL as they suggest for calcium so other vits are included, and then only use it once a week

If I understand correctly also Nutrobal is just ANOTHER source of calcium only it contains D3 too (which is why people only do it two days a week so you dont get the D3 build up and toxicity) so effectively this is Mon-Fri-calcium, weekend-nutrobal means calcium every single day? with no other nutrient supplements? seems excessive to me...

Repashy Veggie/Uro dust seems like a good idea to as it has the iodine from kelp amongst other things to counteract goitrogenic foods....so using this (or tortoise pellets) almost daily, with a once weekly Miner-All dustings seems like best way to me? I just don't know how I'm going to do this in the UK....I would really like to know if alternative products like this exist here?


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## Bipedal (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi - good choice! I've got a Moroccan Uro (and an Egyptian) and he's great. I'm not going to pretend to know much about the biological breakdown of diferent types of vitimans, combinations etc. I use a simple routine that made sense to me. The information - which, like you I imagine, I plucked from various places - can be very conflicting and in the end you just have to make your best guess, and then keep up good general husbandry. Just my opinion of course. 

The foods were easier. I checked those lists of foods and there calci / phos etc levels and made a little list for regulars and others. I think Kaplan's site has lists like this. I use (and buy them with these names in english shops!) Spring greens, chicory, endive, butternut squash, bok choy (aka pak choi) as mains, with radichio, runner beans, sugar snaps, dandelion leaves (careful where from!) peppers, courgette, celery. However, I also give dried seeds etc as a regular. Sometimes mixed, sometimes on their own. My feeding habits are purposefully irregular. If your uro has runny stools, try cutting back on the wet salads and giving more dry seeds / peas / beans.

Moroccans are known for developing a white crusty layer around the mouth, which isn't mouth rot. It's a paticular kind of bacteria and has been treated with a simple, regular application of iodine (diluted!) and I read that it has been surgically removed in a more extreme case. My Moroccan had this when I bought him, and was treated successfully with iodine - daily until it cleared. This, however, does not help to build a loving relationship!!

Anyway, don't worry too much, I'm sure you'll find the right routine. Enjoy.:2thumb:


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

Azrael84 said:


> I actually have a little Moroccan at the moment, only had him a couple of weeks though so still sussing a few of the finer details out like supplement and exact diet. I've been keeping him on just escarole and frisee (which I believe is what the americans actually mean by endive-not to be confused with the belgian chicory stuff...) aswell as butternut squash, and dandelions soon once they grow. These are gonna be his staples, now just working out what else to rotate really....
> 
> It seems a lot of people here do the supplements as: pure calcium Mon-Fri, Nutrobal weekends. I'm a little sceptical of this approach though because according to Deer Ferns you shouldn't really feed Calc alone in a supplement that doesnt contain other vits because too much calcium like this can cause other vits to excreted and also lead to organ problems etc (in particular they really dislike Rep-Cal)......so I would be more inclined to use something like Miner-ALL as they suggest for calcium so other vits are included, and then only use it once a week
> 
> ...


nutrobal is a vitamin and calcium powder which is why most people use it two days a week and then they get pure calcium everyday in the week. 
they can have as much plain calcium as they want as it is impossible to over dose on.


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

123dragon said:


> they can have as much plain calcium as they want as it is impossible to over dose on.


I'm pretty sure that is not true. Sources I have looked at anyway suggest it is possible and too much calcium can be just as bad...see for example Kaplan's/Deer Ferns site. I don't mean to argumentive btw, especially as someone coming here for advice...just stating what I think I have read...and I could well be wrong?


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

Azrael84 said:


> I'm pretty sure that is not true. Sources I have looked at anyway suggest it is possible and too much calcium can be just as bad...see for example Kaplan's/Deer Ferns site. I don't mean to argumentive btw, especially as someone coming here for advice...just stating what I think I have read...and I could well be wrong?


it might be different for uros but i know you cant overdose on calcium with some other lizards so i cant see it being different.
like as i say i dont think you can overdose on plain calcium, any that isn't needed passes through the system.
you can overdose on the other minerals and vitamins however so you have to be careful


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

123dragon said:


> it might be different for uros but i know you cant overdose on calcium with some other lizards so i cant see it being different.
> like as i say i dont think you can overdose on plain calcium, any that isn't needed passes through the system.
> you can overdose on the other minerals and vitamins however so you have to be careful


OK. I'm in a position of simply "I don't know" at the moment. I googled and a few old threads came up suggesting reptiles have the ability to regulate calcium so can't OD, and some others suggested that with limited D3 available to the rep you can't OD on plain calcium because it simply can't be used if they dont have the D3.

But I'm thinking of the quote from Melissa Kaplan (who seems extremely knowledgeable):
Excessive amounts of calcium, previously uncommon in iguanas, may become an increasing problem as owners, scared of MBD, overcompensate and give too much calcium. Hypercalcemia may also occur in conjunction with protein/hydration induced kidney failure, can cause bone defects, cardiac changes, hyperthyroidism, shock, renal hypertension and failure and death.


and also Deer Ferns site mentions excess calcium fed in a supp which doesnt contain other vits can lead to those other vits being excreted.


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

Another interesting paragraph:



> Many people believe that there is no such thing as too much calcium in a reptile diet, especially when it is via supplementation. This is not true. Calcium in high doses can act as a binder, which inhibits the absorption of essential nutrients such as other essential minerals, as well as vitamins. In the presence of too much Vitamin D, excess Calcium can calcify the internal organs. As anyone who has ever taken calcium for indigestion should know, calcium neutralizes stomach acids, which are necessary for the digestion and absorption of all nutrients. Many drugs have warnings to not take them with an antacid because it can prevent the drug from being absorbed into the system. Balance is a major key. Giving a large dose of calcium all at once is not the same as giving a smaller amount with each feeding.




Taken from the repashy website: Welcome to Repashy Ventures - Reptiles


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

For youngsters i would go with something along the lines of pure calcium 2-3 times per week, and a multivitamin once a week......adults calcium 1-2 times a week and once a week for the multivitamin 

You can alter it slightly, and dont forget its a light dusting, but up to you in the end - just an option


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

labmad said:


> For youngsters i would go with something along the lines of pure calcium 2-3 times per week, and a multivitamin once a week......adults calcium 1-2 times a week and once a week for the multivitamin
> 
> You can alter it slightly, and dont forget its a light dusting, but up to you in the end - just an option


meant to say for youngsters, multivit twice a week, better to spead 2 light dustings over a period rather than just 1 loading dose i reckon


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

labmad said:


> meant to say for youngsters, multivit twice a week, better to spead 2 light dustings over a period rather than just 1 loading dose i reckon


hey, I think I will go with a regime like this, got the pure calc powder I plan to use 1-2 times a week, just need to settle on a multivit now....which one do you use? I'm thinking repashy is best, it's hard to find though in the uk...any other good subs?

Also does anyone feed tortoise pellets to their uros?


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

i have nutrobal here, but also have the zoo med stuff, reptivite i think it is, and also calci powder with D3, which i tend to use for my young ambilobe chameleon 

But i do the dosing as above 

I have heard before of peopple feeding their uros on the pellets inc iguana pellets too.....


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## Andylsg (May 11, 2010)

*hi there*

all good advice really and you're right its hard to know really what to use and what quantities, last 6 months i have been using 'uromastyx dust' which i think is made by t-rex according to them has everything you need then i use nutrobal rotationally a couple of times weekly, that and i use juvenile iguana pellets which he seems to like  on the food side of things he absoloutley loves eating flowers as well and the 'grow your own tortoise food' seeds (try cosy tortoises on here) are usually a safe bet as well.

hope this helps

andy


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

regarding 'overdosing' of calcium. 

this can only be done with the use of supplements. if you are providing your herbivore and omnivore reptile with a good balanced diet made up of the correct calciumhosurus ratios and low oxalic acids then you really dont need to use much supplementation at all. 

it is rare for reptiles to suffer from having too much caclium in their diet, even with the use of supplements as they can quite easily 'dump' the excess calcium in their stools without digesting it. 

this is not healthy but i think its important to note that you are better of providing loads of calcium in their diet without supplementation and then the supplements are there as a reassurance that you are providing enough along side good uvb lighting. 

i would not worry in the slightest about overdoing your reptile with calcium if you are doing things as directed.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

im in the process of writing up a document with all the edible plants for reptiles and their values so its easy for people to see what they can feed their herbi/omni reptiles and how often. 

supplementation should be used daily in hatchlings, sick reptiles and gravid females. remember it should be used very sparingly with a good varied diet and uvb lighting. 
healthy adults can be supplemented a couple of times a week. gradually reduce supplementation as your reptile gets older and stronger. 

vetark products are the best on the market and strongly recommended by good experienced herp vets. so using nutrobal will do everything you need it to as a supplement but the diet is the most important part of keeping an animal healthy. 

if your willing to grow your own plants and offer a calcium rich, oxalic acid and phosphurus low diet made up of 10+ plants a day then many say supplementation is not necessary. 

just remember to do what the supplement directs you to do and you will be fine. 

you can have your reptile checked for calcium levels in the blood but this is a difficult and stressful procedure for your reptile as it is very hard to get blood from reps and they have to do it through the largest blood vessle in the tail, and with uros this is far from easy! 

if the toes of your uro are strong and your uro is agile and active with good muscle tone in the legs and tail then you have nothing to worry about. 

i would suggest using solely nutrobal and a brill diet, if you can grow you own in calcium rich soil thats fab. i use garden lime, which is just limestone really, which contains calcium compounds, bascially is calcium! that is absorbed by the plant providing extra calcium which can easily be digested.


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks for the excellent and detailed replies. Just a few quick comments before I have to chance to have an in depth read:



> regarding 'overdosing' of calcium.
> 
> this can only be done with the use of supplements.


I agree that you have no risk of Ca overdose other than with use of supplements. What I was concerned about is the "5 times Ca/weekends Nutrobal" regime that lots on this forum seem to use. This means Ca dosing *every single day* of the week; I am beginning to believe this is too much. I think the belief you can't overdose on Ca comes from people thinking of Ca not being able to be utilised unless D3 is available so by limiting nutrobal (containing D3) they can give as much pure D3 as they want because excess is "dumped out". But Calcium Carbonate is the prime component of stomach antacids and is extremely effective in neutralizing stomach acid: this means if you give too much Ca your rep will find it hard to absorb nutrients and other vits. There are other complications from too much Ca as well, in summary too much of anything can be harmful despite what manufacturers may write on the back of bottles.



> vetark products are the best on the market and strongly recommended by good experienced herp vets. so using nutrobal will do everything you need it to as a supplement but the diet is the most important part of keeping an animal healthy.


I am personally not going to use nutrobal. The reason being I have read a few studies now suggesting dietary D3 may not even be able to be utilised by reps (well the studies were for torts and iguanas but I guess the same might apply to other reps) and if it can be utilised than only minimally. I think strong UVB is the way to go for D3 without risking toxicity from the D3 building up in the fat cells. My second issue with nutrobal is that is contains any Phosphorous what so ever (even in the small amount), as Melissa Kaplan says: "herbiv reptiles get more than enough Phosphorous from their diet without needing any more supplemented". It's true that you eventually want your reps blood plasma containing a 2:1 Ca ratio, but this does not translate into the need to give supplements that have this ratio! (I know nutrobal is more like 46:1, but again why supplement any P when diet so high in it?) since you are presumably supplementing calcium to balance out the extra P in the plants anyway! Hence products like T-rex 2:1 should probably be avoided.

Because of all these factors I will probably end up using pure Ca (no D3, no phosphorous at all) on weekends. Then to get up the other mineral and vits (which is important when Ca supplementing) I will prob use something like Repashy Veggie/Uro dust (Mon,Wed,Fri), since unlike some supplements it has the correct A:E ratio of 100:10:1, and has kelp containing iodine to counter goitrogenic effects of some many uro food sources. It does contain some D3 but not very much. 

Another thing to note is you can also overdose on Vit A, so one should watch this when multivit supplementing I believe.

------------------------------

My disclaimer is this is all stuff I have just read in various articles on the internet and would be very happy to be corrected if any errors.


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## Jack Stiles (May 15, 2008)

To go off in a completley different direction I personally barley use any sups. Uromastyx can be fed such a wide diet that as long as they get a good mix of plant material constant supplementation is unessicary. My Uros are fed a wild collected diet of about 6-7 different plant species wich I never dust. I mix a bit of pure calcium in with their seed/lentil mix but that's about it.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

Az, it would seem we have read all the same things as i fully agree with you. 
If people are supplementing daily to healthy adult reptiles then this needs to be stopped. 
diet and uv lighting are the way to ensure a healthy reptile not supplementation however it does have a role to play. 

regarding your statement on absorbing D3, it is not actually known for sure as there is limited research in this field however is it suspected that desert species are able to asborb D3 through digestion. 

Unless you have a desert species i dont think it is necessary to use a supplement with D3. 

we could go on about this topic forever because ultimatley we do not know how supplements really affect reptiles, there just isnt enough science. and we definatly do not know what is in the supplements as there is no lawful guidelines that must be followed in the pet trade regarding foods and supplements.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

and having calcium without phosphurus is not that easy. the compounds of these chemicals are a lot more complicated then just being able to remove unwanted strands.


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

Also, just to go off topic a little for a moment. Since I installed my thermosocket+reflector around my ceramic emitter, my uro doesn't seem to be as active and coloured up as he was before. I can't understand why though, the temps seem to be more or less identical as before, only thing that has changed is unfortunately the humidity has slightly risen from 35%->41%. I guess the heat is slightly more localized than it was previously, but ambient hot is still 38C/ambient cold 29C, so he should be fine temps wise still. Maybe it was just the stress of being taken out for an hour or two whilst I did the install a few days ago that has stressed him out a little?


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## Azrael84 (Jun 11, 2011)

lovemysnakes said:


> and having calcium without phosphurus is not that easy. the compounds of these chemicals are a lot more complicated then just being able to remove unwanted strands.


I'm think Calc Carbonate should do the job? even ground up cuttle fish? 

You're right though, the science is very limited on the whole topic, I wish someone would put the same time and effort in rep nutrition as to dog/chicken nutrition, but there you go....I think the best approach is like many have said just don't go over board on supplements, make correct diet number 1 priority and just dust sparingly a couple of times a week perhaps. 

Quick question: Is T-rex Repashy uromastyx dust the same thing as T-rex Sandfire uromastyx dust?


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

i really dont know is the answer to that lol. 
but by the looks of it, it would appear that sandfire contains more multivitamins. 
usually the small differences are found in the volumes of vits and metals like magnesium. 
youd have to search for their ingredients.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

oh and by the way, dog and cat foods etc are just as bad as reptiles. none of them have guidelines so can advertise whatever they like. 
horrible people just out to make money, they really dont care for healthy pets, healthy pets dont pay their wages!


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

Blimey - i think i need to go do a science degree to get my head round ths lil lot peeps ......

I wll be the 1dt to hold my hands up here - when i 1st started out i read quite a lot on the importance of 'regular' supplementationm both from other sites, but also from other keepers, and i do think that in a lot of cases when i started out it swayed towards making sure you supplemented a lot, for emaple the calci mon-fri and multi-vit sat/sun.....which yes i used to be that keeper  ......you read stuff like 'oh if you dont supplement regular your lizard will get MBD, or become calci deficient or even die'  - so for the beginners out there it can be VERY hard to decide which way to go, because at the end of the day we all want the best for our reps and have them in the best possible condition, but for me people, at times, not always try to over complicate it, which only adds to the 'shall i or shar'nt' i syndrome....

So in a nut shell, as you guys have already mentioned somewhere, i try and feed as many different food items as possible, either buying it in or growing it myself, which i am also having a pop at, on top of this i do what think is quite minmal supplemetation, which for the adults they get calci powder 1 or 2 times a week and a multivit once a weeks - the youngsters get calci powder 2 or 3 times a week and a multivit 1 or 2 times a week - and in both cases it is only a 'light' dusting 

My calci powder is the zoo med stuff, and the multivit i have nutrobal and the uromastyx dust, which i got together at the start but only use 1 or the other 

Phew thats me done, i'm off for a lay down and get the other half to feed me grapes....i've come over all faint


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