# what dart frogs in exo terra 8x8x12?



## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

What dart frogs can u put in an exo terra 8x8x12


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I'd say that size was only any good for inverts frankly


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Plastic ones.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

mrkeda said:


> Plastic ones.


I'd have to agree with this. The nanos are only of any use for keeping insects in.

Ade


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

alright cheers, i thought that it would be ok for a pair or a single thumbnail species?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm afraid not. The absolute smallest you should even try thumbnails in is a 12 x 12 x 18, and that is pushing it.

Ade


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Ok any ideas of what i can keep in there other than inverts?


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

You could fill it with all your loose change and then when you've filled it up you'll probably be close to being able to buy a suitable size Exo Terra for a couple Dart Frogs.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

mrkeda said:


> You could fill it with all your loose change and then when you've filled it up you'll probably be close to being able to buy a suitable size Exo Terra for a couple Dart Frogs.


Your sarcastic comments arent helping

Basically i got this terrarium quite cheep a while back but i still havent put anything in it so i am looking for ideas


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

mranimal said:


> Your sarcastic comments arent helping
> 
> Basically i got this terrarium quite cheep a while back but i still havent put anything in it so i am looking for ideas


You can look at it as sarcastic or you could look it at as me saying nothing really other than inverts which has already been said.

The best thing to do is rather than thinking 'What can I put in this' and thinking of something you want, like the Dart Frogs and then getting what is needed for that animal.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

mranimal said:


> Ok any ideas of what i can keep in there other than inverts?


There is no vertebrate that would be comfortable in that size tank. Use it as a place to grow plants. 


I don't even know why they would make a tank that small.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I have to agree, the exo terra nanos really are an own goal. The mini was bad enough. They're not even that wonderful a design for inverts really, but at least the size isn't an issue there. The only other critter that I can possibly think of that might do ok still isn't a vertebrate, that been velvet worms, but they like cool temps and damp substrate.

Me, I'd say use it to either grow a nice orchid in, some form of mantis, or just sell it/give it away and get a decent sized viv whilst ranting at Exo Terra for producing something so small and marketing it as ok for keeping animals in.

Ade


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

mrkeda said:


> You can look at it as sarcastic or you could look it at as me saying nothing really other than inverts which has already been said.
> 
> The best thing to do is rather than thinking 'What can I put in this' and thinking of something you want, like the Dart Frogs and then getting what is needed for that animal.


The reason why I thought dart frog is coz I saw a video of someone talking about this terrarium on YouTube and he mentioned dart frogs so not being a phib guy I came on here to check that he was right.....apparently he wasn't


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

plasma234 said:


> There is no vertebrate that would be comfortable in that size tank. Use it as a place to grow plants.
> 
> 
> I don't even know why they would make a tank that small.


Great idea!


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> I have to agree, the exo terra nanos really are an own goal. The mini was bad enough. They're not even that wonderful a design for inverts really, but at least the size isn't an issue there. The only other critter that I can possibly think of that might do ok still isn't a vertebrate, that been velvet worms, but they like cool temps and damp substrate.
> 
> Me, I'd say use it to either grow a nice orchid in, some form of mantis, or just sell it/give it away and get a decent sized viv whilst ranting at Exo Terra for producing something so small and marketing it as ok for keeping animals in.
> 
> Ade


I think in going to do the mantis or plant idea although I am going to look into the velvet worms coz they look interesting


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Put a nice orchid in it and keep an orchid mantis, that's what I would do.

Ade


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Put a nice orchid in it and keep an orchid mantis, that's what I would do.
> 
> Ade


Yea I think I will cheers


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

mranimal said:


> Ok any ideas of what i can keep in there other than inverts?


 
Sadly it is as has been said too small to be realistic.
Many fall into the same trap and of course you only find out once you`ve spent your hard earned.
If you really want dart frogs and money is a bit tight scan the local ads for a s/h viv of minimum 45 x 45 x45 and then you`ll be ready to rock.

Mike


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

On that note what about a horizontal 30x30x45?
I know a verticle one of those dimensions is no good, but i heard if it was horizontal the choices might open up a bit. Too much conflicting info out there.

And i was in the same boat a while back, had a tank the same dimensions as i just mentioned but verticle. I've always wanted dart frogs, but got the tank first as a christmas present and then told i was actually allowed them finally so i was researching for what could fit in there as i didnt have much space for a bigger tank. Decided against getting some but fortunately after that i was able to get a larger tank.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> Sadly it is as has been said too small to be realistic.
> Many fall into the same trap and of course you only find out once you`ve spent your hard earned.
> If you really want dart frogs and money is a bit tight scan the local ads for a s/h viv of minimum 45 x 45 x45 and then you`ll be ready to rock.
> 
> Mike


Thanks, yea I'd love to keep dart frogs at some point in the future


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Honestly, OP, no-one was being nasty, it is just a fact that these tanks are way too small for practically any vertebrates- Exo Terra really needs to look at their unrealistic marketing! :devil:

I've always thought velvet worms sound fascinating- let us know if you get any, and how they are to keep :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

dEsSiCaTa_UK said:


> On that note what about a horizontal 30x30x45?
> I know a verticle one of those dimensions is no good, but i heard if it was horizontal the choices might open up a bit. Too much conflicting info out there.
> 
> And i was in the same boat a while back, had a tank the same dimensions as i just mentioned but verticle. I've always wanted dart frogs, but got the tank first as a christmas present and then told i was actually allowed them finally so i was researching for what could fit in there as i didnt have much space for a bigger tank. Decided against getting some but fortunately after that i was able to get a larger tank.


Maybe I can help to explain this a little.

Dart frogs are considered to be either arboreal or terrestrial. A terrestrial frog is less reliant on plenty of climbing hight, but has a larger demand for floor space. Where arboreal darts STILL need floor space, but also like more hight too (usually they deposit tadpoles high up, and aren't so keen on deposition sites too close to the ground basically).

Now a 45x30x30 would actually have the same floor space as a 40cm x 40cm cube, but with less vertical hight, meaning it would be just about ok for smaller terrestrial species at a push. Far from good, but you could scrape by.

A 30cm x 30cm x 45 cm however only has a floor space of 30cm x 30cm. This makes it flippin hard to provide enough floor space for either terrestrial species or arboreal species of darts. Some very experienced keepers can just about manage to provide enough for supposedly terrestrial species as they know how to decorate to maximise both vertical and horizontal space, but for most it's too darned awkward to do. The truth is, even those with more experience, their darts will often behave better in a larger viv.

I can illustrate this from personal experience. I'm no dart pro by any means, but heh I have a bit of knowledge of decorating vivs. For a while I kept my oophaga pumilio black jeans in a 30cm x 40cm x 40cm viv. They bred for me about 3 times, BUT were mega shy. I've now moved them to a new 40cm x 40cm x 50cm viv. They're out constantly, even hanging around by the doors, completely shedding their shyness. This to me is proof positive that the shyness was the fault of the smaller viv.

THIS is why I always say to not use anything smaller than a 40cm cube, and to get bigger if at all possible. If you go with ENT style vivs, the price difference between a 40cm cube and a 40x40x50 tall is tiny, same for a 50x40x40. We're talking £10 difference here, which will make a HUGE difference in how your frogs behave for the better. It's the same between a 30x40x40 (listed as a 30x30x40, but trust me I've measured them, they're 30x40x40. lol), £10 between the 2 sizes. In dart frog terms £10 is nothing, and the gain is so large it's worth every extra pound.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now. Just think of it as I have tried small, and found them wanting. I'm just trying to help people to avoid wasting time or money on something that will just be naff.

As to the nanos, they're just rubbish full stop. Heck if you want an invert viv you can get better ones more cheaply from DMS Vivaria. I've seen his vivs in the flesh, and they are quality, and I am VERY picky, just ask Arcadia John. :lol2:

Ade

Nearly forgot, a pic of a velvet worm:-










I tried and failed to keep these a few years back. They like it too cool and quite moist, where my house tends to be warm...


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Cracking post Ade.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Found this thread on velvet worms some of you may find interesting
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spiders-inverts/241305-velvet-worm-care-thread-me.html


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## Paul12345678 (Aug 21, 2012)

Stick insect,of some sort??mantis.have some crickets.or a pair of locusts??(sorry that sounds sarcastic) there must be some bugs that would be ok.or maybe juveniles of suitable reptiles or amphibians.until you can afford to get a larger tank.
Im no expert on bugs,and amphibians.possible a juvenile tarantula??dnt take my word for it though!sure some1 will have an idea.maybe look into making a nice living setup.then maybe get some bugs of sort.to make it a mini eco system,
Hope this as inspired you.
paul


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## Paul12345678 (Aug 21, 2012)

Stick insect,of some sort??mantis.have some crickets.or a pair of locusts??(sorry that sounds sarcastic) there must be some bugs that would be ok.or maybe juveniles of suitable reptiles or amphibians.until you can afford to get a larger tank.
Im no expert on bugs,and amphibians.possible a juvenile tarantula??dnt take my word for it though!sure some1 will have an idea.maybe look into making a nice living setup.then maybe get some bugs of sort.to make it a mini eco system,
Hope this as inspired you.
paul


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Grow on some macleays spectre stick insects in it. Jewel beetles may be worth a look too.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Paul12345678 said:


> Stick insect,of some sort??mantis.have some crickets.or a pair of locusts??(sorry that sounds sarcastic) there must be some bugs that would be ok.or maybe juveniles of suitable reptiles or amphibians.until you can afford to get a larger tank.
> Im no expert on bugs,and amphibians.possible a juvenile tarantula??dnt take my word for it though!sure some1 will have an idea.maybe look into making a nice living setup.then maybe get some bugs of sort.to make it a mini eco system,
> Hope this as inspired you.
> paul


Thanks, thinking about it I could use it to house some baby geckos when they hatch....
The ecosystem idea sounds cool too I'm going to look into that


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

ronnyjodes said:


> Grow on some macleays spectre stick insects in it. Jewel beetles may be worth a look too.


Thanks, I think it may be too small for macleays spectre but the beetles are worth a look


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

mranimal said:


> Thanks, I think it may be too small for macleays spectre but the beetles are worth a look


 That's why I said grow on


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

ronnyjodes said:


> That's why I said grow on


Oops misread what u said


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