# more questions about food :-/



## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

i have tried numerous times to culture flies but they all crash tried varoius methods grrrrr. I have however had great succsess with Pea aphids and Grain Weevils both of which my Frogs love and take as readily has they do flies, can i sustain heallllllthy frogs on this diet with the occasional batch of flies.
The viv has a well established of woodlice and springtails i also keep a seperate culture of springtails of which i add a few each week for them to feed on.

thanks guys.


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

any chance of the pea aphid culturing method and pics plz


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

I don't know the correct answer but I wouldn't want to go down that route if I couldn't do flies, keep trying with the flies until u find the method that works for you 


Thanks 
Dane


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

s6t6nic6l said:


> any chance of the pea aphid culturing method and pics plz


Really easy and cheap.

Buy a box/bag of cheap dried marrow fat peas cheap and cheerful is fine

I put about 100-150 peas in a little pot to soak for around 48 hours to start the germination process. At this point you should see a small plant appearing from the pea. This is enough to start 5 individual cultures. 
The next day I set the culture pots by placing a wet sheet of kitchen roll into the bottom of a 1 pint plastic cup. This is then squashed flat using the base of another pot. The next day I set the culture pots by placing a wet sheet of kitchen roll into the bottom of a 1 pint plastic cup. This is then squashed flat using the base of another 
I then add the peas, just enough to give a very loose single layer on the kitchen roll, and then gently press these in. The uncovered cultures are placed on an East facing windowsill. Over the next few days spray the peas lightly with water if they start to dry out.
The first green shoot will appear about 2 days later. At this point I introduce the aphids, about 20 to each culture, and cover the tub with blue kitchen cloth.
Keep the kitchen roll moist, I use a syringe to squirt water through the cloth, about 5ml at a time but only if it starts to look a little dry. About one week later the culture will have grown and will have hundreds of new aphids. 
To harvest the aphids is a simple matter of removing the lid and tapping them into a clean dry container. From here they can be used to start new cultures or dusted with whatever supplement you use and fed to your frogs.
Will try and post a couple of pics as well.

Thanks


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

do you have tropical woodlice in their home as well?
you could also try springtails or firebrats to.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SilverSky said:


> do you have tropical woodlice in their home as well?
> you could also try springtails or firebrats to.


I think the OP already mentioned that they have woodlice, springtails, aphids and weevils. Firebrats aren't widely used in this country, although I believe Dartfrog sells them. The question is, will all of those be enough, given the darts well-known appetites? I personally don't know the answer, since I don't keep them, but Stu, Mike or Joe can probably answer better.


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> I think the OP already mentioned that they have woodlice, springtails, aphids and weevils. Firebrats aren't widely used in this country, although I believe Dartfrog sells them. The question is, will all of those be enough, given the darts well-known appetites? I personally don't know the answer, since I don't keep them, but Stu, Mike or Joe can probably answer better.


oh yeah, sorry, i managed to not read it properly :blush:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i feel a bit horrible, my guys only get mels and hydei, dont trust anything from garden (3dogs) and my bat has the stuff hovering over the pond.

but the general consensus is that fruitfly as a base feeder and give them anything else you can to offer variety to their diet.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i feel a bit horrible, my guys only get mels and hydei, dont trust anything from garden (3dogs) and my bat has the stuff hovering over the pond.
> 
> but the general consensus is that fruitfly as a base feeder and give them anything else you can to offer variety to their diet.


Actually, I've been thinking about this, and being (unlike my normal self, of course!) a bit contrary, why *shouldn't* a basis of these other foods work, if they can be supplied in enough quantity? After all, we all know that the major part of dart food in the wild is various ant species- none of which are provided in captivity- and mutant flightless FFs are no more or less 'unnatural' than anything else they are given- just saying...:whistling2:


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

I've got to say looking at a fly and an aphid the aphids does look to be meatier and to me more nutritious and my frogs love them. What is also good is they only eat pea plants so do no harm to me plants in the viv. Even considered and a pea plant in there lol

Dave BigBoots


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

BigBoots said:


> I've got to say looking at a fly and an aphid the aphids does look to be meatier and to me more nutritious and my frogs love them. What is also good is they only eat pea plants so do no harm to me plants in the viv. Even considered and a pea plant in there lol
> 
> Dave BigBoots


my mantella devour the aphids when introduced and would not hesitate giving these as a main diet with FF's and such.
working on a sustainable method to culture these myself and why asked for the info and thanks for the response :2thumb:


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

s6t6nic6l said:


> my mantella devour the aphids when introduced and would not hesitate giving these as a main diet with FF's and such.
> working on a sustainable method to culture these myself and why asked for the info and thanks for the response :2thumb:


No problem glad I can help someone for a change. Just as a side note I have today set up a couple in 2ltr water bottles I have cut the top of given that pean plants grow so large seems to make sense to me to allow them to grow bigger and maintain a culture longer. : victory:


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

IMHO, if can can produce enough of the food items you are currently culturing FF's would not be needed. The major reason we use flies as staple is because they produce large numbers of insects and are simple and cheap. If they're not that way for you, so be it. You're offering plenty of other variety. 

The fly is a vehicle for supplements IMO. Nothing special, nutritionally, about them. 

Cheers,


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> IMHO, if can can produce enough of the food items you are currently culturing FF's would not be needed. The major reason we use flies as staple is because they produce large numbers of insects and are simple and cheap. If they're not that way for you, so be it. You're offering plenty of other variety.
> 
> The fly is a vehicle for supplements IMO. Nothing special, nutritionally, about them.
> 
> Cheers,


Yay, we are going to do it! We are going to lead the Revolution against those revolting little pests! Ladies, Gentlemen and those with no gender prefererence, Welcome to the *Fruit Fly Free Future*! FFFF will be storming a vivarium near you soon! :2thumb::no1::2thumb:


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

Hahaha were are going green lol

Dave BigBoots


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## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

I wouldn't use just the aphids as a staple, they are plump but the sap they feed on contains lots of water  They are very nutritious but will be lacking in many key elements. I've posted a culture guide (including the pictures that go with the text:whistling2 on poisonfrog that has a little information on the nutrient content of pea sprouts.

Coupled with the other feeder bugs I'm sure most of their dietary requirements will be met but, to me at least, FFs have the advantage of being capable of gut loading. Put a batch of flies on new media for a few days and watch their abdomens expand and take on the base colour of the media 

Bean weevils are chunky looking bugs but come with a VERY big caution aside from the concerns of them causing intestinal compaction. The adults DON'T feed on the media. This means that the older they get the less nutritious they will be. They won't shrink because they have a hard exoskeleton but their internal muscles etc waste away until they die. They do, however, feed on nectar so can be supplemented with a little honey 

Wild frogs do indeed feed mainly on ants and mites BUT these insects feed on a huge variety of food items, many of which simply can't be replicated in captivity. It's for this reason that I feed as many different feeders as I can and why Stu in particular is a big fan of field plankton. My feeder list atm, in order of frequency, is FFs, aphids, 3 species of woodlice, bean weevils, grain weevils, waxmoth larvae and, when they eventually mature, confused flour beetle larvae. More the merrier IMO 

BigBoots, if you're planning on growing the pea plants bigger with the intention of producing more aphids bare in mind that the aphids feed on the growing tips of the plants and, more importantly, the nutritive value of the plants will diminish as they grow unless you feed them somehow


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

I know of a few who only feed Bean Beatles and have been doing it for years. I am feeding them more and more. All is fine with the frogs. 

While I agree with what you are saying, we will never be able to replicate what the frogs eat in the wild. 

Supplements, supplements, supplements, it may be artificial, but we take Vitamins too for what we are lacking in our diet and it works.


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

I like this!

it of course has more to do with what the food source has been feeding on itself. we can then increase variety.

I for one am so pleased to see the major livefood breeders taking on more of a diverse range.

calci worms are available in lots of sizes now and as of last week at least one wholesaler included Silkworms and springtails in a range of sizes to the standard range.

its great to see the hobby constantly evolving,

john







aberreef said:


> I wouldn't use just the aphids as a staple, they are plump but the sap they feed on contains lots of water  They are very nutritious but will be lacking in many key elements. I've posted a culture guide (including the pictures that go with the text:whistling2 on poisonfrog that has a little information on the nutrient content of pea sprouts.
> 
> Coupled with the other feeder bugs I'm sure most of their dietary requirements will be met but, to me at least, FFs have the advantage of being capable of gut loading. Put a batch of flies on new media for a few days and watch their abdomens expand and take on the base colour of the media
> 
> ...


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Interesting read guys cheers,Huw great post mate,never thought about the beanies in that way.

Dave where do I stand ,we'll I love aphids as a feeder,and can't see anything really wrong with what you have going on. I guess my thoughts really run close to Dane's and Huw's in that although I too see ff mainly as a staple vit carrier,it seems to becoming apparent we can guy load them a bit after all and I'd always want them as a feeder for me frogs. So Dave my humble opinion would be keep trying with the ff but I don't think your frogs will come to any harm with what you have on the go already.

Huw mentioned my fascination with wild grub,I tried something new from one of our compo bins the other day,we are pretty sure it's called a moth fly,about 4mm,slightly bigger than hydei,biggish wings for size of beastie. Ron these make ff look like angels as far as transfer and dealing with,honestly mate these little fles are no easy to harvest feeder. But the feeding response from the frogs is astounding. I have no idea if this could be cultured,I suspect a complete mare to deal with. But it's certainly worth looking out for as a wild feeder,especially if you garden organic and compo stuff,one of those little extras for the frogs or even a get out of jail card when armegeddon happens. Oh and from a keepers point of view ,worth the effort to watch the frogs go completely nuts chasing them down:mf_dribble: We get a fair amount under the compo bin lid and harvest by tapping the lid into a big tupperware with a dollop of vit dust in to try and prevent them flying off. We have noticed a big in crease in numbers recently I don't yet know if this is a seasonal beastie,they always seem there though,I guess it didn't twig untill a few days back that they could be got from bin to viv without me being exicuted for filling the house with more ruddy beasties:blush:

Dr Nick uses alot of aphid Dave of the cultured variety,his thoughts here would make interesting reading 

good luck kiddo

Stu


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## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Supplements, supplements, supplements, it may be artificial, but we take Vitamins too for what we are lacking in our diet and it works.


Don't forget the need for high quality carbohydrates and proteins  I wouldn't do without Repashy Ca+ since I started using it but it's easy to forget about other major nutrients that simply aren't present in the powders. 

I doubt we'd be very healthy on a diet of bread and vitamin supplements. If your diet is balanced there's simply no need to take extra vitamins. In our frogs case though we obviously can't replicate their wild diet, no harm in trying to get as close as possible though 

Variety is the spice of life: victory:


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

I can't give the nutrient break down of a aphid but I can a fly 
Protein 63.9%
Fat 19.5 %
Cal 0.1 % ( hence the need for powder) 
Phosphorous 1.05% 


Thanks 
Dane


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Which I think is why the ff is a staple food the protein and fat ratios look good I'm sure a aphid has a higher fat content but have no proof  


Thanks 
Dane


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> Which I think is why the ff is a staple food the protein and fat ratios look good I'm sure a aphid has a higher fat content but have no proof
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Dane


I feel exactly the same about aphids Dane more fat ,no proof other than watching what happens when I was pouring alot into the frogs. Of particular note being our much missed citronella lad whom got thin from hating his QT tub,the turn around was remarkable and I'm sure the aphids had some part in his weight gain,just so damn fast. It might be down to their sugar content though Dane easily processed to fats,but I don't have proof ,just musing

best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i just pondering what insects we could randomly have a go at culturing


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Turkistan roach nymphs are awesome feeders. Not the fastest things to start breeding but frogs go mad for them.

Anybody culture silverfish? We get them all the time round here but never thought of culturing them though, plus they die as soon as you touch 'em which is a pain in the arse.

I've had a bunch of cultures of FF go tits up recently so I need to start venturing in to aphids etc as a good "just in case". If anybody who cultures aphids, turkistans or some of the more interesting feeders floating around is coming to BAKS, let me know


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

aberreef said:


> Don't forget the need for high quality carbohydrates and proteins  I wouldn't do without Repashy Ca+ since I started using it but it's easy to forget about other major nutrients that simply aren't present in the powders.
> 
> I doubt we'd be very healthy on a diet of bread and vitamin supplements. If your diet is balanced there's simply no need to take extra vitamins. In our frogs case though we obviously can't replicate their wild diet, no harm in trying to get as close as possible though
> 
> *Variety is the spice of lif*e: victory:


Totally agree on that part; when you consider the huge variety of food available to even native frogs and toads, we owe it to our tropical captives (and not just darts!) to offer as wide a variety as possible.



soundstounite said:


> I feel exactly the same about aphids Dane more fat ,no proof other than watching what happens when I was pouring alot into the frogs. Of particular note being our much missed citronella lad whom got thin from hating his QT tub,the turn around was remarkable and I'm sure the aphids had some part in his weight gain,just so damn fast. It might be down to their sugar content though Dane easily processed to fats,but I don't have proof ,just musing
> 
> best
> 
> Stu


I'm inclined to think of it as sugar content- even their droppings are sugar-rich, which is why ants cultivate them- but I'm sure it's possible that, just like waxworms, they convert a lot of those simple sugars into more complex fats. I often use waxworms for larger frogs that are looking a bit thin :2thumb: As to mothflies, I know them, but due to their small size, they aren't much use to me. I'm pretty sure that they are basically seasonal, but in the warmth of a compost bin, their lifecycle is bound to be more continuous.



Meefloaf said:


> i just pondering what insects we could randomly have a go at culturing


As above: the wider the selection the better! Calci worms were discovered by accident by a guy breeding morios and other feeders, who noticed them on his compost heaps.


EDIT: Just one more point; I share the same view as Stu that the addition of at least some wild-caught/foraged food (from a clean source) is beneficial in the long run; these usually don't need supplimenting, either.


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

aberreef said:


> Don't forget the need for high quality carbohydrates and proteins  I wouldn't do without Repashy Ca+ since I started using it but it's easy to forget about other major nutrients that simply aren't present in the powders.
> 
> I doubt we'd be very healthy on a diet of bread and vitamin supplements. If your diet is balanced there's simply no need to take extra vitamins. In our frogs case though we obviously can't replicate their wild diet, no harm in trying to get as close as possible though
> 
> Variety is the spice of life: victory:


I agree with you, but I don't think by omitting flies from their diet will do any harm.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> I agree with you, but I don't think by omitting flies from their diet will do any harm.


To be utterly honest, I think FFs achieved their current prominence simply by being available and relatively easily cultured; long before frog-keeping (let alone dart-keeping) was anything but a weird hobby for weird people, they were used both in genetic research and secondarily in fish-keeping. Then when darts started to take off, they were the go-to food- not because they were anything special, but because they were readily available ,the right size and *there*.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

this thread has taught me alot of things, but mainly that Ron is looking to get darts anyway he can, aslong as there is no fruit flies lol


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> this thread has taught me alot of things, but mainly that Ron is looking to get darts anyway he can, aslong as there is no fruit flies lol


Everybody loves a tryer... :whistling2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> Everybody loves a tryer... :whistling2:


Paula had only a "their cute aww" interest in frogs, after stu's i'm going to end up getting her her own "i love the strawberry looking ones"

so i know whats in store for you, i'm just saying, start culturing, get a viv ready and take a heat pad and a nice container when you visit

:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

Wow I'm over whelmed by the level of intrest this has evoked. The level of knowledge is amazing I just want to say thanks for all the comments although where I go from he I'm still not sure but whatever this has given me lots of ideas and choice so thanks again guys would love to reply to each one individually but I have work in the morning lol

Dave BigBoots


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> To be utterly honest, I think FFs achieved their current prominence simply by being available and relatively easily cultured; long before frog-keeping (let alone dart-keeping) was anything but a weird hobby for weird people, they were used both in genetic research and secondarily in fish-keeping. Then when darts started to take off, they were the go-to food- not because they were anything special, but because they were readily available ,the right size and *there*.


Yepper, that sounds about right. I doubt I would ever go without flies myself though. They're just too easy lol and you're not going to be feeding beatles to froglets. 

Pinhead crix is another option too that I don't think has been mentioned.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> Pinhead crix is another option too that I don't think has been mentioned.


i think it's often quoted that the problem with crickets are the risks of them carrying parasites and in general their containers also harbouring other insects etc.

when i was getting tree frogs i was looking into Pallid Cockroaches, they're a small cockroach, they can climb and have great nutritional value apparently. according to dartfrog okay for medium to large darts (probably tincs would be best bet) and other large frogs. i also looked into calci worms and soldier flies, but soldier flies by the looks of things are messy and a nightmare to actually harvest


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

The problem with crickets is that theyre sneaky buggers, hide in your viv, get massive and too big to be eaten (by darts at least) and then start causing havoc. I've used them as a last resort with my tricolors in the past but only because I know they'll take up to 2nd instar quite happily if needs be. I'd be dubious that they wouldn;t attack the frogs if they got to full adult size though.


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

With the Crix, I bred my own to take away any concerns about them harbouring any parasites. I fed them out by the thousands and in one case I did have them grow too big for them to eat. By the time I found them they were adults :blush:

It only happened ounce though. If they are fed you gotta make sure it's in small amounts and make sure they get eaten!! :gasp:


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

I also think frog size plays apart in why I don't feed crix. Glen do the crix cultures smell? 


Thanks 
Dane


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> I also think frog size plays apart in why I don't feed crix. Glen do the crix cultures smell?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Dane


If the adults are kept very clean, no. If you let them go, look out! :lol2:

The pinheads don't smell at all. They were my favorite feeder at one point and the frogs love em!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Glenn do you still use crix now? Second Q You mentioned a while back about mites,did you ever make inroads into that,I know you've had a huge amount of stuff to do of late,so I'd imagine not,but the type of mite you were pondering would be very relevant here..

Oh and bro cool to see you about again.:2thumb:


jonny ,John in brum has made some inroads into silver fish culturing:

Has Anyone Tried Firebrats For Their Frogs Etc (Similar To Silverfish) - Feeding & Supplements - PoisonFrog

Joe another feeder not mentioned here that has been cultured are milkweed bugs. cultured on sunflower kernals i believe 

Milkweed Bug Rearing

best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

they're certainly pretty Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Glenn do you still use crix now? Second Q You mentioned a while back about mites,did you ever make inroads into that,I know you've had a huge amount of stuff to do of late,so I'd imagine not,but the type of mite you were pondering would be very relevant here..
> 
> Oh and bro cool to see you about again.:2thumb:


Thanks, Stu!

I haven't used them in quite some time. I did for about 2 1/2 years though. I used to trade a pet store 6 fly cultures for box of 1000 adults. A box is worth $30 here and I was paying less than $6, given the trade. After a couple of years they stopped carrying flies, so I stopped breeding them. I wasn't paying $30 a box. :censor: that! :lol2:

I haven't got to the mites yet, but plan on doing so in the spring. 

Nice links!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ha damn you make me smile buddy:no1:

Cheers on the links,would you have anything on the particular mite you were pondering kiddo.

Glenn as you know already my compo bins feature as a mega culture for various feeders,when the springs are rocking.it's a godsend,I also grab a fair few mites when harvesting then aswell,which is partially why i'm asking

best

Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

This is the one I plan on starting with. Natural Insect Control, NIC specializes in Canadian Beneficial Nematodes, grub control, Beneficial Insects, good bugs to control bad bugs. Organic, environment friendly products for home, garden, orchard and farm.

As you can see from the site, it's Dart frog food HEAVEN and an hour away. :mf_dribble:

I'd like to see a post by you guys on wild grub. :2thumb:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> jonny ,John in brum has made some inroads into silver fish culturing:
> 
> Has Anyone Tried Firebrats For Their Frogs Etc (Similar To Silverfish) - Feeding & Supplements - PoisonFrog


Cheers for that Stu. Torch and a plastic pot it is!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Turkistan Roaches did this to Ade's Leuc viv, some nymphs got in and over a period of time have bred and eaten most of his leucs, gutting
*
From*











*To This*


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Roaches eating the frogs???? 


Thanks 
Dane


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

Meefloaf said:


> Turkistan Roaches did this to Ade's Leuc viv, some nymphs got in and over a period of time have bred and eaten most of his leucs, gutting
> *
> From*
> 
> ...


Just seen this on FA was going to post a note scary thought. 

Dave BigBoots


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

Well I've bought some ready made mix for the fly will have another bash worth a try I guess.

Dave BigBoots


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

What medium have u tried before mate? 


Thanks 
Dane


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> What medium have u tried before mate?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Dane


I've tried various ones ou nake up yourself I've found on here and other sites

Dave BigBoots


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Good god that's horrible Joe.

Ade heartfelt sorrow here if you see this.

So I guess we stay clear of tiny things that get bigger.

Stu


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

BigBoots said:


> I've tried various ones ou nake up yourself I've found on here and other sites
> 
> Dave BigBoots


I was going to tell you when I pop round but I've had as much success with just using rolled porridge oats mixed with water as I have from buying pre-made medium. What I would say to give a try is culturing mels. I sometimes have a nightmare with hydei cultures not starting going or giving up the ghost after producing maggotts. Mels on the other hand seem to explode, if you can culture them in high numbers and pad out your feeding regime with your aphids then you're on to a winner. Throw woods and springtails in the mix and I think you're set without having to worry about culturing hydei.

Edit: Also, I've seen your PM, just trying to work out if I can get round Thursday but I'll let you know :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Good god that's horrible Joe.
> 
> Ade heartfelt sorrow here if you see this.
> 
> ...


Thanks Stu, and I think that is the best advice you can give to anybody based on my experience now. You never know what might happen feeding stuff that can grow and multiply. Better to stay safe.

I now have to fill the bottom of the viv to try to drown the remaining nymphs hiding beneath the filter grid sections, or drive them high enough to grab or squish them. I also have a small tank with a small colony of female Turkistans that I managed to catch. Gonna get my payback you see as they are bound either for the fangs of one of my tarantulas, or for the gaping maw of our bearded dragon....:devil:

Ade


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

BigBoots said:


> I've got to say looking at a fly and an aphid *the aphids does look to be meatier and to me more nutritious* and my frogs love them. What is also good is they only eat pea plants so do no harm to me plants in the viv. Even considered and a pea plant in there lol
> 
> Dave BigBoots


though the method you use to germinate the peas and raise the aphids with works, I think you are losing out on more value from the aphids for the frogs. your process only gives out any chemical composition that is in the germinating pea. 
my method is to propagate in a good quality compost. as the plant grows it is absorbing all the trace elements in the soil from which the aphids will "harvest" and so have more mineral content to them and so will be more beneficial to the frogs.
nutritional value is prolonged as the plant is growing too.
my reasoning anyhow :whistling2:


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

s6t6nic6l said:


> though the method you use to germinate the peas and raise the aphids with works, I think you are losing out on more value from the aphids for the frogs. your process only gives out any chemical composition that is in the germinating pea.
> my method is to propagate in a good quality compost. as the plant grows it is absorbing all the trace elements in the soil from which the aphids will "harvest" and so have more mineral content to them and so will be more beneficial to the frogs.
> nutritional value is prolonged as the plant is growing too.
> my reasoning anyhow :whistling2:


Makes sense always learning so what compost would you recommend me to purchase.


Dave BigBoots


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

BigBoots said:


> Makes sense always learning so what compost would you recommend me to purchase.
> 
> 
> Dave BigBoots


Vital Earth Multi Purpose(peat free this), New Horizon Organic & Peat-Free Multi-Purpose composts but you have to remember this can depend on the actual bag (from batch) for quality gotten :devil:

£6ish for a 50/60L bag. plus you could buy b&q multi-purpose which can be very good/very bad, again, depending on the batch they have :crazy:


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## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

s6t6nic6l said:


> though the method you use to germinate the peas and raise the aphids with works, I think you are losing out on more value from the aphids for the frogs. your process only gives out any chemical composition that is in the germinating pea.
> my method is to propagate in a good quality compost. as the plant grows it is absorbing all the trace elements in the soil from which the aphids will "harvest" and so have more mineral content to them and so will be more beneficial to the frogs.
> nutritional value is prolonged as the plant is growing too.
> my reasoning anyhow :whistling2:


How do you harvest the aphids? When I tried something similar I found it difficult to get the aphids out of the culture. If I cut the plant they all jumped off and obviously there's no way to pour them out. 

Using the method I did the guide for, the turn around time for the culture is only a week or so. The idea is to keep the plants small and concentrate the aphids to a small area which will kill the plants pretty quickly. It's the nutrients present in the young plant that we want to fill the aphids with :2thumb:


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

aberreef said:


> How do you harvest the aphids? When I tried something similar I found it difficult to get the aphids out of the culture. If I cut the plant they all jumped off and obviously there's no way to pour them out.
> 
> Using the method I did the guide for, the turn around time for the culture is only a week or so. The idea is to keep the plants small and concentrate the aphids to a small area which will kill the plants pretty quickly. It's the nutrients present in the young plant that we want to fill the aphids with :2thumb:


Pooter, Praying mantis,spider,insect,Reptile,friut flies,livefood | eBay


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Thanks Stu, and I think that is the best advice you can give to anybody based on my experience now. You never know what might happen feeding stuff that can grow and multiply. Better to stay safe.
> 
> I now have to fill the bottom of the viv to try to drown the remaining nymphs hiding beneath the filter grid sections, or drive them high enough to grab or squish them. I also have a small tank with a small colony of female Turkistans that I managed to catch. Gonna get my payback you see as they are bound either for the fangs of one of my tarantulas, or for the gaping maw of our bearded dragon....:devil:
> 
> Ade


I really am gutted mate I have to say I'd probably burn the :censor: and get my pleasure there!! Ade,I just couldn't bare having any in the house after this,proper sad Ade viv was a cracker too. But I'll say a massive hobby thanks for sharing this which cannot be easy as it might just prevent someone else going through the same mill,hardcore mate,but good for you


Nic could you get some pics for us please showing your method on the peas,if it isn't too much trouble,I'd be very grateful. 

I was musing all this early this morning while having a deep and meaningful conversation with a "Happy":blush: . One of the things that crossed my mind was there is a seasonality to how we personally feed our frogs,naturally the wild stuff tends to be more available in the warmer months here,so more gets grabbed and fed. Glenn or possibly Ed showed me a paper on tincs,their diet seemed to vary though the year too if I remember correctly,so thought I'd chuck the concept out there to see what comes back. 

Could we or should we provide a seasonal variation to our phibs,could this be beneficial to them? I guess this might ot just apply to darts either

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

stu, if i win the lottery i'm buying a nice big building in the middle of nowhere and we can run a frogarium


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

aberreef said:


> How do you harvest the aphids? When I tried something similar I found it difficult to get the aphids out of the culture. If I cut the plant they all jumped off and obviously there's no way to pour them out.
> 
> Using the method I did the guide for, the turn around time for the culture is only a week or so. The idea is to keep the plants small and concentrate the aphids to a small area which will kill the plants pretty quickly. It's the nutrients present in the young plant that we want to fill the aphids with :2thumb:


To be honest it's easier than the fly I turn the pot on its side tap it and they fall off ready to go in wherever you want.




Dave BigBoots


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

my method will be to........ I should have stated as I am waiting on the propagator to arrive.
i will be doing a rotating cycle with these tubs as per pic:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> I really am gutted mate I have to say I'd probably burn the :censor: and get my pleasure there!! Ade,I just couldn't bare having any in the house after this,proper sad Ade viv was a cracker too. But I'll say a massive hobby thanks for sharing this which cannot be easy as it might just prevent someone else going through the same mill,hardcore mate,but good for you


Aye, that's why I posted it on Facebook, and told Joe he could post about it on here. If I can save others from making my mistake, well then something good comes out of it all. Making mistakes and not telling others just means that other people make the same mistakes.

Trust me though, I have plenty of big tarantulas who's fangs would drip at the sight of some of those adult roaches....:whistling2: The're going to get theirs!

Ade


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## BigBoots (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh my I've finally cracked it come home from work today and I have swarms of flies took the top of one and it's the scene out of world war Z with the zombies swarming over the wall hahah dnt know what I'm gunna do with em all i only have 6 frogs lol 

Dave BigBoots


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