# Bts



## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Thinking of joining the BTS wondered how many people on here are members and wondered if its worthwhile ,i'm thinking it is just thought i'd ask around

Cheers


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## Peloquin (Jan 11, 2009)

I was but let it run out a few years ago.
Some think it's worth it, personally I dont.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

just join for a year and see what you think after all it is only 15 quid or so. the only good thing I find is that you get 4 journals a year but they are not on time most of the time and many of the articles are not the best, that said there are some good ones from time to time. Besides there are other ways to get them!
Im not a member either as I personally do not agree with many of their pollicys and do not like how it is run. 

some people love it, some people find it is ok and some don't care for it at all, so the only real thing to advise is to join for a year and make your own mind up.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Just to echo what Baldpoodle has said .... sign up for a year and see if you like it or not.

Personally i'm no longer a member of the BTS, I have absolutely no issues or quarells as to the way the society is run and I find the journals very informative..... however I do think you can still enjoy all the aspects of "arachnoculture" with out having to be a BTS member.
-P


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm not a member, I'm not really interested in journals, I spend my life reading them so to read them in my free time just seems crazy at the moment. When I've finished uni I might join, as other said, for a year, see what it's like.


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## Lucky Eddie (Oct 7, 2009)

I haven't bothered cos I cant read.


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## samhack (Jan 11, 2009)

I've been tempted to try it for a year. If nothing else it will give me new reading material for the bog...


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## TarantulaAddict (Nov 3, 2010)

samhack said:


> I've been tempted to try it for a year. If nothing else it will give me new reading material for the bog...


:lol2: They provide useful info for breeding certain species and also have some great pictures of T's in their natural habitat's. Well worth joining up if you ask me. :no1:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Ive never had a problem with receiving my journals, but then I pay for them rather than seek someone's hand-me-downs.


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

Peloquin said:


> I was but let it run out a few years ago.
> Some think it's worth it, personally I dont.


Ditto.


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## samhack (Jan 11, 2009)

TarantulaAddict said:


> :lol2: They provide useful info for breeding certain species and also have some great pictures of T's in their natural habitat's. Well worth joining up if you ask me. :no1:


In that case I'll sign up


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

samhack said:


> In that case I'll sign up


When you do join, you get access to most of the back issues for free. Just download them from the bts website. Not sure how many but its many many years worth.


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## oliwilliams (Feb 23, 2010)

I joined and downloaded all the back issues on the site and prob wont renew my membership next year as dont get anything extra other than the 4 journals, and i have enough of them to read for years.


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## spidersnake (Dec 1, 2009)

Is just 4 journals a year all you get? Nothing else? No invites to tarantula themed dinner parties? No invites to tarantula lectures?
£15
& for that all you get is 4 journals for the year & download previous ones so you'll spend months stareing at your computer screen. I'm more interested in my family, my hobby & my life than to spend months reading about the in's & out's of my T's arse lol.
£15 is what I spend on food for my reps, T's, rats & cats every 2 weeks - I'd prefer to keep them fed.
That just my opinion though


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

I'm going to join when i get back to work in a couple of weeks . £15 only works out at 30p a week or three bottles of wine.

I think talk of ONLY 4 journals a year is a strange one as that equates to any hobby magazine you buy off the shelf in fact many are more than £3.50 a month.

Thanks everyone for their input but when you divide the cost up weekly it seems daft not to be a member if you have an interest in tarantulas.


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## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

I think being a member of the BTS is like most clubs, you can sit back and do nothing and just get 4 journals a year

or

you can stick your neck out and make new friends, be part of a club involved in a hobby you enjoy, go to the lectures, go to the show, and increase your knowledge. It's down to each individual and how they like to spend their free time.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Sylvi said:


> or you can stick your neck out and make new friends, be part of a club involved in a hobby you enjoy, go to the lectures, go to the show, and increase your knowledge. It's down to each individual and how they like to spend their free time.


Is this something that can only be done if you are a BTS member?
-P


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Sylvi said:


> I think being a member of the BTS is like most clubs, you can sit back and do nothing and just get 4 journals a year
> 
> or
> 
> you can stick your neck out and make new friends, be part of a club involved in a hobby you enjoy, go to the lectures, go to the show, and increase your knowledge. It's down to each individual and how they like to spend their free time.





Paul c 1 said:


> Is this something that can only be done if you are a BTS member?
> -P


I agree with both of the posts to be fair...... It's up to the individual and what he or she wants to get back from the hobby.........and can be achieved with or without the need to join a club or organisation....: victory:


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## spidersnake (Dec 1, 2009)

Sylvi said:


> I think being a member of the BTS is like most clubs, you can sit back and do nothing and just get 4 journals a year
> 
> or
> 
> you can stick your neck out and make new friends, be part of a club involved in a hobby you enjoy, go to the lectures, go to the show, and increase your knowledge. It's down to each individual and how they like to spend their free time.


I can see your point, its just I dont have much spare time as I'm my disabled wifes carer, my disabled wife has trouble looking after our daughter (in her terrible twos) & to top it off we're on benefits.
The only free time I have is when one or both of my dependants is in bed & that is usually so late the lectures & shows had finished hours ago, not to mention difficulty in travelling to them.
Besides, most information in magazines about the hobby can be found in many good books anyway & as Baldpoodle said, the journals from BTS can be obtained from other scources so there is no real need to actually join them.
I'm not trying to start an arguement or slag BTS off, I was actually thinking of joining until I found out you dont get anything except the journals.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

I think for the main hobby based society's have lost most of their importance with the internet, almost all of what they did was provide social contact between like minded people as well act as a collected source of info both of these are handled just as well by the net and forums now days.

Were they do still have a roll is in acting as a organized voice when the interest they represent come into conflict with authority, in such cases you need a cohesive force and figure heads to put cases forward in a formal manner.


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## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Paul c 1 said:


> Is this something that can only be done if you are a BTS member?
> -P


No of course not, but some people like to belong to a club, and I think you can get more for your £15 than just journals. Its just personal taste.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

it's totally up to the individual what they get out of it.

if every person just sat on their behinds waiting for a journal.....well there wouldn't even BE a journal.

i'v been a member for around 20 years now, sometimes i have time to contribute to something and sometimes not.

to quote a great man ( kind of ):

'ask not what your society can do for you, but what YOU can do for your society ! '


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## PaperWasp (Jul 29, 2009)

Where does all the membership funding go..?


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

I joined a couple of weeks ago, I'm enjoying reading back through the old journal PDF's. Some really good articles in them and as mentioned £15 ain't a great deal of money TBH.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

spidersnake said:


> Besides, most information in magazines about the hobby can be found in many good books anyway & as Baldpoodle said, the journals from BTS can be obtained from other scources so there is no real need to actually join them.
> I'm not trying to start an arguement or slag BTS off, I was actually thinking of joining until I found out you dont get anything except the journals.


I think if your source of the journal is from a free source then it wouldn't matter what the cost of joining BTS was.

Often within the journal are articles submitted by hobbyists with information that is of use to other hobbyists. I know of very little up to date breeding reports in books, especially not of P. metallica, C. cyaneopubescens or M. balfouri.

However... the society offers more than just a journal. The lectures in February (whilst not a cheap weekend) brings together some of the most recognised people in the hobby providing a day of talks. The expo in May brings the largest collection of breeders, sellers and visitors of any invert show in the UK. The expo also offers the facility to grab a free lecture (usually by Andrew Smith). Being a member of BTS not only supports this but enables a small discount to both events. It also enables you to enter the competitions at the expo for such categories as Best Asian Arboreal, Best NW Terrestrial and Best Photography.



Oderus said:


> Where they do still have a roll is in acting as a organized voice when the interest they represent come into conflict with authority, in such cases you need a cohesive force and figure heads to put cases forward in a formal manner.


I think Oderus makes a very good point with his post. When the likes of the press or TV take an angle that sways away from the truth you need a body to correct that.

The BTS also encourages conservation and education and whilst we'd all like to see more of this I don't think the financial backing is there to persue this as much as we'd like.

The forum supplied by the BTS also serves as a good reference, not only for the journals but also for the gallery.

Most of this is supplied free, but helping to fund any society will usually see a broader result in the society's aims.


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## oliwilliams (Feb 23, 2010)

Oderus said:


> Were they do still have a roll is in acting as a organized voice when the interest they represent come into conflict with authority, in such cases you need a cohesive force and figure heads to put cases forward in a formal manner.


But how can a club with around 500 members speak for the entire hobby? this site has more active users than the bts has members.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

oliwilliams said:


> But how can a club with around 500 members speak for the entire hobby? this site has more active users than the bts has members.


If people join the BTS forum it doesn't make them a member of the BTS only a member of the forum, likewise if someone joins the BTS, they are not instant members of the forum.

Just because the forum has 419 active members it doesn't mean that these are just the BTS members who receive the journal.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

oliwilliams said:


> But how can a club with around 500 members speak for the entire hobby? this site has more active users than the bts has members.


What do you mean by active?


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Oderus said:


> Were they do still have a roll is in acting as a organized voice when the interest they represent come into conflict with authority, in such cases you need a cohesive force and figure heads to put cases forward in a formal manner.


this is indeed a good point so why do you never hear anything on this? You hear certain bts commitee members promoting themselfs (not so much the bts IMO) on radio from time to time but otherwise where are, the articles informing us of the great deeds done in representing us when or hobby comes into conflict with authority. 
In 2005 there a debate at the house of commons in regards to the animal welfare bill, and many exotic hobby member groups were invited to offer their views etc. did the bts atend? Well here is a list of the witnesses-
House of Commons - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs - First Report
House of Commons - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs - First Report
see if you can find them.
They may have there own reasons for not going but if I was a member I would have expected for someone from the bts committee to show their face and represent me and would feel quite let down.



> However... the society offers more than just a journal. The lectures in February (whilst not a cheap weekend) brings together some of the most recognised people in the hobby providing a day of talks


this is a dam good idea spoiled only by the price and location! 40 quid is alot of money for your average spider keeper but on top of that drinks are almost 4 quid , yes even a coke, so you are running up a very expensive night! Why the hell it has to be held in 4 star hotel is beyond me. does this represent the average skint hobbist who goes to any lenghs to find a cheap container to hold their spiders in?


> Where does all the membership funding go..?


good question. I know years ago they used to print a rundown of the finances in the journal, but now in about the last at the very least 10 years they have stoped doing this (Is this even legal not to do this?), so maybe members now get this information on a seperate piece of paper? can they say? I expect a fair bit goes towards the printing of the journal (which is done at a good rate I know ) and I know a certain amount goes to pay for the expo, but if how much is left over and what is done with it is anyones guess.


> But how can a club with around 500 members speak for the entire hobby?


more to the point how can an unelected committee speak for the hobby?


> 'ask not what your society can do for you, but what YOU can do for your society ! '


but if they let you is another matter why do you think the committee reads like a husband and wifes club?
sorry if my independent collection of thoughts upset anyone, this is not my intention, just my view and how the bts looks to me.

I still stand by my first post though....join for a year and then see if you are happy with it or not.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

oliwilliams said:


> But how can a club with around 500 members speak for the entire hobby? this site has more active users than the bts has members.


That's a fair point and I would agree that they can not speak for everyone in the hobby (I've not been a member myself since the mid 90's in fact), but I'm talking in general terms with regard to groups giving representation to the hobby to government etc with the FBH being the main example to come to mind.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

I am currently a member having been persuaded to renew when I went to SEAS.

But to me it all comes across as rather stuffy and elitist. The journal sometimes has the odd breeding report which might be of value to some, but mostly consists of the same few old boys going on jollies to Malaysia or wherever and posting their anecdotes which are presumably funny to them, but to those not in the know, are of no interest or amusement value whatsoever.

Also the forum is a complete mess. I know the committee have lives outside the BTS and are presumably busy folks, but why can't they ask somebody else to sort the website and forum out? It needs some of the old stuff archiving so it's not cluttering up the main pages with dead sub forums which nobody ever posts on.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> this is indeed a good point so why do you never hear anything on this? You hear certain bts commitee members promoting themselfs (not so much the bts IMO) on radio from time to time but otherwise where are, the articles informing us of the great deeds done in representing us when or hobby comes into conflict with authority.
> In 2005 there a debate at the house of commons in regards to the animal welfare bill, and many exotic hobby member groups were invited to offer their views etc. did the bts atend? Well here is a list of the witnesses-
> House of Commons - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs - First Report
> House of Commons - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs - First Report
> ...


Again I'm only talking in general terms, I think most people here will know the work the FBH has done, it does seem strange they did not attend the AWB consultations as I'm sure at some time it had been said they did yet it would seem those official links state otherwise?.. 



Baldpoodle said:


> good question. I know years ago they used to print a rundown of the finances in the journal, but now in about the last at the very least 10 years they have stoped doing this (Is this even legal not to do this?), so maybe members now get this information on a seperate piece of paper? can they say? I expect a fair bit goes towards the printing of the journal (which is done at a good rate I know ) and I know a certain amount goes to pay for the expo, but if how much is left over and what is done with it is anyones guess.


Expenses paper/s I believe it is a legal requirement as I've had one from every paid membership group i have had a annual membership of including I'm sure the BTS when I was a member. 



Baldpoodle said:


> more to the point how can an unelected committee speak for the hobby?
> 
> but if they let you is another matter why do you think the committee reads like a husband and wifes club?
> sorry if my independent collection of thoughts upset anyone, this is not my intention, just my view and how the bts looks to me.


I can't remember the committee members ever being voted for by non committee members to honest and the BTS are probably not alone in doing that, but I would agree it should be the case that the members choose from a short list at least.  



Baldpoodle said:


> I still stand by my first post though....join for a year and then see if you are happy with it or not.


That would be my advice also.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Valid points BP and I'll try to find out the answer to some of them in due course.

From memory I believe the choice of venue, whilst accepted as out of some people's budget, reflects what's expected by some of the visitors, notably those that attend to address the visitors.

The AGM is where the committee members are voted in. Unfortunately few people put themselves forward at the AGM to vote, never mind present themselves as alternatives.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> Valid points BP and I'll try to find out the answer to some of them in due course.


good luck.



> From memory I believe the choice of venue, whilst accepted as out of some people's budget, reflects what's expected by some of the visitors, notably those that attend to address the visitors.


I beg to differ on that one when I look back on the list of speakers.



> The AGM is where the committee members are voted in. Unfortunately few people put themselves forward at the AGM to vote, never mind present themselves as alternatives.


committee members are not voted in at the AGM and to get on the committee you have to be invited by the committee. Normal members do not and have never voted on committee places. Saying this the society is not obliged to hold committee elections and it doesn't have to run in such a democratic way, but it is one of the reasons why I do not join or accept them as a repersentaive of this hobby.
Now you bring up the AGM I have often wondered why they never publish anything about what things they decied upon in the bts journal? I always get the impression they are very cloak and dager about the running of the society and in the very half arsed way they advertise the AGM (which I see has only really got a mention in the last few years on the web site) its like they don't really want people to turn up and rock the boat so to speak, when infact it should be a big date in the calender and advertised as such, because if you are a member then you should care what you are a member off.


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## oliwilliams (Feb 23, 2010)

I was told at the Bts expo when I asked how many paying members they have and although they have a turn over rate the base line paid members stays around 500


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> Valid points BP and I'll try to find out the answer to some of them in due course.


so any news on this?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Not as yet BP, Ive been busy with life, but I haven't forgotten.
Unfortunately my opportunity of talking to at least 1 committee member has fallen through but I'll grab one for a few questions at some point.

Its my personal opinion that you expect a hell of a lot from a voluntary group, not funded by anything more than donations. You regularly take the opportunity to knock them for what they do not, yet its not balanced by what they do, even within a limited capacity. However, I think its not a case of what they do or don't do that is the issue here. Something tells me history has a strong influence in your platform which makes it hard to have a balanced argument against.

As an example you have, on numerous occassions, you have stated that the journey is usually late. At what point does a quarterly become a "late" arrival. You've also mentioned before that the information in the journals has become rather lacking in meat, and yet you still manage to read it, and you also berate the forum yet are obviously aware of what is current.

Within the last 12-24 months the BTS asked for opinions on how things could be improved. A number of things were raised and some of them have been addressed. At the last BTS expo people were invited to have a dialogue on what they'd like to see within the BTS. This was advertised in the forum and provided anyone participating to jump the queue and get in early. These kind of opportunities are what could shape the BTS, not slinging mud from the distance of an unrelated forum. I agree with some of your points, things could be improved, but they'll rarely show any results unless the points are made directly to them or by actively changing things by participation.


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## davidfitch (Nov 19, 2008)

Although i have now let my membership run out i would say join i always found the journals good reading (and preferable to ihs journals) and looked forward to something new to read. I'm only not a member now due to laziness on my part. Think i'll rejoin tomorrow!! if i remember! :2thumb:


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## davidfitch (Nov 19, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Not as yet BP, Ive been busy with life, but I haven't forgotten.
> Unfortunately my opportunity of talking to at least 1 committee member has fallen through but I'll grab one for a few questions at some point.
> 
> Its my personal opinion that you expect a hell of a lot from a voluntary group, not funded by anything more than donations. You regularly take the opportunity to knock them for what they do not, yet its not balanced by what they do, even within a limited capacity. However, I think its not a case of what they do or don't do that is the issue here. Something tells me history has a strong influence in your platform which makes it hard to have a balanced argument against.
> ...


I agree with everything you said and hope, once i feel i have a bit more experience, i would be able to contribute an article to them After all its the hobbyists that keep most of the clubs going and without this imput, without the financial gain, how much knowledge can you really expect to gain about keeping inverts of any kind


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## Brian J (Jun 23, 2011)

When I kept tarantulas I was a member of the BTS and found the journals informative and I really enjoyed the expo. How ever I have to agree with BP they are quite elitist when your a member you still don't feel like a member there is a sence of the old boys club about them. 

I do however think if most hobbyists joined they would be a good voice for the hobby I think at the moment they can't do as much as they could do with the full backing of the keepers and breeders.

My advice would be join for a year and make a informed choice.

Brian


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> Not as yet BP, Ive been busy with life, but I haven't forgotten.
> Unfortunately my opportunity of talking to at least 1 committee member has fallen through but I'll grab one for a few questions at some point.


Why do I get the impression that you are anoyed that I asked? I never knew you were waiting to talk with a committee member face to face kudos to you for this but was expec ting more along the lines with email as this is often a quicker medium, not that you are obliged to do this anyway face to face or othwerwise but as you said you would follow this all up I was only asking on if there was any progress.



Poxicator said:


> Its my personal opinion that you expect a hell of a lot from a voluntary group, not funded by anything more than donations. You regularly take the opportunity to knock them for what they do not, yet its not balanced by what they do, even within a limited capacity.


Yoda? lol My questions are base around what they claim to do though are they not? Also asking what they do with the funding is not expecting a hell of alot, its asking a basic question as to what happens with the membership money or any donation you make to them, not really a big deal is it? 

BTW if this was the case as you put it then I don't think my advice to the OP in this thread would have been to join for a year and see what you think, No I think it would have been more along the lines that the bts is rubbish and there is no need to join etc, but as it is I said otherwise, I wonder why this is?


Poxicator said:


> However, I think its not a case of what they do or don't do that is the issue here.


I think this is what the thread is about or?


Poxicator said:


> Something tells me history has a strong influence in your platform which makes it hard to have a balanced argument against.


Something could tell you anything it likes but it bears no influance on the answer they give.


Poxicator said:


> As an example you have, on numerous occassions, you have stated that the journey is usually late. At what point does a quarterly become a "late" arrival.


Which it often is and I would say after 3 months from the last isshue and it has often been the case you wait longer.


Poxicator said:


> You've also mentioned before that the information in the journals has become rather lacking in meat, and yet you still manage to read it, and you also berate the forum yet are obviously aware of what is current..


If I wasn't aware of some of the current stuff on the forum or if I didn't manage to read the journal I wouldn't be able to make the comments in the first place so I don't quite get your point here?



Poxicator said:


> Within the last 12-24 months the BTS asked for opinions on how things could be improved. A number of things were raised and some of them have been addressed.


Good stuff examples?


Poxicator said:


> At the last BTS expo people were invited to have a dialogue on what they'd like to see within the BTS. This was advertised in the forum and provided anyone participating to jump the queue and get in early..


Thats great and what did these *12* people ask for and decied upon in those *15* minutes? Who were these 12 people? what was the outcome?



Poxicator said:


> These kind of opportunities are what could shape the BTS, not slinging mud from the distance of an unrelated forum.


The something that tells you things about me must be the same something that tells me that by the way to defend the bts come what may, that you are desprete to get on the committee on browny points or something or other. You may noticed that all I doing is bringing up a few criticisms and a few questions and nothing more, but if this is seen as slinging mud rather than just answer the comments in an adult way I think that you will make a great committee member! If this forum is unrelated then you should not advertise the show or lectures on this site either. as this is an invert forum and tarantulas are inverts and the bts deals with tarantulas I would say this is all pretty related.


Poxicator said:


> I agree with some of your points, things could be improved, but they'll rarely show any results unless the points are made directly to them or by actively changing things by participation.


Well if you agree with some of my points then as you are a member you can bring them up can't you? Like I have said before I think, many of my points are not new at all and have been brought up by different people in the passed with the result of no actions or no intrest with no real answers as to why. But I guess this is the memberships fault if they do not want to know about the thing they are a member off then thats up to them, but there is no problem with an outsider questioning it is there? or is there?


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

the minutes to the AGM used to be published in the journal, but after many complaints from the members this was discontinued (i dont see why to be honest)
in the future the minutes are going to be available to all members via the members section of the BTS website and this includes this expenditure report.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

lol the number of times I have read that and yet still to see them! As for the complaints well even if this is true then why not print on a seperate paper at least an overview on how the finances are used, new decisions made, etc etc.....ah let me guess cost of paper?:whistling2:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Baldpoodle said:


> lol the number of times I have read that and yet still to see them! As for the complaints well even if this is true then why not print on a seperate paper at least an overview on how the finances are used, new decisions made, etc etc.....ah let me guess cost of paper?:whistling2:


the journals are sent direct from the printers, so printing extra sheets would put extra costs.




> lol the number of times I have read that and yet still to see them!


why would you? you're not a member :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

I thought you had to details the clubs spending if people pay membership? I may be wrong but I had it in my head that it was all part of the AGM etc.

I know we detail our club income and expenditure once a year so members can see what we do with their hard earned.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> the journals are sent direct from the printers, so printing extra sheets would put extra costs.


For a brief overview added to or attached to one journal in a year how much extra would be be?





[email protected] said:


> why would you? you're not a member :Na_Na_Na_Na:


so if I was a member would I see this?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

In response to your multi-quote, I have never advertised the BTS on here or any other forum. I've certainly not become annoyed, I just think its rather irritating to continually ask the same questions and your same responses over and over without going to the source, as I've suggested before. I intend looking into some of the things that have been asked, but I have no particular timeframe in which to do so.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

These threads always end up being so inane. Rather than chat about the BTS it becomes a one-up contest between the usual suspects. Which I don't understand either way (positive, negative) since no-one here is on the committee so it's not your work being praised / critiqued. 

My opinion of the BTS magazine is that it is a good hobbyist publication and useful for keeping up to date with general hobby issues. For £15 it's about middle of the road in price. 

If you want academic stuff, I'd subscribe to the JoA instead or the BAS. 

Lately, I have been considering scrapping my BTS membership in favour of academic societies as the cost of joining all these various things mounts up when you are a member of a half dozen or so.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

I couldn't have said it any better myself Grant tbh, your first paragraph fully echoes my views on this topic.
-P


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## oliwilliams (Feb 23, 2010)

Baldpoodle said:


> Thats great and what did these *12* people ask for and decied upon in those *15* minutes? Who were these 12 people? what was the outcome?


I was in fact one of the 12 that was asked to do the sit down thing


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> In response to your multi-quote, I have never advertised the BTS on here or any other forum. I've certainly not become annoyed, I just think its rather irritating to continually ask the same questions and your same responses over and over without going to the source, as I've suggested before.


got it you not anoyed just irritated and like I have said before I have ask the committee in the passed with no luck!



Poxicator said:


> I intend looking into some of the things that have been asked, but I have no particular timeframe in which to do so.


 I have no problem with this at all and infact it matters not to me if you decied not to, but as you said you would (and you can change your mind if you like) stop getting so irritated just because I ask if you have heard anything from time to time.


You are quite right GBR, but I see no harm in my questions so why shouldn't I ask?



> I was in fact one of the 12 that was asked to do the sit down thing


cool so can you say anything?


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks for the kicking much appreciatted.:bash:. Nothing like being made welcome.:welcome:
A fine job you guys do on here! A real feeling of friendship...and you say we are elite?

I dare say that you will tear this post to shreds.Knock yourselves out guys.


Ray Hale: (Real Name)
PM me ( If you want a sensible response to all the issues raised in this thread)

British Tarantula Society Commitee


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Ray hale said:


> Thanks for the kicking much appreciatted.:bash:. Nothing like being made welcome.:welcome:
> A fine job you guys do on here! A real feeling of friendship...and you say we are elite?
> 
> I dare say that you will tear this post to shreds.Knock yourselves out guys.
> ...


 
Ray, with all due respect, i'm slightly disappointed in your response to this thread. I thought you may have taken a little time out to address some of the issues raised and/or refute the negative posts on here. I get the impression you have lumped "us" all into one group, .... people are entitled to have an opinion on this subject and i don't think every post on here has been negative, even with the handfull of those who have given their reasons for not being a BTS member.
-P


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

considering ray has the bts forum to talk on, it's understandable he doesn't visit here much.
he has given an email for people who want to take their points/questions further..
i think that's enough


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

Hi Paul, you are absolutly right and I apologise to those forum members who had valid comments.Some of which I actually agree with and I responded in haste after someone called me to inform of the thread. I have just walked in from work so I will respond to the thread in a proper manner when I get a moment. I have always found this forum to be useful, informative and supportive of its members of which I am one.

Forgive my abruptness in my original response.

Cheers

Ray Hale


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

shame about the first response but great stuff answers coming at last.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Im a member of the BTS and find it fantastic. Never had a problem with the guys on there and found them a great help. Lovely people who do come into the chat quite a lot and have a friendly chat with us lot. Tbh i would rather sit looking at the bts site than on here.


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

The old boys club you get in most hobbies or sports.
In falconry hawk owners were looked down upon by long wingers ( falcon owners .. 
A well known falconry mag is £16.00 a year for four mags.
So this hobby is no where near as bad as falconry and like Pete says if no one tells the bts how are they to know ( crystal balls don't work ) and if you really want a pricey day out join the bfc and your meet some real ( look down the nose ) groups.
Me I'm joining the bts and if I'm not happy I'll tell Ray or some one and give them a chance to deal with it..

That's my pennies worth.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

jb1962 said:


> The old boys club you get in most hobbies or sports.
> In falconry hawk owners were looked down upon by long wingers ( falcon owners ..
> A well known falconry mag is £16.00 a year for four mags.
> So this hobby is no where near as bad as falconry and like Pete says if no one tells the bts how are they to know ( crystal balls don't work ) and if you really want a pricey day out join the bfc and your meet some real ( look down the nose ) groups.
> ...


I cant see you being unhappy with it tbh. They are a great bunch of people who are always willing to help no matter what. Mark Pennell for one bends over backwards to help people


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Tbh i would rather sit looking at the bts site than on here.


with 13,625 post in just over 3 years are you sure?



selina20 said:


> Mark Pennell for one bends over backwards to help people.


don't get me wrong as I have nothing againts the bloke personly, but he is not a person I would want to represent this hobby for effical/envoirmental reasons.

@jb1962 I agree hense my original reply of join it and see what you think.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Baldpoodle said:


> don't get me wrong as I have nothing againts the bloke personly, but he is not a person I would want to represent this hobby for effical/envoirmental reasons.


Such as?


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Well it has to be you GRB


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> don't get me wrong as I have nothing againts the bloke personly, but he is not a person I would want to represent this hobby for effical/envoirmental reasons.





GRB said:


> Such as?












:lol2:


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Oderus said:


> image
> 
> :lol2:


LMAO! That's awesome.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Oderus said:


> image
> 
> :lol2:


quite true I shouldn't really have brought anything up, maybe best just to wipe my comment.:whistling2:


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> quite true I shouldn't really have brought anything up, maybe best just to wipe my comment.:whistling2:


Really you think so... and I thought you were a champ a real contender or maybe you just can't pay the price, or a good solicitor har har :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Oderus said:


> Really you think so... and I thought you were a champ a real contender or maybe you just can't pay the price, or a good solicitor har har :Na_Na_Na_Na:


lol could be but its only slanderous if it isn't true. Besides Ive not said anything yet.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> lol could be but its only slanderous if it isn't true. Besides Ive not said anything yet.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I think I'll quit while I'm ahead all the same :bash:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Colosseum said:


> Well it has to be you GRB


I'm not sure I follow you dude?


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

No I don't know what I mean either im mixed up on this thread for some reason


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BP i dont just post in this section i also use the other section for my other animals. I primarily use the BTS for invert stuff


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

Ok I have had time to read through this thread in detail and I can see that there are some very valid criticisms levelled at the BTS. It is my intention to answer Mr Poodle’s questions and the others who have posted. However, and you may read into this what you will, I will post my response on the BTS Forum under the thread heading "*Everything you always wanted to know about the BTS*". I am aware that this may cause some raised eyebrows and indeed prompt further criticism but my reasons for doing it this way are as follows:

1. My loyalties lie with BTS members and as such any issues raised with the running of their club concerns them all and they have the right to see them.

2. I intend to answer every issue raised in depth over a period of time and I feel that doing so on the Reptile Forum the thread may very quickly become off topic and loose its impetus and become confusing. I have no wish to or do I intend to enter into a slanging match with any Reptile Forum Uk contributer.

3. Whereas I accept many of the comments made as valid and deserving of answers I do not feel that the BTS or myself should be asked to explain ourselves to a nameless, faceless contributor of another forum. What incentive is there for us to enter into sensible dialogue when the other party has the power to reply with any comment they wish anonymously and without recourse. I understand and accept Reptile Forum UK's policy on anonominity but if we are to move this debate forward I can see no sense in posting off the cuff one liners that do nothing but inflame those they are aimed at. It is however clear that there is a lot of misunderstanding and innacuracies being quoted on the thread and we would like our members to be sure of the way in which we do buisness as well as yourselves. 
These are my reasons. If Bald Poodle is serious about wanting to know the answers to his and others questions I would ask him to accept this and enter into a sensible and productive dialogue on our forum. If not then I can do little else. I will post a link.
I intend to make a start at the weekend as I am busy with work at the moment. 

Many thanks 

Ray Hale
BTS Committee


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

sounds good to me.:2thumb: and after, if it raises anymore questions I will ask them there to be sure.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

CLOSURE? :war:


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Ray hale said:


> Whereas I accept many of the comments made as valid and deserving of answers I do not feel that the BTS or myself should be asked to explain ourselves to a nameless, faceless contributor of another forum. What incentive is there for us to enter into sensible dialogue when the other party has the power to reply with any comment they wish anonymously and without recourse. I understand and accept Reptile Forum UK's policy on anonominity but if we are to move this debate forward I can see no sense in posting off the cuff one liners that do nothing but inflame those they are aimed at.


 
I must say I do very much agree with this, that's one thing I do stand by with the BTS is the "real name" policy. It's very easy to sit behind a computer screen and throw critism and flame others etc,..... this is absolutley fine with me if there is the foundations to do it ..... but at least say it with some conviction and sign your name or state your name.

People on this forum know who I am, and I have nothing to hide on here but with this in mind I most certainly will not hesitate to speak my mind if needed.
-P


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

^+1
we don't all know each others names, but we do know the people on our subforums 
the 1st name thing is a good idea, but what's to say somebody won't make a fake name with their email?


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

you could just as easy make up a name and post under that saying its your real name and besides its no secret and pretty well known (at least I thoought) my names Damien so who hideing behind a user name? Take selina for example, from her posts saying how much she uses the bts site you would expect to find her name on almost every thread, but its quite hard to even find the name selina on any thread so she could be posting as a different name on there for all we know (not saying she is just giving an example).
If my critism go on to improve the bts why would anyone complain about this? Don't think I have flamed anyone yet unless you see critism as flaming?


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> you could just as easy make up a name and post under that saying its your real name and besides its no secret and pretty well known (at least I thoought) my names Damien so who hideing behind a user name?
> If my critism go on to improve the bts why would anyone complain about this? Don't think I have flamed anyone yet unless you see critism as flaming?


BP it wasn't aimed at you mate but you can think what you want fella! .... 95% of what you tend to say on here I agree with and your a top contributor to this section .... I'm simply highlighting the fact that it can be very easy to run and shoot your mouth off on here in the security that nobody knows who you are,.... when people don't know who you are it's very easy to turn into an internet dickhead!
-P


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Paul c 1 said:


> BP it wasn't aimed at you mate but you can think what you want fella! .... 95% of what you tend to say on here I agree with and your a top contributor to this section .... I'm simply highlighting the fact that it can be very easy to run and shoot your mouth off on here in the security that nobody knows who you are,.... when people don't know who you are it's very easy to turn into an internet dickhead!
> -P


Beautifully put :lol2:


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## Peter_Kirk (Apr 6, 2008)

At the risk of being accused of back-slapping or part of the 'old boys' network (I'm not THAT old) I want to say that I am fully in support of Ray Hale's last post in this thread.

I too will be available to answer questions regarding the BTS as, I am sure, so will other committee members - particularly in respect of the Journal, it's timely (or otherwise) publication and it's content.

As Ray has said, this will quite rightly take place on the BTS Forum.

And lastly, without particularly wanting to drag it up again and not something I will discuss further (irrespective of any responses that come this way): BP - your comment about Mark Pennell was a really cheap shot. That's all.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Peter_Kirk said:


> And lastly, without particularly wanting to drag it up again and not something I will discuss further (irrespective of any responses that come this way): BP - your comment about Mark Pennell was a really cheap shot. That's all.


yep you are probably right and cheap shots come from cheap shots!


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## Haole (Jul 13, 2011)

Do you get a badge to show people that you are a member?


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Right i started this thread and now request it be closed . I asked for views on joining and its turned into a riot.

I will be joining in the next couple of days and so job done !!!


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Just joined so thread was worthwhile :2thumb:


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

As promised I have begun my series of replies to the issues raised here. This can be found on the BTS Forum under the title "Everything you ever wanted to know about the BTS":2thumb:
www.thebts.co.uk


Please take a look and respond if you wish but I would ask you to bear in mind I have more posts to make and I WILL answer all of your qestions in them. Please keep it sensible. After all this is our hobby to and we, like yourselves, want to enjoy it.

Many thanks

Ray Hale
BTS


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Great stuff Mr Hale I am so glad I raised these issues and look forward to reading more about the bts.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I suggest you two cut the foreplay and pack it in, I'm losing patience for it as no doubt everyone else is. 

Ray: Interesting read. I'm less interested in that sort of thing, but look forward to the governing body interaction. 

I always thought trying to merge promotion of the hobby with conservation, on the back of how the average hobbyist is perceived, to be a bit of an uphill struggle. Plus, all we hear about is the failures rather than the successes, so that'd be interesting.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

well so much for fairness. I now get this if I want to post on the bts site? does anyone else have this problem?

Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Baldpoodle said:


> well so much for fairness. I now get this if I want to post on the bts site? does anyone else have this problem?
> 
> Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.


i think it probably happens to everybody.
just to reduce spam and stuff


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

It never happened to the first post I made on the "all you wanted to know about the bts" thread. 

Shame.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Baldpoodle said:


> It never happened to the first post I made on the "all you wanted to know about the bts" thread.
> 
> Shame.


weird :L


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Ray hale said:


> If Bald Poodle is serious about wanting to know the answers to his and others questions I would ask him to accept this and enter into a sensible and productive dialogue on our forum. If not then I can do little else. I will post a link.


unfortunate that any side of a sensible and productive dialogue from my side has to first go though a moderators aproval before it gets posted, so making it very one sided to say the least.
I guess if any other questions arise I will have to ask here and hope someone can help me further.
Ah well so is life.:sad:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Baldpoodle said:


> unfortunate that any side of a sensible and productive dialogue from my side has to first go though a moderators aproval before it gets posted, so making it very one sided to say the least.
> I guess if any other questions arise I will have to ask here and hope someone can help me further.
> Ah well so is life.:sad:


That is so they can answer your questions lol


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

I am little confused here. I can see you have posted on our thread Bald Poodle. What message are you getting when you post? Im not sure why but I can check with Mark. No one is trying to stop you posting on our site as the whole point is to clear up misunderstandings. Please Pm me and I will try to help.
Cheers
Ray


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Ray hale said:


> I am little confused here. I can see you have posted on our thread Bald Poodle. What message are you getting when you post? Im not sure why but I can check with Mark. No one is trying to stop you posting on our site as the whole point is to clear up misunderstandings. Please Pm me and I will try to help.
> Cheers
> Ray


I get this:-

*Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.*

Now that it has been approved it is now up in the place where I posted it but quite a shame it needs to be looked at before hand. How can I change an oppinion, if any different oppinion I may have to begin with has to be approved to see if it is suitable to be viewed? It as if I would only be allowed to ask the questions the bts approves me to ask!


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## Mark Pennell (Sep 24, 2008)

Baldpoodle said:


> I get this:-
> 
> *Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.*
> 
> Now that it has been approved it is now up in the place where I posted it but quite a shame it needs to be looked at before hand. How can I change an oppinion, if any different oppinion I may have to begin with has to be approved to see if it is suitable to be viewed? It as if I would only be allowed to ask the questions the bts approves me to ask!


Damien
That moderation was inplace ages ago when you were posting some rather against the rules posts in reply to thread by Marie.

I will happliey remove the moderation queue if you like I would have explained this you this personally, all you had to is ask. 

Are there any of your posts edited or changed? they would only be edited if the content contraveins the rules and regulations.

Mark


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## Mark Pennell (Sep 24, 2008)

Damien
The moderation queue is removed, why this only pops up now and not when you first posted is unsure, but I can tell you now that you were on this list for well over a year or more. Well from your last post previous to this thread etc. dated 04-04-10 11:28 PM 

However since then we have updated the forum software and CMS systems so all the permissions set were at best iffy.

So you can post your questions, and they will show in real time.


Mark


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah BP the moderation thing has been on there a while alot of sites have it now.


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

Glad to see it's being left open while there are issues to be dealt with .


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

as far as i'm aware no one merged any thread to do with this one, it certainly wasnt me.

the OP messaged me the other day, we discussed the possible closure of the thread and it was decided between myself and the OP to keep it open as it was covering other issues after i'd cleaned it up :2thumb:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Mark Pennell said:


> Damien
> The moderation queue is removed, why this only pops up now and not when you first posted is unsure, but I can tell you now that you were on this list for well over a year or more. Well from your last post previous to this thread etc. dated 04-04-10 11:28 PM
> 
> However since then we have updated the forum software and CMS systems so all the permissions set were at best iffy.
> ...


cool, nice one cheers. strange that it never came up on the first reply I made on that thread but did in the second? but thats technic for you I guess.

back to normal now cheers.


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## Haole (Jul 13, 2011)

Have they ever published the year end accounts or have they been kept hidden?


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## Haole (Jul 13, 2011)

It has been a good thread though .....you have to admit that.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Haole said:


> Have they ever published the year end accounts or have they been kept hidden?


they are freely available to any BTS member and not available to non members

:2thumb:


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> they are freely available to any BTS member and not available to non members
> 
> :2thumb:


How does one go about getting hold of them Steve?

Would be interesting to see


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

send an e-mail to Angela Hale with your BTS membership number and details and bobs yer uncle :2thumb:


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> send an e-mail to Angela Hale with your BTS membership number and details and bobs yer uncle :2thumb:


Ok, Cheers, Will do that later


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## Ray hale (Sep 24, 2008)

If you are full BTS member then you are entitled to a copy of the end of year accounts. We issue them to any member who turns up at the AGM (ask Ray Gabriel) and send them to any member who requests them. 
I have explained eleswhere about costings but we are happy to incorporate them in the journal if the majority of the membership so wishes.

Ray


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## Phasmid_Phriend (Nov 20, 2010)

Well I've just used the PayPal option and applied for membership. : victory: Have to say I was very impressed with the BTS show I attended this year, (and wrote as much in the visitor's book), and I look forward to letting the chap on the door know that he was right in what was said when he rubber-stamped my hand: "Another one bites the dust!"

Never thought I would ever own a tarantula; and now I have a few I'm wondering why I ever took so long to get into the hobby..?!?


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