# Interested in these hides?



## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi everyone im just wondering if you good people would like to give me your opinion on some hides i have made.

i have decided im going to have a go at making hides ect. to start with and then if all goes well increase my product range. Im thinking of creating my own website and also listing them on ebay

Consider this market research your helping me with :2thumb:

If its crap, tell me why.
If it can be improved in any way, tell me how.
If you like it, great 

This is one of my 5 prototypes






















































For something this size id be looking at around £20-25 including p&p

Its hand carved polystyrene with cement and non-toxic pigment within, not painted.

Thanks in advance 

Rob


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

28 views and not one opinion, not the rfuk i know by now 

It would be very welcomed, spent ages on this thing lol


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## catch and release (Jun 1, 2011)

Honest opinion, very nice but too expensive.


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## henryfreston (Jun 14, 2010)

catch and release said:


> Honest opinion, very nice but too expensive.


^this!

And it would be better if it was a little more private. The hide is too open if you ask me. I would pay £7 for that tops.


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

£7 thats less than exo-terra plastic stuff, this is very sturdy, holds heat (thermal mass) and looks much better in my opinion.

Would £15 be more appealing or would that still be a no go?

Many i see in the shops (which apparently sell well lol) are poly painted in water based paints. I just cant see the longevity of them

Right so more closed its something i had considered and one of my others (il stick a pic up soon) is more enclosed

I have been looking at what people have tended to make them selves as a start point.

Thanks very much for the feedback  its a learning curve


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

westie1 said:


> i have decided im going to have a go at making hides ect. to start with and then if all goes well increase my product range. Im thinking of creating my own website and also listing them on ebay
> theres next to no profit making in building these so if you think its a get rich quick scheme i wouldnt get my hopes up but **** luck
> 
> This is one of my 5 prototypes
> ...





westie1 said:


> Would £15 be more appealing or would that still be a no go?
> defo a better price range
> 
> Many i see in the shops (which apparently sell well lol) are poly painted in water based paints. I just cant see the longevity of them
> i havent seen poly ones in stores?..... they're either resin, fibre-glass or a type of porcalin





westie1 said:


> 28 views and not one opinion
> give people a chance....you only had it on a couple of hours: victory:
> i got 106 views on my new thread a the mo and only 4 comments  so go and comment on mine now :2thumb:







it does look nice but selling them is a whole different ball game.
it not a get rich quick scheme.... by the amout of time you put into building these on a larger scale sometimes it seems pointless
i dont think there anything wrong with the one you have shown us except the price, i personally would have the insides darker (black ideally)


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

yeah getting rich quick is not my idea, i work in the industry and would be able to stock them in my shop and over the net also. 

I could have just fired these onto ebay but thats not my intention, i want to produce something people want, well made and well price.
Thats why im looking for constructive input such as this 

I like making them and iv seen your stuff, you know how messy this stuff is and that not everyone can be bothered with it.

They were handmade by the shop owner the painted poly ones and when i approached the shop about mine they were interested in mine as a replacement for theres as they get shredded.

Yes i could also make something 10 times better for £25 of materials but were talking about labour + p&p + materials.

The insides and base are bare poly at the min as i was getting used to the way cement works in this method and pigment ratios ect. I realised that the previous layer quickly dehydrates the layer your adding at the time and so on 

And i was alittle impatient i agree but i was excited to see what people thought lmao


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## plaiceandchips (Jan 18, 2011)

Not too sure what animal would use it tbh, too open for a snake and too small for a lizard 
Perhaps paint it black inside and enclose it a bit more and I'm sure my snakes would love it!


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

westie1 said:


> They were handmade by the shop owner the painted poly ones, and when i approached the shop about mine they were interested in mine as a replacement for theres as they get shredded.
> i thought you meant branded stuff
> 
> Yes i could also make something 10 times better for £25 of materials but were talking about labour + p&p + materials.
> i did mean £25 as a whole including the materials, labour and P&P


i know you want to make profit but some people(customers) want to pay pretty much for just the materials and maybe P&P they seem to think theres no work involved in making things like this.

the way i work is i work out the estimate of the materials and *then i add 20% labour fee *then add P&P. i dont do all this hourly rate stuff like i've seen on here in the past ....materials costs £30 + £7per hour(i spent 14hours on it ) so it cost almost £150 plus the P&P

for something like that, the way i would price it up would be....
poly free-£1's worth
cement 20p worth or grout £2's worth
paint £1 or pigment 50p's worth
sealent £1
so mine would be about the £7 mark

all my first things i built i done for free, i done backgrounds for free,i gave plenty of stuff away(basking spots, ledges, hides etc)....just to get actual product feedback (good or bad)

sorry i'm rambling again:whistling2:

edit...you still aint commented on my threads


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

I see what your saying mate but at that cost your basically wasting your time making them and the purchaser has WAY got the best bargain.

If you can and are happy to sell them that cheap thats up to you and id be happy to buy one lol but im looking at volume, having my staple lines and then offering custom stuff done to a picture ect. later on. 

It has to benefit both sides.

Iv been a stalker on here for soooo long now looking at all of the hobby and the diy stuff such as the jurasic park stuff is very inventive, its great tbh.

Il take a look at your tonight when i get home


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

westie1 said:


> I see what your saying mate but at that cost your basically wasting your time making them and the purchaser has WAY got the best bargain.
> 
> If you can and are happy to sell them that cheap thats up to you and id be happy to buy one lol but im looking at volume, having my staple lines and then offering custom stuff done to a picture ect. later on.
> 
> ...


exactly, 
as i said theres not much profit in it....
you can either sale ....
very few at a high price so you may sale 3 and make £20 profit each, 
or loads at cheaper price, sale 30 and make £2 profit on each.it dont have to be that drastic

when starting i would defo do the cheaper option just to gain some business....get feedback on the products, 
when i do new ranges.... i normally only charge 10% rather than the usual 20%, evengive them free to certain well know people in the rep/invert world just so people take them as long as they fill a survey about the product

thanks (for the jp comment) but what i put on here are mostly nice simple home stuff that anyone can do by just using poly, foam and grout but most my money comes from professional backgrounds as people appreciate the time and effort,
whereas things like basking spots, ledges etc people want for £10-£15 max

if your planning on selling...not just on here but especially on ebay or in a pet store, just make sure you get a good laywer or insurance

can i ask what you used to seal it? and what cement?


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## ChaCha (Feb 25, 2012)

It looks lovely, and relistic. I couldnt make anything like this and Im always trying to make things. Well done :2thumb:
But sorry to say I think the price is pretty steep too, if i was loaded Id buy it but I quiver when I have to hand over a fiver Lol.
Good luck though, dont give up. :grin1:


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

Thanks very much 

The price was put up to assess opinion as was the product its self, a start point if you will lol.

Price - check
interior colour - check
entrance diameter - check

Thanks for the kind words 
rob


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I think they look really good : victory: Would defo be intrested at a lower price.


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

:2thumb: now I know people like them i am going to be carrying out some more development, looking at the legalaties and bringing in more designs. Thanks for the positive feedback. I will also have some samples for review for those who just cover p&p when I'm ready :2thumb:


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

Sorry to be a pest but would people prefer to have there hides ect varnished to aid cleaning.
Backgrounds and such (vertical surfaces) i would probably refrain as i could offer moss growth as an example and in realistic vivs beading water looks terrible unless people want it.
But for basking spots and hides what is preferable?

Thanks in advance 
Rob


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

In my opinion there's already loads of better viv decor you can buy off the shelf for cheap prices from the big online retailers. Why do you think anyone would want these? 

Unless you're undercutting the likes of exo-terra, pro-rep etc in price (significantly) or you're offering a unique feature which their products don't have, and charging a similar price, it's not going to work.

Your best bet would be to design an innovative, unique product or look at commissioning custom work. But then you have to compete with the likes of ch4dg who we all know does fantastic work as he's built up a 'fan base' on the forum already.


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

LOL thanks for that, oh and you cant like a comment about yourself thats just shocking.

Ant;

You must have always had great ideas and been an all round superstar.

Il just leave you to your shop bought viv decor if thats what you want.

If people should want my obviously second rate products then so be it. But il keep it on the quiet so not to offend you.

I didnt even come on to look at this thread and i certainly dont want to respond like this but as usual on rfuk you get some smart **** who is happy to bluntly put someone down when there is just no need.

Im aware of the great work others do on this forum, but there not the only ones able to make things.

I wouldnt mind but i only made this thread to ask peoples opinions and hopefully get something CONSTRUCTIVE OUT OF IT.

Iv not made some crap, sold it and ran like many others.

Oh and before anyone says anything Why do you think anyone would want these? is not constructive

please lock this thread and i apologise for my rant.


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## Willz0r2010 (Oct 6, 2010)

In all honesty (and try not to get outraged at this opinion - it is just an opinion) they just don't look "real" enough to be a better alternative to the stuff already available.

They have that classic "polystyrene, grout and paint" look that 99% of fake rock hides/backgrounds have, because people aren't really that willing to try their own techniques.

If you were able to come up with something lightweight and cheap that actually looked like desert/scrubland/savannah fauna then you'd be in with a good shot. Real rock never has a uniform colour or texture, whereas the ones you've posted are orange/red all over. If you were to use varying techniques to get a range of texture, and base the shapes on real rock formations and fallen stone, added erosion marks, light growth of lichen or moss, add areas of smaller stone and sand to mimic natural weather replacement of stones and stuff, and make them to scale (my biggest pet hate personally - everybody makes backgrounds smaller to fit into a vivarium, and yet the animal is obviously life-size - why not make something that the animal would naturally climb on/live in?) I'd be far more interested in using them in a vivarium or terrarium setup.

The only way to turn a product into an income is to do something different. People are like sheep when it comes to reptiles - everybody uses expensive branded stats and heat elements purely because they have pictures of lizards on the box, or because they're told to by forums instead of looking around and picking up cheaper, better alternatives. It's the same with viv decor - people will much prefer to walk into a reptile shop and pay ludicrous prices for something simple and mass produced purely because it's too much effort shopping around and finding something better.

If you came out with a unique, fantastic product that was different to everybody elses, people might actually consider going that extra effort to get their decor from you, instead of Exo Terra or the local reptile shop.


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

westie1 said:


> you cant like a comment about yourself thats just shocking.


if that bit was too me sorry i did think the post was a bit harsh but i like'd it because he mentioned my name.


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

I agree on the hides, that was my first attempt and far too uniform.
I only used one of my 15 pigments i bought as i was playing with the way cement works/dries/holds.
Mixing into cement with other pigments after gives swirls ect that may be of use.
Il also be dry brushing dry onto damp cement to achieve depth, whilst the cement will draw it in"
I have been looking at natural rock forms such as the main road into halifax there is some really nice sand stone cliffs and iv seen it tends to be more angular in its outer edge, quite rectangular.
When i go fossil hunting on the east coast iv been taking pictures of the mud cliffs/slate.
I need to get my design sorted but as i say this was only to be a feeler and to be honest i wanted to show what id done too.
Since this iv made two more designs taking all above into account since this one being a huge dragon basking spot.

Anyway i think il just be doing a few of these and trying them in our shop for now, see how they go if at all.

Thanks for the above its exactly what i was after 
I love none bias constructive pointers

ch4dg no worries, just dont like being pulled down.

Im going to leave this thread now thanks for the kind words and help
I may be back with this in the future, or may leave this be


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

westie1 said:


> LOL thanks for that, oh and you cant like a comment about yourself thats just shocking.
> 
> Ant;
> 
> ...


Okay calm down...I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you, it wasnt my intention. This is why I hate forums as things come across in totally the wrong way!

"Why do you think anyone would want these?" was a question to you, not meant as a rhetorical "these are crap why would anyone want them?" I can see now how it come across really bad! Sorry 

What I'm tryng to say is there's only two ways you could convince people to buy something like this and that's to buy with their pocket (i.e. be cheaper than the mass produced stuff) or to add 'novelty' or 'uniqueness' to justify buying a non-branded item or paying slightly more.

So what I meant was; what is the selling point(s) of your hides etc that would make someone want one? (You don't have to answer me I've probably pissed you off enough already). 

And I'm not saying the other individual in question (I'm not going to feed his ego even more by writing his name again so he can like it ) is the only person who can make stuff I just meant his stuff is a good example of novel/unique items which people would pay good money for as it's not commonly available elsewhere.

Again, sorry for coming across as an idiot; this is why I never text message anymore!


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

westie1 said:


> ch4dg no worries.


cool: victory:




antcherry88 said:


> the other individual in question (I'm not going to feed his ego even more by writing his name again)


the individual likes having his ego fed as this encourages and motivates him to share his ideals:2thumb:


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

ch4dg said:


> the individual likes having his ego fed as this encourages and motivates him to share his ideals:2thumb:


:lol2:


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

Kissed and made up  thanks for taking the time to clarify your post. Take it easy gents


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