# First foray into dwa snakes.



## Fluffy! (Jun 14, 2011)

Hi. 
I would like some serious,constructive,blunt and uncompromising advice from an experienced "hot" snake keeper. For a month now ive been reading into keeping Viridovipera vogeli. Firstly is this a species that would suit a begginner? (Theres too much conflicting info out there) I have kept many snakes, to name but a few..red tail boa,corn/king snakes,rat snakes,pine snakes. I have handled all these snakes but not using snake hooks as the snakes were easily handled by hand. Correct me if im wrong please but I fail to see how handling an easy going corn snake on hooks can help prepare you for dealing with a potentially dangerous viper? I have a collection of Tarantulas some of which have bites considered medically important to humans (a term ive seen used to describe the bite from Vogels Viper) Im not saying they are in the same league as venemous snakes,but nevertheless i know of and appreciate the respect needed to keep these kind of animals. I consider myself to be a very responsible keeper,calm confident but never complacent and always vigilant,and would like to keep this particular snake as it is stunning to look at,something that i can display in my room in a full naturalistic setup and enjoy basically. Howvever Im concerned that learning to deal with this snake may be a very unforgiving and potentially dangerous foray,whereby even a small mistake will be punished. Though i firmly believe that if done correctly and carefully it could be a very rewarding experience. All pointers on enclosure size,general care etc are very welcome as are any comments such as "you cannot and must not keep this snake without prior experience of using hooks"
Cheers


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## PAB (Aug 4, 2010)

When you say display in your room. Whats your room? Bedroom, hot room, snake room.


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## Fluffy! (Jun 14, 2011)

It will be in my front room....
There are no children or other domestic pets in my house,just me,an understanding girlfriend and Tarantulas. If its feasible for me to keep this viper i am not planning on keeping anymore venemous snakes,one will be enough for me.


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

You will need a hot room! If the snake happens to escape, it needs to be an escape proof room to protect the public.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Where you based mate? If you are UK based you wont be allowed to keep it in your front room.


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## Fluffy! (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks all. Im in Yorkshire
Looool this nations flawed logic never fails to amaze me!!! So you can keep a 20ft + reticulated confirmed man eating python in your front room whereupon if it escaped it would eat small children,cats, dogs and possibly even the keeper but you cant keep a snake locked in a secure unit in your front room thats very reluctant to strike unless severley provoked!?!!?!?! Just to add to my absolute dismay I owned a 9ft female red tail boa constrictor,I handled her from being a hatchling every week and when she reached 9ft I had help from my dad. One week during normal handling she bit my hand severley and wrapped around my arm (thank god it wasnt my neck) I promptly sold her the next day
Nice one policy makers of the uk,you truly are a bunch of bloody idiots :bash: Are you reading this? 
WE KEEP REPTILES TO VIEW AND ENJOY THEM, NOT TO UNJUSTIFIABLY LOCK THEM|IN ROOMS TO BE TREAT AS MASS MURDERERS!!!!! 
I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

Fluffy! said:


> Thanks all. Im in Yorkshire
> Looool this nations flawed logic never fails to amaze me!!! So you can keep a 20ft + reticulated confirmed man eating python in your front room whereupon if it escaped it would eat small children,cats, dogs and possibly even the keeper but you cant keep a snake locked in a secure unit in your front room thats very reluctant to strike unless severley provoked!?!!?!?! Just to add to my absolute dismay I owned a 9ft female red tail boa constrictor,I handled her from being a hatchling every week and when she reached 9ft I had help from my dad. One week during normal handling she bit my hand severley and wrapped around my arm (thank god it wasnt my neck) I promptly sold her the next day
> Nice one policy makers of the uk,you truly are a bunch of bloody idiots :bash: Are you reading this?
> WE KEEP REPTILES TO VIEW AND ENJOY THEM, NOT TO UNJUSTIFIABLY LOCK THEM|IN ROOMS TO BE TREAT AS MASS MURDERERS!!!!!
> I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


If a venomous snake escaped into the house, and a visitor came round and got bitten, you'd be in deep trouble. I think it would be pretty easy to find a large retic on the loose in the house. But a small viper? No, it will probably find you, it won't end good. You cannot compare a retic or boa to a venomous reptile. Yes retics and boas can be dangerous, but they are NOT in the same league as venomous snakes. I think you need to think about this a little more


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Fluffy! said:


> Thanks all. Im in Yorkshire
> Looool this nations flawed logic never fails to amaze me!!! So you can keep a 20ft + reticulated confirmed man eating python in your front room whereupon if it escaped it would eat small children,cats, dogs and possibly even the keeper but you cant keep a snake locked in a secure unit in your front room thats very reluctant to strike unless severley provoked!?!!?!?! Just to add to my absolute dismay I owned a 9ft female red tail boa constrictor,I handled her from being a hatchling every week and when she reached 9ft I had help from my dad. One week during normal handling she bit my hand severley and wrapped around my arm (thank god it wasnt my neck) I promptly sold her the next day
> Nice one policy makers of the uk,you truly are a bunch of bloody idiots :bash: Are you reading this?
> WE KEEP REPTILES TO VIEW AND ENJOY THEM, NOT TO UNJUSTIFIABLY LOCK THEM|IN ROOMS TO BE TREAT AS MASS MURDERERS!!!!!
> I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


I think you really really need to re-think this whole venomous thing; in particular what DWA actually means. 

I am not a DWA keeper. (Maybe. One day. In several years). But have you actually seen a cobra in full pissed off mode? Or a copperhead that truly honestly wants to end you? Once you do you will realise why they are kept in seperate rooms. 

Also read the endless threads on why large constrictors aren't on the DWA and probably never will be. There are good reasons. 

To be honest if you can't deal with a 9ft retic in pissed off mode how are you going to say remove retained eye caps off a hot? Keeping hots means getting closer to the pointy end then most sane people will even contemplate.

Edit - Snake keeper beat me to it.


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## tengalms (Feb 5, 2008)

Fluffy! said:


> Thanks all. Im in Yorkshire
> Looool this nations flawed logic never fails to amaze me!!! So you can keep a 20ft + reticulated confirmed man eating python in your front room whereupon if it escaped it would eat small children,cats, dogs and possibly even the keeper but you cant keep a snake locked in a secure unit in your front room thats very reluctant to strike unless severley provoked!?!!?!?! Just to add to my absolute dismay I owned a 9ft female red tail boa constrictor,I handled her from being a hatchling every week and when she reached 9ft I had help from my dad. One week during normal handling she bit my hand severley and wrapped around my arm (thank god it wasnt my neck) I promptly sold her the next day
> Nice one policy makers of the uk,you truly are a bunch of bloody idiots :bash: Are you reading this?
> WE KEEP REPTILES TO VIEW AND ENJOY THEM, NOT TO UNJUSTIFIABLY LOCK THEM|IN ROOMS TO BE TREAT AS MASS MURDERERS!!!!!
> I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


Not sure what your point is here !.Big diff with your boa is,it bit you and you bled a little,venomous bites you,you could be dead.
Also you said your dad helped you with your boa,yet it bit you,and wrapped around you,even with a back up handler ?.
You are nowhere near ready for venomous,in my humble opinion.
Stick with small boas.

Roy.


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## I am a scarecrow (Nov 18, 2009)

Fluffy! said:


> Thanks all. Im in Yorkshire
> Looool this nations flawed logic never fails to amaze me!!! So you can keep a 20ft + reticulated confirmed man eating python in your front room whereupon if it escaped it would eat small children,cats, dogs and possibly even the keeper but you cant keep a snake locked in a secure unit in your front room thats very reluctant to strike unless severley provoked!?!!?!?! Just to add to my absolute dismay *I owned a 9ft female red tail boa constrictor,I handled her from being a hatchling every week and when she reached 9ft I had help from my dad. One week during normal handling she bit my hand severley and wrapped around my arm (thank god it wasnt my neck) I promptly sold her the next day*
> Nice one policy makers of the uk,you truly are a bunch of bloody idiots :bash: Are you reading this?
> WE KEEP REPTILES TO VIEW AND ENJOY THEM, NOT TO UNJUSTIFIABLY LOCK THEM|IN ROOMS TO BE TREAT AS MASS MURDERERS!!!!!
> I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


Lol, and you want a viper, to go in your front room? 

Damn those bunch of bloody idiots, for making the policies, that stand in your way!:whip:


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm a bit confused, you're complaining that the safety requirements for a potentially deadly snake are too stringent, yet you get bitten once by a 9ft constrictor and sold it immediately after? 

Your dangerous snake bit you, you weren't overly harmed but decided you had to get rid of it, now you want a more dangerous snake? Umm...


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

There is no point for another thread comparing DWA to large constrictor's. If you want to argue the point here: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/dwa-species/699828-burms-retics-should-dwa-not.html


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## Fluffy! (Jun 14, 2011)

I am a scarecrow said:


> Lol, and you want a viper, to go in your front room?
> 
> Damn those bunch of bloody idiots, for making the policies, that stand in your way!:whip:


Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!! For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!! For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


Don't be an idiot! We don't keep venomous snakes for the thrill or the danger. We keep them because they are beautiful creatures. And you think a locked room is a bad idea? Are you on medication?


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

I didn't know you kept DWA snakes Snakekeeper17?


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

callum b said:


> I didn't know you kept DWA snakes Snakekeeper17?


We as in a reptile community


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

gaboon pit viper 

I think you mean *Gaboon Viper. The Gabooon viper isn't a pitviper :whistling2:


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

callum b said:


> I didn't know you kept DWA snakes Snakekeeper17?


And how would you know if I keep venomous or not? lol fail


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

Don't you remember pm'ing each other. You sig. changed quickly after that.

Fluffy I don't think you started this thread well but I do think you have got some fair points in one of your posts. Unfortunately rules are rules and if you want to keep a DWA snake these are the conditions you will have to meet, whether you think they are right or wrong. It's even more annoying being a scorpion keeper as the laws mean nearly half of all scorpion species require a licence to keep lol.


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!! For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


You clearly have no comprehension of what a hot room / set up is like. And you clearly haven't read the thread razorscale linked and I referred to. With such a basic lack of acknowledgement I doubt a hots keeper would let you within a punting poles distance of their snake. Notice how none have posted on this thread? Wonder why that might be? They have posted on similar threads after all... (apologies razorscale, I forgot your post...) 

Have you even read the DWAL requirements? You asked for blunt advice. You got it. It just wasn't what you wanted. The DWA is law in this country like it or not. If you want to keep hots you have to abide with it. 

No sensible hot keeper keeps the animals as an extension of their ego. Most of the ones on here certainly don't. To insinuate otherwise really alienates the only people able to help in your application and training. (Yes you need training, or rather the ability to practically handle the animal in question... where do you think experience like that comes from?)

Need I remind you got rid of a 9ft retic because it bit you. Once. And you want a hot?


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

callum b said:


> Don't you remember pm'ing each other. You sig. changed quickly after that.
> 
> Fluffy I don't think you started this thread well but I do think you have got some fair points in one of your posts. Unfortunately rules are rules and if you want to keep a DWA snake these are the conditions you will have to meet, whether you think they are right or wrong. It's even more annoying being a scorpion keeper as the laws mean nearly half of all scorpion species require a licence to keep lol.


You mean the scorpions? I haven't ever had any snakes on my signature lol. I remember you pm'd me about how to get a dwa. You then got angry because I didn't reply. The scorpions were removed from my signature when I had sold them lol. And by the way, I have a PSL!


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## kain (Mar 23, 2009)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) *any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!! *For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


I have a BSC in Zoology and have talked to/know some of the top herpetologists in this country and I think they would disagree with that comment.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? *Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself.* In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a


Is this not the same thing? As far as the animal's concered it's still locked up in a small cage, it doesn't care that you want to 'study' it.


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

SnakeKeeper17 said:


> You mean the scorpions? I haven't ever had any snakes on my signature lol. I remember you pm'd me about how to get a dwa. You then got angry because I didn't reply. The scorpions were removed from my signature when I had sold them lol. And by the way, I have a PSL!


 Every time I have spoken to you, which btw has never been in an angry way, you have reacted like a :censor:. You were keeping Buthidae scorpions and started to ask around on here if any one wanted to swap for DWA snakes. You were ignored but carried on asking until you started making some ridiculous offers which then started to attract attention, in a potentially bad way IMO. I then sent you a pm politely stating that you are making it look like you are keeping your scorps without a licence and could result in trouble if you were doing so. You said that you did have a licence and eventually thanked me for the warning and being concerned. The scorpions then disappeared off your sig. 
Now you are claiming that you have never had a DWA but do have a PSL?? Eh?


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

callum b said:


> Every time I have spoken to you, which btw has never been in an angry way, you have reacted like a :censor:. You were keeping Buthidae scorpions and started to ask around on here if any one wanted to swap for DWA snakes. You were ignored but carried on asking until you started making some ridiculous offers which then started to attract attention, in a potentially bad way IMO. I then sent you a pm politely stating that you are making it look like you are keeping your scorps without a licence and could result in trouble if you were doing so. You said that you did have a licence and eventually thanked me for the warning and being concerned. The scorpions then disappeared off your sig.
> Now you are claiming that you have never had a DWA but do have a PSL?? Eh?


What planet are you on? I had buthidae scorpions because I have a PSL which covers them. I said I didn't have a DWAL. Never said I didn't keep buthidae scorpions. Infact, I only had them for a few weeks as I was holding on to them for someone. And I never thanked you for anything, infact, I did quite the opposite. I was a little sick of someone sending me pm's all the time. You should do your homework, dwa can be kept with a PSL! as I explained earlier, the scorpions were removed when I had sold them. And why have you been watching my sig? You really need a life mate. You are just a keyboard warrior.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

Wow. Just wow. I sometimes wonder what the sunrises look like on other people's home planets...


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Khaos said:


> Wow. Just wow. I sometimes wonder what the sunrises look like on other people's home planets...


I believe Fluffy's are err Fluffy... and lack venomous snakes with a dose of disregard of advice and law (the sun rise that is, not the snakes) 

It's a surprisingly complex and communicative sun rise.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

what is a psl license then?


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## SnakeKeeper17 (Apr 5, 2011)

spinnin_tom said:


> what is a psl license then?


It's a Pet Shop License.


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

Yes I know you can keep DWA on a PSL. I am also quite happy to copy the pm you sent me thanking me if you would like. Can I ask what you have a PSL for if you don't keep any DWA? Also if you were only holding on to the scorpions as they were someone else's how come you were trying to sell them? I'm sure who evers scorpions they were would be have been pretty unhappy if you sold them. 
I'm sure most people on here would be able to dig up posts where people have asked if you have DWAL and you have said yes. You always answered anyone who questioned with the same, 'as a matter of fact i do have a DWAL. And what right do you have asking me anyway, keep your nose out''. Well summat like that anyway.

I have been a member of this forum since 2008 and have never once got involved in an argument. I don't like confrontation and use this forum to give people advice or get advice myself, not bitch and moan at/to people. You have just really irritated me. I hate it when someone who is quite blatantly lying thinks they can then dish out rude 'advice' when they themselves are no better than the op. In fact you are probably worse than the op as you either a) have probably been keeping DWA scorpions without a licence or b) think you can comment on why a person should not keep venomous snakes when you yourself have, as far as I can gather, never kept them so therefore have no relevant experience or knowledge to offer the op. To be honest I think you are probably doing both a and b. 
Finally and I am happy for you to correct me on this but I noticed your username has 17 in it. I am assuming this was you age when you joined as quite a lot of people put their age into their username as the word part is often already taken so it allows them to still use it. Also the way you have spoken to me in the past has been very childish and defensive. Anyway, if so, that suggests you were 17 when you started to claim you had a DWAL. Bit young to be granted one as far as I know?

Keyboard warrior?? What is this? If you are suggesting I spend my time picking fights on here then you are very wrong. As stated before I have never argued in a bad way (a healthy discussion over scorpion care isn't arguin is it lol) on here and until now have ignored any comments that may have irritated me. So keyboard warrior I am not. And as for needing a life, well I am quite happy with the one I have got thank you very much.


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

People can we please keep your dirty laundry off the forums. It attracts rats. : victory:


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

Owzy said:


> People can we please keep your dirty laundry off the forums. It attracts rats. : victory:


 
Sorry :flrt:


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) *any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!!* For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


As a well educated biologist (molecular cell biology) I would disagree with your post. A badly placed dry bite can cause you problems too. I don't think a drop of venom just sitting their on its own is too dangerous unless you inject it! Of course it is the snake that is dangerous. There isn't licensing in place for no reason. Ever seen a really p155ed off hot? Woo super scary! This is why I don't have DWA, I know exactly what I would be (or rather what I am not) letting myself in for. They are so amazingly fast. Beautiful and lethal. 

The upshot is that whether you agree with the licensing or not it is there to protect people. If you want hots you get a license no arguments. There is nothing saying that you have to have a dull facility. You can make an amazing setup, you just have to have a dedicated room for it with a double entrance. Put yourself in a radio and a chair. Voila, entertainment!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Fluffy! said:


> Lol I fail to see the point of that comment coming from someone who keeps venomous snakes in a room upon which he has to enter?!? Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !! Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!! For the record a fully grown Boa or reticulated python is just as deadly as any venomous snake and just kills by a different method. Roughly one minute to live if a retic decides your dinner,yet you can survive a day at least and ring for an ambulance if a gaboon pit viper bit you lol...please. Written as the hooded cobra turned and fled at the sound of approaching footsteps. My T.Blondi can kill and eat a fer-de-lance viper,shes out on show for all to see marvel at and enjoy (no one even knows how potent its venom is)....locked room how ridiculous!! "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


just cos you have been to uni and got an ology doesnt mean you ACTUALLY know anything......just theory......but practical you sound like you know jack s:censor:t.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Did anyone notice the comment about vipers not surviving in Yorkshire? Think it through. Brilliant


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## Blurboy (Feb 9, 2007)

Oh I'm so glad I read this thead. Fluffy I do believe you asked for advice and basically you didn't like what you were told as it didn't fit in with your beliefs on how DWA's should be kept. At the end of the day there are rules and these must be abided by as they are intended to keep EVERYONE safe. I don't keep any DWA's but I read what's required in keeping them and a "hot room" makes total sense and your statement about being able look at your pets is true - but I've a fairly large collection of spiders, most with medically significant bites and these are kept in various rooms so I actually can't view them all at the same time but I DO look at them everyday so the same would apply to a DWA in a locked room. 
The laws are there to keep owners and anyone who visits an owner of any DWA safe and accidents and escaped animals happen. I'd not worry one jot about a 9ft Boa escaping in my house but something like a tiny Saw Scaled Viper???? Er no thanks so please do some research and think about it logically and think about why these rules are there - for YOUR safety! :2thumb:


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## Yorkshire Gator (Oct 16, 2009)

Having known someone who kept hots in his living room, I can honestly say it is very scary indded to know that they are just feet away from you and anybody else in the room


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

Fluffy! said:


> Hey I graduated with BSC Hons in animal physiology


 Who cares and what has this got to do with anything, other than make you sound like an asshole. 



> and so I would like to state that the only reason you should take any reptile from the wild is to display it,study it,observe it and educate others about it. To keep said animals in a room under lock and key is simply criminal in itself. In fact the only reason (if not for observation/education) for keeping these animals is the risk involved. Oh the thrill of keeping them in a locked oh the danger lol lol


 Who is taking animals from the wild? And they are not the only reasons, captive breeding for release, medical research are two more. Your statement again makes you sound even more like an ass. Keeping them under lock and key is common sense! The DWA is about protecting the public, not the keeper or the animal, it is there to prevent to the best level possible a member of the public being killed. Imagine a juvenile black mamba escaping and killing someone, they would ban overnight the keeping of any venomous reptile, *the DWA is a compromise, an agreement between keeper and the general public that states you will do everything in your power to prevent harm coming to others, and in return you can keep some of the most amazing species this planet has ever known.* I would say that's a fair deal. Yes there is room for improvement, but changes happen by working with not against. Man, I'm kinda thinking you might not be an ass but maybe just naive and a bit immature.....But wait there's more crap to come!


> The great naturalist himself,Steve Irwin to handled the worlds most venomous snakes in order to demonstrate to the world at large that they are not to be feared,only respected,and that in reality they are not interested in human beings in general (these are so dangerous you need to keep them in a locked room :gasp. And to think that you can consider yourselves responsible keepers when in fact having to keep something so secure only serves to further damage the already misunderstood and unfounded opinion of snakes,is quite staggering :naughty: !!


 Hardly, I rarely remember seeing Mr Irwin showing a snake relaxed and not trying to bite the crap out of him, and he pissed em off for the mass public so that they could think he was doing something amazingly dangerous. He made a shed load of cash out of it too. He was no Attenborough.


> Alas from the comments I have read he died in vain,in fact its only people who stupidly agree to the licensing terms,and pet shops,who would have you believe that "venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!!


 Are you sure you are educated? I stupidly agree to the DWA and PSL terms because of the reasons I've already stated. 



> Blah Blah blah......... "Well I keep my venomous snakes in a locked room as an extension of my gonads <yawn> but it does nothing to enhance the poor snakes reputation. I'd feel quite ashamed really :blush: I was never aware that they werent allowed to be displayed properly,so ill do the animal the justce it deserves and leave it in the pet shop or the wild :whip:
> I asked for constructive comments not retarded one liners ,chew this post over :2thumb:


 I don't keep snakes so that other people can see them, I keep them for my own personal enjoyment, and a myriad of other reasons, if other people want to see them they can, they just have to pass the asshole test. You failed. I have friends with DWA hot rooms, and I don't see your point. I ask to go in and see the animals and I am allowed in. Wow what a fuss that was! It is almost like being in a room dedicated to keeping snakes! And I can see into their enclosures too!! So your sole definition of "properly displaying a snake" is to have it in your front room......man you come up with some weird sh*t. 

Good luck with learning some humility and common sense. 

HMHB


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## tengalms (Feb 5, 2008)

tengalms said:


> Not sure what your point is here !.Big diff with your boa is,it bit you and you bled a little,venomous bites you,you could be dead.
> Also you said your dad helped you with your boa,yet it bit you,and wrapped around you,even with a back up handler ?.
> You are nowhere near ready for venomous,in my humble opinion.
> Stick with small boas.
> ...


Oh,just for your info,I DO KEEP VENOMOUS,and they are kept in a locked room.

Roy.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

This is hilarious.


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

I kinda see Fluffy's point, I mean if a DWA keeper has the skills to deal with the snake it doesn't really matter where in the house they are situated provided the keeper has practices in place for any event. I mean yeah a lockable hot room might make escapes less likely but they are not fool proof and what are the likelyhoods of escapees leaving the premises, entering another home and biting someone? pretty bloody minimal. That being said the rules are the rules and there in place to avoid a potential situation.
Even here in western Australia to obtain a venomous keepers license the conditions are similar, funnily enough though as a licensed relocator I can legally keep highly venomous snakes in whatevers handy at the time, in the middle of my living room for 72hours before relocating them. During snake season I nmore or less have a constant flow of snakes through my house 99% being pseudonaja and Notechis spp.
I only relocate from a small area maybe 100km square and between me and the couple of others I know it would not be unusual to relocate 10+ snakes a week during the season. Taking into account the numerous other relocators and huge State we operate in there's likely 1000's relocated each year and rarely a death attributed to snake bite, also there's probably more people just kill them rather than call someone to remove them.
I guess the main danger from escapees over there would be the fact they are desensitized to human contact.

As to the question of whether or not the Viper is suitable for you Fluffy the answer is no, you need to gain experience from other means before jumping in the deep end.


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## GenomeProjectBangor (Feb 4, 2011)

*""venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!!"*



As an educated biologist who has worked on venomous snakes for going on 5 years I absolutely disagree with this statement! Venom is a liquid, albeit a very complex one, but it takes a venomous snake to get it into you, and not seeing venomous snakes as dangerous is a very irresponsible attitude, especially if you're considering owning one!

I'd consider visiting another hot keepers room and see how they run their collection, and maybe get some handling experience with them before buying a very fast pitviper!


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## Yorkshire Gator (Oct 16, 2009)

I think events yesterday just prove that its the snakes that are dangerous


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

Fluffy! said:


> I wonder how long a viper would last outside in the freezing yorkshire weather.....................


Vipera berus :whistling2:


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## ross100 (Dec 31, 2009)

*mmmmmmm!*

Your knowledge might be sound chief, but your attitude needs work. Buy a slow worm in the interim :lol2::lol2:


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## MagicSqueak (Apr 9, 2010)

GenomeProjectBangor said:


> *""venomous snakes are dangerous" (actually the venom is dangerous not the snake) any educated biologist would whole heartedly disagree!!"*
> 
> As an educated biologist who has worked on venomous snakes for going on 5 years I absolutely disagree with this statement! Venom is a liquid, albeit a very complex one, but it takes a venomous snake to get it into you, and not seeing venomous snakes as dangerous is a very irresponsible attitude, especially if you're considering owning one!
> 
> I'd consider visiting another hot keepers room and see how they run their collection, and maybe get some handling experience with them before buying a very fast pitviper!


I completely agree with this. As an educated Zoo Biologist, to see the snake as not dangerous when it is the snake that puts the venom into your system, is quite frankly foolish and a Bangor said, irresponsible.

I would, as suggested, get some experience first.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

ok fluffy i keep venomous so this is my addition to the debate, you dont seem like you are anywhere near ready to keep dwa animals, licensing laws are there for a reason, 1 death in 150 years backs that up, if you cant respect a few rules then how are you going to respect the animal itself? they are kept in a locked room to protect the public and other family member from a potentially lethal situation, if you want an animal to show off to freinds then stick with your boas, listen to people like tengalms, he has had years of experience with venomous so knows what hes on about!


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

*going on a bit!!*

lifes about keeping thigs simple,my view is fluffy is and never going to be ready to own a dwa animal(sorry but thats it)!!


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