# Adders



## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

Hi, 
Are Adders DWA listed and if so do shops sell them or are they a protected spiecies preventing the sale, harm....ect like a grass snake?

Also are they front fanged?
I would love to see one in its natural habitat:2thumb:

And just before some of you go wild......I AM NOT THINKING OF COLLECTING ONE AND BRINGING IT HOME. Although it would make a great addition IMO!:no1:
Cheers
Andy


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

they are protected and cannot be sold,harmed,or removed.
as far as the fangs being rear fanged i have no idea but im sure someone willbe along shortly to answer this.:2thumb:


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

You cannot kill, harm the snake.... but you can remove it from the wild...But they are front fanged and they are DWA

You cannot sell them also


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## Herp_boi (May 12, 2008)

yes they are front fanged, you need a dwa. And you can buy them in europe. And england but they have to be offspring by like 3 generations to sell them i beleive.
Apparently they are very very hard to keep alive in captivity.
Nick


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## Burmy Mad (Jul 30, 2008)

My uncle seen one somewhere in Shirebrook, N sed he ran like **** :lol2:


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

rc10andy said:


> Hi,
> Are Adders DWA listed and if so do shops sell them or are they a protected spiecies preventing the sale, harm....ect like a grass snake?
> 
> Also are they front fanged?
> ...


Just thought you would like to see a wild British adder (photographed beginning of this month)


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

monitor mad said:


> Just thought you would like to see a wild British adder (photographed beginning of this month)


 Nice one, really lovely snakes! We are lucky to have them but i wish they were a bit more common!:no1:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

they are viper, therefore they are front fanged.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Adder*

_*Vipera berus -* Adder or Northern Viper.

Protected under the Wildlife and Countryside act. They can be kept provided you have a DWA however they are a difficult species to keep in Captivity and it is illegal to sell, trade and barter the species. It is also illegal to kill, injure or harm them.

If you were luck enough to breed this species you could only sell third generation.

It should be pointed out that they are easily disturbed and are nationally in decline and absent from certain counties.

If you see once in the wild enjoy it!!!

Please do not post where to see them are there are plenty of Fckwits out there who would disturb them..

And do not get bitten....forget what some misinformed people say about an adder bite...they are VIPERS and it hurts and you will end up in hospital and we all know how those fckwits in the press do with snakes stories!!

anyway here is a nice adder from this year










_


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

great photo slippery and well said, im sure Wolfgang has a couple of photos he could post if hes on line :whistling2:

Dave


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## Denverthelastdinosaur (Aug 3, 2008)

Posted this earlier this week but here's a lovely adder I saw this summer at Wildwood, I sat watching the enclosure for a good half hour waiting for one to come out


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## HantsLex (Jun 27, 2008)

I thought adders were black?


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Melanistic (black) ones do occur in the wild, but generally, they are a greyish colour with black markings (male) and brown with darker brown markings (female)


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

Some nice Adders there ppl!!


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## bufobufo1 (Aug 25, 2008)

Declan123 said:


> You cannot kill, harm the snake.... but you can remove it from the wild...But they are front fanged and they are DWA
> 
> You cannot sell them also


That is a very interesting perception of the current law declan. Adders cannot be removed from the wild due to thier protected species status and it is illegal to even point a stick at one and rightly so. There seems to be a train of thought regarding such native species, that it is not illegal to capture or keep or disturb, I think this is because some have not grasped fully the wildlife and countryside act 1981 and its recent ammendments regarding such activities. 
I suggest you all read the recent ammendments and contact defra and natural england if you are in any way convinced that it ok to collect, disturb, trade in, harm, catch, carry, pick up, shift etc any of our native reptiles and amphibians.


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## bufobufo1 (Aug 25, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> _*Vipera berus -* Adder or Northern Viper._
> 
> _Protected under the Wildlife and Countryside act. They can be kept provided you have a DWA however they are a difficult species to keep in Captivity and it is illegal to sell, trade and barter the species. It is also illegal to kill, injure or harm them._
> 
> ...


 
Well said, this species is in national decline, and even more so if people assume they can catch and breed them in captivity. They are a wild native species and wholly unsuitable for captivity.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I just came back from a job, the A74 widening project at Carlisle, Junction 44 floriston bridge. On our site induction we had risk assessments, if we happen upon adders. Apparently they were prolific to the site. All the guys had seen loads prior to my arrival, and assured me as soon as they saw one they'd get me. I'm still not sure what they expected me to do as we seen no adders all the time I was there......LOL 
Yes they are like hens teeth if your a herper......


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## bufobufo1 (Aug 25, 2008)

well, thanks for being conspicuous as to the where abouts of these adders! Nobody will ever be able to go and find them now will they!


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## WW** (Jan 20, 2008)

bufobufo1 said:


> That is a very interesting perception of the current law declan. Adders cannot be removed from the wild due to thier protected species status and it is illegal to even point a stick at one and rightly so. There seems to be a train of thought regarding such native species, that it is not illegal to capture or keep or disturb, I think this is because some have not grasped fully the wildlife and countryside act 1981 and its recent ammendments regarding such activities.
> I suggest you all read the recent ammendments and contact defra and natural england if you are in any way convinced that it ok to collect, disturb, trade in, harm, catch, carry, pick up, shift etc any of our native reptiles and amphibians.


Sadly, Declan's interpretation was correct: adders (as well as grass snakes, vivparous lizards and slow worms) are only protected from killing, injury and commercial exploitation (selling, buying), but not from disturbance, capture, captive husbandry etc. Even more extraordinarily, you are entirely within your rights to kill a common frog, common toad, smooth or palmate newt, they are only protected from trade. Only the "rare" species enjoy full protection from disturbance, capture etc. (smooth snake, sand lizard, natterjack and crested newt).

The Wildlife and Countryside Act can be read at Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and the updated list of species concerned at Download species designations


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

bufobufo1 said:


> well, thanks for being conspicuous as to the where abouts of these adders! Nobody will ever be able to go and find them now will they!


I was under the impression that this particular colony where "collected" and re-located prior to the roadworks being carried out and was actually televised (all collected were taken to a secure secret location)


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Translocation*



monitor mad said:


> I was under the impression that this particular colony where "collected" and re-located prior to the roadworks being carried out and was actually televised (all collected were taken to a secure secret location)


Every year there are numerous projects where our native herpetofauna are moved due to development. 

I worked on the original capture/translocation project on the A74 upgrade at Beattock a few years ago....it was good fun but what happned to the populations after they were moved?????


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## matt1977 (Jul 1, 2007)

I had a great little spot to see them just on the edge of town untill a well meaning volenteer work party "improved" the place and removed all there cover ect and the bit of old tin that they like warming them selfs under. Ah well i'll have to hunt out another spot were lucky to have a good number of them in this part of the world


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I wish the myth of 2nd/3rd/4th etc etc generation would stop once and for all!! The legislation refers purely to animals which were living in a wild state at the time of capture, ie wild caught. There is NO mention whatsoever about how many generations the animal must be before it can be sold. If it was captive bred then it can be sold.

How you go about proving it is captive bred is another matter!

Regarding adders, they are widely considered as one of the most difficult species of all known snakes to keep alive in captivity, they really are best left where they are.


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## rybuzz (Feb 12, 2008)

i Agree thay are beautiful snakes tho


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> How you go about proving it is captive bred is another matter!.


Very true and unless Natural England etc go down the route of DNA testing
and even them its probably not going to prove anything!!!

I know a couple of people who are successfully keeping berus in captivity and breeding them....though not in the UK


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

I saw many in a place in london, they area was managed for them and they were thriving there. I think we saw about 10 in a couple of hours and it was an overcast day, though we only saw 1 grass snake. Both species are incredibly beautiful.


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

*an 8" baby adder / southern england*










seems a very popular "british" snake its stunning but best just left alone for other people to marvel at in the wild :no1:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

bufobufo1 said:


> That is a very interesting perception of the current law declan. Adders cannot be removed from the wild due to thier protected species status and it is illegal to even point a stick at one and rightly so. There seems to be a train of thought regarding such native species, that it is not illegal to capture or keep or disturb, I think this is because some have not grasped fully the wildlife and countryside act 1981 and its recent ammendments regarding such activities.
> I suggest you all read the recent ammendments and contact defra and natural england if you are in any way convinced that it ok to collect, disturb, trade in, harm, catch, carry, pick up, shift etc any of our native reptiles and amphibians.


Adders, slow worms, grass snakes and common lizards are EXEMPTED from certain parts of the Schedule 5 legislation.

Animals

This specifically states that the ONLY parts of the protective legislation that are applicable are killing and injuring - section 9(1) - and sale - section 9(5). 



> *Protection for wild animals on Schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981*
> Section 9
> Part 1 intentional killing, injuring, taking
> Part 2 possession or control (live or dead animal, part or derivative)
> ...


It is completely legal to catch and keep the latter three on the list with no licence required; you DO require a DWA licence that specifically lists _Vipera berus_ if you wish to keep these.


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