# Skunk Walking



## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

I am posting these questions in response to another thread about taking a Beared Dragon out on a shoulder and Skunk walking became involved. I feel with skunks becoming more popular and people taking them out in public it raises some potential issues for the Skunk and the owner.

This post is not about specific people and whether it is right or wrong for them to take their Skunks for a walk, I would like it to be a discussion on these specific questions.

!. Would you need some form public liability insurance if you take them out in public. Imagine the Skunk spraying someone or biting someone.

2. If the Skunk sprayed someone, could any action be taken against you or the Skunk be it the RSPCA, polce or whoever. I am personally thinking of the serious consequences to a young child more than an adult

3.Would the Skunk be classed as a danger to the public in such circumstances.

4. Would the owner be classed as irresponsible and have the animal consficated.

5. Could the owner be charged with assualt or endangering the public or some other charge.

6. Does the fact that it is not a DWA listed animal negate it from any of the above.

I am asking these questions becuase I feel the Skunks pose a particalar problem that not many have thought about. Many people use quotes like ' like walking a dog' but in fact it is a whole new phenomenum.
I am told a Skunks spray is exceedingly painful if it is in the eyes and can blind you for a short period of time. I am told the bite from one can be very bad.
There are numerous other questions like, if an owners child was to be bitten badly and needed hospital treatment are there potential consequences for this ie social services.

Please feel free to add your own questions or feel free to tell me if you think the qustions are irrelevent.

Best Wishes

Ps As an Edit just thought i would add that we are not asking thses questions as a pre feeler to walking ours. We personally would not walk ours outdoors but each to their own.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think that you have raised some very valid points  I am unsure of the answers to them though so will hope that someone with more knowledge of public liability and such like can help.

Perhaps a PM to AZUK would help? Dave runs a animal experience company and deals a lot with young children and such like and should know about this sort of thing (he is also a skunk keeper!)


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

um, i think it should be ok, the skunk will not bite or spray someone unless the person did something to them, if they do get sprayed its just spray isnt it? not like blinding or acid?


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

We took the kids to the fair in Skegness yesterday. A man was standing watching one of the rides with two huskies on leads next to him. Several people walked past him and stroked the dogs as they passed. If they were to be bitten it would be their own fault for touching a strange dog without the owner's permission.

I would say this would be the same with a skunk. If I happened to be walking mine (which I plan to, but only around our village and my garden) and I was approached by somebody, I would request that they don't touch him because he might bite. As for spraying, I wouldn't want to take an intact skunk out and about in public just in case.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Skunk spray isn't as simple as a quick wee sadly! It can have temporary effects of blindness and burning if it comes into contact with the eyes and the smell can linger for a LONGGGGG time.

I think it is an individual thing whether you feel your skunk is socialised well enough to be in a public place - NErys recentyl brought Quanah here - he is only a baby and is fully in tact but didn't once show any sign of spraying even when ym kids were running round at 200 miles an hour in the garden with him!!


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

lots of good points

as far as i know, taking one out, at the moment, is no different to taking out a dog, in terms of what you "need" to take one..

as they are not licensed animals, i don't see where the restriction would come from.

if you take them out to an event, i believe thats different, in terms of public liability and so on.. and certainly if you take them out and get paid for it, i would think its different again.

_* Would you need some form public liability insurance if you take them out in public. Imagine the Skunk spraying someone or biting someone.*_
1) not that i know of. the scenting issue is one only now becoming an issue.. the biting.. well.. a dog, cat, or rat (which i see out from time to time) can also bite.. i'm not aware dog owners need public liability, so don't see why a skunk, which needs no more in law than a dog to own, would either.

_*2. If the Skunk sprayed someone, could any action be taken against you or the Skunk be it the RSPCA, polce or whoever. I am personally thinking of the serious consequences to a young child more than an adult*_
2) i really don't know. and i take a fully loaded one out.. i'll have to ask on that one.. again, i don't think anything could be done legally against you.. although the people who got hit might not be too happy.. oddly enough, a lot of people want to know what it DOES smell like. if i could train Q to spray on command i would be on a winner! Pee me off?? TAKE THAT... Mwwhhhahhhahhaaaaa (lol)

_* 3.Would the Skunk be classed as a danger to the public in such circumstances.*_
3) i don't think so.. yes it smells, yes if its in the eyes it stings.. but as far as i am aware, it would not be a "danger" as such.. its not going to kill you.. or cause permanent damage. it might make you throw up.. but its not going to kill you. and for sure, you will learn not to go so fiercely rounds animals.. 

* 4. Would the owner be classed as irresponsible and have the animal consficated.
5. Could the owner be charged with assualt or endangering the public or some other charge.*
4 and 5 ) again. i don't think so.. but i would need to check. i'm not sure who i check with.. i'll check that too!!! someone official must have an answer somewhere along the way, i'll see what we can dig out. i would like to see them try and take mine tho!.. this would be a handy time to have Q trained as in Q2

_* 6. Does the fact that it is not a DWA listed animal negate it from any of the above.*_
6) yes i think so.. if someone is walking a cat.. or a rabbit.. or a guinea pig.. or a rat.. then they do not "need" permission to keep one or to do so.. if skunks do not need a license too keep, i find it hard to believe you would need a license to take them out with you. in over two years of taking mine up and down the uk to anything and everything.. no one has ever asked me to provide a license for doing so. they might have looked at me as if i am mad.. but i am used to that.. 

rory was approached by an anti the other day, who said he should not have a skunk.. when asked why, she replied that animals should not be kept in captivity...

at which point one of the people in the crowd around rory, asked her, why in that case, she had a dog on a lead, by her side....:bash: dumb cow..


skunk bites, yes, they can be bad.

so can dog bites. yet people walk them off the lead in public areas.. 

the main thing is for the person responsible for the skunk, not to let it get into a situation where it will bite someone. the skunks i take out and about to public places. i know i will get innundated by hands wanting to touch, so i do not take the ones i know are not rock solid with people. i am lucky that most of mine are exceptional, and i can trust as much as a normal person would do their pet dog. but yes. i do make sure they are not exposed to a situation they could turn and harm someone in. 

quanah.. Mister Fully Loaded.. has so far never gone off in public. but has done at home.. he's been exceptionally good so far.. he met whats probably not far off a thousand people the other day.. running about their feet, following me round the courtyard.. and not a peep from him at all.. we did ask people not to run up to him full pelt.. and people were told he was fully loaded.. imo if they had been sprayed after that warning.. i would have made a joke about it.. and removed him from the situation.. but it would have been their fault for not listening to what i asked. and my fault for not preventing him from being in the situation where it could happen. the event was Woolston Hall, IHS reptile awareness day, bank holiday monday just gone. i know they had about 700 people in.. and we also toured the grounds with one in arms and one by feet.. he met so many people that day.. and was so so so so exceptionally good.. literally running about on the ground with kids and dogs and bikes and footballs and scooters all whizzing around him.. following other peoples feet.. being hugged by children.. he even snuggled up for a bit with a guy in a wheel chair who could only move his eyes.. we put his hands on quanah so he could feel him.. and then snuggled him into the guys face so he could feel and smell him too.. was i mad.. letting a "wild animal" that close to a helpless person?? i don't think so.. you learn to *read* your animals.. i would have done the same with Pro, or Snuff (who loves wheelie rides) who were also with me that day.

but yes, as with a dog.. if one of mine bit someone badly, i would expect questions, and i would expect to be "told off" and i would certainly not take them out again. same as if one of my dogs bit someone. 

the difference is a dog bite from one of mine could kill you.. a skunk bite.. although nasty and painful.. i can't see being fatal... but yes, i would take it seriously none the less... they could take off a finger very easily. its one of Pros party pieces.. and quanahs too, tho snuff is not so keen. but we do "show us your teeth" and everyone always goes "Ooooooooooooooooooooooo" lol.. i am sure Pro grins after.. he has dracula fangs that boy!

Mars you will never see out and about, because he tried to remove my finger one day.. so yes, i do understand how bad a bite can be.. the thing is i think, to know your animals. know when they have had enough. know when to leave them at home. know where is ok (to them) to take them. 

it does raise interesting points.. if dogs are allowed at reptile shows.. albeit in the car / car park.. then why not skunks  if the car park is on public grounds, and dogs are allowed on those.. then why not??

mondays event, was in a place that allows dogs to be walked all over.. so we took the skunks along to the IHS public open day.. and milled about outside with all the other people and dogs.. i can't honestly see the difference between me taking the skunks for a picnic, and joe bloggs down the road taking his yorkie.. or staffy.. or gsd.. he is expected to keep his animal under control, and i am expected to keep mine under control. we both don't let them foul public places.. or endanger other animals or people.. the fact one is a skunk, and one is a dog.. to me.. is no difference.. they are both pets, even if one is more unusual than the other..

N


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

MrsP said:


> We took the kids to the fair in Skegness yesterday. A man was standing watching one of the rides with two huskies on leads next to him. Several people walked past him and stroked the dogs as they passed. If they were to be bitten it would be their own fault for touching a strange dog without the owner's permission.
> 
> I would say this would be the same with a skunk. If I happened to be walking mine (which I plan to, but only around our village and my garden) and I was approached by somebody, I would request that they don't touch him because he might bite. As for spraying, I wouldn't want to take an intact skunk out and about in public just in case.


o my bad lol maby i should have done some reserch befor poasting lol


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi XoxOriptideOxoX,

I dont believe that is really the case, a skunk that feels threatened can spray, it does not need to be stroked etc. The spay can cuase temporary blindness and is extremely painful.

MrsP with deepest respect if I know my dog has the potential to bite and it bites the children who are stroking it, who's fault is it ?. It is mine for 1 not having the dog muzzled and 2 allowing the children to stroke it. If those dogs had bitten at the fair i would bet that some form of action would have been taken.
Cogratolations on your new addition to your family.:2thumb:


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

That's it though, if you had a dog that had the potential to bite you'd take the necessary precautions, like muzzling and not allowing people to stroke it. I would do the same.

However if somebody goes to touch a dog they don't know, they shouldn't be complaining if they get bitten. I've seen people out and about with some lovely looking dogs but I would never go and touch one without permission, or an invitation, if I did so and got bitten it would be my fault.

Reminds me of a joke

Woman stops to chat to a man standing next to a nice looking dog and she says "Does your dog bite?" and the man said, "No".

The woman bends down to stroke the dog and gets a vicious bite.

"I thought you said your dog didn't bite?"

"That's not my dog".


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Definitely food for though there Kodakira, having both been sprayed and chewed on by the same skunk I can definitely say neither are pleasant. 



XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> um, i think it should be ok, the skunk will not bite or spray someone unless the person did something to them, if they do get sprayed its just spray isnt it? not like blinding or acid?


It is temporarily blinding, and it stings like the stingiest stingy thing from Planet Stingy when it hits your eyes. Whilst the chances of anyone getting sprayed by a well socialised skunk are quite small, there is always the chance that something else, other than the person sprayed, which caused the skunk to fire off, e.g. car backfiring, someone accidentally tripping over the kerb as they are distracted by the sight of someone walking a skunk down the road and landing on your skunk, even someones dog taking offence to a skunk walking down the road...I hate to use the term anything could set it off as it sounds like they just spray at the drop of a hat...but anything could set them off.
You don't even have to be sprayed to be affected, one of the cameramen who filmed Pepe for Animal 24/7 vomitted almost immediately after Pepe sprayed, and he was only in the immediate vicinity.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Some good points raised and an interesting thread. I know most people are good skunk owners and they are becoming more and more popular pets but I cant help thinking that if an idiot buys one and takes it out with them and it either sprays a child or worse bites a child then it will be the perfect ammunition for the anti's out there. You can imagine the knee jerk reaction by the government if something bad were to happen.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Fixx said:


> it stings like the stingiest stingy thing from Planet Stingy when it hits your eyes.


What a wonderful way to put it hehehe


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

The same as when an idiot buys a Rottweiler and trains it to be aggressive then wonders why it mauls a 2 year old child to death.

You're right though Andy, because skunks are unusual, the reaction would be much stronger.

I suspect that most idiots wouldn't be stupid enough to buy a skunk, as they're generally the type of people who would stop you in the street and have a go at you for having a stinky animal. Ignorance is probably one of the reasons why we don't have morons walking around with skunks - they'd be too scared of getting sprayed themselves.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

stinging i can bet!.. well it makes your eyes water just to smell it.. bet its not fun IN the eyes.. i have been hit in the face and chest.. and it does tingle and burn a little on bare skin.. i was in glasses both times. so did not get it in the eyes tho.

even at 7 weeks, they are bloody accurate i have to say!

its not a clear liquid like you might think either.. more like an orange paste..

N


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi MrsP

Could not the opposite happen, the morons with the Awwwwwwwwwwwwww its so cute. I want one of the those !!! buy them.
They become a fashion accessory and instead of the Shitzu under the arm, they have a skunk. You never know they might get dyed pink.
Don't laugh, you never know !!!!, there are some real morons about.

Best wishes


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

MrsP said:


> The same as when an idiot buys a Rottweiler and trains it to be aggressive then wonders why it mauls a 2 year old child to death.
> 
> You're right though Andy, because skunks are unusual, the reaction would be much stronger.
> 
> I suspect that most idiots wouldn't be stupid enough to buy a skunk, as they're generally the type of people who would stop you in the street and have a go at you for having a stinky animal. Ignorance is probably one of the reasons why we don't have morons walking around with skunks - they'd be too scared of getting sprayed themselves.


Hopefully, they are cool little critters I would hate to see some tit spoiling it for everyone.: victory:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i have to say, i agree in a way.. they are becoming more popular these days.. partly due to people like me who have bomb proof friendly ones.. and take them out and about.. plaster them over the net.. and so on.

not all skunks are as good as mine, not all of my skunks are as good as each other (in terms of human contact) 

i do worry a little that give it a few years and there will be higher numbers of less people tolerant skunks about looking for homes in the uk

whilst they CAN make exceptional pets.. they do not always make them.. i think most people will be less tolerant of a nervous skunk, than they will be of a nervous dog or cat.. they are less understood. and they are at the moment, because of that, more at risk from abuse. whether that by abuse by diet. or by housing or whatever..

N


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

Fixx said:


> Definitely food for though there Kodakira, having both been sprayed and chewed on by the same skunk I can definitely say neither are pleasant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes i know i was wrong lol  IM A FAILURE  but i new the smell stunk but i didnt know it was like that  =-]

kida wired question but can skunks have there liek srpay thing removed?


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Andy said:


> Some good points raised and an interesting thread. I know most people are good skunk owners and they are becoming more and more popular pets but I cant help thinking that if an idiot buys one and takes it out with them and it either sprays a child or worse bites a child then it will be the perfect ammunition for the anti's out there. You can imagine the knee jerk reaction by the government if something bad were to happen.


 
I agree. 

I think there has to be a balance as an exotic keeper between a) trying to prevent 'anti fuel' events happening and b) trying to allow exotic keeping to become widespread and *accepted *so there are more responsible exotics keepers to oppose antis. Plus the bigger the exotic community the better for keepers in my opinion.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi XoxOriptideOxoX.

No they cannot be descented anymore, it is illegal

Best wishes


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi Pouchie,

I sound like a right plank tonight:whistling2:

I dont think bigger is neccessarily better. I would rather there be fewer exotic animal keepers with right attitude to there animals than more with the wrong attitude.

Best wishes


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> i have to say, i agree in a way.. they are becoming more popular these days.. partly due to people like me who have bomb proof friendly ones.. and take them out and about.. plaster them over the net.. and so on.
> 
> not all skunks are as good as mine, not all of my skunks are as good as each other (in terms of human contact)
> 
> ...


 
Would not/ will not be an issue if breeders have contracts making owners return unwanted skunks to them.

I know I always say the same thing but I strongly believe the 'breeder' should remain responsible for all animals they ever breed.

I know the 'owner' _should_ take full responsibility for life but circumstances change and besides, lets face it, that aint gonna always happen.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

oh trust me it will happen pouchie

who exactly is going to get their money back from say...

simon? or from the pet shops he sold them to???

N


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

kodakira said:


> Hi Pouchie,
> 
> I sound like a right plank tonight:whistling2:
> 
> ...


Most definitely but with such a huge variety of 'exotic' pets now available the scope is huge. I don't suggest it would be great if there were more skunks than cats in the UK but skunks make up a small number of 'exotic' pets. In my opinion, hamsters make crap pets. A Duprasi, being 'exotic' has everything a hamster has (small, cute, easily cared for) but they don't bite. Hamsters bite. I just think there is potential for a wider 'responsible' exotic community than there is right now.

Many species make fab pets but people are ignorant to them and do not know they exist. 

Sorry.. I am going way off topic now :bash:


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

If I may I would like to explain the reasoning behind some of my questions.

When one of my children was born, the mid wife came as they do. She heard the dogs barking ( 5 of them at that time ). asked a few questions and went. The next thing we know the Drs had informed us that the woman had alerted them about us. Luckily the Drs knew us and politely put the mid wife right. Now imagine a skunk in the house.

Also when a lot younger one of my sons was accidently bitten by an 8 week old puppy whilst playing with it. My son had been told not to put his face near the dog whilst playing, but as they do, they never listen. He got a cut behind his ear that required stitching, what an absolute nightmare at the hospital, talk about 1001 questions.
Now imagine peoples ignorance to skunks.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

well i have only had 1 really negative thing from anyone since taking my skunk out with me and that was the woman at the post office telling me he stank like wet dogs.............nah that was me that stank of wet dogs lol 

my skunk is fully loaded and very well socialised and i want to keep it that way thats why i take him out with me now and again 

he aint a biter and yeah he has sprayed before but had the life scared out of him to do it 

when he is out an about with me he loves it he is so interested in everything all the new smells around him and he loves the attention when people stop me to ask about him 

im not sure about any of the answers to the questions but if i thought there was a risk he would spray left right and centre or it would scare him taking him out then i wouldnt do it 

but he loves it so i wont take that away from him cos of a few ignorant people in the world


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> oh trust me it will happen pouchie
> 
> who exactly is going to get their money back from say...
> 
> ...


 
Good point but Simon advertises himself as a breeder and then sells imports too. I think if people are going to sell imports they should take 'breeder style' responsibility and if Simon gets UKCB stuff then the breeder should still take responsibility.

Yes it is more complicated when it comes to pet shops but if shops maintain a good relationship with their breeders I don't see why they couldnt return animals to the breeder.

Ok so it might be real hard work to make buyers agree to take their pet back to the shop if they ever have to rehome it but if this were common practice, there would be fewer animals bred overall and no rescue centres. Only wildlife rescue.

Sounds good to me.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi Emmaj, 

Its not particularly about these narrow minded people or the foul mothed people. 

I was asking these question literally from the skunk owners point of view, as to what people thought the consequences could be if something were to happen. Its not particularly a question as to how people feel how well their skunks do or do not socialise or how much they trust them. Ir was just a question of peoples thoughts on consequences.

Best wishes


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

kodakira,

You have raised such good questions that I don't think anyone knows the answers.

There will be black and white answers to your original questions, as opposed to opinions.

I for one have not been able to find out any legalities relating to skunks so would not like to comment on liability etc.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

kodakira said:


> Hi Emmaj,
> 
> Its not particularly about these narrow minded people or the foul mothed people.
> 
> ...


yeah i know what ya was meaning: victory:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Thinking of the powers that be and their reactions to other circumstances I would imagine if a kid got bitten by a skunk and required hospital treatment you could say goodbye to your skunk. thats if you had it out in public. I could see it being plastered all over the newspapers too "Child attacked by fearsome skunk" etc etc. Then you would have all the anti groups chipping in their twopenneth on how skunks shouldn't be pets etc.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Andy said:


> Thinking of the powers that be and their reactions to other circumstances I would imagine if a kid got bitten by a skunk and required hospital treatment you could say goodbye to your skunk. thats if you had it out in public. I could see it being plastered all over the newspapers too "Child attacked by fearsome skunk" etc etc. Then you would have all the anti groups chipping in their twopenneth on how skunks shouldn't be pets etc.


 
Yeah and we all have a big debate on The Sun forum trying to explain how great skunks are and they would delete all our posts as quick as we could type them and so and so on...


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi Nerys thanks for your reply earlier, I hope you dont mind me picking your brains. 

A few years ago there was the craze for the pot bellied pigs, forgive me if I am wrong but I think you did not need a license to keep one but wasn;t there legislation for taking them out for a walk. I know it was nothing to do with being a physical danger but there was some beaurocracy about them.
I just thought that although no licence is needed to keep them there may actually be broad legislation that is already in place that could be used by whoever to cover skunks.

Best wishes


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> Yeah and we all have a big debate on The Sun forum trying to explain how great skunks are and they would delete all our posts as quick as we could type them and so and so on...


 
LOL that was sooooooooo much fun :devil::lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Pouchie said:


> Good point but Simon advertises himself as a breeder and then sells imports too. I think if people are going to sell imports they should take 'breeder style' responsibility and if Simon gets UKCB stuff then the breeder should still take responsibility.
> 
> Yes it is more complicated when it comes to pet shops but if shops maintain a good relationship with their breeders I don't see why they couldnt return animals to the breeder.
> 
> ...


simon is a business.. an animal farmer if you like.. he would not take an animal back after a week, let alone several months, unless it was to re-sell it again. imports or so called UKCB.. and i don't personally know any UK breeders of anything UK born species i am familiar with who supply him right now... he is a business, a stockist, a supplier.. not a charity or home breeder.. you cannot get attached when you deal with thousands of animals a week.. heavens you would barely even recognize one amongst the many.

i personally agree that contracts to rehome via the breeder would be a good thing. but you have to think that not all the breeders care either.. to many of the suppliers, an animal is a product that once sold, is sold. we are not all cozy businesses operating from home style set ups.. animals like skunks and ferrets and racoons are bred for other things as well as pets.. there is no fur ranch in the world is going to rehome an animal they have bred.. unless its via a set of gloves or a muff, whether it be in the UK, the EU, the USA or Canada..

large scale commercial breeders/suppliers or importers have commercial interest in these animals, not compassionate interest. the world is not fluffy, and people are not always nice. the concern for the animals wellbeing is limited in the main to those who can afford or wish to keep them as pets and not as products with a price tag attached.. to people with a large scale operation, who deal in hundreds of thousands of animal lives a month. a life is worth what it makes at sale and nothing more.

there is no way on this planet, people like simon, would make a buyer sign a contract with someone to rehome via him what to him is a stock item if they get bored of it or cannot look after it anymore. sign the cheque, or the credit card slip yes.. otherwise. not a chance.

Nerys


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

kodakira said:


> Hi Nerys thanks for your reply earlier, I hope you dont mind me picking your brains.
> 
> A few years ago there was the craze for the pot bellied pigs, forgive me if I am wrong but I think you did not need a license to keep one but wasn;t there legislation for taking them out for a walk. I know it was nothing to do with being a physical danger but there was some beaurocracy about them.
> I just thought that although no licence is needed to keep them there may actually be broad legislation that is already in place that could be used by whoever to cover skunks.
> ...


we'll try and find out yes.. the law is an odd one.. for instance in 1765 a law was passed that stands to this day and says that you should not let your dog off a lead in public.. anywhere.. and yet a lot of people do not know about that, and do not clearly listen to it either..

rory has some more info on it.. i will get him to post it rather than tell me about it, so i can not forget half of it as i type!

N


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> simon is a business.. an animal farmer if you like.. he would not take an animal back after a week, let alone several months, unless it was to re-sell it again. imports or so called UKCB.. and i don't personally know any UK breeders of anything UK born species i am familiar with who supply him right now... he is a business, a stockist, a supplier.. not a charity or home breeder.. you cannot get attached when you deal with thousands of animals a week.. heavens you would barely even recognize one amongst the many.
> 
> i personally agree that contracts to rehome via the breeder would be a good thing. but you have to think that not all the breeders care either.. to many of the suppliers, an animal is a product that once sold, is sold. we are not all cozy businesses operating from home style set ups.. animals like skunks and ferrets and racoons are bred for other things as well as pets.. there is no fur ranch in the world is going to rehome an animal they have bred.. unless its via a set of gloves or a muff, whether it be in the UK, the EU, the USA or Canada..
> 
> ...


 
ok so suppliers is tough but pet shops/ breeders, it is feasible.

A huge garden centre near us are great on animal welfare and take back animals which they then rehome. 

This is a whole different topic anyway so I'll stop going on about it now LOL

Hope Rory can enlighten us re the original post.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

lol yus.. come on rory.. put travian down!!!

on the rehoming thing.. i think there are plenty of people on here alone, who would take in skunks regardless of the state they were in..

me, ray and lou, there is a lady near me who already has two rehomes via the rspca, emmaj.. i think most of the skunk owners on here would step in to help another skunk if they had the chance to do so..

N


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2006)

I agree with pouchie (sorry everyone I am going off topic too) if the smaller hobby breeders started something like this, (I do do it with alot of my own animals now but have only ever had a pair of gliders returned to me) and made it known they do, in time (and yes I am not stupid it will take alot of time) it may become the norm for alot of people that breed. People after that spacific exotic will know if it does not work out they do have a fall back and will look for this kind of service. I know the world is not perfect and I do not live in lar lar land but it is done by a very small minority and it does work to some extent. 

And I am talking about the UK not Europe or America, I know of some shops (not many but some) that do something similar if not the same, and it works well for them and their customers. They are shops I happily go back to because I know their after care is great


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

We are in for rescuing Skunks, N.E England. Please bear us in mind, we will always be here to help.


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

Nerys said:


> lol yus.. come on rory.. put travian down!!!
> 
> on the rehoming thing.. i think there are plenty of people on here alone, who would take in skunks regardless of the state they were in..
> 
> ...


I'm always up for a challenge, I've rehomed some very badly abused dogs and many chinchillas in a state. Our GSD was a bag of bones covered in matted fur when I got her. She's now a big fat gorgeous lump of dog who licks kittens.

On the idea about sending an unwanted skunk back to its origin, good idea, but would it happen? I bought a skunk from somebody who bought him from Nerys. If I'd seen the ad elsewhere, and wasn't a member here, who would have known about it? 

Glad I found him, he is quite overweight and is now on a strict diet. Doesn't seem to mind much, he's snuggled up next to me on the sofa now looking cute.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> there is no fur ranch in the world is going to rehome an animal they have bred.. unless its via a set of gloves or a muff,..


 
sorry guys, and just to add, if you were to import from a fur ranch for pets, IMO the least you would owe those animals would be to take them back if they were ever in trouble.

supporting fur farms sucks in my humble opinion.


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

This is my bag of bones rescued GSD, licking a kitten...










She's about 13 now.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

MrsP said:


> On the idea about sending an unwanted skunk back to its origin, good idea, but would it happen? I bought a skunk from somebody who bought him from Nerys. If I'd seen the ad elsewhere, and wasn't a member here, who would have known about it?


 
You would get this if the person was too embarrassed to come back to you for help for some reason. i.e if the skunk was overweight they might not want the breeder to think badly of them for feeding incorrectly.

I agree with you, it is unlikely Nerys (for example) would have known he was being rehomed but the seller did not have the 'official' option to take him back to Nerys direct so we can't comment really. 

I know it is a can of worms but if I was prime minister 1)its the first thing i would roll out and 2)god help us all :lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

no the first i knew of it was when he was on here for sale

i know we sold one to someone called michelle who lived in middlesborough so i did guess it was her, i actually pm'd her to ask if it was her. and as she and most of you well know, we handle sales for private buyers and sellers all over the UK, so she could, and she would have known this, asked us to find a buyer from our client base, who would have been vetted before being allowed to take the animal. 

and she would have known he would have been welcome back here. it does not need to be official, everyone knows me and skunks, mike and michelle included. and with TSKA being a business, if i did insist on them coming back here, i would only be accused to doing that so i could sell them on again..

trouble is.. i do not have unlimited funds.. i could not, at this time, afford to spend 550 on a skunk.

sure he could come back to me.. any skunk will always have a home with me if needed.. but i could not afford to buy him back, and why should michelle let him go for free when there are people like MrsP who will pay her, and give a good home??

like the one in wales at the moment, i know we sold a male black and white to a couple in wales, he is the right age sex and area for it to be one from us.. but it could be one from seb or someone else just as easily.

he would be welcome to come back here yes, even if he is too nervous to come out much.. even tho i did not breed him.. i brokered him.. but again.. i do not have 550 to be able to do that. i already said to MrsP or kodakira earlier on pm.. if they take credit cards, i'll leave to get him now.. but how many private people take cards? not many.

this taking back of an animal by the breeder is all very well, but not all breeders can afford to buy back the animals months or years after they have been sold. and its not right that i should expect them to be given back to me for nothing is it? the money i get from selling my animals, is used to do things like pay the rent, buy more food for them.. the last two angora ferrets for instance have paid for a new 12ft avairy which i collect tomorrow, to be used to house their brothers sisters mothers and fathers back here. i'm not, regretably, a charity.. i cannot afford to sell an animal and keep the money in the bank on the offchance i might need to buy it back in 12 months time.

N


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

mmmm, 

An interesting thread with good comments.



!. Would you need some form public liability insurance if you take them out in public. Imagine the Skunk spraying someone or biting someone.

2. If the Skunk sprayed someone, could any action be taken against you or the Skunk be it the RSPCA, polce or whoever. I am personally thinking of the serious consequences to a young child more than an adult

3.Would the Skunk be classed as a danger to the public in such circumstances.

4. Would the owner be classed as irresponsible and have the animal consficated.

5. Could the owner be charged with assualt or endangering the public or some other charge.

6. Does the fact that it is not a DWA listed animal negate it from any of the above.

These are excellent questions, but to be brutally honest, Private Skunk ownership in the UK is somewhat a grey area in so far as these questions relate to.

I can see answers to some of them, and think that they would be correct, but will not commit myself to those answers without any kind of back up.
So l will do some research tomorrow and comment then.

Regards Rory


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Well i for one just like ray and nerys would take in a skunk in any state if it needed a home 

infact it was something that me an nerys were talkin about the other night a form of skunk rescue and helpline 

but that would need volunteers i would be more than willing to play a part init and im sure others would too 

but its something we should seriously consider now skunks are becoming so popular


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i also think there is a common misconception with the words rehoming and sale

MrSnuggles was NOT rehomed.. he was SOLD. if he had needed rehoming.. which to me implies being given away free or for little charge, to find a new home.. he would have been welcome.. but as it is, i could not afford to BUY him back just because he was put up for SALE.. as it is, i know what michelle paid for MrSnuggles, and it was not as much as he was sold for.. even so, i would not have had the £350 that she paid for him either.. *hey ho*

N


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

nope. I am suggesting buyers sign to agree to take the animal back to the breeder so they can rehome it. I am not suggesting the breeder should 'buy' the animal back. The buyer should foot the financial loss. The animal is the breeder's responsibility. The money is the buyer's responsibility when they choose to buy the animal in the first place. 

Why the hell should someone be able to buy a skunk for £500, enjoy him for say 2 years then get their £500 back??? Sod that.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Pouchie said:


> sorry guys, and just to add, if you were to import from a fur ranch for pets, IMO the least you would owe those animals would be to take them back if they were ever in trouble.
> 
> supporting fur farms sucks in my humble opinion.


as said, we will always take back an animal.

but i cannot always afford to buy it back.. especially when there has been another 200 put on it in the intervening year.

i could buy it back, and then my animals here would go without food for a month... whats the point of that!

N


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> nope. I am suggesting buyers sign to agree to take the animal back to the breeder so they can rehome it. I am not suggested the breeder should 'buy' the animal back. The buyer should foot the financial loss. The animal is the breeder's responsibility. The money is the buyer's responsibility when they choose to buy the animal in the first place.
> 
> Why the hell should someone be able to buy a skunk for £500, enjoy him for say 2 years then get their £500 back??? Sod that.


 
but no1 thats paid that kind of money for an animal will take it back i doubt they would purchase if they had to sign that 

when people buy an exotic animal they usually get more than they paid for back for it when they sell it thats the sad thing with exotic animals


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Pouchie said:


> nope. I am suggesting buyers sign to agree to take the animal back to the breeder so they can rehome it. I am not suggesting the breeder should 'buy' the animal back. The buyer should foot the financial loss. The animal is the breeder's responsibility. The money is the buyer's responsibility when they choose to buy the animal in the first place.
> 
> Why the hell should someone be able to buy a skunk for £500, enjoy him for say 2 years then get their £500 back??? Sod that.



bearing in mind that at least half the skunks i know have changed hands at least twice since they left me..

i would be more than happy with that 

i would have a lot more skunks than i do now. a lot of people on this forum would not have had a skunk at all.. and it would have cost me nothing.. sounds good to me 

sorry MrsP but i'll have snuggles back now.. and ichi'smum.. if you would not mind handing her over now.. Chris.. sorry mate.. Sparx has to come back to me now.. sorry you won't get anything for them.. i have a right to take them back for nothing as i sold them in the first place??

i know i know... thats not how you meant it.. but.. 

its not as easy as, sign this, and give it back for free when you are done with it

we don't loan animals. we sell them. that means they are no longer ours to have a right over. contract or not, a good lawyer would say it was not worth the paper its written on.

but as said. tska are a animal broker.. i doubt there is anyone who is in the exotics market and does not know what we do. 

we act for people selling skunks.. and we act for people buying skunks, we can always find someone to buy a skunk.. everybody who has bought from us, know this.

and we can vet them too.. 

so.. there is no issue to my eyes.. bar people who do not want to resell via us, as they think they will get more money by doing it privately... and to be fair, they are within their rights to do that. once you have paid money for something, be it a car or a house or a skunk. it becomes your property, rightly or wrongly, and its not up to the person who has sold it, to dictate to you what to do with it.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> bearing in mind that at least half the skunks i know have changed hands at least twice since they left me..
> 
> i would be more than happy with that
> 
> ...


 
EXACTLY!!! Would reduce animals being given up altogether no? Less people would give their pet up at all if they could not SELL it. If the breeder gets to sell it twice then great. More money to go back into the mummys and daddys who produced the animals in the first place. 

Good point though Em, would people buy the animal if they could never get their money back? I dont want to sell to people who are worried about the money anyway.

And Nerys, a contract is a contract I would hope. I would not know if you are correct until someone tried to take me to court.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Nerys said:


> *bearing in mind that at least half the skunks i know have changed hands at least twice since they left me..*
> 
> 
> we act for people selling skunks.. and we act for people buying skunks, we can always find someone to buy a skunk.. everybody who has bought from us, know this.
> ...


Perhaps you should review your vetting procedures.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

why do threads always have to go this way :bash:


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## tillie (Jan 9, 2008)

I take George my skunk out with me when I walk the dogs. I feel this is good for him as he is being socialised and its far better for him than being stuck in the same 4 walls day in, day out. Obviously he draws attention although I do tend to walk where it is quieter like in the forest. Even though he has never bitten I tend to pick him up and hold his head if people want to stroke him. A lot of kids actomatically go to stroke his head and if their hands smell of sweets etc he may think its food, Im paranoid so am careful. I expect if a skunk bit someone then yes the owner would be liable as they would if a dog bit a member of the public. Even if an owner of a dogs says not to stoke it and someone ignores that the owner can be prosecuted and a control order placed on the dog (e.g to be kept on a lead or wear a muzzle or both in public). Under the Dangerous Dogs act a dog doesnt have to bite a member of the public just put them in fear for a prosecution to take place although sufficient evidence would be needed.
If they sprayed, I would expect a civil case could be taken.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i do know people who have had similar contract yes. and been laughed at when they tried to enforce it

rightly or wrongly, once a human has paid for an animal, its is theirs to do with as they see fit.. how its kept, what it eats.. and ultimately what happens to it afterwards

fixx.

when we sold to michelle.. for instance, we did not know that this year she would be pregnant and ill.. should we have refused the sale to her on the grounds she would have to sell this year. when we did not know she would? mike and michelle work in animal education, already had a skunk and other exotics, and yes, were fine on anyones scale of vetting.

no-one can predict the future.. all we can do is vet on what we know at the time, and can see at the time. life changes, it happens, maybe one day you will get sick.. or lou pregnant.. things happen fixx.. things change, you should know that.

say, god forbid, (cough) you dropped dead tomorrow in a car crash.. and lou was with you.. and your animals had to be rehomed.. does that mean we should not have let you buy two skunks from us last year???

things change as well you know. this time last year you could not admit you had a fully scented skunk.. 

if your landlord had found out, he might have evicted you.. 

would i have cleared you to have a skunk despite knowing you and your animals would have been homeless if he had found out? 

would people here have thought i was mad if i had turned you down because of that? yes they would!!! i know you can look after them, but were you not being irresponsible by taking a loaded one on, if you were worried it might result in your landlord evicting you, lou and all the animals that depend on you??

in fact that is part of the reason you do not like me isn't it fixx, as i said on here one day BEFORE you moved out, that you had a scented skunk. and promply got a pm from you screeching about not discussing your animals on here. 

how was i supposed to know you were hiding a secret skunk from your landlord incase you got made homeless?? 

before that i always knew you to be up front about what you owned, i was never told you were hiding Freds scented status.. 

i thought you were proud of having him!!! i had the comment taken off within moments and apologised to both you and lou, but you have never let it lie have you fixx.. *sigh* 

now you are in a house with a landlord that knows, you are happy to tell the world and his brother that you have fully loaded skunks.. 

as said. situations change fixx.. last june when you wanted me to sell you two skunks, you could not get enough of us... as well you know. i promised you and lou the first skunks i could find, to make up for you losing MaryJane and Stompy.. and you got just that.. i had yours names down on two females for you from the moment i knew i was being asked to get involved with the sale of some last year. i promised you i would find you skunks, and i did. and now you treat me like shit. would i have sold you them if i had known how you would then turn on me??? yeah i would have. i am a sucker.. i know you love your skunks. .i think you are a pratt but i know you love your skunks. i know they will have a home, and a good one, for as long as you are about to give them one. just because i think you are a plank, and you think i am a bitch, does not change how i know you care for your animals. and at least i am honest about what i think of you eh.

incidently, yes, we have totally changed our vetting procedure since last year.. especially on skunks.. and partly due to the way some of them were treated once they left us.

N


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

I would just like to add - I'm not a whim buyer. I would like a baby from Nerys next year and am happy to fill in a form and for her to come here and check out my suitability as an owner. It's nothing to do with Nerys if somebody who has bought from her sells the animal on. Frankly, as I sit here with him snuggled up against my leg, I can't understand for a minute why they sold him, but I'm very glad they did.

I care about my animals immensely and they are my life after work (which pays for them). I research every pet I get, and ensure they are kept well and given what they need so that they can thrive.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

I was not going to comment on this thread after my nitial input.

But to add just this:

Sadly the skunk as a pet due to its personal bearing and impact upon new pet owners is a huge responsibility, that is not the sad part, what is - is this. This animal is fast becoming commercially disposable as well as a hot property species.

Everyone suddenly wants a skunk as a pet, its like a craze a fad, a phenomena - but not everyone wants a loaded skunk as a pet.

People have realised this and there are in many cases two main reasons for re - sale - please note that term - RE - SALE not rehome.

Skunks are worth money to some people they are seen as a commodity, decented animals are worth more, some keepers buy them, get bored as do so many new age keepers and then either sell on or exchange on.

Shit, but it happens.

Another reason for re-sale l believe is this:

There are dog people, there are cat people and then there are skunk people, l think there are some excellent keepers out there, but they are simply put - not Skunk People.

I think that you need to be specifically a skunk person, not just a skunk keeper, but a skunk person.

I like the skunks we have here, l am very fond of most of them, l would not harm them in any way shape or form, but am l a skunk person? In the same way that Ray, Lou or Nerys are?

Is this a pet that l would have taken on board myself if not with Nerys? 

Have kept them before, but they were breeders and not personal pets, so yes as an exotic keeper maintainng a collection, but as a personal pet - no.

I am a dog person, l am a cat person, and l love the skunks, but l am not the skunk person, whereas Nerys totally is.

This is the big problem, people not understanding what is truly is like to be a true skunk person - corny as it may read, but Ray, Lou and Nerys, Emma J and the others will know what l mean.... its almost like something in your blood.

Why would Ray put up with being sprayed, knowing full well it was loaded? Because he loves skunks they are in his blood, the same applies to the other true skunk people.

You will know what l mean when you read this.

There are some excellent keepers out there as said, but whilst that may be the case, it does not mean that they are truly skunk people.

The premise behind writing this was this - vetting - you can pass as an excellent keeper, but there is no way any of us can forsee into the future if this personable little animal is truly a for you animal.

R


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

Oh and I'm trying to get the skunk in wales with somebody else I know so we can between us give it a good home.

I can't afford it and he can't home it, between us we might be able to sort it out.


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

And in response to what Rory said - I'm a skunk person.

We've discussed here how we would cope if we were sprayed. Neither of us care that much. We're prepared to deal with it, and I work in a school. So what if now and then I stink a bit! I would rather live with skunks and stink now and then than live without them. I can't imagine what it would be like here without a skunk to be honest.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Please keep this thread civil and not bring personal arguements to the forum.: victory:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Andy said:


> Please keep this thread civil and not bring personal arguements to the forum.: victory:


mwah hello andy :flrt::whistling2::lol2:

fankoo hunni :flrt:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

its not really an arguement andy, i know what i think of ray and so does he, and i know what he thinks of me.. so do most people on here 

i doubt it bothers ray that i think he is a plank.. it does not bother me that i know he thinks i am one :lol2:

it does not bother me, until he is doing his normal and posting just to have another dig at us.. 

when someone is being so hypercritical, and doing so in a way to try and undermine rory and i on a public forum, yes, i will point out it out.

N


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Nerys said:


> its not really an arguement andy, i know what i think of ray and so does he, and i know what he thinks of me.. so do most people on here
> 
> i doubt it bothers ray that i think he is a plank.. it does not bother me that i know he thinks i am one :lol2:
> 
> ...


I dont know what has gone on with you and Ray so I can only take the posts at face value.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

I have to agree with Rorys comments about being a Skunk person. On our website on the page labelled Breeding we have passed a commment about it takes a very special person to keep Skunks. 
This comment was not directed at us as we will leave it to other people to decide that, but we would like to think that we are or could be. It was directed at a couple of people on here who have always been there to advise and help.

It became quite apparent after a very short period that to keep a Skunk was a very special honour and we feel very priviliged to be able to keep them. My wife still has a massive beam on her face evertime she holds Ziva and states how lucky we are. It was also quite apparent in a very short time that keeping a skunk was not for everyone,
I truly believe that Skunks are going to be passed on like sweets over a shop counter. I am sorry but there is a wow factor, there is an awwwww factor but i wonder how long these last when it scents the house, the owner, the kids etc.
I also believe that many will end being dumped, just because people have paid money for them does not mean they will just not dump them. even high end pedigree dogs are dumped. I do hope I am wrong. Time will tell.

Best Wishes


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

No dumping here! I am in heaven with Mr Snuggles snuggling next to me. Even him indoors is getting off his arse taking photos!


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

kodakira said:


> I have to agree with Rorys comments about being a Skunk person. On our website on the page labelled Breeding we have passed a commment about it takes a very special person to keep Skunks.
> This comment was not directed at us as we will leave it to other people to decide that, but we would like to think that we are or could be. It was directed at a couple of people on here who have always been there to advise and help.
> 
> It became quite apparent after a very short period that to keep a Skunk was a very special honour and we feel very priviliged to be able to keep them. My wife still has a massive beam on her face evertime she holds Ziva and states how lucky we are. It was also quite apparent in a very short time that keeping a skunk was not for everyone,
> ...


 
And that is exactly the point.

I too forsee skunks being dumped, hell its already happened!

At first many will be resold. Then maybe rehomed, although the usual bloody bartering on an animals life will precede that, then comes the rehoming, and lastly the physical dumping of this species.

The political crap that follows that is all too well known.

Tis a shame, but it will happen.

I have already said, that whilst l am fond of them, they are not a specifically for me pet'. But l can see the attraction, and they are truly affectionate animals.

Owning both is the true test. Its all too easy to own a descented one. Ownership of a loaded one is a different matter.

They have the ability to use their defences and l know Quanah does, if startled, only tonight he sprayed.

But l have kept many different animals in the past, and l am used to animals.

Someone who may not be used to animals could easily purchase one [no l am not saying from us, for yes our vetting has increased in all departments and it is harder now for any species to be purchased] and it would only take one , just one accidenal spraying for many people to be put off future ownership.

I can tolerate, what many could not, l can accept what many will not, but many can not accept any error even if it is a simple as a startled spraying, by an animal.

Its sad, but the skunk as lovely as it is a species, a pet, will soon be as disposable as the dog, cat, guinea pig etc.

Do we stop selling?

No of course not, you just [as is our case] make it harder, ask more questions, really test out the potential owners.

Or perhaps we should stop selling them, but if that is the case, where then do you stop?

R


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

tbh andy i have never been too sure either..

he was fine with us last year.. up to the point someone asked about his skunks on here.. if they were scented or not..

they were not about to answer.. so i did.. i said something alongs the lines of them having two there were and one that was not..

what i did not realise, until lou then told me later.. was they were not publically talking about fred being fully loaded, as at the time they were worried that the landlord of their rented house, might not be too happy about having a loaded skunk in his property, and they were worried about being chucked out

they have since said this on the forums, so i am not saying anything thats secret any more.. its not like i am speaking on behalf of them, just repeating what they themselves have said on public forum..

ray then sent me a nasty pm.. saying how dare i speak about his animals.. to which i replied saying i was very sorry, i did not realise i had done something bad.. and i also pm'd the mods to get the comment taken off, i think it must have been on the forum for all of about 30 mins in all?

i did later catch lou on msn, and say. oh god i am sorry if i have done something wrong. but i really did not know you were hiding the fact you had a scented skunk. she told me there had been issues with neighbours and they were worried about the landlord.. i dare say i still have the convo somewhere tbh.. i apologised, she said never mind.. and that was that

or so i thought.

since then.. everytime fixx can he jumps on and has a dig at either rory or myself.. whether it be moaning about selling gambian pouched rats via us (for which they wanted X but had no buyer, and we had a buyer who wanted them.. they got their X and we got the remainder.. but its how TSKA works... everyone knows that, its no secret) or having sly digs like this one on this thread..

so i dunno andy. all i know is that ray thinks we are mud. and i think the same about ray. i don't think many people are not aware of that. i will, as you have seen, tell him openly what i think of him.. i dare say he is big enough and ugly enough to cope with that, just as i can live with what he thinks of me. its a big world. we can't all like each other. but at least i am honest about it. as you will always see on posts asking about skunks, i always say ask ray and lou, or fixx and lou. just because i think he is a xyz does not mean to say i think he cannot look after his animals, and is not worth asking for advice on how to keep them. i would always say to people to ask as many opinions as they can, and i have never said i think he is wrong about this that or the other..

its just life.. just the way it is. i don't like Ray and Ray does not like me. big deal. its not something i lose sleep over.. its not something that i would think he loses sleep over.. 

the things i have said on here are not made up. 

we did supply them with two female descented skunks last year. via Nikki at Gill and Geckos in Exeter, as she could buy them trade price from us, which was cheaper for ray and lou. i did not set the prices. they were not MY skunks, we were selling on behalf of someone else. yes i looked after them from the time they arrived, but they were not mine to dish out as i saw fit. they were sold to her, nikki, for £350 each, and picked up at exeter services from me last june? july? last summer anyway.. 

and i did promise them that i would try and find them a skunk after they had very sadly lost Snuffs sister Mary Jane, and their adult male Mr Stompy. thats not a lie, thats all true.. i don;t have a need to lie about it to begin with you see. why would i?? what would i gain by lying about it?? 

lou, i dare say, from the pm i got from you reading HOW DARE YOU.. that you hate me now.. well so be it. i will still. as i have said to you, have a soft spot for you, regardless of what you think of me and mine. 

i know both you and ray take exceptional care of your animals, and i have never said anything otherwise. i always say to people, to ask you, about gliders.. pouched rats.. iggys.. skunks.. i know you know your stuff and i know you are good at helping people with their animals. 

the fact i cannot stand your other half does not change that.. there are times i am not over fond of marie.. but i would still tell people to ask her for glider info.. i fell out with pete before.. but still told people to ask him for gtp info i think it was at the time... what i think of Ray does not change the fact he is a good keeper and knows a lot about his subject.. it just means i would not invite him to my wedding.. or send him a card on his birthday.. 

if you. or the mods. or other posters do not like that.. then please, do not expect me to be worried about that. i know he does not like me. i know i do not like him. he knows i do not like him.. if he gets off on making sly digs all the time.. then good luck to him. but do NOT expect me not to answer them from time to time. as that is just not going to happen.

anyway..

quanah just skunked snuff.. opps.. well he was stealing her food!

Nerys


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

I've also found one for sale in Wales. I cannot scrape the money together, but have asked a few friends if they can help. They can't.

I hope somebody can. I could do it over 2 months, just not all in one go.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

and i know the above is a little off topic, but i would rather people know what i think, and why i think it.. its a lot easier that way.. people think i am blunt about what i think. ah well.. at least i am honest about it.. 

lou i still loves ya.. even if you don't want me to.. i will still remember the little lass in the front seat going round a roundabout in essex 5 times whilst we tried to find that show! you cannot change that i am afraid.

back to skunks

yes i do think increasingly over the next few years there will be more skunks on the pet merrygo round.. and as a result.. more will fall off along the way.. especially now they come fully loaded.. and if not kept right are nervous bitey animals with a set of jaws that can remove fingers

you do indeed have to be a special person to be owned by a skunk!

N


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Nerys, 
Ive got to give it to you hun i dont know ANY ONE else in this hobby that would willingly do them selfs out of pocket and advise people to buy from this soruce or that source other than them selfs.
Hun you truly are about the animals and the customers and the money never (as far as i and im sure many others have seen) comes in to it.

And its all your fault we want a skunk, in fact we could have brought some a few times but havent as we are waiting for a few things to drop in to place first and i want the house compleatly skunk proofed.

The thing i have noticed is yes a lot more people want them i agree but even though these people are doing their research they are not following it through 110%.
Some people are buying them on a whim and others are putting in hours of questions and thought about getting a skunk.
I hope we dont see them becoming disposable either i dont think we have enough room here for loads lol


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

*NERYS WIND YOUR NECK IN!!!!!!!*

*What the hell is that huge chip on your shoulder? I lose an ounce of respect for you every time you post.*

*My full and sincere apologies to kodakira for the way this thread has been hijacked but **STOP TAKING EVERYTHING PERSONALLY!*

*None of my posts have been aimed at you. You are the only machievellian person on here. Fixx made a statement. This is a public forum and what the hell makes you think you can speak to Lou & Fixx the way you have but they are not allowed to speak??? *

*No wonder they do not post much, and at the complete detriment to the rest of us.*

*I felt sick to the stomach when I read your tirade against them and could not face reading the next onslaught.*

*I have successfully offered to take animals back for the last FOUR years so how dare you come on here claiming it is a load of sh*t that would never work.*

*As for your retort to the fur farm, I was referring to simons rodents! I did not know that you have imported from fur farms, I don't know anything about you except what you post on here. *

*You have pm'd me with a slanderous tirade against someone else making the assumption I knew them and would take the info back. WELL I DO NOT SO TOUGH!*

*I doubt a single soul will back me up here the way your henchmen will undoubtedly back you up but if that is why you feel so powerful then so be it. There is bugger all I can do except add my opinion to this public forum.*

*I believe much of the information you are so admired for is second hand and it would be lovely if you could find it in yourself to credit others now and then.*

*I feel so upset with myself for not being able to bite my tongue but your conduct should not be allowed.*


*flame away folks *


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

All im going to say and Nerys knows this yep she comes across as a stuck up cow at times but you REALLY have to meet her in person and take as look at what she actually does for people to know what she is like deep down, in fact i wish there were more like her, the brutal honesty she has is fantastic, if people have a problem with that then they are more than welcome to it but it is then their problem!
As for crediting people, did you not read her last post, she cares nothing about gaining credit for her self or how she thinks of people but if she KNOWS they are good keepers she in fact tells people to go to others!!!!

Dare i say at least 2 skunks on here would be dead right now if it wasnt for the fact that nerys gave the help she did the only difference with Nerys is she refuses to take the credit when its given to her and will not write an oscar winning perfomance for it either.
Seriously before you post things like that you really need to know the person behind the type face, Nerys KNOWS the people she has mentioned and if you dont like her great thats your choice but im sorry you will find a lot of us here love her and respect her for the PERSON we know she is .........
If that makes me one of her "hench *women" then great thats what i am and im proud to be it so :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

:-|:neutral::shock::roll::yeahright:Yes nerys is an extremely genuine, honest person, who isnt afriad to say what she thinks, if thats a bad thing then what is good!!! yes if she were to publically rip you to pieces on the forum, or anyone else it wouldnt be fair, but she has not done that, she has merely said her opinion, and has been honest about it, she has not said

i do not like..

i think .. is a .... 

which is EXACTLY what you have done

she has however said what she thinks but has ALSO SAID what other people think. 

if im one of her henchman, Hip hip hooray! wupdi :censor: do!


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Nerys said:


> i think you are a pratt
> 
> N





Nerys said:


> i doubt it bothers ray that i think he is a plank..
> 
> 
> N





Nerys said:


> i cannot stand your other half
> Nerys


 

to name a few.

now, farmercoope, SHOW ME WHERE I CALLED NERYS A NAME!

and Faith, I appreciate your mature response and taken on board but just to say, I didn't say I didn't like Nerys LOL. I am just defending people I respect in the same way you are trying to defend Nerys but her posts can't be defended. They are BANG out of order. I don't think you guys can have actually *read* what she has written.

Put it this way.. EIGHTY people read this before someone responded. Draw your own conclusion...


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> to name a few.
> 
> now, farmercoope, SHOW ME WHERE I CALLED NERYS A NAME!
> 
> ...


Lol im not defending Nerys at all I KNOW Nerys to say what i think of her do you know is it Ray and Lou? or Nerys personally?
Yup Eighty people may have read it and not replied shall i tell you why that is ........because Nerys posts make people gob smacked beit good or bad people dont know which way to take her at all but again thats their choice.
Im sure if Ray or Lou have a problem with what Nerys posted they would have told her allbeit on the forum or in a PM.

Nerys will always post what she thinks you could say its her thinking out loud and even if it were me being replied to by nerys she certianly wouldnt hold back and i wouldnt expect her to, she is the one you go to when you want the blatent harsh truth lol.
But i still very strongly believe that we as an animal comunity need more people like her i dont think any one can argue that!

Edit you asked for where you called nerys a name
you did you told her she was being "machiavellian" that means "to describe a person's tendency to deceive and manipulate others for personal gain." for the people that dont know.


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

i didnt say nerys didnt say those things, but i said this 



farmercoope said:


> she has however said what she thinks but has ALSO SAID what other people think.


which is different than slandering someone and not saying also what they think, she was not slandering them like you,

chip on shoulder?
wind neck back in?

also faith has mentioned another. Im sure if you re-read the posts you wouldnt of needed to ask me those


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

ok guys this is getting stupid if you want to argue cant you go else where instead of ruining this persons post? this was a good question that a lot of us are interested in SO CAN YOU PLEASE ALL GO FIGHT SOMEWHERE ELSE so us people that are intrested can get back to the subject :bash:


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

I am posting these questions in response to another thread about taking a Beared Dragon out on a shoulder and Skunk walking became involved. I feel with skunks becoming more popular and people taking them out in public it raises some potential issues for the Skunk and the owner.

This post is not about specific people and whether it is right or wrong for them to take their Skunks for a walk, I would like it to be a discussion on these specific questions.

!. Would you need some form public liability insurance if you take them out in public. Imagine the Skunk spraying someone or biting someone.

2. If the Skunk sprayed someone, could any action be taken against you or the Skunk be it the RSPCA, polce or whoever. I am personally thinking of the serious consequences to a young child more than an adult

3.Would the Skunk be classed as a danger to the public in such circumstances.

4. Would the owner be classed as irresponsible and have the animal consficated.

5. Could the owner be charged with assualt or endangering the public or some other charge.

6. Does the fact that it is not a DWA listed animal negate it from any of the above.

I am asking these questions becuase I feel the Skunks pose a particalar problem that not many have thought about. Many people use quotes like ' like walking a dog' but in fact it is a whole new phenomenum.
I am told a Skunks spray is exceedingly painful if it is in the eyes and can blind you for a short period of time. I am told the bite from one can be very bad.
There are numerous other questions like, if an owners child was to be bitten badly and needed hospital treatment are there potential consequences for this ie social services.

Please feel free to add your own questions or feel free to tell me if you think the qustions are irrelevent.

Best Wishes

Ps As an Edit just thought i would add that we are not asking thses questions as a pre feeler to walking ours. We personally would not walk ours outdoors but each to their own.


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

well everyone is different i walk mine out on a lead i dont have the scent prob as shes de-scented and if anyone wants to stroke her i let them know she dosent bite but might nibble your hand and tell everyone not to touch her head or feet as she dosent like it but still dosent bite just gives a warning mouth at your hand so i know i can trust her with people and never let anyone hold her except her sitter


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

ive been reading this thread (and ignoring the arguing) and found it really interesting.
i do think that some research needs to be done as far as the spraying somebody thing goes.
a car driver can be fined now if he drives through a puddle and soaks somebody so im pretty sure that a person being sprayed in a public place by a skunk could have consequences, even if its only the cost of dry cleaning or the clothing being replaced if the smell wont come out.
i think a lot of people are going to be far more tolerant of exotic animal bites than they are of say a dog bite...its simply that most people view exotic pets as a higher risk where biting is concerned. and as there no strict set laws reguarding liability where exotic pets are concerned then if a skunk were to bite someone then i think the law goes into a very mixed grey area on what should happen.
so far most of the people ive talked to and those that ive followed on here that have pet skunks seem to be very responsible owners, but i fear that the pet trade will soon have many skunks available as they grow in popularity......i dont think this is a good thing at all.
when chipmunks first came widely available in the pet trade many people went out and got these cute little things and soon realised that they werent what they thought, they were quite able to bite and willing to do it if they felt like it and many animal sanctuaries were inundated with them. I can see this happening with skunks too, people buying them after seeing how cute they are and then finding out that some have different personalities and some bite and some are quicker to spray than others.
i think eventually somebody is going to need to set up a rescue for skunks.
whilst i think they are very sweet and adorable i KNOW they are not the pet for my household at all, and feel happier not having one than getting one and realise i dont have the time to look after it properly and then having to give it up.
good luck to you skunk keeping owners.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

:blush:Apologies again but it is a toss up between letting someone spoil the forum for others or adding to it by responding.

Anyway, I for one will not be taking my skunk out in public until these points are clarified.

Like Andy said earlier, if there were to be an 'incident' with spraying or even biting the press would be all over it. 

It is not worth the risk but there are probably exception, like carrying the skunk in your coat. Can't see much problem with that.

I always cringe at anything other than a dog being walked in public on a lead as I always think a strange yampy dog could run up and attack it! 

There has to be a much higher chance of a dog attacking a ferret/rat/skunk than another dog if they see those as prey animals.

Plus I do not have a dog so if my skunk were to be faced with one, I couldn't blame him for spraying it square in the face!


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

Im not apoligizing to what i said to anyone, other than the thread starter, sorry. I just feel i needed to defend myself, and will continue to do. ill say what i think and if you dont like it then i couldnt give a monkeys  

Id also like to know the laws on the points raised here, would be very intresting to know and find them out for when and if i eventually become a skunk owner, it would be extremely upsetting to have the animal confiscated for doing something natarul to it when it felt threatened.

Joe


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

farmercoope said:


> Im not apoligizing to what i said to anyone, other than the thread starter, sorry. I just feel i needed to defend myself, and will continue to do. ill say what i think and if you dont like it then i couldnt give a monkeys
> 
> Id also like to know the laws on the points raised here, would be very intresting to know and find them out for when and if i eventually become a skunk owner, it would be extremely upsetting to have the animal confiscated for doing something natarul to it when it felt threatened.
> 
> Joe


I think the laws would be differernt depending on which council you live under, dont forget the council have by laws for public places, nature walks etc.
We will end up owning skunks when the time is right for us, will i be walking it ............well im in 2 minds about that i know how easy it is to fall in love with them and i woulnt want to feel responsible for helping make them a disposable pet, but! on the other hand the more people that fall in love with them the less people there is against us keeping them as pets


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

i think it is going to be a grey area for a while but i think it mainly comes down to responsibility you are its owner you are responsible for it and i think at the moment what we do now will will have an affect on the laws that are to come i am not going to stop taking mine out as its something she enjoys and wouldn't be fair to stop her walks but i am always responsible if i see a dog coming i always pick her up and if someone wants to stroke her i always warn she might nibble and if a small kid wants to stroke her i hold her and let them only stroke her back i don't think we have anything to worry about as long as we are sensible


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for everybodys input.

I do believe that taking a Skunk out for a walk is not going to be as easy as people think. I know people do, but I do think as it becomes more common then accidents are going to happen.
It is when these accidents happen then we will truly see to what extent the law can / will dicate what we can do.
I do not think a skunk can be classed as a domesticated animal such as a dog, cat etc as people seem to compare them to. Due to this I believe that if for instance a skunk scented someone, I truly believe there will be consequences to pay. Not only for the individual but for all Skunk owners.
I believe there will already be legislation in place that applies to non native, non domesticated animals that can / will be enforced. As already mentioned I remember a thing with pot bellied pigs. I think you needed a licence to walk them and then it was only a set route you could take.

By the way I am quite probably wrong about Skunk walking, I'm usually wrong with everything else.:lol2:

I will mention again that I am not against people taking their Skunks for a walk. I truly believe in each to their own. It is just not for us. We feel there are to many risks to the Skunks and potenially to oher people for us. 

Thanks again for everones input, it certainly opened my eyes :whistling2:

Best wishes


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

Very shocked at the slagging Nerys has had on this thread frankly.

I guess I've missed a lot of history, but she has been amazing in all of my dealings with her, she mad my son the happiest child on the planet by letting him hold one of her skunks, and I want one of her next skunk babies.

I've been on, and am on, a lot of forums and have never seen anybody demonized in the way Nerys has been for no apparent reason.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

MrsP said:


> Very shocked at the slagging Nerys has had on this thread frankly.
> 
> I guess I've missed a lot of history, but she has been amazing in all of my dealings with her, she mad my son the happiest child on the planet by letting him hold one of her skunks, and I want one of her next skunk babies.
> 
> I've been on, and am on, a lot of forums and have never seen anybody demonized in the way Nerys has been for no apparent reason.


 
I can only apologise to you and others who were offended by my post. I do not wish to 'demonize' Nerys because I can see how many people on here adore her and you can't all be wrong! 

I only posted in response to what I thought were totally unacceptable and immature comments she made about two good people. I am afraid to say MrsP, many many people will have read that post and agreed with me wholeheartedly but people are too afraid to post because both Rory and Nerys ARE very well liked. 

It is not fair that Nerys or anybody should be allowed to push people away from this forum because they feel no-one will respond and they'll get away with it.

I am having to pm loulou and fixx for some top class information regarding 'skunks' I might add, which you and others are missing out on because they no longer post here much. 

If you read this thread back you will see that nothing personal was said and we were having an interesting discussion about rehome skunks until Nerys decided to flip out on fixx.

Apologies again and you can rest assured I will bite my tongue next time for the sake of keeping arguments off the forum.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Sorry changed my mind about posting.


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

changed your mind?


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Yeah thought it better in a pm, dont want to get caught in the middle. :lol2:


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