# Corn snake eggs too wet?



## las

Hi all,
I bought a new snake that layed eggs. 6 of those eggs are fertile and have been incubating for just over 2 weeks at 84-85. I bought a humidity guage which says between 70 and 80%.
One of the eggs has deflated like a rugby ball, so I increased the water in the vermiculite but it made no diference. It still says 80% but now I have condensation on the side wall of the tub and the eggs are wet to the touch. I thought that is too wet so have taken the lid off of the tub(not the incubator) to let it dry out a bit.
What do you more experianced corn snake breeders think, too wet or not?
Also why do you think the one egg has deflated like that?
Thanks


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## spirit975

What colour is the deflated egg? Is it nearer the top of the pile? If the eggs are wet to touch they are too wet and you risk mould growing or even the embryos drowning/suffocating. Have you got them covered with something? I find that no matter how damp the vermiculite the top eggs always deflate unless they're covered with something damp. I use a sheet of damp kitchen towel. : victory:


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## las

It is one of the top eggs. It is the same colour as the others. When i noticed the egg starting to deflate I put a damp tissue over it, but took it off again when it didn't seem to work (a day or two). I have also piled the vermiculite up over one side of that egg. 
Should I keep the lid off for now to let it all dry out a bit first. Then put tissue over again?
I am afraid that the other eggs are very full of water now. Maybe too bloated. Am I right to think this too can drown the embrio?


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## spirit975

I don't think the eggs can be too bloated as they only absorb what they need, however the embryo "breathes" through pores in the shell so if the egg is soaking wet there cannot be efficient gas exchange. How wet is the vermiculite? It only needs to be damp, so if you squeeze it it forms a clump but doesn't drip. If it's really wet i'd suggest you change it, or carefully remove the eggs while you squeeze the water out. Then just leave the eggs sitting in the vermiculite covered with a slightly damp piece of kitchen towel. I'd be tempted to only cover the deflated egg for now to let the others dry out.


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## cornmorphs

spirit975 said:


> What colour is the deflated egg? Is it nearer the top of the pile? If the eggs are wet to touch they are too wet and you risk mould growing or even the embryos drowning/suffocating. Have you got them covered with something? I find that no matter how damp the *vermiculite the top eggs always deflate unless they're covered with something damp*. I use a sheet of damp kitchen towel. : victory:


 
maybe thats why perlite works so well for me?.. i dont cover them, and they dont deflate.
weird


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## EdGeorge

I use vermiculite and moss, mine don't deflate either. I have my temps around 82, works ok for me.


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## las

Thanks spirit975,
I know that there was no water dripping from the vermiculite when I set it up but it did clump together. But like I said I have added to it when the egg deflated. I will have to check it and change it. 
Is that the only reason the eggs will deflate?


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## las

OK, I changed the vermicolite. It was too wet. So now it is on a perfect mixture. While I was there I candled the eggs and found no viens in one egg, 2 eggs with semi circles in (which I believe means the embrio has died) 1 with just a line in it (this is the deflated egg) and 2 with lots of viens. 
Has anyone got experiance with candling? What do you think?
They all still look white'ish and I will leave them all there untill they collaps and smell.
Have any of you had very slow to develop eggs or have mine died because of being too wet?


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## fuzzzzbuzzzz

las said:


> OK, I changed the vermicolite. It was too wet. So now it is on a perfect mixture. While I was there I candled the eggs and found no viens in one egg, 2 eggs with semi circles in (which I believe means the embrio has died) 1 with just a line in it (this is the deflated egg) and 2 with lots of viens.
> Has anyone got experiance with candling? What do you think?
> They all still look white'ish and I will leave them all there untill they collaps and smell.
> Have any of you had very slow to develop eggs or have mine died because of being too wet?


 A forum member possible killed 6 eggs by accidentely thinking they were dead. I would incubate them until you know for sure that are 100% dead.


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## las

Thanks fuzzzzbuzzzz, yes I will be keeping them untill I am positive they are dead. I hope the last 2 will be ok now, but I would think it is too late for the rest. I would still say that the eggs are too full though. This is my first time with snake eggs, but a have incubated duck eggs and have seen how the air space can fluctuate in them. I would think it is similar with snake eggs but don't know. Any idea?


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## spirit975

Corn eggs do "grow" as they incubate and absorb moisture...well mine do anyway :blush: So maybe this is why you're thinking they're too full? The ones with the veins are a promising sign but i would incubate all beyond their due date and just see how they go...unless of curse any go obviously bad.

Best of luck with them.


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## cornmorphs

I have had eggs in the past that have been full of water, they were the size and shape of golf balls.. very weird.
They were low low in the perlite with too much water, and on opening the eggs they had fully formed, fully coloured snakes... so they simply drowned.


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## las

One egg has started going cream now and it feels softer. It was one of the eggs with a ring in it when I candled it. The other one with a ring looks like it is starting to go off white too. 
The 2 eggs that still look and feel ok (one is the dented one) didn't have the ring in it, but instead looked like they haven't got viens in them. Well the deflated one had a pink line - as if it is just one thick vien. What do you all think of these two? I'm not sure. Do you think there is any chance of them developing from now on. By the way because I thought it was no good I did't try to wet the deflated egg any more and it has not changed at all, which I thought it would have if it was that dry. Is it possible that an egg this shape could go full term?
And finally the other 2 eggs seem fine, FEW!


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## paulh

I've had a lot of experience candling bird eggs and a little experience candling snake eggs.

I'm pretty pessimistic about all but the two eggs that you saw veins in. But never say die until an egg has turned green and hard.

I would not add water to the incubation medium at this time. I would sink the dented egg deeper in the medium. This puts more of the shell in contact with the moisture already in the medium.

Good luck.


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## las

paulh, thanks, yes I have put it in with vermiculite on it. I think the candleing is very useful for the eggs and as far as I can tell it seems to be very similar to bird eggs. I have more or less given up on the 4 but just wanted to check what people with more experiance thought.
If it hadn't been for the dented egg (which I really don't think is dehydrated now) I would not have increased the water and the others would probably have been ok. 
I must say I am suprised how little detail is available on the net for snake eggs compared to bird eggs. There are very few candleing video or photos at different stages all the way through incubation.
Thanks again.


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## radicaldave

I dont agree with candling. At the end of the day IMO egss get laid - transferred to incubator - left alone and not messed with for the full 55-60 days. The last lot i transferred to incubation are in three layers as there were so many the ones on the bottom i cant see much.. ones in middle and then a few on top of those. The top couple have indented so i threw in some spag moss over the top and then a single sheet of paper towel which is damp and stops the spag from drying out. I open once every few days to exchange air. I use vemiculite/spag moss and a big plastic celebrations choc box. The temp is constant 84oF Humidity should be enough to form water on the lid but not droplets. The learning curve is all about trial and error. If you dont have experiance then you shouldnt breed - no way - its the best way to learn although you should read up and take in as much info as possible first of course.. 

The worst thing you can do is keep messing them around. Just leave them alone and if they hatch its a bonus. Have seen some really bad looking eggs hatch in the past and to be fair i think alot of breeders are far to anal about temps and humidity.. eggs can take more of a beating than you might think.


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## las

Hello radicaldave,


I am obviously in the "trial and error" stage. And as you will have read on my original post I was thrown into this when I bought a snake which unexpectedly layed eggs. So no I did not breed her. But I do have experience of breeding a number of other animals and have done a lot of reading about breeding corn snakes. I do not MESS with the eggs as I can see them through the plastic container and incubator lid. That is how I noticed the dented egg and the excess water problem.
As for the candling I have used it many times while breeding other animals and find it a good way to check if you have a problem. I had a duckling once that grew well but did not hatch. I knew from candling that he was alive so after the others had hatched I helped him brake out. He was too week to do it himself, but now, after a little help he is a full grown duck with no problems. And in this case candling has definitely worked well - it was just that I was unsure if it would work the same in corn snakes. And oh look my experience is growing!!!
I think that I will not alter the water level of the vermiculite but instead cover with a damp tissue or use your idea of spag moss if I have any dehydration in future.


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## radicaldave

spag moss is actuallly a very useful tool. If your humidity is forming on the lid and threatening your eggs by dripping then put a light layer over the top of the eggs so it drips on moss not eggs - moisten it first or it will sponge up moisture. Most corn eggs get laid in stacks depsite offering my snakes large laying boxes. My top eggs always dry out spag moss definatly helps. 1-2 eggs always collapse and dent however these also always seem to hatch fine hehe..

If you do use spag moss just lift it up every week or so and shift it about so the eggs can get to breath,.


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## las

Thanks radicaldave. Luckily I only had condensation on the side of the tub, but that is very good to know in case I ever need it :2thumb:



One of the eggs I candled as dead is now smelling and has also deflated. I have separated it as luckily it is one of the separate eggs, but its still in the incubator.

Can anyone tell me, Do dead eggs, deflate, go hard, go mildew, smell or all four? Or is it a combination of but not necessarily all? How long dose it take? 

My other deflated egg has not altered but is attached to 3 other eggs. 2 of these are my good eggs. Will I have to separate them at some point. I don't think so, but just want to make sure I am doing my best for them.

Thanks


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## Madmonk

*Eggs*

Hi
I had some issues when using vermiculite for the first time...too moist etc.
Since using perlite as a medium, greater success has been achieved.I have also tried incubating on egg crate with a degree of success.
With the latter the eggs sit proud of the hatching medium but still get the moisture required.
Don't get too disheartened about losing some eggs. As pointed out by some more experienced members, its all a learning curve.
Most of us started at the bottom of that curve!!
Good luck with your eggs.


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## las

Thanks madmonk.

Now I have the moisture right it is all going much better. Well at least for the eggs that survived. I am just trying to make sure I do the best I can for the eggs that are left. Do you have any experience of eggs that do not survive?


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## Madmonk

*Eggs*

Yes I did have bad first time, 3 females laid, 32 eggs and only 17 hatched.
The vermiculite was too wet and the eggs moulded. But 3 years on, last year I had over 60 hatchlings.
This year I have turned to Royals. I have the honour of been mentored so to speak by some good guys on here, alan1,rubbleuk are just 2 of them, there are others with a vast amount of royal knowledge who have offered tips when I have been stumped or concerned. To list them all would take time.
As a collective they are all members of RFUK and are willing to help others.
That is the best part of belonging to this elite group. Im sure other Corn breeders will share their knowledge and passion of the subject.
Good luck with this clutch and future attempts.


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## las

Yes. I have seen lots of good advise on here and I think I will now wait until the dead eggs go mildew just to make sure they are really dead.
It seams like the best of us have to go through the wet substrate stage before we work out for ourself what is correct. Like you say I will know for next time. 
Thanks again all.


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## Woodeh87

*Eggs*

I had 8 eggs 7 that looked perfect and 1 that me and my friend both thought it would not hatch, waited and all 8 hatched


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## morphtastic

some eggs look fine when they are layed but don't develop. These ones do just deflate like rugby balls. I just had a girl lay 19 eggs, only 7 looked any good, after a week 3 of them have deflated and not developed any veins.


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