# Any one here know anything about.......



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Exporting snakes from Australia.....
I know that Australia does not allow exporting, but I wondered if anyone here had ever tried to set it up......


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

By the lack of answers, this seems like a grey subject....LOL


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

as far as i know its impossible! unless u own a well known zoo and hav a letter from the queen:lol2:


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## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

What about new guinea?


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

u could get away with that, u can still get wc ijs


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Exporting snakes from Australia.....
> I know that Australia does not allow exporting, but I wondered if anyone here had ever tried to set it up......


 
why would u even want to though when its not legal..

is it a specific species u are desperate for and if so why not try to find it by other means


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Exporting snakes from Australia.....
> *I know that Australia does not allow exporting*, but I wondered if anyone here had ever tried to set it up......


That'll be why no-one's tried to set it up then!

Try explaining that one to DEFRA/customs when the snakes arrive:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Not gonna happen mate, it took years for a select amount of tarantulas to be granted permission to be exported, no chance of anything like a snake etc being granted unless your a zoo with a vital need for the animal (breeding project of endangered sp etc).


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Cheers for the replies, though some of them sound like knee jerk reactions...LOL

I'm asking as a mate of mine runs his own export business from Auss.....
He's been over for Christmas, and we were discussing my snakes.... When he realised how much some snakes can fetch, he wondered if it was possible to set up an export of CB pets.....He's looking at the logistics of it at his end........ So I am looking at what problems there will be at our end.... I was hoping someone on here may have tried it, so could tell me of any pitfalls.....
Oh, and no where did I imply anything illegal would be taking place....As that would make it pointless.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Very few snakes can be kept as pets in Australia, there are strict laws about what pets normal people can keep - due to the cane toad problem, they will not risk the possible release/escape of non native animals in an already delicate ecosystem, as many non native species of reptile could thrive in Australia.

Even CB species of native animals which can be kept, cannot be exported. They are not going to start making exceptions now for someone who wants to make some money.


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

I know a few exports have come out of Oz in the last 20 years. That was how the first legal perenties and albino carpets got out. These exports were zone on a zoological permit and shipped to another zoological facility. The animals eventually bred and I believe its either 2nd or 3rd generation that are legally allowed back into the hobby. 

The problem is something like perenties are around the $25,000 from Oz and zoos typically do not have the funds to buy pairs in to breed to eventually sell on! The other problem is your normal joe blogs would rather see something like a komodo because of there size over just another lizard because lack of knowledge doesn’t tell them its one of the most desired varanus around.

To be honest though there are no Morelia and in fact very few snakes species that cannot be obtained here so it would make no sense to import for a zoo as they can be obtained with relative ease from other zoos or hobbyists.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Athravan said:


> Very few snakes can be kept as pets in Australia, there are strict laws about what pets normal people can keep - due to the cane toad problem, they will not risk the possible release/escape of non native animals in an already delicate ecosystem, as many non native species of reptile could thrive in Australia.
> 
> Even CB species of native animals which can be kept, cannot be exported. They are not going to start making exceptions now for someone who wants to make some money.


I understand the non-native/Cane toad/rabbit scenario......
But people can export pets when the emigrate.... Dogs/cats etc.
We were wondering how far the *pet* rule can be bent.......
As of now it's a non-starter, but, with work at both ends, who knows?
Thats why I posted on here, I figured someone might know and not just recite what we've been led to believe.....
As stated some things have come out of Oz......
And looking at Aussie carpet sites, they have a very nice selection of animals and they are cheaper than here for the equivalent animal.....


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't know about the rules for pets, but I do know that if you claimed it was a pet, and were found to be exporting for a business, there would surely be even heavier fines. As far as I'm aware, no private business enterprise has ever been allowed to export since the ban. If you're looking at it purely from a export to make money scenario, I just can't see it happening.

If perhaps you were looking at exporting for a breeding programme of your own, and obtained a zoo license, it might be more viable?


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Athravan said:


> I don't know about the rules for pets, but I do know that if you claimed it was a pet, and were found to be exporting for a business, there would surely be even heavier fines. As far as I'm aware, no private business enterprise has ever been allowed to export since the ban. If you're looking at it purely from a export to make money scenario, I just can't see it happening.
> 
> If perhaps you were looking at exporting for a breeding programme of your own, and obtained a zoo license, it might be more viable?


Now your thinking outside of the box....LOL
No where have I mentioned money making:whistling2:

ATM I am exploring all avenues, but the pet /emigration is the strongest....

Now to find an Aussie that wants to emigrate and bring his collection of Morelia with him....:2thumb:


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Now your thinking outside of the box....LOL
> No where have I mentioned money making:whistling2:
> 
> ATM I am exploring all avenues, but the pet /emigration is the strongest....
> ...


as far as i know thats a big no no aswell!


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Mr Man said:


> as far as i know thats a big no no aswell!


Why. If people can bring pets with them....(I don't know if snakes are seen as pets though)


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

This company claims to be Australias largest reptile dealer

Ultimate Reptile Suppliers

On their permit page they simply say they cannot export overseas full stop. I would think, if there was a service to be offered exporting CB pets, someone would already be doing it.

You have to get an import and export permit in AU just to move a reptile from one state to the other! 

But it might be worth contacting them, as I would assume they will be intimate with all Australias reptile laws.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Athravan said:


> This company claims to be Australias largest reptile dealer
> 
> Ultimate Reptile Suppliers
> 
> ...


Cheers for that.... I'll get my mate onto them as soon as he lands Oz side....
At least it's a start...LOL
EDIT.....
After reading the first few lines it seems the law could be changing/change......

Licences and Permits 
It is illegal to remove reptiles from the wild in Australia, by doing so it may result in a Hefty Fine and Imprisonment!
Unfortunately we are prohibited by law from Importing and Exporting Reptiles Overseas!
Hopefully regulations will change for the Import and Export of Australian Reptiles, if there are enough complaints made to Environment Australia, their could be some changes made. All complaints are to be made to ************* All complaints are appreciated.


And I'm already on the case... Place your orders please....LOL


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

the only way to get them out is to smuggle them out. 

(get your mate to fill his case when he comes over next:whistling2


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

More information taken from World Congress of Herpetology



> Prior to the congress Australian authorities received 12 applications from overseas based herpetologists to export reptiles from Australia for scientific purposes. All 12 were rejected. The reason was simple, 'Australia won't allow the export of wildlife for any reason'


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

they won't let us hav their snakes but gave us jason donovan. talk about rubbing salt in a wound:bash:


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

I dont think they're going to change it anytime soon and as rubbish as it appears to us i think its totally valid, their biodiversity, their rules. They've seen the mistake that letting alien species in can cause and fair play on banning it all, their indiginous marsupial biodiversity is incredibly specialist and cant compete with the generalist mammal species. Have you seen how hard it is for a person to emigrate there? They're laws are so tight, the starter book alone is well over 500 pages. 

It all seems a great idea but what are you really after? Your coming across incredibly flipant about something which is fundamentally illegal. You've said you dont want money, so all you want is their snakes? You want to set an entire export business, which im assuming will cost money to export pets for you? It doesnt add up. And it wont to the Australian authorities either.

Its all coming across very pie in the sky.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Zak said:


> I dont think they're going to change it anytime soon and as rubbish as it appears to us i think its totally valid, their biodiversity, their rules. *They've seen the mistake that letting alien species in can cause and fair play on banning it all, their indiginous marsupial biodiversity is incredibly specialist and cant compete with the generalist mammal species.* Have you seen how hard it is for a person to emigrate there? They're laws are so tight, the starter book alone is well over 500 pages.
> 
> It all seems a great idea but what are you really after? Your coming across incredibly flipant about something which is fundamentally illegal. You've said you dont want money, so all you want is their snakes? You want to set an entire export business, which im assuming will cost money to export pets for you? It doesnt add up. And it wont to the Australian authorities either.
> 
> Its all coming across very pie in the sky.


It is pie in the sky at the moment, and could always be...

I understand the biodiversity in Oz, but I never said I was exporting to them. So it was pointless telling me about their animals...
As for setting up an export business... My mate owns one... He exports from and to Australia and from Indonesia.... It's car parts and furniture at the moment.....
As for being illegal..... Smuggling them is illegal... Enquiring about export is legitimate....
As for not wanting money....... Thats the last thing to worry about at this stage of the game..


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## Reptacular Ltd (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi

I had this question raised at a recent meeting, and apparently, please correct me if i am wrong as its only what i got told that certain parts of Australia export certain reps to Belgium. And from there you would be able to import them into the UK.

How true this is i have not got a clue, and would not try it, but can anyone confirm this is true/false.

Thanks.


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

sparkle said:


> why would u even want to though when its not legal..
> 
> is it a specific species u are desperate for and if so why not try to find it by other means


The morelia market is limited if someone could get new bloodlines in it would be great,
as far as getting animals else where, show me where there are hypo bredlis. :crazy:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SNAKEWISPERA said:


> The morelia market is limited if someone could get new bloodlines in it would be great,
> as far as getting animals else where, show me where there are hypo bredlis. :crazy:


One has recently just sold in the US for a mind boggling amount, they are around if you have the right contacts plus an understanding bank manager.


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

Young_Gun said:


> One has recently just sold in the US for a mind boggling amount, they are around if you have the right contacts plus an understanding bank manager.


As above, i was offered a pair in europe for 25,000 a peice. They command silly prices and people pay them. The first white retic went over to china for over a million. There is money in this buisness and anyone telling you there isnt is talking :censor:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Tom_b said:


> As above, i was offered a pair in europe for 25,000 a peice. They command silly prices and people pay them. The first white retic went over to china for over a million. There is money in this buisness and anyone telling you there isnt is talking :censor:


You have to be well placed to make the big money though, either be the first to have a particular morph/locale and try to control the market on it, but yes, if you buy/trade clever then you can make money at it.

Plenty of people get into it expecting a great return and it just doesn't happen, look at the amount of Bumble's produced in 08, dread to think of how many are going to be around in 09.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Exporting snakes from Australia.....
> I know that Australia does not allow exporting, but I wondered if anyone here had ever tried to set it up......


It appears to be "possible", given that there were WC Australian elapids at the Houten show last October......hmmmm....methinks you're after a _kinghorni_?


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

The thing is I've seen them in Australia, for sale at around £300..... Thats a lot less than 25.000.......


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> The thing is I've seen them in Australia, for sale at around £300..... Thats a lot less than 25.000.......


Supply and demand mate.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> It appears to be "possible", given that there were WC Australian elapids at the Houten show last October......hmmmm....methinks you're after a _kinghorni_?


I just like trying to bend rules...LOL
If I'm told it can't be done, I have to try to prove it to myself.....
Sometimes people give up just because of nay sayers.....
Maybe it will never happen, but I got to try to find out.....LOL
ps... Scrubs are a bit big and bitey for me....:whistling2:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> I just like trying to bend rules...LOL
> If I'm told it can't be done, I have to try to prove it to myself.....
> Sometimes people give up just because of nay sayers.....
> Maybe it will never happen, but I got to try to find out.....LOL
> ps... Scrubs are a bit big and bitey for me....:whistling2:


Your not going to manage a legal export from Australia, its fact not due to nay sayers.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> Supply and demand mate.


Exactly..... They have the supply without the demand.....


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> I just like trying to bend rules...LOL
> If I'm told it can't be done, I have to try to prove it to myself.....
> Sometimes people give up just because of nay sayers.....
> Maybe it will never happen, but I got to try to find out.....LOL
> ps... Scrubs are a bit big and bitey for me....:whistling2:


I bet you cant jump out a ten storey bulding and fly whilst only wearing your boxers then land safely on the hard concrete slabs below....

:whistling2::lol2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

sparkle said:


> I bet you cant jump out a ten storey bulding and fly whilst only wearing your boxers then land safely on the hard concrete slabs below....
> 
> :whistling2::lol2:


And what point are you trying to make.....

Oh I see, your trying to be clever.....
FAILED:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

sparkle said:


> I bet you cant jump out a ten storey bulding and fly whilst only wearing your boxers then land safely on the hard concrete slabs below....
> 
> :whistling2::lol2:


Bet you can't either, please feel free to try though :flrt:


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> Bet you can't either, please feel free to try though :flrt:


 
For you Roy anything.. as always


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> And what point are you trying to make.....
> 
> Oh I see, your trying to be clever.....
> FAILED:Na_Na_Na_Na:


 
And youre trying to bend rules why??

and pretending it wouldnt be a business.. AHEM


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> Bet you can't either, please feel free to try though :flrt:


 Lets get things straight..... I DO understand the laws of gravity.....
It's Australian export rules I was asking about......


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

sparkle said:


> For you Roy anything.. as always


Cheers dears :2thumb:




SW-morelia said:


> Lets get things straight..... I DO understand the laws of gravity.....
> It's Australian export rules I was asking about......


Go back and read it, the post wasn't aimed at you.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Let's keep it strictly to discussion of Australian export law please, and lose the personal bickering.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

sparkle said:


> And youre trying to bend rules why??
> 
> and pretending it wouldnt be a business.. AHEM


I'll try and use easier terminology for you......
Carpets are cheap in Oz...
Much cheaper than anywhere else....
I keep Morelia....
I would like new blood to work with......
Getting the picture....
If they were to breed, yes I may sell some. But thats not a priority right now... 
Working out how to get them is......


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> I'll try and use easier terminology for you......
> Carpets are cheap in Oz...
> Much cheaper than anywhere else....
> I keep Morelia....
> ...


Without a zoo license you won't get them legally exported from the country, even then it won't be easy.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> Without a zoo license you won't get them legally exported from the country, even then it won't be easy.


Cheers Roy......
But how do you know these things......


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Cheers Roy......
> But how do you know these things......


I've paid attention to the info and links posted in this thread, plus I know what a friend of mine had to go through to legally export a small number of spiders, plus I know a handful of hobbyists and breeders who have tried to export and all been refused.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

So you know someone who has successfully imported from Oz....
That proves it's possible (note I said possible, not easy)
That gives me confidence that I'm not totally wasting my time, pursuing this.


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> So you know someone who has successfully imported from Oz....
> That proves it's possible (note I said possible, not easy)
> That gives me confidence that I'm not totally wasting my time, pursuing this.


You don't read what people say to you obviously, that was for SPIDERS (Arachnids) not a reptilian.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I do read everything... 
So far someone has seen wild caught elapids for sale in Europe...
You know someone who managed to export/import....
The Oz shippers are saying 'lobby our authorities'....
And most are reciting what they've been told....
Your mate may have done spiders,but who's to say it won't work with snakes....Unless you ask...


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

I have discussed the export of Australian species with both Australian dealers & scientists and believe me there is no way round it for you.

The Australian dealers give a straight no under any circumstances. As you are saying about exporting them as pets like cats & dogs - reptiles & amphibians are not classed as domesticated and as such can not be exported as pets.

An Australian scientist has told me that it is possible to get imports/exports but only for legit zoological or scientific purposes.
If you can prove it's for a legit zoological / scientific purpose then the export process involves a lengthy consultation process where you are required to submit information on; the background of you & your establishment, what research you are doing and why, why you can't use a different species, why you can't get the animals elsewhere (price isn't a reason), how their removal from Australia will impact the wild populations, & most importantly what's in it for the Australian Government.

Obviously this consultation process will cost you money and if you get a NO (which you will) you won't be seeing any of that money again.


As for the wild caught Australian stuff being offered in Europe, I would pressume it's coming via Indonesia I get lists from an Indonesian exporter which from time to time have contained species of Amphibian found only in Australia, these are surely smuggled via one of the offshore islands.
I also know that people have posted animals out of Australia via standard mail but if anyone were caught smuggling animals out of Australia via these channels it would I'm sure land the buyer in as much trouble as the supplier.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

pollywog said:


> I have discussed the export of Australian species with both Australian dealers & scientists and believe me there is no way round it for you.
> 
> The Australian dealers give a straight no under any circumstances. As you are saying about exporting them as pets like cats & dogs - reptiles & amphibians are not classed as domesticated and as such can not be exported as pets.
> 
> ...


Excellent answer.... Why didn't you get on earlier.....:lol2:
So Indonesia is the way forward, is it....:whistling2:


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

> Excellent answer.... Why didn't you get on earlier.....:lol2:
> So Indonesia is the way forward, is it....:whistling2:


Indonesia is not the way forward for acquiring Australian animals as that would be encouraging the smuggling would it :naughty:


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

pollywog said:


> Indonesia is not the way forward for acquiring Australian animals as that would be encouraging the smuggling would it :naughty:


 
frankly it doesnt seem to matter though to this person as long as he can do it.. legality isnt what he cares about that is blatantly obvious..

encourage breaking the law.. smuggle.. whatever.. just as long as he gets what he wants

hey ho.. 

spose there is always this side of reptile keeping and buying.. some will risk it and not care.. others wont..


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

pollywog said:


> Indonesia is not the way forward for acquiring Australian animals as that would be encouraging the smuggling would it :naughty:


It was a joke... I already said earlier that smuggling was not the way forward for me.. Thats why I added an emotion to try and lighten it.....




sparkle said:


> frankly it doesnt seem to matter though to this person as long as he can do it.. legality isnt what he cares about that is blatantly obvious..
> 
> encourage breaking the law.. smuggle.. whatever.. just as long as he gets what he wants
> 
> ...


You, love, are getting right on my bloody nerves...If I were to consider breaking the law, do you really think I would post it on the internet, you moron. You've added sod all to this discussion, except flying in boxer shorts....
You go back to you eye colour thread and I'll chat with the adults on here....


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

hope u ain't refering to me as an adult:lol2: (body yes mind no!)


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Me thinks this thread should be locked, Pollywog has supplied the answer.


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

No maybe someone has more input.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Seems that Australia is going to reconsider it's stance on how things are..
Strange how things can alter in just over a year
.
.
.
.
.
.

    

*Pet market tipped to save endangered wildlife*

By Ian Walker
Updated Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:30am AEST 
   Native pets: marsupials like the quoll could be kept in people's homes (Quoll Seekers Network)


Australia's wildlife is becoming extinct faster than had been expected, and there is criticism that the old way, "lock it up" conservation, is not working.
Native animals are no longer safe in the bush; a deadly onslaught of ferals - foxes, goats, pigs, cats, canetoads and exotic weeds - are out-gunning native species.
Now, Australia may trial a new paradigm - market forces - as a way to combat extinction.
A soon-to-be-released rural industry report suggests giving endangered species like the eastern quoll (or marsupial native cat), hopping mice and sugar gliders an economic value, in order to save them.
Ideas being floated are that people be encouraged to keep the native creatures as pets, rather than cats or dogs, or that Australians can trade in them, have many more *backyard captive breeding programs that earn an income and even export them.*
In the United States, Australian sugar gliders are captive bred and marketed as "pocket pets". One entrepreneur alone sells 20,000 sugar gliders each year.
The Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation has completed a feasibility study into the pros and cons of encouraging people to have native mammals as pets, the sale of which might fund captive breeding programs to help future re-release of some species in the wild.
One of the report's investigators, Rosie Cooney, says having more native mammals as pets will raise their profile and make sure more people care about their plight in the wild.
"The vast majority of Australians know very little about the vast majority of our species, so there's no possible way they can value them," she said.
"The better we know our species, the more chance we've got that people are going to care about their long-term conservation."
It is a red hot debate and there are many complex problems: one is the "cuteness factor". Many people are only likely to be interested in the pretty new pets.
Another is whether a selective breeding program should be allowed, so that the antisocial aspects of some native animals are bred out, to make them more acceptable as domestic additions to our homes.
_You can hear the full story on Background Briefing, after the 9:00am Sunday news on Radio National - or find the audio podcast on the Background Briefing website._


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## purpleskyes (Oct 15, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Seems that Australia is going to reconsider it's stance on how things are..
> Strange how things can alter in just over a year
> .
> .
> ...


 
It only mentions mammals and are the carpets your after endangered?


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