# Upside down roaches



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

My dubia colony that I have invested well over £350+ on is near the brink of extinction- why? I don't know.

All the time I find roaches on their backs kicking slowly- then when I flip them over they stand still or aimlessly move about- it's like every single roach in my colony has had it antennas cut off (that's obviously not the case) adult females are the main guilty party.

Shall I kill this colony off or is there an alternative?


----------



## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

£350?!? christ.

how are you keeping them?


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

ConnorTrussell said:


> My dubia colony that I have invested well over £350+ on is near the brink of extinction- why? I don't know.
> 
> All the time I find roaches on their backs kicking slowly- then when I flip them over they stand still or aimlessly move about- it's like every single roach in my colony has had it antennas cut off (that's obviously not the case) adult females are the main guilty party.
> 
> Shall I kill this colony off or is there an alternative?


Step by step give us an idea on how you keep them, what do you feed them on, how do you house them? Are they all the same roach definitely?


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

SilverSky said:


> £350?!? christ.
> 
> how are you keeping them?


The colony is about 2 years old, keeping bloodlines fresh is darn expensive.


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

liam peel said:


> Step by step give us an idea on how you keep them, what do you feed them on, how do you house them? Are they all the same roach definitely?


I keep them in a 110 litre box, extremely big for a plastic tub, I keep only half the lid on. Heatmat below- fresh fruit, ground up cat biscuits, cereals, fish foods etc. they are all dubia without a doubt


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

This is hard to explain- but imagine you're laying on your back, you then get an electric shock your the nerves in your arms and legs and they twitch- that's what's happening.

I'm not feeding any of these roaches to my animals btw nd my backup Lobster colony is showing it's worth.

Any ideas?

Thanks


----------



## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

cut out the cat food (not saying its bad it just might be a bad brand) feed just fresh fruit and veg small amounts daily just enough for what they eat.

also is your heat mat inside or out and what temps are you getting inside the colony.

could you post a pick so we can help.


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

mr stroudy said:


> cut out the cat food (not saying its bad it just might be a bad brand) feed just fresh fruit and veg small amounts daily just enough for what they eat.
> 
> also is your heat mat inside or out and what temps are you getting inside the colony.
> 
> could you post a pick so we can help.


Okay I'll try no cat food. They go absolutely bananas for fish food though.

My heat mat is outside and I'm getting about 33 near the bottom, 21 on top

I can't post a picture as I've never been able to do it from my phone, but just imagine a standard set-up. Plastic tub, egg crates, heat mat, feeding area

I don't think this has anything to do with my set up to be honest- I believe it's some sort of parasite or illness or something along those terms.

Any further help from anyone would be greatly appreciated- I'm at the verge of burning this colony to stop my lobsters, Turks and discoids becoming affected


----------



## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

ok i have pm'd a guy that might shed some light although we normally have very different views lol but we both have good success.

try to feed all natural foods and keep an eye on humidity make sure its not gathering condensation. leave out fish food cat/dog food and stuff like that for now.

i know this sound skank but scoop out there poo and inspect it very close for mites


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

mr stroudy said:


> ok i have pm'd a guy that might shed some light although we normally have very different views lol but we both have good success.
> 
> try to feed all natural foods and keep an eye on humidity make sure its not gathering condensation. leave out fish food cat/dog food and stuff like that for now.
> 
> i know this sound skank but scoop out there poo and inspect it very close for mites


I keep my roaches dry, and this has been going on for about 3 weeks and I've cleaned them out numerous times- it's extremely weird for me as this was a huge colony

Note: I am actually finding regular dead ones. Sometimes the ones that are on their back twitching will just turn themselves back over and come back around, but if I turn them over they continue to twitch on their front. It's like they're asleep in a deep nightmare (I know that's not feasible at all before anyone says something)


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

and if this doesn't work out will anybody be able to sell me another colony or swap for a different species or part exchange

Thanks


----------



## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

ConnorTrussell said:


> and if this doesn't work out will anybody be able to sell me another colony or swap for a different species or part exchange
> 
> Thanks


i can sell roaches have a look in the classified section but i would try and save it as it sounds like a lot of roaches

but wait hopefully someone else may have advice


----------



## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

Is there any mold on their tub? Mold can cause strange behaviours like this.


----------



## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

The way the roaches are acting, it sounds alot like pesticide poisoning, either from the environment or the food. This is exactly how poisoned insects behave before dying. Any possibility the house could be sprayed with fly spray, or flea spray for dogs/cats ? Its not impossible if you have a neighbour that has a property connected to yours they could have had the house sprayed. This might have happened if they found one of your escaped roaches, and thought they had an infection of the pest types !

Maybe dubia are more sensitive to pesticides than the other roaches you have. 

As Mr Stroudy suggested, I would certainly just stick to fruit/veg for a while and reduce the protein levels of the food you are using to see if this helps. 

Dubia are really easy to breed, and there must be a very serious reason for your failure. You could buy another small group of dubia, and keep them seperate to your main colony, and see if they get sick kept in the same environment and with the same food. Then you will know if you have an infected colony or not, though I have never heard of such a thing. 

Its odd because a few months ago I was arguing that I thought it was risky to regularly introduce new blood into colonies in case of introducing such diseases. It was said I was being silly dubia never get sick, but there are and have been nasty diseases amongst three of the four crickets used in the UK, and with Morio worms too last year. So it is quite likely a disease could form in this species in the future.


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> The way the roaches are acting, it sounds alot like pesticide poisoning, either from the environment or the food. This is exactly how poisoned insects behave before dying. Any possibility the house could be sprayed with fly spray, or flea spray for dogs/cats ? Its not impossible if you have a neighbour that has a property connected to yours they could have had the house sprayed. This might have happened if they found one of your escaped roaches, and thought they had an infection of the pest types !
> 
> Maybe dubia are more sensitive to pesticides than the other roaches you have.
> 
> ...


My cats have a flea thing we put on the back of their necks- "frontline" I believe. The youngest cat does hang around the roach tubs a fair bit.
My house is semi detached, but my roaches are as far away from them as possible. Plus I still have a whole colony of lobsters kicking and a tarantula still going. It's odd because 70% of the time it's adult females - a real blow for me when they die.
It's very disappointing for me because of the time effort and money I've involved in this for this to happen and my colony left with the bare minimum. 
I'll give these a month or so to see what's left of them and eventually I'll buy a smallish colony for £50 odd quid of someone on here and turn to my lobsters for a while.


----------



## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

Are the youngsters dying as well? If not it could be that the adults are dying of old age especially if you never feed off any females.


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

peterwilkes said:


> Are the youngsters dying as well? If not it could be that the adults are dying of old age especially if you never feed off any females.


Yeah the nymphs are doing the same thing


----------



## dociledragons (Dec 30, 2013)

I currently have a few thousand Dubias. I feed V&F once a week, only. I used to feed them vegies 2-3 times a week but, discovered high dead loss. Roaches will eat the veggies first even though they need protien. They are dumb that way. I feed mine the grounded rodent pellets. I've found some all natual cat food works good too. Make sure you have 50% humidity and 80 degree ambient temperature with a 100 degree hotspot and water gels work best.


----------



## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

ConnorTrussell said:


> My cats have a flea thing we put on the back of their necks- "frontline" I believe. The youngest cat does hang around the roach tubs a fair bit.
> My house is semi detached, but my roaches are as far away from them as possible. Plus I still have a whole colony of lobsters kicking and a tarantula still going. It's odd because 70% of the time it's adult females - a real blow for me when they die.
> It's very disappointing for me because of the time effort and money I've involved in this for this to happen and my colony left with the bare minimum.
> I'll give these a month or so to see what's left of them and eventually I'll buy a smallish colony for £50 odd quid of someone on here and turn to my lobsters for a while.


I have four dogs with collars like the ones you describe. My roaches are fine, but they generally do not go into the room with the roaches. If the cat were say to sleep on top of a tub of roaches, I could imagine that _might _be a serious problem. I guess it might be quite a nice warm place to hang out


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> I have four dogs with collars like the ones you describe. My roaches are fine, but they generally do not go into the room with the roaches. If the cat were say to sleep on top of a tub of roaches, I could imagine that _might _be a serious problem. I guess it might be quite a nice warm place to hang out


It's not a collar, it's like a drip thing you put on the back of his neck every 2 months- and he does get on the tub fairly often. He also gets in my lidless lobster tub though- and they're the healthiest roaches I've ever seen.

I've recently lost a leopard gecko to unknown reasons though, if that helps anyone help me.


----------



## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Sorry, I really thought I read you said you had collars. Anyhow, basically i would have thought its the same sort of thing. Maybe Dubia are more sensitive to insecticides. Maybe you have a colony with some sort of infection. 

I don't believe its a good idea to keep the floor 100% frass free. Mine always have a centimetre or more of frass on the bottom of the tub. It might be that if they are falling onto there backs onto smooth plastic, and they are simply having problems getting the right way up. Females (without wings and heavier) might be more prone to this than males. Do you clean the cage out very frequently ?


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> Sorry, I really thought I read you said you had collars. Anyhow, basically i would have thought its the same sort of thing. Maybe Dubia are more sensitive to insecticides. Maybe you have a colony with some sort of infection.
> 
> I don't believe its a good idea to keep the floor 100% frass free. Mine always have a centimetre or more of frass on the bottom of the tub. It might be that if they are falling onto there backs onto smooth plastic, and they are simply having problems getting the right way up. Females (without wings and heavier) might be more prone to this than males. Do you clean the cage out very frequently ?


I clean the tub out as soon as I realise some smell- normally 8 weeks or so at a time. 
I'm finding them on their back slap bang where there's no where to fall over though, like they're on their backs in the middle of the tub nowhere near egg crates. I'll add some more off the cardboard egg crates you find in cricket tubs around the tub. I personally think I have some sort of infection or parasites- nothing I can do about that though


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

Got some new roaches today. 40 XL nymphs for £6- really don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of money so gonna grow these on and keep adding nymphs when I have adults.

Anyone think it's worth trying to pick out the "healthy" ones from my old tub- or just freeze and burn the lot?


----------



## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

I would just keep going with them but keep well away from your new lot. Don't mix them.


----------



## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

I don't know what it is but with my colony the problems I've had have been caused by too much humidity, either because I restricted airflow with the lid or there was too much wet food, fruit ect ect too often. I use fruit and economy dog biscuits from sainsburys twice a week.


----------



## cjherp (May 14, 2012)

*How's Progress?*

Just read through this thread and thought I'd add my experiences see if it opens any new thoughts.

I would be most inclined to agree with Dragon Farm and Stroudy on the idea of potential poisoning. 
Other than the possibility of the cat and it's flea drops (which I assume has been something that's been consistant throughout your roach colonies life) could you have done something differently recently? My theory would be most likely a change of food... I know for a fact I fed mine a couple of years ago on some of the 'fresh salad mix' you get in packets from the supermarkets. Even though i washed it thouroughly I suspect it had been grown using pesticides or something of that sort as withing the next 36 hours I lost a couple hundred roaches. I stopped with that bag of greens and didn't feed them anything at all for around 5 days (theory being the damage had been done, so just leave them and see how many die off, the unaffected should manage a few days of starvation and clear their systems) This led to a couple more dozen dying and then I did one big clean out, new egg crates, full disinfect of their rub and put in the survivors and I didn't loose anymore at all after that. If I hadn't have removed everything and changed back to 'trusted' 'plain' food I suspect my colony would have slowly continued to decline in the way you are describing. Their behavour was very similar to your description.

Hope this helps mate

CJ


----------

