# Bringing Mammals Back From Hamm-- what can and can't you bring?



## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

Bringing Mammals Back From Hamm-- what can and can't you bring? 



It's been a few years since I was last at hamm, so I wanted to check how the law / cites/ defra stands for bringing mammals back from Germany to the UK


When I last went, you couldn't bring any mammals in without quarantining, that were 'rabies susceptible', so foxes, hedgehogs etc.


I also know now there's a restriction on things like coatis, raccoons etc in the UK.


So what mammals CAN be brought from Hamm, without quarantine?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

We're going to stay with our son in Florida for a couple of weeks soon .. 

His lakeside bungalow is surrounded by snakes , lizards, turtles , armadillos , alligators and brown bears .. luckily we all love wildlife 

It's soooooo tempting though when I find baby corns and kings and minuscule lizards. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

GothGirl said:


> Bringing Mammals Back From Hamm-- what can and can't you bring?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your best option is to contact DEFRA, or the Animal Reception Centre at Heathrow. 
They will be best placed to answer your question.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

Only rodents from within the EU can be bought into the UK without rabies quarantine 
all other mammals require quarantine up to 6 months though this will depend on origin , The Origin of your intended import determines the quarantine period, as per application , so no more standard 6 month wait, but can be for example 4 month quarantine, though no more than 6 month max !!:2thumb:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> Only rodents from within the EU can be bought into the UK without rabies quarantine
> all other mammals require quarantine up to 6 months though this will depend on origin , The Origin of your intended import determines the quarantine period, as per application , so no more standard 6 month wait, but can be for example 4 month quarantine, though no more than 6 month max !!:2thumb:


Thats not entirely true. For dogs cats and bizarrely ferrets provided they have a pet passport or veterinary certificate and have had a rabies vaccine, microchipped and for dogs treated for tapeworm, there is no quarantine. 
https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad has the current requirements.
As I said, a call to the ARC will get the answers you need.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

Yes that is correct lol I forgot to mention mammals classified by APHA as pets will require a PET PASSPORT :bash: If not deemed as a PET you will need to apply for a rabies import RM1 application form, on that form it will ask the Origin of the intended species you wish to import, Name of seller, address etc of seller.
You will also need to state the quarantine facility name address etc which is also licence via APHA. If you intend to collect your mammal from Europe and entering into the UK {or traveling through the UK} you will also require a rabies carry licence {APHA}. or you can employ an animal carry agent to take to the quarantine facility. If you have all of the above licences it may take APHA a few weeks to process your application or longer !!!. Also if bringing in CITES animals make sure you have the A10'S. :2thumb:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> Yes that is correct lol I forgot to mention mammals classified by APHA as pets will require a PET PASSPORT :bash: If not deemed as a PET you will need to apply for a rabies import RM1 application form, on that form it will ask the Origin of the intended species you wish to import, Name of seller, address etc of seller.
> You will also need to state the quarantine facility name address etc which is also licence via APHA. If you intend to collect your mammal from Europe and entering into the UK {or traveling through the UK} you will also require a rabies carry licence {APHA}. or you can employ an animal carry agent to take to the quarantine facility. If you have all of the above licences it may take APHA a few weeks to process your application or longer !!!. Also if bringing in CITES animals make sure you have the A10'S. :2thumb:


An A10 is only applicable for Appendix I/Annex A species and only if you are using the specimen for a commercial purpose. You do not need an A10 to own the specimen.
However after March 29 you will need to obtain an import permit from APHA to bring in any CITES Annex A, B, or C species, and an export permit from the EU country you are exiting from.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

CITES A10 will be required if you are purchasing the animal, if not purchasing then is best to have a statement proof etc, you will need a specific CITES A10 regardless :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> CITES A10 will be required if you are purchasing the animal, if not purchasing then is best to have a statement proof etc, you will need a specific CITES A10 regardless :Na_Na_Na_Na:


No. 
The SELLER requires the A10.
Once purchased, unless it is then being used for a further commercial gain, a new A10 is not needed. And again, ONLY for Annex A/Appendix I species. An A10 is not required to keep such a species. Nor is it an import permit. Those are separate. 
And then there are further issues. 
You need to check the A10. Is it transaction or specimen specific? If it is the latter then the certificate stays with the specimen. If it is the former then the certificate stays with the seller. There is no requirement for requirement to hand it to the buyer. Why? Because it was issued for that one transaction ie the sale. It is an offer nce, certainly in the UK, to copy an A10. So the seller cannot photocopy the permit, hand that to the buyer, and keep the original.
Then there is microchipping. An A10 is only valid if the specimen it relates to is uniquely marked. This generally means a microchip for living specimens. The microchip number must be on the A10"otherwise its invalid, unless in certain cases when a vet can deem it too small to be chipped.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

NO 
All CITES annex A REQUIRE the original A10 regardless of use especially when importing, a copy A10 is not accepted. Post BREXIT CITES import certs may be needed The thread started animals from Hamm so i guess the person is intending to purchase !! It is very rare for for breeders of exotic mammals to just gift them away! I'm sure this would be very frown upon and investigated.:whistling2:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> NO
> All CITES annex A REQUIRE the original A10 regardless of use especially when importing, a copy A10 is not accepted. Post BREXIT CITES import certs may be needed The thread started animals from Hamm so i guess the person is intending to purchase !! It is very rare for for breeders of exotic mammals to just gift them away! I'm sure this would be very frown upon and investigated.:whistling2:


An A10 is a specific document permitting COMMERCIAL Use. If you own the specimen, you don't need an A10 to keep it. So you don't need an A10 to import.
You do, however, require an import permit. This is NOT an A10.
Post Brexit you WILL be required to have an import permit. 
The reason for this is that within the EU, thanks to borderless trade, once in the EU permits are not required for any internal movements. 
When we leave the EU we will be a CITES party in our own right, so will therefore require an import permit. The EU stepped up the requirements for CITES due to high levels of corruption in many countries that commonly export CITES species. This means that you need an export permit from the EU as well. For imports into the EU, as well as an export permit from the sending country (this being all that is required for a CITES party), you also need an import permit.
The A10 is a piece of EU law via an EU Regulation from 1998.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

NO 
You still require proof of Origin!! If you have and own both parents and do not display etc sell on / barter etc the offspring then NO A10 required, If you give away the young {gifted} then the new owner will have to prove the Origin of the Annex A, CITES may issue you with a S/specific and may include restrictions on breeding or display ie commercial usage. The A10 will stay with animal at any stage of its life ie gifted away etc. I would strongly advise to get the sellers name address contact info or do not accept the animal without proof of captive bred specimen.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> NO
> You still require proof of Origin!! If you have and own both parents and do not display etc sell on / barter etc the offspring then NO A10 required, If you give away the young {gifted} then the new owner will have to prove the Origin of the Annex A, CITES may issue you with a S/specific and may include restrictions on breeding or display ie commercial usage. The A10 will stay with animal at any stage of its life ie gifted away etc. I would strongly advise to get the sellers name address contact info or do not accept the animal without proof of captive bred specimen.


An A10 only stays with the animal if it is a SPECIMEN SPECIFIC CERTIFICATE. An A10 is purely for commercial gain.
So I have an Annex A species. 
I bought it legally as the seller had an A10. I don't need my own A10 for that specimen to keep it. 
Now I want to sell it. I therefore need an A10.
I want to buy an Annex A specimen. To do so legally I need to ensure that there is an A10 for that specimen.
Now, if that A10is transaction specific, fine. I don't get a copy, but I ask the seller for the A10 number. I breed that, and want to keep all the babies. I don't need a certificate. I decide to sell, so I now need one. To apply, I need the certificate number of the parent to prove it was lawfully acquired. That animal is now being used for a commercial purpose, as are the babies being sold. They too need an A10.
Don't forget that the A10 is purely a part of EU Regs.
CITES is not international law. Member countries are required to have domestic laws to implement the treaty.
The EU ramped up the requirements, what isn't clear is if, when we leave, we stick to the enhanced EU rules, or revert to the lower standards.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

*Quarantine*

All A10's now stay with the specimen...In all and most cases an A10 will be required to prove that the said species was captive bred or a derivative of said specimen, so again i would advise that all who intend to purchase or just to keep an annex A specimen take a thought of the complications of getting that info after the fact of purchase especially from a stranger who you will want information later. The authorities can confiscate your animal and can if convicted charge you a hefty fine. You can also ask the seller /from gifted for the A10 CERT number and or a photocopy to which you can forward to CITES office in Bristol, they will check that the info is genuine or not before you commit in taking on the animal /bird etc dead or alive !! The responsibility is you the keeper at the end of the day.: victory:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

skunkie said:


> All A10's now stay with the specimen...In all and most cases an A10 will be required to prove that the said species was captive bred or a derivative of said specimen, so again i would advise that all who intend to purchase or just to keep an annex A specimen take a thought of the complications of getting that info after the fact of purchase especially from a stranger who you will want information later. The authorities can confiscate your animal and can if convicted charge you a hefty fine. You can also ask the seller /from gifted for the A10 CERT number and or a photocopy to which you can forward to CITES office in Bristol, they will check that the info is genuine or not before you commit in taking on the animal /bird etc dead or alive !! The responsibility is you the keeper at the end of the day.: victory:


If that's the case that makes things so much easier!
I've tried to find that change in the new Regs but I can't. It does make sense to either have an A10 or not, rather than two types that most people wouldn't realise had different entitlements.


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## skunkie (May 30, 2010)

ian14 said:


> If that's the case that makes things so much easier!
> I've tried to find that change in the new Regs but I can't. It does make sense to either have an A10 or not, rather than two types that most people wouldn't realise had different entitlements.


Less stress all round with an A10 in your possession eace:


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