# Grapes Responsible For Death



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

*Grapes Responsible For Skunk Death.. RIP Maryjane. RIP Stompy PLEASE READ*

THIS IS AN URGENT WARNING TO PEOPLE REGARDING GRAPES

TRAGICALLY, YESTERDAY, LOU AND RAY LOST BOTH THEIR SKUNKS AS A RESULT OF A GRAPE BINGE..

this is a copy of the post they have done so far, a full vet report will be scanned and posted once its done.. 

please, those of you with mammals, strike grapes off the dietry lists.. they have been shown to be toxic in dogs, they are recommended as a "treat only" in gliders.. and now they have been the cause of the death of two skunks also.

"I wanted to hold off writing this and am crying as i type but feel it needs to be said for other unaware owners.

As some of you were aware we had 2 very cheeky very loving skunks Stompy and Mary Jane

They both passed away today after all our efforts and our wonderful vets effort who worked from the moment they went in through the night and through the next day, unfortunately we were too late and they both died of kidney failure. 

RIP stompy who died 8am this morning (weds)

RIP Mary Jane who had a short life but died 4pm this afternoon (weds)

The cause of this death was grapes in their diet so please unless you knwo grapes are safe for your mammal remove them from your diets we do not want any of you to have to go through what we are now. we thought and were told by many skunk keepers from the usa that grapes were safe we have now found they are not.

Loulou and Fixx

(please feel free to cross post this to any forum you know we are active in I dont have the heart)"

guys.. i don't have the words to tell you how i feel, but.. you and they are both in my thoughts today, and were yesterday too..

all our love.. nerys & the girls..


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

eace:


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## pixie_bex (Jul 1, 2006)

Thats Terrible,

Would you know if they are still safe to give to Beardies?? Sorry for thinking of myself but Obi loves them..

Big hugs to Lou and Ray im so sorry for your terrible loss xxx


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

I heard about this last night.. I can honestly say I am absolutely heartbroken :sad:

All my love to Lou and Ray, and rest quietly Stompy and Mary Jane. xx


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

grapes, as far as i have always been told, are not a good thing for any pet really..

raisons can also be toxic, and i avoid feeding them to anything i own too..

this is some info i have dug out for you



According to the ASPCA, around 1989 a disturbing trend began to emerge from the AnTox database used by its AnimalPoisonControlCenter: Nearly all the dogs reported to have eaten grapes or raisins developed acute renal (kidney) failure. These cases were noted all across the USA, with the amount eaten varying widely, from over a pound of grapes to as little as a single serving of raisins. 
The database showed that dogs who ate the grapes and raisins typically vomited within a few hours of ingestion. Most of the time, partially digested grapes and raisins could be seen in the vomit, fecal material, or both. At this point, some dogs would stop eating (anorexia), and develop diarrhea. The dogs often became quiet and lethargic, and showed signs of abdominal pain. These clinical signs lasted for several days — sometimes even weeks. 

When medical care was sought, blood chemistry panels showed consistent patterns. Hypercalcemia (elevated blood calcium levels) was frequently present, as well as elevated levels of blood urea nitrogen, creatinine and phosphorous (substances that reflect kidney function). These chemistries began to increase anywhere from 24 hours to several days after the dogs ate the fruit. As the kidney damage developed, the dogs would produce little urine. When they could no longer produce urine, death occurred. In some cases, dogs who received timely veterinary care still had to be euthanized. 
Although it is not known what component of the grapes or raisins causes renal failure in dogs, certain possibilities have been ruled out, including various pesticides, some heavy metals such as zinc and lead, and fungal contaminants. That dogs react in this fashion to both commercially-produced grapes and those grown informally in their owners' back yards indicates the likely culprit has nothing to do with the growing or cultivation process but is instead basic to grapes themselves. 

In other words, all grapes are potentially dangerous to dogs — both grapes in the plump, "just picked" form and as their dried counterparts, raisins, and regardless of whether they came from the store or off the neighbor's vine. Don't feed your dog grapes or raisins, and don't leave these foodstuffs out where he could help himself to them. 

This is not to say you need live in fear of your pooch's keeling over dead if he swallows a grape or two. However, if he downs a handful of grapes or even a smaller amount of raisins, get him to your veterinarian right away. Aggressive treatment with intravenous fluids and close monitoring are his best chance for survival. 

Grapes and raisins aren't the only people foods known to be dangerous to man's best friend. Chocolate and cocoa can prove deadly to them, as can onions and macadamia nuts


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## pixie_bex (Jul 1, 2006)

Thank you for that Nerys

I cant begin to imagen how they must be feeling


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

wonder why it is us humans can eat stuff like grapes, avacados, chocolate and other things with no ill effects, but these things are so toxic to other animals? esp. birds. it's weird how different our systems are. something as benign as a grape can kill things. i would have made the same mistake. i've fed grapes to lots of things before. it's a crying shame about the skunks. i'd be crushed.


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## 1949_sam (Jan 21, 2007)

*OMG i had no idea  and wont be feeding Grapes to any of my pets and thats for sure...*

*Nerys please send them all my love and that we are all thinking of them...*

*R.I.P Stompy + Mary Jane*

*All our love Sam, Jamie + House full*
* x x x x*
* x x x*
* x x*
* x*


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

You beat me to it Nerys - I've posted the following on all the suggie forums I'm a member of and some none suggie forums too.



> As of yesterday, I'm gutted to have to tell you but grapes have claimed the lives of 2 more animals belonging to some very good friends of mine in the UK. I'm not going to say what kind of animal as they will come forward and announce it themseleves when they feel ready, all I will tell you is it's not suggies, dogs or parrots.
> The past reports of dogs and parrots are easy to dismiss as the dogs are in the US and they belong to strangers, I've fed all my animals grapes and there's never been any problems, but now it's too close to home to ignore (or bury your head in the sand!)
> IF YOU ARE FEEDING GRAPES, STOP NOW!! It has NOTHING to do with different digestive systems or how they function. I believe it is the insecticide DDT that is STILL used in SOME countries today. The DDT is sprayed whether it's directly on to the crop or not, some residue will settle on to the plant BUT ALSO it is washed INTO the soil and is ABSORBED by the plant and will be passed on to the fruit growing on the plant. So washing the fruit thoroughly WILL NOT wash away the DDT, it's actually IN the fruit.
> I would imagine the toxins build up in the system to the point that the kidneys cannot cope with trying to erradicate it, and they fail, which sadly happened to my friends animals.
> ...


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i know... so sad... its posted to the usa skunk chat sites i am on too.. so i know the EU folks will see it on there.. spent last night calling the skunk owners i know to warn them too..

marie.. re: the ddt...

this is what the above site says



> Although it is not known what component of the grapes or raisins causes renal failure in dogs, certain possibilities have been ruled out, including various pesticides, some heavy metals such as zinc and lead, and fungal contaminants. That dogs react in this fashion to both commercially-produced grapes and those grown informally in their owners' back yards indicates the likely culprit has nothing to do with the growing or cultivation process but is instead basic to grapes themselves.


what do you think?

lou said their bloods showed potassium levels had gone through the roof, but i just looked up the potassium content of grapes.. 2.3 mg K/CAL.. and i feed stuff thats a lot higher daily... celery for instance is 20 mg K/CAL.. Broccoli is 12 mg... cauliflower is 10.9mg.. 

so.. what is is about them?

N

N


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## Kylie (Mar 12, 2006)

Nerys please send my love to stompy and mj's mummy and daddy i am gutted for then my thoughts are with them both

kylie
xx


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thoughts for Lou and Ray - I am soo soo sorry to have had to read this  

R.I.P Stompy and Mary-Jane - sleep well


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

that is so sad 

words fail me at times like this ....


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Nerys said:


> lou said their bloods showed potassium levels had gone through the roof, but i just looked up the potassium content of grapes.. 2.3 mg K/CAL.. and i feed stuff thats a lot higher daily... celery for instance is 20 mg K/CAL.. Broccoli is 12 mg... cauliflower is 10.9mg..
> 
> so.. what is is about them?
> 
> ...


For the higher K concentration foods (celery/broccoli) they'll probably just pass through the digestive system and be dealt with in the bodys normal fashion...it looks like grapes may contain a neurotransmitter/enzyme that actually tells the body to keep more K than it should (rather than actually introducing the K itself).

It is a wonder that if it affects so many mammals that it doesn't effect humans :?, maybe it would in high enough quantities? Are they ok to feed to birds? I've often given by budgie half a grape as a treat and he loves them :-|.

Very sad to hear though ...losing any pet is bad but losing one of the kind which bonds closely to you must be much worse.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

I think Nerys grapes should be struck off diet lists ... period!

I have a sneaky feeling that grapes contain cyanide - but I'm NOT sure on that one! I know that in hot countries where a lot of grapes are grown they use DDT in areas that have a high population of mosquitos.

I think ALOT more research needs to be done. Did Lou tell you how or why the vet came to the conclusion it was the grapes?

Intravenous - there was an article in Cage and Aviary Birds last year about a parrot breeder who lost all her birds after feeding them half a grape each! I don't understand why SOME grapes seem to be super toxic (it seems) and some aren't?


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

glidergirl said:


> I have a sneaky feeling that grapes contain cyanide - but I'm NOT sure on that one!


I don't think they do (I'm checking just now though)...almonds do so I don't know how well they'd go down.



> Intravenous - there was an article in Cage and Aviary Birds last year about a parrot breeder who lost all her birds after feeding them half a grape each! I don't understand why SOME grapes seem to be super toxic (it seems) and some aren't?


Hmm :shock:.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

The cyanide I'm really not sure about! I no longer have the issue with the article in, but TBH I think don't feed grapes! Better safe than sorry


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

the cyanide is contained in the seeds..

likewise it is in apple, peach etc etc

When we think of dangers lurking in our food, we tend to concentrate on the threats posed by chemical additives or by improper and careless handling. Yet the truth is that we routinely come into contact with naturally occurring poisons in a number of the fruits we ingest. 

 Apples are one such fruit: their pips (seeds) contain amygdalin, a cyanide and sugar compound that degrades into hydrogen cyanide (HCN) when metabolized. Cyanide itself is a poison that kills by denying blood the ability to carry oxygen and thereby causes its victims to die of asphyxiation. At least within the realm of murder mysteries, cyanide is the darling of poisoners because it acts quickly and irrevocably — once a fatal dose has been ingested, there is no effective antidote, and death takes place within minutes. It is sometimes described as having a bitter almond smell, but it does not always give off an odor, nor can everyone detect the scent. Cyanide is usually found joined with other chemicals in compounds: hydrogen cyanide, cyanogen chloride, sodium cyanide, and potassium cyanide. In the death camps of World War II, the Nazis used hydrogen cyanide (Zyklon B) for their gas chambers. 
 
Luckily for those fond of their Granny Smiths, the body can detoxify cyanide in small doses, and the number of apple seeds it takes to pack a lethal punch is therefore huge — even the most dedicated of apple eaters is extremely unlikely to ingest enough pips to cause any harm. Yet those who have heard apple seeds house a poison (usually remembered as arsenic, a quite different though equally deadly compound) cling to the frightening belief that swallowing a small number of pips spells instant death. We've had folks fret to us that ingesting as few as three apple seeds would do someone in, a "fact" which, if true, would mean each and every one of us was flirting with the grim reaper every time we made a grab for a delicious 


Apple pips also have a tough protective coating which makes swallowing them even less of a risky proposition; unless the pips are pulverized or masticated, the amygdalin they house remains safely contained within. Apple pips have hard, durable shells that allow them to pass intact through the digestive systems of animals, a quality which helps the apple to reproduce by distributing its seeds to new locations far from the originating trees. Were apple pips susceptible to the eroding effects of digestive juices, apple trees could not reproduce nearly as well as they do — their seeds would not be so widely spread, and a good many of the pips would be destroyed before germinating. 

Cherry, peach, and apricot pits also contain amygdalin; the latter two, at least, in potentially harmful amounts. Fortunately, peach and apricot pits are sufficiently large and hard that few people intentionally swallow or chew them.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

marie... 

from what i gather, stompy and MJ got into a box of grapes overnight.. its not like lou and ray fed them a bowl of them you know?

from reading between the lines.. i would guess it was monday night they got into the grapes.. ray found MJ limp and lifeless tuesday lunch and rushed her to the vets... stompy started to act odd later that day, so they rushed him down too.. and basically it all went tits up from there on. Stompy died at 8am weds morning, and MJ at 4pm that afternoon.

as it says for the dogs, if you find you pet has broken into and consumed a large amount of grapes, we now know it would be wise to take them to the vets as soon as you can, where they may be able to countact it (See above for where it says about it in the dog link)

N


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

grape seeds.. actually... i can't find reference to them containing it... but i can find...

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

"There's no amygdalin in grape seeds"


and the only other mention of it really, is two Chilean *grapes* containing *cyanide, *that had been spiked..


i can find mention of them being toxic also to cats too tho


wikkipedia has this to say:

*Grape and raisin toxicity in the dog* is a potential health threat to dogs that have eaten grapes or raisins. It can cause the dog to develop acute renal failure (the sudden development of kidney failure) with anuria (a lack of urine production). The phenomenon was first identified by the Animal Poison Control Center (APCC), run by the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA). A trend was seen as far back as 1999.[1] Approximately 140 cases were seen by the APCC in the one year from April 2003 to April 2004, with 50 developing symptoms and seven dying.[2]


The reason why some dogs develop renal failure following ingestion of grapes and raisins is not known. Types of grapes involved include both seedless and seeded, store bought and homegrown, and grape pressings from wineries.[3] A mycotoxin is suspected to be involved, but one has not been found in grapes or raisins ingested by affected dogs.[4] The estimated toxic dose of grapes is 32 g/kg (grams of grapes per kilograms of mass of the dog), and for raisins it is 11–30 g/kg.[5] The most common pathological finding is proximal renal tubular necrosis.[6] In some cases, an accumulation of an unidentified golden-brown pigment was found within renal epithelial cells.[7]


Vomiting and diarrhea are often the first symptoms of grape or raisin toxicity. They often develop within a few hours of ingestion. Pieces of grapes or raisins may be present in the vomitus or stool. Further symptoms include weakness, not eating, increased drinking, and abdominal pain. Acute renal failure develops within 48 hours of ingestion.[4] A blood test may reveal increases in blood urea nitrogen (BUN), creatinine, phosphorus, and calcium.



Emesis (induction of vomiting) is the generally recommended treatment if a dog has eaten grapes or raisins within the past two hours. A veterinarian may use an emetic such as hydrogen peroxide or apomorphine to cause the dog to vomit. Further treatment may involve the use of activated charcoal to absorb remaining toxins in the gastrointestinal tract and intravenous fluid therapy in the first 48 hours following ingestion to induce diuresis and help to prevent acute renal failure.[1] Vomiting is treated with antiemetics and the stomach is protected from uremic gastritis (damage to the stomach from increased BUN) with H2 receptor antagonists. BUN, creatinine, calcium, phosphorus, sodium, and potassium levels are closely monitored. Dialysis of the blood (hemodialysis) and peritoneal dialysis can be used to support the kidneys if anuria develops. Oliguria (decreased urine production) can be treated with dopamine or furosemide to stimulate urine production.[5]
The prognosis is guarded in any dog developing symptoms of toxicosis. A negative prognosis has been associated with oliguria or anuria, weakness, difficulty walking, and severe hypercalcemia (increased blood calcium levels).[6]



ASPCA: ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center Issues Nationwide Update: Raisins and Grapes Can Be Toxic To Dogs


http://www.aspca.org/site/DocServer/McKnight-Tox_Brief-Feb_VT_05.pdf?docID=3782


Sign In page - International Veterinary Information Service - IVIS


Merck Veterinary Manual


(Ingestion of grapes or raisins has resulted in development of anuric renal failure in some dogs. Cases reported to date have been in dogs; an anecdotal report exists of a cat developing renal failure following ingestion of 1 cup of organic raisins. It is not known why many dogs can ingest grapes or raisins with impunity while others develop renal failure following ingestion. The condition has not been reproduced experimentally. 
Pathogenesis: The mechanism of toxicity is unknown. Affected dogs develop anuric renal failure within 72 hr of ingestion of grapes or raisins. Estimated amounts of grapes associated with renal injury in dogs are ~32 g/kg; amounts of raisins associated with signs range from 11-30 g/kg.  Clinical Findings: Most affected dogs develop vomiting and/or diarrhea within 6-12 hr of ingestion of grapes or raisins. Other signs include lethargy, anorexia, abdominal pain, weakness, dehydration, polydipsia, and tremors (shivering). Oliguric or anuric renal failure develops within 24-72 hr of exposure; once anuric renal failure develops, most dogs die or are euthanized. Transient elevations in serum glucose, liver enzymes, pancreatic enzymes, serum calcium, or serum phosphorus develop in some dogs.  Diagnosis: Diagnosis is based on history of exposure, along with clinical signs. Other causes of renal failure (eg, ethylene glycol, cholecalciferol) should be considered in the differential diagnosis.  Treatment: Prompt decontamination of significant ingestion of raisins or grapes is recommended. Emesis can be induced with 3% hydrogen peroxide (2 mL/kg; no more than 45 mL), followed by activated charcoal. With large ingestions or in cases where vomiting and/or diarrhea has spontaneously developed within 12 hr of ingestion of grapes or raisins, aggressive fluid diuresis for 48 hr is recommended. Renal function and fluid balance should be monitored during fluid administration. For oliguric dogs, urine production may be stimulated by using dopamine (0.5-3 µg/kg/min, IV) and/or furosemide (2 mg/kg, IV). Anuric dogs are unlikely to survive unless peritoneal dialysis or hemodialysis is performed, and even then the prognosis is guarded. )


Acute renal failure in dogs after the ingestion of...[J Vet Intern Med. 2005 Sep-Oct] - PubMed Result


Canine renal pathology associated with grape or ra...[J Vet Diagn Invest. 2005] - PubMed Result


hope thats of some interest to some of you, i know it will go right over the head of some, but hope it helps some too.


N


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Oh my - what a nightmare!!! I didn't think for a second they would be stuffing them full of grapes, but I've not had the heart to ask them what happened or how the vet came to the decision it was the grapes, but it's something I needed to know so that I could tell others how the conclusion came about. 

As for the cyanide, I know it's in the pips which is why we should remove them before feeding them to our suggies, but apparently it's in seedless grapes too. I've read so much stuff on the toxicity of grapes since I first heard about it 2 years ago, but I'd forgotten most of it because I'd heard of no more cases!


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

please pass on my deepest sympathies RIP lil skunks


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

So sad RIP wee Skunks


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## farleigh24 (Apr 9, 2007)

sorry to here the news, its very good of you too let people know whats happened to warn them so the same thing cant happen again, best wishes to you


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

glidergirl said:


> Oh my - what a nightmare!!! I didn't think for a second they would be stuffing them full of grapes, but I've not had the heart to ask them what happened or how the vet came to the decision it was the grapes, but it's something I needed to know so that I could tell others how the conclusion came about.
> 
> As for the cyanide, I know it's in the pips which is why we should remove them before feeding them to our suggies, but apparently it's in seedless grapes too. I've read so much stuff on the toxicity of grapes since I first heard about it 2 years ago, but I'd forgotten most of it because I'd heard of no more cases!


no, being me i quizzed the poor sods a bit.. i have got more questions for them, but they can wait for now.. i know a lot more about grapes than i did this morning for sure

just some more reading...

Dogs are exposed to grapes and raisins in many ways. Frequently, dogs will eat fruit off the vine, steal from plates, and even eat wine pressings. Grapes and raisins have been recommended as treats and training aids because fruit is tasty and relatively low in calories. Unfortunately, dogs can have dangerous reactions to grapes and raisins. Between January 2001 and August 2004, over 200 calls were made to the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center1 involving potential exposures to grapes or raisins in dogs. Sensitive dogs have a risk of initial gastrointestinal upset followed by acute renal failure (ARF). This column discusses clinical signs and treatment of grape and raisin toxicosis in dogs.

MECHANISM OF ACTION
In cases of grape or raisin toxicosis in dogs, the actual mechanism of toxaction remains unknown. The exact pathophysiology of ARF following the ingestion of grapes or raisins remains undetermined. Theories include metabolic
disruption, a nephrotoxic mycotoxin, and an idiosyncratic reaction. Dogs that have developed ARF were exposed in various ways. Ingestions included grapes purchased from a grocery store as well as grapes found in the backyard, grape pressings from wineries, and both the seedless and seeded varieties. Some of the grapes involved were tested for pesticides, heavy metals, and mycotoxins (all findings were negative). It is unclear if the skin of the grape must be ingested for ARF to occur. Currently, grape-seed extract is not considered a threat; only the grape or raisin itself is considered a danger. So far, dogs are the primary species affected. Whether other species are affected remains unknown. (nerys - not any more..







)

CLINICAL SIGNS
At this time, the lowest documented toxic grape or raisin dose is 0.32 to 0.65 oz/kg.5 Without knowing the exact
mechanism of action, all cases of grape or raisin ingestion should be considered potentially serious. Vomiting is one of
the initial signs of grape or raisin toxicity and can occur within the first 2 hours. Other initial signs that can occur
within the first 5 to 6 hours of exposure include diarrhea, lethargy, and polydipsia. Signs of ARF may develop
either within 24 hours or several days after exposure. Signs of ARF may include anorexia, lethargy, depression,
vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, tremors, and hypovolemia. Changes in the patient’s blood chemistry may be
noted and mainly involve hypercalcemia, blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, and hyperphosphatemia. Tubular degeneration and necrosis of the kidneys may follow. Tubular necrosis may be seen on histopathology. Mineralization of the kidneys has also been seen in some cases.

DIAGNOSIS
Clinical signs of grape or raisin toxicosis are similar to those of other causes of ARF. Diagnosis of grape toxaction icity is based on history of exposure, type of clinical signs, and evidence of ARF. Chemistry profiles should be used to evaluate the function of the kidney. Other common differentials for ARF, such as ethylene glycol ingestion, trauma, and other disease processes, should be discussed.

TREATMENT
Management of a patient with grape or raisin toxicosis depends on the animal’s initial presentation. Decontamination by emesis (induced vomiting), followed by administration of activated charcoal, is important in all recent ingestions. Emesis should be induced within the first 2 hours after exposure. The longer emesis is delayed after exposure, the less likely it is to be effective. Fluid diuresis for the first 48 hours may help prevent ARF from developing. Blood chemistry values, including
renal enzymes, should be monitored for 72 hours. Medications such as furosemide, dopamine, or mannitol can be used in anuric renal failure. Hemodialysis or peritoneal dialysis may be of benefit if available. Basic supportive care and monitoring during hospitalization is important


http://www.aspca.org/site/DocServer/McKnight-Tox_Brief-Feb_VT_05.pdf?docID=3782


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

My thoughts are with them. I can only imagine how they must be feeling. Hopefully this knowledge will help prevent accidents like this happening again. 
Sleep well little skunky butts


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## Guest (May 24, 2007)

Thats really unlucky... give them our best wishes and RIP the little skunks


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## royalnking (Mar 26, 2007)

this is dreadful news. i was only looking at the beautiful photos of these two the other night and dreaming of one day owning one myself as they are such wonderful creatures.

please pass on my deepest sympathy they must be feeling dreadful but they are not to blame themselves it could have happened to anybody unfortunately it usually takes something like this for information to become general knowledge. i wouldn't have guessed that grapes in their makeup could cause such damage

debbie


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

grapes, who'd of thunk it!


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## Solo (Dec 23, 2006)

I'm so sorry  I'd only just heard that grapes are toxic to dogs, let alone about their effect on other animals! RIP skunklets xx


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

i am very sorry to hear about the loss of Ray and Lous two skunks


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

words fail me, my thoughts are with you both.
R.I.P little skunks


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

That's really really sad :-x


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## busybee (Aug 20, 2006)

Thoughts with Lou and Ray at this very sad time. You must be totally devastated. RIP Stompy and MJ xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## bluetongued (Apr 25, 2007)

Very sad.....so.sorry to hear this I was looking at the pictures of them the other day

I was looking on youtube and found this......thought nothing of it but now reading this thread I think someone should inform this lady of the risks to her fantastic pouched rat!!
Or is that not a large enough amount to cause any damage.

YouTube - Emin's pouched rat, grapes


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## jml220679 (Aug 1, 2006)

*grapes*

i did an article about grape toxicity in mammals for the ANC (animal news centre) some 6 or so years ago and all research found them to cause kidney problems in many unrelated species along with many other species specific symtoms.

Also, having been admitted to a specialist hospital with severe kidney pains etc a couple of years ago i too was told to stay away from grapes and raisins.

It really isn't worth the risk and from personal experience ill kidneys really are absolute agony, I can't even describe the pain. 


I WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE *NOT* TO FEED THEM AT ALL.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

is there any chance of seeing a copy of that??

thanks 

N


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

jml220679 said:


> Also, having been admitted to a specialist hospital with severe kidney pains etc a couple of years ago i too was told to stay away from grapes and raisins.
> 
> It really isn't worth the risk and from personal experience ill kidneys really are absolute agony, I can't even describe the pain.


It's possible that your kidneys were weak (or possibly your liver) from something else at the time and the grape toxin just overloaded you. I've been known to eat two whole bunches of grapes in one sitting without side effects :hmm:.


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## Mez (Feb 19, 2007)

Sorry for the loss, Nerys...
Just one thing i might point out and i dont know how much you guys feed them to your exotics, but the foliage of cheries is known to be very toxic to humans, not sure about animals but just a heads up..
James


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## Andy b 1 (May 14, 2007)

skunks! why do you have them as a pet? but yeah i feel really bad for you


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

andrew b 1 said:


> skunks! why do you have them as a pet?


Without denigrating any of our other animals, including my dog Blaze, I can honestly say that never have any animals brought me so much joy as our skunks and our house is a quieter and sadder house without them running aaround causing havoc. Other people who know us, including my parents asked the same thing, until they met them in the flesh and they saw what beautiful, wonderful animals they are. Full of character, all unique, all wonderful.

I look forward to the day when we have skunks living with us again.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

In our search for baby skunks we contacted an old acquiantence who we knew had a pair of skunks, he told us he had lost BOTH of his skunks earlier this year 8 hours after giving them a 'treat' which was a GRAPE or two!! 

!


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Just bumping this as there are a few new skunk owners on here nowadays.

Please take heed people. Young skunks and even some adults are very good at climbing and very tenacious, make sure anything they shouldn't have is locked away safely or totally out of reach, don't learn the hard way like we had too.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

I will not allow grapes or chocolate in my house because of the dogs so lil havoc wont ever get a chance of finding any grapes here : victory:


thank you for bumping it up though ray as there are so many people that dont realise so many of our foods are toxic to animals


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## devilsofdarkness (Mar 26, 2006)

OMG! i am so sorry for the sad loss of the skunks...I admit I have learnt a good few things on this post that EVERYONE should know....I used to feed my parrot grapes once a week..luckily she decided she didnt like them anymore so i dont buy them....However, i didnt realise HOW toxic they could be to certain animals and I wont be feeding them to any of my animals from now on....I guess what i trying to say is that in a wierd way, i thank stompy and Mj for bringing this to our attention.....from a very sad situation they have saved many other animals from the same sad fate....

Best wishes to thier owners and rip little skunkies...have fun at rainbow bridge


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

so sorry for your loss and thank you for taking the time to bring this to people's attention, my boyfriend feeds grapes to his beardy as a treat but i will definately warn him as its better to be safe than sorry and i wont be having them in the house with my dog.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

bluetongued said:


> Very sad.....so.sorry to hear this I was looking at the pictures of them the other day
> 
> I was looking on youtube and found this......thought nothing of it but now reading this thread I think someone should inform this lady of the risks to her fantastic pouched rat!!
> Or is that not a large enough amount to cause any damage.
> ...


 
My pouchies all adore grapes but I will not be buying them again.

For what its worth, sorry for your loss Ray & Lou. It wont bring them back but we are all thinking of you.

Jay & Caroline x


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## Willem (Apr 10, 2008)

Thank you for sharing this I have just removed the couple that I gave my rats earlier. I am really sorry for your loss


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## tillie (Jan 9, 2008)

I wont be feeding George grapes although the breeder does feed them to his and recommended I feed George them. Its not worth the risk to me.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> My pouchies all adore grapes but I will not be buying them again.
> 
> For what its worth, sorry for your loss Ray & Lou. It wont bring them back but we are all thinking of you.
> 
> Jay & Caroline x


 
Not regarding skunks but going back to pouched rats, the rat in the youtube video eating grapes actually died at 2 years old. This species should live to circa 8 years.


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## tilly790 (Jan 24, 2008)

When we first got our Great dane , we didnt know anything edable wasnt safeWe had grapes in the fruit dish..as you do & Sherman ate the lot. It was some time later we found out how lucky he was. Sorry about the poor little skunks.


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