# Viper & vine pet shop, prestwich



## skinky

Hi, in my attempts to find skunk owners in the manchester area to ask them for info on owning them i came accross this petshop, has anyone had any dealings with them? They sell a rather wide range of animals including skunks an wonder what peoples thoughts are on them as im always dubious of pet shop animals as apposed to home breeders.
The link is Live pets , feeds , housing and accessories delivered worldwide


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## tarantulabarn

I know of V&V and know matt from shows etc, i dont think i have met a more passionate about what he does pet shop owner, very caring and helpful, the after sales are great as well, he is allways happy to chat about the animals he sells


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## paulajo

WOW! I just had a nosey....their Genets aint half expensive, compared to what i bought mine for! :gasp:


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## PresqueVu

Prices do seem rather high.

They would not answer me regarding whether some species on there were wild caught or not, and they've used my photos without permission before. They did respond very quickly to remove them which I appreciate, but the fact that they can't provide their own worries me.


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## em_40

yeh, all the exotic mammals are just googled pictures, nice variety of stuff on there, some seems really but then others seem ok value. Not had any person dealings though, I have wandered about them myself tbh 

ETA: The genets are no doubt more than double what you paid right? is lola hand reared? HR seem to have much higher price tag... Though not usually that much!


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## mrcriss

Don't go to the shop expecting to have encounters with exotic mammals.....there aren't any there. 

To the OP, if you want to meet skunks in Manchester, you could come to the exotic mammal picnic in the park that the local reptile club are planning for late august.:2thumb:


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## skinky

Thanks your your replies. I just want to make sure i get the best info possible an always here about pet shops that arnt to knowlegable on the animals they keep as was the case with one i know of that sells sugar gliders. obviously this is not the case with all shops i just wanted to be sure. How do i find out more about the exotic mammal picnic in the park? It sounds great and something i MUST go to.


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## mrcriss

skinky said:


> Thanks your your replies. I just want to make sure i get the best info possible an always here about pet shops that arnt to knowlegable on the animals they keep as was the case with one i know of that sells sugar gliders. obviously this is not the case with all shops i just wanted to be sure. How do i find out more about the exotic mammal picnic in the park? It sounds great and something i MUST go to.


To get the best help, I'd never ask a pet shop. Yes, some of them _may_ know some stuff about some animals, but their views are skewed as they won't tell you about any of the bad stuff, because they just want to make a sale. Depressingly, you can sometimes (though not always) say the same things about private breeders too! 

I find that if you want to get the real story, it's often (though not always) best to ask the keepers that have experience, but don't have anything to sell. There are plenty of skunk keepers in the north-west, and I'm sure that every one would chat about their lovely pets until your ears fall off!

That's why the mammal picnic is so good because there are no animal sales allowed, but you can pick their brains as much as you like, making an informed decision about which exotic is best for you:2thumb:

It's going to be in late august, and a thread will be started on here after the july meet is out of the way. If you're interested in reptiles too, why not come along to this month's meet? Here's the link to the current thread I just started: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ter-reptile-club-kids-night.html#post10256732

OR all our events get announced first on the busy MRC Facebook group, which you can feel free to join (the link is in my sig below):2thumb:

Sorry if this has sounded like a sales pitch....it really isn't, because the club isn't run for profit.....just for laughs and a good night out. Just thought I'd pass on all the details.:blush:


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## Elina

I contacted them when Logan, Sapphire's 1st boyfriend passed away with regards to getting a male arctic fox from them. I asked them if they had any as they were listed on their site and they said they did and yet the guy could not give me any information about how old they were. I asked him for a photo which over a 2 weeks he never sent me as he always said he had to go somewhere to see the animals and he had not been.

The prices are very steep. I only considered them as Sapphire was not coping well with Logan's passing. I ended up getting Slush from Dave in the end.

I think like most places that advertise exotics they order them in when you want them. 

-Elina


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## StaneyWid

Sadly i wont be using them again,recieved 9 tokay geckos.....In one bag.....3 males......Yep?
So 2 tail losses,1 seriously unhealthy like a skeleton and the rest stressed out.literally all in a cricket bag/sack! 
When phoned to complain and asked how that situation was supposed to turn out,i got basically acussed of being a liar? Like this was tottally not feesable! Few other faults on the delivery stuff not same as stated on website etc
Think its maybe a diff story in the actual shop but the online section does not have my vote at all,considerin the prices to boot would think the service would be much better....altho my oppinion i understand others will have had better experiences


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## skinky

I think i will steer clear of that shop then! Not ideal is it sending them all together in a bag like that!
The reptile club meet sounds great, i have had a few lizards in the past so think i will deffinately be coming along. 

I have emailed a few private owners i have found rather than people who have them for sale as like you said there not after the sale. I think its a must for me to come to the mammal picnic though, hopefully i can get some good info to help me make the right decision. Thanks for all your replies


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## mrcriss

Well if you make it to the picnic, make sure you fight everyone off for a cuddle with my Rosy:2thumb:


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## skinky

Haha i will certainly try but i have a feeling i may not want to give her back haha


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## mstypical

Hellooo

I have used V&V for a number of years, some time ago they had some questionable staff, and equally questionable animals. I bought a pair of zebra finches, the male was fine, healthy, but unfortunately I lost 4 females, no explanation was offered and each died within a week of me bringing them home. They tried to suggest I had used aerosols (ie air freshener) around the birds, until I pointed out the male had survived the whole time...

I also received some very dodgy advice about a chile rose, and stopped using the shop.

However, that was almost 2 years ago and I have started using them again, they've had a refurb and got good staff (yay!), Rob, Matt and Sid are lovely, and yes they do have some WC/LTC/CF animals but they are usually honest about the origins of the animals and ask about your experience with them before selling them to you. I haven't used the online shop as I would never buy a live animal from a website, so I can't comment on that : victory:


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## mrcriss

skinky said:


> Haha i will certainly try but i have a feeling i may not want to give her back haha


we've yet to meet someone that hasn't said just that!:roll2:


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## Buriram

StaneyWid said:


> Sadly i wont be using them again,recieved 9 tokay geckos.....In one bag.....3 males......Yep?
> So 2 tail losses,1 seriously unhealthy like a skeleton and the rest stressed out.literally all in a cricket bag/sack!
> When phoned to complain and asked how that situation was supposed to turn out,i got basically acussed of being a liar? Like this was tottally not feesable! Few other faults on the delivery stuff not same as stated on website etc
> Think its maybe a diff story in the actual shop but the online section does not have my vote at all,considerin the prices to boot would think the service would be much better....altho my oppinion i understand others will have had better experiences


I think we need a chat as how can these animals be expensive when you are punting them on this forum at twice the price (CB12 Albino Burmese £65 and being sold on here for £120)? I don't mind if you do this but I don't really want to be bad mouthed at the same time. You will be refunded tomorrow for the out of stock animals.


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## Buriram

Buriram said:


> I think we need a chat as how can these animals be expensive when you are punting them on this forum at twice the price (CB12 Albino Burmese £65 and being sold on here for £120)? I don't mind if you do this but I don't really want to be bad mouthed at the same time. You will be refunded tomorrow for the out of stock animals.


Also it is your Mother that calls the shop to pay on her credit card and there is nobody working in this shop who would call a customer a 'liar' - especially not a lady. 

If there were 9 Tokays in the bag then that means the out of stocks are valued at £240 NOT £285 (as they were £15 each). But did we really put 9 Tokays in a bag I wonder?

I would like a PM on this as I am sure there is a reason for your posts other than the ones I am thinking of!


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## mstypical

StaneyWid said:


> Sadly i wont be using them again,recieved 9 tokay geckos.....In one bag.....3 males......Yep?
> So 2 tail losses,1 seriously unhealthy like a skeleton and the rest stressed out.literally all in a cricket bag/sack!
> When phoned to complain and asked how that situation was supposed to turn out,i got basically acussed of being a liar? Like this was tottally not feesable! Few other faults on the delivery stuff not same as stated on website etc
> Think its maybe a diff story in the actual shop but the online section does not have my vote at all,considerin the prices to boot would think the service would be much better....altho my oppinion i understand others will have had better experiences





Buriram said:


> I think we need a chat as how can these animals be expensive when you are punting them on this forum at twice the price (CB12 Albino Burmese £65 and being sold on here for £120)? I don't mind if you do this but I don't really want to be bad mouthed at the same time. You will be refunded tomorrow for the out of stock animals.


 
Busted!!! :lol2:


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## StaneyWid

Buriram said:


> Also it is your Mother that calls the shop to pay on her credit card and there is nobody working in this shop who would call a customer a 'liar' - especially not a lady.
> 
> If there were 9 Tokays in the bag then that means the out of stocks are valued at £240 NOT £285 (as they were £15 each). But did we really put 9 Tokays in a bag I wonder?
> 
> I would like a PM on this as I am sure there is a reason for your posts other than the ones I am thinking of!


 
Well ive got the proof i took photos? With the tail losses ? As well as the courier who dropped them off ? So lololol very good! And clearly the way you deal and go about things is special! i didnt go into anything else as i wasnt badmouthing any1! just that the whole experience was not good for me or the animals by the looks of it
Fact ive not even bothered to get in touch really does show how bad things are!
But cheers eh again wasnt bothered about even keepin the complain goin rather just share my experiences and thoughts like are clearly alowed :welcome: Also change the prices on ur website? £30 a tokay and £125 a burma ? Again cheers


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## StaneyWid

mstypical said:


> Busted!!! :lol2:


Busted ? lolol Yep by the "Tokay Baggers"

Lesson learnt tho! Spend list time stalkin threads! And bit more time seperating tokay geckos! Never seen anything like it! then to jump down my throat ? In future just dont do silly things and u wont get pulled up on it :welcome:


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## Buriram

skinky said:


> Hi, in my attempts to find skunk owners in the manchester area to ask them for info on owning them i came accross this petshop, has anyone had any dealings with them? They sell a rather wide range of animals including skunks an wonder what peoples thoughts are on them as im always dubious of pet shop animals as apposed to home breeders.
> The link is Live pets , feeds , housing and accessories delivered worldwide


Larger mammals are not kept in the shop. They are bred at home. It is probably wiser to think of me as a breeder who also has a shop and that essentially animals that do not appreciate being kept in a shop are not kept in a shop. It is for these reasons that we keep most of our birds for sale in aviaries in a birdroom that is only open by request. Yes we do lose sales in this way but feel that this is best for the birds. If we wanted to increase bird sales 100 per cent then the easiest thing in the world would be to let the public into the birdroom for a gander BUT we are not willing to do this.


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## mstypical

Buriram said:


> Larger mammals are not kept in the shop. They are bred at home. It is probably wiser to think of me as a breeder who also has a shop and that essentially animals that do not appreciate being kept in a shop are not kept in a shop. It is for these reasons that we keep most of our birds for sale in aviaries in a birdroom that is only open by request. Yes we do lose sales in this way but feel that this is best for the birds. If we wanted to increase bird sales 100 per cent then the easiest thing in the world would be to let the public into the birdroom for a gander BUT we are not willing to do this.


Are you the Thai lady Buriram?


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## Buriram

mstypical said:


> Are you the Thai lady Buriram?


Thai lady curled up asleep. I am feeding Ball Pythons then flicking on the floodlights and building new pens for Corsac Foxes and Asian Leopard Cats as we are swamped with kitties!


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## mstypical

Buriram said:


> Thai lady curled up asleep. I am feeding Ball Pythons then flicking on the floodlights and building new pens for Corsac Foxes and Asian Leopard Cats as we are swamped with kitties!


 
Oh :lol2: sorry! I only know the three guys I mentioned earlier and the Thai lady, thought you were her!


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## Buriram

Buriram said:


> Thai lady curled up asleep. I am feeding Ball Pythons then flicking on the floodlights and building new pens for Corsac Foxes and Asian Leopard Cats as we are swamped with kitties!


Er ... Matthew by the way. Just got nailed by a ~10 year old 3.9kg Ball Python! Will survive though!


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## mstypical

Buriram said:


> Er ... Matthew by the way. Just got nailed by a ~10 year old 3.9kg Ball Python! Will survive though!


Haha rather you than me! I have one of your baby CF royals, she's whacking the weight on now looks beautiful.


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## skinky

Buriram said:


> Larger mammals are not kept in the shop. They are bred at home. It is probably wiser to think of me as a breeder who also has a shop and that essentially animals that do not appreciate being kept in a shop are not kept in a shop. It is for these reasons that we keep most of our birds for sale in aviaries in a birdroom that is only open by request. Yes we do lose sales in this way but feel that this is best for the birds. If we wanted to increase bird sales 100 per cent then the easiest thing in the world would be to let the public into the birdroom for a gander BUT we are not willing to do this.


That certainly does make sense as a better way to keep certain animals. Im only causous of shops giving advice in the more exotic animal as a few years ago i sadly lost my male sugar glider and was worried for my female being alone so wanted to find her a friend. Made the mistake of getting the new one from a pet shop who to my disgust kept the gliders in a small glass tank complete with inside light and fed them on hamster food!!!!! Clearly they had no idea of the needs of that animal. It took 6 month before the poor thing started to stop stressing when i came in the room and another 6 before she would take food from me so as you can see i have been put off the shops although i am aware that this is probably only the case with the minority. Thanks for your reply though in setting me straight.


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## StaneyWid

Infact can i just show some of my beloved pets i got from viper and vine ? That cool mathew ?


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## mstypical

StaneyWid said:


> Infact can i just show some of my beloved pets i got from viper and vine ? That cool mathew ?


Pictures never materialised did they... and to be fair, they could be pictures of any animals, from any shop. My advice to anyone thinking of using any shop, just go down (if you can) and have a look yourself, see what *you* think, everyone's opinion is different. And personally, I would never buy live animals online, I don't care how good the packaging is or how well recommended the courier comes, I just think it's cruel for vertebrate animals, and it's asking for trouble buying something you've never seen in the flesh : victory:


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## 5plusmany

skinky said:


> That certainly does make sense as a better way to keep certain animals. Im only causous of shops giving advice in the more exotic animal as a few years ago i sadly lost my male sugar glider and was worried for my female being alone so wanted to find her a friend. Made the mistake of getting the new one from a pet shop who to my disgust kept the gliders in a small glass tank complete with inside light and fed them on hamster food!!!!! Clearly they had no idea of the needs of that animal. It took 6 month before the poor thing started to stop stressing when i came in the room and another 6 before she would take food from me so as you can see i have been put off the shops although i am aware that this is probably only the case with the minority. Thanks for your reply though in setting me straight.


This is precisely why we need an accreditation scheme for pet shops selling exotics: one that is run by experienced keepers and that will carry a nationally recognised 'stamp of approval' for the good, knowledgeable and ethical sellers.


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## Pouchie

This thread is disgusting and it is well and truly against the Rules of RFUK to 'name and shame' a business like this.

Matthew should not have to come on a public forum to defend himself and offenders will be infracted.


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