# Opinions on Reptile Auctions



## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Before I start, the following discussion may be a contetious one. There will be opinions on both sides of the fence, and it is important everyone is allowed their say without fear of ridicule, so please can we keep discussions civil.
I have asked this question on another well known UK reptile keepers forum, and it went very well with views and opinions expressed.

So to the main debate,

We have probably all seen auctions on facebook, etc, where people can bid on reptiles and sometimes get a good deal.

I recently saw one, on an american group, where breeders 'donated' one or more reptiles, which were then auctioned off with all proceeds going to a nominated cause. They raised over two and a half grand!

So my question is, what is the general feeling toward online auctions of reptiles, in this case, if the proceeds go towards a benevolent fund, rather than upping the breeders profits.

What pitfalls do you see, or would need to be considered to ensure maximum welfare of the animals.

Some examples of opinions included

"whilst I dont have an issue, it is not something I would partake in, as I like to get to know the seller/buyer personally, which would not be possible in an auction"

And

"there is no difference between auctioning and selling on the classifieds" "its just a matter of where the price is set"

(they are paraphrased)

I have opened up a poll, but please feel free to leave comments and start discussion/debate but do keep it civil.


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

This is one of those issues that causes great consternation and the issue was hotly debated under the Animal Welfare Bill (now Act) with many calling for a ban. Personally I don’t really have a view either way; it is at the end of the day simply a method of vending an animal……!!

For reptiles this is a relatively new means of selling, for other sectors of companion animals such as birds, fish etc it is a long established. With the trends towards morphs I can see the logic and the potential benefit for the vendor. 

The argument that it _may_ encourage impulse purchases is not in my view a strong one, it might but then so might someone selling an animal cheep elicit such a purchase!

It will be interesting to see the debate develops……!!


----------



## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

I've only recently seen these reptile auctions, I can't see the problem really. I haven't bid on anything as there hasn't been anything that I've wanted, but I could see it being a good way of getting a bargain.

On the other hand, I suppose you can't really vet the buyer to make sure they have the knowledge for the particular animal. Then again, you can only do that to a certain extent when selling animals anyway!


----------



## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

Intersting question, I'm not entirely against it but I doubt I'd ever join in, for a start I want to see/handle the critter, talk to the seller, see how its been kept etc, don't imagine this would be to easy under auction conditions. 

I think it could cause some to impulse purchase but then that's no different to buying on this or other forums or at breeders meetings but you could get carried away & pay more than you should/the critters worth but then as you say you may get a bargain, on the whole you pays your money you takes your chance, it's down to the individual but it's just not for me.


----------



## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

To be honest I dont see it as any different to buying a snake off the classifieds on here

Myself Im a bit fussy who I buy from so I probably would not buy from an aution unless I knew the seller


----------



## Shisui uchiha (Nov 22, 2012)

How you buy the animal isn't the issue, how it's cared for is

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

I wouldnt buy or sell an animal at auction. the control has gone with auctions from both sides. I also would worry that people would use it as a method to get rid of low quality or unhealthy animals with no come back

as Duncan would say

Och noo, am oot


----------



## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Chris Newman said:


> This is one of those issues that causes great consternation and the issue was hotly debated under the Animal Welfare Bill (now Act) with many calling for a ban. Personally I don’t really have a view either way; it is at the end of the day simply a method of vending an animal……!!
> 
> For reptiles this is a relatively new means of selling, for other sectors of companion animals such as birds, fish etc it is a long established. With the trends towards morphs I can see the logic and the potential benefit for the vendor.
> 
> ...


I'm of the similar thought that impulse purchases can be made regardless of how or where the animal is sold. Meets, Pet shops, Privately online, face to face, so an online auction wouldn't necessarily increase the risk of impulse purchases.
But, it would be important, as the auction organiser, to try and mitigate any risks, or add



bampoisongirl said:


> I've only recently seen these reptile auctions, I can't see the problem really. I haven't bid on anything as there hasn't been anything that I've wanted, but I could see it being a good way of getting a bargain.
> 
> On the other hand, I suppose you can't really vet the buyer to make sure they have the knowledge for the particular animal. Then again, you can only do that to a certain extent when selling animals anyway!


Exactly, I have bought reptiles in the past, and whilst I know I am fully prepared for the animal, I have never actually been questioned about my knowledge or setups. And I have bought from a few different avenues.
Alternatively though, I have sold a few reptiles and have questioned the buyers, but there is no way of knowing 

a. That they haven't just googled an appropriate answer
b. That they actually follow the method they mention (It could just be lip service)

I have also sold a Bearded dragon before and didn't fully question the buyer. Unfortunately, this was a bad move and ended up costing me when I went back to collect the poor little bugger.

So really, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Regardless of the method of sale.



Khonsu said:


> Intersting question, I'm not entirely against it but I doubt I'd ever join in, f*or a start I want to see/handle the critter, talk to the seller, see how its been kept etc, don't imagine this would be to easy under auction conditions. *
> 
> I think it could cause some to impulse purchase but then that's no different to buying on this or other forums or at breeders meetings but you could get carried away & pay more than you should/the critters worth but then as you say you may get a bargain, on the whole you pays your money you takes your chance, it's down to the individual but it's just not for me.


That is something I don't think anyone would argue against. To be fair, if the auction was being done by someone nearby, I don't suppose there is a reason you could't go have a look and make a decision ,but I agree it would be harder. But many people buy online without viewing the animals in person, instead buying and then paying for a courier. So to them, this wouldn't make much difference.



madaboutreptiles said:


> To be honest I dont see it as any different to buying a snake off the classifieds on here
> 
> Myself Im a bit fussy who I buy from so I probably would not buy from an aution unless I knew the seller


I always knew this would be a marmite topic, though I am surprised at how few people (that have answered) are against the idea completely.



Shisui uchiha said:


> How you buy the animal isn't the issue, how it's cared for is
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Very philosophical, and very true!



sharpstrain said:


> I wouldnt buy or sell an animal at auction. the control has gone with auctions from both sides. I also would worry that people would use it as a method to get rid of low quality or unhealthy animals with no come back
> 
> as Duncan would say
> 
> ...


Again, another opinion that no one can argue with. Everyone draws their moral line in a different place, and everyone is entitled to that right. It's nice to see people willing to speak on the 'completely against' side, as it gives a fairer representation, thank you.

Although, to encourage debate, do you not feel that people will, and do, use online selling as a way to sell their low quality or unhealthy animals, anyway?

In my mind, with the way I would plan an auction, there would be comeback for any seller. There would be a rule that the seller is responsible for any refunds/replacements as per any normal sale, only it would come out of their pocket rather than the money that had been donated.
Therefore, any seller would be more wary of getting rid of that poor specimen.
Likewise, buyers would be responsible for ensuring full details of the animal upon arrival, pictures taken, etc from the moment they receive it, if there is an issue. Any seller that is proven bad, would be banned from auctioning at any future event (this is obviously theoretical and in my head, loads of details would be considered)

Ultimately though, those risks are available regardless of whether the animal was sold by auction or by classifieds, or even in a pet shop.

Thanks all for your comments, every single one is appreciated.

I did expect this to get more of a response, if I am honest, but either way, it hasn't appeared to have gone as bad as I expected.


----------



## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Why auction?

Either to get rid of surplus stock with no regard for destination

To try to get higher than the current market value

For me neither is a good thing and neither has the welfare of the animal at heart.

I wouldnt agree to buy a snake without seeing it and checking it out for myself. Of course when going to see the animal my hope is that I will come away with it and that it reaches expectations. This may involve a major journer, considerable time and expense.

I wouldnt want to travel 100 miles to view an animal and then come home and bid, in the hope that I would win and have to travel back again.

I wouldnt be keen on attending an event that was a reptile auction and I would doubt it would get licensed in any case.

so for me they are not a positive option. each to their own - but not for me


----------



## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

i went for 'I am not against the idea, but it is not something I would buy/sell on'.

i have no issue with the idea, livestock auctions have been happening for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. it really wouldnt take much to adapt the rules/principles of those for use with reptiles.

with that in mind, i have bought animals from livestock/poultry/gamebird auctions in the past and am yet to have an issue, however in all these cases the animal was 'in the flesh' in front of me. as, usually, was the seller.

i would not buy from internet auctions as i want to see what im buying before i part with my cash. its far too easy to take a flattering picture of the animal that obscures any faults it may have, or use a photo that isnt even of the animal. also at 'in the flesh' auctions, you walk away with the animal on the day, i doubt this would be the case with an internet auction.


----------



## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

I think they are ok but I would only buy from one if I had the option after winning of going to see the rep and collect it, that way if anything was wrong I could say no if it wasn't what was advertised, same as you can on ebay with a lot of things, that being said though, if I went and the rep was being very poorly cared for but was what I wanted I would probably take it anyway just to give it a better home, I know my answers contradict each other to a certain extent but just my views on this.


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

I do not like Reptile Auctions end off but that is just my personal opinion.

If I buy a reptile I want to give it a good health check first and with auctions this is not possible. Also, have heard a few times where reptiles have been bought in Auctions(mainly from the States) that Crypto has been brought into a healthy collection and wiped it out.


----------



## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

kato said:


> If I buy a reptile I want to give it a good health check first and with auctions this is not possible. Also, have heard a few times where reptiles have been bought in Auctions(mainly from the States) that Crypto has been brought into a healthy collection and wiped it out.


Not that I disagree with the sentiment Simon (I'm also not so comfortable with auctions for the same reasons), however the quoted part of the text gives me some trouble.

Given the difficulty of successfully testing for crypto, how would buying from an auction be any different from viewing an animal from a private sell, and checking it over? If when you purchase an animal, you do not take appropriate precautions relating to quarantine and disease spread, then this cannot be seen as a fault of the sale method.

Admittedly, auctions would pose an increased risk that the animal is in reduced health (as opposed to seeing the animal first), but I think people who buy animals over the internet based on photos run the same risks. At the end of the day, you are asking for problems if you do not view before you buy, and auctions would be difficult to police.

Andy


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

I don't have issues with buying from an auction. If the animal is not as described, you can always refuse to go through with the transaction. For this reason, I would always want to pick the animal up in person.


----------



## Toggsy (Jul 7, 2012)

sharpstrain said:


> I also would worry that people would use it as a method to get rid of low quality or unhealthy animals with no come back
> 
> as Duncan would say
> 
> ...


Well raised point and I agree totally
I know it's not the same but just as good an example just look at car auctions traders selling on dodgy cars has been rife for years.


----------



## Hollybob (Dec 9, 2013)

I wouldn't ever buy from an auction and, if I were a vendor, I would never sell via one.

As someone has previously pointed out, these kinds of auctions give neither the seller or buyer a chance to vet each other.

A seller should at least gauge some knowledge or at least be able to advice the buyer on how to care for the animal. The buyer should be able to handle the animal and take a proper look at the state of it.
Only so much can be gleaned from pictures and online descriptions.

More than anything, I find the mentality of online auctions to be a negative point. Competition leads to spontaneity which has no place in the purchase that should be so carefully considered. Also, the 'gotta get a bargain' angle leads people to make snap judgements that they might not really be ready for. My dad went onto ebay looking to buy a head torch...he bought a sofa and a set of candlesticks...

My main issue is with the mentality of the whole thing.


----------



## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

I dont think they are legally binding so if either party decides they are not happy they can refuse. 

I would buy from an auction on the condition of being able to see it before paying. I wouldnt buy from Bob Clarks for example because I couldnt see it. And on the other hand I would like to think that people selling would ask the buyer a few questions first before finishing the deal. Maybe thats me be hopeful but thats what I would like to think.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

If you have an online Auction, then the animal being sold is an item for sale to the highest bidder. 

This is no different to a market and it is illegal to sell live animals at a market. The fact that sites such as eBay do not allow live animals to be sold through their online auctions is a bit of a clue here. If it were legal and/or ethical to do it, they would be doing it. Online auctions seem to me to be a way to squeeze around the murky grey areas of the law. 

The major drawback of them from a breeders point of view is that once a sale is made, both parties are legally obliged to carry the sale through to it's conclusion. If it turns out that some muppet who has no idea how to look after what they have just bought ( which the breeder would most likely have picked up on in a face to face sale ) puts in the highest bid then the animal is sold and the breeder is obliged to hand it over.


----------

