# Rat Alternatives



## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

So, I'm looking at breeding some more home feed for royals, I know rats would be easiest but I don't particularly like rats.

I like hamsters, but so far have only kept Robo's, and size wise these obviously aren't appropriate for adult royals.

For about 10 adult royals, what would be best.

A balance between decent sized litters so I don't need tonnes of females, and big enough prey size, that doesn't take forever to get to right size. 

I'm thinking gerbils? Or a mouse species?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

What about persian or shaws jirds? They get a bit bigger than gerbils, not too sure how easier they are to convince to breed though.


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## Dnuk (Dec 11, 2012)

Look into Multimammates, It all depends on the snakes though, BReeding multi's is very easy, They are very clean and have no smell. 

They can reach weights of 70g's No problem (at about 18 - 20 weeks) and more if you get the setup going right for growing on. If you can spend some time letting them grow on, They will and do reach 90g easy, Largest ive seen was 144g but it was 13 months old. 

1 breeding group of Multis say a 1:3 (some will say go more) will supply you with 3 litters per female (minimum) can be more, but not worth abusing them imo. Each litter can consist of anything from 6 to 20+

They do take alittle longer to grow on, however the are a natural food source for royals, and just so easy to look after. 

here is my current setup.... 










Bare in mind, Mine is much larger than you would probably ever need too, I have now 14 groups of 1:3 and around 30 in grow on tubs (bottom) and about 20 young down, with about 7 pregnant females.


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

These are very cool.  I've also been considering fancy mice. I'd like something for whom the adults will be pets, and it just so happens they will produce a few litters to suppliment the feeding costs. : victory:



Drayvan said:


> What about persian or shaws jirds? They get a bit bigger than gerbils, not too sure how easier they are to convince to breed though.



I will look into that today. Also been considering fancy mice.
So do you only breed your females three times? Or three times a year? :/ How often do you replace your females?
How many does that set-up produce??? :gasp:
Can I keep the male in with 3 girls year round, or better to separate him out and introduce for breeding only? Thanks you! : victory:



Dnuk said:


> Look into Multimammates, It all depends on the snakes though, BReeding multi's is very easy, They are very clean and have no smell.
> 
> They can reach weights of 70g's No problem (at about 18 - 20 weeks) and more if you get the setup going right for growing on. If you can spend some time letting them grow on, They will and do reach 90g easy, Largest ive seen was 144g but it was 13 months old.
> 
> ...


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## Dnuk (Dec 11, 2012)

polaris2582 said:


> How many does that set-up produce??? :gasp:
> Can I keep the male in with 3 girls year round, or better to separate him out and introduce for breeding only? Thanks you! : victory:


I am currently still setting up, That setup will take another 2 rows which is another 10 tubs. 

I haven't yet got it up and running fully but i suspect i will be able to produce quite a lot! (i would say a minimum of 300 per month) (no i dont have that many snakes lol) 

How im running mine is allowing each female to have 3 litters (maybe 4) then allow them to break/row as feeders. Ive got track of all blood lines, i know what is where etc, So i can avoid inbreeding quite easily i have 12 blood lines in total in here. Some will possibly go more for pets, as i have some very nice colours. 

You can leave the male in with 3 females and he will just hump away, He can be left in with you and will not breed to them (unless sexual maturity is reached 10 - 12 weeks), They are communal, So females will look after each females young. (they can be cannibalistic, but changes are slim) 

I am finding the best way is to introduce the breeding group and grow them to sexual maturity and leave them to it. 

They would happily go more than 3 litters, but i like to be fair and not just use them as breeding machines. They are pregnant about 25 days, and cant be missed when they are.


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## Dnuk (Dec 11, 2012)

forgot to add, You can leave the male in year round, but he will keep breeding the females. It would be best to try source males from around you that are a different blood line, and breed that to the young they produced. 

Split the original male/Females after 3 - 4 litters (or more if you wanted)


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

Dnuk said:


> I am currently still setting up, That setup will take another 2 rows which is another 10 tubs.
> 
> I haven't yet got it up and running fully but i suspect i will be able to produce quite a lot! (i would say a minimum of 300 per month) (no i dont have that many snakes lol)
> 
> ...




These sound great. Any chance you'd be able to send me some pics of your pet style ones?.  I want the adults to be mostly pets, with offspring being a plus. I particularly like the red ones. Are these guys good as pets? And handle-able? 
Could I then just keep back three females when I feel the need to replace the mums, and get a new male?


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## Dnuk (Dec 11, 2012)

Will go grab some of the ones im holding as pets now, 

and yes, Exactly that, Keep 3 female young, Grow males on (and some females) and bring in new males. 

Though, You can Line breed if required, by putting male offsping to the females, This is not inbreeding, can be done once. Inbreeding is sibling to siblin. 

Pics coming in next 15 mins


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

Dnuk said:


> Will go grab some of the ones im holding as pets now,
> 
> and yes, Exactly that, Keep 3 female young, Grow males on (and some females) and bring in new males.
> 
> ...


You sir, are a hero : victory:


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## Dnuk (Dec 11, 2012)

Here we are, A few of the harder to come by ones at first (solid colours) Some ive not seen many of at all. 

These are all unrelated, and currently growing on for breeding already in there groups. 



















All white... Red eye. Some say these are evil, but mine dont seem to be. 










Badgers in various colours (my favourite) 



















Then there is a pregnant female... due any day now, Cant miss the little fatty. 










and a few random ones, for various. (excuse some of the mess, it is clean out day tomorrow!)



















Yes this is now there bed.... 




















Hope there is enough there for you, Some of the better ones. 

Food wise, Something i will add, I feed them quite a mix. I get 20kg of herby rabbit food, 20kg crunchy 10kg corn mix it all together and away they go, They also get once a fortnight a few dog buscuits as a treat, mid week they get Veg (carrots mainly) 

I do have some nippy ones, Mainly when pregnant/nesting, but other than that from young, can quite easily be handled. 

Sorry, Long post :lol2:


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

Dnuk said:


> Here we are, A few of the harder to come by ones at first (solid colours) Some ive not seen many of at all.
> 
> These are all unrelated, and currently growing on for breeding already in there groups.
> 
> ...



I'm going to PM you  It's being weird though, in case it takes ages. I keep timing out... :bash:


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## cornsnakeboy (Feb 17, 2012)

you say solid colors are harder to come by ? my multis produce mostly solid colored babies


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Great set ups.. Multis are by far the best IMO, I bred mice rat's and multi's.. The rats escaped into the shed.. Lol.. Had to catch em all!!! Mice, a male went cannibal.. And multi's were brilliant.. No problems.. Lol.. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## konmac (Jun 23, 2012)

1. .Syrian hamster 2 months old are 150-180 gram with good diet. ​ 2. Live essentially in separate cages because fighting wildy between them.​ 3. Until 2 months old they are not trapped. ​ 4. by 1,5 months female they breeding. ​ 5. it is the most efficient and productive rodent. Gadfly per 4 days, pregnancy 16 days. ​ 6. it is very beautifully for food of snakes


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## koyotee3 (Aug 8, 2009)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...assifieds/914461-tame-multimmates-multis.html:2thumb:http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/food-classifieds/927986-multi-feeders-prices.html,,,,,also have now blacks and pure whites black eyed,,silver blues,,and all the common ones like augoti selfs,,tanned,,badgers,,pieds,,chocolates,,brown,,thanks temps have to be right for them to breed no good in the cold,,make a pet as something between rat and mouse not as clever or friendly as a rat but more interactive than a mouse...


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## kenobi (Sep 15, 2008)

i vote multis
i have 3 breeding groups of 1:4
producing 50-70 multis per cycle per group

as for size, i grow them onto approx 60gsm in 12-15weeks
biggest i have is a giant female weighing in at 214gms
big females averaging around 160-170gms

as previously stated, royals love them, they have good sized litters and make virtually no smell


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