# Wanted: Cotton Top Tamarins



## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

Hi, I am a primate keeper and looking to buy a pair of Cotton Top Tamarins.

Must have correct A10 and be micro chipped. Preferably they would also be parent reared and have carried. 

I'm happy to buy from 2 breeders. Please PM me if you have any suitable either now or in the future.

Family troops will also be considered.

Cheers.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Chamelian said:


> Hi, I am a primate keeper and looking to buy a pair of Cotton Top Tamarins.
> 
> Must have correct A10 and be micro chipped. Preferably they would also be parent reared and have carried.
> 
> ...


They must be microchiped to have A10
Its how they identify whos A10 it is.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> They must be microchiped to have A10
> Its how they identify whos A10 it is.


They are like gold dust.
Most for sale seem bit too old.
Were a pair few weeks back at ten years.
Younger ones are usually booked for new blood.
Dont think thrres many on here keep them.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> They must be microchiped to have A10
> Its how they identify whos A10 it is.


Indeed! Should have said microchipped with A10s.




PETERAROBERTSON said:


> They are like gold dust.
> Most for sale seem bit too old.
> Were a pair few weeks back at ten years.
> Younger ones are usually booked for new blood.
> Dont think thrres many on here keep them.



I'm in no hurry. Wouldn't want an old pair. If any come along though please let me know. 

Both red bellied females are rugby ball shaped now. Sure they will pop in the next few weeks. Fingers crossed all goes well!


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Do you guys not need cities aproval for a10 species.
I had to for mine.
Thought it was there way of keeping track.
Maybe down to areas.
But all mine needed aproval
And my collegues.
Think they pick on us scotts.lol


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Do you guys not need cities aproval for a10 species.
> I had to for mine.
> Thought it was there way of keeping track.
> Maybe down to areas.
> ...


From speaking to CITES my understanding is as long as each animal has an A10 which corresponds, as you say, to the microchip number in the animal and the A10 certificate is a Species Specific Certificate not a Transaction Specific Certificate then in theory we don't need to let them know when we buy an Appendix A animal and it is perfectly legal to own them. The Species Specific Certificate is issued only once and it should stay with the animal throughout its life regardless of how many owners it has. 

However they did say that I could phone them when I see the certificates and they would check they were OK and legit before I buy (which obviously I would do). Buying a microchip reader isn't too expensive so checking the microchip corresponds to the certificate is easily done.

Obviously if the animals breed then each offspring need to be registered by the current owners so that they too have their own A10.

That is my understanding anyway. Let me know if I am wrong.

Is it any different for you in Scotland then? Do you need to get inspected or get permission before you buy?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Chamelian said:


> From speaking to CITES my understanding is as long as each animal has an A10 which corresponds, as you say, to the microchip number in the animal and the A10 certificate is a Species Specific Certificate not a Transaction Specific Certificate then in theory we don't need to let them know when we buy an Appendix A animal and it is perfectly legal to own them. The Species Specific Certificate is issued only once and it should stay with the animal throughout its life regardless of how many owners it has.
> 
> However they did say that I could phone them when I see the certificates and they would check they were OK and legit before I buy (which obviously I would do). Buying a microchip reader isn't too expensive so checking the microchip corresponds to the certificate is easily done.
> 
> ...


We had to apply for permission.
Vetted.
You dont need a10 for babies unless they are moving on.
They are regarded bt defra as pets.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> We had to apply for permission.
> Vetted.
> You dont need a10 for babies unless they are moving on.
> They are regarded bt defra as pets.


OK will look into it further then and see if it's the same in England. Knew about not needing A10 if youngsters are never sold. Also if you don't sell and just give away (with no benefits in kind) you also don't need A10 apparently. As far as I was aware the A10s are to proove the legality of how they were obtained i.e. captive bred or wild caught.

Good to find out now as Cotton Tops will not be the only Appendix A primates I hope to keep! Thanks for your insight.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

You need a10 for anything that moves on.
Gifting doesnt apply.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Thrres nought to look into.
Wait and get them first.
Defra and cities will give a diff answer with each person you talj to.

Awaiting a10 for one of our geoldii.
Slow.
Unhelpfull.
But get thrre in the end.
I think it should be monitired better.
The thought of endangered going to people with little or no experiance.
Thats concrvation for you.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> You need a10 for anything that moves on.
> Gifting doesnt apply.


Just reading their own guidelines. See points 3, 4 and 12 in the link below.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/cites-gn2.pdf






PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Thrres nought to look into.
> Wait and get them first.
> Defra and cities will give a diff answer with each person you talj to.
> 
> ...


Totally agree it should be monitored better as should anyone keeping primates, regardless of how endangered the species is.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Thrres nought to look into.
> Wait and get them first.
> Defra and cities will give a diff answer with each person you talj to.


Luckily I took down the name of the person I spoke to!


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Chamelian said:


> Just reading their own guidelines. See points 3, 4 and 12 in the link below.
> 
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/cites-gn2.pdf
> 
> ...



Took cotton top female from my troop down south a few weeks ago.
I got a10 through then photicopied and sent back.
If it moves on the a10 should go bk.
The copy gets marked up as for records only.
This only gets re aplied for if changing name.
Which they only do for comertial.
Zoos etc.
But the gifting and not needing a10 with primates is not correct.
But theres loads that go with original paperwork.
Think its bull.
They should all re apply so as thrres some sort of record.
But i guess that would meen doing a bit work.
But i dont know everything.
But i do know what i do and have done for quite a long time now.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Took cotton top female from my troop down south a few weeks ago.
> I got a10 through then photicopied and sent back.
> If it moves on the a10 should go bk.
> The copy gets marked up as for records only.
> ...


I know who your female went to and seen photos of her - she's very nice. But I'm confused. If you sent the A10 back did you tell them who the new owner is? If not the new owner has no proof that the animal is legal or his!

Non of this is in the 2011 guidelines. I will speak to them again to clarify. Not saying your wrong but I need to know for my own peace of mind.

The protocol won't be any different for any other animal classed as Appendix A on CITIES so if anyone else has personal experience of A10s please let me know if these guidelines are correct or not.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Its what it says mate
Guidelines.
The copy of the a10 with for records only is proof.
It shows its the same animal
Proof its yours is not the csse.
We ss private breeders are looked on as them being pets.
Only comertial or public viewing or charging to see will change a10 to your name.
But you can get a pet passport kind of thing.
85 quid.lol
Its just how they work.
All my a10 are still in the name of whrre they came from.
And will stay that way.
But good luck in your headache.lol
Yea shes a nice girl.
Mum and dad best pair ive seen for manny years.
Really big.


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## Chamelian (Mar 11, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> But good luck in your headache.lol


Thanks. I've got one now. Where are those pills!!!


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