# New Rat Pup



## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

So, my fiancee had to have a baby rat today. She gave me that look and I bought her one. Well, the first one bought the farm before we even made it home. The second made it home. The problem is, it will not eat. We have some kitten formula and tried it in a syringe, a bowel, and even soaked a piece of bread in it. How can I get him to eat? Any help will be appreciated.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Do you know how old it is???

It might need a while to settle down. Rats are very communal animals and keeping one on its own is not a good idea, so he's maybe a bit upset being on his own. Having said that if he's from the same litter as the one that died on its way home, then he could be carrying an infection.


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> Do you know how old it is???
> 
> It might need a while to settle down. Rats are very communal animals and keeping one on its own is not a good idea, so he's maybe a bit upset being on his own. Having said that if he's from the same litter as the one that died on its way home, then he could be carrying an infection.


The one on the way home I think suffocated. The pet store stapled the bag shut and it was really hot today. When we got the second one, he made it home fine. So, I don't think it is a disease. He is really young. He does not even have his eyes open yet. The pet store said to syringe feed him until he is old enough to eat solid food, but he does not want the syringe. And he will not drink out of a saucer either.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

If I was a cynic I'd think this was a troll but as it's supposed to be from the US anything is possible??????


So presuming this is a 'real' thread.....if the itten has it's eyes still closed it is less than 10 days old and you have very little chance of rearing it.
If you obught it as feeder food then there's no harm in it dying and theother one wasnt' wasted I hope?

To be honset I'd dispose of the surviving one and buy from a good breeder who will sell you a pair of healthy kittens old enough to leave their mother!


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

saxon said:


> If I was a cynic I'd think this was a troll but as it's supposed to be from the US anything is possible??????
> 
> 
> So presuming this is a 'real' thread.....if the itten has it's eyes still closed it is less than 10 days old and you have very little chance of rearing it.
> ...


I do hope you know we are talking about rats, which are referred to as PUPS, not kittens. Also, ENGLISH CITIZEN, thank you VERY MUCH. Save the nasty remarks for others, please. Also, drop condescending attitude, as it is not appreciated. No, I will not DISPOSE of the surviving one. I purchased it for a REASON, and I do not believe in DISPOSING of living creatures. And this thread is now null and void because I already figured out what to do to get him to eat.

My fiance, who is usually the one posting, simply likes to make sure he is covering all bases when it comes to animals, and there is no need for the attitude when he's trying not to make a mistake. Any questions? Because this English woman would be happy to answer in the same condescending manner as you.


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## Samanthaa (Sep 21, 2009)

It doesnt have its eyes open and you got it from a pet shop?!
It not having its eyes open means it only around 10 days old max
It needs to be with its mother!! 
It takes a lot of work to keep a pup that young alive..

I just saw in your last post that you got it to eat? may I ask how?


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Samanthaa said:


> It doesnt have its eyes open and you got it from a pet shop?!
> It not having its eyes open means it only around 10 days old max
> It needs to be with its mother!!
> It takes a lot of work to keep a pup that young alive..
> ...


It was being sold as a feeder, so we only paid like $2.50 for it, that is why it is so young. We soaked some bread in kitten formula and he took to it. Plus we just got him to go potty, so we are hoping it will grow up big and strong.


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## Samanthaa (Sep 21, 2009)

HDreptiles said:


> It was being sold as a feeder, so we only paid like $2.50 for it, that is why it is so young. We soaked some bread in kitten formula and he took to it. Plus we just got him to go potty, so we are hoping it will grow up big and strong.


Well, all I can say is good luck to him and you


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Samanthaa said:


> Well, all I can say is good luck to him and you


Thank you very much.:2thumb:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Baby rats are called kittens, actually. I honestly can't believe you've bought , what sounds like, a feeder rat from a pet shop to try and handrear. It isn't easy. But good luck. When I've HAD to handrear (never by choice), I've used a mix of (equal parts) evaporated milk, live yogurt, and boiled water, then added a bit of honey to sweeten and a drop of baby vitamins. This works well. Much better than powdered puppy/kitten milks. Also, rats need companionship of their own kind, so you're going to need to get him/her a friend, as well.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Jen's right - that's a good mix to feed any very young baby animal - although I see you've managed to get it eating. I tend to use full fat goats milks for handrearing any baby animals, but evaporated milk is good too.

However, I have to say that if you are an English woman, then you would know that you will *never* buy a live 10 day old baby _anything_ in a pet shop in England, because it is against the law! 

So we did assume that, at the very least, you had bought a 6 week old rat baby.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

HDreptiles said:


> I do hope you know we are talking about rats, which are referred to as PUPS, not kittens. Also, ENGLISH CITIZEN, thank you VERY MUCH. Save the nasty remarks for others, please. Also, drop condescending attitude, as it is not appreciated. No, I will not DISPOSE of the surviving one. I purchased it for a REASON, and I do not believe in DISPOSING of living creatures. And this thread is now null and void because I already figured out what to do to get him to eat.
> 
> My fiance, who is usually the one posting, simply likes to make sure he is covering all bases when it comes to animals, and there is no need for the attitude when he's trying not to make a mistake. Any questions? Because this English woman would be happy to answer in the same condescending manner as you.


*As has been pointed out your initial post did not say you had bought a 'feeder' rat to try and hand rear. Had you said this then we would have been aware as to why it was so young!*
*We get so many 'tit's', US and UK, on here that your original post stunk of stupid young kid trying to cause a fluster!*



HDreptiles said:


> It was being sold as a feeder, so we only paid like $2.50 for it, that is why it is so young. We soaked some bread in kitten formula and he took to it. Plus we just got him to go potty, so we are hoping it will grow up big and strong.


*See had you said this in your original post we would have understaood what you were on about.......as for him growing big and strong it will be unlikely simply because of his breeding. Farm bred feeder rats are rarely expected to be 'big and strong' even when they are fully grown.*

*Good luck in you mission to hand rear him but I'm sorry to say without a great deal of experience in handrearing 'anything' a rat kitten so young is one of the most difficult I would say!*

*Considering you are British I would think you would know that we would look on the original post as a troll on the forum as animals this age are not sold as pets here.... *
*Heck even an American would know that I'm almost sure......I'll ask my son-in-law what he thinks of it?*


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## kat134 (Oct 19, 2008)

If you wanted a pet rat, why did you buy one that was intended as a breeder/food? Why not go to a reputable pet shop and buy one from there that was intended as a pet? 

I understand that you're trying to be kind to it and feed it/raise it but a kitten that young should not be away from it's mother - it's cruel. In some ways it may just have been better off being fed to something, it would save it the loneliness and pain that it's going through now. 

Also, why did you let them staple the bag up? Did you not care that they might not be able to breathe? especially if it was a hot day like you said...


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Nor have the sense to open it once out of the shop..............DOH!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*is an American*  And even before I moved to the UK with the UK's rules, regulations, and laws, I never would have bought a 10 day old rat kitten to try and handrear.


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Wow. All I asked for was help. I did not ask to be chastised about my pet buying habits. So far he is doing well. He is eating, going to the bathroom, and very active. If you are going to give me some advice, thank you, if you are going to tear me a new one, don't bother. I am not going to listen to people say "Get rid of it and get an older one." I already have it and I am going to give it the best start I can. So far he is doing well. If you want to berate me, save your strength for someone who is truly messing around with something they should not have. I am not an idiot and have had pet rodents for most of my life. This was a feeder rat that struck my fiancee's heart for whatever reason, so we got it. I have been looking up care sheets and directions on how to rear it and am doing good so far. When he is a bit older, we are going to get him some friends and a nice beg enclosure. I really do know what I am doing. If I ask for help, then that is what I want, not to be yelled at about buying a "sub-par" animal. No animal, in my eyes, is sub-par.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Why would this person buy a baby rat then join a* reptile* forum for advice.
Now I know he's in the States and they do strange things, but surely a normal person with this problem would look for help on a *rodent* forum !
At least in the UK no one would be daft enough to sell a rat of that age.
To me it reads like someone attention seeking, being a troll.
Oh and my supplier sells rat pups, although I'd still buy them if they were caled rat kittens and the quatity / price was right :2thumb:


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Why would this person buy a baby rat then join a* reptile* forum for advice.
> Now I know he's in the States and they do strange things, but surely a normal person with this problem would look for help on a *rodent* forum !
> At least in the UK no one would be daft enough to sell a rat of that age.
> To me it reads like someone attention seeking, being a troll.
> Oh and my supplier sells rat pups, although I'd still buy them if they were caled rat kittens and the quatity / price was right :2thumb:


I was already part of this forum when I purchased him the other day. I saw a thread titled "Other Pets and Exotics", so I asked for some help. I am not an attention seeker. It was being sold as a feeder and my fiancee gave me the look that she knows I can not say no to. So I got it for her. I figured someone on here would have some experience and I was just trying to reach out for some help. If you don't have any to give, then shut up and leave me alone. I am not looking to be chastised like a little child. If you people only want to talk reptiles, then why are there topics on here that has nothing to do with them? A little food for thought for all you rude idiots out there.


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

I hope you understand just how high the mortality rate is for rat pups that young, even if they've been eating and pottying. Had a rat pup, about 7 days old, get brought into my work as someone's cat had brought it into the house. She did fine for about 2 days, then crashed over the course of a couple hours.

How are you keeping it warm? How often are you feeding it?


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

SpiritSerpents said:


> I hope you understand just how high the mortality rate is for rat pups that young, even if they've been eating and pottying. Had a rat pup, about 7 days old, get brought into my work as someone's cat had brought it into the house. She did fine for about 2 days, then crashed over the course of a couple hours.
> 
> How are you keeping it warm? How often are you feeding it?


We are feeding it every couple of hours. And ATM, he is in a plastic critter keeper on top of one of my reptile enclosures next to the heat lamp. Not to mention it has been in the high 70's in our room where he is. The pet store guy told us we had a 50/50 shot with him, so I get that. I am just going to do the best I can with him and hope for the best. I did go find some care sheets specifically for a baby rat, and it verified everything the pet store people told us. I think he is off to a good start, but I still understand that the odds are against us for a while. (Sorry if I sound rude, this thread is quickly becoming the bane of my existence and almost made me leave this forum for good earlier.)


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

50/50 is optomistic. It's a bit more like a 10% chance.


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

SpiritSerpents said:


> 50/50 is optomistic. It's a bit more like a 10% chance.


I'm a glass-is-half-full kinda guy.:2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You really shouldn't take what people say on here so personally!

It's a forum for discussions, it's not a help line as such. Everyone has their own ideas and everyone will put forward those ideas - that's democracy and you don't need me to tell you that everyone will not agree. Also with the written word there's no inflection to tell you whether what is being written is being written in a critical way or in a helpful way.

I thought we were dealing with a 6 week old baby not a 10 day old one, but I totally understand where your fiance was coming from in wanting to save at least one of them. I work at a wildlife sanctuary where we take in orphaned and injured wildlife and most of them come with a 10-20% chance of survival, but we try our damndest to save them. Our motto is "Saving just one animal will not make a difference to the world, but it will make the world of difference to that one animal" and think you could say that if you succeed with this little kitten, then you've made a world of difference to him.

I'm a firm believer in "where there's life there's hope" and I really hope you can successfully rear this kitten, but at least if you fail you knew when you started what the odds were - 50/50 is very optimistic at this early stage. I just think it's a shame you didn't buy 2 together so they would grow up with each other for company and have a sibling to cuddle up to. I worry that if you wait until he's older before getting him friends he won't know how to react around them because of his solitary life.

But I wish you well and I hope you do update us with his progress if he makes it.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I did handrear two wild rat kittens from about that age (I estimated their age to be about 10 days old when they got here) and that milk mix I posted worked really well with them. They readily took it, whereas they faught with others. I do wish you the best of luck and not once did I say that I don't think you should try now that you have him, but I do think you should have really thought about what you were attempting even before getting the first one. One little suggestion, though, I'd get a couple of young (but older than him) kittens now (or at the very latest as soon as his eyes open), so he grows to know he's a rat. It would be pretty crap for him if he never realised this fact and when you got him friends in the future, he didn't know how to interact with them. I was lucky with my two wild ones, since there was two of them. Unfortunately, they were brother and sister, so had to be separated, but they each got fancy rat friends once they were ready to be separated from eachother. I've still got the female, as well, living quite happily with my fancy girlies


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Feorag, this is not a rescue. He simply took two unweaned rats from their mother because he choose too.

HDreptiles, Sorry if you think people are rude idiots!
It is simply that what you have done is illegal and irresponsible in the UK.
I'm well aware you are in the states but that does not mean what you have done is morally right.
Here the person that sold you the unweaned rat would be prosecuted under the animal cruelty laws.
You as the buyer, taking it from its mother when there was no need, are being cruel and irresponsible.
Your comment "my fiancée gave me the look that she knows I can not say no to" shows how immature and irresponsible you truly are. 
You would not need to "reach out for help" as you put it, had you simply left the rat with its mother. 
Your comment " I am not looking to be chastised like a little child." Had you acted responsibly you would not feel you were being chastised like a little child.
Pet ownership is about taking responsibility in providing for another living thing. However in this case you took two young unweaned rats from their mother, when there was no need, simply to pander to your fiancée and boost you ever growing ego. 
Idiot, yes me thinks you are :devil:
We welcome comments and input about none reptile related matters. But when someone is being cruel to animals then they will attract some none favourable comments. You brought this on yourself but it is the poor rats that have truly suffered, one suffocated in a bag!
As for your later threat to leave the forum,:2thumb:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I have worked in a pet shop in Texas that sold live food for snakes. We had several lactating does that would get sold after caring for several "batches" of babies and would have deliveries of various sized un-weaned mice and rats each week and the lactating doe rats we had would care for them. Being an animal lover, it was horrible. So, REALLY, the OP probably didn't take the babies from their mother, but it's still a pretty selfish thing to do. At least the doe they were with could raise them (if they managed to get past the nursing stage, of course) and teach them to be rats.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Feorag, this is not a rescue. He simply took two unweaned rats from their mother because he choose too.
> 
> HDreptiles, Sorry if you think people are rude idiots!
> It is simply that what you have done is illegal and irresponsible in the UK.
> ...


I hear what you are saying - I know it's not a 'rescue' - if it had been a rescue they would have taken all the kittens and they didn't - they chose one, lost it and went back and chose another - I don't understand that logic either, but it's done now. 

And I did point out to the lady in question who wanted the pup that if she's English she would know that she wouldn't be able to buy anything that young in a pet shop in England, so she should know that. 

However, the damage is done and they've taken the kitten and are trying to rear it.

I just hope if they don't succeed they don't go back and get another one!


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok, first, the rat we got was already separated from their mother. We did not take it away from her. They were in a little container by themselves marked feeders. I am not a cradle robber in that aspect. As for not selling them that young in the UK, I am in America, so there is nothing that can be done on that front. If this does not succeed, then we will not go get another one, we will get a trio of older ones that can be separated from their mother. And as soon as his eyes open, we will get some friends for him. I am not going to starve him of rat company. I am not a cruel man, and I know the responsibility that goes with taking care of a pet. I take great care of my animals and I am going to do the same for this one. I would appreciate it if you would kindly go berate someone else. I am talking to you SnakeBreeder. Those of you who offered help, thank you. I do appreciate it. And when it grows up, I will update you all to its progress.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

That pet shop sounds horrible  How do they expect their feeder babies to actually stay alive long enough to be bought for food if they've not got a "mother" to feed them?  What a cruel way to die (and I am definitely not having a go at you about that)....


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I totally agree with that! Poor babies! :sad:

I'm so glad that we have laws preventing this from happening over here!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

The last thing you want to do at the moment is bring in another baby rat, even as his eyes open. The risk of infection in a rat not being fed by mum will be increased, just as it would be at weaning time if he'd been left behind.

Ideally, you'd find someone with a 10 day old litter who he could be fostered by. I presume you've already looked at all other pet shops, breeders and rescues in the area to see if they have a mum who could foster him, before you attempted to start hand rearing?


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

OK. There have been a lot of hostilities in this thread due to lack of info and a few other things. I would like to apologize for my part in all of that. I really should have thought it through before I did what I did. So, again, I am sorry.

On to the rat pup. He is doing well. His eyes opened the other day and he is eating like a champ and going potty on his own. We have been giving him bread soaked in kitten formula. His cage is sitting on top of my skink cage next to the heat lamp so one end of his cage is warm. We will be getting him a more permanent home in a couple of weeks. We also purchased to healthy, male, 5 week old rats today for company for him and will be introducing him to them slowly over the next couple of weeks. Here he is so far. His name is Frankie.










Thank you to those who offered help and advice and I am sorry to those I insulted.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Aw, he's gorgeous, bless him! :flrt:

So glad you've managed to keep him going and have got him some friends. Obviously you don't need me to tell you to take introductions very slowly. : victory:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

He's lovely! Well done for getting him to where he is  It looks like he's being kept on wood shavings (I could be wrong, though)... If that's the case, best move him on to a paper or cardboard based bedding. The phenols in most woods readily available as animal substrate can really irritate a rat's sensitive respiratory system.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Also forgot to mention that you have sexed all 3 and are confident about them being the same sex before you introduce them???

I'm sure you have, but just a thought?


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> Aw, he's gorgeous, bless him! :flrt:
> 
> So glad you've managed to keep him going and have got him some friends. Obviously you don't need me to tell you to take introductions very slowly. : victory:


Thank you very much. I figure over the next couple of weeks, I will let him go play with the other guys for a few hours a day under close supervision, but he will still sleep in his own cage until he is a little older.



Amalthea said:


> He's lovely! Well done for getting him to where he is  It looks like he's being kept on wood shavings (I could be wrong, though)... If that's the case, best move him on to a paper or cardboard based bedding. The phenols in most woods readily available as animal substrate can really irritate a rat's sensitive respiratory system.


They are pine shavings. But if it would be better, I could put him on paper towel.



feorag said:


> Also forgot to mention that you have sexed all 3 and are confident about them being the same sex before you introduce them???
> 
> I'm sure you have, but just a thought?


I am 99% sure they are all males. If that is not the case, I will have to figure something out.

I am already planning a custom built cage for these guys. If it turns out the one is a female, I will have to make 2 and adjust accordingly.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, paper towel is much better.... Don't use pine shavings for any of your rats. You can get paper cat litters or Carefresh. Or if you want to stick to a wood substrate, aspen is alright. All are available in the US


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Amalthea said:


> Yeah, paper towel is much better.... Don't use pine shavings for any of your rats. You can get paper cat litters or Carefresh. Or if you want to stick to a wood substrate, aspen is alright. All are available in the US


Thank you. I will get aspen instead. I am planning a trip to the pet store tomorrow for some supplies and some good food. Thanks for the info.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

HDreptiles said:


> Thank you very much. I figure over the next couple of weeks, I will let him go play with the other guys for a few hours a day under close supervision, but he will still sleep in his own cage until he is a little older.
> 
> I am 99% sure they are all males. If that is not the case, I will have to figure something out.
> 
> I am already planning a custom built cage for these guys. If it turns out the one is a female, I will have to make 2 and adjust accordingly.


You know, presumably, that male rats don't have nipples, so if you can't find any nipples, then you've got 3 males - if you find any nipples you haven't. Your older boys should be developing gigantic testaklees! :lol: by now.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You're welcome  Going by the pic you posted of this little'un, he looks male. But if you are unsure, you can post pics of their bellies and nether regions (*LOL*) and we can confirm for ya


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> You know, presumably, that male rats don't have nipples, so if you can't find any nipples, then you've got 3 males - if you find any nipples you haven't. Your older boys should be developing gigantic testaklees! :lol: by now.


One is a male for sure. The other one I think is, but I would have to look again.



Amalthea said:


> You're welcome  Going by the pic you posted of this little'un, he looks male. But if you are unsure, you can post pics of their bellies and nether regions (*LOL*) and we can confirm for ya


Thank you. If it comes to that, I will be doing it for sure.

What do you guys think of a 3'w x 2'd x 2'h enclosure for 3 males? I will be providing some levels and climbing opportunities for them for sure. And toys.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Here's a link to a rat cage calculator Fancy Rats | Information | | Cage Calculator

If you put your proposed measurements in it will tell you if the cage will be big enough for them, but that sounds a great size for 3 rats.

As I understand it, boys tend to play on the floor more than girls, so floor space is important, whereas girls tend to climb a lot and need more height.


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> Here's a link to a rat cage calculator Fancy Rats | Information | | Cage Calculator
> 
> If you put your proposed measurements in it will tell you if the cage will be big enough for them, but that sounds a great size for 3 rats.
> 
> As I understand it, boys tend to play on the floor more than girls, so floor space is important, whereas girls tend to climb a lot and need more height.


Thanks for the link. The calculator says it will house 6 rats. I think that will work.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

My cage is 31.5" long, 19.5" deep and 33" high and my 4 bucks are fine in there.


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

I am also thinking of doing a 2' square and seeing how that goes. I have plans to make a 4'x2'x2' terrarium for my beardie, and I want the rat cage to sit on top. If I do a 2' square, I can do 2 of them side by side and have males and females if it comes down to it. But I feel like that is not enough room for them.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Sounds like a great idea  Boys love comfy places to sleep, so loads of hammocks, cubes, etc etc etc


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Amalthea said:


> Sounds like a great idea  Boys love comfy places to sleep, so loads of hammocks, cubes, etc etc etc


Lol. Got ya. I plan on doing it up as much as possible. Are you part of any Pet Rat Forums by any chance?


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Nah... I used to go on Fancy Rats, but had quite a few "run ins" with many big members on there and I just left. There's enough ratty people that I know and respect here *lol*


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Amalthea said:


> Nah... I used to go on Fancy Rats, but had quite a few "run ins" with many big members on there and I just left. There's enough ratty people that I know and respect here *lol*


Lol. Got ya. I was thinking of joining one now that we have 3 and it looks like we will have some from now on, but I was not sure. Oh well, I will see if the fiancee wants to join one as they are her pets.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I've found all the help I needed on here when I got my first rats too!


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> I've found all the help I needed on here when I got my first rats too!


Maybe I will just stick with this one for my rats then too. Thanks guys.:2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Welcome aboard the "fluffy section" then! :2thumb:


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

feorag said:


> Welcome aboard the "fluffy section" then! :2thumb:


Lol, thank you. I am going to try and get some pics of the other 2 rats soon. They were trying to make friends with the cat through the glass on their cage a little while ago.:2thumb:


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok. Good news and bad news. The bad news is that Frankie passed away while in my mom's care when we went to Maryland. Some good news is that I will never try that again. I have learned my lesson.

On another note, the 2 rats we purchased before we went just got a new home today.








Here it is. I am sure I will be upgrading again, but for now, it is good. Let me know what you think.


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