# Culling mice



## Lucifus

I need to find the most humane methods possible to cull mice of any size. Only need to know how to cull them as babys atm.

Cant find any methods after searching online so thought id ask for a bit of help.


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## bothrops

Pinkies and fluffs - throw very hard against a very hard surface. I use the kitchen floor tiles. The technique I use is to place them belly down in my hand and then quickly move my hand up, over and quickly down - slamming them to the floor whilst I'm kneeling. This makes sure that the back of the head hits the ground first and the kill is instant.


Anything older than that goes into a home made CO2 gas chamber.


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## lovemysnakes

i couldnt do the whole wack thing.... i love animals far too much to physically be the cause of death. 
co2 all the way. 
not sure how to make gas chamber, trying to find out for myself! ive had a look on here and theres a few threads but its all rather hush hush.


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## JamesJ

lovemysnakes said:


> i couldnt do the whole wack thing.... i love animals far too much to physically be the cause of death.
> co2 all the way.
> not sure how to make gas chamber, trying to find out for myself! ive had a look on here and theres a few threads but its all rather hush hush.


The thing is pinkies are such a pain to gas they take much longer as they hold their breath. It's more prolonged gassing them as pinkies so an instant whack seems more humane.


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## bothrops

lovemysnakes said:


> i couldnt do the whole wack thing.... i love animals far too much to physically be the cause of death.
> co2 all the way.
> not sure how to make gas chamber, trying to find out for myself! ive had a look on here and theres a few threads but its all rather hush hush.


 

CO2 doesn't work with young animals. They are physiological evolved to survive in very low oxygen environments (think 15 baby mice tucked up under a big female in a tight nest... that equals very little O2!)

I don't really get the 'love them too much to be the cause of death'. That sort of implies I don't love them because I am able to respect them enough to give them the quickest, most humane death possible? I breed my own rodents so that I know they have the best life possible. I keep snakes to the best of my ability. This means I need to kill their food.

I think it would show a great deal less love for animals to buy in commercial food for my animals, as I don't think that commercial rodents have anything like a good life and especially not a quick, clean death.


In other words, I love animals so much that I am willing to 'bite the bullet' and deal with the angst that causes me so that I know my animals have the best possible food and their food has the best possible life and quickest, most humane possible death.


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## lovemysnakes

James_and_Hana said:


> The thing is pinkies are such a pain to gas they take much longer as they hold their breath. It's more prolonged gassing them as pinkies so an instant whack seems more humane.


learnt something new, thanks 



bothrops said:


> CO2 doesn't work with young animals. They are physiological evolved to survive in very low oxygen environments (think 15 baby mice tucked up under a big female in a tight nest... that equals very little O2!)
> 
> I don't really get the 'love them too much to be the cause of death'. That sort of implies I don't love them because I am able to respect them enough to give them the quickest, most humane death possible? I breed my own rodents so that I know they have the best life possible. I keep snakes to the best of my ability. This means I need to kill their food.
> 
> I think it would show a great deal less love for animals to buy in commercial food for my animals, as I don't think that commercial rodents have anything like a good life and especially not a quick, clean death.
> 
> 
> In other words, I love animals so much that I am willing to 'bite the bullet' and deal with the angst that causes me so that I know my animals have the best possible food and their food has the best possible life and quickest, most humane possible death.


i didnt mean it like that. i would just find it really hard to do  
so with pinkies could i put them in a bag or something? i dont know if id be able to do it. but i want to do whats most humane.


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## bothrops

lovemysnakes said:


> learnt something new, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> i didnt mean it like that. i would just find it really hard to do
> so with pinkies could i put them in a bag or something? i dont know if id be able to do it. but i want to do whats most humane.


I think the bag might hinder rather than help.


It's not easy by any means (in fact, I'd be more worried if I did find it easy) but it is a necessity. I'm a firm believer in a realistic view of animal welfare. I think everyone who wouldn't be prepared to kill there own meat should be vegetarian!


The first time is the worst, it gets easier after the first three hundred or so....


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## lovemysnakes

bothrops said:


> I think the bag might hinder rather than help.
> 
> 
> It's not easy by any means (in fact, I'd be more worried if I did find it easy) but it is a necessity. I'm a firm believer in a realistic view of animal welfare. I think everyone who wouldn't be prepared to kill there own meat should be vegetarian!
> 
> 
> The first time is the worst, it gets easier after the first three hundred or so....


i have killed a goat and ate it for dinner lol. in st lucia.

but a tiny little helpless mouse or rat just makes me feel mean. i dont mind watching the snakes do the job, their bodies are designed to do that. 

so its pretty much just have the baby mouse belly up and hit the back of its head? 

do you hold the feet? tail? 

does it take force or just like your tapping a pen on a table when your in a bad mood? lol


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## bothrops

lovemysnakes said:


> i have killed a goat and ate it for dinner lol. in st lucia.
> 
> but a tiny little helpless mouse or rat just makes me feel mean. i dont mind watching the snakes do the job, their bodies are designed to do that.
> 
> so its pretty much just have the baby mouse belly up and hit the back of its head?
> 
> do you hold the feet? tail?
> 
> does it take force or just like your tapping a pen on a table when your in a bad mood? lol


Hand flat, mouse placed on hand, belly *down*, then with a quick up, turn over and very hard slam into ground it's all over.

If it is big enough to be 'mobile' then i grip the base of the tail and whip them round to the ground instead.

(this all sounds really harsh when written down....)


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## lovemysnakes

bothrops said:


> Hand flat, mouse placed on hand, belly *down*, then with a quick up, turn over and very hard slam into ground it's all over.
> 
> If it is big enough to be 'mobile' then i grip the base of the tail and whip them round to the ground instead.
> 
> (this all sounds really harsh when written down....)


is it bloody?


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## bothrops

Not usually.

Usually there is a little bit of twitching and that's it.

Occasionally there is a slight bleeding from the nose and very very occasionally the belly will split.

99 times out of 100 though, it is a very slight twitch followed by nothing.


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## cbarnes1987

i use a pencil or screwdriver behind the neck, then lift the tail up and over towards the head. One small click, then a twitch, then snake food (for small mice and older). same as bothrops for pinks


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## beaniebopps

I just posted this in the other thread asking the same questions:

I've never had my own colony, but I have worked in a well known Zoo in the UK (which I don't feel I should name because how they cull is the Zoo's own business). We snapped their spines by holding the mouse firmly at the case where the tail joins, and doing one firm whack of their heads off the corner of a solid worksurface. This was always instant, there was never anything more than muscle spasm for a second or two. Its pretty quick too, you can do about 1 every 10 seconds. 

I'm a lover of all animals and a firm believer that breeding your own mice and rats is much more humane than buying them frozen - you are giving them a better life and you are in control of how they die.

If I had the space/money I would keep my own cows, pigs and chickens and slaughter them myself, rather than buying meat from unhappy, overcrowded and inhumanely slaughtered animals.


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## pigglywiggly

flick pinkies on the back of the head.

older ones hold tail, pencil behing head, press down pencil and pull tail. 
instant cervical dislocation. very quick and not bloody at all.

i cant be doing with co2, takes too long.


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## Lucifus

bothrops said:


> Hand flat, mouse placed on hand, belly *down*, then with a quick up, turn over and very hard slam into ground it's all over.
> 
> If it is big enough to be 'mobile' then i grip the base of the tail and whip them round to the ground instead.
> 
> (this all sounds really harsh when written down....)


Worked a treat thank you. I added a flick to the back of the neck after this too just to make sure.


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## ldnessexreps

*the best advice*

chuck the pinks straight in the freezer and any others hold tail, pencil behing head, press down pencil and pull tail. 
instant cervical dislocation. very quick and not bloody at all.


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## bothrops

reprimz said:


> *chuck the pinks straight in the freezer* and any others hold tail, pencil behing head, press down pencil and pull tail.
> instant cervical dislocation. very quick and not bloody at all.


*NOBODY SHOULD DO THIS! PLEASE DO NOT EVER DO THIS*


It has been scientifically documented that freezing animals alive, even pinkies, causes excruciating pain. As the cells freeze, ice crystals cause then to rupture long before conciousness is lost.


It simply isn't true that they just 'slow down and go to sleep'.


Cervical dislocation however is perfectly acceptable for larger animals.


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## lovemysnakes

ive got my first cull to do tomorrow! ive bought an appropiate sealed air tight container and tomorrow i will go and get the plastic tubes and co2....

im glad i dont have to do the pinkies as im pretty much on hoppers now for my smallest snakes. 

wish me luck!


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## lovemysnakes

*how old to use C02 chamber?*

Hey guys. 
I'd really like to pull on peoples experience. I'm not sure at which point I can start using the c02 chamber for the smaller mice. I was thinking anything past ten days old? I'm really not sure and would appreciate the advice rather than go through the horror or trial and error. 

By ten days old my mice are showing patterns bodly and have fine hair. I would say they are smaller to medium sized fuzzies. 

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## MissRosyBoa

i dont mean to butt in but can i just ask a question, what happens to the mothers milk if all her pinks are taken away, does it just dry up no physical harm done or does it lead to things like mastitus. do you leave one or two young to suckle the milk? or cull the whole litter?

i'm sorry if this is a little stupid or out of place


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## pigglywiggly

if you keep them in a 1.2 or bigger group the female will feed the other females babies so you wont get problems.
even pregnant females will feed other females babies before they pop their litters.

i`ve taken whole litters before at pinkie size and not had any mom`s get ill with mastitis.


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## MissRosyBoa

Thanks for answering my question. by 1.2 do you mean 1male with 2females? what if its just a single female? is it still safe for the female, if the whole litter is culled at a day or two old? sorry to be dumb i'm just curious ?


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## Herpetologist_apprentice

bothrops said:


> *NOBODY SHOULD DO THIS! PLEASE DO NOT EVER DO THIS*
> 
> 
> It has been scientifically documented that freezing animals alive, even pinkies, causes excruciating pain. As the cells freeze, ice crystals cause then to rupture long before conciousness is lost.
> 
> 
> It simply isn't true that they just 'slow down and go to sleep'.
> 
> 
> Cervical dislocation however is perfectly acceptable for larger animals.


Oh god i've done this before i feel terrible =(


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## lovemysnakes

MissRosyBoa said:


> Thanks for answering my question. by 1.2 do you mean 1male with 2females? what if its just a single female? is it still safe for the female, if the whole litter is culled at a day or two old? sorry to be dumb i'm just curious ?


 
you shouldnt really keep females on their own. apparently they dont cope very well plus you are more likely to have loses in larger litters. 
i have my females in 3's and make sure all three get along well. the other two females which are pregnant, it often seems to work out that one female pops, the other is due 5-10 days after and the other 5 or more days after that. this way there is a continuous supply of babies and milk. 

so i have two enclosures with three females and the male is kept on his own except when ive got a female in with him. 

i put one to three females in with him at a time and he gets a break inbetween mating. i find this helps him get the females pregnant as soon as they come into estrus and he doesnt get lazy. 

if new borns are taken away then hopefully the mother only has a couple of days to wait until she can feed the babies of the second litter.

i dont need pinks or small fuzzies so only cull once mice are large enough to go into the c02 chamber. this is a huge relief for me as i find culling by hand difficult. 

all of my mice are friendly and the females never seem to be distressed by litters being removed though i dont take a whole litter anyway. 

also when cleaning nurserys it helps if you remove the females first and clean around the remaining pups.


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## **louise**

I cull the mice same way as a few have mentioned, hold tail, swing and hit head/neck onto hard surface (yes sounds awful but it's instant). 

I have 5 breeding groups now and the male stays in with the females all the time. They are great dads and will sit on the nest and keep the babies warm just as the mum does.


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## lovemysnakes

**louise** said:


> I cull the mice same way as a few have mentioned, hold tail, swing and hit head/neck onto hard surface (yes sounds awful but it's instant).
> 
> I have 5 breeding groups now and the male stays in with the females all the time. They are great dads and will sit on the nest and keep the babies warm just as the mum does.


 
so when do your females rest? you just let them get pregnant straight after a litter is born?


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## **louise**

lovemysnakes said:


> so when do your females rest? you just let them get pregnant straight after a litter is born?


Yeah but they only have a few litters then are culled. I Cull males every few months and introduce new unrelated ones.


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## dave_turnip

I've not killed baby mice under a few weeks old but my method for grown mice requires no real DIY skill no making anything and more importantly... no violence. 

I have a sealy CO2 bottle for my MiG welder. The bottles cost £15 to £20 with postage. For the gas chamber I simply use a pringles tube which has a cosy fit around the gas bottle. Pop a few mice in, open the valve just ever so slightly so you can hear gas coming out, slide bottle into pringles tube by an inch or so and lay the whole thing down to give the mice some floor space. Doesn't take long and there's no drama in there, quick n simple.


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## rickpellen

The methods i use 

A. is putting the mouse on a table, pinning its neck down with a pair of tongs and pull the tail, which dislocated the brain fromthe spin killing instantly. This and gassing is the defra approved method used in most labs Note: this does not work on smaller rodents as the tail will pull off leaving the animal alive. 

B. hold them by the tail, then Literally just hitting them on a table as hard as possible


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## Herpsnurp

JamesJ said:


> The thing is pinkies are such a pain to gas they take much longer as they hold their breath. It's more prolonged gassing them as pinkies so an instant whack seems more humane.


Freezer is a much better option.


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## Zak-BW

Herpsnurp said:


> Freezer is a much better option.


10 year old post!!! 
how do you not see that the post clearly says 2011. And also freezing live mice is inhumane and wrong.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Herpsnurp said:


> Freezer is a much better option.


It most certainly is not.


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