# A little help please :)



## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Now I don't want to be shouted at or flamed for this post, helpful comments are wanted 

When I was little i had lots of fish, who all lived years and years. (Gold fish this is). We never had pumps for them, and they all lived in glass fish tanks.. was changed weekly, oxygenating plants etc were in there for them. Fed on flakes etc.

Anyway, I've had fish recently, pumps all were a night mare, always getting blocked, broken, needing new sponges etc etc, got fed up with it, and now its gone, and fish are in a new home (the fish werent gold fish but were little minnows, tetras etc).

Ive just got a new job, and with the new job, ive got a flat. In this flat i wanted a feature fishtank... (not everyones cup of tea i know) Ive just brought a 3/4 foot tall vase which is about 1.5 foot accross. I think its an ok size for a few fish... now......................... I dont really want a pump in it, so coudl i get away with water changing once/twice a week? and what fish would be most suited, or even one single fish that is happy alone? without heat, and preferably without a pump... 
so im guessing something that stays small, something none tropical, something that doesnt poo alot - ie not 10's of fish?


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Stupid question... but is this definitely intended to be filled with water long term?

I would suggest guppies... they do well at room temperature and are pretty little fish. Stick to all males though or you'll have a population explosion on your hands.

I know you said you didn't want a filtration system, but the welfare of the fish has to be put first. Even a simple undergravel filter, which will be hidden by gravel anyway would work. The only thing that would be entering the tank is a clear airline pipe, so it really is minimal. With some cabomba or elodea, you won't even see it after a couple of weeks.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Invest in a cheap HOB filter, they're not any hassle at all and would suit that fine: victory:
You're limited to fish like betta splendens, or risking harming other fish with no filter...Plus betta's are crap fish:lol2:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> Stupid question... but is this definitely intended to be filled with water long term?
> 
> I would suggest guppies... they do well at room temperature and are pretty little fish. Stick to all males though or you'll have a population explosion on your hands.
> 
> I know you said you didn't want a filtration system, but the welfare of the fish has to be put first. Even a simple undergravel filter, which will be hidden by gravel anyway would work. The only thing that would be entering the tank is a clear airline pipe, so it really is minimal. With some cabomba or elodea, you won't even see it after a couple of weeks.





reptile_man_08 said:


> Invest in a cheap HOB filter, they're not any hassle at all and would suit that fine: victory:
> You're limited to fish like betta splendens, or risking harming other fish with no filter...Plus betta's are crap fish:lol2:


thankyou
hmm not to sure what to do..


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

i only know about goldfish.. lol so dont laugh!
could one of these be suitable?


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> *You're limited to fish like betta splendens, or risking harming other fish with no filter...Plus betta's are crap fish*:lol2:


says the one with the abominations aka as parrot fish....:lol2:



freekygeeky said:


> i only know about goldfish.. lol so dont laugh!
> could one of these be suitable?
> image


yes freeky thats a veil tail betta, there are also other types, like crown tail, halfmoon, plakat and all these can be dragon bettas (with scales like a dragon). 

how many liters is that vase?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Malti said:


> says the one with the abominations aka as parrot fish....:lol2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


one of them would be beautiful, cos you can only keep one male cant you, well of the simease ones anyway? (i think..)
and how many liters, i have NO idea. lol
lots i imagine


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> one of them would be beautiful, cos you can only keep one male cant you, well of the simease ones anyway? (i think..)
> and how many liters, i have NO idea. lol
> lots i imagine


yes the siamese fighter or _Betta splendens_ only 1 male should be kept.

is the vase square or roundish? so I get a rough idea. you could also add some shrimps (but they needs lots of cover) and snails


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

I'd keep some colourful snails in there...
With a few plants, Elodea, I wouldn't reccomend Cabomba, it needs a lot of light to grow. It'd look beautiful!

Good luck, and post pictures.

PS - Don't take no notice, Bettas are great fish! Also, there's someone on here who breeds them. I can't quite remember his name but if I do, I'll post it and you can PM him, if this is the route you want to take.


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

Lee2211 said:


> PS - Don't take no notice, Bettas are great fish! Also, there's someone on here who breeds them. I can't quite remember his name but if I do, I'll post it and you can PM him, if this is the route you want to take.


I do, but I'm a continent away :lol2:


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Malti said:


> I do, but I'm a continent away :lol2:


 Not quite the person I was thinking of :whistling2:



Is Malta in another continant? I thought it was in Europe! Or maybe it's in Africa...


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> PS - Don't take no notice, Bettas are great fish! Also, there's someone on here who breeds them. I can't quite remember his name but if I do, I'll post it and you can PM him, if this is the route you want to take.


 Andy007 and Sweetcorn : victory: they're definately the people to talk to if you go for a fighter...you'll definately be swayed if you have a look at some of the fish on their website :mf_dribble:


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

Lee2211 said:


> Not quite the person I was thinking of :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Malta in another continant? I thought it was in Europe! Or maybe it's in Africa...


neh we're still europe, but at the tip...so there's a continent between us


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

While a betta would work well in that tank... you'd need to add heating for it to thrive.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Malti said:


> says the one with the abominations aka as parrot fish....:lol2:


He died, but yes they're hybrids.


Lee2211 said:


> I'd keep some colourful snails in there...
> With a few plants, Elodea, I wouldn't reccomend Cabomba, it needs a lot of light to grow. It'd look beautiful!
> 
> Good luck, and post pictures.
> ...


They are possibly the most boring fish I have ever kept...They're like a male guppy, which moves less...Although being an anabantoid (sp) they are different to breed.
You could keep many different species of gobies and much more active and interesting larger fish if you had a filter.I have a 5gal next to me with no heater, just a filter, in which I have 4 red cheek gobies in.They lovely lively guys who are always on the go: victory:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

thankyou every one..
maybe i coudl keep snails in there i love pond snails! lol

ok i need a mathy person to work this out...

height of the vase..
66 cm
and the circle is 27cm accross

now its been AGES since i did maths, i think i need to work out the area of the circle, x it by the height that'll give me the volume... to make that in to liters... i have NO idea lol


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Look at my cute little gobies!!! (there's a few snails creeping in too)


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

i used to catch gobies as a child!!


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

You mean newts or something, right?
Those guys are from china though.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

reptile_man_08 said:


> You mean newts or something, right?
> Those guys are from china though.


no lol. well thats what i was told they were...
innnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn either majorca or ibiza, cant remember which


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

freekygeeky said:


> thankyou every one..
> maybe i coudl keep snails in there i love pond snails! lol
> 
> ok i need a mathy person to work this out...
> ...


I work it out to be just under 38 litres... more than enough to make a great betta tank. I was thinking about lighting for it... a lamp like this would set it off well Large Chrome Curva Floor Standard Lamp With Marble Base on eBay (end time 12-Jul-10 09:53:54 BST)


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Ahhh, I guess you could have then : victory: Awesome!


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> I work it out to be just under 38 litres... more than enough to make a great betta tank. I was thinking about lighting for it... a lamp like this would set it off well Large Chrome Curva Floor Standard Lamp With Marble Base on eBay (end time 12-Jul-10 09:53:54 BST)


a ha! 38 litres sounds LOADS! lol
would a lamp a normal lamp be enough to heat it then, say for a tropical species 



reptile_man_08 said:


> Ahhh, I guess you could have then : victory: Awesome!


they were more brightly coloured than yours though (no offense to yours hehe!)


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

could a shoal of neon tetras live in there?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Well I did have tropical ones too, such as these beasties!


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> could a shoal of neon tetras live in there?


It would be soo much easier if you got a 25/50 W heater and a little filter!
But no, I wouldn't recommend neon tetras..


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

no pump/heater wanted!!
there will be a fish out there for me, i think i may just go for a proper sexy lone male fighter fishy wishy


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> They are possibly the most boring fish I have ever kept...They're like a male guppy, which moves less...Although being an anabantoid (sp) they are different to breed.



you must have had a dumb one then...all ones I had and have, are different characters. 

could have been influenced by the owner :lol2:










this is a halfmoon plakat dragon


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Malti said:


> you must have had a dumb one then...all ones I had and have, are different characters.
> 
> could have been influenced by the owner :lol2:
> 
> ...


oooo prettyful!!!
can you buy fish like this online? safely?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Malti said:


> you must have had a dumb one then...all ones I had and have, are different characters.
> 
> could have been influenced by the owner :lol2:
> 
> ...


Most betta-loving people like to make up that they have characters:whistling2:


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> oooo prettyful!!!
> can you buy fish like this online? safely?


some people I know have bought from renowned breeders on aquabid, I'll ask exactly who's the top breeder 



reptile_man_08 said:


> Most betta-loving people like to make up that they have characters:whistling2:


you have just won this


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)




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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

thankyou for all your help, any other ideas on where to buy fish online?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Not any places with a good rep.Most shops will be able to order in whatever you want: victory:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Not any places with a good rep.Most shops will be able to order in whatever you want: victory:


kk .


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Unless you were getting from a specialist betta breeder, you'd be far better going to your lfs... p&p usually starts at ~£15 for fish, so that would be one dear betta 

As for the lamp... it can't be used to heat the tank. Apart from the fact that it would have very little effect on the water temperature, it would need to go off at night, which would leave it 'unheated' half the time. 

Even this 15 WATT MINI SUBMERSIBLE HEATER - CheapPetProducts.Net which can be hidden under the gravel would work.


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

was looking around my betta stuff, these guys r good...

B.Globe Bettas - Betta Globe


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

this one is BEAUTIFUL
Betta Globe


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Just looking at google images 

I've found some STUNNING fish.. I wonder if i could buy them and keep them together, in the 38ish liters of vase i have....btw are fish like the CB not WC etc?


























































i like these too infact i prefer there faces to the ones above 









I do also love these









and these


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes, all bettas commonly available are captive bred... wild caught ones are available but are not as brightly coloured/flamboyant, but still beautiful all the same.BETTA ENISAE, SEXED ADULT PAIR..STUNNING RARE FISH. on eBay (end time 25-Jun-10 21:41:52 BST)

If the water was heated/filtered, you could add more fish... Although I personally wouldn't mix bettas and guppies.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

ok thankyou x


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

bettas are solitary, and guppies don't mix with them, as they might get mistaken for bettas and attacked.

if it was heated I would suggest some pygmy cories


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

I have some corydoras habrosus, great little fish which I have found to like temps of around 22C...Maybe you have a reptile room that stays warm?:lol2:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

gonna go look at some fishies today


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

I went to my local fish-y shop yesterday
and found a BEAUTIFUL fish!!! The man said they get 3 in a week, and i would be able to choose a colour if i decided i wanted one.

He was just like this, 









But his fins werent up like that, is that a bad sign or?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

I was also thinking is it possible/legal to go catch ickle fish from a local river?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> I went to my local fish-y shop yesterday
> and found a BEAUTIFUL fish!!! The man said they get 3 in a week, and i would be able to choose a colour if i decided i wanted one.
> 
> He was just like this,
> ...


It can mean there ill, but bettas don't do much...Some just stay in the same position most the time with their fins down, it's only when it's feeding time/something gets there attention that they flare up fully.
Here's some pics of my old betta when I first got him


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

reptile_man_08 said:


> It can mean there ill, but bettas don't do much...Some just stay in the same position most the time with their fins down, it's only when it's feeding time/something gets there attention that they flare up fully.
> Here's some pics of my old betta when I first got him
> image
> image


yea he was like that, but he wasnt moving or anything, maybe he was just relaxed.


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> It can mean there ill, but bettas don't do much...


and do you know why they reserve their energy as much as possible and not move around like guppies? or just grumbling cause you had a beautiful betta which acted like one



freekygeeky said:


> yea he was like that, but he wasn't moving or anything, maybe he was just relaxed.


could have been relaxing, or simply found nothing interesting...what was he kept in?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Malti said:


> and do you know why they reserve their energy as much as possible and not move around like guppies? or just grumbling cause you had a beautiful betta which acted like one


For breeding? He occasionally built a small bubble nest, but apart from that there are plenty more interesting fish in the sea... And what are you saying my betta acted like?..A betta? yes, not very interesting imo...
Edit: ugh it's late lol


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> For breeding? He occasionally built a small bubble nest, but apart from that there are plenty more interesting fish in the sea... And what are you saying my betta acted like?..A betta? yes, not very interesting imo...
> Edit: ugh it's late lol


well in the wild, they live in a warm place where the water dries up quickly causing them to live in very small pool for quite a stretch of time before the rains come. now, do you think it would be wise for the betta in that circumstance to stay running around the little little pool for no reason? where will it get energy from? food will be limited so they preserve their energy. 

now you know why, so stop grumbling that you had a "lazy betta" and that they're uninteresting, cause you're really breaking my "family jewels". if you didn't do enough research, which includes the natural habitat of the fish, thats your problem.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

anyway........





I've chosen some of the fish..
Zebra and leopard danios..
I then want one or two more colourful bigger fish, there where some nice ones at the shop frogot there names thogh


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Malti said:


> well in the wild, they live in a warm place where the water dries up quickly causing them to live in very small pool for quite a stretch of time before the rains come. now, do you think it would be wise for the betta in that circumstance to stay running around the little little pool for no reason? where will it get energy from? food will be limited so they preserve their energy.
> 
> now you know why, so stop grumbling that you had a "lazy betta" and that they're uninteresting, cause you're really breaking my "family jewels". if you didn't do enough research, which includes the natural habitat of the fish, thats your problem.


Oh, yeah.I remember that now.I did research very well: victory:...I just haven't had the fish for about 2 years...Still, shows that they do not really do much.
0o danios are nice, very hardy too: victory: ...Leopard danios get a decent size though, I would recommend a bigger tank


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> anyway........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


danios with no heating or filtration? its like reps with no heatmat etc


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

danios shouldnt be housed in small tanks IMO, they are fast fish and they grow to a decent size of a couple of inches. the smallest tank i had zebra/leopard danios in was 2ft and they were swimming so fast they would wedge themselves in behind the filter holder. now i have 20 in my 6ft tank and they are always on the go, far to energetic for a smaller tank. 

no fish should be kept with zero filtration, even [email protected] refuse sales of fish to unfiltered tanks which goes to show how basic it is to have one in there!

if you arent prepared to give the animal the absolute minimum for their well being you shouldnt own them. you wouldnt keep a horse in a garden, so dont keep a fish in a bowl/vase with no water movement/filtration, its cruel IMO.


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> danios shouldnt be housed in small tanks IMO, they are fast fish and they grow to a decent size of a couple of inches. the smallest tank i had zebra/leopard danios in was 2ft and they were swimming so fast they would wedge themselves in behind the filter holder. now i have 20 in my 6ft tank and they are always on the go, far to energetic for a smaller tank.
> 
> no fish should be kept with zero filtration, even [email protected] refuse sales of fish to unfiltered tanks which goes to show how basic it is to have one in there!
> 
> if you arent prepared to give the animal the absolute minimum for their well being you shouldnt own them. you wouldnt keep a horse in a garden, so dont keep a fish in a bowl/vase with no water movement/filtration, its cruel IMO.



I agree 100% with you....OP you could have asked atleast before buying, seeing you don't know fish. 

ps got pics of your goldies? I luv them but can't keep them atm, not enough space


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Malti said:


> I agree 100% with you...*.OP you could have asked atleast before buying, seeing you don't know fish. *


WOW you lot are judgmental.. flip me.


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> WOW you lot are judgmental.. flip me.


first you scream your lungs out that you don't want *no thermometer and no filtration *whatsoever, and then you go buy fish which need it? sure we're gonna say its not right, so why the :censor: did you ask on a type of fish and got another which has different requirements? its like getting info on corn snakes and getting an anaconda.... 

if you had said you got a snake or a lizard with no equipment there'd be pages of people telling you its wrong, I tend to consider fish animals which are to be taken care of too...



ps reptile guy, sorry if I got defensive of bettas, they're my fave fish and I see them different from you, but you got your opinion and I got mine, and wasn't worth it seems, hope we're cool mate


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Malti said:


> *first you scream your lungs out
> 
> 
> then you go buy fish which need it? sure we're gonna say its not right, so why the :censor: did you ask on a type of fish and got another which has different requirements? *


Firstly i NEVER screamed...

Secondly... your rather rude. 

Thirdly...I haven't brought them, and haven't said i have brought them..

Fourthly...I had an in depth talk with two guys who worked there, both said they are cold water fish, both said they would max get to 1/2 inches, which is fine for my tank.

Also...I never EVER said I was going to be keeping them in the tank the whole time...

P.s You malti, like others, pee people off so much so they bugger off without getting lots of info, it happens all the time in the lizard snake and other pets section (sections i go on). If you just shout at, and therefore pee others off, they aren't going to stay on here to listen to you ''help'' are they? Stupid stupid person you are. Thank you for others help.

pp.s its a shame that you, and a few others like to ruin this forum for others, a few years back people like you would of been shunned out of the forum. Rather than being rude, help others, a little tip for you


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> Firstly i NEVER screamed...
> 
> Secondly... your rather rude.
> 
> ...


well how you said it, it seems you got them. I'm not from the uk but goldie who is got the same impression so maybe you should start communicating better? could have said, I would like to get some danios - not I've chosen, chosen means went to the shop, chosen them and got them.

I'm "rude" cause I thought you just wasted my time and went impulse buying or whatever. when you give advice to someone and then they do the opposite I bet you'd feel offended.

unless its a good fish shop, with real fish people, they could tell you anything - ever went to a reptile shop and got bad info? (loads) same thing in LFS...

did they tell you that a small group (about 4-6) need about a 70 ltr aquarium cause they're very energetic? and how will you maintain water temperature at 24 C with no thermometer? here which is much warmer than uk we get a temp of average 20s, worst of summer we'd get 24 in direct sunlight, so with no heater I don't really know how you'll maintain it.

ps for your info, I'm not like this usually, but from how you said it, we thought you had bought them, and I've seen enough fish mistreated with no one giving a thought cause they're not fluffy animals, just as are reps and other inverts aswell, so I do get angry. Better if I left this thread now...


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Malti said:


> . Better if I left this thread now...


we can leave together 
*waves*


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## Malti (Sep 17, 2009)

freekygeeky said:


> we can leave together
> *waves*


:cheers:


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> Firstly i NEVER screamed...
> 
> Secondly... your rather rude.
> 
> ...


It's true freeky...If you were on any fish forum you would have got a royal raping.
It's true about fish shop staff knowing :censor: all, generally - the waterzoo in Peterborough is a decent shop though.: victory:
While you may not have said those things it came across to me like that too...


Malti said:


> well how you said it, it seems you got them. I'm not from the uk but goldie who is got the same impression so maybe you should start communicating better? could have said, I would like to get some danios - not I've chosen, chosen means went to the shop, chosen them and got them.
> 
> I'm "rude" cause I thought you just wasted my time and went impulse buying or whatever. when you give advice to someone and then they do the opposite I bet you'd feel offended.
> 
> ...


This.Leopard danios do get too big tbh...
Danios will withstand temperatures varying 5f +- around 24C though.I think I recall the other species you mentioned being smaller, so if you got a filter (these fish like strong water movement) they could possibly be kept adequately in a room with a warm constant temp...But your making things soo much more difficult by not getting basic equipment!
Fundamentally for a tank to run properly with fish the nitrogen cycle needs to be functioning properly, and without a filter this is very hard to do.
I had leopard danios over 2 inches in size.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i have never ever had leopard or zebra danios stay smaller than 2" long. they are very very active fish and need a lot of water movement to thrive. no decent pet shop/aquatics center will sell you fish for an unfiltered bowl/tank. even [email protected] who are regularly flamed will refuse a sale to an unfiltered set-up, its cruel plain and simple, if even poor shops will refuse you sales surely this should tell you something.

so, your only option for this is aquatic snails-nerite or apple, or a single male betta fish. a filter of some sort is an absolute must. 

do not go and buy a small fish or a few small fish, even if they do stay small like you have been told danios do (which dont) as they still need plenty of swimming room.

just remember, pet shops are there for 1 reason, to make money. if you buy fish to go into an unsuitable set-up, they are likely to become diseased, where will you go for treatments? - pet shop. you may decide you need a larger set-up once they grow, where will you get it? -pet shop. your fish may die from poor water quality in an inadequate set-up, where will you buy replacement fish from?- pet shop. they are a shop at the end of the day, they are looking to sell stock to get profits, they dont really care for the animals well being unless you get a really good shop with decent trained staff. as you have been told danios will stay smaller than they do and will be fine in your set-up, i would ignore any information these guys give you, do your own research and then buy.


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