# More help please! Vents/Heat/Water Bearded Dragon?



## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm so sorry to bother you again but I have searched the site and can’t really find the answers. As I have said before, we are very new to reptile keeping - as you will clearly see from the fact that I decided we should build a three tier vivarium for our Bearded Dragon. This is turning out not to be my best idea, as it sounded a heck of a lot simpler than it is proving to be! John (thanking him, Dave and Bradley so much for all their help) has told me that a two tier viv would have been sufficient but sadly we had already got the main structure built – so a three tier it will have to be, for the time being anyway……. 

The top viv is 4ft x 2ft x 2ft and the two beneath it are slightly less tall, 4ft x 2ft x 16 inches. The ‘main’ top viv will have an Arcadia T5 UVB system and the heat light/basking spot, thermostat etc. The two vivs underneath will both have UVB lighting as well but not the Arcadia T5 systems. They will also have a 40w bulb in each, to provide some heat – both on thermostats – but no basking spots.

So, my first question is: How many round 3” vents will I need in each level to ensure adequate ventilation? (There are 4 in the viv she is currently in, which is 4ft x 2ft x 2ft). Should I put four in the top level and just two in the lower two levels as they will not get so hot?

The second question is: If I have a 40w bulb, just to give some heat in each of the two lower levels – what temperature should I aim for? Can these be just ‘normal household bulbs’? Should I have the bulb in the middle or at one end of the viv?

Third question is: Water – do I provide it at all times or not? She currently has an approx. 9” round 1” deep ceramic dish, with about a quarter of an inch of filtered water in all the time. 

Apologies again for asking so many questions but as I have now lumbered us with this huge and not entirely sensible task, we should try to make sure that we get things right for the Beardie.

Thanks once again for any help anyone can give me.
Janie


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

This is not what you're going to want to hear, but I'm going to put it out there to start with. I think you may be better off starting afresh on this project. I'll also give what advice I can in terms of making a go of what you've got, but first I'll run through my reasons. 

Firstly, in providing heating on each level you will need each heat source to be individually statted, to ensure they're safe. However even this may not be enough, as with both lower lamps giving out enough heat to ensure those two layers are usable could bring your third level to an unacceptably high level, and will at the very least probably create a situation whereby your top viv won't have much, if any temperature gradient.

Secondly, ventilation, Now a general rule of thumb is that the bigger the viv the less ventilation required. This is because what you're aiming to do with the ventilation is to refresh the air inside the viv, and the greater the volume, the less renewal it needs. In your situation, with vents in all three layers, you'll end up with quite an extreme convection system, as the lower level will by necessity be much cooler (to avoid the problems above) and this will create a situation where you will have almost constant air refreshment, making humidity a problem. With the normal air humidity in a house being around 50% and your desired level being somewhere around 20% it could cause problems.

Cleaning, with such a big structure and access ways and so on, you're setting yourself up for a LOT of work keeping this monster clean. And for a while it'll be fine, but it'll become a chore sooner or later, and the last thing you want is for your pet that you want to enjoy to become a daily grind..........this is based on experience, I personally automate as much as possible with bioactive substrates, timers, auto misters, etc, but still end up finding cleaning days a grind just for the few animals that aren't able to live in bioactive environments.

And finally, wasted space. Your beardie is probably not going to appreciate all three layers, it'll pick one or two that suit it and that'll be about it. Which will, in the future, lead to you thinking "if he only had two layers we could have another viv there with a.....leopard gecko/couple of crestie tanks/corn snake/ cricket breeding colony/whatever there"

None of these things are insurmountable, but speaking form experience (I have built all my own vivs for the past ten years, and honestly I haven't got any non standard ones that are more than three or four years old, as I try to incorporate clever ideas and invariably they don't work out too well or could be improved on)

If you do choose to continue, I would go with something like 2 vents in the top and a single vent in the hot end of each of the lower vivs.

40W or 400W, doesn't really matter, they'll need to be statted anyway. Keep them all at the same end of the vivs as your basking spot in the top one, and probably aim for a 5 degree (centigrade) drop in temps from your ambient temp in the top viv to the middle one, and a further five degree drop between the middle and the bottom. This is all guesswork though, as I've not tried a three tier viv.

A small water dish left in one of the cold ends probably won't make a great deal of difference overall, as I said before I think your humidity will end up being a little higher than desirable anyway. 

Hope this helps, sorry for the massive essay.

Dave


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## Itsjustme (Sep 25, 2013)

Note that while I have kept reptiles for years have only had a beardie for one year when I got on that was about 3 years old.

I'm not 100% on the vents but I'd suggest one at the cool end 3" up from the base in each unit so that cold air escapes rather than at the top where the hot air will escape.

Also as you're going for an awesome build by the sound of it why would you not plan at least one basking spot? I'd suggest that in something that size that you have at least one using a specific basking lamp rather than a household bulb even the rest are household bulbs but for the sake of a few quid why not have a basking spot in each level? I use Habistat 100W clear glass lamps (about £6) plus a fitting designed for it. Wherever you get the bulb you should be able to get a fitting without too much problem. Mine is linked to a Habistat dimming thermostat and you'd need one for each lamp.


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## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

Dave,

Thank you so much. All you have said makes complete sense and I'm so grateful that you took the time to give me such a detailed and informative reply. I have taken everything that you have said on-board.

This ‘structure’ has fortunately been made in such a way that if I can’t get it right for her, then I can easily block off the lowest level (and make it into a cupboard for me to hide in, with all the new equipment that I have bought, when I have to admit that I have been a complete idiot to even think that it could work!)

Having said that, I think I would like to give it a go - only because I know I can quickly change things if it fails miserably (and it probably will) and is impossible to get right. It hadn't even occurred to me that the heat below the main viv would affect the top viv but you are right, of course it will. I have bought thermostats for the bottom two vivs, so will be able to control the temperatures individually in those. The thing that is worrying me the most now is the potential humidity problem that you have pointed out. Can this be monitored with something? Would having no vents in the lowest level help? Would the water bowl increase the humidity? If it’s too high, how will it affect her? (Panicking a bit now!)

Cleaning – yes..... I really do need my head testing …………..

All the other advice you have given me I will follow. 

If I can’t get this right I will change things. I definitely won’t persevere if I can’t create and maintain a suitable environment for her. Thank you again for spending so much time on your extremely helpful reply. 

Janie



Hi, Itsjustme,

Thanks so much for your reply. This is our first reptile – she is absolutely adorable and around 8 months old. She is my 24 year old daughters and I was a bit horrified when she first arrived, as I didn't think I could fall in love with a reptile! (I now have!) I think I have bitten off a little more than I expected with this project. To be honest, it was planned to just give her more room to potter about in, as she loves coming out and exploring but making sure that she is going to be absolutely safe and happy is not as easy as I thought. I probably rambled a bit in my post but she will have a basking spot, with a dimming thermostat in the top viv. 

Thanks again,
Janie


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Humidity.........it may not be too much of an issue, the heating should dry the air out anyways, but if you want my opinion on how to reduce it more, add a ceramic heater to your top viv as the main source of heating, these dry the air out a lot, so could counter any humidity issues. Some people would say that beardies require a light emitting heat source to bask under, in my personal experience this isn't the case, they'll quite happily bask under a ceramic heat emitter provided there is a raised piece of decor beneath it. I believe they equate being higher up with being warmer, for obvious reasons. Combining this with having your UV lighting set up towards the hot end will be fine for the animal and help with the humidity.

Dave


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## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I will certainly keep that in mind. It will still be some time before she can move in, as I'm making polystyrene backgrounds and things which will all need grouting, painting, sealing etc. There are some wonderful examples on this lovely site for those and Tom Cannon's really are just incredible. I certainly wish I had even a tiny bit of his talent. 

Thank you again for all your help - I'm hoping I have asked enough questions now to get it up and running but I'm pretty sure I'm bound to run into other problems along the way.......

Janie


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

i would make the whole of the top viv, a "hot end" with not much gradient at all, so she could bask anywhere she wanted in this area,

second level a mid range ambient temp for when she doesnt want to bask ect with a bulb or ceramic to keep it at about 32c ish 

at the bottom i would have hardly any heating at all, so she could drop down and cool right of, 

have bright lighting in the upper 2 and a duller shaded light set up in the bottem

this way she could regulate being in a basking situation
general cooler situation 
or a shady cool area


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## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

Many thanks for that suggestion - I really hadn't considered that option at all. It is a good thought and certainly worth seriously thinking about. You have got me thinking now ..... 

I'm still getting to grips with my complete madness in deciding that we should make a three tier one in the first place! It will certainly be interesting to see if she will actually use any, or all, of the extra space. I'm just hoping that it won't prove to be a complete waste of time. Time will tell I guess.

Thanks again - your help is much appreciated.
Janie


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## Shauolin (Oct 4, 2013)

My beardie reacted differently to ceramic heaters. She used to bask on a rock under the lamp but I was concerned about humidity and changed to a ceramic one as they dry the air out more. When I did this she stopped basking in her spot and went towards the UV tube at the back of the viv as this was the only light source after taking away the heat lamp. It got so bad she was jumping off rocks and catching the fake plants and climbing to the top of the viv to be close to it lol. Couldn't be having that so put the lamp back.
The beardies see the basking lamp as the sun so bask. Now I've changed back to a lamp she is back on her rock and away from the tube.
To combat the humidity issue I used hemp as substrate. Works a treat and humidity is steady at around 37-42%.


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## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

Hi Shauolin,

Thanks for that info - new Beardie ownership is complicated to say the least lol. Ours is still in her 'original' viv and all seems to be ok in there. I do worry about the time she will go into the new ones, especially as humidity has been mentioned as a possible problem. From the posts, it's clear that humidity can be measured - but with what? She is currently on newspaper as I can't decide what substrate would be best - every time I think I have made up my mind, I read something against it..... Hemp I hadn't even heard of! I will now look into that as a possible solution. Thanks again, all this help is very gratefully received. 

Janie


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## Shauolin (Oct 4, 2013)

You can measure humidity with a hygrometer. Get a digital one, not the dials as they can be massively off. I have a hygrometer with a thermometer built in so shows me both, then I have a thermometer by itself in the cool end so I can see what's going on in both ends. All digital as they are the most accurate.
My local reptile store introduced me to hemp lol. She said she had never had a issue of compaction like you do with sand, it holds moisture which takes it out of the air and is easy to clean, I'm getting on well with it so far.
Don't worry too much though mate I'm new to beardies too, just keep reading and taking it all on board and you will find the best way. Mine seem happy lol.


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## Janie M (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks Shauolin, now that you have said that, I realise that I have a sort of self standing digital thermometer thingy in the kitchen and have just looked at it - it also has a humidity reading - excellent news! It will be put in the viv today so I can check what it going on in that one. It will be very useful for the new vivs (talking an absolute age to complete!) as they are the ones it sounds as if I might have more trouble with. I stupidly decided to make her the three tier viv before I had a clue about how difficult it would be to get them all up and running and safe for her. This site is absolutely wonderful and full of invaluable advice. I was given literally just a 'flyer' about how to care for a Bearded Dragon when we bought her and I truthfully had no idea of the research I would have to do to try to make sure that she is happy and healthy. I am having trouble now with the temperatures in her current viv and her apparent lack of desire to bask, so I think I will have to post another question later on today to ask for advice about that! Hopefully we will get there eventually! Many thanks again for your help.
Janie


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