# First self build!!



## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi everyone i have decided to build a 4x2x2 viv for my black blood python. Now i have just a few questions about this i have already read through alot of the posts on here but looking for some specific advise.

First i was thinking of making from MDF and then varnishing up the inside with yacht varnish. Now having read about is it just the ends of the mdf or will it need all the coats of varnish?

Also what other kinds of wood would you recommend? Was thinking maybe plywood?

This one is for anybody who has done a build in the north west mainly around the Warrington/St Helens area where do you get your glass from and also your wood?

Cheers in advance.
Stuart


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## Gangrena (Jan 6, 2011)

**

I did an 7fx2fx2f from mdf for beardies, and I have to say - MDF is STRONG, dense, and heavy.Looks good and it is easy to cover with paint [ + primer ]. I would seal all of the inside with yacht, and any fake backg with g4 pond. 

I have never used other wood than mdf, because it comes in such massive sizes . I don't like density of others [ that I could afford ].


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## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Cheers for the quick response. What thickness MDF did you use?


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## Gangrena (Jan 6, 2011)

**

It was 18 mm, but also used with steel supports, and a little frame for the middle of the viv not to drop [ cause I've had tv on top of it  ]. I have also used a trimmed branch bolted to the roof and floor as an additional support.


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

Personally I find MDF great to work with. You can get a great finish when painted and using car filler on any edges and screw holes/heads will provide a seem less result. 

I would use at least 18mm but you will need to brace long lengths to prevent bowing/sagging.

The only other wood I have used was marine ply again worked well but little more work to get the good finish.

Hope this helps a little and I am sure others will post with more useful tips.

Make sure you post a build thread!


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## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Cheers thats what i have been looking at. Wont need the steel supports but will get use some off cuts of mdf for extra support. 

Also to anyone else who may know could you use fablon or somthing like that to line the viv?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm not up on blood pythons care, but if they require more than 40-50% humidity you'd be better off going with a different material, or sealing the absolute life out of it. MDF swells like a balloon with any moisture. It has it's good points as above, but also remember the dust from it is carcinogenic and therefore when working with it wear a dustmask. Also get proper MDF sealer, lots of standard sealers and primers soak straight into it.

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> I'm not up on blood pythons care, but if they require more than 40-50% humidity you'd be better off going with a different material, or sealing the absolute life out of it. MDF swells like a balloon with any moisture. It has it's good points as above, but also remember the dust from it is carcinogenic and therefore when working with it wear a dustmask. Also get proper MDF sealer, lots of standard sealers and primers soak straight into it.
> 
> Dave


Lol loving the health and safety tip. Tee hee. Although on a serious note your totally right!

Again completely agree with the sealers and primers, could end up spending a fortune trying to cover it if you don't get the right stuff.

I have a crestie in my MDF viv and it is holding up to the humidity so far but have been thinking about lining it with plexiglass. Ronseal yacht varnish is doing the job at the mo.

However Shed, you have built more than me and advised me well on my build so I take note! Lol Again.


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## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah the humidity issue is really one of the main reasons for this thread. Also if the whole interior was covered in plastic and sealed with aquarium sealant?

Also any other options of wood?? All the wood will be cut when bought so no fear of any dust flying around the snakes.


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## Gangrena (Jan 6, 2011)

Another solution is to build polystyrene panels all around, cover with grout / concrete, seal with g4. That way not only you get impenetrable surfaces ( for water that is ), great looks, a d insulation for keeping whole thing at bay temperature wise. It is also cheap optio even if you cover the roof with a plexiglass sheet.


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## Gangrena (Jan 6, 2011)

Problem with plastic is that when heated and humid it may release not pleasant substances, depending of course on type of plastic. With other kinds of wood you will find your self making a big puzzle piece of bits of wood/timber, sealing, curing, sealing, and then you will have to decide how to protect ( same as mdf ). Costwise I don't think there is anything in mdf range that gives kind of aesthetic look and is as easy to finish.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Personally I build all my snake vivs out of contiboard, as it's already pretty protected, and a bead of silicon along the seams tends to help it hold up to humidity. This usually winds up being the quickest and most economical way of building, which i'd imagine is why so much furniture, kitchen units, vivs, etc is made with it. 

If i'm dealing with particularly humid animals (such as my chameleon, or day geckos who're heavily misted 3 times daily and havre planted vivs with drainage layers) I line the viv with glass. It's not as cheap as yacht varnish, but not as expensive as rebuilding rotten vivs lol (speaking from more experience than i care to admit!!)

Avoid perspex and silicone though, silicone doesn't adhere to it, even ones that say they do (again with the over experience, flooded my lounge more than once because of this)

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Lol loving the health and safety tip. Tee hee. Although on a serious note your totally right!
> 
> Again completely agree with the sealers and primers, could end up spending a fortune trying to cover it if you don't get the right stuff.
> 
> ...


Built more......maybe. Made more mistakes to learn from.......thahs for sure!!:lol2:


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## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Cheers for all the advice i will have a look at contiboard to seems a few people have used it. Also any thoughts or experience with OSB3 which is supposed to be water resistant and work well in humidity??


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

I've used OSB3 in constructing shed floors and roofs, and a few other jobs. It is water resistant, but it's kinda like water resistant watches, only good for so much. If your OSB is getting humid and damp then drying out, its ok, if its staying damp or humid for much of/all the tme, it'll rot. Not as quickly as normal OSB or plywood, etc, but it still will. Same with marine grade plywood, lasts longer but not waterproof. Glass is the only guarantee, I use it in several, but contiboard is pretty much the next best thing as long as you don't have sitting water.

Dave


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## stu9158 (Jul 23, 2011)

Ha right well will pass on the OSB then most likely go the way of contiboard or MDF. Only as the blood will be moved to a big viv later so this will house dwarf boas or something of that size.


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## bro110 (May 18, 2012)

I have just built a 4x2x2 viv for my new retic this weekend out of marine ply as this is more water resistant and coated in yaht varnish. I think if you used the same it should be fine tbh mate. Others may disagree but that's my option for you to consider


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> I've used OSB3 in constructing shed floors and roofs, and a few other jobs. It is water resistant, but it's kinda like water resistant watches, only good for so much. If your OSB is getting humid and damp then drying out, its ok, if its staying damp or humid for much of/all the tme, it'll rot. Not as quickly as normal OSB or plywood, etc, but it still will. Same with marine grade plywood, lasts longer but not waterproof. Glass is the only guarantee, I use it in several, but contiboard is pretty much the next best thing as long as you don't have sitting water.
> 
> Dave


Dave, have you ever used or thought about using G4 to seal the vivs. Just wondering if that would work well and be safe for the reptiles.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Dave, have you ever used or thought about using G4 to seal the vivs. Just wondering if that would work well and be safe for the reptiles.


I've heard plenty about using G4 and it sounds like a really good product. No personal experience just yet, but I know it's safe with reps, and as far as i'm aware will be more than adequate. I'm always hesitant to advise products or methods I haven't tried, but from much of what i've read its a safe bet  Not sure how long it'll stand up to UV exposure though, this would be my only concern, as it's a pond sealer, and therefore it would usually be submerged beneath water and therefore not subject to much UV. 

Food for thought

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> I've heard plenty about using G4 and it sounds like a really good product. No personal experience just yet, but I know it's safe with reps, and as far as i'm aware will be more than adequate. I'm always hesitant to advise products or methods I haven't tried, but from much of what i've read its a safe bet  Not sure how long it'll stand up to UV exposure though, this would be my only concern, as it's a pond sealer, and therefore it would usually be submerged beneath water and therefore not subject to much UV.
> 
> Food for thought
> 
> Dave


Yeah I have used it a number of times at work for various applications. And it is a great product but generally it is submerged so as you mentioned it is not subjected to UV so much and is kept from drying out and cracking. 

My initial concern was to the reptiles but secondly the longevity of water protection. Not sure if it is like bitumen which last longer submerged.

We recently used it to knock up a slury which got thinking about the backgrounds and an waterproof alternative to grout.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Yeah I have used it a number of times at work for various applications. And it is a great product but generally it is submerged so as you mentioned it is not subjected to UV so much and is kept from drying out and cracking.
> 
> My initial concern was to the reptiles but secondly the longevity of water protection. Not sure if it is like bitumen which last longer submerged.
> 
> We recently used it to knock up a slury which got thinking about the backgrounds and an waterproof alternative to grout.


Thats the issue I guess, most job specific products tend to only really work well in the field they're designed for. Fibreglass will seal a viv well but takes a lot of effort to get looking good, have you though about using it? can be integrated into a fake background too. I was looking into this stuff

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ronseal-ILR750-Isoflex-Liquid-Rubber/dp/B001GU4E1E

as far as I can work out from safety sheets and so on when it is cured it's totally safe and sounds perfect for my uses, plus has been used by others in certain viv sealing solutions. May be worth a look, it's cheaper than G4 too lol.

If you do find out anything about the longevity of G4 in vivarium conditions please let me know, i'm interested to see what others say

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> Thats the issue I guess, most job specific products tend to only really work well in the field they're designed for. Fibreglass will seal a viv well but takes a lot of effort to get looking good, have you though about using it? can be integrated into a fake background too. I was looking into this stuff
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ronseal-ILR750-Isoflex-Liquid-Rubber/dp/B001GU4E1E
> 
> ...


Yeah this is very true, obviously it is designed to serve its purpose not for mutters that keep these silly little animals and want to spend their weekends in the garage building backgrounds and vivariums. I will look into it further though because they do clear as well as coloured. I like the idea of mixing it into a slurry for the background, it could work well.

That rubber looks good, def keep me posted on how it works and what it looks like. Pics are always welcome.

As for fibre glass I have only ever used it once and it was a bit of a pain. This said once it was finished it is rock hard and def water tight. Pretty odourless when dry too. Unlike done sealants or varnishes that can still smell for weeks after when our under heat. It is fairly easy to sand but not carve. I would have thought the best way would be to make a mould take it out of the viv and then fibre glass it.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Yeah this is very true, obviously it is designed to serve its purpose not for mutters that keep these silly little animals and want to spend their weekends in the garage building backgrounds and vivariums. I will look into it further though because they do clear as well as coloured. I like the idea of mixing it into a slurry for the background, it could work well.
> 
> That rubber looks good, def keep me posted on how it works and what it looks like. Pics are always welcome.
> 
> As for fibre glass I have only ever used it once and it was a bit of a pain. This said once it was finished it is rock hard and def water tight. Pretty odourless when dry too. Unlike done sealants or varnishes that can still smell for weeks after when our under heat. It is fairly easy to sand but not carve. I would have thought the best way would be to make a mould take it out of the viv and then fibre glass it.


With the fibreglass, I was thinking about having a go on a bigger viv, I was going to approach it in the same way I used to do my car subwoofer installs, i.e. use fleece stretched over timber supports for my base then glass sheeting and resing to continue. probably be able to use moulds for specific high detail areas and so on, just not sure how natural looking i could make it. Every other time i've used it it's been to create flowing curves and straight(ish) edges, not a naturally rocky appearance. Just to seal a viv should be a piece of cake though, so if all you're looking to do is seal the viv then build your background, this could be a real good solution for ya 

If you fancy mixing a slurry and pasting it on your backgrounds or even just the whole viv, try looking into epoxy resin. For your background it can be mixed with sand and looks absolutely amazing if done correctly (trial and error with this i'm afraid) and is guaranteed waterproof, provided you give it a couple of coats before your final coat of epoxy smothered it in sand. Also as a straightforward viv sealer it's highly effective.

As far as the rubber goes, the build i'm (supposedly) in the middle of (don't believe it, i've finished one other one and messed about with two more since starting it!) is going to be sealed with it. I'll let you know how it goes (although this could be 2025 by the time i do :lol2

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> With the fibreglass, I was thinking about having a go on a bigger viv, I was going to approach it in the same way I used to do my car subwoofer installs, i.e. use fleece stretched over timber supports for my base then glass sheeting and resing to continue. probably be able to use moulds for specific high detail areas and so on, just not sure how natural looking i could make it. Every other time i've used it it's been to create flowing curves and straight(ish) edges, not a naturally rocky appearance. Just to seal a viv should be a piece of cake though, so if all you're looking to do is seal the viv then build your background, this could be a real good solution for ya
> 
> If you fancy mixing a slurry and pasting it on your backgrounds or even just the whole viv, try looking into epoxy resin. For your background it can be mixed with sand and looks absolutely amazing if done correctly (trial and error with this i'm afraid) and is guaranteed waterproof, provided you give it a couple of coats before your final coat of epoxy smothered it in sand. Also as a straightforward viv sealer it's highly effective.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough it was the same application that I used the fibre glass for. Can give a great finish if you are looking for a smooth result. Like you say though as a simple waterproof layer this would work well but I am sure that with a bit of time and preparation before hand you could get a great background too.

I had thought about epoxy originally but no one mentions using it or even suggested it on gear so kind of dismissed it. As for adding sand this would give a great effect for rock faces for desert scenes but unsure it would work with the plans I had, though possible could have been achieved by reducing the amount of sand.

As for you using the rubber, pull your finger out and get it done! Lol. Sounds like your easily distracted like me lol. Keen to know how it works out.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Funnily enough it was the same application that I used the fibre glass for. Can give a great finish if you are looking for a smooth result. Like you say though as a simple waterproof layer this would work well but I am sure that with a bit of time and preparation before hand you could get a great background too.
> 
> I had thought about epoxy originally but no one mentions using it or even suggested it on gear so kind of dismissed it. As for adding sand this would give a great effect for rock faces for desert scenes but unsure it would work with the plans I had, though possible could have been achieved by reducing the amount of sand.
> 
> As for you using the rubber, pull your finger out and get it done! Lol. Sounds like your easily distracted like me lol. Keen to know how it works out.


Epoxy is used quite often......it doesn't pop up all the time because quite often it's people second chocie after varnish or other methods doesn't work lol. Jay (pendragon) in particular did a very nice build using it that I remember. 

Are you planning a full size background, or a full build that covers most of the internal parts of the viv, or just a few bits? And what are your plans for a background? Eco earth or rock effect, or something else entirely?

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> Epoxy is used quite often......it doesn't pop up all the time because quite often it's people second chocie after varnish or other methods doesn't work lol. Jay (pendragon) in particular did a very nice build using it that I remember.
> 
> Are you planning a full size background, or a full build that covers most of the internal parts of the viv, or just a few bits? And what are your plans for a background? Eco earth or rock effect, or something else entirely?
> 
> Dave


I have actually already started a build and posted a thread 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=10438189

Really only a starter build to test and and learn a few things. The next build will be bigger and better. ( hopefully )

Let know your thoughts and any suggestions you have. Progress had slowed due to work commitments unfortunately so still alot to do. I have another rock face in the it's initial stages that will create a hangover and provide more climbing surface etc.

As for the epoxy I should probably have looked more in to it as I may well be back one of those using it to solve the problems lol


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> I have actually already started a build and posted a thread
> 
> Reptile Forums - View Single Post - First viv build!!
> 
> ...


Create a hangover? Lol alcoholic backgrounds, sounds like the way forwards!! Lol i remember seeing your build thread now, and being impressed with it, especially with the front and top opening design

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> Create a hangover? Lol alcoholic backgrounds, sounds like the way forwards!! Lol i remember seeing your build thread now, and being impressed with it, especially with the front and top opening design
> 
> Dave


Well it would certainly lead to some interesting lizard behaviours! Lol the idea is to create a bit more depth further up the viv.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Jimma said:


> Well it would certainly lead to some interesting lizard behaviours! Lol the idea is to create a bit more depth further up the viv.


Little bit like this










?

Dave


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## Jimma (Jul 24, 2012)

my_shed said:


> Little bit like this
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the kinda of idea.

Is that one of yours?


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