# EPS Flyer



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi, 

The campaign for European Protected Species is currently underway.

We have downloadable images that you can print off and slip into an envelope and send to the minister who is in charge of the slaughterings and now we have a flyer.

But please be warned the flyer is not for the soft at heart.

There will of course be a civilised versions for retailers and societies alike that are not perhaps as forward thinking as PKL.

Images found here:

Pro Keepers Lobby | "Left Wing Right Politics!"

Flyer found here:

http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/EPS%20Campaign/get%20away%20with%20murder.pdf

For all those who originally signed up to the Pro Keepers Lobby, could you please assist us further by filling out the details found in this link:

Http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/membership.htm and should you get an email regarding this later this week, please ignore that. Many Thanks.

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

I'll be back after work to fill stuff in!
Ally


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Personally I can see that alienating anyone who it is sent to.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Okay*

In some respects Fixx, you are right and as l have said already this is for a different market. We currently have [again as said] a version being drawn up now that is specifically for retailers and societies alike which is calmer and more sedate as well as still delivering the message in a direct fashion.

R


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

do you know your sites down cant get on it 
Clare


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Sites Down*

Yes.

This is due to the server l am with working on upgrades. Have been doing so for most of this month and yes it is quite possibly the most frustrating thing on the planet.

The other night all my sites went down for an hour!

Still only two nights ago l was told that all my sites had simply vanished.

However they tell me that all will be sorted by the end of September, l hope this is the case.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*As Promised*

Here is the second flyer, the one we would like to see adopted by the retail market, society level, manufacturers, wholesalers and distributers:

http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/EPS Campaign/EPS_Did_You_Know.pdf

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

seems like here rory, we always have a grandfather exemption. that sucks that they would go retro on people.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> In some respects Fixx, you are right and as l have said already this is for a different market. We currently have [again as said] a version being drawn up now that is specifically for retailers and societies alike which is calmer and more sedate as well as still delivering the message in a direct fashion.
> 
> R


The problem is that all your flyers and banners targeted to the more conservative market (which is probably the majority) lead back to your main site that has the advertisements featuring profanity and double entendre obscenity prominently displayed. That's what I mean when I say I think they're counter productive to a wider campaign.

None of the images and such offend me personally. I just see the potential for them to offend would be supporters who will either just ignore everything beyond that point because they're offended or assume you're an extremist rights campaigner and ignore everything further because of that. I understand their power as campaigning and advertising tools and I know such tactics work if properly targeted. You seem to be going for the carpet bombing approach rather than targeted strikes though, and that always causes more collateral damage you could do without. 

If you're going to put them on the site, create a section for banners/flyers on the images page and put them there under a content advisory warning, not rammed into every available space on every page. To be honest, on some pages, I find the content sparse and hard to follow because you've tried to put as many large images into the main text body as you can fit. You don't need them crammed into every page on the PKL site because, in short, you don’t need to advertise the site to people that are already there. You should focus on conveying information in an easy to follow format, with good layouts and easy to follow links on the site rather than using it to display heavy handed marketing tactics that are better focused in other places.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

HABU said:


> seems like here rory, we always have a grandfather exemption. that sucks that they would go retro on people.


You've hit the nail on the head. If there had been some sort of 'grandfather' clause that ensured the safety of the millions of animals already in long term captivity in Britain, it would solve ALL the problems with the EPS legislations. We live on an island with no direct access to the native habitats of these animals so the implimentation of these laws should have been more focused on controlling future imports than persecuting existing keepers.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

like here, i can buy a perfectly legal eastern indigo, for example. as long as it came from C.B. stock and the originals where presumed to have been collected pre-ban. i could buy it legally,and all i would be required to have by law, would be a stack of $20 bills. the keepers are always given the benifit of the doubt as far as origins are concerned. it's CB and fromCB stock, because i say it is. some places you need a permit, but that's just some form and a small fee. now maybe people see why i can be a little bent when i hear all this regulation talk over there. it's just not right. the spca here are mostly geared to dogs and cats. reptiles, who cares!


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Two More Flyers - Clean but mysterious*

Two more from the PKL PR Team and support

1] I thank T.T for recognition of inspiration, - the truth is out there my friend and we will find it.

http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/EPS%20Campaign/EPS-or-ESP.pdf

2] Museum archives oh goody

http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/EPS Campaign/nobody_knows_EPS.pdf

DEFRA you have one hell of lot of explaining to do!!

Call yourself regulative??

Crikey whatever else are you hiding?


Rory Matier

Pro Keepers' Lobby


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Flyers update*

Please see here:

Pro Keepers Lobby | "Left Wing Right Politics!"

Plus an EPS FAQ

Pro Keepers Lobby | "Left Wing Right Politics!"

Rory

PKL


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Evening everyone, Just had a look at the retail flyer, (My personal opinon coming up and I stand ready for the customary shooting down in flames) 
A good flyer, but the first two paragraphs dont sound right to me, and in my opinion have the potential to lead anyone who doesnt investigate further down the wrong path. ​ 

_"From _
​_August 21st 2007, hundreds of species of_​_European animals are now illegal to own_
_without a license - even if you’ve had them_

_for years. _​

_If you don’t have proof of origins -_
_that your animals are __captive_

_bred __or __imported from outside_
_the EU__… you might not be able_
_to get a license."_​
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Heres my interpretation of the EPS and how I feel those paragraphs could be worded... 

*"From **August 21st 2007, hundreds of species of*
*Wild Caught European animals are now illegal to own*

*without a license - even if you’ve had them*
*for years.*​



*Captive Bred animals are exempt from licensing BUT...*

*If you don’t have proof of origins -*
*that your animals are **captive*

*bred **or **imported from outside*
*the EU**… you may face prosecution."* ​


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*mmm*

Evening Pink, 

Your interpretation would make the British Keeper guilty then?


When in reality it is not the genuine UK keeper that is guilty but those who caught the animals, and sold them to the UK buyers surely?

UK has not been part of the EPS for 13 years, so whilst they were wild caught over there, they were legal in British soil.

The changes to the flyer would mean that we deliberately knew we were dealing in w/c European species and as such would make us guilty, when in reality, the guilty ones are not the keepers innocence?

R


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

I wouldnt be happy handing out a flyer that could be misunderstood, If this is to be a flyer to raise public awareness then it should be correct and give the reader the information they need.
_August 21st 2007, hundreds of species of_​_European animals are now illegal to own_
_without a license - even if you’ve had them_
_for years. - *Yes but only wild caught animals that were obtained inside the EU after 1994,*_


_If you don’t have proof of origins -_
_that your animals are __captive_
_bred __or __imported from outside_
_the EU__… you might not be able_
_to get a license." - *If your animals are captive bred or imported from outside the EU you have no reason to obtain a licence* _

*The point shoule be made that, should someone be accused of owning a wild caught animal obtained after 1994 from inside the EU then the onus will be on them to prove to court that it is either captive bred or was legally obtained prior to 1994 or is from outside the EU.* 

I think by taking this approach it would make it very easy for the reader to quickly grasp, exactly if they and their animals are affected without any misunderstandings. I think the average shop keeper after having to explain to the hundred'th or so tortoise owner that if they have their article 10's then they are safe and that they dont need a licence would soon get cheesed off with spending hours of their time explaining this to worried keepers. This leaflet should do that job for them if they are to adopt it succesfully.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

pink said:


> I wouldnt be happy handing out a flyer that could be misunderstood, If this is to be a flyer to raise public awareness then it should be correct and give the reader the information they need.
> _August 21st 2007, hundreds of species of_​_European animals are now illegal to own_
> _without a license - even if you’ve had them_
> _for years. - *Yes but only wild caught animals that were obtained inside the EU after 1994,*_
> ...


There are a few things you need to consider. Firstly, the law assumes that your animal is wild caught within the EU after 1994 and therefore illegal unless you can prove otherwise. That means that ownership is illegal by default and requires a licence unless "a relevant defence applies" as Defra worded it. The animal being captive bred is considered a relevant defence, not the default state.

The other thing is the impression the flyer creates. If someone sees "_*If your animals are captive bred or imported from outside the EU you have no reason to obtain a licence"* _and the seller told them their animal was captive bred when they bought it for years ago, then they'll just ignore the rest and assume it doesn't apply to them. Making them worried makes them take notice, read more carefully, and then look into the issue. They'll ask about it and maybe even mention it to others. If they glance at a flyer, assume it doesn't concern them and then ignore or discard it, it was just a waste of paper.

All the nitty gritty details are available on the website it directs them too. The flyer is designed to grab enough attention to make them ask about it or go to the site for more info. We can fit an entire article on a flyer.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

Onissarle said:


> There are a few things you need to consider. Firstly, the law assumes that your animal is wild caught within the EU after 1994 and therefore illegal unless you can prove otherwise. That means that ownership is illegal by default and requires a licence unless "a relevant defence applies" as Defra worded it. The animal being captive bred is considered a relevant defence, not the default state.
> 
> The other thing is the impression the flyer creates. If someone sees "_*If your animals are captive bred or imported from outside the EU you have no reason to obtain a licence"* _and the seller told them their animal was captive bred when they bought it for years ago, then they'll just ignore the rest and assume it doesn't apply to them. Making them worried makes them take notice, read more carefully, and then look into the issue. They'll ask about it and maybe even mention it to others. If they glance at a flyer, assume it doesn't concern them and then ignore or discard it, it was just a waste of paper.
> 
> All the nitty gritty details are available on the website it directs them too. The flyer is designed to grab enough attention to make them ask about it or go to the site for more info. We can fit an entire article on a flyer.


Dammit, I mean we CAN'T fit an entire article on to a flyer.

That was an annoying typo.


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