# Octopus breeders in UK?



## MadAboutPythons

I'm extremely interested in keeping an octopus. I have the money to provide the correct environment and required live food and have the time to care for it properly. The difficult part is actually trying to track one down! I've tried several sources but no luck yet. Does anyone know of any breeders based in the UK? These guys don't travel too well so would HAVE to be the UK.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!


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## Fargle

What species are you looking for?

If you're willing to slap a cooler onto the tank then you could keep a local species quite easily. O. vulgaris is a lone, and slightly larger local species that can be kept in captivity. 









The other is E. cirrhosa, a little smaller and actually fairly communal.










The being communal part of it is why (to the best of my knowledge) you won't find a breeder for octopus. Nearly every species will rip another octopus apart in captivity. I'm talking, instantly, without fail. The chances of getting the animals in a big enough environment, at the right time of their maturity cycles and allowing them to do what they need to do is nearly impossible. Coupled with the fact that very few people in the world have even got octopus through from egg to adult. It requires lots of time, money and effort, university levels.

So, back to the species. If you want a local species you'll have to try and talk to some fisherman. If you're on the south coast there's plenty who use traps for cuttlefish that also trap octopus. They might be able to bring some back for you. Or go and talk to them and see if they occasionally capture any in their type of fishing. Traps would be better, the chances of getting a viable animal from trawling is slim.

If you're looking for a tropical species then you'll have to get friendly with a local fish shop that sells lots of marines. Most likely they'll get their animals from TMC (tropical marine center), a wholesaler for tropical marines. They occasionally have octopus on their lists, but they go really quickly so you'll have to keep pestering the shop to check the lists and order in. If they're ordering in one animal you'll probably have to pay the shipping, unless the shop is near Manchester, Bristol or Chorleywood. The postage on a small, relatively cheap animal (think 10's, not 100's of pounds) is going to be the major cost.

These animals will have come from the wild, as, like I said, no-one is breeding octopus.


An obligatory word of warning though. I know you said you have the time and resources to look after octopus, but what is your experience level in fish keeping? I'm not asking to be mean, it's just there's a reason you don't see them for sale in every aquatic shop next to the guppies, they are extremely hard to keep. I have worked in aquatics for over a decade and have only encountered them during my time in public aquariums. I even did my Masters on ceph's (cuttlefish and squid, which is a whole different kettle of fish!)


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## MadAboutPythons

Wow! Firstly thanks for such an in depth answer. I'm starting to realise that the only way is to have everything set up ready to go and to get into contact with a few fishermen and wait. It makes a lot of sense that as they're lone marine animals a breeder would require massive amounts of space to breed and seperate them for sale, plus the fact they have such short lifespans it's not really viable. Would you be able to elaborate on how difficult they are to keep please? I'm no expert by any means, snakes are my thing, but from the sources I've seen I've got the impression that as long as the owner has the ability to provide the correct setup, live diet and time that they're not overly complicated to someone that does the adequate amount of research. You clearly know you stuff so I'd appreciate your input on this, as I definatley wouldn't want to have one in my care and run into problems potentially harming the animal. Thanks again for your response!


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## MadAboutPythons

Also, I live in South Wales if that helps any.


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## Fargle

Firstly they need impeccable water conditions. They're extremely intolerant to ammonia and nitrite and even low levels of nitrate. You can't keep any other fish in the same tank. I've had a Giant Pacific Octopus (GPO) in a public aquarium that managed to catch and eat mullet within 5 mins of going into the tank. Those fish are quick if you've ever tried to catch one with a net. So you'll have to get the tank up and running and keep it that way for as long as it takes to get an animal, all without using any other animals. (there are some starfish that can go in, but I don't want to confuse matters).

You can use ammonia as a constant source of food for the filter bacteria, it just takes time effort and a fortune in test kits, you'll be testing at least every day! Also cycling the tank is going to be very slow going. You'll want to be keeping it as low as 10C, not much above as the animals get stressed then. Cycling a 10C tank can take months.

I'm sure you're aware that octopus can, and will, ink when they're stressed. In a closed system this is an irritant to them and will kill them. You'll need to run a huge skimmer on the system, spec to twice the capacity of the tank. Also activated carbon, lots and lots of carbon.

They also have very high oxygen requirements, and yet a bubbler in the tank can cause them issues, you'll have to ensure the water being pumped into the tank is as oxygenated as can be.

Again I'm sure you know about they're escape abilities. They can get through gaps you didn't think existed. They can fit through anything that their beak can get through. To give you an idea that GPO mentioned above had a leg span of about 1.8-2m, the beak was only about 6cm wide and 10cm top to bottom.


If you have no fish keeping experience I really, really wouldn't start with an octopus. It's going to end in tears. I'd get some experience of aquatics keeping first, to get your skill and knowledge of water chemistry and fish husbandry up. Give it a year of a "normal" tank and then re-evaluate if you want to move on to a cephalopod. 

A good middle ground is to buy a tank and filter system that can be used for an octopus, plus the chiller, and then go scavenge on your local shore. Keeping a temperate set up is incredible rewarding. The animals are free and because they're typically rock pool species they're extremely tolerant to environmental changes. When they get too big, or you want a changes, you just throw them back!

Also, if you have the tank and the chiller, the filter will all be alive and running, so you can just turf everything out and plop an octopus in there.


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## wilkinss77

Fargle said:


> What species are you looking for?
> 
> If you're willing to slap a cooler onto the tank then you could keep a local species quite easily. O. vulgaris is a lone, and slightly larger local species that can be kept in captivity. The other is E. cirrhosa, a little smaller and actually fairly communal.
> 
> The being communal part of it is why (to the best of my knowledge) you won't find a breeder for octopus. Nearly every species will rip another octopus apart in captivity. I'm talking, instantly, without fail. The chances of getting the animals in a big enough environment, at the right time of their maturity cycles and allowing them to do what they need to do is nearly impossible. Coupled with the fact that very few people in the world have even got octopus through from egg to adult. It requires lots of time, money and effort, university levels.
> 
> So, back to the species. If you want a local species you'll have to try and talk to some fisherman. If you're on the south coast there's plenty who use traps for cuttlefish that also trap octopus. They might be able to bring some back for you. Or go and talk to them and see if they occasionally capture any in their type of fishing. Traps would be better, the chances of getting a viable animal from trawling is slim.
> 
> If you're looking for a tropical species then you'll have to get friendly with a local fish shop that sells lots of marines. Most likely they'll get their animals from TMC (tropical marine centre), a wholesaler for tropical marines. They occasionally have octopus on their lists, but they go really quickly so you'll have to keep pestering the shop to check the lists and order in. If they're ordering in one animal you'll probably have to pay the shipping, unless the shop is near manchester, bristol or chorelywood. The postage on a small, relatively cheap animal (think 10's, not 100's of pounds) is going to be the major cost.
> 
> These animals will have come from the wild, as, like I said, no-one is breeding octopus.
> 
> 
> An obligatory word of warning though. I know you said you have the time and resources to look after octopus, but what is your experience level in fish keeping? I'm not asking to be mean, it's just there's a reason you don't see them for sale in every aquatic shop next to the guppies, they are extremely hard to keep. I have worked in aquatics for over a decade and have only encountered them during my time in public aquariums. I even did my Masters on ceph's (cuttlefish and squid, which is a whole different kettle of fish!)


I have seen tropical octopi for sale on numerous occasions in different shops, but they're only available every once in a blue moon, it seems.



MadAboutPythons said:


> Wow! Firstly thanks for such an in depth answer. I'm starting to realise that the only way is to have everything set up ready to go and to get into contact with a few fishermen and wait. It makes a lot of sense that as they're lone marine animals a breeder would require massive amounts of space to breed and seperate them for sale, plus the fact they have such short lifespans it's not really viable. Would you be able to elaborate on how difficult they are to keep please? I'm no expert by any means, snakes are my thing, but from the sources I've seen I've got the impression that as long as the owner has the ability to provide the correct setup, live diet and time that they're not overly complicated to someone that does the adequate amount of research. You clearly know you stuff so I'd appreciate your input on this, as I definatley wouldn't want to have one in my care and run into problems potentially harming the animal. Thanks again for your response!


They really are short-lived, too- is it really worth setting up a tank for an animal that at best will only live for a year or so? They live for around 2 years- but that's from birth, & any you get will be adult.


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## Fargle

wilkinss77 said:


> I have seen tropical octopi for sale on numerous occasions in different shops, but they're only available every once in a blue moon, it seems.


Just to be "that guy", but the proper pluralisation of octopus is octopuses, not octopi. Octopod is a Greek derived word, whereas the pluralisation suffix " i " is derived from Latin. Believe me, it matters to marine biologists.

Also yes I didn't mention the short life spans. As you said most animals you'd be able to get hold of would be adult or vary near adults. The females lay eggs whether they've been with a male or not (infertile eggs, obviously). They lay them in a cave or quite corner and spend the rest of their days blowing water over them and cleaning/protecting them. She'll die by not eating or moving around. The males have it even harder, when they get to the end of their lives they simply start falling apart! 

With a small topical octopus, you might get a year or 18 months from it, tops. A smaller specimen from a local coast miiiiiight make 2 years.


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