# 2 1/2 foot tank



## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

hey after getting a new tank it has 2 plecos (common) 4 clown loach, 6 neon tetra's and 5 guppies, any advice on what to do? show i keep all them fish and add more and bring them all the pet store and start fresh??? will the fish i have be alright together???


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

your gonna get told to mover them plecos and clowns to a much larger tank mate.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

yeah man a friend had this tank but was movin away so i took it,any fish u recommend


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## ChloEllie (Jul 18, 2009)

lol upgrade the plecs and loaches when they r bigger...sorry lol had to.
id chuck in a load of guppies and neons in something that small, make it bright and pretty.
then either do cichlid tank with the plecs and loaches ...although depends how big u wana go. 
iv never had a tank less than 100g so tbh iv never had a prob with having something outgrow my tank. 
but i shall add, when mate (my common plec lol) passed he was a healthy 2ft and he didnt die of natural causes, so he would of had a lot more growing to do.
x


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

with in the next week or 2 i'll be gettin a juwel trigon 350, would they be ok in that???


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Praying_Mantis24 said:


> with in the next week or 2 i'll be gettin a juwel trigon 350, would they be ok in that???


Not really, although slow growing the clown loaches should be kept in a shoal. They have active periods during the day and they'll grow to around 11" to 12". How many foot long fish do you imagine in the trigon? The plec will grow even larger.

Rehome them. You have loads of other possibilities in a 350 litre tank.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

what would u say for the 350 tank?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Praying_Mantis24 said:


> what would u say for the 350 tank?


I'd say my taste in fish may be very different from yours. So I'd go to your local library and get your hands on some good books. Have a look through and see what YOU like the look of. Once you've an idea of what you'd like to keep, come back on here with some ideas and we may be able to let you know if they're suitable, compatible and ideal etc.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

cool mate thanks alot


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

oh blah blah blah, the "clown loaches can grow to over a foot long!" saying once again!!!

I would keep the clowns and get some more, I had 8 in a 3 foot long tank, all between an inch and 4 inches and some of them were over 4 years old!

Clowns are one of my favourite tropical fish and i wouldnt hesitate having them just because they get so big, I would only worry about their size if and when it happens.

Who on here has any clowns that outgrew their tanks????


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

alpharoyals said:


> oh blah blah blah, the "clown loaches can grow to over a foot long!" saying once again!!!


*Again *eh??? Wonder if thats 'cos it's true? Maybe? Possibly?

Chromobotia macracanthus, Clown loach : fisheries, aquarium




alpharoyals said:


> I would keep the clowns and get some more, I had 8 in a 3 foot long tank, all between an inch and 4 inches and some of them were over 4 years old!


Hmmm, could this be because a tiny 3' tank is stunting their growth? And the keeper don't know what he's doing so that they are not growing as they should? You really couldn't grow on a clown loach more than 1 inch in 4 years? You must be a very good fish keeper. Well done! :2thumb:



alpharoyals said:


> Clowns are one of my favourite tropical fish and i wouldnt hesitate having them just because they get so big, I would only worry about their size if and when it happens.


Would stunted fish outgrow their tank? Hate to think how you treat your fish that are not one of your favourites mate? :bash:



alpharoyals said:


> Who on here has any clowns that outgrew their tanks????


Just a thought, but shouldn't your fish be rehoused BEFORE they outgrow your tank? Or is that just being plain sensible?

People are quick to slate reptile shops on here that don't care for their animals, but aquarium fish have it even worse in the hobby. As proven by this self styled aquatic guru. Shame.....


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

easy lads.....why cant we all just get along lol


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Praying_Mantis24 said:


> easy lads.....why cant we all just get along lol


 
LOL, Go on the PFK forum or Seriouslyfish forum and get some advise from people who know what they're talking about. There is a specialised loach forum, but can't remember what it's called. They'll see you right and tell you what you need to know.


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## Fly Eater (Sep 1, 2009)

Index :: Loach Forum for Aquarium Fish
or
Practical Fishkeeping Forum

good for loaches or general fish keeping

A very small group of clowns is OK in a 4 footer in my opinion until they are about 6/7". I rarely see clown loachies bigger than 7/8", even in spacious 8' tanks. They are slow growing, especially near maturity. 
They can grow 30cm obviously as this is stated everywhere, but only in very big aquariums or in the wild. 
8 Clown loaches in a 3' tank (posted by someone) is very excessive I think.

As for 'common' plecs could we have a pic or two? 
Ancistrus Sp., Glyptoperichthys Gibbiceps & Hypostomus Plecostomus are all occasionally put under the name of 'Common Plecs'

For the plecs (depending on species) I'd recommend a 5 footer tank... more if your 2 plecs don't get on (like some gibbceps)


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

yeah i'll up a pic in a bit, i was told the common plecs but i dont know


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Ive got a 9" Clown (and smaller),and its still growing.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

he's the pic


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Fly Eater said:


> Index :: Loach Forum for Aquarium Fish
> or
> Practical Fishkeeping Forum
> 
> ...


 
Clowns are slow growing as per my earlier post. They're also either wild caught or farmed using hormone injections. This makes them expensive to produce. So large fish are very expensive. The few 10 to 12" fish I have seen imported had a retail value of around £80 and thus few LFS stock them as few people want them. Thats the real reason why you don't see many big clowns around.

Not because they grow small naturally. It's a sad fact also, that many are bought and inadequately housed resulting in stunted fish. Hence my rant earlier! It annoys me to read such poor advice. Especially the I've done it so it must be OK mentality type.


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## Fly Eater (Sep 1, 2009)

> he's the pic


 Hypostomus plecostomus, gets up to about 50cm I think. Big tank for those two will be needed O.O



> Clowns are slow growing as per my earlier post. They're also either wild caught or farmed using hormone injections. This makes them expensive to produce. So large fish are very expensive. The few 10 to 12" fish I have seen imported had a retail value of around £80 and thus few LFS stock them as few people want them. Thats the real reason why you don't see many big clowns around.
> 
> Not because they grow small naturally. It's a sad fact also, that many are bought and inadequately housed resulting in stunted fish. Hence my rant earlier! It annoys me to read such poor advice. Especially the I've done it so it must be OK mentality type.


 Have to support your advice, clowns are active and curious =P. A fish tank can be to small but not too big



> I'd say my taste in fish may be very different from yours


 I personally like cod =]

People with large tanks can also stunt their fish through bad water quality and incorrect feeding.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

well i put up a new post on my maybe "new tank" still not sure let me know what u think guys


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## ChloEllie (Jul 18, 2009)

alpharoyals said:


> oh blah blah blah, the "clown loaches can grow to over a foot long!" saying once again!!!
> 
> I would keep the clowns and get some more, I had 8 in a 3 foot long tank, all between an inch and 4 inches and some of them were over 4 years old!
> 
> ...


thats called stunting


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## ChloEllie (Jul 18, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> *Again *eh??? Wonder if thats 'cos it's true? Maybe? Possibly?
> 
> Chromobotia macracanthus, Clown loach : fisheries, aquarium
> 
> ...


lol perfect answers...actually explains quite a lot.

i have 8 plecs in the same tank. LOADS of bogwood/hiding places.

my 2ft com just got in a strop when i put a gibb in with him...i was taking a big gamble with him...but was all good in the end.
id say keep the plecs for a while just because i love plecs and i find them lovely BUT dont want it stunted and dont want you to end up taking them to a zoo coz no one wants big plecs.

get an ancistrus...gorgeously cute and get around 5", great colours too.
x


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

you got a pic of your set-up


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

how much water does a three foot tank even hold there?...

... 30?... 40?... 65 gallons?


you can keep a small group of clowns in a 3 foot/65 gallon like mine...

they'll do well and if they start getting too big for the tank, then that's a good problem... big loaches go for a mint here...

... i'd ditch the plecos... set up a community tank... if a 2-1/2-3 foot is of some decent size....

... those clowns will be fat, lazy hogs after a while in a three foot tank... erm,... a 65 u.s. gallon tank like i have...

.... a well planted community tank is a good thing...

Aquarium dimensions - reference
oh and here is a chart for aquariums...

:lol2:: victory:


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

thanks for the reference page man really helpful just have to get measuring tape lol









little pic of set up


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> As proven by this self styled aquatic guru. Shame.....


Did I say the 1" clowns were four years old, NO!

And what make you think you are any more of an expert than me? do you know me??? 



MJ75 said:


> LOL, Go on the PFK forum or Seriouslyfish forum and get some advise from people who know what they're talking about.


How would you know they are experts???



HABU said:


> you can keep a small group of clowns in a 3 foot/65 gallon like mine...


Careful Habu they will get the fish police on to you! :whistling2:

Right "experts" answer this, There is a myth that fish will only grow to the size of their surroundings, right? well how am I going to stunt a fishes growth when they outgrow there surroundings???

Does this look like a tank that is kept by someone who doesnt know what he is doing?









and how the hell am I going to stunt a 1" fishes growth when the tank is 36" long!!! or for that even a 4" fish.
Do these look stunted, underweight malnurished fish to you?




















> Just a thought, but shouldn't your fish be rehoused BEFORE they outgrow your tank? Or is that just being plain sensible?


Now your just being a sarcastic, how old are you by the way, 10???


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

I think you shoud reread your post. The lack of respect towards animal welfare tells me all I need to know. The fact that you base your argument on your own experience and seem blinkered to other peoples experiences with these fish tells me how much of an expert you are.

P.S Try some Fertil CAPS or similar around the Nymphae sp. You might get better growth then. God knows why you've planted it in the foreground though? Your tank will look crap when it eventualy takes off. You'll learn with more experience though mate. Cheers


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

HABU said:


> how much water does a three foot tank even hold there?...
> 
> ... 30?... 40?... 65 gallons?
> 
> ...


Obviously it depends on the dimensions but most measure 36" x 15" x 12". So they're a lot smaller than yours. A lot of people buy them believing they're a big tank as they tend to compare them to nano's etc which have become very fashionable over the last few years. Over here our LFS tend to stock many fish like clowns, oscars, pangasius species and common plecs at small sizes. So many people buy them thinking they're "big" 3 footer will be OK for them. Then obviously the fish end up stunted, dead or end up back at the lfs. 

I was in Miami last year and visited a fish shop there. One of the staff was telling a customer that the Pangasius sutchi would only grow to 6" in her tank. So it seems you've got the same problems over there than we have here.


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> How would you know they are experts???


It doesn't take Albert Einstein to figure this one out, they can back up their posts and advice with SOLID facts. 

A 1ft fish in a 3ft tank is not what I would describe as suitable or recommendable, you can quite easily call that 'stunting'. Whether it is intentional or not, cruelty through ignorance is still cruelty, especially when the facts are clearly obvious. 

Take a look at this ---> Clown Loach (Chromobotia macracanthus) — Loaches Online

The pictures speak volumes in themselves.... :whistling2:


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

pretty nice tank tho


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Praying_Mantis24 said:


> pretty nice tank tho


Indeed, it's a beautiful aquarium however that isn't really the point. Clown loaches CAN and WILL grow to at least 25-30cm/10-12" in length and require a tank no smaller than 5 x 2 x 2ft once they are fully grown.


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> I think you shoud reread your post. The lack of respect towards animal welfare tells me all I need to know. The fact that you base your argument on your own experience and seem blinkered to other peoples experiences with these fish tells me how much of an expert you are.
> 
> P.S Try some Fertil CAPS or similar around the Nymphae sp. You might get better growth then. God knows why you've planted it in the foreground though? Your tank will look crap when it eventualy takes off. You'll learn with more experience though mate. Cheers


Im not claiming to be an expert, people come on here for advice and people share their experiences, end of!

And I have planted my plants where I want them, not where YOU think they should go!

On the other hand you are claiming to be an expert about clown loaches, now plants just because you know a few latin name, ooh go you big man.....your even telling someone what to do with their goldfish, why should they trust you, your not an expert?


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> why should they trust you, your not an expert?


Neither are you when you think about it, however we're not moaning and we're not proclaiming ourselves experts, merely pointing out the FACTS.

Responsibility and common sense certainly are lacking nowadays...


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

Pleccy said:


> A 1ft fish in a 3ft tank is not what I would describe as suitable or recommendable


Sorry that was suposed to read 1" (inch) :blush:


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Cant be arsed to join in the bitching,but heres some pics of one of my bigger clowns,that i rehomed from a 30" tank ironically....

























At least 9",thats an adult Parrot for comparison in the foreground.My tank sounds like a gunfight at night when their feeding,and ive watched the clowns chase and grab smaller fish in their mouths.(only big fish now)


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Also MJ75 has been a staff member on a couple of respected internet forums, and owns an aquatics business which just so happens to specialize in plants.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

nice clown never seen any that big


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks.I think that was the point being made before all the handbags came out.The only thing id say is,although i dont agree with the mentality of "oh well ill get rid when its too big",big clowns are one of the few fish easy to re-home,always desirable.


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Berber King said:


> Thanks.I think that was the point being made before all the handbags came out.The only thing id say is,although i dont agree with the mentality of "oh well ill get rid when its too big",big clowns are one of the few fish easy to re-home,always desirable.


Yes but the problem is not everyone has the space for a 6ft tank.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

alpharoyals said:


> Im not claiming to be an expert, people come on here for advice and people share their experiences, end of!
> 
> And I have planted my plants where I want them, not where YOU think they should go!
> 
> On the other hand you are claiming to be an expert about clown loaches, now plants just because you know a few latin name, ooh go you big man.....your even telling someone what to do with their goldfish, why should they trust you, your not an expert?


This is the problem with forum debates, before long the discussion is tainted with ego. The who's an expert, who the most well endowned argument means that sensible discussion ends.

I know how big clowns grow. I know that they should be kept in groups and need a tank much bigger than you suggest. I know that your fish are not growing well, based on YOUR comments.

I know that someone who appears not to know what plants they have is not an aquatics expert. And in a few months you'll understand when your lily has taken over your tank making it look cack. I can also tell that the plants are not very well established and some look like they've been planted very recently. So I know I have experience. I know that an aquarist should think long term, for example how both they're fish and plants will end up!!!

I know that you're tank is not well established and so I can't say it's a tank belonging to someone who knows what they are doing. But I can see you have too many Rams in there. When they grow they will become territorial and some will probably be killed. So I don't see you as an expert. Or even an experienced fish keeper. Nothing personal....

And I also know that your Barryancistrus lurking in there will potentially outgrow your tank as some regional variants grow to over a foot and really need a six foot tank for their long term care. I suspect you don't know which one it is though? But please prove me wrong. I also hope you know how hard these are to raise and feed properly?

So I suspect you don't know an awful lot about fishkeeping based on your posts on this thread alone. 

I also know and hate pointless arguments that come down to the "I know more than you because I've done it but I have no real clue or factual evidence to back up what I'm saying so I'll poost blah, blah, blah and hope that this masks my inexperience". 

But hey, what do I know?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Pleccy said:


> Indeed, it's a beautiful aquarium however that isn't really the point. Clown loaches CAN and WILL grow to at least 25-30cm/10-12" in length and require a tank no smaller than 5 x 2 x 2ft once they are fully grown.


 
once they are fully grown... they are old and tired...

can and will are two very different things... people can grow to 7 foot tall...

... whether they will is another thing... how old is a foot long clown loach anyway?... how many years does it take... in optimum conditions to reach that size...?

... how many foot long clowns have you seen this week?...

if i had $1,000 right now... and there... how many footlongs could i buy in the whole of britain today?...


a 6 inch clown is a big one... 12 inches is huge... i wonder how big they get in the wild?.... maybe 2 foot long?...


... clowns do not grow overnight... i don't think many "experts " have even raised a 1/2 inch one all the way to a footer!...

go on!... go call around to the shops and ask them how many foot long clown loaches they have in stock... tell them you need a couple dozen or so... tonight... see how common full grown clowns are...


... clowns will die on you too... just for kicks...


a foot long clown... indeed.... maybe at the zoo or as a cherished pet fish... not a common sight at all...

maybe in the u.k..... not here... we just breed them out doors in ponds down in florida...

... they ain't pulling foot long clowns out like bass down there...


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

I have not once claimed I know more than you, you seem to be the one that claims to have the "bigger manhood"

I have also not suggested you are wrong at any time!

Also can you please point out the parts where you think I suggested anything that was me miss treating or lacking in care towards my fish?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

HABU said:


> once they are fully grown... they are old and tired...
> 
> can and will are two very different things... people can grow to 7 foot tall...
> 
> ...


I think I preffered talking about .243's earlier Habu! lol

You can get big clown here. They'll almost always be a special order in the shops. However I isit a large importer (wholesaler) weekly and it's not uncommon for them to have big fish in. 6" plus etc.

I think the point thats not been made very well by me or others is that they don' need to be a whole 12" for them to be too big for a 30" tank. You know as well as I do that they need to be in a group, and that they're active. So even at 6" or 7" (Which is achievable) they're not suited to this particular tank. i mean can you imagine 6 of these 6" fish in a tiny tank with just 2 and a half square feet of floor space. Plus all the decor in there too!

Anyway, I'm bored now! Night all.


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## Fly Eater (Sep 1, 2009)

I like clown loaches.


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## Praying_Mantis24 (Sep 6, 2009)

i'm not a big fan of them


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