# Member Based Relay/Courier System



## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

*Member based courier service ?*

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 

Or at least a system based around it ?


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## beardo (Aug 6, 2009)

sounds like a great idea :2thumb:


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## HugeHalford (Jan 16, 2010)

:hmm:Don't see why not!!!:2thumb::2thumb:


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## sooty (Dec 31, 2009)

Could work really well!!mellx: victory:


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

OK I appreciate there is a little interest it was similar when we started the ORRP Relay too, I didn’t mention in my first post but I am more than happy to sort out the logistics i.e. the database with names and addresses on and forward it on to those members wishing to be part of this. 

There are also some other issues that need to be covered too and I know this but come on folks this works on so many levels it’s untrue or are you really that mistrusting of your fellow RFUK’ers? 

If you wish to be part of this please post so I know that this suggestion has not fell on deaf ears, also if you think it’s the worst idea in the world why not just say, I can take the criticism as I remember the members reticence about it on ORRP.

I am not trying to steal your pets or equipment away, I am not a scammer nor am I some weirdo (opinion is divided on the weirdo matter though) honestly, I really am simply trying to help with a very sensible contribution and suggestion to the forum.


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

I think it could well work for equipment, but I wouldn't fancy playing pass the parcel with live animals.


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## grannykins (Oct 9, 2006)

And if the animal arrives dead or damaged, where do you go from there? Who is responsible if it has been transported by several different people? Think I'd rather collect myself, or pay a trusted, proven reptile courier.


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

I think it could work very well, the rfuk pony express, I'm not sure how all of the logistical problems could be resolved though.


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

As I said in my first post I know this isn't car parts BUT it certainly will work for equipment as for reps and other animals well let’s just say that it has been known for people to send them by courier and them still arrive dead or damaged.

I feel compelled to say that one trusts a courier to carry an animal yet knows only of them by reputation, surely that applies with the members on the forum too. 

With forum members you have the added bonus of the relative knowledge that we are all animal lovers not out to make money but simply helping others that may not be able to get that vivarium, stat, snake, spider or fluffy from Lands End to Manchester or wherever.

I am more than happy to debate this subject if something positive comes out of it but, I do not wish to get into heated arguments that end with locked threads and nothing achieved apart from people upset with others.


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## grannykins (Oct 9, 2006)

I agree its a good idea to discuss. Even if it does end up just for transporting equipment. There are a few people I would trust with animals. Lots of issues here really, and I will be interested to see how the thread develops. As you say, I dont see any need for heated arguments. : victory:


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

cabrera said:


> I think it could work very well, the rfuk pony express, I'm not sure how all of the logistical problems could be resolved though.


 
Trust me when we set it up on ORRP we had the same thing and yet it works sweet now and logistically it's simply a few posts in a specific part of the forum for the members of the system to see and those willing and able to assist post their abilities.

For example I need a snake picking up from Southampton and I live in Leicester (which I do) I post to the forum something along the lines of ‘Transport Needed between Southampton and Leicester’ those users along the route that are part of the system then say they can do say from Southampton to Newbury but no further, the next poster may be able to do Newbury to Northampton and from there I can collect from them.

A few phone calls and a few posts in a separate forum specifically setup for this purpose makes it a whole lot easier and I will have a word with a moderator to see if this can be arranged if they are willing to help, keep in mind that the owners of RFUK will not be responsible for this you and I as users are taking this on solely to help others.

Thanks for the input folks keep it coming...


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

Gileadites said:


> As I said in my first post I know this isn't car parts BUT it certainly will work for equipment as for reps and other animals well let’s just say that it has been known for people to send them by courier and them still arrive dead or damaged.
> 
> I feel compelled to say that one trusts a courier to carry an animal yet knows only of them by reputation, surely that applies with the members on the forum too.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with what you are saying, as I said in principle for equipment I think its a good idea.

Personally speaking I wouldn't be happy to do it with animals, I won't use couriers for animals either. However thats just my preference and it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't do it.

I have had animals delivered by courier and I must say that they arrived in tip top condition. I wouldn't be comfortable sending my own animals by courier though.


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## moodyblue1969 (Jul 6, 2009)

its a great idea for equipment but for a living animal it wouldnt take much to go wrong and the animal could potentially have its travelling time doubled or worse. i would def do it for equipment though : victory:


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

OK this is great stuff I stand by my original post though and all others thereafter that if it only gets equipment moved thats fine but that it can work for RFUK as a whole not just us legless folks.

Thanks folks you are all stars.....:2thumb:


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

It is in theory a very good idea. So only members of the rfuk pony express could use it? What about insurance etc I dont want to be a kiljoy but god forbid a member has an accident would normal insurance cover the contents they are moving?

Would there be a code of practice for the rfuk pony express? who pays the petrol costs etc?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

It is on a purely voluntary basis which is why the caveat of distance people are willing to travel was put in, the cost of transport kind of covers itself as those members contributing to the system may need something transporting to them so in essence the individual that signs up basically is also saying that they are willing to do it for free.

As for insurance well that’s a bit of a sticky area in so much as most people’s car insurance covers them for contents as long as it’s not for commercial gain which in this case wouldn't be the case but let’s be honest if you hand over let’s say a stat or indeed a vivarium to another member/volunteer you first check the condition and trust all the members in the link not to be idiots and damage someone else’s equipment after all they too could need something at some point.

In addition to this if an item is damaged lets say it has to go through place A to place D those in the middle B and C will check for damage and ensure that it’s noted, remember this is all done through phone calls messages and so on and of course voluntary.

Ok if this is not for this forum I apologise for bringing it up but I do know it works for us on ORRP and I just thought it might help some less fortuitous than others get things from place to place.

Charity starts at home but, it’s always nice to support a community such as this.

:lol2:OMG I am being all defensive and for this I can only apologise...:blush:


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

I was only asking as I think it is a really good idea not trying to make you defensive. You can sign me up and I know a few others who will be really interested they mentioned something similiar not so long ago ill get them to pm you


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

Sounds like a good idea to me mate. Would defo work for equipment. I would maybe think abotu some kind of system that could be put in place to say that the animals have reached each stage of their journey unharmed. 
Maybe some kind of contract thing that the person handing the animal over signs to say that it was handed over in good health then the person taking it from them signs it to say it wsa recieved in good health. That way it may be possible to highlight where the animal took ill or died. 
I know some people will say that it is not worth taking a risk on and that live animals should not be subjected to this kind of treatment but at the end of the day if both parties agree and they are aware of the risk involved then they could both benefit. 
If it you dont want to send live animals then dont. If it becomes a service where people only send equipment then it will still be a huge benefit. 
Good luck with it mate.
Hope it is very successful


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## rangers1690 (Oct 3, 2009)

Tbh with the sending of live animals there would be so many things that could go wrong,that it wouldnt be something that i personally would consider.I would rather use a fully insured and licensed courier,that way if something did go wrong you are covered.It is a very good idea for the transport of equipment though,and i would be more than happy to sign up for it.
Regards Stuart.:2thumb:


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm more than willing to go along with this, but I remember going to buy a boa. When I got there, it was in poor condition with an RI and I refused to take it as it had been mis-represented, I wouldn't want to give another forum member the responsibility of saying no under those circumstances.

I'd happily transport equipment and animals for anyone, but prefer always to collect and deliver my own as far as possible.

That having been said, I'm going to Scales and Tails on Saturday and collecting someone elses snakes.., anybody want anything? lol!


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

A quick note, the code of practice is decided by those that join the system though common sense plays a large part of it and of course my original post also touches on some practical suggestions to a code of practice.

I assume maybe wrongly but most likely not that most of the users have access to a PC at home if not they could simply print off the list once formed at wherever they had or have access to a PC.

We will need a new forum dedicated simply to this and it would need to be a members only type section with rules decided between ourselves and complete compatibility with the forum rules as a whole, then obviously the list shown in its own forum and obviously updated as and when needed with new members.

As for transport of live animals I am unsure as to how to go about it as I kind of thought about it and posted but honestly didn’t think much beyond that however, I personally wouldn’t have a problem with members from this site transporting an animal for me because whilst there are a small minority of undesirables on the whole you, we are all animal lovers and would not see harm come to any animal placed in our care.

I totally understand that people will be reticent about letting someone else transport their animal but let’s not simply dismiss the idea as it may work and as some have said they too like me would have no worries as long as we were happy with the individuals concerned in the actual transportation.

Sorry I just get quite passionate about my idea’s and of course become defensive of them, again I am sorry as it was not meant as a personal attack on you or anyone and please be assured I would not go out of my way to offend anyone.


Which Scales n Tails BTW ?


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

have you pm'd t-bo to see what his views are on the idea?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

Just spent 10 minutes sorting a PM for him regarding it and sent it.

I honestly hope we can get this off the ground as I know how well it works on the other forum i am a member of.

We can but only hope:2thumb:


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

what about posting the same kind of thread in lizzards, equiptment etc? maybe ask forum memebers to pm you so you can start to compile of those who would like to sign up should you be able to get this idea off the ground.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Personally I'd prefer to use DEFRA certified couriers for animals that have the specific insurance.
You'd need to look into what kind of insurance people who are transporting animlas would need and would each one have to have a DEFRA licence just for thier bit of the trip or could you set it up as a company and have a licence for everyone who was effectivly "employed" to transport.


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

It was actually a bit of a tester here and if people thought it a good idea then it becomes a part of RFUK as a whole not just restricted to the snake section.

Literally it be across the board as there thousands of members just like ORRP and things can literally be mentioned in the morning and delivered that very same day due to the members involved and obviously the amounts and kindness of those involved.

As I maintain each member at some point may need the service for themselves so it is in their own interest to get involved and that’s why it's a free service if that makes sense.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

Gileadites said:


> Which Scales n Tails BTW ?


 
Dave Cook, Leicester


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

Hannah81 said:


> Personally I'd prefer to use DEFRA certified couriers for animals that have the specific insurance.
> You'd need to look into what kind of insurance people who are transporting animlas would need and would each one have to have a DEFRA licence just for thier bit of the trip or could you set it up as a company and have a licence for everyone who was effectivly "employed" to transport.


But does this not simply refer to the transport of animals for gain? (I'm not sure, since Cat and Ditta gave up I do all my own transporting)


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

It may quite possibly do as I don't know the rules on having a licence however speaking as a private buyer I would want to know my newly bought animal was couriered by the correctly insured people and would pay to do so.
I am presuming your idea works more on donations to cover fuel costs basically and not making a profit from having a business as a courier.


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## fugitive (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi all

Was just reading through and just thought I'd clarify (as I know a fair bit about this);

This would simply be an available list of site members who'd be willing to travel a short distance, say Leicester to Northants, to transport equipment (vivs etc) and the occasional animal (based on certain proviso's) _not for cash gain_, not even, necessarily for petrol money. Just for the hell of being a nice person with a couple of spare hours in an afternoon helping out a fellow herpetological enthusiast (especially the quite large number of members who do not drive).

Perhaps Courier System wasn't the right phrase. Perhaps Member Relay would have been a better choice. This is OPTIONAL and would not be everyone's choice. Maybe not everyone who joins up _wants _to give an animal a lift but is happy to move a viv, which is totally fine too. There _will_ be some members who are happy to take a well-packaged Corn or Royal or Beadie on a short journey, I can think of a Dozen RFUKers off the top of my head who I'd be happy to have run an animal of mine down a few Motorway Junctions. 

No-one is saying you'd have to use this system for animals. No one would be making any claims of being a transport courier service. It would be your choice to use it but it's an option, eh? All I know is that if a person in London sees a bargain Viv in Brum, it might be nice to know that they don't necessarily have to choose between not having the Viv or travelling a hundred miles to get it. They could use the member relay instead (it might take a week but it'll certainly save you a few bob). 

Just to illustrate quickly; The person with the viv in Brum drops it off to a member in Leicester, who the takes it to a member in Northampton who drops it off at a member in Milton Keynes who then drops it off at the London members house. All at mutually agreeable times. People quite often try and combine these trips to kill a couple of birds with one stone (eg; I've got to go to MK to visit Aunty Mabel so I'll do a leg of the Viv journey while I'm at it....).

All I'd say about insurance/animal transport is; *no one* would be making any claims to be anything other than a nice chap/chapette helping out a buddy so if you, as the animal owner/purchaser, wasn't happy to transport your animal that way then you wouldn't use the relay. Simplez xx


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

*Member Based Courier/Relay System*

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

*Member Based Courier/Relay System*

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

*Member Based Courier/Relay System*

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

*Member Based Courier/Relay System*

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

This is a direct copy of what has been posted in the Snake forum as that's mainly where I can be found.

I have noticed that there are numerous people picking up equipment and reptiles among other things all the time on this forum as is the norm, what’s interesting is that you don’t seem to have a system in place whereby the forum members can courier things basically from one end of the country to the other without having to pay out huge costs and risking the lives of our pets or damage or loss of equipment.

Let me explain or qualify that statement, as some of you may know from other posts I own Landrovers and at one time even competed but that’s a story for another day what my point is that I am a member of a forum as is at least one other member here that I know of called ORRP.com or *O*ff *R*oaders *R*ant *P*age and we have members living at opposite ends of the country and the travel and or courier costs were and are massive so we set up a completely voluntary name, address and telephone system whereby if a member wanted a part or parts from one place the people between point A(the part or parts start point) would pass it along until it reached point B(in most cases the members house or met part way) this system has literally saved thousands of pounds in doing so.

Each person sets out their maximum distance they are willing to travel and what they can or are willing and able to transport and you go from there really.


The system was and still is closely monitored to ensure only those on the list have access to the list to ensure it wasn’t or isn't abused by spammers, scammers and advertising campaigns which we have successfully managed to do and run for a number of years without hassles of loss or indeed any of the afore mentioned silliness.

Now that’s a broad outline and I appreciate we are not talking car parts BUT, what do you think could this work here too? 


Or at least a system based around it ?


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

Right lets see if iv got this straight.
So if i wanted something from Aberdeen for instance, it could be passed down a chain to say stoke on trent.
Then i would get a delivery say from Torquay, and take that with me to stoke on trent and pass it on to whoever is going to take it the rest of the way?
Is that right or have i got the wrong end of the stick?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

I have now recieved a number of positive PM's and taking on board what has been said here I have spread the idea through the entire RFUK site. :whistling2:

However I now feel a bit like a spammer but, I know this does work and it can work here too if we all want it too.: victory:


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

One small problem I can see is that if an animal is going from A to B it has more needs than a car part. 
( problems related to heating, stress etc )
In most cases those carrying the animal would need to have a DEFRA licence to carry the animal.
Also it makes no difference if a car part takes a week to get from start to finish but that would not work for a living animal.
It could work for equipment, as long as you trust all the links in the chain.
Stephen


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## atum (Jun 1, 2009)

spicewwfc said:


> Right lets see if iv got this straight.
> So if i wanted something from Aberdeen for instance, it could be passed down a chain to say stoke on trent.
> Then i would get a delivery say from Torquay, and take that with me to stoke on trent and pass it on to whoever is going to take it the rest of the way?
> Is that right or have i got the wrong end of the stick?


Kind of... i think.

You don't have to be part of another delivery to get your item? Say it's coming from Manchester to where I live, Hayling Island. It would get passed from member to member, each member saying how far they are willing to travel to reach the next member? And I would either receive my delivery at my house or, to make it easier for the deliverer, Havant? 

But in return Im guessing you would have to be willing to help out other members for their troubles?


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

Seems a bit pointless (if I read correctly, don't slate me) - we charge a max of £80 anywhere in the country. Even Cornwall to Aberdeen. That's a pretty fair price even if I do say so myself, for a one driver door to door, animal specialist delivery.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

wait a minute.
This is at least the 3rd copy of the same thread.
A bit over the top.
That just results in things being duplicated.
Do we realy need so may threads with exactly the same message :devil:


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

I've just seen this message is on at least 2 other threads. 
One having quite a ew comments.
Maybe better to have all the comments on the same thread to avoid confussion.


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## atum (Jun 1, 2009)

SnakeBreeder said:


> wait a minute.
> This is at least the 3rd copy of the same thread.
> A bit over the top.
> That just results in things being duplicated.
> Do we realy need so may threads with exactly the same message :devil:


I think this is because certain people don't go from one section to the other. For example, I never leave the invert section so wouldn't see this thread anywhere else.


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

Pretty sure you don't need a DEFRA licence unless it's for paid work and as this would be working on a 'buddy' system I hardly think regardless of anything DEFRA would get involved in any way shape or form.

 http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/index.htm

I know that animals are not car parts possibly more than most but, as it was an idea and used as a simile it is not much to worry about.



:2thumb:


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

atum said:


> I think this is because certain people don't go from one section to the other. For example, I never leave the invert section so wouldn't see this thread anywhere else.


 
Correct and i am guessing 90% of the whole of RFUK only visit there animal section as it were.

I am sorry to offend anyone by posting across the board.: victory:


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

I have seen this system work well on a Rabbit Forum where rescue centres can home unwanted pets in other areas of the country,members of the forum transporting bunnies all over the place and many long distance lorry drivers helped too :2thumb::2thumb:


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

Very nice in theory, though I do see it as a bit pointless. A DEFRA Licensed courier as such as the ones listed in the courier section aren't expensive and don't pass the buck. My partner and I charge a max of £80 anywhere in the country, whether from Redruth to Aberdeen or return. This is a specific door to door delivery, with no stops or passing around. I think this is more than a fair price for specialist animal transportation, and I know I - as well as the majority of other people on here - would prefer their animal being carried by someone licensed, approved and specific to the job. 
I'm interested to see how this goes mind you, but I know I for one wouldn't have enough trust to use it.


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## tarantulamatt (Nov 12, 2009)

i only go to invert and fish section and im satisfid and the lizard but rare only if i have a Q about my leo:2thumb:


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## atum (Jun 1, 2009)

Gileadites said:


> Correct and i am guessing 90% of the whole of RFUK only visit there animal section as it were.
> 
> I am sorry to offend anyone by posting across the board.: victory:


To be perfectly honest, when we buy inverts off of here, we use RMSD so we have out inverts the next day for about £6 so doubt this will catch on with this lot. But best of luck with the idea across the other sections.


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

forever_20one said:


> Very nice in theory, though I do see it as a bit pointless. A DEFRA Licensed courier as such as the ones listed in the courier section aren't expensive and don't pass the buck. My partner and I charge a max of £80 anywhere in the country, whether from Redruth to Aberdeen or return. This is a specific door to door delivery, with no stops or passing around. I think this is more than a fair price for specialist animal transportation, and I know I - as well as the majority of other people on here - would prefer their animal being carried by someone licensed, approved and specific to the job.
> I'm interested to see how this goes mind you, but I know I for one wouldn't have enough trust to use it.


 
I checked the DEFRA site before posting and have included it if anyone wishes to look.

 http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/index.htm

I am NOT trying to steal your job and I am sorry you have taken it as a personal affront to you and your business.

I wish you all the best with your business and indeed I would be more than happy to use your services if needed as I am sure you would mine.: victory:


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

it sounds intresting, but i'd be scared of someone joining the list, and doing a runner with my stuff ;o


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

There is a Defra registered rep courier thats a member of the forum who does runs all over the country every month for a good price. He also keeps reps himself which is good news:2thumb: Its Sam the van man. He's very reliable too.

Personally, I would rather know exactly who's transporting an animal for me and that they are registered.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

The 8 topics regarding this idea have been merged to the most appropriate section (as there is no financial gain, not classifieds!) 

So if there are some confusing moments, that's why!  

My only suggestion is that it would have to exclude live animals. 
It would rapidly become a complete disaster; no one to take responsibility? who are you trusting to care for your animals? whose other animals do they get put next to? what disease might they pick up and who will deal with that?


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

andy007 said:


> There is a Defra registered rep courier thats a member of the forum who does runs all over the country every month for a good price. He also keeps reps himself which is good news:2thumb: Its Sam the van man. He's very reliable too.
> 
> Personally, I would rather know exactly who's transporting an animal for me and that they are registered.


:2thumb:: victory:



Gileadites said:


> I checked the DEFRA site before posting and have included it if anyone wishes to look.
> 
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/index.htm
> 
> ...


 
Certainly wasn't saying you were! Just making a valid point.


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

I appreciate that whilst it may not work for animals it could work for equipment and whilst I know of the people that do work in the transport industry on this site and beyond (my father for starters) and the others mentioned I was simply making a suggestion as it has worked in the past on other forums.

I apologise if I have upset anyone as this was certainly not my intention and I look forward to also seeing how this goes, if it fails I have lost nothing if it works then we have helped someone.

I know this might sound again a little defensive and again it's not meant as such but there are people here that get gifted equipment and so on and they may not have a car or access to transport and even worse may not be as fortuitous as others and this system could help them tremendously.

Finally a huge thank must go to Saedcantas for doing what I wish I could have done in the start or maybe I should have done would be more appropriate use of words in this instance.


Have a great day all:2thumb:


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

What happened if it did die who would foot the cost or take responsibility? or took more than a day to get to you, the person would have to feed/house the animal. I wouldnt mind one person but passing the animal through alot of people wouldnt be something i would take part in : victory:


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Its a good idea, But - with more websites offering free home delivery now its a bit of an obsolete idea. 

What would be a better idea, is if all of the DEFRA registered livestock couriers who charge for their services is to become a bit more organised and offer a anywhere in the uk next day livestock delivery service for £40, 

Based on a system whereby each courier has there own area, they make collections and deliveries in there own area and in the evening all meet up at a central location to pass over shipments to the other operators area, 

for example courier A covers hampshire for example, and spends the day collecting shipments and delivering shipments in hampshire, in the evening he goes to the central "hub" meets up with the other couriers picks up all the parcels for hampshire and hands over the parcels for other areas. 

Each courier would get paid £20 for every drop off and collection (hence £40 charge), Couriers would be notified in advance of any drop offs and collections in there area (to avoid travelling to a central location for no reason), 

With all the major couriers not wanting to touch livestock anymore at all for new accounts, soon it will be an essential service. 

if any registered couriers are interested in operating this sort of system drop me a pm as its an idea i have been thinking about for a while.


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> Its a good idea, But - with more websites offering free home delivery now its a bit of an obsolete idea.
> 
> What would be a better idea, is if all of the DEFRA registered livestock couriers who charge for their services is to become a bit more organised and offer a anywhere in the uk next day livestock delivery service for £40,
> 
> ...


 
:lol2: If only it were that easy eh.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

it is that easy really, just needs everyone to work together hmmmm.......

guess your right!


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> it is that easy really, just needs everyone to work together hmmmm.......
> 
> guess your right!


Unfortunately, you really will never get that! My partner has asked to work together with some of the other couriers on here, it just doesn't work. Money is also easier the way it is - if we were to stay in the South where we're based, there just isn't enough work down here for it to be worth our while to continue.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

In principle a good idea Neil.....however i would feel much better knowing that my animal was in the care of one person, rather than being swapped around in some motorway services. 
And as forever_20one says, what about in the south west where there isn't such a demand. The courier that has to do the pick ups down here would end up covering many more miles and spend more time, than one that shoots up and down the main motorways.
Take Sam for instance, he posts what runs he's doing in advance, so everyone knows whats what. 
I would prefer to deal with one person who takes takes the order and then completes the run, rather than placing a courier order which then gets passed to someone i dont know of.
In the case of equipment, there's many main stream courier firms used by various suppliers.
I suppose it comes down to whether the buyer can be bothered to wait a couple of weeks for their gecko to arrive? I would rather wait.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

its going to be a big problem for the industry soon, as the only "proper" courier that will handle livestock is TNT and they wont take on any new accounts, so unless something gets organized soon then seeing reptiles for sale in pet shops will eventually become a thing of the past - some may say thats a good thing, others wouldnt.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

I dont get what you mean by "proper courier"? Just because tnt are a nationwide company that hold a defra lisense, doesn't mean the individual driver will take any better care of them. I know someone that use a "proper" courier for some fish. When the buyer answered the door, the driver was there spinning the box around, despite there being a bloomin great sticker saying "Live Fish". So just shows that even "proper couriers" can be crap.

Maybe online sales of livestock would fall for internet based shops, but the majority of pet shops dont courier their animals anyway, least not around here they dont.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

when i say "proper" courier, I mean nationwide courier company that you are able to book a parcel with in the morning and its delivered the next day for about £20, not joe blogs with his van who can pick up next week and deliver. As a commercial breeder of reps, I would need to pick up the phone and get 1000 beardies delivered to 100 pet shops in one day, something that the owner / operator/ one man band cannot do. 

Just because your local rep shops dont send out by courier, how do you think they get the reptiles in?

TNT are the last company willing to ship reptiles and only to existing account holders, they want to wash their hands of it, too much hassle, too much pressure from antis, When they give in and stop the livestock accounts, and i believe it will be when not if, there will be a whole lot of shops cut off from their supply chain.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> when i say "proper" courier, I mean nationwide courier company that you are able to book a parcel with in the morning and its delivered the next day for about £20, not joe blogs with his van who can pick up next week and deliver. As a commercial breeder of reps, I would need to pick up the phone and get 1000 beardies delivered to 100 pet shops in one day, something that the owner / operator/ one man band cannot do.
> 
> Just because your local rep shops dont send out by courier, how do you think they get the reptiles in?
> 
> TNT are the last company willing to ship reptiles and only to existing account holders, they want to wash their hands of it, too much hassle, too much pressure from antis, When they give in and stop the livestock accounts, and i believe it will be when not if, there will be a whole lot of shops cut off from their supply chain.


Just to note i wasnt using the term "proper" to imply that TNT were better than the owner operater, because if the owner operator could provide the service i need i would gladly use them over any "proper" courier. I am under no illusion of the crapness of TNT


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## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

*Hi*



forever_20one said:


> Very nice in theory, though I do see it as a bit pointless. A DEFRA Licensed courier as such as the ones listed in the courier section aren't expensive and don't pass the buck. My partner and I charge a max of £80 anywhere in the country, whether from Redruth to Aberdeen or return. This is a specific door to door delivery, with no stops or passing around. I think this is more than a fair price for specialist animal transportation, and I know I - as well as the majority of other people on here - would prefer their animal being carried by someone licensed, approved and specific to the job.
> I'm interested to see how this goes mind you, but I know I for one wouldn't have enough trust to use it.


My thoughts precisely,i had a courier quote from Birmingham to Scotland and was quoted £45,when you think that the animal in question would have been in transit no longer than 12 hours and not moved from van to van 2/3 times during the journey i don't see the need for an alternative
Plus couriers are covered by insurance for piece of mind
As much as i apreciate the idea i would'nt feel happy with my animals being passed around so much


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

I think it can now safely be assumed that we wouldn’t want to upset people by daring to transport an animal even if it were a one stop trip out of the goodness of someone’s heart and even if they were actually going from point A to point B for others reasons and were close enough to both ends of the system to cover both the sender and the receiver. We shall therefore stick to helping others with transporting their equipment if we can and are willing to be part of the system.

Clearly this system is not for everyone not unlike the other site I use some simply think there are thieves amongst them others that they prefer to see stuff before they have it firsthand just in case it’s been misrepresented by the other party even though this whole thing runs on trust and friendship if not for that it simply cannot work. As with the other site I use it’s a hobby forum and there too we are under threat from all angles for many different reasons and that’s why people try to pull together to help each other and of course to keep their hobby alive as much as anything else. 

I think I understand now that there is some problem with the couriers from this site, me only owning a web design business and having business interests in both the signage and cheque cashing industry I obviously don’t understand the dynamics of how this whole business thing works and have quite clearly upset someone in the transport industry. I could understand objection to this from users outside of the transport industry as I assumed obviously wrongly that anyone in the business would not see this as a threat as this kind of thing takes place anyway, it was simply a way of organising it into one place where we could all utilise it and all benefit from it.

As an aside I thought upsetting someone in the transport industry was relatively difficult until now as I usually only manage to do so when I visit my father but my god how wrong I have been and he too can’t help being defensive when someone mentions anything regarding such things as fuel, trucks or wheels and transport in general so I guess I understand how some feel and why they feel that way which is of course a contradiction in a way of what I have already said but nonetheless

This was simply an idea I stole for a better term from another site I use and it was as simple as that an idea that I thought I would float here to get some input and as I have said repeatedly I apologise if it upsets anyone or even affects their moral stand point, I have also stated that if it works for this site that’s great news for those that can’t get to places and so on and if it fails then well it hasn’t lost me no sleep nor shall it ever as it was only ever a suggestion an idea and it can only be a loss to those less fortuitous than others or maybe those that think it more environmentally friendly to ‘kill two birds with one stone’ as it were.

I guess I was wrong, I guess this was a really bad thing to suggest, I guess I also need to think more before I post idea’s that may potentially be of use to some forum members but also infuriate others so much they get so enraged that they feel the need to constantly quote and post others constructive thoughts and finally I also guess that if one upsets another they should simply walk away instead of flogging a dead horse for fear that the horse may miraculously come back to life and bite them on the bum.

Let me reiterate that I am sorry to those I have upset are going to upset and to those that really wanted this to work clearly I have crossed a line and I can only apologise for this so many times before it simply becomes irrelevant and meaningless I also can but only apologise for what may seem to be my defensiveness and of course my arrogance I am afraid that’s just me being passionate about things. 

Finally (Thank god for that some might say he finally stops?) but seriously finally I also feel compelled to say as this is such a long post with lots of points to it if you feel the need to quote me then simply quote the individual sentence or paragraph if it offends to ensure not only you can understand which part or parts, point or points you are trying to refer to but everyone else including myself can understand what you mean as this thread will hit 30 pages with 10 people posting and quoting others with little else said and nothing constructive come of it because of this.

Finally *NO REALLY* please try to keep this on topic and in addition to this can we also please try to avoid any bickering and nit-picking as this thread like so many others doesn’t need to be locked and thrown away simply because of adults allowing their keyboards and fingers to run away with the thoughts.

I hope this clears up my standpoint on this matter and I look forward to reading more of your posts, have a great day : victory:


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

SnakeBreeder said:


> wait a minute.
> This is at least the 3rd copy of the same thread.
> A bit over the top.
> That just results in things being duplicated.
> Do we realy need so may threads with exactly the same message :devil:





SnakeBreeder said:


> I've just seen this message is on at least 2 other threads.
> One having quite a ew comments.
> Maybe better to have all the comments on the same thread to avoid confussion.


 
Correct me if I am wrong but this will be 2 posts in succession in the same thread. The guy is just trying to reach everyone in all sections of the site. I am a snake keeper and I know that I dont look at the shelled section so if the original post was only in there then how would I ever find out about it?


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## Gileadites (Jan 19, 2010)

I posted across the board in all forums and then realised it could cause confusion and with a little help from a mod it was all moved here, thats why some posts appear to make no sense.

I too as you may be aware am a snake person and usually only post in that section so I felt it prudent to post across the board but still it's all here now and not anywhere else.

Thanks for the support:2thumb:


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> when i say "proper" courier, I mean nationwide courier company that you are able to book a parcel with in the morning and its delivered the next day for about £20, not joe blogs with his van who can pick up next week and deliver. *As a commercial breeder of reps, I would need to pick up the phone and get 1000 beardies delivered to 100 pet shops in one day, something that the owner / operator/ one man band cannot do. *


You haven't asked us :razz:


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

Gileadites said:


> I posted across the board in all forums and then realised it could cause confusion and with a little help from a mod it was all moved here, thats why some posts appear to make no sense.
> 
> I too as you may be aware am a snake person and usually only post in that section so I felt it prudent to post across the board but still it's all here now and not anywhere else.
> 
> Thanks for the support:2thumb:


No bother mate.
I think it is a good idea. If people dont like then they should not use it. I am sure that if it is being organised on an animal forum that the people doing the runs will not be cruel to the animals. I would also expect that people would say that they cant do a run on a certain day if it meant they would have to leave the animal any longer than it had to be. I would imagine the idea to be it goes form place to place without any delays therefor taking roughly the same amount of time as one person doing the tirp. Maybe slightly increased in time due to the handovers but dont see it being much.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

russm said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but this will be 2 posts in succession in the same thread. The guy is just trying to reach everyone in all sections of the site. I am a snake keeper and I know that I dont look at the shelled section so if the original post was only in there then how would I ever find out about it?


Actually you are wrong there. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
My two comments were on two of the different threads.
Thankfully someone have joined all the threads in to one thread and placed it in the general section.
Not sure if my account is set up differently but I get all the recent posts, regardless of which catagory they are in. Maybe you have your account set up with restrictions, so you only see the area which interests you most.


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Actually you are wrong there. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> My two comments were on two of the different threads.
> Thankfully someone have joined all the threads in to one thread and placed it in the general section.
> Not sure if my account is set up differently but I get all the recent posts, regardless of which catagory they are in. Maybe you have your account set up with restrictions, so you only see the area which interests you most.


Ah I see. Did not know that it has all been moved into one. I suppose that is better now that it is in general sections but you saw what he was trying to do.


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