# Big Cats



## yayyay (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi,

After reading through some posts in this area of the forum It appears I am open to being slaughtered for posting this, as the question is non reptile based.

Hopefully I won't cause any arguments.

Do you think that there are any wild big cats roaming our country side?
I read that people supposedly have spotted them, I'm just interested if you believe their are any, or have seen any.

I understand their have been one or two hoax stories in the tabloids in the past, and I also understand that various people used to keep them and release them years ago once they reached a certain size. (or maybe when the DWA was introduced??)

Thank You.


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## davidlottr (Nov 14, 2009)

Yes there are big cats in the uk last year they said that yes there are big cats in the uk but have been telling us for year there where none, i cant rember who they are but they are in charge of the uk wild life. 

please tell me if im wrong as this is what i read in the paper as there have been a few things (100s lol) the papers print that are not true.


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

There have been big cats roaming the country side for years, quite a few got dumped when licencing was intoduced so to escape prosecution some decided to just release them. Others bought them before licencing and realised they were not ideal pets but this was quite rare. Sightings aren't actually as common as they were 10 or 15 years ago as I imagine the life span of a big cat probably isn't great living on the yorkshire dales.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

there are a few forums on this sybject www.ukbigcats.co.uk is one


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

yayyay said:


> Hi,
> 
> After reading through some posts in this area of the forum It appears I am open to being slaughtered for posting this, as the question is non reptile based.
> 
> ...


 
this is really strange you posted this ,about 6 months ago just outside cromer in norfolk i was driving about 9 ish towards fakenham and i spotted a dark animal moving like a cat but it was about as big as a large dog and had green or what looked like green eyes , ive herd reports of panthers up around here but i didnt think i would see one ......


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Please do not start this pointless thread again

its been done to death!

Mods do us a favor and lock it please...pretty please


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Please do not start this pointless thread again
> 
> its been done to death!
> 
> Mods do us a favor and lock it please...pretty please


 
done to death, strange first time ive seen a thread on the subject:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> done to death, strange first time ive seen a thread on the subject:Na_Na_Na_Na:


must have had your eyes shut or focused on "big cats"!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## LadySpikes (Jul 12, 2009)

slippery42 said:


> Please do not start this pointless thread again
> 
> its been done to death!
> 
> Mods do us a favor and lock it please...pretty please


 

or you could just not read it .....


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

LadySpikes said:


> or you could just not read it .....


 
Yea Graeme thats told ya:lol2:


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

I have a had a big cat living with me when I was younger.


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## abandonallhope (Jun 19, 2009)

Gaboon said:


> I have a had a big cat living with me when I was younger.


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

abandonallhope said:


> image


that size cat would make a nice burm meal :lol2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> that size cat would make a nice burm meal :lol2:


A good suggestion for all cats!:gasp:


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

slippery42 said:


> A good suggestion for all cats!:gasp:


Agreed!

All domestic cats must be disposed of, and we the evil reptile people are the ones to do it!!!!!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Gaboon said:


> Agreed!
> 
> All domestic cats must be disposed of, and we the evil reptile people are the ones to do it!!!!!



Perhaps we should start a facebook campaign for all of us cat haters!:devil:


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

slippery42 said:


> Perhaps we should start a facebook campaign for all of us cat haters!:devil:


Count me out! I also hate face book! Maybe a RFUK group? That would really get up the noses if Wilbers cronies:lol2:


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## Jack W (Feb 9, 2009)

smart1 said:


> this is really strange you posted this ,about 6 months ago just outside cromer in norfolk i was driving about 9 ish towards fakenham and i spotted a dark animal moving like a cat but it was about as big as a large dog and had green or what looked like green eyes , ive herd reports of panthers up around here but i didnt think i would see one ......


I have heard people say this a thousand times. What is always interesting is that they say that it is a big black cat or a 'panther' (not that there is such a species as a panther BTW it is a name for a melanistic jaguar or leopard, it is also the name (panthera) for the 'big cat' genus so therefore a lion could be called a panther which is just plainly wrong! RANT OVER!)

I think that the reason that people always only see melanistic and never tawny or striped 'big cats' is simply because you don't really get striped or tawny dogs. However you do get large, sleek black dogs, eg. a german shepard. It true that big cats were released into the wild when the DWA came into effect, but I think that it is unlikely that there are any significant numbers left in the uk, if any at all. Just my personal opinion.

Anyway this subject has been done to death, but I thought I would add my piece ...


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

If there was any released surely they'd have to be pretty old now!
Surely there wouldn't have been enough released for them to be able to reproduce?


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## Slashware (Dec 20, 2009)

My cat's breath smells of fish


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)




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## LUCYS (Dec 22, 2009)

steveyruss said:


> There have been big cats roaming the country side for years, quite a few got dumped when licencing was intoduced so to escape prosecution some decided to just release them. Others bought them before licencing and realised they were not ideal pets but this was quite rare. Sightings aren't actually as common as they were 10 or 15 years ago as I imagine the life span of a big cat probably isn't great living on the yorkshire dales.


this ios true and there were big cats roaming but i doubt very much if there are anymore as someone would have found them by now and that would be a huge news story...


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## Silversnake84 (Jul 12, 2009)

i'm pretty sure they do roam the UK, and i have spoken to various members of family, good friends and colleagues who have seen them, and would not lie. infact they were slightly embarrassed to tell of their sightings, and did not tell people until a few weeks, or even months, had passed, and some even did not say until the subject of big cats happened to be brought up!

a few people have also reported sightings of cubs, such as in this report from 2004:

WalesOnline - News - Wales News - Shock number of big cat sightings

more than one was undoubtedly released after the DWA act got introduced in 1976, so they must be breeding or sightings would have dropped off by now. 

a lot of sightings of 'big cats' may be explained by people mistakenly seeing large domestic cats, dogs, even melanistic deer (!) and yet other sightings are kellas cats - a hybrid form that is produced when a domestic cats breeds with a Scottish wild cat - which, due to hybrid vigour, produces an exceptionally large, black animal with a different shaped head, unlike either parent. 

http://www.bigcatsinbritain.org/kellascatspicevidence.htm

it doesn't look THAT large, but it can be easy to get confused from a distance.

there's even reports of (Scottish) wild cats still inhabiting other pockets of the UK, so who knows if kellas cats are being produced there too.

as for people not seeing big cats very often, many sightings go unreported, and if anyone has ever tried tracking cougars for example in North America, you'll know how challenging big cats can be to see in the wild, even in places where they are known to exist! 

the other reson maybe why big cats are 'not accepted' as being present in the UK, is that if they were, defra, the home office, govt, whoever, would likely have to spend a lot of money either catching them all, assuring the public that they will not be killed if they go to walk their dog in the forest, or on the other hand (in their opinion god forbid!) create a protection programme for this newly-'naturalised' species (or multiple species) that has begun to reproduce in the UK!!


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## LUCYS (Dec 22, 2009)

If they were out there people would be out trying to find them so they could be in the paper,if the africans can track a cat across africa im sure someone could track a cat across yorkshire..i dont believe their there,theres not enought food source for them anyway the farmers would have complai8ned ages ago if it were eating his animals..


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

Plenty of sightings but no hard evidence. I remember in the late 1990's the MOD put a load of Royal marines on Dartmoor to look for big cats on there. They didnt find one. Also I saw a documentary a few years ago where a couple of Canadian trackers, who were expert at tracking pumas, came to the UK and met with a British guy who was convinced that there is a population here. After several weeks searching and giving all the evidence the Brit guy showed them a good looking over, they blew it out of the water and said they were convinced that there were none in the wild here. People say with conviction that loads were realesed in the late 1970's. Were they? Says who? Britain is a very small place and even given the secretive lifestyle of cats I think if a viable breeding population was out there, they would of been discovered.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Plenty of sightings but no hard evidence. I remember in the late 1990's the MOD put a load of Royal marines on Dartmoor to look for big cats on there. They didnt find one. QUOTE]
> 
> To be fair the Royal Marines couldnt find there own arse without a map.
> :lol2::lol2:


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> Andy G said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of sightings but no hard evidence. I remember in the late 1990's the MOD put a load of Royal marines on Dartmoor to look for big cats on there. They didnt find one. QUOTE]
> ...


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## Silversnake84 (Jul 12, 2009)

u can't just go out and expect to find a big cat just like that... i know ppl who live in Canada who have never seen a big cat. it just depends if ur looking in the right places and are very lucky to cross paths with one. ppl in Africa who track lions have excellent tracking skills, something most of us in the modernised world have lost. lions are also more likely to be in areas where humans are - for food. both need to eat and might hunt in similar areas where food is plentiful. farmers here also do complain when 'something' takes their animals. it's just that if it can't be explained, it's not put down to a down to a big cat kill coz they can't prove it. in some places in N. America the govt has to pay for animals taken by predators, so it makes sense they aren't going to want to do that here i suppose.


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

Silversnake84 said:


> u can't just go out and expect to find a big cat just like that... i know ppl who live in Canada who have never seen a big cat. it just depends if ur looking in the right places and are very lucky to cross paths with one. ppl in Africa who track lions have excellent tracking skills, something most of us in the modernised world have lost. lions are also more likely to be in areas where humans are - for food. both need to eat and might hunt in similar areas where food is plentiful. farmers here also do complain when 'something' takes their animals. it's just that if it can't be explained, it's not put down to a down to a big cat kill coz they can't prove it. in some places in N. America the govt has to pay for animals taken by predators, so it makes sense they aren't going to want to do that here i suppose.


Cats can be very elusive but they are not ghosts. A living, breathing, breeding population leaves some trace. Kills presented to experts (not enthusiasts or self proclaimed experts) as big cat kills have been shown to be the result of dogs. No carcasses found, ever. Not one decent photo or piece of footage. No scat or hair samples. The British Isles is just too heavily populated for creatures like this to evade detection for very long.


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## xautomaticflowersx (Sep 7, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Also I saw a documentary a few years ago where a couple of Canadian trackers, who were expert at tracking pumas, came to the UK and met with a British guy who was convinced that there is a population here. After several weeks searching and giving all the evidence the Brit guy showed them a good looking over, they blew it out of the water and said they were convinced that there were none in the wild here.


I saw that too... the British guy was a total anorak. He had a scrapbook with photos of 'mauled' people and dead livestock that 'proved' there were big cats in the UK. The Canadian guy explained that the manner in which the livestock had been killed were indicative of canine attacks and feeding. As for the people who had supposedly been scratched by big cats, well there's just no way! The claws on a big cat are huge and even a relatively small species could easily cut to the bone with a decent 'claws-out' swipe. There were photos of some child who said he saw a huge black cat in some long grass in the countryside and it apparently scratched his face. But the scratch was so incidental... clearly a domestic kitty.
I have to say, after seeing that documentary I remain pretty skeptical.


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## xautomaticflowersx (Sep 7, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Cats can be very elusive but they are not ghosts. A living, breathing, breeding population leaves some trace. Kills presented to experts (not enthusiasts or self proclaimed experts) as big cat kills have been shown to be the result of dogs. No carcasses found, ever. Not one decent photo or piece of footage. No scat or hair samples. The British Isles is just too heavily populated for creatures like this to evade detection for very long.


Exactly.


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

xautomaticflowersx said:


> I saw that too... the British guy was a total anorak. He had a scrapbook with photos of 'mauled' people and dead livestock that 'proved' there were big cats in the UK. The Canadian guy explained that the manner in which the livestock had been killed were indicative of canine attacks and feeding. As for the people who had supposedly been scratched by big cats, well there's just no way! The claws on a big cat are huge and even a relatively small species could easily cut to the bone with a decent 'claws-out' swipe. There were photos of some child who said he saw a huge black cat in some long grass in the countryside and it apparently scratched his face. But the scratch was so incidental... clearly a domestic kitty.
> I have to say, after seeing that documentary I remain pretty skeptical.


Ha ha yeah it was brilliant. He was so excited about the experts turning up and looking at his scrap book and it was all they could do to stop themselves laughing in his face! Proper freaky bloke with not enough going on in his life! When the best evidence you have is the testimony of a young boy with a barely visible scratch on his cheek then you havent got alot to bring to the table.


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## Silversnake84 (Jul 12, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Cats can be very elusive but they are not ghosts. A living, breathing, breeding population leaves some trace. Kills presented to experts (not enthusiasts or self proclaimed experts) as big cat kills have been shown to be the result of dogs. No carcasses found, ever. Not one decent photo or piece of footage. No scat or hair samples. The British Isles is just too heavily populated for creatures like this to evade detection for very long.


 
Even snow leopards, which have the nickname 'ghost cats' due to their difficulty in finding one at all? And they are known to exist.

Traces can and probably are left, it is just that people are likely paid to shut up about it. Hair has been found, and was analysed in a lab and matched no animal that is resident in the UK (wild or domestic). 

I spoke to a farmer who is very aware of what a dog kill looks like on a sheep, and he knew when he saw one that didn't fit. He was a very shy man and did not want any publicity and also didn't want to be associated with crazy claims in his town. 

As for carcasses, how many people have even seen an otter carcass? Or a pine marten carcass? There are loads of rabbits around the UK, but their carcasses don't litter the ground - you might see one or two, but you don't tend to fall across them every day... People with pet cats, where do they go to die? Don't they tend to hide well from even their owners? Roadkills are probs the most common way ppl see carcasses - cats avoid busy areas so they wouldn't be subjected to the same chances of being hit on fast roads like rabbits etc normally are.

i agree though that there are not really any convincing photos or footage. most of it is just prats messing about for attention and wasting the time of professionals who take the time to analyse the photos or footage.


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

Silversnake84 said:


> Even snow leopards, which have the nickname 'ghost cats' due to their difficulty in finding one at all? And they are known to exist.
> 
> Traces can and probably are left, it is just that people are likely paid to shut up about it. Hair has been found, and was analysed in a lab and matched no animal that is resident in the UK (wild or domestic).
> 
> ...


Snow leopards are known to exist indeed. I watched a very good documentary about them not so long ago. The footage was brilliant. So it is possible to film a species that only has a few hundred surviving in a huge, inhospitable area (the himalayas) but not to catch a big cat on film in the British isles? 

All hair and scat samples that have been presented have been found either to match known animals that are native or the results have been inconclusive. This means very little depending on the testing used it can be impossible to come to a conclusion as to what species they originate, in the case of a least one 'unknown' sample, after further testing were found to be manmade fibres from a rug.

Im not doubting your farmer friend, well actually I am, on the documentry refered to earlier all kills that were doubted to have been dog kills by farmers were proved to be in fact just that.

Paid to say nothing? Ha ha ha This isnt an episode of the X files! Who and why would someone be paid to say nothing about hairs they had found?
I doubt very much that there are big cats roaming the British isles and find the idea of the Loch Ness monster, Ufo's and Bigfoot just as crazy.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Big cats loose in the uk in reasonable numbers........yeh right.!

where is the proof!


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## Silversnake84 (Jul 12, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Snow leopards are known to exist indeed. I watched a very good documentary about them not so long ago. The footage was brilliant. So it is possible to film a species that only has a few hundred surviving in a huge, inhospitable area (the himalayas) but not to catch a big cat on film in the British isles?
> 
> All hair and scat samples that have been presented have been found either to match known animals that are native or the results have been inconclusive. This means very little depending on the testing used it can be impossible to come to a conclusion as to what species they originate, in the case of a least one 'unknown' sample, after further testing were found to be manmade fibres from a rug.
> 
> ...


 
Tis possible to film them indeed... After spending months doing nothing but searching for them and sat in tents all day! Ppl in UK 'looking' for big cats just spend a week having a poke around the countryside, of course that will be inconclusive! Also as ppl don't know for sure if they're there they probs don't want to waste their time looking for something that may or may not exist. It's different if you're told to go and film a snow leopard that are know to be in certain areas, and get paid for it!

How many feral dogs do u think r in the UK? have u ever seen one killing and/or eating a sheep carcass? There must be some pretty vicious dogs on the loose out there. And ppl won't come forward and admit their dog has killed a sheep... then again, that would help to prove it.

Yes, biological samples are only as accurate as 'proof' as the methods used to test them, and the reliability of those doing the testing. If people don't want information released, it won't be released.

Some 'crypto; animals can be explained... large eels in Loch Ness, etc. As for UFOs, Bigfoot and the like.... you have no idea mate!!! Gorillas were thought to be 'crypto' animals before they were properly 'discovered' and documented!


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## Silversnake84 (Jul 12, 2009)

Oh, also, a big cat sighting by a person on this very blog!! :gasp:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/447742-big-cat-sighting.html


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