# Cat Litter...



## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Any recommendations for decent stuff?
At the mo, Im getting through it like no-one's business, trying to find a make that doesn't pong so much. I spot clean every time I see a poop in there, and change the whole tray every other day.. Sometimes there's such a whiff though when I get i from work, is there any that will hold the smell in better? I even use the Bob Martin litter freshener.

I've tried the Tesco Antibacterial one, seems the best Ive tried so far.
At the mo, I'm using a paper based one.. omg the smell of ammonia wee is absolutely disgusting when clearing it out!
I also have a bag of wood based litter that I'm gonna try next, when the paper crap has ran out.. But I doubt that will be any better. Oh and I have a bag of cheapy Tesco Value stuff which was give to me with the kitten which I can try too.

Orrrrr, maybe the problem isn't the litter, it's the poo? Maybe it's what hes being fed.. Hmm.


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

i like the spar cat litter


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I use Pets At Home's wood-based cat litter. It is good, easy to poo-pick & doesn't smell minging!


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## sea_beaver (Jul 17, 2007)

we use cat-san
its the only one that stopps the smell.. and doesnt turn to mush 15 minutes after pouring some in teh tray..
lil more expensive but worth it.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I use wood based cat litter same as zooman about £8.99 for a huge sack.I like it as you can flush the waste down the loo(dont leave it sitting though or it swells and blocks the loo.) I cant stand cat litter smell its worse than the actual waste a cat produces. If you feed tinned food it will smell more. High quality dried food tends to make poos smaller and drier and so less smelly(not talking supermarket brands here) Ive tried all litters and always come back to wood.The only problem is if they arent used to the pellets you will have to change over gradually as they dont like the feel of pellets on their feet


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

I was using the wood pellet litter, until i spilt some on the floor and stood on it with bare feet. Ouch just doesn't quite cover it! So i'm now using the bob martin paper based stuff. Libby had a choice of litter in her trays and chose that one every time, she avoided the wood like the plague. we also use it for the rats litter tray so dual purpose. We also use the litter tray freshener.


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## sahunk (Apr 1, 2007)

i was also wondering this, thanks for the thread!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> I was using the wood pellet litter, until i spilt some on the floor and stood on it with bare feet. Ouch just doesn't quite cover it! So i'm now using the bob martin paper based stuff. Libby had a choice of litter in her trays and chose that one every time, she avoided the wood like the plague. we also use it for the rats litter tray so dual purpose. We also use the litter tray freshener.


That's why a lot of cats' litter training breaks down - cats hate this stuff, especially if they're indoor cats cos it hurts their feet.

We've tried most of the cat litters over the years and always went back to NatureCat Gold as being the best for us, until someone recommended a fairly new litter called Oko Plus and now I honestly can't recommend it highly enough! 

It's expensive compared to other fuller's earth based cat litters and supermarket's own, but it lasts forever, so works out much cheaper!! It's wood based, but not pelleted so it's very soft for cats' feet. It's also very light for lifting and carrying. It clumps on urine and faeces so the urine can be lifted out (which of course can't be done on pelleted wood litter) as well as the faeces so you just keep topping it up and it doesn't smell! We have a litter tray in our living room for Purrdy who thinks it's her own personal room, so we have to be very careful about that! 

It's the only cat litter that can be composted as it's completely bio-degradable

We buy the largest size bag which costs us £19, but that bag will last us up to 3 months and we have 4 litter trays for 5 cats. We take out all the 'waste' every morning and once a week bleach every tray, then put what is left into 1 litter tray and put fresh in the others. And even the one that has the 'old stuff' doesn't smell. The only disadvantage is that, being light it 'tracks', but then all cat litters track to a certain degree and because it's so light it hoovers up very easily.

We buy it from a firm called North West Pet Foods who are based in Blackpool. They deliver in the north east once a month and don't charge for delivery. They cover most of the north of England from east to west, Staffs up to Northumberland if anyone is interested, but you can also buy it from other sources, but be aware, I've just googled it and found a firm charging £23.49 and that probably doesn't include their carriage charge, but even at that price I have to say it would work out cheaper than any other litter, because of its effectiveness.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`m using sophisticat pink at the minute, i find that its more absorbant that normal lightweight litter and absorbs smells more.

if your kitten is smelling that badly, i`d gradulaly change the food, wet food is all moisture and they have to eat a lot of it, hence the very full litter tray.

if you feed a quality dried food, kitten will eat less to satisfy her hunger, and you`ll get less in the tray to clear up, lol, and some have additives to help with the smell.

has she been wormed?

i`ve got three kittens living in my living room, and i cant smell `em!

:lol2:


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I use Tesco's own brand, my cat seems to prefer it probably because he's an old one (18 years old) and it's softer on his paws.
I used a brand made up of recycled paper once before and found his pink paws got covered in black ink from it.

Also I meant to add his litter tray is one of those enclosed ones as he hated being watched by the dogs using the open tray :lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Years go my friend bought Tesco's own litter, which in those days was pink (don't know if it still is!). It turned her top show winning Turkish Van's feet pink and he had a heck of a job getting them back to white for a show!! :lol2:


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

I am with you there Eileen Oko plus is the bees knees I ahve tried loads of different ones but this is fantastic it seems expensive but lasts ages, it is wood pellets but they are small so comfortable on your cats paws, and it doesnt pong!!
Clumping OkoPlus Wood Pellet Cat Litter 10Ltr by Cat's Best-Clumping-Pets at Home: Buy Pet Supplies from our Online UK Pet Shop


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I think catsan is by far the best and I have tried many.

OH likes wood based for cats now they live outside in a shed/aviary so smell no issue. The skunk only likes the gravel kind though so its catsan for him. Plus his pee and poo stink to high hell so need a good odour control one.

This is great. A whole thread about cat litter :lol2:


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

we use the wood based stuff just now the pets at home one but we will get that one next time the ox one or what ever its called


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

moonlight said:


> I am with you there Eileen Oko plus is the bees knees I ahve tried loads of different ones but this is fantastic it seems expensive but lasts ages, it is wood pellets but they are small so comfortable on your cats paws, and it doesnt pong!!
> Clumping OkoPlus Wood Pellet Cat Litter 10Ltr by Cat's Best-Clumping-Pets at Home: Buy Pet Supplies from our Online UK Pet Shop


:2thumb:

I must admit I was very sceptical when my friend told me how long it lasted, but thought I'd give it a try - I'd never use anything else nowadays!


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

we have tried alot, moost of wich have either been stupidly over priced or dyed, which ment silly coloured feet, we now have tesco own, and zingi likes it! lol


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Sophisticat premium choice :2thumb:My cats like it,I think it's easy to clean.


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

feorag said:


> :2thumb:
> 
> I must admit I was very sceptical when my friend told me how long it lasted, but thought I'd give it a try - I'd never use anything else nowadays!


 I know what you mean I used to go thru a bag of catsan every week as I have 2 large litter trays (all my cats are hous cats and one is a maine **** tom so you can imagine lol) anyways the Oko plus lasts me roughly 1 month with the £6.50 bag, so saving a lot of money and I think its keeps the smell down better than Catsan.
Go Oko plus the best cat littler in the world lol :no1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

The largest bag, which is the one I get would probably last you for 6 months then!! We use 4 of the large size Doskocil hooded trays (not the giant size) and like I said a bag lasts us 3 months.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Bob Martin litter crystals are fab. I find most cat litter has its own smell but this doesn't. You just remove the solid waste and any wet is absorped completely. I wouldn't use any other litter ever again.


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## Bosscat (Sep 1, 2008)

I have tried loads scented and unscented, wood, paper etc. Tesco value cat litter funnily enough is the only one Precious will use (fussy so & so!)and tbh doesn't smell too bad either


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I haven't read through the thread but we've been through loads of different litter brands and types. The key to a less stink tray is don't use wet food. Our house cat gets go-cat biscuits and usually a slice of ham at lunch time. He doesn't do those horrible mushy stinky poos any more. This diet is fine for him before anyone comments, he sails through his health checks at the vets every time and only had his last one a week ago.

The other key is give your cat a good depth of litter. The best one we've ever found is this and it's only about £7 for a 20KG bag. With it being so cheap you can afford to be generous with how much litter you give.










We used to use Tesco's own but they changed it and suddenly it stopped clumping and wouldn't soak the wee up.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Oko plus sounds like "Worlds Best Cat litter".Once cats are used to wood litter there is never a problem with them I love the stuff. Isnt it funny how we all have our own preferences in cat litter like its a fine wine or something .:lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Now I tried Worlds Best Cat Litter and I didn't like it at all! Strange that!!


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

i didnt like worlds best cat litter either it had a funny organic smell about it


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Woo this thread has been helpful, I will see if I can order some of the Oko stuff online.
Now.. my next problem is.. Baby chucks the litter EVERYWHERE! I have to brush up after every poop as he scrats it about so much and I have wooden floors so it just scatters. It's one of the trays with the lip atthe top too that supposedly stops that but errrr nope.
So, litter tray suggestions? 

And also.. I never even knew you could feed a cat just on dry foods! I have a cupboard full of pouches.. Literally about 50 lol, I buy far too much.. and he eats loads. 3 pouches a day and still meows for more when I go near HIS cupboard!
He also has access to a bowl of biscuits too 24/7 and when Im home theres another bowl of biscuits in the kitchen that he can get to too.
I think I may be overfeeding him though after reading this thread.. I'm gonna have a fat cat!


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Yep dried food is fine, just make sure the one you choose has everything your cat needs in it. If you're worried about his weight then pop him to the vets, they'll soon tell you and give him a once over to make sure he's ok. You'll probably only have to pay a consultation fee for something like that which is about £12 depending on the practice. When we used wet food we'd only feed morning and night. We had him weighed before and after switching and his weight has stayed the same. He's currently weighing in at a healthy 4.5kg

Not sure what you can do about litter on the floor. Ours does that sometimes, but not often enough to be a problem.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I have a mixture of huge Doscacill trays, corner trays and enormouse ones with a huge overhang on the hood to keep the dogs out. They are all hooded and all big.You can get a litter tracker thing that goes in front of the tray and it cleans their paws after a visit


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Im currently doing my online Asda shop.. any recommendations on dry food which will be good enough for him as a complete meal? 
He's an indoor cat so I've switched to the Go Cat indoor cat biscuits.. Whether that's a marketing thing I dunno lol
Soo... Whiskas, Gocat, Purina one, Iams, Asda Tiger?? Too may to choose from !


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

We actually use Whiskers biscuits (the largeish bags), thought it was go-cat. We get one chicken and one tuna I think they are.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks for all the advice!

I've ordered a few various bags of dry food, see what he fancies best and give a bit of variety. I already have 6 boxes of biscuits in the cupboard, I dont want him getting bored lol.

Also, just ordered a new cat litter tray, sick of clearing up the one he already has. Gone for a  Van Ness Enclosed Cat Litter Tray in Large.. Hopefully will be better for him!


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Good luck  We've got a large enclosed toilet but had to take the door off as he refused to go in there with it on. I think it resembled a carrier too much, he's not keen on car journeys (to the vets).


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Yeah I think I may have to take the door off too as Baby isn't keen on his carrier either :lol:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

A lot of people tie the door up so that the cat can get in and out of the litter tray OK until he gets used to the tray itself and then they start to lower the door until it's shut.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

if you use pouches, an adult cat needs four a day, so i dread to think how many a growing baby needs.

if you feed dried food, kitty will drink more water, so will be less likely to have bladder troubles.

purina one from the supermarket is a very good food and reasonably priced too.

i feed my tribe royal canin, but i get it in bulk direct, lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> if you use pouches, an adult cat needs four a day, so i dread to think how many a growing baby needs.
> 
> if you feed dried food, kitty will drink more water, so will be less likely to have bladder troubles.
> 
> ...


To be quite honest I would never have fed my cat 4 pouches a day. Before dried food came into the country my cat fed on one-third of a large tin of meat twice a day. 4 pouches seems a lot to me, certainly my cats wouldn't wade their way through that.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Baby has been eating 3 pouches a day, plus dry food available 24/7.
Since starting this thread I have cut the wet food down to 1 a day and just kept the dry food down. He's not too impressed, should see him when I finally let him have the wet food, he goes mad!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Brat said:


> Any recommendations for decent stuff?
> At the mo, Im getting through it like no-one's business, trying to find a make that doesn't pong so much. I spot clean every time I see a poop in there, and change the whole tray every other day.. Sometimes there's such a whiff though when I get i from work, is there any that will hold the smell in better? I even use the Bob Martin litter freshener.
> 
> I've tried the Tesco Antibacterial one, seems the best Ive tried so far.
> ...


 From someone who has 12 cats. The very best you can buy is any wood based one. The, just put enough in the tray to barely cover the bottom. Scoop the turds out a couple times a day and just wait. As they pee, it gets absorbed and the pellets swell to absorb even more. All you ever smell is pine. With 12 cats and 3 massive litter trays (the plastic bottoms off parrot cages) I use one 32 litre sack of litter a month.
It looks more expensive than the normal stuff but honestly it lasts 4 times as long and there is no smell. However, if you don't scoop the turds out at leats twice a day it will still stink. I have been using the woodbased stuff since it first came out in the 1980's and I got a sample of 'fussy puss' at a cat show.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

They soon get used to not getting wet. Nothing stopping you from treating him now and again with something. Like I said in an earlier post ours usually gets a slice of ham at lunch if he begs enough lol


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks Fenwoman, I have a bag of unopened wood pellet stuff that I've not used yet.. It will be going in next  I think it's gonna be a case of trial and error.. Cat poo smell I dont mind, its the wee.. This paper based stuff is by far the worst for wee smell!

Simon, I think I'll have to treat him lol, I have over 40 pouches of cat food in my cupboard, plus a few tins and trays. Another kitten coming in 3 weeks though so Im sure he'll help demolish them. Gonna stick to one a day I think, and the rest dry food.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Well Ive decided I like the wood based one the best, there's literally no wee smell which is what I hated most.
Also, Baby's enclosed litter tray arrived and he used it straight away even with the door down as it should be.. woohoo! Im gonna get Rex one too as he flicks litter everywhere!


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

*cat litter*

my three cats all use the same very large litter tray it used to be the base of a ferplast parrot cage , i use catsan it is expensive but its by far the best and most economical to use as you dont chuck much out as its so absorbant and stops the stink . i clear out all poos every day and stir it up it needs changing toatally after about 4 days . i sometimes use cat litter deodouriser powder too especially if mums coming over lol. but on the whole it never smells unless i didnt get round to changing it .


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

denny2 said:


> my three cats all use the same very large litter tray it used to be the base of a ferplast parrot cage , i use catsan it is expensive but its by far the best and most economical to use as you dont chuck much out as its so absorbant and stops the stink . i clear out all poos every day and stir it up it needs changing toatally after about 4 days . i sometimes use cat litter deodouriser powder too especially if mums coming over lol. but on the whole it never smells unless i didnt get round to changing it .


Sorry, would have to disagree - it may well be the best in your eyes, but I doubt very much it's the most economical. As I've said earlier I use Oko Plus which is expensive to buy compared to other litters, but a large bag lasts me for 3 months with 4 litter trays and I don't have to change totally after 4 days. I barely need to change totally at all, or use deodouriser.

I've used Catsan and there's no way it's more economical and less 'smelly' than Oko Plus!!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

I've tried most types (work in a pet shop). My favourite by a long way is Bob Martin litter crystals. Has anyone tried them?
I hate the smell of all the cat litter I've ever tried except this stuff (even before the cats use them).


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

just to say.. 
my cats have tesco own, as he hardly uses it no poitn etc etc anyway the cats that i am fostering came with so i use smartcat brilliant stuff, once its wwet it wells and turns in to a powder..take out the poo, it dries agin (uyou can use it for 10 - 15 days or somthing, before it smells!! very good 


http://www.smart-cat.co.uk/Index2.html


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

*oko plus never heard of it*

well may be not, but guess what if ide heard of oko plus i would have probably tried it and found it better , but the catsan is better than any other ive used . eg paper , wood chips and cheaper brands of cat litter .i only use deodouriser coz i like the smell , NOT coz the litter smells after use .and sometimes it does go longer than 4 days but then i like them cleaned totally now and again youre obviously not that fussy. maybe you could have said that you knew of a better one than catsan and introduce me to it nicely insted of the approach you took but again the way you went about dissing my post is typical of the folk on here.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

*bob martin crystals*

i quite liked them as they obliterate the smell , but my devon rex dosnt like them she mustnt like the feel of them on her feet.lol. my persian and maine **** arnt bothered what they pee in tho.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

denny2 said:


> and sometimes it does go longer than 4 days but then i like them cleaned totally now and again youre obviously not that fussy. maybe you could have said that you knew of a better one than catsan and introduce me to it nicely insted of the approach you took but again the way you went about dissing my post is typical of the folk on here.


Excuse me!! I was just pointing out that you were saying the litter you used was by far the best and most economical and I was saying that I disagreed with you, because it wasn't as economical as the one that I was using and I've tried most available litters, including Catsan, throughout 20+ years of cat ownership! I was not rude, I did not diss your post and I actually apologised for disagreeing with you. 

However, I take exception to the personal attack on me in your comment that I'm "obviously not that fussy". You do not know me so you are not in a position to make any "obvious" comments about me. My litter trays are cleaned and properly disinfected every week, which is good hygienic practice. It is not necessary to totally clean them out within 4 days using the litter that I am using.

And as far as your comment about my post being typical of the folk on here, why are you on here then? If anyone was rude it was you!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Well said Eileen:2thumb:


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## cat1974 (Apr 20, 2008)

I use tesco lightweight as I find it the best value. I have 7 cats, four go outside during the day and 3 are indoor all the time for various reasons. I like the idea of being able to flush the wood stuff though, so will give that a try this week! If they take to it I'll use that as I pay the bins by weight and it costs a fortune to get rid of the clay stuff.

Incidentally, re: the smell, I also have enclosed littters. That pretty much redues the smell, but if I forget to clean them, the cats just poop beside the box in protest lol! Can't say I blame them either!
Cat


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

I use the tesco wood based cat litter. I got a new kitten last week, rescued him from a woman at school who hadn't wormed him, he was lousy with fleas and was fed on adult cat food. He is only 9 weeks old, she'd already had him for a month. 

Anyway, i bought him an enclosed litter tray but he uses it to sleep in and uses the older cats litter tray to pee and poop in. Strange puss!


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

Worlds Best cat litter.
Expensive stuff, but well worth the money. Wet patches stick together and can just be scooped out so very little waste. It can even be flushed down the toilet.
With my 4 cats a big bac lasts me over a month.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

cat1974 said:


> I use tesco lightweight as I find it the best value. I have 7 cats, four go outside during the day and 3 are indoor all the time for various reasons. I like the idea of being able to flush the wood stuff though, so will give that a try this week! If they take to it I'll use that as I pay the bins by weight and it costs a fortune to get rid of the clay stuff.
> 
> Incidentally, re: the smell, I also have enclosed littters. That pretty much redues the smell, but if I forget to clean them, the cats just poop beside the box in protest lol! Can't say I blame them either!
> Cat


if you try the woodbased one, you'll wonder why you never used it before. You can compost it, flush it, etc. I put mine in the compost after putting the turds down the loo of course. It works out cheaper than other litters, even economy stuff as you don't need to use as much. Basically just an inch covering the base of the tray as it expands with use.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Like I said earlier in over 20 years of cat ownership I've tried most cat litters and almost every new one that's come on the market and I didn't like "Worlds Best" at all.

Fen, I thought the pelleted sawdust was the best thing ever, but my second cat simply refused to use it and pooed on the floor next to the litter tray, so I had to give up on that about 19 years ago! A lot of cats, especially indoor cats don't like it cos it's too hard on their feet. He would use it when it was pellets, but as soon as it broke down into soggy sawdust he wouldn't go near it!

OkoPlus is a sawdust based litter, but it's very fine and lightweight and clumps, so I can take the urine out as well as the stools. And it definitely works out cheaper than World's Best and pelleted litter.


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

I supose at the end of the day it is down to personal choice and my choice would be World's Best.

I have kept cats for 30 years and been breeding for 10 years. I've tried all sorts of cat litter, some of which my cats wouldn't even use!

Wood based is probably the most echonomical and I do tend to use it quite a bit for this reason. However one of my cats will not even go near it as she doesn't like the feel of it. Also i have had a couple of cats that have been alergic to it one would constantly sneeze and another ended up with sores on her feet. (And before anyone says it, no it wasn't because the litter was dirty, I clean my litter trays 3 times a day)

The best thing to do is shop around untill you find one your cat likes and stick to it.


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## han (Feb 26, 2007)

We have 3 indoor cats, and we use morrisons lightweight gravel cat litter. We can't use the wood based stuff as our cats don't like it. The gravel is fine by me. It's about £2 a bag (I can't remember how many kilos) but that lasts us a week normally.
As for feeding, who ever said 4 pouches of food a day for an adult cat seems a bit of a mental amount! That is the equivalent of a whole tin of food! I guess it depends a lot on if that is all they get.
Our three cats get two-three pouches each a day. But ours can be very wasteful, so we tend to share out two pouches between the three of them, and if they eat it all straight away then we put a third one down, and then a fourth if needs be. But 9 times out of 10 they don't.
As for biscuits, our two boys will eat them but our girl won't. They have two bowls of biscuits. One is Whiskas chicken flavour, and one is Royal Canin indoor 34...i think?? Something like that anyway! Those bowls are filled up morning and evening. They are only small bowls, so about 2 hand fulls in each bowl.


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

Our 4 get a tin each in the morning and the same again at night and will get through at least a bowl full of biscuits each a day. But having said that they are a large breed and very active.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

If anyone wants to try a sample of 100% natural, biodegradable, non tracking litter PM me. Its almost 100% odour free too even with the smelliest dumps.: victory:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Andy said:


> If anyone wants to try a sample of 100% natural, biodegradable, non tracking litter PM me. Its almost 100% odour free too even with the smelliest dumps.: victory:


im looking forward to mine!!!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

dragons jen said:


> I supose at the end of the day it is down to personal choice and my choice would be World's Best.


 Absolutely true! It's the same with vets (and many other things) someone will swear that their vet is the best in the country and sure enough someone else will come back and say they had a bad experience with the same vet!! No-one and nothing is perfect!



dragons jen said:


> I have kept cats for 30 years and been breeding for 10 years.


Can we ask what you breed?


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

I started with British Shorthair which I did with a friend of mine, we had 4 girls and a boy each. They all retired about 3 years ago and have gone to live in lovely pet homes. I couldn't keep them as they didn't get on to well with my son who is autistic and very noisy/clumsy. 
Now I have Norwegian forest cats and they are wonderful, absolutely bomb proof and very will behaved, but a bit mental! I only have 3 and they spend most of their time in the house, even the boy who is very clean and laid back. The boy is a black smoke and the girls are one silver tabby and white and one brown tabby and white who has alot of silver lines in her. They are 3-4 years old now and I've had a litter from each of the girls. They tend not to call all the time like the Brits did, they seem to be a bit more seasonal, I think the reason for this is they are a very natural cat, wasn't many generations ago they were semi-feral wandering the Norwegian forests.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I bred Somalis for nearly 20 years, but by the time my last girl was ready to be neutered there were too many "oldies" in the house and no more space to keep another one and I don't agree with moving on older cats unless there's a very good reason and I certainly don't see moving on older cats to be able to keep a younger one as a good enough reason, so I had no choice but to stop breeding about 3 years ago.

A friend of mine up here bred Wegies years ago - she got hers from the guy who imported the first one into the country and along with her I was a founder member of the Semi Long Hair Cat Association when it began years ago and so helped to organise seminars on all the slh breeds, including the Wegie. They're a lovely cat!


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## han (Feb 26, 2007)

Our cats are Ragdolls. When we picked up our third (and last....for now) the breeder had a few Norwegian Forest Cats. She had an odd eyed white (i _think _that's what he is) and i absolutely fell in love with him!!


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

I agree with you feorag about moving on older cats, but mine just wouldn't settle in the house with my youngster and I didn't want to see them spending the rest of their lives in the cattery, so I decided to have them all neutered and find them lovely homes, they weren't really old, only about 6 years, and they all settled in very well and are very happy. All the 4 girls went in twos to a couple of friends who live quite close by and I see them regularly. The boy went to a relative who lives quite a distance away, but I see him a couple of times a year and get regular reports, especially when he has been naughty!
It was very sad to see them go, but they all have wonderful lives and are spoilt rotten.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well I said "unless there was a very good reason" and if they weren't happy in your house, then to me that is a good reason.

What is not a good reason is to basically get rid of a queen who you have used to further your own ambition, just because she's too old to breed from and you want to replace her with a kitten that you can breed from - that, to me, is never going to be a good reason.

I re-homed one of my breeding queens because she was very timid and never kept her place in the hierarchy, being superceded by all her children. She was being bullied by the Siamese and just wanted to live in the living room and never leave it, which she did for about 3 years, but she was never happy. My son took her to live with him, where she is the only cat, and she's extremely happy. That was a good reason as far as I was concerned, because she is now a much happier, less stressed cat,.


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## cat1974 (Apr 20, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> if you try the woodbased one, you'll wonder why you never used it before. You can compost it, flush it, etc. I put mine in the compost after putting the turds down the loo of course. It works out cheaper than other litters, even economy stuff as you don't need to use as much. Basically just an inch covering the base of the tray as it expands with use.


I use wood now and find it fantastic! They still poop beside it if I don't clenm it in tme but it is so easy to get rid of! It is now fertiliser ofr my garden!!!!!!! Thanks for the idea all!
Cat


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## cat1974 (Apr 20, 2008)

Not sure how this got on the breeding cats but here is my tuppenceworth.... and I doubt many will like it!

I do not "breed" animals, be they human or non human. Nor do I but or sell them. I respect the fact that all of you here take good care of your animals physically, but I reaklly have to doubt the motivations behind that. Please explain the motivations behind "breeding". I genuinely ask the question. I am not attacking people but I would like to try to understand.

As far as I can is it is either motivated by ego (look what I can produce) or money (look how much I can make from this). With cats I feel the former is more likely as nobody yet got rich breeding cats.

Another question I have is the morality. Ok the problems are breed-specific (persians and respiratpry problems etc) but the morals are the same. Isn't is like breeding a super-race of cats? Thats the way I see it.

I don't mean to offend. I am sure you feed and take good care of your cats. But I just got a dumped half siamese (thrown to dogs at 6 weeks old) with the worst cat flu I have ever seen (in years of rescue) and the vet said her immune system is compromised from the siamese inbred blood in her. I am angry for a reason. Not personal against anyone though.

Cat


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well as an ex cat breeder let me try and answer that.

Firstly might I say that you have a very simplistic view of life! If humans didn't breed we would die out. If humans didn't breed domestic animals they would die out too, so if everyone thought like you the world would simply be populated by wild animals. Is that your ideal world then?

Everyone who breeds will likely give you a different reason why they choose to do so. I chose to breed simply because I wanted to - no other reason. I love my cats and breeding kittens from them was an added pleasure.

Your statement "nobody yet got rich breeding cats" is actually untrue. On the contrary there are people out there who have made money breeding cats, but they aren't the ones who do it for the reasons that I did. Esmond Gay began breeding Bengals with nothing and ended up buying a stately home and a load of wild animals on the back of overcharging for his kittens. He was banned by the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy in 2000, convicted on 4 counts of causing unnecessary suffering to Bengal cats) - he's the type of person you should be worrying about!

I also showed my cats and had a great deal of success with them, but my ego was not the motivation to breed either, because even on the days when I didn't win a thing, I still brought the best cat home with me!! And there were days when I didn't win.

My breed had always been thought to be a healthy "non-interfered with" breed, but recently a disease has been discovered in them that can be eliminated with blood testing and selective breeding and all breeders are working towards eliminating that disease by blood testing and neutering. 

The point is that caring, careful, knowledgeable breeders do have morality and do put the animal's welfare first. No one in their right mind wants to breed an animal that will die young. However, there are many 'backyard breeders' out there, who breed for whatever reason from animals that shouldn't be bred from, and they (and the irresponsible owners of moggie cats who don't bother to neuter) are the ones you should be concerned about!

Finally I would like your vet to justify his comment about the Siamese inbred blood in the cat you have rescued. Did he see a copy of the Siamese pedigree to know that the Siamese had been inbred, or is he just assuming, because a Siamese is a pedigree cat, that it will be inbred? Just a rhetorical question of course because I know he can't answer that!

Many 6 week old kittens would have a problem dealing with a severe case of cat flu and many of them will die from it, whether they had Siamese blood in them or not. Also stress can create huge problems for any cat but especially a kitten and it sounds like this kitten had had a lot of stress to deal with, not including the flu, so it's no wonder it's in a bad way! Quite frankly sometimes vets say the stupidest things.

I've also bred Siamese and know them well. Most of them are not inbred, but they do not "fight" when they are ill, they tend to adopt a "leave me alone to die" stance and you have to fight for them!! There's a huge difference!! And maybe I should point out that Siamese are one of the longest lived pedigree breeds, regularly reaching ages beyond 16 & 20 years (80 & 96 in human years!)

Oh and one other thing - maybe you should have posted your post as an original thread under the title "why do people breed" to get a fair response as not many people will read your post on a thread about cat litter, especially a thread that has been going for so long that most people interested in it won't come back to it now!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I waited for your response before I answered Eileen as you know how slow I am at typing. LOL I too used to breed and show Siamese and as Eileen said they dont fight if ill but they are no more prone to illnesses than other breeds. My longest living Siamese was 18 years old and until old age never had any illness. I gave up breeding Siamese when I got involved in cat rescue. Its here that a lot of the problems occur as if not neutered mogs breed like wild fire then the owner cant cope. Flu in a young kitten is usually passed from the mum which then makes the kitten a flu carrier and stress can bring out the symptoms whenever the cat feels stressed. I agree, to get a fair account of this subject a new thread should have been started


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

cat1974 said:


> Not sure how this got on the breeding cats but here is my tuppenceworth.... and I doubt many will like it!
> 
> I do not "breed" animals, be they human or non human. Nor do I but or sell them. I respect the fact that all of you here take good care of your animals physically, but I reaklly have to doubt the motivations behind that. Please explain the motivations behind "breeding". I genuinely ask the question. I am not attacking people but I would like to try to understand.
> 
> ...


 Let me ask you. Are you a member of PETA?
Are you vegan? Just out of interest.
Your vet is a twit. Siamese or any other purebreed is not likely to have a compromised immune system simply because they are purebred. Perhaps he said what he thought it would please you to hear? (if he actually said that at all)
I breed dogs. I also breed chickens, rats, mice, hamsters and goats. I breed because I can. It isn't illegal or immoral. I breed because I enjoy rearing young animals and in the case of goats and chickens, eating them too. So there you have it. My response.
Nothing personal you understand.


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## Rembrandt (Dec 29, 2006)

cat1974 said:


> Not sure how this got on the breeding cats but here is my tuppenceworth.... and I doubt many will like it!
> 
> I do not "breed" animals, be they human or non human. Nor do I but or sell them. I respect the fact that all of you here take good care of your animals physically, but I reaklly have to doubt the motivations behind that. Please explain the motivations behind "breeding". I genuinely ask the question. I am not attacking people but I would like to try to understand.
> 
> ...


Cat,

Have you turned your snakes vegetarian then? Or do you still feed them rats, which someone has bred so that you can take the absolute best care of the animals in your charge? We all contribute - even you.

Your _*half*_ siamese is not likely to have been bred by a legitimate breeder such as those who have posted on this thread... so I suspect your frustration is somewhat misplaced.

Most breeders, myself included, don't have a production line and are actually trying to improve their breed. Many go to great lengths to prevent their kittens being sold into breeding - I myself have a great vet who is prepared to neuter kittens I don't keep for show provided I keep for for a couple of weeks longer than the standard 13 weeks- which I'm glad to say is becoming more common. 

End of the day, I breed a small number of cats for the purposes of showing them, which I accept is entirely down to my own ego - but they live the life of luxury and want for nothing.

Final words - *it is not legitimate breeders who contribute to the problem*.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Rembrandt said:


> Cat,
> 
> Have you turned your snakes vegetarian then? Or do you still feed them rats, which someone has bred so that you can take the absolute best care of the animals in your charge? We all contribute - even you.
> 
> ...


Oooh what cats do you breed? Ears pricked up when you said that:lol2:


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## Rembrandt (Dec 29, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> Oooh what cats do you breed? Ears pricked up when you said that:lol2:


Oh it has to be British! Big old teddy bears!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Oooh what cats do you breed? Ears pricked up when you said that:lol2:


:lol2: No surprise there then!!


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## fran2491 (Oct 10, 2008)

sophisticat pink is good hun as mentioned above i also have a hooded litter tray with a flap door these help with the smell :flrt:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Ooh who ever would have thought a cat litter thead could get so cotraversial?! :lol2: 

Cat1974 has posted her animal rights views on another thread where she asked for and got help, then started having a go at thos ewho were offering it. I can't help thinking it's a litle misguided to start posting such views on a forum made up of pet owners and breeders. 

I response to the OP. I use wood pellet litter. It lasts ages, and my (indoor) cat is happy to use it. 

Also, regarding feeding as it has been mentioned. There is a school of thought that feeding dry alone is not ideal for cats and can lead to kidney problems in later life, so cats do not have a high thirst drive and so may not drink enough.


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