# Bearded Dragons Cohabiting Debate



## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi guys, after a recent threads discussion on this subject, and with it seemingly being a popular topic that a lot of new members to the forum have asked about, I thought I'd start a new debate to see if the general feeling towards this has changed in any way over time. 

It's my observation that a search on Google comes out 50/50 for and against, more than 4 shops I go to say it is fine as long as certain guidelines are met, the books I have read have said the same also. With the exception of 1 person, everyone else I have met that have or do keep more than one Bearded Dragon together have had no problems that they speak of. (The one that did had 2 males btw) But it is not viewed as fine or 50/50 on this forum from what I have read over time.

In fact, here is a quote from one of the most popular books on Bearded Dragons. This book is used as reference by vets I know, has been recommended to me by various sources, and in the past has been quoted as "The bible" for Beaded dragon books. In fact I'm pretty sure that a lot of us will have this book. The Bearded Dragon Manual.

Bearded Dragon Manual (Herpetocultural Library): Amazon.co.uk: Philippe De Vosjoli, Robert Mailloux, Susan Donoghue: Books

In which it says :

"Of course, if you're going to own one bearded dragon, it doesn't take much more work (and can be much more entertaining) to keep a pair of these social creatures." Page 17 

Any chance we can have an educational grown up debate on this issue? :2thumb:

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

Simply put, Bearded dragons are solitary lizards, however...

As naturally known.. 2 males together will fight.. if you was to take 50 vivariums and put 2 males in each, 1 pair would get on fine.. the other 49 would kill each other.. it's just not worth trying.

Multiple females seem to get along fine providing they have space and aren't over crowded, they can in some instances be just as aggressive as males, however it's far less common to occur.

In breeding circles, IE male & female mixtures, you can cohabit, however this comes down to having experience with the individual dragons, in most cases the Male will continue to pressure the females regardless of the situation, causing stress, egg binding and all other forms of stress related illness, Although some will suggest to have multiple females, it still does not necessarily mean the problem will be solved and will often just mean you now have 2 gravid females being pestered by a horny male.

Generally speaking all bearded dragons should be kept solitary, unless as stated above the keeper knows the personality, the traits and has hands on experience with every dragon in question and at that point would only be advised if they had spare set-ups ready to go at a moments notice... and if that's the case... why bother cohabiting? you have another setup!


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

Cohabiting is okay in my opinion providing you know what you're doing and the following are met: 

-You MUST have a spare set-up in case seperation is needed
-You MUST have plenty of experience keeping the species individually so you know what behaviours, signs, problems to look out for
-The individuals MUST both be healthy, tested and quarantined if necessary
-The individuals MUST be sexed, correctly!

Definately not recommended for beginners and in my opinion pretty pointless even if you do meet the above criteria (apart from breeding of course). If you've got a spare set-up already then why not just house them seperately and completely negate the risk. It's of no benefit to the animals at all to be housed together.


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

You will find most breeders keep them all solitary and introduce them to each other as and when.


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## Spot (Jun 15, 2011)

Just speculating here, but I suspect that a lot of people who say they've got two together DO have problems, they just don't realise it because it hasn't become critical yet.

In other words, they are missing the early signs of dominance and so on because they aren't familiar with the nuances of reptile behaviour.

I've seen someone who insisted her beardies were 'cuddling' but even I could see that one was actually stamping the other one down - and I don't even have a beardy. She couldn't see the dominance and bullying for what it was because she was looking at their interactions with mammals in mind - not reptiles. She didn't understand the arm-waving and head-bobbing and whatnot and was totally misinterpreting their behaviour. They've been separated and it's all sorted out now, but it could have gone nasty and to the owner it would have seemed sudden and inexplicable simply because she was accustomed to mammals not reptiles and it hadn't really occurred to her that the body language might be so different.


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## Kuja (Dec 14, 2011)

When i first started looking into BD's i was set on getting two(both male and female) then i saw the market was flooded to no end and well didn't want to add to the problems further, so quit that idea there and then. Have since got a singular and he seems to be doing fine on his own(can't exactly ask him if he wants a chum  although the rate i talk to him you would never know i can't speak bearded dragon)

Now a lot of people seem to have success in keeping them, and if you got the money it might be worth a try, however i think two vivs should be setup just in case and separation would have to follow before something happened, with just the two you would also run the risk of a possible male breeding like a rabbit, and even two females there can sometimes be issues, multiply that amount by a greater number and you keep the same risks, 6 females sharing same place, some might be fine, others not so much.

Although, i don't really think there is any benefit either way, yes it would be nice having two "living" together(would end up more tolerating each other i suspect) but isn't much point really :/

what am trying to say is for me the risks outweighed any benefit i would have got out of it, and at the end of the day its the lizard which needs the care and not me.

</EndStoryTime>


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## ReptileWoman (Dec 28, 2011)

*Appologies for the long reply*

Ahh this debate, almost as good as the substrate debate!!

Now I personally have NEVER had an issue co-habiting, I also had 2 males who go along perfectly infact they couldnt bear to be apart, if one went to the vets the other one had to come or the other would tear the viv apart and scratch on glass till his friend returned, sadly after them living happily together for 8 years one died of natural causes, my male beardie was depressed wouldnt eat wouldnt move just lay there safe to say the most unhappy beardie i've ever seen!

So out i went to get him a girlie and they have been together ever since and after a while someone offered me another female who's female companion had died so i took her in too and there has never been an issue, no food agression no agression towards eachother....

and my male doesnt even try to breed (mind you he is very old now roughly 9 and a half also with mbd (due to the previous owner)). 

so i'd say if you watch them and are prepared incase something does happen because things do change then why the hell not, mine have been fine and I do keep an eye on them but mine are lost without eachother, they follow eachother everywhere, walking round the house the only difference is who they run to for cuddles, shadow and charazard are mummys babies and amber is a daddys girl.


Oh and also, I have never yet seen any dominance issues in a year and half of them being together, no arm waving head bobbing or anything, they have a big enough viv that they have their own space to go to. but you do have to be wary, the slightest issue and mine would be seperated no question of the matter. (oh and I'm not an immature keep or anything else I now the dominance signs and do watch out for them, end of the day if there was issues and I had to seperate them so what they're still my beardies and I'd still have them all.)


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## xxx-dztini-xxx (May 12, 2009)

interesting thread. Ive had a male and female live together, which was fine for awhile, then she laid 2 clutches of eggs and it wasnt fair on her so separated them. She now lives with another female and all is so good so far.
On the other hand though my friend keeps his male and female together and they get on just fine, they have only had 2 clutches in the 4 odd years of living together, unlike my female who allthough still separated is on her 4th clutch poor thing.

I personally think like humans some will get on some wont, it depends on their personalities, not everyone will get on with everyone : victory:


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

Interesting reading guys. This is my situation and experience with my two. :

I Bought my first viv, custom built with background etc, it took about 3 months to complete. So in that time I read through loads and loads on here, and elsewhere, asking everyone I knew who had them and people in the shops etc to gain as much info before I got them. I wanted 2, and with the exception of this forum everyone else I spoke to said as long as they were not two males it should be fine. (Of course the conversation went deeper than just that, but they were not saying do not do it like on here basically.) I didn't want to buy baby dragons when there were so many out there in the rescue centres in need of homes. After reading on here, and elsewhere, and asking many many people and shops etc, I decided I was going to go with the 2. But, the one thing people on here and shops etc were saying was 2 females is the better cohabiting option, rather than a male and female, I didn't want to breed, and male male was not recommended. So I sourced my 2 female dragons from my local rescue centre. They had always been together with no probs, they are related, and were at the rescue for a good 6 months as they were going to keep them as there own. So they had been well monitored. They were the same size etc. So 2 related females, same size, 3 months to gen up and ask questions etc, big tank being purpose built, all looking good. 

No sign of dominance, no black beards, no aggression/fighting or signs of food dominance. Then one day I noticed one female bobbing, black beard etc. Took her straight down to my local shop, she was a he! Right ok, so had a small setup in case of prob set aside, he spent the night in there whilst I built up a brand new fully kitted size viv. They spent 5 ish months apart. 1 month now back together and the difference in them is amazing. 

When they were seperated, they seem to lose all personality. Hardly moving, neither of them pooed in their vivs, just in baths, just didn't seem alert etc. Once they were back together, their colours have really come out, they are sometimes sleeping next to each other, sometimes apart. They are both using the entire viv now not just a section of it. They are much more animated. Eating really well again, too well, now on diet. 

Just to clarify. I have a 4 x 2 x 2 fully kitted out in the garage ready to go. All I'd need to do is bring it in, Switch it on and in he goes. Stats etc all set ready. Just to add that I have movable cameras in each viv which record on motion activation. So even when I'm not watching them sat in front of them, I know how they have been acting throughout the day and night. I am seeing a direct benefit in cohabiting after separation. 

So I ask this, for the guys posting above that say they can't see any point in cohabiting, have you tried cohabiting before? Rthompson, you say "Bearded dragons are solitary lizards", which is fair to say is the common view taken on RFUK, and is said elsewhere as well, however elsewhere also they are called "social", like in the quoted text in the Bearded Dragon manual as posted above? 

As much as there are experts/books/web/forums etc saying they are not social, there are just as many saying they are. And this is the debate I am keenly interested in. 

In everything in life I don't follow. I listen to all sides, take everything in, make up my own mind based on all the information I have gathered, and make my decisions on that. So in this instance, I am swaying with cohabiting being a good thing, under the right conditions of course.


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

You are certainly not incorrect, there are sides to every story and there is naturally a lot of success with cohabitation, I have kept numerous females together without a problem.

The reason we still label them as solitary is that they have no desire to be social and no requirement to live with another, they live perfectly happy lives on their own and do not require a 'friend'

It's difficult to determine until the moment comes, granted.. 9 times out of 10 a pair of females will be great together, especially if they've been together most of their lives, however there is always that risk that can cause it to go nipples up which most would rather avoid.

As said, alot of it comes down to your own personal knowledge of the individual dragon, having hands on experience with the species in general the animal in question, only then can you as a keeper make the judgement to house them together.


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## sazzle (Jun 3, 2008)

I have 4 beardies (previously 9) 
With the 4 I have now, all are males and 3 are kept individually in 4x2x2 vivs, then my special boy (bad deformity/spinal issue) is housed in a 3x1.5x1.5, I would never dream of housing these guys together, they go nuts just seeing one another when one is out being fussed. 
When I had 9 beardies, I had a trio (MMF) in a viv the rest all individual. They got along fine and I never had any issues, nor did he ever do 'the act' I think it depends on the beardies, they aren't guaranteed to always get along and this is where issues can arise and dominance can be mistaken for 'cuddling' if you buy 2 that have already been housed together and you're 100% on sex I can't see the issue providing spare set up is readily available and you closely monitor their behaviour x


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## PaleRider (Sep 5, 2009)

*Social animals*

Whoever said that beardies are antisocial animals, which live in isolation, was incorrect. They have a complex range of social interactions and a well developed physical language, and to truly appreciate these animals, and encourage natural behaviour, then they positively should be kept in well managed groups of one male to multiple females. 

Of course, this requires space. Big space, with a 2m x 2m x 2m cube being adequate to house a single male and a harem of four or five females. You can use the height to create a physical hierarchy within the space, using large branches etc. (beardies are surprisingly acrobatic climbers, which may surprise the keepers of some of the more pudding-like beardies) as vertical position (and thus the best basking sites) is a status related privilege, thereby promoting a sense of "rank" within the group, as would be found in the wild. 

Careful monitoring is always advised, and a "plan B" backup viv will be needed, but with enough space, this is by far the most rewarding way to keep beardies; both for the keeper and the animals. 

Of course, if you only have a pokey little 4'x2'x2' viv, then you are probably better off sticking to a single animal, as you stand little chance of establishing the group hierarchies required.


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm pleasantly surprised by the replies in this thread so far seeing as it's a difficult subject to agree on. I was expecting a couple of words reply in most posts, but you guys are taking the time to explain things and that's great.


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## Dawson (Jun 8, 2008)

*a bit of both*

I think it is true that beardies do not require friends and are very happy to live a solitary life but I also believe that once they have had a long term friend they get used to the companionship and will miss their friend.

Take my situation, I started off with 1 female and she lived on her own very happily for over 2 years. I then got the chance of a rescue dragon which came with a small viv so I decided to house them together.

After gradually introducing them on neutral ground I introduced the male into the females viv. They lived together for over 2 years without any problems.

To cut a long story short it turned out that the rescue male had kidney problems and died a few months ago. Ever since then my females.behaviour has dramatically changed, she is no longer very active and can't even be bothered to eat unless the or locust runs past her. The only way I can describe it is that she seems to.be miserable and i.think.she misses him.


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## kgoodwin (Jan 11, 2012)

This thread is awesome! cool hearing about different peoples views and opinions. i have 1 male and 2 females together and they all get on okay. when i get the females out the male hates it.


I know they are known as solitary, but i think it all depends on the beardy itself, some may want to be kept on their own. 

I wonder if tameness comes into it, i mean my beardies were all brought up being use to being handled and with other beardies, so do they become use to being around other reps......


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Bearded dragons can be housed succesfully, but as already mentioned certain factors need to be addressed, and lets not forget the most important of them all... the owner reading his/her own animals and the personalitys

If your gonna co-habit, be responsible 

Me yes I have kept bearded dragons together, I have also kept some solitary, back when doing my animal care there was two beautiful bearded dragons housed together then too (never were they separated), in a big 6ft enclousre, Izzy and Rex, we observed Rex passively allowing Izzy to have first choice of veggy dish sometimes (was a big dish) and he would waddle over after she had finished stuffing her fat face, they bred a few times succesfully but for the best part of the time Rex left her alone.

I definately agree with the previous statement that they are known as solitary but can form some kind of social structure in captivity, there seems to be repeated stories of animals (even in the snake section) not being themselves when animals die or are removed there are also stories I have herd where relationships that shouldn't work but do can happen, but captivity in itself is unatural so that might be what provokes that kind of behavior (as in them relying on one another to cope with stress (particularly stressy animals), I think taking that to its most logical though it could be explained in a number of other ways too, because people tend to anthromorphise their animals.


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