# Serval's + enclosure :)



## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Excited To be finally saying after so much research !! i am soon to be getting not 1 but 2 servals within the next month/2 !! I will post updates and show you my enclosure etc.. soon as now its busy times ahead !! :2thumb: If you know anyone in Ireland even thats good at building them i am emailing a few people out there just not very good at the handy building stuff! I am Building 2 seperate enclosures Next to one another with access in the middle to make it one big enclosure also !!


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## aliburke (Jun 20, 2011)

Jayk17 said:


> Excited To be finally saying after so much research !! i am soon to be getting not 1 but 2 servals within the next month/2 !! I will post updates and show you my enclosure etc.. soon as now its busy times ahead !! :2thumb: If you know anyone in Ireland even thats good at building them i am emailing a few people out there just not very good at the handy building stuff! I am Building 2 seperate enclosures Next to one another with access in the middle to make it one big enclosure also !!


Are you in the North or how far down South are you? I got a guy up here to build mine to specification and he did a really good job!


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Im in the south oo cool do you have any pics would be great ? :2thumb: i wont mind paying travelling expenses if i get a really good job done !


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

look forward to updates, love Servals... and enclosure build threads


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

subbed to see progress. can't wait for this!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm posting on this so I can be updated when you get them in case I miss it!

Good luck - I love Servals too.


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## aliburke (Jun 20, 2011)

Jayk17 said:


> Im in the south oo cool do you have any pics would be great ? :2thumb: i wont mind paying travelling expenses if i get a really good job done !


 You can just look up my previous posts, ive loads of pics on this somewhere. 

The name of the shed business is Ahead in Sheds, based in Lisburn, his name is Chris. Dunno if he would go that far out though but wouldn't hurt to ask or for him to tell you if he can recommend anyone more local. Hope this helps.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Cool Ive Pics of them i can post !! :2thumb: just dont know how to post pictures on this !! yea i guess any local carpenter can build an enclosure!... Iv'e the design finished it would be 2 enclosures stuck together with a slide door in the middle which i can pull open from outside of the enclosure ! if someone can let me know how to upload pictures on this thanksss! :no1:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Cool Ive Pics of them i can post !! :2thumb: just dont know how to post pictures on this !! yea i guess any local carpenter can build an enclosure!... Iv'e the design finished it would be 2 enclosures stuck together with a slide door in the middle which i can pull open from outside of the enclosure ! if someone can let me know how to upload pictures on this thanksss! :no1:


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## aliburke (Jun 20, 2011)

open a photobucket account, upload pics there then once uploaded right click on pic, it'll bring up a load of links, click on the IMG link, it'll copy the pic then go on to your post and paste the link onto the post. If that doesn't make sense just say and ill try to explain a bit better alrighty? :2thumb:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Perfect Thank You aliburke! 

Heres the Female : victory: Have to think of names in the coming month :no1:







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:blush:
AND HERES THE BOY !!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

They're stunning! :flrt: 

Your boy looks unusual, much smaller spots that seem to be not so black.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yea the boy is only around a year and half old  and the female is 4 years old :2thumb: that could be the difference :flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

that female is gorgeous! :flrt:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Nice cats, boring enclosures! Hope yours are going to be more interesting than those :2thumb:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

o yea defo bigger space also !! plus lots of ideas for enrichment :mf_dribble::mf_dribble: Looking forward to it !!


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I'd have it quite heavily planted aswell if I were you, 'cos they can be quite shy.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

ALSO I KNOW YOU NEED DEFRA LICENSE TO IMPORT TO U.K IS THIS NEEDED IN IRELAND DO ANYONE KNOW ? :gasp: ..... As ive emailed the Department of agriculture but haven't got a reply in 2 days now ........


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

o yea looks great also ! :2thumb: make it like a mini jungle ! :lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Jayk17 said:


> o yea looks great also ! :2thumb: make it like a mini jungle ! :lol2:


Well I'd personally plant it with big grasses and stuff like that to make it more savannah than jungle.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

What country are they in


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

They are Based in Mainland Europe.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

They will need to be picked up in a defra approved van and then quarantined


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

ive looked up about it just waiting on approval with the department of agriculture as its not in the U.k there going to its the Rep. Of Ireland.. Laws are abit different as theres no Dwal here and been told DEFRA is only needed in Uk but im booking a DEFRA Approved courier anyway... Just have to look for the right one ... also if they have there rabies shot before 21 days here they dont need quarantine.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

I am sorry as far as i am aware you have been misinformed ,you need Quarantine ,the 21 days shot doesnt apply to ZOO animals which these are classed as

So what you are more or less saying when i next import an animal ,if i have it delivered to ireland ,then i bring to uk ,i need no quarantine ,I WISH

But its up to you what you do and by the way i am also pretty sure that male is not a pure serval


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

this is why i contacted the department of agriculture just to be sure and find out as i know these are not your average cat... thanks for your knowledge i appreciate it :2thumb:

why would you say that male is not a serval ? :gasp:

what could it be then ? as savannahs look different + they have all the right vet certificates... and ive seen servals with small spots before .....


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Jayk17 said:


> this is why i contacted the department of agriculture just to be sure and find out as i know these are not your average cat... thanks for your knowledge i appreciate it :2thumb:
> 
> why would you say that male is not a serval ? :gasp:
> 
> what could it be then ? as savannahs look different + they have all the right vet certificates... and ive seen servals with small spots before .....


Think youl find Dave knows his cats.
If i ever wanted any i would get advice from him.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Ive messaged him alot before just didn't have a large deposit at the time is all .... ... i just would of been more careful with words only if i was 100% sure... to say such things!! and if so go into more detail then to just leave it by saying that .... if your willing to say such things EXPLAIN Please?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

To be honest, if I were to buy one of their offspring (which I wouldn't, 'cos I don't really want to keep cats), I would want to see DNA evidence that the dad is pure serval. Being so unusual looking, there's a good chance that it isn't the real deal.....especially as (I'm assuming) you're only buying these on the strength of a photograph.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Ive emailed them about this! i did think the male was abit different to the female but all i was thinking was well hes going to a better home now like i still like him but if i was ever gunna breed them i would need prove of 100% dna ! i was building 2 separate enclosures for them also!... thanks for the help! :2thumb:


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Not sure what you mean Jay 

The male just doesnt look right , really need better pictures :2thumb:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I suppose that's the risk you take when shopping from overseas, eh? Personally, if I was shelling out 1000's, then I'd make the trip to go and see them in person first.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Well i wasn't paying any transfers to the bank i was going over and if i was satisfied then i would pay next month ! Im gunna make sure to get there DNA now or im not buying !! :whip: even though there lovely ha..


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Jayk17 said:


> why would you say that male is not a serval ? :gasp:
> 
> what could it be then ? as savannahs look different + they have all the right vet certificates... and ive seen servals with small spots before .....


I agree it's definitely not a Savannah cat, but it doesn't look like a full Serval either to me.

The head is wrong to me.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

well i can confirm it is 100% Serval now! actually i know the breeders parents owners really well had to contact them also! it was just the angle of the pic :lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Out of interest, what proof have they given you?


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Munkholm in Denmark - is where hes parents are from i know the guy there from doing a zoological course online such a small world eh? so hes got the documents and stuff for hes familys past which is linked to the guy whos selling me the servals etc as i just went out of my way to get in contact with toddy eventually found hes email online and asked him also sending pictures to him also to confirm...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

It pays to do the research. Hope it's all on the level:2thumb:


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## CheloniaDude (Oct 3, 2011)

*The Female*

:gasp: The female... she's amazing :gasp:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

*Update******

An Update *** im Very unsure to get these servals im expected to have them by around mid - end of march but say it would be better of getting a cub more so then these guys : victory: any suggestions?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jayk17 said:


> ALSO I KNOW YOU NEED DEFRA LICENSE TO IMPORT TO U.K IS THIS NEEDED IN IRELAND DO ANYONE KNOW ? :gasp: ..... As ive emailed the Department of agriculture but haven't got a reply in 2 days now ........


Your best off chasing up the DEFRA equivalant in Ireland rather than trying to second guess and go along with DEFRA rules. It's no different to asking someone in France what they need to import/quarantine etc. 

You know too that you will need to apply for CITES papers as servals are Appendix II? I'm assuming by "DEFRA licence" this may be what you are referring to. Ireland is a member party of CITES, so you will almost certainly need an import document, and as they are coming from Europe you will need an export permit too.

Get the paperwork wrong and your servals will end up being seized by customs.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Iv'e contacted Cites already i do not need a permit this is what they said below.... : victory:

In terms of CITES, I can confirm that a Serval Cat (_Leptailurus serval_) is an Appendix II and EC Annex B specimen. Any movement between Europe and Ireland is not considered import/export under the terms of the EU Wildlife Trade Regulations so no Import Permit or Export Permit is required. 

“_Where a live specimen of a species listed in Annex B is moved within the Community, the holder of the specimen may relinquish it only after ensuring that the intended recipient is adequately informed of the accommodation, equipment and practices required to ensure the specimen will be properly cared for_.”

Effectively this means that with respect solely to the movement within the European Community of a live specimen of a species listed in Annex B it would not require prior authorization from a CITES Management Authority, i.e. a certificate would not be required for this movement. 

As you will be aware in terms of animal welfare you should be cognisant of Article 9(5) which states that; 

"_When any live specimens are transported into, from or within the Community or are held during any period of transit or transhipment, they shall be prepared, moved and cared for in a manner such as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment and, in the case of animals, in conformity with Community legislation on the protection of animals during transport_.”.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jayk17 said:


> Iv'e contacted Cites already i do not need a permit this is what they said below.... : victory:
> 
> In terms of CITES, I can confirm that a Serval Cat (_Leptailurus serval_) is an Appendix II and EC Annex B specimen. Any movement between Europe and Ireland is not considered import/export under the terms of the EU Wildlife Trade Regulations so no Import Permit or Export Permit is required.
> 
> ...


Forgive me for being ignorant on this, is Eire an EU member? If so, then no, you don't need anything as it is an internal movement, but if Eire is not an EU member state then you would need a permit as it is not an internal movement.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Your grand lol Yes Ian, Ireland is a Member of the E.U, Which states in the cites paragraph ive copied and pasted from an email i got from them previously.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

ian14 said:


> Forgive me for being ignorant on this, is Eire an EU member? If so, then no, you don't need anything as it is an internal movement, but if Eire is not an EU member state then you would need a permit as it is not an internal movement.



Is United Kingdom part of the EU , do you not need nothing as its a internal movement ,yes you DO ,you CANT just bring animals in as an internal movement


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

animalsbeebee said:


> Is United Kingdom part of the EU , do you not need nothing as its a internal movement ,yes you DO ,you CANT just bring animals in as an internal movement


In terms of CITES, once they are within the EU, you do not require further import/export CITES paperwork. If you did, bringing back any species of python or boa from Hamm, for example, would require permits as they are all at least Annex B!
My query was whether Eire was an EU member, which I wasn't aware of, as Eire is not part of the UK.


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm Not sure about any other country as that email i got from Cites was for Ireland and the country i was getting them from .. Licenses vary ... aswell as other paperwork in different countries.. Yes Ireland is part of the EU since 1973.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jayk17 said:


> I'm Not sure about any other country as that email i got from Cites was for Ireland and the country i was getting them from .. Licenses vary ... aswell as other paperwork in different countries.. Yes Ireland is part of the EU since 1973.


So CITES-wise, no problem. Just make sure there are no peculiar import controls.
All looks good, and good luck with your servals!


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yea, Contacted the Department of Agriculture just so i can get a statement from them what i exactly need and if it can all go... cause even if you get servals say from Uk - Ireland even on the ferry domestic animals now need EU Passports which only started there a few months ago, But because servals are wild animals they can't go under pet passports there for just have to make sure i can bring them over... they said it needs to be under Balai Directive but thats for animals on display use, educational use, or laboratory use which im not using them for none of the above.. so there just checking with the veterinary inspectorate what i exactly need.Hopefully i shall here something this morning.. i may be the first person in Ireland to have a Serval cause they honestly not sure whats needed lol... Fingers Crossed :mf_dribble:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

All in Hand its alot of work as im always contacting the department of agriculture (DEFRA it would be in the U.K) on a daily basis so they got in contact with myself yesterday saying what i said above and they should get in contact with me today at some point so i shall keep this updated :whistling2:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

You still need to quarantine in a registered/licensed place for 6 months (I think it is) like you do in UK? For Rabies and whatnot...


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yea and would that be the same if i was to get a Serval from the U.K? yea they did explain quarantine in a Balai registered premises Just finding out how long it is in Ireland also... Hopefully i would find this out today ! there soo slow at responding ! lol :2thumb:


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Ok So ...... 
You have asked about the possibility of importing these cats from the United Kingdom. You will note from my earlier reply that the Balai rules apply to movements into Ireland from *any* Member State of the EU and this also includes the UK. 

On Your question regarding the period of post-import quarantine, the position is that quarantine would be required for a period of 4 months, but this period may reduced to 30 days provided the animal had remained since birth or at least 6 months before dispatch in a Balai-approved body, centre or institute of origin and had spent a 30-day period of pre-import isolation with no contact with other animals not of the same health status and where no cases of rabies have been reported in the previous 6 months.
There are 3 Balai approved premises in Ireland – Dublin Zoo, Fota and Tayto Park. Any question of whether any of these bodies would facilitate quarantine on behalf of a private individual is a matter for negotiation between the parties concerned.

So ive contact them for prices on Quarantine so hopefully i will get a responce :2thumb:


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Jayk17 said:


> Ok So ......
> You have asked about the possibility of importing these cats from the United Kingdom. You will note from my earlier reply that the Balai rules apply to movements into Ireland from *any* Member State of the EU and this also includes the UK.
> 
> On Your question regarding the period of post-import quarantine, the position is that quarantine would be required for a period of 4 months, but this period may reduced to 30 days provided the animal had remained since birth or at least 6 months before dispatch in a Balai-approved body, centre or institute of origin and had spent a 30-day period of pre-import isolation with no contact with other animals not of the same health status and where no cases of rabies have been reported in the previous 6 months.
> ...


I'm confused as to why there would be any rabies based import restrictions from the UK. The UK is rabies free and therefore there is no risk associated with the transmission of rabies, id seriously query this with them. If you import anything into the UK from another European rabies free country then you need to complete an RM01 rabies importation form. This is then assessed by AHVLA who have the power to grant a rabies quarantine waiver thus exempting them from the 4 months quarantine. 

Good luck with the zoos but don't get your hopes up, they will more than likely need all the space they've got for their own imports.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Zoos wont help out private keepers ,always got own bits coming in and wont take up one of there facilities in case something turns up

They will never give a private person a quarantine waiver normally this is from zoo to zoo ( balai to balai ) will always be the 4 months


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yea i messaged Fota Wildlife they used to do it for private keepers but dont anymore...
Dublin zoo said no .... 
and im guessing Tayto Park is gunna be the same...


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

there the only facility's in Ireland for Balai.... ! .......


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

O Zak Thanks ive question them about it but there so slow at replying prob wont get one until next week but no harm could be worth it ! especially from getting a serval from Uk - Ireland! Some hope ...... lol


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## Jayk17 (Aug 22, 2012)

Dublin zoo are going to let me know by mid-march if they could accommodate Quarantine :2thumb: Just to let ye guys know an update !


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