# Most deadliest spider?



## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

I was just wondering what is the most deadliest spider i heard the Sydney funnel web _*(Atrax robustus) *_was amongst the top? one recorded death was 15 minutes by these :eek4:


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

Kyle T's said:


> I was just wondering what is the most deadliest spider i heard the Sydney funnel web _*(Atrax robustus) *_was amongst the top? one recorded death was 15 minutes by these :eek4:


The deadliest spider is the one that bites you just before you kick the bucket. It's like comparing a shotgun to the chest, to a magnum to the head - at the end of the day, dead is dead.

Atrax venom consists of a cocktail of toxins which are especially effective against humans, however only the male proves a threat, and deaths are very rare.

Phoneutria sp. were until recently considered the most potentially dangerous, however, envenomation is said to occur in less than 1 in every 3 bites.

Of late, Sicarius sp. has started to be regarded as the most potentially harmful. Envenomation tests on rodents and such have proven absolutely devastating - including massive internal hemorrhaging, serious necrosis and tissue loss, and rapid organ failure. However, they are very secretive, and quite docile by nature. It would be very rare for a person to come into contact with one of these.


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## mattykyuss (Oct 12, 2009)

*bite*

i think it would be a phoneutria fera ,one big bite has venom that could kill 225 mice ,so i guess very potent


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## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

Holy :censor: lol :notworthy:


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## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

The Guiness Book Of Records and Wikipedia has is as Phoneutria Nigriventer, The Brazillian Wandering Spider...

While I was looking I found something bizarre, an American Site actually has a care sheet for these feckers!! Like yeah, I would really want one of these eight legged nut jobs in my house, Not !


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## Gomjaba (May 25, 2009)

Never get the "whats more dangerous" discussions .. no offence .. if it kills me it kills .. doesn't matter how long it takes .. dead is dead


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

David L said:


> The Guiness Book Of Records and Wikipedia has is as Phoneutria Nigriventer, The Brazillian Wandering Spider...
> 
> While I was looking I found something bizarre, an American Site actually has a care sheet for these feckers!! Like yeah, I would really want one of these eight legged nut jobs in my house, Not !


Many people keep Phoneutria as pets.

To be honest, I'd rather take a bite from a Phoneutria than a Sicarius. Most bites, even if envenomation occurs, are non fatal. If you were to be bitten by a Sicarius, you are likely to at least lose a limb, if not your life.


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## Gomjaba (May 25, 2009)

I also read that a lot of papers etc. give spiders the "most" part simply due to the amount of venom delivered compared to their body size ... Then whether it is deadly or not depends on how much they actually deliver in a bite ...


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

It's a bit of a pointless question, imo... as Dan points out above, it's all exceedingly circumstantial, and, of course, there exists anti-venin for Atrax spp. now, so these are considerably non-lethal if you live close to a hospital.


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

wasn't that six eyed sand spider meant to have more potent venom or was that a myth?


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## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

Nah.... It's the Daddy Long Legs... unfortunately it hasn't got any teeth to bite with!!!

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

I love that myth / urban legend... especially when you hear it from Ricky Gervais on his 'Live Animals' show.


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## The Wanderer (Sep 14, 2007)

Some pics of _sicarius

Google Image Result for http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1831/sicarius03kf3.jpg
_


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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

hmm.....

the old what's the worst debate...

I'd say for potency per milligram of venom probably Phoneutria sp

for related deaths Attrax sp

for sheer nastiness sicarrius sp / loxosceles sp

the sand spiders venom (Sicarrius) rots you, the wound looks like it is healing and then the scab falls off and the wound is actually worse underneath, bite usually equals some form of amputation, either of a limb or of tissue surrounding the bite area.
NICE!!


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## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

those people who say its pointless dont read or post then jeeze, i wanted to simply no is that 2 hard to ask, u are not abliged to answer ...:bash:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

exopet said:


> for sheer nastiness sicarrius sp / loxosceles sp
> 
> the sand spiders venom (Sicarrius) rots you, the wound looks like it is healing and then the scab falls off and the wound is actually worse underneath, bite usually equals some form of amputation, either of a limb or of tissue surrounding the bite area.
> NICE!!


what's disturbing is these are available in the trade and cheap.

I mean .:www.schaben-spinnen.de - Jörg Bernhardt :. Shop has 30 juvies of Loxosceles laeta for the equivalent of £18.28 at the moment. That spider has the reputation for having the worst bite of the genus(more venom injected).

also 10 _Sicarius hahni are £91, apparently a human bite hasn't properly been recorded, but rabbits don't fair well.
_


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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

I know, I can get these even cheaper!!!!

interesting, but not for me

(do not ask, just because I can doesn't mean I will)


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

I made the OH get rid of the sicarius, out of all the stuff we keep these freaked me out the most and i love our scorps and spids.

They were too fast, too unpredictable and really un-nerved me despite keeping them to DWA specifications (even tho they arent DWA at present).

Personally, i just dont like em :lol2:


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## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

David L said:


> Nah.... It's the Daddy Long Legs... unfortunately it hasn't got any teeth to bite with!!!
> 
> :lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> I love that myth / urban legend... especially when you hear it from Ricky Gervais on his 'Live Animals' show.


Ricky Gervais is an idiot he actually believed that by daddy long legs it meant the crain fly not the cellar spider,

many diff spiders have diff potency of venom but most of them are prolly only deadly if your allergic, like the black widow, what people leave out when they say the Sidney funnel web has killed 15 people is weather all 15 of those people were allergic to venom, 

many spider bite deaths usually occur when the bitten is too small or weak to fend off the venom or they don't get help in time, other than getting 1 averaged build and strength person per deadly spider and seeing who dies quickest the deadliest spider will always be one of those questions up in the air 

in the us the common bee is responsible for 53 deaths per year, mostly allergy cases


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

joeyboy said:


> what's disturbing is these are available in the trade and cheap.
> 
> I mean .:www.schaben-spinnen.de - Jörg Bernhardt :. Shop has 30 juvies of Loxosceles laeta for the equivalent of £18.28 at the moment. That spider has the reputation for having the worst bite of the genus(more venom injected).
> 
> also 10 _Sicarius hahni are £91, apparently a human bite hasn't properly been recorded, but rabbits don't fair well._


 
i've seen Sicarius hahni alot cheaper then that in Europe. they'll be DWA on the next round of updates to the list i reckon. and the fact theres no anti venom doesnt help.

would of thought there'd be more bite reports etc as they come from south africa


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

I was the first person in the UK to get a Sicarius terrosus eggsac. Fortunately, it was infertile. I would have liked to have gotten the first successful breeding, but most of the enquiries I got were from inexperienced keepers looking for a status symbol.



exopet said:


> ...the sand spiders venom (Sicarrius) rots you, the wound looks like it is healing and then the scab falls off and the wound is actually worse underneath, bite usually equals some form of amputation, either of a limb or of tissue surrounding the bite area.
> NICE!!


And that's just on the outside. Massive internal bleeding and organ failure are common place.



matto2k said:


> i've seen Sicarius hahni alot cheaper then that in Europe. they'll be DWA on the next round of updates to the list i reckon. and the fact theres no anti venom doesnt help.
> 
> would of thought there'd be more bite reports etc as they come from south africa


They spend the vast majority of their time hiding under the sand, so encounters with people food and people are rare. I find Sicarius absolutely fascinating spiders! Such peculiar habits. However, I have an email from DEFRA stating that there are currently no plans to amend the arachnid list on the DWA. If they are eventually added, it won't be any time soon.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Danhalen said:


> I was the first person in the UK to get a Sicarius terrosus eggsac. Fortunately, it was infertile. I would have liked to have gotten the first successful breeding, but most of the enquiries I got were from inexperienced keepers looking for a status symbol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so what spiders are actually DWA? I mean aren't all scorps in the Buthidae family DWA even though actually most aren't THAT bad. Yet these flesh rotting spiders aren't on it, even pokies don't have a nice bite and from some reports it sounds like some people have a bad reaction(major cramps).


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

joeyboy said:


> so what spiders are actually DWA? I mean aren't all scorps in the Buthidae family DWA even though actually most aren't THAT bad. Yet these flesh rotting spiders aren't on it, even pokies don't have a nice bite and from some reports it sounds like some people have a bad reaction(major cramps).


spiders on the list are: Brazilian wandering, sydney funnel web+relatives, brazilian wolf spider, (thought that was removed?) brown recluse (violin) and black widow+ all widow relatives. well thats what my county council said at any rate.. 

well the old classification of an animal being on the DWA was that it had to be able to cause more damage then a medium sized dog. which was then changed to include animals with special needs. as i dontthink theres mean many deaths or damage done by sloth's and capybara.... lol

Dan you are right they are fascinating spiders. i Beleive that there communal aswell? Their just to risky to keep unless you know what your doing which i'd guess alot of people don't. 

+ necrotic Venom scares the hell out of me

Necrosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

matto2k said:


> spiders on the list are: Brazilian wandering, sydney funnel web+relatives, brazilian wolf spider, (thought that was removed?) brown recluse (violin) and black widow+ all widow relatives. well thats what my county council said at any rate..


So are all recluse and wandering species banned or only those?

As I linked to above Loxosceles laeta Chilaen recluse, is meant to be worse then the brown recluse..


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

i looked on the eastcambs website (first one that came up on google and just happens to be where i live lol) from what i made out its only the brown recluse. but you'd have to read the exact wording to see if a chilean recluse is included aswell. also i think its only Phoneutria spp. that are meant as "wandering spider" as there are some non deadly wandering spiders in the hobby. 

i take it that the hobo spider is classed as a funnel web and banned or thats another big oversight on the DWA.


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

sorry my bad all loxosceles are on DWA


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

matto2k said:


> sorry my bad all loxosceles are on DWA


ah right, thought as much. I still say putting the whole Buthidae family on DWA is foolish, there's some really nice scorps, even desert ones which cvan be kept together reasonably well without cannibalism, but because they've all been labelled with the same "omg terrible venom!" it ruins it for keepers who want more variety. I don't doubt a bite from a large pokie beats out some of them for pain and cramps.


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

just before the last change to the list i had a Hemiscorpius lepturus on order which i had to cancel as £100 for a year for a scorp is a bit much. the venom is just as bad as the recluse but much easier to keep and they've only been on the DWA since 2007 lol 

thats the reason i sold all my scorps i wanted to move on with the hobby and get some new and different species but you cant as all the good looking ones are bleeding DWA.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

matto2k said:


> just before the last change to the list i had a Hemiscorpius lepturus on order which i had to cancel as £100 for a year for a scorp is a bit much. the venom is just as bad as the recluse but much easier to keep and they've only been on the DWA since 2007 lol
> 
> thats the reason i sold all my scorps i wanted to move on with the hobby and get some new and different species but you cant as all the good looking ones are bleeding DWA.


lol should have kept the one scorp...just say it's....a maurus.:lol2:

Oh but rather you then me...


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## matto2k (Nov 30, 2006)

joeyboy said:


> lol should have kept the one scorp...just say it's....a maurus.:lol2:
> 
> Oh but rather you then me...
> 
> image


nice picture venoms pretty potent aint it... i'd keep any deadly scorpion as there ability to climb vertical glass makes them really easy to keep but i wouldnt touch a DWA spider with a 10ft barge pole!!


reason i didnt get it was something me and the person who was importing it for me came to a decision on. so to keep me happy he sold me a S.Subspines for a fiver lol


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

David L said:


> Nah.... It's the Daddy Long Legs... unfortunately it hasn't got any teeth to bite with!!!
> 
> :lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> I love that myth / urban legend... especially when you hear it from Ricky Gervais on his 'Live Animals' show.


It's a particularly stupid urban legend as they _do_ have fangs capable of piercing human flesh, but their venom is very weak, even on the insects on which they feed.



Gemificus said:


> Ricky Gervais is an idiot he actually believed that by daddy long legs it meant the crain fly not the cellar spider,
> 
> many diff spiders have diff potency of venom but most of them are prolly only deadly if your allergic, like the black widow, what people leave out when they say the Sidney funnel web has killed 15 people is weather all 15 of those people were allergic to venom,
> 
> ...


Bee sting allergies and spiderbite allergies are very different. Nowadays, yes, most spider bite deaths (Atrax etc) are from people who are allergic, simply because the reaction is much faster and they usually cannot reach treatment in due time. Technically, the spider is still fatal to humans over a longer time, but we can usually give medical aid to the victim in that timespan.

Doesn't make the venom any less toxic, and I assume the OP wasn't talking about susceptibility in the original post, but venom toxicity. Toxicity is a quantitative value (LP50) whereas susceptibility is qualitative and not so easily comparable. Yes, there are some people to whom being stung by a bee is very dangerous and potentially fatal, but you're not likely to hear of people referring to honeybees as "one of the worlds deadliest insects" are you?

No, the question here is in regards to toxicity, and fatal toxicity at that, which I think rules out Sicaria as it's generally non-lethal, just very devastating, leaving Atrax sp. or the BWS vying for the top-spot.


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> It's a bit of a pointless question, imo... as Dan points out above, it's all exceedingly circumstantial, and, of course, there exists anti-venin for Atrax spp. now, so these are considerably non-lethal if you live close to a hospital.


 
not a pointless question, what if you go out in the forrest for a trip, no hospitals, no people, just you and your little spidey friends.

To say this question cant be answered isnt true as all venom is different, and alot of places are short of anti-venom for alot of species. So what would kill you the fastest without anti-venom would be the deadliest in my opinion (maybe attacks might be rare but the question can still be answered)


: victory:


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

ph0bia said:


> No, the question here is in regards to toxicity, and fatal toxicity at that, which I think rules out *Sicaria* as it's generally non-lethal, just very devastating, leaving Atrax sp. or the BWS vying for the top-spot.


Seing as there are no "official" bite reports of sicarius sp., I personally would not rule it out. Unofficial reports (for what they are worth) record a 50% fatality, and 100% morbidity rate. The venom in Sicarius is *spectacularly* effective at destroying organic cells - so much so, it's even being used in research for cancer treatments.

The results on rabbit testing yielded increased permiability of vessels around the bite area, excessive bleeding in some organs, a dramatic drop in platelets, and elevated fibrinogen levels (a clotting agent). 

Not only is it necrotic, it can potentially cause massive internal hemorrhaging, and unlike loxocelles, haemolytic anaemia doesn't occur. So more red blood cells are produced to replaced the dead and damaged ones whilst they are still circulating in the blood stream. Now add this to the weakened arteries, and increased clotting agents, and you've a recipe for spreading necrosis, kidney damage, stroke, aneurysm, heart attack...

Real nasty stuff.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

matto2k said:


> reason i didnt get it was something me and the person who was importing it for me came to a decision on. so to keep me happy he sold me a S.Subspines for a fiver lol


oh right you were getting it from Europe? It's awkward as their pricelists will randomly have DWA in since there's no EU version.


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

ph0bia said:


> It's a particularly stupid urban legend as they _do_ have fangs capable of piercing human flesh, but their venom is very weak, even on the insects on which they feed.
> .


It must be pretty powerful though to be able to take down a huge tegenaria! Unless they are particularly sensitive to the venom?


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## mikemike118 (Aug 15, 2009)

*possibly*

i think there no specific deadly ones, some people could die just from a G.Rosea bite, so i would say that all tarantula's can be deadly if your allergic to there venom....

but i must say that being allergic to mild tarantula bites are quite rare...


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

mikemike118 said:


> i think there no specific deadly ones, some people could die just from a G.Rosea bite, so i would say that all tarantula's can be deadly if your allergic to there venom....
> 
> but i must say that being allergic to mild tarantula bites are quite rare...


It would be *spectacularly* rare for a person to have a direct allergic reaction to a tarantula bite due to the makeup of the venom.


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

mythicdawn07 said:


> not a pointless question, what if you go out in the forrest for a trip, no hospitals, no people, just you and your little spidey friends.


Then you'd want to know which ones are dangerous at all, rather than "which is worst?".


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## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

well those who answered thank you, those who thought it was pointless well you didnt have to read or reply so in future if think a question is pointless dont read it or reply


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Kyle T's said:


> well those who answered thank you, those who thought it was pointless well you didnt have to read or reply so in future if think a question is pointless dont read it or reply


Actually, the replies were pointing out why it's a pointless question:

There is no definitive answer. It's all circumstantial; where you were bitten, if you receive care, how old you are, if you're susceptible (allergic) or have other medical conditions that may react badly with it, how much venom was actually injected... It's possible to get a good answer for the question "How dangerous is this species?" or "Which species kills most humans each year?" (though even that one's fraught with difficulty), but the original question has no solid answer.

...like pretty much everything about spiders


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