# M&C mammals and Simons rodents



## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

hi, can anyone tell me what these to companies are like. i dont want to be told hear say e.g my friend said this. i only want to hear experiances from people who have dealt with them

thank you


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Are you just going to keep asking until someone tells you that they're great then?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

no. i have only been told about simons rodents, mainly good things. i have never heard about M&C mammals


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Simons rodents is located where i live. They supply a few of the local shops with live and dead stuff. Never heard a bad word until they were recommended to me and when i phoned they told me they don't supply joe public which was odd at the time because they did.

Confused much???


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

no, they will only supply shops


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I've said a couple of times - I've had 4 or 5 rats from there, not one of them was long lived or what I'd call healthy. One died at 9 weeks old.

Take your chances if you want, but I wouldn't risk it. Rodent farms are not the place to get rats from.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> no. i have only been told about simons rodents, mainly good things. i have never heard about M&C mammals


Simon's rodents bred the rats I rescued from the petshop, they were already pregnant, very ill and parasite riddled, and that's how they arrived there. They are a rodent farm, so cram animals into small cages and don't handle them (making them more prone to poor temperaments and stress related disease) - nor do they seperate their rats appropriately, as my rats proved. All of the babies born to the pregnant doe had inherited health problems including heart defects, eye problems etc, all died young apart from one. 

I wouldn't buy an animal from them if they paid ME, their animals appear regularly as rehomes here and always have health and temperament problems. They cost a packet too if money is an issue, the vet bills were enormous.

If you want to get a well raised, healthy animal, you go to a good breeder. If you want to save one with a sob story, go to the rescues that clean up after rodent farms rather than paying for them to continue.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

pets at home get from simons rodents... the hamsters ive had from [email protected] have had wet tail, severe issues with temperment and dropped dead young. the breeder hamsters i had and bred myself made two plus so take that as you will


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I agree with Vonnie!

If you buy cheap chicken from the supermarket, which was reared in a vastly overcrowded shed with no natural light & chicken sh*t for substrate, you'd expect to get crap quality meat. If you buy cheap rodents from places that mass-produce them indiscriminately as cheaply as possible, you'd expect......blah blah blah........


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Must also point out I ordered a rat via the pet shop (naive, yes, stupid, yes), and for a double rex dumbo I paid £22.

From a (good) breeder, he would have been £10-15, and in better health, better size, better temperament.

So ethics aside, it makes good maths to go to a breeder or rescue, and not a rodent farm or mass breeder.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

i have a pets at home rat along with 2 rescues. sasha (the p at h rat) has never been freindly, despite my best efforts. she dosent bite or anything like that, but being handled is not an enjoyable experience for her, she is also extreamly timid (which is a vast step up from the 'terrified of everything' attitude she came with) and smaller than the other 2 girls but she is a stunning siameese dumbo (which im guessing was the whole point of her breeding). the other 2 girls where born in a rescue and as such where well handled, well fed and came vet checked. both are unbelieveably freindly, affectionate and dont know the meaning of fear. they also have some rex breeding along the way as some of the hair on there backs sticks up like a little mini afro so they look permenantly scruffy so are in no way as glamerous as sasha :lol2:

im not saying judge a whole company based on my one (bad) experience of them, but from a personal point i wouldnt knowingly buy an animal that had come from there again.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i cant get all the animals i want to sell from breeders. i cant sell resuced animals in a pet shop. the only way i can make this work is if i can get the animals i want to sell cheap enough for me to make a profit once sold. ok simons rodents are expencive but some of there animals are cheap. does anyone know anything about M&C mammals?


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

TBH you should consider really not looking to make a profit on the animals, not that it is ethically incorrect, what I mean is it is a business model most large companies have turned away from as it is actually less profitable.

Your profit will come from selling the Cage, the toys, the cleaning products, the vitamin drops etc etc, then selling on going the substrate, the food etc etc etc buy *good* animals at a price you can sell them for and long term you should profit more.

BTW I was under the impression Essex Breeders still held the contract to supply all PAH stores. Have they been taken over?


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## jeni-arthurmoe (Sep 22, 2008)

hey, we only used simons rodents to get food from the doncaster show and they were great but then switch to monkton nutrition for delivering and weve had no problems at all! .. they even came during the bad weather snow etc :2thumb:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Why not take an ethical stand and not sell pets, just pet products? Many pet shops make this work. You could have a list of pet clubs and breeders instead, meaning people wont be about to make impulse purchases, but will also appreciate the advice and keep coming back for their pet care needs...


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

because my shop will not succeed like that. i am trying to be diffrent and out of all the pet shops in a 10 mile radius only 1 sells pets and that is [email protected]. to succeed i will be selling a bit of everything pet wise and what i cant keep in the shop i will be able to order in. im not looking to make a big profit but i must make a profit for the shop to work


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Kare said:


> TBH you should consider really not looking to make a profit on the animals, not that it is ethically incorrect, what I mean is it is a business model most large companies have turned away from as it is actually less profitable.
> 
> Your profit will come from selling the Cage, the toys, the cleaning products, the vitamin drops etc etc, then selling on going the substrate, the food etc etc etc buy *good* animals at a price you can sell them for and long term you should profit more.
> 
> BTW I was under the impression Essex Breeders still held the contract to supply all PAH stores. Have they been taken over?


the [email protected] stores around here the rodents are from simons and the reps are from monkfield.
if you ask the dim staff they`ll openly tell you.

i`ve had syrian hamsters from essex breeders many times, and have never had a health, temperament or wet tail problems from them.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

They're still rodent farms with appalling animal care standards though. TBH there are a lot of people who wont buy from pet shops who stock rodent farmed animals. Why not breed your own? That way you can give them better care than these rodent farms.

There is a growing trend to visit good breeders and rescues nowadays, at some point your business will need to recognise that and flow with it.

Otherwise you're nothing new and refreshing. You dont need to sell pets to succeed. Our most popular pet shop in town is a market stall that doesn't sell animals, just supplies - and I have much more respect for them than the other market stall who do supply pets. Plus the one that sells pets has higher prices, presumably to cover caring for them.

And I say that in the loosest sense of the word, because they keep their animals in tiny tanks, and rarely clean out their reptiles (one snake had a shed in with it for weeks!).


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

this is true, the most sucessful shop around here does not sell pets at all, dosnt believe in it.
they think you should buy from a breeder and see the parents and the way the animal has been reared.

they have a book of breeders and a notice board.

surely it`d be cheaper for you to buy in from small hobby breeders though?
simons prices are a bit steep imo.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i know they are steep, this is why i was also asking about M&C mammals. i would like to breed my own and only buy from breeders but where am i ment to get things like sugar gliders, SFS, APH and STO cheap enough for me to buy more than needed so that i can sell some and breed from some. i can get rabbits, hamsters, mice ect from breeders but many of the animals i want to sell i can get at the right price. selling exotics as well as other pets is the only way my shop will succeed, as this is making my shop stand out from the rest. 

all my enclosures will be larger than normal. e.g 4x sugar gliders will be in an enclosure 6 foot tall, 4 foot wide and 3 foot deep, for rabbits and guinea pigs i will be using rabbit hutches as enclosures, these will be 3ftx2ftx2ft and will only contain a max of 2 small breed rabbits or 3 guinea pigs. all other animals will be in ventilated vivs and these will also be larger than the animals need, e.g 3ftx2ftx2ft viv will only hold 4 rats or 8 mice or 1 STO or 1 APH


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> . Why not breed your own? That way you can give them better care than these rodent farms.


The problem with the owner of a shop breeding their own animals is having the time to do it. The owner of the store I used to work in was asked by customers all the time "Why don't you breed your own animals?"
To which he would always reply "Partly because it's not fair to make an animal breed and breed without having it's own life, and in a pet shop there is no room for it to have it's own life. Also, what happens when the rabbit for example gets older and stops breeding. Can't just re-home her then, and keeping her would get in the way of new breeders."

If you're busy running a shop, and trying to make a profit there is very little time for your own pets.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> for rabbits and guinea pigs i will be using rabbit hutches as enclosures, these will be 3ftx2ftx2ft and will only contain a max of 2 small breed rabbits or 3 guinea pigs.


From having kept rabbits, that doesn't sound very big... even the local Pets at Home has larger enclosures for their rabbits (more like 4X8 floor space).


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i think it is a nice size for 2 say mini lops


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

In this day and age, selling animals in petshops is frowned upon by most good animal keepers. The only animal sales you will get will be from people who haven't researched their pets properly (because if they had they wouldn't buy from petshops, especially those who source animals from godawful rodent farms like Simons). You will get returns of older, harder to home, ill and bitey animals, because Simons and other rodent farms dont handle their animals enough, and leave animals to get pregnant as babies. The animals will be bred without their health and temperament in mind, so you will get plenty dropping dead in new homes or growing tumours or harbouring dangerous viruses. You will get complaints and a bad reputation because you went the cheap way instead of thinking out a proper business plan with your customers satisfaction, business ethics and future in mind. If you're very unlucky some of the people who get stung will get in touch with the RSPCA and/or the council who licence you. To be honest your plan doesn't seem to have had much thought to it? I can see you don't really care about the ethics surrounding the animals because you think those who do are perhaps being a bit fluffy or whatever, but it's your business too, you will get a really bad rep if you just go with the money, and you will regret using the crappy rodent farms to sell crappy pets to crappy owners who will just complain when they drop ill or dead babies, or get ill, die or bite. 

Why not have a shop display of a very small amount of superbly kept animals and a list of species/breed clubs for people to contact if they want their own? You'd get a lot more respect as a business from decent animal owners. You wouldn't have the cost of a shop full of ill animals to care for and treat. You would have a better reputation.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i think it is a nice size for 2 say mini lops


It's different when they've got an extra run in a garden to get exercise, but that size doesn't allow them to move around properly as an only enclosure and they tend to be in them for weeks (rabbits don't sell as well as people think as they are easy to get cheap or free elsewhere).


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

no, sorry i am not doing that. i do care for the animals, one of the reasons i am doing this shop is so i can have these animals, if i was to do what everyone is saying then my shop will fail in the first 6 months and i cant afford that. i am not doing it for the money, i do care about these animals but this is business, i need to make money to succeed and keep a roof over my head, i need something that is going to draw in the customers. i would love to know why it is such a bad idea for me to sell animals in my shop my shops like new world exotics are fine. and by the way M&C mammals is not a rodent farm and as i have said in another thread IF SIMONS RODENTS IS SO BAD WHY ARE THEY STILL ALLOWED TO TRADE, WHY HAS NO ONE REPORTED THEM TO THE RSPCA OR PET CARE TRUST


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Darklas said:


> The problem with the owner of a shop breeding their own animals is having the time to do it. The owner of the store I used to work in was asked by customers all the time "Why don't you breed your own animals?"
> To which he would always reply "Partly because it's not fair to make an animal breed and breed without having it's own life, and in a pet shop there is no room for it to have it's own life. Also, what happens when the rabbit for example gets older and stops breeding. Can't just re-home her then, and keeping her would get in the way of new breeders."
> 
> If you're busy running a shop, and trying to make a profit there is very little time for your own pets.


If the owner doesn't have time to raise and handle his own animals, he doesn't have time to raise and handle the ones he gets from the rodent farms - and he won't be able to sell the animals as they come in. They will need quarantining, and they will be fairly wild and bitey, so he will have to put a month or so into their handling before they can be sold, if he cares what his customers think about him. He will find he won't be able to offer a returns policy on them as it will be common for them to get ill and drop dead or become bitey, they're not healthy animals either. He might want to ask local rescues what *they* think of being landed with the animals he sells, as a good proportion will end up there.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have never, ever,ever, ever brought a tame animal from a pet shop. can i just ask, KATHYM have you ever owned or worked in a pet shop before?


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> no, sorry i am not doing that. i do care for the animals, one of the reasons i am doing this shop is so i can have these animals, if i was to do what everyone is saying then my shop will fail in the first 6 months and i cant afford that. i am not doing it for the money, i do care about these animals but this is business, i need to make money to succeed and keep a roof over my head, i need something that is going to draw in the customers. i would love to know why it is such a bad idea for me to sell animals in my shop my shops like new world exotics are fine. and by the way M&C mammals is not a rodent farm and as i have said in another thread IF SIMONS RODENTS IS SO BAD WHY ARE THEY STILL ALLOWED TO TRADE, WHY HAS NO ONE REPORTED THEM TO THE RSPCA OR PET CARE TRUST


You will fail. If you use people like that, you will get a bad reputation and you will fail. You don't seem to care about your customers or the animals or you would listen to people with far more experience of these places. Most of the animals I rescue come from Simons or other rodent farms like them - they are allowed to continue because they pay money to be allowed to continue, just like other crappy breeding facilities - do you think your local council knows anything about proper breeding and care? Your business has no chance of succeeding when you won't open your eyes and see that proper care and decent animals are the only way your business will survive - go and ask how many petshops go under with a reputation for selling unhealthy and bitey animals. If you cared about the animals you'd have already changed your mind, but if you care about your business you'd do well to take notice and listen to what people are saying - it's not just for the animals' good, it's bad business to sell shite animals to shite owners.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have never, ever,ever, ever brought a tame animal from a pet shop. can i just ask, KATHYM have you ever owned or worked in a pet shop before?


I wouldn't work in a petshop that sells animals, but I have over 15 years of experience of rescuing animals sold by them. I used to be a vet nurse and currently foster and rescue several species (and breed a show line of rats for health and temperament). I also consult with a local petshop on their small animal care, as they valued their business and customers enough to want to think about how the ethics affects their income!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, so you have never worked in a pet shop, so you dont understand just how much work goes into it. 
a normal day (in the shop i WILL be opening)
-get to shop at 7.30am
-change all substrate
-give all animals fresh water
-feed all animals
-open at 9.30am
-handle each animal for approx 10 mins during the day as well as serve customers, order stock ect.
-close at 4.30pm
-stock shevles ready for next day
-cash up
-sweep, mop ect so shop is clean for next day
-go home at 6-6.30pm
(this will happen monday-saturday)
-sunday DAY OFF -not, this is the day for complete clean out of all cages where everything is washed and cleaned. ready for the new week, where every animal will only have substrate, food and water changed daily


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> ok, so you have never worked in a pet shop, so you dont understand just how much work goes into it.
> a normal day (in the shop i WILL be opening)
> -get to shop at 7.30am
> -change all substrate
> ...


Why would I not know how much work goes into it? If you're complaining about how you won't have time to raise animals that would be replacing the animals in your list above? If you don't have time to raise a litter, you don't have anywhere near enough time to hand tame someone elses that has not been handled properly. You will need 2-3 hours of intensive handling a DAY on each rat lol. I appreciate you think I have no clue, but you don't seem to appreciate that I have more experience with dealing with the fallout of crap petshops selling crap animals from rodent farms than you. If you don't care about the fallout your business will go down the pan - you don't have to be fluffy to see noone will want you there if you sell bitey animals with health problems. If you want to sell bitey animals with health problems to people who haven't researched their animals properly and buy on a whim, you go for it, it'll last 6 months tops.

PS: Preaching to someone with up to 40 rescue animals to deal with daily (and recovering from surgery and a full time mother and student) is a bit of a cheek too. You think that's hard work, come and help me deal with the fallout from my local shops. You might appreciate us more!


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

I have nothing good to say about Simons rodents at all. I have used him a number of times as have a company I use to work with and a number of local shop to me have had issues. I won't post the problems but can pm. There are better suppliers out there, peregrine, Monkfields, eurorep, and others. I would never recomend him to anyone or buy from him again! In fact I believe he still owes me some money!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

it will last alot longer than that. i put this thread up asking about these 2 companies and as such i have only heard about 1 and so the other must be ok. NO ONE in a pet shop has time to handle a rat for 3 hours constant not where there is alot of other stuff to be done. 

how is a shop ment to have the space to breed the aniamls that they sell, i live in a small 2 bed flat, where i am i ment to keep all these animals for breeding my shop stock. 

now once again i was only asking about 2 companies and not to have my shop run into the ground, so from now on please stick to the thread topic and not bring my shop into this. thank you 

P.S you can not pay the RSPCA to leave you alone. they will follow up on a complaint and if THEY feel there is nothing wrong then you will be left alone, IF they feel there is a problem then you will be shut down. SIMPLES


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

animalstorey said:


> I have nothing good to say about Simons rodents at all. I have used him a number of times as have a company I use to work with and a number of local shop to me have had issues. I won't post the problems but can pm. There are better suppliers out there, peregrine, Monkfields, eurorep, and others.


 
THANK YOU a PM would be great, could you also PM me the names of the other suppliers, thank you so much


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## kirksandallchinchillas (Sep 29, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> ok, so you have never worked in a pet shop, so you dont understand just how much work goes into it.
> a normal day (in the shop i WILL be opening)
> -get to shop at 7.30am
> -change all substrate
> ...



That's a long day when you have a young family. 

Your shop is only opening for 7 hours per day (and missing out on the vital passing trade a people are returning from work), but you will be out of the house for around 11 hours - you will need a good turnaround to give yourself even the minimum wage


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> it will last alot longer than that. i put this thread up asking about these 2 companies and as such i have only heard about 1 and so the other must be ok. NO ONE in a pet shop has time to handle a rat for 3 hours constant not where there is alot of other stuff to be done.
> 
> how is a shop ment to have the space to breed the aniamls that they sell, i live in a small 2 bed flat, where i am i ment to keep all these animals for breeding my shop stock.
> 
> ...



Im sorry but do you have any idea just how ......stupid.....you sound? you are putting profit above animal care and yes, i have worked in a pet shop and yes, i understand how business works! You will NOT be able to make a decent profit on pets because you cant predict how long they will be in the shop for before they sell. You will need to recoup the cost of the housing for the animals and the food and cage accessories etc. ANYBODY that has got a clue about the pet trade knows 100% that money is made by the return business from the selling of a cage ( whether its with an animal or not).

Its the people that return every week to buy a bag of hamster food or dog food ( that is almost ALL profit!) that make the money in the pet trade. I think you need to reconsider entering this field, you have no idea and are already on the path of a "bad " petshop owner. 

In short, you need to rethink. If you have the mental cappacity to do so........or maybe you are planning to make your millions from selling crap quality, half dead rats to the unsuspecting public.:lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

this is why my shop must succeed. as long as it turnsover enough to cover all business rates, shop rent, licences, ect. and all my flat rents, bills food ect. i will be happy. i dont mind if there is nothing left over after that. just as long as my bills are covered, that all i care about


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> it will last alot longer than that. i put this thread up asking about these 2 companies and as such i have only heard about 1 and so the other must be ok.


What silly logic lol - I personally can't trace every rodent farm rat back to its supplier, but if they're bred in farms, there isn't a single one that breeds for health and temperament, is there? In fact, here's a challenge for you. You say that anyone not mentioned here is a good rodent farm. Go to a farm and come back with the evidence. Show me a rodent farm where rats are kept in appropriate enclosures to their needs to climb and socialise. Show me one that knows the lineage for each litter and shows you how they picked parents to complement each others health and temperament qualities. Show me one that seperates males from females at 4.5 weeks. Show me one where the babies are handled daily for appropriate times from birth. They don't exist. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they don't give a monkeys - they breed quickly and cheaply and leave litters together so girls are pregnant and produce quickly. 



> NO ONE in a pet shop has time to handle a rat for 3 hours constant not where there is alot of other stuff to be done.


Even more reason not to buy rats that will need intensive handling then, such as those bred in rodent farms en masse and unhandled til they come to you! Deary me. 



> how is a shop ment to have the space to breed the aniamls that they sell, i live in a small 2 bed flat, where i am i ment to keep all these animals for breeding my shop stock.


This is a more genuine issue - you would do well to reconsider stocking animals then. You should only need one litter at a time for your shop, but you've said you wouldn't have time to care for these animals, and that time will be much greater with animals that need greater input (ie. those not handled from birth). If you cannot handle unhandled ones, and cannot breed your own, I would be trying to think outside the box. Neither option seems to be right for your business. No rodent farm handles their animals properly, it can't be done en masse in the thousands per day. 



> now once again i was only asking about 2 companies and not to have my shop run into the ground, so from now on please stick to the thread topic and not bring my shop into this. thank you


If I was trying to run you into the ground, do you think I would give you advice on how to prevent this happening? If you're this touchy about help that you don't want to hear, you are not going to do very well. 



> P.S you can not pay the RSPCA to leave you alone. they will follow up on a complaint and if THEY feel there is nothing wrong then you will be left alone, IF they feel there is a problem then you will be shut down. SIMPLES


You have clearly not done your research. Petshops and breeding facilities are inspected and licenced by the local councils (not the RSPCA - not sure how you came to this conclusion if you've done your research), the RSPCA have no legal grounding to stop rodent farms, or they would have by now. If you look at RSPCA guidelines for animal enclosures and daily care, do you seriously think rodent farms would "pass"? Just because someone is powerless to stop bad practices (they are a charity remember, not a public service) doesn't make those practices good. If you think rodent farms are how to raise animals best, you have no clue about animals lol. Why run a petshop when you don't even care enough to learn?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

[ 


fantapants said:


> Im sorry but do you have any idea just how ......stupid.....you sound? you are putting profit above animal care and yes, i have worked in a pet shop and yes, i understand how business works! You will NOT be able to make a decent profit on pets because you cant predict how long they will be in the shop for before they sell. You will need to recoup the cost of the housing for the animals and the food and cage accessories etc. ANYBODY that has got a clue about the pet trade knows 100% that money is made by the return business from the selling of a cage ( whether its with an animal or not).
> 
> Its the people that return every week to buy a bag of hamster food or dog food ( that is almost ALL profit!) that make the money in the pet trade. I think you need to reconsider entering this field, you have no idea and are already on the path of a "bad " petshop owner.
> 
> In short, you need to rethink. If you have the mental cappacity to do so........or maybe you are planning to make your millions from selling crap quality, half dead rats to the unsuspecting public.:lol2:


you know what :censor: off, i cant be bothered, if you dont want to read what i have said then dont, 2 pets shops have failed in my town because 1 they did not sell animals and people couldnt get to the places that did, 2 they did not sell the supplies for the animals that are in this town. i have done reaserch, i have been walking around my town with a questionaire asking people what it is they want from a pet shop and i am now going on what they have told me


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

fantapants said:


> Im sorry but do you have any idea just how ......stupid.....you sound? you are putting profit above animal care and yes, i have worked in a pet shop and yes, i understand how business works! You will NOT be able to make a decent profit on pets because you cant predict how long they will be in the shop for before they sell. You will need to recoup the cost of the housing for the animals and the food and cage accessories etc. ANYBODY that has got a clue about the pet trade knows 100% that money is made by the return business from the selling of a cage ( whether its with an animal or not).
> 
> Its the people that return every week to buy a bag of hamster food or dog food ( that is almost ALL profit!) that make the money in the pet trade. I think you need to reconsider entering this field, you have no idea and are already on the path of a "bad " petshop owner.
> 
> In short, you need to rethink. If you have the mental cappacity to do so........or maybe you are planning to make your millions from selling crap quality, half dead rats to the unsuspecting public.:lol2:


Your post is far more succinct and to the point than my waffles. I think your words are wasted on this one as they only want to hear what supports their rosetinted ideal, and haven't done their research. TBH I think it's pointless continuing as they will not make it to opening without a lot more knowledge than they have, so I don't think anyone needs worry at this point.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> [
> 
> 
> you know what :censor: off, i cant be bothered, if you dont want to read what i have said then dont, 2 pets shops have failed in my town because 1 they did not sell animals and people couldnt get to the places that did, 2 they did not sell the supplies for the animals that are in this town. i have done reaserch, i have been walking around my town with a questionaire asking people what it is they want from a pet shop and i am now going on what they have told me


Do you have ANY business training or experience? I don't and even I can see you haven't researched anywhere near enough if you don't even know what licencing your business would be subject to. It might be better for you just to get a job at PAH so you can leave the big decisions to someone who knows the business. I wouldn't dare open such a complicated business without even knowing the basics.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> What silly logic lol - I personally can't trace every rodent farm rat back to its supplier, but if they're bred in farms, there isn't a single one that breeds for health and temperament, is there? In fact, here's a challenge for you. You say that anyone not mentioned here is a good rodent farm. Go to a farm and come back with the evidence. Show me a rodent farm where rats are kept in appropriate enclosures to their needs to climb and socialise. Show me one that knows the lineage for each litter and shows you how they picked parents to complement each others health and temperament qualities. Show me one that seperates males from females at 4.5 weeks. Show me one where the babies are handled daily for appropriate times from birth. They don't exist. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they don't give a monkeys - they breed quickly and cheaply and leave litters together so girls are pregnant and produce quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
no pet shop has the room to breed over 10 diffrent species of animal at once

M&C mammals are NOT A RODENT FARM they import exotics that they have chosen from overseas breeders.

what i was saying about the RSPCA is that if SR are so bad then why has NO-ONE called them and had SR shut down. if they are as bad as you say then the RSPCA will shut them down


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Seriously, if you think the RSPCA have any legal power over rodent farming businesses, you have no clue what you're getting into. You haven't done your homework. It is a shame as a good pet supplies business is hard to find, but as long as you are ignorant to even the most basic laws surrounding your plans, you're fecked m'dear lol. :lol2:

Perhaps you would be better off going and reading more into what running a pet business would entail, perhaps taking a business course, getting some experience, learning what legalaties will surround it, then come back. I can't understand why you would be asking for recommendations for suppliers when you don't have even the basic knowledge of the business side of it to open up? You're working backwards.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> Do you have ANY business training or experience? I don't and even I can see you haven't researched anywhere near enough if you don't even know what licencing your business would be subject to. It might be better for you just to get a job at PAH so you can leave the big decisions to someone who knows the business. I wouldn't dare open such a complicated business without even knowing the basics.


the licences i need are a petshop licensce (to sell animals, but i can keep them in the shop without one, i just wont be aloud to sell any)
and a public preformance licence for me to be able to listen to a radio

i have done alot of reaserch on this, if you dont want to belive me then :censor: off. i know what i have and havent done ok. and i still have a couple of months to get everything in line as i will not be opening until may


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> Seriously, if you think the RSPCA have any legal power over rodent farming businesses, you have no clue what you're getting into. You haven't done your homework. It is a shame as a good pet supplies business is hard to find, but as long as you are ignorant to even the most basic laws surrounding your plans, you're fecked m'dear lol. :lol2:
> 
> Perhaps you would be better off going and reading more into what running a pet business would entail, perhaps taking a business course, getting some experience, learning what legalaties will surround it, then come back. I can't understand why you would be asking for recommendations for suppliers when you don't have even the basic knowledge of the business side of it to open up? You're working backwards.


BASIC LAWS, BASIC LAWS all i have done for the last 3 months is check the f:censor:ing laws, so that i know exactly what needs doing, what licenses i need, how to get them, what checks i need, who i can have work for me and how much to pay them.

i have done everything


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> what i was saying about the RSPCA is that if SR are so bad then why has NO-ONE called them and had SR shut down. if they are as bad as you say then the RSPCA will shut them down


Coming back to this prize piece of ignorance - could you tell me more about the psychic powers that allowed you to determine that "NO-ONE" has ever rung the RSPCA or councils about SR? I know many people who have campaigned against these rodent farms. 

A couple of your points have relied on this false logic you employ, saying that if nobody reports on this thread that someone is bad, that means they're definitely good. I wouldn't be surprised, from a psychological viewpoint, if we were dealing with a young child here. This would definitely change my advice to you, so if you're young as your posts suggests, speak up and we might be able to offer you some guidance.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Dont get to worked up guys LOL 
its not like this shop is ever gonna open.
No one is gonna give her £23.500 grant without her having a penny to her name LOL 
Its all a big dream that will never happen and certainly never succeed.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> BASIC LAWS, BASIC LAWS all i have done for the last 3 months is check the f:censor:ing laws, so that i know exactly what needs doing, what licenses i need, how to get them, what checks i need, who i can have work for me and how much to pay them.
> 
> i have done everything


Listen chucky, we're only going on what you post, and when you say the RSPCA are in charge of shutting down crap petshops, that says otherwise, ok? People can only go on what you're saying, and what you're saying seems to be very wrong. Don't blame anyone else for it lol!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> the licences i need are a petshop licensce (to sell animals, but i can keep them in the shop without one, i just wont be aloud to sell any)
> and a public preformance licence for me to be able to listen to a radio
> 
> i have done alot of reaserch on this, if you dont want to belive me then :censor: off. i know what i have and havent done ok. and i still have a couple of months to get everything in line as i will not be opening until may


LOL if you manage to get a shop, kit it out, and get it inspected and passed for May, I would be very surprised!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think what she meant was "thanks for the advice, I shall think about it carefully and make informed choices about what to do - clearly I need more experience to run a shop and will try and educate myself further". LOL.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> [
> 
> 
> you know what :censor: off, i cant be bothered, if you dont want to read what i have said then dont, 2 pets shops have failed in my town because 1 they did not sell animals and people couldnt get to the places that did, 2 they did not sell the supplies for the animals that are in this town. i have done reaserch, i have been walking around my town with a questionaire asking people what it is they want from a pet shop and i am now going on what they have told me


*Your children must have been bloody freezing walking around while you did your 'questionare' poor things.*
*How many people laughed and said they got their stuff from a petshop that they had used for years? They won't just stop buying there and come to you you know. As most pets are dogs, cats and small furries I doubt that a petshop failed because they did not stock supplies for those pets!*
*More likely the economic situation has made them find a cheaper alternative.*




rosanna123 said:


> BASIC LAWS, BASIC LAWS all i have done for the last 3 months is check the f:censor:ing laws, so that i know exactly what needs doing, what licenses i need, how to get them, what checks i need, who i can have work for me and how much to pay them.
> 
> i have done everything


*It's not 3 months since you were only going to do a website for breeding rodents and holiday care so where does the 3 month research come in?*
*You were asking about species and care of those species less than 3 months ago.....*



Shadowz said:


> Dont get to worked up guys LOL
> its not like this shop is ever gonna open.
> No one is gonna give her £23.500 grant without her having a penny to her name LOL
> Its all a big dream that will never happen and certainly never succeed.


*I said this on one of her other threads. I also pm'd her trying to give some basic advice just about breeding rodents in general but it's useless. *
*As you say it's not going to happen in the 'forseeable' future. Unless of course Roseanna grows up a bit very quickly.*
*Anyway is there an age limit to when they will give grants to open your own business?*


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

it ment **** all like that, it ment ***** you all, im not intrested any more, i am gonna do what i want when i want.

i have asked advice, i have listened, i have been looking for other suppliers, i have been looking for breeders, but none of this is good enough for any of you, everything i suggest something diffrent i get a load of abuse


so ****** you all


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

saxon said:


> *Your children must have been bloody freezing walking around while you did your 'questionare' poor things.*
> *How many people laughed and said they got their stuff from a petshop that they had used for years? They won't just stop buying there and come to you you know. As most pets are dogs, cats and small furries I doubt that a petshop failed because they did not stock supplies for those pets!*
> *More likely the economic situation has made them find a cheaper alternative.*
> 
> ...


yes there is, people aged between 18-30 can get them


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## snakeysnake (Aug 10, 2008)

This has got a bit heated! 

I have visited Essex Breeding centre and the conditions that the animals are kept in are excellent. All areas are quarantines and health and hygiene could not be better. All the animals look in excellent health and alot of care and planning is taken into account regarding genetics and inter breeding. Yes, the enclosures are slightly smaller than would be ideal, but pointing out the obvious, they are running as a business. Essex Breeding Centre is classed as a rodent farm. 

I do own a Pet Shop and have used them in the past to supply my shop with Hamsters, rats and gerbils. They have always been in excellent health and extremely friendly from the beginning. I am sure that they have not had excesive handling in the past but gives us a good starting base to make them excellent pets. They are slightly more expensive but as mentioned, the animals are not their for a profit. 

I brought my pet shop due to the awful conditions which the animals where being kept in. I thought that with my years of experience within the animal industry, I could make a difference and improve the animal welfare issues. I also thought that I could sell, better quality animals and send our customers away with all the knowledge and advice that they required. 

I can see the arguement from both sides as am also a small scale breeder for many different species. I have seen both good and bad rodent farms as well as good and bad 'hobbyist' breeders. I am sure that no one in this forum is nieve about what people do with animals behind closed doors.

I feel slightly ashamed that people on this forum have branded all pet shops which sell animals with the same brush. As exotic/ reptile keepers, we all have 'anti's' which like to put us down due to the few people which give us a bad reputation. 

Just to put a spin on things... how many of the people who are anti rodent farms buy frozen mice/ rats for their reptiles? The rats which have been chosen to be bred up as adults have had months with lab boxes waiting to be culled. How many of you have supported this industry? I know I have but am aware that it is part of the pet industry which is required if we are to keept reptiles in captivity. 

Sorry to stray but just a few points that I thought should be brought up!


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

reported for bad language..........you may not mind swearing in front od kids and helpful folks but i do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

helpful folk, i cant say i have seen many of them as yet


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

snakeysnake said:


> This has got a bit heated!
> 
> I have visited Essex Breeding centre and the conditions that the animals are kept in are excellent. All areas are quarantines and health and hygiene could not be better. All the animals look in excellent health and alot of care and planning is taken into account regarding genetics and inter breeding. Yes, the enclosures are slightly smaller than would be ideal, but pointing out the obvious, they are running as a business. Essex Breeding Centre is classed as a rodent farm. !


I would absolutely love it to be wrong on this - I urge you to share details of their enclosures, their genetic choices, breeding ages, health and temperament and handling procedures, etc. If I am wrong I would genuinely be happy to say so. In my experience rodent farm animals are not bred for health and temperament and not cared for properly. I understand standards differ, but I think we could agree on basic housing and care requirements.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> helpful folk, i cant say i have seen many of them as yet


As I've said on your other posts I wish you luck.

You will need a lot of money behind you, which you say is being given to you by family friends, government loans and an ex boyfriend. It is them that will loose their money, not you.

Working those long hours with little or no pay is not going to help you, your two toddlers or your disabled boyfriend.

Yes, by all means be ambitious show you want to work hard, but be realistic. I would suggest you try and get a job as an employee somewhere where when you finish at night that is it for the day. You are going to be working all day every day.

Incidentally, as your signature states - is your computer still in need of fixing - if so, might be a good idea to get it repaired!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

oh no, it has been fixed


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i didnt know you could get a shop license at age 12?:whistling2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

hahahahahahahahahahaha you are sooooooooooo funny


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i know they are steep, this is why i was also asking about M&C mammals. i would like to breed my own and only buy from breeders but where am i ment to get things like sugar gliders, SFS, APH and STO cheap enough for me to buy more than needed so that i can sell some and breed from some. i can get rabbits, hamsters, mice ect from breeders but many of the animals i want to sell i can get at the right price. selling exotics as well as other pets is the only way my shop will succeed, as this is making my shop stand out from the rest.
> 
> all my enclosures will be larger than normal. e.g 4x sugar gliders will be in an enclosure 6 foot tall, 4 foot wide and 3 foot deep, for rabbits and guinea pigs i will be using rabbit hutches as enclosures, these will be 3ftx2ftx2ft and will only contain a max of 2 small breed rabbits or 3 guinea pigs. all other animals will be in ventilated vivs and these will also be larger than the animals need, e.g 3ftx2ftx2ft viv will only hold 4 rats or 8 mice or 1 STO or 1 APH


I commend you aiming for somewhat better conditions, but rats should not be kept in tanks at all. You'll need at the very least two decent sized cages. These could work in your favour though - as you can showcase cage accessories, showing how many toys, hammocks, accessories they need, plus bedding choices. A nicely set up display cage will bring in far more customers than piddly little tanks - plus you will be setting a good example to your customers and teaching them the basic care needs of the animals. So a win win situation!



rosanna123 said:


> no, sorry i am not doing that. i do care for the animals, one of the reasons i am doing this shop is so i can have these animals, if i was to do what everyone is saying then my shop will fail in the first 6 months and i cant afford that. i am not doing it for the money, i do care about these animals but this is business, i need to make money to succeed and keep a roof over my head, i need something that is going to draw in the customers. i would love to know why it is such a bad idea for me to sell animals in my shop my shops like new world exotics are fine. and by the way M&C mammals is not a rodent farm and as i have said in another thread IF SIMONS RODENTS IS SO BAD WHY ARE THEY STILL ALLOWED TO TRADE, WHY HAS NO ONE REPORTED THEM TO THE RSPCA OR PET CARE TRUST


I know many people who have campaigned to these folks. But the RSPCA havent the power to shut these down. These places are licensed by the government. Like the puppy farms in Wales - still open, despite the RSPCA being involved in picking up the pieces (or as is more often the case, many many more small rescues).



rosanna123 said:


> [
> 
> 
> you know what :censor: off, i cant be bothered, if you dont want to read what i have said then dont, 2 pets shops have failed in my town because 1 they did not sell animals and people couldnt get to the places that did, 2 they did not sell the supplies for the animals that are in this town. i have done reaserch, i have been walking around my town with a questionaire asking people what it is they want from a pet shop and i am now going on what they have told me


It sounds more like your town has no need for a pet shop. If two shops have failed, and one of them stocked animals, what is so new and exciting about your shop that will mean yours wont follow? You need to be innovative, have something special to offer that other pet shops dont. I think the above idea about housing the animals in decent conditions would be a good idea as a start. And the internet shop idea I mentionned on another thread may also help?



rosanna123 said:


> yes there is, people aged between 18-30 can get them


Can I have a link please? I'm going to be considering starting my own business in a year or so, but if there's an age limit I might have to rethink (I'm 33 this year, sheesh).


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> hahahahahahahahahahaha you are sooooooooooo funny


 
well from what ive read, this is how old you are actin right now


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

Can i ask whether you've actually sorted anything yet? Like actually got a grant? Or bought a license? Or found a shop to buy/rent?
Just thinking that May really is quite ambitious if not...


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I commend you aiming for somewhat better conditions, but rats should not be kept in tanks at all. You'll need at the very least two decent sized cages. These could work in your favour though - as you can showcase cage accessories, showing how many toys, hammocks, accessories they need, plus bedding choices. A nicely set up display cage will bring in far more customers than piddly little tanks - plus you will be setting a good example to your customers and teaching them the basic care needs of the animals. So a win win situation!
> 
> thank you, i will keep this idea in mind
> 
> ...


look up the princes trust


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Elsa said:


> Can i ask whether you've actually sorted anything yet? Like actually got a grant? Or bought a license? Or found a shop to buy/rent?
> Just thinking that May really is quite ambitious if not...


i have a shop lined up to rent. i have all forms, prices, quotes ect. just need to finish my business plan and then i can get the money to do it all


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> my shop will be diffrent because i will be the only shop for miles that sells, inverts, lizards, amphibians, birds (parrots ect, not bugies and finches), normal pets (rabbits, guinea pigs, hamster ect.) and exotic mammals.


You know if you sell that many animals, you're going to need *massive* premises to be able to stock that many animals in the right conditions and sized enclosures, as well as stocking all of their equipment/food/caging etc!?


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Princes Trust only give out 2 kind of grants.

One being

Development Awards are grants to help you get into education, training or employment.
Funding for Awards varies depending on Region or Country. Please check the regional web pages for more information.
Among other things, a Development Award can be used to:
buy clothes for a job interview or new job
cover fees for a training course
fund childcare costs to help you attend a college course
buy equipment, materials or tools
pay for travel costs to a work placement, training course or job

What you get
A grant of up to £500 (the average amount given is £175)
Support to help set goals, make decisions and find other programmes or support

And the other is 

Community Cash Awards
Community Cash Awards are grants to help you set up a project that will benefit your community.
Funding for Awards varies depending on Region or Country. Please check the regional web pages for more information.
What you get
A grant to get you going of up to £3,000 (the average amount given is £1,500) 
Support to help plan your project, research your budget, set goals and learn about your community

Are you eligible?
You must be either:
aged 14-16, and achieving or at risk of achieving less than 5 GCSEs grades A* - C, or
aged 16-25 and not in education, training or work (or working less than 16 hours a week)

Projects must:
be run and managed by people between the ages of 14 and 25
clearly benefit the local community
benefit the people running the project; and
be a new or developing project.

What it's not for
Formal groups or organisations
Expeditions or overseas travel
Fundraising activities for charity
Trips and outings, unless they have educational value

Princes trust would NOT give out £23000 for a pet shop LOL

Another thing to concider is you struggle to deal with criticism on here.
Remember in a pet shop you will have people come in and scream and shout at you when little Timmy;s hamster have died within 2 days of getting it and they will expect you to pay for the vet bills etc.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

you are right they wont, but i start with them and get loans from banks and everyone to top it up


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Elsa said:


> You know if you sell that many animals, you're going to need *massive* premises to be able to stock that many animals in the right conditions and sized enclosures, as well as stocking all of their equipment/food/caging etc!?


 
it will only be a couple of each, not much really, the cages for sugars ect. cant have anything on top, but the vivs and hutches can be stacked to a certain height with cages ect for sale on the very top


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> it will only be a couple of each, not much really, the cages for sugars ect. cant have anything on top, but the vivs and hutches can be stacked to a certain height with cages ect for sale on the very top


With parrots *etc* and cages? And rat cages (as discussed earlier "tanks" aren't good), and keeping birds/rodents separate from the snakes so you don't have snakes with constant feeding responses. And places to quarantine everything?

Also, how can you expect people to want to buy cages that are stacked at the very top of vivs?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

the ones on top of the vivs ect. are display only, i will have the ones for sale in the stock room behind my desk. all they have to do is tell me what one the want to look at and i will go get one for them


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

in all seriousness what qualifications do you actualy have? because i know from eperience that princes trust wont give you the time of day if you have five or more (as stated in the post previously) but there not keen if those 5 or less are 'good' grades if that makes sense.

when i started up i tried the princes trust first, i have 12 A-C GCSE's and 3 A levels so i had no chance. however when my freind with 5 GCSE's tried they wanted to know her exact grades as the lady she spoke to said they were limiting it. i ended up going through the jobcentre in the end, no grant but £65 a week :2thumb:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> you are right they wont, but i start with them and get loans from banks and everyone to top it up


 
I am sorry but you have NO idea what the real world is like. If it was as easdy as getting a loan from the bank to start a business dont you think that everybody would work for themselves instead of flogging their arses to a faceless company 40 hours a week for ever?

Im not returning to this thread as its a pointless waste of space. You wont get any loans from the bank in this current climate. You need to have a good chunk of your own money to start out or the bank wont help. Get your head out of the clouds!

Still, atleast we dont have to worry about you purchasing badly bred sick animals and then passing them onto customers at a 300% markup:lol2:


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Also most grants and banks wont give a grant/loan to petshops as so many fail.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

this is what i am on about with people putting me down. have done my reaserch and i know that i can get this money


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> this is what i am on about with people putting me down. have done my reaserch and i know that i can get this money


You may have looked into it, but have you actually spoken to, and confirmed that it is definitely possible for you to get the funds? You say you haven't finished your business plan yet, so you can't have shown one to the banks, so they can't have OK'd a £23,000 loan!?
And someone has also pointed out that the princes trust won't lend you that much!!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have spoken 2 a couple of banks both have said i will get the money, they like my ideas and what i have said, they just need to see it down on paper and then the money is mine


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

If you are out of work u can get a lot more help. Business loans are expensive. Do you have a mortgage? I just set up a yr ago and remortgaged the house for some money. A loan I had to put up 1/4 of the money up and have large payments eachh month and have a plan and go to meetings etc. The remorgage was done easily, no hassle and only an extra £50 per month- that helps a lot! Might be an option that's all I'm saying. Also u don't have banks breathing down your neck.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

how? u said yourself you live in a small flat what capital do you have?banks wont lend you money of they have no backup for if you cant pay it back.your best bet is a supplies business,pet shops cant compete with [email protected] ive known many that lost alot of custom.ive done work exp on pet shops too and see how the poor hamsters come in from the wholesaler.you have a chance to do something new and exciting why do the same crap the others do


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

[email protected] are expencive where i live. i dont have a morgage, i live in a 2 bed council flat, me and my boyfriend are both on benifits, only due to his disablilty and me having my kids


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i have spoken 2 a couple of banks both have said i will get the money, they like my ideas and what i have said, they just need to see it down on paper and then the money is mine


then i would really like to know what banks they are, what intrest rate you'l be paying on the loan and the consequences of a missed payment.

you'l have to forgive me for being sceptical but when banks are hesitating to lend money to those in full time employment looking to buy a house (except at crippleing intrest rates and your credit rating taking a nosedive if you dont repay on time), im intregued as to how you convinced them that your a viable investment, especially if pet shops near you have gone bust in the not so distant past.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have spoken 2 a couple of banks both have said i will get the money, they like my ideas and what i have said, they just need to see it down on paper and then the money is mine


Banks don't tell you you will get the money, they tell you to come in with a business plan or they won't be able to even consider it. I am concerned that you are headed for a fall on this one, especially if you see people's advice as criticism. Will you tell the banks to "eff off" and go to hell if they don't like your illprepared plan?

I think Shadowz is right that we're all getting het up over something that isn't going to happen. If you seriously want to start a petshop, then you need to get realistic - you're not going to get a loan like this and you certainly won't be up and running by May.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> [email protected] are expencive where i live. i dont have a morgage, i live in a 2 bed council flat, me and my boyfriend are both on benifits, only due to his disablilty and me having my kids


My partner is disabled too and I have children. I am assuming you are listed as a carer or have to sign on? You're not going to get a business loan without some of your own finances in there and you can't have finances/savings to that degree and be on benefits (or they'd have stopped them). I would suggest getting into a full time job and starting saving and rethink in say 5 years.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

my plan will not be ill prepared, i am getting the money from banks and i will be up and running by may. 

i am going to do this, ask my OH when i want something i dont stop till i get it


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Rosanna, I've spent a lot of time in our favourite local shop, and can say that you're wearing rose-tinted spectacles for some of it.

1. If you think the owner of the business is going to have time during opening hours to handle each animal in the shop for ten minutes, think again. Getting the cleaning/watering/feeding done in opening hours is about what you're looking at, particularly if you're talking about a mixed pickle of species like you have suggested. I've spent enough time in a reptile shop to know that the owner of that shop *doesn't* get to spend much time with the animals, because he's got to be a business owner and manager first and foremost.

2. Parrots in shops - in my experience, based on several shops in my area - tend to stay in those shops for a LONG time. Even the nice ones that talk and don't nip too hard (and yes, pet shop parrots LEARN to bite if they're anywhere that visitors can put fingers in the cages) tend to stick around for months to years. Georgia, a lovely 'too in a shop close to us, was there for a minimum of eleven months. That's eleven months that she's not getting any younger and cuter, eleven months for her to learn to bite people to make them get their fingers out of her cage, eleven months for her to learn words that new owners probably don't want her to say, eleven months that she's taking up cage space, eleven months that she needs to be fed.... We watched the shop drop the price, too. Eventually she sold - but I do have to wonder, on top of the price the shop paid to get her AND her food costs over that time period, how much actual *profit* the shop made on her sale. Granted, if her cage was sold with her, and toys, the shop will have profited on those... but they'd have profited just as much or MORE if they'd sold the cage, the toys and given the prospective parrot owner the name of a trusted breeder.

3. I'd sooner see fewer animals in a shop (just enough to draw people in, if you think it needs it) and LOTS of supplies (which, incidentally, don't need heating, lighting, feeding or cleaning up after.... once you've bought them, your costs stop).


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> My partner is disabled too and I have children. I am assuming you are listed as a carer or have to sign on? You're not going to get a business loan without some of your own finances in there and you can't have finances/savings to that degree and be on benefits (or they'd have stopped them). I would suggest getting into a full time job and starting saving and rethink in say 5 years.


i have worked it all out, the only way we can survie is for my to do this as there is no way i can bring home over £500 a week in a full time job


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Rosanna, I've spent a lot of time in our favourite local shop, and can say that you're wearing rose-tinted spectacles for some of it.
> 
> 1. If you think the owner of the business is going to have time during opening hours to handle each animal in the shop for ten minutes, think again. Getting the cleaning/watering/feeding done in opening hours is about what you're looking at, particularly if you're talking about a mixed pickle of species like you have suggested. I've spent enough time in a reptile shop to know that the owner of that shop *doesn't* get to spend much time with the animals, because he's got to be a business owner and manager first and foremost.
> 
> ...


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> can you please tell this to KathyM i think it was, they belive that a pet shop owner should be able to breed and handle all their stock


Please don't misquote me or put words in my mouth. I said that if you couldn't give animals handling around the shop, you'd be in big trouble with badly reared babies from rodent farms who NEED it 2 or 3 hours a day to get over the lack of input as babies. I am sorry you failed to understand my posts.

As for needing £500 a week to live, have you a heroin habit or something? Not heard of Child Tax Credit? It's no wonder so many people get riled about those on benefits when some people make ridiculous claims such as this. There are support benefits for people on low incomes, and it would get you a lot more experience and respect than languishing on benefits claiming you need £500 a week, lol, what a joke! In fact it's a slap in the face for those who work their backsides off on low incomes.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

If your on support you can get loads of help with business planning etc. However business link loans are expensive and as said banks won't lend unless you have money to put in upfront even if you have a great business plan. 
It may be an idea to look at cutting costs and working from home though. Shops cost a packet to heat and run. How about spending money on a good website and advertisement and do the supply route. It's worth thinking about to start with. You could be breeding small mammals for your local shops. I did that for three towns and took six shops from Simon. (not enough to run a business but it was more for helping them and supplying good quality animals.)


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think a problem with working at home is the council tenancy - you aren't allowed to run businesses from social housing that I am aware of. Good idea though!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

this is to cover everything, both kids to go to nursery from 8-6 everyday, rent, food, bills, ect


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

But what people are telling you is that there is no way a pet shop will bring in a profit of £2000+ a month for many many years and its unlikely to ever give a profit like that.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

so what is the problem with being opitimistic


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

my friend had a pet shop,selling just pet supplies.she has done alot better with renting a storage and having a delivery service. people arent putting you down for the sake of it they are giving you constructive critism but unless its what you want to hear your being agressive and your shooting yourself in the foot.if u were like that with me as a customer i sure as hell wouldnt shop with you.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> so what is the problem with being opitimistic


that its going to land you with a lemon that ends up costing you money not making it


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i dont want to do a website, as i coulb never compare to the prices, i have no where for storage, if i was to get storage i couldnt deliver as we dont have a car. the only thing i want to do is have a pet shop


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> so what is the problem with being opitimistic


I think being optimistic is your problem.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ami_j said:


> that its going to land you with a lemon that ends up costing you money not making it


so what you are saying is, you have no money, you are on benifits, its never gonna happen so forget about.


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i dont want to do a website, as i coulb never compare to the prices, i have no where for storage, if i was to get storage i couldnt deliver as we dont have a car. the only thing i want to do is have a pet shop


You rent storage... same as you rent a shop...
Also, please tell me you don't think Mr Amazon, or Mr Ebay delivers everything by car... its called post


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> this is to cover everything, both kids to go to nursery from 8-6 everyday, rent, food, bills, ect


You would get support for childcare and rent. You don't need £500 a week, that's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, if you have qualifications that deserve that kind of pay then I fully support you wanting it, but any work's better than none and it's not true that you need that level of wage to live (as you said it was a minimum to live!) in a 2 bed council flat.


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> so what you are saying is, you have no money, you are on benifits, its never gonna happen so forget about.


in a word, yes.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> helpful folk, i cant say i have seen many of them as yet


I spent a good 30 minutes giving you advice when you first asked about running a pet shop and have helped as much as I could on your other thread as many other people including several shop owners took the time to do.

After the comments you've made on this thread, certainly I won't bother in the future!

Closed due to abuse/swearing/ranting.


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