# Dart frog advice please



## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

Hi all. Ive just set up my Dart frog tank and the frogs dont seem to be going into the water. Im wondering if it is the bubbles coming up from the diver ornament that are scaring them? They are just staying on the rocks. Any ideas?


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## Jem (Mar 12, 2009)

dartfrogs arnt very good swimmers infact theycan drown quite easily, so dont be suprised if they dont take a dip, hope that helps :2thumb:


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

As they are new to your tank.....maybe you should stop the bubbles from your diver at first as everything may be a bit daunting to them.
If you start noticing them using the pool - and you really want to diver...then start off with slower bubbles as most airpumps to have a bubble control switch - let them get use to the bubbles before you turn it any higher.
Good luck


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

oh right ok ill turn the bubble down then.. hopefully they will go for a swim.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

i need to keep them going a little to oxygenate the water for the fish


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## Frog Fan (Feb 9, 2010)

Cool, got any photos of the set-up. 

I am always worried about the fish trying to eat my frogs. Any problems with this ? Or does yours just sit on the floating cork bark ?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

How is your tank set up? It is usually recommended that dart frogs do not have large bodies of standing water in their habitats as they are very poor swimmers and will easily drown in standing water. If your water part is deep enough for a bubbling diver and you're expecting them to use that part of the viv I would suggest that your research before purchasing these animals was insufficient.

I suggest you get over to the dendroboards and start reading..a lot...quickly!

In the mean time post a pic of your set-up and let us know what species of frog you actually have and we'll be able to give more constructive advice.

Cheers

Andy


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

hi Frogfan, sorry no photos. not got a camera at the min. cant afford it.. 

So far the two goldfish seem very happy, they havent tried to eat the frogs yet.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

bothrops said:


> How is your tank set up? It is usually recommended that dart frogs do not have large bodies of standing water in their habitats as they are very poor swimmers and will easily drown in standing water. If your water part is deep enough for a bubbling diver and you're expecting them to use that part of the viv I would suggest that your research before purchasing these animals was insufficient.
> 
> I suggest you get over to the dendroboards and start reading..a lot...quickly!
> 
> ...


 
my tank is 3/4 water, as recomended by the shop. I have two azureus.


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

id realy be careful with water any deeper than about an inch,its quite common for people to loose them to drowning,especialy if there is any unseen agression going on,maybe put up some pics of ur tank,when using moving water most dart frog keepers use false bottoms or at least fill up the pool with something so that it is no deeper than an inch
at very least put a few things in the water so its easy for them to get out but dont expect to see your darts taking regular dips,they prefer water when they can touch the bottom,
im no expert but im pretty sure most seriouse dart keepers will tell you the same,3/4water will almost certainly result in a drowning,i suggest you tell the person who recomended this the same,
if i were you id leave the fish tank for the fish and put them in another tank thats all land,just give them a few dishes of water to bathe in,in the wild the deepest water they would venture near would be small puddles or tiny chambres in bromelaids,
if you search for dart frog tanks on google images u will find the vast mijority have little to no deeper water,and none tat are 3/4 water,

its a shame someone gave you such useless info on them but theres plenty of caresheets out therea nd no substitute for research


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Goldfish??? wow that must be a fairly large lil pool........
What dartfrog do you have???
Its not really a matter of the goldfish...its that dartfrogs are not designed to swim...only to dip in a small body of water as the risk of them drowning is very high. 
As you water would need to be deep to hold gold fish......this is most like the reason why your frogs will not go into the water....problem is....if they are forced to due to drying out...they may drown.
You will need to decide wchich pet you want most and remove the other.
This is advice based on no pic.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

deaxone said:


> id realy be careful with water any deeper than about an inch,its quite common for people to loose them to drowning,especialy if there is any unseen agression going on,maybe put up some pics of ur tank,when using moving water most dart frog keepers use false bottoms or at least fill up the pool with something so that it is no deeper than an inch
> at very least put a few things in the water so its easy for them to get out but dont expect to see your darts taking regular dips,they prefer water when they can touch the bottom,
> im no expert but im pretty sure most seriouse dart keepers will tell you the same,


It cant really be an inch as i have goldfish in there.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

3/4 water is not a dart frog viv. The water should be a little warmer than that suitable for goldfish. Goldfish and azureus are not good companions. You have been completely misled by the shop. Having said that I find it very hard to believe that a shop that sells azureus would recommend putting them in with goldfish or have a 3/4 water set-up. Are you sure your not on a late night wind-up?


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmmm my Dendrobates tinctorius azureus will first back themselves slowly feet first into water - hands out front holding onto the edge of pool to work out the depth of the water...if by the time their waist has touch the water yet their feet have not reached the bottom - they will not use the pool of water as they seem to know it is too deep.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

I was told by the shop that i could keep them with fish as long as the frogs had land to live on.. I only brought the tank from the shop.. the frogs came from a friend of a friend.. 
So should i increase the land area.


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Really hope this is a Sat Night wind up - otherwise that shop would have to be listed in one of the most awful advice I have ever heard!!


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## Frog Fan (Feb 9, 2010)

Yer maybe increase the land area maybe, this it goes up and down with the water level.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

Why would this be a wind up.. Im being serious. i was hoping that by joining this forum i would get the advice i asked for and not be made fun of like this..


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

no you should get the fish out and make it all land or give them another all land tank,1 species per tank!
seriously m8 if you dont want dead frogs and possibly dead fish(all amphibs release toxins into water and the name poisonus dart frog says it all realy)you need to get them into a propper set up,
look on google images and copy to the best of your ability,plenty of plants and bark etc,just coz its a frog dosnt mean it likes water


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

Frog Fan said:


> Yer maybe increase the land area maybe, this it goes up and down with the water level.
> image


Thats a good idea thanks Frogfan... at least there are some sensible people on here..


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

If I was you I would completely ditch the idea of a goldfish/dart frog set-up.

You need to go onto sites such as dendroboard (as already stated) and fully research your new pets. They will need a large, planted vivarium preferably with a false bottom and a good amount of running water to keep up humidity (although regular misting with spring water or RO water will suffice). Your frogs will also need UV lighting and a fully supplemented diet. What are you feeding them?


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

D. azureus and goldfish are not compactable in anyway or form - as the water needed for the goldfish to grow and thrive will always be too deep for your frogs. The high temps in your tank that is needed for you frog will in turn increase the goldfish metabolism...making them eat more and grow faster and creating more waste....it will also reduce the oxygen available in the water.
Which would you prefer to keep ??


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

Frog Fan said:


> Yer maybe increase the land area maybe, this it goes up and down with the water level.
> image


this is for newts and species that use the water more please please dont use these for dart frogs,id seriously drain the water get he fish elseweher and set them up something thats gonna give em a chance of surviving,
you should make sure whoever gave you this info dosnt give it to others,check a few care sheets out so you know what to tell them,
terrible practice to give such bad advise,
dont take it the wrong way m8 but you realy should have done some more reading up,


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

deaxone said:


> this is for newts and species that use the water more please please dont use these for dart frogs,id seriously drain the water get he fish elseweher and set them up something thats gonna give em a chance of surviving,
> you should make sure whoever gave you this info dosnt give it to others,check a few care sheets out so you know what to tell them,
> terrible practice to give such bad advise,
> dont take it the wrong way m8 but you realy should have done some more reading up,


most of what i read recomended water features.. so when the shop said yes to it.....


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

DARTFROGMAD said:


> Thats a good idea thanks Frogfan... at least there are some sensible people on here..


That platform is 100% unsuitable for dart frogs.


If you want us to blow smoke up your bum you're in the wrong place.

If you want sensible, useful advice from very knowledgable people then you are in the right place, we can help. However, if you're going to get upset if we are not impressed by your local shops advice then I'm sure your goldfish will enjoy their very expensive amphibian based food that you have bought for them.


I have only been keeping darts for a few months but I researched them for over a year before I finally bought some and my set-up had been set up and runnign for over 4 months.

These are not animals that will cope with the set-up you have.

This is my dart frog set up










and one of my frogs










please note the distinct lack of goldfish

Cheers

Andy


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

Omg!!!!


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

please feel free to show me any dart frog care sheet that recomends anything like what youve described,
please dont get on the back foot because of all these frantic replies,its only coz we want want best for the animal,well try and stay constructive here but seriously anyone who has recomended htis info hasnt got a clue about either species,
i can see how you would trust a guy in a shop but sometimes they are the worse of all,
your in the right place now but please head the advise you are given,for the good of the animals


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Hey, I don't think anyone's making fun of you.
It's just that the advice the shop gave you is SO ridiculous, that it's hard to believe! (not saying it's not possible, just so hard to believe)
There's quite a few dart keepers on here, so they can give you lots of advice!


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## wayne g (Mar 4, 2008)

:lol2:total wind up troll imo.


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

> If you want us to blow smoke up your bum you're in the wrong place.


why be rude.. 




> If you want sensible, useful advice from very knowledgable people then you are in the right place, we can help. However, if you're going to get upset if we are not impressed by your local shops advice then I'm sure your goldfish will enjoy their very expensive amphibian based food that you have bought for them.


Im not getting upset im just disappoint my the wat people have responded.. i cant help it if you think the shop has told me wrong




> This is my dart frog set up
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 
Nice 
[/QUOTE]


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

So I know that I have done m bit for the frogs if this is real (and clearly the shop needs a lond hard talking to if it is!), here is a link to the thread I posted about my dart frog set-up. It should give you an idea of what you are aiming for....

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/habitat/365733-exo-terra-dart-frog-dwarf.html


If this is a wind up, then so be it, I'll take my chances...


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

wayne g said:


> :lol2:total wind up troll imo.


see what i mean.. why should i waste my time


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## peterspets (Dec 17, 2009)

I hope you have got your fruitfly cultures ready!


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

peterspets said:


> I hope you have got your fruitfly cultures ready!


As it happens, yes i have..


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

I understand where you are comming from - my main mistake a long time ago was when I bought a turtle on the advice of shop keeper - very well respected huge chain store - so I believed every word. 
I took the turtle and he was great for a number of years.....only problem he kept growing and growing...way past the 4 inches the shop said.
His shell is now over 12" and can grow to nearly 1m......have had to upgrade him several times.....now he is in a 450L tank and we are getting planning permission for a huge tropical conservatory to build a tropical pond.......just to say that Shops do lie....its how you deal with it that matters from here 
Do you want to keep the frogs or do you think they will be too much hassle compared to the goldfish??


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

DARTFROGMAD said:


> see what i mean.. why should i waste my time


OK, if you choose to pick up on the odd person who notices how odd the advice is and chooses to call out early then that is your perogative. Surely if this was serious, you'd be more concerned about the health and well being of your pets and be angry about the advice the shop has given you and asking us for more and more detail.

The very fact that you are seemingly ignoring all the helpful and genuine advice and choosing to pick up on the odd 'troll' reference makes it more and more likely that the latter is true......


If you are indeed a genuine person who is worried that the shop has given you incorrect information then please answer my earlier question...

..What are you currently feeding your frogs and what has the shop recommended? How is the current tank set up? You say 3/4's water so what is the land part? How is it made up? Is it rocks piled up to make a island? How big is the tank and how big are the goldfish.


Please think carefully how you answer this as it could have very serious consequences. If you choose to ignore this post and pick up on others that might be less willing to take the bait then I will leave the thread and assume you are indeed a troll. IF you however, ignore those posts and carefully answer what I have asked there is a chance your pets will still be alive this time next week.

Cheers

Andy


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

DARTFROGMAD said:


> As it happens, yes i have..


good stuff if u have the food sorted your half way there,now u just gotta get their tank ready,
dont be put off by people thinking this is a wind up,thats just how bad the advise is,
dont be angry at helpful forum members be angray at the guy who gave you this diabolical advise,
make sure you tell them calmly and ploitely that they are completely wrong,if they sell them regularly you may litrally save lots of lives in the procces,
hope you can take this all in the right way and do whats best for the frogs and the fish to mention that

by the way can some of you dart frog guys take a look at my thread please,i realy dont know what to ask for the tank,lol
DARTFROGMAD,you can always buy the tank im sellin if u like, lol


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## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Bearnandos said:


> His shell is now over 12" and can grow to nearly 1m......



1METRE!!! you got a sodding teenage mutant ninja turtle!!!


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Oppps was ment as 1/2m........up to 52cm.......otherwise yeah ninja turtle
:lol2: :lol2:


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

> OK, if you choose to pick up on the odd person who notices how odd the advice is and chooses to call out early then that is your perogative. Surely if this was serious, you'd be more concerned about the health and well being of your pets and be angry about the advice the shop has given you and asking us for more and more detail.


Sorry i just find this behaviour odd compared to other forums im a member on. Yes i am angry that the shop has told me wrong but like the other person just said, newcomers beleive shop keepers.. im not to know they were giving the wrong advice..



> The very fact that you are seemingly ignoring all the helpful and genuine advice and choosing to pick up on the odd 'troll' reference makes it more and more likely that the latter is true......


Im not ignoring anything. Im sorry but i am sensitive and to be called a troll is not on.. 



> If you are indeed a genuine person who is worried that the shop has given you incorrect information then please answer my earlier question...
> 
> ..What are you currently feeding your frogs and what has the shop recommended? How is the current tank set up? You say 3/4's water so what is the land part? How is it made up? Is it rocks piled up to make a island? How big is the tank and how big are the goldfish.


My frogs are eating fruit flies. The shop just said make a land area with rocks. the tank is 2 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot



> Please think carefully how you answer this as it could have very serious consequences. If you choose to ignore this post and pick up on others that might be less willing to take the bait then I will leave the thread and assume you are indeed a troll. IF you however, ignore those posts and carefully answer what I have asked there is a chance your pets will still be alive this time next week.


I think you are very rude. and ive just noticed your a moderator.. omg


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

have i just been sucked into a huge wind up???????????lol


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

deaxone said:


> have i just been sucked into a huge wind up???????????lol


I cant understand why so many people think this is a wind up? 
I understand i may have done things wrong but no need to take the mic... we all start some where.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

DARTFROGMAD said:


> Sorry i just find this behaviour odd compared to other forums im a member on. Yes i am angry that the shop has told me wrong but like the other person just said, newcomers beleive shop keepers.. im not to know they were giving the wrong advice..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I fail to see how I am rude. I have given you a good deal of helpful advice.

Your shop gave you completely wrong advice that will mean your frogs are in completely the wrong environment. I appreciate this is not your fault, but how you act now will be the difference between dead frogs and live ones.

You need to get a plastic tub such as an ice-cream tub or something similiar. You will then need to place about four or five layers of kitchen towel on the bottom and add enough water to make it wet and water logged but not have any standing water above the kitchen towel.

The place a flat rock in the middle and place the whole thing half on and half off a magazine. This will give a puddle at one end and a slightly drier area at the other with a drier still area on top of the rock. If you have a fake aquarium plant or something you could add that to provide cover. Then add a couple of hides if you have anything suitable (a plastic beaker on its side or a waxworm tub or a yoghurt pot).

Then put your frogs into it. Put a few air holes in the lid and they should be ok in that set-up for a few days.

You then need to go and do a lot of research on the site I have already mentioned as that will give you a load of different ideas on how to set up a dart frog viv (or follow the step by step I have already put up.

Lets hope these little frogs can be saved


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

> Your shop gave you completely wrong advice that will mean your frogs are in completely the wrong environment. I appreciate this is not your fault, but how you act now will be the difference between dead frogs and live ones.
> 
> You need to get a plastic tub such as an ice-cream tub or something similiar. You will then need to place about four or five layers of kitchen towel on the bottom and add enough water to make it wet and water logged but not have any standing water above the kitchen towel.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks. :2thumb:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

You're welcome Imogen.

Good luck and let us know how you get on with your shopping list tomorrow.

If you need any further advice when it comes to properly setting up your new pets.

Maybe contact the mate you got them off as they should know exactly how to set them up, they're not cheap and he clearly didn't know the set-up they were going into.

Cheers

Andy


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## DARTFROGMAD (Feb 13, 2010)

bothrops said:


> You're welcome Imogen.
> 
> Good luck and let us know how you get on with your shopping list tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy.. I'll keep you posted.


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

I need some advice too..

My local pet shop advised me to keep my 2 leucomelas in a 5* penthouse suite in any hilton hotel.

only problem is the lift is broke and i cannot be bothered climbin the stairs.

Would it be ok to keep them in a 4* room instead?
i will make sure they have a full topped up bar and loads off pay per view frog porn!

regards
phil.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

philbaines said:


> I need some advice too..
> 
> My local pet shop advised me to keep my 2 leucomelas in a 5* penthouse suite in any hilton hotel.
> 
> ...


No. Four star rooms are grossly inadequate for leucs. The gowns in the bathrooms are the wrong material and irrate their sensitive skin. You need to phone Paris and get her to get her dad to install a new lift. If you don't do this immediately your frogs are likely to start letting their four star experience corrupt their minds and they will suddenly start craving 'Crystal' and 'Jimmy Choos', get desperate for Hello deals and start a major cocaine habit........

....you will need to get the top of the range £3.7 million lift with the climate control system and anti terrorist shell....otherwise you frogs will be dead by morning.


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

bothrops said:


> No. Four star rooms are grossly inadequate for leucs. The gowns in the bathrooms are the wrong material and irrate their sensitive skin. You need to phone Paris and get her to get her dad to install a new lift. If you don't do this immediately your frogs are likely to start letting their four star experience corrupt their minds and they will suddenly start craving 'Crystal' and 'Jimmy Choos', get desperate for Hello deals and start a major cocaine habit........
> 
> ....you will need to get the top of the range £3.7 million lift with the climate control system and anti terrorist shell....otherwise you frogs will be dead by morning.


Arrrr....There frogs are on there private jet on there way over to me now.
I will have to see if the mariot have a 5* penthouse suite avaible.

I shall call back into the pet shop and see what the reccomend.

I didnt relise keeping dart frogs cost so much.
but the pet shop failed to tell me that part...i also dont think they have a working permit....will it be hard to get one for them???


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

philbaines said:


> Arrrr....There frogs are on there private jet on there way over to me now.
> I will have to see if the mariot have a 5* penthouse suite avaible.
> 
> I shall call back into the pet shop and see what the reccomend.
> ...


....ahhhh, working permit.. that could be a sticking point. Azureus and auratus are exempt under the DIA 1967 (Dendrobates Immigration Act) due to the greeny/blue coloration. Although the leucs were fine until that point (DIA 1946, section (4) subsection (a iii)) the '67 act specifically excludes them from being allowed a working permit.

However, due to the reform of the act in '89 it is possible to get a working permit for luecs but you need to apply to the European council for dendro immigration. They based in Spain and it is important that you fill out form 423DL - a IN TRIPLICATE and on pink scented paper (otherwise it'll take six and a half years to be returned!)

Good luck with the paper work and I hope you get it sorted before they get themselves on the front page of the Sun for going a little too far with a group of pole dancers...


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

bothrops said:


> ....ahhhh, working permit.. that could be a sticking point. Azureus and auratus are exempt under the DIA 1967 (Dendrobates Immigration Act) due to the greeny/blue coloration. Although the leucs were fine until that point (DIA 1946, section (4) subsection (a iii)) the '67 act specifically excludes them from being allowed a working permit.
> 
> However, due to the reform of the act in '89 it is possible to get a working permit for luecs but you need to apply to the European council for dendro immigration. They based in Spain and it is important that you fill out form 423DL - a IN TRIPLICATE and on pink scented paper (otherwise it'll take six and a half years to be returned!)
> 
> Good luck with the paper work and I hope you get it sorted before they get themselves on the front page of the Sun for going a little too far with a group of pole dancers...


I think maybe i should start with something a little easyer....maybe fire bellied toads.....:lol2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

philbaines said:


> I think maybe i should start with something a little easyer....maybe fire bellied toads.....:lol2:


Special exemption, as it's Chinese New Year- but the Tories say that's one of the items they intend to repeal, even if it passes through the Lords. And you do know you need to provide full valet service and 16-course menus for them, don't you? That's what my petshop says...


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

philbaines said:


> I need some advice too..
> 
> My local pet shop advised me to keep my 2 leucomelas in a 5* penthouse suite in any hilton hotel.
> 
> ...


You should have gotten Tincs as my local pet shop says they are fine in a premier travel inn!


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