# URGENT hedgehog help



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

My aph just gave birth today and she doesnt seem to be taking much care of the babies  she had them outside of the hide so its easy for me to see without opening the viv or desturbing the nest, can see that all three are alive but shes never fed them and keeps losing them in the sawdust, what stage should i handfeed? worried sick.


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Is she a first time Mum? Has she got a hide/nest that she has made? 

If she is a first time Mum, she might rearrange and move them about the cage, but will more than likely settle down with them. 

She may have been disturbed a little during birth, to make her a little uneasy- hence the moving round the babies.

Turn the lights out and try and leave her in the peace and quiet, and dont disturb her and she will more than likely gather her babies and settle in her nest. Has she made one? 

I dont really want to answer the at what stage do you hand feed, because without trying to sound hypocritical (because I have hand reared), it is a nearly impossible task to handrear successfully particualry if they have received no milk from Mum.. they really do stand the best chance with Mum to be honest.. 

But if you can provide a bit more information, then we might be able to understand the situation a little better.

Kind regards, Sarah


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

It is always so worrying when Mums have babies and dont appear to be lookng after them as well as they should, and it is only natural to worry.

What is Mum up to at the minute. Are the babies squeaking.. are they cuddled up to each other in a pile, or scattered everywhere? Is Mum pacing up and down the cage?


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

she is a first time mum yeah, she has a hide but she made a little pile of sawdust at the corner of her viv instead, thats how i noticed the babies  yeah i turned her light off as soon as i noticed the movement so she could have a bit more privacy and turned the tv down a little bit more than normal.

Snowball is just eating and gathering more sawdust but the babies are scattered randomly around the bottom end of her viv, i heard all three squeek at different times when shes stood on them so i know they are alive, her viv is at the end of my bed so shes used to me sitting near and she even comes to her name to get out most nights, shes now just glass dancing to get out so i might so sit downstairs so she knows its not time for coming out


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

How are Mum and Babies this morning ?

What nesting material does she have so she can keep the babies covered? 

I would cover her viv with a blanket or something so she cant see the movement in the room. My hogs are really tame and love me to bits, but certainly within the first few days at least .. I avoid them as much as possible. Obviously making sure she has food and water etc. But particulalrly first time Mums can get very stressed out, very quickly ..

Let us know how the babies are.


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Shes moved the babies into the hut now, they made a bit of noise but ive not seen much of them since. 

She is on sawdust , i tried blankets etc but regardless of what people say i couldnt get them to not smell haha i must have a super sensative nose haha

I would have covered her viv but shes in a stack of three 4x2 vivs and 3 2x2 then a 6ft mesh chameleon house on the end and hers is right on the bottom and i dont really have pins strong enough to hold up a blanket. 

Regardless of all the research i done nothing prepares you for the real thing haha and they say live birth is the easist! pfft gimmie eggs anyday hahaha When can i lift the hut to see if any survived and remove any possible dead ones?


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Im so glad she has collected her babies and is a bit more settled now. She probably just panicked and didnt know what to do, where to put them etc !! 


Resaerch helps, but like you say, nothing can truly prepare you for the birth of your first litter of hoglets !! I have kept hogs and bred them for 6 years now, and even when I am awaiting births, I am on tenterhooks for days/weeks lol !!



If she is happy and settled, dont be tempted to lift the hut for at least a week. If you catch Mum out the nest, then have a quick peek, but certainly dont go disturbing her whilst in the nest. You will most probably find you wont see Mum for the next few days now.. dont worry. She will more than likely sit tight for a good few days. Hehe look out for a HUGE poo in her litter tray after these few days.. :2thumb:


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

A few times today shes been out for food and water but then went back, found one baby outside the hide so just spooned it back in, hopefully that helps  but when it was outside i heard another crying.. (snowball was standing on him again haha) so i know atleast two are alive up to this point which is great. 

Yeah thank god shes in a 4ft so i can clean her litter tray at the other end of the viv till the babies are old enough for a proper clean haha


----------



## Lozza.Bella (Apr 24, 2010)

*Glad to hear they are doing well, Congratulations!!!
Even after the first litter I'm always on tenter hooks till they start coming out the nest and feeding independently......... It's stressful LOL!!! I do have a big spoon next to my enclosures to pop any babies back, I found one at the other side on the enclosure next to the litter tray, I though he my have dropped off mums teats when she went to the loo, they where greedy little uns, but she did have 6 to feed poor lassy!
Hope all continues to go well and when they are old enough, pictures are compulsary!!!! 
*


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Found one dead female hoglet outside the den  looks like shes not taking that good of care of them  hopefully the other three are still alive


----------



## Lozza.Bella (Apr 24, 2010)

*Aww No hun....... Hope your ok, and mummy hedgehog starts to feel more comfortable with her litter. *hugs**


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

She came out the hide today and i could only see one baby hog looking in the door, Do you think its worth lifting the hut and looking for the other two to handfeed if they are still alive  totally heart breaking seeing them not make it


----------



## aliburke (Jun 20, 2011)

sarahowen1 said:


> She came out the hide today and i could only see one baby hog looking in the door, Do you think its worth lifting the hut and looking for the other two to handfeed if they are still alive  totally heart breaking seeing them not make it


Sara, personally, I would...... Mother nature can b a bitch and sometimes u just have to step in and interfere for the sake of the wee animals, it's gone on long enough.... Hope u make the right decision.x


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Does everyone agree?


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Im sorry to hear that you lost a baby hog. The reason the dead baby may have been turfed out in the first place (the one you put back in with spoon) is perhaps there was something wrong with her in the first place unfortunately.

Handrearing is a nearly impossible task hun. If the baby was dead outside the nest, and not eaten, I personally dont think I would interfere with the other babies in the nest if they are still alive. Its hard, because being a first litter, you and Mum hog will be really concerned and panicking over the babies. But Mum hogs do the best at rearing babies. Its a decision you will make, and I think in your heart you have probably already made your mind up about 'interfering'. But the way I am looking at it.. a baby was outside the nest.. you put it back in.. Then a baby is turfed out and is lying dead? If the Mum were going to harm her babies- she wouldnt have left the baby ''un touched'', which I believe there may have been something possibly wrong with the baby. 

Its tough.. breeding can be a hard thing- both on the Mum hog, and of course us too. 

If you have still seen babies that are alive.. I would leave alone if I am honest. Seeing a dead baby is a heartbreaking sight however. 

Have you been on the pygmyhogs forums to ask advice on there too?


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

This was a different hoglet from the one i put back in (she had four in total)  do you think the three she has ignored have had something wrong with them? they were slightly smaller than the one ive seen her with

I think il just go with you and leave them be and hope atleast one makes it, i would sign up to that other forum but after this i doubt il be breeding them again - far too upsetting haha


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Awww  Breeding for the first time and losing just one baby, or even a whole litter is such an awful feeling..

Are all the babies in the nest with her just now? Is she pacing up and down or settling down with them? 

Mummy hogs know best with their babies- and after 6 years keeping hogs, I know that I would always try and leave babies in with Mum unless I knew for sure that Mummy wanted nothing to do with them/or couldnt look after them for a certain reason (situation with my handreared hogs just now). 

Keep us informed with how things progress x


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Only found one outside the nest but when she came out to eat and drink i only saw one that looked like she was feeding and keeping warm  i think the other two are in there somewhere but pushed to the side or dead  shes packed the hide with so much sawdust its hard to tell for sure without lifting it, should i atleast lift it to see if they are alive/remove the dead hoglets?


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

I dont think I would to be honest. She sounds like she has packed it with so much sawdust and made a good nest etc for them. I really wouldnt go taking the hide off to see whats going on.. it will probably stress her out more. The more scent of you in the viv, the less likely the babies will be to survive. I would leave well alone for at least a day or two. Obviously if one falls out, then spoon it back in again.. but I would leave alone hun.


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Okay  i think the chances of the other two being alive are very very slim anyways so hopefully by not moving anything she will manage with this last one  19 years old and totally bubbling over a hedgehog hahah big softy when it comes to my girl and will be keeping this one if he/she makes it after this hehe thank you again for all your help, been great x


----------



## aliburke (Jun 20, 2011)

Slimeysnail knows what the criac is with hogs so you would be best go with the good and experienced advice going. I don't know what I would do but I know it would break my heart too so fingers crossed bigtime pet, really really reeeeaaly hope things are good.xo


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

It really is hard to know what to do for the best in certain situations.. particularly if you havent ever been in the situation before. Obviously all hogs act different, and with my hogs, I judge them all on the individual hog. Some of my girls-particularly first time Mums.. I tiptoe around them two weeks prior to birth, and for up to two weeks after. However some of my totally chilled out girls- I can handle babies very early and have no problems. 

I have attempted handrearing three times in the years I have kept hogs. After the second time, I vowed I would never ever do it again, as my first babies died after a few days. The second time- Mummy hog culled her entire litter, and I managed to take Tiny Tim away from her before she ate him too- she has actually chewed all his feet off so he was left with little stumps. I managed to get Tiny Tim to about 4 weeks old I think it was, and even on his little feet, little toe like formations grew- it was amazing. I unfortunately lost Tiny Tim too- to I would say the number one killer in handreared hogs- bloat. I was truly and utterly devastated, and I vowed I would always leave hogs to their Mums and would never interfere..

My babies I am rearing just now are over 6 weeks, and I started rearing them at day 3- and my reasons for this are written on my posts about them on here etc. But I am a big big softy at heart, and I could not leave these babies to pass away. I took the babies and started handrearing, and a few days after, Mum hog died. I feel that I have done Pepper proud, and I have learnt a huge amount fromthe whole experience.. but as I have said previously- it is a really hard job. I am lucky enough that I could take the babies to work with me etc. They came everywhere with me if I were going to be out for more than 3 hours. They are now 7 weeks, and are almost weaned. 

I wouldnt want you to think I am saying dont do what you think is best... but really, a hog Mum makes a much better job of rearing babies than what we ever could !! 

If you do decide to try rearing them, I will try and give you as much advice and information from my experiences.. but Mum hog is the best option for a higher success rate in my opinion.

Hope I make sense x


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

I think being so tame was snowballs downfall, she just didnt know what to do with them so left them, they tried to feed a few times then she just wandered off to play or eat  i gave in and let her out tonight since she hadnt been out in days and was stood at the glass for near enough an hour, she did have one wet teat so im glad the last hog made it, i just wish i had took the other three out and atleast gave them a chance with hand rearing since i knew straight away she wouldnt feed but took the risk  il be keeping snowballs little snowflake so atleast theres one possitive outcome


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

sarahowen1 said:


> I think being so tame was snowballs downfall, she just didnt know what to do with them so left them, they tried to feed a few times then she just wandered off to play or eat  i gave in and let her out tonight since she hadnt been out in days and was stood at the glass for near enough an hour, she did have one wet teat so im glad the last hog made it, i just wish i had took the other three out and atleast gave them a chance with hand rearing since i knew straight away she wouldnt feed but took the risk  il be keeping snowballs little snowflake so atleast theres one possitive outcome


Are you sure the other 3 didnt make it? Im sorry, but in my opinion I really wouldnt be letting Snowball out for playtime.. as her remaining baby is only 3 days old.. Obviously you know your hoggy, but I would not be taking my Mum hogs out particularly after the other babies not making it.. Snowball needs to know that she has a little life to look after.. and if she thinks she can go back to her normal routine coming out for playtime etc when she wants, she might just not bother with the last baby. I hope I am wrong. Keep us informed with how baby Snowflake gets on. x


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

She was ignoring it until i took her out for 5 mins then she went straight back into the hide and lay down so she is taking care of the last one, yeah im sure the others didnt make it, she wasnt interested in more than one from day one  Feel like its partly my fault for not going with my gut and taking the three she wasnt bothered with out and atleast giving them a slight chance since everyone knows there own hog and no two are the same


----------



## EVIEMAY (Mar 6, 2008)

So sorry you have lost your little ones - I hope she continues to feed the remaining baby.

You are not the only one who has faced this dilemma.

We are lucky to have experienced keepers on here that take the time to help.

As much as I would love a female and have a litter I am not brave enough - it must be heartbreaking.

Good Luck


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Just wondering how the remaining baby is doing with Mum ?


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

They are doing good, baby is getting huge, cant wait to hold him/her


----------



## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Ah brilliant, thats great news


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Snowball has decided to feed the baby outside the hide today, soooo cute, three times the size it was already! Snowballs still huge too which is good, going to clean half the viv today since shes at the other end


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

Mum and baby doing well, snowflake turned out to be a male  

slimeysnail: Ive read loads of different info on the net so just going to stick to one breeder and do it there way so can you please tell me what age to separate the pair  some people say as young as 4 weeks for males so they dont breed the female, others say eight  pretty drastic difference. Also what food you weene the babys on, pretty big differences in this care too  x


----------



## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

sarahowen1 said:


> image
> image
> 
> 
> ...


 
Have a read of this taken from Pygmy hogs uk
Log in
I think this is slimeysnails way of doing it too
Snowball is vey cute:flrt:


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

That link just directs me to a log in page hehe


----------



## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

sarahowen1 said:


> That link just directs me to a log in page hehe


 

Join the site it has all the information you will ever need on APH


----------



## sarahowen1 (May 28, 2011)

But il still have the same problem of different advice  haha. been on for ten mins and theres already like 100 different opinions on just dry cat food mixes! hahaha


----------



## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

sarahowen1 said:


> But il still have the same problem of different advice  haha. been on for ten mins and theres already like 100 different opinions on just dry cat food mixes! hahaha


 

There is no set mix its whatever suit the hogs lifestage and weight.
Hoglets wean by starting to eats mums food, no special mix needed although no light biccies at this stage and make sure you have a low sided water bowl so he can drink. He should be removed from mum at 6/7 weeks of age, 4 weeks is far to early. When I had a litter I followed advice off the recommended breeders as they have been doing it years


----------



## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Have a read of this taken from Pygmy hogs uk
> Log in
> I think this is slimeysnails way of doing it too
> Snowball is vey cute:flrt:


Have to say I use that forum daily and its amazing for advice. :whistling2:


----------

