# Tanks raised tads/froglets



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Sorry about the cell phone pics. I caught this yesterday. I do pull eggs but like to tank raise a lot of my tads and froglets. It's very rewarding. :2thumb:

Again!? I have a headache. (Males up front)



I'm outta hear. Time to check on the lil ones. (Female leaves)



A froglet that was tank raised. This guy came out of the water within the last week.



And another tad that will be out shortly.


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## rosy boa mad (Aug 17, 2008)

lovely darts my fiirst darts im raising from tads have started to leave the water :no1:


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Nice! 

Make sure post some pics Rosy. :2thumb:


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## rosy boa mad (Aug 17, 2008)

i will do ill wait till there all out first


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Nice!!
Glenn what do we have here,3 male 1 female?
Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Nice!!
> Glenn what do we have here,3 male 1 female?
> Stu


Yepper, Stu

I have to pull the one male in the middle. He was tank raised too and he's trying to get busy with Momma. :gasp: I'll have none of that! Not under my roof! :lol2: 

We wanted to see how a froglet would do with those other giant Tincs roaming around. As you can see he did just fine. He seemed to grow at a faster rate then the ones we pull. It almost seemed like they were watching out for him.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Aw Glenn your spoiling his fun.
Didn`t you know that incest in frogs doesn`t do them any harm ? :gasp:

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Aw Glenn your spoiling his fun.
> Didn`t you know that incest in frogs doesn`t do them any harm ? :gasp:
> 
> Mike


your right Mike some of mine come out with 4 legs and a tail:mf_dribble::blush:



Glenn thanks and interesting,yet to get one out in tank,i think ours squished our only tinc,will be a good while before the mysties pull it off,months i guess,thats a good dream though tanks raised mysties,he's carried 3 times now,some are def still around,so we'll wait and see,hopefully no sls
Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

That's an interesting topic guys and something we could sink our teeth into. How long do you think they can be inbred before seeing issues? I've heard as high as 16 generations, but that seems a little out there. Sometimes unrelated animals are near impossible to find. There are a few Tincs that are difficult to breed from what I hear and see. Lorenzo's have to be at the top of the list along with any of the Sips. Is it that they are difficult to breed or the fact that not as many WC came in and the gene pool is smaller than other imports? I think so. Thoughts?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Unfortunately there is little info kept on who has what and where it came from.
But there are scientific papers out there of studies into inbreeding and the results show that it does not affect frogs until way down the line, about 20 generations if memory serves me.
Personally I wouldn`t want to be inbreeding that much and if you were to pick up a "different" bloodline then your at least breaking up the cycle so to speak.
Where the frogs originate from are very small areas and at some point in time family members will come across each other and do what frogs do.
If there was going to be any problems then i`m sure we`d be seeing frogs going about with 2 heads or 4 eyes or legs sticking out of their butt or something.
But we don`t.
So unless your going daft and breeding siblings with siblings with siblings and siblings and on and on and on then I wouldn`t worry about it.

Mike


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ok, this is on topic, albeit not from experience with frogs.

As many of you know, I come from a background of keeping and breeding freshwater shrimp. A LOT of the shrimp in the hobby are basically line bred colour sports, meaning that they are inbred from the off, been bred from a very few individuals to start with.

One of the sports I kept were snowball shrimp, a completely white shrimp line bred from quite dull coloured shrimp (they bred blue pearl shrimp from the same). Now my colony came from German bred shrimp, and given as the Germans were much closer to the original source I had no problems to begin with, and nor did the people having shrimp from me, they all bred and lived quite fine.

With subsequent generations though, people who had bought shrimp from the people I had sold offspring to started having problems with their shrimp just not breed, and their colonies dwindling away. Over time my colony started to do the same, my original colony only living 18 months this been the normal lifespan for dwarf freshwater shrimp. So I bought another group of shrimp from another German breeder. These bred with my existing colony, and all was good again for a while. However those who didn't introduce fresh blood so to speak found themselves eventually having no shrimp, and one day as I had stopped buying new shrimp mine did the same.

I've chosen to use freshwater dwarf shrimp here, as with an 18 month lifespan, and copious offspring, it would seem to me that they accelerate the idea of inbreeding over time leading to problems, especially given that they are so inbred to begin with.

This kind of supports what you are saying Glenn, that maybe the problems with tincs such as Lorenzos and sips are indeed because so many came from so few, meaning that even where you get frogs from different breeders the odds are they are still related much more closely than a morph where far more wild caught specimens have been imported. The problems aren't like you get with mammals inbreeding though, with obvious genetic mess ups, they're likely to be far more subtle with more touchy animals, possibly smaller in size and a big reduction in the fecundity.

Like lots of other keepers I do indeed inbreed, but I also support those who succesfully buy in WC NONE ENDANGERED animals in order to bring in more new DNA, and also if I have the opportunity to I try to get animals from different breeders. My Regina for example are from 2 different breeders (although this was not a planned thing) and of my 3 female leucs one is from a different bloodline. I am also getting 4 leucs from Mike to add into my colony, at least one of which is a male, so should widen the gene pool nicely before I've even bred my leucs mine all been female. lol

Mike also knows that I said if his friend who breeds Regina wants to swap a couple of his offspring with a couple of mine then I am happy to do this as that way his pal gets some frogs that are from mixed bloodlines to mix in with his bloodline. Every little helps and all that. 

If you want to see an example of what happens when you go too far with inbreeding though, just have a look at the 'Singapore bee shrimp', as in crystal red shrimp, KingKong shrimp etc. These are shrimp bred from really tiny numbers of individuals, and are extremely difficult to even keep alive, let alone breed. Yet they demand about $1000 a piece over in the US.

We don't need to throw our arms up in the air and panic by any means, but it doesn't hurt to try a little to mix up the gene pools for our frogs, even if it's just breeding a nephew with an aunty rather than brother and sister. lol

Ade


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> Unfortunately there is little info kept on who has what and where it came from.
> But there are scientific papers out there of studies into inbreeding and the results show that it does not affect frogs until way down the line, about 20 generations if memory serves me.





frogman955 said:


> So unless your going daft and breeding siblings with siblings with siblings and siblings and on and on and on then I wouldn`t worry about it.


Isn't this what they're talking about when they say they can go 20 generations? Breeding sibling to sibling? 



frogman955 said:


> Personally I wouldn`t want to be inbreeding that much and if you were to pick up a "different" bloodline then your at least breaking up the cycle so to speak.


I agree, Mike.



frogman955 said:


> Where the frogs originate from are very small areas and at some point in time family members will come across each other and do what frogs do.


True, but when a handful of animals come in we accelerate that process huge. Some populations may be in some smaller pockets but the population can be large. 



frogman955 said:


> If there was going to be any problems then i`m sure we`d be seeing frogs going about with 2 heads or 4 eyes or legs sticking out of their butt or something.
> But we don`t.


I think they lose the ability to produce viable eggs before we would see this, Mike ie; Lorenzo's are extremely difficult to get viable eggs from. I've heard that very small numbers were imported. 

Cheers


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I think with breeding sibling to sibling we shouldn`t have too much to worry about as most people pass on their froglets and will stick with the original breeding pair for the duration.
I agree that we are working from a smaller amount of animals than which would normally be found in a given area.
No doubt the "damage" has already been done, and this could maybe explain why WC frogs all tend to be larger than the CB ones that we have.
Maybe there is that something missing from them that we don`t know about.
But on the other hand, in the wild they have a constant supply of food so can beef up relatively easily where we tend to feed them enough to get them by therefore keeping them smaller.
You may be right Glenn on the reduction in viable eggs but this is one of the things we could do with finding out about.
It all goes towards improving the breed so to speak.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm pretty much convinced that we are seeing some effects of a lack of foundation stock,with some animals.i'm with all of you in also breeding siblings and getting good results,the lack of any heredity kept here,will do us few favours i think in the long term.
I am seeing what i believe to be the effects of inbreeding with my panama special auratus.everything we do is the same as the the sb's,but the eggs do not hatch so well,and i don't think the tadpoles are as strong,also we are seeing colour abberations in the young,which is a sure sign that the gene pool is small. 
With specials being derived i believe from the 12 amimals birkanan and wassmann brought in this is hardly surprising,compared to my SB's which haven't been around so long.We also see far fewer eggs actually laid by the special compared to the sb's
Ade i think your bang on we don't need to be panicing about this yet,but I'm also pretty sure we could make things much better the the very long term by having some form of record keeping here.
I have a hunch that we might be starting to see the initial signs of inbreeding in azeures,im hugely aware that lots of azzies here seem to come from one source.
Having a pr of WC tinc and seeing just how viable and how strong thier kids are makes me more convinced on this hunch. 
There is an alternative way of looking at this though,in that all these morphs only exist in the wild because a population inbreeds with its self,ie a number of indivuals are cut off from other populations and through inbreeding start to look like each other,there is also the point that any WC pr coul;d well be brother and sister,of this we will never know.
So to sum up,we could do far worse than have some form of heredity paper where we could track our frogs, i do think we are seeing some effects already,in viabiltiy of embryo and tad, in some morphs.Possibly the massive change at morphout precludes many weaker individual from growing up.
It is alarming slightly to me that i've been told that something as familiar as as some morphs of auratus in the states is in danger of going out of the hobby,even more so when a particular population is no longer in the wild,

Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Ade, Mike and Stu

All very interesting points. Mike had said something that hit home "will have their breeding pair for the duration" Many times we see someone get into the hobby and within a few years or less you see that same person putting their collection up for sale. That's where we lose the genetic stock. Many times these collections are parted out to people that are new in the hobby and the frogs vanish. These frogs can't be replaced and there's how we end up on a very slippery slope. 

Best

Glenn


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

ha eat your words Stu,found 2 tads transported to the ditch and a good strong clutch of 9 eggs half developed,minutes after writing the above :blush: that will teach me
funny as hell
Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> ha eat your words Stu,found 2 tads transported to the ditch and a good strong clutch of 9 eggs half developed,minutes after writing the above :blush: that will teach me
> funny as hell
> Stu


:lol2: Are you going to leave them? I double dare you! :Na_Na_Na_Na: It's very cool watching them develop in tank!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> :lol2: Are you going to leave them? I double dare you! :Na_Na_Na_Na: It's very cool watching them develop in tank!


yup absolutely the 2 in the ditch i've separated, with a few stones,so they don't munch each other.the 9 I've pulled,not enough depo sites,that will be both auratus Glenn and at least 2 mysties,being reared in tank. It IS very cool,ha the mysties spend ages tad watching,funny as hell

Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Some more pics of tanks raised froglets.

First, we did a bit of tank maintenance and pulled 12 froglets. :no1:










A Powder blue ready to leave the water.










And a Leuc ready to do the same.










Cheers!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice photo`s Glen.
I`ve been feeding up a Leuc froglet which just appeared one day in the main viv.
A few weeks ago I found another tad which now has it`s legs coming out so it should be appearing very soon.
And over the past few days my Azureus has been carrying his tads around the viv on his back, I`ve seen one in the water dish and just waiting to see what he does with the rest.

Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Cool, Mike! :2thumb:

On the subject of the last few posts, sorry anyone who doesn't agree, but I still think inbreeding small groups is a bad idea. Yes, a lot of populations are pretty isolated- but even that is often down to habitat destruction- the frogs have nowhere to go, so they breed with what they've got. That's not 'good', it's necessity. In captivity, the situation is worse; the same breeder keeps knocking out tads, the same people buy them- and the end result is a very limited gene pool. As I have said before this is not good for any other animal on Earth, I fail to see how darts are somehow the evolutionary and genetic exception.


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> I fail to see how darts are somehow the evolutionary and genetic exception.


They are because darts are awesome Ron ... everyone knows that.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I have to agree with some of your argument Ron.
The main difference is that in the wild, although there is inbreeding going on because of the small areas in which frogs reside we are talking large amounts of frogs over a reasonably large area.
Because they are spread over that area the chances of inbreeding are reduced rather more than with CB frogs simply because of the reasons you give above.
All we can do is try to keep it to a minimum.
It is going to happen for sure and not a lot can be done to stop it and it probably is too late for us to start worrying about it now.
So all we can do is try and avoid it with the frogs which we already own.
Anyway here is a photo of that Leuc tad I took a few minutes ago, you can just see one of it`s back feet.
I`ll grab a better one later.


Mike


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> That's an interesting topic guys and something we could sink our teeth into. How long do you think they can be inbred before seeing issues? I've heard as high as 16 generations, but that seems a little out there. Sometimes unrelated animals are near impossible to find. *There are a few Tincs that are difficult to breed from what I hear and see. Lorenzo's have to be at the top of the list along with any of the Sips.* Is it that they are difficult to breed or the fact that not as many WC came in and the gene pool is smaller than other imports? I think so. Thoughts?


I used to have a breeding group of 5 green sips and never had any problems with them breeding in fact it was the complete opposite. I had trouble keeping up with them and had 70 tads on the go at one stage. :lol2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> I used to have a breeding group of 5 green sips and never had any problems with them breeding in fact it was the complete opposite. I had trouble keeping up with them and had 70 tads on the go at one stage. :lol2:


And their offspring? And their offsprings offspring- have to think long-term, dude!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Here you go Ron, junior facing me down :lol2:.
And, I also caught dad dropping his kid off in the water dish :2thumb:.

Mike


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> *On the subject of the last few posts*, sorry anyone who doesn't agree, but I still think inbreeding small groups is a bad idea. Yes, a lot of populations are pretty isolated- but even that is often down to habitat destruction- the frogs have nowhere to go, so they breed with what they've got. That's not 'good', it's necessity. In captivity, the situation is worse; the same breeder keeps knocking out tads, the same people buy them- and the end result is a very limited gene pool. As I have said before this is not good for any other animal on Earth, I fail to see how darts are somehow the evolutionary and genetic exception.


Ron, I agree with you, but I don't see how the last few posts and tank raising has to do with inbreeding. 

How is it any different then pulling eggs and raising them? 

Cheers,


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm still very new to all this, at froggy genetics is stupidly confusing.. But here's a question???

If In the wild there are only small locals there is a chance of inbreeding, so how does the strain stay strong?? Especially since inbreeding effects fertility??

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

vukic said:


> I'm still very new to all this, at froggy genetics is stupidly confusing.. But here's a question???
> 
> If In the wild there are only small locals there is a chance of inbreeding, so how does the strain stay strong?? Especially since inbreeding effects fertility??
> 
> Tiger


Don't know Tiger, but I'm guessing some of these 'small pockets' aren't so small and the frogs would be in abundance. 

Myself, I'm a hobbyist and want to keep it that way. It would be VERY unlikely that I'll take it any further than that. I don't see tromping around the rainforest searching for new frogs in my future, so I try not to worry about these things too much. I'll leave it to people that are more capable and just sit back and enjoy the benefits of their hard work. The best thing I can do to support them is buy their frogs or donate money to help them out! 

Cheers,


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well I never did get another photo of the tadpole and now it has gone.
But today I found the "butterfly" which it has turned into.
And it`s already trying to munch Mels down.

Mike


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Cool, Mike! :2thumb:
> 
> On the subject of the last few posts, sorry anyone who doesn't agree, but I still think inbreeding small groups is a bad idea. Yes, a lot of populations are pretty isolated- but even that is often down to habitat destruction- the frogs have nowhere to go, so they breed with what they've got. That's not 'good', it's necessity. In captivity, the situation is worse; the same breeder keeps knocking out tads, the same people buy them- and the end result is a very limited gene pool. As I have said before this is not good for any other animal on Earth, I fail to see how darts are somehow the evolutionary and genetic exception.


Im completely with you on this one Ron. I would do all i can to avoid using parents with siblings, or siblings with siblings. Gentetics are a topic that is above me, but i am fully aware that interbreeding is not good on a long term basis. As a soul keeper of captive bred specamins i know by the time a frog reaches me it could be a fair few generations down the line of interbred off spring. Breeders are breeders and im sure that they do not constantly purifie the bloodline which is why i will source my frogs from seperate local on the hope they have come from different farms.

When people refer to frogs in there natural habitats it is a completly different subject from in captivity. By the time the offspring of parents A are old enough to breed the chances of interbreeding is greatly reduced due to age difference, habbitat destruction, preditation, the terratorial nature of these frogs, death and the presence of off spring from other parents. Even if a related offspring did breed it is highly unlikley that the interbreeding would carry on for generation after generation. Yes there will be some level of interbreeding but the chances of consistant related offspring readily producing are very low. Lets not forget isolated populations are not just 10 or 20 frogs.

Nature has a way of balancing its self and im sure that constant breeding of related siblings would ultimately result in unhealthy frogs that would not be able to survive or continue the bloodline, thus restoring the balance.
(I need to stop watching starwars lol)


On a side note to this, but still related, do you not think that through a frogs natural instinct to breed this is how new morphs have risen? We are all aware that dendrobates will happily create what the hobby refers to as "hybrids" and im sure that this has and does happen constantly in there natural habitat. 

I must point out that im not using this as a statment to justify or promote mixed enclosures, or the creation of hybrids. Natural selection is one thing, a man and a viv playing god is another.

Dave


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Nice Mike!! Very rewarding isn't it? :2thumb:

Still don't know what inbreeding has to do with tank raising...:whistling2:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

frogfreak said:


> Nice Mike!! Very rewarding isn't it? :2thumb:
> 
> Still don't know what inbreeding has to do with tank raising...:whistling2:


Nothing and lots is the answer. Rearing tads is situ is great and there is alot to be said for it. The down side is that if the froglets are left to grow and stay in the vivarium then there is a considerably high chance of interbreeding occuring later down the line.

Responsable breeding is not just thinking of the here and now, it is also thinking and planning for the future. Breeding is a fun part of the hobby but it is by no means something that should be attempted without weighing up all the possible effects it can have both in the current circumstances and later down the line.

In my opinion if the offspring are to be sold then the conversation regarding interbreeding is void on this particular thred, however if any, even 1 are to be left in the vivarium then it is something to consider.

Dave


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

knighty said:


> The down side is that if the froglets are left to grow and stay in the vivarium then there is a considerably high chance of interbreeding occuring later down the line.


Hi Dave,

That's where the confusion is coming from... In post #19 I showed a dozen froglets being pulled. I would not recommend them being left in viv and allowed to breed. I've done it twice and they've since been pulled.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Hi mate

Yes i am aware of that but as i have said time and time again, these forums will be read by the general public so in my post i make sure that i cover all bases. My original posts was just in regard to what ron had stated, i was simply backing his opinion and supporting it with mine.

Sorry if any of this has come accross as i shot at you, that was not by any means the intention.

Dave


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

knighty said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Yes i am aware of that but as i have said time and time again, these forums will be read by the general public so in my post i make sure that i cover all bases. My original posts was just in regard to what ron had stated, i was simply backing his opinion and supporting it with mine.
> 
> ...


No problem at all, Dave. It's all Ron's fault. :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

frogfreak said:


> It's all Ron's fault. :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


I vote that as this sections catchphrase :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Lol.. Genetics and inbreeding is a complex matter.. It's all Ron's fault... :-D

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a suggestion.
Lets get this thread of Glenns back on topic and those who want to argue about inbreeding move out and start a specific thread of their own :2thumb:.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Nice Mike!! Very rewarding isn't it? :2thumb:


Yes Glenn it is very rewarding.
Nothing beats finding the parents taking their kids to water and then there is the way that they stand guard over them.
I`d regularly see the Leucs staring down into the pool watching their tads.
They`ve had several in there now.
I`m now wondering if in fact they do this in the wild at all.

Mike


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> I have a suggestion.
> Lets get this thread of Glenns back on topic and those who want to argue about inbreeding move out and start a specific thread of their own :2thumb:.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike, but I don't mind the topic being brought up. I don't want anyone to think tank raising = inbreeding. I should have made it more clear from the start that I pull em. :blush:


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> Yes Glenn it is very rewarding.
> Nothing beats finding the parents taking their kids to water and then there is the way that they stand guard over them.
> I`d regularly see the Leucs staring down into the pool watching their tads.
> They`ve had several in there now.
> ...


You've got that right! 

I've seen this behaviour too. I also seen small froglets coming onto land and the males "guiding" them along. They say the parental care stops at depositing the tads, but these kinds of behaviours make me wonder...

At any rate, we sure do enjoy watching it! :flrt:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

frogman955 said:


> I have a suggestion.
> Lets get this thread of Glenns back on topic and those who want to argue about inbreeding move out and start a specific thread of their own :2thumb:.
> 
> Mike


That does sound like a good idea as it is a topic that can be talked about alot.



frogfreak said:


> No problem at all, Dave. It's all Ron's fault. :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


LOL lets not put all the blame on ron, i personally feel his points are valid thus my continuing posts. 

Ron ill share the blame with LOL

Dave


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ahh man can't I be blamed too:lol2:.

Mike I love the little luec staring you down,it's that I'm going for the throat look if I don't get fed:whistling2:.
Ok serious stuff,

We've seen the tad watching too,auratus leucs tincs and mysties do it. We have got a mystie that has morphed out in viv. he's really well,but I haven't yet managed a picture.I am going to leave him in situ for the moment. as i'm curious to see whether he can make it on his own. But I'm amazed he's managed to get this far.aproximately 6 months for him to morphout,a couple of feeds of springtails just after he left the water and his now nailing mels like a good 'un. I thought he hadn't made it as he disappeared for a while,but now he looks so strong i really think he will do. It's been fabulous watching him with his parents,

Stu


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I think the water dish in my Azureus viv has sprung a leak so I`ve a moat appeared at the front of the viv.
The other night I`m clearing it out with the good ole turkey baster and the Azzies all started crowding around.
Next I know I`ve sucked up a tadpole.
The water was all brown and yet they knew it was there and were looking out for it.
Tincs are amazing things really and a lot more intelligent than I think they`re given credit for.

Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> No problem at all, Dave. It's all Ron's fault. :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:





vukic said:


> Lol.. Genetics and inbreeding is a complex matter.. It's all Ron's fault... :-D
> 
> Tiger
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2





knighty said:


> That does sound like a good idea as it is a topic that can be talked about alot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't mind being blamed by our Resident Colonial- it's kind of sweet, really- or possibly even quaint! :lol2:


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> I think the water dish in my Azureus viv has sprung a leak so I`ve a moat appeared at the front of the viv.
> The other night I`m clearing it out with the good ole turkey baster and the Azzies all started crowding around.
> Next I know I`ve sucked up a tadpole.
> The water was all brown and yet they knew it was there and were looking out for it.
> ...


That's pretty damn cool, Mike! :2thumb:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Damn it Glenn I once considered selling my Azzies.
Am I glad I changed my mind.
Between them and my Leucs do I need any others lol.
Well, there is the Terribs too, we just love them, all ten of them.

Mike


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## Raych (Mar 1, 2010)

So I'm letting my Fire Bellies get on with things, should I just leave them all be when they do eventually give me some little babies?


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Raych said:


> So I'm letting my Fire Bellies get on with things, should I just leave them all be when they do eventually give me some little babies?


I know squat about Fire Bellies. Ron?


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## Raych (Mar 1, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> I know squat about Fire Bellies. Ron?


I was advised to move the tadpoles just terrified if I do I'll kill them. What I thought was spawn was just air bubbles so no babies just yet. I've got them in my fanarium whilst I've been fitting a glass shelf in their tank for the soil area so if they leave me babies I will be a happy girl indeed.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Raych said:


> So I'm letting my Fire Bellies get on with things, should I just leave them all be when they do eventually give me some little babies?





frogfreak said:


> I know squat about Fire Bellies. Ron?





Raych said:


> I was advised to move the tadpoles just terrified if I do I'll kill them. What I thought was spawn was just air bubbles so no babies just yet. I've got them in my fanarium whilst I've been fitting a glass shelf in their tank for the soil area so if they leave me babies I will be a happy girl indeed.


*If* they breed and you *really* don't want to move the eggs or tads, move the adults for a while into something temporary, till they develop. Unlike, as I understand it, a lot of darts, they will happily eat their young.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yet another diversion- you can't blame *me *for this one, though, Mountyboy! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yet another diversion- you can't blame *me *for this one, though, Mountyboy! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Too friggin funny, Ron!! :lol2::lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron 'erm:no1:

Glenn here ya go,a crap pic,but finally I "got 'im"



I'm still shocked by this one,so much time for something to go wrong with a mystie,I'll be gutted if he doesn't make it now,I really think he will though:2thumb:

Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Looking good, Stu! :2thumb: How old do you figure it is?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Looking good, Stu! :2thumb: How old do you figure it is?


Gotta be 3/4weeks Glenn, we watched him morph and he hung about the ditch for a few days,so I got some springs into him,gave him a start.
He's taking hydie already and anything else it can nail. If I wasn't so bloody cautious I'b be sure he'll do mate:lol2:,but one never can be sure 100% with livestock,but he's a strong little fella no doubting that!!

Stu


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