# White spot treatment safe for crayfish?



## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Hiya folks, i've noticed that my red finned shark is showing signs of white spot, i'm obviously going to treat for this. Will it be safe to use white spot treatments with my red clawed crayfish in the tank or will i need to seperate him? If i need to seperate him how long would this need to be for? Any help would be appreciated cheers :flrt:


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Any idea folks? I've tried looking on google and can't find any info


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

yeah u can treat him using white spot treatment dont use anything like protozin as it kills shrimps snails ect ect so white spot treatment will be fine, good luck clearing it


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

most commercial white spot treatments use copper. This will kill crustaceans faster than me with a shrimp fork. Move him to another tank and dont put him back in until at least 6 weeks after the treatments ended and do regular (and i mean regular) 50% water changes. Copper solutions will absorb into the soft furnishings in the tank and takes a while to leach back out into the water so regular water changes after the treatment are needed to flush it all out.

You could try raising the salinity to 4ppt instead of using a commercial treatment. works well and i dont think it shud affect a crayfish much. Might need someone to back that up tho. not tried it with crustanceans before.


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

i use white spot treatment on shrimps and snails, aint killed them yet


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

hence why i said most. Although a mild copper solution can just 'knock' snails and shrimp unconcious (or something analagous). They will revive but with the bioaccumulating properties of copper, it is likely thier lifespan will be dramatically shortened.

If there is any doubt when using copper based medications with crustaceans, the only safe precaution is to not use it at all. They can be sooo sensitive to it; put it this way, TMC run a mild copper solution through thier fish racks and they wont even let you use a net thats been in the copper water to catch inverts out the invert racks. Copper kills inverts, hence why it kills whitespot.


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Cool i'll avoid protozin then, cheers.

LOL i won't let you near him with a shrimp fork then lol. The crayfish i have is a freshwater beast? Would making it saline not kill sebastian and the fish i have? Soft furnishings? Will sebastian have white spot as well then?


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

gwinni said:


> Cool i'll avoid protozin then, cheers.
> 
> LOL i won't let you near him with a shrimp fork then lol. The crayfish i have is a freshwater beast? Would making it saline not kill sebastian and the fish i have? Soft furnishings? Will sebastian have white spot as well then?


Yeah high levels of salt will kill freshwater fish, but most will easily handle 4ppt as that is very low concentracion (but the freshly hatched white spot parasites will die). Depends on the species but so long as you dont have any scaleless species they will handle 4ppt no worries. hold it at 4ppt for 3 weeks then reduce salinity gradually over a few water changes. and also only use marine aquarium salt. not table salt lol! also raise the temp a degree or two to speed up the white spot lifecycle

like i said though, ive never used saline treatment in a tank with a crustacean so am not 100% certain he will be happy with 4ppt. My gut feeling is that he will, but wouldnt put my name to it. Best bet would be to use a salt treatment (as it leaves no harmful residues) but move sebatian to seperate tank for the 3 weeks

Soft furnishings are things like plastic plants, porous rocks, castles and ornemants etc and the substrate. things like glass wont absorb copper but most other things will.

They cray fish wont be infected. thier cuticle protects them from the parasites.


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

yeah he will be carryin it, i have treated lobsters with white spot treatment, u cant tell how fish will react to treatments, i work in a pet shop and treat my tanks reg with white spot, and i aint lost a snail yet and had them in my tank for 4 months, so i would advise you go for what u feel, if u want i will phone my fish imports tomoz and ask them if u like his been fish keeping for donkeys????


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

sharks dont have scales???? so it wont work


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

like i said in my original post tho... u cud safely use a copper based treatment, but you wud need to rehome sebastian for its duration and a bit more, and make sure you flushed the tank out plenty. you can buy cheap copper test kits to check the tank was clean before he went back in...


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

ziggy's owner said:


> sharks dont have scales???? so it wont work


what? freshwater sharks have obvious scales... they are the diamond like scales like things all over the fish...

perhaps your thinking of elasmobranchs... they have dermal denticles and are actual sharks, far beyond the need for a whitspot treatment...


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

so why have i used it with shrimps/lobsters ect ect and never had a prob? also my snails i've never had a trouble with, and we have been told u can use white spot safely with shrimps ect ect


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

i dont know, there are alot of brands of medications out there. the vast majority use copper. copper is not safe for inverts. so without knowing the brand used or the dose rate it cant be reccomended to use copper in a tank with a beloved pet. get over it.

maybe your treatment uses copper and your shrimp and snails have been exposed and maimed, maybe you didnt add the correct dose, i dont know, all i do know is copper kills inverts. copper kills whitespot. use your head if you want to minimise risk to poor old sebastian!


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

whatever, i aint ever had a prob and i was telling him what my fish surpplier have told me, so u get over ur self, end off


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

ok i will. Fish suppliers will tell you anything to sell a product. Never said you were lying bout your stuff surviving. just said that most treatments contain copper and copper kills or maims inverts. End of


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

i'm really gud friends with my fish suppler and have been using him for 13 years, and no they dont try and make u buy stuff, but i only tried to help and u make it as if everyones wrong but u so have ya fun and gud bye


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

ok bye. Sorry for this verbal diaorhea all over you thread Gwinni. 

Apparantly ive been 'schooled' on fish treatment. next time i have money to waste i'll kill all my inverts with copper treatments and wonder how that makes me a better aquarist.

P.s. good luck with your problem! Whitespots a bitch!


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

If sebastian isn't affected by white spot then i'll seperate him, i have a spare extra large RUB, heater and filter i can use for the moment ( i don't have a spare glass tank) the fish are, 1 kissing gourami, 1 red finned shark, 1 gold spot plec and 6 glowlight tetras. If i took the rock and bogwood out the tank when i treated would that lessen the time he was seperated form my main tank?


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

probably. wood will absorb alot of copper. your best bet will be to seperate him out. add a commercial treament (see if you can get a safe one, didnt ever say you cant get them, just that most arnt safe) then treat for the reccomended duration. give the tank several good water changes over a week or two then add him back in. follow the directions on the medication you choose and just make sure you have flushed it all out of the system before adding him back in. So long as you do that he will be fine!

all your fish shud be fine in saline or copper based treatments as all are scaled and relatively tough. the Shark is the most sensitive skin-wise but he shud be fine! 

hope that has helped!


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Yes it has thank, is there any treatments you would reccomend? I wouldn't know where to start lol


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

also to clarify... Crustaceans arnt suitable hosts for whit spot parasites as they dont have a soft juicy dermal mucus layer to feed on. Perhaps the other guy was confusing fish whitespot with shrimp white spot which is a viral infection nothing to do with fish or fish white spot. Your crayfish is clean. just make sure when u move him to the new tank you dont take too much infected tank water with him.


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

I cant really reccomend safe treatments other than a 4ppt salt solution. Ive done a quick scan of the net and it seems to be that that is a common treatment with amano shrimp/fish systems so id hazard a good guess that your crayfish will be fine in it too. 

I work with freshwater systems much, much too large for using commercial treatments so cant really reccomend any brands as such. I usually use either a malachite green/formalin treatment (will kill him), Copper citrate (will kill him and is what most comercial treatments hinge around) or salt/increased temp (which shudnt do).

sorry i cant pin down a brand of medication for you. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable with smaller system treatments can assist more


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## ziggy's owner (Dec 8, 2009)

oh and i aint a guy i'm a woman, and i'm talking about treating fish that live with shrimps....


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

sorry for confusing your gender. your posts are crammed with information precluding your gender. i must have missed it.

I know what you were talking about. but without naming a specific safe brand of medication, it cant be said that all white spot medications are safe just because you have had positive results.

Name your brand and then this is all done and dusted. Gwinni has a safe brand to choose from and all is good once more.

Do you get where im coming from? just cos your un-named brand is safe dosnt mean they all are. most arnt.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

It takes longer to work,but Melafix is ok with inverts,ive used it myself on a tank with cherry shrimps.Increase the temps,and keep an eye on the water surface-melafix can cause a sort of oil-slick.(And ziggywhatever,your giving out potentially dangerous advice with uneducated guess work)


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Ok i'll have a look around for some, What do i do if oil slick thingy appears please?


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## HalcyonInverts (Jul 22, 2009)

increased aeration with an air stone usually sorts it out! Melafix is great stuff! Smells awesome also!


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

I cant believe how much of a riot has occurred on this thread. Long and short of it is there is a number of treatments that will deal with white spot. Some of them are deadly to inverts some are not. You can use Myxazin which is a bread spectrum bactericide that is not as strong as Protozin. The salt method should work but is risky if not sure. You can also try raising the temperature to over 30 degrees as the white spot cant survive above this temperature. 
This is a mine field as there are so many peoples oppinions flying about. I used to work in an aquatic specialist and i know that most of the conventional shite spot treatments say on the bottle that they are not suitable for inverts or smooth skinned fish like rays and proper sharks. 
I would be horrified to think that any supplier would sugest using a product that is not safe and I can only presume that they maybe use one of the safe ones and that is why they are claiming it to not be a problem. 
I am sure that you will come to a decision about what to try and I hope that all goes well for your wee fish.


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks russm, I'm still not totally sure what to do but i'll probably try one of these, Either seperate the crayfish for 8-10 weeks and treat the fish with bog standard treatment or treat with myxazin/melafix (is that like the melafix?) and leave him in. If i raise the temp would this need to be permenant? And would i still need to use a treatment?


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

gwinni said:


> Thanks russm, I'm still not totally sure what to do but i'll probably try one of these, Either seperate the crayfish for 8-10 weeks and treat the fish with bog standard treatment or treat with myxazin/melafix (is that like the melafix?) and leave him in. If i raise the temp would this need to be permenant? And would i still need to use a treatment?


I have only ever used melafix as a treatment for open cuts etc. I am sure it has tea tree oil as an ingredient which is good for healing. I have never used it for white spot. The myxazin is slightly different it deals with bacterial infections. The temperatuer increse would not need to be permanent. I would lower it back down slowly after the spots are away. I would raise the temp before using treatment and see if it works. If not try the treatment as well. If you raise the temp I would make sure them surface of the water is being broken, either by using the outlet of the filter or an air pump. As you increase the temperature the dissolved oxygen levels decrease and the fish find it harder to breath so make sure they are not gasping. 
All the best with whatever you decide to do and if you have any mroe problems you can just ask.


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