# Does'nt look good on DWA holders when thinngs like this happen:-/



## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> Leaving Facebook... | Facebook


I know, but i doubt our goverment will ever ban DWAL's. I hope not anyway lol.


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> I know, but i doubt our goverment will ever ban DWAL's. I hope not anyway lol.


your wright(I hope)just go's to show you there alot of dwa animals out there with no licences,insurance etc..........

remember not long ago there was a raid on someone with 3-4 african dwarf crocodiles,1 died and the rest went to some bird centre with reps aswell?


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## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

Would be interesting to find out (if they ever do) whether or not this animal did belong to a DWAL holder, probably not, otherwise they could've easily sold/rehomed it. Out of interest what happens if a DWA animal dies, do you have to register it through a vet for disposal?

As a firearms licence holder you see the government making unnecessary restrictions on the responsible owners that have no impact on criminal activity. Also, if you had to dispose of a firearm, say it was damaged you would take it into a police station with your licence and get it signed over to them, it can't just disappear.


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

gav.b1984 said:


> your wright(I hope)just go's to show you there alot of dwa animals out there with no licences,insurance etc..........
> 
> remember not long ago there was a raid on someone with 3-4 african dwarf crocodiles,1 died and the rest went to some bird centre with reps aswell?


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000823/Police-discover-crocodiles-living-bedroom-routine-visit-semi-detached-house.html
here is that story-


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> your wright(I hope)just go's to show you there alot of dwa animals out there with no licences,insurance etc..........
> 
> remember not long ago there was a raid on someone with 3-4 african dwarf crocodiles,1 died and the rest went to some bird centre with reps aswell?


I would guess there is quite a few, I'm pretty sure you don't need a license to buy from shows like Houten or Hamm. It's just if you get caught through customs, but some vipers are so small when babies..i'm sure lots of people manage to smuggle them in. 

I think our country is too democratic (on the whole) lol, they have no reason to ban it, only one death which wasn't the public. Similar analogy to someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 160mph on the motorway, they can't ban driving right. (lets hope!). 

Is that the one where the person was keeping them in a caravan? lol.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000823/Police-discover-crocodiles-living-bedroom-routine-visit-semi-detached-house.html
> here is that story-


This is the one i'm on about: Shocked police find three crocodiles, a caiman, two lemurs & nine snakes in raid on caravan - The Daily Record


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> I would guess there is quite a few, I'm pretty sure you don't need a license to buy from shows like Houten or Hamm. It's just if you get caught through customs, but some vipers are so small when babies..i'm sure lots of people manage to smuggle them in.
> 
> I think our country is too democratic (on the whole) lol, they have no reason to ban it, only one death which wasn't the public. Similar analogy to someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 160mph on the motorway, they can't ban driving right. (lets hope!).
> 
> Is that the one where the person was keeping them in a caravan? lol.


Think yours is another seperate story lol:gasp:

just gets me :censor: off,because the effort that I and most dwa holders go to,to get things wright!!


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> Think yours is another seperate story lol:gasp:
> 
> just gets me :censor: off,because the effort that I and most dwa holders go to,to get things wright!!


Yeah i posted it above lol. 

I guess a lot of the time they do it because of the crazy prices some councils charge. Should be the same price countrywide really, a bit unfair in some councils.


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

barrow_matt said:


> Would be interesting to find out (if they ever do) whether or not this animal did belong to a DWAL holder, probably not, otherwise they could've easily sold/rehomed it. Out of interest what happens if a DWA animal dies, do you have to register it through a vet for disposal?
> 
> As a firearms licence holder you see the government making unnecessary restrictions on the responsible owners that have no impact on criminal activity. Also, if you had to dispose of a firearm, say it was damaged you would take it into a police station with your licence and get it signed over to them, it can't just disappear.


Would like to know that myself about what happens with dead dwa animals(good point) but for me im guessing my crocodiles in my care are going to out live me so i'll pass the info on to my 2 & 4 year old sons for the day that happens:lol2:


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> Yeah i posted it above lol.
> 
> I guess a lot of the time they do it because of the crazy prices some councils charge. Should be the same price countrywide really, a bit unfair in some councils.


Yeh,thats so very true!!why all these mad varied prices,would be nice to have one set price then maybe if they want to make money just charge on the amount of species owned?


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> Yeh,thats so very true!!why all these mad varied prices,would be nice to have one set price then maybe if they want to make money just charge on the amount of species owned?


It's an easy way for them to make money i guess. My council isn't too bad its £150, but i've read other councils have asked like 2grand!! They don't do f'all. But if you charged per animal the people with like 50 snakes+ would be screwed lol. 

Should just be a one off fee forever really, i mean what do they need the money for after the license has ended? to print you out another one? You're the one paying liability insurance not them. 

Not sure how these things work, but maybe if all DWA keepers signed some sort of petition to have a countrywide fee thats fair..You might be able to make some headway?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

if DWA laws didn't exist the owner could have sold it easily... like here... sell it like a can opener or a sofa...

but there you have to find a qualified buyer...

not just someone that would want it...


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## gav.b1984 (Aug 14, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> It's an easy way for them to make money i guess. My council isn't too bad its £150, but i've read other councils have asked like 2grand!! They don't do f'all. But if you charged per animal the people with like 50 snakes+ would be screwed lol.
> 
> Should just be a one off fee forever really, i mean what do they need the money for after the license has ended? to print you out another one? You're the one paying liability insurance not them.
> 
> Not sure how these things work, but maybe if all DWA keepers signed some sort of petition to have a countrywide fee thats fair..You might be able to make some headway?


:lol2:just thinking of myself there"charge for each species owned" was thinking how many crocodiles could one person own in a private collection? yeh your wright people with 50 snakes+ would be :censor: with my rule lol(take it back)one set price is the way foward!!


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> :lol2:just thinking of myself there"charge for each species owned" was thinking how many crocodiles could one person own in a private collection? yeh your wright people with 50 snakes+ would be :censor: with my rule lol(take it back)one set price is the way foward!!


I will take the idea to the house of commons tomorrow then :lol2:


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## TheDeadDodo (Nov 5, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> It's an easy way for them to make money i guess. My council isn't too bad its £150, but i've read other councils have asked like 2grand!! They don't do f'all. But if you charged per animal the people with like 50 snakes+ would be screwed lol.
> 
> Should just be a one off fee forever really, i mean what do they need the money for after the license has ended? to print you out another one? You're the one paying liability insurance not them.
> 
> Not sure how these things work, but maybe if all DWA keepers signed some sort of petition to have a countrywide fee thats fair..You might be able to make some headway?


Think the price varies a lot like you said because its a way to make some money, but when looking at how many applications they get it wouldnt be worth writting home about for them, think the main reason imo probably represents how against that particular council is about having DWA owners in there area, higher the price less people will apply and own them.
Though this will push people underground as probably the case here.
At a talk I went to the other week by Chris Newmen he said something like ~80% (pretty sure it was this high, either way was scary high) of people owning DWA's dont have a liecence which is a pretty scary figure.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

HABU said:


> if DWA laws didn't exist the owner could have sold it easily... like here... sell it like a can opener or a sofa...
> 
> but there you have to find a qualified buyer...
> 
> not just someone that would want it...


How many people die from venomous snakes/crocs in captivity in America? Genuine question.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

TheDeadDodo said:


> Think the price varies a lot like you said because its a way to make some money, but when looking at how many applications they get it wouldnt be worth writting home about for them, think the main reason imo probably represents how against that particular council is about having DWA owners in there area, higher the price less people will apply and own them.
> Though this will push people underground as probably the case here.
> At a talk I went to the other week by Chris Newmen he said something like ~80% (pretty sure it was this high, either way was scary high) of people owning DWA's dont have a liecence which is a pretty scary figure.


But the thing is, it doesn't mean those people that keeping them without a license are keeping them in an unsafe manner. Just means they don't have the shiny peice of paper.


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## TheDeadDodo (Nov 5, 2010)

Which is what I said just drives people underground. 
Though I guess as far as the council are concerned they probably think if you have a licence then you will keep the responsably, if not you wont which could still be the opposite way around in reality.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

TheDeadDodo said:


> Which is what I said just drives people underground.
> Though I guess as far as the council are concerned they probably think if you have a licence then you will keep the responsably, if not you wont which could still be the opposite way around in reality.


Yeah, they are a bit stupid about it to be honest. 

They could easily stop it going underground by making the license free, but you have to pass the vet inspection which should be £100 or around that.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

My take on this is that the animals must have been owned by an unlicenced "underground" keeper who perhaps ran out of money to keep it going.

Most of us know of underground keepers and get offered critters when their circumstances change.

In this case the owner must not have known anyone to ask to take the critter on or indeed to dispose of it in an appropriate manner.

Its a real shame as I dont know anyone legal who would not have helped him out in some way.

However its a shame that the shop owner decided to go for some cheap publicity!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

surely the government knows who's keeping crocodilians, so they can "check in" on those owners to see if they still have them.. simple

i love the comments on that article.. somebody says ban these and constricting snakes will stop it


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> surely the government knows who's keeping crocodilians, so they can "check in" on those owners to see if they still have them.. simple


How shall I put this? 

I know I'll be blunt.......how the hell do you come up with that idea?


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> How shall I put this?
> 
> I know I'll be blunt.......how the hell do you come up with that idea?


um,l because surely defra (i said the government, that was dumb) have a record of caiman keepers, since i think you have to let them know what you're keeping. there can't be many caiman keepers, so they go to their houses to see how their caiman are ??

no ?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> um,l because surely defra (i said the government, that was dumb) have a record of caiman keepers, since i think you have to let them know what you're keeping. there can't be many caiman keepers, so they go to their houses to see how their caiman are ??
> 
> no ?


DEFRA have nothing to do with this standing for Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs

or known to farmers as

Dont Ever Fcking Request Answers

Goverment bodies do not inspect only Local Authorities do that


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

nsn89 said:


> How many people die from venomous snakes/crocs in captivity in America? Genuine question.


 
per year?

one maybe... more die from snakebite with wild snakes...


List of fatal snake bites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

more die from lightning every year by far...


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

HABU said:


> per year?
> 
> one maybe... more die from snakebite with wild snakes...
> 
> ...


Yeah i found some stats, saying that from 1999 to 2009 16 deaths have happened from captive snakes is the US.


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## Lukejaii (Dec 15, 2011)

spinnin_tom said:


> um,l because surely defra (i said the government, that was dumb) have a record of caiman keepers, since i think you have to let them know what you're keeping. there can't be many caiman keepers, so they go to their houses to see how their caiman are ??
> 
> no ?


Because of the illegal trade from illegal breeders? If it is as high as 80% not having a licence then that's a whole lot of unchecked caiman defeating the purpose of the checks ?


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

DWA in cornwalls only £290 i think thats a fair price wish i had a farm and my own land id build some outbuildings and have some crocs and some of the deady snakes (yes i know there all potentially deadly when theyve bit u but theres def stuff that its a case of yep im F kd call an ambulance and i need to get to A+E asap)


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> This is the one i'm on about: Shocked police find three crocodiles, a caiman, two lemurs & nine snakes in raid on caravan - The Daily Record


Shocking.



> Both were shipped 350 miles south to the animal holding centre at Heathrow airport - the *only place in the UK* capable of looking after such dangerous species.


:whistling2:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

Waaaaaaaaat its only a bloody caimen anyone would think the bloke had a mixture of nile crocs and elapids for the over reaction to move it to heathrow most large rep shops have the facilities or zoo's for that matter for small crocs


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## davesreptiles (Sep 10, 2009)

well back to the main subject of the OP (the caiman) it is now being housed at a zoo in cleethorpes im hoping to go look at its new enclosure tomorrow


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## CheloniaDude (Oct 3, 2011)

gav.b1984 said:


> Leaving Facebook... | Facebook


I know Jim from Wickid Pets he runs a :censor: good shop!


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