# Newbie looking for a realistic desert viv



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Hey
little advise guys and girls.
i currently have a viv measuring 40inch X 24inch so a pretty big tank! when i got my bearded dragon at 6 months old he was in wood chips substrate and just a few little orniments. now i know there is a lot of talk about different substrates for beardies and tbh i have never liked the chips will be changing it for calci sand.
at the moment he is a little slow and doesnt like to come out of his cave, i have the right heat from both the heat mat and the basking light but he still doesnt like to come out. im looking to make the viv a little more natural.
i already have the sand (as he loves to dig in it and curl up) and am looking to place some large flat pebbles around the tank along with a big piece of bamboo he used to love basking on. he doesnt have back feet so cant really climb that high so the bamboo was perfect. 
i was after some ideas to spruce the place up. i love the idea of real plants in there and wondered if there is any you would recommend? or shall i stick to fake grasses. 
here is a little picture of part of the tank as it looks today


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Aaaw poor boy. What happened to his feet? I would recommend child's play sand to calci sand as they can be inclined to eat calci sand, never a good thing. Just be sure he's a good aim so he doesn't swallow it by accident, good idea snyway removing the woodchip, it's the devil! Also heat mats are not a good idea with BD's as they cannot detect heat from below and there is therefore a risk of burning. Take a look at my viv build in my sig for some inspiration. I have live plants too. 

If you find he is using the hide all the time it may be a good idea to remove it, he will not be heating up appropriately or getting his uv if he's constantly hiding, they can become quite addicted to sleeping in their hides. How long have you had him? There's a chance he is trying to brumate which would coincide with the hiding!

Also I would recommend using digital thermometers rather than those dial ones. They can be rather inaccurate and temps are obviously pretty vital!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

The people at the shop said that his sibblings attacked him so had to be seperated, because of his feet and slight kink in his tail no one wanted him so they ended up taking him on. 
i hate to admit it but he is quite lazy and i feed him by hand so eating it shouldnt be an issue however its something i'll certainly keep an eye on thanks.
wow thats something i didnt know about heat mats?! you'd think that when pet shops give you starter packs they would mention this sort of thing, so they only get the heat from the basking light? see im always so scared he would get too cold but maybe he is too hot?
ill be taking his cave out tomorrow then! he will so hate me haha but he cant spend all the time in there. its starting to worry me if im honest 
i have such a big tank i could do a lot with it and make it into something really good. ill be having a peak at yours too


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> The people at the shop said that his sibblings attacked him so had to be seperated, because of his feet and slight kink in his tail no one wanted him so they ended up taking him on.
> i hate to admit it but he is quite lazy and i feed him by hand so eating it shouldnt be an issue however its something i'll certainly keep an eye on thanks.
> wow thats something i didnt know about heat mats?! you'd think that when pet shops give you starter packs they would mention this sort of thing, so they only get the heat from the basking light? see im always so scared he would get too cold but maybe he is too hot?
> ill be taking his cave out tomorrow then! he will so hate me haha but he cant spend all the time in there. its starting to worry me if im honest
> i have such a big tank i could do a lot with it and make it into something really good. ill be having a peak at yours too


Yeah I know, pet shops are unfortunately notorious for giving out bad information. Either out of ignorance or just to make a few £! They only need a basking light yes. Maybe he is too hot and if you're asking that question then I worry you haven't been given the required info. Is your heat bulb on a thermostat for starters? What are your temps? You should have an accurate reading of your basking temp (the hottest part directly under your heat bulb), your hot side ambient temp (middle of the side wall in the hot side) and your cool side ambient temp (middle of the side wall in cool side). These should really be measured with digital thermometers but in the meantime we will have to do with what you have got! I am going to bed now and will help tomorrow if you need it but in the meantime I will leave you with this. 

Your basking temp should be between 105f-115f (41-46c) as a rough guide, this will do for now and I will explain how to dial it in exactly depending on your BD tomorrow unless someone explains before. Your ambients temps should then be roughly 35c(95f) in the hot side and 25c(75) in the cool side.

Sorry for the rushed help, as said someone will hopefully help more if not I will tomorrow.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

That's ok, I'm really grateful for the help.
Sounds like I need a lot of it! Just want to make my beardie happier and healthier.
Ill explain what i can now and add pics in the morning so you can see whats in there.
No the bulb isn't on a thermostat but there is one on the wall next to it.
As I mentioned there is a heat mat (which i now know i don't need) on the right hand side of the tank under the basking light, it's normally between 100-120f, the cool side is around 80f. 

Thanks again for helping


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Carrie86 said:


> That's ok, I'm really grateful for the help.
> Sounds like I need a lot of it! Just want to make my beardie happier and healthier.
> Ill explain what i can now and add pics in the morning so you can see whats in there.
> No the bulb isn't on a thermostat but there is one on the wall next to it.
> ...


First let me say :welcome: to the forum Carrie86
fine looking beardie you have it's a shame about his legs the poor thing.

You won't go wrong with the advice tomcannon gives you and his vivarium background is awesome you will get a few ideas once you have seen it, also pendragons viv build is good to see as well, im building my own viv at the moment and tom and pendragons builds have inspired me.

BTW i put one of these in the vivarium they are a very good thermometer, and they let you know in one look what the temps are in the cool end and hot end of the viv
TIMEX DIGITAL IN/ OUTDOOR THERMOMETER HYGROMETER, CLOCK: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks 
I had a peak at their vivs and they are fantastic, certainly the sort of thing I'd love to do with mine! You're doing one too? Cool I'll certainly be watching alone the way  iv never seen viv set ups like I have on here, they're gorgeous. My tank isn't long but is high so I have a lot to work with and certainly want one of these back grounds!
So iv got just a couple of pics of the lighting and hearing situation. Kenny is as always still in the cave so I'm going to take it out while I'm at work for 4 hours so he can get some much needs sunlight.





































And finally a grumpy dragon after I took him out the cave!


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> That's ok, I'm really grateful for the help.
> Sounds like I need a lot of it! Just want to make my beardie happier and healthier.
> Ill explain what i can now and add pics in the morning so you can see whats in there.
> No the bulb isn't on a thermostat but there is one on the wall next to it.
> ...


Good morning Carrie. So I think you will agree with me that the most important thing you can get right to help your beardy is the temperatures in his vivarium. So firstly I'm afraid you are going to have to buy some digital thermometers and most importantly a DIMMING thermostat, not a pulse thermostat or mat stat, it must be a dimming stat. I would recommend the habistat dimming thermostat, others also speak highly of the microclimate range although I haven't used these myself. Take a look and see which you want, just remember it must be a dimmer! The reason being is a dimming stat will dim your bulb whereas a pulse will do just that, pulse the bulb on/off, disco! 

A thermostat is used to regulate the heat that the bulb is outputting, without this something could go wrong in your vivarium and you could end up overheating your beardy which could be fatal, a thermostat is basically a fail safe so you can be confident that your vivarium is the correct temp whether you are there with it or not. Digital thermometers are then just as important as without these you are probably reading the temps wrong anyhow! 

When you have your thermostat and digital thermometers then I am happy to help you set it up correctly if you have any questions or you can take a look here at a thread that I and others covered recently, it explains a few methods and why we each use them so you can make your own choice on how to do it. 

For now though let's set it up as best as we can with what we have got (but please don't ignore the advice on the thermostat and digital thermometers, despite what any shop may have told you they are extremely necessary, on a hot day it will get very hot in that viv if you can't dim the bulb!).

Lets start with the basking spot. Put one of your dial thermometers under the basking light and leave it for 15 minutes then get back to me with the temperature reading and we'll go from there! I would explain it all now but you are online I think and it would be simpler if we did it "live" so to speak!


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh and regarding turning your vivarium in to a realistic desert theme I can build you something if you like. If you take a look at the link in my signature you will see that I have started making hides and basking rocks, etc to sell. I can make you basically anything you want, find me a picture or draw me one and I'll create it! Whether you just wanted a few pieces of furniture to fit in your viv or a whole 3D build I can do both!

Let me know if you're interested but firstly let's get the boys temps right! :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

I certainly won't be ignoring the advise. Iv got to work till 2 today so will be more useful when I'm home but this is a great start Thank you. I'll go online and find a dimming thermostat for him when I'm "working"
Well so far after 12 mins the temp is only up to 89?! Shockingly low. But like you say chances are its not correct.


Oh and I'd like a 3d set up. The back and sides are just so boring and want something more real, once the heating is sorted (as that really is the best thing) I'll think about what I'm after. Your set up is what I had originally pictured in my head just never looked as good as yours! The work really is fantastic.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> I certainly won't be ignoring the advise. Iv got to work till 2 today so will be more useful when I'm home but this is a great start Thank you. I'll go online and find a dimming thermostat for him when I'm "working"
> Well so far after 12 mins the temp is only up to 89?! Shockingly low. But like you say chances are its not correct.
> 
> 
> Oh and I'd like a 3d set up. The back and sides are just so boring and want something more real, once the heating is sorted (as that really is the best thing) I'll think about what I'm after. Your set up is what I had originally pictured in my head just never looked as good as yours! The work really is fantastic.


Ok, leave it there all day and get back to me when you get home. Any chance you could grab a digital thermometer when your out? P&H or any reptile shop will have them. You see if it is that low then he will not be able to digest his food properly! 

Thanks very much for your comments, I really am quite happy with it but it did take a lot of work! I'm sure we could sort something for your vivarium to make you both very happy but like you said his temps are the first thing to sort! Have a good day at work and we'll speak later (although I won't be on until after the formula 1!). :2thumb:


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

You may also want to grab another higher wattage bulb seeing as the bulb you have now doesn't appear to be getting hot enough (although unsure as using dial thermometers). Any household spot bulb from tesco, b&q, homebase etc will do, they are exactly the same as the branded reptile ones just half the price. If you can get your hands on a screw halogen spot bulb then they are even better, higher output and last longer. Just remember as halogens are hotter you'll probably be ok with a 60w halogen as it'll be hotter than the 60w spot you have now! Confusing I'm sorry, basically you don't want to get home and see that it's not getting up to temp and have to go out again and buy another bulb so try and get a 70-80w spot or a 60w halogen. :2thumb:

Is either that or you need to get your basking spot closer to the bulb so it gets hotter but I can't see how you can raise your basking spot, which I assume is the bamboo root you have under the light?


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

I have to say he isnt eating very much at the momment and thats one of the main reasons i signed up as i need to get him storted and assumed it was to do with the heat. he has a bayonet bulb so ill have to see if i can find a halogen bulb that will fit. it does tend to get hotter then that tbh but ill get another bulb just encase then check on the temp when im home. 
bulbs are always so expensive and didnt realise that normal spot ones do the same?! ill see if i can get my hands on a digital thermometer today.

i was thinking that when the set up starts i would raise the bottom so he can be closer to the basking light, either thjat or somehow modify the bamboo but unsure how.

dammit i forgot the F1 was on, works double pay so couldnt really turn it down :lol2:


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> I have to say he isnt eating very much at the momment and thats one of the main reasons i signed up as i need to get him storted and assumed it was to do with the heat. he has a bayonet bulb so ill have to see if i can find a halogen bulb that will fit. it does tend to get hotter then that tbh but ill get another bulb just encase then check on the temp when im home.
> bulbs are always so expensive and didnt realise that normal spot ones do the same?! ill see if i can get my hands on a digital thermometer today.
> 
> i was thinking that when the set up starts i would raise the bottom so he can be closer to the basking light, either thjat or somehow modify the bamboo but unsure how.
> ...


How long have you had him? It can take a while for them to settle in, usually at least a few weeks and his appetite will be suppressed during this time so I wouldn't threat if you've only had him a month or less. 

You may have difficulty finding a bayonet halogen, not sure if I've seen them. If that's the case just get a more powerful spot. Yup, they are all exactly the same unless you get one of those ones that output uv at the same time but they're like £30+ and unnecessary if you have the correct uv anyway. That's a fair point, what make is your uv tube and how old is it? It looks to me like a t8 tube which therefore lasts 6 months tops!

I find tiles are good to raise the floor a little if you have any lying around or can get your hands on some, you can usually get a damaged pack of tiles cheap from homebase, wickes, etc, a few quid I think.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

well i have had him just over 2 years now! normally he is ok but now and then stops eating for a few weeks. he still eats the lettuce i put in but isnt interested in the crickets. Again i put this down the the temp in the tank.
the uv tube has been in there since i got him! and never been changed. its Says on it namiba terra replux F30W. 
i have a look into the tiles thanks. the tank is going to be quite heavy by the time they are in so as its only on a desk ill move it too the floor, that will be ok for him im sure.

so is this what i need first of all?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Euro-Rep-Ha...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1352023706&sr=1-1


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> well i have had him just over 2 years now! normally he is ok but now and then stops eating for a few weeks. he still eats the lettuce i put in but isnt interested in the crickets. Again i put this down the the temp in the tank.
> the uv tube has been in there since i got him! and never been changed. its Says on it namiba terra replux F30W.
> i have a look into the tiles thanks. the tank is going to be quite heavy by the time they are in so as its only on a desk ill move it too the floor, that will be ok for him im sure.
> 
> ...


Oh gosh! In that case it needs replacing ASAP! It won't be giving off any uv at all and this will most likely be why he isn't acting as he should. This is now another major priority as he will suffer from uv deficiencies such as metabolic bone disease. It can be fatal, I'm amazed he isn't showing signs already. 

If money isn't an option then I would purchase a brand new kit, Arcadias T5 is by far the best product available at the moment, but you will need the whole setup for this. Your viv is also a little small for a fully grown adult as they require floor space, a minimum 4ft wide is recommended and yours looks like a 3ft'er? If I were you I'd purchase this uv. It is a 3ft Arcadia T5, everything you need. You can mount this in your 3ft viv for now. Then purchase a 4ft vivarium (good excuse to kit it out as you wish with a new build) then put the 3ft T5 unit in to this. Mount it in the hot side so the light naturally drops in to shade in the cool end, this is called a photogradient and helps your beardy regulate his temps properly.

It looks like it may be an expensive month for you but your beardy will appreciate it no end and you'll have the satisfaction knowing that he is getting the best he can.


----------



## crisscoyy1973 (Oct 26, 2012)

Morning all, hope everyone is well this wet windy morning :sad:

If you were having problems finding a bayonet spot you could always see if a pet shop or electrical shop sold something like this below:

B22 - E27 Bayonet Screw Lamp Light Bulb Socket Base Cap Converter Adaptor Holder | eBay


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

thank you for this.
i think im going to take the plunge and get a whole new set up tank and all. stick it on the credit card, id rarther get it all sorted ASAP for his sake. it sounds like the whole thing is wrong and im really concerened for his health now. iv just had a look at the symptoms and he already has a couple of them!! i hope with your help i can hopefully get him sorted and back to better health.
your right about the tank, it has the height when infact he needs the lengh and floor space a hell of a lot more. 
Do you know of any websites that sell the whole set up? the viv and the lot.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Good choice! It's a shame you have been sold a rep with poor knowledge (I don't mean to be rude) as you could have prevented a lot of these issues and spending more money if they had been more helpful to start with. It would appear that you want to do the best by him anyway which is more than can be said for some! :2thumb:

I tend to by vivs from viv builders or source then locally and cheap bit seeing as you just want to get it done ASAP (which is for the best in this scenario) then I'd recommend looking online for the best 4x2x2 or bigger you can find. Swell reptiles (where I linked the t5) do vivs also I believe so this may be a good place to start. If you ordered the uv and viv from them you could put the uv in your 3fter while you sort the other viv to how you want it then transplant the uv over like I suggested earlier. 

It's a good job you came on here really! Once you have your uv sorted and he's back to how he should be it may be a good idea to go for a vet visit to check up on his MBD and see what they can do to help with this but the T5 and proper supplementation (I recommend repashy calcium plus) will help him no end. If its just early signs of MBD it may be reversible. If not at least you'll stop it in its tracks before it gets too serious. 

Anyway F1's starting and you should be working! Haha.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

tbh i blame the shop but mostly myself, i thought Kenny was ok but recently iv been worrying. never take advice from pet shops and people that think they no it all! (of course not directed at anyone here) best thing i did was seek advice from here and i thank you.

Ok so after being at work all morning i come home and see kenny in the shade of the bamboo and the temp is only 98f!!! 

iv been looking at swell reptiles and found the following.

Dimming Thermostat

Digital thermometer

Arcadia Complete UV Light Kit: Desert T5 24w for 24" viv

so are these the things i need to be buying for a corrct set up? is there anything else im missing?

also, sorry for all the questions Tom, is this viv too small? i like this one but is it too tall, one thing i thought with mine is theres a lot of wasted space at the top.

VivExotic VX48 48" Vivarium Winchester Oak

or this one? this one is under 4ft though,

VivExotic Viva Terrestrial Vivarium Extra Large Oak 45"


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

You'd be better off with this thermostat as it allows for higher temps associated with bearded dragons. That thermometer is fine although you can get them much cheaper from eBay and they do the same job but if you'd rather order from the same place then that one is fine. 

You want the 3ft uv not the 2ft one. 

Either of those vivs will do, the second isn't quite 4ft though as you said so it may be a better idea to go for the first one, cheaper too, I've owned that exact viv in the past, nothing wrong with it at all.

Edit: that's strange, your link says 24" T5 but it opens to a page with the 36" tube! Just be sure you are buying the 36" one that you linked!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

you are right i have found a cheaper one from ebay 
so iv now got everything we spoke about except for the T5 which is the most important thing!! grrrr. in stock in two days but im lookin to see if anywhere else online stock it. if i have to wait then ill get a uv bulb just so hes at least getting some UV.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> you are right i have found a cheaper one from ebay
> so iv now got everything we spoke about except for the T5 which is the most important thing!! grrrr. in stock in two days but im lookin to see if anywhere else online stock it. if i have to wait then ill get a uv bulb just so hes at least getting some UV.


Awesome, looks like you're getting there! :2thumb: :no1:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

i coudnt have done it without your help! :2thumb:

just hope i can get this UV quick then can start fixing to the old viv while i take my time setting up the new home.
hope you are ready for lots of questions in the future haha.

still cant get over how wrong i was about so much but least i know better now.
so no heat mat hey? how do they retain heat in the night? iv noticed you have a dim blue light on yours.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> i coudnt have done it without your help! :2thumb:
> 
> just hope i can get this UV quick then can start fixing to the old viv while i take my time setting up the new home.
> hope you are ready for lots of questions in the future haha.
> ...


That's quite alright. I wouldn't know half I do if it weren't for this place. No heatmat, it is unnecessary and dangerous. You don't need any night time heat (unless you live in an igloo!). It's gets to below 0 in the wild of Australia during winter and our insulated homes will never drop to a dangerous temp. Some people say night temps should never drop below 20 but its a load of :censor:, its actually beneficial for a beardies temps to drop during night, warmer temps can keep them restless. The blue light I have is a simple LED system (Arcadia Moonlight) it is for viewing pleasure only and emits no heat. So to clarify, no night time heat, all lights should be off.

Enjoy the forum, its a great source of knowledge and you can never learn too much so keep reading!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

hes me thinking he would get cold at night when he actually needs to be. 

ahh so thats what it is, i think it looks fantastic in the tank and your BD doesnt seem to have a problem sleeping 

so as soon as that UV kit is in stock ill be getting that too, for the moment i have located a spare UV bulb that my friend has lent me so least he'll have some good rays. 
once the tank and everything comes ill be asking for assistance in setting it up. will do a little thread on it :2thumb: ill take my time sorting the new setup but as long as the new heat is in the old one i know kenny will be safe


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> hes me thinking he would get cold at night when he actually needs to be.
> 
> ahh so thats what it is, i think it looks fantastic in the tank and your BD doesnt seem to have a problem sleeping
> 
> ...


Yeah, use the thermostat in your old setup (ask for setup help if need be) while your sorting your new setup and then swap it over. I'm sure I've already linked it on this thread (?) but this thread will give you all the help you need to set it up I'd imagine, as you said you can ask questions if need be. : victory:


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Carrie86 said:


> you are right i have found a cheaper one from ebay
> so iv now got everything we spoke about except for the T5 which is the most important thing!! grrrr. in stock in two days but im lookin to see if anywhere else online stock it. if i have to wait then ill get a uv bulb just so hes at least getting some UV.


Nice one carrie, glat you got it sorted, tom is a great bloke and will allways help if you need it, as will any member on hear, joining this forum was th ebest thing i did.



tomcannon said:


> That's quite alright. I wouldn't know half I do if it weren't for this place. No heatmat, it is unnecessary and dangerous. You don't need any night time heat (unless you live in an igloo!). It's gets to below 0 in the wild of Australia during winter and our insulated homes will never drop to a dangerous temp. Some people say night temps should never drop below 20 but its a load of :censor:, its actually beneficial for a beardies temps to drop during night, warmer temps can keep them restless. The blue light I have is a simple LED system (Arcadia Moonlight) it is for viewing pleasure only and emits no heat. So to clarify, no night time heat, all lights should be off.
> 
> Enjoy the forum, its a great source of knowledge and you can never learn too much so keep reading!


 
I agree if it wasnt for this forum and you giving me some help and ideas i would have been lost :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

rexob said:


> Nice one carrie, glat you got it sorted, tom is a great bloke and will allways help if you need it, as will any member on hear, joining this forum was th ebest thing i did.


Thank you  I feel a little more relaxed that iv ordered all the right stuff now I can't wait for it to get here so I can get him sorted and make him a happy dragon plus I get to look at a lovely new viv. It scares me to think if I hadn't come here what would happen to my dragon?!!!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Just had an email from Swell Reptiles and everything is on its way!! whoop! quite excited.
Kenny has also come out of his cave and eaten some letuce for the first time in weeks. Maybe the temp UV bulb i have in there has helped, or maybe he knew that he has a new set up coming! 

anyway now to pick peoples brains about lights 
This is the viv i have ordered.

VivExotic VX48 48" Vivarium Winchester Oak
Im in the process of ordering this 
Arcadia Complete UV Light Kit: Desert T5 24w for 24" viv this is actually the 36'' one but link says 24 for some reason.

however its out of stock so still trying to get hold of it.
What id like to know now is about the basking light. im looking for halogen bulbs but the mount i have isnt a screw fitting so ill change it for one that fits.
what bulb watt do you recommend and what fittings shall i use?


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Just had an email from Swell Reptiles and everything is on its way!! whoop! quite excited.
> Kenny has also come out of his cave and eaten some letuce for the first time in weeks. Maybe the temp UV bulb i have in there has helped, or maybe he knew that he has a new set up coming!
> 
> anyway now to pick peoples brains about lights
> ...


You could always order the T5 from somewhere else but didn't you say it was in stock in a day or two? Buy ceramic holders from eBay. These are perfect and the exact ones I use. :2thumb:

Good question about wattage bulb. Most would normally use between 60-100w in a 4x2x2 (depending how they set it up) but that's spot bulbs so a 100w halogen would be far too hot. Try and get a 60w I would, it will most likely be a case of trial and error though and you may have to buy a different one but then you'll have a spare in case you have a blow out and can't get another. 

Start with a 60w and we'll go from there. When your are creating your build for the new viv make sure you basking spot can be lowered or raised so you can set your temps properly. There are always ways of sorting your temps without touching the basking spot but it is often easier especially if you aren't entirely sure what your doing! 

Hope all that helps, I'm jealous, it's a great feeling before your sorting a fresh new install!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> You could always order the T5 from somewhere else but didn't you say it was in stock in a day or two? Buy ceramic holders from eBay. These are perfect and the exact ones I use. :2thumb:
> 
> Good question about wattage bulb. Most would normally use between 60-100w in a 4x2x2 (depending how they set it up) but that's spot bulbs so a 100w halogen would be far too hot. Try and get a 60w I would, it will most likely be a case of trial and error though and you may have to buy a different one but then you'll have a spare in case you have a blow out and can't get another.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that  yeah the site says in stock in a couple days so I'll hold off till then only because kenny has a uv bulb now so know he's getting the good stuff.

I have tried looking for the T5 but can't seem to find anywhere that has it, either that or I'm looking in the wrong place haha.

I notice you have 2 lights in yours, is that because it's so big, or just your preference? Having a 4ft viv would I need the same sort of thing and if so get a 75w for the main light and a lower one for the other light?
I remember you saying the basking bulbs can be bought from anywhere and not just special reptile ones, is this the same for halogen? 
Your poor brain and all my questions! Haha

I'm very excited to have a proper set up for him. Seeing him healthy and happy is the main thing for me.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Also when you got the ceramic holders did you buy the cable separate and the plug then wire them together


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Thanks for that  yeah the site says in stock in a couple days so I'll hold off till then only because kenny has a uv bulb now so know he's getting the good stuff.
> 
> I have tried looking for the T5 but can't seem to find anywhere that has it, either that or I'm looking in the wrong place haha.
> 
> ...


That's just because of the size of it. I probably could have done with a single but I thought two would distribute the heat better. You will only need a single heat source. It's the same for halogens. All they do is give off heat. 

Haha, honestly it's fine, I don't mind in the slightest!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Iv ordered myself a ceramic holder and me and mum are off to wickes on wends after work so will look out for a halogen bulb  I'm terrible with bulb buying but hopefully I'll get the right one.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Iv ordered myself a ceramic holder and me and mum are off to wickes on wends after work so will look out for a halogen bulb  I'm terrible with bulb buying but hopefully I'll get the right one.


To be honest your better off buying alone, it will be cheaper. I'm about to go to work but when I get home later I will search out a couple of good halogens for you.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks  
Have a good day at work.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

I meant "online" earlier not "alone"! You probably though I was saying not to go shopping with your mum! :lol2:

These I believe are the ones you will want to fit the ceramic holder I linked you to earlier. Unfortunately I can't seem to find them as singles for much cheaper online once you have paid p&p, unless you want to buy the 6 I linked as it would appear they will end at a bargain price! Not sure what you would do with 6 though so you may be better off purchasing from a shop after all, I believe I bought mine from homebase.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> I meant "online" earlier not "alone"! You probably though I was saying not to go shopping with your mum! :lol2:
> 
> These I believe are the ones you will want to fit the ceramic holder I linked you to earlier. Unfortunately I can't seem to find them as singles for much cheaper online once you have paid p&p, unless you want to buy the 6 I linked as it would appear they will end at a bargain price! Not sure what you would do with 6 though so you may be better off purchasing from a shop after all, I believe I bought mine from homebase.


I hoped you meant online otherwise I was going to ask what my mum did to upset you haha. 
I'll keep an eye out for some tomorrow night, like you say 6 would last a life time and I might need to change the wattage. 
Got my viv and dimmer today along with my eBay thermometer! The holder has also been dispatched whoop.
So I now ask, did you buy special heat proof wires when you wired up the holders? 
My old bayonet holder could be taken apart and the wires used I guess?

Reading the dimmer instructions it looks easy to set up, it's just finding where on earth to put the probe.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> I hoped you meant online otherwise I was going to ask what my mum did to upset you haha.
> I'll keep an eye out for some tomorrow night, like you say 6 would last a life time and I might need to change the wattage.
> Got my viv and dimmer today along with my eBay thermometer! The holder has also been dispatched whoop.
> So I now ask, did you buy special heat proof wires when you wired up the holders?
> ...


Oops, I probably should have mentioned heat proof cable, yes I would definitely recommend using this. It's simple enough to wire up so you could just use your old cabling. Haha, the old probe placement saga! This really is up to you, just read up and choose a method to try, you will probably end up tweaking it's position slightly to change temps anyway. As I said I am more than willing to help you set up when the time comes, I will even give you my number if its easier but I set it up with the probe near the centre slightly towards the cool end so this may not be the path you wish to take! You purchased the habistat high range dimming stat didn't you? If not it wouldn't be possible for you to place the probe directly under the heat source anyway as the stat wouldn't allow it to get up to a high enough temp. I recommended this stat as then you can place the probe wherever you choose.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> Oops, I probably should have mentioned heat proof cable, yes I would definitely recommend using this. It's simple enough to wire up so you could just use your old cabling. Haha, the old probe placement saga! This really is up to you, just read up and choose a method to try, you will probably end up tweaking it's position slightly to change temps anyway. As I said I am more than willing to help you set up when the time comes, I will even give you my number if its easier but I set it up with the probe near the centre slightly towards the cool end so this may not be the path you wish to take! You purchased the habistat high range dimming stat didn't you? If not it wouldn't be possible for you to place the probe directly under the heat source anyway as the stat wouldn't allow it to get up to a high enough temp. I recommended this stat as then you can place the probe wherever you choose.


That's good then, least I can re use the old cable 

Well until the 3d background and floor is made he will be sitting on tiles and sand so I'll have to figure out where to stick the probe. I'm thinking around the basking spot. Yes I got the high range one and like you say I can then put the probe wherever. I'll do some research and try a few spots.

And thank you, advice when setting up will be very helpful. you're a star


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> That's good then, least I can re use the old cable
> 
> Well until the 3d background and floor is made he will be sitting on tiles and sand so I'll have to figure out where to stick the probe. I'm thinking around the basking spot. Yes I got the high range one and like you say I can then put the probe wherever. I'll do some research and try a few spots.
> 
> And thank you, advice when setting up will be very helpful. you're a star


Yeah I'd recommend getting used to setting it up before building the background that way if the basking spot has to be fixed in to place (for example you can't raise or lower my basking log) then you will know roughly whether it will work in that position. Sorry if that doesn't make much sense, its hard to explain but you'll get the idea once you've done it yourself a few times.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Yeah that makes sence.
Managed to get a halogen bulb from homebase this morning whoop. have been looking at the lights and the wiring on your viv to get ideas on where the wires go etc, but of course ill be bugging you when i wire the lot up cuz n o doubt ill get stuck haha.


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Carrie86 said:


> Yeah that makes sence.
> Managed to get a halogen bulb from homebase this morning whoop. have been looking at the lights and the wiring on your viv to get ideas on where the wires go etc, but of course ill be bugging you when i wire the lot up cuz n o doubt ill get stuck haha.


 
Nice one Carrie, waiting with bated breath, to see the build :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

So the time has come, all the lighting has now been delivered! Whoop, so excited. 
So the questions now continue. 
Iv had a look at toms and can see roughly where everything should be but please do give me some help here people haha. so where the lights should be, how I wire up the thermostat and where's the best place for the spot. Iv also gone for an led for nighttime. Kenny is going to be sat on a mix of calci sand and tiles. The cave in his old tank might not go into the new viv cuz he may stay in it all the time. If it doesn't come what sort of shelter should I make him or doesn't he really need it. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Carrie86 said:


> So the time has come, all the lighting has now been delivered! Whoop, so excited.
> So the questions now continue.
> Iv had a look at toms and can see roughly where everything should be but please do give me some help here people haha. so where the lights should be, how I wire up the thermostat and where's the best place for the spot. Iv also gone for an led for nighttime. Kenny is going to be sat on a mix of calci sand and tiles. The cave in his old tank might not go into the new viv cuz he may stay in it all the time. If it doesn't come what sort of shelter should I make him or doesn't he really need it.
> 
> Thanks in advance


UV tube towards the hot end, basking lamps i tend to place equidistant from the front, back and one end. Thermostat into the socket, basking lamp into the thermostat and probe wherever you choose. Best bet with the stat probe is to have a good play with it, i.e. try putting it in the basking spot set to the temp you want, then test the temps in the basking spot and cold end, and the ambient temp in the hot end. With any luck you'll get pretty much the correct temps straight away, i've never worried about a few degrees out as long as the basking spot is hot enough and the cool end is cool enough. The ambient temps in the hot end will vary with where exactly you test the temp. 

Not essential to put a shelter per se, however I tend to give a few large rocks or branches that they can hide behind, and that provide a little shade. Its more for privacy to be honest though, I think sometimes they don't want to always be the center of attention 

LED's can go anywhere, i'm assuming they'll only be on for an hour or so?

I'd recommend childrens play sand over calci sand, calci sand has (according to a lot of reports and reviews, as well as my own personal experience) a much greater chance of causing impaction. It was initially made for aviary birds, but then banned for sale for them, so they remarketed it for reptiles. It is not proven to be safe, and in the vast majority of cases seems to be very unsafe.

Dave


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Ditto the above! Make sure you get pics up Carrie! :no1:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks 
So iv got everything wired up and went to switch it on to test the lights and all the lights work however the basking light flickers and buzzes and the light on the thermostat that says heat also flashes. Is there something wrong with it. I turned it off in fear or blowing the bulb.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Sorry my fault, just looked on the back of the bulb box and says not suitable for dimming! Now who's the dim one haha


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Sorry my fault, just looked on the back of the bulb box and says not suitable for dimming! Now who's the dim one haha


Haha, dim, I get it!!! :lol2:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

It's all up and working now I have the right bulb finally! testing temps at the mo and I have 79f in the cold around 85-90f in the middle and right at the top of the basking log it's 110f. This is with a 100w bulb, I tried a 60 and it wouldn't even get up to 80f.
So do these temps sound ok? I won't move kenny in till when I know all the temps are right.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> It's all up and working now I have the right bulb finally! testing temps at the mo and I have 79f in the cold around 85-90f in the middle and right at the top of the basking log it's 110f. This is with a 100w bulb, I tried a 60 and it wouldn't even get up to 80f.
> So do these temps sound ok? I won't move kenny in till when I know all the temps are right.


That sounds perfect! Whats your hot end temps? Just see how long she basks for, 110 could be too high, but I doubt it. :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

About 110f, it seems quite hot but hopefully it will be ok. Quite chuffed these temps are roughly about right 
Thank you so much for your help. I couldn't have done it without you


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Your basking temp is 110f but what's your ambient hot side temp (middle of side wall in hot end)? Hey, that's what we're here for! :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Sorry I believe it was 99f but I'll double check tomorrow. He's still in the old tank so like I say wont move him till everything is perfect or near as.
You've been a star, and I can't thank you enough. Learned so much from you and the whole forum.


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Nice one carrie semps dont sound to bad at all, looking forword to the pic's :2thumb:


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Sorry I believe it was 99f but I'll double check tomorrow. He's still in the old tank so like I say wont move him till everything is perfect or near as.
> You've been a star, and I can't thank you enough. Learned so much from you and the whole forum.


Interesting, 99f seems a little high in comparison to the 110f basking spot but I guess it depends on the distance between the two reading locations (basking spot and hot side wall). After double checking if those are the temps can you show me a picture of the complete setup. If your basking spot is 110 and the hot side is 99 then I assume your basking spot is rather far in to your hot end? You may want to move the basking spot slightly further towards the centre so the hot end ambient temp drops slightly to give a better gradient for your BD to regulate its temps properly. DON'T touch anything until you've verified those temps and showed us a pic and we'll go from there! I'm doing nothing today (woohoo!) so I will be here to help you if no one else can!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

I'm currently testing the temps in the hot end but this is where the basking log is atm. The temp reads 78f in the hot end and the thermometer is as far over as I can go.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks all good! :2thumb: clarify the numbers with us when your done!


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Still 110f on the basking spot. Just under 80f in the hot end (as far over as the prob will go) Jumps around 68-71f in the cool end and. How's that all sound? Just tidying up the wires now then I'll let the viv warm up and I should be ok to move him in.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Oh and also when the lights go off at night does the led come on then go off when the lights come back on again in the morning?


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> Still 110f on the basking spot. Just under 80f in the hot end (as far over as the prob will go) Jumps around 68-71f in the cool end and. How's that all sound? Just tidying up the wires now then I'll let the viv warm up and I should be ok to move him in.


That's fine, you have a good gradient there! Now to kit it out and make it look worthy of its performance! : victory:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Well kenny is like a new dragon, he's been running around everywhere, basking, digging and he's even managed to eat!! Then poo an hour later, something he's not done in about 8 weeks. 
He really does seem so much better and I can't get over how active he is.

Thank you to the forum and to all the members, specially you Tom, have learned a lot from you and I now have a happy and hopefully healthier dragon.

The tank is a little empty at the mo so I'll have to get the background made and make it look lovely for him 

Two more questions to end the day how often would you change the uv? And does your led stay on all night then go off when the main lights come on in the morning?


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Brilliant, he looks lovely, I love success stories! Arcadias tube are supposed to last 12 months. I however will be changing every 10-11 months just to be sure. Personally I don't have the LED's on all night, just about 2 hours after lights out and before lights on, this then allows a majority of night hours in complete darkness for your beardy, plus you won't be up the whole night to benefit from the LED's anyway... I assume!

What did you use as substrate in the end?


----------



## crisscoyy1973 (Oct 26, 2012)

Glad he's a happy chap, one lil thing i noticed it's nothing major but i think your vents in the back or round the wrong way, they need to be pushed in from inside out so he cant push them out. but looking good...


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> Brilliant, he looks lovely, I love success stories! Arcadias tube are supposed to last 12 months. I however will be changing every 10-11 months just to be sure. Personally I don't have the LED's on all night, just about 2 hours after lights out and before lights on, this then allows a majority of night hours in complete darkness for your beardy, plus you won't be up the whole night to benefit from the LED's anyway... I assume!
> 
> What did you use as substrate in the end?


Thanks, least I know when to change it, won't be making that mistake again any time soon!
I was hoping you'd say that because iv set it to stay on for 3 hours after lights out. 
well I don't sleep a lot however it's good for us both to have some complete darkness, works well for me cuz I'm scared of the dark so got myself a night light now! Haha.

I had already bought calci sand and I was a little worried but after watching him for ages he wasn't bothered by it. He licked the air and the ground as he first walked around but didn't munch on any of it. Couple of granules he may have eaten but it looked like nothing. I'll keep an eye on him for the time being though just encase.
I think when it comes to changing the substrate I'll go for play sand seeing as a lot of people have good reviews of it.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

crisscoyy1973 said:


> Glad he's a happy chap, one lil thing i noticed it's nothing major but i think your vents in the back or round the wrong way, they need to be pushed in from inside out so he cant push them out. but looking good...


That's a very good point I never spotted that! Thanks  I did put sealant round them so they wouldn't come loose however I do think I'll pull them off and put in the other way.


----------



## crisscoyy1973 (Oct 26, 2012)

lol, sorry just lil things like that catch my eye.. if you're building a background i'd leave it till then as you've got sealant on them...


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

It's ok glad someones got an eye for that sort of thing, I think I was too busy watching kenny running around, never seen him this active before. 
Be a while till I get the background started but Tis a good point and I may wait till then


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> It's ok glad someones got an eye for that sort of thing, I think I was too busy watching kenny running around, never seen him this active before.
> Be a while till I get the background started but Tis a good point and I may wait till then


Active is a good sign. Crazy what the T5 can do hey! Yup, be aware of that calci sand, I have heard terrible things! : victory:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

I couldn't believe the change, made me happy seeing him like that.
Yeah I'll be keeping a close eye on it, he never ate the woodchip or tried to eat anything else in the old tank so hopefully this will be ok.
Just for reference though how often would you change the substrate?


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Carrie86 said:


> I couldn't believe the change, made me happy seeing him like that.
> Yeah I'll be keeping a close eye on it, he never ate the woodchip or tried to eat anything else in the old tank so hopefully this will be ok.
> Just for reference though how often would you change the substrate?


It all depends on how often and thoroughly you spot clean and sift the sand. With my play sand I used to spot clean whenever he would poo and sift weekly. It would start to smell and I'd do a whole change about every 2 months.


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

kenny is looking well at home in his new viv carrie well done, as for substrate, yeah i have always used play sand myself, i did think of calci sand but once on hear and heard from other members like tom i stuck with playsand :2thumb:


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks guys 
everytime i look at him he makes me smile just because i know he is on the way up and hopfully hasnt got long term damage.

yeah ill keep an eye on it tom and i spot clean often and ill make sure the sand is well sifted and like you say once it starts to smell you know that its well over due so wont go leaving it for that long, specially now i have picked up some tips on how to actually look after the poor little guy. i feel bad that i didnt know all this stuff and that i have put his life in danger, since joining here i have learned a lot and luckily kenny seems to have recovered well. 
now he is eating iv been putting calcium on the bugs so least i know hes getting some good from it. 

rexob, as for the sand ill defo go for that when its due for a change, im guessing like any sand you rinse it well and sift then once dried put in the viv?


----------



## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Carrie86 said:


> Thanks guys
> everytime i look at him he makes me smile just because i know he is on the way up and hopfully hasnt got long term damage.
> 
> yeah ill keep an eye on it tom and i spot clean often and ill make sure the sand is well sifted and like you say once it starts to smell you know that its well over due so wont go leaving it for that long, specially now i have picked up some tips on how to actually look after the poor little guy. i feel bad that i didnt know all this stuff and that i have put his life in danger, since joining here i have learned a lot and luckily kenny seems to have recovered well.
> ...


 
Dont feel bad at all carrie, not you're fault imo any pet shop selling or giving advice for bearded dragons should first know what they are doing anyway, we have all learned thing on this forum it's the best thing i did joining like youreself..: victory:

as for the sand it should be ready to go streight from the bag,. :2thumb:


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

rexob said:


> Dont feel bad at all carrie, not you're fault imo any pet shop selling or giving advice for bearded dragons should first know what they are doing anyway, we have all learned thing on this forum it's the best thing i did joining like youreself..: victory:
> 
> as for the sand it should be ready to go streight from the bag,. :2thumb:


Yeah it's sterilised being playsand so doesn't really meed rinsing allthough it wont hurt. It does however tend to come slightly damp so I recommend drying it out first to keep humidity down.


----------



## Carrie86 (Nov 3, 2012)

its shocking what pet shops are like, just want to sell the stuff and think as long as they have a little light they will be fine which of course isnt the case. although there will be a few places out there with experienced members of staff that do care about the reptiles 

sounds like play sand is the one to go for next then :2thumb:


----------

