# Hop Farm Reptile Weekend (Kent)



## Athravan

Don't know if anyone has seen this but if you're local might be worth a look or a day out for the kids anyway 

Amazon to Outback Reptile Experience

*Saturday 17th to Sunday 18th May 2008*

Pythons, Alligators, Iguana's, Lizards, Frogs, Boa Constrictors, Spiders....

The Amazon to Outback Reptile Experience will be a unique display of reptiles, invertabrates and Amphibian. Hundreds of species will be on show at The Hop Farm 17 - 18 May creating our own animal kingdom with the sights, sounds and smells of a tropical rainforest. 

Experts will be on site giving feeding demonstrations and interactive educational presentations on each of the animals, showing the hunting behaviour of the American Alligator and husbandry techniques used for captive reptiles in the pet trade.

With this exceptional display of reptiles we hope to promote global wildlife conservation and spread awareness of ways to protect the animals.

Look Out For...

The American Alligator
Anaconda's
Dwarf Caiman
Iguana's
Burmese Pythons
Boa Constrictor's
Carpet Pythons
Alligator Snapping Turtles
And many more at The Amazon to Outback Reptile Experience


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## Crownan

Could be interesting


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## HS

This has been organised by the guy from Exotic Pets in Maidstone, I saw an article in the local paper about it.


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## sean k

*hop farm*

is this the hop farm in paddock wood?


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## declanjr

yer wooo i'm going hopefully a birthday treat for me dad as ts his birthday the 16th


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## sean k

*hop farm*

is this the hop farm in paddock wood?


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## Maureen Collinson

Yes Sean it is.  Here's the full address.

Mo. 


MAIN TELEPHONE: 01622 872068

The Hop Farm at the Kentish Oast Village
Paddock Wood, Tonbridge
Kent 
TN12 6PY


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## Maureen Collinson

Hi HS. 

Did the paper mentioned the names of any of the 'experts' that would be there handling, etc, over the 2 day event? 

Mo.


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## bendigo

may go, could be good, just realsied maureen is from medway -- woooooo


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## HS

Maureen Collinson said:


> Hi HS.
> 
> Did the paper mentioned the names of any of the 'experts' that would be there handling, etc, over the 2 day event?
> 
> Mo.


Sorry, I can't remember. I also can't find the article, I think it ended up as snake substrate.:whistling2:


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## Testudo Man

H.S. said:


> This has been organised by the guy from Exotic Pets in Maidstone, I saw an article in the local paper about it.


I saw the same article too...

The guy in question:whistling2:.........................................is called...





...Mark...T.T.8)


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## repti-mon

may possibly go, mite be quite a good day out...


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## Ruth

Is this the newspaper report you are referring to?

Your Local Kent News -Hop Farm event could bring Forgotten World to life

Hmmmmm, I've had dealings with two of those mentioned :banghead: 

Ruth


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## Maureen Collinson

Thats just made me feel :blowup:.

If I still go to this event, I will have to rely on my friends to hold me back. :2wallbang:. 

This event is run by 'experts'?????????????????????????? If thats the case say goodbye now to the 'hobby'.

Those poor animals. :blowup:


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## Testudo Man

Awwwwww Kent people unite...We probably know each other???

I know/have met at least one person on this thread:hmm:...T.T.8)


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## HS

Yes Ruth, that was the article.


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## Maureen Collinson

Instead of replying to each pm, I am placing a link here for those of you that would like a better insight into Iain Newby.

Please just click on the link below to a newspaper article.

Mo. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/18/npets118.xml


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## Crownan

Man am I lost. Whats the problems? I dont get it.

Sorry if im being thick :blush:


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## beefy

me to!:blush: was planing on going to be nosey


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## Rico

I think Ill go its only a 10 minute drive from my house.


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## gtm

Hop Farm is owned by a Mr Simon Hume-Kendall who is the illustrious proprietor of the 'Sport' stable of Newpapers. He also has a satellite channel called SportXXXGirls and a phone sex service. Worst even than that he is a big wheel in the Tunbridge Wells Conservative Association - Nice


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## Crownan

gtm said:


> Hop Farm is owned by a Mr Simon Hume-Kendall who is the illustrious proprietor of the 'Sport' stable of Newpapers. He also has a satellite channel called SportXXXGirls and a phone sex service. Worst even than that he is a big wheel in the Tunbridge Wells Conservative Association - Nice


How do these statements affect the reptile show? Bikini clad hotties being there too?

Or is it just that he has his fingers in all manor of pies. I still am not aware of the reasons people are beginning to slate this... :crazy:


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## gtm

Crownan said:


> How do these statements affect the reptile show? Bikini clad hotties being there too?
> 
> Or is it just that he has his fingers in all manor of pies. I still am not aware of the reasons people are beginning to slate this... :crazy:


Of course they don't:mf_dribble:. I have no objection to the porn baron thing but I will not put money into the pocket of chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Conservative Association!!!!


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## Crownan

gtm said:


> Of course they don't:mf_dribble:. I have no objection to the porn baron thing but I will not put money into the pocket of chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Conservative Association!!!!


Oky doke......any reasons why? Would help others to make their minds up?


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## gtm

Crownan said:


> Oky doke......any reasons why? Would help others to make their minds up?


I don't vote conservative:mf_dribble:


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## amazon

*Hop Farm Reptile Conservation Event*

The Hop Farm is no longer owned by Simon Hume Kendall. He sold out a few months back. 
What seems to be your problem Maureen. Through the grape vine I've heard all about you and your shenanigans. I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight. 
I would watch what you say and who you say it too. Looking back on your posts would show a good case for a libel hearing.

PROMOTING GLOBAL WILDLIFE CONSERVATION IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THIS HOBBY SHOULD SUPPORT. BRASH STATEMENTS LIKE "SAY GOODBYE TO OUR HOBBY" ARE IGNORANT AND DUMB FOUNDED. AS ONES DREAM OF ACTUALLY BEING IN A POSITION TO HELP MAKE A CHANGE WOULD APPEAR TO BE COMING TRUE, I SAY WE SUPPORT THE CAUSE INSTEAD OF HURLING JEALOUS SPITEFUL ABUSE.


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## gtm

amazon said:


> The Hop Farm is no longer owned by Simon Hume Kendall. He sold out a few months back.
> What seems to be your problem Maureen. Through the grape vine I've heard all about you and your shenanigans. I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight.
> I would watch what you say and who you say it too. Looking back on your posts would show a good case for a libel hearing.
> 
> PROMOTING GLOBAL WILDLIFE CONSERVATION IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THIS HOBBY SHOULD SUPPORT. BRASH STATEMENTS LIKE "SAY GOODBYE TO OUR HOBBY" ARE IGNORANT AND DUMB FOUNDED. AS ONES DREAM OF ACTUALLY BEING IN A POSITION TO HELP MAKE A CHANGE WOULD APPEAR TO BE COMING TRUE, I SAY WE SUPPORT THE CAUSE INSTEAD OF HURLING JEALOUS SPITEFUL ABUSE.


Wanted to make your 1st post one to be remembered then?


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## bosshogg

is this the same person that was Animal Planet the other month think it was Animal 24/7 or something?
Clare


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## amazon

Thats the chap although i have been informed that he will no longer be attending as he is filming with Sir David Attenborough. Instead Trevor Smith will be there. Trevor stars in a show called "wild thing" that is broadcasted to 70 countries world wide. The entire Hop farm event will be filmed for Animal Planet


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## bosshogg

amazon said:


> hats the chap although i have been informed that he will no longer be attending as he is filming with Sir David Attenborough. Instead Trevor Smith will be there. Trevor stars in a show called "wild thing" that is broadcaster to 70 countries world wide. The entire Hop farm event will be filmed for Animal Planet


thought it was the same chap didn't put reps over in a good light from what i remember. is this place going to be an education place, with school trips and talks ect ect?

Sorry i am very nosey :blush:


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## amazon

He is all about conservation and dead against wild caught stock.

The event is all about education, conservation and the means that we can take to make a change.


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## pam b

Are you part of the organisation of this event Amazon?
Would seem so from your posts?


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## Chris Newman

amazon said:


> He is all about conservation and dead against wild caught stock.
> 
> The event is all about education, conservation and the means that we can take to make a change.


I have no idea who’s being referred to. However, statements such as “_He is all about conservation and dead against wild caught stock”_ is alarming, genuine conservations support the concept of ‘sustainable utilizations’. Being dead against wild caught stock is usually the preserve of ‘protectionists’ – not conservationists!


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## Maureen Collinson

amazon said:


> The Hop Farm is no longer owned by Simon Hume Kendall. He sold out a few months back.
> What seems to be your problem Maureen. Through the grape vine I've heard all about you and your shenanigans. I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight.
> I would watch what you say and who you say it too. Looking back on your posts would show a good case for a libel hearing.
> 
> PROMOTING GLOBAL WILDLIFE CONSERVATION IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THIS HOBBY SHOULD SUPPORT. BRASH STATEMENTS LIKE "SAY GOODBYE TO OUR HOBBY" ARE IGNORANT AND DUMB FOUNDED. AS ONES DREAM OF ACTUALLY BEING IN A POSITION TO HELP MAKE A CHANGE WOULD APPEAR TO BE COMING TRUE, I SAY WE SUPPORT THE CAUSE INSTEAD OF HURLING JEALOUS SPITEFUL ABUSE.



Well Hello Amazon, 

I really seem to have rattled someone's cage here:hmm: I don't quite know whether or not to take this as a compliment. You see, I had not realized that even today, an opinion placed by me on a forum, would still carry so much weight behind it, even though I have taken a back seat re the forums for a few years now, and so am not so well known today. This leads me to believe we know each other already, hence the concern, but surely if I am spouting crap, then no need for concern, but yet there is, and I have been singled out too. Good one that. Never mind the other innuendo's, but we must do something about Maureen. That makes me even more interested now.

Before I go on, I note that you have chosen to hide behind a name, whilst addressing me, which is a coward's way of handling things when you have chosen to come out with the RSPCA comment above. I now ask you to back up your comment above, by placing the link to the site you refer to above on here for all to go to, including myself as it's the first I have heard of it, and if it's truly as you are indicating, then surely I would have known about it?

When it comes to conservation, I am very much for it, so don't even go there please. It's a poor attempt at trying to get back at me for having a personal opinion about certain so called 'experts' being involved, which I consider to be a very inaccurate statement to have made, and I stand by that even now with regards to the article in the paper as it then read. You choose to stay in hiding, but by your words here, I assume you are representing someone involved with the project, maybe even your hidden self and with this in mind, I now say to you, that if you, or others wish to take me to court for 'libel' re my comment about the 'hobby' being doomed if in the hands of those so called experts, then please go ahead, as it would give me the perfect opportunity to have certain facts placed out there in the 'media' circle, that I could back up if so required.

My views on Trevor Smith in case you are interested, are totally different, and Trevor has my utmost respect, and yes I do consider him to be an 'expert'.

I will finish now, but remind you to please put the link here for all, myself included, to be able to go and look at. 

I will accept if you choose not to add your real name in your next post, but will not respect you for it, as I always believe that if your confident about what you are saying and doing, and have nothing to hide, then you will identify yourself when making such posts as yours, just as I chose not to hide my true thoughts and feelings, and so posted using my 'real name'.

We shall see.

Maureen.


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## Berber King

I dont know what the issue is with this place/event but would just like to say that Trevor Smith most certainly is a very well respected and knowledgeable man in his field,one of the best.(i have no connection to any of this but know Trevor and his brother well).


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## rocco

I second you Berber. Trevor Smith is without a doubt one of the best in the field.


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## rocco

Thats an interesting quote from Chris. which leads to my question.

Who thinks that it acceptable for wild caught species to be imported into this (or any) country for the benefit of the pet trade?

Thanks


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## Chris Newman

rocco said:


> Thats an interesting quote from Chris. which leads to my question.
> 
> Who thinks that it acceptable for wild caught species to be imported into this (or any) country for the benefit of the pet trade?
> 
> Thanks


There will always be those opposed to the trade in wild animals, both pro and anti keepers. However, sustainable utilisation is a highly beneficial conservation tool recognised by most serious conservation bodies, such as WWF. Personally I find it somewhat hypercritical if keepers are opposed to such trade as the animal they keep were at some point from the wild!


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## pam b

I fear a link will not be forcoming, i asked for a link via PM twice this morning, the first he deliberately misunderstood and the second was ignored when i stated plainly EXTACTLY what it was i required, but frankly the first one was plain enough!!!


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## Athravan

I just thought it would be nice to post a thread for people to take their kids for a day out... not sure how it exploded to this!


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## Fixx

Maureen Collinson said:


> Instead of replying to each pm, I am placing a link here for those of you that would like a better insight into Iain Newby.
> 
> Please just click on the link below to a newspaper article.
> 
> Mo.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/18/npets118.xml



*"Alligator alert as dumped pets survive in wild*


By David Sapsted
Last Updated: 7:44pm BST 17/10/2004


Record numbers of exotic animals, many of them dangerous, are being abandoned by owners who cannot cope.
An animal rescue group said yesterday that a flood of dangerous reptiles was being brought into the country, often illegally, and that many were flourishing in the wild.
Iain Newby runs the Dangerous Wild Animal Rescue Facility (Dwarf), which has taken in 2,500 exotic animals since it was formed seven years ago.

He said venomous spiders, snakes, scorpions and even alligators were proving adept at surviving after being dumped.
He receives up to 15 calls a day to catch creatures or from people asking for help with pets they cannot handle.
Mr Newby, 37, who runs Dwarf with his girfriend, Lisa Tremble, 30, from their home in Great Wakering, Essex, said many people bought dangerous animals for the wrong reasons.
"They buy rottweiler dogs because it makes them look big," he said. "In the same way they buy alligators as status symbols."
Among the 200 creatures he keeps at his home is a cayman alligator called Cedric, which a teenage boy swapped for his two piranhas on the internet, thinking it was a lizard.
Last year he rescued five caymans that were being used for racing on an internet gambling site.
In the past year Dwarf has received calls to capture 20 poisonous black widow spiders that arrived in freight deliveries from America.
Mr Newby has also been called to catch a dwarf rattlesnake owned by an unlicensed keeper. The snake can launch itself off the ground in a strike that can prove fatal unless anti-venom is not administered immediately.
Although Mr Newby tries to find new owners for the rescued animals, he keeps about 200 at his home. They include alligators, iguanas, water dragons, a common buzzard, Burmese pythons, Californian king snakes and poisonous cane toads.
He said: "There should be a licensing system for dangerous animals so that owners can be educated and provided with care sheets and councils can track down the owners of escaped or dumped animals."
The RSPCA has called on the Government to introduce welfare controls for the trade in exotic pets to replace the outdated 1951 Pet Animals Act."



Right I have read the article, what's the problem Maureen?


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## glidergirl

The Mighty Boosh are doing a one day 'festival' at Hop Farm in July, I don't care who owns the place, that is something I won't be missing (hopefully).

All hail The Mighty Boosh :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:


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## Fangio

amazon said:


> I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight.


I believe Maureen and others (including myself in this post) have asked you to back up your statement with a link. I've googled "Maureen Collinson" and can find NOTHING untoward.


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## pam b

I have a question for Mark, either of them, presumably this event will be a fund raiser for this Edan type project mentioned in the earlier news article, you'll presumably be looking for sponsors as funds (according the article) are still needing to be raised?

I found this article dating back to 2002, what happened to that project and its secured £5million fund?

Hatch a good idea from your pet subject. | Europe Intelligence Wire (October, 2002)


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## sahunk

i might come down for a birthday treat on the 18th! Does anyone know how long it is from swansea to kent?


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## Grakky

sahunk said:


> i might come down for a birthday treat on the 18th! Does anyone know how long it is from swansea to kent?


on the train took me - 

Swansea - london = between 3 1/2 - 7 hours (there were delays on the way there)

London - Kent = anywhere between 10 mins to two hours


Basically a bit of a way lol


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## Storm Python

Fixx said:


> *"Alligator alert as dumped pets survive in wild*
> 
> 
> By David Sapsted
> Last Updated: 7:44pm BST 17/10/2004
> 
> 
> Record numbers of exotic animals, many of them dangerous, are being abandoned by owners who cannot cope.
> An animal rescue group said yesterday that a flood of dangerous reptiles was being brought into the country, often illegally, and that many were flourishing in the wild.
> Iain Newby runs the Dangerous Wild Animal Rescue Facility (Dwarf), which has taken in 2,500 exotic animals since it was formed seven years ago.
> 
> He said venomous spiders, snakes, scorpions and even alligators were proving adept at surviving after being dumped.
> He receives up to 15 calls a day to catch creatures or from people asking for help with pets they cannot handle.
> Mr Newby, 37, who runs Dwarf with his girfriend, Lisa Tremble, 30, from their home in Great Wakering, Essex, said many people bought dangerous animals for the wrong reasons.
> "They buy rottweiler dogs because it makes them look big," he said. "In the same way they buy alligators as status symbols."
> Among the 200 creatures he keeps at his home is a cayman alligator called Cedric, which a teenage boy swapped for his two piranhas on the internet, thinking it was a lizard.
> Last year he rescued five caymans that were being used for racing on an internet gambling site.
> In the past year Dwarf has received calls to capture 20 poisonous black widow spiders that arrived in freight deliveries from America.
> Mr Newby has also been called to catch a dwarf rattlesnake owned by an unlicensed keeper. The snake can launch itself off the ground in a strike that can prove fatal unless anti-venom is not administered immediately.
> Although Mr Newby tries to find new owners for the rescued animals, he keeps about 200 at his home. They include alligators, iguanas, water dragons, a common buzzard, Burmese pythons, Californian king snakes and poisonous cane toads.
> He said: "There should be a licensing system for dangerous animals so that owners can be educated and provided with care sheets and councils can track down the owners of escaped or dumped animals."
> The RSPCA has called on the Government to introduce welfare controls for the trade in exotic pets to replace the outdated 1951 Pet Animals Act."
> quote]
> *Ian newby isn't he the bloke who does the reptile bit on BBC's ANIMAL 24/7?*
> *He comes across as a reptile keeping anti.*


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## Crownan

Ok, so far lots of people seem to be suggesting that maybe we shouldnt support this event yet no-ones actually given a decent or coherant reason as to why!

Looks good to from what I can see......


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## pam b

Crownan said:


> Ok, so far lots of people seem to be suggesting that maybe we shouldnt support this event yet no-ones actually given a decent or coherant reason as to why!
> 
> Looks good to from what I can see......


I'm not suggestion anything Jon, i'm mearly asking questions at the moment.:blush:


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## peterf

I would guess that Mark Brann wasn't successful at raising any funds for his new venture or indeed his old venture of Exotic Pet Centre Maidstone.
For someone who had supposed funding from the Princes Trust you would have thought he would be able to pay me the £2386.08 that he has owed my company EuroRep Ltd for over a Year......


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## pam b

peterf said:


> I would guess that Mark Brann wasn't successful at raising any funds for his new venture or indeed his old venture of Exotic Pet Centre Maidstone.
> For someone who had supposed funding from the Princes Trust you would have thought he would be able to pay me the £2386.08 that he has owed my company EuroRep Ltd for over a Year......


Well Peter, sounds to me like your money is going else where, i dont suppose its cheap to hire Hop Farm for a weekend, i only hope the money raised will be going towards your bill and that people will take on board your comments.
I look forward to any answer i recieve on my question, and will expand and ask whom was funding the original Maidenhead project and what was the outcome?


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## Mark McCarroll

Hi all,

Look at the Amazon to Outback link


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## pam b

I think its better placed here Mark, surely you can reply to either?:crazy:
After all the other topic distracts from the whole thread and its nice to have things in one place dont you think?


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## Mark McCarroll

I'm a little confused at all of the negativity re the event. The posts re Iain Newby are of no relevance as he is not attending, nor is he having any input!
I am new to this forum and have no connection with anyone posting.
The hop farm event is the beginning of a new venture designed to help promote conservation. In no way am I opposing the exotic pet trade!

A fun day for all is the intention!

Thanks

Mark


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## penfold

*hop farm*

sorry peter you just made me laugh and i know its something you should not laugh at i wont be going:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## pam b

Sorry, i have not posted RE Iain Newby, i am asking a direct question, you did ask did you not?
Now either answer the questions or please ask Mark Brann to (i'm sure he has an account :lol2: )
Again you are deflecting :crazy:


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## Mark McCarroll

Sorry pam that post was a "general" post. The funding has now been fully secured.


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## pam b

Has full approval been given by the council? 
And TBH words are hollow can you back the claim up that full funding has been recieved.If in 2002 for a center it was 5 million then surely for a project on the scale of the Edan project it would take 100's of million.
Can anyone supply a figure for the Edan project in total?

If you and Mark Brann are partners can you tell us why PeterF has not recieved his money and why you think hiring a venue and putting on a Reptile weekend is more important than one of Britains main manufacturers to the reptile world getting his money does not become your top priority?


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## Ruth

peterf said:


> I would guess that Mark Brann wasn't successful at raising any funds for his new venture or indeed his old venture of Exotic Pet Centre Maidstone.
> For someone who had supposed funding from the Princes Trust you would have thought he would be able to pay me the £2386.08 that he has owed my company EuroRep Ltd for over a Year......


Mark McCarroll, as you are obviously active online, may I just say that, I note from the newspaper link posted that is states "creators Mark McCarroll and Mark Brann, who own Exotic Pets Shop in Madistone" perhpas you would be able to answer Peter above?

Ruth


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## Mark McCarroll

Miss Quote!


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## Mark McCarroll

I am not in a position to chat about my business partners finances. Nor can I comment on supposed rental costs of the hop farm.

Two separate businesses.


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## Maureen Collinson

Hello Mark McCarroll,

Same question to you re PeterF and the money owned to him, or are you saying that you have no connection whatsoever to *'Exotic Pets shop in Maidstone'?

*If you say you are not linked with the above shop, do you condone being in partnership with someone it appears is not paying their bills? It would make me wary if that proves out, and I have no reason to doubt Peter F.

Perhaps Mark, in your own interest, you would like to tell us all a little about yourself and the event?


Maureen.


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## pam b

So your not a business partner then?

Now i could hazard a guess that the papers do envoke imaganitive writing while its celebrity based, but are you seriously trying to tell me a paper misquoted while do an article on a science/wildlife article?:crazy:

Oh you dont have to answer one of them, the Edan project, and you said yours was similar cost

The Eden Project - Where has the money gone?

So you have sourced in excess of 100 million when Mark Brann cannot pay his bills?
Thats nice!!!!:crazy:


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## pam b

Mark McCarroll said:


> I am not in a position to chat about my business partners finances. Nor can I comment on supposed rental costs of the hop farm.
> 
> Two separate businesses.


Ah so this is separate from the Edan type project and is NOT a fundraiser then, all profits would go to you?


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## Mark McCarroll

I am not here to argue. Come along and see for yourself what this (not the pet shop) project is about.

Conservation is the way forward,


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## pam b

Mark McCarroll said:


> I am not here to argue. Come along and see for yourself what this (not the pet shop) project is about.
> 
> Conservation is the way forward,


Conservation is fine Mark, but no thankyou i will decline your offer, as you cannot answer and evade questions.


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## penfold

if there is nothing dodgy going on why wont you just answer peoples questions


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## peterf

I'm a little confused.
Does this mean that I am, or I am not a shareholder in this new venture?
At least until my money is paid to me....
It seems I unknowingly have financed this somewhere along the line.


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## pam b

Perhaps Penfold/PeterF we should complain to the Kent Newpaper that apparently they have been misquoted,and then perhaps they would be interested in the Finantial Times article and pass that over and it be investigated further, actually has Hop Farm been paid yet?
Only asking, as you do when these threads pan out!!!!!:whistling2:


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## Maureen Collinson

In reply to your last post, I have taken on board the fact that you have evaded all questions that are not to your liking, so won't continue asking at present, but will draw your attention to this quote below, in case you are unaware of it. It does not figure very well if I am to believe other facts that I am reading here.

COPYRIGHT 2002 Financial Times Ltd. 
(From The Express) 

Byline: Andrew Moody 

*Quote*. With backing from the Prince's Trust he launched the Exotic Pet Centre in Maidstone, Kent, two years ago and it is now a GBP100,000-turnover business selling anything from geckos to hatchling boa constrictors. *End of quote.*

Here is the link to the entire article for any that wish to read it.

Hatch a good idea from your pet subject. | Europe Intelligence Wire (October, 2002)

To read the full article you need to just fill in your email address, post code and Town, and you then get immediate access to all.

Maureen.


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## Ruth

Mark McCarroll said:


> I am not here to argue. Come along and see for yourself what this (not the pet shop) project is about.
> 
> Conservation is the way forward,


I do not see anyone arguing, however, I do see people raising concerns which are not being addressed though, and in view of this, I too decline your invitation. I like to know just how my money is going to be spent when it is in the name of "conservation".

Ruth


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## peterf

In light of these circumstances, whilst people will not be attending the new venture, could anyone local take a look in the shop and let me know if its well stocked with products or animals.
As the title to any goods remain mine until they are paid for in full, I have rights to go and remove any products to cover my outstanding moneys.
Whilst I dont like doing this, I will send the guys across with a van to try and recoup some of my losses.
That is, unless Mark has the courtesy to answer calls from us or, preferably pay his/their debts.
I guess there may also be provisions in the agreement to provide the trust funding to this business that they actually pay their debts?


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## pam b

peterf said:


> In light of these circumstances, whilst people will not be attending the new venture, could anyone local take a look in the shop and let me know if its well stocked with products or animals.
> As the title to any goods remain mine until they are paid for in full, I have rights to go and remove any products to cover my outstanding moneys.
> Whilst I dont like doing this, I will send the guys across with a van to try and recoup some of my losses.
> That is, unless Mark has the courtesy to answer calls from us or, preferably pay his/their debts.
> I guess there may also be provisions in the agreement to provide the trust funding to this business that they actually pay their debts?


I am quoting Maureen as she is litterlly leaving the house and wants me to make the post on her belhalf...................

"Peter, if nobody else takes up your request to go across, then i will happily do so on your behalf, as i owe you a favour anyway"


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## penfold

*hop farm*

i got a couple of customers up that way peter ill ask them for ya


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## pam b

Well Mr McCarrol and Mr Brann, do you have a response to any alegations made or any of the previous press reports that now seem defunct and throw you in a bad light?


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## Maureen Collinson

amazon said:


> What seems to be your problem Maureen. Through the grape vine I've heard all about you and your shenanigans. I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight


As I don't seem to have a reply from either Amazon or Mark McCarroll with regards to the above statement, for which i requested the link, could I please call on others, including you please Chris N to tell me if you have come across the above anywhere? as if it's out there then I sure want to know about it.

Kind Regards,

Mo.


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## Crownan

Anyone actually gonna give me a valid good reason as to why we should not support or visit this event then?

Seems you're all as good at evading as each other. :roll:


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## pam b

Jon i have to admit, i find this very unlike you :crazy:, normally you have your finger right on the pulse and take in posts ect. 
Now i'm finding it hard to beleive that an educated guy like yourself is not reading all the posts placed within the last 48 hours and coming to a conclusion, and if you have come to a conclusion perhaps you'd like to post your feelings then?
The posts are plain to most ,they seem to be evading you, and that i see as puzzeling!!!:crazy:
Fact of the matter is posts have been placed here from either direct members (PeterF) or indeed the media (linked via search) that unfortunately throws the situation into doubt for various reasons, but i doubt you/ll have anyone that will be foolhardy enough to outright say what they think via an internet forum even if some people are happy to quote to the media and then backtrack..:whistling2:

Let the people decide via media links and personal experrience and evasion i say.: victory:


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## pam b

Maureen Collinson said:


> As I don't seem to have a reply from either Amazon or Mark McCarroll with regards to the above statement, for which i requested the link, could I please call on others, including you please Chris N to tell me if you have come across the above anywhere? as if it's out there then I sure want to know about it.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Mo.


Nope Maureen, did a full search and came up with Zip untoward.


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## Ruth

Maureen Collinson said:


> As I don't seem to have a reply from either Amazon or Mark McCarroll with regards to the above statement, for which i requested the link, could I please call on others, including you please Chris N to tell me if you have come across the above anywhere? as if it's out there then I sure want to know about it.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Mo.





pam b said:


> Nope Maureen, did a full search and came up with Zip untoward.


Same here, have searched to the best of my ability but not found anything :hmm:



On a separate issue one thing that has been bothering me from the newspaper article is the following quote: 

*Energy to power the facility in the Kent countryside will be produced by wind turbines and water mills, and the animals will be rescued and donated by zoos.*

It is stated that animals will be rescued and donated by zoos, now, if this is to be a natural type of environment then how are the resscues going to be monitored in order to make sure that they are not incubating any dormant illness, the reason this springs to my mind is a very recent case where a friend of mine resuced three ratsnakes, the grey ratsnake did not show any sign whatsoever of illness until over one year later, thank goodness my freind is very experienced in this sort of situation and had taken full precautions so that the illness did not spread to any of her other charges, however, unless all resuces are going to be isolated for a minimum of one year I do not see how a rescue type operation can be incorporated successfully into this venture.

Another thought, although it sounds good having a natural environment for the animials by mere fact of their nature this does mean that people will be paying to go and see the animals in situ, however, it would possibly mean that at time people were paying out to not actually get to see any animal on that particular day/night, folks might be happy to go along but if they do happen upon a day when no animals are "on show" would they be happy to pay out again on the off-chance that they might be lucky enought to have a sighting? O.K., from my point of view and possibly many of you on this forum who have a strong interest in reptiles, then, yes, I would probably be enticed to make futher visits but do wonder if the typical family would do so and whether or not under such potential circumstances this would be a financially sustainable venture.

Ruth


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## Crownan

pam b said:


> Jon i have to admit, i find this very unlike you :crazy:, normally you have your finger right on the pulse and take in posts ect.
> Now i'm finding it hard to beleive that an educated guy like yourself is not reading all the posts placed within the last 48 hours and coming to a conclusion, and if you have come to a conclusion perhaps you'd like to post your feelings then?
> The posts are plain to most ,they seem to be evading you, and that i see as puzzeling!!!:crazy:
> Fact of the matter is posts have been placed here from either direct members (PeterF) or indeed the media (linked via search) that unfortunately throws the situation into doubt for various reasons, but i doubt you/ll have anyone that will be foolhardy enough to outright say what they think via an internet forum even if some people are happy to quote to the media and then backtrack..:whistling2:
> 
> Let the people decide via media links and personal experrience and evasion i say.: victory:


:blush: :blush: :blush:

I dunno, seem to be a lot of personal agendas. While things are being kicked around and mud being thrown at each other. I dont actually have a decent arguement from either side. I dont know the stories behind monies owed, or acusations of things, or previous agendas. There seems to be one half of a two person team evading Q's and the other half hasnt popped up etc etc.

I guess Im just real confused now lol!!

I also try and keep an open mind on these issues and try to hope for the best so is there no way that this is a legitimate venture with no ill ideas, processes or hidden agendas?

Muchly confuzled,

Crow.


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## Mark McCarroll

Hi,

This will be my last post on this subject. A little bit of a Q&A.

1. Amazon to Outback is a totally independent venture to the Exotic Pet Centre therefore there is no financial connection between the two. 

2. All money received from the event will be put back into the conservation park. Full funding has been received for the park but there are many ways to look at the phrase "full funding". Mine being that you can never input enough money into conservation.
As you will be able to read, each year the conservation park will be buying acres of rainforest throughout the world to protect it from deforestation.

3. With regards to the statement made in relation to people not being able to see the reptiles or get the experience that they have given money for, this is a comment that has not been thought through. The conservation park will use technology such as endoscopes and digital video to ensure that the paying public receive a memorable experience. The park will offer nocturnal experiences for people to experience night time activity.

4. Myself and other members of Amazon to Outback state that we have no connection with "amazon" as would appear through statements made by forum users.

After making the above statement I would hope that I have answered any unanswered questions/concerns and would formally like to invite you all to attend my event and give your support to the issue of the day which is CONSERVATION.

Many thanks

Mark McCarroll


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## Mark McCarroll

Sorry,

One point I did forget to make clear was that about the amount of money it will take to build/start up the conservation park.
If you read the newspaper article it states that the conservation park will be "based" on the eden project. It does NOT state anywhere that the conservation park will "cost" as much as the Eden Project.

Many thanks

Mark


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## garysumpter

Peter,

FYI I have been to the Exotic Pet Centre many times over the years as I am pretty local to them.

I can honestly say that it has never been a well stocked shop, they have VERY little stock and hardly any reptiles.

I was told by a local commercial business company that the shop was for sale (but dont hold me to that.)

God knows how they have stayed open this long.

Gary


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## peterf

Thanks Gary.
They stay in business by not paying their bills. They will not answer either of the two mobile numbers we have for them and the shop number "does not receive incoming calls".
I call it theft plain and simple and if Mark Brann doesn't resolve this matter soon someone will.
As there is a clear link between the two Marks, whilst I am all for conservation I wouldn't trust them with the money for a packet of crisps.


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## rocco

Hi peter,

Speaking as a lawyer i would like to inform you of the following: 

Defamation of character is a right of legal action against someone, or an organisation, who has communicated statements that may harm an individual's character or reputation i.e. defame it. The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts (civil wrongs for which damages may be claimed) of libel and slander. Libel is primarily a published, written form of defamation - though it can also include films, statues and effigies. Slander is any spoken, unpublished defamation.


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## rocco

If you only know one party involved then take heed of the above.


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## peterf

To be libelous my comments need to be false. Is that not the law?


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## rocco

You seem to be missing the point. You have had dealings with one of the two stated individuals.


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## Testudo Man

rocco said:


> Hi peter,
> 
> Speaking as a lawyer i would like to inform you of the following:
> 
> Defamation of character is a right of legal action against someone, or an organisation, who has communicated statements that may harm an individual's character or reputation i.e. defame it. The common law origins of defamation lie in the *torts* (civil wrongs for which damages may be claimed) of libel and slander. Libel is primarily a published, written form of defamation - though it can also include films, statues and effigies. Slander is any spoken, unpublished defamation.


Just to be clear on the above post...

When you wrote torts...did you mean courts?:whistling2:...T.T.8)


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## peterf

Mark McCarroll said:


> I am not in a position to chat about my business partners finances. Nor can I comment on supposed rental costs of the hop farm.
> 
> Two separate businesses.


Hi Rocco, I understand exactly what you are saying.
I am refering to Mark Brann who is the owner of Exotic Pet Centre. I do not know Mark Mcarroll but, by his own admission he is business partners with Mark Brann. Whether this is, as stated by the newspaper, in the pet centre or not, I do not know. 
I am passing my opinion on my experiences with one of these individuals.
Mark Brann received goods from my company, sold them and never paid for them.
These are facts and its a shame that the law does little do assist in the non payment of debts. 
County Court judgments have no teeth and are a waste of money and time in trying to recover debts.


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## rocco

"Freedom of speech on the net questioned after libel award for comments in a Chat-room"

After an investigation to discover the real identity of the chat-room users who insulted him, Mr
Keith-Smith decided to begin court action against them by means of two different libel claims.
One of these actions was actually settled before trial for the amount of £30,000. However the
second action reached the court, which pronounced in favour of Mr Keith-Smith, awarding damages in
the sum of £10,000 together with £7,200 representing costs and the obligation for the defendant to
never repeat such allegations against Mr Keith-Smith.
This case is one of the few defamation cases between private individuals to go to court as usually
the parties endeavour to settle before trial.

Ref: Intellectual Property and Corporate Law - Lawdit Commercial Solicitors


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## pam b

So Mark, to clarify, you have no financial interest or partnership in the shop, but are partners in the Amazon to Outback experrience?
Is that what you are saying?


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## Ruth

Mark McCarroll said:


> 3. With regards to the statement made in relation to people not being able to see the reptiles or get the experience that they have given money for, this is a comment that has not been thought through. The conservation park will use technology such as endoscopes and digital video to ensure that the paying public receive a memorable experience. The park will offer nocturnal experiences for people to experience night time activity.


 
My point still remain and that being, reptile enthusiasts may well pay for a return visit even if they do not see the animals in the flesh, however if the general public do not get to see the animals in the flesh they may well not, after all, you can watch animals in their truly natural habitat on the TV for free so why would they pay out for a return visit just to watch a digital video?

Ruth


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## garysumpter

I for one won't be going


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## pam b

rocco said:


> Hi peter,
> 
> Speaking as a lawyer i would like to inform you of the following:
> 
> Defamation of character is a right of legal action against someone, or an organisation, who has communicated statements that may harm an individual's character or reputation i.e. defame it. The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts (civil wrongs for which damages may be claimed) of libel and slander. Libel is primarily a published, written form of defamation - though it can also include films, statues and effigies. Slander is any spoken, unpublished defamation.


Then you will also know as a lawyer, that the onus is on the person claiming defamation to prove their innocence, strange but true, if you claim defamation you have to prove you are right, the other person doesnt have to prove what they said is right, you have to prove what they said is a lie!!!


Edit,
and can i say how supprising yet again another newbie has entered, 6 posts all in this thread, can admin check against ~~Amazon's IP perchance?


----------



## pam b

Mark McCarroll said:


> Hi,
> 
> This will be my last post on this subject. A little bit of a Q&A.
> 
> 1. Amazon to Outback is a totally independent venture to the Exotic Pet Centre therefore there is no financial connection between the two.
> 
> 2. All money received from the event will be put back into the conservation park. Full funding has been received for the park but there are many ways to look at the phrase "full funding". Mine being that you can never input enough money into conservation.
> As you will be able to read, each year the conservation park will be buying acres of rainforest throughout the world to protect it from deforestation.
> 
> 3. With regards to the statement made in relation to people not being able to see the reptiles or get the experience that they have given money for, this is a comment that has not been thought through. The conservation park will use technology such as endoscopes and digital video to ensure that the paying public receive a memorable experience. The park will offer nocturnal experiences for people to experience night time activity.
> 
> 4. Myself and other members of Amazon to Outback state that we have no connection with "amazon" as would appear through statements made by forum users.
> 
> After making the above statement I would hope that I have answered any unanswered questions/concerns and would formally like to invite you all to attend my event and give your support to the issue of the day which is CONSERVATION.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Mark McCarroll


No you havnt answered all the questions and some have been skimmed over with a vague reply.

Again i decline your kind offer to attend.


----------



## Ruth

Mark McCarroll said:


> 2. All money received from the event will be put back into the conservation park. Full funding has been received for the park but there are many ways to look at the phrase "full funding". Mine being that you can never input enough money into conservation.
> As you will be able to read, each year the conservation park will be buying acres of rainforest throughout the world to protect it from deforestation.


Again quoting from the newspaper article:

*The success of Amazon to Outback will determine whether the proposals will get the go-ahead for Forgotten World Conservation Park.*

So, if the event does not go how you wish and you do NOT get the go ahead, where then are these fund going to go?

Ruth


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## CBR1100XX

Thread locked as requested.


----------



## Maureen Collinson

amazon said:


> What seems to be your problem Maureen. Through the grape vine I've heard all about you and your shenanigans. I don't think you're in a position to bad mouth anybody when you're history with the R.S.P.C.A is now available for all to see on-line via a particular government sight.





rocco said:


> "Freedom of speech on the net questioned after libel award for comments in a Chat-room"
> 
> After an investigation to discover the real identity of the chat-room users who insulted him, Mr
> Keith-Smith decided to begin court action against them by means of two different libel claims.
> One of these actions was actually settled before trial for the amount of £30,000. However the
> second action reached the court, which pronounced in favour of Mr Keith-Smith, awarding damages in
> the sum of £10,000 together with £7,200 representing costs and the obligation for the defendant to
> never repeat such allegations against Mr Keith-Smith.
> This case is one of the few defamation cases between private individuals to go to court as usually
> the parties endeavour to settle before trial.
> 
> Ref: Intellectual Property and Corporate Law - Lawdit Commercial Solicitors


 
Thanks Rocco, seems like this is the way forward for me :thumb:

Would the moderators please be kind enough to ensure that the IP address of Amazon is not "lost" as of course this will be required to track the person down, whether or not it is forum policy not to divulge private information which I fully respect under normal circumstances.

Money is not the issue here, so after any costs involved in clearing my name, then I will donate any compensation if awarded to the Essex Wildlife Hospital.

Maureen


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## Grakky

Alright, here goes. Sorry to be dumb, but I'm a little confused at this thread. I tried reading through it but it gets a tad confusing if your not 'in the loop' of what is going on. I clicked the links and stuff, but it may just be it's early in the morning and nothing is getting through my thick skull. 

Could someone please, in the simplist possible terms, explain to me why I should not go this event?


thankyou


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## forwantof

It says on the hop farm webpage that this has been cancelled? Is this right?


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## pam b

looks like it

Amazon to Outback Reptile Experience


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## Testudo Man

I keep driving past a large advertising board for the show...I think its an Australian water dragon on the sign?...T.T.8)


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## Chris Newman

The events has been cancelled I believe, and not due to pressure from the ‘antis’ – before they start claiming credit! Perhaps those who were behind the event would care to comment!


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## forwantof

What a disappointment.


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## HS

According to the link Pam B posted, the reason given for the cancellation appears to be Health & Safety issues.



> The Hop Farm has a policy of ensuring public safety at all times and with some of the operational issues this show would have incurred it has caused us concern.


I find that rather odd.


However, the Kent Breeders Meeting IS still going ahead and has nothing to do with the Hop Farm show. Just in case there was any confusion.8)


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## Sid.lola

Fixx said:


> *"Alligator alert as dumped pets survive in wild*
> 
> 
> By David Sapsted
> Last Updated: 7:44pm BST 17/10/2004
> 
> 
> Record numbers of exotic animals, many of them dangerous, are being abandoned by owners who cannot cope.
> An animal rescue group said yesterday that a flood of dangerous reptiles was being brought into the country, often illegally, and that many were flourishing in the wild.
> Iain Newby runs the Dangerous Wild Animal Rescue Facility (Dwarf), which has taken in 2,500 exotic animals since it was formed seven years ago.
> 
> He said venomous spiders, snakes, scorpions and even alligators were proving adept at surviving after being dumped.
> He receives up to 15 calls a day to catch creatures or from people asking for help with pets they cannot handle.
> Mr Newby, 37, who runs Dwarf with his girfriend, Lisa Tremble, 30, from their home in Great Wakering, Essex, said many people bought dangerous animals for the wrong reasons.
> "They buy rottweiler dogs because it makes them look big," he said. "In the same way they buy alligators as status symbols."
> Among the 200 creatures he keeps at his home is a cayman alligator called Cedric, which a teenage boy swapped for his two piranhas on the internet, thinking it was a lizard.
> Last year he rescued five caymans that were being used for racing on an internet gambling site.
> In the past year Dwarf has received calls to capture 20 poisonous black widow spiders that arrived in freight deliveries from America.
> Mr Newby has also been called to catch a dwarf rattlesnake owned by an unlicensed keeper. The snake can launch itself off the ground in a strike that can prove fatal unless anti-venom is not administered immediately.
> Although Mr Newby tries to find new owners for the rescued animals, he keeps about 200 at his home. They include alligators, iguanas, water dragons, a common buzzard, Burmese pythons, Californian king snakes and poisonous cane toads.
> He said: "There should be a licensing system for dangerous animals so that owners can be educated and provided with care sheets and councils can track down the owners of escaped or dumped animals."
> The RSPCA has called on the Government to introduce welfare controls for the trade in exotic pets to replace the outdated 1951 Pet Animals Act."
> 
> 
> 
> Right I have read the article, what's the problem Maureen?


That's what I was trying to find out when I PM's you Maureen. Does anyone else know if there's some problem with Iain Newby and dwarf?


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## pam b

Chris Newman said:


> The events has been cancelled I believe, and not due to pressure from the ‘antis’ – before they start claiming credit! Perhaps those who were behind the event would care to comment!


Yeah right.:lol2:
Like thats very likely Chris!!!!:whistling2:


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## Chris Newman

pam b said:


> Yeah right.:lol2:
> Like thats very likely Chris!!!!:whistling2:


Pamela, with the advent of modern technology is it beyond the realms of possibility that pigs might fly!


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## sean k

*hop farm reptile show*

hi does anyone no why this has been cancelled. thanks


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## pam b

Chris Newman said:


> Pamela, with the advent of modern technology is it beyond the realms of possibility that pigs might fly!


Good point Christopher, good point, however i have just noticed that he's banned, so wether he flys or not he cant post anyhow!!!!:lol2:


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## t-bo

pam b said:


> Good point Christopher, good point, however i have just noticed that he's banned, so wether he flys or not he cant post anyhow!!!!:lol2:


Just to confirm that he still has an active account, the duplicate was closed/banned.


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## Chris Newman

t-bo said:


> Just to confirm that he still has an active account, the duplicate was closed/banned.


In which case the individuals concerned have a duty to inform people as to why this event did not take place. If this is not done within the next 7 days I will make the details available.


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## pam b

t-bo said:


> Just to confirm that he still has an active account, the duplicate was closed/banned.


Ah ok cheers



Chris Newman said:


> In which case the individuals concerned have a duty to inform people as to why this event did not take place. If this is not done within the next 7 days I will make the details available.


Excellent stuff Chris i know quite a few people are itching to find out myself included.


----------



## pam b

Bump,
We wouldnt want Chris forgetting this tomorrow, some of us are bustin a gut to find out!!!!wned8:


----------



## Fangio

pam b said:


> Bump,
> We wouldnt want Chris forgetting this tomorrow, some of us are bustin a gut to find out!!!!wned8:


*eats popcorn and awaits answers*:devil:


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## DeanThorpe

what the? ok so reading page one and 12 didnt help..i have to read the entire thread to find out whats going on..its all good...lets do it..


----------



## DeanThorpe

Originally Posted by *Chris Newman*  
_In which case the individuals concerned have a duty to inform people as to why this event did not take place. If this is not done within the next 7 days I will make the details available. _

erm why do any individual have to inform why the event was cancelled? 
im all for you posting the info chris but why do they? unless they have taken payment or otherwise inconvineinced ppl?

crowman...am with you on the not quite following everything.

Rocco, if the guy owes cash to eurorep and thats 100% fact..therees no slander there regardless of affiliations.

peterf... so is eurorep an independant company dude? just curious as i erm..just like usually assuem as you can imagine that such comps arent.


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## peterf

DeanThorpe said:


> peterf... so is eurorep an independant company dude? just curious as i erm..just like usually assuem as you can imagine that such comps arent.


Sorry for being daft Dean, but whats the question??


----------



## pam b

Chris?


----------



## Chris Newman

Pam,

I understand that legal proceedings against the individuals ‘organising’ this event have been commenced, therefore it would be inappropriate for me to comment further at time. Not with standing this it is a pity the organisers, one of whom at least posted here, felt unable to state publicly why the event failed to happen. Undoubtedly people will draw there own conclusions. All I can say is that it was nothing to do with ‘antis’ lobbying against this event.


----------



## pam b

Ah, OK Chris not a problem, whilst unfortunate more information cannot be released at this time it also really comes as no supprise TBH (from reading the thread) that some form of legal proceedings may have been in the offing.


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## Chalky

hey, i dont know if anyone's aware but it appears that Mark Brann has died. i read it in a KM article somewhere.


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## pam b

Yup i know, someone told me a bit back.


----------

