# Newbie advice for an air pump



## bigdan676 (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi guys i new new to the forums, thought i would sign up for some advice. I am looking for a air pump which is quiet, i have had two from local pet shops but they where useless.
I have seen this one,
Tetra Tetratec Air Pump APS | Aquarium Supplies
Any good? if not then please suggest one please.

Here's a few pictures of my tank,




























I will also be asking about other stuff soon because i want to give the tank a new look.

Thsnks
Dan


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## carpmandan (Feb 20, 2011)

bigdan676 said:


> Hi guys i new new to the forums, thought i would sign up for some advice. I am looking for a air pump which is quiet, i have had two from local pet shops but they where useless.
> I have seen this one,
> Tetra Tetratec Air Pump APS | Aquarium Supplies
> Any good? if not then please suggest one please.


Its hard to say how quiet it will be really, the design of it looks like it should be 'quiet'.
make sure its on a soft surface, ie. carpet.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

3,2,1...:whistling2:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

I'll leave this for someone else! Any airpump is good and isn't neccessary (a little more in your case, extra oxygen will help).


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## bigdan676 (Feb 22, 2011)

carpmandan said:


> Its hard to say how quiet it will be really, the design of it looks like it should be 'quiet'.
> make sure its on a soft surface, ie. carpet.


Yea it will be on the carpet, thanks, might order it and try.



jme2049 said:


> 3,2,1...:whistling2:


care to elaborate?



_jake_ said:


> I'll leave this for someone else! Any airpump is good and isn't neccessary (a little more in your case, extra oxygen will help).


I know it isn't necessary, but i have a airstone which looks great when the light is on.

Apart from the pump, what else could i do to the tank in general? add more fish, decor? just want to liven it up a bit more.

Dan


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## carpmandan (Feb 20, 2011)

bigdan676 said:


> Yea it will be on the carpet, thanks, might order it and try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A nice background would top it off mate.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

bigdan676 said:


> Yea it will be on the carpet, thanks, might order it and try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The amount of fish mate, Goldies get huge and really need large tank 180L + tbh. Some members are much more experienced with goldfish so I'm sure they will post soon.:2thumb:


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

air pumps are usually nosiey little things:/ i mean those filters arnt great for goldfish which model is it?

my favorite air pump is TetraTec APS150 Air Pump: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

and i used to keep a poly sheet underneath


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

sorry looking ta the same pump haha yer its a good one!


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

you dont want ANY more goldfish with that filter! try buying a heater and keeping some trops in there, goldfish are fine in heated tanks somepeople thing they prefer it! 
and some more REAL plants


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

oh dear, would you please consider whats best for these fish. the tank itself looks nice, but those fish are needing far more space and like yesterday. it looks to be 5 common shaped goldfish and a single fancy goldfish, am i right? they seem to be in good health right now, but they really need more water volume to dilute their wastes and a large filtration system too. not to mention those commons/comets/shubunkin need at least a 5ft or more tank (or better yet a pond) to swim properly and thrive. the fancy goldfish with another fancy goldfish friend could live for life in a 3ft tank, 30gallons. the air pump will have little effect on the lives of these fish IMO. i hope you are carrying out 2-3 times weekly partial water changes for these guys, i would guess the nitrates will be very high if not.sorry to put such a downer on it, but i adore goldfish and try to encourage people to house them correctly :2thumb: any questions feel free to ask, il help where i can.


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## bigdan676 (Feb 22, 2011)

goldie1212 said:


> oh dear, would you please consider whats best for these fish. the tank itself looks nice, but those fish are needing far more space and like yesterday. it looks to be 5 common shaped goldfish and a single fancy goldfish, am i right? they seem to be in good health right now, but they really need more water volume to dilute their wastes and a large filtration system too. not to mention those commons/comets/shubunkin need at least a 5ft or more tank (or better yet a pond) to swim properly and thrive. the fancy goldfish with another fancy goldfish friend could live for life in a 3ft tank, 30gallons. the air pump will have little effect on the lives of these fish IMO. i hope you are carrying out 2-3 times weekly partial water changes for these guys, i would guess the nitrates will be very high if not.sorry to put such a downer on it, but i adore goldfish and try to encourage people to house them correctly :2thumb: any questions feel free to ask, il help where i can.


Hi, i have had the above set-up for over 2 years now, only thing i have changed is the gravel.

I understand about the space issue, going to take a couple of items out.
The tank gets new water every 2 months.

You mentioned about a bigger filtration sytem, isn't the two filters in there enough?

Cheers
Dan


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## carpmandan (Feb 20, 2011)

bigdan676 said:


> Hi, i have had the above set-up for over 2 years now, only thing i have changed is the gravel.
> 
> I understand about the space issue, going to take a couple of items out.
> The tank gets new water every 2 months.
> ...


Personally Dan, and this is Just MY Opinion before anyone starts,
i dont think you need more space at all, you have two decent filters in there, and provided you clean them regulary and as you have already said a water change once in a while, put that with the air stone, i cant see any issues there. I WOULDNT put any live plants in tho, as the fish will probly eat them, or dig them out and they could get stuck in the filter.

Now im not saying they wont need a bigger tank at some point, but certainly not at this moment.

do you use anything in the water, One thing i can personally recomend is Cycle. this is basically "good bacteria" for your filter

https://www.petplanet.co.uk/product_group.asp?dept_id=1311&pg_id=899
Hagen Nutrafin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement - Product Reviews at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

I used this when i had my Carp tank, which are now in my pond, well worth the money and really does help.


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## bigdan676 (Feb 22, 2011)

carpmandan said:


> Personally Dan, and this is Just MY Opinion before anyone starts,
> i dont think you need more space at all, you have two decent filters in there, and provided you clean them regulary and as you have already said a water change once in a while, put that with the air stone, i cant see any issues there. I WOULDNT put any live plants in tho, as the fish will probly eat them, or dig them out and they could get stuck in the filter.
> 
> Now im not saying they wont need a bigger tank at some point, but certainly not at this moment.
> ...


I havn't used any chemicals in the tank (in over 7 years), apart from once when i saw one of my goldfish had white spot.

other than that the only thing that goes in is food, fresh water, and every month bloodworm.


Apart from the above, i am thinking of downsizing the tank, i quiet like the Biorb ones/ similar ones.

Any one had any experiance with these tanks?

Dan


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## gurnster75 (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm in the process of setting up a Fluval Edge, but I'm only planning on putting a few guppies in it. This and Biorbs are small, and totally unsuited for your goldfish. If you down size you will need to get rid of the goldfish and start looking at guppies and the like I'm afraid.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i can see this will probably go nowhere. just a few things to keep in mind, they do need a bigger tank for their own health and wellbeing, they need to have partial water changes weekly not every month or 2, they will not live a long and happy life in this tank and certainly wont thrive. 2 years of a goldfishes life is nothing, they are still very much babies and need a lot of space and good water quality to grow. do not downsize and put these beautiful potentially large fish into a smaller tank, the tank you have is really too small for the fish in there. maybe you could rehome these fish to a suitable new home, either pond home or much bigger tank for the commons and a bigger tank home for the fancy. you could then buy your bi-orb and stock with suitable fish such as guppies or endlers, or some smaller tetras. 

these fish will have the potential to grow very large, in this smaller tank you are stunting their growth, especially with your infrequent water changes. that fancy could reach 8-10", my largest fancy at the moment is just over 9.5" long, and still growing. commons can reach double that. please think of the long term care and wellbeing of these lovely fish :2thumb:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

My heart sank when I saw those photos Poor fish!

If I'm being totally honest, I'd be doing nightly water changes in a tank so desperately overstocked, with *dechlorinated* water.

I fail to see how anyone can claim these fish don't need a bigger tank?

These fish belong in much, much bigger tanks, and even better in ponds. Not ridiculously small glass confines.

I say get a biorb and *research* fish *properly*, the common issues with biorb filtration, how to cycle a tank, and how to correctly stock a tank.

In the meantime, if these guys aren't getting a significantly bigger tank soon, rehome them.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

carpmandan said:


> Personally Dan, and this is Just MY Opinion before anyone starts,
> i dont think you need more space at all, you have two decent filters in there, and provided you clean them regulary and as you have already said a water change once in a while, put that with the air stone, i cant see any issues there. I WOULDNT put any live plants in tho, as the fish will probly eat them, or dig them out and they could get stuck in the filter.
> 
> Now im not saying they wont need a bigger tank at some point, but certainly not at this moment.
> ...


A water change once in a while?
Keeping goldfish without live plants isn't fair at all imo. It's natural behaviour for them to eat plants, and apart from anything else entertaining watching them rearrange them. For the cost of some elodea, there really is no excuse for not having something.
A healthy, balanced and appropriately stocked tank doesn't need bottled bacteria added.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

hippyhaplos said:


> A water change once in a while?
> Keeping goldfish without live plants isn't fair at all imo. It's natural behaviour for them to eat plants, and apart from anything else entertaining watching them rearrange them. For the cost of some elodea, there really is no excuse for not having something.
> A healthy, balanced and appropriately stocked tank doesn't need bottled bacteria added.


110% agree with everything here :2thumb:


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## carpmandan (Feb 20, 2011)

hippyhaplos said:


> My heart sank when I saw those photos Poor fish!
> 
> If I'm being totally honest, I'd be doing nightly water changes in a tank so desperately overstocked, with *dechlorinated* water.
> 
> ...


How can you say that tank is over stocked, and in the same reply recommend a biorb! Biorb are horible things and shouldn't be used, the filtration and design is not upto the job at all. And again that tank is NOT overstocked, i wouldn't put anymore in, but the fish will grow to the tank.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

carpmandan said:


> How can you say that tank is over stocked, and in the same reply recommend a biorb! Biorb are horible things and shouldn't be used, the filtration and design is not upto the job at all. And again that tank is NOT overstocked, i wouldn't put anymore in, but the fish will grow to the tank.


Sorry I don't recall suggesting a biorb for goldies?

Fish don't grow to the size of a tank. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about! Stunting will stop them growing externally yes, and give the appearance of growing to the size of their tank, but the organs will continue to grow, causing abnormalities and ultimately an untimely death.

And again, that tank is grossly over stocked!!!!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

grow to the size of the tank, its been a while since ive heard that awful saying crop up  as said, its stunting the growth of the fish, the external body slows in growth, or can even stop, the internal organs continue to grow although probably more slowly, the fish will slowly suffer and die through its organs being deformed inside and failing. there is a lot of debate on stunting the growth of fish, and that some say its impossible to have some parts grow and some not, but just look at the oversized in comparison to body size eyes and fins of a stunted goldfish, if the eyes and fins can continue to grow, so can other organs inside. its a fact that stunted fish die much earlier deaths than fish given proper care and space to grow to their full potential. 

the water changes once in a while thing is disgusting, would you leave a hamster living in its own mess for a month or more? no. so why would you do so with a fish? the water needs changing once a week *in a well stocked well filtered tank *whereas this tank is over stocked and not well filtered so will need more often than the weekly partial changes. its common sense surely :?


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## carpmandan (Feb 20, 2011)

hippyhaplos said:


> Sorry I don't recall suggesting a biorb for goldies?
> 
> Fish don't grow to the size of a tank. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about! Stunting will stop them growing externally yes, and give the appearance of growing to the size of their tank, but the organs will continue to grow, causing abnormalities and ultimately an untimely death.
> 
> And again, that tank is grossly over stocked!!!!


OP Said " i am thinking of downsizing the tank, i quiet like the Biorb ones"
To which You Replyed
"I say get a biorb and *research* fish *properly" *
so that is when you sugested it, as OP didnt say he was thinking of keeping different fish, just downsizing!

As for me clearly haveing no clue, firstly how will that attitude help anyone, when im giving advice, because you disagree with it doesnt mean i dont have a clue! ive kept fish for 20+ years.

As for your comment
_"Fish don't grow to the size of a tank. Stunting will stop them growing externally yes, and give the appearance of growing to the size of their tank, but the organs will continue to grow, causing abnormalities and ultimately an untimely death."
_*Ive never heard anything so Ridiculous in my life! In the wild they grow to their environment ie lake size which is a FACT. so how does this Not apply to a Tank/Pond*_. 
_


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i swear by powerheads... i haven't used an air pump in years...

Hagen Fluval AquaClear Powerhead (20, 30, 50, 70, 110)


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

carpmandan said:


> OP Said " i am thinking of downsizing the tank, i quiet like the Biorb ones"
> To which You Replyed
> "I say get a biorb and *research* fish *properly" *
> so that is when you sugested it, as OP didnt say he was thinking of keeping different fish, just downsizing!
> ...


Pretty sure I mentioned researching correct stocking as well?

You're not just giving advice, you're giving wrong advice. Fish secrete hormones which lead to growth stunting. In a lake, where these are tens of thousands of gallons of water, the level of these hormones is negligible- a tank that size, with minimum water changes, the levels of these hormones will be high.

You simply can't compare a massively overstocked tank to a lake!

Keeping fish is clearly different from caring for fish..


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

carpmandan said:


> OP Said " i am thinking of downsizing the tank, i quiet like the Biorb ones"
> To which You Replyed
> "I say get a biorb and *research* fish *properly" *
> so that is when you sugested it, as OP didnt say he was thinking of keeping different fish, just downsizing!
> ...


a fish will have a final size determined by genetics given the proper care and space they need to reach this size. if the water quality is poor as in a very small body of water which isnt constantly refreshed as in a running river, the toxins build and cause growth inhibition. the smaller the body of water, the faster the toxins build, the slower the growth. they do not grow to the size of the lake, they simply have the ability to grow to their maximum size due to the size of the body of water. if what you are saying is correct, all fish would be exactly the same size in each lake/river rather than being determined by genetic makeup.


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

jme2049 said:


> 3,2,1...:whistling2:


As soon as I saw the pictures were of goldfish I KNEW two people would jump in and start on a newbie ( again ) , this is why I rarely post in this section now , last week a new member called kawasaki girl started a thread got jumped on , then disappeared , never to be heard from again . If you want people to listen to you , try gentle , subtle persuasion . All that will happen is another newbie will be driven away , never to post again , and the fish will still be in the same situation . Funny I never see - "It's great that you have them in a tank , not a goldfish bowl" . It's all very well saying upgrade to a bigger tank , buy more / better equipment , but with the recession not everyone is in a position to do so . Goldie1212 is lucky she has the time , space and money to devote to her goldfish . Not everyone is in the same position . Personally , I think goldfish bowls should be banned . If you want to talk REAL cruelty , I walked past a resteraunt last week , they had a 3 foot tank , in it they were keeping goldfish alongside angelfish ! Now that is far worse to my mind than what this newbie is doing .


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

lionfish said:


> As soon as I saw the pictures were of goldfish I KNEW two people would jump in and start on a newbie ( again ) , this is why I rarely post in this section now , last week a new member called kawasaki girl started a thread got jumped on , then disappeared , never to be heard from again . If you want people to listen to you , try gentle , subtle persuasion . All that will happen is another newbie will be driven away , never to post again , and the fish will still be in the same situation . Funny I never see - "It's great that you have them in a tank , not a goldfish bowl" . It's all very well saying upgrade to a bigger tank , buy more / better equipment , but with the recession not everyone is in a position to do so . Goldie1212 is lucky she has the time , space and money to devote to her goldfish . Not everyone is in the same position . Personally , I think goldfish bowls should be banned . If you want to talk REAL cruelty , I walked past a resteraunt last week , they had a 3 foot tank , in it they were keeping goldfish alongside angelfish ! Now that is far worse to my mind than what this newbie is doing .


I'm sorry I'm not all softly softly about it... but ignorance in my books isn't an excuse. Last week nobody jumped on KawasakiGirl! It's not great to see them in a tank, when it looks like that I'm afraid. It's not meeting the needs of the fish, so is just as bad as a bowl. Goldfish are hard work... anyone who done the slightest bit of research would have learned that! If people don't have the time/effort/money to spend on them then they're not the right pet!


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

hippyhaplos said:


> I'm sorry I'm not all softly softly about it... but ignorance in my books isn't an excuse. Last week nobody jumped on KawasakiGirl! It's not great to see them in a tank, when it looks like that I'm afraid. It's not meeting the needs of the fish, so is just as bad as a bowl. Goldfish are hard work... anyone who done the slightest bit of research would have learned that! If people don't have the time/effort/money to spend on them then they're not the right pet!


I agree with you , BUT you and goldie jumping on everyone who's set up isn't "just so " or "spot on" isn't going to help their fish . All you'll achieve is that they don't post again and the fish will still be in the same situation. When I worked in the trade I always used gentle persuasion, reasoned with them and took my time and steered people away from making what I considered to be bad/inappropriate choices & decisions.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

lionfish said:


> As soon as I saw the pictures were of goldfish I KNEW two people would jump in and start on a newbie ( again ) , this is why I rarely post in this section now , last week a new member called kawasaki girl started a thread got jumped on , then disappeared , never to be heard from again . If you want people to listen to you , try gentle , subtle persuasion . All that will happen is another newbie will be driven away , never to post again , and the fish will still be in the same situation . Funny I never see - "It's great that you have them in a tank , not a goldfish bowl" . It's all very well saying upgrade to a bigger tank , buy more / better equipment , but with the recession not everyone is in a position to do so . *Goldie1212 is lucky she has the time , space and money* to devote to her goldfish . Not everyone is in the same position . Personally , I think goldfish bowls should be banned . If you want to talk REAL cruelty , I walked past a resteraunt last week , they had a 3 foot tank , in it they were keeping goldfish alongside angelfish ! Now that is far worse to my mind than what this newbie is doing .


goldie1212 happens to be a very busy mum to 2 daughters under 10, who balances work during school hours and has very little money to play with, and a husband who works very long hours for crap money,and we live in a small 2bed mid terrace house. ive worked my way up to what i have now, and until i could have the big tank i keep my goldfish in, i didnt keep goldfish. i couldnt house them correctly and once i knew what their requirements were i edged my way closer to having them. i kept fish such as rosy barbs as they looked a bit like goldfish, or i just stuck to smaller tropical fish. when i moved into this house which had a long living room instead of the 10ft box in my last house,i started looking,my 6ft tank was 2nd hand for £70, its on a cheaply homemade wooden stand, and has kitchen cabinet doors with magnets holding them in place on them to create the look of the cabinet and hood,the hoods prop up using long gate hinges that fold flat into the top of the hood and can drop down against a small bracket inside the hood to keep them open. i run an fx5 filter on this tank alongside 3 fluval internal filters, not 1 was brand new, infact the only thing i have spent big money on in these tanks was the gravel :gasp: only just thought about that but ye its true. altogether my 6ft tank has cost less than £250 :2thumb:










and my 4ft tank was £80 for the tank, did the same for the cabinet look, and its on a £10 steel aquarium stand under there. again a 2nd hand fluval fx5. the tank has scratches on it on one side but i dont look at them and im happy with how it is.










you know what, id love to own a cow, maybe i could fit on into my 20ft square back garden, but i wouldnt as it wouldnt have a decent quality of life :lol2: just because they can sit there and look nice doesnt mean they are happy and are thriving and enjoying life.


oh and i havent jumped on anyone, unless they are ignorant of the reality of what they are doing. someone who knows no better can be excused, someone who ignores the truth and allows an animal to suffer to me doesnt deserve to own them. i am always polite as much as i can be, and always in my first post to someone. i wont pretend an overstocked tank is fine. we have had this in other threads and im not going to go over it all again.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

jme2049 said:


> 3,2,1...:whistling2:





lionfish said:


> As soon as I saw the pictures were of goldfish I KNEW two people would jump in and start on a newbie ( again ) , this is why I rarely post in this section now , last week a new member called kawasaki girl started a thread got jumped on , then disappeared , never to be heard from again . If you want people to listen to you , try gentle , subtle persuasion . All that will happen is another newbie will be driven away , never to post again , and the fish will still be in the same situation . Funny I never see - "It's great that you have them in a tank , not a goldfish bowl" . It's all very well saying upgrade to a bigger tank , buy more / better equipment , but with the recession not everyone is in a position to do so . Goldie1212 is lucky she has the time , space and money to devote to her goldfish . Not everyone is in the same position . Personally , I think goldfish bowls should be banned . If you want to talk REAL cruelty , I walked past a resteraunt last week , they had a 3 foot tank , in it they were keeping goldfish alongside angelfish ! Now that is far worse to my mind than what this newbie is doing .


For the record I do agree with Goldie and Hippyhaplos, I just couldn't be arsed starting it all so I just done the count down. It is overstocked but having a pop at the op will probably not make them change it.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'm old school... i've kept fish since the early 70's... and have worked in/ran a few shops...

aquatics people can be so harsh and judgemental...

the more that you know, the more you can do... seemingly impossible stuff to "so-called" experts...


we should encourage beginners and others...

i've broken many rules...

it's fun to push the envelope sometimes... people would be amazed at how little one needs to pull off a tank well...


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

jme2049 said:


> . It is overstocked but having a pop at the op will probably not make them change it.


 ^^^this^^^


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

HABU said:


> i'm old school... i've kept fish since the early 70's... and have worked in/ran a few shops...
> 
> aquatics people can be so harsh and judgemental...
> 
> ...


100% agree with you Dave  especially the "encourage beginners " part .Everyone has to start somewhere , we ALL made mistakes , thats how we learned in the first place


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

lionfish said:


> ^^^this^^^


but pretending its all fine certainly wont encourage them to change it. i think its a fine line, and i dont have a pop at anyone unless they choose to ignore the truth about their animal care short-falls which i try to put across to them in an easy to understand manner in the first post. i think i should just ignore these goldfish threads, ive helped at least 1 member on here to do the best for her goldfish, and she upgraded and her little fancy goldfish is now much much happier and destined to live a much longer healthier life. this is what i call a good owner. if ive helped even 1 fish to a better life, i guess i should be happy with it. i guess not everyone wants the best for their pets hey :?

oh, and as ive also said in other threads, yes i made a lot of mistakes when i first began, but the difference was when i was tol di was doing it wrong so to speak, i immediately rehomed my fish and began researching, i did not make excuses and carry on regardless.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

lionfish said:


> 100% agree with you Dave  especially the "encourage beginners " part .Everyone has to start somewhere , we ALL made mistakes , thats how we learned in the first place


aquatics is a nice, quiet hobby... but "holier than thou" people seem to enjoy taking people's efforts apart... in a not very positive way...

you can tell who the people are that have just read some books, kept a couple tanks... and become experts...

and i know about mickey mousing tanks... gear is expensive... you have to be creative to get the results that you want...










my last tank... nothing fancy... but i don't know a thing according to many 15 year olds... my amazon swords were older than them...

there are tricks and ways to get what you want... the hobby is big... very few can claim to be experts... myself included...

yep... although this tank i had for many years... fuss free... it's all wrong according to many...

heck, i didn't even put any effort into it...

some folks just don't know that they don't know everything...

aquatics is 90% tinkering... trying things... making adjustments... there isn't a recipe or rules written in stone...

i can defend what i do... but i'm no beginner either... people should be more tactful and encouraging to folks new to the hobby... and aren't rich...: victory:


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> but pretending its all fine certainly wont encourage them to change it. i think its a fine line, and i dont have a pop at anyone unless they choose to ignore the truth about their animal care short-falls which i try to put across to them in an easy to understand manner in the first post. i think i should just ignore these goldfish threads, ive helped at least 1 member on here to do the best for her goldfish, and she upgraded and her little fancy goldfish is now much much happier and destined to live a much longer healthier life. this is what i call a good owner. if ive helped even 1 fish to a better life, i guess i should be happy with it. i guess not everyone wants the best for their pets hey :?
> 
> oh, and as ive also said in other threads, yes i made a lot of mistakes when i first began, but the difference was when i was tol di was doing it wrong so to speak, i immediately rehomed my fish and began researching, i did not make excuses and carry on regardless.


 
The fact he sought out a forum , looking for advice on a better pump and the fact he has a tank not a bio orb or goldfish bowl is a good sign in the first place , no ? He ( it appears anyway ) wants to improve his fishes living conditions . Those are the actions of someone who wants to do the right thing IMO.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

HABU said:


> aquatics is a nice, quiet hobby... but "holier than thou" people seem to enjoy taking people's efforts apart... in a not very positive way...
> 
> you can tell who the people are that have just read some books, kept a couple tanks... and become experts...
> 
> ...


that tank is gorgeous, love the natural look.

i dont think anyone on here thinks they are an expert btw. well there is 1 i can think of but havent seen them around for a while. people are just trying to encourage healthy fish keeping, and attempting to make the lives better for the fish. no, we arent all perfect in the way we say things, but its difficult to find a nice way to put it sometimes (most of the time in my case) im passionate about fish keeping, goldfish in particular. im sure many keepers out there would flame how i keep my fish, nobodys perfect, i know im still learning. its taking into account what you learn along the way and putting it into practise or ignoring it altogether that gets me.


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

HABU said:


> aquatics is a nice, quiet hobby... but "holier than thou" people seem to enjoy taking people's efforts apart... in a not very positive way...
> 
> you can tell who the people are that have just read some books, kept a couple tanks... and become experts...
> 
> ...


 I take my hat off to you Sir , this is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time in the fish section , wise words as always from you . I always like reading your posts in the off topic and 18+ sections , as you speak so much common sense .


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

lionfish said:


> The fact he sought out a forum , looking for advice on a better pump and the fact he has a tank not a bio orb or goldfish bowl is a good sign in the first place , no ? He ( it appears anyway ) wants to improve his fishes living conditions . *Those are the actions of someone who wants to do the right thing IMO*.


agreed 100%. however, just because he wishes to add another pump doesnt make this tank any less overstocked (which he may not have known) he has also said this has been set-up for many years like this, and doesnt appear to be fussed that the fish arent going to thrive in his care in this particular aquarium. its this part that gets my back up not the fact they are in this tank to start with. its like he is making out that its fine as its been this way for a while. maybe im just reading it wrong.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

water changes are the biggest thing when it comes to stocking...


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> agreed 100%. however, just because he wishes to add another pump doesnt make this tank any less overstocked (which he may not have known) he has also said this has been set-up for many years like this, and doesnt appear to be fussed that the fish arent going to thrive in his care in this particular aquarium. its this part that gets my back up not the fact they are in this tank to start with. its like he is making out that its fine as its been this way for a while. maybe im just reading it wrong.


That's the way I perceived it all as well, then when crapmandan came along telling him the tank was fine as is, with totally incorrect information I got annoyed. 

I wish everyone had the joy of fishkeeping in their lives, but the fish have to be recognised as well! If this were in any other section, with say 6 royals in a 33l rub, or 6 beardies in a small exo-terra there would be uproar. Fish somehow aren't perceived as being as worthy of correct treatment by all too many.

A little research and forward planning goes a long way!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

HABU said:


> water changes are the biggest thing when it comes to stocking...


yes i agree. if water changes were done on a very regular basis, this tank could possibly work short term i think (although i like to give my fish room to swim properly). however, he said himself that its every month or 2 (i think thats how he worded it) which is nowhere near enough to keep up with this high bioload IMO.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

HABU said:


> water changes are the biggest thing when it comes to stocking...


I'd agree to an extent, but the size of the fish need to be taken into consideration before opting for a smaller tank.


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> agreed 100%. however, just because he wishes to add another pump doesnt make this tank any less overstocked (which he may not have known) he has also said this has been set-up for many years like this, and doesnt appear to be fussed that the fish arent going to thrive in his care in this particular aquarium. its this part that gets my back up not the fact they are in this tank to start with. its like he is making out that its fine as its been this way for a while. maybe im just reading it wrong.


 
I agree with you , it's always a difficult call , we don't know who he is - he could be 14 ( no offence to the OP or 14 year olds ) , we also don't know how often he does water changes or what / how much is feeding . All of which are factors in this


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> I'd agree to an extent, but the size of the fish need to be taken into consideration before opting for a smaller tank.


 
yes indeed...: victory:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

hippyhaplos said:


> That's the way I perceived it all as well, then when crapmandan came along telling him the tank was fine as is, with totally incorrect information I got annoyed.
> 
> I wish everyone had the joy of fishkeeping in their lives, but the fish have to be recognised as well! If this were in any other section, with say 6 royals in a 33l rub, or 6 beardies in a small exo-terra there would be uproar. Fish somehow aren't perceived as being as worthy of correct treatment by all too many.
> 
> A little research and forward planning goes a long way!



well said. i get a lot of 'its only a goldfish' when im talking to people. it makes no difference to me if its a goldfish, a neon tetra, a big friendly oscar, they all deserve the best of care. i have a headache, think i need to disappear for a while.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

bigdan676 said:


> The tank gets new water every 2 months.





lionfish said:


> we also don't know how often he does water changes


Not very often I'm afraid


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> well said. i get a lot of 'its only a goldfish' when im talking to people. it makes no difference to me if its a goldfish, a neon tetra, a big friendly oscar, they all deserve the best of care. i have a headache, think i need to disappear for a while.


Exactly!

To an extent, they're victims of their own success. They can withstand dechlorinated, unfiltered and poor water, as well as small glorified cups for a while, and when you can get them for 40p each they're sadly just a commodity


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've always tried to do small, very frequent water changes in my tanks... tanks are very unnatural by being almost a closed system... the more changes one does, the more open the system will be... the more stable most tanks will be... the chemistry is always going on and things change as time between wc's increases...

like my old malawi tanks... they got daily changes... others every few days or once a week at most... a syphon and 5 gallon bucket is your friend... and a small change only takes a couple minutes...

with fish tanks there are so many variables... change one thing and it affects something else... ideally you would have an open system with new water constantly coming in and old water constantly draining... but that isn't very practical...

even in a bigger tank like a 75, a few gallons every few days makes a big difference...


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

hippyhaplos said:


> Not very often I'm afraid


8-( not good . A friend of mine did some reasearch a while back last year ( he writes for PFK) , I don't know if it's been published yet , as I had forgotten about it until a minute ago . He had to ring round various shops asking for advice on goldfish and their care and upkeep . he get some "interesting" responses , inc the old one about they grow to the size of the tank etc . I guess where I'm going with this is - he bought the tank and those fish somewhere , so someone in a shop should've given him some advice or a handout , it's a pity more shops don't ask a few more questions before they sell livestock.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

lionfish said:


> 8-( not good . A friend of mine did some reasearch a while back last year ( he writes for PFK) , I don't know if it's been published yet , as I had forgotten about it until a minute ago . He had to ring round various shops asking for advice on goldfish and their care and upkeep . he get some "interesting" responses , inc the old one about they grow to the size of the tank etc . I guess where I'm going with this is - he bought the tank and those fish somewhere , so someone in a shop should've given him some advice or a handout , it's a pity more shops don't ask a few more questions before they sell livestock.


While the shop has the duty to educate the customer correctly as to the care of the fish(which is what [email protected] do, and don't get enough credit for it- albeit some advice has been hazardous) The duty still lies with the prospective owner to research their care and requirements. I'd like to see goldfish bowls banned, 'starter kits' for goldfish banned, and comets/commons for sale less frequently and aimed at pond keepers. Fish seem to be left behind when it comes down to welfare


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

i do feel bad for a few people in [email protected] you know the older guys who seem to have kept a tank for ages and has a few good things to tell you and they do try and really help, but then sometimes youll get the saturday worker who really doesnt know much and trys to bridge there knowledge 

i think theres a massive problem with goldfish, many people kept them as children and they really didnt use filters etc, and it seemed to work for thhem but now we want filters air pumps specilist food etc and i think people still look back at previous knowledge and arnt up to date.


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## lionfish (Jul 15, 2009)

Lord Monty said:


> i think theres a massive problem with goldfish, many people kept them as children and they really didnt use filters etc, and it seemed to work for thhem but now we want filters air pumps specilist food etc and i think people still look back at previous knowledge and arnt up to date.


I think you make a valid point there . It probably can seem confusing / baffling / a bit bewildering to newbies , all this talk of test kits , water chemistry etc I'm a big fan of keeping it simple and not over complicating things , I like to improvise , DIY things , make my own additional filters , co2 units etc .


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

i like keeping it ssimple i mean i didnt want to use a skimmer on my marine tank and i prefered doing alot more water changes i have when you buy a really nice tank! and then theres pipes tubes and everything popping off the sides making it look really nasty!
last tank i had i got it drilled looked GREAT! ill try and dig out some photos


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