# Heat mat for bearded dragon?



## bellawbu (Aug 21, 2013)

okay, so I fully well know they're not needed. a trusted guy who owns the pet store said we do. I explained why and that they can't feel the heat and he said yes but if your heater goes out you'll need it. I said it my heater went out I'd get a hot lamp, that heat mats are pointless and can burn beardies and he said he'd never seen it happen or heard of it. My parents bought it and I can't exactly get rid of it but it's completely useless and a waste of money to me, I'm witted about how he taped it to the floor. What could I do? My parents would know if it was gone. thank you. I also don't want to put the money to waste but woul it help at all in my viv?


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## Saxo (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm no expert, but if you connect it to a thermostat and set it lower than room temp then it will never come on.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Just calmly explain to your parents that bearded dragons have a third eye on top of their heads, This is the black dot between the eyes and back a bit. They detect light via this and thus know where the heat is and how hot.
Bearded dragons do not have the senses on their under side like say leopard geckos do that need the under belly heating for digestion and so bearded dragons do not know when to move because its too hot.

A basking lamp will provide all the heat you need including a 105-120 basking spot, a 90F hot end and a 80F cool end. Unless your house drops below 10C at night then you dont even need a ceramic lamp in there let alone any heatmat.

Better still show your parents this post on these forums as i have rescued two bearded dragons and one of their set ups came with a heat mat and the first thing that i did was cut the cable and ripped it off the wall and tossed it in the bin. Thats how useless they are for a bearded dragon (And before anyone asks i have too many heatmats to keep it as a spare for one of my leopard geckos and my annoyance at it being used got the better of me)


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Its not likely to be an issue if its on a thermostat either way. They can be helpful for keeping up ambient temps in the winter time, so again, no harm in keeping it there really. Like mentioned above, I would put it on a thermostat and set the temp so that it only comes on if the cool side drops below say 18 C or so. They arent great for basking spots as they dont normally get hot enough and dragons associate heat with light naturally, but they are not going to be a harm if properly set up either. 

Im curious as to why everyone thinks dragons cant feel heat on their stomachs?


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

From what i remember they dont have the nervous system there to detect heat on their underbelly so they will just sit on the mat until it burns them.
Now i do wonder how at such a low temp is can burn them but i rememebr reading somewhere (Remember reading is not always factual) that heatmats will heat up in certain areas faster if there is something on it. Much because of the heat thats already there from the body heat as opposed to the areas that do not have something on it.
Mostly i have seen heatmats mounted in setups on the wall so sitting on it wouldbt be an issue but then what good is a 7w heatmat in a 4ft vivarium? I cant be much good hence why annoyance at it even being there (Although i have seen my dragons sleep up against walls so that could be an issue also)

Its jsut far safer in my opinion to have a ceramic heat lamp if the nigh temperatures do get that cold rather than something that "could" pose a risk to a reptile.

I am guessing all the pictures you see of bearded dragons with blisters on their bellys from heatmats could be they were not stattted or they just have skin that is very easily burnt on their undersides.


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

Those that suggest keeping it and putting it on a thermostat...why? it's not needed so why waste more money on a thermostat?

I doubt very much this pet shop sold the mat already with a thermostat, I bet he doesn't even stock them or he would have tried to flog the OP one of those too.


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## Kimora (Mar 7, 2012)

dramen said:


> From what i remember they dont have the nervous system there to detect heat on their underbelly so they will just sit on the mat until it burns them.
> *Now i do wonder how at such a low temp is can burn them but i rememebr reading somewhere (Remember reading is not always factual) that heatmats will heat up in certain areas faster if there is something on it. Much because of the heat thats already there from the body heat as opposed to the areas that do not have something on it.*
> Mostly i have seen heatmats mounted in setups on the wall so sitting on it wouldbt be an issue but then what good is a 7w heatmat in a 4ft vivarium? I cant be much good hence why annoyance at it even being there (Although i have seen my dragons sleep up against walls so that could be an issue also)
> 
> ...


That would be Thermoblocking creating hot spots on the mat which can lead to burns. : victory:
Its why many snake keepers (myself included) will advise against the use of mats in a viv for medium to large bodied snakes (i am still pro-mat though for smaller/lighter species).
Now, i don't know how heavy an adult beardie can be (as i have never had the pleasure) BUT based on what i have read and how they can trash a setup...i'm going to assume they have enough weight about them where this may apply. : victory:


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Kimora said:


> That would be Thermoblocking creating hot spots on the mat which can lead to burns. : victory:
> Its why many snake keepers (myself included) will advise against the use of mats in a viv for medium to large bodied snakes (i am still pro-mat though for smaller/lighter species).
> Now, i don't know how heavy an adult beardie can be (as i have never had the pleasure) BUT based on what i have read and how they can trash a setup...i'm going to assume they have enough weight about them where this may apply. : victory:


A full sized adult beardie should weight probably at a guess around 600g's+
Boris is 12 months old and around 550g's (i need to get a proper reading as the tray is too small).
But you can imagine on a 7w heatmat with them laying flat out they can pretty much cover at least 2/3rds of it.
Thanks for the clarification on that as the word "Thermoblocking" was escaping me lol


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

dramen said:


> From what i remember they dont have the nervous system there to detect heat on their underbelly so they will just sit on the mat until it burns them.
> Now i do wonder how at such a low temp is can burn them but i rememebr reading somewhere (Remember reading is not always factual) that heatmats will heat up in certain areas faster if there is something on it. Much because of the heat thats already there from the body heat as opposed to the areas that do not have something on it.
> Mostly i have seen heatmats mounted in setups on the wall so sitting on it wouldbt be an issue but then what good is a 7w heatmat in a 4ft vivarium? I cant be much good hence why annoyance at it even being there (Although i have seen my dragons sleep up against walls so that could be an issue also)
> 
> ...


Ok going to get all technical on ya (what else is new right  ). Not sure if you have library access anywhere or know someone who does, but if so take a look at this article:

Matveyeva, T.M. and Ananjeva, N.B. 1995. The distribution and number of the skin sense organs of agamid, iguanid, and gekkonid lizards. J. Zool. London. 253-268. 

Basically there is no difference between their ability to sense heat on their back or stomachs. They actually have a slightly higher ability to sense it around their caudal scales (vent area). Their best skin sensory perception is around the head of course, which may lead to a possible explanation. The head, being the farthest part away from a heat mat, is what the lizard is looking to get to the optimal temperature primarily. Thus it may stay on too long and get burned on its stomach while its head is still at a much lower temperature. It wont mean that it isnt feeling it on its stomach, just that the head is the primary key for thermoregulation, and other things secondarily. Still a bit of conjecture, but maybe a little closer to the truth.

l also dont think dragons weigh enough to worry about thermoblocking. That usually refers to snakes like retics and burms, and doesnt even normally get considered with snakes like royals or kingsnakes, who weigh much more than a dragon. 

Either way, in this instance the idea is that it would only be used as a way to increase ambient temperatures and not as a basking site, so there is no reason the animal would be laying specifically on it really.


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## bellawbu (Aug 21, 2013)

okay so I bought a thermostat anyway with my heat lamp. i decided to mount it against the wall. i think it'll be okay. thank you for all the replies


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