# Buy a Book



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

ok i dont want anyone to take any offence to this but it has come to my attention that FAR TOO MANY ridiculous questions being asked on this forum. And although I understand that many users on this forum are novice keepers it doesnt detract from the fact that many people on here have purchased animals they simply are not ready for. so I am trying to encourage everyone to 'put off' that next purchase of a royal, a snow corn, a chameleon.... whatever you intended to buy and go look on amazon or something for a decent reference book on the animal you intend to buy. books are invaluable even when they are expensive. for example look for a book called 'the reproductive husbandry of pythons and boas' it will set you back over £100 but I personally don't know where i'd be without it. and i'm not talking about the £5 books published by barrons or D&K i mean REAL books, reference books.. written by ACTUAL herpetologists. Many of the books available in your local rep shop will contain pretty pictures but little substance, they may even touch on a subject you are interested in learning more about but will only really skim the top of it and not delve as deep as you'd like. so in conclusion.... Forums only provide peoples opinions and experiences, I would NEVER offer advice i had not tried and succeeded with, but it doesnt mean it'll work for you. and any scientific tidbits i may offer up arre ALL learned from my herpetological library.

I pledge to buy a new book, I'm thinking about one of the de' vosjolei titles. so its not me having a rant at the inexperienced, Nobody knows it all. knowledge is after all.... power. and it stops wrong advice filtering through on forums and will make you a better keeper in the long run.

who's in? 

: victory:


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## Kylie (Mar 12, 2006)

well said clem!! as you well know i have books for every snake i own and your right they are invaluable!! i would be lost without them. Before i invest in a snake i research them big style.!!!

I'M IN!!


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

My other half bought me two books before I got Freddie,The Complete Ball Python -Kevin McCurley,The Ball Python Manual- Philippe de Vosjoli, both excellent reads :smile:


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Some care sheets online are good.. and research is certainly a must!!

I'd recommend the complete ball python, and VPI Vol 2 Ball pythons.

I've not got much reading material for boa's, or corn's. We have looked through care sheets for those. I'd recommend the VPI DVD on boa's, but that's all I have. We do have a book on leo's..not sure who the author is, but again.. care sheets on-line have provided us with useful info. We're not as experienced in corn's/boa's or leo's... so... i'll leave this bit to others.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

the complete ball python and the complete chondro are the most invaluable books money can buy... seriously. i dont listen to anyones advice about either snake unless it coincides with the very concise info in said books..... buy em !!!!!!!!!


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## candoia aspera (Mar 5, 2007)

there is plenty info out there, there will always be the collect group who will impulse buy (no offence intended) ball pythons which i really belive should be left to more experienced keepers due to the sheer volume of people asking "please help my snake isn't eating".
reaserch is our tools and knowlege is our greatest asset.

however spell check hasn't been invented that i couldn't beat


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i agree, people should at least do some research. at least know the diff. between a boid and colubrid? ( buying a colubrid thinking it was a python) impulse buying causes this and shop owners just trying to make a sale. one should know a little more about snakes than "it does'nt have legs" before purchasing. i can understand if it landed in your lap somehow, but zero knowlage is absurd. that's just me...


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

and of course there is library option........ most of the higher end books will probably have to be ordered in but they will get them for you.
And unless someone else orders it you can just keep renewing for as long as you like.


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Books I love my books. Independant research is great fun aswell (well it is to me lol)

NHBS - For the best books on earth, worldwide

This is a great link for books aswell, hundreds of titles.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

today we have the internet. back in the day, clifford pope's "giant snakes" was the only info i could get for boids. you got a snake and had to figure it out. but today we have it made finding info.


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## Dizaster66 (Jan 28, 2007)

Before I brought my Corn , I had the 'Loves' Corn manual, I may have only had the corn for 6 months , but the book is extremely well thumbed already 

Same goes for my Cali King. Another Herpetological Library publication .

But on the flipside , not everything is covered in books, It still good to get other peoples experiences on x y and z.

I picked up a book the otherday that told me that I should use Aspen chips for my Corn snake , so I tried it instead of the kitchen roll I had been using , okay it loks nicer , but my Corn had a very poor shed, wheich I now found out from other members was probably casused by the aspen chips , because they are too dry. Even though humidity in the viv reads at 58%.

So yes READ READ READ, but also ASK ASK ASK .

Or in other words use EVERY available source of information for your research.

Dizzy


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

I used the internet for my research


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## Dizaster66 (Jan 28, 2007)

skimpy said:


> I used the internet for my research


 
I too also use the Internet for the majority of my research :smile: 
Over 20 years of using various incarnations of the internet is a hard 
habit to shake :lol2: 


But saying that , Not everything you read on the Tinternet is nessecarily
correct , thats why its always nice to bounce ideas of real bods 

During my Corn snake online research , i found 'Ideal Humidity levels' being quoted from 40% to 90% , As a novice which am I to beleive ??

I can use some judgement , ie The website that is all flashy graphics and effects and music may not be the best site to get 'snake' info from:hmm:.

Then on the other hand , maybe it is ? thats why I like to ask


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

I highly recommend "Snakes of the USA and Canada" by Carl and Evelyn Ernst which covers every snake species native to the USA including Rats, Kings, Garters, Milks, Boas and all the venomous species... thoroughly interesting read giving accounts of diet, scale counts, predators, habitat, history, ... brilliant detail.

Also the rat snake bible... Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe Fitzinger by K.D.Schulz. A _must have_ reference for anyone interested in rat snakes.


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Dizaster66 said:


> I too also use the Internet for the majority of my research :smile:
> Over 20 years of using various incarnations of the internet is a hard
> habit to shake :lol2:
> 
> ...


 
I got into the habit of relying on the internet while doing research for my degree. many books on politics and sociology were out of date virtually the moment they went to print, so i didnt waste too much money on books, other than core texts. I haven't invested in books on reptiles, although i have a couple i picked up with basic husbandry etc...the stuff you have to know before getting any reps. Any problems, i like to discuss them through with knowledgable folkies, and search the internet for similar experiences


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Dizaster66 said:


> During my Corn snake online research , i found 'Ideal Humidity levels' being quoted from 40% to 90% , As a novice which am I to beleive ??


Best thing to do IMO is to find out which states of the USA they are native to and find the average temperature and humidity levels for those states over the course of the year.

I did this for my Russian rat snakes and now emulate the wet season of the Amur basin which my snakes seem to thoroughly enjoy.


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

ratboy said:


> Best thing to do IMO is to find out which states of the USA they are native to and find the average temperature and humidity levels for those states over the course of the year.
> 
> I did this for my Russian rat snakes and now emulate the wet season of the Amur basin which my snakes seem to thoroughly enjoy.


Good idea. Get the noses out of one particular book...research widely...including the natural habitat. only then will you be satisfied that your methods are correct. 

If i read conflicting papers regarding humidity, i would continue researching until i found a paper that justified its reasons for humidity at said level, then consider it.


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## wrxadz (Mar 22, 2007)

i have bought a book for every species of snake i have ever owned and while they provide a good basis for keeping your snake whatever it is you just cant beat a good forum, i am a member of many other forums i.e cars i used to be into drag racing and bought loads of books but the guys on my drag racing forum always come through for me, weather it be how to get quicker or how diagnose a problem with my car i always found myself trawling through previous posts and always found what i needed.

So while books are great forums hold far more info from many different sources just be carful what you take as gospel because some people talk rubbish.


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

Im going to shift this to general as ALL herp owners should be doing their reading, not just snake lovers


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i know it gets muggy as hell most of the yar down south. in goergia you can find corns with snow on the ground just under wood and tin sheets. they can deal with just fine.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

dizzy - you'll find if you leave him on it, that his sheds will come back to normal after a while..

a lot of mine have a real ropey first shed when i put them on gold chip the first time..

the other thing, is to have a moss box in there during shed.. that can help.. in fact it helps so much i keep royals on gold chip, with big moss boxes, and even they shed ok (and i only spray the amazons/gtps.. nothing else generally)

N


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

ratboy, i agree the first thing is getting to know the natural habitat. having traveled all over the states, some people would be surprised at the actual climate of diff areas. people may think i go on too much about places i've collected and lived in, but i reasoned some would like a little first hand knowlage. my first rule is "give 'em what they want" and knowing the habitat and swings in the weather is an important insight to their care. but that's just me.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

HABU said:


> ratboy, i agree the first thing is getting to know the natural habitat. having traveled all over the states, some people would be surprised at the actual climate of diff areas. people may think i go on too much about places i've collected and lived in, but i reasoned some would like a little first hand knowlage. my first rule is "give 'em what they want" and knowing the habitat and swings in the weather is an important insight to their care. but that's just me.


Totally agree Habu. I have a grey rat snake that I used to keep at corn snake temperatures (85F) as advised by care sheets and he was as grumpy as hell. A little research into the temperatures in areas of Georgia, Mississippi, Kentucky, Tennessee and Alabama and I now keep him at 81F, raised to 83F when digesting and he is much calmer and uses all of the vivarium.

He now only gets upset when I do something that really annoys him.... like breathe


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

give them choices is what i say. a snake will go where he's most comfortable.in a small cage they are dependant on the keeper to maintian things to their liking. this is one reason i am puzzled by a lot of posts that emphasize a small cage or else the snake will be stressed. is all of outdoors pretty big? are all snakes living in the big outdoors stressed? it just puzzles me a bit . anyone clue me in? p.s. ratboy i used to visit friends in carlton, georgia. like florida it's pine needle city. is that a good substrate?


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

HABU said:


> give them choices is what i say. a snake will go where he's most comfortable.in a small cage they are dependant on the keeper to maintian things to their liking. this is one reason i am puzzled by a lot of posts that emphasize a small cage or else the snake will be stressed. is all of outdoors pretty big? are all snakes living in the big outdoors stressed? it just puzzles me a bit . anyone clue me in? p.s. ratboy i used to visit friends in carlton, georgia. like florida it's pine needle city. is that a good substrate?


the small viv thing confuffles me a bit too. My royal was in a very small viv when i got her, then went to a 4 footer. she decided to go on hunger strike. i was advised on the forum to return her to the smaller viv. i didnt (naughty!). I am glad we persevered with the larger viv, as she likes it now, is eatingwell, and she can move around a bit. theres room for a soaking bowl, various hides, big piece of cork bark and lots of plants. i think she owuld prefer that any day over a wee viv.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

the main thing people forget with young snakes, is that their main aim in life is to stay alive until they are big enough to make more young snakes..

basically, a young royals life consists of eat, hide, shit, hide, shed, hide, eat, hide, shit, hide. etc etc etc

so.. small vivs with lots of cover mean they can fulfil the "hide" part well..

young snakes aren't like young kids.. they don;t have a desire to get out in the garden and play.. their main worry in life is not being eaten by something.. and finding food themselves.. so sometimes big empty vivs can be very daunting..

a young snakes doesn't feel safe if its on exposed ground with no escape hole (or hide) so a large viv, with a hide at each end, can sometimes lead to the snake being too wary to cross the open groud bewteen the two.. especially if they can then hear and sense large things moving about outside the viv/hide.. to a small snake, most big things are harmful.. even just being stepped on by a grazer is bad news for a young snake..

this is why a lot of peope advise keeping small snakes in small enclosures...

N


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Nerys said:


> the main thing people forget with young snakes, is that their main aim in life is to stay alive until they are big enough to make more young snakes..
> 
> basically, a young royals life consists of eat, hide, shit, hide, shed, hide, eat, hide, shit, hide. etc etc etc
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the clarification. my royal is 6, so i felt the necessity to persevere with the larger viv...and the fact it was part of the furniture in the living room! the environment is a lot better now, and she has settled in to it well.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i'd seen people with babies in 4ft vivs doing fine yeah.. its more the viv, and how its set up, than the snake.. of course you get exceptions to the rule, but generally.. there is no reason why a royal can't do fine in a 4ft viv, as long as there is enough in there, and its at the right temps, 

good to know she is doing well anyway 

N


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

I have quite a range of books on exotic pets I had to because 7 years ago there was not nearly as much info on the net as there is today. I have a couple of books by P de vosjoli myself and the book I have by him on lizards and one on beardies and lawson dragons are unbeleivably good books even though a good few years old they still have all the info that need today. The only book by him I got rid of was arachnomania as it was very dated. I agree I think books are a very good source of info and go into more detail. I have a book on keeping and breeding snakes written bt Chris Mattison and is one of the best books. I want to get the encyclopedia on the terrarium but havent got round it yet


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

don't stop the bandwagon jumping and flaming but hey what do i know...
why only say it here?more basic questions said elsewhere or is it the case itll be removed in seconds and instant warning as the mods love to make people feel inadequate OR its not considered as some are mods there and don't want the hassle so bring it elsewhere....
here is one of the most relaxed sites on the net with some really helpful people..why i stay here

i have quite a few books and really good information in them


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## leogirl (Oct 1, 2006)

ive got loads of books on all the animals ive got. ok i havent got many but still lol. and ive got loads on other reptiles too ... just coz i like to learn and coz i like to read in the bath ... as much as i would love to i cant take my laptop in the bath with me


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

I have a fair few books aswell, does anybody know of any good, in depth books about Pythons? Not specifically ROyals or Chondros etc but just all round? I already have the Living Pythons and it is good, but the bloke who wrote it even stated that he just compiled notes and wasnt a keeper himself! Any suggestions?


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