# Getting a patterjack puppy!!



## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

TOMORROW!!!

Weeeeeeee!!!!!!

Okay, for a reason not just for the sake of it, but I can still get excited!
He's going to be my new anxiety support dog so that I can start going out on my own more, and further afield. My current dog who sort of just became my support by being perfect is too old to do much more than a trip to the co op, meaning unless I have someone with me, that's about the limit of my excursions if I'm having a bad day, apart from work, and also, hopefully when he's bigger he'll be a PAT dog 

I will post proper photos once I get him!

Legally docked too, a proper little terrier, just thought I'd put that so people don't have a fit when they see a docked tail.

This is the advert picture











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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Good luck with him.
I've Hurd pattadale terriers can be hard to keep as pets as there bred for there working ability, so you need to keep them occupied with a job to do. Don't know how true it is.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Patterdales are a nightmare lol. They get bored very easily so make sure you have plenty of stuff to keep it entertained


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## bonzosbuddy (Aug 31, 2013)

Awwwww! When I was private cleaning a client got one of these and he was mental but lovely. Terriers tend to be head strong so be strong and firm and don't give in to that " wasn't me " look.
Watch him/her around other smaller pets coz thy are keen ratters and expect a bird or 2 if you have a garden.
Good luck and enjoy... I had to give my doggy up when my relationship broke down amd it broke my heart more than the relationshit haha!
Looks like you've got a full house!


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## Rogue665 (Mar 17, 2010)

One of the worst breeds to help with anxiety..their extremely high strung...they are hunters and have a very high prey drive, that i have not witnessed it being able to be curved it into something positive im afraid..
he will definitely need puppy classes asap and a strict regime with other animals and pets.
He's cute good luck.:flrt:

Also there is no legal docking anymore unless breeders can prove their pups are going to be worked, this breeder obviousely didn't sell it to be worked but as a pet which is illegal and their assholes for doing it, they got around the system and if found out they would lose the kc registration of breeders and get fined, but he is isn't a kc breeder anyways he's just a back yard breeder and what he done is illegal and he got paid for it....also that picture is heart breaking...where were they bred it looks like a shed.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Rogue665 said:


> Also there is no legal docking anymore unless breeders can prove their pups are going to be worked, this breeder obviousely didn't sell it to be worked but as a pet which is illegal and their assholes for doing it, they got around the system and if found out they would lose the kc registration of breeders and get fined, but he is isn't a kc breeder anyways he's just a back yard breeder and what he done is illegal and he got paid for it....also that picture is heart breaking...where were they bred it looks like a shed.


From what I've been told as long as one pup in a litter is intended to be worked the whole litter can be docked as you won't know which pup will be suitable to be a working dog at under 3 days old. Is that not true?

Many people seem to be using the working excuse to dock litters that they intend to sell as pets as they state the parents are pets so someone looking for a working do would be getting it from proven parents not pets.
Then you have the Dobermans from Ireland who are docked, now you even get docked and cropped one's from Europe now being sold for high prices.


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## Rogue665 (Mar 17, 2010)

PPVallhunds said:


> From what I've been told as long as one pup in a litter is intended to be worked the whole litter can be docked as you won't know which pup will be suitable to be a working dog at under 3 days old. Is that not true?
> 
> Many people seem to be using the working excuse to dock litters that they intend to sell as pets as they state the parents are pets so someone looking for a working do would be getting it from proven parents not pets.
> Then you have the Dobermans from Ireland who are docked, now you even get docked and cropped one's from Europe now being sold for high prices.


the top part is true unfortunately...but any responsible breeder would line how working homes..respectable homes long before they decide to breed their bitch. however i very doubt this "breeder" knows or cares breeding mutts really doesn't earn him browny points.


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## johnre14 (Aug 30, 2012)

I have a patterdale, and have dealt with many others.... They are not all highly strung at all, mine is very relaxed and easy going, she is obviously very energetic but also happy to relax and do nothing, and she certainly doesn't have any anxiety issues! 

Yes there are breed predispositions, but it depends how you raise them.... certainly patterdales are not in my top ten of highly strung breeds by any stretch!!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

I've had terriers my whole life, so I know what I'm dealing with and so far; in just a day, I've had the best day in a long time at work. I wasn't constantly looking over my shoulder or worrying and I'm already planning my first trip out on my own (with him) to a Christmas Market once his injections are all done.
I wanted a highly strung, excitable dog, my Collie was my 'helper' before him but she's too old to do much more than a trip to the local shop now. Collies are crazy if they aren't properly stimulated.
I used to go out running, walking, cycling, random trips to London, all over, on my own or with a dog, but since she's gotten older I've found myself inside more unless I can find someone to take me somewhere because I won't go on my own.
Now I don't have to.

His parents are working terriers, we have all the paperwork to prove his docking was legally carried out by a vet.
Technically he will be a working dog, not a ratter unless my uncle needs a hand on his land; but an assistance dog. 

It was a planned breeding and all but 2 pups had homes before they were born, all to working homes, my guy is the only one that's not gone on a farm.
He's not a mutt, he's a terrier. 

Mums a dog handler and animal behaviourist, for over 25 years, so I think we'll cope.

I love him so much.

He was NOT in a shed, the lady that bred him worked in a stable yard and took the puppies with her to the yard when she wasn't at home so they didn't get stolen. When we went to collect him, him and his remaining sister were in a little area just off the kitchen with a squishy bed and nice clean floor. You could tell she adored them and they adored her. I think making assumptions based on one picture is way out of order.
She's probably one of the most responsible breeders I've met/spoken to since I started looking for a puppy.
All micro chipped, wormed, vet checked, free of any fleas. Puppies were confident, kissy, chunky little things.
I was quizzed to within an inch of my life. 

Wish I'd never posted on here now, typical for RFUK to pick out any little thing in what was supposed to be a happy post, celebrating a puppy that's going to give me my indipendance back.
I'm 23, I've had dogs all my life but Flynn is the FIRST puppy I have chosen myself, chosen by me, for me and I am absolutely in love with him.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

He's a cutie, hope it works out and you get your independence back, sucks feeling so withdrawn, and isolated all the time.

Jee, people can be harsh and presumptuous sometimes. The law is actually not that firm with the docking of working breeds and it says something like 'If there is reasonable expectation that some of the litter will go to working homes...', people do get around it and dock entire litters of puppies from pets regularly, but you could have asked before just assuming. Farmers will cross terriers for workers, they don't need pedigrees for ratting.


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> I've had terriers my whole life, so I know what I'm dealing with and so far; in just a day, I've had the best day in a long time at work. I wasn't constantly looking over my shoulder or worrying and I'm already planning my first trip out on my own (with him) to a Christmas Market once his injections are all done.
> I wanted a highly strung, excitable dog, my Collie was my 'helper' before him but she's too old to do much more than a trip to the local shop now. Collies are crazy if they aren't properly stimulated.
> I used to go out running, walking, cycling, random trips to London, all over, on my own or with a dog, but since she's gotten older I've found myself inside more unless I can find someone to take me somewhere because I won't go on my own.
> Now I don't have to.
> ...


..........


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

I appreciate that people were concerned and 99% of them were trying to be constructive but a couple made assumptions on a breeder and me based on ONE photo.
If someone had reservations on the breeder or legality of the docking they should have PM'd me so I could explain it all privately rather than on my thread making me feel like I'd done something wrong, when know I haven't.
I did research the breed/mix before chosing a puppy as is sensible, and despite there being the same mixes closer by, decided to travel over 1 hour to this breeder because she was the best and most knowledgable. I've already sent her an update, and she's asked to be kept up to date on his training as my assistance dog, she's really interested.

Anyway, little man has well and truly settled in.
Our bullmastiff cross, Logan, is his favourite and Logan adores him, he gives him lots of slobbery kisses and rolls on his back so Flynn can jump all over him, then when we take Flynn away, Logan sits by the door and whines...
Floss and Leo prefer to ignore him, and Dally wants to play with him but she's too rough at the moment.
His favourite toy is the Nylabone.
He's using the paper to pee and poop already as he's learned how to get into the food bag..... -_-
He's too small to go upstairs on his own.
He met my brother today, George brought out the terrier in him, he was tug of warring, digging his hand and growling (playfully) which I've missed, terriers attitudes are the best. 
He's really smart, sits for his dinner. I can't wait to start his proper training. I want to see about getting back into Agilty; I called him over last night and he came zooming in and leapt over Floss' back like it was nothing. My collie used to do it, I think Flynn will love it.
He also do this really weird thing when he's eating, he gets so excited his back end lifts up so he's doing a handstand! Weirdo.

























This is him when we woke up this morning.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

My comments wernt ment as criticism just saying what I had been told about the breed. Hope you didn't read it that way. 

If he is a good jumper might be worth looking at flyball, I wanted to do agility but don't think I could ever compete as I don't think I could rember a course, also prob not fit enough to run around one either lol but my girl LOVES flyball


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

PPVallhunds said:


> My comments wernt ment as criticism just saying what I had been told about the breed. Hope you didn't read it that way.
> 
> If he is a good jumper might be worth looking at flyball, I wanted to do agility but don't think I could ever compete as I don't think I could rember a course, also prob not fit enough to run around one either lol but my girl LOVES flyball


Flyball looks like fun! Would a terrier be fast enough though?

Flynn, really doesn't want to sleep tonight.


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## Draco (Nov 23, 2005)

I love patterdales, and would love one, but sadly I can't walk much.

It so sad people have jumped to there own conclutions just from what they have read and one pic.

sound like he will be a good match for your house and what you want from him.

hope you keep us updated on how he grows and matures


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Draco said:


> I love patterdales, and would love one, but sadly I can't walk much.
> 
> It so sad people have jumped to there own conclutions just from what they have read and one pic.
> 
> ...



Happens quite a lot on here TBH.



He kept me up nearly all night, he couldn't decide whether he wanted to sleep up by my face or down by my feet (under the cover) and whenever I turned over or took my arm from around him, he woke up and licked my neck/face/ears until I cuddled him again.
Oh dear, haha.
Floss slept upstairs too last night, she's not wanted to since I got him, so that's good for her 
She sleeps by my bed though, she's never been one to want cuddles.
When I woke up for work, Flynn was full of energy and Floss was just giving me this 'why are you doing this to me? I've done the puppy thing, TWICE, this one isn't even mine' look.
I think she'll give into him soon, he was rip tear assing aroud her last night with the blanket and I could tell she wanted to play, but wouldn't because I was watching and Leo was in the room.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> Flyball looks like fun! Would a terrier be fast enough though?
> 
> Flynn, really doesn't want to sleep tonight.
> 
> ...


Being a working ratting breed I'd imagin he will be a quick little dog. 

Most teams want a small dog, as under the British Flyball Ascoiation the jumps are set to the right hight for the smallest dog in the team. That dog is called a height dog, the idea tight change overs and the bigger dogs will make up for a slightly brop in speed of the smaller dog. Don't even bother with KC flyball it's biased towards big dogs as the jumps are 12Inc for all dogs no matter there size, there is a minimum jump hight for BFA, can't rember what it is.

The competition I went to there were a few teriers there. My girl is 13Inc so if she runs the jumps will be about 9-10Inc and the rest of the team are collies and collie crosses (one has sighthound in him has the legs and speed of a horse!) At the comp we didn't have the fastest dog with us but we still had the fastest run time out of the 12 starter teams.

From the people I've met Its been more about having fun with there dogs than being the fastest team ever.
There is a Jack Russel who trains with our team they never plan to compete just train for fun.


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## bonzosbuddy (Aug 31, 2013)

Good on ya girl! It seems many of these "concerned members" constantly bang on about "trolls " and "bad owners" on these forums and yet they are the ones who are very quick to judge. A couple have pulled me up on pointing this out and I see it for what it is... Bullying.
Enjoy being as normal as you want to be and enjoy your pets!


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## bonzosbuddy (Aug 31, 2013)

Draco said:


> I love patterdales, and would love one, but sadly I can't walk much.
> 
> It so sad people have jumped to there own conclutions just from what they have read and one pic.
> 
> ...


I don't think its sad... its pretty pathetic if you ask me. I have a couple on my friends list that I will be removing as I don't want to be associated with that attitude.


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## VixxieandTrixxie (Mar 20, 2012)

Aw Charlie he is delicious!!! :flrt:

Such a cutie good luck with him :2thumb:


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

So we're at week 2 with us now and Flynn has well and truly come out if his shell.
He has his first injections when mum took him on Friday and went on a carried outing with mum and I to the local farmers market on Sunday and EVERYONE loved him. He was super curious and listening to everything.

He's a crazy whirlwind but a absolute darling.
He's happy to play AND snuggle and can sit and beg already.
We've started him on a RAW food diet which is going down a treat and he loves lamb bones.

I bought him a little wax jacket for his day out.









And when we got home he wanted lots of cuddles and had a big sleep.

















When I'm working mum babysits him and has finally made the proper introductions between him and the Malinois and it's was complete success, they played happily for about an hour until he was pooped and now they terrorise each other!

The Sprollie, Floss, had taken to him like he's her puppy, though it took a few days. Now she lets him curl up with her, cleans his ears and face and plays tug of war with him.
She happy for him to sleep in my room with us too, no more grumbles.

I'm so happy with how he's fit into our little pack and how he's developing, just need his second injections and then he can have proper walks.
He's such a fantastic little dog.




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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Can I assume that you still live at home? if not are all the dogs yours, if so how do you walk them if you can't go outside, he's a lovely pup, I have a papillon/chihuahua which hubby bought me at the begin of the year. Milo is great company for me as I don't work anymore and gives me an excuse for walking every where, we used to have 2 jack russels and after they died said we'd never have anymore but we don't know what we'd do without Milo, here he is looking very snooty


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

This is one of the reasons I rarely come on rfuk anymore.
Someone posts a post about their new puppy and how happy they are etc and it turns into them having to explain the whys and wherefores.
If it's not a debate about cross breeds its slagging off breeders or making assumptions about where a dog was reared.
The laughable thing about the latter of these debates. .. the dogs being raised in a shed... is that a picture doesn't tell you all about the dogs anyway... are we to assume that a picture of puppies nestled on a sofa automatically means they were better raised?

I hope your new dog brings you lots of joy and helps you get better. 
I don't know how you and your mum do it... with all those dogs! Lol.
You must be very dedicated. 

All the best and good luck on your journey to feeling better.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

(Disclaimer: this isn't jumping on the flaming bandwagon, so please don't read as such.)

Genuine question…..why can pups have their tails docked if they're going to be used for work? What difference does it make? I can't stand tail docking…makes a dog look really sad. So much nicer and often surprising to see those breeds that traditionally had it done now all wagging away


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

annsimpson1 said:


> Can I assume that you still live at home? if not are all the dogs yours, if so how do you walk them if you can't go outside, he's a lovely pup,





Rawwwrchazli said:


> My current dog who sort of just became my support by being perfect is too old to do much more than a trip to the co op, meaning unless I have someone with me, that's about the limit of my excursions if I'm having a bad day, apart from work, and also, hopefully when he's bigger he'll be a PAT dog


 



Rawwwrchazli said:


> Mums a dog handler and animal behaviourist, for over 25 years, so I think we'll cope.





Rawwwrchazli said:


> I'm 23, I've had dogs all my life but Flynn is the FIRST puppy I have chosen myself, chosen by me, for me and I am absolutely in love with him


Most of the information is there if you read her posts.


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

A) yes they are all mine.
B) yes I do still live at home.
C) I can go outside alone and walk all my dogs daily, I also have a job, I just can't go to crowded places like the town or London or any cities with out company, I used to take my CollieX but she's too old now so I have Flynn now.



And for the genuine asker RE Docking.

Working dogs like terriers have their tails docked to prevent then getting trapped when they are working. Or bitten by rats.
Barbed wire fences/bramble could snag a dogs tail or if it's goes down a rabbit/fox/badger den they risk injury from the animal they are perusing. 
A tail injury could be disastrous so they are docked to give the animal they chase one less thing to grab onto.
Same with dew claws, it means they can't get caught and ripped.
They don't know they're tails are smaller: Flynn has a long dock and can wag his tail just and crazy as and full tailed dog.
He may also be used as a worker once he's older if he can't be a PAT dog, but primarily he is MY support dog.
I prefer terriers docked, simply because they will work regardless of training and I would prefer to remove that danger where possible. Especially as I live right next to a stable and we get rats in our garden from the barns. Done properly at 3 days old, they don't know it's happened.
We've always had working dogs in my house.
We've had many a terrier disappear down a fox hole and IF Mr Fox had been home it might have even a problem, but luckily he wasn't.
If one puppy in a litter is guaranteed a working home it is practice to Dock the whole litter. As has been previously stated, it's impossible to know which puppy with have the right attitude and instincts to be a worker at 3 days old. A 10 puppy litter might have one or two that will make a decent worker.
If NO puppies in a litter are going to be working then NONE should be docked.




I really wish people would READ my previous posts before commenting again as I am getting fed up of repeating myself.

This is a thread I celebrate my little Flynnie and if people disagree with working dogs, docking or whatever else you want to find fault in; please take it elsewhere or PM me.
This little dog has made me so happy in the last 2 weeks; I love him way more that words can describe.










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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Rach1 said:


> This is one of the reasons I rarely come on rfuk anymore.
> Someone posts a post about their new puppy and how happy they are etc and it turns into them having to explain the whys and wherefores.
> If it's not a debate about cross breeds its slagging off breeders or making assumptions about where a dog was reared.
> The laughable thing about the latter of these debates. .. the dogs being raised in a shed... is that a picture doesn't tell you all about the dogs anyway... are we to assume that a picture of puppies nestled on a sofa automatically means they were better raised?
> ...


Mhmmm.


Thanks Rach  it's not too hard really, Dally is a working Security dog so she sleeps most of the day an works with my mum at night,
Floss is just an old girl so she's always dosing...or eating...unless Fylnn is jumping all over her, then she reverts back to being a puppy herself.
The best thing about coming back from work is Floss and Flynn waiting by the door; and I get lots of slobbery kisses from Dally every morning before work.
Amazing how dogs can make us so happy.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> And for the genuine asker RE Docking.
> 
> Working dogs like terriers have their tails docked to prevent then getting trapped when they are working. Or bitten by rats.
> Barbed wire fences/bramble could snag a dogs tail or if it's goes down a rabbit/fox/badger den they risk injury from the animal they are perusing.
> ...


Well pardon me for asking!:whistling2: It may amaze you, but some folk might not know what a "PAT dog" is! There's no need for that kind of snottiness.

So, _you're in favour_ of docking then….I can kind of (though not wholly) understand the barb wire thing and all that, but you just said that you _prefer_ them that way. Then why the big disclaimer at the start of the thread? If you approve of these kind of unnecessary and pretty awful procedures, then at least have the courage of your convictions and don't make excuses for it.

To me, it's right up there with having claws removed from cats and de-fanging coatis!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Well pardon me for asking!:whistling2: It may amaze you, but some folk might not know what a "PAT dog" is! There's no need for that kind of snottiness.
> 
> So, _you're in favour_ of docking then….I can kind of (though not wholly) understand the barb wire thing and all that, but you just said that you _prefer_ them that way. Then why the big disclaimer at the start of the thread? If you approve of these kind of unnecessary and pretty awful procedures, then at least have the courage of your convictions and don't make excuses for it.
> 
> To me, it's right up there with having claws removed from cats and de-fanging coatis!


I didn't mean for my reply to you to come across as snotty at all! I put the smiley face there because I realised you were generally interested and asking in a way that wasn't like the others previously. I'm really sorry.

I don't prefer the docked tails as a vanity thing, a dog that's not worked should ideally not have it's tail docked but Flynn is from a litter where a majority of them went to working homes, and when I terrier is to be worked as a person raised in a working dog home, I would prefer for a worker to have a docked tail. 
My disclaimer was just saying that they are done by a vet, legally. When I say 'proper little terrier' I mean like from the old days with the docked tail and dew claws.

A PAT dog isn't a farm worker, it's a Pets As Therapy Dog, which if Flynn passes the tests when he's older, I want him to be, instead of a working dog as he was not bought to be farm worked, but being a terrier he needs stimulation and going to new places will do that for him. He's been picked especially to help me; and when he's helped me he can help others 
I chose him because I liked the mix he is, not because of his tail; he just comes with that; and yes I did get a bit nostalgic because I remembered the terrier puppies we use to have as kids when my mum bred them with their waggy bums and stumpy tails; but had there been a Flynn with that breeder with a full tail I would have picked that one for the job he's going to do.
She was the best breeder I spoke to. I've said there were similar mixes close by and they would have likely had full tails, but she was by far the most knowledgeable and didn't pause when I told her what he was for; instead she asked questions so I could have the right puppy with the right personality. I would rather have a puppy from her, with a docked tail, then a full tailed puppy from someone who's little was accidental or someone who didn't agree with what he's for.
Having said that, having a docked tail around here, like I said, will hold him in good stead IF he did go and do what terriers do.

Again, I am sorry for sounding like a bitch. I was genuinely trying not to; I guess I'm not very good at that.
No I'm not against Docking.
I don't think pets should have it done and if it were possible to know which pups would make good workers from birth then, in an ideal world ONLY the workers would be docked, but that's not possible.
IF, which I likely won't, ever had a bitch terrier and let her have pups with Flynn, they wouldn't have docked tails because they would have been born in to a pet home (as I have no intention to work the bitch or Flynn as 'official Farm workers'), to be pets, not a working home like Flynn was born into.
We have a security dog and a retired collie, no more working terriers like when I was growing up so they are pets and puppies would be sold as such.
But like I say, puppies are not on the cards, not for Flynn anyway. We are going to mate the Malinois....god help us all.
If Flynn catches a rat that strays into my garden at night...draft rat, though obviously I would prefer him not to kill a rat, he's a terrier. If he does, he does. As long as it's not dropped by my feet like our old farm worker, Rogue, used to do.
Playing sims on the PC and having a massacred rat dropped by your feet is NOT cool.

I hope that clears things up a bit and again I'm sorry.



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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

your new puppy is lovely. looks a real sweetheart. Im glad you are already getting a lot of love and joy from owning him. as for those making assumptions etc, ignore them, some need to get their own house in order before judging/commenting on anyone else.
Hope all goes well for you hun and you can start enjoying a bit more freedom again soon.


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

Your pup is so cute I love the photos where he grins and showing his teeth that's such a terrier thing, my female German shepherd use to catch and kill rats and then leave them at the bottom of the stairs. Good luck with trying PAT


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

mitsi said:


> your new puppy is lovely. looks a real sweetheart. Im glad you are already getting a lot of love and joy from owning him. as for those making assumptions etc, ignore them, some need to get their own house in order before judging/commenting on anyone else.
> Hope all goes well for you hun and you can start enjoying a bit more freedom again soon.





lisadew24 said:


> Your pup is so cute I love the photos where he grins and showing his teeth that's such a terrier thing, my female German shepherd use to catch and kill rats and then leave them at the bottom of the stairs. Good luck with trying PAT


Thanks guys,
^.^ he's the best. He's a little bugger for nipping though, so we're working on that at the moment. It's expected though he's still learning. 
Can't wait until I can take him out on a lead, it's going to be dead weird walking a tiny dog though...
I think I'm going to need a lot of luck getting him into PAT, buuuuut having said that he'll have a history as a service dog with me so that should hold him in good stead. I hope.



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## Reptitat (Nov 28, 2013)

I have a anxious helper dog, too. She's tiny, only around 7 inches tall but she really helps. I've always hated being out in public, and I still do but I feel that she has helped me a lot. People come up to us and say how cute she is. It really makes me feel confident. You won't regret it!


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