# Brumating Corn Snakes



## Spades (3 mo ago)

I recently received a rehomed corn snake from someone who had him as a pet for around 15 years. I don't have an exact age, but he's never been brumated. He did come with a mild RI which he seems to be over, but I decided not to attempt brumation for that reason (and for the fact I've never done it before, being an exclusive python owner until now).

While I have a general understanding of brumating corns, I'm more wondering about brumating a corn who is fairly old now and has never gone through the process before. Is it a good idea to put him down for brumation next year or do I risk doing him more harm than good given his age and lack of experience of it?

I'm keen to brumate any snakes I have that do go through the process in their natural range as I've heard of the potential health benefits, but his welfare comes first of course.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

I've kept corns for well over 25yrs and never brumated them and it's never caused any known health issues. The one corn we had from a baby lived for nearly 25yrs. The rest are,or have been, rescues.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

Corns certainly don't brumate in all parts of their range. 

Brumation can be hard on animals. Of the very few established snakes I've lost over the years, probably half were losses associated with brumation, and none of these were obvious accidents like temperature variances or spilled water bowls. 

Without a clear and specific reason or set of reasons to brumate, I would not do it. Choosing known successful husbandry measures over mere emulation of wild conditions is best practice; whether brumation is adaptive in wild conditions doesn't directly dictate whether it is beneficial in captive conditions.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

In the 90's when bog standard Corns could be sold straight out of the egg for £10 a pop (ahh the god 'ol days) I used to brumate my corns and Gt Plains by tubbing them up in a suitable RUB filled with soft paper strips substrate and a water bowl and placing the tubs on top of the wardrobe in the bedroom which around December / January would drop down to around 16c - 18c at night. I never went to the extreme of using a fridge as some people used to. Not sure if it made any bearing, but I would get a 100% success rate from the clutches the following season. 

My female Bairds naturally brumates herself. She stops feeding by her own choice around end October / beginning November and won't take anything until late February / early March the next year, Then when she starts eating has a very strong food drive.

If you have no intention to breed from the snakes then I would simply let them make the choice to brumate or not depending on how your set up dictates the environmental conditions rather than you forcing a brumation period. That's not to say a pair of Corns that eat through winter and are not brumated will not breed the following season.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

One thing nobody has touched on is that quite a few people (in particular outdoor keepers but also indoor keepers) have often noted that animals that were not hibernated as young specimens seem to adapt more poorly to being hibernated as they get older. With animals this old that have never gone through the process, I would probably just not do it to be safe (especially if the animal recently was ill) - Corn snakes do not hibernate across the entirety of their range anyway and you can certainly get away with not doing so. Personally I hibernate my babies from the year they were born and have never experienced any issues - on the contrary it always surprises me how active and toned, and how little weight loss has occurred the following Spring. But enough people have mentioned this to make me wonder whether there is any truth in it.

For me personally, I always hibernate my animals where they would naturally do so. While many keepers state 'there are no side effects to not doing so,' the process of hibernation has quite a profound impact on snake physiology and in at least some cases seems to result in longer lifespan. I believe this has been shown in rat snakes (_Pantherophis_), rattlesnakes (_Crotalus_), Tiger snakes (_Notechis_) and Garter snakes (_Thamnophis_) although they may be more. I think in this particular case there would be an argument to not hibernate the snake but I also think seasonal cycling should be the norm.

I do suspect one of the main reasons people get issues during brumation is they simply are not cooling their snakes enough. There seems to be a sweet spot (10c) with best results coming from temperatures under 10C and just a 5C variance not giving the same results. Because pet keepers are used to providing much higher temperatures to their pets, I do wonder if many people actually are unaware of how low night temperatures can go in their ranges while they remain active and I wonder whether not lowering them enough (and triggering true hibernation) means the animal is skirting on the edge of hibernation - not quite hibernating but not fully active - and could suffer increased risk to illnesses from extended cold temps and reduced feeding.

We know that it is temperature that induces seasonal reproductive behaviour and endocrine activity in at least some temperate-climate snakes; for example sex steroid hormone levels, diel melatonin and corticosteroid rhythms, and expression of reproductive behaviour after emergence from hibernation are all affected by this hibernation temperature - to the extent that in some experiments a simple difference of just 5C during hibernation had a very significant impact (e.g. increase in melatonin, decrease in corticosteroids, altering androgen and corticosterone profiles). These differences even persisted after the snakes were returned to a lower temperature. Males kept at warmer temperatures also had a delayed onset to reproductive behaviour the following year. Importantly, body mass profile did not change at either temperature which indicates that these endocrine changes WERE as a result of temperature and therefore temperature does have significant impact on breeding and in triggering hibernation.

In some experiments, lack of hibernation at low temperatures was so profound on females that those that were not exposed to long periods of total darkness and low temperatures experienced ovarian regression that persisted for over a year, including involuted follicles and a loss in ovarian gonadotrophin receptors. Interestingly, these females (that were not hibernated and kept at higher temperatures) were the most attractive to courting males... and also non-receptive to breeding advances.

Many people that will not try to breed their snakes seem to think that since this relates mainly to breeding, it is OK to skip hibernation. I personally am not a fan of this and I do wonder how many health issues down the line could be avoided by allowing the snakes to follow their natural cycles - although of course there is a huge amount of leeway in what those cycles might be depending on species of snake and their locality of origin.


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## Spades (3 mo ago)

Thank you everyone for your responses - I don't think I'll ever attempt brumating this particular corn. Not just because of his RI, but also because he's certainly showed signs of slowing down and lacking capacity to hold himself upright as much. As before, his welfare comes first and the last thing I would want to do is put him down to brumate unnecessarily and at potential risk to him.

If he were to show signs of inducing his own brumation, I'd probably consider it - but given he's 15 years in without it, I doubt it!



Thrasops said:


> One thing nobody has touched on is that quite a few people (in particular outdoor keepers but also indoor keepers) have often noted that animals that were not hibernated as young specimens seem to adapt more poorly to being hibernated as they get older. With animals this old that have never gone through the process, I would probably just not do it to be safe (especially if the animal recently was ill) - Corn snakes do not hibernate across the entirety of their range anyway and you can certainly get away with not doing so. Personally I hibernate my babies from the year they were born and have never experienced any issues - on the contrary it always surprises me how active and toned, and how little weight loss has occurred the following Spring. But enough people have mentioned this to make me wonder whether there is any truth in it.
> 
> For me personally, I always hibernate my animals where they would naturally do so. While many keepers state 'there are no side effects to not doing so,' the process of hibernation has quite a profound impact on snake physiology and in at least some cases seems to result in longer lifespan. I believe this has been shown in rat snakes (_Pantherophis_), rattlesnakes (_Crotalus_), Tiger snakes (_Notechis_) and Garter snakes (_Thamnophis_) although they may be more. I think in this particular case there would be an argument to not hibernate the snake but I also think seasonal cycling should be the norm.
> 
> ...


I have to say I was hoping you'd respond here as I've seen a lot of your content on the R&R podcast and in AHH. Having seen some of your posts on brumation, that was one of the first reasons I even considered it, but didn't want to go into it entirely uninitiated. Although I do now agree that brumating the corn isn't the best idea given his health and condition, I am looking into Asian rat snakes so brumating is very much top of my research list. It's interesting to hear you brumate your babies from their first year as I've seen lots of people saying they don't for the first 1-2 years, but have always considered why this would be the case (except in troublesome feeders, slow starters, or sick snakes) given the babies would experience the same cycles in the wild. Definitely food for thought, so thanks for your input!


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Spades said:


> It's interesting to hear you brumate your babies from their first year as I've seen lots of people saying they don't for the first 1-2 years, but have always considered why this would be the case (except in troublesome feeders, slow starters, or sick snakes) given the babies would experience the same cycles in the wild. Definitely food for thought, so thanks for your input!


With some species, late hatching babies often won't even eat until after a brumation. I have had this be the case with Aesculapian snakes (_Zamenis longissimus_) and late hatching Grass snakes (_Natrix helvetica_). I am told it is sometimes the case with Moellendorff's rat snakes (_Elaphe moellendorffi_) by some European breeders I know too, although I don't have experience with that particular species. So I always thought the whole 'don't brumate babies' thing was a bit odd. Certainly they could maybe do with a slightly shorter cold period I guess.


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