# Oophaga pumilio



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi guys,

Some of you may remember I spoke about trying with darts a while ago.

I even went as far as attempting to culture some fruit flies, which went tits up.

Well my interest has still been there, and id like to give this a serious go now. We purchased our own house two years ago and are finally sorted.

So why not start a new project?

I've been looking at various species, and as the title says, im interested in Oophaga pumilio.

Are these a good starter frog (if one exists?)
What type of enclosure, size etc should I be looking at?
Are they best alone or in groups?

From these questions you can tell im a complete novice, any help is really appreciated.

Thanks

Tom


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

To be honest untill you can master fruit fly culturing I would steer away from darts. Pums require a lot of very small food items but if you can master that then most of them are no harder to keep than other darts.

I would not invest in any vivs until you can culture your own food.

Adam


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Adam,

I will try culturing again, but would like to research other things while doing so.


----------



## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

Where did you go wrong with the culturing?

If you keep on top of starting a new culture once a week they are pretty easy really. It's also worth culturing Springtails and maybe Pea aphids which are a great addition to their diet and fall back if the FFs fail for any reason:2thumb:

Pums are lovely little things. I keep mine in pairs along with their young but only had them 6 months or so. Once they are settled the males are noisy little sods:gasp: but Oh so pretty:blush:

If you really want them then set up a tall viv while you are messing with cultures, gives you something to work towards. If you're anything like me you'll get bored of having FFs all over the place for no reason:whistling2:

I noticed you are from Camarthenshire. Give Richie of Rainforestvivs a shout. He's only in Newport and has set up a lovely little shop. He's a great fella and can sort you with everything you're likely to need. He's mad keen on pums too: victory:


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Thank you, im not sure where I actually went wrong, I ended up getting mild, then they died. 

I lost heart and gave up.


----------



## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

use repashy - easy!


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Repashy eh? The super bug stuff?


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Bud, do yourself a favour, just use Repashy Superfly. You're very unlikely to end up with mould, especially if you put plenty of flies in to start with. You just mix it with boiled water to form a thick paste that doesn't move when you tip the pot. If you are fancying giving pums a go, you need to get the hang of at least culturing drosophila melanogaster, grain weevils and springtails. If you get this down then there are pums that are VERY easy to start out with.

Once you have your culturing down, then good starter pums are either San Cristobal or bribri. Bribri are especially easy as the offspring take melanogaster flies pretty much from the off, and the adults will take mels and hydei no bother.

From there, you'd be looking at a 40x40x60cm custom dart frog viv with decent lighting, plenty of nice bromeliads and maybe some ficus, a decent substrate and a good layer of leaf litter seeded with springtails and dwarf woodlice.

Until you have the culturing down though, there really isn't much point researching frogs. For pums especially been able to culture the flies and springtails is essential. However, I believe in giving people an incentive to stick with it:-

Cristobal froglet










(they were my first pum, and I've never lost a single froglet that I know of.)

Bribri froglet










Again though, I can't stress it enough how important it is to get the culturing down before going near darts, most especially for pums.

Ade


----------



## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Repashy-SuperFly

I have just started culturing ff, this stuff has rave reviews from the states. For a beginner, I can tell you that it is easy to make and the cultures haven't shown any mold. I can't give you any thing more than that yet. 

It does smell a little like bile when you mix with boiling water though, but once it has cooled down it is okay. :lol2:


Question to ade:

Do you make yours with tap water or di/ro water?


----------



## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

It's pretty hard to get their media wrong really. I've used potato flakes with water successfully but now I've upgraded the mix to potato flakes, Readybrek and Orange juice. Put a few inches of dry mix in a pint cup and add enough OJ to make it into a mash potato type consistency: victory:


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Ade, they are stunning frogs.

Last time I attempted (poorly) to culture, it was a very odd mix of ingredients I had to use, potato flakes I think?

Anyway, this superfly stuff seems much easier, I will take a look into it.

Are there any links to any articles on culturing springtails, grain weavils etc?


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I've tried lots of different DIY mixes bud, and I can honestly say they were all garbage. :lol2: Most tended to rot really quickly, turning to sewage in the pot.

As to culturing springs and weevils. For springs have a look at Stu's da dartroom thread. Might take you a while to find but he has a pretty good method on there. Grain weevils, split a culture into 2, putting each half into a lidded pot with a METAL mesh vent, then add pearl barley to each until you have the same quantity in each pot that you started with. Top up regularly when needed to make sure they have barley to eat. That's all there is to it.

Ade


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Ade, I've been reading Stu's thread, its a beast  lots of good info there.

Weevils sound simple enough.

With the repashy, is it just a case of making it adding to pint glass and adding ff's? Sounds so simple. 

Am I an idiot?


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

The Repashy I use a 1/4 cup of media to a 1/3 cup of hot water. Then all I do is put in some wood wool about 50 flies, job done. Grain weevils are easy just some pearl barley to a plastic container then add the weevils. The lid will need a vent made out of wire mesh as they eat through plastic mesh. Springs just use a plastic tub with lump wood charcoal and a couple if cm of water. Add the spring and feed them on yeast fish flake etc. there are loads of different food mixtures people use and you can find them doing a search on here.

Ade you beat me to it!


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

zekee said:


> Thanks Adam,
> 
> I will try culturing again, but would like to research other things while doing so.


Tom,I'm so with Adam here but i'm going to add to your culturing load with springtails and dwarf woodlice.

Beyond that,if you visit an american forum you'll be told keep them in pairs in as big a viv as possible. Here I guess we might be more relaxed about how they are kept,groups might work,I think it is down to the individuals you buy whether this might work. You need to really focus on what morph you like pums are pretty damn variable. Read about pums here, dart den,dendroboard dendrobates org and a zillion other places,the strawberry pionson frog is much studied and much argued about:lol2: Ponder film cans or broms whether to pull at ootw or not, read about MOODS (DB searches will elucidate). For me you need to pick the one you love search the hell out of that and erm culture their food. If we give the debates about separate species a miss for a second,one has tiny escudo to much bigger Costa Rican frogs,I would try to cater for each individually,although maybe ,that isn't necessary,I'd look at at.

But any further details on care are almost superfluous to the needs of culturing,get that down mate,we are harping on about this because we know this to be so important and we know that if one gets that sorted life is just so much easier. If you start with food it is the very cheepest option towards success. 
Simply put if one doesn't have the necessary springtails when the kids come ootw you are screwed anyway and if one can't give the adults,what they need food wise one won't get anywhere.

Over and over and over and over guys that keep dart frogs come back with one simple fact,we are bug keepers that keep frogs,we don't say this because we like the sound of our own voices,we really ARE trying to help


Stu


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Stu, 

I've taken all you guys have said on board, I guess its time to get culturing. Where would one get a starter culture? EBay?


----------



## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

zekee said:


> Thanks Stu,
> 
> I've taken all you guys have said on board, I guess its time to get culturing. Where would one get a starter culture? EBay?


I'd offer you some but am having a bit of a nightmare with my cultures atm. My hydei are ok but the mels suffered through the summer and are plagued with mites  Luckily I've got plenty of other tasty morsels on the go:whistling2:


----------



## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

Forgot to add, get yourself some mite paper to put your cultures on from the start: victory:


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

On the subject of groups.
For just starting out with Pums keep it simple and keep them in pairs.
More than one female will end up in most cases with wrestling matches.
More than one male WILL end up with fights.


Mike


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Bottom of this page for Stu's springs - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/589598-da-dart-room-n-shed-188.html

and then here is our canadian maestro's method, le frogfreak aka Glenn



> I culture them in fruit fly cups with a solid lid. I open it weekly to feed them. They're on large 3/4" coco husk chunks (boiled) I feed them primarily nutritional yeast.


sure he wont mind me sharing that, i may try this method at some point as it obviously works










p.s i honestly dont have loads of stu's dart room thread pages bookmarked


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

zekee said:


> Thanks Stu,
> 
> I've taken all you guys have said on board, I guess its time to get culturing. Where would one get a starter culture? EBay?


You can get a culturing kit from Dartfrog. Also starter cultures of springs and woods. I tend to buy my flies from live foods direct. You could also come along to BAKS as there should be plenty of starter cultures there.

Adam


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Bottom of this page for Stu's springs - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/589598-da-dart-room-n-shed-188.html
> 
> and then here is our canadian maestro's method, le frogfreak aka Glenn
> 
> ...


Yeah you do you go to hell:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Nah thanks mate I couldn't do that,plus Tom do try Glenn's method,see what works for you. that bloody canuck:no1: has to know something or he couldn't keep them tincs doing like he does,I know little but i know that bit. 

I'm also going to tell you to talk to Richie as he is so close to you and he is is very knowledgable about pums, he might have a springtail culture or two,I can vouch for the quality,you can come and see what that little culture i got from him has spawned here if ya like:lol2:.

Then come to BAKS just for the crack and talk to most of us there. I'm slow at typing Tom, I hadn't seen all the other posts apart from Adams' when I started writing:lol2: but food food food. Oh mate repashy.co.uk for da superfly,it does work,mind pricey for hydie and tincs,pums a different story. 

Stu


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> You can get a culturing kit from Dartfrog. Also starter cultures of springs and woods. I tend to buy my flies from live foods direct. You could also come along to BAKS as there should be plenty of starter cultures there.
> 
> Adam


Bugger now you beat me to it:lol2:

Stu


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

I will stick to the repashy, due to my past experience with homemade concoctions! 

Not sure when I will start this, but itsgreat having your input guys.

Its nice to be able to get this info so quick. This is a whole different ball game to feeding turtles 

Culture, culture, culture...


----------



## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

zekee said:


> Culture, culture, culture...


It's the dart keepers mantra.


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

ronnyjodes said:


> It's the dart keepers mantra.


so it'd be fair to say, we're the culture club ?


----------



## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

There we are collecting leaf litter.


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I've found (and yes, this was something I was told to try by Richie B) that pums do very well in female heavy trios, given enough space. Pairs work too though. lol What you don't want is multiple males....

Starting out though, the usual method is to buy the biggest group of froglets that you can afford and grow them on until you can sex them. Froglets cost £50-£60, sexed adults cost £85 and up..... You can then sell on the excess as sexed frogs...

Ade


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Ade,

I'm not even sure if this is the species I want to keep! I've been on dartfrog, having a nosey. There are too many gorgeous frogs. I think im going to stop looking and do the culturing first


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I would bud, as until you know you have that down you'll just end up making yourself sick with wanting them all.

Why do you think so many of us have so many vivs? lol

Ade


----------



## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

I though keeping turtles was addictive! These frogs take up less space and are all gorgeous 

Will keep you guys posted on my culturing attempts. Thanks for everyones help so far, its been great.


----------

