# Warning for Crestie breeders old and new.



## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

I'm guessing this would really apply to anyone breeding any type of gecko and using incubation medium.

On Friday one of my cresties hatched in the middle of the night. When I took him out he appeared to be fine and was already half way through shedding as you can see here.










By the next evening his head had completely changed colour to this. 










A member very kindly pm'd me to say she'd had a similar case which was down to the hatchling ingesting the incubating medium. So I went to check him more closely and noticed that he was less active when being held and not leaping about as is normally the case and his mouth was gaping open every couple of minutes. His stomach also looked much fuller than his clutchmate.

This morning, very sadly the little hatchling passed away. We decided tonight to open the hatchling up just to be sure.

This is what we found *(Graphic pic so please do not click if you don't want to see)*

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5395/crestiepm.jpg

It's quite clear that he has a belly full of vermiculite.

I wanted to post this just so people know what can happen. I know they can hatch at the most unexpected times either when we're asleep or out working for the day. But if you can please get your hatchlings out asap before they can ingest this stuff. Once eaten there is nothing you can do.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

I found one of my geckos, smudge with a mouth full of the stuff when she hatched, she was near enough choking on it. From then on we didnt let the geckos stay in the incubator. She was one of our last eggs to hatch anyway. Scary stuff.

But why the colour change?

R.I.P little one


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## LFG (Apr 2, 2007)

I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.

Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm so so sorry for your loss, that is absolutely tragic 

Well done for investigating further though so that you could warn others.


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

RIP im really sorry for your loss


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> I found one of my geckos, smudge with a mouth full of the stuff when she hatched, she was near enough choking on it. From then on we didnt let the geckos stay in the incubator. She was one of our last eggs to hatch anyway. Scary stuff.
> 
> But why the colour change?
> 
> R.I.P little one


I'm normally very vigilant when eggs are due to hatch and get them out and cleaned off straight away. This one was the middle of the night and a week earlier than expected.

I guess we should always expect the unexpected with these little ones.

I'm not too sure about the colour change. I have spoken to someone who thinks it could be for a couple of reasons. One being toxicity but thought it would have to be in higher quantities for it to manifest like this.



LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


My hubby suggested the same thing. Whether it would work or not I don't know.



ReptileLady said:


> I'm so so sorry for your loss, that is absolutely tragic
> 
> Well done for investigating further though so that you could warn others.


Thank you ReptileLady....it was difficult to do but my need to know was stronger and have to admit it was hubby that opened him for me to take the pics.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Sorry for your loss and thank you for posting this as I would have never in a million years thought about any type of impaction (is that what it will be) in hatchlings.

Does anyone know of other hatchlings this has happened too?? Ive just had a few Corns hatch.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Omerov1986 said:


> RIP im really sorry for your loss


Thank you Omerov.


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## fatbloke (Apr 6, 2008)

dam sorry to here that rip lil dude


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> Sorry for your loss and thank you for posting this as I would have never in a million years thought about any type of impaction (is that what it will be) in hatchlings.
> 
> Does anyone know of other hatchlings this has happened too?? Ive just had a few Corns hatch.


Thanks and you're welcome. I hope no one gets in the same situation but if they do see similar symptoms at least they will know. Or even better avoid it to start with.

I'm not sure about snakes but I'm guessing because cresties shed very quickly after hatching and eat their shed that they are higher risk.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

fatbloke said:


> dam sorry to here that rip lil dude


Thank you....was very sad to see and this is the first hatchling I've lost.


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## suey (Aug 21, 2008)

Oh, i'm so sorry to hear that hun. Thank you for posting about it to make us aware, beautiful little hatchling as well


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Suey.......I know most people are aware but doesn't help to remind. Plus there are lots new to breeding, that might not know of the risks. I'd hate for anyone to lose a hatchling this way


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

Firstly, let me say how sorry I am to hear about your loss; it must be so distressing to lose a littlun in this awful manner. Given how upsetting this must be for you, I can only say thank you so much for sharing your story as a warning to others. 

I don't know if it's of any help, but this article outlines the issue of toxicity and vermiculite. Although it may have been 'classic' impaction, rather than the toxic effects of the vermiculite that, sadly, killed your hatchling, I think that raising awareness of the potential problems with the stuff is best: at least that way people are in a position to make informed decisions / take precautions.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you Olivine. It was just hearbreaking to see this little one deteriorate so quickly and knowing there was nothing I could do to help.

Thanks for that article. Very interesting read.

It's really made me re think what medium I use from now on. Up until now I've had no problem with using vermiculite but will be doing a search for an alternative if there is a safer one.

It was the colouring on the head that really threw me. I'm not too sure if general impaction can cause this to happen or whether it can impede the blood flow in any way so the colouring is lost in the head or whether it was lack of oxygen. Not really biologically minded so just guess work on my part.


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

I am so sorry to read this, what a horrid thing to have happened. I am glad you posted it though, to make people aware.

I thought I might offer an alternative though, I use perlite as an incubation medium, as i found verm to be too wet for gargoyle eggs... Perlite is a bit drier but is also a lot bigger, so would think hatchlings would have a tough time to eat any of it...

Just a thought for you in future


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

or i have found vermiculite in very large pieces, like the size of half a gecko, so they cant eat it.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Anna.....I think I will set up another box and try the perlite for any subsequent eggs. 

This happening to one hatchling is one to many for me and like you say there may be less risk with the perlite being bigger.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> or i have found vermiculite in very large pieces, like the size of half a gecko, so they cant eat it.


I've never seen the larger vermiculite. Have you ever used it?


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## KerryLou (Aug 19, 2009)

Aww Sweetcorn, I am so sorry to hear this. But thank you for posting, as a first time breeder this is something I hadn't even considered. But I will now be watching even closer than I already was (if that is possible). :grouphug:


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2010)

So sorry for your loss  and thank you for sharing and hopefully preventing further deaths from this incubation medium. Something that I might suggest here is the SIM incubator where the eggs are suspended over the incubation media so that they cannot get in contact with it, link  here

Might be worth a look


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

Aw hon I'm so sorry this happened to you, I never thought about this and I think tonight I may be trying something to prevent this...

You did your best hon and thanks for the heads up on this xxx

RIP Little dude that eat anything!



LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


That's a good idea, might be worth trialling this.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

RIP little one...xxxxxx


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss and thankyou for bringing this to our attention, I am shocked at the amount of vermiculite in his little belly. I currently use large vermiculite and recently put an inch layer of perlite on top. I will be checking particle sizes tonight though. RIP little crestie.


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## weegie (Nov 6, 2007)

sorry for your loss:-( we havent had any crestie eggs/hathclings yet but i took there laying tub out for the same reason i noticed a few what looked like vermculate poop's around the adults tank wonder if its just a crestie thing as ive never notcied my gargs eating it?


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## fiesta599 (Jun 11, 2009)

im so sorry for ur loss,i hope your ok.
i cant begin to imagine what ur going through right now so thankyou for sharing this with everyone and making them aware of the risks involved with hatchling cresties.
RIP little oneeace:


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

KerryLou said:


> Aww Sweetcorn, I am so sorry to hear this. But thank you for posting, as a first time breeder this is something I hadn't even considered. But I will now be watching even closer than I already was (if that is possible). :grouphug:


Thanks KerryLou and I'm glad it's brought it to your attention. Best of luck with your breeding.



Crestie Chris said:


> So sorry for your loss  and thank you for sharing and hopefully preventing further deaths from this incubation medium. Something that I might suggest here is the SIM incubator where the eggs are suspended over the incubation media so that they cannot get in contact with it, link  here
> 
> Might be worth a look


Cheers Chris. I did see those a while ago but quite pricey to ship. Any idea if there are any stockist in the UK.



purple-vixen said:


> Aw hon I'm so sorry this happened to you, I never thought about this and I think tonight I may be trying something to prevent this...
> 
> You did your best hon and thanks for the heads up on this xxx
> 
> ...


Thanks hun.....so any results from your experiment last night?



Michelle G said:


> RIP little one...xxxxxx


Thanks Michelle 



RedGex said:


> I am so sorry for your loss and thankyou for bringing this to our attention, I am shocked at the amount of vermiculite in his little belly. I currently use large vermiculite and recently put an inch layer of perlite on top. I will be checking particle sizes tonight though. RIP little crestie.


Thanks RedGex.....I was very shocked too. Initially it looked like a small amount but as we pulled the stomach out it was just packed full.

I've asked hubby to look at work to an alternative to the smaller vermiculite. I've seen someone using Aquatic Pond Soil before. Has anyone else used this as a hatching medium? It looks quite large and also changes colour when wet so easier to judge if it's drying out too much.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

weegie said:


> sorry for your loss:-( we havent had any crestie eggs/hathclings yet but i took there laying tub out for the same reason i noticed a few what looked like vermculate poop's around the adults tank wonder if its just a crestie thing as ive never notcied my gargs eating it?


Thanks Weegie. I've no idea I'm afraid. They obviously have no clue what is safe to eat and what is not. I've only ever used the vermiculite for incubating.



fiesta599 said:


> im so sorry for ur loss,i hope your ok.
> i cant begin to imagine what ur going through right now so thankyou for sharing this with everyone and making them aware of the risks involved with hatchling cresties.
> RIP little oneeace:


Thanks hun.....it was quite a stressful weekend and very upsetting. Was kind of bitter sweet to then have another hatch a few hours after this little one passed away, from an egg I thought was no good.


I'm so glad that people are reading this and taking note. 

Hubby wondered too if the colour change could be like jaundice in humans where the liver isn't functioning.


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm using eco-earth to incubate mine at the moment, I have 3 eggs and all are going strong. I will let everyone know how the hatchlings are, but I had a thought about your little one last night..

Is it not possible that the vermiculite had stuck to him, and when he shed he ate the vermiculite with the skin? I've seen so many pictures of hatchling cresties that still have bits of vermiculite stuck to them so have never used it for this reason..therefore I don't know how long the vermiculite sticks to them for, but is this not a possibility?

I'm hoping that by incubating on soil, IF any was swallowed accidentaly it would be passed easily enough. I also have the egg containers in the room I spend most of my time in so I can see a hatchling as soon as possible.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Sweetcorn said:


> I've never seen the larger vermiculite. Have you ever used it?


didnt get a chance to (stopped breeding) but they hadd it at my local gardening shop


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

ReptileLady said:


> I'm using eco-earth to incubate mine at the moment, I have 3 eggs and all are going strong. I will let everyone know how the hatchlings are, but I had a thought about your little one last night..
> 
> Is it not possible that the vermiculite had stuck to him, and when he shed he ate the vermiculite with the skin? I've seen so many pictures of hatchling cresties that still have bits of vermiculite stuck to them so have never used it for this reason..therefore I don't know how long the vermiculite sticks to them for, but is this not a possibility?
> 
> I'm hoping that by incubating on soil, IF any was swallowed accidentaly it would be passed easily enough. I also have the egg containers in the room I spend most of my time in so I can see a hatchling as soon as possible.


Hi....I'm pretty sure that's what happened as the hatchling was already shedding when I took him out. The stuff just sticks to everything :devil: and I always make sure to clean the hatchlings off before I pop them in their faunariums. 



freekygeeky said:


> didnt get a chance to (stopped breeding) but they hadd it at my local gardening shop


Cheers....hopefully hubby will bring something home later from work. Just keen to get the other eggs of this stuff but have a couple of weeks still before the next eggs are due.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Would this be worth sticking in "Stickies"?


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## Sean A (Aug 23, 2009)

If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

Sean A said:


> If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


If you would have read it properly then you would know she said 'On Friday one of my cresties hatched in the *middle of the night*. When I took him out he appeared to be fine and *was already half way through shedding*'!!!


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

So sorry to hear about this little one Netty, hope all the others are/will be ok.
my OH mentions something about putting the vermiculite in a net bag and laying the eggs on that. I may be trying this as i can only really check them morning and evening.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Sean A said:


> If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


Netty is a very well respected experienced breeder and well thought of by many on here!
Nobody can watch the incubator 24hours a day! Rachel has pointed this out in her comment above, the baby hatched in the middle of the night!


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

I tried filling the bottom of a pair of tights, but at first it was really stiff and un-movable, so I am going to try getting some of the gauze you use for Jam making at the weekend, now my eggs have hatched, the other 3 aren't due for a while, I will make a trial. 

Failing that, I'm temped to move onto eco earth, or even creating a special mesh that suspends over the moist vermiculite and when the hatchling hops out, they only have plain floor with minute holes in... 

Few things I'd like to try anyway.

Again, sorry for your loss hon, and hopefully this is a one in very many times happening, and won't become a regular thing. 

Jac


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

Sean A said:


> If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


That's not a nice assumption to make, but here is not to argue, or point blame but to discuss options of how to avoid this if a hatchling does appear in the time we are not around.

If you read the thread properly, you would know the exact problems. 

Jac


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Sean A said:


> If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


Who the heck do you think you are?? READ THE THE THREAD :censor::censor:


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Sean A said:


> If you found that he had hatched, then why leave the little one on the vermiculite? As soon as I find my hatchling they go in seperate rubs in sterile conditions (kitchen roll) that way they are not ingesting anything and i know who has shed, who has defecated and who is eating the prey. So tbh this is not a warning to breeders just inexperienced breeders. END OF


Well surprise surprise...........so do I. As I said previously this little one hatched in the middle of the night. So I take it you never sleep :whistling2:

Please don't make assumptions about me and how I raise my hatchlings. :devil:


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Rachelsands said:


> So sorry to hear about this little one Netty, hope all the others are/will be ok.
> my OH mentions something about putting the vermiculite in a net bag and laying the eggs on that. I may be trying this as i can only really check them morning and evening.


Thank you Rachel. I had another hatch on Sunday which is absolutely fine. I've been thinking about what kind of gauge/mesh could be used that wouldn't go mouldy over time. Best of luck with yours too :2thumb:



Michelle G said:


> Netty is a very well respected experienced breeder and well thought of by many on here!
> Nobody can watch the incubator 24hours a day! Rachel has pointed this out in her comment above, the baby hatched in the middle of the night!


Thank you so much for your lovely comment Michelle. It's really appreciated :blush:



purple-vixen said:


> I tried filling the bottom of a pair of tights, but at first it was really stiff and un-movable, so I am going to try getting some of the gauze you use for Jam making at the weekend, now my eggs have hatched, the other 3 aren't due for a while, I will make a trial.
> 
> Failing that, I'm temped to move onto eco earth, or even creating a special mesh that suspends over the moist vermiculite and when the hatchling hops out, they only have plain floor with minute holes in...
> 
> ...


Thanks hun. Let me know how you get on with your trials. I'm going to have a hunt around the shops to see if I can find something suitable. Got a couple of weeks too before anymore are due to hatch.

I've also just set up a tub with perlite instead of vermiculite for the time being.


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

Sweetcorn said:


> Well surprise surprise...........so do I. As I said previously this little one hatched in the middle of the night. So I take it you never sleep :whistling2:
> 
> Please don't make assumptions about me and how I raise my hatchlings. :devil:


Well said Netty


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Julie


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

so sorry for your loss.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Suez :smile:


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## chantelle (Apr 8, 2010)

sorry for your loss


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you Chantelle


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## adivallender (Mar 21, 2010)

would tights work???
I use toghts to stop micro crickets escaping


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## Crested Fairy (Nov 16, 2009)

oh nooo so sorry to read this :-(, i was going to suggest tights but then saw jacs put that maybe a big piece of material from the tights loosely over the box with the eggs on top would work? just a thought hope every one works together on this to find something that works that stops this happening again, thanks for posting this sweetcorn and im so sorry for your loss xxx


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## Sean A (Aug 23, 2009)

Sweetcorn said:


> Well surprise surprise...........so do I. As I said previously this little one hatched in the middle of the night. So I take it you never sleep :whistling2:
> 
> Please don't make assumptions about me and how I raise my hatchlings. :devil:


 
So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


Have you never thought to actually make yourself aware of the full details before posting assumptions? 
We chose to publish this incident to make all others aware and if you bothered to read the replies you would have noticed that there are some people who hadn't even considered this could happen. We didn't post it to have some Non Cresty breeder come in and make ill informed assumptions about our Cresty care. 
Perhaps next time you should take the time to find out about peoples experience before putting your mouth (fingers) into gear, because if you had you would have found out how much time and care Sweetcorn puts into all her animals not just Cresties.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


A well-respected breeder has posted this thread in the hope that other members can learn from this incident. However, rather than contributing to the discussion in a constructive way, you appear intent on simply making comments questioning her experience. If you want to participate on the forum, try making a positive input and losing the arrogance and attitude. To be blunt, it doesn't matter how experienced you are, no one will take you seriously if you're downright rude all the time.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?



I don't see how this is constructive, it seems as if you are trying to make her feel bad about herself. I for one am very glad Sweetcorn posted this as it has opened peoples eyes about the risks you take when using this incubation medium. As to your comment about moving the eggs, this may seem like a good idea but also carries its own risks. You may be lucky enough to have the option to leave work every couple of hours, but most don't have this luxury and so can only check on the incubator when they get back or if they stay up all night (out of the question if you have to work the next day). 

I really don't think these sort of replies are necessary as they don't help anyone. In future it may be a good idea to re-read your post to make sure that its relevant and level minded before replying.

----------------------------------

Anyway what about using the netting from those cheap nets you get from the pound shops? So long as its loose enough to make indents you can tie up the bottom with some fishing line : victory:


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


all I can say is that you are lucky that you haven't had a problem with it .... so far ~ and I say so far because accidents/unexpected problems etc do happen *regardless* of how experianced people are or how vigilant ~ heck I'm retired and even I can't watch the eggs 24/7 and, despite the years I've had reps, nor would I be daft enough to say it would never happen to me either as *any* loose incubation/hatching medium can pose a risk.

I'm for one I'm glad that Sweetcorn posted up about this and that it's now a stickied thread ~ I don't and won't use vermiculite for laying or incubation as it can be toxic if ingested but many do but perhaps through Sweetcorns unhappy misfortune others may be spared the same thing happening to their babies.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Firstly, thank you to everyone for your support. It really is hugely appreciated :grouphug:

I did wonder about using tights but not sure how it would stand up to being in a moist environment for such a long time. Would it quickly go mouldy and possibly ruin the eggs?



Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


Well because you're obviously perfect in every way!!!! I doubt very much that you're able to check your eggs every hour 24/7.

If you don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion, then I suggest you leave it, so we can all come up with alternatives to prevent this happening again to me or anyone else.


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## adivallender (Mar 21, 2010)

I don't think tights would go mouldy.

Maybe try it in a tub but with no eggs, if it doesn't go mouldy that's a idea for next year.. 

I've got Leo eggs, I'm using pearlight and vermiculite but even pearlight is huge n would cause impactation.


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## adivallender (Mar 21, 2010)

Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


I'm also bar staff, I get home between 12 and 4am.
Then awake for at least 2 hours but I sleep during the day, but partner checks on the eggs. 
Not everyone has same hours as me or a partner that works from home.

People are busy working, looking after kids n sleeping normal hours. 
I think you need to think before engaging your fingers because you'll end up offending knowledgeable breeders and if you end up posting on the forum for help you'll find people raising their middle finger and no one will help or even buy the animals you have bred!

bad news travels fast and once your known as a idiot no one will want your services or offer you help!


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

I've just bought some perlite but as you said it still could cause a problem. The thing with vermiculite is that it sticks to everything that touches it. So when the crestie hatches and sheds, he eats the shed and anything stuck to it.

Hubby just came up with the idea of using a filter media bag used in fish keeping. It's soft and designed to be in water so should be no risk of going mouldy. 

Going to pick one up today and see how it works.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Perhaps this solution has been suggested already, if so, apologies for the repeat...

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/breeding/352607-suspention-incubation-method.html

Andy


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Andy. Chris suggested one of those and I've emailed someone to see if he's getting anymore in stock. Haven't heard back yet but if he is, I'll definately be trying one.

Have you used these at all?


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## Mysterious_121 (Feb 18, 2010)

Firstly to sweetcorn - im so sorry for your loss that must have been devastating especially with the home done PM. *HUGS* 

Secondly to Sean - I have kept reps for a while now but never bred (mostly due to market floods and also lack of willingness to submit my babies to such a draining ordeal before they are quite chunky and ready) I have however this year decided to give it a go I brought a cresty recently who laid 2 eggs quite randomly after a week in my care and I also have 6 leo eggs in the bator (rest have been disposed of I can keep 6 babies but not 30 or so lol)

In all my research I have never heard of this. I was totally unaware of the risks of using this media and its not widely publicised. I stupidly didn't put the date that these were laid on the tubs so I am unsure of when they will hatch but knowing this I will be uuber aware and also test drive some methods of separating eggs from incubation media. 

I am very thankful to sweetcorn for the information she's provided and I totally sympathise. ive seen a lot of her posts and she's a very caring and good breeder who doesn't deserve to be criticised for informing other people of a problem she's had. Things happen and its in our benefit as a collective group to share these experiences so we can try to negate them in the future. If your just going to try to upset or demoralise someone for the shear fact you've never had such a problem then it undermines the idea of having a forum to share these things on and my suggestion to you is to refrain from posting unless your adding value to the topic. Evidently your not to this topic so stop posting.




Sean A said:


> So why do I not have a problem with it and you do? I wouldnt say never sleep but being a waiter/barman come home at all hours so check the incubator on regular basis. If your so experienced have you thought of moving the eggs near the due date to hatch?


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

adivallender said:


> People are busy working, looking after kids n sleeping normal hours.
> I think you need to think before engaging your fingers because you'll end up offending knowledgeable breeders and if you end up posting on the forum for help you'll find people raising their middle finger and no one will help or even buy the animals you have bred!
> bad news travels fast and once your known as a idiot no one will want your services or offer you help!


 
Well said!!! :no1:


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Mysterious_121 said:


> Firstly to sweetcorn - im so sorry for your loss that must have been devastating especially with the home done PM. *HUGS*
> 
> Secondly to Sean - I have kept reps for a while now but never bred (mostly due to market floods and also lack of willingness to submit my babies to such a draining ordeal before they are quite chunky and ready) I have however this year decided to give it a go I brought a cresty recently who laid 2 eggs quite randomly after a week in my care and I also have 6 leo eggs in the bator (rest have been disposed of I can keep 6 babies but not 30 or so lol)
> 
> ...


Thanks hun and I'm glad this has highlighted the issue for you. This was why I posted and if it helps people to realise the risks then a bashing from one idiot is water off a ducks back 

Good luck with your eggs :2thumb:


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Sweetcorn said:


> Thanks Andy. Chris suggested one of those and I've emailed someone to see if he's getting anymore in stock. Haven't heard back yet but if he is, I'll definately be trying one.
> 
> Have you used these at all?


I have used a home-made version, and the idea works very well. It isn't a particularly new concept, but simply a new manufacture, and from what I have seen, they are good quality.

Worth a try I think.

Andy


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Andy. It does seem like the safest option.

Just thought of these too. I have a large one that I use for washing the net curtains in but they do smaller ones and are very soft. 

3 x Zipped Mesh Washing Bag Laundry 30X40, 40X50, 50X60 on eBay (end time 04-Aug-10 21:53:17 BST)


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## adivallender (Mar 21, 2010)

Sweetcorn said:


> I've just bought some perlite but as you said it still could cause a problem. The thing with vermiculite is that it sticks to everything that touches it. So when the crestie hatches and sheds, he eats the shed and anything stuck to it.
> 
> Hubby just came up with the idea of using a filter media bag used in fish keeping. It's soft and designed to be in water so should be no risk of going mouldy.
> 
> Going to pick one up today and see how it works.


Do you mean something like this:

Algarde Universal Filter Media Bag **pack of 2 bags!** on eBay (end time 02-Aug-10 14:03:35 BST)



Maybe worth a try for £4, yea everytime I use Vermiculite I get it everywhere all over myself, in my eyes and I started using it in a wet box for my leo's but now I think I might remove it.

What about putting the eggs on damp moss like this stuff:

Zoo Med Terrarium Moss Reptile Substrate Bedding Medium on eBay (end time 08-Aug-10 23:49:16 BST)


or repti carpet???

Was thinking about it as I have a tub of moss in with my cresties and they ofen go in it, wondering if it could be a good for incubation..


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## adivallender (Mar 21, 2010)

*a info page on incubation media*

also just found this, Might be a lil bit useful?

Welcome to Repashy Ventures - Reptiles


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## negri21 (Oct 8, 2007)

adivallender said:


> also just found this, Might be a lil bit useful?
> 
> Welcome to Repashy Ventures - Reptiles



i use this stuff and to be honest ive found that it also sticks . not had any losses but it doesnt get rid of the stickyness problem .


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

adivallender said:


> Do you mean something like this:
> 
> Algarde Universal Filter Media Bag **pack of 2 bags!** on eBay (end time 02-Aug-10 14:03:35 BST)
> 
> ...


Yes those are the bags. Hubby has just gone out to see if he can pick a couple up.



adivallender said:


> also just found this, Might be a lil bit useful?
> 
> Welcome to Repashy Ventures - Reptiles


Thanks...I've seen those others on Pangea before. The superhatch looks very much like the aquatic pond soil that I've seen an american breeder use.



negri21 said:


> i use this stuff and to be honest ive found that it also sticks . not had any losses but it doesnt get rid of the stickyness problem .


Is this the SuperHatch that you use Negri?


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## negri21 (Oct 8, 2007)

Sweetcorn said:


> Yes those are the bags. Hubby has just gone out to see if he can pick a couple up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yea i use superhatch . good cause its reusable , but still sticks to the skin after hatching . may not be poisonous if ingested butim guessing as its hard it will be practically undigestable in a crestie that size


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## xvickyx (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh no this is really sad! 

But a good warning


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

negri21 said:


> yea i use superhatch . good cause its reusable , but still sticks to the skin after hatching . may not be poisonous if ingested butim guessing as its hard it will be practically undigestable in a crestie that size


Thanks Negri....they seem like quite big pieces so not something that would pass through. 

I've got the filter bags now so going to see if they work. Will update with pics later once they are set up.



xvickyx said:


> Oh no this is really sad!
> 
> But a good warning


Thank you Vicky.


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## Sean A (Aug 23, 2009)

After reading your first post again, i now realise that i misunderstood what you were saying. When you said it hatched it the middle of the night i assumed that is when you first seen it. At no point did i say that you were an inexperienced breeder only that the warning was to inexperienced breeders (although a reminder to experienced ones alike). So i would like to apoligise to you for any offence caused (which was not intended at any point) and also for hijacking the thread as i see i have made many friends in doing so!


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## lushlily (Jun 27, 2010)

wud it not be possible to buy a few pairs of tights half fill them with this substrate and sqash them down a bit so they cover the bottom and place the eggs on that i hope this helps as that is a sorry sight to see and im sure that wud of bein a lovely lil thing when it got bigger r.i.p lil guy


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

lushlily said:


> wud it not be possible to buy a few pairs of tights half fill them with this substrate and sqash them down a bit so they cover the bottom and place the eggs on that i hope this helps as that is a sorry sight to see and im sure that wud of bein a lovely lil thing when it got bigger r.i.p lil guy


Thanks Lushily. A couple of people have suggested tights and what I've just tried is quite similar.

I've tired using these aquatic filter media bags.

This is what they look like (next to loupe to show size)










This is it filled with vermiculite.











I then tried indenting and popping an egg on but the material is too taut and springs back up leaving the egg to roll.

I then cut a small slit in the bag where I wanted to position the egg. The worry there would be that any hatchlings might get in between the mesh and the vermiculite.

So back to the drawing board for now.


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## negri21 (Oct 8, 2007)

you could always use the substrate less method by using egg crate .

YouTube - Pro Tips #10 - Candling Eggs for Fertility

Opal Diffusers Eggcrate Louvre | Ceilings and Partitions | Ceilings & Partitions | SIG Express

use the substrate as you normally would but put egg crate over the top


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## The Gex Files (May 22, 2008)

So sorry to hear this Netty!
Someone already suggested this, but we will suggest it again 
We are using Repashy Superhatch since it went for sale, and we are very pleased with it.
You can reuse it again, for almost indefinitely, after boiling it's as good as new. 
We never had any gecko swallowing it, and we leave the hatchlings in the incubation-box, after we found them, till they have shed for the first time. Then we remove them and put them in a fauna box. The Superhatch seems to be to heavy or to hard to swallow for them, i think.
It does indeed stick to the skin, but we never had them eating it when removing/eating the shed.


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

Debbie1982 said:


> So sorry to hear this Netty!
> Someone already suggested this, but we will suggest it again
> We are using Repashy Superhatch since it went for sale, and we are very pleased with it.
> You can reuse it again, for almost indefinitely, after boiling it's as good as new.
> ...


Hi Debbie, it was me that told Netty about the pics of the changing skin colour indicating something was wrong.
I lost a hatchling which HAD ingested the superhatch, so it is possible for them to swallow it when shedding. Like Netty mine had hatched overnight, and looked fine when I removed it from the incubator the next day. Its skin then changed colour on the head like Netty's pic, within 24 hours it was dead  Lauren knew there was something wrong when she seen the colour on head, we decided to open the hatchling up, and found its stomach full of superhatch. I always used to leave them in the incubator till they had shed, but now after what happened to me OI always remove them as soon as I see them.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Debbie1982 said:


> So sorry to hear this Netty!
> Someone already suggested this, but we will suggest it again
> We are using Repashy Superhatch since it went for sale, and we are very pleased with it.
> You can reuse it again, for almost indefinitely, after boiling it's as good as new.
> ...


Thanks Debbie 



sarasin said:


> Hi Debbie, it was me that told Netty about the pics of the changing skin colour indicating something was wrong.
> I lost a hatchling which HAD ingested the superhatch, so it is possible for them to swallow it when shedding. Like Netty mine had hatched overnight, and looked fine when I removed it from the incubator the next day. Its skin then changed colour on the head like Netty's pic, within 24 hours it was dead  Lauren knew there was something wrong when she seen the colour on head, we decided to open the hatchling up, and found its stomach full of superhatch. I always used to leave them in the incubator till they had shed, but now after what happened to me OI always remove them as soon as I see them.


Julie....would you still rate the Superhatch over the vermiculite? 

For now I've moved all my eggs onto Perlite as I really don't want to use vermiculite anymore. I just hope the move doesn't interfere with them hatching. 

I do like the idea of the SH as it's so much easier to judge when it's drying out. I'm also going to try to get hold of a SIMS incubator to try when I can unless Andy can put together something similar.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Sweetcorn said:


> I'm also going to try to get hold of a SIMS incubator to try when I can unless Andy can put together something similar.


Oh, is that me:gasp: Better go and check what a SIMS incubator looks like:whistling2:


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## The Gex Files (May 22, 2008)

sarasin said:


> Hi Debbie, it was me that told Netty about the pics of the changing skin colour indicating something was wrong.
> I lost a hatchling which HAD ingested the superhatch, so it is possible for them to swallow it when shedding. Like Netty mine had hatched overnight, and looked fine when I removed it from the incubator the next day. Its skin then changed colour on the head like Netty's pic, within 24 hours it was dead  Lauren knew there was something wrong when she seen the colour on head, we decided to open the hatchling up, and found its stomach full of superhatch. I always used to leave them in the incubator till they had shed, but now after what happened to me OI always remove them as soon as I see them.


Thanks for the warning! We never had any problems with the Superhatch.
We found a new hatchling this morning who hatch last night and removed it immediately. But by the looks of it it had already shed.


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## rhys s (Mar 8, 2010)

i just read through the 9 pages so i dont sound like a idoit now but has anything been suggested and proven worked well yet , and what incubators are you all using as i am not sure if i should make my own or buy one.


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## negri21 (Oct 8, 2007)

rhys s said:


> i just read through the 9 pages so i dont sound like a idoit now but has anything been suggested and proven worked well yet , and what incubators are you all using as i am not sure if i should make my own or buy one.



vermiculite works well , perlite works well , superhatch works well . but with any incubating medium there will be a risk of it sticking to the animal . 

the only way to avoid it is with the substrate less/egg crate/SIM system


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## rhys s (Mar 8, 2010)

ok thanks , what incubator do you use , as i am un sure what is best for its price and does a good job


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## negri21 (Oct 8, 2007)

rhys s said:


> ok thanks , what incubator do you use , as i am un sure what is best for its price and does a good job


i dont use an incubator for cresty eggs . they get put in a sandwich tub and left in a cupboard .


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## Sean A (Aug 23, 2009)

Ok so this is a seriously random idea of the top of my head. I dont know what you guys will think, but as everything suggested seems to have something wrong here goes. How about using something along the lines of tracing paper? Its thin and should let humidity through. Also small holes could be cut out and the eggs placed directly onto vermiculite but when they hatch they should roam around on top. You could make it tight enough for them not to get underneath and feast on the vermiculite. The egg wont roll off, just the same as using vermiculite with a thin permeable layer on top? Probably a no go idea but i think it could possibly work. Also there could be something along the lines of tracing paper that may work better. Hope this helps in some way


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

Sweetcorn said:


> Thanks hun. Let me know how you get on with your trials. I'm going to have a hunt around the shops to see if I can find something suitable. Got a couple of weeks too before anymore are due to hatch.
> 
> I've also just set up a tub with perlite instead of vermiculite for the time being.


Hey,

I did check a pair of tights, but like the bag you have, it was too stretchy and taught and therefore a risk to eggs rolling, I also tried perlite before, and I got it too wet, so might try that again.

What I am wondering is that I use vermiculite, and one of my babies have ended up eating a little with the shed, then "pooing" it out fine... Was your vermiculite too large to pass?

Anyway I want to prevent this now as it can't be good for them to eat it even if it does pass, so I am keeping an eye on this baby.

Will be setting up a suspension method I think, keep the ideas coming though guys! Interesting (sad) thread,

Jac x


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## rhys s (Mar 8, 2010)

negri21 said:


> i dont use an incubator for cresty eggs . they get put in a sandwich tub and left in a cupboard .


 
is this at room temperature or do you have a " reptile room " you keep them in which is warmer


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

rhys s said:


> ok thanks , what incubator do you use , as i am un sure what is best for its price and does a good job


Ours are in a home made incubator, using the sealed sandwich box method. We've never had a problem before this, as we have always removed the cresty shortly after hatching. It was just this one that popped out after we went to bed. Although we have had many hatchlings without any issues, one incident like this is enough to make us consider the alternatives.

We are still waiting to hear back about the availability of a SIM's incubator in the UK. In the meantime we will keep trying new ideas.


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

Sweetcorn said:


> Thanks Debbie
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Netty, I have used vermiculite, superhatch, perlite and a mixture of vermic and perlite. I still have one box in the bator with vermic/perlite and another box with the superhatch. They can all be ingested so are all a potential threat to hatchlings. The superhatch I do like because as Debbie said you can see if its too dry. I did loose a lot of my stroph hatchlings last year and they were in Superhatch, but whether it was because it was their first breeding season or the incubation medium I just dont know. This year the stroph eggs are in vemiculite and I have had 100% hatch rate.
The SIMS does sound like a good idea, but I would like to know more about it before I went ahead and bought one (if available)


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## Sean A (Aug 23, 2009)

Ok so this is a seriously random idea of the top of my head. I dont know what you guys will think, but as everything suggested seems to have something wrong here goes. How about using something along the lines of tracing paper? Its thin and should let humidity through. Also small holes could be cut out and the eggs placed directly onto vermiculite but when they hatch they should roam around on top. You could make it tight enough for them not to get underneath and feast on the vermiculite. The egg wont roll off, just the same as using vermiculite with a thin permeable layer on top? Probably a no go idea but i think it could possibly work. Also there could be something along the lines of tracing paper that may work better. Hope this helps in some way.


----------



## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

purple-vixen said:


> Hey,
> 
> I did check a pair of tights, but like the bag you have, it was too stretchy and taught and therefore a risk to eggs rolling, I also tried perlite before, and I got it too wet, so might try that again.
> 
> ...


The vermiculite I've been using is the really fine stuff. Up until now I've been really happy with it and last season had 100% hatch rate. I think the only safe way is some kind of suspension method like you said. 

Negri pointed out the plastic egg crating which might work as long as the eggs don't fall through or roll.



sarasin said:


> Netty, I have used vermiculite, superhatch, perlite and a mixture of vermic and perlite. I still have one box in the bator with vermic/perlite and another box with the superhatch. They can all be ingested so are all a potential threat to hatchlings. The superhatch I do like because as Debbie said you can see if its too dry. I did loose a lot of my stroph hatchlings last year and they were in Superhatch, but whether it was because it was their first breeding season or the incubation medium I just dont know. This year the stroph eggs are in vemiculite and I have had 100% hatch rate.
> The SIMS does sound like a good idea, but I would like to know more about it before I went ahead and bought one (if available)


So really there's is a risk with all three. Having had a good hatch rate on the vermiculite I'm wary about using a medium I've haven't used before, but I think I need to try them all and in the meantime try to come up with something that will keep the hatchlings off it, in the event they hatch when I'm not around.

I think one of the issues I've seen with the SIMS was the grid bars and still allowing room for the egg to plump up. I'm not sure how big each increment is with these for making the spaces bigger or smaller.


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## Mirf (May 22, 2008)

Very sorry for the loss of the little one. The picture was very distressing to see.

Why not try the fabric that is used to make fly screens? It's extremely fine mesh, is plastic so won't rot and has virtually no 'give' in it, so it won't compact the substrate.

You can make whatever sized bag you need so can custom fit it for whatever container you need. Might be worth a try?

This is the stuff I'm referring to
PATIO DOOR NETTING INSECT FLY SCREEN WASP CURTAIN NET on eBay (end time 10-Aug-10 11:44:02 BST)


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## tinyfish (Nov 11, 2008)

*moss?*

Has anyone tried using damp Sphagnum moss? Maybe not for the entire incubation period, but perhaps to place the eggs on/in close to hatching time? If washed and squeezed (gently) I find there are relatively few small bits, what there is is soft, and it's not very sticky. I use it to cover my snake eggs and it holds moisture well and does not mould.


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## ianwaters (Feb 8, 2007)

Hi Sweetcorn,

Very sad and not seen this happen before luckily. LFG im liking the idea of a mesh bag to hold the vermiculite. Would have to be a very fine weave other wise they would get tangled up in it.


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

im gonna send the starter of this thread a pm


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

ok my pm reads:

-----------------------------------

ok so the wee crested gecko hatched on vermiculite as it was just born it was hungry so took enough vermiculite to fill his/her hunger then vermiculite being vermiculite soaks up all his/her fluids and expands putting pressure no his lungs (gaping mouth) and the color disfiguration on it head was due to the lack of oxygen.......

-----------------------------------

just what i think....


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

connor 1213 said:


> ok my pm reads:
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> ...


It wasn't hunger, it was shedding its skin and ingested the vermiculite whilst eating the skin


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Correct Sarasin, but thanks for your thoughts Connor: victory:

We tried using an aquarium filter bag. They are very fine and flexible, but there was still too much spring in them. The eggs are so light they won't keep the netting down.

Still waiting to hear back about the availability of the SIM's incubator.


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## TerryStph (Aug 1, 2010)

LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


 i like the mesh idea :2thumb: what about putting it in a pillow case ? bit like a bean bag ?


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

TerryStph said:


> i like the mesh idea :2thumb: what about putting it in a pillow case ? bit like a bean bag ?


The problem we have found is that the eggs are very very light and won't be able to stay upright in the same position.


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## TerryStph (Aug 1, 2010)

if u had a cotton pillow case ( very thin) you could push a finger indent in the case and position them.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

TerryStph said:


> if u had a cotton pillow case ( very thin) you could push a finger indent in the case and position them.


Tried it with a very fine and thin aquarium filter bag, and nope Plus it has to be able to deal with moisture.


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## TerryStph (Aug 1, 2010)

well im stummped :lol2:
just a guess what about that non tare kitchen roll layed over the vermiculite.? it must strech to some degree that you could push a dent in it ?


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## ingwe97 (Mar 10, 2010)

You could try the vermiculite inside an old nylon tight. I have used this in aquarium filters (not vermiculite). hope this helps.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

ingwe97 said:


> You could try the vermiculite inside an old nylon tight. I have used this in aquarium filters (not vermiculite). hope this helps.


This has been tried already and I'm afraid it didn't work out, as the eggs are too light to hold the tights down.

We've also tried the aquarium fillter media bags and again had the same problem.


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## ingwe97 (Mar 10, 2010)

If you put the vermiculite into the tights, but dont fill it, so that they are slack, you should be able to shape hollows in them for the eggs. I think about half full should allow this.


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## tom12349333 (Sep 30, 2009)

pooor little thing! i feel so sorry for you guys and the little gecko
im really looking into getting a crested gecko and they seem like amazing little things but im so sad for this little one 

RIP <3


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you Tom. They really are amazing and thankfully all the others are doing just fine


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## simooshy (Mar 12, 2010)

ingwe97 said:


> You could try the vermiculite inside an old nylon tight. I have used this in aquarium filters (not vermiculite). hope this helps.


What about this or the pillowcase idea, with stitches sewn in to hold the bag down in places, giving dents?


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## puddin (Sep 27, 2009)

OMG sweetcorn I can't believe it, really up set me that I tell you.
I am so sorry, must have been heart breaking esp as there is very you can do. 
So sad.

Maybe placing a thin piece of mesh over the top?
I am living in fear now!


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Puddin. Definately not a nice experience but thankfully all subseqent hatchlings have been fine.

My worry with just laying mesh over the top is that the little hatchling could get underneath or get tangled. I'm currently waiting for a SIMS incubator which I'll be using for next season.


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## MrLizardBoi97 (Aug 29, 2010)

Cheers mate I'm thinking of getting two cresties


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## lovespids (May 10, 2010)

RIP little crestie  x


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks guys


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## necrosamus (Aug 23, 2010)

LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


has anyone tried opaques? You could wrap it all up in some of your/mums/Wife/GF/whoevers old stocking type opaques if you realy pack the stuff in you could get some decent sausage like packs.
XD just an idea


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## Higgt4 (Apr 25, 2009)

I realise this thread has been around for a while, but SIM incubators are now available in the UK here -

S.I.M. Container - Lizard Planet

I will be getting one before I breed my cresties after reading this thread.

Thanks for the heads up and sorry to hear about your little hatchling not making it.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks Higgt4. I just received my SIMS incubator today from Lizard Planet and it looks great. I can't wait to try it out and hopefully now no more risk of ingesting substrate.


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## Samanthaa (Sep 21, 2009)

Higgt4 said:


> I realise this thread has been around for a while, but SIM incubators are now available in the UK here -
> 
> S.I.M. Container - Lizard Planet
> 
> ...


 
I just was poping across to hear to post a link to the SIM container. Beaten me to it.

RIP to the little hatchling but thanks for the warning of a possible risk.


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## Mia (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for posting, sure it will help many people. Sorry for your loss, i love my little crestie and would be heart broken if anything happened to him.


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## mattandme2 (Sep 23, 2010)

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
aewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Samanthaa said:


> I just was poping across to hear to post a link to the SIM container. Beaten me to it.
> 
> RIP to the little hatchling but thanks for the warning of a possible risk.


Thanks Samanthaa. Will be very interesting to see how the SIMS works next season.



Mia said:


> Thanks for posting, sure it will help many people. Sorry for your loss, i love my little crestie and would be heart broken if anything happened to him.


Thanks Mia. I hope it does help people and hopefully prevent this happening to others.


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## carisma02uk (Sep 14, 2006)

Just a though, but have you looked into substrate-less incubation? Looks like a winner for all those who can't afford new incubators!


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## exoinverts123 (Oct 25, 2010)

freekygeeky said:


> I found one of my geckos, smudge with a mouth full of the stuff when she hatched, she was near enough choking on it. From then on we didnt let the geckos stay in the incubator. She was one of our last eggs to hatch anyway. Scary stuff.
> 
> But why the colour change?
> 
> R.I.P little one



It could be chemicals in the medium, don't forget vermiculite and perlite are supposed to be used with plants. It's a massive shame though :'(

Aran x


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## exoinverts123 (Oct 25, 2010)

Sweetcorn said:


> I'm guessing this would really apply to anyone breeding any type of gecko and using incubation medium.
> 
> On Friday one of my cresties hatched in the middle of the night. When I took him out he appeared to be fine and was already half way through shedding as you can see here.
> 
> ...


It's really sad this happened :'( I would say use a piece of plastic mesh to separate the eggs and the babies from the media and also get the humidity they need.


Aran x


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

exoinverts123 said:


> It's really sad this happened :'( I would say use a piece of plastic mesh to separate the eggs and the babies from the media and also get the humidity they need.
> Aran x


All been discussed and tried.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

I was sent this link when I lost this hatchling which I think people might find interesting and may explain the change of colour. I'm not at all scientifically minded but I'm guessing that maybe poisoning or the organs failing may be what caused this sudden colour change.

http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/19/4/284.pdf


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

REally sorry about the hatchling and I know you already have a solution but I have had an idea that might work.

Basically you want a nice deep layer of verm then one/two of those cones they sell to feed bloodworms to fish. Bury the cone pointed end down into the verm and place the egg in (with maybe some moulded putty at the bottom of the cone and make a egg shaped dent). Then cover the top (open side) with some mesh. This would prevent the hatchling coming into contact with the verm completly while still having the benefit as the cone has lots of little holes in it.

What you think?


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## Liam17 (Jul 20, 2008)

Expanding on the "mesh" idea. I haven't tried this, it really is just an idea but what about packing the vermiculite into women's tights. Then placing it back in the tub. You would then be able to push thumb dents into the vermiculite allow dips to place the eggs into.

The tights should be elastic enough to allow the dents to hold, and the eggs laid in them. However, I am unsure if Nylon tights would mold at all with such high levels of humidity :/

Im really sorry for your loss aswell :-|


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2010)

Liam17 said:


> Expanding on the "mesh" idea. I haven't tried this, it really is just an idea but what about packing the vermiculite into women's tights. Then placing it back in the tub. You would then be able to push thumb dents into the vermiculite allow dips to place the eggs into.
> 
> The tights should be elastic enough to allow the dents to hold, and the eggs laid in them. However, I am unsure if Nylon tights would mold at all with such high levels of humidity :/
> 
> Im really sorry for your loss aswell :-|


Tried and failed


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## LIZARD (Oct 31, 2007)

RIP lill crestie dude
i have tried coco humus/ eco earth and this has worked fine for cresties and leos


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## Linkj93 (Jan 10, 2011)

Awww poor little guy, 
That must of been painful.

RIP little dude


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you


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## secuner (Feb 2, 2008)

so sad!
thanks for the warning.


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## Jas (Mar 9, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your loss, but there may have been other issue's that caused it's death. Normally when they hatch they dont start feeding until about 2 days after being born. I havent read all of the post's as there are alot but was he taken out the same day he hatched?
Good luck with your other's.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

secuner said:


> so sad!
> thanks for the warning.


You're welcome.



Jas said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss, but there may have been other issue's that caused it's death. Normally when they hatch they dont start feeding until about 2 days after being born. I havent read all of the post's as there are alot but was he taken out the same day he hatched?
> Good luck with your other's.


As said the hatchling hatched during the night and was removed in the morning as soon as I was up and checked the box. By that time he had nearly finished shedding and ingested the vermiculite whilst eating his shed.


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## reptolad (Feb 18, 2011)

That's sad news, sorry to hear about your gecko. 

Maybe you could tried keeping some dry crickets in the incubator and buy a motion sensor with an alarm so you know when they're hatching.


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## Superarty (Feb 5, 2011)

Possible solution to this: my leo used to do this with the vermiculite in her moist hide, never quite that much but I'd find bits of vermiculite in her faeces quite regularly, so to stop her I put a layer of kitchen towel over the vermiculite. I don't know if this would be practical if you need to control the humidity very carefully, but it worked for me.


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

Sorry for your loss, he was adorable  It's brilliant that you've posted this on here, especially with the picture .. though graphic it shows everyone exactly the damage vermiculite can cause! 

Rip little gecko!


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## debsandpets (May 26, 2012)

LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


Maybe inside the leg or foot of some tights would do the job ..............


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## gothicdee (Aug 16, 2013)

*thank you*

Poor little thing  well done you on having the strength to investigate further. I wanted to thank you for posting this, I'm thinking of breeding my crestie and this post has given me prior warning of this nasty problem many thanks.


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## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

LFG said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to create a mesh bag full of vermiculite which could then sit inside the tub with the eggs positioned on top and nested into the mesh-covered vermiculite, so lying on top of and in contact with the vermiculite but without the possibility of hatchlings ingesting it.
> 
> Just a mesh layer on top might be enough.


its is how i done my eggs when i seen what can happen and all was fine :2thumb:


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