# shedding and white mouth



## alexia1975 (Sep 14, 2010)

hey people
im new to this and need some advice pls :blush:
both my terrapins are shedding skin - firstly ive read this is normal and that it is NOT, can someone confirm?
also, my male has white stuff on his mouth and head - is this bad? he doesnt seem ill, still swimmimng about and feeding? 
im havin problems wih my tank too - i have changed the water twice yesterday cse it keeps going cloudy - we bought a new tank 2 month ago and new pump ect - normally the water is clear but it keeps clouding up - im going to put my old pump back in - or is it somthing wrong with the terrapins??????????????????????????? 
PLEASE HELP!:2wallbang::2wallbang:


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

Shedding is pefectly normal, mine do it every few months, are they sliders? ie red ear, yellow belly, cooters? If they are you need to make sure they have a large basking area above water so they can completely dry off In order to shed properly.
The white stuff could just be shed skin, mine get a white crusty patch on their head when shedding. It could also be something more sinister like an RI or fungal infection. Clear pics would help us tell you whats going on.
Have you got them both in the same tank? It is a bad idea to keep males and females together as the male will constantly harass the female for sex, and if she hasnt got anywhere to lay her eggs she will become egg bound and die.
As for the water, turtles poo A LOT!! And you need atleat a 600L filter, preferably an external one.
You will also need to get you hands on some nitrite/nitrate remover from you local aquatic's shop. It is a bacterial culture that removes harmful amonia and other chemicals in the water.

I hope your turts are ok, you will have a lot of fun owning them, they are great pets, and a lot of fun to watch, although they are hard work, and you need to do a lot of cleaning out.


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## alexia1975 (Sep 14, 2010)

thankyouuuuuu so much for your reply, im going to take some pictures and post them on tomorrow a.m so please look out for them, ive noticed LOADS of white residue on the females shell tonight, i'll post pics of that too. I think im going to be critisied over where i keep them, i love them to bits and want them to be happy but i think the set up is wrong, ive treid changing it but the tank is too deep and my son (without me) went and bought a new tank cse it looked nice - not cse it worked well for them! anyway, enough going on, i will post pics in the a.m! thankyou again : victory:


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

No probs.
You wont get criticized. If the set up is wrong then we will tell you how to make it right.
If you touch the white stuff is it sticky or does it seem to be part of the shell?
Turtles also shed their shell, and it comes off in thin sections like if you peel the top layer off you finger nail. If you pick at it with your nail you should be able to peel bits off and expose the new shell underneath.

I am now thinking that they are just shedding, but pics will still help, especially of the white stuff around the mouth. Bear in mind that the photos need to be as clear as possibe, so turn your camera to macro, and try your best to get a good one.

I'm not sure if you know how to post pics yet, but this should help if you dont http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...4976-how-post-pictures-using-photobucket.html


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## alexia1975 (Sep 14, 2010)

*My pics!*

Hi again, here are the pics for you to look at, im going to take some more later, they were being shy and wouldnt get on the basking float :blush: they seem loads better today and i carnt see any shedding  its just the white stuff on her shell now. Ive taken some of the tank, as you can see its deep, i have tried them with less water so i could make a mound of pebbles for her to lay eggs but they hated it! Our 2 are used to deep water and dont even really like it outside on the grass either - they LOVE water  here goes with the pics, thankyou in advance for your help! :notworthy:

















































hope its worked  let me know what you think, the white stuff you can see on the 2 last pics of Debo :notworthy:


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

Yep they are shedding their shells, it will happen every few months, and is perfectly normal.
Your set up is a bit off, but will be ok for a short time until you can get it sorted out.
1st of all they need more space, you need at least a 4'x1' tank for two small adults, my male is in a 4x1 and my female who is 10" is in a 4x2, they like a lot of open space to swim in, and deep water to dive. 
The most important thing you need to add is a basking spot underneath at least a 60w bulb, the temps in the basking area need to reach about 31c, so best to remove the plastic cover on the tank. You can buy a metal arm for the bulb that you can attach to the wall like they have in the dentists. 
You will also need a new filter preferably an external one like this Aquarium fish tank external filter 1000L/H + Media NEW on eBay (end time 13-Oct-10 18:15:30 BST)
If you look around you could find one for about £30.
That should sort out the water.
You also need to get rid of the gravel, they have a tendancy to eat it, and it can cause impaction.
One last thing is about the food. Turtle food is great to fill the gaps, but they really need fresh veg, and fish, you can get frozen bait fish from an aquatics shop for next to nothing, they are very nutritious and are great for a treat every few weeks.
They will eat any type of veg, but they really like dark greens and anything red.
The also like the occasional cricket, locust, mealworm, roach, etc.
Remember they can eat anythig you can eat except dairy products, so feel free to experiment. If you decide to feed the occasional bit of raw mince meat or cat food its best to do so outside the tank to avoid poluting the water.

Please dont think Im having a go at you, Im just giving some friendly advice. Everyone was new at everything once, and we all needed to be told how to do it right :2thumb:


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## alexia1975 (Sep 14, 2010)

:notworthy: wow thankyou!!! that is some good advice : victory:
few questions if you don't mind???? here goes lol
1) if i am removing the gravel what should i have instead?
2) do i NEED the filter asap or am i OK using the one we have for the time being - of course changing and cleaning it every other day?
3) I will remove the plastic - will that be OK for them until i get a new tank (gonna look for a bigger one toinght!)
4) i have experimented with their food - thort that was making them poorly but obviously not lol i feed them any cooked meat (ham, chicken, cornbeef) - they love it! Tuna and makeral out of a tin and they love that too!  
and finaly you said NOT to keep them together cause of mating...is that for defo cause they have been together since birth and i feel awful taking them apart!! how could i make a laying spot for her...would that be gravel?

thats it, thankyou so much for your help :notworthy: i love them, their my babies and id be gutted if anything happened to them, your right too, they are great pets and SO much fun to watch, i loose hours watching them lol
thankyou x


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

alexia1975 said:


> :notworthy: wow thankyou!!! that is some good advice : victory:
> few questions if you don't mind???? here goes lol
> 1) if i am removing the gravel what should i have instead?
> 2) do i NEED the filter asap or am i OK using the one we have for the time being - of course changing and cleaning it every other day?
> ...


You're welcome, I am glad to help.
Its good to know you want to look after them properly, a lot of people would just stick them in a tank, and not bother to learn anything about them.
Here we go then.
1) you dont need any substrate in the tank, it just creates places for food and faeces to get stuck leaving you with a harder job cleaning them out.
2) A good filter is a necessity, but with good husbandary you will be able to put off getting one for a while. When you have got the filter you will only have to do a 10% water change every week, and a 100% one every month.
3) Yes that will be fine, its best not to have anything covering the tank, because excess humidity can cause respiritory infections.
You will be able to go without a heat lamp for a LITTLE while, if you keep the water temps at about 28c, but you do need to get one ASAP.
4) They will eat cooked meat and fish all day long, but raw is much more nutritious, and less messy, try to avoid white meat like chicken and pork, because of the salmoela issue, it wont harm you're turts, but they could pass it on to you.
The most important food item is fruit and veg, this should make up 70-80% of their diet. Too much meat causes aggression in most omnivourous animals.
And finally, the turtles will do fine together all through infancy and up until the male matures, which will be before the female, when he does mature he will start humping everything even slightly turtle shaped in sight, and this will do nothing but stress the female out. You can keep females together no problem, and if the girls have somewhere to lay you can keep several females and a male together, but males are best kept on their own, if you dont intend to breed. Males kept with other males become sexually frustrated, and have a tendency to bite eachothers penis' and tails off.
So in all they are best kept individually or in a colony.

When I first got mine it was better than TV, they have such great characters compared to most other reptiles, always following you when you walk past, and begging for food. I have had them for 4 years now, and they still fascinate me.

Keep looking through the shelled section if you're interested in them, and you will learn something new every day :2thumb:


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> The most important food item is fruit and veg


Not fruit, turts can have problems digesting fructose, it's not something they've evolved to eat and wouldn't normally form part of their diet in the wild.

Avoid processed meats too, like ham which has high levels of salt, also best to avoid sea fish because some contain high levels of thiaminase which is not good for them. If you want to feed them fish then raw freshwater fish is best, such as trout.

This caresheet will tell you basics of keeping Sliders Terrapin-Info.co.uk, in the meantime before you go buying any new equipment it would be wise to run it past some of the more experienced keepers in the Shelled section, it's very easy to get misled by shops and you could end up with some very expensive, but useless equipment.


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## spicewwfc (Aug 26, 2009)

Graham said:


> Not fruit, turts can have problems digesting fructose, it's not something they've evolved to eat and wouldn't normally form part of their diet in the wild.
> 
> Avoid processed meats too, like ham which has high levels of salt, also best to avoid sea fish because some contain high levels of thiaminase which is not good for them. If you want to feed them fish then raw freshwater fish is best, such as trout.
> 
> This caresheet will tell you basics of keeping Sliders Terrapin-Info.co.uk, in the meantime before you go buying any new equipment it would be wise to run it past some of the more experienced keepers in the Shelled section, it's very easy to get misled by shops and you could end up with some very expensive, but useless equipment.


Well mine love squash, marrow, corgette, mellon, aubergine, avocardo, etc.
From what I have read and been told you only need to avoid more acidic fruits like oranges, apples, strawberry's, tomato's, etc. If a berry or something simmilar fell into a pond with turts in it in the wild, I can guarantee they would eat it in a shot.
Also isnt thiaminase found in fresh water fish too? Especially algae eaters?
Why waste money on an expensive trout, when you can get a bag of frozen minows for less?
And lastly, heat lamps, and external filters are not useless equipment, they are a necesity, an internal filter would not be able to cope with the ammount of waste that two adult turtles would make.
And just to clarify I am not a shop, nor am I trying to sell her anything.


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## alexia1975 (Sep 14, 2010)

*.*

Hi all, dont want to cause an argument guys :notworthy: im just SO grateful for the help and advice!!! 
I will look into all the stuff you have said and see what works best.
I am going on one tonight changing it all round so will post pics tomoz so you can see if its better  i saw a external filtre for 25 on ebay and a bigger tank for 45 so may get them. also is there any way of making a laying area for her in the tank we have now??? and can i feed them mackeral-i got them it as a treat yestday b4 i saw all the stuff about fish ect!  :notworthy:


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

With all due respect, regarding the equipment required. What Graham, who is an extremely knowledgeable turtle keeper, would have meant was to make sure you buy suitable items, and not what a pet shop tells you to buy. Examples of this would be a new tank with a lid/hood - turtles should have an open tank; a purpose made turtle dock - these are not ideal for large turtles as the turtles can be too heavy, therefore a piece of corkbark wedged across the tank works well. There is no way, he was saying that an external filter was not necessary!

We recommend Eheims - you can buy them at a reasonable price from Zoo Plus and use Alfagrog as the media inside, which can be bought at koi fish shops - World of Water is a good one.

UV light is essential and you can buy a setup which provides heat and light, or alternatively provide a basking light, which can be a desk lamp with a spotlight bulb.

As to diet, we only ever feed ours Reptomin, wheatgerm pellets, romaine lettuce, duckweed, dandelion leaves with the occasional treat of trout, snails, certainly not fruit or vegetables. Avocados are certainly poisonous to parrots, dogs, rabbits etc, and possibly turtles?

Let us know if you need any more help/advice.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> heat lamps, and external filters are not useless equipment, they are a necesity, an internal filter would not be able to cope with the ammount of waste that two adult turtles would make.


And where did I say these items were useless equipment? Where did I even mention getting an internal filter? I spend most of my time on here advising people to buy these very things for their setups!

The problem with many, if not most, petshops is that they will sell you stuff that's not really suitable, such as inadequate filters, lights that don't provide the right levels of UVB etc..., tanks that the turts will outgrow in a matter of months, it's better to come on here and get advice on these things before buying to avoid wasting a load of money.



> mine love squash, marrow, corgette, mellon, aubergine, avocardo,


Well most of those are not really fruits are they? Melon may be, and technically avocado is too, but courgettes and aubergines? You didn't actually specify which fruits in your first post, and most people would probably be thinking of things like apples, bananas, oranges etc..., which are not suitable foods foir most turts.



> Why waste money on an expensive trout


Trout is not expensive, you can buy several fillets in Tesco for a couple of quid, it's one of the best freshwater fish you can feed them and therefore not a waste of money. 

Yes Thiaminase is found in some freshwater fish, most noteably members of the Carp family, but not Trout which is why I mentioned it, apart from it being cheap.



> And just to clarify I am not a shop, nor am I trying to sell her anything


I never suggested you were did I?


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