# breeding mice how do i kill the babies



## gotta love em (May 10, 2007)

hi i have a pregnant female what is is the best and most effective wya of killing the off spring with putting the babies through to pain or stress?


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

as soon as they are born.. pick them up and flick them on the head.,.. they skulls are still soft so they will just die 

peace

James


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## greenlikegecko (May 18, 2007)

if they get a bit bigger you can suffocate them or CO2 them to death... or if you can snap there necks.... google it you will get lots of useful pics : victory:


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## baby_jabba (Jun 28, 2007)

yer just flick them on there head or nose, they might still move when you do this but it will be there nerves, or you can just put them in freezer and they will die very quick cos they are cold

hope that help Dale : victory:


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

look

reptilianforums.co.uk :: breeding your own mice

there 

peace

James


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

can you freeze them?


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

as pinks yes.. ebcause they are cold anyway.. and need to be neer mummy 

so freezing them kills them in a minute or so 
peace

James


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## punky_jen (Feb 22, 2007)

freezing live i think is very cruel, it causes all thecells to burst and they will be in a lot of pain. so iv read and been told.

Its easier on the mouse if you hit the head, 1 blow usually does it, and its quick.


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## Ste (Apr 16, 2007)

Gassing them is one of the best options, its pretty humane, they just fall asleep and dont wake up.


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

can u gas em using c02? coz the gas will be init when u feed it 2 ur reptile wont it?


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## Hardwicki (Jun 18, 2007)

Ive often thought about breedin for food. sounds awful but it makes sense in my mind. Surely because you have gased them with CO2 which is Carbon Dioxide it will have no adverse effect on the reptile fed to because the mouse will only be holdin a tiny amount in its tiny lungs and it is a natural gas anyway. This is how i see it, please correct me if i'm wrong i dont want to misinform or put any animal in danger.

cheers : victory:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I thought that gassing pinkies isnt a good way to do it?


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

well i work 4 rentokil and we use mouse traps that use co2. and the only problem is that its like posioning the mouse coz weve had people say that they cat as died coz it ate a ead mouse that had been gassed. but im not sure as these mice were fully grown. but i must agree that gas is the most humane way ofkilling them. dunno weather ur local pet shop wud no from there suppliers


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## Hardwicki (Jun 18, 2007)

I see. i stand corrected. thing is. i have 3 snakes which eat full grown mice...does anyone know the best way to kill the big ones?? if it involves breakin bones or whackin them i'd rather buy, i used to keep them as pets as a kid so i cant do it...poor little buggers i'm just soft.

cheers : victory:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

From what i've heard the CO2 method seems to be the best method for humanely killing an animal of any age. Look at it as if it was done on you. Would you rather be left to freeze to death, banged on the head, have your back broken or be gassed to death. Whatever one you would prefer, do to the animal.


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## Hardwicki (Jun 18, 2007)

I totally agree. the more humane the better...but look at it this way, if you were killing your own mice for example, and there was the tiniest threat of harming your snake would you risk it?? This is what bothers me, if something as big as a cat can die from co2 poisoning from a dead gassed mouse, then can a snake die from it??

it just worries me : victory:


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## pokerplayer (Jul 22, 2007)

not that im an expert by any means, and dont even keep snakes, but surely putting them in the freezer alive will be painful and cruel, even if it is only for a few minuets.
its like a human being put in a freezer, you will go really really cold and die slowy.
and flicking thre heads, thats all it takes, but im thinking the hit will hurt them? sounds silly, but it could be true.
maybe the best way is to hold down their heads and bodies, and pull their necks. so head pulls one way, the body another. breaks the neck, and detatches the spine.
maybe im talking about a subject i dont understand, but anyway theres what i think.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

jamie_coxon said:


> well i work 4 rentokil and we use mouse traps that use co2. and the only problem is that its like posioning the mouse coz weve had people say that they cat as died coz it ate a ead mouse that had been gassed. but im not sure as these mice were fully grown. but i must agree that gas is the most humane way ofkilling them. dunno weather ur local pet shop wud no from there suppliers


A cat would NOT die from eating a mouse that was in a CO2 trap. Are you sure they're not CO traps (Carbon MONoxide) - which might stay in the body after death? 

Think about it. CO2 is the gas they use to make Coca-Cola fizzy. If it was lethal to SWALLOW it wouldn't be in people food. Now, inhaling enough of it will cause you to die - but swallowing it does not.

CO2 is the most humane way of euthanising feeder mice and it does not leave any toxic residues. It does work on pinkies, but it takes a little longer. 

If you do use the flick method be sure you KILL them rather than just giving them fractured skulls and bloody noses.

And the freezer... pinkies can't control their body heat at all. From what I understand they die of hypothermia VERY quickly. 

I use CO2 for everything.


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> A cat would NOT die from eating a mouse that was in a CO2 trap. Are you sure they're not CO traps (Carbon MONoxide) - which might stay in the body after death?
> 
> Think about it. CO2 is the gas they use to make Coca-Cola fizzy. If it was lethal to SWALLOW it wouldn't be in people food. Now, inhaling enough of it will cause you to die - but swallowing it does not.
> 
> ...


ive got about 10 ov em down in ma house i know wot they are lol when u think ov it wot ever goes in the mouse goes into woteva eats it. i dont know if its the same for snakes as it is for cats, im just talkin from experiance. u think ov it a fully grown mouse or rat will ave alot more gass in it then a baby. the bestoption i wud sayis 2 ask sum one that supplies pet shops with them and ask how they do it. give us 10 mins and i will double check with one ov ma m8s from work


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

rite here goes

the co2 traps we use are little cartridgesof 3g of carbon Dioxide. on average the mouse will inhale half 2 3 quarters of this amount in order to die. this then stays in the system. the only method of not putting ur pet at harm is when u defrost them pop a hole in the mouse whilst its defrostin the water gets in and washes it out. providing u ave frozen them


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Jamie, have you EVER drunk a can of soda pop?

Carbon dioxide gas is ONLY dangerous if inhaled in large quantities!

Carbon dioxide gas is what makes soda pop bubbly.
It's what makes beer and champagne bubbly.

It is NOT toxic to swallow it.

I have fed freshly killed adult mice which died from CO2 overdose directly to my snakes with no problems - they've still got their last lungful of CO2, if they hadn't exhaled it, that is.

And the rodents supplied to you from pet shops and online suppliers were almost certainly CO2'ed.


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## Ste (Apr 16, 2007)

i no all of the pinkys/mice etc that u buy for my snakes are euthanised via gas and none of my snakes have ever been ill from eating those mice.


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

I use a deodorant can flame thrower. Crisps the skin nicely


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

jamie_coxon said:


> rite here goes
> 
> the co2 traps we use are little cartridgesof 3g of carbon Dioxide. on average the mouse will inhale half 2 3 quarters of this amount in order to die. this then stays in the system. the only method of not putting ur pet at harm is when u defrost them pop a hole in the mouse whilst its defrostin the water gets in and washes it out. providing u ave frozen them


 
Gets out drill!!!!!!!.........:lol2:
Sorry, that made me laugh............:lol2:


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## Loadsacorns (Aug 1, 2007)

*Mouse culling...*

Firstly {waves} hello to everyone..I'm new here!! 

Call me a total wimp, but I tend to go and buy my mice from A&N Frozen foods...they kill humanely with the non-toxic gas too, and it saves me a lot of effort raising mice, as well as all of my cornsnakes and the hatchlings!! 
I don't think I could do things as well as them...my corns have produced huge eggs, huge babies and no non-feeders...so they've also helped improve my snake's overall condition beyond belief. They work magic I tell ya! lol

See here if you want to see their ethics etc...

A & N Frozen Reptile Food

Anyways...looking forward to knowing you all!


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

Loadsacorns said:


> Firstly {waves} hello to everyone..I'm new here!!
> 
> Call me a total wimp, but I tend to go and buy my mice from A&N Frozen foods...they kill humanely with the non-toxic gas too, and it saves me a lot of effort raising mice, as well as all of my cornsnakes and the hatchlings!!
> I don't think I could do things as well as them...my corns have produced huge eggs, huge babies and no non-feeders...so they've also helped improve my snake's overall condition beyond belief. They work magic I tell ya! lol
> ...


You don't work for them, do you....?...................:lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Loadsacorns (Aug 1, 2007)

:Na_Na_Na_Na: :rotfl:

That was funny....but no, I only go and buy my mice from them!! 
It's just that in other places it was rare to get a medium mouse that was really a medium mouse, not some squashed half-starved specimen....so A&N got my loyalty!! I couldn't raise mice as cheaply as they sell 'em either! 

Thanks for popping up and posting at me anyways...thought I was gonna get left in a corner!! LOL


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Loadsacorns said:


> go and buy my mice from A&N Frozen foods...


Shame they don't deliver... they DO have good prices.

It doesn't take much work to sign up with a courier like City Link.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

CO2 is nice and safe but years ago ( 15 or so ) I went to a place near Wolverhampton where they killed chicks by gas for eagles and owls.
They used chlorine and the place stunk like a swimming bathes.
They would gas the chicks and leave them for a few hours to "air off" 
These guys were supplying pet shops, around the midlands, for reptile consumption to. 
They said the gas would evaporate in open air and the birds were safe to freeze after a few hours.
Wonder if anyone still used chlorine to kill animals for use as food these days.
Stephen.


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## Pro Mantis (Apr 7, 2007)

My dad used to kill them for our channel catfish if we ever dug up a rats nest..... he got the straight end of a knife and boshed them on the side of the head.


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## hermanlover (Jul 8, 2007)

i breed my own mice and am in the middle of making a website but it needs a lotof work yet. 

it depends on the size of the mice to how you kill them. personally this is how i do it-

pinkies - tupperware in freezer (is not painful as they die before the cells freeze as they can not regulate temps) or simply drop them on the floor from about 6 -7 ft. 

fuzzies - this one depend on whether the eyes are open or not. if the eyes are closed the mice can still not regulate their own temps so it is ok to freeze them without them being in pain or you could put your arm as high as you can and drop it (do it properly or you will just injure the mouse)

weaned mice - these will now have opened their eyes and be able to regulate their own boddy temperatures. for this the most humane way is cervical dislocation or gassing them. personally i gas them as they just fall asleep and with cervical dislocation it can go wrong.

i use gas for any mice older than this stage. the main rule is if the mouse has open eyes do not freeze it live or it will feel pain. if they have closed eyes they are still too young to regulate temps so they die before cells freeze.

hope it helps,
lee


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

SnakeBreeder said:


> CO2 is nice and safe but years ago ( 15 or so ) I went to a place near Wolverhampton where they killed chicks by gas for eagles and owls.
> They used chlorine and the place stunk like a swimming bathes.
> They would gas the chicks and leave them for a few hours to "air off"
> These guys were supplying pet shops, around the midlands, for reptile consumption to.
> ...


 
OH S**T......I'm a swimming pool engineer, and I know of 3 adults that have died through chlorine gas! In my pools plant room, i have a respratory mask worth over £150, just incase some chemicals get mixed up wrong and causes it!

The stuff you smell in pools is just chlorine residue, which means there is a lot of crap in the water chemistry.

Sorry for the random post, just did not want people to start using chlorine gas in there house, and christ knows where else!: victory:


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## Roysy (Jun 9, 2007)

An excellent thread with sound advice. I do not see how CO2 killed mice could cause a health hazard to any other animal and it does sound like a humane way to kill them. I am curious as to how one sets up such a chamber - anyone with personal experience have an pics of their set up?
Roy


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## Alans_Reptiles (Jun 2, 2007)

californiankinglover said:


> i breed my own mice and am in the middle of making a website but it needs a lotof work yet.
> 
> it depends on the size of the mice to how you kill them. personally this is how i do it-
> 
> ...


i breed my own mice as well and do it in the same way ie up to fuzzies frezze then older than that cervical dislocation. i was just wondering if there were any licences on keeping Co2 and where is the best place to get is and if any one has any plans or pics of the chambers used for gasing


thanks Alan


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Alans_Reptiles said:


> i breed my own mice as well and do it in the same way ie up to fuzzies frezze then older than that cervical dislocation. i was just wondering if there were any licences on keeping Co2 and where is the best place to get is and if any one has any plans or pics of the chambers used for gasing
> thanks Alan


No, you don't need a license to keep CO2 canisters... otherwise it'd be difficult to buy Soda Stream machines or paintball gear. I buy mine from an online welding supply shop.


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## Andy b 1 (May 14, 2007)

Roysy said:


> An excellent thread with sound advice. I do not see how CO2 killed mice could cause a health hazard to any other animal and it does sound like a humane way to kill them. I am curious as to how one sets up such a chamber - anyone with personal experience have an pics of their set up?
> Roy


get some bicarb of soda and vineagar put it in a pastic bag and breath it in, its agony


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Andy b 1 said:


> get some bicarb of soda and vineagar put it in a pastic bag and breath it in, its agony


Not least because you can't control the concentration of the gas at all. Sounds like you inhaled close to a 100% concentration.

If you had a 20-30% solution to start with, you wouldn't feel any pain - you'd just zonk out... one of the major effects of CO2 inhalation regulated CORRECTLY is anesthesia.


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## hellboy07 (Aug 10, 2007)

cant you just do what they do 2 cows put a big shock 2 there head witch kills them straight a way a flick 2 the head thats a straight nock out they wouldnt even feel it let a lone member it tonce hey flicked thats it gone 4 ever there 2 small 2 know what its all about wouldnt they ?


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

Try one these rodent reaper's I think they work very well?

Rodent heaven:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

hellboy07 said:


> cant you just do what they do 2 cows put a big shock 2 there head witch kills them straight a way a flick 2 the head thats a straight nock out they wouldnt even feel it let a lone member it tonce hey flicked thats it gone 4 ever there 2 small 2 know what its all about wouldnt they ?


Nice idea - if you can get the hit right first time every time.

Otherwise, you wind up with an injured, terrified mouse with a heck of a headache...


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## monitorlady (Jul 28, 2007)

*olde method*

I sometimes get given surplus gerbil offspring and use the method of breaking the neck. I can only do it when they`re quite big though. My dad taught me how to do it quickly and accurately so that I don`t make the animal suffer. He used to go rabbiting with his ferrets when he was younger so had plenty of practice. I`ve never had the heart to kill a rabbit though (get too attached to ones I`ve bred), apart from a wild one that had myxamatosis and had to be put out of it`s misery (a neighbour had found it and dumped it in my garden thinking it was one of my pet rabbits. Needless to say all 10 of my rabbits caught it, none of which were offered to my snakes as food of course because they were diseased). The only reason I don`t breed rats etc for food myself is not knowing if it would be cost effective by the time I`ve fed them and paid out for shavings etc to keep them clean and so on. I don`t really like killing them, I have to prepare myself to kind of shut off emotionally and definitely not make friends with them! That`s the reason I have 2 pet gerbils. I got attached to them and convinced myself (and my hubby, who at the time was saying "NO MORE PETS! You`ve got enough.) that there wasn`t much meat on them yet anyway because they were tiny little runts in the litter. They`re still here over a year and a half later.


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

I did care of exotics at college and we were taught to break there neck by banging them on the edge of a table, this was the most humane way to do it. I cant remember where on the rats/mice body you were meant to hold (tale base i think, it was 10 years ago and memories a bit lax)


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

The "Whack" is only humane if you get it right first time every time. Get it wrong and you've just seriously injured the animal without killing it.


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## scotshop (Apr 20, 2007)

greenlikegecko said:


> if they get a bit bigger you can suffocate them or CO2 them to death... or if you can snap there necks.... google it you will get lots of useful pics : victory:


 
DO NOT suffocate them or drown them which a lot of people do with rats and larger mice. if someone reports you, you can get in serious trouble. 

as far as mice go the most humane (and reccomended by home office) method is to break their neck. you can either do this by separation of the atlas and axis with 2 fingers or push a pen flat across the back of the neck and give the tail a quick hard jolt. 
*ask your vet to show you how to do it properly.*

rats are best gassed with rising CO2 as they are very difficult to kill by snapping the neck and the last thing you want to do is have a half dead rat screaming and writhing about. some people hammer a screwdriver through the top of the head straight through the brain. personally, it makes me feel sick but it is effective and very quick.


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

just thought id pop in again..

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killing pinks..

flick to the had/nose - will die sintantly.. may twitch... - you can also freeze .. the only reason freezing is normaly bad... is because it freezes the fluid around the brain first.. and causes alot of pain and stress.... this does not happen with pinkies...

DO NOT TRY AND Co2 THEM -- they do not strive for oxygen... they are often suffocated by their mother laying on them to feed... so dont ened much oxygen

----------------

fluffs..

similar to pinkis.. except a harder flick is required... or the end of a screwdriver...

you can NOT freeze these..t WILL cause stress and pain to the mouse/rat ..

best way is to gas it.. 

AGAIN HOWEVER .. the wrong concentration of Co2 is bad...

i thought that bicarb and vinegar was fine... but if done to the wrong measurements.. you will jsut suffocate the animal.. stressing it... whereas the right concentration.. will make it go to sleep 

--------------------------

anything bigger..

gas.. plai and simple... you can BFT (blood forced trauma) but if u hit it wrong you will just break the neck/back... it wont move.. but will still be alive...

this is the sme with snaping the necks... if u do ti slightly wrong.. it will not die strasight away... it will suffer

-----------------------
was told of this method 2day.. works with anything...

place all rodents into a sealed container (barrel)...

at the bottom there is a small hole.. covered on the inside with wire meshing... on the outside is a pipe.. wich is connected to a very powerful vacuum (just like a hoover)

the air is sucekld out... and the lid will "pop" making a loud banging noise..

this kills all the rodents instantly 



peace

James


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## scotshop (Apr 20, 2007)

missbehavin said:


> I did care of exotics at college and we were taught to break there neck by banging them on the edge of a table, this was the most humane way to do it. I cant remember where on the rats/mice body you were meant to hold (tale base i think, it was 10 years ago and memories a bit lax)


 
best way for guinea pigs and hamsters but would not reccomend for anything else - usually doesn't work with rats and to do it properly you need a decent whack which may cause the mouse to burst.


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## scotshop (Apr 20, 2007)

Hardwicki said:


> Ive often thought about breedin for food. sounds awful but it makes sense in my mind. Surely because you have gased them with CO2 which is Carbon Dioxide it will have no adverse effect on the reptile fed to because the mouse will only be holdin a tiny amount in its tiny lungs and it is a natural gas anyway. This is how i see it, please correct me if i'm wrong i dont want to misinform or put any animal in danger.
> 
> cheers : victory:


you are correct but to be honest gassing is really only needed for rats or anything bigger that is hard to kill quickly. mice snap very easily.

pinkies will die naturally if leftsomewhere cool. they fall in to a deep sleep and thats it. no stress. would not recommend putting them in a freezer though as i feel this would no doubt cause pain and unnecesary suffering.


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## WHITEY RS4 (Jul 2, 2007)

The best way is to knock it on the head just like a fish quick and painless the way to do it to pinks is just get a 30cm {plastic} ruler i know it sounds dumb but its a fast way to do it. Line the head up with the end of the ruler and flick the ruler straight on its head! Job done game over! Then stick it in a freezer, People on here have been on about puting them straight in the freezer alive NO WAY! It will take them about a minute and a half to die and thats minimum! If somebody stuck a knife in your ribs for 7 seconds it would seem like an eternity never mind a minute and a half!
If you are thinking about breeding live food in large quantity and looking for a humane way to kill them then you need to invest in something more appropriate for the job.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

After many weeks of worrying if I could 'do away' with my feeder mice and gerbils I've managed to 'do away' with my first lot of mice tonight.
I made my own 'chamber' a few weeks ago. I've had three cans of carlesberg export and 'done away' with a few mice.
I must admit to a little guilt as I got them out of the cage the male bit me so that did away with any guilt as far as he was concerned.
I put them in the chamber and added the gas. I expected a lot of 'cafuffle'(sp) but they just settled in the bottom and went to sleep.I did give them a paper bed. I think one seemed to 'gasp' once or twice but nothing like I expected.
It definitely seems the most humane method.

I'm an inate animal lover and couldn't stand the thought of doing this to any living animal but as I choose to have reptiles then it just has to be done.
I still can't bring myself to say what I am doing to them though!!!!!!!!!!


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## yellow_rat_gal (Mar 24, 2007)

I use the Osbourne technique, bite the head off!






just kidding


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