# treating water or leaving to sit???



## micky0 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi all, I just got my pac man today . I left water I used to wet substrate and fill water dish ect to sit for 24 hours. Now I was just wondering as this is my first frog, would tap safe that you use for fish be OK or repti safe, or should I just leave to sit for a day .


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

I know most people use tap safe for their frogs. I don't think letting it sit for a long period is any good. Yes this may reduce the chlorine but the heavy metals will still be present in the water. This is bad for pacman frogs.

For my pacmans I use mineral water.


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Aquarium water conditioner will be just perfect for the job.
I make mine up in large water dispenser bottles and leave it to sit for 24 hours.


Mike


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yep, agree with both posts above- sitting will remove chlorine, but not chloromine or other nasties- any fish-safe water conditioner from your local petshop will do the job.


----------



## micky0 (Jul 25, 2012)

Great thanks guys, I did boil it first but will go get some tapsafe :2thumb:


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

ask your local water supplier what is added to your water.
In my area there is no chloromine added, just chlorine.[im in south yorkshire]
I have been using tap water aged for 24 hours for all my amphibians[mainly newts], for the last 20 years or so and alls been fine, so in my case buying additives for tap water would just be an un needed expense:bash:


----------



## micky0 (Jul 25, 2012)

morg said:


> ask your local water supplier what is added to your water.
> In my area there is no chloromine added, just chlorine.[im in south yorkshire]
> I have been using tap water aged for 24 hours for all my amphibians[mainly newts], for the last 20 years or so and alls been fine, so in my case buying additives for tap water would just be an un needed expense:bash:


Yes I will find out, I did get a bottle of tap safe but it is worth knowing


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

morg said:


> so in my case buying additives for tap water would just be an un needed expense:bash:


Who wants to take the risk ?
It`s cheaper to buy conditioner than it is to replace a load of dead frogs.


Mike


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Who wants to take the risk ?
> It`s cheaper to buy conditioner than it is to replace a load of dead frogs.
> 
> 
> Mike


Well, like Morg, I used aged tapwater for years, with no apparent bad effect- but as I got into fishkeeping in particular, I found out about all the other nasties that can be present. I wouldn't stress about it, but I would be inclined to go the 'better safe than sorry' route these days, but that's my preference, rather than a rule.


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

frogman955 said:


> Who wants to take the risk ?
> It`s cheaper to buy conditioner than it is to replace a load of dead frogs.
> 
> True frogman,
> ...


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok guys we have a newbie here in mickyo.
Think about what your saying.
Your saying that its okay for her to just chuck anything into her frogs and hope they are still alive next morning.
Have you ever known a water company to tell the truth ?
I`ve offered advice which I think is safest for her and her frog.
Your both saying forget what i`m saying and don`t waste money buying conditioners.
Okay what do I know.
I`m outa here.

Mike


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Ok guys we have a newbie here in mickyo.
> Think about what your saying.
> Your saying that its okay for her to just chuck anything into her frogs and hope they are still alive next morning.
> Have you ever known a water company to tell the truth ?
> ...


No, Mike, I said no such thing. I said that for years, given the knowledge available, I did what everybody else did, and aged my tapwater. With *current* knowledege, my inclination is to use conditioners, as there is a great deal more gunk in common tapwater than chlorine. I _did _have to say though, that I didn't suffer any apparent bad effects in that time, because it is true and it is my experience. That is in no way an attack on your viewpoint or your advice.


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

At the end of the day it's the animals welfare at stake. For the sake of a few quid surely it's always best to be safe rather than sorry. 

I would also like to add just because a water company does not add chlorine or chloromine in the water what's to say its from safe??

I'm an avid marine reef keeper. I would never consider using untreated tap water.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

As above, I'm not advocating non-treatment- knowledge has moved on- largely as a result of the marine hobby, as it happens. What I *am* saying, is even without this knowledge, some of us managed to keep frogs well.


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> As above, I'm not advocating non-treatment- knowledge has moved on- largely as a result of the marine hobby, as it happens. What I *am* saying, is even without this knowledge, some of us managed to keep frogs well. Just saying..



That's a fair comment


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Staying out of the treat vs don't argument, apart from saying neither, I filter.

A HMA filter works out much cheaper than buying bottles of conditioner, and unlike conditioner REMOVES the nasties. All conditioners do usually is chellate/lock up the nasties like copper, mercury etc, where a HMA filter (heavy metals axe) properly removes them from the water, along with hormones, rust particles etc etc etc, without removing things like calcium and magnesium.

Unlike an RO, they produce NO waste water.

As an ex freshwater shrimp keeper I learned not to trust even the best tap water. There are shrimp that make a good canary, in that if you use ANY tap water, conditioned or not, they drop dead on you. Which tells me that standing or conditioning, you aren't getting the quality as good as you could do.

Cue the guy who comes along and starts evangelising about rain water... lol

Ade


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Staying out of the treat vs don't argument, apart from saying neither, I filter.
> 
> A HMA filter works out much cheaper than buying bottles of conditioner, and unlike conditioner REMOVES the nasties. All conditioners do usually is chellate/lock up the nasties like copper, mercury etc, where a HMA filter (heavy metals axe) properly removes them from the water, along with hormones, rust particles etc etc etc, without removing things like calcium and magnesium.
> 
> ...


That's why I don't use my ro water as everything is stripped out that is beneficial


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Donna w said:


> That's why I don't use my ro water as everything is stripped out that is beneficial


Agreed, I do however use RO water in my misting system, other water clogs the nozzles really really quickly and make a right mess of the glass. Where water gathers in pools however I tend to top this up with water I've filtered through my HMA. I sometimes give my plants a spray with HMA using a hand sprayer too, so they get a bit more into them than what they get from RO.

I still have to unclog my nozzles, but it's algae that clogs them up rather than harder to remove lime. Nothing a soak in bleach, followed by.... tap water conditioner, wont fix. :lol2: That's the one and only thing I use tap water conditioner for, removing the chlorine bleach from my nozzles post soak. : victory:

Ade


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ade, you've mentioned your HMA filter before- where did you get it?


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

frogman955 said:


> Ok guys we have a newbie here in mickyo.
> Think about what your saying.
> Your saying that its okay for her to just chuck anything into her frogs and hope they are still alive next morning.
> Have you ever known a water company to tell the truth ?
> ...


I apologise if you take offence to my posts , I was not in any way rubbishing your advice, but when it comes to using aged tap water for amphibians I can only reflect on my experiences doing so over many many years.
Maybe we are very lucky in this area? but i have and still do use aged tap water to keep adult amphibians,including fully aquatic newts and axolotls, and then each year use it to succesfully raise countless newts from egg through larvae to metamorphosis, as well as for dartfrog tadpoles[aged tap water with dead oak leaves]so for myself and my local newt breeding friends agad tap water works well.
freshwater shrimp were also mentioned in this thread and I also have red cherry shrimp, and crystal red shrimp, which are again kept in aged tap water with partial water changes done weekly.
HOWEVER thinking more about it, then yes you are correct, better to be safe than sorry and use tapsafe unless 100% certain:whistling2:


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Ade, you've mentioned your HMA filter before- where did you get it?


I got my HMA and RO from The Collins Water Products: The Collins Water Products. Nearly £60, but when you factor in that you can get a full set of filter replacements for it which will do about 8000 gallons (as will the ones that come with) as I said they're cheaper to run than using dechlorinator.

As to your comment re shrimp Morg, sure low grade CRS and cherry shrimp are pretty hardy shrimp. Assuming here that you aren't keep SS+ grade CRS etc, if you are then you are miraculously lucky with your water supply. Not least as soft tap water is quite rare. Then there are the insanely sensitive Singapore bees... Most tap water in the UK though is full of all different nasties, heck I wont drink it if I can help it....

Ade


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

As to your comment re shrimp Morg, sure low grade CRS and cherry shrimp are pretty hardy shrimp. Assuming here that you aren't keep SS+ grade CRS etc, if you are then you are miraculously lucky with your water supply. Not least as soft tap water is quite rare. Then there are the insanely sensitive Singapore bees... Most tap water in the UK though is full of all different nasties, heck I wont drink it if I can help it....

Ade

No mate my shrimp arent top notch top grade, I cant afford those lol:blush:
Although I wouldnt mind trying with some at a later date.

Just to clarify as well, my shrimp were not put into freshly aged tap water but into established planted tanks which were originaly set up with aged tap and weekly partial water changes are done using aged tap
I first tried some crystal reds in a set up using bottled springwater after being advised to try that way, but they didnt survive sady.

After having quite a few failures using bottled spring, and also rain water, trying to raise newt eggs-larvae, and also dartfrog tadpoles through the years I reverted to aged tap very successfully.
I can see though that different people use different methods and have different views, so I will now sign off from this discussion :whistling2:


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I would actually agree with you that not all bottled water or rain water are equal. Ok you didn't say that explicitly, but that's the problem with them for sure.  For a while now I have lived in towns/cities where the rain water is likely full of rather noxious chemicals such as lead etc. As to bottled, a heck of a lot of the stuff sold is just filtered tap water, often just filtered through carbon, and the variation between brands is astounding. I did some tests on some once, compared Asda own brand with Volvic. The Volvic was quite soft, whilst the Asda stuff was liquid rock....

I am sure that there are some areas of the country where the tap water is quite pure though, I know of some fishkeepers who can get away with it too. Around here though it's absolutely foul stuff, turns the 5 micron prefilters on my systems brown within hours of plumbing them in and stinks beyond belief of chlorine. Our water report is like reading an ICI shopping list.... 

I think water will always be a debate prone to a little heat to be honest, these kind of threads always get a little warm.  I actually understand where you are both coming from, I think Mike is just concerned that sometimes we get newbies who instead of taking the information given as just a means to informed consent rush into a decision, so sometimes it's best just advising the path of caution. There are many methods that work for different people, none of them are wrong as they work. Heck some of the methods I use I wouldn't even mention on here as they might not work for somebody new to the hobby as well as they have for me. 

It's a shame really we can't have 2 types of threads. Threads examining different methods amongst experienced keepers, and threads where we reply to newbies to give them the safest answer.  We tend not to think about having debates/discussions though usually until somebody asks a question. lol

Ade


----------



## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

frogman955 said:


> Ok guys we have a newbie here in mickyo.
> Think about what your saying.
> Your saying that its okay for her to just chuck anything into her frogs and hope they are still alive next morning.
> Have you ever known a water company to tell the truth ?
> ...


 hmmmm add more chemicals to remove chemicals.
i like morg have kept amphibs for years but nearer 40 years. i've never used any water safe or such and never had a problem. I have a large container in which i leave it to age. i have water plants in the container and just top it up as it goes down. I even use untreated tap water as a cure for fungus on axolotls and yes it works great. we really seem to live in a society now where everything is kept in a sterile bubble.


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

I even use untreated tap water as a cure for fungus on axolotls and yes it works great.

Yes I also use fresh tap water to treat amphibians brought to me injured,or fungused, and the chlorine in it is great for treating wounds-fungus.
I have just let a bufo bufo go, that came to me with an injured foot.
first treatment before thinking of anything else was to put him in an inch of untreated tap water for a day, this cleaned the wound well, so after transfering to a dry kitchen paper substrate and feeding him lots, he recovered well enough to go back into the wild.

I think us old timers just do things a bit differently rigsby


----------



## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I know a man who breeds dozens on Mantella and Dartfrogs who uses tapwater that has been standing for his tadpoles.On the counter side of that I have used untreated tapwater for tadpoles and they have all died.It really is dependant on the tapwater and I think that tadpoles are more sensitive than adult amphibians.


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

I would be interested if you guys can give me the tds of your tap water. 

The reason I ask is that my tap water sits around 350 - 400 compared to the spring water I use that is around 150.

What tds would you expect using a hma filter?


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

colinm said:


> I know a man who breeds dozens on Mantella and Dartfrogs who uses tapwater that has been standing for his tadpoles.On the counter side of that I have used untreated tapwater for tadpoles and they have all died.It really is dependant on the tapwater and I think that tadpoles are more sensitive than adult amphibians.


Probably something to do with gills, as in chlorine burning gills. Not every tap gives water with the same quantity of chlorine even though. Ours is so strong it stinks, I struggle to even drink it, seriously.

I think an important thing here though is, the folks not using chemicals ARE still treating their tap water. Apart from Morg saying he uses water that still has chlorine in it to treat fungus, all of you leave it to stand for quite a while, often with aquatic plants in it. There's the think, aquatic plants make awesome water filters, removing chemicals etc.

Oh and no, I'm not a huge fan of adding chemicals to remove chemicals, sometimes it causes more problems than it removes. Hence I use HMA filtered water.

Ade


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

This thread has got me thinking.

I'm spending quite a few quid on bottled water. As I already have an ro unit, is it ok to re mineralise the water then use it for my frogs?
People use this method for keeping tropical fish. Is this safe for frogs?


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Donna w said:


> This thread has got me thinking.
> 
> I'm spending quite a few quid on bottled water. As I already have an ro unit, is it ok to re mineralise the water then use it for my frogs?
> People use this method for keeping tropical fish. Is this safe for frogs?


Unless you are using a misting system, then I can't see there been a problem remineralising RO for use. You wouldn't need to remineralise by a lot either.

Ade


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Unless you are using a misting system, then I can't see there been a problem remineralising RO for use. You wouldn't need to remineralise by a lot either.
> 
> Ade


That's what I was thinking, it may be worth trying but I would like to know if anyone already does this


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Staying out of the treat vs don't argument, apart from saying neither, I filter.
> 
> A HMA filter works out much cheaper than buying bottles of conditioner, and unlike conditioner REMOVES the nasties. All conditioners do usually is chellate/lock up the nasties like copper, mercury etc, where a HMA filter (heavy metals axe) properly removes them from the water, along with hormones, rust particles etc etc etc, without removing things like calcium and magnesium.
> 
> ...


:welcome::lol2:

not much to add to what has already been said,other than yup i do use rainwater and it works well....for me.
Other than that I think you guys have put out some really good thoughts all of you ,with all the different viewpoints.I know some of it seems contradictory,but really Ade's already covered that and why .

ya know what, it is a shame that there isn't one right way that works for all ,especially when helping a new keeper,but unfortunately there just isn't a right way , there is the best way for each of us with the ever present variables,part of what makes this so damn interesting is how we all solve these problems

good thread guys:2thumb:
thanks

Stu


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Donna w said:


> That's what I was thinking, it may be worth trying but I would like to know if anyone already does this


I would very much doubt it to be honest Donna.

Phib keepers tend to be either dart keepers, or other phib keepers. MOST of the RO users will be dart keepers using automated misting systems, and they're using RO as it wont block their nozzles and mark the glass. Remineralising it would put the calcium and magnesium back into the water, and it's this that forms the deposits on the glass and in the nozzles.

Everybody else probably uses either water conditioners, rain water or aerates and stands their tap water for at least 24 hours (hoping they realise that you're supposed to aerate it in order to help remove the unwanted gases...).

In fact, I am quite likely the ONLY phib keepers using RO AND HMA filtered water. :lol2: I am seriously paranoid about the tap water around here, I've read my water report, and it tastes foul! Stinks too. Oh and turns a 5 micron sediment removing prefilter brown within a few hours...

All of this said, remineralising RO water WILL put back the good salts, calcium, magnesium etc, and as such I see no reason not to try it, other than the cost of remineralising salts.

All I will say is, like bottled water not all tap water conditioners are equal. You probably don't want the ones that claim to improve the slime coat of fish etc. Also, a heads up, some brands contain chemicals that interact with those present in other brands, which can cause BIG problems. Shouldn't be such an issue for terrestrial phibs though as you can completely replace their water, leaving none of the other present.

All I will say other than this though is, I have never used tap water conditioner for my amphibians (other than to remove the bleach from my misting nozzles after cleaning). I started out using Volvic bottled water, but found this too expensive. I already had my HMA and RO filters, so switched to using these and haven't looked back since.

I'm afraid that the topic of water will NEVER get you a simple "do this" response, and always always turns into a debate amongst phib keepers. The simple reason been that we all have methods that work for us perfectly, but may well cause huge problems for others. My advice at this point would probably be to try to get a water report from your water company, then decide from there. They don't tell you everything, but they're a good start.

Ade


----------



## Donna w (Jul 16, 2012)

I suppose all I can do is give it a go. I'm sure things will be fine. I will have to weigh up the price of salts compared to bottle water and go from there.
Thanks for the great advice wolfenrook


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

frogman955 said:


> Aquarium water conditioner will be just perfect for the job.
> I make mine up in large water dispenser bottles and leave it to sit for 24 hours.
> 
> 
> Mike


this must be the ideal solution bearing in mind this was in reference to having one frog. 

anyhow i'll throw my method into the equation. having kept a marine reef system for many a year i used to use a deionizer filter for optimum water quality for the corals and such topped up with re-mineral and PH solutions. i now vary this method by having a 2/3 deionized and 1/3 rainwater preparation. this at the moment seems to be ideal for my edge tropical, firebelly abode(pool & misting) and cham's abode (drinking & misting). this works for me in my area due to decent tap water quality so the chamber provides many a gallon to make it worth the cartridge cost replacement every blue moon.

nic


----------



## micky0 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi all, Interesting reading. I have been using tap safe after leaving water to sit. But Im now thinking of getting a water filter. So far pac man has been good apart from being impacted all week , but has now pooped after a honey warm water bath. Thanks for all the info :2thumb:


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

I thought id reignite this thread after my latest findings using aged tap water here in South Yorkshire.
I set up a medium sized tank 5 days before buying some crystal red shrimp, added an airstone, moss, plants etc 2 days before buying them.
Bought 10 of the shrimp and added to the tank.
This was around a month ago.
All the shrimp are fine and lively, then today I found my first few baby crystal red shrimp hiding in the moss, so for me I can definately state again, that ageing tap water here in South Yorkshire is fine with no need to add any water treatment or dechlorinator:2thumb:


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

What grade CRS are they Morg? I ask as grades A, B and C do fine in dechlorinated tap water. An SS+ or SSS though not so much.

Ade


----------



## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Unless you are using a misting system, then I can't see there been a problem remineralising RO for use. You wouldn't need to remineralise by a lot either.
> 
> Ade



what would you reminerlise with, when I had discus I they had a trace elements bottle.


----------



## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

I have an RO for marine and frog spray system and mister I add a dash or organic plant food (basicly its molasses) for the plants to get some goodness.

but I think I may go with a HMA aswell


----------



## micky0 (Jul 25, 2012)

Yes I have been using tap safe for Rolo, had him over 4 months now and he is doing great!! :2thumb: I thought better safe than sorry


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

terryTHEfrog said:


> what would you reminerlise with, when I had discus I they had a trace elements bottle.


Hiya Terry

You can sometimes buy Ken RO Right over here in both liquid and powder form. There's also products like GH booster, and I believe a few other brands make stuff to remineralise with, including API/Mars. I used to mix with HMA filtered water though to remineralise. A LOT of discus keepers now just use HMA though rather than RO as they have found that modern strains do fine in harder water so long as it's clear of the garbage.

Ade


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Just to get a debate going, :whistling2: As I've mentioned elsewhere, the one tank that I use 'straight' untreated tapwater in is my clawed frog tank. This is based on old laboratory practice, where it was thought that a certain amount of chlorine in the water helped to protect from bacterial and fungal disease. Some labs even added a little salt, as well- although I don't do that. I'm not entirely certain whether this practice has been supersceded, or even if it's especially effective, given that I only do partial water changes each time in any case, but I've had these particular frogs for 25 years plus, now, so *something* is going right! 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' and all that...


----------



## RubyTiger (Dec 12, 2012)

Interesting thread. When I first got into amphibians I tried leaving tap water to stand/adding conditioners but I just felt like I couldn't trust it still particularly as my tap water is v. hard, you can smell the chlorine when you run the tap and sometimes it's even a bit cloudy so I won't even drink it! and I live near the town centre so I ruled out rainwater so I've been using bottled water. After reading some things on here though I think I will look further into other options. 

I do know of someone who travels out to the countryside and collects stream water for his 'phibs... I don't know if (or how) he might treat it for the possibility of parasites or whatever. Anyone got any views on this?


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

RubyTiger said:


> Interesting thread. When I first got into amphibians I tried leaving tap water to stand/adding conditioners but I just felt like I couldn't trust it still particularly as my tap water is v. hard, you can smell the chlorine when you run the tap and sometimes it's even a bit cloudy so I won't even drink it! and I live near the town centre so I ruled out rainwater so I've been using bottled water. After reading some things on here though I think I will look further into other options.
> 
> I do know of someone who travels out to the countryside and collects stream water for his 'phibs... I don't know if (or how) he might treat it for the possibility of parasites or whatever. Anyone got any views on this?


Here in the Southeast, I'd be dubious about using stream or rainwater; too much chance of 'nasties'. Stu is lucky to live in a 'rural Paradise'! :lol2: Incidentally, a good way to check the 'cleanliness' of stream water is to look out for freshwater shrimps- they have a very low tolerance of pollutants, so if they are present, the water is pretty clean. As for parasites, I try to never use either water or prey food from ponds etc that have native amphibians. I'm a bit inconsistant, though, since I do use live leafmould (although that's from a mixed beech/sweet chesnut wood high on the North Downs, far from any pond) and fallen leaves from our country garden.


----------



## Luke (May 19, 2005)

Wolfenrook said:


> I am seriously paranoid about the tap water around here, I've read my water report, and it tastes foul! Stinks too. Oh and turns a 5 micron sediment removing prefilter brown within a few hours...
> 
> Ade


My wife came from Walsall and agrees with exactly what your saying. She can taste the difference since living in coventry and going back to visit. If i have a glass of water at her nans I cant drink it and end up throwing it away.

I use conditioner, although apparently our water is supposed to be very good, Although apparently when i kept malawis my tap water was very close to just being able to put dechlorinator in and add the malawis. I also though rarely get limescale build up so again im confused, when i had marines i had a ro unit fitted. I am going to ask my old school firends advice on this as he use to work in the labs at severn trent.

Ive just been reading about using rainwater, If I invested in a water butt for my garden could I then use the collected rainwater on my wtf's??


----------



## andy bolt (Mar 22, 2013)

R.O water is the safest way to go, its all i use in my marine tanks, misting system, water bowl or even in my tropical tanks, it take all the crap out that the water board put in, you can buy it by the litre from most good fish shop, or a R.O system isn't to much money depending on how much you use, it's always worth keeping well aerated though if your going to have a supply of it sat around.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

andy bolt said:


> R.O water is the safest way to go, its all i use in my marine tanks, misting system, water bowl or even in my tropical tanks, it take all the crap out that the water board put in, you can buy it by the litre from most good fish shop, or a R.O system isn't to much money depending on how much you use, it's always worth keeping well aerated though if your going to have a supply of it sat around.


RO needs to be re-mineralised, though.


----------



## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Hiya Terry
> 
> You can sometimes buy Ken RO Right over here in both liquid and powder form. There's also products like GH booster, and I believe a few other brands make stuff to remineralise with, including API/Mars. I used to mix with HMA filtered water though to remineralise. A LOT of discus keepers now just use HMA though rather than RO as they have found that modern strains do fine in harder water so long as it's clear of the garbage.
> 
> Ade


yeah most if the german "stendker" can tolerate the higher ph the asian is old school low ph.

I was thinking RO for sprays and misters then RO topped of with HMA for standing water, as I will the RO unit anyway and time youve paid out potions over the year you may aswell have he unit !

I agree about cloudy water and taste ! I am se london the other half has those brita filters in the fridge ! 
is the HMA water safe for drinking, may just do away the brita filters then ???


----------



## andy bolt (Mar 22, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> RO needs to be re-mineralised, though.[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe in fish keeping but not with Amphibians, personally i've never added anything to my R.O water,I have 2 water butts set up, one for my reef tank which is heated and aerated, and one for my tropical tanks, misters & frog tanks this one again is aerated but it has a handful of coral gravel in a set of tights in the bottom just to bring the PH back up a little as normally it comes out the R.O unit at 6.5 with that handful of coral gravel it brings the ph up to 7, also by using different filters in R.O unit you can target what you want to take out the water


----------



## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

good point !!

not sure if its true but I am sure someone said on here that plain RO as standing water is usd ut can cause the frogs kidneys to pack up over time ???

BUT my main reason was to give the plants some goodness to grow with.


----------



## andy bolt (Mar 22, 2013)

Thats a good point on the plants hadn't even thought of that, never heard about the kidney point, going to do some CSI-ing and report back


----------



## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

ive been adding a bit of bio bizz organic fert just a drop


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

terryTHEfrog said:


> good point !!
> 
> not sure if its true but I am sure someone said on here that plain RO as standing water is usd ut can cause the frogs kidneys to pack up over time ???
> 
> BUT my main reason was to give the plants some goodness to grow with.





andy bolt said:


> Thats a good point on the plants hadn't even thought of that, never heard about the kidney point, going to do some CSI-ing and report back


Yeah, it's because the levels of salts in the frog are higher than the RO outside water, so they absorb too much water into the body- reverse *reverse* osmosis!


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

It can cause cell damage in other ways too. It's a similar principle to how marine aquarists kill fish parasites by giving their fish a bath in fresh water. The parasites take in too much water thanks to osmosis and pop, as they aren't adapted to living in such low salt concentrations. The fish though are better able to survive without damage for longer, so the parasites are killed before the fish is harmed.

So anyway, a bigger risk is actually the water going into the frog, rather than the salts leaving the frog.

You may find this article interesting Herps and Distilled Water, it illustrates the problem well.

Run off from misting though tends to pick up solids, salts etc from decor, substrate etc, hence the risk is massively reduced. I still tend to regularly top up permanent pond type areas with some HMA just to be certain.

The harder water is good for plants too, for one thing it contains calcium and other metal salts which are required in the process where plants utilise nitrates. This article is about tomato plants, but gives you a good idea and is free An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie.

To this end, every now and then I spray my vivs with HMA water by hand, sometimes adding a tiny quantity of Easylife ProFito (about once a year tops these days).

I use RO for misting though as it extends the life of both the pump and the nozzles.

Ade


----------

