# hybino's and sunglows



## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

the great debate. something occured to me last night while i was dreaming about morphs and genetics (how tragic) right....

this season i could get (first gen) a het hypo(dom gene, so would show) **** albino(which will also show) so the leo would be a hypo albino... hybino.

however a sunglow(2nd gen) is a SH(TCTB) albino so the genetics of that would be **** hypo (dom) and **** albino(which would show) which would then give a super hypo albino... sunglow.

i've sort had this difference confirmed when looking at the welsh reptile breeder site, as he has (next to eachother) a hybino at £75 and a sunglow at £100 suggesting there is a difference in them genetically.

what are everyones thought on this??


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Hypo isn't a codom mutation, it is dom, so both het and **** hypo look the same. Superhypo is a line bred reduced spotting from hypo. So the difference is in the line bred traits visually, usually anyway, one persons hybino is anothers sunglow.


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

a hybino is a hypo(less than 11 body spots)albino and a sunglow is a super hypo baldie(no body spots or head spots)albino hybino's and sunglows usualy also are tangerine and have a carrot tail too, so basicaly are albino versions of htct's and shtctb, respectively


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

boywonder said:


> a hybino is a hypo(less than 11 body spots)albino and a sunglow is a super hypo baldie(no body spots or head spots)albino hybino's and sunglows usualy also are tangerine and have a carrot tail too, so basicaly are albino versions of htct's and shtctb, respectively


 
yes i understand all the definitions as i have a sunglow and two hypos and will be breeding them, i was talking geneticaly, as hypo being a dominant gene, shows wether its one copy or two copies, so i was wondering if a distinction could be made, in the sense of het hypo **** albino(same as het mack snow[one copy]) would be hybino, and **** (super)hypo(two copies same as super snow[two copies]) would be a sunglow. or would you define both one copy hypo and two copy hypo albino's a sunglow/hybino.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

There is no visual difference between het and **** hypo. The super bit comes from line breeding reduced spotting.


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

as mrmike said hypo acts dominant so hets and ****'s visualy are the same, hypo albino's are hybino's and linebread hybino's that are selected for no head or body spots and a stronger orange colouration are true sunglows, you never know if you're answering a beginer or a seasoned keeper on here so i just tried to put my previous post as simply as i could, good luck with the sunglows, 
are they bell albino or tremper btw? 
i'm guessing tremper as bells are more expensive than £100


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

alright fair enough.

yeah they're trempers as thats what i'm playing with at the mo, but going to be getting some great morphs and working towards some awesome morphs. mack snow trempers, super snow trempers next year(hopefully) sunglows, albinos, macks, hypos. and some of what i'd like to get but depends on how long it will take, super snow patternless and SSPtrempers, creamsicles alsorts!! should be good fun plus what ever else comes out along the way of trying to get what i want


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Looks like some nice long term plans there :2thumb:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> a hybino is a hypo(less than 11 body spots)albino.


IT'S NOT HOW MENY.IT'S WHERE THEY ARE. 

Remember this albino HYPO! Way more then 11 body spots.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

gazz said:


> IT'S NOT HOW MENY.IT'S WHERE THEY ARE.


I knew that was coming


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> Hypo albino's are hybino's and linebread hybino's that are selected for no head or body spots and a stronger orange colouration are true sunglows.


Stickly speaking There is no reconized differance between Hybino and sunglow.Hybino is a albino hypo created by Ray hines and sunglow is a albino hypo created by TUG.When hypo is plus albino people seem to forget about the differance between hypo and super hypo'etc.But i do think it is a good way to go for us leo owners to sell out are albino + hypo as albino hypo or hybino.And are albino + super hypo as albino super hypo or sunglow.There are people doing this but i still see albino + hypo as both hybino and sunglow and vice vera for albino + super hypo.

So pep's
Albino + hypo = hybino?
Albino + super hypo?
Regarless of orgin.Would make life esayer.When expaning genetics or selling.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MrMike said:


> I knew that was coming


Sorry! for the volume but i find the 11 spots hypo 12 spots not.Really anoying:bash:.


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

gazz said:


> IT'S NOT HOW MENY.IT'S WHERE THEY ARE.
> 
> Remember this albino HYPO! Way more then 11 body spots.


 
is this a pic of an adult or sub adult?? also, it looks like there was a blizzard involved somewhere in this gecko's genetic past, but thats a whole other thread lol

is this mel's jeffory from nick lamb? btw


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## Jon2ooo8 (Sep 6, 2008)

:lol2:this is interesting to read


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## platypus (Aug 27, 2007)

*sunglow*

Sunglows are a definate try before you buy . Get picks of adults if you can , but remeber same as SHCT an average baby can turn into a stunning adult


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

platypus said:


> Sunglows are a definate try before you buy . Get picks of adults if you can , but remeber same as SHCT an average baby can turn into a stunning adult


it's a funny thing you said that coz ive had a few that wer stunning as babys that were average as adults, not SHTCT's but other morphs that were bright orange when i bought them then they developed loads of spots and went yellow, it's great when they turn out better than you expected though


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> is this a pic of an adult or sub adult?? also, it looks like there was a blizzard involved somewhere in this gecko's genetic past, but thats a whole other thread lol
> 
> is this mel's jeffory from nick lamb? btw


As far as i know full adult.As far as i know there's no blizzard in this leo.Are you going down the root of Her blizzard are hyper spotted.Though this is often the case that het blizzard and het patternless often express hyper spotting.It often seems to be the same of Balbinos and het Balbinos.This is not a solid way to ID het blizzard and het patternless is just often seem to be the case.Spot style means nothing other than there possible ancestory linking them to the species involed in there genetics.It dosen't matter if there standed spotted or hyper spotted spot mount is spot amount.Yes it's Jeffory said to be Talbino hypo het RAPTOR though i can clearly see it Balbino hypo possibly a BalbinoTalbino hypo but deffo not a just a Talbino hypo.


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

gazz said:


> IT'S NOT HOW MENY.IT'S WHERE THEY ARE.
> 
> Remember this albino HYPO! Way more then 11 body spots.


 
we weren't talking about hypo's we were talking about the hypo gene that is found in sunglows and hybinos. my sunglow has no spots what-so-ever which i think is another good maker for sunglow and hybino, as i have seen hybinos with spotting, and generally speaking those advertised as sunglows have no spotting.




> Stickly speaking There is no reconized differance between Hybino and sunglow.Hybino is a albino hypo created by Ray hines and sunglow is a albino hypo created by TUG.When hypo is plus albino people seem to forget about the differance between hypo and super hypo'etc.But i do think it is a good way to go for us leo owners to sell out are albino + hypo as albino hypo or hybino.And are albino + super hypo as albino super hypo or sunglow.There are people doing this but i still see albino + hypo as both hybino and sunglow and vice vera for albino + super hypo.
> 
> So pep's
> Albino + hypo = hybino?
> ...


i think i will be doing this, as it was only working out the genetic possibilities that i came upon the difference genetically of a single copy hypo albino and doudle copy hypo albino, and thought there should be a distinction with the hybino/sunglow argument. so next year i will have hybino's(single copy hypo) and hopefully the year after i will have sunglows(double copy hypo).


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

kirsten said:


> i think i will be doing this, as it was only working out the genetic possibilities that i came upon the difference genetically of a single copy hypo albino and doudle copy hypo albino, and thought there should be a distinction with the hybino/sunglow argument. so next year i will have *hybino's(single copy hypo) and hopefully the year after i will have sunglows(double copy hypo)*.


Het and **** hypo are identical, there is no difference. Hypo is not a codom gene, even though the word super is used.


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

my point isn't about their appearence, my point is about demonstrating their genetics with naming. i understand they both look the same, but then for that reason along should we not make a distinction so people know whats in their geckos make-up.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

kirsten said:


> my point isn't about their appearence, my point is about demonstrating their genetics with naming. i understand they both look the same, but then for that reason along should we not make a distinction so people know whats in their geckos make-up.


I understand what you mean. But if you have two het hypos, then the offspring will have a 25% chance of being **** hypo, but how would you tell? As visually they are the same.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

kirsten said:


> we weren't talking about hypo's we were talking about the hypo gene that is found in sunglows and hybinos.


There the same hypo gene :thumb:.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

kirsten said:


> i think i will be doing this, as it was only working out the genetic possibilities that i came upon the difference genetically of a single copy hypo albino and doudle copy hypo albino, and thought there should be a distinction with the hybino/sunglow argument. so next year i will have hybino's(single copy hypo) and hopefully the year after i will have sunglows(double copy hypo).


The next breeding you do you would to breed your hybino/sunglows/hypos/super hypos'etc.With normals/albino normals so you can determing wheather there (single factor) or (double factor).

Normal X Hypo-(single factor) = 50% Normal, 50% Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Normal X Hypo-(double factor) = 100% Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(single factor) = 25% Normal, 50% Hypo-(single factor), 25% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = 50% Hypo-(single factor), 50% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(double factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = 100% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

For albino version just add albino in frount of the morph.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

kirsten said:


> so next year i will have hybino's(single copy hypo) and hopefully the year after i will have sunglows(double copy hypo).


If you have a good example of a albino super hypo there's no reasion why next year you wouldn't get albino hypo(SF)&(DF) or/and albino super hypo (SF)&(DF) next year it all comes down to whather you albino super hypo is (SF) or (DF).


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

gazz said:


> If you have a good example of a albino super hypo there's no reasion why next year you wouldn't get albino hypo(SF)&(DF) or/and albino super hypo (SF)&(DF) next year it all comes down to whather you albino super hypo is (SF) or (DF).


 
i wont get double factor as i only have one sunglow, however i can achieve SF, this is why i thought about making a distinction, as i know the babies will be single factor, therefore in my eyes hybinos, but i do understand where mike is comming from, if i then breed to a df to a sf i wont be able to differentiate the babies and say whether they are df(sunglow) or sf(hybino)

i just thought it would be good if we could make the disticntion, as this year i will be able to. but after that i may not.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

kirsten said:


> i wont get double factor as i only have one sunglow, however i can achieve SF, this is why i thought about making a distinction, as i know the babies will be single factor, therefore in my eyes hybinos, but i do understand where mike is comming from, if i then breed to a df to a sf i wont be able to differentiate the babies and say whether they are df(sunglow) or sf(hybino)
> 
> i just thought it would be good if we could make the disticntion, as this year i will be able to. but after that i may not.


The only way people will reconize hybino and sunglow is in spots sence.Hybino(albino + hypo + spots) and sunglow(albino + hypo + no! body spots).Your getting it all wrong i can see sort of where you trying to go but you will loose every one going down the road your going.The only way is to keep records and once proven them to be what they are use to terms (HET or ****) or (SINGLE FATOR or DOUBLE FACTOR) or (ONE COPY or TWO COPY).If your sunglow is (single factor) and you bred it to a normal the offspring would be 50%normal HET albino & 50%(SF)hypo type being a mix of hypo and super hypo HET albino.And if you sunglow is (double factor) and you bred it to a normal the offspring would be 100%(SF)hypo type being a mix of hypo and super hypo HET albino. 

Though hybino and sunglow is in fact ancestory.People will acept hybino as albino + hypo + spots.And sunglow as albino + hypo + no! body spots.It wouldn't fly any other way.


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

never mind. yes i know about het's and homos i was simplifying for others to understand, this wasn't meant to be a debate, but an interesting idea as it was something i had come across and wondered if anyone else had considered the destinction. because they're is such little understanding as if whether there is a difference in the first place. because i was shot down once for saying what you just have, that hybinos are spotty and sunglows spotless.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

kirsten said:


> never mind. yes i know about het's and homos i was simplifying for others to understand, this wasn't meant to be a debate, but an interesting idea as it was something i had come across and wondered if anyone else had considered the destinction. because they're is such little understanding as if whether there is a difference in the first place. because i was shot down once for saying what you just have, that hybinos are spotty and sunglows spotless.


Well in my opinon the simple answer is no and Gazz has reiterated the point that both are effectively just labels of different breeders.
As gazz has said the original "hybino" was created by Ray Hine other breeders such as The Urban Gecko decided to take the "hybino" and better it but added their tangerine into the lines.
Effectively the are both the same genetic make up hypo (single or double copies) albinos. Whether there be tangerine thrown in. After all you can get (and as the picture gazz posted proves) tangerine hypo albinos (with spots) aswell as tangerine hypo albinos (without spots).

If someone wants to class a hypo albino with spots a hybino and one without spots a sunglow then so be it but genetically really they are they same!!!


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

shall we all leave this alone now, i'm fed up of looking at this thread


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

kirsten said:


> shall we all leave this alone now, i'm fed up of looking at this thread


:lol2: Okay


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## platypus (Aug 27, 2007)

*Sorry*



kirsten said:


> shall we all leave this alone now, i'm fed up of looking at this thread


It is a very valid point and i left this thread a few days to see what happened . It is still a suck it and see scenario.. Thats it i can leave it now . Sorry:whistling2:


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