# Dwa snake enclosures in the UK?



## jb92 (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi so Im in the process of building enclosures and discussing with my local council what I'd need to do to obtain my licence however they are a waste of time at the moment, they dont seem to know anything about DWA licencing at all. I literally had to tell the guy that the snakes I want will require a DWA. 
So I'm just wondering what enclosures are usually suitable in the Uk and what you guys use, would a double locked rack system work or should I build vivs? 
The species Im looking at getting include mainly Aspidelaps and some Crotalus down the line, both of which I do have expierience with just not in my own collection. 
Im planning on aquiring the first specimen or two around the end of the year as to provide plenty of time to prepare everything and to go on a couple of DWA handling days seeing as its been a while since working with any. 
Many thanks and I look forward to your replies. 
JB Owens


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

The problem in the UK is that there is nothing set in stone and most Local Authorities have no experience in dealing with applications.

Personally I think any viv glass/wood/plastic that can be locked is and should be acceptable.

The main criteria should be whether your room is secure

Feel free drop me to drop me an e-mail if you want help

Graeme


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## chrismisk (Oct 6, 2008)

This applies to over here but may give you an idea of what is needed and is possibly a good guide for the council if they really are that clueless.

http://www.doeni.gov.uk/niea/snakes_a5_rebranded_2009.pdf.pdf


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## jb92 (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi many thanks for the replies, I may drop you an email once the viv builds take place, Im currently organizing the entire reptile room and building vivs/racks for everything so I thought it would be a great time to plan the best place to have a set of DWA enclosures. The room is fully secure, I have a double locked door with a window and bristles on the bottom to avoid having any gaps. To get to the room you have to enter through another locked door and room so essentially I have a secure room leading to my secure rep room if you get what I mean. 
Council got back to me today and said they were waiting on a reply from Defra about the requirements for the particular species Im after, I think they're slightly confused as when I said I have some plans/ideas for the enclosures they told me I would have to go through planning before constructing them lol. 
Many thanks for you help and replies guys!
JB Owens


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

jb92 said:


> Defra



Dont
Ever 
F+++ing
Request
Answers


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## jb92 (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi sorry dont know what you mean by that lol I take it Defra arent any good at providing info to the council?
Still waiting for environmental health to reply at the moment. 
Many thanks
JB Owens


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

jb92 said:


> Hi sorry dont know what you mean by that lol I take it Defra arent any good at providing info to the council?
> Still waiting for environmental health to reply at the moment.
> Many thanks
> JB Owens


It was a quote from a farmer when I mentioned DEFRA , he said this is what we "farmers" think DEFRA stands for


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Theres a specific guy at DEFRA who deals with DWA queries hes about as useful as a parachute on a train.


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

Which L.A do you come under?

The basics of mine is
Locked enclosure
Two locked doors between the animals and the outside
Adequate signage 
Fire extinguisher and insurance


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## jb92 (Apr 24, 2010)

Im under the Anglesey authorities in North Wales and by the sounds of it I dont think they deal with many applications to be honest lol 
JB


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

My biggest piece of advise would be try to enusre it doesnt go in front of a public commitee panel.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

SiUK said:


> My biggest piece of advise would be try to enusre it doesnt go in front of a public commitee panel.


I take it this happens when people find out and get up in arms about it?

How do they find out ? Freedom of information act or someone spouting off "leaking" the information ? 

I know you had a lot of problems yourself. Just wondered how.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Just thats the way they do it in South Wales, all licensing applications from Taxi's to DWAL go in front of a panel in the weekly council meeting which is open to members of the public and the press. Someone must of seen my application was about to go through and told the press (apparently they are never normally there) I (naively) didnt even realise that it was public until the newspaper article came out.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

I see, South Wales is not the place to bother considering keeping hots.

Thanks for the info mate


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

> 6)
> *Subject to subsections (2) to (5) of this section*, a local authority may grant or refuse a licence under this Act as it thinks fit, but where it decides to grant such a licence it shall specify as conditions of the licence—


 As far as I understand it, a local authority must follow the legislation, and inspect the property and receive the application, fee and proof of insurance, before denying or allowing a license. The act is in place to regulate the keeping not prevent the keeping. 



> (a)
> conditions that, while any animal concerned is being kept only under the authority of the licence,—
> 
> (i)the animal shall be kept by no person other than such person or persons as is or are specified (whether by name or description) in the licence;
> ...


The last bit shows clearly that there is a requirement of the LA to stipulate what it wants in order for the applicant to meet it's requirements for a license. 



> (3)
> A local authority shall not grant a licence under this Act unless it is satisfied that—
> 
> (a)it is not contrary to the public interest on the grounds of safety, nuisance or otherwise to grant the licence;
> ...


 SiUK did you appeal to the Magistrate, given the LA did not follow the legislation as set out, and denied your application on grounds other than those set out in the Act? They are required to stipulate the grounds by which they would accept an application for a DWA license. 

There is a requirement for evidence from the LA showing you can't meet the requirements before denying an application. Otherwise they are taking your fee knowing they have absolutely no intention of ever granting a license which is fraud.


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## BigRoj (Oct 26, 2010)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> I see, South Wales is not the place to bother considering keeping hots.
> 
> Thanks for the info mate


 
Or Tonbridge and Malling

They have never issued a license. And the woman i spoke to said "and we never will"........


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

BigRoj said:


> Or Tonbridge and Malling
> 
> They have never issued a license. And the woman i spoke to said "and we never will"........


That's very kind of them........ My area is blinding on the price. I was shocked when I found out the price, I nearly fell over, I was expecting it to cost a arm and a leg. I doubt I would ever go down the hot route unfortunately but I just had to find out. Curiosity and all that


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## BigRoj (Oct 26, 2010)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> That's very kind of them........ My area is blinding on the price. I was shocked when I found out the price, I nearly fell over, I was expecting it to cost a arm and a leg. I doubt I would ever go down the hot route unfortunately but I just had to find out. Curiosity and all that


Ah now she did quote me a price £875 + the vets fees.


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## BigRoj (Oct 26, 2010)

BigRoj said:


> Ah now she did quote me a price £875 + the vets fees.


Oh and asked more out of curiosity as well. LOL


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

Mines a couple of hundred. I believe they have to give a price etc even if they have no intention of letting people keep them- I could well be wrong


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

BigRoj said:


> Or Tonbridge and Malling
> 
> They have never issued a license. And the woman i spoke to said "and we never will"........


I would move there just to challenge that claim!


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## jb92 (Apr 24, 2010)

From what I've heard so far they would be breaking the law refusing a license to somebody who has met every requirement?

The plan now is to build about 5-6 double glass door (sliding vivs) over the summer then get the vet inspection sorted. Room security is pretty much sorted now so hopefully they wont want anything else adding. 
JB Owens


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

50%man50%biscuit said:


> SiUK did you appeal to the Magistrate, given the LA did not follow the legislation as set out, and denied your application on grounds other than those set out in the Act? They are required to stipulate the grounds by which they would accept an application for a DWA license.
> 
> There is a requirement for evidence from the LA showing you can't meet the requirements before denying an application. Otherwise they are taking your fee knowing they have absolutely no intention of ever granting a license which is fraud.


They did issue the license I was licensed for two years in South Wales (three years previously in Somerset, with no problems) they just made my life very difficult


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## legallyblonde (May 13, 2013)

SiUK said:


> They did issue the license I was licensed for two years in South Wales (three years previously in Somerset, with no problems) they just made my life very difficult


How difficult did you find it in S Wales? I am currently in Somerset but holding off on DWAL as I will be moving in the next few years (prob next year or so) to S Wales and wanted to avoid any issues taking anything with me.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

legallyblonde said:


> How difficult did you find it in S Wales? I am currently in Somerset but holding off on DWAL as I will be moving in the next few years (prob next year or so) to S Wales and wanted to avoid any issues taking anything with me.


Somerset were brilliant, South Wales an unbelievable nightmare, I genuinely wouldnt recomend anyone in South Wales applying. I am the 4th person all under different South Wales LAs that has had a nightmare. They make everything public. My name and address details and the animals I kept were plastered over the press. As soon as my neighbours kicked off I lost all support from the council they sought legal advice to try and revoke my license but found they couldnt they then tried to put pressure on me to surrender it (I didnt). At the end of the two years when the license expired I then didnt renew it. I had just had a baby daughter and the neighbours had finally calmed down and I no longer had the energy to fight it. 

Sorry its so negative but I genuinely would not wish what I went through on anyone.


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## legallyblonde (May 13, 2013)

SiUK said:


> Somerset were brilliant, South Wales an unbelievable nightmare, I genuinely wouldnt recomend anyone in South Wales applying. I am the 4th person all under different South Wales LAs that has had a nightmare. They make everything public. My name and address details and the animals I kept were plastered over the press. As soon as my neighbours kicked off I lost all support from the council they sought legal advice to try and revoke my license but found they couldnt they then tried to put pressure on me to surrender it (I didnt). At the end of the two years when the license expired I then didnt renew it. I had just had a baby daughter and the neighbours had finally calmed down and I no longer had the energy to fight it.
> 
> Sorry its so negative but I genuinely would not wish what I went through on anyone.


Thank you for your honesty, its what I want to hear as ultimately it will make a difference whether I commute or move (both are feasible options for me). I am finding it quite amazing how different LA decide to deal with these things.


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