# 'True' European Green Toads, Bufo viridis, Italy



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

I know there's a few viridis fans on the forum so i thought i'd share with you all some 'true' European green toads, Bufo viridis, from Italy. I've always thought they knock the socks off the usual Egyptian green toad which is a subspecies readily available relatively cheaply, but these are a little harder to acquire and consequently cost substantially more though i believe they're well worth it. These are last years juveniles i've hibernated in a cool area of my cottage and am growing them on in a faunarium in the kitchen, i have a few outdoors aswell which should spawn this year, in Dorset this occurs around June when the nights are warm and wet. I have also found the Egyptians will survive AND breed kept year round in outdoor vivaria, a very hardy subspecies indeed. Anyway, here's an '09 female, would post more but my image host is playing up...


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

A couple of '09 Italian males to your left, and two females to the right. 










Same two males and females.










And again, but with another smaller female on the right.


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## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

very nice specimens as always Al!!!
hope they breed for you this year

Ben


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## LIZARD (Oct 31, 2007)

they are absolutley fab, thankyou for sharing


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Those females are very nice.


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Wow. Nice colours.
Don't really live up to their name though.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Pleased you like 'em Ben, Lizard, and Morgan. I guess i need to be more of a member on here (some may say i am HAHA) for them to get the oooh's and aaaah's... 

They really do vary in colour alot, and this can change between te same animal from day to day - the pics genuinely don't do the reds or greens justice.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Don't you believe it Ipreferaflan - as i say they really can vary on a day to day basis, some are 'more' green. And it should be pointed out that these are real youngsters - just like alot of anurans the colours develop more vividly as they grow, this picture is a good example of developing colours in juveniles, compare the red on the paratoids of the slightly larger female to the younger female, it's starting to come through - by the time they're fully adult they're truly stunning.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

And a viridis juvenile from GREECE, as mentioned in thread, like many juvenile anurans the colours are yet to develop...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What are they like to keep? Looks wise they're one of my fave toads.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What are they like to keep? Looks wise they're one of my fave toads.


They're very easy to keep. Wait till the adults are out of hibernation and i'll get you some outdoor vivarium shots of some truly beautiful toads. They're typically nervous to start with but most individuals get very tame in time. The Greeks i have on a limestone/clay mix substrate indoors and out, the Italians are on limestone/limestone gravel/sand mix indoors/out.


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## LIZARD (Oct 31, 2007)

cant wait to see more pics of these lush dudes:2thumb:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

LIZARD said:


> cant wait to see more pics of these lush dudes:2thumb:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Here's one for you Lizard and a couple of other things (excuse poor photo quality)...


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

They are nice toads.I keep brongersemai which remind me of miniature versions although their lifestyle is different.they are cheaper on the food bill as well.
Are those Common Midwife Toads/The variegata are a nice yellow.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

colinm said:


> They are nice toads.I keep brongersemai which remind me of miniature versions although their lifestyle is different.they are cheaper on the food bill as well.
> Are those Common Midwife Toads/The variegata are a nice yellow.


Hi Colin, yes those are Alytes obstetricans, few different bloodlines there - part of a new breeding group i'm putting together. Some of the Alytes tadpoles in the garden are huge now, will get some pics of those over the weekend, time permitting. And yes, the variegata are stunning - i'm going to be putting that batch of 14 into some indoor breeding quarters over the next week or so.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Very nice indeed- you'll have to join my unofficial campaign to get bufonoid toads back into popularity:lol2:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Very nice indeed- you'll have to join my unofficial campaign to get bufonoid toads back into popularity:lol2:


Cheers Ron - consider me signed up! They beat the 5h1t out of Cerato... no i won't say it


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## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

Alex M said:


> Cheers Ron - consider me signed up! They beat the 5h1t out of Cerato... no i won't say it


 
i will then,........ bloody horned frogs:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Toads are def less boring, anyway...:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Toads are def less boring, anyway...:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Agreed, and these are active throughout the day in the summer too (consistent behaviour with the breeding season).


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Ben W said:


> i will then,........ bloody horned frogs:Na_Na_Na_Na:


You not calmed down yet HAHA


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

so you keep these outside all year do you Al, mmm wouldnt mind getting some of these to do that with, what sort of setup do you keep them in outside. Would they be any good in a greenhouse year round
See Al just cant seem to give up completely on the phibs :bash:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

richie.b said:


> so you keep these outside all year do you Al, mmm wouldnt mind getting some of these to do that with, what sort of setup do you keep them in outside. Would they be any good in a greenhouse year round
> See Al just cant seem to give up completely on the phibs :bash:


I knew you couldn't mate  and yes, i'll sort you some out!

Basically, mine are in the big Laguna vats designed for Koi carp, i drill holes in the bottom for drainage and add a hibernacula constructed of a polystyrene box covered and filled with dried leaves and moss. There is a shallow pool area for breeding purposes although i've known them to breed in water bodies as small as 45cm x 45cm with 10cm water depth (but that was an accident one year, slightly unexpected and late in the season). As soon as the evenings are warm and wet, they will start breeding. This typically happens around June in Dorset. They bask throughout the day during the summer/breeding season and are a very 'showy' species. They'll do very well for you in a greenhouse too, even without rain on their heads they will breed due to barometric pressure. You could also keep some other Euro herps with them if you wish, Pool frogs etc but i keep all mine species specific.


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Nice one Al, yer havent really got time for the dartfrogs etc but as ive got a 8'x6' greenhouse pretty much doing nothing i thought might as well use it year round, Used to use it for breeding whites but that was only in the summer so its still got a sprinkler system installed. And a pond with a waterfall so pretty much ready to go just needs planting up.
Like you say can get plenty of the egyption green toads but these are not as nice as the 'proper' ones you have also a lot harder to get hold of so would be good if you can sort me some out cheers: victory:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Will definitely sort you out some, we need to keep the Euro viridis in the trade, they're such charming and beautiful toads. I'm in total agreement with you mate about the difference between Euro viridis and Egyptian viridis, the arabicus subspecies simply do not match the European viridis for vivid colouration or the rich marbling pattern. I have heard that the arabicus are likely to be split into an entirely different species soon. But the arabicus, which i do not keep anymore, are also super hardy - have kept these for 2 seasons outdoors (including hibernation) in the past and bred them both summers in this fashion. I also heard that European viridis were exchanging hands for 50 euro's EACH at this years Hamm show but i don't know how true this is, i know that Marc at Dartfrog has a single Greek viridis juvenile for £20 so this seems very reasonable given their rarity nowadays.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Definately true regarding the price but he stll had them towards the end of the show so I guess people did not want them for that price.On the other hand a Dutch breeder was selling young last September for 8 Euros.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

colinm said:


> Definately true regarding the price but he stll had them towards the end of the show so I guess people did not want them for that price.On the other hand a Dutch breeder was selling young last September for 8 Euros.


8 Euro's sounds much more reasonable! I can't believe someone would have a go at selling these for 50 Euro's each Colin, mindblowing really. But then if he managed to sell one or two here and there i'm sure he'll have been happy. I was all ready to retire then haha


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Alex M said:


> Will definitely sort you out some, we need to keep the Euro viridis in the trade, they're such charming and beautiful toads. I'm in total agreement with you mate about the difference between Euro viridis and Egyptian viridis, the arabicus subspecies simply do not match the European viridis for vivid colouration or the rich marbling pattern. I have heard that the arabicus are likely to be split into an entirely different species soon. But the arabicus, which i do not keep anymore, are also super hardy - have kept these for 2 seasons outdoors (including hibernation) in the past and bred them both summers in this fashion. I also heard that European viridis were exchanging hands for 50 euro's EACH at this years Hamm show but i don't know how true this is, i know that Marc at Dartfrog has a single Greek viridis juvenile for £20 so this seems very reasonable given their rarity nowadays.


Ok Al thats great let me know when youve got some available and prices etc, yer see Mark has 1 left think ill leave it there though:whistling2:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

richie.b said:


> Ok Al thats great let me know when youve got some available and prices etc, yer see Mark has 1 left think ill leave it there though:whistling2:


They're £48 each or 2 for £300.


Don't be silly about money mate, i will give you some. I'll give you a shout on this nearer the time.


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Alex M said:


> They're £48 each or 2 for £300.
> 
> 
> Don't be silly about money mate, i will give you some. I'll give you a shout on this nearer the time.



2 for £300 bargain ill have 12 :lol2:

Al you cant go giving things away youve got to make a living now

speak to you soon


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## kettykev (May 15, 2009)

A couple from Crete


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Very nice did you take these photos yourself in crete or as these your toads

here a photo of an egyption green toad which are common in the trade, just to show you the difference


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## Scarlet_Rain (Jan 16, 2009)

I have two but mine are bright green and dull down at certain times of the year. I have had my two a year now and they are so entertaining that I couldn't part with them. I keep both of mine in a glass tank with a metal hamster cage style lid. The tank is 2ftx46x18 which has a soil substrate and is littered with rocks, moss, hides, some wood to provide a climbing area and a large water dish.

I own the _Bufo viridis_ which are the cheaper more common species but be that as it may they certainly do not lack charm or beauty.

(heres a similar photo to what mine are)


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## kettykev (May 15, 2009)

The photos were of wild Green toads in Crete, a very beautiful species and one which I never tire of seeing


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Very nice Kev, similar to some of my Greeks (locality - Rhodes). I never get bored of them either!.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Scarlet_Rain said:


> I have two but mine are bright green and dull down at certain times of the year. I have had my two a year now and they are so entertaining that I couldn't part with them. I keep both of mine in a glass tank with a metal hamster cage style lid. The tank is 2ftx46x18 which has a soil substrate and is littered with rocks, moss, hides, some wood to provide a climbing area and a large water dish.
> 
> I own the _Bufo viridis_ which are the cheaper more common species but be that as it may they certainly do not lack charm or beauty.
> 
> ...


Nowt wrong with Egyptians, and not the purpose of the thread to discredit them as dull viridis!. Do you know what sexes your Egyptians are, Scarlet Rain?. If they're both spotted with green, it's very likely they're female, males tend to be very dull, a more uniform grey-green but always with quite striking eyes, although sometimes you get the odd quite colourful-ish male. Post some pics if possible, cheers Al


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

I haven't kept many european herps for a few years now, but really starting to miss my bufo viridis and Bombina variegata. I managed to get some some viridis back in my life (6 CB09 ) but I am still looking for Bombina v. 

Have you bred viridis yet Alex ? There is a bit of a knack. In my experience toads kept in an outdoor viv with a pond will not breed without some habitat manipulation. I mananged to bred viridis for around 8 years running, using the method I used. Basically I kept them in a greenhouse with only a small water area and transfered them to a coldframe, in the spring, which had a pond the same size as the coldframe itself. The water was only around 10cm at the deep end up to 3-4cm at the shallow end.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> I haven't kept many european herps for a few years now, but really starting to miss my bufo viridis and Bombina variegata. I managed to get some some viridis back in my life (6 CB09 ) but I am still looking for Bombina v.
> 
> Have you bred viridis yet Alex ? There is a bit of a knack. In my experience toads kept in an outdoor viv with a pond will not breed without some habitat manipulation. I mananged to bred viridis for around 8 years running, using the method I used. Basically I kept them in a greenhouse with only a small water area and transfered them to a coldframe, in the spring, which had a pond the same size as the coldframe itself. The water was only around 10cm at the deep end up to 3-4cm at the shallow end.


Hello Mark,

Yes, bred viridis numerous times over the years, but have never done anything in particular to stimulate breeding other than provide a 'viridis friendly' outdoor set up. As they prefer shallower warm waters to breed in, that's exactly what they've got. In all the incarnations of viridis enclosures that i've had, the pool has ALWAYS caught the sun and been shallow water depth max 20cm - Absolutely crucial to breeding this species (no different to your calamita out in Portugal ). So yes, the positioning and depth of the pool is the difference between breeding this species or not. Not any old pond will do!  

As for variegata, not sure what the laws are on you keeping them out in Portugal - my understanding is that Portugal doesn't allow for European species to be kept in captivity? Or hopefully that just applies to indigenous species and that way you'll be able to keep variegata seeing as they're not native to your country. If you want some variegata, you know where to come  

Hope you're well mate, have been meaning to speak to you!
Al


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

*To wish impossible things*

I think the movement , the "migration" of the toads helps in getting them to breed. They wouldn't breed in the greenhouse even when I had what I thought was a suitable. pond.

Yes I can keep european herps just not native ones (though I see no point in keeping natterjacks for example when I see them most nights just wandering around the place). We must meet up in the Autumn ! I hope if nothing else to be visiting you at your work place on business.

Have you and Paul G. fallen out ? He was in Portugal in the last few days.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

p.ss what yellow belies do you have ? Do you have any spare ?


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> p.ss what yellow belies do you have ? Do you have any spare ?


I've got a few odds and sods but my main breeding group is some B.v.variegata. If you look back through the pictures in this thread you'll see some shots of their beautiful orange/yellow underbellies. I've got a 27 strong group of adults, of which about half are in my kitchen and are being slowly warmed up - the others are outside doing their thing, and i also have some overwintering tadpoles from late last summer. Let me know when you're in London again. I'll see what i can sort you out mate, Al


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> I think the movement , the "migration" of the toads helps in getting them to breed. They wouldn't breed in the greenhouse even when I had what I thought was a suitable. pond.
> 
> Yes I can keep european herps just not native ones (though I see no point in keeping natterjacks for example when I see them most nights just wandering around the place). We must meet up in the Autumn ! I hope if nothing else to be visiting you at your work place on business.
> 
> Have you and Paul G. fallen out ? He was in Portugal in the last few days.


Just seen this at the tail end of the page! Strange with your viridis, mine are in 6 x 4 vats and breed fine, i've even accidentally bred them in a temporary enclosure that had a pool 45cm square and was approximately 10cm depth! Didn't see that one coming...

No, have not fallen out with Paul - Far from it! Heard from him last week to say he was going to Portugal (we didn't arrange anything!) and he's text me from wherever he is out there! Will sort you some variegata this autumn then, just let me know how many you want - i can get you as many CB youngsters as you want during the summer, maybe some adults too, Al


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## serpentsupplies (Sep 4, 2009)

alex - i know i don't see you much but everytime i do you seem to always mention green toads. you must have a fetish for them or something! are very nice though. a truely underestimated true toad!


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

serpentsupplies said:


> alex - i know i don't see you much but everytime i do you seem to always mention green toads. you must have a fetish for them or something! are very nice though. a truely underestimated true toad!


You know my fetish parties too well Mark. Make sure you dress in green and look like a toad next time please - you know the rules, ta Al


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## serpentsupplies (Sep 4, 2009)

Alex M said:


> You know my fetish parties too well Mark. Make sure you dress in green and look like a toad next time please - you know the rules, ta Al


thats just standard isn't it! it's when you ask me to start eating worms that i draw the line.


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## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

And you have to have a vet remove your tongue too, so you can attend!!!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)




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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

(The above pics are of some Pelobates fuscus btw)

A breeding update.... Hungarian viridis amplexus last week


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

And again, but different locality (Italy), viridis amplexus last week...


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

And the third quick update - this Tuesday morning they started spawning (which you can see if you look carefully)...


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Awesome Im getting some off these I think look exactly the same have to get pics when I get em any pics of ur inclosure wouldn't mind the Idea of an outdoor one where do u get them koi things from?


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> Awesome Im getting some off these I think look exactly the same have to get pics when I get em any pics of ur inclosure wouldn't mind the Idea of an outdoor one where do u get them koi things from?


Hi Jay,

What locality are you getting? Post some pics if you can.

Oh and those are not 'koi things'... They are professional Bufo viridis breeding vats 

Cheers
Al


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Alex M said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> What locality are you getting? Post some pics if you can.
> 
> ...


Haha were do u get them professional virdis breeding thingys? Anyways I think there the same as urs they got two types the better type is down as square marked but they don't no anything about toads so could be wrong.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Also how big are the tubs.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

How many species of toad u keep im getting obsessed I got 5 black spined and im getting some bufo virdis this week and maybe bufo asper! Also want some brongersman


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> How many species of toad u keep im getting obsessed I got 5 black spined and im getting some bufo virdis this week and maybe bufo asper! Also want some brongersman


Brongersmai are a fantastic species Jay, as are melanostictus and asper. Watch the asper though, they naturally inhabit pristine streams and when brought into captivity quickly develop sores and lesions (it's amazing how many wholesalers do not grasp this fact :bash - anything other than the cleanest enclosures will not be tolerated long term (moderate ph is ideal but keep it CLEAN). 

Cheers
Al


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