# Horsfield owner, Toby



## Toby Boy

Hi, here for advice on owning a tortoise. We have had Toby for 3 years so he is about 4 and half years old and doing great. Has left home a couple of times but we got him back so all good! They are faster movers than most may think. 
Thanks!


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## SueBoyle

What advice are you looking for exactly? Anything specific? This is my webpage on horsfield tortoises www.tortsmad.com/russians.htm


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## Toby Boy

Hi there thank you for your post. Just general stuff going forward. I'm sure we have been doing OK so far having had him 3 years but who knows what we may encounter in the furure, and here seems a nice place to ask more experienced owners. Thank you for sharing your webpage address I will be sure to check it out. We had a worry today as we usually leave our guy free to roam in the garden, all day at times and he has his usually hiding places, or spots where he knows he can bury himself, but today I found him after a couple of hours on his back and not moving. Weather was mild, thankfully, but he was just still so can't say how long he had fallen over for. He usually can get himself back over but today he couldn't poor thing. I googled it and found out that he may have become dehydrated and signed up here!
Nice to meet you!


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## SueBoyle

If he had been upside down for long he would likely have pooped. He would only dehydrate that quickly if he was in full sun. The smaller they are the quicker they dehydrate and to be honest, out in the garden it’s less likely than indoors under a lamp. Good to see yours is outdoors, table enclosures are no place for anything older than hatchlings, especially horsfields which are essentially a burrowing species, needing deep substrate. Natural habitats and natural feeding (no pellets etc) are the way to go for him to have a long healthy life.


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## Toby Boy

Correct he had pooped, so could have been a little while. 
We try to give him a varied diet but we do hydrate a mix of dandelion pellets along with green leaves. He does eat the random weeds we leave to grow in his enclosure too though. He seems to really like the pellets tbh and he is growing really well. I don't think he is missing anything in his diet but sure I would gladly refine it for the good of his health. 
I do worry it can be too cold sometimes would you say this time of year is still ok outside for a 5 yr old, even during the cold night?
When he buries in the flower bed it can be difficult to find him ha ha, yes he likes to dig!


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Is that him in your avatar?


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## Toby Boy

Yes that is him


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## SueBoyle

Toby Boy said:


> Hi there thank you for your post. Just general stuff going forward. I'm sure we have been doing OK so far having had him 3 years but who knows what we may encounter in the furure, and here seems a nice place to ask more experienced owners. Thank you for sharing your webpage address I will be sure to check it out. We had a worry today as we usually leave our guy free to roam in the garden, all day at times and he has his usually hiding places, or spots where he knows he can bury himself, but today I found him after a couple of hours on his back and not moving. Weather was mild, thankfully, but he was just still so can't say how long he had fallen over for. He usually can get himself back over but today he couldn't poor thing. I googled it and found out that he may have become dehydrated and signed up here!
> Nice to meet you!





Toby Boy said:


> Correct he had pooped, so could have been a little while.
> We try to give him a varied diet but we do hydrate a mix of dandelion pellets along with green leaves. He does eat the random weeds we leave to grow in his enclosure too though. He seems to really like the pellets tbh and he is growing really well. I don't think he is missing anything in his diet but sure I would gladly refine it for the good of his health.
> I do worry it can be too cold sometimes would you say this time of year is still ok outside for a 5 yr old, even during the cold night?
> When he buries in the flower bed it can be difficult to find him ha ha, yes he likes to dig!


i see the avatar now, he’s much bigger than a 4 year old with lots of new growth. This might seem good but they are really meant to grow very slowly, taking 15-20 years to reach adult. I used to breed horsfields years ago, but don’t now as new owners would grow them too fast and end up with poorly and deformed tortoises. I would urge you not to use the pellets as they are far too high in protein and will upset kidneys long term. If you think of the wild where they have to walk a long way to find food and given that they only eat for 4-5 months of the year, we are vastly overfeeding our captive ones. As you say they do like pellets, but that is because they are geared to eat as much as possible in a short time, it’s the way they would eat in nature but for a very short time. I liken it to dogs liking chocolate or human biscuits etc, they don’t know that eventually it will kill them ☹ 
Do be aware that being a burrowing species, they don’t just dig down but disappear for many feet if they want to. My avatar is of a horsfield that popped up in March, over 8ft from his enclosure, meaning that the whole garden boundary had to be changed and reinforced. Just a little food for thought.


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## SueBoyle

I’ve just been down to my local Farm and Pet Place to get wild bird food and found this. I should say I’m shocked but I’m not. I’m wondering how it can be recommended for different species of tortoise when all have different requirements 🤔 Also as fruit is not recommended for any European














species and certainly not Horsfields, how can they go on to recommend more fresh fruit be added. One thing worth noting though is their admission that tortoises might not like to try different foods, showing just how addictive this stuff is. Very sad. The example of the tortoise on the pack is also showing signs of deformity, obviously fed on this rubbish. ☹
I would urge anyone buying a pet shop tortoise not to be lured into buying this and to follow guides for naturalistic feeding.


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## Toby Boy

Hi, certainly happy to develop a more varied weed garden in the outside area we have for him so he can feed himself some of the good stuff. Is there a link you could share for a premix seed you could recommend. This is exactly the type of advice I came here for, appreciate your time and help.

Thank you!
Toby


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## SueBoyle

There used to be an excellent firm called Herbiseed that did a good mix for tortoises to grow, but I think they have closed recently. If you look at sites such as The British Chelonia Group and British Association of Tortoise Keepers they both have a good seed sales section, or at least they did. Once you have an area established, so long as you let some grow to the seeding stage, you won’t have to buy again. When feeding, cut them rather than pull them up and they will come again. I have sewn clover seeds in my lawn years ago and the tortoises keep these down throughout the growing season. My side garden is just mallow, plantain, dandelion, sowthistle, hawkweed, lavatera (for the flowers), hibiscus, campanula, bittercress and evening primrose. When it gets overgrown, the tortoises are let loose in there to keep it under control. Other weeds appear too but I just pull out the ones the torts don’t eat. Most of these seeds are available very cheaply at wildlife seed stores. Avoid most eBay and Amazon seed sellers aimed specifically at tortoises as many are selling unsuitable and sometimes even dangerous mixes. Go for the general ones where you will usually get a better deal too


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## SueBoyle

Looks as though the BATK aren’t doing them now but here is a link to The BCG seed requests. 
There appears to be a lack of decent seed mixes, maybe that’s ‘sown a seed’ in my mind 😊 Back to the drawing board again 🙄


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## LJSW1982

SueBoyle said:


> I’ve just been down to my local Farm and Pet Place to get wild bird food and found this. I should say I’m shocked but I’m not. I’m wondering how it can be recommended for different species of tortoise when all have different requirements 🤔 Also as fruit is not recommended for any European
> View attachment 367204
> View attachment 367205
> species and certainly not Horsfields, how can they go on to recommend more fresh fruit be added. One thing worth noting though is their admission that tortoises might not like to try different foods, showing just how addictive this stuff is. Very sad. The example of the tortoise on the pack is also showing signs of deformity, obviously fed on this rubbish. ☹
> I would urge anyone buying a pet shop tortoise not to be lured into buying this and to follow guides for naturalistic feeding.
> View attachment 367205
> 
> View attachment 367204


I do not agree with feeding pellets to tortoises in lieu of more naturalistic feeding however your point regarding fruit in this product is incorrect, it contains no fruit.


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## SueBoyle

Their advice clearly states to add fruit to the diet.


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## LJSW1982

SueBoyle said:


> Their advice clearly states to add fruit to the diet.


Oh yes, I see in the feeding directions rather than in the ingredients.


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