# is TSS still selling at the mo



## nigels mommy (Oct 6, 2008)

hi, just wondering if anyone has purchased anything of the spidershop this week, i usually phone my order but cant get anyone to pick up and have tried emailing with no response yet. thanks in advance.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

I imagine they will not be answering the phone owing to tabloid journalists wanting to get an exclusive.

I'm sure if they were not trading, there would be a note to that effect on the site.

If Lee still isn't back, Gareth will be run off his feet trying to do everything, so I doubt he'll have time to answer emails.


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## mr ackie123 (Apr 4, 2009)

erm exclusive on what?


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

mr ackie123 said:


> erm exclusive on what?


 

smuggling 1000 spids out the rainforrest mayb? Heh, think smuggler shop has just crushed its reputation. ALTHOUGHHHHHHH it does say WC for most of the T's on the website apart from sling's usually so i cant see how people are actually suprised.


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## perthchickie (Mar 15, 2008)

This message was posted on their facebook page the other day

* Vickie RichardsBarton We thank you all 4 ur lovely messages of support, much appreciated! If u have placed an internet order+havent received an E.mail, we'r not ignoring you! You will be contacted. Regards, [email protected]*


Welcome to Facebook | Facebook


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## invertasnakes (Feb 1, 2009)

mythicdawn07 said:


> smuggling 1000 spids out the rainforrest mayb? Heh, *think smuggler shop has just crushed its reputation.* ALTHOUGHHHHHHH it does say WC for most of the T's on the website apart from sling's usually so i cant see how people are actually suprised.


Personally i think its more Lee's reputation thats been crushed. The SPIDER shop!!! still gives great service to everyone regardless if its selling a T or equipment or even just giving advice.


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## MissyBats (Nov 11, 2009)

I ordered some equip from them and was emailed straight away saying they cant shop till monday, is that fine or did I want a refund, I said no that was fine...
dont think their rep is that crushed, well not for me and those who have given support anyway
x


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## MissyBats (Nov 11, 2009)

invertasnakes said:


> Personally i think its more Lee's reputation thats been crushed. The SPIDER shop!!! still gives great service to everyone regardless if its selling a T or equipment or even just giving advice.


AGREED!
I love these guys... :no1:


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

It appears there are still people on here however that are making assumptions before Lee gives his say.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

And i've ordered off them before and got my order on time and a few very healthy looking spiders so i will buy off them again


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## FreakOonique (Oct 1, 2008)

I love how alot of people are jumping on the bandwagon and dragging TSS name through the dirt as well as Lee's. The media blows things out of proportion and they do like to exaggerate to extremes.

I think considering we havent heard Lee's side, that people should shut the hell up and stop slagging him and TSS off :censor:


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## MissyBats (Nov 11, 2009)

Tamz said:


> I love how alot of people are jumping on the bandwagon and dragging TSS name through the dirt as well as Lee's. The media blows things out of proportion and they do like to exaggerate to extremes.
> 
> I think considering we havent heard Lee's side, that people should shut the hell up and stop slagging him and TSS off :censor:


yup! and its these people that are damaging the rep, by being so judgmental...
I will continue to shop there, it maz take them longer to get about their business but well worth the wait 
if someone doesnt like them then keep the mouth shut and dont buy from them... simples :devil:


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

invertasnakes said:


> Personally i think its more Lee's reputation thats been crushed. The SPIDER shop!!! still gives great service to everyone regardless if its selling a T or equipment or even just giving advice.


 
i agree i was just emphasising on what people think and how naive they must be WC spids have to come from some where and iv said nothing but praise for the spidershop in the past and thats not about the change anytime soon. :2thumb:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

I was under the impression that Lee had been legally exporting spiders from Paraguay, having previously obtained all the necessary paperwork, but due to problems with the plane had been forced to transfer in Brazil. Since some of the species he was carrying occur in both countries this caused issues with Brazil's anti-export laws. Since Brazilian authorities are notorious for arresting first and asking questions later, it is rather easy to see how Lee could get detained while this is sorted out.
With this in mind it is probably pertinent for all those people quick to make accusations of smuggling to step back and apologise, and wait until they know the truth before broadcasting unsubstantiated claims on the net.
Lee's reputation should not be damaged by his actions as it seems he had no underhanded intentions, but was merely the victim of circumstances beyond his control. Sadly, his reputation could be damaged by people fueling the fire of unfounded allegations.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

terciopelo_dave said:


> I was under the impression that Lee had been legally exporting spiders from Paraguay, having previously obtained all the necessary paperwork, but due to problems with the plane had been forced to transfer in Brazil. Since some of the species he was carrying occur in both countries this caused issues with Brazil's anti-export laws. Since Brazilian authorities are notorious for arresting first and asking questions later, it is rather easy to see how Lee could get detained while this is sorted out.
> With this in mind it is probably pertinent for all those people quick to make accusations of smuggling to step back and apologise, and wait until they know the truth before broadcasting unsubstantiated claims on the net.
> Lee's reputation should not be damaged by his actions as it seems he had no underhanded intentions, but was merely the victim of circumstances beyond his control. Sadly, his reputation could be damaged by people fueling the fire of unfounded allegations.


Well another source which for what ever reason some on this forum seem to purposely ignore, seems to state it isn't about the permit really, it's the illegal method of shipping(against IATA)..

This was posted by GRB in the original thread on TSS before it was locked...

Hello all,

The media can be deceiving, however the response that Mark related directly from Lee, is not accurate either (read for yourselves the accurate number taken from the wild, counting those in eggsacs and it is clearer why Lee might have taken such a risk, thousands of entities is accurate). This is no attack on Mark or the BTS and is not to be treated as such, but taken for truth on the matter about an illegal activity carried out in Brazil. The Brazilian authorities are watching this thread with scrutiny (yes, they keep an eye on all the tarantula hobby boards, for obvious reasons) and feel a need to clarify and provide some accuracy on the matter is duely needed. I was asked to relay this from Dr. Rogerio Bertani at Instituto Butantan, Sao Paulo, Brazil, on his behalf.

_"I can tell you the following information from both wildlife authority IBAMA and Museu Nacional researchers, that Lee Arden was caught with TWO BIG suitcases completelly filled with small boxes consisting of multiple cartons and adesive tape. Many spiders had enlarged the holes made in the cartons (of course) and were loose in the suitcases. MANY were dead and many were also with eggsacs. The researchers that received the spiders gave me a call and were both furious and saddened to see so many specimens (900), and eggsacs in so such bad condition. If this man is not a smuggler, what is him then? I read the posts in this link and someone has already said: What about the IATA regulations? And I agree, yes, IF he had permits to import so many spiders, they should have been shipped via air cargo, not carried inside personal luggage that is not suitable or humane for live animals! Sometimes, I import live spider via air cargo when coming in with permits and many from my fieldwork, but I strictly adhere to the IATA regulations! Why were Arden's tarantulas inside two suitcases and inside badly made carton boxes tied with adesive tape, if he had permits? There are specific air transport regulations for transporting live animals. I have seen the official photos of these seized tarantulas and have spoken with the people who have the seized tarantulas and have helped with their identification. If you have any further questions, you may contact me directly at; [email protected] "_

On behalf of Rogerio,
Steve


maybe all the available info should be stickied and it left at that until more evidence comes to light?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

nigels mommy said:


> hi, just wondering if anyone has purchased anything of the spidershop this week, i usually phone my order but cant get anyone to pick up and have tried emailing with no response yet. thanks in advance.


Yes.

I got a message from someone today, to say that they have _diversified _though.....


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## re-action (Mar 26, 2008)

You can all close your eyes to what he has done, that's up to you, I guess as long as you get your spiders it doesn't matter how many die on the way here its all ok then.


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

re-action said:


> You can all close your eyes to what he has done, that's up to you, I guess as long as you get your spiders it doesn't matter how many die on the way here its all ok then.


You've got that one right, some people seem to have their head in the sand:bash:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Give the fella a chance.

That's what you would want for yourself, is it not?


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

I wouldn't expect to have a chance if I'd pull a stunt like that, first time, maybe not.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

bilko said:


> I wouldn't expect to have a chance if I'd pull a stunt like that, first time, maybe not.


All I am saying is that everyone is innocent until* proven* guilty. Lee deserves that much, imo. 

_Has _he been found guilty yet?

If so, do you know what measures were taken against him?

Interesting though.

On another thread, we had people say that they were ambivalent about bug fights, since inverts felt no pain.

Yet people on this thread DO seem to care.

I am confused by this duel logic.

: victory:


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm confused at how thick people are this has nothing to do with WC it is all to do with the IATA regulations broken i mean god people didn't you see the suit case and the Brazilian DR's report jeez wake up. Also Ive read on other forums and here things being said like Ive bought from the spider shop before and never had a prob jeez what the F has that got to do with anything.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Pied Piper said:


> I'm confused at how thick people are this has nothing to do with WC it is *all to do with the IATA regulations broken i mean god people didn't you see the suit case and the Brazilian DR's report jeez wake up. *Also Ive read on other forums and here things being said like Ive bought from the spider shop before and never had a prob jeez what the F has that got to do with anything.


Is it going to court?

Has it gone to court?

What was the outcome?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Pied Piper said:


> Also Ive read on other forums and here things being said like Ive bought from the spider shop before and never had a prob jeez what the F has that got to do with anything.


But to address this part, the answer is 'it has nothing to do with the case'.


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm not sure as we will ever here the truthful outcome tbh.


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

Pied Piper said:


> I'm confused at how thick people are this has nothing to do with WC it is all to do with the IATA regulations broken i mean god people didn't you see the suit case and the Brazilian DR's report jeez wake up. Also Ive read on other forums and here things being said like Ive bought from the spider shop before and never had a prob jeez what the F has that got to do with anything.


Here here, and let's not forget the confiscation and the fine imposed!!! plus I believe he's detained in Brazil, for further investigations on his past activities.:gasp:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> Is it going to court?
> 
> Has it gone to court?
> 
> What was the outcome?


He had 20 days from when he was stopped to gather his case together and pay a part of the fine from what I have read.

The fine is apparently going to be roughly £450,000. Apparently in Brazil a fine is the preferred punishment, a prison sentence looks unlikely. If he pays part of the fine he will be allowed to leave the country and pay the rest at a later date.

(None of this is fact, only what I have read).


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> He had 20 days from when he was stopped to gather his case together and pay a part of the fine from what I have read.
> 
> The fine is apparently going to be roughly £450,000. Apparently in Brazil a fine is the preferred punishment, a prison sentence looks unlikely. If he pays part of the fine he will be allowed to leave the country and pay the rest at a later date.
> 
> (None of this is fact, only what I have read).


 
id rather goto jail then pay half a mill tbf


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

mythicdawn07 said:


> id rather goto jail then pay half a mill tbf


Not a Brazilian jail you wouldn't, just think if you dropped you're soap in the shower:mf_dribble:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

bilko said:


> Here here, and let's not forget the confiscation and the fine imposed!!! plus I believe he's detained in Brazil, *for further investigations* on his past activities.:gasp:


Investigation is not conviction though, would you agree?

Still.

There are worse places he could have been allegedly caught smuggling stuff.

Ever seen Midnight Express!

:gasp:


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## johno the exploder (Mar 23, 2009)

Pied Piper said:


> I'm confused at how thick people are this has nothing to do with WC it is all to do with the IATA regulations broken i mean god people didn't you see the suit case and the Brazilian DR's report jeez wake up. Also Ive read on other forums and here things being said like Ive bought from the spider shop before and never had a prob jeez what the F has that got to do with anything.


 what if he has not broken IATA regulations and what if that was not his suitcase,i found a report on brazzil mag .com which would suggest this,i am not saying this is the truth but i have a feeling due to my experiences with TSS that it probably is,this is a lot the F to do with it as someone who takes such great care to package ts for domestic custgomers is unlikely not to care for packaging when its continental and likely to come under scrutiny from customs and excise.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Ozgi said:


> He had 20 days from when he was stopped to gather his case together and pay a part of the fine from what I have read.
> 
> *The fine is apparently going to be roughly £450,000*. Apparently in Brazil a fine is the preferred punishment, a prison sentence looks unlikely. If he pays part of the fine he will be allowed to leave the country and pay the rest at a later date.
> 
> (None of this is fact, only what I have read).


What if he cannot afford this amount?

Would he go to prison then, do you think?


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

johno the exploder said:


> what if he has not broken IATA regulations and what if that was not his suitcase,i found a report on brazzil mag .com which would suggest this,i am not saying this is the truth but i have a feeling due to my experiences with TSS that it probably is,this is a lot the F to do with it as someone who takes such great care to package ts for domestic custgomers is unlikely not to care for packaging when its continental and likely to come under scrutiny from customs and excise.


I am kinda inclined to agree with you there


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Pied Piper said:


> I'm not sure as we will ever here the truthful outcome tbh.


The 'truth', as far as _I_ am concerned, would be if he is actually convicted of alleged offences. _ If_ he is, then the trith would be he is guilty. If he walks, then he was innocent.

I know this is very simplistic, but it is due process, and it's all we have.

Steve


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

bilko said:


> Not a Brazilian jail you wouldn't, just think if you dropped you're soap in the shower:mf_dribble:


 
for half a mill i would shower there everyday :lol2:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

messengermatt said:


> I am kinda inclined to agree with you there


hmm I suppose, but surely they pulled him over because he's the owner of the suitcase? And...I'm not sure how many others would be putting through suitcases of T's for the same flight as him..


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## johno the exploder (Mar 23, 2009)

joeyboy said:


> hmm I suppose, but surely they pulled him over because he's the owner of the suitcase? And...I'm not sure how many others would be putting through suitcases of T's for the same flight as him..


 in journalism sometimes when they don't have a photo they improvise and use a stock photo,that maybe the case in this instance


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

mythicdawn07 said:


> for half a mill i would shower there everyday :lol2:


Ooooooh, you're so bold.:blush: :lol2:


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## Dan99 (Aug 5, 2009)

bilko said:


> Not a Brazilian jail you wouldn't, just think if you dropped you're soap in the shower:mf_dribble:


:rotfl:That made me laugh !


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

I am sure he would want be in the gang.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Baldpoodle said:


> I am sure he would want be in the gang.


Gary Glitter?

LOL.


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Frankie goes to Brazil


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

johno the exploder said:


> in journalism sometimes when they don't have a photo they improvise and use a stock photo,that maybe the case in this instance


I wasn't talking about any photo, don;t care bout newspapers. I mean the fact is he is being held cos a suitcase(or 2 according to Dr.rogerio) full of T's was found in a luggage scan, so logically he must have been down as the owner to get pulled over.


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## FreakOonique (Oct 1, 2008)

Is this still being dragged on :blah:


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

mythicdawn07 said:


> for half a mill i would shower there everyday :lol2:


I think id do it for free....:lol2:


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## tarantulamatt (Nov 12, 2009)

so do you think it will be shut down i partly think they should do DONT have a go at me because it wrong and they shouldnt do that but i have had lots or really good spiders and equipment even no they still ow me money but what can you do.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

tarantulamatt said:


> so do you think it will be shut down i partly think they should do DONT have a go at me because it wrong and they shouldnt do that but i have had lots or really good spiders and equipment even no they still ow me money but what can you do.


I very much it would be shut down unless Lee wants too. Again we have NOT heard from Lee so we don't have the full story and anyone expecting the Brazilian government being forward is having a laugh. Lee has provided the spider community with excellent service for some time now. We owe it to him to hear him out before making statements that his livelihood should be shut down.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> I very much it would be shut down unless Lee wants too. Again we have NOT heard from Lee so we don't have the full story and anyone expecting the Brazilian government being forward is having a laugh. Lee has provided the spider community with excellent service for some time now. We owe it to him to hear him out before making statements that his livelihood should be shut down.


I think the most important issue here, regardless of whether anything comes of this incident or not, is for the hobby to question more rigorously how WC specimens are shipped over. 

As pointed out before, how many of us with WC spiders have copies of the documentation they were shipped with? I think that if enough of us were to request such items, it would eventually become standard to ship spiders with these copies. Yes, you could argue that they can be easily forged, but for the most part they would be a useful receipt. The paperwork is dull as dishwater but important - if consensus changed, then perhaps a WC spider without such forms would be like a "pedigree" dog without the pedigree tree etc. 

I'm just as guilty as everyone else in assuming that my WC animals were delivered _legally_ - I have to admit I didn't think to question sellers about such things when I ordered.


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## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

those pictures looked staged/fake to me, why would some1 go through so much effort to bring over so many spiders knowing that they might not even be alive by the time they get into this country, doesn't sound like Lee at all, the newspaper bull :censor: and will have you believe that some had escaped... and some where dead they also said he had the Brazilian wondering spider in his case (TSS dont even sell true spiders).... yeh course he did and when i went to America i stole Bin laden and put him in my suit case. TBH he could of been smuggling cocaine for all i care i like the service they provide and i will continue to buy off them regardless. may he be released and get his T's bk.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Kyle T's said:


> TBH he could of been smuggling cocaine for all i care .


Really???


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Lucifus said:


> *I very much it would be shut down unless Lee wants too*. Again we have NOT heard from Lee so we don't have the full story and anyone expecting the Brazilian government being forward is having a laugh. Lee has provided the spider community with excellent service for some time now. We owe it to him to hear him out before making statements that his livelihood should be shut down.


Not sure, even if he is found to be culpable that a UK authority could shut them down, as such. You would need a_ specialist_ lawyer to answer that one, mate. 

However, what _could_ happen (note the word 'could), is that if the fine turns out to be massive, and he does not have the funds to meet the fine in full, then the financials could drive him out of business.

Again, IF he is found to be culpable, then there is also a chance that this would damage their rep so much, that many people would cease to buy from them, and that would impact on TSS, which, in turn, _might _see it unable to trade.

Steve

PS - Just out of interest, why do you automatically assume that the Brazilian 'Goverment' are somehow going to lie? If you afford a man who most of us have never met before the 'innocent until otherwise' stance, which I agree with, isn't it a little contrary to* assume* the Government of Brazil are automatically corrupt?


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## bilko (Oct 22, 2008)

Kyle t, Oh dear, I bet you believe in Father Christmas as well :bash:


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## Kyle T's (Oct 8, 2009)

yeah course i believe in the tooth fairy aswell.. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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