# whats going on is it to cold HELP NEEDED



## living the invert life (Sep 27, 2014)

i have a Brazilian white knee tarantula she is a juvenile ive had her for about a month now it eats well and is exhibiting natural behaviors but just recently she has started spending all her time near the heat mat. i have one mounted on the side of the terrarium with a plant in the corner near it she seems to sit under the plant all day and night she dident do this when i got her. does anyone know what this means is it to cold all of a sudden :gasp:


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## ebmoclab (Nov 21, 2009)

Spiders will thermo-regulate by moving between warmer and cooler areas of their enclosures. as the temperatures are dropping now it maybe that the conditions inside your house are a little cooler than they were in the previous months and she's just moving closer to a more direct heat source.

do you know what the temps are inside her enclosure? warm end, cool end etc.


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

Unless the room is like the antarctic on a cold day then I would remove the heatmat


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

PeterUK said:


> Unless the room is like the antarctic on a cold day then I would remove the heatmat


none of mine will feed in winter without mats, & my house is only modererately cold at night in winter- too cold for a t-shirt, but not freezing.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

wilkinss77 said:


> none of mine will feed in winter without mats, & my house is only modererately cold at night in winter- too cold for a t-shirt, but not freezing.


That's exactly what tarantula do in the wild when temperatures are low, they go into a state of torpor. 
Tarantula will always be attracted to heat. Its worth measuring your heat levels during the day and night and make sure they don't go into the 50s F.


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> none of mine will feed in winter without mats, & my house is only modererately cold at night in winter- too cold for a t-shirt, but not freezing.


A simple thing to sort out . . . dont feed them during the winter months. :2thumb:

EVERY habitat in the world has a seasonal variation in temps, humidity etc EXCEPT in some hobbyists homes where they keep their spiders at constant temp/humidity 24/7/365. . . . and them wonder why their spiders dont eat for months at a time :gasp:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

To be fair the climate of the Brazilian White Knee/A. geniculata is fairly similar rear round, although the rainfall is seasonal. 30-35c rear round during the day, 18-22c during the night. It therefore never gets as cold in this region, which is North Brazil, as it does in the UK.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

PeterUK said:


> A simple thing to sort out . . . dont feed them during the winter months. :2thumb:
> 
> EVERY habitat in the world has a seasonal variation in temps, humidity etc EXCEPT in some hobbyists homes where they keep their spiders at constant temp/humidity 24/7/365. . . . and them wonder why their spiders dont eat for months at a time :gasp:


I've had t's almost starve by not feeding them in winter when they wouldn't eat with the mats off- the only solution was to turn the mats back on, which I now always do in winter.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

PeterUK said:


> Unless the room is like the antarctic on a cold day then I would remove the heatmat


This ^^


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## Red123 (Mar 3, 2010)

I have only kept t's for about a year now but I find how I keep them works well for me. 
All t's tubs are kept in a vivarium which has a thermostatically controlled heat mat running along the back inside. Its kept at 25c with a 3-4 degree drop at night. My house temperature drops into the mid teens during winter which is to cold for them.
Also minimises the risk of accidental knocks of tubs and stops the cat becoming to interested. :2thumb:


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## aide BURR (Jul 1, 2010)

*Heat mats and temps*

I use heat mats on my tanks all year round,with thermostats, 95% of tarantulas 
Like temperatures around 24-26c ,white knees i keep at 24c as i have 50 i am rearing i keep all of them in a heated vivairium heat mat inside on the back,
To be honest i have another 20+ species all sitting at 24.5c .
As the others have said its just regulating its temp,because your room is colder than normal,keep at 24c keep humidity up a bit more than usual as when air is colder outside the tank your heater will dry the substrate quicker than usual, 
Bad if it decides to moult hope this helps


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> This ^^


i disagree, because:



wilkinss77 said:


> none of mine will feed in winter without mats, & my house is only modererately cold at night in winter- too cold for a t-shirt, but not freezing.





Poxicator said:


> That's exactly what tarantula do in the wild when temperatures are low, they go into a state of torpor.
> Tarantula will always be attracted to heat. Its worth measuring your heat levels during the day and night and make sure they don't go into the 50s F.





wilkinss77 said:


> I've had t's almost starve by not feeding them in winter when they wouldn't eat with the mats off- the only solution was to turn the mats back on, which I now always do in winter.


that is why, during mid autumn/winter, i have the mats on. my house only gets moderately cold, but i've still had t's nearly starve to death with the mats off in winter.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

aide BURR said:


> I use heat mats on my tanks all year round,with thermostats, 95% of tarantulas
> Like temperatures around 24-26c ,white knees i keep at 24c as i have 50 i am rearing i keep all of them in a heated vivairium heat mat inside on the back,
> To be honest i have another 20+ species all sitting at 24.5c .
> As the others have said its just regulating its temp,because your room is colder than normal,keep at 24c keep humidity up a bit more than usual as when air is colder outside the tank your heater will dry the substrate quicker than usual,
> Bad if it decides to moult hope this helps


mine are switched off in mid spring/summer/early autumn, but no way will i keep them off in winter, on account of my posts above.


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## aide BURR (Jul 1, 2010)

*Mats*

If a tarantula goes cold it wont eat,become lethargic and die ,my ts eat all year round ,only in premoult do they stop eating and occasionally the odd overfed one stops as long as it's warm and they got water their fine


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

aide BURR said:


> If a tarantula goes cold it wont eat,become lethargic and die ,my ts eat all year round ,only in premoult do they stop eating and occasionally the odd overfed one stops as long as it's warm and they got water their fine


exactly why my mats are on in winter. in summer it's warm enough without them on, & they eat fine.


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## FOREST FLOOR (Nov 3, 2009)

***First off let me say that this is MY opinion and how I choose to keep my own collection, it is not 'having a go at anyone in particular'***

I've always used Heat Mats, 26 years and counting. I switch them off in the summer and keep them on in winter (unless the central heating is on but who can afford that?).

My tanks are on shelves and the heat mat runs along the back, I keep an eye on temps using digital readings. My spiders seems to do pretty well with this set up, feeding & moulting. I have a l parahybana that will be 18 next week, and a b. albopilosa that I got in 1996 still going strong.

It has worked for me for all these years, so I disagree that heat sources should be removed. NONE of my spiders are UK native and would be used to our temps.
I normally find that the people who say that you dont need this and you dont need that are the people that have hundreds of spiders all in ugly and random plastic tubs and the like, those who seem to collect just for the sake of building up a big collection. They spend money on a spider but not always what else is needed.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> i disagree, because:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, I'd read you state that. Do what works best for you and what makes you feel most at ease. I only feed my spiders every couple of months anyway, all through the year. I could stop feeding them next month, start again at the end of Feb, and I am confident none would starve to death. Mine are all in my lounge, it is pretty warm in here most of the time, what with the heating being on, the PC being on etc.

If it got really cold through the night, I would leave one radiator on low.

As long as your thing is working for you.


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## jimmer7 (Jan 19, 2013)

Im new to Ts, as the cooler nights are coming in, I have moved mine to on top of my royals vivs , not right above the ceramics but still quite warm.but no heat mats.


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> but i've still had t's nearly starve to death with the mats off in winter.


Nearly starve to death in a few months of cooler temperature :lol2::lol2:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

PeterUK said:


> Nearly starve to death in a few months of cooler temperature :lol2::lol2:


laughing sn't clever. FYI- my haitian brown starved herself to the point that her abdomen shrank to half the sze of her carapace the winter before last, & her movements became very sluggish. so did my panama blonde & avic peru purple. but they all started eating & filled out within weeks of turning the mats back on in the last weeks of winter.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

Mine are heated all apart from summer. Or if it's been a hot day I'll leave the mats off. My animal room keeps warmish anyway, but not warm enough for me in winter.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> they all started eating & filled out within weeks of turning the mats back on in the last weeks of winter.


 Have you thought about just making your house warmer?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> Have you thought about just making your house warmer?


That would cost more than running a few low wattage mats. & easier to switch the mats on than to bugger about with the central heating.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> That would cost more than running a few low wattage mats. & easier to switch the mats on than to bugger about with the central heating.


 Maybe, but at least everyone(including them) would be warmer. Also, the heat would be more ambient.


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

Mr Mister said:


> Maybe, but at least everyone(including them) would be warmer. Also, the heat would be more ambient.


What a ridiculous statement. If I can get away with heating one room and wear a jumper in the others, then I'm more than happy to save some pennies!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

How presumptuous to assume everyone else is even cold.
Our rep room is always warm due to the heatmats, cables and a little blow heater.
But the rest of the house is much cooler, as I cannot stand to be warm. Anything over 17/18 degrees and I'm roasting.
Our heating doesn't even come on unless it slips below 16... Or I need washing drying:lol2:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

forever_20one said:


> What a ridiculous statement. *If I* can get away with heating one room and wear a jumper in the others, *then I'm* more than happy to save some pennies!


 
Then do that then. No one is stopping you. No one is stopping anyone. What is "ridiculous" is your total emotional reaction to a logical solution to a problem with a cold house - heat it up more.


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

Mr Mister said:


> Then do that then. No one is stopping you. No one is stopping anyone. What is "ridiculous" is your total emotional reaction to a logical solution to a problem with a cold house - heat it up more.


A cold Room. The logical solution is to heat the room, and even more logical is to save money doing so.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> Then do that then. No one is stopping you. No one is stopping anyone. What is "ridiculous" is your total emotional reaction to a logical solution to a problem with a cold house - heat it up more.


No, that's not logical to many, many people I'm afraid. Logic doesn't come in to it... Finances do tho.
For many people it's a choice of heat one room and wear jumpers about the house or get in to huge amounts of debt heating the whole house.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Rach1 said:


> No, that's not logical to many, many people I'm afraid. Logic doesn't come in to it... Finances do tho.
> For many people it's a choice of heat one room and wear jumpers about the house or get in to huge amounts of debt heating the whole house.


or simply use mats in winter to heat the enclosures, as many of us have done for years with great success- I don't get why a few here seem so dead set against this as a perfectly good option.


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## FOREST FLOOR (Nov 3, 2009)

I am a complete tight wad, and I will not put my household heating on until my kids are blue!!!! 

I run heat mats for my animals though, they cost a minimal amount...sod using the central heating, I agree that was a strange statement by Mr mister. 

The OP wasn't talking about heating their house they were just making a comment about a spider staying near a heat mat.. Which by the way, should answer alot of questions on here, as the spider knows best what it prefers and in this case when it has been given a heat source then it has chosen to go near it, surely that means that the spider PREFERS heat, and ergo us who choose to supply heatmats are giving the animals what they prefer!!!


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FOREST FLOOR said:


> I am a complete tight wad, and I will not put my household heating on until my kids are blue!!!!
> 
> I run heat mats for my animals though, they cost a minimal amount...sod using the central heating, I agree that was a strange statement by Mr mister.
> 
> The OP wasn't talking about heating their house they were just making a comment about a spider staying near a heat mat.. Which by the way, should answer alot of questions on here, as the spider knows best what it prefers and in this case when it has been given a heat source then it has chosen to go near it, surely that means that the spider PREFERS heat, and ergo us who choose to supply heatmats are giving the animals what they prefer!!!


exactly.:notworthy:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

forever_20one said:


> A cold Room. The logical solution is to heat the room, and even more logical is to save money doing so.


Sorry. I didn't realise this was a money saving forum for electricity. I thought it was a discussion about the best way to keep temps good for spiders. Heat mats aren't that way. But feel free to wear the jumper and stick those mats on. :2thumb:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

FOREST FLOOR said:


> *I am a complete tight wad, and I will not put my household heating on until my kids are blue!!!!*
> 
> I run heat mats for my animals though, they cost a minimal amount...sod using the central heating, I agree that was a strange statement by Mr mister.
> 
> The OP wasn't talking about heating their house they were just making a comment about a spider staying near a heat mat.. Which by the way, should answer alot of questions on here, as *the spider knows best* what it prefers and in this case when it has been given a heat source then it has chosen to go near it, surely that means that *the spider PREFERS heat, and ergo us who choose to supply heatmats are giving the animals what they prefer*!!!


 That's a shame for them then. Nothing worse than a cold house. 

Spiders are drawn to heat. How amazing is that? That is why the spider was drawn to the heat source. Sometimes they will do it and "cook" themselves. You project human thinking onto spiders. How strange.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

For all Pete and I care, you can try keep your T's warm by eating curry powder and blowing on them. Do what you like, we don't really care. The idea that the spider goes to the warm spot therefore it it is deploying conscious choice is frankly a joke. The spider doesn't know any better than to be drawn to the heat, it is not sitting there working out a risk analysis plan. 






Aside from the fact that it is a really poor way to heat the set up's(probably the least effective), the reason why these fell from popularity was little things like them bursting into flames, melting vivs and so on. It will cost you more than a “few pennies” if such a thing happens to you. 




Another excellent reason are the cases of it harming the spider(the same spider that must be “know what is right for itself”).


Here is someone with no clue at all just making stuff up for no reasons at all;




*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgszxXWcz4w*


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

I don't use mats, just heat the room if needed. Like anyone with half a braincell would. I've been keeping them long enough to understand their needs.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

forever_20one said:


> *I don't use mats, just heat the room if needed. *Like anyone with half a braincell would. I've been keeping them long enough to understand their needs.


Which is what I do.

What's the problem then?


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

I heat my spiders with heatmats on the backs of their enclosures.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> Aside from the fact that it is a really poor way to heat the set up's(probably the least effective), the reason why these fell from popularity
> since when? loads of keepers still use them- probably the majority.
> 
> 
> ...


above, in red.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> above, in red.


You may never have heard of it happening. But it has. I guess if you look around on Google you will find first hand reports. I have read and seen first hand accounts of heat mats bursting into flames, melting, or causing fires. They are cheap and unreliable and often poorly made. They also do not offer a good ambient heat.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

"Worryingly more and more people are importing cheap Chinese printed element heat mats in to the uk that are not double insulated. These are dangerous for you and your reptiles and are illegal to sell. Do not support these sellers who value making some quick money over safety. Please be aware that not all printed heat mats are made in China, however all unbranded mats are."

Is the heat mat you're using safe?? | Team Reptiles



"As a few people on here may be aware we had a major fire at our shop just before christmas, on the 19th December. The fire resulted in a total loss, including the lives of all the reptiles and fish in the shop.










We have recently had the results back from the forensics investigation and they believe it was started by a faulty heat mat. This was a relatively new mat (about 2 months), only 11w, made by a reputable UK manufacturer, and was properly statted on a pulse stat."


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/933574-shop-fire-heat-mat-warning.html


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## aide BURR (Jul 1, 2010)

*Heat mat fires*

In 20 years of having hairs flicked at me ive never had a mat go up in flames,but there again i dont buy (cheapest on ebay)and i also check all wires, plugs,every 6months or so for wear and tear .and i renew mats
Every 3-4years,i also do this for my thermostats as if they go down they can stop mat working, cold spid,or keep your mat on TOASTED spid,or fire,and its all coverd with surge protection as i dont want to take any chances as there in my house :whistling2:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

aide BURR said:


> In 20 years of having hairs flicked at me ive never had a mat go up in flames,but there again i dont buy (cheapest on ebay)and i also check all wires, plugs,every 6months or so for wear and tear .and i renew mats
> Every 3-4years,i also do this for my thermostats as if they go down they can stop mat working, cold spid,or keep your mat on TOASTED spid,or fire,and its all coverd with surge protection as i dont want to take any chances as there in my house :whistling2:


:notworthy: it's common sense isn't it- you'd have thought, that is. i only buy habistat mats, & i've never had one fail. & i've had some of mine for more than 10 years.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I would have thought the answer to this would be obvious depending on what species you keep, their origin and the normal temperatures they experience. 

If they experience <15C each winter then go for it. If they live somewhere that never gets colder than 20C then why would you chill them beneath this? I don't really get how there is more than one reply to this thread, because this stuff is the real basics. 

Seriously, it worries me when people buy tarantulas without having a quick google as to their natural range and a check on weather underground as to the normal temperature and moisture cycles. Not only is this an obvious thing to do, it also saves a lot of hassle if you buy species from similar climates as then you don't need to try to re-create 50 microhabitats in one room. 

As someone said earlier, too many folk buying too many spiders without thinking beforehand. You should be able to tell where a species occurs, the typical temperature range cycle and the annual rainfall. If you can't do that, then stop buying more species until you can. Some species will be more tolerant of variation than others too - if you can't replicate the conditions within reason then don't buy, it's pretty simple.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> That is why the spider was drawn to the heat source. Sometimes they will do it and "cook" themselves. You project human thinking onto spiders. How strange.


This is rubbish, as I've explained many a time before. Spiders are more than capable of detecting heat and will not cook themselves. This would only happen if the temps in the (small) enclosure were too high everywhere, and the digging is a last ditch escape response. 

In simple terms, in any environment with a thermal gradient this won't happen.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

GRB said:


> I would have thought the answer to this would be obvious depending on what species you keep, their origin and the normal temperatures they experience.
> 
> If they experience <15C each winter then go for it. If they live somewhere that never gets colder than 20C then why would you chill them beneath this? I don't really get how there is more than one reply to this thread, because this stuff is the real basics.
> 
> ...


what i don't get is the number of posts here & elsewhere, suggesting ALL t's are ok in any but the coldest rooms, without any further heating.



GRB said:


> This is rubbish, as I've explained many a time before. Spiders are more than capable of detecting heat and will not cook themselves. This would only happen if the temps in the (small) enclosure were too high everywhere, and the digging is a last ditch escape response.
> 
> In simple terms, in any environment with a thermal gradient this won't happen.


well said. also, not buying dodgy, el cheapo crappo mats from ebay instead of reliable leading brands would help to not cook the t.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

aide BURR said:


> In 20 years of having hairs flicked at me *ive never had a mat go up in flames*,but there again i dont buy (cheapest on ebay)and i also check all wires, plugs,every 6months or so for wear and tear .and i renew mats
> Every 3-4years,i also do this for my thermostats as if they go down they can stop mat working, cold spid,or keep your mat on TOASTED spid,or fire,and its all coverd with surge protection as i dont want to take any chances as there in my house :whistling2:


 
That is good and fortunate...for _you_. However, others have not been so fortunate, as any amount of research will show you. And why take the risk? I would suggest people turn off electrical appliances at night, short of the freezer etc. You could plug a phone charger in with no phone, and do it 100 times. House may not burn down. However, I wouldn't suggest doing it, because it has happened, they have been a cause of house fires.

Heat mats are poorly made and relatively cheap. People may think it "saves them a few pennies" v proper ambient heat, but it will take more than a few pennies if that heat mat lets them down just the once.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

GRB said:


> *This is rubbish,* as I've explained many a time before. Spiders are more than capable of detecting heat and will not cook themselves. This would only happen if the temps in the (small) enclosure were too high everywhere, and the digging is a last ditch escape response.
> 
> In simple terms, in any environment with a thermal gradient this won't happen.


 And yet it has happened.

So, apparently it is "not rubbish". Just something you have never experienced.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> well said. also, not buying dodgy, el cheapo crappo mats from ebay instead of reliable* leading brands* would help to not cook the t.


Yup, because as we all know, leading brands and corporations are beacons of virtue.

Which "leading brands"?

This person seems to think he had used a "leading brand".



"As a few people on here may be aware we had a major fire at our shop just before christmas, on the 19th December. The fire resulted in a total loss, including the lives of all the reptiles and fish in the shop.










We have recently had the results back from the forensics investigation and they believe it was started by a faulty heat mat. *This was a relatively new mat (about 2 months), only 11w, made by a reputable UK manufacturer, and was properly statted on a pulse stat."*


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

GRB said:


> I would have thought the answer to this would be obvious depending on what species you keep, their origin and the normal temperatures they experience.
> .


 Over complicating it. As a rule of thumb, if your heating is on to the degree that you are very comfortable walking around in a t shirt and shorts, then this would be broadly suitable for all types of species, NW, OW, terrestrial, arboreal etc etc.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> And yet it has happened.
> 
> So, apparently it is "not rubbish". Just something you have never experienced.





Mr Mister said:


> Yup, because as we all know, leading brands and corporations are beacons of virtue.
> 
> Which "leading brands"?
> 
> ...


if they were as dangerous as you suggest, no one would use them- but thousands do, for snakes, lizards, & phibs, as well as t's & other inverts, without any danger. anything electrical can be dangerous if it develops a fault, but does that mean we should stop using anything electrical? no, because the risk is minimal unless you use crap products.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> *if they were as dangerous as you suggest, no one would use them- but thousands do*, for snakes, lizards, & phibs, as well as t's & other inverts, without any danger. anything electrical can be dangerous if it develops a fault, but does that mean we should stop using anything electrical? no, because the risk is minimal unless you use crap products.


 Logical fallacy. By your rationale, lots of people smoke, therefore smoking acts like super vitamins. Otherwise people just wouldn't buy them...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> Logical fallacy. By your rationale, lots of people smoke, therefore smoking acts like super vitamins. Otherwise people just wouldn't buy them...


that's just bullpoop. everyone knows how dangerous smoking is. the vast majority will say that heat mats are not. more people on this thread have said they use mats, than those who don't. not everyone can afford to keep an entire room warm all year, and even boilers can blow up. heat mats are not dangerous, any more than any other electrical device.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Like I said though Wilkins, since you are clearly happy to stick with the old fashioned “heat mat” method, that's cool. It's your business. If you are comfortable doing it that way, then great 


No one is doubting you try your best or anything. I am merely pointing out the fact(and it is a fact), that when it comes to T's(remember, we are speaking about T's here), that the best way to keep temp's ambient and close to what they like is _not_ with a heat mat. Doesn't mean to say that people like you won't use them and find it fine. It just means what it means – it is not the best or most effective way. It may be better in the sense that the person perceives it will save them money on heating bills, however, this must be balanced against most effective + most safe.




I used to use them myself, it's not like I am hard core about it or anything. I used to use them then decided against it for the stated reasons. Things move on, times change. Once upon a time people though vermiculite was tops for a substrate. Then they changed their minds.


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## Pogonaviti (Jan 21, 2014)

If you don't have icicles on your Windowsill then I'd throw the heat mat personally. 
I've had a few T's and when I was younger and my dad had them we were told that they HAD to be heated, no matter what (bearing in mind the first T we got was a Chile rose, yeah because Chile is a warm place all year round *facepalm*) and the results of a heated enclosure meant the t couldn't escape the heat and was actually far more aggressive than when the heat was off. 

I go by the t-shirt method for all t's I've got. They seem perfectly ok with temperatures that I'm comfortable with and they all eat and moult fine so I've no issue not heating them. 

I don't think people would stay in a house uncomfortably cold so the idea of heating a T enclosure to me is a little strange. 

Each to there own and everything, and yes people keep T's "successfully" in different ways but until tarantulas can form coherent sentences in English and can tell us how they prefer to be kept whilst in our homes then I guess we will all have to agree to disagree and just enjoy watching our little 8 legged hairy monsters of joy.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> And yet it has happened.
> So, apparently it is "not rubbish". Just something you have never experienced.


Source? 



Mr Mister said:


> Over complicating it. As a rule of thumb, if your heating is on to the degree that you are very comfortable walking around in a t shirt and shorts, then this would be broadly suitable for all types of species, NW, OW, terrestrial, arboreal etc etc.


That rule of thumb will generally work, but there's not point being slapdash about it then wondering "why species x won't breed" or why they didn't live as long as everyone else's. I prefer to aim a little higher than the bottom rung of acceptable husbandry.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

GRB said:


> Source?
> 
> 
> 
> That rule of thumb will generally work, but there's not point being slapdash about it then wondering "why species x won't breed" or why they didn't live as long as everyone else's. I prefer to aim a little higher than the bottom rung of acceptable husbandry.


with the exception of one chile rose (porteri) which is never heated, all of my t's are central or tropical south american, or carribean. therefore the mats go on in winter- i don't get all this 'unless the room reaches arctic temps, they won't need heat', when mexico, central america/carribean islands/tropical south america never or rarely experience such low temps. ditto tropical africa/asia.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

GRB said:


> Source?
> 
> 
> 
> That rule of thumb will generally work, but there's not point being slapdash about it then wondering *"why species x won't breed"* or why they didn't live as long as everyone else's. I prefer to aim a little higher than the bottom rung of acceptable husbandry.


 
Source what??? 

And who mentioned breeding? Not one single person on this entire thread has mentioned breeding, apart from yourself and right now. 

You do love your strawmen and off point remarks. We weren't speaking about breeding conditions. We were speaking about the most effective way to create ambient heat for T's. That way simply_ isn't_ by taping heat mats onto tanks.

Sorry.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> with the exception of one chile rose (porteri) which is never heated, all of my t's are central or tropical south american, or carribean. therefore the mats go on in winter- *i don't get all this 'unless the room reaches arctic temps, they won't need heat',* when mexico, central america/carribean islands/tropical south america never or rarely experience such low temps. ditto tropical africa/asia.


 

The reason _you_ don't "get it" is that you are being too literal . People do not literally mean "arctic temps". It is really simple to grasp. Your house simply isn't warm enough in the winter. That is all there is to it. If it were warm enough in winter, then you would not need these heat mats. 

If it were warm enough, you would not have apparently had instances of spiders "near starving to death". 


I definitely know this to be true, since I do not use heat mats and my spiders do not starve to death. There is no magic mystery. It is simply because my house is warmer. Why is it warmer? Because, during the winter, I put my heating on more often. This gives the dual benefit of keeping me warm and keeping all my spiders warm.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

GRB said:


> I prefer to aim a little higher than the bottom rung of acceptable husbandry.


 Well done.

So do the likes of Pete and I. That is why we totally reject heat mats as being the best means of keeping T's warm in the winter. But you would already know this, what with you being an expert on stuff.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Heat rises, so taping one to the side of the tank is pretty useless. All you are doing is warming the side of the tank- which only ever makes sense if it's arboreal and actually on the side that is warmed. Plus, heat mats do melt (themselves and the tank equally).



Also, nowhere on earth that I can think of that has exactly the same temperature 24/7/365. Which is exactly many people do when using a heatmat, they keep the mat on all year without any seasonal variations allowed.

By not using a heatmat the spider(s) will experience a slight but definite seasonal change in temperatures which is much more natural and by allowing the spider to cool down during the winter months will also endow it with a longer life.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Well done.
> 
> So do the likes of Pete and I. That is why we totally reject heat mats as being the best means of keeping T's warm in the winter. But you would already know this, what with you being an expert on stuff.


Hmm... pot & kettle spring to mind..


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## Madeyes (Mar 1, 2014)

My 2 cents (pennies) as a noob (under a year)... All these heat and humidity arguments really give a man a headache... 

If I had one T I'd use a heat mat during the winter (with stat) with an enclosure that would allow the T to roam enough to move where it wants.

If I had a fair number I'd use a moderately heated cabinet (glass door), using a heat cable in the winter (with stat or stats if large) and make sure the cabinet had some depth so again I can use enclosures that would allow the T to roam enough to move where it wants.

If I had hundreds of Ts and other inverts I'd heat a room (with stats) or a shed (shed is my dream). I'd keep the room moderately warm/hot and place Ts depending on the average temps of a species in different parts of the room and "ATTEMPT" to adjust the min and max temps 4 times a year. Maybe even partition the room off in to smaller rooms for better management.

With slings I just make sure they're warm and not in any danger of getting over heated in any form, rather them be cooler than dried out or cooked.

Thing is I'll never be able to replicate a habitat or the seasons, because all my Ts live in tub/vivs or whatever, all I can do is keep them moderately warm, fed and watered. Over time (talking YEARS) I guess you learn on what suits "your" Tarantulas and listen to "all" opinions from those who's spent YEARS keeping Ts. I also guess that Taratulas or other inverts will adapt to survive but we should all look to find a man made environment that allows your collection to thrive and breed.

I own all the noob species, brachy's, grammo's, the famous LP and A.genic's - All seem alive still (at the moment).


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> Hmm... pot & kettle spring to mind..


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


 ^^^ good one...:censor:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> ^^^ good one...:censor:


 Why are you getting all emotional and angry, Martin? 

Everyone else has contributed at least something to the discussion, how about trying that? I know it sounds a bit out there and everything.


For example(this is really easy to answer), do you think heat mats are or are not the best possible way to create ambient heat for a T, during the winter months? You see. A reasonable and on point question, so calm down, breathe deeply, and maybe answer that?



:lol:


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

Whether you heat the tank, the room, the whole house or not depends on the T and where it comes from like has already been mentioned. So if your T comes from a place that rarely sees a drop below 16 you should aim to recreate that. Just because a T might live without heat doesnt mean you should make it.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Basin79 said:


> Whether you heat the tank, the room, the whole house or not depends on the T and where it comes from like has already been mentioned. So if your T comes from a place that rarely sees a drop below 16 you should aim to recreate that. *Just because a T might live without heat doesnt mean you should make it*.


I definitely would not suggest doing that. Did anyone suggest that? Not sure, but I have definitely never suggested that at all. What I have proposed is that _the most effective method to create a nice ambient heat_ for spiders is not achieved by way of heat mats. There are several methods one could use, but in plain and simple terms, the heat mat would be the very least effective.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

Mr Mister said:


> I definitely would not suggest doing that. Did anyone suggest that? Not sure, but I have definitely never suggested that at all. What I have proposed is that _the most effective method to create a nice ambient heat_ for spiders is not achieved by way of heat mats. There are several methods one could use, but in plain and simple terms, the heat mat would be the very least effective.


I wasn't accusing anyone of saying that. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. And heatmats work great in my case. My animal room is warm anyway, so in the colder months a heat mat just boosts the temps up enough.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Basin79 said:


> I wasn't accusing anyone of saying that. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. And heatmats work great in my case. My animal room is warm anyway, so in the colder months a heat mat just boosts the temps up enough.


 Cool, I was just making clear that my suggestion wasn't to freeze the poor little sods, but to establish the best method of heating them.


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## Pogonaviti (Jan 21, 2014)

wilkinss77 said:


> with the exception of one chile rose (porteri) which is never heated, all of my t's are central or tropical south american, or carribean. therefore the mats go on in winter- i don't get all this 'unless the room reaches arctic temps, they won't need heat', when mexico, central america/carribean islands/tropical south america never or rarely experience such low temps. ditto tropical africa/asia.


Regarding the heat and icicles comment; generally, if your house is warm then spiders are fine (that we must all agree on) so if it's cold then they need heating up (hence the heat mat) 
The icicles comment is just 'reductio ad absurdum'. 
If they're all moulting and eating fine and have no deformities ect then generally we can't be doing a bad job. 

You could throw it two ways. Additional Heat COULD (now I'm not saying it's a definite) result in an increased appetite and a more active spider. 
It could also stress them out and cause them to become far more aggressive/agitated. 

I personally don't heat my T's individually as my room is warm and they seem to be fine as they are. I wouldn't want to risk something happening if the heat mat melted or shorted and a fire was to occur. I also wouldn't want a thermostat to short and the spiders to overheat which could be potentially fatal. 



I do know however that this debate is about as common as the substrate debate for beardies. And neither will reach any kind of result any time soon. 

A lot of people say "if it ain't broke don't fix it" so however that applies to you (heat mat or not) then just carry on as your doing. 

It's clear that people care for the spiders if they're getting so involved and passionate about the care of them so best intentions all round should be recognised.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Mr Mister said:


> Source what???


The source for your comment stating that heat mats have cooked tarantulas. 



> And who mentioned breeding? Not one single person on this entire thread has mentioned breeding, apart from yourself and right now.
> 
> You do love your strawmen and off point remarks. We weren't speaking about breeding conditions. We were speaking about the most effective way to create ambient heat for T's. That way simply isn't by taping heat mats onto tanks.
> 
> Sorry.



The original comment I replied to was asking about temperature and whether it was too cold, etc. 

In addition, breeding is absolutely relevant as a measure of quality of husbandry - a stressed animal will not breed. It was also just an example to illustrate a point of what people tend to complain about without first checking their husbandry. 

I did laugh when you berated someone else for being too literal right afterwards.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Why are you getting all emotional and angry, Martin?
> 
> Everyone else has contributed at least something to the discussion, how about trying that? I know it sounds a bit out there and everything.
> 
> ...


 I'm neither emotional nor angry, I just happen to think your a numpty is all,


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

GRB said:


> The source for your comment stating that heat mats have cooked tarantulas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Cooked is probably an emotive term. However, there is no question at all that heat mats have damaged spiders, caused fires, and damaged enclosures. I fully understand that _you_ may not have ever heard of this happening, but as amazing as they may sound, things do happen that you are not aware of. Do you think I have archived all the times I have read of this, and do you think I recorded all personal testimonies, just so that one day I could give a "source" to you, on the internet? :lol:

Do you deny that they can be a fire hazard? Never mind "other appliances", do you accept or deny that heat mats taped to plastic tanks(esp plastic), can and are a fire hazard? Do you accept that if they malfunction and the tank gets warped that this would damage the spider? These are simple enough concepts to grasp, simple enough questions for you to address. If you do not deny they are a hazard, then what is it you are arguing against, or are you just blowing bubbles for the sake of it? 

Do you accept that heat mats do not create a good ambient heat? Would you concur that T's appreciate a good ambient heat, rather than a one spot heat? You seem to believe you are some fine example of husbandry, so I would be truly interested to hear your actual on point answers.

We are not speaking about breeding conditions, if you want to start a thread devoted to breeding issues, then that is cool. Do that. If it is interesting, those seeking to breed will join in. However, since you mention it, heat mats are not a good heat source, whether your intentions are to breed or not. Would you accept or deny that?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> I'm neither emotional nor angry, I just happen to think your a numpty is all,


Aw, Martin, my wickle feelings are all hurt now that you are name calling.

Any contribution to the topic yet..?

*Checks*

No.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> I'm neither emotional nor angry, I just happen to think *your a numpty* is all,


It's "you're a numpty".


:mrgreen:

You're welcome.


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## Pogonaviti (Jan 21, 2014)

Oh, another point, the breeding thing. 

Yeah, tarantula breeders do actually cool tarantulas down to temperatures that we wouldn't normally keep them at to help to promote breeding behaviours in the following spring. So whilst temperatures are a very important factor here, its not all about heating them.


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## Pogonaviti (Jan 21, 2014)

I apologise if this can't be posted, but if it can then here it is: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/Temperature.html

A read of this should clear up a lot of the issues on this thread. 


If it does get removed I'd be happy to pm people said link if they wish.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> It's "you're a numpty".
> 
> 
> :mrgreen:
> ...


 So You're a numpty...........either way works for me.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> So You're a numpty...........either way works for me.


Martin, why would I care if a total stranger thinks another total stranger is a "total numpty", especially when one of them cannot even spell? 

This is your fourth post on this thread. When are you going to say something on point and pertaining to heat sources, mats, etc..?

That would be superb.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Martin, why would I care if a total stranger thinks another total stranger is a "total numpty", especially when one of them cannot even spell?
> 
> This is your fourth post on this thread. When are you going to say something on point and pertaining to heat sources, mats, etc..?
> 
> That would be superb.


 Theses no reason you should care ( I don't ) 

I'm not..:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> Theses no reason you should care ( I don't )
> 
> I'm not..:Na_Na_Na_Na:


 Aye okay, Martin.

You're ace.


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