# Idolomantis Diabolica arrives - let the challenge begin!



## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

So the little nymph has finally made his journey through the post, and I'm ready to take on raising it to adult!
Anyone else who ordered the ones I posted in a previous thread , did you think that they were a little underpackaged?
Mine was in a bubblewrap envelope , on it's side in a photo film tube , and no heatpack 

current housing - ceramic lamp with 60W heatlamp , 35 degrees
currently keeping him in a plastic pint cup , need to order some very fine mesh to keep the fruit flies in.

I'll get pics up as soon as I can , if only I had macrojunkies camera :2thumb:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

what instar?


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> what instar?


I'm pretty sure its L1 , I remember you said it would be better to send at L2 in another thread


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Cool, nice one. These are probably next on my list. 1st instar though! That's tiny!


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> Cool, nice one. These are probably next on my list. 1st instar though! That's tiny!


I thin theres still some on ebay if you want one , I would ask the seller to package them better though , and with a heat mat.
I think it's a female, and dear god it loves to jump - you'd think it was a cricket


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

utterbeastage said:


> I thin theres still some on ebay if you want one , I would ask the seller to package them better though , and with a heat mat.
> I think it's a female, and dear god it loves to jump - you'd think it was a cricket


I've told myself I'm going to wait before I get any more and concentrate on the ones I have already, lol. Don't know how long that's going to last though!


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> I've told myself I'm going to wait before I get any more and concentrate on the ones I have already, lol. Don't know how long that's going to last though!


good call . this is only my 6th , more to come :2thumb:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

utterbeastage said:


> good call . this is only my 6th , more to come :2thumb:


Lol, I've stopped at 10 for now. Can't see it staying at that for long though. What are your other 2? You only have 4 in your sig.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> Lol, I've stopped at 10 for now. Can't see it staying at that for long though. What are your other 2? You only have 4 in your sig.


ahh I previously had phyllocrania paradoxa and pseudocreobotra wahlbergii , but they are now up in the giant sweetie jar in the sky


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> Cool, nice one. These are probably next on my list. 1st instar though! That's tiny!


 this species is pretty big tbh at 1st instar..about the same size as a 2nd instar giant asian.

i love the change from 1st instar to 2nd
1st





















2nd




















3rd instar


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

utterbeastage said:


> ahh I previously had phyllocrania paradoxa and pseudocreobotra wahlbergii , but they are now up in the giant sweetie jar in the sky


Ah I see! Giant sweetie jar! lol.



macro junkie said:


> this species is pretty big tbh at 1st instar..about the same size as a 2nd instar giant asian.
> 
> i love the change from 1st instar to 2nd


Ah ok. I'd love to get some species at 1st instar, they undergo such a big change after their first shed, it's amazing!


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Doesn't this species need a full mesh setup?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Lucifus said:


> Doesn't this species need a full mesh setup?


 not at 1st and 2nd instar..there happy in 1pint cups with netting on top and elestic band.


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## andy123 (Oct 23, 2008)

whats the typical name they are called?


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Devils Flower Mantis


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## andy123 (Oct 23, 2008)

cool:flrt::2thumb:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> Devils Flower Mantis


 wrong..idolomantis is called The giant devil flowermantis.This is why people like to use scientific names..

Blepharopsis mendica - Devils flowermantis


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> wrong..idolomantis is called The giant devil flowermantis.This is why people like to use scientific names..
> 
> Blepharopsis mendica - Devils flowermantis


easily confused without the word 'giant' haha
the L1 nymphs are also pretty fearless , my L2 peacock nymphs are sometimes weary of bigger fruit flies but the little Idolomantis is striking left right and center


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> wrong..idolomantis is called The giant devil flowermantis.This is why people like to use scientific names..
> 
> Blepharopsis mendica - Devils flowermantis


Lol, no wonder there is so much confusion! I have heard idolomantis called Devil's flower and Giant Devil's Flower. 
I also thought that Blepharopsis mendica was called the Thistle Mantis.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> Lol, no wonder there is so much confusion! I have heard idolomantis called Devil's flower and Giant Devil's Flower.
> I also thought that Blepharopsis mendica was called the Thistle Mantis.


I *THINK* I have it right.

Idolomantis Diabolica : Giant Devil's Flower Mantis
blepharopsis mendica : Devil's Flower Mantis / Thistle Mantis


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> I also thought that Blepharopsis mendica was called the Thistle Mantis.


 it is..hahahahah..its so stupid.i know its easier to pick up and remember the common names but it dont half confuse things.Thats another species that can be housed together and does great with the same conditions as the idolos.idolos are much more impressive tho.:flrt:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

utterbeastage said:


> easily confused without the word 'giant' haha
> the L1 nymphs are also pretty fearless , my L2 peacock nymphs are sometimes weary of bigger fruit flies but the little Idolomantis is striking left right and center


 yer..as they grow they get very interesting..1 of the keys to keeping thm healthy is having a constant supply of blue bottles fed on honey..When this species gets big it can eat alot of blue bottles..and because maggots take 10-13 days to hatch it can sometimes leave you short if your not careful.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> yer..as they grow they get very interesting..1 of the keys to keeping thm healthy is having a constant supply of blue bottles fed on honey..When this species gets big it can eat alot of blue bottles..and because maggots take 10-13 days to hatch it can sometimes leave you short if your not careful.



Yeah I know what you mean , I know you mentioned that the bluebottle culture idea would be quite difficult because of the enclosure size needed but I think I'm going to give it a go , maybe keep it in the shed.

dog food here I come.

and if that fails then I'll have to buy in cultures and try to keep them going
did you get my pm MJ?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

utterbeastage said:


> did you get my pm MJ?


aye

i had 5 pint cup cups..with damp tissue at bottom and netting and elestic band as a lid..i then hung the light about 1.5 foot away from them..just make sure its not so close that there going to be burning..rember..in a 1 pint cup they cant move to different parts of the cage to cool down if there to hot..so make sure its ok ie u can put your hand on top of the lid and its not burning your hand,.remember to give them at least 11 hours dark period..temps can drop to 70f at night with no problems.i dont like the idea of a heat mat tho.

all i use is 2 cheap bed side lamps u buy from argos which take screw in bulbs..i then buy packs of 10 40watt,60watts and 100watt bulbs.just the normal house hold screw in bulbs..no need to buy these expensive bulbs from the reptile shops.waste of money.


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Good luck with the bluebottles, I have enough trouble getting them to hatch out when I buy them from the fishing shop.

I leave the maggots in a tub with some vermiculite to soak up any moisture. But they keep getting damp and smelly!! This means the flies come out all deformed and don't live very long. The hatch rate is probably about 20%, lol.

They smell bad enough as it is, I can't imagine how bad it would be if you added dog food into the mix! lol.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> Good luck with the bluebottles, I have enough trouble getting them to hatch out when I buy them from the fishing shop.
> 
> I leave the maggots in a tub with some vermiculite to soak up any moisture. But they keep getting damp and smelly!! This means the flies come out all deformed and don't live very long. The hatch rate is probably about 20%, lol.
> 
> They smell bad enough as it is, I can't imagine how bad it would be if you added dog food into the mix! lol.


haha I mangaed to hatch out about 70% of my casters but made a poor medium , so they only lasted a week , had about 30 flies tops.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> aye
> 
> i had 5 pint cup cups..with damp tissue at bottom and netting and elestic band as a lid..i then hung the light about 1.5 foot away from them..just make sure its not so close that there going to be burning..rember..in a 1 pint cup they cant move to different parts of the cage to cool down if there to hot..so make sure its ok ie u can put your hand on top of the lid and its not burning your hand,.remember to give them at least 11 hours dark period..temps can drop to 70f at night with no problems.i dont like the idea of a heat mat tho.
> 
> all i use is 2 cheap bed side lamps u buy from argos which take screw in bulbs..i then buy packs of 10 40watt,60watts and 100watt bulbs.just the normal house hold screw in bulbs..no need to buy these expensive bulbs from the reptile shops.waste of money.


I've dont that , measured the temperature outside and in the container, do you find that you can leave your heat lamp on for 12hours+ without any problems ?
thats all I need to know really , thanks :2thumb:


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## Rabymar (Feb 19, 2009)

Ozgi said:


> Good luck with the bluebottles, I have enough trouble getting them to hatch out when I buy them from the fishing shop.
> 
> I leave the maggots in a tub with some vermiculite to soak up any moisture. But they keep getting damp and smelly!! This means the flies come out all deformed and don't live very long. The hatch rate is probably about 20%, lol.
> 
> They smell bad enough as it is, I can't imagine how bad it would be if you added dog food into the mix! lol.


You still have probs. hatching bluebottles lol...


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

ooo youre lucky! Id love one (or five) of these but am so scared ill kill it. lol 
One day though...


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## Rabymar (Feb 19, 2009)

He he i am not brave enough to try these yet either lol.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> Good luck with the bluebottles, I have enough trouble getting them to hatch out when I buy them from the fishing shop.
> 
> I leave the maggots in a tub with some vermiculite to soak up any moisture. But they keep getting damp and smelly!! This means the flies come out all deformed and don't live very long. The hatch rate is probably about 20%, lol.
> 
> They smell bad enough as it is, I can't imagine how bad it would be if you added dog food into the mix! lol.


 this is what i do..they dont smell and get 100% hatching in about 13 days

i bring the maggots home from the shop which are in a plastic sealed bag..the important thing is to get them out of the bag a.s.ap..theres no ventilation in the bag..so they sweat..and when maggots sweat you get that nasty ammonia smell.i take them out and put them in a bait box which you can buy form the fishing shop..

or some times i just put 30 maggots or so in a plastic tub which i culture my fruit flies in(2pintcups) with netting and elastic band over top..i dont put any thing in the bottom..

all u need is a a dry tu with lots of ventilation...i then add the dry maggots which havent sweated..and put the netting and elastic band on as a lid so they can breath which also stops them smelling..


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

many great mantis breeders have tried culturing blue bottles and have failed..from what i gather its not as easy as culturing fruit flies..id stick to buying them from the fishing shop..grose..massive maggots and dog food..lol..and stinking casters as there going to be hatching in with the food ect as i take it u wont be taken the maggots out?rather you than me.. :whistling2:


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> many great mantis breeders have tried culturing blue bottles and have failed..from what i gather its not as easy as culturing fruit flies..id stick to buying them from the fishing shop..grose..massive maggots and dog food..lol..and stinking casters as there going to be hatching in with the food ect as i take it u wont be taken the maggots out?rather you than me.. :whistling2:


god help me scott.
Ive changed my mind though , stick to buying 'em
it's really good value for money anyway


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> this is what i do..they dont smell and get 100% hatching in about 13 days
> 
> i bring the maggots home from the shop which are in a plastic sealed bag..the important thing is to get them out of the bag a.s.ap..theres no ventilation in the bag..so they sweat..and when maggots sweat you get that nasty ammonia smell.i take them out and put them in a bait box which you can buy form the fishing shop..
> 
> ...


Ok cool, I'll give that a go. It's pretty much what I've been doing, except I didn't put netting over the top, I just had a lid with some air holes in, think that's why they got smelly. Cheers :2thumb:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> I just had a lid with some air holes in, think that's why they got smelly. Cheers :2thumb:


 yer it could well be..let me know if it stops that grose smell..is that the rankest smell in the world or what?:lol2:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

utterbeastage said:


> god help me scott.
> Ive changed my mind though , stick to buying 'em
> it's really good value for money anyway


 2.75£ gives m 1 pint of maggots that feeds alot of mantids.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> yer it could well be..let me know if it stops that grose smell..is that the rankest smell in the world or what?:lol2:


possibly the worst smell ever , like sweat , but it burns your nose haha :lol2:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> yer it could well be..let me know if it stops that grose smell..is that the rankest smell in the world or what?:lol2:


It's awful, there's no way of describing it but it gets right up your nose and to the back of the throat.

I should be used to it as I used to go fishing all the time, but I'm sure it's worse now. lol.

I wanna keep them out in the garage, but then they take ages to hatch as it's cool out there, so I'm stuck with having them in the house. Although it's getting warmer now so I'm gonna stick them out there, lol.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

i dug this image out for u..when i was housing my 1st instar idolos in single pots..i raised them like this up to about 3rd instar


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> i dug this image out for u..when i was housing my 1st instar idolos in single pots..i raised them like this up to about 3rd instar


My setup is pretty much the double of that , so as long as Im dong the same as you Ill be on the rigt path to an adult Idolo:2thumb:


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

The Idolo is just about to moult to L4 , so excited , these things mature extremely fast compared to the rest of my mantids.


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## andie (Sep 23, 2007)

They grow at a tremedous rate, i think some of mine were moulting in as liitle as 8 - 9 days between the early instars and my first moulted to adult within 4 months, not bad going, gongys are a bit faster growing though...


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

andie said:


> They grow at a tremedous rate, i think some of mine were moulting in as liitle as 8 - 9 days between the early instars and my first moulted to adult within 4 months, not bad going, gongys are a bit faster growing though...


Nice one , I've not caught my Idolo moulting yet, but I reckon its going to happen in the next few days, If I can get it to adult I might even try my hand at breeding - early days yet though.
any idea if anybody is selling any?
there were 5 on ebay but the bid was for all of them together


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## andie (Sep 23, 2007)

I started with 13 and got roughly 50% to adult, my problem was that i lost a few at the sub adult stage due to them going weak before the moult and not having the strength to hold themselves up. they died mid moult to adult or just before. No idea why this happened but this only happened to mine out of the current bunch of sibblings so something i was doing wrong perhaps. 
I keep mine on our landing and i have theory that it may have something to do with someone spraying perfume. :whistling2: 

I gave an adult male to a breeder who was short and kept 2 adult males and 1 female. Ive seen them mounting each other but ive not witnessed them join, so perhaps they have, fingers crossed anyway.
At the moment i know of a couple british breeders who have managed to mate their 1st generation nymphs so this hopefully will be brilliant news for the hobby as more captive bred specimens will have been bred and we wont have to rely on imported specimens which are the only ones likely to be avialable at the moment or at least for a few months.
Things are looking up.


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

andie said:


> I started with 13 and got roughly 50% to adult, my problem was that i lost a few at the sub adult stage due to them going weak before the moult and not having the strength to hold themselves up. they died mid moult to adult or just before. No idea why this happened but this only happened to mine out of the current bunch of sibblings so something i was doing wrong perhaps.
> I keep mine on our landing and i have theory that it may have something to do with someone spraying perfume. :whistling2:
> 
> I gave an adult male to a breeder who was short and kept 2 adult males and 1 female. Ive seen them mounting each other but ive not witnessed them join, so perhaps they have, fingers crossed anyway.
> ...


that's good to hear , means they wont be as hard to find as they have been in the past few months, I suppose you have a better chance of breeding them if you keep them communallly all the time, only bad thing is that you wont be ale to provide a distraction for the female all the time when they join:lol2:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

2 of my adult females,1 have been adult about 2 weeks..and the other about 5 days or so...i see 1 of the males is ready to shed in the next couple weeks so the timing should be ok.i got them all housed together..2 adult females..1 subadult female..2 subadult males..i do have a big cage tho(2ftX1ft) and i always have flies in the cage.

tbh at the size they are i cant afford to be splitting them up in to another cage which would mean another spot lamp.im risking mine..but im pretty sure there going to be fine..will see currently got
2 subadult males
1 subadult female
2 adult females which are so pretty:gasp:


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> 2 of my adult females,1 have been adult about 2 weeks..and the other about 5 days or so...i see 1 of the males is ready to shed in the next couple weeks so the timing should be ok.i got them all housed together..2 adult females..1 subadult female..2 subadult males..i do have a big cage tho(2ftX1ft) and i always have flies in the cage.
> 
> tbh at the size they are i cant afford to be splitting them up in to another cage which would mean another spot lamp.im risking mine..but im pretty sure there going to be fine..will see currently got
> 2 subadult males
> ...


Nice one , If I can raise this one well then I think I'll go for multiple Idolos at once, how in the name of god do you keep up with bluebottles?
I've been using an inverted bottle trap full of olf catfood and I'm catching about 10 bluebottles a day but in the winter months the bait shop is all I can rely on:lol2:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

utterbeastage said:


> Nice one , If I can raise this one well then I think I'll go for multiple Idolos at once, how in the name of god do you keep up with bluebottles?
> :lol2:


 imagine having 100 mantids and all u feed them is blue bottles?you got to time your shit well or your end up being lost..having to try and catch them in the wild or begging off the forum..buy half a pint of maggots every 10 days thats should time it enough.they take 10 days to hatch ish..so your have flies al the time..hatching every 10 days.,dont do what i done..buy 1 pint and leave them all in a bait box..they went damp,smelly..the casters stuck together..it was a nightmare..

2 bait boxes..14/pint of maggots per box is perfect.no sweating then,


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## andie (Sep 23, 2007)

As far as feeding them, be advised that they can consume vast ammounts of blue bottles so buying maggots is your only real option if you have a few idolo's.
I kept all mine communaly and only one got damaged by another this was probably caused by two of them going for the same fly. But saying that you cant consider any mantis to be communal. Some are just more tolerant than others and are just as likely to eat each other.

Scott your males are going to be the perfect age for mating but you should seperate the sexes into different rooms if possible as the males will get used to the females pheromones, perhaps ignoring them. Mine only attempted to mate on their first meeting after that theyve shown little or no interest in each other despite the female constanly calling. Best of luck with them though m8


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## utterbeastage (Apr 4, 2009)

macro junkie said:


> imagine having 100 mantids and all u feed them is blue bottles?you got to time your shit well or your end up being lost..having to try and catch them in the wild or begging off the forum..buy half a pint of maggots every 10 days thats should time it enough.they take 10 days to hatch ish..so your have flies al the time..hatching every 10 days.,dont do what i done..buy 1 pint and leave them all in a bait box..they went damp,smelly..the casters stuck together..it was a nightmare..
> 
> 2 bait boxes..14/pint of maggots per box is perfect.no sweating then,


I reckon I can manage enough for one adult Idolo , with this weather we're having Im catching about 10 or more bluebottles a day with a flytrap, I dont think I'd ever beg on the forums though:lol2:
*EDIT* much does half a pint cost you MJ? I ony get £2.50 tubs


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

andie said:


> Scott your males are going to be the perfect age for mating but you should seperate the sexes into different rooms if possible as the males will get used to the females pheromones, perhaps ignoring them.


when do u think its best to do that?before the males hit adult or just after?


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## princessrosie79 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hiya where did you get the cute little fella from I would love one and not sure where to buy them, could you let me know asap plz


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## Ben.M (Mar 2, 2008)

Have a look on eBay, not cheap though.


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## princessrosie79 (Feb 6, 2012)

*devils flower*



Ben.M said:


> Have a look on eBay, not cheap though.


 Just purchased and sent seller message asking to make sure little fella arrives safe. Thanks for quick reply Ben


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