# Double Rex Rat



## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

pics of my powder blue? double rex buck baby :flrt:


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

he is lovely  
he has very weird colouring on his skin, looks like a saddle....:flrt:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Aww bless!!


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## devilsofdarkness (Mar 26, 2006)

omg! he is gorgeous!! me can have yeah??? lol
im sure he settle right in with my lot!! lol


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Gorgeous!!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Very cute:flrt:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

My Billietoo form Sami has those markings.

On another forum, rat one, I was told that she 'must' have a skin complaint.
Well if she has she still has it and it's not bothering her because her skin is hte same now.
She looks like a 'reverse banded' hamster!!!!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

saxon said:


> My Billietoo form Sami has those markings.
> 
> On another forum, rat one, I was told that she 'must' have a skin complaint.
> Well if she has she still has it and it's not bothering her because her skin is hte same now.
> She looks like a 'reverse banded' hamster!!!!


Ah yes but the majority on there think breeding nakeds is inhumane and cruel, and that of course they can't live a long healthy life...:roll: 

p.s I think what you've done for Caroline and Sian is wonderful.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Aah yes I remember her, having looked at her old thread, I dont see anyone telling you she "must" have a skin complaint - it was mentionned as a possible (by me, then also was suggested it might just be the area she can groom most easily).

But it was worked out she couldn't be marked as she has black feet. Her black face is caused by having some hair there. If she had some hair elsewhere it'd probably be black too. No marked in her lines was there? 

Ps I also think what you did for Sian was very kind!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Katiexx said:


> Ah yes but the majority on there think breeding nakeds is inhumane and cruel, and that of course they can't live a long healthy life...:roll:
> 
> p.s I think what you've done for Caroline and Sian is wonderful.


Some do, that's true. But mostly because the people who breed hairless are usually not breeding for health and temperament (ie. rodent farms make a killing out of hairless).

I only know of one breeder breeding specifically for them, and even those lines come from pet shop rats I think. Until they've been outcrossed and cared for over many generations, I think most hairless will be sickly, small and have temperament issues. I know mine do.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Aye there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders around, be it with nakeds or coated rats. To be honest I think the only way things would improve for the nakeds in general is to have the NFRS allow them at shows and endorse certain breeders. I know that probably sounds nuts, but then it stops being an underground problem so to speak and people will actively work on the health of the rats. Like your friend seems to be doing.

That being said I don't think a breeder has to be reigstered with the NFRS to make them a good breeder. Wasn't trying to say that.

Eee trust me to go off on a random tangent that probably doesn't make any sense :lol2: It is a very cute baby btw Claire.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> Some do, that's true. But mostly because the people who breed hairless are usually not breeding for health and temperament (ie. rodent farms make a killing out of hairless).
> 
> I only know of one breeder breeding specifically for them, and even those lines come from pet shop rats I think. Until they've been outcrossed and cared for over many generations, I think most hairless will be sickly, small and have temperament issues. I know mine do.


I know saxon is working really hard on outcrossing so she gets bigger kits and is doing really well shes an example to everyone who breeds.

I have just taken up breeding double rex and hairless my friend nagged me to I gave in and said I would 

Saxon shes gorgeous and see what you mean about her been like a reverse banded!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Katiexx said:


> That being said I don't think a breeder has to be reigstered with the NFRS to make them a good breeder. Wasn't trying to say that.


I think that it's a good thing to do if you are a breeder, but there's breeders on the list I wouldn't get rats from, some even sell to pet shops. Luckily they're in the minority (and when I say minority, I mean literally one or two).

I think personally that I would still recommend the NFRS breeders list to people, as there are far more "bad" breeders off the list than are on it. Most "bad" breeders aren't registered with any club, as they have no intentions of showing. However I think showing (or at least attending) is important for healthy rats, as you can get an eye for "type", which is size, head, eyes, ears etc - all things that need to be good for healthy rats. Eg. I rarely show my rats in varieties, as so far - I've not bred any rats that are good enough colour wise for show. However their temperaments and health are great, so will probably do well in pet class. I'd take much more pride in a pet class win than a varieties one - but different breeders have different agendas. Mine's to make nice big healthy cuddly pets!

So the NFRS (or other rat club) list is a good starting point, then you weedle out the good from the bad by asking questions and meeting them, or going to see their set ups 

And what's good to some, might be bad to others. Some might have excellent markings but crap temperaments. Some might have great temperaments, but not very good type. If you're looking for a pet, variety isn't going to be important. Etc.

Lordy, I hope I'm making sense, wittering on a bit :blush:


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Katiexx said:


> Aye there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders around, be it with nakeds or coated rats. To be honest I think the only way things would improve for the nakeds in general is to have the NFRS allow them at shows and endorse certain breeders. I know that probably sounds nuts, but then it stops being an underground problem so to speak and people will actively work on the health of the rats. Like your friend seems to be doing.


I would be very disappointed if this happened. I know some people like these rats (and I love all rats despite their looks), but they are currently just a fad, and in some people's eyes a mutation that is detrimental to the rats. Next you would get people saying "Well MY tailless rat copes fine so there's nothing wrong with that, so we'll breed them for £25 each", etc etc. 

I won't put my personal beliefs about hairless rats here as I wouldn't want to offend, I just wouldn't want people thinking the NFRS had anything other than the welfare of the rats in mind by not allowing them in their shows. I get the impression it's entirely based on the physical and health hurdles faced by the rats not only in homes but more so at shows. Even if I was the biggest advocate of hairless rats I wouldn't show them, even in pet.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> I would be very disappointed if this happened. I know some people like these rats (and I love all rats despite their looks), but they are currently just a fad, and in some people's eyes a mutation that is detrimental to the rats. Next you would get people saying "Well MY tailless rat copes fine so there's nothing wrong with that, so we'll breed them for £25 each", etc etc.
> 
> I won't put my personal beliefs about hairless rats here as I wouldn't want to offend, I just wouldn't want people thinking the NFRS had anything other than the welfare of the rats in mind by not allowing them in their shows. I get the impression it's entirely based on the physical and health hurdles faced by the rats not only in homes but more so at shows. Even if I was the biggest advocate of hairless rats I wouldn't show them, even in pet.


 
Just curious really why are they just a fad. Sphynx cats have no hair neither do skinny pigs or some breeds of dogs, they arent fads so why should naked rats be?? It is only now that Sphynx are allowed on the show bench but they are and they are here to stay. Hairless animals are like marmite you either love em or hate em. Personally I love em and as long as breeders breed for health and tempermant I dont see any problem with them. Long live the nakeds:2thumb:


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> Just curious really why are they just a fad. Sphynx cats have no hair neither do skinny pigs or some breeds of dogs, they arent fads so why should naked rats be?? It is only now that Sphynx are allowed on the show bench but they are and they are here to stay. Hairless animals are like marmite you either love em or hate em. Personally I love em and as long as breeders breed for health and tempermant I dont see any problem with them. Long live the nakeds:2thumb:


was going to say the same thing Naked rats have been around a while now think it was first seen in labs in the 50's or 60's could be wrong though.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

There are safety (for the rats) implications for showing naked rats though - they just aren't as hardy as others *at shows* with a fur coat, no matter which of these hurdles can be overcome at home. I remain completely unconvinced that selectively breeding for health will solve these issues as the main issue is that they don't have hair lol.

I think it would be a sad day for showing when the health of the rats at a show came secondary to a fashion that is relatively short-lived and currently sold into by less than ethical breeding and selling practices on the whole (not everyone, but mostly). I am all for decent breeders seeking to change this phenomena by breeding for health and temperament, but even then they should be kept off the show bench for their own good. It really has nothing to do with me not liking them - I don't really go in for some other varieties that don't have those issues, and wouldn't want them off the show bench just because I don't like them. It's about their health and safety, so one could say I'm singing from their hymnsheet despite thinking as I do about them.

ETA: Should add I'm only commenting on the showing not breeding of them.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If they are like other hairless animals their skin has a higher temperature than normal coated animals which helps combat the cold. If the shows are indoor I dont actually see a problem. My house isnt hot yet I have a very happy Sphynx running round completely starkers LOL


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Well, I suppose if anyone feels strongly about breeding show quality, big, healthy hairless, working out the genetics and writing a standard and then replicating that standard in their rats (or 3 or 4 standards considering few of these rats seem to come out the same and there are several different genes responsible), then getting that standard/those standards passed by a committee and convincing them that showing hairless is completely safe in cold and hot weather, then they should go for it lol. As someone working on two new varieties at the minute (one of which isn't massively supported either in the fancy but not for health reasons) I wouldn't personally recommend it lol.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Shell,

I'm nutty about everything naked as well. If I could afford one I'd have a shpinx cat but I can't so I have my rats and mice!!!!

I am breeding my hairless rats, not charging money making amounts either, to see if in another few years we cant' produce hairless that are of better quality. I personally dont' have any nasty temperaments in my hairless.

My original hairless weren't from a pethsop although I suppose their ancestors may have been but then again most of the varieties were at some time from a lab/petshop rat somewhere down the line!!!! Depends how far back you want to go!!!!


I must be a glutton for punishment because I breed RB satin rex as well so got grief for that last year!!!
I also have a tailess rat who copes great...He is a mummy chew tailess not a baby born tailess.

You can show hairless at YRC shows but I think it's just a fun class really.

As for breeders it's obvious there are more unscrupulous breeders 'not' on the NFRS list than on it!!!!
Not everyone chooses to be a member and if they are not a member then they cannot be on the list. 
There are thousands of rat breeders out there who are not members of the NFRS.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> But it was worked out she couldn't be marked as she has black feet. Her black face is caused by having some hair there. If she had some hair elsewhere it'd probably be black too. No marked in her lines was there?
> 
> Ps I also think what you did for Sian was very kind!


 
Only siamese as far as I know but I'd have to ask Sami for further down the line.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

saxon said:


> You can show hairless at YRC shows but I think it's just a fun class really.


Actually you cant - it was a one off, most members voted against it at the AGM. I'm a not so closet fan of hairless, and I voted against it. 

As for the NFRS, all the good breeders I know are on that list. Along with some bad ones, sure, but I cant name one person not on the list that I'd recommend for pet, show or breeding quality rats.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

saxon said:


> Shell,
> 
> I'm nutty about everything naked as well. If I could afford one I'd have a shpinx cat but I can't so I have my rats and mice!!!!
> 
> ...


Just wanted to clarify that I'm not giving anyone grief for breeding hairless rats, least of all anyone seeking to improve them and their quality of life. I'm not a fan and probably won't ever be, but my comments were only on the NFRS's reasons for not allowing them at shows, not on my personal feelings on them. Whether a breeder wants to be on the NFRS list or not is not relevant to that, they are still the leading authority on _showing_ rats in this country. I fully agree that there are most likely some good breeders that aren't members of the NFRS, that was not my point and I really hope my post didn't come across as that. I was only talking about the showing of physically challenged varieties such as hairless and tailless - these are the only varieties not allowed to participate at NFRS shows (nor are they permitted to be shown with other clubs as far as I'm aware although some clubs will allow them to be shoulder rats). 

For the record I also have a tailless rat here that cropped up in another breeder's line as a one off. She doesn't struggle at home because it is not a stressful environment and I can control any aspects of the environment needed to keep her comfortable. I do not and would never take her to a show for various reasons, the main one being I love her and don't wish her any harm. I can't guarantee her environment to be safe for her specifically at shows, so I wouldn't risk it, and I wouldn't promote it for others either. A good example of how my feelings on showing hairless and/or tailless are not down on personal preference but on their wellbeing. :2thumb:


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

I love my hairless rat, shes amazing wouldnt cahnge her for the world , Was bred by Dawn .

I must say they look rather strange with markings lol


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> I love my hairless rat, shes amazing wouldnt cahnge her for the world , Was bred by Dawn .
> 
> I must say they look rather strange with markings lol


Sphynx are the same the skin is patterned the same as if they had fur.
Saxon well done on trying to better naked rats, I actually think they are gorgeous:flrt:but then arent all breeds of rats


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