# aph heating



## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

hi, getting a baby aph in a few weeks time. i'm keeping her in a viv. i was just wondered whether it would be best to heat with a mat and stat, or a bulb and stat? was just abit worried that with a heat mat on wood shavings, she could burn her feet. and if i put something over the heat mat that it wouldn't heat it as well. plus, with the bulb we would be able to see her better. and input would be most helpful.

thanks


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't heat them....unless your house is bloody freezing, they don't need it.:lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> I don't heat them....unless your house is bloody freezing, they don't need it.:lol2:


ive been told, and learnt fro a lot of research that they need to be at 80 degrees or else they hibernate, and that can be fatal. 
and they are from africa, where it's very hot, so i would of thought they would need heat anyway?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> ive been told, and learnt fro a lot of research that they need to be at 80 degrees or else they hibernate, and that can be fatal.
> and they are from africa, where it's very hot, so i would of thought they would need heat anyway?


S'not true.....I have kept them more than happily at room temperature for a few winters now, with no hibernation...fatal or otherwise! In fact, they have even produced litters without heating during the winter months.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

They are not china dolls, but mammals with hair and the ability to regulate their own body temperature. There are _many_ other african mammals that don't require heating through winter.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> I don't heat them....unless your house is bloody freezing, they don't need it.:lol2:


 I dont heat mine either as already said unless your house is very cold you dont need too! My room doesnt get below 21-22c anyway.


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## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

I unfortunately have to disagree.. 

I would totally recommend that you have a statted heat mat/or alternative source of heat for your hogs. I have 18 hogs, and although most of them dont require extra heat, I have a couple of older girls whom I do give heat mats too. I had a couple of my hogs attempt to hibernate last Christmas, and since then, I have invested in an oil filled radiator to heat the animal room- statted on a timer to come on during the early hours of the morning, and have since not had any problems. Though that said, a few weeks ago before I had put the heater on, one of my little albino girls escaped her viv, ended up in the animal room cupboard, and attempted to hibernate. So I am a firm believer in extra heat for my hogs !! 

Your house may be really warm, in which case that is fine, but I have to say I dont think myhouse is overly cold either- but I even found that having my vivs on the wall that faces the outside of the building has an affect.. as when moved the vivs to back onto an interior wall, my hogs much prefered it. 

I guess it all comes down to how warm your house really is !! 

I would go heat mat statted to be honest. And dont worry about it burning her feet, as you will have the mat statted so it wont be at a burning temperature, just a nice cosy temp should she require it. A baby at this time of the year I would have a mat in with to be safe.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Also, I reckon your bulb idea is not too good.....considering it's a nocturnal animal, and would NEVER happily leave the nest in daylight hours of it's own free will, then having a bloody great light shining on it could only serve to kind of stress it out.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> Also, I reckon your bulb idea is not too good.....considering it's a nocturnal animal, and would NEVER happily leave the nest in daylight hours of it's own free will, then having a bloody great light shining on it could only serve to kind of stress it out.


 I agree a ceramic bulb on a Pulse stat would be a much better idea!


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

slimeysnail said:


> I guess it all comes down to how warm your house really is !!


Well, I keep my house at a steady 19-20 degrees and never had a problem. Maybe the ones that have problems during winter are the ones that get unnecessarily pampered throughout the year.....the type 2 hog owner :lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> Also, I reckon your bulb idea is not too good.....considering it's a nocturnal animal, and would NEVER happily leave the nest in daylight hours of it's own free will, then having a bloody great light shining on it could only serve to kind of stress it out.


infa red lighting... they can't see it. i know their nocturnal, i'm not stupid. i didnt say for definate that i was going to use lighting, i was asking if it was a good idea.


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

slimeysnail said:


> I unfortunately have to disagree..
> 
> I would totally recommend that you have a statted heat mat/or alternative source of heat for your hogs. I have 18 hogs, and although most of them dont require extra heat, I have a couple of older girls whom I do give heat mats too. I had a couple of my hogs attempt to hibernate last Christmas, and since then, I have invested in an oil filled radiator to heat the animal room- statted on a timer to come on during the early hours of the morning, and have since not had any problems. Though that said, a few weeks ago before I had put the heater on, one of my little albino girls escaped her viv, ended up in the animal room cupboard, and attempted to hibernate. So I am a firm believer in extra heat for my hogs !!
> 
> ...


 
thankyou so much. this was the answer i was looking for. and, like i replied to someone previously, i was worried about hibernating, so thankyou for confirming my worries and offering a solution. i hope your hogs were all okay afterwards. and i will use a mat and stat, was just worried about her burning her feet! but now i'l know not to worry


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> thankyou so much. *this was the answer i was looking for.* and, like i replied to someone previously, i was worried about hibernating, so thankyou for confirming my worries and offering a solution. i hope your hogs were all okay afterwards. and i will use a mat and stat, was just worried about her burning her feet! but now i'l know not to worry


So basically, you just wanted someone to back up what you said....not actually hear ideas and opinions from others that have kept them very successfully without all these unnecessary trimmings? How very open minded of you!:whistling2:

And as for "infra-red bulb"....if you mean a bulb that is red...also a no-no as they probably could see that. Ceramic wouldn't bother them, but would still be unnecessary.


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> So basically, you just wanted someone to back up what you said....not actually hear ideas and opinions from others that have kept them very successfully without all these unnecessary trimmings? How very open minded of you!:whistling2:
> 
> And as for "infra-red bulb"....if you mean a bulb that is red...also a no-no as they probably could see that. Ceramic wouldn't bother them, but would still be unnecessary.


i was asking which source of heat to use, as every breeder ive asked has said they use heat. i just wasnt sure which one was best.

and as for being 'open minded' i want whats best for the hoglet. i started this thread to see if a heat mat or bulb was best. 

i asked for what source of heat to use, not no heat at all. you dont use heat fair enough, your choice, but as that person with 18 hoglets said he uses heat because his hibernated, something i was bothered about.

a pygmy hedgehog is from africa, so is a royal python. you wouldnt keep the royal with no heat, regardless if it's a reptile or a mammal, against british weather theres a considerable amount of difference.

if you don't like my decision to use heat, dont comment. this thread was all about heat, not lack of.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> i was asking which source of heat to use, as every breeder ive asked has said they use heat. i just wasnt sure which one was best.
> Well I breed without heat....again, not really necessary
> 
> and as for being 'open minded' i want whats best for the hoglet.Heating is not necessarily "best" i started this thread to see if a heat mat or bulb was best.
> ...


This is a public forum, and if I choose to comment that heat is not necessary with this species, then I'm perfectly within my right to do so....whether you like it or not!:bash:


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## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> Well, I keep my house at a steady 19-20 degrees and never had a problem. Maybe the ones that have problems during winter are the ones that get unnecessarily pampered throughout the year.....the type 2 hog owner :lol2:


Not quite sure what you meant by type 2 hog owner.. I would be interested to hear what a type 1 owner is.. if you think fleecy blankets and a heat source is unnecessary lol. I love my hogs to bits, so yep, possibly I do pamper them, but isnt that why you have pets lol- to spoil them!? I wouldnt have it any other way !! 



G3ck0 said:


> thankyou so much. this was the answer i was looking for. and, like i replied to someone previously, i was worried about hibernating, so thankyou for confirming my worries and offering a solution. i hope your hogs were all okay afterwards. and i will use a mat and stat, was just worried about her burning her feet! but now i'l know not to worry


Your welcome. Yes my hogs were fine, unfortunately just one of those things- damn unpredictable Scottish weather !! Like I say, I learnt from it last winter, and the oil filled radiator keeping the room warm particularly in the early hours has sorted things out. Im not sure if you have ever got up at 3am and walked round the house (any house I would assume) and of course the temperature would be cold, so I think heat source is the way to go, because it is at night and the early hours that hogs are most active !! 



mrcriss said:


> So basically, you just wanted someone to back up what you said....not actually hear ideas and opinions from others that have kept them very successfully without all these unnecessary trimmings? How very open minded of you!:whistling2:
> 
> And as for "infra-red bulb"....if you mean a bulb that is red...also a no-no as they probably could see that. Ceramic wouldn't bother them, but would still be unnecessary.


I am sure that the OP was looking for advice and opinions from anyone and their experiences. Thats all I am offering. I am not saying my ways of keeping my hogs are THE only way to do things, definitely not.. and what works for me, might not work for others. But I dont think there is any point in jumping on the thread and almost having a go at the OP for just asking a question !! I do agree with regards to the ceramic being a better option than the bulbs that emit light, but again.. heat mat or ceramic, I DO feel would be a good idea incase. 



G3ck0 said:


> i was asking which source of heat to use, as every breeder ive asked has said they use heat. i just wasnt sure which one was best.
> 
> and as for being 'open minded' i want whats best for the hoglet. i started this thread to see if a heat mat or bulb was best.
> 
> ...



 I agree !!


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

slimeysnail said:


> Not quite sure what you meant by type 2 hog owner.. I would be interested to hear what a type 1 owner is.. if you think fleecy blankets and a heat source is unnecessary lol. I love my hogs to bits, so yep, possibly I do pamper them, but isnt that why you have pets lol- to spoil them!? I wouldnt have it any other way !!
> 
> 
> !


To find out what I mean by type 1, 2 and 3 hog owners, I refer you to the 2nd page of this other thread::lol2:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/exotic-mammals/765726-hedgehogs-cages-vivariums-2.html


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> This is a public forum, and if I choose to comment that heat is not necessary with this species, then I'm perfectly within my right to do so....whether you like it or not!:bash:


like i have stated before, i didn't mention anything to do with not having heat as i want what is best for my hedgehog, if you think it's not needed then you go do that... but i asked for which heat! get that into your head and stop commenting on my thread. i have read your opinion and i don't want to use it. END OF! you've said what you wanted to say and i'm not going to listen to you as i and many other people think no heat is dangerous for them... i will listen to other people and will do it the way everyone but you have said, its better to be on the safe side  thanks though....


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> like i have stated before, i didn't mention anything to do with not having heat as i want what is best for my hedgehog, if you think it's not needed then you go do that... but i asked for which heat! get that into your head and stop commenting on my thread. i have read your opinion and i don't want to use it. END OF! you've said what you wanted to say and i'm not going to listen to you as i and many other people think no heat is dangerous for them... i will listen to other people and will do it the way everyone but you have said  thanks though....


As I've said before...what makes you think that heat is "*best* for your hedgehog"? I'm certainly not the only one the doesn't use it....just that the type 2 owners are far more vocal on here! (by type 2, I mean the kind of deranged people that treat them like babies)

And you say "stop commenting on my thread"? I hate to have to tell you this again....it's not *your* thread! It's a *PUBLIC* forum! 

END OF!:lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> As I've said before...what makes you think that heat is "*best* for your hedgehog"? I'm certainly not the only one the doesn't use it....just that the type 2 owners are far more vocal on here! (by type 2, I mean the kind of deranged people that treat them like babies)
> 
> And you say "stop commenting on my thread"? I hate to have to tell you this again....it's not *your* thread! It's a *PUBLIC* forum!
> 
> END OF!:lol2:


it may be a public forum, BUT I CREATED THE THREAD. 

what type are you? because you seem pretty vocal.

i think its '*best*' because EVERY caresheet i have read (and it's alot. i like to be prepared) has said to use heat. ive read up on illnesses and hibernation, and all hibernation incidents have occured because of lack of heat. and most have been fatal. ive not even got the hoglet yet, but ive wanted one for years, and i don't want to mess up and kill her. i live in blackpool, the weather is unpredictable, and even though we have a mass of reptiles in the room, i will measure the temp in the viv, but i wouldnt think it would be warm enough. i'd rather heat the viv for my own piece of mind than it be too cold and her get ill. 

if i want to use heat i will, you dont fair enough, but stop trying to shove your way down my throat! shes my hoglet, i will do it my way.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> it may be a public forum, BUT I CREATED THE THREAD.
> 
> what type are you? because you seem pretty vocal.
> 
> i think its '*best*' because EVERY caresheet i have read (and it's alot. i like to be prepared) has said to use heat. ive read up on illnesses and hibernation, and all hibernation incidents have occured because of lack of heat. and most have been fatal. ive not even got the hoglet yet, but ive wanted one for years, and i don't want to mess up and kill her. i live in blackpool, the weather is unpredictable, and even though we have a mass of reptiles in the room, i will measure the temp in the viv, but i wouldnt think it would be warm enough. i'd rather heat the viv for my own piece of mind than it be too cold and her get ill.


I'm very much a type 1.....they have the same treatment at my house as would any other small mammal....but I'm not a scary type 3 because I'm in no way elitist!

And mate, whether you "created" the thread or not, it matters not one whit.....if you didn't want others to comment, then keep your questions and queries to private messaging.:lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> I'm very much a type 1.....they have the same treatment at my house as would any other small mammal....but I'm not a scary type 3 because I'm in no way elitist!
> 
> And mate, whether you "created" the thread or not, it matters not one whit.....if you didn't want others to comment, then keep your questions and queries to private messaging.:lol2:


why would i keep to private messaging when its a public forum.

we're fixing up the viv as we speak, and i just wanted some final input. so rather that wait for people to come online when i may have done it wrong, i would rather get some input from people that are online, so we get a fast response.

and i do want people to comment, i just want you to stop commenting.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> *why would i keep to private messaging when its a public forum.*
> 
> we're fixing up the viv as we speak, and i just wanted some final input. so rather that wait for people to come online when i may have done it wrong, i would rather get some input from people that are online, so we get a fast response.
> 
> and i do want people to comment, i just want you to stop commenting.


You've just answered your own question....duh!!! You can't always have your cake and eat it....(definitely a type 2 in the making!) :lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> You've just answered your own question....duh!!! You can't always have your cake and eat it....(definitely a type 2 in the making!) :lol2:


i dont care about your imaginary types. and anyway how am i a 'type 2' If i DONT WANT TO KILL MY HEDGEHOG. if thats type 2 then i'l happily be that.

i never said it wasnt a public forum, i ONLY EVER SAID I DONT WANT YOU COMMENTING. so leave it out. 

if anyones a type 3 its you 'mate' you wont stop commenting until i agree that heating is bad. so your the one that thinks *everyone else is wrong, your right* and no one should keep hedgehogs if their going to keep them with heat.


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## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh come on Mrcriss. All G3ck0 has been doing is trying to get advice before he puts the final touches to his new hoglets accomodation (and I think it is great he has come on asking for advice)! 

Rfuk is getting ridiculous for people asking perfectly reasonable questions, and then the original poster getting shot down in flames for NO reason whatsoever.

Mrcriss if you have never had a problem with hogs trying to hibernate, then thats good. I am pleased for you and your hogs.. But I have experienced it on occasions- so whether I am classed as your TYPE 2 3 4 or 5 hog owner, I am not fussed. I have and always will have my hedgehogs best welfare at heart. And I know that had I not got my room heated, or various vivs heated, then I would have lost a lot of my hogs over the years. 

You read about hibernation when their body temperature drops.. it happens. It may not have happened to you, thats fine, but it does and WILL happen if your hog is allowed to get too cold.

If you are cold, you put on a jumper... or go and sit by the heater yes? If a hog has not got heat and it gets cold, it wont jump up and down in the air to keep its body temperature up!!

And as for your classifications as to type 1 2 and 3 hedgehog owners.. its a load of rubbish !! Because yes I spoil my animals, and yes they may have fleece blankets to keep them warm and comfortable.. but heat in MY house is NECESSARY to the welbeing of my hedgehogs !! 

If I went and took away my heater right now, I guarantee that by morning, one or two of my hedgehogs would be stone cold to touch.. and left like it, I know they would succumb to pneumonia etc, leading to their death. That is fact.. so I dont think you can really sit there and say that I am spoiling my hedgehogs giving them unnecessary pampering or whatever, when if I actually took away their heat sources.. they would perish... that would be sheer neglect and not to mention cruelty.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> i dont care about your imaginary types. and anyway how am i a 'type 2' If i DONT WANT TO KILL MY HEDGEHOG. if thats type 2 then i'l happily be that.
> 
> i never said it wasnt a public forum, i ONLY EVER SAID I DONT WANT YOU COMMENTING. so leave it out.
> 
> if anyones a type 3 its you 'mate' you wont stop commenting until i agree that heating is bad. so your the one that thinks *everyone else is wrong, your right* and no one should keep hedgehogs if their going to keep them with heat.


Ok, turn the stress levels down a bit.....:loll:

I never said it's bad to heat your hogs, just that it's not really _needed_. I'm in no way a type 3 because I haven't told you how to keep them...just offered alternatives.

all i've said is that i've never heated, and never suffered any ill effects....that's it 

(oh, and i'll comment if I want to, thank you.....hence the nature of a public forum)


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

and FYI...Africa can get very cold at night time:lol2:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> Ok, turn the stress levels down a bit.....:loll:
> 
> I never said it's bad to heat your hogs, just that it's not really _needed_. I'm in no way a type 3 because I haven't told you how to keep them...just offered alternatives.
> 
> ...


and as i said i've taken that into account. however, i'm using heat.
i'm very glad they've never suffered any ill effects.

i dont mind people commenting, thats why i created a* thread, *so people could comment, but you've insinuated that i was wrong the whole time, calling me a type 2 or whatever, i don't appreciate that, and other people wont either.it doesnt matter about types, or if people do it differently. all that matters is the animal/reptile. and thats all i'm bothered about.

ive got what i need. thankyou slimeysnail and jamiioo. so this thread can be closed because i've had enough of being criticized for asking a simple piece of advice which required a small answer.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

G3ck0 said:


> and as i said i've taken that into account. however, i'm using heat.
> i'm very glad they've never suffered any ill effects.
> 
> i dont mind people commenting, thats why i created a* thread, *so people could comment, but you've insinuted that i was wrong the whole time, calling me a type 2 or whatever, i don't appreciate that, and other people wont either.it doesnt matter about types, or if people do it differently. all that matters is the animal/reptile. and thats all i'm bothered about.
> ...


read it back...I've never said you were wrong, merely that there are different ways of doing things. The only thing I said that I consider to be wrong is having a big light bulb shining down on them as one of my local pet shops seems to have a fondness for doing.

I'm afraid it's your stressing that has led you to believe I was trying to lecture you....something that I wouldn't dream of doing.

I'm bored now


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

G3ck0 said:


> and as i said i've taken that into account. however, i'm using heat.
> i'm very glad they've never suffered any ill effects.
> 
> i dont mind people commenting, thats why i created a* thread, *so people could comment, but you've insinuated that i was wrong the whole time, calling me a type 2 or whatever, i don't appreciate that, and other people wont either.it doesnt matter about types, or if people do it differently. all that matters is the animal/reptile. and thats all i'm bothered about.
> ...


 

Fo more hog friendly advice may I suggest you join Pygmy Hogs UK - African Pygmy Hedgehog Forum
Well done on researching your hedgehogs care properly:no1:


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## G3ck0 (Jun 20, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> Fo more hog friendly advice may I suggest you join Pygmy Hogs UK - African Pygmy Hedgehog Forum
> Well done on researching your hedgehogs care properly:no1:


thankyou  i think after all this, i will be doing.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

mrchris forgot to mention TYPE 4 hedgehog owner

Always the "expert", loves to belittle other owners and never knows when to shut up!!


Hmmmm, now I wonder who could be one of those owners:whistling2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> mrchris forgot to mention TYPE 4 hedgehog owner
> 
> Always the "expert", loves to belittle other owners and never knows when to shut up!!
> 
> ...


Ooooo...very clever Shell....with wit like that, you should be on the tele!:2thumb:

Except that I've never claimed to be an "expert" in anything....apart from maybe the history of London (was once a tour guide) and scaring the crap out of people (as an actor in various horror attractions - I'm very good at that).

Again, look through the thread....I've never said what the OP should be doing, merely offered alternatives whilst getting shouted down by guess what - so called "experts"! 

How does that show in any way that I was trying to play the "expert"???


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> Ooooo...very clever Shell....with wit like that, you should be on the tele!:2thumb:
> 
> Except that I've never claimed to be an "expert" in anything....apart from maybe the history of London (was once a tour guide) and scaring the crap out of people (as an actor in various horror attractions - I'm very good at that).
> 
> ...


 

You have never actually called yourself an "expert" but all your posts have an air of superiority and its your way or no way. Just because people keep their pets in a different way to you doesnt give you the right to belittle them. So what if some people keep their hogs on fleece, does it really matter as long as they are well cared for. Ive had 3 hogs in my life and my oldest lived until he was just over 4 (I use finacad, is that ok?) It was only in his last year he started to try and hibernate which is why I always advise people to use heat.


I never knew that Legoland had any horror attractions:whistling2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> You have never actually called yourself an "expert" but all your posts have an air of superiority and its your way or no way. Just because people keep their pets in a different way to you doesnt give you the right to belittle them. So what if some people keep their hogs on fleece, does it really matter as long as they are well cared for. Ive had 3 hogs in my life and my oldest lived until he was just over 4 (I use finacad, is that ok?) It was only in his last year he started to try and hibernate which is why I always advise people to use heat.
> 
> 
> I never knew that Legoland had any horror attractions:whistling2:


Oh WOW.....STILL????

*sigh*

My advice that external heat is not always necessary was meant IN NO WAY as the definitive way to do things, and my posts suggest no such thing. Of course it's important that all animals are well cared for...

....So for the very last time (for i have a life to continue after this), all I have said is that there are other ways to successfully keep hogs than taking the heat mat/fluffy blanket route that are simpler, cheaper and just as effective. I have never said your methods are wrong (re-read the thread, I implore you), but as such, _you must concede as I do_ that your ways are not the only correct ways. All the whistles and bells are just not _necessary_ to raise hedgehogs to live a long and happy life. The fact that you choose to use them doesn't make it wrong, but neither does the fact that I don't.

So less of this "I don't want to kill my hedgehog" speak, please.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

p.s. I've no idea where the Legoland is....but I have worked in various places under the same company name....i.e the Dungeons, Tussauds, Thorpe Park and Alton Towers...amongst others. Does this help, Shell? Or were you just exhibiting your fabulous wit again by making another side-splitting, sphincter-stretching joke?

But enough about my CV, I'm off to my lovely lovely bed


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

Just wanted to post up to the OP kudos for sticking to your gut feeling.

If you want to use heat on your hedgehog then please do. I use petnap's with mine and a normal oil heater in the room if its cold but not to cold. 

There are countless way's to keep hedgehogs but I myself fall under the category of spoiling my hogs. They are all kept on double fleece liners with a heat source in the viv at all times during the colder months. If it gets to hot I turn them down/off or switch to the oil heater.

I have never had an hibernation attempt. But I am overly cautious with my hogs hence why they are kept in viv's. 

Best of luck with your hog.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

wow, everyones defencive today... 
I have nothing to add just wanted to say I know someone else that works with horror stuff at amusement parks, works with Merlin entertainments, you with the same company? XD


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

em_40 said:


> wow, everyones defencive today...
> I have nothing to add just wanted to say I know someone else that works with horror stuff at amusement parks, works with Merlin entertainments, you with the same company? XD


I was, yep.....before I moved on to other smaller (but better paid) companies  Merlin's massive though....kinda like Disney, without the nazi values :lol2:


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## talanie506 (Nov 24, 2009)

Excuse me if I don't join in the nun fight, but I thought id offer my thoughts.
I keep my hog in a zoozone on the floor.
My hog Dex has a mat and stat and a thermometer as my room regularly goes below 18 degrees and is cold. If you are lucky enough to live in a toasty house you may not need it, the lady I got Mine from didn't heat hers, but I live two miles down the road and have to or he tries to hibernate.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

talanie506 said:


> Excuse me if I don't join in the nun fight, but I thought id offer my thoughts.
> I keep my hog in a zoozone on the floor.
> My hog Dex has a mat and stat and a thermometer as *my room regularly goes below 18 degrees and is cold. I*f you are lucky enough to live in a toasty house you may not need it, the lady I got Mine from didn't heat hers, but I live two miles down the road and have to or he tries to hibernate.


maybe you should put a pound in the meter love!:lol2:


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## talanie506 (Nov 24, 2009)

I should learn to spell too! Nun fight?!?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

talanie506 said:


> I should learn to spell too! Nun fight?!?


Actually, I'd quite like to see a couple of nuns scrapping! Would be infinitely more fascinating than this thread


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## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> Actually, I'd quite like to see a couple of nuns scrapping! Would be infinitely more fascinating than this thread


...But still you keep coming back to it, and posting unhelpful/unnecessary comments..


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

slimeysnail said:


> ...But still you keep coming back to it, and posting unhelpful/unnecessary comments..


Oh, get over yourself!:lol2:


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## xkatymayx (Feb 25, 2011)

mrcriss, your views are different to what I have heard on both UK and American forums. We all know where you stand on heating. What do you think about lighting? We are told hedgehogs need 10-12 hours daylight. I personally have a lamp on a timer to come on in the room at 7-9am and 4-7pm. Do you provide extra light now that our days are getting shorter?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

xkatymayx said:


> mrcriss, your views are different to what I have heard on both UK and American forums. We all know where you stand on heating. What do you think about lighting? We are told hedgehogs need 10-12 hours daylight. I personally have a lamp on a timer to come on in the room at 7-9am and 4-7pm. Do you provide extra light now that our days are getting shorter?


Good question.....my answer is no, I don't. Seeing as hedgehogs are nocturnal animals, and left to their own devices would never be seen out of the nest during daylight hours, then what is the point? It's the same with leopard geckos, which unlike most lizards, don't need to be kept with a UV light on them, because they're nocturnal.

May I ask what kind of lighting you're shining down on your hog? If (as I suspect) it's your average bog standard light bulb, then this is completely pointless. Various shops have normal spot bulbs beaming down on their stressed out hogs, and it serves very little purpose whatsoever......why light an animal that will always seek to be in the dark?

If, in fact, you are using a UV strip bulbs to light your hogs, then I've read nothing to suggest this is necessary. A little UV light to aid the production of vitamin D can't harm any animal, in fact there are children these days in this country that _actually have rickets_ (a condition thought to have died out in the 20's) because their parents aren't chucking them outside to play in the sun anymore! However, back to the point, my hogs are never seen out of the nest during daylight hours, and so would never benefit from even a UV light shining down on them!

So if you'd care to clarify exactly what kind of lamp you have shining on your hogs, aswell as the reasons why and what benefits they gain from this, then that would be spiffing:2thumb:

Cheers!


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## stokesy (Mar 11, 2011)

I heated my hedgehog with a ceramic heat bulb and stat. I was suprised by how cold our house is, he attempted a hibernation the first month I had him (fail on my part, unplugged his stat by mistake :blush


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## xkatymayx (Feb 25, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> Good question.....my answer is no, I don't. Seeing as hedgehogs are nocturnal animals, and left to their own devices would never be seen out of the nest during daylight hours, then what is the point? It's the same with leopard geckos, which unlike most lizards, don't need to be kept with a UV light on them, because they're nocturnal.
> 
> May I ask what kind of lighting you're shining down on your hog? If (as I suspect) it's your average bog standard light bulb, then this is completely pointless. Various shops have normal spot bulbs beaming down on their stressed out hogs, and it serves very little purpose whatsoever......why light an animal that will always seek to be in the dark?
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering my question. I have heard that changes in daylight can induce hibernation attempts which is why it is recommended to have light for 10-12 hours a day. I agree hedgehogs are nocturnal and do everything in the dark, but nocturnal animals need to know when it is daylight so they can sleep and when it is dark so they can get up. Dark all the time might confuse them about when to sleep and when to be awake, it would throw their body clock off.

I was having a look at hedgehog central and found a post on light and hibernation attempts, they recommend longer hours of daylight:
Hedgehog Central Forums • View topic - Is This Hibernation?

"It's recommended to keep the temp in the cage at least at 73 and most hogs need it even warmer than that. You also want to make sure it stays pretty steady, with no more than a couple degrees change. A sudden drop or rise in temperature can cause an attempt as well, as can not enough light (they need 12-14 hours)."


No need to worry about the lighting I am using. I agree that UV should not be used. I can assure you there are no lights directly shining on my hogs


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

xkatymayx said:


> Thanks for answering my question. I have heard that changes in daylight can induce hibernation attempts which is why it is recommended to have light for 10-12 hours a day. I agree hedgehogs are nocturnal and do everything in the dark, but nocturnal animals need to know when it is daylight so they can sleep and when it is dark so they can get up. Dark all the time might confuse them about when to sleep and when to be awake, it would throw their body clock off.
> 
> I was having a look at hedgehog central and found a post on light and hibernation attempts, they recommend longer hours of daylight:
> Hedgehog Central Forums • View topic - Is This Hibernation?
> ...


Fair enough, although how a normal tungsten spot bulb or lamp can simulate daylight to a hog is beyond me.....surely for that theory to be effective, it would have to be a UV light?

Which is all well and good..............

.........if you live in a cave 

I, however, live in a house with windows made of glass that let in plenty of light.

Throughout this all too lengthy thread, there has been much said about heating and lighting being *essential* to the well-being of a hedgehog, *OR THEY WILL HIBERNATE AND DIE!!!!!* All I have pointed out (and been wrongly slammed for) is that _this isn't strictly necessary_.....that's all. How do I know this? Because my hogs are thriving, and even _breeding_ during the winter, without ever attempting to hibernate. Nor have they ever suffered the endless list of stresses and illnesses that are constantly moaned about on this forum. I am merely trying to point out to any new worried hog owners that there are alternative ways of successfully caring for them, as opposed to those methods that are supposedly "set in stone" by so-called "experts".

So you can all slam me as much as you like for choosing not to provide extra heating and lighting, but I must be doing something right, as the latest fantastic litter that has just been snapped up is testament to! :2thumb:

I'm done here.....or bored.....or both


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

That post would be looked at alot more respectfully without the immature comments. I was actually enjoying reading your posts despite not agreeing with your method..(nor do you agree with mine) but little daft comments like:



mrcriss said:


> Fair enough, although how a normal tungsten spot bulb or lamp can simulate daylight to a hog is beyond me.....surely for that theory to be effective, it would have to be a UV light?
> 
> *Which is all well and good..............
> 
> ...


or....




mrcriss said:


> maybe you should put a pound in the meter love!:lol2:


If you could accept people have different ways of keeping animals instead of making sarcastic remarks then would it not be a nicer discussion? 



> So you can all slam me as much as you like for choosing not to provide extra heating and lighting, but I must be doing something right, as the latest fantastic litter that has just been snapped up is testament to!


I would just like to pull up that bit. Many top breeders use heating ect and dont encounter health issues.

Myself, I use petnap, snugglesafe, central heating and oil heaters incase. (and omg!!! use liners) However I have not in my 4 years of having hedgehogs had a sick hedgehog nor had mites nor hibernation attempts. Just had a litter of 5 who were hand reared from 2 weeks and 4 days old and had no health issues on their part nor on mummy hogs part. 4 of the 5 are now in their forever homes and 1 is my keeper from the litter. 

So I must be doing something right too. 

:whistling2:

This is one of those things, many will use heating forms and many wont the discussion could go round and round.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

My flippant remarks are merely gags.....japes to be taken in good humour. I forget that a sense of humour is habitually absent on this often exasperating forum. I therefore apologise profusely for my attempts to lighten this stale thread.:blush:

Please, I beg you, re-read my posts. I have NEVER....repeat NEVER....said that what you do with all the whistles and bells is wrong. All i've said (here we go again *deep sigh*) is that they aren't _*necessary*_ (as in _not essential_) for the successful husbandry of APH's. It has been the others, including your good self, that have by implication accused me of bad husbandry, by suggesting that not providing all this stuff will lead to the death of their hogs. 

Simply...Not ...True!

I'm afraid, Emma, that you aren't really ingesting what I'm writing. By saying "it isn't necessary", I haven't said you're wrong....merely not necessary. I am fully aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat (unfortunate metaphor?):whistling2:


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> I'm afraid, Emma, that you aren't really ingesting what I'm writing. By saying "it isn't necessary", I haven't said you're wrong....merely not necessary. I am fully aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat (unfortunate metaphor?):whistling2:


Oh no, Did I say you said I was wrong? If I did I apologize. What I meant to say was that you do not agree with my methods IE/ keeping them on liners ect.

For example, I am sure there are houses that maintain heat enough (and with a rather large bill) that heat sources are not needed however its not something I would do myself. (meaning I don't agree with keeping hedgehogs without a source of heat for cold days but its not wrong to not keep them with heat as I wouldnt possibly know how hot your house is). 

Heating in my house is necessary as my lounge is very large and even with central heating on both end walls (1 being a large oil heater) on cold days I can only just get the room to 22c (at a push), that's with the heating up full. I use a small oil heater next to the vivs or the petnaps which keep the temp more stable.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> Oh no, Did I say you said I was wrong? If I did I apologize. What I meant to say was that you do not agree with my methods IE/ keeping them on liners ect.
> 
> For example, I am sure there are houses that maintain heat enough (and with a rather large bill) that heat sources are not needed however its not something I would do myself. (meaning I don't agree with keeping hedgehogs without a source of heat for cold days but its not wrong to not keep them with heat as I wouldnt possibly know how hot your house is).
> 
> Heating in my house is necessary as my lounge is very large and even with central heating on both end walls (1 being a large oil heater) on cold days I can only just get the room to 22c (at a push), that's with the heating up full. I use a small oil heater next to the vivs or the petnaps which keep the temp more stable.


Well I keep my house at a steady 20 degrees....which has proved to be ample warm enough for my fellas - they remain just as active as during the warmer months.

As far as your earlier point about me not agreeing with all the fleecy stuff.....you're right, I have to say I don't. IMO, hedgehogs are animals, not babies, and should be treated as such. 

For example, I know my hedgehogs gain hours of entertainment in foraging bits of food and bugs from the wood chippings.....a _natural_ behaviour that they sadly miss out on when kept on liners. Maybe I'm just not as sentimental, or maybe I want to provide a more "natural" environment (or as near as poss), and I get pleasure from giving the most basic enrichment of a scatter feed......something that I believe the hogs find far more rewarding than all the teddy bears and jangling balls that so many keepers stuff their enclosures with.

I guess we should put the whole matter down to a "horses for courses" situation, and give up this debate......I'm SO over it!


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

Mine have a stat and a heat mat even though my house is warm. I have three hogs, all in the same room, set at the same temp etc but early this year one started to hibernate. Its very scary when you realise as i'm sure your aware it can be fatal. The other two hogs were fine so its my opinion that they all have slightly different requirements. I had to turn her temp up a little and ive had no problems since, the other two remain the same. Better to be safe than sorry? 

Plus the added bonus is, if for some reason yours went into hibernation you would able to control the temp withough having to heat the entire house.


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

When i got my 2nd hog from a recommended breeder they actually said to me that heating isn't necessary as they can cope without additional heating as long as the temperatures don't fall below 19/20 degrees. If you can maintain the room temperature where your hog is kept at this temperature and above then your hogs should be fine. Therefore:-

Temperatures of below 19 degrees: Additional heating IS necessary.
Fluctuating Temperatures: Additional heating i would say is necessary to maintain a constant temperature for the animal
Temperatures Above 19 degrees: Additional heating is NOT necessary.

That being said, every hog is different, i am sure there are cases of hogs having experienced 18 degrees with no ill effects and cases of hogs experiencing 22 degrees and having a hibernation attempt. 

To prevent big debates like this i would say the solution would be when you are recommending your views to a newbie just make it clear that heating is only not necessary if temperatures are 19 degrees and above, that way no one is going to get the wrong idea and think its alight to keep hogs in rooms that could be a potentially low temperature

I don't use additional heating in the summer as my room is warm enough as is. Have not needed to add the heat mats into the vivs yet as my room has still been about 20 degrees and both hogs are active as normal, but i plan on adding them in soon, still need to alter both vivs. I don't use additional lighting as my bedroom light is on half the night anyway.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Who keeps their house colder than 19? Eskimos???:lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

(Doh! I forgot I'm not allowed to joke!)


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

There are no rules that say Eskimos cant have hogs lol


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> (Doh! I forgot I'm not allowed to joke!)


Oi, there's a difference between sarcastic comments and jokes. Plus that was a rather tasteful joke.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> Oi, there's a difference between sarcastic comments and jokes. Plus that was a rather tasteful joke.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I mean no offence by this, so please don't jump down my throat....but I think you're seeing sarcasm _when you want_ to read sarcasm, and humour _when it suits you_.

After all, contrary to the weak as wee popular phrase spouted ad nauseam by the kind of Daily-Mail-reading, Cameron/Clegg-loving, horlicks-drinking, Katie Melhua-listening, Downton Abbey-watching chumps....sarcasm is a highly valid form of wit!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> I mean no offence by this, so please don't jump down my throat....but I think you're seeing sarcasm _when you want_ to read sarcasm, and humour _when it suits you_.
> 
> After all, contrary to the weak as wee popular phrase spouted ad nauseam by the kind of Daily-Mail-reading, Cameron/Clegg-loving, horlicks-drinking, Katie Melhua-listening, Downton Abbey-watching chumps....sarcasm is a highly valid form of wit!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I find telling someone they should put some money on the meter because their house is colder than yours offensive. Some houses dont retain heat like others, or dont heat up as well as others. Suggesting they need to go put money on their gas meter can be taken offensive.

Using sarcasm to have little digs at folk is a bit below the belt since no one else on here has been petty the thread was started by someone seeking advice.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> I find telling someone they should put some money on the meter because their house is colder than yours offensive. Some houses dont retain heat like others, or dont heat up as well as others. Suggesting they need to go put money on their gas meter can be taken offensive.
> 
> Using sarcasm to have little digs at folk is a bit below the belt since no one else on here has been petty the thread was started by someone seeking advice.


As I said, there was no sarcasm in that comment.....you're seeing it wherever you want to so that you can have your petty pops at me! "Put a pound in the meter, love" is a commonly used northern joke! Everyone from Les Dawson to Foo Foo Lamar and every pant dame in england has used that old chestnut at some time! I would've thought you might know that coming from Clitheroe....or are you too posh round that way to have had coin operated meters?:lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

As a Yorkshire lad, I'm starting to wonder if you Lancashire lot didn't fall short when it came to doling out the funny bones?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

BESIDES....THAT ISN'T EVEN SARCASM!!!! Look it up in a dictionary, my dear. Sarcasm is the use of irony to convey contempt. That line is devoid of irony, nor is it contemptuous......so before you get on your high horse, and start having a little go, at least get your accusations correct!:bash:


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> I would've thought you might know that coming from Clitheroe....or are you too posh round that way to have had coin operated meters?:lol2:


Must be the posh thing since I have never seen a coin operated meter. Seen a card meter but I dont use meters. 

From near Clitheroe, not quite Clitheroe.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> Must be the posh thing since I have never seen a coin operated meter. Seen a card meter but I dont use meters.
> 
> From near Clitheroe, not quite Clitheroe.


hahahahaha! life must be a very serious affair where you are! i think i should send Dodd round with his tickling stick to kick start your sense of humour, dear:lol2:


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> hahahahaha! life must be a very serious affair where you are! i think i should send Dodd round with his tickling stick to kick start your sense of humour, dear:lol2:


I have a sense of humor just fine, but not at others expense.
That or maybe your sense of humor is a little....off?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> I have a sense of humor just fine, but not at others expense.
> That or maybe your sense of humor is a little....off?


OMG....are you for real??? I wonder if you look like the picture in my head?

I......

There............

Can..................

No....I'm gonna go now. There's literally nothing (amusing or otherwise) that I can say to you. Because anything I do write will no doubt end up with you throwing a hissy fit or finding offence where there was never any meant, and I don't think you're worth getting into trouble for (this thread certainly isn't!).

I like to lead a happy life, and try to keep conversation light-hearted and amusing (to me at least)......it's a shame the same can't be said for you, Emma my love 

And with that, I bid you, your hedgehog/baby hybrids, your unnatural fleecy liners, and your fluffy wuffy ways, Goodbye 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

Is this still going on..... :lol2:


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

G3ck0 said:


> hi, getting a baby aph in a few weeks time. i'm keeping her in a viv. i was just wondered whether it would be best to heat with a mat and stat, or a bulb and stat? was just abit worried that with a heat mat on wood shavings, she could burn her feet. and if i put something over the heat mat that it wouldn't heat it as well. plus, with the bulb we would be able to see her better. and input would be most helpful.
> 
> thanks


I use a red heat bulb on a dimming thermostat - works a treat


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> OMG....are you for real??? I wonder if you look like the picture in my head?



I am not blonde. Would love to know what image of me you have?




mrcriss said:


> I like to lead a happy life, and try to keep conversation light-hearted and amusing (to me at least)......it's a shame the same can't be said for you, Emma my love
> 
> And with that, I bid you, your hedgehog/baby hybrids, your unnatural fleecy liners, and your fluffy wuffy ways, Goodbye
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Can you feel the sexual tension? :mf_dribble:
I have a cute little liner with kitty cats on it just for you.:flrt:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

emmamalakian said:


> Can you feel the sexual tension? :mf_dribble:


     :blowup:


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## hedgehogzilla (Oct 6, 2011)

well i think its over? I think i'm scared to post for advice now... woah eight pages long?!


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