# Vivarium build



## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

So I'm planning on building a lager vivarium for my Royal Python. It's going to be built on a special desk that I can raise and lower for better access (I'm a wheelchair user ). Working within the desks size, I'm looking at length: 1600mm width: 787mm height: 1200mm (roughly 5ft x 4ft x 2.5ft). I'm planning on using 18mm thick melamine covered mdf for it and it's coming in at well under £200. 

Next is the glass and this is where I could use some input. I'm unsure of size and type of glass to use. On looking at glass, I'm thinking low iron toughened glass, but very open to ideas. It's looking like the glass is going to be the most expensive part. The front is 1600mm x 1200mm, but obviously the glass needs to be smaller. 

This is going to be Fluffys home for life and I want to get it right, but I don't have loads of disposable income and want to make sure the money is spent in the best way.

Ideas and thoughts please?


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

In all the vivs I have made for my own use I've only used standard 4mm float glass, with all the edges ground, which makes them slide nice in the tracks and more importantly doesn't cut up the nose of a snake as it rubs against the, trying to see if they can get out of the gap. There is a risk, if the glass is likely to get broken it will brake into shards rather than explode into tiny cubes, but in the 35+ years of keeping snakes, having brought up three kids, and have had three large dogs I've never had a situation where a glass panel got smashed. Commercial vivs have to have toughened glass as they are classed as an item of furniture, and need to display the kite mark for the appropriate standard.

I can't really recommend a supplier as I use a local guy and often (even for my large boa's viv) he cuts them from left over off cuts from large sheets, so a pair of 600mm x 300mm x 4mm GAR panels typically only cost me £10. Can I confirm that your viv will be 1600mm (L) x 1200mm (H) x 787mm (W). This would make each panel almost 4' tall and around 840mm (allowing for overlap) wide. Given that I would suggest using 6mm glass. Yes it adds weight, but would reduce flexing. IMO whilst we know Royals love to climb, 4' height, whilst nice, you may want to consider reducing the height somewhat. It would also give you more clearance as I'm assuming the table is one that is motorised (normally used in offices to give the option of working standing up or sitting down). If you raised the desk to normal desk height of around 30", this will place the top of the viv almost at 7'.

For tracking I use Carlisle Glass - 2.4m long x 6mm track is £6.30 +VAT for the lower section and £8.10 +VAT for the top. Plus delivery (which was £6.00 +VAT via Fed Ex when I last ordered form them in 2020).

Could you also consider using melamine faced chipboard rather than MDF, which would reduce the weight considerably. Also I found an excellent website that provides a full cutting list and panel optimisation. Cut List Optimizer  allows you to enter each panel (top, bottom, left and right ends, back and two strips for the track) dimensions and quantity, the sheet size, eg 2440mm x 1220mm, and the kerf of the blade (typically 4 - 6mm). It then works out the best way to cut the sheets. If you opted for a 6mm ply back you could get away with using just two sheets of 18mm melamine board, with a few off cuts. If you opted for a 1600 x 1200mm solid back made form 18mm melamine board then you'll need three 8 x 4 sheets.

Not knowing the spec of the table that you are getting, but check the load capability. A stock sheet of 18mm faced MDF weighs around 37kg. A rough estimate if you opted for a solid back would be around 95kg for the timber and then 6mm glass comes in at around 15kg m2 the whole viv could end up weighing 125 - 130kg. That's above the 100kg limit I found on most motorised desks.

Anyway, hope that helps... don't forget we want to see build pictures as the project progresses


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

@Malc Huge thank you for your input. I've only just started searching for the wood and glass, still in very early stages of my planning. To me, this is the most important stage of getting it right, hence asking for input. 

Weight was concerning me, I'll need to check what my desk can hold (yes, it's motorised). It's very solid that's for sure. I got it when I was studying for my science degree, the adjustable height making it much easy for my wheels. On reading you comments, I'm going to cut the height to 3ft, which still gives plenty of space for climbing. 

I'll definitely look into melamine covered chipboard, my plan is to get it ready cut to my needs as I can't cut it and I don't want to pile more work on hubby. Is it likely to weigh less? Our current viv has 10mm board, I was thinking of going thicker for strength. I want a solid back of melamine covered board as it's better with moisture and ultimately looks nicer. 

I'm more than happy to use a different glass, I know absolutely nothing about it except the usual toughened glass. The cost of toughened glass is massive, so if I can save on it and use something else that will safely work, it would get great. 

Once I get going, I'll definitely show pics of the build.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Elly you're welcome,

Have a search for companies in your area that specialise in sheet panels that get supplied to kitchen and wardrobe manufactures. They normally have a wider choice of materials, including melamine faced back and end panels in 6mm MDF. Using a thinner material for the back panel not only makes the viv lighter, it will also work out cheaper. I have a company called RP Panels about 15 mile away and they sometimes have end of line offers. Two years ago I was able to get all the panels for my stack of 4 vivs form one huge "oversized" 2620mm x 2070mm of 18mm light oak melamine faced chipboard for just £20 plus VAT. The draw back was that their cutting service wasn't free (unlike B&Q) and it cost me £50 for the panel to be cut to form all the parts, but it meant that assembly was just a case of using clamps and pocket holes (well worth investing in one of the jigs ) to screw the parts together, which isn't really difficult as its just boxes within boxes as you can see below










It's hard to predict the total weight, I juts took the average panel weight of a sheet of faced 18mm chipboard and deducted approximately 25% for the "waste" of the second sheet. You would need to find out if the 100K that most of the motorised tables state as been the maximum is the absolute limit, or they have factored in a safety margin and in reality they can raise 120kg. Reducing the height to 3' would make the Viv weigh less, especially due to the reduction of size for the glass panels. You could opt for 4mm ground all round panels for that size, again reducing the weight.

One thing to consider when looking at just one viv is if there is really any saving to be made over a commercially produced viv. Now I've never used this company, but Pro-Vivs have a 1500mm x 600mm x 600mm (5' x 2' x 2') viv listed at £185 here which weigh 55kg and is well within the weight of most motorised tables. They also offer a 3' tall version at £238. Like I said, I've never used them, and can't comment on their sales or after sales service, but with wood being so expensive these days, it's worth setting the £238 as the benchmark when comparing costs. But it is more fun designing and building your own  

Other factors to think about is delivery costs. Often you can find a supplier for glass at a reasonable cost, only to find the delivery cost is horrendous. Anyway, I'm glad to have been able to provide my 2p worth.... good luck with whatever option you end up with, I'm sure your royal will love the space


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

@Malc 
I'll definitely be looking locally, though West Norfolk seems to have more timber yards than anything else. Hubby told me yesterday that we have a pile of 2ft x 2ft greenhouse glass here, but it's not very thick and I'm unsure how well it would work. I'm getting him to measure it today. We've decided we'll only go for 3ft high, rather than 4ft. 

My main reason for self build is to utilise the available space of the desk. The top of the desk will be the vivs base. I will however look at Pro vivs. It's going to be a case of drawing my plans, getting quotes and then comparing it to ready made ones. I do like the idea of making my own though 😁


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