# mexican red knee and mexican flame knee? which is better for first T and difference?



## farnell182

hi all, as in title, whats the difference between the two and what would make a better beginner T seen a flame knee in the local shop and really liked it just thought i would get some thoughts first, thanks


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## Cockys Royals

Neither are ideal starters, depending on who is having it and age id say chille rose is the best starter.


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## farnell182

Cockys Corny said:


> Neither are ideal starters, depending on who is having it and age id say chille rose is the best starter.


well its for me im 20, any reasons why they don't make a good starter species? i have done alot of research and from what i had read was thinking they would be OK. am interested as to why they wouldn't make a good starter species? thanks


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## daikenkai

i dont see why theyre not good starters? Any Brachy is easy enough if correct care is given, so is most Ts really. 
Plus id say an B. Albopilosum more than a G. Rosea as a starter. Theyre a lot less iffy with their feeds.


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## bmsonline

There are lots of differing opinions on what makes a good beginner tarantula, but I think it comes down more to what the owner is used to and what they want from a pet. An example would be someone who is used to fast and dangerous snakes might find a slow moving Grammostola rosea boring and would have the ability to keep the faster more aggressive spiders. The reason some say a Brachypelma smithi isn't a great beginner tarantula is because they readily flick hairs with little provocation. The hairs can make you itch for hours or even days. I would recommend anything from the Grammostola, Brachypelma, Avicularia or Euathlus genus. 

Alex


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## farnell182

cheers :2thumb: i had read about the b.smithi flicking hairs, but on all the care sheets seem to make out its a good starter. is there much difference between the Mexican red knee and Mexican fire knee? or Mexican red leg? (hadn't seen this before until just on the net)


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## matt1983

The fire knee/ leg are more skittish than the red knee I have got a red knee sling and this is my first t with the right care they are fine


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## bmsonline

Out of the three you are interested in I would recommend the Mexican Red Leg (Brachypelma emilia) as they are generally slow moving, not very flicky and have a nice temperament. The Mexican Flame Knee (Brachypelma auratum) are very flicky, fast and can be quite bad tempered in comparison to other Brachypelmas. The Mexican Red Knee (Brachypelma smithi) is quite slow, docile but again they are quite flicky. 

Alex


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## daikenkai

My Emilia was a flicky cow, but after speaking to others she seemed to be the only one out there that was! I agree though, theyre gorgeous little things too!


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## farnell182

bmsonline said:


> Out of the three you are interested in I would recommend the Mexican Red Leg (Brachypelma emilia) as they are generally slow moving, not very flicky and have a nice temperament. The Mexican Flame Knee (Brachypelma auratum) are very flicky, fast and can be quite bad tempered in comparison to other Brachypelmas. The Mexican Red Knee (Brachypelma smithi) is quite slow, docile but again they are quite flicky.
> 
> Alex


cheers to everybody :2thumb:

is there much difference in sizes between them? from what i have read they are about the same size fully grown as a chili rose is this correct? thanks


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## bmsonline

farnell182 said:


> is there much difference in sizes between them? from what i have read they are about the same size fully grown as a chili rose is this correct? thanks


They all get to around 5-6" leg span as adults. 

Alex


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## Erinaceinae

B.smithi - red knee - most docile, some flicky and nervous but rarely agressive. mine was my first T when i was 10.
B.boehmi - red leg - bit more flicky than smithi but tend to be slower than some
B.emilia - paint leg - flicks and fairly nervy, but one of the most stunning
B. albopilosa - curly hair - feeding machines. docile and don't seem to flick much. very underrated because they lack red, but when you see one freshly molted in person they are amazing!
B. auratum - fairly flicky and skittish i believe, but its the only one i havent yet kept.

brachypelma.co.uk is a good website.

TBH any would make a good starter T, but any could also make an awful first T. i have encountered a couple of chiles that readily rear up/bite, and are incredibly fussy feeders.
i think people generalise Ts too much in term of species, ignoring the fact they are individuals and (with sub-adults/adults) it depends on how they have been looked after previously.

in my opinion, your best bet is to choose say two species you like the LOOK of from a 'recommended' genus, then try to find a grown on individual you know feeds well and isn't aggressive, (and handleable should you want that).

hope that helped,

elsa


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## garlicpickle

I have a smithi, a boehmei and an auratum.

The boehmei is fairly typical in being nervy and very ready to flick hair. The slightest knock to her tank has her scuttling about in panic kicking hairs in all directions.

The auratum is only a large sling but from what I've observed, it is skitty but I've never seen it flick.

The smithi is adult and I have to prod her from time to time to make sure she's alive. She is so chilled she's almost comatose.

I had a chile rose red form and it was quite mean. It never flicked hairs but would threat pose at any disturbance and if you touched it (say with a paintbrush to get it to move out of the way for changing the water) it would attempt to bite the brush.


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## andy07966

I think b.smithi is the ideal starter spider, its docile, eats well, fairly hardy too. Not sure about the "flame knee".


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## SpiderGirl33

Get both?


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## farnell182

so in all fairness if i went for a b.smithi, shouldn't go far wrong? not really sure what am going to get lol was looking at chili rose but then spotted the Mexican red knee in the shop and looked really nice lol, thanks for all the replies :notworthy:


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## SpiderGirl33

Shouldn't go wrong, easy as pie to keep :2thumb:


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## Erinaceinae

as i said in my previous post, you *shouln't* but just because its a smithi, doesnt mean it is automatically a docile good tempered thing. how big is the one u saw?

elsa


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## Cockys Royals

Ive got 2 smittis, 1 is a sling of sorts around 1 inch completely, and the other is near enough adult, the larger one female shes docile but DOES tend to flick hairs, thats what my concern was to start with, when I read the topic, yes the hairs are annoying & can last for a few days itching, she hasnt got me yet, but I tend to pop my hand in once a week to clean her out, I do have a tiger rump whos a tad more faster not sure what age he/she is, brought it from someone on the forum and cant remember, but have been told they can be a tad temperamental so I dont mess with him. I have been told chillis are the best, but only being back into spiddys for last few months after a 25 year break :lol2:, as per usual ideas change so does information. But end of the day as you said your 20 so maybe wise enough to know what you want.

Good luck in your choice. :2thumb:


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## andy07966

I would get a sling or juvie first, thats what I did and i think its more rewarding to watch them grow and develop. Also then you get to know what its like before its big enough to do you any damage.


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## ph0bia

bmsonline said:


> ...*a Brachypelma smithi isn't a great beginner tarantula* is because they readily flick hairs with little provocation...
> ...I* would recommend* *anything* *from the* Grammostola, *Brachypelma*...


Anyone else see the hypocrisy here? 

All Brachypelma make wonderful pets, and if I'm honest, I've found my B.auratum to be even calmer than my B.smithi - both of whom are much calmer than my G.rosea.

Honestly, to answer the OP, if it's a toss-up between B.smithi or B.auratum; go with whichever you prefer, or both! Yes, why not both? Seriously though, ask the store to show them you properly, see their temperament etc.

Personally, however, I find the auratum slightly more beautiful.


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## garlicpickle

Why don't you quote Alex properly before you start accusing him of hypocrisy?



bmsonline said:


> *The reason some say* a Brachypelma smithi isn't a great beginner tarantula is because they readily flick hairs with little provocation. The hairs can make you itch for hours or even days. I would recommend anything from the Grammostola, Brachypelma, Avicularia or Euathlus genus.
> 
> Alex


All Brachypelma are capable of flicking hairs and some will do so more readily than others. Some people are more sensitive to the hairs. My smithi has never flicked since I had her, and my boehmei flicks if I even look in her direction. At the end of the day, an individual spider even from recommended "starter spiders" will have its own temperament and unfortunately there is no way of knowing how skittish or flicky it will be.

Euathlus sp are generally considered docile, with the single exception E. vulpinus, which according to Spidershop will readily rear up to display its fangs and bite if provoked. Yet, I have one of these and it has never showed the slightest sign of aggression. I actually cleaned some substrate off its legs with a paintbrush after I'd brought it home on the train from Wales, and it never even moved!


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## TEENY

My Emilia is a lot flightier than my Smithi but i don't know if that is coz the Smithi is a lot bigger and older now


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## farnell182

the b.smithi had gone in the shop. but was a nice g.rosea, handled really well, but TBH thought it was a tad overpriced, £25. rang another shop and they said they can order me one in for £13 which seems more reasonable :2thumb:


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## farnell182

farnell182 said:


> the b.smithi had gone in the shop. but was a nice g.rosea, handled really well, but TBH thought it was a tad overpriced, £25. rang another shop and they said they can order me one in for £13 which seems more reasonable :2thumb:


although if anybody has one up for sale around wolverhampton .. :whistling2:


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## garlicpickle

have a look on TheSpiderShop:- - Suppliers of Arachnids and other quality Invertebrates

They just got a new shipment in, there are some roseas I believe.


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## farnell182

garlicpickle said:


> have a look on TheSpiderShop:- - Suppliers of Arachnids and other quality Invertebrates
> 
> They just got a new shipment in, there are some roseas I believe.


thanks :notworthy:


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## selina20

Both are good beginners but do flick like hell especially the B.boehmei. It depends how much you are willing to spend on them as B.smithis tend to be a little more expensive. Also which one do you prefer to look at and the availability to you of either species.


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## gwinni

Out of the Brachys i have i find that my albopilosum is my worst flicker , the smithi is my least flicky, and will have to see what the boehemi is like when it gets a bit bigger lols but it's a nervous wee thing.


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## ph0bia

Firstly, the hypocrisy thing was purposefully edited such for humor... 



gwinni said:


> Out of the Brachys i have i find that my albopilosum is my worst flicker , the smithi is my least flicky, and will have to see what the boehemi is like when it gets a bit bigger lols but it's a nervous wee thing.


Exactly. People (myself included) will state that certain species are "docile, rarely kick" etc, but that's the usual case scenario. Most people will say that A.genic can get quite defensive and skittish, handled a beautiful MM two days ago that my girlfriend's looking after ('til I can bring it back) because some guy got rid of it "'cos it was a male". *sigh*

A tarantula is for life, not just pre-maturation...

Of course, every species has variation (The G.rosea's that rear more than your average C.crawshayi, the P.murinus that copes with handling...).


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## garlicpickle

Must admit I don't think I'd handle my A. genic - its feeding response is so strong that I swear the crickets don't even hit the ground!


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## Rosie27

My Emilia always flicked hair even if i walked past her tub she lived in!


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## crestiedaz

i have had a Brachypelma emilia and she was really nice and tame nevery kicked hairs at me she was my first spider but she died during molt and i have just brought a nhandu chromatus but the emilias are a good starter T


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## ph0bia

garlicpickle said:


> Must admit I don't think I'd handle my A. genic - its feeding response is so strong that I swear the crickets don't even hit the ground!


Encapsulating my point nicely 

It's always worth asking the store staff if you can see the spider properly, take the tub down and open it, gently prod the spider with a pen or whatever and gauge it's reaction if they're not willing to handle it (and neither are you).

Even a B.smithi or B.emilia or (insert docile spider here) may be a haughty specimen determined to deter anyone and anything.


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## garlicpickle

I don't mind it being like that though. If I want a spidery cuddle, my smithi never objects to coming out for walkies


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