# DWA enclosures



## marky0283 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi all,

I've just popped in from the lizard section as I have a question which you guys can help me with.

I went to my local rep shop and he had a Green Mamba, a Rattlesnake and a croc (there were a few other DWA species but can't remember what). My question is what are the regulations for the enclosures?

They were being kept in vivs the same as all the other animals with no additional security. Is this right?

Cheers,

Mark


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

If the public have access to the shop, which realistically they would, the animals* should* be housed in a separate room, in any event, the animals must be housed in locked vivariums. However, he would/should have been inspected by his local authority prior to issue of his PSL, although this doesn't mean that he couldn't have aquired the animals after the inspection.
If the owner has no security on the vivs then he's asking for a whole lot of trouble if he gets caught


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

The petshop that used to be near me was alowed to have his DWA on the condition that tha public could not get close enough to touch the vivs, His security was also very poor.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

marky0283 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've just popped in from the lizard section as I have a question which you guys can help me with.
> 
> ...


 If its Steve’s shop – I think you will find its well equipped for venomous snakes – the majority of his collection is upstairs, out of the way of praying eyes who fall short of DWA knowledge.

Dave


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## marky0283 (Nov 19, 2008)

All the vivs with reps in had locks on them and the DWA's were just in the shop with the rest of the reps with no additional security. They were not in a seperate room or anything. Whenever I have seen them before in other places they have always been in locked vivs behind a locked door or seperated in some way whereas these arn't which is what made me ask


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

marky0283 said:


> All the vivs with reps in had locks on them and the DWA's were just in the shop with the rest of the reps with no additional security. They were not in a seperate room or anything. Whenever I have seen them before in other places they have always been in locked vivs behind a locked door or seperated in some way whereas these arn't which is what made me ask


 
I assume you are talking about Emerald Exotics. Like Dave has mentioned, the vast majority of Steves venomous collection is housed upstairs in a seperate room.
As you mentioned, all the the venomous species housed on the shop floor have locks on the cages, and as this is all that the local authority have requested, then this is all steve needs. The public do not have access to the keys, he doesnt remove the animals during opening hours and there is always a staff member on the shop floor. He has had venomous species and crocodillians on the shop floor for public veiwing since he opened.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Even if there were no locks on - you would only put your hand in once!

I'd like to leave my_ D. polylepis_ in my car, unlocked, so as the b*****d who broke into it a couple of weeks ago paid his late ancestors a well deserved early visit.


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## marky0283 (Nov 19, 2008)

I was just curious as it was different to what I had seen before. Thanks for the answers


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## salvatoruk (Apr 28, 2009)

pythondave82 said:


> I'd like to leave my_ D. polylepis_ in my car, unlocked, so as the b*****d who broke into it a couple of weeks ago paid his late ancestors a well deserved early visit.


Dave, I've totally overlooked the importance of polylepis. I want mine back! It's a fair bit cheaper than a new alarm system...


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

pythondave82 said:


> Even if there were no locks on - you would only put your hand in once!
> 
> I'd like to leave my_ D. polylepis_ in my car, unlocked, so as the b*****d who broke into it a couple of weeks ago paid his late ancestors a well deserved early visit.


 
LMFAO!!! People like that are :censor: and deserve the majority of their punishments.....Although death from a snake envenomation is a bit OTT.

I wish more pet shops near me had Venomous on show.....I'd get a little more understanding if this was so.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

I am hoping to open my own shop soon and I was going to build a small glass room in the shop for a few venemous snakes.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> I am hoping to open my own shop soon and I was going to build a small glass room in the shop for a few venemous snakes.


 
Very cool....Next holiday I take down Cornwall....remind me to pop in


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Very cool....Next holiday I take down Cornwall....remind me to pop in


 I just have to go on some courses to back my ability to run my own business and I should be on thelist to get the cash:2thumb: I will post on here if/when it goes ahead.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> I just have to go on some courses to back my ability to run my own business and I should be on thelist to get the cash:2thumb: I will post on here if/when it goes ahead.


 
Would you obtain the lisence to breed and sell hots in the shop?


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

LOL.....Venomous*

Hots is too American.....and I'm too lazy to type properly today. :lol2:


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> LOL.....Venomous*
> 
> Hots is too American.....and I'm too lazy to type properly today. :lol2:


There is such thing as an edit button. No idea, why I'm being such a nazi for correct forum useage...

And tbh, as there as there's locks on the vivs and the public have no access to the key, that's good. But as mentioned he has a bigger collection upstairs?


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

Most councils PSL's cover you for DWA animals without an aditional licence, But some you have to get the DWAL and PSL, in Cornwall they usualy grant it in the PSL.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Josh-sama said:


> There is such thing as an edit button. No idea, why I'm being such a nazi for correct forum useage...
> 
> And tbh, as there as there's locks on the vivs and the public have no access to the key, that's good. But as mentioned he has a bigger collection upstairs?


 
The edit button never shown up...

And if there's locks on the vivs....fair enough. But if theres nobody on the shop floor, then someone who was willing to risk a bite could quite easily get into the cages by breaking the glass?


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> Most councils PSL's cover you for DWA animals without an aditional licence, But some you have to get the DWAL and PSL, in Cornwall they usualy grant it in the PSL.


 
You're only allowed to feed DWA, or clean cages during shop closing hours, correct?


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> The edit button never shown up...
> 
> And if there's locks on the vivs....fair enough. But if theres nobody on the shop floor, then someone who was willing to risk a bite could quite easily get into the cages by breaking the glass?


 Or with most vivs and locks you could just lift the glass off of the runners.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> The edit button never shown up...
> 
> And if there's locks on the vivs....fair enough. But if theres nobody on the shop floor, then someone who was willing to risk a bite could quite easily get into the cages by breaking the glass?


Because in the middle of the day, during open hours, no doubt with CCTV, someone will punch a glass window... Sorry seems a bit silly.

I mean I can agree with that outside of shop hours, breaking in and it serves themselves right!


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> Or with most vivs and locks you could just lift the glass off of the runners.


 
A totally pathetic, and un-necesary risk. I wouldnt risk my life, and total embarrassment for just a few quid...thats for sure. (OBviously more then a few quid...but you get my point) lol


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> You're only allowed to feed DWA, or clean cages during shop closing hours, correct?


 I may be wrong but I doubt this would apply if you have a seperate room which was why I intend to make a glass room so I could have the best of both worlds.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Josh-sama said:


> Because in the middle of the day, during open hours, no doubt with CCTV, someone will punch a glass window... Sorry seems a bit silly.
> 
> I mean I can agree with that outside of shop hours, breaking in and it serves themselves right!


 
Some people will do anything.

I have no sympathy if somebody gets bit through being selfish and trying to rob someone elses hard earned collection.

I would laugh my :censor: off if a thieve got tagged by a DWA, because he/she was thinking of himself/herself instead of someone else.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> Some people will do anything.
> 
> I have no sympathy if somebody gets bit through being selfish and trying to rob someone elses hard earned collection.
> 
> I would laugh my :censor: off if a thieve got tagged by a DWA, because he/she was thinking of himself/herself instead of someone else.


 Unfortunately you would still be liable.....


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

SW-morelia said:


> Unfortunately you would still be liable.....


 
Thats the bad thing about the law....The criminals are never at fault for the accidents they have while commiting a crime!! It really :censor: me off!!!


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

This raises a interesting point......If someone whilst attempting to steal a DWAL animal got taged in the shop could they sue the shop owner ? I only ask as many years a go someone close to me:whistling2:Beat seven sorts of crap out a thief who they caught red handed climbing in though their window, said person got done for assault whilst the low life scum bag got off rather lightly..

sorry I digress.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

AZUK said:


> This raises a interesting point......If someone whilst attempting to steal a DWAL animal got taged in the shop could they sue the shop owner ? I only ask as many years a go someone close to me:whistling2:Beat seven sorts of crap out a thief who they caught red handed climbing in though their window, said person got done for assault whilst the low life scum bag got off rather lightly..
> 
> sorry I digress.


Yes as criminals are still members of the public and you didn't secure your dwal safe or well enough...


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

AZUK said:


> This raises a interesting point......If someone whilst attempting to steal a DWAL animal got taged in the shop could they sue the shop owner ? I only ask as many years a go someone close to me:whistling2:Beat seven sorts of crap out a thief who they caught red handed climbing in though their window, said person got done for assault whilst the low life scum bag got off rather lightly..
> 
> sorry I digress.


 
Yes....VERY highly aswell.....If a member of the public gets tagged by a DWA animal thats in the shop...thief or no thief. The shop owner will get the book thrown at them badly, and they will be in a lot of trouble. This is unfortunate, as I believe if you comit a crime....You should deal with the consequences.


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Thought as much 
Pete at Reptilezone in Bristol has the right idea, it's invite or appointment only to the venomous room.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

AZUK said:


> Thought as much
> Pete at Reptilezone in Bristol has the right idea, it's invite or appointment only to the venomous room.


 
Certainly will limit the amount of people in there, so the risks of a bite will be low if one of the animals are removed from the enclosure.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Certainly will limit the amount of people in there, so the risks of a bite will be low if one of the animals are removed from the enclosure.


Risks for bites are still there. Doesn't matter how many people are there, there's always that risk.


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## salvatoruk (Apr 28, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> if theres nobody on the shop floor, then someone who was willing to risk a bite could quite easily get into the cages by breaking the glass?


That is the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum in a long while, possibly ever.

To answer your question glass is breakable yes and if someone chose to do so they could strike it with force (possibly with a blunt object) and it would most probably shatter giving the said person access to the otherside of the glass. This rule applies for glass in other places incase you're interested- shops, cars, houses etc.
On the subject of risking a bite anyone who fancies this must understand there are many other things you can do beside this to prove how stupid you are such as playing on train tracks and jumping infront of high speed traffic.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

salvatoruk said:


> On the subject of risking a bite anyone who fancies this must understand there are many other things you can do beside this to prove how stupid you are such as playing on train tracks and jumping infront of high speed traffic.


 
LOL! True that


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

pythondave82 said:


> I'd like to leave my_ D. polylepis_ in my car, unlocked, so as the b*****d who broke into it a couple of weeks ago paid his late ancestors a well deserved early visit.


 
A good friend of mine has been known to keep a snake trap box on the rear seat of his Land Rover with the trap door open and a King Cobra coiled up on top of the box...... It would make a person think twice about breaking into the vehicle....... and the plastic model is good enough to fool most people.:mrgreen:


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

PDR said:


> A good friend of mine has been known to keep a snake trap box on the rear seat of his Land Rover with the trap door open and a King Cobra coiled up on top of the box...... It would make a person think twice about breaking into the vehicle....... and the plastic model is good enough to fool most people.:mrgreen:


:lol2:


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Unfortunately you would still be liable.....


Out of interest, would you be liable if say someone broke into your home and managed to break all the safey precautions you have in place despite meeting the reqirements for owning a DWA license?


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

AZUK said:


> This raises a interesting point......If someone whilst attempting to steal a DWAL animal got taged in the shop could they sue the shop owner ? *I only ask as many years a go someone close to me:whistling2:Beat seven sorts of crap out a thief who they caught red handed climbing in though their window, said person got done for assault whilst the low life scum bag got off rather lightly..*
> 
> sorry I digress.


 Yes but that law changed a couple of years ago and now you can use '_necessary means'_ to get them off your property which means you can hit them as long as you do not continue to do so when they are down.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

stucoady said:


> Out of interest, would you be liable if say someone broke into your home and managed to break all the safey precautions you have in place despite meeting the reqirements for owning a DWA license?


 I think you may get a fine which would most probably be covered by your insurance (if you are legaly keeping) but I cannot see legal action taking place.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> I think you may get a fine which would most probably be covered by your insurance (if you are legaly keeping) but I cannot see legal action taking place.


 
If a thief gets tagged....it could jephardise the hobby couldn't it? A member of the public getting bit could probably raise some discussions with the government.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> If a thief gets tagged....it could jephardise the hobby couldn't it? A member of the public getting bit could probably raise some discussions with the government.


 Yes it could but personaly the person whos collection it is would not get in much trouble, it is not as if they asked someone to rob them. How is anyone going to blame them when they have obtained a licence,got insurance and taken precautions.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> Yes it could but personaly the person whos collection it is would not get in much trouble, it is not as if they asked someone to rob them. How is anyone going to blame them when they have obtained a licence,got insurance and taken precautions.


 
True....It would certainly light discussions with all the knobheads who are trying to get the hobby banned.


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## Jack W (Feb 9, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Yes....VERY highly aswell.....If a member of the public gets tagged by a DWA animal thats in the shop...thief or no thief. The shop owner will get the book thrown at them badly, and they will be in a lot of trouble. This is unfortunate, as I believe if you comit a crime....You should deal with the consequences.


 
No they wouldn't. There would probably be an investigation in to whether the shop had appropriate safety procedures, but if they did they wouldn't legally be liable for anything injure as they had the correct protocols in place. They would not criminally be in a lot of trouble.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jack W said:


> No they wouldn't. There would probably be an investigation in to whether the shop had appropriate safety procedures, but if they did they wouldn't legally be liable for anything injure as they had the correct protocols in place. They would not criminally be in a lot of trouble.


 
The insurance company wouldn't be happy bunnies....i imagine a wet bite costs a lot of money for the treatment.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> The insurance company wouldn't be happy bunnies....i imagine a wet bite costs a lot of money for the treatment.


potentially 6 figures


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> The insurance company wouldn't be happy bunnies....i imagine a wet bite costs a lot of money for the treatment.


It may cost a lot but that why we have a National Health Service so it comes out of the public purse not your own!


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> The insurance company wouldn't be happy bunnies....i imagine a *wet bite* costs a lot of money for the treatment.


What the hell is a “wet bite”?:roll2::roll2::roll2:
In over 40 years of snake keeping I’ve never heard anyone come out with an expression like that :roll:
I guess you are working on the assumption that if there are “dry bites” the opposite must be a “wet bite”:hmm::whistling2:


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

PDR said:


> What the hell is a “wet bite”?:roll2::roll2::roll2:
> In over 40 years of snake keeping I’ve never heard anyone come out with an expression like that :roll:
> I guess you are working on the assumption that if there are “dry bites” the opposite must be a “wet bite”:hmm::whistling2:


 
Yes..

I shall be more specific....A bite which is followed by an Envenomation


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

slippery42 said:


> It may cost a lot but that why we have a National Health Service so it comes out of the public purse not your own!


 
True...I do feel sorry for the likes of the States, in that snake keepers have to pay for their own treatment.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

PDR said:


> What the hell is a “wet bite”?:roll2::roll2::roll2:
> In over 40 years of snake keeping I’ve never heard anyone come out with an expression like that :roll:
> I guess you are working on the assumption that if there are “dry bites” the opposite must be a “wet bite”:hmm::whistling2:


Paul, I'm sure I've seen a little note on your office door that says "Here is what to do when I receive a wet bite" - I'll not comment on the bit talking about using the 'cut and suck method'

*ONLY JOKING GUYS!!!*

Dave


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

LOL you feel sorry for the States ha ha ha ha ha ha
What about us poor Africans that get bit trying to cook dinner, living miles from a hospital, and most often end up having to walk there? 

Yeah..... poor Americans. Life's tough


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ViperLover stop posting please!


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

mad martin said:


> LOL you feel sorry for the States ha ha ha ha ha ha
> What about us poor Africans that get bit trying to cook dinner, living miles from a hospital, and most often end up having to walk there?
> 
> Yeah..... poor Americans. Life's tough


 
ARGHHHHHHHH DAMMIT! I was typing a rather long post and accidently hit the wrong key which closed the :censor: window!!!!!!!!!!

Its unfortunate that this happens....I feel that the MEDC's should quit their thoughtless greed and build more medical facilities in these countrys....Screw the recession. Some people barely have enough money if any at all to eat, drink clean water and put a secure roof over their head for a day!!

I feel that most people in Africa see a snake, and automatically assume it as dangerous without positive Identification. This is good, as atleast they know if the animal tagged them, depending on which species it is that they aren't going to get bit and die.

However...I have heard some people....And in most cases worldwide kill snakes because they see them as dangerous..I don't like that idea....And trying to kill a snake could probably get you tagged anyway so people should just leave the animal about it's business!

I think, as along with providing clean water etc...that we should educate people about dangerous animals in their home countrys and teach them how to safely remove a Venomous reptile...and possibly donate snake handling equipment to villages so as the people who have been trained, can safely deal with the animal and avoid being bitten. Ofcourse, sometimes bites may occur....But if every economically developed country helped....then more medical facilities and trained staff could assist the problem!


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

mad martin said:


> LOL you feel sorry for the States ha ha ha ha ha ha
> What about us poor Africans that get bit trying to cook dinner, living miles from a hospital, and most often end up having to walk there?
> 
> Yeah..... poor Americans. Life's tough


We know, we know... and we appreciate it Martin.. now go risk your life extracting 'wet snake bite' so that young James can get his puff adder and survive being nailed!
:lol2:

Edit - Actually, even if it wasn't true, it still isn't funny.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

LeviathanNI said:


> We know, we know... and we appreciate it Martin.. now go risk your life extracting 'wet snake bite' so that young James can get his puff adder and survive being nailed!
> :lol2:
> 
> Edit - Actually, even if it wasn't true, it still isn't funny.


:lol2:

I am not getting a Puff Adder yet! Or no DWA for that matter untill later on....Funny guy haha.

Cheeky bugger


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

PDR said:


> What the hell is a “wet bite”?:roll2::roll2::roll2:
> In over 40 years of snake keeping I’ve never heard anyone come out with an expression like that :roll:
> I guess you are working on the assumption that if there are “dry bites” the opposite must be a “wet bite”:hmm::whistling2:


The opposite of a Dry Bite ?................. to much TV .me thinks :gasp:


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## NINJATURTLETOM (Sep 1, 2009)

Do you know where the closest shop to us is viper lover that holds dwas coz i also live in Southampton!


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

> However...I have heard some people....And in most cases worldwide kill snakes because they see them as dangerous..I don't like that idea....And trying to kill a snake could probably get you tagged anyway so people should just leave the animal about it's business!


In a world where a venomous snake disappears when you switch the telly off, that theory makes sense. Here, it is a dream at best.
You need understanding. These people have a really hard life, even basic things like running water is not always available. Almost every family has lost a family member from a snakebite. Hospitals are far, and often the treatment is sub par. 
You say leave the animal about its business. If you live in a house lighted by candlelight, and a large Cobra enters the house, you teling me you and your folks will just leave it to go about its business?




> I feel that most people in Africa see a snake, and automatically assume it as dangerous without positive Identification. This is good, as atleast they know if the animal tagged them, depending on which species it is that they aren't going to get bit and die.


And dry bites? Not everyone has access to a library or a telly to i.d. a snake. And they certainly will not waste hard earned money to buy a field guide. They are raised that snakes are dangerous and need to be avoided at all costs. If a snake enters a house it is a dead snake. 



> I think, as along with providing clean water etc...that we should educate people about dangerous animals in their home countrys and teach them how to safely remove a Venomous reptile...and possibly donate snake handling equipment to villages so as the people who have been trained, can safely deal with the animal and avoid being bitten. Ofcourse, sometimes bites may occur....But if every economically developed country helped....then more medical facilities and trained staff could assist the problem!


And put the snake where? Do yourself a favour and ask WW how many Saw Scale Vipers you can find around a village in, say, Kenya. Let me tell you, its more than one or two. 
As to hospital equipment etc. Do you know how much money already goes into malaria, Sleeping Sickness, landmine victims etc. Snake bite is certainly not a top priority.
Then on education. You wil never be able to take away the thousands of years of superstitions that go with snakes. Not ever. 

You are young, and you feel you have thought it through, but you haven't. Your experience on my continent is limited at best. Read, learn, ask. 
Can I give you some advice? Never assume that what you read on a particular subject is always fact. Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups. When you have a subject, come here and ask that if what you read has basis for fact or not as opposed to letting your mouth just run. 



> We know, we know... and we appreciate it Martin.. now go risk your life extracting 'wet snake bite' so that young James can get his puff adder and survive being nailed!


Mean........ but funny


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

NINJATURTLETOM said:


> Do you know where the closest shop to us is viper lover that holds dwas coz i also live in Southampton!


No I don't mate....This is why I asked in a thread I posted.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

mad martin said:


> In a world where a venomous snake disappears when you switch the telly off, that theory makes sense. Here, it is a dream at best.
> You need understanding. These people have a really hard life, even basic things like running water is not always available. Almost every family has lost a family member from a snakebite. Hospitals are far, and often the treatment is sub par.
> You say leave the animal about its business. If you live in a house lighted by candlelight, and a large Cobra enters the house, you teling me you and your folks will just leave it to go about its business?
> 
> ...


Fair point...I can see where you come from on a candlelit hut, and a large cobra entering...

How many Sawscale Vipers are crawling around villages in Kenya?


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Fair point...I can see where you come from on a candlelit hut, and a large cobra entering...
> 
> *How many Sawscale Vipers are crawling around villages in Kenya*?


 
43, but only on Thursdays:lol2:


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> ViperLover stop posting please!


That's rather blunt. :lol2:

Viper, you're eager (Much like me!) but a bit overeager and babbling a load of bull and making you seem like a _jive turkey_. (Yes, I'm your age too.)


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

stuartdouglas said:


> 43, but only on thursdays:lol2:


 
lol!!


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

Are you still intending on keeping non-dwa for a while viperlover? Do you know what you are going to get yet?


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Jczreptiles said:


> Are you still intending on keeping non-dwa for a while viperlover? Do you know what you are going to get yet?


 
Yes...

After reading the posts from Paul, and Mark time and time again.....It has shaken me up to be honest.....I don't want to be the statistic of a snakebite death......I want to become experienced, and train....Also I love all snakes, so keeping non-dwa is an added bonus as I am doing what I find facinating while I learn.

I'm hoping to visit a reptile shop in Shirley over the weekend....I hope to have a hold of a couple animals to have a look at their temperments to see what attracts my fancy.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

Most people say corns are a good first snake but one of my first snakes was a CRB and I still have one now that I believe to be gravid.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Josh-sama said:


> Viper, you're eager


Ive never heard it called that before:lol2:


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

leecb0 said:


> Ive never heard it called that before:lol2:


Heard what? 

I was serious though.


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