# Culling pinkies



## JUJU (Aug 16, 2007)

When mice babies are born some breeders cull the males out of the litters, whats the best way to cull, didn't think I would ever ask this question.


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

co2 chamber gas them


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## Carol (Aug 2, 2007)

*Hi*

Hi

The best way is if they are new born is to freeze them, I would not co2 them because they can hold there breathe, it's just in case there mother rolls on them when they are first born.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Freezing is NOT an acceptable way to cull animals, although I suspect it is heavily used. As mentioned above, a CO2 chamber is a good way to go. Mammals are particularly susceptible to CO2, and so it is quick and painless.

Andy


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> Freezing is NOT an acceptable way to cull animals, although I suspect it is heavily used. As mentioned above, a CO2 chamber is a good way to go. Mammals are particularly susceptible to CO2, and so it is quick and painless.
> 
> Andy


Pinkies have a high resistance to hypoxia and it can take up to 20 minutes to kill them using CO2.

My guess is that most people using CO2 would assume that it kills pinkies just as quickly as it does older rodents. They'd then remove a lethargic pinkie from the CO2 chamber after a minute or two and proceed to actually kill it by freezing afterall!

A quick flick on the back of the head is how I kill off pinkies.

IACUC Policies - Use of CO2


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## EP1 (Jun 27, 2009)

Co2 is no good for pinkies thay hold there breathin case there mom rolls on them the best way is a flick on the back of the head its quick you can use co2 when thay are older


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Quick flick to the head is how I do it, you can tell by the change in skin colour in a few mins that they are indeed dead.


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## candyazz (Jan 14, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> Freezing is NOT an acceptable way to cull animals, although I suspect it is heavily used. As mentioned above, a CO2 chamber is a good way to go. Mammals are particularly susceptible to CO2, and so it is quick and painless.
> 
> Andy


think u will find that the co2 is not acceptable way as mentions they can hold breath and it takes alot longer 

flick to the back of head and freeze when dead


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## bradly (May 13, 2007)

Flick to the back of the head!? As in an actual flick as if you were flicking a sly or a crumb?


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## bradly (May 13, 2007)

Except of course I meant flicking a fly not a sly. Leave those sly's alone.


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## cbarnes1987 (Feb 2, 2010)

I agree with the co2 being pointless from what a few people have told me... Not trying to get banned but shouldnt a mod be more knowledgable?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

cbarnes1987 said:


> I agree with the co2 being pointless from what a few people have told me.


CO2 does take longer, and if you try to use it the way you'd use it with an adult mouse, you'll fail.

However, it is STILL possible to use it for pinky/fuzzy mice - it does take longer to cause _death_, but causes anaesthesia/unconsciousness just as humanely. 

Given that I leave my mice/rats in the chamber until they start going cold, leaving pinks in long enough to make sure they're actually deceased and not just deeply anaesthetised is no hardship.


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

bradly said:


> Flick to the back of the head!? As in an actual flick as if you were flicking a sly or a crumb?


Yep, hard flick, tap/knock against a hard surface. Any form of a blow to the head, when only a day or two old it is very effective. Just time consuming when you have loads to do.


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## Cornsnakeinthemirror (Jun 12, 2011)

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but, freezing pinkies is inhumane. The water in their bodies expands as it freezes causing unimaginable pain to the poor animal!


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## Jono_187 (Aug 24, 2009)

flick to the head works,sux doing it though but its quick.


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

to be fair i just pop them in an container with plenty of holes in pop that in side the main chamber 

so while im doing the sub / adults i can do them all in one go


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Cornsnakeinthemirror said:


> I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but, freezing pinkies is inhumane. The water in their bodies expands as it freezes causing unimaginable pain to the poor animal!


Popping them in the freezer actually makes them hypothermic very quickly and they would be dead before they actually froze.


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

snakewhisperer said:


> Popping them in the freezer actually makes them hypothermic very quickly and they would be dead before they actually froze.


I'm not convinced on this and see no reason to take the risk. Too many times people resort to the freezer or use C02 incorrectly because it's hands-off and out of sight is out of mind. Would you like to be that freezing cold even for a few minutes before you die? You can hardly call it humane. 
I'm a big advocate for a good hard smack to the back of the head. Done right this never fails and if the animals are used to you being around them and handling them for short periods of time (which they will be if they are cleaned weekly and fed and watered daily) then there is very little stress caused to the animal in being handled for a few seconds before it is dead. 
I've seen C02 being used very incorrectly and is is not a nice way to go. Used correctly is certainly is humane but it's not quite as simple as just turning up the regulator and leaving them to die. 

Of course all of the above is personal opinion but it is one I feel very strongly about.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Twiglet said:


> I'm not convinced on this and see no reason to take the risk. Too many times people resort to the freezer or use C02 incorrectly because it's hands-off and out of sight is out of mind. Would you like to be that freezing cold even for a few minutes before you die? You can hardly call it humane.
> I'm a big advocate for a good hard smack to the back of the head. Done right this never fails and if the animals are used to you being around them and handling them for short periods of time (which they will be if they are cleaned weekly and fed and watered daily) then there is very little stress caused to the animal in being handled for a few seconds before it is dead.
> I've seen C02 being used very incorrectly and is is not a nice way to go. Used correctly is certainly is humane but it's not quite as simple as just turning up the regulator and leaving them to die.
> 
> Of course all of the above is personal opinion but it is one I feel very strongly about.


The problem with most peoples "personal opinions" is that they are clouded by emotive, human perspective thought.
As an experiment I put eight pinkies into a plastic tub and into my small chest freezer. I checked them after two and a half minutes and only two were still moving (barely). After four minutes they were all dead and none were frozen. 
As long as they are not put in a super fast-freeze freezer I think this would be typical of what would happen. 
Hypothermia is apparently a euphoric state before death but I'm not sure they are developed enough to fully appreciate this:whistling2:


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## Kotori (Jul 3, 2011)

http://www.butina.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/images/articles/cabon_dioxide.pdf
According to that article, there are 3 stages of anaethesia, and once an animal is in the 1-2 stage, it can't feel pain, though it isn't dead and could return to normal.

So I suppose if you could tell a pinky is in the 2nd stage,(Which would be unconciousness) than freezing would be humane, right?


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## geckocider (Nov 22, 2010)

ok, I want to cull 'pinkies' for my baby bosc... at the moment I can't flick so I use a spoon but as my bosc gets bigger he'll want bigger multi's

At what age can I use a gas chamber so it is humane?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

geckocider said:


> ok, I want to cull 'pinkies' for my baby bosc... at the moment I can't flick so I use a spoon but as my bosc gets bigger he'll want bigger multi's
> 
> At what age can I use a gas chamber so it is humane?


I have used a CO2 chamber for pinks - although it takes longer, the pinkies don't behave in a way indicating they're distressed by the procedure. 

Any particular reason you're giving an insectivore enough vertebrate prey to be needing to breed your own, or is it that he's basically getting "spares" from pet snakes?


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