# Response to Reptile Pet Markets in the EU



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Terrarium Fairs and Terrarium Keeping in the European Union

_The formal response to:_

Amphibian and Reptile Pet Markets in the EU: an Investigation and Assessment” (2012) by
Phillip C. ARENA, Catrina STEEDMAN & Clifford WARWICK

[The English version starts on page 33]


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Having only read around a third of this so far, from what I can tell it appears to be a well rounded, proportionate, critical analysis in response to the recent paper by Arena, Steedman and Warwick, that cites sufficient truly scientific evidence in support of its arguments. Should the reader wish to do so, there is sufficient evidence within the citations to support the position of the authors and for those of us who want it in a straightforward style, this response gives us just that.

This paper is written to show the evolution and positive effects of terrarium keeping over the last 20 years or so and how the position of radical animal welfare and animal rights organisations are less than genuine and scientific in their approach.

It more or less does what a number of us have been suggesting we try to collectively pull together to show the facts as they actually are, not as the animal rights activists wish people to interpret them.
Woooohooooo.... way to go!!!! : victory: :no1:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Thanks for the link Chris.

It's a shame that the likes of Clifford and Elaine will ignore all the facts presented here and simply continue with their lies, mistruths and pseudoscience.

Hopefully however, this paper will at least show some of the important, government based 'fence sitters' that the diatribe has been exposed as the drivel that it was.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Great read. Very thorough and factual. :2thumb:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Just read most of it, as i've ran out of time to finish it. A very well compiled response that will hopefully help neutralise some of the damge done by the above mentioned article. I do feel that we should continue to try and publish our side of the story. 

There are some of us that are planning to undertake some large scale research in this area to try and help destroy some of the myths that are thrown around. 

Thanks for posting Chris

Jay


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Still reading through this. There are some real gems in here :rotfl:


> The by all means demanding task of assessing the
> well-being of reptiles and amphibians from visual clues,
> which ARENA et al. do not think the on-site state veterinarians and veterinarians in general are capable of, is
> thus to be achieved by them by observing several animals
> ...


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

bothrops said:


> Thanks for the link Chris.
> 
> It's a shame that the likes of Clifford and Elaine will ignore all the facts presented here and simply continue with their lies, mistruths and pseudoscience.
> 
> Hopefully however, this paper will at least show some of the important, government based 'fence sitters' that the diatribe has been exposed as the drivel that it was.


For fanatics ‘scientific facts’ _are_ there own personal opinion, so of course they will ignore it. However, the document was not written for them it was produced for the decision makes. A document has been presented calming to be an “independent scientific publication” looking at the issue of reptile shows across the EU; another document has been submitted in response. The authorities can now evaluate the contents of both documents and draw there own conclusions. I am confident that anyone reading both documents will be able to make an informed opinion and have a better understanding of what are the issues.


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hhmmmm.... wonder what the RSPCA will make of it? :yeahright:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Janine00 said:


> Hhmmmm.... wonder what the RSPCA will make of it? :yeahright:


Considering the independent party walking around the donny show was ex RSPCA then I would imagine it would hold up with them.

Thanks for the link, made a very interesting, informative read. Nice to see it not as biased as the APA one, from my limited experience of our shows it was very accurate and factual :2thumb:


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Janine00 said:


> Hhmmmm.... wonder what the RSPCA will make of it? :yeahright:


Not much I expect! A Freedom of Information Request served on a certain council in the northern part of the country uncovered information that the RSPCA are still opposed to shows!`


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Why am I not surprised???!?!??!?!!!!! :whistling2:


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