# Energy Costs forcing people to give up keeping Reptiles



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

BBC News Item shows the impact on rising energy costs for reptiles kept in the UK


> She handed over Ziggy to the National Centre for Reptile Welfare (NCRW) in Tonbridge, Kent, which has seen a surge in the number of snakes and other reptiles being handed in.
> Director Chris Newman said more reptiles were left with the centre in the first three months of 2022 than in the whole of 2021.
> 
> In Wolverhampton, in the West Midlands, the charity the Proteus Reptile Trust, has also seen a spike in the number of reptiles being handed in. It has also seen a rise in pets being dumped in cardboard boxes and outside pet shops.
> Amy Taranaski, centre co-ordinator said: "We can only take so many reptiles in as we have limited funding. Our big concern is what happens to these reptiles when we cannot help."


Worrying times


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

It was only a matter of time.
I suspect that dog rescue centres will be having the same thing.


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## Saladmander (12 mo ago)

Not to say people aren't struggling, but is a 75w bulb or a 15w heat mat on a stat really going to push that many over the edge?
People are always going to find any excuse to give up pets. Always people that are going to panic and make knee jerk reactions - just think of the madness of stockpiling toilet paper and hand sanitiser at the beginning of lockdown


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

ian14 said:


> It was only a matter of time.
> I suspect that dog rescue centres will be having the same thing.


So distressing.
I heard there was an upsurge in dogs/puppies being rehomed when people went from working from home due to COVID, and going back to office working. 
I can’t reconcile that.
It is indeed wonderful to have a doggy companion when working at home, but dismaying to think of taking on then giving up a family member………
Given the sheer cost of puppies during this period, you would think people would have the finances for doggy day care.


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## Saladmander (12 mo ago)

The dog situation is particularly dire! Just scanning the news for the amount of people (children!) that have been killed or otherwise attacked by dogs recently, fhr numbers are terrifying.
Surely it must be linked to dog prices rocketing during lockdown, which encouranged everybody and their neighbour to breed their dogs and cash in, with little regard to health, temperament or the ability to properly socialise...


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Saladmander said:


> Not to say people aren't struggling, but is a 75w bulb or a 15w heat mat on a stat really going to push that many over the edge?


True... but it doesn't matter if you are running a 75w heater or 15w mat.... the cost of running it has increased by around 54%, with another similar hike planned for October making it twice as costly to run than the winter of last year. Granted it is a bit of an over reaction when you consider even at todays prices, a 75w lamp on a dimmer stat is likely to cost around £7.50 a month to run, but these days most of us tend to have more than one reptile and reptiles that don't do well on a low wattage lamp or 15w heat mat. I guess it also comes down to the individuals personal circumstances. If you are on a fixed low income or state benefits or pension and have no means to increase that, then you may be looking at areas where you can cut down your consumption or energy, and if saving £7.50 a month by getting rid of your cornsnake means freeing up that money for other things then people will do it.

I must admit this has more of an impact on people who use individual vivs to keep their collection, where as those who heat a dedicated snake room and use racks will still use the same amount of electricity regardless if how many snakes they have. I'm running an experiment to see if I can run two, possibly three vivs in a stack without direct heat, which would reduce my energy consumption by £20 - £30 pm.

Have you also noticed the increase in the use of RFUK's classified section, with people joining purely to post up adds for whole collections...


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Saladmander said:


> The dog situation is particularly dire! Just scanning the news for the amount of people (children!) that have been killed or otherwise attacked by dogs recently, fhr numbers are terrifying.
> Surely it must be linked to dog prices rocketing during lockdown, which encouranged everybody and their neighbour to breed their dogs and cash in, with little regard to health, temperament or the ability to properly socialise...


Late last year we took on a rescue dog from Battersea, a 15 month old German Shepard. He was purchased form a breeder (with papers) in the summer of 2020, and thus a lockdown dog. His owners (so we were told) isolated due to their health so the dog was "trained" to use the garden when needing the toilet, and thus wasn't socialised with humans or other dogs. So we had our work cut out post lockdown. He had to learn how to interact with other dogs, and often didn't know what their body language meant, such as a full on submission... He began to enjoy the integration with other dogs, and also to trust humans and understand that not everyone is comfortable with 40kg of large GSD bounding towards them when he wants to play. 

I knew keeping him was going to be challenging financially given I'm on a fixed income, and that was before the situation we find ourselves in now with huge bills for energy, fuel and food. I'm not the sort of person who would return him to a rescue centre, I made that commitment, and I need him in my life as much as he needs me.

As for dog attacks... just media. One week it will be dog attacks in the news, next week it will be the number of deaths through drunk or drugged drivers, or food thefts from supermarkets as people can't afford to eat....Once one comes to light they dredge for more.


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## frogeyed (Nov 8, 2012)

Malc said:


> Late last year we took on a rescue dog from Battersea, a 15 month old German Shepard. He was purchased form a breeder (with papers) in the summer of 2020, and thus a lockdown dog. His owners (so we were told) isolated due to their health so the dog was "trained" to use the garden when needing the toilet, and thus wasn't socialised with humans or other dogs. So we had our work cut out post lockdown. He had to learn how to interact with other dogs, and often didn't know what their body language meant, such as a full on submission... He began to enjoy the integration with other dogs, and also to trust humans and understand that not everyone is comfortable with 40kg of large GSD bounding towards them when he wants to play.
> 
> I knew keeping him was going to be challenging financially given I'm on a fixed income, and that was before the situation we find ourselves in now with huge bills for energy, fuel and food. I'm not the sort of person who would return him to a rescue centre, I made that commitment, and I need him in my life as much as he needs me.
> 
> As for dog attacks... just media. One week it will be dog attacks in the news, next week it will be the number of deaths through drunk or drugged drivers, or food thefts from supermarkets as people can't afford to eat....Once one comes to light they dredge for more.


Regarding the 75w lamp scenario, my good wife has just informed me that food banks are now asking for food to by donated that doesn't require cooking, as people now cannot afford to use gas or electric to have hot meals.
I think that things are worse in some quarters than we realize.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

frogeyed said:


> Regarding the 75w lamp scenario, my good wife has just informed me that food banks are now asking for food to by donated that doesn't require cooking, as people now cannot afford to use gas or electric to have hot meals.
> *I think that things are worse in some quarters than we realize.*


I'll be open to some extent here.... 

I have a small mortgage by todays standard, most people pay more per month for their car repayments. I'm also on a fixed low income. Other than domestic bills and insurances the only "luxury" I had until recently was Amazon prime. I have a 22 year old Volvo that is only used once a week to pop down to ASDA to do the weekly shop. The combined electricity and gas repayments after the increase left me ten quid short to pay the mortgage. It left no money for other utility bills, insurance payment, petrol or food.

The biggest demand on electric is the heating in the 10 vivariums, half have 150w ceramics, one a 15w heat mat, and the other four 100w ceramics, all on pulse stats. The market is already flooded with proven breeder Royals, and it upsets me to think that snakes I've had for 14 years or more (although I've been in the hobby 35+ years) would have to go.

I'm not going to go into details, but the matter has since been resolved. Whilst the solution isn't ideal, for my circumstances it's a way out and allows me to sleep at night and not have to worry about loosing the house or putting food on the table. I'm not going to go into details, but I feel that energy companies have been lent on by government to "do more" for customers in financial difficulties, so are more obliging in negotiations. 

Sometime pride stops people asking for help, by by doing so we might see a lot more deaths this coming winter, especially the old who end up in the same position trying to pay this unrealistic, unprecedented increases and having to make the choice to heat or to eat...


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Malc, that was very candid of you, and encouraging to others 🤜 🤛

There are definitely a lot of people feeling the pinch, and it is good idea to ask and find out about rights and entitlements. I gather there are numerous benefits (totalling millions) and supports which go unclaimed by those eligible, but just don’t know about it, so it definitely is worth looking into further.


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## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

We are lucky ATM. Our gas & electric bills are fixed till Feb. But it will be hard once that ends.

We have several snakes & geckos in which I plan to keep, no matter what.

I'm on a low income but hubby has the main earnings. But looking at what I get, I can see why people are struggling. Minimum wage should account for bills to be paid, but it doesn't!

I've enjoyed reading through this thread!


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Swindinian said:


> Malc, that was very candid of you, and encouraging to others 🤜 🤛
> 
> There are definitely a lot of people feeling the pinch, and it is good idea to ask and find out about rights and entitlements. I gather there are numerous benefits (totalling millions) and supports which go unclaimed by those eligible, but just don’t know about it, so it definitely is worth looking into further.


Cheers, I wanted to provide a personal perspective from someone in "that boat" without going into too much personal detail.

With regards to benefits, this time round the government helped those in receipt of state benefits, and low incomes. However I wonder how many will actually use the £650 uplift and £400 grant to reduce their energy bills or waste it on beer, **** and a new iphone contract. It does make me laugh when the news reports finds a single mum (often not white so as to be politically correct) who is in rented accommodation and struggling to make ends meet, yet has the latest iphone in her hand and a *** between her fingers.

There is support from various sources, but often it's not clear how to get them. Like this £150 rebate paid through local councils. If you paid your council tax by direct debit it was credited direct into the same bank account the council tax is paid from. But if you pay in cash, or via standing order you have to apply for it, and that isn't widely known and then process isn't as straight forward as it could be. Also most councils have a cut off date for applications, so a lot of people could be missing out.

So far I've turned off three CHE's and haven't seen any change in the snakes behaviour. The floor of one viv is 32c caused by the heater below penetrating thorough the wood. However we've had a few warm days where the ambient air temperature in the room has been 23-24c, so can't tell what is the true effect is until the warm weather subsides. But if it means saving £20-£30 per month over the summer months then it all helps. We've also re-programmed the boiler settings so it heats the hot water for just half an hour in the mornings rather than a second half hour boost in the evening (we've not run our heating since March). Other small things can be done to save energy such as reducing the number of times the kettle is used (often I would make a drink only for someone else in the household to reboil the kettle ten minutes later). Other than the UV tube in the Baird's viv, all lighting in the remaining 9 vivs are LED, but other than that there is little else I can do to reduce the expenditure running the vivs. 

This time last year we were running two freezers and two fridges, but change in shopping habits now means just one freezer and a fridge is running. I also do my washing once a week where as it was common for the machine to be used almost daily. I do have a tumble dryer, but now washing days co-inside with decent weather so the clothes can be hung on the line outside. I hardly watch TV now, partly as there is little worth watching, having cancelled my sky package so now only receive the freeview channels. Its these small changes that added together can help to reduce energy consumption.

I've already given up my Reef tank which was well established after 10 years, but with a 200w heater, 50w for the pumps, and 160w for the lights, it was a heavy draw on the electricity. According to the electricity statement we are using 130Kw less than the same period last year, so that's almost £40 at todays rate. With regards to the statement above about the running costs of a lamp or mat, a single 150w CHE on a pulse stat will consume around 1.8kw in 24 hrs. At a typical rate form British Gas, it cost 50p per day to run it. That's £3.50 pw or £15.20 per month. I am seriously considering replacing the 150w trough ceramics in four vivs to 100w. So that would equate to a 2.4kw or a 67p saving per day, or £243 a year, so small changes can make a big difference.

[/ramble  ]


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Some helpful suggestions 👍

Apart from switching to Aldi/Lidl for bulk of food savings, and shopping around for items, the kettle and tumble drier are definitely potential money/energy savers! Check also electric power shower usage!

I bought a retractible clothes line years ago, if not a decade, and it’s still waiting to be installed in the garden, but we are using a portable hanger to dry clothes; never been a fan of tumble dryers because they can perish the elastic in clothing, but my better half is also now minimising the use of the dryer.

Reviewing the set temperature on central heating has been another subject suggested for energy/money saving. If a combo boiler central heating is set to 80 or 85’C it is sometimes feasible to reduce the working temp. I believe we lowered ours to 60’C, but as the central heating is off, have not appraised the effect. Temp output to the radiators is lowered, so can take longer to warm the home, but potentially more energy efficient, allegedly. I don’t know the implications on settlement of suspended solids within the radiators or associated impact on the pump, but worth researching further.

We currently have access to Netflix, but don’t have other tv subscriptions. I watch more on YouTube than terrestrial/free view tv.

There is a YouTube podcast from animals at home on Uromastix where the US breeder routinely switches off heat and light at irregular intervals.
This saves energy, but may, under certain circumstances have the potential to benefit some captive reptiles. 
Thinking of the odd cloudy/overcast or cooler days in the wild, and how these will interplay with ambient conditions for the resident herps in a given location.

Obviously needs careful consideration in what, when and how it could be implemented, but I think there is a potential for switching off heat and or light on occasional days which may provide some enrichment and variation to the senses, as it would alter air currents in the viv, increase the relative humidity.

Certainly would backfire if implemented such that it disrupted digestion or induced a resp infection, but that’s not to say there may not be a beneficial case for this……..?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Handy little tip with kettles. Get a decent thermos flask.
Boil the kettle, use what you need for your drink then pour the rest of the water in the flask. It will stay hot for hours, so no need to boil again when you next fancy a hot drink!
With TV, Amazon Prime is probably better than Netflix. Its cheaper, has a lot more choice, gives free next day delivery on any Prime purchase through Amazo , and also has free music, ebooks etc. £7.99 a month.


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## Bombjack (Jan 16, 2015)

Another one.








Surge in exotic pets being dumped as owners struggle to afford costs


The cost-of-living crisis is forcing exotic pet owners to abandon their animals, due to the high cost of the equipment - like lights and cages - needed to safely house them.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Bombjack said:


> Another one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Two frozen mice, which would feed a snake for a day - depending on its size - cost around £1 meaning a food bill of £365 a year.


😯 🤣 🤣 Typical Daily Mail.... can never get the facts right !!!!!!

Wait for the increase in posts from newbies.. "My Royal python won't eat.... it took its rat last night but has refused his dinner tonight... I did my research and read they needed daily meals... It was in the papers so it must be true !!"


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I have certainly been more critical of any new additions and what equipment they would need and thus increasing my energy bill.

Maybe you guys can help me - my tortoises sleep for about 18 hours of the day - granted 10 of those are during the night but that still leaves 8 hours each day when they are hiding away and the basking bulb and UV lights are blaring away 'wasting' energy. Could I substitute these with some other form of light so as not to disrupt their daily cycle, but use less energy - maybe a low cost bulb or something?


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I have certainly been more critical of any new additions and what equipment they would need and thus increasing my energy bill.
> 
> Maybe you guys can help me - my tortoises sleep for about 18 hours of the day - granted 10 of those are during the night but that still leaves 8 hours each day when they are hiding away and the basking bulb and UV lights are blaring away 'wasting' energy. Could I substitute these with some other form of light so as not to disrupt their daily cycle, but use less energy - maybe a low cost bulb or something?


I've never kept tortoises so can't really comment, but my only thoughts would be as the light is used as a heat source then anything like a LED low cost replacement won't heat the enclosure, and whilst UV LEDs suitable for use with reptiles may juts be around the corner, any such product may cost more than the savings made using them.

Not sure if it would work, but I wonder if a motion sensor would work, so as soon as they wake and walk around it turns on the lights, if they hide away it turns off. But again, if they sleep for 8 hours, that will mean the enclosure could cool down, especially in winter when the ambient room temperatures are cooler.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I am of course loathed to change anything as they seem 'happy' and are laying eggs so would be apprehensive about changing anything.


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## Bombjack (Jan 16, 2015)

Malc said:


> 😯 🤣 🤣 Typical Daily Mail.... can never get the facts right !!!!!!
> 
> Wait for the increase in posts from newbies.. "My Royal python won't eat.... it took its rat last night but has refused his dinner tonight... I did my research and read they needed daily meals... It was in the papers so it must be true !!"


My bad.I didn't have time to read so just posted it.I was going to read it later,I won't bother now.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Well that hurt.... I've just placed an order for some frozen food for the snakes...Pretty much the same I order on each occasion, 60 Weaner Rats, 20 adult mice, 20 small Rats, 10 ex layer quail. - Not far short of £140...... This time last year it would just tip over into three figures. Delivery used to be £10, now £12.99, and like food in the shops, most of the reptiles food has risen 5p or 10p an item. Obviously it's been passed down through the chain from breeder to retailer as it cost more to run the breeding facilities, and rear the animals, and the companies selling them have to pay their bills and put food on their table. But increase like this cancels out any savings made by reducing heater wattages or run times.


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## frogeyed (Nov 8, 2012)

Malc said:


> Well that hurt.... I've just placed an order for some frozen food for the snakes...Pretty much the same I order on each occasion, 60 Weaner Rats, 20 adult mice, 20 small Rats, 10 ex layer quail. - Not far short of £140...... This time last year it would just tip over into three figures. Delivery used to be £10, now £12.99, and like food in the shops, most of the reptiles food has risen 5p or 10p an item. Obviously it's been passed down through the chain from breeder to retailer as it cost more to run the breeding facilities, and rear the animals, and the companies selling them have to pay their bills and put food on their table. But increase like this cancels out any savings made by reducing heater wattages or run times.


What annoys me is that no one seems prepared to absorb some of the increases - just pass it on to the customer.
I heard yesterday that many people will be cancelling their energy direct debits and will refuse to pay.
As I say, just passing increases onto to joe public won't wash any more. 

This is the reason Walkers Courier have packed in - he cannot raise prices and his customers are not prepared to absorb some of the increases.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

frogeyed said:


> What annoys me is that no one seems prepared to absorb some of the increases - just pass it on to the customer.
> I heard yesterday that many people will be cancelling their energy direct debits and will refuse to pay.
> As I say, just passing increases onto to joe public won't wash any more.
> 
> This is the reason Walkers Courier have packed in - he cannot raise prices and his customers are not prepared to absorb some of the increases.


But that's what fuels inflation... raw material cost go up resulting in a price increase to the retailer. Retailer marks up the new cost to cover their margins, customers faced with ever increasing prices demand pay rises to cover these increases, manufactures factor in the increase along with raw materials and we go around again... at least to a point where it breaches a threshold and either the retailer stops buying so the manufacture runs into difficulties and has to lay off staff, or customers stop buying and the retailer goes out of business... either way the result is higher unemployment, and then a recession. 

It's a shame Walkers have jacked in their reptile courier business. I've not used them, but knowing there was a regular weekly service compared to the normal add to a list and when there is enough to make a run it then takes place arrangement made the logistics and shipment a lot less stressful. 

No idea what the answer is... we will see more reptiles being dumped as a result of these ever increasing energy and food bills, especially as the rescue centres are already full and struggling to cover the increase in expenses. I don't think cancelling direct debits etc with energy suppliers is the ideal way forward. From my personal experience most of the larger energy suppliers will negotiate even if it means a debt being generated, which can be cleared over an agreed amount of time by paying a little extra once prices recover, which could be a fair way off. But you still need to maintain a payment, even if it was the same as what was being paid before this sh1t hit the fan.

I'm not into politics, but the government have provided plans which, for those on low fixed income such as pensions or benefits works out to £1200. Other changes in tax and NI means those in employment also benefit. The government didn't have to do this. It's down to the individual as to how they use the cash these schemes provide.


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## frogeyed (Nov 8, 2012)

Malc said:


> But that's what fuels inflation... raw material cost go up resulting in a price increase to the retailer. Retailer marks up the new cost to cover their margins, customers faced with ever increasing prices demand pay rises to cover these increases, manufactures factor in the increase along with raw materials and we go around again... at least to a point where it breaches a threshold and either the retailer stops buying so the manufacture runs into difficulties and has to lay off staff, or customers stop buying and the retailer goes out of business... either way the result is higher unemployment, and then a recession.
> 
> It's a shame Walkers have jacked in their reptile courier business. I've not used them, but knowing there was a regular weekly service compared to the normal add to a list and when there is enough to make a run it then takes place arrangement made the logistics and shipment a lot less stressful.
> 
> ...


I agree about cancelling direct debits not necessarily the way forward. It's just people having enough and making a stand. Rest assured if more people made a stand then companies listen. 
There are fuel protesters on the M5 as we speak, only 10 I believe, probably a low number due to everyone blocking motorways in their rush to start their holidays. 
But Hey. they haven't had a holiday for 2 years - bless them !!


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## markiemark1914 (Nov 11, 2021)

Iv been on the verge of scaling down my pet's for a while because the general overheads are getting hard to deal with. It's not just the £5-£7 per 24hours period, but my own groceries are costing SO MUCH MORE this year, then my animals food going up aswell on top of it all is causing me to literally haemorrhage money now & Im bleeding to death basically! My partner of 22yrs has been very supportive so far subsidizing my electricity to some extent but he's banned me from getting any more & now & again we do argue about how sustainable my hobbies are long term now. I need my hobbies though because I am a recovering drug addict & this gives my life purpose & helps give me a reason to stay clean. But it's a real struggle now & all feels somewhat uncertain.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

markiemark1914 said:


> Do thing's we type not appear straight away?


It’s, not instant messaging, if that’s what you mean. 
you click reply, you type, then you post.
If the forum is a bit glitchy, there may be a delay.

I presume you deleted your original comments on the other post, and was wondering if it would have been read before you edited it?


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## markiemark1914 (Nov 11, 2021)

Swindinian said:


> It’s, not instant messaging, if that’s what you mean.
> you click reply, you type, then you post.
> If the forum is a bit glitchy, there may be a delay.
> 
> I presume you deleted your original comments on the other post, and was wondering if it would have been read before you edited it?


I didn't realise I'd actually posted that to be honest. I hadn't slept in a while & was tired. So I thought I had typed a comment & then deleted it before I posted it. Was it a very long quite angry & emotional comment? Iv been going through a lot this year. This has been the worst year in a decade or more for a number of reasons, so Im not myself Im afraid.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

markiemark1914 said:


> I didn't realise I'd actually posted that to be honest. I hadn't slept in a while & was tired. So I thought I had typed a comment & then deleted it before I posted it. Was it a very long quite angry & emotional comment? Iv been going through a lot this year. This has been the worst year in a decade or more for a number of reasons, so Im not myself Im afraid.


Really sorry to hear that. Posting on forums and social media, especially when we are in a vulnerable state can be a mixed blessing. I hope it helped you process your thoughts, even if you didn’t post them to the discussion.

Fatigue and sleep deprivation can make all sorts of things harder to contend with, so I hope this improves for you. 
I don’t know your circumstances, but I guess I would encourage most people to get an appointment with their G.P. about addressing the health effects of issues being contended with, and they may also be able to advise on other resources for support, whether these relate to illnesses, bereavement, debt management, benefits, or perhaps citizens advice….

There does seem to be a lot more problems surfacing, other than just balancing finances.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

This afternoon I was listening to BBC three counties radio which was discussing the current cost of living, and the presenter took a call from one woman called Emma, who was working in the NHS, living in a draughty rented accommodation and essentially broke down live on air. She hasn't turned the heating on yet for fear of getting into debt, and stated she had less than £80 to last her to the end of the month... Moments later the presenter took another call. A guy was so upset over what he had listened to that he wanted to cover her heating costs for the next three months and to use the heating as much as she wanted. The presenter bent the rules and agree to put the two in contact with each other... He wasn't a millionaire, but was comfortable. 

What was clear from the calls was that a lot of people are suffering mentally with anxiety and depression as they struggle through these times.

Have a listen here - advance to 1hr 9min to hear the stat of her call and then skip through the news to 1hr 33min in to the program

@markiemark1914 I agree with swindinian, opening up about your own situation on a public forum can be a mixed bag. Often as it's from behind the screen it's easier to let it all out. It can be therapy, you feel you can offload / rant to others without your true identity being known. But, and its dependant on the forum, it can also leave you open to hurtful comments as well, which can only make you sink deeper into that dark hole. (and yes I'm talking from experience). Go and see your GP, tell them how you feel, how your mindset is causing you sleepless nights and the anxieties you have. People have different viewpoints on medication, but it can help, and help you tackle the issues more calmly. Also talk to your energy provider if this is the main reason you're struggling. Most have crisis departments for those on low pay, pensions or benefits that are struggling, and often the resolution doesn't always mean being out onto a pay as you go meter, which doesn't help.

If it makes you feel better, in the past 6 years I've suffered an injury to my left leg (a brake and tendon damage which 5 years on still gives me trouble), lost my mother who had dementia three year ago, followed by my father in law two year back. Lost my job as a result of the injury, suffered a deep bout of depression (even almost taking my own life) and now have so much anxiety I shake at the start of the weekly shopping in ASDA . I have recently suffered a back issue, which turned out to be two prolapsed disk caused through degradation of my spine, as a result of compensating for the injury to my left leg whilst walking. The disk have damaged the femoral nerve and I have very little feeling in the front of my right leg. To add to that my marriage of 35 years came to an end a year ago.. Come June next year I have the task of selling up and finding somewhere else to live which due to the split means moving 200 mile away from my grown up children ( and whilst that is 7 months away I'm already suffering from lack of sleep and all the anxieties that go with moving house) .. and I just turned 60 in March !!

Now I'm not looking for pity or sympathy by spouting all that out... but just want to reassure you that no matter what shit life throws at you just have to get the support you need and try and get through it. Take each minute, hour, day and week at a time. Anyway typing this out has been enough for one therapy session... Try and remain positive...


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Eff me Malc! That was rather candid of you! 

One of the things I’ve often admired about you is your matter of fact approach and generous with sharing your thoughts, personal experiences, and various experimental projects - not many people do so.

I would agree about getting professional help, after all we do pay into these services to support us, and they can sometimes make all the difference.

Andy


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Andy, that's really kind of you to say that. Sometimes, as I mentioned, sharing too much, or being too open can make things worse. But on the whole passing on information or experience gained is a form of giving something back, and giving to others is a good thing. My late mother always used to say that there was no point in moaning about things, you just have to get on with it as best you can, and I think that is so true. The situation I gave about having to sell and move on next year is a prime example. 

I hope my post has helped markiemark1914 realise that whilst the world and its wife appears to be against them, and you are getting deeper and deeper into that dark hole of depression, that there are ways and means, along with other people who can throw you a ladder and help you climb out and move on. First stop is their GP who can give details of local support groups and services that can help.


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