# The start of my first Dartfrog setup



## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

This has been posted in the Habitat section too, just thought some of you guys might appreciate it as it will be more of a journal and I will take photos as much as possible to help other newbies like me (i'm sure there will be some mistakes along the way!).

This setup will eventually house either D. Azureus or D.Tinctorius.

The equipment so far ordered is :

Exo Terra 36 x 18 x 24" Vivarium
Exo Terra 36" Cabinet
Hagen GLO T5HO Canopy (2 x 39w)
Fluval 205 External Filter (I had to return the Eheim External as it wouldn't fit in the stupidly small cabinet space provided)
Lucky Reptile Pro II Thermostat
Lucky Reptile Deluxe Pro Hygrometer / Thermometer
30L Hydroleca
Eggcrate
Silicone x 2 (Black)
Expanding Foam
PVC piping

The Vivarium arrived a few days back, heres a quick snap of it :










The first job is to Fly-Proof this tank, using airline tubing down the edges of the doors, and blocking off the bottom vent with black silicone sealant.

More photos later on when its on the stand / filter in cabinet etc 

Cheers for looking

Anthony


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Vivarium on cabinet :










Airline tubing on outer and inner edges of doors :










Filter in place (not much room to spare!) :










Undecided in background materials, wether to use expanding foam / silicon/ husk or natural cork panels? Suggestions?

Cheers

Anthony


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

have a look at gorilla glue no experiance of it but have heard good things (to replace the foam) have also used rockoflex,epoxy resin and elastopur from ent(dartfrog in the uk)....good stuff.we are also new, to all this, you can find more on a similar thread to your own, dart viv build early stages,which might give you a heads up on our journey.BEST of luck stu :welcome:and shaz:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Nice! Wish I had that to work with!

Background is up to you, each has their pros and cons.

Cork - Easy to put up but expensive.

Eco earth/foam/silicone - Can shape it to your own style, not too expensive but it's a bit of work and time consuming.

Cement over polystyrene - Looks awesome but planting is tricky and it's HEAVY.

There's also clay backgrounds (water and kitty litter) - Cheap but heavy, can constantly rework it into different shapes.

Tree fern panels - easy but expensive GREAT for plants.

Coco mat - easy, cheap but doesn't look as good.

Elastopur, resin, paints etc - Never used but may look into it next time.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> have a look at gorilla glue no experiance of it but have heard good things (to replace the foam) have also used rockoflex,epoxy resin and elastopur from ent(dartfrog in the uk)....good stuff.we are also new, to all this, you can find more on a similar thread to your own, dart viv build early stages,which might give you a heads up on our journey.BEST of luck stu :welcome:and shaz:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Cheers mate, I will leave the gorilla glue for now as the expanding foam is only going to be used for the waterfall section, so seems a waste tbh.



Morgan Freeman said:


> Nice! Wish I had that to work with!
> 
> Background is up to you, each has their pros and cons.
> 
> ...


I've decided to go for the large natural cork panels available from dartfrog, these will be ordered at the end of the week along with the biovital T5 lights 

The eggcrate arrived today and has been cut to size, I just need to get some PVC tubing now and get the water in for a trial run of the filter  :



















I was in B+Q (looking for their non existent weed fabric:bash and picked up a couple of weeping fig plants, I see creeping figs are classed as PDF suitable and I wondered if these would be too?:blush: :










Oh and I also picked up 30L of orchid compost too 

Cheers

Anthony


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

best make sure its pure organic orchid soil any fertiliser will not do your froggies any good :2thumb:


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

quick question, is the silicone your planning on using safe? (e.g. aquarium safe?)


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

liamb111 said:


> quick question, is the silicone your planning on using safe? (e.g. aquarium safe?)


Yes, I purchased black aquarium silicone sealant 

Hagen Glo Canopy :



















Unsure as to wether to remove the brackets and rest directly on top of the tank or not? It will all depend on temps I suppose.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

sambridge15 said:


> best make sure its pure organic orchid soil any fertiliser will not do your froggies any good :2thumb:


Cheers for that, i'll have a check later


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

detail3r said:


> Yes, I purchased black aquarium silicone sealant


good good 

snazy lighting aswell!!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

i think your plants are ficus benjemena (spelling?) i have seen them 4 foot 5 foot high might be safe don't know, the trouble is some of these plants are so vigorous they could lift top of viv. when using foam spray with water first,this will insure your foam cures proprely as the water is the hardner,otherwise it might not fully cure and then move or crack later,sorry about shorthand ,compuer being,bloody unhelpfull.


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

the exo cabinet you got, where'd you get it from and how much you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?
just, im looking around the internet and they seem so bloody expensive...


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> i think your plants are ficus benjemena (spelling?) i have seen them 4 foot 5 foot high might be safe don't know, the trouble is some of these plants are so vigorous they could lift top of viv. when using foam spray with water first,this will insure your foam cures proprely as the water is the hardner,otherwise it might not fully cure and then move or crack later,sorry about shorthand ,compuer being,bloody unhelpfull.


I left it to dry overnight and it has now been sealed in black silicone 

I will probably leave the ficus out then, cheers.



liamb111 said:


> the exo cabinet you got, where'd you get it from and how much you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?
> just, im looking around the internet and they seem so bloody expensive...


I got it from surrey pet supplies, and it cost me £72.50, top service from them aswell 

Just 1 T5 bulb in, and a random collection of wood in the tank :










My construction materials for the waterfall :










Half filled with foam :










Expanding foam left to dry, silicone applied and coco husk covered :



















Applying the silicone and coco husk was the messiest job known to man!

Cheers

Anthony


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

you are planning on raising the egg crate off the bottom aren't you?
lol, just making sure


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looking good so far.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

liamb111 said:


> you are planning on raising the egg crate off the bottom aren't you?
> lol, just making sure


I am, 2 inch sections of uPVC piping will be used as struts underneath, giving (hopefully) enough water for the filter to flow properly and not suck in any air.



Morgan Freeman said:


> Looking good so far.


Cheers : victory:


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

cool cool 

and yeh, it is looking good so far :2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

keep at it mate looking great we await with baited breath:mf_dribble:,what is the wood?


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> keep at it mate looking great we await with baited breath:mf_dribble:,what is the wood?


Cheers mate, i'mm just waiting on the tree fern panels arriving for the back and one side of the tank, then I can hide the filter pipework, install the wood / waterfall feature and put the drainage layer in etc.

The wood I bought was this :

Great Deals on Aquarium Decorations at Zooplus: Trixie Mangrove Root

3 pack of 25cm sections for £10.99, its a chance you will get all naff shapes but luckily one turned out good, and as I was ordering the canopy at the same time (and coco huts) it seemed a good price for them: victory:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

it will be really interesting to see how our oak holds up against the mangrove root and also how the 2 different backgrounds constructed in different ways last over time on two tanks set up so close to each other.Managed to break one of my big viv doors today,idiot,only bought them yesterday, then nearly messed up cutting a replacement but got there in the end,can'twait to plant it.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

detail3r said:


> Yes, I purchased black aquarium silicone sealant
> 
> Hagen Glo Canopy :
> 
> ...



I love that canopy! How much was it and where did you get it? Can you use UV tubes in it?


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Well it turns out both the fluval external filter and eggcrate / water layer idea are useless, so thats £100 worth of equipment down the drain!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

detail3r said:


> Well it turns out both the fluval external filter and eggcrate / water layer idea are useless, so thats £100 worth of equipment down the drain!


Whys that then? and could you answer my post above thanks :notworthy:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

I got it from Zooplus, you can use biotvital full spectrum T5HO bulbs in it (it only accepts T5HO fitment), it cost me about £85 I think.

The filter is gravity fed, so that small 4 inch layer of water wasn't enough for it.

Also the design of the exo terra stand means the layer of water was flexing the cabinet top, so had to remove the eggcrate too - so just have a 3 inch layer of hydroleca in there now.

TBH with all this im fedup of it already!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

why is your gear useless ? we have watched loads set up similar to you,confused...lots of the european vivs use an external filter,though we know little as we have gone down a different route.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> why is your gear useless ? we have watched loads set up similar to you,confused...lots of the european vivs use an external filter,though we know little as we have gone down a different route.


Because the filter is unable to pull water up the intake pipe with such a low water level (as its designed for aquariums where the water level is very near the top of the tank and therefore the water level in the intake pipe only has to be pulled up a few inches, not 20 like i was attempting).

The Exo terra cabinet is a crap design, because basically the Exo vivs themselves have 4 small plastic feet in each corner, creating pressure points rather than spreading the load like a normal viv would - meaning the cabinet was visibly bowing even with just the water in there, without substrate, plants, wood etc - stupid design for you!

Im tempted to put the lot up for sale just to get rid if i'm honest (even though i'll make a substantial loss obviously).

Cheers for reading anyway

Anthony


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

I can see why this viv would bow more then others, most builds on here do not use the 3ft exo terras and tbh you hardly ever see builds using them.... when it gets to the 3ft size I think most people just go for wooden as it ends up so much cheaper

Could you not help the bowing by placing thin slats of wood underneath?


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## arwen (Jan 9, 2008)

with water features we've found the best way is to drill the bottom of the tank , place small pump in bucket or something under tank where the water collects


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

andaroo said:


> Whys that then? and could you answer my post above thanks :notworthy:


Andaroo plenty of US froggers use those hoods, they're designed for planted fish tanks and usually come with a row of T5s.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ant,we had a crap day yesterday too shaz tried to amputate one of her fingers(its the morphine she's on i'm sure) i broke one of me new glass doors,mate work through it. Today is a new day.........buddy i'm sure there are ways round your probs,.............SO difficult when ya can't see,(yes i believe exos are wrong for darts,but they are all thats available to most of us)............as far as the base goes then find a piece of ply pref. marine to support the base (put a polystyrene tile underneath so there are no pressure points to break the glass),maybe you could site a small filter tank beside the viv to alleviate your pump probs,but as i know nuffin about such things i am stabbing in the dark really,wish i could help more as you are obviously fighting with this,chin up dude ,..........Stu................somebody that give a F:censor:ck, ha now you've got to get there..........regards


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

I have added the hydroleca to the bottom of the viv, about 2 - 3 inches deep, with a bout 1inch of water sitting within it - this is correct yes? I do not need to add a drainage point?

After the failed attempt to add a water feature, I have decided to keep things simple for now, so have covered the back and sides with coco fibre panels, and will add a few branches in the near future / substrate / plants.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

i beleive, they leave a ,say 2" peace of pipe in the corner,so instead of a drainage point you have a syphon point, so removing the water up instead of down.....see chondros thread i think its a sticky if not ask her she'll set ya right


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

Chondros thread? is that her one with the dart frog viv tutorial? I have that in my favourites, one of the best dart frog builds I've seen (with yours in close second of course Soundstounite =P)


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

:blush::blush::blush::blush::blush::blush:,mate we're just beginners she's got the T shirt


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

After sacking the water feature idea off, I have now added HydroLeca, horticultural netting and some coarse orchid bark. 





































4 broms purchased and also another plant - ID please? I have no idea lol.

Also added a second T5 HO bulb and the temps on the floor are sitting at about 24 C .

Any ideas on what else to add for the substrate?

Many thanks

Anthony


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Comments, both good and bad are welcome

Many thanks

Anthony


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Looking good!:2thumb: To be honest, while I'm in awe of some of the really ambitious and complicated set-ups, I'm an old-school follower of the _Keep It Simple, Stupid!_ principle. The more technical bits you have, the more there is to go wrong and the more there is to strip down when things *do* go wrong. The frogs don't care if it's state of the art or not- they care if there are places to hide, mate, bathe, lay and eat. If you can provide all that and *still* manage to make it look good, you're ahead! This is not to detract from some of the truely amazing vivs people have shown on here, just that they are higher-maintenance then I've got time or money for.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Looking good!:2thumb: To be honest, while I'm in awe of some of the really ambitious and complicated set-ups, I'm an old-school follower of the _Keep It Simple, Stupid!_ principle. The more technical bits you have, the more there is to go wrong and the more there is to strip down when things *do* go wrong. The frogs don't care if it's state of the art or not- they care if there are places to hide, mate, bathe, lay and eat. If you can provide all that and *still* manage to make it look good, you're ahead! This is not to detract from some of the truely amazing vivs people have shown on here, just that they are higher-maintenance then I've got time or money for.


Definitely, as its my first setup i'm now glad I decided against the water feature, it would have just made things far too complicated.

Regarding the drainage layer, it currently has 2 inches of hydroleca at the bottom with 1 inch if water sitting within it - do I need to add a syphon point to prevent stagnant water developing?

Many thanks

Anthony


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> Definitely, as its my first setup i'm now glad I decided against the water feature, it would have just made things far too complicated.
> 
> Regarding the drainage layer, it currently has 2 inches of hydroleca at the bottom with 1 inch if water sitting within it - do I need to add a syphon point to prevent stagnant water developing?
> 
> ...


 
It's worth sinking a short piece of plastic pipe down through the layers in an unobtrusive corner, which you can syphon from- somewhere near the front for easy maintenance. You can cover it with a piece of bark or something when it's not in use. Given the size, water probably won't get stagnant quite as quickly as it would in a smaller tank, but that way you are covered.


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

I just fitted a plastic tube in one corner of the viv alowing me to use a syringe to remove excess water


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What Ron said. Plants make the viv anyway.

Get some ficus pumila to get that background covered, will look nassss.

Needs either leaf litter or a nice moss covering on the floor. I'd do half moss (get the stuff from pollywog) then leaf litter for foraging and springtail growth in the other half.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What Ron said. Plants make the viv anyway.
> 
> Get some ficus pumila to get that background covered, will look nassss.
> 
> Needs either leaf litter or a nice moss covering on the floor. I'd do half moss (get the stuff from pollywog) then leaf litter for foraging and springtail growth in the other half.


I will be ordering some plants and moss in the next week or so - wheres the best place? I have heard mixed reviews about plants from dartfrog.

I already planned on using moss and leaves on the floor - great minds  - I think almond leaves will be ordered. Also what moss varieties do you reccomend?

Lastly, what species would you say are most suitable for this setup? Would it strictly be larger dendrobates such as tincs and leucs?

I also intend to add an automated misting system by the end of the year.

Cheers

Anthony


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> It's worth sinking a short piece of plastic pipe down through the layers in an unobtrusive corner, which you can syphon from- somewhere near the front for easy maintenance. You can cover it with a piece of bark or something when it's not in use. Given the size, water probably won't get stagnant quite as quickly as it would in a smaller tank, but that way you are covered.





Jezza84 said:


> I just fitted a plastic tube in one corner of the viv alowing me to use a syringe to remove excess water


It will be done


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

why didnt you just get a piece of hardboard the correct size for under the tank to stop the bowing... its easy as to be honest as long as it the right height it only needs to support the middle to save the bowing?


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

ambyglam said:


> why didnt you just get a piece of hardboard the correct size for under the tank to stop the bowing... its easy as to be honest as long as it the right height it only needs to support the middle to save the bowing?


Take a look at my previous comment regarding the exo terra design and at the actual exo terras before commenting 

It has 4 plastic feet at all four corners of the tank, meaning the pressure is not spread evenly across the surface such as happens with aquariums and other vivariums, but actually creates just four localised pressure points upon which all the weight is resting. So even if I put 'a piece of hardboard' between tank and stand, the bowing would still exist, albeit to a lesser extent (and why should I when i bought the cabinet to match the vivarium which is a display tank in my living room?).

I have contacted Hagen regarding the issue, more to see what their excuse is for the poor design than anything.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I will be ordering some plants and moss in the next week or so - wheres the best place? I have heard mixed reviews about plants from dartfrog.
> 
> I already planned on using moss and leaves on the floor - great minds  - I think almond leaves will be ordered. Also what moss varieties do you reccomend?
> 
> ...


Moss is hard, so I stick to the 24 x 12 sheets from pollywog.

Dartfrog plants are ok, can be a bit hit and miss.

Tincs, leucs, terribilis, galacs, tricolor, bicolor....It's big enough for any frog but the smaller arboreal ones are a) bit trickier b) not very good in anything bigger than pairs c) will be hard to spot in that size! So I'd go for a larger terrestrial species.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh and misting systems are cool. I got annoyed with mine cos it was too nosiey (dont get the lucky reptile) but may get a better one in the future.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Oh and misting systems are cool. I got annoyed with mine cos it was too nosiey (dont get the lucky reptile) but may get a better one in the future.


I think I will go for a dartfrog basic misting system and timer tbh, just keep things nice and simple.

I will get a few plants and a few springtail cultures ordered from dartfrog in the near future then.

Is it best to get the culture started in a box separate from the viv first before adding?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I think I will go for a dartfrog basic misting system and timer tbh, just keep things nice and simple.
> 
> I will get a few plants and a few springtail cultures ordered from dartfrog in the near future then.
> 
> Is it best to get the culture started in a box separate from the viv first before adding?


Sounds good.

I just threw some woodlice from the garden in and somehow they've survived and had little babies. I'd put em straight in.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> I just threw some woodlice from the garden in and somehow they've survived and had little babies. I'd put em straight in.


So european woodlice? Are they ok with frogs?

I will collect some and add then!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I threw them in as food, but they weren't eaten and reproduced. Didn't think they'd survive the temps but they did :/


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I threw them in as food, but they weren't eaten and reproduced. Didn't think they'd survive the temps but they did :/


 Yeah, I use them as food/cleaners in most of my tanks. My frogs eat a fair number, but enough survive to be useful. I also mix in 'live' leafmould from a clean wood near where the family home was- lots of useful little beasties in it.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yeah, I use them as food/cleaners in most of my tanks. My frogs eat a fair number, but enough survive to be useful. I also mix in 'live' leafmould from a clean wood near where the family home was- lots of useful little beasties in it.


Definitely. This is a good tip.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yeah, I use them as food/cleaners in most of my tanks. My frogs eat a fair number, but enough survive to be useful. I also mix in 'live' leafmould from a clean wood near where the family home was- lots of useful little beasties in it.


Cheers for that!

Right three things :

1) Had to put an additional piece of melamine board between the tank and cabinet to lessen the bowing effect (still awaiting a response on this:censor

2) Found out the wood in my tank is actually grapevine / wood and as such is useless as it will have constant mould bloom / cycles:censor:

3) I have constructed a very basic very shallow pool of water for them, it doesn't look pretty but it does the job (I wonder if java moss would grow on the tree fern sides?) :




























Feel free to ridicule it if you like:blush:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Coco panels go mouldy after a while when wet so you should change the water area plus it doesn't look good and seems really out of place. I would just scrap it and buy an exo terra large FEEDING dish. I say feeding because the water dishes can be too deep and the feeding ones make a nice shallow pool perfect for darts.

Also needs ferns, bog wood / mopani wood that is used in aquariums


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

andaroo said:


> Coco panels go mouldy after a while when wet so you should change the water area plus it doesn't look good and seems really out of place. I would just scrap it and buy an exo terra large FEEDING dish. I say feeding because the water dishes can be too deep and the feeding ones make a nice shallow pool perfect for darts.
> 
> Also needs ferns, bog wood / mopani wood that is used in aquariums


I was thinking that regarding how out of place it looks. I will buy a large feeding dish then.

Regarding the wood, this will be bought when I find a piece I like, I think 1 large display piece of sumatran driftwood is needed.

Also regarding ferns, I will be ordering a few plants off of dartfrogs website and have some Ficus Quercifolia and tropical moss on its way from a Dendroworld member.

Also i'm tempted to order a lucky reptile humidity controller and a lucky reptile rainmaker aswell.


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## radicaldave (Sep 25, 2009)

Lucky rep water products tend to be noisy when running..


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I was thinking that regarding how out of place it looks. I will buy a large feeding dish then.
> 
> Regarding the wood, this will be bought when I find a piece I like, I think 1 large display piece of sumatran driftwood is needed.
> 
> ...


i think it looks alright m8, shame it didnt work out what you had planned i can imagine it was probably something special. bt if your going to spend money on a misting system, i would definatly reccomend the mist king system. finally got mine set up today and tested it out quiet as a mouse and super fine mist! ill post a video and some pics so you can see :2thumb:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> i think it looks alright m8, shame it didnt work out what you had planned i can imagine it was probably something special. bt if your going to spend money on a misting system, i would definatly reccomend the mist king system. finally got mine set up today and tested it out quiet as a mouse and super fine mist! ill post a video and some pics so you can see :2thumb:


I didn't think mistking shipped to the UK? Only US and canada?


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I didn't think mistking shipped to the UK? Only US and canada?


goto vivariumland mate, in poland i think it arrived to me in 5 days, very well packaged and i ordered 1 of my nozzles wrong, the guy sent me a new nozzle attactchment free of charge and also a bromeliad.

about £160 afterer converting from euros but it came with a timer and the pump is awesome


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

good stuff antyou'll be up an running in no time think the little plant with the whirls of leaves is a peperomia can't find the species


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Being very untechnical, could you explain exactly what you bought and how the pump / resovoir was setup / linked up?

Also any reason you chose the mist-king system over the dartfrog or ENT one?

Many thanks

Anthony


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

well in the kit i brought was 1 pump/power adapter, 1 L nozzle, 1 timer, 3 metres of tubing, the attachment to turn anything you want into a resevoir. (remember to buy a EU - UK plug converter i didnt lol) i brought an extra 2 nozzles

i have never set up any sort of misting system before and it was easy to install on the pump is holes to screw the pump to something. i just have it laying flat at the moment because it has rubber buffers on it to stop vibration and noise anyway. 

i am using 5 litre mineral water containers as my resevoir and just drilled the hole into the screw cap then i can change water containers easy. all i needed to do was drill the holes for the nozzles into my perspex and it fits through then you can screw it onto the other side if that makes sense? the pump/resevoir and nozzles are all linked by the tubing supplied that just clicks into the holes

i chose the mist king system because after reading alot of forums and reviews alot of people swore by the mistking system. not to mention they use it in zoos etc.

ill take some pics if you can wait till tomorrow and show you m8


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Re the Java moss, in my experience it only thrives in very wet vivs, like my FBT one, or actually under water- I have to hoik out loads from my clawed frog tank when I clean it out. It hangs on, at best, elsewhere. The moss selection you have ordered in is more likely to do well- Dartfrog also do a 'paint on' mix for panels- a few people on here have had some luck with it.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Re the Java moss, in my experience it only thrives in very wet vivs, like my FBT one, or actually under water- I have to hoik out loads from my clawed frog tank when I clean it out. It hangs on, at best, elsewhere. The moss selection you have ordered in is more likely to do well- Dartfrog also do a 'paint on' mix for panels- a few people on here have had some luck with it.


I haven't purchased from dartfrog, just a dendroworld member.

I have removed both the pond and the wood now, as the wood was going very mouldy. I am looking for a single large piece of sumatran driftwood to come on ebay now, particularly a windswept looking piece.

I will be ordering some springtails to throw in the tank soon, and if I can justify it a misting system / humidity controller.


----------



## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

I think its humid enough 










Sumatran driftwood, almond leaves, more plants from dartfrog on their way too


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeahhhhh fill that thing with plants and it's a winner.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeahhhhh fill that thing with plants and it's a winner.


Thats the plan


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

wow nice humidity! looks good : victory:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> wow nice humidity! looks good : victory:


Cheers.

I have a question however, the centre of the broms look like they are rotting almost, whats the remedy for this? :


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

am not sure but it looks like your broms flowers are just at the end of there life,eventually they will start to produce pups and thenm the parent brom will probably die leaving its kids to carry on,leastways thats what ours are trying to do,but i keep removing the pups so haven't lost any yet:whistling2:......touching wood:lol2:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Got a small order from dartfrog today with the following plants :

Tilliandsia Bulbosa
Neoralgia Tarapatoenisis offset
Tradescantia fluminensis tricolour
Begonia Bowerae
Croton
Fittonia red
Nidularium fifi offset

Also got 2 hydei stater cultures, 2 springtail cultures and a tropical woodlouse culture all to set up.

I will update with photos later today when I have planted the viv


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Plants arriving from dartfrog :










Also a couple of photos of it just planted :



















Also have set up the tropical woodlice, springtail and fruitfly cultures (also added a springtail culture into the viv itself), so once I have managed to breed the fruitflies I will be ordering either some Tinc cobalts or Tinc Azureus (possibly a 2.1 group - is this viable?)

Many thanks

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks the sh*t.

It's big enough for a trio, bit of a debate as to whether more than a pair is a good idea, but I'd say it's enough space in there.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Looks the sh*t.
> 
> It's big enough for a trio, bit of a debate as to whether more than a pair is a good idea, but I'd say it's enough space in there.



You think - I really think it looks terrible, no real attention paid to layout 

If a pair is better then I will stick with a pair. Either tincs or pumilio ......


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> You think - I really think it looks terrible, no real attention paid to layout
> 
> If a pair is better then I will stick with a pair. Either tincs or pumilio ......


 Trust me, lots of plants covers a multitude of sins!:lol2:

Looking good, mate!:2thumb:


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

a 2.1 one of tincs is better than a 1.2. looks plenty big enough. Also i think it looks really nice. How are you culturing the FF's?


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

I think it looks great!! The only thing I would say is that some nice chunky braches or pieces of wood would go a treat in there. I can't remember whether it's good with humidity or not, but mopani wood looks the nuts IMO. www.netpetshop.co.uk has a good selection of wood and things, if you go on the aquatics bit then it'll say which ones can deal with water. They can be a bit funny with delivery though, I've had some problems with them in the past but nothing that couldn't be resolved by sending out again!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Cheers for the feedback guys 

I have setup all my livefood cultures now, however I could find no adult fruitflies in the starter cultures, only a multitude of larvae?

Here is the fruitfly culture (of 3), does it look ok? I followed the Alan Canns guide for the food, so I hope it proves successful










Cheers

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

detail3r said:


> You think - I really think it looks terrible, no real attention paid to layout
> 
> If a pair is better then I will stick with a pair. Either tincs or pumilio ......


 
Layout? I just throw plants in, the rainforest has no layout planned.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ant viv looks cool dude: victory: we will go for a male high trio if we can get them on tincs have been told that fertility is often better with 2 males as they kinda compete with each other,but not like the bitch girls do:lol2::lol2:beating the crap out of each other.........(ouch this is gonna hurt)...WOMEN:whistling2::whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Looks amazing. I love that purple brom!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

manda88 said:


> I think it looks great!! The only thing I would say is that some nice chunky braches or pieces of wood would go a treat in there. I can't remember whether it's good with humidity or not, but mopani wood looks the nuts IMO. www.netpetshop.co.uk has a good selection of wood and things, if you go on the aquatics bit then it'll say which ones can deal with water. They can be a bit funny with delivery though, I've had some problems with them in the past but nothing that couldn't be resolved by sending out again!


I've had a look on there but can't find anything suitable 



Morgan Freeman said:


> Layout? I just throw plants in, the rainforest has no layout planned.


Very true, so my random poor layout is 'natural': victory:



soundstounite said:


> Ant viv looks cool dude: victory: we will go for a male high trio if we can get them on tincs have been told that fertility is often better with 2 males as they kinda compete with each other,but not like the bitch girls do:lol2::lol2:beating the crap out of each other.........(ouch this is gonna hurt)...WOMEN:whistling2::whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


Cheers dude, yeah i'm thinking a male high trio of Tinz Azureus or Tinc Cobalt.



ipreferaflan said:


> Looks amazing. I love that purple brom!


Cheers mate.

I am thinking of making some fake driftwood with expanding foam, silicone and coco fibre, but i'd need a suitable bendy stable core material to create it?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

check out epiweb site,i think but not sure they have what ya need,or use mesh and cover with rockoflex/ epoxy resin should work...............init


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

or if ya broke like me EYES open look native ....IE: oak and prob. more suitable for you lonicera(our native honeysuckle),our old early viv builds thread will give ya an idea of what i'm on about.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> or if ya broke like me EYES open look native ....IE: oak and prob. more suitable for you lonicera(our native honeysuckle),our old early viv builds thread will give ya an idea of what i'm on about.


I have plenty of honeysuckle but none of the vines are 'mature woody' vines just yet, so thats a no go.

Oak there is plenty of, even in our garden! My understanding though is you have to leave the freshly cut branches out of the vivs a fair while to prevent any sap leakage etc?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Both we source,as dead and seasoned,from local woodland,most mature oaks have dead branches,often in woodland that is managed, both Ivy and Lonicera are cut off at the bottom to prevent them smothering the tree that they are scampering over. These are our targets...collect reasponsibly!!....and as they are left up in the air there is very little chance of picking up any nasties.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

yeah, I didn't think about the dead wood on established trees, when I answered earlier. Dead branches would be fine to use straight away.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Good call, I think a visit to the peak districts in order to salvage some wood: victory:

Also, do you think this tank is suitable for Dendrobates Galactonotus? As i'd rather a frog that does better in a group naturally than 'force' the issue with a 2.1 group of tincs. I can't find much info on them (read the saurian and dendroboard care sheets) and it seems then are terrestrial, difficult to sex, do well in groups, and care is pretty much the same as the tincs / luecs / auratus. One question though, do they need a deep pond?

Cheers

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Galacs are terrestrial, but may climb if given the choice.

Certain morphs can be shy I think. No DF needs a deep pond.

Galacs are also......awesome.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Galacs are terrestrial, but may climb if given the choice.
> 
> Certain morphs can be shy I think. No DF needs a deep pond.
> 
> Galacs are also......awesome.


Yeah, it seems the reds are quite shy, but orange, yellow and moonshines are all pretty outgoing - the only thing I can't find any info on is temps? I would imagine then 23c day temps and 17c night temps of mine should be fine for them.

I have to say I think if marc has any of these left I will be getting them sooner rather than later.... the only thing putting me off is the issue with shortened rear limbs occuring in offspring...


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

where did you read about the shortening of the limbs in offspring? as to temps me book says in nature they experiance a marked dry season from dec to may........average temps dry season up to 30,in day......rainy season...20-23...peaks sound yummy


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> where did you read about the shortening of the limbs in offspring? as to temps me book says in nature they experiance a marked dry season from dec to may........average temps dry season up to 30,in day......rainy season...20-23...peaks sound yummy


I think consistent conditions are more ideal, as they come from equatorial rainforests where consistent climatic conditions are observed.

The shortened limb observations are widely discussed on dendroboard, it seems far less prevalent now then a few years ago though.


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## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

why not get a zoomed waterfall kit
a bit of hydroleca and a pump to make a waterfall


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

firebelliedfreak said:


> why not get a zoomed waterfall kit
> a bit of hydroleca and a pump to make a waterfall


As a water feature i dartfrog tanks is unnecessary and largely down to the owner wanting it to 'look' natural where as in their natural habitat they will only come across small, shallow bodies of water.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> As a water feature i dartfrog tanks is unnecessary and largely down to the owner wanting it to 'look' natural where as in their natural habitat they will only come across small, shallow bodies of water.


 Somebody buy this poster a drink!:no1:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

dunno mate real tricky one,i suspect the differing cimatic seasons might be a massive stimulus for breeding,and if its going great the dry season might just induce the lasses to rest oh and the source Lotters et al methinks is the most detail i can find on darts anywhere....and by god we've tried,but i suppose untill one has actually lived there and monitored it for yourself its all just heresay...


----------



## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

detail3r said:


> As a water feature i dartfrog tanks is unnecessary and largely down to the owner wanting it to 'look' natural where as in their natural habitat they will only come across small, shallow bodies of water.


dude lol i thought the only reason you havent got a water feature is cos your pump didnt work in a less than full tank, you guys make me feel bad for havin water  haha


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Somebody buy this poster a drink!:no1:


: victory:




soundstounite said:


> dunno mate real tricky one,i suspect the differing cimatic seasons might be a massive stimulus for breeding,and if its going great the dry season might just induce the lasses to rest oh and the source Lotters et al methinks is the most detail i can find on darts anywhere....and by god we've tried,but i suppose untill one has actually lived there and monitored it for yourself its all just heresay...


I will follow the method that most successful keepers on DW and dendroboard follow, stable, steady climactic conditions as probably occurs in equatorial rain forests with extensive canopies / cover: victory:



onemanandhisgecko said:


> dude lol i thought the only reason you havent got a water feature is cos your pump didnt work in a less than full tank, you guys make me feel bad for havin water  haha


Your right, thats the reason I gave up, but after further research I have learnt that the only one to benefit from such water features is the keeper, to make it more aesthetically pleasing to ones eye, or to appear more 'natural'. However if you look at the physiology of Dendrobates, thumbs and vents ... more specifically their feet they seem to lack webbed structures, which to me shows that they don't or very rarely encounter large bodies of water, even less so exhibit a preference towards 'swimming'. As I said above, I will follow the majority and provide them with a shallow dish of water should they wish to bathe (unlikely) or deposit eggs / tads, and not risk any chance of injury or drowning, as could be possible with larger, deeper, fast flowing water features: victory:


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

detail3r said:


> : victory:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all true m8, although i think a water feature isnt going completely against habitat as in most rainforests there are large bodys of water that are quite common, rivers, streams, pools etc ill let you know if i have to throw any life rings in to save my frogs :lol2: but i do respect your opinion m8 completely : victory: and love your setup


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

detail3r said:


> Your right, thats the reason I gave up, but after further research I have learnt that the only one to benefit from such water features is the keeper, to make it more aesthetically pleasing to ones eye, or to appear more 'natural'. However if you look at the physiology of Dendrobates, thumbs and vents ... more specifically their feet they seem to lack webbed structures, which to me shows that they don't or very rarely encounter large bodies of water, even less so exhibit a preference towards 'swimming'. As I said above, I will follow the majority and provide them with a shallow dish of water should they wish to bathe (unlikely) or deposit eggs / tads, and not risk any chance of injury or drowning, as could be possible with larger, deeper, fast flowing water features: victory:


It is true, dartfrogs can't swim for sh*t.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

detail3r said:


> Your right, thats the reason I gave up, but after further research I have learnt that the only one to benefit from such water features is the keeper, to make it more aesthetically pleasing to ones eye, or to appear more 'natural'. However if you look at the physiology of Dendrobates, thumbs and vents ... more specifically their feet they seem to lack webbed structures, which to me shows that they don't or very rarely encounter large bodies of water, even less so exhibit a preference towards 'swimming'. As I said above, I will follow the majority and provide them with a shallow dish of water should they wish to bathe (unlikely) or deposit eggs / tads, and not risk any chance of injury or drowning, as could be possible with larger, deeper, fast flowing water features: victory:


I agree with this, however from keeping dendrobates i notice these in particular will congregate around water - particularly flowing water. In my last water feature viv they would always sit under the falls of the waterfall - they would occasionally go away for a climb or to feed, but spent most of the time around the water. Viv humidity was always 90% or higher, so the only reason i can think of is that they simply LIKED it under the water. 

I agree about the 'large bodies of water being a bad idea' though, i mean a friend of mine had an adult splashback drown in a bromeliad vase (i assume the darwin awards were at play here...)

But a cm or two is fine, and i suppose it may be OK to risk a little deeper so long as there is PLENTY of places for the frogs to get out. They can swim - but they look utterly ridiculous doing it and fail so badly :lol2:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

chondro13 said:


> I agree with this, however from keeping dendrobates i notice these in particular will congregate around water - particularly flowing water. In my last water feature viv they would always sit under the falls of the waterfall - they would occasionally go away for a climb or to feed, but spent most of the time around the water. Viv humidity was always 90% or higher, so the only reason i can think of is that they simply LIKED it under the water.
> 
> I agree about the 'large bodies of water being a bad idea' though, i mean a friend of mine had an adult splashback drown in a bromeliad vase (i assume the darwin awards were at play here...)
> 
> But a cm or two is fine, and i suppose it may be OK to risk a little deeper so long as there is PLENTY of places for the frogs to get out. They can swim - but they look utterly ridiculous doing it and fail so badly :lol2:


Good points well made: victory:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Added a few more plants today, and am less happy then ever with the look (also its debatable as to wether the new plants will flourish or die in this tank) :




























Comments and feedback welcome.

Many thanks

Anthony


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

I loooove that huge twisty bit of wood, I think the whole thing looks awesome! Where's the water bit?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

detail3r said:


> Added a few more plants today, and am less happy then ever with the look (also its debatable as to wether the new plants will flourish or die in this tank) :
> 
> image
> 
> ...



Looks epic! If your not sure on the look, why not get some coir pots and cut a U shape in the background to fit the pots and silicone them in place, and position some of your bigger leafy plants higher up?

This is an 'in progress' viv but you get the idea:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Needs more plants :2thumb:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

manda88 said:


> I loooove that huge twisty bit of wood, I think the whole thing looks awesome! Where's the water bit?


I will add a water dish buried into the substrate - As daft as it sounds im actually running out of room in there :/



chondro13 said:


> Looks epic! If your not sure on the look, why not get some coir pots and cut a U shape in the background to fit the pots and silicone them in place, and position some of your bigger leafy plants higher up?
> 
> This is an 'in progress' viv but you get the idea:
> image


See yours looks so much better imo! What wood are you using?

Cheers for the tips.: victory:



Morgan Freeman said:


> Needs more plants :2thumb:


Really? Such as what? More broms? Larger leaved plants? Background cover?

I've been told the planting looks too formal and constructed and i'd be inclinded to agree, aswell the the vine looking out of place and the distinct lack of wood in there.

On a sidenote, I may have sourced four Orange galacts and they may be here by the end of the month :2thumb:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I will add a water dish buried into the substrate - As daft as it sounds im actually running out of room in there :/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm joking. The tank is fantastic.

I just love plants.


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## Emma247 (Oct 22, 2007)

chondro13 said:


> Looks epic! If your not sure on the look, why not get some coir pots and cut a U shape in the background to fit the pots and silicone them in place, and position some of your bigger leafy plants higher up?
> 
> This is an 'in progress' viv but you get the idea:
> image
> ...


I have a natural cork bark background and want to out some mushrooms from dartfrog on it for ledges for my WTF. How would I go about fixing the mushrooms to the cork bark? Cut a slit for the mushroom to sit in the cork bark and silicon it?

Thanks


----------



## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Dude, will you stop putting yourself down??? It looks wonderful!:notworthy: Once the plants start to grow and spread you will lose any 'constructed' look- you'll find that you have to subtly prune occasionally to keep them under control. Undoubtably, you will lose some plants- over the years I have found that the same plant, in roughly the same conditions in different tanks does incredibly well in one tank, and pegs it in another- that's cos plants are living organisms too. And that's what makes it fun!:2thumb: Each tank develops it's own character, and each is unique.





Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm joking. The tank is fantastic.
> 
> I just love plants.


Cheers lads: victory:


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

love it detail3r! exactly stop being so critical on yourself and your tank it really does look fantastic m8! loving all the low plants on the floor extremely natural looking, also the twisty vine. i want one 1 lol:2thumb::no1:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> love it detail3r! exactly stop being so critical on yourself and your tank it really does look fantastic m8! loving all the low plants on the floor extremely natural looking, also the twisty vine. i want one 1 lol:2thumb::no1:


Cheers boss: victory:

A few (poor) photos to show the new growth :

Peperomia Petuolata :










Guzmania with 2 new plants at the base :










Brom with new plant at base :










Baby tears seems to have grown already! (or is it just me...) :










The moss seems to have settled and is showing new growth :











Also the Anubias Nana (supposedly aquatic only), is showing new growth too :










Sorry for the poor photos.

The Ficus seems to be a none starter atm, also the wandering jew and new broms are doing nothing, I hope they pick up.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I grow Anubias in my FBT tank- the roots are in water, but the leaves are emersed- it actually seems to grow faster that way! Strictly speaking, they are marsh plants rather than totally aquatic- in the wild they can cope with seasonal flooding as well as being exposed to the air.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

It's a great sign to have new growth already.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> I grow Anubias in my FBT tank- the roots are in water, but the leaves are emersed- it actually seems to grow faster that way! Strictly speaking, they are marsh plants rather than totally aquatic- in the wild they can cope with seasonal flooding as well as being exposed to the air.


My Anubias in my old south american biotope tank used to grow like wildfire being submerged constantly. It did however have a CO2 system tied to a PH controller and have T5 and MH lighting - so maybe that was a factor.



Morgan Freeman said:


> It's a great sign to have new growth already.


Cheers - maybe its my optimism seeing growth that isnt there. lol. Besides its only eco earth / orchid bark substrate which can't be that good for the plants...

Im still not happy with the layout...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Orchid bark/eco earth is good enough. One your leaf litter starts to decay the nutrient content should improve.

My layout has changed about 7 times, I'm finally happy with it. Needs more broms though :2thumb:


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Orchid bark/eco earth is good enough. One your leaf litter starts to decay the nutrient content should improve.
> 
> My layout has changed about 7 times, I'm finally happy with it. Needs more broms though :2thumb:


You have loads of brom's in there though don't you. Can you show us the latest update then Morgy please?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> You have loads of brom's in there though don't you. Can you show us the latest update then Morgy please?


Yeah but I want more! NORE MORE MORRRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah but I want more! NORE MORE MORRRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


How can you fit them in it looked PACKED PACKED PACKEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

loving the baby tears does it do well in humid conditions, i really wish i knew more about plants and had done some research on plants before i started, even better would have been to have you come plant shopping with me!!! but leave your phone behind so we dont get funny looks lol :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> How can you fit them in it looked PACKED PACKED PACKEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I like that look.

The cork bark only has one brom, they're all on the back.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> loving the baby tears does it do well in humid conditions, i really wish i knew more about plants and had done some research on plants before i started, even better would have been to have you come plant shopping with me!!! but leave your phone behind so we dont get funny looks lol :2thumb:


Haha sounds like a plan mate - If i go however, the phone goes:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## petkel (Aug 17, 2010)

detail3r said:


> Definitely, as its my first setup i'm now glad I decided against the water feature, it would have just made things far too complicated.
> 
> Regarding the drainage layer, it currently has 2 inches of hydroleca at the bottom with 1 inch if water sitting within it - do I need to add a syphon point to prevent stagnant water developing?
> 
> ...


could use an Exo Terra waterfall and goes great with the hydro balls as the pump comes with it and need no external sources (water comes from drainage through the hydro balls) at the bottom of the waterfall there is a pond section type of thing if it is too deep add some pebbles so the frogs do not drown but it works in keeping humidity high etc..Kelly..: victory:


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

I heard the exo Terra waterfalls are a breeding ground for bacteria, unless you clean it thoroughly every couple of days and I think that would stress the frogs?


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## petkel (Aug 17, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> I heard the exo Terra waterfalls are a breeding ground for bacteria, unless you clean it thoroughly every couple of days and I think that would stress the frogs?


Good point!! is there any other waterfall which isn't so bad bacteria wise that 1 clean a week would be sufficient?


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

I really wouldn't know m8, best way is to build one in chondro has a guide posted somewhere m8


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## petkel (Aug 17, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> I really wouldn't know m8, best way is to build one in chondro has a guide posted somewhere m8[/QUOTE
> Thanx..will look as i am in the process of setting up my viv  was going to buy a waterfall but i will have to reconsider now..


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah, the general concensus on here seems to be that the exo ones are bad news.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Added another Guzmania and a Tilliansia brom, and am now leaving it to fill in. The wandering jew has rooted nicely so im hoping this will cover the back wall, while i'm hoping the ficus will cover the right wall.

Comments welcome!

Cheers

Anthony


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

You're going to have to stay on top of your pruning in a viv so densely planted from the outset.  I'd recommend a pair of the curved aquarium plant scissors.

Now, when the frogs going in there? 

Ade


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

Love it m8, if I didn't have a water featue tank I'd defiantly want my tank to look like that


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Wolfenrook said:


> You're going to have to stay on top of your pruning in a viv so densely planted from the outset.  I'd recommend a pair of the curved aquarium plant scissors.
> 
> Now, when the frogs going in there?
> 
> Ade


Maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year - who knows! I enjoy looking at the plants as much as having frogs tbh.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> Maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year - who knows! I enjoy looking at the plants as much as having frogs tbh.


 Aaaaargh! A Morgan clone!:gasp:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

onemanandhisgecko said:


> Love it m8, if I didn't have a water featue tank I'd defiantly want my tank to look like that


Don't be silly, yours is miles better, as are most on the 'phib section.

I will plan more next time.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Aaaaargh! A Morgan clone!:gasp:


Just noticed this:lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Aaaaargh! A Morgan clone!:gasp:


 behave,the poor buggers gotta move first...then......doors open


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## liamb111 (Apr 2, 2010)

looking great! it's guna b one hell of a jungle once that all grows in!!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> behave,the poor buggers gotta move first...then......doors open


Yeah, yeah. 

*waits for the next MF excuse for not actually having any frogs, despite umpteen fab vivs* :whistling2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Dude i can't pick holes in him HE's got more frogs than me:blush::blush::blush: but i might just find him and nick his vivs soon....bare with me:lol2:,oh and Ant the viv rocks,amazing what one can do when one just chucks in some plants...without thought ha ha...fairplay mate


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

liamb111 said:


> looking great! it's guna b one hell of a jungle once that all grows in!!


Cheers mate



soundstounite said:


> Dude i can't pick holes in him HE's got more frogs than me:blush::blush::blush: but i might just find him and nick his vivs soon....bare with me:lol2:,oh and Ant the viv rocks,amazing what one can do when one just chucks in some plants...without thought ha ha...fairplay mate


Cheers for the backhanded compliment. Lol.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Looks lovely! I want a piece of twisty wood like that!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Looks lovely! I want a piece of twisty wood like that!


Cheers.

You can have the wood if you like, I took it out as I didn't like the overall look created:lol2:


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Ooh yes please, how much? :lol2:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Ooh yes please, how much? :lol2:


Postage costs


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Ok, thanks  let me know a price and I'll paypal you the money. :2thumb:


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

You might already know this, but if its heavy.. get the postage through 'parcel monkey.co.uk they do really good deals!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Do you guys think there is enough space in this viv to accommodate a group of 4 Terribilis?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

From what I have read, you can keep 4 terriblis in a 60 wide, so a 90 wide should give them more than enough room.

Ade


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Wolfenrook said:


> From what I have read, you can keep 4 terriblis in a 60 wide, so a 90 wide should give them more than enough room.
> 
> Ade


Excellent, because it looks like I am picking up a group of 4 this week


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Managed to snag my dads D5000 for the night, so heres a few snaps showing better colours :














































I hope you like

Regards

Anthony


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

4 terriblis will go in there no problem, i kept 4 in 60x40x40 ent style viv and grew them to adults without any problems :2thumb: heres some of mine, i think anyone that keeps darts should have some terriblis


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Just thought i'd update to say I have added 0.0.4 Phyllobates Terribillis 'Yellow' as of 2 days ago.

Also as another member asked for a complete plant list, here it is :

Bromeliads :

Guzmania (sp) 
Neoralgia Tarapatoenisis 
Nidularium fifi
Tillansdia Bulbosa
Tiliiansdia (sp)


Climbers :

Ficus Pumilia
Ficus Quercifolia
Tradescantia fluminensis tricolour

Others :

Anubias Barteri 'Nana'
'Babytears'
Begonia Bowrae
Croton
Dracaena deremensis
Fittonia 'Red'
Peperomia Caperata
Peperomia Puteolata
Pilea Glauca
Pilea Involucrata
Pilea (sp) - Unidentified
Tropical Moss


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

10mm polycarbonate sheeting has replaced the mesh top / perspex combo :




























Seems to let plenty of light through too :


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

Amazing :2thumb: get up some piccies of the darts : victory:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

abadi said:


> Amazing :2thumb: get up some piccies of the darts : victory:


Heres a snap of one that braved the floor today :










and one of the fan setup on the tank (unsightly but effective) :










Cheers

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

They're getting braver, good stuff.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)




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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

How are the plants doing? Any growth?


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> How are the plants doing? Any growth?


I was hoping you could see that from the photos lol. The babytears isn't doing great nor is the moss but the rest seem to be doing ok and growing (especially the Peperomia species)

Also I was looking to incorporate these branches into the viv as I hate the look of it as it stands - Opinions?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Well it looks like it's grown, it's just hard to tell!

Not sure, never seen them used before.

BUT...you may be please to know http://www.plantedbox.com/shop/ have manzanita in.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Well it looks like it's grown, it's just hard to tell!
> 
> Not sure, never seen them used before.
> 
> BUT...you may be please to know www.theplantedbox.com have manzanita in.


I would be, but i'm skint lol. I need a misting system next month .


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I was considering making my own. I'm sure if you had a strong enough pump you'd just need nozzles and tubing.

It's be useful to know what pressure the pumps used in most misting systems produce. Ultimately it's just a pump in a plastic box.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I was considering making my own. I'm sure if you had a strong enough pump you'd just need nozzles and tubing.
> 
> It's be useful to know what pressure the pumps used in most misting systems produce. Ultimately it's just a pump in a plastic box.



The one Dartfrog sell is a 15 bar pump. It's the same system as this one: http://www.vivaria.nl/vivaria/?get=info&artikelnr=sch001&template=moreinfo_climatecontrol.xsl

Oh and that system the pump isn't even in a plastic box, it's mounted on a bracket thing instead.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Any what 15 bar is in terms of flow rate? LPH.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

From my understanding you can't compare the 2. One been flow rate, the other been a measurement of the pressure they produce. The pressure is to force the water through the nozzles to create the fine mist.

If it helps though, I get through about 2 liters a day running 4 nozzles for 30 seconds every 2 hours between 10am and 10pm. lol

I don't think that will help much though, as if the pump can't manage the high pressure it wont push water through the nozzles fast enough to get a mist, and you would end up with a rain system rather than a mist system.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

One of these would probably do the job though Swiftech MCP655 Laing D5 Vario Water Pump - CandCCentral given that supports up to 50 bar pressure at 1200lph and is the cheapest I could find. Not much of a saving over a system though. lol

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ignore me, I got the PSI and BAR mixed up, that's not high pressure enough... lol

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah you're right. I was looking for a way to compare them but maybe there isn't.

I'm sure there is a pump strong enough, once you've converted it to much smaller tubing. Consider the nozzles are say £8 each plus a few quid for tubes. You have £80 left to play with just for the pump, given most systems are around the £100 mark.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The properly high pressure pumps I have seen start at about £90 each. Pollywog misting system is £95.... I do know though that some folks have made one using windscreen washer pumps, but not sure how effective these are, or how many nozzles they will run, as that's the thing. You might be able to get 1 nozzle to work off a lower pressure pump, but could you get 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.... lol

The pump seems to be the most expensive part of the misting systems. Pollywog the pump assembly kit is £60 (£40 for just the pump), Dart Frog the pump is £54.99. Hmmm, it's possible the components would be cheaper than a kit... lol

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

It's probably not worth it BUT....I have a lot of spare time on my hands :lol2:

I've heard about the windscreen thing before *trawls ebay*

Edit: They run at around a tenner....I feel a new project coming along.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Oh noooo, I've unleashed a monster! :lol2:

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

:lol2:

It's not going to cost much, what could go wrong!? :gasp:

Do you know where I can find a guide? It looks easy, I just can't see how you would supplier power.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> :lol2:
> 
> It's not going to cost much, what could go wrong!? :gasp:


Morgan, If you manage to make one of these successfully I will be very interested in the plans and cost how you made them. You could even make some money from it as im sure a lot of people would rip your hand off if they are saving lots of moneys.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Morgan, If you manage to make one of these successfully I will be very interested in the plans and cost how you made them. You could even make some money from it as im sure a lot of people would rip your hand off if they are saving lots of moneys.


If I can't find a guide I'll probably give it a go anyway. I'll just go into a car shop and ask loads of weird questions.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

To get back on topic.

I don't like that birch (paper birch?).

I do like how things look now you have moved the wood in there, just think you need to put some tillandsia on there.

Ade


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Morgan, If you manage to make one of these successfully I will be very interested in the plans and cost how you made them. You could even make some money from it as im sure a lot of people would rip your hand off if they are saving lots of moneys.


What about this for £70 its got pump, 2 misting heads with one t-piece 4 metres of 4mm outlet tube and 500mm lenght of inlet tube,and power cable, everything you need to mist a viv, can also add another 4 misting heads to this


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What are you selling it?


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What are you selling it?


I can sell them at that price if people are interested, but will have to wait a week for me to order all the parts in, its all brand new by the way


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

richie.b said:


> I can sell them at that price if people are interested, but will have to wait a week for me to order all the parts in, its all brand new by the way


Yeah I'd be interested. I'm waiting on a glass drill bit though, so I'm in if I don't crack my tanks making the holes.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

richie.b said:


> I can sell them at that price if people are interested, but will have to wait a week for me to order all the parts in, its all brand new by the way


I will be interested but I have to get the tank set up first and it wont be for a little bit, so if you are still able to do them then, I will have one off you.:2thumb:


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah I'd be interested. I'm waiting on a glass drill bit though, so I'm in if I don't crack my tanks making the holes.


easy enough use a cordless drill not so heavy, let the drill do the work and dont force it, make sure you keep the area your drilling wet and also cut a template out of ply or similar so the bit doesnt slide all over the glass. This is the bit you need and can get them from b&q not much dearer than ebay


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah I borrowed a handdrill as the speed is slower. Got a large tray thing to hold it over so I can pour water as I'm doing it.

Didn't think about a template, good idea.


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

richie.b said:


> I can sell them at that price if people are interested, but will have to wait a week for me to order all the parts in, its all brand new by the way


interested! How many vivs could be done with this if bought more nozzles?
I have 5 vivs in a rack could this cope with misting all of them?


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Jezza84 said:


> interested! How many vivs could be done with this if bought more nozzles?
> I have 5 vivs in a rack could this cope with misting all of them?


It will run 6 nozzles so depends what size your vivs are, i only use 1 nozzle on a 40x40x40 but 2 on anything bigger


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What size holes?


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What size holes?


holes for the nozzles are 10mm


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> I will be interested but I have to get the tank set up first and it wont be for a little bit, so if you are still able to do them then, I will have one off you.:2thumb:


No problem Matt : victory:


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

i think we need to start a new thread about this, just realised weve taken over detail3r thread, sorry buddy :blush:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

I was gonna say:lol2:


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

have you put the wood in there m8, would be interested to see how it looks?


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Due to me killing my macbook, it's been a long time since I updated.

The tank now has a bit of a different look, and now has an Optiwhite lid and Mistking system in place. 

The Terribs are doing great, getting bolder all the time and eating like pigs.

Also planning on upgrading them to a larger tank, probably a large custom ENT style viv soon and adding 2 more to make it a group of 6 .

Will update with photos soon.

Regards

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Welcome back man.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Thought i'd update with a few photos and also additions...

I have added a Mistking misting system and replaced the polycarbonate lid with a split sheet of 4mm Pilkington Optiwhite glass (3 x 16mm holes predrilled for the mistking system).

Optiwhite lid plus Mistking fittings 

























The largest of the Terribs :









FTS:









Pepperomia Caperata (note flower stalk) :









Ficus growth :









Begonia Bowrae and moss growth :









Brom offsets :









Starting work on a thumbnail viv next month 

Comments welcome, both good and bad

Kind regards

Anthony


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks really good.

My Begonia died :/


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Looks really good.
> 
> My Begonia died :/


Cheers - Soon as they are adults its going to be completely rescaped though.

Unlucky - any reason you can think of? In fairness this one took an age to settle and finally grow. It died back significantly after about 4 weeks or so.


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## stewie m (Sep 16, 2009)

that a really nice viv


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

welcome back kiddo good to see ya about,viv looks cool...so what is driving you to referb,and towards ent style?,and what thumbs are you hankering for?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Looking good! Although, does the mister keep it that damp all the time? I guess that must be fine for darts, but it would be way too wet for most of my guys.

@Morgan: I've got some of those begonias in my Asian toad tank- they are not doing great at the mo, but I suspect that being sat on by three fat toads on a regular basis is not helping!:lol2:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> welcome back kiddo good to see ya about,viv looks cool...so what is driving you to referb,and towards ent style?,and what thumbs are you hankering for?


I'm keeping the Exo, just this time planting less broms and more ferns with more wood and moss and not rushing it this time. I'm thinking either some Vanzos or Jeberos with some fancy lighting .



Ron Magpie said:


> Looking good! Although, does the mister keep it that damp all the time? I guess that must be fine for darts, but it would be way too wet for most of my guys.
> 
> @Morgan: I've got some of those begonias in my Asian toad tank- they are not doing great at the mo, but I suspect that being sat on by three fat toads on a regular basis is not helping!:lol2:


 The misting system is on 8 times per day, on a 30 second / 15 second alternating basis. It dries out a little but not much - I may reduce the amount of misting down.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

detail3r said:


> I'm keeping the Exo, just this time planting less broms and more ferns with more wood and moss and not rushing it this time. I'm thinking either some Vanzos or Jeberos with some fancy lighting .
> 
> 
> *The misting system is on 8 times per day, on a 30 second / 15 second alternating basis. It dries out a little but not much - I may reduce the amount of misting down.*


A question, not a criticism, mate- the way your plants are flourishing shows it works!:2thumb:

Maybe you could have some sort of 'seaonal' variation between wetter and drier periods? Dunno if it would work, but it could be interesting!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> A question, not a criticism, mate- the way your plants are flourishing shows it works!:2thumb:
> 
> Maybe you could have some sort of 'seaonal' variation between wetter and drier periods? Dunno if it would work, but it could be interesting!


Yeah I think that might be a good plan. If i'm honest I can't see much plant growth between these and pictures of old. What did someone once say? 'You're your own worst critic'?. Lol.

Cheers for the comments and also opinions


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ant.....tell me more about the fancy lighting,going led? Ron seems like a hell of a lot of dartkeepers run wet and dry seasons,though what the criteria they work to are i don't know yet,species like galacs have a pronounced dry period i believe,i guess the dry period would be set so breeding, ie the wet, comes in the early spring,guessing one could then make the most of summer wildfood with the froglets?....unless its mysties they take so long


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

oh an Ant nice choice in thumbs i know vanzo's are on our list and i think Shaz has a massive pull on the jerberos,we'll see


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Ant.....tell me more about the fancy lighting,going led? Ron seems like a hell of a lot of dartkeepers run wet and dry seasons,though what the criteria they work to are i don't know yet,species like galacs have a pronounced dry period i believe,i guess the dry period would be set so breeding, ie the wet, comes in the early spring,guessing one could then make the most of summer wildfood with the froglets?....unless its mysties they take so long


Until I have all the funds together and can get the project rolling, i'm keeping my plans close to my chest bud .

Hope to get the project started by the end of the month .


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

detail3r said:


> Until I have all the funds together and can get the project rolling, i'm keeping my plans close to my chest bud .
> 
> Hope to get the project started by the end of the month .


 :lol2:lol just like me...hope its goes stonking mate and comes out like you want,but ya got to show us sometime...well interested!


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