# corn morph question



## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ive got a question on how to obtain butter okeetees, Is it really really hard to selectively breed the wide band into butters or is it just a case of buying in a butter okeetee from the states?

Is it possible to breed reverse okeetee to caramels to obtain hets for this, as in how likely is the outcome?


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

bumpety bump


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

Since RO is a selectively bred trait, the amount of time it'll take you to see that look again will depend on the initial snakes you use - there's no exact answer possible!

To start on this project I'd recommend using a really extreme, line-bred RO from lines known for their ROs. This will hopefully mean the snake you use has more of the modifiers to produce ROs than say, a passable RO that has "popped up" from a clutch.

If this was my project, I'd breed a really nice RO to a butter (F1), then mate the offspring together (F2). From this you'd get 1/4 butters, and hopefully some of them showing a nice RO pattern. From there, it would make sense to mate out to another RO, to produce a clutch of RO het caramel, which could be mated back to your F1 generation if there's a nice RO het caramel there, or if you've got a nice butter RO F2, back to there. It would be a case of just selecting for the nicest look while making compromises to make sure you don't lose the recessive caramel gene from your lines.

It sounds like a great project to go with, I'd be interested in seeing the progress of this.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

toyah said:


> Since RO is a selectively bred trait, the amount of time it'll take you to see that look again will depend on the initial snakes you use - there's no exact answer possible!
> 
> To start on this project I'd recommend using a really extreme, line-bred RO from lines known for their ROs. This will hopefully mean the snake you use has more of the modifiers to produce ROs than say, a passable RO that has "popped up" from a clutch.
> 
> ...


Hi thanks, i thought Ro to butter would give 100% amels het caramel and by putting the f2's from this would get 25% butters, would it not be easier putting a good RO to a caramel firstly to get het butters, put the f2's together to get butter okeetee, or am i still missing something?


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> Hi thanks, i thought Ro to butter would give 100% amels het caramel and by putting the f2's from this would get 25% butters, would it not be easier putting a good RO to a caramel firstly to get het butters, put the f2's together to get butter okeetee, or am i still missing something?



RO to butter will give 100% amels het caramel (hopefully with a RO look to them). You could certainly use RO to caramel, but that means in the first generation you are going to get all normal het caramel and amel, and so in the second generation you're only looking at a 1/16 chance of butters.

It would probably be a longer way round it, and of course sod's law says if you only get one out of sixteen butter babies, then chances are that'll be the one baby showing the least amount of RO patternation! But yeah, you could still theoretically produce butter okeetees from there.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

toyah said:


> RO to butter will give 100% amels het caramel (hopefully with a RO look to them). You could certainly use RO to caramel, but that means in the first generation you are going to get all normal het caramel and amel, and so in the second generation you're only looking at a 1/16 chance of butters.
> 
> It would probably be a longer way round it, and of course sod's law says if you only get one out of sixteen butter babies, then chances are that'll be the one baby showing the least amount of RO patternation! But yeah, you could still theoretically produce butter okeetees from there.


the two programs im using says RO to caramel will give 100% het butters?:lol2: 

God this morph things hard work:lol2:


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> the two programs im using says RO to caramel will give 100% het butters?:lol2:



Normal het amel and caramel is the same as normal het butter - just a different way of saying things


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

toyah said:


> Normal het amel and caramel is the same as normal het butter - just a different way of saying things


 
ah ok, i gotcha now, that threw me for a minute:lol2: 

so could also be the possibility of ultramel okeetees, by putting an ultramel to RO and getting potentially 50% RO's and 50% ultramel okeetees? Or again have i missed something really obvious:lol2:


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> so could also be the possibility of ultramel okeetees, by putting an ultramel to RO and getting potentially 50% RO's and 50% ultramel okeetees? Or again have i missed something really obvious:lol2:



Ultramel to RO will give 50% ultramel and 50% amel, whether or not they show the RO pattern will depend, you might find that you need to cross one of the F1s back to another RO to get one with an acceptable pattern.

Think of Okeetee/Reverse Okeetee as a breed rather than a morph ... if you bred a collie to a german shepherd (and hoping for dogs that look like collies), in the first generation you might luck out and get a puppy that looks like a collie - but you might get a bunch that just look like neither breed. But when you mate them back to collies, you're increasing the chances that the babies will look more like collies ... make sense?


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

captaincaveman said:


> the two programs im using says RO to caramel will give 100% het butters?:lol2:
> 
> God this morph things hard work:lol2:


dude how many times have we been through this? lol


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> dude how many times have we been through this? lol


i know:lol2: that just threw me:lol2:


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

toyah said:


> Ultramel to RO will give 50% ultramel and 50% amel, whether or not they show the RO pattern will depend, you might find that you need to cross one of the F1s back to another RO to get one with an acceptable pattern.
> 
> Think of Okeetee/Reverse Okeetee as a breed rather than a morph ... if you bred a collie to a german shepherd (and hoping for dogs that look like collies), in the first generation you might luck out and get a puppy that looks like a collie - but you might get a bunch that just look like neither breed. But when you mate them back to collies, you're increasing the chances that the babies will look more like collies ... make sense?


 
yeah, makes sense:lol2: . i though cause the RO's are selective bred amels that this pattern would be more likely shown than not in the patterns


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