# Dubia Roach Diet



## Emma30 (Apr 18, 2008)

Im thinking of changing the diet of my dubia roaches so need a bit of advice please

I have heard that chicken mash or layers pellets are very good 

which one do you recommend mash or pellets?

Where is the cheapest place to buy it from? 

And the best quality/brand of mash or pellets?

Can this be their entire diet as well fresh fruit, veg etc.

Their diet at the min consists of dry dog biscuits, dry cat biscuits, fish food, cereals and icing sugar(1 tsp per 200g) all ground up in a mixer so its a fine powder, sprinkled with bee pollen, they also have fruit & veg every other day.

Thanks for reading :2thumb:


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## bigdan110 (Jun 15, 2010)

[email protected] sell chicken pellets 5kg for around £5


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## Emma30 (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks, ive seen some on ebay £14-£20 for 20kg


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## bigdan110 (Jun 15, 2010)

think its the p&p that kills the value on amazon/ebay a20kg bag is 12.50 from [email protected]


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## Emma30 (Apr 18, 2008)

bigdan110 said:


> think its the p&p that kills the value on amazon/ebay a20kg bag is 12.50 from [email protected]


Thanks that's sounds even better :2thumb:

Is there any particular brand that is better in nutritional form?


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## bigdan110 (Jun 15, 2010)

uh honestly i have no idea tho thay do have an organic layers feed if you buy into the whole organic thing:lol2:


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Organic means that production would be free of pesticides/insecticides. It doesn't seem too crazy, to consider that when it is being fed to insects. I haven't noticed a problem with non organic chicken food (i have little choice) but it doesn't mean it doesn't cause subtle problems. 

Veg/fruit should be available all the time. So if you feed every other day it should be just being finished as you put in fresh. 

I doubt you would get through mash very fast, so would suggest you buy 5 kilo bags and pay a little more, rather than buy 20kilos and end up with the last 10 kilos unuseable as it is full of mites. 

Pellets or powder is just the way it is sold, the ingredients are the same. Powder is best for roaches.


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

Most little pet food shops near me it's less than £10 for 20kg. 

Anytime I get a bowl of mash/pellets out I soak it in water, so a 20kg bag makes around 40 kilo's of food. 

This is stuff I use and it's exspensive online due to postage but you should be able to find it for less than £10 in local shops. BOCM FARMGATE LAYERS MASH 20KG | Chicken Feed | GJW Titmuss

I need to go out today and buy my self another bag so I'm going to see if I can see any of this organic stuff to try out.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

That is exactly the sort of product I use. Try to use up a bag/sack in around 8-12 weeks if possible. Its really cheap stuff really, even a 5 kilo bag will last a long time for a small colony, though I have some larger cages that will easily get through 500g of dry food a day (plus veggies) !


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

Dragon Farm said:


> That is exactly the sort of product I use. Try to use up a bag/sack in around 8-12 weeks if possible. Its really cheap stuff really, even a 5 kilo bag will last a long time for a small colony, though I have some larger cages that will easily get through 500g of dry food a day (plus veggies) !


I would love to see pics of your large colony setup to see how it's done.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I am not sure you have anything to learn from me !

The only thing I do differently to others is that I insert thin sheets of plywood inbetween the vertical egg crate. This provides extra climbing places, and stops the egg crate sheets form slipping together. I find if I move the boxes, over time the crates end up moving, and not aligning as they started.


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## Emma30 (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who has replied, appreciated so much :notworthy:

I do have a large adult colony and another large one I feed from, they can go through veg/fruit and roach chow mix in one sitting!! but I also use a soaked old towel with water on a plastic lid to help with hydration. I use egg crates that are vertical but I glue them together with PVA glue so I don't have the problem of crates moving & squashing roaches lol I do this into 2 separate blocks of egg crates 5 or 4 of them glued together, this helps when cleaning as well as I don't have to disturb the whole colony as most are hidden in the crates.

I will have a look now at the links once again thank you


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## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

Emma30 said:


> Im thinking of changing the diet of my dubia roaches so need a bit of advice please
> 
> I have heard that chicken mash or layers pellets are very good
> 
> ...


Wiser Reptiles Insect Feeder 
Feed your livefoods a healthy balanced diet before you offer them to your pet as food. not just chicken feed.
I use a mix of fish flakes, pond sticks, seaweed, bee pollen, calcium, algaes, mixed seeds/grains/nuts & much more the cost of making 20kg costs much more then the £14-£20 stated by others for chicken feed but the insect gets a better meal my way and I have seen my colonys grow more when using insect feeder just like my tiger hissers (one of the hardest to breed) which are breeding well all year round on this. I wont give all the ingredients but I have some listed. Also feed fresh food every day and make sure you wash it first.
Good luck with your feeder


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

And u to think about also ...


Reptile Resources :: Nutrition Articles :: Can Feeder Insect Diets Contribute To Gout In Reptiles? - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center


:whistling2:


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## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

I just took a look but it just means his bug burger gel was not right for roaches
Feeding a mixed balanced diet to roaches is tried and tested over many years by people worldwide:2thumb: as long as there eating a lot of fresh food as well.


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

Dragon Farm said:


> I am not sure you have anything to learn from me !
> 
> The only thing I do differently to others is that I insert thin sheets of plywood inbetween the vertical egg crate. This provides extra climbing places, and stops the egg crate sheets form slipping together. I find if I move the boxes, over time the crates end up moving, and not aligning as they started.


I have been keeping my colony relatively small for the last couple of years and in nothing more than a 200L container but after spending a ton of money of live food this year I have decided to really up the size of my colony. 

My colony has done me well this year really helping add variety to the diet of my bearded dragons and if I need to grab 1000 roaches out because I ran out of crickets it's not a problem but it's still no where near as big as I need it to be for next year. 

I know you have the knowledge and experience on large scale so though seeing yours would help my out.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Most of my colonies are kept in the classic way, in large plastic boxes with vertical egg crate, but with plywood in between the egg crate flats. The only difference in what I do is the number of boxes. 

As it happens I am in the same situation as you, and desperately need to increase my colonies. In fact I haven't been using any as feeders since March. I had been using them too much in 2012, and was down to just one large plastic box colony. Since then I have harvested 11 kilos just from that one box to start new groups. I will send a PM Imginy, in the next day of so, with more info.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

ExoticInsectsUK said:


> Wiser Reptiles Insect Feeder
> Feed your livefoods a healthy balanced diet before you offer them to your pet as food. not just chicken feed.
> I use a mix of fish flakes, pond sticks, seaweed, bee pollen, calcium, algaes, mixed seeds/grains/nuts & much more the cost of making 20kg costs much more then the £14-£20 stated by others for chicken feed but the insect gets a better meal my way and I have seen my colonys grow more when using insect feeder just like my tiger hissers (one of the hardest to breed) which are breeding well all year round on this. I wont give all the ingredients but I have some listed. Also feed fresh food every day and make sure you wash it first.
> Good luck with your feeder


As you can see from this thread, most people want something cheap to feed roaches, and if price is the main concern then chicken food with veg is better than dog food with veg in my view, and cerainly better than dog food with water crystals as is often recommended. 

Some of the ingredients in the mix that you sell, seem good like algae, and bee pollen, but others I am not sure about. From the photo on your website, the colour of the mix does not look like it has much fish flake in it, but that is listed as the first ingredient. Pond pellets tend to be cereal and fish based, I am not sure how that is very different to dog food which is cereal and meat based. Roaches do not have skeletons, and do not need calcium added to the food. Unless you give some sort of percentage breakdowns of your mix, I am not sure how easy it is to comment on the quality of the product you are promoting. The first two listed ingredients are fish flakes and algae, yet the mix looks like the same colour as the chicken mash I use ! Is fish flake the largest component by weight, followed by algae etc ?


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

p.s. Sorry off topic, but are you really suggesting we should keep our morio worms in the fridge (like it says on your website) ?


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## evaD retsiL (Jul 13, 2013)

I was out and about yesterday getting some food ready for my upcoming Dubia colony, and ended up at [email protected]

I've been under the understanding that higher protein food is better, so I went for a mixture of Kitten food and Puppy food. The kitten food is 37% protein and the puppy food is 29%, but the chicken layer pellets are about 15-16%

So while chicken layer pellets are cheap, maybe they're not the best.

In the end I think my roach food will be a mix of various things, both kitten and dog food, fish flake, various cereals, a bit of calcium, maybe some nutrabol.

Along with fresh veg a few times a week, and plenty of water gel available they should do fine.


But it's all down to personal choice and budget I guess, roaches will eat pretty much anything


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Whatever dubia roaches eat in the wild, i doubt it would be anything as high protein as the foods you have bought. In my experience when they have the choice they prefer lower vegetable protein foods. There is also the theory that high protein diets fed to roaches may risk making your reptiles sick. 

Crickets love high protein diets. Roaches don't seem to need it. Laboratory experiments prove German roaches thrive on a diet of just 4% protein !

In my opinion, you would be better spending your extra money on a really nice mix of veggies and fruits (not just the cheapest ones).

Yes they will eat just about anything, but so would I if it was eat the food provided or starve.


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## evaD retsiL (Jul 13, 2013)

Granted they wouldn't eat as high protein diet in the wild, but in the wild they wouldn't be in a plastic tub with such high a population density as they are kept in captivity.

I certainly don't claim to be an expert or even knowledgeable about keeping them, just information I've gathered while researching.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

The few bits of research I have seen/read rather than just hearsay on internet forums, seems to back up the idea they really don't like or need high protein diets. 

Putting them in plastic boxes in high densities, yes its artificial of course, but why then when kept in this way do they need such high protein foods that we don't even feed to adult carnivore pets ?

The problem is that these roaches are tough and will breed on various diets, and therefore you can easily feed them a sub optimum diet, and they will still appear to reproduce very well. So X person will say such diets are ideal because breeding seems very good for them, without knowing how much better or worse they would breed on another diet.

Until someone can prove by experimentation, we will not know for certain what the perfect diet is. 

We all need to keep an open mind (including me).


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## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

Dragon Farm said:


> As you can see from this thread, most people want something cheap to feed roaches, and if price is the main concern then chicken food with veg is better than dog food with veg in my view, and cerainly better than dog food with water crystals as is often recommended.
> 
> Some of the ingredients in the mix that you sell, seem good like algae, and bee pollen, but others I am not sure about. From the photo on your website, the colour of the mix does not look like it has much fish flake in it, but that is listed as the first ingredient. Pond pellets tend to be cereal and fish based, I am not sure how that is very different to dog food which is cereal and meat based. Roaches do not have skeletons, and do not need calcium added to the food. Unless you give some sort of percentage breakdowns of your mix, I am not sure how easy it is to comment on the quality of the product you are promoting. The first two listed ingredients are fish flakes and algae, yet the mix looks like the same colour as the chicken mash I use ! Is fish flake the largest component by weight, followed by algae etc ?


Hello the photo is old over 4-5 years now and its of the shop brand we sell which is much cheaper I think its rrp is £4 per 500g so it will not have as much expensive ingredients in it. I do need to update the photos but im building a new website as its 7+ years old now so it all needs updating. so it can wait.

Your right not to comment on the quality of the product we are promoting as you have not used it.
Our brand has been used by lots of people online and the shops we supply now only use our livefood insect feeder brand because our ingredients are better then other brands and the customers give good feedback.
We use a lot of it our self as we breed many roaches we have about 400-800 thousand roaches and supply many companys now(GROWING EVERY DAY). Im hoping to have it supplied to wholesalers once I rebrand it & after testing.
Not all roaches eat the same things and I have species that wont eat just chicken feed (I have tried as my family own a farm and I can get it Cheap)
eublaberus distanti, Princisia vanwerebeki, Gromphadorhina oblongonata, gromphadorhina portentosa, and Elliptorhina Chopardi to name a few will not eat it. Also Dubia eat it very slow and this slows there growth. I find some hissers will not eat fruit like Elliptorhina Chopardi but love there veg so its hard to say what is roach food as there diets are different.
Turks are the only roach that I find will eat most things.

Fish flakes are great with new small nymphs and we make our self different mixes for different roaches. and yes I found that if you put some pond sticks in with some species of roaches they will eat them first.(which is why there in the mix)
Its all about testing what species likes what. and then making a mix and see how they grow:no1:
Testing roaches just fed chicken feed to roach insect feeder mix (both fed with fruit+veg) and you will tell the difference within a few months as the roaches will breed at a better rate and grow faster.

I am going to start selling feeds for the species as soon as I have tested them all and I may even show a clip on youtube of growth rate of roaches fed a healthy balanced diet to chicken feed or dog/cat food on its own.

Im not giving away my ingredients list and amounts used as others will use it to sell on there self but if you want a bag of fish flakes I can sell that also:lol2:
Pond sticks and dog food is not made with left over sugar puffs or crunch nut:lol2:
its made from harvest foods, seeds, grains like many other food products for people and animals to eat. We supply animal dry foods brand and work with companys that make it.

I hope this helps people understand roaches a bit more and that there not all the same as dubias. 
Its easy to comment on these things but if you only have a few roaches its hard to test these things.
Our dragons love them and they are healthy and happy:no1:


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

According to you website your roach mix contains 'Fish flakes, seaweed, bee pollen, calcium, algaes, mixed seeds and grains, and more.

I fully understand why you do not want to give exact quantitities of each ingredient, but as I asked before, is fish flakes the largest ingredient, followed by seaweed, etc. Can I assume there is more bee pollen than mixed seeds and grains, (as it is listed first) ?


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

What roaches like/eat first is not only secondary, but pretty much at the bottom of the list unless you are breeding roaches to sell to other people. Since that is what you are doing ExoticInsects, as you have explained, then thats great. However, the initial question asked here was what was the best food to feed to an insect that will be fed to a reptile. Neither fish food, nor dog nor cat food is the way forward. No, testing what roaches eat will not tell you this, as the test will be skewed. Dog and cat food is coated in fat before packaging to make that garbage more palatable to the animals it was designed for. Does this prove any point then? Fish food is high in phosphorous, and therefore lowers the Ca of the insects eating it, which is exactly the opposite of what you want. Its also highly processed and full of preservatives. As well, high protein diets are not good to feed roaches either way, so stick to fruits and vegetables. 

The answer is feed your roaches/feeders what you would feed your reptile. It may not be the cheapest option, nor the easiest one. Feed them a good variety of fresh vegetables and fruits and change them daily. Add to this a dry mix of alfalfa, corn meal, wheat and soy flour, mixed vitamins and calcium powder. Its not the simplest thing ever, but its also not that complicated with the few roaches people breed for their home collections.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

jarich said:


> What roaches like/eat first is not only secondary, but pretty much at the bottom of the list unless you are breeding roaches to sell to other people. Since that is what you are doing ExoticInsects, as you have explained, then thats great. However, the initial question asked here was what was the best food to feed to an insect that will be fed to a reptile. Neither fish food, nor dog nor cat food is the way forward. No, testing what roaches eat will not tell you this, as the test will be skewed. Dog and cat food is coated in fat before packaging to make that garbage more palatable to the animals it was designed for. Does this prove any point then? Fish food is high in phosphorous, and therefore lowers the Ca of the insects eating it, which is exactly the opposite of what you want. Its also highly processed and full of preservatives. As well, high protein diets are not good to feed roaches either way, so stick to fruits and vegetables.
> 
> The answer is feed your roaches/feeders what you would feed your reptile. It may not be the cheapest option, nor the easiest one. *Feed them a good variety of fresh vegetables and fruits and change them daily. Add to this a dry mix of alfalfa, corn meal, wheat and soy flour, mixed vitamins and calcium powder.* Its not the simplest thing ever, but its also not that complicated with the few roaches people breed for their home collections.


Chicken mash is a mix of cereals of soy (soya) flour. In Portugal (and I think in the Uk) it is based on maize (corn) wheat and soya to add a little more protein. It also has added calcium and vitamins. In my view, that fed with a fresh mix of veg and fruit available at all times, makes an ideal diet for dubia and similar roaches. I don't think its important to feed a variety of veg/fruit every day, but try to use a range over the week. With any decent sized colony, it should be possible to add enough fruit/veg daily so that the vast majority is completely eaten within a 24 hour period.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Dragon Farm said:


> According to you website your roach mix contains 'Fish flakes, seaweed, bee pollen, calcium, algaes, mixed seeds and grains, and more.
> 
> I fully understand why you do not want to give exact quantitities of each ingredient, but as I asked before, is fish flakes the largest ingredient, followed by seaweed, etc. Can I assume there is more bee pollen than mixed seeds and grains, (as it is listed first) ?


You don't have to answer, but I suspect that the listing of your ingredients does not reflect the proportion of the ingredients in the mix. If I am correct then I am fairly sure you are breaking UK law. Not only that but if the picture on your website does not show the real product, then that is definately breaking UK laws. 

If anybody wants to look at say a bottle of tomato sauce or a tin of baked beans, you will see the ingredients listed with the largest ingredient listed first. That is required by UK law (and possibly EU laws also).


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> Chicken mash is a mix of cereals of soy (soya) flour. In Portugal (and I think in the Uk) it is based on maize (corn) wheat and soya to add a little more protein. It also has added calcium and vitamins. In my view, that fed with a fresh mix of veg and fruit available at all times, makes an ideal diet for dubia and similar roaches. I don't think its important to feed a variety of veg/fruit every day, but try to use a range over the week. With any decent sized colony, it should be possible to add enough fruit/veg daily so that the vast majority is completely eaten within a 24 hour period.


I would agree with most of this, with the exception of using chicken feed without adjustments. Again, one of the major shortcomings you're looking to change with captive bred insects is a poor Ca ratio. Adding a good percentage of something like alfalfa to that dry mix increases the ratio and therefore the nutritional value of the insect.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Yes I know that Alfalfa is potentially a very good food for insects for the reasons you mention. But when I tried using it a few years ago, (added to the chicken mash), it seemed to be the one thing they wouldn't eat. 

Yours really like it ?


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> Yes I know that Alfalfa is potentially a very good food for insects for the reasons you mention. But when I tried using it a few years ago, (added to the chicken mash), it seemed to be the one thing they wouldn't eat.
> 
> Yours really like it ?


That's interesting, I've never had that problem with any of mine. They munch it down readily. Was it pellets or some other form you tried? Did you try blending it?


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I bought some rabbit pellets that from memory were pure alfalfa, but it might have been one of the mixes, that contain blended alfalfa. I mixed it with the chicken food and made a wet mash. The following day there was alot of green matter left in the feeder trays. It appeared the alfalfa had been selectively ignored. I might have been using it for Shelfordella tartara also, and I maybe it was those that didn't seem keen. I will buy some more and try again. I am not sure I 100% trust my memory. 

As I said earlier, I fully understand why it should be a very significant and beneficial ingredient to the diet of roaches.


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Id be interested to hear more about how it goes with another trial. I usually recommend it and if certain species or others colonies do not eat it or ignore it I should be more careful about recommending it so often I guess.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I will buy some more, and trial it again. I will post here the results.


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