# Celotex Background ?



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

I read a thread by a guy who used this stuff to make a background and it looked great and easy to use etc.. Just wondering if anyone can confirm if it is definitely safe to use in a lizard vivarium.
Im wondering if this might be a good material to use in stead of polystyrene or foam. Thanks in advance


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok , I just read something that suggests that it must stay dry at all times, so maybe not the best idea for a humid viv.


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Celotex/kingspan (all that stuff) is fine to use, in fact it's better in my opinion than polystyrene, easier to shape. You have to fully grout and seal like you would anyway. I spray my viv daily and have never had issues. Take a look at my build threads and you'll see plenty of images of it being used.


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Great. Thanks


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

look up for summint called plasticoat its a plastic varnish that seals the whole thing ul want the matt finish one and go into games work shop ......the one with all the geeky kids that havent found porn yet and use there paints as there non toxic acrylics


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> look up for summint called plasticoat its a plastic varnish that seals the whole thing ul want the matt finish one and go into games work shop ......the one with all the geeky kids that havent found porn yet and use there paints as there non toxic acrylics


It would be quick but expensive to cover the whole thing in plasticoat, do you know whether it would be fully proof against humidity? It may leach toxins and may also peel from the poly/celotex? I don't know, good idea though if its workable. I agree the acrylics from gamesworkshop will be fine, but will be extremely expensive, you're much better off using standard polyvine acrylic paints as they're not a specific colour to a major brand but are just as safe.


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Ive made a couple of polystyrene background for which I have used artists acrylics (which I have in abundance  ) so paint is no problem, I have been using polyvine decorators varnish as it was recommended to me, but would this be water proof enough for celotex ? would you seal the front back and sides or just the front and sides and seal it in place with silicone or something ?


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Fizz said:


> Ive made a couple of polystyrene background for which I have used artists acrylics (which I have in abundance  ) so paint is no problem, I have been using polyvine decorators varnish as it was recommended to me, but would this be water proof enough for celotex ? would you seal the front back and sides or just the front and sides and seal it in place with silicone or something ?


Waterproof enough with what? After grout it will be. You couldn't, for example paint straight on to the celotex then varnish. The way I do it is put the background in the viv, silicone it in, grout it all over then seal. So the backs aren't sealed just the visible area.


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

I see  Yes I would grout first. thnks for the advice


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

what kinda lizard is this build for?


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

An ackie


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Thought id hijack my thread. I need to seal some wood to go in the top of the viv. Can i just use any varnish or does it need to be a particular kind (i am speaking from a safety aspect for the lizard) if i can safely use any old varniah that o may have in my shed it would male this much simpler. Thanks


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Hey another question about the celotex... I have started using it to make a background but have noticed that it isnt completely flat so I guess when it goes into the tank it wont sit flat against the back wall  Im not sure if it was like this before I started or if it happened while I was carving anyway has anyone else had this problem and how did you counter it ? atm I have a welly balanced on each end in an attempt to weigh the ends back into shape.
thanks


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Hey another question about the celotex... I have started using it to make a background but have noticed that it isnt completely flat so I guess when it goes into the tank it wont sit flat against the back wall  Im not sure if it was like this before I started or if it happened while I was carving anyway has anyone else had this problem and how did you counter it ? atm I have a welly balanced on each end in an attempt to weigh the ends back into shape.
> thanks


when you are ready to permanently install the background place some wood/rods/sticks etc against the celotex corners and the viv wall with some flat wood/material in between the celotex and "rods" to prevent them piercing into the background. cheap type of Hxxx as Nxxxs from your £ shop will be ideal for the bonding of. I had the same problem with some décor as per pic:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks, will give this a try when the time comes 
Would a normal silicone be ok to use in there just to make sure the edges are sealed tight after installing it (want to make sure that damp substrate doesn't ruin the background) or is this not necessary ?


----------



## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

I use aquarium silicone to be safe. A word of caution though...
Even if a gap looks way too small for your pet or livefood to get behind, seal it anyway!
I missed a miniscule gap but my crestie managed to get behind it and well, look...



:lol2:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Does anyone use sand to coat over the grout to get a maybe more natural finish? I am also aware that it would mean that the whiole piece would be one flat colour though... hmm...

What about grout > varnish (to stick sand) > thin layer of sand in relevant places > Paint >seal again with varnish ?

or maybe paint and then sand in relevant places ? Just tssing around some idea to get a nice finish. Anyone have any interesting ideas ?


----------



## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

Just sprinkle it really lightly, or stick sand to the grout and then paint over it, or use stone effect spray 

I've been making backgrounds to sell with the princes trusts "will it work" grant because I'm hoping to sell them in my shop. I spent hours the other day carving one with a big buddha face and its flipping bowed :bash: I can't sell that to my customers so Ill use that in one of my own vivs and start again 

I think I've found a solution to the bowing issue however. Carve it with the foil on and just pick it off as you go. It seems to be the action of pulling the paper off in one go that stresses the board and causes it to bow. So far so good :2thumb:


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

The other way to stop bowing is to attach the rear of the celotex to a splint or board to keep it stiff, you can them remove the board at the end or just keep it there.


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Interesting that it would be related to pulling off the front.
Is hard as nails definitely safe to stick it in with? I picked some up today in the pound shop :2thumb:


----------



## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

Thats a good idea! I'll do that on the next one, I've got heaps of scrap wood lying around 

I should think so, I use no more nails which is the same thing :2thumb:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Oops, I meant no more nails :blush:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Regarding the bowing. Would it help to remove the aluminium from the back as well ? Or do you guys leave it on ?


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Regarding the bowing. Would it help to remove the aluminium from the back as well ? Or do you guys leave it on ?


:lol2: sorry but we got a bit of a chuckle from that.

yes take the alu off, it is what is probably causing the bowing too.

TIP: before you apply any paint/grout etc give it a once over with your hoover to remove the fine particles of dust.

good luck with the project and let's have a build thread going for it :2thumb:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks I will take the backing off now! 
1 more stupid question and then Im done  If I take the aluminium off so I ned to deal the back or is sealing the front and the edges sufficient? I just dont want to mess it up and have to rip it all out after a few weeks


----------



## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Fizz said:


> Thanks I will take the backing off now!
> 1 more stupid question and then Im done  If I take the aluminium off so I ned to deal the back or is sealing the front and the edges sufficient? I just dont want to mess it up and have to rip it all out after a few weeks


If all sides and edges are sealed then there should be no reason to seal the rear as it won't/shouldn't ever come in contact with anything. That being said unless its a large area it may be worth it for piece of mind. The rear of my big builds aren't sealed and I've never had an issue, not that I can see there!


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks 
I will crack on with it then. Will make a build thread for it too.
Wish me luck :2thumb:


----------



## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

I've decided I'm going to focus on selling interchangeable exo backgrounds in the shop, and doing bigger ones if anyone asks for custom work or building them in the viv and selling as a complete setup. When the shop's up and running there will obviously be time constraints so this seems the best of both worlds 

I've just finished painting the first one made to fit a 30x30x30 exo and I'm quite pleased with it. I'm going to create themed backgrounds and the first one is based on the stone age and has cave paintings  it looks a bit darker in the photo but I've used the dry brushing technique to highlight the high and low points


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Looks good :2thumb:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

I doubt if anyone is interested but I have started a blog for my Ackie story (mostly for my own entertainment but feel free to peek 
www.fizz.blog.com


----------



## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

As usually happens when I've got a project on the go, I decided I didn't like it. So I made some alterations and now it looks like this:



I'm still nitpicking but I've varnished it now so it's tough :lol2:


----------



## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Looks good. I think the cave paintings look much clearer now


----------

