# Turning negatives into positives!



## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I've been quite over the last month or so since the BAKS meet as we have had trouble with the housing assocation saying our exotics were fine and then saying they weren't, all because we lodged a complaint because there were glaring security issues in our area that need to be address.

In short I've had to part with a big chuck of my animals, but luckly have manged to hang on to most of my phibs and a few of my more special reptiles.

What it has allowed me to do, is something that I lost sight of when as my exotics collection increased, give my exotics as much space as I can, with huge vivs!. The housing assocation say I can only have so many viv set ups now...but they havnt said anything about the size of the said set ups! XD

My Duo of Whites Tree Frogs that have been living in a 60 x 45 x 60 exo terra are now going to be moved into a 90 x 45 x 90 that I bought off someone locally for £50, bargain! and are going to be joined by two others I rehomed the other day, really looking forward to getting to grips with the project but could do with some help.

I usually only use exo terra backgrounds but its about time I did something a bit more interesting, has anyone got any advice for covering all 3 sides, I've heard of gorilla glue and expanding foam but I'm not wholey confident with using that stuff, are there any websites with step by step instructions?


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## DaveWillisHertsARG (Jul 8, 2012)

*Massive well done*

Brilliant attitude, if that doesn't sound partonising! We can all get carried away with our collections and this might be the best thing you'll have done. Your resources will go further, you may see more natural behaviour and I'm sure the set-ups will be more impressive. Good work.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

What kind of tenancy do you have? Unless your animals are causing a nuisance, they can't dictate how many vivs you have in your home!


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

DaveWillisHertsARG said:


> Brilliant attitude, if that doesn't sound partonising! We can all get carried away with our collections and this might be the best thing you'll have done. Your resources will go further, you may see more natural behaviour and I'm sure the set-ups will be more impressive. Good work.


Nope, that what I thought, and it was what I promised myself when I first got into the hobby. What also help was taking out a year membership with Chester zoo, and seing thier large impressive set ups.

It came at a bad time (preparing for the second year of my Animal Biology and Conservation uni course) but I've learnt lessons, it was sad to say good bye to the ones that had gone, but it means I can start over. I've got a 6ft x 2 x 2 planned for my two plated lizards aswell as another 3ft x 3ft exo terra for my breeding pair of Day geckos.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> What kind of tenancy do you have? Unless your animals are causing a nuisance, they can't dictate how many vivs you have in your home!


Its a messy situation Ron, its acutally my Girlfriends flat....theres the problem there, you have to ask permission for any pet in a Riverside housing flat, we had missed that in the aggrement, however a few months back the housing officer visited us, and when asked if the pets were going to be a problem, they had said no. Our own fault for not getting it in writing :/


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## DaveWillisHertsARG (Jul 8, 2012)

bash_on_recce said:


> Nope, that what I thought, and it was what I promised myself when I first got into the hobby. _*What also help was taking out a year membership with Chester zoo, and seing thier large impressive set ups*_.
> 
> Brilliant idea.
> 
> It came at a bad time (preparing for the second year of my Animal Biology and Conservation uni course) but I've learnt lessons, it was sad to say good bye to the ones that had gone, but it means I can start over._* I've got a 6ft x 2 x 2 planned for my two plated lizards aswell as another *_3ft x 3ft exo terra for my breeding pair of Day geckos.


"Making of" and "final product" photos are obligatory!:2thumb: Are you going to do some planting?


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I will definity be planting the day gecko and whites vivs, I'd like to look at something with the Plated Lizards, especially with Spikebrits articles in PRK at the moment about planting in a arid set up.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Cork panels look natural and don't take up to much space. Cocci five is also good for live plants to grow over. You may get some ideas of alternative backgrounds at www.dartfrog.co.uk


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## lungz (Dec 30, 2009)

I've just introduced myself to flat coco fibre backgrounds. Fairly cheap and certainly worth a look. 

As for the housing. Unless you took on more than you than you can handle (nothing to be embarrassed about its easily done) or your flat looked like a scene from Indiana Jones then I don't see what the associations issue can be. 

I spent over 10 years with 2 associations until recently and there only concern amongst lizards scorpions other inverts and rats was the welfare of my cat. They had rules on pets too and I didn't ask permission. If the animals weren't dangerous or free range they didn't seem to care too much. 

It's done now mind so apologies if that comment is mis placed. Your doing the best thing upgrading what you have now though. If they think the animals are in their own penthouse they're unlikely to take issue. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

You have my sympathies Bash! We know what housing associations are capable of, we actually moved into a private rental back in April to get away from one! For example, we lodge a complaint against some neighbours after a guest of their threw an egg and my wife who was stood in our hall. The housing associations response was to find us in breach of our tenancy agreement under nuisance neighbour policies... All thanks to one housing officer type person, who we ended up lodging a complaint against...

They never tried to tell me to get rid of our animals though, just pulled their faces about them. Instead they wouldn't carry out repairs we needed and even tried to order us to have our cable modem moved claiming it was a fire hazard, even after we had a fire inspection done and the inspector told us it was fine... The place was indeed dangerous though, thanks to the huge gaps in the tops of the walls, plaster falling off walls and the state of the wiring in the place! We left the light fitting off in the living room when we moved out so they could see it for themselves!

My understanding though is that if an animal is in a cage, tank or vivarium you don't usually need permission as the permission is for animals that can cause damage to the property.

Sounds to me like you just got a housing officer willing to ignore the rules. Ours was too, but didn't work as we knew the rules. lol

Anyway, sounds like it's working out for your animals that you still have. 

Ade


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

I never thought I'd say it but thank god I have a mortgage lol. I feel for you Bash and Ade, I doubt I could cope with crap like that. I always thought if it was an animal in a tank or cage that housing associations couldn't do anything?

On topic that sounds like an awesome plan but what's making you want to cover 3 sides? My whites just have a background and they love sticking on the glass sides.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I'll keep you updared as I go, really looking forward to getting stuck into it, already planning on moving my trio of cubans into one this size and my breeding pair of Giant day Geckos.

Got alot of silicone to remove first (didnt like the old background) and reseal the bottom...may be some time.....


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I live in a HA flat, but the only thing my landlords worry about is dogs, which is one of the reasons I don't have one (commuting for a living is another!).

When I signed up all those years ago, I declared what I had, and the only thing they were worried about was the cat- so I had to go through the whole spiel about him being solely a house cat, always uses a litter tray, never goes outside even when he can, the neighbours won't even see him etc etc (actually, all these years later, one of my neighbours didn't even know I have a (different) cat, till I told them)! I was a bit worried about the birds, but the housing officer just said 'they're in cages, aren't they?' 'Yes', I said, thinking 'you've never lived next door to an African grey in full scream, have you?' :lol2:

Fortunately, no-one has ever seemed bothered about them.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Well here what I've got to work with, its covered in sealant and me being the perfectionist that I am, I want to get it as good as new to start working on :bash::








It looks worse that it actually is, these usually go for about £200-£250, so to get one for £50 I knew I'd have some work to do 

So far I've pretty much removed the sealant from one side today:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Oh, that's going to be spectacular! :2thumb::no1::2thumb:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been saying for the last few days I NEED to get a big tank so I can go mad with planting- even a 60x45x45 Exo seems small when you're chucking big broms in. I'm going to watch this with great interest/ jealousy :2thumb:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

ronnyjodes said:


> I've been saying for the last few days I NEED to get a big tank so I can go mad with planting- even a 60x45x45 Exo seems small when you're chucking big broms in. I'm going to watch this with great interest/ jealousy :2thumb:


They are great tanks, but this size is so expensive! I'm guessing it hasnt been around long enough for there to be many second hand ones, it has a different catch system on the lid too, more secure. 

I'm hoping to get two more in the future so I'm hoping I can strike it lucky again, but probably not.

I'm starting my second year of uni in a few weeks, until my loan comes in on the 19th progress will be slow, after scraping the sealant off with a razor blade on just the one side for th afternoon, I can barely feel my hands! :lol2:

I usually just throw in a exo terra background but want to try something different. Following the advice about clear sides, its just going to be the back panel thats going to be covered, whats best to use? Gorilla glue and eco earth? I wanted to create natural selves and places to put plants as well.


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

Get yourself to a poundland and get a window scraper. (Tesco sell em but for nearer £3) 








Worth their weight in gold when stripping anything off glass, it'll save your fingers and you'll whizz through it :2thumb:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Dartfrog sells silicone remover Miscellaneous Price List
I`ve not used it myself so no idea how good it is.

Mike


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> I usually just throw in a exo terra background but want to try something different. Following the advice about clear sides, its just going to be the back panel thats going to be covered, whats best to use? Gorilla glue and eco earth? I wanted to create natural selves and places to put plants as well.


With backgrounds it's different strokes for different folks. I tried Gorilla Glue and hated it- it didn't seem to foam up as much as I thought and it gets EVERYWHERE. For me expanding foam, silicone and eco earth is the best way if you're doing a background with ledges, caves or spaces for planters but on my next build I may well go for a more natural look and layer up some bits of cork bark and branches. Have a look through some of our build threads for some inspiration


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## rimonex (Dec 21, 2010)

frogman955 said:


> Dartfrog sells silicone remover Miscellaneous Price List
> I`ve not used it myself so no idea how good it is.
> 
> Mike



Works a treat :2thumb:, I used it once as I needed to take an ENT style viv apart to replace a broken side and it ate the sealent even in the tiny gaps between the sheets of glass, although it'd be expensive for doing that much sealent....


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice one Rimonex, very handy to know.

Mike


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

rimonex said:


> Works a treat :2thumb:, I used it once as I needed to take an ENT style viv apart to replace a broken side and it ate the sealent even in the tiny gaps between the sheets of glass, although it'd be expensive for doing that much sealent....


This is what I thought, well i've got some time before my loan comes through so back to work I think! xD


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Works been slow with me dying of flu over the weekend, loans come through and I have no idea what to do with it!

I've yet to remove the last lot of silicone on the back and get the last bit of one of the sides.

I have ordered some black aquarium sealant, just to go over the inside bottom as I took some out as I was cleaning.

I'm still unsure what I need to do the background, I'd like the expanding foam/ecoearth look so plants can grow on it but don't know where to start, I'm not very hands on with stuff at all xD


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> Works been slow with me dying of flu over the weekend, loans come through and I have no idea what to do with it!
> 
> I've yet to remove the last lot of silicone on the back and get the last bit of one of the sides.
> 
> ...


I've just finished doing exo terra 45x45x45 with the expanding foam and eco earth backing, and if you've never attempted it before, here is my few bits of advice.
expanding foam is lethal if your not any good with it. i plastered it all over the back and when i come back to check on it a few hours later, it had expanded out about 5-6inches, so dont plaster it on, just try and do a thin layer but cover the whole area :lol2:
also, dont wash any cloths with expanding foam on, in your sink/bath.
I did like a wolly after thinking it had dried up, and half hour later i had totally blocked my bath, and had to get my brother in law to come up and remove all the piping from under the bath to remove it.
and it had continued to expand due to the running water and it had become huge.
totally blocked the plug hole and most of the tube underneath haha.
once the expanding foam is totally done, you'll have some fun cutting it and shaping it how you want, but remember, once thats done, you'll need to smother it all with silicone, if thats the route you take, and that can be a messy job as well. the stuff is a nightmare. i had it all over me, and it starts to dry as soon as it comes out the gun.
so you need to plaster it on asap and then get the DRY eco earth all over it.
but good luck mate, your gonna need it :lol2:
unless of course your good with all that kind of stuff.
I wasnt and dont really plan on using it again.
my next build is going to be a clear inside i think, like ade's tanks.
i think once their packed out with branches ect, they look amazing, and also saves LOADS of space.
good luck though : victory:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Heart4Darts said:


> I've just finished doing exo terra 45x45x45 with the expanding foam and eco earth backing, and if you've never attempted it before, here is my few bits of advice.
> expanding foam is lethal if your not any good with it. i plastered it all over the back and when i come back to check on it a few hours later, it had expanded out about 5-6inches, so dont plaster it on, just try and do a thin layer but cover the whole area :lol2:
> also, dont wash any cloths with expanding foam on, in your sink/bath.
> I did like a wolly after thinking it had dried up, and half hour later i had totally blocked my bath, and had to get my brother in law to come up and remove all the piping from under the bath to remove it.
> ...


That's my prefered method,partly because I like to keep things simple and tanks reusable, partly 'cos I'm lazy! :lol2:

I have heard good things about gorilla glue; apparently it's easier to use than foam, and you put the substrate on damp for the best effect- but it's still too much faff for me!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

It doesn't mater too much if it expands more than you want, you just cut it away. An alternative to silicone is epoxy resin or elastapur the Ecco earth sticks better and it gives you more time to work with it. I had never used expanding foam before and have limited DIY skills but it turned out quite well for my thumbnail darts.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

So is Gorilla glue the same stuff as expanding foam?


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> So is Gorilla glue the same stuff as expanding foam?


 No, it's a glue that foams up when applied to water. I prefer expanding foam tbh.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Whats the best make of expanding foam to us?


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> Whats the best make of expanding foam to us?


All the same stuff really, just make sure its fire retardant : victory:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Heart4Darts said:


> All the same stuff really, just make sure its fire retardant : victory:


Correction, make sure it's NOT fire retardant!!! The fire retardant stuff contains very unpleasant chemicals that wont do frogs any good at all.

Ade


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I've ordered some Gorilla filler, hope its ok!


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Correction, make sure it's NOT fire retardant!!! The fire retardant stuff contains very unpleasant chemicals that wont do frogs any good at all.
> 
> Ade


WOW, well done for spotting that, my mistake. Should of put NOT after make sure it's.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Heart4Darts said:


> WOW, well done for spotting that, my mistake. Should of put NOT after make sure it's.


I figured that'd be it bud, but thought I'd better mention it quick. Otherwise I would have left it for you to add the not yourself. 

Ade


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Some great news at last, after months of fighting, the housing assocation have collapsed inwards with regards to the pets, we can keep 10 now! That easily covers what we have and then some!

I can get on with the tank building now


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> Some great news at last, after months of fighting, the housing assocation have collapsed inwards with regards to the pets, we can keep 10 now! That easily covers what we have and then some!
> 
> I can get on with the tank building now


 Brilliant news! :2thumb::no1::2thumb:


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Great news!


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## wayne the pain (Dec 28, 2007)

Congrats mate. :2thumb:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Right, new plan! I'm getting something else for the Whites since the sides of this viv are scratched a bit from getting the silicone off (probably a 90 x 45 x 60 for them) so this new build is for my Giant Day Geckos, but I'll keep the thread here because the Phib people are better with natural vivs 

I've given up on the expanding foam and have order 1L of Gorilla Glue and have a big bag of Exo terra tree fern stuff to put on it. I've seen your thread on using this stuff Ade, but can anyone give me any pointers? I'm going to be covering back and two side panels with it (each at a tome of course!).

This project has lagged too much and I want to get on with it, I've also got a 6ft x 2ft x 2ft in the works being made by Volly at the moment for my Plated Lizards and don't want my projects to backlog!

On a seperate note, I'd also considered (key word 'considered'!) keeping some Tomato frogs at the bottom with the Day geckos being arboreal and never really coming down to the floor, these require the same heat and humidity and come from roughly the same place in the wild, I have read into mixing species and don't go into this lightly! Anything I may have missed or if people think this is really really bad idea, plase let me know.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Wear gloves, put plastic sheets under the viv, only work on the horizontal surface. lol Oh and watch out if you have a dog that you don't drip any on it.....

As to mixing, staying well away from that can of worms bud, sorry.

Ade


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Good enough for me, just forget I ever mentioned the mixing, never liked the idea anyway.

I'll take some pictures as I do it on tuesday, should make for quailty entertainment after the episode with the testing of the expanding foam.....


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

....That didn't go well, I'm not sure if I didnt put enough glue on or didn't use enough water!

I've had to go over what I have done already so I'm not very confident its going to work now, I'm rubbish at hands on things!


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Yep, as I thought, gaps in the background, I used Exo terra tree fern mix. I'm thinking the viv was just too big to do something like this one, really screwed it up now :bash:


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

I was going to use tree fern mix on my next build. I got the exo terra soft mix but I think the pieces are too big so I going to sieve it and mix it with Ecco earth.

Show us some pics and we may be able to help salvage it.

Adam


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

fatlad69 said:


> I was going to use tree fern mix on my next build. I got the exo terra soft mix but I think the pieces are too big so I going to sieve it and mix it with Ecco earth.
> 
> Show us some pics and we may be able to help salvage it.
> 
> Adam


What he said. Get some pics up and we'll hash a few ideas together :2thumb:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I'll pop one up tomorrow morning, I've still got one side to go, maybe able to do something with it hopefully.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Just for the record, is it possible to remove Gorillia glue from glass?....


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> Just for the record, is it possible to remove Gorillia glue from glass?....


Yes it is, the damn stuff is useless.....


Well it became my P.Grandis new set up, heres the thread:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...-madagascar-day-gecko-build.html#post10719990


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