# EHS Norwich Show - Disappointing



## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

We attended today and was a tad disappoined. Not only was the venue very small, thus causing it to become very cramped, there was not really much on offer, unless you like your snakes or Geckos, and even then there were not that many due to the small number of tables.
Being only interested in lizards the only reptiles, beyond the snakes and geckos, were a handfull of beardies, a couple of cams, a tegu a couple of European Eyed Lizards and maybe one or two others. Even the amount of equipment and accessories on offer was minimal.

Being first time attendees, I did feel that this show was over hyped slightly, as being on par with some of the bigger ones. However, it was more like a small, overcrowded, "club meet and sell". The ERAC show, which is classed as one of the smaller shows, was/is twice the size of this one, plus some.

If you enjoyed this show, good luck to you. I am not posting this to undermine your enjoyment of the event, I am merely posting my thoughts and experiences of the show, according to my expections.

This means, a 200 mile round trip, £4pp admission and less than an hour inside (as there was nothing to tempt us to remain longer), made this, for us, a wasted, costly and very disappointing journey. One which we will probably never make again. We entered when the doors opened at 10:30am and we were back in the car and on our way home at 11:30am, and we were not alone. There were several people who were exiting at the same time as us an were all saying how disappointed they were and "never again".

It really is a shame because we were so looking forward to it.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Please remember these are breeders meetings so the animals for sale are dependant on what people have bred,thats no fault of the organisers.Most people are interested in Leopard Geckos , Royal Pythons etc so thats what you will find at these shows.They are not like the European shows where you see all kinds of weird and wonderful animals.


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## Austin Allegro (Oct 5, 2008)

If you don't mind sponsoring us for approximately £8,000 we can move the event into the grand exhibition hall at the showground which is about 3 times bigger than Doncaster and should provide plenty of leg space for everybody. In fact if you can see us right with 8 grand I am sure our committee would even move it to Newmarket racecourse which would then almost be a North London version of Kempton and probably entice breeders from far and wide with a wider range of stock. 

So until somebody wants to stump up some serious cash sponsorship the EHS will have to live within its means and stick with what we have got and which most of the local yokels from East Anglia are generally quite pleased with. 

As to the entrance fees and all the proceeds from yesterday from what was discussed yesterday they were reportedly all going to the IHS to help pay their legal costs for the injunction they took out last month to secure the Doncaster show.


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

I really have to disagree, I thought the show was very good indeed

Lots of different reptiles on offer and a very good turn out, I cant wait for next years


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## CREAKS Society (Jun 6, 2011)

I know you are only being truthful but you need to remember that reptile keepers are also there own worse enemy. 

Many moan about not having local shows, not even off them, yet when local ones are setup not enough people sponsor them. The fact now that theres 20+ reptiles,spider,amphibian shows in the UK means that not all breeders wish to travel all over for shows like they used to.

Many keepers now buy there frozen and live food and equipment from off the internet so the local petshops start to loose trade, so many do not wish to support local breeders meetings if the buyers there are not going to support them.

Finally as for the animals on sale it is again the same thing, the UK market demands the animals you see at shows. the weird and wonderful lizards,tortoises and snakes sadly do not sell, In the past i have seen people asking to see green tree pythons at shows and then when a breeder of them goes and sets up a table he makes nothing, but then when he adds a view corn snakes to the end of his table they instantly sell. That sadly is the market we have.

As I say, reptile keepers cause alot of the issues that arise without even knowing it.


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## Austin Allegro (Oct 5, 2008)

CREAKS Society said:


> I know you are only being truthful but you need to remember that reptile keepers are also there own worse enemy.
> 
> Many moan about not having local shows, not even off them, yet when local ones are setup not enough people sponsor them. The fact now that theres 20+ reptiles,spider,amphibian shows in the UK means that not all breeders wish to travel all over for shows like they used to.
> 
> ...


Spot on. Breeders who opt to produce less common species find it difficult to sell their surplus stock at the rarity price it deserves. Which all results in the standard reptile species on table after table at reptile shows.


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## CREAKS Society (Jun 6, 2011)

Austin Allegro said:


> Spot on. Breeders who opt to produce less common species find it difficult to sell their surplus stock at the rarity price it deserves. Which all results in the standard reptile species on table after table at reptile shows.


100% Agree. The issue with shows is people attend them to buy "bargins". Your not going to find highly stressed secretive lizards or snakes for sale rarely bred in the UK for £15. I think many need to remember the show is to sell "surplus" stock, not about displaying animals that won't sell.

I myself agree I do not like the standard of animals we have from UK shows, however there is alot of things in this world I do not like. Sometimes you have to just grin an bare it for the majority who do indeed like it.

Many breeders are very clever and understand how shows work, different shows have different buyers, different seasons when different things sell well, over the years you learn whats hot and whats not. Most breeders do breed all types of things but don't display them all at shows. If there is something a person wants then the best thing to do is post up a wanted thread asking for anyone attending if they have what you desire for sale or could bring with them to the show for preordered pickup.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

People sometimes forget that these breeders shows are run by club enthusiasts in their spare time ,not for financial benefit for themselves but for their club or society that they represent.On forums people are too willing to criticise the efforts of others.

On a side issue it seems that all most people want are shows and not the benefits that a club can bring.At shows you see people who wouldn`t think about supporting their local club,its much easier to dismiss the club on here rather than get involved.


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## Frosty2532 (Nov 30, 2010)

I though the show was superb, lots of good quality stock for sale and the event was well run; please remember that all shows should be well supported by all reptile enthusiasts. What is there on the day depends on who has booked tables and what surplus stock they have for sale on the day.

Many thanks to the organisers for putting on the event; roll on next year!


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

Don't get me wrong, people. If you were expecting a very small venue with just a "few bits and pieces" then fine. It lived up to your expectations. However, the Norwich show has been billed as being one of the major shows of the year. It is even listed on these forums with their own section in the "Reptile Shows and Meetings", along with seven others including Kempton. Now, there is no way we was expecting anything on the scale of Kempton but we was expecting something along the lines of ERAC, maybe. However, it did not even reach that scale and, therefore, it did not live up to our expectations. Had we known it was only a small scale affair we would not have travelled so far from home and left it to the more local attendees.
It was, indeed, very well attended. However, that was another of the events downfalls. There was no room to move. The walkways, between tables, was too narrow. I understand that the oraganisers need to balance the books but one of the headaches of organising an even such as this is getting the balance between table holders, attendees and venue size just right. On this occasion it failed. Venue was too small for the amount of attendees and too few table bookings to justify a more expensive hall.

Maybe the organisers need to look at what this show is really about, who it is for and, if the appropriate halls at the Royal Norfolk Showground are too expensive, look elsewhere (around Norwich or further afield) for an alternative, cheaper, venue as necessary.


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## Frosty2532 (Nov 30, 2010)

MCEE said:


> Don't get me wrong, people. If you were expecting a very small venue with just a "few bits and pieces" then fine. It lived up to your expectations. However, the Norwich show has been billed as being one of the major shows of the year. It is even listed on these forums with their own section in the "Reptile Shows and Meetings", along with seven others including Kempton. Now, there is no way we was expecting anything on the scale of Kempton but we was expecting something along the lines of ERAC, maybe. However, it did not even reach that scale and, therefore, it did not live up to our expectations. Had we known it was only a small scale affair we would not have travelled so far from home and left it to the more local attendees.
> It was, indeed, very well attended. However, that was another of the events downfalls. There was no room to move. The walkways, between tables, was too narrow. I understand that the oraganisers need to balance the books but one of the headaches of organising an even such as this is getting the balance between table holders, attendees and venue size just right. On this occasion it failed. Venue was too small for the amount of attendees and too few table bookings to justify a more expensive hall.
> 
> Maybe the organisers need to look at what this show is really about, who it is for and, if the appropriate halls at the Royal Norfolk Showground are too expensive, look elsewhere (around Norwich or further afield) for an alternative, cheaper, venue as necessary.


Hi, not wanting to agree nor disagree with your comments, as everyone is entitled to an opinion, and organising and running a show is not an easybthing o do, but one thing we have to remember is that when a show is planned, the organisers have no way of knowing how many tables will actually be booked; maybe there may be more tables booked and a bit more variety next year; the main thing is to support all shows, large and small to ensure that there is indeed a next year and subsequent years for those that wish to attend; this is important to keep our hobby alive for us all to enjoy.


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## Austin Allegro (Oct 5, 2008)

Well some people seemed to like it as we are receiving messages asking if there is another one planned for this year.


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## charlotte01 (Mar 15, 2008)

"However, that was another of the events downfalls. There was no room to move. The walkways, between tables, was too narrow. I understand that the oraganisers need to balance the books but one of the headaches of organising an even such as this is getting the balance between table holders, attendees and venue size just right. On this occasion it failed. Venue was too small for the amount of attendees and too few table bookings to justify a more expensive hall"

I would agree with this comment that the amount of people let in needs more attention due to being over crowded and mums with pushchairs in the aisle you cannot look properly and you get very hot and sweatly 

OTHER THEN THAT A VERY GOOD SHOW,WELL ENJOYED, GOOD PRICES ROLL ON NEXT YEAR :lol2:
AND CARRY ON DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING I CAN'T WAIT TILL THE CREAK SHOW


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## carlo69 (Apr 12, 2007)

charlotte01 said:


> "However, that was another of the events downfalls. There was no room to move. The walkways, between tables, was too narrow. I understand that the oraganisers need to balance the books but one of the headaches of organising an even such as this is getting the balance between table holders, attendees and venue size just right. On this occasion it failed. Venue was too small for the amount of attendees and too few table bookings to justify a more expensive hall"
> 
> I would agree with this comment that the amount of people let in needs more attention due to being over crowded and mums with pushchairs in the aisle you cannot look properly and you get very hot and sweatly
> 
> ...


I see you were not happy ,not the general opinion i would suggest. There is an answer you could join the EHS and have some input if you feel that it was not too your liking you could come to our meetings you can offer your experience and maybe draw from the clubs 20+ years of experience in putting on these events and come to a mutually beneficial conclusion:2thumb::2thumb:


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

I would have to agree with a lot of the sentiments that are expressed here. It is really easy to be 'disappointed' by something, especially if you go somewhere without doing a fair bit of research to find out as much as you can about it beforehand.

All shows are a lot of hard work, venue's are not easy to find, and for anyone who thinks those two things are the main components to putting on a show, you may wish to think a little bit more..... you only have to look at what a number of individuals had to do to ensure the June Doncaster show went ahead to realise that.

What I am sure most of us that are newer to herping do not realise unless they are actually an ACTIVE member of one of the organisations that have local meetings, breeders meetings etc., is the amount of pure hard work and MONEY you have to be able to put into these things in order to be able to keep them going.

We are indeed very lucky that a number of (some quite possible) smaller societies were in a position where they had enough in their 'rainy day savings' to be able to support both the IHS and the FBH in our recent struggle to get over the first hurdle in what I am sure will turn out to be an ongoing issue for herpers over the coming years. 

I don't think you do not have a point in some respects, but maybe just that you could have possibly researched the show and it's environs just a little bit more if you had certain expectations of it. I know full well I do not have the funds to travel where I want to just in order to be able to go to attend all of the events I would like to, therefore I ask a lot of questions beforehand in order to be able to make the best possible choice for what I can do..... no disrespect intended....... honest *****!:blush:


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## CREAKS Society (Jun 6, 2011)

MCEE said:


> Don't get me wrong, people. If you were expecting a very small venue with just a "few bits and pieces" then fine. It lived up to your expectations. However, the Norwich show has been billed as being one of the major shows of the year. It is even listed on these forums with their own section in the "Reptile Shows and Meetings", along with seven others including Kempton. Now, there is no way we was expecting anything on the scale of Kempton but we was expecting something along the lines of ERAC, maybe. However, it did not even reach that scale and, therefore, it did not live up to our expectations. Had we known it was only a small scale affair we would not have travelled so far from home and left it to the more local attendees.
> 
> Maybe the organisers need to look at what this show is really about, who it is for and, if the appropriate halls at the Royal Norfolk Showground are too expensive, look elsewhere (around Norwich or further afield) for an alternative, cheaper, venue as necessary.


I do not mean to cast judgement over you at all, but the issue alot of the time is it's easier to complain than to understand the reasons. I am a firm believer in do not moan about something unless your prepared to help change it.
Of course the show is going be billed as a large show, it would simply be silly if they went along with " our show is pretty crap and small but please still attend". You would not believe the amount of breeders and suppliers who drop out on the morning of the show. Imagine the volume of time wasters you have when your trying to sell a snake? Well this happens at shows aswell, breeders just change there mind last minute, you then have all other policies you have to make sure are in place. 

For buyers the show starts at 11am, for the organisers it starts 3 months beforehand.
Of course the show has its own section because its, well a reptile show so deserves to be in the reptile show section. You can segregate because which is good and which is bad based purely on size, if we did alot of the guys on the forum would certainly have something to say about that 

You have made many good points such as renting different places, and te crowd control. However when only 5% of the establishments around are large enough to use and then only 1% of them will even hear you out about putting on a reptile show, it makes it hard to firstly find a place then secondly afford to hire it.
I hear so often how people want more reptile shows, I personally strongly disagree because all it does it create less people willing to travel less distance for shows and thus making the shows not as good turnouts. Yet it is about supply and demand, you demand more shows so we give you more but in all honesty for the people who spend 4 months of there life having sleepless nights and stressing out over the events to make them good for the reptile community, its extremely depressing when you put your life pretty much on hold for 4 months of the year and get nothing back out of it, 99.5% of the people who attend the shows wouldn't even have a clue who put all these shows together, its a thankless task that gets less appreciated of each year.

Chris Newman and Richard Brook were thanked heavily for the work they did and continue to do for our hobby and rightly so, but its the other people behind the scenes that never get thanked then have to log onto here to read comments like this which makes you wonder is it worth bothering with another show ?

Your last comment is properly the best and most commonly read one on a variety of forums and Facebook groups. If you new it was going to be a small scale then we would not have attended. It is for reasons like this why many shows are billed as being great, because if not then they make no money at all, they then can't get different and bigger venues and they can't put shows on the following year. For some people they love the show, for others they don't but if only local people attend then they get minimum support. Doncaster, Hamm, Houten, they may all be of a good size but they didn't get to it over night and without any funding either.
I 100% understand your issues I really do but do you not think maybe addressing one of the multiple committee members whom use the forum might have been better than publicly saying all this as some may see this and say " I heard on rfuk last year was crap so I won't go again this year".

If you want shows to be better and bigger and have more selection then help support them.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Personally (this being said im a massive child at heart) im really excited about the upcoming kiddi show. If at the end of the day if i walk out having bought nothing and it not being what i expected atleast thats 6 quid towards a good cause and i get to have a good nose around what other people have and are working on! I travel to pet shops to do this too so i would definitely return to do the same time and again. I guess when you're looking for something specific or a widder range it pays to talk to people who have been before to see what they thought and what was there or to put a deposit down etc. Having not gone to the show in the OP though i cant really comment on how bad/good it was, still sounds like a good day out for 4 quid entry though :2thumb:


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

CREAKS Society said:


> I do not mean to cast judgement over you at all, but the issue alot of the time is it's easier to complain than to understand the reasons. I am a firm believer in do not moan about something unless your prepared to help change it.


Being critical about something can, and often does, influence how things will be "improved" in the future. Being critical, therefore, is my contribution to help change things. However, it all hangs on whether the criticisms are listened to and taken on board in the first place.



> Of course the show is going be billed as a large show, it would simply be silly if they went along with " our show is pretty crap and small but please still attend". You would not believe the amount of breeders and suppliers who drop out on the morning of the show. Imagine the volume of time wasters you have when your trying to sell a snake? Well this happens at shows aswell, breeders just change there mind last minute, you then have all other policies you have to make sure are in place.
> 
> For buyers the show starts at 11am, for the organisers it starts 3 months beforehand.


Thats that's the event organising game for you.



> I hear so often how people want more reptile shows, I personally strongly disagree because all it does it create less people willing to travel less distance for shows and thus making the shows not as good turnouts.


I agree that you cannot spread things too thinly. A few large, well organised events are better than dozens of wannabe events.



> Yet it is about supply and demand, you demand more shows so we give you more but in all honesty for the people who spend 4 months of there life having sleepless nights and stressing out over the events to make them good for the reptile community, its extremely depressing when you put your life pretty much on hold for 4 months of the year and get nothing back out of it, 99.5% of the people who attend the shows wouldn't even have a clue who put all these shows together, its a thankless task that gets less appreciated of each year.


If it is that depressing then why do it? Organisers choose to do it. They do it because they probably enjoy doing it. However, they must also remember every event organised is a gamble. If the gamble does not pay off then the organisers must be tough enough to write it off to experience and, if they want to do it again, try better next time. The success of an event, whether it be for the sale of reptiles or caravans, is never guaranteed. However, organisers must be prepared for lows as well as the highs and if they cannot handle the lows then they are in the wrong game.



> Chris Newman and Richard Brook were thanked heavily for the work they did and continue to do for our hobby and rightly so, but its the other people behind the scenes that never get thanked then have to log onto here to read comments like this which makes you wonder is it worth bothering with another show ?


Then, again, I have to ask why the organisers do it if it is not for love of the hobby. If I enjoy doing something or help others, I do it because I want to, not for the praise it may bring.



> If you new it was going to be a small scale then we would not have attended. It is for reasons like this why many shows are billed as being great, because if not then they make no money at all, they then can't get different and bigger venues and they can't put shows on the following year. For some people they love the show, for others they don't but if only local people attend then they get minimum support. Doncaster, Hamm, Houten, they may all be of a good size but they didn't get to it over night and without any funding either.


The organisers need to ask themselves what they want to acheive. Do they eventually want a large show similar to Kempton or Doncaster and have people travel long distances to attend or do they want a small local show.
If the organisers booked a small venue, such as in the case of the Norwich show, and have to turn away table bookings then the following year, if they want the show to to be bigger and better, they must take the gamble and book a bigger (and sometimes more expensive) venue, even if they have to work harder to try and fill it. OK, so there is no guarantee that tables will be booked but, again, that is event organisation game for you. 
If organisers choose for the event to remain small and stay in the same venue year in, year out, even if they still means having to turn away table bookings, then the organisers have no right to bill it as a major show. If they struggle to fill the small venue every year then it is only destined to be a minor/local show anyway and should not be billed any differently.

If the show remains small, for whatever reasons, and thus does not attract breeders and, in turn, does not attract buyers, maybe it would then be time to give it up.




> I 100% understand your issues I really do but do you not think maybe addressing one of the multiple committee members whom use the forum might have been better than publicly saying all this as some may see this and say " I heard on rfuk last year was crap so I won't go again this year".


Does this mean theatre critics should not publish their opinion and only approach the director of a play in the hope his next one will be better. I think not, so I merely gave a public review based on my personal experiences of the EHS show. This is why we have open forums and other publicly accessible media.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Hi ‘MCEE’
I just wanted to address some of the points and criticisms you’ve raised.

The EHS has been running breeder’s shows since 1990 making us the longest continual show organising UK club – we missed one in the 2000’s due to a school closure and failure to secure a subsequent venue. 

The shows are run primarily to raise funds for our Society (currently 16 members!) and to allow us to donate money to worthy causes. This year we are donating proceeds to the FBH fighting fund.
It is worth noting that the show also allows us to sponsor the Kempton Park event.
Without sponsorship from Societies, the money from which comes from our own ‘small’ shows, there would be *NO* Kempton Park event..

You seem like a lizard orientated keeper and I’m sorry you felt ‘_there __was not really much on offer_.’ Apart from the many bearded dragons, leopard geckos and crested geckos – oh and the Tunisian Eyed Lizards you obviously missed the CB tokay geckos, Day Geckos, Uroplatus, Panther & Yemen’s Chameleons, Earless Dragons and Uromastyx!?

The shows are for breeders to pass on captive bred animals and as has been said in this thread the variety on offer is limited only by what UK breeders are currently breeding.
As for ‘_Even the amount of equipment and accessories on offer was minimal_.’ There was a table stocking the entire Habistat/Euro-Rep range of equipment, supplements and substrates, another selling handling equipment and of course Custom Aquaria with their excellent range of glassware/viv? 
Not forgetting the tables selling the wide range of live viv suitable plants?

Re the venue, we are lucky to have the support of the Royal Norfolk Showground. As an animal orientated venue they welcome our event.
In terms of table numbers the show was approximately the same size as the other non IHS/Kempton shows with around 70 tables taken.
The turn-out this year however was exceptional. Our biggest turn out yet. While it was very busy, it was no more crowded than the IHS or downstairs at Kempton and well within the agreed fire limit.​ 
I should also add we had positive feedback from the table holders with 19 already requesting tables for next year’s show (which will be in the same hall but with a slightly different entry/table lay-out design.)​ 
I don’t accept that the show was ‘billed’ as anything other than the EHS Show Norwich. Yours is actually the only negative feedback we have received, against hoards of positive feedback, but rest assured your ‘wasted’ entrance money will help allow the FBH to fight another corner and entertain you at the Kempton Park event.
Caz.​


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

Caz said:


> You seem like a lizard orientated keeper and I’m sorry you felt ‘_there __was not really much on offer_.’ Apart from the many bearded dragons, leopard geckos and crested geckos – oh and the Tunisian Eyed Lizards you obviously missed the CB tokay geckos, Day Geckos, Uroplatus, Panther & Yemen’s Chameleons, Earless Dragons and Uromastyx!?​



You can try and dress it up all you like but take away obligatory snakes, leos and cresties, there was very little to tempt anybody but the newbies, which is fine if you are into these species. Besides, who am I to take away from the enjoyment these people experienced. And yes, I did, indeed, see a "handful" (and it really was only a token handful) of other species. However, I did not see any uromastyx. Maybe I was being jostled at the time or they had already been sold. 



> The shows are for breeders to pass on captive bred animals and as has been said in this thread the variety on offer is limited only by what UK breeders are currently breeding.


Agreed. However, if other breeders were to want to bring their "more diverse" or "specialised" animals, how would you accomodate them when the small amount of "available" space is dominated by snakes and geckos. I am not saying that these reptile shows should fit around what buyers want, I am mearely saying that because of the size of the event their is little probability of the show being more diverse in species than it is. Because of this I do not feel I will be making the effort to return another year. It was not worth my while this time and it is quite unlikely that it will be worth my while next time, or the time after that. And that, really, was the basis of my post.



> As for ‘_Even the amount of equipment and accessories on offer was minimal_.’ There was a table stocking the entire Habistat/Euro-Rep range of equipment, supplements and substrates, another selling handling equipment and of course Custom Aquaria with their excellent range of glassware/viv?
> Not forgetting the tables selling the wide range of live viv suitable plants?


Thats about four or five tables worth.



> In terms of table numbers the show was approximately the same size as the other non IHS/Kempton shows with around 70 tables taken.


The ERAC show, at least, is definately bigger, and more comfortable at it's current venue.
​


> Yours is actually the only negative feedback we have received, against hoards of positive feedback, but rest assured your ‘wasted’ entrance money will help allow the FBH to fight another corner and entertain you at the Kempton Park event.​


OK, so it was good for those who thought it was good. Who am I to disagree with their experiences. If you were happy with it, and the majority of the table holders and attendees were happy, then then what is there to worry about. You do not have to justify yourselves, or that of those who attended, to me. I merely posted a review as I, personally, experienced it and my views are obviously not those of everybody.
However, I will say this, walking back between the venue and the car we came across a few other disgruntled attendees getting into their cars and complaining about the lack of space and how small it was. One couple were even heard saying "never again".
So just because I am the only one to offer my views on the forum it does not mean there were not others who may also have been disapointed. People may not necessarily voice their opinion with words but may do so by not attending the show again.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

MCEE said:


> You can try and dress it up all you like but take away obligatory snakes, leos and cresties, there was very little to tempt anybody but the newbies, which is fine if you are into these species. Besides, who am I to take away from the enjoyment these people experienced. And yes, I did, indeed, see a "handful" (and it really was only a token handful) of other species. However, I did not see any uromastyx. Maybe I was being jostled at the time or they had already been sold.
> 
> Agreed. However, if other breeders were to want to bring their "more diverse" or "specialised" animals, how would you accomodate them when the small amount of "available" space is dominated by snakes and geckos. I am not saying that these reptile shows should fit around what buyers want, I am mearely saying that because of the size of the event their is little probability of the show being more diverse in species than it is. Because of this I do not feel I will be making the effort to return another year. It was not worth my while this time and it is quite unlikely that it will be worth my while next time, or the time after that. And that, really, was the basis of my post.
> 
> ...



Can I ask what it was you were actually expecting?
What animals were you specifically trying to source? How many breeders did you talk to in order to source the specific animals you were looking for?
If you were not looking for something specific, why didn't you research the venue, number of tables, expected stocks etc before deciding to travel that far for a 'bit of a mooch'?
If you were looking for something specific, why didn't you research the venue, number of tables, expected stocks etc before deciding to travel that far to source the animal?


You seem to be complaining that there wasn't 'enough' there to satisfy the 'non-noobie', yet I can't for the life of me work out that if you aren't actually said 'noobie' why you wouldn't know exactly what to expect?


Going for a mooch? Expect corns, leos, royal, boas and beardies with a few interesting 'others'

Going for something specific? Do your homework.


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

bothrops said:


> Can I ask what it was you were actually expecting?
> What animals were you specifically trying to source? How many breeders did you talk to in order to source the specific animals you were looking for?
> If you were not looking for something specific, why didn't you research the venue, number of tables, expected stocks etc before deciding to travel that far for a 'bit of a mooch'?


Actually, I am after several animals. However I did not particularly visit the show to buy from my wish list as they normally only turn up at the largest events. But I did go for a 'bit of a mooch', as it happens, on the off chance that you never know. I even wanted to get a huge load of natural vine, moabi, driftwood, bark tubes, large ceramic/earthenware feeding bowls etc... very little of any of this this on the day.

You are correct in saying that I should have researched the venue a bit better but all indications (RFUK and other forum posts, EHS website and other references) seemed to big it up and led me to believe that this show was at least on a par with other regional shows. Queue my disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I am not critical to the point where I do not believe the organisers did not deliver what they set out to deliver, I was merely tendring my disappointment that it did not live up to my expectations (regardless from where these expectations were seeded). 



> You seem to be complaining that there wasn't 'enough' there to satisfy the 'non-noobie', yet I can't for the life of me work out that if you aren't actually said 'noobie' why you wouldn't know exactly what to expect?


Ref, Noobie/newbie as in new to reptile keeping not as in new to these events.
Besides, I am not complaining, I am expressing disappointment. There is a difference.



> Going for a mooch? Expect corns, leos, royal, boas and beardies with a few interesting 'others'


Trouble is there really was not much to "mooch" let alone any room to do so .


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

To be fair, it was a small venue, but we went to Kempton last year, and for a 'bigger' show, there still wasn't a lot of room to move in some parts, the middle aisle especially! I think someone had actually collapsed when we went through there, so I think the size of the venue is irrelevant, I've never been to a show where I've been able to get to tables or generally move about easily. It probably had the same proportion of equipment that you see at other shows, obviously being a smaller show the proportion is less. As far as snakes went I thought there was just as much variety as you see at some of the bigger shows, just on a smaller scale. 
Saying to take a gamble on a bigger venue is easy when it's not your money that's being spent. Let's say they take a gamble and not as many people as hoped take it up, there will still be people moaning because there was such a big room and nothing in it. I guess it's down to the organisers to determine whether the request for tables is worth moving to a larger building. 
I've been to large shows that haven't had much variety, (8 hour round trips but I'm not moaning!) but time of year has an impact and what's popular. How many breeders are going to invest in their time and money to sell a species that they might sell one of to a 'non-noob' keeper, when they can sell 10 of another popular species to a 'noob' keeper. 
I personally think it makes a nice day out, you never know what you might find. Let's be honest there's no pleasing everyone.


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