# Designer dogs - good or bad idea?



## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

Personally, the only 'designer' dogs I believe in, are anything with 'oodle' on the end (due to my allergies) and maybe some others that I've forgotten about. What does everyone else think?

Thanks for any replies : victory:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

eoj89 said:


> Personally, the only 'designer' dogs I believe in, are anything with 'oodle' on the end (due to my allergies) and maybe some others that I've forgotten about. What does everyone else think?
> 
> Thanks for any replies : victory:


What about cockapoos? Wouldn't be without mine!


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## Rogue665 (Mar 17, 2010)

eoj89 said:


> Personally, the only 'designer' dogs I believe in, are anything with 'oodle' on the end (due to my allergies) and maybe some others that I've forgotten about. What does everyone else think?
> 
> Thanks for any replies : victory:


ok your first mistake......not all oodles are hypoallergenic infact less than 20% of them are. It takes allot of testing the pups to see if they are so you can't get them from just any common breeder sometimes not even kc breeders,ask for medical records of the tested pup first..or their ripping you off.
Again back yard breeders use these terms to make a sale.
Anyways no i don't like any breeder atm


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Agreed - they aren't! 

Maybe you should read this eoj89?? First dog breeder of Labradoodle puppies regrets dog breed | Global Animal


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Back in the day any cross breed was a mongrel! They didn't have silly names or sell for silly prices.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

I don't have a problem with cross breed dogs, though obviously dog breeding should be taken seriously before undertaken.

What I do have a problem with, is people who breed two breeds, stick the names together, and sell them for hundreds to turn a profit.

It took years to create the labradoodle, which can be recognised as a breed, and they had very specific reasons for doing so.

Breeding a jack russel to a chihuahua and calling it a jackahuahua does not mean it is worth 300 quid. It means the owners stuck two dogs together to make money.

Really winds me up.


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## Sammyb (Jan 30, 2012)

i recently had to help out at a micro chipping event for a large dogs charity and it really annoyed me the amount of people that came in to get there dog chipped and filled out the breed on the form as jack-cavie or yorkie-poo or said 'they dont have puggell listed as a breed on your form?!?' and then proceeded to tell me how they had spent hundreds of pounds on this exotic breed! dont get me wrong i love cross breeds and would have a cross breed over a pedigree dog any day(mainly due to the health problems associated with pedigrees), but i would say its a cross breed not a spandoodlerussellador!
rant over


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

If it's the naming you have an issue with, then I'm sorry but much as I cringe whenever I say "cockapoo", it's just easier than saying "cocker spaniel, miniature poodle cross". 

If it's the cash you have an issue with, well an animal is always worth whatever anyone is prepared to pay for it (that's what gets said time and again in the reptile sections of this forum).

Personally, I would rather put two breeds together and get the best of both (i.e cockapoo) than have certain types of KC pedigree breed that have many congenital disorders but are still considered to be "champions" at the annual Crufts freak show (pekinese/pugs), or like bulldogs/bull terriers/pugs/bassets which have been mutated out of all recognition from the handsome dogs that they used to be 100 years ago! Admittedly, some mixes don't make very nice dogs, because you end up with the worst of both breeds.

Just the way I see it, and I know the purists will slam me for it, but I don't care 'cos I love my dog


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I can see the reasoning and thinking behind the Labradoodle (and maybe Cockerpoo) and even so the original creator regrets it, they seem to be becoming a recognized breed (unfortunately to the extend that more and more seem to be appearing in rescue shelters). 
What I don't agree with is the USP being "the best of both breeds". How would that even be possible? If you breed a Pug and a Beagle with the intention to create the perfect laid back dog, there is a big chance you'll get a dog with a high prey drive but not the stamina to follow through, therefore a very bored and frustrated dog. Sell that dog to the wrong person and there'll be trouble. It'll take generations before a typical breed character (inside and out) can be established.
What I also don't agree on is that making up a funky name seems to be an excuse for sellers to charge a fortune for puppies that wouldn't have cost the "breeder" that much to rear (let's be honest, IMO 9 out 10 "let's make some money and randomly produce puppies" sellers don't do any of the tests and checks a proper breeder does, therefore don't spend more money than vets and food on the litter). But then again the same goes for the casual "pedigree" breeders who randomly mate 2 dogs of the same breed without carrying out any proper checks, yet charge the same as accredited breeders. 
IMHO, it's not what you breed, it's how you do it. If you take Dame a) and Sire b) from the same breed or 2 breeds that match (as adorable as they look, who ever though Pomskies where a good match?), why not make sure they have a healthy family history (hereditary illnesses can skip generations) and are of sound character? And be honest with the buyers. Doodles are NOT 100% hypoallergenic, Puggles are NOT 100% laid back family dogs, etc.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

It all just comes down to personal taste. After all, that's how pedigree breeds became what they are. Maybe this is just the next step in the story of dogs? I wonder how many of the people sharing these purist views are into collecting different royal python morphs, including the types with hereditary neurological disorders?


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

BMo1979 said:


> (as adorable as they look, who ever though Pomskies where a good match?)


Are you referring to this picture? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_1LE9a-sIbg/UlX5CCug_6I/AAAAAAAAJuw/UxgWlvW5A4A/s640/Pomsky-puppy.png Because this is apparently a Finnish Lapphund named Tequila, when she was a pup, so Pomskies could just be a myth, to be honest. I don't like them anyway, they're not my cup of tea.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

The main problem I have with 'designer' dogs, is not so much designer vs. pedigree but more that it has opened the gates for people who would not normally have bred to see that there is money to be made from any, random, untested dog.

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/police-rspca-officers-raid-suspected-6678786
You can no longer see the video or a lot of the photos it seems but there was a massive raid on a puppy farm where they were breeding all crosses, selling them as the healthy dogs 'hybrid vigor' that people will say and believe and then they were dying not long after.

No one really seems to be thinking about the traits of each breed before they match them up. Like husky crosses that just want to run and run like a husky wants to. Husky cross Corgi?! a dog with almost no legs that just wants to run. Or cross Pugs, that have high energy and then can't breathe? When it started at least Labrador and poodles were both working dogs of equal energy and similar traits.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

As said its not what you breed its how you breed it. 
If the breeds used in a cross both have the same health problems there pups are just as likely to get them as a purebreed. Then if breeding the crosses to the same types of crosses there pups are just as likely to get the rest of the health problems in the starter breeds even the ones not in both breeds. sadly there are to many crap breeders not health testing there dogs or thinking about what there breeding to what, only thinking about money in both pure and cross breeds.

The current fashion in crossbreeding has ment far more people breeding with no health tests and the dogs are the ones who suffer for it.

Take the cockerpoo due to health problems popping up because of the majority of breeders not testing some got together to start the Cockapoo Club of GB to promote health and welfare for all types of cockerpoos, they have a list of approved breeders who for F1 crosses must do the DNA test for pra, F2+ they must also test for Phosphofructokinase (if they have American cocker in them) and Familial Nephropathy (if they have English cocker in them). They also recommend testing for Glaucoma, hip scoring, Retinal Dysplasia and Von Willebrand disease Type 1

So those types of breeders who are breeding crossbreeds I have no problem with, it's bad breeding I don't like.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Well my dog is an alaskan shepherd, a crossbreed of a malamute and a german shepherd, theyve been being bred for many years, started out as two breeds crossed to create a stronger, bigger dog to pull heavier sleds, but also be better guard dogs due to the gsd part. Mine is great, really friendly with everyone and all other animals, alright shes being a little sod at the minute due to her hitting adolescence, but wouldnt change her for the world, crossbreeds can be the most wonderful dogs if you get the best of both breeds. I dont believe in all the different mixes etc and then being sold as something new, especially when the two breeds involved are so very different in size etc, but where their is supply there's demand. Bit like the snake breeders to. 
My breed of dog is now a registered breed in the usa and germany and a few other countries , and they are trying to get it recognised over here now as well, but lets face it, all dogs breeds came from this cross breeding etc, one are fully what their breed name is, and if people want to pay stupid money for them thats their choice, just a pity to many unscrupulous people out there have jumped on the band wagon to make a quick quid.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

mitsi said:


> crossbreeds can be the most wonderful dogs if you get the best of both breeds.


For me, this is the point though. If you get the best of both breeds in terms of health problems, temperament, personality etc you get a bloody good dog in most cases.

However, if you get the worst of both breeds in the same terms, you get a nightmare.


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## repnanny (Aug 12, 2010)

ve been reading this in disbelief. Where I come from a crossbreed is, has always been and always will be a MONGREL. Never mind the breeders, they are only responding to idiots who are willing to pay stupid amounts of money to fuel their own snobbery. There always have been mongrels (I have owned many by the way) and there always will be, the answer is to put a stop to the oneupmanship. A mongrel is a crossbreed is a mongrel regardless of the human vanity and snobbery, it dosnt matter if you call it a labradoodle, pugwaller or wombattyug its still a mongrel.


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

'Designer dogs' are, by any definition, MONGRELS!

The buyers stupid enough to pay top money for them - gullible is one word.

Many 'designer' breeds merely combine the worst factors of both breeds - purely because the breeders know nothing about the breeds or their faults!

And their idiocy - and greed - in producing these abysmal mongrels should be banned.

Most of the 'Designer Dog' breeders are in breach of local Council rules, and are no better than 'puppy farmers'.

Having kept pedigree dogs for 60+ years - I'm biased! But equally, the ignorant 'now-it-alls' who prattle on about how breeds have been 'damaged' by breeding have very little knowledge of the subject matter and merely reiterate what they have seen or heard elsewhere - such as a well known 'pseudo-charity'!


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

duffey1 said:


> 'Designer dogs' are, by any definition, mongrels.
> 
> 
> every dog out there is a mongrel, its been proven, the only pure breed canine out there is a wolf. So what you are saying in the rest of your post is that yes people are gullible when paying extortionate amounts for crossbreeds, but that also means they are justas gullible when paying the extortionate amounts so called pure breed breeders charge as well.


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Mitsi,

Get your facts right before posting!

Why bring in a Wolf - it is not domesticated! "the only pure breed canine out there is a wolf" - I think you will find that there are a considerable number of 'pure breed canines' - not just one! The Domestic Dog is classified as a totally different species. And the domestic dog, for simplicity is divided into two categories - Pedigrees (which in most cases were developed over the centuries for specific purposes) and cross-breeds (Mongrels)

When you understand the basics of breeding good quality pedigree dogs (or cats for that matter) - maintaining the bitch, stud fees, proper feeding of bitch prior to whelping, proper feeding of pups, vaccinations and vets fees - then you are qualified to comment! As it stands you're spouting garbage!


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

duffey1 said:


> Mitsi,
> 
> Get your facts right before posting!
> 
> ...


I stated a wolf as its the original canine, didnt once say its domesticated, its been proven by dna testing that everysingle dog out there has at least two breeds of dog in them, thus making them all mongrels. Unless of course two different breeds of dog dont make a mongrel. And I dont need to understand breeding to either have an opinion on this or state facts that I read etc about dogs in general, dna testing was carried out on a large majority of pedigree dogs and all were found to have different percentages of other breeds in their dna, therefore making them mongrels as well.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

repnanny said:


> ve been reading this in disbelief. Where I come from a crossbreed is, has always been and always will be a MONGREL. Never mind the breeders, they are only responding to idiots who are willing to pay stupid amounts of money to fuel their own snobbery. There always have been mongrels (I have owned many by the way) and there always will be, the answer is to put a stop to the oneupmanship. A mongrel is a crossbreed is a mongrel regardless of the human vanity and *snobbery*, it dosnt matter if you call it a labradoodle, pugwaller or wombattyug its still a mongrel.


You say it's "snobbery"…..well I'm sorry, but there is no-one more snobby about dogs than the pedigree devotees that rant and rave about the crossbreed market! Teasing and backcombing their precious mutated pooches to within an inch of their lives and prancing around show-rings, and looking down their noses at everyone else.

A rather hypocritical comment there methinks: victory:


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> You say it's "snobbery"…..well I'm sorry, but there is no-one more snobby about dogs than the pedigree devotees that rant and rave about the crossbreed market! Teasing and backcombing their precious mutated pooches to within an inch of their lives and prancing around show-rings, and looking down their noses at everyone else.
> 
> A rather hypocritical comment there methinks: victory:


it's like they're the katie hopkins of the dog hobby :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Mitsi,

Perhaps you can enlighten readers with the actual report on DNA?

It is apparent that you believe in 'bullshit baffles brains'! 

There are 39 subspecies of Canis Lupus - including Canis lupus familiaris, the Domestic dog.

According to an expert (a very well respected Veterinary Surgeon) on DNA, a DNA test will NOT define the breed of dog - would you care to elaborate on your source?

Or, perhaps you fail to understand the difference between species, sub-species and breeds!


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> You say it's "snobbery"…..well I'm sorry, but there is no-one more snobby about dogs than the pedigree devotees that rant and rave about the crossbreed market! Teasing and backcombing their precious mutated pooches to within an inch of their lives and prancing around show-rings, and looking down their noses at everyone else.
> 
> A rather hypocritical comment there methinks: victory:


Actualy there is snobbery on both sides. You get the people in pedigrees who think all crossbreeds and mongrels are rubbish, shouldn't exist and their dogs are better, then you have the people In crossbreeds and mongrels who think all pedigrees are unhealthy mutants and their dogs are better.

Then you get the down to earth people on both sides who can see past the broad labels thrown about and recognise its not the name of the dog type it's how it was bred.
A poorly bred pedigree is just as bad as a poorly bred crossbreed, as is a well bred cross breed is just as good as a well bred pedigree.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

So in that case, pricing and silly names shouldn't be a factor! If people were truly not snobby, then the only reason anyone on this thread should be disagreeing with "designer dogs" (I hate that term) would be on the grounds of irresponsible breeding....which I'm sure is something we can all agree on.

As irresponsible breeding goes on with pedigrees just as much (if not more so) as with cross-breeds, then to argue about anything on this thread devoted "designer dogs" is ridiculous because many many pedigree breeders are just as guilty.


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> So in that case, pricing and silly names shouldn't be a factor! If people were truly not snobby, then the only reason anyone on this thread should be disagreeing with "designer dogs" (I hate that term) would be on the grounds of irresponsible breeding....which I'm sure is something we can all agree on.
> 
> As irresponsible breeding goes on with pedigrees just as much (if not more so) as with cross-breeds, then to argue about anything on this thread devoted "designer dogs" is ridiculous because many many pedigree breeders are just as guilty.


This is the only reason I don't like most cross-breeds, because the majority of them are poorly and selfishly bred just because a quick dollar can be made from them, because of how cute ALL puppies are at 8 weeks old when they're ready to be sold on regardless of whether they're perfectly healthy or whether they're at un-noticeably death's door to the eye of an inexperienced buyer. I couldn't stress enough how much it :censor: me off that the larger breeds such as huskies and GSDs are being bred with Corgis just because they look cute, which they do. But it's unhealthy for the animal. Take for example, if someone crossed a bulldog of any type ex. the American Bulldog, with a greyhound. Imagine a dog bred for years and years on end to race, but with multiple breeding problems because of a short face, instead of a long face/snout/nose/whatever. Unacceptable.

If more cross-breeds are created in the next few years to come and they're selected and paired up perfectly, then fine. That's brilliant. But if people don't see sense, there's going to be a lot of crying eleven year old girls a week after they've brought home their brand new puppy, sobbing because their puppy isn't perfect enough for them, or it's gotten too big after a month. There's not enough room for all of these mutts in rescue centres, so there will be huge amounts of abandoned dogs being kicked onto the streets and PTS because of their changes in characteristics after being left alone without a family for weeks, months, or even years.

If I can, I hope to have at most, five dogs, with at least 2 being rescues when I move out in a few years time, but how much of a difference will two out of however many hundred or thousand make? Not a very big one.

Sorry for the bulky post.


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## ChoreDodger (Feb 5, 2014)

I've got two 'crossbreeds' and a 'pure breed', all three are rescues. One of the crossbreeds is exactly the same breeding as one of my childhood dogs - but back then, there hadn't been a silly name coined for his type! Silly name or not, they (my childhood one and this) are equally great dogs.

The other crossbreed and the pure bred were probably ditched due to health conditions which they undoubtedly sustained as a direct result of their breeding. 

Stuff the name! There are well bred, healthy dogs with fantastic temperaments, then there are the rest - and a label, name or even title have little to do with these imperative criteria, in my experience.

I disagree with the breeding of poorly bred dogs (and extortionate prices, hence earnings from the same), regardless of the label, kc status, popularity or anything else : victory:


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## repnanny (Aug 12, 2010)

couldnt agree more. It dosnt matter what the dog is mongrel or pedigree its the dogs health and temperment that matters. I do wonder if in a few years some of these designer mongrels will have developed some of the serious problems some pedigree breeds are already suffering. I have had corgis which have come from parents sired at the same place the queen gets hers from and they were evil, likewise I have had mongrels from rescue centres who were angels - pedigree means zilch. But whilst idiots buy these animals without any though except fashion the dogs will continue to suffer being mismatched and misbred by greedy moneygrubbers.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Purebred - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this site is interesting, it states that an animal only needs to be 87.5% of one breed to be classed as a full breed, that leaves 12.5% mixed, therfore as mongrels/crossbreeds of any animal go, they are all mongrel.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

I love how everything on this site turns into a Kerfuffle.

Some people really need to wind their necks in- I don't mean not having an opinion but just being a little less aggressive about it.

Can we not just agree that we get which ever dog we like- crossbreed, pedigree, mongrel... the name is irrelevant if you love the dog!


"*A rose by any other name would smell as sweet*"


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I didn't think it was getting aggressive. 1 or 2 posts maybe (from one poster), but most of the other arguments were quite reasonable, IMO, as in the most important thing is to produce healthy, sound dogs for the right reasons (and greed is not a good reason, but seems to be a motivation behind a lot of the litters you would find on Gumtree or Preloved), do all the correct health and character checks and test, regardless whether you create pedigrees or crosses. I don't see any reason why someone who decides to mate 2 dogs together is not willing to do that (if you can't afford it, maybe just leave it until you can)!
Surely the above would be in the best interested of (ALL) the dogs and the buyers. 

I agree with you that everyone should be able to get the dog they desire (and suit), but it should be up to the breeders to make sure you get a happy healthy dog.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Oh yes of course... a happy healthy dog is the most important aspect- and yes my nod in the direction of aggression was probably the same person you are thinking of...

I just don't like to see what could be an interesting and informative debate turn into a bun fight... or people making nasty remarks about others.:blush:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

mitsi said:


> Purebred - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> this site is interesting, it states that an animal only needs to be 87.5% of one breed to be classed as a full breed, that leaves 12.5% mixed, therfore as mongrels/crossbreeds of any animal go, they are all mongrel.


Sorry Mitsi, but I think you've somehow missed the point of this discussion. We aren't discussion how pure pedigree dogs are, so the way I see it their relationship back to wolves or any other wild dog is not relevant.

We are all aware that way back in certain breeds other breeds would have been brought in to enhance (not necessarily the right word) a particular breed which might be losing a desired appearance, but those dogs were not called by a silly name and they were used as part of a breeding programme. To me there's a huge difference.

We are now talking about anyone and everyone jumping onto the bandwagon to create a designer breed with a silly name by mating what is recognised as 2 pedigree breeds together.

The way that I see it, the concept in dogs is that if it is a pedigree breed it's a pedigree breed! Anything that isn't, whether it's a cross between 2 different pedigree breeds, 1 pedigree breed and one non-pedigree breed, or 2 non-pedigree breeds, it's still a mongrel.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I wonder what constitutes a "silly name"? I find "pug" to be a little silly. And there's NOWT more silly than "grande Bassett griffon vendeen"!!!


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

When most people I know talk about the price of these crosses they are not happy because the majority of people who have bred them haven't payed out for the health testing, spent the time looking for the right stud which can include traveling across the country or even going abroad. Which it was adds to the cost of a litter, all the little things a good breeder will do. All the majority of these 'designer' breeders dog it use the closest dog, and get a bit of extra food. 
Myself and most of the people I know don't care about higher prices from the breeders who are paying out for testing and re actually taking the time to plan there litter.

Also grande Bassett griffon vendeen is actually a practical name as its a description of the breed
Grande = great (as in large as there is a smaller version)
Bassett = is used for short legged
Griffin = Is a type of dog
Vendeen = the area the breed was worked 
So the name means a big short legged type of dog from that area.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Doesn't stop it being kinda silly though does it?

By the same thinking, the name cockerpoo does exactly what it says on the tin.....half cocker spaniel, half poodle. 'Nuff said!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

:blush:
there is a teeny tiny part of me that actually quite likes some of these names for cross-breeds.
Sorry but some are quite sweet..
Puggle!
Shoodle
cockerpoo


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> Doesn't stop it being kinda silly though does it?
> 
> By the same thinking, the name cockerpoo does exactly what it says on the tin.....half cocker spaniel, half poodle. 'Nuff said!


Cockandpoo would be better.:2thumb:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Middleton Mouse said:


> Cockandpoo would be better.:2thumb:


Once took my old mum to see a film called that......turned out it was NOT about cuddly puppies!:gasp::gasp::gasp:


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

feorag said:


> Sorry Mitsi, but I think you've somehow missed the point of this discussion. We aren't discussion how pure pedigree dogs are, so the way I see it their relationship back to wolves or any other wild dog is not relevant.
> 
> We are all aware that way back in certain breeds other breeds would have been brought in to enhance (not necessarily the right word) a particular breed which might be losing a desired appearance, but those dogs were not called by a silly name and they were used as part of a breeding programme. To me there's a huge difference.
> 
> ...


sorry for hi jacking the thread slightly, just wanted to put my point across about every single dog out there being a mixed breed, and now from what ive read on the kc website alot of these mixed breeds are now also being seen as breed in their own right, and being registered, its just annoying when dog breeders get the attitude that their dogs are better etc as they are pure bred, when actually they are without any doubt a mixed breed themselves. I think if a dog is being crossbred for a reason and not just to be fashionable, then thats all good, and if it wasnt for dogs being crossbred over the year then we wouldnt have the great range of breeds we have now.


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## Turaco (Jul 24, 2013)

I hate (HATE I say!)he use of stupid mixed names. It is because of this reason people are banging any old mix together to breed the name and sell it for £££s. Occasionally you get a decent mix and this is great. Like a pug cross so it looks like a pug but actually has a nose it can breathe from for example. Just don't give it a stupid name. It is a cross breed and there is *NO* shame in using that word over an idiotic babble name. Many of my clients actually think these are real breeds just because it has a silly name! Most of these clients have not researched their cross pet and or how to keep a dog and bough it because of the name. The puppy farm trade is enjoying this bonanza too.
All because we can make a silly name by breeding two differant dogs.
Even a 'labradoodle' is not a breed as they do not follow a breed standard. They are coming in all shapes and sizes and are very rarely similar in appearance.
The worst I had was one idiot owner proudly displaying her 'West Yorkshire'. Well done love, a dog that will have awful skin and no teeth by the time it's 7 if it's caught the wrong side of the genes. I immediately changed her records to 'crossbreed'. 
I wouldn't mind the names but I've seen such awful welfare, breeding results and stupidity in people it boils my blood now!
*rant over but always poised for another*


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turaco said:


> I hate (HATE I say!)he use of stupid mixed names. It is because of this reason people are banging any old mix together to breed the name and sell it for £££s. Occasionally you get a decent mix and this is great. Like a pug cross so it looks like a pug but actually has a nose it can breathe from for example. Just don't give it a stupid name. It is a cross breed and there is *NO* shame in using that word over an idiotic babble name. Many of my clients actually think these are real breeds just because it has a silly name! Most of these clients have not researched their cross pet and or how to keep a dog and bough it because of the name. The puppy farm trade is enjoying this bonanza too.
> All because we can make a silly name by breeding two differant dogs.
> Even a 'labradoodle' is not a breed as they do not follow a breed standard. They are coming in all shapes and sizes and are very rarely similar in appearance.
> The worst I had was one idiot owner proudly displaying her 'West Yorkshire'. Well done love, a dog that will have awful skin and no teeth by the time it's 7 if it's caught the wrong side of the genes. I immediately changed her records to 'crossbreed'.
> ...


"Hate" is a very strong word. Don't you realise that in saying that, you'll be kind of offending any cross breed owners that are proud of their dogs? Just like you'd get defensive if they said they HATE whatever dog you have, or your hair colour, or your kids! 

I've already said that using a supposedly "stupid" name is just easier than saying the whole two breeds cross bred thing.

That's why things are getting heated here.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Turaco said:


> I hate (HATE I say!)he use of stupid mixed names. It is because of this reason people are banging any old mix together to breed the name and sell it for £££s. Occasionally you get a decent mix and this is great. Like a pug cross so it looks like a pug but actually has a nose it can breathe from for example. Just don't give it a stupid name. It is a cross breed and there is *NO* shame in using that word over an idiotic babble name. Many of my clients actually think these are real breeds just because it has a silly name! Most of these clients have not researched their cross pet and or how to keep a dog and bough it because of the name. The puppy farm trade is enjoying this bonanza too.
> All because we can make a silly name by breeding two differant dogs.
> Even a 'labradoodle' is not a breed as they do not follow a breed standard. They are coming in all shapes and sizes and are very rarely similar in appearance.
> The worst I had was one idiot owner proudly displaying her 'West Yorkshire'. Well done love, a dog that will have awful skin and no teeth by the time it's 7 if it's caught the wrong side of the genes. I immediately changed her records to 'crossbreed'.
> ...


 
Can I ask what job you do? just with you saying you changed her records?
Your 'rant', as mrcriss points out, is rather erm... hate filled. why so angry?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> Can I ask what job you do? just with you saying you changed her records?


Yeah, I don't think you're going to get an answer there Rachel. Suffice to say, if this person is a client, then presumably they're paying some money for some kind of service. In which case, they have every right to refer to their animal as whatever they want! And if it makes them happy to do so, then the service provider should follow suit, or they're not providing a very good service!:whistling2:


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## jdh (Oct 28, 2013)

I have what gets called a sprollie. She is a Springer spaniel (dad) border collie (mam) cross. She can be a tad mental but no worse than any collie I know.
I don't agree with breeding for a name but I have found the mongrels we have had to be healthier than the pedigree


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

I like my dogs to be unmessed with if possible, I like GSDs but not what breeders have done to their back legs, they look crippled. As we have cats I'd only take on a puppy and with a mongrel you don't know how it's going to turn out. I'd never own something with a flat face, bulging eyes or ridiculously short legs. I like my dogs natural, hence I have a malalmute, from health tested, hip scored parents. She's no trouble at all, bless her.


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## Lil_nightmare (Feb 26, 2011)

i'll take my mongrel over a disfigured purebreed any day!

My Shichon Wicket:


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## morphtastic (Aug 18, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> You say it's "snobbery"…..well I'm sorry, but there is no-one more snobby about dogs than the *pedigree devotees* that rant and rave about the crossbreed market! Teasing and backcombing their precious *mutated pooches* to within an inch of their lives and prancing around show-rings, and looking down their noses at everyone else.
> 
> A rather hypocritical comment there methinks: victory:


 There are hundreds of pedigree breeds out there which are responsibly bred with full health checks and are 'fit for purpose'. Yes some breeds have gone wrong and the breed shows have a lot to answer for, but crufts is also a showcase for some fantastic working dogs. I breed working line Golden Retrievers which are all health checked, hip and elbow scored, eye tested yearly etc. first and foremost is temperament.
There are always going to be irresponsible breeders, pedigree and cross breeds. Its up to the person buying the dog/puppy to do their homework and make sure they are buying from a responsible breeder who can provide all necessary paperwork regarding health checks etc. Just because a puppy is expensive doesn't mean its been well bred!!


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## EmmaLock (Nov 10, 2010)

Personally, the word 'designer' in front of any animal, dog or otherwise, gets my hairs a little raised. 
The very word design would suggest a type of 'fashion' or trend, and as we know, fashions change. 

'Poos' and 'Doodles' are all the rage, and I can see why, with some being hypo allergenic, I myself, have fur allergies. 

Luckily, in many instances, 'designer' animals are bred for health, as well as human benefit, and this is all great news, especially with the muddle that the 'Purebred' dogs are in at the moment, what with inbreeding and genetic diseases.
Overall, I dont think you can trump a healthy mongrel or Xbreed, and although Im not a fan of designer pups, im glad theyre often crossed, and healthier than a traditional purebred.

Edit: Just seen the discussion on 'silly' names a few pages back. I think the winner of that category is the lovely 'Kooikerhondje'. A breed I never knew existed, until a chance encounter with a Youtube Clip. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHoR35vmTvQ


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Disgruntled said:


> I like my dogs to be unmessed with if possible, I like GSDs but not what breeders have done to their back legs, they look crippled. As we have cats I'd only take on a puppy and with a mongrel you don't know how it's going to turn out. I'd never own something with a flat face, bulging eyes or ridiculously short legs. I like my dogs natural, hence I have a malalmute, from health tested, hip scored parents. She's no trouble at all, bless her.
> [URL=http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy339/koshiinian/DSCF1426.jpg]image[/URL]


Shes beautiful.:flrt:


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## Ameliaxx (Apr 9, 2010)

Can I just say not all pure breeds are mutilated or disfigured (and actually find it quiet offensive the same as I'm sure many crossbreed owners don't like it when there dogs are called silly or stupid) in fact it's the majority that aren't but the minority that are disfigured and I show my dogs and would agree that some of the dogs I see at the shows concern me and something needs to be done, I own two purebreeds a soft coated wheaten terrier and a Manchester terrier both are happy healthy dogs my scwt is 11 and never been to a vet except for check ups and vaccs and my Manchester is a happy health pup! Inca (mt) is from show parents that are health tested and have wonderful temperments the breeders do everything they can for the pups but I'd want the same from a cross breed puppy both parents tested and for the parents to have good temperments.

I have no problem with people using combined names it's there dog I just don't like people using them as a sale device but it's the same for "rare colours" in certain breeds.


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

mitsi said:


> Shes beautiful.:flrt:


Thanks, shame she wasn't bred for brains! Not a clever dog at all... :whistling2:


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Emzylock said:


> Edit: Just seen the discussion on 'silly' names a few pages back. I think the winner of that category is the lovely 'Kooikerhondje'. A breed I never knew existed, until a chance encounter with a Youtube Clip.



Kooikerhondje means Kooiker's dogs. the breed was bred to get ducks into some sort of duck catching cages, cages in Dutch is Kooin, the duck trappers were refured to as Kooiker. Hondje being dog so Kooikerhondje basically translates to Duck cathcers dog.

Some breeds get an English name when the are bred in English speaking places but this breed has kept its original name.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

PPVallhunds said:


> Kooikerhondje means Kooiker's dogs. the breed was bred to get ducks into some sort of duck catching cages, cages in Dutch is Kooin, the duck trappers were refured to as Kooiker. Hondje being dog so Kooikerhondje basically translates to Duck cathcers dog.
> 
> Some breeds get an English name when the are bred in English speaking places but this breed has kept its original name.


I think they're beautiful, and I like the name... makes me think of cookies


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## Turaco (Jul 24, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> "Hate" is a very strong word. Don't you realise that in saying that, you'll be kind of offending any cross breed owners that are proud of their dogs? Just like you'd get defensive if they said they HATE whatever dog you have, or your hair colour, or your kids!
> 
> I've already said that using a supposedly "stupid" name is just easier than saying the whole two breeds cross bred thing.
> 
> That's why things are getting heated here.


Ahh sorry, was a bit of a rant wasn't it!  But I think you looked too far there. It's the welfare issues because of breeding a name that i hate! I probably offend most times I register a mix name pet and tell the owners as it isn't a breed I'll have to put it under 'cross breed' as the name they say isn't on our database. The horror!! 

I am a nursing assistant at a vets and so I see the worst in all the designer name thing including dogs badly bred for a name that either have died young or are PTS as they are too badly bred by folks (too often puppy farmers enjoying the name fad) only wanting money. Lots of caesarians happening too as they haven't thought that a small bitch has to somehow give birth when the male is much bigger and therefore also the young. Most folks would think 'well the vets will be happy with the extra money' but caesers are tough on a bitch and they don't always make it. It is damn hard having to deal with a patient dying, whether it is the 6 month old puppy having issues from it's bad breeding or the poor bitch on the operating table. It's what makes us question why we do our job (certainly not for the slightly over minimum wage we receive!). 

That's why I ranted. I see whats happens and it is sometimes horrific and heartbreaking. This does happen far too much with pedigrees too but the daft naming thing has made puppy farming boom again. 
I see people thinking because it has a daft name it IS a breed and they just don't research the breeds involved or even in a lot of cases how to care for it. They really do get caught up that much in a name. 

I said hate as I* love* the word cross breed. Not awkward or long to say and when meeting people opens into friendly conversation as to what there is in the dog in question. I'm very proud of my parents cross breed and when we walk and meet other crosses it always leads to a happy chat over what went into it and ours.
People seem to be against the word 'cross breed' and have to make a name to sound posh- the dog doesn't care and just wants a good home and a good healthy life. Get it with cats too...people bring in their tabby moggy and say it's part bengal. When you look at it the only similarity is that it is indeed a cat, but thats it. 

If all breeders bred sensible crosses and all people were sensible about getting and looking after their dog (and thus stopping the puppy farm business) I wouldn't give a monkeys chuff about a daft name (be nice if pedigree breeders were sensible too as I've met oh so many bad ones). 

Funnily enough, the cocker spaniel x poodle is actually one of the few smaller size designer breeds that actually do look similar and do tend to be bred better. It seems to be when you involve little dogs like chihuahuas and yorkies that things go wrong. Larger dogs don't seem to have the issues, certainly not with the puppy farming.

Hope this doesn't sound like another rant, just trying to explain myself better given how much more I see due to my job, as I have said mostly due to the surge in puppy farming- which I'm passionately against.

Also hope it made sense...head is a bit scrabbled from pain pills I'm on at the mo!:crazy:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm not going to get involved in the base of this argument, but I do want to put my tuppence worth into the description thing.


A lot of people are claiming there are only two types of dogs 'pure breed' and 'mongrel'.

Sorry guys, but this isn't true. There are FOUR categories and they have very well defined and explicit meanings.


*Pedigree*: A dog with two parents of the same recognised breed that has been registered and has full paperwork of its family history (AKA a pedigree!)

*Pure Breed*: The same as the above without the paperwork/pedigree

*Cross Breed*: A dog who's parents are two different pure breeds or pedigrees.


*Mongrel*: A dog of unknown parentage or who's parents were different crossbreeds, mongrels or a mongrel + purebreed/pedigree/crossbreed themselves.





regards

Andy


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Makes perfect sense to me! :2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Just seen this article.

Hidden suffering of cross-breed dogs bred to be cute | Mail Online


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

ALL DOGS ARE DESIGNER...: victory:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

feorag said:


> Just seen this article.
> 
> Hidden suffering of cross-breed dogs bred to be cute | Mail Online


An incredibly biased article! Could have been written by any one of the "haters" (I loathe that word) on this thread.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

But on what basis have you decided that is a biased article and not an article based on truth?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

feorag said:


> But on what basis have you decided that is a biased article and not an article based on truth?


Because it's written with the bitter tone of the pedigree breeder that's had his nose seriously put out of joint. It's even used some of the same tired old phrasing that many of the naysayers on this forum use. If it were a balanced article, it would have incorporated some of the good points as well as some of the supposed not so good points!


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

But surely you would agree with this:

"The Kennel Club does approve cross-breeds, but only if they’ve gone through the medical checks puppy-farmers dodge. 
These tests — often including hip X-rays, eye tests and DNA scans — are expensive, costing £200 or more. But they ensure many of those genetic faults that are so common in some breeds are not present.
Those who seek to avoid paying for these tests, or who are seduced by the promises of unscrupulous puppy farmers, are supporting a cruel and shadowy industry."


Which is what most contributors (bar 1 or 2) in this thread have been writing. Breeding is more than just mating a male and female dog, making up some untrue USP (hypoallergic, best of both breeds, no health problems, best family pet ever) and then charge as much as someone who does ALL the test, because you're greedy. Gumtree and Preloved is full of adverts like this and I bet you if you enquired further 9 out of 10 "breeders" will not have carried out any more than a bulk basic checkover by the vets.
Yes, the article should have mentioned that the probems apply to BOTH PUREBRED (in want for better wording) AND CROSSES, because Puppy Farms and irresponsible breeding (and dishonest selling, i.e. not mentioning potential negatives) is a huge problem with dogs in general. It's probably because the "pedigree" side of it has already been done to death (and both, buyers and sellers not really giving a t*ss), and the SOME of the "cross breeders" have kind of often looked down on the purebreed side (see, it works both ways), pointing out that ALL crosses are so much healthier than ALL pedigrees. 
Does that make sense?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Yes of course I approve of responsible breeding and testing for congenital problems etc. My dog has been tested, just in case I should ever choose to breed her.

But it's all the "rant rant rant hundreds of pounds rant rant rant silly names rant rant rant" that really just makes the rest of us roll our eyes and say "really? It bothers you _that much????_". And much of that article is written with that tone.

Don't forget that many many dogs win at crufts with life multiple threatening congenital disorders. Have they been tested? Can that be counted as responsible breeding, even though they're apparently "best in show"?


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Don't forget that many many dogs win at crufts with life multiple threatening congenital disorders. Have they been tested? Can that be counted as responsible breeding, even though they're apparently "best in show"?


That was one of the things that had put me off Crufts for a while. I remember not that long ago, I was appaled by the BOB Bloodhound, where the judge literally had to dig out its eyes, which where horribly red and droopy, the Staffy looked like a flat flounder with exaggerated bow legs and the GSD was dragging its backside across the floor.
I think that was the year where many experts finally woke up to it and it seems to be getting a lot better (slowely albeight!). There were a couple of dogs disqualified over the apst 2 years, because the health tests had not been carried out correctly. IMHO, they shouldn't have been able to qualify in the first place, never mind getting as far as they did.
There's still a long way to go though, the state of one of "my breeds", the GSD, is still atrocious when it comes to show lines (the working lines, although not suitable for the average owner are doing a better job), apart from that it looks butt ugly (no pun intended).


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Exactly.....so this whole thread is a case of people in glass houses have bugger all right to throw stones. Once the KC and all that set have cleaned up their acts, ten they can start to moan at the price of cockapoos!


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

Has this thread not distastefully transformed from me asking 'do you like crossbreeds or not' to a full blown debate on why pedigree dogs are complete robots or whatever? (Just skimmed and scanned through this thread again).

Also, note the new sig pic.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

eoj89 said:


> Has this thread not distastefully transformed from me asking 'do you like crossbreeds or not' to a full blown debate on why pedigree dogs are complete robots or whatever? (Just skimmed and scanned through this thread again).
> 
> Also, note the new sig pic.


Yes well you are pretty good at starting threads on contentious issues, and then sitting back to watch the sparks fly, aren't you?:hmm:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> Yes well you are pretty good at starting threads on contentious issues, and then sitting back to watch the sparks fly, aren't you?:hmm:


sparks are good...:no1:


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> Yes well you are pretty good at starting threads on contentious issues, and then sitting back to watch the sparks fly, aren't you?:hmm:


Just been a bit busy that's all :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

eoj89 said:


> Just been a bit busy that's all :Na_Na_Na_Na:


What's your next topic going to be, I wonder? Pitbulls? Co-habiting snakes? Monkeys in nappies? It's been a while since I've seen a calci-sand slanging match!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> What's your next topic going to be, I wonder? Pitbulls? Co-habiting snakes? Monkeys in nappies? It's been a while since I've seen a calci-sand slanging match!


mayonnaise... that would be a good topic...:lol2:

ah, but some health nut would weigh in and complain...:lol2:


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## eoj89 (Jun 20, 2013)

mrcriss said:


> What's your next topic going to be, I wonder? Pitbulls? Co-habiting snakes? Monkeys in nappies? It's been a while since I've seen a calci-sand slanging match!


Where is all this coming from? I don't see any need for it at all, and once again this thread is off topic. All I did was point out how the thread topic has changed.

Also, I've already created a thread on Pitbulls a few weeks ago, actually, but before you slam me for that, it was for purely personal reasons I wanted resolving.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Just highlighting a trend that I've noticed:whistling2: With me, you see, I write whatever pops into my head....and that just occurred to me.

"How can I tell you what I think until I've heard what I'm going to say?"


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I have been surprised as of late to find while searching preloved for puppies in my area, that there are a few local(ish) labradoodle and cockapoo breeders that have full health tests done on both parents, but there doesn't seem to be many working cockers or labrador pure breeds that are tested. In part that is because purebreeds that are tested etc. have their own website and are not to be found on preloved. 
The prices though can vary from about £300 from a farmer (lisenced breeder, I still think it's farming really) to £800... it's the ones that are priced at pedigree and health tested prices, when they are 2 pets that haven't been tested, that I don't get. I don't mind paying more for a health tested cross, like I don't mind paying more for a health tested pedigree.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

em_40 said:


> I have been surprised as of late to find while searching preloved for puppies in my area, that there are a few local(ish) labradoodle and cockapoo breeders that have full health tests done on both parents, but there doesn't seem to be many working cockers or labrador pure breeds that are tested. In part that is because purebreeds that are tested etc. have their own website and are not to be found on preloved.
> The prices though can vary from about £300 from a farmer (lisenced breeder, I still think it's farming really) to £800... it's the ones that are priced at pedigree and health tested prices, when they are 2 pets that haven't been tested, that I don't get. I don't mind paying more for a health tested cross, like I don't mind paying more for a health tested pedigree.


From what I can gather from talking to different breeders alot of working dog breeders don't health test claiming it's the show dogs who are unhealthy and if there dogs can work they must be healthy. All though you do get some working breeders who do the health testing but from what I'm told it can be hard to find them.

Same with people breeding from there pets Many don't even know about health testing past a general vet check up, and many of the ones who do think it's only show dogs who need them. Again you do get some who health test. 
I saw an add from one breeder who in the add had a long list of all the health tests that they don't do as they breed for pets only not show dogs so they don't need them. So I guess it doesn't matter to some if a pet dog can't walk or goes blind by time it's 3.

Just as you get some show breeders who I'm sure don't health test either.

It all comes down to its how a dog is bred, a well bred crossbreed or pedigree from health tested dogs more power to those breeders, it's the ones who don't who shouldn't be breeding.


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