# Water dragon not eating



## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

So I just bought a new water dragon which is about 1-2 months old. We have had him just over a weak and he doesn't seem to be eating a lot, we have put in 1-2 crickets daily and I have only ever seen him eat one. I was wondering why this could be, whether it could be illness or if he just needs some time to settle in. Also if he isn't eating, how long should we wait before we worry.


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## Huddy5122 (Aug 28, 2015)

Probably relocation stress, try waxworms in a dish that got mine interested again and don't handle for a few weeks.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

You don't say whether you purchased from a private individual or a retailer - either way what was he/she feeding on before?

As the previous poster has suggested, it could simply be the stress of the move and unfamiliar surroundings. Provided the animal is in good overall health and the conditions in which it is being kept are at an optimum level - I wouldn't worry just yet. 

If he/she is loosing weight or showing signs of illness (lathergy or abnormal behaviour) then I would certainly recommend a visit to the vets just to be on the safe side.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I got him from a pet store and he was being fed crickets before we got him. He is very livley and hasn't shown any abnormal behaviour. He climbs about and jumps on his log a lot, just doesn't show an interest in food


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> So I just bought a new water dragon which is about 1-2 months old. We have had him just over a weak and he doesn't seem to be eating a lot, we have put in 1-2 crickets daily and I have only ever seen him eat one. I was wondering why this could be, whether it could be illness or if he just needs some time to settle in. Also if he isn't eating, how long should we wait before we worry.


Hi, I`ll ask the most important question; can you give details of the conditions you keep the dragon in and show a few photos of the whole enclosure? Thanks!
P.S. It can take many weeks for them to acclimate to the enclosure (let alone the keeper) and that may also be a reason for the lack of appetite. You need to be feeding much more than 1 or 2 insects per day (if all the conditions are supportive).


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

We put in 1-2 crickets daily. He hasn't eaten any of them. We have counted 4 crickets in there and he doesn't seem to want them. We do replace the crickets so he knows that they are there and he is very livley. I will get some pictures as well as the temperatures and the humidity soon. Thanks for the help


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Here is a picture of him in his tank as well as the temperatures, we replace his water every 1-2 days and we put in a fresh cricket in hopes he would eat it. After replacing the water today I found 3 dead crickets so I know he hasn't ate them.

Screenshot by Lightshot
Screenshot by Lightshot

Thanks for the help!


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

This would usually be my first question but as I do not have any first hand experience of keeping Water Dragons I wouldn't really know what was correct and what wasn't. 

This was why I did say in my post provided 'the conditions in which it is being kept are at an optimum level - I wouldn't worry just yet'. 



murrindindi said:


> Hi, I`ll ask the most important question; can you give details of the conditions you keep the dragon in and show a few photos of the whole enclosure? Thanks!


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> Here is a picture of him in his tank as well as the temperatures, we replace his water every 1-2 days and we put in a fresh cricket in hopes he would eat it. After replacing the water today I found 3 dead crickets so I know he hasn't ate them.
> 
> Screenshot by Lightshot
> Screenshot by Lightshot
> ...



Hi, the photos are too big to see clearly, but I do notice you have analogue gauges, those can be quite inaccurate which means if that`s how you measure the temps and humidity you/we have no idea what those might really be. You need a digital hygromer for the ambient (air) temps and a IR Temp-gun to measure the surface temp of the basking object. You haven`t said what the temps or humidity are (even if innacurate it`s important that you understand what they should be). Is this a fishtank with a screen top?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160772214729?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191386183976?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

The thermometer/hydrometer shows the best temperatures for them to be in. Also the tank is a proper lizard tank too. Also we decided to get him some waxworms and he is loves to eat them. I think he is just a picky eater. I will still keep a look on the website incase anything else happens. I'll also try invest in a digital thermometer/hydrometer. 

Thanks for the help!!


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> The thermometer/hydrometer shows the best temperatures for them to be in. Also the tank is a proper lizard tank too. Also we decided to get him some waxworms and he is loves to eat them. I think he is just a picky eater. I will still keep a look on the website incase anything else happens. I'll also try invest in a digital thermometer/hydrometer.
> 
> Thanks for the help!!


I don`t think you quite understand, the analogue gauges are likely to be inaccurate which means the figures they show may be well outside what`s recommended. The digital hygrometer and IR Temp-gun are both absolutely urgent. I doubt the dragon is a "picky eater", more likely the conditions don`t support it fully. Can you show the whole enclosure, including a top view?


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

What I'm going to do, is I'm going to get the one that you recommended. Here is a picture of the setup and a photo from the top. It's hard to get a photo from the top because of where my tank is. The dimension of the tank is height: 60 cm, depth: 45 cm, length: 90cm. So it is a 3ft tank.

Screenshot by Lightshot
Screenshot by Lightshot


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> What I'm going to do, is I'm going to get the one that you recommended. Here is a picture of the setup and a photo from the top. It's hard to get a photo from the top because of where my tank is. The dimension of the tank is height: 60 cm, depth: 45 cm, length: 90cm. So it is a 3ft tank.
> 
> Screenshot by Lightshot
> Screenshot by Lightshot


The photos are still too big and upside down, as far as I know this website accepts photos from just Photobucket (copied and pasted to here). Are you sure it`s 2 feet high, usually 3ft fishtanks are only around 18inches tall, also, is that a screen top?


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

This will be a more appropriate size and the right way up.

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

The tank is 2 ft tall and 3 ft long. Sorry about the photos, there isn't really another way that I know how to do it. I have ordered the thermometer that you recommended.

Also a question I have, where should I have the thermometer/hygrometer, because it has suction cups for it to hold on to glass, but my back wall has a polystyrene background, so would it be best to have it closer to the lamp or further away (to the left)


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

Well first of all dont painc as seems like hes full of energy and will just take time to settle in. Yea it is best to get a few bits to keep the correct temps and humidy but when i go on holiday my dragon goes into a reptile hotle and when i puck her up ut takes a week or 2 for her to eat and get back to normal.

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I decided to get him some different food as he started to get a little thin, he has been eating wax worms, however he isn't eating anything else. And because wax worms are full of fat, I can't keep feeding him then. Do you have any idea how I can get him to start eating crickets/meal worms as he seems to not be interested. I've made sure that it wasn't just him not being hungry, I put in a wax worm, he went straight to eat it so I took it out, I then put a locust in and he didn't seem bothered about it, there are also meal worms in a bowl and he hasn't touched them.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

This is just my opinion

You need to get some more branches and foliage in there (preferably) cover the sides over as this is also likely to be causing him to feel too open and stressed which also can impact the appetite, when you combine that with "temperature guesses and inadequate UV your probably sitting on very thin ice. (something I have seen at least 7 times now with water dragons. (personal experience rescuing them) 

What UVB product are you currently using? I can't see one. (unless your using a compact lamp)? if so look into using a flouresent distanced at the top reflected or one of the products designed to sit across the top of mesh tops. 
The exo terra mesh screen tops apparently will block out around 40-50% of UV radiation by what-ever product your using to light the enclosure meaning he will need to be able to get very close to the top of the mesh to get any real benefit from any benefit. There are some products out there designed to help reflect the rays through the mesh more effectively. Adding in some vertical, horizontal and diagonal climbing options with a few fake plants should help him be able to self thermoregulate and UV regulate himself and when provided cover feel "safe" It is important to make sure your measuring temperatures directly beneath the basking point at the highest point under the branch + the ambient temperature with a good digital thermometer or temperature gun. You can pick a digital thermometer up on ebay for under £2. Brand New Digital LCD Mini Thermometer Temperature Meter Probe Sensor Wholesale | eBay
I keep mine at 38c at the basking point though I have seen my guys choose much hotter surfaces when I have had them outdoors in the summer months, more like 40c 

I personally spray my tree dragons once heavily daily with luke warm water by filling the spray bottle up with half hot water, and a quater cold water, by the time the air pressure works on the spray bottle it comes out luke warm. Water dragons prefer to drink moving water and lap it up as it runs down branches in rivlets and lap up water droplets, I can't see very much opportunity to do this in your current setup.A video I took of mine a while ago to show what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4n3c2qVgzA

There natural diets are apparently mostly worms and grubs and supplemented with other insects occasionally. My water dragons get a good mix of Silk, earth, butter, calci worms, morio and meal worms with the odd few locusts, roaches and a tub of crickets thrown into it for variety. 
There is always a standing dish of meal worms in there with a small dish of green food and vegetables, mine does not eat every single day, maybe 3 times a week, I dust all 3 main feeds throughout the week with a good quality multivitamin dust, my favourite at the moment is the arcadia earth pro A. 

Aside from improving your current husbandry I would try to keep a hands off approach for now until you suss him out eating. The only picky water dragons I have ever came across are those who don't eat vegetation, (mine only done it twice) but I still provided it to give him the opportunity. 

Water dragons are usually pretty greedy and highly opportunistic in my experience come feeding time when optimum, I have never known them to refuse on any long term basis unless there wasn't husbandry issues, or otherwise recently being moved or over handled. 

I hope that helps and good luck.
Dixon.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Hi, thanks for replying. Currently I am using a compact light that has both UVB and heat. We are going to get him some new plants asap as well as a new branch for him to climb on, we currently have a thermo-hygrometer that is digital and we are deciding where to put it, but as you said we need one under the basking point, we are going to put it directly underneath, I will also take a look at your video.

Also is it possible if you can send a link to one of the reflector lights that you said previously.

Also diet wise, we have put in a bowl of meal worms but he doesn't seem interested, we have tried him with locust and crickets but he has only ever eaten 1 cricket. The only thing he eats at the moment are wax worms covered with calci dust.

He is livley, is a lovely green and he seems to be healthy (weight wise) we are going to the place where we got him just to see if he is at the right weight by showing pictures. He is more livley at night and comes up to the front a lot, climbs a lot and at night he goes to sleep on his little branch.

We are going to get him some multi vitamin dust for his worms and hopefully we will get the temperature to the reccomended a sap. Thanks for taking your time to reply and I'll keep you posted, if you have any other tips please let me know because I don't want anything bad to happen to him


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

My water dragon only really eats pinkies she guts the down 5/6 every other day sometimes she will eat a few worms never touched veg which is normal for them just keep trying differnt food.

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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi here is the link to the canopy, they come in different sizes, depending on your own enclosure size (which is difficult to tell from the pic which one you would need, this is what I use on my exo terras. Arcadia 39w/90cm T5 Vivarium Canopy. Choice of Bulb


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

There isn't a lot of foods he can eat, because he's young the only things he can really have are crickets, meal worms, wax worms, locusts and if you can get them small enough, cockroaches.

We bought him some new plants and we got him some smaller crickets and calci dust with vitamins in.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Also which light would you recommend for a young Chinese water dragon. He's around 2-3 months old, his cage is 90x45x60cm. His log goes straight up to the light which is a combo of temperature (heat) and UVB.

We aren't sure how much UVB a Chinese water dragon should have as there are 3 different types of light, so which would you recommend


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

I have a arcadi 10%ubv tub the length of my viv 

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I only just noticed, we have an 80 watt bulb and the basking temperatures are around 22 degres Celsius, and I've read that it should be between 26-31, so would you recommend getting a 100-150 watt bulb.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> I only just noticed, we have an 80 watt bulb and the basking temperatures are around 22 degres Celsius, and I've read that it should be between 26-31, so would you recommend getting a 100-150 watt bulb.


You need to have something horizontal directly under-neath the basking point and take measurements of the temperature with a digital thermometer or temperature gun. The dial thermometers you are currently using are completely unreliable and have been known to be 10 degrees out sometimes. 

In my experience I can acheive a 38c basking spot with a 60w in a dome reflector distanced at 8" away from the back of the water dragon.

100w bulb in that dimension seems excessive to me. 

I can get 45c temperature readings for bearded dragons (which are a desert/semi arid species) with the exact same bulb in a terrestrial vivarium by placing rocks under-neath the basking point, in this case, you want a branch directly underneath it 8" away roughly. 

By including in more cage decoration and branches or climbing furnishings like vines or cork bark in horizontal, diagonal, and vertical ways combined at differing elevations throughout your water dragon will be able to bask and thermoregulate much more effectively. It may be a bit of playing around though with distancing to get the basking temperature correct with that which is why you need something more reliable to measure like a digital thermometer. 

This is what Murrindini was trying to explain to you. :2thumb:
You will not know the accurate temperature of your basking spot, until you use a digital thermometer or temperature gun and without I am afraid your running some risk to his over-all health, you can not guess with temperatures and reptiles.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I have a digital thermo-hygrometer which measured the temperature to be around 23 degres celcius, he has a huge branch going to the light and at the highest point it only measured about 23 degres.


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## Huddy5122 (Aug 28, 2015)

Basking spot wants to be around 35c


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I'm thinking my light is faulty because his log is about 2-3 inches away from the light and is measured about 22 degres directly underneath it. We are going down to the store today, we phoned them up and they said 22 degres is too low, and the person we spoke to reccomended a 100 watt light, and also said that could be one of the main reasons he isn't eating well.

I'll keep you posted, thanks for the help!


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

You need to place the probe directly under-neath the basking point and leave it there for a few moments after the surface (branch) has had a chance to warm up. 23c sounds a lot more like a typical ambient temperature to me which is fine, its just your basking spot. :2thumb:


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

We totally changed up the setup, now there is a UVB long light (10%) at the back of the wall and a seramic light above his log. Temperatures are readhing 25 degres celcius which is hotter than before as well as the humidity being around 60%


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

That's not the temp in the warm end / basking spot, right?


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Almost 26 degres in his basking spot, however the thermometer is slightly lower than the log and it goes underneath it, so I imagine that the temperature is higher.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> Almost 26 degres in his basking spot, however the thermometer is slightly lower than the log and it goes underneath it, so I imagine that the temperature is higher.


You need to get a measurement of the temperature directly under-neath the basking point, directly right under-neath the lamp at the surface Of what-ever object you have beneath it (i.e a branch) for him to perch on and bask, if its too high drop the wattage of the lamp OR the branch, if its too low, move the branch higher or go for a higher wattage bulb. You need at least a 35-38c reading directly beneath your lamp at the hottest point. This is the most important temperature you could be taking, forget about the thermometer being anywhere else at the minute.
I know this is a different enclosure type, I just edited one of my videos to show you but the principle is the same in yours. At 15 seconds pause the video  
Take the reading directly underneath the point the lamp is sitting at the highest surface close to it. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQpf65TIeQ


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

We moved the temperature sensor directly underneath the lamp, and it rose up from around 25 degres celcius, to around 30.4 and is slowly rising.

He is very livley, we changed the way it looks and it looks a lot more vibrant, with more plants. The humidity is around 60-65% however we are able to get that higher if we need to.

From reading online, we have been told that the basking point should be around 28-31 degres and 30 is hot enough for him to heat up.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> We moved the temperature sensor directly underneath the lamp, and it rose up from around 25 degres celcius, to around 30.4 and is slowly rising.
> 
> He is very livley, we changed the way it looks and it looks a lot more vibrant, with more plants. The humidity is around 60-65% however we are able to get that higher if we need to.
> 
> From reading online, we have been told that the basking point should be around 28-31 degres and 30 is hot enough for him to heat up.


Fantastic you got higher temperatures at the basking point. What I can tell you with my water dragons, when I have had them outside on warm summer days in the outdoor enclosure they have turned darker in colouration, and increased there external temperatures themselves to up to 40c and maintained that temperature throughout the day by seeking surfaces prior energised by the sun. 

They do this because black absorbs in solar radiant energy (similar principle to you wearing a black t-shirt on a warm day) and eventually go lighter in color to defelct the heat. 

This is not something I have ever managed to replicate indoors no matter how hard I have tried with thermal and heat gradients but from my observation and measuring them with my temperature gun throughout it made me think about providing higher basking zone temperatures indoors. 

I know that the tropical iguana is capable of digesting food with a core temperature of 28-29c, but for ALL there senses and immunity to work effectively they should be in the similar range as a water dragon (something else I have observed with mine outdoors. My boy Albus will even sit across surfaces in the high 40's and low 50's sometimes. 

One reason I choose to provide a 28-43c basking point. 

It sounds like your ambients are stable, you just need to find a balance of 35-38c at the basking point and your ambient temperatures 24-26c throughout the day in other areas. 

Good luck and fab news you have replaced his UVB. :2thumb:


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Thank you for all your help, we just sprayed him and the temperatures dropped to around 26 in the basking area, 5 minutes later it became 28 and is still rising, around the tank it is around 24-26 and we are gonna start feeding him crickets tomorrow in hopes that he become more hungry as higher temperatures make his metabolism work more.

A quick question, would you say a temperature of 31 degres is fine in his basking area?

Also, would you say that the temperature would have effected his eating patterns, the person we talked to said this would be why as when he was in the shop he ate crickets a lot. He is up against the front glass a lot, he jumps about constantly and we are gonna start feeding him tomorrow.

No more wax worms for him


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

Take in what SS is saying, he knows his stuff. If he's recommending c.38c then go for that. I don't have much WD experience but i'd be amazed if 30/31 was sufficient. If you look at their range in the wild the day time ambient is often well above this temperature, let along surface temperatures in direct sunlight. 

Temps very much impact appetite.


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

30/31 is fine had mine around that sometime it drops to 28 with no problems 

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

In his shaded parts it's around 23, under his lamp it is around 30-31 and in the rest of the tank it's 24-26.

We put in some crickets but he doesn't seem bothered yet, but it could just be because he needs to warm up because he hasn't been in a hot environment for a long time. The person we talked to said the temperature effects his eating patterns and wouldn't be surprised if he still didn't eat for a few days, we will keep an eye out for if he eats them.

If he doesn't in a few days then I guess I'll ask more questions


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Right, so I have the temperatures all correct, 30+ in his basking spot, underneath his log where it is shaded it's around 22 degres celcius and the rest is around 24 degres, it has been 2 days since he has eaten and the last thing he ate was 1 waxworm. 

He eats nothing else and he is addicted to them. There is around 7 crickets and 2 locusts in his enclosure and he doesn't bother about them, I then got a wax worm, held it in front of him and he wanted to eat it, I put the locust next to him and he wasn't bothered. He then jumped onto his log, I put a wax worm in front of the glass he jumped straight down and wanted to eat it.

What would you suggest I do to get him eating crickets/locusts because I can't keep feeding him wax worms and I don't want him to starve either.

As I said before his last meal was around 2 days ago at 1:30 in the afternoon and it was a single wax worm.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Your have been told that around 30°c is not adequate, no offence but you don't seem to be listening to the experienced people that are saying this. 

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I did say that it was getting 30+ in the basking area which is fine for him, and it doesn't seem to be effecting his appetite as he wants to eat wax worms but he just doesn't care about crickets and locusts. And 30 degres celcius is fine for a basking spot, especially because he can get higher if he needs to, it is around 30 degres at the highest point on the log but he can still sit at the top and stand there if he needs to.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Two people have expressed that 38°c is suitable, and that the low 30s are not. I would suggest listening to their advice, or why would anyone bother helping you with the next problem? 



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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Maintaining this heat can be hard. Temperatures determine a reptiles appetite, if it isnt hot enough then the reptile won't eat because of the metabolism, however mine is interested in eating, but only the thing that contain the most fat, he will eat wax worms daily but he doesn't touch locusts which is why I don't think the temperature is having a drastic effect on him, the store we got him from have the temperature at the basking point at about the same as mine 30+ and their water dragons are eating crickets and locusts fine. Mine was previously fed on crickets but he doesn't show any interest in them. I was wondering if there was any other reasons why he may not be eating, because if it was the temperature he wouldn't be eating anything.


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi there I think your doing just fine you have made the adjustment needed and temp are around what I have had for 4/5 years with no problems. The food thing is a hard 1 she use to eat locusts but won't touch them most end up drowning in her water so she only eats pinks and worms the only thing I could thing of is to starve for a few day then offer the locust maybe even kill fist .

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Good news, he just eaten a few meal worms (hand fed), I think the problem is he likes to see them moving, wax worms move a lot and I managed to get some meal worms that move just as much, he's had about 3 but I'll keep trying to feed him more. I also read something online saying a water dragons main food diet includes worms and on the odd occasion crickets and locusts. Hopefully I'll keep feeding him meal worms as the people at the store said they can be fed meal worms daily

Question: are there any other types of worms that I can feed him ever 1-2 days, that aren't full of fat and won't make him become over weight?


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Two people have expressed that 38°c is suitable, and that the low 30s are not. I would suggest listening to their advice, or why would anyone bother helping you with the next problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk



A case of the blind leading the blind, don`t you think!


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I don't understand what you mean by "the blind leading the blind"


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Play nicely people:notworthy:.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> Good news, he just eaten a few meal worms (hand fed), I think the problem is he likes to see them moving, wax worms move a lot and I managed to get some meal worms that move just as much, he's had about 3 but I'll keep trying to feed him more. I also read something online saying a water dragons main food diet includes worms and on the odd occasion crickets and locusts. Hopefully I'll keep feeding him meal worms as the people at the store said they can be fed meal worms daily
> 
> Question: are there any other types of worms that I can feed him ever 1-2 days, that aren't full of fat and won't make him become over weight?


Hi again, did you manage to buy the IR Temp-gun for measuring the basking surface temp? The probe off the digital hygrometer will not measure that temp nearly as accurately. I also agree the the surface temp needs to be around 35 to 38c. The only other temp you need to worry about is the lowest ambient in the coolest parts @ between approx 24 to 27c... 
If you do not provide those conditions the dragon will not be able to function efficiently and it`s immune system may be compromised leading to various health problems (they may not be apparent on the outside)... You are asking about other invert prey possibly making the lizard overweight, obesity is often caused by too low temps and humidity (apart from feeding more energy than the animal uses).


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

murrindindi said:


> A case of the blind leading the blind, don`t you think!


Absolutely 

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Anyway I'm hoping that there are more different types of worms that can be fed daily because he seems to like them a lot


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> Anyway I'm hoping that there are more different types of worms that can be fed daily because he seems to like them a lot


The diet is the least important of your worries at this time, the only concern should be to provide the conditions needed to fully support the lizard which you clearly have not provided yet.
Edit: This is not a "game", your lizard`s life depends on you listening to and acting on the advise immediately.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Belewski1984 said:


> Hi there I think your doing just fine you have made the adjustment needed and temp are around what I have had for 4/5 years with no problems. The food thing is a hard 1 she use to eat locusts but won't touch them most end up drowning in her water so she only eats pinks and worms the only thing I could thing of is to starve for a few day then offer the locust maybe even kill fist .
> 
> Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk



Hi, if you`re talking about surface temps being fine at around 30c you couldn`t be more wrong.


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## Belewski1984 (Apr 16, 2016)

murrindindi said:


> Hi, if you`re talking about surface temps being fine at around 30c you couldn`t be more wrong.


Yea as i have a self made misting system so air temps changes 

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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Just a pointer I will act on what I have been told, I will try to get the temperatures to above 30 on the basking point. He seems to be eating and looks to be a fussy eater. At this point in time my setup seems to be fine (apart from the basking temperature). I will see what I can do and I will hopefully get it up even higher as I will do anything to keep my lizard in good shape, I don't want anything bad to happen to him. I was more bothered about the diet because he hadn't eaten for quite a few days and I wasn't sure what I was going to do because I had been told that they can't stay on a constant diet of wax worms as they are full of fat.

I will keep in touch and I will update you on what's happened. For the time being, do you know if there are any other types of worms that I could feed him in the mean time?


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

It is not a case of 'playing nicely' it is yet another case of someone asking for advice (which in itself is not the issue) - being given advice and then failing to acting upon it. 

This thread has been going on for how many weeks now and the poor lizard is still no closer to being given an enclosure which is fit for purpose. 

You will remember about a year ago the reptile keeping community was up in arms when the Scottish Government give credibility to the animal rights groups proposed stopping (or at least heavily restricting) the right to keep exotic animals by private keepers? Well I actually sit on this review committee (on our side I may add) and it is instances like this that adds crediability to the animal rights groups claims that these are specialist animals and shouldn't be kept in captivity. This *WASN'T* a 'flash in the pan' and the animal rights groups are still as organised, focused and as single minded as they always have - infact I am attending a presentation tomorrow night at the Scottish Parliment on this very subject - so tell me, how can I argue against these claims when instances such as this continue? 

It may be too late already but if we don't or can't police ourselves from within sure as eggs is eggs, somebody else (the government) will most certainly do it for us - as the USA did in terms of impossing restrictions on the keeping of large boids. 



Debbie1962 said:


> Play nicely people:notworthy:.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> It is not a case of 'playing nicely' it is yet another case of someone asking for advice (which in itself is not the issue) - being given advice and then failing to acting upon it.
> 
> This thread has been going on for how many weeks now and the poor lizard is still no closer to being given an enclosure which is fit for purpose.
> 
> ...


Yes but there are ways and means of getting a point across and having digs at people won't help it will just make the poster disappear and the animal will definately suffer.

As for the poster there are some very knowledgeable people on here that just want the best for your lizard. I hope you can take their suggestions on board.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

What you need to understand is a reptile in good overall health to begin with can survive for surprisingly long periods without anything to eat - not recommeneded I may add but they can if needs be. 

What they can't survive is sub-optimum living conditions. 

It is like you being fed healthy meals with loads of supplimentary vitamins and minerals with as much fresh water as you want yet you are living outside in the freezing cold without any additional heat or shelter - your health won't be long in suffering even if your diet is perfect it is the same for your reptile. 

Please don't think that I (or anyone else as far as I can see) is against you personally and the fact you have come onto this forum asking for advice suggests that you genuinely want what is best for your animal but you need to act upon the information you are being given - we all just want to help for the sake of the animal at the end of the day. 



Leighton Blears said:


> Just a pointer I will act on what I have been told, I will try to get the temperatures to above 30 on the basking point. He seems to be eating and looks to be a fussy eater. At this point in time my setup seems to be fine (apart from the basking temperature). I will see what I can do and I will hopefully get it up even higher as I will do anything to keep my lizard in good shape, I don't want anything bad to happen to him. I was more bothered about the diet because he hadn't eaten for quite a few days and I wasn't sure what I was going to do because I had been told that they can't stay on a constant diet of wax worms as they are full of fat.
> 
> I will keep in touch and I will update you on what's happened. For the time being, do you know if there are any other types of worms that I could feed him in the mean time?


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I can't see anything in this thread that has been anything other than helpful. 

People give up their own time to help others - as you yourself do to moderate this site - so it is extremely frustrating and distressing for those giving the advice, that this animal is still suffering due to what seems the owners lack of urgency or understanding in terms of improving the conditions this animal is being kept in. 

But yes, as you say. To the original poster, please take on board the advice given in this thread. 



Debbie1962 said:


> Yes but there are ways and means of getting a point across and having digs at people won't help it will just make the poster disappear and the animal will definately suffer.
> 
> As for the poster there are some very knowledgeable people on here that just want the best for your lizard. I hope you can take their suggestions on board.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I totally agree with what you said, however it is hard to provide for an animal when I am being told many different things. I know that temperatures are the most important thing, him eating means nothing if he can't digest the minerals and I will get his temperatures up. But I still do want to know the diet of the animal. I will not let this animal die as I am a huge animal lover and I am fascinated by him. It's just a matter of getting the right information.

I promise you that in 2 years time, my water dragon will be healthy. I don't agree with animal cruelty and I want to provide the best for the animal, and I have spent quite a few nights worrying about him, mainly because of his eating patterns.

I will get his temperatures up as soon as i can. I will stay on the forums for advise, just know that I will do anything for my water dragon (Dave), he's so cute and fascinating and I would be heart broken if anything bad happened to him.

He has cost me a lot of money already but that doesn't mean I won't spend more money on him.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Okay, the temperature of his basking point is starting to rise. It is now on 34 degres, I can't remember the wattage of the bulb but the temperature is slowly rising, he is at the bottom right now and he is still active.

Do you have any other ways to keep the temperature at a certain point, or to make it rise?


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> I can't see anything in this thread that has been anything other than helpful.


I won't be pointing out where there was some digging going on between a couple of members. Let's just say it wasn't helpful. Unless I missed something.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

To be honest I don't want arguments, all I want is for my dragon to grow and be happy. People can say what they want, it doesn't change the fact that I will still do anything for him.

All I need is some help and advise


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Leighton Blears said:


> To be honest I don't want arguments, all I want is for my dragon to grow and be happy. People can say what they want, it doesn't change the fact that I will still do anything for him.
> 
> All I need is some help and advise


If you follow the advice given I am sure he will do fine. I don't have experience with water dragons so cannot offer advice myself.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

His temperature lowered a lot because I was in it and I sprayed water to keep up the humidity. It is on 30 at the moment and is rising still.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Debbie1962 said:


> I won't be pointing out where there was some digging going on between a couple of members. Let's just say it wasn't helpful. Unless I missed something.


"Digging" going on, madam??? I`ve spent a fair few HOURS trying to offer some reliable advise to the OP as have other members, so far not much indication that much has changed, and as a consequence the animal is still not being supported properly.
To the OP: An IR temp-gun will cost you around £8 to £10, without that piece of equipment you cannot possibly achieve the necessary accuracy regarding the basking surface temps which are of PARAMOUNT importance (I`m not "shouting") and I provided a link well over a week ago. I will now leave you to it and find something more productive to do with my very precious time. Is it any wonder these websites are dying....


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

You weren't digging at the poster that is not what I meant. I am sure he is grateful for all your help. I apologise if I have offended you.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

I'm grateful for your help, it's just hard to do everything you advise when I get told different things. Temperatures are the most important and when I look on different sites that tell me one thing, and others tell me something different it's hard for me to make a decision. I will do all I can, thanks for the help


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

It's natural your enclosure temperatures will drop a little during periods of spraying, or opening the enclosure for maintenance, it's just a fact of the typical average British household, don't worry too much about that. 

You just need to focus on your basking zone temperature being in the range we advised for the times your not in the enclosure or spraying. 

When I spray my tropical lizards the temperature drops sometimes by about 7-10 degrees breifly, but within 20 minutes the temperature stablizes again. (sometimes more) 

I personally don't use thermostats for lizards like this. (I find them far too fiddly and make things more complex than they have to be!) 

I work with a simple drop or raise method. It's very simple logic. 
The closer a basking platform is to the lamp, the hotter it will be as I explained I can get 38 degree Celsius readings at my basking spots with R80 reflector lamps of E27 fitting 60w well enough with a branch sat vertically underneath the lamp distanced at 8 inches away (BUT that is for me) though it may be a little playing around on your part depending on your own individual homes temperatures. 

If it is too hot, either lower the branch, or lower the wattage of the lamp until you get the desired reading. 

Based on the information you have given (and assuming you are taking the temperatures correctly) I would be tempted to raise your branch or basking platform an inch or two higher than you have it and this should hopefully be a more accurate reading. 

When you come to house him in something more permanent (which I expect will be very soon if all is sorted) it will be the exact same principle with the drop and raise methods to acheive a desired basking temperature. 

Good luck. :2thumb:


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

The enclosure he is currently in is suitable for a long period of time, it is 3 ft long and 2 ft high, as I have said before he is only young. The temperatures are starting to reach the point that you said, currently it is at almost 35 degres celcius and the other areas are about 24-26 and the lowest point under his bark is around 23. 

The branch is at the highest point, being around an inch or two away from the light, and if he stands at the very top the temperatures are even higher.


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Hey, I am not really up on what temps water dragons need specifically but thought I would poke my nose in... If in doubt as to what temperatures you are being advised to use, I would go with the higher option. So long as your lizard has the ability to move away from the heat when he needs to then having a basking spot that is a little on the warm side wil do far less harm than having a temp sit on the low side.

The easiest way to increase the basking temperature will be either to raise the basking spot (or lower the lamp - as long as it is still out of his reach - rasing the basking spot will help you achieve a better gradient across the viv) or to use a higher wattage bulb - advisable if the cool end temperatures are sitting too low also.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Leighton Blears said:


> The enclosure he is currently in is suitable for a long period of time, it is 3 ft long and 2 ft high, as I have said before he is only young. The temperatures are starting to reach the point that you said, currently it is at almost 35 degres celcius and the other areas are about 24-26 and the lowest point under his bark is around 23.
> 
> The branch is at the highest point, being around an inch or two away from the light, and if he stands at the very top the temperatures are even higher.




Water dragons can get big, and they grow quite rapidly in my experience. Just saying.


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Leighton Blears said:


> The enclosure he is currently in is suitable for a long period of time, it is 3 ft long and 2 ft high, as I have said before he is only young. The temperatures are starting to reach the point that you said, currently it is at almost 35 degres celcius and the other areas are about 24-26 and the lowest point under his bark is around 23.
> 
> *The branch is at the highest point, being around an inch or two away from the light*, and if he stands at the very top the temperatures are even higher.


I just read this post properly and realised what it said. If the bulb needs to be 2 inches away from the branch to acheiev close to the right temperature then the bulb wattage must surely be way too low?
What kind of bulb are you using? 
I would recommend either a spotlight bulb or a halogen flood bulb ( which would be too intense for the size of enclosure you have) Water dragons do need *lots* of space so the 3ft iv wont be big enough for very long. If he is male he will end up needing something like 6ftx 3ftx 5ft if not more.

Sorry if these points have already been brought up but I admit I only read the original post and the most recent few pages of the thread.


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## Leighton Blears (Oct 10, 2016)

Final specs; So the temperatures are almost there, almost 36 degres in his basking point which is between the reccomended 35-38. The humidity is around 80%. His tank is big enough for the time being as he is still very small. He has lots of plants in there as well as logs for him to climb, he can reach the highest point on his basking spot which is great. The UVB light is 10%, and he is eating meal worms now (providing that I put them in front of him).

All I have to do now is wait for him to grow. Thanks for all your help, he seems to be doing well now. If I need any more help I will be in contact with you.


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