# 100% het pied



## lawrencet1988 (Jan 2, 2010)

Am i right in thinking a 100%pied male mated with a 100%pied female will produce all pied royals?


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## jamiequin (Jul 19, 2009)

i just posted same thing pretty much in snakes.

i know you will get visual pieds, but not sure if it will be a total clutch of them or not..


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

lawrencet1988 said:


> Am i right in thinking a 100%pied male mated with a 100%pied female will produce all pied royals?


no.

25% Pied
25% normal
50% het Pied.

The normal and het Pieds will all look normal and as you wont be able to tell the difference they are labelled as possible hets or 66% hets.

% are chance per egg, you might not get any Pieds first time round.
It could take 3/4/5 seasons to produce a visual Pied


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## jamiequin (Jul 19, 2009)

i see! so basicly, a 66percent het pied could be a total normal? or 100% het pied?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

jamiequin said:


> i see! so basicly, a 66percent het pied could be a total normal? or 100% het pied?


could be, you'd need to put it to a visual Pied to prove it either way.

Its also why I cant see why people pay more for poss hets:bash:


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## lawrencet1988 (Jan 2, 2010)

so if you bred two visual pieds together your more likely to get visual pied offspring? or would you have the same chance with a het x visual pied?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

lawrencet1988 said:


> so if you bred two visual pieds together your more likely to get visual pied offspring? or would you have the same chance with a het x visual pied?


if you breed two visual Pieds there is only Pied genes to pass on so you'd get 100% visual Pieds.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

lawrencet1988 said:


> so if you bred two visual pieds together your more likely to get visual pied offspring? or would you have the same chance with a het x visual pied?


Homozygous means that the two genes in a gene pair are the same. Two copies of the normal gene or two copies of a mutant gene.

Heterozygous means that the two genes in a gene pair are not the same. The most common type of heterozygous gene pair is a mutant gene and a normal gene.

As heterozygous pied royals look normal, the pied mutant gene is recessive to the normal gene. When a heterozygous royal does not look normal, the mutant gene is either dominant or codominant to the normal gene.

Normal gene = wild type gene = the most common gene at a given location in the chromosomes in the wild population. In this case the given location is the one that the pied mutant gene is found in.

Mutant gene = not the most common gene at a given location in the chromosomes in the wild population. 

homozygous pied = 2 pied mutant genes, which produces pied royals
heterozygous (= het) pied = 1 pied mutant gene and 1 normal gene, which produces normal-looking royals
homozygous normal = 2 normal genes, which produces normal royals

There are 5 possible matings with at least 1 pied mutant gene:

1. homozygous pied X homozygous pied -->
all babies are homozygous pied (and are pied)

2. homozygous pied X heterozygous pied -->
1/2 homozygous pied (and are pied)
1/2 heterozygous pied (look normal)

3. homozygous pied X homozygous normal -->
all babies are heterozygous pied (and look normal)

4. heterozygous pied X heterozygous pied -->
1/4 homozygous pied (pied)
2/4 heterozygous pied (look normal)
1/4 homozygous normal (look normal)
The normal looking babies are 66% probability het pied.

5. heterozygous pied X homozygous normal -->
1/2 heterozygous pied (look normal)
1/2 homozygous normal (look normal)
These are the 50% probability heterozygous pieds


By the way, the fractions are the probability per egg, not per clutch. And 100% het pied means het pied. The "100%" is redundant.

There are a lot of definitions in this post, but I wanted to be sure that we were using the terms as they are used in standard genetics. Hope this helps.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

markhill said:


> could be, you'd need to put it to a visual Pied to prove it either way.
> 
> Its also why I cant see why people pay more for poss hets:bash:


 
but thats obvious....

normal royal = NO chance at all of anything except normal offspring

Possible hets = chance of something special

50/50 is not bad odds
66/33 is even better odds...


....clearly the chance of a het is worth more than no chance. Camalot, William Hill and Ladbrokes do very well indeed on exactly this principle.......

it is blatently clear why possible hets are worth more than normals.



Whether or not *you* choose to gamble or not has nothing to do with the economics of value..... 

Cheers

Andy

p.s. I paid £100 more for my hypo boa because it was 50% poss het albino. I actually didn't care at the time as I just wanted the hypo, and that snake in particular. When an oportunity came up for an adult female albino, I went for it due to the 'poss' het. Even if it didn't prove out, I would still get 100% dbl het sunglows so was worth a punt. As it happens I got lucky and he did prove out meaning my first litter covered the cost of the male and the female and gave me some left over....and I still have both snakes and the rest of their lives worth of litters......

p.p.s I would never buy a 50% or 66% het if I was specifically after a particular morph, but I'll happily pay a bit extra for a morph if it is also 66% or 50% something else.....


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

bothrops said:


> but thats obvious....
> 
> normal royal = NO chance at all of anything except normal offspring
> 
> ...


yeah, I'd pay a bit extra for say a Spider poss het clown as you get the Spider gene but I wouldn't pay extra for a normal poss het clown unless it was an adult female of breedable wieght/age and even then I'd only pay £20-£30 more than a normal.


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

markhill said:


> yeah, I'd pay a bit extra for say a Spider poss het clown


 
how's the lil fella doing now?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

alan1 said:


> how's the lil fella doing now?


he's ok, not holding my breath on the het Clown bit (its only 25%) but as I didn't pay extra for that I'm not too bothered.: victory:


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