# RSPCA - Good, Bad or Ugly?



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Okay, 

So we constantly criticise them?

Boys in blue!

Charity do gooders or political hunters?

Not doing the job properly......?

Or do they, but are simply not educated to the right degree when it comes to the exotic fraternities?

So in an ideal world, where do 'you' the keeper see the RSPCA in our future?

Should they be disbanded?

At a then risk that there would be hundreds of personnel into the unemployed market segment?

Or should they be...............what?

Are we ever going to be in a position where RSPCA and Exotic community can work side by side?

So tell me in a world where we may have a choice, what would you see done with the RSPCA?

Rory Matier

Pro Keepers Lobby


----------



## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

My personal experience of the RSPCA as they need to be disbanded asap, unfortunately with the new AWA most local authorities are looking to them to enforce it and prosecute as they don't have the manpower or funds to do so themselves.

They are too quick to want to intimidate, Uniforms and ranks just like the police, I think its no coincidence they call their ground workers 'inspectors', they train to gain entry and remove animals with intimidation tactics. I got told 'I can come back with the police and then YOU'LL have to let me in' I replied 'go ahead luvvie I'll get the bacon butties ready but you are a charity worker and have no right to enter my property without my permission'

For any animal welfare issues I believe we should be like the USA in that their workers are government employees who are regulated by the laws of the land and have legally given powers of removal, prosecution etc. WE need to educate people of the appalling conditions and actions the RSPCA take in the name of cruelty prevention, their refusal to deal directly with pedigree breed rescues be it dogs or cats. Their practise of rehoming animals that ended up pregnant in THEIR care or known escapee's who can be picked up on the streets time and again despite the new owners efforts to keep them a secure garden, great money spinner that at £90 per time adoption fee!


----------



## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

If the RSPCA gets disbanded, who is going to rescue/take in etc all the unwanted, lost, abandoned hurt animals that they do now?

I believe higher degree of education and training is needed for their 'officers'.

And maybe they could do public liason with 'pet' owners to gain a knowledge of our views, practices etc?

I just think it needs to be better informed and better run


----------



## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

mmm, where to start?

We are all against cruelty to animals, and on this forum to Reptiles and amphibs and inverts.

However, its the way we go about it that matters.

I have no doubt whatsoever that those RSPCA inspectors on the ground do what they belive to be in the animals interest.

They have a job to do, they have to do it in the way they are trained. 

Its that training that is in question, the aims of the training, the reasons, the goal.

Lets face it, the RSPCA very own care guide for Leopard Geckos clearly states that calci sand is digestable ! Reserach has shown time and time again that its not. So, here we have a society, see in many peoples eyes as the protector of animals, openly suggesting using a potential killer substrate. 

Why?

Is it that they dont know?

Is it because they WANT to come across situations of suffering? Will an impacted leo cause someone , somewhere to donate more cash?

Is it that thier advisors are wrong? who are the advisors? Why do these advisors give advice?

Why is it that the RSPCA seem to cross swords with reptile societies rather than feed off the expertise these societies have?

I say that using the collective RSPCA, I know of inspectors who are only to willing to listen and learn from us. 

But this istelf leads to problems. My local inspector, having learnt all about the percentage volume of calci sand that is not digestable, either has to openly disagree with the 'official' advice or knowingly give and stand by incorrect info.

I am sure the way forward is proper responsible societies who give the right advice, care and support to all members and to the likes of the RSPCA, who then use that resource to aid them in ensuring the protection of our animals. Working together as a team.

2 goals : Education and welfare.

This all assumes of course that the RSPCA do acknowledge that in general reptiles can be kept as 'pets' with the correct equipment, or do they indeed belive that they are totally incompatable with humans. if so, why?

If the former is true, yes, I belive they and us can live and work together to ensure the future wellbeing of our animals.

If the latter is true, then, no we will never see eye to eye, and right now, I see them (and thier buddies) squaring up for a battle.

Tony


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think it about time ht eRSPCA actually held thier hands up and told the public that they NEED more training ofr thier staff, they NEED more people on side who have experience with exotics, they NEED to know how ot take hte first steps into working with keepers instead of against them.

Disbanded - maybe but only if a system could take htier place where the intimidation tactics, the militant heirarchy, the total bulls*it they often spout stopped.

I actually watched osme of the RSPCA's programme on channel 5 last night and was amazed to hear one of thier "officers" state on ntional telly "we have no legal right to enter a property and rmeove animals unless ther eis a police officer present and a vet who will sign paperwork to say the animal is suffering!!"

To say I was shocked was an understatement.

The RSPCA need to go back tot hier roots - too the time before Queen Victoria decided to affiliate them with the Royal family and the itme when the protection of animals was at the forefront of thier minds.

Protection is not what they do any more - they preach about rights which they don't enforce within thier own centres and farms, they care more about prosecution figures thant hey do of the rising destruciton figures that come out of htier offices each year and they care mor ebaout thier ridiculously huge bank reserve than they do in fundng thier centres so they can have properly trained staff for ALL fields of pet keeping.

(<<< goes off to put soapbox back lol)


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

The RSPCA need to be educated pure and simple, but then so do many animal keepers.

The majority of the AWA is correct and decent and is there to protect the welfare of the animals it was created for... however we are talking WELFARE. The RSPCA officer needs to be able to ascertain whether or not an animal is being kept in such a way as to cause it suffering... or not.

At the moment, with the Codes of Practice being bandied about... all they are interested in are the very basics. How big is the vivarium, do you have guards on the heating, does it have fresh water, are you feeding it live food, is there faeces and shed skin lying about in the viv, does the snake have mites... All this is very basic stuff... and if it is wrong then you do not deserve to be keeping the animal and you deserve to lose it.

But this tells you nothing about the welfare of the animal...

Does the RSPCA inspector know what temperature and humidity levels each species should be kept at ? 

Does the RSPCA inspector know what scale rot looks like ?

Does the RSPCA inspector know what a respiratory infection looks and sounds like ?

Does the RSPCA inspector know what mouth rot looks like ?

Is the RSPCA inspector capable of checking the animal over for any of these things or will the be too scared of the animal to do so ?

Now given that a vast number of keepers do not know the answers to all these questions, it's a fair bet that the RSPCA inspector who has not received any training is not going to know either.

The AWA is policed by the LOCAL AUTHORITY... it is NOT policed by the RSPCA. We should, as a hobby led by the FBH, be talking to the Local Authorities ourselves and telling them that the RSPCA do not know about keeping reptiles or amphibians in captivity. Maybe that way, when something is reported with regard to a reptile being kept, the RSPCA will not be their first port of call to assist them.


----------



## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

This is an extremely difficult question to answer because of all the variables. From the earliest days there has been genuine, good people trying hard to help animals and be fair to keepers, right from the very lowest ranks and almost up to the very highest ranks. 
Sadly the whole society now appears to be littered with animal rights activists, political nutters, do gooders and jobs worths who are all competing with each other to see who knows the least about the job they are supposed to be doing. Couple this with enough cash in their bank account to buy a medium size country and you start to get something that can rival Adolph and his Nazi party when it comes to being a power mad dictatorship ready to destroy anything or one that stands between them and their ideal world. 
Personally I feel that the rot within has gone too far and the only way forward is to start a new organisation, with new people and proper safe measures in place to stop anything like the current situation ever happening again. 
Give the country a new genuine, open, animal welfare group, with fully trained staff to support and get the activities of the RSPCA right out there in the public domain and I believe lack of donations will quickly bring this abhorrence to an end.
Gordon
Gives Brittone05 back the soap box and says thanks for the loan :lol2:


----------



## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

I do say in my post that a system similar to the USA one which is government controlled and trained with legall authority would be a better way forward.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Schip said:


> I do say in my post that a system similar to the USA one which is government controlled and trained with legall authority would be a better way forward.


Agreed.

From talking to my Local Authority, they are under the impression that RSPCA inspectors are highly trained in all the animals covered by the AWA. It would come as quite a shock if they realised how little the RSPCA actually know about these animals.

Another school of thought of course is for people that ARE knowledgeable in these areas to join the RSPCA and help out.


----------



## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

i think about it like this...
i do agree with the rising amount of reptiles kept they should be covered in any training they do to educate their officers even if its just the bare minimum needs of the snake and is in good health
but if RSPCA officer says you need calci sand and UV lighting for leopard geckos and a 6ft cage with UV lighting for a ball python but it going against what you have been told by other keepers and in books or you think countless toys for your breeder rats are a gimmick and they do well with just a wheel for excercise and maybe some chew things to keep their teeth down...who is the right person? 
is it also considered creulty to endanger the life of your animals and would they be made accountable for any ill health from the advice they gave? as why risk your pets health when so easily prevented with using another substrate and knowing that small surroundings help nervous snakes feed better


----------



## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

I've done some work with both the RSPCA and the RSPB in relation to the Parrots and English bred birds - to be honest despite your experience and knowledge I've found them to be aggressive towards us 'lay experts' as they called me most of the time they disregarded my advice so I'm afraid I just gave up they were going to do what they wanted to do no matter what anyone else said.

The only time I got involved after that was when the police brought animals to us from RTA's or sudden deaths, burglaries etc.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

rankindude2 said:


> i think about it like this...
> i do agree with the rising amount of reptiles kept they should be covered in any training they do to educate their officers even if its just the bare minimum needs of the snake and is in good health
> but if RSPCA officer says you need calci sand and UV lighting for leopard geckos and a 6ft cage with UV lighting for a ball python but it going against what you have been told by other keepers and in books or you think countless toys for your breeder rats are a gimmick and they do well with just a wheel for excercise and maybe some chew things to keep their teeth down...who is the right person?
> is it also considered creulty to endanger the life of your animals and would they be made accountable for any ill health from the advice they gave?


There is no 'right person' involved Lee. Once a Code Of Practice has been drawn up and passed for Royal Pythons, it becomes law. If that law states that a 5 foot long royal python must be housed in a vivarium that is at least 5 feet in length... then you are breaking the law if you keep it in anything smaller.

This is not about the RSPCA's opinions anymore, it's about the law. You are either withing the law, or you are not there will be very few grey areas. As AWA inspectors, you can be told to get a bigger vivarium if that is what the AWA specifies and if you do not they can prosecute you.

Your only defence in court will be to show that the way you keep your animals conforms to the CoP for that species as specified by the AWA. If you can not do this, you will lose the case.


----------



## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Trouble is Steve the law is dictated by less knowledgeable folk as my experience with the docking law has shown me the RSPCA has a lot of clout within ministerial circles so their views are given more credance.

Unfortunately non of my Royals would feed or breed in a viv let alone one of that sort of size believe me I've tried but after 4mths of non feeding youngsters its like OK I give in rack it is and off they go stuffing their faces like there's no tomorrow. 

One thing I will say from my parrot society membership if you self regulate and issue dimensions and codes of good practise to members then the government tend to use that to set the law rather than mess trying to get their own sorted.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

That is VERY interesting.

They seem to have no qualms about asking 'lay experts' to give expert witness evidence in court once they have confiscated animals from their owners.




Schip said:


> I've done some work with both the RSPCA and the RSPB in relation to the Parrots and English bred birds - to be honest despite your experience and knowledge I've found them to be aggressive towards us 'lay experts' as they called me most of the time they disregarded my advice so I'm afraid I just gave up they were going to do what they wanted to do no matter what anyone else said.
> 
> The only time I got involved after that was when the police brought animals to us from RTA's or sudden deaths, burglaries etc.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Schip said:


> One thing I will say from my parrot society membership if you self regulate and issue dimensions and codes of good practise to members then the government tend to use that to set the law rather than mess trying to get their own sorted.


Unfortunately for us, the RSPCA are already issuing their own thoughts about dimensions in their published care guides. For Royal Pythons, their care guide states that the animal should be kept in a glass fronted vivarium the length of which should be no less than the length of the snake.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Is it not possible for the FBH to draw up a code of practice and let the RSPCA know that a royal wouldnt be happy with the viv conditions that the RSPCA are saying is the correct way for them to be kept?
Not only that does anyone actually know who advises the RSPCA on the care of the reptiles? it in my opinion should be either the BHS or the FBH or an organization of the similar standing.
Having not dealt with the RSPCA in Brighton i cant comment yet on to how they handle things, but i do agree that they need to have a hell of a lot more knowledge as far as reps are concerned an example is 
We had a lady ring us after speaking to the RSPCA (she had found a snake)
They told her it must be a slow worm or a grass snake as there was no way it could be anything else she described it to them over the phone and their conclusion was just to leave it outside with her cat :S 
Well she call us up and sent us a picture of it (it was a corn) but they told her there was no way they would go and collect it because she couldnt prove it was not hers or that it wasnt a native species.

Now if thats the kind of advice they are offering people about reptiles id much rather get mine from here. 

What really cracks me up though and it prob has nothing to do with this thread....... Is that this forum is probley the largest collection of reptile keepers in the uk but how many of you can say that you will stand united with the rest if we all decided to tell the RSPCA where to stick their laws with reptiles? . 

Yes i know there are quite a few people on here that do things like that with a passion but im talking about the type of people that walk in to a pet shop and buy a snake with out knowing how its meant to be kept before they buy it.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

The RSPCA and the FBH were well along the road to coming to an agreement called the Memorandum Of Understanding about 3-4 years ago. this came to nothing and we were told that the Ruling Council of the RSPCA declared that they would not work with the FBH, so it came to nothing.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Faith said:


> What really cracks me up though and it prob has nothing to do with this thread....... Is that this forum is probley the largest collection of reptile keepers in the uk but how many of you can say that you will stand united with the rest if we all decided to tell the RSPCA where to stick their laws with reptiles? .


They are not the RSPCA's laws though, they are the governments laws. The RSPCA are just being used to enforce those laws.

It's all very well saying "Tell them where to stick it", but try doing that when the police are there with a warrant allowing them and the RSPCA inspectors access to your house.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Valid points so far*

Hi, 

Well it would appear that there are quite a few valid and interesting points to be seen from this thread so far.

The fact is that Steve is correct, these will become governmental laws, not RSPCA laws, but they will be used to enforce them.

Faiths' comment:

"What really cracks me up though and it prob has nothing to do with this thread....... Is that this forum is probley the largest collection of reptile keepers in the uk but how many of you can say that you will stand united with the rest if we all decided to tell the RSPCA where to stick their laws with reptiles?" . 

Well if the RSPCA are to be informed by the keepers of the United Kingdom, then that is something that must be done and as many people whom are there to stand up and be counted there are equally as many whom will just sit tight thinking it will go away.

PKL do have a campaign aimed at the RSPCA entitled 'Worthy of Investigation?' that is currently being researched. But the biggest fault does lie with the average keeper, and the biggest plight the hobbies face is actually getting the keepers to not only stand up and unite but to actually acknowledge properly that there is a serious problem in the first place.

We are hard and fast turning into a clinical society for way too many people keepers and non keepers are are biting into the acceptance cake - of it will never happen or worse it will never happen to us.

Is there a place for the RSPCA?

YES of course there is but they NEED to accept education and training. In the main, l do not distrust their welfare concerns, but they are a charity supposedly aimed at animal welfare and care, they are not a charity aimed at supporting and appearing to look like PAL or CAPS or PETA in their overall disapproving approach to keepers.

Do they need to be disbanded? No, but they do need reshuffling and they need it now. I have nothing against the land based units, for there are some bloody good people whom are as already said willing to listen, but sad but true many that do not.

RSPCA read what l write, you have those whom watch this forum, this is a well known fact. So which part of logical understanding and comprehension do you not follow? If keepers of the UNITED KINGDOM are willing to assist you in the redevelopment of your inspectorate why do you continually rebuff them?

Keepers read well, if nothing is done to protect your hobby and it must be done from within then the likes of the political RSPCA will enforce you to the ground. If you were to show a united front and a political opposition instead of continually just thinking about it, you may stand a much better stead. 

I will attack the headquarters of the RSPCA for their at times complete lack of generalised understanding and refusal to move along side the keepers and owners of the UK in a non political front. I will campaign against you endlessly in an attempt to see if you can understand that this aggressive prosecutional level that you undertake is not the way forwards to winning friends.

But equally as such keepers of the UK you must learn that if you want to see results and continue to keep what you are passionate about, then you must make a stand, and if not a stand then start to raise your heads higher above the parapets. For the longer you keep them hidden, then when you do riase them, there will be nothing to really look at.

The RSPCA are a charity, that is it, they are not 'anti establishment political fanatics'.........oh Gosh! Hang on yes they are.......but that is where they go wrong. Return to the original founding of the RSPCA, animal welfare not political battle. The people put you into the power through donation and legacy, the people can pull you down.

But hey, that is only if the 'people' can see that, isn't it?

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


----------



## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

Something I keep coming back to is the fact that the RSPCA stated ten years ago that they don't consider reptiles to be suitable pets and nobody should keep them. They've put their cards on the table, they don't want us to have them at all. As such, they have little interest in making sure they're kept in the proper conditions. Their vested interest is in making it as difficult as possible to keep reptiles so the hobby will decline. It's a lot easier than going for an all out ban. The RSPCA has repeatly abused its status as a highly trusted charity to pursue a political agenda that contradicts the beliefs of most of its public supporters and donors. 

Unfortunately, individuals complaining about it won't do anything. You have to look to groups like the FBH, BHS and IHS to take an official stance about it on behalf of their members but I doubt any of them would risk that. Maybe if an organisation like FOCAS put together glossy 'official' care sheets and advice for keeping various exotics and pushed them really hard, it might have enough weight to come into consideration under the AWA CoP.

As I've said before, I think most of the people at the bottom end of the RSPCA are in it for the right reasons and doing the best they can, especially all the local rescue centres. They don't care about political agenda and their only problem is the policy they have dictated to them and the twisted training they are given.

The further you work up the organisation tree, the worse it seems to become and the more direct and indirect links with animal rights groups and activists you find. That's where the problem really is. To be honest, I think it might run to deep to ever repair the damage. You'd have to cull away half the bureaucrats and administrators to make a serious difference to policy but then who'd get sucked in to fill the void? Probably just more animal rights motivated bodies with a few political strings in their hands.

It makes me wish we could rally enough public support and donations to start up an independant exotics protection and rescue society that could steal away that section of animal keeping from the RSPCA but it's just a dream. Even if enough people got behind it, changing the mis-informed public image of exotics keepers that animal rights groups and such like to promote is an uphill struggle and we won't get general public support until we make some headway there.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*.*

Sad, but very true
R


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

I understand what you mean they are the government laws but its the RSPCA that enforce them, what i meant was if the rep keepers were the ones to advise the RSPCA on the best way to care for the reps. (im not talking about people with no idea im talking about well known long term keepers) would that not then help all of us?
The RSPCA seem to have more 'clout' where the government is concerned compared to the bog standard herp keeper, so who are advising the government on the subject of reptiles on the animal welfare bill?
Would that person even know the difference between a corn and a royal?

Personal opinion we 'need' the RSPCA on our side sad i know but that seems the only way to be able to get the government to understand that just because a snake is 6ft long it does not need a 6 ft viv 

In their mind how would we be able to house a 16ft burm? in a 16ft viv?


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Faith said:


> The RSPCA seem to have more 'clout' where the government is concerned compared to the bog standard herp keeper, so who are advising the government on the subject of reptiles on the animal welfare bill?


The RSPCA, the Animal Rights Organisiations ( Like CAPS, Animal Aid, ... ) and Chris Newman on behalf of FOCAS.

FOCAS is just one voice amid a chorus of other voices backed up with wads of cash.

This is why FOCAS needs the support of every keeper that it represents.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

So basically our representation on the awb is Chris Newman? 
If that is what you are saying that means amist all the people that are supporting the 'small furies' we only have a droplet in a huge puddle?
Would it not make sense then to have more than one person that has dealt with exotics to be on board?

I could possibly just not be understanding you correctly though so if thats the case im sorry in advance


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Would it not be right to say htat our representation SHOULd lie within every keeper int he UK??

Yes, from a political angle, there needsto be a team who deal directly with other groups, politicians etc but where does that person or team get thier support from?

Should be each adn every single one of us don't ya think


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

I 100% agree with that yes we should all support the person that is representing us to the government where the awb is concerned.

sounds silly but just like it is with all other kinds of issues in this country its no longer "united we stand, divided we fall" its "divided we stand untied we fall" and no matter how hard we try to change that at the end of the day it boils down to the fact that 90% of people in the country will not stand up for what they believe in due to the fact they are petrified of what consequences they will face


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Our main representation on the AWA is FOCAS. Chris Newman is the chairman of FOCAS and attends meetings on behalf of all the societies that FOCAS represents. As far as I am aware, FOCAS is drawing up it's own codes of practise for the AWA, which of course we would like to see implemented. But the others also want to see theirs implemented.

I believe there are a few other societies that represent keepers but these are vastly outnumbered by as Rory puts it, those that oppose us. So yes, by far our main voice is Chris Newman.

Our hobby does not have any political representation other than the FBH and FOCAS and Chris is the chairman of both... so Faith, unless someone is prepared to give up their time to help and go to meetings and become a target for the Animal rights campaigners... who do you suggest stands up there with him ?


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Im not saying i suggest any particular single person to stand with him i suggest all herp keepers if they agree with the policies of FOCUS stand with them. After all is it not US that its affecting?
As ive said before it really annoys me that there are people that love keeping reptiles but are not willing to stand up for their right to have them as pets in the long run 

Id personally give up some of the spare time i have to talk to my MP etc about the awb as long as i had guidance from the correct people on how to go about it and what questions need to be answered first


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Sorry hun, I knew what you were saying. I should not have put your name there as the questions was supposed to be rhetorical 

Apologies ... it was not aimed at you... but at the hobby in general.

It would be great if we had other bodies willing to stand alongside FOCAS in the political arena and fight for our rights to keep our pets in the best way possible and not as dictated to by people with little or no experience.


----------



## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

Faith said:


> what i meant was if the rep keepers were the ones to advise the RSPCA on the best way to care for the reps. (im not talking about people with no idea im talking about well known long term keepers) would that not then help all of us?


They will not listen because they have no interest in doing so, It's already been tried. They have outright refused help from major reptile societies and won't work with them. The RSPCA upper management long ago decided that people should not be keeping reptiles. They have published reports to support their position on this that contain outright fictitious information that was obviously not researched at all. Everything you see now is part of a gradual drift towards the removal of reptiles from private keeping.



> The RSPCA seem to have more 'clout' where the government is concerned compared to the bog standard herp keeper, so who are advising the government on the subject of reptiles on the animal welfare bill?
> Would that person even know the difference between a corn and a royal?


It's amazing how many laywers and full time lobbyists, not to mention political favours can be bought with the level of funding they have. As has been mentioned, something like 6p from every pound gets to the front line while they have enough money in the bank to buy a small country, or failing that, fund the invasion.



> Personal opinion we 'need' the RSPCA on our side sad i know but that seems the only way to be able to get the government to understand that just because a snake is 6ft long it does not need a 6 ft viv


Unless you could seriously tear apart and restructure the core of the organisation, that will never happen. Their objective is to gradually get rid of us, not to ensure to continuation of the hobby. Until that changes, on some level they will always represent 'the enemy' of private keepers.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

So are you saying the RSPCA will not join forces with FOCUS?

I bet a lot of groups didnt think people would join them when they first started but people did join and share the same opinion 

So what about the BHS and the FBH join forces with FOCUS that way they have more man power so to speak. 

i may just be firing questions in the dark but id ask the correct people if i knew how to contact them and if for a second i thought they would listen


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Affiliations*

Hi Faith, 

In some respects, this co existance already exists.

FBH is affiliated to FOCAS, BHS and IHS are associated but not affiliated to FBH, which they should be to show a higher loyalty factor and a greater strength.

But as said sometimes the weakness is not the organization but those involved within them.

R


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

I agree Rory, If they all joined together to make a larger society it would show that we are prepared to stand united not only that they would then have the support of more members considering if you were a member of FOCUS you would also be a member of the BHS etc 
If the people involved have weaknesses then maybe they should take a long hard look at them selfs 
Again maybe im wrong but just my 2ps worth 

got to run to pick the kids up now lol


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Faith said:


> So are you saying the RSPCA will not join forces with FOCUS?


Never in a million years. They have totally opposite goals.


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Definitely agre Steve - the RSPCA would NEVER allow themselves to be see as affiliated with FOCAS - they are world's apart in thier beleifs and aims.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

ok maybe "join forces" was the wrong term but not ALL their goals can be different :S maybe its me i just cant understand why the RSPCA wouldnt want such a large number of people from the reptile comunity to support them if only they would listen for 5 minutes im sure even then they would learn something.

Talking about that do any of you remember a lady in kent finding a royal under her bath the Rspca "inspector" was quoted in a paper to say that the royal python could have consumed her 4 month baby alive! Now in no way do i doubt that a fully grown royal is capable of suffercating her but never would it have been able to consume her.

Now that is what i call misinformed


----------



## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

Faith said:


> ok maybe "join forces" was the wrong term but not ALL their goals can be different :S maybe its me i just cant understand why the RSPCA wouldnt want such a large number of people from the reptile comunity to support them if only they would listen for 5 minutes im sure even then they would learn something.


They don't want our support. They want to gradually get rid of us altogether. Their long term goal is no longer to promote better keeping, it's to discourage keeping and make it increasingly difficult for those that want to pursue the hobby. It really is that simple at the end of the day.

The RSPCA is not the warm fuzzy organisation we grew up believing in, at least not anymore. I really, really wish they were. Unfortunately, over the last ten years they have increasingly shifted to pursuing a political agenda that is at odds with their public image. This hasn't been caused by outside pressure, it has been a subversion from within. Many of the only people with the direct power to do anything about it are the same people that set this corrupted agenda in motion so don't expect the RSPCA to want to change anything.

I know it all sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory... until you actually start trying to look into it.


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It has long been rumoured ( for at least 10 years ) that the RSPCA ruling council has members of Animal Aid making up it's numbers. I cannot personally say whether this is true or not since I have no idea who is on the ruling council but given their bogus reports that were commissioned by them like "A long way from home", it is a rumour that is not difficult to believe.

Animal Aid's stated aim is to end reptile keeping altogether. They have pressured councils into banning shows and they have pressured retailers into stopping the sale of animals. I believe, but could be wrong, that they were the group responsible for digging up a corpse in a bid to get a guinea pig breeder to stop supplying animals to a testing laboratory.

IF these things are true, these are the people that control the RSPCA and their agenda will be the end of pet keeping in the UK.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Had a personal experiance with a worker from the rspca yesterday (one of them ones that come knocking for cash) 
Well he asked what pets we keep, i stood at the door and realed them off he looked shocked and then asked if i would like to donate i replied "considering the RSPCA issued a statement a while ago saying that reptiles shouldnt be kept as pets the answer is no" He didnt have a clue what i was on about at all he didnt understand that they are trying to campain against reptile keeping or that they are enforcing laws for the local councils one in perticular being keeping a 6 ft royal in a 6ft tank.

He then asked again if i wanted to donate i told him to come back when the RSPCA supported reptiles and when the money didnt line the pockets of head office he then told me that about 10p of the £2.50 a month would go to a rescue center 
I personally couldnt belive the guys cheek after me telling him no about 4 times he said oh ok we can come back later ffs 
I really really would like a rep from the RSPCA to join the forums and see what really goes on in the reptile comunity, someone that can answer questions put to them but alas its not going to happen if even their collectors dont know what they are collecting for!!!!


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Don't be too certan that the RSPCA don't already have people on the forums Faith - I would actually put money on it!

It is a sad shame that the real agenda of the RSPCA rarely goes any further than the main bods ther e- most of th eitme their own council don't have a clue what is going on so it is highly unlikely that their mere workers would have a idea about anything.

The people who collect are the type of people who should be heading the whole hting IMO - they walk door to door to raise cash for animal welfare, to save animals from sufferig - they don't have any inkling of the political agenda behind the real RSPCA that people like us lot know of


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Faith said:


> he then told me that about 10p of the £2.50 a month would go to a rescue center


10p ... *That's 4% 

*Where does the other 96% go ?


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*96% ?*

96% where does it go?

Good question, 

9 Years ago, possibly here:

BBC News | UK | RSPCA drops declaration for animal rights

Helping the fight maybe?

Where now?

Yes, where does 96% go, if only 4% goes to helping all the suffering animals?
R
PKL


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

brittone05 said:


> Don't be too certan that the RSPCA don't already have people on the forums Faith - I would actually put money on it!
> 
> It is a sad shame that the real agenda of the RSPCA rarely goes any further than the main bods ther e- most of th eitme their own council don't have a clue what is going on so it is highly unlikely that their mere workers would have a idea about anything.
> 
> The people who collect are the type of people who should be heading the whole hting IMO - they walk door to door to raise cash for animal welfare, to save animals from sufferig - they don't have any inkling of the political agenda behind the real RSPCA that people like us lot know of


Well if they are then im personally asking these people to step forward with out people jumping on top of them trying to rip them appart im not talking about the inspectors im talking about the people that decide we are not allowed to keep our reptiles


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

ratboy said:


> 10p ... *That's 4%
> 
> *Where does the other 96% go ?


To be honest he didnt have a clue, he didnt have a clue about any of there opinions or views on reptile keeping. I personally dont think they should be asked to work for the RSPCA if they havent got a clue what their views are on animals big and small or if they havent been trained to answer questions from people that would give them their hard earned cash 

Silly really that people would give money for something they have no idea about


----------

