# Calci Sand



## Reptilerescueden

Do you like or do you not?
Please share your views as many of us are confused.


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## Reptilerescueden

*Understanding the dangers of Calci-Sand*







What they tell you:
*T-Rex Bone Aid Calci-sand:* Made of 100% Calcium Carbonate

*T-Rex Calci-Sand* (being a mineral) is safe in direct contact with heating elements. It conducts heat well and it is suitable for use with heat mats or cables buried under it to a shallow depth. It does not harbor mites and inhibits the growth of molds or fungus. 

*T-Rex Calci-Sand* makes spot cleaning both easy and accurate. Calci-Sand clumps readily to wet waste material, drying it and preventing it from being spread throughout the enclosure. 

*T-Rex Calci-Sand* is now available in nine colors: Chocolate Brown, Red Rock, Natural White, Blue, Green, Cherry Red, Beige, Black ,Glo-in-the-Dark and the newest colors: Black granite and Red Rock Granite. All colors are created with F.D.A. approved natural food colorants.

*What they don't tell you:*

Did you know that there are actually safe handling practices for humans that need to be implemented when handling this mineral. The reason for this is actually simple too. Calcium carbonate comes with some hazards.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/equipment-supplies/89411-calci-sand.html#post1273158


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## Trice

I was told in a reptile shop that it was the perfect substrate for all reptiles, snakes, lizards and tortoises, because no matter how much they eat, they will never become impacted. And they would get the sufficient amount of calcium.

So from that alone i decided i wasnt willing to risk the chance lol


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## CWD

bottom pic is caused by SAND


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## sarah1207

i wouldnt use it myself but i no people that have and there reps have been fine. we have a gecko and he is kepk on repti carpet and seems fine and happy, soon to have babay beardies and they going on good old tesco value kitchen roll


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## Faith

Reptilerescueden said:


> *T-Rex Calci-Sand* makes spot cleaning both easy and accurate. *Calci-Sand clumps readily to wet waste material*, drying it and preventing it from being spread throughout the enclosure.


 
That says enough for anyone with common sence not to use it


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## geckomad

ugh that pic almost made me sick man come on


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## sarah1207

but it happens....... so i think peeps sho0uld deffo use the pictures as well we now now what damage it can do,

some people use it with no problems, 
my brother got his gecko from a garden center and calci sand came in the setup, we soon got rid of if when we seen these pictures(on a differnt website) we now use repti carpet and george seems really happy on that


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## Ssthisto

geckomad said:


> ugh that pic almost made me sick man come on


Yup, it does make you sick. Especially when you consider that the stuff that DID that to the poor gecko is marketed as an acceptable substrate for them!

I lost a gecko to impaction... and I wish I'd seen those photos before I ever considered putting sand in their enclosures.


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## GRB

One of my friends is considering using it. I think it's a difficult matter - there are countless people on both sides saying that they have had/have not had problems with it. I know some people swear by it.

It makes me wonder (with no real reptile expertise) how these animals survive in the wild - surely gut impaction must be relatively common in the wild? Or do they only eat substrate in captivity (poor diet)? I'm confused tbh.


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## Ssthisto

GRB said:


> One of my friends is considering using it. I think it's a difficult matter - there are countless people on both sides saying that they have had/have not had problems with it. I know some people swear by it.
> 
> It makes me wonder (with no real reptile expertise) how these animals survive in the wild - surely gut impaction must be relatively common in the wild? Or do they only eat substrate in captivity (poor diet)? I'm confused tbh.


I would not be surprised if there are deaths attributable to impaction in the wild.

However... part of the problem is that having a lot of loose sand in a vivarium does not closely replicate leopard geckos' home environment - they may be desert animals, but desert is not the same thing as "sand dune". Leopard geckos aren't built like sand dune lizards - but they are built like hardpan rock-crevice lizards. Having an inch or so of loose sand over the entire bottom of the cage is much more like a sand dune than like the natural concrete with sand drifted in the hollows that a leopard gecko would normally live on.

I don't swear by it. Swear AT it (and the companies that include it in their starter kits) for sure...


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## Faith

GRB said:


> One of my friends is considering using it. I think it's a difficult matter - there are countless people on both sides saying that they have had/have not had problems with it. I know some people swear by it.
> 
> It makes me wonder (with no real reptile expertise) how these animals survive in the wild - surely gut impaction must be relatively common in the wild? Or do they only eat substrate in captivity (poor diet)? I'm confused tbh.


Show them the pic in the thread and tell them thats what is likely to happen!
Tbh as ssthisto has said there is no way that they would have that much sand in the wild and although its likely some would die of impactation we wouldnt be able to monitor the numbers.
Leopard Gecko

^ just one of the many care sheets that recomend sand as well as on on our lovely friends website called the rspca also recomend sand


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## geckomad

what substrate or land type would suggest for leos then? i mean people think that lynos too plain, but it IS the safest possible thing for em, unless theyr elergic or something.... but ive heard something about a 1 cup of sand to 2 cups of soil thing....


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## Faith

geckomad said:


> what substrate or land type would suggest for leos then? i mean people think that lynos too plain, but it IS the safest possible thing for em, unless theyr elergic or something.... but ive heard something about a 1 cup of sand to 2 cups of soil thing....


A lot of people use the sand soil mix (we used to 1/2 a cup of sand 2 cups of top soil untreated) but as most of ours are in tubs or in the viv stack we only use kitchen roll at the moment 
If your talking about for a viv then why not try the wood flooring or some people have even used the grout ( tile grout) and then sealed it to make a rock like effect


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## Scales and Fangs

> Calcium Substrate
> Ideal substrate for keeping lizards, snakes and tortoises. If eaten by the pets, it is not only non-harmful but actually promotes bone growth. The calcium is of 100% organic origin. Available in two sizes and three colours.


The above has been cut and paste from a supplier of reptile and aquatic equipment, I ordered one lot of stuff from them (not the Calci Sand) and they now wonder why I dont buy their stuff anymore!!!


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## geckomad

i wonder if there's reptile soil.... lol. can you just get rocks, treat em, put em in one corner and then use the soil/sand mix? isnt there still a risk of impaction?


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## Faith

geckomad said:


> i wonder if there's reptile soil.... lol. can you just get rocks, treat em, put em in one corner and then use the soil/sand mix? isnt there still a risk of impaction?


There is a risk of impactation with any substrate.
There is a tortoise soil which is recomended for all kinds of reptiles,
But you could use rocks (as long as they are smooth not to sharp)
and then use un treated top soil can get it from B&Q about £2.99 a bag 
and if you are going to use sand use childs play sand. To mix with the soil


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## geckomad

yeah im trying to get ahold of a cheap but well made wooden viv first, so i can set up a proper home


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## geckomad

i thought of using sand, i had actually got it in the viv, but then everyone shouted at me  so i kind of put lino over the top of it. then i scrapped that idea and put my gecko in a tub. now im trying to get a proper viv.


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## Faith

geckomad said:


> i thought of using sand, i had actually got it in the viv, but then everyone shouted at me  so i kind of put lino over the top of it. then i scrapped that idea and put my gecko in a tub. now im trying to get a proper viv.


Tubs are fine for leos we keep ours in tubs  
as long as you have a heat mat on a stat under the tub your leo will be fine


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## Zak

Faith said:


> Show them the pic in the thread and tell them thats what is likely to happen!
> Tbh as ssthisto has said there is no way that they would have that much sand in the wild and although its likely some would die of impactation we wouldnt be able to monitor the numbers.
> Leopard Gecko
> 
> ^ just one of the many care sheets that recomend sand as well as on on our lovely friends website called the rspca also recomend sand


Hi im GRB's friend in question and yes im fully aware of the risk of impaction, ive read through numerous sources and posted a number of times on this forums about the substrate debate.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/84275-sand-substrate-real-rumour.html

I do agree that they're not sand dune geckos and live on a environment much more akin to hard rock but i would rather provide a more realistic environment with a mix of sand/rock etc than put a gecko on a paper towel. I agree paper towels are easy to clean but aestitically they're awful (selfish i know) but i also want animals to exhibit some natural behaviour through digging, routing through nooks and crannys etc.

Some people are truly against sand as a substrate but i think you'll be surprised by the number of people who do keep leo's on sand and have no problems. Just because you dont hear them on here saying its good doesnt mean people dont think it is the best substrate. In all honestly they're probably afraid to post because of flamming which does go on if someone says they use sand. 

However i no way am i saying there are NO problems associated with the use of sand but then there are potential problems associated with most things. If the gecko is watched whilst eating and attention paid to its behaviour then if the sand appears to be causing a problem then feeding can be done somewhere else etc. 

Now i prepare for the flamming.


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## geckomad

'pulls out flame thrower' xD

naw ive been to reptile shops all over the place and i see everyhing on sand. for example, the snake shop in sheffield keeps leos on sand and he says he hasnt had any trouble at all. its like the meallie myth, where they supposably burrow out of the stomach:shock: but thts a defo lie, its only coz the pets were old/ill and imported and died on em before they could digest the food. its a matter of choice isnt it, some people have kept leos on sand and kept them alive till they die of old age.people aught not to get flammed just coz there methods different. still against sand though :roll2:


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## Zak

geckomad said:


> people aught not to get flammed just coz there methods different. still against sand though :roll2:


Thankyou and your bang on its a matter of choice. If someone has researched a subject and makes a decision i cant see how its wrong, its just different to someone elses opinion. Fair enough for the people who have researched into sand and are against it, it cant stand the people who havent researched and just say it because it sounds ethical or the right thing to say.

BTW - im not keeping mine of sand, ive constructing a rock/slate flooring, which i may put sand in the small gaps inbetween the rocks.


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## GRB

Zak said:


> Thankyou and your bang on its a matter of choice. If someone has researched a subject and makes a decision i cant see how its wrong, its just different to someone elses opinion. Fair enough for the people who have researched into sand and are against it, it cant stand the people who havent researched and just say it because it sounds ethical or the right thing to say.
> 
> BTW - im not keeping mine of sand, ive constructing a rock/slate flooring, which i may put sand in the small gaps inbetween the rocks.


Hey Zak, sorry to use you in the third person as such, it was an interesting debate. have you sorted out your viv then? I'm intrigued to as to how it looks


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## Zak

Im currently in Huddersfield so havent even been home yet. Going back Sunday so will sort it out over that coming week. 

I guarentee the same debate will be on another thread in under a week.


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## GRB

Zak said:


> Im currently in Huddersfield so havent even been home yet. Going back Sunday so will sort it out over that coming week.
> 
> I guarentee the same debate will be on another thread in under a week.


Ah i see. And yes, calci sand will strike again. ive only been on here about a week and its come up about 3 times! :roll:


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## geckomad

yeah too true


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## Kekks

Hey just to note the first picture is caused by bark not sand! Im confused too tho?? I hav sand in with my dwarf sand geckos as that is what i was advised to get??


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## Ssthisto

If the geckos are adapted to living on sand (and if they're the teeny yellow ones then they are) then a sand substrate should not harm them.


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## AlanP

i never listen to the corporations who produce this sort of stuff because they tend to not actually care about the health and well being of animals as long as their making money their sweet, so i think its always great to check these forums because their full of experienced people.

to be honest this Calcium sand interested me when i read about it, any time i have used bark sooner or later i have discovered mites and have had to completely refresh the tank, so the whole anti mite thing caught my attention plus it says it can be broken down and actually provides calcium for creatures so im curious to all the bad things people have been saying about using sand, are they talking about usuing real rock sand or using this calcium stuff? i dont believe everything i read and im not prepared to just go out and try it just incase somthing does happen, this is a copy and paste from a website on calcium sand so it would be cool to hear you guys views.

"Komodo CaCO3 Dessert Terrain, 100% calcium carbonate sand harvested from selected sources around the world, the first choice for Bearded Dragons, Uromastyxs and Monitor lizards.
This sand enriches the environment by encouraging digging and burrowing. Tested safe and digestible when inadvertently consumed and helps reduce mite infestations"


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## cordylidae

tbh calcium sand cannot be blamed 100% for impaction that involves it 

for a start sand should only be used with an animal with a relatively good aim when hunting etc. that goes for pretty much all loose substrates not just this.

it is digestible in small amount but if you it is being ingested in large amount then it isn't the sands fault as the owner should either change from sand to tile etc. any other sand will also cause impaction if ingested in large amounts.

also many people say that due to it being calcium then it encourages it to be eaten however if you husbandry is correct then you rep shouldn't be looking for other sources of calcium and should have enough in its diet anyway.

obviously accidents happen and some unlucky reps may get impaction but it isn't anyone's fault as animals even with a good aim can ingest alot of substrate at once without the owner knowing but IF an animals is impacted the owner should realise that something is wrong at which point the animal should be taken to a proper rep vet. 

i dont personally use calcium sand or keep leo's but i wouldn't have much of an issue over using calcium sand.as it has been said leos dont live on sand anyway they live on hardpan so excavator clay is probably the closest to their natural habitat.


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## MrLizardBoi97

Leopard geckos are native to Afghanistan
Google Image Result for http://www.armytimes.com/xml/news/2008/03/army_afghanistan_deploy_031408w/031408_afghanistan_800.JPG

look at the floor it's not sand it's rock there is no sand in afghanistan


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## cordylidae

MrLizardBoi97 said:


> Leopard geckos are native to Afghanistan
> Google Image Result for http://www.armytimes.com/xml/news/2008/03/army_afghanistan_deploy_031408w/031408_afghanistan_800.JPG
> 
> look at the floor it's not sand it's rock there is no sand in afghanistan


there is sand its just not like a dune it is more of a sprinkling over the hardpan.excavator clay is quite similiar to hardpan which is why i suggested it


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