# Tank too big?



## bluejay64 (4 mo ago)

Conversation I'm having with a reptile resue
Am I wrong here? It's a 4x3x2ft (180 gal I think) for a corn snake, I know they will happily live in smaller but I though bigger was better so long as there are places to hide


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

they're wrong, completely. Especially for a Corn Snake!

As you suggest, Snakes like tight spaces to hide in if they need to, they like cover so they can move around their space unseen (leaf litter, plants, rocks, substrate) and they absolutely need a large enough space to properly stretch out and exercise of their own free will.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Snakes are wary of open space, not large space. People seem to not understand the difference. As long as they have plenty of cover it doesn't really matter the size of the vivarium. 

The more hides and cover you offer your animals (snakes or otherwise) the more you will see them as the safer they will feel. If they are always within a split second of a hiding place they will sit out more.


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

It's called "quality of life" and that person is completely wrong when they say "it is for you not them". 
If it was purely for me, I probably *would* have smaller vivs and more of them, so I could own more animals! However I decided right from the start to use 4 x 2 x 2 as a default size viv, apart from anything else it also makes a proper temperature gradient easier to setup. And I'm not a breeder so don't have space constraints, within reason. It just limits me to 5-6 animals max.

But even the smallest snakes actually love to go exploring and use their larger space, especially when they think nobody's watching. My little shoelace of a Rosy Boa was in his 4 x 2 x 2 from a few months old, gave him plenty of small hides, branches and cover, and at night he's always moving around checking it all out, never "freaked out" or refused to eat.

Interestingly, I know of at least one well-regarded shop that also deals with re-home and rescue, that insists on any adopter having a nice large home for the rescue animal, and proof of it before they will let them go.


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## bluejay64 (4 mo ago)

NickN said:


> It's called "quality of life" and that person is completely wrong when they say "it is for you not them".
> If it was purely for me, I probably *would* have smaller vivs and more of them, so I could own more animals! However I decided right from the start to use 4 x 2 x 2 as a default size viv, apart from anything else it also makes a proper temperature gradient easier to setup. And I'm not a breeder so don't have space constraints, within reason. It just limits me to 5-6 animals max.
> 
> But even the smallest snakes actually love to go exploring and use their larger space, especially when they think nobody's watching. My little shoelace of a Rosy Boa was in his 4 x 2 x 2 from a few months old, gave him plenty of small hides, branches and cover, and at night he's always moving around checking it all out, never "freaked out" or refused to eat.
> ...


Where is this place? I definitely want to go for somewhere with better standards, but I can't drive myself, and the only person happy to drive me doesn't want to go further than an hour


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

The one I mentioned is based in Sheffield, and have high standards for rehoming any of their own stock, however on their Facebook page (Snakes 'n Adders) they also have recently started, every Wednesday, to post links to other reptile rescues/sanctuaries looking to find homes for their animals, which might be worth looking into if you're not in that part of the UK.


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## bluejay64 (4 mo ago)

NickN said:


> The one I mentioned is based in Sheffield, and have high standards for rehoming any of their own stock, however on their Facebook page (Snakes 'n Adders) they also have recently started, every Wednesday, to post links to other reptile rescues/sanctuaries looking to find homes for their animals, which might be worth looking into if you're not in that part of the UK.


Thank you, I'll definitely look into that


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## Saladmander (12 mo ago)

What a trash garbage thing for a rescue to say, oof.
Refusing a snake to a viv like that makes so sense whatsoever.

Are they a dedicated rescue, or do they breed too, by chance?


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

The 'lack [of] legs' comment suggests that the person is kind of making this up as they go. There are certainly quality reptile rescues, but some (in the US, anyway) are apparently simply flippers that take in free animals.

When I sell a snake I produced, I tell the new owner what the snake was used to in terms of feeding, temps and enclosure. * If *the new owner has feeding issues that are related to the size/design/material of the enclosure (which happens maybe 5% of the time, but interestingly always with expo sales; online buyers seem much more adept at providing good care), I instruct them to replicate the conditions the snake was used to (yes, a small tub). Once the snake is feeding and acting normally, then enclosure size and design can be altered -- but having the baseline behavior stable is important.

So,* if* a snake (or other herp) has issues in a large enclosure that the snake didn't have in a small enclosure, it follows that _one way_ to address the issue is to house the snake in a smaller enclosure. But it isn't the case that a large enclosure will cause problems.

For what it is worth, growing out a lot of hatchlings/neonates of pretty diverse species over the years has been very instructive to me as to how various reptile species react to enclosure sizes. It is true that some specimens will in fact not adapt to a larger enclosure at a certain point in time -- I've experienced this too many times to explain it away. It is also true that some specimens seem to need upsizing earlier than others, based on their feeding and other behavior. A good keeper, I think, gets hints from the specimen at hand and makes modifications based on the animal's responses. Though there is a lot of animosity toward the practices of breeders (some appropriate, some not, and much misunderstood), having data where N=hundreds rather than N=single digits does have value.

My experiences, anyway, so grain of salt and all that.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Maybe you should message them back and point them to this forum..... they clearly need educating !!


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

That's appalling and so very wrong. Even more worrying is this is coming from a rescue centre 😡 
Yes, snakes generally like some snug hides, but they still like to roam and stretch out. I've found our corns to be pretty active and use every inch of space.


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## QWERTYOP (Apr 5, 2021)

“They live in tight environments… hence the lack of legs”. What? What does that even mean?! I would take zero further advice from such a person.


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## mooselee (Oct 8, 2007)




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## TheHouseofReptilez (Sep 26, 2021)

I've heard it all now.........


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