# Marmosets and Toucan's sold in pet shop



## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

I have read on another forum that a pet shop in manchester is selling marmosets and toucans (in horrific conditions). I am pretty sure most of you know this shop as i have seen it mentioned on here before now. I was wondering what the legislation surrounding this practice is. I know they are probably not DWA but does this mean that any pet shop can go to a dealer (albeit a pretty poor dealer) and sell these animals?

Maybe Nerys or Rory could shed some light on this as they know more about this stuff i would hazard a guess? 

The exotic pet trade is heading in very bad directions if this is allowed to happen!!


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> I have read on another forum that a pet shop in manchester is selling marmosets and toucans (in horrific conditions). I am pretty sure most of you know this shop as i have seen it mentioned on here before now. I was wondering what the legislation surrounding this practice is. I know they are probably not DWA but does this mean that any pet shop can go to a dealer (albeit a pretty poor dealer) and sell these animals?
> 
> Maybe Nerys or Rory could shed some light on this as they know more about this stuff i would hazard a guess?
> 
> The exotic pet trade is heading in very bad directions if this is allowed to happen!!


This is nothing new unfortunately. you'd need to complain to the Local EHO


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Moshpitviper said:


> This is nothing new unfortunately. you'd need to complain to the Local EHO


 
I am afraid l can add nothing new to this threads content either, except l agree with Dave.

If you feel that the conditions in which the animals are being sold contravenes the animal welfare act, then l strongly suggest that you either ring or visit the environmental health officer for the area and make your complaints known to them.

Trade in primates and exotic animals is going to the dogs at present, there is way too little enforcement done, but unless complaints are made, then there will continue to be no advancement in this direction.

In what way do you think the animals are not being housed properly?

Is it housing, diet, display?

This is what you must state, but have you voiced your concerns with the store in question? 

I dont know the store and am not asking on this thread, but is this the first time they have sold primates?

If they are deliberatly flouting animal welfare issues then you will have a case - however if it just compromises what your own personal opinions are then that will be a different matter altogether.

Regulations governing the sales of exotics within the pet trade need hammering down and at present are too all open for abuse for some species be these mammals or reptiles it makes for no difference.

The point is this however - be very sure about your complaint, because the pet store may not be breaking the guidelines that their very own council passes to them under the PSL.

Sorry as said, l can not be of any further assistance - if however you wish to pm me directly please feel free or alternately email me on [email protected] 

R
TSKA Exotics


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## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> I am afraid l can add nothing new to this threads content either, except l agree with Dave.
> 
> If you feel that the conditions in which the animals are being sold contravenes the animal welfare act, then l strongly suggest that you either ring or visit the environmental health officer for the area and make your complaints known to them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply! I haven't personally seen the shop but from reading what was written by someone who has it appears that 4 marmosets were being kept in one small parrot cage.

As i haven't personally seen the shop i couldn't possibly make a complaint but I was just wondering if this happens a lot as i have never heard/seen it before but by the sounds of it this shop is setting a very bad example of competent exotic animal keeping. 

Also, by the sounds of it, it is not just the exotic mammals and birds being kept badly. The reps (as i have heard on here before) and domestic mammals are also in very bad states (dirty, small enclosures, no enrichment, mixed species of snakes piled on top of each other etc).


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> does this mean that any pet shop can go to a dealer (albeit a pretty poor dealer) and sell these animals?


 
The answer is yes. IF the petshop has these species listed on its own individual pet shop licence, it can legally sell them.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Pouchie said:


> The answer is yes. IF the petshop has these species listed on its own individual pet shop licence, it can legally sell them.


As above, the shop has to be correctly licensed, and if it is licensed, but is not keeping the species in accordance with the licensing terms or the AWA it is the local council (licensing department) who can choose to remove the license altogether, or restrict the species that are sold. Unfortunately it is a bit like the postcode lottery - some councils are very strict, others simply are not as there is currently no UK wide pet shop licensing, only county by county... the animal welfare act applies across the whole of the UK though!


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## bobbydazzler75 (Feb 23, 2009)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> I have read on another forum that a pet shop in manchester is selling marmosets and toucans (in horrific conditions). I am pretty sure most of you know this shop as i have seen it mentioned on here before now. I was wondering what the legislation surrounding this practice is. I know they are probably not DWA but does this mean that any pet shop can go to a dealer (albeit a pretty poor dealer) and sell these animals?
> 
> Maybe Nerys or Rory could shed some light on this as they know more about this stuff i would hazard a guess?
> 
> The exotic pet trade is heading in very bad directions if this is allowed to happen!!


the toucans are not for sale.the toco is the shops mascot, he's on the staff badges and stuff.the manager said he was offered 5k for the toco and refused and the other one to him was priceless as its hand tame with a certificate.i wouldn't say they were in horrific conditions though, both are separately caged on the counter.


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## 17624 (May 1, 2008)

Which shop?Ive no problem with going through the legalities for the sake of the animals

Jpster


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

jpster said:


> Which shop?Ive no problem with going through the legalities for the sake of the animals
> 
> Jpster



You might not. But the forum does. Naming shops for such purposes are not allowed on here.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> Thanks for the reply! I haven't personally seen the shop but from reading what was written by someone who has it appears that 4 marmosets were being kept in one small parrot cage.
> 
> As i haven't personally seen the shop i couldn't possibly make a complaint but I was just wondering if this happens a lot as i have never heard/seen it before but by the sounds of it this shop is setting a very bad example of competent exotic animal keeping.
> 
> Also, by the sounds of it, it is not just the exotic mammals and birds being kept badly. The reps (as i have heard on here before) and domestic mammals are also in very bad states (dirty, small enclosures, no enrichment, mixed species of snakes piled on top of each other etc).


Hearsay then. YOU go have a look THEN report back.

(not defending the shop - just fed up with 'a mates mate said... type posts.)


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## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

Caz said:


> Hearsay then. YOU go have a look THEN report back.
> 
> (not defending the shop - just fed up with 'a mates mate said... type posts.)


If you read MY original post I think you'll find that I asked about legislation of pet shops and exotic mammals which was the purpose of the thread. I don't need to go into the shop to know its awful as i have heard a LOT about it on this forum and others.

My intent wasn't to make a complaint, simply to ask about legislation. 

Is that ok with YOU?!


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## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

If this shop has both Marmosets and Toucans then I know which shop it is, we went in there about a year ago and found it to be very cramped in there, with a lot of animals mixed in together which shouldnt be. I cant really comment on any recent activities though as I havent been in there for a while. Will go in and check it out soon.


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

Which shop is it out of interest? (I know it cant be posted here, PM maybe?)
Im going to mankychester saturday so if its near I could have a look if you want? Could be a bit fairer on the shop to see whether they've improved at all rather than people thinking theyre poop non stop : victory: Ive been to some shocking pet shops in my time but miracles do happen and sometimes they improve :lol2:


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## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

the pet shop in discussion has not improved in years, people keep complaining, nothing gets done, i reported a shop myself, not this one, but another and they cleaned it all up in time for the inspection, so nothig was done, i havent been back since, im due a visit. But the one this thread is on about, is cramped, and they do mix species which shouldnt be mixed, but there are alot worse shops around. They usually sell most of the animals quickly in my experience, so species are not mixed for a very long time, not condoning it though!

Elisha


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## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

sent you a pm spider_duck!


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

Cool, been sent the same name by two different people so I know which shop it is now  Will pop down on saturday and have a look. Maybe if enough people report them they'll do something about it. 

Where I used to live there was an appaling shop, they frequently had dead animals in vivs, no food or water, sometimes no heating even! They kept their T's in a cupboard with very little ventilation, on vermiculite with no hides or water. I remember once they had a 2 1/2ft nile monitor in a 2ft viv! The poor bugger was sat with his tail curled around himself 

The mammals were no different, rabbits and guinea pigs housed together in tiny, overrun enclosures with no food or water...I once bought a kitten from them because she was housed in a 3tier hamster cage! Needless to say she died-she was very very young and had half a heart 

It took me 13 goes at reporting them before the council even inspected them. They're still open


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

GO SAM, GO SAM, GO SAM :2thumb:


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> GO SAM, GO SAM, GO SAM :2thumb:


To the crusades!!!!!!!!!!! :lol2:


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## elliottreed (Jan 9, 2008)

A shop near us had a toucan for sale a few years ago
Lets just say they couldn't care for the rodents and budgies they stocked let alone the toucan, such a shame.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> If you read MY original post I think you'll find that I asked about legislation of pet shops and exotic mammals which was the purpose of the thread. I don't need to go into the shop to know its awful as i have heard a LOT about it on this forum and others.
> 
> My intent wasn't to make a complaint, simply to ask about legislation.
> 
> Is that ok with YOU?!


I did, and you're worrying about legislation based on other peoples hearsay.


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

bobbydazzler75 said:


> the toucans are not for sale.the toco is the shops mascot, he's on the staff badges and stuff.the manager said he was offered 5k for the toco and refused and the other one to him was priceless as its hand tame with a certificate.i wouldn't say they were in horrific conditions though, both are separately caged on the counter.


Its a shop,most if not all things will be for sale.

John.


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

Mephitis said:


> Its a shop,most if not all things will be for sale.
> 
> John.


 aye but she was just saying the toucans are the shops mascot. Lots of shops have them, I know of one who have meerkats :mf_dribble:


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