# Heres a tough one for al you royal keepers..



## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

Well i tihnk its tough i have a rough idea of what might come of the pair but im not sure..


What would you get if you bred a 66%het pied normal royal WITH

a lemon pastel 100%het pied..?


would it be half the clutch being pastel and half the clutch being pied (if ya really lucky n the 66% turns out to be 100%?) or what if the 66% turns out NOT to be 100% het?


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## amanda75 (May 23, 2006)

ok... firstly, i just want to make sure you're not confused about what the 66% means. Something either is het or it's not, there is no such thing as 'slightly het'. The percentage comes about because when breeding non-visual parents of a recessive morph some offspring will get them and some won't - it's impossible to tell which of a clutch has them until they're test bred. 

if two het animals are bred together, each of the young will have one of four possible outcomes... ('special' = insert name of relevant recessive morph!)

gets mum's normal gene and dad's normal gene - is normal
gets mum's normal gene and dad's special gene - is het, looks normal
gets mum's special gene and dad's normal gene - is het, looks normal
gets mum's special gene and dad's special gene - is special

so of those possibilities, three look normal, but 2 out of the 3 (66%) are actually het.... which is why yours has a 66% chance of being het.

obviously though, just because egg number one came out with possiblity number one, that option isn't removed for the following eggs, so the above numbers are statistical probablilites, not definite and certain clutch results.... 

right.... *breathes*.... your pair....

pastel is co-dom, so half the offspring will be pastel, and half normal

the pied part though depends on whether your 66% turns out in your favour or not.... 

if not, then you end up with all offspring looking normal but half of them inheriting a copy of the gene from the het parent... so the clutch would be -

1/2 pastel 50% poss het pied
1/2 normal 50% poss het pied


if you get lucky, and it turns out they both are het then the clutch would be (i think, although my brain's starting to hurt lol)

1/4 pastel het pied
1/4 normal het pied
1/8 pied pastel 
1/8 pastel
1/8 pied
1/8 normal

which (as you can't tell which are the het pied and which aren't) simplifies down to 

3/8 pastel 66% poss het pied
3/8 normal 66% poss het pied 
1/8 pied
1/8 pied pastel

the thing is, with the small clutch sizes of royals, there's no guarantee of getting a visual pied in your first clutch to prove whether the 66% is or isn't het.... might take a while...


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## xmashx (Sep 14, 2007)

sounds about right from what ive been reading on the net and ur brain must be hurting like hell. mine was and i was just reading. 
xsachax


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## amanda75 (May 23, 2006)

lol.... biggest prob is that atm i'm trying to type with a broken right wrist, on a keyboard where most of the letters have worn off..... keep forgetting where a sentence is heading before i've managed to type the third word of it :?


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

There are two outcomes basically. 

If the 66% het, IS het then 

1)-50% are pastle 
- 25% are pied 
(they may overlap)

And if the 66% ISNt het then 
2)50% normal
50% pastlel

And put in simple terms means that heis het, or he isnt. 66% means the chances of him being het are 2:1


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

great your all stars lol

Thanks for your help!!: victory:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

The only thing I can add to this discussion is that if you get 17 babies from a het pied x 66% probability het pied mating, and none of the babies are pied, then the odds are 99% that the 66% probability het pied is actually a normal rather than a het pied.


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

paulh said:


> The only thing I can add to this discussion is that if you get 17 babies from a het pied x 66% probability het pied mating, and none of the babies are pied, then the odds are 99% that the 66% probability het pied is actually a normal rather than a het pied.


also that if you get 17 babies then it probably isnt a royal anyway


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

Tops said:


> also that if you get 17 babies then it probably isnt a royal anyway



lol at that comment..about how many eggs would be expected then? i cant actually remember? 8?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Between 4 and 8 IIRC.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

On the other hand, the odds are 2/3 that a het pied x het pied mating will have at least one pied in a four egg clutch. Luck is a factor.


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

amanda75 said:


> ok... firstly, i just want to make sure you're not confused about what the 66% means. Something either is het or it's not, there is no such thing as 'slightly het'. The percentage comes about because when breeding non-visual parents of a recessive morph some offspring will get them and some won't - it's impossible to tell which of a clutch has them until they're test bred.
> 
> if two het animals are bred together, each of the young will have one of four possible outcomes... ('special' = insert name of relevant recessive morph!)
> 
> ...


 
Time like these when i wish the rep system still existed :2thumb:


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

ok hmm well the pied idea is no longer but still not to worry! Thanks for your help though,

Much appreciated!!: victory:


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