# Marine tank proposal



## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I've been debating a marine tank for a while, and I've decided to do a 2 stage approach. Start with a smaller simpler tank with easier fish to get used to marine, and later on go all out on something much bigger. I'm running out of room for more tanks at home anyway!

The plan: Probably the Kent Marine 94L all in one kit, which has built in filtration and skimmer. I've heard of some people removing the bio-filtration to prevent nitrate buildup, should I do the same? I don't have any plans to go into coral for this tank. Maybe I'd look at a few "easy" ones if it looks too boring. For now, assume FOWLR.

I'd probably get around 10kg of live rock. Stocking I'm thinking of:
2 clowfish (+anemone)
1 royal grammar
1 firefish
a bunch of hermit crabs and turbo snails
I might consider others if it doesn't overstock the tank. Or if I'm already in danger of overstocking I'd ditch the firefish.

Since I'm not going coral, I was wondering about using some seaweed although I've not looked in depth into this yet.

I've got a refractometer and some marine salt already. Need to double check if my existing water test kits are marine compatible or if I need a new one. Anything else?...

Oh, I know ultimatereef are mentioned quite a lot. I did sign up on there but the feel I got was that it's a bit too big. A noob would get lost in the noise. did learn many things I've not seen elsewhere from random reading around though


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

One weekend later, I have this.

Fluval 136L all in one. Think it is quite new as didn't see it in store previously. Lot nicer looking, and they did various sizes and this is the biggest one.

All in one kit like the Kent I was looking at before. Comes with skimmer and a compartment in the back to hide stuff (not done yet while I prepare).

Currently got 16kg of live rock in and letting it settle. It has been moved around since the photo, and no doubt will be moved around some more later.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

Take your time with it don't put in any filter media as it will conflict with the live rock.

Let the live rock do its thing and its the best filtration you will have combined with the skimmer. To start that is all you will need. If you going to look at anything else research carbon and phosphate remover. You won't need these yet really. Unless you have high readings of phosphate.

Use a good quality source of ro water and you should need to worry to much yet.

When stocking let the tank tell you what it can handle through the parameter readings.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

I can't see a powerhead in there if I was you I would add one the flow create the filtration through pushing the water through and around the live rock. Good flow is essential. 

You will want at least 4 to 5 times turn over of the display tanks capacity. Again depending on hoe the tank get stocked rocks and coral you may want to up this as time goes on.

Flow also will keep waste suspended in the water colomn trasporring it through to the skimmer to get removed.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

The circulation pump was at the back right corner when that photo was taken. I'm still deciding on the optimal place to put it, but it is higher up now. Rated at 2800lph which is over 20x tank volume.

The Fluval kit doesn't include biomedia which the Kent kit does. All kit I have in there are the skimmer, heater, return and circulation pumps.

The back of the tank has 4 compartments. One is taken up by the skimmer, one by the drain valve and return pump. So I have two compartments for future expansion.

RO water is home made. Early batches, even after flushing according to instructions, were coming out with a TDS around 15 or so. It has since reduced to <10, sometimes as low as 5. I don't have a DI unit on it.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

That tdi readig is on the high side for me. It could lead you to algae growth. You could try bolt on di unit you can pick them up on the bay cheap.

That's is good with the turn over you want a unsettled water flow to stir up waste. Try half way down pointing up at the surface as a starting point. 

Use the return pump for surface movement for good oxygen exchange and keep an eye for settling waste in the rocks and sand bed and adjust the powerhead as required.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

Don't worry to much about bio media at this point shops will tell you to add so many different things.

Leave it alone, basic is best with marines and by basic I mean basic to the stock you got.

This way you can always set the base of the biotope before you add anything, that is not required and causes problems over anything else.

Basic is

Correct quantity of live rock
Good flow
Regular water chages with good quality salt
Best skimmer you can afford

Salt I would recommend red sea, h2o, or tmc. They all have different types depending on stock from fish only to coral reefs. Red sea and h20 are around the same good quality but when switched to tmc I have to say this is superior by far although is more expensive.

I will say spend as much as you can on salt especially when stocking corals as this really help the tank and reduce the need for additives saving you money on the long run.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I just fitted a DI unit yesterday, although haven't run it in yet. Had a bit of trouble with leaking but think it is sorted and will give it a longer run after some other tank work today.

Picked up some coral sand to go in tank shortly.

Question on cycling: I've tested daily since the live rock went in last Sunday. Ammonia 0. Nitrite 0. Nitrate 2ppm possibly rising but still less than the next step of 5ppm on colour chart. Is it "done"? A worker at the LFS I got the kit from also started a marine a day before me, and said it took a few days before he saw a spike. But I'm past "a few days"...

I still need to fine tune the salinity anyway. With my RO calibrated refractometer it's about 30ppt which took about 4.4kg of Red Sea Pro salt. Only just saw that errors may creep in unless calibrated closer to the reading point, but not looked further into that yet. Is SG the more popular measure? I find the ppt reading easier to see. Anyway, I intend to bump it up a little more after I get the sand in and re-adjusted the water level.

There may be some (unwanted) algae growing. If it was freshwater I'd say it could be cyanobacteria and hair. Only tiny patches first appearing a few days ago and doesn't seem to be getting any worse since.

Phosphate I'm about to test with a salifert kit I just picked up. Previous attempt with JBL test suggested 0.25ppm but I suspect the kit is out of date and thus unreliable. I also have the API one but find that is unreadable <1ppm for freshwater. Haven't tried it on saltwater yet but I'm not optimistic!


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

GlassWalker said:


> Phosphate I'm about to test with a salifert kit I just picked up. Previous attempt with JBL test suggested 0.25ppm but I suspect the kit is out of date and thus unreliable. I also have the API one but find that is unreadable <1ppm for freshwater. Haven't tried it on saltwater yet but I'm not optimistic!


If you're keeping corals, don't bother with any test kit other than the Elos phosphate high sensitivity test kit. Ideally wanting Phosphate under 0.03, and most of the other test kits don't even measure down to that! That one goes down to 0.008.

Edit:


GlassWalker said:


> I still need to fine tune the salinity anyway. With my RO calibrated refractometer it's about 30ppt which took about 4.4kg of Red Sea Pro salt. Only just saw that errors may creep in unless calibrated closer to the reading point, but not looked further into that yet. Is SG the more popular measure? I find the ppt reading easier to see. Anyway, I intend to bump it up a little more after I get the sand in and re-adjusted the water level.


Yeh SG tends to be how the majority measure  But really either/or is fine. Also, on a technicality, a refractometer "calibrated" with RO is actually just "zero'd", you can buy calibration fluid of 1.025 / 35ppt etc from various companies/ebay which will truely calibrate a refractometer. Obviously if there's a slight inaccuracy in the refractometer, it may read 1.000 at 1.000, but may read 1.023 at 1.026 or whatever


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Just put the coral sand in... wonder if I have too much, or just need to push more of it round the back as it is looking a bit thick. Up to 3cm thick, possibly less if I spread it round the back a bit more evenly. And even though I washed it, I've got lovely cloudy water.

Any tips for cleaning salt water marks off the outside of the glass? I wipe spills immediately but salt water smears a lot worse than my freshwater tanks do. Would wiping with a clean cloth soaked in RO water do?

The slifert phosphate kit does have a step at 0.03, which I think is my reading. Even shadows of light from the container were enough to confuse me and it is a pain to read... while previously I had no plans to try corals, I think I have been around them enough to want to try some easy ones... and who knows where that might lead!

My refractometer is the cheap one you see sold everywhere. It only has a single calibration adjustment. So the argument goes, any slope error could result in big offsets if the calibrated point is far from the intended operating point. For now the only reference I have is RO water. Could I make my own reference salt solution to calibrate it at a higher SG? I guess the hard part is being sure the calibration fluid is a specific level itself.


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## SmexyHerps (Dec 14, 2012)

Why did you wash the coral sand  You buy it so it has the bacteria but if you washed it- now its all gone :/ Did you wash it with salt water?


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

It wasn't live sand. Was dry stuff in a bag, which instructs you to wash away the fine debris. And there was a LOT of that. First rinse produced quite a scum on the water surface.

I also had a look at the live sand in the store, but it's £30 a big bag. The inert stuff I got should get populated over time anyway right?

I've pushed the sand around a bit more now, getting closer to 2cm thickness all round. This is about 7.5kg in an area of 90x30cm, less a bit for whatever the rock covers.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

GlassWalker said:


> Any tips for cleaning salt water marks off the outside of the glass? I wipe spills immediately but salt water smears a lot worse than my freshwater tanks do. Would wiping with a clean cloth soaked in RO water do?


Glass cleaning spray - just spray it onto the tissue first. Otherwise yes, RO water, clean the glass, then clean with a dry clean towel afterwards - but glass cleaner is easier :lol2:



GlassWalker said:


> The slifert phosphate kit does have a step at 0.03, which I think is my reading. Even shadows of light from the container were enough to confuse me and it is a pain to read... while previously I had no plans to try corals, I think I have been around them enough to want to try some easy ones... and who knows where that might lead!



If it's just FOWLR, don't worry. IF you're wanting to reduce algae or keeping corals which want lower phos, definitely get a different test. It's honestly pointless. Salifert are brilliant for other stuff though.



GlassWalker said:


> My refractometer is the cheap one you see sold everywhere. It only has a single calibration adjustment. So the argument goes, any slope error could result in big offsets if the calibrated point is far from the intended operating point. For now the only reference I have is RO water. Could I make my own reference salt solution to calibrate it at a higher SG? I guess the hard part is being sure the calibration fluid is a specific level itself.



I (used to) zero, I don't calibrate. But once I get my next tank up and running I'm going to buy some calibration fluid - it's honestly really cheap. £8 here.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheap is relative  Compared to the rest of the kit it might be... think I'm on around £900 so far and apart from the pet rocks, I did see a live snail once and today something looking like a mini shrimp (some 3mm long?) ran across a rock before I put the sand in.

Once I found some food I guess I might have to poke around that site for anything else I might need in the near future.

As said, originally I started off thinking FOWLR but without having even got any fish yet, the idea of corals are starting to grow on me. What swung it was a display in a LFS. It looks ok with white light, which is all I had seen up to that point. It was something else when the blue light was put on. Yes, I'm easily attracted to glowy things.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

GlassWalker said:


> Cheap is relative  Compared to the rest of the kit it might be... think I'm on around £900 so far and apart from the pet rocks, I did see a live snail once and today something looking like a mini shrimp (some 3mm long?) ran across a rock before I put the sand in.


Lol... definitely a good idea to stop counting! Otherwise it might be depressing very quickly... "_That's a nice coral.... .....£180_".... etc. Was the shrimp a generic amphipod? 



GlassWalker said:


> As said, originally I started off thinking FOWLR but without having even got any fish yet, the idea of corals are starting to grow on me. What swung it was a display in a LFS. It looks ok with white light, which is all I had seen up to that point. It was something else when the blue light was put on. Yes, I'm easily attracted to glowy things.


Lighting is such a massive topic... can get very complicated... metal halides, T5s, LEDs, combinations... waiting for me to move house, and then get another tank, I have an 8 tube 2ft T5 unit made by ATI


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## SmexyHerps (Dec 14, 2012)

GlassWalker said:


> It wasn't live sand. Was dry stuff in a bag, which instructs you to wash away the fine debris. And there was a LOT of that. First rinse produced quite a scum on the water surface.
> 
> I also had a look at the live sand in the store, but it's £30 a big bag. The inert stuff I got should get populated over time anyway right?
> 
> I've pushed the sand around a bit more now, getting closer to 2cm thickness all round. This is about 7.5kg in an area of 90x30cm, less a bit for whatever the rock covers.


Phew , I heard that livesand is a complete waste of time anyway:whip:After I spent £40 to cover the bottom of my tank :blush:


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

The lights came with the tank are Hagen/Fluvals' LED system... 

Shrimp like thing, no idea what it is/was. It ran off before I could do much about it. Hope it isn't upset with the still cloudy water from adding the sand.

Live sand... if I understand correctly the live rock can do the heavy lifting anyway. If more bacteria later grow on sand that's a bonus.

We all make noob mistakes I think... with hindsight some of the rocks I picked up as live rock may not be ideal either. I like them for their shape so they may be better considered as expensive decoration rock than live rock.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about phosphate reading art this point. You will chasing to many things at once.

Concentrate on maintaing the stability of you salinity before anything else. You should do this over a weekly basis first. Replace evaperated water with plain fresh to. When you have z patteren or auto top up that see's your salinity at 1.026 dog. Then and only then move onto your other parameters such as phosphate.

As for the algae growth and the age of the tank I would say your tank is still cycling. 

Until you have the basis set up don't look to fix anything else. You need to find the cause to fix a problem not use something to take it out. Your tank will be more stable and your pocket won't be as empty.

It is alaways handy to get readings on your tap water, then your ro water and also your freshly mixed salt water. This way you can see where parameters could be rising. Then you can deal with it.

Over feeding and stocking can be an issue also.

Your cycle should take around 2 to 4 weeks depending on the quality of your live rock. There is no rule to this tho each tank is different as you are creating a little world remember.

A sand bed is a beneficial place for organisms to live and breed and when kept well in a good system, provides beneficial filtration. If unmaintained either by hand or the correct organisms can create nitrate problems.

Remember this hobby you are keeping the water not the stock. If you keep the water well the stock provide no problem.

You need to concentrate on getting your water to the correct spg 1.026 and as stable as possible. Let the tank cycle naturally then you can start ro look at other things. Don't add anything at this time just let it do its thing. You will only confuse your self. 

As fish have their requirements and there three families of corals soft, large polyp stoney (LPS) and small poylp stoney (SPS) all needing thier own requirements.

In prepetation if you do want to go into corals I would do some research starting with soft corals as this is where you should start.

Please concentrate on where you are with the tank and research anything else. You will learn the basics then and progress with your tank alot faster. As if you jump to far ahead in this hobby it won't end well.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

On basics I still haven't found a good answer to something I already asked: what are the signs of a completed cycle? There is no ammonia or nitrite than I can detect. Guides I've seen usually say wait for the ammonia and nitrite spike to go away... well, I never saw one.

Low levels of nitrate which I can't be sure if it came from the early RO water (no DI stage) or produced in tank. Think my tap is about 33ppm nitrate according to water company. If the RO system is 95% effective, that's just under 2ppm nitrate, so in the right ball park. Similarly tap phosphates I've previously measured to be in single digit ppm from memory, but that was more variable than nitrates. After RO (without DI) that is still a potentially significant level here.

Salinity seems stable so far, as far as my eyes can tell anyway. Tank has been filled for almost a week now and it might have gone up 1ppt. I need to get used to the SG values next...


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

You can tell if you cycle is done by the condition of the tank and the parameters.

Your parameters should be stable over a period of a week.

The tank should be clean with no real algae growth.

What you need to remember is that algae growing strips the water of nutrients, etc so can give you false readings.

put some pictures up and your readings if you don't mind.

Nitrate
Nitrite
Amonia
And phosphate if you can.

As for salinity you can take the readings as what's best to for people use both. Its just I am more familiar with spg.

Its more important that you keep the level stable. As with evaporation all your levels change and if to dramatic can be fatal to fish, organisms and more importantly corals.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

To get salt marks off the outside of a tank use white vinegar at about 10% with water, you can bump it up if it's not cutting through. You can use newspaper to buff it up rather than a cloth and risk fluff on tank. Beware though, the smell will almost certainly make you want some fish and chips!!!

I always prefer refractometers and ppt over a hydrometer and s.g, more accurate and less effected by temperature.

3cm of sand is fine, will give the crabs/snails something to dig in.

A word on salt, I'd had good results with SeaChem, just my two cents worth.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Overview of tank as it currently stands. I added some shells for decoration this morning, ready for future hermits.









My first tentacle monster. Erm... what is it?









Yellow/brown stuff growing. Also some green.









More of the green, as well as some purple.









Blue-green stuff. Cyano?









Different patch of green stuff.

Main water stats have been consistent tested daily for the last week, since the tank was set up. Ammonio 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 2ppm possibly going up but less than next step of 5ppm. Phosphate yesterday possibly 0.03 but it's another one of those impossible to read eye tests. pH seems stable at 8.2. Salinity I've still not done the final adjustment yet, as I want to get a decent calibration of my refractometer first. For now it is showing about 30-31ppt.

Since I put in the coral sand, there's been a layer of stuff on the surface of the water. The skimmer seems to be picking up a little of it or similar (possibly same in suspension) but not much.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

With out being rude the layer on the top will be where you haven't cleaned the water enough fella.

Clean it off if I was use.

The tank is very clean but you are getting a bit of algae growing and if your phosphate is that low, then chances ate you are still in a cycle.

So if I am reading things write the tank has been running with salt water and the live rock for a week.

I would let the tank go another week then monitor it for a week. In the time between get your salinity right and to the reading you are comfortable with.

You may start to see a red brown algae appear in the next week. Technically its not an algae that will indicate you nutrient level is a little and in a cycle. Don't worry to much as it will burn itself out by consuming the nutrients. It doesn't always appear.

Keep an eye on the current algae and if it grows or dies of will be another indicator to keep an eye on. That will always give you a more acurate reading of what's going on in your tank. 

Over readings as if they grow you need to adjust nutrient export ot lighting.

What is your lighting cycle.

I noticed you have what looks like coral skeletons I the tank also. May I ask where you for your live rock was it from a shop or person.

The spider looking thing you have shown is a apatasia men. They see a nightmare and will spread throughout tank.

You will want to kill them off asap mate.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

+1 on the aptasia - kill it!


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Not cleaned water enough? I assume that meant sand... still, I'm where I am now, and am wondering how best to clean it.

Rock was from MA. The dead coral bits caught my attention while I was there.

Aiptasia - so far I've seen suggestions of peppermint shrimp and lemon juice injection. Not seen references to just pulling it out so I presume that's not a good idea? This thing is starting to remind me of freshwater hydra...

I've got reference solution on order to calibrate my refractometer. Until then I'll hold off on further adjustment on theory it is easier to add than remove, which I guess would be more like a water change.

Also done my first big batch of RO since adding DI. Uncalibrated TDS now reading 2.

Red/brown algae that isn't algae, would that be diatoms?


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

GlassWalker said:


> Aiptasia - so far I've seen suggestions of peppermint shrimp and lemon juice injection. Not seen references to just pulling it out so I presume that's not a good idea? This thing is starting to remind me of freshwater hydra...


Yeh  My favourite method was making a saturated salt solution (normal reef salt), and jam it into their mouth's, and/or pour it all over them if they shrivel, kills them pretty quick. 

Might end up with one of these monsters if you don't do it quick!


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Ok, needles shortly to be ordered off ebay.


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## Cockings (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah its as result of the dust in the sand you added not being washed of and now its settled the top of the water.

There is a load of ways of killing aips I have also found a very concentrated mix of salt water or kalk water the best way.

Don't attempt to cut or oil it off the dock as for a thing that gets lost will grow into another.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I did wash it, guess not quite enough...

And those things are really reminding me of hydra now... can't remember how I got rid of those either.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Researching aiptasia it does seem like a quest of who can find the most interesting way to kill them... most interesting one I've seen so far is to electrocute them!

On the salt method, I haven't found much on that. Do you just inject saturated solution into them? Or cover them with salt?

I've just ordered aiptasia X as that sounds like it actually works without too much fuss. Should arrive tomorrow so will likely try that in preference to other home brew methods for now. To keep in reserve, I picked up a blunt needle for a syringe as a spare from work and the sharp ones have apparently been shipped.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

GlassWalker said:


> Researching aiptasia it does seem like a quest of who can find the most interesting way to kill them... most interesting one I've seen so far is to electrocute them!


Check out this! Lol.



GlassWalker said:


> On the salt method, I haven't found much on that. Do you just inject saturated solution into them? Or cover them with salt?


Both  Jam it into the mouth, squirt salt, carry on when they shrivel. They die in an hour or so. And it's only salt, so nothing toxic going into the tank. 



GlassWalker said:


> I've just ordered aiptasia X as that sounds like it actually works without too much fuss. Should arrive tomorrow so will likely try that in preference to other home brew methods for now. To keep in reserve, I picked up a blunt needle for a syringe as a spare from work and the sharp ones have apparently been shipped.


Heard a couple of dubious things about aptasia x. Never used it personally, some people do have some complaints.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

GlassWalker, beware with Aptasia, I saw you said you'd bought needles on eBay. If you can avoid injuring the little b*****ds until you're ready to kill them. If they sense the're in danger they'll spew out spores to multiply. Use the syringe itself without the needle attached and inject your chosen method into the center of the oral disk, don't be shy with it, keep squirting until the thing retracts as far as it can go. I've personally used boiling water, saturated salt solution and also saturated Kalkwasse solution all to great effect.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Hmm... laser 

I don't have to really worry about the rest of the tank so much since there's no intentional stock in it yet. I'd probably go CUC, fish, then coral so there's loads of time to get things sorted between now and corals going in.

Aiptasia X still sounds good in that respect. As I understand it, applied correctly it will be treated as food and eaten, sealing and killing it before it releases spores or whatever the correct term is. Reading around, the trick to use it successfully seems to be applying it at the right quantity and rate not to trigger a defence response.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Cockings said:


> You may start to see a red brown algae appear in the next week. Technically its not an algae that will indicate you nutrient level is a little and in a cycle. Don't worry to much as it will burn itself out by consuming the nutrients. It doesn't always appear.


Tonight I thought things looked a bit different. It took a while but the highest bits closest to the light are going a yellow/brown. Again, I presume it could be diatoms or similar. Could this be the red/brown stuff you're thinking ok?


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Have now applied Aiptasia-X. Packaging says bottle is 60ml, and there's 100 doses. So, 0.6ml is one dose right? Since it was my first, I loaded a little extra into the syringe and applied it as instructed. Sure enough the tentacles reached for it as I approached, and I covered its mouth area with ease. I still had most of the contents in the syringe. Oh well, might as well cover it, just to be safe. Covered quite a bit in the end! A few times it seemed to shock back, which I guess is the implosion mentioned in the instructions.

What else is there?... While applying the above, I had to turn off all water moving devices. So the tank water was still for the first time since I filled it. I found it interesting the number of bubbles produced. I assume that's oxygen given off by the algae? Bubbles everywhere... The yellow/brown coating seems richer than yesterday. No obvious change to the green algae.

I've also spotted another interesting... thing. On many rocks there are what look like tubes sticking out. On one rock, I noticed a couple of the tubes sometimes stick out a single thread, like a bit of fishing line up to about 5cm long. It moves around a bit on the surface before retracting into the tube. Any idea what that one is?

Water tests still not changing much. Possibly another little increase in nitrates but still below 5ppm.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

The little tube things are probably a worm, the fine lines are the tentacles looking for something to eat......don't worry its on the lookout for detritus, not a fish. The tube on the rock is probably the home it's made itself.

That's the wonderful thing about getting live rock, all sorts of weird stuff comes out. All well and good until you get a mantis shrimp in there. Beautiful but deadly.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I really like the idea of mantis shrimp... but not for a main community perhaps!

The surface dust from the sand seems to have sorted itself out now. Most of it ended up in the skimmer.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

Mantis shrimp are epic, I would love to have one but there's horror stories of them cracking tanks within tanks within tanks, over 18mm of glass!! They're viscous little bastards so definitely species only.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Fargle said:


> Mantis shrimp are epic, I would love to have one but there's horror stories of them cracking tanks within tanks within tanks, over 18mm of glass!! They're viscous little bastards so definitely species only.


Agreed! Or acrylic tank 

On one of my old marine tanks a few years back I had always heard a clicking noise at night time, but never found the noise. Not _that_ loud though. When I dismantled I found a small pistol shrimp in there, something a bit like this










Was really cute!

And also found a ~1 foot long eunice worm in there! :gasp: Couldn't believe it, had never seen it out before anywhere.... That got killed.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Today I got crabs and snails...



















Here's some quick shots of one of the hermits. The snails were less photogenic.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Looks like diatoms have gone now. Got hairy green stuff growing on the glass, as well as lots of white specks.



















Next level of evolution achieved. Believe these are copepods. With eggs. Also saw some snail like things of comparable size.


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