# Shop shame!!!!



## lennon (Oct 3, 2008)

I am absolutly disgusted, walked into a place in Perth yestorday to see reptiles in need of desperate care and attention. Bearded dragons had MBD, no uv in any of there vivs everything that was the same sp and different sex was paired up to breed??regardless of there health.

young bearded dragons in flat tubs that you keep hatchling snakes in with nothing but tissue! 

To be honest the place is a mess, two guys in there who knew nothing to be able to sell these to people? one guy said to my partner " so you keep milksnakes? which ones? the banded ones?".He was also being quite racist towards English...

they had frogs which they never knew what they are , which were 3 adult whites in a tiny dried out tank...

A resqued snow corn snake that they refused to sell because they presumed she was gravid?

A sinaloan that they also wouldt sell ?

Oh and NO LICENCE TO BE SELLING ANY OF THESE REPTILES!!!!they openly told us that and mumbled some other crap?

They also had reptiles dying in these vivs on display which they also happily told us ...


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## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

Have you had a read of this thread? http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/general-herp-chat/45436-when-reptile-shops-go-bad.html

Though if you believe they are operating without a pet shop licence, I would be inclined to call the council and enquire whether they have issued one to that particular address : victory: If so, then you can voice your concerns about the keeping conditions.

Good luck!


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

If the shop hasn't a licence then they shouldn't be able to sell animals (or is that just me!?!)

As for the state of the poor animals, surely a call to RSPCA or council needs to be done & the cruelty looked into?


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## gregmonsta (Dec 3, 2007)

Well .... what can I say .... they are still a fledgling shop .... they have permission to sell their own captive bred animals but are not yet allowed to trade or sell outside sourced animals .... the majority of animals there at the moment are indeed rescues .... therefore their condition is not 100% to blame on the shop ... the shop is still a mess but this is partially down to a previous dispute with a partner who pretty much abandoned the business leaving the current manager to pick up the pieces ... it sounds like the manager wasn't available at the time but I do think you should speak to her first and foremost .... I will PM you her contact details.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

gregmonsta said:


> Well .... what can I say .... they are still a fledgling shop .... they have permission to sell their own captive bred animals but are not yet allowed to trade or sell outside sourced animals .... the majority of animals there at the moment are indeed rescues .... therefore their condition is not 100% to blame on the shop ... the shop is still a mess but this is partially down to a previous dispute with a partner who pretty much abandoned the business leaving the current manager to pick up the pieces ... it sounds like the manager wasn't available at the time but I do think you should speak to her first and foremost .... I will PM you her contact details.


No one has permission to sell their own bred animals but not outsourced animals. You cannot run a pet shop but only sell your own animals. You can sell your own animals *if it is not in the course of a business*.

By taking on this shop and working there they have become a business. They can no longer sell their own bred animals as a business without a PSL. 

You can be a private breeder, and not be a pet shop (no license). You cannot be a pet shop, and be a private breeder, even if you breed your own stock, you are always still a business and will need that license.

Rescues must still get veterinary treatment for animals that are ill, and care for them in the same manner as a pet shop (ie correct setups, lighting, temperature, feeding and so on). A rescue does not have an excuse to allow animals to be mistreated, if they now own these animals they must be getting them veterinary treatment if they are rescues and have problems such as MBD, or they can be prosecuted under the AWA.

Obviously as with my original guide it's important to speak to shop owners and try to resolve any differences, they may not be aware of the laws if they are telling people they are allowed to sell their own bred animals from their new shop, this is simply not the case, and better that they find out now from a customer than they find out when the council turn up and ban them from ever holding a license, which they can do!


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## gregmonsta (Dec 3, 2007)

Athravan said:


> No one has permission to sell their own bred animals but not outsourced animals. You cannot run a pet shop but only sell your own animals. You can sell your own animals *if it is not in the course of a business*.
> 
> By taking on this shop and working there they have become a business. They can no longer sell their own bred animals as a business without a PSL.
> 
> ...


I spoke to her and I know know that they passed both SSPCA and council inspections just one month ago and are waiting on the paperwork coming through. Infact my original statement of selling their CB stock came from the partner that left the business which also explains why the OP was told the animals were not for sale when she showed interest. They also have good contact with the local rep vet.
To be honest I don't see anything but a positive response coming from the manager.


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

Athravan said:


> No one has permission to sell their own bred animals but not outsourced animals. You cannot run a pet shop but only sell your own animals. You can sell your own animals *if it is not in the course of a business*.
> 
> By taking on this shop and working there they have become a business. They can no longer sell their own bred animals as a business without a PSL.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.

We are contacting the Council tomorrow.



> Well .... what can I say .... they are still a fledgling shop .... they have permission to sell their own captive bred animals but are not yet allowed to trade or sell outside sourced animals .... the majority of animals there at the moment are indeed rescues .... therefore their condition is not 100% to blame on the shop ... the shop is still a mess but this is partially down to a previous dispute with a partner who pretty much abandoned the business leaving the current manager to pick up the pieces ... it sounds like the manager wasn't available at the time but I do think you should speak to her first and foremost .... I will PM you her contact details.


Correct, the Owner/Manager was not there. Just two blokes who didn't have a clue. The place was a bomb site, the majority of animals were not be kept in the right conditions, regardless if it by law a shop or a private collection, Hatchling Beardies in small critter keepers with no Basking Light and more importantly no UV lighting. I have no idea what they are planning to do with the "Cave" like wall of cages, I think to much thought has gone into the apperence of it rather then the care of the animals housed inside, one of which was a very large male BD again, with no UV light, he looked as if he had MBD. I even asked was there any reason why he had no UV and he rattled back to me "It is just temporary housing".

The place is a shambles, and if the Council were to walk in today, the place would be closed down. I am really suprised no other complaints have been brought forward regarding this shop (or is it?)

Scott


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## gregmonsta (Dec 3, 2007)

Triangulum said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> We are contacting the Council tomorrow.
> 
> ...


:lol2: again .... the cavelike wall, 'temp' housing, etc the are all down to the previous partner who is no longer involved in the shop. The fact that it is a bombsite is mostly down to their efforts to rebuild and improve on the situation. Speak to the manager first and find out what the situation is.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

Sadly there are alot of reptiles shops becoming more and more like this, out to make a quick buck but dont put the required care and attention into the reptiles themselves....hopefully they will get it sorted shortly


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## bluemetalvampire (Jan 12, 2010)

*I own the shop*

hi there , i own the shop you are bad mouthing. if you have a problem you should have asked for the owner and expressed your concerns like a mature civilized adult. i know the shop is not perfect and am the first to hold my hands up to that as greigorb has said the shop is a work in progress and i am fixing a lot of mistakes made by the previous owner.however you should have taken the time to get your facts correct before blogging.

We only have 1 pair of breeding beardys which were left by the previous owner that have a basking light and a uv. The juevy beardys are in tubs so i can monitor who is eating correctly and who is not.And if you looked closely you would have seen several boxes that were ticked allocating them to be put into vivs on sun when the shop is closed and they can settle in without being disturbed.These are also contained in a viv with uv and daylight. The lil beardy in a viv with basking and no uv was on holiday boarding and had been brought up from down stairs ( holiday room ) and placed in there as he was being collected in a couple of hours. We do indeed have 2beardys with mbd.however these are housed downstairs and the public are not allowed there. they are currently under vetinary care and a specialized diet from the vet.our vet is girling and fraser on the Edinburgh rd behind tesco for anyone who wants to call him and clarify.

The snow corn and milksnake are not for sale as they were rescue cases and we do not know they're full history.The snow is suspected as gravid due to her behavior but its to early to tell. We will take rescue cases and rehabilitate them and were possible re-home them.The shop incurs the cost of rescue cases.

we have regular visits from brian cowie and donnie from the sspca branch in Edinburgh and have never had any problems with their inspections.please note they turn up unannounced. 

We currently have a temporary license and are awaiting the council sending the paper work.we will get a full license when we have finished the modification down stairs. however if you wish to call them and clarify please do so.

As for the English racist thing, one of the lads is English and they were larking around with each other.however if you were offended then i do apologize.

As for animals dying,the only one who is currently unwell is the lil green anole.he dived for a cricket and missed bashing his head and injuring his eye.we were advised by the vet not to move him as this would cause unneccessary stress and if he hadnt responded to the antibiotics and started eating again by week 4 ( this week starting ) then we would probly have to put him down.

We always encourage constructive criticism as long as people ascertain all the facts and behave in an adult manner.


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## lennon (Oct 3, 2008)

*Owner*



bluemetalvampire said:


> hi there , i own the shop you are bad mouthing. if you have a problem you should have asked for the owner and expressed your concerns like a mature civilized adult. i know the shop is not perfect and am the first to hold my hands up to that as greigorb has said the shop is a work in progress and i am fixing a lot of mistakes made by the previous owner.however you should have taken the time to get your facts correct before blogging.
> 
> We only have 1 pair of breeding beardys which were left by the previous owner that have a basking light and a uv. The juevy beardys are in tubs so i can monitor who is eating correctly and who is not.And if you looked closely you would have seen several boxes that were ticked allocating them to be put into vivs on sun when the shop is closed and they can settle in without being disturbed.These are also contained in a viv with uv and daylight. The lil beardy in a viv with basking and no uv was on holiday boarding and had been brought up from down stairs ( holiday room ) and placed in there as he was being collected in a couple of hours. We do indeed have 2beardys with mbd.however these are housed downstairs and the public are not allowed there. they are currently under vetinary care and a specialized diet from the vet.our vet is girling and fraser on the Edinburgh rd behind tesco for anyone who wants to call him and clarify.
> 
> ...




To the owner,


I do see your concerns about your shop but at the end of the day a good reptile shop would not have any reptiles on display like that. And if the councle has granted you the go ahead it needs taken up above their head.Its looks unsafe for customers aswell...Im suprised that the public liability insurers have given you a licence until its completed.

Firstly why have two members of staff with that type of attitude? its very off putting and to me i do not care if the other was english but my partner who was in with me was also and that was very insulting! bad practice and will make the customers leave .

Resques should be quarinteened shouldnt they? so why was the snow that you just got in on display? 

If i was you i would have some new staff and wait until you have got onto your feet before opening up to the public like that "my opinion" not trying to be patronising just outsider feedback goes a long way!! Fresh eyes so to speak.

Yes the staff were the ones who made it even more unbelievable.They did infact tell me some other story about the Anole being WILD caught and not eating?? 

Heres something for you to think about i do feel for you and would love to see another GREAT reptile shop local so if you are deadly serious and would like to grab peoples attention, Myself and partner would be willing to help you make things better.....for the livestock.


regards Shelley


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

bluemetalvampire said:


> hi there , i own the shop you are bad mouthing. if you have a problem you should have asked for the owner and expressed your concerns like a mature civilized adult. i know the shop is not perfect and am the first to hold my hands up to that as greigorb has said the shop is a work in progress and i am fixing a lot of mistakes made by the previous owner.however you should have taken the time to get your facts correct before blogging.
> 
> We only have 1 pair of breeding beardys which were left by the previous owner that have a basking light and a uv. The juevy beardys are in tubs so i can monitor who is eating correctly and who is not.And if you looked closely you would have seen several boxes that were ticked allocating them to be put into vivs on sun when the shop is closed and they can settle in without being disturbed.These are also contained in a viv with uv and daylight. The lil beardy in a viv with basking and no uv was on holiday boarding and had been brought up from down stairs ( holiday room ) and placed in there as he was being collected in a couple of hours. We do indeed have 2beardys with mbd.however these are housed downstairs and the public are not allowed there. they are currently under vetinary care and a specialized diet from the vet.our vet is girling and fraser on the Edinburgh rd behind tesco for anyone who wants to call him and clarify.
> 
> ...


Having never heard of your shop I can't say anything about your set ups.
However I run reptiles in a shop. You'll find your young Dragons will respond quicker if they're kept in a small group (perhaps even two) in a larger viv and fed three or four times daily. Young dragons in tubs will simply be too fatigued and feed less. It's pretty much false signalling. 

Also, if your license is being based on the animal management/pet shop managers course having Dragons in tubs is out with the guidelines and does approach falling sharp on regulation. Your wholesalers will have quite a hefty reduced price on a job lot of UV bulbs and ceramic/spotlight bulbs if you plan to use them in your shop. I believe you might even be able to claim the entire sum back next tax year. Some food for thought if you've not considered it already.

Robbie


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## bluemetalvampire (Jan 12, 2010)

*SHOP owner*

I asure you that all paperwork is in place with the relevant people and their guidelines. The snow was given the all clear by the vet and is housed upstairs with others as down stairs is currently being renovated to improve the electrics and install proper ventilation. we are ripping out the silly rock wall thing ( left by previous owner ) as those vivs are badly designed. However we cant move animals down stairs till the renovations are complete and we have enough vivs up and running.

Sadly I cant confirm if the anole is wild caught or not as he was found running around in an empty house by its new tenants and brought to us.

I know things at the minute are as not as wonderful as they could be but we are constantly striving to improve the shop and reach its full potential. We are deadly serious about making the shop as good as it could be and welcome any offers of help.


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## Thistlegorl36 (May 27, 2013)

*Perth reptile shop*

Is it the shop formerly known as Rock N Reptiles?


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