# komodo dragon monitor lizard



## brickdagecko (May 12, 2011)

there probably is a really simple answer to this but i'm curious, why dont people keep komodo daragons but keep monitor lizards?


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

DWA, Size, costs


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

SteveCourty said:


> DWA, Size, costs


tbf all those excises apply to Caiman crocodiles etc, and people keep them. I can only imagine cost is astronomical and now that they are listed vulnerable they are very difficult to get into the hobby.


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## I am a scarecrow (Nov 18, 2009)

SteveCourty said:


> DWA, Size, costs


I'm sure you don't need a dwal, as they're not covered. Sourcing one though, will be fairly tough.


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

are they DWA? why them and not croc monitors/them other mahoosive things :O


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

they are DWA as far as i know. they're extremely venomous (not just the bacteria in their mouths as was previously thought) basically in the wild, they bite something then run off and follow it from a distance while it dies. they didn't fully recognise the venom glands until 2005. also are they bred in captivity? as i understand its illegal to export WC nowadays


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Yes they are bred in zoos ive even heard zoos have to freeze eggs as they cant get rid of the adults. There would be a supply of them CB if it was easier i think


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## I am a scarecrow (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't think any Varanus are covered by the DWAA, including Komodos. Unless they've recently added them?

I don't think they're as easy as suggested, to breed in captivity either. I could be wrong on that though.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

if you can afford to and provide the space you can keep them alive you can keep absolutley anything you want and no komodo dragons aint dwaa so any monkey with a bit of dosh and good contacts can own one


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> if you can afford to and provide the space you can keep them alive you can keep absolutley anything you want and no komodo dragons aint dwaa so any monkey with a bit of dosh and good contacts can own one


how long would the keeper last though? :whistling2:


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## I am a scarecrow (Nov 18, 2009)

stevemusson said:


> how long would the keeper last though? :whistling2:


From a program I was watching, they seem to calm very well in captivity. That said, I wouldn't wanna go try it.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

stevemusson said:


> how long would the keeper last though? :whistling2:


i dunno mate but balls of steal would be requiered bigtime


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## ..:: F1D0 ::.. (May 13, 2009)

Surely anything with a deadly venom would fall under DWA?. And people wont keep them because they are not daft. One was for sale ages ago from a zoo and wanted over a £100,000. Also, they are en danged so i doubt you would get the agreement for it to be shipped. You would also need a Zoo license too.


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

imitebmike said:


> are they DWA? why them and not croc monitors/them other mahoosive things :O


if they're DWA it would be because of the venom and nature as opposed to size. having said that there are animals more dangerous than dwarf crocs that aren't when every species of croc are.


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

I am a scarecrow said:


> From a program I was watching, they seem to calm very well in captivity. That said, I wouldn't wanna go try it.


can't say they're on my wishlist either mate :lol2:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

..:: F1D0 ::.. said:


> Surely anything with a deadly venom would fall under DWA?. And people wont keep them because they are not daft. One was for sale ages ago from a zoo and wanted over a £100,000. Also, they are en danged so i doubt you would get the agreement for it to be shipped. You would also need a Zoo license too.


if i remember right mate its not venom its the minging bacteria in there mouths that kills there prey. whatever gets bitten ends up with scepticemia and dying. i think its life in cold blood that there following them and it took a wilda beast/ or buffalo 2 months to die after there bite but they were following it the whole time and when it went down it was game over 

patient buggers i think :lol2:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

dwa list and they aint there : victory:

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-animallist.pdf


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## ..:: F1D0 ::.. (May 13, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> if i remember right mate its not venom its the minging bacteria in there mouths that kills there prey. whatever gets bitten ends up with scepticemia and dying. i think its life in cold blood that there following them and it took a wilda beast/ or buffalo 2 months to die after there bite but they were following it the whole time and when it went down it was game over
> 
> patient buggers i think :lol2:


No, they actually have venom glands - its the venom that slowly breaks down when they attack, the bacteria in their saliva speeds up the process but they are actually venomous. It was in cold blood with David attenbough and if you watched it righ until the end, David himself said it was discovered they have venom glands and the toxicity is very high.


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

yeah, its not vemon, just really bad oral hygiene


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## reticmadness79 (May 7, 2009)

komodos are not DWA
as for getting 1 forget it there not available to the pet trade or private collectors.before zoo's get them they have to get permission to remove them from the wild of the royal family of the islands and a donation also has to be made to help protect them,all captive bred specimens can be donated to another zoo also with permission or returned to the wild.this is all in contract between the zoo,island animal protection co-ordinaters/goverment and the royal family of the islands where the dwell
As for personalities of them they calm like any other monitor and become puppy dog tame with the right approach the same as any other varanid.
iv seen loads of vids and pictures of real tame specimens and to say the least if given the chance id have 1 in a shot:2thumb:


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## I am a scarecrow (Nov 18, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> if i remember right mate its not venom its the minging bacteria in there mouths that kills there prey. whatever gets bitten ends up with scepticemia and dying. i think its life in cold blood that there following them and it took a wilda beast/ or buffalo 2 months to die after there bite but they were following it the whole time and when it went down it was game over
> 
> patient buggers i think :lol2:


I remember watching that, pretty menacing tv.


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## ..:: F1D0 ::.. (May 13, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> dwa list and they aint there : victory:
> 
> http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-animallist.pdf


They wont be on there as nobody keeps them in captivity. Apart from Zoos but you obviously need a zoo licence.


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Ohhhh, i recall some research into that last year or so, that all monitors have little amounts of something in their saliva too...


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

..:: F1D0 ::.. said:


> No, they actually have venom glands - its the venom that slowly breaks down when they attack, the bacteria in their saliva speeds up the process but they are actually venomous. It was in cold blood with David attenbough and if you watched it righ until the end, David himself said it was discovered they have venom glands and the toxicity is very high.


ahh that may have been my problem that i didnt watch the end bit that or the fact that iv not saw it since it was on tv the first time round lol

i may actually download it now:whistling2:


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

There are currently 3 Komodo Dragon's in the UK, 2 of them are owned by Colchester zoo, I believe the 3rd to be at London Zoo, outside of these there are no Legally Kept KD's in the country.

A Komodo Dragon does have Venom glands, the venom's strength is not as potent as the bacteria, the danger as quite rightly said previously is the bacterial build up in their mouths combined with the venomous bite.

They are not on the DWA List as the DWA list would say that if you ha the license you could keep it, when as far as I am aware, the Komodo Dragon require's a Zoo License and is unavailable / illegal as far as the public are concerned.


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## reticmadness79 (May 7, 2009)

Rthompson said:


> There are currently 3 Komodo Dragon's in the UK, 2 of them are owned by Colchester zoo, I believe the 3rd to be at London Zoo, outside of these there are no Legally Kept KD's in the country.
> 
> A Komodo Dragon does have Venom glands, the venom's strength is not as potent as the bacteria, the danger as quite rightly said previously is the bacterial build up in their mouths combined with the venomous bite.
> 
> They are not on the DWA List as the DWA list would say that if you ha the license you could keep it, when as far as I am aware, the Komodo Dragon require's a Zoo License and is unavailable / illegal as far as the public are concerned.


chester zoo also have 1,they did have a pr but the female fell and broke her neck after climbing the rock/concrete wall,not sure if they got another yet,not been in awhile


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## Ste123 (Apr 30, 2011)

In america they are kept as pets, if you
Go on http://eroticzone.com you
Will be amazed that they have a forum
Dedicated to keeping komodos..... In fact they have a forum
For almost everything and 3 just for bearded dragons but it's got lots of Americans on it so it's a bit crap lol


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

didnt that one on london zoo also lay a clutch of eggs...like 6 years ago...i guess thats a way to get ahold of some xD


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

There are Komodo dragons in private collections in Europe


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> if i remember right mate its not venom its the minging bacteria in there mouths that kills there prey. whatever gets bitten ends up with scepticemia and dying. i think its life in cold blood that there following them and it took a wilda beast/ or buffalo 2 months to die after there bite but they were following it the whole time and when it went down it was game over
> 
> patient buggers i think :lol2:


 they used to think it was bacteria but did a study on them in 2005 and discovered they had large venom glands too. if you google venomous lizard you can read the whole article from new scientist. a lot more lizards have venom or remnants of glands than previously thought. when i was a kid i was taught that gilla monsters and one other i forget were the only 2 venomous lizards


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

stevemusson said:


> they used to think it was bacteria but did a study on them in 2005 and discovered they had large venom glands too. if you google venomous lizard you can read the whole article from new scientist. a lot more lizards have venom or remnants of glands than previously thought. when i was a kid i was taught that gilla monsters and one other i forget were the only 2 venomous lizards


Beaded lizards


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

The legislation surrounding them is different outside of the UK, however within the UK.. it isn't permitted.

I believe the 1 in chester was moved to Colchester for a while


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

Chris18 said:


> Beaded lizards


 that's the one : victory: it was a long time ago when i was at school :lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Rthompson said:


> There are currently 3 Komodo Dragon's in the UK, 2 of them are owned by Colchester zoo, I believe the 3rd to be at London Zoo, outside of these there are no Legally Kept KD's in the country.


More than that - there are at least three at Chester Zoo alone (or at least there definitely were in March 2011) - a male, plus Flora the female who had a parthenogenic clutch of eggs, and one of Flora's parthenogenic offspring (the other five or six were traded elsewhere if I remember rightly). 



..:: F1D0 ::.. said:


> They wont be on there as nobody keeps them in captivity. Apart from Zoos but you obviously need a zoo licence.


There are plenty of things on the DWA list that people don't TEND to keep in private collections - like elephants and tapirs - so you'd have thought that if they _intended _for the Komodo dragon to be on there, they would be.

It is perfectly POSSIBLE to keep them in a private collection, and for example if I found someone who'd sell me an EU captive-bred baby with the appropriate Article-10 paperwork as far as I am aware there would be no UK licencing restriction preventing me from having it. Now, the CITES appendix 1 status would forbid me from having a wild-caught one... but that doesn't mean you couldn't obtain CB specimens, since there are plenty of other CITES I species in private collections (Dumerils boas, for example). It'd be interesting if anyone can find a citation of the exact Indonesian laws regarding ownership of Komodos.

Being venomous isn't enough - by itself - to get an animal onto the DWA list. It's also got to be considered a threat to the public. Neither platypus nor slow loris are on the list, nor are wild-caught dart frogs.


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> More than that - there are at least three at Chester Zoo alone (or at least there definitely were in March 2011) - a male, plus Flora the female who had a parthenogenic clutch of eggs, and one of Flora's parthenogenic offspring (the other five or six were traded elsewhere if I remember rightly).
> 
> 
> There are plenty of things on the DWA list that people don't TEND to keep in private collections - like elephants and tapirs - so you'd have thought that if they _intended _for the Komodo dragon to be on there, they would be.
> ...


 are tapirs DWA? i've petted peruvian tapirs in zoos before. they love being scratched and will fall asleep like pigs do when scratched behind the ear:lol2: not sure about malaysian tapirs though as they're a lot bigger.


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## M022ER (Dec 3, 2009)

Probably because there F*****G evil =D

There an amazing species of reptile, but like people have said, getting hold of them would be a bugger, they are large, probably expensive to keep. ECT ECT i would of thought the Con's outweighed the Pro's


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## M022ER (Dec 3, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> More than that - there are at least three at Chester Zoo alone (or at least there definitely were in March 2011) - a male, plus Flora the female who had a parthenogenic clutch of eggs, and one of Flora's parthenogenic offspring (the other five or six were traded elsewhere if I remember rightly).
> 
> 
> There are plenty of things on the DWA list that people don't TEND to keep in private collections - like elephants and tapirs - so you'd have thought that if they _intended _for the Komodo dragon to be on there, they would be.
> ...


That Komodo drgon's are venomous is hugely speculated between scientists anyway, they have pathogens within their saliva which deteriorate muscle tissue.. Although, i suppose pathogenic saliva could be counted as venom... Depends on who you ask i guess.

KD's do posses venom glands but research is currently being undergone to see whether they actually use the glands and whether they are used for a different function within the dragon. (I'm doing research within uni and came across papers regarding this stuff) Was an interesting read. 

Biologists never agree..

EDIT: i'm not saying your wrong... for all i know they are venomous (Y)


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

stevemusson said:


> are tapirs DWA? i've petted peruvian tapirs in zoos before. they love being scratched and will fall asleep like pigs do when scratched behind the ear:lol2: not sure about malaysian tapirs though as they're a lot bigger.


Yup, all species of tapir are listed.

As are all species of hyena EXCEPT aardwolves - no idea why they're not included, though!

Odd that cetaceans aren't - suppose the internationally agreed requirements for pool size in order to keep cetaceans are high enough to discourage the vast majority of people who might want one.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

reticmadness79 said:


> chester zoo also have 1,they did have a pr but the female fell and broke her neck after climbing the rock/concrete wall,not sure if they got another yet,not been in awhile


When I went to Chester in late April 2011 they only had one adult on display and 1 juvenile. Which must of been one of the pathogenatic young from the female who fell and broke her neck. Both were superb examples of Komodo dragons.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

UrolithicTitan said:


> When I went to Chester in late April 2011 they only had one adult on display and 1 juvenile. Which must of been one of the pathogenatic young from the female who fell and broke her neck. Both were superb examples of Komodo dragons.


Flora is still alive.

They have an outdoor enclosure for the male, who is allowed out into it when it's not too cold but is otherwise kept off display. The big indoor display is Flora's. The juvenile is one of the parthenogenic male offspring from Flora.


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## Will Dawson (Sep 27, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Flora is still alive.
> 
> They have an outdoor enclosure for the male, who is allowed out into it when it's not too cold but is otherwise kept off display. The big indoor display is Flora's. The juvenile is one of the parthenogenic male offspring from Flora.


Didn't Chester zoo try to breed their komodos? Thought I saw a TV programme about it


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Flora is still alive.
> 
> They have an outdoor enclosure for the male, who is allowed out into it when it's not too cold but is otherwise kept off display. The big indoor display is Flora's. The juvenile is one of the parthenogenic male offspring from Flora.


That's who the other Komodo dragon was. I saw him as well, but forgot about him.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

I watched this programme the other day with Dr Bryan Fry about the Komodos and the discovery of the venom gland. Was very interesting.

YouTube - ‪Evolve Episode 8 Venom Part 2/3 HD‬‏


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Flora is still alive.
> 
> They have an outdoor enclosure for the male, who is allowed out into it when it's not too cold but is otherwise kept off display. The big indoor display is Flora's. The juvenile is one of the parthenogenic male offspring from Flora.


Yes thats correct as i took photo's of Flora and the parthenogenic offspring which interestingly enough are all male's as this has something to do with re-population if only females or a single female remain on that particular island :2thumb:


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

monitor mad said:


> Yes thats correct as i took photo's of Flora and the parthenogenic offspring which interestingly enough are all male's as this has something to do with re-population if only females or a single female remain on that particular island :2thumb:


Clever aint it, evolution at its finest


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

DavieB said:


> Clever aint it, evolution at its finest


Agreed :no1:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I cannot actually believe the amount of crap posted as fact here. 

Komodo dragons are NOT DWA. 

There are PRIVATE owners in the UK and Europe with captive Komodo's 

Zoo's do not and will not freeze the eggs etc. They are an endangered species and there are international breeding programs. 

The reason they are not as common as bearded dragons is because they are big, threatened and rare. Nile, Water, and even crocodile monitors are captive because they are fairly common in the wild.


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

darkdan99 said:


> I cannot actually believe the amount of crap posted as fact here.
> 
> Komodo dragons are NOT DWA.
> 
> ...


Not agreeing or disagreeing with you because I do not know, but common sense says they are very, very rare in captivity because they are :censor:ing huuuuuge and must cost a fortune to buy and feed and potentially deadly. 

So this restricts the list of owners down to the rich, eccentric lizard lovers, who value the beauty of their 'pet' more than their lives.

I don't know of anyone like this, nor do I know anyone who owns one.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Rthompson said:


> The legislation surrounding them is different outside of the UK, however within the UK.. it isn't permitted.


what makes you say that?


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

darkdan99 said:


> I cannot actually believe the amount of crap posted as fact here.
> 
> Komodo dragons are NOT DWA.
> 
> ...


well hello stranger, that was a name i didnt expect to see posting. 

BUt agree with your post totally. 

kamodos are not DWA, and no liscence is required to keep them, why, because they are so hard to get. . 

The only way to get one (legally) is to be gifted one by the King of Komodo Island. There are a few people who keep them in private collections in the UK and europe, but they are relativly unusual due to how difficult it is to get, as you can only get one through being gifted. I am sure there are also stipulations on what can be done with the ofspring as well, i.e. they can only be passed on/sold with certain stipulations, thus why they arnt commonly kept. 

Hope that clears up a few points. 

Jay


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

I heard monitormad is working on breeding his pair.


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

DavieB said:


> I heard monitormad is working on breeding his pair.


:lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

monitor mad said:


> :lol2::lol2::lol2:


 My go monitor mad of all the monitors you have and all the pics you put up of them, you have never once put up pics of your pair of Komodo dragons.:lol2::lol2:


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

TBF keepers of rare and unusual breeds ahve to keep some things quite for risk of being robbed etc. I really shouldn't have let this information out of the bag


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

komodo dragon for sale :whistling2:
Buy Hosta Komodo Dragon, for sale at the DG Marketplace.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> komodo dragon for sale :whistling2:
> Buy Hosta Komodo Dragon, for sale at the DG Marketplace.


:lol2:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

UrolithicTitan said:


> :lol2:


its funny to because you know 90% of people that read that are going to click it to have a nosey 


*ha ha*


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> its funny to because you know 90% of people that read that are going to click it to have a nosey
> 
> 
> *ha ha*


 
:blush::blush::blush: :bash:


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## Slashware (Dec 20, 2009)

Rthompson said:


> There are currently 3 Komodo Dragon's in the UK, 2 of them are owned by Colchester zoo, I believe the 3rd to be at London Zoo, outside of these there are no Legally Kept KD's in the countr . =QUOTE] and http://http://www.chesterzoo.org/animals/Reptiles/snakes-and-lizards/komodo-dragon


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

monitor mad said:


> :blush::blush::blush: :bash:


 
sorry couldnt resist :lol2:


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## eco_tonto (Aug 1, 2008)

Rthompson said:


> There are currently 3 Komodo Dragon's in the UK, 2 of them are owned by Colchester zoo, I believe the 3rd to be at London Zoo, outside of these there are no Legally Kept KD's in the country.
> 
> A Komodo Dragon does have Venom glands, the venom's strength is not as potent as the bacteria, the danger as quite rightly said previously is the bacterial build up in their mouths combined with the venomous bite.
> 
> They are not on the DWA List as the DWA list would say that if you ha the license you could keep it, when as far as I am aware, the Komodo Dragon require's a Zoo License and is unavailable / illegal as far as the public are concerned.


There are three komodo in the UK........

And the rest!!!!

I am lead to beleive there is a lone male Komodo privately owned in the ROI, i was told by what i deam to be a very relaible source however i dont know it to be fact myself.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

eco_tonto said:


> There are three komodo in the UK........
> 
> And the rest!!!!
> 
> I am lead to beleive there is a lone male Komodo privately owned in the *ROI*, i was told by what i deam to be a very relaible source however i dont know it to be fact myself.


Thats not in the UK though.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

seriously though if you did have one what the bloody hell would you feed it. 

do you think exo terra do a heat matt big enough to put on the wall of the viv in case he gets cold at night?


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Road kill dear.



> seriously though if you did have one what the bloody hell would you feed it.
> 
> do you think exo terra do a heat matt big enough to put on the wall of the viv in case he gets cold at night?
> /QUOTE]


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

DavieB said:


> Road kill dear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

DavieB said:


> Thats not in the UK though.


There are a couple in private collections in the UK i believe. 

Jay


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't know where your facts are appearing from. 

Colchester Zoo has a pair, Telu and Mutu-and 12 recently laid eggs. 
London Zoo has Sonlai, raja and two of her 4 babies, which are about 5 years old now. 
Chester Zoo has Flora and Trooper, and 5 of her babies, about 3 years old.

That covers at least a dozen, even if a few have been relocated. 

Add to that a pair I believe is still in private hands in North West England, and a few reportedly in the republic of Ireland. its a few more than three! 

As for the fortune feeding? They eat something around 3kg a week of meat, so if you buy cheap meat and supplement with meal or grain for fibre, you could afford that on virtually the same amount as a bearded dragon. Even when buying rats it would only run you a fiver or so...

I even have a spare room that is pretty much big enough to keep one, all i need do now is get someone to give me one!


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Money gets you anything ou want. There has to be more than you would imagine. Just the people that have them dont want people to know.


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

id gladly keep one they are great animals and to have a tame one would be awsome


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

I'd love one!! :-D

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

There is a thread concerning Komodos in the DWA section which may also be helpful 
-Chels


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