# And the walls keep tumbling down........



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

I know, l know, l am classed as all sorts of things on this forum, external to this forum, but why do l do it?

Why do l continually and with apparent ease try and upset you all?

Is there really a reason to my madness?

I would like to think so.

I would like to think that what l do is not scaremongering, but just trying to keep people informed.

Potentially in five years times, it could well be a fact that all imports of captive-bred reptiles will be banned.

Wild caught make up for such a small proportion of the hobby and the industry, but captive bred reptiles into the United Kingdom banned? 
So the question is, how do you feel about this?

Thanks

Rory
Pro Keepers Lobby


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

can we have some background information as to what this is based on?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi Pink, 

This does come from a reliable source, but before we can discuss this further we must know how people feel about this first.

Essentially this works on the same mechanism that affected the 'wild caught and captive bred birds' entering Europe. This will work on the same principal but for reptiles and amphibians. For it will basically end the captive bred livestocks entering Europe, which will in turn seriously affect Britains trade.

Through unachieveable criteria, reptiles and amphibians will be denied access for purchase into the EU. Whilst free trade will still exist between Europe and Britain, it will mean all non EU imports will be banned.

R


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

It would be such a shame for CB reptiles to be banned from entering the UK 

So many beautiful specimens have been taken on by breeders in the UK !!!


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## claire_e_dodd (Sep 18, 2007)

I don't understand why this would be prohibited, there doesn't seem to be any obvious risk to importing CB reptiles.

I'm assuming that it would not affect CB reptiles already in the UK, or the breeding of these herps, or am I wrong?


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

But there is no apprent reason for them wishing to kill the any reptiles who havebeen CB int he UK but have no paperwork - sometimes they don't need a feasible reason to get the hammer nad chisel out and chip away at the hobby a tad more  

I think it woul dbe ludicrous - while we have osme amazing breeders in he EU, we still have a lot of imports come form the rest of hte world to us


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

First off, Brit.

This is not about killing any reptiles honey. This is different to EPS. 

This is basically about the long range plans that are curently swinging into action via the same selective European committee that made the legislation commence and complete for the ban of Wild Caught birds into Europe.

In the same breath because of unachievable criteria it made it so that it was also difficult for the importation of captive birds into Europe as well.

What this actually implies and perhaps keepers have not caught onto this - is this

If they cease/ban the importation of Non EU reptiles into EU, this will mean that he likes of American and Indonesian importers based in both UK and Europe are not allowed to do so, for it will be a banned policy on not just wild caught but also on captive bred species.

This is currently being discussed and has the full anti backing, because of their feelings of the exotic pet trade.

Because we know how these things fare and the case of birds is a perfect example, primarily because that is now legislation, we can forsee where these discussion and consultations of this committee are going, and it is with regret that we do also forsee in the near future that this piece of legislation will occur.

This could not just be seen as a slighlty annoying piece of legis but a seriously damaging piece of legis to not just the reptile keeping fraternity but also the industry.

A lot of UK and European importers bring in from external EU.

Now, the thing that is different about these proposals is this:

If they say just place a ban on wild caught species, well this will win the empathy vote anyway, seeing as a lot of the voters including current reptile keepers wish to see a stop to this, but wild caught species formulate only a very small percentage to the industry. But in order to make sure that it affects captive breds they are looking to impose a new swing on it, by decreasing importing quotas.

As said this will not affect free trade between Uk and Europe directly, but it will impose a serious problem for those who rely upon their business's if they import captive breds external EU community.

R
PKL


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I know it isn't connected in any way hun I was pointing out that sometimes the so called powers that be who make these decisions don't need to thikn of the bigger picture with reference to Pink's response about not seeing why the importation would be prohibited 

Things don't seemt o be loking good right now but I sure am glad we have our very own "Voice of doom" (lol ) who is prepared to keep us up to speed onthings because if not for PKL right now making keepers aware, we would all be stuck in the dark for a long time


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Edit sorry it was actually Claire's post I was answering to - sorry: victory:


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Would be bad indeed... Even to stop WC in my opinion (and I know a lot of people here don't share that one at all!) would be a real blow for the hobby.

I too am glad for these updates, I'd know nothing if it wasn't for all the info on this forum.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

if a country allows its wildlife to be exported then there is nothing wrong with us receiving them.

If they are endangered then its up to them to stop the exports, fair enough to expect co-operation at all ends.

Other than that i don't think there is any need for any further restrictions this end [eu] its mad.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I kind of get the whole WC thing Aly (I think)

I am not opposed to WC animals when they are subsequesntly going to be CB to ease the srain on the numbers in the wild and I understand that with some species, WC is necessary to keep a good cross blod lines wthin the captive industry.

I only really oppose WC when it is for a species that is over sold ont he Cb market and is only being sold WC for the sake of it


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Just think, no more tremper leos coming into the EU, nor any of the other big breeders

Buying from the states for collection at hamm.....banned !

Why?

When trade within the EU is fine? 

Maybe my take on this is off the mark, but its not endearing me to the new USE (United States of Europe). 

Is our hobby on the list to be USEd ???


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Right on the mark*

Indeed so PJ.

That is exactly right.

EU trade will be fine once the proposed ban is firm, but for how long before they decide to clamp down on buying from Europe?

And this will certainly affect current keepers and potentially new keepers alike. It will crush business, it will crush the hobby, it will crush retailers, it will crush the industry.

All these pieces of new legislation, existing legislation, proposed legislation, the opposition, the lack of defence, apathy, demotivation it all will lead to the end of what we know things today as.

Someone today, said that they thought it could possibly all be over in ten years tops, unless we pulled our fingers out and started working against things. And when they said said it, they said it in such a way that l thought 'Shit, he means it!"

Now another proposed campaign joins our ranks, with another aimed at new art 10 legislation and also freedom food campaigns, every where l look l have different people from all walks saying why and what is being done about it all?

Good questions really.......

R
PKL


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

brittone05 said:


> I kind of get the whole WC thing Aly (I think)
> 
> I am not opposed to WC animals when they are subsequesntly going to be CB to ease the srain on the numbers in the wild and I understand that with some species, WC is necessary to keep a good cross blod lines wthin the captive industry.
> 
> I only really oppose WC when it is for a species that is over sold ont he Cb market and is only being sold WC for the sake of it


Thankyouthankyouthankyou!
(it's nice to know someone out there thinks like me and I'm not a cruel nut case after all!)


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## trese (Oct 2, 2006)

same her i think wc is fine when it will help build numbers in the cb hoby in which will later allow the wild population to grow i again hate w animals being sol when there is a large amount of the particular species in the hobby already cb


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

One of the biggest things would be an abrupt stop to the thousands of Captive Farmed royal pythons that are shipped in every year and the almost monthly import of Serpenco bred corns.

I am glad that my collection is complete all bar one snake ( which just happens to be European ) ... but for those just starting out with their collections. This is the worst possible news.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

It is indeed very bad news Steve - many people build thier collections around the day arriving when they can pick up thier special purchase be it a Serpence, Tremper or any other high end morph that isn't available in the EU.

Ally - glad I could ease the thought you were cruel lol I don't think anyone should see it that way after all every single species was once WC to create the domestic and captively bred animals we now have - even dogs and cats. Some morphs have only come about due to finding a lucky gene in a WC specimen


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

it has still got to be made illegal, loads of propositions never make it to the final stages


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeah... but this is European law Si. Just the same as the EPS so once that law is passed, the governments hands are tied and they have to implement it no matter how much stink we kick up. The EPS is already law... what we are kicking up about is the way it is being implemented.

Given all the countries that now make up the EU and the fact that the UK is seen as an outsider in the first place given our refusal to adopt the Euro... what we think will not matter a bit. All we can do is sit and watch.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

ratboy said:


> One of the biggest things would be an abrupt stop to the thousands of Captive Farmed royal pythons that are shipped in every year and the almost monthly import of Serpenco bred corns.
> 
> I am glad that my collection is complete all bar one snake ( which just happens to be European ) ... but for those just starting out with their collections. This is the worst possible news.


This was what I was mentioning at the TVRS meeting! You'd lose the common only CF available species like Bosc's monitors, iggies etc. and some of the rare ones too. Those hoping to eventually get a Boelen's python wouldn't be able to etc.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Fangio said:


> This was what I was mentioning at the TVRS meeting! You'd lose the common only CF available species like Bosc's monitors, iggies etc. and some of the rare ones too. Those hoping to eventually get a Boelen's python wouldn't be able to etc.


Yes... I guessed this was the same thing you were talking about mate.


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