# Japanese Koi Centre - Still having troubles keeping up!



## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

*Japanese Koi Centre, Henlow, Bedfordshire - Still having troubles keeping up!*

Went to the Japanese Koi Centre in Henlow, Beds again today.

They have a very large amount of stock in at the moment where spiders are concerned. However it seems they're still having trouble keeping all of it well looked after.

We discovered that one of their juvenile Tapinauchenius sp. (kept in an Exo-Terra Nano) was dead today (not the first dead spider we've seen there) and they are re-selling on someone's Brachypelma smithi in a 12x10 or so terrestrial House of Spiders enclosure.... 



Sadly they were
Asking over £100 for it (couldn't see the spider clearly but looked like it was prob a large juvi) and
Clueless to the fact that B. smithi are not hugely fond of living in marsh conditions!!! (Seriously, the tank was covered in condensation.)
Finally, it still bugs me that they still don't bother to put the scientific names up for most of the spiders. 

It's not helpful as none of the staff (with one exception) ever know what any of them are (and that one exception is the guy who orders them in, so it's kinda obvious that they know.) 

I still think it's daft when you see things like "Stripe legged tarantula" - I can think of lots of bloody Ts with stripy legs and it would be foolish to assume it's any one of them!

I was curious to know what they class as a 'striped ornamental' but none of the staff could tell me what species this was. I'm assuming it's a Poecilotheria ornata but nobody was able to confirm if this was the case and despite the large sweetie jar they were in, they were both invisible (so probably large slings hiding in substrate) behind the glass wall. 

We go to JKC quite a lot, it's our local, and they do have a lot of great, if overpriced, stock. I just wish they would look after their inverts as well as they look after their reptiles and fish. 

*Big sighs* So near, so very near, yet so bloody far!


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## herpzane (Apr 1, 2008)

Crapped myself when i saw a thumbs down next to japanese koi centre aha, I Manage a reptile department in a koi centre in southampton. But from what you have said things dont sound good there. I Look after well over 140 animals. Its not difficult and there isnt really any excuse for dead animals left in tanks!


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## Nick Masson (Nov 8, 2010)

Sounds like a place that you should be seriously avoiding!


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## herpzane (Apr 1, 2008)

I would go Ape s**t if i walked into work and found a dead animal on display!


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

herpzane said:


> I would go Ape s**t if i walked into work and found a dead animal on display!


Go to the reptile center in crews hill, they are not allowed to keep reptiles any more, but they still have T,s and frogs and stuff.
Went in for some live food had dead frogs on display and rotting, nice.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

herpzane said:


> I would go Ape s**t if i walked into work and found a dead animal on display!


We told one of the chaps that we know there (employee) and he just said "are you sure it isn't a skin?" Hrmmm.. Let's see.. First of all it's in a death curl... lol

To be fair, it's extremely busy there and they probably don't have enough time to look after all the chavs that buy stuff from there. It just seems a bit of a pity. I sometimes think they just carry a little too much stock, or perhaps they need to assign maintenance duty a little better. If none of the staff know what the species are, then they sure as hell wouldn't know how to look after them. 

Today they have OBTs, Chiles, various avics, P irminias, A genics, orange huntsmen, GBBs, Iridopelmas, T blondis, some miscellaneous spiders with the word 'stripe' in the name (ornamentals, knees, legs,) salmon pink.. lots of grumpy spiders... Plenty of 'pedes and scorps too but I know absolutely nothing about them so I couldn't possibly comment on them!


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## herpzane (Apr 1, 2008)

Thats disgusting!, they should be shot! It really annoys me as all shops get tarred with the same brush!. Me and 2 people i work with work our asses off sometimes until 10 at night (we shut at 6) cleaning, feeding, watering, just general faffing about with it all making sure its well looked after. It really isnt hard just to give them the bare minimum of care! It really isnt! I can underdstand on busy days they dont get much time to spend with the animals but a ROTTING animal is just disgusting!


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Yeah that's pretty bad.

In all honesty, by the time we got back from the fridge and had gone thru all the livefood, they had pulled the viv out and were inspecting to see if the tree spider was in fact dead. 

Of course, it was. The chap that was doing so said that he had been away a while, and implied it's normally him that looks after them so perhaps they only have the two chaps that know how to tend to spiders.

Still, no excuse for bad husbandry. It makes me a little sad every time. I keep looking to see if they have a P. subfusca or miranda there that I can rescue but I'm sure it'd be advertised as a 'mottled ornamental' or something equally obscure if they did (and a 2" sling would probably be 50 quid.)


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

Those orange huntsmans, are not orange huntsmans either, nor are they salei's like he will claim.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

DannyB said:


> Those orange huntsmans, are not orange huntsmans either, nor are they salei's like he will claim.


Oh really? Tell me more!! I know nothing about trues.


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

guruphil said:


> Oh really? Tell me more!! I know nothing about trues.


Hahah thats all i can tell you. I want one though!


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

DannyB said:


> Hahah thats all i can tell you. I want one though!


LOL 

I'm still after a subfusca, metallica and miranda.. Plus a X. immanis or intermedia and probably an L violaceopes too... But we don't have much more space in the current house (or much additional time to devote) so prob just get a couple more.. Think the other half wants a couple more Brachypelmas so roll on the BTS!


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## herpzane (Apr 1, 2008)

guruphil said:


> LOL
> 
> I'm still after a subfusca, metallica and miranda.. Plus a X. immanis or intermedia and probably an L violaceopes too... But we don't have much more space in the current house (or much additional time to devote) so prob just get a couple more.. Think the other half wants a couple more Brachypelmas so roll on the BTS!


Could have sworn i was offered these recently, can drop you a pm if i can find who had them?


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Cool, really looking for something that is the right 'food size' (most of our spiders are between 1.5" and 4" leg span. Particularly keen to find a 3" or so miranda or subfusca (probably a "highland" actually as then I don't have to worry about it getting tooooo big (if we believe the theory that there are two variations!) 

Cheers. 

P.


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## Cockys Royals (Jun 28, 2008)

Ive been to JKC a few times over the years, under staffed and wasnt too impressed when they had approx 15 tortoises in one glass enclosure which was approx 4ft x 2ft at a guess, and they mixed up the uro species. We purchased what we thought to be a female rat, when we got to the car to have a look damn thing had what females dont usually have a couple of extra carrier bags rofl. Soon took it back in & the guy said "I dont know I dont usually sell these" thing is the damn thing was in an enclosure & stated on the front that it was females so this one got lucky I suppose.


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## Nick Masson (Nov 8, 2010)

herpzane said:


> Thats disgusting!, they should be shot! It really annoys me as all shops get tarred with the same brush!. Me and 2 people i work with work our asses off sometimes until 10 at night (we shut at 6) cleaning, feeding, watering, just general faffing about with it all making sure its well looked after. It really isnt hard just to give them the bare minimum of care! It really isnt! I can underdstand on busy days they dont get much time to spend with the animals but a ROTTING animal is just disgusting!



Completely agree. Disgusting


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Funny old stories
If like you say it was in shocking order they should sort it out.

You hardly ever hear about good stores but its always little twonks with nothing better to do than dis a place just to get attention.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

And to think they have actually improved a great deal from what things used to be like!!!!

Its bad that things die but sadly in pet stores its common aquatic centres loose hundreds every year through transportation. The difference would be how long it wa son display after it had passed. I can imagine it would be hard to tell with a spid.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Baldpoodle said:


> Funny old stories
> If like you say it was in shocking order they should sort it out.
> 
> You hardly ever hear about good stores but its always little twonks with nothing better to do than dis a place just to get attention.


AmeyZoo in Bovingdon, now there's a great store  

JKC seems to sway, I think they just really need to train their staff a lot more. Most of the people working in the exotic dept seem to be teenage girls and sadly according to typecast they unfortunately don't seem too fond of the inverts. :lol2:

The place has _loads_ of potential, it just seems to fall a bit short most of the time where inverts are concerned. Plus their markups are often enormous.. £30-35 for a genic sling/small juvi, £60 for a Mexican Blonde juvi if I recall correctly.. Mind you I suppose most shops overcharge.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Marinam2 said:


> And to think they have actually improved a great deal from what things used to be like!!!!
> 
> Its bad that things die but sadly in pet stores its common aquatic centres loose hundreds every year through transportation. The difference would be how long it wa son display after it had passed. I can imagine it would be hard to tell with a spid.


Yeah again it's a training thing. The spider was literally in the front of the terrarium, at waist height, so it was kinda broadcasting "Yo! Look at me! I've snuffed it!"

However, I suspect that few of the staff there really know the difference by sight between a dead spider, an exuvia and a spider in moult. It's a shame. Hopefully it'll improve further.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Me and the OH have noticed they're not great with spiders too. Dean picked up a Haplopelma albostriata from there which they said was Aphonopelma seemani, bit of a difference I think! She also had mites. I picked up a little pruriens, tbh it was an impulse buy and I should have checked it better :blush: The tub it was kept in was way too wet, and the dirt was quite hot to touch. It didn't move properly, but it's moulted since and seems to be okay now. 

They do need to sort out that section tbh. Not having time is no excuse at all, particularly where spiders are concerned. But if you havn't got staff who know how to look after them properly, or who are all scared of them why sell them? 

Overall the shop is good (pricey but what can you do lol), but that section does let them down.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

My spiders sit in a temperature controlled lab, and over the weekend I usually don't see them. One of mine could have died on Friday night, I'll find it monday lunchtime - am I suddenly a (more) horrendous person? I don't really see how having a dead spider on display is such a horrible thing. 

Lack of staff being clued up was I thought, a syndrome of basically 90% of pet stores who are trying to sell a bit of everything. I'm pretty sure everyone here here will have different opinions on what is "good husbandry" to a degree so that would make most pet stores a bit rubbish who differed. At the end of the day, you are moaning about the animals being too expensive, so they are cheap - cheap things are not treated with the same respect. Seems they can't win really.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

GRB said:


> My spiders sit in a temperature controlled lab, and over the weekend I usually don't see them. One of mine could have died on Friday night, I'll find it monday lunchtime - am I suddenly a (more) horrendous person? I don't really see how having a dead spider on display is such a horrible thing.
> 
> Lack of staff being clued up was I thought, a syndrome of basically 90% of pet stores who are trying to sell a bit of everything. I'm pretty sure everyone here here will have different opinions on what is "good husbandry" to a degree so that would make most pet stores a bit rubbish who differed. At the end of the day, you are moaning about the animals being too expensive, so they are cheap - cheap things are not treated with the same respect. Seems they can't win really.


Fair statements.

I think it just annoys me because they usually have 3 or 4 people 'on hand' in the exotics department, and if you're lucky one of them might know something about perhaps one or two of the 30 or 40 spiders that they have for sale.

It wouldn't take much to improve, to be honest. Consistently labelling the spiders with their scientific names as well as the common names would be a good start as then at least the staff wouldn't be subject to repeated questions from hobbyists (even if the novices would still be up the creek.)


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## Biffy (May 23, 2010)

the spiders they have marked up as huntsmen are Ancylometes Bogotensis fishing spiders, havent been there for a couple of weeks but the ornamentals they had then where p.regalis.

i once got a bargain there a nice p.cambrigei it was in a cricket tub when i got to the till the young lady charged me £2.39 instead of the £19.99 as there was a lable still on there from when they had crickets in the tub i quickly paid and walked out:lol2:


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Biffy said:


> the spiders they have marked up as huntsmen are Ancylometes Bogotensis fishing spiders, havent been there for a couple of weeks but the ornamentals they had then where p.regalis.
> 
> i once got a bargain there a nice p.cambrigei it was in a cricket tub when i got to the till the young lady charged me £2.39 instead of the £19.99 as there was a lable still on there from when they had crickets in the tub i quickly paid and walked out:lol2:


Yeah they had a re-stock. Their regalis were sold and now instead of 'Indian ornamental' they have 'striped ornamental' spiders. They've got a lot more stuff in, and some more spiders down underneath where they keep their millipedes etc (opposite their bug gel and whatnot.)


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

If you don't like it there then don't buy from them? I've never brought from a pet shop because I don't like the way they are kept. The one up the road from me had an avid very badly kept, few weeks later it was gone, I assume dead. They haven't had a spider in since. 

Their invert section now consists of some mantids and roaches, even then I saw one of those dead... Who can kill cockroach, aren't they supposed to be indestructible. :whistling2:


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## Pincer (Dec 2, 2010)

Biffy said:


> the spiders they have marked up as huntsmen are Ancylometes Bogotensis fishing spiders, havent been there for a couple of weeks but the ornamentals they had then where p.regalis.
> 
> i once got a bargain there a nice p.cambrigei it was in a cricket tub when i got to the till the young lady charged me £2.39 instead of the £19.99 as there was a lable still on there from when they had crickets in the tub i quickly paid and walked out:lol2:


Very dishonest thing to do don't think I will even bother looking at your website to buy anything if that's how you operate.


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

guruphil said:


> Went to the Japanese Koi Centre in Henlow, Beds again today.
> 
> They have a very large amount of stock in at the moment where spiders are concerned. However it seems they're still having trouble keeping all of it well looked after.
> 
> ...


The jap koi are rubbish there one of our local shops and in my oppinion shouldn't have a trading licence mainly because of the condition they keep there reps in. Kimberly rock monitors in with frilled lizards royals with serious mouth-rot, exo's full of dead anoles ,beardies with stumps for feet and no tails. Amoung many other problems/discusting things we've noticed. I wtched a staff member drop a crestie about 4ft pick it up put it in a cricket tub and send a little lad off to buy it. Also if you've got a keen eye you'll notice the colony of house geckos living in the roof etc.
Josh


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

Biffy said:


> the spiders they have marked up as huntsmen are Ancylometes Bogotensis fishing spiders, havent been there for a couple of weeks but the ornamentals they had then where p.regalis.
> 
> i once got a bargain there a nice p.cambrigei it was in a cricket tub when i got to the till the young lady charged me £2.39 instead of the £19.99 as there was a lable still on there from when they had crickets in the tub i quickly paid and walked out:lol2:


Lol I got one of those cambs too dude they were from one of beckys mates eggsacks.  mines now an AF have you noticed a veeery high percentage of the spids they sell are male. only the cambridgei we had turned out female.
Thing I don't get is adam rodger n cathy and nicky all keep reps and the suchlike so I dunno how they can let the stock get into a state. I was at college with nicky n cathy when there were doing the diplomas in animal management.
Josh


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Kinda feels like they don't have the experience where inverts are concerned at least though. 

:bash:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I know the staff at Jap Koi personally and i know they have seen this thread and are doing lots to sort it all out


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

Thank goodness. I'm actually a big fan of the shop, and like the staff a lot. But it kind of feels like raising concerns verbally doesn't fix much. 

Please guys and girls, turn the store around and make your inverts department as awesome as the fishies and reptiles. 

Phil.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm very very pleased to report, following my visit to the Koi centre today, that things are much better! 

Almost all of the spiders have been relabelled with the common and scientific names, the larger specimens look to be mostly in appropriate housing and generally looking much better for the most part! 

 good effort chaps, just a shame you have most of your photosensitive species under such strong lighting, but we can't have everything eh?  after all, it's gonna be bloody hard to sell them in spidery lighting conditions. Lol.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

So bitching and moaning does get you places - sometimes!!


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

Have they stopped using that stupid fish tank thing to store them all in??


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## xjak3yx (Nov 8, 2010)

i saw this aswell everything has been vastly improved...good work whoever told them (me) lol. those guys do actually work hard up there. they just have a lot of stock and LOADS of customers which can be difficult to keep on top of sometimes even when you do have alot of staff

they have to use the fish tank as they do with their young snakes as people could just pick up a tarantula easily if not... wouldnt like a kid to pick up and open a pokie or OBT cage!!!
it doesnt matter, you can still see them through the glass and if your really interested in a spider they will let you see it closer


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

DannyB said:


> Have they stopped using that stupid fish tank thing to store them all in??


Nope, still using that, the poster above did have a point though in that it's handy to stop kids from opening them up etc.

I was pleased to see 

'striped ornamental tarantula' 
turn into 
'Mysore ornamental tarantula - _Poecilotheria striata'_ 

though.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

if i weren't so busy wallpapering today i think i'd have gone and looked too. I do need to make a visit at some point i'm running out of snake food.


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## penda (Jul 22, 2009)

only just seen this , i go over there every now and again (twice a year maybe lol) and i do agree they neglect the invert section but guys . . . . you make this post bitching rather than telling them to their face , someone shows them the post and things improve vastly, i mean could this not have been sorted quicker if told to their face when all of you go in there?

ps nice to see so many people in the st.neots are right near to me, you never quite know how many people there are around you keeping the same sorta stuff as you


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Went in there today and it seems much better  Saw a nice Tap that I was tempted by as well..


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

penda said:


> only just seen this , i go over there every now and again (twice a year maybe lol) and i do agree they neglect the invert section but guys . . . . you make this post bitching rather than telling them to their face , someone shows them the post and things improve vastly, i mean could this not have been sorted quicker if told to their face when all of you go in there?
> 
> ps nice to see so many people in the st.neots are right near to me, you never quite know how many people there are around you keeping the same sorta stuff as you


Except we had to point out that the tree spider was dead, and then the guy tried to tell us it was just moulting (the right way up, all curled up) - it then took them a fair while to actually take a proper look (we noticed it when we first arrived, told them, then had a good look around and fart-arsed trying to find the appropriate sized livefood etc.)

Also, the number of times I've asked the staff there exactly which species a spider was only to be told 'dunno, ask Adam next time you see him' was just getting daft.

So, telling people directly doesn't always work, and we can't rely on the common sense of the staff always as we've been regulars there for two years. 

Still, things have vastly improved now and it seems only as a direct consequence of this thread. Do you still want to reiterate that discussing with the staff directly (which failed) is a better idea than discussing in an open forum (which worked?) :no1:

Not to mention, now people can read that 'yes, there was a problem, but now it's much better!'

Just my opinion. 

P.


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

becky89 said:


> Went in there today and it seems much better  Saw a nice Tap that I was tempted by as well..


Yeah they had two taps, it was the other one which died. 

I was tempted by the H albostriatum (now that I know which sort of 'striped tarantula' it is) but must wait until BTS, we have enough spiders for now!


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

guruphil said:


> Yeah they had two taps, it was the other one which died.
> 
> I was tempted by the H albostriatum (now that I know which sort of 'striped tarantula' it is) but must wait until BTS, we have enough spiders for now!


Aww no  The haplopelma is very nice, they've dropped the price by £10 too :whistling2:


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

becky89 said:


> Me and the OH have noticed they're not great with spiders too. Dean picked up a Haplopelma albostriata from there which they said was Aphonopelma seemani, bit of a difference I think! She also had mites. I picked up a little pruriens, tbh it was an impulse buy and I should have checked it better :blush: The tub it was kept in was way too wet, and the dirt was quite hot to touch. It didn't move properly, but it's moulted since and seems to be okay now.
> 
> They do need to sort out that section tbh. Not having time is no excuse at all, particularly where spiders are concerned. But if you havn't got staff who know how to look after them properly, or who are all scared of them why sell them?
> 
> Overall the shop is good (pricey but what can you do lol), but that section does let them down.


Oh My God! I asked them what the zebra striped tarantula was and they said A seemani!!! I'm *so* glad I knew better than to believe them.

I had assumed that they had sold that one, and the new "striped tarantula" was a different one... Hence it was now marked up as an H. albostriatum,.... 

Perhaps they have only just realised that it was completely NOT the species that they were claiming before

*sighs* Well, the drama is hopefullly over now!


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