# Some interesting articles.



## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

_Bitis gabonica,_ bite report:
http://www.smw.ch/docs/smw/archiv/pdf200x/2001/03/smw-06142.pdf

_Bitis nasicornis,_ bite report: 
http://www.smw.ch/docs/smw/archiv/pdf200x/2008/05/smw-12063.pdf

_Vipera aspis, _bite study:
http://www.smw.ch/docs/smw/archiv/pdf200x/2005/41/smw-11198.pdf

_Naja kaouthia_, three envenomations:
http://www.smw.ch/docs/smw/archiv/pdf200x/2001/2001-15/2001-15-038.pdf


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## m6s0ud (Jul 11, 2011)

Thank you, very useful


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

I would love to hear the story behind the kaouthia bite to the head!

David.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

DavidR said:


> I would love to hear the story behind the kaouthia bite to the head!
> 
> David.


Me too. A bite behind the ear is a little odd. Maybe he was doing the 'kiss of death'? If so, it was pretty close to living upto the name.


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## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

DavidR said:


> I would love to hear the story behind the kaouthia bite to the head!
> 
> David.





coldestblood said:


> Me too. A bite behind the ear is a little odd. Maybe he was doing the 'kiss of death'? If so, it was pretty close to living upto the name.


I too would like to know, he must have been doing something unconvential!


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

The greatest part of the article is that they all survived.

A very good result for modern medicene.


AJ


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

AJ76 said:


> The greatest part of the article is that they all survived.
> 
> A very good result for modern medicene.
> 
> ...


Well said. 

Modern medicene really is something special. Imagine the number of snake bite deaths if everyone relied on the supernatural to make them better?


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

A question : 

Is sexual variance in venom particuarly common? It's mentioned in the B.nasicornis report very briefly.


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## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Vetinari said:


> A question :
> 
> Is sexual variance in venom particularly common? It's mentioned in the B.nasicornis report very briefly.


I don't think it is very common. In the Bitis nasicornis report, i assume it's in reference to a case where the females of a single litter contained an extra protein band. That however could just be explained by individual variation, but it just happen to only effect the females in this case. 

However, i know it has been recorded in Bothrops jararaca and Calloselasma rhodostoma. I believe it could be due to the female being larger in these two instances, thus their diet may differ from that of adult males, creating a difference in venom composition. 

There is also variation with yields, but this is generally attributed to either sex being larger; larger head (larger venom glands); or different diets. This is reported in Bothrops insularis, Notechis scutatus, and Pseudonaja textilis, with there being a difference in yields between the two sexes. 

There may well be other cases but I don't know of any others but hopefully someone else can help out!


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Lord Vetinari said:


> A question :
> 
> Is sexual variance in venom particuarly common? It's mentioned in the B.nasicornis report very briefly.


This is very difficult to answer because snake venoms are hugely variable in any comparison (between: families, genera, species, individuals of a species from different geographic areas, between sexes and even in the same individual over time). As the above comment has stated, there are published examples of specific variation in venom composition between the genders, but it is impossible to say how widespread this phenomenon is. For all I know people have looked at loads of species and not found any specific difference and therefore not published. I think it more likely that this subject hasn't attracted much research interest, so we don't know how common this is.

David.


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## [email protected] (Nov 26, 2011)

Gonna read these, thanks.


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## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

http://biomed.papers.upol.cz/pdfs/bio/2012/02/15.pdf


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

only read the first report so far but abulance technicians administering adrenalin (epinephrine) really ??? is this such a good idea with an envenomation surely pumping venom round the body faster is the last thing ud want ??


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

mikeyb said:


> only read the first report so far but abulance technicians administering adrenalin (epinephrine) really ??? is this such a good idea with an envenomation surely pumping venom round the body faster is the last thing ud want ??


I've not read the report, but if they had to restart the guys heart, that kind of takes precedence.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

just read the cobra one getting bit on the head seem like a bad idea then but i find it odd that the person with the largest swelling and reaction to it was the one the coped best is this due to possible there immune system somehow coping with venom better also i see why adrenaline would be used with antivenom but without it to me just seems like putting ur foot on the gas


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

mikeyb said:


> just read the cobra one getting bit on the head seem like a bad idea then but i find it odd that the person with the largest swelling and reaction to it was the one the coped best is this due to possible there immune system somehow coping with venom better also i see why adrenaline would be used with antivenom but without it to me just seems like putting ur foot on the gas


Its more a case of the strength out-ways the weaknesses.


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> only read the first report so far but abulance technicians administering adrenalin (epinephrine) really ??? is this such a good idea with an envenomation surely pumping venom round the body faster is the last thing ud want ??


Keeping the patient alive in the short term has to be the priority in these situations. Administering epinephrine may sound counter intuitive, but when you consider that high molecular weight venom components are transported through the lymphatic rather than vascular system, and that the bite victim was clearly already suffering the effects of systemic envenoming it seems justifiable to me. I suspect the paramedics had far more medical training than you or I have.

David.


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## longqi (Feb 18, 2011)

When you have the choice of dying because your cardio vascular shut down 
or surviving until your body can fight the venom there is no real choice
Thats why the adrenalin

As soon as you are +30 minutes from a hospital with ICU any cobra bite can be fatal without CPR
A lot of the time now they dont bother with anti venine
Just bung victim into Life Support and wait

We always carry compression bandages
They slow the venom moving through the lymphatic system much more effectively that splints
So regardless of what did the bite I would always use them
Although using compression bandages may result in far more tissue damage
around the bite area, Id rather be alive and worry about creeping necrosis later

14yr old kid died in Java about a month ago
Spitter got him twice on the hand
Ambulance got stuck in traffic

Fisherman found dead in his boat with dead banded krait beside him around same time
Night fishing and probably pulled it on board in the net

So although modern medicine can help
It cant do much if you are too far away

Just in case you think White Lipped pit vipers are not too hot this may be of interest to some of you
http://www.hkmj.org/article_pdfs/hkm0710p392.pdf


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## jnorta76 (Dec 20, 2012)

Log in

Here is a new one i hadn't seen until now. You may have to register


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