# Newbie with no tropical fish experiance



## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi, I have no tropical fish experience so please be gentle with me and my questions.I have just bought a 2nd hand Interpet 64L fish-box complete with pump and heater because i have promised my 2 small sons some tropical fish for a good few months. What i need to know is the basics of what is required now. Is there any special cleaner i need to purchase to clean the tank before filling it, i will obviously buy new gravel, some ornaments for the fish to enjoy and spare filters for the pump and a replacement (spare) heater just in case the one i have got fails on me. Roughly how many fish would be right for this 64L tank as i do not want to overfill it and finally for now any ideas on a certain type of fish (smaller the better) i was thinking tetras, guppies etc etc but obviously you guys will know better. Any advice or help would be very much appreciated....Kind regards Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi Colin,may i ask what filter you have got? This is the third time I have said this but the most important thing is to cycle the tank/filter before adding any fish.This can take from 3 to 6 weeks but will prevent a lot of problems and a lot of work and heartache especialy for your children.You will need a test kit or at the very least some test strips and some houshold ammonia from boots to do the cycle.If you need any help about it do not hesitate to ask.

The amount of fish you can have in the fish box without running into problems is not very many really to be honest but you can have a few.A good filter and water surface agitation is important,especially in a small tank.I own the same tank as one of my tanks


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi Colin,may i ask what filter you have got? This is the third time I have said this but the most important thing is to cycle the tank/filter before adding any fish.This can take from 3 to 6 weeks but will prevent a lot of problems and a lot of work and heartache especialy for your children.You will need a test kit or at the very least some test strips and some houshold ammonia from boots to do the cycle.If you need any help about it do not hesitate to ask.
> 
> The amount of fish you can have in the fish box without running into problems is not very many really to be honest but you can have a few.A good filter and water surface agitation is important,especially in a small tank.I own the same tank as one of my tanks


Thanks for your answer Littlefoot, the filter i have is an Interpet water filter Pf2 which came with the tank, it has recently had both the black and white internal filters changed, sorry thats all i can tell you as i asked about it when i picked the tank up.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Hi & welcome. I'm presuming you're from Wales, where from exactly ? 
I have found that the product in this next link will help to speed up the process of cycling you're filter. 
Evolution Aqua Pure Aquairum

You will need to get yourself some dechlorinator for your water and future changes. A good local fish supplier (LFS for short) wil help guide you. 
My friend has the same tank as you and they binned the filter that came with it and bought a small external filter which has helped maintain a high water quality. 

My next link is a catalogue of fish to look at. I won't recommend fish as everyone has different tastes and requirements but at least you can have a look and get an idea of what you want and then go and checkout the stocks at your lfs. 
http://www.aquaticstoyourdoor.co.uk/Tropical/

If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask, I and everyone else on here are more than willing to help and advise as best we can. 

Speak again soon.


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## herper147 (Feb 7, 2009)

markn said:


> Hi & welcome. I'm presuming you're from Wales, where from exactly ?
> I have found that the product in this next link will help to speed up the process of cycling you're filter.
> Evolution Aqua Pure Aquairum
> 
> ...


hi there is the fish supplier you have said any good?
im also new and have the exact same tank and like the look of some of the things on the site?


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

I havnt bought off them myself yet. My friends have and they strongly recommend them. 4 of us are putting a large order through after Xmas though.


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## herper147 (Feb 7, 2009)

might have to order a few things from them then


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

herper147 said:


> might have to order a few things from them then


sorry to but in but yeah there good have ordered from them a few times and never had a problem


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi Markn and many thanks for taking time out to reply to my thread. Firstly i am from Connahs Quay in Flintshire in the north east corner of Wales. Secondly thanks to your links to the Evolution Aqua Pure Aquairum and the fish supplier. Just to add i forgot to mention that i was given 3 sealed bottles (see below) when i bought the tank, if anyone can give me any ideas if these will help in cycling the tank or keeping the correct levels afterwards...Cheers Colin

GENUINE INTERPET FRESH START NO 1 100ML 
INTERPET FILTER START NO 14 TREATMENT 100ML
TETRA NITRATE MINUS 250ML - TROPICAL AQUARIUM FISH TANK


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

They will be fine. 
You won't need the nitrate remover until the tank is stocked and even then with regular water changes it still shouldn't really be required.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks again Mark, I have not got a testing kit yet which off course will be very important, another member has recommended a Api Freshwater testing kit (£19.49 on a well known auction site). Regarding the Evolution aqua pure aquarium will i still need them now as i have the fresh start and filter start sealed bottles i was given. Sorry for the question Mark but as a novice if i don't ask i will never learn......Cheeers Colin


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

No probs mate. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Anyone that gets cross answering you shouldn't be on here. 
I can't comment on the quality of your filter starter as I've never used it. I only ever recommend things that are tried, tested and trusted by me. 
Yours should be fine though. The test kit thats been recommended is a good one and it's essential. 
Good luck, speak soon and keep the questions coming. 
Mark.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

The API kit is brilliant because it's so simple. Just beware of the dodgy nitrate tests, you have to give them a really good shake before you use them to make sure you get and accurate reading. That's caught me out in the past.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Okay folks i have ordered a api freshwater master test kit and bought some household ammonia as i was passing the local hardware shop earlier. I have thoroughly cleaned my tank with warm water and white vinegar, rinsed it thoroughly and dried it all completely and it looks very clean. The 4 bags of gravel i have bought have been cleaned and left to dry also cleaned the 4 artificial plants ready. So what now folks will i still need to order this (Evolution Aqua Pure Aquairum)...Cheers Colin

Remember i also have these 2 bottles to help me as well if need be 

GENUINE INTERPET FRESH START NO 1 100ML 
INTERPET FILTER START NO 14 TREATMENT 100ML


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Nope. You've already got a filter starter. As long as you follow the fishless cycling advice off the sticky you will be fine. Just keep testing as you go and once everything is ready go get your fish. 
The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that from my own use I found that I was able to stock fish quicker when I combined the filter bacteria products with fishless cycling. If you're in no rush to add fish then save your money. Once your bottle runs out I would consider maybe trying the aqua balls though. They have kept my water pristine and made my tank maintenance a lot easier. 
Have you any thoughts on a stocklist yet ?


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> Have you any thoughts on a stocklist yet ?


No i am thinking a lot about it Mark, it is a 64L tank (minus gravel, ornaments etc etc) we really want small fish which get on well together and a nice collection of colours if possible would be great. Not sure how many we could get in this tank without overcrowding but obviously will add then a few at a time so if i do get problems i will not lose the lot in one go....any ideas would be much appreciated mate...Regards Colin


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Dwarf gouramis can be quite colorful. 
I can't really think at the moment. I will see what I can find.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Could not edit my post but really like the look of Tetras, Small angelfish (i know too big), Rasbora, Platies, Plecos.Would like mollies and Siamese fighting fish but will stick to the easy smaller ones for the time being !!!


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Just had a reply of another forum and the guy recommended these fish for my 64L tank as i mentioned i like the idea of a Siamese fighter and a pleco :-


This is what I would do:-

1 male Fighter
8/10 neon tetra
1 bristlenose plec
4 platies (probs all male, but possibly 1m, 3f)

What do you guys think, i was under the impression the a fighter would attack the neons cause of the brightness of them, off course i may be totally wrong


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

I've never managed to keep Siamese fighters with any tetra. There is a thread on here recently about betas. That might help you more.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

I've never managed to keep Siamese fighters with any tetra. There is a thread on here recently about betas. That might help you more.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Guppies!!

I'm sorry, I'm horribly biased, I love guppies :flrt:

And if you shop around, you can find some of the nicer varieties rather than just black ones or multicoloured splodgy ones! I picked up a stunning little yellow snakeskin in oxford the other day, and some lovely round tailed ones I have no idea of the name of. But they were pinky coloured and very pretty :2thumb:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i would skip the pleco idea, even the small bristlenoses will grow too large for 64L, they will get to 5" or a little more, and have to have driftwood in their diet too, they are also poop machines :lol2: 

i would also skip the betta, just my opinion, but every betta ive had has either fin nipped and attacked other fish, mainly neon tetra, or have been nipped by other fish ive had. 

i would go with a nice mix of single sex platies in different colous, maybe 4-5 of them, and a school of either neon tetra or harlequin rasbora, possibly a group of 5-6 corydorus catfish for the bottom if you really want a bottom cleaner, these will need a sinking food though, and you will still need to gravel vac during the partial water change. you wont need anything to clean the tank of algae, a small clean sponge and 5 mins of elbow grease during your once a week partial water change and you will get far better results. hope this helps.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Christie_ZXR said:


> Guppies!!
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm horribly biased, I love guppies :flrt:
> 
> And if you shop around, you can find some of the nicer varieties rather than just black ones or multicoloured splodgy ones! I picked up a stunning little yellow snakeskin in oxford the other day, and some lovely round tailed ones I have no idea of the name of. But they were pinky coloured and very pretty :2thumb:


Im sure you are talking about endlers.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Cheers guys, i have to admit i do like the idea of Guppies but i also like Siamese fighting fish, keep the ideas coming folks, the more the better :2thumb:


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## Gt Turbo (Feb 9, 2011)

welshviking said:


> Just had a reply of another forum and the guy recommended these fish for my 64L tank as i mentioned i like the idea of a Siamese fighter and a pleco :-
> 
> 
> This is what I would do:-
> ...


I totally agree with goldie about the pleco. I would use the extra cash to purchase some more decor. All the fish you mentioned do like some decor to make them feel safe and secure. Providing caves and areas out of sight will help to make them feel more at home and encourage them to spend more time in the open.

I do disagree with goldie about the single sex platies, especially due to the fact that you have children and of course they , and you as well i think, would be quite fascinated with raising the fry and watching their development. But even as i say this, I must cautionyou that the numbers could get out of hand, especially if the parents aren't particularly predatory. So unless you have a friend or a good LFS who is willing to take them off your hands, then it might be better to leave it out.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

markn said:


> Im sure you are talking about endlers.


The splodgy ones? Quite possibly hybrids. A lot of guppies seem to be now. I've got a hybrid and he really does look like he's one of those horrible dyed fish, but he's defo not.

The ones I picked up this weekend I'm fairly confident aren't hybrids, their tails are too neat. Endlers tails tend to be pointy or wonky! :lol2:

That said, endler hybrids can be quite nice sometimes, but anything guppy-like is nice imo :flrt:


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Gt Turbo said:


> I totally agree with goldie about the pleco. I would use the extra cash to purchase some more decor. All the fish you mentioned do like some decor to make them feel safe and secure. Providing caves and areas out of sight will help to make them feel more at home and encourage them to spend more time in the open.
> 
> I do disagree with goldie about the single sex platies, especially due to the fact that you have children and of course they , and you as well i think, would be quite fascinated with raising the fry and watching their development. But even as i say this, I must cautionyou that the numbers could get out of hand, especially if the parents aren't particularly predatory. So unless you have a friend or a good LFS who is willing to take them off your hands, then it might be better to leave it out.


Thanks for your reply, unfortunately i have not got a friend with tropical fish and as yet i am not too familiar with a good LFS so maybe at the present moment with only a small 64L tank i would probably be better sticking with all male Platies (that's if i decide to go for platies).....Cheers Colin


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

If you like the livebearer idea then swordtails come in a variety of colours too.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Still early days and so far only thinking about what fish i could have but certainly like the ideas i have been given by you kind folk. I am certainly getting mixed reviews about bettas, simply if chancing a betta was going to give me any problems i would rather try another breed of fish. ..Thanks again Colin


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What's the Ph of your water?


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What's the Ph of your water?


Not sure yet mate as waiting for my api testing kit to arrive, infact waiting for everything to arrive (royal mail :censor, as soon as the kit arrives i can test my tap water then i can treat the water and start filling the tank and start the cycling. One question on that (hope this is not a stupid question) but how high do i fill the tank is there a recommended limit to go up so far (eg 20mm from top of tank)....Cheers Colin


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

I always fill my tanks right up to just below the rim of the cover or lid, that way you can't see the water line, and you can't tell that they're not level...

But I'm sure that's not the best advice!! lol


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i do the same, just above the bottom edge of the hood so you cant see the water line, and tell if it is 100% level, plus the light doesnt then bounce of the top of the water and then shine out into the room.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Christie_ZXR said:


> I always fill my tanks right up to just below the rim of the cover or lid, that way you can't see the water line, and you can't tell that they're not level...
> 
> But I'm sure that's not the best advice!! lol


Thanks Christie i though so but just wanted to make sure incase the fish decided to do a Romanian gymnast impression and pirouette out of the tank and commit Harri Kari


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

goldie1212 said:


> i do the same, just above the bottom edge of the hood so you cant see the water line, and tell if it is 100% level, plus the light doesnt then bounce of the top of the water and then shine out into the room.


I'm so glad I'm not the only one!! :lol2:


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

goldie1212 said:


> i do the same, just above the bottom edge of the hood so you cant see the water line, and tell if it is 100% level, plus the light doesnt then bounce of the top of the water and then shine out into the room.


Thanks as well Goldie


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Just out of interest is there a easy way of filling your empty fish-tank full of water without disturbing the gravel/ornaments (i have got a hose pipe if need be), i have read various ways in books and on the net of filling a tank but just wondering how you experienced folks do it....Cheers Colin


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

I have an old buscuit jar, a glass one, and I put that in the tank then pour the water slowly into that. 
You could always rig some sort of set up with your hosepipe attatched to the tap and going injo a jam jar or something then add the dechlorinator once the tank is full.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Christie_ZXR said:


> I have an old buscuit jar, a glass one, and I put that in the tank then pour the water slowly into that.
> You could always rig some sort of set up with your hosepipe attatched to the tap and going injo a jam jar or something then add the dechlorinator once the tank is full.



Sounds very similar to a guy on the rspb forum who uses a plastic jug (instead of a jar) and swears by it, i will try that later cheers Christie


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

You're welcome


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Well thanks to the helpful folk on here (Christie_ZXR) i filled my tank up last night using a hose pipe and a plastic jug, got to say superb virtually no gravel was disturbed. Left the heater on all night and according to my temperature gauge the tank is now at a constant 26 degrees and best of all no leaks :2thumb:. Just added some interpet fresh start and some interpet filter start and as soon as my api test kit arrives will do a water test. I have got a bottle of pure ammonia if need be......Cheers Colin


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Cool. 
You will soon be able to stock up and sit back and enjoy your setup. Just a word of warning , I started with a smaller tank like you and 2.bigger tanks later I still want a bigger one.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> Cool.
> You will soon be able to stock up and sit back and enjoy your setup. Just a word of warning , I started with a smaller tank like you and 2.bigger tanks later I still want a bigger one.


I have already had the tape measure out Mark measuring the lounge :whistling2:, My wife says she thinks the tank looks lovely (and that's with no fish in it)....My plan is working :2thumb:


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Lol. I've just been caught looking at a 350l corner fish tank. You should see the looks she's giving me. I'm hoping Santa manages to get the hints and is able to get me one to setup over Christmas. :whistling2:


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Just a query, cannot test my water yet as Royal Fail are being an absolute nightmare and still have not had my api testing kit yet. Anyway i have noticed the water in my tank had gone very cloudy , the temp is till a steady 26 degrees. Will it be cause i added the interpet fresh start (water treatment) or even cause i added the interpet filter start.....Cheers Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,it is quite normal for it to go cloudy,it will clear in time.You need to feed the bacteria though or it will just die off and you will have to keep starting from scratch.Add a little of the amonia each day.You need the test kit to see whats happening but for now just add a little each day to the tank so that the bacteria have food.I added half a teaspoon of ammonia on the first day to my 64 litre fish box and same second day then a full one on the third day 2 spoonfulls on the fourth and just one most other days depending on test results.I also had 2 anubias in there,a moss ball,an air stone and some bog wood and kept the temp at 27c.

Some days i added less and some days more but that depended on test results but for now add a little each day until you get your test kit.Just to keep the bacteria alive and multiplying.

Just one question,is it pure ammonia you have?Well actualy it is ammonia and water.It doesn't have anything else in it like surfactants does it?Was it from boots?


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,it is quite normal for it to go cloudy,it will clear in time.You need to feed the bacteria though or it will just die off and you will have to keep starting from scratch.Add a little of the amonia each day.You need the test kit to see whats happening but for now just add a little each day to the tank so that the bacteria have food.I added half a teaspoon of ammonia on the first day to my 64 litre fish box and same second day then a full one on the third day 2 spoonfulls on the fourth and just one most other days depending on test results.I also had 2 anubias in there,a moss ball,an air stone and some bog wood and kept the temp at 27c.
> 
> Some days i added less and some days more but that depended on test results but for now add a little each day until you get your test kit.Just to keep the bacteria alive and multiplying.
> 
> Just one question,is it pure ammonia you have?Well actualy it is ammonia and water.It doesn't have anything else in it like surfactants does it?Was it from boots?


Cheers for the reply i have not actually added any pure ammonia only the fresh start water treatment and the interpet filter treatment yesterday (2ml). I have got a bottle of amokleen ammonia (just ammonia and water) they do not do it in boots in my area anymore so this was from a local hardware store. Can I start adding the ammonia straight away and obviously test the water when my test kit finally arrives. Will it be ok to leave the temp at 26 degrees as its been steady there for 48 hours and how much ammonia shall i add to this 64L tank..approx 2.5ml (half a teaspoon as you did)...........Thanks Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,yes you need to start adding ammonia to feed bacteria so it can stay alive and also multiply.I would add 2.5 ml each day for now.

When you open the bottle and when you are using it do not get too close and certainly DO NOT sniff it or you may burn the inside of your nose or worse,so be very carefull !!

26c will be o.k


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,yes you need to start adding ammonia to feed bacteria so it can stay alive and also multiply.I would add 2.5 ml each day for now.
> 
> When you open the bottle and when you are using it do not get too close and certainly DO NOT sniff it or you may burn the inside of your nose or worse,so be very carefull !!
> 
> 26c will be o.k


Cheers littlefoot your help is much appreciated, I have now added 2.5mm of ammonia and will do the same tomorrow and hopefully when (and its a big when) my api test kit finally arrives i will start putting some readings on here.....Thanks again...Colin

p.s Ruddy hell that stuff really smells !!!!


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I hope you didn't sniff it :lol2: I did warn you !


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> I hope you didn't sniff it :lol2: I did warn you !


I did not have to sniff it, i could smell the stench as soon as i opened the bottle....PHEW !!!!!


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Just one question to ask is there any need to leave my pump running 24 hours while cycling, i obviously leave the heater on constantly but i have been turning the pump off at night.....Thanks Colin


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

If by pump, you mean the Interpet PF2, then you need to leave this on 24/7. Leave it off too long and you will end up with a die back of the filtration bacteria, and once/if your aquarium is stocked an ammonia spike during the off time. Not a good idea.

If you are finding it noisy, move it down from the surface a bit so it splashes less. Keep an eye though, as the splashing helps with the gas exchange of CO2 and O2.

Ade


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> If by pump, you mean the Interpet PF2, then you need to leave this on 24/7. Leave it off too long and you will end up with a die back of the filtration bacteria, and once/if your aquarium is stocked an ammonia spike during the off time. Not a good idea.
> 
> If you are finding it noisy, move it down from the surface a bit so it splashes less. Keep an eye though, as the splashing helps with the gas exchange of CO2 and O2.
> 
> Ade


Cheers Wolfenrook, and yes i did mean filter not pump (sorry my limited fish tank knowledge), it was noisy at first but i found a very good place on the tank where it seems to be very quiet, thanks for the advice.....Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes absolutely you must keep it on at all times as wolf said.You also either need a good surface agitation or a good airstone.I prefer a good surface agitation although it can be a bit noisy.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Yes absolutely you must keep it on at all times as wolf said.You also either need a good surface agitation or a good airstone.I prefer a good surface agitation although it can be a bit noisy.


Thanks for the reply littlefoot, The filter is now on constantly and i have just added another 3ml of ammonia, obviously i cannot test the water yet as my test kit has still not arrived but when it does i will get testing. The water is still very cloudy and is constant at 26 degrees, regarding the agitation i have not got a working airstone but my pf2 filter has this on it (Powerful aeration - rocker switch controlled powerful venturi) and i have got it set on max so at least i am getting a little bit. I have actually ordered a twin output pump so i can run the 2 airstones which came with the 2 ornaments i bought so when the pump and 4mm tubing arrives (probably got lost with the test kit) i can at least have 2 airstones operating. Really thats all i can do at the moment until royal fail gets its backside into gear and remembers where i actually live !!!....Cheers Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Sounds like the pf2 can create good surface agitation so i would use that up at the surface.The tank will be cloudy for a while,don't worry about it,it is normal.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Sounds like the pf2 can create good surface agitation so i would use that up at the surface.The tank will be cloudy for a while,don't worry about it,it is normal.


Cheers my 2 young sons (ages 7 & 9) keep asking me when will the tank be ready for fish, all i can say is i am not too sure and i want to get it perfectly right for when we finally add fish they do not die straight away.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I can imagine how much they can't wait to have some fish but it will be a good learning experience for them and will save them the heartache of a very high possibility of their fish dying shortly after buying them.Problem is it will take at least 3 week.At least they have christmas to take their mind off it.They might even forget about it once christmas is here


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Right my api master test kit has finally arrived i have only done 1 test so far i took 5ml of water out of the fishtank and done an ammonia test and added 8 drops of bottle 1 and 8 drops of bottle 2 and the test tube went very green (according to the card 8.0 ppm) not sure if this is good but what other tests do i need to do at this early stage.....Cheers Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi have you already added ammonia today and if so how much?


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi have you already added ammonia today and if so how much?


Not added any today, added for the last 4 days approx 3ml each time. What other tests do i have to do and i think i need to check my tap water but not sure which test to check it with.....Thanks Colin


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

welshviking said:


> Not added any today, added for the last 4 days approx 3ml each time. What other tests do i have to do and i think i need to check my tap water but not sure which test to check it with.....Thanks Colin


Test your Ph.

I wouldn't bother testing anything else for at least a week, it won't be cycled by then so you'll just be wasting fluid.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Test your Ph.
> 
> I wouldn't bother testing anything else for at least a week, it won't be cycled by then so you'll just be wasting fluid.


Cheers Morgan Freeman, That works out well for me as i am away the rest of the week working, Excuse the obvious newbie question but when you say check your Ph do you mean check the Ph of the tap water or the fishtank water....Colin


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

I'd check both. I'd also do a nitrate test on your tapwater too.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> I'd check both. I'd also do a nitrate test on your tapwater too.


Thanks will have a go after my tea...Cheers


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Its nice to see that your trying to get the water right.

Makes a nice change.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

caribe said:


> Its nice to see that your trying to get the water right.
> 
> Makes a nice change.


Well its the 1st testing i have done since my test kit arrived , i want to get this tank cycled perfect ready for the fishes.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Probably did not have to do all these tests but these are the results, i will not be here now till Friday evening to do my next tests due to work.

PH TAP WATER 7.1 PPM
PH FISHTANK 7.6 PPM
AMMONIA FISHTANK 8.0 PPM
NITRATE TAP WATER 7.0 PPM
NITRITE TAP WATER 0.0 PPM
NITRITE FISHTANK 0.0 PPM

I actually enjoyed doing these tests, pity i have not got a clue what they mean !!!! :blush:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

welshviking said:


> Probably did not have to do all these tests but these are the results, i will not be here now till Friday evening to do my next tests due to work.
> 
> PH TAP WATER 7.1 PPM
> PH FISHTANK 7.6 PPM
> ...


Just to note, the Ph is a measure of the acid/alkalinity of your water, 7.0 being neutral. PPM is part per million.

Looks like your tap water already has nitrates in but they're not too high so nothing to worry about IMO.

In a few days or so you'll see the nitrites in the tank begin to rise as the ammonia eating bacteria start to develop.

I never bother testing for a few weeks, but it doesn't hurt and you may find it interesting!


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Just to note, the Ph is a measure of the acid/alkalinity of your water, 7.0 being neutral. PPM is part per million.
> 
> Looks like your tap water already has nitrates in but they're not too high so nothing to worry about IMO.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all your help , i will be back Friday and i will do a test then to see what the reading are....Regards Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi is there anyone that can add a little ammonia tomorrow and Thursday for you ?


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi is there anyone that can add a little ammonia tomorrow and Thursday for you ?


Yes my wife could, i would have thought that would has increased the ammonia reading, but then again i may be totally wrong...how many ml do you suggest........Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I would add 2.5 ml tomorrow tea time and 2.5 ml on Thursday.Also add some more of the bacteria (filter start) before you leave.Especially as you turned your filter off after you added the first lot.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> I would add 2.5 ml tomorrow tea time and 2.5 ml on Thursday.Also add some more of the bacteria (filter start) before you leave.Especially as you turned your filter off after you added the first lot.



Thanks littlefoot, I have left my wife instructions to add the ammonia on Wednesday and Thursday ..Thanks for your advice.....Regards Colin


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Ok I am back from working in Cumbria , my wife put 2.5ml of ammonia in my tank on Wed and Thurs and i added another dose of filter start before i went away on Tuesday morning. The good news is my tank is now crystal clear...Now the not so good news i have just done some tests using my api master kit and these are the latest results

PH FISHTANK 7.3 PPM
AMMONIA FISHTANK 8.0 PPM
NITRITE FISHTANK 0.0 PPM
NITRATE FISHTANK 2.0 PPM


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi and welcome back,I don't use api test kits so really have no idea about them.Don't add any ammonia today or for the next few days and see what it all reads tomorrow and the next day etc.

I recommend getting a couple of live plants and maybe a moss ball(if you want live plants that is).I like annubias as they are extremely hardy and do very well in tanks.Have you got a good agitation going on or an air stone or both?

It might be worth your while getting some test strips to save all that money using api test kit.I know,I know people say they are useless but I have never used anything else and never ever had any problems.I have cycled a few tanks and also kept sensitive fish and now keep and breed bristlenoses.I have never used anything other than King British 6 in 1 Water Test Strips.There is 1 tub of ammonia strips and 1 tub of test strips for everything else.I swear by them.

The only thing worth testing for at the moment is ammonia as ammonia will raise the ph anyway.Don't add any more ammonia now until the reading drops.This may be a day or two or even up to a week depending.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi and welcome back,I don't use api test kits so really have no idea about them.Don't add any ammonia today or for the next few days and see what it all reads tomorrow and the next day etc.
> 
> I recommend getting a couple of live plants and maybe a moss ball(if you want live plants that is).I like annubias as they are extremely hardy and do very well in tanks.Have you got a good agitation going on or an air stone or both?
> 
> ...


Ok cheers for the reply, i have actually just done a 50% water change and stupidly added 2ml of ammonia, i misread the reply on another forum who said do a 50% water change and let the ammonia levels drop then add 3ppm of ammonia (roughly 2ml)...pure amateur !!!..I will now test daily from tomorrow to see how the levels are doing and hopefully the ammonia will start dropping off soon...Thanks Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,there really was no need to do a water change as there are no fish in the tank that the ammonia will affect and the bacteria will start to convert it soon but as long as you used water conditioner before you added it it wont do any harm.All you need to do is be patient lol that is the key.

Doing a 50% water change then adding 2ml of ammonia lol was a bit counter productive but never mind.Don't worry about it.

What you are aiming for is keeping at about 6ppm.There is a sticky on the fishless cycle at the top.8ppm wasn't that much of a big deal to be honest but see what your readings are and go from there.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,there really was no need to do a water change as there are no fish in the tank that the ammonia will affect and the bacteria will start to convert it soon but as long as you used water conditioner before you added it it wont do any harm.All you need to do is be patient lol that is the key.
> 
> Doing a 50% water change then adding 2ml of ammonia lol was a bit counter productive but never mind.Don't worry about it.
> 
> What you are aiming for is keeping at about 6ppm.There is a sticky on the fishless cycle at the top.8ppm wasn't that much of a big deal to be honest but see what your readings are and go from there.


I was a bit puzzled by the water change as well as my water had become as clear as a bell, but i am a newbie and i will listen to advice and do what i can. I will do an test this afternoon and see what the readings are now. Cheers as always for your help Littlefoot....Regards Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi Colin,you should soon start to see readings showing that a cycle has begun.All you need to test at the moment is ammonia.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ok, this might be a bit controversial, but it's based on geniune experience. I have fishless cycled a few filters, and I found that they took an age if you kept ammonia levels higher than 4ppm. As in I had one took 10 weeks, and only actually finally kicked in when I reduced it to 4ppm.

Also, again not to the guide here, once I had the ammonia process sorted, I then reduced the levels I was maintaining to 3ppm. The reason been, no matter how I tried I couldn't get the nitrite part of the cycle to kick in above this. Dropped it to 3ppm, and a week or so later and bam nitrite part kicked in. I came to the conclusion that the bacteria that process nitrite were been killed by the very high levels of ammonia required to keep the ammonia in solution levels higher than this, or at the least inhibited by it.

All that said, I found it faster still to use Biomature rather than household ammonia in the end, and I found 'bactera' type products pretty much a waste of money.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

High nitrates are also said to slow the process down.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Wolfenrook said:


> Ok, this might be a bit controversial, but it's based on geniune experience. I have fishless cycled a few filters, and I found that they took an age if you kept ammonia levels higher than 4ppm. As in I had one took 10 weeks, and only actually finally kicked in when I reduced it to 4ppm.
> 
> Also, again not to the guide here, once I had the ammonia process sorted, I then reduced the levels I was maintaining to 3ppm. The reason been, no matter how I tried I couldn't get the nitrite part of the cycle to kick in above this. Dropped it to 3ppm, and a week or so later and bam nitrite part kicked in. I came to the conclusion that the bacteria that process nitrite were been killed by the very high levels of ammonia required to keep the ammonia in solution levels higher than this, or at the least inhibited by it.
> 
> ...


May well be worth a try


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> Ok, this might be a bit controversial, but it's based on geniune experience. I have fishless cycled a few filters, and I found that they took an age if you kept ammonia levels higher than 4ppm. As in I had one took 10 weeks, and only actually finally kicked in when I reduced it to 4ppm.
> 
> Also, again not to the guide here, once I had the ammonia process sorted, I then reduced the levels I was maintaining to 3ppm. The reason been, no matter how I tried I couldn't get the nitrite part of the cycle to kick in above this. Dropped it to 3ppm, and a week or so later and bam nitrite part kicked in. I came to the conclusion that the bacteria that process nitrite were been killed by the very high levels of ammonia required to keep the ammonia in solution levels higher than this, or at the least inhibited by it.
> 
> ...


That product was actually mentioned to me yesterday by a lfs, he also mentioned tetra safe start which i actually have a sealed bottle which was given to me when i bought the fishtank. I have added no ammonia for 2 days and i will do a test after and see where we are up to


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Here is my latest test results, 50% water change on Friday afternoon and stupidly added 2ml of ammonia, was only going to test for ammonia but did the whole lot as i had the master kit out

PH 7.4 PPM
AMMONIA 8.0 PPM
NITRITE 0.0 PPM
NITRATE 3.0 PPM

Dont know how accurate these Api master test kits.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

That doesn't seem right to me to be honest as it seems to be stuck at 8ppm but i have no idea about those kits as i said.Don't worry about any other readings as ammonia will affect ph etc anyway so no point.The only thing you need to know is if ammonia is dropping and if nitrates are starting to show.Sorry i can't help with that kit though.Maybe if you do another 50% water change and dont add any ammonia this time and then let it all settle and re test tomorrow.There should then definately be a drop in ammonia in your reading.DON'T Forget to add water conditioner


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> That doesn't seem right to me to be honest as it seems to be stuck at 8ppm but i have no idea about those kits as i said.Don't worry about any other readings as ammonia will affect ph etc anyway so no point.The only thing you need to know is if ammonia is dropping and if nitrates are starting to show.Sorry i can't help with that kit though.Maybe if you do another 50% water change and dont add any ammonia this time and then let it all settle and re test tomorrow.There should then definately be a drop in ammonia in your reading.DON'T Forget to add water conditioner


Thanks for your reply, No problem i will do a test tomorrow and if the ammonia is still at 8.0PPM i will do another 50% water change and retest the ammonia, it does seem very strange it has not budged from 8.0PPM and that's why i commented on the api testing kit !!


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

50% water change then add the bacteria in a bottle. 
Do a test, if it's about 4 ppm leave for 24 hours and re test. Let us know the results and we can advise further.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> 50% water change then add the bacteria in a bottle.
> Do a test, if it's about 4 ppm leave for 24 hours and re test. Let us know the results and we can advise further.


Cheers Markn, when you say bacteria in a bottle do you mean the "tetra safe start" i have, if so i will do a 50% change tomorrow and add the safe start and get the results then.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Yes mate. I think that's what the safe start is.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Don't forget to dechlorinate the water first of all with your water conditioner


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Don't forget to dechlorinate the water first of all with your water conditioner


Will do that no problem, i will let you know the results tomorrow afternoon.....Thanks for all your help...Colin


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Well i have just done another ammonia test and it was at least 8.0ppm (very dark green) so i have just completed a 75% water change and as requested added Tetra aqua safe (for the water) and Tetra safe start (bottled bacteria). I will let the temparture rise slightly before i put the heater on and i will do a complete test in a while...Fingers crossed......Cheers Colin


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

The result of my tests after the 75% water change and adding the Tetra safe start are :-

PH 6.8 PPM
AMMONIA 2.0 PPM
NITRITE 0.0 PPM
NITRATE 10 PPM


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

welshviking said:


> The result of my tests after the 75% water change and adding the Tetra safe start are :-
> 
> PH 6.8 PPM
> AMMONIA 2.0 PPM
> ...


I would leave it run for 24 hours now then re test the ammonia. If then it's dropped to 1 or 0 ppm you know the bacteria is starting to work. Let us know then tomorrow the results and we can help more.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> I would leave it run for 24 hours now then re test the ammonia. If then it's dropped to 1 or 0 ppm you know the bacteria is starting to work. Let us know then tomorrow the results and we can help more.


Cheers Markn, I am not an expert but them readings look a lot better to me !!!


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

It will have been the massive waterchange that dropped it so much but if it can cope with 2ppm in 24 hours then your getting somewhere.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

markn said:


> It will have been the massive waterchange that dropped it so much but if it can cope with 2ppm in 24 hours then your getting somewhere.


I will understand this cycle lark one day !!!!, thanks anyway mate, will test again at the same time tomorrow.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,just a note for future water changes.Make sure the water you add is close to or same as the water temp in the tank because adding cold water will kill the bacteria off and obviously when there are fish in you will have to do it so as not to shock and kill the fish.Also make sure you add dechlorinator and mix well before you actually put the water into the tank for the same reasons.You might already know this but just thought i'd say incase you didn't


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,just a note for future water changes.Make sure the water you add is close to or same as the water temp in the tank because adding cold water will kill the bacteria off and obviously when there are fish in you will have to do it so as not to shock and kill the fish.Also make sure you add dechlorinator and mix well before you actually put the water into the tank for the same reasons.You might already know this but just thought i'd say incase you didn't


I did know this but how can you actually do this when you use a hosepipe to fill your tank, is there some tips to fill it this way as my sinks in the kitchen / ultility room are the other side of the house from the lounge and the hosepipe in the garden is a lot nearer and can enter through the french doors. There must be an easy and correct way of filling with a hosepipe...Thanks Colin


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,well as it is only a small tank,i would use a bucket.When i hoover the gravel and do the water change in my 64L it takes 1 bucket full.If i do a major overhaul it takes 1 and a half and at the very very max 2.2 Buckets is about 50% of the water roughly but you wouldn't need to change that amount for 90% of the time.Just get the water up to temp in the bucket and add the declorinator and mix and use a jug to pour it in.I pour it carefully over the filter so as it doesn't make a mess of the gravel but i am sure you will find your own methods.You will need two buckets,one for the water you have prepared to put in and one for emptying the old water out,unless you have another method of emptying 

I use those black buckets but can't remember how much they hold but you probably get the gist lol


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

I have only done 1 test today and it was the ammonia test and it is 1.0PPM


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,if it is down to 1 ppm I would add just 2 drops out of the bottle of ammonia and then give it half an hour and test again


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,if it is down to 1 ppm I would add just 2 drops out of the bottle of ammonia and then give it half an hour and test again



Apologies been Xmas shopping all day so only just seen your reply, when you say 2 drops..(what size ml would a drop be)...Cheers Colin

Ignore that question it is 2ml i need, just read the instructions .......Thanks again


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Just two drips out of the bottle i meant,probably about 1ml.If you added 2 that will be o.k  Let us know what it reads after you gave it half an hour.


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## welshviking (Dec 4, 2011)

Sorry for the delay again !!!, but been sampling the local ciders in the pubs....:cheers:, done my tests approx 30 minutes after adding the bottled ammonia and my latest readings are :-

PH 7.4 PPM
AMMONIA 1.5 PPM (trying to be as accurate as i can)
NITRITE 0.0
NITRATE 2.0

Hope this helps...Regards Colin


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## philo (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi, I would wait a bit longer because ideally you want them both at nil


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Wait a bit longer for what ? He has only just started cycling so it's gonna be more than a bit longer.The nitrites should start to rise next.If it is only at 1.5ppm you need to add more ammonia Colin.Add approx another 3 mls.Don't bother with the other tests all you need to know at the moment is what the ammonia is reading each day.


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