# Pedigree or 'petshop'/private



## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Pros and cons of buying from a recognised breeder over someone knocking than out at home and selling in local paper?

For a 'pet' is the extra money worth it in your eyes to know that they have been born with some care and attention rather than being knocked up at the local park and pups result of an accident.

Any views welcome.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Pros and cons of buying from a recognised breeder over someone knocking than out at home and selling in local paper?
> 
> For a 'pet' is the extra money worth it in your eyes to know that they have been born with some care and attention rather than being knocked up at the local park and pups result of an accident.
> 
> Any views welcome.


If your not looking for a particular breed get yourself down to a rescue centre. 

I wouldn't want to encourage irresponsible breeding (knocked up by accident) for starters. 

If you are looking for a particular breed its good to see the parents and find out if they have been tested against genetic conditions.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

There will always be exceptions to the rule, but the advantage of buying from a recognised breeder is that they know their animals, know the pedigrees and will be breeding to produce good quality, healthy animals, so they will be doing all necessary health tests to avoid genetic problems.

BYB and people breeding from their 'pets' won't be doing these health tests, so you've no idea if you are buying a puppy that has inherited a genetic fault or disease that could shorten its life.

So for me it's recognised breeder all the way!!!


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Another point is without seeing both parents you have no idea of the temperament of the sire dog.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Personally I don't think I could ever buy a dog when there are so many in rescues needing homes. 

Our family dog growing up was a pedigree sheltie though. My parents researched and found a quality breeder through the Kennel Club. If I ever did have my heart set on a particular breed that's the route I'd be taking.

My opinion of backyard breeders is only suitable for 18+ I'm afraid!


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

I'm with the first two posts, if you just want a dog, get a rescue. And also, if you know the breed you want, check the breed rrscues.

If you pick your breed and there are no suitable rescues then buy from a respected breeder who has done the necessary health tests, I think It's worth the money even if its just a pet, you at least know that the parents were tested and your buying a nice example of your chosen breed


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Inho some byb charge as much as pedigree breeders anyway and when weigh up the prospective vets fees from buying a puppy from a byb or pet breeder which hasn't had health tests, you could be setting yourself up for a lot of veterinary expense - but more importantly a lot of heartache!


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Right the kicker...



I want a Staff* so rather breed specific, the biggest problem that there are a million and one out there for sale for various reasons and with various histories. 








*We have just recently lost our 11 year old girl and love the breed, I know another wont replace her but its what we have become acustomed to and adoore.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Staffs are a great dog and there are loads of them in rescues. If you took one from a rescue it will have been assessed as to its character and any problems it might have.

Alternatively you could approach breeders for any that they are looking to rehome. Many years ago the couple next door to us bought a staffie puppy from a 'pet' breeder which sadly died when it was less than a year old. When I went in to see the puppy I told her that my husband's workmate breeds, shows and judges them, so when the puppy died they came to ask us if he had any puppies. He hadn't any puppies for sale, but he'd had a young bitch returned to him by its owner - they took her and she was a fabulous dog!


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

What she said ! Lol unless you want a show dog, when talking about staffies, get one if the hundreds needing a home from the rescues.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

You'll even be able to find very young staffs in rescues. If you don't want a rescue or want a really young pup then go to a proper breeder.


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

feorag said:


> Staffs are a great dog and there are loads of them in rescues. If you took one from a rescue it will have been assessed as to its character and any problems it might have.


I had been toying in my mind what else ticks the boxes and they seem to have everything I wish for and then some, shame they have the rep from bad owners. I can see that some other breeds may take this mantle one day and hopefully leaving the Staff as the true nanny dog they really are.

I'd have to check out the rehoming criteria, please dont take it the wrong way that I'm a tw*t, I understand that they have this for a reason or they would have had a rehome in the first place but often I read it as a bit snobby and you're not good enough to own our dogs...?

We have a house, enclosed garden, someone is always around when the other is at work bar the school runs...but I feel as I'd be made to jump through hoops. Then again, a good breeder should be doing these checks as well????


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Whosthedaddy said:


> I had been toying in my mind what else ticks the boxes and they seem to have everything I wish for and then some, shame they have the rep from bad owners. I can see that some other breeds may take this mantle one day and hopefully leaving the Staff as the true nanny dog they really are.
> 
> I'd have to check out the rehoming criteria, please dont take it the wrong way that I'm a tw*t, I understand that they have this for a reason or they would have had a rehome in the first place but often I read it as a bit snobby and you're not good enough to own our dogs...?
> 
> We have a house, enclosed garden, someone is always around when the other is at work bar the school runs...but I feel as I'd be made to jump through hoops. Then again, a good breeder should be doing these checks as well????



I don't belive the rehoming checks are that strict. They just want the dogs settled and happy. 

Dont think of it as slur on you. Think of it as they want to make sure the dogs second chance is perfectly set up.


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

Depends on the re-homing centre. You've gotta take these places with a pinch of salt. A friend of mine's eldest dog died so she went to the local centre, picked the oldest dog there and offered it a home.

They came round for the check, and failed her because ''she lives in a first floor appartment.''... her RAISED GF flat, is accessed by 5 steps to the front door, and 5 steps out back to a huge garden.

Beggars belief.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Whosthedaddy said:


> We have a house, enclosed garden, someone is always around when the other is at work bar the school runs...but I feel as I'd be made to jump through hoops. Then again, a good breeder should be doing these checks as well????


You're right the breeder should also be doing these checks to make sure you are offering the right home to their puppy and that you are serious about your ownership.

As you've already had a staffy and know the breed I would have thought the checks would be simple and routine checks and you wouldn't have to jump through hoops to be honest.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

In particular with Staffords I wouldn't buy a puppy from a pet or byb.The reason I wouldn't buy is because you have absolutely no idea what they will grow into.Many are huge,lanky or whippety nothing like the smallish athletic terrier they are meant to be.If I was paying good money I would want it to be a good representation of the breed and be health tested.If I was having a rescue then I wouldn't be so particular and would sacrifice the 'ideal' for the satisfaction of giving a second chance to a needy dog.I wouldn't consider anything inbetween a breeder registered with the club and active in the breeds health and welfare and producing dogs to standard or a rescue.


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

sarahc said:


> In particular with Staffords I wouldn't buy a puppy from a pet or byb.The reason I wouldn't buy is because you have absolutely no idea what they will grow into.Many are huge,lanky or whippety nothing like the smallish athletic terrier they are meant to be.If I was paying good money I would want it to be a good representation of the breed and be health tested.If I was having a rescue then I wouldn't be so particular and would sacrifice the 'ideal' for the satisfaction of giving a second chance to a needy dog.I wouldn't consider anything inbetween a breeder registered with the club and active in the breeds health and welfare and producing dogs to standard or a rescue.


Funny enough we were sold Poppy as a Staff and she turned out to be a long legged daft as a brush dog, not until she reached some form of adult hood did we then see that we'd been a little duped. Didn't care as she was what we wanted in the first place and was everything to us even after a long period of unease with chewing, peeing / pooping and crying...!

I was brought up with 'mongrels' or whatever the PC term for them this day is, one was from a rehome and my mum has had 4 rehomed greyhounds. Not adverse to them as I would still have the lions share of choice due to the breed that I'm after but its all based on 3rd party history as opposed to being able to see the environment they were born into and mum / dad temprement.

I suppose the only way to find out is to look, I'm sure if we were to get another they'd (the dog) choose us.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Everyone deserves a well bred pup from health tested parents, weather they want it as only a pet or also plan to do some sort of activity or work with it. I saw one add on a puppy sales website where the breeder said in the add that they dont do any of the breed recomended tests as they only breed pets, so i guess to them it doesnt matter if a dog goes blind, deaf, gets hip or other helath problems as its 'just a pet'. The way i see it all dogs are pets first, and an unhealthy pet isnt a happy pet.

With Staffs there are so many being bred and dumped thare are loads around so you need to make sure you realy check out where your getting one from. 
If you decided to go the rescue route make sure to check out the rescue, some are better than others. You want a rescue that temperments tests there dogs so they know what they are like and what sort of home would suite them, you should also expect to be home checked to make sure that you are that right sort of home. One that reasontly closed by me would let anyone take a dog there and then if you payed them money, they sold an akita what had bitten befor and bitten while at the rescue to a persone with a young child and no experance with that type of dog. Guess what its bitten her a bunch of times. 

If you decide to go to a breeder again make sure you pick a good one, Look for one who KC registers there dogs, Make sure the parents are health tested and that the breeder can prove this (you can also ask the kc if you give them the parents kc names), Staffs should be tested for
DNA tested for L-2-hydroxyglutaric aciduria
DNA tested for Hereditary Cateracts - HSF4
Eye tested for Persistent hyperplastic primary vitreous 
Breeder can also have the whole litter eye tested for Persistent hyperplastic primary vitreous.
 The Kennel Club
As well as health testing you want someone who keeps there dogs as pets not breeding machines, and they should be happy to let you see there dogs and answer any of your questions. A kennel Club Asured breeders list is a good place to start looking. Be prepared for the breeder to aks you lots of questions as a good breeder will want to make sure there pups go to the best homes possible and be prepared to waite as some breeders will have waiting lists for one of there pups.
Kennel Club Assured Breeders for Staffordshire Bull Terrier


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Bearing in mind I don't have a dog and know very little about keeping them as never have etc. so this might be completely unhelpful ... I can't remember where I saw this, possibly the local paper or such like, but Battersea Dogs Home are running an awareness campaign to try and educate Joe Public about staffies as there are so many being handed in to rescue centres. They've got a facebook group going and are encouraging people to get involved, the campaign is called "Staffies. They're softer than you think"

Staffies - Battersea Dogs & Cats Home

There's lots for rehoming there, and they all seem to have a 'cv' online so you can get an idea of how suitable they might be


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I cannot rate this lady (Pat) highly enough and have not known anyone be put down or patronised by her....just never use expressions like"its just a dog" or the like around her lol
Mutts in Distress - Dog Rescue and Animal Shelter
She is in Essex and has a number of staffies listed there needing a nice home.

I have to admit I am a little different from most in that I would want the perfect middle ground for my puppy, I am always a little put off by "assured breeders" as I have met a number who do not have their dogs as pets, but rather have them kennelled in the garden/grounds. I would want my next housepet to have been brought up in a house, with a Mother who lives in a house ful time to learn about living in a home from. Those that tend to enter the scheme, tend to be those that breed a fair amount, maybe not so much as for the love of their dogs.

I wouldn't care if this was their first litter or if they were club members, if their dogs are health checked and their pets that is what I want...but I have never had a dog that was not rescued, I always think the next one will be a puppy, then I see the next one on a rescue site and I just know where my conscience takes me.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Kare said:


> I am always a little put off by "assured breeders" as I have met a number who do not have their dogs as pets, but rather have them kennelled in the garden/grounds. I would want my next housepet to have been brought up in a house, with a Mother who lives in a house ful time to learn about living in a home from. Those that tend to enter the scheme, tend to be those that breed a fair amount, maybe not so much as for the love of their dogs.


The asured breeders i know keep there dogs as pets in the house. My pup came from an asured breeder and all 7 of her dogs live in her house and are there pets first. Im not saying all asured breeders are like my breeder (clearly they arnt if you know of ones who keep there dogs kenneled all the time) but you can say the same for non asured breeders there will be many who dont keep there dogs as pets, but to be on the sceam the dogs must have the health tests done so its a good place to start looking, There are of course many good breeders who for whatever reason have not joined the sceam but are still doing all the health testing.

For the OP I also find champdogs a good place to look up breeders, i found my breeder on there.
Staffordshire Bull Terriers - Champdogs ®


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

PPVallhunds said:


> The asured breeders i know keep there dogs as pets in the house. My pup came from an asured breeder and all 7 of her dogs live in her house and are there pets first. Im not saying all asured breeders are like my breeder (clearly they arnt if you know of ones who keep there dogs kenneled all the time) but you can say the same for non asured breeders there will be many who dont keep there dogs as pets, but to be on the sceam the dogs must have the health tests done so its a good place to start looking, There are of course many good breeders who for whatever reason have not joined the sceam but are still doing all the health testing.
> 
> For the OP I also find champdogs a good place to look up breeders, i found my breeder on there.
> Staffordshire Bull Terriers - Champdogs ®


You are correct, I should not have said "put off" but more, not full Assured they are great breeders, just by that label.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Have to say, I'd go rescue personally purely because there are so many staffies out there that need good homes. 

Battersea I must admit I did find a bit snobby about who took one of their dogs. I understand fully why they do it, but it did irritate me. Reckon we just got unlucky with the home checker and got one who had a bit of a chip on their shoulder, the other staff we spoke to had different attitudes and were a lot nicer. If you can grit your teeth and smile at some of the daft questions you might get asked, I'd say it's worth it for the sake of the dog though


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I wouldn't buy from a big breeder I don't like dogs being caged which is the case 99 percent if the time I'd rather buy from a pup with a family with two good examples of the breed like I just did her bloodlines still full of champs


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

PPVallhunds said:


> The asured breeders i know keep there dogs as pets in the house. My pup came from an asured breeder and all 7 of her dogs live in her house and are there pets first. Im not saying all asured breeders are like my breeder (clearly they arnt if you know of ones who keep there dogs kenneled all the time) but you can say the same for non asured breeders there will be many who dont keep there dogs as pets, but to be on the sceam the dogs must have the health tests done so its a good place to start looking, There are of course many good breeders who for whatever reason have not joined the sceam but are still doing all the health testing.
> 
> For the OP I also find champdogs a good place to look up breeders, i found my breeder on there.
> Staffordshire Bull Terriers - Champdogs ®


I'd just like to add that being labelled an accredited breeder doesn't necessarily make them any better than other good breeders, the only difference is that they've paid the kennel club a fee and the other reputable breeds who already follow the rules refuse to pay extra money for what they already do.

My boss is high up in the Scottish kennel club and has exceptional stock but refuses to pay to be called an accredited breeder when she already does the needed tests etc. Same with our friend who has ridgebacks.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Evilshiddenclaws said:


> I'd just like to add that being labelled an accredited breeder doesn't necessarily make them any better than other good breeders, the only difference is that they've paid the kennel club a fee and the other reputable breeds who already follow the rules refuse to pay extra money for what they already do.
> 
> My boss is high up in the Scottish kennel club and has exceptional stock but refuses to pay to be called an accredited breeder when she already does the needed tests etc. Same with our friend who has ridgebacks.



Are you going tot he SKC show next week? My dogs breeder is over from Ireland with her champion, I was thinking of going over to meet them and watch their dog.


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## bobberbiker (Apr 7, 2010)

depends what your after, a show dog then a registerd breeder as they have good bloodlines and most of them show and you get paperwork, if your after a pet and dont care about paperwork then local paper, backyard breeder etc... some do have papers and some produce show quality dogs dont be put off because they advertise in a paper. i know a few so called backyard breeders who have great dogs, great tempermants, great bloodlines and are very well looked after...most backyard breeders use family pets so they tend to be well kept. as for tempermant i beleive its how you raise the pup not the sire's tempermant...iv seen pups from the same litter who are totally different and were raised by different people. i dont really think there is much difference between pro breeders and backyard breeders dog wise... i had a boxer who was from a registerd breeder...his sire won kruffs best of breed, the breeder is in books, judges shows etc and he was no different to my friends boxer who was from someone local who bred them for cash and didnt take great care of them as he was a drug addict so had no time for the dogs...but the pups were just the same looking, health and tempermant as my dog. it also depends if you want a cross/hybrid as most breeders dont mix breeds... i have a american bandogge....which is a mastiff x american bulldog...its a recognised breed in some countries but its just a crossbreed. i got mine from a so called backyard breeder and she is lovely... granted she bites quite hard but thats because we had her at 6 weeks old she didnt learn bite inhibiton from her mum and my folks said my boxer was the same as a pup he would bite, growl etc the same as she does...and they had him at 12 weeks. she had a full health check from the vet and shes in great health. most people dont buy from backyard breeders as they dont want to support them.... i dont see it that way....if i dont buy someone else will...so id rather have it and give it a good home myself because it could go to anyone and everyone at least i know shes better here. as for rescues...most wont rehome dogs if you have small children....or in some cases any age children. the local shelters i found most were only for rehome if you have a child aged 10+ or teenagers....which is no good for me. and rehoming is no different...or probably worse than buying from the paper....you know the dogs had a hard life, probably beaten etc...it could turn at any second...id never trust a shelter dog with my child unless it was a puppy....which they very rarely get in. if i had no children id rehome from a shelter but thats about it.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

DavieB said:


> Are you going tot he SKC show next week? My dogs breeder is over from Ireland with her champion, I was thinking of going over to meet them and watch their dog.


I will be there on Sunday for the working group, im going to meet up with the dobermann people  I have to work on the Saturday though. What day were you thinking of going?



bobberbiker said:


> depends what your after, a show dog then a registerd breeder as they have good bloodlines and most of them show and you get paperwork, if your after a pet and dont care about paperwork then local paper, backyard breeder etc... some do have papers and some produce show quality dogs dont be put off because they advertise in a paper. i know a few so called backyard breeders who have great dogs, great tempermants, great bloodlines and are very well looked after...most backyard breeders use family pets so they tend to be well kept. as for tempermant i beleive its how you raise the pup not the sire's tempermant...iv seen pups from the same litter who are totally different and were raised by different people. i dont really think there is much difference between pro breeders and backyard breeders dog wise... i had a boxer who was from a registerd breeder...his sire won kruffs best of breed, the breeder is in books, judges shows etc and he was no different to my friends boxer who was from someone local who bred them for cash and didnt take great care of them as he was a drug addict so had no time for the dogs...but the pups were just the same looking, health and tempermant as my dog. it also depends if you want a cross/hybrid as most breeders dont mix breeds... i have a american bandogge....which is a mastiff x american bulldog...its a recognised breed in some countries but its just a crossbreed. i got mine from a so called backyard breeder and she is lovely... granted she bites quite hard but thats because we had her at 6 weeks old she didnt learn bite inhibiton from her mum and my folks said my boxer was the same as a pup he would bite, growl etc the same as she does...and they had him at 12 weeks. she had a full health check from the vet and shes in great health. most people dont buy from backyard breeders as they dont want to support them.... i dont see it that way....if i dont buy someone else will...so id rather have it and give it a good home myself because it could go to anyone and everyone at least i know shes better here. as for rescues...most wont rehome dogs if you have small children....or in some cases any age children. the local shelters i found most were only for rehome if you have a child aged 10+ or teenagers....which is no good for me. and rehoming is no different...or probably worse than buying from the paper....you know the dogs had a hard life, probably beaten etc...it could turn at any second...id never trust a shelter dog with my child unless it was a puppy....which they very rarely get in. if i had no children id rehome from a shelter but thats about it.


I didn't read the full post but from what I did read I totally disagree with buying from just anyone!

There is often nothing wrong with adds in the paper or free advertising sites but people who breed there dog just because they have a nice nature should not be allowed! This is why there are so many abandoned dogs needing homes! And regardless of the parents nature why should they get away with not doing the needed health tests?


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## bobberbiker (Apr 7, 2010)

no the reason theres so many dogs in rescues is because of irrisponsible owners.....not breeders.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

I am getting my staffy from a very nice lady in West Bromwich, she advertised the puppies on Preloved. I went to visit their house (which is over an hour away) to see the puppies. They own both the mother and the father of the puppies which is good to see as I could see how they were. They had small children too so the puppies would be used to noise etc and handling by children (not that I have any kids but still a good thing). They are being cared for very well and will be KC registered I believe - they are pedigree don't know if it is the same thing?

I couldn't go to a rescue, I know what the answer would be, but I know we can care for a dog perfectly well.

Anyway, go with what you think is best!


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Evilshiddenclaws said:


> I will be there on Sunday for the working group, im going to meet up with the dobermann people  I have to work on the Saturday though. What day were you thinking of going?


Would probably be the Sunday as the RBT's are working group too. Although I never knew sunday was working group until I read your post lol. I also don't know if I'm working due to being messed around at work... I'll find out Monday. You taking any of your dogs, I think a dog ticke tis 7 quid so I'll take Yuri if I do go.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

bobberbiker said:


> no the reason theres so many dogs in rescues is because of irrisponsible owners.....not breeders.


I'll give you that one, but I'm sure you knew fine well what i was putting across. If Joe bloggs and his sweet, lovable young Bitch didn't spout out 10 puppies just because his mate had an entire male who was the perfect pet then Rudolf and his brothers and sisters wouldn't end up in the wrong hands in the first place. And the main point I was getting at is why should the responsible breeders have to do all these health tests when people think like you and decide to buy from Mr bloggs down the road because his are slightly cheaper?


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

DavieB said:


> Would probably be the Sunday as the RBT's are working group too. Although I never knew sunday was working group until I read your post lol. I also don't know if I'm working due to being messed around at work... I'll find out Monday. You taking any of your dogs, I think a dog ticke tis 7 quid so I'll take Yuri if I do go.


I don't have any dogs to take at the moment. Just an old gsd I'm fostering, wouldn't be fair to take him along.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

bobberbiker said:


> no the reason theres so many dogs in rescues is because of irrisponsible owners.....not breeders.


Errrr no.... 

You got your pup at 6 weeks from an irresponsible back yard breeder, You have a lot of dog experience and have managed to sort the biting out quite quickly, someone with less experience than you could have bought that dog and not coped with its behaviour. A breeder should be vetting buyers to do the best they can to ensure the dog won;t end up back with them. 

If I can't look after my dog his breeder will take him back, he wont end up in a rescue, can you say the same of your dogs breeder?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

we have a new pup in our house now, after several rescue dogs being with us short term due to various illness etc that have led to their short times with us we decided to be selfish this time and rather than rescue to buy a pup(yes i do feel a bit guilty...) our last dog, a rottie x was with us just 4 months until her health deteriorated to the point we came to the hard decision with the vet that the only fair option was to end her suffering. we knew she wouldnt be with us long, but it was so depressing when we were hoping for so much longer with her, and our 2 daughters have seen a fair few rescues come and go with us as we had taken in various dogs that were either elderly or poorly somehow, and we felt we wanted a long happy life with our next dog. the most depressing part was my 7 year old, when our pup first came home, she said 'i think she will be with us until after christmas, i think shes going to live a long time' which really opened our eyes to how they had been getting attached to the dogs for them to lose them for whatever reasons a few months/years down the line. we told her that this little pup would still be with us when shes off to big school and beyond and thats why we got her,so we can enjoy her for lots of years yet.

we wanted a staff too, which made it even harder not to head to rescue as they are all full of beautiful dogs needing new homes. however, we really didnt want to run the risk of the 'baggage' they could have come home with. we have had dogs come to us with issues, and we have worked through them, but just didnt feel we had it in us to do it again right now. 

so we started looking for pups for sale in our area. we didnt just go for the cheapest/nearest to us,and we werent interested in kc breeders and pegigrees, i contacted a few people about their litters and found one half hours drive from us who owned both parent dogs, so we could see what the pup would likely turn out like, they had young children aged approx 2 and 5 so used to kids and noise, kept indoors with normal house goings on etc. we dont particularly like the short legged 'tanks' of staffies, we ideally wanted a cross breed with something a bit slimmer looking. the litter we got our pup from came from a pure staff dad, and a (apparently) pure staff mum but she was very small and dainty for a staff. both parent dogs were allowed out to meet us, they were happy well behaved dogs. we had the choice of 3 pups, we ended up choosing a tan female as she was calm and cuddly unlike her 2 brothers who were bouncing and yapping. she was the largest of the litter and had been looked over by other potential owners as shes 'just brown' whereas her brothers were tan and white patches and dark brindle.

the people who owned them started using the names people had given the pups from about 4 weeks/5 weeks when they were being reserved,and we visited her a couple of times so we werent total strangers to her. by the time our little pup was 8 weeks old and ready to come home, she was almost house trained, knew her name, great in the car as they had driven them to the vets for regular checks etc, came when called and loved being around the kids. exactly what we were looking for. we wanted a 'family' dog, used to all the comings and goings of a busy house, and a clean slate for us to train how we would like. so far, so good. shes been here 3 weeks and shes doing really well. i dont personally enjoy puppy days, but its so nice to have a healthy energetic happy puppy around the house. i am considering getting her a friend in the future, another staff, once shes spayed etc, and im thinking i may yet rescue her a friend rather than buy another pup. only time will tell.


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## bobberbiker (Apr 7, 2010)

i get the point but its not valid, anyone can buy from a registerd breeder aswell as a backyard breeder so makes no difference as they put dogs out there to anyone....granted some breeders do meet you first etc...but its not hard to act polite to the breeder and be a total [email protected] in real life to get the dog. maybe if breeders didnt charge insane prices people wouldnt use backyard breeders? some people cant afford £800 for a dog...if someone is selling the same breed for £400 then they may be able to afford that. i didnt base mine on price...i wanted a ddb, neo, english mastiff... i wasnt keen on a mixed breed but once i seen the ad and researched them i loved them.


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## bobberbiker (Apr 7, 2010)

ah but if they cant handle the dog they shouldnt have one in the first place. and yes he would have it back.....why? to sell of course and double his money because i can bet he wouldnt refund me. but hed take it back to sell.... im sure almost all would. would your breeder give you your money back?


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

bobberbiker said:


> i get the point but its not valid, anyone can buy from a registerd breeder aswell as a backyard breeder so makes no difference as they put dogs out there to anyone....granted some breeders do meet you first etc...but its not hard to act polite to the breeder and be a total [email protected] in real life to get the dog. maybe if breeders didnt charge insane prices people wouldnt use backyard breeders? some people cant afford £800 for a dog...if someone is selling the same breed for £400 then they may be able to afford that. i didnt base mine on price...i wanted a ddb, neo, english mastiff... i wasnt keen on a mixed breed but once i seen the ad and researched them i loved them.


Surely a health checked, lets say boxer would surely be better at 800 quid than a boxer bred without any checks at 400 quid? Especially knowing the health concerns? The same goes for almost all breeds. Sure you might get lucky and have no issues, or you could have a nightmare. You could have nightmare with a health checked one too but at least you'd know it was bad luck and you'd done what you could to avoid it. 

My dog's just a pet I paid a damn sight more than 800 quid but I'm happy with his stock and the health checks carried out. 

Breeders like the breeder of your dog should not be encouraged if people keep buying their pups they will carry on breeding.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

bobberbiker said:


> ah but if they cant handle the dog they shouldnt have one in the first place. and yes he would have it back.....why? to sell of course and double his money because i can bet he wouldnt refund me. but hed take it back to sell.... im sure almost all would. would your breeder give you your money back?


He didn't even want to keep it until it was 8 or 9 weeks old, Why would he take an older harder to sell dog back? If almost all BYB took dogs back their would be a lot less in rescues...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

bobberbiker said:


> no the reason theres so many dogs in rescues is because of irrisponsible owners.....not breeders.


Do you honestly think this?

You don't think this is because of byb's breeding their dogs willy nilly to any dog available, having accidental matings etc and just sell the puppies to anyone who turns up on their doorstep with the money.

Committee breeders who put a lot of thought and work into their breeding programmes don't just sell to anyone - they make sure their buyers are aware of what they are taking on and are prepared to take back any puppies that need to be rehomed for whatever reason in the future. 

Most of the dogs that end up in rescues are the ones where people have bought a cute puppy on the spur of the moment and haven't been quizzed by the breeders as to how well they know what they are taking on and then when they realise they have taken on more than they could chew they put it in a rescue.


bobberbiker said:


> ah but if they cant handle the dog they shouldnt have one in the first place. and yes he would have it back.....why? to sell of course and double his money because i can bet he wouldnt refund me. but hed take it back to sell.... im sure almost all would. would your breeder give you your money back?


And do you really think he could sell the dog for what he charged you.

I've taken back cats I've bred when, due to unforeseen circumstances the owners have had to rehome them and I've taken them back and given them to good loving homes, so taking back an animal isn't to make twice the money - it's to take responsibility for what you have chosen to bring into the world.


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

Out of the research we did for our Dobe - its the breeders that charged reasonable prices, and the 'part time breeder / whoops we had an accident / my dog has a nice personality so I bred it without doing any checks' breeders who charge ludicrous prices.

I would happily pay £800 for a dog where I have seen the parents / have a generation history with regards to the breeding / at LEAST the minimum required vet checks done / know the dog will fulfill my personal requirements - lord knows we paid a fortune for ours at the time but dont regret a penny.

I wouldn't even consider lining the pocket of someone who has put absolutely no thought into the breeding of their dog / has spent time in carefully selecting the pairing etc.

Go on Gumtree - you see constant pages littered with Jacksh*ts / Jackpoo's / Chugs etc for ludicrous amounts of money, even though they are fundamentally mongrels which will possibly have a lifetime of health issues, often bred by people just to pass the time. 
Go to a dedicated breeder with their head screwed on their shoulders, and you'll find reasonable prices.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I can only reiterate what Davie, Evilhiddenclaws & Feorag have already said.

One point from the thread title that has yet to be commented on is the pet shop part. Never buy a puppy from a pet shop. No responsible breeder would sell their puppies to a pet shop.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Zoo-Man said:


> I can only reiterate what Davie, Evilhiddenclaws & Feorag have already said.
> 
> One point from the thread title that has yet to be commented on is the pet shop part. Never buy a puppy from a pet shop. No responsible breeder would sell their puppies to a pet shop.


I've never ever seen a dog for sale in a petshop. I've seen cats but never a dog. Is that common? SOunds like it would cause terrible socialisation


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

DavieB said:


> I've never ever seen a dog for sale in a petshop. I've seen cats but never a dog. Is that common? SOunds like it would cause terrible socialisation


Harrods sell puppies - Chihuahuas for £3000. Thankfully not that many pet shops sell puppies nowadays, but there are still some that do. Theres 2 in Blackpool that do.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Zoo-Man said:


> Harrods sell puppies - Chihuahuas for £3000. Thankfully not that many pet shops sell puppies nowadays, but there are still some that do. Theres 2 in Blackpool that do.


Do they come with a chanel handbag? £3000!!! are they teacup :lol2: Talk about buying a badge...ooh I got my pup from Harrods Daaahlingg

I bet the blackpool one sells to pissed tourists a lot too. Down to Blackpool for a stag weekend come back with a staffy pup.... I only got a tattoo thankfully and even tahts been coloured over by now.

Look at these questions and ask if your breeder answered them honestly. 

http://www.rbtclub.co.uk/breeding.htm


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

and at least one in leeds.

you get good and bad in both private and kc accredited breeders.....


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## wayakinwolf (Oct 6, 2006)

Evilshiddenclaws said:


> I'm with the first two posts, if you just want a dog, get a rescue. And also, if you know the breed you want, check the breed rrscues.
> 
> If you pick your breed and there are no suitable rescues then buy from a respected breeder who has done the necessary health tests, I think It's worth the money even if its just a pet, you at least know that the parents were tested and your buying a nice example of your chosen breed


 


The breed rescues are a good route, but remember, that most of the dogs that do end up in these rescues are from the puppy farmers in the first place.
Most reputable breeders will either take back any of theirs that cannot be kept, or at the very least will help with the rehoming.
When i bred & showed, i had it as a written condition of sale that "If ever for ANY reason whatsoever the animal couldn`t be kept, that it MUST be returned to me". In 35 years i only ever had back 10 dogs, but had back many owners for another after their first ones had died, & also many new people via word of mouth. I never used to have to advertise & usually had a waiting list.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

wayakinwolf said:


> When i bred & showed, i had it as a written condition of sale that "If ever for ANY reason whatsoever the animal couldn`t be kept, that it MUST be returned to me". In 35 years i only ever had back 10 dogs, but had back many owners for another after their first ones had died, & also many new people via word of mouth. I never used to have to advertise & usually had a waiting list.


that's more or less exactly the same as my experience when breeding cats. I stopped breeding about 6 years ago and I still get people ringing me up to see if I have any kittens because they want another one of mine! :2thumb:


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> Harrods sell puppies - Chihuahuas for £3000. Thankfully not that many pet shops sell puppies nowadays, but there are still some that do. Theres 2 in Blackpool that do.


wow really?? i did not know that. thats quite shocking actually...



wayakinwolf said:


> The breed rescues are a good route, but remember, that most of the dogs that do end up in these rescues are from the puppy farmers in the first place.
> Most reputable breeders will either take back any of theirs that cannot be kept, or at the very least will help with the rehoming.
> When i bred & showed, i had it as a written condition of sale that "If ever for ANY reason whatsoever the animal couldn`t be kept, that it MUST be returned to me". In 35 years i only ever had back 10 dogs, but had back many owners for another after their first ones had died, & also many new people via word of mouth. I never used to have to advertise & usually had a waiting list.


that's true with a couple dogs in the breed rescues, but i meant they could get a rescue dog of their chosen breed if ya know what i mean. 

I think that every person who breeds their pet should take full responsibility for ALL offspring they produce, whether its legit or an 'accident' if this was the case then i wouldn't have to put down so many stray/abandoned dogs! and i might not be so bitter about this subject lol

unfortunately my cat is having an unplanned litter, and it is entirely my fault, well it's technically my OH's fault but we wont go into that but before they go to new homes each one will be micro-chipped in my name and their new owners can then transfer the details! This may have been an accident but i'm more than willing to take full responsibility for it! When i have my dobermann, if i ever breed from her, i will have written contracts just like my boss which states what wayakinwolf has said above.


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## wayakinwolf (Oct 6, 2006)

feorag said:


> that's more or less exactly the same as my experience when breeding cats. I stopped breeding about 6 years ago and I still get people ringing me up to see if I have any kittens because they want another one of mine! :2thumb:


 
Funnily enough, thats about when i had to give it all up due to health issues, & i still get people contacting me for puppies or older adults. I did used to re home my bitches when retired, as they`d fight. However they would go spayed & with NO papers so just a pet only.
I still have two of my oldies, i have my 14 year old & his gt, gt, grandson who is now 9yrs.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

i wish my boss would rehome her retired bitches :whistling2: stubborn nasty bints that they can be, they need to all be separated cos they insist on bashing each other every now and then


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

The breeder I know has to send her dominant bitch to her brothers as she gets upset at the attention the pregnant bitch gets.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

wayakinwolf said:


> I still have two of my oldies, i have my 14 year old & his gt, gt, grandson who is now 9yrs.


Great great grandson? 5 generations and 5 years difference? Wow didn't leave long for any health issues to come to light before pumping out the next generation there :whistling2: I am surprised someone discussing good breeding would be willing to point out this so obviously in their own breeding


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

After we had to return our rescue dog we decided to get a puppy. We'd lost £150 in rehoming fees so we didn't really want to spend too much. 
I looked around at ads online and in the newspapers until I found an ad for mixed breed puppies because we didn't want a full breed, I like people to stop and ask about them and make a fuss of them, it helps with the socialisation. 
It was an accidental litter of 9, it wasn't a case of going to the park and having a random full male having his way with her, the family had a full male and the decided to get a female puppy, they were advised to give her a season before getting her spayed, they kept the dogs apart but they still got to eachother. Their male was bred by the lady's mother and the parents of the female were also known, none of the dogs, puppies or bitches had any health issues. I saw both parents when we visited the puppies at 5 1/2 weeks, the female was a retriever crossed with a white shepherd, she jumped up and gave us all a good lick, she was only a year old so, it wasn't surprising and the male was a big grey, curly haired mixture, he was really calm.

The price wasn't listed on the ad so we found out when we rang the puppies were £100, £120 for the 2 with more colour, mainly to cover the all of the fees (food, vets and possibly the spaying of the female).That price was a complete bonus, after seeing the puppies I would have payed a lot more and after having her living here, she is worth a LOT more than that but, the people weren't too bothered about making a huge profit.If I had the choice I wouldn't have gone to a breeder because I don't want a pedigree dog, it is a lot easier to find a big ball of mystery with people that aren't registered/have had an accidental litter. If there are any issues with MY dog in MY care, its MY responsibility to sort it out not the breeders.
A lot of "Backyard Breeders" will actually take the dogs back, I know that we have that option and we'd get a refund.
Just because the puppies don't come with a load of paperwork doesn't mean they're defective and don't deserve a home.

: victory:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

wayakinwolf said:


> Funnily enough, thats about when i had to give it all up due to health issues, & i still get people contacting me for puppies or older adults. I did used to re home my bitches when retired, as they`d fight. However they would go spayed & with NO papers so just a pet only.
> I still have two of my oldies, i have my 14 year old & his gt, gt, grandson who is now 9yrs.


In my case it was because we didn't have enough room to keep another female kitten! We'd always agreed 10 was our maximum number and when my youngest queen was ready to be spayed we were on No.10! *shrug* It was my own fault because I kept keeping males - can't beat a male neuter as a pet.


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