# Rat roan markings



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I have just had my first planned litter of ratties from a British blue roan and a Black berkshire carrying blue.
I know (I think) that roan is recessive, but does that include the pattern that comes with the roan ie the blaze and wide stripe? So would any of the babies be likely to have a blaze?

Only had a quick glimpse while mum was out pinching my brekkie, and think I spotted some possible hood/bareback mismarked type jobbies. Time will tell I know but was never very good at waiting....!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Aww!!! Little babby jelly beans! :flrt: :flrt: :flrt:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't see any roans in that lot, but if you can get a pic of them lined up (instead of piled), it'd be easier


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm a bit reluctant to fiddle with them just yet, as it's mum's first litter, I don't expect there to be any roans as I don't think dad carries it, but wondered if the babies might show the blaze anyway? Or if that only appeared if the baby was actually roan...?

The mum has been happy with me being around her and coming out for some treats so I might unstack the pile and get better pics in the next couple of days lol!


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

:flrtmg cute i love them all do you have photos of mum n dad would love to see thanks:2thumb:


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

I can see two hoodies cant quite tell with the others


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

This is mum, Noddy:



















This is dad, Jack:


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> I can see two hoodies cant quite tell with the others


Yeah I think I see some coloured heads, just hoping I get a little blazed too....!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You would be able to see the blazes already (especially if they are relatively dark colored).


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I can see hoodies but no blazes. If you can see hoods, you should be able to see blazes on the others if there are any. I'm not very good at genetics, but I'm guessing no roans = no blazes. Unless your berkie boy carries roan, you wont have any blazes in there. Your roan girl must carry hooded. Your others are likely berkies.

I think. :blush:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Is it possible to 'carry' hoooded, or other markings, as I'm almost sure someone told me that markings cannot be 'carried' but only shows in babies if either parent is marked. I could be wrong as it was quite some time ago that I was talking to someone about it.

Dad to these has a russian blue satin rex father and a powder blue bareback mother.

Here's pics of his daughters babies born 22/4....10 blue barebacks..only 2-3 mismarked. So he's a granddad as well now.










Also I've had roan babies from two self parents when one parent carried roan so it can't be recessive can it???


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Nice looking little babies Saxon!

I had another nosy and defo some bareback types in my litter as well as hoods, when shes finished this feed im going to get better pics, shes not bothered me getting her out at all and the way to her heart is via her belly!
Pics to follow.... : victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Well you thank Jack for the bareback!!!

I got barebacks in both litters from him. 

I'll get a pic of 'Peglookeelikee', his daughter, when I have time later.

I love barebacks and especially blue ones. I hope you have some nice BB or PB barebacks in your litter.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Got a few pics:
Looks two be 4 solidish, 4 hood/mismarked, 2 bareback : victory:
No blazes though lol!



















The two bareback babies:


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

:flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt:

im in lurve xoxo


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

RedGex said:


> Got a few pics:
> Looks two be 4 solidish, 4 hood/mismarked, 2 bareback : victory:
> No blazes though lol!
> 
> ...


I would say, unless your doe has hooded in her ancestry, then the ones who 'look' hooded would in fact be over/undermarked bareback. I always get he overmark/undermark thing wrong so I've stated both.
I know Jack has no hooded in his ancestry for at least four gens I dont' know any further back than that though.
Looks like you have some russian blue, british blue and powder blue in there as well but you'll be able to tell better as they age.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

I wanting blaze so they don't roan out? I have a line of badgers going in rexs got a litter at the mo not sure how many will be badgers though


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> I wanting blaze so they don't roan out? I have a line of badgers going in rexs got a litter at the mo not sure how many will be badgers though


I wouldn't mind a couple of badgers if you have any spare?????


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

saxon said:


> I wouldn't mind a couple of badgers if you have any spare?????


will let you know when I know what I have :2thumb:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> will let you know when I know what I have :2thumb:


Thanks.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

saxon said:


> Is it possible to 'carry' hoooded, or other markings, as I'm almost sure someone told me that markings cannot be 'carried' but only shows in babies if either parent is marked. I could be wrong as it was quite some time ago that I was talking to someone about it.Also I've had roan babies from two self parents when one parent carried roan so it can't be recessive can it???


Roan is ro/ro. Non roan is Ro/Ro. Ro/ro makes virtually self, sometimes belly irish. Hooded is hh. Hh is berkshire. HH is self.

Eg. my current litter is a russian pearl self to a black hooded. So HH to hh. We have all berkshires - Hh. If I put them back to each other, I'll get hoodeds (scrummy colours too mmm).

Hawthorn Rat Varieties

Great genetics stuff there.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Roan is ro/ro. Non roan is Ro/Ro. Ro/ro makes virtually self, sometimes belly irish. Hooded is hh. Hh is berkshire. HH is self.
> 
> Eg. my current litter is a russian pearl self to a black hooded. So HH to hh. We have all berkshires - Hh. If I put them back to each other, I'll get hoodeds (scrummy colours too mmm).
> 
> ...


I think I'm having a thick day again!!!!!!

From what you're saying then none roan to none roan would not give roan babies????

If so my rats haven't ready the rules of genetics.......:lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

If Ro/ro was crossed to another Ro/ro, you'd get 25% roans, but the parents wouldn't show the roan gene


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Well I bred a russian blue satin rex to topaz.
This was two years ago.

I got roans so I test mated the RB to a different none roan rat that did not carry roan and got all self.
The topaz gave roan in future litters though.

Also I bred a none roan cinnamon doe to a none roan cinnamon hooded and got one striped roan in the litter!!!!!!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yup... That makes complete sense... The ones that were Ro/ro were blue satin rex, topaz, cinni and cinni hoodie (roan carriers). Whereas the non roan that you mated to the russian blue (who was proven to carry roan in a previous mating) was Ro/Ro (non carrying).


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

So all my russian blues, even though I've never had roan from them again, are therefore roan carriers????

Seems unlikely to me though.

I very rarely get roan from my lines.
The last one was the cinnie striped roan boy before that it was the blue roan from the topaz x russian blue litter. Other than the roans from the topaz lines. Bred together my topaz gave roans in all litters.
The topaz doe bred to the russian blue gave all blue babies none roan.

I stopped breeding the topaz anyway as a couple got tumours at young ages.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It's possible  Carried genes can (and do) hide themselves for several generations. But the get roan in a little both parents have to have the gene.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> It's possible  Carried genes can (and do) hide themselves for several generations. But the get roan in a little both parents have to have the gene.


 
I'll try it out again in the near future.

I've just mated my cinnie doe to a cinnamon berkshire son so that should give roan babies then????


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Should do


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I've just read the rat varieties link, I've reckoned to do it loads of time and not had the time, it would seem that my little cinnie boy will carry for certain as he 'looks' berkshire but hasnt' got the full berkie belly.
His Mum on the other hand has no berkie belly.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

There's a few breeders keep having roan pop up in their litters after many generations. And pearl's another bugger for popping up uninvited, as it needs mink to express, but can be carried in any other colour!:lol2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> There's a few breeders keep having roan pop up in their litters after many generations. And pearl's another bugger for popping up uninvited, as it needs mink to express, but can be carried in any other colour!:lol2:


I'm going to get some pics of my two cinnies because looking on the site they well be cinnamon pearl.

I'm coming to the YRC show in May so I'll bring the buck with me and enter him if I can decide what the begger he is.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I'll be at the new club show in June... It's a pet only show, so it should have a nice feel to it. Will be holding a stall there


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> I'll be at the new club show in June... It's a pet only show, so it should have a nice feel to it. Will be holding a stall there


'New Club' is that the YRC???
If not send me a link and I'll join if it's not too far away.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Will find out the exact details for ya... It's not a YRC show. Basically it's for people who have gotten sick of the politics that run rampant in shows, so will only be for pets and no varieties. They are even doing an OAP bit, which I think is lovely  I know the show is on June 28th and will be held in Radcliffe (if you wanted to come, and needed a place to stay the night, my couch will probably be available... depending on if/when my Dad comes to visit).


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> I wanting blaze so they don't roan out? I have a line of badgers going in rexs got a litter at the mo not sure how many will be badgers though


I'd also be very interested in a badger girl if you have any spare...... don't tell Paul though lol!


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

saxon said:


> I would say, unless your doe has hooded in her ancestry, then the ones who 'look' hooded would in fact be over/undermarked bareback. I always get he overmark/undermark thing wrong so I've stated both.
> I know Jack has no hooded in his ancestry for at least four gens I dont' know any further back than that though.
> Looks like you have some russian blue, british blue and powder blue in there as well but you'll be able to tell better as they age.


You think all 3 types of blue maybe? That would be great, I was assuming the darker ones would be black though?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

RedGex said:


> You think all 3 types of blue maybe? That would be great, I was assuming the darker ones would be black though?


I thought black as well but if your doe carries russian blue you could get russian blue.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I'll be at YRC and the FREC shows as usual. :2thumb:

Every club has politics, including the new one. I personally just dont get involved, hence sticking to the above two : victory:


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

lovely looking babys.
i have just had a litter from a solid cinny x siamese and these babys were a lovely litter of marked babys so i know that both carry roan and they also gave me hoodie babys. i will have to get a photo of them up.
( non of the parents parents where roan but it has passed down the line of each with out showing as it was never put to another roan carryer until now.)


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> lovely looking babys.
> i have just had a litter from a solid cinny x siamese and these babys were a lovely litter of marked babys so i know that both carry roan and they also gave me hoodie babys. i will have to get a photo of them up.
> ( non of the parents parents where roan but it has passed down the line of each with out showing as it was never put to another roan carryer until now.)


A photo would be nice, would that make some himalayan marked babies? Still trying to get to grips with siamese genetics, the way I read it somewhere was it sort of acts co-dom, hetero=himmy, ****=siamese. 

Have to admit I'm pleased with the variety in my ratty's litter! Can't wait to see them grow!


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

i have not a clue how the himmy work as i have not looked into it yet even though i have picked up the other a day a hooded that looks himmy, would be good to know though :O)
do you mind if i put the pics up on your thred of the babys?


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> i have not a clue how the himmy work as i have not looked into it yet even though i have picked up the other a day a hooded that looks himmy, would be good to know though :O)
> do you mind if i put the pics up on your thred of the babys?


No not at all, the more pics the merrier!


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

cool...:2thumb:
well from the pairing i expected to get only agouti solid rats ( well maybe the odd berkshire as the dad does have a white bit on his belly but not on his feet) unless ether of the parents where carrying anything else.
so this is what i expected in the litter....
no suprises.. all agouti :flrt:









but then look at the rest of the litter.....



















i am not sure but the hooded makings may come from the tiny white chest on dad?? but mum and dad both carry roan which was the main supprise.
lovely roan agouti and blacks:flrt:
the litter all together


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Gorgeous litter, a right mix of markings there, defo seem to be some roans, none in my litter so I know dad doesnt carry roan now from some distant relative!

I love the little agouti blazed baby, bottom left of the third pic! He's gorgeous! How old are they in these pics?

Is it possible do you think that the presence of roan can have an effect on whether marked babies are produced? Unless as Saxon says they do just 'carry' marked genes. She assured me before I got Jack that he throws out some barebacks, and its shown again in my litter. Just waiting for some fuzz to confirm colour now!


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

the photos were taken today and they are 1 week old.
the roan gene is not connected to the marked genes ( bareback, hooded ) as far as i am aware but is connected to the berkshire gene but i stand to be corrected.

The reason i think i have the marked (not the roan) is the fact dad has the white on his belly (undermarked berkshire) and mum could be a very light berkshire herself as well as siamese. When i bought her the breeder noticed she was very slightly off white as a baby and this would nearly hide the white feet and belly..

hopefully someone with better rat genetics will help me out and confirm or correct me :2thumb:
the little one is the runt bless her.. she is a roan agouti


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It's easy to mistake a marked siamese for a himilayan. Here's my marked siamese rescue boy, Hiro:

No shading up the back...


















Because he's a mismarked hooded:


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

dont know anything about markings but the babies are so cute !


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

ladyboid said:


> cool...:2thumb:
> well from the pairing i expected to get only agouti solid rats ( well maybe the odd berkshire as the dad does have a white bit on his belly but not on his feet) unless ether of the parents where carrying anything else.
> so this is what i expected in the litter....
> no suprises.. all agouti :flrt:
> ...


 
Love the one in the 3rd photo down on the top of the pile to the left ... looks like a english bull terrier ... awww :flrt:


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## royalpythonlover (Jan 29, 2007)

Oh I just cant wait to see these babies grow, you've got me all excited :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## RCTLisa (Sep 18, 2008)

I can never understand the roan thing :blush:. I had 2 rescue litters back in January and we had 3 hoodies, 1 mismarked blaze and the other 8 were roans. I kept 2 of the boys at 4 months he still has quite a bit of colour:

Kanga @ 4 weeks:









Kanga @ 4 months:









I am sticking with British Blue, Blue Agouti and my Badgers lines - anything outside that become too complicated for me.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Missed that last post - Kanga is very cute!


Got a few quick pics of the babies when I was cleaning them out....


































They're all doing really well.... just going to have to pick which one to keep now!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Some nice mismark bareback..
If you keep the best of those and breed them back again you wil get better markings.

Some of this litter I have are realy nicely marked now they are getting a bit bigger.

One of those black ones almost looks like a capped vari!!!




RedGex said:


> Missed that last post - Kanga is very cute!
> 
> 
> Got a few quick pics of the babies when I was cleaning them out....
> ...


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

they are supa cute :O)


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Mismarked hooded and bareback. Colour comes too far down some of their shoulders/legs to be all bareback.

Capped colour should end behind the ears, I dont spy any capped in there. There's no variety called capped varie - it's either variegated, or capped.

If any have white chins/throats, they could be varie, but they look hooded/bareback to me, and it's a different gene to capped/varie.


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