# Leo ID



## Fallen619 (Feb 15, 2009)

Ok so this little fella only a day old but would appreciate opinions on him/her. Mum is Blizzard And Dad is Normal Het Blizzard.We have had nothin but normals this yr and IMO this is not a normal......what you guys think?????
Cheers

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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Its a very poor picture but from what i can see it has the tell tale signs of the speckled patternless trait associated with the morph whilst young.

Sometimes patterning is seen in young blizzards but due to the yellow colouration at such a young age again i would lean towards patternless, or if you've been very lucky Banana Blizzard (Patternless Blizzard).


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## callumcook (Oct 23, 2008)

i would say blizzard, or as above bananna blizzard


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## Fallen619 (Feb 15, 2009)

yeah my phone aint too good + the little bugger wouldnt stop movin so i couldnt get a gd shot. will try again an get it back on here asap
Cheers for quick reply 
(Fingers crossed for the banana blizzard lol)


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Fallen619 said:


> yeah my phone aint too good + the little bugger wouldnt stop movin so i couldnt get a gd shot. will try again an get it back on here asap
> Cheers for quick reply
> (Fingers crossed for the banana blizzard lol)


Only test breeding would prove that


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## Fallen619 (Feb 15, 2009)

Any idea of best morph to put it with when old enough that would prove it out???


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

A patternless. If no patternless' are produced it's just blizzard.

I'd get another pic first as the parents weren't known to be het patty.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

As Sam says, certainly looks Murphy patternless. The Blizzard is the important bit now. If it is both Blizzard and Murphy patternless you have one rare Leo on your hands. Test breeding is needed to prove it all out though.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Can see it. Not a facebook member, Can anyone post it on.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I reckon murphys patternless aswell. pigglywiggly has proven a banana blizzard this year.


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## Fallen619 (Feb 15, 2009)

Sweeeeeeeeeet
for once i could be the lucky one an not someone else lol


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## Fallen619 (Feb 15, 2009)

Pic Update not sure if this one any better but got the little sod as still as possible:2thumb:
Image042.jpg picture by Fallen619 - Photobucket









Link incase pic dont work


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Fallen619 said:


> Pic Update not sure if this one any better but got the little sod as still as possible:2thumb:
> Image042.jpg picture by Fallen619 - Photobucket
> 
> image
> Link incase pic dont work


100% easy a Patternless :2thumb:.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

nuttybabez said:


> pigglywiggly has proven a banana blizzard this year.


I missed this :gasp:. What was the breeding and What was the full resuult. 
How meny offspring are we baseing this proven Blizzardpatternless on ?.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

he`s a banana blizzard based on that he`s given blizzard babies to a blizzard and patty babies to a patty.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> he`s a banana blizzard based on that he`s given blizzard babies to a blizzard and patty babies to a patty.


Out of how many offspring ?. Do you have a picture of the leo in question. Just coz you it seems to pan out right dosen't mean it is so. If you got a lot of young that panned out right then i'd say so. But if you got only some offspring it's not a strong foundation to base it on.

*Examples.*

Blizzardpatternless X Blizzard = 100%Blizzard HET Patternless.

Blizzardpatternless X Patternless = 100%Patternless HET Blizzard.

*However, If you get a low number of offspring and miss the Normal HET Blizzard,Patternless. *
*you could think you've got a Blizzardpatternless breeder.*

Blizzard HET Patternless X Blizzard = 100%Blizzard Poss-HET Patternless.

Blizzard HET Patternless X Patternless = 50%Patternless HET Blizzard, 50%Normal HET Blizzard,Patternless.

*Or,* 

Patternless HET Blizzard X Patternless = 100%Patternless Poss-HET Blizzard.

Patternless HET Blizzard X Blizzard = 50%Blizzard HET Patterness, 50%Normal HET Blizzard,Patternless.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

But piggly has not had any normal babies at all. The leo was sold to her as a banana blizzard and she was told that it was def murphy patternless blizzard. So she has (rightly) decided to prove him out. Its def not a patternless het blizzard. I suppose it could be blizzard het patternless but she has not hatched a single normal baby from him.

I can't remember exactly what she has hatched. Shes had a load of blizzards, 1 that looks banana blizzard and a couple patternless I think. 1 being mack patternless that you in fact ID'd? I'm not sure exactly how many offspring shes hatched.

The thread about it was on here at the time so you snooze, you lose! MrMike confirmed on the thread at the time that he must be a banana blizzard and his say so is good enough for me, you ain't the only one who knows genetics Gazz, we don't need your say-so for it to be proven!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

> But piggly has not had any normal babies at all


. 

That's my point, That means nothing from one season of a low number of offspring,

People have bred two Snow SPLIT Super snow together, And got *no* Normals or even *no* Super snows before.

People have bred two Normal HET Talbino to Normal HET Talbino and got *no* Talbino offspring.

ETC'ETC'ETC.



> *Its def not a patternless het blizzard*. I suppose it could be blizzard het patternless but she has not hatched a single normal baby from him.


It's interesting you say deffo not Patternless HET Blizzard. From what i recall Blizzardpatternless hatch looking Blizzard, But mature to look Patternless. 



> The thread about it was on here at the time so you snooze, you lose! MrMike confirmed on the thread at the time that he must be a banana blizzard and his say so is good enough for me, you ain't the only one who knows genetics Gazz, we don't need your say-so for it to be proven!


You need to chill a bit, And stop getting irate on other peoples behalf, I'm sure they can reply them self. I said nothing out of order or offensive. I ask a simple question, *How many offspring are we basing this proven Blizzardpatternless on ?.*


If pigglywiggly has somthing like 20'ish offspring, All that they should be then yes it's deffo more likly she has a proven Blizzardpatternless. But if where talking somthing like 6'ish offspring, I would hold off before calling the breeder a Blizzardpatternless ontill it's been through a couple more seasons.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I ain't getting irate. I just can't stand you and your holier than thou attitude - its that simple!

Would love to see pics of your banana blizzard or even a single one of your leos - you do keep leos I assume?


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## Tempestas (Nov 25, 2009)

nuttybabez said:


> I ain't getting irate. I just can't stand you and your holier than thou attitude - its that simple!
> 
> Would love to see pics of your banana blizzard or even a single one of your leos - you do keep leos I assume?


LOL Sorry but Nuttybabez you do need to chill a touch here, Firstly Gazz knows he's genetics and knows what he's on about he's been doing it alot longer than most. Secondly you say MrMikes word is good enough can I just ask how long has Mike been keeping leopard geckos and studying their genetics ? It seems from this thread dated back in 2008 in July where he got his first two leopard geckos http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/newbie-advice/149536-first-time.html and knew nothing about genetics. 

Just because someone owns a different morph doesn't make them god, granted Mike might have an idea on how the genetics work but all that means is he's a text book learner ( No offence Mike it's how most learn to start with ) Keeping any animal doesn't have anything to do with genetics, Genetics is pure science hence why theres genetic specialists ! My cousin's future wife is one of these and she doesn't keep reptiles but knows a damn lot more than most of the people on here ! Infact I would say her and Gazz would get on like a house on fire.

Not a dig at you nutty but you are getting irate with Gazz.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Yeah cos he pees me off. I don't have to explain myself to you, I just can't stand him and its that simple. I wish he would stay well away from me. In fact, yeah, actually I think I will go find the block button then I won't have to read his genetic bull! If hes such a genetic genius, why does he have to re-invent names for things and hes the only one who uses those terms!! I mean, can you imagine going to a breeder or shop and asking for a snow SPLIT supersnow? You would be laughed out! And why do so many people ask for his posts to be translated to english? No point being a genius if no one can understand what you are saying!!


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## Tempestas (Nov 25, 2009)

nuttybabez said:


> Yeah cos he pees me off. I don't have to explain myself to you, I just can't stand him and its that simple. I wish he would stay well away from me. In fact, yeah, actually I think I will go find the block button then I won't have to read his genetic bull! If hes such a genetic genius, why does he have to re-invent names for things and hes the only one who uses those terms!! I mean, can you imagine going to a breeder or shop and asking for a snow SPLIT supersnow? You would be laughed out! And why do so many people ask for his posts to be translated to english? No point being a genius if no one can understand what you are saying!!



Nuttybabez have you ever thought how many people you pee off ? Just an idea. 

How can someone stay well away from you when it's a public forum and he's answering genetic questions ? If he's genetic's are indeed bull like you say then how come I can understand them and other's can also. Granted making it easier to read and using simple terms helps those new comers out but by saying he's genetics are bull then why do people keep asking for Gazz's advice, Einstein wrote E = MC2 and people didn't know what that meant.

I think you would be better off putting Gazz on ignore because in my opinion you come across rather jealous, that is mearly the way your showing yourself. I mean no offence by that so don't worry there.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

nuttybabez said:


> I just can't stand you and your holier than thou attitude - its that simple!


Must be you with the attitude, As your seeing things that aren't there.

When did asking questions become attitude ?.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! You are a great comic!!

And I try not to pee anyone off, if I offend anyone I always apologise and have in fact apologised to Gazz when he has corrected me on something! I don't think Gazz has ever admitted he was wrong with anything, he just finds alternative arguments or disappears! 

And if you look back through the genetics sections, a lot of people ask for Gazz's results to be put in English. And a lot more people don't say anything to his face but will PM me or someone else and ask for it to be explained. But never mind, of course, they must all be stupid cos they can't understand Gazz-speak!

But I will be the bigger person, cos after all this is only the internet and not real life. I'll just block him and then my world will be happy again


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## Tempestas (Nov 25, 2009)

nuttybabez said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! You are a great comic!!
> 
> And I try not to pee anyone off, if I offend anyone I always apologise and have in fact apologised to Gazz when he has corrected me on something! I don't think Gazz has ever admitted he was wrong with anything, he just finds alternative arguments or disappears!
> 
> ...


Are you sure you secretly don't have a thing for Gazz ? I think your true feelings are trying to get out  

If more people were to ask Gazz to explain it he more than likely will what I don't get is you place Mike in higher regard than Gazz when Mike didn't know anything two years ago and only learnt from a text book ( No offence Mike ) 

Either way Gazz know's his genetics and you saying he's genetics bull is in my opinion out of order.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve had a couple of pm`s asking for translations too, thought i was the only one who got those....


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Tempestas said:


> Are you sure you secretly don't have a thing for Gazz ? I think your true feelings are trying to get out
> 
> If more people were to ask Gazz to explain it he more than likely will what I don't get is you place Mike in higher regard than Gazz* when Mike didn't know anything two years ago and only learnt from a text book ( No offence Mike ) *


That is true, however, how do people learn? Now I'm not saying I know more than Gazz (far from it infact), but when is my opinion less valid than someone elses when it is based on the same scientific grounding?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I do not place Mike in higher regard than Gazz and that is not what I said. There are a few people on here who I would listen to and I hold them equally as likely to know what they are on about. But when Gazz identifies one of the offspring as patternless along with other people and after further offspring hatching its then agreed that the leo is likely to be a banana blizzard, why should Gazz's opinion be the only one who is correct? And yet here he is trying to disprove it and being shocked that he did not ok this and therefore he has to argue the toss! And its that attitude that pees people off!

I am sure Gazz does know his genetics - its his terms and way of laying things out that are bull. In my (and several other people going by my PMs) opinion. 

Why can Gazz just decide that the morph names have to all be changed to suit him? He is the only one who uses these terms in the whole leo market - breeders and shops alike. It makes no sense! Maybe I should decide to re-invent all the colours of horses and call them something else then insist I am right? Do you think that would make people think I am a genetics expert and win me loads of friends? PMSL!

ETA - MrMike, thats exactly what I was trying to say!!


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## Salamanda (May 28, 2008)

bit off topic...


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MrMike said:


> That is true, however, how do people learn? Now I'm not saying I know more than Gazz (far from it infact), *but when is my opinion less valid than someone elses* when it is based on the same scientific grounding?


Never, I have asked mike for advice/opinions, And he has asked me for advice/opinion. No one is above anyone else, As someone always knows something someone else dosen't know. For a start Mike is way ahead of me with Black pearls hopfully he'll have lots to tell us:2thumb:.

nuttybabez/pigglywiggly, I to get PM's asking for breeding results. And if someone ask me to clarify i will brake it down for them, Most leave happy with the results with a thanks first time.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

nuttybabez said:


> But when Gazz identifies one of the offspring as patternless along with other people and after further offspring hatching its then agreed that the leo is likely to be a banana blizzard, why should Gazz's opinion be the only one who is correct? And yet here he is trying to disprove it and being shocked that he did not ok this and therefore he has to argue the toss! And its that attitude that pees people off!


Like i said, I asked a simple question. Where's the attitude ?. Not trying to prove anyone wrong or right. My question was,



> Out of how many offspring ?. Do you have a picture of the leo in question. Just coz you it seems to pan out right dosen't mean it is so. If you got a lot of young that panned out right then i'd say so(Is blizzardpatternless). *But* if you got only some offspring it's not a strong foundation to base it on.


So my basic qustion was, If you are basing the leo in question on being a Blizzardpatternless, Only on a small number of offspring. 
I'd breed a couple more seasons, Before laying it down as fact of it being a Blizzardpatternless.


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