# stop live animal skinning in China



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Please don't watch the video if you get upset easily. I don't but was sick to my stomach. It shows an animal being skinned, not only alive, but fully conscious and attempting to bite the man who skins it!!!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:
Welcome to Animal Saviors


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## bassy 1019 (Sep 26, 2006)

have seen that before, its well out of order, should be banned.


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

There are literally no words to describe how horrific those videos are, how barbaric. If you have to skin an animal - and I see no reason AT ALL why you should want to or need to - surely there is a humane way to do it without ripping its skin off while it still lives. 

I can't believe ANY country can see this as acceptable in any way at all.

Makes me ashamed to be a human being sometimes, that we can do these sort of things, to any other living creature.


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

What exactly is the point of that?

Crazy!

:bash:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> What exactly is the point of that?
> 
> Crazy!
> 
> :bash:


I haven't watched the video, but I think the reason they do it is that the flavour of the meat is supposed to have a better flavour if the animal is terrorised before they slaughter it. Something to do with adrenalin I think.

When you read around the subject, eating dog meat is a dying tradition in China and this practice is something that only goes on in the older parts and by the older generation. We can only pray that this practice dies with the old feckers!

There is a lot of work going on out there to teach people to see dogs as the beautiful, amazing, loyal and useful animals that we see them as.
This is one of the reasons I wont ever give my dogs those munchy dog chews made in Thailand - god knows whats in them!


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

:gasp:





omg im speachless.. i couldnt watch the whole thing i was going to be sick...they could at least shoot them is it so much to f:censor: ask!?


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## BigA (Mar 19, 2009)

That is f:censor:ing sick, dirty c:censor:t. How would he like it if someone done that to him, what a w:censor:ker.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

I didn`t open it..i`ve seen something similar a few years ago and i still can`t get the images or the screams of pain out of my head. Totally barbaric..there are no words harsh enough to describe these people..i can only hope that karma exists.


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

Evie said:


> I haven't watched the video, but I think the reason they do it is that the flavour of the meat is supposed to have a better flavour if the animal is terrorised before they slaughter it. Something to do with adrenalin I think.
> 
> When you read around the subject, eating dog meat is a dying tradition in China and this practice is something that only goes on in the older parts and by the older generation. We can only pray that this practice dies with the old feckers!
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm i have to say, as a chef, meat that is nice and relaxed before slaughter is the best. A tense animal can give tough meat. I find different cultures and their attitudes to various food quite intersting. 

I just really cant see a reason behind this practice. 

Thankfully, as you say, it is a dying practice.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

couldnt watch it all i really dont know what to say


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Ive just been physically sick and am in a flood of tears, Ive seen videos of animals being skinned before but never while alive and although im aware that it goes on i feel powerless to what i can do.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> What exactly is the point of that?
> 
> Crazy!
> 
> :bash:


 The point is, every cat toy made in china from fur, is from an animal such as that, usually it is cat fur on the toys. Educate yourselves about this sort of thing, boycott anything doubtful and email a compaint to the chinese embassy asking them to tighten up their laws.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

ive seen a few videos, and I cant lose the images of them.

as FW says, educate yourselves


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> The point is, every cat toy made in china from fur, is from an animal such as that, usually it is cat fur on the toys. Educate yourselves about this sort of thing, boycott anything doubtful and email a compaint to the chinese embassy asking them to tighten up their laws.


I had no idea they did that with fur!

I dont really understand what possible benefit there is to skinning a live animal as opposed to a dead one - not that i am condoning it in any way. Just cant get my head around it.

I dont really think my e-mailing china will have any effect though - sad though that is.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

Often pet products bought here with fake fur, is not as fake as you think. Dog/cat fur can be bought in and sold as arctic wolf


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

Kerriebaby said:


> Often pet products bought here with fake fur, is not as fake as you think. Dog/cat fur can be bought in and sold as arctic wolf


Who buys arctic wolf?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> Who buys arctic wolf?


Jennifer Lopez :whistling2:
Quite happily flaunts her fat arse around with whatever fur the silly b*t*h desires


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> The point is, every cat toy made in china from fur, is from an animal such as that, usually it is cat fur on the toys. Educate yourselves about this sort of thing, boycott anything doubtful and email a compaint to the chinese embassy asking them to tighten up their laws.


fenwoman
While your doing the education bit, have a read of this web site
"Snuff" Films A lot of these movies aren't what they appear to be. 
I know it's a bit long winded but it is an eye opener.

Natrix


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)




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## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

I wont watch that as well, i dont want to especially after seeing how the chinese prepare their fish.

Still alive when all their scales are taken off

Still alive when fins are removed

And still alive when placed in a frying pan


People say fish have no feelings but if they see that and the way the fish struggles for its life, they might think again.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Evie said:


> I haven't watched the video, but I think the reason they do it is that the flavour of the meat is supposed to have a better flavour if the animal is terrorised before they slaughter it. Something to do with adrenalin I think.
> 
> When you read around the subject, eating dog meat is a dying tradition in China and this practice is something that only goes on in the older parts and by the older generation. We can only pray that this practice dies with the old feckers!
> 
> ...


Dogs used for meat are often subject to slow painful deaths as some Thaiwanese people believe that this produces a greater aphrodisiac effect on the meat.


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## GeckoLass (Nov 15, 2007)

I dont think i can watch it , by what everyone is saying its upsetting and i wont sleep for anger. Poor poor animals , i hope its banned real soon.:war:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

not gonna watch it, but i've seen videos of live snakes being skinned in eastern resturaunts and live fish as Matt said


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

The veitnamese appretently blive a stressed animal tatses better so they blow torch them before slaughtering thm. Thats what i was told by a science teacher.


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh well.

Different strokes for different folks.

If these are their beliefs/cultures then who are we to judge really?

(hides and waits to get flamed)


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> Oh well.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> ...


 

I agree


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

ferretman said:


> The veitnamese appretently blive a stressed animal tatses better so they blow torch them before slaughtering thm. Thats what i was told by a science teacher.


 
yeah, we sure got them used to napalm... nothing like a napalm-cooked water buffalo... steamed till tender in a rice paddy... i guess bar-be-que caught on there after we left....?:lol2:


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

HABU said:


> yeah, we sure got them used to napalm... nothing like a napalm-cooked water buffalo... steamed till tender in a rice paddy... i guess bar-be-que caught on there after we left....?:lol2:


 That made me spit my drink out all over the screen lmao


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> Oh well.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> ...


Well personally i feel that teh welfare * wellbeing of an animal is far more important than respecting another countries beliefs! If these countries treat animals like this, they need educating!


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Well personally i feel that teh welfare * wellbeing of an animal is far more important than respecting another countries beliefs! If these countries treat animals like this, they need educating!


 
How can u edcate a culture thats had these beliefs for 100's of years.


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

ferretman said:


> I agree


Crikey! Theres room behind this hedge for 2 if you want to hide with me!

:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Its like Spain - I will never visit that country! I would not support a country that has such blatant disregard for bulls & goats & dogs. Certainly a very cruel country who should be boycotted & made to see that such an advanced member of the EU should jump forward into the 21st century & drop their vile mistreatment of animals!


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Its like Spain - I will never visit that country! I would not support a country that has such blatant disregard for bulls & goats & dogs. Certainly a very cruel country who should be boycotted & made to see that such an advanced member of the EU should jump forward into the 21st century & drop their vile mistreatment of animals!


You're not going to have many places to visit.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

ferretman said:


> How can u edcate a culture thats had these beliefs for 100's of years.


Nature charities are out in the African jungles educating the native people about the plight of the many primates that are highly threatened by the bush meat trade & the natives are slowly starting to turn their ways. Prime example!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

KoopaTheBoa said:


> You're not going to have many places to visit.


Well if a country finds it acceptable to torment bulls to their death, to spear them & attach fireworks to them, to have hundreds of men harrass them to the point that they can die from the stress, all in the name of sport....... & to throw live goats from church towers, then I will gladly boycott that place.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

Thats africa am i right in thinking the middle east hates the west so i wouldnt see them takeing to kindly to us forceing our opioion on them.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

it's their thing!


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

ferretman said:


> Thats africa am i right in thinking the middle east hates the west so i wouldnt see them takeing to kindly to us forceing our opioion on them.


I think its the west hating the middle east too sometimes.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

If memory serves me correct, it is actually illegal to torture & eat dogs in Thaiwan, but that law is just not enforced


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## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Its like Spain - I will never visit that country! I would not support a country that has such blatant disregard for bulls & goats & dogs. Certainly a very cruel country who should be boycotted & made to see that such an advanced member of the EU should jump forward into the 21st century & drop their vile mistreatment of animals!


You would be amazed at how poorly ALOT of animals are treated in this country... with relatively leniant laws against it.

So you shouldnt live here also?


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

But how can we complain when kfc still fry the chicken we all detest and h8. I think before we start talking about sorting out other countries out we need to look at our own.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

sandmatt said:


> You would be amazed at how poorly ALOT of animals are treated in this country... with relatively leniant laws against it.
> 
> So you shouldnt live here also?


Last I heard, it wasn't legal to go around abusing animals with such violence in this country!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

ferretman said:


> But how can we complain when kfc still fry the chicken we all detest and h8. I think before we start talking about sorting out other countries out we need to look at our own.


Why do you detest & hate chicken? :lol2:


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## KoopaTheBoa (Mar 4, 2009)

ferretman said:


> But how can we complain when kfc still fry the chicken we all detest and h8. I think before we start talking about sorting out other countries out we need to look at our own.


But we also cant have it both ways.

You cant have cheap chicken and free range happy chicken.

Doesnt work like that - just like we cant stomp into other countries and impose our morals or beliefs on them (although it doesnt seem to stop us) just as we wouldnt want them doing it to us.

Every one is against fox hunting and it got banned. But i bet if spain showed up and said 'right you lot - pack it in' we'd all feel much differently.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

I just ment the chicken for kfc and how they produce sorry lol


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

ferretman said:


> I just ment the chicken for kfc and how they produce sorry lol


Ah right, yes, horrid ex-battery hens!


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

Tell me about it used to take them in dont now i just buy eggs orgnacally stright from the farm way easier.


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

all because is cheaper this is why i hate money :bash: those things in the video are not people they are to be classed with scum ithis video makes me ashamed to be human


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

This isnt as widely done as they would like you to think. Yes its nasty and should be stopped but this is china and they dont even care about the people there let alone the animals. We have to buy food and fur from elsewhere, like Saga furs who follow a strict raising, keeping and killing of animals of fur and the "remains" are used also. 

But TBH, its the same pics and video Peta have been using for years and their explanations for stamping on animals and skinning them alive make no sense, the animal would squirm and ruin the pelt and stamping would also make the pelt ruined. I mean they wouldn't let cameras into a farm that even did that.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

I think it would be better to let people breed for fur in this country. Then it could be strictly regulated and people wouldn't have to outsource to china. I dont see why its even banned and MASS farming for food is still fine. It confuses me.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

Its china though an they have a law all un to their own  

so to them what we think is cruel is norm to them


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

this is :censor: horrible !!

i have just seen this and i was almost sick and turned the video off !!

i just dont understand how someone could do this :bash:

trust me i would of beat the :censor: out of him if i was there and got his skin off him to see how he liked it ...

uuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggg !!! this makes me sooo mad !


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> this is :censor: horrible !!
> 
> i have just seen this and i was almost sick and turned the video off !!
> 
> ...


cos so sad but true but its the norm in china an how they make their money 

they have all different laws on animals there an they mean pretty much nada 

so would take more than a petition to do something about it 

sad but true


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

Xotics_Freak said:


> cos so sad but true but its the norm in china an how they make their money
> 
> they have all different laws on animals there an they mean pretty much nada
> 
> ...


it just made me soo angry... :bash:

if i would have kept it on longer i think i would of cried .


I now offically hate CHINA !!!
:lol2:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Most fur farms in china wont skin alive. And cat and dog fur? Anyone who brought fox fur and got cat fur would know straight away it wasn't right. Also when PETA refer to Dog fur being used, they are talking about a Raccoon dog, which is a wild animal. They tend to leave the Raccoon off as it dosn't make as big of impact to people emotionaly.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> it just made me soo angry... :bash:
> 
> if i would have kept it on longer i think i would of cried .
> 
> ...


Yeah but how many cheap things do you buy? Clothes? electronics? Etc, they wouldnt be so cheap if it wasn't for places like china. Are you going to go and throw all that away and never buy anything from there again?


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> it just made me soo angry... :bash:
> 
> if i would have kept it on longer i think i would of cried .
> 
> ...





Love_snakes said:


> Yeah but how many cheap things do you buy? Clothes? electronics? Etc, they wouldnt be so cheap if it wasn't for places like china. Are you going to go and throw all that away and never buy anything from there again?


 
i do have to agree on this 

but have to disagree on the other cos if they dint skin live then these vids wouldnt still be about 

an they are..............


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Xotics_Freak said:


> i do have to agree on this
> 
> but have to disagree on the other cos if they dint skin live then these vids wouldnt still be about
> 
> an they are..............


These are the same videos that have been around for decades. They are come up with no new vids or evidence in ages. Its there for its shock value and it works. In the west we value our pets like members of the family, and it hits us hard. Im not saying it doesnt happen, but they make it sound like every single thing they make is pet cat fur. Cat could mean anything, there are plenty of wild cats that are used for their meat and fur.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> These are the same videos that have been around for decades. They are come up with no new vids or evidence in ages. Its there for its shock value and it works. In the west we value our pets like members of the family, and it hits us hard. Im not saying it doesnt happen, but they make it sound like every single thing they make is pet cat fur. Cat could mean anything, there are plenty of wild cats that are used for their meat and fur.


 
ok cool if you say so calm down : victory:


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

ok i do buy stuff from china but there stupid little :censor: for ever doing that..

when i saw al of those dogs in the cages waiting to be skinned it made me soo sad..


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Xotics_Freak said:


> ok cool if you say so calm down : victory:


lol im not even angry or anything, I was just saying. Im as cool as a cucumber


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> ok i do buy stuff from china but there stupid little :censor: for ever doing that..
> 
> when i saw al of those dogs in the cages waiting to be skinned it made me soo sad..


It is upsetting but thats what they are there for. Although chickens and other animals are kept in tiny cages packed together in this country also so we shouldn't forget about them.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

HABU said:


>


 
im not laffin im not :whistling2::lol2:


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> It is upsetting but thats what they are there for. Although chickens and other animals are kept in tiny cages packed together in this country also so we shouldn't forget about them.


animals all over the world are kept like shite some even not for certain purposes an its sickening but hey what can you do ?


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Xotics_Freak said:


> animals all over the world are kept like shite some even not for certain purposes an its sickening but hey what can you do ?


Thats not the way to think. Things as simple as buying free range meat and eggs, milk etc (which sometimes are cheaper) can help show support. We should set the example for the world and get rid of battery farmed animals etc.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> Thats not the way to think. Things as simple as buying free range meat and eggs, milk etc (which sometimes are cheaper) can help show support. We should set the example for the world and get rid of battery farmed animals etc.


no but if we think that then the suffering of the ones we dont think about is forgotten lol

its a major catch 22 when it comes to something like this 

thats all im tryin to point out


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

maybe i'll go deer hunting this winter.... get me a couple... but i'll need a big deep freezer... and i'd have to have it butchered properly... 

that's the green thing anymore...


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

HABU said:


> maybe i'll go deer hunting this winter.... get me a couple... but i'll need a big deep freezer... and i'd have to have it butchered properly...
> 
> that's the green thing anymore...


 
one shot in the head so no pain ! :2thumb:

and the animal will not go to waste ??

food ??


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

HABU said:


> maybe i'll go deer hunting this winter.... get me a couple... but i'll need a big deep freezer... and i'd have to have it butchered properly...
> 
> that's the green thing anymore...


 
ooooooooo can you post me some ?:lol2:

OMG im jokin at that too lol


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> one shot in the head so no pain ! :2thumb:
> 
> and the animal will not go to waste ??
> 
> food ??


 
yeah an a damn good feed lol


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Xotics_Freak said:


> no but if we think that then the suffering of the ones we dont think about is forgotten lol
> 
> its a major catch 22 when it comes to something like this
> 
> thats all im tryin to point out


Yeah but we can look after our own and care about others to. We could not care about ours and do nothing for either. Although when it comes to skinning animals alive. Its not as big as everyone is making out so thats good.



HABU said:


> maybe i'll go deer hunting this winter.... get me a couple... but i'll need a big deep freezer... and i'd have to have it butchered properly...
> 
> that's the green thing anymore...


Cool, do you hunt? Do you eat what you kill? Do you use the pelt to make rugs and stuff?

I think hunting gets a bad name, I mean, its better than the way animals are kept for food these days.


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## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

The world will die soon and all problems will be resolved: victory:


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

Xotics_Freak said:


> yeah an a damn good feed lol


cut it up and cook it ..

some chips.. gravy..

all sorted....


or maybe hes big enough to swallow whole ??

how much do you weigh ??


almost breeding size ???


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> one shot in the head so no pain ! :2thumb:
> 
> and the animal will not go to waste ??
> 
> food ??


Most of the fur thats made is the same, one shot in the head, skin it, meat goes to animal (or human) food and the process starts again.



Xotics_Freak said:


> ooooooooo can you post me some ?:lol2:
> 
> OMG im jokin at that too lol


I know you were joking but you can get your local butcher to order you different meats in you know. Kangaroo, Zebra, croc etc you would be suprised of the selection if you just ask.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> cut it up and cook it ..
> 
> some chips.. gravy..
> 
> ...


 
i weigh about 6 an half stone so not much meat on me lol 

but hey add onions to the gravy an mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> Most of the fur thats made is the same, one shot in the head, skin it, meat goes to animal (or human) food and the process starts again.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you were joking but you can get your local butcher to order you different meats in you know. Kangaroo, Zebra, croc etc you would be suprised of the selection if you just ask.


i know but i dont each much meat anyways my own choice cos im too lazy too chew lol not that im a veggie or owt lol


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

Xotics_Freak said:


> i weigh about 6 an half stone so not much meat on me lol
> 
> but hey add onions to the gravy an mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


 
i wasnt talking about eating u !!

i was refering to habu!!


i was saying habu could eat it whole like a snake :lol2:


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> i wasnt talking about eating u !!
> 
> i was refering to habu!!
> 
> ...


 
LOL well thank bloomin god for that :2thumb::lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Love_snakes said:


> Yeah but we can look after our own and care about others to. We could not care about ours and do nothing for either. Although when it comes to skinning animals alive. Its not as big as everyone is making out so thats good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

i used to hunt... years ago. but i don't currently...

hunting is for food... i wouldn't enjoy it... i wouldn't take pictures or mount the antlers of a big buck...

that would bother me. hunting wouldn't bother me if that was how it needed to be... if it's for food... if a death can ensure life, then i have no problem with hunting, it honors the animal...


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## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

Xotics_Freak said:


> LOL well thank bloomin god for that :2thumb::lol2:


 
:lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## Zoee (Jan 30, 2009)

I can usually watch animals being slaughted in a humane way its a part of life and you just have to deal with it, but watching that video has made me feel sick, its desgusting how they treat animals.
Its even worse if it was staged to get more people to support the cause, the very people protesting and campaigning to get the right treatment for them.

Must be very sick and twisted to be able to skin an animal alive.


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## lel-hen (Aug 3, 2009)

:war: people that can do that need shot.


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

This video has made me speechless, feeling sick and disgusted. Dogs being picked up and slammed against the floor crushing their skulls yet still fully conscious. I dont care what anyone says they should have each limb of there body torn off for anyone that wants to behave like that towards other animals or humans. Torture them and give them twice as much pain as those poor animals went through. Things like this make me wish us as a human race didnt exist. Absolutely horrific.


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## PSYCHOSIS (Sep 23, 2008)

I watched that vid , what can i say but I feal real sorrow for the dogs and cats that have to go throu that  Every one just join that Petition , i did and im geting all my mates and famly to as well , Because That was just sick ......  It makes me so angry :cussing: In my words they are just godless people . If they can do that to animals they could do that to humans as well . ?


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

I would suggest those who do want fur, would avoid chinese fur anyway, as you get can better qulaity for cheaper from Canada, the US, and places around Europe and its not on such a mass scale production. 

I have links if anyone is interested, just PM me.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

Do you know what tho, as someone has already said. We as a nation cant go and tell China et all about what they should shouldnt be doing, when we still ahve battery farms ( chickens on Hugh's thing ) how many people here buy cheap meat ( 3 for £10 in Tesco ) how well do you think those animals were treated? we still have puppy farms up and down the country, we had to have our Animal act re done not so long ago....there was a reason for that! We also have cases like baby P, hardly role models, neither is the US ( Rodeos anyone? Puppy Farms in Amish ( dogs "debarked" using a broom handle" de clawing of cats still legal ) 

I know someone who works for one of the charities out in the far east, helping to re educate the population. Yes, dog / cat meat is dying out, simply because it is an old tradtion, the new generation are understanding that there is no need for it.

If you really want to help these dogs/cats, then as I said before educate yourself.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Kerriebaby said:


> Do you know what tho, as someone has already said. We as a nation cant go and tell China et all about what they should shouldnt be doing, when we still ahve battery farms ( chickens on Hugh's thing ) how many people here buy cheap meat ( 3 for £10 in Tesco ) how well do you think those animals were treated? we still have puppy farms up and down the country, we had to have our Animal act re done not so long ago....there was a reason for that! We also have cases like baby P, hardly role models, neither is the US ( Rodeos anyone? Puppy Farms in Amish ( dogs "debarked" using a broom handle" de clawing of cats still legal )
> 
> I know someone who works for one of the charities out in the far east, helping to re educate the population. Yes, dog / cat meat is dying out, simply because it is an old tradtion, the new generation are understanding that there is no need for it.
> 
> If you really want to help these dogs/cats, then as I said before educate yourself.


china doesn't care what others think..


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

neither do we when we carry on using our cheap meat methods, still have cases of pet abuse/child abuse.

we want cheapo things but many dont care how or why its £2 for 2 chicken breasts


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

ferretman said:


> How can u edcate a culture thats had these beliefs for 100's of years.


 I dunno, how can you?
100's of years ago it was acceptable to bait bulls and bear, fight dogs, cut the throats of farm animals to kill them. Luckily, we evolved and hopefully the majority of us are compassionate human beings.
I believe that mass education on the part of the government in China, teaching children that this sort of thing is wrong, would go a long way to stopping the practice.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

I can see religion being an excuse by the chinese and thats a whole diffrent kettle of fish:whistling2:.


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

ferretman said:


> I can see religion being an excuse by the chinese and thats a whole diffrent kettle of fish:whistling2:.


hmmmm what religion :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

HABU said:


> china doesn't care what others think..


 I'm not sure this is correct. According to several of the large animal welfare charities such a WSPA China is keen to promote itself as a modern enlighteded trading partner. It does not like to be viewed as a primitive backward county in the eyes of the world.
But I do think that the Chinese government could go a long way to stopping these barbaric practices. They just need to learn how and learn that most civlised and enlightened countries in the world look upon them as savages, then ask for advice.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> This video has made me speechless, feeling sick and disgusted. Dogs being picked up and slammed against the floor crushing their skulls yet still fully conscious. I dont care what anyone says they should have each limb of there body torn off for anyone that wants to behave like that towards other animals or humans. Torture them and give them twice as much pain as those poor animals went through. Things like this make me wish us as a human race didnt exist. Absolutely horrific.


 The slam against the floor only winded it and didn't crush the skull.It was not only alive, but fully conscious.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

china just executes people that embarrass them...


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> I would suggest those who do want fur, would avoid chinese fur anyway, as you get can better qulaity for cheaper from Canada, the US, and places around Europe and its not on such a mass scale production.
> 
> I have links if anyone is interested, just PM me.


 Ah yes fur...from fur farms, where the animals are killed by clipping a bit of metal to one ear, shen shoving an electric pole up the anus and giving a mass electric shock :bash:
(imagine this happening to your pet cat/dog/rabbit/ferret)
If the idea horrifies you, then don't pay someone to do it to an animal on your behalf by buying fur.

Where before this happens, the animals live in small bare cages alone so that the 'quality' of the fur isn't damamged by playing with other animals or rubbing on things.
Fur is vile. There is no need for any human to wear fur.
To kill an animal for it's fur, then throw the body into the garbage is totally disrespectful of it's life.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

If the animal has been raised and has lived a humane life, and then that animal is then humanely slaughtered, then I see no reason why one cannot use its fur or any other body item ( so long as the animal in question is not an endangered one ) if anything I think its a waste not to use every useable part and an insult to the dead animal.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> If the animal has been raised and has lived a humane life, and then that animal is then humanely slaughtered, then I see no reason why one cannot use its fur or any other body item ( so long as the animal in question is not an endangered one ) if anything I think its a waste not to use every useable part and an insult to the dead animal.


 Farmed animals are not humanely reared and don't live 'humane' lives. Are you saying that shoving an electric probe into an animal's anus and electrocuting it from the inside is a humane way to kill?

The Fur Farm Fallacy

and watch the video and cry

PETA TV:Stella McCartney's Anti-Fur Ad


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## beguana (Feb 5, 2007)

I saw this video a long time ago and it made me sick, but you have to remember that you cant allways stop it, KFC in canada are now freerange, lets hope it changes around the world 
but this will keep happening it happends moer and more everyday and it happends in this country, animals are abused everyday so why are we trying to change a diffrent country when ours is so ****ed up with this still?
we may not skinn animals but we do damn well abuse them 
And yes some 'fake' fur you buy isnt fake at all as its cheaper to get real in and most market stalls dont know:whip:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beguana said:


> I saw this video a long time ago and it made me sick, but you have to remember that you cant allways stop it, KFC in canada are now freerange, lets hope it changes around the world
> but this will keep happening it happends moer and more everyday and it happends in this country, animals are abused everyday so why are we trying to change a diffrent country when ours is so ****ed up with this still?
> we may not skinn animals but we do damn well abuse them
> And yes some 'fake' fur you buy isnt fake at all as its cheaper to get real in and most market stalls dont know:whip:


 You can stop it!
Shouting your protests loud and long. Lobbying governments. Educating people and most importantly, banning the sale of fur, will stop the practice dead. It may be a slow process but we should never give up protesting.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Ah yes fur...from fur farms, where the animals are killed by clipping a bit of metal to one ear, shen shoving an electric pole up the anus and giving a mass electric shock :bash:
> (imagine this happening to your pet cat/dog/rabbit/ferret)
> If the idea horrifies you, then don't pay someone to do it to an animal on your behalf by buying fur.
> 
> ...


Not all fur is made the bad way like you explain. Plenty of farms take good care of the animals and kill them propperly. You can now source your fur. And Fur from canada and places in the US use wild fur, so its no different than hunting for meat.

Also you have added links from PETA... I mean that says it all. They arnt to nice to animals themselves.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Farmed animals are not humanely reared and don't live 'humane' lives. Are you saying that shoving an electric probe into an animal's anus and electrocuting it from the inside is a humane way to kill?
> 
> The Fur Farm Fallacy
> 
> ...


 
Nope, did not say that at all. I said if the animal has been raised/killed in a humane way ( not electrocuted up the anus )

I said if the animal has been humanely killed ( Ever watch Hugh FW, and the slaughters he had filmed?! )

I have watched several of the films, and is the reason I do not buy leather shoes/bags etc.


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## ChloEllie (Jul 18, 2009)

the best ay to skin of what i have seen is in a gas chamber types of thing.
it knocks the animal out straight away and then slows the heart till they r dead....takes 20 seconds from when they go in till death.

they then get put on a machine where it is done in seconds.

although this fur is used for clothing and accesories and the meat is used for dog food.
the animals they were using were cared for like pets. good living conditions, fed and watered well.


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## ChloEllie (Jul 18, 2009)

oh also, read 'skinny bitch'
its basically 2 women that tell u not to eat meat because our bodies dont need it, or anything fatty or caffeine lol

but in one section of their book they look in to american slaughterhouses.
if u wana b disgusted that generally does the trick.
i know to be able to that job u have to be desensitized to an extent...but wow what the men do to these animals is foul and perverted.

i grew up living next door to a slaughterhouse. iv seen how it can be done humanely and dont have a problem with that...i eat meat and would rather it b killed humanely than not...obviously.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Links are fun http://www.petakillsanimals.com/


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> Not all fur is made the bad way like you explain. Plenty of farms take good care of the animals and kill them propperly. You can now source your fur. And Fur from canada and places in the US use wild fur, so its no different than hunting for meat.
> 
> Also you have added links from PETA... I mean that says it all. They arnt to nice to animals themselves.



That is how they kill them properly. It's an accepted way to kill larger mammals like foxes and raccoons.
I added the first link I came across this morning. There are many others from different organisations. What evidence have you got that PETA isn't 'nice' to animals? 
Not that I'm a massive fan of them any more than ALF.
The facts stand that fur farming is barbaric, the way the naimals are kept and housed would be prosecutable if it was a pet dog or cat and the methods of killing them are not humane.
There are no nice fur farms or kind fur farmers.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> Nope, did not say that at all. I said if the animal has been raised/killed in a humane way ( not electrocuted up the anus )
> 
> I said if the animal has been humanely killed ( Ever watch Hugh FW, and the slaughters he had filmed?! )
> 
> I have watched several of the films, and is the reason I do not buy leather shoes/bags etc.


 You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am opposed to killing animals. HArdly the case when I rear my own goats for meat, rear 2 pigs every year and kill my own cockerels. However, every one of my animals gets spacious accommodation, every consideration, the company of it's own kind, enrichment and a swift, pain and fear free death.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> Links are fun http://www.petakillsanimals.com/



Well so far what I have read from the link you provided, tells me nothing more than PETA puts lots of animals to sleep. SO does the RSPCA and many dog pounds all over the world. I saw nothing to say that the animals were cruelly treated before they were put to sleep, or that they were put to sleep in a cruel and inhumane manner.
So if your only argument is that the organisation puts unwanted animals to sleep ergo, fur farming is acceptable and video evidence of just how dreadful they are, are to be discredited simply because those videos were obtained by PETA holds as much water as my seive does I'm afraid.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Well so far what I have read from the link you provided, tells me nothing more than PETA puts lots of animals to sleep. SO does the RSPCA and many dog pounds all over the world. I saw nothing to say that the animals were cruelly treated before they were put to sleep, or that they were put to sleep in a cruel and inhumane manner.
> So if your only argument is that the organisation puts unwanted animals to sleep ergo, fur farming is acceptable and video evidence of just how dreadful they are, are to be discredited simply because those videos were obtained by PETA holds as much water as my seive does I'm afraid.


Thats not my argument. They go on and on about how its wrong to kill animals for any reason and how we shouldn't have zoos, pets, eat meat etc But they are killing animals? 

Its the same video thats been around for ages. PETA created that video for this very reason. They want people to get angry because now you are doing what they want you to do for free.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> Thats not my argument. They go on and on about how its wrong to kill animals for any reason and how we shouldn't have zoos, pets, eat meat etc But they are killing animals?
> 
> Its the same video thats been around for ages. PETA created that video for this very reason. They want people to get angry because now you are doing what they want you to do for free.


 I understand your point about the hypocracy of the organisation. However, the video is not made up, or put on or anything else. It is genuine and shows what happens on a fur farm. There have been many other videos showing the same thing, from different organisations. Just because the organisation itself might be wrong in the things they do or the way they do them, cannot distract from the fact that fur farming is awful. But then so is all factory farming.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I understand your point about the hypocracy of the organisation. However, the video is not made up, or put on or anything else. It is genuine and shows what happens on a fur farm. There have been many other videos showing the same thing, from different organisations. Just because the organisation itself might be wrong in the things they do or the way they do them, cannot distract from the fact that fur farming is awful. But then so is all factory farming.


Yeah Im not doubting that it happend but these vids are old. This isnt the norm, even in china. Only a moron would stamp something to death to protect the fur. They make it seem like every bit of fur is made from skinning live animals.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> Yeah Im not doubting that it happend but these vids are old. This isnt the norm, even in china. Only a moron would stamp something to death to protect the fur. They make it seem like every bit of fur is made from skinning live animals.


 The video didn't show an animal being stamped to death.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> The video didn't show an animal being stamped to death.


Nah but that usually comes along in the written version. How they stamp animals to death to protect the fur. There isnt an animal that would just sit there are be skinned, they would move and it would rip the fur and the pelt wouldn't be able to be used. It works best for everything that its freshly killed when its skinned, like meat it.


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## Astral (May 1, 2009)

Evil Fecking heartless souless pieces of s**ing scum!!



I want to rip their frigging skin off alive


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## Wirral Exotic Suppliers (Jun 2, 2009)

****ing discrasfull how? why? and why alive just why


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## StephanieDragon (Dec 24, 2008)

*Sicky*

I wanted the first 30seconds and i started feeling sick. . . :devil:sould not have watched it, its awful


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

I only managed about 30 seconds myself.....just made me sick to my stomach :devil::devil::devil: So went on and signed the petition instead. It's just beyond me how people can have such low regard for a living animal!!!!!


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## fiona_951 (May 27, 2008)

I haven't opened the video nor have I read all of the responses but I do know that, as horrible and probably drastic and unrealistic as this sounds, i'm making it my personal goal to hunt down people like that and f**king ruin them. I'm so sick and tired of people treating helpless animals so badly. I don't give a f**k what people do to other people to be honest, but when an animal is involved, especially something as barbaric and ridiculous as that it just gets me so f**king riled... Honestly... One day you'll see a video of me stood there skinning those b**tards alive on youtube. See how they f**king like it. 

Anyway, back to smiles huh? 

Wheres the petition? I'll sign for sure.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

can I skin them alive too?? would they mind do you think?? that statement is of course sarcastic but those vidoes make me physically sick!! Just why? and how on earth can people do these things??


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

There is alot of speculation about the videos. Its easy enough for flim makers to pay them to do what they say i.e. skin an animal alive. and then bring the vids back to the west and tell us thats how they always do it. I mean what moron believes something alive, moving and with teeth is going to be eaiser to skin... I just dont get it on a basic level.

Animal rights people will go to great lengths for what they think is the greater good when they really just have it all twisted.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

No I have not watched the videos but I am sick at the thought and some of the earlier replies HERE!!!

I couldn't care less if that is their belief or tradition. It is wrong. They need to change it. Who are we to judge? Well I don't know about you but I can and choose to judge in this case, because it is disgusting, cruel, wrong, ethicless and selfish.

I understand that the videos may not be 100% accurate or genuine, but if it is...bloody hell. I have not watched them but to think this goes on alone is enough to make my blood boil. I would also urge people to be weary of anything Peta say.

If the only way of stopping this sort of animal cruelty means losing a tradition, a religion or a blief then so be it. Sorry - harsh but my true opinion.


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

It's absolutely disgusting!!! :censor:

But at the same time, we can't put all of the blame on China. Some of the blame must go to the people who are buying fur products.....Madonna springs to mind :bash:

Britain has banned fur farms although it is perfectly legal to import fur products into the country. Actually, boycoting China could make them think about their needless cruelty.

Several countries have now banned seal fur/products and the Canadian people (the very few that still believe in clubbing baby seals) are losing money through it. It shows that if we ban said items, it can have a positive effect.

And to be honest, i don't care if the Chinese have been skinning animals alive for 100's of years, so called "tradition" can be stopped.
Didn't we stop burning witches at the stake? That was once tradition!


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## zenasam (Nov 18, 2007)

couldnt watch it all x i find it dreadful that this sort of thing goes on x x


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Marcia said:


> It's absolutely disgusting!!! :censor:
> 
> But at the same time, we can't put all of the blame on China. Some of the blame must go to the people who are buying fur products.....Madonna springs to mind :bash:
> 
> ...


If we didnt ban fur farms here we wouldnt have to outsource to china and the rules could be stricter.


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> If we didnt ban fur farms here we wouldnt have to outsource to china and the rules could be stricter.


It's a bloody good job we banned fur farms. It's a sick act and no good comes from it. Other than complete snobs strutting around thinking their perfect wearing a dead animal on their backs :censor:
I can totally see the fashion there :censor:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Marcia said:


> It's a bloody good job we banned fur farms. It's a sick act and no good comes from it. Other than complete snobs strutting around thinking their perfect wearing a dead animal on their backs :censor:
> I can totally see the fashion there :censor:


No its not. In the "old days" everyone would wear fur, not just rich people. Would you feel the same about leather? thats still a dead animal on someones back. Would you eat a dead animal? Put a dead animal in your mouth?

Because we banned fur here we have to outsource for fur, so its helping china and making them produce more to keep up with the demand.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Love_snakes said:


> Would you feel the same about leather?


A whole cattle gets used.Leather is a by product of the meat trade.They don't skin the cattle just for the hide.IMO only if you eat the meat then you have the right to ware fur/leather.It's only two faced to ware fur/leather if you don't eat the meat of the amimal your waring.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

gazz said:


> A whole cattle gets used.Leather is a by product of the meat trade.They don't skin the cattle just for the hide.IMO only if you eat the meat then you have the right to ware fur/leather.It's only two faced to ware fur/leather if you don't eat the meat of the amimal your waring.


Not all leather. Some cattle are bred for leather. Also with fur, the rest of the animal is turned into animal foods usually so its not like they are just thrown to one side.


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

Love_snakes said:


> No its not. In the "old days" everyone would wear fur, not just rich people. Would you feel the same about leather? thats still a dead animal on someones back. Would you eat a dead animal? Put a dead animal in your mouth?
> 
> Because we banned fur here we have to outsource for fur, so its helping china and making them produce more to keep up with the demand.


I don't eat meat and i don't own/wear any leather :2thumb:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Marcia said:


> I don't eat meat and i don't own/wear any leather :2thumb:


Are you a vegan? Most people eat meat and eat things that have something animal derived in it. Aslong as the animal was kept well I have no problem with meat/fur/leather.


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

Nope, not a vegan. I love cheese and milk too much lol.

I have nothing against meat if the animals were cared for and nothing gets wasted. But i do have an issue with fur, however, i'm not going into it because i'm in too much of a good mood at the moment


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Marcia said:


> Nope, not a vegan. I love cheese and milk too much lol.
> 
> I have nothing against meat if the animals were cared for and nothing gets wasted. But i do have an issue with fur, however, i'm not going into it because i'm in too much of a good mood at the moment


Meat and fur are no different. We dont need either to live anymore, we have them because we are selfish humans and want them.

Also cheese and milk are the worse, cheese is full of fat and milk is for baby cows, and is like 20% puss or something.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

MOTHER F:censor:R
Poor thing must have been in agony, could only watch a few seconds.


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## diamondlil (May 7, 2008)

Natrix said:


> fenwoman
> While your doing the education bit, have a read of this web site
> "Snuff" Films A lot of these movies aren't what they appear to be.
> I know it's a bit long winded but it is an eye opener.
> ...


Thanks for that link, very interesting. To think that the very people campaigning against cruelty would set up the cruelties to film! Words fail me.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Evie said:


> I haven't watched the video, but I think the reason they do it is that the flavour of the meat is supposed to have a better flavour if the animal is terrorised before they slaughter it. Something to do with adrenalin I think.
> 
> When you read around the subject, eating dog meat is a dying tradition in China and this practice is something that only goes on in the older parts and by the older generation. We can only pray that this practice dies with the old feckers!
> 
> ...


 Urghh!!

People will do absolutly anything to make a bit of cheap tasty meat. Like battery hens. 

Its just not right. I didnt watch the video these things annoy me and upset me to much. :bash:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It is disgusting and inhumane, but the petition on the site is only to stop cat/dog fur farming. Why not other animals skinned alive? They didnt look like regular dogs to me, they looked like raccoons - their own petition didnt cover that species.

As for comparing Peta to the RSPCA, I'm no RSPCA lover, but they dont put nearly ALL the animals they rescue to sleep - healthy ones - because they dont believe in keeping pets. I feel sorry for any animal "rescued" by Peta, they just bump them off and chuck them in the skip.

Peta might fight for animal "rights", but they certainly dont care about animal welfare. Lying, criminal, firebombing....well, I cant say what I would call them as that is a sweary word.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Love_snakes said:


> Meat and fur are no different. We dont need either to live anymore, we *have them because we are selfish humans and want them*.
> 
> Also cheese and milk are the worse, cheese is full of fat and milk is for baby cows, and *is like 20% puss or something*.


Absolute rubbish!

We eat meat because it is the natural diet of _**** sapiens,_ we have evolved to be omnivorous hunter-gatherers and have been hunting and eating flesh for hundreds of thousands of years. It is *you* that has decided to *change your natural diet* and I fully respect your right to eat what ever you choose. I expect the same respect from you for my right to eat what I naturally have evolved to eat without being called 'selfish'.

and as for milk being '20% puss'!??? Where the hell did you learn biology!?


I have said many times before that I have no issues with people choosing to be vegetarian, vegan or even fruitarian, live and let live I say...*but* I expect the same respect in return. I don't expect to be made to feel guilty or selfish for my choices and if you are to kick off or try to do so then I would suggest you stick to the facts rather than complete garbage you have read of some PETA or AA website....


Cheers

Andy


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

bothrops said:


> Absolute rubbish!
> 
> We eat meat because it is the natural diet of _**** sapiens,_ we have evolved to be omnivorous hunter-gatherers and have been hunting and eating flesh for hundreds of thousands of years. It is *you* that has decided to *change your natural diet* and I fully respect your right to eat what ever you choose. I expect the same respect from you for my right to eat what I naturally have evolved to eat without being called 'selfish'.
> 
> ...


Errr im pro eating meat, pro hunting and pro fur.
What i was saying is that just like we needed fur and animal skins to live in the cold and now there are alternatives that are fake and insulate us, we live in a time where you could live healthily without meat as we now have alternatives, which you can use if you choose. I was defending fur with meat as an example. Also I hate peta for obv reasons like the first line of this reply.

Please read a whole tread before you react.

Also there is puss in milk, its a fact.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> They didnt look like regular dogs to me, they looked like raccoons - their own petition didnt cover that species.


There racoon dogs-(_Nyctereutes procyonoides_) and are asian native animal.They are a member of the canidae family.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

gazz said:


> There racoon dogs-(_Nyctereutes procyonoides_) and are asian native animal.They are a member of the canidae family.
> image


PETA seem to leave the word raccoon out of that when they make ads so you look down at your pet... then in a rage donate money to them


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Love_snakes said:


> Errr im pro eating meat, pro hunting and pro fur.
> What i was saying is that just like we needed fur and animal skins to live in the cold and now there are alternatives that are fake and insulate us, we live in a time where you could live healthily without meat as we now have alternatives, which you can use if you choose. I was defending fur with meat as an example. Also I hate peta for obv reasons like the first line of this reply.
> 
> Please read a whole tread before you react.
> ...


Firstly I must make you a humble and whole hearted apology. I have been guilty of the one thing I hate most on this forum - posting on a thread without reading it first. My full apologies.

I had thought that this thread was actually this one (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/off-topic-chat/359908-18-anti-fur-campaign-shocking.html) and had been resurrected. If you read that you'll see why I got so defensive! 





PSYCHOSIS said:


> I watched that vid , what can i say but I feal real sorrow for the dogs and cats that have to go throu that  Every one just join that Petition , i did and im geting all my mates and famly to as well , Because That was just sick ......  It makes me so angry :cussing: In my words they are just godless people . If they can do that to animals they could do that to humans as well . ?


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT SIGN OR PROMOTE ANYTHING THESE AR ORGANISATIONS TRY TO MAKE YOU SIGN!

These organisations are full of lies and proganda and have fully succeeded towards their ultimate goal by getting the enemy (each and every one of US) to sign their petition and add weight to their cause. They want the complete and utter abolishion of ALL HUMAN AND ANIMAL INTERACTION - yes thats right - YOU are an evil person and your animals are your slaves. AR groups would rather your pets were dead than in your care.





fenwoman said:


> Farmed animals are not humanely reared and don't live 'humane' lives. Are you saying that shoving an electric probe into an animal's anus and electrocuting it from the inside is a humane way to kill?
> 
> The Fur Farm Fallacy
> 
> ...


 
Fenwoman - you also need to read through the thread linked above and carefully watch and listen to the links.
I am abhored by animal cruelty and believe all animals deserve the best possible care that we can give them but these videos are produced (and I mean that literally - often with a number of filmmakers giving the illusion of 'hidden camera') by people and organisations that have VERY DANGEROUS ideas, motives and agendas. By supporting them in this you are playing right into their hands, believing their propoganda.



fenwoman said:


> I understand your point about the hypocracy of the organisation. However, the video is not made up, or put on or anything else. It is genuine and shows what happens on a fur farm. There have been many other videos showing the same thing, from different organisations. Just because the organisation itself might be wrong in the things they do or the way they do them, cannot distract from the fact that fur farming is awful. But then so is all factory farming.


That's just it, the video IS MADE UP, or at least the propoganda surrounding it is. This IS NOT the standard method of dispatch and IS almost certainly produced specifically to get more money into PETA's coffers.

You have also nicely summed up your own hypocrisy. You seem happy to believe everything you see on those videos (and more importantly the details and context that is proclaimed to add 'oomph') without a second thought and therefore shout ALL fur farming is awful from the rooftops based on this. You mention that you have a smallholding and raise animals for meat and hate factory farming. Fair enough....but what you have done the equivalent of is this...

Say someone goes into an unregulated, industrial pig breeding unit and filmed some muppet farmhand biting the tails off baby pigs and then using a large pair of pliers to remove their teeth (it happens). They then post the movie on the internet claiming that all farming in England is performed in this evil and barbaric way and we must all take action..maybe start with a petition to ban all pig farming and people get sucked in and then eventually a group of them come and firebomb your house because you are a 'pigfarmer' and therefore an evil animal torturer..... extreme yes, but I hope it makes my point clear

Bad fur farms are bad. Professional, well regulated fur farms are no different from your small holding. Animal cruelty is wrong, using animals and animals products if not. 




Sweetcorn said:


> I only managed about 30 seconds myself.....just made me sick to my stomach :devil::devil::devil: So went on and signed the petition instead. It's just beyond me how people can have such low regard for a living animal!!!!!


Again, please be VERY careful before signing these sorts of petitions



fiona_951 said:


> I haven't opened the video nor have I read all of the responses but I do know that, as horrible and probably drastic and unrealistic as this sounds, i'm making it my personal goal to hunt down people like that and f**king ruin them. I'm so sick and tired of people treating helpless animals so badly. I don't give a f**k what people do to other people to be honest, but when an animal is involved, especially something as barbaric and ridiculous as that it just gets me so f**king riled... Honestly... One day you'll see a video of me stood there skinning those b**tards alive on youtube. See how they f**king like it.
> 
> Anyway, back to smiles huh?
> 
> Wheres the petition? I'll sign for sure.


If you sign it, then you are supporting the very people that have caused that act of cruelty to be performed.
PETA pay a lot of money for gruesome films that will make them money from donations. It is nothing at all for a 'filmmaker' to pay some local more than a years wages to 'not kill it, just skin it alive...the more blood the better!'



Marcia said:


> It's absolutely disgusting!!! :censor:
> 
> But at the same time, we can't put all of the blame on China. Some of the blame must go to the people who are buying fur products.....Madonna springs to mind :bash:
> 
> ...


 
Again..China haven't been skinning animals alive for 100's of years.....if you guys put as much raw passion and gusto into genuine welfare charities, the world would be a much better place....

DO NOT FALL FOR PETA's LIES.... 





Cheers

Andy


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## diamondlil (May 7, 2008)

bothrops said:


> Firstly I must make you a humble and whole hearted apology. I have been guilty of the one thing I hate most on this forum - posting on a thread without reading it first. My full apologies.
> 
> I had thought that this thread was actually this one (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/off-topic-chat/359908-18-anti-fur-campaign-shocking.html) and had been resurrected. If you read that you'll see why I got so defensive!
> 
> ...


Great post, wholeheartdly agree.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

bothrops said:


> Firstly I must make you a humble and whole hearted apology. I have been guilty of the one thing I hate most on this forum - posting on a thread without reading it first. My full apologies.


Its cool and understandable. Its gets annoying when people watch 1 video and then go around telling everyone like its hard fact and the think is now they have celebs in their ads the public think every word from peta really is fact and sadly its far from it. They could be such a force of good for animal rights and anti curelty yet they spend their money helping extremists and funding pointless expensive campaigns like the "call fish, sea kittens"... pointless.


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