# Brumation - Who, What, Why, When and Where?!



## Brat

Can this possibly be made a sticky? 
I'm copying this from another forum I am on as it has come to our attention that people in the UK know little or nothing at all about Brumation..



Rick @ Reptilekeeper.co.uk said:


> I've posted this for those who notice their beardie slowing down in the winter!
> I don’t have any degrees or anything so this is all based on common sense, personal experience, & asking questions, so if anyone wants to query something please go ahead.
> OK - a quick geography lesson – I’m using Central NSW for the figures which I’ve taken from our Bureau of Meteorology. So, mean max. temp in Feb is 30 ~ 33 deg whilst mean min temp is 18~21 deg ( around the recommended basic temps for our viv’s). In Aug the figures are, mean max 15 ~ 18 deg with a mean min of 3 ~ 6 deg.
> As beardies don’t migrate and they obviously can’t get sufficient heat on a regular basis in the winter period then the alternative is to slow down the metabolism by one method or another. The safest way being to get in hole under a b l o o d y big rock and do nothing until something tells you it’s time to come out again – thus your basic brumation.
> Now for the finer detail:-
> No-one I know would try it on sub-adults (less than 12 months old) –they may slow down a bit over mid-winter but should still have temps & food maintained as they are still growing at an enormous rate.
> Some adults don’t bother – they just keep on racing round all year, but others will show less interest in food & more in sleeping, so in mid-autumn start reducing temps over 4~6 weeks so that there is no heating on at all at the end of that period. Check that your bd had a good clear out of his bowel at the end of the 6 weeks as anything left in the gut can ferment/rot etc., turn off the last heating/lighting and a couple of days later put him in a cool place for the next 3 months. After around three months he will start to stir again, so reverse the process being ready for an eating binge. They don't lose weight (mine lost around 5grams only) but they wake up really hungry. I have a couple of large shoe boxes with a flap in the front floored with paper kitty litter pellets as insulation, these are put into a small tank in an unheated spare room. Water is provided as this is not full hibernation and occasionally on a good day one will get up for a short wander then back to bed DO NOT FEED AT THIS TIME as they will not be able to digest the food. Brumation assists with breeding but should not be used for this purpose only. It’s a natural thing and so, if/when your beardie shows signs of slowing down then follow the care sheet & let him/her have a rest.
> It won't hurt if they don't brumate but it MAY shorten their life span if not offered the chance.
> I think the bottom line is to do what your beardie wants. Ours actually start to slow down themselves, more sleeping, less interest in food! Once this happens then we bring the temps down over a month, reducing food & lighting. At the end of that time and after seeing that they don’t have a belly full of food we put them in a cool dark area until they show signs of waking again. If your guys show no sign of slowing down then there is no need to follow this regime.
> There is no solid evidence that it does or doesn't shorten the lifespan but taken as part of the whole husbandry thing you could expect it to have some effect somewhere.
> The trouble with beardies is that there does not appear to be any single really in-depth study available and to compound that, the UK ones have been bred from a limited number exported from Australia in the 60's & 70's (unless you’ve got smuggled stock !) so over the last 30~40 years it is quite possible that some traits have either been bred out or reinforced to some extent.
> For those interested in a closer look at the type of land in which our beardies live, try this link. Remember that they live on the inland side of the dividing range (the big empty brown bit, left of the dark green on the east coast). This page includes some classic photos of open woodland, savannah etc.
> 
> www.wildernessaustralia.com.au/regions/ecology_map.htm
> 
> To check our climate conditions try the Bureau of Meteorology at
> Climate information
> 
> Rick


----------



## Brat

Guess no-one was interested then lol.


----------



## njp

Very useful

Mine are to young at the moment


----------



## chamman

i thought it made a good read!:2thumb:


----------



## fastbaz

good one brat.. our older bd 4 years has started to slow down and has half buried himself in sand and under a plastic bush in his viv, he watches you but doesnt move the younger one has slowed down but is more alert... it will be her first time as she is 18 months old


----------



## Kimmy173

I noticed this is my leopard gecko too, so what other lizards does it affect?


----------



## exopet

Quite a few desert species, although I would look for the signs before allowing any lizard, or snake to bruminate.

My beardie (9 months old) is trying to bruminate, although I've dropped the temp a little (22 degrees) I would recommend bruminating her. she is very inactive, so she is eating less, I've upped her greens and reduced her livefood (don't want her getting fat!), I'm keeping a close eye on her for now, as I wouldn't like her to go to sleep and not wake up.


----------



## Fill

My male vittikins always slows down a little over winter, never fully goes to sleep just gets up later in the day and goes to sleep earlier.


----------



## Roblea87

*Still a little worried...*

Hello, your post about brumation made me feel a little better but I'm still a little worried. You mention it is uncommon with Beardies that are still young. My beardie is just over 12 months old and these past two weeks has become very lazy and uninterested in food. He does, however, still get up to go for the occassional drink. He is not climbing up onto his favourite basking spot during the day, he just lies in his sleeping spot and insists on sleeping during the day (the most he will do is open one eye to look at you if you go to check him out). I'm inclined to believe this is the beginning of his brumation but what do you think?

Any feedback would be great, thanks

Roblea87


----------



## BritishDragon

The above account is very similar to mine. My female is 14 months old and during the last month I have noticed she is disinterested in food and rarely moves from her sleeping spot behind rocks. I've been gradually reducing the duration of the UV light to now 10hrs and switched to a 100W bulb from a 160W, thus bringing temps down. She is emptying her bowels perhaps only every 5 or 6 days now.

My question is:

Should I continue to reduce the duration of the UV light - or should it be off completely for a length of time/weeks. Bear in mind I don't have a separate heat source - the mercury vapour UV acts as both light and heat. If the light didn't come on at all the temps would be constantly at room temp which is 70 deg F during the day, and 62 deg F through the night.


----------



## leogirl

lol i had a big panic a little while about it, but i just read through my books and the answers where there 

very helpful post aswell


----------



## blue-saphire

i heard leopard geckos brumate, the one's im getting within the next week are 07. should i allow them to brumate


----------



## blue-saphire

anyone?


----------



## HABU

anyone keep chuckwallas, desert iguanas, collards etc?..... i 'm sure that you all know that it snows where they live...just keep that in mind for some lizards as they are definately temperate lizards.... it's freezing in the high desert during the winter....i've sat many a day watching snow flakes out in the field.... it sucked then because i couldn't go lizard hunting....i just sat there in the sand hating life!!:lol2::lol2:


they can take the cold just fine.


----------



## blue-saphire

where bout do ou livethen mate?


----------



## HABU

blue-saphire said:


> where bout do ou livethen mate?


 
i lived smack-dad in the mojave desert of california for years. i was stationed there....twentynine palms california. all i did was go herping there...i used to find sidewinders in my front yard.


----------



## Esskie

HABU said:


> i lived smack-dad in the mojave desert of california for years. i was stationed there....twentynine palms california. all i did was go herping there...i used to find sidewinders in my front yard.


Hi there,
If I may pick up the thread again?

HABU, being pretty much obsessed with lizards, especially leos, I've done some reading and surfing through the U.S herp sites. You guys really do have some nice leos over there :thumb:

One site that's pretty cool is this one, some really nice leos here too. I think if I stayed somewhere like you I'd be out herp spotting all the time, then again if you grow up with it then wild lizards etc to you will be what rabbits etc are to me here in Scotland if you know what I mean? lol

I'm not comparing rabbits to lizards, just the commonness & the novelty factors


----------



## Kellybee

Could I also add that for *Collared Lizards* brumation is a very very different story. They display the same behaviour as beardies in winter, but have different requirements for effective brumation.

Habu is right, it does snow in the Mojave desert in winter, and as such, collared lizards are "designed" to remain active at room temperature. Because their natural habitat provides harsh winters, and due to their rapid metabolism and small size they lose weight dramatically unless they can shut down completely. 

With these animals brumation is not something to be taken lightly, or carried out without a bit of research. In order to maintain their weight over the winter they need temperatures ideally between 5 and 10 degrees (underground is a little warmer than on the surface when it snows). These temps will cause them to completely shut down without freezing, enabling them to burn minimal calories. It sounds harsh I know, but in order to survive in the desert winter the simple fact is they have to be very cold. 

Such low temeratures are generally unachievable in a house unless you have an unheated attic or basement. Therefore a handful of experienced breeders put them in a fridge set to about 6 degrees (NOT RECOMMENDED unless you are experienced in maintaining appropriate humidity due to the bacteria growth at this temperature and also not recommended for other reasons such as unreliability of the average fridge thermostat, etc).

Collareds can also be brumated in a garden shed or garage, preferably during the coldest months which are January and February. I personally use a frost stat heater so that if the temperature drops too low, they dont freeze. Detailed guidelines can be found at any of the following sites:

*www.suncharmers.com*
*www.captivecollareds.co.uk*
*www.collaredlizards.co.uk*


----------



## knukelzz

*Brumation*

Hi there after reading several articles on this subject i have a beardie 12mnths 20 inches and all he has done since i moved his viv is ly around not eating much cant find any signs of inpaction bath him every 2nd day he is due a yearly check at vets is this wise to do so while in this condition or not ? a liitle response would be fine as i sent the same message on beardie.org an the results were rather poor.cheerz knukelzz


----------



## rick01

Won't be brumation at this time of the year. It's more likely he's sulking because you've changed/moved his viv. They can get quite upset about things like this and will take a couple of weeks to get over it. Have his temps been changed at all? A slight drop will cause this.


----------



## tynmar_56

my aft does this in the winter time, we thought he was dying at first then the vet informed us that they do this. hes well and active again now though, eating like a horse!


----------



## berdie bob

i have a 9mth old female beardie who over the last week or so has started to go asleep really early! my temps are fine at both ends and she is eating but not as much as usual! it feels like she may be going into Brumation and in the summer too!! the lights are on for 13 hours, they come on at 8am and off at 9pm, she was very active over the winter months and the lights were on for 12 hours 

is this normal

so advice would be greatly appricated


----------



## Sally026

Hi,

This is really interesting I was getting really worried over my male beardie he keeps going and hiding under a log in the cool end and wants to sleep all day and hasn't eaten for about a week.

My female is still as active as every so was getting worried he was ill.

Could this be signs of the brumation you are talking about and what do I do about the temps etc if the female is still active?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## rick01

It is possible that he's thinking about brumating although I'd have thought it was a little early unless your weather is really bad. Ours guys usually go down in May when the weather is the equivalent of your September/October. If he's digging in to the cool end or hiding under something there all the time then it is possible that he wants to brumate. If you can't separate them then you'll have to leave him be and maintain the temps or lower them slightly (by around 5C assuming your basking temp is around 39C) which should keep them both happy.

Rick


----------



## totoro

*brumation*

i have heard of this. for snakes and lizards but surely this would be for the wild caught herps. i think i read about it years ago in some old herp keepers book. i know that herps do naturally slow down but any captive bred species surely does not need to brumate as they would be accustommed to being in a viv environment. i also think if you look after your herp in the correct way then i dont think brumation will in anyway prolong life. like i said i think this was meant for wild caught herps. but everyone to their own and if you feel happier doing this then it cant hurt.


----------



## rick01

This was not meant for wild caught - a few million years have hard wired this in to them and thirty years of in-breeding won't remove it! You'll see that I've mentioned that some don't slow down but others do and so you should follow their natural rhythm. Why do you think there are so many posts in Autumn about beardies sleeping/not eating? They're not wild caught unless they're all illegal stock!

Rick


----------



## grimble

hi there ,i have 3 eastern collards, 2 girls an a boy, the male is still lively but the 2 femalesspend all day curled up in the corner , ie had them out for s look and they seem fine , and yes i no its the middle of summer , but they did this last year and got me bothered , they get 13 hours of light and this remains the same allyear , wot do you reckon ?


----------



## rick01

I'm afraid I don't have any experience with "exotics" as we're only allowed to keep native fauna in Aus. However it is quite possible that you are seeing the early signs of brumation - someone with experience in this type of lizard really needs to answer.

Rick


----------



## Kellybee

totoro said:


> i have heard of this. for snakes and lizards but surely this would be for the wild caught herps. i think i read about it years ago in some old herp keepers book. i know that herps do naturally slow down but any captive bred species surely does not need to brumate as they would be accustommed to being in a viv environment.


Unfortunately mother nature doesnt take the captive environment into consideration. She intended for animals to roam free and built INSTINCT into their DNA. Regardless of whether an animal is CB or not, they are not just sensitive to temperature, but to air pressure and humidity (and more). Regardless of whether the temperatures allow or not, they will often try when the seasons change and sometimes there is nothing can be done to prevent it



totoro said:


> i also think if you look after your herp in the correct way then i dont think brumation will in anyway prolong life. like i said i think this was meant for wild caught herps. but everyone to their own and if you feel happier doing this then it cant hurt.


Brumation or hiberanation isnt just about climbing into a dark hole to escape the winter. There are other factors involved too. For "cold blooded" animals it allows for healing, the generation of reproductive hormones, and a well earned rest after a busy and tiring summer too. Brumation is not all black and white. I have lizards that will ignore all attempts to keep them awake until its cold enough to put them in the shed and lose weight because the temperature is high in the viv and their metabolism is up, they starve themselves in order to empty their own gut ready for the big sleep so I have no alternative than to respect their wishes and turn the lights off. Tortoises are a good example too....


----------



## silly grandma

this is very interesting information thanku for sharing


----------



## bikesfred54

*brumation beardie*

i have only owned him for three days and he is always in the coolest part of the viv the same viv as got the complete set up so temps have not been changed if i get him out of his hideing place he will stay out for a while then back to bed he was like this when i got him but the problem his i have his female as well and she is still fully awake so cant change the temps or uv can any one please tell me if he is left alone this way will he be ok.:bash:


----------



## rick01

He's more likely to be settling in after being moved. How old is he, and is there a chance the female is dominating him?

Rick


----------



## bikesfred54

*brumation*

he and the female get on great if i get him out he will run around but put him back in then its back to bed he looks in great condition but not wanting to eat only bed with eyes open.i think he was starting to do this when i got him.


----------



## bikesfred54

*brumation*

for got to say he is about 18 months old.


----------



## rick01

He's the right age to be brumating for the first time. If you can't/don't want to follow the original post about brumation then it's best to leave him to sleep in the cool area. All things being equal, not being monstered, ill, or really off his food due to a moult coming up, then he'll doze for around 3 months then brighten right up again.

Rick


----------



## bikesfred54

*brumation*

thankyou very much for all the help.


----------



## maoribadger

hi
think one of my beardies may be preparing to brumate - he is 12 months old. mind you he is so inclined to laziness i couldnt be definate. im more interested at the present time in if anyone knows if blue tongued skinks do this. mine is a bit off colour, not feeding much - he eats his salad and took a pinky from me the other day and a couple of waxies but wont even contemplate his locusts and he generally loves them. seems to spend a lot of time in the cool corner of his tank


----------



## fenwoman

I think Moriarty is going into brumation too. He hasn't moved much for the last 4 days, sleeps most of the time, ignored livefood, even big fat juicy cockroaches and just sleeps behind his big bit of bark. Is it the right time of year?


----------



## rick01

I'd have thought it a little early - October would have been my guess but as I don't know what your weather has been like it is quite possible that they are starting to slow down now.

Rick


----------



## fenwoman

rick01 said:


> I'd have thought it a little early - October would have been my guess but as I don't know what your weather has been like it is quite possible that they are starting to slow down now.
> 
> Rick


 The days have been mild but dark and rainy and the late afternoons and evenings are flipping chilly. So cold that I had to throw another dog on the bed to stay warm.:lol2:


----------



## rick01

He'll be reacting to the weather OK. I notice that a few others are also asking why their beardie isn't eating so it looks like a general "slow down" across the country. Just re-read the sticky on Brumation and you should be OK. I can't help with the Blue Tongue - there are so many and most of yours come from Indonesia anyway so will act differently to those I'm used to.

Rick


----------



## TCReptile

We've had such a miserable summer this year (If you can call it summer!) I've noticed a lot of my girls slowing down a lot earlier than last year. Although i've never had a beardie hibernate all of mine do slow down for a bit.
I did have one boy though who was really active but as soon as you took him out the viv he fell asleep on your shoulder, then once you put him back he'd wake up and be running around again! I think its safe to say he was a bit backwards and one of a kind!


----------



## fenwoman

TCReptile said:


> We've had such a miserable summer this year (If you can call it summer!) I've noticed a lot of my girls slowing down a lot earlier than last year. Although i've never had a beardie hibernate all of mine do slow down for a bit.
> I did have one boy though who was really active but as soon as you took him out the viv he fell asleep on your shoulder, then once you put him back he'd wake up and be running around again! I think its safe to say he was a bit backwards and one of a kind!


 Well Moriarty is definately going through brumation. He has slept all day long for the last couple of weeks, not eating much at all. He has slowed right down. He opens his eyes and snatches morios off me (his absolute fave food) but then goes right back to sleep.


----------



## silverkaylah

Hi
We have two beardie's who are both 10 months old. Over the last couple of weeks we have noticed a distinct reduction in their movements and willingness to eat.
The house temperature has dropped so I am assuming that brumination is occuring.
After reading throught the helpfull sheet on the front page, I notice that you say not to encourage brumination in beardies under 12 months.
My question is, they both sleep at night away from the hotspot. In the morning they usually make there way to the basking rock to warm. In the last couple of weeks they are reluctant to come out of their beds. We have been moving them to the basking rock as they feel very cold to the touch. Should we leave them in the cool position or keep moving them to bring the temperature up?

Many thanks


----------



## rick01

What do they weigh? It's a hard one when they're determined to shut down for a while! If they're 300+ grammes I would leave them alone in their corner assuming they've not had anything to eat and have defecated since their last meal. Under that weight I'd probably be bringing them out to bask every few days, see if they're interested in food, but keep an eye on them as they do need to clear their food right through and basking is the only way this will happen.

Rick


----------



## MarshallDavies

*!*

i'm _really_ glad i clicked on this one! cheers mate.


----------



## oglekm

hi all
Last year my bearded dragon who was about 8 months old went into brummation, this was awful as a first time mum i thought he was dieing as all the " experts" and books said this wasnt possible for a dragon under 12 months.
I changed his uv, his heat lamp, his substrate, his surroundings i even bought him a massive viv thinking he wanted more space.This went on until march/april where he slowly came round then he ate me out of house and home littrally eating 50 locust in about 48 hours! 


2 weeks ago he sat down in the middle of the viv and he hasnt moved since, he has had the odd peak to see where i am but he hasnt moved.
I have bathed him to empty his gut and he has gone straight back to bed.
The heat lamp is now off and the uv only on 9-6 i have to keep the heater on as it is a big viv for one chappie but this has been turned down. I still offer fresh greens each day but very little live stuff from now on.

If they want to brummate then they will and there is nothing you can do to stop them, just make sure they arent ill and let them get on with it.mine didnt lose any weight at all and he is a big boy.








this is him just going into brummation, 8 months and huge...

kim


----------



## marie2008

very intersting thread!

i have a leopard gecko who is only approx 5/6months old but have found all she does is sleep, and in any position she likes, some are hilarious, but always down on her hot bed end hehe..

she has also near but stopped eating her crickets and drinks rarely, she seems very young to do this, and i will not be encouraging her, just making sure she ok and gets fed when looks like she might eat,,,

the strange thing is, my snakes all seem to have a huge appetite through sep, get very grumpy and snappy then dont eat and sleep 20 hours a day, i put it all down to a 'reptile thing' get fat and healthy ready for mating then sleep for beauty lol


----------



## athy59

*re Brummi*

*Read the article, very interesting. but not all animals are the same. *
*My 2 dragons have slowed right down,1 is 5 months old and the other is 8 months old.*
*I noticed it said just to leave veggies in viv for them, None of mine will touch them now, My male finally emptied his bowels yesterday, only after i stuck him in a tub of warm water.*
*But yet both dragons wont eat in morning, but will have either locust, morio worms and sometimes crickets in the afternoon. *
*So what do i do? they both young, but a good weight, stop feeding altogether or carry on what i have been doing?*
*Sometimes my male will go nuts to get out of the viv for a cuddle. Yes a cuddle, he climbs out then up on my chest and fall fast asleep.*
*I got their UV lights on and now just using 60 watt bulb in viv.*
*At night the heat mat is turned on. (This place get quite cold.)*
*I feel they to young to go into full brummi, so carry on or let them do their thing? *
*As for my C/lizzard, not seen him for ages, i know he is fast asleep in the stump where the geckos sleep as well. I do pull him out now and then to make sure he`s ok. My Geckos have never gone into any brumination, they still come out at night for their water, locust and waxworms. *


----------



## oglekm

as they are so young i would carry on feeding as normal, mario worms can cause impactation i have stopped them....


----------



## debcot1

my 2 oldest beardies are approx 18 months old now. they have been slowing down for the past month but dont really move from the cold end now. no interest in food apart from a nibble on their greens every few days. no poos either. they will bask if i move them to the hot end. 

should i drop their temps and eventually turn off their heat and uv? how long do i do it for? im worried they will die if i do so any advice is appreciated.


----------



## oglekm

carry on as normal , i keep the uv on between working hours ie 9-5 i still offer greens all the time and live food. 
spike has been sleeping all week but tonight i got him out for a cuddle i hand fed him 2 slices of cucumber this seams to stimulate him, when i put him back he ate 6 locus and head bobed his mate.
let the dragon guide you, all dragons are differant. my female is going on as normal.but the big guy wants to sleep.....
bathe them empty their gut and see what they do.


----------



## rick01

Sounds as if they're shutting down for winter, so see that they've emptied their gut and then turn down the heat and lights until they're off. Cover them if you can and leave for a couple of months. Basically as described in the original article.

Rick


----------



## debcot1

rick01 said:


> Sounds as if they're shutting down for winter, so see that they've emptied their gut and then turn down the heat and lights until they're off. Cover them if you can and leave for a couple of months. Basically as described in the original article.
> 
> Rick


 shall i put a hide or box or something similar in for them to sleep under to give them a bit of privacy? im so worried about doing this for the firtst time!! shall i check them daily to make sure they are still alive?


----------



## rick01

Probably best to put a hide in, I'd also cover the viv so they don't get disturbed. You only need to look in once a week at the most although I know how hard it is not to keep checking!
Once they start coming out again then you start to turn the light and heat back on slowly.

Rick


----------



## littlebabyribbon

Im glad i read this thread, i was beginning to think i was doing something wrong, my beardies look rather depressed, sleeping under their hide for most of the day and only picking at their veggies. So am i best to just leave them to it? is it best for me to just leave the heatmat on and not switch their heat lamp or UV on? Also, do i carry on feeding or just leave some water?
Sorry for so many questions, just want to make sure i am doing the right thing for them, oh and they are 2 years old also.
Thanks x


----------



## rick01

If you've had a fecal float done and they're all clear with no other problems, then it's basically see they've had a good clear out, cool them down, heat and lights off, leave some water in cover and check say weekly. Once they start moving aound again then just increase the heat and lights over a couple of weeks and start normal feeding agian.

Rick


----------



## littlebabyribbon

Im going to sound really dumb here, but i dont know what a fecal float is? Is it to help them clear out?


----------



## rick01

It's a sample of Poo taken to the vet, where it'll be tested for various intestinal parasites. If infestations are detected you'll then need to medicate your beardie for a number of days depending on what is found.

Rick


----------



## littlebabyribbon

I have never been told about that before, im glad i have found this site


----------



## Slinkies mum

rick01 said:


> He'll be reacting to the weather OK. I notice that a few others are also asking why their beardie isn't eating so it looks like a general "slow down" across the country. Just re-read the sticky on Brumation and you should be OK. I can't help with the Blue Tongue - there are so many and most of yours come from Indonesia anyway so will act differently to those I'm used to.
> 
> Rick


I have a australian BTS. he was sold to me as an indonesian but several people have told me he isn't. So can you advise me on him, he has really slowed down and sleeping all the time.






 


Thanks Christine


----------



## rick01

With such a wide range it is hard to give any definite answer especially as I don't and haven't kept blue-tongues. However for a really comprehensive set of care sheets I'd recommend you work your way through this site Detailed Blue Tongue Skink Caresheet - BlueTongueSkinks.NET I've skimmed through it and don't think I can fault it. THere's a section in the Adult Care area which will help you I think.

Rick


----------



## Slinkies mum

Cheers Rick will do that. A couple of others on here have said theirs are doing the same so I'm not as worried now.


----------



## alfie reptiles

thanks alot really helpfull


----------



## beege_3

Just out of interes, will anyone be brumating their leos this winter?

I dont think I will to be honest..


----------



## candypops

that is really helpful thankyou... I've been worried that mr quee is depressed or ill! he's (or she's not sure) only about 11 months old but over the last month his behaviour has changed and he's taken to lying on bottom of tank instead of basking in light all day, previously having regular bowel movements he now only goes once a week if that but I thought this might also be down to us starting to feed dubia roaches instead of crickets?? any advice welcome.. I have continued to leave UV light on for 10hrs a day and heat matt 24hrs is that right?


----------



## sarah1981

mines only 8 months old and he has been slowing down for the past month since the clock went back this month he has not eaten at all just gives ya a dirty look he moves out in the morning to heat up and by 10 he his back round his log with his eyes half shut so this has helped alot he has not gone to the loo for nearly a month now and was starting to worry i did bath him as got told this helps them with that 
i have no idea really as this is my first beardie and with a gecko ya dont get this so any advice would be great or send private message as i never find this link again lol


----------



## tortoise_dude

Can I just ask, why do you not advocate for younger beardies to brumate? Surely in the wild they don't have people that go around picking them up and putting them in a nice warm enclosure for the winter?
I use a fridge to hibernate/brumate my tortoises and it maintains perfect temps of about 5-6oc. This is perfect temps for tortoises to hibernate/brumate, and from what I understand it sounds ideal for beardies to brumate in too?


----------



## rick01

> Surely in the wild they don't have people that go around picking them up and putting them in a nice warm enclosure for the winter?


No they don't, however in the wild they're hatched early spring/early summer and by the time the temps are dropping all or most of the weaklings have already died one way or another. The survivors will have loaded up with food and will have a better chance of making it through the colder periods. With captive breeding none of this happens and with clutches still hatching even in winter it's pretty obvious that should they be cooled down etc. the survival rate would not be good.

Hope this answers your query.

Rick


----------



## tortoise_dude

That still doesn't really answer why you wouldn't brumate the ones who had been hatched in June/July? I mean, obviously if there where some hatching just as they should be cooling down you would avoid it, however, I don't see where there could be a problem with brumating a 6 month old beardie? 

Friends have brumated/hibernated tortoises who are 6 months old and they have had really good growth


----------



## rick01

Perfectly valid point. However as this post was really to inform beginners about brumation I wouldn't recommend they try it unless their dragon is really fit and well, and they have the experience to judge whether the sub-adult is ready or not. On a forum such as this you have to speak to the lowest common denominator for the good of the dragon - thus I don't recommend trying it with sub-adults.
I keep our babies on a sand substrate once they're around 4 weeks old and I also use slightly different temps to those usually recommended for rearing babies because I've enough experience to know what works with my stock, but I'd never recommend this to a beginner.

Rick


----------



## tortoise_dude

I see where you are coming from now. Extremely good point.


----------



## Razaiel

rick01 said:


> Perfectly valid point. However as this post was really to inform beginners about brumation I wouldn't recommend they try it unless their dragon is really fit and well, and they have the experience to judge whether the sub-adult is ready or not. On a forum such as this you have to speak to the lowest common denominator for the good of the dragon - thus I don't recommend trying it with sub-adults.
> I keep our babies on a sand substrate once they're around 4 weeks old and I also use slightly different temps to those usually recommended for rearing babies because I've enough experience to know what works with my stock, but I'd never recommend this to a beginner.
> 
> Rick


That's interesting - because I actually keep my rankins dragons a bit different to "textbook". Keeping monitors, I found that dragons (mine anyway) seem to also prefer a burrowable substrate (soil/sand) though not as deep as I would for a monitor. When I transformed the back half of the vivarium into a nesting site for a female that didn't seem happy with a box to lay in and left the substrate there for quite a while after eggs were removed, one of the first ones in to make a burrow was my male! Mine also seem to prefer higher temps for basking - I have recorded with a temp gun my male basking at 127F - they do of course have access to a cool side that goes down to c.75F but rarely go there. Like you say though, Rick - I wouldn't as a matter of form recommend people to keep their dragons like mine - but over the years of watching and recording these things with mine - it seems to work for my particular dragons.


----------



## rick01

I think most of us over the years have developed various strategies for our dragons based on observation. All ours are kept on sand (admittedly what we use is not available to you guys) but I don't recommend it, what we seem to have is a rough approximation of their living conditions which we can advise as workable across the board, and from there it's a matter of close observation to see what works best.
Just as a matter of interest it's not surprising that Rankins (black soil beardies) like burrowing as their habitat does allow for that and they are observed using cracks in the soil for hiding places.

Rick


----------



## Simone1989

Is it a must to drop the temperatures over winter though???


----------



## rick01

No it's not "must", but if your dragon is showing signs of brumation and is adult then it is a recommendation as this is natural part of their life.

Rick


----------



## Redhill Reptiles

this is great, my bearded dragons are doing this and didnt bother brumating them so later this year when the time comes im definatley brumating them


----------



## ev2277

my beardie is just over a year old and over the last two weeks he appears to be trying to brumate. I know this as locusts have survived in the viv for days... normally he would have eaten them all in minutes... he is not interested in anything at all. I am worried that it is so early in the year but he didnt brumate over winter... should i be turning off his lights and heat and if so how long should I let him brumate for ?


----------



## rick01

Personally I think it is rather late in the season for brumation, I'd have expected this to happen around November rather than late Feb. Before you do anything else it would be an idea to have a fecal float done to check for internal parasites, both these and a heavy shed can also put them right off food.

Rick


----------



## Bevb

My Beardie Ike has just come out of a 3 week deep sleep Brumation, the day before he went down he had a bath and a poo, showed all the sign of not wanting food and spending time at the cool end of the Viv days before shut down, but he was half way through a shed when he did go down, as he has woken i was under the impression he would be ravenous but he doesnt want anything to eat or drink yet, could this be because he has'nt finished shedding? he wont eat salad stuff at all ever since i bought him, (approx 9 months ago now) he is about 3-4 years old, and went off locust before brumation but im hoping he will get back onto these along with crits, but any advice as to whether this is normal and he just needs time would be great.
Thanks.


----------



## Antw23uk

Im bringing the temps up on Bug at the moment, she is 4 yrs old and i havent offered food yet so i wouldnt worry too much, i guess it just takes time for the temps to get back up to normal slowly and then they start eating like lunatics!
I'm so glad to be getting things back to normal. I was paranoid enough owning a beardie let alone her going into brumation 8 ish months after i got her, lol


----------



## Bevb

Antw23uk said:


> Im bringing the temps up on Bug at the moment, she is 4 yrs old and i havent offered food yet so i wouldnt worry too much, i guess it just takes time for the temps to get back up to normal slowly and then they start eating like lunatics!
> I'm so glad to be getting things back to normal. I was paranoid enough owning a beardie let alone her going into brumation 8 ish months after i got her, lol


Thanks for replying, and it sounds like we have been through the same stressful time as each other! it is nerve racking isnt it:mf_dribble:i gave Ike a bath today to help his shedding and whilst he was in the bath he had a good drink so that was good as he wont drink from a bowl, he seems much chirpier today so i guess as you say the food thing will come gradually.


----------



## rick01

They don't tend to wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed - more like an old grump needing warming up! Ours usually don't feed for around a week or more (once the temps are mid 20's).

Rick


----------



## Bevb

rick01 said:


> They don't tend to wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed - more like an old grump needing warming up! Ours usually don't feed for around a week or more (once the temps are mid 20's).
> 
> Rick


 
Thats Brill! thanks Rick much appreciated.


----------



## Razaiel

Should my rankins be awake now? For the last few weeks I have been upping their temps and they now have had "normal" temps for the last couple of weeks - but they show no sign of wanting to wake up  Should I continue with the "normal" temps or take them back down again - not sure what I should be doing. They went to sleep about mid-October and I'm worried about them dehydrating with the higher temps - should I soak them? I tried taking them out into their cooler end of the viv on top of a log but they soon disappeared again  They're nearly 4 years old but it's the first time they have brumated - they had their first lot of babies last year.


----------



## Antw23uk

They should be awake by now so i think a vet visit is in order just to be on the safe side. A warm bath would also help but i defo recommend a trip to your reptile vet to rule out any other issues like parasites!


----------



## Razaiel

Thanks for your quick reply! I'll try giving them a warm bath tomorrow and see how they go. I remember that when I got them out last week one of them spotted the wax-worm tub (bright green!) and looked interestedly at it - but as he'd only just woken up I didn't think it a good idea to offer anything.

If they don't wake up then, off to vet with them ...


----------



## Antw23uk

If your temps are back up to normal food can be offered now and if it takes bribary of wax worms then go for it.

The main reason for not offering food as soon as they wake up is because the temps arent high enough to digest it. Good luck with the bath and vets.

I always recommend any animal is seen by the vets at least once a year for a general check up. With reptiles is good for doing feaces sample test for parasites and worms as well. Ant.


----------



## Razaiel

Thank you - that makes sense - I shall see if they fancy just a couple of bugs tomorrow. I just got them out for a little bath and 2 of them had a drink - third one didn't. They woke up immediately when I was digging around in there and their mouths look nice and pink and all 3 are still little fatties 

My new vet (a herp vet) likes to see the animals once a year for a check-up - so I think I will take up that offer, seems like a good idea.


----------



## rick01

Ant's covered it pretty well I think - if temps are now normal then try tempting with some food. If they still seem pretty lethargic a quick vet check would be in order.

Rick


----------



## Razaiel

Thank you very much : victory: I shall probably take them to visit vet anyway before the breeding season - just to make sure they're in good shape.


----------



## mgaka

A couple of weeks after I got her my beardie Izzy dug herself somewhere to lie and sort of dozed for 2 weeks. She had previously fed and poohed and then stopped both. I have put a 100W spot in as previously had a 60W and my place might be a bit colder than her previous home.

Anyhow, over the last 3 days she has slowly been geting more alert and this morning decided she would get out her hollow and eat, even chased down a hopper.

Good to have her up and running :mf_dribble:


----------



## daniel2639

well i just got a bosc monitor a few days ago i think hes still scared an needs to settle in but readin this post well he just does the same thing never moves doesnt eat and is allways under his sleeping bark the temps are fin in both cold and hot 38/40 hot an 28/30 cold so what do yu guys think ??


----------



## rick01

Sorry mate I know nothing about boscs. You may want to ask this question as a new thread on the forum.

Rick


----------



## Razaiel

He's new and boscs are naturally shy creatures. He won't be brumating - he'll just be scared and hiding away from you. Give him time to settle in and don't try grabbing him out or anything. Trust is the thing you need to build up with many monitors - after a while they get curious and come out more.


----------



## Antw23uk

Brumation is a dirty word at this time of the year people ..... no more using it now, you hear? :lol2:


----------



## rick01

Not over here it isn't!!!


Rick


----------



## NIKON

hi can anyone tell me about the brumation habbits of tegus only im thinking of getting a b/w agintinian and wanna get as much info as poss


----------



## teiryklav

can any lizzard brumate? or beardie only??


----------



## Helmetbolt

Just google your type of lizard & add the word Brumation.
ie: Uromastyx Brumation.


----------



## obie_1

Is any body else finding there ranks/beardies are trying to brumate i brought a breeding pair a few months ago and put them into my set up with correct temps theyld previously been kept in a viv with no stat so the temps were really too high,im now finding that my female is always diiging herself in and going off too kip wheras my male is fine,any ideas on what todo with her as im not over keen on keeping them in far 2 high temps?


----------



## wizzysjpip

after reading this thread i am hopin my female is goin thro the same process... now just 12 months old
sleepin an awful lot... off her food.. dug herself in a hole

sounds about rite doesnt it?
how long can i expect it to last?

it is worrying cos she is not eatin

thanks


----------



## Dave8706

ive had my dragon coming up to 1 year of its 3 years,
i didnt know anything at the time of getting him (unwanted pet from orig owner)
i noticed the hiding away in a corner not moving, digging, loss of interest in food, 
i did feed him a few crickets today n he was up n chasing them.

i am seeing these signs again.
still unsure on how to go about it properly
ive already sarted lowering the amount of time the lights are on.
(he hasn't went in a few days,) hopefully a bath after a cleanout of his viv will sort that.
i am lead to believe that during burmation - keep a temp of around 35-45F. missleading or true? 
exo terra ceramic heatlight give out that heat?


----------



## rick01

Just follow the instructions in the original sticky. Once the heat is turned off totally I keep ours in a room where the temp is a constant 15~16C and no lighting at all. They bury themselves under a rock or down a hole so you're trying to imitate that. Unless your temps are liely to drop much below 10C then there is no need for any sort of heating and definitely no lighting needed.

Rick


----------



## sam gamgee

rick01 said:


> Just follow the instructions in the original sticky. Once the heat is turned off totally I keep ours in a room where the temp is a constant 15~16C and no lighting at all. They bury themselves under a rock or down a hole so you're trying to imitate that. Unless your temps are liely to drop much below 10C then there is no need for any sort of heating and definitely no lighting needed.
> 
> Rick


For how long?


----------



## Dave8706

from searching the web, on many places it its sead that this can be anything upto 3 months.


----------



## rick01

Until he starts getting restless again. This can be any time from 8 to 14 weeks.

Rick


----------



## hobbes

cheers Rick, 
great info, but i need 'tailored' info !

a few weeks ago our 2 year old male bd was shwoing signs of 'slowing down'.

i took a poop sample to the vets and they gave a 5 day script of panacur after saying his poop was 'infested' with worms.

he's totally off his greens but still goes mental for crickets, the rest of the time he doesn't want to come out and spends all day laying spark out like a burst balloon on the floor of the viv.
i'm wanting to follow brumation guidelines, but am worried that it could could be worms/parasites that are making him behave this way ...
i read in another thread (can't find it now, 'ukgeckos' said there's a parasite who's symptoms are very similar to brumation)

am going to go back to the vet this week, but want to go forewarned, any help is much appreciated.
paul, our bd, hasn't lost weight, loves live food, won't touch greens, likes a massive poo in the bath every 4-5 days .... is this brumation ? 

many thanks to anyone who can set my mind at ease/tell me what to do : victory:


----------



## rick01

I'd bet on it being the worms causing his slowdown and in any case you do need that fixed before considering brumation(we had to do the same with one of our guys this year). I would have expected that the treatment would be 5 days treatment, 10 days off, 5 days treatment then a check again for worms. For the moment maintain the temps "as is", once he's been given the "all clear" if he still shows signs of slowing down, staying in the cool all the time, lack of appetite then start following the brumation procedure.
Hope this helps.

Rick


----------



## asm1006

Hello, I have 3 beardies and one vittikins.

I have adjusted their timers (uv and heat) accordingly to the nights closing in and darker mornings.

With this I have noticed their appetites have slowed, with the occasional burst of energy for a few crickets. Their salad (usually devoured) is now picked at. Poo's usually graced the vivs daily but now every few days.

Interestingly, the vittikins showed signs of slowing down about 2 weeks prior to the others. 

But my question is this...Poppy laid a clutch of eggs about two weeks ago, she is showing signs of slowing down too. Yesterday she did the biggest poo ever:lol2:-do I brumate her? What if she double clutches? Is this possible if temps are low? Or should I try and hold off brumating her for a while longer? No prob if so as she is in her own viv.

Jerry the randy male is still fairly active trying to get out of his viv to grab Poppy again:lol2:-obviously am keeping them separate. I assume he will slow down in the coming weeks.

If our winter gets really cold could I use a ceramic on a low setting on a stat 24/7?


----------



## rick01

With your 'possibly' gravid female I'd be keeping the temps up until you're sure she isn't going to lay. I'm guessing that your male can still see the female, if so try blocking his view of her he may then slow down some. As to heat, how cold does you house really get? Desert temps drop below 10C so if they're brumating temps aren't a problem.

Rick


----------



## jojo1977

i have 3 girls and 1 male all live together and have for 3 years the youngest is about 3 the male has slowed right down and the girl abit should i now reduce the temp a bit more basking spot only 95 now and still getting 14 hours of day light.


----------



## rick01

Yes - you should be reducing the temps and lighting times down til the heating is off and the dragons are pretty much asleep all the time. Then switch off all lights, if possible put the dragons somewhere cool and leave them until they start to stir again. At that time just reverse the procedure. Do re-read the original sticky here as I do cover this pretty well.

Rick


----------



## antangeldon

*brumation worries*

Hi, my female beardy has been in brumation for approx 3 weeks now and although very rarely she gets up has a little wander round and then just lies down and goes back to sleep, im really concerned that she hasnt eaten anything at all. Ive never dealt with this before so i wuld rather ask for advice than leave her to it, how long should i expect her to go without eating? should i spray her every few days or just leave her alone, only reason i ask is she sometimes sleeps under the heat lamp but i cant turn it off because of my other female she shares the tank with.
Any help anyone can offer would be wonderful, she is my baby and just want whats best for her.
Thanks
antony


----------



## rick01

It can take up to 3 months before she'll start eating again so don't worry and spraying her will do nothing other than expose her to the risk of respiritory infections. Food will already be in the viv for your other dragon so just let her decide herself when she feels hungry again.

Rick


----------



## Breadrun

Hi, great post but i have a question...reading this made me a little worried as my beardie never really brumates, yes he slows down in the winter and is a bit darker most the time and sleeps more but as soon as he has his food he gets the same as he always is, sitting high on his rock with bright colours and alert, in your post you say to do what your dragon wants which i think would be to have him live how he always lives, id feel a little guilty to know he was in a dark shoebox somewhere because knowing what he is like i dont think he would like it, he's quite happy going the odd week in winter just in one spot with one eye open but after about a week he will perk up again, what do you think, should all beardies brumate or is it kinda up to them like my one is, saying this hoever i do realise every lizard is different, for instance some owners have a strict time to turn lights/heating off and on but my beardie kinda acts like me, he will normally stay up while im up (sometimes 4am) or if he is sleep he will let me know by going int he corner of his viv at usually about 11pm, sorry to kinda change the subject i just wanted to let you know that my beardie is perhaps a little different to others, thanks for ur help


----------



## xander1796

*brumation or just plain lazy ?*

my 12 month old beardie rheah is going through this exact same thing, he eats well, basks for a few hours by himselmself then sleeps the day way and when i get up in the morning he's still asleep lol but i have to admit that this thread has really put my mind at ease since it does seem quite common. his temps are perfect, he had his 6month check up only amonth ago and he looks like a picture of health but i'm beginning to thing he's just awee lazy bugger lol :lol2:


----------



## caoboth

Im guessing my beardie norbert is going through his first brumation however hes only around the 12 month old mark. From what i read i assummed that he would pass over this year due to his age.

He does get up and walk around a little but then sits back down for some sleep.

Andy


----------



## Emjay

My Beardie is now brumating! No more lizard hugs for a while


----------



## kerryrep22

great sticky! just found this, cos this is exactly what my male beardie is doing, he is an adult, so safe to brumate. 

So, seems to be lots of differing advice on here, so what do I do. Can I just turn the light and the heat off in the viv, and leave him to sleep in his hide, is it safe for him to not have UV for a couple of months? Room temps rarely drop that far below 20 oc, so is that gonna be ok? cheers


----------



## rick01

You reduce heat and light level over a few weeks, make sure he's had a good clean out and switch everything off for a couple of months and cover the viv then reverse the procedure as he starts waking. The lack of UV wont hurt as he slows his metabolism right down during that period.

Rick


----------



## Chef

Wow what a read.. Great thread guys and girls got all the info i need now..


----------



## Dorkins

rick01 said:


> You reduce heat and light level over a few weeks, make sure he's had a good clean out and switch everything off for a couple of months and cover the viv then reverse the procedure as he starts waking. The lack of UV wont hurt as he slows his metabolism right down during that period.
> 
> Rick


sorry to keep labouring the point but like everybody else just need to get it right, we have a 5 year old beardy and this is the first time he has gone into brumation, he started about 6 weeks ago weighing around 600grms, he has emptied his gut and not fed, during this time we have not reduced heat or light (36deg. and 12 hours) he has lost about 100grms, (I assume due to metabolic rate still being relatively high because of temps) having read all previous posts and with thanks for all this info. should we now reduce his light and temps? or leave him to continue as he is.
Truly grateful for all the help given by contributers on this forum


----------



## daviey boy

ok this post has made me feel a lil better so thanks brat ,, as i was thinking about a trip to the vet !! my beardie is 19 months old and over the last month has become less an less interested in his food he is not taking any veg at all but manages to eat a large locust or 2 a day an takes a little water with it, the last couple of days he has taken to not even moving from the floor inbetween the cool an hot end, he is pooing was every couple of days but this is now his 3rd day without pooing.. he doesnt even make it to his hammock which he normally loves , i still have his temps at between 95 an 105 hot end basking spot an 80 cool end , ive only had him for 3 months so still learning should i be reducing these temps an what is a safe first drop of temp ? i have a 150 watt bulb for heat and a uv light which are both on for a bout 10 - 11 hours aday at night with no lioght or heat his temps hit about 60 or just under also he has always been kept on a rubber mat in his viv so i followed suit but a couple of weeks ago i noticed he was scratching at the side of the tank in the corner day after day ?/ i think he may have been trying to dig to berry himself ??? should i introduce some kiln sand or substrate any help will be greatly apprieciated, thanks once again the above thread has made me feel a lil better as its seems he is begginning to bruminate ..


----------



## rick01

Daviey - It's really too late for you to start lowering temps now as normally you'd be waking him again mid~late Feb. so for this year at least just leave the temps alone. Do get a fecal float done as internal parasites can also cause loss of appetite (although with your current weather brumation is the more likely cause). I'm not buying into a debate on substrate other than to say that I keep all mine on a mix of sand and sandstone giving them a variety of surfaces to exercise on.

Dorkins - if he's lost that sort of weight I'd get him checked over by a vet. Even with the combination of little food and high temps I feel that 100 gms is a large loss. 

Rick


----------



## thetomahawkkid58

how long can the brumation period last ?, our max has been in his cave for over three months :gasp:, only coming out once or twice..........he still looks very very healthy.......and he's got two lovely ladies waiting on him.


----------



## rick01

Over here it seems to bearound 3 months. With the weather you're getting I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to wake yet! If you are concerned you could start to wake him by slowly increasing the temps and then putting lights on for a few hours each day - do this over a period of weeks and he should brighten up OK.

Rick


----------



## thetomahawkkid58

many thanks, it has been very cold over the last few weeks


----------



## Dorkins

Dorkins said:


> sorry to keep labouring the point but like everybody else just need to get it right, we have a 5 year old beardy and this is the first time he has gone into brumation, he started about 6 weeks ago weighing around 600grms, he has emptied his gut and not fed, during this time we have not reduced heat or light (36deg. and 12 hours) he has lost about 100grms, (I assume due to metabolic rate still being relatively high because of temps) having read all previous posts and with thanks for all this info. should we now reduce his light and temps? or leave him to continue as he is.
> Truly grateful for all the help given by contributers on this forum


Like many readers of this particular thread, I have had my mind put at rest by the excellent posts and advice posted here but I think a word of caution would not go amiss, I have quoted my own post to make this point, our beardy was going through all the typical signs of brumation or so we thought but then I was becoming a little concerned, there was something that just did not look right, an emergency, 11pm visit to the vet (specialist) proved I was right to have concerns, it turned out that our beardy had a mass on his liver, he didn't make it. A lot of readers here are really concerned about brumation and are now a lot happier because of the posts here and I really do not want to cause worry again but do satisfy youself it is brumation if your gut instincts tell you something does not look right, then get the beardy checked out, in our case it would not have made any difference, I am certain he went into brumation, like all creatures that are predated on they will hide any illness until they can no longer conceal it so please be vigilant evn when they are supposed to be sleeping!


----------



## rick01

This is a very valid point and illustrates why you need to know your beardie and its habits well. Maintaining a weight chart as a health guide is a good starting point as any sudden large loss (or gain) is a fair indicator that there may be a problem needing veterinary attention.

Rick


----------



## Razaiel

Back to this topic again (and what a Godsend!) :notworthy:

What's the longest dragons should brumate for?

Just dug out 2 of my rankins beginning this week - female had been down since 1st October so reckoned I ought to try and wake her up a bit (5 months seems a long time). 

Lights been going back on plus brand new UV tube - I've been getting her out and putting her in the cooler part but where she can see the light so hopefully will start to come out properly.

Is it 1 or 2 weeks to wait before starting to feed? I was wondering if I can start off giving them just one or two locusts then sticking them on the basking rock to make sure they digest properly (and making sure they stay there awhile).


----------



## Antw23uk

Yep time to wake up now ... a bit behind to be honest!

Slowly but surely bring up the temps. Make sure they dont have anywhere to hide so they either have the option of cool end or warm/ basking end ... but no hiding places.

Give them a nice soak to help hydrate them (I still shudder when giving that advice but its the one time i do recommend bathing them) and aim to offer them food about 7-10 days later. During this time bring the temps up slowly, no need to rush, if it takes you two weeks it takes you two weeks! Judge feeding by your dragons, only you can tell when they will be ready but your right in offering a little at a time to start.

Personally i DONT see the point in moving them to cool end or basking ends .... if they have legs they can decide themselves and if there body is telling them to bask then they will go there, if not, leave them :2thumb:


----------



## rick01

Can't go past Ant's reply - I would say that my experience with the real (Australian) versions only has them brumating for around 3 months, after that they soon get restless. Once they start moving around I then do as Ant has suggested - slowly increase the temps and feed once they're at a reasonable basking temp.

Rick


----------



## Razaiel

Thank you both. Yes I felt the 5 months was too long - she's only lost 3g though - the female who went down last (and has only brumated 2 months) seems to have lost 6g!! I started increasing temps a couple of weeks ago and just put on the full set of lights beginning of this week. I had to get them out of their hide and put them among the foliage in the cool end (so it wasn't too much of a shock to their system). They've been having baths and looking a lot more alert so will probably commence a few small locusts or waxies this weekend in the morning so they have plenty of time to digest them. Hope I'm doing everything right! 

Had to laugh at them having their legs - and I agree - I don't normally shift lizards around (they're lazy enough!) but wanted to jump-start the waking up process a bit as the female had been under for so long. She is actually the one looking most alert yesterday : victory:


----------



## robbo1985

i have just moved my BD to a new home on 16th feb, he wanst happy with the move and he wouldnt eat much at all, only the odd few crick to start with, after about 2 weeks he was eating around 8 -11 cricks one day then not eating for a few, the past 3 - 4 days he has had nothing till this morning when he eaten 11 cricks. he hasnt been moving about much also, i changed his uv tube as it was due to be changed 3 days ago.

he hasnt had many poo's since the the 16th feb, hes only had around 3.
and over this time he has been losing his color, i have not been able to get any zoo med's reptile vitamins down him as he turns his nose up at veg and cricks that is dusted.

also for the past few days hes just been very lazy and now he is starting to sleep behind is rock at the hot end,

any advise would be grate.

also sometime his poo's are quite runny

also BD is around 12 - 13 months old

Regards
Robert


----------



## robbo1985

also he is very active in the morning and lazy in afternoone


----------



## Amzee

Yeah, I am certain after reading this topic that's what my beardie is doing, he's now a year old and has barely eaten for a few weeks, i found this great page with some useful tips about brumation, and its got a good schedule which im gonna give a try, he tends to just lie in the corner, opening his eyes and maybe moving into a better position...hope it helps (if it hasn't been posted already) 

Exclusive Dragons - Bearded Dragon Brumation


----------



## rick01

Given that you are now moving into spring I wouldn't expect your beardies to be entering brumation Robbo, it's more liklely that he's upset with the move and is not settling yet. He may also need to be checked for internal parasites as these will produce similar symptoms.
Amzee - if your guy has been doing this since maybe December then it probably is brumation, but if it's only just started you need to at least get a fecal float done to check for parasites.

Rick


----------



## virginbudge

is it just beardies or rankins as well


----------



## Wrench

A very interesting and informative post. I think research should be done before attempting to mimic the winter months so that your bearded dragon gets the best possible care. If you research around the subject you will have a better understanding of it. My bd was a year old in feb and is still abit sleepy and over the last few days hasnt had much food but he is starting to get back into the swing of things and take a bit more food on. Thanks for the post.


----------



## BobNTed

Really interesting topic 

My guys are doing something similar. They both seem to be sleeping all the time (or a lot of the time) in the cold ends, normally in a shaded part. 1 seems to be eating fine, whereas the other seems to only want hoppers and will turn her scaley little nose up at anything that is green or wriggles rather than hops.

It's been particular warm recently and been keeping their temps normal, and it is still relatively warm.

Oh and they are only about 6 months or so. They're both in good health (according to vets). Any ideas on what it is?


----------



## rick01

Unless you're having a long spell of cold weather I wouldn't expect this behaviour now. I would be getting a fecal float done as an overload of coccidia and/or pinworm will have this effect.
Have you re-checked your temps, if these have slipped back a little this can also cause constant drowsiness.

Rick


----------



## Sydnie

Roblea87 said:


> Hello, your post about brumation made me feel a little better but I'm still a little worried. You mention it is uncommon with Beardies that are still young. My beardie is just over 12 months old and these past two weeks has become very lazy and uninterested in food. He does, however, still get up to go for the occassional drink. He is not climbing up onto his favourite basking spot during the day, he just lies in his sleeping spot and insists on sleeping during the day (the most he will do is open one eye to look at you if you go to check him out). I'm inclined to believe this is the beginning of his brumation but what do you think?
> 
> Any feedback would be great, thanks
> 
> Roblea87


I was so worried about litttle sydnie he had had a mouth infection but still was being lazy and not eating all the signs of brumation. but he is only over a year old. Just come back from a week end away (my friend looked after him didnt leave him to starve :lol2 and when I looked at him I thought wtf then realised his skin was peeling! never felt so releieved. He was ok! And he was very happy in the bath I gave him didnt want to get out! He looks funny bless him but at least I know he will be back to himself soon-hope this helps xx


----------



## Remerezz

My beardies, Sebastian and Pandora, do this every year. In fact Sebastian hides if it is overcast or rains! I have never worried about it because he more than makes up for it later! Little... :lol2:

Good to make people aware though :2thumb:

D


----------



## SpeckledGecko

i dnt even keep beardies but that was a very
interesting read. im sure this info will be useful
to many people.


----------



## Sydnie

mine is just having his second, now what to expect this time. Gave him a bath yesturday and he perked up, came home today and he looked so funny all peeling off his face, a warm bath and I pulled it away and the watr seemed to loosen more off and i stripped some off his back (I know not supposed to) left him to soak put him back in viv then gave him 4 locust and dont know what i did right he has been jumping round all night!


----------



## Mia

Good thread.


----------



## windymiller

*A little more detail...*

Great thread and a good read. When I did a search for more info I came across this article which goes into a little more detail so I thought I'd post a link seeing as there are quite a few worried "Brumate Virgins" at the moment posting with concerns...

http://www.exclusivedragons.com/Brumation.html

Hope it helps...

windy


----------



## Antw23uk

An interesting article, thanks for posting. My beardie brumates every year and she is dead to the world for a few months ... its lovely :whistling2: :lol2:


----------



## Jeffers3

This is a very interesting article, but there's a few things I either don't understand, or I'm missing something...

If you decide to induce brumation, as I understand it, this can be done by changing the circadian rythmn - ie lowering the amount of light. Then, the temps can be lowered to reduce the metabolism further.

As far as I can tell, unless this is done, there is no "trigger" for brumation, so it shouldn't occur. Unless the ambient light levels in the room are able to change enough to affect light levels in the viv, I don't see how brumation can happen due to seaonal changes. Also, I suspect that most people will have lights on in the house anyway when it gets dark.

Also, I use a heater and a thermostat, so the temps are constant (or reasonably so). They do drop at night, but the temperature in our house doesn't change that much during winter. 

Other reasons for brumation that I've seen include air pressure changes. Unfortunately, air pressure changes during summer and winter and the air temperature is only partially responsible directly on the pressure (temperature gradients are also important, not just absolute temp).

I've read things in this thread that brumation should occur in "winter" and that it's "too late" to induce brumation. Surely, this is an artificial concept when we are controlling the heating and lighting conditions? If they were being kept outside, it would make sense, but the viv has it's own "climate" and is even inside another "climate" provided by the room it's in.

I've also read in places that bearded dragons have a "body clock" that knows when it is winter. If they were all born in or around the same month, that may be possible (but unlikely in artificial climate conditions). However, they are all captive bred in this country and are born throughout the year. Also, if they had this amazing body clock, they would brumate during the Northern hemisphere summer!

Looking at the above, it seems to me that the most likely cause of non-deliberately induced brumation must be the temperature drop in the viv at night, maybe assisted by subtle light level cues. I'm not, however, very convinced by the light levels as a cause, as they are pretty stable.

One thing that nobody seems to have mentioned (although I may have missed it - there's a lot of posts!), is that UV lights drop in intensity over time. I change mine every 6 months, but could this be the missing trigger? Maybe, it's part of the picture only and that it is during winter that the drop in UV intensity, coupled to a night-time temp change, is responsible?

Anyway, sorry for the long post. It's the result of another discussion I was having on here that I've been thinking about overnight!


----------



## Ryan_S106

Just reading through that and I'm really not sure if mine is going through this 'Brumation' 

Basically I am unsure the sex as I have only had her for 6 days but she/he puffs her/his beard out and it looks like a wave but it's more of a twitch with her left arm.

She/he, at night, will go into her/his little hide type thing andwill stay there all night and all day, I rang my local pet shop up and they told me just to move her/him the the warm side and see what happens. So I did this and she hardly moved all day from where I placed her/him. She/he refuses to eat greens and her live food, but with her livefood she/he has eaten 4, but I have placed them right in front of her/him. They have been right in front of her/him and I have put them in front of him/her but she is sorta picky when she/he wants to eat even though they are the same thing, Locusts.

She/he literally refuses to eat his/her greens, they have been cucumbers to lettuce to salad to cabbage to carrots to apples, and nothing.

Oh and one other thing that is a little off the subject. I dust the veg with Nutrobal, do I need to do it with the locusts aswell ?

Thank you very much for your time and help

Ryan


----------



## ephiedoodle

windymiller said:


> Great thread and a good read. When I did a search for more info I came across this article which goes into a little more detail so I thought I'd post a link seeing as there are quite a few worried "Brumate Virgins" at the moment posting with concerns...
> 
> Exclusive Dragons - Bearded Dragon Brumation
> 
> Hope it helps...
> 
> windy


i found this very helpful,as i think Bert is going to have the first one.
many thanks for posting this.


----------



## Ryan_S106

ephiedoodle said:


> i found this very helpful,as i think Bert is going to have the first one.
> many thanks for posting this.


 

Same, unbelievably helpful


----------



## Jeffers3

This was one of the articles I read before my earlier post. Interesting as it is, it doesn't really address the issue of why Beardies spontaneously brumate, but focusses on how we can induce brumation when we believe it is about to happen.

I'd like to see some evidence that brumation is necessary or unnecessary, good or bad. It's good to hear people's opinions, but unfortunately that's all they are.

Anybody seen any proper studies on this?


----------



## rick01

All I can really say is that having brumated regularly for a few million years I really don't see that 30~40 years of captive breeding would remove such a deep seated instinct. Observation alone will show that at a certain time each year most dragons will start a slow-down and rather than fight this surely it is better to try to accommodate what is a natural part of their life cycle. If you re-read my original post I don't suggest that you induce brumation but provide a background for the slowdown seen every year and a way to accommodate this event.

Rick


----------



## Draig

My old LG slows down each year, but this year he has started early, bit worried!! temps are all fine. Does anyone no how to prompt him to eat???


----------



## rick01

If he's decided to brumate then why not let him? It is winter effectively and I don't think anything you do will really change his mind.

Rick


----------



## Draig

Thank you, was just worried as it was early for him. Thank you again for the reasurance x


----------



## Jeffers3

rick01 said:


> All I can really say is that having brumated regularly for a few million years I really don't see that 30~40 years of captive breeding would remove such a deep seated instinct. Observation alone will show that at a certain time each year most dragons will start a slow-down and rather than fight this surely it is better to try to accommodate what is a natural part of their life cycle. If you re-read my original post I don't suggest that you induce brumation but provide a background for the slowdown seen every year and a way to accommodate this event.
> 
> Rick


If this was true, they would brumate during our summer. I do agree, however, that it may be best to encourage brumation. However, as far as I can tell, nobody really knows for sure about this. In their vivs, the "natural" cycle of seasons is almost non-existant in many modern houses, where even the winter temps don't change much.


----------



## rick01

Jeffers3 said:


> If this was true, they would brumate during our summer. I do agree, however, that it may be best to encourage brumation. However, as far as I can tell, nobody really knows for sure about this. In their vivs, the "natural" cycle of seasons is almost non-existant in many modern houses, where even the winter temps don't change much.


 For your argument to hold true the European birds which have been introduced here would all nest in Autumn and I'm afraid that both they and introduced mammals have ignored you and do their reproduction in our springtime. As for artificial seasons - anything reproduced in a viv does not and cannot include varying barometric pressures and other triggers which indicate a change in natural seasons. Simple observation has to show that dragons in general follow the natural seasons based on the hemisphere that thye are in.

Rick


----------



## rick01

Just to add - whilst this is an interesting conversation I don't think that we are going to solve this to the satisfaction of either of us. Generally speaking I find that the simplest answer that fits a particular problem is usually the correct one and to my mind sensing a combination of exterior factors indicating autumn fits rather neatly. 
Best bet here would be to meet half way, say Singapore (I know it isn't halfway but I do like it there) and continue the discussion over a beer !

Rick


----------



## Antw23uk

You have hit the nail on the head Rick with this one. Brumation is a natural cycle for beardies but having been in captivity for the last 30-40 years you can see how some may have lost the 'drive' to brumate just like some females wont produce eggs if they havent been with a male.

My female beardie is textbook each and every year i can tell you she will start to slow down around October time and generally goes into full out brumation mid to late November. When she starts to stir the following year i can guarentee you she will start popping out eggs within a couple of months even though she has never been with or anywhere near a male.

I dont think its about encouraging them to brumate, its about reading the signs, knowing your animals and 'going with the flow' if they do decide to slow down for the winter.

Bug is now oficially out for the count until next year .. i always joke its my favourite time of the year for owning a beardie :whistling2:


----------



## kerrithsoden

does anybody know if frilled dragons brumate? mine is not slowing down at all so i havent attempted to reduce daylight hours


----------



## Razaiel

One of my females actually went down in mid-end August - really early! Anyone else's go down that early? The other two have only been down since beginning and mid-October.

I have a frilly too - she didn't brumate last year (first year I had her and she was 18 months old then) and shows no sign of doing so now.


----------



## Antw23uk

If they are showing no signs of slowing down then just continue as you are and keep enjoying your animal every month of the year :2thumb:


----------



## Lady J

*Brumation.*

_Hi, Thank you for giving every one that info, I live in Essex ,England and had come across the word brumation but had no luck finding out exactly what it meant.I have one dragon rocketing about breathing fire at everything but the other one seems very subdued,I decided to try and listen to her behaviour and brumation seems likely._
_It would be lovely to see a short film of beardies in there natural habitat if you know any links._
_Thanks again._
_lady J._


----------



## jools99

*Makes sense but still very worried*

Sounds like Puddin approx 3 yrs is doing this! but my main concern is that he looks a bit bony and has a lot of loose skin! We have had him over a week now and he hasn't eaten his previous owner died suddenly we were wondering if they pine ?? As it is freezing here at the moment i wouldn't want to turn his heating off! Beardie is about 2 and she is running round like good un and shows no sign of slowing down. What to do??


----------



## Meko

jools99 said:


> Sounds like Puddin approx 3 yrs is doing this! but my main concern is that he looks a bit bony and has a lot of loose skin! We have had him over a week now and he hasn't eaten his previous owner died suddenly we were wondering if they pine ??


they do take a while to settle in to a new environment. So it could just be getting used to everything being different.



> As it is freezing here at the moment i wouldn't want to turn his heating off! Beardie is about 2 and she is running round like good un and shows no sign of slowing down. What to do??


ok, you don't want to turn the heating off.. how are you heating it? if you're using a spot bulb are you leaving it on 24/7?


----------



## m1n1mumma

can some one help me plz i think my lizard is dead he was fine yesturday he beard has gone black i cant tell if his breathin but some1 suggested he might be hibanating but not sure i tryed starting a thread about this but ive only been told to keep him in his viv for a couple of days to see if he comes around i dnt want to put him in a box for hibanating if his gone


----------



## jools99

hi Meka,

Many thanks for your reply

Yep I have been told could be taking time to settle in! But the folds of loose skin are worrying! Lighting is on for 12 hrs Heat is on thermostat control at 105 basking end.


----------



## rick01

m1n1mumma said:


> can some one help me plz i think my lizard is dead he was fine yesturday he beard has gone black i cant tell if his breathin but some1 suggested he might be hibanating but not sure i tryed starting a thread about this but ive only been told to keep him in his viv for a couple of days to see if he comes around i dnt want to put him in a box for hibanating if his gone


They don't just go into brumation like that. If he appears lifeless, floppy when you pick him up absolutely no movement you should get a vet to check for a heartbeat it's probably the only accurate way of deciding if he's dead or not. 

"hi Meka,

Many thanks for your reply

Yep I have been told could be taking time to settle in! But the folds of loose skin are worrying! Lighting is on for 12 hrs Heat is on thermostat control at 105 basking end."

Jools - you are allowing the heat to drop overnight - 16C is OK and they must have this to get adequate sleep. I'd also guess that he's still settling in.

Rick


----------



## m1n1mumma

got him checked his gone


----------



## Ninjanai

*Any way of checkin on them when they're sleepin?*

Hi
My male beardie is now sleeping full time, i dont want to bother him, but I'm paranoid and I was wondering if there is any way to check if he's ok.


----------



## rick01

Not really if he's well and truly out to it I'm afraid. At times when you look in the container they'll look at you with a sort of "go away I'm sleeping" attitude but that's about it.

Rick


----------



## Ninjanai

*Thanks*

Awwh, well ill keep an eye out for that look. Thanks!


----------



## Lady J

I was very interested and said so,perhaps other mail isn't getting through to you either..Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Lady J.


----------



## fran2491

hi all had most of my beardies sleeping full time for about 6 weeks now,just wondering if anyone knows the score with chinese water dragons? hes about 3 years old now and never shown a interest in brumating before, this year though he has just slept on his shelf for the last 2 weeks! debating if i should turn his lights of and give him a cosy box like the rest:whip: he has never been a big eater but hasnt eaten now for around 4 weeks:devil: also he has mbd never brumated a dragon with mbd before are there any implications? tar for any help :flrt:


----------



## 15060

I think this effects most lizards and i dont do it to my lizards as we find if it isnt done properly then it can do more harm then good as long as temperatures remain the same they shouldnt really know the difference

looblylous daughter lily


----------



## beardie_lover25

very interesting reading


----------



## Razaiel

How long might rankins dragons brumate for? One of mine (adult) has been brumating since August (she started really early this year!). I've now started upping temps and taking her out of the hide/box during the day and popping her up on her rocks (in the cooler side) until she disappears again. At this time she will stay awake awhile then disappear after an hour or two. She hasn't lost much weight (about 5g) and looks well. Should I be doing this or let her do it all on her own? I'm worried as I think 5 months is too long for a dragon - though tegus (but not mine) will apparently brumate for six months in winter.


----------



## andy1234

My little fella (rankins) went down about august time too and has just come out the last couple of days i just left him to it just checked he was still alive every now and then but apart from that he was left to it he hardly lost any weight if any thing he looks bigger he is still abit dozy but seems fine.


----------



## Razaiel

Thanks, Andy - good to hear that - I thought mine was a bit of a weirdo going to sleep so early they're normally later than that. She still looks the same and no thinner. She's stayed out now since I got her out this morning so looks like she's back with us again!


----------



## Linkj93

My beardie went in to brumation, she woke up and a week later she layed eggs lol.


----------



## Antw23uk

Linkj93 said:


> My beardie went in to brumation, she woke up and a week later she layed eggs lol.


Oh yes that joy of joys :whip: Bug drives me nuts when she is laying. Two clutches a year straight after brumation guarenteed ... Grrr :lol2:

Ps .. your obviously doing something right if she is acting so natural :2thumb:


----------



## Magical Trevor

*frog eyed gecko's*

hi, i have a pair of Tibetan frog eyed gecko's and i was wondering if they brumate? the female is normally active but the male normally hides in the dark and doesn't seem to eat much, there arent a lot of care sheets on these guys so im a little uncertain, any advice would help 
thanks


----------



## Variola

Hello to all

Thanks for the info on this thread!
I am a new beardy owner... well actually it is my daughters ( she is 16) but I am quite taken with him 
He is a ( I think) fully or near fully grown adult beardy, who came from a woman complete with viv etc who was moving house. He has one back foot missing due to a calcium deficiency when he was a baby, and she said he is about 18 months old now. 

I have been avidly reading up on beardies, and was concerned he maybe going into brumation already, but I have come to the conclusion he is just having a sulk because of the move and because we have altered his viv. ( added some climbing furniture and a bigger cave) 

According to the lady he came from, he doesn't eat crickets as he isn't quick enough to catch them ( due to back foot missing) so his diet is mainly worms, and favourite veg is cabbage. However we have had him 5 days now, and in that time he has only eaten 1 moia worm and doesn't seem to have touched any veg. ( I put out fresh every day) 
The temps in the viv are fine, UVb bulb is still newish and lights are on for 14 hrs a day. He did do one big poo, which looked normal ( I googled for pics of beardy poo!) 

After reading the posts I am much less panicked that he isn't eating now, and less worried about hydration too.I think it is him just adjusting. He is alert, handles fine and looks healthy. He basks, goes to cool off and likes his climbing branch. 
I am going to continue putting veg out, and offer him worms couple of times a day, and I think instigate a handling ban for a few days too to let him settle. I will also buy some decent gauges ( viv came with those sticky on strip ones) to check temps both ends. 
Is there anything else I can do? 

Thanks :2thumb:


----------



## Razaiel

He sounds just like my eldest daughter's beardie! Stumpy also has a back foot missing and a kink at the end of his tail. He was rescued as a baby from a useless pet shop part of a garden centre who had no clue - he was put in a small unheated faunarium out back ("because he didn't look good with a missing foot!") with 3 others that were not well. We took them all in sadly the other 3 died, but Stumpy survived.

He's now about 14 months old and despite his missing foot is extremely good at chasing down various insects (including crickets and fast-moving lobster roaches) - so don't give up on the crickets : victory:






Variola said:


> Hello to all
> 
> Thanks for the info on this thread!
> I am a new beardy owner... well actually it is my daughters ( she is 16) but I am quite taken with him
> He is a ( I think) fully or near fully grown adult beardy, who came from a woman complete with viv etc who was moving house. He has one back foot missing due to a calcium deficiency when he was a baby, and she said he is about 18 months old now.
> 
> I have been avidly reading up on beardies, and was concerned he maybe going into brumation already, but I have come to the conclusion he is just having a sulk because of the move and because we have altered his viv. ( added some climbing furniture and a bigger cave)
> 
> According to the lady he came from, he doesn't eat crickets as he isn't quick enough to catch them ( due to back foot missing) so his diet is mainly worms, and favourite veg is cabbage. However we have had him 5 days now, and in that time he has only eaten 1 moia worm and doesn't seem to have touched any veg. ( I put out fresh every day)
> The temps in the viv are fine, UVb bulb is still newish and lights are on for 14 hrs a day. He did do one big poo, which looked normal ( I googled for pics of beardy poo!)
> 
> After reading the posts I am much less panicked that he isn't eating now, and less worried about hydration too.I think it is him just adjusting. He is alert, handles fine and looks healthy. He basks, goes to cool off and likes his climbing branch.
> I am going to continue putting veg out, and offer him worms couple of times a day, and I think instigate a handling ban for a few days too to let him settle. I will also buy some decent gauges ( viv came with those sticky on strip ones) to check temps both ends.
> Is there anything else I can do?
> 
> Thanks :2thumb:


----------



## Industrial

Mine woke up 3 days ago (was showing signs as early as August but wasn't until the end of November that he decided enough was enough and hid himself away for a proper sleep), yesterday and today he's being extremley active and trashing his viv, never seen him move so much, then today I saw him head bobbing, first time since last summer, I think his head might fall off he's doing it so much:lol2:


----------



## ephiedoodle

Berts still sleeping.
i took him out to change his viv and give it a good clean,
i covered him over with a cloth,all went well until i put him back,
i put him in the same place but facing the other direction,scratching and shifting went on until i realized what he was trying to do,i picked him up
moved him to the same position he was in when sleeping,and he went
straight back off.


----------



## sin1904

*brumation or not happy with me?!!*

I have a beared dragon, a Rankin 3 years old and is either sulking or trying to go to sleep.

She has cleared herself out and has hidden under a load of newspaper and looks doppy.

1 week ago i did move her to another viv because the other female i have was trying to lay eggs. 

Could she be sulking or is she trying t sleep, its nearing the end of february now surely she should be waking up???

Please can someone help!! 

Zoe




2 female bearded dargons, 1 is a rankin.
1 male dragon.
1 dog
2 kids.


----------



## ephiedoodle

Burts awake,and basking,gone from a grey colour back
to his usual sandy colouring,ate some big wax worms,and i'm sure
he's yeying the locus that i put in too,is there anything else i need
to do for him,as this is my first experiance with a beardy coming out of
brumation.
many thanks.:2thumb:


----------



## kittenks

*worried 1st time beardie owner*

Hello - i have had my beardie since december last year - i got him/her(not sure of its sex so we call her Sonic) when she was about 4-6 weeks old. Sonic has always fed well (lots of Locust, few waxworms, apple and wild rocket - doesnt like any other veg!) but in the last 2-3 weeks has gone off her food, hides in her little house and hardly comes out! It is late october here in the uk. The room in which sonic is in gets very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter, so this summer i changed her bulb to a 40w (for 12 hrs) and as its got cooler outside up to a 60w(for 8hrs) (plus the uv) i was worried about her not eating so i went to the pet store where i got her from they said that i should change her bulb to a 100w and see how she is in 48hrs - i did this and she did eat a little wild rocket - but i was still worried - so i called a different pet shop (for exotic pets) and they said this is normal as she is going into brumation. - After reading this post i now feel a little better - however, can you please tell me if i should keep the 100w bulb in or change to a lower one or to turn lights off altogether??! also, she wont let me touch her - every time i go to stroke her she opens her mouth and does a little hiss at me - which she has never done before! Do you think i should get her checked out ? although i'm not sure how i'd get her out of the tank while she's hissing at me - dont want to distress her and get bitten!

All comments welcome - i love her to pieces and dont want anything bad to happen to her !


----------



## Jeffers3

kittenks said:


> Hello - i have had my beardie since december last year - i got him/her(not sure of its sex so we call her Sonic) when she was about 4-6 weeks old. Sonic has always fed well (lots of Locust, few waxworms, apple and wild rocket - doesnt like any other veg!) but in the last 2-3 weeks has gone off her food, hides in her little house and hardly comes out! It is late october here in the uk. The room in which sonic is in gets very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter, so this summer i changed her bulb to a 40w (for 12 hrs) and as its got cooler outside up to a 60w(for 8hrs) (plus the uv) i was worried about her not eating so i went to the pet store where i got her from they said that i should change her bulb to a 100w and see how she is in 48hrs - i did this and she did eat a little wild rocket - but i was still worried - so i called a different pet shop (for exotic pets) and they said this is normal as she is going into brumation. - After reading this post i now feel a little better - however, can you please tell me if i should keep the 100w bulb in or change to a lower one or to turn lights off altogether??! also, she wont let me touch her - every time i go to stroke her she opens her mouth and does a little hiss at me - which she has never done before! Do you think i should get her checked out ? although i'm not sure how i'd get her out of the tank while she's hissing at me - dont want to distress her and get bitten!
> 
> All comments welcome - i love her to pieces and dont want anything bad to happen to her !


What is the temperature in the viv? You need a thermostat and a thermometer. If you have a 100W bulb un-statted, it could be getting very hot in the viv. I'm not surprised he/she is a bit miffed!

Your beardie is about a year old, judging by what you've said. It should be easy to tell what sex it is by now. Once you've finished cooking it, have a look at the region near the cloaca. A male will have two hemipenes and a row of anal pores.


----------



## Lady J

*Hi,*

Hi,I didn't write the original text you replied to ,I don't have a clue how it came under my name,any how,..My female dragons were 3 when I got them and didn't brumate till the second year,it was the end of November and went on for around 2 months,when they woke Rocket became very aggressive and i had to separate them this was because she didn't want any competition should a male happen along.I thought she may be wanting to lay eggs so i prepared the box of mud ..she didnt stay in it so i prepared the tray of sand..she didnt stay in that either,eventually about 3 weeks later she laid an egg on the carpet,then another3 a few days later,eventually laying a clutch of another 30 eggs under the sofa . about a month later i thought her behaviour had calmed and introduced her to Georgie again and they have been fine ever since.
I got Georgie because I thought Rocket was lonely and i didnt want a male to mate her but i have learnt since that dragons are better on their own.I cant give you much advice except theres a reason for change in Sonics behaviour ,she may be in egg mode and warning you to back off incase a male turns up ,if so this will continue till she sleeps or lays eggs.A dragon owner I spoke to last year said you should bath your dragon every day.They sure are great swimmers but they dont like the big bath,they do however enjoy a bakeing tray shallow warm water,pop dragon in and splash gently for a few minutes ,cause they dont seem to be able to see still water,then dragon should begin to splash the water over her back like a turkey having a dirt bath,she may even drink,dragons will also usually poop in the bath before getting out,i offer mine the tray every other day.
My girls also like rocket leaves but curly kale and courgette make a healthy change,the locusts also like the kale.
your dragons poop will have a white tube beside the brown if the dragon is healthy and may only poop twice a week.
 Hope i have been of some help,if Sonic turns out to be male then the behaviour could also be teritoriel mating time .
 Good luck
 lady J.


----------



## firefly19

*Brumation*



BritishDragon said:


> The above account is very similar to mine. My female is 14 months old and during the last month I have noticed she is disinterested in food and rarely moves from her sleeping spot behind rocks. I've been gradually reducing the duration of the UV light to now 10hrs and switched to a 100W bulb from a 160W, thus bringing temps down. She is emptying her bowels perhaps only every 5 or 6 days now.
> 
> My question is:
> 
> Should I continue to reduce the duration of the UV light - or should it be off completely for a length of time/weeks. Bear in mind I don't have a separate heat source - the mercury vapour UV acts as both light and heat. If the light didn't come on at all the temps would be constantly at room temp which is 70 deg F during the day, and 62 deg F through the night.


My breeder told me to lessen the amount of UV my beardie receives during brumation but to leave her heating as it is. She doesn't hibernate completely but she is more lethargic than usual and goes to sleep earlier in the evening. She eats very little e.g one or two locusts every two or three days but no veg. I don't know how they behave in the wild but I think the Australian winter is milder than here in the UK and I don't think they should be deprived of all heat. This is only my opinion though.


----------

