# Thermo-tube vs ceramic-bulb heaters



## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

I use thermo-tubes , which are described as low wattage heaters (80watts) , which is energy efficient , IS this a cheaper way to heat large viv as opposed to using higher wattage ceramic heaters?? , i have always been able to maintain the temperatures i want as these are wired up to cobraststs , has anyone any thoughts regarding the type of set ups i use (good or bad or different) thanks:2thumb:


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

monitor mad said:


> I use thermo-tubes , which are described as low wattage heaters (80watts) , which is energy efficient , IS this a cheaper way to heat large viv as opposed to using higher wattage ceramic heaters?? , i have always been able to maintain the temperatures i want as these are wired up to cobraststs , has anyone any thoughts regarding the type of set ups i use (good or bad or different) thanks:2thumb:



(Sorry this reply got so long, but it was a question which raised some points which are interesting in many ways)

Hello,
Energy efficiency is really a measure of output over input.
If a heater absorbed 100W of electricity and produced 100W of heat then it has an efficiency of 100/100 = 1 . Am efficiency of 1 is ideal, and is normally multiplied by 100 to produce a percentage, which in this case then is 100%

When talking about heaters, the amount of heat which can be conducted to the air or radiated as infrared is what determines it's output. It may absorb 100W of electricity but it may only manage to effectively transmit 70W of that into heat in the air.

A larger heater won't necessarily cost you more to run either.
Lets say that your viv loses the equivalent of about 20 Watts all of the time, you need to replace that 20W just to be able to keep the same temperature.

you could do it with a 20W heater which is running flat out all of the time, or you could do it with a 40W heater which is running at about 50% power output. Which is the most efficient ? Well, if the heat mat is coated in a clear plastic which conducts heat very poorly, and the larger heater is , say, a metal heat tube which is painted matt black, then the most efficient heater is the heat tube in this case.

Remember that the power rating of all heaters has got nothing to do with how much heat they pass to the air, the rating only refers to how much electricity they eat. Generally there is a ralationship between the two, but it's worth remembering the difference.

Size isn't important where efficiency is concerned, and the only real measure of which is cheapest to run, without going into great lengths about how each device is built and finished, is to spend £10 at Maplins for an energy meter and actually measure the amount of electricity used each day in both cases.

For your animal's sake give them as much ventilation as they need, but remember that any more than that is a cause of wasted heat. The ideal heating for a large room or a large viv is direct air heating, like a fan heater, which circulates the air but makes it all the same temperature. but what might be possible is to heat the air with a fan heater to the minimum temperature and then apply local heating for basking areas.

I'm testing a fan heater at the moment. It's a low voltage car windscreen ice clearing heater which outputs about 100W. Coupled with a fast pulkse proportional stat it seems to be able to maintain the temperature in a 6' x 4' x 3' enclosure much more efficiently than a heat lamp system could. When I've learned a bit more about it I'll write it up 


Chris


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## robglobe (Feb 11, 2007)

I always used to use the phillips thermotubes when i kept Boas & Pythons and they are great for heating a large area on a budget.


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

many thanks for the replies and if you perfect the "windshield" heating system i wouldn't mind picking your brains , again thanks for taking time out to reply :2thumb:


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## charliet (Mar 24, 2007)

Chris,
Thanks for taking the time to post such long replies, I find your posts very informative.

Monitor mad,
I use both thermo tubes and ceramics (though now put Radiant Heat Panels into all my new enclosures, much better IMO). The only trouble I have with the thermo tubes is that they are not very responsive to the thermostats. Because the element heats oil in the tube it takes a while to warm up, and when they are turned off (for a night time drop for instance) it takes a while to cool down because the oil is still warm.


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

charliet said:


> Chris,
> Thanks for taking the time to post such long replies, I find your posts very informative.
> 
> Monitor mad,
> I use both thermo tubes and ceramics (though now put Radiant Heat Panels into all my new enclosures, much better IMO). The only trouble I have with the thermo tubes is that they are not very responsive to the thermostats. Because the element heats oil in the tube it takes a while to warm up, and when they are turned off (for a night time drop for instance) it takes a while to cool down because the oil is still warm.


Again thanks for all the information , it is all taken on board and all worth considering :2thumb:


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## Greenphase (Feb 9, 2008)

I personally use greenhouse heater tubes in my larger vivs and have found that they hold a better temp then CHE's and are much more efficient.They seem to last a lot longer than ceramics(in my case) and since using them i have noticed a small reduction in my electricity bills


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## danielb (Feb 11, 2007)

*Heaters*

I prefer tubular heaters connected to pulse stats,

I work for a electrical wholesaler so get them at cost price , and i get the exact guard to suit too, a quarter of the price of shops etc. :whistling2:

I get all my heat bulbs and ceramic lampholders dirt cheap too


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## boots_n_braces (Jan 11, 2009)

im working on a mini version of the heat exchangers eco houses have at the minute that regularly changes the air for fresh but extracts the heat from the old air first and transfers it to the fresh. i dont think it would be possible to make a commercially viable version due to the labour costs but im hoping its going to save me a fortune heating my plants


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Fascinating thread, but as yet inconclusive. Makes great reading though, :2thumb:


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## e-tradecounter (Jan 27, 2009)

charliet said:


> Chris,
> Thanks for taking the time to post such long replies, I find your posts very informative.
> 
> Monitor mad,
> I use both thermo tubes and ceramics (though now put Radiant Heat Panels into all my new enclosures, much better IMO). The only trouble I have with the thermo tubes is that they are not very responsive to the thermostats. Because the element heats oil in the tube it takes a while to warm up, and when they are turned off (for a night time drop for instance) it takes a while to cool down because the oil is still warm.


Hi, I've been reading through your posts and have found them very interesting, as the manufacturer of Thermotubes (originally Phillips Tubular Heater - we bought the rights off them 8yrs ago) we're always amazed where and how this product is used.

The comment above about the construction of our tube is not correct, we are the only manufacturer of tubular heaters that use aluminium for the tube, all the cheap Chinese imports use steel which as you all know is not a very good conductor of heat. The heating element inside the tube is a mica strip with a heating element wound around it, there is no oil inside - the reason it takes a while to cool down is because of the aluminium tube and the way it retains the heat.

You can buy our tubular heater online here and get a *5% discount* by using *rfuk *in the *Coupon Code* box at checkout.

Don't forget to have a look around our site we have hundreds of other products as well as well!


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## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

e-tradecounter said:


> Hi, I've been reading through your posts and have found them very interesting, as the manufacturer of Thermotubes (originally Phillips Tubular Heater - we bought the rights off them 8yrs ago) we're always amazed where and how this product is used.
> 
> The comment above about the construction of our tube is not correct, we are the only manufacturer of tubular heaters that use aluminium for the tube, all the cheap Chinese imports use steel which as you all know is not a very good conductor of heat. The heating element inside the tube is a mica strip with a heating element wound around it, there is no oil inside - the reason it takes a while to cool down is because of the aluminium tube and the way it retains the heat.
> 
> ...


 i think ill be using you soon once i build my new vivs still thinking of ideas using all the people on heres ideas and thinking which is best for me:2thumb:


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## Andy_WSM (Feb 1, 2009)

danielb said:


> I prefer tubular heaters connected to pulse stats,
> 
> I work for a electrical wholesaler so get them at cost price , and i get the exact guard to suit too, a quarter of the price of shops etc. :whistling2:
> 
> I get all my heat bulbs and ceramic lampholders dirt cheap too


Do tubular heaters tend to blow / wear out? I am thinking of building an outdoor enclosure soon and was thinking of fitting one of these in the hide in case the weather turns bad when the Tort is outdoors.


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

Andy_WSM said:


> Do tubular heaters tend to blow / wear out? I am thinking of building an outdoor enclosure soon and was thinking of fitting one of these in the hide in case the weather turns bad when the Tort is outdoors.


 
they are great for tortoise enclosures for keeping the chill out and also heating it up. im an electrician and have fitted lots of these in my time and have only ever replaced one or 2 that have broke so in my opinion they are very long lasting and reliable


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

One of the best all round heaters for large viv's and very reliable and in different wattage sizes you would think they were custom made for us herper's :no1:


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## Jgilbert (Jan 31, 2009)

im having trouble heating my flexarium, i thought mabe a thermotube at the bottom (as heat rises and all) coupled with a basking lamp. does this sound like a good idea? also what sort of wattage would be a good idea to use? im trying to heat a 2.5 x 1.5 x 2.5 flexarium. room temp is average 75f and i need to bring it up to aroud 85f. thanks


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## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

I love threads like this, it wont be long until someone finds a brilliant way to cut costs. The make your own thermostat thread is brilliant too.
So how can these tubes be used? Weve got snakes and lizards so how would they benefit us?


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## Nodders (May 11, 2009)

Dont know about smaller enclosures but I had one of those in my shed when I kept budgies , it kept the chill off very nicely .

Edit :OOps googled ceramic heaters and found this and replied , then after posting realised the date


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## Fence Up (May 7, 2009)

Great thread! I'm very interested in this stuff. I'm also looking in to some sort of heat exchanger, and would like to see what ideas anybody has, to share thoughts. I'm looking to save the humidity wile still bringing in fresh air. I found this if anybody is interested, not a heat exchanger but still interesting. http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/318266-good-bad-let-me-know.html#post4074144


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## Fence Up (May 7, 2009)

Any thoughts on using Peltier Plates for heating / cooling? I thinking that the hot side to add heat to the air going in, and the cold side to cool the air going out to form condensation.


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## tigerpaws (Feb 21, 2009)

Fence Up said:


> Any thoughts on using Peltier Plates for heating / cooling? I thinking that the hot side to add heat to the air going in, and the cold side to cool the air going out to form condensation.




the problem with peliter TECS is you need to heat sink one side of them... 

plus they are not that efficient as a heater/cooler. they draw massive amounts of current for the kind of applications your talking about, you will need something like 40amp peltier tecs. and you are going to need a few of them,. 

so not really a viable solution. plus the MTBF is not great. 

and they cost some wallet denting coin for a couple of 40amps of peltier's and the psu's


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## Fence Up (May 7, 2009)

MTBF ?
There are some cheep can coolers about, that has a fan heat sink power supply peliter. I don't know what the amps are. I was also thinking that it could easily be put in to reverse to cool a viv that's too hot. 
Any other ideas? I suppose its a lot easier to just keep adding the humidity.


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## tigerpaws (Feb 21, 2009)

Fence Up said:


> MTBF ?
> There are some cheep can coolers about, that has a fan heat sink power supply peliter. I don't know what the amps are. I was also thinking that it could easily be put in to reverse to cool a viv that's too hot.
> Any other ideas? I suppose its a lot easier to just keep adding the humidity.


MTBF = Mean Time Between Failures

and a can cooler/small beer fridge are only 5 or 10 amps and my OH had one and it was NOISY as F 

alan


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## e-tradecounter (Jan 27, 2009)

Hell once again. Well we have been working on the thermotube to make it better than ever and we have made a very short video (More of a slide show) to help give some users a better idea of what this tubular heater is all about.

After we put this together on the first ideas was users that have never seen a tubular heater that may have a use for them. So I hope you find it helpful.

Tubular Heater Video - YouTube

Many thanks guys.


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## Arrogant Dew (Jul 21, 2009)

Hi I have a pulse or a dimming stat would these work on the tube heater.


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## valm (Oct 29, 2007)

*Where to place thermotubes??*

Hi,

I've just read this thread and it's really informative. I've just built a 6x6x3 enclosure for an iggy. I'm now trying to sort out the heating - the thermotubes sound really good. Question is: what length/wattage and where do I place them. Obviously I need to get a guard, but is there an optimum place that allows heat circulation v somewhere the iggy won't try and lie on it?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers.


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## valm (Oct 29, 2007)

*thermo tube question*

Hi,

Sorry to ask again, but I'm really keen to get the heating installed in the 6x6x3 viv i've built asap. I need to move the iggy into it v. soon.

Please, please can someone give me some simple advice re: where's best to place thermo tubage to get the viv to a reasonable ambient temperature and what sort of strength tube I need?

:flrt:

Sorry to keep asking.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Sorry to bump an old thread, how would a 6' thermotube do at heating a 7'6" high x 6' long x 3' deep enclosure with 1 6' x 7'6" caged side the rest will be closed off by glass or wall. 

Was intending to mount it vertically at one end to allow a good gradient. Unsure if I will need one or two. Also whats the power consumption like? 

Thanks.


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