# a BIG PROJECT and you ALL could help!!



## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

im considering creating a book on all the known species of tarantulas......yeah i know..... mainly a photographic field guide to all the different families, as many species as possible!! yeah massive task! i know u all have species at home, so i would be very happy if you could email me NICE images of your adult males and females, if this gets off the ground i will give you photographic credit.

pictures to: [email protected]

please attach the latin name of the pictures u submit

thanks! will update u all regulary!!!

chris


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

So you want to create a book of everyones images and then sell this book back to these people who gave you the images in the first place? But its ok as we will be credited in the book.
How about you buy some images and recuperate the money you spent from the sales of your book. 
Sorry to sound a little harsh but it sounds from your post that all you want to do is make a little dosh from the use of other peoples work or do all the senders of such photos get a share in your book profits?

What is your part in this book going to be?


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

lol, ok ill go out and buy 800+ images of spiders then? or buy 800+ spiders and photograph them myself.
to be completely honest this is not to make money this is to produce a field guide. yeah im not rich so im not going to buy peoples images, i just thought to myself that ive never seen an actual field guide on tarantulas, and ive always wanted to create a book. and i had always wanted to see some of my images in a book and im sure some other members here would feel the same way.

great attitude tho mate


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

i guess my imput would be writing about the natural history of the species and adding a few images myself (OBT M.balfouri GBB)thanks to you who have sent some already!!


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## Sarracenia (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm just wondering, but surely there are a lot of obscure species with no photos? There are loads that look identical too...

Good luck though, it'd be a pretty useful book for going on T-hunting trips with. :2thumb:


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

without a doubt tracking down images of very rare species is gonna be difficult and time consuming..... but im a zoologist so i have alot of friends with very god connections. but the other side of the coin, there are alot of species in the hobby too : victory:


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

lol *good connections!*


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

naturechris said:


> without a doubt tracking down images of very rare species is gonna be difficult and time consuming..... but im a zoologist so i have alot of friends with *very god connections*. but the other side of the coin, there are alot of species in the hobby too : victory:





naturechris said:


> lol *good connections!*


LOL was gonna say - in that case, this should be really easy!


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## Sarracenia (Mar 20, 2008)

Ah, fair enough then. I suppose it would be a lot easier in your case, being in a job where you can find decent information.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

You could do a picture book of species that are fairly well represented in the hooby at the moment, the only problem is quite a few of them are not under the correct name right now inculding some of those quite well established in captive breeding :whistling2:

So you would be making almost purely a picture book which would call for pro level pictures in order for it to even recoup costs, which will lead to fair outlay on your own part to begin with.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

well the higher the quality the image the more likely it would make it into the book, yeah pro-photographers would like to be paid, but i know alot of people can produce high quality images. im one of them.
taxomony always changes, so if geographic infomation is correct and you have a good enough image to I.D the animal then further research would lead you to an updated name


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)




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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

naturechris said:


> i guess my imput would be writing about the natural history of the species and adding a few images myself (OBT M.balfouri GBB)thanks to you who have sent some already!!


I wont dwell on your over reactions to reasonable queries as now you have changed the book contents. Reason I asked what I asked was because what you described in the first post was a photobook in which case I personly think its just a bit bad form just to ask for other peoples photos so you can make a book out of them. Now however you wish to write about the natural history of the species shown which I think brings it into a whole new ball game. 
I would really like to help you in this, if you would like my help that is but I want to also know how serious you are about it before I share any information/photos and the like. Far too often I have seen people say I want to write a book on this or that, get sent loads of stuff and then nothing what so ever comes of it, so maybe you can forgive my queries, or maybe not?
So just a few questions for you if you don't mind.

As you know there are many tarantulas that are missidentified in the hobby so how are you going about validating the specie names given on the photos given?
To what level are your write up about the tarantulas going to be? By that I mean sub family, Genus, Species?
When you say every species do you mean in the hobby or described?
What is the plan with the undescribed ones that are in the hobby?

thanks for your time


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

i will appreciate any help!!
well, the problem of misIDing, i feel will be the largest one, the only solution will be speaking to as many people with high levels of knowledge as possible, universities where the species are native to is a good place to start i believe.
i would like to cover each genus and with as many examples of species within that as possible. all known info about life history, (which alot may come from captive animals) the end section of the book would cover the unknowns.... conservation and maybe a section on captivity, but the direction would be a global travel guide.
i understand that this is a big task and connot be completed quickly. i hate reading the wrong infomation in books!!!


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

This is not a big task it is a *massive* task lol.

Personly I would keep things simple or at least as simple as possible. Please dont think I am trying to put you off or anything but I think the task as it is, will result in a lifes work rather than a few years work if you know what I mean. In effect you could never finish the book. 

How about then doing a book on most the species of tarantula in captivity? I know this may sound as a bit of a cop out and a lowering of your sights, but truethfully how many books like this are out there? To my mind I can think of about two or three good ones and they are not in English! 

It could also prove a good idea to ask for imput of a few other English speaking forums as I am sorry to say this this one isn't the best for good spider information. The ones below seem to be the most popular and some are visited by very well known people who work in taxonomy that could also prove useful.
British Tarantula Society
Welcome to giantspiders.com!
the tarantula store main
The Venom List - For All Things Venomous! -> Tarantulas
Arachnoboards - Powered by vBulletin
Arachnophiles Forum - Powered by vBulletin
ATS Discussion Board - Powered by vBulletin
I would join them with your real name though as this would go some way show you are serious about such a task. Expect a few jibes as well from some, but I think on a whole you will get all the help you need as long as you are serious about such a project and it is not a passing fad. BTW in some cases in could prove useful to aproach someone for help instead of putting out an all round appeal. 
best of british


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## Ferret1959 (Jul 16, 2008)

If I was to send pictures I took I would expect to be paid.

Here is an example.
One photo of me holding a fish I caught sold for £50.
The man who bought it offered me the money and used the image on a fishing data base he was doing.

Have a look here to get an idea of how much images should cost.
Royalty free stock images | spiders | iStockphoto.com


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

yeah i will actually buy the spider for £50 and then photograph it. im a pretty good photographer, so this is an oppertunity for people to get an image published (possibly!)
i know people sell an image of pretty much anything, but these are for magazines ect.

if you want money sell it somewhere else
if u want your image in a book..then get involved!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

So ten years from now info I send might be in a book? 

Wow, massive task. I am in the process of simply making flashcards for the Brachypelma genus and it's taking forever to even get the species desciptions, translate them for useful info and construct locality data etc. I'm also a zoologist with access to the journals, and trust me it still takes forever. Lots of the info is basically in the minds of enthusiasts so it involves a lot of asking people to find other people to ask!


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

GRB said:


> I'm also a zoologist with access to the journals, and trust me it still takes forever.


Off topic, but remember that computer program I was working on? Yes, it's still in development, but I'm going cross platform (Linux, Win, Mac). As such, I've had to redesign many of the core elements, and will take a while before I'm ready to go Alpha.

Do you rekon I'd be able to call on you when I'm a bit further in? Your journal access would be a great plus for the project.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Yeah no worries. I would say that Phil tends to be the one that usually has those harder to get papers however, I'm always bugging him for pdf's!


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## mikemike118 (Aug 15, 2009)

i have two very basic tarantula's (b.smithi and g.rosea), so im guessing you have pictures already, but then again i am a rubbish photographer.

I just wish i had a m.balfouri and gbb....would definatly make my small collection complete.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

What ever happened with this? I see that no help was asked for on any of those more tarantula orientated forums so are we then to believe this was just another of those passing phases or fads people have?


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

I'll post you some pics Chris;i'm getting a new camera in a few weeks and I will be having a photo session and experiment with some different shots it'll be mainly arboreal tarantulas but I have good looking adult females of a fair few different pokies/ psalmos and different asian sp. - I don't want paying and not really overly bothered about been aknowledged for the images if they were ever to be published - but I will support the hobby as there isn't that many decent books on tarantulas around .... good luck and I'll fire you a pm when i've taken some pics.


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

i dont undersand why people demand money... surely if you were as dedicated to the hobby as most are in this forum you would happily donate photographs for the good of the hobby, think how great it would be to have a book with most of the species in, i say most because to get all the spiders into this one book is almost impossible, well it would take several years atleast. Good idea but will you be dedicated enough? i started one, but got bored and frustrated half way through so i gave up... id be happy enough to have my name in a book that could make it big time in the hobby. The pictures i sent chris took me 10 minuites at max, surely that isnt worth getting payed for, and i enjoy taking photographs of my spiders so why would i demand money for doing it.


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## mikemike118 (Aug 15, 2009)

george dobson said:


> i dont undersand why people demand money... surely if you were as dedicated to the hobby as most are in this forum you would happily donate photographs for the good of the hobby, think how great it would be to have a book with most of the species in, i say most because to get all the spiders into this one book is almost impossible, well it would take several years atleast. Good idea but will you be dedicated enough? i started one, but got bored and frustrated half way through so i gave up... id be happy enough to have my name in a book that could make it big time in the hobby. The pictures i sent chris took me 10 minuites at max, surely that isnt worth getting payed for, and i enjoy taking photographs of my spiders so why would i demand money for doing it.


couldnt of said it any better. :2thumb:


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

george dobson said:


> i dont undersand why people demand money... surely if you were as dedicated to the hobby as most are in this forum you would happily donate photographs for the good of the hobby, think how great it would be to have a book with most of the species in, i say most because to get all the spiders into this one book is almost impossible, well it would take several years atleast. Good idea but will you be dedicated enough? i started one, but got bored and frustrated half way through so i gave up... id be happy enough to have my name in a book that could make it big time in the hobby. The pictures i sent chris took me 10 minuites at max, surely that isnt worth getting payed for, and i enjoy taking photographs of my spiders so why would i demand money for doing it.


 
In agreement George - there seems to be the odd one or two people who I can see are quite obstructive at times and seem to enjoy getting on the high horse with little or no provocation.......overall it's a friendly hobby and as I said in my earlier post I for one have absolutely no issues with sending a few pics to help out:2thumb:


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

Paul c 1 said:


> In agreement George - there seems to be the odd one or two people who I can see are quite obstructive at times and seem to enjoy getting on the high horse with little or no provocation.......overall it's a friendly hobby and as I said in my earlier post I for one have absolutely no issues with sending a few pics to help out:2thumb:


yeah i agree


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## kevhutch (Feb 18, 2010)

i am creating one of these for my own personnal information , its a big task as i know as i have done quite a lot

As probably stated by someone, you are opening yourself up to contravercey, and criticisum as a lot of ID goes on what people tell you

i think i have got up to about 300 differant T's

good luck, i know you will need it:2thumb:


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## Theevilreddevil (Oct 30, 2008)

hes a picture thief some1 call the cyber police


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

hey, i am still puting a few thing together for this.... text format as wel as other aspects of the book, so its not gonna fade into the background!
im gonna have a stall at the bts so a few items of photography will be there!!


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## Theevilreddevil (Oct 30, 2008)

i got a good one of a male chile if ya want it. well i think its good anyways lol


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

That's a great picture, without a doubt it's up to the standard I'm looking for!!!:blush:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

george dobson said:


> i dont undersand why people demand money... surely if you were as dedicated to the hobby as most are in this forum you would happily donate photographs for the good of the hobby, think how great it would be to have a book with most of the species in, i say most because to get all the spiders into this one book is almost impossible, well it would take several years atleast. Good idea but will you be dedicated enough? i started one, but got bored and frustrated half way through so i gave up... id be happy enough to have my name in a book that could make it big time in the hobby. The pictures i sent chris took me 10 minuites at max, surely that isnt worth getting payed for, and i enjoy taking photographs of my spiders so why would i demand money for doing it.


Some people are very protective of their photos and they have every right to be. Just like the paparazzi sell their photos to newspapers as they know that it is their photos that help sell the newspaper, it is the same with this book. If their photos are good enough for the book than they are good enough to charge money for them.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

In November 2009 I went to the atlantic rainforest in brazil in association with the world land trust, I shot over 5000 images of which I would call 50-80 very good, I gave to copyright of these images to the world land trust and all biaza zoos, I done this because I actually care about the remaining 5% of this ecosystem and I want to inspire people to actually care too. Like I stated before I'm not rich, I'm a bloody zoo keeper earning £6 an hour.... The best I could ever offer is photo credit... If u wan money then sell the pictures to someone who has it


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm very protective over my images, but I'm happy to give them away if it's for a cause I believe in. And I'm proud I can walk into a zoo now and say... I took that photo


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

yes well thats you. And you can't expect everyone to be the same as you can you. If other people want money for their images and you can't afford to pay them for the images then its just a case of you not being able to use them. It doesn't make the owner of the images an a-hole or anything else just because they charge money for them. It also does not suggest that they do not care about what they have taken photos of. 

Ive not sent you any images yet because you have not proved you are serious about the project.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

Don't worry mate I wouldn't expect much from you, each time u write on this thread the less I'm motivated to do it anyways.


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## Pinkytoes (Jun 25, 2009)

I got a couple of my A.Avic if you dont already have some.
Just happy to help with the cause: victory:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

naturechris said:


> Don't worry mate I wouldn't expect much from you, each time u write on this thread the less I'm motivated to do it anyways.


Unbelieveable!
I have shown enough interest in your project that I bothered to ask a few basic questions about it. I have also offered advise as to where you may be able to get some more and I think probably better help on this masive task you want to set yourself(which went ignored by the looks of it) I even look out this thread again and bother to ask how its going and this is the responce. And why? Just because I can understand a few people who are not willing to part with their photos without being paid for them.
As you don't expect much from me I wont give you any of the information I myself have gathered over the years not alot I know but one thing is sure your book of every species will be missing a couple now.


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

Its up to people if they want to donate pictures or not. comparing how paparazzi sell to newspapers isnt the right comparison to use, paparazzi spend 1000s paying people to get in the way of celebrities lives to get pictures, it takes hours to get those pictures and they sell them to news papers because they wouldn't make any proffit any other way. All chris is asking for is hobbyists to send pictures of their spiders to him so he can create a decent book for the greater good of the hobby, unlike the paparazzi photos, these only took me 10 minuites and noone was paying me to take them so i do not expect anything in return. You need to stop being so derogatory, if you cared about the hobby you would happily send him some pictures/ information if you have some, to create better knowledge about these amazing creatures.



Baldpoodle said:


> Unbelieveable!
> I have shown enough interest in your project that I bothered to ask a few basic questions about it. I have also offered advise as to where you may be able to get some more and I think probably better help on this masive task you want to set yourself(which went ignored by the looks of it) I even look out this thread again and bother to ask how its going and this is the responce. And why? Just because I can understand a few people who are not willing to part with their photos without being paid for them.
> As you don't expect much from me I wont give you any of the information I myself have gathered over the years not alot I know but one thing is sure your book of every species will be missing a couple now.


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## Pinkytoes (Jun 25, 2009)

george dobson said:


> Its up to people if they want to donate pictures or not. comparing how paparazzi sell to newspapers isnt the right comparison to use, paparazzi spend 1000s paying people to get in the way of celebrities lives to get pictures, it takes hours to get those pictures and they sell them to news papers because they wouldn't make any proffit any other way. All chris is asking for is hobbyists to send pictures of their spiders to him so he can create a decent book for the greater good of the hobby, unlike the paparazzi photos, these only took me 10 minuites and noone was paying me to take them so i do not expect anything in return. You need to stop being so derogatory, if you cared about the hobby you would happily send him some pictures/ information if you have some, to create better knowledge about these amazing creatures.


Pics of my A Avic can hardly be compared to ones of Kerry Katona stoned out her face:lol2:
These little animals have brought me great joy in the 10 months ive kept them, so Im only happy to give something back.:2thumb:


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

Pinkytoes said:


> Pics of my A Avic can hardly be compared to ones of Kerry Katona stoned out her face:lol2:
> These little animals have brought me great joy in the 10 months ive kept them, so Im only happy to give something back.:2thumb:


hehe yeah exactly, i agree : victory:


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

george dobson said:


> You need to stop being so derogatory, if you cared about the hobby you would happily send him some pictures/ information if you have some, to create better knowledge about these amazing creatures.


Not sure about that if say a book contains misinformation in the form of pictures of hobby spiders labled with the wrong names ect that's not really a help to the hobby in the long run.

It's seems to me bald was trying to be helpful but just in a "tough love" way, spiders are a small hobby and it's very easy to burn bridges you may regret at a later date and I think this maybe what Chris has just done here :blush:


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## george dobson (May 20, 2009)

Oderus said:


> Not sure about that if say a book contains misinformation in the form of pictures of hobby spiders labled with the wrong names ect that's not really a help to the hobby in the long run.
> 
> It's seems to me bald was trying to be helpful but just in a "tough love" way, spiders are a small hobby and it's very easy to burn bridges you may regret at a later date and I think this maybe what Chris has just done here :blush:


i get what your saying, but it cant hurt to try, and i think baldpoodle was being a little too tough on chris.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> comparing how paparazzi sell to newspapers isnt the right comparison to use, paparazzi spend 1000s paying people to get in the way of celebrities lives to get pictures, it takes hours to get those pictures and they sell them to news papers because they wouldn't make any proffit any other way.


It was an example nothing more. ok maybe not the best example but at the time all I could think of. The point is they sell their photos the reasons behind it make no difference what so ever. 


> All chris is asking for is hobbyists to send pictures of their spiders to him so he can create a decent book for the greater good of the hobby, unlike the paparazzi photos, these only took me 10 minuites and noone was paying me to take them so i do not expect anything in return.


Yes and it these photos that will hep sell the book is it not? So in effect thses photos will be helping to make a profit however big or small. 
Lets try this another way.
I want some top nic pictures of hollywood stars so that I can make a book for the hollywood star spotting hobby. Can you send me free of charge these photos? I will give you credit but not any profit on what the book makes. 
Funny thing is, I never even asked for any money for photos lol. I'm just not stupid enough to think that everyone should think the same about their own photos.


> You need to stop being so derogatory, if you cared about the hobby you would happily send him some pictures/ information if you have some, to create better knowledge about these amazing creatures.


Whos being derogatory? And don't give me that if I cared crap. You know bugger all about me, but I'm dammed if I am going to give up stuff I do know or have to someone who just turns their nose up to any advise I had already given.


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## Pinkytoes (Jun 25, 2009)

Maybe even if he offers the book to those who contributed at a discounted rate?
Just a thought:blush:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Course he could do that if he wishes, and that would also be very nice of him, but it does not change the fact that some people will only give their photos over if they are paid for. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with this attitude and that these people should not be put down because of it.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

im sorry but baldpoodle is just being very nagative, whereas i clearly will need positive and helpful people, im sure he has a fountain knowledge on this subject, but if hes this difficult to even talk to then whats the point in building a major project with such a character.... he has certainly posted more negative imput than positive. he said that i will now be missing some species, but does he know of some that no one else in the world does?
really its just the picture coryright issue i think? coz thats what hes mostly moaning about......yeah if you got some shockingly amazing photo of a T attacking a humming bird or something then you would expect getting paid for its publication... im asking for people to pop upstairs and try their best.and you dont have to do it either. i cant force them! 

what if i said that every penny profit went towards protecting rainforest? coz to be honest thats probably would be where the vast majority would go.
http://xodarap.deviantart.com/gallery/#spiders
here are some spiders from the atlantic rainforest..... hope these pictures work!!anyway lee from TSS suggested acragnathous and nemesidae... tho my little brother may have put them wrong way round on his art website. these may not even be tarantulas... but this doesnt really have too much with this book.. other they are spiders from the area which im not really sure what they are


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Oh look, Baldpoodle is being a jerk again.

Anyway, I'm just asking, but what about the fact that many Ts can't be identified from photos? Seems like a nice, if gargantuan project, and I don't want to be negative but I honestly have to question the use... Plus there's a mahooosive number in the hobby, let alone altogether.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

naturechris said:


> xodarap's Gallery
> here are some spiders from the atlantic rainforest..... hope these pictures work!!anyway lee from TSS suggested acragnathous and nemesidae... tho my little brother may have put them wrong way round on his art website. these may not even be tarantulas... but this doesnt really have too much with this book.. other they are spiders from the area which im not really sure what they are
> image
> image


The "acragnathous?" looks like it could be a Nemesiidae but could be from few other mygale familys also (Barychelidae it looks to have small spinnererts on the picture?), the thing with the stripy abdomen maybe from a Diplurid genus such as _Linothele Trechona_ ect


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## Pinkytoes (Jun 25, 2009)

naturechris said:


> im sorry but baldpoodle is just being very nagative, whereas i clearly will need positive and helpful people, im sure he has a fountain knowledge on this subject, but if hes this difficult to even talk to then whats the point in building a major project with such a character.... he has certainly posted more negative imput than positive. he said that i will now be missing some species, but does he know of some that no one else in the world does?
> really its just the picture coryright issue i think? coz thats what hes mostly moaning about......yeah if you got some shockingly amazing photo of a T attacking a humming bird or something then you would expect getting paid for its publication... im asking for people to pop upstairs and try their best.and you dont have to do it either. i cant force them!
> 
> what if i said that every penny profit went towards protecting rainforest? coz to be honest thats probably would be where the vast majority would go.
> ...


With all due respect, you will encounter some negativity, its up to you to put that aside and if serious about this then will not be discouraged by it.
From what I can establish, Baldpoodle in his own way, was trying to offer you realistic advice its up to you in what context you take it.
As I said, myself and im sure a few others will offer you photos free gratis as I am more than happy to help you in your cause.
Good luck with it:notworthy:


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Oh look, Baldpoodle is being a jerk again.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just asking, but what about the fact that many Ts can't be identified from photos? Seems like a nice, if gargantuan project, and I don't want to be negative but I honestly have to question the use... Plus there's a mahooosive number in the hobby, let alone altogether.


Yes people are going to pick a factual book on the species in the hobby apart unless there is a good degree of providence behind the specimens pictured.

BP comes over a jerk but I think he's just saying what others won't most of the time :whistling2:


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

There's an old saying:



> Just because you're right, it doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.


Or maybe I just made that up, either way I'm pretty sure some folk on here could do well to heed it's advice.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Hedgewitch said:


> Oh look, Baldpoodle is being a jerk again.
> 
> .


A typical responce from someone whos oppinion amounts nothing but wants it to mean the all.



> im sorry but baldpoodle is just being very nagative, whereas i clearly will need positive and helpful people, im sure he has a fountain knowledge on this subject, but if hes this difficult to even talk to then whats the point in building a major project with such a character.... he has certainly posted more negative imput than positive


Hang on a minute Where have I been all negative?
Here I just wanted to know more information before I spend all my time and effort on helping you out.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-2.html#post5797670
Then here I offered you some what I consider good advise (which you just ignored completly)
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-2.html#post5797936
then here I brought the topic up again as I was genuinely interested in how it was panning out
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-3.html#post5903342
then from here
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-4.html#post5907860
onwards I have just defended some of the people who will only give photos for money, which I was not one of but do think these people are well within there rights to do so without being slaged off for it.

The you come out with crap like this
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-4.html#post5908304



> he said that i will now be missing some species, but does he know of some that no one else in the world does?


Let me put it to you like this you will never know now will you but I am very very sure that these have not been photographed before.



> really its just the picture coryright issue i think? coz thats what hes mostly moaning about


You may what to re read my posts as Im starting to think you may be a little dim.


> what if i said that every penny profit went towards protecting rainforest? coz to be honest thats probably would be where the vast majority would go.


This is all very nice and may perswade those who would normally charge for their photos to give them up for free.....on the other hand it may not but it would still be no excuse to slag them for it.

Ah well I tried to help but this is what you get so I'll just leave you to it and buy the book once its done.


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## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

I have this book already, tis called the tinternet PM me for a copy


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Many bridges may have been burned today let's have a moment of silence :grouphug: :yeahright:


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## Soulwax (Jan 6, 2009)

I've wanted someone to do a similar thing with scorps. A scorpion encyclopaedia.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Baldpoodle said:


> A typical responce from someone whos oppinion amounts nothing but wants it to mean the all.


Do you mean that I wish my opinion to mean something even though it doesn't? Being serious here, I'm having a dim moment and can't quite work out what that means.

Either way, I was merely commenting on how you're often... less than polite in dealing with people. Don't worry mate, it's quite common on the internet, people haven't got the facial cues, body language and tone of voice to get the whole message. Some people respond by wording things carefully to avoid confusion and trying not to make assumptions. And some respond by displaying symptoms much akin to mild autism, along with a superiority complex. You'll have the kind of person who's perfectly reasonable and normal in normal life, but when they log onto their computer... suddenly they think that because they know the answer they are allowed to talk down to other people, or start screaming abuse (overuse of CAPS LOCK and belittling people) at people for the mildest of disagreements. It's rather interesting really.
Other people get incredibly touchy and defensive, getting very angry at anyone who has the audacity to question or correct _them_. (I mean who the hell does she think she is? Politely pointing out that I'm using a junior synonym... that b:censor:h!)

So really: don't worry. It's just something that happens, I'm not inclined to approve of your attitude and manner when talking to people, however I understand that it's beyond your control.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

well said and very true - it's easy to become the big man when sat typing away in the darkness of your nans basement - but I for one don't have time for this malarky and always have the view ' treat people like you would like to be treated yourself' the simple ways and manners in life - the stuff your mum taught you.:2thumb:..... it's nice to be nice


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Paul c 1 said:


> In agreement George - there seems to be the odd *one* or two people who I can see *are quite obstructive at times and seem to enjoy getting on the high horse with little or no provocation*.......overall it's a friendly hobby and as I said in my earlier post I for one have absolutely no issues with sending a few pics to help out:2thumb:


Baldpoodle? Yes I think so.



Baldpoodle said:


> yes well thats you. And you can't expect everyone to be the same as you can you.


If you read the 1st post, you'll notice that Chris wasn't expecting anything. He simply asked for peoples help. He was quite clear on what he was asking and what he was offering in return.

your actually quite annoying and argumentative for no real reason, and it seems others think the same....we cant all be wrong?

Sorry Chris for posting this on your thread. I will bitch no more on this thread!

On a lighter note, I know Chris very well from working with him at the zoo. He's a top bloke and knows what he's talking about. I will be helping him out at the BTS, come and say hello to us if your there.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

The trouble with commenting on a subject like this is the old heads will use their experience to put their points across which the young heads will consider as negative and restricting their ideas. Unfortunately the scepticism is often well founded as many of the ideas never materialise. However, if the will is there it will overcome the sceptics and may actually be enforced by them.

You've certainly put a mammoth task in front of you and you'll have many hurdles to cross here. 

The accuracy of the ID will be called into question, from where will you get the ID? Considering that many people on forums query their own species and the idea that many have of their species is merely that of the previous owner, you're likely to come across lots of miss-ID (Stuart Longhorns lecture rings bells here). That in itself will lose you credibility. You can see recently within RFUK that Baldpoodle and others have lost credibility of Stanley Shultz for the simplest of reasons. You can also see from Stan's book how difficult he found obtaining all the images has been. But to illustrate my point some more, not even Lee gave give you an ID on the 2 Ts pix you have shown him, because many tarantula need more than an visual ID. How would you tell the difference between C. pentalore and D. fasciatum? between the various Avics? between Cyriopagopus and Lampropelma, the various Aphonopelma etc. These are all recent discussions within this forum and yet shown differences of opinion.

As for photos, merely acknowledging a photographer is not enough. You'd need to set up an legal agreement for the use of the images, signed by the owner. You'd have to make it obvious where the acceptable use was and you'd need to cover unforeseen circumstances. How would contributors feel if the photos were used elsewhere for financial gain beyond your control? Remember it may become the case that you sell the rights to the book. What would happen if the contributors were offered payment from another source, where would that leave your inclusions. You'd also have to consider the quality of the pictures, the internet uses 1/4 the quality of that for print.

You also mention providing information on the species, and you've raised the issue of misinformation. Where would you obtain the correct information and how would you use this? You can't just read a book and provide the same information in your own book. Books, journals, papers, reports etc are all covered by copyright.

How will you fund and distribute the book. The cost of printing isnt cheap, add to that advertising, distribution and storage and you have yourself a trip to the bank manager, who will require collateral and a business plan to recuperate the loan.

These are just a few of the hurdles facing you. Creating such a mammoth task will undoubtedly swamp you and its very likely you'll be another nice idea in a forum, but no more. Sorry, but that's the statistic of ideas in all areas of life, and it can kill the enthusiasm. What wins is when the enthusiasm is greater than that, the desire to succeed in the task acknowledges the negatives and finds ways to achieve the objective.

The idea seems in its early days and will undoubtedly receive priase and help as well as being well received. So, have a think about this:
Initially restrict yourself to one genus, possibly one of the more common within the hobby eg. Brachypelma. Consider collecting your information and contacting others that have studied this genus eg. Andrew Smith. Consider a visit to NHM and perhaps apply for a visit behind the scenes, collected specimens would make a great start to the book. I'd personally get in touch with the BTS committee and approach some of them about your ideas. I'd also seriously consider moving your idea to an online resource - its easier, cheaper, easily edited and accessible.

If you're still considering a book why not contact this guy who late last year released his book on baboon tarantula. Take note of the price of the book, and the timeframe which covers just South Africa:
Gildenhuys, P. 2009.
A Pictorial Guide to the Baboon Spiders of Southern Africa.
Cadiz Street Publishing, Durbanville.

Good luck

PS: I'll be at BTS, probably on the Invicta stand, but James knows me. Feel free to come and chat, I work in publishing/advertising/print so I can offer advice in that direction.


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Jamie, my name is Jamie...Peter!! lol


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

sorry Jamie, its late and I'm seriously knackered, my apologies.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

The real funny thing is, is all I did was offer my help to the guy, and say how the people who ask for money in return for their photos are perfectly within their rights to do so without the crapy remarks made towards and about them.


> your actually quite annoying and argumentative for no real reason, and it seems others think the same....we cant all be wrong?


lol :whistling2:


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm not sure how many times I have stated that the people who want to sell their images will have to look elsewhere! As sadly I can't afford to pay them. People can do as they wish, it's up to them yeah! Can we agree on that? People haven't asked for money yet anyway, probably because I've made the situation clear about 5 times now. 
Maybe you just stroke your own ego by shooting others ideas down ... I don't know. This is a project in very early stages so maybe it will evolve into something else. But I know what goals I want to achieve without others telling how hard it will be. My dad always told me to aim for the stars and if you fail you will have still travelled very far.... That's working for me fine atm.
Sorry for appearing "dim" to you. I can assure you I'm not. But I have a feeling less people care for your opinion. Anyway mate I'm not going to bother with your posts unless your being constructive


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> I'm not sure how many times I have stated that the people who want to sell their images will have to look elsewhere! As sadly I can't afford to pay them. People can do as they wish, it's up to them yeah! Can we agree on that?


At last I think he gets what I mean a little.


> People haven't asked for money yet anyway, probably because I've made the situation clear about 5 times now.


Yes I think everyone has relized this in post 3! But the reason the topic got heated was because of the slaging (not by you) that was made in a responce to this
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-2.html#post5798396


> Maybe you just stroke your own ego by shooting others ideas down


Where have I done this for crying out loud? 


> This is a project in very early stages so maybe it will evolve into something else. But I know what goals I want to achieve without others telling how hard it will be.


seriously I give up. Yes I said it would be hard but I also gave you some bloody advise to hopefully make it a little easier for you to find the information you seek. And what have you done with my advise? yep nothing! Not even a thanks but no thanks.


> Sorry for appearing "dim" to you. I can assure you I'm not.


no need to say sorry for short comings. I have many that I will not say sorry for.


> But I have a feeling less people care for your opinion.


Thats fine.


> Anyway mate I'm not going to bother with your posts unless your being constructive


what like the post where I offer you a bit of advise as where to find more help?
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...big-project-all-could-help-2.html#post5797936
you never bothered with that either.
Like I said good luck with your book I will buy it once it is done.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

Yes pleease give up on this go entertain yourself on a different thread. Someone as mighty and intelligent as you can probably sneeze out world peace and shit out the answer of life. This whole thread is full of your glorious verbal gonads. Seriously anything you have to add from now on, just don't bother because I just don't deserve your imput. Just try and find something better to do from now on....


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

well that just speaks volumes. thanks for that.


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

And you already have! I'm not having someone who doesn't even know me tell me I'm dim! Even if you have a great amount of infomation, it's simply not worth the hassle! Good day to you sir!!!!!


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> well that just speaks volumes. thanks for that.





naturechris said:


> And you already have! I'm not having someone who doesn't even know me tell me I'm dim! Even if you have a great amount of infomation, it's simply not worth the hassle! Good day to you sir!!!!!


And at long last the war of the picture book thread was at an end..
eace::grouphug:


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## naturechris (Apr 23, 2009)

thanks poxicator, your views on this have been very helpful, i look forward to meeting you at the bts as im sure your line of work can be very beneficial to the project in many different levels.. we will have to talk about it soon.
oderus... the golden colored spider did infact have small spinneretts, so if that helps you narrow it down? the golden colored one was about 8cm across and the black one easily 15cm.. thanks for your imput too.


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