# *********** online, don't bother.



## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

I have ordered a 45x45x60 terrarium from ***********. They claimed to have had 3 left in stock and their website still advertises as 2 left in stock. I have been chasing them up via email to find out where my terrarium is as they claimed 4-5 days delivery. Finally got an answer to one email twith this:

Hi Ryan​ 
Our supplier is currently out of stock of the size terrarium you have ordered, we are hoping they will have more stock by the end of next week.​ 
Regards

******​ 
As I got my first reply I immediately responded to their response with a request for a full refund as two weeks more on a maybe for an item they claimed to have in stock with a 4-5 working days delivery period is not acceptable. They have stopped responding again. I have sent them a copy/paste of my legal rights from CAB website and asked for this matter to be resolved in a polite manner but they are still not responding. I will report back to this thread with updates as they happen. Here is a link to the item they still claim to have in stock.​


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## UpLink (Dec 14, 2011)

Have they got a phone number?


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

I have tried their phone number 666666666666 but there was nobody available to take the call. I left a message but no call was returned. I will try again tomorrow as it is seeming a little more serious now. I have been sending emails as I have proof of attempted contact. It is to close to christmas to be arguing about getting my money back. I had a gut feeling when I had to use sage pay as they never accepted paypal. I will contact the bank tomorrow to see if they can help.


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## UpLink (Dec 14, 2011)

Ahhh right hope you get it sorted soon mate


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

Me too . :censor:


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

Seems quite expensive anyway, SPS do them for £61.99, not sure if they're doing delivery on glass vivs yet though?


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

Graham said:


> Seems quite expensive anyway, SPS do them for £61.99, not sure if they're doing delivery on glass vivs yet though?


First place I looked but they were store collection only and as they charge (fairly) for delivery it probably would have worked out at around the same price. I checked SPS first as I have good service and prices from them on more than one occasion. 

Finally getting somewhere on the refund, I received this email this morning:-

​
Detailed Invoice 
Your order has been updated to the following status:
*New status:* Cancelled 

_The comments for your order are: _OUT OF STOCK, CANCELLED ORDER. PASSED OVER TO ACCOUNTS TO ISSUE THE REFUND

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.
Best Regards,
**************


I also got a reply when I phoned and asked when I can expect to receive my refund and I was told it has been passed to their accounts department and they have no way of knowing when they will process it. So still not the most reassuring business practice where sales and accounts have no means of contact?? Getting somewhere though I think. I wouldn't use this company again as they have not exactly filled me with confidence. They haven't refunded me yet either, just agreed they will but don't know when. :whistling2:


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

9 Days has now passed since ***** pet stores cancelled my order and agreed to refund the money. I think it's time to contact trading standards. :whistling2:

The shops customer support phone number just tell me they have passed the refund request onto accounts and they are no longer anyway involved.


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## ryan w (Jul 10, 2011)

hope you get your money back soon, and for future reference seapets do them for 67 with free delivery and there customer service is excellent you can also get the congo package with extra bits and a fancy background for a few pounds more. good luck


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

ryan w said:


> hope you get your money back soon, and for future reference seapets do them for 67 with free delivery and there customer service is excellent you can also get the congo package with extra bits and a fancy background for a few pounds more. good luck


 
Thanks for your reply, I will check their website out now.
I have sent them a final chance email before contacting trading standards tomorrow with a complaint.


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

Took your Advice ryan w and ordered the congo kit from seapets and paid with paypal which is reassuring. Marvellous deal there was a £4 delivery surcharge to go with the free delivery (don't know exactly what that means) but still a good deal, thank you for the heads up in the right direction. :2thumb:

Exo Terra Congo Terrarium 45x45x60cm


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I know this is frustrating but can I ask users not to name and shame this business as they are not here to defend themselves, and RFUK could be liable for legal action if these comments were not removed.

Cheers,

-G


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> I know this is frustrating but can I ask users not to name and shame this business as they are not here to defend themselves, and RFUK could be liable for legal action if these comments were not removed.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -G


Yet in this case they are in the wrong! how can they deffend claiming to have stock on the site when they havent got it and not issuing refunds in time? to much sweeping stuff under the carpet in the reptile world and way to much parnoia about legal this and that!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> Yet in this case they are in the wrong! how can they deffend claiming to have stock on the site when they havent got it and not issuing refunds in time? to much sweeping stuff under the carpet in the reptile world and way to much parnoia about legal this and that!


If RFUK got landed with legal issues you'd be willing to pay the legal fees?


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## Microclimate (Oct 2, 2012)

The problem with many of these online stores especially the ones that don't have shops is that they are purely drop shippers I.e they order it off their supplier to be sent straight to you when you order it from them this way they have almost no overheads and that's why they offer stupid prices on the Internet and just make a pound or 2 on a product as they don't have to pay for it until they already have your money.

Best advice anyone can have is check out who you are buying from first. See if they have a shop address and put it into google street view and see if its actually someone's house. There are quite a few of these people on the Internet even some manufacturers that have cropped up are operating from their house and not even paying business rates etc. it makes them very easy to disappear with people's money or not being able to honour a warranty that is advertised


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

I have no intentions to make trouble for RFUK but I do think rogue traders with arrogant attitudes should be named and shamed. 
No mention of the company name but they do have a business address located at a trade area. Here is the Email I have just been advised by Consumer Direct to send after receiving an email today telling me they can legally keep my money for another month before refunding. 

I have just phoned C.A.B. Consumer helpline and they said you are in breech of contract by accepting an order on an item you wrongly advertised as in stock and delivered within 3-5 working days. You never attempted to contact me to tell me any different and when I contacted you, you told me you would have some in next month. I then had to buy from another store and you cancelled my order and agreed to the refund. You then told me you are legally allowed to keep my money for another month before issueing a refund on a contract you are in breech of. 
Consumer Direct advised me this is not the case and advised me to offer you a deadline to refund the full amount of £69.95 by Monday 22/10/2012 and if the refund is not returned on that date then I am to contact Consumer Direct again and trading standards will then be involved about your unethical practices.
I wish to receive the full overdue refund by Monday 22/10/12 as advised by Consumer Direct. 

kind regards,
Ryan Powell.


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

I do think it's a bit of a cop out by RFUK not to allow members to speak about rogue traders, I wonder if there is any connection between administration and this company who are legally unethical and in breech of the law according to C.A.B. Consumer Direct. 

There is a shop review section to this forum, Why?
If us members are not allowed to say the truth about bad companies only good companies then the review section is tainted information and a waste of time. This thread has been fair and correct all the way. We must all leave each other to get ripped off in the future as it's unethical to pre-warn our fellow members of such traders. 

My opinion of RFUK has now been Altered by the Administrations ethics.


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

dragons and turtles said:


> Took your Advice ryan w and ordered the congo kit from seapets and paid with paypal which is reassuring. Marvellous deal there was a £4 delivery surcharge to go with the free delivery (don't know exactly what that means) but still a good deal, thank you for the heads up in the right direction. :2thumb:
> 
> Exo Terra Congo Terrarium 45x45x60cm


Ironically I had the same problem you are having with the original place with seapets it took me weeks of "we will have it in stock tomorrow" or not even answering the phone before i had to raise a paypal dispute to get my money back from seapets.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> I wonder if there is any connection between administration and this company


Seriously? You honestly think the people who run this forum might be involved and are trying to cover it up!

Naming and shaming is all very well, but if the company were to see what you wrote, what the owners of RFUK _allowed _you to write, then they could take the site owners to court and sue them. I've seen it happen to a very good car owners forum that I used to belong to, a garage took them to court over comments that a member had made, the forum was forced to close.

It would only be your word against theirs, and of course you wouldn't be the one to suffer if the judgement went against the forum would you?


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

bbav said:


> Ironically I had the same problem you are having with the original place with seapets it took me weeks of "we will have it in stock tomorrow" or not even answering the phone before i had to raise a paypal dispute to get my money back from seapets.


 
I have received confirmation from seapets that the one I ordered last night was despatched today, I would've been gutted if I went through this again. lol. 

We have been advised by C.A.B. to contact the bank about the company that's RFUK protected as we paid via sage pay security on our debit card. C.A.B. has taken their address and further details and have given me a direct contact and reference number. Let's hope they play ball.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

dragons and turtles said:


> I do think it's a bit of a cop out by RFUK not to allow members to speak about rogue traders, I wonder if there is any connection between administration and this company who are legally unethical and in breech of the law according to C.A.B. Consumer Direct.
> 
> There is a shop review section to this forum, Why?
> If us members are not allowed to say the truth about bad companies only good companies then the review section is tainted information and a waste of time. This thread has been fair and correct all the way. We must all leave each other to get ripped off in the future as it's unethical to pre-warn our fellow members of such traders.
> ...





RFUK RULES said:


> We welcome you to talk about your experiences when visiting a reptile shop, however we ask that you be constructive and only post about fact not personal opinions or perceptions.
> 
> *We dont allow threads that name and shame shops or other reptile related business', often people's personal opinions can be unfounded and very damaging to the business when they are posted on such an active site. *
> 
> ...


From the rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up here. I suggest you read them. We've been doing this for long enough to have seen occassions where people have been truthful as well as downright lying through their teeth. We've had people create accounts just to bad mouth a rival business; other times to attack members of staff for reasons nothing to do with the forum.
These rules aren't here just for us to flex our muscles and act like internet badasses. They are here for your benefit based on our experience. 



dragons and turtles said:


> We have been advised by C.A.B. to contact the bank about the company that's RFUK protected as we paid via sage pay security on our debit card. C.A.B. has taken their address and further details and have given me a direct contact and reference number. Let's hope they play ball.


We haven't protected anyone, I simply edited the name out of the post according to the established rules. If you want to bad mouth the company then do it elsewhere, someplace where they can take YOU to court over it and not us.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> I know this is frustrating but can I ask users not to name and shame this business as they are not here to defend themselves, and RFUK could be liable for legal action if these comments were not removed.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -G


You may want to edit post three in this thread. A google search of the phone number details the suppplier. 

I've seen derogatory comments written about a reptile shop in xxxxxxx town. Googling reptile shops in said town, brought up just the one. Perhaps you need to tighten the rules a little more as some of these 'clues' are every bit as good as the actual company name.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> Perhaps you need to tighten the rules a little


Possibly, but if some members are selfish enough to jeapordise the future of the forum by ignoring the existing rules, the rules that they agreed to abide by when they joined, then what makes you think they would pay any more attention to tighter rules?


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Graham said:


> Possibly, but if some members are selfish enough to jeapordise the future of the forum by ignoring the existing rules, the rules that they agreed to abide by when they joined, then what makes you think they would pay any more attention to tighter rules?


I think you know as well as I that rules will always be broken, either deliberately or by accident. 

But in answer to your question, experience watching how this works elsewhere, on another forum. You can't post any names, or other info that makes it easy to identify a trader etc. It works well as people see similar examples to this thread and thus don't post clues as to a traders identity etc. I'll PM you the forum name if you like and you can see for yourself.


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

Being Honest, I never read the rules just agreed to them as probably a lot of people did. I never deliberately broke any rules, sorry.

Does bring me back to the question though, "why is there a shop review section to this forum if you are only allowed to say good things about them"? 
That section is a waste of time if people are not allowed to speak the truth about their dealings with a company. :whistling2:

Administration: you are welcome to close or delete this thread, I won't be offended. :Na_Na_Na_Na: :lol2:


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> If RFUK got landed with legal issues you'd be willing to pay the legal fees?


IF theres the key word, it aint going to happen when the facts speak for themselves is it!!! just a short sweet cop out line there grb, the other forum has allowed naming and shaming and we dont see him in court every five minutes or crying that if, when or how things may or may not happen! they just ask for simple factual reports!

But lets face it this forum has hid the dirt on certain people in the past even with proof and there own statments! or run scared of "big" names when theres clearly somthing wrong and it would be to the benefit of the members to be warned!

Never know may help improve the over all reputation of the site!


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

blood and guts said:


> IF theres the key word, it aint going to happen when the facts speak for themselves is it!!! just a short sweet cop out line there grb, the other forum has allowed naming and shaming and we dont see him in court every five minutes or crying that if, when or how things may or may not happen! they just ask for simple factual reports!
> 
> But lets face it this forum has hid the dirt on certain people in the past even with proof and there own statments! or run scared of "big" names when theres clearly somthing wrong and it would be to the benefit of the members to be warned!
> 
> Never know may help improve the over all reputation of the site!


Agree with you all the way fella. :2thumb: 
even headed emails from the rogue trader has been removed from the thread, how can their own emails that they sent to me be liable?? They have openly argued out in emails with bogus excuses not to refund my money. I have never paid attention to the reputation this forum has but it is showing true on the attitude towards this thread, only the selected few are entitled to an opinion.

I posted truth and facts to warn members about a rogue trader and I've been blasted for it. Members are not important, the forum is.


All the facts have been posted on other forums with no complaints or tail between the legs attitude. Most people on forums join to learn truth , not have it smoke screened.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> IF theres the key word, it aint going to happen


As I mentioned earlier I know of one forum where this did happen and it was closed down, it can and has happened.

Of course there will be instances where companies are in the wrong, and there may even be evidence for it that would stand up in court, by why should unpaid moderators be expected to spend their own time investigating every post like this, trying to decide whether or not the claims being made can be substantiated?

As it stands the forum has rules, by joining the forum you agree to abide by those rules, if you choose not to read them and unwittingly break them that's not really an excuse.

If you think the forum rules need changing there is a section where you can make suggestions Forum Help, Suggestions & News - Reptile Forums


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> Members are not important, the forum is.


The forum _is _it's members, without one the other cannot exist, therefore they are equally important.


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

GRB said:


> From the rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up here. I suggest you read them. We've been doing this for long enough to have seen occassions where people have been truthful as well as downright lying through their teeth. We've had people create accounts just to bad mouth a rival business; other times to attack members of staff for reasons nothing to do with the forum.
> These rules aren't here just for us to flex our muscles and act like internet badasses. They are here for your benefit based on our experience.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well as it stands they are breaking the law not me, I have had this confirmed through legal advice. To suggest I could be a rival company is silly. No other Forum I'm a member of is worried about truth and fact.

Still can't understand why you have a shop review section if we are not allowed to say anything bad about a shop? Can you answer this please? Should be quite interesting to here why you got this section. :whistling2:


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

Graham said:


> The forum _is _it's members, without one the other cannot exist, therefore they are equally important.


Members :whip: are just numbers to give to potential sponsors and advertisers, that's what I'm getting at.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

dragons and turtles said:


> Being Honest, I never read the rules just agreed to them as probably a lot of people did. I never deliberately broke any rules, sorry.















blood and guts said:


> IF theres the key word, it aint going to happen when the facts speak for themselves is it!!! just a short sweet cop out line there grb, the other forum has allowed naming and shaming and we dont see him in court every five minutes or crying that if, when or how things may or may not happen! they just ask for simple factual reports!
> 
> But lets face it this forum has hid the dirt on certain people in the past even with proof and there own statments! or run scared of "big" names when theres clearly somthing wrong and it would be to the benefit of the members to be warned!
> 
> Never know may help improve the over all reputation of the site!


It's not a cop out. I'm not going to take any flak legally for the comments of some random I've never met. If you want that to change, start sending me a wage and provide legal fees. 

As for the other stuff you mention, meh? I've stood up to various members who thought they were above the rules here and they left. Crap that goes on off forum isn't my concern. 




dragons and turtles said:


> Agree with you all the way fella. :2thumb:
> 
> even headed emails from the rogue trader has been removed from the thread, how can their own emails that they sent to me be liable?? They have openly argued out in emails with bogus excuses not to refund my money. I have never paid attention to the reputation this forum has but it is showing true on the attitude towards this thread, only the selected few are entitled to an opinion.


Where did you get that crap from? "only the selected few"? NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO NAME AND SHAME BUSINESSES ON RFUK.




> All the facts have been posted on other forums with no complaints or tail between the legs attitude. Most people on forums join to learn truth , not have it smoke screened.


As I said before, if you want to post it do it somewhere else and then they or you can deal with any fall out. 



dragons and turtles said:


> Well as it stands they are breaking the law not me, I have had this confirmed through legal advice.
> 
> Yes, because the way the law works is that if someone breaks the law a third party can break another law and that is OK is it?
> 
> Still can't understand why you have a shop review section if we are not allowed to say anything bad about a shop? Can you answer this please? Should be quite interesting to here why you got this section. :whistling2:



I never started the forum, I merely try to keep it under control from people who don't read the rules before posting and expect us to just change them because they think, after joining up, that they are stupid. 

The review section is for positive reviews. If a shop doesn't have positives then you can interpret that as you like. 

Many of those shops have accounts here and can at least respond to queries in person - this is not happening at the moment either.


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## dragons and turtles (Jun 30, 2012)

:blah::blah::blah: :zzz: :zzz:

if you got nothing nice to say then keep the truth to yourself, got it. 

You said crap that goes on off this forum doesn't interest you. Everything that is posted on this forum is about what goes on off it. No point posting about the crap that's already on here. 
Like I said, it's all about money for you and nothing to do with it being a good forum. You have mentioned money (directed at yourself) more times in this thread than I have done in a month of posts anywhere. 



I will have no replies posted to this thread.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

dragons and turtles said:


> I will have no replies posted to this thread.


Or I'll tell my mom on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

dragons and turtles said:


> :blah::blah::blah: :zzz: :zzz:
> 
> if you got nothing nice to say then keep the truth to yourself, got it.
> 
> ...


No, I said it doesn't _concern _us. We're not internet police, we just uphold the rules here.

I don't get paid for doing this. None of the moderators do. I don't own shares in the forum, nor do I get advertising revenue. I do this because I usually like doing it and I enjoy helping people with hobby questions. It's people like you that make it less than enjoyable. 

It's a simple rule, and whether or not you like it, it is the rule on this forum. If you don't like it leave - or keep doing as you are doing and I'll make you leave. Either way, this thread is done.


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