# How do you prove something to be het?



## Wigsyboy (Oct 31, 2010)

As the title says, how do you prove something to be het?
Thanks, 
Will


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Prove it out?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

You breed it and produce a visual offspring, thus "proving" that the animal carries the het.

Ie.
You breed an albino with a het albino, and you produce some albino offspring, your het albino is now proven.

If you do not get visual offspring, this does not mean your animal is not het, it could just mean that you got bad luck and you'll need to try again especially breeding two hets together where the odds of a visual are lower, or breeding animals that have only small clutches of eggs meaning you don't get as many chances to prove it out.


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## Wigsyboy (Oct 31, 2010)

So how can people sell 2010 or non-breeding age animals and sell them as being het?


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

By knowing what the parent's were. 

I think I'm right in thinking - if you breed 2 albinos and get normal looking babies those babies will be het for albinism- they'll carry the albino gene but it wont be dominant. I think.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Based on the parentage, if an animal has an albino parent, it is going to be 100% het and that's what breeders will sell it at.

It's not usually considered "proven" until breeding age and the trait has been proven out - but if you trust the seller and have seen the parents and are confident in their reputation, then you can usually feel confident about buying a 100% het.

It's obviously one of the areas where there is room for unethical people/scammers to try and inflate the price of "normal" snakes - but any breeder with a good reputation will be able to show evidence, ie. the parents, ultimately though, buying hets is very much a trust based transaction.


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## Wigsyboy (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks for setting me right.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

TheMetaphysicalNinja said:


> By knowing what the parent's were.
> 
> I think I'm right in thinking - if you breed 2 albinos and get normal looking babies those babies will be het for albinism- they'll carry the albino gene but it wont be dominant. I think.


Everything about this is wrong! Lol. Albino to albino is recessive to recessive and produces visual albinos. Should any normls appear they will have albino genes from both parents and thus be 100% het for albino. Albinos are a dominant gene but a recessive gene. An albino to normal will produce all offspring being 100% het albinos all normal looking. 100% het to 100% makes one in four albino and out of the other 3 normals 2'of them carrying the albino gene. As you can't tell which carry the gene they will be classed as 66% het albinos. And 100% het albino to a normal will produce all normals of which half carry the albino gene thus 50% het albinos. A one in two chance of having picked a gene carrier. Most morphs/normals are generally aren't more expensive unless 100% het anymore.


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Afraid your all wrong. You go on the laptop and print off some paperwork, add a couple of photo's from the picture section and the jobs a good'un.
Yours Sincerely 
Grayson G.


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

Stu.G said:


> Afraid your all wrong. You go on the laptop and print off some paperwork, add a couple of photo's from the picture section and the jobs a good'un.
> Yours Sincerely
> Grayson G.


 you have more than one username? - shocking!


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

animalstorey said:


> Everything about this is wrong! Lol.
> *he's not the only one!:whistling2:*
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, had to make it clear : victory: :2thumb:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

animalstorey said:


> Everything about this is wrong! Lol. Albino to albino is recessive to recessive and produces visual albinos. Should any normls appear they will have albino genes from both parents and thus be 100% het for albino. Albinos are a dominant gene but a recessive gene. (snip)


"Albinos are a dominant gene but a recessive gene." This makes absolutely no sense to me. What definitions are you using for "dominant gene" and "recessive gene"?

By the way, when a snake with two copies of a recessive gene is mated to a snake with two copies of the same recessive gene, all of the babies have two copies of that recessive gene. In other words, none of the babies look normal.

Edit: Oops. I thought there was only one page of posts and missed bothrops'. So this is pretty much a repeat of his excellent post.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Wigsyboy said:


> As the title says, how do you prove something to be het?
> Thanks,
> Will


As others have said, by either pedigree or breeding test. Here are the breeding tests.

A snake is heterozygous if the two genes in a given gene pair are not the same. This could be a normal gene and a dominant mutant gene, a normal gene and a codominant mutant gene, a normal gene and a recessive mutant gene, or two different mutant genes.

If a mutant gene is recessive to the appropriate normal gene, then mate the possible het to a snake with either one or two copies of the mutant gene in its gene pair. If any babies have two copies of the mutant gene, then the possible het is a proven het.

It is impossible to be 100% certain that the possible het is not a het. But if you mate a possible het to a snake with two copies of the mutant gene, seven normal looking babies is enough to make you 99% sure that the possible het is not a het. When mating a possible het to a known het, then you need at least 17 normal looking babies to be 99% sure that the possible het is not a het.

If a mutant gene is codominant to the appropriate normal gene, then you can tell the hets by looking at them. 

if a mutant gene is dominant to the normal gene, then mate the possible het to a normal snake. If you get at least seven babies and none looks normal, then you are 99% sure that the possible het is not a het.

If the possible het is supposed to have two different mutant genes, then mate it to a snake with two copies of the more recessive mutant gene. If you get at least seven babies and none looks like it has two copies of the more recessive mutant, then you are 99% sure that the possible het is not a het.

Hope that helps.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

paulh said:


> "Albinos are a dominant gene but a recessive gene." This makes absolutely no sense to me. What definitions are you using for "dominant gene" and "recessive gene"?
> 
> By the way, when a snake with two copies of a recessive gene is mated to a snake with two copies of the same recessive gene, all of the babies have two copies of that recessive gene. In other words, none of the babies look normal.
> 
> Edit: Oops. I thought there was only one page of posts and missed bothrops'. *So this is pretty much a repeat of his excellent post*.


 
Aww...shucks:blush:

:2thumb:


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

Predicted text on phone messes up. Should be abinos are not a dominant gene. And yes albino to albino is all albinos but may cause problems. 
I was tired and dont think brain was working and hate using a phone to post! Lol. Sorry should have reread what I had written. Stuff and I keep the bloody things...lol!


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## Wigsyboy (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks very much for everyone's input. I understand now!


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