# Hi from a noobie :)



## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Hiya,

Newbie here - Just setting up to house my first reptiles.

I am picking up a pair of Lygodactylus Williamsi tomorrow 

Been setting up today in a Exo Terra Small/Wide ( 18x18x18 ).

Just missing a hood which I am getting tomorrow too (shop was out of stock when I got the rest yesterday) so don't panic at the photo! 

Really looking forward to the fun this pair will provide. One question - I read somewhere that a ratio of 1m:2f is better - will the pair be OK? I had a job to get the female as the shop only wanted to sell the males, but twisted his arm into selling me a pair. 

Any tips greatly appreciated 

The guy in the shop suggested siliconing in a bit of plastic pipe to the bottom to make draining easier, however I came up with something a bit stealthier (which I am sure has been done before); using some aquarium air pump pipe down the back of the background, into the bottom then out the back at the top - quick suck on the end and away we go!

This is my setup so far:


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi there,

In my opinion a trio is not always the best ratio. Either one male to more than two females or (and my personal preference) is a pair. Equally, these are very active and will use every mm of space provided. As such the 18x18x18 is not big enough for a trio really anyway. Stick with the pair and see how you do.

Cheers,

Colin
.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Great, thanks for the advice, will go with the pair then


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

No problem. And good luck with them, they are a tremendous species!


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

They are awesome - I was looking into an African Fat Tail before seeing these - Had never seen them before (and instantly knew when I saw them that they would be expensive!) and instantly thought they would be amazing to keep. 

Downside is not being able to really handle them, but I can see they will be so much fun to watch.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah handling is not advised. The only time I ever handle mine is when one jumps on my hand.

Be warned... they are very, very fast and the males are quite often more skittish than the females.


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

I wish you every luck,

I will point out however that you will need a bigger viv. This is a very territorial species and the males are ore than willing to defend their territory.

They are also critically endangered in the wild! as such there is a studbook and WC specimens should be avoided at all costs to stop the traders demanding more from what is a species that is likely to suffer local extinctions. 

They are very active, should not be handled and require a very vaired diet. 

Stable humidity levels are required with a stat controlled heat source. I would also look to provide a UVI of around 3-4 as part of the light and shade method. The females can decline very quickly, especially as they seem to constantly lay eggs. 

I visited a 6x2x2 bio active system last week. Ideally I would like to see 3' high but the length helps I guess. The single pair rear babies on their own in this mature system without artificial incubation and the babies do well.

If you decide to keep this species I wish you every luck, If you are not sure of their status as CB I would suggest looking at the yellow headed gecko which is readily available, stunning! and not currently endangered,

Good luck!

John


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Well "Dave" and "Gerty" have settled in... I am in panic mode about the night time heating now (first night jitters I guess).

Just turned out the lights for the night and the timer on the thermostat has gone into night mode. This is how it's all setup - would be interested in any feedback for tweaks to times / temps.

60w Komodo Ceramic heater which is placed onto the metal mesh in the back left corner (this is where the basking spot is). Running on a Lucky Reptile Thermo Control Pro II. The probe is in the bottom left corner.

06:00-21:00 set to 28c 
21:00-22:30 set to 24c
22:30-06:00 set to 22c

Lighting is a 26w Exo Terra UVB200 and a 25W natural light bulb. I had programmed this on the Control Pro to be 09:00-21:00 however I can not seem to get the second socket on the unit to activate despite seemingly setting the time control correctly (and the heater is functioning fine), so I am just doing the lighting manually for now until I get an answer from them about if its something I have done on settings or if it's faulty.

The biggest thing that gives me the jitters is how the whole thing retains its heat when the heat source is on top, given that heat rises. Obviously I know it will be all fine, but the scientist in me just says that heat doesn't go down 

I'm getting a stick on thermometer tomorrow for the inside front right just to satisfy myself and also got a humidity monitor coming tomorrow too


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Couple of quick questions.

How long are the lights on for a day? 

Is the ceramic heater touching the mesh?

Do you have a UV bulb, spot bulb, and ceramic heater on all at the same time?


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

They were on today for 7hrs (from when I got them home from the shop) - The shop recommended 12hrs per day.

The heater is not touching the mesh - It is in a heat resistant shield so the heater itself is a few cm off the surface of the mesh. It has a stand to move it further away too if the temp in the corner gets too hot.

All three are on at the same time, yes, but the heater is of course on the thermostat so only on if its dropping below the temps I have set as per above.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Ok cool. You had me worried when you said it was placed onto the metal mesh! That thing can get damn hot and the geckos can happily walk over the ceiling! I suggest that all in all you may find it getting too hot. There needs to be a decent gradient so they can cool down when they want (i.e. The bottom cooler than the top).

I would advise against the stick on thermometers as they really only give you a good indication of the temperature of the surface they are attached too and not the temperatures inside where it matters.

It's more expensive but a digital probe / IR gun is much better. 

12 hours on the lights is cool. These chaps come from pretty close to the equator so 12 hours light is fairly natural.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Heh yeah Gerty has taken a liking to the ceiling.

The Control Pro has a digital temp display but obviously that is only giving the reading for that one section - I might setup a standalone digital one then for the opposite corner to give me an idea of whats going on in each different part, whilst I get used to how it all changes with the day/night cycles etc.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Could be a good plan. 

I have found mine to be hardy to the "cold" but not like it when things get too hot. 

If you say the probe is in the bottom left corner, how far from the substrate? I'd aim to have it a bit cooler than 28 down there if it's close to the substrate. That means that the whole viv is heating up to 28 minimum. 23-24 down low climbing up to 27-28 higher up with a basking area a little warmer works well for me. 

John may have some better advice as he's kept them longer than I have. 

It can be tricky to get it right to begin with.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Few inches off the substrate. I did have it higher up to start with, then panicked about it not warming up enough everywhere else so moved it down. I guess having the second probe will really help with working it all out.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Oh and of course I couldn't resist..


Gerty:









Dave:


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

I'd move it up a bit. It'll warm up enough until you get the temps right. Better than than cooking them.

In Tanzania the temperature can drop to about 15 in kimboza in the July nights. 

Setup looks good from the close ups there.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Done - About 1/3rd way down now. 

Thanks a lot for the advice, really appreciate it. Found it hard to get any good setup guides anywhere online and the shop didn't really give me any in-depth help.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Where did you get them from? Any idea of their ages?

No probs on the help. My advice may not be what some of the more experienced keepers will say, but it has worked so far for me over the year and a half. I've got babies coming on at the moment.

There are a few guys on here that have had them for years. So hopefully they can provide more accurate guidance,


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

They came from a place called Pet Mania in Stockton-On-Tees.

Almost didn't have them because they only wanted to sell males. I asked twice and was told no, then as I was leaving the shop I asked again but putting a bit more pressure on and eventually he buckled and said I could have a pair. They are breeding them in there and he wanted to retain his females for breeding stock. 

Not totally sure on age - they weren't the smallest in there but they also had larger. I would be guessing at saying they are under a year old based on conversation we had. Was quite funny because I was in another shop today who said about them having them in and another customer saying tray wouldn't sell them any - suprised when I said I had convinced them to sell me a pair


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Well at least they sold a pair. Females can be hard to come by. 

I'd advise getting ground cuttlebone (sepia) and putting some in a plastic bottle lid or similar and putting in a secure accessible location (I blu-tac mine to the glass or put it in a jelly pot holder). The female will use it when she needs to supplement her diet when it comes to getting enough calcium for egg production and laying.

If she doesn't have enough calcium in her diet then in some cases it can cause bone deformation and ultimately death. 

I dare say, if they haven't already, the male will soon be hitting on her. ;-)


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

He has hardly left her alone  lots of face licking occurring earlier. She eventually got fed up and went off to hide from him. 

I have some calcium supplement powder already but will look into that one too


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Here is a link to the stuff I use.

Lucky Reptile Bio Calcium Sepia Powder 50g BCS-31 | Calcium Suppliments | Online Reptile Shop

Cheers,

Colin
.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Um - perhaps it's just the colouration on my pc but Gertie is looking like an immature / subordinate male to me.

If Gertie is female then you are going to need several smaller set-ups for the babies. Mum and Dad have a tendency to eat them otherwise.

Good luck with them.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

jools said:


> Um - perhaps it's just the colouration on my pc but Gertie is looking like an immature / subordinate male to me.
> 
> If Gertie is female then you are going to need several smaller set-ups for the babies. Mum and Dad have a tendency to eat them otherwise.
> 
> Good luck with them.


I will try and get some extra photos tomorrow and put them on. Certainly don't want two males! There has been some licking going on between them - would this also possibly be aggressive if it were two males?


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

This won't put your mind at ease.... but...

In the past I had two males (one was meant to be a female and was wrongly sexed) the male did the usual head bobbing and routine dancing around "her" and the face licking too. After a while I noticed this had turned into chasing and the "female" running and hiding lots.

Spoke to the breeder and sent a pic of the underside and he realised he had sexed it wrong.

However, on the colouration of the gecko you have in the picture, One of my current females looks similar. She has very blue arms and flashes down her sides. The flashes carry on someway up her body from what I am used to, equally her throat is pretty blue. Her generally body colour ranges from this bright green you see here to a real bronze colour (depends which way you view her). Also happen to know she is a female as she has laid 7 eggs so far this year.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

OK managed a close up - Not been able to get one of the underside yet


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok - well it is my opinion that Gertie could POSSIBLY be an immature male. I base this on the fact that you think they are under a year old (males usually start to show their blue colours at about 6-9 months - much later if they are kept with other males) and the fact that "she" was smaller than some of them indicates that this is possibly a young juvenile. "She" has the same appearance that all my juvenile males have had at this sort of age.

So what to do? I think it would be a very good idea to get another set-up very soon. If Gertie is a female then you will need it (and several others) for any babies. If Gertie is a male then you will need to separate them anyway. Personally I would separate them for 6 months anyway.

Sorry - probably not what you want to hear. It might be worth posting pics on the Lizard section of the forum to get some more opinions - not many peeps look on here.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Jools does have an excellent point that I glossed past. You should separate them to see if Gertie turns out to be a female.

Also if they are under a year then I wouldn't breed them anyway. I wouldn't breed them until you are sure they are a year at least. It can be very detrimental to the female's health.

Also, Jools, I wasn't doubting you. Merely saying that I have a female that displays some remarkable colourartion


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Thanks - I will do that now


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Actually, you said that the pet shop breed them? They should keep a log of all hatch dates.

I do, and I'm sure plenty others do. I had one yesterday and one today to push my baby quota up to 7 at the moment! Both dates are already in the diary.


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## Archibaldinho (Apr 23, 2013)

Also looking in the most recent picture. That does look male as the face is very blue. :-(


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