# Most misconstrued Fish-Myths of all time.



## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I think this is a good idea for a thread considering how much incorrect information is circulating out there. Everyone who knows me can tell you I dislike constant voicing of opinions when the facts are out there for our luxury. I encourage everyone who has ever been 100% sure of something who was initially mislead by a "random-know-it-all" to participate and contribute to this thread. I will look for a sticky if it become as productive and informative as I had hoped. 

Fish-myth #1: A fish's stomach is about the size of it's EYE. (LOL!) 

Gimme a break people....this might be accurate for smaller tropicals but not even close for Cichlids, catfish, Pacus and larger species. I have a catfish as well as a few large Cichlids that eat pellets that are equal to the size of it's eye, yet they manage to consume anywhere between 20-30 of them and used to have a Pacu that swallowed 40-60 twice a day. let's do away with that one, please.

Fish-myth #2: changing out too much water will result in loss of natural bacteria.

False. The majority of natural bacteria resides in places they can anchor into such as the filter, decor (rocks, driftwood, gravel, etc.), rather than the water column itself. As long as you have a decent amount of places for natural bacteria to dwell, you can change out 25%, 50%, or even 75% of the water on a weekly basis, depending on nitrate/ammonia levels. The exception to this rule would be if you have a tank with a large fish and no decor ......you would not want to do a thorough siphoning of the gravel 100%, and change too much water AND clean the filter all at the same time. That WILL result in loss of bacteria.

Fish-myth #3: "[insert species] is very aggressive and should not be kept with [insert species]".

True there are some species that typically tend to have nastier attitudes, be more territorial, blood-thirsty or down-right psychotic, however there are also many individuals of that same species that may be timid and shy, laid back and retreat, much like in the same retrospect there can be species labelled semi-aggressive or mildly aggressive that can turn evil and destroy everything in sight. Chosing compatible tankmates can be tricky as a result of this and the "lists" of what's compatible is only true to a certain extent, as it will ultimately come down to which INDIVIDUALS are more dominating. 

I have seen Green Terrors/Gold Saums that OWN a tank w/ Flowerhorns, Jack Dempseys, and Jewels, and I have seen Jewels kill Green Terrors, Jack Dempseys, etc. I have seen Oscars live peacefully with Jaguars, Jacks, and Convicts, and I have also seen a pair of Convicts kill an Oscar several times it's own size. 1/50 Jack Dempseys turns highly psychotic and must be kept alone, some Texas Cichlids are total punks and some are insanely aggressive 24/7. I could go on and on.....*clip*


That is all I can think of atm,...there are many more, but I'm a bit sick and my brain isn't working so I'll come back here later. Feel free to have some fun with this thread, people. 

THIS IS A JOB FOR.........................MYTH-BUSTERS.....


ok, maybe not, but we can pretend


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Goldfish bowls are acceptable... no explanation required!

A fish will only grow to the size of the tank- detest this one!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I hate the fish will grow to the size of the tank one. Isn't it more that poor water conditions stunt the fishes growth?


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Fish secrete chemicals which limit their growth- in small tanks these build up hence the stunting.

This is why fry tanks have massive water changes carried out on them.

Water quality and diet also play a part.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

"Victor Creed knows what he's talking about"... biggest fish myth ever :whistling2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

you can pull a mullets lips off when you catch them......
Oh sorry,,,, This isn't an angling thread.....


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

SW-morelia said:


> you can pull a mullets lips off when you catch them......
> Oh sorry,,,, This isn't an angling thread.....


Fish are friends not food:bash::bash::bash:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> Fish are friends not food:bash::bash::bash:


They're both, surely?

Fine.. fine... a fish myth: they don't feel pain. Did a thread about somewhere down the page


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I hate the fish will grow to the size of the tank one. Isn't it more that poor water conditions stunt the fishes growth?


I was actually going to include this one but I wasn't sure how to word it since it is not a myth, but actually true. Fish WILL only grow to the size of their tank, however that is ultimately a result of stunting that causes this to happen. There are several factors that cause stunting, but just as it is difficult to determine WHEN stunting occurs, it is equally difficult to determine which factor are responsible, thus making it mandatory to simply get a big tank and plan for the duration of your fish's life.



hippyhaplos said:


> Fish secrete chemicals which limit their growth- in small tanks these build up hence the stunting.
> 
> This is why fry tanks have massive water changes carried out on them.
> 
> Water quality and diet also play a part.


Same concept, similar post, I feel they go hand-in-hand and should be addressed in the same post. I have also discovered that whether or not these "chemicals" exist, not only tanks walls, but porous surfaces such as breeder nets used to isolate babies will also prevent them from growing, despite the amount of water they are being kept in that the netting allows to pass through. Not sure if it's very simple or if fish are smarter than we think, but they can not be "fooled" by this and their systems recognize it as well. This is a very tough one to address as I have heard mixed thought in reference to the chemical secretions, which IMO would be most similar to the Jacobson's Organ located in the roof of the mouth on snakes, Monitor lizards and Helodermatidae. Very different of course, but none-the-less, sensory organs and I'm sure the fish's lateral line also plays a major part in this as well.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> Fish are friends not food:bash::bash::bash:


Especially when they are tucked into a bed of chips.......:devil:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

AshMashMash said:


> They're both, surely?
> 
> Fine.. fine... a fish myth: they don't feel pain. Did a thread about somewhere down the page


haha not for me:2thumb:

Yup I was on it


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

hippyhaplos said:


> Fish are friends not food:bash::bash::bash:


I ate Cod in front of my goldfish, I felt bad:blush:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

hippyhaplos said:


> Yup I was on it


Yeh I saw'd'd thanks. I just couldn't be bothered to respond to the "NO THEY DON'T" people.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

_jake_ said:


> I ate Cod in front of my goldfish, I felt bad:blush:


haha as long as they weren't in a bowl you'll be fine:whistling2::whistling2:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Thought they're fine in a bowl? They can see the telly so they're not bored :lol: :whistling2:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

haha just realised what they're called... you ate Cod infront of Tuna... that is really harsh!:lol2::lol2:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm having tuna tomorrow for lunch, MUHAHAHAHAHA.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

_jake_ said:


> I ate Cod in front of my goldfish, I felt bad:blush:





hippyhaplos said:


> haha as long as they weren't in a bowl you'll be fine:whistling2::whistling2:





_jake_ said:


> Thought they're fine in a bowl? They can see the telly so they're not bored :lol: :whistling2:





hippyhaplos said:


> haha just realised what they're called... you ate Cod infront of Tuna... that is really harsh!:lol2::lol2:





_jake_ said:


> I'm having tuna tomorrow for lunch, MUHAHAHAHAHA.



Guys, guys. Victor would prefer it if every single post related 100% to the topic specified and absolutely nothing simply "close" to it. Just to warn ya :whistling2:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

That's just a myth:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Who is Victor? Victor Krum? *WOOOOOOOOOOP 10 nerd points*


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

its a bit of a pity this has gone off topic so quickly, i thought it would make a great thread to be honest :neutral: seemed to start well enough.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

What about leaving the tank to settle a week before putting the fish in? 
This is not cycling a tank:bash:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I was actually going to include this one but I wasn't sure how to word it since it is not a myth, but actually true. Fish WILL only grow to the size of their tank, however that is ultimately a result of stunting that causes this to happen. There are several factors that cause stunting, but just as it is difficult to determine WHEN stunting occurs, it is equally difficult to determine which factor are responsible, thus making it mandatory to simply get a big tank and plan for the duration of your fish's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Same concept, similar post, I feel they go hand-in-hand and should be addressed in the same post. I have also discovered that whether or not these "chemicals" exist, not only tanks walls, but porous surfaces such as breeder nets used to isolate babies will also prevent them from growing, despite the amount of water they are being kept in that the netting allows to pass through. Not sure if it's very simple or if fish are smarter than we think, but they can not be "fooled" by this and their systems recognize it as well. This is a very tough one to address as I have heard mixed thought in reference to the chemical secretions, which IMO would be most similar to the Jacobson's Organ located in the roof of the mouth on snakes, Monitor lizards and Helodermatidae. Very different of course, but none-the-less, sensory organs and I'm sure the fish's lateral line also plays a major part in this as well.


Surely this is only true to a certain extent?

For example, an arowana in a 2ft tank is bound to outgrow it even with stunted growth? I mean, there's only so much a fish can limit it's growth, I'd have thought anyway.


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## madguppy (Jan 1, 2011)

a few more fish myths

1. guppys are to inbreed ) 

2. guppys are more exceptable to diseases when kept at low temps- example
70f 

3. swordtails can change sex )

4. live food should only be fed as a treat only 2 or 3 times a week)

5. adult livebearers will leave there fry alone for the first 24 hours )

*
*


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

madguppy said:


> a few more fish myths
> 
> 1. guppys are to inbreed )
> 
> ...


this, with the exception of 1.- this is sadly true, guppies ARE too inbred, & nowhere near as tough as they used to be. they used to be almost disease-proof, but not anymore.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

myths:

jack dempseys are among the most savage cichlids, & can't be kept with any other fish.

red tailed & red finned sharks are placid community fish.

you have to have a high-tech, complex, expensive system to grow plants.

cardinal & rummy nose tetras can't live in hard water.

damsels make excellent beginners marine fish, & can be kept in a community tank with no problems.

large cichlids are incompatible with u/g filtration.

tiger barbs are community fish, & if you keep them in a shoal, they'll stop nipping other fishes fins.


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## Sutters (Oct 31, 2009)

Is This a fish myth?.

Fish have a 2 second memory lol


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## madguppy (Jan 1, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> this, with the exception of 1.- this is sadly true, guppies ARE too inbred, & nowhere near as tough as they used to be. they used to be , but not anymore.


it's a myth they are still almost disease-proof :lol2:


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## madguppy (Jan 1, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> this, with the exception of 1.- this is sadly true, guppies ARE too inbred, & nowhere near as tough as they used to be. they used to be , but not anymore.


it's a myth they are still almost disease-proof


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

That Panga is as nice as cod


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Sutters said:


> Is This a fish myth?.
> 
> Fish have a 2 second memory lol


a real myth- many fish, especially cichlids, remember things for years.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

That marine tanks need to be 100 gallons plus.

That you can't keep marines without a skimmer.

That you shouldn't keep tropical/marine/fish in general without having a goldfish tank to practice on first.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Devi said:


> That marine tanks need to be 100 gallons plus.
> 
> That you can't keep marines without a skimmer.
> 
> That you shouldn't keep tropical/marine/fish in general without having a goldfish tank to practice on first.


all these- but i recommend a skimmer, as it allows for fewer tedious water changes. my last tank was a 12 gal orca nano reef set-up- it was also my most successful marine tank. my least successful was a 35 gal, so size ain't everything!


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

A skimmer is nice, but can be expensive and isn't needed, although I do run on my tank, it was broke for a few months a while back and I noticed very little difference, it was only when I was performing some basic maintenance that I realised.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

The stomach and fish eye one mentioned in Vc openeing thread has become corrupted over the years ,it was Max Gibbs owner of the Goldfish Bowl in Oxford that suggested you should aim to imagine you a feeding a fish working on the assumption that the stomach was the size of a fishes eye.

This is sound practice because stuffing fish with as much as they can eat just leads them to passing through unprocessed food and leading to poor water quality.

One of the great myths is floating fish when you get them home even after half an hour the water in the bag maybe the same but the temp of the fish is not.It can take a fish days and even weeks to adjust to pH as well ,its a pointless exercise that leads to stress as the fish is left thrashing around in the bag .

"Nitrite is poisonous to marine fish" another myth ,marine fish can stand relatively high levels of nitrite ,Nitrite is a salt and is secreted by the fish .


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> a real myth- many fish, especially cichlids, remember things for years.


Not sure if that's a myth or not. I have noticed Cichlids are highly-organized "pack-hunters" and I have seen fish hold "grudges" ...in other words, a fish that was once bullied and forced to cower previously, but grows larger and more aware becomes increasingly violent. Almost as if the bullying causes some type of psychological damage that is later triggered as it matures.



Graylord said:


> The stomach and fish eye one mentioned in Vc openeing thread has become corrupted over the years ,it was Max Gibbs owner of the Goldfish Bowl in Oxford that suggested you should aim to imagine you a feeding a fish working on the assumption that the stomach was the size of a fishes eye.
> 
> This is sound practice because stuffing fish with as much as they can eat just leads them to passing through unprocessed food and leading to poor water quality.


I'm not contradicting your psot at all, but if I attempted to feed some of my fish an amount of food equivalent to merely the size of it's eye, I think I would walk in on some carcasses and half-eaten fish one day. Some fish reeaaaaalllllyyyyy have hell big appetites. Unfortunatley, despite what size is accurate for approximating their stomach, I have noticed many fish that will continue to eat even after their belly is bulging, catfish in particular. Ever hear the old phrase people use on their kids, "your eyes are bigger than your stomach"? LOL



Graylord said:


> One of the great myths is floating fish when you get them home even after half an hour the water in the bag maybe the same but the temp of the fish is not.It can take a fish days and even weeks to adjust to pH as well ,its a pointless exercise that leads to stress as the fish is left thrashing around in the bag .
> 
> "Nitrite is poisonous to marine fish" another myth ,marine fish can stand relatively high levels of nitrite ,Nitrite is a salt and is secreted by the fish .


So what is the recommended practice these days? The drip-method, in which the fish is placed in a bucket with it's original water and a small tube siphons water from the tank into the bucket very slowly to acclimate it? I have also always wondered (and I asked this before) if it was ok simply to move a fish from "Tank A = 80 degrees F to Tank B = 80 degrees F " w/out any type of acclimating or would the PH shock them or would it actually be LESS stressfull?


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Graylord said:


> One of the great myths is floating fish when you get them home even after half an hour the water in the bag maybe the same but the temp of the fish is not.It can take a fish days and even weeks to adjust to pH as well ,its a pointless exercise that leads to stress as the fish is left thrashing around in the bag .


Floating the fish alone is fairly pointless, but if you introduce the tank water to the bag drop by drop then that goes a long way toward avoiding shock or stress based fungus outbreaks on release. It might not fix it completely, but surely a little bit helps out a lot.
Obviously if the fish is stressed then there's no point though, one of my fish jumped its bag as soon as it was open, it had a bit of gasping for a day or so, but had no long term bad effects.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

keeping fish in tanks... snakes in rubs... birds in cages...

is only second best to me...

i have millions of snakes, turtles, salamanders, frogs, toads, lizards... everything in the wild...

keeping them contained just satisfies my selfish desires...


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## courseithurts (Dec 29, 2010)

hippyhaplos said:


> A fish will only grow to the size of the tank- detest this one!


 if i had a quid for every time i heard that 1 lol 
it windssssssssss me up so much


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> Not sure if that's a myth or not. I have noticed Cichlids are highly-organized "pack-hunters" and I have seen fish hold "grudges" ...in other words, a fish that was once bullied and forced to cower previously, but grows larger and more aware becomes increasingly violent. Almost as if the bullying causes some type of psychological damage that is later triggered as it matures.


my post was a response to the 'short memory' myth- i was saying that's a myth, & that cichlids & many other fish can remember things for years.


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

u forgot the 1 about if a neon tetra eats all its carrots it can see better in the dark


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> a real myth- many fish, especially cichlids, remember things for years.


how do you know


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> my post was a response to the 'short memory' myth- i was saying that's a myth, & that cichlids & many other fish can remember things for years.



oh, I see...the way you typed it made it seem like you were saying the opposite.



crazyg said:


> how do you know


It's pretty obvious to a Cichlid owner who pay attention to animal behavior. You can clearly see they learn very quick and remember things that are harmful, especially certain fish, even kept with other fish of the same species that are virtually identical. If you have ever kept cichlids, you may have already seen a fish that got bullied and now that it has grown and gotten more aggressive, it now wishes to "return the favor" to the other fish that bullied it, YET.....it may completely ignore other fish that never bothered it nor were territorial or aggressive.


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

but how do u know


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

crazyg said:


> but how do u know


Get out of my classroom. I don't have time for childish nonsense and games.


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

what u on about????? i asked how do u know


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

so....cant you answer the question then ?????? how do u no that fish can remeber stuff for "in your words" years, did 1 tell u a story about when it was an egg???


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

crazyg said:


> so....cant you answer the question then ?????? how do u no that fish can remeber stuff for "in your words" years, did 1 tell u a story about when it was an egg???


scientific studies have proven that cichlids learn things & that they remember what they've learned- mormyrids also.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

crazyg said:


> so....cant you answer the question then ?????? how do u no that fish can remeber stuff for "in your words" years, did 1 tell u a story about when it was an egg???


 scientific studies aside; it is very obvious especially with large, older lived fish (like big cichlds as mentioned) can learn things

goldfish are a good example; they are often dubbed only having a 3 second memory but it's not the case 

when i get home i'll have a look for some papers/viedeos for you


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

thanks for the reply the op told me to get out his class room i only asked how do you no an he sed summat about me being childish idiot


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

crazyg said:


> thanks for the reply the op told me to get out his class room i only asked how do you no an he sed summat about me being childish idiot


 
I think thats because you asked how did they know twice when they explained it already. 

I know my goldfish can remember and also they learn to associate things. My OH did his dissertation on goldfish learning to associate a coloured light to a certain area they would be fed.

The biggest myth I remember being told is that plecs only grown to 3 inches when I first brought one years ago.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

AshMashMash said:


> "Victor Creed knows what he's talking about"... biggest fish myth ever :whistling2:



Just read all of this PMSL. :2thumb:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

markn said:


> Just read all of this PMSL. :2thumb:



^^^^^^ and for anyone else who is NOT here to contribute and help the community..... GET OUT. I'm nor arguing, flaming, disrepecting, or anything of the like. Further desecration of my respectable thread will result in Moderational action and infractions issued. Keep it civil, keep it respectful and if not........ keep it to YOURSELF.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

here's another: that sucking loach (chinese algae eaters) are ideal algae eaters, & harmless community fish.
also, that 3-spot/opaline gouramies are peaceful towards other fish.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> ^^^^^^ and for anyone else who is NOT here to contribute and help the community..... GET OUT. I'm nor arguing, flaming, disrepecting, or anything of the like. Further desecration of my respectable thread will result in Moderational action and infractions issued. Keep it civil, keep it respectful and if not........ keep it to YOURSELF.


he has a point- let's all play nice, eh?


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> ^^^^^^ and for anyone else who is NOT here to contribute and help the community..... GET OUT. I'm nor arguing, flaming, disrepecting, or anything of the like. Further desecration of my respectable thread will result in Moderational action and infractions issued. Keep it civil, keep it respectful and if not........ keep it to YOURSELF.



Oops looks like we hit a nerve guys, sorry victor no disrespect intended jusy carrying on with forum banter. :welcome:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> Further desecration of my respectable thread will result in Moderational action and infractions issued.


Lol, if you say so :Na_Na_Na_Na:

If you stop being so arsey about things people might not reply like that! Keep it light hearted, this is just a reptile forum on the internet for god's sake.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I want some moderational action, sounds kinda horny.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I want some moderational action, sounds kinda horny.


 :lol2:


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## Junior13reptilez (Oct 17, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> ^^^^^^ and for anyone else who is NOT here to contribute and help the community..... GET OUT. I'm nor arguing, flaming, disrepecting, or anything of the like. Further desecration of my respectable thread will result in Moderational action and infractions issued. Keep it civil, keep it respectful and if not........ keep it to YOURSELF.


 Hahaha. That's a pritty tragic few sentences there...Mod wannabe?


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Myths are legendary. 

More interesting than the myths is where did they come from?

Who measured the 3 second memory of a goldfish?
Was it..."now look at this picture"....wait 3 seconds..."what did I show you?" to which the fish answers (like a dunce) "doooop!!". Proof.

Who asked half a dozen 18 inch clown loaches in a 2 foot tank if they prefer to be bought as a group of 6?

I go back over 40 years, and at one time you would hear 'Discus are difficult to keep warm"...... yep, that is soooo true in the days when fish tanks were heated by a couple of candles under a slate-bottomed tank.
But no longer with my 300watt electronic controlled pulsed thermostatic heater.!!!

Snobbery.....who said that you need to be snob to be fish-keeper? 

How come most articles quote the same species of bacteria involved in nitrification as being at work on multi-story building sites, farmland, freshwater and marine water (and still get it wrong)? whooops.....Copy-n-paste merchants is the answer.
How to spot plagerisms in one easy go.

More seriously, this is a good thread and it allows some humour as well.

ian


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I wanted it to be totally serious and an entire thread filled with posts just like yours or my own, so in the manner it could be like a mini-book for references, but apparently people seem to enjoy de-railing threads regardless of how good it is. I have already asked a Moderator to clean the thread over a week ago, I guess they are too high-and-mighty to be bothered for anything except handing out infractions. :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:

The thread has indeed wandered off the beaten path, and people posting in it that I never even knew existed, so I don't understand myself, but whatever. Honestly, there were only a few people I actually wanted to post in this thread anyway, yourself being one of them.....and sadly it's that small % of people who actually proved they know their stuff when it comes to fish keeping out of the majority.

I'll post some more fish-mythsand get the thread back on the right path, but I just lost motivation from all the trolling that these random posters were doing....but that's typical in life - no matter where you go, no matter how good you try and do, there are always some player-haters watching from the sideline who are ready to go out of their way and ruin what you are trying to accomplish just so they can have some company in their miserable little V.I.P box-of-failures.

Rant over, let's get this thread back on track while it still has potential.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> I wanted it to be totally serious and an entire thread filled with posts just like yours or my own, so in the manner it could be like a mini-book for references, but apparently people seem to enjoy de-railing threads regardless of how good it is. I have already asked a Moderator to clean the thread over a week ago, I guess they are too high-and-mighty to be bothered for anything except handing out infractions. :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> The thread has indeed wandered off the beaten path, and people posting in it that I never even knew existed, so I don't understand myself, but whatever. Honestly, there were only a few people I actually wanted to post in this thread anyway, yourself being one of them.....and sadly it's that small % of people who actually proved they know their stuff when it comes to fish keeping out of the majority.
> 
> ...


i too, hate it when threads get hijacked by di:censor:heads- i've ranted about it myself many a time! as for the small % of people who know their stuff- the assistant manager of my LFS lamented this only weeks ago- he said that compared with 10 years back, few customers are serious hobbyists, & even fewer have a clue about what they're doing! he even said that most of the questions they get asked aren't your typical noob questions, but are moron questions asked by fishkeepers who are experienced enough to know better, & wonders why this is the case now, when it wasn't 10 years ago when most fishkeepers were intelligent enough to listen & learn.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Agreed, and I firmly believe that the desecration of this very thread is a result of stubborn people who think they are always right, when they not nearly as educated on these matters as they think. I absolutely think that probably 50% of the people who own animals should NOT own anything living, considering their level of common sense (or is it uncommon?), and to make matters worse, they think people telling them the same thing repeatedly (which are nothing but facts) is attacking them personally, trolling or being aggressive, when it is nothing more than strong advice from people who are trying to prevent them from making mistakes.

Many people seem to have a serious problem accepting confrontation and admitting they are wrong, and in turn they immaturely hold grudges and play little kiddy "get-back-games" as if this is 1st Grade or some lame-sh*t.......but they are going to act like that (unable to manage even themSELVES) and think people will be convinced that they can care for other living creatures responsibly? I don't understand why people are so brain-dead sometimes....it's horrible. People just need to grow up. 

I don't always mean to come-off in a certain way, but some of the utter stupidity that exists these days is despicable and I firmly believe that alot of people need to go back to school, get a better education or start listening to advice before they even THINK about owning a living creature. It's amazing some of them can care for their children properly, and I also think there should be certifications and licensing for having children as well, just to make sure the parents are capable and not just reproducing to add more stupidity to this planet. Seriously.....if they can barely manage to keep their animals alive, how the HELL can they take care of human beings? Harsh, sad, extreme, and im sure quite offensive to some, but very very true.

My motto in life is "If you are getting mad at hearing the truth, don't get mad at the person observing and relaying....get mad at yourself for allowing it to BE true.........then fix what's wrong with yourself so the truth is changed for the better."

Layman's terms, basically if some calls you an idiot, and you really ARE an idiot, don't get mad at them....get mad at yourself and stop being such an idiot.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Agreed, and I firmly believe that the desecration of this very thread is a result of stubborn people who think they are always right, when they not nearly as educated on these matters as they think. I absolutely think that probably 50% of the people who own animals should NOT own anything living, considering their level of common sense (or is it uncommon?), and to make matters worse, they think people telling them the same thing repeatedly (which are nothing but facts) is attacking them personally, trolling or being aggressive, when it is nothing more than strong advice from people who are trying to prevent them from making mistakes.
> 
> Many people seem to have a serious problem accepting confrontation and admitting they are wrong, and in turn they immaturely hold grudges and play little kiddy "get-back-games" as if this is 1st Grade or some lame-sh*t.......but they are going to act like that (unable to manage even themSELVES) and think people will be convinced that they can care for other living creatures responsibly? I don't understand why people are so brain-dead sometimes....it's horrible. People just need to grow up.
> 
> ...


: victory:


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Now, I like a good bit of humour.....and it can actually be used to good effect to get the more serious side of things across.
But the focus still needs to be on the more serious item at hand.

In fact, I am quite cynical....but not sinister. 

I go to business meetings and like to have a bit of humorous banter before getting down to business.....I even use it to scout the land to see who is so up-tight and threatened because they don't know their stuff that they are 'oh so serious from time = zero'. 

But there is a limit to how far the humour goes before it stops being funny..... we all have experienced the attention grabbers at school.....unable to get attention through putting together a few useful words or making a nice piece of art or trying to be good at sports....so they fart or make silly noises to get attention, or they wait for those who try to do something to fall or stumble. Failing, they may become teachers-pet.
How pathetic, and that mentality often goes into adult hood.

I have no problems with confrontation on the discussion of fish keeping.
Moreover, I have a history of doing talks and articles that often go directly against the grain of many common myths.
If I say it, then I have said it and I can either defend what I said or review what I said, and it would be rather silly to get childish over such.

The internet doesn't help at all here......someone may do a copy-n-paste to answer something they have no notion about. But here is the problem....if they are challenged or asked to expand further they can't: so the only retort left is for them to hide safely behind some circular rubbish going nowhere.

Looking at myths is an important topic as it often addresses directly (and with a nice added humour allowance) those bits that explain why 'fish die without explanation'. 

Looking back at old books, I can still give a great deal of credibility to the authors of the 1930s as they were pioneering a newish hobby. We may be able to show they had a few things wrong now, but that doesn't take away from their superb attempt to get things going.
But to see the old mis-conceptions or chinese whispers still going on now is not good.

On the other hand, I also see a new culture of snobbery has introduced its own myths and pooh pooh older texts even though we now know that the older text was right in the first place.

Expensive filtration systems, willy-nilly buying test-kits (without trying to understand what is being tested and why) are all contributing to a snobbery based upon 'marketing myths' and other superficial looks at fish keeping.

So...back to some important myths....some may actually be the truth, but it is still interesting to see what might be considered as a myth (and the reasons behind it).

ian


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

igmillichip said:


> Now, I like a good bit of humour.....and it can actually be used to good effect to get the more serious side of things across.
> But the focus still needs to be on the more serious item at hand.
> 
> In fact, I am quite cynical....but not sinister.
> ...


All so so true :notworthy:: victory:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

igmillichip said:


> we all have experienced the attention grabbers at school.....unable to get attention through putting together a few useful words or making a nice piece of art or trying to be good at sports....so they fart or make silly noises to get attention, or they wait for those who try to do something to fall or stumble. Failing, they may become teachers-pet.
> How pathetic, and that mentality often goes into adult hood.


Hope none of that's related to me. I don't like to be 100% serious on any thread I post on, on RFUK. It's why I tend to stay in off topic sections. I've been here a fair while, done a fair bit of posting, and done my fair share of posting in the fish section (before yours and Victor's time). 

My first post in here was simply some light humour, mocking Victor, which I thought he would take in his stride and say something along the lines of "Oh you old chap :whip:". But apparently not, and I was _way_ out of line, and in for a good bottom slapping from the mods (still waiting, btw). 

If he didn't get his knickers in such a twist my _next_ post would have been about fish feeling pain. As it happens it _was _the very next post - but apparently not good enough. I think the error was perhaps me including a "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" monkey diagram later on - it was relevant to my stance on pain in fish, and as you say I was trying to inject a small amount of humour into what would otherwise be a possibly dry thread. 

I would love to debate the pain thing in fish - it's surely on of the biggest fish myths out there? But I gave up after I was shot down and "told off" by mod-wannabe Victor Meldrew.


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

igmillichip said:


> Now, I like a good bit of humour.....and it can actually be used to good effect to get the more serious side of things across.
> But the focus still needs to be on the more serious item at hand.
> 
> In fact, I am quite cynical....but not sinister.
> ...


Never a truer word said.


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

@AshMashMash....no, none of that is aimed at you, nor anyone in particular.
If it were, I'd have stated it was. 

On some forums, I do tend to keep to the off-topic fun chat, I like fun in my life.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

igmillichip said:


> @AshMashMash....no, none of that is aimed at you, nor anyone in particular.
> If it were, I'd have stated it was.
> 
> On some forums, I do tend to keep to the off-topic fun chat, I like fun in my life.


No worries then - regardless I wanted to say my piece :blush: lol. 

Off Topic is where the fun is indeed...


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## Lord Monty (Jul 1, 2009)

_"if you cross a fish with a crab you get a turtle"_


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

AshMashMash said:


> Hope none of that's related to me. I don't like to be 100% serious on any thread I post on, on RFUK. It's why I tend to stay in off topic sections. I've been here a fair while, done a fair bit of posting, and done my fair share of posting in the fish section (before yours and Victor's time).
> 
> My first post in here was simply some light humour, mocking Victor, which I thought he would take in his stride and say something along the lines of "Oh you old chap :whip:". But apparently not, and I was _way_ out of line, and in for a good bottom slapping from the mods (still waiting, btw).
> 
> ...


 I dont think it was directed at either of us tbh as the moderators are quite sensible and can see the difference between a a bit of forum banter and plain old bullying. :2thumb:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

AshMashMash said:


> Hope none of that's related to me. I don't like to be 100% serious on any thread I post on, on RFUK. It's why I tend to stay in off topic sections. I've been here a fair while, done a fair bit of posting, and done my fair share of posting in the fish section (before yours and Victor's time).
> 
> My first post in here was simply some light humour, mocking Victor, which I thought he would take in his stride and say something along the lines of "Oh you old chap :whip:". But apparently not, and I was _way_ out of line, and in for a good bottom slapping from the mods (still waiting, btw).
> 
> ...



Nah, I just wanted this thread to be nothing but posts stating myths deciphered. All the extra stuff wasn't what I wanted, no big deal, but you had been getting under my skin and trolling me so I had to return the favor. That's just how I am and always will be. As far as a Mod-wannabee, I am very not at all, and I probably have one of the worst tempers of anyone in existence, so "authority" isn't my cup-of-tea. I just wanted this ONE thread to be decent...that is all. 

I also know entirely too much about the human-pysche and how people think to be fooled by some bullsh*t, manipulation and people trying to play the victim's role after they started what they couldn't finish. You know why I was p*ssed and we had words about it. I have let it go since then, I suggest you do the same. Those are the types of people I have a problem with IRL. That's simply nothing more than "being real"......if u start something, be prepared to deal with what comes after.

Anyway, i think I have made my point and everyone gets the idea. Great post by igmilllichip as well.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> if u start something, be prepared to deal with what comes after..


I did? It was you who stopped the wall messages, and still haven't replied to me other post! I'm sure we'd get on irl :2thumb:


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

"You need an airstone in your tank to keep your fish healthy" NO!


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