# stacking vivs for one big enclosure



## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Hi guys,

I'm soon to be getting a chinese water dragon and I want to get a viv that is 4ft long 2ft deep and 6ft high, now looking to buy one at those sizes isn't all the possible I have to buy either 2 or three.

So looking on ebay I found this viv https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Repti-Li...rentrq:3fad341c1630abc1d5ce5074fffb9d87|iid:1
and it looks really nice read some reviews on other sites and all is good, my questions is because I would need thee to give me the total 6ft I want, can I stack these without the bottom layer of wood and insert the screws into the top of the viv it will be sitting on, or is it better to keep the bottom of the viv and just cut out a rather large hole so the dragon can climb up into each one???
Thanks


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

I wouldnt personally. Plus its gonna be at least 300 quid. You could make one for about 80 to 100 pound. Even if you had the plywood cut for you wouldnt cost any more than 150 quid. For the edge of the ply as it looks naff could use filla on the edges. Sand it down and paint the entire viv or get some edge banding that matched the colour of your ply and iron it on. Simples.


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## Rolls (Apr 7, 2018)

Yeah I agree, if you're capable of fixing these together you can look online for a tutorial on how to make one from scratch, it isn't too difficult really, I've made a couple out of old wardrobes as I find them cheaper than buying new melamine, you just have to work with what you have a bit better.


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

wagg said:


> I wouldnt personally. Plus its gonna be at least 300 quid. You could make one for about 80 to 100 pound. Even if you had the plywood cut for you wouldnt cost any more than 150 quid. For the edge of the ply as it looks naff could use filla on the edges. Sand it down and paint the entire viv or get some edge banding that matched the colour of your ply and iron it on. Simples.





Rolls said:


> Yeah I agree, if you're capable of fixing these together you can look online for a tutorial on how to make one from scratch, it isn't too difficult really, I've made a couple out of old wardrobes as I find them cheaper than buying new melamine, you just have to work with what you have a bit better.


Thank you for your advice and input guys I appreciate it. I have thought about making my own, however I would need to make it good against humidity as this will be for a chinese water dragon, I worry the plywood wouldn't last long, I did think about using plywood and not only sealing all the edges with aquarium silicone sealant but also placing perspex inside the viv over all the wood and then sealing that in place with the same stuff, that way no water would get onto the wood, do you reckon that would work or would it cause my CWD to see his refection more often?


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

Ye plywood will be fine. Im building one for my leachie. Just use a varnish inside like yatch varnish but will take weeks for it to fume out. But will be fine after that. You could do the perspex. Duno how it would look and effect the dragon. Im lineing the bottom of my new build with pond liner. Silicone or staple that in and then silicone the top of it so water cant get in behind it. Obvs still silicone the joints ect... go for 18mm ply. With im gonna silicone cork bark panels to all the sides. Gonna be a bit pricey but should look sick :lol2:


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

Even with putting those together in a stack, its still going to need support beams put in to strengthen it and every joint then sealed, same as you would if making your own. 
Its possible theres actually more you would have to physically do fixing separate ones together rather than a single design.

If i were going to put two together, i would look at something like 
120cm x 120cm x 60cm 48x48x24 Flat Packed Vivarium 4ft arboreal
and 120cm x 60cm x 60cm 48x24x24 Flat Packed Vivarium 4ft

Use the base of the 4ft tall arboreal to then go on the bottom of everything, and the 2ftx2ft unit as the bottom section, roll it back on itself so the glass front bit faces upwards.

Assemble the 2ftx2ft unit exactly like normal, but sit it on the 4ft arboreal's base , put support batons in each of the internal 4 corners and seal every internal seam/touching edge with aquarium sealant.
Maybe line the bottom section as well, it would enable you to give a soild deep substrate and even plant in it. The issue will be if those units measurements are exact and reliable so the two units line up well.












It would be just as easy to order precut panels off a good DIY store, you will be in the same position of having to seal it all up and fix together, less need for internal supports, no extra base panel to account for weight distribution, the plastic runners can be bought from DIY stores, you can order the glass door size you want. Maybe even look at custom viv builders, i hear there are some on facebook and you can google too.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Azastral said:


> Even with putting those together in a stack, its still going to need support beams put in to strengthen it and every joint then sealed, same as you would if making your own.
> Its possible theres actually more you would have to physically do fixing separate ones together rather than a single design.
> 
> If i were going to put two together, i would look at something like
> ...



This, or you could convert an old wardrobe. 
In my opinion a 4x4x2 will last quite a while on its own providing it is furnished well enough (just what I found in my experience keeping wds. They can get pretty big though on par with juvinile iguanas so definitely will need a larger extension at a later time.


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

wagg said:


> Ye plywood will be fine. Im building one for my leachie. Just use a varnish inside like yatch varnish but will take weeks for it to fume out. But will be fine after that. You could do the perspex. Duno how it would look and effect the dragon. Im lineing the bottom of my new build with pond liner. Silicone or staple that in and then silicone the top of it so water cant get in behind it. Obvs still silicone the joints ect... go for 18mm ply. With im gonna silicone cork bark panels to all the sides. Gonna be a bit pricey but should look sick :lol2:


Silly question but would the pond lining not give off a toxic fume after long exposure to the heat and uv light? If not I was thinking of lining pond liner all around? No reflection issues to worry about then, and no water would touch the wood. 



Azastral said:


> Even with putting those together in a stack, its still going to need support beams put in to strengthen it and every joint then sealed, same as you would if making your own.
> Its possible theres actually more you would have to physically do fixing separate ones together rather than a single design.
> 
> If i were going to put two together, i would look at something like
> ...


You are defiantly right it would be easier to just make one or buy one at that size, I want it to look right and no a bodge job, only thing is why making one using DIY wood is I need it a certain colour walnut to be specific else it won't look right in our house and the mrs won't let it in the house, even using varnish it wouldn't look right. 

So I looked into some custom viv makers as you mentioned on facebook and google, I also did this over the weekend and no one has got back to me yet so bit stumped at the moment.

Would just sealing in between the wood and inside the viv edges with sealant be enough to stop the humidity breaking the wood down or not?



Salazare Slytherin said:


> This, or you could convert an old wardrobe.
> In my opinion a 4x4x2 will last quite a while on its own providing it is furnished well enough (just what I found in my experience keeping wds. They can get pretty big though on par with juvinile iguanas so definitely will need a larger extension at a later time.


I was thinking of getting a 4ftx2x3 just for the time being but it's then spending out again later and also moving him, I thought it would be better they be in the same viv all there life no moving around or stress then?


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Azastral said:


> Even with putting those together in a stack, its still going to need support beams put in to strengthen it and every joint then sealed, same as you would if making your own.
> Its possible theres actually more you would have to physically do fixing separate ones together rather than a single design.
> 
> If i were going to put two together, i would look at something like
> ...


Just looking and thinking what if from the same place you go those links from I bought 2 of these 120cm x 90cm x 60cm 48x36x24 Flat Packed Vivarium 4ft arboreal

They are 3ft high so I'll get my 6ft height, then placing them on top of each other like you are showing above only instead of those support beams if I was to cut a 3ft hole between the top and bottom viv's, but still keeping there bottom and top layer of wood attached to them so giving me half a foot of wood each side and cut in from 3inches around the hole where glass and back part sides are, then screwing the two vivs together that way, (hope that makes sense) surely doing that there would still be enough wood left on the two vivs to make good enough strength to support eachother? 

What are your thoughts on that idea?


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

I wouldnt imagine it would as its designed for fish so wa good would it be if it did that and killed them :s. But id would only be lineing the bottom where the soil will be. Wouldnt cover the entire thing.


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## Dungbug (Oct 16, 2007)

I've got the floor area (& partially up the sides) covered in pond liner in my CWD enclosure, it's fine to use. 
I'm toying with the idea of building a new enclosure for him using a wardrobe as the base. Aquarium sealant on the joins, lined (he loves his large pool and splashes a lot) & I'm going to have a crack at covering the back and sides with expanding foam and carving a rock type background leaving some spaces for trailing live plants. He's currently in a 6ft (L) x 4ft (H) x 2ft (D), I want him to have at least 6ft in height. 
Consider the wardrobe route as a base, plenty of second had ones out there. I'm looking out for a triple wardrobe to get the width, even buy the glass for the doors it'll work out a lot cheaper than purchasing something off the shelf and you can factor in things like hiding the wiring etc. When I find a secondhand wardrobe that the right size & price I'll be getting on with building my own for him, looking forward to it. : victory:


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Dungbug said:


> I've got the floor area (& partially up the sides) covered in pond liner in my CWD enclosure, it's fine to use.
> I'm toying with the idea of building a new enclosure for him using a wardrobe as the base. Aquarium sealant on the joins, lined (he loves his large pool and splashes a lot) & I'm going to have a crack at covering the back and sides with expanding foam and carving a rock type background leaving some spaces for trailing live plants. He's currently in a 6ft (L) x 4ft (H) x 2ft (D), I want him to have at least 6ft in height.
> Consider the wardrobe route as a base, plenty of second had ones out there. I'm looking out for a triple wardrobe to get the width, even buy the glass for the doors it'll work out a lot cheaper than purchasing something off the shelf and you can factor in things like hiding the wiring etc. When I find a secondhand wardrobe that the right size & price I'll be getting on with building my own for him, looking forward to it. : victory:


Ah good I'm glad you confirmed that pond liner won't hurt them, I would go up probably around 3-4ft high that way it won't be too close to the basking zone and high enough that no water should get up that high, though I'm thinking should I just seal all the edges with aquarium sealant then line the whole inside for extra protection??? In regards to the pond liner should I get a thick ish one so the claws can't go through it do you reckon? And what is this expanding foam stuff? is it water proof?

I was looking at wardrobes though can't ever find the correct size or colour to keep the mrs happy haha. So it'll have to for now stick with buying ready made vivs.


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## Dungbug (Oct 16, 2007)

I would use aquarium sealant on all joins to be on the safe side, any water ingress will bugger the wood. I've got the thicker type pond liner in mine, it's got a drainage layer & then soil. He's not a digger so doesn't get any contact with it, the liner that goes up the sides is covered with decor (cork bark) and the pool so he doesn't have any means of getting his claws near it 
Expanding foam is used for insulation, although when cured it can be carved which is what I'll be doing. Once carved/sculpted it's then painted (colours) coated in tile grout to seal it, I'll be securing my branches to the sides and top then building the foam backgrounds around then so hopefully it'll all 'blend' in nicely.
Personally I'd go higher than 4ft if possible, mine loves being higher up. When he's out he'll sit as high as possible around the house or perch himself on my head :lol2: I've got a bulb guard for his basking area and a branch nicely placed for him to bask under. Mine spends his time either in the branches or in his pool, rarely anywhere else which is why I'm planning my build based on an arboreal configuration rather than terrestrial. I'm sure he'll be happier with more height than he has now.


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Dungbug said:


> I would use aquarium sealant on all joins to be on the safe side, any water ingress will bugger the wood. I've got the thicker type pond liner in mine, it's got a drainage layer & then soil. He's not a digger so doesn't get any contact with it, the liner that goes up the sides is covered with decor (cork bark) and the pool so he doesn't have any means of getting his claws near it
> Expanding foam is used for insulation, although when cured it can be carved which is what I'll be doing. Once carved/sculpted it's then painted (colours) coated in tile grout to seal it, I'll be securing my branches to the sides and top then building the foam backgrounds around then so hopefully it'll all 'blend' in nicely.
> Personally I'd go higher than 4ft if possible, mine loves being higher up. When he's out he'll sit as high as possible around the house or perch himself on my head :lol2: I've got a bulb guard for his basking area and a branch nicely placed for him to bask under. Mine spends his time either in the branches or in his pool, rarely anywhere else which is why I'm planning my build based on an arboreal configuration rather than terrestrial. I'm sure he'll be happier with more height than he has now.


Are you based in the UK? If so what substrate is it you use is there specific name? Ok I'm going to sound like a right noob but what do you mean by drainage layer? What sort of soil do you use? Sorry I know I sound dumb I just want to get everything correct for my CWD all my animals are so important to me and I like to get everything perfect.

The viv I will be getting will be 4ft long 2ft deep and 6ft high he will only be a baby when I get him so he will have tons of room for quite some time haha


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## Dungbug (Oct 16, 2007)

mrdragon27 said:


> Are you based in the UK? If so what substrate is it you use is there specific name? Ok I'm going to sound like a right noob but what do you mean by drainage layer? What sort of soil do you use? Sorry I know I sound dumb I just want to get everything correct for my CWD all my animals are so important to me and I like to get everything perfect.
> 
> The viv I will be getting will be 4ft long 2ft deep and 6ft high he will only be a baby when I get him so he will have tons of room for quite some time haha


I am based in the UK. I used organic soil in my enclosure, the drainage layer is needed if using live plants (Same principle when you put a plant in a plant pot). Bioactive setups use clay balls, I used gravel with a weed mat on top and then covered with soil with clean up crews added. Also added sphagnum moss to help retain moisture, you can get this at most rep shops or (like I did) at your local garden centre as it was on sale. 
Mine seems very happy, key thing for me is to provide a large pool. The pool he has is 2.5ft x 1.5ft (1ft deep), I'm running an external aquarium filter with it as he seems to favour moving water (and keeps the water condition a lot better). I got an external filter off eBay for less than £30 posted, it's not as posh as a Fluval however it does what is required and is simple to maintain. 
If yours is 6ft high he'll be happy, use plenty of branches and hang foliage from the roof of the enclosure as this provides 'cover' and will make him/her feel more secure. I've got plastic foliage in mine for ease but the plants on the ground are all live, helps with the humidity levels & I personally I prefer seeing live plants than plastic 
Certainly use aquarium sealant on all of the joins, the environment needs to be humid and any damp ingress into the wood will bugger it up. My fella literally divebombs off his branch into his pool so there's a lot of water getting splashed everywhere as well as the regular misting that I do. The enclosure mine is in is the one he came with which wasn't in great shape due to damp getting into the wood hence why I'm looking to build another for him, the new one will be well sealed and lined on the based and partially up the sides. 
Is it a new Viv you're buying or 2nd hand?


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Dungbug said:


> I am based in the UK. I used organic soil in my enclosure, the drainage layer is needed if using live plants (Same principle when you put a plant in a plant pot). Bioactive setups use clay balls, I used gravel with a weed mat on top and then covered with soil with clean up crews added. Also added sphagnum moss to help retain moisture, you can get this at most rep shops or (like I did) at your local garden centre as it was on sale.
> Mine seems very happy, key thing for me is to provide a large pool. The pool he has is 2.5ft x 1.5ft (1ft deep), I'm running an external aquarium filter with it as he seems to favour moving water (and keeps the water condition a lot better). I got an external filter off eBay for less than £30 posted, it's not as posh as a Fluval however it does what is required and is simple to maintain.
> If yours is 6ft high he'll be happy, use plenty of branches and hang foliage from the roof of the enclosure as this provides 'cover' and will make him/her feel more secure. I've got plastic foliage in mine for ease but the plants on the ground are all live, helps with the humidity levels & I personally I prefer seeing live plants than plastic
> Certainly use aquarium sealant on all of the joins, the environment needs to be humid and any damp ingress into the wood will bugger it up. My fella literally divebombs off his branch into his pool so there's a lot of water getting splashed everywhere as well as the regular misting that I do. The enclosure mine is in is the one he came with which wasn't in great shape due to damp getting into the wood hence why I'm looking to build another for him, the new one will be well sealed and lined on the based and partially up the sides.
> Is it a new Viv you're buying or 2nd hand?


wow that is a nice big pool area he must love it, do you have a picture of your viv that I could see, if that's ok. with the pool being so big what do you use to keep the water in? Do you a container of some sort? I have looked at some filters and because my guy is young now I will be getting one of these filters plus it will also help with making the water move which I think will be a good idea, not sur how often i'll have to clean the filter though yet https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium...var=480197808491&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

How often do you change his water and out of curiosity do you use a water heater of some kind to keep the water the correct temp? I was looking at getting one so I can keep the water nice a warm for him.

I more than agree with you I prefer live plants just gives it that more of a real bio look to me and like you say that actual help with the humidity were as plastic ones don't haha. How many do you have in the viv? Plus you can get some lovely looking ones now.

I read somewhere that normal soil like that is supposed to me bad for them that can't be true then if you are using it, can't remember where I heard that from, people keep saying to use soil only made for reps.


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## Dungbug (Oct 16, 2007)

mrdragon27 said:


> wow that is a nice big pool area he must love it, do you have a picture of your viv that I could see, if that's ok. with the pool being so big what do you use to keep the water in? Do you a container of some sort? I have looked at some filters and because my guy is young now I will be getting one of these filters plus it will also help with making the water move which I think will be a good idea, not sur how often i'll have to clean the filter though yet https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium...var=480197808491&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
> 
> How often do you change his water and out of curiosity do you use a water heater of some kind to keep the water the correct temp? I was looking at getting one so I can keep the water nice a warm for him.
> 
> ...


The 'pool' is a poly fish tank (the sort you see at places selling Goldfish, Koi's etc, similar to this;
https://www.portonaquapet.co.uk/sho...9JmAfwFz4_9v2eN2nHgVDz0Go45ERN-caAkfqEALw_wcB

The bonus of this type is that it's nice and rigid, you can get thinner/cheaper ones but they do deteriorate over time (as did the one he can with which led to a flooded viv!). 

The filter I used is an external type, same as this one;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium...hash=item1a42007547:m:m-xhMVx4je-WlQmgV8Guuwg

I guess you could use one that sits in the water, I opted for an external so that I'm not faffing about inside his home when the media needs cleaning 
I don't have anything in there to heat the water, he spends a lot of time in the pool so I guess unheated water is acceptable. I'll do a water change every couple of weeks, the filter helps massively but I change it regardless. 

I did a fair bit of reading on the soil to use, as always with the net there's a lot of conflicting information. The general consensus was that organic potting soil (free of pesticides/chemicals etc) was OK to use, he's had this setup for several months now and there's been no health issues with him. He seems happy enough with his home 

This is an older photo of his viv, I've added more branches and live plants since this one was taken but it gives you an idea of the layout.









Inside the viv.









His pool, I put some slate in the bottom to give him a bit of 'traction' (probably not needed) and a large natural rock to act as a 'step' in & out









External pump outside of the viv, nice and easy to access for cleaning etc (excuse the vile wallpaper, the ex wife chose it!)









The above is my own 'experience', I'm still learning as I go (I think we do with most things in life). All in all he's a happy boy, eating and doing what he should be doing. Humidity is vital for them, I do mist my viv regularly as well has having the large pool, plants and soil/moss in there. 

My plan is to build a new viv for him, essentially the same dimensions (maybe larger) but an arboreal as he spends most of his time in the branches or in his pool.


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## mrdragon27 (May 3, 2018)

Dungbug said:


> The 'pool' is a poly fish tank (the sort you see at places selling Goldfish, Koi's etc, similar to this;
> https://www.portonaquapet.co.uk/sho...9JmAfwFz4_9v2eN2nHgVDz0Go45ERN-caAkfqEALw_wcB
> 
> The bonus of this type is that it's nice and rigid, you can get thinner/cheaper ones but they do deteriorate over time (as did the one he can with which led to a flooded viv!).
> ...


Oh wow that is exactly what I'm looking for thank you. do you fill the tub half way? Oh yeah you couldn't be more right if I bought a cheaper one and my viv leaked my mrs would kick me out for weeks haha. You're viv looks really nice I like all the wood and plants you have did you get all the wood/branches from outside, or are they store bought? Your CWD looks really chilled and happy there that's nice to see, glad he likes his home .

Unfortunately I can't have an external filter mainly because of where my viv will be in my house plus my mrs won't want it being outside the viv she won't stop thinking it'll leak or something plus I don't have a cabinet either so I'll have to use a submersible one, plus for now he will only be a baby so doesn't need as deep of water yet.

I was supposed to ask do you use any water treatment like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zoo-Med-...hash=item1eb4e1bac3:m:mdHGA03Xu3ntJsxaDPQoOQA as I know for reptiles the chemicals in tap water isn't very good for them I used to use this for my bearded dragon as he used to drink his water. 

Ah ok then when the time comes I will look into that kind of soil is there a specific brand you use?

I have heard it can be tricky keeping the viv at high humidity especially come summer time, I was looking into getting a fogger as that is supposed to help a lot only problem is again I can't put it outside the viv :bash: so I'll have to stick to misting and keep the water topped up and having good live plants to keep the humidity up.

I'm surprised you don't use anything to keep the water warm, I had the impression it had to be warm ish for them so that they don't get too cold in the water (just learnt something) I'm guessing it'll get warm and stay warm from the temp of the viv anyway. I guess water in their real life environment wouldn't be all that warm anyway maybe round the 20-25C mark.


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