# dum question



## python66 (Apr 12, 2007)

this is most likely a dum think to ask but how do you get diffrent colours(morphs) if there are only 2 snkaes that are both of the same colour (brown) how the hell do people get albinos and red ext if this is silly sorry in advance mick


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## Herpo14292 (Dec 30, 2009)

The originals were created by pure luck. 
After that they were proven out to be recessive or dominant. Do some research into any genetics and you will begin to understand.

For example in leos:
Mack snow - Dominant
Enigma - dominant

Any albino strain - recessive,
Patternless - recessive
eclipse recessive

So to create a mack snow enigma, you will only have to breed mack snow x enigma and the chance will be there.

To create a mack tremper, you would breed a mack snow to a tremper, then the hatchlings will be
50% NORMAL 100% het tremper
50% mack 100% tremper

Breed the two mack snows together to have a chance to create mack tremper and super snow trempers.


Other then that, dominant genes can't have a just heterozygous form, they are either homozygous..or not.. 
So unless your two normal looking animals have hets, your only going to create normals, UNLESS, you are extreeeemeeely lucky and are some sort of god, you might produce a genetic anomilie (I think thats how you spell it) which the odds are greatly against you.


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## python66 (Apr 12, 2007)

yes thanks for that info its makes more sense but still confussing 
so if i breed a normal to a 100% het albino what wud the out come be?
also what does poss het mean? does it mean it was bred out of a normal and albino but is normal looking its self and the only way to find out is to breed back to a normal? thanks mick


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## Herpo14292 (Dec 30, 2009)

python66 said:


> yes thanks for that info its makes more sense but still confussing
> so if i breed a normal to a 100% het albino what wud the out come be?
> also what does poss het mean? does it mean it was bred out of a normal and albino but is normal looking its self and the only way to find out is to breed back to a normal? thanks mick


 
A normal 100% het albino to a normal would create 
Normals 50% het for albino

However breed 2 normals 100% het albino together you would have a 
25% normal
50% normal het albino
25% Albino

a poss het would be created out of a normal x het breeding, you would have a 50% chance that the snake/gecko would carry the gene, the only way to find out would be to prove it out with either a homozygous albino (visually confirmed) or a confirmed het.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Herpo14292 said:


> Other then that, dominant genes can't have a just heterozygous form, they are either homozygous..or not..


Not true. 
Homozygous means only "the two halves of the gene pair are the same". An animal who has one copy of a dominant mutant trait and one copy of "normal non-mutant" is heterozygous for the dominant trait - but "heterozygous" does not mean "invisible".

For example, a Normal het Albino animal is heterozygous for albino (which is recessive) AND it is also heterozygous for the dominant "Normal not-albino".

Python66: Nearly all of the colour morphs in reptiles come from wild-caught animals who have a colour mutation. Sort of like a typo in the gene sequence. This sort of typo can happen in captivity, but it's very unlikely.


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## Herpo14292 (Dec 30, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Not true.
> Homozygous means only "the two halves of the gene pair are the same". An animal who has one copy of a dominant mutant trait and one copy of "normal non-mutant" is heterozygous for the dominant trait - but "heterozygous" does not mean "invisible".
> 
> For example, a Normal het Albino animal is heterozygous for albino (which is recessive) AND it is also heterozygous for the dominant "Normal not-albino".
> ...


 
I don't think you got how I meant that to come across, I meant it as though, with a pairing say mack snow - normal, the normal couldn't carry just 1 copy of the mack snow because it can't, with dominant morphs you have to have 2 copys, or nothing at all, so you couldn't have a normal het mack snow.

Am I making more sence now?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Herpo14292 said:


> I don't think you got how I meant that to come across, I meant it as though, with a pairing say mack snow - normal, the normal couldn't carry just 1 copy of the mack snow because it can't, with dominant morphs you have to have 2 copys to let them show, so you couldn't have a normal het mack snow.
> 
> Am I making more sence now?


You *don't* have to have two copies of a dominant gene for it to show, though.

The reason it's called "dominant" is because one copy shows, and shows in the same strength as two copies.

So, for example:

Dominant normal *AA *X recessive albino *aa *=

Normal het albino *Aa *babies. They are displaying the dominant normal trait, although they only have one copy of Normal.

The reason you can't have a normal-looking hatchling het for Mack Snow is because Mack Snow is codominant (not recessive) and therefore if the animal carries the trait, they show it. Codominance means there's three different visual appearances:

Noncarrier *S/S *(normal)
Heterozygous *S/S** (Mack Snow)
Homozygous *S*/S* *(Super Snow)

That said, most heterozygous Mack Snows DO look "normal" at adulthood nowadays, so saying you can't have a Normal het Mack Snow is less accurate than I'd like too!


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Herpo14292 said:


> For example in leos:
> Mack snow - Dominant
> Enigma - dominant


Mack snow is codominant, well incomplete dominant I believe.


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## Herpo14292 (Dec 30, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Mack snow is codominant, well incomplete dominant I believe.


Hm, yeah I suppose I would have to agree with incomplete dominant.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Herpo14292 said:


> However breed 2 normals 100% het albino together you would have a
> 25% normal
> 50% normal het albino
> 25% Albino
> ...


Poss hets are also created from recessive het x recessive het. As you put above

Normal het albino x Normal het albino will give:
25% Albino
50% Normal het albino
25% Normal

As both the normal and het albinos will look the same, you could say the result is.....

25% Albino
75% Normal poss (66%) het albino.

As there is a 66% chance for the normal looking offspring to carry the recessive gene.


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## python66 (Apr 12, 2007)

WOW i must be slow:mf_dribble:, straight over my head, agen so my sankes for exeaple..
normal male hogg nose X normal female 100% het albino = normal looking 50%het albino.

to get albino in the flesh= male normal looking 50%het albino(0ff spring) back to the female 100% het albino (mother)???is this correct mick


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

python66 said:


> WOW i must be slow:mf_dribble:, straight over my head, agen so my sankes for exeaple..
> normal male hogg nose X normal female 100% het albino = normal looking 50%het albino.
> 
> to get albino in the flesh= male normal looking 50%het albino(0ff spring) back to the female 100% het albino (mother)???is this correct mick


The normal 50% het albino means there is a 50% chance that it carries the albino gene. Only test breeding would tell you whether it is carrying the gene or not (unless hoggies have any recessive markers? I'm on unknown territory with them).


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

MrMike said:


> Mack snow is codominant, well incomplete dominant I believe.


You can use either one. At the level we are working on, the two terms mean the same thing.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

python66 said:


> to get albino in the flesh= male normal looking 50%het albino(0ff spring) back to the female 100% het albino (mother)???is this correct mick


A 50% probability het albino has a 50% probability of being a het albino and a 50% probability of being a normal.

You could test the 50% probability het albino by mating him to either a het albino or an albino. If you get at least one albino baby, then the male has to be a het albino. If you get a couple of clutches of eggs and none of the babies is albino, you can be pretty sure that the male is a normal.

By the way, 100% probability het albino is just a long way of saying het albino.


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