# Dubia Roach Experimentation



## Pyrite (Oct 13, 2012)

So over the course of a year I need to conduct an experiment/survey or case study related to the agricultural sector as a part of my studies in Agribusiness. 

I have decided to hold an experiment on Dubia roaches to find out at what temperatures they best breed at (harvest intake) and what type of food they would prefer in order to produce a nutrient rich reptile food.

This experiment was inspired from a discussion on these forums that was held over the course of last summer on whether or not high protein/cereals (crushed dog food/oats..etc) were necessary to be fed to roaches or if vegetation and vegetable-based-foods (chicken mash) was enough in order to meet up with the protein requirements of these insects.

Some have argued that high protein was unecessary if not dangerous as this produced a high amount of uric acids in dubias which posed as a threat to the consumer (reptiles, birds, fish..etc)

Together with my lecturer we have came up with a small plan on how this experiment can be carried out and we have come up with the following diagram;



Each tub is to be full of a ratio of 4:1 (40females - 10 males)
Each tub is filled with the labelled food stuffs


I am concerned and not sure on whether or not this would be accurate or is able enough to produce the results desired. I am looking for any suggestions, advice and ideas on how I can carry this out.

A lot of money is being invested into this project and it essential that it bodes well as my grades depend on this.


----------



## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

The problem is that some of your females and males may be past it.

Buying extra large nymphs, waiting until they're full adults would probably be the most valid way, but you'll be waiting very long


----------



## Pyrite (Oct 13, 2012)

ConnorTrussell said:


> The problem is that some of your females and males may be past it.
> 
> Buying extra large nymphs, waiting until they're full adults would probably be the most valid way, but you'll be waiting very long


Maybe past what? I'm going to be working with a new bloodline and not my own. I personally feed mine strictly on vegetables. No mash, no dog/catfood or cereals.


----------



## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Connor is right, you need all the adults to be of a similar age to give accurate results. Either that or find a way to make sure those in each group are randomly choosen. You might unconsiously pick out larger ones as you pick out the first 40 for example. These could be older ones, or ones that just grew faster.


----------



## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

layers mash contains fish protein doesnt it?


----------



## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Not as far as I know. Ceratinly not in Portugal. Animal protein was banned I believe in agricultural feedstuffs after the whole mad cow episode.


----------



## Punchfish (Jun 13, 2008)

"what type of food they would prefer in order to produce a nutrient rich reptile food"

How will you be measuring this? Will you just go on number of babies, weight increase, quantity of food eaten, or will you calculate their nutritional value afterwards? Without calculating their nutritional value you will only be checking what food they prefer and what food makes them grow fastest.

Will water also be provided? I know they will get enough water from the vegetation. The problem would be if they may prefer the cat/dog food for eating they will also consume the vegetation to meet their water requirements.


----------



## Pyrite (Oct 13, 2012)

Punchfish said:


> "what type of food they would prefer in order to produce a nutrient rich reptile food"
> 
> How will you be measuring this? Will you just go on number of babies, weight increase, quantity of food eaten, or will you calculate their nutritional value afterwards? Without calculating their nutritional value you will only be checking what food they prefer and what food makes them grow fastest.
> 
> Will water also be provided? I know they will get enough water from the vegetation. The problem would be if they may prefer the cat/dog food for eating they will also consume the vegetation to meet their water requirements.


To be honest I really have no idea what I am doing. I started out with a dubia colony about 7months ago and from there it really peaked my interest and after the discussion it motivated me to do a little experiment especially now since I have the chance and it can actually go to some use. This is why I came here for some help and advice on how to make my experiment a bit better.

I don't really know how to calculate nutritional value in cockroaches (if anyone does inbox me with the calculation please) so I guess it's just to find out what food they would prefer. The idea was that I would measure 200g of each food and place them in the tubs for 3 days. Afterwards I take the food out and re-measure.

I would do this for each tub consequentially for 3 months until a pattern begins to emerge (for example chicken mash starts to get eaten faster)

Taking the measurement in weight would also be a good idea but it's going rather difficult to measure each one. Remember I will have 9 tubs, that is a lot of babies.

I forgot to mention that all, that is the dog food and chicken mash, will be soaked in water. This way they will have 3 options for a water source and it will all just depend on which one they would prefer.



Dragonfarm said:


> Connor is right, you need all the adults to be of a similar age to give accurate results. Either that or find a way to make sure those in each group are randomly choosen. You might unconsiously pick out larger ones as you pick out the first 40 for example. These could be older ones, or ones that just grew faster.


I will be getting my colonies from one guy and all at the same time. Hopefully that way it will increase my chances that all the colonies are around the same age. Basically I will be clearing him an entire shipment of roaches just for this experiment.


----------



## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

Hello its best to ask this sort of thing on Allpet Roaches Forum

There are a lot more breeders on there and you will find a lot of people don't feed wet chicken food on there and many don't give too much wet food as its also not good for them. If you were to make any food wet there going to eat it if its the only source of water.
I don't think just dog food would be good on its own and a roach mix would be better.
A roach needs dry food as well as wet. Fruit and veg is a must for any colony and different roaches need different amounts of it to breed well.

One way you can do this as I have in the past is to weigh each colony before and after to see how each one has done. I don't think 3 months is long enough with dubia as there one of the most easily stressed roaches which will not produce if you look in on them too much.

_Shelfordella lateralis _would be a better choice on such a short trial I think. They seem to produce young all the time and don't stress as much.


----------



## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

As mentioned, without nutritional analysis, your experiment wont tell you much about the different variables effects as feeders. At most, it will tell you what food makes them grow quicker. The length of time of your study will also skew your results. Roaches, like many invertebrates, adapt their eating habits to the nutrition they are receiving and needing. So they would likely start out by eating a lot of the dog food due to its high fat/caloric intake, but then slow down on eating that later in the trial/future. And again, they are eating for their own nutrition, which is not necessarily the same thing as them being good feeders for our reptiles.

I would say you would first off need to start with all 1st instar roaches, and no adults whatsoever, so that you could then track their growth until adults. You would also need to include probably two other temperature ranges to get any sort of idea of range, say one at 75 F and one at 95 F. Then you would need to raise a lot more money for the project as nutritional analysis is not cheap. Since you are part of a university, they may have a deal already with a lab to do this, or if you are really lucky they may have their own lab. Just to give you an idea, here a single test runs about $400, and you would need to test multiple roaches from each group to get any kind of baseline. 

If you want to take a look at a similar test to see some parameters, check out this persons thesis work...

http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/3735/Thesis_Hao_7_15_final.pdf?sequence=2


----------



## Punchfish (Jun 13, 2008)

If I was you I would possibly think about forgetting about the nutritional aspect of it all. This would free up resources that as Jarich suggested would allow a larger temperature range and would also save a lot of hassle.

Also if you started off with the smallest size it would give you times that each group reach adulthood at and then how long it takes adults to start breeding. The second benefit would be you afford to buy a much larger number to work with.


----------



## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

I was actually getting at the opposite to be honest mate. What temperatures they breed fastest at is already known really (just have to read that dissertation I linked to or talk to any large scale breeder) The interesting part of the experiment is not how it affects the roaches breeding, but how it affects their nutrition to the reptile. The problem with feeding dog food is that it would very likely negatively affect their nutritional content to reptiles. Whether or not it makes them grow faster is only important to roach sellers, not reptile keepers.


----------



## Pyrite (Oct 13, 2012)

Punchfish I agree and I am going to eliminate the nutritional aspect from the experiment. I did not realize that I need such expensive lab equipment and complex calculation in order to record something like that. 

The idea I have posted was just brainstorming on an experiment which I can present to my lecturer and my assignment. Everyone in my class is doing either a survey or a questionnaire on current environmental/Animal Welfare issues happening right now in my country such as the banning of fur trade and the elimination of Spring Hunting.

The initial thought was to come up with something different that can bring forth some light to the debate on roach diets and breeding techniques. I have grown fond of cockroaches (as strange as that sounds) and it really peaked my interest. It is something I am very interested in and is in relation towards my hobbies and my future job/prospects (farming)

However I do not attend a University and do not have access to such funding for experiments and findings. Everything has to be coughed up from my own pockets thus limiting my access to equipment. I do not have any lecturer/professor who posses the right knowledge on invertebrates so I also have the disadvantage of no help. I am not a business so everything has to be done on a small "backyard" scale. I attend a College which specializes in Arts, Science and Technology and I attend the Agribusiness sector of it.

My idea has changed and I have come up with this;

Start off with 4-6 tubs of 1st instar roaches and feed them different feeding stuffs such as vegetable matter/layer pellets/mash/dog&catfood. Take the initial weight, length and width of the roaches from each tub as well as the weight of the food given.

Every few days I re-weight the food and record it. This will give me a rough idea on which food is preferred. 

Each week I will record the weight, length and width of the roaches and this will give me on how much the roaches are growing.

After some few months I can compare the results and determine which food causes the roaches to grow the fastest. Although this will not determine the nutritional value of the roach it will however give me results, from a business point of view, which feeding stuff will generate and faster growth rate in the roaches.

Again, this is brainstorming. Tell me what you guys think, I am open for suggestions/changes/ideas.

And thank you for the replies


----------

