# Cycling my tank-freshwater help



## Plantyblk (Nov 19, 2012)

Im getting some axolotl soon and I was looking into a fishless water cycle and I thought maybe this is the best place to ask. 

I ordered a kleen off that is a ammonia cleaning solution that has no other chemicals or scents. I also bought a test kit and ph test kit and a bottle of bacteria that takes away nitrites and ammonia.

The only thing I cant get my head around is the steps to carry it out.

Please correct me if I am wrong
1. Remove chlorine
2. Add ammonia to water ( I need to know how much)
3. Add helpful bacteria that breaks down ammonia into nitrites then into nitrates 
then do a 90% water change.


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## Cheyneib Kohni (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm sure you will still need to cycle your filter as yes this stuff may condition your water with bacteria but without any bacteria built up over a couple of weeks in the filter membranes you will not have a cycled tank.

I assume axolotl do make rather a large defecation much like turtles and large fish so you would surely need to make sure your bacteria in your filter is quite built up in order to keep good water quality.


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## Plantyblk (Nov 19, 2012)

how do I cycle a filter?


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Plantyblk said:


> how do I cycle a filter?


Add an ammonia source. 

Measure Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate. 

When Ammonia and Nitrite go to 0, it's cycled. 

But bacteria will not survive without a continued ammonia source... so cannot stay empty. 

Doing a 90% water change will slow the cycle down. 

I am guessing for axoltls you need a big external filter and lots of water changes to counter the nitrates - though I've not kept them my self.


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## Cheyneib Kohni (Feb 25, 2013)

Just keep the filter running for about 2 weeks, add a filter start solution (similar to the stuff you have already) and then just wait. Do no water changes  then the bacteria should multiply in the filter


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## Plantyblk (Nov 19, 2012)

any ideas on how much of the kleen of I need to use?


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

Plantyblk said:


> Im getting some axolotl soon and I was looking into a fishless water cycle and I thought maybe this is the best place to ask.
> 
> I ordered a kleen off that is a ammonia cleaning solution that has no other chemicals or scents. I also bought a test kit and ph test kit and a bottle of bacteria that takes away nitrites and ammonia.
> 
> ...


1. Remove chlorine with 'tapsafe' or similar
2. Add ammonia up to about 4ppm (calculators available online).
3. Add bacteria in a bottle. IMO this is snake oil but since you have it you may as well put it in.
4. Wait a few days and then test for ammonia. If its less than 4ppm top back up to about that level.
5. Rinse and repeat twice a day and watch the ammonia go down faster and faster until you test 0 nitrites/ammonia within 12 hours of adding ammonia. At this point your 'axie wee' is being made safe quickly enough for an axie to stay clean and comfy.
6. Do a massive water change so everything is clean for your new friend.


Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

This whole process takes about 3-6 weeks and it cant be rushed. Its well worth the effort though and if you put your axie in too early or without doing it at all then he/she will be exposed to toxic ammonia and nitrite levels. This can cause chemical burns and make your axie vulnerable to fungal/bacterial infections.


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

Cheyneib Kohni said:


> Just keep the filter running for about 2 weeks, add a filter start solution (similar to the stuff you have already) and then just wait. Do no water changes  then the bacteria should multiply in the filter


Nooooooooo! This wont do anything at all without an ammonia source and two weeks is wildly optimistic unless the filter is pre-seeded


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## Cheyneib Kohni (Feb 25, 2013)

Ony said:


> Nooooooooo! This wont do anything at all without an ammonia source and two weeks is wildly optimistic unless the filter is pre-seeded


I forgot that, most people add a couple of corydoras or like you say pre-seed from another filter.


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

Poor cory cats 

Full reply here:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/fish-keeping/942448-fishless-cycling-dummies.html


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Cheyneib Kohni said:


> I forgot that, most people add a couple of corydoras or like you say pre-seed from another filter.


As with Ony - don't use live fish! Poor fish, no need for it. 

Also it does not take 2 weeks. Or 1 week. Or 4 weeks. Or 32 days. Or 48 hours. 

It takes until Nitrite and Ammonia are 0.


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## Cheyneib Kohni (Feb 25, 2013)

Wouldn't really know then, my tank cycled while having turtles in it before, I then moved them out to a bigger tank.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

What's the deal if I start up a tank from fresh BUT use a ready matured Fluval 2 filter ( from an existing tank ) in it from day one ??

Presumably this should cut down on the waiting time dramatically !?

I'm planning to hopefully do that that tomorrow and have the water tested on Monday or Tuesday ....... or is that being too optimistic ??

Plus I'll add a bucket of mature water from the existing tank ...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> What's the deal if I start up a tank from fresh BUT use a ready matured Fluval 2 filter ( from an existing tank ) in it from day one ??
> 
> Presumably this should cut down on the waiting time dramatically !?
> 
> ...


add a handful of mature substrate also- & use a bottled bacteria culture for a couple of weeks, until the readings are zero.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

So by using an existing mature fluval filter doesn't guarantee ' cycled water ' ???? 
Gutted . 
I presumed I'd found a quick fix as I thought that the reason for cycling was too get a build up of bacteria onto the filter sponges


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> So by using an existing mature fluval filter doesn't guarantee ' cycled water ' ????
> Gutted .
> I presumed I'd found a quick fix as I thought that the reason for cycling was too get a build up of bacteria onto the filter sponges


If you just use the filter it will restart th cycling process - however if you can use a mature filter along with A fair amount of mature water from the other tank, it will massively speed up the process - but you still need to test the water until it is correct,


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> So by using an existing mature fluval filter doesn't guarantee ' cycled water ' ????
> Gutted .
> I presumed I'd found a quick fix as I thought that the reason for cycling was too get a build up of bacteria onto the filter sponges


and the substrate.



sharpstrain said:


> If you just use the filter it will restart th cycling process - however if you can use a mature filter along with A fair amount of mature water from the other tank, it will massively speed up the process - but you still need to test the water until it is correct,


yep! & a handful of mature substrate will help to innoculate the tank bed.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> and the substrate.
> 
> yep! & a handful of mature substrate will help to innoculate the tank bed.


I will be using plenty of the existing black gravel anyways but I'll be using two Fluval internal filters NOT an under- gravel filter so I'm not sure adding the gravel will make any difference to the cycling process ..


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> I will be using plenty of the existing black gravel anyways but I'll be using two Fluval internal filters NOT an under- gravel filter so I'm not sure adding the gravel will make any difference to the cycling process ..


doesn't matter- the gravel bed will still contribute toward the nitrogen cycle by housing the bacteria along with the filter- therefore using mature gravel will help.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> doesn't matter- the gravel bed will still contribute toward the nitrogen cycle by housing the bacteria along with the filter- therefore using mature gravel will help.


Sounds hopeful then


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Any thoughts on getting rid of the chlorine in the new tank ?? 

Isn't just a case of vigorously aerating the water for a short while ?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Separate issue .. Maybe physics based ?
I was considering putting the tank on two pieces of aluminium lay down under both sides ( front to back ) - to spread the load of 64Kg .. Could this cause a problem with pressure in the middle of the tank ?? I could put another small piece right in the centre of the tank to maybe help with that possibility ??


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Zincubus said:


> Any thoughts on getting rid of the chlorine in the new tank ??
> 
> Isn't just a case of vigorously aerating the water for a short while ?


I'm considering getting a small 50g bottle of AquaSafe for £3 off eBay ... Should treat 50L of water hopefully ..


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

So I fill the new tank up. Treat using AquaSafe then add the old filter and some old gravel and a bucket of water out of the existing tank !?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> So I fill the new tank up. Treat using AquaSafe then add the old filter and some old gravel and a bucket of water out of the existing tank !?


wash any new gravel, but not the old stuff- you need that dirty. & get some more dechlorinator for future use.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Zincubus said:


> Separate issue .. Maybe physics based ?
> I was considering putting the tank on two pieces of aluminium lay down under both sides ( front to back ) - to spread the load of 64Kg .. Could this cause a problem with pressure in the middle of the tank ?? I could put another small piece right in the centre of the tank to maybe help with that possibility ??


Any thoughts on this point ?


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