# is this a communal species?



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

*is the Indian Ornamental (Poecilotheria regalis) a communal species?*

_as above i was wondering if the _*Indian* *Ornamental -*_*Poecilotheria regalis* is a fully communal species, or are they one that is ok as long as they have been together from slings, or the same egg sack, and if one is smaller than the others will it be at risk? i have a spare exo-terra tank so thinking of gettin some of this species to put in it, any comments would ge greatly apprechiated even if its just to say i dont think your ready for this species_
_thanks_

_will:2thumb:_


----------



## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> _as above i was wondering if the _*Indian* *Ornamental -*_*Poecilotheria regalis* is a fully communal species, or are they one that is ok as long as they have been together from slings, or the same egg sack, and if one is smaller than the others will it be at risk? i have a spare exo-terra tank so thinking of gettin some of this species to put in it, any comments would ge greatly apprechiated even if its just to say i dont think your ready for this species_
> _thanks_
> 
> _will:2thumb:_


I've had 5 P.Regalis slings together since the BTS ( mid May) and they are doing fine . 

Have a good read of the pokie sticky at the top of this section . If you think you can handle pokies then come back and ask advice about communal set ups . Bare in mind 5 will be more trouble than a single pokie .


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Mutley.100 said:


> I've had 5 P.Regalis slings together since the BTS ( mid May) and they are doing fine .
> 
> Have a good read of the pokie sticky at the top of this section . If you think you can handle pokies then come back and ask advice about communal set ups . Bare in mind 5 will be more trouble than a single pokie .


ok i have said before at sumpoint i have kept a single burst horned baboon Ceratogyrus bechuanicus, for sum time until my mother realised it was quite dangerous to have in the house so it ahd to go, so i apprechiate that they are a species that will need my full attention when doing anything with the tank, as the burst horned baboon did, also i have no problems with the hands off approach that they demand, i will have a read of this sticky you said thanks, and will let you know what i decide, thanks for replying:2thumb:


----------



## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> ok i have said before at sumpoint i have kept a single burst horned baboon Ceratogyrus bechuanicus, for sum time until my mother realised it was quite dangerous to have in the house so it ahd to go, so i apprechiate that they will need my full attention when doing anything with the tank, also i have no problems with the hands off approach that they demand, i will have a read of this sticky you said thanks, and will let you know what i decide, thanks for replying:2thumb:


No problem . A reply doesn't cost much , a little electricity , ware and tare on the keyboard and the time it takes to find the keys . :lol2:


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

and we'll even be nice, and helpful - for no extra charge


----------



## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

garlicpickle said:


> and we'll even be nice, and helpful - for no extra charge


Don't get carried away . You''ll be giving away the kitchen sink next . :lol2:


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Mutley.100 said:


> Don't get carried away . You''ll be giving away the kitchen sink next . :lol2:


I can't - my husband needs it to wash the dishes.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Mutley.100 said:


> No problem . A reply doesn't cost much , a little electricity , ware and tare on the keyboard and the time it takes to find the keys . :lol2:


i no so i really cant thank you enough :lol2:u r a helpful a fun bunch arnt u, i think i would like P. regalis, wot is your oppinion, for a pokie newb


----------



## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> i no so i really cant thank you enough :lol2:u r a helpful a fun bunch arnt u, i think i would like P. regalis, wot is your oppinion, for a pokie newb


There's no real difference between pokie species as far as experience requirements so far as I know . As one of the cheapest , P.regalis is probably the best bet. I'd definitely go for a single pokie rather than a commune to start with . 

I assume you know pokie venom can knock you on your ass for a few weeks if you get a bad reaction to it .


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

I'd also recommend you just got one at first, to see how you get on with it for a while. Then, if you find you like keeping pokies, maybe try 2 or 3 together later on. Communes are fun to observe, but there are associated difficulties.

For instance - rehousing. Pokies move like lightning and also grow very large, and if you've got 5 or 6 running round the bathtub when you're trying to get them into a bigger tank, it's not going to be easy to catch and confine them all.

Also, when they mature, you may need to take some out if there is more than one male - again a risk.

There is a risk of cannibalism too, especially if the conditions are not ideal or there is insufficient food.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Mutley.100 said:


> There's no real difference between pokie species as far as experience requirements so far as I know . As one of the cheapest , P.regalis is probably the best bet. I'd definitely go for a single pokie rather than a commune to start with .
> 
> I assume you know pokie venom can knock you on your ass for a few weeks if you get a bad reaction to it .


yer i know, thats why i said i would be prepared to take a hands off approach lol


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> I'd also recommend you just got one at first, to see how you get on with it for a while. Then, if you find you like keeping pokies, maybe try 2 or 3 together later on. Communes are fun to observe, but there are associated difficulties.
> 
> For instance - rehousing. Pokies move like lightning and also grow very large, and if you've got 5 or 6 running round the bathtub when you're trying to get them into a bigger tank, it's not going to be easy to catch and confine them all.
> 
> ...


 ok i am happy to settle with just having the one if you think that best, but if i ever did decide to get more would i be able to put them with the one i would already have? or is it not a good idea to try and keep more than one in the same tank then?


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Avicularia avicularia is another communal species is it not?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> Avicularia avicularia is another communal species is it not?


NO! It may work for a while as slings but eventually you will end up with one fat one.


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> ok i am happy to settle with just having the one if you think that best, but if i ever did decide to get more would i be able to put them with the one i would already have? or is it not a good idea to try and keep more than one in the same tank then?


I have heard of it being done with some pokies. But in general communal living is more likely to be successful if they have always lived together.


----------



## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

communal (sp) species do better in a small enclosure with 1 hide. This way, they dont develope territories (sp) and fight others that enter it. They are forced to live together and _tolerate_ each other.

apologies for spelling....I am drunk.


----------



## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> wot is your oppinion, for a pokie newb


Do it : victory:


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> I have heard of it being done with some pokies. But in general communal living is more likely to be successful if they have always lived together.


thats wot i thought was just checking, at wot stage during life do they become mature, sub-adult or adult, as i waas thinking i would get 4 females to start of with and then if i decide i would like to try breeding T's(i would start with easier species first) i could get a male or two n start a few more communes, i was thinking of keeping 4(females) in a exo terra tank(taking the fake background out), that way they could stay in there for their entire lives, wot do you think of my plan, and like i said before any oppinion will be greatly apprechiated
thanks

will: victory:


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Jamie said:


> communal (sp) species do better in a small enclosure with 1 hide. This way, they dont develope territories (sp) and fight others that enter it. They are forced to live together and _tolerate_ each other.
> 
> apologies for spelling....I am drunk.


 ok thanks man, i thought yer spellin was fine


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> NO! It may work for a while as slings but eventually you will end up with one fat one.


 ok thanks


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> thats wot i thought was just checking, at wot stage during life do they become mature, sub-adult or adult, as i waas thinking i would get 4 females to start of with and then if i decide i would like to try breeding T's(i would start with easier species first) i could get a male or two n start a few more communes, i was thinking of keeping 4(females) in a exo terra tank(taking the fake background out), that way they could stay in there for their entire lives, wot do you think of my plan, and like i said before any oppinion will be greatly apprechiated
> thanks
> 
> will: victory:


 in order to get sexed females they will already have to be juvie to sub adult - you can't sex them as spiderlings. So you'd be looking at buying an established group off somebody, and they don't come up that often.

regarding breeding T's - pokies are actually among the easier ones (to mate at any rate - getting the female to drop a sac is another matter) because you can often leave the male in with the female for several days and they will cohabit.

A small group would be fine in one of the tall Exo terras once they reached the sub adult stage, before that you would be better keeping them in a smaller container.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> in order to get sexed females they will already have to be juvie to sub adult - you can't sex them as spiderlings. So you'd be looking at buying an established group off somebody, and they don't come up that often.
> 
> regarding breeding T's - pokies are actually among the easier ones (to mate at any rate - getting the female to drop a sac is another matter) because you can often leave the male in with the female for several days and they will cohabit.
> 
> A small group would be fine in one of the tall Exo terras once they reached the sub adult stage, before that you would be better keeping them in a smaller container.


ok kwl thanks for all of that, could i not get a group of sexed female of the internet?, if not its going to be impossible having a communal setup without having spare tanks incase sum need to be seperatedmg:


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

You've got to accept that there might be losses. That's a risk you take by setting up a commune.

the cheapest and probably least risky way to start off is to buy a few spiderlings from the same egg sac.

Have a look here My Poecilotheria communities - Arachnophiles Forum

There's a quite a lot of discussion about it.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> You've got to accept that there might be losses. That's a risk you take by setting up a commune.
> 
> the cheapest and probably least risky way to start off is to buy a few spiderlings from the same egg sac.
> 
> ...


i was mainly asking about communes because i wanted to keep a species that i would have a good chance off seeing often and i thought what better way to do this than to have a tank with a few T's init and i also like the look of them and the fact that they are arborial


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

i think i am going to get P. rufilata:2thumb:


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

I must say I've been tempted by the _P. rufilata_ slings on TSS, _but_, if you read Dan's sticky "A newbie guide to Poecilotheria" ...

From Dan's guide (long quote for context)



Danhalen said:


> Generally, the most suitable pokie for beginners is actually one of the more rare and species in the hobby. This being _P. Metallica_. They were only relatively recently re-discovered and introduced in to the hobby. They are quite hard to locate, and can prove very expensive. Slings can range around the £40-£50 mark, and adult females reaching as much as £300 or more. They are very calm and docile for the most part, and contrary to what some care sheets may say, are require no special additions to their care, but I will comment more on this later. They are very attractive, and reach sizes of about 6 inches or so on average, which makes rehoming or removing for tank maintenance non too difficult. However, they are very photosensitive, and as such, aren't on display all that often. Combined with the large price tag, this can dissuade many potential owners.
> 
> [image goes here]
> 
> _P. Striata_, _P. Ornata_, and P. _Pederseni_ are also good alternatives, if more expensive than P. Regalis. *Personally I would avoid suggesting P. Fasciata, P. Rufilata, and P. Formosa for first time pokie keepers, as they can often prove skittish and defensive (Rufilata can be very quick indeed).* But this can be said for all pokies to an extent. Some are just naturally defensive. For example, I own a large _P. Regalis_ female that will go into a threat posture quite willingly, and has attacked one male and eaten another. But this isn't typical _Regalis_ behaviour. So which ever pokie you go for, be prepared for an exception to the rule.


I hope Dan doesn't mind (great guide btw, very interesting).


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I've never had any issues with P. rufilata, certainly not found them to be defensive. I raised 3 from sling to adult without 1 issue but tbh I've never had any issues from any of my pokies. Sensible precautions, a calm approach and a plan B works every time.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Ah ok then, I was just going by what I'd been told. Course, as Dan mentions, all spiders are different. Anyway, it never hurts to stop and think 

I am very tempted by one... they're pokies, but green and red... and massive!


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

yea, I'm not in agreement with some elements of Dans thread and I mentioned this to him on AP and queried things personally. Its all down to individual experience and obviously we can all have different experiences. 
I'm certainly not in agreement that P. metallica makes the the most suitable start into pokies. The cost, learning curve, rarity or breeding success and the fact these are critically endangered in the wild suggests to me efforts should be made to increase their numbers rather than be sold to people with no experience in pokies.
IMHO regalis is the best starter as its readily available, cheap and arguably the most attractively patterned after P. metallica. Having said that, my first pokies were rufilata


----------



## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> I'm certainly not in agreement that P. metallica makes the the most suitable start into pokies. The cost, learning curve, rarity or breeding success and the fact these are critically endangered in the wild suggests to me efforts should be made to increase their numbers rather than be sold to people with no experience in pokies.


That's the thing though. They are going to people with experience in pokies who either aren't breeding them, or keeping the techniques to themselves. Numbers aren't significantly growing in the hobby, because if you ask me, the wrong people are buying them - breeders and dealers who have the money to do so. In most cases, only to make a profit.

Maybe someone new to pokies, with a bit of research, a willingness to learn, and no agenda other than to breed some gorgeous spiders is exactly what they need right now? Lisa Baines doesn't have a great deal of pokie experience, yet that is exactly what she's trying to do. Should her female have gone to someone with more experience instead?

Learning curve wise, they certainly have a far less steep one than regalis. They are smaller than regalis, they are calmer, far less inclined to throw a threat posture, and they are actually slower too. Quite frankly, they are the pokie equivalent to a bike with stabilisers.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

> they are the pokie equivalent to a bike with stabilisers.


LOL Dan.
Fair points and Lisa is a great example.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Best. Quote. Ever.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

so u all thinking i should start with P. regalis i was thinkin of getting 4 slings growing them on and then adventualy putting them in a exo-terra 12x12x18, will this be ok? how big does P. regalis get?


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

That will be fine for a community of P. regalis. They reach sizes of about 8", although I think I remember hearing someone tell me of 9" beast


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> That will be fine for a community of P. regalis. They reach sizes of about 8", although I think I remember hearing someone tell me of 9" beast


wow thats quite a size what is the smallest affordable species of Poecilotheria? also how many can i keep in that tank?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

They all reach at least 6" as adults. I would think the 30x30x45 Exo would house about 4 quite comfortably. They tend to snuggle up together in one hide.

Regalis spiderlings tend to go for about £5 or £6 each. If you want P. rufilata, I think spidershop has some at the moment for £7 apiece.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> They all reach at least 6" as adults. I would think the 30x30x45 Exo would house about 4 quite comfortably. They tend to snuggle up together in one hide.
> 
> Regalis spiderlings tend to go for about £5 or £6 each. If you want P. rufilata, I think spidershop has some at the moment for £7 apiece.


 kwl thanks for that im not getting them yet just doing some research, ill be getting them once i get my herps shed built, im not allowed T's in the house even though i already have, shusssssssss, thanks again i might set the tank up in preperation of them, any tips?


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

anyone? tips on how to setup a P. regalis community tank?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

There's quite a bit about it in that thread I linked to on Arachnophiles. But basically, you want them to have always lived together, preferably slings from the same egg sac. Provide only one hide and not too much space so they can't form separate territories, and always give them plenty of grub.
And that's about it.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> There's quite a bit about it in that thread I linked to on Arachnophiles. But basically, you want them to have always lived together, preferably slings from the same egg sac. Provide only one hide and not too much space so they can't form separate territories, and always give them plenty of grub.
> And that's about it.


 kwl thats all i wanted just a quick summary thanks i think i will get on with it tomorrow:2thumb: and ill have another read of that thread:2thumb:

thanks
will: victory:


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

i am correct in thinking they are daiurnal?


----------



## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> i am correct in thinking they are daiurnal?


DId you mean "diurnal"? If so, then no. Quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Are any Ts actually diurnal? Pretty sure most if not all are nocturnal in the main.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Danhalen said:


> DId you mean "diurnal"? If so, then no. Quite the opposite in fact.


 yer thats wot i meant, ok thanks, im sure there are some species that are diurnal arnt there?


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Pretty sure most all tarantula species are crepuscular and nocturnal.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

ok thanks


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Pretty sure most all tarantula species are crepuscular and nocturnal.


 this hasnt put me off i still want a few P. regalis:no1: slings


----------



## grumpyoldtrout (May 19, 2008)

Do you source your females from one breeders line, and your males from another? Or is inbreeding not as big a problem with "T"s?

TIA

Neil


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

As males reach maturity before females is unlikely you'll be breeding from the same sac however inbreeding isn't considered a problem, although the debate is alive and kicking.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> As males reach maturity before females is unlikely you'll be breeding from the same sac however inbreeding isn't considered a problem, although the debate is alive and kicking.


so i would have to source my females from a different supplier then, while they were all still slings


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

If you purchase some slings from the same sac the likelihood is the males will mature at _approx_ 14 months but the females will mature at _approx_ 24 months by which time the males might be dead or passed it. So, you'll need to secure males from a different source to mate your females.
Of course you could keep the males separate from the females, feed them less and keep them cooler to try to get mating pairs but there's no guarantee.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> If you purchase some slings from the same sac the likelihood is the males will mature at _approx_ 14 months but the females will mature at _approx_ 24 months by which time the males might be dead or passed it. So, you'll need to secure males from a different source to mate your females.
> Of course you could keep the males separate from the females, feed them less and keep them cooler to try to get mating pairs but there's no guarantee.


 ok thanks for explaining that i think i will try and source my males and females from different suppliers, i set up the tank today, what temp should i have it at?, at the moment its at 76.4f with no heat source near it that is just the room temp of my reptile room, and at night it usually drops down into the lowest part of the 70f's, will this be ok?


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

They're montane and so don't mind cooler temps... try not to let them overheat.

If you check the caresheets sticky (the one at the top) last page, ph0bia put up a _P. rufilata_ caresheet recently :2thumb: which is brilliant.

Have you got any pics of yours?


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> They're montane and so don't mind cooler temps... try not to let them overheat.
> 
> If you check the caresheets sticky (the one at the top) last page, ph0bia put up a _P. rufilata_ caresheet recently :2thumb: which is brilliant.
> 
> Have you got any pics of yours?


kwl thank ill have a read, have i got any pics of wot?


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Sorry, reading back I can't find anything saying you have, I thought you got 2 rufilata slings.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

no sorri for any confusion im after 5 P.regalis slings, i said i have set the tank up today that could of been how i confused you


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Nope, just me being daft.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I have rufilata slings, lots and lots of them


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

I know, hijacking this thread a second: Pete, do you have any pics of your rufilata slings?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

all pokie slings look the same Toby!


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Really? Huh, never mind then *shamed*


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

indeed. tbh I think its a waste of time trying to take pix of slings. 
Plus, when you have 80 living communally and you try to take a pic of 1 you can bet your life there's about 5 doing a runner round the back.
I'm just about to pack some up so I'll try but its very doubtful I'll get a good pic and as I have lots of packing spiders to do it won't be uploaded tonight. Sorry.

They're about 3cm in size.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Nah, if it's gonna be any trouble then don't bother mate. Certainly don't want you loosing any. 

Good luck mate :2thumb:


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Really? Huh, never mind then *shamed*


They're all small, brownish and spindly. :lol2:


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> indeed. tbh I think its a waste of time trying to take pix of slings.
> Plus, when you have 80 living communally and you try to take a pic of 1 you can bet your life there's about 5 doing a runner round the back.
> I'm just about to pack some up so I'll try but its very doubtful I'll get a good pic and as I have lots of packing spiders to do it won't be uploaded tonight. Sorry.
> 
> They're about 3cm in size.


 how much would you sell them for?


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

They're up for sale (in classifieds) for £6, many are moulting at mo, ranging from 3 - 4.5cm
Next postage tomorrow followed by next Monday.
p&p £6 or £2 for 1st class post without any guarantees.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> They're up for sale (in classifieds) for £6, many are moulting at mo, ranging from 3 - 4.5cm
> Next postage tomorrow followed by next Monday.
> p&p £6 or £2 for 1st class post without any guarantees.


im so tempted but a) i dont have the money THIS week and b) im not allowed T's in the house, but i may jus have to get sum off you on one of my days off that way i can get the package myself and no one will ever know:whistling2:

here's some pics of the finished tank, like i said earlier, temps are in the mid 70f's during the day and the very low 70f's at night will this be ok? also what humidity do i need?









and heres one with the flash on the camera 








so what do you think? there is only the one hide in the corner(the big upright peice of cork bark) so hopefully there willl be no squables over territorry, and the tank is a good size i think


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

For a community of slings? If that's what you mean, then it's too big. If I've gotten the wrong end of the stick then don't mind me, I'll just go play in the corner.


----------



## sage999 (Sep 21, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> im so tempted but a) i dont have the money THIS week and b) im not allowed T's in the house, but i may jus have to get sum off you on one of my days off that way i can get the package myself and no one will ever know:whistling2:
> 
> here's some pics of the finished tank, like i said earlier, temps are in the mid 70f's during the day and the very low 70f's at night will this be ok? also what humidity do i need?
> image
> ...


The tanks look good.....Dodgy CD collection though!


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

sage999 said:


> The tanks look good.....Dodgy CD collection though!


 thanks, how so? lol


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

yes i did mean for some slings but if its too big i could always raise them in a tub of sum sort till they are bigenough to go in 

thanks hedgewitch:2thumb:


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Well I was reading Poxicator's (Pete's) thread on arachnophiles about his pokie communities, if yoou give them too much space they make their own territories... then they eat each other, which is totally not what you want.

See what Pete has to say, he's the expert here.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Yea, tank is too big, personally I'd put them in a coffee jar or tub until they get above 2". Apart from that it looks fine.
You certainly want just the one tube but the plants could be an issue. Unless the plants can survive with just minimal light they'll die. You should consider if your plants will need maintenance as you don't want too much bothering around with the enclosure once there's large pokies in there.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Hedgewitch said:


> See what Pete has to say, he's the expert here.


LOL, I certainly don't consider myself an expert but I appreciate the compliment, we're all still learning, even those that have been keeping these for 20+ years.
I do have a number of communities, the rufilata are one of them that have shown the most communal characteristics and the ornata the least, although they do co-habitate.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

I got my first pokie last Friday, as far as I'm concerned you're expert enough


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Well I was reading Poxicator's (Pete's) thread on arachnophiles about his pokie communities, if yoou give them too much space they make their own territories... then they eat each other, which is totally not what you want.
> 
> See what Pete has to say, he's the expert here.


 ok thanks, and no i deffinatly dont want that


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> Yea, tank is too big, personally I'd put them in a coffee jar or tub until they get above 2". Apart from that it looks fine.
> You certainly want just the one tube but the plants could be an issue. Unless the plants can survive with just minimal light they'll die. You should consider if your plants will need maintenance as you don't want too much bothering around with the enclosure once there's large pokies in there.


ok i will keep them in a coffee jar then:2thumb: untill they are bigenough to go in the tank, plants are thriving in minimal light and i was thinking i would do maintenance on a yearly basis when i clean out the tank, does that sound ok?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> ok i will keep them in a coffee jar then:2thumb: untill they are bigenough to go in the tank, plants are thriving in minimal light and i was thinking i would do maintenance on a yearly basis when i clean out the tank, does that sound ok?


you could shove some of those fertiliser sticks down by the roots.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> you could shove some of those fertiliser sticks down by the roots.


 how would that work with a false bottom setup, would it be ok? and would it not do any harm to the T's or their food?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Not sure what you mean by a false bottom setup mate, are the plants in pots or just planted in the substrate?

I've got a couple of ferns in my regalis' Exo terra, they are just planted in the substrate. I pour a bit of water on them once a week and put a fertiliser stick deep in the soil next to their roots. The spider doesn't come into contact with the fertiliser stick and the crickets don't survive in there long enough to eat anything!

the plants are not actually doing very well though.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> Not sure what you mean by a false bottom setup mate, are the plants in pots or just planted in the substrate?
> 
> I've got a couple of ferns in my regalis' Exo terra, they are just planted in the substrate. I pour a bit of water on them once a week and put a fertiliser stick deep in the soil next to their roots. The spider doesn't come into contact with the fertiliser stick and the crickets don't survive in there long enough to eat anything!
> 
> the plants are not actually doing very well though.


well i have gravel with a bit of water in the base of the tank and then peat over the top of the gravel that way i dont have to water the plants they take the water they need as the roots grow down through the gravel to the water, so i just have to top it up every once in a while, so could i use the fertilizer stick? will it compensate for the plant not getting much light?
if not i think im going to have to take the big plant out and replace it with one that doesnt mind a small amount of light, because it has already out grown the tank and i dont want to be doing continuos prunning of it, and one of the leaves has started to die off, so im going to get one that is equally as tall but more bushy so i can keep it in shape, and it will also be slow growing


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> well i have gravel with a bit of water in the base of the tank and then peat over the top of the gravel that way i dont have to water the plants they take the water they need as the roots grow down through the gravel to the water, so i just have to top it up every once in a while, so could i use the fertilizer stick? will it compensate for the plant not getting much light?


don't think any amount of fertilizer will compensate for lack of light. I think that's why my plants aren't doing well in there.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Fertiliser will most definitely not compensate for a lack of light... it'd be like trying to replace oxygen with food, it just wouldn't work.

A planted viv for a T would need very carefully chosen plants that either tolerate or prefer low light levels. You'd ideally want tropical rainforest plants, the lower level ones. Mosses are good, many grow under other plants where light levels are ridiculously low, ferns, well, it depends on the fern. Ivy is good for low light levels, herring-bone plants etc.

Another thing to consider is how fast the plants grow, slow growing plants are idea, nobody wants to try and prune in a tank full of pokies :?


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Fertiliser will most definitely not compensate for a lack of light... it'd be like trying to replace oxygen with food, it just wouldn't work.


ok thanks


Hedgewitch said:


> A planted viv for a T would need very carefully chosen plants that either tolerate or prefer low light levels. You'd ideally want tropical rainforest plants, the lower level ones. Mosses are good, many grow under other plants where light levels are ridiculously low, ferns, well, it depends on the fern. Ivy is good for low light levels, herring-bone plants etc.


yes i have e few other planted tanks including a chameleon tank and sum frog tanks, so i no about picking plants that grow in the shade under others and so on, i just bought this big plant on impulse because i liked the look of it and it was going to go in a different tank that would of got more light so it would of been ok, the other plants are thriving you will be pleased to know, i have pothos in there and a tropical orchid, isnt ivy poisonus?


Hedgewitch said:


> Another thing to consider is how fast the plants grow, slow growing plants are idea, nobody wants to try and prune in a tank full of pokies :?


yer my thoughts exactly thats why im taking the big plant out and replacing it lol


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

^Good to hear 

As for ivy being poisonous... people always seem to say that but here's the deal. Ivy berries are poisonous to humans, they will make you ill. Apparently the sap is irritating to skin, though it's never done me any harm. Birds on the other hand love them. Bees rely on ivy nectar late in the year and slugs find it to be a perfect hiding place. Spiders seem very happy in my garden using it as a home.

Now there's no long term studies on it's effect on arachnids (well, none I've seen) but I'm keeping most of my slings with ivy. A lack of proof to the contrary is not proof, buuut they all seem happy with it. It's only been a few months, so I won't recommend ivy to anyone yet, for all we know 3 months from now all my slings will turn their toes up (I hope not, I see no reason for them to. None the less, it could happen). So lets consider this a test of sorts.

The only way I can see there being a risk would be if a prey item chewed on some ivy and then got eaten. This would also have to involve the prey item being fine with eating ivy and the spider finding it noxious. 

Did any of that make sense?


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

I wouldn't use ivy myself. I don't think it's poisonous on contact, but there's a risk your feeder crickets could eat it, which might then poison the spiders.


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

I may abandon it when my slings move onto prey with functioning mouth parts. Bean weevils are fine.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> ^Good to hear
> 
> As for ivy being poisonous... people always seem to say that but here's the deal. Ivy berries are poisonous to humans, they will make you ill. Apparently the sap is irritating to skin, though it's never done me any harm. Birds on the other hand love them. Bees rely on ivy nectar late in the year and slugs find it to be a perfect hiding place. Spiders seem very happy in my garden using it as a home.
> 
> ...


yes that all made perfect sense thanks:2thumb: but i was just thinking the same thing that garlicpickle just said there is a risk of the prey items eating it and then the T eating the prey item and .. you get the idea, but if you decide to stick with, i hope all goes well and let me know, but personally i think i might try something else 
thanks for the help :2thumb:


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Aye, I also made that point... I'll do some tests at a later date... namely seeing if I can get crickets to eat ivy.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

From what I've read certain plants that might be poisonous to arachnids are fine with feeder insects so its something to bear in mind when planting an enclosure. 
Ivy is a fast growing plant which might require lots of maintenance especially considering it has a tendency to grow quickly towards a source of light.
Pothos and Mother in Laws tongue are supposedly very good plants for low light conditions


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

From what I've read certain plants that might be poisonous to arachnids are fine with feeder insects so its something to bear in mind when planting an enclosure. 
Ivy is a fast growing plant which might require lots of maintenance especially considering it has a tendency to grow quickly towards a source of light.
Pothos and Mother in Laws tongue are supposedly very good plants for low light conditions


----------



## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

I was going to remove it if crickets would eat it at all.

Also, one of the benefits of ivy is that it's slow growing, at least that's what I've seen of it.


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Ivy is considered an invasive pest, its not know to be slow growing at all. In your garden you could cut it down in winter only to see it return in summer.
According to wiki "ivy contains triterpenoid saponins and falcarinol, a polyyne"


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> From what I've read certain plants that might be poisonous to arachnids are fine with feeder insects so its something to bear in mind when planting an enclosure.
> Ivy is a fast growing plant which might require lots of maintenance especially considering it has a tendency to grow quickly towards a source of light.
> Pothos and Mother in Laws tongue are supposedly very good plants for low light conditions


thanks, mother in laws tounge, thats perfect thanks:2thumb: also whats the lowest temp the T's will tolerate as a night time temp?


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

bump!!


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

really depends which species you go for. In general you shouldn't go below 60 and preferably nearing 70 however montane species can stand colder nights eg. P. subfusca


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> really depends which species you go for. In general you shouldn't go below 60 and preferably nearing 70 however montane species can stand colder nights eg. P. subfusca


ok thanks i have narrowed it down to P. regalis/P. rufilata, its ok for it to go above 70f during the day isnt it?


----------



## elliot ness (Oct 5, 2008)

Why don't you just get some fasciatas for a commune,I think Jamie is flogging a commune at the moment and I they think they are a bit bigger than slings.
I have had 6 of these together for a few months without any losses and believe it or not,I bought them off Jamie as well.
Also have another commune of fasciatas too......nice spiders that get to a nice size....and colourful....well the females are anyway :lol2:


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

elliot ness said:


> Why don't you just get some fasciatas for a commune,I think Jamie is flogging a commune at the moment and I they think they are a bit bigger than slings.
> I have had 6 of these together for a few months without any losses and believe it or not,I bought them off Jamie as well.
> Also have another commune of fasciatas too......nice spiders that get to a nice size....and colourful....well the females are anyway :lol2:


 hmmmmmmmmmm sounds gud do they have to be from the same egg sac or anything like that?


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

morelia spilota said:


> ok thanks i have narrowed it down to P. regalis/P. rufilata, its ok for it to go above 70f during the day isnt it?


Yes and tbh that should be your starting figure for daytime temperatures for the rufilata rising to nearly 80 is no prob. A max temp of 85 for the regalis and most other species of tarantula but if things get up to 90 you really need to address the temps. Its far easier to keep temps around late 70s, early 80s as that won't dry the enclosure out too fast.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> Yes and tbh that should be your starting figure for daytime temperatures for the rufilata rising to nearly 80 is no prob. A max temp of 85 for the regalis and most other species of tarantula but if things get up to 90 you really need to address the temps. Its far easier to keep temps around late 70s, early 80s as that won't dry the enclosure out too fast.


ok thanks the temp doesnt get avove early 80's but a night there is possibility of it droping into the late 60's, will this be ok?


----------



## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I've already answered that, infact most of this is answered in Dan's thread about pokies. I suggest you take another read and try to consume the info.


----------



## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> I've already answered that, infact most of this is answered in Dan's thread about pokies. I suggest you take another read and try to consume the info.


 ok sori, will do


----------

