# Leo feeding troubles



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi there
I'm new to the Leopard Gecko scene and to RFUK so I just wanted to say hello to everyone 
I have just got my first female albino who is over a year old and Ive owned her for 2 weeks now, and as I expected I'm already anxious coz I've never owned one before!
I think I'm in need of advice already though please:
Initially she was eating fine and as soon as I put the food in with her she was very interested and would snap it up (prob 1 cricket and a couple of mealworms if I was lucky).
She has had a heat mat from day 1 and a light bulb placed above which was quite a low wattage - 25W/40W for when I was in the house and could monitor the temp to ensure it wouldn't go over 90F, then a 15W left on all day if I was out which would average 80F to 85F at a push. Then I managed to get myself a thermostat so I could keep the temp quite stable for her. I initially set the stat at 90F as the house is quite cool all year round, but since I have set the stat up at this temp she has been showing a lack of interest in food.
I have read that this can be environment related, eg too hot, so I wondered whether the temp gradient was too narrow, so its been too hot for her in the cool side. Her viv is fairly small so I have ordered another thermometer to place in the cool side to check what the temp gradient is like.
I turned the stat down 2 days ago after my research so now its set at 85F and I tried to feed her that night, but she still wasnt interested, so I thought maybe it was a little too early to see results.
But when I fed her last night she took 2 waxworms straight away  but wasnt interested in a black cricket I left in there with her....

I thought Leo keeping was meant to be easy, but somehow I'm already managing to mess it up!
Any ideas and advice would be greatly appreciated, cheers guys. I feel so stupid! :lol2: xx


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

After reading another thread, I'm wondering whether the lack of interest in food may be just because she is settling in?
Could this be right, as I was only told that it would take a few days for Leo's to settle in and eat. So maybe I'm panicking over nothing!


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

you dont really need the light heating as well as the heat mat, the heat mat is more then enough

also, it does seem like she is settling in, so i wouldnt worry too much if her tail is fat


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

It could well be just settling in. As she is an adult, as long as she has a nice plump tail, then she is able to go several weeks without food - but obviously you would like her to be feeding.
You need to make sure the temperatures in the viv are correct. If it is a small viv (should be at least 2 foot though) then personally I would only use a low energy or LED light just for daytime - not for heat, so that you get a good temperature gradient. You need 2 digital thermometers ideally. The most critical is the temp on the FLOOR of the warm side of the viv - should be 88-90F. Forget what it says on the dial of the thermostat and adjust the stat til your digital thermometer says you have the right temperature. 
Keep persevering with a bit of food, they usually love locust but try to leave her alone as much as possible. Make sure she has plenty of hides and leave a bowl of mealworms near to the entrance of her favourite hide. Don't worry if she doesn't eat for another week or so. After that it might be worth getting a faecal check for parasites done (thats if you can get a sample - not easy when they are not eating)
Leo keeping is fairly straightforward once the set up is right, but with your first you are bound to worry.


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks guys.
I'm not sure I would be able to get the temp high enough with just the heat mat. The thermometer reads around 60F without the lamp (my house is pretty cold!) particularly at night. So am I best having the lamp on? I've just bought a red lamp as I don't want it to disturb her and this one is only 15W, but I will have to have it on at night also so she doesnt get too cold, I'll just adjust the stat.
She does have a nice plump tail and does get pretty inquisitive at night (spends alot of her time at the glass peering out at us while we watch tv) so she's moving about at least (and is pretty entertaining).
I just got a delivery of locusts and mealworms and small black crickets yest, to try her on something different. So I will see if she's interested in locusts later 
Is it worth trying her on any fruits/ veggies? Nobody has really told me of anything other than live insects to feed her.
Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated x


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

is that heat mat working? xD 60 is lower then room temp :O 

and leos wont eat fruit/veg as far as i know


----------



## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

What sort of thermometer are you using to measure the temps with? If it is one of those dial ones they are next to useless & are so inaccurate it's unreal :whistling2:. You are better off getting a couple of digital ones that have a probe attached. Sit the probe on the heat mat under the warm end hide (along with the thermostat probe). You need to get the temperature where the Gecko is actually sitting so you know it is correct. My guess is that the temps are all wrong (as you said she stopped as soon as you put the stat on the mat & we all know the dials on them aren't very accurate :gasp:, always use a digital thermometer to set the temp on the stat).


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Leos are insectivores - they will not eat fruit / veg.
A heatmat should easily get the temps you need, even in a cool house. The temperature should be measured on the floor directly above the heatmat. Air temperature is not so important. Where abouts is your thermostat probe? Whereabouts exactly is the heatmat? (eg floor, wall, inside, outside viv) and what substrate are you using? Sorry for all the questions - just need a better idea so we can help.


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah I'm afraid it is one of the dial thermometers, and it takes forever to change! I wasn't really given much help by the "exotic pet shop" whom I thought would have known everything and told me it all when I bought her.....I did explain she was my first.
The first thing I shall do is purchase a couple of digital thermometers, cheers for the tip. I'm guessing my room isn't actually as cold as 60F but it is cold enough to make me almost shiver.
The heat mat is definitely working as I can feel the warmth on the Calci-sand I'm using (and the mat is on the floor inside the viv). My stat probe is at the rear of the viv almost at floor level, but a few cms behind the mat. I was told to just put the thermometer at the back of the viv with the stat probe near it.
Thanks again guys x


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

hmm i'd advise you to change your substrate...calci-sand isnt good for leos...

you should put the probe ontop of the heat mat  and that should be sufficient


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Cheers. What substrate do you recommend? I'd heard mixed reviews about calci-sand but I was just going with what the pet shop said


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

I was using newspaper up till rexently, now im using slate  lino tiles work as well


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

I've heard that coco husk can be used also? I know its not very desert-like but is that safe for Leos?


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

i dont think so...coco husk could cause impaction too..


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok thanks. I shall get the Mr to find me some slate this week then 
Just ordered myself a couple of digital thermometers (well one with 2 probes for 2 different areas) so hoping that will suffice....


----------



## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

If you want to use sand then use either childrens play sand or Exo-Terra do a desert sand. For digital thermometers try ebay, they have some cheap ones on there, i use these ones & they are very good..... New Aquarium LCD Digital Thermometer Fish Tank Water on eBay (end time 22-Mar-10 12:21:50 GMT)


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Personally I would not use any loose substrate for Leos. They tend to lick everything and can accidently eat the substrate when they do this or when they strike at food. This can then cause a blockage - impaction. Calci sand I'm afraid is even worse imo as it encourages the Leo to eat it to get more calcium. Loose substrates are also a pain to clean, can harbour bacteria and moulds (therefore smelling) and expensive to replace. As you can tell - I'm not too keen on them lol.
Suitable substrates include, lino, slate, tiles, paper, reptile carpet. If you really want to use sand then childrens play sand is considered the best.
Did the pet shop sell you any diet supplements at all? I only ask because it doesn't sound as if they were very good with their info.


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks very much  I've heard that play sand is also a cause of impaction tho, is that right? I must admit I do like the look of having sand down tho so if its a possiblity then I'd prob like to keep using it


----------



## Molly&Oscar (Feb 15, 2010)

i agree totally on the substrate question. I had mine on sand and caused me issues.

Im now on black slate tiles which i got for £6.99 to do 2 tanks and they conduct heat amazingly. So easy to clean and im finding much easier to monitor the geckos


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah, the pet shop gave me cricket dust and Nutrobal and told me to have a pot of Nutrobal in the viv at all times. To be honest she just seems to stand in it rather than eat it. And I dip the odd insect in the cricket dust when I'm feeding her, but I don't think shes had much with her lack of eating.
Any ideas where I can get some cheap slate if thats all it cost please? Cheers


----------



## Molly&Oscar (Feb 15, 2010)

melmodz said:


> Yeah, the pet shop gave me cricket dust and Nutrobal and told me to have a pot of Nutrobal in the viv at all times. To be honest she just seems to stand in it rather than eat it. And I dip the odd insect in the cricket dust when I'm feeding her, but I don't think shes had much with her lack of eating.
> Any ideas where I can get some cheap slate if thats all it cost please? Cheers


Focus DIY. £6.99 for 10 x 330mm x 330mm tiles and 9.99 for a 330mm tile cutter.


----------



## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

melmodz said:


> Yeah, the pet shop gave me cricket dust and Nutrobal and told me t*o have a pot of Nutrobal in the viv at all times. * To be honest she just seems to stand in it rather than eat it. And I dip the odd insect in the cricket dust when I'm feeding her, but I don't think shes had much with her lack of eating.


sorry hun but it should be a dish of calcium in the viv at all times *not* nutrabol and general guidelines for the leo's livefood is that the livefood should be dusted with calcium powder during the week and with nutrabol at weekends ... easiest way to dust the livefood is 'shake n bake' .... put the dust in a plastic bag or a lidded tub then add the livefood, close the bag/tub and shake


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

you should have a pot of calcium  and be dusting 2 meals a week with nutrobal


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

It is the calcium that needs to be in a dish in the viv - NOT Nutrobal. Nutrobal should only be used twice a week on livefood as they can overdose on it. Calcium is also used to dust the livefood the other days of the week.
Slate from B&Q etc or builders merchant.
There are some really good care sheets for Leos on the lizard section of the forum


----------



## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Hiya,

sounds like you are asking the right questions on the back of some iffy advice at the shop (a not unusual occurrence by the way ! :devil: )...
As the guys have said, it might be a good idea to replace the calci sand, I too favour ceramic floor tiles or lino for the base of the vivs. I would say a hetmat alone on a thermostat would be fine for heat, you want to aim to cover 1/3rd of the enclosure space with the heated area, to allow your leo to thermoregulate (move to find the correct temps as it feels the need..).
A thermostat set to 32C or thereabouts on the floor level where the leo's belly will be touching is ideal to use with the stat, as already mentioned trust a thermometer rather than the stat dial...

Also, yes some leo's take a while to settle when moved, but as yours is eating of a fashion I'd be more inclined to suggest that it's temp related if she is a bit up and down.

Try looking at some of the excellent caresheets around for the basics and you won't go far wrong (Sleepy D's is a good start ! :whistling2:: victory


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow thankyou for all the replies!
Will Komodo cricket dust suffice to use as the calcium powder I need in the viv? It says its 99% pure calcium carbonate...
I can't believe the info this petshop gave me. Specialists my butt.....
So glad this website exists! Thanks!
I shall try and navigate myself to find the care sheets...Only joined yesterday, and the care sheets on the general web differ so much I don't know what to believe! x


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh and sorry, meant to ask how often you recommend feeding her? Ive read that she should be fed every 2/3 days and should eat about 4-10 items. I don't really get how that works e.g. should she eat all that at once and is her belly big enough for that?
The pet shop was actually gonna let me leave without buying food! When they were totalling everything up I said "she needs to eat, right?" lol


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

i would say that komodo thingy is fine...whats the other 1% though? xD

depends on what you are feeding her, some people have a constant supply of mealworms in a dish with their leos, others just feed every other day


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

The Komodo is fine for the calcium. I agree that a lot of the care sheets are conflicting - problem is ANYONE is able to create one whether they know what they are talking about or not. A lot of them are out of date. And a lot are written by manufacturers who have a vested interest in promoting their products. Advice from a lot of pet shops is also extremely suspect. One of the best care sheets I know is this one - you can't go wrong following SleepyD's advice imo Leopard Gecko Care Sheets


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok, a quick update.
I've altered the heating set-up so now the only thing providing heat is the heat mat, which has the thermostat probe on top of the sand over it. I've ordered a digital thermometer to replace the crummy dial thermometer.
I've replaced the nutrobal in the pot in the viv with the Komodo calcium powder.
I think I'm about there now. Thanks, I was reading that care sheet earlier, it does look good, you're right.
I tried feeding her again tonight, but coz theres been so much going on with the change round I think she is a little more unsettled, plus the fact she has started shedding this evening, so I tried a few times with a mealie, cricket and locust, but when she showed no interest I backed off and thought I'll try again tomorrow.
Thanks again guys. If any of you have any further advice I'm open to all opinions  Thankyou!!


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

They will often go off their food when they are about to shed anyway. Has she got a moist hide to help with the shed?


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Once I realised she was in the shedding process, I did wonder whether it could be related to her being put off her food.
Yeah she has been in her moist hide for a few days, and I mist it daily. Is it ok to do it that often? I have to say I do love the look of her when she comes out and she is full of dew  she's so gorgeous.
Thanks again for all the advice x


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Keep us posted as to how she is doing. Any chance of some pics once she has settled in??


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Of course, yeah as soon as she lets me hold her properly I'll try and get some pics on. So far I've only managed to let her climb out of the viv onto my hands but she's so cheeky....one quick turn of the head and she means she's going in that direction and fast! She was almost in my dressing gown the other morning! Funny thing  So no sooner is she out of the viv she is back in again as I don't trust her not to dash off somewhere lol
I will keep you updated, and no doubt will need more advice soon please. Thanks to you all for everything so far. I thought I'd done quite well with my research before I got her, but everything I read or was told by pet shop seems wrong! I really appreciate the help x


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh and I realise I've not even told you her name....Now, I picked her name before I got her and I actually was hoping to get a male, so her name is Rocco  Yeah, bit weird for a girl, but she suits it


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh I just wanted to check what you guys thought bout me using vinyl floor covering for my viv? I know it wont last as long as slate but I aim to change her viv in the next year or so probably anyway, so I would change to slate then. I was thinking of using a slate-look vinyl.
Any comments on whether this move would be ok as a temporary fitting?
My only worry is it going mouldy underneath, and how will it work with the heat mat as I don't want it to melt!


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi again! Vinyl works great. I use it in most of my vivs now. Get one with a textured surface and not too thick i.e. not a cushioned one. It works fine with a heatmat over it as long as the mat is statted (which I know yours is). Just a heads up - heat it for a couple of days in the open - like on a radiator. That gets rid of any fumes that will be given off initially.


----------



## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi guys
I fed my Leo last night, and I am now getting the impression she doesn't want anything small to eat...... she is also not interested unless the insect is at the end of tweezers and I move it around - bit weird I thought??

Firstly I fed her a locust which she took happily. So I followed this with one if the meatier mealworms. Then a pretty large brown cricket (I thought these would be too big as theyre bout 2.5cm long and pretty chunky). But when I offered her a small black cricket (about 1cm) she was not impressed. And then I tried a small mealie. Still not happy. So I thought, well, since she is eating, I'll give her a waxworm dipped in calci powder. Gone in seconds! So she obviously had room.
I'm just not having luck feeding little black crickets or mealworms - any ideas on how I can make them more appealing in any way please?
Thanx


----------

