# How good is your dogs recall?



## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Well, today my mum told be I'm doing a pretty good job of training Ozzy but there is one thing she wants her to be able to do. She wants as good as perfect recall, which is perfectly normal, however she said in a scenario where she needs to stop dead in her tracks such as 'Small child on park, Ozzy runs, turns out child is scared of dogs' she'd like Ozzy to listen to every command stated. So for instance, if she's running (for whatever reason), she should be able to shout 'FLOOR!' and Ozzy will drop without hesitation, now I love a good challenge and the fact that I now have 11-12 weeks till I start college is a bonus. I know GSDs are intelligent breeds so I'm more doubting myself than her :lol2:

So I'm curious.
Does your dog listen to every word you say? In a scenario like I suggested would your dog respond? If your dog tends to have perfect recall, has anything ever distracted them? Are you more likely to lose control if they see...a blue car?


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## Raynor_NFFC (May 1, 2010)

Our dogs are actually brilliant at this. they do stop dead in there tracks and will take commands at distance such as left, right, back and recall. They are trained as working gundogs so this has to be perfect. They can't go chasing a pheasant for a quarter of a mile! Lol! Weve got to start the training all over again in 6 months because we've just got a new pup!


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## abandonallhope (Jun 19, 2009)

One with 100% perfect recall, one that will come back unless something catches her attention and one that flat out refuses to come back after months of training. :devil:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

LOL
beagle-90% recall... just stubbourn at times
JR-not a chance!
Bull dog- comes back everyimte thus far! LOL:


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

Mine comes back about 99% of the time, but if something like a squirrel distracts him for a few seconds it takes a bit of calling then he comes back.


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

Vocal recall or any command while running not very good :whip:
Recall using whistle 95% the other 5% is if he sees another dog then nothing is stopping him jumping over to it like tigger to say hello :bash:


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

Springer is a part trained gundog so he will spin on a sixpence to come back when called. It's nice to see it happening actually, especially when some people's dogs just plain ignore them!

Labrador....pretty good most of the time, but sometimes something else is much more appealing. Having his favourite toy pretty much means he won't be going further than 3 feet from you unless thrown!


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

My Akita, Mia, has a faily good recall. Not 100% of the time, but most of the time. However, for that reason, I still won't let her off lead, certainly in an area with other dogs, children, etc, etc.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

my big dog will stop in it's tracks when i give the command... she'll stop whatever she's doing when i give the command... spit out her food she's eating even... 

my doberman i had before did the same...
but what do i know?:whistling2:

my fi-fi dog though is too stupid to do much of anything...

she's strictly a lap dog... and that she does well...


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

My Chihuahuas are pretty good and come back when called, although Adam cant resist saying hello to kids and tends to sulk if you make him come away!
My Daschund cross isnt quite as good. Anything involving food, squirrels or interesting smells then she goes abit deaf, although it never takes her longer then 3-4 minutes to come back to you.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Mine are ace unless they spot a pigeon


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## shelby (Oct 11, 2005)

i have a basset cross staff which when we required her had no recall after a couple of mnths dog training she is slowly improving but is still excercised on a long training lead she is starting to respond to the command STOP followed by COME and a food reward and a lot of praise.
its going to take a lot of consistant training but fingers crossed we get their.


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

Mine are yorkies. They are stubborn little buggers! 
One of the girls in particular, Ellie can be terrible. I don't allow her off the lead in the park anymore because if she sees any birds or squirrels she is off like a shot and doesn't give up for hours sometimes! 

The other two are much better and come back more or less as soon as you shout.


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

simba is perfect walks to heel past other dogs OFF lead.comes as soon as you shout heel
zak is perfect but cant go off lead anymore to to health issues
narla is good 98% of the time


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## Sam'n'Droo (May 31, 2008)

My bitch comes back when called, unless she can smell rabbits, the you can see the turmoil as she's thinking 'mum? rabbit? mum? rabbit?', sometimes it takes a second shout.
My boy never wanders too far from me and always comes back when called.
They also both respond to hand signals at a distance (taught by me).
I always feel really proud when me, being a 5'2 female, can control my two Rotties when other people are around and then they comment on how well trained they are. 
I used to have a Collie whom I could get to sit and lie down at the opposite end of a football pitch, all by hand signal..

I think it all depends on the dog. Some are easier to train than others. 

Sam


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

FallenAngel said:


> Mine comes back about 99% of the time, but if something like a squirrel distracts him for a few seconds it takes a bit of calling then he comes back.


I say this, I can't give any examples really where they do not return but I never count on 100% as you can get complacent.

I have soft recalls as in stay together or come this way, which will be their name or baby girl or angel etc and then firm recalls which mean get to this spot now. 

I have to add if training only one command to never be ignored the drop or sit or stay etc is better than recall in my opinion. I am very very secure in the knowledge that should my dogs somehow get into a bad situation they will sit stay on command in situations where coming back could put them at greater risk, for example recrossing a cattle grid or road can be more dangerous than knowing they will wait for me to come get them.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

My GSD came to me at 11 months old with no socialisation, training or discipline whatsoever.

He is now perfect at recall will run instantly to me and spin around to the heel position as fast as he can get there UNLESS ............. he spots another dog and then he's off. He doesn't know how to behave around other dogs, so consequently he's only ever off lead when we're in the middle of a field or a beach, so that I can see any approaching dogs in the distance and call him back onto his leash.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

With my family doberman her whistle recall is always excellent, if she can't hear me as I have forgotten my whistle (and my wolf whistle is pathetic) she will be back within a couple minutes as she does a little tour to check on me every now and again. LOL.

Our GSD's growing up - one was 100% perfect and one was a total bugger.


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## tonydavo (Mar 10, 2008)

Sorry to hi jack your thread but I have enjoyed reading it and as a GSD owner I would really like to hear how other owners have trained their dogs to recall is this is an area we have struggled with were other dogs are concerned.


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## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

my boxer will come back if he doesnt have anything else better to do


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## dopey.rachel (Jun 17, 2008)

my retriever is pretty good most of the time but i never let him off the lead on the grass outside my house as he always heads to cross the road and go to the woods which he loves and I don't trust his recall enough


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

tonydavo said:


> Sorry to hi jack your thread but I have enjoyed reading it and as a GSD owner I would really like to hear how other owners have trained their dogs to recall is this is an area we have struggled with were other dogs are concerned.


The best way will always be start young, ie as soon as you have them, a natural instinct of a puppy is to follow you. Too many people hold them on lead during this stage, then let them off when older when its harder.

However having always rescued this has been a technique I have never been able to use. One technique I have found useful is where at all possible to not wait for a dog to return, call them turn around and walk even run away, if possible disappear behind a tree or something (where you can see them if possible obviously but they can't see you). Knowing that staying with the pack is a limited offer works with most dogs, especially the GSDs, rotties etc...other more independent breeds may not work well with. They will still go to the other dog at first, but soon learn when they see another dog Mum or Dad tend to disappear they quickly get the idea they need to take care of you as you are silly and get lost easy!! Soon they will barely reach the dog before returning straight back, soon after they will not even reach the dog.

Stopping dogs running up to other dogs though I again advocate that teaching a rock solid 100% stay is a great first step, asking for recall is asking them to stop and then return, stay is just asking them to stop. Just keep saying stay until you reach them, praise/give them a treat if they will take one and get them on lead or ask the other owner if they can meet. A far simpler process for the doggy mind and sometimes they get rewarded with a doggy playtime. GSDs will never do well if you get upset or stressed about them running up, they will think it is the other dog causing the stress rather than them approaching the other dog. This will just make them more protective and needing to check out the other dog even more, possibly even snappy, the opposite of the desired outcome.


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## Lenor (Jul 24, 2009)

Willow, our golden retriever is excellent, but I thinks she's a naturally obedient dog, she's never been much trouble. She will always come back when called, if she's feeling a bit lazy she may occasionally just stop and look at you can she if she can wait for you to catch up or if she actually has to turn and walk back, but she'll never ignore you. We've stopped her chasing squirrels and she now shows no interest in them whatsoever, we've taught her to stand still if she sees a bike, no because she chases them but just because she has no sense when it comes to bikes and will happily meander in and out of their path and annoy the cyclists!
The biggest challenge to her recall is thunder or fireworks - then she'll stop and wait for you if you shout at her but she gets so scared she really having to fight her urge to run for the hills!


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Labradors all have excellent recall but there working Labs so have to Senna and Locke I think are good

bad video but was taking a while back when I was teaching senna and locke to come to the whistle and not the command. you can just hear it at the start if the video, sorry about quality it was recorded on my mobile

YouTube - ‪practicing the command "come"‬‏


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

My wee Border is smashing, very obedient and very clever, but you have to make it fun and interesting for him to be with you- being a terrier he does like to make his own fun occasionally.....


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

I don't let me 2 off lead ever so couldn't answer


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Tds79 said:


> I don't let me 2 off lead ever so couldn't answer


Neither do we as soon as we learned the Tibetan has selective deafness :lol2: She will stay on the long line until her recall improves!


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Neither do we as soon as we learned the Tibetan has selective deafness :lol2: She will stay on the long line until her recall improves!


I just don't like to risk anything, my 2 are walked on long lines, its not them I don't trust its other owners. 

Hope the training is still going well and your feeling better


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

I used to have 4 dogs 3 being Border collies and WSD's the last was ZA who was a GSD x BSD and all would stop and drop to the floor on command as walking 4 at once was never easy with one being deaf.

Mine were all obedience and agility dogs and one show, but even when well trained they can make a slip up so the floor command works a treat.

Shame all have passed away now


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

My mum's boxer is horrendous, she's about 3 now and just keeps on running! Sometimes she does stop and turn to look at you for about 5 seconds, and then just legs it again. If she's going for something ie going to go and see another dog/seen a person walking (or canoeing as I witnessed the other day, wtf?!) or seen something else of general interest, then she will just RUN. She actually almost jumped on the guy in the canoe the other day, I was genuinely expecting her to do it. She also doesn't sit unless you have a treat in your hand, and asking her to lie down would be like trying to get blood from a stone.
I have no idea why my mum doesn't take her to obedience training, she seems to think she's well behaved enough, clearly my mum is turning a very blind eye...


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## Emsylove (Mar 16, 2009)

my 1yr old boxer dog is pretty good but he will only come part way and stand their just to make sure i am not putting him on the lead. however he will never go out of eyes view and alway makes sure he can see me wich i think is rather good for a one year old!
if you bring a toy and some treats out with you and dont always put them on the lead when you call them then they should come straight back AS LONG AS THEIR ISNT SOME THING MORE INTERESTING.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

it's just a joy to walk and work with a nice, well trained, bigger dog...

it all comes together when you do it right and have the right dog...

otherwise,... i hate a knuckle-headed dog...

hard-headed dogs are great to work with if you can... a challenge...

smart dogs are too easy sometimes... they train themselves... pick up on the vibes...


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks guys, some interesting reads there : victory:

Ozzy so far has picked up nearly everything I've taught her, however we're now getting to the stage of 'I know you want me to, but why should I?' 

I'm persevering though, and she's slowly working out which commands can not be ignored under any circumstances, for instance 'come' and 'here' are two different commands, 'come' is don't rush but I want you, 'here' is there'll be issues if you don't move now, which with the spate of aggressive dogs recently is pretty useful.

Like some have said, I more want her to listen from a distance, than come running back to me, such as if she's just ran across a road I want her to sit and wait for me rather than run back.

The only problem we're having is chasing bikes, she's obsessed :whip:


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## BlueRoses (Jun 21, 2007)

What an interesting thread. Well I get my first dog in many a long year, next Thursday. He is a C.K.C.Spaniel, just an 8 week old puppy. I am going to be endeavouring to train him as well as I possibly can in all aspects, but stay, drop and recall seeming the most challenging but important. So at the moment I cannot comment on the OP question, but maybe in the months to come lol. :lol2:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

The Pom is fine, she will come back straight away and never approaches other dogs/people she doesnt know.

Lab x Collie will also come when called, but he does like to have a good run. Also not bothered with other people or dogs.

Staffie X boy has the most perfect recall, but due to his medical problems has to be muzzled and can only come off lead when no other dogs are around.

Staffie X girl, seriously high prey drive so walked on longline, unless we go to a beach. But she is a plodder when out anyway, unless she gets the scent of something.

And I have no idea about my new girl yet as she still isnt ready for the big wide world, so only going out into the garden atm, but she is always with me or keeping a close eye on me. She will prob be kept on a longline for quite a while when we do get out incase something spooks her.


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

my dog will come most the time, but if he sees another dog/person theres no chance... and for that reason he gets to run around but on at 10 metre lead. that way there is no chance of him coming to any harm!


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## tonydavo (Mar 10, 2008)

Kare said:


> The best way will always be start young, ie as soon as you have them, a natural instinct of a puppy is to follow you. Too many people hold them on lead during this stage, then let them off when older when its harder.
> 
> However having always rescued this has been a technique I have never been able to use. One technique I have found useful is where at all possible to not wait for a dog to return, call them turn around and walk even run away, if possible disappear behind a tree or something (where you can see them if possible obviously but they can't see you). Knowing that staying with the pack is a limited offer works with most dogs, especially the GSDs, rotties etc...other more independent breeds may not work well with. They will still go to the other dog at first, but soon learn when they see another dog Mum or Dad tend to disappear they quickly get the idea they need to take care of you as you are silly and get lost easy!! Soon they will barely reach the dog before returning straight back, soon after they will not even reach the dog.
> 
> Stopping dogs running up to other dogs though I again advocate that teaching a rock solid 100% stay is a great first step, asking for recall is asking them to stop and then return, stay is just asking them to stop. Just keep saying stay until you reach them, praise/give them a treat if they will take one and get them on lead or ask the other owner if they can meet. A far simpler process for the doggy mind and sometimes they get rewarded with a doggy playtime. GSDs will never do well if you get upset or stressed about them running up, they will think it is the other dog causing the stress rather than them approaching the other dog. This will just make them more protective and needing to check out the other dog even more, possibly even snappy, the opposite of the desired outcome.


Thanx for yor input, plenty for us to get on with.
Lets keep the thread going with other types of dog training and include good youtube type links.

Tony


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

:lol2: I thought yesterday evening that Jazzy had been so good on the long-line recently that I (foolishly) thought I'd give her a trial run off-lead. Wow. 
The instant the clip came off she bolted for a black bag and started chewing on it - she knew damn well she was off lead and got her cheeky head on, running off whenever I got close. And then - dear God! - another dog showed up! :gasp: She was off like a shot, running up to them and jumping about, wanting to play... Didn't take me long to catch her back up but it was a very stressful few minutes. Lesson learned - she's staying on the long-line for a little while longer! :lol2: My mistake for thinking she was ready too soon!


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

Ophexis said:


> :lol2: I thought yesterday evening that Jazzy had been so good on the long-line recently that I (foolishly) thought I'd give her a trial run off-lead. Wow.
> The instant the clip came off she bolted for a black bag and started chewing on it - she knew damn well she was off lead and got her cheeky head on, running off whenever I got close. And then - dear God! - another dog showed up! :gasp: She was off like a shot, running up to them and jumping about, wanting to play... Didn't take me long to catch her back up but it was a very stressful few minutes. Lesson learned - she's staying on the long-line for a little while longer! :lol2: My mistake for thinking she was ready too soon!


:lol2: chase is the same, he is good as gold on the long line... i have let him off a couple times... and both times he just stopped being good straight away >< sometimes i wish dogs were silly  i hope u and jazzy get there soon!


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Jacs said:


> :lol2: chase is the same, he is good as gold on the long line... i have let him off a couple times... and both times he just stopped being good straight away >< sometimes i wish dogs were silly  i hope u and jazzy get there soon!


They just know, don't they! We've sometimes left the long-line on Jazz and just let it trail behind her, we wouldn't be holding it or anything and she's great, which was why I assumed the behaviour would carry over into totally off-lead! Clearly, I was wrong :blush: Perhaps they _like_ it on the long-line! :lol2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> They just know, don't they! We've sometimes left the long-line on Jazz and just let it trail behind her, we wouldn't be holding it or anything and she's great, which was why I assumed the behaviour would carry over into totally off-lead! Clearly, I was wrong :blush: Perhaps they _like_ it on the long-line! :lol2:


:lol2:
Well at least you caught up with her!
I remember the first time we let Ozzy off lead, we'd had a month of letting her lead trail round after her, she trotted after us, obeyed every command etc.
I then convinced my mum the time was right to give her a shot at 3 and a half months. So unclipped the lead and there was just a blur of white fuzz as she ran.
My mum didn't speak to me all the way home :blush: After a few more weeks of practise, she's nailed it. Well 80% of the time anyway :lol2:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> :lol2:
> Well at least you caught up with her!
> I remember the first time we let Ozzy off lead, we'd had a month of letting her lead trail round after her, she trotted after us, obeyed every command etc.
> I then convinced my mum the time was right to give her a shot at 3 and a half months. So unclipped the lead and there was just a blur of white fuzz as she ran.
> My mum didn't speak to me all the way home :blush: After a few more weeks of practise, she's nailed it. Well 80% of the time anyway :lol2:


:lol2: It does sink in faster with working/larger breeds on the whole. Our springer's recall wasn't the best for a good 6 months or so, he regularly pootled off after the smell of a rabbit... but as Kare has previously mentioned, we just hid from him, or started paying a ridiculous amount of attention to a blade of grass at our feet saying "Ooooh, Toby, what's this?! It's so exciting! Would you like to come and see!"... he came back pretty quickly then! : victory: Eventually he learned that he either comes back or at least stays nearby, or he spent all his fun-time looking for us!
It's great that Ozzy's coming along, I'm sure you'll get to 100% soon enough! :2thumb:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

haha, my dog shall forever be on a long line now. We rescued him, a few months back, his recall on a long lead is ok, he ignores other dogs on lead at the command 'leave' fine. He usually just plods along, he is 10... Tried him off-lead, Chocolate Lab enters feild (we are the other side of the feild, I can barley see them) Moss, is off.... faster than I could ever imagine he could run, ran straight across the entire length of feild and followed them into the next feild, to hump the (other male) chocolate lab. So embarrassing :blush: Never going off lead again!!!


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

em_40 said:


> haha, my dog shall forever be on a long line now. We rescued him, a few months back, his recall on a long lead is ok, he ignores other dogs on lead at the command 'leave' fine. He usually just plods along, he is 10... Tried him off-lead, Chocolate Lab enters feild (we are the other side of the feild, I can barley see them) Moss, is off.... faster than I could ever imagine he could run, ran straight across the entire length of feild and followed them into the next feild, to hump the (other male) chocolate lab. So embarrassing :blush: Never going off lead again!!!


:lol2::lol2: Sounds like a total red-face moment!
I don't have a problem with keeping a dog on a long-line if their recall remains questionable. If it keeps them safe, guarantees they'll come back and they don't seem fussed to be on it, then there's no issue! : victory: After seeing what I did yesterday from Jazz, I don't want to take chances with her or others' safety. Also, we are pretty sure she's going to be one of those dogs who would play with traffic given half the chance :whistling2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

> :lol2: It does sink in faster with working/larger breeds on the whole. Our springer's recall wasn't the best for a good 6 months or so, he regularly pootled off after the smell of a rabbit..


My mum use to have a springer when she was a kid, thats what she wanted when we were looking for a dog but somehow ended up with a GSD :lol2:
She said he was a right character, he used to steal a multipack of crisps, rip them open and lick them clean, yet always left the salt and vinegar untouched, because he hated salt and vinegar!
He had great recall, would never leave their side. Though it was months of loosing him due to an awesome smell before hand :lol2:



> we just hid from him, or started paying a ridiculous amount of attention to a blade of grass at our feet saying "Ooooh, Toby, what's this?! It's so exciting! Would you like to come and see!"... he came back pretty quickly then! : victory: Eventually he learned that he either comes back or at least stays nearby, or he spent all his fun-time looking for us!


I used the hiding trick with Oz, she'd chase her ball and keep going then had to come back because I'd managed to get lost behind a wall :whistling2: 
She got so sick of me not being able to stay were she left me that she stays pretty close now. I don't expect her to stay next to me, but she rarely goes more than 10-15ft away without coming to check I know where I am :lol2:
The only time she goes far is when on the park with the bunch of dogs she plays with, which as long as she's with one of them and within eyesight I don't mind. We still have some mishaps though, and a few seconds of 'Why should I come back?'



> It's great that Ozzy's coming along, I'm sure you'll get to 100% soon enough! :2thumb:


Thank you very much :2thumb:, we'd originally got her because my mum's (now ex) boyfriend had experience with the breed, or so he'd said, a few days later he'd told us most of his GSDs had been rehomed or PTS due to aggression from lack of socialisation and 'negative' training methods :whip:
He then walked out when she was ten weeks for various reasons, we had a few days of 'everything we've read said experienced owners needed, WTF do we do!?!?' 
After debating giving her up or donating her to police, guide dog etc, I swore I'd train her and we decided it can't be THAT difficult :whistling2:
She could test the patience of a saint at times :lol2: The whole reason I made this thread was in the hope that 100% recall and obedience wasn't impossible, which is what my mum wants, its a fair deal really, she pays for dog, I do all training of dog. There has certainly been times when I've been off to get a job so we can swap roles :whip:

Oh I meant to ask, how did Jazz go with the TKP K9 training? They help you with what you needed? : victory:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> My mum use to have a springer when she was a kid, thats what she wanted when we were looking for a dog but somehow ended up with a GSD :lol2:
> She said he was a right character, he used to steal a multipack of crisps, rip them open and lick them clean, yet always left the salt and vinegar untouched, because he hated salt and vinegar!
> He had great recall, would never leave their side. Though it was months of loosing him due to an awesome smell before hand :lol2:
> 
> Oh I meant to ask, how did Jazz go with the TKP K9 training? They help you with what you needed? : victory:


They are real characters, and so people-oriented! They love to please! Toby used to get Christmas presents, he used to get so excited when it came to opening his own, bless him, he ignored the presents and ate the paper! :lol2: His recall was great once the initial few months of "But I like this smell more!" subsided 

We've still got 2 sessions left with TKP K9 out of 5, but we are coming along slowly but surely... We're taking the advice offered (though my parents struggle to implement some of it) and Jazzy is steadily settling. It'll be a long time before we trust her around children again, if at all, but she is beginning to realise she doesn't rule this household! It was quite surprising how even the subtle, little things we've done had made her into such a dominant little bully! My parents have yet to learn that what worked on Toby, a people-oriented cuddle-bum, wasn't going to work with a dog-oriented piranha with fur that is Jazzy :lol2:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

My dog comes back 90% of the time. I'm pretty active in the whole dog training scene and tbh anyone who can say there dog has NEVER not listened to them is lieing all dogs may get distracted once or twice. Yes we can get a brilliant recall and they will come back the large majority of the time with distractions but every now and again they may play up. 

What you're asking for though is definatly doable, look up Ian Dunbar on youtube (Dogstardaily)


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> They are real characters, and so people-oriented! They love to please! Toby used to get Christmas presents, he used to get so excited when it came to opening his own, bless him, he ignored the presents and ate the paper! :lol2: His recall was great once the initial few months of "But I like this smell more!" subsided
> 
> We've still got 2 sessions left with TKP K9 out of 5, but we are coming along slowly but surely... We're taking the advice offered (though my parents struggle to implement some of it) and Jazzy is steadily settling. It'll be a long time before we trust her around children again, if at all, but she is beginning to realise she doesn't rule this household! It was quite surprising how even the subtle, little things we've done had made her into such a dominant little bully! My parents have yet to learn that what worked on Toby, a people-oriented cuddle-bum, wasn't going to work with a dog-oriented piranha with fur that is Jazzy :lol2:


Bless, it's so frustrating when you teach one dog perfectly and the other just won't listen to reason, no matter how much the methods worked with the other dog :whip:
I'm glad she's improving though, Ozzy is teething atm, hell on earth :lol2:
Have you found them pretty good then? My friends been looking for a trainer for his mastiff, dunno if he's close enough or not though :hmm:



TheDogMan said:


> My dog comes back 90% of the time. I'm pretty active in the whole dog training scene and tbh *anyone who can say there dog has NEVER not listened to them is lieing all dogs may get distracted once or twice.* Yes we can get a brilliant recall and they will come back the large majority of the time with distractions but every now and again they may play up.
> 
> What you're asking for though is definatly doable, look up Ian Dunbar on youtube (Dogstardaily)


It's so disheartening, I've had people say, 'well your's must be stupid because mine's never ran off' :whip:
I've heard of Ian Dunbar, I'll have a nosey now, thanks : victory:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> Have you found them pretty good then? My friends been looking for a trainer for his mastiff, dunno if he's close enough or not though :hmm:


Yeah she's been a decent trainer... I'll be honest, she is a _little_ bit strict at times for my liking. If we implemented all of the methods we've been advised, we wouldn't have a pet at the end of it, and obviously I want a pet I can enjoy and be with, rather than something I can take out of a crate as and when I'm ready to work with it. But she is a good trainer, worth some consideration, though I don't know how far she is willing to travel!


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Yeah she's been a decent trainer... I'll be honest, she is a _little_ bit strict at times for my liking. If we implemented all of the methods we've been advised, we wouldn't have a pet at the end of it, and obviously I want a pet I can enjoy and be with, rather than something I can take out of a crate as and when I'm ready to work with it. But she is a good trainer, worth some consideration, though I don't know how far she is willing to travel!


hmm this is the problem he's having, every trainer he has got so far has been it's a dominant dog! or train it to the point of a robot! 
I'll pass on her details anyway, he may like her techniques.
A few books I've read on training techniques, and several are a bit, only interact with the dog when you want something, I suppose people just have very different opinions on training : victory:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

cloggers said:


> hmm this is the problem he's having, every trainer he has got so far has been it's a dominant dog! or train it to the point of a robot!
> I'll pass on her details anyway, he may like her techniques.
> A few books I've read on training techniques, and several are a bit, only interact with the dog when you want something, I suppose people just have very different opinions on training : victory:


Ignore any trainer that talks about dominance/submission theory or ignoring you're dog. Think why you got a dog, to make a bond with it and have what will potentially be the most loyal friend you could ever have. You owe the dog the respect to listen to him in return. That doesn't mean you spoil the dog but it means you give it the respect it deserves. Read Karen Pryor - Don't Shoot The Dog, Watch Ian Dunbar and Zak George on youtube all these trainers are revolutionising dog training for the better and you can learn an awful lot from them.



cloggers said:


> It's so disheartening, I've had people say, 'well your's must be stupid because mine's never ran off' :whip:
> I've heard of Ian Dunbar, I'll have a nosey now, thanks : victory:


They Lieeeeesssss.... :lol2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> Ignore any trainer that talks about dominance/submission theory or ignoring you're dog. Think why you got a dog, to make a bond with it and have what will potentially be the most loyal friend you could ever have. You owe the dog the respect to listen to him in return. That doesn't mean you spoil the dog but it means you give it the respect it deserves. Read Karen Pryor - Don't Shoot The Dog, Watch Ian Dunbar and Zak George on youtube all these trainers are revolutionising dog training for the better and you can learn an awful lot from them.
> 
> 
> They Lieeeeesssss.... :lol2:


The amount of people I've met that have watched two episodes of dog whisperer and tell me how to train my dog :whip: I don't hate the man, and certain aspects of what he says I agree with _to a degree!_, however I don't use his techniques and never would!

Like I said, I've heard about Ian Dunbar and I've just watched a few of his videos. I'll look for Zak George and I'll see if I can get my hands on that book, thanks very much : victory:

And yes, they're all liars!! :lol2:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

cloggers said:


> The amount of people I've met that have watched two episodes of dog whisperer and tell me how to train my dog :whip: I don't hate the man, and certain aspects of what he says I agree with _to a degree!_, however I don't use his techniques and never would!
> 
> Like I said, I've heard about Ian Dunbar and I've just watched a few of his videos. I'll look for Zak George and I'll see if I can get my hands on that book, thanks very much : victory:
> 
> And yes, they're all liars!! :lol2:


Lol yeah, I hate to say it but that used to be me I used to be a right Cesar geek watched like every episode. That got me interested in dog training and then I started researching other dog trainers and my views changed drastically. 

Cesars great at reading body language but unfortunately his techniques are bad imo. The theory behind them is completely wrong. He gets results but it's only due to his consistancy and resources his training is MAINLY negative reinforcement. Having said that I've seen him live and whilst I don't agree with his techniques he is very passionate about dogs I think he's just been misguided and intepreted things wrong. 

Anyways off-topic rant lol, If you have any questions give me a pm or something always happy to talk about dogs : victory:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> Lol yeah, I hate to say it but that used to be me I used to be a right Cesar geek watched like every episode. That got me interested in dog training and then I started researching other dog trainers and my views changed drastically.
> 
> Cesars great at reading body language but unfortunately his techniques are bad imo. The theory behind them is completely wrong. He gets results but it's only due to his consistancy and resources his training is MAINLY negative reinforcement. Having said that I've seen him live and whilst I don't agree with his techniques he is very passionate about dogs I think he's just been misguided and intepreted things wrong.
> 
> Anyways off-topic rant lol, If you have any questions give me a pm or something always happy to talk about dogs : victory:


It's not off topic at all, we're discussing a trainer in a civilised manner, a first for this forum :lol2:
I use to love Cesar, and thats the part I do like, the whole reading the body language is amazing and I love to be able to do it at the level these trainers can. 
I think everyone should form their own opinions on training methods, its not my place to say if I think someone is training their dog wrong. I wouldn't like comments so why should I make them (unless something is seriously wrong, which is when I would make/accept comments)
I don't think you can train a dog 100% positively, if they bite, then they need correcting, but not by bashing them around the nose or screaming at them like you see so many doing.

He clearly has passion for his dogs and his techniques work for him, but like you,after looking into it, I found methods I certainly preferred more.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

cloggers said:


> It's not off topic at all, we're discussing a trainer in a civilised manner, a first for this forum :lol2:
> I use to love Cesar, and thats the part I do like, the whole reading the body language is amazing and I love to be able to do it at the level these trainers can.
> I think everyone should form their own opinions on training methods, its not my place to say if I think someone is training their dog wrong. I wouldn't like comments so why should I make them (unless something is seriously wrong, which is when I would make/accept comments)
> I don't think you can train a dog 100% positively, if they bite, then they need correcting, but not by bashing them around the nose or screaming at them like you see so many doing.
> ...


No you're right, Whilst I think you CAN train a dog 100% positively I don't like the results you get. I'd rather correct when neccesary (not very often) as you say biting should always be corrected unless it's during play on you're terms (even then it's controversial and imo depends on your lifestyle). 

For example I live in a family of mainly men and personally I play fight with my dog I think it's brilliant for bonding. Ofcourse the side-effect of this play is the dog learns to initiate play by play biting which wouldn't be suitable if there were toddlers about. However in my scenario it's fine and if he tries to initiate play in this way and I don't want to play I just say not right now and he listens and understands that. 

It's INCREDIBLE the bond you can get with a dog and most people will never experience it. I spend a lot of time with my dog and I feel so connected with him it's like we can communicate to each other although he obviously doesn't speak english. He seems to understand what I'm saying most of the time. So for example recently I'd never done any training on this I was walking in a field with a slightly trodden down footpath I said to Chester (my dog) "Oi You!Get on the path" in a playful manner I like being cheeky with him :Na_Na_Na_Na: and he just gets on the path and this isn't like a one off he will do this now every time. That's just one simple example this is a common occurance. Once you have bonded with a dog so much they do seem to just understand you and vice versa. It's very hard to put into words but it's truely remarkable...


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> It's not off topic at all, we're discussing a trainer in a civilised manner, a first for this forum :lol2:
> I use to love Cesar, and thats the part I do like, the whole reading the body language is amazing and I love to be able to do it at the level these trainers can.
> I think everyone should form their own opinions on training methods, its not my place to say if I think someone is training their dog wrong. I wouldn't like comments so why should I make them (unless something is seriously wrong, which is when I would make/accept comments)
> I don't think you can train a dog 100% positively, if they bite, then they need correcting, but not by bashing them around the nose or screaming at them like you see so many doing.
> ...


I completely agree, the way he reads body language is great, it's taught me a lot about dog behaviour... but the way he addresses it I don't agree with. I am all for positive reinforcement wherever possible! And treating your dog as a pet, not a robot. I don't expect a 100% effort from Jazzy all the time - I don't care if she comes back to me at a lazy walk and then sits in front of me, next to me, behind me - wherever! The point is she has come back and she needs praising for that! :2thumb: If I wanted to enter her in obedience trials or train her as a working dog then I'd expect a greater effort but for a pet... as long as she listens then who needs a robot? 
There's also the dog trainer we started with when she was a puppy... I don't agree with her either, but mostly because she's utterly insane :lol2:



TheDogMan said:


> It's INCREDIBLE the bond you can get with a dog and most people will never experience it. I spend a lot of time with my dog and I feel so connected with him it's like we can communicate to each other although he obviously doesn't speak english. He seems to understand what I'm saying most of the time. So for example recently I'd never done any training on this I was walking in a field with a slightly trodden down footpath I said to Chester (my dog) "Oi You!Get on the path" in a playful manner I like being cheeky with him :Na_Na_Na_Na: and he just gets on the path and this isn't like a one off he will do this now every time. That's just one simple example this is a common occurance. Once you have bonded with a dog so much they do seem to just understand you and vice versa. It's very hard to put into words but it's truely remarkable...


Agreed, when that kind of bond is developed it becomes very special. Toby knew when I needed him. We have been going through some terrible family difficulties for a good few years, and for some of those years that dog was my shoulder to cry on. There were days we just took ourselves off behind the sofa, I'd have a cry, a cuddle and a moan, and have a nice conversation with him, and it's almost like he listened to me and understood! We shared a real bond, and I miss it everyday. Like your Chester, it was like he could understand English even if something had never been said to him before


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> I completely agree, the way he reads body language is great, it's taught me a lot about dog behaviour... but the way he addresses it I don't agree with. I am all for positive reinforcement wherever possible! And treating your dog as a pet, not a robot. I don't expect a 100% effort from Jazzy all the time - I don't care if she comes back to me at a lazy walk and then sits in front of me, next to me, behind me - wherever! The point is she has come back and she needs praising for that! :2thumb: If I wanted to enter her in obedience trials or train her as a working dog then I'd expect a greater effort but for a pet... as long as she listens then who needs a robot?
> There's also the dog trainer we started with when she was a puppy... I don't agree with her either, but mostly because she's utterly insane :lol2:


Yeah I agree. I watch a lot of youtube videos where people go into this 'robotic' mode and they train the dog in the same way. It's sad, we're living beings not robots and we should express that, we can get much better results.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> Yeah I agree. I watch a lot of youtube videos where people go into this 'robotic' mode and they train the dog in the same way. It's sad, we're living beings not robots and we should express that, we can get much better results.


There's consistency, and then there's the same old, same old day in, day out!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> I was walking in a field with a slightly trodden down footpath I said to Chester (my dog) "Oi You!Get on the path" in a playful manner I like being cheeky with him :Na_Na_Na_Na: and he just gets on the path and this isn't like a one off he will do this now every time. That's just one simple example this is a common occurance. Once you have bonded with a dog so much they do seem to just understand you and vice versa. It's very hard to put into words but it's truely remarkable...


both my partner and I are lucky enough to have jobs where our dogs are rarely left at home alone and am very lucky to have an amazing relationship with my dogs, especially my shepherd (the retriever is more of a Daddys girl). Also worth adding these are both Rescues, the rubbish that you cannot bond with a rescue as well as you can with a puppy is just tosh, I challenge anyone to find a better bond than ours. 

Similar to your story above we were walking a woodland path and the dogs where following a rockery like area down a steep incline. Suddenly my husband yelled out ADDERS!!, just messing around, and they ran back to the path and didnt stray off road again for ages! and then now do this everytime you say Adders!


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> No you're right, Whilst I think you CAN train a dog 100% positively I don't like the results you get. I'd rather correct when neccesary (not very often) as you say biting should always be corrected unless it's during play on you're terms (even then it's controversial and imo depends on your lifestyle).
> 
> For example I live in a family of mainly men and personally I play fight with my dog I think it's brilliant for bonding. Ofcourse the side-effect of this play is the dog learns to initiate play by play biting which wouldn't be suitable if there were toddlers about. However in my scenario it's fine and if he tries to initiate play in this way and I don't want to play I just say not right now and he listens and understands that.
> 
> It's INCREDIBLE the bond you can get with a dog and most people will never experience it. I spend a lot of time with my dog and I feel so connected with him it's like we can communicate to each other although he obviously doesn't speak english. He seems to understand what I'm saying most of the time. So for example recently I'd never done any training on this I was walking in a field with a slightly trodden down footpath I said to Chester (my dog) "Oi You!Get on the path" in a playful manner I like being cheeky with him :Na_Na_Na_Na: and he just gets on the path and this isn't like a one off he will do this now every time. That's just one simple example this is a common occurance. Once you have bonded with a dog so much they do seem to just understand you and vice versa. It's very hard to put into words but it's truely remarkable...


See, the play-biting sort of suits your family, whilst mine, with younger brothers (13 and 10) and frequently visiting cousins (12 and 9) play-biting is certainly not suitable for us. So I substitute with a good old game of tug 'o' war, which I think still cements a good relationship, however I always end the game, if I see she's getting worn out, I stop before she does, which is something I've always done. 
However, like with Chester's rough play, Ozzy will run up to me with her rope toy and start 'playfully' growling at me, yet she can tell the way I look at her if now is a good time to play. Yet she did this to my cousin the other day and he started panicking thinking she was being nasty, he couldn't tell the difference between a nasty growl and a playful growl.

I'm fascinated by the bond I have with Ozzy, as are many other members of my family, I went to bed earlier that usual the other night and my mum found her fast asleep at the bottom of the stairs waiting for me :blush: She knows from the creaks of the floor boards who has just rolled over in bed, if its me she goes ballistic, yet only a bit for my mum and shuns my brothers. I think it's because of the training bond I have with her.



Ophexis said:


> I completely agree, the way he reads body language is great, it's taught me a lot about dog behaviour... but the way he addresses it I don't agree with. I am all for positive reinforcement wherever possible! And treating your dog as a pet, not a robot. I don't expect a 100% effort from Jazzy all the time - I don't care if she comes back to me at a lazy walk and then sits in front of me, next to me, behind me - wherever! The point is she has come back and she needs praising for that! :2thumb: If I wanted to enter her in obedience trials or train her as a working dog then I'd expect a greater effort but for a pet... as long as she listens then who needs a robot?
> There's also the dog trainer we started with when she was a puppy... I don't agree with her either, but mostly because she's utterly insane :lol2:
> 
> 
> ...


See, I have separate commands, like I mentioned earlier. 'Come' means a saunter and loads of praise, whilst 'here' is quick, a hasty well done and swiftly moving on, which is only used in the case of an emergency. don't expect her to be a robot, but now she's getting to the age where people are crossing the road to avoid us, asking her breed and I say and they practically run a mile, so I want certain commands perfected.
I don't expect perfection but I want her to listen to me and do as I say, though I'm more than prepared for a few distractions/hesitations : victory:

Ozzy has just started training/socialising classes, the verdict is still out on the trainer :lol2:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Kare said:


> both my partner and I are lucky enough to have jobs where our dogs are rarely left at home alone and am very lucky to have an amazing relationship with my dogs, especially my shepherd (the retriever is more of a Daddys girl). Also worth adding these are both Rescues, the rubbish that you cannot bond with a rescue as well as you can with a puppy is just tosh, I challenge anyone to find a better bond than ours.
> 
> Similar to your story above we were walking a woodland path and the dogs where following a rockery like area down a steep incline. Suddenly my husband yelled out ADDERS!!, just messing around, and they ran back to the path and didnt stray off road again for ages! and then now do this everytime you say Adders!


Lol crazy story, yeah I agree although I got my lab as a rescue the rescue-dog myth is rubbish. I've fostered and volenteered for rescues before if anything rescues apprieicate your love more as they have never experienced it previously.. (In cases of neglect/abuse etc.)


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

I really need to type faster :blush:



TheDogMan said:


> Yeah I agree. I watch a lot of youtube videos where people go into this 'robotic' mode and they train the dog in the same way. It's sad, we're living beings not robots and we should express that, we can get much better results.





Ophexis said:


> There's consistency, and then there's the same old, same old day in, day out!


This exactly! You have to remain consistent for the dog, I understand that, but make it exciting! 
Ozzy's training sessions are always done in a different order, always with different treats and always end with a different game. But she knows, for example, she has to sit ten times etc before we begin the game. So is eager to please. Recall is her favourite, theres only so many times I can jump up and down like a lunatic in public, but she picks up on my enthusiasm and enjoys it more.



Kare said:


> both my partner and I are lucky enough to have jobs where our dogs are rarely left at home alone and am very lucky to have an amazing relationship with my dogs, especially my shepherd (the retriever is more of a Daddys girl). Also worth adding these are both Rescues, the rubbish that you cannot bond with a rescue as well as you can with a puppy is just tosh, I challenge anyone to find a better bond than ours.
> 
> Similar to your story above we were walking a woodland path and the dogs where following a rockery like area down a steep incline. Suddenly my husband yelled out ADDERS!!, just messing around, and they ran back to the path and didnt stray off road again for ages! and then now do this everytime you say Adders!


Bless, it's amazing the bond you can have and how fast they pick up words.
If our situation is right and Ozzy continues with her very excepting nature of other dogs, we hope to rescue another GSD in a year or two or I may foster, we haven't decided yet, it'll be lovely to give back to the breed that has given me such a fantastic young pup!


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

cloggers said:


> I really need to type faster :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, Whilst there young it's socialise, socialise, socialise.... People with hats, umbrellas... objects like traffic cones, Surfaces like laminate flooring. Put them in every scenario possible and make it a positive experience.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> Yeah, Whilst there young it's socialise, socialise, socialise.... People with hats, umbrellas... objects like traffic cones, Surfaces like laminate flooring. Put them in every scenario possible and make it a positive experience.


I do agree you need to socialise... but it is also important not to _over_-socialise in my opinion. Jazzy has been over-socialised (and had been left too long with her mother) and she has now become _too_ confident in the face of other dogs and strangers. She will go up to anybody for attention, jumping up and mouthing, which is not really acceptable! :gasp: All it'll take is for her to bound up to the wrong dog and try it on... which is why she is going to stay on the long-line until her recall gets back up to speed!


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> Yeah, Whilst there young it's socialise, socialise, socialise.... People with hats, umbrellas... objects like traffic cones, Surfaces like laminate flooring. Put them in every scenario possible and make it a positive experience.


She's being socialised with everything I can humanly think of right now. 
There aren't many people of ethnic miniorities round here and we've had some embarrassing incidents of barking at black people :blush:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> I do agree you need to socialise... but it is also important not to _over_-socialise in my opinion. Jazzy has been over-socialised (and had been left too long with her mother) and she has now become _too_ confident in the face of other dogs and strangers. She will go up to anybody for attention, jumping up and mouthing, which is not really acceptable! :gasp: All it'll take is for her to bound up to the wrong dog and try it on... which is why she is going to stay on the long-line until her recall gets back up to speed!


Ozzy has been socialised to the point of 'everything won't eat me, but not everyone wants to stroke me' which I hope she stays like, because I certainly wouldn't want an adult GSD running towards me begging for attention :gasp:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> Ozzy has been socialised to the point of 'everything won't eat me, but not everyone wants to stroke me' which I hope she stays like, because I certainly wouldn't want an adult GSD running towards me begging for attention :gasp:


Agreed, it's a little less daunting having a little Tibetan terrier no higher than your knee charging at you for a play, but as I've said, you only need to do it to the wrong person/dog once and it could go horribly wrong. It has already gone wrong as she jumped up and mouthed a child a few months back out of play. Nothing came of it but she could well have been euthanised that day, which has made us even more determined to sort her behaviour out. The kid's parents were understanding that she was still a puppy and so may not have understood it was wrong, and we were taking it very seriously indeed so they were again more understanding than if we'd gone "well your kid shouldn't have been running around". 
Jazzy needs to learn that not everyone wants to be her friend! Because her personality is so confident and independent, it's taking a lot of effort to convince her that she needs to stay close to us rather than pootle off by herself. There has been a couple of people tell us that we are clearly not training her properly, or that we have trained her wrong in the first place... but she is a _very_ headstrong little dog, as little dogs can be, and 'normal' training methods haven't seemed to work with her. She doesn't seem to have a definitive 'trigger', as it were, so we have to keep assessing her mood and what rewards will work best for her on one specific day! She's such an enigma :lol2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Agreed, it's a little less daunting having a little Tibetan terrier no higher than your knee charging at you for a play, but as I've said, you only need to do it to the wrong person/dog once and it could go horribly wrong. It has already gone wrong as she jumped up and mouthed a child a few months back out of play. Nothing came of it but she could well have been euthanised that day, which has made us even more determined to sort her behaviour out. The kid's parents were understanding that she was still a puppy and so may not have understood it was wrong, and we were taking it very seriously indeed so they were again more understanding than if we'd gone "well your kid shouldn't have been running around".
> Jazzy needs to learn that not everyone wants to be her friend! Because her personality is so confident and independent, it's taking a lot of effort to convince her that she needs to stay close to us rather than pootle off by herself. There has been a couple of people tell us that we are clearly not training her properly, or that we have trained her wrong in the first place... but she is a _very_ headstrong little dog, as little dogs can be, and 'normal' training methods haven't seemed to work with her. She doesn't seem to have a definitive 'trigger', as it were, so we have to keep assessing her mood and what rewards will work best for her on one specific day! She's such an enigma :lol2:


I'm terrified of letting young children stroke Ozzy, she's a mouther as well and whilst they're stroking my grip is so tight on the lead, and I'm whispering 'good girl, don't bite!' She hasn't yet and she's a natural with kids, so affectionate and gentle, I'm just so cautious, all it takes is parents not to understand and report her  In a way, we're fortunate we have such a submissive dog, she meets new people, ears flat and practically belly crawls, why I honestly couldn't tell you.
She's a pain with training methods as well, at the start of the day I have a treat in one hand and her favourite toy in the other, she then grabs one and thats what we'll use, not always full proof though :roll:

I've been so cautious with avoiding negative experiences as well, I tend to evaluate dogs I see in a distance and watch their behaviour whilst they meet other dogs, then it's either 'go play' or we'll walk the long way, its thankfully worked so far :lol2:


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## hawktrainer (Dec 2, 2010)

can call any my working dogs off a chase/kill with instant respons


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> I do agree you need to socialise... but it is also important not to _over_-socialise in my opinion. Jazzy has been over-socialised (and had been left too long with her mother) and she has now become _too_ confident in the face of other dogs and strangers. She will go up to anybody for attention, jumping up and mouthing, which is not really acceptable! :gasp: All it'll take is for her to bound up to the wrong dog and try it on... which is why she is going to stay on the long-line until her recall gets back up to speed!


I think over-socialisation is the wrong term. Part of socialisation imo is learning how to act in those situations. So your dog hasn't been socialised correctly and as a result of that you're having those issues. 

Well done for persisting though, keep at it with the long-line : victory:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

cloggers said:


> I'm terrified of letting young children stroke Ozzy, she's a mouther as well and whilst they're stroking my grip is so tight on the lead, and I'm whispering 'good girl, don't bite!' She hasn't yet and she's a natural with kids, so affectionate and gentle, I'm just so cautious, all it takes is parents not to understand and report her  In a way, we're fortunate we have such a submissive dog, *she meets new people, ears flat and practically belly crawls, why I honestly couldn't tell you.*
> She's a pain with training methods as well, at the start of the day I have a treat in one hand and her favourite toy in the other, she then grabs one and thats what we'll use, not always full proof though :roll:
> 
> I've been so cautious with avoiding negative experiences as well, I tend to evaluate dogs I see in a distance and watch their behaviour whilst they meet other dogs, then it's either 'go play' or we'll walk the long way, its thankfully worked so far :lol2:


I think a lot of dogs do this as they're growing up it's part of gaining their confidence. Btw remember the more you tighten the grip on the lead the more likely what you don't want to happen, will :whistling2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> I think a lot of dogs do this as they're growing up it's part of gaining their confidence. Btw remember the more you tighten the grip on the lead the more likely what you don't want to happen, will :whistling2:


I know, I know!
It's just so difficult :blush: I'm getting better at it, I'm just so nervy even though I know she wouldn't


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> I know, I know!
> It's just so difficult :blush: I'm getting better at it, I'm just so nervy even though I know she wouldn't


It is difficult, I had a tendency to tighten the lead in Toby's older years when we were approached by other dogs as I knew he was a real grumpy bugger, and would likely snap if not shown proper etiquette from the other dog - but I did find that made the problem worse as he must have thought I was tensing up due to the other dog and he felt he had to protect me!
If you stay loose they tend to think "Hey, this clearly isn't an issue, I'll leave it alone!"


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## jimnamman (Apr 28, 2011)

mines comes back 99% of the time as well unless there is a bitch in heat, then i have to shout a few times before he comes back, or a squirrel or rabbit for about 2 - 5 mins I`ve no chance unless i see it before him. but saying that i wouldnt change him for the world, i think the wee man is perfect the way he is, he has so much character even when he is misbehaving hahaha.









how could not not love that face ehhh. :whistling2:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> It is difficult, I had a tendency to tighten the lead in Toby's older years when we were approached by other dogs as I knew he was a real grumpy bugger, and would likely snap if not shown proper etiquette from the other dog - but I did find that made the problem worse as he must have thought I was tensing up due to the other dog and he felt he had to protect me!
> If you stay loose they tend to think "Hey, this clearly isn't an issue, I'll leave it alone!"


She does seem more nervy and reluctant to go near others if I tighten the lead, I really need to stop :whip:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

It is true tightening the lead causes stress, but you obviously know that.

My Retriever licks a lot so in a way a similar thing and we visit the elderly who I don't want licked as as well as them not liking it I never know how clean their hands are. My approach is always say from the first second "oh yes she loves her shoulders rubbed" whilst I then kneel and gently put both my hands under her muzzle heels of the hand near the nose, and use my fingers to tickle her ears. It looks 100% like affection and yet is very very easy to stop their head turning even just holding them loosely most the time.


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## snakemum (May 7, 2011)

ours is slitly off balance ..... she is a :devil: lol 
I love my little trouble maker


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Kare said:


> It is true tightening the lead causes stress, but you obviously know that.
> 
> My Retriever licks a lot so in a way a similar thing and we visit the elderly who I don't want licked as as well as them not liking it I never know how clean their hands are. My approach is always say from the first second "oh yes she loves her shoulders rubbed" whilst I then kneel and gently put both my hands under her muzzle heels of the hand near the nose, and use my fingers to tickle her ears. It looks 100% like affection and yet is very very easy to stop their head turning even just holding them loosely most the time.


ooo thats a good idea : victory:

Off-topic, but has anyone ever considered training their dog to be a PAT dog?
Just something I've been thinking of lately..


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> ooo thats a good idea : victory:
> 
> Off-topic, but has anyone ever considered training their dog to be a PAT dog?
> Just something I've been thinking of lately..


Jazzy is far too excitable a creature to be trained as a therapy dog :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Jazzy is far too excitable a creature to be trained as a therapy dog :lol2:


:lol2:
Can you imagine the elderly or sick with her running round :lol2:
Ozzy is quite chilled out and it would be a good experience, says I have to be 18 though, swines :whip:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

cloggers said:


> :lol2:
> Can you imagine the elderly or sick with her running round :lol2:
> Ozzy is quite chilled out and it would be a good experience, says I have to be 18 though, swines :whip:


I think she'd be the cause of a couple of heart attacks :gasp:


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

My dogs have perfect recall now and Loki our staff is a bit crazy he was running towards me I shouted rollover expecting him to stop and do it, but he sort of did it while running and carried on running afterwards haha.


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

My staff is an excitable girl, but she has never ignored the command to return to me, she'll even break off mid duck/squirrel/cat chase,she is a bit of a bouncy basket case (she's not yet two) so this is some feat for her!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

all dogs are not created equal...

my big dog is a dog... my little dog is a diva... you can't even toss food to my small dog... she doesn't get "fetch" or "catch"... she doesn't get anything really...

she just wants to sit on your lap and sleep while you pet her...

totally useless... totally stupid...

but she's such a sweety!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> Off-topic, but has anyone ever considered training their dog to be a PAT dog?
> Just something I've been thinking of lately..


You don't _really_ train them to be PAT dogs, apart from training them not to jump up at people.

They have to be dogs that fulfil a certain criteria, i.e. they need to enjoy meeting people and be patted and stroked by strangers, they need to be unflappable and not likely to react to and unusual sounds and, above all, they must be calm and no excitable.

So they have to be examined by a vet or a trained PAT officer to ensure that they fulfil this criteria before they will be accepted.

My Siamese was a PAT cat for years and she fulfilled all that criteria perfectly,.


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## CharleyG.13 (Jan 6, 2011)

This thread has been an interesting read !!

My rescue, GSD x Eng. Mastiff. Stunning girl, 15months. Pretty awesome recall, but no chance if there's a dog she wants to play with... which can be highly frustrating early in the morning :lol2:


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## jimnamman (Apr 28, 2011)

CharleyG.13 said:


> This thread has been an interesting read !!
> 
> My rescue, GSD x Eng. Mastiff. Stunning girl, 15months. Pretty awesome recall, but no chance if there's a dog she wants to play with... which can be highly frustrating early in the morning :lol2:


gorgeous yeah the boss just doesnt accept "sorry im late my dog was flurting with a wee spaniel which in turn made me miss my bus" excuse, which to be fair if i was a boss i wouldnt either. its annoying there is a family that stays over from me that lets there dog roam all day every day. the wee dog doesnt move far from there garden but is oout all the time even when she is in heat, that is a terrible time cause mines just doesnt listen. has made me late for work a few times Grrrrrrrrr :devil:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> You don't _really_ train them to be PAT dogs, apart from training them not to jump up at people.
> 
> They have to be dogs that fulfil a certain criteria, i.e. they need to enjoy meeting people and be patted and stroked by strangers, they need to be unflappable and not likely to react to and unusual sounds and, above all, they must be calm and no excitable.
> 
> ...


yeah I realised afterwards, I won't be able to do it for two years anyway, though I could do the junior one where I promote it :hmm:
Did you find it very rewarding? I've been seriously thinking about it..


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

jimnamman said:


> gorgeous yeah the boss just doesnt accept "sorry im late my dog was flurting with a wee spaniel which in turn made me miss my bus" excuse, which to be fair if i was a boss i wouldnt either. its annoying there is a family that stays over from me that lets there dog roam all day every day. the wee dog doesnt move far from there garden but is oout all the time even when she is in heat, that is a terrible time cause mines just doesnt listen. has made me late for work a few times Grrrrrrrrr :devil:


Stupid people, might be worth ringing the local dog warden they will usually just have a word with them to stop them doing it. As it's an offence..Obviously they don't have to know it was you that rang the dog warden...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> yeah I realised afterwards, I won't be able to do it for two years anyway, though I could do the junior one where I promote it :hmm:
> Did you find it very rewarding? I've been seriously thinking about it..


I did! Our first placement was a metnal health day centre, but then we were used in therapy programmes with an elderly road accident victim and a stroke victim.

The only thing I didn't agree with was the fact that you have to pay to do it! Somehow I think if you are volunteering your time to go and do this then you shouldn't have to pay for the privilege, but that was just my opinion.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> I did! Our first placement was a metnal health day centre, but then we were used in therapy programmes with an elderly road accident victim and a stroke victim.
> 
> The only thing I didn't agree with was the fact that you have to pay to do it! Somehow I think if you are volunteering your time to go and do this then you shouldn't have to pay for the privilege, but that was just my opinion.



Only just seen this :blush:

yeah I saw that you have to pay to do it, I guess it is only £19 a year but like you said, I'm giving up my time so I shouldn't have to pay, I'll have to have a good think about it.


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## Salamanda (May 28, 2008)

I have a husky enough said really :lol2:
I do let him off the lead in the tennis court (escape proof) and he is actually very good at coming back when you call him but I would not trust him off the lead anywhere else because I know as soon as he see's a rabbit or something he will be gone lol.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Salamanda said:


> I have a husky enough said really :lol2:
> I do let him off the lead in the tennis court (escape proof) and he is actually very good at coming back when you call him but I would not trust him off the lead anywhere else because I know as soon as he see's a rabbit or something he will be gone lol.


Wise choice, too many huskies get ran over after running away... Numerous huskies are found on the motorways near me all the time.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> Only just seen this :blush:
> 
> yeah I saw that you have to pay to do it, I guess it is only £19 a year but like you said, I'm giving up my time so I shouldn't have to pay, I'll have to have a good think about it.


Another alternative to consider is to be a volunteer Blue Cross speaker.

You do a little correspondence course - couple of written tests and they provide you with everything you need in terms of equipment - t-shirt, posters, animal cards for games, identity chip and even an imitation poo to teach children how to pick them up! :lol:. 

Then you're equipped to go into schools, scout groups, rainbows etc etc. and teach them about proper pet care. You can have your dog assessed, the same as Pets as Therapy and take her in with you too.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Oooo where do I sign up for my fake poop?


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Kare said:


> Oooo where do I sign up for my fake poop?



Blue Cross - Volunteering opportunities with The Blue Cross

I just filled this in, I think it was right. They said they'll respond within the next few days. If I don't hear anything, I'll ring.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

dexter got to the stage where he would stop instantly and come strait back to me, i had to have perfect recall in order to let him off-lead because i couldn't take the risk of him causing a scene or something happening, but now that his nature and temperament has changed i've been lenient and basically slacking in his training so now he responds most of the time. he'll be off sniffing something and watch for my body language to judge for himself how 'urgent' it is for him to get to my side when i call lol 

sometimes i have to call to him as much as three times! but it'd my own fault, not his. although slightly annoying at times i could get him back up to scratch if i needed to and thats fine by me. i dont want a robot as a dog, i like personality in my pets.


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## tom and tina (Oct 28, 2009)

Can i add my mums dog. Hes a 5 year old lab (been with the family for 4 years).
Its brilliant one word from any human, and he does what the hell he likes.
All mine and my brothers friends call him nutter ( his name is shearer. I guess you could call him anything he's just bonkers)
So no on the recall front. Just no in all cases, except he does sit and wait for his food.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Session 4 out of 5 now done and dusted with Jazzy... apparently she's come on so well the trainer let her off lead! :gasp: I wasn't there as I was working, but apparently she performed wonderfully, even with the arrival of other dogs and small children!! Her focus was brilliant and she's really redeemed herself from yesterday (she barked the kennels down when I took her for her groom :blush: )
Looking up for Jazz! And she gets her little friend on Saturday... a whole new dog for us to train :mf_dribble:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Well we appear to have had a major setback :whip: Ozzy has been pushing the boundaries lately but today she was a nightmare.

Nearly strangled her in the park, let her off to do her usual game of catch before we walk round, started really well coming back when asked and all that, anyway I decided to do a bit of practise and some of the exercises we learnt at puppy class. One of which is sit, down, sit, stand, which she has more or less perfected with out treats. 

So I put her into sit and then gave the down command, completely ignored me. Sat her down and again gave the down command, this time she leapt up and nipped my hand, stern NO and asked her to sit again. Complete disregard and ran off, so I hid behind the tree watching her, she then came running back and when I went to praise for returning she tried to nip again. 

So I decided she'd pushed her luck to far and shouted 'here', one of the very few commands she knows she can not ignore, what does she do? straight to the other end of the field :whip: Now normally I'd walk in the other direction but she began chasing a group of birds, and then led down and batted something with her paw and went into 'play' mode, jumping round like mad but keeping her eyes completely focused on this one spot. So went to have a look, she'd got a bloody bird :devil:, as I approached she led on it, so I 
had to roll her (NOT an Alpha roll, it was the only way I could get her off). God knows how but little birdie survived, but I checked all his wings and if he could perch, which he could so I let him go. 

Ozzy must have realised she was in trouble because as soon as I said 'floor' she hit the deck, and I put her lead on. She didn't get her game of catch and she didn't get the walk round the back of the pond which she loves.
She walked all the way home with her head up, ears down and tail firmly between her legs, which makes me think she realises what she did as after the rolling I never shouted at her and I spoke softly. 

Due to our setback, we're going back to basics tonight and I'm going to dig out a training lead :whip:



Ophexis said:


> Session 4 out of 5 now done and dusted with Jazzy... apparently she's come on so well the trainer let her off lead! :gasp: I wasn't there as I was working, but apparently she performed wonderfully, even with the arrival of other dogs and small children!! Her focus was brilliant and she's really redeemed herself from yesterday (she barked the kennels down when I took her for her groom :blush: )
> Looking up for Jazz! And she gets her little friend on Saturday... a whole new dog for us to train :mf_dribble:


I'm glad she's improving :no1: 
what's your new dog? is this the rescue you were on about?


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

occasionally they insist on pushing you too far, its how you deal with those situations that really determine your dogs behaviour, from what i just read you dealt with it very well. the trick is to stay calm and go back a few steps in training.

having a rotty i'm used to him pushing my buttons every now and then, its a trait of the breed, he knows his place, what he can and cant do but every so often he'll be a total pain just for the fun of it. You just need to take deep breaths and keep your head and dont lose your temper with the dog otherwise you will be back at square one with possibly more problems.

good luck with your dog, you seem to be doing great :2thumb:


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

thanks : victory:, she's still sulking in the corner, I've let her understand there's no hard feelings but ah well.
I think she's just testing me, like I said its only the last day or two other than that she's been good as gold. 
I'll just go back to basics and let her know who's the boss in this relationship :lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

As I understand it you should work her first and then the play is her reward for good behaviour. Once you've let her run around and enjoy her freedom, it will be harder for her to concentrate and settle down to working.

Also, if I remember rightly, she's at that juvenile age where GSDs can develop 'hearing problems" and become very wilful.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Ahh, it's one of those testing days! Every dog has them, as people have said it's how you deal with them that shapes how they behave later on, and it sounds like you did the right thing  Every dog alive is going to try and push your buttons at some stage or another! Some can be more resilient than others! :lol2:



cloggers said:


> what's your new dog? is this the rescue you were on about?


Yeah, the shih tzu x papillon :2thumb: We're hoping things go well with initial introductions, and Gizmo can stay with us


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## Recluso (Dec 3, 2010)

As a youngster, our Springer was an obnoxious little brat  'Merlin, come!' resulted in 'nyaaah I'm not coming back!' as he buggered off across the fields.

These days (as a more sedentary 11 year old) he's much better. The Gordon is generally much better behaved, although lately the pair of them have decided that 'come' is optional when they spot another dog.

*facepalm*


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

Recluso said:


> As a youngster, our Springer was an obnoxious little brat  'Merlin, come!' resulted in 'nyaaah I'm not coming back!' as he buggered off across the fields.
> 
> These days (as a more sedentary 11 year old) he's much better. The Gordon is generally much better behaved, although lately the pair of them have decided that 'come' is optional when they spot another dog.
> 
> *facepalm*



these days my dog thinks the 'come' command is optional depending on what sights and smells are around, its the 'COME HERE NOW!' that gets his attention haha

but we did an experiment on our morning walk, back to basics with treats in my back pocket and even without them he came back first time every time so i don't need to worry about the 'hang on a minute' attitude he's got lol


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> As I understand it you should work her first and then the play is her reward for good behaviour. Once you've let her run around and enjoy her freedom, it will be harder for her to concentrate and settle down to working.
> 
> Also, if I remember rightly, she's at that juvenile age where GSDs can develop 'hearing problems" and become very wilful.


Yeah I thought it might have been that, just a shock as she does normally settle down quickly, it's like she's two different dogs, one really playful and the other sat ready to work with a click of the fingers, just more shock that she completely ignored me to be honest.

The few books I've got on GSDs have all said they go through a phase at about 6-8 months, well she's fast approaching that age :roll:



Ophexis said:


> Ahh, it's one of those testing days! Every dog has them, as people have said it's how you deal with them that shapes how they behave later on, and it sounds like you did the right thing  Every dog alive is going to try and push your buttons at some stage or another! Some can be more resilient than others! :lol2:
> 
> Yeah, the shih tzu x papillon :2thumb: We're hoping things go well with initial introductions, and Gizmo can stay with us


aww, well I hope they get on :no1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> The few books I've got on GSDs have all said they go through a phase at about 6-8 months, well she's fast approaching that age :roll:


That's what I thought! It'll be a combination of being a teenager and having fun, then being expected to work.

A bit like how as children we used to hate the first school lesson after break! :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Salamanda said:


> I have a husky enough said really :lol2:
> I do let him off the lead in the tennis court (escape proof) and he is actually very good at coming back when you call him but I would not trust him off the lead anywhere else because I know as soon as he see's a rabbit or something he will be gone lol.


 
yep!... mine's half husky... you can see that wild streak clearly...

when i snap her out of it... she acts mostly like a doberman... but instincts get her attention before her training does...

i have lots of cotton tail rabbit behind me with a fence dividing me and my big dog.... she can see and smell the rabbits... wants to chase them... but the disipline kicks in... then she pays little attention to them...

a good way of getting a dog used to things around it that it wants to chase or whatever...


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

We don't let ours off in public places, we have permission to walk on our neighbours arable farm though - its over 200 acres and there are no public rights of way so we get it to ourselves! She will stick by us on the farm but in public is totally untrustworthy as she loves people so much she will run 500 yards to go and say hello to an unsuspecting passer by. At 50 kilos, 27 inches at the shoulder and distinctly wolfish, it is a bit unfair on the general public so she stays on the extendable..


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## Salamanda (May 28, 2008)

TheDogMan said:


> Wise choice, too many huskies get ran over after running away... Numerous huskies are found on the motorways near me all the time.


thats so sad  so many people buy huskies without doing a bit of research first! They really are not like other dogs.



HABU said:


> yep!... mine's half husky... you can see that wild streak clearly...
> 
> when i snap her out of it... she acts mostly like a doberman... but instincts get her attention before her training does...
> 
> ...


we have sheep behind my house given the chance he would possibly kill one :gasp:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

feorag said:


> Another alternative to consider is to be a volunteer Blue Cross speaker.
> 
> You do a little correspondence course - couple of written tests and they provide you with everything you need in terms of equipment - t-shirt, posters, animal cards for games, identity chip and even an imitation poo to teach children how to pick them up! :lol:.
> 
> Then you're equipped to go into schools, scout groups, rainbows etc etc. and teach them about proper pet care. You can have your dog assessed, the same as Pets as Therapy and take her in with you too.


Having looked into it it appears they do not allow dogs that are fed a natural diet (ie raw fed) to take part :gasp:


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Kare said:


> Having looked into it it appears they do not allow dogs that are fed a natural diet (ie raw fed) to take part :gasp:


WHAAAA!?!?!...Why not?How ridiculous..


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

One of a list for about 20 requirements is


> Dogs should not be fed or have access to raw meat as they may carry disease causing bacteria


Kibble fed dogs fresh from the park that may have eaten faeces wasn't mentioned however.....


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Kare said:


> One of a list for about 20 requirements is
> 
> 
> Kibble fed dogs fresh from the park that may have eaten faeces wasn't mentioned however.....


That's ridiculous, funny I've been feeding my dog raw for months now and I'm not dead yet...


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