# looking to get my DWA



## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

hi im looking to get my DWA in the new year ,i only want to have a caimen , ive heard that it is all changing in march with the DWA wot i want to know is will it be easyier to get a DWA if it is only for a caimen and not hot snakes/inverts ect and how much do u all pay for ur insurance ect ,any help with this will be great many thanks


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Where did you hear about the DWA licensing changing in March? There is a proposal to standardise fees and licensing requirements throughout the country and to change the renewal period to 2 years. AFAIK, there are no plans to alter the "ease" with which you can obtain a license. It will be more difficult to obtain a license for a Caiman as you would have to demonstrate that you have an appropriate setup for the animal, therefore that would cost you more and take more time as opposed to small vivs within a larger lockable viv inside a lockable room for the likes of DWA inverts.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

thats wot i was told that it will be the same for the country as u stated ,so u think it will be harder for a caimen than a hot ? i have a invert/reptile room that is a brick building that is locked and alarmed so i was thinking of having it in there rather than in the house so wot would they think about that and wot other special requirements is there other than having a window on the door and a light switch on the outside and wot are people paying for there insurance ?


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

The enclosure would have to be "fit for purpose" which means not only secure, but adequate for the animal's needs in terms of space and environmental requirements. Given the size of adult Caimans, this is where I could forsee problems in convincing the licensing officer that you have done it properly. My suggestion is to find out other licensed owners of Caimans and get the dimensions heating and lighting arrangements and contents of their enclosures and use it as a basis for yours, then you have the evidence of other accepted enclosures to support your application. I'm not saying it would be more difficult to get the license for a Caiman as opposed to a venomous snake, just that the council may require some convincing that you have a safe, secure and appropriate housing for what amounts to a small crocodile!

Having said that, I don't have a Caiman, so a Caiman owner may come along and tell me I'm talking from where the sun doesn't shine!!!:lol2:


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## amber_gekko (May 11, 2007)

Why dont you just ask Daz at the Reptile Rooms he's just been through it and got turned down

Neighbours object to Blackpool man's bid to keep venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)

Committee says no to Blackpool man's plan for venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

amber_gekko said:


> Why dont you just ask Daz at the Reptile Rooms he's just been through it and got turned down
> 
> Neighbours object to Blackpool man's bid to keep venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)
> 
> Committee says no to Blackpool man's plan for venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)


That is really ridiculous, it is a private matter so why do his neighbours need to be asked? People should mind their own business. The DWA is supposed to be tight on security of the animal with prior checks, surely if his application is rejected by the council on the grounds of his neighbours feelings they are admitting they have little confidence in their own ability to judge and need to scrap the whole thing.



> “We had a corn snake that escaped from the zoo, we nicknamed him Houdini” he said.


The ignorance is this man is astonishing, no doubt this was the Zoo's fault because they create their own security rules, they don't even have to go through the DWA process! No one of the public has been harmed by a DWA snake yet apart from the owner. Why do we have to go through strict licencing laws while Zoo's (who admit they cannot keep a corn snake to the press) get off scot free. 

As for your application why don't you ask around? I imagine you are spending thousands on a huge tank inside a tank.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Unfortunately, the DWA act is about public protection, so the licensing panel abviously felt it was the right thing to do to scare the cr*p out of his neighbours with stories of murderous "poisonous" snakes living nearby. Also unfortunate is the fact that, at the moment, Councils are free to impose whatever conditions they see fit and refuse a license on whatever grounds they like. You can challenge their decision in the courts, at your expense of course, but they are likely to continue to put ever more ridiculous obstacles in the way. Some councils' view is that no-one in their right mind would want to keep dangerous animals, therefore anyone applying is not in their right mind and therefore unsuitable to own one, end of discussion.

GRRRRR...................I hate the DWA licensing system as it stands!!!!!!


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## steveyruss (Feb 19, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Unfortunately, the DWA act is about public protection, so the licensing panel abviously felt it was the right thing to do to scare the cr*p out of his neighbours with stories of murderous "poisonous" snakes living nearby. Also unfortunate is the fact that, at the moment, Councils are free to impose whatever conditions they see fit and refuse a license on whatever grounds they like. You can challenge their decision in the courts, at your expense of course, but they are likely to continue to put ever more ridiculous obstacles in the way. Some councils' view is that no-one in their right mind would want to keep dangerous animals, therefore anyone applying is not in their right mind and therefore unsuitable to own one, end of discussion.
> 
> GRRRRR...................I hate the DWA licensing system as it stands!!!!!!


Councils have been taken to court in the past and lost cases where they couldn't justify turning down an application. Owning any animal is a private freedom that cannot be refused if the safety measures were met, the courts accept that, spreading propaganda about magical corn snakes is as laughable as it is unacceptable sicne the guy involved wasn't apart of that. I'm certain that the zoo just didn't house it properly, which is plain frightening. The guy in the article would almost certainly walk out of court a winner. The DWA is useless, but most Councils will come to an agreement unlike this one.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

steveyruss said:


> Councils have been taken to court in the past and lost cases where they couldn't justify turning down an application. Owning any animal is a private freedom that cannot be refused if the safety measures were met, the courts accept that, spreading propaganda about magical corn snakes is as laughable as it is unacceptable sicne the guy involved wasn't apart of that. I'm certain that the zoo just didn't house it properly, which is plain frightening. The guy in the article would almost certainly walk out of court a winner. The DWA is useless, but most Councils will come to an agreement unlike this one.


I want to know why councillors had anything to do with this?

After all they are only jumped up little gits and the whole thing looks like bollocks.

If it had been me I would have taken this to appeal!!!!!!!

But there again I like the thought of fighting things like this!!!


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## Agkistrodon (Dec 12, 2008)

When I was researching on the phone for my DWA, after speaking on the phone with the licensing officer for my area it seemed like the DWA was changing to aim towards what others had mentioned here, but also with a further focus on public liability and a shift away from the health of the animal. At least that what he mentioned the proposal was - apparently it's believed that the DWA doesn't concentrate enough on what happens if the snake gets out and tags someone, and that it's the keeper's responsibility to make sure the care requirements for the animal are correct, not the councils. Just like non-DWA animals then I guess.

So possibly more expensive/different kind of insurance but no more vet inspections?


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Councils will take the cheapest and easiest routes and licencing officers are more familiar with alcohol and event licencing. My Councils doesnt visit at all - it is all down to the vet. If the vet is happy then the application is approved. 

Like all licencing/planning applicactions council officers are working to approve not turn down - they can only turn down if the criteria isnt met - this is to remove the subjectivity and supposedly encourage an equitable process.


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## amber_gekko (May 11, 2007)

steveyruss said:


> That is really ridiculous, it is a private matter so why do his neighbours need to be asked? People should mind their own business. The DWA is supposed to be tight on security of the animal with prior checks, surely if his application is rejected by the council on the grounds of his neighbours feelings they are admitting they have little confidence in their own ability to judge and need to scrap the whole thing.
> 
> The ignorance is this man is astonishing, no doubt this was the Zoo's fault because they create their own security rules, they don't even have to go through the DWA process! No one of the public has been harmed by a DWA snake yet apart from the owner. Why do we have to go through strict licencing laws while Zoo's (who admit they cannot keep a corn snake to the press) get off scot free.
> 
> As for your application why don't you ask around? I imagine you are spending thousands on a huge tank inside a tank.


This is why i put the links on, Shep is from Blackpool so its likely he'll face similar problems and the man who was turned down works in the local reptile shop he goes to so he seams like a good person to ask as he only went through it a few months ago and may be able to advise on how to do it.

It is a shame though but it seams the council here are against it


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Has anyone holding a valid DWA moved to another area and had problems with the re-issue???


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

amber_gekko said:


> Why dont you just ask Daz at the Reptile Rooms he's just been through it and got turned down
> 
> Neighbours object to Blackpool man's bid to keep venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)
> 
> Committee says no to Blackpool man's plan for venomous snakes (From Blackpool Citizen)


 
We had a corn snake that escaped from the zoo, we nicknamed him Houdini” he said. 
“Luckily he was non-venomous, but it goes to show, that even with trained staff, things can go wrong.” Council veterinary surgeon, Michael Fielding, has inspected the snakehouse and recommended a number of safety precautions for the licence which Mr Finnerty says he has adhered to. 

Oh my days. The Zoo had a corn snake that escaped :O :O disgraceful!!:whistling2: hardly safety precautions are the same with a corn that couldnt do more damage than a chip fork than a Gabby that could kill quickly. :censor:


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## malthereplover (Aug 22, 2008)

You also have to prove you can properly handle the animal, so handling courses are probably in order.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

malthereplover said:


> You also have to prove you can properly handle the animal, so handling courses are probably in order.


Do you? and where might a person avail themselves of one of these "handling courses"


(Note to self: Bite tongue, 'cos you know this gets you into all sorts of bother...)


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

malthereplover said:


> You also have to prove you can properly handle the animal, so handling courses are probably in order.


I'll second Stuarts question..................where and its not a requirement anyway!!!!!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

malthereplover said:


> You also have to prove you can properly handle the animal, so handling courses are probably in order.


 
as far as i am aware no such course exists - and how would you prove you can handle a venemous species before you have had the approval to keep one?

(i am also of the opinion that handling of all hots should be kept to an absolute necessity basis!!)

:whistling2: reading those links makes me quite angry... time for a beer i think...


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

hope that fella from blackpool challenges that ruling, i wouldnt have thought many of the dwa keepers on here dont have their animals in a residential area so surely they wouldnt have a leg to stand on?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> hope that fella from blackpool challenges that ruling, i wouldnt have thought many of the dwa keepers on here dont have their animals in a residential area so surely they wouldnt have a leg to stand on?


Yep....what the hell does a residential area have to do with anything!!1

How many half wits with F..off big out of control dogs live in residential areas......doh....most I expect.......

DWA licensing...............bollocks comes to mind...:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> Yep....what the hell does a residential area have to do with anything!!1
> 
> How many half wits with F..off big out of control dogs live in residential areas......doh....most I expect.......
> 
> DWA licensing...............bollocks comes to mind...:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


thats wot i was thinking , i only want a caimen more people have been harmed/killed by large snakes like retics ect than caimens , i dont think a caimen should be on dwa when there is lots of other very large reps like niles ,retics ect


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

shep1979 said:


> thats wot i was thinking , i only want a caimen more people have been harmed/killed by large snakes like retics ect than caimens , i dont think a caimen should be on dwa when there is lots of other very large reps like niles ,retics ect


you've never met a caiman have you?for the record, in this country, a giant snake (retic rock, whatever) has NEVER killed a person.The SIZE of a reptile has little to do with how dangerous it is. I've been bitten by a fairly sized reticulated python. It hurt a bit. A caiman of half the size would have removed the lower half of my arm (if it rolled, they do on most bites) and i'd have DEFINATELY been in for broken bones and ligament damage if it had just bitten and not rolled.If you think Caimen don't belong on the DWA...then you are FAR from being ready to own one.
with regards to getting the licence. I expect it will be harder to get than it would be for most snakes or inverts, caimans get big and need a lot of space, not the easiest enclosure to make or maintain. getting your enclosure to pass will be the hardest part.


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