# My first large aquarium, advice please :-)



## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey guys, 
I've currently got a small 35 litre tank with some lemon tetras and black widow tetras. It all good. Healthy fish, good water, good temps, so I do kinda know what I'm doing.

But, my new tank just got delivered about an hour ago, and it's massive!! 
60 x 18 x 24, which is around the 400 litre mark.

Anywhoos, gonna start buying the kit now. And was looking for a little advice.

Was planning on getting 2 x 300w delta therm heaters, one for each side of the tank. Would this be an ok thing to do?

Also, been looking at external filters, have seen a few, but was wondering if could recommend any.

One last thing. I've got my heart set on getting a Tiger Oscar, in your own experience what other fish are suitable?

Many thanks guys,
Joanna
:2thumb:


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## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

Wow thats a good size tank, same size as mine (is it a juwel by any chance?)

There's lots of thing you can do with a tank this size.

Im using a 200 watt heater on one side and a 100 watt on the other, however i find the 100watt doesnt come on that often but i keep it in as a failsafe incase the other one blows. Two 300watt sounds a little over kill maybe go with two 200 watts?

Im using 2x Rena XP3's for filtration, but i have heard great things aobut the FX5 and have always wanted to try it out.

Oscars are great fish, with great personalities, just made sure you have a good fitting hood with no gaps (they can jump really well and can push up plastic flaps and the like) 

If i were to start again I'd go with a C.A cichlid tank, including an oscar, jack dempseys, severums etc. However you need to make sure you have a good amount of caves so they can establish terrotorys and get away from aggresiveness. 

Another idea i would love to try, but haven't had the chance, is have a large community tank, i think it would look great with hundreds of little fish. Large shoals of tetras can look just as impressive and a couple of fish. You could have lots of big shoals of fish, including large schools of cories, tetras, rasboras along with gouramis and many many more. It could look amazing all planted too.

You have endless options but i think a planted community tank would look fantastic, I think thats the root im going to go down as my turtles are currently in my big tank but they will hopefully be moving to an indoor pond soon :2thumb:


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## emmz29 (Feb 9, 2010)

ehiem 2028 with built in heater may be a good choice of filter its in the same league of the fluvel fx5, oscars are great hardy bugas also they aint scared of comin to the top of the tank on feeding time :2thumb:


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

Jack0 said:


> Wow thats a good size tank, same size as mine (is it a juwel by any chance?)
> 
> There's lots of thing you can do with a tank this size.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that Hun, lots of food for thought.
It's an seashell elite tank, got it from Maidenhead, total bargain for £379.
(actually got the 5ft for the price of the 4 ft).
Think the hood will be ok - I actually need to wait until my hub comes in so he can help me lift it!

Will look at the filters you mentioned, and about lowering the wattage of the heaters.
Getting so excited now :lol2: 

Oh, something else I thought about - not sure whether to stick to gravel or try sand. Any thoughts?


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## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

Bargain! Yeah moving the tank can be harder than you would think, and just getting it onto the stand was a hassle:lol2:
Iv always gone with sand, It's much easier to clean, you can just hover the syphon over the sand and it picks up any mess, and IMO it looks alot better. With gravel I didnt realise how much crap gets caught inside until I took apart my 3ft tank nd i was shocked, haven't used it since.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

What you can keep with an Oscar depends on the individual Oscar. Peaceful shaoling fish like silver dollars are usually ok. Mine is also fine with Polypterus.

Mine will not tolerate other Cichlids and isn't keen on any type of catfish/plec. Be sure not to add any fish in that would fit in its mouth.

Oscars will rearrange your tank if possible so think carefully about decor. You don't want a large stone balanced that might be knocked over and cause damage to the tank or other occupants. Plants be they live or fake will most likely be uprooted and moved as well.

My tank (for sale!) is larger than yours and I use a Fluval FX5 to filter it with a Fluval 3+ the other side of the tank just to keep on top of any little particles. I have to warn you... given a few months you'll be thinking how nice it would be to have an even bigger tank 

Also think about how you will clean this bigger tank. Do you need a longer syphon? Water changes can take ages with small diameter tubes and relying on gravity so do you need a power head/pump with a large bore hose? Syphoning straight out of a window or door is a good idea with lots of water to change so think about long hoses as well. You can buy these from the pond section in garden centres. And do you need an algae scraper with a longer handle? 

Do you have enough water treatment for this new bigger tank? I can recommend Seachem Prime. A little goes a very long way.

All little things to think about


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

_simon_ said:


> What you can keep with an Oscar depends on the individual Oscar. Peaceful shaoling fish like silver dollars are usually ok. Mine is also fine with Polypterus.
> 
> Mine will not tolerate other Cichlids and isn't keen on any type of catfish/plec. Be sure not to add any fish in that would fit in its mouth.
> 
> ...


So many little things to think about. Only about 5 mins ago, I was having a look at my water treatment stuff to see if I need some more. Think I've enough to get it going. 
I have an algae scraper that is a magnet, so that should hopefully be ok.

I'm still struggling to imagine the amount of water that is gonna go in to it. 

Hoping to have it running in about 4 weeks time - not something I like to rush 

Thanks for the advice and pointers :2thumb:


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

*COUGH* black ghost knife fish *COUGH*

they look fragile, but will show a big cichlid where to get off


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What's your Ph and hardness first?

I'd probably look at running two filters on a tank that size.


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## emmz29 (Feb 9, 2010)

jo-jo-beans said:


> So many little things to think about. Only about 5 mins ago, I was having a look at my water treatment stuff to see if I need some more. Think I've enough to get it going.
> I have an algae scraper that is a magnet, so that should hopefully be ok.
> 
> I'm still struggling to imagine the amount of water that is gonna go in to it.
> ...


 one little tip hun if yousing a magnet cleaner with sand, 1 i repeat 1 grain of sand inside that magnet cleaner ooo lord wat a scratch it will leave i made this mistake and i did regret it such a very small problem but leaves 1 awfull scratch:gasp:


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

jo-jo-beans said:


> Thanks for that Hun, lots of food for thought.
> It's an seashell elite tank, got it from Maidenhead, total bargain for £379.
> (actually got the 5ft for the price of the 4 ft).
> Think the hood will be ok - I actually need to wait until my hub comes in so he can help me lift it!
> ...


If you want the sand look but with the benefit of gravel (being heavier and settling quicker) just go for a fine grade gravel. The Oscar will move I around a lot anyway

Oh and I know it's not set up yet but what about some piccies?


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

emmz29 said:


> one little tip hun if yousing a magnet cleaner with sand, 1 i repeat 1 grain of sand inside that magnet cleaner ooo lord wat a scratch it will leave i made this mistake and i did regret it such a very small problem but leaves 1 awfull scratch:gasp:


Ooooh, never thought of that. Thanks babe :no1:


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

chalky76 said:


> If you want the sand look but with the benefit of gravel (being heavier and settling quicker) just go for a fine grade gravel. The Oscar will move I around a lot anyway
> 
> Oh and I know it's not set up yet but what about some piccies?


Thanks for the pm bud )
Will look into the gravel.

Here's a wee pic. I couldn't even find a toy fish to put in it :lol2:


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Lovely tank you have there. Bet you're getting a headache trying to decide what to put in it?


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## scottishsany (Nov 5, 2009)

*tank*

nice tank my uncle had oscars but ripped up the plants and moved everthing so ended up with a bare tank with gravel and 2 big fish still stunning fish..I would go for clown loaches or a snakeneck turtle lol my opinion.. That out the shop at coatbridge ?? sandy


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## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

I think even thi size tank is too small for a decent sized school of clown loach, they can reach 16" and prefer to be in groups of atleast six requiring alot of space.


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

scottishsany said:


> nice tank my uncle had oscars but ripped up the plants and moved everthing so ended up with a bare tank with gravel and 2 big fish still stunning fish..I would go for clown loaches or a snakeneck turtle lol my opinion.. That out the shop at coatbridge ?? sandy


Hey, yeah it is, just in Mackinnon Mills. They've been incredibly helpful and knowledgeable so far. 

They've got a Snakeneck turtle out at chaterleraut, but I don't think it's for sale tho. My hub was really taken with him.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Pair of oscars will be fine in that tank. But after that your not really donna have the stocking room to add many more.

Personally if it was me I would ditch the Oscars as they are extremely messy and focus on some of the slightly smaller cichlids. Pair of Jack Dempseys or Carpintes would look really nice with some smaller dither fish.

IMO 1 external is more than enough. No point buying 2 when 1 good sized one will do the job.

Fluval FX5 as mentioned is a good/reliable bet. 2 heaters and a good light system and your away.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Oscars have a bad rep for being messy but this mostly stems from the old days when people used to feed them dog food and the like.

With the correct diet Oscars aren't _that _messy. By messy what people mean is that they take a mouthful of food, chew it up and then spit some of it back out or expel it through their gills. If you can keep a shoal of something with them that will eat what's expelled then mess isn't an issue. My silver dollars eat the expelled food. Also an Oscars digestive system isn't great so their waste is actually edible and the dollars will also eat that as well.

Getting a pair can be a pain. You either have to buy a ready bonded pair or keep a number of babies together until they pair off (if they pair off) and then sell on the rest which is never easy. Oscars are very hard to move on. This is why I only keep the one Oscar.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

_simon_ said:


> Oscars have a bad rep for being messy but this mostly stems from the old days when people used to feed them dog food and the like.
> 
> With the correct diet Oscars aren't _that _messy. By messy what people mean is that they take a mouthful of food, chew it up and then spit some of it back out or expel it through their gills. If you can keep a shoal of something with them that will eat what's expelled then mess isn't an issue. My silver dollars eat the expelled food. Also an Oscars digestive system isn't great so their waste is actually edible and the dollars will also eat that as well.
> 
> Getting a pair can be a pain. You either have to buy a ready bonded pair or keep a number of babies together until they pair off (if they pair off) and then sell on the rest which is never easy. Oscars are very hard to move on. This is why I only keep the one Oscar.


They do produce alot of waste like all large cichlids.

Just with the Dempsies, they dont get as big and are not as messy feeders as the Oscars are. Plus Jacks are prettier as well (my opinion of course) Better colours and dont get as big. Plus easier to get a pair.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm not going to argue, they obviously produce more waste than your smaller fish but if you're keeping them in a well filtered tank then it's not an issue. It's not like you get piles of waste on the substrate or floating around the tank. Feeding time should be the messiest time but that will soon clear.

To the op: Don't be put off by the messy tag, you won't be left with a tank full of shit


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks for all you advice and suggestions guys. :2thumb:

I think I'm gonna pass on the Oscars, and go for some Malawi cichlids.
As much as I think that they are stunning fish, I think I'm gonna be a little superficial, and say that I'd like a "pretty" aquarium for the livingroom rather than a plain one with a couple of stunning fish in it.

Kinda reminds me of my tegus viv - big and filled with dirt - he's more than happy but it's not exactly one for the living room


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## emmz29 (Feb 9, 2010)

jo-jo-beans said:


> Thanks for all you advice and suggestions guys. :2thumb:
> 
> I think I'm gonna pass on the Oscars, and go for some Malawi cichlids.
> As much as I think that they are stunning fish, I think I'm gonna be a little superficial, and say that I'd like a "pretty" aquarium for the livingroom rather than a plain one with a couple of stunning fish in it.
> ...


 nice tank, plenty of nice colourfull malawi chihlids, some nice rock work, total comes to, nice front room:2thumb:


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## scottishsany (Nov 5, 2009)

*turtle*

hi jo yes saw the turtle in the park it did have a price up for £150 then the turtle moved into a tank it'self.But the last i was in it had moved to the big tank in the middle of the fish no price just "hi my name's ET" lol sandy


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

but if you get malawis, you can only have malawis, same fish.. different colours  do an azazon biotope, like 20 cardinal tetra, some smaller cichlids etc


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

spinnin_tom said:


> but if you get malawis, you can only have malawis, same fish.. different colours  do an azazon biotope, like 20 cardinal tetra, some smaller cichlids etc


You can stock with other species such as synodontis and other lake Malawi cichlids. I also have two bristle nose catfish, I have had no problems with these species being kept together.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I know what Tom means. Malawis aren't for everyone, I kept them myself for a while. They are colourful but I just didn't find them interesting enough. But that's the thing with fish keeping, you can sell up and try something new pretty easily.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

chalky76 said:


> You can stock with other species such as synodontis and other lake Malawi cichlids. I also have two bristle nose catfish, I have had no problems with these species being kept together.


CATFISH DON'T COUNT 
i meant you can't mix fish from malawi with other fish, different water needs, temperament and territory etc

haps are the only nice ones 

i didn't mean to shout.. caps was on lol


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## matthew_harwood (Mar 12, 2005)

One of the biggest factors in picking fish can be your local water, it really makes a difference as to how much hassle you have with keeping fish. 
If you have hardwater malawi etc are perfect and will thrive without to much hassle on your part. 
if you have soft water the Amazonian\discus etc again will be easier to care for.
if you have neutral water then you can usually get away with most things.

personally I would probably keep marines in a tank that big however discus are the best of both worlds when it comes to fish, you get stunning colours and personality, they look stunning in a large shoal with cardinals and dwarf cichlids for company in a planted tank. 

regards

matt


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

matthew_harwood said:


> One of the biggest factors in picking fish can be your local water, it really makes a difference as to how much hassle you have with keeping fish.
> If you have hardwater malawi etc are perfect and will thrive without to much hassle on your part.
> if you have soft water the Amazonian\discus etc again will be easier to care for.
> if you have neutral water then you can usually get away with most things.
> ...


Discus and personality is not 2 words I would put together.
They hang in the tank and do nothing. Yes they look nice in a planted tank but my god there boring. Also expensive as well.


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

caribe said:


> Discus and personality is not 2 words I would put together.
> They hang in the tank and do nothing. Yes they look nice in a planted tank but my god there boring. Also expensive as well.



I was also going to say they are not very forgiving if your water chemistry isn't pretty much spot on.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

chalky76 said:


> I was also going to say they are not very forgiving if your water chemistry isn't pretty much spot on.


Yeah I forgot about the water parameters for them. If you have slightly hard water then forget about them.


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

*Set up......so far )*

Ok guys and girls, got the tank up and running now.

Got the first external filter in and running, the two heaters are also going. Got it up to 25.2 C at the mo - nearly there :2thumb:
Have ordered two thermometers, but they haven't arrived yet, so I'm using a spare one i have for my reps, just dangling it in different places to see the difference.

Got a few bits of ocean and tufa rock to start off with.

Hopefully gonna pick up the light tomorrow, so i can get it fitted.

Rather chuffed so far.

So, any advice or suggestions?


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Get Discus :whistling2:

Our water is perfect for them

Haha nah seriously stick with malawis... my next tank will be malawis.

Not been to Maidenhead for a while, but last time I was in they had some decent stock in


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

Right, got my 2 thermometers now :no1:

So, can I get some advice on the best place to put them so get the most accurate overall reading?

I've currently suckered them at either corner, on the front part of the glass, height wise - roughly in the middle.

(was so much easier with my wee cute tank, with the sticker thermometer on the front of the glass :lol2.


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Sounds like they are in an ideal position to me.


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## jo-jo-beans (Jun 28, 2010)

chalky76 said:


> Sounds like they are in an ideal position to me.


Brilliant. I was kinda thinking that they were in the right position, but reassurance is always good :notworthy:

Been monitoring them, and they are both keeping a steady temp of 26.3- 26.7c which I'm quite happy about. Was worried about maintaining the temps in a large aquarium.


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