# mouse breeding/birthing help



## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i had 2 pregnant mice, 1 gave birth yesterday. my other pregnant female is lot bigger than the one that gave birth, i expected her to give birth first but here we are almost a week on from buying her and all she has done is make a nest, i have just checked her over. i think i can see babies moving but im not sure. she has a lump on her rear end, it is below and to the size of her genetails it is about the size of a babies head, could this be a baby pushing on her or could it be something else, i never noticed it for the first couple of days of having her (its in a place that i would have seen it) she has now had it for the last 2 days, if it is not a baby would ths effect her giving birth.

here is a pic to show how big she is, sorry i dont have any pics of the lump

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thanks in advance, i hope that i am worrying over nothing as she is beautiful


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i got some pics of the lump this morning, they arent very good but you can see the lump in some

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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Cant see the pics I'm afraid.

Some of my females have been huge and not given birth when I've thought see should have.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

well mia has stopped being round now and started to go paer shaped like my other mummy who gave birth 3 days back, i just worried that the lump will stop her giving birth


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

If you are too concerned take her to the vet and get some advice from them I'm sure they will have an idea whether it will interfere in her giving birth!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> i got some pics of the lump this morning, they arent very good but you can see the lump in some
> 
> Log in | Facebook


That looks like a vet job to me - could be a tumour of some sort, or an abscess or a cyst... but there *shouldn't* be a lump there like that.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm just finding it hard to believe that you can seriously think a lump in the groin is a pup head!! Or that it's been there for 3 days and you've done nothing about it,m except ask for a diagnosis on here!

I agree she needs to be seen by a vet!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

this is my first time breeding mice, with where it is and the size of her yes i did think it was a baby


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

But surely it's common sense breeding ANYTHING....... If you thought it was a baby that was stuck, still reason to go to the vet, because that will eventually kill her and all of her unborn babies.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i didnt think it was a stuck baby, but yes i did think it was a baby, i thought all the babies had moved and this 1 had been pushed down here but it would go back when they all moved again


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> i didnt think it was a stuck baby, but yes i did think it was a baby, i thought all the babies had moved and this 1 had been pushed down here but it would go back when they all moved again


Err.... that's rather like thinking that a human baby's head will make a bulge on mum's buttcheek before being born.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

I assume now you know what it is you will be phoning around vets to get her seen today or tomorrow ( there will be some vets open tomorrow with limited hours )


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

there are no vets open around my way during the day today or tomoro, all that we have is the emergency night service that is £97.24 per animal (i know this as i has to take my skunk down when he had a bad prolapse)


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

And, without wanting to sound callous, are you not willing to pay that for the mouse?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

its not that, i would if i had the money as i love all my animals to bits and hate seeing any of them in pain but i just dont have the money,


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Presumably not!

All vets have emergency cover of some kind, even if it's through another 24 hour practice.

I just paid £70 a few weeks ago for a limping rat on a Sunday at my vet's covering practice. I was at my vets last Thursday, different rat, exactly the same problem - cost me £12, but I wouldn't have left the first rat another day in case he was in pain.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> its not that, i would if i had the money as i love all my animals to bits and hate seeing any of them in pain but i just dont have the money,


If you don't have the money to provide veterinary care for your animals, then surely you should re-think the number of animals you are keeping??

How are you going to pay back all the refunds you're promising for returned pups on your website?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

That's the problem though. I don't have enough money to warrant breeding or keeping any more animals than I currently do. I've only got Willit and some rats but in the last month have paid out over £500 in various vets' fees which, while covered by insurance, still had to be paid for in the first place. While I completely sympathise with the issues concerning having to pay out for animals, I would question whether anyone should continue to breed creatures and bring new ones into the world if they were unable to account for instances such as emergency vet treatment.


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

feorag said:


> If you don't have the money to provide veterinary care for your animals, then surely you should re-think the number of animals you are keeping??



^^ Exactly.

Especially since a number of the animals you have are due bigger enclosures as well.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i can afford a refund, that is not almost £100, i knew people would kick off what i said that i dont have the money. on tuesday when the vets are open as normal then yes i can afford it but not at the moment


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

PresqueVu said:


> ^^ Exactly.
> 
> Especially since a number of the animals you have are due bigger enclosures as well.


 
i have brought and paid for the new enclosers, why do you think i am skint


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

If you dont have the money to pay for vet care then really you should not be breeding etc.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

credit card?


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

and surely you would have been sensible and have kept some money back in case of vet bills - this should all have been in place before u took in any animals - you should have had the right sized enclosures before you took them on and should have had a bit of money put aside for vet bills before taking them as well.
This could cost the mouse and all the babies their lives.


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

The problem is that waiting until Tuesday, for a cheaper option, is convenient for _you_ and not the animal in question. If an animal requires veterinary care before then then it's your duty to provide it with that, irrespective of whether you can afford it or not. If you cannot afford it then you should not have animals to begin with. I'm not having a go at you personally, I'm speaking generally. Like I said, I would only ever have animals that I was able to provide veterinary care for regardless of what time of day it was. If any of my pets, regardless of whether it was a dog or a mouse became ill and needed treatment then I believe I should be able to provide that. If I couldn't, then I would completely reassess having pets, and I certainly would not consider adding to my brood.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i dont do credit cards as i would always be in debt, 

SHADOWZ: have you never been caught short, so to speak. i brought these mice last sunday, on the following tuesday when i got paid, i paid all my bills and i brought new enclosers for all my mice as the ones had had were too small, 

so that took up all my money, then a couple of days back i notice this lump and think its nothing but i post on the forums just in case. so please tell me how i am ment to pay for the vet when i dont get paid again until tuesday


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

maybe a little self control on all fronts is what is needed.
why not have a card for emnergancies like this but DO NOT allow yourself to spend it on anyhting else!


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

But why are you breeding more? I don't understand. Again, don't interpret this as me attacking you, I'm genuinely intrigued as to why anyone would continue to bring more animals into their lives if they cannot afford to pay for the ones they have. And paying for them doesn't involve the mere payment of vet's bills on convenient days - it's being prepared for any eventuality, which - as this thread has proven - can, and does, occur.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have had enough with this thread now, i have said my part and defended myself, now if this mouse was ment for feeder food and not a pet then i am sure that it would have been put in the co2 chamber by now and none of you would have said anything


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> maybe a little self control on all fronts is what is needed.
> why not have a card for emnergancies like this but DO NOT allow yourself to spend it on anyhting else!


Yep - that's exactly what I do. I've got a credit card that I never take out with me but keep in a drawer in case of an emergency. I had to use it when Willit had to have bloods taken which cost around £300 in January. I've since paid it off once the insurance claim came through. 

Animals - regardless of their size or type - can be expensive (if looked after properly) and I simply cannot comprehend this not being considered.


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> i dont do credit cards as i would always be in debt


Then be in debt, just don't take on any more animals or breed more to make the situation worse - so it stays manageable. I know credit cards are a bit unnerving, I've resisted one for ages, but they exist for a reason.

I just got a credit card so I could get a £100 op for a gerbil, and get a vivarium custom built for my dormice (they actually already had enough space, but I wanted to give them more). I'm not a big fan of having that debt but the alternative would be to let a pet die that I am in a position to help.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

No I honestly have never been caught short so that I could not provide vet treatment as I put aside every single week and make sure I have a nice amount saved before I take on any animal.
I dont understand why you are breeding more when you cant afford the ones already in your care. 
Its cruelty that this mouse wont get treatment


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i have had enough with this thread now, i have said my part and defended myself, now if this mouse was ment for feeder food and not a pet then i am sure that it would have been put in the co2 chamber by now and none of you would have said anything


But it isn't, so you can't compare.

If you had bills to pay then you shouldn't have brought in any more animals - particularly pregnant ones - until you had money back in your account, to cover any health problems.

Because you've just proven that it doesn't work - if your mouse is in pain with whatever is wrong with her, she's been suffering that for 3 days now and has another 2 days to wait for any kind of help - that's not the way anyone should be treating their pets and you've already clarified that she is a pet - not a feeder.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> so please tell me how i am ment to pay for the vet when i dont get paid again until tuesday


ask the vet to accept payment at a later date, the vast majority of vets will do this (they get the money eventually, waiting a few days is no problem to them). especially those who operate emergency or out of hours clinincs, as owners dont always have the money available at the time.

it helps if you know your vets, iv run up bills with mine before now that have had to be paid at a later date, he knows il pay it as soon as i can, and ultimately hes an animal lover (hence the whole vet career thing), hes not going to let an animal suffer because i havnt got the funds at that precice moment.

without wishing to sound harsh, the mouse cant take itself to the vets, it cant treat itself, it cant relieve its own pain. when you take on an animal the responsibility for its welfare is on your shoulders, noone elses. if you dont take an animal to the vets for whatever reason, and the worst happens, then that is your responsibility aswell.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i didnt say i was breeding anymore as yet, i brought 7 fancy mice 2 of which were pregnant and 1 maybe pregnant, the boys are kept in seperate tanks so that the only babies are one that i have planned.

none of the vets around here will take payment at a later date, it all has to be full payment at time of treatment. the lump does not seem to be bothering her. she is still just as active as she was before i brought her


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

But with 3 possible litters that will turn into 30+ mice in total that you cant afford vet bills for


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

Shadowz said:


> But with 3 possible litters that will turn into 30+ mice in total that you cant afford vet bills for


Plus the potential litters from the 1:5 Zebra mice and 1:2 APDs...


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Asking the vets for payment options is a definite option. I know of a girl whose malamute was run over. He (stupidly) wasn't insured and required an emergency operation for a broken pelvis. It amounted to thousands and they're paying it back monthly. Granted, not every vet will do this, but it's worth a shot if something is suffering. I simply do not know how anyone can stand by and witness an animal in pain that is in their care and responsibility and not do anything about it. I'd be ringing every vet possible trying to sort it. I'd ring every friend to borrow money, if needs be. Pride and convenience comes far below any animal suffering in my world.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

most of the babies from the ltter i have at the mo have been sold, so i personally dont see how that would be a problem


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

Can you not find a vet that can allow you to pay off the bill when you get money through? Are there no vets that would be considerate enough to do such a thing in an emergency near you? 

I don't know if England has PDSA but are you not eligible for cheaper treatments or something with them or a similar scheme? 

I would be ringing every vet i could right now and trying to bargain what i could, would absolutely hate to see my pet suffering regardless what species it is. I picture it happening to me and, a lump poking out my stomach seems like it would be really sore, uncomfortable and probably alot of a hindrance


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Exactly. Time spent creating threads whereby largely non-professionals can cast their opinions, advice, and often condemnation could be time spent ringing vets, contacting friends and family members, trying to get money and options sorted.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

And you say all of the potential babies have homes lined up............ What about the difficult to home males? What happens when you have three buck heavy litters? Are you prepared to keep all of those and provide vet treatment if and when needed to 30+ smelly male mice that have to be housed separately?


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

When I used the emergency vet. We rushed there, and he rushed there from home, and he didn't even mention any money when we first got there. They treated him best he could and then took him home with him to keep an eye on him over night, he rang us up night and morning to tell us how he was doing, and never once asked for his payment. I just went in a few days later and paid. Though he was a kitty in a very bad state, and my vet is fantastic. I kind of thought any vet would wait 2 days though...


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

em_40 said:


> I kind of thought any vet would wait 2 days though...


any vet iv met (even the ones i havnt liked much) would wait 2 days, its not like your walking in saying 'il pay it off when i remember', mine has waited a month for payment off me before now (when i used to be paid monthly). dont forget they have all your details, so if you dont pay eventually they know where to find you :whistling2::lol2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

They only have your correct details if you give them them!
Some people do not give correct details or even go back to pay their bills. In certain areas the vets are hainv got be pretty rough and advise the owners to go to the RSPCA or some similar charity before agreeing to to see the animal.
Also I suppose if the vet knows and owner, or that owner already owes the vet, then he may refuse payment until prevous bills are paid. They can't go around just treating animals no matter what or they would have everyone asking to 'pay later' when most mean 'pay never'.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I think all vets should treat animals in distress. One in our area treats them but if the owner cant afford to pay they have the animal signed over to them and then ask animal rescues to take the animal in. The one we use say that treating the animal is their priority and will let people pay over time if they are already a client. I have a 30 day account due to our sanctuary using the same one so I never need to worry about finding immediate cash to cover an emergency call out and Ive had lots of them.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I suppose; I've never experienced a vet not willing to wait a few days, but I've never had the reputation of being someone who won't pay either. Maybe if you turned up at a completely new vet they wouldn't be so trusting but when you've been on the records ages and don't have any outstanding debts with them? She said that she has been there before with a skunk, I assume she paid. Maybe I am wrong


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i said that i wasnt going to take part in this thread anymore but i must say, i have used the same vet for the last 3 years of my dog, the 2 cats i had and my skunk, before that my mum used them for 10 years with her dogs before we moved out of the area, only i moved back, they have always had a full payment at time of treatment policy


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

sounds like for your circumstances, you need to find a different vet for emergencies then - one willing to be more flexible


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

Was that for emergencies though? My vet wouldn't "treat now pay later" unless it was an emergency. 

How is mouse doing today anyway? XD


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

this is all the time, the vets will not treat an animal unless you have the money to pay for it.

she is doing fine. i have now spoken to a vet and quite a few breeders, all of them have said for me to keep a close eye on her but all the time she is active, eatinga nd drinking i shouldnt worry too much, as the lump is soft and it is to the side of her genitals she can give birth fine.


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## jen2010 (Mar 18, 2010)

guessing its a tumour,im pretty sure chase let you settle up after treatment...i think you should be careful not to bite off more than you can chew,stick to one thing at a time an not rush into breeding all these animals you keep posting wanted threads for....not having a go ..:whistling2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I think all vets should treat animals in distress. One in our area treats them but if the owner cant afford to pay they have the animal signed over to them and then ask animal rescues to take the animal in. The one we use say that treating the animal is their priority and will let people pay over time if they are already a client. I have a 30 day account due to our sanctuary using the same one so I never need to worry about finding immediate cash to cover an emergency call out and Ive had lots of them.


That is what a lot of vets will do but most owners don't want to sign them over, considering it could be an emergency and lifesaving I know that's selfish but there you go!, it's the way it in some areas though.
I'm lucky with both my vets, I use different ones for the domestics and the horses, they take monthly payments from me if it's a lot of money!
I've never beenin credit now for about 2 years..if I won the lottery I'd make sure they had a good slice in appreciation for the care they have given my animals though.



em_40 said:


> I suppose; I've never experienced a vet not willing to wait a few days, but I've never had the reputation of being someone who won't pay either. Maybe if you turned up at a completely new vet they wouldn't be so trusting but when you've been on the records ages and don't have any outstanding debts with them? She said that she has been there before with a skunk, I assume she paid. Maybe I am wrong


In some areas vets have to be really careful though. Of course if you are a regular client and it's a real emergency I would think that, if they did trust you, they might 'make and exception' once or twice. If you then prove to pay they may be a little lenient in future.
It's the same everywhere 'give them an inch and they will take a mile' that goes for animal owners as well.




jen2010 said:


> guessing its a tumour,im pretty sure chase let you settle up after treatment...i think you should be careful not to bite off more than you can chew,stick to one thing at a time an not rush into breeding all these animals you keep posting wanted threads for....not having a go ..:whistling2:


This has been said so many times............:bash:

I might bug some people now but I'm going to be honest.......Most breeders of rodents would leave this mouse and see how she got on. If she became stressed or was unable to give birth they would euthanise her themselves. I would euthanise her if she seemed distressed but I'm not a 'pet' breeder really even though 99% of my mice go to pet homes now.

I know this is not what some owners want to hear but culling goes on in most rodent breeding programmes unless it's pet owners who decide to breed the odd litter to have more for themselves. One or two litters are easy to find homes for but if you have 4-6 litters on the go at one time then at least the males are going to be hard to home.

I think the issue here is that rosanna is saying she is just a pet breeder and that makes a difference I feel among the animal lovers. Most now accept that there are breeders who cull......most show breeders cull more than feeder breeders I've found!
It just isn't acceptable to leave the mouse if she is in pain and distress however you treat the situation!


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

If the mouse does seem to be better, or coping okay, then that's all well and good but I think all the original points made in this thread about the cost of pet care and having the ability to pay for emergency treatment still stands. This is one instance but it certainly won't be the last, especially if you continue to amass creatures in the way that you are. I think you've been offered a lot of constructive advice, particularly in regards to covering any potential vet bills, and while these may not seem to stand in regards to this one instance, in my humble opinion if I were you I would refrain from adding to your collection of pets and being able to wholly care properly for the ones you've got. Because the more you have, the more likelihood the possibility of one of them requiring emergency treatment - treatment that can end up being a lot more than £97! 

Please refrain from taking the comments in this thread as unnecessary personal attacks - they're not. They're from concerned people who simply can't comprehend someone letting an animal suffer if it clearly requires urgent treatment, which, judging by some of the descriptions of the situation, clearly pointed towards that. 

Glad to hear that she is eating and seemingly doing a bit better.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

However, you have to bear in mind that mice are prey animals and prey animals don't show pain as it makes them vulnerable.

I found a lump in one of my rat's groins late on evening that I wasn't sure was a tumour or an abscess, but it was big!!! I took him to the vets first thing the next morning, by which time it was slightly bigger than a Malteser and it was an abscess ! 

Having had an abscess in my bicep muscle I can tell you I was in absolute agony that even codeine, paracetamol and pethadine in rotation wouldn't relieve, so you can't tell me that that that abscess wasn't causing him any pain, but he didn't show it and was eating and moving around fine.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree Eileen they hide the pain very well but most 'experienced' rodent keepers know this and will act accordingly.

Even whilst hiding the amount of pain and distress the rodent is in they do act differently to their normal behaviour when in pain.....or at least I can see that mine do but I've had rodents for many years and I am aware of their ability to appear almost fine in most situations.

This soft lump is probably a tumour, as has been said, the mouse will probably give birth, wean the litter and then go downhill very quickly and either die or be euthanised in some way. It's sad but I doubt it's going to the vet any time soon and the owner will want the litter more than she cares for the health or suffering of the mother!

If she were mine I'd gauge the extent of her pain and probably euthanise before the litter were born to save her the suffering as there is no way a tumour in her groin is going to be able to be operated on whilst pregnant anyway!
If she is in any amount of pain she could kill the babies once they are born as well. Of course if it's not a tumour there is a possibilty that the doe could birth normally and live quite a while afterwards.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i never said she went downhill at any point, she has always ate, drank and been active. she is nesting and getting ready to give birth. at no point have i said the litter is more important than the mouse its self. i arrange to buy this mouse 2 weeks before i picked her up and found out she was pregnant. she is a beautiful mouse and she is NOT in pain


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

How can you say that? Are you really so confident to make such a sweeping statement, when all statistics say that prey animals can mask problems and not show pain.

At times your naivety is simply amazing.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

would she be happy for me to touch it and play about with it if she was in pain, i think not. not as i have said i have spoken to a vet and a few breeders who have been breeding mice for over 20 yrs and they have all said for me just to keep an eye on it, it has not got any bigger at all in fact it seems to be starting to get smaller. all i wanted to know was if this lump would stop her giving birth and the answer from a vet and breeders has been NO it wont stop her. if it looks as if it has got bigger then i need to get it checked out, until then it is fine. its not doing her any harm or effecting her in any way and she is not taking any notice of it


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And I could touch and examine the abscess my rat had and he was takng no notice of it either, which is why I thought it was a tumour at first, but I wasn't prepared to leave him days to find out for sure or get treatment for him.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> would she be happy for me to touch it and play about with it if she was in pain, i think not. not as i have said i have spoken to a vet and a few breeders who have been breeding mice for over 20 yrs and they have all said for me just to keep an eye on it, it has not got any bigger at all in fact it seems to be starting to get smaller.


 
did you not read this part, what experiance do you have, these breeders have been breeding for over 20 yrs and i have even had a vet tell me the same, now im sorry, i dont know what experiance you have but i think i would prefere to listen to breeders with over 20 yrs experiance and a vet


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i never said she went downhill at any point, she has always ate, drank and been active. she is nesting and getting ready to give birth. at no point have i said the litter is more important than the mouse its self. i arrange to buy this mouse 2 weeks before i picked her up and found out she was pregnant. she is a beautiful mouse and she is NOT in pain


I didn't say you said she was going downhill but if this is a tumour that is the way it will go..hopefully it's not a tumour and everything will be fine. Rodents are the best at hiding they are ill and unless you are a very experienced keeper, and know this particular mouse, you wouldn't be able to tell whether she was in pain or not.
It has nothing to do with how long you waited for the mouse, how much you wanted her or indeed whether she is the most beautiful or ugliest mouse on the planet people are concerned that she is/ may be in pain.
Pesonally I'd do as you are but I'd have more idea as to whether she was in pain and if I deemed her in pain then I would euthanise before the litter were born!



rosanna123 said:


> did you not read this part, what experiance do you have, these breeders have been breeding for over 20 yrs and i have even had a vet tell me the same, now im sorry, i dont know what experiance you have but i think i would prefere to listen to breeders with over 20 yrs experiance and a vet


Who have you been asking?
I've given my opinion on the thread and I've got in excess of 20 years experience, on and off, I know I can still make mistakes and I think I still have a lot to learn!
Vets in my opinion usually know very little about rodents and whats more you are not going to be lining their pockets so would tell you whatever you wanted to hear, it was probably the receptionist giving advice, unless they had seen the mouse in question no one can give you difinitive advice no matter who the heck they are....me included!

Not being a vet myself I owuld say unless it was an abcess there is little likelihood of it getting smaller, it may 'appear' smaller, as her stomach grows with the pregnancy though. If it were an abcess then there would be a wound where it had ruptured to expel the infection so you would see that.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

it wasnt ment at you. it was ment at the other person who was saying that i am only keeping her alive to have her litter as that is more important to me than she is, as i said no, it isnt. i never even new she was pregnant until i picked her up


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

rosanna123 said:


> it wasnt ment at you. it was ment at the other person who was saying that i am only keeping her alive to have her litter as that is more important to me than she is, as i said no, it isnt. i never even new she was pregnant until i picked her up


It certainly sounds like all you care about is the babies when you say stuff like this -


rosanna123 said:


> . all i wanted to know was if this lump would stop her giving birth and the answer from a vet and breeders has been NO it wont stop her.


Are you seriously not bothered that whatever this is could be killing her?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

she is booked into the vets tomoro OK, the vet has already told me not to worry, she will be fine to have her litter. no matter how bad this sounds i dont care if the litter survies as long as she is ok. as i have tried saying so many times. i brought these mice expecting to breed when i felt ready to. as it turns out 2 of the mice i brought were heaverly pregnant and i have just found out that another 1 is.


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

I hope the person you bought them from is offering you advice? Has she got her internet back yet so you at least know their ages?

I don't know if this is standard practice in some mouse circles - but the mice and rat people I know personally would be pretty horrified at the idea of selling a pregnant doe to someone without the knowledge, money or experience to deal with it. That is if anyone of them sold their mice pregnant, which I don't believe they do.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

no, she hasnt got her internet back yet or i would be talking to her. i do have the money to deal with her but there is 2 problems. the money that i have is in my daughters bank accounts (which i have to go into the bank to draw out) and if i wasnt to do this then i get paid tomoro, so no matter what i would have to wait until tomoro. 

you lot like to say that i dont have the money to keep my animals healthy when i have said that i do i was just caught short at the wrong time. 

and as for her selling me a pregnant doe when i dont have the knowledge, money or experiance, well all i have to say to that is I DO HAVE THE MONEY, i may not have experiance BUT EVERYONE HAS TO LEARN that is how you get experiance, and knowledge, well i have been almost constantly reading up about mice (everything to do with them, all diffrent species) for the last 6 months. so i think that i know quite a bit


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

but, you don't have the money...if you DID, this thread wouldn't be up and running now would it?

but i understand your predicament... my suggestion? don't breed anything else, buy anyhting else or do anyhting else until you get a litle in reserve just for times like this.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have just said that i have money in reserve, i have £300 sitting in my kids bank accounts that i can use, but i only have access to it when the banks are open


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

And with all this going on you are already asking for more mice in the classified section


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

what is the problem with that, i CAN afford them, i care for them, what is the problem

so i have a mouse with a lump who has been kept seperate since the day i got her due to being pregnant, the same as my texel girl has been kept seperate for the same reason. does this mean i should never buy another mouse again, my dog had a stroke, does this mean i should never have another dog. 4 years ago one of my horses was put down for having grass sickness does this mean i should never have another horse. i dont see what you are getting at


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## PresqueVu (Jul 27, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> what is the problem with that, i CAN afford them


Not when they need help, as this thread proves.

The point is that you haven't got the money available to use for emergencies - and even if that does really on banks being open, you can't tell an animal not to suffer or be in pain on certain days, they pretty much are always ill at the most inconvenient time!

And if you cannot give them the care/attention WHEN they need it, not days after, then now is most definately not the time to get more pets.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

is nobody listening to me. i have been told by a vet and breeders not to worry too much about it and so i havent. but due to you lot going on and on and on and on that it is a tumour and this and that, she is going down the vets tomoro. and i am so gonna laugh tomoro when i have a £30 vet bill (examination fee) instead of a £100 emergency bill, just to find out that it is just scar tissue (as she does have some scars from being in with a agressive male before i got her) or something that is no problem. i am gonna laugh so much to know that the vet and breeders that i spoke to were right and you lot were wrong, all you lot seem to ever want to do is worry, upset and have ago at people over what they are doing


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## Lucy1012 (Mar 21, 2011)

I can't view the photos, but if the lump is not weeping, bleeding or irritating the mouse in any way, hindering her walking, hygiene needs, or making her act lethargic, i see no reason to seek out emergency treatment, as it is not an emergency. As long as the mouse is comfortable a day or so will no do any harm.. hope she feels better soon


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Oh how immature. So you're going to laugh at people offering you constructive advice in regards to YOUR animal that YOU'VE been asking for opinions on? If you were so damn confident that it wasn't in pain or suffering then why the hell did you start this thread in the first place? 

The fact is - you've got an animal that has an ailment. At times, you've made it very apparent that this ailment seemingly requires urgent treatment. By your own admission you don't have the money to afford to give it this and were therefore having to wait until Tuesday so that it was convenient for you, not your animal that is questionably suffering and requiring attention. Regardless of this, people have persevered and offered assistance in regards to you getting help from vets that would potentially offer payment plans, etc. yet you've disputed all of this and claim to have definitive evidence that your mouse is not in pain even though numerous people have pointed towards there being evidence that prey animals are renowned for hiding pain and suffering. Again, you've gone against this and are sticking to your word. 

I honestly do hope that the mouse is better, as you've claimed, but the sheer ignorance and pigheadedness you've shown in regards to continuing to ask relentless questions about your animals' wellbeing all the while admitting that you, at times, don't have the funds to be able to offer them basic levels of veterinary attention is astounding. People have been nothing less than patient but you've taken things as personal attacks. You should not be adding to your animals when seemingly you are very naive as to their basic wellbeing. Again, I don't mean this to sound as a personal attack on your character, rather your suitability and knowledge of breeding and maintaining mass numbers of animals that are dependent on you for their welfare. It isn't acceptable, and to now - as you are - claim that you're seemingly preoccupied with laughing in the face of people that have taken the time to offer you help and advice as opposed to simply being grateful that your animal hasn't continued to suffer, or die, from negligence is beyond belief. 

Like I said, I really do hope that, as you claim, it is seemingly getting better, or not suffering to the degree that your previous posts/pictures would suggest, but I would further iterate that you refrain from adding to your brood of animals if you're not able to account or deal with situations like this that you will inevitably find yourself in.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i had 2 pregnant mice, 1 gave birth yesterday. my other pregnant female is lot bigger than the one that gave birth, i expected her to give birth first but here we are almost a week on from buying her and all she has done is make a nest, i have just checked her over. i think i can see babies moving but im not sure. she has a lump on her rear end, it is below and to the size of her genetails it is about the size of a babies head, could this be a baby pushing on her or could it be something else, i never noticed it for the first couple of days of having her (its in a place that i would have seen it) she has now had it for the last 2 days, if it is not a baby would ths effect her giving birth.
> 
> here is a pic to show how big she is, sorry i dont have any pics of the lump
> 
> ...


 
once again i have to say that i never said she was in pain i merly wanted to know that due to where the lump is, would this affect her giving birth, and thanks to people on other forums i now have the answer that no it wont effect her giving birth or raiseing her litter. 

if you can find where i have said that she is in pain then please do show me?

i have quoted my first post to show that i only asked if the lump would affect her giving birth


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