# Can Bailiffs Take Your Pets?



## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

My parents have been threatened with bailiffs coming to our house to take goods amounting to around £600. We were just wondering if they can take our animals if it does result in the bailiffs coming to the house (which hopefully it will not).

We have 2 ragdolls, only one with papers. 2 ragdoll crosses. All of the cats are fixed so could not be used for show anyway.

We have two excellent pedigree labs but one is 12 and the other is 10. The 12 year old is fixed.

We have two rabbits which i can not see them touching.

We also have a large sturgeon and many large koi carp and a few small ones.

Have they a right to take them?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

i have seen on programs baliffs taking animals, but the tv does lie somtimes so i cannot help, sorry.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

does fixed mean neutered? out of interest why cant animals be used for show if theyre neutered? <presumin thats what you mean>

as far as im aware animals cannot be taken by bailiffs as theyre not comodities <sp> dont think theyre classed as possessions


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

no, not live stock. only things they can sell at auction (for next to nothing)

just tell baliffs that the animals dont belong to the person they are chasing for the debt. they cant touch them that way anyway!

also, dont let them in, they have no right to come in without a warrent, if you let them in you give them a right to asses your goods and their value


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

yes they can be


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

there's a programme that's on Sky occasionally about people who spend too much and it shows what they need to do to cut back and what happens if they don't.
The bailiffs will come in and empty the house of anything they can sell while the owners watch it on film, there was one episode where they did take the expensive cat.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

dax said:


> no, not live stock. only things they can sell at auction (for next to nothing)
> 
> just tell baliffs that the animals dont belong to the person they are chasing for the debt. they cant touch them that way anyway!
> 
> also, dont let them in, they have no right to come in without a warrent, if you let them in you give them a right to asses your goods and their value


they can take animals spayed or not


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

dax said:


> also, dont let them in, they have no right to come in without a warrent, if you let them in you give them a right to asses your goods and their value


depends what the debt is.


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

No they can't they can take anything but them.


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

Yeah fixed means neutured. 

I've just been told that cats can not be shown if they have been done? Is this incorrect?

Thanks for the comments guys


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

And the debt is from advertising in the thomson local i think.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

my sis had to sign her dog over to a family member so she didnt get taken wen she went bankrupt


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Do you know when they are coming? Can someone not look after them for a while for you?


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

thats what i meant, 

we took a guy who owed us 400k, took his house, stables, all tack and equipment but couldnt touch his horses?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

dax said:


> thats what i meant,
> 
> we took a guy who owed us 400k, took his house, stables, all tack and equipment but couldnt touch his horses?


 
so wat happened to them?


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

didnt come to that thankfully, he got the cash together on final day

we had a walk in possession but for some reason the horses weren`t part of it!

maybe its the type of warrent?


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> my sis had to sign her dog over to a family member so she didnt get taken wen she went bankrupt


bankruptsy is different than a bailiff coming to get stuff out your house for a debt owed. Animals arent a neccessity so if you go bankrupt you are basically told what you can and cant have and your incomings/outgoings strictly monitored. she would have more than likely had to sign it over because it wasnt a neccessity, not cos she owed money to a bailiff. bailiffs im certain cant take living things as payment


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

We're not sure when they are coming, and we have nobody to take care of them, our neighbour probably would take the dogs. But nobody in the family or neighbours likes cats. And they are indoor and do cause quite a bit of damage to the furniture :/ and one has toilet trouble and rarely goes in his tray.

And the fish are impossible to move.


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## dexnos (Mar 10, 2008)

Unfortunatly they can take anything if you let them into your house, however *without a court order they have no legal right to enter your house. They must obtain that first before they enter.*

They can only take what belongs to you parents but they would have to prove the animals weren't theres

The first time they come they take an inventory , then give u so many days etc to settle the account.

If u can get to the CAB ASAP. 

Contact the people the money is owed to and agree to pay e.g £10 per month, this can always be lowered once the bailiffs are off thier backs.

Move the animal papers out of the house.

Do u have friends who can say they are theres? u are minding them while they get settled etc. e.g 

There is a Brilliant organisation called C.A.P PLEASE DONT be put of by the title. If you pm/email me I'll get u the details. They will stop the bailiffs, the interest, doorstep collections etc, etc

They dont really like to take animals but they can do it .


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

dexnos said:


> Unfortunatly they can take anything if you let them into your house, however *without a court order they have no legal right to enter your house. They must obtain that first before they enter.*
> 
> They can only take what belongs to you parents but they would have to prove the animals weren't theres
> 
> ...


thank you and that was whai was meaning


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

Thank you for that.

What is annoying is my parents have just sent them a letter explaining the financial situation along with a £15 token payment and they have informed them that they are currently discussing the financial situation with a third party who will be in contact shortly to deal with the situation.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

They legally can take animals but it would be a very rare situation where they would choose too.

In regards to neutered animals, most, if not all animals that are neutered are not allowed to be entered into a show. So it is not just Cats. This is partly because the whole idea of a show is to praise animals with excellent pedigrees and promote working towards a standard through reputable breeding. Secondly, most standards state that in males the genitals must be fully intact. Obviously in females nobody would know.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

mattm said:


> They legally can take animals but it would be a very rare situation where they would choose too.
> 
> In regards to neutered animals, most, if not all animals that are neutered are not allowed to be entered into a show. So it is not just Cats. This is partly because the whole idea of a show is to praise animals with excellent pedigrees and promote working towards a standard through reputable breeding. Secondly, most standards state that in males the genitals must be fully intact. Obviously in females nobody would know.


ta for that!

as for the bailiff thing, best person to ask is azazelle or whatever her name is, i always get it wrong :lol2: ill have to go look


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

shiro_ookami said:


> Thank you for that.
> 
> What is annoying is my parents have just sent them a letter explaining the financial situation along with a £15 token payment and they have informed them that they are currently discussing the financial situation with a third party who will be in contact shortly to deal with the situation.


your parents should be able to come to a payment agreement, although there will be added costs for the bailiffs.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

you should advise your parents to enter into an iva, its not bankrupcy or anything. its active from the day they take it out so no baliffs etc can bother them.


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

That is what my parents are doing at the moment (the IVA). They are just working out the last of the paper work right now as we speak. The letter that they sent to the company was a copy of what the IVA told them to say.

And the token gesture with the letter was supposed to stop the threat of bailiffs.


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

So by rights the company should not be able to threaten us with bailiffs, as they are in the final stages of the IVA, just to give the IVA company written permission to contact the people they owe debt to.


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## dexnos (Mar 10, 2008)

There are 4 groups of items which can not be taken by bailifts.

Anything on HP, lease or rental
Anything required to ensure a reasonable quality of life this includes Cooker, Fridge, bed, bedding and cloths
Childrens items, *Anything in your childs bedroom* or anything that obviously belongs to a childs
Essential tools of the trade. Any items that is required for you to carrout your business/employment if your a joiner they can not take your tools Vans and cars are not automatically classed as essential tools of the trade you would have to argue this in court.

*Bailifts are not legally allowed to entre your property unless its through an open window or door. When they knock on just dont let them in. If they try barging past you or use deception to entre your property this is classed as Burglary and will result in the bailift loosing his license.

DO NOT sign anything from the bailift You can use reasonable force to remove a bailift from your property.*


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## LisaD (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm not sure if my comment will help, or not...

One of the ponies I own was seized by bailiffs from his previous owners followins the court procedure to seize possesions... there were 7 horses seized in total, and they were given the opportunity to buy the horses back but they only took the bigger ones and left 3 small ones that were destined for the meat man :-( I guess lucky for My man, I took him on, my cousin and her friend had the other 2.

L x


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## dexnos (Mar 10, 2008)

Have u had a formal letter saying the bailiffs are coming or are they saying if you dont pay they will send the bailiffs. If the latter they are bullying u. The £15 token has to be acknowledged. Hang in there they will be ok.

have there been any doorstep collectors, if not they should come first. Dont let them bully u say all u can afford is £5 per month. Once u start paying the money , no matter how long it takes to pay off , its being paid .The bailiffs will steer clear


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

We had a phone call saying that the bailiffs are on the way and we can contact the compay and they may be able to stop them coming out.


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

And we have had no doorstep collectors either :/


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

shiro_ookami said:


> I've just been told that cats can not be shown if they have been done? Is this incorrect?





mattm said:


> In regards to neutered animals, most, if not all animals that are neutered are not allowed to be entered into a show. So it is not just Cats. This is partly because the whole idea of a show is to praise animals with excellent pedigrees and promote working towards a standard through reputable breeding. Secondly, most standards state that in males the genitals must be fully intact. Obviously in females nobody would know.


You've got that a bit wrong! The whole idea of a show is that people are breeding an animal to a standard of points. The closer to the standard of points, the better the animal (certainly in the dog and cat world, not sure about fur & feather, but can't see that it would be any different) so to a degree it's nothing to do praising animals with excellent pedigrees, because champions can breed poor quality and poor quality can breed champions, that's the nature of animal breeding.

When I was showing dogs way back in the 70s you could show neutered bitches if they'd a litter registered at the K.Club, but you couldn't show neutered dogs.

In cats, however, you've always been able to show neuters in the same way as entire cats and you can also show non-pedigree cats, which don't have standard of points. You just don't show the entire cats against the neutered ones, they are shown in different sections.

I hope you can work something out Shiroo with regard to the animals - I would just say they weren't worth any money as they were all cross breeds without pedigrees.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Meko said:


> there's a programme that's on Sky occasionally about people who spend too much and it shows what they need to do to cut back and what happens if they don't.
> The bailiffs will come in and empty the house of anything they can sell while the owners watch it on film, there was one episode where they did take the expensive cat.


 That was just for telly. I know a bailiff and asked him once about what can be taken. He said that since baliffs have no means of looking after the animals or selling to responsible homes, they don't take animals. They would leave themselves open to a charge of causing fear and distress to the animal. So whatever you saw on that telly programme which is made to shock the person in debt, they can't take pets.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

they can actually take pets although the government published a statement which included a commitment to have domestic pets exempt from seizure.. dunno if it's been passed yet.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/pdf-sp-pbots-outcomesexfinal.pdf


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

But why can't you show neutered animals? What's the difference? Apart from the obvious :lol2:



feorag said:


> You've got that a bit wrong! The whole idea of a show is that people are breeding an animal to a standard of points. The closer to the standard of points, the better the animal (certainly in the dog and cat world, not sure about fur & feather, but can't see that it would be any different) so to a degree it's nothing to do praising animals with excellent pedigrees, because champions can breed poor quality and poor quality can breed champions, that's the nature of animal breeding.
> 
> When I was showing dogs way back in the 70s you could show neutered bitches if they'd a litter registered at the K.Club, but you couldn't show neutered dogs.
> 
> ...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> But why can't you show neutered animals? What's the difference? Apart from the obvious :lol2:


Well, like I said you can show neutered cats. 

I haven't shown dogs for 30 years, so I don't know if that's changed or not, but you couldn't show a neutered male dog at a show back then.


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2006)

Talk to the people here Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers - The Consumer Forums its helped me in the past


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

With dogs, you still cannot show neutered males. Same goes for fancy rats (unless I think for the pet section). Also Cavies and i'm pretty sure Rabbits.



> so to a degree it's nothing to do praising animals with excellent pedigrees, because champions can breed poor quality and poor quality can breed champions, that's the nature of animal breeding.


Yes I understand that - but this is not what the majority of show organizers and judges are hoping for. A champion _could_ be produced through poor lines, but A) it would be less likely and B) it is not encouraged.

Definitely in fur & feather it is about breeding an animal to a set of points - but those points are points that would assume an animal of good breeding a lineage, in most cases. At least, this is the idea.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i know someone that was in trouble money-wise,

they had a visit from the people with clipboards,
and they took all the pedigree papers and registration documents for her pedigree dogs so she couldnt re-home them, she only got them back when the debt was paid.

i was always told bailiffs can take anytihng you own with a re-sale value, ( including pedigree epts ) *except* the tools of your trade, as they cant stop you earning your wages.

and a show dog must have two fully decended vegatables of the correct texture to be shown :-0


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## leenjaidec (Jun 15, 2009)

it all depends on the balliffs as they can if its seen to be an asset as if they walked in and see a normal royal python then no but if there was a pied or a toffee then they may think otherwise its down to them what i would do is be as nice as poss to them make em a cuppa if needs be to get in their good books an not piss em off


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

mattm said:


> Yes I understand that - but this is not what the majority of show organizers and judges are hoping for. A champion _could_ be produced through poor lines, but A) it would be less likely and B) it is not encouraged. .


I can't speak for dog judges because I'm out of touch with the dog show world, similarly I've never shown fur & feather so can't comment on that.

However, I've shown and bred cats and been involved with cat shows for over 20 years and I can tell you that what a judge at a cat show is looking for is a cat that most closely resembles the breed standard of points. They don't see the cat's pedigree, so they wouldn't have a clue whether it had a good pedigree or a poor pedigree - the cat is judged purely on merit. And what is a poor pedigree?? A pedigree that isn't full of champions and grand champions? What about the new breeds that aren't allowed to compete for CCs so you can't get a champion in the pedigree? Those cats can win merits and IC's but no title to put on the pedigree.

A cat has to be shown to become a champion, not everyone shows their cats - that doesn't mean that those cats aren't good enough to win a title. So who says those cats would be less likely to win if they adhere to the SOP and who says breeders aren't encouraged to breed from those lines?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I agree with Eileen (Feorag) and Piggly.
You cant show castrated male dogs in case they had an undescended testicle as then this wouldnt show


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## laura88 (Jun 20, 2009)

what i would say is if you have kids or the OP has kids put them in there room the baliffs are not allowed to go into a childs room and take anything out of it even and if they do u can take them to court and get all the money back and new stuff i no someone who has had the baliffs after them and anything of any value they put in a childs room


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

If a baliff tried to take my pets they would not be able to walk out of my property.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> i know someone that was in trouble money-wise,
> 
> they had a visit from the people with clipboards,
> and they took all the pedigree papers and registration documents for her pedigree dogs so she couldnt re-home them, she only got them back when the debt was paid.
> ...


 taking the papers was illegal. It would also not prevent her from selling the animals since she could apply for duplicates.
Handing the papers over to 'people with clipboards' was just pain stupid. Are you saying that they were illegal money lenders or debt collectors and not bailiffs?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Jczreptiles said:


> If a baliff tried to take my pets they would not be able to walk out of my property.


and then you would end up getting arrested, going to jail and losing the pets in any case.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Iv known people to almost lose their tarantula collection due to bailiffs. Have also had a number of horses in my care and signed over to us in order to stop them being taken.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> and then you would end up getting arrested, going to jail and losing the pets in any case.


 No beacause my partner would still be there to care for them, so a prison senence would mean nothing to me. No baliff or court would ever take my pets I would move if nesessary.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

would your other half end up doing the other debt collectors as well to stop them being taken?
Somewhere along the line you'll run out of people to look after them, you'll all be in prison.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

Meko said:


> would your other half end up doing the other debt collectors as well to stop them being taken?
> Somewhere along the line you'll run out of people to look after them, you'll all be in prison.


 So if a baliff came to your house you would step aside and let them take your pets???


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

mattm said:


> With dogs, you still cannot show neutered males. Same goes for fancy rats (unless I think for the pet section). Also Cavies and i'm pretty sure Rabbits.
> 
> 
> Yes I understand that - but this is not what the majority of show organizers and judges are hoping for. A champion _could_ be produced through poor lines, but A) it would be less likely and B) it is not encouraged.
> ...


yes u can show a neutered male dog, u need a letter from ur vets stating reasons for why he was done n u get it approved thought the kennel club, they dont however approve them all, but they approved my grans basset n my german spitz. same also goes for bitches however u can not tell if a bitch has been done so people dont always say about a bitch being done in the 1st place. 

however there isnt much point showing a netured dog as judges always seem 2 place them last or not at all  which IMO is daft

however just shows how good the judges were as most didnt even notice my spitz was done he was so fluffly n i did excellent with him n ended up in BOS very often


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

did you judge not cop a feel of the wedding vegetables? my bert got his felt on the few times we took him to shows

dont think he minded tho

:blush:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> taking the papers was illegal. It would also not prevent her from selling the animals since she could apply for duplicates.
> Handing the papers over to 'people with clipboards' was just pain stupid. Are you saying that they were illegal money lenders or debt collectors and not bailiffs?


its wasnt an optional thing, especially with a lot of rather large policemen in attendance


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> did you judge not cop a feel of the wedding vegetables? my bert got his felt on the few times we took him to shows
> 
> dont think he minded tho
> 
> :blush:


I remember my Afghan always had his 'felt' when I showed him too! :lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

did he get that dreamy look in his eyes too?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Only if it was a woman :lol2: 

If it was a man he was too busy panicking - he didn't like men!!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> however there isnt much point showing a netured dog as judges always seem 2 place them last or not at all  which IMO is daft


Given that the point of a conformation show is to establish which animals of that generation are desirable as breeding stock (being as they are the closest to the breed standard) it doesn't make sense to show a neuter that CAN'T contribute genetically to future generations.

As for the bailiffs problem, we had a bailiff come to our door for a debt that was incorrectly assigned to our house number and postcode (apparently the debt collection agency was given the postcode over the phone and misheard a P as a D) ... we refused to let him in (and we were not asked for any proof that we were NOT the named person on the debt collection). But I wouldn't trust that a bailiff couldn't remove something of significant value just because it happened to have a pulse. 

Shiro, I hope your parents can get it all resolved with the IVA.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Jczreptiles said:


> So if a baliff came to your house you would step aside and let them take your pets???


If the bailiffs were going to come i wouldn't just sit there and wait. I'd contact them about a payment plan, and i'd never let bailiffs in. I definately wouldn't be stupid enough to put myself in the position where i'd end up in prison not seeing the dogs and still end up losing them to the bailiffs.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> did you judge not cop a feel of the wedding vegetables? my bert got his felt on the few times we took him to shows
> 
> dont think he minded tho
> 
> :blush:


:lol2: yes they did but simba was so fluffy they must have just thought he was either a bitch or didnt want 2 take too long having a feel :lol2:

my grans basset on the other hand as his bits are easily seen n they werent there didnt do very well even tho he was however an excellent example of the breed n brought from top kennels :gasp: he passed away a few years ago from old age


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> yes u can show a neutered male dog, u need a letter from ur vets stating reasons for why he was done n u get it approved thought the kennel club, they dont however approve them all, but they approved my grans basset n my german spitz. same also goes for bitches however u can not tell if a bitch has been done so people dont always say about a bitch being done in the 1st place.
> 
> however there isnt much point showing a netured dog as judges always seem 2 place them last or not at all  which IMO is daft
> 
> however just shows how good the judges were as most didnt even notice my spitz was done he was so fluffly n i did excellent with him n ended up in BOS very often


i have a letter from the kc saying i can show my finnish spitz bitch as she was sprayed before i had her.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Given that the point of a conformation show is to establish which animals of that generation are desirable as breeding stock (being as they are the closest to the breed standard) it doesn't make sense to show a neuter that CAN'T contribute genetically to future generations.
> 
> As for the bailiffs problem, we had a bailiff come to our door for a debt that was incorrectly assigned to our house number and postcode (apparently the debt collection agency was given the postcode over the phone and misheard a P as a D) ... we refused to let him in (and we were not asked for any proof that we were NOT the named person on the debt collection). But I wouldn't trust that a bailiff couldn't remove something of significant value just because it happened to have a pulse.
> 
> Shiro, I hope your parents can get it all resolved with the IVA.


not everyone that shows dogs has 2 breed as well, my mum buys her pups from top kennels, she cant breed her dogs as it makes her ill selling the pups coz she worries so much n cant bare 2 see them leave (that why she kept nealy all of the few litters she had. plus just because a dog has won under one judge other judges may not place them its all down 2 what the individual likes, ie colours etc. plus off spring dont always come out as good as the parents: victory:


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

linda.t said:


> i have a letter from the kc saying i can show my finnish spitz bitch as she was sprayed before i had her.


cool didnt know they would accept that reason, i thought it was only medical reasons, u learn sumet new everyday :no1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> plus off spring dont always come out as good as the parents: victory:


Precisely my point earlier! Just cos you've got a champion dam and sire doesn't mean the any of the progeny will make champion!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

feorag said:


> Precisely my point earlier! Just cos you've got a champion dam and sire doesn't mean the any of the progeny will make champion!


True, but if you have a choice between:

2 cats/dogs/rats that, through repeated conformation shows, have shown they are excellent examples of the breed or variety, as close as possible to the idealised "breed standard" 

or

2 cats/dogs/rats that have not been shown for conformation and therefore have not been matched against the breed standards for their variety

Which are you more likely to pick as your breeding stock if you want offspring that are likely to do well at conformation show?

That said, I grew up with AKC rules in show where neutered and spayed dogs were not able to compete except in fun matches and Obedience... although it looks like they've opened up a "Stud Dog" and "Brood Bitch" class possibility for neuters, to show off what that dog's parents can produce (although really, at least young spay/neuters will not be morphologically representative of what the parents produce, since spay/neuter before full maturity changes how an animal grows.)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well surely that would depend on whether you know the SOP for your chosen cat/dog/rat well enough to be able to judge for yourself whether the animal measures up.​ 
I wouldn't buy a show or breeding cat just because its parents were both champions and there was a liberal sprinkling of champions throughout the pedigree.​ 
Sorry, but not all judges are good judges and not all judges interpret the SOP correctly. I have seen Grand Champion cats that shouldn't even be on the showbench let alone have titles - but if owners persevere they do sometimes eventually succeed in getting titles for their cat and then can advertise their kittens as being champion bred.​


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

feorag said:


> Well surely that would depend on whether you know the SOP for your chosen cat/dog/rat well enough to be able to judge for yourself whether the animal measures up.​
> 
> I wouldn't buy a show or breeding cat just because its parents were both champions and there was a liberal sprinkling of champions throughout the pedigree.​
> 
> Sorry, but not all judges are good judges and not all judges interpret the SOP correctly. I have seen Grand Champion cats that shouldn't even be on the showbench let alone have titles - but if owners persevere they do sometimes eventually succeed in getting titles for their cat and then can advertise their kittens as being champion bred.​


totally agree, one of our 1st show dogs was bought from the loot lol (i am however going back over 20 years) she had papers n a few people had commented on how nice she was so as a hobby we started showing n she was amazing n did very well, my mum is trying 2 find one just like her (colour wise) n sadly we just cant find one. we have also got dogs from champ parents, grand parents etc that we only have as pets as they are no where near show quaility, but it dosnt bother us n we would never get rid of them as the dogs are pets/family 1st n show 2nd. sometimes with shows if ur face fits u get placed higher no matter what u have on the end of ur lead :lol2: 


judges pick dogs for all different reasons, i have been beat b4 by total :censor: just coz darcy was jumping about n being the little ball of fun he is :lol2: (totally my fault i didnt carm him down b4 going in the ring) coz that judge liked well behavied dogs, my darcy is 4ever wagging his tail n most judges do like that coz he has charator n is happy. i havnt shown in a few months been to busy with my little girl but my mum n i show 2 brothers darcy n phinn, sometimes i bet her n sometimes she beats me both dogs are good so it just depends what they like best.

with brood bitchs n stud dogs etc i think they get points on how well there offsring do in the ring, thats how u get top stud dogs n brood bitchs, sometimes the dogs arnt great show dogs but do produce very nice pups. but dont get me wrong there are good show dogs that do also produce top pups. after all u can have 2 very attractive people that produce an ugly kid :lol2: n vice versa :lol2:

i have no idea about cat shows tho, i am totally surpised there are so many different breeds some of the ones advertised at the mo iv never heard of b4, but i am only used 2 the bog standard moggie in cats as that is all we have ever owned n they have all been rescues that no one else wanted.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

When I was showing dogs years ago there was a group of 4 judges who quite simply swapped certificates and got their dogs made up - that was one of the things that p*ssed me off about dog shows, cos the owner was standing at the end of the leash smiling at his/her friend who was judging!!!

At least with cats there is some anonymity when you are showing as during the open class judging you aren't allowed to be beside your cat and all cats are in identical pens.

And I agree with you about personality playing a part with some judges. I know of one judge who will not handle a cat if it growls or spits when the steward goes to get it out of the pen, so if it was the best cat in the show it wouldn't get a certificate under her, because it wouldn't get judged.

My Harry is a prime example. He's a good example of the breed, but he loved the whole show scene, greeted every judge as if he/she was his best friend, so I think the judges started off assessing him in a good mood and liking him - he made Grand Champion very easily. Roscoe on the other hand didn't enjoy the show scene and didn't like to come out of his pen, so was reticent and moody and we took him off the bench for nearly 3 years. As Somalis go I think he was the best cat we'd ever bred and was much better than Harry but he struggled to get his Grands, because I think judges had a different attitude towards him before they even began to judge him.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

aww harry sounds lovely :flrt: just like my darcy, sometimes when the judge goes over him on the table his is completely still with only his tail wagging n sometimes gets a sli kiss from the judge as he touges them :lol2: some think its great n really funny but others look at me in discust :lol2: i dont care what they think it shows he enjoys himself

but he is normally in the breed classes with his brother phinn, n phin is a very seriouse dog n wont put a foot wrong so if they dont like silly darcy they pick phin n vice versa


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Judges used to have a problem getting Harry to stand on the show table, cos he would just flop on his back for a belly rub!! :lol2:

He was known as "the cat playing the piano" because if anyone went to talk to him he would leap to the front of the pen and start kneading away with excitement and getting attention. Like I said judges loved that, whereas Roscoe would stay where he was and look resigned and unhappy about coming out of his pen and they didn't like that!


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

feorag said:


> Judges used to have a problem getting Harry to stand on the show table, cos he would just flop on his back for a belly rub!! :lol2:
> 
> He was known as "the cat playing the piano" because if anyone went to talk to him he would leap to the front of the pen and start kneading away with excitement and getting attention. Like I said judges loved that, whereas Roscoe would stay where he was and look resigned and unhappy about coming out of his pen and they didn't like that!


aww bless :flrt: so what happeneds at a cat show?? do u pen ur kitties n then the judges stand them n go over them, does the judge walk them round?? or do they go back in there pen after being on the table??

im curious now never been 2 a cat show


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

As this thread is about bailiffs and showing cats/dogs/rats etc seems to be playing a large part, I've started a new thread about showing and have answered your question on there.

Don't really want to be accused of going so far off topic! :lol2:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/376827-dog-cat-fur-feather-shows.html#post4699956

,


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

My uncle (A solicitor) tells me that counter action could be taken if one can prove the animals (who at this point may or may not have been 're-possessed') suffer illnesses which require specific medical treatment. 

A farmer once took a ferret off me when I was a teenager. My uncle had him dragged through the shit and ended up paying me £500 for the upset I sustained.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

mattm said:


> In regards to neutered animals, most, if not all animals that are neutered are not allowed to be entered into a show.


Neutered dogs can be shown


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

feorag said:


> I haven't shown dogs for 30 years, so I don't know if that's changed or not, but you couldn't show a neutered male dog at a show back then.


You could - the rule just changed to allow neutered animals - dogs and bitches - just of course it was always obvious that dogs were don eso whereas all those years back people started showing spayed bitched not many took their dogs in - but the rule changed for them at exactly the same time!


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## [email protected] (Jul 11, 2008)

as a bayliff i can garentee u ur animals are safe


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## shiro_ookami (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks to all of you. Sorry i haven't replied earlier but i've had limited to no net access. Big thumbs up for the help  : victory::2thumb:


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