# another leo outcome question!!!



## chelseanlee (Feb 9, 2009)

what will i get if i put my supersnow bell albino female (2 red eyes) to my male mack snow bold stripe het bandit

thanks in advance :2thumb:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Balbino super snow X Snow striped SPLIT Super snow = .

Snow SPLIT Super snow/HET Balbino.
Snow aberrant SPLIT Super snow/HET Balbino.
Snow hyper aberrant SPLIT Super snow/HET Balbino.
Super snow HET Balbino.

Also possible you'll get Snow striped SPLIT Super snow/HET Balbino.


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

sheeesh...
i'll stick with me royals... :2thumb:


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

alan1 said:


> sheeesh...
> i'll stick with me royals... :2thumb:


I know Al, that's why my 2 Leo's are just my pets. Not interested in breeding even though they are both "good" morphs (Abberant Tremper Albino & a Super Hypo). I'll stick to the Royals too :2thumb:. Got enough to learn with them let alone Leo's too :whistling2:.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

chelseanlee said:


> what will i get if i put my supersnow bell albino female (2 red eyes) to my male mack snow bold stripe het bandit
> 
> thanks in advance :2thumb:


As far as I know, "Bandit" is polygenic, so het Bandit may not be the right term. Some offspring may show the trait and some may not me thinks.
Essentially you will get a 50/50 chance of Supersnows or Mack snows, all will be het for Bell albino. The mack snows may show varying degrees of jungle/stripe patterning.



alan1 said:


> sheeesh...
> i'll stick with me royals... :2thumb:





corny girl said:


> I know Al, that's why my 2 Leo's are just my pets. Not interested in breeding even though they are both "good" morphs (Abberant Tremper Albino & a Super Hypo). I'll stick to the Royals too :2thumb:. Got enough to learn with them let alone Leo's too :whistling2:.


Leis are easy, no where as many base morphs as royals


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## chelseanlee (Feb 9, 2009)

MrMike said:


> As far as I know, "Bandit" is polygenic, so het Bandit may not be the right term. Some offspring may show the trait and some may not me thinks.
> Essentially you will get a 50/50 chance of Supersnows or Mack snows, all will be het for Bell albino. The mack snows may show varying degrees of jungle/stripe patterning.
> 
> 
> ...


ok so as the 'bandit' is basically then a line bred trait does this mean it cannot be het for bandit? 
i have no chances of anything bandit being produced?
sorry im just trying to learn :blush:

thanks


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

chelseanlee said:


> ok so as the 'bandit' is basically then a line bred trait does this mean it cannot be het for bandit?
> i have no chances of anything bandit being produced?
> sorry im just trying to learn :blush:
> 
> thanks


I like to term them polyhet Bandit, basically as it is a line bred jungle polygenic trait. RT himself terms them het Bandit, although they will carry a jungle lineage and even the Bandit lineage making them more viable to produce a Bandit offspring.

I assume that you can indeed get a Bandit offspring off the "het for Bandit" leo, as it is a variation on the jungle polygenics (enter debate surrounding the Jungle gene) and you will have an increased chance of producing one, however not as much chance as you would if you had on visibly showing the Bandit markings. A visual Bandit x het Bandit will have an increased chance rather than a visual Bandit x normal/jungle.

I hope this sounds coherent and easy to read.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

chelseanlee said:


> ok so as the 'bandit' is basically then a line bred trait does this mean it cannot be het for bandit?
> i have no chances of anything bandit being produced?
> sorry im just trying to learn :blush:
> 
> thanks


Bandit is just a line of Striped or jungle that comes from Ron tremper.That he selected to have a clear bold look.
Same as Tangerine tornados are a line of Super hypo tangerine that TUG has selected for a clear improved look.


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## chelseanlee (Feb 9, 2009)

ok, think i get it now .

well more than i did at the start! :lol2:

thanks for all your help everyone :2thumb:


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

Here is what I gt from RT when enquiring about the Bandit:

"my bandit/bold gecko traits behave as a simple recessive. I have done all the het test breedings.......years ago when the
high concentration of black pigment appeared in a gecko
as a random mutation.
Many gecko genetics cannot be clearly defined based on todays
genetic definitions."

 RT

I have asked further questions and am currently awaiting his reply.

Otherwise... Bandit = Simple Recessive... discuss?


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

After further discussion between myself and RT, I have managed to find out that the band across the nose is the one "poly" like part of his bold line.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

PMGeckos said:


> After further discussion between myself and RT, I have managed to find out that the band across the nose is the one "poly" like part of his bold line.


The band across the nose is a inherted trait from the leo species (Eublepharis macularius afghanicus).Banits are jungle/Striped with a band across the nose and are Polygenic all the way not Recessive.Afghanicus is also most likly the leo species that gave us the aberrant trait that gave rise to the jungle and striped as aberrant is often seen in them.Even Hi-yellow IMO.

*Pure (Eublepharis macularius afghanicus).*



































































































Wild type Afghanicus X Captive normal.
Not nose band so not Recessive.Aso what you'd class as Hi-yellow.









Afghanicus snow SPLIT Super snow.
(Afghanicus X snow SPLIT Super snow).
Also quite yellow for a snow.


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

I can see where you are coming from Gazz and I agree with you, I believe that the nose bridge marking is polygenic. RT on the other hand insists that from years of test breeding it acts like a simple recessive. I will be test breeding this year to make up my own mind on the matter, however we do have one of the most renowned breeders in the world after years of test breeding stating that the bandit/bold gene acts like a recessive.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

PMGeckos said:


> I can see where you are coming from Gazz and I agree with you, I believe that the nose bridge marking is polygenic. RT on the other hand insists that from years of test breeding it acts like a simple recessive. I will be test breeding this year to make up my own mind on the matter, however we do have one of the most renowned breeders in the world after years of test breeding stating that the bandit/bold gene acts like a recessive.


Acting Recessive is't Recessive though.You can breed a Normal leo to a Hyper aberrant and get Banded,Aberrant and Hyper aberrant first generataion.And you can breed a Normal to a Hyper aberrant and get all Banded.But then breed the banded from the Normal X Hyper aberrant to gether and get Banded,Aberrant,Hyper aberrant offspring.There Polygenetic recessive not Recessive so there offspring is Poly-HET not HET.As they can act Recessive but you'll unlikely get 100% all of the time ever year from a Polygentic recessive like you would get from a Recessive.
The nose band i'm in no doutb is a polygentic trait i just don't see it a i big enough trait that warrent a differant name than Jungle or Striped IMO.


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

I agree with you Gazz, I may have not given my full attention when wording the posts. I do believe that the bandit marking is "polyhet" and not het itself.



PMGeckos said:


> I like to term them polyhet Bandit, basically as it is a line bred jungle polygenic trait.


As for it acting like a recessive, I know it is not the same as recessive. If it was, it would be too simple to understand : victory:. Would you indeed class the aberrant/hyper aberrant as poly-het, when one of the parents are visual holders of the gene or would it not be worth noting?

I am basically trying to figure out how to accurately call the offspring from my Bandit x Bandit pairing that do not show the Bandit nose bridge marking.

This was a section of one of the replies I received off RT:

"The band across the nose is the one "poly" like part of my bolds.
Bandit x bandit usually gives 75-100% of that sub-trait and 100% bolds.

And yes, bandit x normal gives normals het for bold/bandit."

This is the dilemma I am in, the second question I asked was; "Given the pairing of a Bandit x Normal should I expect 100% Normal het Bandit?" I hold the view that it is a poly trait. Would breeding a Normal poly-het Bandit to a Bandit give me an increased likelihood of producing Bandits?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

PMGeckos said:


> I am basically trying to figure out how to accurately call the offspring from my Bandit x Bandit pairing that do not show the Bandit nose bridge marking.


I'd tag a offspring that not expressing a nose band a Poly-HET Bandit From Bandit pareants.



PMGeckos said:


> This is the dilemma I am in, the second question I asked was; "Given the pairing of a Bandit x Normal should I expect 100% Normal het Bandit?" I hold the view that it is a poly trait. Would breeding a Normal poly-het Bandit to a Bandit give me an increased likelihood of producing Bandits?


Yes breeding a Normal Poly-HET Bandit to a Bandit will likely highten the chances of Bandit offsring.

But with any Polygenic trait you can get results first generation.So you could get the band across the nose from breeding a Bandit to a Normal.But what we don't know is the genes are leo's carry.So maybe most leo's that give Aberrant,Hyper aberrant and Striped offspring first generation may carry the aberrant influance from a ancestor from way back.


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

Ah, I thought that it would heighten the chances of the offspring. It will be interesting to see the outcome once the breeding gets under way, especially after a few years. I will be keeping a detailed database to help accurately record and produce some sort of report. Mainly for myself, although some people may be interested.

Thank you for your patience Gazz, you have been a star!


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