# Death Adder bite at Scales and Fangs.



## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

Last Monday, My venomous handler, Lee was biten by a Common Death Adder and has since made a full recovery without the help of antivenom. Lee was very lucky to say the least, he has been handling hots for 8 years and is extremely experianced. This is the first bite Lee has suffered from any venomous snake. The bite hasn't put him off in the slightest, in fact quite the oposite, it has been a great learning curve for everyone at Scales and Fangs and certainly brings it home just how dangerous these animals are and lets you see just how important it really is to be as careful as you are. Below is an article from the Echo newspaper.

_A REPTILE keeper was left fighting for his life after being bitten by a deadly snake._
_Medics raced to save Lee Thompson, 26, of Palace Grove, Laindon, after a highly-venomous Australian Common Death Adder sunk its fangs into his thumb._
_Mr Thompson, who has been working with poisonous snakes for eight years, teetered on the brink of death as venom pumped through his body, sending him into renal failure._
_He was rushed to Southend Hospital, where the life-saving antivenom took two-and-a-half hours to arrive._
_By that time, it was too late to administer. Treatment of his symptoms, as they arose, enabled doctors to stabilise his condition, then he fought his way back to health._
_Amazingly, after four days in hospital, Mr Thompson, of Palace Grove, Laindon, was up and about. A week on, he is back at work._
_The father-of-two was bitten, at Scales and Fangs, a specialist reptile and snake shop in London Road, Leigh._
_Mr Thompson, known to friends as "Lee Snake", said: "I don't know why it happened. I've been handling snakes since I was a boy and I've never been bitten before._
_"I was about to put the snake back in his box, but I must have laid him in at slightly the wrong angle, because he reared up and bit me on the right thumb._
_"As soon as it happened, I knew I was in trouble."_
_He was rushed to Southend Hospital, where doctors contacted experts at a London hospital where rare snake antivenoms are kept._
_The serum was sent, but doctors could not give it to Mr Thompson, as it came too late to be sure he might not have had a fatal reaction to it._
_Mr Thompson added: "I was OK at first, though my hand started to swell._
_"I tried to remain calm, but then as the hours went on, I started getting horrendous chest pains. That was then I feared I was going to die._
_"Then, hours later, I was told my kidneys were completely collapsing. It got really frightening."_
_Amazingly Mr Thompson, now almost fully recovered, is still happy to handle the offending snake._
_He said: "I'm going to keep him for myself, as he's the first snake to ever bite me._
_"I'm not concerned that I'll get bitten again. It doesn't happen very often. There's nothing which could keep my away from working with snakes."_
_Mr Thompson admitted he was lucky to be alive and thanked staff at the hospital._
_He said: "I don't think they get many snakebite cases, so I think I was a bit of a novelty for them!" _

Never under estimate the dangers involved in handling hots.

Stay safe guys,

Rob.


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## bennett (Jan 3, 2008)

WOW glad hes pulled through

Just lucky it wasnt a cobra or something else


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

bennett said:


> WOW glad hes pulled through
> 
> Just lucky it wasnt a cobra or something else


Have you seen where the death adder is on this list World's 10 Most Deadliest Snakes


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## nat86 (May 27, 2008)

cobra isnt even on that list


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

that man has one hell of a lot of fight in him! congrats for pulling through Lee! and thanks for posting.


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## Iliria (Jan 19, 2007)

glad he's now ok


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

Lees a great bloke, but its a good reminder about how things can happen, hope everythings ok and not been to stressful,


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## SamH (Aug 25, 2007)

Glad he's OK and its good that it hasn't put him of in any way. lol, dont think i'd want to keep a 'Death Adder' as a pet :lol2:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

bennett said:


> WOW glad hes pulled through
> 
> Just lucky it wasnt a cobra or something else


hmm, slightly misinformed post there. Most cobra's or arguably all cobra's are not as venomous as this species. 

glad he is ok, interesting to hear the effects,has this been published on venomdoc? if not, can i post it there please?

cheers,

Alex


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

its been all go this year, glad he pulled through alright, does go to show.


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## nat86 (May 27, 2008)

shouldnt it ov been ahell ov a lot worse ? my husband talks about snakes all the time and he said it wasnt his time to go


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

I am glad Lee is okay but do have one question - how can you not know what happenned? Did Lee actually say that or is it the press putting words in his mouth? I know how the press can often misword things.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

also what about the 2 1/2 hour thing and the reasoning behind it?


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

Yeah of course mate, I will get on there tonight and register.



carpy said:


> hmm, slightly misinformed post there. Most cobra's or arguably all cobra's are not as venomous as this species.
> 
> glad he is ok, interesting to hear the effects,has this been published on venomdoc? if not, can i post it there please?
> 
> ...


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

Angi said:


> I am glad Lee is okay but do have one question - how can you not know what happenned? Did Lee actually say that or is it the press putting words in his mouth? I know how the press can often misword things.


I must say, the press haven't been to bad with this, but you're right, they did get that bit wrong although as some of you know, Lee is very well established with hots and knows what he is doing, it was very unexpected the way the snake reacted. It happened as it was being put back into a tub. Lee had pinned it and then picked it up just behind the head and I had probed it (it was male by the way), Lee was placing it into the tub and had just released it when it recoiled so fast. This technique had been used hundreds of times before so it was a bit of a shock to say the least. Thankfully Lee is OK and we can all learn from it. Lee is training me in HOT handling and the one thing I have learnt is that the same process that has worked for years might not be as safe as antcipated and will work with Lee to find a safer method of release.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Scales and Fangs said:


> I must say, the press haven't been to bad with this, but you're right, they did get that bit wrong although as some of you know, Lee is very well established with hots and knows what he is doing, it was very unexpected the way the snake reacted. It happened as it was being put back into a tub. Lee had pinned it and then picked it up just behind the head and I had probed it (it was male by the way), Lee was placing it into the tub and had just released it when it recoiled so fast. This technique had been used hundreds of times before so it was a bit of a shock to say the least. Thankfully Lee is OK and we can all learn from it. Lee is training me in HOT handling and the one thing I have learnt is that the same process that has worked for years might not be as safe as antcipated and will work with Lee to find a safer method of release.


restraining tubes are the way forward, I honestly wouldnt want to be without mine, they are such a good but simple design, dont get used much in fact only once, but are so much safer than trying to pin, and the release is easy, a mate of mine thats been keeping 20+ years advised me to get them, and they are a vital bit of kit I recon.


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

SiUK said:


> also what about the 2 1/2 hour thing and the reasoning behind it?


Well!!!!:bash::bash::bash:

We got to the hospital within 10 mins of the bite, the paramedics had contacted the helicoptor and had it on standby at southend hospital and arranged for ambulance transfer from UCH to Guys on arrival, also on stand by. However, the consultant decided Lee was stable enough to stay at Southend and asked for the Antivenom to be sent by Rapid response from London to Southend at 1700hrs on a monday afternoon. the pilot of the helicoptor offered to fly and collect it, this was refused and it was sent by car. 2 and a half hours later it arrived. I think that the decisions that where made had been carried by a lot of luck. 

I can tell you that the paramedic team are not happy with the decisions made and will be taking further, lets hope that lessons are learned there too.

Rob.


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

SiUK said:


> restraining tubes are the way forward, I honestly wouldnt want to be without mine, they are such a good but simple design, dont get used much in fact only once, but are so much safer than trying to pin, and the release is easy, a mate of mine thats been keeping 20+ years advised me to get them, and they are a vital bit of kit I recon.


I was told about these a while back and will definatly be investing in a set.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Scales and Fangs said:


> Well!!!!:bash::bash::bash:
> 
> We got to the hospital within 10 mins of the bite, the paramedics had contacted the helicoptor and had it on standby at southend hospital and arranged for ambulance transfer from UCH to Guys on arrival, also on stand by. However, the consultant decided Lee was stable enough to stay at Southend and asked for the Antivenom to be sent by Rapid response from London to Southend at 1700hrs on a monday afternoon. the pilot of the helicoptor offered to fly and collect it, this was refused and it was sent by car. 2 and a half hours later it arrived. I think that the decisions that where made had been carried by a lot of luck.
> 
> ...


I know proff Warrell has said about a 2 hour cut off time, before permanent organ damage can be done. But I wasnt aware that AV wouldnt be given after that amount of time, I have heard of someone getting it days later, all was well but if he had been in a really bad way they would of had no choice


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Scales and Fangs said:


> I was told about these a while back and will definatly be investing in a set.


 
I got mine from Midwest, definately worth it I would say.


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## Scales and Fangs (Mar 22, 2007)

SiUK said:


> I know proff Warrell has said about a 2 hour cut off time, before permanent organ damage can be done. But I wasnt aware that AV wouldnt be given after that amount of time, I have heard of someone getting it days later, all was well but if he had been in a really bad way they would of had no choice


Again, the press haven't got all the facts.

The consultant had liased with doctors from guys and decided that antivenom was not needed unless he took a dramtaic turn for the worst, and although the press have hyped up the story, Lee's condition was never critical, it had the potential at times but his body reacted very well to all treatment.

Prof. Worrell is aware of this case and says that Lees reaction is the same as only 1 other in 32 years where it affected is kidneys so he is now involved in the case and wants to see the snake.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

cool, good that hes shown an interest, he really knows his stuff, we are lucky to have him over here.


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

Scales and Fangs said:


> Again, the press haven't got all the facts.
> 
> The consultant had liased with doctors from guys and decided that antivenom was not needed unless he took a dramtaic turn for the worst, and although the press have hyped up the story, Lee's condition was never critical, it had the potential at times but his body reacted very well to all treatment.
> 
> Prof. Worrell is aware of this case and says that Lees reaction is the same as only 1 other in 32 years where it affected is kidneys so he is now involved in the case and wants to see the snake.


when do the press ever get the facts they just chat shit to earn a buck


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Scales and Fangs said:


> Again, the press haven't got all the facts.
> 
> The consultant had liased with doctors from guys and decided that antivenom was not needed unless he took a dramtaic turn for the worst, and although the press have hyped up the story, Lee's condition was never critical, it had the potential at times but his body reacted very well to all treatment.
> .


I thought as much, I thought it odd that one day he would be in renal failure then the next day discharged, just did not add up.
The press certainly have a way with words and things always do get exagerated up to make a "good" story so to speak.
I imagine the local council will be nit picking with your health and safety policies? We have two folders full of health and safety policies, venomous training and policies and I am forever finding more to add.

On preparing to release your grip on the snakes head could you not get the back up handler to use a hook behind the neck to restrain it whilst the person pinning the head lets go, then all hands can be a good distance away from the head upon release? Then place the snake back within the enclosure with a second move using a tail and hook method. This is how I go about it when I need to pin my blandingi.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Scales and Fangs said:


> Last Monday, My venomous handler, Lee was biten by a Common Death Adder and has since made a full recovery without the help of antivenom. Lee was very lucky to say the least, he has been handling hots for 8 years and is extremely experianced. This is the first bite Lee has suffered from any venomous snake. The bite hasn't put him off in the slightest, in fact quite the oposite, it has been a great learning curve for everyone at Scales and Fangs and certainly brings it home just how dangerous these animals are and lets you see just how important it really is to be as careful as you are. Below is an article from the Echo newspaper.
> 
> _A REPTILE keeper was left fighting for his life after being bitten by a deadly snake._
> _Medics raced to save Lee Thompson, 26, of Palace Grove, Laindon, after a highly-venomous Australian Common Death Adder sunk its fangs into his thumb._
> ...


 Surely if someone keeps 'hots' the nearest hospital should keep a suply of the appropriate anti venom in stock just in case. The outcome could have been a tragedy because of the delay.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Bloody hell Rob scary stuff! Glad Lee is ok!


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

I thought Antivenoms can cost thousands and have limited shelf lives, you cannot expect every hospital in the country to keep a huge range of them in stock.That would mean cutting back on other healthcare, which they are not going to do. 
Treating venomous bites is a specialised area and quite a rare occurance in the UK ( at least until recently!). The NHS does not have endless spending facilities and I am quite sure that they have at some point liased with professionals to determine the nessecity of storing antivenom within hospitals. They are constantly reviewing policies too. Personally I believe that they have a good system at present. Although I do think healthcare staff should recieve training on how to deal with this type of scenario considering the rapid increase in venomous bites recently.


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## WW** (Jan 20, 2008)

Angi;1853339On preparing to release your grip on the snakes head could you not get the back up handler to use a hook behind the neck to restrain it whilst the person pinning the head lets go said:


> Pinning the head prior to release is a good idea, particularly with smaller snakes.
> 
> On the other hand, hooking and tailing a small death adder would be a very bad idea, these snakes would have no trouble flipping up and tagging the holding hand.
> 
> ...


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm glad Lee pulled through okay despite the doctors withholding the A/V. I have many questions regarding his care....

I found out the hard way that Deathies don't like being put back into their enclosure, this is why I always use the "U-Plex" to get these bad little beasties back where they belong without them handing off my fingers.

Al


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

Scales and Fangs said:


> Again, the press haven't got all the facts.
> 
> The consultant had liased with doctors from guys and decided that antivenom was not needed unless he took a dramtaic turn for the worst, and although the press have hyped up the story, Lee's condition was never critical, it had the potential at times but his body reacted very well to all treatment.
> 
> Prof. Worrell is aware of this case and says that Lees reaction is the same as only 1 other in 32 years where it affected is kidneys so he is now involved in the case and wants to see the snake.


Nice that Prof. Worrell is involved :no1: I never heard or even read that there were any kidney issues with Deathes. I have not seen any reference to use of a pressure bandage. This a must use with Elapids of this type. It can retarded the onset of venoms effects TILL the A/V is on hand. 

I just don't like an arbitrary cut off time for the use of A/V in these cases. I wonder what the difference in the serum venom concentration was between 2 and 2.5 hrs elapsed time. I would be willing to bet it was STILL increasing at that point.

Cheers!

Al


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Whilst i see the "bad decision" in not scrambling the chopper to deal retrive the AV, i think, due only to the way things turned out, that it was a blessing in discuise. 

Had the AV been on hand faster, and been administered, which it may well have been in this case, then the effects from that at the time and after may have been may worse for Lee. 

I certainly would not like to have horse serum pumped into me, and i think that the course of action, although bad at the time, worked in his favour. 

Dan


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

lol he was just on London tonight


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

darkdan99 said:


> Whilst i see the "bad decision" in not scrambling the chopper to deal retrive the AV, i think, due only to the way things turned out, that it was a blessing in discuise.
> 
> Had the AV been on hand faster, and been administered, which it may well have been in this case, then the effects from that at the time and after may have been may worse for Lee.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, mate having 50 to 100 ml of horse protein flowing in your veins is not much more fun than the bite itself.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Very good interview! Nice to see that it was not sensationalised.


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