# animals in pet shops



## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

*this thread is not for arguing, it is for a disscution*. 

can people please tell me how they feel about animals being sold in pet shops. all comments will be taken on board!



please note: i will be opening a pet shop and i will be selling animals, before i do so i will be doing the following courses:

animal care
exotic animal care
birds of prey diploma
animal welfare and rescue
herpology
british wild mammal diploma
veterinary assistant
and some others
i will be doing voluntary work in various vets, resuce centers etc.

i will be supplied by private breeders, who i will personally inspect, i will personally choose the animals i sell, all my animals will be sold with care sheets and i will be holding events every month on how to care for the animals i sell.


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## lunarlikes (Mar 6, 2009)

I like what you are wanting to do to open a shop especially the monthly talk, parents are always looking at thing sto do. I would also as a off the topic note try having different bits and bobs in the shop not just animals as some of us come in to look for something small we're not always looking for a pet to add to the collection.

I am happy with buying pets from a shop where they look happy and healthy and have good clean space with water and food


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)



> In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the *primary intent of provoking other users into a desired **emotional** response*[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


My bold. Is it the holidays again already?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i wont just be selling alimals, i will also be sellin, food, equipment, supplements, etc.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> 
> 
> 
> My bold. Is it the holidays again already?


 
i am sorry but as i said at the top of the thraed this thread is for discussion only not arguments and so if you have a problem with any of my threads i ask you to PLEASE inbox me


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I think we need to relise that these shops need to make a profit too, YES IT should be top priority to feed, clean and occasionally handle the animals, I would definately not buy animals from a shop that were sitting in dirty enclosures, I like what you are saying, learn as much as you can before making a dedicated decison like that, with the knowledge you gain from these courses the chance's are you will become a respected shop owner.
We all need to appreciate the fact that not every petshop will look after there stock the same way, sometimes it is good and sometimes it is not, but good luck to you I hope you acheive your ambitions.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thank you very much


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

my final word is the OP has stated this is to be a argument free zone...
why even bother attempting to nit pick it is really starting to get boring now *yawns and walks out of thread* good luck op: victory:


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Right, you start this in one thread and then start a new one because people there disagreed with you? How very daft. I shall simply c+p what I said to you in the other thread. You will not be offered good quality animals in a pet shop.
The point, that you appear to be missing, is that good breeders would not be selling to shops. Let's take the example of rabbits, say I'm a breeder of dwarf lops, I breed for health first, I health test and remove substandard animals from my breeding program, who are then neutered and sold to pet homes with contracts. I get four or five generations in and am happy with my line, I begin to show and begin to win. I breed my best doe to my best buck, or maybe a buck of high quality that I pay stud fee for.
This entire process has taken 5 years of work, networking, research, and pet care. I have 6 kits of top quality.
Now do I -
a) Sell my kits myself to carefully vetted owners who will show and continue my bloodline spreading my reputation and continuing my good work or...
b) Flog them to the pet shop to be sold to strangers who will keep them in a poxy hutch and do nothing with them?
Think about it a little.

As an alternative, how about inviting rescues to bring their animals to your shop and rehoming some of them?


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

I think it is fine as long as the shop knows what they are doing has enough space etcetc. and any customers should be asked basic care questions to make sure they will be able to look after that animal proparly


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

they will not have many of the animals that i will be selling. i did not set this thread up due to the reason you give. i set it up so that a thread about dogs can continue being about dogs. and im not sure how you can say that a home you have vetted will be any better than someone who has brought from a shop. the people you sell to may not do anything with the animal but tell you that they do (you are not there 24/7 to see what is happening) the same as a person to buys from a shop could do all you are asking and more for the animal


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

MP reptiles said:


> I think it is fine as long as the shop knows what they are doing has enough space etcetc. and any customers should be asked basic care questions to make sure they will be able to look after that animal proparly


 
I agree with this, particularly with some of the more aggresive species, an iguana for e.g, while my view is despite owning 1 and having had 3 they should never have been introduced into the pet trade  however some shops have stoped selling them now) and those that do I am pleased to say usually test the buyers knowledge: victory: I think it is an excellent idea.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> they will not have many of the animals that i will be selling. i did not set this thread up due to the reason you give. i set it up so that a thread about dogs can continue being about dogs. and im not sure how you can say that a home you have vetted will be any better than someone who has brought from a shop. the people you sell to may not do anything with the animal but tell you that they do (you are not there 24/7 to see what is happening) the same as a person to buys from a shop could do all you are asking and more for the animal


 it was my opinion and count me out of this thread from now on i can see this going to and argument


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, i will make a note of this although i was not planning to sell iggys, i am think of something along the lines of chameleons and geckos


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

rosanna123 said:


> they will not have many of the animals that i will be selling. i did not set this thread up due to the reason you give. i set it up so that a thread about dogs can continue being about dogs. and im not sure how you can say that a home you have vetted will be any better than someone who has brought from a shop. the people you sell to may not do anything with the animal but tell you that they do (you are not there 24/7 to see what is happening) the same as a person to buys from a shop could do all you are asking and more for the animal


If you go to their home, check the current condition of their animals, check what facilities they have, and also have them sign a contract that states certain things then you can bet I have a good idea. In a pet shop anyone can walk in, they could have 20 pets at home starving to death, or it could be a teenager who is buying on impulse, has no enclosure and hasn't told their parents, then the animal will be in a rescue, or worse, a pound, within days.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i am sorry but as i said at the top of the thraed this thread is for discussion only not arguments and so if you have a problem with any of my threads i ask you to PLEASE inbox me


And here we go again.

Note to posters, by 'discussion' she actually means 'don't post unless you agree with me'.

OP you know perfectly well what plenty of us feel about this subject. Instead of posting YET AGAIN why don't you go back and re-read your previous threads?

And you're going to do all those courses? Wow, that'll be very expensive and take a long time. Not opening in May now then?

Total and utter fantasist !


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

MP reptiles said:


> it was my opinion and count me out of this thread from now on i can see this going to and argument


ok, well thanks for your opion, i do hope that this does not turn into and argument as a mearly want to discuss how people feel about animals in shops. belive me i was not having ago i was simply disussing what was said


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> ok, i will make a note of this although i was not planning to sell iggys, i am think of something along the lines of chameleons and geckos


Good choice nothng too difficult lol, either way if that is what you want to do go for it, at the end of the day if people don't want to breed for your shop others will. 
Everyone has the right to attempt to make a living if it doesn't work at least you can say you tried it and had the expirience.: victory:
I have bred corn snakes for the shop I used to work in for e.g. and I know someone that breeds cats for Emersons in the northeast too?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Devi said:


> If you go to their home, check the current condition of their animals, check what facilities they have, and also have them sign a contract that states certain things then you can bet I have a good idea. In a pet shop anyone can walk in, they could have 20 pets at home starving to death, or it could be a teenager who is buying on impulse, has no enclosure and hasn't told their parents, then the animal will be in a rescue, or worse, a pound, within days.


ok i understand what you are saying and may i just note that no animal will be sold to anyone under the age of 18 



vonnie said:


> And here we go again.
> 
> Note to posters, by 'discussion' she actually means 'don't post unless you agree with me'.
> 
> ...


no, i have spoken to my fiance about it and we have decided it would be best to wait for approx 5 yrs, and yes i am doing all these courses to expand my knowlegde, yes it will be expencive but i have found grants that can pay for them. i have decided that it would be a good idea to do these courses aswell as work at vets and rescues to also expand my knowlegde. 

i have read my previous threads but i thought that if i was to explain my self more on what i am planning to do, e.g. courses, voluntary work ect. before i do my shop. i may get a bit of a better DISCUSSION going rather than insults and arguments


*once again just to not, this thread is for a disuccion not arguments. if you have a problem with this thread where you belive an argument will start please pm me.*

i am open to critisem as well as praise


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Good choice nothng too difficult lol, either way if that is what you want to do go for it, at the end of the day if people don't want to breed for your shop others will.
> Everyone has the right to attempt to make a living if it doesn't work at least you can say you tried it and had the expirience.: victory:
> I have bred corn snakes for the shop I used to work in for e.g. and I know someone that breeds cats for Emersons in the northeast too?


thank you for your comment. i will not be selling cats lol, only small animals other than giant rabbits (still in the ideas stage at the moment lol)


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Haha fair doos, okay I would just like to point out you can still work while doing these courses:gasp: especially doing them online and in your own time.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i know, i am doing home learning courses due to having 2 kids age 3 and under and a disabled fiance. so i will be doing voluntary work to expand my knowlegde, help with my courses and help animals


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

rosanna123 said:


> i know, i am doing home learning courses due to having 2 kids age 3 and under and a disabled fiance. so i will be doing voluntary work to expand my knowlegde, help with my courses and help animals


Where exactly are you doing online courses? The ones you quote all need hands on experience.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> birds of prey diploma


i sincerly hope this is just to expand your knowledge, if so good for you. but please for the sake of the animals do not even consider selling BOPs in a pet shop. they are suffering enough from impulse buyers when they have to be bought from breeders, the potential of 'what could go wrong?' if they start being available in pet shops is something that i dont want to consider. 

personally i prefer to buy direct from breeders, but i have bought from pet shops, but only ones with large enclosures and those who know about the animals they sell, not just knowledge of the species but knowledge of the animal itself ie 'she likes carrots but not cabbage' dosent take much to add a personal touch to an animal sale.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Devi said:


> Where exactly are you doing online courses? The ones you quote all need hands on experience.


at animals jobs direct and other places like this, i cant list all at the moment.



miss_ferret said:


> i sincerly hope this is just to expand your knowledge, if so good for you. but please for the sake of the animals do not even consider selling BOPs in a pet shop. they are suffering enough from impulse buyers when they have to be bought from breeders, the potential of 'what could go wrong?' if they start being available in pet shops is something that i dont want to consider.
> 
> personally i prefer to buy direct from breeders, but i have bought from pet shops, but only ones with large enclosures and those who know about the animals they sell, not just knowledge of the species but knowledge of the animal itself ie 'she likes carrots but not cabbage' dosent take much to add a personal touch to an animal sale.


the birds of prey diploma is simply for knowledge, i would never dream of selling one in a shop


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Animal Care Courses and Training. Online Animal Care Diplomas: victory:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thats not the place i found them, i found them here Animal Care Courses at Courses Plus


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> at animals jobs direct and other places like this, i cant list all at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> the birds of prey diploma is simply for knowledge, i would never dream of selling one in a shop


 
Thing is it will help! people are always asking shops for advice on something or another, and it probibly is not the first time advice has been asked on these birds, a good shop should have a mountain of knowledge stored in there heads if it is to gain a good business reputation.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i would just like to thank you in your support, it is very appriciated


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> thats not the place i found them, i found them here Animal Care Courses at Courses Plus


 
It is a good one, the one I Posted is where I got my diploma, I am extremely glad I doen it, unfortunately I only done the reptile, exotic side of it  always wanted to do the cat behavior course too, might get around to it one day: victory:


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

I'm concerned about the online courses you are taking - do you know which professional qualifications body they are approved and regulated by? Plenty of places offer online 'certificates' and 'diplomas' that look and sound very impressive, but unless these are approved and recognised by a national qualifications board like AQA, Excel or a UK university then they are essentially worthless and not nationally recognised qualifications - they're ok if you want to take them just as a hobby or for fun, but are a frightening waste of money for something you can't actually use for business and career purposes. Please double check who regulates your courses as you may be getting ripped off! 

Do you have a college near you that can offer GNVQs or National Diplomas in animal care that you could study part time? Or maybe the City & Guilds certificate in Pet Shop Management?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have not checked them, but i will. there is no college near me that do them courses, the closest is over 30 miles away and i cant get to it. i will be doing the pet shop management, nearer the time of doing my shop


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

9Red has a point, it might be worth your while checking with your council licence department about what qualifications they actually want. i know i had to provide all sorts of stuff for my piercing licence and from what i gather there a lot more demanding with a PSL.


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## rtk (Feb 9, 2011)

Not intending to start an argument and I am a teacher :whistling2:

BUT I often doubt the value of courses, even the accredited BTEC ones for practical subject.

A good example is the horse courses the colleges are churning out. 

Yes you can get a Level 3 Diploma in Horse Management but would I let you look after my horses with only that - not on your life.

There is no substitute for practical experience, they are a good start, but get a job working with animals for a few years first.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

all it says is that i need sufficant qualifications and/or experiance of the animals i will be selling and i need to have done or complete the pet shop management course within 2 yrs of getting my first licence


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

rtk said:


> Not intending to start an argument and I am a teacher :whistling2:
> 
> BUT I often doubt the value of courses, even the accredited BTEC ones for practical subject.
> 
> ...


this is why i will also be doing voluntary work, so that i also get the hands on experiance, and people would prefere to take someone on they will not need to pay, rather than a paid trainee (well thats what i would like to think)


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

I am still wondering how you will find the time to do all/part of those courses with two children under three.

As has been said, check the credentials of those offering the courses as the cost is fairly high if you intend on doing more than one.

Who will be funding them - if you are applying for finance (Student Loan, Government, Council etc) they will only pay I would have thought, if at all, for proper and accredited courses?

As you have put your plans on "hold" for a petshop - I wonder with the way things are, ie so many job losses, people looking for work etc, would it be better to train and study in something that could provide you with a job at the end of it all so you get a salary and don't have to still live on a shoestring?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> I am still wondering how you will find the time to do all/part of those courses with two children under three.
> 
> *i will be doing a max of 3 courses at a time, my children go to bed a 6pm and so i will be doing them in the evenings*
> 
> ...


 
*animals are the only thing i know, this will be providing me with a job "my shop", the govt. are noww trying to help businesses start up.*


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## RachaelBee (Feb 1, 2011)

I'd buy pets from a shop that's reputable, knowledgeable and where the animals look healthy and happy. I got my first corn snake from my local pet shop and they told me loads of info, let me see him feed and also explained about breeding the snakes (they use their own breeding stock).

Also if you're doing courses I would really recommend looking for a college so you can do things hands on. I'm doing hands on courses with horses and actually doing them has made me realise how little I can learn from books on the subject, it's something that I can read then repeat, run through my head a thousand times but actually doing it is a different thing. 

Edited because I just saw where you're from.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

as i have said before there arnt any colleges that close to me that do any of the courses i am going to be doing and so i am going to be doing voluntary work instead.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a pet shop is a business...

to be successful one has to know the Ins and outs of a small retail business first and foremost... then focus on the rest...

selling hats or hamsters ... it makes no difference... know how to run a proper retail store before considering what products you will be selling...

then do market research.... the business plan... all that first...


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> e.g. and I know someone that breeds cats for Emersons in the northeast too?


I wouldn't put a worm in their care let alone a cat/kitten, their reputation is dire (although my personal experience is at least 10 years old as I dont live up there any more). 

My personal reasons for not stocking a shop are...

1. I couldn't vet homes and know my rats are in the best homes available, not just a random incoming customer who probably has done no research.
2. I wouldn't be given contact details for those buying my animals, in order to keep in touch for health/temperament updates.
3. Impulse buying - see no.1.
4. Poor care information given in order to make a sale/profit, rather than what's best for the animals. Eg. sawdust, nuggets, small cages etc.
5. The pathetic enclosures most pet shops have for their animals. Even pets at home keep rats in a tiny fish tank, not even big enough for a land snail, let alone a group of rats. This actually pees me off no end as they recommend the Freddy cages, and even have them on the shelf opposite in our local branch, but will they heck as like use them themselves...
6. The stress on the animals being cooped up in crap enclosures and prodded at by kids all day.

There are probably more, but they're the key ones there. I'm not against other people who dont care about those points selling animals in pet shops, but that's my reason for not doing so. I am much more against the rodent farms than I am responsible breeders choices. But you'll be hard pushed to find a responsible breeder who would stock pet shops, so your choice will be BYBs and rodent farms. Neither of which would be my port of call for a nice pet...


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I wouldn't put a worm in their care let alone a cat/kitten, their reputation is dire (although my personal experience is at least 10 years old as I dont live up there any more).
> 
> My personal reasons for not stocking a shop are...
> 
> ...


i understand why you would not sell to pet shops, but may i just say i do already have breeders who would like to supply my shop. i am not using rodent farmed stock. i will be holding events every month for people to find out how to care for the animals that i will sell. all the enclosers will be of a good size for the animals, i will be offering starter kits with all animals and i will also recommend enclosers, equipment, food, etc.

i will always consider the animals welfare, and i want to be the best shop owner i possiably can be


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i understand why you would not sell to pet shops, but may i just say i do already have breeders who would like to supply my shop. i am not using rodent farmed stock. i will be holding events every month for people to find out how to care for the animals that i will sell. all the enclosers will be of a good size for the animals, i will be offering starter kits with all animals and i will also recommend enclosers, equipment, food, etc.
> 
> i will always consider the animals welfare, and i want to be the best shop owner i possiably can be



It will never happen, you live in a dream. You were so sure it would open in may, now thats changed, so why keep banging on about the same thing which people have given you advise on other threads and you chose to ignore just because they didn't say what you wanted to hear. 

At the end off the day i think you couldn't get the loan you was after, so to make sure that people didn't prove you wrong you have now changed it to 5 years, what will it be when the 5 years as been and gone?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

martyb said:


> It will never happen, you live in a dream. You were so sure it would open in may, now thats changed, so why keep banging on about the same thing which people have given you advise on other threads and you chose to ignore just because they didn't say what you wanted to hear.
> 
> At the end off the day i think you couldn't get the loan you was after, so to make sure that people didn't prove you wrong you have now changed it to 5 years, what will it be when the 5 years as been and gone?


 it will and is happening, as was said before (i dont like keep repeating myself) me and my fiance decided it would be better to wait about 5 yrs, plan alot more, do my courses, driving licence and some voluntary work. my only problem with the last threads was the abuse i was getting. 

please if you have a diffrence of opion please to tell, and explain your reasoning for it.

although if you have only come to this thread to make trouble and an argument. then i ask you to please pm me and not publically post here as *this thread is for discussion only and not to argue. *i will how ever answer any questions you may have.


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## RachaelBee (Feb 1, 2011)

rosanna123 said:


> as i have said before there arnt any colleges that close to me that do any of the courses i am going to be doing and so i am going to be doing voluntary work instead.


I don't want to knock voluntary work as I think it's a great idea but be aware if people are trying to run a business and you're volunteering it could be that the training you want gets neglected or they show you a fast way of doing things that isn't necessarily correct.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

HABU said:


> a pet shop is a business...
> 
> to be successful one has to know the Ins and outs of a small retail business first and foremost... then focus on the rest...
> 
> ...


i have been doing this for the last few months (i have a folder full of ideas ect. for my shop), i have books on how to write business plans, every thing. but me and my fiance have decided to put these plans on hold until i have done my driving test, voluntary work (including work in pet shops) and the courses that i have planned. once i have done all of this i will then do the pet shop management course, re- write the business plan and get my shop up and running


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

RachaelBee said:


> I don't want to knock voluntary work as I think it's a great idea but be aware if people are trying to run a business and you're volunteering it could be that the training you want gets neglected or they show you a fast way of doing things that isn't necessarily correct.


 
ok, i do understand what you are saying. i have explained in the letters that i have sent out that i will be opening a pet shop, i am doing this course, that course and the other course. and that is why i am asking for voluntary work with them, to 1. help with my studies, to 2. expand my knowlegde, to 3. give them an extra pair of hands (for free) and to 4. help animals (if a rescue or vets)


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## sam_sam (Jan 6, 2010)

i thought you needed a level 3 in animal care/management to open a pet shop. or will you be doing an equivalent?
pet shops selling animals is often a bit iffy because, as said, not many reputable breeders will sell to shops. 
someone mentioned above about rescuing animals, have you considerd this? there are so many unwanted animals that you could find homes for instead of bringing in more potentially unwanted animals in. 
also it would be good if any animals you sell can be returned to you if the owner changes their mind, most pets shops do not take returned animals, but taking responsibility for the animals you sell will prevent some of them ending up in rescue centres. 
this is a very debatable subject, but if your animals have been sourced responsibly and you ensure that people who come in are serious and knowlegable about the animal they want then it would make you one of the better shops. 
good luck : victory:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i have been doing this for the last few months (i have a folder full of ideas ect. for my shop), i have books on how to write business plans, every thing. but me and my fiance have decided to put these plans on hold until i have done my driving test, voluntary work (including work in pet shops) and the courses that i have planned. once i have done all of this i will then do the pet shop management course, re- write the business plan and get my shop up and running


 
really learning the ropes in a good shop is great...:2thumb:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i unfortunatley can not garantee that all customers are knowlegdeable, but i can do my best to make sure that protential owners know how to care for the animal (in the form of care sheets, i will also offer them the chance to perchase a book/dvd about the pet they have brought and i am hoping to be doing events every month on how to care for the animals.)
i will be offering some kind of return policy (still got to work out how to work it, but got plenty of time for that)
i will be checking every animal and breeders myself (one of the reasons i am doing a veterinary assistant course, i can preform a health check on each animal)
also i am doing the pet shop management course nearer the time of opening my shop


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Devi said:


> Right, you start this in one thread and then start a new one because people there disagreed with you? How very daft. I shall simply c+p what I said to you in the other thread. You will not be offered good quality animals in a pet shop.
> The point, that you appear to be missing, is that good breeders would not be selling to shops. Let's take the example of rabbits, say I'm a breeder of dwarf lops, I breed for health first, I health test and remove substandard animals from my breeding program, who are then neutered and sold to pet homes with contracts. I get four or five generations in and am happy with my line, I begin to show and begin to win. I breed my best doe to my best buck, or maybe a buck of high quality that I pay stud fee for.
> This entire process has taken 5 years of work, networking, research, and pet care. I have 6 kits of top quality.
> Now do I -
> ...


nice ideas but i`ve not come across anyone in the rabbit show world that would do this.

using a rent a stud - not going to happen in my experience, rabbit syphalis is spread like this, and you show me a show breeder that`ll willingly let their lines out ( rare breeds excepted ) and i`ll eat my hat!

a contract isnt enforcable and not worth the paper its written on.

a showbreeder spending £75 getting bun neutered then rehoming it? not likely.

think you`ll find out of the 6 quality rabbits you`ve just bred, the majority of breeders would keep the two they wanted, maybe let a friend have one, the other three would be shipped to a petshop out of their area very quietly and exchanged for dosh to spend towards food/bedding/show fees, with the hope that they get sold before a fellow exhibitor stumbles across them, slaps a brc ring on and hits the show circuit........theres many a well bred, quality bun in the petshops if you know where to look and know what you`re looking at

:lol2:


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

sam_sam said:


> i thought you needed a level 3 in animal care/management to open a pet shop.


Not true. The old store I worked in has been running for 15 years, the owner has a degree in business. But not in anything animal related. 




sam_sam said:


> also it would be good if any animals you sell can be returned to you if the owner changes their mind, most pets shops do not take returned animals, but taking responsibility for the animals you sell will prevent some of them ending up in rescue centres.


I don't think this is a good plan. Allowing owners to give the animal back once they get tired of it will just encourage impulse buying. Obviously there are always unusual circumstances, like not knowing a child is allergic to rabbit fur until it's already been bought. In which case returning would be fine. 
Also a pet shop is a business. If it becomes full of older unwanted animals it can't shift it's just become the rescue center.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I would check with a benefits advisor about any volunteering. As far as I know unpaid work for a charity/rescue etc is acceptable, but I think working for free for a business may not be.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Also I really wouldn't mention your intentions of opening a pet shop when writing to existing pet shops to get experience. Best to say you're 'hoping to work with animals' or something like that.

No-one in their right mind is going to teach the tricks of their trade to someone so that they can set themselves up in competition!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Darklas said:


> I don't think this is a good plan. Allowing owners to give the animal back once they get tired of it will just encourage impulse buying. Obviously there are always unusual circumstances, like not knowing a child is allergic to rabbit fur until it's already been bought. In which case returning would be fine.
> Also a pet shop is a business. If it becomes full of older unwanted animals it can't shift it's just become the rescue center.


It's what most good breeders do though, and at the very least if a breeder did decide to go down this route, that would be one of the stipulations for me (not that I'm going to change my mind on this though, I will never supply a pet shop).

However, I was asked recently if I would consider rehoming a pair of rats to a local pet shop in order for them to draw in customers and educate them on the proper care. I've not decided yet as I have concerns about them being prodded and poked at by snotty kids all day. It would have to be a very good pet shop in order for me to consider that.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i will do thank you for that as i thought all voluntary work was ok


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> It's what most good breeders do though, and at the very least if a breeder did decide to go down this route, that would be one of the stipulations for me (not that I'm going to change my mind on this though, I will never supply a pet shop).
> 
> However, I was asked recently if I would consider rehoming a pair of rats to a local pet shop in order for them to draw in customers and educate them on the proper care. I've not decided yet as I have concerns about them being prodded and poked at by snotty kids all day. It would have to be a very good pet shop in order for me to consider that.


 
out of all the shops i have been in that sell animals. you can not touch them at all


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## sam_sam (Jan 6, 2010)

Darklas said:


> Not true. The old store I worked in has been running for 15 years, the owner has a degree in business. But not in anything animal related.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
yeah i get what your saying about it ending up being a rescue centre instead of a business, of course the business needs to earn profit. but i do believe all sellers should take responsibility for the animals that they sell even if the owner has been irresponsible.

like i said its a debatable subject. some things that are best for animals is not always best for business. so which do you comprimise.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i will do thank you for that as i thought all voluntary work was ok


from what i can remember you can volunteer as much as you like as long as it dosent affect the terms of your benifits, see here: Volunteering while on benefits : Directgov - Home and community


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

It's the 'How voluntary work is defined' section that I was thinking of

_'If you choose not be paid for any work you do this is not the same as volunteering. The wage you would normally receive could be counted as ‘notional earnings’. If you receive an income-related benefit, such as Income Support, Jobseeker's Allowance, Housing or Council Tax benefit, it could affect the benefits you receive.'

I would class offering to work for free in a pet shop etc as falling under that definition. Although it must be a grey area as I'm sure the vets here regularly has people there gaining experience._


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> * disscution*.
> 
> animal care
> exotic animal care
> ...


First of all Animal care, exotic, care, animal welfare and i do believe Herpetology come under your ND and higher course, not separate,

Veterinary assistant, why are you doing this unless you want to become vet nurse? its a long course and will not help you run a shop!

You would be better doing your HND and BSC i think it is and then doing a business course!

How old are you?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> out of all the shops i have been in that sell animals. you can not touch them at all


But are they still on display in tiny tanks, under bright lights, in busy parts of the shop where people can come and gawp at them, like every other pet shop I know? :whistling2:


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## otb2 (Nov 30, 2006)

> i will be offering some kind of return policy (still got to work out how to work it, but got plenty of time for that)
> i will be checking every animal and breeders myself (one of the reasons i am doing a veterinary assistant course, i can preform a health check on each animal)


Sorry but I think u are doomed to bankruptcy if you have a long term returns policy in your shop.
Most shops give a short returns policy like a day or two, just in case the customer does change their mind or something however if you leave it open ended u will just get the animal back when its ill or they are bored of it, and they still usually want money for it!!
I think you should invest in one good animal care course and a business one before you waste your money and time on a doomed business.
Also alot of breeders will not allow you into their place straight away, you will need to source your animals from various suppliers or you will never have a good variety of stock in your shop. Theres only so many breeders in your area.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I wouldn't put a worm in their care let alone a cat/kitten, their reputation is dire (although my personal experience is at least 10 years old as I dont live up there any more).
> 
> My personal reasons for not stocking a shop are...
> 
> ...


 
Yes the shop is not a good one, and the staff lack lots I have had more than one argument in the washington one a few times, BUT they do sell, and they sell quite succesfully, I was merely pointing out that some breeders may not breed for you but some will: victory:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

bosshogg said:


> First of all Animal care, exotic, care, animal welfare and i do believe Herpetology come under your ND and higher course, not separate,
> 
> *these are all seperate home learning courses that i will be doing (please see a couple of pages back in this thread where i have explained all this and shown where i am doing the courses)*
> 
> ...


*i am 21 yrs old*




LisaLQ said:


> But are they still on display in tiny tanks, under bright lights, in busy parts of the shop where people can come and gawp at them, like every other pet shop I know? :whistling2:


*ok, well just to let you know the animals in my shop will be having large enclourses with lots of toys and hides and will recieve as much natural light as possible*



otb2 said:


> Sorry but I think u are doomed to bankruptcy if you have a long term returns policy in your shop.
> Most shops give a short returns policy like a day or two, just in case the customer does change their mind or something however if you leave it open ended u will just get the animal back when its ill or they are bored of it, and they still usually want money for it!!
> 
> *i am very sorry you feel this way about my shop. i feel that as the shop owner and it being my choice to sell the animals, i should be responsible for them. im am sorry if you dont think it is a good idea and i appricatiate your opion but as i have said i will be offering a return poilcy. i have not worked out how it will work as yet but the animal will be able to be brought back at any time in its life, if it then is too old to sell back on then i will either keep it myself or rehome it witha knowlegdeable freind*
> ...


*as i will say again i have many breeders willing to stock my shop, many of whom have got intouch with me personally.*


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

just to add. i would like to sell show quality mice, rats, guinea pigs, rabbits ect. (i need to look into it more). i would also like to advatise the clubs and give out info packs with a membership form for each of these animals brought. i hope that this will make people more aware of the clubs and let people know that they can do more with these animals than they think.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Are there any basic qualifications needed for these courses - eg GCSEs etc?

I thought with a Veterinary Nurse course you needed to be working in a practice virtually full time with a day at college?


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Im personally would like to see NO animals sold in shops, the shop can make enough money from a good range of products and can advertise/ have a breeders list/ notice board etc of where any prospective buyer can source the animal they want. You don't go into a saddlers/horse feed shop to buy a horse so why a pet shop for an animal, there are to many impulse buys and no amount of care and good advise can ensure a good home I also think that any new owner should wish to see the sort of home their animal comes from. I wouldn't think that the bulk of the income comes from livestock, there is a good petshop where we live that has an enormous selection of sundries, it also has a grooming parlour but no livestock so a petshop can make a go of it without selling animals.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

not that i know of. and this veterinary course does not need hands on although i hope to be doing hands on voluntary work at vets


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

a grooming parlour would be a good idea, theres a pet shop near me with one and its always packed on weekends : victory: they dont seem to work well as a sole buisness but i imagine as an extra earner for a petshop it'd be pretty successfull. you could sell all the shampoos and stuff aswell...


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

you need qualifications or so many years experience to do animal care, as for Veterinary nursing I do believe its the same and hold a qualification in Animal care


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

if you go back to where i put the link up, you will see that i dont need all that. and i think it would be very unfare if they only let people with experiance of what they want to study, or that done well in there GCSEs do the courses they want to do.


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> or that done well in there GCSEs do the courses they want to do.


Pretty much every college course requires some GCSEs. At least at a pass grade. These online courses may not though. Since they are designed to be easy for everyone to access.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

the only reason i am doing home learning courses is because i cant get to any colleges that do them. and so this is the only way i can get a quailification


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> if you go back to where i put the link up, you will see that i dont need all that. and i think it would be very unfare if they only let people with experiance of what they want to study, or that done well in there GCSEs do the courses they want to do.


not unfair, why accept people to a course that they cant cope with! 

to do HNC animal care you need 1 pass at Advanced Level or equivalent OR relevant life experience will be taken into account when considering
applications for this programme.

or 

even the dead easy FD level one in animal care you need 4 GCSEs at grade D OR Level 1 qualification in a related subject OR “Life experience” will also be taken into account when considering applications from mature students. In addition two satisfactory references are required.


any course that says you need nothing to enter I would say is not really worth doing


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

well i wouldnt be able to do them other wise, yes i have loads of experiance with
animals. but i have no really qualifications for these courses. i have 1 C and 1 D gcse. and thats it really


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> well i wouldnt be able to do them other wise, yes i have loads of experiance with
> animals. but i have no really qualifications for these courses. i have 1 C and 1 D gcse. and thats it really


Do you even know how to run a business, its ok getting all these qualifications on animal care but what about the business side, book keeping etc.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have 3 friend who all run businesses and they are teaching me all i need to know as well as there is a free business work shop i can do locally teaching me how to do it all as well


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## Lenor (Jul 24, 2009)

Had a look at the veterinary care assistant course - just be careful once you've done it you don't style yourself as more than you are - it doesn't make you a veterinary nurse or even anything close, it's designed to give you some extra knowledge so that if you were to apply to a vet nursing course you would have an edge. May well still provide some useful info for running a petshop but if you advertise it as a vet nursing course it may give people the wrong idea, you don't want people thinking they've been given advice from a qualified vet nurse and then if anything goes wrong have them try and get you in trouble for misrepresenting yourself. not saying you're trying to do that but it's already been mangled over the course of this forum discussion so it's easy for people to misinterpret things.
Glad you're going at this at a more measured pace now, much better than stressing yourself out trying to be ready to open in may


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

well yeah, i must admit i was aiming abit high to have it open in may, at the moment i am writing down all my ideas for the shop and putting them into a folder so that i dont forget any lol. i would like to do as many courses as possible so that i have as much knowlegde as possible, as well as some hands on work in the form of voluntary work. i am planning to have all the certs ect that i gain from my courses framed and have them on the wall behind the counter, to show that i am knowledgable and to remind me of what i have achived every time i walk into my shop


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> if you go back to where i put the link up, you will see that i dont need all that. and *i think it would be very unfare if they only let people with experiance of what they want to study, or that done well in there GCSEs do the courses they want to do*.


So if your dream was to be a doctor do you think you should be allowed onto a Medicine degree regardless of qualifications? It's not unfair at all. There has to be some means of selecting who is suitable for a particular course. Otherwise it may be a waste of both their time and yours.

You need to seriously read up on these qualifications you're considering. I very much doubt most of them will be of any use in employment. Which means you're very unlikely to get funding for them.

I apologise for being so blunt, but you seem to want everything handed to you on a plate. You want courses paid for. You want your business start-up paid for. You're full of excuses - no jobs around there, no courses you can get to. You're hardly in the middle of nowhere from what you've said before.

You've put a huge amount of time into planning for a venture that may well never happen. If you'd put it into searching for a job or decent training you could already be on your way to getting that shop of yours. But the only way you'll get it is the same way the rest of us achieve our dreams. By hard, hard work.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

vonnie said:


> So if your dream was to be a doctor do you think you should be allowed onto a Medicine degree regardless of qualifications? It's not unfair at all. There has to be some means of selecting who is suitable for a particular course. Otherwise it may be a waste of both their time and yours.
> 
> You need to seriously read up on these qualifications you're considering. I very much doubt most of them will be of any use in employment. Which means you're very unlikely to get funding for them.
> 
> ...


*i am putting my efforts into training. i have searched many courses, some being the same as others with diffrent people but they may be cheaper and/or more indepth. and the qualification may be better.*


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I looked on the site you linked and I can't find anywhere that it says that it's accredited by an authentic awarding body. In fact it doesn't say they mean anything, and I find it worrying that you can 'advertise your course' on the site, like anyone can go on it and put a course up and rake in the money. You do have to be careful. Often even the accredited ones are of a really low level, level one is primary school, level 3 is only GCSE, so it may not be as good as you think it is. I'm really suspicious of all these online courses, I would go to a site that I KNEW was trusted, like the open University etc. 

Other than that it does seem you are atleast saying the right things now, whether you go through with them or not is down to you. 

I personally wouldn't want to buy an animal from a pet store like pets at home again now I am more aware of the places that the animals come from, even though my degus are 5 now and are doing really well. I would buy from somone that I could trust where it came from, and I also prefer to buy from shops that have a specialist area, I buy reptiles from specialist reptile shops but I thin it sucks that they all sell APHs now, and birds and all sorts... it puts me of. I would buy exotics from a specialist exotic store as long as the staff was very knowledgable and all that basic stuff, clean cages etc. 

I hate that it is so easy to get whatever you want now though, I think if you want something enough you research, research research and then find a reputable breeder, I don't think that everything should be as 'convieniant' as it is now because too many people impulse buy. 

Are you still planning on selling exotic mammals and reptiles? or just bunnies, rats, mice...? (I didn't read the whole thread post for post, sorry if you already said)


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

em_40 said:


> I looked on the site you linked and I can't find anywhere that it says that it's accredited by an authentic awarding body. In fact it doesn't say they mean anything, and I find it worrying that you can 'advertise your course' on the site, like anyone can go on it and put a course up and rake in the money. You do have to be careful. Often even the accredited ones are of a really low level, level one is primary school, level 3 is only GCSE, so it may not be as good as you think it is. I'm really suspicious of all these online courses, I would go to a site that I KNEW was trusted, like the open University etc.
> 
> *it does state on that site who does the courses, i have been on the websites of each course i want to do. level 1 = GCSE, level2-3 = A level*
> 
> ...


*yes i am still planning to sell them as i want to be diffrent from most other pet shops, and this is my plan for my shop to succed*


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## DarkCarmen (May 17, 2009)

on the whole animal returns subject I'm sure their is some law etc relating to this, I saw this on a bbc3 program (think it was last year)which was about trading standard type things for example what are your rights if you accidentally break something in a shop etc
anyway they did one of those surveys on the street asking people if they brought an animal and it died/ill etc could they return it and get refund nearly all people said no when the answer was yes and it had the information explaning it which i can't remember but the part I do remember that it was 7 days.
but i wouldn't give people too long otherwise you'l get impluse buyers and people taking advantage of it.

to be honest animals in barred or glass cages always get bothered by people poking fingers in, putting food in, blowing aie at them or in the glass cages having people tap, knock or smack the glass..... some people just can't bloody help themselfs even when there's signs up saying not too they still do it be it pet shop or zoo....... idiots liked to stick them in a cage see how they like it:devil:


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

thing is... and im gonna get a slating here. not ALL pet shops are bad. I work voluntarily in a small pet shop around my work hours and large animal collection of my own, NO animal is sold to impulse buyers, every prospective client is questioned on their proposed care methods, if the set ups etc are not right the animal is not sold until it is and home visits for set up checks are also done. logs of names, addresses and contact numbers are kept for all animal sales and they must be over 18. we give out insurance trials with all exotics and full and correct care advice is given. 

after care is also available for any concerns etc. our prices are not the lowest but the kits dont leave anything out like some places do. for example... a bearded dragon set up comes with the following:
4x2x2 wooden viv, 10.0 uv tube, starter motor, infra red bulb, bulb guard, dimmer thermostat, and supplements - calcium/nutrobal with the advice to keep young dragons on kitchen roll/lino only changing once adult and even then they are made aware of the risks of impaction etc.

alll livestock is sourced from vetted local breeders (myself included) and all are 100% healthy and guaranteed feeding. animal sales are taken very seriously. many people have been turned away for having the wrong equipment. 

its the bad pet shops that give the few good genuine ones a bad name....

edit to say to op: you will not make any money running a pet shop just by selling something different, to look after them properly for the time you have them in you will make a LOSS on livestock. you need to consider the costs of running the shop eg £600+ for premises per month, electric, staff and stock costs.. you need a good sound knowledge of how a business is run regardless of what you sell. online courses dont make you an expert, experience does.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

i dont think all pet shops are bad, however one thing iv noticed a lot is that reptile shops tend to question prospective owners much more throughly than the 'small furry animal' type pet shops. 

i freely admit that i prefer to buy from breeders but this is personal preferance, and if i cant find a good breeder i will buy from pet shops (though this is usually only with reps). for one thing, direct from breeder is a hell of a lot cheaper :whistling2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> *this thread is not for arguing, it is for a disscution*.
> 
> can people please tell me how they feel about animals being sold in pet shops. all comments will be taken on board!
> 
> ...


So you'll be doing all these courses before May??? :gasp:


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> So you'll be doing all these courses before May??? :gasp:


No, the OP's plans are "on hold" for about 5 years so she can do these courses and learn to drive etc prior to opening a shop.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

annsimpson1 said:


> Im personally would like to see NO animals sold in shops, the shop can make enough money from a good range of products and can advertise/ have a breeders list/ notice board etc of where any prospective buyer can source the animal they want. You don't go into a saddlers/horse feed shop to buy a horse so why a pet shop for an animal, there are to many impulse buys and no amount of care and good advise can ensure a good home I also think that any new owner should wish to see the sort of home their animal comes from. I wouldn't think that the bulk of the income comes from livestock, there is a good petshop where we live that has an enormous selection of sundries, it also has a grooming parlour but no livestock so a petshop can make a go of it without selling animals.


A shop local to me is doing this - not selling animals but doing open days for information on their correct care, and just giving out breeders lists and selling supplies. I've offered to do the rat day. Cant wait, about time we had a decent pet shop (and I've visited, and it is very decent!).


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

storm said:


> edit to say to op: you will not make any money running a pet shop just by selling something different, to look after them properly for the time you have them in you will make a LOSS on livestock. you need to consider the costs of running the shop eg £600+ for premises per month, electric, staff and stock costs.. you need a good sound knowledge of how a business is run regardless of what you sell. online courses dont make you an expert, experience does.


what i was meaning when i said these are the only way my shop will successed, it that they will be what are bringing the customers in, and before you say "well why dont you just keep them on show and not sell them!" i would but i would like to give people the oppatunity to own something diffrent and as i have said care sheets, monthly talks, books and some dvds will be avalible for each animal as well.

i never said that the HOME LEARNING COURSES would make me an expert, i mearly said they would expand my knowledge.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You do realise that most care books aren't worth the paper they're written on? You need to get people to really research. If you allow someone to walk into the shop, buy an animal on impulse, and just give them a book to teach them the basics and a "starter kit" (which most people will assume is good for life, and in the case of rats and the Pennine starter kit is far too small for even kittens), you're doing those animals a disservice.

Will you be stocking puppies and kittens? And if not, why not?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> You do realise that most care books aren't worth the paper they're written on? You need to get people to really research. If you allow someone to walk into the shop, buy an animal on impulse, and just give them a book to teach them the basics and a "starter kit" (which most people will assume is good for life, and in the case of rats and the Pennine starter kit is far too small for even kittens), you're doing those animals a disservice.
> 
> *they will be able to buy a book and/or a dvd. they will also be given a detailed care sheet that will be written up by myself. i will also be doing events each month to teach people how to care for the animals. these talks will cover handling, set-ups, feeding, medical care and much more. the public will be able to learn about and interact with the animal that i will be selling. all customers will be advised to come to one of the talks before buying the animal of there choice. the starter kits that i am planning to sell will last the animal for life. (really the only thing starter about it will be the food and bedding as it will only be enough to start them off). they will be big enough to house 1 animal for its entire life (or 2 animals if they must be kept in groups).*
> 
> Will you be stocking puppies and kittens? And if not, why not?


*no i wont be stocking puppys and kittens as there are so many people breeding them where i live and i will not have the space to house them and excersice them. but i will happliy advertise them in the window*


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