# Is my tortoise a healthy weight



## Herbie and Jurassicblue

Hello my tortoise is more or less two years old now and I'm not sure if he is a healthy weight I estimated his weight to be around 184 grams and I don't know if that is healthy or not


----------



## purplepixie

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Hello my tortoise is more or less two years old now and I'm not sure if he is a healthy weight I estimated his weight to be around 184 grams and I don't know if that is healthy or not



If the picture of your tortoise is above your name, then it looks like he/she is growing to fast. But a better picture would help us to help you:0)
When you can see wide white lines around the scutes its a sign of fast growth. Which in turn can lead to a lumpy tortoise.
Weighing once a month can help you get an idea of how fast they are growing. A gain of no more than 2-3 grms a month is a good guide to good growth:0)


----------



## Herbie and Jurassicblue

purplepixie said:


> If the picture of your tortoise is above your name, then it looks like he/she is growing to fast. But a better picture would help us to help you:0)
> When you can see wide white lines around the scutes its a sign of fast growth. Which in turn can lead to a lumpy tortoise.
> Weighing once a month can help you get an idea of how fast they are growing. A gain of no more than 2-3 grms a month is a good guide to good growth:0)


Thanks for the help he has been gaining about that much per month hes around the length he should be hes a little under 4inches but my scales broke last week he stopped showing the white rings and has no lumps but I will keep an eye on that though just to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'll add some more recent pics of him bellow. He has lost a little bit of weight because he hasn't been eating as much because of it being winter
















hes in his bath in these so that's why hes in a glass thing.


----------



## purplepixie

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Thanks for the help he has been gaining about that much per month hes around the length he should be hes a little under 4inches but my scales broke last week he stopped showing the white rings and has no lumps but I will keep an eye on that though just to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'll add some more recent pics of him bellow. He has lost a little bit of weight because he hasn't been eating as much because of it being winter
> View attachment 370063
> 
> View attachment 370064
> 
> hes in his bath in these so that's why hes in a glass thing.


I hate to say this, but your tortoise is growing far to fast, and is showing signs of pyramiding. They pyramiding is only slight, and maybe was done before you had him/her:0) 
You cannot sex a HORSFIELD, (there is no E in Horsfield) until they are much bigger. And can fool any expert:0)


----------



## SueBoyle

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Hello my tortoise is more or less two years old now and I'm not sure if he is a healthy weight I estimated his weight to be around 184 grams and I don't know if that is healthy or not


A two year old horsfield tortoise grown in line with its wild counterparts would be roughly 40grams. Growth lines should be hardly visible or no more than a fine pencil line. There should never be visible lines of wide growth. Your tortoise is around the size/weight of a 5 year old. Remember it should take 15 years or much to reach adulthood, so growing too fast will result in problems along the way, not least metabolic bone disease. Horsfields have evolved to only eat for 3-4 months of the year in nature, so feeding daily for 12 months of the year in captivity will result in something that looks nothing like its little wild ‘cousins’. Have look here www.tortsmad.com/russians.htm


----------



## LiasisUK

Looks fine. 

White growth lines are a good thing. It is possible for them to show this and grow healthily.


----------



## Shellsfeathers&fur

LiasisUK said:


> Looks fine.
> 
> White growth lines are a good thing. It is possible for them to show this and grow healthily.


Really?


----------



## LiasisUK

Yes, I have seen plenty of baby tortoises that have had white growth lines grow with a healthy shell shape. 

In my experience pyramiding is usually in animals that are too small for their age, rather than those that are 'growing too fast'.


----------



## Shellsfeathers&fur

LiasisUK said:


> Yes, I have seen plenty of baby tortoises that have had white growth lines grow with a healthy shell shape.
> 
> In my experience pyramiding is usually in animals that are too small for their age, rather than those that are 'growing too fast'.


That is not a healthy looking one though round and shiny looking. Not quite sure about the animals being too small for their age?


----------



## LiasisUK

Hmm yes I guess it is a bit round. I did not look that closely at the image, which is my bad, but I have certainly seen worse. 

Maybe the OP could confirm what the animal is being fed


----------



## purplepixie

LiasisUK said:


> Looks fine.
> 
> White growth lines are a good thing. It is possible for them to show this and grow healthily.


So speaks someone who has little experience:0)


LiasisUK said:


> Yes, I have seen plenty of baby tortoises that have had white growth lines grow with a healthy shell shape.
> 
> In my experience pyramiding is usually in animals that are too small for their age, rather than those that are 'growing too fast'.



Its not when they are small they have pyramiding, but as they grow. Incorrect husbandry is the cause:0)


----------



## LiasisUK

purplepixie said:


> So speaks someone who has little experience:0)
> 
> Its not when they are small they have pyramiding, but as they grow. Incorrect husbandry is the cause:0)


OK  

White growth lines are genuinely not always something to worry about, it is a sign of growth, and all tortoises grow thus it does not indicate anything negative. As I say I have seen plenty of tortoises with white growth lines AND exhibit healthy growth. My point was simply that these lines shouldn't be immediately considered negative, which is what your post suggested. 

You misunderstood; I was not saying that pyramiding is only present in small individuals I was saying that animals that are pyramided are usually smaller than those that aren't; regardless of age.


----------



## purplepixie

LiasisUK said:


> OK
> 
> White growth lines are genuinely not always something to worry about, it is a sign of growth, and all tortoises grow thus it does not indicate anything negative. As I say I have seen plenty of tortoises with white growth lines AND exhibit healthy growth. My point was simply that these lines shouldn't be immediately considered negative, which is what your post suggested.
> 
> You misunderstood; I was not saying that pyramiding is only present in small individuals I was saying that animals that are pyramided are usually smaller than those that aren't; regardless of age.



Ok lets just say a growth rate of 2-3grms a month is a good guide to having smooth tortoises, anything more an pyramiding and white lines will be obvious:0)


----------



## LiasisUK

If that's for all tortoises then that's too sweeping of a statement, if that's specific for Horsfield's then sure!


----------



## purplepixie

LiasisUK said:


> If that's for all tortoises then that's too sweeping of a statement, if that's specific for Horsfield's then sure!


We were talking horsfields I think.:0)
But it applies to med tortoises. Not larger species like Leopards and sulcatas to name a few:0)


----------



## LiasisUK

Yes i thought so, but clarity is important for others reading


----------



## SueBoyle

LiasisUK said:


> If that's for all tortoises then that's too sweeping of a statement, if that's specific for Horsfield's then sure!


It applies to ALL tortoises. Even the huge Galapagos tortoises only have small growth lines compared to their eventual size. Fast growth means problems within the shell structure. As for having seen lots of tortoises with wide growth lines, yes haven’t we all, it does not mean they are automatically healthy though. When you have worked with rescue animals (and not just tortoises) the ignorance of some keepers, or the results shown on their animals, is heartbreaking. Always look at the wild counterparts and realise that this is evolution over thousands of years. If we treat them as little humans as in feeding continually, bathing them to keep them hydrated because we haven’t given them the correct habitat, clipping nails and beaks for the same reason and moving them in and out of the house because we think they feel heat/cold the same way as we do, then we (or the animal) is going to suffer long term. Horsfields in particular are rather flattened compared with Med tortoises, so that they can construct and live in tunnels which are part of their survival mechanism. Look at most pet horsfield tortoises and they’re like overstuffed pies with the area of shell between plastron and carapace looking like a wide band instead of a fine hardly visible line. This cannot be undone once it’s happened and so it cannot exhibit natural behaviours. 
I’d love to know where you get your info, but thinking more and more it’s self taught which is a shame when you think that a tortoise should live in excess of 100 years. 
No-one can tell you how to care for your tortoises that is obvious, but please don’t advise others to do the same thing.
Sorry if this comes across as harsh.


----------



## SueBoyle

purplepixie said:


> We were talking horsfields I think.:0)
> But it applies to med tortoises. Not larger species like Leopards and sulcatas to name a few:0)


Had some terribly pyramided leopards some time back, they’re all susceptible to metabolic bone disease and pyramiding sadly.


----------



## LiasisUK

SueBoyle said:


> it does not mean they are automatically healthy though


And it also does not mean they are unhealthy, which was my main point. So we agree...



SueBoyle said:


> It applies to ALL tortoises


I was referring to the weights quoted, which are incorrect if generalising across all tortoises.



SueBoyle said:


> I’d love to know where you get your info, but thinking more and more it’s self taught which is a shame when you think that a tortoise should live in excess of 100 years.
> No-one can tell you how to care for your tortoises that is obvious, but please don’t advise others to do the same thing.
> Sorry if this comes across as harsh.


I only keep SE Asian tropical tortoise species, all have healthy shell growth, all show different growth rates to those quoted and all have exhibited white lines at some point.

I have also worked with various Med species and have seen a lot of badly kept tortoises, as well as perfectly healthy ones of course.

I don't understand your points about info being self-taught, isn't all of yours as well? A lot of which also I don't agree with. It's fine to not agree. Also don't understand the point about their potential lifespan, those 2 points don't make sense to me in the same sentence, they are not connected.
Your posts don't come across as harsh just a lack of understanding of what I'm saying, but again that is fine as some people just don't understand each other


----------

