# How do you keep mealworms clean for your geckos?



## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Basically i breed mealworms for my leopard geckos, and i always spend hours sifting through my mealworm tub because it always goes mouldy or smells, and i dont want my geckos eating mealworms that smell bad or are in moudly enviroments. How do i stop this? As it seems alot of effort for mealworms, there must be an easier way?!

of course it is worth it for my leos but just wondering if there was an easier way to keeping mealworms clean and non smelly!


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## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

Keep them in bare bottom tubs and just add food in bowls?


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I wouldnt even feed reptiles mealworms....they are low in nutrients, high in fat and their chitin shell is hard to digest and been known to cause Gastrointestinal impaction. You'd be doing a MUCH better choice by sticking to Waxworms, Hornworms or Silkworms. NEVER give a Gecko any Butterworms due to the fact that they have urticating hairs on them that cause allergic reactions, especially in Leopards. Other than that, Butterworms are great for any lizard that ISN'T a Gecko and higher in calcium than waxworms even.

Personally, I would use waxworms, crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms and tobacco hornworms for the healthiest happiest Leopard.


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## Miss Lily (Oct 3, 2008)

I keep mine in bran in an open topped tub. They get fed with chunks of apple, carrot, parsnip and wild rocket leaves. When it looks like they have eaten a lot of the bran then I sieve them to get rid of the poop and put them back in the tub with more bran. They need the open top so air can circulate or the bran will become damp and mouldy, leading to mould and mites, etc.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

daz30347 said:


> Keep them in bare bottom tubs and just add food in bowls?


Unfourtently i cant keep them in bare bottom tubs as i breed them and they need the oats i use as the substrate to lay eggs in, i was just hoping there may be an easier solution to cleaning them :\ otherwise i would probaly do that yes.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> I wouldnt even feed reptiles mealworms....they are low in nutrients, high in fat and their chitin shell is hard to digest and been known to cause Gastrointestinal impaction. You'd be doing a MUCH better choice by sticking to Waxworms, Hornworms or Silkworms. NEVER give a Gecko any Butterworms due to the fact that they have urticating hairs on them that cause allergic reactions, especially in Leopards. Other than that, Butterworms are great for any lizard that ISN'T a Gecko and higher in calcium than waxworms even.
> 
> Personally, I would use waxworms, crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms and tobacco hornworms for the healthiest happiest Leopard.


 
Do you know i have never heard someone say not to feed leopards mealworms, i didnt realise that at all! I also feed them a mixture of waxworms, locusts and crickets, but iv always been told to feed leopards mealies and for them to have a dish of mealies with powder in at all time for them to feed on. iv never heard of tabacco hornworms? Where would i get those from?


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Miss Lily said:


> I keep mine in bran in an open topped tub. They get fed with chunks of apple, carrot, parsnip and wild rocket leaves. When it looks like they have eaten a lot of the bran then I sieve them to get rid of the poop and put them back in the tub with more bran. They need the open top so air can circulate or the bran will become damp and mouldy, leading to mould and mites, etc.


 
Maybe thats where im going wrong then, because i have the lid on, but only occasionally, so is there a quicker way to sive through and keep them clean, but it takes me literally over an hour to do it.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I wouldnt even feed reptiles mealworms....they are low in nutrients, high in fat and their chitin shell is hard to digest and been known to cause Gastrointestinal impaction. You'd be doing a MUCH better choice by sticking to Waxworms, Hornworms or Silkworms. NEVER give a Gecko any Butterworms due to the fact that they have urticating hairs on them that cause allergic reactions, especially in Leopards. Other than that, Butterworms are great for any lizard that ISN'T a Gecko and higher in calcium than waxworms even.
> 
> Personally, I would use waxworms, crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms and tobacco hornworms for the healthiest happiest Leopard.


Your info is wrong I'm afraid. The beetles are the ones with high chitin and are not good for reptiles. The worms themselves are fine.

I keep mine in a bare bottom and breed them. They lay in cork bark pieces.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> I wouldnt even feed reptiles mealworms....*they are low in nutrients, high in fat and their chitin shell is hard to digest and been known to cause Gastrointestinal impaction*. You'd be doing a MUCH better choice by sticking to Waxworms, Hornworms or Silkworms. NEVER give a Gecko any Butterworms due to the fact that they have urticating hairs on them that cause allergic reactions, especially in Leopards. Other than that, Butterworms are great for any lizard that ISN'T a Gecko and higher in calcium than waxworms even.
> 
> Personally, I would use waxworms, crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms and tobacco hornworms for the healthiest happiest Leopard.


this is not accurate, lots of breeders/keepers especially the ones with bigger numbers feed mainly mealies.




Lozzypozz said:


> Do you know i have never heard someone say not to feed leopards mealworms, i didnt realise that at all! I also feed them a mixture of waxworms, locusts and crickets, but iv always been told to feed leopards mealies and for them to have a dish of mealies with powder in at all time for them to feed on. iv never heard of tabacco hornworms? Where would i get those from?


the no mealworms thing is very old and out of date info.

as long as your leos are kept at the right temperatures they`ll digest mealworms fine.


if your oats are going mouldy, maybe you`re feeding them too much veg?
or have you got a lid on them?
mine are breeding in just muesli with a piece of carrot once a week for moisture


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## Miss Lily (Oct 3, 2008)

I only have one crix tub worth of mealies though. Don't know if there's a quicker way, but I've always just sieved them, but they don't need a lid. Sometimes you can get a really stinky lot from the pet shop, usually when they've eaten all the bran and are squirming around in their poop. Not nice, the smell is horrendous! It also helps to start off with a nice clean tub - I always try to get mine on or the day after the shop gets it's delivery. It also helps to change their food regularly too, that's if they don't munch their way through it all first!

What do you keep them in and how many have you got (not an actual count, lol)? I take it you have a large quantity and lots of geckos to feed. I keep my worms in a large margarine tub.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Chris18 said:


> Your info is wrong I'm afraid. The beetles are the ones with high chitin and are not good for reptiles. The worms themselves are fine.
> 
> I keep mine in a bare bottom and breed them. They lay in cork bark pieces.


 
I dont think im understanding bare bottom correctly, i thought it meant with no substrate? And cork bark pieces? Where would i get those from?


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> this is not accurate, lots of breeders/keepers especially the ones with bigger numbers feed mainly mealies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah all the temps and everything is fine, the leos are eating them happily, just want to make sure the mealies are kept clean, and it could possibly be that im feeding them too much then. How long shall i leave the lettuce/carrots in before i take them out because my mealies dont eat it all, and some people have told me that you just leave everything in there and they eventually eat it, but i dont want to do this, because of smell etc.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Lozzypozz said:


> I dont think im understanding bare bottom correctly, i thought it meant with no substrate? And cork bark pieces? Where would i get those from?


Yep, I have no substrate, only cork bark pieces in the tub and then put food on the bottom and ontop of the cork bark for the beetles to get it too.

You can get them from most reptile shops or online somewhere, not the cheapest things though.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Miss Lily said:


> I only have one crix tub worth of mealies though. Don't know if there's a quicker way, but I've always just sieved them, but they don't need a lid. Sometimes you can get a really stinky lot from the pet shop, usually when they've eaten all the bran and are squirming around in their poop. Not nice, the smell is horrendous! It also helps to start off with a nice clean tub - I always try to get mine on or the day after the shop gets it's delivery. It also helps to change their food regularly too, that's if they don't munch their way through it all first!
> 
> What do you keep them in and how many have you got (not an actual count, lol)? I take it you have a large quantity and lots of geckos to feed. I keep my worms in a large margarine tub.


Ahh ok so maybe find out when the reptile shop delivery is and get them then, because i am finding that the mealworms im getting docoem quite smelly. I keep mine in a large plastic tub and i have about 500 grams worth of mealworms, including beatles, and the larvae. So it does take a while yeah lol, and i have 8 geckos and a blue tounge skink, so not too many reptiles, but they eat alot! Lol And at the moment i keep my mealworms in porrigde oats, and i feed them lettuce/carrots/patato peelings. Although im worried i may be feeding them too much, i just cant work it out as they just keep stinking. ANd the tub is clean, and sifting through i do find the food, so maybe i am feeding them too much?


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## Miss Lily (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't use oats, but was thinking about adding some to this new lot as they get through the bran really fast! Iirc breeding them does get a bit smelly for some reason, but they are really easy to breed! Maybe someone who breeds/keeps them on a larger scale may offer more advice.


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## Ben678 (Jul 29, 2009)

sorry to add but you can get cork bark from many online shops 
such as 
livefoods.co.uk


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

@ Chris18 and Pigglywiggly

I'm sorry but you are both mistaken. New studies have shown mealworms outer shell can be very hard to digest, they are very high in fat and low in nutrients. I'm just giving advice, but if you want to feed your Leopard Gecko something that may cause it to require a surgery in the future that it will not likely survive, then it will be on your conscience.

I have given my input which is indeed a fact. Take it if u want it, but don't sit there and tell me that I am incorrect. I think after 25 years of keeping reptiles I might know a thing or 2 about them.

Also, I have a question for you both, since you are Leopard Gecko experts......How often do Leos require a dusting with D3 supplement?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

depends entirely on your set up and wether you use uv.

my leos are fine thanks for asking, they`re kept at the right temps and digest their food fine.
thats why they have stomach acid


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> @ Chris18 and Pigglywiggly
> 
> I'm sorry but you are both mistaken. New studies have shown mealworms outer shell can be very hard to digest, they are very high in fat and low in nutrients. I'm just giving advice, but if you want to feed your Leopard Gecko something that may cause it to require a surgery in the future that it will not likely survive, then it will be on your conscience.
> 
> ...


I do not keep leopard geckos.... It's common knowledge that ALOT of breeders feed soley meal worm diets and wouldn't do so if it ended in trouble.
The worms are perfectly soft and digestible with correct thermoregulation.

Personally I prefer to not feed them soley to any of my reptiles, but in balance with roaches, crickets and locust, never had a problem with them and never found an undigested one in poo.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> depends entirely on your set up and wether you use uv.


That is the correct answer. Since they are nocturnal, it wouldnt make sense to administer something only proccessed via sunlight. However, recent studies have shown Leo actually benefit from UVB, therefore ONLY give them D3 if u have UVB, otherwise they won't process it and will die or get sick from Vitamin D overdose.




Chris18 said:


> I do not keep leopard geckos.... It's common knowledge that ALOT of breeders feed soley meal worm diets and wouldn't do so if it ended in trouble.
> The worms are perfectly soft and digestible with correct thermoregulation.


Most Frilled Dragon breeders feed their adults MICE, despite it being absolutely terrible for the lizards themselves and the cholesterol can cause fatty liver disease, kidney failure, tumors, fatty build-up spot (superficial and occular). Just because it is common practice doesnt mean it's a good thing. Your kids will eat candy every night for dinner if you LET them, but that doesnt mean it is good for them.



Chris18 said:


> Personally I prefer to not feed them soley to any of my reptiles, but in balance with roaches, crickets and locust, never had a problem with them and never found an undigested one in poo.


No animal on this planet should be fed a diet SOLELY based on any single food item. All animals will recieve more variety of nutrients, vitamins and minerals from different foods as well as prevent them from getting depressed by getting sick and tired of the same ol' food everyday (with the exception of snakes). Even something like gutloading your CRICKETS with the same thing isn't good.....you should alternate feeding them protein-based foods like Cichlid pellets w/ vegetable matter to achieve maximum nutrition and vitamin/mineral intake.

Carnivorous lizards especially will benefit more from crickets gutloaded with vegetable matter, however only the keeper itself knows how much of each food their animal consumes, so it's up to their better judgement to decide which is more needed via gutloading. Obviously if u have a Bearded Dragon/Blue-tongued Skink that doesn't like greens much, the crickets and worms should be fed almost ENTIRELY vegetation. My Frilled won't eat vegetation, so I lean more towards gutloading w/ veggies.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Miss Lily said:


> I don't use oats, but was thinking about adding some to this new lot as they get through the bran really fast! Iirc breeding them does get a bit smelly for some reason, but they are really easy to breed! Maybe someone who breeds/keeps them on a larger scale may offer more advice.


Hmm ok i may try bran then, mmm maybe someone will come on here who breeds on a large scale then, but thankyou for your help so far! Beautiful chameleons by the way!  :mf_dribble:


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Ben678 said:


> sorry to add but you can get cork bark from many online shops
> such as
> livefoods.co.uk


 
Thanks! Livefood is an excellent website, didnt realise they had it on there!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

dont know if you know, but bran is very deficient in calcium


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> dont know if you know, but bran is very deficient in calcium


No i didnt, maybe stick to porridge oats then.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> That is the correct answer. Since they are nocturnal, it wouldnt make sense to administer something only proccessed via sunlight. However, recent studies have shown Leo actually benefit from UVB, therefore ONLY give them D3 if u have UVB, otherwise they won't process it and will die or get sick from Vitamin D overdose.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

So im slightly confused now, do i feed my geckos mealworms or no? Because i have never heard of not feeding them mealworms,but i want the best for my leos, Im not saying i dont believe you, just that very curious about how all of this works?


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> That is the correct answer. Since they are nocturnal, it wouldnt make sense to administer something only proccessed via sunlight. However, recent studies have shown Leo actually benefit from UVB, therefore ONLY give them D3 if u have UVB, otherwise they won't process it and will die or get sick from Vitamin D overdose.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first statement is wrong IMO.
D3 is what the reptiles receive from the UV, which allows the absorption of calcium, without it calcium is useless and will just pass through the body unprocessed, leading to MBD. Therefore they rely on the D3 supplement to process the calcium without the use of UV bulbs.

While a variety is good, like you said it's good for mental well being, you can feed a single feeder as long as they're gut loaded properly to fulfill the animals nutritional needs. Of course a lot of information is lacking in this area regarding reptiles. We don't know how much protein or fat or other nutrients they require so you can feed all the variety you want and never meet the nutritional need of the animal.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Thank-you for the advice everybody so far! Hopefully ill get to the bottom of all this now.


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## jojo9380 (Oct 12, 2011)

Sorry to jump in here, but after reading this thread I'm a little confused about what I should be dusting the live food with for my Leopard Gecko! Only had him just over 2 weeks and am using Arkvits and Vetark calci dust.

Arkvits is a complementary supplement which provides enhanced levels of vitamins A,C and E plus extra calcium to help reptiles maintain their levels of essential vitamins and minerals to combat stress and disease.
Arkvits are especially valuable in adult tortoises, iguanas and other Large lizards, and snakes. 


Calci-Dust is a pure, natural calcium compound, ground superfine for maximum digestibility and to stick to all food, vegetables, fruit, crickets and mealworms.
For use in vivaria with good quality UV light, therefore no need for additional vitamin D3.
For healthy bone growth animals must have vitamin D3 available to be able to obtain calcium from their food.
In diurnal reptiles (those awake during the day) which bask this may be made in the skin by UVB from specific high quality bulbs, or it may be included in a full spectrum multivitamin product like Vetark Nutrobal or Vetark Arkvits.

I'm not using UV lighting. Am I using the correct products?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

how old is your leo?
if its a baby, i`d be using nutrobal and calcium dust 
arkvits is more aimed at adult leos that arnt growing.

here the link to vetarks website, have a read and see what you think.

Supplements


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## jojo9380 (Oct 12, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> how old is your leo?
> if its a baby, i`d be using nutrobal and calcium dust
> arkvits is more aimed at adult leos that arnt growing.
> 
> ...


He's only about 12 weeks old! I'll have a read now. Thank you.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Chris18 said:


> The first statement is wrong IMO.
> D3 is what the reptiles receive from the UV, which allows the absorption of calcium, without it calcium is useless and will just pass through the body unprocessed, leading to MBD. Therefore they rely on the D3 supplement to process the calcium without the use of UV bulbs.
> 
> While a variety is good, like you said it's good for mental well being, you can feed a single feeder as long as they're gut loaded properly to fulfill the animals nutritional needs. Of course a lot of information is lacking in this area regarding reptiles. We don't know how much protein or fat or other nutrients they require so you can feed all the variety you want and never meet the nutritional need of the animal.



I hope you have considered that fact that Leopard Geckos are NOCTURNAL and they retreat when the sun comes up in the wild. How do they process vitamin D in the wild if what you are saying is true? Nocturnal animals have evolved in ways we don't fully understand.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I hope you have considered that fact that Leopard Geckos are NOCTURNAL and they retreat when the sun comes up in the wild. How do they process vitamin D in the wild if what you are saying is true? Nocturnal animals have evolved in ways we don't fully understand.


they're not nocturnal, they're crepuscular meaning they come out at sunset (low levels of UV) and sunrise (low levels of UV)
I've read something recently and Crepuscular reptile's skin is more sensitive to UV meaning they can absorb it more effectively in less light conditions.
So in answer to your question, they do receive UV and in turn D3 from the sun


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

I am now really worried about what i should be feeding my geckos :| I dont want anything on my conscience, and as for what calcium stuff i use, i use nutrobal, is that ok?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

notrobals fine, i use that with pure calcium :2thumb:


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## pyromaniac (Aug 15, 2011)

Hey not sure if you have seen the post by freekygeeky on breeding and keeping meal worms... it is probably the best sorce of info ive found on keeping mealworms...

Check it out - http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/feeder/143883-mealworm-life-cycle.html

Hope this helps


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks everyone, i think iv got it now


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