# Energy conservation



## berbers

Any tips on dealing with the loomimg increase in energy bills? 

Ive got 3 vivs, each running a uv strip, CHE, and basking bulb.

Is there a way to cut the running cost without compromising thermal gradients and light cycles?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## spigotbush

i've been thinking on this myself too. on the whole it depends on your finances. you could set up a solar+battery set up, which may not cure it all depending on your situation but it will take some of the equipment if you match things up well. sadly even the second hand set ups can be quite pricey.
you could possibly insulate the vivs so that the ambient temps require the heaters to be on less or use a lower wattage for the same effect.
personally i am looking into going outdoors. mercifully for me most of the things i like are temperate so i can make use of outdoor enclosures over the summer at the very least. i quite like the idea of outdoor keeping anyway and had plans to do something but now it may prove more useful than i first thought.


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## Elly66

spigotbush said:


> i've been thinking on this myself too. on the whole it depends on your finances. you could set up a solar+battery set up, which may not cure it all depending on your situation but it will take some of the equipment if you match things up well. sadly even the second hand set ups can be quite pricey.
> you could possibly insulate the vivs so that the ambient temps require the heaters to be on less or use a lower wattage for the same effect.
> personally i am looking into going outdoors. mercifully for me most of the things i like are temperate so i can make use of outdoor enclosures over the summer at the very least. i quite like the idea of outdoor keeping anyway and had plans to do something but now it may prove more useful than i first thought.



How do you plan on keeping decent temperatures in an outside enclosure, baring in mind the UK isn't the warmest place?


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## Elly66

berbers said:


> Any tips on dealing with the loomimg increase in energy bills?
> 
> Ive got 3 vivs, each running a uv strip, CHE, and basking bulb.
> 
> Is there a way to cut the running cost without compromising thermal gradients and light cycles?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


We're going to be building a bigger viv for my young Royal and the plan is to double wall with insulation between them.


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## LiasisUK

Solar panels. That's the plan for us.


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## spigotbush

Elly66 said:


> How do you plan on keeping decent temperatures in an outside enclosure, baring in mind the UK isn't the warmest place?


the russian rat would almost certainly be ok all year round if the enclosure is built well and accounts for a proper burrow. if the weather turns too sour then the indoors stuff will be there and just need switching on. for the less cold tolerant species i would just have them out when the weather is suitable and bring them in when its not. it may not be free but it would still amount to a saving and if it gets as bad as they are suggesting then every little would be useful.

i would be thinking that i could possibly use some greenhouse glass in some spots to create a hotter end. i am also thinking that i could use solar heaters to basically create underfloor heating for the warm side, they are a fairly simple build in theory and can enhance the thermal store in the ground. plus of course i could still have lamps out there and let the thermostats come on if they are needed.

obviously i am not saying it would any species. its also going to be circumstantial when it comes to how the garden is positioned and things. it wouldnt suit everyone by any means but for me i think its a good option.


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## Jibbajabba

I was thinking about it - I fear that what we will see if an influx of animals let loose, given to a rescue center and sold for cheap.

The hard reality is - if you end up being unable to keep them financially, the only wise thing to do is indeed rehoming, especially if it means dropping care because of the strain.

Setting up solar power and batteries in the UK will be massively expensive, especially if you need it to produce the wattage of a ceramic for example. The cost involved will easily be high enough that you need years to break even . And I doubt any battery will be large enough to cover about 16hrs where you won't have enough daylight.

The only sensible thing will unfortunately be reducing your collection.

Same with cars, if you drive a car that does 13mpg in petrol and you drive 1k miles a week, you might be able to keep the car if the litre petrol costs 50p, but when it goes to 2.50 you may need to rethink depending on your personal circumstances .. .

I feel there is no nice way out of this. I am glad I am down to just one. So the opex is manageable ...

We bought an inflatable jaccuzzi during first lock down to get our son to love water .. average electricity cost for the four months we had it running 24/7 was 350 quid ... PER MONTH .... Guess what won't be coming out this summer - or rather won't be heated ...


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## ian14

The material of the enclosures will be an important factor.
Wooden vivs are pretty efficient with heat retention.
Those devoted to Exo terras and similar will need to have a rethink.
The obvious solution, while not aesthetically pleasing, will be to stick polystyrene boards to the sides and back.
Another consideration is the heat source.
If you ise a basking lamp, switch to a halogen bulb. A 50w halogen will easily provide the same output as a traditional 100w spot bulb.
Whats truly disgraceful and abhorrent in the current crisis is the profit of more than £20 billion made by just one oil company this year.


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## Malc

The media will have a field day when British Gas announce their profits next year. With so many energy companies going bust and BG's customer base swelled due to picking up those affected, and now the huge hike predicted in April and later again this winter they will be making a huge profit. - I don't always agree with governments but the call for windfall taxation and then using that to off set the cost for those in fuel poverty should be implemented.

Whilst Ian's suggestions are helpful, there isn't a lot that can be saved when you offset the cost of implementing those saving options. Will you save more by purchasing and swapping an all glass Exo Terra for a wooden viv, low wattage CHE or halogen, and possibly a new thermostat, compared to running the Exo terra in this period, considering the perditions are that things should return to normal in 18-24 months ?

Part of the problem is for those who have set ups that have 18mm wooden vivs, low energy heating, and live in houses where unheated over night the temperature drops to no more then 18c - There is not a lot more that they can do, other then swallow the rise in running costs when they come in.


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## arwen_7

I'm pretty lucky in regards to my house being stupidly well insulated. So even during winter, it rarely drops below 16-18c on the floor the snakes are kept in during the night. The wooden vivariums keep the heat in so well that when the day time temps change over to night time temps, it takes hours and hours for the CHE/heating to actually need to come on.
Generally the house heating comes on abot an hour before the vivarium heating rams up to day time temps, so that helps too - we still work from home so house heating is on for a few hours anyways.

The one major change I could make would be to swap rooms with my snakes. Just now they are in my north facing office. I could move them up a floor and into what is currently my bedroom on the south facing side of the house. The temperature difference betwen these two room on a winters day, with no heating can easy be 10 degrees. However my issue with that is during the summer that room gets stupid hot.... So much that I'd probably have to cool it at least some months of the summer to actually get a meaningful night time drop in temps within vivarums.


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## Swindinian

Frankly, I have no plan, and am going in blind, unprepared.

We live in a terraced property built in the 1880s.

Plus side is some thermal insulation from neighbours properties compared to a semi detached or detached house. The house isn’t huge but that also means less volume to heat.
But the layout of air bricks is such that a cool draught flows under the ground floorboards which can have a chilling effect.

I was hoping to move vivs from the attic down to the living/dining room in future years, thereby heat loss will at least rise up through the house, and offset central heating.

We have a newish combi boiler, so wouldn’t even be entertaining renewables for some time. But guess that will change within a decade?
I love the idea of drawing from thermal springs? 
Guessing they could do this in Bath, but perhaps not so viable in Pig Hill, Wiltshire.
I wanted to have solar panels installed when we had our attic converted, but costs and timelines were not favourable.

My medium term aim would be to have vivs stacked with temperates (corns) at the bottom, then rainbow boas, then Antaresia (spotted and stimsons), then jungle carpets at the top. However, I would want to try more pathogen screening, and I still don’t know whether it would be a risky idea to have boas near pythons.

Would love to keep European leopard rat snakes and Garden Tree boas, but unless and until I figure out the current menageri, those can just be dreams, along with Bismarck ringed, Sanzinia, Jamaican boas, white lips, bredli, oh and boeleni. 🤪


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## spigotbush

i dont think its ever a bad thing to make vivs that work as efficiently as possible. especially for hotter species. for wooden vivs you can just add insulation pretty easily. its only going to help with running costs. if you can use a lower power heater for the same effect then that can only be a good thing. 
its always good to assess your kit every now and then. if you can see some new tech or methods that make things more efficient its only ever going to make your hobby more affordable in the long run. 

the solar thing can be very effective, if you get the right set up. the trick is to match up what you want to do. i have friends who are really big into the off grid thing and have been to see homes which run almost entirely on solar and have a family and all the mod cons (fridges, tv's, computers etc). it seems like the biggest component that affects the use is batteries. the off grids seem to have a lot of love for submarine batteries, which make camper deep cycles look like AA batteries. 
i think its simply a matter of what your use case is, some folks stay on the grid with no batteries and just use what they need as its generated and sell the rest to the grid and when they are not generating they use the grid. which is fine but its more of a paper exercise to figure out where your savings sit. with a battery set up you can load and use your own supply and only ever take from the grid and top up if you need it (like in winter). a battery set up also has the advantage of being uninterruptible so for delicate species its an automatic safety against power cuts. 
of course the idea of fitting a solar array (or wind turbine) because running the vivs will get expensive is a bit mental. as malc said, if this all settles down again in a year or two, you will not be levelling out the finances of such an investment. if you want renewables then its about the house as a whole so you need to weigh up how that balances up.


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## Jibbajabba

A good insulation is expanding foam (although I wouldn't count that a cost saving exercise). I have covered the background of my 8x3x3 and I actually ended up with an insulation that was TOO good ... Meaning - I couldn't use plant growing lamps as they heated up the whole viv  

So there might be options if you need something functional yet pretty ...


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## al stotton

My tip would be to use insulation boards kingspan / celotex being two brands that spring to mind. Aside from the obvious 'lining' the outer viv ceiling and sides , my other tip is line the inside of the room door.
I did this many years ago on my snake room door with 50mm board attached using double sided tape and it certainly made some difference in retaining the overall room temp.
Fortunately in my new space I personally fitted triple glazed window units and a composite slab door and the walls /ceiling are insulated with kingspan.
Solar panel options will be something I'm going to explore this year,


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## Malc

What I can't seem to find is why all the news relates to the soring cost of gas, when the unit price of gas is so cheap compared to Electricity. I worked out out gas central heating consumes around 25p per day to heat the house and cook the main meal on each day. Our electric is working out at around £4.28 per day - and this is at todays rate, not the 54% increased rate due in April, or the next jump set for October... but why is electricity so much more costly....especially given the conversion to nuclear, wind and solar power and the decommissioning of coal fired power stations....


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## arwen_7

Production Vs demand I think.
At times of the day I'm sure the UK as a whole is probably in "the danger zone" for not producing enough to satisfy demands. Which is why certain power companies keep gas/oil power plants to prop up supply if the renewables (wind/solar/hydro) is low during those days.

Want a real kicker? Scotland now regularly meets its own energy demands from its own renewables. Yet a lot of us pay vastly more per unit for electrically than the SE of England. Even though it's produced, quite literally in a lot of cases, on our doorsteps. 😔


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## Malc

arwen_7 said:


> Production Vs demand I think.
> At times of the day I'm sure the UK as a whole is probably in "the danger zone" for not producing enough to satisfy demands. Which is why certain power companies keep gas/oil power plants to prop up supply if the renewables (wind/solar/hydro) is low during those days.
> 
> Want a real kicker? Scotland now regularly meets its own energy demands from its own renewables. Yet a lot of us pay vastly more per unit for electrically than the SE of England. Even though it's produced, quite literally in a lot of cases, on our doorsteps. 😔


That depresses me even more !


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## arwen_7

You and me both. Especially as the BBC recently made a big song and dance about how the Scottish government did not reach their target of 100% renewables by this year. Instead it was the equivalent of "only" 97% 🙄. 

The energy generation and use stats for England, Wales and Northern Ireland are pretty much nonexistent on the internet... Which makes it difficult to figure out what's being used and where. So the different prices across the country appear to make no sense.
Reading just this short article gives an insight to the whole big mess.








Scotland’s electricity consumption isn’t 100% renewable - Full Fact


Scotland produces renewable electricity equivalent to its annual consumption, but some of this is exported. In 2020, 56% of the electricity consumed in Scotland came from renewable sources.




fullfact.org






What we should be investing in, as a country/union, is energy storage. Like France does. 
Just-in-time electricity generation seems bonkers for this day and age in my mind.


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## Malc

arwen_7 said:


> What we should be investing in, as a country/union, is energy storage. Like France does.
> Just-in-time electricity generation seems bonkers for this day and age in my mind.


Well it wasn't that long ago, as in the past 20 years, that I can remember most large towns had a pair of gas monitors situated in their industrial areas. Huge cylinders that could store weeks if not months worth of gas for the town. Now.. all gone, with over inflated housing that none of the locals can afford being built on the ground they once stood. I can't say I'm a fan of renewables, mainly on the impact that huge wind farms and acers of solar panels have visually impacted out landscape, and given our climate, can see the advantage of wind farms over solar panels, but I agree that something needs to be done as fossil fuel won't last for ever. But it does seem stupid that we have to pipe in gas from the continent rather than reinvest and reopen the north sea supplies. Russia only needs to turn the tap off and Europe falls to its knees!!!


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## arwen_7

Oh I used to love spotting those gas "houses" from the train when I was a kid. The site of the ones in Dundee has been approved to be the new Eden project. Which will be interesting...


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## MHopkins

Interesting thread this, think I'll keep a look out for some insulation boards, free is better than cheap as they say. 
I was chatting with a friend who used to work as a chippy for the local council, the conversation turned to old drafty sash windows and he said that he used to fit clip on double glazing panels to old windows, great in the winter for old housing stock and can be removed and stored behind the sofa come summertime. Now this would have been back in the 70s/80s. I wonder if something similar is still available or could be shed engineered for the front of a wooden viv, just unclip it when you want access to the sliding glass. I'll have to ask him if they were glass or plastic.


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## loxocemus

i got a letter from my energy provider, they said the costs were rising 54% (i thought it was a scam at first, then i cried, sacrificed a goat, still 54%)

what does this mean for sizeable collections...

will there be energy cost sales on the classifieds soon...

i mean £1000 = £1540 that's insane, how much energy does rodent breeding take, will food prices rise, animal prices rise to recoup the costs...

its going to trickle down in unexpected ways i think

rgds
ed
(sell ur burmese stocks buy Aesculapian stocks, my stockmarket tip)


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## Zincubus

loxocemus said:


> i got a letter from my energy provider, they said the costs were rising 54% (i thought it was a scam at first, then i cried, sacrificed a goat, still 54%)
> 
> what does this mean for sizeable collections...
> 
> will there be energy cost sales on the classifieds soon...
> 
> i mean £1000 = £1540 that's insane, how much energy does rodent breeding take, will food prices rise, animal prices rise to recoup the costs...
> 
> its going to trickle down in unexpected ways i think
> 
> rgds
> ed
> (sell ur burmese stocks buy Aesculapian stocks, my stockmarket tip)


Ours is going up £1200 pa 

£100 per month 


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## Malc

And that was before the recent records for oil & gas wholesale prices... heat to think what it will be come the next rise in October....

But the thing that made the biggest jump was the standing charge "for delivering" the electricity.... up by 14p a day !!! - what's changed since last month.....It's sheer profiteering by the energy company....


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## Elly66

I'm seriously considering insulation when I build my new Royal viv, but am wondering if it will be truly cost effective 🤔 
The current price rises are a huge worry and I certainly won't be adding anymore animals to our home.


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## Malc

Elly66 said:


> I'm seriously considering insulation when I build my new Royal viv, but am wondering if it will be truly cost effective 🤔
> The current price rises are a huge worry and I certainly won't be adding anymore animals to our home.


Won't make any difference to the energy consumed. A pulse stat will be on 50% of the time regardless what settings you use or how well the viv is insulated. It will still consume 50% of whatever wattage the heater is in an hour, so still cost just as much to run.


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## Swindinian

I remember stressful home life during my childhood when interest rates went to 17.5%, and my parents found themselves over committed financially. They got through, but a reminder that economic stability is not a guarantee.

I have been really troubled by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and I support the sanctions, but the war will surely leave a legacy across the globe, not just poor Eastern Europe.

Cost of living increase was a given with Brexit, and now with further uncertainty with fuel supplies, and wheat production, it’s pretty inevitable that we’ll see further instability in fuel, transport, food and supplies.
A few will profit massively, but majority of us will take a big hit in medium and long term.


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## Swindinian

Malc said:


> Won't make any difference to the energy consumed. A pulse stat will be on 50% of the time regardless what settings you use or how well the viv is insulated. It will still consume 50% of whatever wattage the heater is in an hour, so still cost just as much to run.


So Malc, a stat cutting power to a heat source doesn’t actually reduce the energy consumed? 
Is this because it is just redirecting the current?
I would also have assumed insulation would help reduce overall consumption?

It might seem obvious to you, but would be really helpful if you can explain what practical measures you can take to reduce consumption, only if you can spare the time 😁

Andy


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## LiasisUK

Ours has doubled (I won't say what it is, it'll make you all cry), though they have based it on the last 3 months usage which is obviously greater due to it being the winter.


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## Malc

Swindinian said:


> So Malc, a stat cutting power to a heat source doesn’t actually reduce the energy consumed?
> Is this because it is just redirecting the current?
> I would also have assumed insulation would help reduce overall consumption?
> 
> It might seem obvious to you, but would be really helpful if you can explain what practical measures you can take to reduce consumption, only if you can spare the time 😁
> 
> Andy


Andy, I'm no expert, but when using dimmers or pulse proportional stats they aim for a happy medium of providing power, which is typically 50%. A pulse stat will always be switching on/off for an average of 50% of its duty cycle to maintain the set temperature. If the temperature in the viv is lower than the set point then it will always be pulsing to maintain that set point. The only time insulation would really work is in a situation similar to how our central heating systems work. A simple on / off thermostat that turns off when the room temp matches that of the thermostat. It will then switch back in once the thermostat detects the temperature has fallen below the trigger to change its state back to on. However if we use a standard on/off stat with a ceramic, the overshoot and undershoot generates a wide temperature swing (I did document this when I originally started researching my thermostat project in 2009).










As you can see when using a 150w CHE on an on/off stat set to 32c the swing went from 31c to 40.5c once the test had settled down (between 9am and 3pm).

So if you have a 150w CHE on a pulse stat it will (ideally) be pulsing at 50% of its duty cycle, so 75w will be consumed per cycle, or as things are rated in Kw/hr - 75w per hour. Now it's never that simple as there are so many variables, and a pulse proportional stat is never on for just 50% on every cycle, it will still vary, but it's good enough for working out energy consumption.

Having said that, even if you look at the ON/OFF graph above, the time it takes to raise the temperature is more or less equal to the time it takes for the temperature to fall and the stat turns on again. Just that the period is longer, around 90 minutes for a complete cycle... so it would still balance out.

Again. I'm no expert, but the only way that may reduce energy consumption is to reduce the wattage of each element, however there are limits where this becomes effective as a 100w CHE won't keep temperature in a large vivarium. One possible way of saving money is to run a gas central heating system with a zone valve used so the system can heat one room 24/7 on its own stat and heat this room to 28c, and then use small 15-20w heat mats. The thinking behind this is that gas for most users is considerably less than the cost of electric, and this may work out cheaper for those with large collections.

The problem I can see happening, is in order to cover the increase in running costs, breeders will increase prices. But as we are all in the same boat, sales will decrease as with a forecast that 'leccy will still increase meaning we will be paying double the cost in October. 

For me personally I have no idea what will happen. I'm on a fixed income and struggle month to month now... come next month my expenses will exceed my income and what little savings I have will soon be exhausted, and that will be the same irrespective if I sell the 10 snakes we have. As one of the posters above states, we seem to have a way of pulling through, but I bet once the situation in Ukraine gets resolve and a few years have passed for world economies to settle down there will be a lot of us in debt to our energy providers.


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## Malc

OK Carol Vorderman I am not... but here's some basic maths

10 enclosures with CHE's totalling 1100w. If they were on constantly for 24 hrs they would consume 26400w, or 26kw per day. As they are on pulse stats, and as mentioned the cycle rate is typically 50%, so that equates to 13.2kw per day. Multiply that by 365 and then divide by 12 gives 401.5kw/h per month. Lets round that to 400 to make math easy.

Currently paying 20.87p per Kwh so the snakes cost me £83.48 per month. (plus £7.30 standing charge). Unit price 1st April, 29.24p Kwh, gives £116.96, an increase of £33.48, plus £11.53 standing charge, a rise of £4.23. So the snakes are going to cost me approximately £38pm or £450 pa more to keep.... Just as well I managed to see the bulk of the last clutch of Royals before this happened.

That last sentence also ties in with the other thread on responsible breeding. Given the rise in energy costs, and the impact that can have even on a small collection, should we consider the running costs in the event that sales dry up and we have to house them long term. Now with some one like Paul at Urban Constrictors or Gavin at Balls2U who have their own room heated to 28c it won't matter as the cost of heating the room will be the same regardless of how many snakes are housed in the racks, but for the small time hobby breeder it could be a problem.

I've recently advertised a BEL and a pastel lesser in the classified section as the customer pulled out taking both, only wanting the remaining BEL stating that lack of space and running costs played a part in making the decision. At the moment they are still in tubs, but at some point (unless sold) I will need to think about building another stack of vivariums and the costs in running them. Now I tend to produce just one clutch a year which normally covers the cost of running the vivs and contributes towards the annual food bill. But I'm in two minds to continue my current breeding project just in case there is no market for them come December / January.


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## Zincubus

I’m clearly missing something here ..

If the vivs have insulation to prevent heat loss won’t the thermostat simply kick in less often or for shorter periods than without insulation ??


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## spigotbush

as i see it, insulation would allow you to use less powerful heaters to save energy. just adding extra insulation wouldnt necessarily save you anything meaningful. pulse and dimmers are always using some power, which if i understand malc's post then they average out at much the same level. an on/off would surely come on less, but the heat gradient may suffer if it doesnt come on much. 
if you use bulbs then the stat not coming on very often, or being constantly dimmed, would really mess about with the dynamics of the viv.
as i see it, insulating the viv and changing to a lower wattage heater would provide the best saving without changing the way the viv works. it could also allow a stable night time drop, which could save on having to run heaters for a chunk of the day. 
i think its something to consider as a whole, if you would have to close off the majority of the ventilation in order to insulate properly then that is no good. regardless of the costs to ourselves its the animals health that comes first and if the best possible system for our situation is costly then we just have to cop that and try and find a saving somewhere else. i am really glad i didnt pick up a boa now as my house is cold and i would need to run multiple heaters to offer a suitably sized viv. there is nothing i could do to alter that, even if was heavily insulated. as malc said, at that point the more cost effective solution would be to improve the room as a whole in order to keep it at the safe lower temps then i only need to heat from that point rather than fight the entire house.


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## Elly66

@Malc I brought a pulse stat for the ceramic heater in my Royal viv, but we found it wasn't holding the temperature as well as the standard stat. I'm not sure if this is due to my viv also having a uva/uvb bulb in as well (seems odd if it does)? Hubby put it back on the standard stat for now.


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## Malc

Zincubus said:


> I’m clearly missing something here ..
> 
> If the vivs have insulation to prevent heat loss won’t the thermostat simply kick in less often or for shorter periods than without insulation ??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


If you used the same analogy for insulating a home, then yes an simple on/off stat would remain off for longer as the heat is retained for longer. But as already shown, an on/off stat in the trials I did produced a wide temperature range, with too high an overshoot.

For a pulse stat, even those that use true PID routines they are designed to pulse at 50% cycle when maintaining the set temperature. This can be seen if you have a stat with the option of a night time temperature setting. As soon as the set temp drops to the night time setting they stop pulsing, only to start pulsing again as the temperature in the viv falls to match the set point, then pulsing again at a 50% duty cycle to maintain that new set point. When the daytime temp is required the opposite happens, the stat remains on fully until it gets near the set point and then starts pulsing to prevent overshoot and maintaining the day temp. In in insulated viv, the time it takes between day and night period before the stat start to maintain the night time temperature would be longer as the heat is retained for longer. 

Now in reality you will notice the stat pulse for different periods, as there will be a fluctuation in the duty cycle to maintain the set point, and insulation may help provide a steady pulse, but the stat will still be driving the heater for around 50% of any time period, its just how they are designed.


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## Malc

Elly66 said:


> @Malc I brought a pulse stat for the ceramic heater in my Royal viv, but we found it wasn't holding the temperature as well as the standard stat. I'm not sure if this is due to my viv also having a uva/uvb bulb in as well (seems odd if it does)? Hubby put it back on the standard stat for now.


Without knowing the details it's hard to comment. If the viv was too cold then the pulse stat would be driving the heater fully on to try and reach the set point. If the CHE wasn't able to reach the set point when fully driven then the wattage of the heater comes into question. Unless the prob was close to the UV light, and the UV light ran that hot it acted as a heater which would cause the stat to drive the heater less?


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## Zincubus

Malc said:


> If you used the same analogy for insulating a home, then yes an simple on/off stat would remain off for longer as the heat is retained for longer. But as already shown, an on/off stat in the trials I did produced a wide temperature range, with too high an overshoot.
> 
> For a pulse stat, even those that use true PID routines they are designed to pulse at 50% cycle when maintaining the set temperature. This can be seen if you have a stat with the option of a night time temperature setting. As soon as the set temp drops to the night time setting they stop pulsing, only to start pulsing again as the temperature in the viv falls to match the set point, then pulsing again at a 50% duty cycle to maintain that new set point. When the daytime temp is required the opposite happens, the stat remains on fully until it gets near the set point and then starts pulsing to prevent overshoot and maintaining the day temp. In in insulated viv, the time it takes between day and night period before the stat start to maintain the night time temperature would be longer as the heat is retained for longer.
> 
> Now in reality you will notice the stat pulse for different periods, as there will be a fluctuation in the duty cycle to maintain the set point, and insulation may help provide a steady pulse, but the stat will still be driving the heater for around 50% of any time period, its just how they are designed.


Ahh 


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## Jibbajabba

Zincubus said:


> Ours is going up £1200 pa
> 
> £100 per month
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yea ours goes up to a total of £3090.34 per year - about £1500 a year more (with October being the next increase. We still cannot figure out why it is so high to begin with because we moved a year ago and our old bill was £120 overall per month - both electricity and gas. I also filled my car up at the local Esso here for 189.9p per 99RON litre ...

Some people will def. have to make very tough decisions going forward, especially (without trying to get too political) with a government that is happy to allow those hikes and increasing tax on top of that.


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## Zincubus

Jibbajabba said:


> Yea ours goes up to a total of £3090.34 per year - about £1500 a year more (with October being the next increase. We still cannot figure out why it is so high to begin with because we moved a year ago and our old bill was £120 overall per month - both electricity and gas. I also filled my car up at the local Esso here for 189.9p per 99RON litre ...
> 
> Some people will def. have to make very tough decisions going forward, especially (without trying to get too political) with a government that is happy to allow those hikes and increasing tax on top of that.


Our petrol bill seems to have nearly doubled over the last few weeks !!


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## Elly66

Malc said:


> Without knowing the details it's hard to comment. If the viv was too cold then the pulse stat would be driving the heater fully on to try and reach the set point. If the CHE wasn't able to reach the set point when fully driven then the wattage of the heater comes into question. Unless the prob was close to the UV light, and the UV light ran that hot it acted as a heater which would cause the stat to drive the heater less?


We're now wondering if the pulse stat is faulty. All placements of probes etc were correct and the ceramic heater is fine itself. Hubby doing some checks on it and if faulty, hopefully I can get a replacement for it as it's new.


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## Elly66

Zincubus said:


> Our petrol bill seems to have nearly doubled over the last few weeks !!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Know that feeling and we live in the sticks, so using our vehicle is essential. With all the rising fuel costs it's getting scary. Our gas and electricity alone are now pushing to go over £100 a week 😡


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

I just paid £1.68/L for unleaded!


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## Zincubus

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> I just paid £1.68/L for unleaded!


I just keep ours filled up to the brim ... so add whatever it takes each week ..


One of our neighbours said it costs him £860 to fill up his lorry so I shouldn’t complain 


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Zincubus said:


> I just keep ours filled up to the brim ... so add whatever it takes each week ..
> 
> 
> One of our neighbours said it costs him £860 to fill up his lorry so I shouldn’t complain
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Is that economical though - all that weight?


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## frogeyed

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Is that economical though - all that weight?


A friend of mine says the fuel increase doesn't affect him, as he only puts in £20 a week.
Love it !!


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## Jibbajabba

Zincubus said:


> One of our neighbours said it costs him £860 to fill up his lorry so I shouldn’t complain


Can't really compare lol - a lorry is a commercial vehicle so likely tax deductible and VAT excempt



Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> I just paid £1.68/L for unleaded!


I filled up my car at a local Esso this morning .... £1.899 / L ... Nearly £150 for a full tank that used to cost less than 100 quid ... now I need to use 'pay at pump' twice (max is £99 per transaction) or walk into kiosk ..

At 13mpg average it starts to sting .... and it might even get worse ... our local energy supplier just send through the new April bill - £3090.56 per year for us ... madness ...


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## Elly66

Jibbajabba said:


> At 13mpg average it starts to sting .... and it might even get worse ... our local energy supplier just send through the new April bill - £3090.56 per year for us ... madness ...


What on earth are you driving to only get 13mph 😬


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## Jibbajabba

Elly66 said:


> What on earth are you driving to only get 13mph 😬


AMG e63s


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