# Amphibian (Caudata & Anura) Breeding History Certificate - Idea



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi everyone, 

I started this idea about a year ago on another forum about a specific genus of Amphibians (Tylototriton - Crocodile Newts to be precise) and with the recent discussion among several keepers on the RFUK Amphibian section about inbreeding, I thought I would post it up here. BUT, Please bear in mind this is still all just theory and simply a concept/idea, not something that has come into power or effect. So please none of you take this personally! 

I will use the Tylototriton genus as a base example for the theorised idea, so you can easily imagine any other species or genus or family for yourselves!  

Anyway, there is a huge place appeared in the market for the genus of Tylototriton (Crocodile & Knobby Newts) as slowly people are getting more interested in them. However, I do feel as though there should be some sort of controlled breeding and recording/studding/document of all the breeding and even keepers (Not just breeding) that is and will be happening from the Past, Present and the Future. 

What I am suggesting, is that all breeding heavily monitored and who they are sold to is too (even if it is all in confidence and not shared openly. And if someone doesnt want to tell them their names, they can use an alias). 

So, I was going to propose that maybe a Document is drafted based on everyone's Tylototriton of where they are from, who they belong to, previous owners, Offspring, Who the offspring were sold to, Previous owners of the offspring and so on and so forth! And basically every-time an individual is sold on to a new owner, its recorded and the document on those individuals passed onto the next owner too and if those individuals have offspring, its recorded and new documents are made for the offspring too that survive and make it into Adulthood with their bloodline history on it. 

Its sort of like documents provided for tortoises (sort of but not exactly). These are the following species I propose to keep documents of to monitor their breeding and trade: 


Mandarin Crocodile Newts (_Tylototriton shanjing_)
Guizhou (Kweichow) Crocodile Newts (_Tylototriton kweichowensis_)
Tiannan Crocodile Newt (_Tylototriton yangi_)
Ta Liang Knobby Newt (_Tylototriton taliangensis_)
Wen Xian Knobby Newt (_Tylototriton wenxianensis_)
Black Knobby Newt (_Tylototriton asperrimus_)
Hainan Knobby Newt (_Tylototriton hainanensis_)
I have a draft copy of what I currently decided on the Document/Certificate to look like and contain but obviously I am open to suggestions for things to add to it or take away. 

This will be for UK Keepers only. 

Here is a poor quality Print Screen of the document:









It is hard to make out from this print screen so this is a list of what it will contain, please bear in mind still that this is still only ideas and a draft of what it should contain etc;
*

Owner/Breeder Details*


Name/Alias of Owner (Current)
Owner ID Code

Breeder Reg Name/Alias
Breeder ID Code

*Contact Details (Owner/Breeder)*


Email Address
Mobile Number - optional

Telephone Number - optional
Caudata.org Account - optional
Other Forum Accounts - 3 options - optional
"Do you give permission for future keepers of Offspring and Current individuals you keep to view your details? *Y / N"*
Address (If agreed to) - optional
Other Details - optional

*Previous/Original Owner/Breeder Details*


Name/Alias of Owner (Previous/Original) x2
Owner ID Code x2

Previous/Original Breeder Reg Name/Alias x2
Breeder ID Code x2 
Email Address x2 
Contact Number x2 

*Species Details*


Species Name 
Nomenclature
Quantity
Male to Female Ratio 
Date of Ownership (begin) 
Number of Times Bred 
Origins - Wild Caught, Captive Bred, Captive Farmed, Long Term Captive etc
Known Locality Descent - where the bloodline is know to come from in the wild.
Male (Reg Name) Linage - Family Tree of known individuals (Red Writing Represents Wild Caught Individuals - End of known individuals)
Female (Reg Name) Linage - Family Tree of known individuals (Red Writing Represents Wild Caught Individuals - End of known individuals)
Declaration
Owner (Current) Signature and Date the started owning individuals
Previous/Original Owner/Breeder Signature and Date they passed on the individuals.
Like I said above towards the beginning, this concept/idea can be used for just about any species of Amphibian, not just the Tylototriton genus, from Mantella to Dendrobatidae. Some species such as the Golden Mantella (Mantella aurantiaca) have already been highly inbred to such an extent it would be hard to find out where each individual originally came from but we can always limit the amount of inbreeding surely? 

Anyway, I am probably going to get some peoples back's up with this idea and some may take it personally (if you do then you shouldn't, there is nothing to be taken personally!) but either way, this is something I am very passionate about and conservation has always been my top priority above money, It has got to a point where I don't sell offspring I simply give it away carefully under certain agreements, but mainly I aim to predominantly give specimens for Zoo's into conservation programmes. 

Hopefully, you will make out my rambling and rabbiting on but please feel free to comment. Obviously criticisms are welcome but bear in mind this is merely an idea to start with, but I hope one day the kinks in this idea will be ironed out and hopefully it will be implemented and at least attempted! :2thumb:

Thanks for reading : victory:

Josh


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## ip3kid (May 21, 2008)

A lot of work, but a good idea.

Wiuld it be an online database too, or?


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

ip3kid said:


> A lot of work, but a good idea.
> 
> Wiuld it be an online database too, or?


Definitely a ton of work, but I am always prepared to try my hardest to give something a go!  

It could be, I was thinking about perhaps starting off some sort of organisation that could keep hold of the data/information of each species, either keeping it confidential or open for people to view (kind of like ISIS in some way apart from it's for Hobbyist's aswell!). But I think it may be a confidential database that could only be viewed by people registered, like my starter thread suggests with a Reg Number or Breeders Number. 

But the only downfall with the Organisation or Group is that it would be expensive to kick start and to register and also like you pointed out a lot of work.


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## rimonex (Dec 21, 2010)

Sounds a cool idea.

As to funding it off, what about using internet crowd sourcing such as Kick starter, you never know....


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

I did also suggest this in another thred and have already created a web site to host this idea. 

Mantella man - do you fancie working together on this project?

bellow is a link to the starting construct

Uk Poison Frogs - Home


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

knighty said:


> I did also suggest this in another thred and have already created a web site to host this idea.
> 
> Mantella man - do you fancie working together on this project?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind at all really Dave, only problem is would you include this for all Amphibian species from Caudata to Anura? My original aim for my Ownership and Bloodline Certificate was to focus on Tylototriton and Echinotriton species however after seeing that quite a lot of people on a different forum would be actually more or less for the idea and to give it a shot, I am more than happy to try a wide range of Amphibian species rather than specifically Dendrobatidae family and the Tylototriton and Echinotriton genus. 

But to answer your question, sure why not


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Well i know very little about caudata, so you could take that side of things. I would be more than happy to cover frogs/toads or just split the work between us.

I am litterate in HTML and CCS so web work is no problem, i already have a host and the site can be changed to cover all amphibians in seconds.

Dave


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Sounds like an awesome I'd.. Although it could get incredibly complex.. Good luck.. 

Tiger

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