# Cat breeders - contract to keep them as indoors cats?



## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Following from a thread in 18+, talking about the destruction that cats cause to our wildlife, their tendency to poo in other peoples gardens and the outside dangers, do any of you breeders, or would you consider, some kind of contract with your kittens as you are selling them to say that you want them to stay as indoor cats?

Would you think this is fair? Can it be enforced? I think it's similiar to dog breeders who sell puppies with contracts that say they aren't to be bred, etc.

What do you think?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

unfortunatly it wouldnt be enforcable, plus once you`re rehomed a baby you have no say in how its treated as its no longer your property.

nice idea though, i dont let my cats out, theres too many nutters with air rifles, cars on the road, plus i dont think its fair for other peoples kids to be playing in their garden if my cats just dumped in it!


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> unfortunatly it wouldnt be enforcable, plus once you`re rehomed a baby you have no say in how its treated as its no longer your property.
> 
> nice idea though, i dont let my cats out, theres too many nutters with air rifles, cars on the road, plus i dont think its fair for other peoples kids to be playing in their garden if my cats just dumped in it!


Completely agree, but how on earth do puppy breeders make sure their puppies are neutered and not bred from?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

they just put endoersments on the pedigrees the same as cat breeders do - thats why kittens are advertised as `pet price` or `breeding price`.

then if they are bred from the puppies cant be registered.

thats why all the byb`s pups are `pedigree and no papers`


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> they just put endoersments on the pedigrees the same as cat breeders do - thats why kittens are advertised as `pet price` or `breeding price`.
> 
> then if they are bred from the puppies cant be registered.
> 
> thats why all the byb`s pups are `pedigree and no papers`


Ah I see, doesn't work that well then :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

When I bought my Mainecoon and one of my Sphynx I was told that they were to be indoor only cats but once they had seen photos of my contained garden and listened to my side of the story both breeders were happy that their kittens would have safe outside access, without the horrors of being free roaming cats.
Most pedigree cat breeders these days insist that the kittens they breed go to indoor homes and although they cant enforce it they do spend time quizzing prospective buyers.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> When I bought my Mainecoon and one of my Sphynx I was told that they were to be indoor only cats but once they had seen photos of my contained garden and listened to my side of the story both breeders were happy that their kittens would have safe outside access, without the horrors of being free roaming cats.
> Most pedigree cat breeders these days insist that the kittens they breed go to indoor homes and although they cant enforce it they do spend time quizzing prospective buyers.


At least some of the kittens welfare are being well-looked after. TBH I think I'm just getting really annoyed at irresponsible owners knocking tens of kittens out of the family cat and selling them to any tom, dick or harry :/ Surely something can be done about the general state of cats and cat owners in this country?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

bampoisongirl said:


> At least some of the kittens welfare are being well-looked after. TBH I think I'm just getting really annoyed at irresponsible owners knocking tens of kittens out of the family cat and selling them to any tom, dick or harry :/ Surely something can be done about the general state of cats and cat owners in this country?


 
I totally agree about the irresponsible breeding of some cats and what really annoys me is that when someone buys an unregistered kitten or one that has an endorsement they have an urge to let the cat produce just because its a specific breed:bash:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

totally agree with that. The non-active register is there supposedly to protect breeders from people buying what they consider to be "pet quality" kittens and then breeding from them. However the reality is that not being able to register the kittens doesn't stop people breeding those cats and selling them as "top quality" because they have champion and Grand champions in their pedigrees! Does my head in too!

I know a lot of breeders who have refused to sell kittens to people who refuse to keep them in the house, but who says that the ones who agree to do that actually carry it out? As Piggly says it's totally unenforceable, sadly.

I didn't make people sign contracts to keep any of my kittens indoors, but I explained very carefully to every new owner all the reasons why it's better for the cat to be kept as an indoor cat or for them to cat proof their garden to keep them confined. The choice of whether to do that I left to them, because I knew I couldn't enforce it. For every kitten I sold within 30 miles I sold 3 who were over 100 miles away, because Somalis are such a minority breed and I was 1 of only about 3 breeders north of Chesterfield who were breeding them.


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## mcrickydiva (Mar 4, 2007)

i think about 90% of pedigree cats are kept indoors or only let into a garden they cant get out of anyway.
we have a siamese & 2 moggies and they dont go out as there are to many roads around here and even if there werent we wouldnt risk somebody pinching them.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> unfortunatly it wouldnt be enforcable, plus once you`re rehomed a baby you have no say in how its treated as its no longer your property.
> 
> nice idea though, i dont let my cats out, theres too many nutters with air rifles, cars on the road, plus i dont think its fair for other peoples kids to be playing in their garden if my cats just dumped in it!


Don't worry Piggly.
Our Francheska won't be going outside without supervision and then only to play in the garden with Kee. She is just too pretty I'm sure someone would pick her up and nick her, Keirah would be gutted if anything happened to her they are in love:flrt::flrt:.
She is such a laid back cuddle bum it's unbeleivable.
I have some pics on the phone so I'll put them up eventually.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

that`d be great, i`d love to see how she`s getting on, she`s going to be gorgeous :flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I would dare like to bet you the percentage is actually higher than that though!


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

The only time ive come across enforcements with dogs is breeders selling certain breeds, making the new owners sign a declaration stating they will _not _have the dog neutered, as to maintain the lineage and possibility of keeping the breed going.

With regards to cats, you can get owners to sign as many papers as you want, but fundamentally you will have little control over what they do with the cat once they take over the 'rights' to the cat they pay for. I guess the only thing to do would be, when advertising the cat, to make clear that you intend only to sell them as 'indoor' cats, or to people with cat proof gardens, and then do a home check??


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

Am i the only cat owner whose cat poo's in his own garden? :gasp: 
Im in two minds about keeping cats indoors. Granted i dont think they should be allowed to roam into other peoples gardens but even living in a large 3 bed detached house with conservatory i cant ever imagine Ollie being kept soley indoors :sad:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mine know no different, they`ll never be allowed to roam, around here they`ll either get shot or stolen to flog down the boozer for drug money.

makes no odds to me wether they are pedigree or mogg, they get treated the same here and roaming isnt an option.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> mine know no different, they`ll never be allowed to roam, around here they`ll either get shot or stolen to flog down the boozer for drug money.
> 
> makes no odds to me wether they are pedigree or mogg, they get treated the same here and roaming isnt an option.


 

Its the same round here, unless its nailed down its not safe. My cats are happy playing in the house and garden and I would never have it any other way


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

Now we are in the house Ollie seems to very rarely leave the garden which is super nice :2thumb:

He is just how i imagined he would be, i always promised him a big house with a nice garden and he just loves it :no1:


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## ukphd (Mar 29, 2008)

Antw23uk said:


> Am i the only cat owner whose cat poo's in his own garden? :gasp:
> Im in two minds about keeping cats indoors. Granted i dont think they should be allowed to roam into other peoples gardens but even living in a large 3 bed detached house with conservatory i cant ever imagine Ollie being kept soley indoors :sad:



The best thing I ever did was cat-proof my garden. Now George and Maisy can enjoy the fresh air without bothering my neighbours or risking their lives. I'm a complete convert to keeping cats indoors/in cat-proofed gardens now! 

Interestingly, although our garden is small, the cats don't spend time worrying at the fence or trying to find a way out. I only let them out when I'm home but when I do George spends almost all day just sitting out there on the table watching the trees and birds etc. Maisy wanders around a bit or relaxes under her favourite bush. The only time they seem to react is when the squirrel comes and taunts them from the other side of the cat-proof fencing but even then they don't try to get at him


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## ukphd (Mar 29, 2008)

Antw23uk said:


> Now we are in the house Ollie seems to very rarely leave the garden which is super nice :2thumb:
> 
> He is just how i imagined he would be, i always promised him a big house with a nice garden and he just loves it :no1:


Aww that's great! :2thumb:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Antw23uk said:


> Am i the only cat owner whose cat poo's in his own garden? :gasp:
> Im in two minds about keeping cats indoors. Granted i dont think they should be allowed to roam into other peoples gardens but even living in a large 3 bed detached house with conservatory i cant ever imagine Ollie being kept soley indoors :sad:


Interestingly the people who often say this to me are moggie owners, and yet those people who have far more adventurous breeds like Bengals and Norwegian Forest cats etc seem to manage to do it just fine!

I had a friend of my brother in law say to me "try keeping an active cat indoors, it is tricky!" I didnt argue back but felt like saying something along the lines of "what made you think that having full responsibility for another life wasn't going to be occasionally "tricky"?" Having an animal can be hard at times!!! 

I hope soon there will be a change in general public opinion, because (even removing my thoughts on shitting in the property of others, the stress caused to dogs when your animals trespass on their property, and the damage to wildlife, especially bird life, of the epidemically high number of cats) allowing any small animal out to fend for itself, against cars, crazy people and other dangers is not responsible behaviour.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Kare said:


> allowing any small animal out to fend for itself, against cars, crazy people and other dangers is not responsible behaviour.


:no1:


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

Kare said:


> Interestingly the people who often say this to me are moggie owners, and yet those people who have far more adventurous breeds like Bengals and Norwegian Forest cats etc seem to manage to do it just fine!
> 
> I had a friend of my brother in law say to me "try keeping an active cat indoors, it is tricky!" I didnt argue back but felt like saying something along the lines of "what made you think that having full responsibility for another life wasn't going to be occasionally "tricky"?" Having an animal can be hard at times!!!
> 
> I hope soon there will be a change in general public opinion, because (even removing my thoughts on shitting in the property of others, the stress caused to dogs when your animals trespass on their property, and the damage to wildlife, especially bird life, of the epidemically high number of cats) allowing any small animal out to fend for itself, against cars, crazy people and other dangers is not responsible behaviour.


I will take your comment about responsible behaviour with a pinch of salt Kare because i actually agree with you to a certain extent. I will ignore the fact you have pretty much called me an irresponsible owner because i let my cat outside the boundaries of my property.
I say hats off to the people who do keep their cats indoors and they are happy sitting around a house 24/7 but i know my cat and thats not an option for him however we are now in a much better position to start working on making our garden secure but im also grateful i dont live in areas like you guys if your that worried about the outside world :sad:


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## arnie23 (Jan 3, 2010)

i let all my cats out and i put the litter box out and for some reason they dont do it in the garden or any other garden there use the little box :S


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Antw23uk said:


> im also grateful i dont live in areas like you guys if your that worried about the outside world :sad:


I live in a quietish village (bar Saturdays mid holiday season when the people turn up on holidays) and a cat still nearly lost its life under my car when the butterfly it was chasing crossed it across my path....and then back again just as I thought it was safely across and started moving again, I barely missed it both ways.. It takes one wheel of one car to kill a cat, and one person to hurt or simply steal a friendly cat, you don't need a bad area.

I think our views could likely meet in the middle, I do think it would be unpleasant to take a cat use to going out and suddenly not let it out without any good reason, but equally anyone getting a kitten and still introducing it to free roam needs to take a serious look at whether they can really be considered a good pet owner.


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

Kare said:


> I live in a quietish village (bar Saturdays mid holiday season when the people turn up on holidays) and a cat still nearly lost its life under my car when the butterfly it was chasing crossed it across my path....and then back again just as I thought it was safely across and started moving again, I barely missed it both ways.. It takes one wheel of one car to kill a cat, and one person to hurt or simply steal a friendly cat, you don't need a bad area.
> 
> *I think our views could likely meet in the middle, I do think it would be unpleasant to take a cat use to going out and suddenly not let it out without any good reason, but equally anyone getting a kitten and still introducing it to free roam needs to take a serious look at whether they can really be considered a good pet owner*.


I think our views just have :smile:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And yet I did just that when I bought my first breeding queen. My oldest cat was 6, the middle nearly 2 and the youngest 1 1/2 when I bought her.

Well not quite exactly that, as we cat proofed our garden so they could still go outside, but our garden isn't exactly large from a cat's territory point of view.

Yet the one who enjoyed his freedom the most and who 'patrolled' the fence for a few weeks trying to get out, soon gave up and settled down.

So it can be done, providing enough 'entertainment' is provided to compensate for the lack of freedom.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Some of my existing cats were ex ferals and even they accepted being confined. They dont just sit there either as I have walkways,outdoor scratchers and platforms as well as the pond and apple tree to keep them all busy. They even catch the odd mouse:gasp:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Strangely enough, all mine have caught is 1 bird which Harry didn't know what to do with and so brought it to me, upon which it rang under the Welsh Dresser and round the back of the video unit. I had to wait for Barry to come home and move all the furniture, while I tried to grab it as it flew out. It flew over my head and pooped on me! :roll2: PMSL! but I finally caught it and released it.

And twice they've managed to find a frog :crazy: and corner it. It was the intense screaming noise the frog was making on both occasions that alerted me - didn't know frogs could squeal like that!


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## ukphd (Mar 29, 2008)

All mine manage to catch are spiders! 
They're intrigued by the birds but don't try to chase them, they just watch them! They're both intrigued and terrified by the squirrel that sits just the other side of the cat proof fence tormenting them :lol2:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

ukphd said:


> All mine manage to catch are spiders!


The one I had growing up use to do that, he was a true outdoor cat and didnt interact really with the house, in that he did climb on anything, any side or anything except one old chair and my dads lap, but then once in a while he would dive off under the sofa and then come back out to gift what was normally a fairly sizeable :eek4: spider at your feet!!


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## vogelport (Feb 4, 2008)

My cat Luna (moggie) was an indoor cat for her first year because we lived on a main road,now we live in the middle of nowhere and she goe's out as she please's (just not at night)

She's much happier now


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

There is one cat in our neighbourhood who is allowed to freeroam without so much as a bell on, and has broken into one of the runs and killed 6 of our quails and severely injured another one of them. 

The wiley begger won't be caught or I would put a collar with a bell on him myself, but honestly keeping our enclosures cat proof is an absolute nightmare with a cat as determined as that because he sits on the wire and watches the pets like they're a TV.

I don't know who the owner is, and to be honest I have never had a huge problem with cats free roaming previously as I am a big cat lover and enjoy making friends with the local cats but the frustrations of not even knowing who the owner is in order to air my grievences at having the grief and expense of replacing a run and several members of our pet family.


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