# venom strength



## iajo (Sep 16, 2008)

I ask this on her because i felt this would be where the knowledge was. Purely interest on my part but does venom potency vary between snakes of the same species? Is it possible to get bitten by a species that is highly venomous but the snake that bit carry a less than average potency of venom. The reason i ask is alot of people seem to be into rear fanged at the moment and i wondered if it may be possible to buy one that was particularly potent and therefor quite dangerous.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

iajo said:


> I ask this on her because i felt this would be where the knowledge was. Purely interest on my part but does venom potency vary between snakes of the same species? Is it possible to get bitten by a species that is highly venomous but the snake that bit carry a less than average potency of venom. The reason i ask is alot of people seem to be into rear fanged at the moment and i wondered if it may be possible to buy one that was particularly potent and therefor quite dangerous.


im not a DWA keeper but i think youll be better to look at the GENUS rather than the SPECIES. e.g. i keep a boiga cyanea (boiga being the genus, cyanea being the species), cyanea are much less potent than dendrophila for example...


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Lots of factors can come into the mix..

size of animal, age, locality (some species exhibit differences in venom from different localities), how long since it last used its venom, time of year has been reported as being relevant. 

Also a big factor is you bodies reaction to venom.

How you react to a bite may differ from how I react.

Many people underestimate the potential effect ANY venom may have of the victims body.

Although Mangrove Snakes are no longer DWA listed their venom is strong and can have serious effects.

Perhaps Stuart may re-post an shot of his hand following a mangrove bite???


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Little is known about the venom properties of most rear fanged species, I still remember when boomslangs were considered harmless and could be bought without a DWA .
I was warned by a very knowledgable friend some time ago , "Never let a rear fang chew on you, you may just be the next person to prove that another back fanged species is lethal"


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## Rikki (Mar 27, 2007)

a paper in the late 90's described geographic and ontogenetic variation in the venom of _Calloselasma rhodostoma_ throughout its range, relating to the composition of its diet, so it does vary both with location and age within snakes. No idea about ol' opisthoglyphs though, not my area!: victory:


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## DRACONODON (Apr 28, 2008)

come on guys enligthen me i watched a programme with a snake i dont know what kind i think it was the puff adder and it had a nerve destroying venom what is the name given to such a venom 

i thought if anyone can answer this it is you guys??

thanks in advance: victory:


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

REPTAREXPERT said:


> come on guys enligthen me i watched a programme with a snake i dont know what kind i think it was the puff adder and it had a nerve destroying venom what is the name given to such a venom
> 
> i thought if anyone can answer this it is you guys??
> 
> thanks in advance: victory:


neurotoxin.


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

I doubt it was a puff adder then, Puffs are highly cytotoxic causing alot of damage to blood cells and necrosis


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

May have been a death adder..................

To the OP, there is a species of tropical rattlesnake, _Crotalus durissus durissus_ I think, in which the venom of juveniles is far more toxic than that of the adults, the Juvies carry a neurotoxic venom which, as they grow up is replaced by the more usual rattler cocktail of Haemotoxins


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

iajo said:


> I ask this on her because i felt this would be where the knowledge was. Purely interest on my part but does venom potency vary between snakes of the same species? Is it possible to get bitten by a species that is highly venomous but the snake that bit carry a less than average potency of venom. The reason i ask is alot of people seem to be into rear fanged at the moment and i wondered if it may be possible to buy one that was particularly potent and therefor quite dangerous.


Well _I've got a hydrodynastes gigas gigas_ (false water cobra or brazillian smooth snake) and all I've really been able to find out about the venom, is that its supposed to be as bad a bite as a timbor Rattle snake but because its rear fanged it its really got to chew on you, and that is heamotoxic.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Timbor?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Before we get into atrox/horridus comparisons for the umpteenth time (just search for FWC threads!), this is a note to the OP.


In short - YES. Snakes of the same species can and do have varying venom toxicities. When I was at uni, one of the main areas of study in the research group was variation in venoms in south east Asian snakes. _Trimeresurus_ were studied extensively. I believe there is a paper showing that the venom varied extensively throughout the range of one species on Taiwian and was highly correlated to diet rather than phylogeny.

The _C. rhodostoma_ paper that Rikki mentioned is probably this one

Daltry, Wuster and Thorpe (1997). The role of ecology in determining venom variation in Malayan pitviper, _Calloselasma rhodostoma_. Sypm. Zoo. Soc. Lond. No. 70; pp155-171 


As for the bit about looking for a locale of hot that is less dangerous... well lets just say, probably not a good idea!

Cheers

Andy


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## Rikki (Mar 27, 2007)

bothrops said:


> The _C. rhodostoma_ paper that Rikki mentioned is probably this one
> 
> Daltry, Wuster and Thorpe (1997). The role of ecology in determining venom variation in Malayan pitviper, _Calloselasma rhodostoma_. Sypm. Zoo. Soc. Lond. No. 70; pp155-171


Yeah, thats the one! I think this is the other paper referred to: 

S. Castellano, A. Malhorta and R.S. Thorpe (1994) Within-island geographic variation of the dangerous Taiwanese snake, _Trimeresurus stejnegeri_, in relation to ecology, _Biol. J. Linnean Soc._ 52, pp. 365–375.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

That's the puppy!

I knew Simon had researched/written it, I just couldn't remember his surname!

Cheers

Andy


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