# P.metallica communal?



## Webleybulldog455 (May 11, 2010)

Hi guys,
I have 2 p.metallica slings from the same sac and im wondering if they can be housed together or not? I know other pokies can be housed together. I have a large enough enclosure and plenty of hides,I am also aware they are rare spider and an endangered species so I dont want to do it if they will deffo attack each other!
Thanks


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## billsy (Nov 29, 2008)

i'm not sure but with those is it worth the risk??

I'd personally seperate them, just incase.

:2thumb:


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## Ninjaaa23 (Jan 22, 2010)

billsy said:


> i'm not sure but with those is it worth the risk??
> 
> I'd personally seperate them, just incase.
> 
> :2thumb:


same fair bit of cash on the line


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## Webleybulldog455 (May 11, 2010)

thanks guys,Im not worried about the money more how rare they are so I'l not be risking it. Just means il have to add some more community friendly pokies to me collection:2thumb:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

they aren't rare, just stupidly expensive. Again though, the popularity of a 'blue' spider wins


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## KaneDragon (Feb 20, 2010)

Webleybulldog455 said:


> Hi guys,
> I have 2 p.metallica slings from the same sac and im wondering if they can be housed together or not? I know other pokies can be housed together. I have a large enough enclosure and plenty of hides,I am also aware they are rare spider and an endangered species so I dont want to do it if they will deffo attack each other!
> Thanks


Hi, im not sure on metallicas. I would GUESS it would be ok as most pokies are. But you said that you have a large enclosure with plenty of hides; I believe if you want to keep communaly then its best to keep the tank as small as possible and reduce hides so they are "forced" to hide with each other. If they have seperate hides then they will all retreat to their own hide and if they do come across each other then are more likley to fight.

I heard this from an experianced T keeper and is not my own knowledge.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I just wanted to point out that most pokies are NOT communal.

Only a few work, the others will kill each other. I can't say for sure that P.met will _never_ work but I do recall others with more Pokie experience saying that it's a very bad idea, IIRC.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Id soooooooo keep them separate, its not worth the risk mate!

: victory:


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## Webleybulldog455 (May 11, 2010)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> they aren't rare, just stupidly expensive. Again though, the popularity of a 'blue' spider wins


P.metallica arnt rare? Iv had 2 pms already asking where I got mine from :whistling2: The markings on a metallica are more than just a "blue" spider,got to be one of the best colours/markings of any T,which is why I bought mine.Money well spent as I could have bought a few burrowing T's which I may get a glimpse of a few times a year!
Each to their own tho!


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

Why do people want to keep pokies communally?
I know people do with success but I don't get why you would want to?


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## Webleybulldog455 (May 11, 2010)

Stelios said:


> Why do people want to keep pokies communally?
> I know people do with success but I don't get why you would want to?


I have a large Exo and stand that I was going to put in my living room as a kind of show piece,I had heard that certain pokies can be kept together,and allot of keepers do so without much problem!


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

With that set up sounds like they would make their own territories.
People who keep them with success tend to keep them in really compact enclosures so they get conditioned to the proximity of each other.
They look good at first but then after a while the glass gets dirty and just looks scruffy.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Webleybulldog455 said:


> Hi guys,
> I have 2 p.metallica slings from the same sac and im wondering if they can be housed together or not? I know other pokies can be housed together. I have a large enough enclosure and plenty of hides,I am also aware they are rare spider and an endangered species so I dont want to do it if they will deffo attack each other!
> Thanks


As several people have said already, _P. metallica_ are apparently not that good for communities. At the price you pay for them as well, well it's not a risk I'd like to take as in any community one spider may occasionally decide another looks delicious.
Also, that is not how communal pokies should be set up, it'd encourage fighting and killing each other. Pokies need to essentially be cramped with only one hide and little decoration for a communal set up. The idea is that they share a hide and a territory. With a lot of space and multiple hides, each sets up it's own territory and gueards it against others, cue fighting.



_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> they aren't rare, just stupidly expensive. Again though, the popularity of a 'blue' spider wins


They're both... mets are really endangered, and quite hard to breed successfully without the proper know-how.



Stelios said:


> Why do people want to keep pokies communally?
> I know people do with success but I don't get why you would want to?


Because it looks cool.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Webleybulldog455 said:


> P.metallica arnt rare? Iv had 2 pms already asking where I got mine from :whistling2: The markings on a metallica are more than just a "blue" spider,got to be one of the best colours/markings of any T,which is why I bought mine.Money well spent as I could have bought a few burrowing T's which I may get a glimpse of a few times a year!
> Each to their own tho!



They aren't as rare in the hobby as people will lead you to believe, as hedgewitch has just pointed out in the wild they are endangered, but not in the hobby they aren't. Thing is most people will allways ask you where you got them from due to as soon as they become available people buy them in an instant. I'm not knocking you for having them far from it, but someone needs to do some captive breeding and not look at making a fortune off these! Only then will they become a better price


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> Because it looks cool.


I know it does at first, but then there is no cleaning and the glass gets dirty and you never see them.
The pic's I've seen look great but then the ones I have seen of established setups all look scruffy.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> mets are really endangered


This, and the same can be said for almost all pokies depends on who you talk to.:thumb:


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

People want to keep their pokies communally because they get bored of their boring hobby as far as BP is concened, me too, its boring , but also f:censor:g excellent at the same time!!!!

:lol2:

Still wouldn't keep P.Metallica's communally!!!

(far too precious to risk a loss)


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

GRB said:


> I just wanted to point out that most pokies are NOT communal.
> 
> Only a few work, the others will kill each other. I can't say for sure that P.met will _never_ work but I do recall others with more Pokie experience saying that it's a very bad idea, IIRC.


Can I ask where you get that info from? and what species you regard as communal/non-communal? please and thanks

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In the wild P. metallica are critically endangered according to the Red List. As BP points out so are many other species of Pokie, much due to habitat destruction and poaching. Whilst the prices are so high the poaching will continue unfortunately.
In the hobby P. metallica seem extremely hard to breed, few succeed and I can think of very few instances of success in the UK.
They're probably the smallest pokie and have proportionally smaller sacs, so numbers are never high but as our knowledge improves we hope to see numbers rise in the hobby.

------------------------------

There are definite benefits to raising slings together, the mortality rate is lowered and the enjoyment of having a community outweighs the single lone spider IMO. 

------------------------------

I'm not sure whether P. metallica are communal or not, most people regurgitate what others have said on various forums without having any experience of it. I personally find that not only frustrating but it merely serves to perpetuate the myth which online becomes the reality. People told me ornata couldnt be kept communally. Ive had 1 success to adult hood and 2 failures. What made the success? perhaps the enclosure wasnt right or the level of humidity was too high. I aim to tackle it again. Ive also been told P. striata can't be kept communally. mmmm! see my other posts. I was very much hoping to have a community of 10 P. metallica last year and was going to study the sex ratio and compatability of them. Unfortunately the arrangement hasn't materialised as the other party has completely disappeared. If it weren't for the financial issues I'd certainly attempt it but unless I'm successful with a sac its not likely to happen.

In answer to the original question, if you can afford to lose 1 then I'd attempt it. All communities are gambles you have to decide yourself whether you wish to take the risk. If you do so I'd strongly suggest you read up on the location of P. metallica to get as much info as possible about weather, humidity, habitat etc.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

TBH Pete it's info banded around by other people with Pokies, like Dan. Of course it's second hand from me so might be incorrect. 

I actually can't stand pokies but since at the time no-one had said that P.metallica were usually non-social I though I'd chip in. 

As for crowding them in, I think it's either or; you either cram them closely together to avoid territories, or you put them in a large enough tank to avoid aggressive interactions. I usually go for the latter (not with Pokies obviously since I haven't tried, but from experience with other arachnids).


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

LOL Grant, I think its more likely to be banded around by people without communities 
I've never spoken to Dan about his communities, not sure he has any, but I dare say he's had some at some point. A good convo for BTS, if he's attending.

I have talked to people who have studied pokies and they've found them in the wild living communally with more than 1 generation!

I have/had communities of the following:
ornata, pederseni, striata, regalis, miranda, subfusca, rufilata all of which have been raised communally past the 3-4" stage.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> LOL Grant, I think its more likely to be banded around by people without communities
> I've never spoken to Dan about his communities, not sure he has any, but I dare say he's had some at some point. A good convo for BTS, if he's attending.
> 
> I have talked to people who have studied pokies and they've found them in the wild living communally with more than 1 generation!
> ...


 
LOL indeed! air enough Pete I trust your experience far more than my jumbled hearsay :lol2:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> I have talked to people who have studied pokies and they've found them in the wild living communally with more than 1 generation!
> .


Out of interest who and what species?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Well to go a little further I believe is possible to have communities of other species too.
Ive had success with P. cambridgei and P. murinus so far.
Nature poses us many questions, for instance why is the chicken spider found communally but not other members of the Pamphobetus or related species?
Why is A. minatrix communal but not other members of the Avicularia genus?
oh for the answers 

btw, will you be going to BTS?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Peter Kirk for one, he found P. pederseni doing exactly that.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> Ive had success with P. cambridgei


until what size?


> Why is A. minatrix communal but not other members of the Avicularia genus?


How communal were they?


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> Peter Kirk for one, he found P. pederseni doing exactly that.


 did he ever publish anything?


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

GRB said:


> LOL indeed! air enough Pete I trust your experience far more than my jumbled hearsay :lol2:


I read that first as "your jumbled heresy" :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Hedgewitch said:


> I read that first as "your jumbled heresy" :lol2:


Equally applicable! :lol2:


I find the social aspect of arachnids interesting, I just wish Pokies were not so...trendy. I kind of see them as the emo of the tarantula world at the minute. 

I mean I like skulls, plaid shirts and black...yet emo somehow manages to ruin all of these things and make them insanely less bad-ass than they should be. For me pokies are kind of similar - big, nicely patterned with intesting behaviour and a characterful streak. It should be a match in heaven but instead it's just a pair of skintight jeans and size 7 "mens"* shoes to the tune of MCR. Bleugh.

*As if real men are size 7...:lol2:


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## Ninjaaa23 (Jan 22, 2010)

GRB said:


> Equally applicable! :lol2:
> 
> 
> I find the social aspect of arachnids interesting, I just wish Pokies were not so...trendy. I kind of see them as the emo of the tarantula world at the minute.
> ...


:lol2::notworthy:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

@BP
I believe Peter Kirk published quite a bit on pokies, whether he published anything on communal living I'm not sure.

The P. cambridgei are still living in the same enclosure as mum from Aug 09 slings. I'm currently considering writing an article for BTS on my experiment which emulates Carpenters.

Unfortunately the A. minatrix I had only amounted to 2, 1 died and I've just rehoused the other which is still in sling stage. However, this is the only Avic Ray Gabriel found to be communal.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Sure I know a few articles by Peter Kirk only don't recall one about communal P.pederseni either. Strange when I think he has published something in regards to P.subfusca and their young living with the mothers for up to a year, but don't also recall if this was an in the wild observation?

Aug 09 slings so how big are they?How many did you start with?How many are left? What kind of size scale have you got? and out of them how many are females? Sorry for the questions I am just interested.

Your example with minatrix I will not take into account. Not being rude here just from what you say it doesn't say one thing or the other.
In regards to Ray Gabriel do you know if he published anything on this? or is this the only one?
*Gabriel, R. 1998.
*Avicularia minatrix – some notes on husbandry, breeding & rearing.
Journal of the British Tarantula Society 14(2): 47-49.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

In the case of RG and PK it was pers comm, not what I read.

In the case of the P. cambridgei I guesstimate they are approaching 2", they are not sexed but the rest you'll have to wait for.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

I look forward to that then.


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## Webleybulldog455 (May 11, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. I am going to house the 2 p. metallicas in separate containers, it would just too much to risk: victory:


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

GRB said:


> I actually can't stand pokies


Whoa - too Strong!


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> I actually can't stand pokies



I'm going to agree with him on this one :| I admit there pretty and stuff but i gave away an adult female regalis! Not my thing really. Allthough a tank with more than one in is appealing


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> Whoa - too Strong!


Not for me....seriously I think it's because when you start in the hobby, everyone almost forces them on you as being the best. I can think of nicer more interesting animals. 

Personally I'd just about kill for some Ricinuleids, Palpigrades or Schizomids.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

burn him!!!!


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

GRB said:


> Not for me....seriously I think it's because when you start in the hobby, everyone almost forces them on you as being the best. I can think of nicer more interesting animals.
> 
> Personally I'd just about kill for some Ricinuleids, Palpigrades or Schizomids.


heretic :bash:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

I agree with GRB on this one, i think there overated, don't get me wrong i think there very pretty... but then again i think my Macrothele gigas is a looker :| 


I will get into these oneday though i'm sure


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

GRB said:


> Not for me....seriously I think it's because when you start in the hobby, everyone almost forces them on you as being the best. I can think of nicer more interesting animals.
> 
> Personally I'd just about kill for some Ricinuleids, Palpigrades or Schizomids.


Oh Grant, you're just contrary though  Does anyone even keep hooded tick-spiders? I don't know what the other two are (to Wikipedia!).

I'll agree that maybe pokies are overly popular, but some of them are pretty.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Hedgewitch said:


> Oh Grant, you're just contrary though  Does anyone even keep hooded tick-spiders? I don't know what the other two are (to Wikipedia!).
> 
> I'll agree that maybe pokies are overly popular, but some of them are pretty.


Haha, perhaps. 

I don't think anyone does keep any of the groups tbh. The literature has kind of stagnated for them except the odd taxonomic paper that Mark Harvey publishes now and again (usually on Australian ones). 

I'd like to get some, I am quite fascinated with micro-arthropods. For such small animals they often have behaviours that put the biggest to shame. 

As for pokies...meh. Perhaps one day, maybe if I see them in the wild or something it might explain the fascination for others.


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