# Pets at Home BD starter kit - think I've made a BIG mistake!



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

OK, this is my dilemma: I (stupidly) went and bought the Pets at Home bearded dragon starter kit, which as I've already mentioned, we are having problems getting the temps high enough in the basking area (around low to mid 90's, and cool end high 70's).
I wish I could turn the clock back, but unfortunately we have now spent alot of money on it all (£199 for kit, plus another £35 for stand to hang light on, plus all deco, food bowls, supplements, red light and thermostat for nighttime (not included in kit) etc. I now realise we were stupid to buy this kit in the first place (due mostly to the very 'knowledgable' and convincing sales person who assured me this viv set-up was more than satisfactory for the 2 juvenile BD's we also bought to go in it) but now it seems we are stuck with it  
My question is this: does anyone think I would have any grounds for going back to the shop and asking to return it, due to it not reaching the required temps? (Obviously not before sorting out another viv to replace it first) I can't believe how much I've fallen for this cute fella's already, and really want to do whats best for them. 
Any advice would be much appreciated,
many thanks


----------



## tina b (Oct 3, 2007)

newbeardieowner said:


> OK, this is my dilemma: I (stupidly) went and bought the Pets at Home bearded dragon starter kit, which as I've already mentioned, we are having problems getting the temps high enough in the basking area (around low to mid 90's, and cool end high 70's).
> I wish I could turn the clock back, but unfortunately we have now spent alot of money on it all (£199 for kit, plus another £35 for stand to hang light on, plus all deco, food bowls, supplements, red light and thermostat for nighttime (not included in kit) etc. I now realise we were stupid to buy this kit in the first place (due mostly to the very 'knowledgable' and convincing sales person who assured me this viv set-up was more than satisfactory for the 2 juvenile BD's we also bought to go in it) but now it seems we are stuck with it
> My question is this: does anyone think I would have any grounds for going back to the shop and asking to return it, due to it not reaching the required temps? (Obviously not before sorting out another viv to replace it first) I can't believe how much I've fallen for this cute fella's already, and really want to do whats best for them.
> Any advice would be much appreciated,
> many thanks


 

not sure theyd accept it back if it been set up and used unless there was a fault with it ..if youre just worried about getting temp higher why not plut a piece of slate under basking area as this retains the heat and will let the beardie get closer to heat ..failing this you could always up the wattage of the bulb you have if its run on a stat it will control it anyway:2thumb:


----------



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

You could certainly try. Make a list of all its shortcomings. Does it say on the packaging that it is everything you will need? If so, and if you were told that it was a complete kit (be difficult to prove tho - your word against theirs) then it was mis-sold and I think legally you are entitled to your money back - goods not fit for purpose. I know [email protected] get a bad press but I think you stand more chance of a refund from a national firm than you would from may smaller outlets. Good luck.


----------



## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Yes I would try and swap it, since you can get care sheets to prove a basking temp of 110f is best and you can't get that with their set-up. I'm not sure of "fit for purpose" can be claimed here since I suppose animal care is relative.

But I would try and get it sent back, maybe see if there's any knowledgeable folk on here who live near you, if you a bit worried they could back you up and shout down the PAH staff with the right requirements.:lol2:


----------



## CactuarJon (Mar 4, 2009)

PaH are selling beardies in pairs? Oh dear.

I dont know if you'll be able to return the equipment, sorry I can't help.


----------



## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you considered changing to a higher powered basking light?

May be cheaper than a complete new viv.

Karl


----------



## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

KarlW said:


> Have you considered changing to a higher powered basking light?
> 
> May be cheaper than a complete new viv.
> 
> Karl


aye tis a good idea, if your on say a 60w try a 100w.

how about you take some photos of how it's set-up and post them on here for us to see?


----------



## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

I think I have seen these set ups in my local PAH store, are they all glass? They sell the same ones for leo's only smaller. The size thay are selling for beardies is barely big enough for one let alone two. It might be difficult to get the temps high enough in an all glass enclosure.


----------



## dickvansheepcake (Jul 8, 2009)

SkyCaptain said:


> PaH are selling beardies in pairs? Oh dear.
> 
> I dont know if you'll be able to return the equipment, sorry I can't help.


Yep the one near me has deals on buying two together, I thought it a bit odd as the beardies aren't even big enough to sex yet. Not very responsible of them really!


----------



## NINJATURTLETOM (Sep 1, 2009)

I would defnitley take it back and complain coz if it dosnt meet the requirements it needs to house a beardy then its not a starter kit. You can get a starter kit from my local reptile shop with all the correct heating, food bowls etc and beardy for 235 quid!


----------



## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

make a big enough fuss and im sure they will 

I work in a pet shop so i know what usually works lol


----------



## flamie (Oct 11, 2009)

Bradders100 said:


> make a big enough fuss and im sure they will
> 
> I work in a pet shop so i know what usually works lol


i agree with you!! Also if you can get written information thats they have done then you will have a leg to stand on but moan like mad they will give in soon enough!! lol
Hope you can sort it!!


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Moaning like mad will get you no where.
You're best off going back to the store and explaining the situation.....
You were told this setup would be adequate for 2 juvenile bearded dragons, which it isn't. You have the animals best interests in mind so would like to return it. Walking in and slating the staff there will only annoy the team and you'll find they're much less helpful.


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

Just to update, today we have purchased some more polystyrene end panels, which seem to have helped increase the temps. Have decided that we probably haven't got much chance of returning this set-up as it more than reaches the temps the shop ones do, but I am thinking of writing a letter to [email protected] head office to ask why they sell these starter kits, when everything I've read since seems to go against it, ie. enclosure too small, shouldn't be glass, and shouldn't be selling beardies in pairs... Many thanks for everyones advice. PS. Decided to upgrade viv as soon as the beardies have grown...which won't be long, judging by how much they eat! lol


----------



## Knarf3 (Aug 25, 2008)

Whats wrong with buying two bearded dragons???

Get some pics of the starter kit up so we can have a look. might be something simple to fix as im sure that who ever makes the starter kits would have tested them to ensure they do what there ment to.


----------



## Dingle87 (Apr 18, 2009)

Explain the viv, 
Size?
Wooden or Glass?
What bulb u r using? 

it might be good enough, but no of us no the exact things you have!


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

Sorry, trying to insert photo without success??! Please can anyone tell me how to do it! Thanks


----------



## haze2cute (Nov 8, 2009)

dickvansheepcake said:


> Yep the one near me has deals on buying two together, I thought it a bit odd as the beardies aren't even big enough to sex yet. Not very responsible of them really!


i bought my 2 in a pair from scales and fangs in leigh on sea, what is wrong with this????


----------



## Dingle87 (Apr 18, 2009)

you have to upload the image into your photo album on your profile, then copy the link, when in message paste the link:2thumb:


----------



## maddragon29 (Oct 16, 2008)

Knarf3 said:


> Whats wrong with buying two bearded dragons???
> 
> They are juvenile for a start... so sex is unknown.
> 
> ...


*- i had someone come to me asking about beardies, and they said they'd bought a "starter kit" from Dobbies.... it was a 1.5 foot squared exo terra with heating and lighting equipment, including a heat matt. Now unless i'm mistaken... beardies often grow BIGGER than 1.5 foot long.... not everyone tells the whole truth sometimes and this is certainly true with shops selling reptile kits. *


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Yeah I saw these starter kits to they have a wood viv and terranium ones as well. Very overpriced and undersized for what there selling them for


----------



## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

my friend has 3 male beardies, they are all adults and have lived together for ages and don't fight. i said to her that they usually do fight but they have proved me wrong lol, and yer they are def all male.....i wouldn't risk it myself though best to know what they are first


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

OK, here is a photo of my viv, The basking light is an Exo Terra Sunglo 100w, and in the canopy which covers the back half of the mesh lid, there are 4 more bulbs, 2 x Reptiglo 10 UV and 2 x Sunglo 25w. These were all included in the kit. We change the basking light for a 50w infrad red light at night, on a thermostat set to around 70F. We changed the sand substrate for lino yesterday, and beneath the bamboo root that they bask on, we have a piece of stone (although I've yet to see them lay on it). Hope this is enough info, looking forward to any advice. 
PS. The size of the viv is 90cm x 45 x 45


----------



## Yorkshire Gator (Oct 16, 2009)

I've also seen theese so called "starter kits" in PaH, and I have to say I'm shocked at them as they are glass Exo Terra vivs. They are also sellingthem as starter kits for Hermanns.


----------



## maddragon29 (Oct 16, 2008)

Yorkshire Gator said:


> I've also seen theese so called "starter kits" in PaH, and I have to say I'm shocked at them as they are glass Exo Terra vivs. *They are also sellingthem as starter kits for Hermanns*.


this sickens me


----------



## jarvis and charlie (Mar 27, 2009)

joeyboy said:


> aye tis a good idea, if your on say a 60w try a 100w.
> 
> how about you take some photos of how it's set-up and post them on here for us to see?


 as above if not take it back and complain that its wrong , havent seen any of there set ups so cant say .


----------



## kimmie86 (Aug 19, 2009)

if it's not holding the heat and reaching the required heat to maintain healthy reps, then its faulty!! Simple as...

Take it back, and tell them you want a full refund and compensation for the distress caused to your beardies..and tell them id they dont you will be taking it to trading standards and the national papers as they are willingly selling something that is putting the health of living breathing reptiles in jeopardy. Your one person who has the intelligence to look deeper into it...how many have been sold and will be with owners who presume that if the temps arent high enough then its ok as they were sold it from the petshop :bash:


----------



## incrisis (Jun 15, 2008)

Have you tried fitting the basking bulb beneath the mesh?

It does require taking the wires out of the ceramic fitting, making a small hole in the mesh, and rewiring once fitted beneath the mesh, but will work.


----------



## Hewitt (Aug 8, 2009)

If you're using the heatrock then take it out right away, it'll harm your beardy. You could try taking it back, not sure if they will accept it though. Go down there and talk to them about it.


----------



## jamie and janie (Jan 24, 2009)

i have to admit i have seen these kits and thought what a load of s**t but you all have to remember the title of the item 'starter kit' starter being the word to focus on as its what yu would need to start with, not for later on in life beardies as its just not enough


----------



## griffin (Apr 11, 2008)

read below


----------



## amylou (Oct 28, 2009)

ive got a [email protected] set up 4 my beardies and have no problem with them temps at all. i just use the bamboo root i purchased with the tank as there basking spot area. 

how you got your set up, you got any pics?


----------



## griffin (Apr 11, 2008)

newbeardieowner said:


> OK, here is a photo of my viv, The basking light is an Exo Terra Sunglo 100w, and in the canopy which covers the back half of the mesh lid, there are 4 more bulbs, 2 x Reptiglo 10 UV and 2 x Sunglo 25w. These were all included in the kit. We change the basking light for a 50w infrad red light at night, on a thermostat set to around 70F. We changed the sand substrate for lino yesterday, and beneath the bamboo root that they bask on, we have a piece of stone (although I've yet to see them lay on it). Hope this is enough info, looking forward to any advice.
> PS. The size of the viv is 90cm x 45 x 45
> 
> image


honestly, an exo terra for a bearded dragon :lol2: very hard to keep the heat up, as they do like it warm, i wouldnt put the lamp inside the cage, that would mean making a hole in the wire, it defeats the object of having a wire top, just get a bigger bulb. i would not have bought that setup and it is wrong of [email protected] to even recomend that setup for beardies in the first place, its good what uve done with the back and sides to try and keep the heat in but u shouldnt have had to do that in the 1st place. *Quoted from [email protected] bearded dragon info (Unlike most reptiles, adult bearded dragons also eat vegetables rather than solely feeding just on a diet of insects.)* so babies dont eat veg then? :lol2:

well now ive got that off my chest :2thumb: good luck with whatever u decide to do


----------



## callum gohrisch (Jan 8, 2009)

well said


----------



## zune_lai (Feb 6, 2008)

Since it's only on temperature it would also depend on the temps of the room. But also consider to try use a higher basking bulb may slove your problems hopefully


----------



## metaljoolz (Oct 27, 2009)

Take it back and demand your money back! i know for a fact that all the tortoise starter kits where made wrong and that pets at home had to remove them from the shelves! also they had to give the tortoises back in the store near me as the ventilation was wrong...Pet's at home have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER of how to keep lizards properly and youre best off going to a proper reptile specialist store. "The Reptile specialtists" in PAH stores just get sent on a little training course and this in no way qualifies them to be able to educate properly bearded dragon care! Garrrr can you tell i'm anoyed! he he 
If you have any other problems come on here where we can all help.


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

metaljoolz said:


> Pet's at home have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER of how to keep lizards properly and youre best off going to a proper reptile specialist store. "The Reptile specialtists" in PAH stores just get sent on a little training course and this in no way qualifies them to be able to educate properly bearded dragon care! Garrrr can you tell i'm anoyed! he he
> If you have any other problems come on here where we can all help.


I happen to be one of those unqualified people that have no idea how to keep lizards properly. I find your comments offensive and would appreciate it if you could put just a tiny amount of thought into what you post in future. I am not an idiot and don't appreciate people implying that I am simply because of where I work.
Bearded dragons are not hard to care for at all so I'm not sure what qualification you would like the employees to undertake before selling the animals?

Also, your comment about going to a 'proper reptile specialist store' does make me laugh. How many threads on here do you see about people being misinformed about what they actually need for their reptile of choice? At least PAH are standardising the information given out across the company.


----------



## metaljoolz (Oct 27, 2009)

sorry but i work at pets at home and am currently in the process of quiting because of the reptile 'lack' of care in my store..they have lost geckos already due to impaction because they had no clue about it! Fair enough if you already had reptile knowledge so are actually capable of giving the correct info, and i apologise for that, but i've spoken to the woman who is the head of reptiles for PAH in the uk and she is not as knowledgable as she likes to think she is! For a start she thinks beardies dont need to be bathed and that they can get moisture from spraying them with water in their vivs!!! fist of all terrible idea as then it will create humidity in the viv....and secondly, they can only intake water through their vents underneath or if the drink it...which isn't natural for them to do! in their natural habitat there is only about 8mm of rainfall a year...so they dont come across pools of water that often! All beardie owners should be informed to bathe their beardies to help prevent dehydration and impaction..(which will occur if beardies are kept on sand like PAH suggests!)
i am currently studying on an exotic animal management and conservation course at the mo so i do know about these animals.


----------



## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

These threads are beginning to get to me a little now, I try not to post, but some comments made really make it impossible not to.

For all of the people who question the ability of the staff to educate people on the reptiles they sell, and the merits of the courses they take I ask this:

What qualifies you to educate someone on a specific species? Have you done any courses? 

There would appear to be quite a few hypocrites about...

There are clearly different ways to maintain any species, simply because you choose a different way does not be default make the way PAH (or any one else) wrong. People really should try to remember this.

Andy


----------



## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

metaljoolz said:


> sorry but i work at pets at home and am currently in the process of quiting because of the reptile 'lack' of care in my store..they have lost geckos already due to impaction because they had no clue about it!
> Just keeping an animal on sand does not cause impaction. This is very ill informed. IF the animals died of impaction in such a short time it was either affecting them before they arrived, OR they had other factors affecting them, for example large parasite burden.
> 
> 
> ...


Some of your explanations would suggest differently. 

Andy


----------



## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

Ok getting back to the problem of getting the temps up.

It looks like your probe is on the basking spot. Try lowering it to the bottom of the viv and measuring the temp at the basking spot.

Most dimming thermostats (thats what you need) dont do temps of over 100 so you need to move the probe away from the bit that you want to get that warm.

You dont need a red bulb or thermostat for night time unless your home gets below 60f at night. Dragons do better if the night temps are low.
If your house does get that cold a ceramic is better than a bulb.

In that viv a 100w spot bulb will get the basking area nice and warm as long as your home is not an igloo. 

"3 male dragons in the same viv" ??? they must be gay dragons.!!!! or old age pensioners.

P


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

newbeardieowner said:


> OK, here is a photo of my viv, The basking light is an Exo Terra Sunglo 100w, and in the canopy which covers the back half of the mesh lid, there are 4 more bulbs, 2 x Reptiglo 10 UV and 2 x Sunglo 25w. These were all included in the kit. We change the basking light for a 50w infrad red light at night, on a thermostat set to around 70F. We changed the sand substrate for lino yesterday, and beneath the bamboo root that they bask on, we have a piece of stone (although I've yet to see them lay on it). Hope this is enough info, looking forward to any advice.
> PS. The size of the viv is 90cm x 45 x 45
> 
> image


The 100w spotlight needs to be placed directly above the hotrock, this should give you the ideal basking temperature. The hotrock contain a thermal cut out and will not exceed 40c. The ambient temperature is less import than the basking temperature, but ideal should not drop below 15c at night.


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't think there's much I can add to Andy's post. It's mentioned everything I was going to...



metaljoolz said:


> but i've spoken to the woman who is the head of reptiles for PAH in the uk and she is not as knowledgable as she likes to think she is!


Can I ask you to PM me which store you work in and who it was you spoke to?
I was under the impression it was a man that dealt with the reptiles (I won't put his name here)....


----------



## Jim B (Dec 24, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> These threads are beginning to get to me a little now, I try not to post, but some comments made really make it impossible not to.
> 
> For all of the people who question the ability of the staff to educate people on the reptiles they sell, and the merits of the courses they take I ask this:
> 
> ...


Couldnt agree more! 

too much bull on here nowadays :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

One other thing I just noticed...when I bought the beardies, I asked the salesperson if they have teeth, she said no, they just have two 'plates' in their mouth, but just saw one of mine 'gaping' today (hope this means it isn't overheating?) and saw teeth top and bottom! Bit of a shock! lol
BTW - in response to the person suggesting I use the hot rock that came in the setup, I'm afraid I don't as I've read too much about them not being too good for them.


----------



## Welsh dragon (Oct 27, 2009)

Did the sides and backing decor come with the viv or did you buy it seperate as Ithink it looks great and would love that for mine. I bought the backing paper but prefere the imitation rock effect.


----------



## robbies-reptiles (Nov 8, 2009)

i have to agree looking at this post that the "starter kits" they are selling are not brilliant but they certainly arnt rubbish, i consider it the minimum required space to house 1 bearded dragon. and it sounds like the stat u have doesnt work to good, take the hot rock out immediately as it will burn your dragons. but other htan that, they have uv and prety much everything else. and you know u can slate [email protected] as much as you want but if you had done your research first( i research for over 3 months before buying my first bearded dragon) you wouldn't be in the situation in the first place. i am not here for a quarrel just stating my opinion on the matter


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

If I have a customer looking to buy a starter kit, I always tell them that it will only be large enough for a few months if buying one of our small dragons. If they are interested in a large dragon, I won't sell one unless they have a larger setup.

Just because it is labelled as a starter kit, doesn't mean that it is designed for the animal for life. I'm not sure why everybody is assuming that is what the company are suggesting as it isn't.

If anybody wants to test my knowledge, I'll be in a store in the London area this weekend. Please feel free to PM me and find out which one (I'm not going to write on the public board). I would hope that I can reassure you that not all employees are dithering idiots.


----------



## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

James D said:


> If anybody wants to test my knowledge, I'll be in a store in the London area this weekend. Please feel free to PM me and find out which one (I'm not going to write on the public board). I would hope that I can reassure you that not all employees are dithering idiots.



You see now you have said that James I'm desperate to find a question you don't know the answer too... Bless me eh?! I suspect it would be a long way for me to travel just to ask a question though.

Andy


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

robbies-reptiles said:


> i have to agree looking at this post that the "starter kits" they are selling are not brilliant but they certainly arnt rubbish, i consider it the minimum required space to house 1 bearded dragon. and it sounds like the stat u have doesnt work to good, take the hot rock out immediately as it will burn your dragons. but other htan that, they have uv and prety much everything else. and you know u can slate [email protected] as much as you want but if you had done your research first( i research for over 3 months before buying my first bearded dragon) you wouldn't be in the situation in the first place. i am not here for a quarrel just stating my opinion on the matter


The hot rocks provided in the setup WILL NOT BURN the dragons, they are in fact much safer than heat mats!


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> You see now you have said that James I'm desperate to find a question you don't know the answer too... Bless me eh?! I suspect it would be a long way for me to travel just to ask a question though.
> 
> Andy


Lol Andy.
I'm sure there are many questions you could ask me that I wouldn't know the answer to. As interesting as I found genetics in my degree, it wasn't my best subject....

I just hope that with time, the good stores can prove themselves to be just that. People should remember that within a company that has over 250 stores, there are bound to be some that aren't great. These few stores shouldn't cause people to assume that every employee is only out for a quick sale and couldn't care less about the animals welfare.


----------



## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

James D said:


> Lol Andy.
> I'm sure there are many questions you could ask me that I wouldn't know the answer to. As interesting as I found genetics in my degree, it wasn't my best subject....
> 
> I just hope that with time, the good stores can prove themselves to be just that. People should remember that within a company that has over 250 stores, there are bound to be some that aren't great. These few stores shouldn't cause people to assume that every employee is only out for a quick sale and couldn't care less about the animals welfare.



You got me, I was going to ask you a slightly taxing question sub-species 'hybridization' in the captive leopard gecko complex... but I suspect you'd have answered it fine.

You are right though, there seem to be some past issues but In general the company seems to be moving in the right direction. I can see why PAH are selling Exo terras to house animals, they look good, and are functionally suitable for a variety of animals. Unfortunately some people don't realise that they in no way are suggesting an adult bearded dragon should be kept in one. However situations DO vary, and they is no firm right way to do anything, if people were prepared to accept this, there would be many less greenhouse living armchair experts throwing stones....

Andy


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

In reply to the person who asked whether the polystyrene fake rock background and sides came with the kit, the back one did, but I had to buy the side panels (£7.95 each, so not too expensive). Bit of a pain to cut to fit in properly but have definitely helped to raise the temps, in fact today both the BD's have spent time 'hiding' on the wall behind the plant in the cooler end! 
As for using the heat rock that came with the kit, I am still confused as to whether or not this is safe, coz as quick as one person says its ok, another one says its not?? Anyway now the temps seem better I think it will be OK without it for now.
In reply to the person who said I should've researched viv's etc first, I absolutely agree, but hindsight is a wonderful thing! lol Anyway I think I've learnt my lesson, an expensive one at that!
Thanks once again for all the great advice, its really helped


----------



## Mrs Dragon Wolf (Oct 28, 2009)

We bought the exact same set up from PAH,on Oct 8th this year and also bought two juvenile Beardies from them at the same time, we took the Viv home, set it up and went back later that day to collect our Beardies, we have no trouble getting the required temps, we don't use the heat rock as such, it's just there as another surface for them.

We have also added branches for the Beardies to climb and lie on, rocks collected from local places, (bleached and scrubbed to death, oven baked before being placed in the Viv). We also added a dimmer stat as we found temp were getting to high Beardies were staying at cooler end

Once our Beardies are about a year old they will be put in a purpose built 6 foot VIV.

They are what they say they are A STARTER VIV, price everything up separately, (as we did) ,and it is a good buy IMHO


----------



## Knarf3 (Aug 25, 2008)

Mrs Dragon Wolf said:


> We bought the exact same set up from PAH,on Oct 8th this year and also bought two juvenile Beardies from them at the same time, we took the Viv home, set it up and went back later that day to collect our Beardies, we have no trouble getting the required temps, we don't use the heat rock as such, it's just there as another surface for them.
> 
> We have also added branches for the Beardies to climb and lie on, rocks collected from local places, (bleached and scrubbed to death, oven baked before being placed in the Viv). We also added a dimmer stat as we found temp were getting to high Beardies were staying at cooler end
> 
> ...


Back to my comment a few pages back. I think it is a slight issue with set-up that was causing the temps to be on the low side. Would defo move the temp probe lower as i had to for our dragon when we had him. And as said by 'Mrs dragon wolf' it is only a starter kit which will do the job of keeping the dragons till you get a 4x2x2viv which you are going to have to buy at any case.

What i would say is now that you are on the fourm you will get tons of info and will be in a position to source all the bits you are going to need for your loved ones. And it will be a lot cheaper than any reptile shop..

Oh If it were me the hot rock would be out the window or back to the shop as i would not risk my baby's with it. And as they don't need a heat mat you are double safe..

Enjoy the dragons...But watch out they are addictive :lol2:


----------



## xlouise17x (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey

This is just a quick question for anyone who has bought the [email protected] Bearded Dragon Starter Kit. In the compact top where exactly does the compact uvb and sun glow lights go? Do they go uvb uvb sun glow sun glow or uvb sun glow sun glow uvb. 

Thanks

Louise


----------



## newbeardieowner (Oct 29, 2009)

They go UVB, Sun glo, UVB, Sun glo...this gives them a broad spectrum of light wherever they are...although one of my beardies has now got into the habit of climbing up the background and basking directly beneath just one of the UVB lights, which isn't great


----------



## crestiefan (Nov 5, 2009)

Insulate the outside of the tank.
I did it and it worked for me!!!!
(admittedly it was 4 cresties not beardies.)
:2thumb::2thumb:


----------



## jamestheball (Apr 28, 2009)

i haven't read all the thread but if its not reaching the required temp its faulty, I would personally get a 5ft+ viv instead so they have a large enough viv for the rest of their life. 
And whoever said Australia only get 8mm of rain a year and there is no such thing as puddles is complete BS. I lived in Australia for a number of years and i go back every year and i see beardies around. And we got more then 8mm of rain by far, and explain why there are tadpoles in puddles if Australia can't get more than 8mm of rain. That was an ignorant post, i highly doubt you've lived in Australia.


----------



## dom-2k6 (Dec 3, 2009)

i paid £190 for my whole set up that includes the bearded dragon and 2 tubs of medium crickets


----------



## BFG (Jan 21, 2010)

xlouise17x said:


> Hey
> 
> This is just a quick question for anyone who has bought the [email protected] Bearded Dragon Starter Kit. In the compact top where exactly does the compact uvb and sun glow lights go? Do they go uvb uvb sun glow sun glow or uvb sun glow sun glow uvb.
> 
> ...


Ideally you would want an even spread of UVB and UVA so i'd go A - B - A - B. The sunglow one will say 2.0 on it which is your UVA bulbs. Hope this helps


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Why oh why oh why do people use [email protected], they are the tesco of the Pet world, jack of all trades, master of none. Lost count of the number of times (working in the aquatics trade) that I have had to spend with customers putting [email protected] mistakes right. The list I have of what they do wrong is endless and makes it even worse that they are actually selling livestock. Really really p!$"es me off.


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

andypc said:


> Why oh why oh why do people use [email protected], they are the tesco of the Pet world, jack of all trades, master of none. Lost count of the number of times (working in the aquatics trade) that I have had to spend with customers putting [email protected] mistakes right. The list I have of what they do wrong is endless and makes it even worse that they are actually selling livestock. Really really p!$"es me off.


It must be nice to be master of all things aquatic...
If you do a search for Pets at Home in this section, you'll see what my opinion is. I've typed my argument way too many times already...it seems pointless typing it out again.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

James D said:


> It must be nice to be master of all things aquatic...
> If you do a search for Pets at Home in this section, you'll see what my opinion is. I've typed my argument way too many times already...it seems pointless typing it out again.


:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

I do hold diplomas in Fish Management & Fish Husbandry, so I'd reckon pretty much I'm better qualified than most at [email protected] to know what I'm talking about


----------



## Beetlemike (Dec 23, 2009)

like some one else has said, one of the reasons your having temps probs, is your stat probe is totaly in the wrong position, feed the probe behind the back drop & feed it out through the gap at the bottom, not half way down the back ground like you have done lol


----------



## Jaxsin (Oct 18, 2009)

andypc said:


> :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> I do hold diplomas in Fish Management & Fish Husbandry, so I'd reckon pretty much I'm better qualified than most at [email protected] to know what I'm talking about


LOL..... No Harm get your head out of your arse seriously

Back on topic personally I have seen one of these setups being used in front of me and it worked fine and temps were great these are a STARTER setup and when I was asking a member of staff about this I was recommended to upgrade it once I noticed the beardie getting to big for it but personally I don't bother buying setups I make them myself can make them whatever length and shape you need.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Jaxsin said:


> LOL..... No Harm get your head out of your arse seriously


:lol2::lol2::lol2:

Wouldn't have needed to be up there, if others stopped making judgements based on knowing nothing about me, my background or what I do


----------



## Kiel (Aug 20, 2009)

seems a sensible place to put this:

my aunt called me last night. she'd been planning to get a beardie for a few months after seeing how awesome mine is (<3). she had the viv for a while and found a breeder with babies ready.

she went to her local petshop (west yorks) to buy all the kit and called me all excited.

she said she had sand. i got a sinking feeling in my stomache, asked if it said calci-sand on the label. it did.

she said she got a heat mat. gr.

she said she got a heat rock. i got angry.

"at least i got the striplight" - what kind? "i don't know, it had fish on the box" GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

she's getting a baby beardie, sand isn't ideal i told her. mine is adult and i'm on sand and not too keen so i suggested she goes with kitchen roll until it grows on a little. i told her to take the mat, rock and light back. i also told her to punch the seller in the eye for cashing in on her inexperience.

sometimes i wish i lived closer to my family. only sometimes.

so it's not only the big chains that screw newbies over


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Kiel said:


> so it's not only the big chains that screw newbies over


Indeed it isn't and that's what annoys me, you'd think any shop selling livestock would want the best for their livestock


----------



## Kiel (Aug 20, 2009)

she's buying the dragon from a breeder but she was very excited and made it clear to the dunce in the shop


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Well i suppose the good thing is that she has someone in you who can help educate her or ask for tips


----------



## Jaxsin (Oct 18, 2009)

andypc said:


> Indeed it isn't and that's what annoys me, you'd think any shop selling livestock would want the best for their livestock


I know what you mean even if its just to protect their profits pet shops must not lose much money over deaths as they don't seem too bothered if an animal is dead or hurt. Theres an independent shop here in my area and its one of the worst shops I've ever been in even for mammals the owners an alcoholic well I think as he and the shop stinks of drink everytime you go in but once I heard he was gonna start doing reptiles it made my stomach turn as he can't even keep care for hamsters. The worst I've seen is the baby and adult terrapins an adult YBS was in a tubaware box the EXACT same size as the adult he couldn't turn, move and had none of the basics like uv, heat or even WATER. The babys I feel sorry for they were all just piled into the one tubaware tub with a bit of water thats almost black and no land.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

I think we all have examples of really poor shops, where you feel really sorry for the poor animals that are kept there. What gets me is that these are still in business, surely the amount of bad advice they give, the state of thier livestock and most importantly the health of their stock is or isn't what keeps customers going back, but I suppose they capitalise on those cases where maybe customers aren't as savvy.


----------



## Jaxsin (Oct 18, 2009)

What really gets to me is that if any of these shops are reported theres never anything really done about it I know many people who have reported shops all over the UK and nothing is ever done or well done that is noticable.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Agreed, I think if its a fluffy cat or dog then the authorities would be all over it like a rash


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

andypc said:


> :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> I do hold diplomas in Fish Management & Fish Husbandry, so I'd reckon pretty much I'm better qualified than most at [email protected] to know what I'm talking about


I have no formal qualifications for my knowledge with reptiles, but I am considered to be one of the best people in the company to speak to about them. I do have a degree in zoology, which has helped but it's my own experience and research that has proven most beneficial.

You say in a later post that you don't like people making assumptions about your knowledge....I would appreciate it if you didn't make any assumptions about mine just because of who I work for.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

I'm not making assumptions about you, far from it. I hold my hands up on my criticism of [email protected] because I have seen first hand what their (not yours) bad advice has done and on a all too frequent basis


----------



## Button12 (Nov 28, 2009)

James D said:


> I have no formal qualifications for my knowledge with reptiles, but I am considered to be one of the best people in the company to speak to about them. I do have a degree in zoology, which has helped but it's my own experience and research that has proven most beneficial.
> 
> You say in a later post that you don't like people making assumptions about your knowledge....I would appreciate it if you didn't make any assumptions about mine just because of who I work for.


 
:whip: get told!

i dont have any qualifications, but ive had beasties all my life and experience is better than reading a book! :bash:

and i'd just like to say, why are people insitant on slagging pah off just because there a national company, i happen to supply their bird products and dont appreciate all this slander beacuse with cold weather means i get overtime to supply them.
i could sit for hours and slag my local pet shops off, but because their local nobody would give a s:censor:t just because evrybody has heard of pah they seem to think its ok to bad mouth them, what your going to do is put people like me out of a job! and pah do have a fairly good record, its just the law of averages, the more you supply the more problems/complaints your going to have. get over it!


----------



## Button12 (Nov 28, 2009)

and bad advice from untrained 16year old staff, as much unhelpful as it is, is unnaviodable with a shop that sells mostly fish and furries, go to a proper rep shop if you want proper advice from expeirienced staff! pah are just filling a void in the market and do try train their staff as best they can its just some people are only their for the money not the animals! im sure you have people at where you work that just dont give a rats a:censor:.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

Button12 said:


> :whip: get told!


:lol2: Hardly,

But I am only saying what I have seen first hand based on Aquatics and the very limited Reps they have started, they are probably very good in some areas


----------



## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

Ok I couldn't be a**** to read the full thread but Glasgow Gecko you get a high-five and to the OP put a towel across the top of your enclosure and it should help raise the temps.


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

andypc said:


> I'm not making assumptions about you, far from it. I hold my hands up on my criticism of [email protected] because I have seen first hand what their (not yours) bad advice has done and on a all too frequent basis


But that's just it....you can't say that the company as whole is bad without making assumptions about all of its staff. There are over 250 PAH stores and there are bound to be some better than others. I would just appreciate it if people said 'the staff in my local PAH don't have as much knowledge as I think they should' rather than 'PAH know nothing'.....

I find it very frustrating that I'm constantly knocked down because of who I work for. Even customers that come into my store and ask me for advice are happy to tell me that I know nothing.....despite the fact that I wrote my dissertation in the subject I'm advising them about. Not everyone that works for PAH is a 16 year old idiot.

(Edited just to say that I'm not suggesting 16 year olds are idiots!)


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

ok, my bad, sorry if this came across personally. I apologise

Should I rephrase then that of the half a dozen or so that I have been in, 3 locally and the rest whilst I've been on my travels, I am yet to find one I feel like they know what they are talking about or that I would be comfortable spending money in.

If my posts were assumptive towards [email protected] in general I apologise


----------



## Button12 (Nov 28, 2009)

James D said:


> Not everyone that works for PAH is a 16 year old idiot.
> 
> (Edited just to say that I'm not suggesting 16 year olds are idiots!)


i never meant it like that, i just meant the school leavers/uni undergrads that just want to pay rent didnt give a toss. obviously there are other members of staff, that are just there for the money, and there's a lot that do care. i think its just pot luck who serves you.

anyway. stop bad mouthing pah!


----------



## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

I would try a higher wattage bulb and other strategies mentioned to raise the temps in the viv. Keep in mind that this is a 'starter kit' and may not be suitable for very long. However when you get a more appropriate setup for your fast growing beardies you will have a fantastic viv left over for your next reptiles.

Regarding PaH and the way they are handling the reptile sales, I wish people would adopt a different approach. Rather than ranting about PaH here, why not write your concerns down and send them to their head office. Try to talk to the individual store managers about the problems but take hard evidence, eg copies of recognised and established care sheets to back you up. There is nothing to be gained by calling PaH crap on here but doing nothing to put things right. Harsh reality is, PaH has taken a major financial decision to get into the rep buisiness. They are also in cahoots with Hagen and have invested millions into this venture. This will not go away, PaH will not give up on their reptile venture. 

The hobby we love is under great threat from those in power who wish to take it away from us. We have at last got a big, financially powerful organisation that will support our hobby and fight with us to keep it alive. Please try to see the bigger picture and try to help PaH to get it right regarding their reps. We could certainly do with the sort of backing they can give. No 10 and the assosciated misinformed people who are trying to place massive restriction on our hobby wont be influenced by you and I. A recent petition to No 10 about preserving our hobby met with a very negative response. A multi national company with millions of pounds worth of investmant will have a much louder voice and the resources behind them to help preserve reptile keeping in the UK. Please rethink and get PaH on our side but lets help them get it right in the process.


----------



## Darwin (Apr 12, 2008)

SkyCaptain said:


> PaH are selling beardies in pairs? Oh dear.
> 
> I dont know if you'll be able to return the equipment, sorry I can't help.


Thats exactly what I thought...the OP will need two vivs before long


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Mal said:


> I would try a higher wattage bulb and other strategies mentioned to raise the temps in the viv. Keep in mind that this is a 'starter kit' and may not be suitable for very long. However when you get a more appropriate setup for your fast growing beardies you will have a fantastic viv left over for your next reptiles.
> 
> Regarding PaH and the way they are handling the reptile sales, I wish people would adopt a different approach. Rather than ranting about PaH here, why not write your concerns down and send them to their head office. Try to talk to the individual store managers about the problems but take hard evidence, eg copies of recognised and established care sheets to back you up. There is nothing to be gained by calling PaH crap on here but doing nothing to put things right. Harsh reality is, PaH has taken a major financial decision to get into the rep buisiness. They are also in cahoots with Hagen and have invested millions into this venture. This will not go away, PaH will not give up on their reptile venture.
> 
> The hobby we love is under great threat from those in power who wish to take it away from us. We have at last got a big, financially powerful organisation that will support our hobby and fight with us to keep it alive. Please try to see the bigger picture and try to help PaH to get it right regarding their reps. We could certainly do with the sort of backing they can give. No 10 and the assosciated misinformed people who are trying to place massive restriction on our hobby wont be influenced by you and I. A recent petition to No 10 about preserving our hobby met with a very negative response. A multi national company with millions of pounds worth of investmant will have a much louder voice and the resources behind them to help preserve reptile keeping in the UK. Please rethink and get PaH on our side but lets help them get it right in the process.



Well said Mal. Everyone should read and understand your post.


----------



## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Mike, its a point I have tried to raise on several anti PaH threads. Unfortunately it seems to fall on 'deaf ears'. People are not aware of how realistic the threat to our hobby is, to the scheming ways that certain organisations are using to try and end it. It will be too late when the Govt has put in place so many restrictions that reptile keeping will be driven back into the dark ages when only the 'odd people' kept such weird pets. This is a golden opportunity for the reptile keeping community to have a big organisation on its side. I readily admit PaH are wrong in some of the ways they deal with reps. The same could also be said of numerous privately owned reptile shops. However the right approach, ie polite but carefully worded letters to the head office, face to face calm conversation with store managers could possibly overcome many of the problems. Even our local independantly owned Rep Shop owner can see a benefit from PaH entering into the rep world and he doesnt think they are a significant threat to his trade. Its time people looked at things a bit more realistically and turned their rants into a constructive form of critisism. As James clearly demonstrates in this thread, there are some fantastic reptile loving people working in PaH. They must get sick of hearing people saying how crap they are. I admit I was anti PaH at first but after giving it some thought realised it could be something very positive for us. So people, please stop using the Forum for the weekly moan about PaH and try to push towards them getting it right.

To the OP, Im sorry if I have hijacked your thread. Your concerns and critisisms are very valid. You have had excellent advise from people to give a temporary solution to your problem . It has now put you in a strong position to contact PaHs head office and outline your concerns and the poor standard of service/information you received. If PaH keep getting letters explaining the problems, are told of the advice/ experience and feelings etc of people in such things as RFUK they will eventually have to sort things out.


----------



## BigHeadBen (Dec 30, 2009)

well when they couldnt help me (at all..) when my beardie's heat bulb went, i bought a heat rock and used it for 2 days until i could get a bulb. Put in straight back in its box and said it wasnt what i had wanted. They were so dense i could've put a bag of sand in...they didnt even look in the box! Good luck!


----------



## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

I am so glad that at least one PAH store has a member of staff that is somewhat qualified in the rep dept.

I dont like supermarkets for obvious reasons and when one opens half a mile from my shop i am entitled to be disgruntled when i lose custom and even more disgruntled when they decide to begin stocking reptiles without adequately qualified people looking after their fish let alone the furries.

yes i am trying to be a businessman but i am one that cares more for the welfare of my animals over profit. (A rare breed)
P


----------



## Tiger Lily (Dec 28, 2009)

I recently visited PAH for the first time and i was very impressed with their store. Granted not alot of reptiles but more than i have seen in other chain pet stores. I wouldnt buy a starter kit from anyone, including PAH and thats just personal preference. I cant comment on their starter kit as i havent looked at it in great detail but their animals are kept in great condition and the vivs are nice and clean and they sell a variety of things. Overall i liked the shop but im sorry to hear about your situation and i hope you can get things sorted soon.


----------



## Prezzy (Jan 21, 2010)

*hello*

hi people im new to this but just after some advise i recently bought a pair of bds but can only seem to get the basking temp around 95 is this ok or no? i have a 150 watt ceramic heat bulb in there is this enough? any help would be kindly appreciated


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Mal, your point is a very valid one, and seems to be something a lot of members forget. The number of people that come on here to moan about the company and yet do nothing to actually improve the situation is very frustrating. I KNOW that the reptiles are looked after very well in my store, and that the advice being given is 100%. I always have my mobile with me on my days off and can't remember the last day I didn't receive a call from someone at work needing help with a reptile related issue. I've even given my personal email address to customers so that I can give continuing advice when they are too far away to pop in regularly.

I would hope that if someone had a problem with the reptiles in my store, they would go through the proper channels rather than bitch about it behind my back. Not all stores have people with a lot of personal experience with reptiles and they may not realise they're overlooking something. The course we're sent on does cover pretty much everything they would need to know, but it can be a little daunting and I can imagine it would be easy to overlook something small. I should be training another stores reptile team in the next week or 2 so hopefully that'll be another one giving out sound advice.



Mal said:


> As James clearly demonstrates in this thread, there are some fantastic reptile loving people working in PaH. They must get sick of hearing people saying how crap they are.


Indeed I do.
It's not just on here though. As I've said before, customers will come into the shop, ask for my advice and then tell me I'm wrong when I know 100% that I'm not. Staying calm in that kind of situation is incredibly difficult...


----------



## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

To be honest i had my first bad experience the other day at a [email protected] 

They had three leopard geckos, all severely underweight babies.

I politely suggested they take them to the vets and they said they would, to make sure, I wrang head office and they have been very helpful, animals have been to the vets and I will calling/checking in over the week as i would seriously love the little fellas.

I do believe they try but as thats been said, there are some things that I don't agree with like selling beardiestogether when unsure of sex etc, same with the leos.

The beardies at the place i go also had their temps at only 24C and they were piled ontop of each other but hey


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Bradders100 said:


> To be honest i had my first bad experience the other day at a [email protected]
> 
> They had three leopard geckos, all severely underweight babies.


Sorry to hear that. We never seem to get any leos under 4-5 months of age in our deliveries. I'm fairly happy about that though as they're obviously well established by the time they come into us.



Bradders100 said:


> I politely suggested they take them to the vets and they said they would, to make sure, I wrang head office and they have been very helpful, animals have been to the vets and I will calling/checking in over the week as i would seriously love the little fellas.


This is a perfect example of how to fix a problem...
You raised the issue politely and it was dealt with straight away. I hope they make a full recovery and you are able to home them.



Bradders100 said:


> I do believe they try but as thats been said, there are some things that I don't agree with like selling beardiestogether when unsure of sex etc, same with the leos.


I honestly don't see why this is an issue...
As long as the potential new owner is explained the risks such as competition/bullying and what would happen with 2 mature males/a male and female pair then surely it is down to the buyer to make the right decision. I can honestly say, the only 2 beardies I have sold together were 2 adult females. I have made every single person interested in 2 fully aware of what can and does go wrong and they have ended up getting a single beardie.



Bradders100 said:


> The beardies at the place i go also had their temps at only 24C and they were piled ontop of each other but hey


Were you looking at the thermometers built into the units (little black boxes with a pink/red button on)? If so, those units stick at random temperatures and you have to push the reset button (the pink/red one) too get a current reading. Plus the fact that if the temperature probes are knocked out of position (which they very frequently are by hungry beardies!), the termometer is pretty useless!

Temps. in the unit are checked by the Field Pet Manager and the owner of our supplier _before_ any animals are put in so it is very unlikely the hotspot was actually as low as that...


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

What an amazing thread full of such rubbish.

I simply dont know where to start as theres rubbish from almost everyone even pet shopowners on here!!!!

I personally dont give a stuff wat qualifications people have Ive been through University and Im fully aware of those people who love throwing their qualifications around at me.

In this sort of thing hands on experience and reserch can often be far more beneficial.

I personally dont see Pets at Home as any more different to just about every pet shop ive ever been in, basically jack of all trades and some times master of a few.

One thing about Pets at Home though is they do carry the knowledge to enable you to make an informed choice on most of the things they sell.

There is nearly always a caresheet or book to purchase on every animal they stock.

Major gripe for me is pricenow as for some reason they seem to have shot up on a lot of things. Used to be very cheap for pet food etc but not so now. However everything in general has gone up amazingly.

I was astounded however at the prices of Beardies in my local Store at £100 coudnt bloody believe it and some people have bought two. I dont know what size this was actually for though as they currently had none in stock.

Heat rocks looking at specs shouldnt be dangerous but thats up to personal choice.

Sand Why on earth not have you seen where they come from? Mind I would stay clear of calci sand.

Impaction on leos bet they had an underlyng problem like ulcers as most animals when ill try to ingest something to try and clear it rather like a dog would eat grass and a cat its furr.

OP states was advised that the starter kit would be suitable for two juveniles...I 100% agree with that.

If temps however were not reached I would say it was more down to individuals home environs. ive seenmany people on here cladding cresty vivs with heatmats but at end of day its because there house was colder than a morgue. You do however seem to know what temps they should be kept at, presumably as advised by Pets at Home so its now down to you to regulate those temps within your home environ.

You may possibly have an arguement to get themto replace the bulb with one of a higher wattage but thats as far as it goes for being unfit for purpose.

Someone also mentioned an arbitary tempo and all the babies climbing on top of each other as though this was a factor due to alow temp, strange this as every batch of Beardies Ive ever seen has displayed this habit, bugger me were they all in cold vivs. 26 degrees is still pretty damn warm!!!!! thats like a very good summers day over here!!!

OK selling pairs. Now whats been done here is selling two probable clutch mates something Im not too keen on. This may have massive implications and should be discussed and Im not sure if this has been done in this case.

Should be OK if two females and could even be OK if two males but as soon as you get into the male female scenario you get onto the old two hamsters scenario where all of a sudden you have 20. Bred too young and to siblings.

However what a fantastic piece of sales, sell two in a small viv suitable for juvis and they will be back when they are fighting or mating for two sets of bigger vivs and an incubatoir!!! (dont even know if they sell these)

Thing I love about these threads and many others is these internet folklores though, a few people say one thing, then the next people whove just bought the same animals repeat the same and then it repeats itsself until you can only keep an animal in a 20 x 20 foot enclosure wearing frilly nickers and kept on velvet in a strange puce colouraton!!!!! under a IVB light at 7.37 %


----------



## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

James D said:


> Sorry to hear that. We never seem to get any leos under 4-5 months of age in our deliveries. I'm fairly happy about that though as they're obviously well established by the time they come into us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes we have the exact same system in our shop ^^
all done by casco too ^^

I have to admit, they are a completely rubbish thermostat things, i think about 4 of ours have broken already, another keeps beeping and the numbers go crazy and we are forever turning it on and off and re setting it x_x
oh the stresses!!!



And I find it an issue because a hell of alot of people don't listen, with having to deal with it in my own shop. And I think its a cruel tactic to get people to come back and buy new enclosures etc, this is just my personal opinion really


----------



## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

andypc said:


> :lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> Wouldn't have needed to be up there, if others stopped making judgements based on knowing nothing about me, my background or what I do


In short:
qualifications do not make you "know what your talking about" at all, yes you have intelligence to interpret what you have been told, remember it, and write it down in an exam or w/e, but first hand experience is so much more important, right now, i could say i "know what im on about" with the human heart, as i am studying biology at higher education, but i wouldnt go giving advice on how to operate on a heart would i?
Experience> Qualifications.


----------



## ju5t1n (Jan 10, 2010)

i dont know the ins and outs of product buying,but if youve been "told" that this is the kit for you and its all there and it isnt fit for purpose you have been mis-sold this item and therefore intittled to your money back (i believe) and another thing worth looking at is the packaging if it says something like "bearded dragon starter kit,all you need" then its a lie and again you should get your money back.
another point you have a pair? beardies should really be kept in seperate vivs but there are cases where they have been kept in pairs!

on the pets at home thing,my other half went there for some food for my beardie i said i need " medium locusts and medium silent crickets" i got these both and also got 4" long adult locusts the person in the shop said"your othere halfs dragon will love these" clearly incorrect advise as they look more likely to eat my beadie!!!


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

In all fairness why post on regulations if you don't know ins and outs. How exxactly is this not fit for purpose its perfectly sized for size of animals as is we also don't know further advice given also when asking for locusts did you say what size your beardies were?


----------



## ju5t1n (Jan 10, 2010)

yes she did say what size the beardie was and they said it would be fine,now its not a dig at the employee more a dig at the lack of training given.
now if im wrong then ill hold my hands up but ive always been under the impression that if your sold something that doesnt do what its supose to then your intittled to your money back,now i understand you have to take into concideration the temp of the house the positioning of the viv so on and so forth but if your not ever getting the right temps then youve not been sold the right item,and if its a case of them exchanging a bulb for a different wattage happy days!


----------



## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

The biggest "problem" I've found with trying to educate myself about basic reptile care is there is SO MUCH conflicting advice, from pet shops (big and small) as well as so-called "experts" I sometimes don't know what to beleive :blush:


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

NaomiR said:


> The biggest "problem" I've found with trying to educate myself about basic reptile care is there is SO MUCH conflicting advice, from pet shops (big and small) as well as so-called "experts" I sometimes don't know what to beleive :blush:


Well confuse yourself more by posting on here tthen


----------



## ju5t1n (Jan 10, 2010)

NaomiR said:


> The biggest "problem" I've found with trying to educate myself about basic reptile care is there is SO MUCH conflicting advice, from pet shops (big and small) as well as so-called "experts" I sometimes don't know what to beleive :blush:


this is true.as said above the best way to learn is hands on,its good to read and absorb as much advice as possible and to also read a few books,i mean no offence to anyone by saying this so please dont get anoyed! but ive always been under the impression you need to take advice from forums with a pinch of salt,every thing is different and people do things differently


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Bradders100 said:


> And I find it an issue because a hell of alot of people don't listen, with having to deal with it in my own shop. And I think its a cruel tactic to get people to come back and buy new enclosures etc, this is just my personal opinion really


While I agree that an awful lot of people will listen to your advice and then disregard it completely, I really don't see this as the problem of the shop/person selling them. If the new owner is made fully aware of the potential problems they may face housing two together and they still choose to go ahead, then it is solely their responsibility.
As far as it being a cruel sales tactic, that would only be true if they were not made aware of the potential problems...


----------



## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

There are two problems with Pets at home and thats.

* Giving little info to new owners
and 
* Selling equiptment that isn't suitable.


I mean they sell a cage that i would say is hamster sized for guinea pigs. They sell reptiles to people who have NEVER kept one before and just send them on their merry way, with no info, guides, anything :bash:

Yes it's the owners fault to for not researching but if you get told a Leo is '' as easy to care for and maintain as a hamster'' from the staff then what are they to think? This is what a shop worked told me when i played dumb and asked about the Leo's :censor:

[email protected] is interested in making money! Thats it, most rep shops open because they Love them and want to sell quality stock to people who are as passionate as they are. 

I have NEVER been in a [email protected] and come out happy. If it's not the overly priced stock, it's the staff who don't have a clue :devil:


----------



## ditzychick (Aug 21, 2009)

stephenie191 said:


> There are two problems with Pets at home and thats.
> 
> * Giving little info to new owners
> and
> ...


 

same old story im afraid, you may have had a bad experience in your local pah and im not saying they are all good but until you have been in the 250 plus stores, tested each individual on their knowledge, then your statement does not really have any strength to it. Now i could say the opposite i have been in my fair share of rep stores or small private pet stores and found their items to be more expensive and animals not very well cared for, but im not on here slating them.

*EVERY* reptile keeper was once newbie, never having kept them before.

You tell me a pet shop that is not in the business to make money, surely thats pretty much the point of having one:whistling2:

If you are never happily satisfied with pah then, simple, don't shop there.

As many others on here have already said time and again, unless you didnt read the whole thread, if you have a problem, speak to a manager, if not ask for the head office details and note the precise problems with the store, i dont think there is much point in saying their stock is overpriced :Na_Na_Na_Na: Seriously though, if you make an effort to complain they will do something about it.


----------



## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

ditzychick said:


> same old story im afraid, you may have had a bad experience in your local pah and im not saying they are all good but until you have been in the 250 plus stores, tested each individual on their knowledge, then your statement does not really have any strength to it. Now i could say the opposite i have been in my fair share of rep stores or small private pet stores and found their items to be more expensive and animals not very well cared for, but im not on here slating them.
> 
> *EVERY* reptile keeper was once newbie, never having kept them before.
> 
> ...


 
Yes the point of any shop is to make a profit however theres a difference between a genuine shop that cares for their animals and one that doesn't.

I've been in quite a few [email protected],all of them in my area (4) and a good few up and down the cotunry. All been the same. :whistling2:

Why can't i say the stock is over priced? It is and i'm simply giving my opinion and many others!

I know more people who have had a sick animal from [email protected] than any other store in my area. That in itself speaks volumes.

I don't care if they have 100 stores, every single one should be up to scratch. The staff know very little. . . in ALL the stores i've been in.

I mean, in one a stick insect landed on me and the staff simply shrugged it off and said there was a hole in the tank! i mean :gasp:

I will say what i think, when it comes to [email protected] animals and staff, its shocking.

I rarely go in now, if i do it's for hay or sawdust. Thats only if i'm passing and i'm desperate for it. 

My guinea pig cost me over £100 in vets bills and had to be pts at 5 months old. My hamsters all died within weeks. (about 3 as i kept taking them back, dead in the box until i gave up and went somwhere else) 

I can go on and on! It's a national chain and it's interested in making a profit. If they just sold stock it wouldn't be so bad. 

I'll say whatever i want about them because all i ever hear is that they're shit! Not just of rep owners but small animal owners too. When they improve their staff and pets in every store then i won't moan about it. I could deal with the prices. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Ohh and i was a newbie once yes, however i did my bloody research before buying a 'cute looking rep'. The small rep store i went to helped me out with care sheets and books. Unlike any [email protected] i've been in. And i was only 13!


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Stephenie, your argument is very weak so I'll break it down to make sure I don't miss anything.....



stephenie191 said:


> There are two problems with Pets at home and thats.
> 
> * Giving little info to new owners
> and
> * Selling equiptment that isn't suitable.


I have never sold a reptile to anybody without going through every aspect of their care with the potential owner first. Even if they say that they have been breeding them longer than I've been alive, I'll ask exactly the same questions.

What equipment is it we sell that isn't suitable?
Not every piece of equipment in the repile hobby is suitable for every species....Perhaps you meant to say 'Selling equipemtn that I deem unsuitable'?



stephenie191 said:


> I mean they sell a cage that i would say is hamster sized for guinea pigs.


No we don't.
Our customers are always advised that the more space you can provide the better, however it's up to the customer to decide in the end. We cannot force them to make the decision to spend more money and provide more space....as long as they have the MINIMUM sized cage required, there is little else we can do. Obviously, they will be refused the sale if they want to keep a guinea pig in a cage that is litterally hamster sized.



stephenie191 said:


> They sell reptiles to people who have NEVER kept one before and just send them on their merry way, with no info, guides, anything :bash:


Oh my God...imagine being sold a reptile having never kept on before.....I suppose you've always had them?
I do not send anyone 'on their merry way'. As I said above, I always cover every aspect of captive care. I would never send an animal home with someone that knows nothing of their care (reptiles and non-reptiles included).



stephenie191 said:


> Yes it's the owners fault to for not researching but if you get told a Leo is '' as easy to care for and maintain as a hamster'' from the staff then what are they to think? This is what a shop worked told me when i played dumb and asked about the Leo's :censor:


Are you honesty trying to say that leos are difficult to look after?
I would say they're easier than a hamster to look after, and that's going from personal experience as I have kept both. Reptiles are much lower maintainance than mammals as they require less feeding, less cleaning and smell less. They also make much less noise than a hamster running in a wheel (unless you're talking abot my _L. lugubris_ which chirp for England).



stephenie191 said:


> [email protected] is interested in making money! Thats it, most rep shops open because they Love them and want to sell quality stock to people who are as passionate as they are.


Absolute tripe.
How do you suppose all these reptile shops are staying open if they aren't making money? What do you suppose the bank manager would say when they applied for a business loan just to 'share the love'?



stephenie191 said:


> I have NEVER been in a [email protected] and come out happy. If it's not the overly priced stock, it's the staff who don't have a clue :devil:


Perhaps you should think about shopping elsewhere.
Also, just as a side note, I'm not an idiot and I do know what I'm talking about


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

stephenie191 said:


> I know more people who have had a sick animal from [email protected] than any other store in my area. That in itself speaks volumes.


Actually, that means very little.
You'll probably find that your local PAH sells many more animals than the other stores in your area. If you look at it as a percentage of the animals they sell, I'm sure you'll find it's not quite as bad as it seems


----------



## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

You work for [email protected] and of course your going to defend it. :whistling2:

I don't have to prove my points to you. Like i said i rarely go into [email protected] anymore and i certainly don't buy pets from there.

Maybe you should go into every single store before spouting off about what you know? Ever thougt of that?

Your one employee. I may be one customer but i know what people tell me and what i've seen and heard with my own eyes. :lol2:


----------



## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

James D said:


> Actually, that means very little.
> You'll probably find that your local PAH sells many more animals than the other stores in your area. If you look at it as a percentage of the animals they sell, I'm sure you'll find it's not quite as bad as it seems


[email protected] put litters of animals together. Any breeder, keeper or rescue would tell you to quarantine any pet before you put it together with another. 

Adleast the pet shops i go in keep litters apart and disinfect cages/vivs before adding more into it.

Private pet shops all the way, more personal, pleasent, and knowledgable on a whole :no1:


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

stephenie191 said:


> You work for [email protected] and of course your going to defend it. :whistling2:
> 
> I don't have to prove my points to you. Like i said i rarely go into [email protected] anymore and i certainly don't buy pets from there.
> 
> ...


So what if I were to tell you that thousands of people I know have said PAH is the best shop around? Word of mouth isn't everything.
The company has its downfalls, but so does every shop selling animals.

You're right, you don't have to prove your points to me, but maybe next time you shouldn't post things you aren't willing to explain.

The fact that I'm an employee doesn't mean that I would defend them if they were in the wrong. My store is excellent for animal care and knowledge, if it wasn't I wouldn't still work there.



stephenie191 said:


> [email protected] put litters of animals together. Any breeder, keeper or rescue would tell you to quarantine any pet before you put it together with another.


This is incorrect.
All of our animals are quarentined before being put onto the shop floor. It is only rabbits and guinea pigs that might be mixed, but that is after the quarentine period is up. It's much more than a lot of shops do...



stephenie191 said:


> Adleast the pet shops i go in keep litters apart and disinfect cages/vivs before adding more into it.


All of our cages are disinfected every day whether they have the same animals in them as the day before or not.



stephenie191 said:


> Private pet shops all the way, more personal, pleasent, and knowledgable on a whole :no1:


That's your opinion and you're entitiled to it. I would like to ask though, if you dislike the company so much and think all its products are so overpriced, why do you go in there at all?


----------



## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

I don't drive so if my mams passing and i know i'll need hay the next day i don't have much choice. My pets come first. 

I'm not even going to bother explaining further, will it change your view? Or anyone elses? 

It's the joys of being an adult with a brain, i get to say what i like:Na_Na_Na_Na: No matter who agrees. So i geuss, deal with it maybe:whistling2:


----------



## ditzychick (Aug 21, 2009)

:lol2: I think someone needs a chill pill. Eveyone is entiltled about there opinion and most have been civil about it. 

I was only stating that mentioning actual problems you have encountered would be more useful then telling a company they are to expensive. 
Having a tantrum on here is not going to do any good.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## ju5t1n (Jan 10, 2010)

the person the posted this surely jsut wanted a bit of advice and its turned into a [email protected] fight :lol2:
everyone has there opinions i will still shop there allthough i am upset with the insects they sold my OH,i dont mean to argue but someone mentioned something about percentages its true its like comparing joes car garage to quick fit :whistling2: there be very happy customers and very disgruntled ones too.


----------



## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

stephenie191 said:


> It's the joys of being an adult with a brain, i get to say what i like:Na_Na_Na_Na: No matter who agrees. So i geuss, deal with it maybe:whistling2:


But a *mature* adult would take on board the points that Mal made earlier in the thread. And as for "no matter who agrees"...don't worry, I'm sure that many antis will be right behind your comments, which will, ironically, mean that we may well all have to deal with it :whistling2:


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

stephenie191 said:


> I don't drive so if my mams passing and i know i'll need hay the next day i don't have much choice. My pets come first.
> 
> I'm not even going to bother explaining further, will it change your view? Or anyone elses?
> 
> It's the joys of being an adult with a brain, i get to say what i like:Na_Na_Na_Na: No matter who agrees. So i geuss, deal with it maybe:whistling2:


Stephenie, my problem isn't that you don't like the company....as I said in my last post, you're entitled to your own opinion.
My problem is your flat refusal to believe that there are good stores out there. You have been to a handful of stores and may have had a bad experience, however, the fact is that PAH is a very strong company and does please the majority of its customers. People are much more likely to report a bad experience than a good one which is why the company get so much bad press. I can say that in my store, less than 5% (maybe even less) have problems with their pets. As far as reptiles go, I actually had the first return since we started selling them (June last year) and that was due to them not following the advice I gave (which would have resulted in a healthy dragon).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is gather more facts before you start slating an incredibly successful, multi-national business next time...


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

Stephanie once again you slate a shop without any real knowledge, remeber a certain case against a pet shop in your local area, I think the peopleyou put down so strongly are still waiting for anapology from yourself when found through the courts there was in fact no case to answer other than a fire hydrant in the wrong position and a couple of other minor points.

You are actually quite dangerous for any retail trasder and really should come off your high horse once in a while and as for being grown up and having a brain i believe the jury may still be out on that one!!!!

Someone who has a catalogue of friends saingt heir animals have died and you your self having a string of them from there is ridiculous, and yet you have managed to not only go in all 4 in your area but also been to a number elsewhere and yet still rely on mum to drive you to them all its quite unbelievable really!

And whats this rot about letters being kept together!!!

Whats so wrong about litters being kept together and needing quarantine from each other, they were bloody well born together if a litter!!!!!

What All Pets at Home do is seperate the sexes out though which clearly tells the customer that they should not mix sexes. Not seen this happen with reps yet but there again in the one I have seen them in they only had a few vivs and only a pair of leos in full stop.



Just a couple of the incidents you mention would be enough for me to say no ta i will go elsewhere and as for choice Im sure theres a tescos, Asda, Sainsburys etc near you all of which sell the above mentioned stocks and cheaper than Pets at Home in general as well. I say in general as they all have loss leader lines which outdo the others.

Back to OP they have unwittingly bought an enclosure which will not be suitable for use once the Beardies grow on and may have further problems if the pair turn out to be a sexed pair or two males!!!

AS stated before the only probs that may be up with this setup is the heat source but this was easily remedied by the extra insulation purchased. may possibly need a different wattage bulb but once again you can cater for every setting.

Id still use them but wouldnt purchase certain things from them and this would include reps but merely due to price. However if they wereto get subadult cresties in say and had a base price regardless for them and I spotted some nice females in there, well yes id seize the opportunity and rip their arms off as i did in a pet shop near me recently and did even better as it had lost tail!!!

Have fun with the fish sometimes when they get odd things in, just tell them its a cheaper species and walk away with a nice bargain, see not beeing 100% specialists has its advantage but can happen in any pet shop around the country and it does regulalrly, you find me a pet shop with good amount of stock where owner knows about them all!


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

I take it this is the same setup?

Exo Terra Bearded Dragon Set Up Starter Kit | Net Pet Shop


----------



## TurntableZ (Jan 25, 2010)

At the moment its very hard to keep a balance on the temps as its so cold outside. Just hold out. If you can also keep the temp in the room warm all day that will help. Try moving your thermostat around in different positons in the Viv and you'll find the right balance, its takes time. Also get a hotter lamp like someone else has mentioned. If your new to the whole lizard thing like me then you will get to grips with stuff soon.:2thumb:


----------



## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Olivine, and a couple of others that have read my post and supported my thoughts, thankyou. Its nice to see others can look at the bigger picture and hold the interests of the reptiles and the hobby we love at heart. 

People please see sense. I didnt like the idea of PaH selling reps anymore than anyone else did. However its not rocket science to realise that no matter how much people rant and rave on here they will not stop. They, along with Hagen, have invested millions in this venture. The best we can possibly do is work towards ensuring PaH get it right and at the same time gain a fantastic ally to the rep keeping community. Please read my earlier post if you havent done so. The weekly have a bash at PaH threads are achieving nothing. 

Stephenie, Im sorry to say it, but your posts indicate a very narrow minded and blinkered mentality. Have you done anything constructive to correct the defecits in the 4 PaHs you refer to ? If not, why not ? Surely if you are witnessing serious breaches of animal welfare you are morally bound to do something constructive about it. To continue giving the stores your custom and doing nothing about the problems is in actual fact 'turning a blind eye'. It is more likely that the sales of dry goods and equipment that provides the revenue to keep the stores open. The actual sale of livestock will only contribute a percentage of the overall stores profits. Quite simply, your custom, even though convenient for you, simply helps the stores continue with their practices. You are indirectly contributing to the conditions that you find so appalling. Your dual standards, inactions and outbursts are just the sort of thing that the antis love. 

To the OP, Im sorry your thread has been sidetracked. I hope your beardies are feeling warmer now after the advice youve been given. It would be great if you contacted PaHs head office and let us know the outcome.


----------



## andypc (Aug 6, 2009)

At the end of the day its all about an individuals experience or opinion of a certain store, there experiences there in are what has formed this opinion and it is just that, an opinion, a view that they have taken, it isn't right it isn't wrong no matter what the 'for' or 'against' views are and the person in question shouldn't be criticised for holding this opinion. It isn't narrow minded to hold a different opinion to other forum users.

One thing I have found since joining this forum is that any bad views on a store or product are allowed to be aired. On numerous other forums I use this is expressly forbidden for risk of slander & libel. Good comments are allowed and should be shared and aired, whereas bad comments are only allowed to be discussed via PM.

These posts re Pets at home do seem to occur on a frequent basis, be it because of the size of the group you may be more likely to get complaints or be it because there is no smoke without fire and the knowledge and care is lacking, I don't know, all I do know is there is yet to be a store that I have visited which in my opinion I would feel comfortable, that is MY OPINION and I am allowed it. In addition as mentioned above on other forums I use for my pets lets just say that Pets at home is a regular feature too:lol2:

If a view negative or otherwise against a certain shop be it a chain or independent are allowed then we owe it to other forum users to point out what we see as good and bad about them, let them form a view from this instead of slating a user because they don't agree with your opinion, as they say there a two sides to every story and I think most users are able to form a balanced opinion when provided with these two sides.

Anyhow that's just my opinion folks:lol2:


----------



## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

and its wrong AndyPC...... 


Not really !:2thumb:

I think the trouble with Pets at Home is merely bevause its a large chain and its sor of trendy in this country to attack such.

See the same on othe big forums in all walks of life, successseems to be frowned on in this country.

at the end of the day we have choice, tonight on this very thread ive even posted a link to the exact same product a lot cheaper. 

A few moments on the net gacve me this result.

Didnt even need to leave my house and its free delivery.

Could do the same wih a beardie buy one on here for free or even a fiver and get it couriered to my door for £30 or so, get my live food through a few clicks of a button.

infact sod it Im never leaving my house again....ha up yours big commercial companies 


But at the end of the day its choice. many many people will only trust big shops like Pets at Home, others will be introduced to the world of reptile keeping through them etc etc etc ..

This forum could even gain more trade through them, even gain an income from advertising.


----------



## carla0202 (Feb 27, 2010)

I recently purchased a beared dragon from pets at home, the starter kit set up was perfect the temps were exactly as they should be. I took a liking to a particular dragon he was so tame and placid he was great. I went back to pick him up the next day and his eye had closed i questioned this with the person selling it me and they blamed it on shedding they also ticked that they had given him a health check. Two days later i had to take him to the vet where they told me he had an injured eye which was infected, his bones in his back legs were weak and he was underweight and becoming dehyrated. I was disgusted at this at went straight back to pets at home and spoke to the manager. He payed the vet bill and gave me supplements to help the dragon. The manager was fantastic so it goes to show that there are some absolute idiots that work there and there are some great people that care about the animals. I had a follow up appointment for my beardie and he had to be admitted and sent to a specialist. I then was told that he may have to have a operation if he doesnt get better they may have to put him to sleep to stop the suffering. I am absolutely heartbroken!! I cant believe that they would sell me a pet that was so ill! I spoke to pets at home and they said that they will replace the dragon i was so angry i requested to speak to the manager straight away. I explained that you can not just replace a pet you have bonded with it isnt just some object thats not working, the manager apologised and said that they will pay the vet bill no matter the cost to try and get the dragon better. I just want some advide on what i should do now i am waiting for feedback from the vet about my beardie but the vet explained that this now falls under section 9 of the animal welfare act although i am mad at the store the manager was fantastic so where do i go from here? Any advice would be fantastic!!!!


----------



## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

if you got the recipt give it a go


----------



## JeremyFidelis (Jan 30, 2010)

heres a guess but probably correct , the starter kit comes with no stat.... as many start sets so they look cheap and cheerful when really you need a stat before anything else!


----------



## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

have you taken the beardies home yet because i think pah policy on reptiles is thst you take the set up home first set it up work through the care guide and then if you still want the animal you go back fill in their questionaire and if you pass you can then take the animal however if you take it home and then change your mind then you can take the set up back. however i also think that their policy is also that if you want their reptiles then you have to have their equipment which in my opinion is some of the worst around. so if you haven't already taken the animals i sugest taking the set up back and lookig else where i think wooden vivs are the best for beardies anyway. hope this is helpfull and hope things work out


----------



## dragonet (Feb 14, 2010)

Can i ask what the lkit included? just incase we can advise on anything else that maybe wrong. like what substrate you were given, uv light etc


----------



## Dragon84 (Sep 20, 2009)

Just thought i'd quote this for people who might have missed it, without a doubt the best thing said about PAH, just wish people would take your advice.


Mal said:


> Regarding PaH and the way they are handling the reptile sales, I wish people would adopt a different approach. Rather than ranting about PaH here, why not write your concerns down and send them to their head office. Try to talk to the individual store managers about the problems but take hard evidence, eg copies of recognised and established care sheets to back you up. There is nothing to be gained by calling PaH crap on here but doing nothing to put things right. Harsh reality is, PaH has taken a major financial decision to get into the rep buisiness. They are also in cahoots with Hagen and have invested millions into this venture. This will not go away, PaH will not give up on their reptile venture.
> 
> *The hobby we love is under great threat from those in power who wish to take it away from us. We have at last got a big, financially powerful organisation that will support our hobby and fight with us to keep it alive. Please try to see the bigger picture and try to help PaH to get it right regarding their reps. We could certainly do with the sort of backing they can give. No 10 and the assosciated misinformed people who are trying to place massive restriction on our hobby wont be influenced by you and I. A recent petition to No 10 about preserving our hobby met with a very negative response. A multi national company with millions of pounds worth of investmant will have a much louder voice and the resources behind them to help preserve reptile keeping in the UK. Please rethink and get PaH on our side but lets help them get it right in the process*.


and like many people have said, out of all these people who aren't happy with PaH it seems that the majority still use them, or even worse just come on here and complain. If you don't voice your opinion at the shop, PaH or a local shop, then nothing will get done to solve the problem: victory:


----------



## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

Dragon84 said:


> Just thought i'd quote this for people who might have missed it, without a doubt the best thing said about PAH, just wish people would take your advice.
> 
> and like many people have said, out of all these people who aren't happy with PaH it seems that the majority still use them, or even worse just come on here and complain. If you don't voice your opinion at the shop, PaH or a local shop, then nothing will get done to solve the problem: victory:


i do agree with you however i think one of the problems is that the stores are not acting in a uniform way. as some one said there are over 250 stores and not all of them are bad but i think that since they are a big chain they should all should be of the same high standard. the only problem i had with my store is that they took the approach of they know best. but i actually agree with alot of the policies that the store holds. they seem to be in the middle of a learning curve and maybe it is our job to steer them in the right direction. but with the amount of money put in i'd have thought they'd have been a little further down the line by now.


----------



## jarvis and charlie (Mar 27, 2009)

personaly if your a member on this forum allready ,then theres no reason to go to these places for a set up , look at all the care sheets people have made and put time in to do to help people out also theres builders here that could do a cheeper set up.


----------



## Doodle (Aug 7, 2008)

hey! i personally love annoying big companies, so here is a little bit of info which means they have to offer you a refund or give it you as credit to wards an appropriate set up.

the Sales of Goods Act states:

'Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).'

the website for more info is here http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

enjoy ;-)

*edit*
Note, they are not fit for purpose, hence this can be used to offer a refund and/or a replacement with you making up the additional cost if the required set up is more costly


----------



## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Doodle said:


> hey! i personally love annoying big companies, so here is a little bit of info which means they have to offer you a refund or give it you as credit to wards an appropriate set up.
> 
> the Sales of Goods Act states:
> 
> ...


Oh dear.


----------



## kazzy (Aug 17, 2009)

*my PAH is just starting to sell reptiles,, they have equipment in the store but no reptiles yet,, i have been looking into getting a beardie so obviosuly reading this thread on PAH starter kits has been pretty interesting ,,,, id also just like to say i spoke to a member of staff to find out when there getting there beardies in and he said probably end of week and he was looking forward to selling them as the staff are on a bonus when they sell reptiles i dont know if this is for all stores or just my local one*


----------



## lee young (Oct 14, 2009)

I cant actually believe this thread is still goin on. 14 pages, impressive. Obviously being a massive chain there is going to be a load of variation in between individual stores.... Plus, its worth bearing in mind that this is called a STARTER kit. While it might be far from perfect for a beardie for its whole life, it definitely does exactly what it says on the tin. If it was called a "Bearded dragon full perfect setup with everything it will ever need in one box kit" then I might be a bit annoyed.

At the end of the day, research and preperation is key.


----------



## Sephiroth (May 1, 2007)

don't really want to get too involved in this, but the Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that a product must be fit for the purpose for which it was intended. If a Bearded Dragon Starter Kit is unable to provide the correct conditions required (temps, etc) then isn't it unfit for purpose?


----------



## The Roach Hut (Mar 29, 2008)

newbeardieowner said:


> OK, this is my dilemma: I (stupidly) went and bought the Pets at Home bearded dragon starter kit, which as I've already mentioned, we are having problems getting the temps high enough in the basking area (around low to mid 90's, and cool end high 70's).
> I wish I could turn the clock back, but unfortunately we have now spent alot of money on it all (£199 for kit, plus another £35 for stand to hang light on, plus all deco, food bowls, supplements, red light and thermostat for nighttime (not included in kit) etc. I now realise we were stupid to buy this kit in the first place (due mostly to the very 'knowledgable' and convincing sales person who assured me this viv set-up was more than satisfactory for the 2 juvenile BD's we also bought to go in it) but now it seems we are stuck with it
> My question is this: does anyone think I would have any grounds for going back to the shop and asking to return it, due to it not reaching the required temps? (Obviously not before sorting out another viv to replace it first) I can't believe how much I've fallen for this cute fella's already, and really want to do whats best for them.
> Any advice would be much appreciated,
> many thanks


 you would have grounds to take it back based on the fact that it was advised to you as suitable for the dragons, if they sell u something that is not fit for purpose such as this setup then your within your rights to ask for a refund. but u may neeed to get trading standards involved or ur local council as they shouldnt be selling stuff not capable of doing the job


----------



## byron1987 (May 7, 2009)

dickvansheepcake said:


> Yep the one near me has deals on buying two together, I thought it a bit odd as the beardies aren't even big enough to sex yet. Not very responsible of them really!


do c what the sex has 2 do with it seeing as u shouldn't house 2 together anyways


----------

