# British adders



## aadarachnids (Feb 16, 2010)

hi i was wondering if any of you DWA holder keep adders and has anyone got them into colour phases yet?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Personally I discourage anyone from trying to keep Adders.

If you are prepared to go to Europe and buy CB then that is acceptable but they are not an easy species to get going.

I know one top class keeper in the UK who who has successfully kept/bred and a good number in Europe.

I'd keep them IF I could have an outdoor set up, however I imagine the LA who issue my DWAL would be really pissy about that idea!

IMHO there is no reason to keep that species in an indoor vivarium set up.

Others may disagree but that my view, best seen in the wild!


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Others may disagree but that my view, best seen in the wild!


Totaly agree with that:2thumb:

Theres two places in kent, eagle heights and the british wildlife centre that keep adders in outdoor set ups but there also wild around those areas to. Was funny to see somone freaky about the "escapie" once..


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

slippery42 said:


> Personally I discourage anyone from trying to keep Adders.
> 
> If you are prepared to go to Europe and buy CB then that is acceptable but they are not an easy species to get going.
> 
> ...


 
Also I think it is BANED to keep uk adders (but could be wrong )


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

brian said:


> Also I think it is BANED to keep uk adders (but could be wrong )


Brian,

It is ok to keep them provided the keeper has a DWA, the issue is where they come from.

IMO it should be illegal, simply no real need unless you have the right set up


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

slippery42 said:


> Brian,
> 
> It is ok to keep them provided the keeper has a DWA, the issue is where they come from.
> 
> IMO it should be illegal, simply no real need unless you have the right set up


Ha right.....


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## nooney165 (Mar 28, 2010)

slippery42 said:


> Personally I discourage anyone from trying to keep Adders.
> 
> If you are prepared to go to Europe and buy CB then that is acceptable but they are not an easy species to get going.
> 
> ...


agreed but i think people (with good knowledge) should start to breed them to keep the population going just breed and releasing hatchlings to the wild because it is very hard to find one in the wild in the uk

that just my opinion sorry if im wrong


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

nooney165 said:


> agreed but i think people (with good knowledge) should start to breed them to keep the population going just breed and releasing hatchlings to the wild because it is very hard to find one in the wild in the uk
> 
> that just my opinion sorry if im wrong


there not hard to find if you go the right places and you no were to look


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

nooney165 said:


> agreed but i think people (with good knowledge) should start to breed them to keep the population going just breed and releasing hatchlings to the wild because it is very hard to find one in the wild in the uk
> 
> that just my opinion sorry if im wrong


 
Came across a few last year without even looking...ln4 4lr


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

brian said:


> Came across a few last year without even looking...ln4 4lr


Is that the best idea. with some of the morons on here?


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Owzy said:


> Is that the best idea. with some of the morons on here?


Was gonna say the exact same thing.


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## puff the magic adder (Jun 23, 2010)

nooney165 said:


> agreed but i think people (with good knowledge) should start to breed them to keep the population going just breed and releasing hatchlings to the wild because it is very hard to find one in the wild in the uk
> 
> that just my opinion sorry if im wrong


It is good that people actually care enough about our native reptiles to suggest conservation methods like this, but in the case of the adder I do not think it would be appropriate.

Adders are more common than the general public (including most reptile keepers) realise. Personally I think this is because people walk around with their eyes closed and never acually take the time to look properly. My peronal record is 17 adders in one morning, and this is by no means unusual.

The biggest threat to UK adder IMO is habitat destruction and poor habitat management, often by the very conservation organisations that should be protecting them. The release of additional animals into populations that are already threatened/declining will therefore just put additional stress on that population as more individuals compete for the little resources available. A much better approach is to protect and restore habitats which will result in natural population growth without the need for releases. 

Oh, and adders are viviparous, so the babies are not 'hatchlings'.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Absolutely Puff. There is no need to keep these. If you want to do something to help them, volunteer with your local ARG or Wildlfe Trust, or at least donate.


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## puff the magic adder (Jun 23, 2010)

brian said:


> Came across a few last year without even looking...ln4 4lr


Not broadcasting the locations of adders site on a public forum is also a good start 

Also, with regards to keeping V. berus in captivity, I think it is far more advisable to go for one of the more southern European viper species, such as V. ammodytes or V. aspis, since these are far better suited to indoor vivaria and are regularly available CB, thus not requiring animals to be taken from the wild.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

They're also a protected species. You can keep CB ones but not WC. 

Difficult to properly husband, venomous, mostly illegal to keep even with a DWA. In summary, there's better pets!


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## kain (Mar 23, 2009)

Khaos said:


> They're also a protected species. You can keep CB ones but not WC.
> 
> Difficult to properly husband, venomous, mostly illegal to keep even with a DWA. In summary, there's better pets!


You can keep wild caught adders, its not illegal to keep them as pets if you have a DWA


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Khaos said:


> They're also a protected species. You can keep CB ones but not WC.
> 
> Difficult to properly husband, venomous, mostly illegal to keep even with a DWA. In summary, there's better pets!


They only have limited protection under the Wildlife and Countryside Act!

Its a shame they are not fully protected!


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## Becky Rose (Jul 7, 2008)

kain said:


> You can keep wild caught adders, its not illegal to keep them as pets if you have a DWA


just because you can does that mean you should??


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## PESKY (May 25, 2010)

i cant remeber where i read it but i read an article about captive keeping there incredibly hard to get feeding as they stress out a lot, also as others have said there almost impossible to keep happy and healthy in indoor enclosures and breeding is almost impossible


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm lucky enough that the company I work for is situated in the sticks as it were. In the grounds of the factory there is a big electric box surrounded by thorns and bushed etc. The adders in the area use it as a hiberneculem, Ive pulled up a number of times and founf shed skins sprawled across the car park so they are in abundence in that area! I can also go and find them on my breaks, I've found two in a single 20 minute coffee break before and during the summer you can find them basking almost every time I go for break. I shouldnt do it but sometimes I'll get one on a stick and place it in the feild were I sit and eat my lunch and just watch it for half an hour while I eat my dinner, the adder slithers off in its own time and its just meters from were I found it.

I dont think they are rare or indangered, just hard to find to the untrained eye if you like.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

STReptiles said:


> I dont think they are rare or indangered, just hard to find to the untrained eye if you like.


That is a rather broad statement and inaccurate.

They are reasonably common in some counties and can in certain instances be locally very common.

However, there is evidence that they are on the decline across much of their range and that in some areas they are in serious decline or totally absent.

Habitat fragmentation, poor local management (wildife trusts/park authorities etc), and on going adder bashing from idiots as well as killing by the likes of game keepers all affect these snakes.

They should be fully protected to the same degree as Great Crested Newts in my opinion but those wasters at Natural England are unlikely to push for that level of protection for a venomous snake

Hopefully Tony Phelps will be publishing his new book on the species in the near future and that goes in to some detail on the current status and threats face by adders in the UK

This one is one of many I have treated.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

smart1 said:


> there not hard to find if you go the right places and you no were to look


Have to disagree a little with that statment, i have a few sites near me where over the years ive watched a lot of adders and in the last few years there becoming more and more difficult to find..


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Around the places in Cornwall where I grew up there were lots of adders. You don't see as many now as the surrounding land has been built on but the moor type places still have lots.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Everybody goes on about how they shouldn't be taken from the wild etc, but the other snakes that we keep now were taken from the wild at some point. Yeah most are now captive bred, but to get that line of captive bred animals some had to be taken from the wild. 

Also all this talk of only being allowed to keep one if you have a DWAL is once again one of those things that baffles me.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Everybody goes on about how they shouldn't be taken from the wild etc, but the other snakes that we keep now were taken from the wild at some point. Yeah most are now captive bred, but to get that line of captive bred animals some had to be taken from the wild.
> 
> Also all this talk of only being allowed to keep one if you have a DWAL is once again one of those things that baffles me.


They're a front fanged venomous snake of the Viperid genus, therefore covered by the DWAA, hence ownership of one requires licensing under that act...............not difficult to understand really. As for taking from the wild, it's perfectly legal, as long as you understand that you need to be licensed. Once you've taken one tho it becomes a captive animal and you can't then go and release it again, if you breed, you cannot legally dispose (sell, give away) of the offspring without proving that they were indeed captive bred, and the onus is on you to prove they were, not the authorities to prove they weren't. Plus they are historically very difficult to establish in captivity, they do not take to F/T very well at all and most often will die before they eat..............all in all, best to leave them where they are then.............still baffled? I doubt if you are, but I seem to remember you want to do the DWA "thing" but CBA with the cost of licensing and setups etc......(un)fortunately you won't get round it this way either


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> They're a front fanged venomous snake of the Viperid genus, therefore covered by the DWAA, hence ownership of one requires licensing under that act...............not difficult to understand really. As for taking from the wild, it's perfectly legal, as long as you understand that you need to be licensed. Once you've taken one tho it becomes a captive animal and you can't then go and release it again, if you breed, you cannot legally dispose (sell, give away) of the offspring without proving that they were indeed captive bred, and the onus is on you to prove they were, not the authorities to prove they weren't. Plus they are historically very difficult to establish in captivity, they do not take to F/T very well at all and most often will die before they eat..............all in all, best to leave them where they are then.............still baffled? I doubt if you are, but I seem to remember you want to do the DWA "thing" but CBA with the cost of licensing and setups etc......(un)fortunately you won't get round it this way either


Think I also remember some odd posts by him in the past. Perhaps he is one of those just out trying to get a reaction and simply does not want to hear that (WC) Vipera berus do not do well in captivity?


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> That is a rather broad statement and inaccurate.
> 
> They are reasonably common in some counties and can in certain instances be locally very common.
> 
> ...


I think 'locally common' is the expression that is often used to describe their population. Where the habitat is right, they seem to do well and aren't that hard to come across. But as you say, with loss of habitat and fragmentation, these habitats are becoming more patchy. Then again, here in S Wales I guess we're a bit spoilt as there are plenty of populations close at hand.

I would also like to see greater protection for adders and grassies, perhaps adding WCA 9(4) habitat-based protection rather that just 9(1) and 9(5).


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Not to mention erosion of wildlife corridors.


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

*Black Adder*

Where I live there are several areas including one tidal island inhabited by the adder. They are locally common. Forestry workers see them everyday, farmers likewise. The local council kept an enclosure in public with Adders I believe, tho funnily enough I never went to see it.
I encountered a good size one at the edge of a local beach and watched that from 3 or 4 feet for maybe 5 minutes. It didn't move and just doubled back on itself.
I have second hand reports of jet black, completely black adders at close range. I've read they can be white to black in one old book. I also hear one local population are larger as a rule.

Thanks


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