# 6 mo. male leo doing the deed... Normal? PLEASE READ



## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

I keep a 6 month old male leopard gecko in a terrarium separate from 2 older females (each no more than 1.5 years old). At the time, I didn't know the 6 month old gecko was a male. I decided to put him in the terrarium with the girls to see how they interact. This was my second time doing this. But this time the male went after one of the females and after a few minutes they finished making love. Later he went after the other female then back to first female. Lucky guy!

I had no plans in mating my geckos. Had I known he was a male and old enough to mate. I would not have put them together. Will the female lay eggs? The male is much smaller than the females (about half the weight). Is it normal for a male that small and young to be making love? 

Other notes:

Event happened last night. I witnessed everything

Male is still with females... getting along

I keep the glass terrariums side by side... they see each other often

The male was housed with a 4-5 month old female blazzing blizzard. She is crazy, I think blind, and i think born with a mental disability. She runs from side to side for no reason and flips out for no reason. 

Names... Male- Siddhartha... Female that got poked- Berta.... Other Female--- Layla.... Young Blazing Blizzard- Esther


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Hiya,

Yes male geckos are sexually mature from about 4 months old so he is well capable of doing the deed. And yes I would expect your females to start laying eggs now. You will need to provide them with a laying box, organise an incubator and keep a close eye on their weights as laying eggs is hard work.

You need to split the male and the female blizzard up otherwise he may mate with her and that would cause you problems as she is too young to be bred from!


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you for the reply. You have a nice website that is very informative. You must be very busy with all your pets. I think Chianti is my favorite.

I kept Siddhartha in the terrarium with the the older females. He is putting it in Berta only. Layla won't give it up and is a bit of a cock block. 

It appears I have to prepare for eggs. This was an unplanned pregnancy but I will have to handle this the best I can and your site provides useful information. 

Just curious, would it be wrong to abort the eggs?


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

if you wasnt looking for them to breed why did you put the male in with females? obviously you must have done some research.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

S/he said s/he didn't know it was male..


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

geckocrazy14 said:


> S/he said s/he didn't know it was male..


yet he watched them mate and let them carry on. :whip:

Plus if its 6 months old, then unless bred he it himself (and i seriously doubt it) he couldnt have kept it in quarantine properly. 

PLUS sounds like some sort of emigma syndrome female thats normally housed with the male.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

clapton said:


> Just curious, would it be wrong to abort the eggs?


As long as you mean "not incubating/destroying" the eggs, it's not wrong, if you don't have the space, time, money and equipment to incubate them, then raise the babies up to a size where they can be sold.

You cannot, however, stop the females from PRODUCING the eggs - and if you do not want eggs and do not want to raise babies, I'd strongly suggest not putting the male (now that you KNOW he's a boy) in with ANY female.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you all for the replies.

Geckocrazy14, you are right... I didn't know it was a male. Not to mention, I thought they were all too young to be sexually active.

Swift_wraith, you are right... even though I don't want the responsibility of dealing with pregnant geckos, I watched them mate... How would you like it if someone pulled you out in the middle of your thrust? Maybe hate them forever. Plus, it was too exciting to stop the act. 

I will research enigma syndrome but do you or does anyone have more info on treatments? How to work with a leo that may have it? Is it ok to house a gecko that may have enigma syndrome with other geckos that do not? Thanks.

Ssthisto, thanks for the lesson in ethics. I meant destroying the eggs. I do have the space, time and money, but I'm not sure I want to use them on raising hatchlings. I still need to think about it and apparently, I don't have much time. 

I would hate to be stuck with a bunch of baby geckos. Would the local pet stores take them (free)? 

Btw, I am interested in raising geckos. But not this soon. I was thinking 2-4 years from now. 
And i will get another terrarium for the male.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

But if your not informed with what breeding looks like then you may not know what do to? For all they know it could of been a normal introduction (I know they should of researched this before hand, I'm not dismissing that).

Also, the breeder may have let the gecko go too early? (also, not dismissing the fact they should have researched this).

I agree, sounds like enigma syndrome.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Replied the same time.
I don't agree that's a good enough reason to not split them up, maybe if you had said you didn't want to damage any if their reproductive parts.

There is no cure for enigma syndrome and I wouldn't house it with any other geckos as the chances of them catching food will be slim to none with a gecko not suffering from it. Along with other reasons.. And you need to assess what it's quality of life is.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thank you for the compliments 

And I agree with Ssthisto - destroying the eggs is not wrong if you do not want to or are unable to incubate the eggs and raise the hatchlings for whatever reason.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm almost certain the geckos mated. Still not sure what I want to do with the eggs. But my gf is pushing me to incubate the eggs and raise the hatchlings. 

Geckocrazy14, what do you mean assess the quality of life? Do you think I should consider putting her to sleep? Or releasing her in the garden? I saw youtube videos and her symptoms are very similar to enigma syndrome... meaning she runs around for no reason, blind, only catches crickets if luck in on her side, performs mini flips, and not a leo to handle. 

Nuttybabez, thanks for the added opinion. But it could be a bit sad to that. Have you discarded healthy eggs?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

If the enigma is struggling with enigma syndrome, there are things that you can do to make her life less stressful - stress makes enigma syndrome worse. Or you could rehome her? Or possibly if shes got really bad enigma syndrome you should consider PTS. Please do not release her into the garden - she would die an awful death out there.

Personally no I have not discarded healthy eggs but I have always been prepared for incubating eggs by the time they have arrived (all mating have been planned!) Theres nothing to stop you from having a go at incubating the eggs - its not too expensive really.


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Clapton, I mean consider putting her to sleep. Personally, I couldn't keep one suffering that much, alive. Constantly feeling drunk and vulnerable. I worked with a cat with cerebral palsy once, she was beautiful, so loving. But whenever she fell over she would get frightened and hiss at you, then it would take her longer to get back up because she was panicking so much, this cat wasn't completely happy. Although when her owners came to pick her up, it was adorable, she knew exactly who they were and was so excited to see them. Obviously this cat couldn't go outside which is a shame. But the point I'm making is if the enigma is affecting her that badly that she can't even hunt properly, then I would consider the next step.. I'm not telling you your an awful person for not PTS'ing her, the decision is a hard one to make, and as said, you could always rehome her to someone familiar with the care of one.. But again, they will still only be able to do so much.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

At least the cat loved her owner. 

True, the enigma does affect my leo's hunting ability. As I said before, she has horrible vision. Last night she was running and jumping aimlessly with no crickets or other leos in the cage. What is PTS? I googled it and found nothing related to reptiles. 

How long till the other female shows eggs? Thanks.


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

PTS = Put to sleep.

the other female will start showing eggs about 2-3 weeks after mating and can lay 2 eggs every 2-3 weeks for a few months. make sure she has access to plenty of calcium powder (not neutrobol, thats a different supplement altogether) throughout her pregnancy as laying eggs will take a lot out of her and she needs the powder to help create good strong eggs. If you cant find any calcium powder, get a cuttlefish and grind it up into a fine powder as thats basically what it is.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

swift_wraith, thanks for the abbreviation and the info on pregnancy terms. Also, I checked out the site you posted. I don't know much of photography but I like the gecko on the keyboard.

I usually dust crickets and worms with calcium powder before feeding. Should I place a small container with calcium powder in the tank? With or w/o worms? Please help I don't want anything to happen to Berta.

Just curious... How would one go about PTS? Is there a way to do it at home?

Thanks


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## geckocrazy14 (Mar 10, 2011)

Sorry Clapton, yeah put to sleep. Some people do it at home, I'm aware it's only done if money is tight though? I would personally go to a reptile vet.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

You would need to have her put to sleep at a vets, its not really something you can do at home safely and humanely.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

I just realized the gecko with the syndrome is a male. So there were two males in the same tank. I once saw her biting the other but thought it was just the crazy in her (I mean him). I'm going to try to rehome before considering PTS.

What does it mean when blue spots appear on pregnant gecko's stomach? Will it harm the egg (I only see 1)?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

That will explain why they were fighting and will have caused stress for both geckos. Whereabouts are you, I am experienced with leos who have enigma syndrome?

The blue spot is probably her gall bladder, it can be seen sometimes through the skin.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm in the Los Angeles area. I realize this is a uk site but when I did a google search, this site came up. Thank you for the offer. 

I'm going to check out craigslist for locals who have experience with enigma syndrome.

Hope you all enjoy the big wedding


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## stesbuzz123 (Oct 13, 2010)

clapton said:


> I'm in the Los Angeles area. I realize this is a uk site but when I did a google search, this site came up. Thank you for the offer.
> 
> I'm going to check out craigslist for locals who have experience with enigma syndrome.
> 
> Hope you all enjoy the big wedding


big wedding :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Ah yeah, L.A. is a bit too far from me!! Good Luck finding a home for your little one


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

stesbuzz123, sorry... should have said, "Royal Wedding" with this smiley::flrt: Coverage starts at 1 a.m. here. I guess they won't be competing for tv ratings. lol. Wonder how it would do against American Idol. Or the soon to come Brit hit X Factor. lol

nuttybabez, a bit too far... lol

On the Leo's: I know the egg laying will take weight off the pregnant leo but she is not eating. She watches crickets walk around and doesn't bother going for the hunt. I place superworms in front of her and she shows no interest. She may not be hungry but I want her to be prepared. Anyone have ideas? Should I try wax worms?


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

Update:

Earlier today I found 2 eggs in the moist hidebox. The eggs could have been there for about 2 days. I found the eggs when I was cleaning the moss... there was feces on it when they normally use the restroom far from that area. When I was cleaning, the eggs could have rolled around. Could that lead to problems this early?

I don't have an incubator so I put them in a moist container (with lid) under a heat lamp in the tank with the crazy gecko. I just did a temp check and it shows 96.2 F in that spot. Guess I should move it to the cool end. Don't need anymore males!!! 

If your curious, I found people in my area that would buy the young.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

Just did, what I believe to be, the candling thing with LED light. I see a dark spot surrounded by a mostly a lime green color in both eggs. I have no idea what this means.


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## clapton (Apr 14, 2011)

***Update***

The first set of eggs caved in on itself. One egg from the second set, laid May 21, hatched today July 13. Very exciting! The little rascal is already running around. I would expect the other egg to hatch soon. 

In case your interested on the incubator method I used...
It is very simple. 
1) put moist sphagnum moss inside a plastic container with lid
2) place the eggs in a grove on the moss
3) put the lid on and place under a ceramic heat lamp

Then I constantly checked the temperature. With the ceramic heat lamp and the temperature here in sunny southern california, most of the time the container was not under the heat lamp and still had a temperature at about 80.

Now I have a lot of reading on how to raise a hatchling. Any advice?


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