# small tank,...



## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i got a 5 gallon tank its set-up and i got 5 glowlight in there to start the tank up (the cycle thing) well they doing well so far i wanted a dwarf puffer and some shrimp but i also like the wild neon, male guppies the small oarnega nd black ones, i dont like betta fish sorry but what woudl u say i dont want my puffer eatting my shrimp but my tank got alot of plants ill take pictures once water is cleared a bit more.

i know this is a small tank but they had one set-up in the shop and it looked nice they had the wild neons, shrimp one sucker fish it was small and fat and thats all i can think, im not 100% sure what i want coz the puffer cant go in with other fish i was told. any ideas please no rush coz im waiting for tank to be up and running.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

In this day and age with so many quality products available and with so much good information about there really is no need to cycle a tank with live fish. I'm not preaching, but whoever told you to add tetras to cycle the tank is a little bit silly IMHO. They'll be subjected to ammonia spikes and so don't be surprised if you lose one or two as they're not the hardiest species known to man. A liquid maturing agent would have been better. Some mature filter media from an established aquarium better still. I'm writing that for others who may read this and plan on setting up additional tanks in the future. A 25 litre tank is tiny. You'll be limited to what you can keep ion it successfully anyway. But two species that are good for nano tanks are celestial danios and micro rasboras.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

all the pet shops that sell fish only say thats the best way and you will have dead ones but i would use the chemical but no one could help.

coz my boyfriend will have the fish i got in there how long do the chemical take to work? and what chemical i need?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Zoe, many shops will tell you this. Even self styled aquatic oddball guru and PFK regular Richard Hardwick told my sister to use oscars to mature her stingray tank fairly recently. As they're "cheap and messy feeders". His well known aquatic shop actually sells numerous products that would mature the filter anyway, so god only knows why such rubbish is still given.....

Some people think fishless cycling is a new thing. Waterlife Research produced a product called Seamature to do this 20 odd years ago. I never understand why people buy fish knowing that they'll probably die as they're aquarium isn't set up yet.

Anyway, heres one possible solution you can order through the post...

Interpet Treatment - No 14 Filter Start - 100ml on eBay (end time 09-Nov-09 16:00:17 GMT)


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## IndigoFire (Apr 11, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Interpet Treatment - No 14 Filter Start - 100ml on eBay (end time 09-Nov-09 16:00:17 GMT)


 
I'm using this at the moment. : victory: It came with my tank.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Agree with above posts:2thumb:

With regards to stocking the tank - If you put a Dwarf Puffer in there, then apart from maybe a few Pygmy corys that'll be it. Dwarf Puffers are highly territorial. They are also very sensitive to water quality. 

Stocking a 5 gallon, you are looking at a maximum of 10" of fish. Thats assuming the filter is good enough. So 5 guppies would be it.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

okay so that thing for the filter i only need to buy that and read about it and use it so the tank will be ready when it say on the box?

sorry to sound stupid but i never heared any of this.

i have looked into puffer and they known to eat other fish and ghosh shrimp are the best coz the puffers cant see them.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

dont use chemicals they dont work you can leave the fish and to speed the process up go to the shop where you got the fish from and ask them if they have a tank set up and ask them if they can squeese some of the sponges from there filters into a bag of water which they have took from the tank and then when you get home squeese your filter sponges in the water and then put them back in your filter and see also if they could give you some bags of matured water either from their system or a tank of their own

the puffer will adventually eat the shrimps sorri, it may take a while for them all to dissapear but it will happen, i think the wild neon guppies would be nice you could have at least ten of them because their so small, but the puffers would look good also i had one in a big tank with a bunch of cichlids and it was great it just floated around the tank peacfully until it came to feeding it lol


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> dont use chemicals they dont work


Thats a very sweeping statement.....

Many products including the one I mentioned do definately work. If the OP is to buy an ammonia and nitrite test kit (Something I'd definately recomend) she'll even be able to plot a graph with daily testing and see the filter cycle, thus proving they work. 

I wonder if your info comes from a PFK article were it was found that one well known liquid maturing agent that had been on sale for years was found to contain the wrong bacteria and thus be ineffective? If so, it's now been changed. You can read all about it PFK's forum. If you're a member PM the Matt the forum admin and he'll tell you all about it.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

aww you puffer sounds cute, i am thinking on the neon now coz they got colour, my boyfriend got a big tank so would his water be okay he have had it up and running for over a month now coz wont the pet shop have different fish coming in would it affect my fish?


morelia spilota said:


> dont use chemicals they dont work you can leave the fish and to speed the process up go to the shop where you got the fish from and ask them if they have a tank set up and ask them if they can squeese some of the sponges from there filters into a bag of water which they have took from the tank and then when you get home squeese your filter sponges in the water and then put them back in your filter and see also if they could give you some bags of matured water either from their system or a tank of their own
> 
> the puffer will adventually eat the shrimps sorri, it may take a while for them all to dissapear but it will happen, i think the wild neon guppies would be nice you could have at least ten of them because their so small, but the puffers would look good also i had one in a big tank with a bunch of cichlids and it was great it just floated around the tank peacfully until it came to feeding it lol


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i will be getting the paper test strips coz me and my boyfriend got a tank each now so save us taking the water to the shop well test it at home.


MJ75 said:


> Thats a very sweeping statement.....
> 
> Many products including the one I mentioned do definately work. If the OP is to buy an ammonia and nitrite test kit (Something I'd definately recomend) she'll even be able to plot a graph with daily testing and see the filter cycle, thus proving they work.
> 
> I wonder if your info comes from a PFK article were it was found that one well known liquid maturing agent that had been on sale for years was found to contain the wrong bacteria and thus be ineffective? If so, it's now been changed. You can read all about it PFK's forum. If you're a member PM the Matt the forum admin and he'll tell you all about it.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> I wonder if your info comes from a PFK article


 yer thats what put me off the chemical route, and for me it just seems totally unnessacery becuase if you keep fish it is enevitable that the filter is going to be dealing with fish crap so why not just introduce it right from the start, and how can a filter become matured to deal with fish crap when it has never been introduced to it, and whats the problem with doing it the good old fashioned way? 

(just my oppinion)


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

morelia spilota said:


> yer thats what put me off the chemical route, and for me it just seems totally unnessacery becuase if you keep fish it is enevitable that the filter is going to be dealing with fish crap so why not just introduce it right from the start, and how can a filter become matured to deal with fish crap when it has never been introduced to it, and whats the problem with doing it the good old fashioned way?
> 
> (just my oppinion)


i dont care about the fish i got in my tank they my boyfriends not mine 




only messing i think ill do it the fish way i got them now and they will go though stress even if i leave them or take them to my boyfriend tank when i only got them, will the water from my boyfriend tank be okay. he got 20 fish in there now and its be running for over a month he have had his water checked by the shop.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> i will be getting the paper test strips coz me and my boyfriend got a tank each now so save us taking the water to the shop well test it at home.


 im sorri but their not accurate, you should get the same test kits that the shop use their not that expensive you just add a few drops of the chemicals to the water in a vile and hey presto, it comes with a chart also to tell you weather its wright or not 

i worked in an aquatics shop for four years and we tested the strips on our water and then used the chemical test and the strips said it was acidic and the chemical test said it was spot on and we tried them on customers water tests too and had the same results


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> yer thats what put me off the chemical route, and for me it just seems totally unnessacery becuase if you keep fish it is enevitable that the filter is going to be dealing with fish crap so why not just introduce it right from the start, and how can a filter become matured to deal with fish crap when it has never been introduced to it, and whats the problem with doing it the good old fashioned way?
> 
> (just my oppinion)


The culture contains both the bacteria and food for them to multiply and colonise the filter. They do work (I've recorded many fresh and saltwater tank cycles using them). And you don't lose fish due to new tank syndrome etc.

Mature media from an existing tank is the best way, assuming you're not introducing it from a tank with disease etc.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

morelia spilota said:


> im sorri but their not accurate, you should get the same test kits that the shop use their not that expensive you just add a few drops of the chemicals to the water in a vile and hey presto, it comes with a chart also to tell you weather its wright or not
> 
> i worked in an aquatics shop for four years and we tested the strips on our water and then used the chemical test and the strips said it was acidic and the chemical test said it was spot on and we tried them on customers water tests too and had the same results


what test kit is that do u have a picture that would help me coz to many names im getting confused.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> i dont care about the fish i got in my tank they my boyfriends not mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you don't give a toss about the animals in your care why bother asking for advice in the first place?


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> i dont care about the fish i got in my tank they my boyfriends not mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 if he has 20 fish in and their all doing well then i think his tank has more than likely cycled although that is a bit fast but, like i said if he has 20 in and their all ok it must of done, what size is the tank? and what fish has he got init?


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> If you don't give a toss about the animals in your care why bother asking for advice in the first place?


if u see i was joking they going to my boyfriend coz they will get to big for my tank, im asking for help and im getting it.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

morelia spilota said:


> if he has 20 fish in and their all doing well then i think his tank has more than likely cycled although that is a bit fast but, like i said if he has 20 in and their all ok it must of done, what size is the tank? and what fish has he got init?



his tank is a 125 jewl tank i think, he started off with 5 danios to start the tank off the pet shop sed they may be dead ones coz the stress and stuff in the water they was in there for over 2 weeks then he got 5 rumbnoses or somthing and they was in there a week we went to pet shop to have water test and it was correct so he picked up 8 wild neon and 2 sucker fish (they more fat in the face) and no dead fish and he did add a bit of salt in the begging coz his friend sed so and the fish stop panicing this was at the begging. and they all swimming nice and calm and are eatting.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

also what are the male guppies they are orange and black not big fan tails they tiny. anyideas?


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Hi
Water from another tank will have very little effect on the cycling process, unless its directly from the filter media. Even then it will be minimal.

Cycling a filter can take anywhere from 6-12 weeks. The only way to establish where your boyfriends tank is at, is to test the water for Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte.

There is a section on cycling on my webbie in siggie.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> what test kit is that do u have a picture that would help me coz to many names im getting confused.


 http://s3.amazonaws.com/tc-photos/11442/product/standard/502174.jpg
here you go you will need to get another one to test your nitrites which is the main thing to keep an eye on in a tank that is cycling, the same company do one to test the nitrites


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

andy007 said:


> Hi
> Water from another tank will have very little effect on the cycling process, unless its directly from the filter media. Even then it will be minimal.
> 
> Cycling a filter can take anywhere from 6-12 weeks. The only way to establish where your boyfriends tank is at, is to test the water for Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte.
> ...


he was shocked that the tank was set-up sooo fast but we did take water to the shop to test and they sed its fine, we will be getting stuff for both the tanks now.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

morelia spilota said:


> http://s3.amazonaws.com/tc-photos/11442/product/standard/502174.jpg
> here you go you will need to get another one to test your nitrites which is the main thing to keep an eye on in a tank that is cycling, the same company do one to test the nitrites



okay thank ill show my boyfriend all this and he should know thank you.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

zoe6660 said:


> he was shocked that the tank was set-up sooo fast but we did take water to the shop to test and they sed its fine, we will be getting stuff for both the tanks now.


I wouldn't believe what some shops will tell you. If you get them to test it again, make sure they show you the results for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte. Some places will say its ok because then they can sell you fish:devil:

The best thing, is to get your own test kits. The Api liquid test kits are good.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

andy007 said:


> I wouldn't believe what some shops will tell you. If you get them to test it again, make sure they show you the results for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte. Some places will say its ok because then they can sell you fish:devil:
> 
> The best thing, is to get your own test kits. The Api liquid test kits are good.


okay, i will be getting that next.



thanks for all the help people.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> if u see i was joking they going to my boyfriend coz they will get to big for my tank, im asking for help and im getting it.


Sorry Zoe. I see many people not bothering cycling their tank properly or ethically. It really winds me up. I should have paid more attention to your post.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

i wouldnt bother testing you nitrates just test your ph and your nitrites


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

andy007 said:


> Hi
> Water from another tank will have very little effect on the cycling process, unless its directly from the filter media. Even then it will be minimal.


 i was saying she should get some water directly from the filter media and then get a couple of bags of water from the tank


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

morelia spilota said:


> i wouldnt bother testing you nitrates just test your ph and your nitrites


Why test for ph?

The likelihood is that the tank is packed with ammonia due to it being so new. High NitrAtes can be damaging too.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> i wouldnt bother testing you nitrates just test your ph and your nitrites


If you don't know what your nitrate levels are how can you determine how well your filter is coping with your stocking density? How can you accurately gauge your water change requirements? And how can you do basic investigation when their is a problem with your tank?

To be any good at fishkeeping you need to be able to determine ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and ph readings at the drop of a hat soyou can deal with problems. That applies to a tropical freshwater tank. Obviosly marine aquaria need a few more test kits etc...


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

zoe6660 said:


> also what are the male guppies they are orange and black not big fan tails they tiny. anyideas?


 they are endlers wild guppies


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> they are endlers wild guppies


Wild endlers? They're very rare in the hobby! Wild guppies are very rare to. How can you id a fish with no picture? Just curious.....


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> If you don't know what your nitrate levels are how can you determine how well your filter is coping with your stocking density? How can you accurately gauge your water change requirements? And how can you do basic investigation when their is a problem with your tank?
> 
> To be any good at fishkeeping you need to be able to determine ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and ph readings at the drop of a hat soyou can deal with problems. That applies to a tropical freshwater tank. Obviosly marine aquaria need a few more test kits etc...


amonia is the start of the cycle then you get nitrites and then finally nitrates so it stands to reason that if you just test the nitrites and they read correctly, then the rest will be good because the nitrites is where the cycle peaks and then after that it starts to decline
also i have kept marine and tropical tanks and in my marine tank my nitrates where off the charts which is supposedly bad for the fish and corals and all where growing and thriving, i suppose you think skimmers are a must aswell?


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

andy007 said:


> Why test for ph?
> 
> The likelihood is that the tank is packed with ammonia due to it being so new. High NitrAtes can be damaging too.


 because fish crap can make the water go acidic also over feeding too


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> How can you id a fish with no picture? Just curious.....


fiar enough i guess i jumped the gun a bit but i assumed they were adults and thay are the only species of guppy that i have heard people refer to as tiny when adults and also she said they were called wild neon guppy which they are often called, but your right i cant 100% without a picture, do you have one zoe? if not go on google and type in wild endlers guppys and let me know if they are what you where thinking of


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

I think your forgetting that the op has fish in the tank. Its only been set up for a short time so there's probably ammonia which needs keeping in check. Testing purely for nitrItes is just ignoring the ammonia, and subjecting the fish to toxins. It can take weeks and weeks for the filter to produce the bacteria needed to convert ammonia to nitrIte, and then even longer to convert to nitrAte.

Every aquarium keeper should have the basic kits, and use them regularly. Otherwise how do you know if there is a problem?


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Also, if the OP just tests for nitrIte and it comes up zero, does that mean its cycled? Or just that the filter hasn't started converting ammonia yet?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> amonia is the start of the cycle then you get nitrites and then finally nitrates so it stands to reason that if you just test the nitrites and they read correctly, then the rest will be good because the nitrites is where the cycle peaks and then after that it starts to decline
> also i have kept marine and tropical tanks and in my marine tank my nitrates where off the charts which is supposedly bad for the fish and corals and all where growing and thriving, i suppose you think skimmers are a must aswell?


 Hi

I'm fully aware of how the cycle works, your post is very bad advice for new fishkeepers though I'm afraid. Nitrite (NO2) breaks down into nitrate (NO3). Ordinarily the levels of nitrate then increase over time and are diluted by regular water changes. This is the primary reason why we do water changes after all.

If you takr your advice and keep fish in levels of nitrate that are "off the charts" then the fish will be more susceptible to stress, disease, they probably won't exhibit normal behaviour and the chances of any breeding attempts will be lessened. You should understand that many species of popular aquarium fish can live many years, people keeping fish as you appear to do won't have them live to their full life expectancy. In fact I'd compare your advise directly to a doctor saying you can smoke 40 **** a day, drink 8 cans of special brew per day and eat a full english breakfast and still live..... 

I've kept marine tanks without skimmers. When I first started keeping marines hardly any fishkeepers even knew what a protein skimmer was. So you can keep them without one. But.... why you would keep a reef tank wthout one is beyond me. They do so much good you'd be foolish to not to. Any reef keeping "expert" would see a skimmer as de rigeur in this day and age.

The shop you used to work at... Was it Pets at Home by any chance?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> fiar enough i guess i jumped the gun a bit but i assumed they were adults and thay are the only species of guppy that i have heard people refer to as tiny when adults and also she said they were called wild neon guppy which they are often called, but your right i cant 100% without a picture, do you have one zoe? if not go on google and type in wild endlers guppys and let me know if they are what you where thinking of


 
Just curious... Have you ever seen a wild caught guppy? Or a wild caught endler? Do you know how rare they are in LFS? Are you aware that many forms of endler sold in the aquatics trade are actualy hybrids? 

The term "wild neon guppy" means nothing. Do you know importers make up names like this so they were more "saleable" to LFS. 

If I say the term "Leopard catfish", what does that mean to you? And how should one be cared for?


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm fully aware of how the cycle works, your post is very bad advice for new fishkeepers though I'm afraid. Nitrite (NO2) breaks down into nitrate (NO3). Ordinarily the levels of nitrate then increase over time and are diluted by regular water changes. This is the primary reason why we do water changes after all.


well im sure the shop would be able to tell her to do water changes, and im sure she already knows this as it is a basi think to know in fish keeping, and also i dont think she is upto the stage where she needs to be ing water changes yet



MJ75 said:


> If you take your advice and keep fish in levels of nitrate that are "off the charts" then the fish will be more susceptible to stress, disease, they probably won't exhibit normal behaviour and the chances of any breeding attempts will be lessened. You should understand that many species of popular aquarium fish can live many years, people keeping fish as you appear to do won't have them live to their full life expectancy. In fact I'd compare your advise directly to a doctor saying you can smoke 40 **** a day, drink 8 cans of special brew per day and eat a full english breakfast and still live.....


they did exhibit normal behaviour and also bred, and so did the corals, and they also lived for a long lenght of time i understant how log fish can live for 


MJ75 said:


> I've kept marine tanks without skimmers. When I first started keeping marines hardly any fishkeepers even knew what a protein skimmer was. So you can keep them without one. But.... why you would keep a reef tank wthout one is beyond me. They do so much good you'd be foolish to not to. Any reef keeping "expert" would see a skimmer as de rigeur in this day and age.


it would not be foolish as thecorals actualy filter a smaal amout from the water so they actually do better without a skimmer i have first hand experience of this, i suppose reef experts would also say to use osinisers and RO water?


MJ75 said:


> The shop you used to work at... Was it Pets at Home by any chance?


 no it wasnt it was a very respectable sho called walker aquatics and every one who asked for advice came back with posotive feed back 

p.s im sorri i wasnt meaning it to sound like my way is the only way to do it, but why cant you accept that there are more good ways to keep fish, than the way you do it?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> well im sure the shop would be able to tell her to do water changes, and im sure she already knows this as it is a basi think to know in fish keeping, and also i dont think she is upto the stage where she needs to be ing water changes yet


 
I was referring to your advice. Not to the advice she may or may not receive from her LFS. You state that you keep your fish in levels of nitrate that are considered dangerously high. Though you don’t state what level this actually is. In your opinion what is too high a level of NO3 for fishkeeping?




morelia spilota said:


> they did exhibit normal behaviour and also bred, and so did the corals, and they also lived for a long lenght of time i understant how log fish can live for




Good. Few people do. Though from the info you’ve provided I’m very sceptical. After all the most commonly kept pet fish has been known to live to 43 years. 




morelia spilota said:


> it would not be foolish as thecorals actualy filter a smaal amout from the water so they actually do better without a skimmer i have first hand experience of this, i suppose reef experts would also say to use osinisers and RO water?




Indeed I don’t believe there is a single renowned expert who would suggest not using a skimmer. It seems your “chuck it and chance it method” goes against everything proven by renowned experts. Perhaps you should write a book and detail the advantages of not using RO and skimmers? I’ve kept reefs for a very long time and so have tried both. It’s obvious to me what benefits a skimmer and RO offer, so I’d never stop, unless I had access to water straight from the reef. But that’s a little hard to come by here in Derbyshire!



morelia spilota said:


> p.s im sorri i wasnt meaning it to sound like my way is the only way to do it, but why cant you accept that there are more good ways to keep fish, than the way you do it?




Theres no need to apologise. I think everyone reading this will know damned well that your way isn’t the only way. Lol Your statement is flawed though. After all if you keep fish you need (Despite what you may think) to have a thorough understanding of the nitrogen cycle and how it works inside an aquariums filtration system. You need to be able to monitor the performance at any time and you need to understand how to get the biological filtration up and running. In short you need to know how to cycle a tank otherwise you will have little success. It’s a very extreme view but it could be argued that if you don’t know how to do this then you really shouldn’t be keeping fish as they are almost certain to suffer neglect. You should read all of the thread on here and the larger fish keeping forums and see how many people lose fish because they don’t understand biological filtration and don’t own the test kits needed to track it’s performance or diagnose problems as and when they occur. But when asked about liquid maturing agents that I’ve used successfully for around three decades you say :-




morelia spilota said:


> *dont use chemicals they dont work* you can leave the fish and to speed the process up go to the shop where you got the fish from and ask them if they have a tank set up and ask them if they can squeese some of the sponges from there filters into a bag of water which they have took from the tank and then when you get home squeese your filter sponges in the water and then put them back in your filter and see also if they could give you some bags of matured water either from their system or a tank of their own





morelia spilota said:


>




They do if you follow the instructions and know what you’re doing! The rest of this quote shows just how little you really know as Andy007 has pointed out, the water will make no real difference, you need mature media not water squeezed from sponges. 

Then when talking about test kits you say …




morelia spilota said:


> im sorri but their not accurate,


 



morelia spilota said:


> i wouldnt bother testing you nitrates


 
Followed by….



morelia spilota said:


> also i have kept marine and tropical tanks and in my marine tank my nitrates where off the charts which is supposedly bad for the fish




Supposedly? There is nothing supposedly about it. They are!

You then contradict yourself completely by saying… 




morelia spilota said:


> well im sure the shop would be able to tell her to do water changes, and im sure she already knows this as it is a basi think to know in fish keeping, and also i dont think she is upto the stage where she needs to be ing water changes yet





morelia spilota said:


>




The whole point of doing regular water changes is to reduce your nitrate levels. You accuse me of being dismissive to “other ways”, which is a joke in itself as I have numerous different types of set up at home. I’ve worked in both an LFS and a wholesalers where keeping fish on a commercial basis bares very little resemblance to keeping them in the home aquarium! I’ve also bred discus on a semi commercial scale and so am well aware of how varied different methods can be. Yet if you read your comments above you’re the one being dismissive of proven maturing agents, test kits, protein skimmers and even RO water! I’ve read the postings of aquatic armchair experts before, but have never read such poor advice from someone claiming to be an experienced aquarist. Only from beginners who have misunderstood what they’ve been told or read. Nothing personal, but I won’t be asking you to look after my tanks when I’m away on holiday later!!!


P.S Anyone suffer from insomnia? Read it once more.... You've just found a cure! :whistling2:


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i havnt had time to read everyone post now my boyfriend got a kit yesterday and we teated it but i didnt understand he knew whats worng and he is sortnig it out, but im starting to think i want one mexican orange dwarf crayfish insed of fish im not 100% sure yet.


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## morelia spilota (Mar 21, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> I was referring to your advice. Not to the advice she may or may not receive from her LFS. You state that you keep your fish in levels of nitrate that are considered dangerously high. Though you don’t state what level this actually is. In your opinion what is too high a level of NO3 for fishkeeping?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok fair enough im glad you said how you feel and i have taken a lot of what you said on board, but like i said i have kept many fish succesfully so i will just keep doing what i do, believe me i do know what im doin although it doesnt sound like it, but i do understand that with difficult species it would be wise to keep a wide range of testiing kits, and i know all the information i gave just came out sounding so bad looking back, and im sorri about the way i came across as if my advice was the only advice that mattered, i didnt mean for it to look like that at all, and im sorri i had a go at you i didnt come here to start an arguement


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

morelia spilota said:


> ok fair enough im glad you said how you feel and i have taken a lot of what you said on board, but like i said i have kept many fish succesfully so i will just keep doing what i do, believe me i do know what im doin although it doesnt sound like it, but i do understand that with difficult species it would be wise to keep a wide range of testiing kits, and i know all the information i gave just came out sounding so bad looking back, and im sorri about the way i came across as if my advice was the only advice that mattered, i didnt mean for it to look like that at all, and im sorri i had a go at you i didnt come here to start an arguement


My post comes across very wrong too. It looks like I'm shouting. It was written more for beginners who may read it rather than you. I believe all beginners should own an ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH test kit at the very least. All should cycle there tank without fish and use these test kits to plot the cycle over a few weeks. If they did, then they would understand what goes on in their tank and would be able to diagnose problems very quickly. In fact a third of these threads in this forum probably wouldn't even exist if newbies did their homework properly. LFS really should do more to educate their customers.


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i got the kit where u can test for all types now.


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