# Atopica v steroids



## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

One of my rotts has severe allergies. He is allergic to grass, wheat, chicken, beef, possibly turkey and now it would appear lamb too. I had him on the raw meaty bone diet. I ended up having to exclude so much as it became apparent he was reacting to the different meats/bones. Lamb appeared to be safe but he has again started reacting. He licks his front paws raw. He get severe irritation in his ears which sometimes leads to problems with one of his eyes. His paws flared up to point he was hobbling. All the usual things didn't work so I put a buster collar on him. He then started rubbing his chin and the collar set his ears off again. I took the collar of last night to feed him and seconds later he had his whole back paw in his mouth really chewing on it. He very rarely touches his back paws. Even when he does, it is really no more than you would expect if he was just cleaning them. That was the last straw for me. Decided to ditch the raw meat and bones for him, he has so much excluded it is no longer balanced anyway. I have decided to put him on a fish and rice complete. He hasn't reacted to fish so far so fingers crossed. I vowed never put my dogs back on commercial dog food but no choice really. Took him to the vets today he was given a huge steroid injection which should last 2 weeks. He has to go back and vet is looking to put him either on steroids or Atopica. Now back to my question. 

Atopica v steroids??

Does anyone have good/bad experiences of these. I know steroids are really bad long term but how long is long term? Also anyone have any idea what the price difference is? I gather Atopica is really expensive but if there is a huge difference then I will happily pay it. Rough prices, found on net, suggest they could cost me about £10 per day from vets.


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## Frogmad (Nov 10, 2008)

hey

Has he seen a dermatology specialist?
has your dog had allergy testing? 
and had a proper exclusion diet based on hydrolysed proteins? (for example using royal canin hypoallergenic/hills z/d or purina ha)
personally i hate using steroids in my animals unless necessary, you can't tell how quickly an animal is going to react to them, so long term for one animal could not be the same as long term for another animal.
have you considered an immunotherapy vaccine specially made for him?

Atopica is very expensive but is classed as slightly safer than long term steroids.

I would say if you haven't been but can afford to go, i would go to a specialist. I would also perform a true 12 week food trial with a specialist diet


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Frogmad said:


> hey
> 
> Has he seen a dermatology specialist?
> No. Was going to go down that road but was told they wouldn't be able to give me a specific list eg they couldn't say "he is allergic to beef"
> ...


 
He was a rescue dog. I've had him nearly 3 years. He didn't have a good previous life so gets stressed easily so I just want this sorted for him so he can enjoy life without these hurdles all the time.


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

Drat I just wrote a like 4 page essay in response to your post as I was overly impressed with your vet's statement that a specialist wouldn't be able to tell you what your dog is allergic to, then lost it!! Grrrr. In essence I agreed with nearly everything Frogmad said, especially seeing the specialist bit. Your vet does not seem to have given you the best advice, or if he/she has, not in a way that has made sense to you. Your dog needs a proper work up.

Steriods v atopica - atopica is good drug, although expensive, although not without side effects. These tend to immediate rather than long term. Steriods, especially if you can use a low dose, are not as bad as people think long term - but there are alternatives that can be explored -IF YOU HAVE A PROPER WORKUP! It is frustrating when vets don't work things up fully, especially for a client who seems willing to pay!


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

vetdebbie said:


> Drat I just wrote a like 4 page essay in response to your post as I was overly impressed with your vet's statement that a specialist wouldn't be able to tell you what your dog is allergic to, then lost it!! Grrrr. In essence I agreed with nearly everything Frogmad said, especially seeing the specialist bit. Your vet does not seem to have given you the best advice, or if he/she has, not in a way that has made sense to you. Your dog needs a proper work up.
> 
> Steriods v atopica - atopica is good drug, although expensive, although not without side effects. These tend to immediate rather than long term. Steriods, especially if you can use a low dose, are not as bad as people think long term - but there are alternatives that can be explored -IF YOU HAVE A PROPER WORKUP! It is frustrating when vets don't work things up fully, especially for a client who seems willing to pay!


 
It wasn't my vet that said it. It was someone else that had tests done. They said it wouldn't be able to tell me specific things ie chicken, beef.

When he goes back I will say to about getting tests done.


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

My boxer is allergic to grass, tree and weed pollen plus dust and storage mites. Had all of the tests done. She's currently on steroids and has been for the last 2 months or so. Her itching has definately decreased but as you said, it's not a long term solution. She has 'bulked out' since being on them, she had such a nice slender body which I'm hoping will return once off steriods. I'm currently waiting for a monthly vaccine to be made up for her.

I currently pay around £6.50 every other week for steriods (4 tablets - she has to have half a tablet every other day - this has been reduced, she was on half a tablet a day) and although she does scratch slightly more on the lower dose, there's still a huge difference from when she was on none  

Not sure whether this helps at all


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

This give me hope. Can I ask what was involved with the testing? Did you get referred to a specialist or did vet do the testing? 

Mine doesn't get itchy skin as such. Mostly it affects his ears, which affects his eyes if I don't catch it quick enough. Other times he chews his feet to the point he is hobbling. If I put a collar on him, to stop him chewing his paws, the collar sets off his ears and round and round we go. I hate taking him near the vets as he stresses at other people getting in his space so have been doing as much as I could myself. It has now got to the point only a vet can help. He has had loads of outbreaks one after the other for months now. Normally I can work out what has set it off but the latest one has me baffled. I really hope I can get a list of triggers. He is such a happy boy most of the time
This is Josie barker and Maxie man(right)










boabloketony said:


> My boxer is allergic to grass, tree and weed pollen plus dust and storage mites. Had all of the tests done. She's currently on steroids and has been for the last 2 months or so. Her itching has definately decreased but as you said, it's not a long term solution. She has 'bulked out' since being on them, she had such a nice slender body which I'm hoping will return once off steriods. I'm currently waiting for a monthly vaccine to be made up for her.
> 
> I currently pay around £6.50 every other week for steriods (4 tablets - she has to have half a tablet every other day - this has been reduced, she was on half a tablet a day) and although she does scratch slightly more on the lower dose, there's still a huge difference from when she was on none
> 
> Not sure whether this helps at all


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

All of the allergy tests were done at the vets, the results take a few weeks though. She had some blood taken and a skin scrape. I'm not 100% sure of what they did. I just know that they split the sample into many pannels and tested for a variety of things. The vet rang and told me the results over the phone and we discussed our options. I opted for a vaccine. They're currently making the vaccine (the vaccine is not made at the vet surgery, the vet is actually waiting for the vaccine to be made - not sure who's making it though, he sorted it all out for me) My vaccine is quite costly and she needs to be injected once a week for the first 4 weeks (all must be done at the vets incase of any side effects) and then I'm injecting her at home once a month for life. 

Unfortunately I took her to the vets for the initial tests before my pet insurance kicked in (not sure if you have insurance but the dog is only covered for injury within the first two weeks, after that it's injury and illness) so unfortunately I'm having to pay for all treatment myself, which is difficult. So I'd definately look into getting insurance if he's not already been treated at the vets or you'll end up in the same situation as me.

I wish your boy all the luck in the world, both dogs are gorgeous by the way !!!  Pics of my girl are in my photo album on my profile if you fancy having a look lol


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Unfortunately I fell out with the insurance company, they bumped my insurance for my springer up £200 because he broke a tooth:bash: Would see the point if he was accident prone:whip: I never got round to finding a new company. He will still get whatever treatment he needs just means it comes out of my pocket instead of theirs. 

I am really liking the sound of the vaccine. I will be discussing the tests and vaccine with my vet next week. Hopefully it won't be long before the big man is sorted and leading a normal life. 

You girls looks lovely. I've got a soft spot for nutty boxers: victory:


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## BecciBoo (Aug 31, 2007)

Allergy testing can be done with a simple blood sample sent away to an external lab but I can guarantee that your vet will want to rule out other possibilities also.

Firstly you should apply a parasite treatment every 2 weeks for 3 treatments (I used Stronghold but Advocate can also be used), routinely at this point we also do skin scrapes and hair plucks. All this is to rule out sarcoptes, demodex, cheylettiella, fleas etc.

Secondly a food trial should be done. This is difficult and you have to keep to a strict feeding routine for six weeks. The dogs need to be fed a diet that consists of protein molecules that they haven't really come across before. Hills z/d, hills d/d, royal canine sensitivity etc or the vet can suggest a home cooked diet. I finally use James Welbeloved Lamb and Rice but started with royal canine and also used D/D for a while. This has to be fed for 6 weeks exclusively, the dog isn't allowed anything else. Then after the 6 weeks you return to your normal diet and see if any difference.

You can also have a blood test done at your normal vets to check for types of allergies. There are TWO tests, one for environmental allergies and another for food allergies. These are sent to external labs and they come back saying exactly what the dog is reactive too...even down to the type of grass. Then 'vaccines' can be made up to build up the dogs natural immunity to these things.

Other things you can do:
Treat any infection in the skin. If the dog has been chewing and scratching for a long time then it is possible that there will be a secondary infection in the skin. Putting the dog on a good skin antibiotic will take away any infection. (We needed a 3 week supply)

Short term steriods. Putting any animal on steriods long term is not a good thing. But they can be used short term to relieve the dog and break the cycle. I gave 4 days worth at the start of the antibiotics.

Relieve the itching. Veterinary Shampoos. I use a malasab shampoo once a week.

Build up the skins natural oils - Its done with a oil based food supplement that is put on the food.

Atopica - its a wonder drug and fantastic but expensive. The side effect is it can cause pancreatitis in some dogs, but its usually at the start of using the drug and your vet should advise you on the warning signs so the drug can be stopped and the damage be reversed. Obviously it is expensive (we charge about £80 a box)

My dog has atopic dermatitis and I manage it with a diet (James Welbeloved), Malaseb Shampoo once a week and a monthly spot on of advocate.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Certainly more to think about. His skin is ok. It is his feet and ears that break out but will speak to my vet on Wednesday.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Thought it was time I updated. I waited to see how he got on with his meds first.

Max was put on 4mg Medrone V twice a day. These were then to be cut at intervals until, if all went well, he was down to 1/2 tablet every second day. At the moment he is down to 1/2 tablet once a day. With his allergies all is going well between the tablets and changing his food onto salmon and rice complete meal. 

And in true life fashion. Just as the allergies are sorted I found a lump the size of a marble on his leg. Again in true life fashion it was Saturday night I found and vets were closed until Tuesday. After a nightmare wait until yesterday he was booked in for op to remove it today. Turns out it was a cancer tumour. Good news is they "think" that should be the end of it. Luckily Max hates his feet and legs being touched(he was previously abused) so I do a lot of clicker training aimed round me touching bits he takes exception to being touched. If I didn't do this I wouldn't have known it was there until it was probably too late. Even after finding it I couldn't see it just by looking at his leg. Anyway was just going to say check over your dogs periodically you never know what could be lurking.


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