# stick insects inbreeding?????



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

im just getting my 1st lot of black beauty eggs, but just wondering if the babies when they hatch if they do lol will be ok 2 breed with each other. 

does inbreedin stick insects have the same effect as if u were 2 inbreed rodents???

sorry if this is a silly question but i just dont know lol

advise please thanx


----------



## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

i think they just develop an unhealthy obsession with mullets, guns, contry and western music and the confederate flag


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

i hate western music, better use them all for lizard food b4 they get outta hand :devil:


----------



## kamakazecat (Jun 8, 2008)

spend_day said:


> i think they just develop an unhealthy obsession with mullets, guns, contry and western music and the confederate flag


 
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW!!!! i dang gon' fell off ma twig! a-hyuck!


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

so is there any sane people out there that do know the answer 2 my question :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

arent alot of stick insects hermaphrodites anyway? i really dont think it will be a problem though if anyone knows any better id be interested to know too


----------



## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Found this for you on San Diego Zoos website


> One of the most interesting things about stick insects is their ability to reproduce parthenogenetically. This is a form of asexual reproduction where the unfertilized females produce eggs that hatch into females. If a male fertilizes the egg, it has a fifty-fifty chance of turning out male. If no males are around, the line continues with females only. At the San Diego Zoo, we have had a group of female-only leaf insects for several years now!


If they can fertilize themselves - well you can't get more inbred than that.


----------



## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

Evie said:


> If they can fertilize themselves - well you can't get more inbred than that.


This particular stick insect needs to breed in order to reproduce.

Been wondering this myself, my Schultei are now s/a and so will hopefully start breeding soon.

I remember years ago my sister had Neon Tetras and they bred and bred and bred and bred and she did end up with deformed ones, presumably from all the inbreeding.


----------



## Dirtydozen (Feb 7, 2007)

thanx 4 the replies (bar u crazi foak lol) so i suppose i better get some new ones 2 put the babies 2.

i remember at primary school they had indian sticks as pets in the year 6 class they had the same insects breeding with each other til i left lol i remember when i finally went into year 6 most of them had funny bums n died.

oh god im on jonnys never mind

jen x


----------



## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

1 of mine just died, i only have 1 left now =[


----------



## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

From what i know inbreeding is not a real problem with inverts.


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> From what i know inbreeding is not a real problem with inverts.


tar :2thumb:

anyone else any thoughts as its a bit split at the mo so i still dont know what 2 think???

googled it but got nothing interesting


----------



## InternetReptile (Aug 2, 2008)

With this species there shouldn't be a problem with inbreeding.

There have been problems with some other species, e.g. extatosoma.tiaratum where weakness and/or sudden death syndrome in nymphs has been associated with excessive inbreeding.


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

GeckoMorphs said:


> With this species there shouldn't be a problem with inbreeding.
> 
> There have been problems with some other species, e.g. extatosoma.tiaratum where weakness and/or sudden death syndrome in nymphs has been associated with excessive inbreeding.


ok thanx u very much, so the babies will be ok to breed 2gave as i just have them in a large exo so its up 2 them what they want 2 do


----------



## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

Some species, P Macklotti for example, are susceptible to inbreeding. My first batch of P Schultei have just started laying so I got batch of eggs from another source so both lots of eggs should mature at around the same time thus introducing a new line.
It's not unusual for Indians to be bent out of shape but they are parthagenic.
Got a couple of adult/sub adult P Schultei males spare if anyone is interested for the cost of P&P...just drop me a PM.


----------



## jas1972 (Sep 27, 2008)

Havent seen any probs with mine yet and im on my fourth generation so i think they are ok!
i try and introduce some fresh brood stock as and when but in the wild they dont fly so wont go to far away from the food source,so i think that inbreeding would happen in the wild also.
As others have said it is a REAL problem with ET,s at the moment so try and source eggs/nymphs from different places.Ive got some coming from abroad to try and improve my breeding stock:2thumb:


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

ok mine should be ok then:2thumb:

what would be the effects/signs of inbreedin with the black beauties (if inbreedin affects them) or would they just die sooner?


----------



## Taz Devil (May 20, 2008)

The problem with breeding from the same parentage is that they tend to get weaker as they go down the genealogy tree. The more sticks bred from the same family will eventually weaken leading to more deaths when born and shorter lives.

This is more apparent in sexually bred sticks than parthenogenic sticks which lay fertile eggs if no males are present to keep up the species.

It's always a good idea to introduce fresh blood if you are going to be an avid breeder. Every 3rd generation introduce either a new female or a new male just to get some new blood into the culture.


----------



## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

Seeing as we are on the subject of P Schultei I thought I'd show this pic of a newly adult male, he's about an inch and a half long. The rear end fans out to a straight edge whereas females are much larger and their rears are rounded.
I think a couple of the males I was giving away for P&P have been spoken for but I still have a couple more if anyone is interested. I'm guessing P&P will be £1.45.


----------



## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

Me again, I was just looking back at the pic and noticed the mouth. Is that some gob or what? :lol2:


----------



## Taz Devil (May 20, 2008)

Slinkies mum said:


> I think a couple of the males I was giving away for P&P have been spoken for but I still have a couple more if anyone is interested. I'm guessing P&P will be £1.45.


You send them first class and not next day special???

All sticks I have sent are sent via royal mails special next day delivery which costs about £5 for guaranteed next day delivery. I've had sticks held up in the post for over a week sending via 1st class. and there's no compensation if sticks arrive dead due to late delivery. Also you can state what the contents are E.g. *Live Insects Handle With Care*.

It was like pulling teeth trying to get Royal Mail to verify if Phasmids were allowed into the postal system.


----------



## Hellbreather (Feb 22, 2009)

They are, since thats how my first lot of Phasmids got delivered to me, although when the clerk at the office gave them to me, he had a look of terror on his face when I went to open it just to make sure they were still alive! lol


----------



## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

RMSD is best but I always pack them with a twig of leaves in a secured little resvoir of water that keeps them fresh for a good few days.
The problem I've found with RMSD is that if they do arrive late and nobody is there to take them in they go back to the sorting office. I have had this happen twice, once with a package of beetles and they were milling around in the post for 10 days. OK so you get compensation but the poor wee guys are still dead.
Really it's up to the buyer, but believe me RMSD is not all it's cracked up to be.


----------



## Taz Devil (May 20, 2008)

Must admit, most of the mailings I have done have been to business addresses where people work. I usually have any live stock delivered to my work address since the cock up with my first lot of EC's. I'm here from 8:30am till 5:30pm so have a %99.9 delivery success rate if posted Monday - Thursday.


----------



## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

They went RMSD this afternoon. Must agree tho you do get funny looks when they realise whats in the box.


----------



## Taz Devil (May 20, 2008)

I had to lock mine in the works secure room because of the telesales and call centre staff freaking out when I received my EC's.


----------

