# My Gouramis :(



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

2 of my trio gouramis have died anddont now why? can any one suggest why, soory about lack of imfo, but ill awser any questions.


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

Sorry to hear that. What gouramis were they are how big is the tank? What other fish are in the tank and do you know your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate stats?


----------



## Kenorsanc (Dec 10, 2006)

If they are Dwarf Gouramis then they may have died from gourami virus heres a link for more infomation http://http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1139


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

Dwarfs do seem pretty weak ATM in general. When I first started fishkeeping and overstocked, I had 2 golden and 2 monnlights and the goldens were bullied to death by the otherwise peaceful moonlights. Knowing what they are, is there only one species and tank size will help


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Gold and Blue Gourami got a blue left, trio. i have 7 tetras, couple haloshsgdh, small fish any way soz SP dunt have a clue, krebince, snail, rainbow shark, silver sharkx2,silver dollax2, pimpitcus,pingasiuss,khuli and panther loachx3 all togethre!


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

Like I said, my golden gouramis were bullied to death by the moonlights so that could be it. You do seem to have a lot of fish there - silver dollars and silver sharks need big tanks (the latter grow to a foot or more), kribs, if in breeding pairs, can get aggressive when spawning. rainbow sharks are hostile and territorial. I think you may have some big aggression issues going on - sorry

How big is the tank and what are the water stats? How often do you do a water change and how much?


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

RachelS said:


> Like I said, my golden gouramis were bullied to death by the moonlights so that could be it. You do seem to have a lot of fish there - silver dollars and silver sharks need big tanks (the latter grow to a foot or more), kribs, if in breeding pairs, can get aggressive when spawning. rainbow sharks are hostile and territorial. I think you may have some big aggression issues going on - sorry
> 
> How big is the tank and what are the water stats? How often do you do a water change and how much?


my gold gouramis wernt builied, i know that..my dollars and sharks arn't to big yet, so depending on when they out grow my tank ill either sell or upgrade tank.krebince is on its own, and can i say his colours a GREAT, just come out this month.rainbow are rubbing aech other, told this is agression, but they kinda have there own part of the tank now, which they stay in, unless there with each other, oh yeh got guppys and FAT BELLY danios that cahse each other, wounder if ther mating, have big bellys. and oh yeh keyhole cichlid and severums. cant belive i forgot them. and before you aske kehole keeps him self to himself and swimms around the rocks and plants, and the severums are kinda aggresive to each other but would touch the Harlaques(sp wrong but tiny fish harlaque maybe) and same as the sharks, ill either upgrade or sell when ther bigger.


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

So in addition to the fish in your earlier post, you also have severums, guppies, rainbows, keyholes, harlequins and danios in there?????? 

If this is for real, you are going to lose loads more fish. You have also not yet said the size of the tank and water stats which are vital


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

3ftx18insx15ins only now temp at the mo, also used to clean the wter out every 2weeks took 1/3 out then re-filled untill some one said no. and change filter wool.


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

glad it's temporary. The fish need to be rehoused asap and probably split between 4 tanks or more or returned to the LFS. i'd be looking at a tank of 200L or so for the severum (I have one in a 260L with rainbows) and 400L for the silver sharks in the end. The rainbow shark may need to go on his own. Then there are the silver dollars and other fish to sort out. It'll cost a bomb to keep them all properly

Your measurements sound like my 180L. Depending on how many you have of each you could keep the rainbows, guppies, harlequins and loaches in there 

Weekly / fortnightly water changes are best but no need to do the whole tank. If it's not overstocked, 25% should be fine. Change / rinse the wool like you do and then rinse the other pads in old tank water when gunked


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

how long will it take for these to reach THERE MAXAMUM length, years?


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

in most cases. yes. However, keeping them in tanks too small for them can lead to growth problems. Plus you will always have the aggression issues and I would be surprised if the nitrate isn't high due to the huge overstocking (may / may not be ammonia and nitrite as well but you'll need to check this with a liquid test kit)

Silver sharks for example, still need a large tank when small. They are skittish and nervy and can injure themselves on decor if not kept appropriately


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

not saying your wrong, but my sharks are not skittish bilive it or not. But to tell you the truth my dollars are unbilivibly skitish. NOTHING bothers my sharks, lol


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

Please don't think that I am getting at you. I'm new on here tonight and don't want to fall out with anyone (I need too much cornsnake advice for that!)

Loads of fishkeepers have overstocked in a first tank. I know I did and lost a lot of my initial fish. It was only when I joined forums and asked and took advice off people with experience that things started to come good. I now moderate on a busy fish forum and see the same thing day in day out. It's up to you what you do with your fish but I'm sure experienced fishkeepers on here who post regularly will agree that it's best that you take immediate action if you don't want to lose more fish

I'd take a few off you but the only tank I have understocked is a 4 inch puffer in a 226L brackish cube tank so they wouldn't last long in there :razz: 

Good luck


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

no i now you aint gettin at me, so you want corn snake help? what do you want to know?


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

snakelover said:


> no i now you aint gettin at me, so you want corn snake help? what do you want to know?


This'll do for starters...


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snakes/18405-cornsnakes-whats-your-humidity.html


----------



## Kenorsanc (Dec 10, 2006)

Your tank is very heavily over stocked dont want to moan to muc so ill just state the facts

A tank your size should have about 163cm of smallish fish (up to 10cm) 

Your tank has got over 400cm of fish 

*Harlequinsx7=35cm*

*Kribensisx1=10cm*

*Rainbow sharkx2=30cm*

*Silver sharkx2=70cm*

*Silver dollarsx2=40cm*

*Pimpictusx1=15cm*

*Pangasius Catfishx1=100cm*

*Panther loachx3=20cm*

*Guppyx4=16cm*

*Daniosx4=20*

*Key hole cichlidx1=12cm*

*Severum cichlidx2=60cm*

*Total=428cm*

oh these are adult sizes which you should always consider when buying a fish not the size you are buying at.
If you want to keep the fish you have then you would need a tank of abut 5x2x2 probaly bigger unless you got rid of the panagsius.


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING I'V SAID!!!
i have been told this, and i have told what i will do!!!


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Kenorsanc said:


> Your tank is very heavily over stocked dont want to moan to muc so ill just state the facts
> 
> A tank your size should have about 163cm of smallish fish (up to 10cm)...


What rule do you go by for this?

I was always told 1 inch per US gallon (I started building my fishkeeping knowledge on an American forum :razz.

I translated this to about 1cm per 1.5 litres, is yours different?


----------



## Kenorsanc (Dec 10, 2006)

Sorry snake lover!!! Intravenous I got my calculations from the PFK website which is pretty good in my opinion don't know the exact formula that they use.


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

However you use the rule, it's only a general (not very accurate) guide. 5 inches of neon tetra is going to pump out a lot less waste than a juvi 5" oscar or plec. It doesn't take into account of dietary habits, height / girth of fish etc

It's OK when stocking with small fish (like Kenorsanc suggested) but of little use with larger fish.

I go off my common sense, research, experience etc and look out for tanks with no ammonia nor nitrite, low nitrate (under 40ppm) maintained at or under this with 25% weekly water changes, little / no aggression, compatible species and correct sexing if needed and fish behaving 'naturally' for their species as evidence of a correctly stocked tank


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

most of my fish ar tiny or little. iv got 5 big fish which are around 4inch the biggest


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Kenorsanc said:


> Sorry snake lover!!! Intravenous I got my calculations from the PFK website which is pretty good in my opinion don't know the exact formula that they use.


Ah, ok. I didn't know they had one? I use thinkfish.co.uk "Community creator" for a general idea of my tank.

But I find the 1 inch per gallon rule, and that the tank should be a minimum of "4x long, 2x wide and 2x tall", where x is the adult length of the largest fish in the tank.

I'm thinking of writing a general tropical fish care/help sheet so having rules (with examples) will help people I think, rather than directing them to a website.


----------



## RachelS (Jan 20, 2007)

Think Fish tend to be overly generous as well - perhaps not as much so as PFK


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

> However you use the rule, it's only a general (not very accurate) guide. 5 inches of neon tetra is going to pump out a lot less waste than a juvi 5" oscar or plec. It doesn't take into account of dietary habits, height / girth of fish etc
> 
> It's OK when stocking with small fish (like Kenorsanc suggested) but of little use with larger fish.


I know, which is why I advise two rules: that one and:



> the tank should be a minimum of "4x long, 2x wide and 2x tall", where x is the adult length of the largest fish in the tank.


I know these rules aren't fool proof and I tend to use my own common sense instead when stocking my tanks but as I said in my previous post I'm planning on writing a tropical fish care/help sheet for complete newbies and I think these two rules are valuable when you're just starting out .



> most of my fish ar tiny or little. iv got 5 big fish which are around 4inch the biggest


You have to consider the adult size of your fish, not their current size. How big will all your fish grow to be?


----------



## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

the length "rule" cant be taken as fish keeping law. You wouldnt keep a 2 inch fish in a 2 inch tank so it needs to used with a bit of common sense.

Generally most smaller tetras, guppies platys etc, should really have a 18inch plus tank.

smaller cichlids (apistogrammas, kribs, essentially, "the community tank" cichlids) need 2foot per pair.

then theres your combination. Kribs not with american cichlids (it can be done, but that doesn't mean it should be, they require different water chemistrys)

Again though, why do you think you can justify keeping a fish in a tank two small for it just because you will deal with the problem when it happens? You wouldn't buy a snake without researching, or at least knowing what it is, so why do it with fish. The whole pangasius thing, it's like you going out and buying a Retic for a 3 foot viv. It aint gonna work. But you wouldn't do that, because you would have researched. Try doing it with your fish, you might actually work out why your gouramis died


----------



## Kenorsanc (Dec 10, 2006)

Anyway back on subject snakelover did you know how old your gouramis were ie did they grow and did you notice any bullying/abnormal behavior in the days running up to their death.


----------

