# first dart tank



## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)

hi everyone im stu 

im on the brink of starting my first planted terrarium and to be honest i cant wait 

ive been on all the sites and read quite a lot of posts and questions on dart terrariums 

ive always had a thing for any type of tank as a centrepiece to a room TO ME ITS BETTER THAN WATCHING ANY TELEVISION 

so far i have my 90cmx45x45 exo terra terrarium which cost me nothing (im in the process of fly proofing it) 

i also have an eheim ecco external filter for powering my water feature and keeping on top of the water quality ( i originally bought it to power my nano reef tank but had to dismantle it )

i also have a father who works for the perspex company and he can get me free sheets of various thicknesses so i plan on making a one piece sealed top and get rid of the mesh top , im just about to order some eggcrate for the false bottom ,and some gorilla filler to spray onto the back to make my feature wall 

i also have a submersible fish tank heater (which im thinking of putting in the eggcrate false bottom to keep the water temp tropical and im thinking it will help with humidity 


RIGHT people i have a few questions ????
1. what type of soil to use? frog safe is a must obviously ( UK BRANDS IF POSSIBLE) OR JUST USE ORCHID BARK?)
2. what order to put my layers of false bottom ? im thinking from the base of tank upwards here people in this order EGGCRATE 10CM DEEP
MESH LAYER BETWEEN (BUT WHAT TYPE)? HELP ME ON THIS ONE 
THEN 10CM OF A RECOMMENDED SOIL IM THINKING ECO EARTH WITH ORCHID BARK SCATTERED OVER THE TOP ?? HOW THICK SOIL TO BARK RATIO?
3. IM THINKING OF BUYING MY PLANTS FROM DARTFROG.CO.UK BROMS AND A FEW CLIMBERS ETC I NEED TO KNOW OF ANYONE WHO HAS DEALT WITH THEM OR EVEN BETTER KNOW ANY OTHER TROPICAL PLANT RETAILERS WHO COURIER?? 
4. I HAVE ONE STRIP LIGHT FITTING I NEED TO KNOW HOW POWERFUL DOES MY UV BULB HAVE TO BE ?? WATTAGE AND U.V POWER PLEASE I PLAN ON GROWING BROMS ETC?? WILL BE PENETRATING 4MM PERSPEX DONT FORGET?
5. THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ON THE TANK SIDE OF THINGS 

WHICH MISTING SYSTEM IS THE BEST ?????? I NEED TO KNOW PROS AND CONS (MISTKING?SUPER RAIN?ANY OTHERS?)

I KNOW I HAVENT ASKED ANY FROG QUESTIONS YET REALLY IM CONCENTRATING ON THE TANK FIRST TO BE HONEST 

EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PIECE OF INFO WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED 

THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS POST AND IL START A TANK THREAD AS SOON AS I START IT BIT BY BIT 
stueyp


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

> 1. what type of soil to use? frog safe is a must obviously ( UK BRANDS IF POSSIBLE) OR JUST USE ORCHID BARK?)



I use eco earth orchid bark and leaf mulch HOWEVER going to be ditching the eco earth in the future has it retains to much water.




> 2. what order to put my layers of false bottom ? im thinking from the base of tank upwards here people in this order EGGCRATE 10CM DEEP
> MESH LAYER BETWEEN (BUT WHAT TYPE)? HELP ME ON THIS ONE
> THEN 10CM OF A RECOMMENDED SOIL IM THINKING ECO EARTH WITH ORCHID BARK SCATTERED OVER THE TOP ?? HOW THICK SOIL TO BARK RATIO?


10cm sounds huge, but if you need a certain depth for your filter to work you may need it.

To keep substrate out I use an old net curtain.



> 3. IM THINKING OF BUYING MY PLANTS FROM DARTFROG.CO.UK BROMS AND A FEW CLIMBERS ETC I NEED TO KNOW OF ANYONE WHO HAS DEALT WITH THEM OR EVEN BETTER KNOW ANY OTHER TROPICAL PLANT RETAILERS WHO COURIER??


Everyone use dartfrog. There are other suppliers with rarer and a wider range of plants but they tend to be based on holland/germany. So shipping is more expensive/




> . I HAVE ONE STRIP LIGHT FITTING I NEED TO KNOW HOW POWERFUL DOES MY UV BULB HAVE TO BE ?? WATTAGE AND U.V POWER PLEASE I PLAN ON GROWING BROMS ETC?? WILL BE PENETRATING 4MM PERSPEX DONT FORGET?


What is the strip light? Your viv is quite high so will need powerful lights. I use twin T5 strips and my viv is 40cm. What's your budget for lighting?

UV won't penetrate most types of acrylic, it won't really effect plant growth really.



> 5. THIS IS MY MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ON THE TANK SIDE OF THINGS
> 
> WHICH MISTING SYSTEM IS THE BEST ?????? I NEED TO KNOW PROS AND CONS (MISTKING?SUPER RAIN?ANY OTHERS?)


Mistking get good reviews, ENT get good reviews, I use the one from dartfrog. Don't get super rain, noisey and once the metal nozzles clog up they're finished.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

:welcome: to rfuk


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MP reptiles said:


> :welcome: to rfuk


 Ditto. And Morgan has pretty much summed it up. To reinforce his plant advice (and trust me, he *IS* the Plantmeister), UV doesn't have much effect on plants, they respond better to the red end of the spectrum- which is why, historically, growers have had more luck with Grolux-type tubes or even ordinary tungsten bulbs. Perspex and (especially) glass block out a lot of the useful light- it might be worth keeping the back panal mesh and just replacing the front- or even just covering the front panel with a sheet of either cut to fit- works for me!


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Everyone use dartfrog. There are other suppliers with rarer and a wider range of plants but they tend to be based on holland/germany. So shipping is more expensive


I'd disagree with this part (only).

I've found Dartfrog plants to be very hit and miss in terms of quality and size with more arriving in pretty poor condition than good condition in all honesty, as well as excrutiatingly long turn around times - Try a company called Dutch Rana, great selection of plants, excellent quality, actual plants not just rooted cuttings or offsets and also deliver as quick as DF or quicker (and they are based in Holland!)


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

On the flip side, I have had the opposite with plants from Dartfrog to Ant, I've only had a couple that weren't healthy. I don't know your location, but if you can get to Bewdley area then a visit to the store is worth the time and effort, that way you can actually CHOSE your plants and see them before you buy, and he DOES actually stock some of the less common one in the shop that aren't listed on the website.

Soil you will find that everybody uses their own versions. Myself I use a mixture of ground xaxim and fine grade orchid bark to which I add a handful of either eco-earth or sphagnum peat, some crushed up oak leaves and some chopped live sphagnum. I am also getting excellent results putting this on top of a layer of composted bark (Pollywog sells this) with a scattering of powdered calcium bentonite. This is seeded springtails and woodlice (I prefer the African dwarf ones). I use good old weed fabric to separate it from my drainage layer or false bottom where I need to.

All that said, some of my nicest, and rarer, plants have come from Dutch Rana, ENT and Bromelian Westerman. Sure shipping costs more, but you get more for your money, especially with Westerman who sent me an extra brom free of charge.

Re glass, acrylic or perspex. Lexan and twin wall polycarbonate DO let more UV through if you are using UV lighting (both types of polycarbonate), or there is the more expensive option of Optiwhite glass (optifloat has poor penetration for UV, and is the standard type of glass). Twin wall is the easiest, you can cut it with scissors and buy quite large sheets on eBay, but it is more flexible.

Misting system, for me it HAS to be Mistking, with the pest price to performance/quality ratio. The Dartfrog and Pollywog systems are VERY loud, and the ENT kit you will pay as much for the pump as you would a system with seconds timer for a Mistking. Mistking pumps are pretty much silent, and the nozzles produce a lovely fine mist. The only con is they use 6mm hose not 4mm, which means you need a bigger hole for the bulkhead.

Ade


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

have a read through some of the posts here Planted Vivariums - Reptile Forums there are some graet guides, and some brillant discussion on bioactive substrates etc. 

Alternative supplies are at the top of the page, the ones i use are dartfrog.co.uk and justairplants.co.uk. 

Other then that the other questions have all been answered I think. 

jay


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Alterantively, hassle people on here and they'll send you plant cuttings for very cheap.


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## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)

:2thumb::notworthy::2thumb::notworthy:

cheers everyone for your information no doubt i have loads more questions for you all.
Firstly,thanks everyone and be patient with me i want the best for my pdf's when i actually get round to purchasing them :2thumb:thats all !!!!!

right my new plan is a half and half lid (mesh/perspex),
im going to half my eggcrate depth to 5 cm, should be plenty,
weed fabric for between eggcrate and soil,
for my soil im gonna go for a mix similar to wolfenrooks ( not sure what xaxim is though??) 
im gonna go for the mistking system too !!
think im gonna try a few tester plants off dartfrog first too on that side of things then maybe go the holland route :no1:

a few more questions :lol2::notworthy:

1. lighting, what exactly am i gonna need in the bulb department to keep my tank looking good and healthy,im talking striplights but which exact ones would you recommend folks (very important) or are we talking sodium bulbs and metal halide ??

2.the mistking i want is just the basic package would this be ok or should i upgrade any part of it at all like nozzles etc?(because you can i have looked :2thumb

3.im thinking of building it up as i go along due to the cost like buying a few plants a week ,would this be ok ? or do people do their tanks all in one go ?

4.biological filtration for soil (im just calling it soil for easiness folks) springtails and woodlice i hear are the way forward can you actually buy them in soil ?
or am i better off adding them myself? enlighten me people !!!

5.which moss/broms/climbers is best for a beginner like me?

6.if planting as you go is ok is there any specific order i should plant in ? eg moss before broms or climbers first or does it not matter ?

7.im thinking of adding the mist system at the end BUT before any frogs go in.:2thumb: While its just a planted tank, ( i want it to mature before adding any pdf's) would it be ok to just spray the tank with a pressurised spray gun used for watering my chameleon tank its like a fine mist and would only be for plants never when frogs are in because id have the mistking fitted by then ??

8.ive seen brown aquarium sealent which im gonna cover my home made waterfall project in but im not sure what to actually press into the silicone to make it look natural ? am i right in thinking eco earth? if yes how do i prepare it for this task? im also thinking of sticking slate to it for a natural looking river bed ,would it be ok to stick slate straight to the silicone ? above the waterline eco and below silicone and slate ?? does this sound ok? 

thanks again for reading this its very much appreciated


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

1. The type of 'striplights' you buy, depends entirely on your budget just ensure they're in the 6000 - 7000 K range

2. I use the Mistking Basic package (with additional nozzles), no complaints at all

3. Logistically it isn't really feasible - First you need the hardscape in place and plants after.

4. Buy the cultures from people on here (Mad4frogs sells them) or dartfrog - isopods boom really quickly, but trop woodlice take a goodwhile to get going initially. You can buy in dendrosoil, but IMO an ABG mix is a far superior substrate mix.

5. RESEARCH - Places like dendroboard.com have a seperate plant section so you can really find what suits you and your setup best. Generally speaking, Ficus Pumila, Pothos, Wandering Jew and Cissus Discolor are ideal vigorous climbers. Bromeliads - I've not found one I can't grow yet, but generally the Neoregelia Broms are better suited to PDF tanks. Again all this is entirely dependant on your choice of lighting.

6. Not really. Moss after the misting system is installed is all i'd reccomend. Oh and if you skimp on lighting you will struggle to get any moss to grow.

7. Hand misting is fine, and often people with just one tank will predominantly hand mist. I know a lot of owners don't install misting systems.

8. A mix of eco earth / peat / xaxim would give you a nice natural finish plus plenty of natural mosses that will grow in it.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The ground xaxim is just ground up tree fern. It is good for building a substrate as it retains moisture but helps drainage at the same time. You can buy it in 1 litre bags from Dartfrog.

Springtails, the cultures from livefoodwarehouse are usually good. Woodlice Dartfrog sells. You just open the culture you get and bung half into the viv, the other half use to set up external cultures which you can then use to feed with. 

Ade


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

There loads of information here on soil lol http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...59337-bio-active-substrates-how-why.htmlPlant 

Plant wise have a look round garden centres and supermarkets as there are loads of climbers and foliage plants you can get very cheap and maybe a few broms. 

Most of my broms and air plants come from either mark at dartfrog.co.uk, or gill at justairplants. Just have a look around and see what you like. 

Jay


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

You got your link wrong bud, and honestly, the actual thread is just an invitation to buy a book for the rest of the info, where we're giving the info for free...

Regards


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> There loads of information here on soil lol http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...59337-bio-active-substrates-how-why.htmlPlant
> 
> Plant wise have a look round garden centres and supermarkets as there are loads of climbers and foliage plants you can get very cheap and maybe a few broms.
> 
> ...


Far more informative and in depth info available on Dendroboard regarding substrates....


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Follow the golden rule with your first tank. KISS.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Follow the golden rule with your first tank. KISS.


Just don't go so simple as you end up with eco earth on the bottom and a box in the viv for your frogs to hide in. lol

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi stu p from another Stu p,you are getting great advice(one beginner to another) just wanted to chip in a WELCOME we will talk more another day i guess,
Stu and somewhat distacted one too


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> You got your link wrong bud, and honestly, the actual thread is just an invitation to buy a book for the rest of the info, where we're giving the info for free...
> 
> Regards


:lol2::lol2::lol2:

@ the original poster; K.I.S.S. by the way, means 'Keep it Simple, Stupid!'- in other words, concentrate on giving your frogs the best conditions you can manage and maintain, rather than being dazzled by tech toys. Some of them are incredibly useful, but a lot are redundant. You may think your tank is incredibly hideous, but your frogs may think it gives them everything they ever dreamed of- if they ever actually dream...:lol2:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Wolfenrook said:


> You got your link wrong bud, and honestly, the actual thread is just an invitation to buy a book for the rest of the info, where we're giving the info for free...
> 
> Regards


No harm in shameless self promotion lol. But it's somewhere to start, where people can then go for the free reading elsewhere, develop more info and then ask questions. 

Jay


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## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)

*thanks*

cheers everyone for your information so far bloody thumbs up :2thumb:

been a while since ive been on properly with time to chat so dont think ive been being ignorant peeps im hoping to have the tank finished by national frog day so i can go to manchester and hopefully see somebody about picking up some pdf's 

thats the plan anyway :lol2::no1:

been checkin out costs for everything and been paying my bills like a good citizen (feel robbed every time i pay my council tax) so gradually getting there found loads of slate which im making the water feature out of so happy days on that score and really just picking up bits as i go really got a few questions though :blush::mf_dribble::gasp:

gonna try to upload some pictures of what i have so far but im no whizz on the old p.c :cussing::cussing:

anyway questions will be better answered when pictures are up i think so thanks for now everyont who chipped in with advice your all stars


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## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)

*pictures*












<a href="http://s1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/stueyp81/dart%20frog%20terrarium%20stuff/?action=view&current=beard001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/stueyp81/dart%20frog%20terrarium%20stuff/beard001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)

*another one*


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## stueyp (Mar 3, 2011)




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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

few tips iv found that turn a great viv into an amazing viv sling the bulbs and get some form of t5s grab a mistking misting system those 2 in conjunction and you will have a truelly stunning viv in no time :2thumb:


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