# Prices to high you can get the same in the uk



## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

I cant see why you would pay the sort of prices for reptiles being imported from the USA when the same quality is being bred in the uk and are a 3rd of the price Leos seem to be the big thing for import jmg, Ron tremper and others I understand these are the big names in Leopard gecko breeding but its just a name in my opinion I bought a RAPTOR from the doncaster show for £70 its got 2 full red eyes a perfect raptor so why pay 3 times this for a leo from the USA lets look after the british breeder as anybody any thoughts on this its only my opinion


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Not the same quality with every species, though. For example, my main interests are gtp's and etb's and the UK is years behind the US breeders in terms of "designer" and "high-end" specimens. Same goes for royals; some of the morphs that are being produced at the moment in the US probably won't be produced over here for a few years (and that production is probably dependent on animals being brought in from the states!).

I suppose you could also argue that the reptile market in the US is much bigger than it is over here so they have a much bigger gene pool available. Many UK breeders will want to tap into that gene pool to get new blood into their collections...if the UK market became totally insular it would stagnate.

cheers

Stuart


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*importing*



essexchondro said:


> Not the same quality with every species, though. For example, my main interests are gtp's and etb's and the UK is years behind the US breeders in terms of "designer" and "high-end" specimens. Same goes for royals; some of the morphs that are being produced at the moment in the US probably won't be produced over here for a few years (and that production is probably dependent on animals being brought in from the states!).
> 
> I suppose you could also argue that the reptile market in the US is much bigger than it is over here so they have a much bigger gene pool available. Many UK breeders will want to tap into that gene pool to get new blood into their collections...if the UK market became totally insular it would stagnate.
> 
> ...


Hi Stuart,

the biggest issue with importing reptiles from the US or Canads is the import costs which (for those that are unaware) are considerable.

When importing you pay for Airfreight, Vet Inspection, clearance, a handling fee and VAT.

HM Customs and excise are fully aware of animals value so the chances of taking the pss are small.

These all add up to make your cheap Dollar/Pound deal less financially attractive.

On top of that you are relying on the dealer to send you the stock you ordered (yes most do!).

The biggest factor is the transport which neither you as the buyer/importer or Joe Yankee your supplier have any control over!!!

18 Months ago I imported a number of very high end GTP's and lost a significant number due to transport temperatures.

when I arrived at the Animal Reception Centre at Heathrow the vet (a very well known vet) stated that they were very nice snakes from a dealer well known to him but that when inspected they were found to be Very VERY cold.........not good for gtps!!!

Would I do it again????

No way....anyway my thoughts for the morning


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## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

Iv'e always considered getting a leo imported from USA but when you add on the shipping costs it makes it much cheaper to buy them here. It also causes less stress buying from here as the leo is very unlikely to be in a small box for about 10 hours. And in most cases you can also have a look at what your getting first over here.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> Hi Stuart,
> 
> the biggest issue with importing reptiles from the US or Canads is the import costs which (for those that are unaware) are considerable.
> 
> ...


Hi Graeme,

Yes, I'm sorry to say I did here about your misfortunes with importing on the "other" forum.

The point I was making in my original post wasn't so much about the costs and risks of importing, it was more to do with what the thread starter said about "the same quality is being bred in the uk". As you and I both know that's certainly not true with many reptile species; gtp's being an obvious example of that (there aren't any "very high end gtp's" being bred in the UK!).

I think that the fact that people import _despite_ the costs and risks of doing so is evidence that there must be something about the quality and/or range of animals available state-side that just aren't available over here.

cheers

Stuart


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Hi Stuart,
> 
> the biggest issue with importing reptiles from the US or Canads is the import costs which (for those that are unaware) are considerable.
> 
> ...



I compleatly agree with the above points.
As we do import for RT and JMG we can tell you that by the time people add on the shipping fee vat fee agent fee etc etc as well as the fact there is a minimum order for all USA sites to send to the uk or wherever.
Its not worth the customers while to buy stuff they dont want.
Personally we import so that people who want to own a special morph can do without having to go over the the USA and bring them back.
They dont have to go through the stress of dealing with agents, flights, bookings etc etc. Trust me its a lot of stress. 

Also you say its just a name its not, its the fact you know these breeders are well respected and that if there are any problems at all they will try their up most to fix them. Thats something money cant buy!

Tbh anyone that hasnt ever imported cant fully understand the work involved doing it.
Do we make money on the imports not on your nelly i wish we did but we dont it covers our overheads and agent and tax fees thats about it.


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> I cant see why you would pay the sort of prices for reptiles being imported from the USA when the same quality is being bred in the uk and are a 3rd of the price Leos seem to be the big thing for import jmg, Ron tremper and others I understand these are the big names in Leopard gecko breeding but its just a name in my opinion I bought a RAPTOR from the doncaster show for £70 its got 2 full red eyes a perfect raptor so why pay 3 times this for a leo from the USA lets look after the british breeder as anybody any thoughts on this its only my opinion


You got very lucky to pick up a full red eyed RAPTOR at £70 in the UK they are averaging out at £120-£160 each as hatchlings. For some reason your name seems to come to mind but I cant quite put my finger on it EDITED I now remember the username Northwest reptiles one of the owners and your banging on about importers when you have CFs etc what about protecting the UK breeders.

I import for the morphs to get them into the UK to give others a chance who can't get them.


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## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

I agree that some reptiles and morphs are only available from the US and have no problem with people bringing them in to the UK if thats the only way But alot of leopard geckos are being imported that are available in the uk I can understand importing a phantom but not a SHTCT these are bred in there 1000s in the UK im not having ago at the importers or the people who are buying them if thats what you want thats up to you its just my opinion and wanted some of your thoughtsas for the last post by DIABLO im not having a go at you i sell CF royals but nobody in the UK breeds enough cb normal royals to supply the UK market i do breed normal Royals but only averaging 6-8 eggs you cant supply everybody


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> I agree that some reptiles and morphs are only available from the US and have no problem with people bringing them in to the UK if thats the only way But alot of leopard geckos are being imported that are available in the uk I can understand importing a phantom but not a SHTCT these are bred in there 1000s in the UK im not having ago at the importers or the people who are buying them if thats what you want thats up to you its just my opinion and wanted some of your thoughtsas for the last post by DIABLO im not having a go at you i sell CF royals but nobody in the UK breeds enough cb normal royals to supply the UK market i do breed normal Royals but only averaging 6-8 eggs you cant supply everybody


How ever........

CF royals are the reason why people dont breed that many royals now days. Because people would rather spend £20 on a CF than £50 on a CB. Also its not just about the morphs its about people being able to OWN one of Ron Trempers or Jeff Galewoods leopard geckos they are gods within themselves in the gecko community. The quality of the super hypos are so much better than those available in the UK the tangerine is more intense. 
If it is just your opinion then your contradicting yourself straight away. Because its fine to import CFs from South Africa but its not ok in your eyes to import leopard geckos from great breeders. Fair enough you may not be having ago but it certainly seems like your having a Dig at importers. 
I breed both Leopard geckos and Royals but I still import and why is that to get fresh blood over to the UK and not keep on inbreeding because you don't know the ancestry. So before you start giving an opinion on importing think about what your doing yourself.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> I agree that some reptiles and morphs are only available from the US and have no problem with people bringing them in to the UK if thats the only way But alot of leopard geckos are being imported that are available in the uk I can understand importing a phantom but not a SHTCT these are bred in there 1000s in the UK im not having ago at the importers or the people who are buying them if thats what you want thats up to you its just my opinion and wanted some of your thoughtsas for the last post by DIABLO im not having a go at you i sell CF royals but nobody in the UK breeds enough cb normal royals to supply the UK market i do breed normal Royals but only averaging 6-8 eggs you cant supply everybody


But why pay £75 for a CF when you can get a CB from a breeder for less than that?


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

I agree with northwest reps. people over here should start using breeders in the UK who produce some excellent geckos, rather than being so quick to import


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

cuddles said:


> I agree with northwest reps. people over here should start using breeders in the UK who produce some excellent geckos, rather than being so quick to import


Lol maybe you didnt read the other posts NW imports him self!


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

actually there are shops in the UK who refuse to sell CF royals and only sell CB Babies..

if one can do it, why not others?

greed. they will sell more CF than they will CB, because they can get more CF in.

so instead of sticking to principles... they go with the market and buy what sells. regardless of where it came from.

WC and CF have their place, don't get me wrong.. but for a shop to say we stock CF because we cannot get enough CB.. means they are doing what a shop needs to do and following where the money lies.. and not always where the ethics lie.

N


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

cuddles said:


> I agree with northwest reps. people over here should start using breeders in the UK who produce some excellent geckos, rather than being so quick to import


LMAO 


I just wee'd myself


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

I dont think I wrote anything funny, Im sorry that you seem to suffer from bladder problems. 

My point is, we'll never have big breeders over here like Ron Tremper etc. if people are too quick to jump on the band wagon importing geckos like albinos, giants, shct and so on. 

Royals are a whole different kettle of fish, so what if he sells captive farmed royals. The large majority of normal royals offered for sale are probably captive farmed or wc. 

(while on the subject of WC, I'd rather use a toilet than wee myself)


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## the-tick (Nov 27, 2006)

we will and can have "big breeders" over here but the uk is a tiny market to the US and with the 2 to 1 dollar to pound exchange rate people take the import route as most owners would rather wait a couple months rather wait (in some cases years) for particular morphs to be bred here.

In the couple of years or more cf royals have gotten (some say wrongly) a terrible reputation for fussy eating and that's made a lot of newer owners wary of them


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

Its quite easy really......if you think the U.S Imports are too expensive then Dont Buy Them

Buy the cheaper ones bred in the U.K....................:2thumb:


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

I have bought lots of reptiles from Paul at Northwest reps, some he breeds himself. I don't think hes an importer of royals. He buys about 20-30cf keeps them for a couple of months, makes sure they're feeding well and sells them
to people like me(thanks paul). I agree that some morphs of leopard geckos
are worth importing but there are lots of uk breeders you can buy good quality morphs from like Paul at Northwest Reptiles, Steve and Jo at Geckomania and global geckosare one to watch out for.
The other thing I don't understand, if you dont make any money importing
reptiles then why do it (diablo/faith). You must have high paying jobs if you can do all you say you do for no profit maybe you should register as a charity.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

what i do find interesting.. is that there are never so many comments when corns are imported from the USA...

N


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

Nerys said:


> what i do find interesting.. is that there are never so many comments when corns are imported from the USA...
> 
> N


I import all my corns from the states..............:no1:


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

jdb said:


> I have bought lots of reptiles from Paul at Northwest reps, some he breeds himself. I don't think hes an importer of royals. He buys about 20-30cf keeps them for a couple of months, makes sure they're feeding well and sells them
> to people like me(thanks paul). I agree that some morphs of leopard geckos
> are worth importing but there are lots of uk breeders you can buy good quality morphs from like Paul at Northwest Reptiles, Steve and Jo at Geckomania and global geckosare one to watch out for.
> The other thing I don't understand, if you dont make any money importing
> reptiles then why do it (diablo/faith). *You must have high paying jobs if you can do all you say you do for no profit maybe you should register as a charity.*


or maybe we could start a collection for them?


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

Nerys said:


> what i do find interesting.. is that there are never so many comments when corns are imported from the USA...
> 
> N


 have you not seen how many will be coming over this year?
thereeeeeeeeee goes the market


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> I agree with northwest reps. people over here should start using breeders in the UK who produce some excellent geckos, rather than being so quick to import




But dont you think northwest reps. is being a bit hypocritical bearing in mind that they sell CF *imported* royals? 



> I dont think I wrote anything funny, Im sorry that you seem to suffer from bladder problems.
> 
> My point is, we'll never have big breeders over here like Ron Tremper etc. if people are too quick to jump on the band wagon importing geckos like albinos, giants, shct and so on.
> 
> ...




We'll never have big name "world class" breeders here anyway; the market is far to small for internal sales within the UK and this country is far too expensive for a large scale breeding operation to be based here even if most of the animals were to be exported to Europe or the USA etc etc

Why are royals so different from geckos? Both are extremely popular species in captivity with the potential to be bred in captivity in large numbers. The reason so many CF royals get sold each year is primarily because dealers import so many. By flooding the market with CF its inevitable that a lot of CF get sold...and this high number of CF sales is then used as evidence to suggest that high numbers of CF are actually needed to supply demand (it's pretty easy to spot the flaw in that logic!).

From what I can see, the CF royal market is artificially sustained at its current level by dealers and pet shops who don't want to lose profits rather than it being the case that CF animals are genuinely needed in the quantities imported in order to meet actual UK demand for royals. If dealers/pet shops were prepared to focus less on making a quick(er) profit through CF, and placed more effort into producing their own CB animals (like a few of the better pets shops are now doing,) I don't see any reason to suspect that the UK market couldn't be sustained by UK CB animals coupled with the injection of new blood from non-UK bred CB animals and a small number of CF and WC animals going to* serious hobbyists and breeders* i.e. not being sold as "pets" to novices like the majority currently are.

CF and WC should be left to the rarer species that genuinely aren't being produced in captivity in any great number (but even then this should only be a relatively short term process in order to establish and then occasionally "top-up" captive populations). The reason CF royals are still being imported in such large numbers is because people want to make a fast buck and cash in on the popularity of the species without actually putting in the time and effort to produce (enough) CB animals themselves. Like most things it all boils down to money...but it is a shame when money is earned in a way that seems to be detrimental to the hobby itself. Flooding the market with cheap CF royals not only discourages breeders from producing CB "normals" (which, of course, has the effect of contributing to the continuation of the CF importing cycle), but the average CF is also a less robust animal than the average CB one which means that a lot of novices may end up with inferior quality animals which ultimately could have the effect of discouraging them from continuing in the hobby.

Just my thoughts

cheers

Stuart


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## the-tick (Nov 27, 2006)

cuddles said:


> or maybe we could start a collection for them?


Is there really a need for that ?


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

The only reason that it could be detrimental to the hobby is if the people selling arent honest in the first place. Fair enough, pet shops, breeders and other sellers should give out good advice. But, personally, before buying any animal, I'd do the research myself.


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

the-tick said:


> Is there really a need for that ?



Well was there any need for the comment laughing there arses off and weeing thereselves to a serious reply I made?


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## the-tick (Nov 27, 2006)

cuddles said:


> Well was there any need for the comment laughing there arses off and weeing thereselves to a serious reply I made?


so childish tit for tat works....................................


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

i think if i have read this post correctly
what nw reptiles was saying there is no point importing overpriced leopard geckos
when there available at half the price from uk breeders
every body knows we should be buying cb rather than cf maybe the uk breeders could reduce the price of cb royals so less people would buy
cf (this may help ?) talking of hyporcritical didnt faith want about a dozen
wild caught leopard geckos a few months ago?


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## cuddles (Oct 7, 2006)

i wasnt being childish

so nurrrrrrrr :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## amber_gekko (May 11, 2007)

Some people buy from RT and others because they invented certain morphs, and some of which aren't available in this country without importing them.
If you want to be at the fore front of leopard geckos, corns or whatever you need to keep up with new morphs so that you can be one of only a few quality UK breeders being able to offer them. Therefore creating a UK market.
And as for the comment about no one in this country becoming a top breeder due to importing thats a load of :censor:, what about Paul Harris @ UK Pythons (ok i know he lives on the continent now but he is british). The reason most people dont become massive breeders is generally because it would cost a lot to set up and its risky especially if you want to become like a nerd or RT inventing new morphs because you might spend years on one thing, most people cant be bothered.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> The only reason that it could be detrimental to the hobby is if the people selling arent honest in the first place. Fair enough, pet shops, breeders and other sellers should give out good advice. But, personally, before buying any animal, I'd do the research myself.


A CF royal passes through several hands in its journey from Africa to final owner in the UK. The pet shop or dealer that the UK buyer buys from may be perfectly honest, but they're one of the last links in the chain so who's to say they have the full story. Exactly what research do you do before you buy a CF royal other than what you're told by the person directly above you in the chain?

Also, higher instances of CF's turning out to be problem feeders and carrying parasites compared to CB has next to nothing to do with how honest the seller is. Its to do with the fact that they're CF _per se_.

Stuart


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

The uk breeders could try lowering their prices perhaps? If the uk market reflected prices across the water a little more then it would stop being viable to import. Looking at it from a personal point of view, I'll probably be looking for a few boa morphs in the next year or so, if it happens I get get a good enough deal on what I'm after from a uk breeder I'm more than happy to "go domestic" as it were, chances are however I'll end up finding it a lot cheaper and of similar or better quality if I ordered with an importer or picked them from somewhere like Ham.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> The uk breeders could try lowering their prices perhaps? If the uk market reflected prices across the water a little more then it would stop being viable to import. Looking at it from a personal point of view, I'll probably be looking for a few boa morphs in the next year or so, if it happens I get get a good enough deal on what I'm after from a uk breeder I'm more than happy to "go domestic" as it were, chances are however I'll end up finding it a lot cheaper and of similar or better quality if I ordered with an importer or picked them from somewhere like Ham.


To import from the USA generally wont save you any real money. The american breeders website might list the snake for half the price you'd pay for the same animal from a UK breeder, but once you add all the associated import fees *and the VAT at 17.5%* then the cost wont be all that different from buying from a UK breeder. With Hamm its different because you're moving the animal within the EU. 

The UK is a bloody expensive country to live in so your average UK breeder has a much more costly operation to pay for relative to his European or American counter-parts...its unfair to expect their prices to be as cheap.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

jdb said:


> I have bought lots of reptiles from Paul at Northwest reps, some he breeds himself. I don't think hes an importer of royals. He buys about 20-30cf keeps them for a couple of months, makes sure they're feeding well and sells them
> to people like me(thanks paul). I agree that some morphs of leopard geckos
> are worth importing but there are lots of uk breeders you can buy good quality morphs from like Paul at Northwest Reptiles, Steve and Jo at Geckomania and global geckosare one to watch out for.
> The other thing I don't understand, if you dont make any money importing
> reptiles then why do it (diablo/faith). You must have high paying jobs if you can do all you say you do for no profit maybe you should register as a charity.


LOL those are customers of ours so with out us importing for them tell me how they would offer these moprhs to the public:?

We cover our over heads with importing thats all no we are not a charity but the customers have to pay vat, import fees, agent fees, customs fees, did you know that they CHARGE you for transfering dollar to the pound :bash:

Why do it because with out people that import the UK would be 5 yrs behind the states not just 2 breeding seasons!

Our finances are sod all to do with us importing at all and nothing to do with you!


By all means start a collection for us ill have a few radar bells considering your offering
I dont see anyone mention CPR they make a LIVING importing royals from nerd i bet not one of you have emailed them and told them to stop have ya.
Oh and Bob Clarke what he is doing is ohhhh sooooo wrong because he is offering royals from the usa in the uk.

Or maybe is it because if people import direct they have no need to pay the stuid prices for leos that pet shops are charging.
I think maybe that is it tbh.

If people have a problem with our service or our prices they are welcome to PM me or even make a public thread about it we have nothing to hide,
We shall see how many HAPPY customers we have after this weekend shall we,
What bloody importers do you know that LAYS ON A FRIGGIN BBQ for their customers.

Some people need to keep their noses out!
At the end of the day NW IMPORT when there is NO need to at all CF royals are normals as far as im aware they are available here in the uk at a CHEAPER price than he is selling them and those are CB!


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

I feel a bit of a connection here with some members prehaps in a friendly manner. 

How ever you have your opinion and I have mine. If you don't like the fact I import top quality geckos then oh well you don't have to buy them do you.

Prehaps you should start a collection for yourself because who knows you might be a breeder and I'm taking away your customers with my USA Imports. Chill out its life.

Enough said from myself thats my opinions and veiws which the OP asked for.

But seriously I can get you some nice geckos interested PM me


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

essexchondro said:


> To import from the USA generally wont save you any real money. The american breeders website might list the snake for half the price you'd pay for the same animal from a UK breeder, but once you add all the associated import fees *and the VAT at 17.5%* then the cost wont be all that different from buying from a UK breeder. With Hamm its different because you're moving the animal within the EU.
> 
> The UK is a bloody expensive country to live in so your average UK breeder has a much more costly operation to pay for relative to his European or American counter-parts...its unfair to expect their prices to be as cheap.


Unfair perhaps, doesn't change the fact that lots people will go for a cheaper option if its available.


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## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

I have never imported a reptile in my life i have bought WC and CF reptiles over the last 15 years but would buy a CB reptile before a wc if it was available my point at the start of the thread was is it worth importing reptiles from the US when the very same reptiles are being bred in the UK at less than half the price yes some morphs are only available from the US and if you want to be the first to breed them in the UK then go ahead and import them but come on a SHTCT leo from a uk breeder at £45 is as good as one from ron tremper in my opinion so why import them and pay £120 plus the differance between a wc or cf royal is just that they are wc/cf and not enough are bred to supply the UK market but you are importing a CB reptile from the USA When their is already enough numbers being bred in the UK to supply the UK market


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> I have never imported a reptile in my life i have bought WC and CF reptiles over the last 15 years but would buy a CB reptile before a wc if it was available my point at the start of the thread was is it worth importing reptiles from the US when the very same reptiles are being bred in the UK at less than half the price yes some morphs are only available from the US and if you want to be the first to breed them in the UK then go ahead and import them but come on a SHTCT leo from a uk breeder at £45 is as good as one from ron tremper in my opinion so why import them and pay £120 plus the differance between a wc or cf royal is just that they are wc/cf and not enough are bred to supply the UK market but you are importing a CB reptile from the USA When their is already enough numbers being bred in the UK to supply the UK market


But seriously I can get you nice geckos  

Its not my fault that i've opened the gates to the USA for people in the UK, I value my customers and I like to full fill there needs when possible. But you have come on here banging away at leopard gecko importers. The thing that gets me is why not bang on about royal importers or retic importers. Would you like to explain that or is it just that obvious you aimed this thread and me, if that is the case fair play. But, I will still import and I will still sell at good prices. Sorry if i've disapointed you and you all expected a display of anger and agression.

Mr D.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

LOL you might not import but with out the importers you wouldnt have half the stock you do.
If you had a problem with us as the thread is obviously aimed at us then you should have said.
Tell me how a JMG creamesicle or a Blood hypo is the same quality as one over here now your talking tat.

With out ever importing its not possible for you to even try to grasp how difficult it can be, as i said dont like our prices dont buy from us but show me where you can get a diablo blanco enigma for the same price we can or a super snow bell albino!

If your problem is that their are not enough royals then breed your own
If you dont like the fact that we can get things in to the uk that are not already here then oh well never mind 
Complain to CRP go on why not as after all we do exactly what they do!
I bet ya wont will ya or is your problem that we are on your door step and they aint!


Northwest reps said:


> I have never imported a reptile in my life i have bought WC and CF reptiles over the last 15 years but would buy a CB reptile before a wc if it was available my point at the start of the thread was is it worth importing reptiles from the US when the very same reptiles are being bred in the UK at less than half the price yes some morphs are only available from the US and if you want to be the first to breed them in the UK then go ahead and import them but come on a SHTCT leo from a uk breeder at £45 is as good as one from ron tremper in my opinion so why import them and pay £120 plus the differance between a wc or cf royal is just that they are wc/cf and not enough are bred to supply the UK market but you are importing a CB reptile from the USA When their is already enough numbers being bred in the UK to supply the UK market


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

theres no need to go on the defensive
diablo/faith its only my opinion
you pick up lots of things when it suits you
(i.e lol he imports and sells cf royals)
but you havn't commented on the fact you to wanted some wild caught
leopard geckos does that meen your hypocritical to?
you seem to pick up on everybody elses fault so why not answer some of yours


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

jdb said:


> theres no need to go on the defensive
> diablo/faith its only my opinion
> you pick up lots of things when it suits you
> (i.e lol he imports and sells cf royals)
> ...



WC leopard geckos to bring a new blood line in to a lavender blush breeding group because they may be the only 3 in the uk :bash:
Before shouting your mouth off get your facts straight, WC leos to test breed to enigmas to see if it really is inbreeding that started the head tilts an circling..........oh but no we was going to import WC to make money :whistling2:
Yup i have to admit we were there is no way we can do with out them in our collection and their nasty things they could be bringin in with them,
Seriously take a step back from the keyboard and think about what your saying before you type it!

Or is it becasue you own stockport pet wearhouse and you have a problem with not being able to do what we do.
Didnt you know envy turns you green!


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Nowt wrong with importin, brings different animals to the market at a better price, but there are a lot of breeders/hobbyists in the UK who don't like importers because they bring better quality animals into the market cheaper(usually :lol2.


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## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

The thread was not ment at a dig at you im affraid your not that inportantas for opening the gates to the Uk tremper line Leos have been in the Uk for years you are not the first to import and are not the only importer now As for quality and price that is a matter of opinion if your custermers are happy thats all that counts but come on mate get over yourself


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> The thread was not ment at a dig at you im affraid your not that inportantas for opening the gates to the Uk tremper line Leos have been in the Uk for years you are not the first to import and are not the only importer now As for quality and price that is a matter of opinion if your custermers are happy thats all that counts but come on mate get over yourself


I think you need to do some research personally...........


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

corns, leopard geckos, royals, these are just a small handful of imported reptiles from America, as they are years a head of us in genetics and new morphs etc etc 

so importing a leopard gecko from RT or JMG answers itself, why because you are paying for top notch quality livestock, 

yes the UK has some excellent breeders which are selling them a lot cheaper than the import price, but certain breeders or keepers actually like the fact that they OWN a reptile from one of the best breeders in the business,

if you look at some of these SHTCT the colouring is a lot brighter and the overall appearance is much better, thats because it is offspring from his best parents, 

personally i would love to own a leopard gecko straight from RT, just because i can,


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Northwest reps said:


> The thread was not ment at a dig at you im affraid your not that inportantas for opening the gates to the Uk tremper line Leos have been in the Uk for years you are not the first to import and are not the only importer now As for quality and price that is a matter of opinion if your custermers are happy thats all that counts but come on mate get over yourself


Really now. 

I know Ron supplys wholesale to prestopets and others. How about this though I'm Rons personal importer for Private Uk Customers which I can assure you that there isn't anyone else that does that. Also I can beat the pet shop prices. 
So how about you get over yourself. 

Very petty IMO how its two reptile breeders/shops in vertually in the same vacinity have targeted gecko importers and not a word about bob clark or henry battern. Strange but true.


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## melanie (Jan 18, 2007)

right my views as a uk leopard gecko breeder is that many of the morphs i sell are actually cheaper than the usa imported ones.
Alot of my breeders have usa bloodlines such as ron tremper,geckos etc and are therfore high quality and i have used these genes along with genes from some of the best uk bred gecko breeders to further inprove certain morphs.
my aim has always been to provide quality morphs at affordable prices and i get alot of pleasure and satisfaction at knowing i do that however please do not take offence at this comment but as a gecko breeder yourself diablo i cannot understand where you get the pleasure of selling someone elses geckos, after all you have your'e own geckos to sell and i fail to see the joy unless there was a finacial gain at wanting the stress and worry and added work in selling for somone else, why would you want to do this if there is nothing in it for you.
As a uk breeder it does not worry me that you do but confuses me as to why,alot of what we sell is not just based on the quality and the care we put in but on our reputation too but what makes it more worthwhile is knowing that by breeding we are improving and with that comes the satisfaction .


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

melanie said:


> right my views as a uk leopard gecko breeder is that many of the morphs i sell are actually cheaper than the usa imported ones.
> Alot of my breeders have usa bloodlines such as ron tremper,geckos etc and are therfore high quality and i have used these genes along with genes from some of the best uk bred gecko breeders to further inprove certain morphs.
> my aim has always been to provide quality morphs at affordable prices and i get alot of pleasure and satisfaction at knowing i do that however please do not take offence at this comment but as a gecko breeder yourself diablo i cannot understand where you get the pleasure of selling someone elses geckos, after all you have your'e own geckos to sell and i fail to see the joy unless there was a finacial gain at wanting the stress and worry and added work in selling for somone else, why would you want to do this if there is nothing in it for you.
> As a uk breeder it does not worry me that you do but confuses me as to why,alot of what we sell is not just based on the quality and the care we put in but on our reputation too but what makes it more worthwhile is knowing that by breeding we are improving and with that comes the satisfaction .


No Offence taken Mel.

We breed for the passion we have the chance to import for 3 of the top USA breeders.
I breed for one reason the hobby I love seeing the heads pop out the eggs.

Have you ever seen the look on someone elses face when you hand over a Ron Tremper, JMG or Steve Sykes leopard gecko. You must of done when you bought your bell enigma for Mark tell me the look on he's face wasnt worth it. Thats why we do it too see that face.


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## mjsgeckos (Apr 7, 2008)

To the original point of 'Why import from the US?'...

If Diablo and Faith didn't do this then we wouldnt have some of the most amazing Morphs, like the Diablo Blanco breeding group we have purchased from them...or they would be in very very short supply...

We all have to remember that as a small time breeder or big scale breeder, we are working with a living art...we have a beautiful hobby which if you put the time and effort into, we are enlightened with genetic transformations and discoveries...
So thanks Importers....

I am jumping off my soap box now.....

Go importers...bring on those adorable Morphs!!!:2thumb:


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## amber_gekko (May 11, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Very petty IMO how its two reptile breeders/shops in vertually in the same vacinity have targeted gecko importers and not a word about bob clark or henry battern. Strange but true.


Funny that isn't it?!


Anyway surely everything in this country was imported at sometime cos when i last looked i didn't have to worry about wild retics eating my dogs or do i??????


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

i dont have a problem with you faith/diablo
but its allwell you having a go at people
selling cf and calling people hypocritical
when you want wc animals to (fair point dont you think)
no one was saying we shouldnt bring some of the higher end morphs in
we were saying there is no point bringing in some of the lower end morphs
in because you can buy them for half the price
but you allways think everybody having a go at you


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

this is going too fast for me.. i might just ban faith and diablo for the fun of it :lol2:


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

jdb said:


> i dont have a problem with you faith/diablo
> but its allwell you having a go at people
> selling cf and calling people hypocritical
> when you want wc animals to (fair point dont you think)
> ...


Never once did either of us call anyone hypocritical, 
We didnt want WC's in to sell to anyone at all so im afraid you have no point now i know for a fact there were only 2 people on this forum that knew we wanted WC so i can guess where you figured that out from.
I wasnt having a go at anyone for importing CF's at all what i was saying was the OP was moaning about the price of imported leos when he sells imported CF royals at a higher price than a breeder would.
Dont tell me he sells the CF's for £75 because they cost so much to import because i know for a fact they dont.

The reason it looked like the OP was directing the comment at us is because we are the only ones that import for JMG and RT.
He didnt mention anyone else, not even bob clark and consider that bob clark is coming over to the UK with loads of royals or is that because maybe NW has placed an order :?


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

if envy did turn me green what morph would i be?

would i be green het for envy
or envy het for green?


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

jdb said:


> if envy did turn me green what morph would i be?
> 
> would i be green het for envy
> or envy het for green?


the Grinch


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

jdb said:


> if envy did turn me green what morph would i be?
> 
> would i be green het for envy
> or envy het for green?


well that would be an emerald 
It would be het for envy


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> if envy did turn me green what morph would i be?
> 
> would i be green het for envy
> or envy het for green?


I think it's co-dominant. :lol2::lol2:


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## jdb (Oct 16, 2007)

i heard that bob clarke comming to england to buy some uk cb leopard geckos
because there half the price than some of the one in america
(clever man dont you think)


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## paull12345 (Jan 22, 2008)

just to let you know where i stand on the subject lol not that any one will reely be that boverd. i'm getting sum nice boas from bob in sep when he comes over to the uk if i got these boas from the uk (sunglow's ect) i wouldnt reely be able to aford any atall but by getting them from the u.s i'm able to aford them. i'll prob get more from the u.s like snow boa and a motley in the next year or two and i do plan to breed them but i'll prob just look at the u.s price and sell them for exchage rate aslong as i make my money bak i'm not reely boverd. in the end its all about free choice. I know for a fact if i couldnt get an inported snake then i wouldNT be able to breed reely good top end snakes without having to pay alot of £££££ IN the uk for now


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> this is going too fast for me.. i might just ban faith and diablo for the fun of it :lol2:


Ohhh do i get to sit in the naughty girls corner :blush:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

Faith said:


> Ohhh do i get to sit in the naughty girls corner :blush:


 yes, and more so coz u keep choosing the wrong days for ur bbqs lol


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

man! i could send a s**t load if the laws there weren't so strick......somebody is making some money there and it's not the exporters or importers...it's the stupid laws you all must want... dumb stuff.... for instance what does the vet REALLY do?.. how much is he getting paid?....


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

thats true, i guess he only needs to do anything if the animals are ill.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> thats true, i guess he only needs to do anything if the animals are ill.


 and then what? it's a fiasco... a spot check...free money... but good money. will they treat a sick animal? it's a gimmic.. vets are laughing all the way to the bank...... it's a guarded secret... a good gig if you can get it... you or i can do the same job.:lol2:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

i guess thats it though,m rules are rules.. not alot that can be done about it.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> i guess thats it though,m rules are rules..not alot that can be done about it.


* scream,!!! write them fellows... as fredrice douglass once said, when asked about injustice...he said..."
agitate, agitate...*


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> man! i could send a s**t load if the laws there weren't so strick......somebody is making some money there and it's not the exporters or importers...it's the stupid laws you all must want... dumb stuff.... for instance what does the vet REALLY do?.. how much is he getting paid?....


Its HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) that makes the real killing without actually doing anything. They play no active part in the shipment what so ever and still get to take 17.5% of the value of the snake as VAT (Value Added Tax). So, a UK buyer see a snake on a US website advertised for $1500 but don't realise that straight away they have to effectively add another $262.50 to that price to get the basic cost to them of the snake...on top of that they then need to add all the other associated costs like agents fees and vets fees etc etc.

Stuart


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## PSGeckos (Jul 15, 2007)

Ok my two pence worth...

We've imported geckos, but they are for our collection. When we first started to get into leopad geckos, from what i recall there was no such thing as UK distributors, if you wanted geckos from the US you either had to spend a stupid minimum amount or buy via the breeders website and collect from Europe (which what we've done).

How i see it is whilst i think its a great idea to bring in fresh breeding lines and the US are much more advanced than us, i think importing on huge numbers and selling at prices lower than the UK market will cause more price crashes, how can a UK breeder compete with prices say for Aptors and Raptors for under £100!

I'm surprised that no one has bought up the subject of bring in new diseases?

Its all swings and roundabouts.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> yes, and more so coz u keep choosing the wrong days for ur bbqs lol


***Sits in the naughty girls corner***

Ill upload some pictures of what importing looks like in our living room at 1 am this morning, for anyone thats been to hamm and come back at stupid o'clock and had to unpack a load of reptiles and rehouse them as well as water them then you know how we felt at silly o'clock this morning we didnt get to be till 3 am 
I've had my say on this topic but need to reply to psgeckos about bringing things in, people buy from other collections and from hamm its no different from that


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## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

lol.. funny how ppl try to sway the topic off topic. 

NW reptiles simply is saying dont import leos that you can get cheaper in uk, its all fine to do it when a certain super dally leo costs 500£ in the uk and only 200$ in the usa...

anyway faith/diablo, with the power of the internet i order you to get off your extremely high but utterly imaginary horses and be quiet.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

essexchondro said:


> Its HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) that makes the real killing without actually doing anything. They play no active part in the shipment what so ever and still get to take 17.5% of the value of the snake as VAT (Value Added Tax). So, a UK buyer see a snake on a US website advertised for $1500 but don't realise that straight away they have to effectively add another $262.50 to that price to get the basic cost to them of the snake...on top of that they then need to add all the other associated costs like agents fees and vets fees etc etc.
> 
> Stuart


 
i say criminals are running the joint!! are you all feeling safe now?-


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## Beardie jester (Aug 2, 2008)

jesuslovestheladies said:


> lol.. funny how ppl try to sway the topic off topic.
> 
> NW reptiles simply is saying dont import leos that you can get cheaper in uk, its all fine to do it when a certain super dally leo costs 500£ in the uk and only 200$ in the usa...


 
Hear hear! I read the original and agreed with the principle pointed out by jesuslovestheladies - the point is possibly trying to save people $$$ and help inform peeps that importing may not be necessary.

Seems Northwest reps is/was getting a bit too much stick for having an opinion?

Importing due to lack of UK option = fine!


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## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

well seeming as the thread has gone very abruptly quiet, i think we've reached the end. Northwest reps has a vaild point, but that does not mean you have to be influenced by that point in anyway (in other words, importers please dont start getting offended or thinking that because of some thread you have to stop importing)

god damn i love the internet, only on the www can people have such a jolly good argument:no1and rfuk seems to be full of em:whistling2

**EDIT - one last comment to cover my ass, its also perfectly fine to import in you like a certain breeders stock ect ect... basically no ones saying importing is bad, its just good to be a little partiotic to the country , whos with me?:2thumb:


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> i say criminals are running the joint!! are you all feeling safe now?-


Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely!


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