# Corn snakes?



## RURAL GECKOS (Dec 22, 2007)

Hi, Iv been keeping and breeding leopard geckos for over 20 years and my children think they would like to try and keep/ breed snakes.
Would I be right in thinking the easiest and cheapest way to start would be with a couple of corn snakes?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> Hi, Iv been keeping and breeding leopard geckos for over 20 years and my children think they would like to try and keep/ breed snakes.
> Would I be right in thinking the easiest and cheapest way to start would be with a couple of corn snakes?


Hi

Well they are fabulous snakes , loads of colour options , great feeders, lovely and friendly and very forgiving as well 

How many vivs were you thinking ??

Two Corns need two separate vivs 

Here’s my Blizzard Corn 


















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## RURAL GECKOS (Dec 22, 2007)

Zincubus said:


> Hi
> 
> Well they are fabulous snakes , loads of colour options , great feeders, lovely and friendly and very forgiving as well
> 
> ...


I have 4 spare vivs at the minute and various rubs on racks, do you breed them?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> I have 4 spare vivs at the minute and various rubs on racks, do you breed them?


Sadly no ... but there’s a good breeder on here called Pete Johnson .. you could always PM / DM him if you have any queries 


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## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

corns are great, however i would argue that it would be better to look into another species. there are loads of corns around, and a lot in rescues. perhaps another hardy species that is a little less common would serve you better in the long run.


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## RURAL GECKOS (Dec 22, 2007)

spigotbush said:


> corns are great, however i would argue that it would be better to look into another species. there are loads of corns around, and a lot in rescues. perhaps another hardy species that is a little less common would serve you better in the long run.


It’s just for fun so looking for something cheap and cheerful. Not looking to make money or sell for profit 👍🏽


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I see no point in breeding "just for fun". There are loads of corns around, so selling the offspring could be a timely and costly affair. Corns can have around 20 eggs in a clutch, all of the hatchlings need to be kept separately. And you could have some, if not most, for a fair amount of time.
Breeding snakes has its risks including egg binding.
So for all those reasons, and many more, breeding "just for fun" is, in my opinion, ridiculous.


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## Saladmander (12 mo ago)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> It’s just for fun so looking for something cheap and cheerful. Not looking to make money or sell for profit 👍🏽


It may be just for fun for you, but you will be producing living, breathing animals that will need care for the next 20 years, not to mention potentially putting your adult snakes at risk.
If you aren't willing to keep all and any babies you produce (in suitable enclosures) indefinitely, please reconsider breeding. If you aren't doing it out of of a genuine passion and love for the species, please reconsider breeding.
Looking for something - anything - cheap to breed just for the sake of it is a bit disgusting.

Unpopular opinion, but battery farming snakes and seeing them as commodities and cash machines rather than animals really needs to stop.

If its just for fun, there are plenty of breeding sims online for your kids to play around with.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Actually ...

He hasn’t actually SAID that he intends to breed ...


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Zincubus said:


> Actually ...
> 
> He hasn’t actually SAID that he intends to breed ...
> 
> ...


Read the OP's opening post.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> Actually ...
> 
> He hasn’t actually SAID that he intends to breed ...
> 
> ...


He has.



> It’s just for fun so looking for something cheap and cheerful. Not looking to make money or sell for profit 👍🏽


Unlike you to miss a point that obvious! That was the entire point of the thread - wanting to breed corn snakes as they are cheap to buy, and wanting to breed "for fun". The OP may have bred leopard geckos but the difference is, they produce 2 eggs. Corns produce around 20. And will take longer to sell, need to be housed individually, and cost more as a clutch to house, heat and feed.
I used to breed quite a lot, but no longer do. I found that as snake keeping became more popular, selling hatchlings took longer, to the point it was costing me more to care for the hatchlings than I made from selling them.
The whole "breed for fun" is worrying.
If the OP wants to experience breeding snakes my advice would be to avoid a "cheap and cheerful" species, and shell out on a pair of expensive, sought after snakes. The process is the same!


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## RURAL GECKOS (Dec 22, 2007)

Saladmander said:


> It may be just for fun for you, but you will be producing living, breathing animals that will need care for the next 20 years, not to mention potentially putting your adult snakes at risk.
> If you aren't willing to keep all and any babies you produce (in suitable enclosures) indefinitely, please reconsider breeding. If you aren't doing it out of of a genuine passion and love for the species, please reconsider breeding.
> Looking for something - anything - cheap to breed just for the sake of it is a bit disgusting.
> 
> ...


Little bit of an over the top reaction I think. I try use the tim with reptiles as educational for my children and thinking that I wouldn’t be able to care for them us a bit disrespectful. 
thsnks for your input


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> Little bit of an over the top reaction I think. I try use the tim with reptiles as educational for my children and thinking that I wouldn’t be able to care for them us a bit disrespectful.
> thsnks for your input


No it's not. At all.
You want to breed snakes "for fun" 
A species that can easily produce 20+ eggs per clutch. And is known to double clutch.
Living costs are leaping upwards. Which means that disposable income is plummeting. 
So luxuries such as a pet snake are literally below the bottom of the pile for many people. And so you will be stuck with lots of snakes that need lots of food.
Let's say 50p a pink. So for 6 weeks each snake costs a total of £3.00. With an average clutch of 20 eggs, all hatched, that means a total cost for 6 weeks for the entire clutch of £60. Now, after 6 weeks, you should be looking to give 2 pinks a week. So for the next 6 weeks, your food bill is now £120.
You then move onto fuzzies, 1 a week for 6bweeks then 2 a week for 6 weeks. And so on. The cost involved becomes substantial.
Your experience with breeding leopard geckos would surely have given the same education to your children as breeding snakes.
That, frankly, as an excuse literally fails at the first hurdle.
Get a snake, allow your children to interact with it. But there is absolutely zero benefit to them or you from breeding "for fun"


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> Hi, Iv been keeping and breeding leopard geckos for over 20 years and my children think they would like to try and keep/ breed snakes.
> Would I be right in thinking the easiest and cheapest way to start would be with a couple of corn snakes?


Just to look at things from a different angle to what others have already commented on. A mature female corn snake can produce between 25 and 30 eggs, most of which go full term. As others have already mentioned, their lifespan in captivity is 20+ years, so anyone taking on a snake it's a long term commitment. But with energy prices shooting to silly levels, and with a market already flooded with people selling up hole collections as they can no longer afford the costs involved in keeping them is it wise to add to that situation. People are simply not buying at the moment, and giving the way the energy crisis is going, it's going to be like that for some years. Granted from an experience point of view it's great to involve your kids in the process and experience the stages from courtship to hatching, but from a practical point of view now is not a gear time for breeding a commonly kept species. Breeding something less common may be more viable, but again, unless you already have things in place to move the offspring on, then it's still a possibility that you could still be looking after them this time next year.


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## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

RURAL GECKOS said:


> Little bit of an over the top reaction I think. I try use the tim with reptiles as educational for my children and thinking that I wouldn’t be able to care for them us a bit disrespectful.
> thsnks for your input


its great to have the kids involved with it all, no argument there. and i dont think anyone actually said you would be incapable of caring for them. its just that the approach is very much likely to turn into a costly and long winded affair and sting you in the butt. which in turn would be stressful and not much fun for the kids to have the experience of getting bogged down with a load of unwanted animals.
if you spend very little to get the animals then that should give you a clue as to what the market is like. pet shops already have more than they need so easy sales will be hard. you are likely to end up being forced into selling indiscriminately and for practically nothing just to try and make space and stop spending out. 
on the other hand you could look into more desirable species. sure they may cost a little more to buy in the first place, but they will be more likely to go to homes quicker and cost less overall. if you box clever with it then you may even be able to make a dent in your costs of keeping them. which would be a great thing for the kids to get a handle on too.

its not like corn snakes are the only hardy species. some of the king snakes sound very sturdy and easy but have more desirability. perhaps something like the variable king snakes, would make the hatchings even more fun too. or perhaps some of the other north american rats, like the everglades for example. depending on your house you might get on well with something like the antaresia family. 
its just worth broadening your search to see if there is a better fit. another species may not necessarily be more valuable, but if its more desirable then at least you will have better luck moving them on to sensible homes.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

spigotbush said:


> its great to have the kids involved with it all, no argument there. and i dont think anyone actually said you would be incapable of caring for them. its just that the approach is very much likely to turn into a costly and long winded affair and sting you in the butt. which in turn would be stressful and not much fun for the kids to have the experience of getting bogged down with a load of unwanted animals.
> if you spend very little to get the animals then that should give you a clue as to what the market is like. pet shops already have more than they need so easy sales will be hard. you are likely to end up being forced into selling indiscriminately and for practically nothing just to try and make space and stop spending out.
> on the other hand you could look into more desirable species. sure they may cost a little more to buy in the first place, but they will be more likely to go to homes quicker and cost less overall. if you box clever with it then you may even be able to make a dent in your costs of keeping them. which would be a great thing for the kids to get a handle on too.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily.
Antaresia pythons can be a PITA to get feeding as hatchlings. Granted they're a doddle once they start feeding, it's starting them feeding that's the hard part.
Some of the rarer snakes in the hobby that you'd think would sell are surprisingly disappointing to move. For example, CPR recently had a normal male San Diego Gopher snake, het for red. They'd had it from a '20 hatchling until I bought it last week.
A few years ago I bred het for albino Coastal Rosy boas- I had to practically give the babies away, even the albinos.


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## mick g (Nov 10, 2008)

Just a quick one with regards to the comments "corn snakes lay 20 eggs and double clutch". You can incubate 2 of the eggs and freeze the rest. This way you can enjoy the whole breeding experience and not be left with lots of hatchlings to care for. 😊


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

mick g said:


> Just a quick one with regards to the comments "corn snakes lay 20 eggs and double clutch". You can incubate 2 of the eggs and freeze the rest. This way you can enjoy the whole breeding experience and not be left with lots of hatchlings to care for. 😊


 or why not just throw the rest in the bin.... but what does that teach the children about the ethics of breeding snakes ...and if you are going to dispose of 98% of the clutch then why breed in the first place. Also if they breed morphs you have no way of knowing if you are disposing eggs that are the more desirable combination and retaining basic wild "normal" corns.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mick g said:


> Just a quick one with regards to the comments "corn snakes lay 20 eggs and double clutch". You can incubate 2 of the eggs and freeze the rest. This way you can enjoy the whole breeding experience and not be left with lots of hatchlings to care for. 😊


Again, pointless. The female is put at a lot of risk from breeding.
I see no point in breeding and putting the female at risk to then bin most or all of the eggs.


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## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

wilkinss77 said:


> Not necessarily.....


absolutely true. i havent had any experience with them, or most species, so i am simply going from fairly light reading. but that is why its worth researching other species. i just threw out a couple of examples that seemed to be on the easier end of the spectrum, not necessarily recommendations. some species that seem hard might be great for the OP's situation. for example my house is pretty well suited for cooler/montane forest reptiles but would be a pain the butt to maintain full desert species. its just worth looking around for a good fit.
its also true that it seems some of the rarer species dont command high prices or quick movement. some species i have looked at in the past have come up surprisingly cheap compared to what i would expect. but that is where good research comes into play. go through the care and see if they fit then, if you intend to sell, go and speak to pet shops/other breeders and see if that side fits too. there was a time i was going to get a mate for my own corn snake but after looking at the prices and numbers available throughout the year i shut that idea down pretty fast.

as for the egg disposal. i would rather freeze eggs than hatch them out knowing that i would be over capacity. its clearly better not to breed than to go through the whole process for nothing, but you cant always account for double clutching, or clutches from last years pairing. so if you know it would be over capacity i would prefer them not to start in the first place and give the female the next year off.
all the points being raised here are why i havent engaged in any breeding yet myself. in my opinion its not something to just dive into. it should always be a carefully considered thing in my opinion. honestly the idea of being overwhelmed by babies and long term care is what scares me off.


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

ian14 said:


> No it's not. At all.
> You want to breed snakes "for fun"
> A species that can easily produce 20+ eggs per clutch. And is known to double clutch.
> Living costs are leaping upwards. Which means that disposable income is plummeting.
> ...



whether it’s to produce morphs, breed a species we haven’t bred before or whatever the only reason any of us on this forum breed is ‘for fun’. 
Even without pairing a female corn can produce slugs, and could still get egg bound. If the husbandry is right and the OP seems to be a responsible keeper no reason it should be an issue. 
If the OP were to adopt a pair of corns from a rescue, breed them an incubator only 4 eggs I think would be a fantastic little project


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## Saladmander (12 mo ago)

StuG said:


> whether it’s to produce morphs, breed a species we haven’t bred before or whatever the only reason any of us on this forum breed is ‘for fun’.
> Even without pairing a female corn can produce slugs, and could still get egg bound. If the husbandry is right and the OP seems to be a responsible keeper no reason it should be an issue.
> If the OP were to adopt a pair of corns from a rescue, breed them an incubator only 4 eggs I think would be a fantastic little project


Are there no moral qualms about taking in rescue animals to produce more animals?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Read the OP's opening post.


Oooops 


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Saladmander said:


> Are there no moral qualms about taking in rescue animals to produce more animals?


Not for me in this hypothetical situation. If you can provide a suitable home for the duration of their life, and can house the 2,3,4 hatchlings you produce until you find suitable homes what is the issue? 
Many snakes end up in rescues because people can’t be arsed to sell or re-home them, there is still plenty of demand. 
If you are morally comfortable with keeping and breeding reptiles in captivity in general it’s difficult to be too critical of others without being hypocritical


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

I have a question - can you house, feed and care for 20+ corn snakes for 20+ years?
If the answer is no, what are your plans for them? Will you just let anyone have one, be giving them away for free if no-one buys them? Or will you be asking buyers many questions and answer theirs before deciding if you feel they're suitable keepers?

If using to educate your children, then being responsible must be a huge part of that. This includes having a reptile savy vet, preferably getting the snakes checked before breeding and being aware of the costs of treatment if needed. 

Worth remembering that children soon become bored of today's fun and want something else tomorrow 😉


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Elly66 said:


> I have a question - can you house, feed and care for 20+ corn snakes for 20+ years?
> If the answer is no, what are your plans for them? Will you just let anyone have one, be giving them away for free if no-one buys them? Or will you be asking buyers many questions and answer theirs before deciding if you feel they're suitable keepers?
> 
> If using to educate your children, then being responsible must be a huge part of that. This includes having a reptile savy vet, preferably getting the snakes checked before breeding and being aware of the costs of treatment if needed.
> ...


can you give me one example of when anyone has ever had to keep a whole clutch of hatchlings for 20 years? It’s never happened.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Interesting in that even though the OP has been on the forum since 2007, and was active 7 hours ago, they haven't posted on this thread in two days.... wonder if it was something we said


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

StuG said:


> can you give me one example of when anyone has ever had to keep a whole clutch of hatchlings for 20 years? It’s never happened.


I've not had much interaction with reptile breeding/breeders. However, these are the questions I'd ask myself when breeding any animal ( Yes, I've bred animals).

How many have just given away snakes or sold them cheaply without checking the new owner is aware of their care needs? Times are changing, especially with the current cost of living rises. Surely we should support/encourage responsible breeding, even more so when educating children?


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Elly66 said:


> I've not had much interaction with reptile breeding/breeders. However, these are the questions I'd ask myself when breeding any animal ( Yes, I've bred animals).
> 
> How many have just given away snakes or sold them cheaply without checking the new owner is aware of their care needs? Times are changing, especially with the current cost of living rises. Surely we should support/encourage responsible breeding, even more so when educating children?


The guy said he’s been keeping and breeding leopard gecko’s for 20 odd years, I’m sure he’s considered what he’ll do with the offspring. 
In the vast sea of mass produced reptiles a guy breeding a pair of corns to educate and entertain his kids isn’t gonna make a drop of difference


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

StuG said:


> The guy said he’s been keeping and breeding leopard gecko’s for 20 odd years, I’m sure he’s considered what he’ll do with the offspring.
> In the vast sea of mass produced reptiles a guy breeding a pair of corns to educate and entertain his kids isn’t gonna make a drop of difference


Yet, if we all take that attitude it does


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## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

I've not read many comments so apologies if I've missed something.
In regards to corn snakes yes they are cheap and breed easily, however speaking from personal expierence due to the amount of eggs they can lay you can soon have a lot of babies on your hands.
Now if you're prepared fully to deal with all the babies that cone and be aware that they probably won't sell right away then thats fine. There are so many different patterns and colour variations for corn snakes. I have also heard hognose snakes can be just as easy, bit more pricey usually and from my understanding the babies can be a bit harder to care for (only ever had 1 hognose and purchased as an adult). 

Ultimately speaking yes corns are cheap and easy to breed. Key question is are you prepared to care for 20-60 babies (depending how many adults you breed) if you are then go for it, all I ever suggest people do when breeding is do it responsibly. I'm sure as you have over 20 years of breeding geckos youre probably aware of how it is selling aninals and wouldn't overbreed. Best of luck


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