# can i have a list of lizards that don't need uvb



## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

as above i know the common ones eg leopard gecko but i'd like a complete list please :2thumb:


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

a complete list, that's hundreds if not thousands of species........

pretty much any reptile with is considered nocturnal do not NEED uvb


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## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

thanks, forgot to add that i didn't want sarky comments or unhelpful ones and obviously only those available in the uk pet trade


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## liam.b (Sep 2, 2006)

spend_day said:


> a complete list, that's hundreds if not thousands of species........
> 
> pretty much any reptile with is considered nocturnal do not NEED uvb


but then most people do it just to save money.....and some reps that dont need uv will be more expensive than the ones that do so not saving money at all.....but yeah theres loads...ermm tokays are a good one =] haha


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

Exotic Mad said:


> thanks, forgot to add that i didn't want sarky comments or unhelpful ones and obviously only those available in the uk pet trade


LOL we do sarky good here :crazy:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

liam.b said:


> but then most people do it just to save money.....and some reps that dont need uv will be more expensive than the ones that do so not saving money at all.....but yeah theres loads...ermm tokays are a good one =] haha


And there's some evidence that juvenile tokays DO need access to UVB in order to thrive.

My general take on it is:

If it's diurnal it *needs *UVB.
If it's crepuscular, low-level UVB during the day probably won't do it any harm, but there should be no UVB at night.
If it's crepuscular AND albino, I would avoid UVB.


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## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

i have read quite a few articles looking at the damage uvb can do to nocturnal lizards eyes but some use it and some don't. tokays are very pretty and i'm not looking to it to save money i'm looking at filling my uvb and non uvb vivs


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Exotic Mad said:


> thanks, forgot to add that i didn't want sarky comments or unhelpful ones and obviously only those available in the uk pet trade


I wouldnt consider my comments sarky or unhelpful, I was merely pointing out the scale of what you were asking and I did say nocturnal species generally dont need UVB.


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## ollie1 (Oct 13, 2009)

So would you recomend UVB for my Leos?


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Exotic Mad said:


> i have read quite a few articles looking at the damage uvb can do to nocturnal lizards eyes but some use it and some don't. tokays are very pretty and i'm not looking to it to save money i'm looking at filling my uvb and non uvb vivs


usually thats only when high levels of UVB are provided with no or inadequate retreats or cover from the light.



ollie1 said:


> So would you recomend UVB for my Leos?


wasn't there some research into leo's and UVB recently something about them using small amount absorbed at dusk and dawn very efficiently 

i'll see if i can dig it up


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## liam.b (Sep 2, 2006)

Exotic Mad said:


> i have read quite a few articles looking at the damage uvb can do to nocturnal lizards eyes but some use it and some don't. tokays are very pretty and i'm not looking to it to save money i'm looking at filling my uvb and non uvb vivs


 tokays are nice to look at, easy to care for, cheap and its easy enough to set up a viv for.

and i did a have a male which i had from a baby without uv and he was nearly 12inches.....so i dont think they suffer that much tbh and my baby now feeds, is growning fine, is nice colours nearly all of the time....so i think its personal choice really.


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Mourning Geckos
Stenodactylus geckos

I've kept both with and without UVB, currently my mourning geckos do have low-level UVB and my Steno's don't but overall I don't think there is much of a benefit to either. It is handy to have a light to see into my mourning geckos vivarium though :lol2:


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## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

[QUOTE

wasn't there some research into leo's and UVB recently something about them using small amount absorbed at dusk and dawn very efficiently 

i'll see if i can dig it up[/QUOTE]

yes i read that one too. a timer for those times would probably be helpful in that case


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## jamestheball (Apr 28, 2009)

All reps should have access to uva/uvb even if its only a 2.0 for a couple of hours a day. Theres some evidence around saying that reptiles need uva to see properly. Even though you can keep leos alive just using supplments, how would you like to be kept in a room with no sun and just fed food dusted with nutrients?
Although i would avoid it with albino animals.


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## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

given that i'm not an animal who sleeps all day i wouldn't like it much lol


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

i aren't getting into another uvb debate so i shall simply tell you what i have learned over my time keeping nocturnal reps
as most nocturnal geckos acctually come out at dusk and dawn i provide mine with 1-2 hours 5% uvb in the morning and at night when they would naturally come out, as in the wild they would be subjected to the same amount of uvb and their skin is 10x more receptive to uvb so they absorbe and proccess it better.

as for suggestions,
most commonly kept or available in pet stores is quite limited but you can get a whole veriaty from the classifieds section or from breeders, but pet stores usually stock or can aquire easily,

Tokays (YAY GET A TOKAY)
crestys
gargoyls
fan foots
flying
marble
golden
leo's (obviously)

These are the most commonly seen geckos, in my area anyway, 
and bredrun is right we are awesome at sarcy, let us know when your ready and well fire some beauty's out lmfao


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Exotic Mad said:


> > wasn't there some research into leo's and UVB recently something about them using small amount absorbed at dusk and dawn very efficiently
> >
> > i'll see if i can dig it up
> 
> ...


it was done using previously shed skin and not the actual leo's ~ more information can be found here -> UV Transmission through Reptile Skin Shed
and there's also a previous thread covering a similar topic here -> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/433871-geckos-uvb.html


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

Interesting about the UV but £80 a pop for 4 hours use is very expensive, I do plan to have UV in the vivs for my geckos when they are big enough (but that prob defeats the object considering they need things most when you)....if only i had of know before aqquiring 3 leos.....thats £240 just for the lights!!!


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

I havent read thru this entire post so I apologise if im repeating what may have been said.

There are lots of species that dont access UV due to being nocturnal BUT most vets will agree that its still good to put a very low strength UVB bulb in there anyway as they do benefit from the little bit they do get. Most lizards that are nocturnal will come out in the early evening and catch some then. Youll also find that most nocturnal species have a better UV absorbtion rate than day lizards so the few minutes they get are hugely beneficial


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Breadrun said:


> Interesting about the UV but £80 a pop for 4 hours use is very expensive, I do plan to have UV in the vivs for my geckos when they are big enough (but that prob defeats the object considering they need things most when you)....if only i had of know before aqquiring 3 leos.....thats £240 just for the lights!!!


I'm confused..I guess you don't mean 3 UV tubes costs £240...what costs £240!?!:lol2:


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

Breadrun said:


> Interesting about the UV but £80 a pop for 4 hours use is very expensive, I do plan to have UV in the vivs for my geckos when they are big enough (but that prob defeats the object considering they need things most when you)....if only i had of know before aqquiring 3 leos.....thats £240 just for the lights!!!


 At the end of the day it's personnal choice mate you don't need them with the correct suppliments and stuff and as you say it can be a dear do when buying all the lighting but it is something i have bought when i bought the viv so i don't really notice the price as i budget into the viv cost. you can still do it without the cost though,
when i got my first reps 15yrs ago they didn't have spetialist reptile equiptment so readily available so my first leo was in a 2ft fish tank with a 5% aquarium tube and starter sat ontop of it, i had to do all my reserch in librarys then as google was a pipe dream lol, i researched for 2 years before i sneakily bought a leo and a corn snake and hid them in my room, two fishtanks under the bed isn't very discreet but it was worth it and as i have gained more experience and knowledge through reading up on their natural habitats i simply imitate their natural habitat as much as humanly possible (and safest for the gecko too as i know they don't live on lino in the wild LMFAO)


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

joeyboy said:


> I'm confused..I guess you don't mean 3 UV tubes costs £240...what costs £240!?!:lol2:


hmmmmm i calculated at £80 for the lights when i mean £40.....so half of that is right  lol


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

ginnerone said:


> At the end of the day it's personnal choice mate you don't need them with the correct suppliments and stuff and as you say it can be a dear do when buying all the lighting but it is something i have bought when i bought the viv so i don't really notice the price as i budget into the viv cost. you can still do it without the cost though,
> when i got my first reps 15yrs ago they didn't have spetialist reptile equiptment so readily available so my first leo was in a 2ft fish tank with a 5% aquarium tube and starter sat ontop of it, i had to do all my reserch in librarys then as google was a pipe dream lol, i researched for 2 years before i sneakily bought a leo and a corn snake and hid them in my room, two fishtanks under the bed isn't very discreet but it was worth it and as i have gained more experience and knowledge through reading up on their natural habitats i simply imitate their natural habitat as much as humanly possible (and safest for the gecko too as *i know they don't live on lino in the wild* LMFAO)


I have my beardies on lino :blush: lol

Speaking of sustrate i had a brain wave earlier (prob cant do it but have to ask to find out).....could a beardie live on grass? like if you bought a greass roll and laid it on the bottom of the viv (of course you would have to waterproof the bottom of viv but that wouldnt be a problem, also grass might be ok for beardies (they might start producing milk if eaten), sorry to hijack this thread.....feel free to PM me your thoughts:2thumb:


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Breadrun said:


> Interesting about the UV but £80 a pop for 4 hours use is very expensive, I do plan to have UV in the vivs for my geckos when they are big enough (but that prob defeats the object considering they need things most when you)....if only i had of know before aqquiring 3 leos.....thats £240 just for the lights!!!


your paying £80 a bulb?........ mate your getting had


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

no thats what i calculated...i said i got it wrong....£20 for bulb...£20 for ballast = £40


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## tomsam (Sep 26, 2009)

if you cant afford to set ya viv up prop then you shouldn't bother at all. all our vivs cost a fortune but we aint shouting about it and if we couldn't provide what the rep needed we wouldn't have them.believe they all need uv wether it be for a few hours or very low.


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

well I have already pointed out where i was wrong but lets face it, most of us think that leos and nocturnal reptiles dont need UV light so its not really something major, if i was getting a beardie then obviously i would get everything which was needed like a UV but because alot of people suggest no UV then obviously i didnt get one


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Breadrun said:


> well I have already pointed out where i was wrong but lets face it, *most of us think that leos and nocturnal reptiles dont need UV light so its not really something major*, if i was getting a beardie then obviously i would get everything which was needed like a UV but because alot of people suggest no UV then obviously i didnt get one


uv for leo's is *not* a necessity however correct supplementation *is* and people should not attempt to make you feel as if you are only providing second-rate care because you don't use uv for nocturnal species ............ and this includes the 'anonymous' cretin who decided it was clever to send me an abusive 'temp' email regarding my stance on uv ~ sorry mate but you forgot to hide your originating ip address and yes I have reported it to your provider :devil:


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Pictus geckos!!!!

and stenos!!!!

I keep both and theyre great little pocket sized monsters, a little like pokemon but without the flame breath and vibrant colours.:2thumb:


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

Thank you sleepyD, i feel much better now lol, because i have learnt it is something which in the future i will do, I do however use the right supplements so i know im doing right : victory:



SleepyD said:


> uv for leo's is *not* a necessity however correct supplementation *is* and people should not attempt to make you feel as if you are only providing second-rate care because you don't use uv for nocturnal species ............ and this includes the 'anonymous' cretin who decided it was clever to send me an abusive 'temp' email regarding my stance on uv ~ sorry mate but you forgot to hide your originating ip address and yes I have reported it to your provider :devil:


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

SleepyD said:


> uv for leo's is *not* a necessity however correct supplementation *is* and people should not attempt to make you feel as if you are only providing second-rate care because you don't use uv for nocturnal species ............ and this includes the 'anonymous' cretin who decided it was clever to send me an abusive 'temp' email regarding my stance on uv ~ sorry mate but you forgot to hide your originating ip address and yes I have reported it to your provider :devil:


 AGREED, this is a personnal choice as i stated in one of my earlier posts, if your using UVB and still supplimenting with calcium and nutribol then i'm afraid it is you that is at fault, if you using UVB you need to lower the amount of calcium intake to everyother day, UVB it is not a substitute or a must it is a meet in the middle of captivity and natural habitat, i don't use UVB with my tokays (apart from babies) as i didn't see any noticable improvments over the space of a year but did with my leo's which is why i use it but ultimatly it is pesonal choice and you shouldn't be making people feel like inferior keeper just because they don't do the same as you. It is comments like yours that has made an influx of people PM me asking if it is safe to use UVB with certain species of gecko, i have had 8 PM's through comments like yours confusing people. IT IS PERSONAL CHOICE, THEY DON'T NEED IT WITH CORRECT SUPPLIMENTS, sleepyD doesn't use UVB and hers look very healthy, look at her web page as i have done, they are superb, i DO use uvb and mine are equally as healthy but i use less supliments due to a couple of hours UVB exposure a day, so whats the difference between the two, NONE different methods, same results, there for in conclusion the answer must simply be personal choice.


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

hehe everyone jump to my defence....i like it


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## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

I was trying to stay away from this thread, but once again ginnerone, you've drawn me in....



ginnerone said:


> if your using UVB and still supplimenting with calcium and nutribol then i'm afraid it is you that is at fault


Please explain?
I cannot for the life of me see how someone is at fault if they are providing UVB and supplementing the diet.



ginnerone said:


> if you using UVB you need to lower the amount of calcium intake to everyother day


Why exactly?
UVB exposure does not result in calcium production. It results in the biosynthesis of vitamin D3 which in turn, controls calcium absorption in the gut. How is providing less calcium going to do anything of benefit?



ginnerone said:


> It is comments like yours that has made an influx of people PM me asking if it is safe to use UVB with certain species of gecko, i have had 8 PM's through comments like yours confusing people.


Who was that aimed at?



ginnerone said:


> sleepyD doesn't use UVB and hers look very healthy, look at her web page as i have done, they are superb, i DO use uvb and mine are equally as healthy but i use less supliments due to a couple of hours UVB exposure a day, so whats the difference between the two, NONE different methods, *same results, there for in conclusion the answer must simply be personal choice.*


A very simplistic point of view.
How are you assessing the health of the animals? Just by looking at photos? Mel will know that I am in no way implying her animals are anything less than 100% healthy, but without scientific analysis, no conclusion can be drawn....not matter how simple.

At the end of the day, it is personal choice whether to use UVB or not. However, to claim that there is absolutely no difference in the health of the animals just from comparing photos is ludicrous.


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## tomsam (Sep 26, 2009)

dont know anything about geckos dont keep them. my point being is you should provide everything they need and hey not everyone will agree on things. but breadrun dont think people were defending you just saying what they believe in. we all do things differently so best to just agree to disagree


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

well from where im standing i am providing them with everything they need, its rather like a vegeatarian family feeding there kids vegetables.....some will say its better some will say they need meat....go figure


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

James d,
ok, i'm not suggesting removing calcium completley but lowering it as you said uvb helps with the production of VD3 which inturn proccess the calcium better therefore they don't need as much, i had to lower their calcium intake as they began to develop oversized calcium sacks years ago and became lethargic (this was years ago when i first started testing with it) so fisrtly i removed the UVB and they were fine which confused me as all the books i had read say they utilise the uvb at dusk and dawn so i tried it again with lower calcium and noticed improvments in feeding and activity, uva may also have contributed to this. this is basically what i have done over the years using trial and error starting in 1994 up until about 98 when i got what i feel to be optimimum time exposure, distance from light source, suppliment levels etc.
All this has been done with Leo's and Tokays but strangley i saw no significant improvments with Tokays apart from babies who seem to benefit from slightly faster growth but no benefit for adults so i don't use uvb with adult tokays.
I was using sleepy's as an example only, i had two tanks set up and monitored them over several months one with and one without and simply kept a record of improvments etc on each tank as this was in 94 there wasn't any info (that i could find) on the UVB debate but i read conflicting comments in several books about how they didn't need it due to being nocturnal but the page before stated they came out at dusk and bathed in the fading light before feeding so i thought i would experiment to find the best method.

and the post wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at the posted that tried to make people feel bad for NOT using UVB, and since 10am this morning i have had 8 PM's asking if it's safe or not. 

Now after writing all this i can't remember the other questions you asked as i forgot to quote your post lol.


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