# My goldfish, something wrong??



## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi I have a few goldfish and saw this on one of my bigger ones today, what is it? Is there something wrong. Had them for about four years and they've been absolutely fine. 

Please help. Regards. 


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

It's that black stuff. It's in it's fins and all over it's belly. Also how do you know if their male or female??


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

what size tank are they in? 
what filtration? 
what fish are in there altogether? 
what are your readings for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

It's a 2 foot fluvel tank with an internal filter. Don't know the make. Never done water readings, there's never been a problem with any of my goldfish at all. The tank is always clean and all there is in there is 4 gold fish and a ghost shrimp. One of my little ones has shed it's scales and is now almost completely white. But just wondering if anyone knows what the black stuff could be? And if it's dying. 


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

2 ft tank internal filter. Never done any water readings. Tank always clean never had a problem with any of them at all. One little one shed almost all it's scales straight away and is almost completely white now.
4 goldfish and a ghost shrimp.
Just wondered if anyone knows if he's ok or dying.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

well, im wondering if it could be ammonia burn. that tank is far too small to house goldfish unfortunately looking at the shape of your fish they are already stunted in growth. the water will get out of whack fairly fast with messy fish such as goldfish in a small amount of water. how often do you carry out partial water changes and do you use dechlorinator on your tap water before adding it to the tank?


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

I do use that drops stuff for the water and do about to full jug fills change every week when I do my turtles. The tanks defiantly big enough. I got ten off someone else so the growth might be because they had them in a washing up bowl most of their life. 


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Ace_ttl said:


> The tanks defiantly big enough.


No it's not. And jug fulls aren't water changes. 

Take a sample into your LFS and get them to test it, and come back here with the results.


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Really. I take 2 or three big jug fulls out and put the same back in, clean and drop treated. Bobs your uncle. There only goldfish. I thought goldfish were the best and could live in anythings, so I thought its clean like, better than a dirty pond. I don't get it. 


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Ace_ttl said:


> Really. I take 2 or three big jug fulls out and put the same back in, clean and drop treated. Bobs your uncle. There only goldfish. I thought goldfish were the best and could live in anythings, so I thought its clean like, better than a dirty pond. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using crazy mind control!


Let's say each jug is a good 2L, 3 jugs is 6L. On a 50L tank (2ft tank, depending on other dimensions) that's 12% weekly, which for messy goldfish isn't enough really, 20-25% ideally. In a pond they have a massive volume to dilute their waste... although you might think it looks "dirty" or whatever. 

Goldfish are not "only goldfish", they're living animals and should be kept properly. They will grow to ~1ft long or so, and live 20/30/40 years if kept correctly. No way yours will reach any of these limits. 

Take some water to a fish shop. Get it tested. Come back here with the results.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Tank is no where near big enough.

Personally, I think around the 600 litre mark is a good size for keeping 4-5 goldfish, so I would say you need to double your tank size.


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok mate. Enough of the attitude. They would have been going into the pond but as my turtles are going to be inhabiting that, they won't be. They're not that big yano. Only small compared to the 2 ft tank. Lots of space to grow. I will sort out a water sample thing at some point. Just been moving house so everything's all up in arms at the moment. No time for anything. 


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

No attitude from anyone. 

Your asking for help and people have found major flaws in the way your keeping them!!!!

Take the advice on board, get the water sorted and either get a new tank or re home the fish.


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## benh (Sep 12, 2011)

Ace_ttl said:


> Ok mate. Enough of the attitude. They would have been going into the pond but as my turtles are going to be inhabiting that, they won't be. They're not that big yano. Only small compared to the 2 ft tank. Lots of space to grow. I will sort out a water sample thing at some point. Just been moving house so everything's all up in arms at the moment. No time for anything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using crazy mind control!


Goldfish will easily outswim/outgrow a musk, let them share the pond?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

although i hate the idea of fish with turtles (the pollution side of it more than anything as the turtles can be so messy and can also escape the water whereas the fish cant) these fish need a bigger home. the water volume is too small for such potentially large messy fish. no, they will never grow to their full potential now, they will have shortened life expectancy due to the growth stunting but if given good care,diet and good water quality from now on, they can catch up a little on growth. these are potentially large, fast, messy fish given proper care, and just because in the past they were kept in even less suitable conditions doesnt make it right that you continue to house them in poor conditions. please consider rehoming these fish to a suitable (most likely pond) home now the weathers warming up a bit if you cant/wont invest in more suitable housing for the little guys :2thumb: oh and just because a pond has murky looking water instead of the crystal clear tank water doesnt make it dirty, its down to the chemicals in the water rather than how clear it is. a well filtered pond in a garden with debris falling in now and again wont be as clear as a covered aquarium inside, but with the larger water volume and a decent filter the fish will still thrive.


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## JoPwerks (Mar 15, 2012)

I have to agree, my goldfish has done amazing in the outside pond. Transferred him over a few years ago and he's gone huge, loving it out there, never have to worry about him.

But like you say you are putting your musks out there and maybe that would be a threat to them. There are loads of people who keep fish with their turtles and don't have any problems but personally I wouldn't risk it with mine. 

But I have a mississippi map who attacks anything that goes in with him.

It's your choice, do what you feel is right :2thumb:


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm putting my sliders and cooter I. The pond. So goldfish just wouldn't stand a chance. 


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

I have got a large tank and therms will be going in it. When the pond is sorted so all is well. 


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## JoPwerks (Mar 15, 2012)

Ace_ttl said:


> I'm putting my sliders and cooter I. The pond. So goldfish just wouldn't stand a chance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using crazy mind control!


I totally agree : victory:


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

echoing everything on here so far... 

Also: depending where you are in the world please look into laws surrounding letting your turtles live 'free'... for instance in England its illegal to let your terrapins free. 

Secondly: Im actually a little disapointed in you 'it's just a fish' attitude. EVERY living creature has the right to dignity, respect, and the best care possible by human beings. Fish are suprisingly intelligent (despite the old wives tale about memory).. they think, they feel, they learn. 

To put it into perspective about how the chemicals in your tank MAY be wrong... would you like to live in a bathtub of your own urine and faeces? Could you breathe that filth in all day every day and enjoy it? Because thats essentially what a tank with poor water and too little space is - the equivalent of us living in a bath tub of our own doings...

Sorry it comes across as really harsh there but one of my pet hates is the 'it's just an animal' attitude towards life.


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## AmyHerbXOXO (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm not sure if this is true as it came from an unreliable source - the petshop, but I'll say anyway because it may help you, I have 4 goldfish there in a VERY large tank, I started of with two and they kept rubbing themselves onto each other? And a one of my fish's scales turned black near the fins too, so I took it back to the petshop as I thought maybe it could be ill? However the owner of the petshop told me it was just them mating fiercely...not sure if it's true, they could just be fighting, or you have a bully fish?:bash:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ive never known any goldfish, common or fancy, bully another fish unless they are kept in too smaller confines with stresses such as poor water quality.


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Frostpaw said:


> echoing everything on here so far...
> 
> Also: depending where you are in the world please look into laws surrounding letting your turtles live 'free'... for instance in England its illegal to let your terrapins free.
> 
> ...


I don't have this attitude at all. My fish are small in comparison to the tank they are in and it is very clean. I was just worried about the water quality as I have just moved house. I have now got some more water drop and am doing regular water changes to see if this is better. I love all my animals, so dont you dare even say I don't care about them. I see to my animals every day and make sure they are ok every night before I go to bed. Not everyone's perfect so keep the insults to yourself. 


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

Ace_ttl said:


> Really. I take 2 or three big jug fulls out and put the same back in, clean and drop treated. Bobs your uncle. There only goldfish. I thought goldfish were the best and could live in anythings, so I thought its clean like, better than a dirty pond. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Under the tap, is that wrong?


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

And squeeze it until clear. 


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## benh (Sep 12, 2011)

Ace_ttl said:


> Under the tap, is that wrong?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using crazy mind control!


Sadly, yes. The chlorine in the tap water will kill the bacteria thats built up on the sponge. Ijn future, the sponge should need nothing more than a slosh around in the water you are removing from the tank, maybe a squeeze to remove any larger debris.

I would still say move them to a lrger tank asap, although obviously now you mention cooters and sliders, I no longer suggest letting them share your pond.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

only gently squeeze the filter media out in old tank water, never use tap water. your fish are 'small in comparison to their tank' as they need a larger tank which holds more water to be able to grow healthily. they will never grow large enough to warrant a new bigger tank if kept in a small tank, this in turn will shorten their lives aswell. if you do care for your fish, you need to listen to the advice given here by everyone and upgrade asap. nobody is having a go at you, we all just care for our fish and try to encourage the best situations to keep these big beautiful creatures. the longer they remain in the smaller tank, the more damage is done sadly. the type of fish you have are ideally pond fish, they need a large body of water and good filter to dilute their wastes, and a lot of room to be able to swim fast as they like to do. i have a 13inch goldfish in my pond right now, and she really motors around in there clearing the 11ft length in just a few tail flicks. your fish should be attaining similar sizes, which they wont do now due to previous stunting but they can make up some growth if things are changed for them :2thumb:


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Your clearly immature

Where are people "insulting" you?

To sum up..... all people have said is they need to be moved into a bigger tank, and when your saying the water is clear and good etc... Clearly it aint if your re-cycling the tank everytime you clean the filter......

This is all VERY basic stuff

There are loads of good goldfish care sheets that you should read through that will give you all the information that you require.

Everyone has to start somewhere, but when people give you advice you basically try and fight your way out of taking it.

:war:


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

I'm afraid to say the tank size does need sorting out soon as you can do it. 

But I think your current problem is defo the filter sponge. When you're cleaning it, just use your same water change jug and do it at the same time as a water change. Squish the sponge out in the jug full of old tank water, then just pour the muck away. Don't worry about getting it totally clean, totally clean would mean you've washed all the bacteria off. Dirty brown is actually a good colour for a filter sponge to be! As long as it's not slimy too.

You're probably giving the fish ammonia poisoning like they'd get from an uncycled tank. Sort that problem out, and you buy yourself time to upgrade. Probably worth considering getting an external filter now, that'll buy you a bit more time for them in this tank too. Got one for sale on the classifieds if you want to save cash  

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/aquatics-classifieds/839860-few-fish-tanks-sale-including.html


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

Just to add to the above, the reason why you dont run it under a tap:


When ammonia builds up in the tank the levels of a special bacteria also grow, these bacteria 'eat' the ammonia and turn it into nitrite. Once the nitrite builds up a second type of bacteria starts to grow... these then 'eat' the nitrite producing nitrate. which is harmless to fish.

ammonia = eaten by bacteria 1 = releases Nitrite = eaten by bacteria 2 = releases Nitrate = safe water.

So each time you run that sponge under a tap you kill all the bacteria so the cycle has to begin again.


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## geetarman (Apr 3, 2012)

Worth mentioning Nitrate isn't harmless to fish you still need to keep it in check by carrying out decent sized water changes to dilute the Nitrate levels to a safe level :2thumb:

Which is why you need a test kit to ensure your filters working and your water changes are enough.


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh I didn't know that about the sponge. I will change this ASAP. I will be upgrading soon and I will also do another pond in my garden next to the turtles as everyone has said a pond is best. Many thanks and apologies for the hostility. I am not immature I just didn't know all of this.

Thanks. 


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

good luck. 

You can get a good test kit from www.zooplus.com

They do free delivery and 10% off first orders. That way it saves constant trips to the pet shop and they last quite a long time.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Ace_ttl said:


> I am not immature I just didn't know all of this.


Indeed! So don't get uppity when people are trying to help you : victory:

This is why we ask the questions. Do some large water changes, and get that water tested asap! Almost certainly has ammonia in.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Hows your goldie doing now?


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## Ace_ttl (Jul 31, 2011)

They seem allot happier now. They're in a four ft now that the turtle was in and the turtle is in the inside pond. Then when I finish the outside pond the turts can go outside and the goldfish can go in the pond which I will dig into the ground outside. Thanks. 


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