# bio-active substrates for arid species



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

has anyone tried this for there bearded dragon or leopard gecko before and if so how did you go about doing it?

iv been in touch with someone about this and just waiting for a reply but was just wondering if theres anyone there with this setup for there for there arid reptiles: victory:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Should be pritty easy, sand, soil and a few woodlice and other arid loving inverts. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> Should be pritty easy, sand, soil and a few woodlice and other arid loving inverts.
> 
> jay


so would it just be a case of a lot more sand in the mix than a rainforest dwelling animal? 
i was just thinking about the the beasties that would live in it. i assume the likes of tropical springtails and tropical woodlice wouldnt survive to well in there then. if not what type of bugs would be best suited for it?

cheers


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> Should be pritty easy, sand, soil and a few *woodlice and other arid loving inverts*.
> 
> jay



A region is said to be arid when it is characterized by a severe lack of available water(wiki definition) u sure woodlice that need water to survive would really enjoy a lack of it?might be able to get away with springtails, but all the usual custodian bugs need a fair bit of moisture in my experience anyways.

dartfrog sells firebrats these need high temps not sure what there diet consists of might be worth looking it up?


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

sambridge15 said:


> A region is said to be arid when it is characterized by a severe lack of available water(wiki definition) u sure woodlice that need water to survive would really enjoy a lack of it?
> 
> dartfrog sells firebrats these need high temps not sure what there diet consists of might be worth looking it up


Woodlice are one of the few inverts i know of that can surrive in arid loving conidition (though a certain type, not tropical ones), so long as something like a branch is kept damp under it. if you keep the inder side of a log damp it will provide a place for the woodlice to breed. they will then rummage around the rest of the viv. 

I dont know of any others though. 

Substrate wise i would say mainly sand with a little bit of soil for structure. 


jay

tropical


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

sambridge15 said:


> A region is said to be arid when it is characterized by a severe lack of available water(wiki definition) u sure woodlice that need water to survive would really enjoy a lack of it?
> 
> dartfrog sells firebrats these need high temps not sure what there diet consists of might be worth looking it up


 
cheers for that sam i will : victory:


edit: cheers aswell jay ill have a more in depth look later once the my daughter is snoozing lol


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> Woodlice are one of the few inverts i know of that can surrive in arid loving conidition (though a certain type, not tropical ones), so long as something like a branch is kept damp under it. if you keep the inder side of a log damp it will provide a place for the woodlice to breed. they will then rummage around the rest of the viv.
> 
> I dont know of any others though.
> 
> ...



:whistling2:under a damp branch isnt arid conditions :lol2: i dont think with currently available custodian bugs this is going to be possible,im sure a very small population could be maintained under a damp branch but enough to clean up after a bearded dragon or leo seems unlikely 


out of curiosity what species of woodlice are we speaking about jay?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

sambridge15 said:


> :whistling2:under a damp branch isnt arid conditions :lol2: i dont think with currently available custodian bugs this is going to be possible,im sure a very small population could be maintained under a damp branch but enough to clean up after a bearded dragon or leo seems unlikely
> 
> 
> out of curiosity what species of woodlice are we speaking about jay?


 
well im not to worried about my beardie poop as he will only poop in his bath really and even if he did i still wouldnt just let it sit for the bugs id clean it up there and then i couldnt live with the smell of it lol


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm with Sam on this one. I don't know of any currently available (in UK) insect species that are up to this task. They are all require too much humidity...

Andy


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

sambridge15 said:


> :whistling2:under a damp branch isnt arid conditions :lol2: i dont think with currently available custodian bugs this is going to be possible,im sure a very small population could be maintained under a damp branch but enough to clean up after a bearded dragon or leo seems unlikely
> 
> 
> out of curiosity what species of woodlice are we speaking about jay?


many of the european woodlice (Porcellio scaber & Oniscus asellus) live in semi-arid conditions Na_Na_Na_Na just need a damp branch to breed. Though i do agree whenther there would be enougth to clean up after a beardie is debatable. 

Though apparently, there are also arid woodlice, porsellionides pruinous, or so an article is telling me, never heard of them living in capativity though. There were a few more, but i have got time to read the whole article got to work lol. 

for those interested:

http://qspace.qu.edu.qa/bitstream/handle/10576/10184/07-87-7-0015-fulltext.pdf?sequence=4

Only read the abstract though, dont know how useful the rest is. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

GlasgowGecko said:


> I'm with Sam on this one. I don't know of any currently available (in UK) insect species that are up to this task. They are all require too much humidity...
> 
> Andy


things are not sounding too hopeful then. 

to be honest this was my main concern about what if anything (thats easily availible to buy or get a hold off) could live in such conditions that a bearded dragon lives in. i know there will be something but what i do not know.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

GlasgowGecko said:


> I'm with Sam on this one. I don't know of any currently available (in UK) insect species that are up to this task. They are all require too much humidity...
> 
> Andy


I agree, deffently a difficult challange, and one that would involve lots of work, but it would be fun and very interesting. I would say start with a smaller arid species first though.

jay


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

with live tanks becoming so popular im sure sooner or later desert species will become available :2thumb:as for Porcellio scaber & Oniscus asellus they might live in semi arid conditions but there prefered habitat is always very damp,reckon jay might be onto something with the desert woodlouse though just need it to turn up in the hobby


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## OliverW (Dec 8, 2010)

You could try and do some research into the areas bearded dragons are common and look at what kind of inverts live there if any the tricky bit would be getting hold of the bugs.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

sambridge15 said:


> with live tanks becoming so popular im sure sooner or later desert species will become available :2thumb:as for Porcellio scaber & Oniscus asellus they might live in semi arid conditions but there prefered habitat is always very damp,reckon jay might be onto something with the desert woodlouse though just need it to turn up in the hobby


You do know im now going to try and source some porsellionides pruinous, i've got friends with imports coming in from these countries, wonder if i could get some woodlice, hmm. 

Im sure its a breeding project lol. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> You do know im now going to try and source some porsellionides pruinous, i've got friends with imports coming in from these countries, wonder if i could get some woodlice, hmm.
> 
> Im sure its a breeding project lol.
> 
> jay


 
well if you do manage to source them let me know. its something im wanting to try out but obviously only if im able to get the correct beasties to go ahead with it. id also like to get it planted aswell and was thinking about using some of the carex range but iv got loads to try and research before i get that far lol


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> well if you do manage to source them let me know. its something im wanting to try out but obviously only if im able to get the correct beasties to go ahead with it. id also like to get it planted aswell and was thinking about using some of the carex range but iv got loads to try and research before i get that far lol


I wouldn't live plant a beardie enclosure, they will just eat everything lol. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

OliverW said:


> You could try and do some research into the areas bearded dragons are common and look at what kind of inverts live there if any the tricky bit would be getting hold of the bugs.


the only problem with this is getting them from oz as im not sure if there laws would allow it or if its just for reptiles and phibs. but it is worth looking into cheers


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> I wouldn't live plant a beardie enclosure, they will just eat everything lol.
> 
> jay


 
hmmm that is a good point i never thought off that :lol2:


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Are there no other detritivorous bugs that could be used? aside from woodlice


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

imitebmike said:


> Are there no other detritivorous bugs that could be used? aside from woodlice


thats what im going to have to find out iv not had the chance to have a look yet today and to be honest i dont have a clue where to start :lol2:


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Morio worms? Pill bugs? errr.....other....bug...things?  

ALSO i googled it and found some interesting reading xD


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Apart from morios and mealies who I think would be ok I couldnt find anything myself that is available to the UK market. Ive been looking into this for some time


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Oh yeah Ive also experimented with some of the tropical species in spare tanks and the only ones that survived where springtails BUT they didnt survive as in were alive in the soil you had to add water and the soil came back to life unsure if this was eggs or the same ones becoming inactive until you add water but they certainly would clean out up


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

i guess...you could prolly lob some roaches in there too xD my crestie viv has roaches in lieu of woodlice now and it seems to work or them...but i dunno how will roaches will survive in arid conditions...But i am assuming if it can survive a nuclear attack it'll prolly be able to live in dry-lands too xD


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

yeah had a feeling morios and mealies would work but would that be enough to clean a leopard gecko's viv ? i wouldnt be to sure really myself. with the springtails though if your needing to keep them damp then thats when you risk ri's. 

ahhhh its perplexing lol


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

pill bugs are out iv just read this :devil: 
Pill Bugs - Facts About Pill Bugs - Types of Pill Bugs - PestWorldforKids.org

i know its a kiddies thing but its just some facts about them lol


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> yeah had a feeling morios and mealies would work but would that be enough to clean a leopard gecko's viv ? i wouldnt be to sure really myself. with the springtails though if your needing to keep them damp then thats when you risk ri's.
> 
> ahhhh its perplexing lol


Mealies are insane at cleaning. I used to keep and breed Anolis equestris and had them in a huge side opening glass terrarium. It was impossible to get to spot clean the other side and used to mean stripping out everything to clean a poop. I added mealies and the wood was spotless from then on. A small colony of mealies will clear a big poop easily. If you add stuff like GSE to the water you never have to worry about parasites so you get a healthy tank. This is of course more difficult in a desert setup


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Psht, It'll be a nice surprise to wake up with one of them on your face 

i assume that also knocks out pill millipedes though xD


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> Mealies are insane at cleaning. I used to keep and breed Anolis equestris and had them in a huge side opening glass terrarium. It was impossible to get to spot clean the other side and used to mean stripping out everything to clean a poop. I added mealies and the wood was spotless from then on. A small colony of mealies will clear a big poop easily. If you add stuff like GSE to the water you never have to worry about parasites so you get a healthy tank. This is of course more difficult in a desert setup


Hmm, do you keep the Darkling beetles in there too? or do you remove them?


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> Hmm, do you keep the Darkling beetles in there too? or do you remove them?


They all stay and if you dig deep in my soils (Not desert) you find baby mealies/morios leaving them in allows a natural cycle


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Mealies are insane at cleaning. I used to keep and breed Anolis equestris and had them in a huge side opening glass terrarium. It was impossible to get to spot clean the other side and used to mean stripping out everything to clean a poop. I added mealies and the wood was spotless from then on. A small colony of mealies will clear a big poop easily. If you add stuff like GSE to the water you never have to worry about parasites so you get a healthy tank. This is of course more difficult in a desert setup


i didnt actually realise this. i did actually have some in my splendida viv but the wee sob's kept ripping them from ground and eating them lol so not sure if theres many left in there:lol2:


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Hmmm maybe i should add some mealworms to my crestie viv xD they dont dig, but they collectively picked off any woodlice i had :bash:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

imitebmike said:


> Hmm, do you keep the Darkling beetles in there too? or do you remove them?


i have darkling beetles in mine aswell as a couple of mealie beetles aswell.


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

Interesting thread, thanks guys. I have a couple of mealworm about ready to pupate. I know where they are going now! What are the darkling beetle?


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Its the collective name of the adult stage of mealworms/morio worms


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Any ideas if the dermitis bugs/beetles would survive?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Any ideas if the dermitis bugs/beetles would survive?


do you think these would be ok iv herd they can be quite nasty to humans with the stuff the ooze ?


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> Any ideas if the dermitis bugs/beetles would survive?


 
My tropical live substrates have everything in them

dermistan beetles, meal worms, various species of woolice, springtails, milliepedes (tropical and native), roches, fruit beetles, you name it, its in there lol. they all do great. Sprintails and oodlice are what you want really they are the best and clearing fecies and other organic matter closly folowed by mealworms. 

hers a thread on tropical bioactive substrates i wrote a while ago. 
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/planted-vivariums/659337-bio-active-substrates-how-why.html

Im not sure who long mealworms would surrive in an arid set up, but its worth a go. 

Pill bugs are out im afraid as they are a pain in the backside to keep alive. 

jay


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> My tropical live substrates have everything in them
> 
> dermistan beetles, meal worms, various species of woolice, springtails, milliepedes (tropical and native), roches, fruit beetles, you name it, its in there lol. they all do great. Sprintails and oodlice are what you want really they are the best and clearing fecies and other organic matter closly folowed by mealworms.
> 
> ...


I mean in arid. The only thing I dont keep in my forest ones atm are millipedes its something im trying to find out the best to use


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> I mean in arid. The only thing I dont keep in my forest ones atm are millipedes its something im trying to find out the best to use


 
Dermisted beetles wont surrive in arid environments (i've tried that one lol) I also find mealworms dont surrive well in arid conditions either. 

jay


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

trouble is with live vivs you really need detrivores so woodlice, springtails earthworms,some millipieds things that eat dead decaying matter so pose no threat to your plants or inhabitants and actively seek undesirable things such as waste as a food source. iv always found mealworms would rather eat my background or liveplants than have any use breaking down animal waste :devil:i find earth worms, springs and woodlice to be idea at this!

another thing that will be very difficult in an arid viv is maintaining the population .In rainforest vivs we tend to use leaf litter (localy collected) this stuff looks great and is full of other detrivorous life, as well as acting as the perfect culturing media! acting as shelter a micro habitat and a food source :2thumb:i cant think of any material that would work in the same manor in an arid setup.As jay said earlier a damp log is an ideal place for woodlice but this would only sustain a very limited number,would also be difficult to keep damp without effecting humidity


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

so...how would roaches fare? xD or are they too NOMNOM on nice plants + no burrowing = OMG EATEN?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

well going by this link it seems to work well with leopard geckos, but i think it will be a different kettle of fish for a beardie : victory:
Bio-active Substrate | Gecko Time


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

What about dung beetle larvae?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Wolflore said:


> What about dung beetle larvae?


how easy is that to get a hold of though? it could be worth a try : victory:


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> how easy is that to get a hold of though? it could be worth a try : victory:


No idea, I was just pondering what could be cleaning up in the desert. They came to mind. There was a bit on them in the last PRK.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Wolflore said:


> No idea, I was just pondering what could be cleaning up in the desert. They came to mind. There was a bit on them in the last PRK.


 
i did think the same but im pretty sure dung beetles are quite big and beardies would just wipe them out :lol2:.

im thinking of trying little experiments after the summer is over with different beasties in a viv and seeing how they get on in the viv. hopefully ill find something that will handle these temps. also if i can make the substrate deep enough with the underneath layers of soil being damp with a dry crust on the top it may or may not work but i think its worth a try at least : victory:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Wolflore said:


> What about dung beetle larvae?


Dung beetle larvea requires mamilian fecies, i beleive and only certain ones at that. Would be no good in a rep enclosure. Also beardies would just eat them. 

The best bet is desert woodlice i think

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> Dung beetle larvea requires mamilian fecies, i beleive and only certain ones at that. Would be no good in a rep enclosure. Also beardies would just eat them.
> 
> The best bet is desert woodlice i think
> 
> jay


iv spoke to greggm on here yesterday and he reckons that springtails and woodlice would survive well in these type of vivs as long as underneath the top layer of soil was still damp. we seems to have had success keeping leos on this over the years and beardies conditions aint that much hotter than leo's lol 

ach i dont know iv been racking my brain for the last 48 hours on this and its driving me crazy all ready :lol2:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> iv spoke to greggm on here yesterday and he reckons that springtails and woodlice would survive well in these type of vivs as long as underneath the top layer of soil was still damp. we seems to have had success keeping leos on this over the years and beardies conditions aint that much hotter than leo's lol
> 
> ach i dont know iv been racking my brain for the last 48 hours on this and its driving me crazy all ready :lol2:


I said that on the first page lol, if you keep something damp in the viv, the under side of a log or the bottom of the viv, then they have somewhere to bread. But if i remember (CBA to scrole back) people then said that would mean the habitat wasnt arid and so didnt count. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> I said that on the first page lol, if you keep something damp in the viv, the under side of a log or the bottom of the viv, then they have somewhere to bread. But if i remember (CBA to scrole back) people then said that would mean the habitat wasnt arid and so didnt count.
> 
> jay


 
lol that didnt come from me :lol2: 

i know its not arid although im sure if you dug up the outback you would find moisture not that far down and if its as close as i can get just now well im gonna give it a go. the only thing i have at the back of my mind though is possible RI's but that may be solved with added air vents. 
ill just need to research it a lot more before i go for it.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> lol that didnt come from me :lol2:
> 
> i know its not arid although im sure if you dug up the outback you would find moisture not that far down and if its as close as i can get just now well im gonna give it a go. the only thing i have at the back of my mind though is possible RI's but that may be solved with added air vents.
> ill just need to research it a lot more before i go for it.


keeping and arae damp, preferably the cool end, should not rise humidity and shiould not cause RI's if done correctly. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> keeping and arae damp, preferably the cool end, should not rise humidity and shiould not cause RI's if done correctly.
> 
> jay


 
thats what i thought aswell but having never had experience with this type of thing i was very unsure. all his food bowls etc is the cool end anyway so thats where most the mess is made plus he dosnt go to the toilet in the viv and waits for his bath before to go so dont have to worry about that really but if he did idstill spot clean i couldnt stand the smell of that in my house :lol2:


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

I was thinking of making a sub up with sand on top running a dripper in the viv to keep things wet. Problem with drippers is controlling the flow


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> I was thinking of making a sub up with sand on top running a dripper in the viv to keep things wet. Problem with drippers is controlling the flow


well thats the thing, its easy enough saying yeah keep it damp but how do you keep it damp without it effecting the top layer to much because you couldnt spray it like the splendida or such and like you said withthe dripper, how do you control the flow and not end flooding it :devil: 

i still think its doable but its going to have to be thought out very well


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

I had another thought...

*Substrate*

...from the ground up

Hydrolecca
Orchid bark, etc
Semi-permeable membrane (one way. Goretex or the like)
Tubes running from bark (etc) layer to top
A set sand layer, creating a solid floor
There could even be a soil warming cable at the hot end only, just below the set sand layer

Water could be added to the lower areas through the tubes. Insects could be introduced to this layer the same way. When heating drops at night they would come out and clean up (hopefully!). Good ventilation would stop the atmosphere becoming too humid, as would a low wattage ceramic.

Just a thought.


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

hmm what about dung beetles

Found this clipped on a 'dung beetle facts' snip

You may be wondering whose dung these insects eat. It depends on where they live and what species they are. Dung beetles are found worldwide, on every continent except Antarctica. *They live in habitats that range from desert to forest*. Most prefer dung from herbivores, or animals that eat only plants, but some will seek dung from omnivores, or animals that eat plants as well as meat.


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

kirky1980 said:


> well thats the thing, its easy enough saying yeah keep it damp but how do you keep it damp without it effecting the top layer to much because you couldnt spray it like the splendida or such and like you said withthe dripper, how do you control the flow and not end flooding it :devil:
> 
> i still think its doable but its going to have to be thought out very well



To control the flow on a dripper, attach a piece of aquarium airline as your outflow, then use a airline control clamp to adjust the flow. Should work fine.

Could make one out of an old coke bottle, punch a hole throught the lid for the airline to go into, Silicone it in. Put a small hole in the bottom (now the top) of the bottle to allow for air to get in and get rid of the vacuum effect. Then turn it upside down and use a rainwater pipe bracket to attach to back of the viv.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

nicnet said:


> To control the flow on a dripper, attach a piece of aquarium airline as your outflow, then use a airline control clamp to adjust the flow. Should work fine.
> 
> Could make one out of an old coke bottle, punch a hole throught the lid for the airline to go into, Silicone it in. Put a small hole in the bottom (now the top) of the bottle to allow for air to get in and get rid of the vacuum effect. Then turn it upside down and use a rainwater pipe bracket to attach to back of the viv.


 
that sounds like a great idea but how do you make it an even spread over a 5ft long viv from one bottle. as for an airline control clamp iv not got a clue what that is lol if its not made from wood im screwed:lol2:

wolflore yours also sounds like a plan complicated but its doable also : victory:


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm thinking of doing it for my Leo viv. It is due a rebuild anyway. Might as well give it a go. I'm going to be dividing the viv at the bottom so that the cable can be removed easily if it ever breaks. Then the other two thirds could have the bio-active stuff going on below the surface, as it would be in the wild. I'm thinking a cool mossy hide area could be linked directly to the bio-active substrate and thus would provide a nice little 'cave' for shedding time


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Wolflore said:


> I'm thinking of doing it for my Leo viv. It is due a rebuild anyway. Might as well give it a go. I'm going to be dividing the viv at the bottom so that the cable can be removed easily if it ever breaks. Then the other two thirds could have the bio-active stuff going on below the surface, as it would be in the wild. I'm thinking a cool mossy hide area could be linked directly to the bio-active substrate and thus would provide a nice little 'cave' for shedding time


 
oh that sounds like a plan mate you will need to let me know how you get on im not gonna be able to do this till after the summer as iv got too much on.
as for moss iv got sheet moss on the floor of my splendida viv but its only been there 6 weeks or so so i dont know how well its taking to the soil yet. it wouldmaybe be a good idea to go out to the countryside and find some moss covered rocks to create a hide this would have a great effect i think: victory:


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

kirky1980 said:


> that sounds like a great idea but how do you make it an even spread over a 5ft long viv from one bottle. as for an airline control clamp iv not got a clue what that is lol if its not made from wood im screwed:lol2:
> 
> wolflore yours also sounds like a plan complicated but its doable also : victory:


Airline clamp, from any aquatics shop or ebay.
AIRLINE CLAMP 4MM X 2 FOR AQUARIUM / TANK | eBay UK

Airline splitter / T-Piece This one is for koi lines which are bigger diam but do have the serated ends that hold the lines better, less chance of the lines coming loose. Choose either aquarium airline or pond airline diam first before getting.
8mm AIR LINE "T" PIECE - KOI/ FISH/ POND | eBay UK

Airline for aquarium, this is the 6mm one which goes with the smaller T pieces and not the koi one as advertised.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10m-x-6mm-CLE...den_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item35b2e42d04
To spread over the entire viv, you could use airline splitters and run them down the back of the viv then into the bottom. May take a bit of fiddling to get right but the line and parts are cheap.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

nicnet said:


> Airline clamp, from any aquatics shop or ebay.
> AIRLINE CLAMP 4MM X 2 FOR AQUARIUM / TANK | eBay UK
> 
> Airline splitter / T-Piece This one is for koi lines which are bigger diam but do have the serated ends that hold the lines better, less chance of the lines coming loose. Choose either aquarium airline or pond airline diam first before getting.
> ...


 
cheers for that at least i know what im looking fo haha 

like i said before if it isnt wood or made with wood iv not got a clue lol


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

What about these badgers

*Firebrat*
(_Thermobia domestica_)
A relatively new livefood that must be kept bone-dry at temperatures bewteen 32 and 45°C. Requires only a kitchen towel base, wad of cotton wool and a constant supply of fresh fish flake/calcium to multiply.
Adults are taken by larger _Dendrobates_ while hatchling firebrats are devoured by most _Dendrobates_. ​


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> What about these badgers
> 
> *Firebrat*
> (_Thermobia domestica_)
> ...


yeah i looked at those but im not sure about get fish food and calcium to them once there already in the viv.


----------



## McToons (May 7, 2011)

For the controllable drip system; wouldn't an old medical drip system work too? Completely controllable and extremely simple to set up (assuming you can get your hands on them)!


----------



## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> yeah i looked at those but im not sure about get fish food and calcium to them once there already in the viv.


Isn't that just for gutloading if you're feeding them to dendrobates?


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Wolflore said:


> Isn't that just for gutloading if you're feeding them to dendrobates?


I agree with this Kirky the point would be they eat the mess


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Wolflore said:


> Isn't that just for gutloading if you're feeding them to dendrobates?





SteveCourty said:


> I agree with this Kirky the point would be they eat the mess


i was sure i read that they need all that to breed but iv maybe taken that in the wrong context and that was maybe for breeding a culture of them. id have a look for what iv read but im just about to leave for this daft wedding :devil:

so ill post it tomorrow at some point when im back


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> i was sure i read that they need all that to breed but iv maybe taken that in the wrong context and that was maybe for breeding a culture of them. id have a look for what iv read but im just about to leave for this daft wedding :devil:
> 
> so ill post it tomorrow at some point when im back


ahh i see if you had a good population though then you could do both


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> What about these badgers
> 
> *Firebrat*
> (_Thermobia domestica_)
> ...



Deffently interesting 

I'm also trying to source some desert woodlice for all those interested. not sure when i will have them though as i want to get them breading first. 

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> Deffently interesting
> 
> I'm also trying to source some desert woodlice for all those interested. not sure when i will have them though as i want to get them breading first.
> 
> Jay


Ill be buying some on payday ill let you know how they get on.

On the desert woodlive id be interested :2thumb: where are you sourcing them from?


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> Ill be buying some on payday ill let you know how they get on.
> 
> On the desert woodlive id be interested :2thumb: where are you sourcing them from?



I'm not going to say where im sourcing them from lol. You never give away exportor details lol. But once i get them i'll be letting people know

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> I'm not going to say where im sourcing them from lol. You never give away exportor details lol. But once i get them i'll be letting people know
> 
> Jay


 
Ahh NP I didnt know if it was a site. Its something im thinking of asking on the next desert import. Any ideas on costs and quantities if you do sell some?


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> Ahh NP I didnt know if it was a site. Its something im thinking of asking on the next desert import. Any ideas on costs and quantities if you do sell some?


not sure yet, they wont be much. 

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> not sure yet, they wont be much.
> 
> Jay


 
Cool let me know :2thumb:


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> I'm not going to say where im sourcing them from lol. You never give away exportor details lol. But once i get them i'll be letting people know
> 
> Jay


ahh good to know. when you get some established ill definitley take some of you.

thisis shocking this wedding is so boring iv resorted to having a quick scan through this lol

roll on drinking time :flrt:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> ahh good to know. when you get some established ill definitley take some of you.
> 
> thisis shocking this wedding is so boring iv resorted to having a quick scan through this lol
> 
> roll on drinking time :flrt:


 
ahh a true scotsmen


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> ahh a true scotsmen


haha ill no show you how true a scotsman i am mate wearing this kilt and all id be banned :lol2:

is beer time now anyway then food time soonish if im sobre enough to eat :whistling2:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

If a soil sand mix was made say 50/50 and it was allowed to dry on the top then wouldnt many of the bugs be ok living deep down? If you had say 4 inch of sub then surely the humidity wouldnt be an issue?

Also any ideas on desert plants that will survive in the vivs?


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

i think thats how people currently do it, also i read adding clay or something to that effect is good for stability 

i'm guessing certain air plants + succulents would be good i guess + aloes (non spikey) + grasses


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> i think thats how people currently do it, also i read adding clay or something to that effect is good for stability
> 
> i'm guessing certain air plants + succulents would be good i guess + aloes (non spikey) + grasses


Ive got aloes here ready to be added  I was thinking maybe a few cacti but im unsure if the ones we get are ok to use? Grass wise again im unsure what to add tbh


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> If a soil sand mix was made say 50/50 and it was allowed to dry on the top then wouldnt many of the bugs be ok living deep down? If you had say 4 inch of sub then surely the humidity wouldnt be an issue?
> 
> Also any ideas on desert plants that will survive in the vivs?


well i was thinking the same thing with the depth of it that way you should get a nice crispy natural effect on top. as for plant i was thinking something down the carex range of dry grasses. iv saw a few vivs on here with it and it looks fantastic really


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

you'll prolly want non spiky cactus  

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/planted-vivariums/478486-planted-natural-leo-viv-2.html

The grassy thing Mr pendragon used was Carex Bronze Sedge 

but i dont think his substrate is bioactive


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> well i was thinking the same thing with the depth of it that way you should get a nice crispy natural effect on top. as for plant i was thinking something down the carex range of dry grasses. iv saw a few vivs on here with it and it looks fantastic really


Problem is I cant find it anywhere!


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Problem is I cant find it anywhere!


the bnq beside me does it for a fiver a plant and there quite a good size. iv never saw any on there website though its always been in store : victory:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> you'll prolly want non spiky cactus
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/planted-vivariums/478486-planted-natural-leo-viv-2.html
> 
> ...


Is this right?

Buy Carex flagellifera 'Weeping Bronze Sedge' | :: Buy Garden Plants online from our online garden Centre at best4plants


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

imitebmike said:


> you'll prolly want non spiky cactus
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/planted-vivariums/478486-planted-natural-leo-viv-2.html
> 
> ...


thats one of the vivs i was on about. once all the grass ir grown etc it would look awesome. i dont think he uses bio-active substrate either but i dont think that would effect it : victory:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> the bnq beside me does it for a fiver a plant and there quite a good size. iv never saw any on there website though its always been in store : victory:


I was looking for bags of seeds :hmm:


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

CAREX Bronze SEDGE - ORNAMENTAL GRASS PLANT in 9cm Pot | eBay UK

:whistling2:


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Is this right?
> 
> Buy Carex flagellifera 'Weeping Bronze Sedge' | :: Buy Garden Plants online from our online garden Centre at best4plants


thats the very stuff mate i found a website before and it had about 50 different varietys of it in all sorts of colours aswell. cant remember what it was though


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> I was looking for bags of seeds :hmm:


ahh no doubt you will get them online somewhere though


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> thats the very stuff mate i found a website before and it had about 50 different varietys of it in all sorts of colours aswell. cant remember what it was though


-shakes you- REEEMMMEEEMMMBBBBEEERRRRR


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

oh well i found the site but it seems to be for the seeds like you wanted :no1:
Carex Ornamental grasses - Carex Grass


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> thats the very stuff mate i found a website before and it had about 50 different varietys of it in all sorts of colours aswell. cant remember what it was though


:whip::bash::whip::bash::whip::bash:

Well a good beating makes some remember :whistling2:


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> :whip::bash::whip::bash::whip::bash:
> 
> Well a good beating makes some remember :whistling2:


iv remembered iv remembered its a few posts up the way :lol2:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> iv remembered iv remembered its a few posts up the way :lol2:


It worked then!

How much are full plants compared to seeds? I may buy a few of both


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

thats some skill you have there Steve :gasp: hospitals should hire you :O


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> It worked then!
> 
> How much are full plants compared to seeds? I may buy a few of both


roughly about a fiver for a plant from most places


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

2.50 for 40 seeds + i dunno what delivery is, but spend over £20 on that site and get free delivery 
5ish for a plant inc delivery


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> CAREX Bronze SEDGE - ORNAMENTAL GRASS PLANT in 9cm Pot | eBay UK
> 
> :whistling2:


Ive just gone to order off this guy and you have to have a credit card on file with ebay. Im not doing that! I know what im looking for now though


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

paypal? :O


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> paypal? :O


Thats what I tried but it says you have to have a credit card on file to buy anything from the user no matter what payment option your using. I really really dont like ebay I actually had to set up an account just now to try and buy from them as I never use them so I certainly wont be adding my card details!


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

weird :O ah wells, there are other vendors + other plants


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

imitebmike said:


> weird :O ah wells, there are other vendors + other plants


I know what they are now I think my local B and Q does sell them. I need to get some sand and soil so will check then


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Keep us updated with how it goes mr agama


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I havnt stuck my head on this thread for a while but there are loads of srid loving plants. 

personally i would have some spansish moss haing off branches and then have a few tillisandas scattered about with the odd grass. 

Have a look at the plants gill sells, Just Airplants a good 50% of her plants are arid loving. 

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> I havnt stuck my head on this thread for a while but there are loads of srid loving plants.
> 
> personally i would have some spansish moss haing off branches and then have a few tillisandas scattered about with the odd grass.
> 
> ...


I guess these are all Rep safe? I think all air plants are but not 100%


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Spikebrit said:


> I havnt stuck my head on this thread for a while but there are loads of srid loving plants.
> 
> personally i would have some spansish moss haing off branches and then have a few tillisandas scattered about with the odd grass.
> 
> ...


paleacea
ionantha Huamelula
ionantha Druid
ionantha Fuego
edithae
concolor
baileyi
ehlerisiana
ixiodes

some of the nicer ones IMO :O and she stated that they are arid viable  she had a bit on her website which i cant find anymore, but these are all suitable for vivs


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> I guess these are all Rep safe? I think all air plants are but not 100%


All of her plants are 100% reptile safe, if you email gill, she will walk you through plants that are suitbale for the enclusre you have. She is very helpful. 

Also the reptile section is under mainterence at the mo as things are changing. 

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> All of her plants are 100% reptile safe, if you email gill, she will walk you through plants that are suitbale for the enclusre you have. She is very helpful.
> 
> Also the reptile section is under mainterence at the mo as things are changing.
> 
> Jay


Thankyou


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

that makes sense xD them plants were in her arid plant list  it was longer but i skipped to the ones i liked


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> Thankyou


She is really helpful and is great at offering advice on planted vivs. 

She keeps tryingt o convince me to plant out all my arid habits, but I have to start working out my lighting first. 

jay


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

i think this is the first 12 page thread in rfuk history that hasnt turned in to a total barmy lol well done us :lol2:


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> i think this is the first 12 page thread in rfuk history that hasnt turned in to a total barmy lol well done us :lol2:


Yer, thats a bit scary lol.Beter start with the insults. 

Jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> i think this is the first 12 page thread in rfuk history that hasnt turned in to a total barmy lol well done us :lol2:


and now its ruined......:lol2:


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

ProRep Tortoise Life Reptile Substrate, 25Kg | eBay UK

...isnt that basically the substrate you want? xD although its quite costly :gasp:

...although it does have added calc in it so meh :O


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

it is a similar thing but that price lol screw that for a laugh i could do 4 vivs for life for less than that :lol2:


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

No but i am lazyyyyyyyyyyy 

I need to find out more about what types of clay will work xD i read some guy on an american forum say he uses cat litter :O


----------



## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

Haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but my beardie eats eeeeverything! even a few pin head crickets that escaped into the rug during Leo baby feeding so not sure how long any bugs would live in there.


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Smigsy said:


> Haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but my beardie eats eeeeverything! even a few pin head crickets that escaped into the rug during Leo baby feeding so not sure how long any bugs would live in there.


xD yeah, beardies SHOULD generally ignore springtails though  and as long as there is enough cover (logs/etcetc/substrate) SOME woodlice/isopods/bugs should survive  its just a matter of finding some which are suitable


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

imitebmike said:


> No but i am lazyyyyyyyyyyy
> 
> I need to find out more about what types of clay will work xD i read some guy on an american forum say he uses cat litter :O


hehe i here you there lol
iv never herd of cat litter being used thats a strange one lol



Smigsy said:


> Haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been mentioned but my beardie eats eeeeverything! even a few pin head crickets that escaped into the rug during Leo baby feeding so not sure how long any bugs would live in there.


springtails and tropical woodlice are really tiny i doubt the beardie would even bother with them really


----------



## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

Ah I was thinking they were about the same size as our pea bugs. not the massive beasty ones but normal size ones.


----------



## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

Only certain ones  like those made from bentonite...also fuller's earth

...what we really want is someone who sells loam in handlable sizes :bash:


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Smigsy said:


> Ah I was thinking they were about the same size as our pea bugs. not the massive beasty ones but normal size ones.


no the tropical springtails are only maybe 2mm long if that and the tropical woodlice maybe about 5mm long


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

With a soil sand mix would normal earth worms survive?


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> With a soil sand mix would normal earth worms survive?


well i was talking to pat( bamboozoo) about this yesterday and he said that its pointless using earthworms in that kind of mix. they would just die off. he says he relys heavily on his morios and mealies in the vivs aswell as springtails and woodlice and anything else that comes on the leaf litter.
his ratio is different to what i thought it would be he uses a layer of sand then loads of leaf litter on the top of it and just leaves it to mix up natrally. also said to leave you corner at the cool end damp at all times and the bugs should thrive then: victory:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

I wouldnt put leaf litter in an arid setup it retains moisture. Any moisturr in these setups wil need to be deep in the sub. Also I can use mealies and morios as they destroy the backgrounds


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> I wouldnt put leaf litter in an arid setup it retains moisture. Any moisturr in these setups wil need to be deep in the sub. Also I can use mealies and morios as they destroy the backgrounds


well thats what i was thinkg aswell with the moisture. as for the worms and backgrounds in i dont have any in my vivs but i was thing about doing the old polystyrere and grout thing for them. do you reckon the worms would still get through that?


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> well thats what i was thinkg aswell with the moisture. as for the worms and backgrounds in i dont have any in my vivs but i was thing about doing the old polystyrere and grout thing for them. do you reckon the worms would still get through that?


Yes! I really hate them for it otherwise id us them in the rid setups they would work well. They are great cleaners


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Yes! I really hate them for it otherwise id us them in the rid setups they would work well. They are great cleaners


thats a bummer then. hopefully jay comes back with these woodlice he was after they sound like they would do the trick. im going to try and find more info on firebrats aswell and see how they would get on but the info is scarce on them after a quick google


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> thats a bummer then. hopefully jay comes back with these woodlice he was after they sound like they would do the trick. im going to try and find more info on firebrats aswell and see how they would get on but the info is scarce on them after a quick google


Looks like i may have sourced some woodlice, a big may, but if and when they are landed i'll let you know. 

I would avoid mealworms as well if you have plysterine backgrouns as they get munched on lol.

jay


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> Looks like i may have sourced some woodlice, a big may, but if and when they are landed i'll let you know.
> 
> I would avoid mealworms as well if you have plysterine backgrouns as they get munched on lol.
> 
> jay


ooooh goodie goode ill keep my fingers crossed for you then.
what type of woodlice is it your trying to get anyway?


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> ooooh goodie goode ill keep my fingers crossed for you then.
> what type of woodlice is it your trying to get anyway?


Ones found in the desert at the moment lol, if it is succeful we might be able to identfy them. Not to sure yet though.

jay


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> Ones found in the desert at the moment lol, if it is succeful we might be able to identfy them. Not to sure yet though.
> 
> jay


ahh i take it there just scooped up from there then lol
well there all out there for a reason and hopefully that reason is to help my viv out :devil:


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> ahh i take it there just scooped up from there then lol
> well there all out there for a reason and hopefully that reason is to help my viv out :devil:


Thats it, but it all depends on communication, as im communicating through a friend, so fingers crossed it works. 

Also, have a look in the planted viv section, i've just put two videos up of my habitats, and stuff. 

jay


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> Thats it, but it all depends on communication, as im communicating through a friend, so fingers crossed it works.
> 
> Also, have a look in the planted viv section, i've just put two videos up of my habitats, and stuff.
> 
> jay


well like i said ill keep my fingers crossed for you aswell. it just would be good to get something like this up and running. as im sure the reptiles will benefit so much from it.

cool mate im going to have a look now :no1:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

I picked up a load of those grasses yesterday and ordered some firebrats this evening


----------



## iangreentree (Nov 5, 2007)

This won't work for everyones reps or vivs but I hatched mealworms into beetles and put them in my ackies viv ! The ackies don't touch them as the are small insects. They do a great job at cleaning up any poo and leftover egg etc temps in viv are over 90f so may work for some of u .


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> I picked up a load of those grasses yesterday and ordered some firebrats this evening


nice one mate with the firebrats. do you have any info on them or are you just chancing it with them?



iangreentree said:


> This won't work for everyones reps or vivs but I hatched mealworms into beetles and put them in my ackies viv ! The ackies don't touch them as the are small insects. They do a great job at cleaning up any poo and leftover egg etc temps in viv are over 90f so may work for some of u .


yeah i think it would be really hard to do in some vivs that hit well over 100f in the vivs but i reckon it would be ok in heat of a beardies viv as that aint to much hotter than a leopard gecko. i dont know anything about ackies so not sure what temps they need really.


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Let us know how you get on with the firebrats steve. I've seen them at a few places and keep debating trying some but havnt yet. 

jay


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Im chancing them tbh. I have no idea if they will work but need to try something


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Im chancing them tbh. I have no idea if they will work but need to try something


well fair do's mate hope it works. it would be good to put something else on the list : victory:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> well fair do's mate hope it works. it would be good to put something else on the list : victory:


There needs to be something on the list to have something else!


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> There needs to be something on the list to have something else!


i dont think i ment to put else in that lol im having a blonde day:whistling2:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> i dont think i ment to put else in that lol im having a blonde day:whistling2:


Lol lets hope these woodlice come through as well. Ive been looking up on desert millipedes and can get some on the tanzanian shipment as well as quite a few beetle species only problem is its an expensive way to do it!


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Lol lets hope these woodlice come through as well. Ive been looking up on desert millipedes and can get some on the tanzanian shipment as well as quite a few beetle species only problem is its an expensive way to do it!


yeah id imagine it would more expensive way to do it. its not even like you can buy them to breed them in hope on people buying them of you as i cant see that many people doing this really. dam even the thought of loose substrate freaks people out never mind beasties living in a viv permenatly lol


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> yeah id imagine it would more expensive way to do it. its not even like you can buy them to breed them in hope on people buying them of you as i cant see that many people doing this really. dam even the thought of loose substrate freaks people out never mind beasties living in a viv permenatly lol


Yeah the lizard section is far behind phibs. Its starting to come over though. **Shock Horror** if this works ill be removing my beardies slate. He can have morios and mealies in his as well as He doesnt have a background


----------



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> Yeah the lizard section is far behind phibs. Its starting to come over though. **Shock Horror** if this works ill be removing my beardies slate. He can have morios and mealies in his as well as He doesnt have a background


yeah some of those frog setups are incredible on there really and we should all take note really.

im ok to use morios and mealies as i dont have backgrounds in my vivs well at least i dont have foam backgrounds so ill be safe enough :2thumb:


----------



## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> yeah some of those frog setups are incredible on there really and we should all take note really.
> 
> im ok to use morios and mealies as i dont have backgrounds in my vivs well at least i dont have foam backgrounds so ill be safe enough :2thumb:


What do you use?


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

SteveCourty said:


> Lol lets hope these woodlice come through as well. Ive been looking up on desert millipedes and can get some on the tanzanian shipment as well as quite a few beetle species only problem is its an expensive way to do it!


If you have never kept beetles before, avopid them in a set up, especially desert ones.They are one of the hardest inverts to keep IMO.

Which desert millipedes are you refering to? 

Jay


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> If you have never kept beetles before, avopid them in a set up, especially desert ones.They are one of the hardest inverts to keep IMO.
> 
> Which desert millipedes are you refering to?
> 
> Jay


There were a few on it I dont have a list to hand tbh and havent researched yet so not 100% on which (If any) ill get. My local did have a male and a female in the other day and they were huge! Big black things Ill be honest I have no idea on the species but know they were desert as well.


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

Oh and beetle wise how come they are so hard to keep?


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

The big black ones are girant african trains, these need a soil based mixture and dont like it too hot. Larger animals i find dont do well with millies as they get eaten. Millies also only eat rotting leaf litter and wood, so would not touch fecies. They would not really be best in arid set ups imo. 

Beetle wise. Most of the desert beetles you see feed on certain types of rotting wood. They live in these and spend on average a few years in larva forms before they transform. they also need very deep substrate. The flower beetles you see on tanzinian lists are also very large, and feed on rotting white wood, so would do nothing of benefit in a bio active substrate. Finally as all beetles spend most of their life in larvea form, they stand a high chance of being eaten, before transformation, and if disturbed during the cacoon process they will also die. Basicall beetles are difficult to raise unless you know what you are doing and need really deep substrates

Dung beetles, feed on mamilian fecies, rather then reptilan or any others so would be useles in a viv. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> What do you use?


my leo has one of those scenery backgrounds in her viv with silk plants and some wood my beardie only has wood and rocks as a background really. i so need to re-vamp his viv and my splendida viv has plants all the round it as well as logs and wood for climbing on


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## Light (May 30, 2007)

Big bump here! This thread was a good read.
Anyone currently using this bio-active method for an arid species? In the process of setting up a leo viv and decided I'd love to go down this route.
Naturalistic Leo setup with a Bio active soil... - Geckos Unlimited
Found this guys posts on a few different forums who is doing something similar with great success.
Just looking for people who have done anything similar really and what went wrong/right.
I've got a 2ft viv to work with. Gonna mix soil/sand with leaf litter collected from my garden and thinking about trying meal/superworms as extra cleaners.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

hey mate iv never got round to it tbh but its something im still very intrested in doing though. viv size im thinking something bigger than 2ft purely for heating the viv and thermoregulation, as soon as a bulb goes in a 2 ft theres no escape from the heat for them as heat mats aint gonna be worth using, so i dunno. would love to see pics if you do go ahead with it though : victory:


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## Light (May 30, 2007)

I'm gonna test temps when it's set up, hopefully it will be possible to get a decent temperature gradient. Got a bulb mount attached to one side of the viv so with good use of layered hides etc hopefully the opposite end will be cool enough! Can't wait to start it, gonna be a big step into the unknown as theres very little info on it online!
Cheers for your input in this thread btw it's been a big help!


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## Light (May 30, 2007)

Would anyone have any idea how many mealies to add to the substrate to start with? Just like good handful I' guessing?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Light said:


> Would anyone have any idea how many mealies to add to the substrate to start with? Just like good handful I' guessing?


well keep the thread updated if you can mate be good to see more on the subject. as for mealies id throw in a few handfuls and probably a box of morios aswell as springtails and european woodlice to see how they fair. : victory:


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## Light (May 30, 2007)

Decided to go for it yesterday and started to set this up. Mixture of sand and soil, used the exo terra plantation soil as the soil. Collected a load of leaf litter from my garden along with some fallen twigs and mixed everything up. Also added quite a few mealies and hopefully the leaf litter has enough bugs etc in to help make this bioactive.


images


pic hosting

Not fully set up yet these are just the 2 base hides I'm gonna build it around. Left hand side warm side/basking spot. I'm gonna make the hide on the right the moist hide and keep it nice and damp but hopefully confine any high humidity levels to just that area. Got a few unstatted basking bulbs running in it atm to help dry the top of the substrate for a while.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I'd forgotten all about this thread. For any readers of PRK this inspired me to write up my results for PRK. For anyone that didn't read it the most success was had using european woodlice and providing a moist branch/bark for them to reproduce under, which also ment they came out at night anc cleaned up. The substrate was a 50/50 mix of sand and soil. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Light said:


> Decided to go for it yesterday and started to set this up. Mixture of sand and soil, used the exo terra plantation soil as the soil. Collected a load of leaf litter from my garden along with some fallen twigs and mixed everything up. Also added quite a few mealies and hopefully the leaf litter has enough bugs etc in to help make this bioactive.
> 
> [URL=http://s7.postimage.org/y4wy2okff/IMAG0368.jpg]image[/url]
> images
> ...


love the work iv just never got round to getting it done but im on a major viv revamp for next year with new vivs lighting etc getting done and will certainly be doing this for my arid critters : victory:



Spikebrit said:


> I'd forgotten all about this thread. For any readers of PRK this inspired me to write up my results for PRK. For anyone that didn't read it the most success was had using european woodlice and providing a moist branch/bark for them to reproduce under, which also ment they came out at night anc cleaned up. The substrate was a 50/50 mix of sand and soil.
> 
> jay


woo hoo i gave insperation yay :lol2:

iv not saw it jay do you remember what issue it was and ill get a copy, im intrested in it lots lol 


i had actually forgotten too till it popped up last week :whistling2:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

kirky1980 said:


> love the work iv just never got round to getting it done but im on a major viv revamp for next year with new vivs lighting etc getting done and will certainly be doing this for my arid critters : victory:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was a while ago now, PM your email and i'll email it over. 

jay


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> It was a while ago now, PM your email and i'll email it over.
> 
> jay


pm sent 


legend as always mr jay :no1:


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