# Fire belly toads with other frogs???



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Now, i have had my FBTs for almost 3 years when i got them for my 11th birthday. I started researching about mixing FBTs with tree frogs, etc. and found out that people had mixed opinions. Some of the, said it was fine, they had kept fbts with green tree frogs for years. A lot of people also said it was bad to do this as FBTs release toxins into the water.

I need help from you guys to tell me if it is ok to mix a tree frog and my FBTs together as i really want a new frog that can go with them. I am only asking this because i am not allowed to get another viv for a tree frog (i have a huge mesh enclosure that i used to keep stick insects in but im jot allowed to use it  ). 

Also, i heard that green tree frogs are immne to fbt toxins.

I am also making a planted viv soon so if a tree frog can go in there i will mike it very leafy and sticky so it will stay in the "tree" bit and the fbts will stay in the water/ground layer.

Thanks for helping, 

Tom


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I *love* the sound of my own voice- I must do, to repeat myself so much. *So, again, no, FBTs cannot be kept with other amphibians!* They release a slow-acting, cumulative toxin, that slowly but surely kills the others off. Now, fbt123, you can ask the same question, in different formats, over and over again- but you will still get the same answer. All you will guarentee is that I will no longer give you any help at all, since you clearly are not prepared to take on advice or look after your animals properly.


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

de-ja-vu


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Sorry Ron,

I didnt know that my lack of knowledge in the world 'phibs irritates you so much lol:bash:

Now i will not be asking daft questions like this again, so sorry for wasting your time by helping a newbie (me) at raising my frogs well. I will be sure to not make my mistake of asking the same question twice :whip:

If you do wish to not help me, then so be it. That does suck though as you are one of the 'elders' (by no means am i being offensive by saying that, it is metaphorical) in the world of 'phibs and your advice is very good. 

Again i am sorry for wasting your time,

Fbt123


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Also, i must care for my animals as they have lived with me for 3 years with no problems.

Again, i apologise for being so naive.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Fbt123 said:


> Sorry Ron,
> 
> I didnt know that my lack of knowledge in the world 'phibs irritates you so much lol:bash:
> 
> ...


My issue isn't you asking the question- it's a reasonable one, as it was when you asked before. It's having had the answer (several times) you are asking again, hoping that someone will tell you what you want to hear. _That_ is why I got annoyed.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ok, i am one of those people that need to get firm evidence from multiple sources so i know wether to make a decision or not. Yes, i was expecting an answer like yours but i also wanted to see _other_ peoples' opinions on the matter.


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Fbt123 said:


> Ok, i am one of those people that need to get firm evidence from multiple sources so i know wether to make a decision or not. Yes, i was expecting an answer like yours but i also wanted to see _other_ peoples' opinions on the matter.


No would be mine, i don't keep FBT but i've seen your topic covered several times on here regarding fbt and other frogs, and also about mixing darts, basically dont do it


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

Fbt123 said:


> Ok, i am one of those people that need to get firm evidence from multiple sources so i know wether to make a decision or not. Yes, i was expecting an answer like yours but i also wanted to see _other_ peoples' opinions on the matter.


Here is another view for you. 20yrs ago when I first started keeping phibs I put grey tree frogs in with some oriental fire bellied toads. There were no problems for the first few months. Then with in a month the grey treefrogs had all died, but the Fire bellied toads were fine. It is only in the last 5 or so years I have realised that it was the toxins from the toads that lead to the death of the treefrogs. So I would say do not keep anything else with your fire bellied toads.
Hope this helps
Chris


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks Chris,

I will definitely not be putting anything apart from FBTs with my FBTs lol

Little buggers kill everything :war:


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

generally the same for whites tree frogs (and i imagine milk frogs too), tend to eat anything that'll fit in their mouth


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Mixing species in general, is a very bad idea, especially within the field of _Amphibia _keeping in the industry and even more so with the species you wish to co-inhabit. 

_B.orientalis_ (You are incredibly vague in regards to which "FBT" you keep) in particular is quite Toxic to most species, not only other Amphibian species, this is not only secreted in deadly dosages from the hind legs (this will appear as a milky substance) but also, the toxins are secreted gradually and can have incredibly adverse effects on co-inhabiting species, which can prove fatal. 

Also, all Amphibia do have some level of toxicity within their skin, all with different affects and different types, especially when it comes to the _Dendrobatidae_ family (I noticed this was mentioned by MeefLoaf that you asked about this area also). 

I wrote a small thread a few years ago regarding this topic, have a read. 

For New Comers & Beginners - Don't Mix Species Topic

Kind regards, 

Joshua Ralph


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ive heard about things like that like when an fbt eats a fbn. Kinda sad really 

I sent an email to my local petshop to ask about what tree frogs can be housed with fbts. Dont get mad, i just want to see what they say :lol2:

Theyll probably say every tree frog to try and get me to buy one (i wont of course).


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

MantellaMan said:


> Mixing species in general, is a very bad idea, especially within the field of _Amphibia _keeping in the industry and even more so with the species you wish to co-inhabit.
> 
> _B.orientalis_ (You are incredibly vague in regards to which "FBT" you keep) in particular is quite Toxic to most species, not only other Amphibian species, this is not only secreted in deadly dosages from the hind legs (this will appear as a milky substance) but also, the toxins are secreted gradually and can have incredibly adverse effects on co-inhabiting species, which can prove fatal.
> 
> ...


Thanks Joshua,

I am aware of the exact species of my frog, b.orientalis . Fbt is just an abbreviation as i dont really want to type that every time i want to mention them lol


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

The only success I have ever had was a colony of American green treefrogs, American grey treefrogs and green anoles. I had this colony for around 5 yrs and all the occupants were wild caught, so I had no idea of age. This was a good 15 yrs ago and I put it down to luck not judgement. I would not mix species again though as there are too many variables to consider.


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Fbt123 said:


> Thanks Joshua,
> 
> I am aware of the exact species of my frog, b.orientalis . Fbt is just an abbreviation as i dont really want to type that every time i want to mention them lol


No worries.

There are 8 species of _Bombina_, all with different toxicity levels most of which are available in the Pet Trade, to shorten it, you can simply put 'OFBT' to save time and get the information you want quicker. 

Kind regards, 

Joshua Ralph


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Good idea Joshua! I never thought of that lol.

Do you think b.maxima are kept as pets as they look cool


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Fbt123 said:


> Ive heard about things like that like when an fbt eats a fbn. Kinda sad really
> 
> I sent an email to my local petshop to ask about what tree frogs can be housed with fbts. Dont get mad, i just want to see what they say :lol2:
> 
> Theyll probably say every tree frog to try and get me to buy one (i wont of course).


Because the local petshop is likely to know more than Chris who's kept them for over 20 years, or me who's kept them for over 30, or MM who actually works professionally in the field of herpetology. *Goood* thinking... :whistling2:


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

chrisperrins78 said:


> The only success I have ever had was a colony of American green treefrogs, American grey treefrogs and green anoles. I had this colony for around 5 yrs and all the occupants were wild caught, so I had no idea of age. This was a good 15 yrs ago and I put it down to luck not judgement. I would not mix species again though as there are too many variables to consider.


I am surprised that they co-existed so well for so long. I wish i could get a tree frog but my parents wont let me, even though i have a big mesh thing that i could put them in


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

If you search around you can get bombina maxima, but be prepared to pay quite a bit for them.
Chris


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Fbt123 said:


> Good idea Joshua! I never thought of that lol.
> 
> Do you think b.maxima are kept as pets as they look cool


B.maxima is sometimes found here and there, the last specimens I remember being for sale in the UK was at Dartfrog.co.uk about two years ago now. 
They are uncommon but not an absolute rarity within the industry.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ron Magpie said:


> Because the local petshop is likely to know more than Chris who's kept them for over 20 years, or me who's kept them for over 30, or MM who actually works proefessionally in the field of herpetology. *Goood* thinking... :whistling2:


Ah, you see i just wanted to say what they would say, because no doubt they would try to flog me anything to get a bit of £££ lol. I am *not* asking them for advice as i know they arent very...accurate at what they say.


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

Fbt123 said:


> I am surprised that they co-existed so well for so long. I wish i could get a tree frog but my parents wont let me, even though i have a big mesh thing that i could put them in


Mesh would be useless for tree frogs, as you would have very poor humidity. Just put more stick insects in it.


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> Because the local petshop is likely to know more than Chris who's kept them for over 20 years, or me who's kept them for over 30, or MM who actually works professionally in the field of herpetology. *Goood* thinking... :whistling2:


Did you not know mate, Pet Shops know a million times more than experienced people!  
Here was me thinking all my years in Herpetology (Batrachology) counted for something! lol


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Nah, stick insects get a bit boring after a while, thats why i moved onto phibs.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

MantellaMan said:


> Did you not know mate, Pet Shops know a million times more than experienced people!
> Here was me thinking all my years in Herpetology (Batrachology) counted for something! lol


Lol, i get annoyed by the fact that pet shops dont employ people with actual knowledge of animals, so they dont just say some bs to get a profit. I do realise you guys have 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...you get it, more experience than the pet shop guy lol


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Can i ask, does anyone buy from dartfrog.co.uk?


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Fbt123 said:


> Can i ask, does anyone buy from dartfrog.co.uk?


actually, thats a good point, i wonder what Marc would say on this subject


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

MantellaMan, you have 666 posts! :devil: :whip:


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have bought from dartfrog, very good service and animals. One thing I would like to add is do not mix different species of bombina as they have been known to cross breed. Keep single species together.
Chris


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Fbt123 said:


> Lol, i get annoyed by the fact that pet shops dont employ people with actual knowledge of animals, so they dont just say some bs to get a profit. I do realise you guys have 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...you get it, more experience than the pet shop guy lol


Well, it's more of a case that most people with actual knowledge don't wish to work within a Pet Shop environment. A Zoo Keeping / Animal Technician can get you very far within the career path including working within conservation (Insitu) or even a Curator one day, but a Pet Shop Sales Assistant doesn't really open many doors and the highest you can really get is a Manager.

Marc (Dartfrog.co.uk) is an incredibly good guy to deal with, I have dealt with him on numerous occasions (recently _Mantella baroni_) and found both the quality and service, most excellent.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Meefloaf said:


> actually, thats a good point, i wonder what Marc would say on this subject


Ah, you see i went to his shop in the wyre forest and i asked him if it was ok to house other phibs with fbts and he said you could put some tree frogs with them. As it was my birthday i could choose either a) a european or american tree frog or b) another OFBT but i played it safe and got another ofbt


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

pets at home opened up just down the road from me, was tempted just to keep animals alive lol


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

MantellaMan said:


> Well, it's more of a case that most people with actual knowledge don't wish to work within a Pet Shop environment. A Zoo Keeping / Animal Technician can get you very far within the career path including working within conservation (Insitu) or even a Curator one day, but a Pet Shop Sales Assistant doesn't really open many doors and the highest you can really get is a Manager.


I'd really like to do a job like yours as it would be great to care for loads of phibs as i plant to own a tree frog when im older. However, i aspire to become a chemist or physicist when im older.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Meefloaf said:


> pets at home opened up just down the road from me, was tempted just to keep animals alive lol


Pets at home is bad, some of the states the rabbits and other furry animals are in makes me feel sorry for them


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Fbt123 said:


> Ah, you see i went to his shop in the wyre forest and i asked him if it was ok to house other phibs with fbts and he said you could put some tree frogs with them. As it was my birthday i could choose either a) a european or american tree frog or b) another OFBT but i played it safe and got another ofbt


As I said to you when you mentioned this before, I am very surprised indeed at this frankly bad advice.


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

Fbt123 said:


> Pets at home is bad, some of the states the rabbits and other furry animals are in makes me feel sorry for them


They treat the furries quite well compared to the herps.


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> As I said to you when you mentioned this before, I am very surprised indeed at this frankly bad advice.


This really surprises me as well, the advice I have had from there before has been spot on.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ron Magpie said:


> As I said to you when you mentioned this before, I am very surprised indeed at this frankly bad advice.


Oh yeh, i did tell you didn't i. I was quite confused as well considering dartfrog is such a good website


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i just find it funny how you have to fill out forms to say you're not going to kill the fish, yet they employ people who end up killing the fish


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> As I said to you when you mentioned this before, I am very surprised indeed at this frankly bad advice.





chrisperrins78 said:


> This really surprises me as well, the advice I have had from there before has been spot on.





Fbt123 said:


> Oh yeh, i did tell you didn't i. I was quite confused as well considering dartfrog is such a good website


Are you absolutely certain that this is what was said? It really does seem odd.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Meefloaf said:


> i just find it funny how you have to fill out forms to say you're not going to kill the fish, yet they employ people who end up killing the fish


Lol, i totally agree. My mate brought a japanese fighting fish and put it with his other tropical fish (he had about six or so). The next day the jff had eaten 2 of the fish! This happened because of bad petshop advice. Also it was one of the most expensive fishes there...no wonder they told him to buy it


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ron Magpie said:


> Are you absolutely certain that this is what was said? It really does seem odd.


I guarantee you it is, i wouldn't have said it otherwise.


----------



## chrisperrins78 (Nov 2, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> i just find it funny how you have to fill out forms to say you're not going to kill the fish, yet they employ people who end up killing the fish


I wanted some guppies they had and they said they needed a water sample and me to fill in some forms. But they sold the misses a hamster with out asking anything.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ooooh i'm a regular now:mf_dribble:


----------



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Fbt123 said:


> MantellaMan, you have 666 posts! :devil: :whip:


Yeah, don't really come on here that often and most the posts I do post, are incredibly long a majority of the time.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm really confused right now, y'know how OFBTs are not nocturnal, well my ofbts go crazy at night but sit around all day. Kinda weird lol


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Fbt123 said:


> I'm really confused right now, y'know how OFBTs are not nocturnal, well my ofbts go crazy at night but sit around all day. Kinda weird lol


It's probably more true to say they are active for periods around the clock, rather than diernal or nocturnal. I find mine spend more time eating during the day, and more time calling and mating at night.


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks Ron, that does make sense.

Here is what the petshop said:

"Hello Thomas,

we currently have 2 Whites Tree frogs in, around the size of a £2 coin, most frogs can be housed together successfully as long as they are similar size so neither gets eaten

thanks

Steph"

Now i know for a fact that whites can eat mice when they're fully grown so I'm sure they'd love to have a munch on a OFBT.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Fbt123 said:


> Thanks Ron, that does make sense.
> 
> Here is what the petshop said:
> 
> ...


 
:gasp:


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ron Magpie said:


> :gasp:


Lol, can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Btw, he didnt notice i said _with_ fbts, he then said that you cannot mix them as their toxins are like battery acid. Fbts are killing machines lol:devil:


----------



## HforHERP (Feb 12, 2013)

Fbt123 said:


> Ok, i am one of those people that need to get firm evidence from multiple sources so i know wether to make a decision or not. Yes, i was expecting an answer like yours but i also wanted to see _other_ peoples' opinions on the matter.


As far as I know, Ron's answer is the best and only source you need concerning FBT's.


But i'll stick my opinion in too :lol2:


The people who say they've managed to co-habit FBT's with other animals may have well been able to do it, FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. The toxin from the FBT's wont kill another frog instantly, but over the years it definitely will.

My advice is to make your nice plated viv, find a nice treefrog for it, and keep your FBT's as they are  That way you get more vivs AND your animals stay safe. Win win.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

HforHERP said:


> *As far as I know, Ron's answer is the best and only source you need concerning FBT's.*
> 
> 
> But i'll stick my opinion in too :lol2:
> ...


Lol- I'm hardly the only person to keep them long-term, but most other serious keepers I've talked to agree about the toxins. And the rest of your advice is spot on! ;-)


----------



## Fbt123 (Jun 30, 2014)

I am definitely never gonna mix frogs now lol. at the pet shop they have a lonely running tiger leg frog (even though the sign for it says tiger leg tree frog). I am thinking about rescuing it as it is lonely  and there was like 4 of them housedcwith 4 fbts in a small viv but it is the last frog in it. all the tiger leg frogs stayed in the top corners of the viv the fbts stayed at the bottom. gotta feel sorry for the littoe guy. now the fun part will be persauding my parents to let me get it. also is it actually a tree frog as they did look very good at climbing


----------

