# adders



## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

is there anyone on here who keeps adders ?:gasp:


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

I think there is a few keepers on here that keep puff adders i think


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm fairly certain someone professed to keeping them not so long ago.

Try searching the forum for Adders and read through the threads I know it will crop up in one of them :2thumb:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

They are kept and bred in Europe, not so much here.


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## bloodpython22 (Feb 19, 2010)

i keep rhombic night adder and puffs soon. but not many people i no of keep british adders as they are very hard to keep alive for long times as they dont do well with stale air, water and everything like that plus its just no worth it


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

sorry guys i meant british adders...:notworthy:


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Take a little look here... :whistling2:

vipera berus babies eating.

EDIT: Although for anybody getting any bright ideas bear in mind these are _captive-bred_ (or captive born?) babies; wild caught adders are still notoriously difficult to keep alive...

Francis


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> Take a little look here... :whistling2:
> 
> vipera berus babies eating.
> 
> ...


There's a German paper somewhere, stating they had success maintaining Adders (of a German locality obviously). They readily fed on mice and bred in captivity. One thing they did make aware was a high frequency of abnormalities in CB neonates.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Speeple said:


> There's a German paper somewhere, stating they had success maintaining Adders (of a German locality obviously). They readily fed on mice and bred in captivity. One thing they did make aware was a high frequency of abnormalities in CB neonates.


There's a link to that paper on the site I posted, just follow the thread onto the second page and use a translation program (also conveniently provided on there). Very interesting stuff.

Francis


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

took this today, pics crap as it was took on my phone


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

got a good look at some today here another pic


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

smart1 said:


> got a good look at some today here another pic
> 
> image
> image


 Great looking snake, good find :2thumb:

I found somewhere local-ish to me last weekend where I was lucky enough to see 5 in an hour, unfortunately I left the camera with the Mrs on the beach. Still when I got back to her the kids managed to spot a common lizard which was great fun


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

they such a nice snake to see, will have to try to find a male next time as there darker, there is even all black ones .. now that would be a nice find:2thumb:


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

smart1 said:


> they such a nice snake to see, will have to try to find a male next time as there darker, there is even all black ones .. now that would be a nice find:2thumb:


 it was actually mostly males I came across and two females both had which were near recently shed skins so I'm assuming the guys had been ganging up on them and they were ovulation sheds. Good to see :2thumb:


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Might not be the best time to disturb females as many will be gravid.

Nice pictures though.


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

Speeple said:


> Might not be the best time to disturb females as many will be gravid.
> 
> Nice pictures though.


 

just had a read and the one in the second pic was real pissed and striking like mad ,so there may have bin a chance she was gravid ... there suppost to be normaly really layed back ,but she wasnt :lol2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> just had a read and the one in the second pic was real pissed and striking like mad ,so there may have bin a chance she was gravid ... there suppost to be normaly really layed back ,but she wasnt :lol2:


Shame your not that smart!

You should be picking up adders and disturbing them, that real poor practice!


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Shame your not that smart!
> 
> You should be picking up adders and disturbing them, that real poor practice!


 
why is it? like i said already on cb ive used the tongs to move the adder to take pics and get a better look,id use my hands but i dont care for a bite , the place were they are is impossible to really observe or take photo's of the snakes unless you take them out of the brush.
and anyway if i wasnt that smart i would have taken a bite wouldnt i ??


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> why is it? like i said already on cb ive used the tongs to move the adder to take pics and get a better look,id use my hands but i dont care for a bite , the place were they are is impossible to really observe or take photo's of the snakes unless you take them out of the brush.
> and anyway if i wasnt that smart i would have taken a bite wouldnt i ??


there is no excuse to pick up an adder in that way just to look at it!
Take photos from a distance and respect the animal.


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> there is no excuse to pick up an adder in that way just to look at it!
> Take photos from a distance and respect the animal.


 
so anyone picking up a snake with tongs is wrong is it ??? ive looked and taken photos of reptiles in the wild since i was 18 im now 37 ... so i think i no how to respect reptiles mate ...


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> just had a read and the one in the second pic was real pissed and striking like mad ,so there may have bin a chance she was gravid ... there suppost to be normaly really layed back ,but she wasnt :lol2:


Well that just shows how little to know or understand about the species.

With regards to you post on using tongs I have studied and worked professional with *Vipera berus* for 30+ years and have never used tongs or any other sort of Grabber (like the one in the image) on any berus ever!


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

To be honest those tongs are brutal if they are the type I think they are (crude mechanical operation with a trigger handle [with little force feedback]?) - more so for Vipera berus (possibly gravid in this case), people don't realise how physically fragile this species is. A hook would be much better, but as has been stated, as little disruption as possible is best.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Speeple said:


> To be honest those tongs are brutal if they are the type I think they are (crude mechanical operation with a trigger handle [with little force feedback]?) - more so for Vipera berus (possibly gravid in this case), people don't realise how physically fragile this species is. A hook would be much better, but as has been stated, as little disruption as possible is best.


My point exactly anyone using such a crude tool should look elsewhere for their entertainment!

Let see what smartypants retorts to that!


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> My point exactly anyone using such a crude tool should look elsewhere for their entertainment!
> 
> Let see what smartypants retorts to that!


 

not even gonna bother as you seem to think you know best so im gonna let you have your moment of glory... so now it isnt that fact im using tongs its the fact there not the right kind?? give me a break


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> not even gonna bother as you seem to think you know best so im gonna let you have your moment of glory... so now it isnt that fact im using tongs its the fact there not the right kind?? give me a break


Point proven!


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

Nice looking adder.. To be honest I have never used tongs to pick up any of my snakes or snakes that I have observed in the wild. I just don't like the mechanics of them, I suppose it's personal preference. I tend to use twigs for support while I tail them or else I simply use a hook. I do use tongs to feed though :whistling2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

snakekeeper said:


> Nice looking adder.. To be honest I have never used tongs to pick up any of my snakes or snakes that I have observed in the wild. I just don't like the mechanics of them, I suppose it's personal preference. I tend to use twigs for support while I tail them or else I simply use a hook. I do use tongs to feed though :whistling2:


I'd not have jumped down the OP's throat if he had used pro type tongs but those things he is using look like the sort of thing I'd use for feeding or picking up litter, certainly capable of poor control and harm to a small delicate snake.


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> I'd not have jumped down the OP's throat if he had used pro type tongs but those things he is using look like the sort of thing I'd use for feeding or picking up litter, certainly capable of poor control and harm to a small delicate snake.


Most tongs aren't really made for handling purposes especially when it comes to handling small venomous snakes. I simply wouldn't ever consider using them personally. Having said that, I'm not that keen on using the rubber head poles, the ones you use to pin down snakes. I am very cautious when I do have to use them but definitely not my favorite tool. I guess I am old fashioned, nothing like a good solid twig or hook


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

first off i did try to use small long twigs but they are so small that a possible bite was deffo on the cards, so just didnt wanna risk it ..thought about getting one of these if this in your option is any better

Midwest Gentle Giant Snake Tong Rattlesnake 40" Tongs on eBay (end time 31-May-10 22:26:47 BST)


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## RedDragon619 (Jan 1, 2010)

my m8 got this pic the other day



wish i was there, not seen 1 since i was about 6 and it wanted to kill me :lol2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

smart1 said:


> first off i did try to use small long twigs but they are so small that a possible bite was deffo on the cards, so just didnt wanna risk it ..thought about getting one of these if this in your option is any better
> 
> Midwest Gentle Giant Snake Tong Rattlesnake 40" Tongs on eBay (end time 31-May-10 22:26:47 BST)


I'm all for people looking at adders but really fail to see why its necessary to handle them in any way. 

I get the impression that you are winding people us if you think that gentle giants are suitable for a small viper.

If you are being serious you need to get a grip on reality and move to a different hobby.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> I'm all for people looking at adders but really fail to see why its necessary to handle them in any way.
> 
> I get the impression that you are winding people us if you think that gentle giants are suitable for a small viper.
> 
> If you are being serious you need to get a grip on reality and move to a different hobby.


I'm not sure GG are suitable for anything from my past experience with them, M1's all the way for me!

D


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

Who needs to handle 'em, I found that they'll come running if the price is right


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

I have just read through this post in full. I tend to read backwards, (from finish to start) a little like some of the people on this forum. I am disgusted – why the hell would you pick up an adder like that? Elapids (to a certain degree can be grabbed by grabbers) but small vipers????? She could quite possibly be in the early stages of pregnancy and you could easily damage her. I respect the fact that you might not be comfortable handling adders, so in which case don’t bother. If you do have to handle them (which we all have from time to time) a small mini hook or stick will do the job fine!

Give them a break, they won’t be around for ever, what with heathland management and idiots using there black mamba survival grabbing gear on them!

Dave


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

pythondave82 said:


> I have just read through this post in full. I tend to read backwards, (from finish to start) a little like some of the people on this forum. I am disgusted – why the hell would you pick up an adder like that? Elapids (to a certain degree can be grabbed by grabbers) but small vipers????? She could quite possibly be in the early stages of pregnancy and you could easily damage her. I respect the fact that you might not be comfortable handling adders, so in which case don’t bother. If you do have to handle them (which we all have from time to time) a small mini hook or stick will do the job fine!
> 
> Give them a break, they won’t be around for ever, what with heathland management and idiots using there black mamba survival grabbing gear on them!
> 
> Dave


In complete agreement Dave, the OP should stick to picking up rubbish and litter with those hideous "tongs" and stay clear of a species he is clearly unfamiliar with!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Im not a big advocate of tongs although i do use them rarely and never for vipers but i have never harmed a waterbowl yet with them:lol2:
As for the barbaric use of those tongs i saw in the OP photos ill STFU tottaly uncalled for. In future if you cant get a photo because its in an inaccesable place FIND ANOTHER ONE and leave it alone they are a protected species and in my opinion you are verging on braking the law there


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

RedDragon619 said:


> my m8 got this pic the other day
> 
> [URL="http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab191/Mike-The-Snake-Man/Random%20Rep%20Stuff/adder.jpg"]image[/URL]
> 
> wish i was there, not seen 1 since i was about 6 and it wanted to kill me :lol2:


 
thats a nice pic, wish the ones i found were in grass like that .. ive bin down were i go just under a week now and have seen males,mostly females and one all black one aswell ...
wanted to get a picture of the black one but was off before i could say cheese


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## RedDragon619 (Jan 1, 2010)

smart1 said:


> thats a nice pic, wish the ones i found were in grass like that .. ive bin down were i go just under a week now and have seen males,mostly females and one all black one aswell ...
> wanted to get a picture of the black one but was off before i could say cheese


he took it from miles back (which isnt a bad thing :whistling2

He is very scared of snakes and he wont stay in my frontroom when i get my royals out, but then i do laugh at him (even go's when i get the baby corns out :lol2

im gunna go on a hunt for them 1 day, i would love to get some close pics :mf_dribble:


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

smart1 said:


> first off i did try to use small long twigs but they are so small that a possible bite was deffo on the cards, so just didnt wanna risk it ..thought about getting one of these if this in your option is any better
> 
> Midwest Gentle Giant Snake Tong Rattlesnake 40" Tongs on eBay (end time 31-May-10 22:26:47 BST)


Those tongs aren't that bad but there is a European version which is slightly cheaper, I forget the name. Again, I personally don't like using them for handling as they can be a little uncontrollable if you are trying to handle a large, quick, feisty snake. The main problem with handling tongs is that when you are trying to handle a large, quick, feisty snake you tend to panic when it wriggles with force and clamp down with too much unnecessary pressure which can cause stress and damage to the snake. I had a mate who tried handling a FWC with a smaller version of the midwest tongs above and believe me the snake wasn't having any of it. Needless to say it wriggled straight out of the grip he held it with. Imagine trying to handle an adult Dendroaspis polylepis with them :gasp:


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

they may look big and nasty but i can grip harder with my finger than them tongs can ..... i didnt come on this section for a slagging match so mr slippery i dont see why you seem to be so intent of having one ?
tell you what ill give you the location and you can come down and show me how to do it ok !:2thumb:


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

smart1 said:


> they may look big and nasty but i can grip harder with my finger than them tongs can ..... i didnt come on this section for a slagging match so mr slippery i dont see why you seem to be so intent of having one ?
> tell you what ill give you the location and you can come down and show me how to do it ok !:2thumb:


I don't really think he's trying to gain man points over this, I think everyone would just appreciate it if you conceded those trigger grippers aren't the best apparatus to "handle" Adders which are fragile snakes (not to mention, possibly gravid females).


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## JohnR (Jan 1, 2010)

Over here there is a local company that makes great tongs, I even think they are safer than Midwests gentle giants. What is different about these is the upper jaw of the tong is curved and the gap is bridged with a leather strap, thats not too tight and so molds to the shape of the animal when 'grabbed' but at the same time protects the animal from over zealous action.

I'm sure I have seen them in Europe or possibly the States to. It would probably be easy to adapt those tongs shown on here and reduce the chance of causing accidental harm.



John


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

Speeple said:


> I don't really think he's trying to gain man points over this, I think everyone would just appreciate it if you conceded those trigger grippers aren't the best apparatus to "handle" Adders which are fragile snakes (not to mention, possibly gravid females).


 
i disagree, comments like go find another hobby ect ect isnt giving me good advise is it, my offer stands


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

smart1 said:


> i disagree, comments like go find another hobby ect ect isnt giving me good advise is it, my offer stands


Look, too be totally honest with you, you aren't the first nor will you be the last to handle adders in the UK with tongs or other forceful contraptions so I wouldn't take things to heart. I think that some in here are simply sick to death of hearing about people mishandling adders and you innocently have taken the brunt of it. If you need to handle adders you really don't have to use tongs, as I said before, a nice long twig or a hook would be more than acceptable and I very much doubt you will be bitten if you have experience using hooks. I twig and tail vipera ammodytes on a regular basis when out herping and have never once been threatened by them. Of course there are some snakes like the blunt nose viper where I personally wouldn't dream of using a twig, but a hook to handle them.


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