# easy-expert species too keep?



## mattsdragons (Jul 6, 2009)

ello all!

i was just wondering, there must be some DWA species that are easier too keep than others. things like corns etc are fairly easy were as snakes such as GTP's are (as far as i know) considered quite hard too keep. 

it must be the same for DWA species aswell?

(also, i know its quite a dumb question but i have no idea about the care of DWA snakes :lol2


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## oscar96 (Nov 7, 2009)

All I can say is that when you wrote "as far as you know" about gtp's means that you haven't got a big knowledge about snakes in general, so don't bother with DWA, get yourself a boiga sp. or hydrodynastes which you don't need licence for but i wouldn't even bother thinking about going any further than that if i was you...:whistling2:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

yea you right some are harder than others


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## mattsdragons (Jul 6, 2009)

oscar96 said:


> All I can say is that when you wrote "as far as you know" about gtp's means that you haven't got a big knowledge about snakes in general, so don't bother with DWA, get yourself a boiga sp. or hydrodynastes which you don't need licence for but i wouldn't even bother thinking about going any further than that if i was you...:whistling2:


i am by no means thinking of of getting a dwa. i was just curious, thats all : victory:

i am only 14 i might add. im just looking too learn


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

if im honest as wonderfull as venomous snakes are if you are looking to learn about snakes then i would start to learn about non venomous first. Remember there are around 3000 species of snake and only around 300 are venomous. if you can keep the harder non venomous snakes alive you will keep the harder venomous ones too. but remember there are a lot of venomous snakes which are extreamly hard to keep due to being aquatic.


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## mattsdragons (Jul 6, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> if im honest as wonderfull as venomous snakes are if you are looking to learn about snakes then i would start to learn about non venomous first. Remember there are around 3000 species of snake and only around 300 are venomous. if you can keep the harder non venomous snakes alive you will keep the harder venomous ones too. but remember there are a lot of venomous snakes which are extreamly hard to keep due to being aquatic.


very true. i only said 'as fas as i know' about GTP's as i do not have any experience with them or know anyone who does. i was just going on what i read : victory:


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

oscar96 said:


> All I can say is that when you wrote "as far as you know" about gtp's means that you haven't got a big knowledge about snakes in general, so don't bother with DWA, get yourself a boiga sp. or hydrodynastes which you don't need licence for but i wouldn't even bother thinking about going any further than that if i was you...:whistling2:


Why does this mean that he does not have a large knowledge about snakes in general? Maybe he has just not chosen to learn about GTP's yet. He may know everything there is to know about all other types of non venemous snakes. I would not know how to look after a king snake but I have a GTP and she is very happy, why? coz I found out how to care for it. If I did want to keep a king snake tho guess what I would do? ask someone on here just like the OP has done. Plus has the OP stated that he has an interest in getting into hots? I dont think so. He is simply asking a question, why is it so hard to give them an answer?



leecb0 said:


> yea you right some are harder than others


Think he was maybe looking to find out some examples



leecb0 said:


> if im honest as wonderfull as venomous snakes are if you are looking to learn about snakes then i would start to learn about non venomous first. Remember there are around 3000 species of snake and only around 300 are venomous. if you can keep the harder non venomous snakes alive you will keep the harder venomous ones too. but remember there are a lot of venomous snakes which are extreamly hard to keep due to being aquatic.


Stress again this person has not expressed an interest in keeping hots he has simply asked a question. Even if he was why is it esential he has a vast knowledge of all other snakes first? You dont see people wanting to buy a corn snake going away and reasearching how to keep every other type of snake. Technically if they wanted to get into hots and they did their research on how to keep it alive and what the dangers were it wont matter squat about what he knows about keeping a corn snake or any other non venemous snake. 

I have no interest in keeping hots and probably never will do but that does not mean I dont like to learn some facts about them or like looking at the pictures. Every time I come on this section to see if I can learn anything new or look at some nice pics I come accross a thread where someone has asked a question and they have received nothing but abuse. I think that the people who keep hots need to get off their high horse and stop thinking they are some kind of pedastall. What is wrong with just answering the question??????
If someone asked the same question in the snakes section they would get an answer along the lines of something like a corn/royal/boa is the easiest to keep and somehting like a GTP/ETB/FWC are the hardest. 

I am sure you will now all tell me that I should go and do some research before I think about getting hots but fact is I would quite like to know the answer to this question but I have never asked it as I know I will never find out the answer coz you will all just give me abuse and you probably will now for voicing my opinion but f:censor:k it. I am beginning to doubt you know anything at all as you never provide an answer.

Rant over.


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## chulainn (Nov 29, 2009)

i am geussing that coral snakes would be pretty hard and dangerous because you would need to keep and aquarium aswell right?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

russm said:


> Why does this mean that he does not have a large knowledge about snakes in general? Maybe he has just not chosen to learn about GTP's yet. He may know everything there is to know about all other types of non venemous snakes. I would not know how to look after a king snake but I have a GTP and she is very happy, why? coz I found out how to care for it. If I did want to keep a king snake tho guess what I would do? ask someone on here just like the OP has done. Plus has the OP stated that he has an interest in getting into hots? I dont think so. He is simply asking a question, why is it so hard to give them an answer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow dude take a chill pill ffs.......
firstly the first post of mine was a joke.....its called having a sence of humour. secondly my next thread was not about him getting VENOMOUS it was about his ubderstanding of snakes in general and it was supposed to be a suggestion. I f you are looking to learn about anything you should always start at the beggining should you not? asking about something more advanced would not be the best way if you are really wanting to learn, fact is when it comes to keeping snakes there are proberbly 5 ways or so to keep the majority so weather its non venomous or venomous it makes no difference the husbandry requirements for desert snakes or forest snakes are pretty much the same. Also if you went on to the snake forum and asked the question you would get dozens of different answers because there are so many snakes that different people have kept that everybodys opinion would be different some might say GTP are hard to keep others would say they are easy the same would be true in the venomous side of things its really only the handling that sets them apart not the husbandry.
So as for the abuse...i didnt give any ...but you did....
and as for an answer if you read my post i think i did mention that the hardest venomous snakes to keep would be aquatic snakes.....or did you miss that?....


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> wow dude take a chill pill ffs.......
> firstly the first post of mine was a joke.....its called having a sence of humour. secondly my next thread was not about him getting VENOMOUS it was about his ubderstanding of snakes in general and it was supposed to be a suggestion. I f you are looking to learn about anything you should always start at the beggining should you not? asking about something more advanced would not be the best way if you are really wanting to learn, fact is when it comes to keeping snakes there are proberbly 5 ways or so to keep the majority so weather its non venomous or venomous it makes no difference the husbandry requirements for desert snakes or forest snakes are pretty much the same. Also if you went on to the snake forum and asked the question you would get dozens of different answers because there are so many snakes that different people have kept that everybodys opinion would be different some might say GTP are hard to keep others would say they are easy the same would be true in the venomous side of things its really only the handling that sets them apart not the husbandry.
> So as for the abuse...i didnt give any ...but you did....
> and as for an answer if you read my post i think i did mention that the hardest venomous snakes to keep would be aquatic snakes.....or did you miss that?....


 Second that a malayian pit viper would have the same husbandry requirements as say a malayian blood python. Now obviously the pit viper likes to climb and the others a slug but temps humidity etc are the same. Like Leecbo mentioned its only handling that sets them apart. I dont keep any venomous but to me its obvious.: victory:


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## jonny cichla (Apr 6, 2008)

id recommend alot of reading 1st as your only 14 buddy! and i think its good that new people wont to lern about dwa! and the husbandry of these awsome snakes!
And id say things like Feas vipers are hard to keep in my opinion!


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> wow dude take a chill pill ffs.......
> firstly the first post of mine was a joke.....its called having a sence of humour (sorry mate I missed the humour part of it. Just thought it was another cheeky answer). secondly my next thread was not about him getting VENOMOUS it was about his ubderstanding of snakes in general and it was supposed to be a suggestion. I f you are looking to learn about anything you should always start at the beggining should you not? (yeah of course but you dont need to start at the beginning of the whole subject. You could quite easily find out information on a specific part and only deal with that one part of the subject whatever it may be. That was what I was trying to get at when I used the king snake example.) asking about something more advanced would not be the best way if you are really wanting to learn, fact is when it comes to keeping snakes there are proberbly 5 ways or so to keep the majority so weather its non venomous or venomous it makes no difference the husbandry requirements for desert snakes or forest snakes are pretty much the same. (I also understand what you are saying here with the varying opinions but if you think about it there would really be no need to have the forum at all as that is what it is for, people giving their opinions and others using them to learn.) Also if you went on to the snake forum and asked the question you would get dozens of different answers because there are so many snakes that different people have kept that everybodys opinion would be different some might say GTP are hard to keep others would say they are easy the same would be true in the venomous side of things its really only the handling that sets them apart not the husbandry.(Again, I agree with youbut the difference is that people give their opinions and you can take it or leave it. All you ever get in this section is "you are not experienced enough to keep hots" type answers. All I am wanting to know is what is wrong with just answering the question?)
> So as for the abuse...i didnt give any ...but you did....(You have missunderstood my useage of the word abuse just as I have missunderstood your use of humour earlier. I use it meaning that people just get made to feel inadequate((SP??)) rather than just getting a straight forward answer which is what they are after. As for me being abusive, yes to a certain extent I am being but that is purely a bit of a build up of annoyance. I have been wanting to say something about the nature of the responses to non hot keepers for a while and it has unfortunatley all come out in this thread. I dont mean to have a personal dig at youhave taken it very much the wrong way I appologise. I am just trying to get a point accross that it seems like you guys never just answer a question it always comes accross as if you think you are better than everyone else coz you are brave enough to keep hots. )
> and as for an answer if you read my post i think i did mention that the hardest venomous snakes to keep would be aquatic snakes.....or did you miss that?....(no I saw that but it has taken 2-3 posts of junk before the guy eventually gets some kind of an answer right at the end of a post.)


.....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

C.atrox are bomb proof


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

russm said:


> I have no interest in keeping hots and probably never will do but that does not mean I dont like to learn some facts about them or like looking at the pictures. Every time I come on this section to see if I can learn anything new or look at some nice pics I come accross a thread where someone has asked a question and they have received nothing but abuse. I think that the people who keep hots need to get off their high horse and stop thinking they are some kind of pedastall. What is wrong with just answering the question??????
> If someone asked the same question in the snakes section they would get an answer along the lines of something like a corn/royal/boa is the easiest to keep and somehting like a GTP/ETB/FWC are the hardest.


Well said :2thumb:


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## skimsa (Sep 28, 2007)

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dont go getting a Falsie as a 'trainer snake' they will nail you, there will be blood, pain, arguments, crying, war,famine and YOU PEOPLE will be to blame :bash:


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

*dwa*

hi all in relation to the post what is easier to keep surely you are all missing the point, who really wants to keep those wriggly things that can kill you. its far better to keep crocs,gators and heloderma now they are far more fun!!!!!!!!! what say you lee?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

chulainn said:


> i am geussing that coral snakes would be pretty hard and dangerous because you would need to keep and aquarium aswell right?


Most of the "coral" snakes I know of (_Micrurus_, _Calliophis_) are terrestrial or burrowing species, not aquatic ones.... 

That said, from what I've been told about my favourite species -_ Calliophis bivirgata_ - they're not easy to keep, not easy to keep alive, pretty much dedicated snake eaters and you don't see much of them either because they stay under the substrate most of the time. I think I'd rather have a pink-headed reed snake at that point; it looks similar, but is an invert-feeder and non-venomous.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

TEG said:


> hi all in relation to the post what is easier to keep surely you are all missing the point, who really wants to keep those wriggly things that can kill you. its far better to keep crocs,gators and heloderma now they are far more fun!!!!!!!!! what say you lee?


i am coming round mate i have just taken in a bloody Nile minitor......lol
Im sorry i let you down with the hog mate had a few problems over Xmas but ill catch up with you at some point im sure.......hows the (trio) you got recently any signs?????


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

*dwa*

a Nile!!!!! 
no probs with the hog mate its already gone.
all the new babies are sleeping atm hope to wake them up feb ish then feed up and hope for the best.still have salvator eggs cooking though its been nearly 6 months now. did you manage to source me any more gators?
all the best


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## blowupcavs (Sep 1, 2007)

as far as i know most venomous snake need venom to hunt, but if they become stressed they then can not produce it. i have a tiny knoledge of snakes ( big of lizards though) and i work in a pet store wherei care and feed snakes, i have been lucky enough to own a ETB for about 5 months with no help. the snake was in great health so i think you could lay off each other because research cant hurt and who knows they could keep one happily if they did the right research


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

blowupcavs said:


> as far as i know most venomous snake need venom to hunt, but if they become stressed they then can not produce it. i have a tiny knoledge of snakes ( big of lizards though) and i work in a pet store wherei care and feed snakes, i have been lucky enough to own a ETB for about 5 months with no help. the snake was in great health so i think you could lay off each other because research cant hurt and who knows they could keep one happily if they did the right research


Not looking to get in to an arguement but the thread is about captive care so the venom part of your reply is a little irrelevent. but you are to a degree correct about researching an animal is vital in helping you keep the snake or what ever it is you are looking to keep. But there is nothing better than gaining knowledge through keeping a wide veriaty of snakes and learning from them its the best way to leard......snakes dont read books and sometimes doing things "by the book" can result in poor result


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

blowupcavs said:


> who knows they could keep one happily if they did the right research


The point people were trying to stress is nothing to do with the husbandry aspect of venomous snake keeping. As Si said, Crotalus atrox are very easy to care for, and as you rightly said, with a little homework and experience, challenges relating to husbandry can easily be overcome, but the paramount point is the handling. You can research all you want, or pick an easy species, but the issue of whether or not you can safely handle the animal, or work around it, should always be a major concern.
When people on this section of the forum seem harsh, that's not their intention. They're being realistic. All we want is for people to appreciate the difficulties of keeping venomous snakes, not the easy bits.
If someone starts a question with "I don't want to keep venomous snakes but....." I personally don't believe them. The very fact they asked the question means the thought of keeping them is on their mind. And while it may be a pipe dream, if all they hear is how easy certain species can be then the seed could grow. The likely outcome is they would never obtain the snake, and if they applied for the licence they'd fall at the first hurdle, but what if they didn't? What if they got a western diamondback? It might be easy to keep alive, but then they have to change the water bowl....
Take my point?


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

blowupcavs said:


> as far as i know most venomous snake need venom to hunt, but if they become stressed they then can not produce it.


Partly true, although the stress isn't the direct cause of lack of venom production. A stressed snake is likely to stop feeding. Venom production requires dietry protein. No food means no dietry proteins, no dietry proteins means no new venom produced. They will still have stored venom, but it does lose potency with age. It does not however mean that they become non-venomous. The stress will probably kill them before they stopped being able to kill you.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

The thing I find interesting now is the negative attitude that occurs when a legitimate hot's keeper posts???

In my opinion being able to handle a venomous snake is the pinicle of the hobby, the only way to gain the experience is to experience keeping varied snakes.

To say reading up on hots is sufficient to know how to keep them is like saying you will win the grand prix on the back of reading the highway code.

I see the OP's post as asking what species of venomous are the hardest to mainitain and I think Lee answered pretty well with reference to the highly venomous aquatic species.

BTW sstisto very pleased to see the mod status, you are an incredibly knowledgable keeper and a wordsmith to boot: victory:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

paulds said:


> The thing I find interesting now is the negative attitude that occurs when a legitimate hot's keeper posts???
> 
> In my opinion being able to handle a venomous snake is the pinicle of the hobby, the only way to gain the experience is to experience keeping varied snakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for backing us up Paul. It seems all too often these days we can't say right for saying wrong. It's nice when people realise we aren't all bad.
Cheers buddy.


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

paulds said:


> The thing I find interesting now is the negative attitude that occurs when a legitimate hot's keeper posts???
> 
> In my opinion being able to handle a venomous snake is the pinicle of the hobby, the only way to gain the experience is to experience keeping varied snakes.
> 
> ...


*i never noticed that cogradulations sstisto

*i agree i hate seeing the dwa keepers always getting bashed on here for nothing more than giing their views


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

tomwilson said:


> *i never noticed that cogradulations sstisto*
> 
> i agree i hate seeing the dwa keepers always getting bashed on here for nothing more than giing their views


Thanks for that mate. Trust me, it gets old pretty quick. I've lost count of the times I've been told "you think you're better than everyone else".


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## btahthezone1 (Oct 7, 2009)

In my opinion it seems this thread has been taken over the top and there isn't a need the lad was asking a question and someone should have answered it but on the other hand if he wants to learn and is asking questions then as animal lovers and most of all snake lovers people have thier own mind to say what they think.

so if they feel the lad would need to be reassured about checking out non-vem animals then why are people going on a mad for? they are just looking out for snakes in general and telling the young lad to look around at other snakes which are not dangerous. 

But what do i know hey


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

btahthezone1 said:


> so if they feel the lad would need to be reassured about checking out non-vem animals then why are people going on a mad for? they are just looking out for snakes in general and telling the young lad to look around at other snakes which are not dangerous./QUOTE]
> 
> You got it spot on mate. All we want is for people to care for their animals and stay safe. We often seem harsh saying it, but it's never meant with malice. People underestimate how dangerous this side of the hobby can be if they aren't prepared, so we often seem to be banging on and on and going over the top. People just don't like being told what to do or having their ability questioned though, so they take it personally and it becomes a much bigger deal than it needs to be.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

terciopelo_dave said:


> Thanks for backing us up Paul. It seems all too often these days we can't say right for saying wrong. It's nice when people realise we aren't all bad.
> Cheers buddy.


Dude, some people are very appreciative of the experience you are happy to share:no1:



tomwilson said:


> *i never noticed that cogradulations sstisto*
> 
> i agree i hate seeing the dwa keepers always getting bashed on here for nothing more than giing their views


Thats the point! They are just views, albeit views of people that the people who get lemon are asking questions of but views none the less.: victory:



btahthezone1 said:


> In my opinion it seems this thread has been taken over the top and there isn't a need the lad was asking a question and someone should have answered it but on the other hand if he wants to learn and is asking questions then as animal lovers and most of all snake lovers people have thier own mind to say what they think.
> 
> so if they feel the lad would need to be reassured about checking out non-vem animals then why are people going on a mad for? they are just looking out for snakes in general and telling the young lad to look around at other snakes which are not dangerous.
> 
> But what do i know hey


I have no idea what you know about snakes but there is no faulting your logic:2thumb:


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

terciopelo_dave said:


> The point people were trying to stress is nothing to do with the husbandry aspect of venomous snake keeping. As Si said, Crotalus atrox are very easy to care for, and as you rightly said, with a little homework and experience, challenges relating to husbandry can easily be overcome, but the paramount point is the handling. You can research all you want, or pick an easy species, but the issue of whether or not you can safely handle the animal, or work around it, should always be a major concern.
> When people on this section of the forum seem harsh, that's not their intention. They're being realistic. All we want is for people to appreciate the difficulties of keeping venomous snakes, not the easy bits.
> *If someone starts a question with "I don't want to keep venomous snakes but....." I personally don't believe them*. The very fact they asked the question means the thought of keeping them is on their mind. And while it may be a pipe dream, if all they hear is how easy certain species can be then the seed could grow. The likely outcome is they would never obtain the snake, and if they applied for the licence they'd fall at the first hurdle, but what if they didn't? What if they got a western diamondback? It might be easy to keep alive, but then they have to change the water bowl....
> Take my point?


That is nonsence, unless it is just me that likes to know things just incase you ever get asked the question or just fo the sake of expanding your knowledge. I have never been to nor do I have any intention of ever going to afghanistan but I can still tell you that it is in Asia and the capital is Kabul. I must have learnt that somewhere for not really any reason as I have never researched it. Do you see where I am coming from?



paulds said:


> The thing I find interesting now is the negative attitude that occurs when a legitimate hot's keeper posts???
> 
> In my opinion being able to handle a venomous snake is the pinicle of the hobby, the only way to gain the experience is to experience keeping varied snakes.
> 
> ...





terciopelo_dave said:


> Thanks for that mate. Trust me, it gets old pretty quick. I've lost count of the times I've been told "you think you're better than everyone else".


I am afraid to say that you bring that upon yourselves with the responses you give to questions. If you are tired of hearing it then it must mean you hear it a lot which must mean you are giving people reason to believe that it is true. Even if the OP does want to get a hot do you not think it would be better to offer some advice rather than tell them they dont know enough. You kow as well as I do that there are people out there who will go and get one anyway even if they are told not to so sureley it is better to offer some information possibly with a firendly warning rather than just jumping in and saying you dont know enough to keep hots etc?

I cant emphasis enough how much I dont want to start a war over this as keeping hots is really the pinacle of the hobby and you guys are brave to be prepared to attempt looking after something that could kill you and I am sure you do ahve a wealth of experience. However that fact remains that you are making people, who are simply asking a question, feel like you are all quite arrogant and that you are unwilling to help or offer any answers.


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Most of the "coral" snakes I know of (_Micrurus_, _Calliophis_) are terrestrial or burrowing species, not aquatic ones....
> 
> That said, from what I've been told about my favourite species -_ Calliophis bivirgata_ - they're not easy to keep, not easy to keep alive, pretty much dedicated snake eaters and you don't see much of them either because they stay under the substrate most of the time. I think I'd rather have a pink-headed reed snake at that point; it looks similar, but is an invert-feeder and non-venomous.


They are one of my favourites also. I have yet to come across someone who has kept one alive and healthy for any length of time, but that doesn't mean much.

When I last checked there was no a.v either so a bite would not be good. 

It's a shame because they are stunning and it was be brilliant to see them thrive in captivity.


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## btahthezone1 (Oct 7, 2009)

paulds said:


> I have no idea what you know about snakes but there is no faulting your logic:2thumb:


The truth is i'm a begginer. I have had one snake which was a corn which came to me from a person who actually couldn't give a damn about the animals condition and I wasn't really interested in getting a snake before then. But after having this snake even though it was too aggressive to handle and in the end I never had the time to take time in the animal as i'm taking a course of animal care and management level 3 and then hoping to ethier get a job in a zoo, rspca or even go universty and do zoology i decided the best thing was to give the snake to someone who I know has had prior knowledge with this type of thing. But that little fellow has no widen my interests and I am looking into purchase another snake and learning from there. I am really learning with college and this forum which i find very helpful to be honest with you.

But i feel some people on here are too quick to jump on the defensive without even thinking wait hold on there may be some interesting logics that people have to say. I don't claim to have knowledge galour but what i do have is the willingness to learn and people also need to take on that view when asking questions. Anyways enough of me babbling on i could go on forever :blush:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

russm said:


> That is nonsence, unless it is just me that likes to know things just incase you ever get asked the question or just fo the sake of expanding your knowledge. I have never been to nor do I have any intention of ever going to afghanistan but I can still tell you that it is in Asia and the capital is Kabul. I must have learnt that somewhere for not really any reason as I have never researched it. Do you see where I am coming from?
> 
> Hi Russ,
> You're quite right in saying that expanding knowledge is a good thing, and that certainly isn't what annoys people. To clarify my point, I have no issues whatsoever in giving anyone a straight answer if I feel the question is born out of genuine interest or curiosity. My arguement is with the prefix "I don't want to keep venomous snakes". What purpose does that serve? Just ask the question. Don't state you don't want to keep the animals you're asking how to keep, it invalidates the query and makes me think that the asker protests to much. It could just be my mindset, and if it is I apologise, but judging by the responses of other keepers, it isn't just me. Also, it's the seeming inability of people to check what questions have already been asked. It's been said before but it's a fact that there is only a small group of individuals on this section of the forum who can answer the questions, compared to say the snake forum where there are hundreds of people able to answer. This means that any repetition is far more noticable and far more irritating.
> ...


I have no desire to argue either, but as I said, it's never the person asking the question who has a pop. It's invariably some clueless idiot who just doesn't like that we're doing something they can't. They come on, hurl insults, then disappear. They never qualify why they think they know what they're talking about. They make wild claims of authority, usually obviously based entirely on uninformed opinions, and seem totally unwilling, if not actually unable to enter into a civil debate. 

Finally, every venomous snake keeper is human. We're just normal people who like snakes and have bothered to put in the effort to get good at handling and husbandry. We chat, we laugh, we go out for a pint, just like everyone else. But like everyone else, we also get wound up, annoyed, or insulted.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

btahthezone1 said:


> But i feel some people on here are too quick to jump on the defensive without even thinking wait hold on there may be some interesting logics that people have to say. I don't claim to have knowledge galour but what i do have is the willingness to learn and people also need to take on that view when asking questions. Anyways enough of me babbling on i could go on forever :blush:


There's a reason for this mate. Previously on this forum we've been criticised when we do answer and insulted when we don't. The expectation then is that every question will descend into a fight whatever answer we give, so the guards go up. 
It's always said that you should sing like no one can hear you and love like you've never been hurt. That's a lot easier said than done.


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## btahthezone1 (Oct 7, 2009)

terciopelo_dave said:


> There's a reason for this mate. Previously on this forum we've been criticised when we do answer and insulted when we don't. The expectation then is that every question will descend into a fight whatever answer we give, so the guards go up.
> It's always said that you should sing like no one can hear you and love like you've never been hurt. That's a lot easier said than done.


op

I can understand your point mate but people seem to come on here to cause arguments. These people ain't worth typing about mate so don't even let them get to you at the end of the day people who keep venomous snakes are my opinion professionals and something which many people can't and won't ever get to that level

the stories or pictures interest me on this forum and if i wanted to learn something i would ask questions. Maybe one day I would want to own venomous snakes but that may be a long time away and may never happen. I can understand how pissed off and annoyed when these people come on her shooting their mouth off but the truth is they are amateurs and you people are better than that. 

Keep up the good work and enjoy yourself and don't let little minded people get on your nerves they ain't worth the hassle :2thumb:


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *paulds*  
_Why do all the hots keepers always say that you cant use experiences with any non venemous snake to prepare yourself for keeping hots then?_


With ref to getting broad experience of snakes not preparing you for hots, I would say that is true as getting repeatedly hit by a non venomous snake gets on your tits but won't kill you but having that broad experience is preferable to no experience: victory:


btahthezone1 said:


> The truth is i'm a begginer. I have had one snake which was a corn which came to me from a person who actually couldn't give a damn about the animals condition and I wasn't really interested in getting a snake before then. But after having this snake even though it was too aggressive to handle and in the end I never had the time to take time in the animal as i'm taking a course of animal care and management level 3 and then hoping to ethier get a job in a zoo, rspca or even go universty and do zoology i decided the best thing was to give the snake to someone who I know has had prior knowledge with this type of thing. But that little fellow has no widen my interests and I am looking into purchase another snake and learning from there. I am really learning with college and this forum which i find very helpful to be honest with you.
> 
> But i feel some people on here are too quick to jump on the defensive without even thinking wait hold on there may be some interesting logics that people have to say. I don't claim to have knowledge galour but what i do have is the willingness to learn and people also need to take on that view when asking questions. Anyways enough of me babbling on i could go on forever :blush:


Dude what you did with the snake is right, people attach too much sentiment to snakes, they couldn't care less who cares for them as long as they are cared for well.

With ref the defensiveness that can be perceived, sometimes it is a simple misinterpretation of text, unfortunately it is hard to guage real sentiment from written word.

Sometimes however it is genuine defensiveness but this is brought about by the fact a lot of these guys have dedicated a large portion of life and wallet to the hobby and to see the same old jokers turn up over and over again with new user names gets a bit much, it also gives the impression that this section is full of forum Meldrew's but it couldn't be further from the truth, they are much worse:whistling2:


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

Owzy said:


> They are one of my favourites also. I have yet to come across someone who has kept one alive and healthy for any length of time, but that doesn't mean much.
> 
> When I last checked there was no a.v either so a bite would not be good.
> 
> It's a shame because they are stunning and it was be brilliant to see them thrive in captivity.


You're right Owen, they make useless captives. This one was in my possession for a few months and then in a friends for nearly 2 years. It would only eat defrost cornsnakes but did once eat a stillborn albino WDB.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

southwest vipers said:


> You're right Owen, they make useless captives. This one was in my possession for a few months and then in a friends for nearly 2 years. It would only eat defrost cornsnakes but did once eat a stillborn albino WDB.
> image
> image
> image


Absolutely stunning, Kudos :2thumb:


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

When I read these types of posts I really find it difficult to be bothered to reply, however, I will attempt to electrify my digits in order to respond. Nobody is obliged to give answers in here it's all voluntary and dependent on attitude and respect. Keeping venomous reptiles isn't macho and certainly isn't for the faint hearted either. The answer to the original post isn't the easiest to respond to because every venomous reptile is a potential risk. If they are DWA then there is a reason for it. I find the best answer to these types of posts is a non-response.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

snakekeeper said:


> When I read these types of posts I really find it difficult to be bothered to reply, however, I will attempt to electrify my digits in order to respond. Nobody is obliged to give answers in here it's all voluntary and dependent on attitude and respect. Keeping venomous reptiles isn't macho and certainly isn't for the faint hearted either. The answer to the original post isn't the easiest to respond to because every venomous reptile is a potential risk. If they are DWA then there is a reason for it. I find the best answer to these types of posts is a non-response.


In light of all the crap thats been thrown around I'd (regrettably) agree.

It's a shame as the OP seemed genuine, I don't think though that the question was what is the easiest from a handling perspective but from a husbandry point of view, although as I write I realise the two aren't really that seperate an issue:whistling2:


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## russm (Aug 28, 2009)

terciopelo_dave said:


> I have no desire to argue either, but as I said, it's never the person asking the question who has a pop. I would imagine that this is because they would feel like they have not been made welcome and they probably just want to not bother having any other dealings with the DWA section. It's invariably some clueless idiot who just doesn't like that we're doing something they can't. I am far from clueless although I dont have a wind knowledge of DWA animals but that is coz I have not chosen to learn anything yet. I also know that I could become capable of keeping them should I choose to do so. They come on, hurl insults, then disappear. They never qualify why they think they know what they're talking about. They make wild claims of authority, usually obviously based entirely on uninformed opinions, and seem totally unwilling, if not actually unable to enter into a civil debate. I dont intend to disappear nor do I intend to claim that I know more than any of the people in this section because I dont. I hope I dont seem to be claiming to be in a position of authority coz I am not and my opinions are solely based on the things I have read. It may be down to the way I have interpreted the things that have been said. I am sure you are all nice enough guys and I am quite happy to listen to everyones opinions and take them on board. I have perhaps been a bit angry in this thread but as mentioned before this is a build up of my annoyance that has sadly all been released in this thread.
> 
> Finally, every venomous snake keeper is human. We're just normal people who like snakes and have bothered to put in the effort to get good at handling and husbandry. We chat, we laugh, we go out for a pint, just like everyone else. But like everyone else, we also get wound up, annoyed, or insulted. I understand this and I am sure it is true. All I am getting at is that the non DWA people dont like it either and it comes across as when we ask any questions in this section that we get insulted by being told that we dont know enough to keep snakes. I feel insulted when I get these kind of responses when all I am looking for is a simple answer to a straight forward question. Judging from a couple of other replies in this thread there are other people out there who feel the same.


Anyway my apologies to anyone who I has taken offence to any of my comments, they were not meant in that way. I was simply trying to find the answer to a question which, due to my annoyance, I have not done in the best way. I am known for having a rather short fuse and slight anger management issues :lol2:.


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