# Why only mice and rats?



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

As title says, why only them? Why not hamsters and gerbils etc.. just out of curiosity lol..


----------



## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Some frozen suppliers sell other rodents.


----------



## Jasoon (Dec 14, 2009)

I think they're the easiest to breed, not sure though and maybe because people find it's okay to freeze a stinking rat or a mouse but not a vute little hamster? I don't know, I hate all rodents, but yeah lol.


----------



## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Me and the missus have had countless hamsters between us so would be a little morally wrong to feed them. Gerbils however, the wife can't stand them so would be more than happy to lob a few of those freaky fluffy abominations in.


----------



## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

The suppliers do sell hamsters, gerbils etc too, but they cost alot more for shops to buy in. We actually found hamster pinkys got a few none-feeder hognose hatchlings eating.


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

Aww so its nothing to do with them being unsafe for consumption? just curious because im wanting to have some pinkies available for when im breeding my basilisks so the females can catch up on weight loss but i cant find mice anywhere! Ive tried all the local petshops, pets at home, acorn, everywhere but to no avail! haha.. so is there any nutritional differences?


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

Oh forgot to say, im planning on breeding but not all the time, only when i need a few so the adults will be kept as pets


----------



## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

If your not after many pinkies buying them frozen from a rep shop would be cheaper than buying a pair or more of animals, then housing them, waiting till they are of breeding size, feeding them and the time spend handling and cleaning them, unless your looking for a new pets too and killing 2 birds with one stone.

I dont know about nutritional wise but I wouldnt think it was much different. When we went to the snake show in houten they were selling live rodents to breed/use as feeders and I was amazed at the amount of dwarf hamsters available there, so they cant be bad 

Edit: Actually the reason its mostly rats and mice used could be down to cohabbiting better? Weve never had our mice fight or kill each other but ive had a good few incidents with dwarf hamsters fighting and killing each other. Mice and rats are more social with each other I think hamsters, gerbils etc are a bit more of a risk.


----------



## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I use my syrians for food when I have surplus.
My royals love them.


----------



## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Alot of people use a wide variety of rodents. Guinea pigs too. Also other birds , duck, quail, chicken chick....I always wanted a turkey chick for christmas :lol2:

They do vary in nutrition and using the right food can help a fussy feeder.


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

I have bred a wide variety of rodents for pets and food... I currently have Steppe Lemmings, Multimammate Mice, Syrian hamsters, gerbils and Zebra mice - although admittedly most of all of these do end up with pet homes.

Things I've bred in the past though, and some points that I've come across - 

Standard mice - breed well in a colony basis, 2 or more females will happily live and breed with one male. Nice big litters, easy to gas with co2, have a nice non-dropping tail for the head trauma method, generally well accepted by snakes. They smell and eat a LOT of food!

Rats - again, good colony breeders, big litters, easy to kill with both my preferred methods (same as for mice). Take up a lot of room and smelly but lots of things will happily eat them. 

Multimammate mice - sometimes colony breed,sometimes won't. Easy to kill, big litters, bitey little buggers though. Not as smelly as normal mice and rats,get bigger than mice and well accepted by my snakes. DESTROY waterbottles!

Gerbils - love them! Have to be gassed as they shed the tails, don't breed too well as a colony, smaller litters and don't breed as fast as the others. Don't smell, but really need to be kept in glass tanks. Wellaccepted by the snakies, get nice and big.

Syrian hamsters - solitary so mating has to be organised by yourself, which often means they'll not breed as often as the others. Nice size, the snakes like them. They don't gas easily and have no tail for swinging, can be tricky but there's a knack to it. Take up alot more space due to being housed alone. Nice big litters, petshops are often happy to buy them so you can use the money for frozen food!

Steppe lemmings - not managed to colony breed them yet, but I'm trying! not smelly, fair sized litters and have babies often, not very big as adults, but grow fast. Well accepted as food, gas easily.

Zebra mice - not got to the breeding bit yet!

Spiny mice - small litters, very hard to kill, the spines make them disagreeable for most snakes.

Harvest mice - easy to breed, hard to kill because they're so cute...

Think that's all I've tried... any questions feel free to ask! I've had a lot more,just never intended as feeders


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

Well thanks for all the info! That really helped ally lol.. I like hamsters so i might get a few and im not planning on breeding very many so i suppose they'll work!


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Keir64 said:


> Well thanks for all the info! That really helped ally lol.. I like hamsters so i might get a few and im not planning on breeding very many so i suppose they'll work!


The biggest problems I found with hamsters as feeders is killing the things. It's very difficult to do it cleanly and quickly, it's taken me longer to be comfortable with those than any other rodent.
Generally I prefer to sell the babies to petshops and use the proceeds for frozen mice - that works perfectly!


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

I was thinking using the CO2 chamber method.. when you get dry ice in an opened bottle, pour water in and make a connecter from the bottle into the chamber.. This should work ok, shouldnt it?


----------



## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Excellent Post Ally.

I can add to that Degus.
need a lot of space and destructfull but larger snakes like them.
They are also good forscenting pinies for nonefeders.
They can be hard to kill.

Pygmy Mice.
Hit and miss breeders, needing a very small amount of space.
Due to size they are excellent for the smaller hatchlings.
Easy to kil by swipe or gas.

I agree the harvest mice are cute as I have a thriving collony on the go.
Not tried these as food yet.

There have been problems of impactation in some snakes fed with hamsters with longer coats, so anyone using them may wish to use the shorter coated breeds.

Stephen


----------



## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

agread with all been said so far.
and definatly hated sorting out the gerbils, apart from the tails shedding they make alot of mess after the dead has been done if you know what i mean.

Thats a good tip on the hamsters and long fur snakebreeder. I have a freezer full of hamsters and one snake is getting most of them so i will keep a extra eye out on her to make sure she goes...

Rabbits are a good food for small and large snakes, i have not had to despatch any though as these are done before i collect them but i belive its quite simple if you dont mind hands on!
( I dont breed them but i heard they breed like rabbits:whistling2

I also have quail in the freezer, great for getting a bowl movement going on snakes, wouldnt want to feed them as a staple. 
There is no reason these cant be bred at home if you have a garden. For smaller snakes breed japanese or chinese quail. (free eggs also)

The ones i listed probably wont be much good for the op but thought i would add them anyway.


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Keir64 said:


> I was thinking using the CO2 chamber method.. when you get dry ice in an opened bottle, pour water in and make a connecter from the bottle into the chamber.. This should work ok, shouldnt it?


Problem is that they're designed to live underground so have a very high tolerance to low oxygen levels. I usually leave animals for at least 1/2 an hour after they appear dead 'just to make sure' but I've had hamsters wake up after a full hour!
I guess you could do that until they're unconcious then do the other method too? I'd worry that they were still a little concious though. I also hate it that it takes them so long to even get knocked out by the gas, it can't be nice for them while they're having difficulty breathing and are concious for so long.
Mice go in literally seconds, hamsters can take up to 5 minutes of struggling before they fall


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Excellent Post Ally.
> 
> I can add to that Degus.
> need a lot of space and destructfull but larger snakes like them.
> ...


Thanks 

I've offered degus to my snakes (never kept or bred them myself though) and found that the boas and tegus would take them, but not much else. Royals really didn't seem fussed, and oddly, the ratsnakes weren't too keen either (shock, horror!)



ladyboid said:


> agread with all been said so far.
> and definatly hated sorting out the gerbils, apart from the tails shedding they make alot of mess after the dead has been done if you know what i mean.
> 
> Thats a good tip on the hamsters and long fur snakebreeder. I have a freezer full of hamsters and one snake is getting most of them so i will keep a extra eye out on her to make sure she goes...
> ...


Agreed, everyone likes rabbits of an appropriate size, the pinkies/fuzzies go down well, but I bet they're very difficult to gas for the same reason an hamsters - I always find the younger rodents take longer to go by gas and almost always use another methin if the eyes aren't yet open.
(I guess underground nests aren't the highest in oxygen, regardless of species).

My biggest problem with killing gerbils is that I think they're wonderful little animals - I'm actually rubbish *sigh*


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

I remember seeing in a thread that pinkies are hard to kill, so freezing at really low temps is meant to make them unconscious fairly quickly then they just die.. or my mum drown my baby gerbils that were accidently born when i was about 5.. 
I'm probably just going to be using pinkies, as any bigger is a little too big for basilisks, so how about a swift bang on the head?


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Keir64 said:


> es, as any bigger is a little too big for basilisks, so how about a swift bang on the head?


Personally this is the only way I kill any pinkies of any species.


----------



## Lizard Loft (Mar 1, 2008)

Keir64 said:


> Aww so its nothing to do with them being unsafe for consumption? just curious because im wanting to have some pinkies available for when im breeding my basilisks so the females can catch up on weight loss but i cant find mice anywhere! Ive tried all the local petshops, pets at home, acorn, everywhere but to no avail! haha.. so is there any nutritional differences?


There is nutrional differences even between a rat and a mouse, there is a thread somewhere on the snake section i think with a link to a table full of nutrional value of a load of animals for snakes and other carnivores, and it also shows mice and chicks are not so different, so the theory chicks are really bad looks to be not a solid one, 

anyway i use normal mice pinkies ofr my baslisks aswell as rat pups or fruit beetle grubs all great for when putting weight on, and all available from a good rep shop : victory:


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks .. i'll go check that out!


----------



## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

What a lovely thread.


----------



## hillzi (Mar 14, 2009)

A swift bang to the head insures total brain destruction, as gassing them you wont know 100% if theyr'e dead or not just in a huge sleep.


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Cranwelli said:


> What a lovely thread.


Yup 

I hope I've helped others a little with my previous experieces, and have appreciated some of my gaps being filled by other keepers. It's an informative thread that deals with issues facing people breeding their own snakefood in an adult way, with honest experiences and so far little fuss from the fluffy-bunny brigade.


----------



## Keir64 (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys!


----------

