# Lobsters vs red runners



## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Lobster roaches or Red runners ? Which roach is more productive ? Answers please from people who are breeding both species !!!


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## Lygo (Oct 2, 2008)

Red runners have the shorter life cycle, around half that of Lobster roaches.


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## lola (Dec 11, 2007)

I keep _dubias_ and red runners and would say the red runners are far more prolific than the dubias - if this helps at all!!! I prefer the dubias though and will concentrate on them, selling on or feeding all my red runners first... dubias are slower and easier for the lizard to catch, more meaty too I believe


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

I keep Blaptica dubia too, I would have thought my user name might have made that obvious ! Yes your right Blaptica often are the better livefood. They are more reliably kept in a feeder dish for example. I use them alot for beardies and my water dragons. 

Lygo thanks... But what if lobsters produce twice any many young ? One difference at least I have noticed between Blaptica and red runners is that adult red runners don't live very long. So again if lobsters lived longer they might be more productive ? Just speculation of course.


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## Lygo (Oct 2, 2008)

Red runners will establish a colony far quicker.

If you start a colony of lobsters and red runners each with a hundred females. Lobsters will be on their second generation of adults in six months, by then the red runners will already be on their third generation.
If we give the lobsters a benefit of 2:1 ratio in offspring, (I think it's closer to 2:3 in reality.)
So 10 nymphs per female with a 50:50 M/F ratio.
After 3 months;

Red runners; 100 original females, produce 1000 nymphs.
100 + 500 ( 1000/2 M/F) = 600 adult females

After six months 600 females produce 6000 nymphs.
original females now dead -100
2nd generation 500 females
3rd generation 3000 females
Total 3400 females.

Lobster roaches after six months, 100 original females, produce 2000 nymphs.
1100 females for second generation.

....and this only if the females produce one clutch, which they don't. 
Red runners also reproduce quicker, they drop one ootheca and start producing the next.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

That makes alot of sense. Its surprizing then that one of the big live food mail order copanies chose Lobsters to sell as feeders ? 

I don't have notes to hand but I thought my red runners take a little longer than 8 weeks, maybe around 10-11 at 28c. Do you keep them warmer ?


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## Lygo (Oct 2, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> That makes alot of sense. Its surprizing then that one of the big live food mail order copanies chose Lobsters to sell as feeders ?
> 
> I don't have notes to hand but I thought my red runners take a little longer than 8 weeks, maybe around 10-11 at 28c. Do you keep them warmer ?


Varying the temp with red runners helps control the colony numbers. If you need to boost the colony, turning the temp up a few degrees will boost reproduction rates.
My hot end is around 32c, and they favour that end.

Lobsters are probably an easier option, and bigger cash return. Easier to count, being bigger. 16 adults for a fiver?, though I doubt they'd give you that many for only a fiver.


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## blatta (May 21, 2008)

The turks seem slightly faster than the lobsters, though at a guess mine seem to have a generation time of about 3-4 months. If anyone has recorded this it could be useful

So many other things to be taken into account though. In terms of just numbers produced per female, and time to grow, crickets far outweigh all of the feeder roaches. Not sure if I'd be so keen to breed those instead though...

Lobster roaches can live well over a year, whereas the blatta usually live for a few months (again, I havent actually recorded this)


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Adult female crickets of the commonly bred livefood species produce 200+
eggs. So if you start with one container full of crickets and breed them you should be able to fill another 200 containers with crickets in one generation right ? If only that were true ! There must be massive mortality even in the cultures of those who produce them professionally. My point is that productivity of feeder insects is rarely as good as you might assume is possible. Could Lobsters be more productive in reality ? I will explain..

My adult Red runners (Blatta lateralis or Shellfordella tartara) seem to live for a short time. This is especially noticable if you keep Blaptica too. 

So if you are right Blatta, then maybe R.R's are the species to keep if you want to get a culture established quickly, buit eventually an established culture of lobsters will be more productive ? While the red runner adults have died at a young age, maybe the lobsters will continue breeding on for longer ? You don't need to grow on so many adults to maturity with lobsters ?

Also when you come to clean them out (with my cultures eventually all that frass can be 10cm or more in the bottom ) I find it difficult to deal with the remaining eggsa the botoom of the cage with RR's. Of course with the lobsters there are no egg cases to worry about.


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