# Ranitomeya fantastica: whats its common name?



## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi everyone, 

Just out of interest whats the common name used for Ranitomeya fantastica? The just seems to be nothing on the old Internet or even in a good old fashioned book :/

Cheers :]


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

There isn't one. Only the more easily obtained darts have common names.


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> There isn't one. Only the more easily obtained darts have common names.


Oh right bloody hell didn't know that! lol cheers! :2thumb: there must be a reason for the lack of a common name though?


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

Both _Jewels of the Rainforest_; _Poison Frogs of the Family Dendrobatidae_ and _The Complete Guide to Scientific & Common Names of Amphibians & Reptiles of the World_ refer to it as the Red-headed Poison Frog.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

Because they are not kept by many keepers and are not easy to get hold of. They dont need a common name. I call them fantastica, because its easier than calling them ranitomeya fantastica 'vederos'


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

pollywog said:


> Both _Jewels of the Rainforest_ and _The Complete Guide to Scientific & Common Names of Amphibians & Reptiles of the World_ refer to it as the Red-headed Poison Frog.


ah awesome thanks Pollywog! :notworthy:
so are they hard to get hold of or just uncommon? cos i found a simular species called Amazonicus Poison Dart Frog


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Because they are not kept by many keepers and are not easy to get hold of. They dont need a common name. I call them fantastica, because its easier than calling them ranitomeya fantastica 'vederos'


oh right well Pollywog says books refer it as having a common name? lol everything needs a common name just to make things easier, you dont hear people saying _"Look at the Equus quagga"._ Thats not a confrontation I just thought that how things went lol :]


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

JR.Exotics said:


> ah awesome thanks Pollywog! :notworthy:
> so are they hard to get hold of or just uncommon? cos i found a simular species called Amazonicus Poison Dart Frog


Ooops I was wrong, most people just use the scientific names though, I hardly ever hear common names for darts.

Tincs are called dyeing frogs, but with 20 plus morphs it doesn't really help!


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

It would actually be much easier if things didn't have common names, it would save a lot of confussion especially when most species have several common names and many common names are shared by numerous species. If you call it by the scientific name everyone knows exactly what you're talking about - actually that's not true either as most of us can't pronounce latin, greek, etc. and these darn taxonomists keep changing things around every few days.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

JR.Exotics said:


> oh right well Pollywog says books refer it as having a common name? lol everything needs a common name just to make things easier, you dont hear people saying _"Look at the Equus quagga"._ Thats not a confrontation I just thought that how things went lol :]


Yeah I have just looked up that common name and it hasn't bought up the type of fantastica I keep but it does appear to bring up some ranitomeya. The kind that i keep however I don't think has a common name. Don't worry I know its not a confrontation:lol2:


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Ooops I was wrong, most people just use the scientific names though, I hardly ever hear common names for darts.
> 
> Tincs are called dyeing frogs, but with 20 plus morphs it doesn't really help!


yeah i like using the latin name too haha i dont know why but i love saying Azureiventris! 
actually you might be able to help with some Tinc morphs im looking for a Surinam and a Critronella (if thats what it is called)


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

JR.Exotics said:


> yeah i like using the latin name too haha i dont know why but i love saying Azureiventris!
> actually you might be able to help with some Tinc morphs im looking for a Surinam and a Critronella (if thats what it is called)


Suriname shouldn't be too hard too find.

Don't talk to me about Citronella :lol2: Twice now someone has beaten me too them! I've been after them for ages!

http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/amphibians.html

There's one here but it would have to be when I'm skint, plus I don't know when another will come up.


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Suriname shouldn't be too hard too find.
> 
> Don't talk to me about Citronella :lol2: Twice now someone has beaten me too them! I've been after them for ages!
> 
> ...



i know the local reptile shop has one but he is a bit old now i was looking more for young ones lol

and ahhh well they have 4 down at the shop but just to expensive! :/


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

:Na_Na_Na_Na: i have tinc suriname if your still looking in a few months i might be lucky enough to have some tads


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

sambridge15 said:


> :Na_Na_Na_Na: i have tinc suriname if your still looking in a few months i might be lucky enough to have some tads


haha damn you! lol  yeah i will be after a one of them mate! nice one haha


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

JR.Exotics said:


> i know the local reptile shop has one but he is a bit old now i was looking more for young ones lol
> 
> and ahhh well they have 4 down at the shop but just to expensive! :/


Which shop?


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Which shop?


Emsworth Aquaria and Reptiles lol they have a Matcheo too for £90


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

emsworth reptils has the best range of stuff iv seen in any shop has some really amazing rare stuff and minimal amounts of bd ,cresties,leos even had a newzeland day gecko last time


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

sambridge15 said:


> emsworth reptils has the best range of stuff iv seen in any shop has some really amazing rare stuff and minimal amounts of bd ,cresties,leos even had a newzeland day gecko last time


yeah they have amazing animals there... yeah the NZ day gecko is still there lol paul told me he upped the price to keep him there! haha they have a trio of Northern Caiman Lizards , Giant Waxy Tree Frogs, Mexican Blue Alligator Lizards and loads! lol used to work there for a little while


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Yeah I have just looked up that common name and it hasn't bought up the type of fantastica I keep but it does appear to bring up some ranitomeya. The kind that i keep however I don't think has a common name. Don't worry I know its not a confrontation:lol2:


hmmmm i dunno then :/ maybe it is one of those things i know some Chinese Species from Yunnan etc still dont have Common names for some reason! :]
and good cos i want no repeats of last time! lmao cos it was just getting stupid


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

JR.Exotics said:


> Emsworth Aquaria and Reptiles lol they have a Matcheo too for £90


wow matechos are nice but still silly money

Pollywogs right about common names we should all use latin, but even after all these years i very rarely do as i cant pronounce half of them :blush:


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

richie.b said:


> wow matechos are nice but still silly money
> 
> Pollywogs right about common names we should all use latin, but even after all these years i very rarely do as i cant pronounce half of them :blush:


yeah i havent seen a matechos cheaper than that :/ i should shop around a bit lol 

haha i love saying latin names but when you tell your mate you have a "Hyloxalus Azureiventris" they tend to take the mick! lol


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## ClareT (Apr 26, 2011)

JR.Exotics said:


> yeah i havent seen a matechos cheaper than that :/ i should shop around a bit lol
> 
> haha i love saying latin names but when you tell your mate you have a "Hyloxalus Azureiventris" they tend to take the mick! lol


Doesn't it take a lot of time to say the name then explain what animal you're referring to? Seems like a waste of effort since most people, even those with animals, use the common name lol


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

ClareT said:


> Doesn't it take a lot of time to say the name then explain what animal you're referring to? Seems like a waste of effort since most people, even those with animals, use the common name lol


Common names vary from place to place and sometimes refer to more than one species. Plus we can sound all smart and sciencey.


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## ClareT (Apr 26, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Common names vary from place to place and sometimes refer to more than one species. Plus we can sound all smart and sciencey.


Smart and sciencey to an extent  The few people I know who do it sound very elitist. If you and the person you're talking to genuinely know the names (I.e don't have to keep googling it!) then it sounds smart and sciencey, otherwise it's a bit show offy  no offense!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

pollywog said:


> It would actually be much easier if things didn't have common names, it would save a lot of confussion *especially when most species have several common names and many common names are shared by numerous species.* If you call it by the scientific name everyone knows exactly what you're talking about - actually that's not true either as most of us can't pronounce latin, greek, etc. and these darn taxonomists keep changing things around every few days.


True enough- look how many names there are for 'golden treefrogs' or 'dumpy frogs'. Morgan's point is valid though- commonly sold frogs tend to have widely-accepted names in the trade, however inaccurate.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

ClareT said:


> Smart and sciencey to an extent  The few people I know who do it sound very elitist. If you and the person you're talking to genuinely know the names (I.e don't have to keep googling it!) then it sounds smart and sciencey, otherwise it's a bit show offy  no offense!


 Latin names are very useful if you are communicating with foreigners,everyone knows what you mean.Common names can vary in different languages,so the Latin names are very useful.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Green tree frog = Litoria Caularea, Hyla Arborea, Hyla Cinerea, Hyla Japonica.

Red Eye Tree Frog = Litoria Chloris, Agalychnis Callidryas


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

ClareT said:


> Doesn't it take a lot of time to say the name then explain what animal you're referring to? Seems like a waste of effort since most people, even those with animals, use the common name lol


well i do end up explaining what it is and saying the common name and in the end they just say "Why didnt you just say Sky-blue Poison Dart Frog?" and i do agree as much as i use the Latin Name on here and to people that KNOW about animals, i never use it when i do a talk to students because they just end up feeling a bit thick :/ lol so my view on it is use both haha
But when researching animals on the web or in books its always better to use Latin cos you then get the exact species your looking for, so either way using both has its advantages!


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## ClareT (Apr 26, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Green tree frog = Litoria Caularea, Hyla Arborea, Hyla Cinerea, Hyla Japonica.
> 
> Red Eye Tree Frog = Litoria Chloris, Agalychnis Callidryas


Very impressive, mr smart and sciency


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## ClareT (Apr 26, 2011)

JR.Exotics said:


> well i do end up explaining what it is and saying the common name and in the end they just say "Why didnt you just say Sky-blue Poison Dart Frog?" and i do agree as much as i use the Latin Name on here and to people that KNOW about animals, i never use it when i do a talk to students because they just end up feeling a bit thick :/ lol so my view on it is use both haha
> But when researching animals on the web or in books its always better to use Latin cos you then get the exact species your looking for, so either way using both has its advantages!


No doubt you had to google a lot till you remembered then


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Rantinomeya fantastica's common name is the "_orange coral-patterned marine angle fish-coloured dart frog_' !!!

Fact....because that is the name that I just gave it.

It may also be called a 'common frog' by some people. 
(but to me the common frog is our native frog in Ireland....not a frog that might be common to a community in the americas).

And if that sounds all daft, then that is problem of common names.
But often we even get makey-uppy trade names thrown into the pot (see that so often in the fish trade).

Greek and latinised english names are generally easier to pronounce than many common names IMO.

As for elitism..... Common names are really the elitist way of talking because the common name is not universally transparent: it is a name used by a limited group of people in the world (eg different countries have different common names for things), or the common name may only be known to those 'in the know' (eg the pet trade).

Anyway, if scientists are talking about an animal that has a well used common name (eg dog or mouse) then they will rarely use the scientific name in everyday talk.

ian


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Here's a few 'common' names for a well known PDF....
(I have not the faintest idea how to pronounce the german or spanish name)

English - Blue Poison Frog 
French - Dendrobate bleu 
German - Blauer Baumsteiger 
Spanish - Rana flecha azul 
Local name - Okopipi


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

igmillichip said:


> Here's a few 'common' names for a well known PDF....
> (I have not the faintest idea how to pronounce the german or spanish name)
> 
> English - Blue Poison Frog
> ...


They all mean the same thing lol they arent different common names your just looking at the pronunciation of Blue Poison Dart Frog in a different language lol :whistling2:

People are saying animals have several common names, for example:
Anderson’s Crocodile Newt is also called, Ryukyu spiny newt and Anderson’s newt.


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

ClareT said:


> No doubt you had to google a lot till you remembered then


haha yes..... yes a hell of a lot! i still cant remember some but most Dart Frogs i know, well not all of them cos there is too many! lol


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

JR.Exotics said:


> They all mean the same thing lol they arent different common names your just looking at the pronunciation of Blue Poison Dart Frog in a different language lol :whistling2:
> 
> People are saying animals have several common names, for example:
> Anderson’s Crocodile Newt is also called, Ryukyu spiny newt and Anderson’s newt.



Thats what hes saying its the common name for azureus in different countries

Like i said if im speaking to people over here i just use common names like fant or azzie but if im ordering frogs its always the latin name


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

richie.b said:


> Thats what hes saying its the common name for azureus in different countries
> 
> Like i said if im speaking to people over here i just use common names like fant or azzie but if im ordering frogs its always the latin name



oh i seee! lol i thought the translation was just the same back to english though :/ i completely understand now so really common names are a total pain in ones rear end! lol


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

JR.Exotics said:


> oh i seee! lol i thought the translation was just the same back to english though :/ i completely understand now so really common names are a total pain in ones rear end! lol


yer theyre but so much easier when talking normally to people in my opinion, and to be honest most of the people i talk to in this country use common names even shortened like i said earlier. But when you go abroad totally different again :bash:


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## JR.Exotics (Mar 24, 2011)

richie.b said:


> yer theyre but so much easier when talking normally to people in my opinion, and to be honest most of the people i talk to in this country use common names even shortened like i said earlier. But when you go abroad totally different again :bash:


hmmmm blooming heck thats probably why the german guy didnt understand me when i said "How much for the Sky-blue poison dart frog?" lol


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

The azureus was a straightforward example of a language problem of common names, but with some animals the local vernacular is even more diverse (ie there is not a straighforward translation difference).

The french - _Dendrobate bleu_ for D.tinc.azureus would not translate as 'blue dart frog' but as '_Blue one who walks amongst the trees_' (or similar).

But as with the azureus, when we look at the local name for it, it is not a simple translation of the english name.

With species that tend to be familiar to people in a country, the more we would tend to find a species does not have a simple language translation common name (as opposed to the european differences with D.t.azureus).

On the scientific name......yes it is a pain when a taxonomist decides to rename a species. And often not every other taxonomist fully accepts the new name. 
BUT, the scientific name should rightly be followed by the name of the original author and the year of original description. 

That will help (and I say 'help') make tracing the connection of scientific names easier. You don't have that facility with common names...
....if I were a trader, I could put any common name I wanted on the shipment and there would be no peer pressure to make me change that name.
I couldn't do that with a scientific name (even though some scientific names in some exotics are actually just made-up trade names).

ian


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

richie.b said:


> Thats what hes saying its the common name for azureus in different countries
> 
> Like i said if im speaking to people over here i just use common names like fant or azzie but if im ordering frogs its always the latin name


 Thats not a common name Rich but its the best way for us that can't see the long multisylable latins,abbreviate them,best of both worlds short enough to say,but because its derived from latin azzie works all over,and i don't have to figure out how many E's there are either:2thumb: is the above only used in the dart world though?...azzie...mystie...fants...tincs...HMMMM auratus:lol2:
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Thats not a common name Rich but its the best way for us that can't see the long multisylable latins,abbreviate them,best of both worlds short enough to say,but because its derived from latin azzie works all over,and i don't have to figure out how many E's there are either:2thumb: is the above only used in the dart world though?...azzie...mystie...fants...tincs...HMMMM auratus:lol2:
> Stu


As Igmilliechip was saying (and no, he isn't paying me royalties!) the habit seems to have developed from fish-keeping, where 'nicknames' have become common currency. As several people have also said, the Latin name identifies the actual species- to an extent, the changes in taxonomy don't really matter, since even if the species or genus name has since changed, it is still clear which species is actually meant.


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