# Leo eye traits???



## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

I have two leos now showing eclipse eye traits.

However the male is a wild leo over 10 years old and the female is at least eight and only managed 3 egss last year. One of the geckos was nearly all black when hatched with solid black eyes. The other i have just noticed has now got 50% eyes.

I have heard of false eclipse but not sure what that is. I have a female from the same pair that is 3 years old i thought i could put the male with her and see what happens.

If its not eclipse could it still be genetic???

Anyone else seen these black eyes but not from eclipse or mack snow?

Phil


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

The only thing really to do is test breed.
From what i can see from the pictures both have what would be classed as snake eyes or partial eclipse (whether it be genetic or random/false). However the one where the nose is visible, the leo does not express a white washed nose, which is usually an indicator of the eclipse gene.
Im not sure when false eclipse started cropping up (i think it was around when the blizzard was first produced), but with it not being genetic i suppose it can crop up at any time.
As you say it is usually associated with Mack Snow's and Blizzards.
You say one hatched almost solid black, this to me would say SS which express a "genetic" solid eye that is directly associated with the SS gene (ie cannot be produced without being homozygous mack snow). However neither gecko looks snow.

I think more pictures of the hatchlings are needed to get a better idea.

If you want to prove it either way first breed to eclipse. If no eclipses are produced you can rule out the genetic eclipse.
Next step breed to anything that is 100% not het for any eye trait, and then second gen try to reproduce this eye trait.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thankyou for reply

This is one of the leos when it hatched, but it turned yellow after a couple of months













These are the parents pictures


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Well it seems last year a few odd balls like this popped out randomly.
I've just done a quick search for one....
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/319901-update-odd-hatchling-prawn.html
Obviously this is albino but the patterning is almost identical, and these "oddballs" all seem to have very dark or eclipse eyes.

Gazz is the member to speak to on here regarding these odd ones, he seems to know a lot about these odd ones and calicos, which are what they are being linked to : victory:


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

WOW that hatcling looks identical but albino.

Thanx for your help, i guess breeding is the only way to find out what he is.

Phil


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i had two last year too.
dark like yours,


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> i had two last year too.
> dark like yours,
> 
> image


What were the parents of yours?
Im surprised with the number that have been popping up people haven't been trying harder to figure these out.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

The black faded quickly and the yellow started aroung the egde and worked its way to the middle as the black broke up


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mine were a normal female with a mack snow male,
both from different people, so unlikely to be related.

we did ask the breeder of the mack snow male about the black babies, but he got very secretive and made a quick exit!


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

Did yours have eclipse eyes???

Phil


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mine now has multiple stripes, heres an old pic must get a better one


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

The leo with normal pattern but with iris black i'd class as Tinted eye-(False eclipse eye). 
Tinted eye seems to be a random eye trait with no genetic valu, Just gives your leo that little exsta jazz.










The odd looking baby below you have, I call them Oddballs, Use to think they was just link to calico, But i've seen to many out side of Calico breedings.
Now i beleave they are the body equivalent of Tinted eye. A random trait with no genetic valu, Just gives you a sweet looking leo.

*Oddball traits.*
First a strong black tone when born, 
Soon developes into dorsal stripping that continue into the tail, 
A colorless head but is spotted when mature, 
Eyes express iris black out. 









Let us know how it matures: victory:.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

This is how he looks now

The black hatchling, the first eye pic with near all black eyes and this pic are all the same gecko


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Phil75 said:


> This is how he looks now
> 
> The black hatchling, the first eye pic with near all black eyes and this pic are all the same gecko
> 
> ...


Sweet that's a Oddball: victory:. Are you planning on breeding ?. IMO i don't think you'll get any more on a predictable genetic leval, 
But it would be really good to be proved wrong. I think oddball is something that pops up time to time.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

I thought it was an oddball and still do. 

But it was only today when i noticed that his twin has one 50% eclipse eye. He wasnt hatched all black but kind of a zig zag patern.

This got me thinking if two eggs together have something simular its worth looking into.

I will breed him this year with an older gecko from the same parents and see what comes up???

Thanx for your help

Phil


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Phil75 said:


> He wasnt hatched all black but kind of a zig zag patern.


When possible, Love to see a picture: victory:.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Phil75 said:


> I thought it was an oddball and still do.
> 
> But it was only today when i noticed that his twin has one 50% eclipse eye. He wasnt hatched all black but kind of a zig zag patern.
> 
> ...


Give my suggestions above a go if you have nothing else planned.
No need to really test to an eclipse either now more is known about it.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

Cant find a pic of the zigzag patern but im sure i have one some were.

The stipes were diagonal accross the body rather than straight, it looked really odd on the tail.

Will look for pics another day

Phil


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I have said it before and I will say it again, I think this could well be a new morph!! Would be fab to test breed and find out.


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## Lozza.Bella (Apr 24, 2010)

Phil75 said:


> This is how he looks now
> 
> The black hatchling, the first eye pic with near all black eyes and this pic are all the same gecko
> 
> ...


That is a beautiful leo..... keep us posted on your findings and lots of pics! 
Gorgeous vibrant colours on him!


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

I will be breeding this unusal gecko and will keep everyone interested posted on eggs and hatchlings. Should anything turn up this year i would need help to further test next year. Anyone willing to help please keep in touch as i can only breed so many myself.

Phil


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## tonydavo (Mar 10, 2008)

I had this little girl hatch last year,










dad was a supersnow and mum a tremper snow (im told)

this is her now,










not the best eye shot but you can see it,










Tony


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

tonydavo said:


> I had this little girl hatch last year,
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Tinted eye snow patternless SPLIT Super snow/HET Talbino.

Tinted eye is fairly common in snow type leo's.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanx for the pic. _I think gaz is right yours must be part of the mack snow gene. Dony know where my oddballs from but hop to find out he is mating away like crazy tonight._

_Phil_


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

*Updated photos of oddball leo*

Here is an updated photo of one the leos that hatched along side the all black oddball leo.

This one was not all black but unusual diamond zig zag saddles instead of staight stripes and one snake eye and one normal eye.

I hope he keeps the diamond pattern as he gets older.


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