# Possible Dart Frog Enclosure



## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi, 
My work place has been given a 7'lx2'hx2'w glass fish tank. I would love to create a huge planted dart frog viv in there but am unsure how suitable it would be. Is it high enough? I'd be scared of having it drilled for ventilation incase it breaks so will top ventilation be sufficient? Any thoughts or ideas will be much appreciated.
thanks


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Lol- all the dart people are probably at Frog Day today! Talk to Wolfenrook and Soundstounite- they both really know their stuff.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Lol- all the dart people are probably at Frog Day today! Talk to Wolfenrook and Soundstounite- they both really know their stuff.


Cheers Ron, I'll get in touch with them after the weekend.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Lol- all the dart people are probably at Frog Day today! Talk to Wolfenrook and Soundstounite- they both really know their stuff.


Yeah thanks MATE.

It would be awesome for a huge dart tank with a few modifications. Drilling would make things a hundred times easier to get rid of excess water, otherwise you'll be siphoning it out manually, which can be done it's just very annoying. If you can get a drainage hole in there try and do so.

You'll need to cover most of the top to keep humidity in and some fans spaced periodically along the top will help circulate the air. You don't have to have vents anywhere else really.

I'm currently building a 4.5 x 2 x 2 so pics and a guide should be up soon...ish.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Oh, and it might be worth chatting to Morgan Freeman. He knows a few things...:whistling2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Oh, and it might be worth chatting to Morgan Freeman. He knows a few things...:whistling2:


 Ahh guys this properly cracked me up last night when i found it which was too late to write any thing,oh Evie Morgan has been helping me since i started chucking Q's at this lot,and has kept darts longer,i'm just a bit more prone to addiction than him,i'll deal with the practical stuff,how to make things tis what i do,the others will pull up details for ya,we have a thread on here called Da dartroom which will show you sommit about what we do.
I read correctly 7 foot x2footx2foot?me being me i would drill the base and put in some drainage,can't be doing with working hard when there is an easier soln,but if it breaks then i can fix it ,which is not an option for everyone. I would love to work on something like this...of this size,but i wouldn't relish the top opening ,much preferring front access,better for me ,better for frogs.
To make a background for this i'd personally couple polystyrene sheets as a base,and use a variety of methods outside the viv,read that thread mate and how to build a dart viv up top for other alternative methods.
Have you any idea of a species you want to keep?
i'll stop there and let you answer
regards
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> Ahh guys this properly cracked me up last night when i found it which was too late to write any thing,oh Evie Morgan has been helping me since i started chucking Q's at this lot,and has kept darts longer,i'm just a bit more prone to addiction than him,i'll deal with the practical stuff,how to make things tis what i do,the others will pull up details for ya,we have a thread on here called Da dartroom which will show you sommit about what we do.
> I read correctly 7 foot x2footx2foot?me being me i would drill the base and put in some drainage,can't be doing with working hard when there is an easier soln,but if it breaks then i can fix it ,which is not an option for everyone. I would love to work on something like this...of this size,but i wouldn't relish the top opening ,much preferring front access,better for me ,better for frogs.
> To make a background for this i'd personally couple polystyrene sheets as a base,and use a variety of methods outside the viv,read that thread mate and how to build a dart viv up top for other alternative methods.
> Have you any idea of a species you want to keep?
> ...


Hi thanks for answering - I think an easier species - dendrobates azureus are looking good at the moment. I was looking at the mayan themed viv in the habitat section and was inspired. I've done a few fake rock backgrounds but never a live habitat. I also have a couple of threads with tutorials for dart frog vivs in my favourites. As much as these tutorials are useful, there is always another question and since you seem to have volunteered...... well sorry in advance for the constant barrage of questions


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Hi thanks for answering - I think an easier species - dendrobates azureus are looking good at the moment. I was looking at the mayan themed viv in the habitat section and was inspired. I've done a few fake rock backgrounds but never a live habitat. I also have a couple of threads with tutorials for dart frog vivs in my favourites. As much as these tutorials are useful, there is always another question and since you seem to have volunteered...... well sorry in advance for the constant barrage of questions


 Evie,you might just encounter problems with tinctorius,the females can be very aggressive towards each other,this is real tricky as a viv of this size opens different doors but,although it can surely be done keeping groups of tincs together,one would defintiely need a fall back just in case the lasses decided to become hell bent on oppressing each other.
Better recomendations would be leucamedas,trivittata,galactonus,mysteriosus and auratus spring to mind in the larger dart frogs. Due to the rapidity of growth robustness and personal experiance i might chuck auratus at you,as my preference, that said they can be prone to being shy.
I think that this might be your first concrete descision,decide which frogs you are going to build this tank for,and then try as best one can to fullfil their needs. i omitted azureus are classified as tinctorius
regards
stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> Evie,you might just encounter problems with tinctorius,the females can be very aggressive towards each other,this is real tricky as a viv of this size opens different doors but,although it can surely be done keeping groups of tincs together,one would defintiely need a fall back just in case the lasses decided to become hell bent on oppressing each other.
> Better recomendations would be leucamedas,trivittata,galactonus,mysteriosus and auratus spring to mind in the larger dart frogs. Due to the rapidity of growth robustness and personal experiance i might chuck auratus at you,as my preference, that said they can be prone to being shy.
> I think that this might be your first concrete descision,decide which frogs you are going to build this tank for,and then try as best one can to fullfil their needs. i omitted azureus are classified as tinctorius
> regards
> stu


To be honest it doesn't matter if they are shy - it is as much about the creation of a living habitat as anything - the whole project is such an amazing prospect. Just reading through some of the threads has opened my eyes - I have to be honest and say that I thought dart frogs were kind of all the same but I'm realising how dumb that is. It's like thinking that all fish are the same. I need to take several steps back and take a good look at what I want to do if it's going to be done right (and it is).


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

With a tank this size if youre thinking of azureus you will proberbly get away with a couple of females but then you will also have to be prepared to split them if they do start fighting, if you do want tincs you could always split the tank in 2 with a piece of glass down the middle giving you 2 good size vivs for 2 different types of tincs or if you wanted to keep it as 1 viv then i would go for group frogs like leucomelas, auratus, galactonotus, tricolor, trivittatus, vittatus or even a nice group of terribilis

Richie


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> To be honest it doesn't matter if they are shy - it is as much about the creation of a living habitat as anything - the whole project is such an amazing prospect. Just reading through some of the threads has opened my eyes - I have to be honest and say that I thought dart frogs were kind of all the same but I'm realising how dumb that is. It's like thinking that all fish are the same. I need to take several steps back and take a good look at what I want to do if it's going to be done right (and it is).


 what maybe sets them apart Evie is some of the parental care,its astounding,might be worth doing some reading about oophaga although not really beginners frogs the way they rear their kids will be of huge interest to you and your students, in other genera most male darts carry their tadpoles about to deposition sites (small bodies of water) as the eggs are laid on land,mind bogglingly fascinating the lives of darts
regards
Stu
Ps might also be worth loking into the culture of dwarf white woodlics and springtails,sooner rather than later especially the wood lice as they can be slow to get going and these are integral to your inviv ecosystem.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well we finally got a sort of start with the build. We have about 15 students so we figured that we should have more than one projects on the go!
We have picked up an exo terra (think its a 60cm wide) so that we can have a quarantine viv and also it will be done a bit quicker so if we spot any suitable frogs as we go, we can house them till the big viv is done. Along side of that we have drained a 6ft fish tank that was in our main reception area and we are doing a bearded dragon enclosure using the same style rock work so that they have a theme running through but display the contrasting environments. And just so they don't get bored, we are doing a rodent tanks too haha.

So yesterday we shifted the tanks (almost had a nervous breakdown) to our work area on a fork lift truck - my god it was scary and our health and safety executive strolled past just as we'd finished :whistling2:. 
Went through a power point and showed the students exactly what the plan was and explained that we were all learning together and they were as responsible for research as we are. Our plant department has given us loads of mature plants (bromeliads, a huge begonia and some air plants). Just hoping we don't kill them off :gasp:

So the big frog viv has already got 2 one inch holes drilled in the bottom about a quarter of the way in, one at each end which we should be able to connect to an external filter with some clever pipe fitting. 
I want to put a false bottom in but I'm not sure if I should use the whole of the bottom of the viv, or use just a part of it by taking off the horizontal supports which go across the top of the tank (and make access a right pain in the arse). If I use those supports I can silicone them in the bottom to make a pool covering about half of the base area - but not sure if this will cause problems with weight distribution. I reckon it will be about 70 litres of water in the bottom.

Next week we will get the tanks thoroughly cleaned and make a start on the rock work for the dragon viv and get the false bottom started on the frog viv.

Any advice on how best to proceed will be welcome. I've read lots of threads on here about flase bottom vivs but each one comes with its own unique set of problems doesn't it.


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

Make sure you post pictures as you progress. Sorry Im new here so cant help you.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The false bottom design I use now doesn't come with any problems at all. lol It's fool proof:-

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/8603109-post7.html

I would still use some raised drain sets under it though, and hook any external filter/sump up to this, with your return via a simple water fall. Keep any exposed water areas down to a small size, with plenty of things like wood etc that frogs can climb out with. I would suggest having your water fall either going directly into a water area, or use a netting type material rather than weed fabric under it, as weed fabric waterlogs if you run water onto it.

My most recent false bottomed viv I used polyester netting for the entire false bottom, with no water area/pond, and put slate chips over the part where the water ran, it's working a treat:-

VivariumWaterfall.AVI - YouTube

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> The false bottom design I use now doesn't come with any problems at all. lol It's fool proof:-
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/8603109-post7.html
> 
> ...


Cheers Ade, that's helpful - I like the way you have done the false bottom so it doesn't cover the whole viv. I will post pics as it develops - could be a brilliant tutorial in how not to do it haha


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well we are underway with this build. The whole gang are buzzing off this job so it's massively rewarding from every conceivable angle! 
This is a scary bit - posting pics and being told I've got it wrong :gasp:










This is the tank with the false bottom in place. We put 2 aquarium heaters underneath with the leads sticking out in the corners. We have created little trap doors in the middle egg crate so that we can access the heaters in case of failure. The weed membrane is intact and we would have to cut it to access the trap door if access is ever needed.

The egg crate is supported on short lengths of plastic tubes used to support sapling trees. We have cut a corner out at the back to allow the water outlet tube for the external filter.









The inlet pipe from the external filter will be used to create a waterfall which will feed into the green patch (above) made out of an old fish net so that the water will drain away properly. 

This is the old stand being sanded down for re-varnishing 'cos it's minging









And we got started on the background. Poly bricks which have been stuck in place with aquarium silicone.









The conter brick is the college logo so will impress the bosses :whistling2:
We also used an old exo-terra background to make some of the background.









And there is the little exo-terra quarantine/isolation viv but I will have to wait until next week to post pics of that.

We had a chat with the deputy curator of herpetology at the Manchester Museum of Natural History this week, and we are going over there tomorrow for a sneaky behind the scenes tour - can't wait.

Any comments or criticisms appreciated but be aware if it's bad news and we've cocked it up you will ruin my weekend.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Looking good, but one question you may not like much. If a heater fails how do you plan to get at it to replace it?

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> Looking good, but one question you may not like much. If a heater fails how do you plan to get at it to replace it?
> 
> Ade


Well that was a major concern but that's why we are putting 2 heaters in and we have put two trap doors in the egg crate, so worst case scenario we will only have to dig out a small area of the enclosureand cut the weed membrane to get at it. Do you think it will work - very scary this false bottom malarky!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks fine from where I'm sitting!

Bit gutted someone's made a bigger one than me


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Looks fine from where I'm sitting!
> 
> Bit gutted someone's made a bigger one than me


Don't be gutted - it's not made yet! Lots of time for foobars :gasp:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Evie said:


> Well that was a major concern but that's why we are putting 2 heaters in and we have put two trap doors in the egg crate, so worst case scenario we will only have to dig out a small area of the enclosureand cut the weed membrane to get at it. Do you think it will work - very scary this false bottom malarky!


That's fine. Just thought I would ask now rather than once you had the substrate in. :lol2:

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> That's fine. Just thought I would ask now rather than once you had the substrate in. :lol2:
> 
> Ade


Oh hell yes - much better to mention it now than later - cheers. I will be updating each week as the job progresses.


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Evie said:


> Oh hell yes - much better to mention it now than later - cheers. I will be updating each week as the job progresses.


Hi Evie, will be following your build with much interest. Just curious why you went with the external filter and heaters in the tank instead of a sump?

Chris


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> Hi Evie, will be following your build with much interest. Just curious why you went with the external filter and heaters in the tank instead of a sump?
> 
> Chris


Hi Chris, using the external filter simply because we have one of those, but don't have a submersible pump spare.... at least I don't think we have.... 
I know would be much easier to use a sump system though


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Nae arguing with that logic 

Any thoughts on the condensation issue?

Chris


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> Nae arguing with that logic
> 
> Any thoughts on the condensation issue?
> 
> Chris


Lots of thoughts but no real conclusion - think we're going to suck it and see - if condensation is an issue, we will investigate possible solutions. This thread is definitely going to be worth following if only for comedy value when it all goes hilariously wrong - but nobody panic - it won't have any frogs in until it's exactly right!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Lots of thoughts but no real conclusion - think we're going to suck it and see - if condensation is an issue, we will investigate possible solutions. This thread is definitely going to be worth following if only for comedy value when it all goes hilariously wrong - but nobody panic - it won't have any frogs in until it's exactly right!


Not in the slightest,panicing only humans will be harmed in this experiment,its college,and students are expendable:gasp:,will definitely be following for the comedy value, murph:2thumb: hell and 'cause i know is going to be a good ride plus a great gaff for some well cared for frogs,can't really ask for more
best
Stu


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Regarding condensation. A really SIMPLE method that will reduce it quite a bit, mist less. Since I followed Richie B's advice for my conversion and started misting ONCE every 3 days, I don't have nearly as much condensation. Humidity is still more than high enough though, as aquariums hold humidity for far longer than vivariums do. The bonus with this is your broms don't rot off. lol

I got around it by simply attaching a ball valve to the misting line to my conversion, which I just turn on for a morning misting every 3rd day. I also turned off the waterfall though, as this was making things too wet as well.

A more complex solution is to use pc fans, which also helps with air circulation within the vivarium.

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> Regarding condensation. A really SIMPLE method that will reduce it quite a bit, mist less. Since I followed Richie B's advice for my conversion and started misting ONCE every 3 days, I don't have nearly as much condensation. Humidity is still more than high enough though, as aquariums hold humidity for far longer than vivariums do. The bonus with this is your broms don't rot off. lol
> 
> *I got around it by simply attaching a ball valve to the misting line to my conversion,* which I just turn on for a morning misting every 3rd day. I also turned off the waterfall though, as this was making things too wet as well.
> 
> ...


See Ade you were doing ok until you lapsed into man-speak there - it translates to blah blah blah blah in my head when you do that. 

Seriously though the false bottom isnt deep enough to take a ball valve thing.

I have asked the IT department about pc fans in a frog tank and they looked at me as though I was some kind of nutter - and generally speaking I'm not...... although there was the incident with the home made magnetic paint............
If anyone has anykind of diagram or link to anywhere there is guidance on pc fans in tanks?


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> Not in the slightest,panicing only humans will be harmed in this experiment,*its college,and students are expendable*:gasp:,will definitely be following for the comedy value, murph:2thumb: hell and 'cause i know is going to be a good ride plus a great gaff for some well cared for frogs,can't really ask for more
> best
> Stu


Love this post Stu - I'm almost tempted to add that quote to my sig.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

lol Sorry Evie. The ball valve thing is ONLY if you are using a misting system. It's just like a tap that fits into the hosing leading to your misting nozzles, allowing you to basically isolate the viv from the rest of your system. Doesn't even go inside the viv, heck mine isn't even in the same room (my pum and reservoir are in a different room, with a hole through a wall which I fed the misting hose through).

Your IT department would give you odd looks. It's a bit of a DIY thing, where hobbyist use them for a purpose they were never intended for. I have never felt comfortable with it though, as PC fans are NOT designed for use in humid conditions. Plenty of folks doing it though, and as they are only 12 volt it's fairly safe. Ant (d3tailer) I know uses PC fans in his tanks, possibly a few others.

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> lol Sorry Evie. The ball valve thing is ONLY if you are using a misting system. It's just like a tap that fits into the hosing leading to your misting nozzles, allowing you to basically isolate the viv from the rest of your system. Doesn't even go inside the viv, heck mine isn't even in the same room (my pum and reservoir are in a different room, with a hole through a wall which I fed the misting hose through).
> 
> Your IT department would give you odd looks. It's a bit of a DIY thing, where hobbyist use them for a purpose they were never intended for. I have never felt comfortable with it though, as PC fans are NOT designed for use in humid conditions. Plenty of folks doing it though, and as they are only 12 volt it's fairly safe. Ant (d3tailer) I know uses PC fans in his tanks, possibly a few others.
> 
> Ade


Thanks for clarifying that for me - I think this would be a good area for them to investigate for themselves - I know it's a cop out but I reckon there will be one or two of them that will be able to figure it out better than me. DIY isn't really a strong point with me (although the fence I build this morning kept most of the chickens in before it fell over) :blush:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

My DIY abilities are only of any worth where things that can give me dangerous electric shocks are concerned, the rest is for my wife. lol

Seriously, one of my daughters tried to electrocute me last night when I was replacing their light fitting, she decided to turn the bathroom light on, huge flash and tingling feeling in my hand, fun times.  That'll teach me not to turn the fuse off first. 

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Love this post Stu - I'm almost tempted to add that quote to my sig.


I'm a bad person,but genuinely i couldn't help myself,i did try,......honest:whistling2: Mate did you go manc this weekend?
Stu


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Evie said:


> Thanks for clarifying that for me - I think this would be a good area for them to investigate for themselves - I know it's a cop out but I reckon there will be one or two of them that will be able to figure it out better than me. DIY isn't really a strong point with me (although the fence I build this morning kept most of the chickens in before it fell over) :blush:


Could you get them to translate this, DIY: Air Circulation , from American retail speak to good old British B and Q?   I'm sure it would be both good for them and of help to the local community, however small or slightly far away that community of one might be of course.. :whistling2: 

Chris


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> Could you get them to translate this, DIY: Air Circulation , from American retail speak to good old British B and Q?   I'm sure it would be both good for them and of help to the local community, however small or slightly far away that community of one might be of course.. :whistling2:
> 
> Chris


Cheers Chris - I have saved that link for when I am feeling like another challenge.
All I am seeing with this project at the moment is problems that I can only guess at how to solve. Visually it's all looking reasonably good but I have a sealing problem thats making my headache! :bash:
Is ordinary clear water seal stuff from DIY stores no good to use or do I have to use epoxy resin to seal the grout and expanding foam?

I have black fingers 'cos I poked them into expanding foam today. I built another fence yesterday to keep some naughty chickens in - this fence was also a failure and was dismantled and re-built by someone more competent than me at fence building :blush:

I've had no time to update this thread but I will post some pictures in a bit when I've got a glass of wine in my hands and a smile on my face!!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Cheers Chris - I have saved that link for when I am feeling like another challenge.
> All I am seeing with this project at the moment is problems that I can only guess at how to solve. Visually it's all looking reasonably good but I have a sealing problem thats making my headache! :bash:
> Is ordinary clear water seal stuff from DIY stores no good to use or do I have to use epoxy resin to seal the grout and expanding foam?
> 
> ...


hey mate,i have black finger's cos i poked them in expanding foam had me in stiches ,brilliant.:no1:
I can't tell you about clear seal or grout,i use rockoflex and epoxy resin,many use black silicone
If your naughty chucks are Fayoumi i'd declare they don't need a fence,but then i know them and they are hard as nails,i'd go furthur but i'll end up using bad words:lol2:,anyway i hope it works out,
best
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> hey mate,i have black finger's cos i poked them in expanding foam had me in stiches ,brilliant.:no1:
> I can't tell you about clear seal or grout,i use rockoflex and epoxy resin,many use black silicone
> If your naughty chucks are Fayoumi i'd declare they don't need a fence,but then i know them and they are hard as nails,i'd go furthur but i'll end up using bad words:lol2:,anyway i hope it works out,
> best
> Stu


The chucks are little pekin bantams who like the big.... cockerels! They have a lovely little frizzle bantam boy to flirt with but no, they want to go play with the cochin cockerel!! Silly girls - he's injuring them with his spurs. Anyhow it's about fixed now so they can just stay put :lol2:

With the epoxy resin - well it just seems so expensive and I'm being a tightwad and seeing sealing products waaay cheaper. We've painted the rockwork with acrylic paint and I want to seal it with something durable and safe. Will be trimming the foam and using aquarium silicone to stick eco earth onto the 'motar' (expanding foam).









Whatever we use, I'm flapping about the bottom bit here. the water will sit under this weed membrane but I can't get under the expanding foam bit at the base to seal between it and the water derrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

And just for you Stu - here's the pokey fingers..shortly after giving a stern warning to the students NOT to get it on their hands :lol2:


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Evie said:


> Cheers Chris - I have saved that link for when I am feeling like another challenge.
> All I am seeing with this project at the moment is problems that I can only guess at how to solve. Visually it's all looking reasonably good but I have a sealing problem thats making my headache! :bash:
> Is ordinary clear water seal stuff from DIY stores no good to use or do I have to use epoxy resin to seal the grout and expanding foam?
> 
> ...


Slacker!  

By "clear water seal" do you mean silicone sealant? If so then must use aquarium safe stuff, as most of the household sealants contain mould inhibitors. I've never seen safe sealant in B & Q etc, but any decent Aquarium shop should stock it. 

Afraid my viv decorating experience consists of exactly 3/4 of a viv, done with the Gorilla Glue/ Eco-earth method so maybe not the best person to help you :lol2: but on the other hand.. :devil: , have you considered chicken fat as a sealant?

Chris


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> Slacker!
> 
> By "clear water seal" do you mean silicone sealant? If so then must use aquarium safe stuff, as most of the household sealants contain mould inhibitors. I've never seen safe sealant in B & Q etc, but any decent Aquarium shop should stock it.
> 
> ...


*Chris man you're a genius!!!!:lol2:*
The sealant is to paint over the background - poly, grout & expanding foam.


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

Evie said:


> *Chris man you're a genius!!!!:lol2:*
> The sealant is to paint over the background - poly, grout & expanding foam.



why would you paint a background with silicone?


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

fardilis said:


> why would you paint a background with silicone?


Might be a good way of concealing evidence from do-gooder's that don't approve of taxpayers money being used on Voodoo religous studies practicals.

BTW Evie, I like your cover story about the black fingers  Brilliant :2thumb:

Chris


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Eve, have a look on eBay for H5 Marine silicone, it's aquarium safe and comes in great big tubes for a much lower price. Oh and yes, you can seel a background with silicone. Folks who use foam often cover it in sillcone, usually though they then put eco earth or the like onto this, I don't know if you will like the finish you get using clear silicone sealant over a painted background to be honest.

Regarding grout, in build logs I have seen you don't need to seal it. You do however need to 'cure' it. As in make sure that all of the alkalinity has been leeched out of it before you house frogs, usually by repeatedly rinsing and rinsing and rinsing until the water pH doesn't change any more.

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

fardilis said:


> why would you paint a background with silicone?


No no no - now that would be daft - I just want to paint the background with epoxy resin to seal the paint job. The silicone will be used to stick eco-earth to the mortary bit inbetween the brickwork. It's almost as complicated to explain as it is to do - I'm sitting here with a massive befuddled frown on my face now trying to figure out how this got so confusing :lol2:
This is where I nicked the idea from - but our tank is going to have a false bottom.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/766130-mayan-themed-viv.html
I have used floor tile grout instead of concrete (is there a difference :blush


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> Eve, have a look on eBay for H5 Marine silicone, it's aquarium safe and comes in great big tubes for a much lower price. Oh and yes, you can seel a background with silicone. Folks who use foam often cover it in sillcone, usually though they then put eco earth or the like onto this, I don't know if you will like the finish you get using clear silicone sealant over a painted background to be honest.
> 
> Regarding grout, in build logs I have seen you don't need to seal it. You do however need to 'cure' it. As in make sure that all of the alkalinity has been leeched out of it before you house frogs, usually by repeatedly rinsing and rinsing and rinsing until the water pH doesn't change any more.
> 
> Ade


Ade you are fantastic!!! - you have answered the question I didn't even know how to ask - thank you! :no1:


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

Evie said:


> No no no - now that would be daft - I just want to paint the background with epoxy resin to seal the paint job. The silicone will be used to stick eco-earth to the mortary bit inbetween the brickwork. It's almost as complicated to explain as it is to do - I'm sitting here with a massive befuddled frown on my face now trying to figure out how this got so confusing :lol2:
> This is where I nicked the idea from - but our tank is going to have a false bottom.
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/766130-mayan-themed-viv.html
> I have used floor tile grout instead of concrete (is there a difference :blush


ok now that makes sense, just sounded a bit odd:blush:.

not sure about the finish of silicone-eco earth it works just dosn't look as good or hold as well.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

fardilis said:


> ok now that makes sense, just sounded a bit odd:blush:.
> 
> not sure about the finish of silicone-eco earth it works just dosn't look as good or hold as well.


Glad we cleared that up! :2thumb:
It looks alright on the thread I linked (not that this means anything 'cos that hasn't been done by a cracky lady) 
Any ideas for an alternative?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Made a mistake in my previous post, it's HA6 Marine Silicone. lol

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> *Chris man you're a genius!!!!:lol2:*
> The sealant is to paint over the background - poly, grout & expanding foam.


There is a fair bit of comic genius in this thread Murph,it has to be said,look mate the fingers are funny,erm ware gloves,what might make you smile more,but was horrendous at the time was i got the cleaner on me damn eyes full bore both filled,i work with nasty tools have done for a good time let me guard down just for a few seconds,for a few minutes later untill i got my head in water,i was wondering whether i would actually see again,my lids were stuck fast to my eyeballs,watch this stuff mate,the foam will be worse than the cleaner i was using.
Kiddo i hear you on the expense of the epoxy,i use it because i know it to be frog safe ie its sold for the job by folks whom know way way more than me,these damn frogs are just so sensitive to stuff,its always slow long term poisoning thats the issue,which is why Chris has pointed out the silicone issue with mould inhibitors/fungicides etc. There are cheeper epoxy than sold by dartfrog/ent/rana,Wests is used at jersey zoo,Lotte has told me. I'd say whatever you use be real sure mate....real sure!! 
I personally use this stuff in the hope that it will last along time,these little frogs can live surprising amounts of time,20yrs plus in larger darts,so mine is a beginners attempt to do it right and do it once,get them going and leave them happy in the home they like,whether or not it will all pan out i don't know but thats the goal,i wasn't able to find anyone with a viv set up for 10plus years so had no choice but to wing it,i'd have a word with your friends,you know whom i mean.This outside "skin" on a background is incredibly important, i think, what with the real high humidity and time duration,that it must hold up for. You've seen our thread: if there is a way of saving a buck ,i try to find it,and pass it on,occasionally i find no option but to spend a bit more and do the job right as best i see it,this is one of those cases,good luck with it kiddo
best
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> There is a fair bit of comic genius in this thread Murph,it has to be said,look mate the fingers are funny,erm ware gloves,what might make you smile more,but was horrendous at the time was i got the cleaner on me damn eyes full bore both filled,i work with nasty tools have done for a good time let me guard down just for a few seconds,for a few minutes later untill i got my head in water,i was wondering whether i would actually see again,my lids were stuck fast to my eyeballs,watch this stuff mate,the foam will be worse than the cleaner i was using.
> Kiddo i hear you on the expense of the epoxy,i use it because i know it to be frog safe ie its sold for the job by folks whom know way way more than me,these damn frogs are just so sensitive to stuff,its always slow long term poisoning thats the issue,which is why Chris has pointed out the silicone issue with mould inhibitors/fungicides etc. There are cheeper epoxy than sold by dartfrog/ent/rana,Wests is used at jersey zoo,Lotte has told me. I'd say whatever you use be real sure mate....real sure!!
> I personally use this stuff in the hope that it will last along time,these little frogs can live surprising amounts of time,20yrs plus in larger darts,so mine is a beginners attempt to do it right and do it once,get them going and leave them happy in the home they like,whether or not it will all pan out i don't know but thats the goal,i wasn't able to find anyone with a viv set up for 10plus years so had no choice but to wing it,i'd have a word with your friends,you know whom i mean.This outside "skin" on a background is incredibly important, i think, what with the real high humidity and time duration,that it must hold up for. You've seen our thread: if there is a way of saving a buck ,i try to find it,and pass it on,occasionally i find no option but to spend a bit more and do the job right as best i see it,this is one of those cases,good luck with it kiddo
> best
> Stu


Cheers Stu, 
I count myself lucky that it was just my fingers that got gooey - I'm sure it will slough off in a few days! Can't believe you glued your eyes you maniac!:lol2: Learning is always fun eh! 
I think I'm going to go for the dart frog epoxy resin - this project has to last and I'd be mortified to cause harm to the frogs just to save a few quid. I've been looking at all kinds of products but not sure enough to go for any of them which is why I asked you guys. We just try to embed sustainability and cost consciousness into the learning experience - it's so much more rewarding than just throwing cash at the project to solve every problem, but they also need to learn that where welfare is concerned it's best to spend the money and get it right.

I want them to come back and visit in years to come and see the occupants thriving in the enclosure they built.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh and we have the most beautiful chunk of bogwood to put in - it's huge - at least 4'x12" and twisted and I can't wait to put it in there. We've had it for years in various animal enclosures but this is where it's meant to live!


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Evie said:


> Cheers Stu,
> 
> I want them to come back and visit in years to come and see the occupants thriving in the enclosure they built.


Just curious and totally off topic Evie ( I blame Stu for the breakdown of what is and isn't off topic btw ) , but how committed to this project are you finding them?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Cheers Stu,
> I count myself lucky that it was just my fingers that got gooey - I'm sure it will slough off in a few days! Can't believe you glued your eyes you maniac!:lol2: Learning is always fun eh!
> I think I'm going to go for the dart frog epoxy resin - this project has to last and I'd be mortified to cause harm to the frogs just to save a few quid. I've been looking at all kinds of products but not sure enough to go for any of them which is why I asked you guys. We just try to embed sustainability and cost consciousness into the learning experience - it's so much more rewarding than just throwing cash at the project to solve every problem, but they also need to learn that where welfare is concerned it's best to spend the money and get it right.
> 
> I want them to come back and visit in years to come and see the occupants thriving in the enclosure they built.


Ha the best bit is i WAS wearing safety glasses and i thought i had finished,so took them off,a quick check of the foam gun as i put it away and bam,so easy to make a mistake,gun was still pressurised.
Mate as always check with every available source,i've only been doing this awhile,i have a method which works for me so far,without problems,but there are other ways,that one might use.If you do go epoxy,and from dartfrog be aware there are different viscosities,also be spot on with your measurements of hardner and resin...i mean spot on!! Finally before you mix them up be 110% that you have everything prepared.I measure 10 parts resin to 6 hardner by mm making marks on the tubs and pouring out accordingly,or what ever is applicable to what you buy 
you might be nuts mate but those kids are in good hands:notworthy:,i love the last bit of your above paragraph,
keep going 
Stu


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Sandsifter said:


> Just curious and totally off topic Evie ( I blame Stu for the breakdown of what is and isn't off topic btw ) , but how committed to this project are you finding them?


:2thumb:sorry mate:lol2:
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> Just curious and totally off topic Evie ( I blame Stu for the breakdown of what is and isn't off topic btw ) , but how committed to this project are you finding them?


They are very comitted - They chose the project from a number of options. They've been down in their free time to work on it, Even though they realise that they might not be directly involved by the time we get to putting frogs in. Some are interested in the creativity, some are interested in the conservation and some are interested in the biology of the frogs - there are so many ways to enjoy this that it appeals to a variety of people. It's a brilliant project for education, especially since they are under no illusions about my lack of knowledge of the subject - I just facilitate and we all learn together.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

As Stu said,

West System epoxy is the stuff we use, I've used it lots of times over the years both at work and with my own enclosures at home. 
WEST SYSTEM | Epoxy Resins and Hardeners

We get it cheapest from the chandlery at the harbour:2thumb:


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Evie said:


> They are very committed - They chose the project from a number of options. They've been down in their free time to work on it, Even though they realise that they might not be directly involved by the time we get to putting frogs in. Some are interested in the creativity, some are interested in the conservation and some are interested in the biology of the frogs - there are so many ways to enjoy this that it appeals to a variety of people. It's a brilliant project for education, especially since they are under no illusions about my lack of knowledge of the subject - I just facilitate and we all learn together.


There's something about that word "facilitate" that sends my "grumpy old git" level up to ten. 

Just picked myself up off the floor after reading that a huge Dart Viv was an "option" ?! What kind of nutter put that in the list?! 

Facilitate does not equal strait-jacket then?

Good luck with the project. Hope to learn a lot from it too 

Chris


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Evie your going to have to post some photo`s to show this tank off 

Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Evie your going to have to post some photo`s to show this tank off
> 
> Mike


 Yep- pics or it didn't happen! :lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sandsifter said:


> There's something about that word "facilitate" that sends my "grumpy old git" level up to ten.
> 
> Just picked myself up off the floor after reading that a huge Dart Viv was an "option" ?! What kind of nutter put that in the list?!
> 
> ...


Well it was me that put it on the list ya grumpy old git :lol2: I think at the time I was thinking about how a larger fish tank is a more stable environment than a small one and therefore easier to maintain :blush:

No strait-jackets involved - honest....however all the other options involved being outside in the cold/sleet/wind a lot so it was always a no brainer really. 
If you don't like facillitate you could try 'being a dogs body/gofer/shopper/reallocator of resources/the person that will get it in the neck if it all goes to shizzle! :gasp:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yep- pics or it didn't happen! :lol2:


I'll put pics on in a bit

Saedcantas cheers for the link. They are soing some fund raising this week then off doing exams and having Christmas hols so no further progress until January .... although I might not be able to resist the temptation to poke my fingers in some more expanding foam ..... well they have missed a bit :lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

The tank with the false bottom in

The background as it is now









This is the big piece of wood which is going in there. We have loads of broms, air plants and climbers, and there is thick moss growing on top of one of our outbuildings - so we're having some of that :whistling2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about Sandsifter Evie, he argues about everything and hasn't even set up his first dart viv yet. lol

It wont be easier to maintain, but the frogs will prefer it, and it will be seriously something to behold (no water means no worrying about water volume, as air can freely move between the inside of the viv and the atmosphere. lol). It will also allow for more choices and options, including using plants that would look stupid in smaller tanks. 

Ade


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

Subscribed, this will be amazing once finished, please keep us updated with the progress


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> image
> The tank with the false bottom in
> 
> The background as it is now
> ...


 This is going to be *seriously* impressive! :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm not commenting basically because I don't like it when people have bigger vivs than me.

Ner!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Hey mate,i can see why you were inspired by that viv!! Its going to be a stonking tank,i guess i should have mentioned that the foam can be manipulated,when just starting to cure.Iwould use the excuse of your fingers,but that would be wrong i just plain forgot:blush:,anyway lots of fun to be had carving:2thumb:
Doing great kiddo:notworthy:
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Aww cheers for the nice comments! I've had a really crappy day and you lot have cheered me up being all nice and that :blush:

Morgan if it makes you feel better we ended up using a 6 foot viv for the dart tank - the 7 footer we are doing is going to be for beardies. :whistling2:
We are doing another tank for beardies with the same background but different colours and wotnot. Hopfully this one should be finished by mid January. The dart one will take considerably longer!

Ron - lay off with the pressure!!! It may yet all go to shizzle..

Stu I just love doing risk assessments - sharp craft knives carving expanding foam :gasp:

I wanted to pick at it when the foam was curing but my colleague was being a pansy and insisted we left it to cure - I will take great pleasure in showing her this thread :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Aww cheers for the nice comments! I've had a really crappy day and you lot have cheered me up being all nice and that :blush:
> 
> Morgan if it makes you feel better we ended up using a 6 foot viv for the dart tank - the 7 footer we are doing is going to be for beardies. :whistling2:
> We are doing another tank for beardies with the same background but different colours and wotnot. Hopfully this one should be finished by mid January. The dart one will take considerably longer!
> ...


Omg i'm going to be in the middle of this:mf_dribble::lol2:
Here's a quick method just incase you need to use it
Erm put on some er GLOVES:bash::lol2:,use them horrid disposable ones
Apply foam
mist with water ( helps foam expand/ cure properly)
wait till it has got a skin on and just starting to cure
you can gently just tap it back by knocking some of the air out of it
best to have apractice on a bit first as its a feel thing my words and explanation will count for little against actually trying it.
you be carefull with those risk assessments mate,they can be sharp!!!
seeya
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm not commenting basically because I don't like it when people have bigger vivs than me.
> 
> Ner!


 Hah: *Tank Envy!:lol2:*

*@*Evie: Pressure, what pressure? Just produce something amazing, that's all I ask...:whistling2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Hello and happy new year! 
Well it's been a frustratingly long break from this project and the first thing I have to do is discover the complexities of using elastapur!
It arrived from Dartfrog today with the worlds smallest writing on the tin and most of the big writing in German - HELP!

We have read the data sheet and decided that it's not something we feel safe letting students loose with so we will be doing this bit ourselves.
So do we apply it with a brush? how much do we mix for one coat on a viv this size? I'm scared of it...
In other news (and this may come as a relief to some) my colleague and I are being sent on a DIY course - so that we know which end of a hammer to use to bang the nails in :lol2:
We will be getting on with the next stage on Friday (trimming the expanding foam) and then I'll be doing the sealing.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

:bash: It's all gone horribly wrong. I applied elastapur yesterday and it hasn't dried clear - it's all horrible, orange and streaky and I don't know how I can fix it. Gutted isn't the word.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> :bash: It's all gone horribly wrong. I applied elastapur yesterday and it hasn't dried clear - it's all horrible, orange and streaky and I don't know how I can fix it. Gutted isn't the word.


 Aaargh! I'm sure you'll sort it though.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Aaargh! I'm sure you'll sort it though.


Well I think I've come up with a possible way forward but it means we lose a lot of the detailed work they put in so far.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Photos of the disaster


Before

















After - dreadful isn't it :whip:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Just had a look on Google, and from what I can tell that's the normal colour for elastopur. Most folks put either a pigment in it, or some form of organic substrate on it. From what I can tell it's Epoxy resin that dries clear.

I know Stu uses Elatopur, but pretty certain he puts a pigment in it, and then covers it anyway.

Best I can suggest is to paint it with some safe acrylic paint, then seal it again with something that does dry clear.

Ade


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> Just had a look on Google, and from what I can tell that's the normal colour for elastopur. Most folks put either a pigment in it, or some form of organic substrate on it. From what I can tell it's Epoxy resin that dries clear.
> 
> I know Stu uses Elatopur, but pretty certain he puts a pigment in it, and then covers it anyway.
> 
> ...


Cheers Ade - I was told that it dried clear but I think there must have been some confusion. I can't ask for more money for sealant so I think we will re-carve the logo much deeper, cover the whole thing viv again with the other tin of elastopur and cover it all in eco earth and hope that does the trick. What do you all think? I've also got a few tubes of aquarium silicone for touching up where I missed.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

yeah there definitely was some confusion,you needed epoxy resin its clear and there is one that is much thiner in viscosity.We used elastopur once its very thick and pigmented,we used rockoflex under it,but i'm told elastopur is a one coat job.
Ade's right we covered it with subs
We now use epoxy resin with apigment and rockofles, but Murph for what you were trying to do and damn i wish i'd have spotted this,then plain epoxy is probably where you should have gone.
Anyway i seriously don't think your beat as long as this is set properly.
Options:contact ruud shouten at rana or Peter Nowark at ENT ask if you can put epoxy over elastopur,hell i don't know if you can,or if you can recarve the elastopur,it goes pretty hard,if it can't be carved your rocks still could possibly be recoloured and then a coat of epoxy leaving the elastopur as mortar between the rocks.Aternatively maybe do the mortar bit,with epoxy and then add subs so it looks like earth betwixt the stones
I think to recarve the detail you might need something like a dremmil,i've never tried to carve it so don't know.
Murph is this all fixed in tank? there might be other ways around this,the biggest thing here is finding out what can go over the elastopur and stick properly,my choice would be epoxy,if those 2 folks don't know then its going to be a "take achance job",but they should they have the stuff made. 
Guys could someone pop some links up for Evie (i call her Murph:whistling2
for ent and rana,i'll probably make a cock up of it
Stu


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## Antonyw (Dec 23, 2011)

Evie said:


> Cheers Ade - I was told that it dried clear but I think there must have been some confusion. I can't ask for more money for sealant so I think we will re-carve the logo much deeper, cover the whole thing viv again with the other tin of elastopur and cover it all in eco earth and hope that does the trick. What do you all think? I've also got a few tubes of aquarium silicone for touching up where I missed.


That's goin to be the sickest dart frog habitat:no1:, I'm just starting to do research on them now, mine won't be no were near as big as yours though.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Can do Stu.

ENT: E.N.T. Terrarientechnik

Dutch Rana: Nieuws

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Can do Stu.
> 
> ENT: E.N.T. Terrarientechnik
> 
> ...


cheers dude your a star:notworthy:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Antony - Chhers for the positive comments - lets hope I can fix this mess!

Stu and Ade - thanks for the links. 
Yes everything is fixed in the tank - I think pulling asphalt from under a house would be easier than removing the poly from the tank! 

My updated plan of action is to use the dremmil to re carve the detail on the logo, lightly sand the elastopur, repaint with acrylics, cover with epoxy and then use the other tin of elastopur to do the mortar and stick eco earth on. 

Painting with the elastapur was a nightmare of a job - as soon as I started I knew something wasn't right but you can't just do a test patch really.

Question for everyone - can I put the elastapur into some kind of piping bag/dispenser/syringe to target it exactly where I want it to go?

Feeling loads better about it now and the phoenix will rise from the ashes! :lol2:


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## Antonyw (Dec 23, 2011)

Antonyw said:


> That's goin to be the sickest dart frog habitat:no1:, I'm just starting to do research on them now, mine won't be no were near as big as yours though.


:2thumb: when do u think it will be up and running with frogs in


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Antony - Chhers for the positive comments - lets hope I can fix this mess!
> 
> Stu and Ade - thanks for the links.
> Yes everything is fixed in the tank - I think pulling asphalt from under a house would be easier than removing the poly from the tank!
> ...


Glad your feeling up mate,we all got faith in ya .
Anyway my issue with elastopur has always been 2 fold,one its viscosity...so damn thick and 2 the difficulty in using abit of it not the whole dam tin.
Actually you do mean elastopur and not epoxy?
because if you mean epoxy then my next bit is going to be very different, the epoxy paint rocks over lap to other bit...let dry mask off rocks paint epoxy onto other bits cover with subs work bottom to top let nearly dry... tacky remove tape...sorted
Elastopur open containers pour all hardener in to one clear container and all the other "stuff" into another clear identical container.Measure each so you can work our exactly how much of one to mix with how much of the other,
now mix abit of each in the right quantities,so you can try your piping bag without using it all,ie not waste the damn lot if it doesn't work...i'll be surprised if anyone else has done this,i haven't, so best i can chuck at you
seeya
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

It's fixed!!! We managed to get it back to it's previous state with a bit of sandpaper and paint. Hopefully this will help anyone else avoid making such an expensive mistake.

Here's how it's looking now - hopefully by next week or the week after I should be able to cover the whole lot in epoxy and use the rest of the elastopur to put the eco earth into the grout. Once that's done we can check that it still holding water and put it in situ, then add the substrate/plants/waterfall - the fun stuff!

















Antony I don't anticipate putting any frogs in for many months yet. There is a potential issue with fluctuating temperatures in the room we want to put it - so we are going to monitor it through the warmest and coldest parts of the year before adding frogs. We do have an exo terra we are also doing at the moment which will be kept in a different room with our other amphibs, so we will be able to put some frogs in that within the next few months (livefood cultures permitting).


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> It's fixed!!! We managed to get it back to it's previous state with a bit of sandpaper and paint. Hopefully this will help anyone else avoid making such an expensive mistake.
> 
> Here's how it's looking now - hopefully by next week or the week after I should be able to cover the whole lot in epoxy and use the rest of the elastopur to put the eco earth into the grout. Once that's done we can check that it still holding water and put it in situ, then add the substrate/plants/waterfall - the fun stuff!
> image
> ...


Rock'n' roll mate :2thumb:
Stu


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## Antonyw (Dec 23, 2011)

Ok I'll keep checking the thread to see how it's getting on


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well it's been another mad Friday, we managed to make more progress with the dart frog viv and have almost finished the bearded dragon viv.
The live food cultured are ordered so all good!

latest pic if the dart frog viv:









And a sneaky off topic pic of the matching bearded one:



















Just got to fit the heat lamp and UV lights properly.

We had a chat today about how to put a mesh fly proof top on the dart viv without making access too trick and one of our students suggested a plastic ziper or velcro opening. I think a zip is a genius idea. Has anyone ever tried it?


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## marcuswinner1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Evie said:


> We had a chat today about how to put a mesh fly proof top on the dart viv without making access too trick and one of our students suggested a plastic ziper or velcro opening. I think a zip is a genius idea. Has anyone ever tried it?


That is a good idea!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Well done on the viv mate,knew you'ld sort it,:lol2: no idea on the zip though,not too say it won't work my thoughts would revolve around the weight of the top, with the size of the tank,and securing the zip to it, so it is really secure.
I'b be inclided to make the top insections ,but would be interested to see where the zip idea takes you
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> Well done on the viv mate,knew you'ld sort it,:lol2: no idea on the zip though,not too say it won't work my thoughts would revolve around the weight of the top, with the size of the tank,and securing the zip to it, so it is really secure.
> I'b be inclided to make the top insections ,but would be interested to see where the zip idea takes you
> Stu


Well I think more than one zip - I'm really wanting to pioneer the zip idea and if it works it'll be my students contribution to dart keeping :lol2:

Ive put the eco earth into the 'mortar' bits now and it looks the dogs nuts! Well pleased with it. Got to hang fire with it for 2 weeks now - just as we are getting to the fun stuff too!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Latest pictures. We finally got it the right way up and wanted to test the weight bearing abilities of the false bottom by putting the piece of wood in (and chucked a few plants for photographic appeal). 
Next week we will be making sure it still holds water and putting in the substrate, filter, water feature, rocks, lights, planting it properly and generally finishing the whole thing off. The final job is to sort out the lid.


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

I think the viv looks fantastic!! I think you and your colleague are very talented :lol2: the EHC also looks very interesting


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

big bertha said:


> I think the viv looks fantastic!! I think you and your colleague are very talented :lol2: the EHC also looks very interesting


Hello Emma - about time you joined in this thread instead of letting me do all the work! 
May I introduce my talented colleague Emma (the one who wouldn't let me poke the expanding foam:lol2


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## Antonyw (Dec 23, 2011)

*Lookin good now*

How long befor it's finished? :2thumb:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

*Looking Fantastic!!*

omg this is looking great! subscribing to this thread because i really want to see the finished product!!!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Hmmm its alright for a couple of girls:Na_Na_Na_Na:,ok i lie and will go to hell,weldone both of ya and the wrecking crew,Hi Emma:welcome:,still reckon you need to show murph what disposable gloves are for,fancy not letting her play with the foam,shame on you:lol2:.
Murph: told ya it would be cool did i not,I quite like being right about something first time this year :blush:
Many congrats to all of you,if at first,well:bash::bash::bash: awsome guys
best
Stu


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

Thanks stu, I've been following the thread and your help and advice has been very helpful. As far as murph and gloves go she never learns! No hope for her:lol2:
So impressed with the tank it's amazing how it's all coming together now. The best part is the students are excited too which means our job is done : victory:
We're moving the tanks into their permenant homes this Friday, that's the scary part moving them by forklift!! :gasp: murph nearly faints every time we move them a couple of inch in the classroom never mind across busy car parks!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

big bertha said:


> Thanks stu, I've been following the thread and your help and advice has been very helpful. As far as murph and gloves go she never learns! No hope for her:lol2:
> So impressed with the tank it's amazing how it's all coming together now. The best part is the students are excited too which means our job is done : victory:
> We're moving the tanks into their permenant homes this Friday, that's the scary part moving them by forklift!! :gasp: murph nearly faints every time we move them a couple of inch in the classroom never mind across busy car parks!


Tis a cool thing you guys are doing,Emma,i wish i could have got up there to poke some fingers in too to be honest,my life doesn't extend to such joys at present. Yeah in the case of the move i can see why she's scared,i always breath a sigh of relief when a viv is in Da rack,just hope it all goes well,softly softly catchy froggy an all that.I can see why the students are clean mate who wouldn't be,weldone to both of you.Once its in situ i really hope the temps work but being such abig tank i'm sure it'll be fine,
thanks for making us all green with envy:no1:
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well this couple of girls along with our talented team managed to move the tank into its proper home yesterday...... well to be fair we begged, bullied and pleaded with the heroic boys from our estates department to move it for us, and yes it was all too stressful for me so I ran away leaving Emma to oversee this bit. :blush:
Anyway the end result is what counts and to our great relief it still holds water! 
Emma set up the external filter, while I watched and made lots of inappropriate comments as she sucked and spat on the end of the filter tube to get the water flowing through. :whistling2:
It’s half term this week so not much more progress will be made, but the next job is to build a waterfall inside the tank and get the lid properly sorted out.
Anthony I don't really know how much longer it will take - probably another month or so, but we won't be putting frogs in it for many months yet because of the question mark over the siting - temps may be a bit unstable in there. However we have made another smaller version in an exo terra which will be going in our aquarium/amphibian room which is warm and humid all the time. This viv is also almost done and should be ready for frogs within the next 2 weeks.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Quick pic - the light has just been chucked on for the picture and the interior decor is nowhere close to the finished product.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well here it is - our very first dart frog viv all built and finished. I had to get Stu to inspect it before I dared post the picture:lol2:
It's not the big build - this is our little practice..
and Stu is letting us have a couple of his auratus in a couple of weeks - so excited to be getting some gorgeous frogs at last :flrt:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Well i must say im disappointed....... NOT REALLY! :Na_Na_Na_Na:

It's AMAZING! Well done to you both its a really good build!!  i might have to try something like that in the future! lol :2thumb:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

MantellaMan said:


> Well i must say im disappointed....... NOT REALLY! :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> It's AMAZING! Well done to you both its a really good build!!  i might have to try something like that in the future! lol :2thumb:


Aww bless you - thanks! It's not bad for a bunch of students led by a pair of novice ladies!
Only trouble is it's making the WTF, FBT and horned frogs vivs look very poor in comparison... I think they are gonna get jealous - well that's going to be my excuse for making their vivs look a but funkier anyway :lol2:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Evie said:


> Aww bless you - thanks! It's not bad for a bunch of students led by a pair of novice ladies!
> Only trouble is it's making the WTF, FBT and horned frogs vivs look very poor in comparison... I think they are gonna get jealous - well that's going to be my excuse for making their vivs look a but funkier anyway :lol2:


Not bad at all, Not bad for a first time either!! lol  

and haha you totally need to make their vivs funkier too! :L just work your way through all of them and do threads on them too because i want to see them done now! haha  

I need to do a good one for my Crocodile Newts now though which is a bit of a hard one :/ lol


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

MantellaMan said:


> Not bad at all, Not bad for a first time either!! lol
> 
> and haha you totally need to make their vivs funkier too! :L just work your way through all of them and do threads on them too because i want to see them done now! haha
> 
> I need to do a good one for my Crocodile Newts now though which is a bit of a hard one :/ lol


I saw your thread - they are fab little critters! 
I'm sure inspiration will come - I was all for making a vivarium out of a tumble drier once but someone sensible put a stop to it :lol2:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Evie said:


> I saw your thread - they are fab little critters!
> I'm sure inspiration will come - I was all for making a vivarium out of a tumble drier once but someone sensible put a stop to it :lol2:


ahhh you saw the one i made about them?  thank you im very proud of them i wont deny it!  But i didnt expect to find the rarer sub-species! lol 

and hahahahaha! :lol2: No way!! that would be awesome to see done! Thats on a par with that guy who put a TV in with his Monitor! :L


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> I saw your thread - they are fab little critters!
> I'm sure inspiration will come - I was all for making a vivarium out of a tumble drier once but someone sensible put a stop to it :lol2:


not guilty !!!!!!!!!


We think you've all done great mate,bring on Da Froshe,i agree with josh (MM) you'll have to show us all updates to other vivs though...its the law
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> not guilty !!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> We think you've all done great mate,bring on Da Froshe,i agree with josh (MM) you'll have to show us all updates to other vivs though...its the law
> Stu


Well as a law abiding citizen you can be sure I'll be right on it!

And thanks Stu you're a legend for your advice, and for putting up with me pestering you constantly - soon I will be an indepenant keeper figuring things out for myself - but for now, I'm sorry mate but you'll just have to stay logged in! :lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Well as a law abiding citizen you can be sure I'll be right on it!
> 
> And thanks Stu you're a legend for your advice, and for putting up with me pestering you constantly - soon I will be an indepenant keeper figuring things out for myself - but for now, I'm sorry mate but you'll just have to stay logged in! :lol2:


I'm just a beginner dude lets not forget that so always thoughts ponderings and musings sit better than advice with me.Beyond that how could i not want to help you guys out,your bringing on some kids, some of which are going to be awsome in all senses of the word as we have seen already:2thumb:
Mind it has to be said goddamit girl this has aged me:Na_Na_Na_Na:
LMAO
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> Aww bless you - thanks! It's not bad for a bunch of students led by a pair of novice ladies!
> *Only trouble is it's making the WTF, FBT and horned frogs vivs look very poor in comparison... I think they are gonna get jealous - well that's going to be my excuse for making their vivs look a but funkier anyway :lol2:*


 It has to be done.

Oh, and don't listen when Stu puts himself down- his combination of experience, common sense and hard work is *not* what you find in a 'beginner'!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> It has to be done.
> 
> Oh, and don't listen when Stu puts himself down- his combination of experience, common sense and hard work is *not* what you find in a 'beginner'!


Totally agree with you Ron - no-one can be as commited as he and not have gained a massive amount of knowledge and expertise.... Whether he likes it or not (and I'm sure he won't like it) I am in complete awe of the guy!


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Evie said:


> Totally agree with you Ron - no-one can be as commited as he and not have gained a massive amount of knowledge and expertise.... Whether he likes it or not (and I'm sure he won't like it) I am in complete awe of the guy!



I have tried to compliment him before and wouldnt have any of it, YOU'RE TO MODEST STU!!! lol


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> I have tried to compliment him before and wouldnt have any of it, YOU'RE TO MODEST STU!!! lol


B*stards:Na_Na_Na_Na:lovely guys cheers but 1year does not an expert make,period.We are who we are simple guys whom want to do well for our frogs,and chuck abit back for help given to us,by folks whose knowledge is blinding at times
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> B*stards:Na_Na_Na_Na:lovely guys cheers but 1year does not an expert make,period.We are who we are simple guys whom want to do well for our frogs,and chuck abit back for help given to us,by folks whose knowledge is blinding at times
> Stu


 Yeah, yeah, yeah...:whistling2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah...:whistling2:


:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2: 'ere Ron... (sorry murph but Stu's excited:mf_dribble 2 little luecs have just popped front legs,had to tell someone :2thumb::2thumb:,awsome:lol2:
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2: 'ere Ron... (sorry murph but Stu's excited:mf_dribble 2 little luecs have just popped front legs,had to tell someone :2thumb::2thumb:,awsome:lol2:
> Stu


 :2thumb::2thumb::no1::2thumb::2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> :2thumb::2thumb::no1::2thumb::2thumb:


i'll say thanks mate an then stop hijacking Murph's thread, I'll see if i can get something up elsewhere later amazing the colour change Ron.
Stu


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## BettyMuppet (Feb 18, 2012)

Evie said:


> Well here it is - our very first dart frog viv all built and finished. I had to get Stu to inspect it before I dared post the picture:lol2:
> It's not the big build - this is our little practice..
> and Stu is letting us have a couple of his auratus in a couple of weeks - so excited to be getting some gorgeous frogs at last :flrt:
> 
> image


There was a bit of a leak coming out of it on Friday, so I put a bucket under it.
Only joking lol.

Yay!!!! Well done to you both. Peace at last maybe??? Ha ha.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

BettyMuppet said:


> There was a bit of a leak coming out of it on Friday, so I put a bucket under it.
> Only joking lol.
> 
> Yay!!!! Well done to you both. Peace at last maybe??? Ha ha.


Betty does that mean peace for you or me:whistling2:
Stu


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## BettyMuppet (Feb 18, 2012)

Both of us hope fully Stu!! Although I very much doubt it!! :2thumb:

You have to answer all the questions though, so a bit more brain taxing. I only have to listen and help her "acquire" stuff from around campus to help build. (usually on dark mornings when no one can see us!!!)

They have done a fantastic job though. Both tanks look fab!!!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

BettyMuppet said:


> Both of us hope fully Stu!! Although I very much doubt it!! :2thumb:
> 
> You have to answer all the questions though, so a bit more brain taxing. I only have to listen and help her "acquire" stuff from around campus to help build. (usually on dark mornings when no one can see us!!!)
> 
> They have done a fantastic job though. Both tanks look fab!!!


yeah mate total agreement an awesome job,don't tell her though, she'll come over all:mf_dribble:....on us i'm ace at "aquiring" stuff,and always legit...do you want the brain stuff:lol2: 

Stu


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

BettyMuppet said:


> There was a bit of a leak coming out of it on Friday, so I put a bucket under it.
> Only joking lol.
> 
> Yay!!!! Well done to you both. Peace at last maybe??? Ha ha.


Peace??!!! Defo not today after all the bickering me n murph have been doing!!  how woodlouse and springtails can split opinion?? :bash: it's ok though friends still so darts will still have a home : victory:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

big bertha said:


> Peace??!!! Defo not today after all the bickering me n murph have been doing!!  how woodlouse and springtails can split opinion?? :bash: it's ok though friends still so darts will still have a home : victory:


:lol2: split the cultures have one set each,tell us who does the best,and we'll all steal the best method :2thumb:
frog keepers huh
Stu


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> :lol2: split the cultures have one set each,tell us who does the best,and we'll all steal the best method :2thumb:
> frog keepers huh
> Stu


Good plan! Is there nothing you can't solve??? :2thumb: to be fair we bicker all the time. Sitting next to each other doesn't help! Plus she has a sign saying I'm with grumpy pointing my way :gasp: bullying I tell u :lol2:
In all seriousness she's made a good waterfall feature for the big viv just needs tweaking ( plus a risk assessment after I sliced my finger fitting the inlet pipe today- how are frogs with blood??!!:whistling2 she's brill at problem solving just think I'm too big of a problem :banghead:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

big bertha said:


> Good plan! Is there nothing you can't solve??? :2thumb: to be fair we bicker all the time. Sitting next to each other doesn't help! Plus she has a sign saying I'm with grumpy pointing my way :gasp: bullying I tell u :lol2:
> In all seriousness she's made a good waterfall feature for the big viv just needs tweaking ( plus a risk assessment after I sliced my finger fitting the inlet pipe today- how are frogs with blood??!!:whistling2 she's brill at problem solving just think I'm too big of a problem :banghead:


brilliant damn you guys make me laugh,if ya weren't so far away i'd ask for a job
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> brilliant damn you guys make me laugh,if ya weren't so far away i'd ask for a job
> Stu


You have to be a few marbles short of a newt to work at our place Stu, but we have loads of fun in between the mountains of paperwork

Even though my fountain is technically dangerous - it looks ok and it works well. Amazing what you can do with a few bits of slate and silicone.

We are flushing water through the exo viv every other day to make sure there are no traces of chemicals lurking from the build. Cultures are thriving in there, and the plants have perked up so we're getting there.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> You have to be a few marbles short of a newt to work at our place Stu, but we have loads of fun in between the mountains of paperwork
> 
> Even though my fountain is technically dangerous - it looks ok and it works well. Amazing what you can do with a few bits of slate and silicone.
> 
> We are flushing water through the exo viv every other day to make sure there are no traces of chemicals lurking from the build. Cultures are thriving in there, and the plants have perked up so we're getting there.


See I'm even qualified:2thumb:
These things can take time murph,somehow,mainly because i work slow i don't oft encounter problems with smell /traces of chems etc,but if the cultures and plants are doing then i wouldn't be worrying too much,for too long
As long as,your technically dangerous fountain is only dangerous to us ,can't see any problems,Murph there was a great quote somewhere i read,went something like this:
Q,are there any problems with these spikey broms being a danger to my frogs
A, Hmmm maybe ,but in the wild there are hit squads of highly intelligent monkeys that run around in front of the frogs bubble wrapping anything sharp in their path.
See i can do risk assesments too:whistling2:
Stu


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> See I'm even qualified:2thumb:
> These things can take time murph,somehow,mainly because i work slow i don't oft encounter problems with smell /traces of chems etc,but if the cultures and plants are doing then i wouldn't be worrying too much,for too long
> As long as,your technically dangerous fountain is only dangerous to us ,can't see any problems,Murph there was a great quote somewhere i read,went something like this:
> Q,are there any problems with these spikey broms being a danger to my frogs
> ...


If only our h&s officer would allow us to do risk assessment like this! Would make the task much more fun!!:lol2:


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## hannahwilson (Feb 16, 2012)

looks great :no1:
well worth all the effort  xxxx


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## hannahwilson (Feb 16, 2012)

Evie said:


> Well here it is - our very first dart frog viv all built and finished. I had to get Stu to inspect it before I dared post the picture:lol2:
> It's not the big build - this is our little practice..
> and Stu is letting us have a couple of his auratus in a couple of weeks - so excited to be getting some gorgeous frogs at last :flrt:
> 
> image


proud of us  x


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## dannysargent (Oct 7, 2011)

im proud of us it looks better than expected. it just shows that a bit of hard work and perseverance goes a long way


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey Danny and Hannah - nice to see you're doing a bit of home study!:lol2:

It gives me a buzz to know you feel proud of what you've achieved. 

Now we've done the bit that lets us make mistakes - once we get the frogs we will have to be without error! Keep reading guys!!:notworthy:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Danny Hannah :welcome:
Stu


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## hannahwilson (Feb 16, 2012)

**

its been well worth it 

no more turning things orange hehe! im just glad there's no more moving those tanks around


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Well thanks to Stu we are privileged to be the proud keepers of these 2 little dudes! :flrt:

Doodle:









And Smurf










Thanks again Stu for the time and effort put into the rearing and care of these guys, and taking the time to make sure we have all the information we need to continue your good work.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

totally welcome murph,lovely to meet you guys and put faces to names,lets face it what could be better than talking darts for a few hours,i just wish we could have squeezed Shaz in the room too,but it was a logistical 'mare as it was.
Oh great photos mate
best
Stu


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## dannysargent (Oct 7, 2011)

Evie said:


> Well thanks to Stu we are privileged to be the proud keepers of these 2 little dudes! :flrt:
> 
> Doodle:
> image
> ...


 
finally got them then lol. they are awesome and at least its something different for us students to learn about


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## hannahwilson (Feb 16, 2012)

**

The frogs are sooo cute :2thumb:

looking forward to seeing them on the academy on friday ... and cant wait for them to go into the small exo terra tank .... DEFIANTLY worth all the effort now we have the frogs 

proud of us! xxx


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## hannahwilson (Feb 16, 2012)

**

also THANKS STU !!!!!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Just thought I's add this picture of the viv as it is today - lots of growth. Still no proper lid or inhabitants yet (unless you count the plastic frog and the inverts). It's really hard to get a decent picture because of the light and reflection.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

Looking good Evie, just a word on the spider plants you have in there, when you get a Lisbon don't be surprised if they die back, mine really didn't like high humidity. 

Let us know what you decide to do regarding the lid 

Ben

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

phelsumaman said:


> Looking good Evie, just a word on the spider plants you have in there, when you get a Lisbon don't be surprised if they die back, mine really didn't like high humidity.
> 
> Let us know what you decide to do regarding the lid
> 
> ...


Oh dear Ben - forgive my stupid... whats a Lisbon? :bash:
The spider plants have grown really well but all the other plants seem really slow growing.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

Evie said:


> Oh dear Ben - forgive my stupid... whats a Lisbon? :bash:
> The spider plants have grown really well but all the other plants seem really slow growing.


Doh! Stupid spellcheck meant to say lid on!

Once the other plants get established they'll take off. I had a spider plant in my viv before I added the lid when the lid went on it basically stopped growing and began to rot away 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

phelsumaman said:


> Doh! Stupid spellcheck meant to say lid on!
> 
> Once the other plants get established they'll take off. I had a spider plant in my viv before I added the lid when the lid went on it basically stopped growing and began to rot away
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Haha I've been googling Lisbon/frog/amphibian for the last ten minutes trying to figure out if it was a kind of plant or a frog DOH!

The tank has a kind of lid on but it's just a solid piece of plywood. I put it on so that there was something to attach a light to for the plants. It's only temporary and I will definitely let you know when it has a proper lid. 
It doesn't get sprayed that often and there's nothing measuring the humidity in their at the moment (must remember to address this). There is a waterfall in the corner though - right where the spiders are growing - it's the wettest bit of the viv too.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

Hi Evie, 
How's the viv getting on? Have you decided on a lid yet? Would be great to get an update on how this huge viv is doing?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I have to say, it's very beautiful!


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

It's very nice indeed, I like that it's not overly in your face. I'll echoe the spider plant problem as mine is starting to go a bit brown. Really nice work though :2thumb:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi thanks people 
Well I've been on leave for the last two weeks and it's not been the best week. Had to have my old dog put to sleep yesterday so feeling fragile. Anyway rather than moping about at home I am going to go into work today and since I am still on leave I am going to spend the whole day faffing with vivs. 

It's looking increasingly like it's going to end up with red eyed tree frogs in it. We have got five more regular sized amphib tanks set up and ready to stock too.
I think I'm going to get the joiner to cut the current lid in half and jigsaw a huge hole in each half and stretch mesh over it. The light is off an old bank of fish tanks (like you get in pet shops), it is siliconed onto the inside of the lid towards the back. I'll get some pics when it's done.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Would have been a nice day today if I hadn't had to kick start the external filter on this viv - sucking rank water through the tube ewwwwwwww!

Anyway the lid is done and this is why I'm not allowed power tools....
In the absence of a joiner I had to do it myself - I predict a very short life span but I think it will do the job for the time being...


First cut a big (wobbly) hole for ventilation and attach a handle..









The light unit is siliconed on the inside....









Then staple some green mesh stuff over the top..









I'm going to have varnish it to prevent it from warping and the staples from rusting and falling out. I would have liked it to be in two pieces but because of the light unit I couldn't do that way so it's one big piece.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> Hi thanks people
> *Well I've been on leave for the last two weeks and it's not been the best week. Had to have my old dog put to sleep yesterday so feeling fragile. Anyway rather than moping about at home I am going to go into work today and since I am still on leave I am going to spend the whole day faffing with vivs.
> *
> It's looking increasingly like it's going to end up with red eyed tree frogs in it. We have got five more regular sized amphib tanks set up and ready to stock too.
> I think I'm going to get the joiner to cut the current lid in half and jigsaw a huge hole in each half and stretch mesh over it. The light is off an old bank of fish tanks (like you get in pet shops), it is siliconed onto the inside of the lid towards the back. I'll get some pics when it's done.


I'm really sorry to hear that Evie- I was totally surprised at how much it hit me when one of my cats had to be euthanised- work even gave me a card! :flrt:

The only question I would have about RETFs is height? Sorry, I remember it's a humungous viv, but I can't remember how tall it is- and as canopy frogs, they really need space to move.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> I'm really sorry to hear that Evie- I was totally surprised at how much it hit me when one of my cats had to be euthanised- work even gave me a card! :flrt:
> 
> The only question I would have about RETFs is height? Sorry, I remember it's a humungous viv, but I can't remember how tall it is- and as canopy frogs, they really need space to move.


Cheers Ron - I am very lucky because my boss used to teach pet bereavement to vet nurses so she is really supportive at times like this, plus all my colleagues are animal lovers too so a good support network.

The viv is 2ft high but with substrate etc. its probably closer to 18" vertical space.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> Cheers Ron - I am very lucky because my boss used to teach pet bereavement to vet nurses so she is really supportive at times like this, plus all my colleagues are animal lovers too so a good support network.
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


We will, of course, expect pics when the inhabitants move in!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

I have seen some really superb artificial plants (saying artificial plants feels like swearing in here:gasp with huge tree frog pleasing leaves in my friends pet shop. I will be installing some before the RETFs go in - I will of course be proudly displaying the new recruits for your viewing pleasure :2thumb:

In other news we are expecting a whole load of new amphib critters in the very near future...... :flrt:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> *I have seen some really superb artificial plants (saying artificial plants feels like swearing in here:gasp* with huge tree frog pleasing leaves in my friends pet shop. I will be installing some before the RETFs go in - I will of course be proudly displaying the new recruits for your viewing pleasure :2thumb:
> 
> In other news we are expecting a whole load of new amphib critters in the very near future...... :flrt:


*Wash* your mouth out, woman- and with lye soap, none of this namby-pamby modern stuff! :gasp::gasp::gasp:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Murph,
I'm not quite sure any soap will be strong enough,plastic??? goddammit woman next we'll be seeing plastic frogs inviv:gasp:,i can't think of anyone who would do that:whistling2:
Sweatheart I'm sorry about your mate,cause that's what dogs are,best not go there on this one,on a personal level,well ya know me well enough .

What are red eyed tree frogs?:Na_Na_Na_Na:

best always
Stu


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

Evie, so sorry to hear about your dog, I know what it feels like to lose a best friend. Red eyed tree frogs may be a good idea for the viv, your viv should suit them. The ventilation you have sorted in the lid you have designed is perfect for this type of frog if what I have read is correct. I wouldn't worry about the plants just yet, leave what you have in there, there's so much space they may not bother the spider plant at all, if they do just replace with something else, I'm sure that we can sort something not too plasticky for you, lol ;-) keep the updates coming, it's not often someone creates a viv this large and impressive so credit to your students and you. I'm sure we would all love to see this with some RETF's. Bring it on !
Ben


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Stu the plastic frog is doing a fantastic job of fooling people into thinking the tank is inhabited - although we have to keep moving it around - wonder if people will notice the difference when it gets swapped for the real thing.. :Na_Na_Na_Na:

We had a bit of a shopping spree yesterday and will also be adding more darts, salamanders, fire bellied toads and a bullfrog to the gang. 

Ben thanks for the vote of confidence on the lid. 

The plastic plants I am thinking of are basically just a big leaf and stalk - scindapas smart plant. I can't imagine being able to grow a real plant with such big leaves in the viv... but then again I could be wrong.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Evie said:


> Stu the plastic frog is doing a fantastic job of fooling people into thinking the tank is inhabited - although we have to keep moving it around - wonder if people will notice the difference when it gets swapped for the real thing.. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> We had a bit of a shopping spree yesterday and will also be adding more darts, salamanders, fire bellied toads and a bullfrog to the gang.
> 
> ...


Scindapsis (the real thing) is actually one of the easiest plants ever to grow in vivs.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Scindapsis (the real thing) is actually one of the easiest plants ever to grow in vivs.


yup we have the spotty one,Murph it will look great in there:2thumb:
Stu


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Alright, alright I'll get some real ones - remind me never to mention sneaky short cuts on the forum again :lol2:

What would I do without you guys :blush:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Evie said:


> Alright, alright I'll get some real ones - remind me never to mention sneaky short cuts on the forum again :lol2:
> 
> What would I do without you guys :blush:


Waddayamean,i thought we were all about sneaky short cuts,:whistling2:



Hmmm maybe just me then:censor: it

Stu


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