# RSPCA's letter campaign....WE NEED YOU!!..



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I know this has been covered alot in numerous threads but there is alot of rumors and such, but today I have been doing some research on the matter and this is what I have found out I dont know if its been said already but if it has its probably in the middle of some hectic threads.

I have read that since the early 90's the RSPCA have been campaigning for a ban on reptile keeping with on average 100 anti reptile press releases a year. So its not a new thing.

In 2003 they released there most recent policy which is just a revised version of older policies, this the outline.


In the current RSPCA policy document Policies on animal welfare (revised 2003) it is stated that:- 
"Exotic animals such as snakes, lizards and terrapins often carry disease, are difficult to look after and are rarely provided with adequate facilities. Such animals are unsuitable as companion animals"

I have seen a few people asking what they can do to help so heres a couple of things.

The Federation of British Herpetologists

If you go onto the Federation of British herpetologists website, which Ratboy has mentioned about supporting in another thread, they tell you up to date info, on all the current goings on, also for £10 you can join for a year and they send newsletters and things that you can do, which is good to bump their numbers up and for a tenner its not alot to support the hobby.

Also there is a link to a faxyourMP.com link it isnt working for me so I dont know if thats just for me or if its the same for everyone, but it wouldnt take long to draft out a letter to send and the more people that send them the more good its doing.

Another thing is, im sure nearly all of you have done it already but sign the petition on their site which is the actual one on the parliament site.

You may think I have changed my views a bit in just one afternoon lol, but the more I read into it the more it worries me and plus it doesnt take alot to do a couple of simple things.

I dont know the rules on posting links to other forums on here but this one seems quite relevant just because of updates and finding out things to do, also again the more members the better and it would be good to get their numbers up.


:: Index


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

good on ya si, for taking what has been said on board.
a great and informative post........ gonna give you rep and I dont really give rep cos its 'not my thing!'


----------



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

I've added some rep for that too....

Si, if you have been on the FBH site you probably already know, but Chris Newman who has been posting on the _important_ thread above is the chairman of the FBH and is usually very happy to put anyone straight about the dangers facing this hobby at this point in time.

Steve


----------



## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

This is what I have sent my local MPs... I know some people just don't know what to say, this is my words, and my opinion, and what I consider to be a little information coming honestly.. it's not full of facts, figures, demands or threats... but I thought some people might be interested in what I wrote, considering no one is formulating a letter/template for others to read.. if anyone wants to use any of what i've written please feel free 



> It has come to my attention that there are some campaigns and policies that are being changed and written up by the RSPCA in regards to the keeping of reptiles as pets.
> 
> I am a lifelong reptile owner, keeper, and it is also my business. I am concerned about some of the information being put out by the RSPCA and other organisations which suggest that new policies may be implemented to attempt to limit, or ban completely the keeping of reptiles as pets.
> 
> ...


Took me 15-20 minutes to write and I think 15-20 minutes out of the day to write a letter instead of the 2 mins to sign a petition is well worth it, so consider doing it


----------



## charliet (Mar 24, 2007)

Athravan,

Thats great, I have just copied and edited some of your letter, put my name to it and sent it to my local MP. Really helpful cause I have exams coming up and dont have the time to draft a letter myself. Thanks!

Website to find and write to your MP:

WriteToThem.com - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thanks guys, I think this thread could be useful for facts and links about it instead of just speculation, where people can check up on whats really going on and post their template letters and such, im going to sit down and write a letter today, yours is good Athravan I think im going to use your facts about salmanella and psittacosis, if even half the people on here that care about reptiles were to write letters that would be a start.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Also I emailed FOCAS about the matter and they replied with this email, very quickly.

Simon,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us regards the issue of
banning reptiles. Under the Animal Welfare Act there is unlikely to
be a complete ban on the keeping of reptiles. However, it most
certainly could have a very significant impact on keepers. For
example the RSPCA demand that a snake must be able to lay outstretched
and not touch either end of the vivarium, this would be extremely
damaging as probably 99% of people that keep snakes, the snake is
longer than the vivarium.

However, there is a provision within the Act which can ban the keeping
of animals that the government thinks are not suitable for private
keepers, so there is the potential for reptiles to be banned under
this Act.

There are also other Act which could also ban or severely restrict
keeping. For example recently it was proposed that certain reptiles
species should be prohibited from private ownership under article 8.2
of CITES, this has been defeated at the moment. Additionally the UK
government is proposing to implement the EU Habitats Directive which
would have very serious implications for the keeping of European
species of reptiles and amphibians, in effect it could ban them.

There is also the Dangerous Wild Animals Act which is currently being
reviewed, this could seriously restrict the keeping of large snakes,
over 9 feet, if they are added to the schedule. There is also a
review of the Non-native Species Policy, there are proposals under
this to prohibit the keeping/trade of certain reptiles and amphibians.
This could ultimately prohibit the keeping of any species which could
survive in the UK in a wild state - corn snakes for example!

While clearly there is some scaremongering, it is not without some
foundation. It is unlikely that we will see a complete ban on the
keeping of reptiles in the foreseeable future, but it is not within
the bounds of impossibility. What we will see the chipping away at the
peripheries, bans on certain species. Once we have a ban on the
ownership of a single species, this will be a slippery slop leading to
the banning of more and more species in the future.

I hope this has been of some help, please do not hesitate to contact
me if you require any further information.

Regards,
Chris Newman


----------



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

good idea! before the slippery slope becomes too steep to stand on we should all write to our MP and make them aware of this, and also what their stand is on the issue.
I've contacted my MP (Andy Burnham) using Athravans letter as a template because i'm rubbish at writing stuff like that, and await his reply.


----------



## nicky (Jul 13, 2005)

great letter athraven, whole thing just makes me so angry, as been said yes there are crap keepers out there but why should the good ones suffer, same as everything else but their only targeting us, what gets me the most is my house if full of reps i rehomed for the rspca and i have mentioned on here before that all caresheets given by them are completely wrong....anyway think i will join you in your letter campaign..


----------



## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Athravan said:


> This is what I have sent my local MPs... I know some people just don't know what to say, this is my words, and my opinion, and what I consider to be a little information coming honestly.. it's not full of facts, figures, demands or threats... but I thought some people might be interested in what I wrote, considering no one is formulating a letter/template for others to read.. if anyone wants to use any of what i've written please feel free
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
A thousand thank yous. I am gonna rep you, because this is what was badle needed so that others can contribute in some way. i tried the other day to do a letter, but couldnt get to grips with it.

Thanks again :no1:


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

thanks, and emails sent to both my uni and home MP. Hope you dont mind SiUK but i used yours as a template as it was very well written and presented. 

Jay


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

right looking through this page

http://www.writetothem.com/who?pc=B...t/30462-few-things-about-rspcas-campaign.html

i was thinking I may as well email them instead of sending individual letters, well for now anyway I will most probably send letters in the future, I have sent a letter to my local MP David Laws but I notice all the other counsellars for different parties is it worth sending emails to them all??


----------



## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

SiUK said:


> right looking through this page
> 
> http://www.writetothem.com/who?pc=B...t/30462-few-things-about-rspcas-campaign.html
> 
> i was thinking I may as well email them instead of sending individual letters, well for now anyway I will most probably send letters in the future, I have sent a letter to my local MP David Laws but I notice all the other counsellars for different parties is it worth sending emails to them all??


I would say yes. then you have different party stances, and you could effectively play one off another later on.

I am struggling with that site, since MSPs aren't available on it a present, due to the elcetions next week. No doubt i will get a few of them at the door, so i will be prepared.


----------



## gaz (Oct 5, 2005)

just a thought but handwritten letters impress the crap out of politicians,may well be worth the little extra effort
regards gaz


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeh I sent a handwritten one to my local MP just to the other counsellers im just sending an email for now, if no reply which I doubt then in a couple of weeks I will send handwritten letters.


----------



## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Also when you send an email, make sure you put a read reciept on, just so you know.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

peaches said:


> Also when you send an email, make sure you put a read reciept on, just so you know.


whats one of those?


----------



## Morelia Matt (Dec 6, 2006)

Athravan said:


> This is what I have sent my local MPs... I know some people just don't know what to say, this is my words, and my opinion, and what I consider to be a little information coming honestly.. it's not full of facts, figures, demands or threats... but I thought some people might be interested in what I wrote, considering no one is formulating a letter/template for others to read.. if anyone wants to use any of what i've written please feel free
> 
> 
> 
> Took me 15-20 minutes to write and I think 15-20 minutes out of the day to write a letter instead of the 2 mins to sign a petition is well worth it, so consider doing it


thats a very well worded letter, i will definately do something similar to our MP when i find his/her address? as yu say it will only take 20-30 min of peoples time so the more the merrier i say?

EDIT: how do you add a read reciept? i assume that is an alert you get when someone reads the email you send?


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Royal Boa said:


> thats a very well worded letter, i will definately do something similar to our MP when i find his/her address? as yu say it will only take 20-30 min of peoples time so the more the merrier i say?
> 
> EDIT: how do you add a read reciept? i assume that is an alert you get when someone reads the email you send?


once you know who your local MP is, its easy to find an address then you could just pop it in the post theres a link somewhere back in this thread that helps you find your local MP.

I have sent emails to all the local counsellers and an actual letter to the local MP.


----------



## nicky (Jul 13, 2005)

just want to check as i am in Scotland now so does this proposed bill affect us in the same way....and are the RSPCA and the SSPCA (which is what we have) one in the same?..anyone..


----------



## JAM3S (Jan 17, 2007)

i think il use athravens as a template and hand write it..


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

This is another email I have recieved from Chris Newman today


"Simon,

We do face difficult times ahead; the anti animal keeping fraternity
are a very powerful lobby. Regrettably the pro lobby are typically
passive, this is not unsurprising as most of us would rather get on
with keeping animals than campaigning!

The only standard for animal keeping is good or above, none of us
support bad keepers. However, with regards to some of the more
sensational stories in the media, particularly concerning 'dumped'
animals I am some what circumspect about the authenticity.

As regards to the RSPCA all we can do is keep chipping away, over the
passed couple of years there have been some very critical article
published about the RSPCA. Currently I am working with the BBC,
Channel 5 and a couple of newspapers, all we can do is keep trying!

Regards,
Chris"

So that is some promising publicity with TV and newspapers


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

What I want to know is do people think all this is going a bit over the top?


----------



## Morelia Matt (Dec 6, 2006)

SiUK said:


> once you know who your local MP is, its easy to find an address then you could just pop it in the post theres a link somewhere back in this thread that helps you find your local MP.
> 
> I have sent emails to all the local counsellers and an actual letter to the local MP.


cheers mate. il have a look after dinner.


----------



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

SiUK said:


> What I want to know is do people think all this is going a bit over the top?


No - if we don't do anything now, sometime in the future we will be all sat there looking at empty vivs wondering why we didn't do anything.


----------



## morph (Jan 31, 2007)

eeji said:


> No - if we don't do anything now, sometime in the future we will be all sat there looking at empty vivs wondering why we didn't do anything.


I totally agree.
I will be out there with my soapbox and banner and chaining myself to a few fences.
Before sitting back and allowing a small minded minority to dictate to me about the keeping of reptiles.:bash:


----------



## Guest (Apr 26, 2007)

This is what i sent to my MP

Dear Douglas Carswell,
It has come to my attention that there are some campaigns and policies to be reviewed by the R.S.P.C.A with the regards to keeping reptiles as pets.
I am a resident of Clacton On Sea and thought that I would write to you with with regard to this matter. I have been keeping reptiles for over 20 years now and at one stage also owned a reptile shop along with my wife in St Osyth Road, Clacton On Sea. I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about many species of reptile and feel that myself and fellow herpers around the U.K are being used a scapegoat for the lack of knowledge that the R.S.P.C.A shows.
In the current RSPCA policy document, Policies on animal welfare (revised 2003) it is stated that: - 
"Exotic animals such as snakes, lizards and terrapins often carry disease, are difficult to look after and are rarely provided with adequate facilities. Such animals are unsuitable as companion animals"
Now I am uncertain as to the knowledge that you have personally of keeping reptiles and I will write this with regards to someone knowing very little about them if I may.

Reptiles carry diseases: - Yes many reptiles do carry diseases but it is also very easy to eliminate the chances of contracting these diseases if the person who handles the reptile takes care in following general hygiene rules i.e.: - That they wash their hands after handling or simply keeping a bottle of disinfectant or alcohol scrub on hand for use afterwards. Reptiles have also been proven to carry fewer diseases than the average household pet.

Reptiles are difficult to look after and are rarely provided with adequate facilities: -Reptiles are not difficult to keep in fact as long as the potential keeper has researched the animal properly they can be kept more effitiantly than many other pets within the U.K. The hardest part of keeping a reptile is buying all the equipment that is needed for them in the first place i.e.: - vivarium, heat source and thermostat, lighting, water bowls and substrate. As long as the golden rules of keeping these animals are followed then you will have very few problems with keeping a reptile.

Such animals are unsuitable as companion animals: - Reptiles are very suitable animals to have as a companion animal. They do not need to be taken out for walks or have the use of a garden as they have there very own miniature environment at all times within their housing so they can be kept by people that live in houses or flats.This also means that these animals are less likely to attack other people like a cat or dag can as they are not taken out in public or allowed to run around unattended.

I have heard it said that the whole reason for reviewing these policies is that reptiles are very diverse in the keeping and husbandry requirements that the R.S.P.C.A could not train all of its inspectors with every aspect of the keeping of these wonderful animals. My thoughts on this are that if the inspectors where to receive basic training for the main species that are kept here within the U.K i.e:- Corn Snakes, Royal Pythons, Bearded Dragons, Leopard Geckos etc then it would at least go part of the way to solve some of the problems that we of the herp world are experiencing. When I did own the shop I was in regular contact with our local R.S.P.C.A inspector and would often go out to identify species of reptiles for him or help to re-home them.If I can work along side an inspector in this way why cant it happen more often and on a wider scale?

Whilst we are on the subject of reptiles I currently keep Burmese Pythons and Boa Constrictors along with Tarantulas and my wife keeps a group of scorpians and I have heard through Chris Newman at FOCAS (Federation Of Companion Animal Societies) that there is also talk of a review of the D.W.A. (Dangerous Wild Animals) list. In this review it is to be considered that any large species of snake (9 feet in length and over) should be included. I think this would be a very bad idea due to the fact that if these species of snake were to be put on the list then anyone already keeping them would “legally” without any restrictions be able to purchase venomous animals or worse still animals like a lion or tiger cub or Crocodilians etc because they would then have to be issued with a Dangerous Wild Animals licence. Along with this downfall some councils do not like to issue the D.W.A licence or charge extortionist prices for it. The D.W.A price varies from council to council and I have heard of prices ranging from £80 up to £600 in some areas.I personally(as one of many) really do not want to risk having dangerous animals amongst us just for the sake of putting large constrictors in the same catagory with the venomous animals etc?

Now my largest concern over all this is what is to happen to our animals should the R.S.P.C.A be allowed to ban people from keeping them. Who would be expected to pay for the final outcome of our pets as they would most likely be humanely euthanised and to ask someone to pay for this after keeping their pet healthily and happy for any period of time in my opinion would be a very uncaring thing to espetially considering that we are supposed to be an animal loving nation. Therefore the costs would come down to the governmant which would then in turn put the final cost with the taxpayers. Would they then be happy to foot the bill? 
Along with this what would then happen to all the people that work in the reptile industry whether they are shop workers or qualified reptile vets. There are many reptile specialist shops within the U.K and also people who work at building vivariums, importers and distributors that would then be left unemployed because of these actions.I think it is very unfair to put forward these proposals persecuting reptile keepers for for the lack of knowledge and understanding of the care these animals needed by a large organisation such as the R.S.P.C.A

Is it not time for these bodies to consult with us the keepers about what is best for our hobby rather than have it dictated to us by people with less knowledge than ourselves.We spend a lot of our time trying to learn more and also teach others through the internet forums and chatting to the general public and would ask to at least be acknowledged for all the hard work we put into our pets.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing your opinion on this very important matter. 

Yours faithfully


----------



## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

> What I want to know is do people think all this is going a bit over the top?


Most definately not. I love the idea of writing to MPs...I'm thinking I'm going to do that myself.

I really think that we need to stand up for ourselves. While I don't think there'll be an outright ban anytime soon, I think what'll happen is the list of what can be kept will be chipped away at, that the 'requirements' needed for keeping reptiles will become impossible to meet and that it'll be harder and harder to find anywhere that is licensed to sell them...


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

definately is a good idea I recon, thats a good letter Greenphase.

Come on people we need your letters for the 1000's of people on here only a handful have signed in to say they have sent a letter, I know its early days still.:smile:


----------



## Guest (Apr 27, 2007)

check here:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-sites/30682-save-our-reptiles-site.html


----------



## Guest (May 9, 2007)

Save Our Reptiles

new site x


----------

