# Can a black syrian hamster carry torti? Confused!!



## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Well, as some might know, I bred my Black LH male to my Black LH female. Was expecting black babies really, & was quite happy with that! She produced a Handsome Yellow/Black, A Gorgeous Torti & 2 *adorable* blacks :flrt:
Still didn't know which parent carried the torti gene, but another litter leads me to believe that it is the male!
I bred the same Black LH male to my BEC LH female, & she had a litter of 12 on the 30th September. It was a bit of a weird decision to make, putting them together, but I was looking for some very big longhair babies, and this was the only way I could do it at the time :blush: I've been lucky enough to have had a quick look at the babies as she had them in a nest box with a hinged lid, meaning I can look without putting my scent on anything, and she doesn't notice a thing  I've seen at least 3 BEC babies, some Blacks with white bellies (Strange...Not sure what they are!!) and some black with light spotting & markings coming through...They look just like the torti baby I have now when she was that age. :flrt: So...Basically, I'm wondering if a Black hamster can carry Tort? 
*Pictures Below*

Also...I've got a litter of 4 at the moment. All eating & growing now, nearly 3 weeks old. When is the best age to separate into male/female groups? My last litter of 10 went into 2 groups at 4.5 weeks, and into groups of 3 & 2 at 5.5 weeks. All went to new homes at 6 weeks. Mummy hammie is getting a bit annoyed with them now tbh...So not sure what to do :blush:

Thanks for all advice...Pics of both litters now!:flrt:

Older Litter - 3 Weeks tomorrow (Wednesday 7th)



























Younger Litter - Week Old Tomorrow (Wednesday 7th)




























Sorry about the long post :blush: 

Thanks in advance: victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Your BEC could be a yellow????

As far as I know tort isnt' 'carried'.

I've never had torts form anything other than, either, tort mothers or yellow parent to 'any other colour' parent.

Has wither black got white on them?
If so they could possibly be badly marked dominant spot and you have a DS in the litter.
It's very difficult to tell at that age.......or at least it is for me.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Just to say I seperate the boys at 4 weeks but I have been known to leave a small litter of does with Mum until around 6-7 weeks or older sometimes.

I'm lucky I think in that my does don't get p'd off with the young'uns until much later on.

I currenlty have a cage, a savic cambridge, with 11 baby boys in form three different litters and a cage, gabber rex, with 10 baby girls in it from the same litters getting on famously.

Just had alitter born today from my tort and white to my yellow boy so expecting tort and yellow girls and yellow and black boys...unless I'm pleasantly surprised of course.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

Lovely babies.

To answer your question, no, tort cannot be carried in any case. 

The "yellow" gene, also responsible for making tort, is a dominant gene (along with being sex-linked, but you probably knew that). The only possible explanation for your litter, is that one of the "black" parents, was actually tort but doesn't look it - i.e. is mainly black with only tiny patches of other colour that you cannot make out.

The combinations Saxon mentioned are the only possible ways to get tort babies.

Hope that helps...


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Looking at the week old though 'it' could be a heavily marked DS as well from the markings.

I'd give it another week to be sure it was a tort.

mattm,

I'd put money on the 'BEC' being a yellow though in this combination.
I made that mistake when I started with torts.
I got my first torts by mating a 'cream' to a golden, the 'cream' turned out to be 'yellow'.


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Um.

Either as Saxon says your Cream could be a 'ghost yellow' - Cream carrying Yellow.

(Yellow 'makes' Torts. so one parent must have the Yellow gene) 

OR your Black male could possibly be Yellow-Black? don't look it but still.

If you had a female/male with a known background (no Yellow/tort etc) then you could maybe narrow it down a bit.

Could well be guessing forever !! :lol2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

There's a great difference between black and yellow/black.
I would think it's impossible to mistake the two, definitely a lot easier to mistake cream for either ghost yellow or yellow.

My yellow/blacks are like yellows with an 'overlay' of black ticks.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Really dont think the BEC is a yellow :blush: But then, I'm no expert! :lol2:

Heres another pic of Bambi, the mother :flrt:










Thanks: victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I've never seen a 'ghost yellow' in the fur, or a picture to be honest, but there has to be an explanation if thereis a tort in the litter.

Unless, as I suggested, the male is indeed a badly marked Ds and the baby is DS also.
We'll have to wait and see what he/she looks like in a week or so.
Of course if it turns out to be a buck it can't be tort!!!!!


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

The cream could be mistaken for a ghost yellow as others have said, and then that would explain it.

I don't think I read the original post properly! I was referring to the first mating of Black X Black when I said one must be tort to produce tort babies - I suppose you *could* mistake a yellow-black for black if there is very little yellow in the phenotype, but very unlikely.

I have seen many "blacks" with only tiny patches of colour that make them torts. Hence why it could easily be overlooked.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I have a number of yellow/blacks and I couldn't mistake them at all.
I would think you could see the yellow in the undercoat.

I reckon, with this mating, the 'cream' is in fact a ghost yellow as the male is the black so no chance of him being tort!


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks for all responses. Will get a proper pic of the male asap. He is a ''fading'' black though, plus being a LH too, he doesn't look ''black'' but cannot be anything else 

Had another mouse litter born today. Male is a Blue, Female is a Semi LH Coffee! Going to be very interesting babies  Excited now  Lol....


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Moonshine said:


> Thanks for all responses. Will get a proper pic of the male asap. He is a ''fading'' black though, plus being a LH too, he doesn't look ''black'' but cannot be anything else
> 
> Had another mouse litter born today. Male is a Blue, Female is a Semi LH Coffee! Going to be very interesting babies  Excited now  Lol....


I had a litter of mousies born today today as well........mother, either, the blue or white...father a blue burmese.

I also had a litter of rats born this evening.....mother russian blue agouti satin rex dumbo...father agouti variegated top eared carrying blues and dumbo. Expecting agouti's in top and dumbo to be honest but there could 'at a push' be some blues as the doe also varries british blue.

Mated a BEC syrian doe to my lh cinnamon buck and a yellow banded sh doe to my yellow sh buck 'yuseless'.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Wow...Busy day:lol2:

My Tort had her litter this morning :flrt: Well actually, she's having her litter this morning! Cant wait to see what the babies look like. ''Nasrin'' the mother, came to me as a 6 week old a few months ago. At the time, I wasn't in a position to breed so I had to sell her on again. Went looking for torts a few weeks ago & found the exact same hamster waiting for me  She still has her fiery temperament though :lol2:

Thanks!
:2thumb:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

My umbrous tort and white had her litter the other day...I'm quite excited as to what will be in her litter.

I'm hoping for torts, obviously get those, some yellows and yellow/blacks.
I would really like a black doe and as the buck carries black I may well get one!


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Ohhhhh! Sounds like a lovely litter:flrt:

*Think* I saw 13 heads when she was eating earlier :gasp: Need to buy some new cages as I know I'll be keeping a good few from this litter, and the other litter of 12 :lol2: :flrt:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm keeping 6 does and 1 buck from the litters of hamsters I have that are 4 weeks now.

Does...

1 dove dominant spot LH
1 black dominant spot LH
1 dove LH
1 umbrous golden satin LH
1 dove tort and white SH
1 black tort LH

And a lovely dove satin LH buck.

I keep all torts at the moment.


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