# A new venture-B.O.P



## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

Decided I'm going to try something completley different.
A pair of Barn Owls OR another pair of smaller Owl. No interest in vultures/falcons etc... right now, but if these go well, i may well add a new enclosure to the garden.
I have 10ftx6ftx8ft (6ft high)
Would this suffice? if not, i can go either higher or 10ft wide as well as long.
I've kept nothing but reptiles,fish and the odd rodent, so have no experience in Birds.
Any advice is greatly received, one thing i didnt expect, the weights that these birds fly at, shocked me to say the least :2thumb:
I aim to get the birds around christmas time, and spend these 7/8 months sorting their enclosure and doing some intense research.
Is there any special equipment i need in the cage/flight besides the obvious which is a branch or two, and large bird boxes or similar? heating im guessing is kept the same as the surrounding environment.
Full mesh? or part plexiglass or bark for a bit of insulation?
Do the birds need somewhere to stay during winter or will they natrually burmnate/hibernate to conserve heat?
Bombardment of question i know, sorry.
John


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

:lol2:I know nothing about BOP but I do know they dont hibernate:whistling2:


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## paul 61 (Oct 3, 2009)

*barn owls*

If you are wanting to fly Barn owls free, it would not be my first bird of choice, because as you mentioned they are very light birds and to fly them free you have to cut there weight to get them obediant, as they are small birds the margin of error is very small. A buzzard or harris hawk would make a better beginers bird. If you want to keep it just in an avairy you will be OK with barn owls


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

can a Barn Owl live just as happily in an aviary all its life though? wouldn't really like that.
Harris Hawk, hmm. they do look very nice, and a decent size.
What about Eagle Owl?


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> :lol2:I know nothing about BOP but I do know they dont hibernate:whistling2:


You must know more then me then :notworthy:
To be honest i know a few bits and peices, as my Dad used to be big into them and has told me many a story about his Euro Eagle Owl. :mf_dribble:


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

love for lizards keeps B.O.P I think that's the right name? ask her.


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## paul 61 (Oct 3, 2009)

*owls*

The European eagle owl is probably too big, largest owl in the world. Yeh barn owls will be fine in an avairy, to fly them free requires a lot of experiance


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

Would size make it easier to maintain the flying weight though?
Barn owls do sound awesome, if i were to keep them in an aviary, am i limited to a pair? or could i expand the size aswell as the group numbers?


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I seriously think you are going about this backwards. 

A bird of prey is not really a pet, it is a companion to work with. Even with intense research you would not be able to meet its needs without have practical experience, you need to go and learn how to do the job they are for (at least a Bird of prey course, though most would look down on that, better to have a mentor and really learn what you are doing) to see if you enjoy the sport and then get one in the future, rather than get one like you were getting some pet, or it will be the bird that suffers.

Maybe you can start by researching Bird of prey flying courses or even better a local falconery club and then take it from there.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

It would not be a pet in any sort. more something i could work on for experience for larger B.O.P. My dad has kept BOP before and would keep things in check for the birds sake.


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## paul 61 (Oct 3, 2009)

*owl*

Yeh the size of a europeon eagle owl will make weight managment alot easier, try looking at a Bengall eagle owl bigger than barn owls but smaller than the Europeon


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I understand what you mean, but No, the larger birds will cope better with your mistakes, then with experience you could more to the smaller birds, such as the native owls, kestrels etc.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

Now that i think about it, it does make sense to start with something abit larger,maybe an bengal Eagle Owl or Harris Hawk. i liked the look of Sparrow hawks, but I'm told they "drop like flies" and are susepticle to illness


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

I think this is the first thread I have seen on here in months that has made me generally wince whilst reading it! :blush:



The T Lord said:


> Decided I'm going to try something completley different.
> A pair of Barn Owls OR another pair of smaller Owl.


Baaaaad idea. 
Birds of prey aren't some just to try. They require a LOT of hard work, time, patience and experience, they can't just be ignored for a couple of days, throwing in food when you remember etc. We said goodbye to holidays (Even overnight stays) years ago due to the birds!
And as already said, you shouldn't start with a small bird of prey. At all.




> I have 10ftx6ftx8ft (6ft high)
> Would this suffice? if not, i can go either higher or 10ft wide as well as long.


Yes, it would *suffice*, but wouldn't do them well, especially if they were to be aviary birds and not used for flying or displays, etc.



> I've kept nothing but reptiles,fish and the odd rodent, so have no experience in Birds.


You will *need* hands-on experience before getting any bird of prey. 



> I aim to get the birds around christmas time, and spend these 7/8 months sorting their enclosure and doing some intense research.


:gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp: I'm sorry, but I don't think you have thought this through properly at all! Birds of prey aren't like Dogs, 7/8 months is no where near long enough before getting them. Besides which, if you want birds that you can actually handle you will need to get imprint birds of around 8-10 weeks old, which you won't be able to get until Spring/Summer time.



> Is there any special equipment i need in the cage/flight besides the obvious which is a branch or two, and large bird boxes or similar?


Haha, you make it sound so easy!! There is very specific requirements to housing, more than just size. Then there is the perches which have to be the correct texture, type, width and so on to avoid foot problems. A well ventilated but insulated nest boxes, depending on if you plan to breed, move during the winter and so on. Materials need to be thought out very carefully so as not to cause feather or foot damage, you need to make sure you are also very careful with water placement, food draws etc. 



> heating im guessing is kept the same as the surrounding environment.


There is no room for 'guessing' with birds of prey - much less Barn Owls. You should have some form of heating available, but you don't need to use it at all times. This too needs to be thought out very carefully.



> Full mesh? or part plexiglass or bark for a bit of insulation?


Again, materials need to be thought out carefully. It depends on how and how long for the owls will be kept housed in the aviary, how the garden is set out and so on. FYI, you shouldn't use bark and the like in bird of prey aviaries, as it can be a major cause of Aspergillosis. 



> Do the birds need somewhere to stay during winter or will they natrually burmnate/hibernate to conserve heat?


As Shell195 said, Owls do _not_ hibernate. [/QUOTE]



paul 61 said:


> If you are wanting to fly Barn owls free, it would not be my first bird of choice, because as you mentioned they are very light birds and to fly them free you have to cut there weight to get them obediant, as they are small birds the margin of error is very small. A buzzard or harris hawk would make a better beginers bird. If you want to keep it just in an avairy you will be OK with barn owls


This, except I disagree with the weight part. You shouldn't need to cut a Barn Owls weight by much to get it to fly, not a properly imprinted one anyway. The keyword here being 'properly'. 



exoticsadmirer said:


> love for lizards keeps B.O.P I think that's the right name? ask her.


Ta muchly :2thumb:



Kare said:


> I seriously think you are going about this backwards.
> 
> A bird of prey is not really a pet, it is a companion to work with. Even with intense research you would not be able to meet its needs without have practical experience, you need to go and learn how to do the job they are for (at least a Bird of prey course, though most would look down on that, better to have a mentor and really learn what you are doing) to see if you enjoy the sport and then get one in the future, rather than get one like you were getting some pet, or it will be the bird that suffers.
> Maybe you can start by researching Bird of prey flying courses or even better a local falconery club and then take it from there.


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

I've just thought, the British Falconry and Raptor Fair is next weekend (Sunday 2nd and Monday 3rd), if you aren't too far away why not drop by and have a look around and pick up a few good books? There will be plenty of budding Falconers there, displays (by one of the 'highest' Owls keepers in the UK - Jemima Parry-Jones), awesome book stalls with hundreds of Falconry; game; bird of prey and Owl books for good prices, falconry stalls and so on. It is well worth going to especially for somebody new to birds of prey! Falconry Fair - British Falconry & Raptor Fair - Chetwynd Park, Newport, Shropshire, England - The World's Premier Event for Falconers


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## alan.mn (Apr 5, 2010)

A sparrowhawk is definately not a beginers bird. A bengal is probably your best bet. Check if there's an avian vet nearby, a food supplier, flying ground, an experienced falconer. Read as much as you can, then ask yourself if youve got time and money. If the answers yes, then get all thats required before you get the bird. Its a full time commitment, every day. Good luck.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> I've just thought, the British Falconry and Raptor Fair is next weekend (Sunday 2nd and Monday 3rd), if you aren't too far away why not drop by and have a look around and pick up a few good books? There will be plenty of budding Falconers there, displays (by one of the 'highest' Owls keepers in the UK - Jemima Parry-Jones), awesome book stalls with hundreds of Falconry; game; bird of prey and Owl books for good prices, falconry stalls and so on. It is well worth going to especially for somebody new to birds of prey! Falconry Fair - British Falconry & Raptor Fair - Chetwynd Park, Newport, Shropshire, England - The World's Premier Event for Falconers


I will try my best to get their, both days. as im not too far away.
Thanks for the heads up


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

*I think this is the first thread I have seen on here in months that has made me generally wince whilst reading it! :blush:*
Sorry about that, not intended :blush:

*Baaaaad idea. 
Birds of prey aren't some just to try. They require a LOT of hard work, time, patience and experience, they can't just be ignored for a couple of days, throwing in food when you remember etc. We said goodbye to holidays (Even overnight stays) years ago due to the birds!
And as already said, you shouldn't start with a small bird of prey. At all.
*In try i meant keep instead adore : victory:
I understand the hard work,patience required and have considered this whilst thinking about keeping them/her
Yes i have also realised that i should not start with a smaller BOP.


*

Yes, it would *suffice*, but wouldn't do them well, especially if they were to be aviary birds and not used for flying or displays, etc.* After reading this i have decided against an Owl for some time i feel.
* You will * *need hands-on experience before getting any bird of prey. 
*I do plan on getting alot of hands on experience before i get the Bird, whatever it may be.

*

:gasp:* *:gasp::gasp::gasp: I'm sorry, but I don't think you have thought this through properly at all! Birds of prey aren't like Dogs, 7/8 months is no where near long enough before getting them. Besides which, if you want birds that you can actually handle you will need to get imprint birds of around 8-10 weeks old, which you won't be able to get until Spring/Summer time.
*Does waiting till next August make more sense? this would enable me to build a larger Aviary for the bird.
*
Haha, you make it sound so easy!! There is very specific requirements to housing, more than just size. Then there is the perches which have to be the correct texture, type, width and so on to avoid foot problems. A well ventilated but insulated nest boxes, depending on if you plan to breed, move during the winter and so on. Materials need to be thought out very carefully so as not to cause feather or foot damage, you need to make sure you are also very careful with water placement, food draws etc. * I know there are very specific requirement, i worded it a bit badly on my post, i meant more as in winter time requirements, do i need to change things alot during winter?
* There is no room for 'guessing' with birds of prey - much less Barn Owls. You should have some form of heating available, but you don't need to use it at all times. This too needs to be thought out very carefully.* OK, that was my main worry, Heating requirements.

*

Again, materials need to be thought out carefully. It depends on how and how long for the owls will be kept housed in the aviary, how the garden is set out and so on. FYI, you shouldn't use bark and the like in bird of prey aviaries, as it can be a major cause of Aspergillosis. * Bark will definately not be used in that case. The birds would be flown daily once trained well enough, and before that i will train daily inside the Aviary, increasing flight distance slightly over a series of months.
* As Shell195 said, Owls do * *not hibernate. 
*OK, that was generally something i did not know about BOP
*
This, except I disagree with the weight part. You shouldn't need to cut a Barn Owls weight by much to get it to fly, not a properly imprinted one anyway. The keyword here being 'properly'. * Could you expand on this please?
*

Ta muchly * *:2thumb:


:notworthy:* *:notworthy::notworthy:

* 
Thanks alot for the reply, it has made me think a lot: victory:


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

alan.mn said:


> A sparrowhawk is definately not a beginers bird. A bengal is probably your best bet. Check if there's an avian vet nearby, a food supplier, flying ground, an experienced falconer. Read as much as you can, then ask yourself if youve got time and money. If the answers yes, then get all thats required before you get the bird. Its a full time commitment, every day. Good luck.


There is an Avian vet within 5 miles from me, St Georges in Wolverhampton.
I have asked, and succesfully gained permission to fly on an 11 Acre block of land.
My Dad is a very experienced Falconer who has many years experience with Owls, Buzzards, Kestrels, and several others, aswell as flying several eagles.He is also freinds with several other current Falconers, one of which has several larger Falcon.
Mail order would be used for food, and their are several local reptile shops with Chicks,Rats,Mouse so i am more then prepared in these areas


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

most of what my advice would be has already been said, but i will add this: if your serious look into the LANTRA beginning falconry award. it gives a good grounding for looking after a BOP :no1:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Sorry in advance for any spelling mistakes, having to type this up on my iPod as my laptop charger has broke.

In my opinion, august is still early to be thinkng about getting a bop and again you will not usually be able to get a suitably aged bird at that time of the year especially if you get an owl, if you plan on imprinting it yourself that is. Personally I recommend spendng at least two seasons with a well seasoned falconer before getting a bop of your own.
You wont need to change much durng the winter except for calorie; fat and protein portions in food and possibly extra protection on the aviary depending on how you make it in the first place. As for training in the aviary, all I will advise is....don't. Lol

what exactly would you like me to expand on, on the last bit?


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

If I was you I would spend maybe a week or more with someone who does own bop so you have an idea of the care they need day to day. 

I wouldnt recomment an eagle owl. I have spent time training one and if you dont see them everyday they forget everything you have taught them! 

Doing the LANTRA award would be a good place to start as well as you would learn the basics. 

By having a imprinted bird means raising it from more or less hatching. Someone I used to go to college with has an imprinted barn owl and it hates being away from him but will fly everywhere with no problem.

I love birds of prey but I would never get one without proper training from someone who has kept them for years.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> Sorry in advance for any spelling mistakes, having to type this up on my iPod as my laptop charger has broke.
> 
> In my opinion, august is still early to be thinkng about getting a bop and again you will not usually be able to get a suitably aged bird at that time of the year especially if you get an owl, if you plan on imprinting it yourself that is. Personally I recommend spendng at least two seasons with a well seasoned falconer before getting a bop of your own.
> You wont need to change much durng the winter except for calorie; fat and protein portions in food and possibly extra protection on the aviary depending on how you make it in the first place. As for training in the aviary, all I will advise is....don't. Lol
> ...


Thanks for the reply.
The word Imprinted, i wasn't 100% on it, but thanks to the poster below.
THanks for all help so far, really appreaciate it


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

What I was going to say has been said already by Meg (Love4Lizards). :2thumb:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

I think what was said re eagle owls was a very bold statement to make about such birds. Various eagle owls are perfect birds for somebody who doesn't want to hunt. They can be stubborn at times but in general make fantastic flying/display birds to both seasoned and novice bird of prey keepers for up to thirty odd years. Once manned and trained properly they form a bomb proof bond with their handler and are happy to fly for other people should the need arise. Bengals and Turkmenians in particular. 
And keep in mind that a good breeder will not give out their chicks until at least three weeks old, especially to a novice, unless in exceptional circumstances. In any case a well experienced owl keeper (and obviously experienced in imprinting) must be on hand 24/7. 

And whilst I agree with both miss_ferret and fallenangel regarding the LANTRA, IMO it shouldn't be used as a learning curve and the course mentor must be chosen extremely carefully. I could go out and get the mentor award tomorrow if I wanted to (and that's not me being arrogant) but that in no way qualifies me to mentor others, despite having the award as it is just too easy to get and the course mentors don't even have to be experienced with birds of prey. An intense training five-day course at a reputable falconry & bird of prey centre is the way forward for something like that. A lot of Falconers and Bird of Prey keepers refuse the chance to get the award as they don't even want to be associated with the LANTRA award.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes, doing a course at a reputable centre is a must IMO


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## *burnleygirl* (Jun 26, 2008)

Loveforlizards - 

What do mean by the mentors award? Do you mean the Lantra Assessors Award? If so do you even know what experience is required to be accepted onto the assessors course? Are you a qualified vet or veterinary nurse? or do you have a zoo license or can you prove that you have extensive advanced falconry knowledge? but seeing as how you could go out and get one tommorrow then you must have!

What time of year would you recommend someone got their first bird if August is too early? bearing in mind most BOP are ready to leave their parents by the end of July, and these are the fully parent reared ones!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes I did, and no I don't. But my mentor and his father both have the assessors award with hardly anything you listed. 

I didn't mean August being too early in the year, I meant too early at all. It depends on the species for me, I usually recommend Broadwings are bought as late into the year as possible due to the hunting season. Apart from Common Buzzards for obvious reasons.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Lol after the whole incident in the invert section u mean.

Honestly i dont think u could be trusted with any animal. After all the people you ripped off. Good to see u have found another section to haunt.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Lol after the whole incident in the invert section u mean.
> 
> Honestly i dont think u could be trusted with any animal. After all the people you ripped off. Good to see u have found another section to haunt.


:notworthy: Agreed!

I used to work in a BOP section of a zoo, and to be fair you proved you cant care for tarantulas so there is no way you can care for a BOP as the time and dedication it takes is on a completely different level.

Your feedback currently sits at 50% why you have not been banned yet is beyond me :whistling2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

selina20 said:


> Lol after the whole incident in the invert section u mean.
> 
> Honestly i dont think u could be trusted with any animal. After all the people you ripped off. Good to see u have found another section to haunt.


Who ripped people off?
The OP?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

bobby said:


> Who ripped people off?
> The OP?


Yup read back in invert section


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

selina20 said:


> Yup read back in invert section


Cheers : victory:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

selina20 said:


> Yup read back in invert section


I can't find anything, think its been deleted?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

bobby said:


> I can't find anything, think its been deleted?


Duno its not just on this forum either. Arachnophiles too.

He was banned from the forum for a while due to his outbursts.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

selina20 said:


> Duno its not just on this forum either. Arachnophiles too.
> 
> He was banned from the forum for a while due to his outbursts.


I have only ever spoke to him once, found his posts quire racist TBH but that's just my (and a few others) opinion....


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

In my opinion, august is still early to be thinkng about getting a bop and again you will not usually be able to get a suitably aged bird at that time of the year especially if you get an owl, if you plan on imprinting it yourself that is.

Actually Love for Lizards, you did say that August was too early to get a suitably aged bird at that time of year as the above quote shows.
To become a Lantra Assessor you must have at least a level 2 qualification in animal Management, or be a vet nurse or vet or be able to prove advanced knowledge of training a wide variety of different kinds of birds of prey, so for your mentor to be an assessor he/she must have at least one of these, and you saying they haven't is probably an insult to them.

On a seperate note;
As far as Lantra is concerned there is no 'course' just an award, 'The Beginning Falconry Award' you can learn whatever way is best for the individual be it a Falconry course or from books or more experienced falconers. The Lantra Award is the only nationally recognised falconry qualification and as such any one professing to care about our sport and the welfare of birds of prey should get behind it and promote it at any given oppertunity, unfortunately some 'falconers' think they are above this and as such do what they can to do it down. The Lantra award should be the minimum qualification held by anyone even thinking of owning a bird of prey, if everyone wanting a hawk or owl or falcon were to attempt the Lantra workbook they would soon see the amount of hard work required to keep and fly a Bird of Prey PROPERLY. 

If I were to come on to this forum and post '' I want a huge constrictor , I have no previous experience but I want one anyway'' most of you would (rightly) go bananas with me, or if I wanted a venomous snake I would have to obtain a DWA License again rightly, so why should anyone with no training or experience be allowed to keep a Bird of Prey,
this is where the Lantra Award comes in!
I may be coming over a bit strong but when you see the amount of maltreated hawks etc that I do, a lot of which are in such bad health when we get them that they have to be put down you would be passionate about it too.

And as you have probably guessed by now yes I am a Lantra Assessor and a PROFESSIONAL FALCONER not a hobbyist so I do know a little about what I am spouting!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> In my opinion, august is still early to be thinkng about getting a bop and again you will not usually be able to get a suitably aged bird at that time of the year especially if you get an owl, if you plan on imprinting it yourself that is.
> 
> Actually Love for Lizards, you did say that August was too early to get a suitably aged bird at that time of year as the above quote shows.
> To become a Lantra Assessor you must have at least a level 2 qualification in animal Management, or be a vet nurse or vet or be able to prove advanced knowledge of training a wide variety of different kinds of birds of prey, so for your mentor to be an assessor he/she must have at least one of these, and you saying they haven't is probably an insult to them.
> ...


This is what we are saying - no-one here is telling the OP to go out & get a raptor or owl without first getting a heck of a lot of experience, doing a course or being taught by an experienced falconer!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm just trying to understand why someone whose father "_is a very experienced Falconer who has many years experience with Owls, Buzzards, Kestrels, and several others, as well as flying several eagles. He is also freinds with several other current Falconers, one of which has several larger Falcon_" is asking people on here for such basic information about keeping BOP??

Surely, as the OP is obviously still young, his father can advise him on the size of enclosures and the right time to get his birds??


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

feorag said:


> I'm just trying to understand why someone whose father "_is a very experienced Falconer who has many years experience with Owls, Buzzards, Kestrels, and several others, as well as flying several eagles. He is also freinds with several other current Falconers, one of which has several larger Falcon_" is asking people on here for such basic information about keeping BOP??
> 
> Surely, as the OP is obviously still young, his father can advise him on the size of enclosures and the right time to get his birds??


:notworthy:


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> This is what we are saying - no-one here is telling the OP to go out & get a raptor or owl without first getting a heck of a lot of experience, doing a course or being taught by an experienced falconer!


 
My post was aimed at LfL and her comments about the Lantra Award which she clearly has little understanding of, anyone can offer an ''intensive 5 day falconry course'' with no qualifications whatsoever so how can this be the way to go over a nationally recognised qualification. Most of the falconers that dont want to be associated with the Lantra Award feel to prove their knowledge is beneath them, there are already movements to try to ban falconry as was done with fox hunting and there is also a movement to ban the keeping of reptiles as pets, surely if we are seen to be keeping our own house in order with regard to qualifications and regulations it will be harder for the ''anti's'' to take away our way of life.
Or we could bury our heads in the sand and carry on as we always have.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> My post was aimed at LfL and her comments about the Lantra Award which she clearly has little understanding of, *anyone can offer an ''intensive 5 day falconry course'' with no qualifications whatsoever so how can this be the way to go over a nationally recognised qualification.* Most of the falconers that dont want to be associated with the Lantra Award feel to prove their knowledge is beneath them, there are already movements to try to ban falconry as was done with fox hunting and there is also a movement to ban the keeping of reptiles as pets, surely if we are seen to be keeping our own house in order with regard to qualifications and regulations it will be harder for the ''anti's'' to take away our way of life.
> Or we could bury our heads in the sand and carry on as we always have.


But surely the same could be said about anything. Work experience students that I had at the pet shop I used to own told me they learned much more about animals from their time with me than they did at college! I could have a friend who could see to some plumbing work who isn't qualified, & they could do the job just as well, if not better, than a qualified plumber (merely an example).

I agree that keepers of animals that are not considered the norm (reptiles, birds of prey, primates in my instance) should be seen to be singing from the same hymm sheet, however I do not think that Meg (love4Lizards) is in any way showing disrespect to other falconers or indeed to the falconry hobby. She is a responsible keeper who is always giving great advice to others who enquire about getting into the hobby, & I trust & value her advice & experience.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Zoo-Man said:


> But surely the same could be said about anything. Work experience students that I had at the pet shop I used to own told me they learned much more about animals from their time with me than they did at college! I could have a friend who could see to some plumbing work who isn't qualified, & they could do the job just as well, if not better, than a qualified plumber (merely an example).
> 
> I agree that keepers of animals that are not considered the norm (reptiles, birds of prey, primates in my instance) should be seen to be singing from the same hymm sheet, however I do not think that Meg (love4Lizards) is in any way showing disrespect to other falconers or indeed to the falconry hobby. She is a responsible keeper who is always giving great advice to others who enquire about getting into the hobby, & I trust & value her advice & experience.


Me too, if I ever had any questions about BOP, that's who I'd go to first. 

In my experience she never sets out to offend folk!


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> But surely the same could be said about anything. Work experience students that I had at the pet shop I used to own told me they learned much more about animals from their time with me than they did at college! I could have a friend who could see to some plumbing work who isn't qualified, & they could do the job just as well, if not better, than a qualified plumber (merely an example).
> 
> I agree that keepers of animals that are not considered the norm (reptiles, birds of prey, primates in my instance) should be seen to be singing from the same hymm sheet, however I do not think that Meg (love4Lizards) is in any way showing disrespect to other falconers or indeed to the falconry hobby. She is a responsible keeper who is always giving great advice to others who enquire about getting into the hobby, & I trust & value her advice & experience.


just answer me one question,
would you trust your health to someone not qualified?
so why should you trust the health of animals.
I wont bore you with my thoughts on this subject any more as its plain to see you are going to side with your friend rather than common sense.
one last thing, how on a forum can you be sure of anyones experience level? there are a lot of people that talk the talk but cant walk the walk,


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Spadger said:


> just answer me one question,
> would you trust your health to someone not qualified?
> so why should you trust the health of animals.
> I wont bore you with my thoughts on this subject any more as its plain to see you are going to side with your friend rather than common sense.
> one last thing, how on a forum can you be sure of anyones experience level? there are *a lot of people that talk the talk* but cant walk the walk,


:whistling2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Spadger said:


> how on a forum can you be sure of anyones experience level? there are a lot of people that talk the talk but cant walk the walk,


Tend to agree.

Some people on here do come over as experts on every subject and animal that is discussed here and I do wonder how many of them simply google and repeat.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> just answer me one question,
> would you trust your health to someone not qualified?
> so why should you trust the health of animals.
> I wont bore you with my thoughts on this subject any more as its plain to see you are going to side with your friend rather than common sense.
> one last thing, how on a forum can you be sure of anyones experience level? there are a lot of people that talk the talk but cant walk the walk,


Don't spit your dummy out!


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Zoo-Man said:


> Don't spit your dummy out!


haha, that's what i thought too.....


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I must be more tolerant than you two then, cos I didn't think that.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

feorag said:


> I must be more tolerant than you two then, cos I didn't think that.


I only said dont spit your dummy out because he said I will side with Meg no matter what!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I think we lost the op on page 3 as hes not replied since then:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

feorag said:


> I must be more tolerant than you two then, cos I didn't think that.


Spadger seems to have beef with Meg for some reason. Maybe its because Meg is normally the one people on here recommend or go to for help on BOP related topics. Maybe Spadger's nose is put out of joint by having a teenage girl (no offence Meg) seen as the falconry person on this forum.


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

Everyone had their own experience

I have worked with birds of prey before but I wouldnt want anyone asking me questions about what they are like to own.
I prefer to get help from people who have the experience. So if someone keeps birds of prey I will ask them or if someone keeps frogs I will ask them for advice

I find first hand advice is normally more helpful than some stuff you find on google!

And is it more or less being said that you must have some sort of qualification to own an animal because I am glad to know I am allowed to keep mine!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

FallenAngel said:


> I find first hand advice is normally more helpful than some stuff you find on google!


That's why I said it.

Some of the advice I've seen given on here (on animals I consider myself to know a reasonable bit about, not every animal) has been questionable and I worry about newbies actually taking that advice as gospel, because the person is seen to be an expert, when in fact they aren't.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Will have a read of this and tap back when I can get on a comp and read properly, can't see anything other than last page but I can clearly imagine.


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> I only said dont spit your dummy out because he said I will side with Meg no matter what!


You have just proved my point. 
shame you cant think for yourself.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

iv only quickly skimmed through this thread (ie the posts since my post if that makes sense). i feel i have to defend the LANTRA award, i did it before getting my barn owl. having done some work with birds of prey before hand i thought i knew quite a bit about them but by doing the award the gaps in my knowledge became obvious and im very glad they did (better to find out then than when id bought a bird). i was tought by a falconer who i believe to be one of the best in england at what he does and since i finished the course he has always been helpful when iv gone to him with a problem. i am of the group of BOP keepers (i class myself as a keeper not a falconer so cant speak for them) that believe the lantra should be compulsary for *new* keepers as ultimatly we shouldnt put a birds life at risk just for the sake of pride.

this post is not an attack on anyone. i have no problem with people who know more than me about BOPs (after all im sure i know more about other things than them). but i also dont believe that the advice of one person should be followed blindly whichever side of the argument you may be on.

that was my 2p worth. carry on amongst yourselves :lol2:


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Spadger seems to have beef with Meg for some reason. Maybe its because Meg is normally the one people on here recommend or go to for help on BOP related topics. Maybe Spadger's nose is put out of joint by having a teenage girl (no offence Meg) seen as the falconry person on this forum.


 
Thats funny lol this is not even a Falconry Forum so how do you expect to get good advice about falconry?

I have no problem with LfL at all and if you notice I dont give advice over the internet about specific problems but i do have a problem with people talking about stuff they dont know about!
If anyone wants my advice they are more than welcome to come and do a course with me and attain their Lantra Award this will cost you £500 and I have never had a dissatisfied customer!!
LFL may be a perfectly good falconer I have never met her and didn't even post until she started attacking the Lantra Award, or Assessors Qualification something she said she could go out and get tomorrow, if she goes and gets the Assessors Award I will be the first on here to congratulate her, but personally I dont think it will ever happen, again just my opinion.


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

miss_ferret said:


> iv only quickly skimmed through this thread (ie the posts since my post if that makes sense). i feel i have to defend the LANTRA award, i did it before getting my barn owl. having done some work with birds of prey before hand i thought i knew quite a bit about them but by doing the award the gaps in my knowledge became obvious and im very glad they did (better to find out then than when id bought a bird). i was tought by a falconer who i believe to be one of the best in england at what he does and since i finished the course he has always been helpful when iv gone to him with a problem. i am of the group of BOP keepers (i class myself as a keeper not a falconer so cant speak for them) that believe the lantra should be compulsary for *new* keepers as ultimatly we shouldnt put a birds life at risk just for the sake of pride.
> 
> this post is not an attack on anyone. i have no problem with people who know more than me about BOPs (after all im sure i know more about other things than them). but i also dont believe that the advice of one person should be followed blindly whichever side of the argument you may be on.
> 
> that was my 2p worth. carry on amongst yourselves :lol2:


 At last an informed post. Thank you.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> You have just proved my point.
> shame you cant think for yourself.


I can't think for myself? How do you come by that?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> *Thats funny lol this is not even a Falconry Forum so how do you expect to get good advice about falconry?*
> 
> I have no problem with LfL at all and if you notice I dont give advice over the internet about specific problems but i do have a problem with people talking about stuff they dont know about!
> If anyone wants my advice they are more than welcome to come and do a course with me and attain their Lantra Award this will cost you £500 and I have never had a dissatisfied customer!!
> LFL may be a perfectly good falconer I have never met her and didn't even post until she started attacking the Lantra Award, or Assessors Qualification something she said she could go out and get tomorrow, if she goes and gets the Assessors Award I will be the first on here to congratulate her, but personally I dont think it will ever happen, again just my opinion.


Erm, because there is at least one member who is experienced in responsible falconry, who has a good reputation on here, & who has proven to be a font of knowledge maybe?!?


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

the biggest issue with the lantra award is it only teaches to fly a BOP upto creance stage. (unless its changed since i did mine a few years back). I would argue its an award for 'keeping' bop's not falconry. Then again it depends who is teaching and where you do the course, unfortunately its been jumped on by some unscrupulous centres as a way of making money. I agree with earlier posts if his dad is such an experienced 'falconer' why ask for advice on here?!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

BISH9098 said:


> the biggest issue with the lantra award is it only teaches to fly a BOP upto creance stage. (unless its changed since i did mine a few years back). I would argue its an award for 'keeping' bop's not falconry. Then again it depends who is teaching and where you do the course, *unfortunately its been jumped on by some unscrupulous centres as a way of making money*. I agree with earlier posts if his dad is such an experienced 'falconer' why ask for advice on here?!


At £500 a pop (as stated by Spadger, above), I would rather be mentored by an experienced falconer, even if it took longer for me to gain the necessary knowledge & experience.


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

most falconers agree that the way ahead is to run apprenticeship schemes along the same lines as in USA, Canada and South Africa. The lantra award is good in the sense that its showing that we're trying to get our house in order. However it is a BASIC award and a week long course is absolutely no way long enough to learn whats needed. Thats my humble opinion anyway!


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> At £500 a pop (as stated by Spadger, above), I would rather be mentored by an experienced falconer, even if it took longer for me to gain the necessary knowledge & experience.


 
If you cant afford or are unwillingy to pay £500 to learn about falconry then you really cant afford to take it up. Im not being clever but the cost of the course and the bird is only the start of it by the time you have paid for all the equipment built a mews and bought the telemetry and freezer and fridge and food,the £500 for a course and £500 for a bird (as an average) becomes a small part of it.


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

BISH9098 said:


> the biggest issue with the lantra award is it only teaches to fly a BOP upto creance stage. (unless its changed since i did mine a few years back). I would argue its an award for 'keeping' bop's not falconry. Then again it depends who is teaching and where you do the course, unfortunately its been jumped on by some unscrupulous centres as a way of making money. I agree with earlier posts if his dad is such an experienced 'falconer' why ask for advice on here?!


The ''Beginning falconry award'' is just that a, beginning the higher levels are coming but if people dont back the level 1 award then how can they expect Lantra or anyone else for that matter to put money into forming higher level courses? 
As far as unscrupulous centres making money what do you mean by that?
You dont have to do a course with the centre just the assessment, which most people charge around £75 for and takes around half a day if the candidate has everything prepared so when you take out the certification fee paid to Lantra its not a money making scheme at all, but there are always people who want everything for nothing (not aimed at anyone in particular)


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Erm, because there is at least one member who is experienced in responsible falconry, who has a good reputation on here, & who has proven to be a font of knowledge maybe?!?


 
Yeah cos the first place you would look for advice on birds of prey would be a reptile forum !!! I have just rang the AA and asked about a monitor lizard cos I heard one of their patrols has a man who keeps one


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Spadger said:


> Yeah cos the first place you would look for advice on birds of prey would be a reptile forum !!! I have just rang the AA and asked about a monitor lizard cos I heard one of their patrols has a man who keeps one


Patronising little :censor:.....


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

So I'm patronising and zoo mans comments werent..........double standards i think


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Spadger said:


> Yeah cos the first place you would look for advice on birds of prey would be a reptile forum !!! I have just rang the AA and asked about a monitor lizard cos I heard one of their patrols has a man who keeps one





bobby said:


> Patronising little :censor:.....


I thought it was quite funny!

I believe if someone is passionate about what they do and they do it right, then they have a right to express their opinions.

The problem on here is working out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't and I don't believe anyone is an expert on every subject, but can be an expert on one or two of them.


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

feorag said:


> I thought it was quite funny!
> 
> I believe if someone is passionate about what they do and they do it right, then they have a right to express their opinions.
> 
> The problem on here is working out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't and I don't believe anyone is an expert on every subject, but can be an expert on one or two of them.


Thank you, it was meant tongue in cheek.

I originally came on here a few months ago to learn about snakes as I have inherited a vivarium (long story) and seeing as how I already have the kind of food they eat and have had a fascination with them for years I thought it would be a good place to start.........not too sure now though
the last thing I thought I would be doing was posting on BoP issues, but with so many people getting Birds when they are totally unprepared I feel I have to. What happens is people go onto a Bird of Prey forum aand upset people or dont get the answers they want so they look for a 'softer' option and end up on unrelated forums with people who have Birds of Prey and keep moving forums until they get the answers they want. 

I will repeat I have no problem with LfL at all and have read some really good replies she has given to people, but I will stand up to anyone if I feel they are misinformed or offering a biased opinion.

As an aside a friend rang me recently and told me the vets had given him a Kestrel that had been brought in with the leather anklets SUPER GLUED to its legs as he had been told (on a forum) this was what was done, this bird was LUCKY and is now being cared for PROPERLY, if the person that bought the Kestrel had done a course, Lantra or otherwise, they would have known this was wrong (even if they had no common sense whatsoever), so if a course such as Lantra's was compulsory things like this wouldn't happen! 
More and more breeders are refusing to sell birds to people without the award, me included.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Spadger said:


> Thank you, it was meant tongue in cheek.
> 
> I originally came on here a few months ago to learn about snakes as I have inherited a vivarium (long story) and seeing as how I already have the kind of food they eat and have had a fascination with them for years I thought it would be a good place to start.........not too sure now though
> the last thing I thought I would be doing was posting on BoP issues, but with so many people getting Birds when they are totally unprepared I feel I have to. What happens is people go onto a Bird of Prey forum aand upset people or dont get the answers they want so they look for a 'softer' option and end up on unrelated forums with people who have Birds of Prey and keep moving forums until they get the answers they want.
> ...


Can only be a good thing IMHO.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Tbh I think the week long course is good, but I think it should be used just to get a good idea of what's involved with BoP, whether it really is for you, and then get yourself a mentor for however many months it takes you to become more confident. I would be worried that after doing a course someone would think they are good enough to fly/hunt BoP. 
People don't seem to realise how difficult BoP are to look after, they're not a pet.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Spadger said:


> Thank you, it was meant tongue in cheek..


Which was how I took it!

I work at a wildlife sanctuary and at the moment we have something in the region of 20-30 captive bred barn owls that people have thought would be good pets/a good hobby and got bored with them or found them not as easy to look after as they thought, so they've dumped them on us.

Obviously we can't release them and so have no choice but to keep them!

We've had idiots bringing them in to us because they don't want them any more and when my boss has asked for their CITES paperwork, their answer has been "don't have any" and when my boss has said under those circumstances we can't take the bird, they've started walking away saying that they'll just take it into the country and release it then! :gasp:

So they call my boss's bluff and he takes them and then we have the cost of chipping and getting the licences etc. That nearly got us closed down a couple of years ago and cost us a fortune!

I feel if they'd done their homework _properly_ first, we might not have them and that would be a great thing!!


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

feorag said:


> Which was how I took it!
> 
> I work at a wildlife sanctuary and at the moment we have something in the region of 20-30 captive bred barn owls that people have thought would be good pets/a good hobby and got bored with them or found them not as easy to look after as they thought, so they've dumped them on us.
> 
> ...


 
Barn Owls dont need CITIES paperwork but they do need an Article 10 from Defra, but only if they are used for commercial purposes ie breeding, display work etc but if you are a rescue centre etc you may be able to get away without them, just make sure you have written evidence about how you obtained the bird, a signed letter from the previous owner or vet should do it. Hope this helps. Its worth looking into.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Senior moment! :blush: I meant Article 10 - most of the people who bring them in haven't a clue what it is.

We have to have it because we are open to the public so many days a week. 

We had a procession of vehicles arrive one day, RSPCA vans, Natural England, you name it coming to seize our barn owls a year or so ago. Fortunately on the day they came we were not open to the public, otherwise they apparently would have seized all our owls (and no guessing what the RSPCA would have done with those!) 

They made us rope off the 2 enclosures that house our barn owls and a couple of Tawny Owls so the public couldn't reach them until every barn owl was chipped and the Article 10s paid for.

Natural England also told us (after being open to the public for 4 years and my boss asking every year "do we need any other sort of paperwork?") that we should have a Zoo Licence because we have wild animals for the public to see (at the time 5 foxes, 1 badger, 2 squirrels and odd birds in convalescence!). Cost us a fortune!!!


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

Spadger said:


> As far as unscrupulous centres making money what do you mean by that?


I mean exactly that, there are some out there saying come do my course and you will be falconer! Rubbish, at best you will be a bop keeper! Maybe the lantra system has changed since i did mine but to be an assessor then you had to demonstrate a backround knowledge of falconry. From what i can gather its taken a step backwards if your earlier post stating that a vet/ vet nurse can be an assessor. My ex mrs was a vet nurse and you could write what she knew about falconry on the back of a stamp! How ever I DO agree with you that it is at least a step in the right direction


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

feorag said:


> Senior moment! :blush: I meant Article 10 - most of the people who bring them in haven't a clue what it is.
> 
> We have to have it because we are open to the public so many days a week.
> 
> ...


 As spadger posted you can 'gift' an article 10 bird or feather of as long as its not used for comercial/financial gain. If your centre has an entrance fee to the public then that could be why DEFRA had a beef with you? I think harry bloody potter films have a lot to answer for with regards to the amount of owls in rescue centres now!


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

Spadger said:


> More and more breeders are refusing to sell birds to people without the award, me included.


thats the key i think spadger, the control needs to be started from the breeders. Trouble is theres always some back street breeder who just wants to make a quick buck, you've only got to look at the Harris situation in this country to see that. I applaud you in the standards you have reference selling birds and if only more followed in your footsteps :2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

BISH9098 said:


> As spadger posted you can 'gift' an article 10 bird or feather of as long as its not used for comercial/financial gain. If your centre has an entrance fee to the public then that could be why DEFRA had a beef with you? I think harry bloody potter films have a lot to answer for with regards to the amount of owls in rescue centres now!


It does and as I said that was the reason why they came.

My bosses started this sanctuary over 18 years ago, but had no choice but to open to the public 6 years ago because there were more animals coming in than the money to look after them. Almost all of the barn owls came in before we opened to the public.

As I said fortunately when they arrived to seize the owls we were not open to the public and so they couldn't take them.


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

feorag said:


> It does and as I said that was the reason why they came.
> 
> My bosses started this sanctuary over 18 years ago, but had no choice but to open to the public 6 years ago because there were more animals coming in than the money to look after them. Almost all of the barn owls came in before we opened to the public.
> 
> As I said fortunately when they arrived to seize the owls we were not open to the public and so they couldn't take them.


 sorry missed that post! :blush:


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

BISH9098 said:


> I mean exactly that, there are some out there saying come do my course and you will be falconer! Rubbish, at best you will be a bop keeper! Maybe the lantra system has changed since i did mine but to be an assessor then you had to demonstrate a backround knowledge of falconry. From what i can gather its taken a step backwards if your earlier post stating that a vet/ vet nurse can be an assessor. My ex mrs was a vet nurse and you could write what she knew about falconry on the back of a stamp! How ever I DO agree with you that it is at least a step in the right direction


Sorry I didn't explain it very well, I was probably ranting
The vet/vet nurse qualification is as well as an advanced knowledge, the other ways are working for a place with a zoo license that has a bird of prey collection or a level 2 qualification in animal management there are a couple of others that I cant remember at the moment (its been a hard day), again these are all as well as the knowledge part.
As far as only being a BoP keeper and not a falconer, I would expect some one aspiring to be a falconer to firstly become a proficient keeper. For any one wondering what the difference is; a 'falconer' is someone who uses a Bird of Prey to catch quarry (rabbits etc) usually for the table. As well as Hunting with Hawks I fly a Kestrel that would only hunt voles, worms and beetles( not something I fancy eating lol) and a Vulture which only eats carrion (again not something I fancy lol) as do a lot of my fellow 'falconers' ( fly vultures etc not eat carrion)
Personally I would rather see a well looked after Hawk being flown for excercise that a poorly conditioned hawk hunted


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

What kind of money is involved in keeping these birds?
I would assume you would also need to be a home owner?

Can you use owls for hunting at night?

I seen a barn owl on the way to school as a kid and no one believed me, flew very close to me, who should I have contacted? It's always bothered me, I will always wonder if it went home...


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

slight divert off topic here but Spadger you fly my two wish list birds ie a kestrel and a vulture. im never likely to have the money or space to own a vulture but im still holding out hope on the kestrel front........sigh........ stunning little birds and i will own one some day :flrt:


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

bobby said:


> What kind of money is involved in keeping these birds?
> I would assume you would also need to be a home owner?
> 
> Can you use owls for hunting at night?
> ...


In answer to your first question;

Telemetry £600.00
leashes £15.00
Swivels £20.00
Jesses etc £15.00
Coping set £20.00
Eyelet tools £25.00
Creance £15.00
Lure £15.00
Bow perch £50.00
Training perch £80.00
Hood £40.00 
Bag / hawking vest £50.00
First aid kit £25.00
Travelling box £100.00
Glove £50.00
Bells £10.00
Tail mount £5.00
Scales £25.00- £125.00
Bath £25.00
Disinfectant £50.00 (will last for ages)
This list is just off of the top of my head some of the things you could possibly make yourself and save some money or you could buy a cheap version but you get what you pay for.
Then there is the mews ( housing) anything from about £200-£2000
Freezer
fridge
food- in the moulting season especially the diet will be varied and will include quail pheasant hare duck rat mice doc rabbit partridge............
then there is insurance both medical and 3rd party
and last but not least the bird, anything from £50.00 for a Barn Owl to £20,000+ for a pure white Gyr Falcon

Then there is the need for a good dog and /or ferrets these all need feeding housing and in the case of the dog training, ( I know of people spending thousands on a trained dog)
And dont forget around £500 for a course (hopefully including the Lantra Award)
I cant see why you would need to own your own home as long as your landlord gives you permission to have one and build a mews.

Your second question I really hope is a joke lol very few owls ever make good hunters, with the exception of some European Eagle Owls.

If the Barn Owl you saw was a wild one there is no need to inform anyone just enjoy the spectacle.


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## BISH9098 (Apr 16, 2010)

Spadger said:


> In answer to your first question;
> 
> Telemetry £600.00
> leashes £15.00
> ...


 its scary when you see it in writing how much it all costs and thats a conservative approximation of costs lol ! I flew a pair of euro kes' for a few seasons and they were my favourite long wings ive flown : victory:. Hows the moult going at your end? As usual ive put mine down to moult and bugger all has been dropped so far :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> If you cant afford or are unwillingy to pay £500 to learn about falconry then you really cant afford to take it up. Im not being clever but the cost of the course and the bird is only the start of it by the time you have paid for all the equipment built a mews and bought the telemetry and freezer and fridge and food,the £500 for a course and £500 for a bird (as an average) becomes a small part of it.


I've done a course but it didn't cost me £500! I wouldn't have done it if it cost that much. If people are willing to pay that much to do a course, good for them. Personally I did a course at my local bird of prey centre, & then did work experience there for a year of my college course. I gained a lot of experience & knowledge from the centre's owners whilst doing this.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> Yeah cos the first place you would look for advice on birds of prey would be a reptile forum !!! I have just rang the AA and asked about a monitor lizard cos I heard one of their patrols has a man who keeps one


Well if you did a search for threads on here asking for advice about starting out in falconry & owning birds of prey, you will find a fair few :whistling2:


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Well if you did a search for threads on here asking for advice about starting out in falconry & owning birds of prey, you will find a fair few :whistling2:


 
What I am saying for the hard of thinking is a Reptile foum is NOT the place you would first think of to do a search for Birds of Prey


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> I've done a course but it didn't cost me £500! I wouldn't have done it if it cost that much. If people are willing to pay that much to do a course, good for them. Personally I did a course at my local bird of prey centre, & then did work experience there for a year of my college course. I gained a lot of experience & knowledge from the centre's owners whilst doing this.


I didn't say you couldn't find cheaper course, but like I said you get what you pay for! did your course give you a nationally recognised qualification?
how long ago did you do the course? I dont force anyone to do my courses. 
one more thing, I have a waiting list of over 20 people for my course so i wont miss you not doing one


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

BISH9098 said:


> its scary when you see it in writing how much it all costs and thats a conservative approximation of costs lol ! I flew a pair of euro kes' for a few seasons and they were my favourite long wings ive flown : victory:. Hows the moult going at your end? As usual ive put mine down to moult and bugger all has been dropped so far :lol2:


 Ours are doing ok in the moult for once lol
We have turned some of ours to moult in the winter as we do displays in the summer, but they still do what they want lol
Our female Kestrel dropped two deck feathers at 6months old then grew them back, a new one on me!
the gyrs are flying well although my black one decided to sit in a bloody tree last night instead of chasing the lure but he came back.
but things are going ok with us, am not looking forward to relocating some of our mews to the other end of the field next week, it seemed such a good idea when i first thought about doing it:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> What I am saying for the hard of thinking is a Reptile foum is NOT the place you would first think of to do a search for Birds of Prey


Of course it isn't the first place you'd look, but many members of this forum DO use this section as a first port of call to ask about falconry!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> I didn't say you couldn't find cheaper course, but like I said you get what you pay for! did your course give you a nationally recognised qualification?
> how long ago did you do the course? I dont force anyone to do my courses.
> one more thing, I have a waiting list of over 20 people for my course so i wont miss you not doing one


The course I did did not give me a nationally recognised qualification. It did, however, give me knowledge & experience of the hobby of falconry. I did the course about 9 years ago.


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## Spadger (Jun 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> The course I did did not give me a nationally recognised qualification. It did, however, give me knowledge & experience of the hobby of falconry. I did the course about 9 years ago.


And 9 years ago I didn't charge £500 either, falconry is not a hobby done properly it's a way of life


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Spadger said:


> And 9 years ago I didn't charge £500 either, falconry is not a hobby done properly it's a way of life


Oh ok


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