# self cleaning fish tank



## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

Hey guys I have a standed fish tank with some goldies. Can any one recommend some fish to help keep down algae, to pick up the gold fish poo and any other maintanence I need to consider.


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> Hey guys I have a standed fish tank with some goldies. Can any one recommend some fish to help keep down algae, to pick up the gold fish poo and any other maintanence I need to consider.


I used to keep four sucker loaches in my goldfish tank but they ate them after a while! I think you can get really big ones so I'd go for them. I got mine fr pets at home if that's any help.


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

Something like a pleco fish? I want to add on that eats the algae of the glass.


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> Something like a pleco fish? I want to add on that eats the algae of the glass.


That's what they do. Go in petsathome and look at them. Make sure you get bigger ones though because like I said my fish ate them.


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

Yer id have to get a big one, my goldfish have already been known for being canibals lol but what about poo eating fish?


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> Yer id have to get a big one, my goldfish have already been known for being canibals lol but what about poo eating fish?


Lol! Well mine just ate anything really, I used to put a little extra flake good in as well and they used to eat that when it went to the bottom.


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## PGTibs (Apr 26, 2013)

I wouldn't risk sucker fish with goldfish. They'll either get eaten or eat the goldfish's slime.

I'd probably stick with snails and shrimp imo.


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

will snails amd shrimp do the same job then?


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Shrimp will get eaten,plecs create more waste than they actually consume,no fish "eat poo".Goldfish are large,messy fish that require large tanks,powerful filtration and lots of water changes -CLEANING! Dont add any more fish,they wont help.


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## PGTibs (Apr 26, 2013)

Outback Breeders said:


> will snails amd shrimp do the same job then?


Yeah they will, shrimp aren't likely to get eaten it they're big enough. They're fast and given somewhere to hide should be fine. I kept shrimp with goldfish for many years and never had any problems. Snails are good at keeping it clean too.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

What size tank do you have?


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Have a sandy substrate as the poo will just sit on the top and is easily scooped out, weekly 25% water changes, magifloat, and lots or live plants will all keep algae to a minimum, also if the tank is in direct sunlight move it somewhere else as the algae will thrive off it, oh and heavy filtration preferably one with a Uv filter this should keep the algae at bay, just general maintenance mate

Oh and seeing as you have gold fish I hope you have and adequately sized tank to house them in, I hate seeing goldfish in bowls and tiny tanks, then people claiming to upgrade or saying its a grow out tank


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

I've got 3 gold fish in a 20 gallon tank (75 litres) im looking into live plants and my tanks not in direct sun light. I've got pebbles as substrate and plan to change to sand. So make it easier to syphon poo. I've heard of a worm type loach that sits in the sand and eats poo?


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> I've got 3 gold fish in a 20 gallon tank (75 litres) im looking into live plants and my tanks not in direct sun light. I've got pebbles as substrate and plan to change to sand. So make it easier to syphon poo. I've heard of a worm type loach that sits in the sand and eats poo?


No fish eats poo, there is no easy way of keeping waste down just weekly cleaning, your going to need a bigger tank for the fish I recommend a pond and buy some smaller fish  goldfish are incredibly messy and in my opinion better suited in ponds as they have the potential to reach 40cm in length


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/fish-keeping/651102-goldfish-care-sheet.html



> Considering goldfish are not designed to stay small (which is why fishbowls are considered cruel) and at full grown can be in the 8-10 up to 18-20 inches range depending on type, a general guideline for fancy fat body types should be at least 15-20 gallons for the 1st fish plus an extra 10 gallons per fish in the tank after that, and double that for common/comet/shubunkin types.


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

Well I've got a syphon for poo so a self cleaning tank isn't on the cards but I may look into shrimp and snails to keep the algae down


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> Well I've got a syphon for poo so a self cleaning tank isn't on the cards but I may look into shrimp and snails to keep the algae down


Shrimp will get eaten and snails will end up over running the tank and they are a pest to get rid of, put them in a pond and get different fish you could have a much nicer selection of fish that way


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

A ponds not an option unfortunatly id much prefer to regularly clean my tank and keep it in my living room


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> A ponds not an option unfortunatly id much prefer to regularly clean my tank and keep it in my living room


The tanks too small for those for unfortunately and they won't last long due to the mount of waste they produce,However, if fed too much, or if kept in a tank that is not sufficiently filtered or maintained, a goldfish will simply grow to the point where its tank will not support its wastes and will succumb either to poisoning as a result of waste build-up or to disease caused by poor water quality.

The minimum tank size for one single goldfish is 30gallons


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## Outback Breeders (Jul 1, 2013)

30 gallon? That seems abit extreme for one fish ill admit they produce a lot of waste but every book I've read says 1 gold fish per 2 gallons of water. I syphon the tank once a week and on a different day change the water once a week with a big clean out every 4 weeks I have a 200 litre filtration system for a 75 litre tank that takes twice as many sponges required. Which I change 1 set every 2 weeks.


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Outback Breeders said:


> 30 gallon? That seems abit extreme for one fish ill admit they produce a lot of waste but every book I've read says 1 gold fish per 2 gallons of water. I syphon the tank once a week and on a different day change the water once a week with a big clean out every 4 weeks I have a 200 litre filtration system for a 75 litre tank that takes twice as many sponges required. Which I change 1 set every 2 weeks.


It's like keeping a human in a prison cell for rest of his or her life, the fish will be stunted and die


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## PGTibs (Apr 26, 2013)

Far2lively said:


> Shrimp will get eaten and snails will end up over running the tank and they are a pest to get rid of, put them in a pond and get different fish you could have a much nicer selection of fish that way


This couldn't be more inaccurate. Shrimp are unlikely to be eaten, they're fast and normally to large. I've kept them with goldfish for years and keep them that way at work also. 

It also depends on the type of snails, red spots, zebra snails and anything other then pest snails tend to need specific requirements for breeding. They wont become a pest if you get the right type.


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Hopefully this will help people properly care for their goldfish and give them the best life possible :2thumb:



Goldfish are one of the most widely abused pets owned, due to the common misconception that they are easy to keep, grow to the size of the tank/bowl and because they are cheap to replace if they die. Infact, goldfish are a large fish, capable of reaching 20" given proper care and space,and have been known to live up to 40years, although 15-20 is much more likely. They have great personalities, and a good memory. Some have even been taught to do simple tricks for food!



Aquariums for goldfish need to be large to allow the fish to grow to the full potential its genetics will allow. Tank size is very important,it must be carefully thought out as it greatly influences the potential of the fish to reach its adult size. A stunted fish will die much earlier than a fish kept in a large tank allowing them room to grow.



Goldfish can become prone to several health issues as a result of the poor water conditions in a small tank/bowl. Unfortunately, they produce a large amount of waste especially when their metabolic rate is increased due to elevated temperature. As a result, the water quality deteriorates rather rapidly especially when the tank is less than ideal in size, even in a large tank, water changes and gravel vacs will be your best friend in keeping your fish fit and healthy.



Considering goldfish are not designed to stay small (which is why fishbowls are considered cruel) and at full grown can be in the 8-10 up to 18-20 inches range depending on type, a general guideline for fancy fat body types should be at least 15-20 gallons for the 1st fish plus an extra 10 gallons per fish in the tank after that, and double that for common/comet/shubunkin types.



This does not mean that the spare 15 gallon tank you have can be used for a goldfish, they are very social creatures and you should not keep goldfish in isolation as they are more unlikely to thrive if deprived of company. Minimum tank sizes for goldfish IMO would be 25-30 gallons for fancies, and 50 gallons for commons as you will need at least a pair. Bigger is always better, and just because a fish will fit in your tank, doesnt mean it will be able to swim properly, and have the space to move and use its muscles. Rectangular tanks are always better as they provide the largest air to water surface for oxygenation. Goldfish have high oxygen requirements, yet another reason bowls are completely unsuitable. All in all, the bigger the tank you can get, the happier, healthier and longer your fish will live.



Here is a list of some types of goldfish.



Fancy goldfish-can be slower than commons-

Black Moor/Telescope

Fantail

Oranda

Pompoms



Very fancy goldfish-can be much slower swimmers-

Lionhead

Ranchu

Eggfish

Celestial

Bubble Eyes



Common or pond type goldfish-fast strong swimmers-

Comet

Common Goldfish

Shubunkin



It is advised not to mix commons with fancies, and especially not very fancy goldfish. 2 main reasons are-



Competition for food, the commons will in general be faster stronger swimmers than the fancies, and definately faster and stronger than the very fancy fish. The fish with eye growth such as bubble eyes, celestials, moors wont be able to see the food aswell as the commons either,aswell as some orandas and lionheads with large wen growth. 



Spawning, male common shaped goldfish will easily out swim a female fancy goldfish, and will push her to exhaustion if they are together when she starts to spawn. The males can be very hard on the females, shoving them around and into plants etc, having a large strong male goldfish pushing a smaller female goldfish around is never going to end well. 



Males can be sexed from females by means of the breeding dots on their gill covers (not always visible out of spawning mode, although my males have always shown them at all times) and also by venting. Venting is looking at the fishes vent (where they poop from and also where females expel eggs from) the males should be flat and the females can have a tiny little bump, its becoming quite easy for me now to sex even very small goldfish via venting. 



Fancy goldfish are far more suited to aquariums than common goldfish, mainly due to their adult size. Ponds, either indoor or outside, should be considered for commons/comets/shubunkins.



Stunting is one of the most talked about subjects when it comes to keeping fish. It remains a debate with different theories as to what causes stunting in fish growth. There are different things that influence the growth rate of a fish.



Genetics obviously will play some part in this, if you have a small mother and father, the off-spring will not be as large at adult size as that of larger parents. Any tank should allow for the maximum adult size of the particular type of goldfish, and not be taken as you can go smaller as the parent fish were smaller, it could just be that the adults spawned before becoming fully grown.



Stress is another factor that is sometimes missed when it comes to stunting. When a fish is stressed, it releases hormones in response to the stress, which reduce the growth hormones. Once the stress has been removed, the fish may have a growth spurt due to the fish releasing more growth hormones again. A fish may stunt through stress while in a smaller tank, but then when placed into a larger tank could make up some growth, although will never be as large as it could have been had the stunting not taken place,and no doubt the life span will also be reduced.



Overcrowding can also cause stress.Many people tend to buy a lot of small fish and forget that their fish are still sub-adult. The lack of space can prevent the fish from developing normally as they should do as all the fish will release the stunting hormones, so the more fish there are in the tank, the stronger the hormones, doing very regular partial water changes will help dilute the hormones but in the long run stocking will need to be reduced. 



Water changes are a must, in all tanks, to dilute the nitrates that build up and also the hormones released by the fish. Gravel vacs are a very good idea too as the debris (food/poop) that drops down into the gravel will break down and further pollute the water. Goldfish poop a lot, so a gravel vac i would say is pretty much compulsary!



The nitrogen cycle is explained already in different threads so i wont go into that, but its a very important process in every aquarium.



Test kits are a fantastic product, fairly cheap to buy (dont buy test strips as they can be inaccurate) API do a good liquid drop test kit which is easy to come by and is a good price. 



Most people tend to forget the nitrate will remain in the water elevating dangerously if not for the regular partial water changes. I carry out around 60% every weekend in my goldfish tank, with a gravel vac. Nitrate should not be allowed to climb higher than 40ppm. Try to set-up a scedule for your water changes so your levels are always <40ppm before a water change, preferably, nitrates should be kept at less than 20ppm, and in heavily planted tanks the nitrates can be at zero even in a cycled fully stocked tank. Heavily planted tanks very rarely have goldfish in them though, as the goldies will simply snack away until theres not much left,good for the fish, not so good to look at. Water changes will still be needed but not so regularly if your tank is heavily planted. In high nitrate tanks, fish can become more susceptable to health issues, and can also become stunted. Even in a planted tank, you will need to water change to remove some of the fish poop etc from the gravel and keep your water in top condition. 



Filtration is extremely important. Goldfish have a reputation for being very messy compared to tropical fish but this is not always true,plecos and large cichlids for example are also very messy. 



Aim for a turnover rate of around 4-5 times the water volume of your aquarium. My aquarium has a turnover rate of around 7x the tanks volume per hour by means of 4 separate filters.There is no such thing as too much filtration, unless the out-lets are too powerful and the goldfish are swept around and get stressed in the process, this can be avoided by adding spray bars to the out-lets to disperse the flow more gently. Keeping goldfish is certainly not a cheap hobby. If you cannot afford the proper set-up, maybe try smaller cold water species such as white cloud mountain minnows for example, or maybe even a smaller tropical tank with rosy barbs as these can look quite similar to goldfish but remain much smaller. 



When it comes to cleaning the filter media,what you should do is use your old tank water or clean dechlorinated tap water in a clean bucket to rinse out the filter media. It does not have to be spotlessly cleaned as most of the dirt in it is still beneficial for the tank and will hold bacteria, the majority of your beneficial bacteria will live in your filter media. You should not replace the old filter media with new ones unless the old media is literally falling apart, and even so, try to retain a small portion of the old media to put in alongside the new so that the bacteria can more quickly colonise the new surfaces.



Diet, very important, especially for fancy goldfish. Fancy goldfish are prone to bouyancy problems due to their internal organs being cramped up in their deformed bodies. Floating foods should be avoided at all costs. Quality sinking pellets are by far the best option of shop bought foods. I use saki hikari food for mine and im happy with the results. Flake foods lose their goodness very quickly on contact with the water, so even if you put the flakes under water to stop them from floating, they have very little nutritional value compared to a pellet food. Another option you can look into is gel foods. Some people use these for their fish as they can control what goes into them and they have zero gas content in fish which do have floating issues.



Goldfish also need a lot of greens in their diet, either by means of live plants, or by adding foods to the tank a couple of times a week. My goldfish adore cooked shelled peas, and cooked broccoli. They get peas at least twice a week as they are thought to push out any trapped gases in the intestinal tract which can create floaty problems, i know when i feed them peas, the bright green poops the next day do occasionally have gas bubbles trapped in them. 



Variety in their diet will always do fish good. Mine get saki hikari pellets as their staple diet, then they have shelled cooked peas, broccoli, sweetcorn (squeeze out the squishy centers into the tank),courgette which they pick at,live or frozen daphnia/brineshrimp/bloodworm once or twice a week too. They also have live plants in the tank which they enjoy snacking on too.



With fancy goldfish especially, tank decor is something to seriously put a lot of thought into. Any ornaments which they can swim into and get trapped, should be removed. Any ornaments or plants which are sharp can easily injure these fish, and fish with eye bubbles can get caught and the eye bubble then pop, usually the fish will heal up but wont look as nice, and can become infected with the open wound, fish with protruding eyes such as moors can be blinded by rough edges too. Silk plants are best if you use fake plants, and also driftwood needs to be rounded off, so the sharp edges are all gone. 



Tankmates for goldfish, well theres other goldfish, dojo loaches, and bristlenose plecos, i always worried their sharp spines on their faces could harm my goldfish but have so far had no issues and they dont bother the goldfish at all. Apple snails are good with goldfish though may get nipped at, and nerite snails with smooth shells have also been kept successfully with goldfish. You can also house white cloud mountain minnows with goldfish, but 1 day chances are they will become a goldfish snack.



Do not add common plecos to a goldfish tank, they have been known to latch onto the side of a slow moving goldfish and eat away at its slime coat. I have seen this myself and i will never add one to a goldfish tank for this reason. It may be ok if you have a tank of just common goldfish and they can all move quickly. Personally i wouldnt try it.



I hope this helps anyone wanting to know a bit more about their fish, and ive made any mistakes or missed anything, feel free to point them out.

This is not my post but someone who has a lot of experience.


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

PGTibs said:


> This couldn't be more inaccurate. Shrimp are unlikely to be eaten, they're fast and normally to large. I've kept them with goldfish for years and keep them that way at work also.
> 
> It also depends on the type of snails, red spots, zebra snails and anything other then pest snails tend to need specific requirements for breeding. They wont become a pest if you get the right type.


I didn't mention species of snail apologies for the misunderstabding, we fed my mates carp shrimp on a regular basis, it all depends on what goldfish your are thinking of, some pf the fancy and fan tailed ones would not be able to catch them but a common goldfish can easily.


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

well on the hole i have to say that the input far2lively has posted is the best advice overall .
that said things never all ways go by the rules .after all when has any fish read the rule book ?
i think i would give the shrimp a miss fella i know a old boy that buys live river shrimp from a lfs as a treat once a fortnight for his goldies !!
that said maybe some large fan shrimp would be ok ? (Atyopsis moluccensis)
thay get bigger than the average smaller ornate shrimps around 4.5 inches i think.
as for the snail's well you could give them a go but if thay do start to breed the mass of snails will add to the bio load on the system taking you back one step rather than helping out .
imho i think id be just happy to step up the tank maintenance and keep on enjoing ya fish bud .
:thumb:


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

This is a bit of a brain dump so it doesn't read very well :blush:

There are things you can do to reduce maintenance but they mostly revolve around stocking lightly and planting heavily. As you have an overstocked tank and plant munching fish it will be difficult. The best you could do IMO would be to rehome the goldies or get a bigger tank. (145l for the first goldy and 45l per additional fish is usually quoted as a minimum for fancies)

If you keep the goldies where they are there are still things you can do though. Think about getting an additional HOB filter so you can take the top off and plant peace lillys or Pothos directly into the filter foam. This will massively help with the water quality by sucking up any free ammonia, nitrites and eventually nitrates. You can never have too much filtration and plants are the best! Terrestrial plants are particularly great because they use atmospheric CO2 so can grow fast without CO2 injection and don't need constant pruning. You still get the algae fighting effect too.

I'm a big fan of snails, especially ornamental ones (maybe trapdoor snails) as they do eat algae at an astonishing rate and are meant to help break down general tank gunk. I haven't had any luck keeping shrimp with fish as even my smaller residents have found them irresistible as toys/snacks. I'd be surprised if a bored goldy didn't dismember and/or eat them one by one. Goldfish friendly aquatic plants that are easy to grow include giant vallis, crypts, swords, java fern and hornwort. Individual goldies may of course shred/destroy particular plants but you should find something that will thrive for you (and the goldies) by trial and error.

I strongly recommend not mixing any 'sucker fish' with goldies. There are well documented draw backs to all the commonly available species.


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