# bones: are they safe for dogs?



## jamesmortimer (Jan 7, 2013)

hi, i was just at the pet shop today and picked up one of these: Hollings Ham Bones - Surrey Pet Supplies , i am wary of giving it to my dog however, is it safe?, have you ever used them?, are they any good? if not which *real* bones are safe/safer?
thanks : victory:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Most real bones are safe as long as they're raw.

I feed mine a mix of: chicken wings, lamb ribs, pork bones, beef bones, duck wings, lambs legs, sheeps head, pigs head, turkey legs, chicken carcass etc.


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## Charmingnotion (May 13, 2013)

I don't go near but raw bones are usually fine. I took in a dog that at 3 years old was going to be pts. She'd been fed on alot of bones and worn the canine teeth to the pulp then shattered the top of the tooth from chewing on the same side. She is having her £400 - £600 op on Wednesday. I think the previous owner just got the BARF diet very wrong.


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## jamesmortimer (Jan 7, 2013)

cheers, so you wouldn't recommend feeding that as a treat then?


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

My girl gets bones to chew, but I have to be careful on which I get her, she can't have ribs or stuffed bones as she can't bite chunks off them, the ribs just shattered with her. Tryed her on duck wings but the next day she threw up bits of the bones. I get the the huge jumbo beef bones and beef knuckle bones.

She use to get them a lot but I've noticed the tip of one of her bottom k9s has worn down there not pointy any more so she just has her two old ones she don't often bother with them and her antler.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I got my dogs a huge bone for Xmas one year between them and they didn't really bother with it. My guess is sometimes they have things added to them that arnt good for them. 

Uts an age old taditional thing...same as cats and mlk, which we all know isn't good..so best look into it.


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## Charmingnotion (May 13, 2013)

As a treat, I'd say fine, but just keep an eye on the canine teeth. Any ware where you start to see a circular middle bit to the tooth and stop as thats the pulp. My 11 year old collie has them from time to time, he had pulp showing when he came here as he was a failed working dog, again given alot of bones and his hasn't got any worse from the occassional bone which he loves


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## jamesmortimer (Jan 7, 2013)

thanks for all the advice everyone! :2thumb: ! i'll go ahead and see if hes alright on them (its for his first birthday) my 'little' hungarian vizsla, the thing is- if hes not occupied then he can get destructive. i'll put some pics up of him soon!!!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I think it is worth trying, but bones are never something to leave a dig with unattended.

My dog is raw fed, an expert bone eater...but still accidents happen and you should be there and watching/listening ready to stop the bone eating should anything occur


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## akuma 天 (Apr 15, 2008)

Ripley 100% loves raw bones, the bigger and more disgusting the better.

I normally get her a fresh ham bone from Pets At Home as a weekend treat, but on super special occasions she get a fresh raw bone from the butchers which she can spend hours and hours chewing.

I personally would avoid small bones such as chicken and ribs, but its all depends on how big you dog is compared to the bone they are eating.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

akuma 天;11224571 said:


> I personally would avoid small bones such as chicken and ribs, but its all depends on how big you dog is compared to the bone they are eating.



I find that my bigger mutt Wils (Inuit) will turn her nose up at big bones. Rio - the staffy cross with half his jaw amputated - will have a bash at anything. 
Wils will eat lamb ribs, pork bones, a full chicken, or a turkey leg. But if I give her a pigs / sheeps head, or a large beef bone, she just looks at it with a 'what the f*** do you want me to do with that' look on her face.


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

NEVER cooked bones. NEVER chicken bones. NEVER rib bones.

We had a doxie in a couple months ago, 3 years old, had been given cooked pork rib bones to chew for years, and it had been fine for those years. This time, however, the splinters perforated the intestines and the dog went septic and died.

I personally use bully sticks for my girl, because I don't want to the run the risk.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Chicken bones are fine, as are ribs. 

It totally depends on your animals.

My cats eat ribs, they eat chicken bones, eh eat lamb bones etc etc


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

SpiritSerpents said:


> NEVER cooked bones. NEVER chicken bones. NEVER rib bones.
> 
> We had a doxie in a couple months ago, 3 years old, had been given cooked pork rib bones to chew for years, and it had been fine for those years. This time, however, the splinters perforated the intestines and the dog went septic and died.
> 
> I personally use bully sticks for my girl, because I don't want to the run the risk.


I knew a 5 year old spaniel choke to death on kibble...would you recommend all dogs stop eating the kibble sold by your vets too?


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

Really? :bash:


OMG OXYGEN GIVES YOU CANCER! EVERYONE STOP BREATHING!


Food: Necessary for survival. Very rare choking hazard, especially in dogs and cats.

Bones: Entertainment for animals. Not required for survival, significantly more risk than food.

The rib bones case happened just a few months ago. There have been others that have required surgical removal due to bones obstructing intestines, bone splinters lacerating the throat, a cat at my old work that also died from perforation because of chicken bones, etc. Problems from chewing on bones are not all that rare.

However, if YOU want to risk a multi-thousand dollar surgery, and the potential death of your pet to give it a *particular* thing to chew on instead of another, safer, thing that is your choice. I just really hope that your pet doesn't become a statistic like Lady did.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Splintering etc won't happen with RAW bones.


SpiritSerpents said:


> Really? :bash:
> 
> 
> OMG OXYGEN GIVES YOU CANCER! EVERYONE STOP BREATHING!
> ...


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

SpiritSerpents said:


> a great big load of arse



Food = Necessary for survival. Very rare choking hazard, especially in dogs and cats
Raw bones = food. 
BARF diet = feeding raw bones
feeding raw bones = good for dogs and cats


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## chrisalty (Feb 12, 2013)

Meko said:


> Food = Necessary for survival. Very rare choking hazard, especially in dogs and cats
> Raw bones = food.
> BARF diet = feeding raw bones
> feeding raw bones = good for dogs and cats


Nice equation


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

Let's play a game. It's called "looking at previous posts".



SpiritSerpents said:


> NEVER cooked bones. NEVER chicken bones. NEVER rib bones.





freekygeeky said:


> Splintering etc won't happen with RAW bones.



Oh look. I never said anything about raw bones. I said cooked bones. I also mentioned chicken bones because the ribs can still splinter or be swallowed in larger than ideal chunks. I've seen a cat with inch long bits of chicken bone in their intestine. They were lucky it didn't obstruct. I mentioned rib bones because it's too easy for them to swallow a large chunk even if raw. And in the case of COOKED rib bones, they are a splinter fest.


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

SpiritSerpents said:


> Let's play a game. It's called "looking at previous posts".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



....Attitude much?


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

I am a veterinary technician. I SEE cases where bone feeding went wrong. My experiences, however, have all been with either cooked bones, chicken bones, or rib bones. I do know of other cases where dogs chewed off femoral heads from leg bones and those got lodged, but that is less common.

It's not attitude, it's frustration. I was told that raw bones don't splinter. Chicken bones can, but I was not talking about raw in my OP in this thread for the most part. I said never *cooked*. Most people in the states will toss cooked bones from their own meals to their pets. I talked against ribs because they're an easy shape to swallow chunks that are too large even when raw. And before someone says a dog wouldn't do that, my clinic has had 3 cases of rock ingestion, two of which required surgery and one of the dogs almost died. If dogs are willing and able to eat a golf ball + sized rock, they'll certainly be willing and able to swallow large sections of ribs.

But no, I'm told that my experiences are arse.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

Had my girl at the vets today as I've started brushing her teeth again and she was fussing over me doing it to her back tooth. well turns out she has a broken tooth, there's a tiny hole in the side of it. Vet thinks it could be from a bone, a few months back she did bite a chunk off one of the smoked shanks from pets at home so that could have been when it happened. The tooth is coming out next week. Luckerly it doesn't seem to be stopping her from eating or chewing things she shouldn't so can't be hurting that much.

So I'm officially throwing out her bones now. Can't say 100% it was the bones but all her other teeth are in great condition (vets words) and its just the bones and stag bars she has had that are hard to chew. it could have been something else (could a stick cause it) but just don't want to risk it now she has to lose a tooth.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

SpiritSerpents said:


> However, if YOU want to risk a multi-thousand dollar surgery, and the potential death of your pet to give it a *particular* thing to chew on instead of another, safer, thing that is your choice. I just really hope that your pet doesn't become a statistic like Lady did.


No risk of multi-thousand dollar surgery, this is a British forum, none of us use dollars!

Bones to me are food, food the dogs have been eating since the first time that dogs existed


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

Kare said:


> No risk of multi-thousand dollar surgery, this is a British forum, none of us use dollars!
> 
> Bones to me are food, food the dogs have been eating since the first time that dogs existed


However, it is likely that wolves in the wild, and dogs throughout history did on occasion die from obstruction or perforation from ingesting bones. Just not enough to have a huge impact on the overall population, just as humans have probably been getting, and dying from, appendicitis throughout the ages but not in enough numbers for any evolutionary pressure to come to bear.

I would rather my dog not run the risk of being one of those individuals, for similar reason to why I don't feed live to my snakes. My sister-in-law witnessed a ball python miss a strike and the rat leaped onto the snake and bit the top of the skull off. The chances are fairly slim overall, but I don't want to be the 'other people' these things happen to.


Regarding dental problems with bones:

I do see a fair number of slab fractures on teeth from such things. Usually 2 or 3 a year.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Mine have one of them raw ham bones from pets at home a week have been for over a year


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> Mine have one of them raw ham bones from pets at home a week have been for over a year


I fairly sure PAH don't do raw bones, surely they are smoked or something?


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

In a lovely case of "isn't that fitting!" we just finished a dental on a doggy here at work.... that had a chicken vertebrae partially wedged between two molars, under the dog's tongue. Wish I'd brought my camera. :/


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## jamesmortimer (Jan 7, 2013)

why does the slightest thing on here become an argument!!?!?! ive been doing my research and YES dogs have been eating bones since well... forever, it is a natural part of any wild dog- meat and bones... no bitesize dog kibble out there or little cute bully sticks (they are little dried bull penises) - 'a fake bone'!! a dog is a dog... part of the family, yes... descended from a "wild" animal which eats bones... YES
, am i right that vetinary nurses only get 2 or so weeks on canine nutrition, many of which are run by the big companys themselves... jwb, pedigree, hills etc... ofcoarse they say that sh** after all there the ones that mug us out of £50 a bag of dried up dog food (which is highly processed)... this food was made during the war for convenience not nutritional needs and become a billion dollar/pound industry!!

and that is all i have to say on that, thankyou!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Kare said:


> I fairly sure PAH don't do raw bones, surely they are smoked or something?


I Donno to be fair they look raw so I always assumed they was there in airtight packaging


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## jamesmortimer (Jan 7, 2013)

im pretty sure there smoked to preserve them however you always see people buying them : victory:


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

I was always under the impression that the bones sold in pets at home had been treated somehow, although not exactly sure how. Now I'm curious.


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

jamesmortimer said:


> ., am i right that vetinary nurses only get 2 or so weeks on canine nutrition, many of which are run by the big companys themselves...


 
You would, in fact, be really very wrong about the nutrition content of schooling. We spent 4 weeks on that at my school and not a single brand was promoted during that entire time. 

Yes, dogs and dogs ancestors have been eating bones for millenia. There have also been a small number that have been DYING from that as well. It does happen. The risk is relatively small, but it's big enough to be concerned about at least the types of bones fed.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Sure there is concern. 

However ny concern of feeding species unsuitable foods such as high carb foods to a carnivorous animal is higher

I am sure 1000's of dogs end up in shelters because owners can not cope with allergy costs and hyperactivity. Many of which will end up blue juiced because of lack of space. When on a full raw diet the problems can be eliminated or greatly reduced.

I had 2 dogs until recently and 2 out of 2 ended up far more of a handful in kibble and these were good quality kibbles


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Shall I post some controversial photos? Think I shall Millie and Fly enjoying a venison neck each (yes they are eating Bambi to make it even worse!)



















When they came to me from a rescue both had terrible teeth and Fly is actually missing some at the front, a raw diet cleaned their teeth up saving the stress and cost of them having to go have their teeth cleaned at the vet. Millie suffered from anxieties, again which changing away from ALL commercial foods and treats have helped drop that down to a level where she is now rarely suffers from anxieties. She was given a dentastix at a petshop on one occassion and that was the only time she went back to her highly anxious, agitated state. Which is a big indicator to me that there is something in them that definately isn't good for her mental state. Was not fun for either of us. Fly also used to suffer from anal gland problems, something a raw diet has helped with saving her having to go to the vet to have them emptied which not to mention the improvement in Fly's joints on the diet. While she does suffer from arthritis, it lessened when her diet was changed.

Diet is a choice everyone has to make and there are costs and benefits no matter which way you look at it, but the above is why I feel that a raw diet that includes raw meaty bones for my two is the best diet option for them. I have happier, healthier dogs on a raw diet that aren't having to go to the vets for teeth cleaning or anal gland emptying or because they are so stressed that they run away when a mug of tea is picked up because the coaster MIGHT have stuck to the bottom of it and MIGHT fall and make a sound. There is a risk no matter what you feed, there are risks of choking on raw or kibble. Had to remove a piece of kibble lodged in my previous dogs throat that she was choking on, it happens. Everyone has to do their own research and make their own choices as to what they feed their pets but no matter what you feed, there will be risks/costs either directly or indirectly.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

SilverSteno said:


> Shall I post some controversial photos? Think I shall Millie and Fly enjoying a venison neck each (yes they are eating Bambi to make it even worse!)
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Well said.

As a nurse I have heard handful of lettuce horror stories. Did you know choking on lettuce is common and pretty much always deadly. It is solid and so will not rip when air is forced past it and acts like a flap. You can breath out, but not in. Back slaps and heimlic manovere do nothing because of this.

I still enjoy a good salad myself! Shit happens


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## Richo (Jan 4, 2008)

I would never buy a bone from a pet store as they all seem to be pre-cooked, but if I'm ever at the butchers I'll ask for some spare beef bones, and my dogs get raw chicken legs and wings sometimes as we keep chickens and occasionally butcher the cockerels. I also bring home fresh roadkill roe deer sometimes and butcher them, and the dogs can't get enough of some bone and meaty off cuts from them (though not the femurs as they tend to splinter, even when raw).


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

SilverSteno said:


> I have happier, healthier dogs on a raw diet that aren't having to go to the vets for teeth cleaning .


that's true... when Rio escaped the person who found him took him to the local vet to see if they knew him.. They checked his teeth and aged him at around 8 because of them. I've had him 10 years and the dogs home thought he was 5 / 6 when i got him. Out of those 10 years he's been on BARF for the last six.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Jamiioo said:


> I was always under the impression that the bones sold in pets at home had been treated somehow, although not exactly sure how. Now I'm curious.


Yeah I think they are pre-cooked or at least smoked..







Kare said:


> Well said.
> 
> As a nurse I have heard handful of lettuce horror stories. Did you know choking on lettuce is common and pretty much always deadly. It is solid and so will not rip when air is forced past it and acts like a flap. You can breath out, but not in. Back slaps and heimlic manovere do nothing because of this.
> 
> I still enjoy a good salad myself! Shit happens


Sh*t really?! I'm never eating lettuce again!!! Lol. 







Meko said:


> that's true... when Rio escaped the person who found him took him to the local vet to see if they knew him.. They checked his teeth and aged him at around 8 because of them. I've had him 10 years and the dogs home thought he was 5 / 6 when i got him. Out of those 10 years he's been on BARF for the last six.


Wow, that's impressive!! 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

At work the ham bones that look raw but are not we throw a lot of them away cuz they go mouldy quickly so if you buy them and store them keep an eye on them, I have had a dog get one of his back teeth broken on one of the cooked filled bones but the same dog also got a dental stick stuck on roof of his mouth between his teeth I had to pull it out, with sheldon I use the antlers because he has a very sensitive stomach and wouldn't chance a bone. I wouldn't feed raw to my dog/cats but I'm very fussy what dry I feed them.


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## derek83 (May 14, 2013)

as a butcher i have this question put to me regularly, is it ok to give a dog bones?

ribs, wings and any part of any bird, no way. you are taking the risk of the bones shattering and being stuck in your dogs throat.

if you want a decent bone, ask the butcher for a ham knuckle. big solid chunky bone. you can boil it if you dont want your dog eating raw meat.

having said this, if i had a dog i wouldnt feed it any bones. i would get it a juicy steak instead.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

its the cooking of bones that make them fragile though, raw theyre not fragile, and they wont shatter.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

derek83 said:


> as a butcher i have this question put to me regularly, is it ok to give a dog bones?
> 
> ribs, wings and any part of any bird, no way. you are taking the risk of the bones shattering and being stuck in your dogs throat.
> 
> ...



then you really need to give them a different answer as you can give your customers dogs, a healthy diet whilst getting rid of your bones.

This is a price list from an animal feed place - same place i get the food for my two from - DAF Frozen Dog Foods - DAF Petfood
Everything on the list is safe as it's raw, uncooked bones that don't shatter. As a butcher you'll have plenty of bones to test it with - take cooked bones, raw bones and a hammer. Smash away and see which are less likely to cause damage.


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