# My false-bottom, expanding foam, waterfall and pond frog viv - progress log - PICS!



## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi guys,

well this is the second attempt at this build so far. the first one got ripped appart due to a 'good idea at the time' type of thing  I was having problems with bleeding the filter, and the tubing supplied with it but now I have it sussed 


I'm going down a slightly different route than some of the other logs on here as of late. I'm using expanding foam with several coatings of grout for the backgrounds, and I'm having more of a pond - waterfall - pond thing going on. 

I'll start with the filter:

I got this pretty cheap from ebay, it's large but I can just about fit it where it needs to go.

it's a 3x mechanical filter - (ceramic pre filter, coarse foam, fine foam) then it goes through a biological stage, then a chemical stage. there is a spare stage to add something different in too, felt pads apparently :S











the best thing about it is this - 









it's double quick release thing, so when you need to remove the filter you can do it in one go. the power input is just in the form of a jack, which unplugs. (instead of plugging directly into the mains) which is handy.



False Bottom:
I've played around with different heights, and it seems that it does not need to be that deep under the false bottom. I cut some lengths of egg crate and zip tied them to the bottom of the main crate, cut a notch in the corent for the tube and then wraped a piece of weed barrier around it then stitched the weed barrier in place with cotton thread. 










THe tubes that came with the filter were absolutly useless, I used some of the tubing I normally use for watercooling PC's. It's got a much better bend radius, and is a slightly smaller internal diametre than the stock stuff so it fits over the barbs very tight!










The false bottom fits in nice and snug, with no gaps around the edges. 


Background:

THe first thing I did was to make a square cavity for the up tube to sit in. this means that iv I ever needed to take the tube out, i could do soas it would not be anchored in with foam ( not that I made that mistake ont he first build or anything :whistling2:.










Using very quick movements I blasted the foam in lines across the back wall. it expands a little as it comes out the end, and as tempting as it is to fill int he gap[s there is no need. it contiues to expand more and more as it sets. 

I pushed in some ledges and plant pots while it was wet. 


This is the next day:









with the two walls covered I trimmed back a lot of the foam. I realised I had missed some parts so I had to add a little more this morning around the top. yo will see why later  










I added more around the top of the pnd assembly, it will be easier to see why but i'll try to explain it for now -




The probelm with the first build was where the tubes entered the top of the viv - sealing them was a nightmare!!

What I have done this time around is put a 'pond' int he corener of the viv made from a bottle bottom. then I have put a large funnel above this, with a tube attached. 

the filter fills the funnel, the funnel fills the pond (which has a mister in it) and the pond pours out down a waterfall. but the 'clever' part is this:











not the best picture, but when the foam is trimmed fulsh, andf th e lid is put on. the foam will press against the mesh. It will be sealed with a neoprene gasket and the mesh will be sealed with silicone. It's hard to understand now but what I will have will be a big hole in the meshwhere the tubes will go in. instead of sealing the tuibes into the mesh top, the mesh top will from a seal with the decor when the lid is put on. hopefully I can make it all a little more clear later on. 

his is the back view of the tank, where the tube goes into the bottom:











bottom pond:

I want an area of water in the bottom which is more like a pool. it will have places of rest in the form of rocks, and it's level can be changed simply by adding or taking away water from the system. 

to achieve seperation from water and earth I've cut some foam which will be covered with grout and silicone. this ill create a nice loooking wall for the pool and create a barrier to prevent soil falling in, or being washed in. it gives me a generous sized pool but the shape means that plants can be planted quite effectivly. here is waht it looks like fromt he top down:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

looking great as of yet!!! cant wait to see the finished thing


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## RikMetro (Feb 26, 2009)

That looks wicked! wont frogs fall down the gap at the back made for the pipe tho? when will it be finished? lookin good!


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Looks good. I like how you are using 2 walls...i have read that expanding foam can release toxins into the water and so when I had mine I used epoxy (useless) then silicone to form a barrier where it was going to have water that the frogs would have access to, basically the pond...just a thought, I could be wrong....:2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

That should look brilliant when it's finished!

Aghhh all these vivs I want to start mine! Can't until I move flat :bash:


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## LiamAndKec (Jan 23, 2009)

It is amazing. I for one can not wait to see the finished product.


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

RikMetro said:


> That looks wicked! wont frogs fall down the gap at the back made for the pipe tho? when will it be finished? lookin good!


 
 I'm coming up to that part. that's where the top mesh seal thingie comes in - the next few pics i upload will explain it all.

the foams outer 'skin' is carved off, and left outside over night, it's then overed in 2or 3 layers of grout, then silicone. 

pretty hard to take pics of really, just looks like a big white splodge lol. I'vve thinned all of the walls out now and the first coat of grout is drying. hoping to get the second coat on before it gets dark. 

should be finished by the weekend but it's gonna be weeks before i can get any frogs to go in. until then it will have the water flowing round and round with frequent changes, then finally i'll start the amonia cycle in the water, ready for the frogs.


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## TheToad888 (Dec 18, 2008)

Looks pro. Can not wait to see da finished version!


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

hey guys, mini update 

the second / third coat of grout is now on. the last coat was very thick, just slapped it on. it's already dry, but still a little dark so by the morning it should be fine. it's SOLID though! 

before I get onto that I'll finish explaining the lid seal thing....
Once the extra foam I layed down had dried, I started carving it away again. making sure to leave it a little bit proud of the rim. 










When the mesh top is on it looks like this, It's already quite good seal...









Then I made a neopreme (or is it neoprene? :S) gasket, now it is well sealed! this will be siliconed onto the top of the rocks when the grout is done.









and with the mesh:









here is a random shot of the bottom of the tank too -











this is the most messy job - the grout.
I'm using a very dark grey grout which I put quite a thin coat on at first. it's pointless putting a thick coat on first. 










I also start to grout the bottom pond divider:








more on that later 

after a few more coats, I leave it to dry and it looks like this:









a shot of the top pond, sealed against the mesh:











Here is the divide I have made for the pond. It's probably going to be siliconed tomorrow when it is fully dry. It gives quite a nice effect. 









another shot of the waterfall:














Now the thing I cant get across in the photo's is what this viv looks like in the flesh. I know I keep saying it and I know it really doesnt look like it! but all the scenery is considerably thin. I just cant show it lol. 

Tomorrow is silicone day, and will also be filling up the false bottom with hydroleca, sorting the mesh top + tubes out and doign a bit of work with some slate for the bottom pond. 

thanks for reading and thanks for the comment,
Rick


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## Erinaceinae (Mar 26, 2007)

will the wooden waterfall not rot?
just a thought, looks awsome!

elsa


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

thats looking fantastic!!!

when i made mine it really broke my heart to not put a 'bottom pool' in like that coz my froggies would drown - i REALLY cant wait to see this done :flrt:


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

Elsa said:


> will the wooden waterfall not rot?
> just a thought, looks awsome!
> 
> elsa


In all honesty I don't know! It's cork, so it should last a while. but it's not fixed in! I just made places for it to 'rest' in place but it's still secure. easy to take out if i need to



chondro13 said:


> thats looking fantastic!!!
> 
> when i made mine it really broke my heart to not put a 'bottom pool' in like that coz my froggies would drown - i REALLY cant wait to see this done :flrt:


Chondro, I know what you mean, it's not going to be suitable for all species. but the thing is, with a false bottom like yours and mine you can get it running with a pool, then simply take some water out to make it more shallow. as long as the filter has been ruinning a few hours it will not get any deeper. You could just adjust the water level as they grow. That's what I'm planning on anyway. It's going to have some raised rocks in there too for them to sit on, but I doubt they will. 

are there any issues with using blue aquarium pebbles by the way? will the frogs eat them? they will be sunk down to the bottom of the pool all of the time and no where else. 

I think I might have to make a video of it to be honest, I've just went back down stairs to see it and it looks different to the pics. 

btw, like the RETF card? ha ha I got it for my mam for her birthday card, she just said 'ha ha' sarcastically when she got it. so now I've put it in the tank, just to wind people up (not too keen on herps, my mam and dad)


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a bottom pool, but I filled it with some large flat rock (for ground coverage) and then added some large pebbles to make it shallow. The stones are exposed in some areas but the it looks deeper....It is a shame though when you go through all that work for just a little bit of water...but it is what needs to be done. :lol2: 

looks great


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

fantastic, 

just come back from the cash and carry with 2 cases of water...


after making a joke to my girlfriend about making sure we dont get sparkling water by mistake.... welll you can guess the rest. 

:blush:

was not obvious though!!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

You didn't?

Hahahaha!


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> You didn't?
> 
> Hahahaha!


 
yea, I did.










went to tescos to get some though, much cheaper than the cash and carry!!! 13p per 2l. all the other bottled waters come in 1.5l bottles.



here is a sum up of todays progress...


I siliconed most of the grouted parts, inlculing the dividor for the bottom pond, then i added some eco earth on top in some places. it looks a bit gash at the moent but once it becomes moist it will blend in more.



















once the silicone was set, I sert the divider in place and filled in one space with hydroleca. 










I started off some eco earth in a bucket - a little goes a LONG way!

















start adding the soil ontop of the leca









I added a couple of plant pots, and some orchid bark atop the soil.


















startring to add plants:


















first water test:


















extremly happy so far, the water is running far too fast but i can sort that out. just letting everythign flush through and be filtered. going to change the water a few times and give the filters a scrub before starting the amonia cycle and adding the frogs. goign to be a few weeks i think.

more pics to come - i have more plants to go in. 

thanks for looking, 
Rick


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

looking amazing!!!!! :flrt:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looking good!


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## grebo_13 (Mar 26, 2008)

Looking good, nice to see abit of effort has gone into this build :2thumb: Hope you don't take this the wrong way but I would personally move the fern plant that you have placed right in the centre to somewhere else as I had one of them in my viv and when they grow they take up a fair amount of space and would ruin the look of your tank. It would be a shame to spoil it as you can only just make out the water fall now let alone once it starts growing. Other than that it looks great! 

EDIT: What species of frog are you planning on putting in there?

Adam


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## treefrogschris (May 25, 2006)

Looking really good and excellent step by step guide.
What was the grout you used ? (I'd never considered using it because loads contain fungicides, would be good to know which one you found)


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

grebo_13 said:


> Looking good, nice to see abit of effort has gone into this build :2thumb: Hope you don't take this the wrong way but I would personally move the fern plant that you have placed right in the centre to somewhere else as I had one of them in my viv and when they grow they take up a fair amount of space and would ruin the look of your tank. It would be a shame to spoil it as you can only just make out the water fall now let alone once it starts growing. Other than that it looks great!
> 
> EDIT: What species of frog are you planning on putting in there?
> 
> Adam


hey,

I've moved the plants around a bit now. I've added a prayer plant in there too which has nice big leaves. 

I'm Frog species will be RETF - if I can get them at the right price. Just letting the plants regain a little bit of strength after being re-planted and so on before I let any phibs climb all over them!


got the waterfall sorted too! flowing at just the right rate and the filter now makes no noise. it's not going to annoy me lol. 




treefrogschris said:


> Looking really good and excellent step by step guide.
> What was the grout you used ? (I'd never considered using it because loads contain fungicides, would be good to know which one you found)


Thanks 

I'm using the most bog standard grout I could get. it doesnt have anything ending in 'cides' as far as i'm aware.

It's unibond Rapid set, mixed from a powder form (essential! don't bother with ready mixed!!!)



Unibond said:


> UniBond Rapid Range
> 
> 
> 
> ...


there is a few unibond grouts which contain fungicides etc, its not that one.

the silicone is aquarium grade sealant too, so no nasties in there either. THe expanding foam was left overnight outside to air off. again no-frills foam, not anti mould, anti UV etc etc just the most basic, non discript i could find.


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## Justtds (Aug 12, 2008)

Looking really good!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Any more pics with the updated plants?


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Any more pics with the updated plants?


yea 

i'll get some up around 9 pm tonight as i should have the lioghting sorted then.

will do a video too.


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

great thread :2thumb:

really nice to see people making a effort with the setups, well done

look forward to the finished article


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## frogs_an_lizards_an_Ad (Feb 26, 2009)

looking awesome..great info helps alot when explined soo well =]

adam.


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

hi guys,

didnt get as much done today as I had hoped, so still no truly finished pics.

I've been making some alterations to a 45cm exoterra canopy. I've put in 2x 8watt T-5 lamps (2% UVB arcadia reptile lamps) and a night glow lamp in there too. The lights will be set on timers so that when the day lights turn off, the night light turns on. 

the day lights are linked at the moment, but I may seperate them int he future and put them on seperate timers so that one light goes off an hour before the next, just to make the transition a little smoother.










everythign here is low power, low heat and relativly low light. makes the viv look very nice though!

turning the night glow bulb on was a bit of an anti climax! it hardly gives out any light, I'm sure it will be enough for viewing, but I was expecting just a little more output.


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

as promised here are some more pics:

done(since last time):
added light canopy
changed plants around
re-jiggered the water divide
changed water
fixed flow rate of water
sorted tubes out.

to do:
swap plants around a little more, maybe add devils ivy
set up timers
finalise humidity levels
add some stones in that have been sitting on my desk all week
add a long vine from room to pond
add more vines / climbing things.
add frogs!


here are the pics with the night light on:
obviously it's not as bright as it looks here but once your eyes have adjusted it is easy to view the insides of the viv. it's better when the whole room is pitch black.





























I've had mixed reviews with regards to these blue stones - some people like them some dont. I like them myself. I really wanted to make the pond seperate and stand out from the rest of the viv. 



















space was an issue, but it fits on my shelf with abou 7mm to spare!



















this 'prayer plant' is starting to show signs that it may give up the ghost. I need to get some nutrients into the water! (I need some frogs)











fogger will be on a timer. to mist at certain times of the day. this will take some trial and error but it should work well. It looks very cool when it is on!



























thats it for now folks.

if anyone has any questions - fire away!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

i hate the blue stones. LOL but thats just me (simply coz everything else looks soooo natural!)

However, its AMAZING!!! the only thing i would say - is have you got something covering the fogger? because if an animal comes into contact with the membrane it can seriously harm them (this is in the manufacturers guidelines on exo terra foggers, i assume they are all the same) 

gorgeous viv :notworthy:


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## AreBee (Aug 3, 2008)

chondro13 said:


> i hate the blue stones. LOL but thats just me (simply coz everything else looks soooo natural!)
> 
> However, its AMAZING!!! the only thing i would say - is have you got something covering the fogger? because if an animal comes into contact with the membrane it can seriously harm them (this is in the manufacturers guidelines on exo terra foggers, i assume they are all the same)
> 
> gorgeous viv :notworthy:


THanks 

I dont know what it is about the stones... I guess it's because they look fresh.... I want people who don't know what they are looking at to see what is going on... otherwise I think it may just look like a glass tank full of wet mud lol. gives me a 'slice of paradise' feeling lol. 

I could perhaps go for a different colour stone, perhaps black or grey to match the other stone. 
my girlfriend chose the blue stones it is all her fault she made me do it, she made me do it! 

the fogger sits in a little pool in the top there. I made a little jail-bar-esque grate across the opening with coctail sticks before (pusing them deep into the foam, then pulling them out at a different angle to press them against the other side. It worked but was not happy with the looks of it. so it's plan B for that. I will need to take the fogger out at some point to change the membrane so I cant have anything too permanent. 

the cocktail stick thing works, but looks crap. mesh etc does not work because of the odd shapes involved. the fog is also very fragile, anything in its way and it will just condense upon it. 

and yea the foggers are not nice when you put your finger int he way of them! let alone a whole frog! 

still got time to work it out.

thanks


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

AreBee said:


> THanks
> 
> I dont know what it is about the stones... I guess it's because they look fresh.... I want people who don't know what they are looking at to see what is going on... otherwise I think it may just look like a glass tank full of wet mud lol. gives me a 'slice of paradise' feeling lol.
> 
> ...



:lol2: maybe multi coloured natural riverbed stones? that way you would still see the bottom without the .. er... modern rave fashions intruding upon the viv? :lol2:

im sure youve got it covered with the membrane - viv is truly looking stunning cant wait to see froggies in there! what you getting? :2thumb:


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## hullreptilelover (Mar 4, 2006)

Absolutley fantastic and If I was a frog, Id definatley wanna live in your tank! lol! And I love the blue stones! xxx


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## frogs_an_lizards_an_Ad (Feb 26, 2009)

yeah the mister an foggers are all the same if you put your finger just over the water that shoots up itll shock you...i found that out at work..=[

but wow gorgeous viv great ideas..n prayer plants never last long in vivs from my experience..

adam.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ahhh man that looks really good!!!!!!! I love the night lights!


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## sarahking20 (Apr 12, 2008)

just wondering if the pond bit is too deep? looks quite deep. just make sure its shallow enough so they can sit in it, but still have their head above the water (obviously!!!) we have a shallow-ish exo-terra water bowl thingy, and worked out we had to half the water level so the smaller retfs could sit in it comfortabley.

otherwise looks fantastic. i hope to use some of your methods on a show viv i will be doing soon for darts! definately gunna follow your instructions for background, and waterfall.

excellent stuff :2thumb:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

looks realy good mate.

where do you get the expanding foam from? want to make sure that what i get is safe

What grout did you use?

been looking at setting up a large viv for a while now and i like the idea of being able to shape my background to how I want it.


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## madcatfergus (Dec 7, 2009)

*fantasticle!*

hello, ive been very impressed with yours and chandros vivs and just need a little bit of help.

so far i have made a flase bottom, waterfall, and got some delicious bits of wood but its the contruction of the background thats getting me.
i love the grout :flrt: so i shall be doing that its just the sealer.
did you put your aquarium sealer all over your background? 
what colour did you use?

thanks:2thumb:


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Absolutely superb - seriously, it looks utterly brilliant mate. I`d love just one of these in the front room, so gonna have to get into the frogs just so I can make one!!!

All credit to you, it really does look absolutely, bloody brilliant!!!!!


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

WOW! 

That's an awesome viv.. It's really inspired me for my frog display viv. I've been planning it for years, it's one of those things I just haven't got round to, or had the spare cash to do it properly. (One of those things that I won't just stick together!) 

I have the viv.. and the hydroleca. That's as far as I've got!


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