# Crestie Heating



## chriscurzon (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi All

Im having trouble getting my heating right wondering if anyone can give some advice.

I have an exo terra 45x45x60 with canopy at the moment I have put lino on the bottom with a thin lay 1-2 cm or bark on top and a heat mat underneath the tank. 

Problem is the lino is getting really hot 33.5c ish but above bark its only around 24.5c and then higher up in the viv its only 17c, This is with no house heating on as it is in the day at the moment.

When I put heating on the temp above the bark goes up to about 28c and then higher up around 22c.

Am at a lose as what to do now as I have tired the mat on the side of the viv but it didn’t do anything at all and underneath with no lino it would heat up either.

Can anyone help suggest what I could do, I was thing a stat to set heat mat at 27 maybe and then use a sunglow bulb in the canopy for extra heat would that work possibly?


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

Personally, I'd ditch the heat mat altogether and just use an incandescent bulb (Sun Glos are fine) if you want to raise the ambient air temperature, as heat mats will only produce a very localised temperature increase. The only reservation is the canopy: is it an Exo Terra one? If so, they can only be used with bulbs of up to 26w and such a low wattage might not generate sufficient heat. Personally, I use Zoo Med canopies (one of these), as they can be used with higher wattage bulbs, with 40w Sun Glos in all my rhac vivs (all 45x45x60 Exo Terras), all controlled by dimmer stats. This creates a thermal gradient of between 27C (directly under the basking spot) down to about 21C in all the vivs.


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## meljayne (Nov 11, 2011)

Cresties dont need a lot of heat, if you heat the viv too much your cresties will begin to get stressed. Mine are kept at an ambient temp of around 70 (21 celcius) which is basically just over room temp, they are statted with a 15w pygmy bulb which i've found is ample for heating their viv, they also have a heat mat under substrate as a back up incase bulb blows etc etc.. As long as the temp doesn't drop below 65 (18) they should be fine, i would fit a bulb holder inside the viv and experiment with different wattage bulbs to obtain correct ambient temp rather than using a mat as a primary heat source 

Hope this helps a bit  

Mel


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## chriscurzon (Sep 27, 2011)

Thank you for the replies.

Annoying thing is iv just bought the heat mat and canopy new so dont really want to ditch then and get another. 

Would putting the heat mat on the side with polystyrene over it to direct heat and then a 25 watt bulb not help. 

i know they dont create alot of heat but it and dosent go below 16 and i think its only over heating at the moment as heat mat in under the lino causing it to get really hot.


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## meljayne (Nov 11, 2011)

You can do yeah.. If i was you id pop it in a cupboard and just keep as
a back up heat source, i would definatley go with getting a stat though but do not completley rely on what you've set your stat to.. I made this mistake with £1200's worth of retic luckily a friend pointed it out before it could do damage, so make sure you have at least one other thermometer to keep a check on temps if using a stat, best bet would be an infared heat gun which i now use due to number of vivs.. But not a reptile branded one.. Far too overpriced!


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## chriscurzon (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks you, Iv not got a stat on the heatmat yet but will be getting one soon.

Iv got a digital thermometer with 2 sensors and an exo terra one in there to keep an eye on temps at the moment. 

I havent got any cresites yet as wanted it setup right before putting them in anyway


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

meljayne said:


> Cresties dont need a lot of heat, if you heat the viv too much your cresties will begin to get stressed. Mine are kept at an ambient temp of around 70 (21 celcius) which is basically just over room temp, they are statted with a 15w pygmy bulb which i've found is ample for heating their viv, they also have a heat mat under substrate as a back up incase bulb blows etc etc.. As long as the temp doesn't drop below 65 (18) they should be fine, i would fit a bulb holder inside the viv and experiment with different wattage bulbs to obtain correct ambient temp rather than using a mat as a primary heat source
> 
> Hope this helps a bit
> 
> Mel


To be honest, I would seriously question this advice. Yes, cresties can suffer from heat stress, but that tends to be when they're exposed to prolonged high temperatures (higher than 30C (86F) for example), when they have no ability to move to a cooler location, as might happen on a hot summer day. As long as the crestie has the opportunity to move to a cooler region of the enclosure if it needs to, there is no harm in having a hot spot of 30C: indeed, this enables the crestie to thermoregulate properly, which is essential for their well-being. I have witnessed for myself the benefits of ensuring that there's a thermal gradient in the viv: since introducing basking spots, all of my rhacs are far more active and their (already very healthy) appetites have improved. 

Also, with regard to minimum temperature, rhacs are able to cope with lower temperatures than you mention: mine are regular exposed to a night time drop down to 16C (61F) and I'm aware of other keepers who allow their nighttime temperatures to drop as low as 13C (55F) with no ill-effects.




chriscurzon said:


> Thank you for the replies.
> 
> Annoying thing is iv just bought the heat mat and canopy new so dont really want to ditch then and get another.
> 
> ...


Personally, I _*really*_ wouldn't cover the mat in polystyrene: that may cause the mat to overheat and crack the glass of the viv (there should _*always*_ be a gap to allow air to circulate around a heat mat when used with a glass viv: that's why Exo Terras are designed with 'feet' to raise them above a heat mat if one is placed underneath the viv). To be honest, I don't think that the heat mat will make much difference anyway. They're not designed to increase the ambient air temperature at all, but rather to produce a localised 'hot spot' for species that bask, such as leopard geckos. As an example, I've just measured the temperature in one of my leo vivs: directly on top the heat mats, it's 32C, whereas 2cm above it the temperature has dropped to 22C (ambient room temperature here at the moment).


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## meljayne (Nov 11, 2011)

I know this i was talking about ambient temp, which is different from temp directly under the heat source, my infared therm is reading 26 under the light with ambient at 21-22, my cresties never sit directly under their light they always look for a cooler spot which would lead me to believe they don't want to be too hot. As for temp drops at night its okay letting them drop further than my suggestive temp but i personally wouldn't want to give advice that every crestie could not adapt to, that is all, i know of people who also let theirs drop to 55 at night but wouldn't reccomend it as the lowest temp a crestie can properly digest it's food is 63 according to the avs books..


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## debiorme (Aug 28, 2011)

Hi,crestie really dont like it hot,room temp of 70-75 is fine,nothing over 80 or they get very stressed. On that size tank ive got a 20watt heatmat selotaped to the bottom & over only half the tank,2inch thick of substrate & only LED lighting so no heat of that,the temp stays at 70-75 easely, on a nite while the heating is on i turn off the mats and the temps goes to 75-80, i mist twice a day & it stay nice & humid.i also have a rack with 6 x 30/30/45 tanks on,they share a heatmat/placed in the middle/sides of there tanks, there tanks have paper roll on there flooring and the temps keep at 75 dropping to 65/68 on a nite, i also turn there mats of when the heating is on. works for me:2thumb: , you could try a red 15 watt pygmy bulb for watching them move around on a night, but they do know theres alight on them so tend not to wonder till it goes dark lol. x


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## meljayne (Nov 11, 2011)

A daytime temperature gradient of 72-80 F (22-26.5 C) should be provided for crested geckos, with a drop at night time to 65-75 F (18-24 C). Crested geckos get stressed at higher temperatures. A low wattage red night-time bulb makes a good heat source. Do not rest a heat source right the top of the tank, as these climbing geckos could get too close and burns could result.

That is from exotic pets so that is what the experts at this jobbie recommend, im not claiming to be any kind of expert i am simply going of experience.. My cresties are now also mating aswell which they wouldn't do if they weren't completley happy with their environment, sure there are different varients of temps from person to person, i would just go off your animals and if they are constantly under the light, and very lethargic temps need to be upped vice versa


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Personally... if i'm using heat mats on the OUTSIDE of a viv, i don't attach a thermostat. They don't provide an ambient temperature so there's little risk of it over heating the viv.





debiorme said:


> Hi,crestie really dont like it hot,room temp of 70-75 is fine,nothing over 80 or they get very stressed. On that size tank ive got a 20watt heatmat *selotaped to the bottom* & over only half the tank,2inch thick of substrate & only LED lighting so no heat of that,the *temp stays at 70-75* easely, *on a nite while the heating is on i turn off the mats and the temps goes to 75-80*, i mist twice a day & it stay nice & humid.i also have a rack with 6 x 30/30/45 tanks on,they share a heatmat/placed in the middle/sides of there tanks, there tanks have paper roll on there flooring and *the temps keep at 75 dropping to 65/68 on a nite, i also turn there mats of when the heating is on*. works for me:2thumb: , you could try a red 15 watt pygmy bulb for watching them move around on a night, but they do know theres alight on them so tend not to wonder till it goes dark lol. x



It works for you but does it work for them?

You've got it hotter in the evening when the heating is on, than it is during the day and then when you go to bed you turn the heating off so it goes cooler. Natural heating is - hotter during the day, warm in the evening and cool at night. yours - warm - hot - cool.
So it's probably confusing them.

You've also got your heat mat on the floor which is giving a warm floor but they spend most of their time higher up where it should be warmer.


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## debiorme (Aug 28, 2011)

without confussing matters, my temps are 75-80 throughout the day dropping to 65/68 on a nite time,works fine for mine,im no expert,but there all eating,pooing,breeding so i take it there happy :2thumb:


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## debiorme (Aug 28, 2011)

Meko said:


> Personally... if i'm using heat mats on the OUTSIDE of a viv, i don't attach a thermostat. They don't provide an ambient temperature so there's little risk of it over heating the viv.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what i meant was,i turn there mats off when the heating is on as they dont need them because the room temp is fine and i dont want them to overheat.debi x


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

meljayne said:


> I know this i was talking about ambient temp, which is different from temp directly under the heat source, my infared therm is reading 26 under the light with ambient at 21-22, my cresties never sit directly under their light they always look for a cooler spot which would lead me to believe they don't want to be too hot. As for temp drops at night its okay letting them drop further than my suggestive temp but i personally wouldn't want to give advice that every crestie could not adapt to, that is all, i know of people who also let theirs drop to 55 at night but wouldn't reccomend it as the lowest temp a crestie can properly digest it's food is 63 according to the avs books..


My comment was aimed at your initial post, which made no reference to thermal gradient, but seemed instead to relate to the ambient air temperature. I couldn't see why ambient temperature was relevant, the important thing for cresties is to create a thermal gradient, so there won't really be an "ambient temperature" as such within the viv.



meljayne said:


> A daytime temperature gradient of 72-80 F (22-26.5 C) should be provided for crested geckos, with a drop at night time to 65-75 F (18-24 C). Crested geckos get stressed at higher temperatures. A low wattage red night-time bulb makes a good heat source. Do not rest a heat source right the top of the tank, as these climbing geckos could get too close and burns could result.
> 
> That is from exotic pets so that is what the experts at this jobbie recommend, im not claiming to be any kind of expert i am simply going of experience.. My cresties are now also mating aswell which they wouldn't do if they weren't completley happy with their environment, sure there are different varients of temps from person to person, i would just go off your animals and if they are constantly under the light, and very lethargic temps need to be upped vice versa


Don't get me wrong, care sheets and books can be a valuable resource for general information and to point new keepers in the 'right direction' as it were. However, you have to bear in mind that many of them were written several (or, in some cases) many years ago and the information they contain is often out of date, even though it's still being repeated (how often have you come across care sheets that display more than a whiff of plagiarism?!). That's the advantage that a forum like this has over a book: members can relate their experiences, many of which are more current / pertinent than the generic information contained in a book, or share the latest research with other members. So, when a member asks a specific question, as in this case about crestie temperatures, personally I think it's better to provide up to date info based upon the recommendation of experienced keepers (like in this thread) rather than relying on books.

Oh and just one more observation - and let me make this clear, it is _*not *_aimed directly at you or your husbandry techniques, but is simply a general observation - but with regard to your comment that your cresties "are now also mating aswell which they wouldn't do if they weren't completley happy with their environment" well, sadly, that isn't true. It's clear from all too many contributions on this forum that people are 'successfully' (for want of a better word) breeding animals that are kept in sub-optimum conditions or are ill etc. As I say, that is most certainly not a dig at you: I'm just trying to convey the point that reproduction is a primal thing and animals will do it regardless.


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## meljayne (Nov 11, 2011)

Like i said in my post i am no cresties expert just going off experience. My animals are not at all kept in sub - optimal conditions thankyou, in future when you correct someone maybe try to be a little less patronising towards other people. The guy is new to keeping cresties and i thought i'd share my experience SORRY i didnt tell him the absolute bare minimum temp they could be kept at, and SORRY i didn't meantion the absolute max. He wants to know how to keep his healthy not save as much as possibly on energy bills. I won't bother in future, this forum is supposed to give friendly advice to new keepers not shoot down anyone who shares their own experience of keeping reptiles with them.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

meljayne said:


> Like i said in my post i am no cresties expert just going off experience. My animals are not at all kept in sub - optimal conditions thankyou, in future when you correct someone maybe try to be a little less patronising towards other people.


Where, exactly, did I say that you kept your cresties in "sub-optimal conditions"? At no point have I referred to your husbandry. On the contrary, I actually stated "let me make this clear, it is _*not *_aimed directly at you or your husbandry techniques, but is simply a general observation". If you try re-reading my comment, you will see that it did *not* refer to you or the way in which you keep your animals.



meljayne said:


> The guy is new to keeping cresties and i thought i'd share my experience SORRY i didnt tell him the absolute bare minimum temp they could be kept at, and SORRY i didn't meantion the absolute max. He wants to know how to keep his healthy not save as much as possibly on energy bills.


Yes, the OP is new to keeping cresties, which is why I chose to offer clear, consistent advice based upon both my personal experience and the observations of other experienced members rather than simply reciting out dated information gleaned from care sheets, as it may well enable them to provide a better quality of care for their pets. 



meljayne said:


> I won't bother in future, this forum is supposed to give friendly advice to new keepers not shoot down anyone who shares their own experience of keeping reptiles with them.


And all I have done is offer advice based upon *my* personal experience. You're the one who seems to have interpreted that advice as 'shooting you down' because it contrasts with yours. You've also misconstrued some general comments and taken others out of context as being directed at you, even though I have clearly stated that they are not.


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## heatherjhenshaw (Jan 30, 2010)

chriscurzon said:


> Hi All
> 
> Im having trouble getting my heating right wondering if anyone can give some advice.
> 
> ...



I am by no means an expert, far from it, but I was having a similar struggle a month ago, and found the solution was a heat mat, a thermostat, and bubble wrap !, tape the mat to side of the viv, stat it (placing the probe on the inside with a thermometer in the same place to check temp) and then cover the mat with bubble wrap and tape down. Stopped all the heat going out into the chilly room and directed it into the tank. The stat stopped it getting too hot, or too cold, just perfect :2thumb:, its been running for the past 3 weeks and never wavers, 25.5C max in the hot area, 20.1C min in the cool area

Hope that helps a little


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

*Olivines input....*

*I don't own Crested Geckos myself, but I can tell you that any advice and information supplied by Olivine is 100% on the money, she is a very experienced keeper (I'd say expert, but I know she wouldn't like that ha!) and to be honest Crested gecko's are the simplest/easiest and most straight forward of the Geks she keeps, she is acclaimed for the very high quality of all her animals and the care they recieve, including the rarer species which she has had much success with, she has helped countless people on here and on other forums and her website is a real gem full of wonderful insight, she is highly respected on here and on other Rep forums and though she would never ever say this herself, nor agree, she is a very intelligent lady who has forgotten more than many know full stop when it comes to reps. She is always polite and helpful and never downs anyone, even when some quite frankly are talking complete nonsence, I don't know why it has been taken as such by MelJayne, nothing she wrote seemed at all a personal attack on you, merely info to help the OP sort the issues she is having and thus offer the very best care and optimum conditions to her animals.*


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## sheena is a gecko (Apr 22, 2011)

olivine said:


> Personally, I'd ditch the heat mat altogether and just use an incandescent bulb (Sun Glos are fine) if you want to raise the ambient air temperature, as heat mats will only produce a very localised temperature increase. The only reservation is the canopy: is it an Exo Terra one? If so, they can only be used with bulbs of up to 26w and such a low wattage might not generate sufficient heat. Personally, I use Zoo Med canopies (one of these), as they can be used with higher wattage bulbs, with 40w Sun Glos in all my rhac vivs (all 45x45x60 Exo Terras), all controlled by dimmer stats. This creates a thermal gradient of between 27C (directly under the basking spot) down to about 21C in all the vivs.


I agree with Olivine, we have been using a 25w night glow bulb with our exo canopy and find it gives a temp gradient of 26c at the top, tapering gradually to 21c at the bottom. having said that ours were just babies and in 30x30x45 exos so I'm not sure if that wattage bulb would raise temps enough in a bigger viv



loonymoony said:


> *I don't own Crested Geckos myself, but I can tell you that any advice and information supplied by Olivine is 100% on the money, she is a very experienced keeper (I'd say expert, but I know she wouldn't like that ha!) and to be honest Crested gecko's are the simplest/easiest and most straight forward of the Geks she keeps, she is acclaimed for the very high quality of all her animals and the care they recieve, including the rarer species which she has had much success with, she has helped countless people on here and on other forums and her website is a real gem full of wonderful insight, she is highly respected on here and on other Rep forums and though she would never ever say this herself, nor agree, she is a very intelligent lady who has forgotten more than many know full stop when it comes to reps. She is always polite and helpful and never downs anyone, even when some quite frankly are talking complete nonsence, I don't know why it has been taken as such by MelJayne, nothing she wrote seemed at all a personal attack on you, merely info to help the OP sort the issues she is having and thus offer the very best care and optimum conditions to her animals.*


Well said Lunar :no1: OP you could not do better than listening to Vals advice. What she doesn't know about geckos in particular is just not worth knowing. She is one of the very few keepers/breeders whose opinion I rate very highly and along with a couple of others on here (you know who you are guys) is one of the first I would go to if I ever needed advice on my own reps.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

boadave84 said:


> To certain ppl on this thread it is a matter of sharing expirience not taking sides on who gives better advice grow the f##k up the lot of you one person deserves the right to give advice without bein shot to shit you should be ashamed of yourselves call yourself reptilians your nothin but a bunch of patronizing old women with nothing better to do than pick at ppls posts. Moderator plz lock thread!!!!


No one has been "shot to :censor:" for expressing an opinion. Others have merely politely explained that there are alternative approaches to husbandry, which, in my opinion and in the opinion of other members, are more effective and, therefore, would be more beneficial for the OP's crestie. And *that* is the primary concern on this thread: that the OP is able to offer their crestie the optimum care possible right from the outset. 

However, certain members seem to have a problem with others expressing opinions that conflict with their own, passing on their experience and making general factual statements. But that is precisely what this forum is for: debating husbandry techniques and sharing experience, with *every* member being equally entitled to participate. If you feel that resorting to personal abuse simply because other members disagree with you is acceptable, then I'm afraid that you'll soon get a rude reawakening.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

boadave84 said:


> call yourself reptilians !



i'd be quite worried if people called themselves reptilians

There's a lot of freaky people on here who love reptiles a bit too much, but if they referred to themself as a reptilian I'd be running for the hills.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Play nicely guys. I have cleaned this thread, but further argumentative and insulting behavior will result in the thread being closed.


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