# New Years Resolution...



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Get some of these 









so, I've decided that in the new year i'm going to get a build for some Excidobates mysteriosus, i'm laying the blame fully at cornish-j's and Stu's doors lol having seen J's little beauties and Stu having some up for sale. i see inspiration everywhere I drive , today was this 












so i've made this thread for a place for me to keep the parts of my brain which are oozing out and also get some advice and tips on these wonderful little fella's from you guys.

I'm currently thinking over the size of the viv, how many can be kept together stage. i was thinking of going for a 75(w)x40(d)x60(h). However, the problem facing that (at the moment) is doing the background etc a made viv comes with a lid which means it would be a pain to do, the other option is of course *eurgh* a 90x45x60 exo terra, which would need converting, cost more etc etc.....

i was also going to do this build on egg crate and was going to use egg crate to place a stump on and then simply lay root looking wood on the slanted sides that this elevated 'box' would have. doing this i could create the effect of the roots 'bulging' out of the top of the soil. i was also thinking of running my water area to one side of the viv (with possibly some of these roots overhanging) or maybe even create a little ditch in the middle of the viv, "an ancient stream that ran dry" lol 

also, the plan is:
*Get tank*.bug Stu.*Build structure*. *Plant.*bother Stu.*leave for months.*Turn up at J's house*.Resist temptation. Wait some more. Bother someone for some froggies*

anyways, i rabbled on, cant wait

José


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Way to go José.
You have until April then as there are always Mysties for sale then at the BAKS meet :2thumb:.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Don't touch the buggers with a barge pole Joe,bloody things you try trimming a viv with these in. All of them have been given a good slap for getting in the ruddy way:mf_dribble: Damn male running around calling his head off, I think he thought it was funny,my language that is,and carrying tads ,to boot.

Honestly it's been hilarious,bless 'em,it's almost a shame I've just about finished.Of all the frogs we keep these guys just seem to want to come have a chat and be my mates,I've been constantly ushering them away from what i'm trying to do,it really is perplexing just how much they seem to like the company of people. Shaz came up to see how I was doing,the minute she spoke they reacted,moving towards her. I can't imagine a day when we won't both adore these Joe,or want to keep. The history is horrible,but as a frog to keep,these are almost out there on their own , leastways for us anyway. Just so much fun!!

I guess it might be possible to build the background out side of a completed ENT mate,then pop into place,there is a reason for that cork surround,I would suppose not many get that as i always build out ,then pop the top on,but the method is ubiquitous

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

the missus really liked them when we went to J's and i must say having seen them climbing high and leaping about, i was transfixed

the only other thing i can think of is doing a cork mosaic, using many pieces and depths would give them a nice climbing frame, not quite the mountain side we've discussed

would love a pic or two of people's viv's to get a taster : victory:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Hows about cutting a piece of polystyrene to size and then applying foam and grout to it outside the viv to make your background and then drop it in and then mod it inside the viv so you can add your root structure and whatnot. Something simple like that photo with really minimal planting would look ace.

I'm not sure what I'll be picking up in April, I'll definitely come home with _something_, I just know I'll try not to stare at Stu and Mikes tables for too long. Mike almost managed to convince me to come home with some new fangled blue leucs last time


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

those were some pretty frogs.

my main problem is, i like to be head first in there aha


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Joe, if you want inspiration for rocky mountainside backgrounds check out Thrasops guide to natural snake enclosures. Obviously ignore all the planting and whanot but the principal for making the background will be identical. I also liked the rock effects James (Terrarium Supplies) did on his most recent build. Maybe have a look at those two for a couple of ideas?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

ronnyjodes said:


> Hows about making cutting a piece of polystyrene to size and then applying foam and grout to the outside the viv to make your background and then drop it in and then mod it inside the viv so you can add your root structure and whatnot. Something simple like that photo with really simple planting would look ace.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'll be picking up in April, I'll definitely come home with _something_, I just know I'll try not to stare at Stu and Mikes tables for too long. Mike almost managed to convince me to come home with some new fangled blue leucs last time


I never did nuffin,yet you left seeing spots,definitely Mike's fault,blue leucs,he does it to everyone.

Joe i'm so sad I took a pic of the mountain on dendrobase,I think(the one they live on) and worked from that,I was staring at it while working earlier,ok playing, tis ok I guess,rare I like something I've done :lol2: If it's ok I can look 6 months later and not give meself greif.

jonny give us a link mate,I want to see what they know,cheers 

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/878380-naturalistic-snake-enclosures-fake-walls.html

tis pretty cool, using polyfiller in a viv scares me mind. my problem with the pop in/attach builds is the fact you sometimes cant see everything, my first two builds i had issues with the bottom of the background. 1st was that there was expose rockoflex and expanding foam, 2nd was trying to shuffle net curtain under there. the main one for me is leaving bits where frogs could get trapped etc


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> jonny give us a link mate,I want to see what they know,cheers
> 
> Stu


Joe beat me to it: victory:. I don't know about Polyfiller but I'd be comfortable using grout in a viv to create the rock effect if it was sealed properly. I think there's definitely a few ideas to be taken from that thread and then modified for phib use.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Sealing fake rock has always worried me, i'd love to do the rock casts etc but getting the right one etc, the yanks have drylok which looks pretty good, i'll never go near plastidip ever again lol. i'll probably go down the rockoflex/elastopur route if anything


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Baumsteiger Pfeilgiftfrösche Excidobates mysteriosus


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

you'd need a massive viv, but it's an idea. most people seem to keep them in the kinda 'jungle' set ups


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Sealing fake rock has always worried me, i'd love to do the rock casts etc but getting the right one etc, the yanks have drylok which looks pretty good, i'll never go near plastidip ever again lol. i'll probably go down the rockoflex/elastopur route if anything


They always look shiny,Joe if sealed,just wrong.Trouble is mate phibs are so sensitive I'm wary of using other methods to what i know. It's a big deal mate fining out a build method that isn't going to nail the occupants
Are you aware of "vivarium works" see DB. In all honestly the method I've used is close,but I can't get the detail,or control I would like,that said,they feel like rock,it's always messed with me that once covered the poly feels cold to touch,like rock. But really, I know there is more to be had. It's doing it without putting a frog at risk,that messes with me the most. Hell one reads folks wary of polystyrene...endocrine distrupter...epoxy, I dunno mate.

Yeah most treat mysties to the usual style viv,but its difficult to asertain the merits of trying to build to a frog ,via the more general approach. Nudicollis is one big brom,primary habitat I suspect,cliff face possibly driven there by man,who knows,but flip that,I keep the ruffians,possibly the rock gives closer to that low humidity, they experience, maybe the cooler dry surface helps. But it has to be said,the frogs do very well for us,so if I built for mysties again,I know where i would go...exactly where i would go,same as the last,only better:lol2:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah i seen vivarium works, tho again, it's making it yourself thats half the fun/hassle lol i struggle with not holding the item infront of me


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Baumsteiger Pfeilgiftfrösche Excidobates mysteriosus
> 
> [URL=http://www.martin-flach.de/assets/images/autogen/a_IMG_0260-35.jpg]image
> 
> [/URL]


Got two opinions for this mate,mine UGG,Shaz's one word NO,she's said it best

Complete waste of viv volume with hill,little to no actual climbing frame,not enough floor left for microfauna/leaflitter little to no areas of denser planting for a frogs wanting cooler moist conditions and shade. Yegads I could gone on a while here,but Shaz hit that nail clean on the head...just NO!!!

Hmm that's why she is so damn good with animals,I debate ponder ,muse agonise, think,she just see's it!!

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

soundstounite said:


> Got two opinions for this mate,mine UGG,Shaz's one word NO,she's said it best
> 
> Complete waste of viv volume with hill,little to no actual climbing frame,not enough floor left for microfauna/leaflitter little to no areas of denser planting for a frogs wanting cooler moist conditions and shade. Yegads I could gone on a while here,but Shaz hit that nail clean on the head...just NO!!!
> 
> ...


what i thought was i liked the look of it, but cutting back how much it actually took up, see that red brom, say on the right hand side of that. also, personally i may be putting in little tubs of soil for those plants to sit in, and place for springs woods to hang out between cleaning poop up aha

obviously different depths etc across the board, but


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> what i thought was i liked the look of it, but cutting back how much it actually took up, see that red brom, say on the right hand side of that. also, personally i may be putting in little tubs of soil for those plants to sit in, and place for springs woods to hang out between cleaning poop up aha
> 
> obviously different depths etc across the board, but
> 
> image


That would be less of a waste of space, but I hope you'd plant it more extensively than the one in the photo- that one looks more like a lizard viv!

Scot has done some lovely ones with real stone- but they must weigh a ton!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

this is what it ended up like Ron










i'm looking to get a ton of climbers/trailers tumbling down it, some nice big broms and of course, ferns, because i love em. made the mistake of looking on bens jungle at plants, so many beautfiul ferns and climbers

if i buy a plant from a store, whats the best way to go about making it safe ? wash all soil, then repot for a bit before washing and adding to viv ?


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

Polly filler hmmm... I did look at this Joe but opted to go down the grout route as the brand I used was proven (say that loosely) to be phib safe. Without actually using rocks then I don't think we could ever assume that these so called artificial landscapes could be bullet proof.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> this is what it ended up like Ron
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Hah- now we're talking! :2thumb:

Ok, store-bought plants: yes, the best way is pretty much as you stay, but remember too allow time, even after repotting. This is because some of the chemicals used are _systemic_- they are absorbed by the plant and carried through it's systems, so it takes a while for them to leach out. A couple of weeks is usually enough.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> what i thought was i liked the look of it, but cutting back how much it actually took up, see that red brom, say on the right hand side of that. also, personally i may be putting in little tubs of soil for those plants to sit in, and place for springs woods to hang out between cleaning poop up aha
> 
> obviously different depths etc across the board, but
> 
> image


Better
Joe if one stops the background say 2-3" off the false floor,then one not only creates a cool hidey place,but also the subs,now almost occupy the whole floor..more subs=more microfauna. It's something I find my self doing more and more now,'erm since the penny dropped:whistling2:

I agree with Ron and James completely on their points too,I'd just add in on the plants I submerge them in water(rain) for a day or two,hopefully any snails,nems slugs bla bla will vacate during that period,very much a dart keeper thing.

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

one idea i toyed with was crate up side and back, then putting a kind of egg crate 'trough' maybe 10cm from the top of the viv, with disguised drainage tubes as rootswith wood also used to support it (the crate 'box would be slotted into the existing crate anyway) or i could simply have holes in the trough this would slightly mimic the kind of 'droplets' that would occur. the idea was to create a kind of overhanging ledge.

just idea's atm

the one for me atm is create that stepped wall with 'islands of greenery and hiding holes effect, will use 'trough' to create habitat for custodians (aka SHED LOADS of places for microfauna Stu). but i will get as much tree/climbing in as possible lol

btw, what are these guys like group wise, what would be your recommendations. like i said, deffo 60cm high, 40-45 deep and either 75-90 wide


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Joe they are about as laid back as they come ,I think,I'm ...WE are keeping 4..1:3 in the 2' cube,but I'm sure i could have more,I obviously don't know about male on male agression,but would be very surprised if it was an issue. Our 5 leucs are way more agressive I can countm one incident of real falling out,but hell,with 3 ladies all wanting to lay eggs at the same time,with the same chap,It's not hard to see them getting p*ssed off with each other:lol2:

Stu


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey Bud,

have you seen this?
The Precipice (Pic Heavy) - Dendroboard

I dont know if it's worth anything inspirationally. It has the use of eggcrate on back and sides it you could make it a bit more ''rocky'' and lose some of the cork. But the background looks large and sloping. It looks awesome once grown in and you can't see much cork anyway


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Liam Yule said:


> Hey Bud,
> 
> have you seen this?
> The Precipice (Pic Heavy) - Dendroboard
> ...


That looks really interesting- would love to see the grown-in version, though.


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Head to page 13 Ron. Might give you a better idea





Ron Magpie said:


> That looks really interesting- would love to see the grown-in version, though.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Liam Yule said:


> Head to page 13 Ron. Might give you a better idea


Thanks- the guy needs more overviews, though! Really impressive, from what I can see. :2thumb:


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> Joe they are about as laid back as they come ,I think,I'm ...WE are keeping 4..1:3 in the 2' cube,but I'm sure i could have more,I obviously don't know about male on male agression,but would be very surprised if it was an issue. Our 5 leucs are way more agressive I can countm one incident of real falling out,but hell,with 3 ladies all wanting to lay eggs at the same time,with the same chap,It's not hard to see them getting p*ssed off with each other:lol2:
> 
> Stu


I have a 3:1 combo and rarely see any forms of aggression, seen a bit of chasing a couple times which lasted around 5 seconds but apart from that .. nothing.

J


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

STuuuuuuuu, can you grab me a pic of your mysti viv as it is now ? please :flrt::flrt::flrt: lol

struggling to figure out how to incorporate area's of soil and planting without building an egg crate section, also dont want it to seem like a rock square lol, was looking the other day and notice there are encavements in embanked rock. the other struggle for me personally is trying to get some wood in there, only thing i can think of so far is either a stump in one corner sat in a boxed section of eggcrate holding soil (will also add 'levels'). other than that, you've got the 'tree' pertruding from the rock work

ramble ramble ramble


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Yeah sure bro,but bare with me , i'm working up to a new year fts round up viv wise.

Joe why not just pop a cork surround similar to a certain older guy does:whistling2: Then you can pop a background in and out as you build it,tis a proven method mate. This way you can build outside the viv , and it will always be possible to get it back in. building with top on or of ,is not hugely different I guess, just I have more access.

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yup, worked it out in my head to build it outside, main concern is a structure for getting the 'islands' on hte rockface and drainage for these etc


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Liam Yule said:


> Hey Bud,
> 
> have you seen this?
> The Precipice (Pic Heavy) - Dendroboard
> ...


 that is nice, and a huge list of really nice plants, I love the way it looks very very green until you get right into the delicate detail

outstanding


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Egg crate terraces, Unipac rocks.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

right, so after a few days of pondering etc, decided to move my Leucs viv (eurgh not looking forward to it) to where my temporary rearing viv is sat. this will leave me the space to put in a nice big tank. will 90x45x60 be overkill fella's ?


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Meefloaf said:


> right, so after a few days of pondering etc, decided to move my Leucs viv (eurgh not looking forward to it) to where my temporary rearing viv is sat. this will leave me the space to put in a nice big tank. will 90x45x60 be overkill fella's ?


Not In my opinion. That's the exact size my Leucs are in. 

I love BIG tanks!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

btw Glenn, i meant move my leucs and get that sized tank for a group of mysties


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Meefloaf said:


> btw Glenn, i meant move my leucs and get that sized tank for a group of mysties


Oops! I have no clue about Mysties except for what I've read here.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> Oops! I have no clue about Mysties except for what I've read here.


one day i'll get the leucs a viv to go with this one


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Meefloaf said:


> one day i'll get the leucs a viv to go with this one


The only downside is I get a TON of egg eating and have to be quick to pull! But, I don't want a million froglets either :lol2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> The only downside is I get a TON of egg eating and have to be quick to pull! But, I don't want a million froglets either :lol2:


there is that, i've decided that i bought two females (although bought as sexed pair), so i've not had to panic yet, i do however have three more rearing up, hoping for a male in there as i do want some calling going on


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Meefloaf said:


> there is that, i've decided that i bought two females (although bought as sexed pair), so i've not had to panic yet, i do however have three more rearing up, hoping for a male in there as i do want some calling going on


I'm way female heavy. 2.5 to be exact.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Right, next question

getting things where I am is a little nightmare, and finding a unit for the viv that is the correct size is just the beginning of such pains, i have however, found this and it is the PERFECT size. i also love Oranje and Blue. i will replace the chip board (top sheet will probably be marine ply coated in yacht varnish)

MAX2 900mm High Shelving Blue & Orange - Industrial Shelving from BiGDUG UK

i think, was it Callum had one of these and found it ugly ? i could always give it a nice wooden cover lol

Joe


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

I just bought two units from big dug - i got two of these...

Light Duty Work Bench - Value Workbench from BiGDUG UK

Does the job - i've just got them as temporary stroage for my tanks in the new house until i get some proper units made up.

I find them a little too industrial looking for my liking but they take the weight etc.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Cheers J, i don't mind the industrial look tbh, and if it does annoy me, i'll get the chopsaw out and make a frame for it, but it's orange and blue, so... aha

Also *whisper whisper* i'm going 100x60x60 :whistling2::2thumb:

aaaaaaaaaaaaand have booked some time off to pop up to dartfrog next month, hopefully he's open lol


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

hi joe, yes it was me who purchased one of those, but i got it in grey 

MAX2 900mm High Shelving Two Tone Grey - Industrial Shelving from BiGDUG UK

mine is this one Heavy Duty Shelving 350kg - Clearance from BiGDUG UK

another point in buying the huge tank was to fill the entire middle shelf, so it detracts from the ugliness of the shelving :lol2: i will be cladding it with melamine in the future.


i just saw that you like the orange and blue? after working for sainsburys for 3 years, i hadnt taken much notice of the warehouse racking, this is until i discovered i have the same brand racking in my bedroom as i do at work. except works is in the hideous orange and blue colouring. :lol2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

aha yeah we have it at work too

here's some vids i saw that grabbed my rock build mind, carving wise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpko5rxM9pI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4IZ7ApbC8k


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

been looking at these recently


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

it's almost perfect, but, i'd need to add lower level rocks to stop it looking a bit flat. they do sell singular rock ledges too, which i was even thinking of making the usual back ground and have these bursting out 

vivarium ledges for reptiles

price yes, but once i've bought a big sheet of celotex and all the elastopour stuff hmm


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I like it, but I am a sucker for a ready made background lol. 

Once it has broms and climber all over it it will look personal to you anyway, it also has the benefit that if for some reason you have to empty the viv to sterilise you haven't ruined the glass viv. 

My pennies worth anyway. 

What size are you getting from dale?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

100x60x60 i will be going for

they do made to size one's aswell, i may be cheeky and email them about my idea and see if there's owt they can do etc. my problem is, it looks cool, but does it have enough actual ledges


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice size viv then :no1:

Maybe they can do you something, maybe a cork mosaic would better suit your needs? Ledges haven't been my top thought with terribs, they don't climb. The fat b*stards :lol2:

How many leucs you got now bud?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i've got the two in the 60x45x60 atm, and got three little beauties i got from cornish J, they are so funny these three guys, they are growing out in a 45 cube

am i tempted to build the new one for these five to be in, yeah, i'm pretty tempted. Must say i love the mysties but have been a little swayed from them from a convo on another forum, Stu has seen it. I want a new breed of frog to look after i must say, really like the idea of getting some azzies too tbh.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Me personally, five leucs in the biggun. Then in the 60 get some pums, then the 45, maybe some mysties or some thumbs?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

they've got Netted leucs on dartfrog atm, to say im tempted is an understatement aha, love leucs.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

The netted form are amazing, but it is still the same beed lol. Or you should get all forms of leucs, you need chocolate ones.


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> they've got Netted leucs on dartfrog atm, to say im tempted is an understatement aha, love leucs.


I think Adam has just snagged some netted leucs. The git.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

ronnyjodes said:


> I think Adam has just snagged some netted leucs. The git.


Probably got them through his FB connections...:whistling2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

ronnyjodes said:


> I think Adam has just snagged some netted leucs. The git.


Nope, not netted.  Not normal ones either. : victory:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

intrigued


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

If it is green, green legged or chocolate I call dibs on offspring :lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Sorry folks, you're going to have to wait for Adam to reveal all, it's only fair after all.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

aha, well hopefully son Ade, he's the reason i've got this Leuc addiction


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

He's mega busy today, probably why he hasn't said anything yet.: victory:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

you got any suggestions for me Ade ? the missus thinks i should keep my Leucs to their viv i've got after spending alot of time on it and getting it looking great, i do agree with her. Basically i want something i could have in a large group

I am looking forward to doing a large build i must say, and whilst i did really want mysties a conversation over their gene pool had me worried. this came about because i woulkd like to get a large group, i'd need to get say three different suppliers of any frog i'd have in there and keep them seperate for a few months etc


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> Sorry folks, you're going to have to wait for Adam to reveal all, it's only fair after all.


I could have sworn he said netted last time I spoke to him. I'll prod him at the next meeting as to what they were


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

nah, he's revealing them on a private facebook group


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> you got any suggestions for me Ade ? the missus thinks i should keep my Leucs to their viv i've got after spending alot of time on it and getting it looking great, i do agree with her. Basically i want something i could have in a large group
> 
> I am looking forward to doing a large build i must say, and whilst i did really want mysties a conversation over their gene pool had me worried. this came about because i woulkd like to get a large group, i'd need to get say three different suppliers of any frog i'd have in there and keep them seperate for a few months etc


How about auratus Joe? I suppose it depends on what you mean by "large group" I suppose. I have a trio in my 45 cube, if you're going for as big a viv as I remember you mentioning then you could potentially go for 6 or 7. I spoke to somebody a while back who had a group of 8 or 9 (I think)set up on a 2 males per female basis and he said it worked well. My little group haven't given me much to go on as far as territorial disputes and mooch around their setup happily so I can't give you much to go on there. Have a word with Stu although I don't know how many he keeps in his groups but he's definitely worth having his brains picked on the matter, as is Ade but I think he runs trios too. I definitely think you're ready to go for the "oh crap, I haven't seen my frogs in months" challenge . Plus, you'd have no trouble getting multiple frogs from multiple breeders and having several potential bloodlines on the go.


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> nah, he's revealing them on a private facebook group


I'm going to remember to give you a slap at the April meeting


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I went with Adam to get them, so I can say with certainty they're not netted leucs that he got. :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Joe, Auratus are certainly one option, but to be honest you will probably never see them.

I'd say think a little differently, go for one of the ameerega, phyllobates vittatus, or even dendrobates truncatus. Ameerega trivittatus are very nice, and large, frogs for example. I have a colony of ameerega bassieri Sisa, but I will caution that these are supposedly shy. Mine sit watching me constantly, and are anything but shy, but that could just be luck I guess. :lol2: They're awesome in a group though, and certainly different.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Adam just sent me a photo of one of his new frogs. Very nice.:flrt:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

are they spotted leucs ?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

what are imitators like ?

Ranitomeya imitator intermedius and varadero's look cool


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Give me a minute and all will be revealed. Please excuse the rubbish iPhone photos.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i'm like a fat kid on his birthday, i want me some cake lol


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Here you go, Cerro Autana aka blue foot Leucs.


The pictures don't do them justice and Ade will agree. In reality the stripes are line green with a blue tinge and feet are very blue. They are supposed to be a sexed pair but only time will tell. They are still very nervous at the moment.

Adam


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Oh, now I remember! They're stunning pal, congrats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:

been looking at these today aha, very lovely frogs, hope they are a sexed pair Adam, for you and future BAKS meetings lol


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Cheers. I have been waiting along time for some of these and they are even prettier than I remembered.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Amazing, I went to my local pet shop today and they had some in. I couldn't see them no matter how hard I leuced (hahah). 

Seriously, I would be interested in any offspring you may have in the future. But for now, I hope they are good for you and you enjoy them :2thumb:


Nice one :no1:

To joe


Have a look for a member called tomcannon, he makes fake rock hides for reptiles. He made my leopard gecko a couple of hides, they look great. Maybe give him a message with your idea and pictures and he might be able to do something for you. He will have to seal it correctly of course. But he is a really nice guy with some talent.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

What to say,god there's loads here,first up tell me before the slap Jon,that might be proper funny:blush: I'll get some one with camera skills for that:2thumb:

Joe,is it specifically a small gene pool that is bothering you, re: mysties.

Well that's what I get ,so I'll run with that:

Honestly,I think some auratus come from smaller more inbred gene pools, do I suspect Azeureus here might be in a similar boat,possibly worse :might there be a reason beyond my lady wanting specific(pretty in her eyes) frogs for me taking so long to get the frogs she wanted:whistling2:

Joe for sure mysties for some folks might be tricky,to breed,but like any frog one has to try as best we can to adapt our keeping methods to suit said frog in question. But honestly I find them very robust easy to keep tads alive easy to rear froglets and lets face it their interaction with us,completely enchanting.I wish you were close mate,seeing them with us is something you really need to see..

Joe way before we had frogs I had come the conclusion that I tried to make elsewhere,we have no records here,does buying from 3 separate breeders,here mean one would buy unrelated frogs,with no site data no records of just where they come from no sheet saying the lineage.Nah mate every thing is complete best guess. 

I guess now I'm coming to the conclusion that the only way we will stop things getting worse,is by guys taking it on them selves to keep more than one tank of unrelated individuals. If we as a hobby are to move forward,that is how it will happen,or two close mates actually working at it together. Say I buy one set of WC or F1 frogs,you buy another(unrelated) set,when we sell youngsters we both team up to provide the newer guy with unrelated frogs. 

That is the big chance we have with WC pums,besides all the reservations of what is REALLY happening in Panama. But the team up without two guys living close,is fraught with pitfalls,so basically one guy with more than one tank,for me, is an ideal situation.Naturally that is hard on the individual,he want's to keep different morphs species like everyone else!!

Could I find you 3 breeders here of superblue auratus, micro spot,columbian(maybe an exception with our mate Ivan beavering away),blue,even green and black,that I could confirm are all unrelated,and better, actually the same morph,not a chance. I know of at least two blue and black auratus morphs, one completely gone from the wild,a mate in the states is trying to save them. But have you me or anyone ever seen any separation here of blue and black auratus?

Jon, don't think i'm singling you're auratus post and kind words :notworthy:and throwing it back at ya,I'm not mate,I adore them I urge folks to keep them,but in the words of one Mr Mark Pepper,auratus are a complete mess as far as any kind of data goes. I'm trying to illustrate for Joe what a complete :censor: mess we are in as far as records go. Then trying to get over that it's not our fault,but we sure as hell can do something about it with the "new" frogs that come in.I don't think that really affects the guy that just wants a few darts,but it does affect a guy pondering our hobby and conservation,our impact on wild frogs and how we as a hobby go about not constantly demanding more from the wild.


So Joe get the frogs you want, if it's mysties so be it,it its Ameegra ace,but have your eyes open on what YOU want to achieve 

Joe our hobby is a complete mess for those that would like to buy unrelated frogs to breed from, pretty much on any species I guess,apart from those very very close to WC. We are basically a hobby of pet keepers and I have no probs with that for the record,but if we want to go further,then records, record keeping will be our friend.

There is a complete big picture here,ahh but getting it across and making folks ponder............. and then changing all this.

3 years in, same as 3/4/5 years back,but god enjoy those frogs guys

It's kinda hard when you know our hobby probably have more than one morph/species that is almost all but extinct in the wild,yet we still have no records and we haven't yet grasped this massive picture.

Joe this post is long and hard for me when I'm completely knackered,but as one of only 65 whom really got Teseros,making you think is worth everything I can throw at you, I want you to keep the frogs YOU want mate,nowt more,I love mysties but you should not keep because I love,you have to love a frog you are gonna keep for ten maybe more years,get as always what appeals to YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Cheers Stu, i've been waiting for you since the post lol i knew you'd get it and be able to explain.

I love the mysties, J's were so bloody lovely, they really got me thinking about them and building them a lovely big build, the gene pool swerved me a bit and i worried about not entirely the gene pool being weak, but about getting frogs from a weakened breeding exercise. I shall get them from people i know and trust (although yours and j's are related no less lol), but the frogs are not for now, i've got a few months of building and growing in to get on with aha

Thank you very much Stu for reassurance, the frogs suggested i didnt like the look of tbh, maybe the auratus, and the one's I posted the imitators (orange frogs mmm). But i really love the idea of mysties. again thank you

Joe

p.s i'm off dartfrog in febuary, is kidderminster alright ? hotel i'm looking at is pretty much on edge of town, good reviews on tripadvisor like, going to be there maybe two days


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Cheers Stu, i've been waiting for you since the post lol i knew you'd get it and be able to explain.
> 
> I love the mysties, J's were so bloody lovely, they really got me thinking about them and building them a lovely big build, the gene pool swerved me a bit and i worried about not entirely the gene pool being weak, but about getting frogs from a weakened breeding exercise. I shall get them from people i know and trust (although yours and j's are related no less lol), but the frogs are not for now, i've got a few months of building and growing in to get on with aha
> 
> ...


Joe if you are going to stay overnight there are far nicer places Kidderminster. Dartfrog is closer to a beautiful little village called Bewdley and I am sure you will find a nice hotel there. When you go let me know and perhaps we can meet up. Ade and I know a cracking chippy we use on all our Dartfrog excursions.

Adam


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

fatlad69 said:


> Joe if you are going to stay overnight there are far nicer places Kidderminster. Dartfrog is closer to a beautiful little village called Bewdley and I am sure you will find a nice hotel there. When you go let me know and perhaps we can meet up. Ade and I know a cracking chippy we use on all our Dartfrog excursions.
> 
> Adam


that chip shop has been mentioned a few times on facebook lol

the missus suggested we go up friday 14th, valentines day:gasp: we looking at travelling up thursday and staying till saturday


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Bewdley is defo the place to stay if you are after a bit of romance. It's a village right on the river Severn.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> Bewdley is defo the place to stay if you are after a bit of romance. It's a village right on the river Severn.


My family lived in Bewdly for a while- before I was born, though!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron, just how far are your families seeds sown fella


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## iwantacrestie (Feb 18, 2012)

I didn't realise how isolated Dartfrog was until i went to get my salamander last year when we were hit by that bad snow fall. Driving from Evesham to Dartfrog in a 10year old yaris in snow that was higher than the car for most of the journey is not recommended :lol2: 
- John


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ya ain't popping by,W T F ,gutted :gasp:

Lmao Joe,I had to running on empty,needed a smile:Na_Na_Na_Na:

But really you should see here, I think it might help with what you are trying to do,beyond that don't know much about kiddi other than it's good to be out the other side
But I'd say that about any wabbit warren wouldn't I:whistling2:

We got diverted through Bewdley, tis a more pleasant wabbit warren,I concur with my learned mate,got a feeling that you need to get in that bloody chippy before Adam and Ade though or the alternative might be sticking a rod over the river:gasp: and digging your own spuds


Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i do like a good chippy, we have one in falmouth and when i ask "can aa hav a breadcake wi tha" they know what i mean, bradford folk. although try asking em for a fish butty, they dont have a clue

Booked a hotel between kiddi and bewdley, more bewdley side and out in the middle of nowhere lol

well Stu, if you are free whilst i'm in the area i will definitely pop in should the opportunity arise, you know i'm there aha 

Joe


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Ron, just how far are your families seeds sown fella


I know- they bloody got everywhere! :gasp:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Ya ain't popping by,W T F ,gutted :gasp:
> 
> Lmao Joe,I had to running on empty,needed a smile:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> ...


We pop in every time we go to Dartfrog bud, it's an integral part of the Dartfrog road trip. :lol2: We usually head over, with Mike in tow, the afternoon before BAKS if you ever want to bump into us for certain.: victory: It's become a part of the pre-BAKS meet up. September we grabbed some chips in catchems end and took them and ate them at a picnic table on the edge of the Wyre forest. :lol2: Was a gorgeous afternoon to be gobbling yummy chips down whilst talking frogs.:2thumb: I wouldn't want to stop on that car park in the evening though, I can imagine it gets used by a lot of "evening dog walkers" if you know what I mean. :whistling2:

Whatever you do though, don't go to the McDonalds in Kidderminster! You have to actually PAY to park on the car park by it, which is to be blunt crazy!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

the rockwork here has got my mind working 90g Peruvian Eroded Streamside - Dendroboard


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

still wanting to do casting and molding but cannot find a decent source to get my head round it and products to use etc


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> the rockwork here has got my mind working 90g Peruvian Eroded Streamside - Dendroboard
> 
> image
> 
> image


The Dendroboard 'floating rock' design makes me think of Avatar! :lol2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> The Dendroboard 'floating rock' design makes me think of Avatar! :lol2:


PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT sod avatar, Paintings « Roger Dean


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

right, i've had this 'ere idea see










what i was thinking was having it on the corner of the right and have rock work on the background leading up to the ledge, will use eggcrate on back and right side as part of scaffolding, will also use 'Roots' to help support it also. reckon it'd work ?

im also 90% going glass bottom


and this from above


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT sod avatar, Paintings « Roger Dean


Lol. I've been a Science Fiction fan for many years! :2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> Lol. I've been a Science Fiction fan for many years! :2thumb:


and i've been into prog rock since i was born lol#

Yes - Roundabout - YouTube


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Time to appreciate the Secret Benefits to society of both..:2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> still wanting to do casting and molding but cannot find a decent source to get my head round it and products to use etc


This has always fascinated me too Joe,but as of yet,although my searches have been brief i'm in the same boat.What we need is some form of quick drying silicone I guess,the products are there,seem them used for set building on movies,but whether they would be cost effective for us,who knows.I presume you are aware of vivariumworks stateside Joe? i'm pretty sure that is how he goes about all this

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah spoken to him, would love some of his rocks, but P&P a bit, eek, did wonder if i got my uncle to send it to me it might be cheaper.

Stu, at work we have a huge Aechmea, will sort a piccie


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

they'll cost me 9.50, apologies for the terrible shake lol











*i'm tempted by Auratus Bronze*


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Just out of interest what was the p&p , I am tempted by some rocks and maybe we could split postage as long as it isn't ridiculous.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i never asked, i will tho



> With what you are looking to do, casting will be your best bet unless you have good sculpting abilities. I say this mostly because you want the focus of the tank to be the rock work, rather than the rocks being just an accent, or is a substrate of sorts to be grown/covered over so the texture and realism isn't a necessity. If you know what you want, and you want it to look real, molding/casting is the only way to go without being/hiring a sculptor.
> 
> However, with molding and casting you'll need to be ok with finding the rocks you want to replicate, then mold them in the field, bring the mold back home, and cast into it. Either in the tank or outside it. It's a bit more work than spraying some foam and carving it, but it actually takes much less time overall. In one weekend I can have an entire background, regardless of size, molded, casted, cured, and ready for plants/animals. I'll be doing this with two large builds sometime in the spring to showcase this point.
> 
> The principle back-draw of molding/casting is the cost and that you have to either get some rocks and pile them up to make a model, OR you have to go find them and make it onsite. I prefer the latter as it makes for a fun hobby, and I like hiking about. I do have some molding/casting kits I've been working on for a while now that could help with this, but as I'm sure you've imagined, shipping can be a bit of an issue as I'm stateside. I'm not too familiar with the options you have on your side of the pond, but I know guys do it out there. Too many badass backgrounds made in Germany and Denmark to have not been molded.


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm just about to order about 500 dollars worth from Scott (vivariumworks) - postage is looking like 60-80gbp.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Quite a lot,

I think I have worked out how he does it and the materials used. 

Hmmm.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Cornish-J said:


> I'm just about to order about 500 dollars worth from Scott (vivariumworks) - postage is looking like 60-80gbp.


Not got your number on new phone j, could I put a few on amd chip on for p&p


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

pm'd you my number mate - he's suggesting that my order is going to fill up the maximum size box he can use as i'm ordering that limestone background which is massive, i'll ask the question though - just pm me what you want and i'll ask him if he can fit it in.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Prompt Natural Cement - 25kg

This into a silicone rubber mold of a rock with some concrete colouring should be safe.


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

plasma234 said:


> Prompt Natural Cement - 25kg
> 
> This into a silicone rubber mold of a rock with some concrete colouring should be safe.


I toyed with something similar a while back - made a mould of a rock using Kerr Extrude medium, pasted lime mortar into it to about 1cm thick and then once dried filled it with foam. Bit of algae and moss on there - job done. Looked pretty decent but unfortunately I'm fundamentally too lazy to spend much time on these things so never took it any further! Moulds can be used over and over.

Nick


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

In terms of what vivarium works uses. I belive it might be polyurethane cement. 

Gorilla glue is a polyurethane glue, and the cement is 100% waterproof, completely inert and has high resistance to chemicals, heat and impact. It is used to line food storage tanks for example. The problem I have is purchasing it for home use. As it is a flooring/coating it is only installed by contractors, I might contact one and see if they would send me a small sample. If I get the decorative "stone carpet" maybe I can get the same results. 
All depends on price really.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I think I may have over thought this :lol2:

Probably is just this with added pigment Fast Cast Polyurethane Casting Resin - Easy Composites

I will stop posting everything I find now 

Sorry Joe :flrt:


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

I was going to say it sounds like what you want is a polyurethane reinforced screeding product - like they use for the floors in workshops/sports halls etc. Looks like what you have found would do though.

Nick


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

post away callum, love the info


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I have spent time watching some of the most boring videos on how make silicone rubber moulds of rocks and then how to then cast them using concrete and how to pigment it. I have read tutorials from people making house cladding to railway scenery and to warhammer. And I am pretty sure I have worked out how he does it. 
When I get paid I will buy all of the materials, enough to make 3 or 4 LARGE rocks, go rock hunting and do some experimenting. It it all completely aquarium safe stuff, doesnt need painting or sealing, and will be moulds of real rocks and will have flat backs. Sounds familiar? 

It is a few weeks before I get paid, so I will update you all then.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

lol get on it fella, seen on that link you posted they do a kit for 50 quid


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Urgh I got tempted and ordered some stuff. I have no self control.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

lol good lad


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I made my first mold yesterday. Bloody hell was it messy, but hopefully you only need to make a mould once. I think I will do it in a different way next time. At the moment I am brushing the silicone rubber on, then waiting 45 mins then doing a second layer and then placing a mesh over the mould and then a 3rd thick layer. 
To improve this and make it less messy, I will place the subject into a container, then just pour the silicone rubber into the container. It will use up a lot more silicone rubber, but I won't have to use a brush every time and bin it, and the rubber gloves I use every time I put a layer on. It should also make a better mould. I can also pour the silicone rubber up to a point and stop, which would give a flat back rock. 

It says to leave a mould for a week before casting into it. I have chosen a particularly boring rock to start with, I will post results and pictures of the end result. Do not be surprised if it ends up being a black lump of shite lol.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cool man, fingers crossed


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

black lump of shite made me literally laugh out loud. Hope it turns out well!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Liam Yule said:


> black lump of shite made me literally laugh out loud. Hope it turns out well!


the words he doth not mix eh lol


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