# DWA without a DWAL



## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Hi before people start flaming me I'm not doing this!

Im just so surprised about people that you hear about that keep DWA without the license, what are the consequences if your found out? I know that in america in some states that you need a license you can get the animal(s) confiscated, 1k fine and possibly a year in prison but what's the deal in the UK? 

Thanks

Ismail


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

all depends really, its not an imprisonable offence though, although someone got caught a couple of years ago and got his animals confiscated a £1500 fine and banned from keeping DWA animals for 10 years, so if your really genuine and you want to keep these animals over the long term its not really worth it.


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Did he have lost or just a few? Im sure the species would affect it as well wouldnt it


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Not really. that would be like somebody getting done for shooting somebody, and the punishment being decided on if it was a .22 pistol or a 50 cal. You keep DWA it matters not what you have really. there are a couple of people deing done at the moment.


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## GJUK (Feb 13, 2010)

I think that if you keep a venomous snake without DWA, you've either got bigger balls than I have, or you've got a very small brain. I'm sure most people know of someone that kept a lil' critter without DWAL.

Some justify it due to the costs of the DWAL. Others because they don't want the council to be 'involved'. I don't agree with the high costs but...

If you want an easy life, get a licence.


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Very good point there, i find it hard to see where people get them from. Do they import them? since lots of people wouldn't do it on a forum since they would be caught out and people would fine out.


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## GJUK (Feb 13, 2010)

reptismail said:


> Very good point there, i find it hard to see where people get them from. Do they import them? since lots of people wouldn't do it on a forum since they would be caught out and people would fine out.


Lots of people in the hobby with pet shop licences/DWAL will sell (cash in hand) to people without DWAL's. I say lots, I know some will. Lots might be the wrong term.

You can also drive to Hamm, buy your king cobra (I'm hoping that the guy posting about keeping one for a first DWA will do this) and then take it home with you, no DWAL needing to have been shown to the seller.

Don't do that though. Get a PSL/DWAL.

Jon


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Find it quite unbelievable but i suppose lots of people really are against the DWAL.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

i get having to have a licence for a venemous snake but i do feel that maybe summint like an asian leopard cat is a bit silly when summint like a racoon isnt on the list the damage a racoon could do to a child is as bad if not worse that a pet cat which is comparable to a cobra and a cat one u might get stitches other ul end up in a box 6ft under sorry rambling on my question is are they differnt prices depending on what ur getting and does the inpact to the enviroment come into it like a cobra getting out would prob die in our winter where a cat of that caliber would kill every song bird mouse rat etc in the immediate area


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

I guess we'll never really know but.. from things I've heard over the years, many from what I would consider reliable sources and one or two trusted. I think most people would be surprised at how many DWA are secretly kept without a license.


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## Cutter (Dec 12, 2010)

mikeyb said:


> i get having to have a licence for a venemous snake but i do feel that maybe summint like an asian leopard cat is a bit silly when summint like a racoon isnt on the list the damage a racoon could do to a child is as bad if not worse that a pet cat which is comparable to a cobra and a cat one u might get stitches other ul end up in a box 6ft under sorry rambling on my question is are they differnt prices depending on what ur getting and does the inpact to the enviroment come into it like a cobra getting out would prob die in our winter where a cat of that caliber would kill every song bird mouse rat etc in the immediate area


As far as I know the prices are purely down to where you live.
For example, for a DWA license it might cost £99 here, yet where you live, it could cost £150. Nos specific reaosn, it is just up to the council.
Not only that, but you have to be approved. You pay a fee for council member to come out with his clipboard, with a checklist, and if you miss one thing (such as, one of the vivs doesn;t have a viv lock on, that you intend to keep a DWA in) then you fail, and you have to put the viv lock on, and the pay another fee, to get him back out, and then your DWAL on top of that.

So it's different councils, different areas. I presume it;s down to ratio of how many people in that council area has a DWA, i suppose if there are more, the fee is lessened, I am not sure.

It's :censor: ridiculous.

Also, if I am correct, Racoons very recently were going to be put on the DWA list, but that has been retracted. Luckily skunks aren;t on it. :lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

racoons were recently taken off the list.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Cutter said:


> As far as I know the prices are purely down to where you live.
> For example, for a DWA license it might cost £99 here, yet where you live, it could cost £150. Nos specific reaosn, it is just up to the council.
> Not only that, but you have to be approved. You pay a fee for council member to come out with his clipboard, with a checklist, and if you miss one thing (such as, one of the vivs doesn;t have a viv lock on, that you intend to keep a DWA in) then you fail, and you have to put the viv lock on, and the pay another fee, to get him back out, and then your DWAL on top of that.
> 
> ...


You dont have to pay for somebody from the council to come out to you every visit its part of there job and is included within the fee. Also you forgot to mention Vet visits and god knows what else..........In fact this post is full og inacurate information and if i was the OP dusregard anything in this thread. Might sound harsh but all the info the guy need is in the sticky on this section.
You are not sure..........thats what you said in your post so why post?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

leecb0 said:


> You dont have to pay for somebody from the council to come out to you every visit its part of there job and is included within the fee. Also you forgot to mention Vet visits and god knows what else..........In fact this post is full og inacurate information and if i was the OP dusregard anything in this thread. Might sound harsh but all the info the guy need is in the sticky on this section.
> You are not sure..........thats what you said in your post so why post?



Lee,

This is the biggest problem with the DWA section on this forum.

threads which are almost identical to past/recent ones, very poor answers, very poor poor questions, really bad English and so on.

It gets to the point you wonder if its worth posting and as we both know that is the reason why many experienced hot herpers avoid it!

Graeme


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Sad but true Graeme.


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

Well are english adders on the DWA list? What would happen if you got caught with an English adder as a pet? ( I do not inted to do this by the way ) just a question as they are venomous and if you live down south i sopose you can just go and catch one?


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

ChopChop said:


> Well are english adders on the DWA list? What would happen if you got caught with an English adder as a pet? ( I do not inted to do this by the way ) just a question as they are venomous and if you live down south i sopose you can just go and catch one?


They're a front fanged venomous snake so yes, they're included on the DWA list.


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

terciopelo_dave said:


> They're a front fanged venomous snake so yes, they're included on the DWA list.


That's what i mean so what would the punishment be? I'm assuming they are protected tho so you would possibly be done for that i guess.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

ChopChop said:


> That's what i mean so what would the punishment be? I'm assuming they are protected tho so you would possibly be done for that i guess.


They're protected from being injured or killed, not collected.
The punishment would be exactly the same as what you'd get for keeping any DWA listed species without a licence. There's no allowance for it being a native species. It's a viper. End of.


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## Cutter (Dec 12, 2010)

leecb0 said:


> You dont have to pay for somebody from the council to come out to you every visit its part of there job and is included within the fee. Also you forgot to mention Vet visits and god knows what else..........In fact this post is full og inacurate information and if i was the OP dusregard anything in this thread. Might sound harsh but all the info the guy need is in the sticky on this section.
> You are not sure..........thats what you said in your post so why post?


:whistling2:

The reason I posted, and I put that I was "not sure" was so that some king person could come a long and say "Sorry, you got that wrong" in as polite manner, and not so antagonistic.

This was what I was told by a friend here, in Lincoln. So I am passing information on, I did not make it up, nor did I fabricate it. This was what I was told by a friend who had to apply for one, that there is a fee charged for them coming out.

You don't need to be so flighty just because someone has got something wrong. We can't all be right.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Cutter said:


> :whistling2:
> 
> The reason I posted, and I put that I was "not sure" was so that some king person could come a long and say "Sorry, you got that wrong" in as polite manner, and not so antagonistic.
> 
> ...


Ignorance is not a get our of jail card in law!

At the end of the day there is more than enough info on the web to make sure you get it right


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## Cutter (Dec 12, 2010)

slippery42 said:


> Ignorance is not a get our of jail card in law!
> 
> At the end of the day there is more than enough info on the web to make sure you get it right


I was not the one who asked the question, I was merely saying what I thought, it is there choice whether they wish to pursue it further and research.

Yes I may have been wrong, but you learn from mistakes.

Looks like another person got thier knickers in a twist because someone doesn't know all the facts.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

terciopelo_dave said:


> They're protected from being injured or killed, not collected.
> The punishment would be exactly the same as what you'd get for keeping any DWA listed species without a licence. There's no allowance for it being a native species. It's a viper. End of.


i thought it was illegal to take any protected species out of there wild habitat unless its to relocate them or for medical reasons like its been run over etc .. Otherwise seems a bit silly though as i can put summint an adder can live in in my back garden and actively encourage them to live there where the public can enter or walk past etc and thats fine. But if i take it indoors if i was an expirienced snake handler where it would be less of a danger to the public (which is one of the things a dwa is for) i need a dwa licence seems with our only native venemous species theres alot of indiscrepencies ???


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Cutter said:


> I was not the one who asked the question, I was merely saying what I thought, it is there choice whether they wish to pursue it further and research.
> 
> Yes I may have been wrong, but you learn from mistakes.
> 
> Looks like another person got thier knickers in a twist because someone doesn't know all the facts.


Ok but if i dont know the true answer to something. And im not talking about "I heard it from someone, who heard that so and so....." Here we like to deal with facts gained by actual experience. This is not a section about corn snakes its about Laws and regulations and about animals that kill people DEAD........ you want to give out unshure information crack on but dont do it when if somebody takes your advice it has serious consiquenses......Its nothing to do with getting nickers in a twist, we are talking about DANGEROUS WILD ANIMALS........


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Venomous snakes are not pets!

Period!


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## Stacey010884 (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm curious. Why is it when people ask about the repercussions of someone caught with a DWA without a licence it's regarding the person, not about what happens to the animals in question?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Usually because its somebody who wants to keep them and they really shouldnt because they havent the skill knowledge or ability to get a licence, and they want to get one so they can impress there mates, so its a good idea to find out how much they will be find and how long they will be band from ever keeping animals before they make the step.

Or i could just be cynical of course


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

Anybody found guilty of keeping an animal covered by the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 without a licence to do so or anybody found guilty of failing to comply with any licence condition shall be subject to a fine not exceeding £2,000. Any person found guilty of obstructing or delaying an Inspector or Authorised Veterinary Practitioner or Veterinary Surgeon shall be subject to a fine not exceeding £2,000. Where a person keeps an animal without a licence or where a person fails to comply with a licence condition, Inspectors from the Council may seize the animal and may either retain it or have it destroyed or disposed of (to a zoo or elsewhere) without compensation to the owner. Where the Council incurs any expense in seizing, retaining or disposing of an animal then the person who was the keeper of the animal shall be liable for those costs.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ChopChop said:


> Well are english adders on the DWA list? What would happen if you got caught with an English adder as a pet? ( I do not inted to do this by the way ) just a question as they are venomous and if you live down south i sopose you can just go and catch one?


Adder _Vipera berus_....... Venomous so DWA.... Not a pet and not suitable for keeping in captivity!


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> Adder _Vipera berus_....... Venomous so DWA.... Not a pet and not suitable for keeping in captivity!


why's does that mean its not suitable for captivity? Some body must keep/breed English adders? that's like living in America and sombody asking the question what will happen if i go out and catch a rattle snake?...then you saying its venomous and not suitable to be kept in captivty! When clearly they are kept in captivity? Once agen I do not intend to keep an adder just curious.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

From what I understand, ChopChop, wild-caught _Vipera berus_ can be difficult to acclimate and get feeding. When I've talked to experienced keepers about _Vipera _species it's generally been suggested that if we wanted to keep them, starting with something like _V. ammodytes_ would be less difficult in terms of just keeping the animal alive.


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## xx-SAVANNAH-xx (Jan 9, 2010)

Cutter said:


> As far as I know the prices are purely down to where you live.
> For example, for a DWA license it might cost £99 here, yet where you live, it could cost £150. Nos specific reaosn, it is just up to the council.
> Not only that, but you have to be approved. You pay a fee for council member to come out with his clipboard, with a checklist, and if you miss one thing (such as, one of the vivs doesn;t have a viv lock on, that you intend to keep a DWA in) then you fail, and you have to put the viv lock on, and the pay another fee, to get him back out, and then your DWAL on top of that.
> 
> ...


its all a load of crap, heritage farm nurseries in wallington have no lock on there crocodile viv i reported them to the council and still its the same it really p:censor: me off that a legit company can get away with it and if i was caught id be fined and banned from keeping animals.


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

From what i know adders can be a pain in the arse to keep if they are WC but ive been told by a certain some one that they fed for him when he had a female and a male together


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

just wondering if you was to encourage adders to live in your garden and by some breif miracle u got one to feed of tongs taking mice etc etc could u be prosecuted or similar by the council for having no dwa licence??


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> From what I understand, ChopChop, wild-caught _Vipera berus_ can be difficult to acclimate and get feeding. When I've talked to experienced keepers about _Vipera _species it's generally been suggested that if we wanted to keep them, starting with something like _V. ammodytes_ would be less difficult in terms of just keeping the animal alive.


Thanks I understand now and takin an animal from the wild is not a good idea in my mind anyways, I want to keep venomous one day and the English adder won't be at the top of my list haha,

Cheers
Seb


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ChopChop said:


> Thanks I understand now and takin an animal from the wild is not a good idea in my mind anyways, I want to keep venomous one day and the English adder won't be at the top of my list haha,
> 
> Cheers
> Seb


Why do you call them English adder?


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> Why do you call them English adder?


Ok...adders!!!


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## ChopChop (Mar 18, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> Why do you call them English adder?


Ok...Just adders then!!!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

mikeyb said:


> just wondering if you was to encourage adders to live in your garden and by some breif miracle u got one to feed of tongs taking mice etc etc could u be prosecuted or similar by the council for having no dwa licence??


 
Yes they will send round Natural England's S.W.A.T. Team to put a cap in your ass.

Did you really ask that question? Honestly think about what you just said, then go and have a word with yourself:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

mikeyb said:


> i thought it was illegal to take any protected species out of there wild habitat unless its to relocate them or for medical reasons like its been run over etc .. Otherwise seems a bit silly though as i can put summint an adder can live in in my back garden and actively encourage them to live there where the public can enter or walk past etc and thats fine. But if i take it indoors if i was an expirienced snake handler where it would be less of a danger to the public (which is one of the things a dwa is for) i need a dwa licence seems with our only native venemous species theres alot of indiscrepencies ???


Firstly, what you can and can't do with a protected species depends on what degree of protection it is afforded. With adders, like I said, they are protected from being intentionally harmed. Nothing more. Sadly this protection doesn't stop people killing them, especially in the wake of a media frenzy following a young girl sustaining a severe bite.
Secondly, if you deliberately put a species listed on the DWA schedule onto your property, be it in the garden or otherwise, you require a license. If an adder arrived in your garden of its own volition, that's up to the snake, but if you then interact with the animal in such a way that you encourage or force it to stay, then it could quite easily be argued that you are "keeping" it and would require a license.
Thirdly, why wouldn't you need a license for an adder? It's a viper, it's capable of causing a serious bite, and like all other vipers it is included in the DWAA. The fact that it's a native species is utterly irrelevent. Why should you only need a license for exotic species? If you lived in Florida you wouldn't consider Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnakes exotic, but you'd still need a permit if you wished to legally keep one.
Finally, from all the hypothetical situations you're proposing about adders just turning up at your home, it is abundantly clear you want one and are looking for loopholes to give you carte blanche to go out and get one. Please don't insult my intelligence by denying it. Just find a population local to you, go out and observe them, and come home again without one. It will be far better for all parties.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

i live in cornwall the local population tends to be at the end of my old dears garden lol


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