# Dumbo Mice!



## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

we breed mice and were really suprised when we looked in the cage to find a dumbo rex mouse as we have never seen one before. Does anyone else have these on this forum?


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Again, adorable...:flrt:


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't believe mice come in dumbo - the show lines all have Sky TV receivers for ears


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## MViper (Mar 25, 2009)

Awww...how cute!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Wll that looks like a dumbo mouse to me.

Julienoob YOu're right some people sell show lines as dumbo when they're not.

This one, unless it has an ear infection causing the ears to 'look' that way, definitely looks dumbo to me.
You need to keep that and breed it back to it's siblings or parent.
Being astrex, it shouldn't be true rex in the UK, it may be that that is giving the placement of the ears. Astrex and texel genes are funny things!!!!!


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Dosen't even look like a mouse tho, looks like a baby rat.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Yup, would help if it was a mouse, that's a baby rat, isn't it? Ooo I dunno looking again.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Me who knows nothing about rat/mice breeds took one look at the pic and thought thats a baby rat. It looks far to big to be a mouse baby
I could be wrong but that was my first thought


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Kathy? Are you like me? Going through TFH books correcting mislabelled photos lol!

It's ears are too thick to be a mouse. Think someone is trying to see how stupid people are?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Well my astrex mice looked like that but I do also have baby rex rats at the moment, only 2 weeks mind, that look similar.

My astrex mice ahd very wide heads for mice as did the texels.



Or maybe I am stupid as you say.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Pimperella said:


> Kathy? Are you like me? Going through TFH books correcting mislabelled photos lol!
> 
> It's ears are too thick to be a mouse. Think someone is trying to see how stupid people are?


Well I'm pretty stupid when it comes to baby mice as I've not had any here, and I don't currently breed dumbos but it does look like a dumbo rat baby. Not sure when it comes to the coat and markings/colour though, as (and correct me if I'm wrong because I've never owned one) they look multimammate to me. So stupid I is! :lol2:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I know nothing about miec, but it looks like one of my baby dumbo rats....


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

It does look very much like a baby rat around the head....but its tail looks very slim and mouselike....and the markings look un-ratlike...

How confusing lol!


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Dosen't even look like a mouse tho, looks like a baby rat.


 well it is a mouse as we breed them and also rats and should know the difference between them :lol2:
this is the first time we have ever had a dumbo mouse and if you like i can send more pictures of her at different angles etc. If you live nearby you are quite welcome and see for yourself too!


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

KathyM said:


> Yup, would help if it was a mouse, that's a baby rat, isn't it? Ooo I dunno looking again.


 defo a mouse as we breed them we also breed rats and have dumbos so know what a dumbo mouse would look like and this is the first one we have had a complete suprise.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Kathy? Are you like me? Going through TFH books correcting mislabelled photos lol!
> 
> It's ears are too thick to be a mouse. Think someone is trying to see how stupid people are?


Why would i do that what would be the point in that? 
:bash: if you like come and see her yourself and then you would feel rather stupid yourself:blush:


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

saxon said:


> Well my astrex mice looked like that but I do also have baby rex rats at the moment, only 2 weeks mind, that look similar.
> 
> My astrex mice ahd very wide heads for mice as did the texels.
> 
> ...


no you are not stupid it is defo a dumbo mouse and yes the astrex mice have slightly wider heads than the ordinary mice.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

well I think she looks like my astrex babies I used to get as they do seem to have wider heads than ordinary mice.

If you do manage to breed more I'd be interested in some. Or even her line as they obviously carry the gene to produce the ear set.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

thinks it the angle of the photo that makes them look lower is it possible to have some more pics please


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

:2thumb:More pics!
You can see her with her litter mates, ALL are mice!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

send a few my way


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

If you ask me you have bred yourself the very first dumbo mouse there .


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

mattm said:


> If you ask me you have bred yourself the very first dumbo mouse there .


 Thanks Matt there is a Gremlin variety but this one does look like a dumbo mouse!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Isn't somebody from petshub breeding "dumbo mice" ?
I also recall quite a few people thinking they had also bred them, but once the mice matured they turned into top-hat ears.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Parts and Pieces

BioMed Central | Full text | Mouse H6 Homeobox 1 (Hmx1) mutations cause cranial abnormalities and reduced body mass

Wouldn't be the _first_. From the last link, it doesn't sound like something I'd want to continue if it were me.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Parts and Pieces
> 
> BioMed Central | Full text | Mouse H6 Homeobox 1 (Hmx1) mutations cause cranial abnormalities and reduced body mass
> 
> Wouldn't be the _first_. From the last link, it doesn't sound like something I'd want to continue if it were me.


 :2thumb:thanks for the info but at the end of the day we will be keeping this mouse back and will certainly not breed from her if she develops any serious faults.

Shes cute however long she lives we think!:flrt:


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

Hello. My name is Jack and I'm a fancy/show mouse breeder in the US. I stumbled across this forum and message while researching dumbo mice. I had originally heard about this dumbo mouse on the MouseFancier.com message boards.

You're right--the mouse does appear dumbo. If she stays reasonably healthy I would keep her until she is around 3 months old, then breed her to a suitable healthy male. Keep the offspring from that pairing, and then breed brother-to-sister.

If this is truly dumbo, you will get more dumbos in the second generation with a cross such as this.

Another thing--you might want to contact a Mouse Club in your area and see if they have any interest in her (even just hearing about her/seeing pictures). For those of us who are "mouse geeks," this is a big deal!

Cait McKeown is one person who might be interested or know others who are. Her site is Fancy Mice And her email (listed on the site) is [email protected]

Also, the National Mouse Club (UK), if you don't already know about them: 
fancy mice at the national mouse club (nmc)

If I haven't said it already -- she is a gorgeous mouse, and congratulations!


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

charlie... well done!! dumbo mice have existed in the past (and i spent HOURS and YEARS trying to find them) but they died out when they allegedly developed health issues and at least in the UK, they've not to my knowledge been seen since. The baby in the first pic is quite clearly a mouse though guys... although im always sceptical too when some one announces they've bred something new but thtis is indeed a big thing and well done! if i could find some where to put them I'd be having some!!!! :no1:

Kat


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## Ruthy (Dec 10, 2007)

JackG said:


> Hello. My name is Jack and I'm a fancy/show mouse breeder in the US. I stumbled across this forum and message while researching dumbo mice. I had originally heard about this dumbo mouse on the MouseFancier.com message boards.
> 
> You're right--the mouse does appear dumbo. If she stays reasonably healthy I would keep her until she is around 3 months old, then breed her to a suitable healthy male. Keep the offspring from that pairing, and then breed brother-to-sister.
> 
> ...


 
Kate definately is the person to talkt to! Though i remember she had a dumbo crop up in her lines, and no matter what she did she couldnt produce anymore dumbo's, so perhaps its not the true dumbo gene but some form of deformity?

Ruth


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

Ruthy said:


> Kate definately is the person to talkt to! Though i remember she had a dumbo crop up in her lines, and no matter what she did she couldnt produce anymore dumbo's, so perhaps its not the true dumbo gene but some form of deformity?
> 
> Ruth


It's entirely possible that Cait's dumbo was caused by a different gene or set of genes than this little girl.

I know that if this mouse were in the US, there are a few of us fanciers who would pay a pretty penny for it or others like her. That's why I suggest breeding her and her offspring correctly to get more, to see if this is indeed (genetically) dumbo. I'd definitely contact Cait, though. 

(BTW--to the original poster, ignore the people on The Fun Mouse. They're all stuck-up and pretty mean to new people in general, especially anybody who owns reptiles. That's why I hang out at MouseFancier instead. )


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## CorrineDarren (Jul 7, 2009)

What a little cutie !! you can see why their called Dumbo hehe:flrt:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

So Jack, have you noticed any of the deformities associated with the dumbo mouse that were mentionned in the article I posted?


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

Yeah, of course.

But you don't know what gene or set of genes you have until you breed. That's how ALL of the varieties of mice (and snakes and herps, for that matter) we currently have originated -- something "different" popped up and people decided to breed for more, with an understanding of basic genetics. 

If you were breed this girl and all her children are grossly deformed, or in terrible health otherwise, of course you shouldn't breed the line anymore. We're all reasonable people, so I hope that's obvious.  

But if she (the original mouse) remains healthy, to breed her to an unrelated male and see if you can reproduce [healthy] dumbo mice is the name-of-the-game, if you will: developing new varieties of domestic animals.

I've studied mouse genetics for a long time (10 years, I feel old, haha) and often times you will have one line of mice of a certain genetic type (I think of American Brindle, Avy, which I happen to breed) where one line is riddled with health problems, deformities, and short lifespans, and another line is not. It just depends on what you have.

I'll say it again: this mousie is super cute.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

JackG said:


> Hello. My name is Jack and I'm a fancy/show mouse breeder in the US. I stumbled across this forum and message while researching dumbo mice. I had originally heard about this dumbo mouse on the MouseFancier.com message boards.
> 
> You're right--the mouse does appear dumbo. If she stays reasonably healthy I would keep her until she is around 3 months old, then breed her to a suitable healthy male. Keep the offspring from that pairing, and then breed brother-to-sister.
> 
> ...


thanks for the reply Jack i didnt realise it would cause such a stir posting a picture of a mouse how bizzarre :lol2:

I am a member of the above groups and have been for several years and there is one particular one called the fun mouse club which is NO FUN AT ALL! :lol2: they have said it is unethical to breed non pedigree mice let alone a dumbo! They hit the roof over it which i cant really understand because you can enjoy any pet it doesnt need to be a pedigree ie having a crossbreed dog, cat or indeed a pet mouse. At the end of the day if people enjoy their pets that is what is paramount to me over silly pedigree papers. (Not that Im saying people shouldnt have the right to buy and enjoy owning a pedigree pet). 

I expect I will be slated for that comment now too! :2thumb:


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Twiglet said:


> charlie... well done!! dumbo mice have existed in the past (and i spent HOURS and YEARS trying to find them) but they died out when they allegedly developed health issues and at least in the UK, they've not to my knowledge been seen since. The baby in the first pic is quite clearly a mouse though guys... although im always sceptical too when some one announces they've bred something new but thtis is indeed a big thing and well done! if i could find some where to put them I'd be having some!!!! :no1:
> 
> Kat


 Thanks Kat and yes it definitely is a mouse and we are proud of her too!


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Ruthy said:


> Kate definately is the person to talkt to! Though i remember she had a dumbo crop up in her lines, and no matter what she did she couldnt produce anymore dumbo's, so perhaps its not the true dumbo gene but some form of deformity?
> 
> Ruth


 :whistling2:we will wait and see if she is ok healthwise at the age of about 3-4 months we will attempt to breed from her and if we get dumbo babies we do and if we dont we dont.
People get very hyped up on here over this issue and what i say is let them carry on as at the end of the day im the one having the last laugh as some of the posts are quite amusing:lol2::lol2:


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

CorrineDarren said:


> What a little cutie !! you can see why their called Dumbo hehe:flrt:


 thanks :no1:


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

charlie2e1dxy said:


> thanks for the reply Jack i didnt realise it would cause such a stir posting a picture of a mouse how bizzarre :lol2:
> 
> I am a member of the above groups and have been for several years and there is one particular one called the fun mouse club which is NO FUN AT ALL! :lol2: they have said it is unethical to breed non pedigree mice let alone a dumbo! They hit the roof over it which i cant really understand because you can enjoy any pet it doesnt need to be a pedigree ie having a crossbreed dog, cat or indeed a pet mouse. At the end of the day if people enjoy their pets that is what is paramount to me over silly pedigree papers. (Not that Im saying people shouldnt have the right to buy and enjoy owning a pedigree pet).
> 
> I expect I will be slated for that comment now too! :2thumb:


Well, you know -- mouse fanciers are some of the weirdest people I know (I include myself in this). When something "new" pops up, we all go crazy and envy the person who has it. 

I remember a few years ago when splashed popped up, it was like this. Nowadays all the splashed mice in the world can be traced back to a few people. Maybe in a few years all the dumbo mice in the world can be traced back to you. 

I know folks who've paid thousands of pounds (dollars, actually) to ship mice across the Atlantic. I don't know if it's the same with reptiles, but it wouldn't surprise me -- we both take our animal hobbies very seriously. 

I've been involved with mice for a long time, am a peer to some very respected breeders and am affiliated with two different Mouse Clubs (one national, one regional) and yet some of the folks at The Fun Mouse still hate me because I have different opinions than them. It's a shame that they're like that, but it's their prerogative to be childish and reactionary, you know?  You can't really stop them from lashing out at anybody who doesn't think exactly like them, but you CAN refuse to give them the time of day. It's a shame, because The Fun Mouse had the opportunity to be a really great mouse community and it lost it all to infighting, incessant personal attacks, and weird personalities creating a small clique-like inner circle while getting off attacking people (their favorite word is "unethical." If they don't like it, it's unethical. If it costs too much, it's unethical. If it disagrees with what they've always done, it's unethical. If it's the wrong color, it's unethical. If it requires serious thought, it's unethical).

For the record, though *_*I*_* won't call you unethical, and I don't think anybody over at MouseFancier.com's message boards would either. It's more of a live-and-let-live attitude, which I respect. We're each responsible people and we can make our own decisions as to what's best for our animals, and we accept that sometimes there are disagreements. That doesn't mean one of us is unethical or stupid or evil.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Haha. Hope everybody who's contributed to this thread is well and enjoying their critters.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

JackG said:


> Well, you know -- mouse fanciers are some of the weirdest people I know (I include myself in this). When something "new" pops up, we all go crazy and envy the person who has it.
> 
> I remember a few years ago when splashed popped up, it was like this. Nowadays all the splashed mice in the world can be traced back to a few people. Maybe in a few years all the dumbo mice in the world can be traced back to you.
> 
> ...


 :2thumb: cheers jack i will keep in touch with you regarding the "UNETHICAL MOUSE" :lol2: AND IF YOU LIKE YOU CAN ADD ME ON MSN IF YOU HAVE IT [email protected]


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

:lol2::lol2: amusing or what! Look at this for a reply.

Poor little mouse causing all this trouble.

*Re: Dumbo mice*

by *moi_kitty* on Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:49 am 
Breeding for a pet store and breeding without a pedigree are NOT ethical breeding practices. We do not welcome such behavior on this forum. I'm sure there are plenty of other forums that would be willing to help you continue your poor breeding, but we are not one of them.

WOO HOO this is from the "FUN MOUSE" forum. :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It's a view many people hold. You cant tell what your mice are dying from if you sell them in pet shops, so you wont be able to breed for health or temperament. Healthy animals should be the aim of any breeder, first and foremost.

You can breed nice pets without breeding from unknown stock too :whistling2:


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

QUOTE=LisaLQ;4297507]It's a view many people hold. You cant tell what your mice are dying from if you sell them in pet shops, so you wont be able to breed for health or temperament. Healthy animals should be the aim of any breeder, first and foremost.

You can breed nice pets without breeding from unknown stock too :whistling2:[/QUOTE]
We wouldn't sell them to a pet shop UNLESS they are fully established and have NO known health problems!
We have been selling mice to pet shops and friends etc for many years, and most of them return a few years later and want more. :2thumb:


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

Do you cull your mice? If so then there's no need to release any mice to the 'public' before you're satisfied that they're sound and healthy. PM me if you want to chat about dumbo mice etc


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Fancy Mice said:


> Do you cull your mice? If so then there's no need to release any mice to the 'public' before you're satisfied that they're sound and healthy. PM me if you want to chat about dumbo mice etc


 Yes some of the Mice are culled, and we certainly wouldn't "Release" any mice to ANYONE unless we KNOW they are sound and healthy!


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

I didn't mean to imply that you would, just pointing out to those who are worried about this that it would be possible for you to screen the line for generations before letting any go. Most people establishing new lines/varieties do this anyway - I have done it myself.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Not judging at ALL and definitely not wanting to get in on the pro/anti pet shop debate, but I would be interested to know how you know your lines are healthy if some end up at the petshop for sale to the general public? Do they have to leave their details or something so you can keep up to date on their health throughout their lives? I've always wondered how people monitor the health of their lines when selling to the petshop, I would've thought it was impossible to say a line was healthy if a significant amount were "awol" so to speak. :?:


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

That's what I did, actually -- I kept all the first few generations (somewhere around 8-9) myself and released NONE of them to the public, so I could monitor their health, temperament and genetics myself. To date, I have only actually released one mouse to the public as a pet (as opposed to trusted ECMA/AFRMA-affiliated breeders) and very few to other breeders.

Many of us who breed mice do so for show, not (necessarily) to supply the public with pets. This is a valid and acceptable tradition dating back to Walter Maxey himself. Some people breed for other reasons -- for pets or for feeders, even. I stand back and do not judge these people negatively, just as I will not be so judged by others. They try, of course, but I don't accept it.

In a hobby where so much of the public is afraid/misinformed of our animal to begin with, it's a matter of staying reasonably calm and respectful and remembering that behind every mouse is a real, live person (even on the Internet!). Imagine that you had this person in your house for tea -- even though you disagree with them, wouldn't you treat them with the respect they deserve? Or would you roll your eyes and make accusations at them?

My bigger point is that as long as we reflect maturity and responsibility, we help change the public perception of mice for the better, bit by bit.

But if we argue and throw stuff (figuratively speaking, hopefully!) it does just the opposite: tears down the reputation of our animal _and_ makes us lose credibility and look childish in the process.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

KathyM said:


> Not judging at ALL and definitely not wanting to get in on the pro/anti pet shop debate, but I would be interested to know how you know your lines are healthy if some end up at the petshop for sale to the general public? Do they have to leave their details or something so you can keep up to date on their health throughout their lives? I've always wondered how people monitor the health of their lines when selling to the petshop, I would've thought it was impossible to say a line was healthy if a significant amount were "awol" so to speak. :?:


 yes all the places we sell to have our name address telephone mobile numbers. They keep in regular contact with us and actually call us if there was a problem which we we had once in 8 years where they had a cold not inherited just had a cold. It was debatable whether they left us with this problem or contracted within the care of the pet shop as all the rest of our mice were at that time ok at home but we replaced them anyway. 

We know our mice lines are fine as a lot of our friends, daughters friends etc have had mice off of us in the past and they have had no genetic problems whatsoever, my sister in law has had mice off of us for years and all her mice have been fine. 

Some of the pet shops take down the customers name and telephone number in case there is a problem to trace back who the supplier was of a particular litter and i think that is the usual practise anyway.

Hope that answers your query?


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes thanks.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

So do you have details of what every single mouse you've supplied to the pet shop died of, what their temperaments were like etc?

As a breeder, I breed for pet homes and show second (in marked varieties as I'm sure you'll understand there's significantly more mismarked than showable, but that doesn't bother me - I breed for healthy happy rats, if one is well marked that's a bonus). I home mine easily via our waiting list or word of mouth. All our rats go out on non-breeding contracts on the proviso that they are returned to us should they need rehoming in the future, and we ask that all owners keep in touch regularly to update on their rats. We dont stalk them - just check every few months, although several of our owners like to keep in touch more often than that (and I love getting pic updates!).

I feel that to the best of my knowledge, I will find out exactly how their health and temperament is all through their life. I dont think this would be possible if I sold animals through a pet shop - owners are not vetted, they dont submit their contact details, they dont agree not to breed from them - as that's not what people who buy from pet shops want. They want an item that belongs to them, sod what their breeder wants :lol2:

I just wondered - if you supply to pet shops, how do you keep in touch with owners throughout their lives, it's all very well the shop being able to get in touch but do your babies' owners submit their contact details, do you speak to them, and keep in touch throughout their lives?

I'm not trying to judge or roll eyes - far from it - I'm trying to understand the logistics of it, as I personally dont see how it's possible. Would be really interested in hearing though as you might be able to make me understand!


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

I was reviewing some publications and I saw that in Mouse Phenotypes: A Handbook for Mutation Analysis (V. E. Papaioannou), the author states the odds of a phenotypical (observable) spontaneous mutation to be 1/100,000 or greater. Just thought I'd throw that out there to show how rare this happening is, if it does turn out to be a spontaneous mutation to dumbo (which I'd put my money on).


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> So do you have details of what every single mouse you've supplied to the pet shop died of, what their temperaments were like etc?
> 
> As a breeder, I breed for pet homes and show second (in marked varieties as I'm sure you'll understand there's significantly more mismarked than showable, but that doesn't bother me - I breed for healthy happy rats, if one is well marked that's a bonus). I home mine easily via our waiting list or word of mouth. All our rats go out on non-breeding contracts on the proviso that they are returned to us should they need rehoming in the future, and we ask that all owners keep in touch regularly to update on their rats. We dont stalk them - just check every few months, although several of our owners like to keep in touch more often than that (and I love getting pic updates!).
> 
> ...


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

oh wow congratulations charlie, that mouse is adorable :flrt: I for one would be very interested in seeing how this all pan out, and If I have actually met the creator of a brand new line of fancy mice.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

wohic said:


> oh wow congratulations charlie, that mouse is adorable :flrt: I for one would be very interested in seeing how this all pan out, and If I have actually met the creator of a brand new line of fancy mice.


 : victory:Thanks it was a total suprise for us!!


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

JackG said:


> I was reviewing some publications and I saw that in Mouse Phenotypes: A Handbook for Mutation Analysis (V. E. Papaioannou), the author states the odds of a phenotypical (observable) spontaneous mutation to be 1/100,000 or greater. Just thought I'd throw that out there to show how rare this happening is, if it does turn out to be a spontaneous mutation to dumbo (which I'd put my money on).


 :lol2::lol2:From the Fun Mouse people:
You have been *permanently* banned from this board.

Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

Reason given for ban: *Failure to follow the rules #1, 9 and 11.*

_A ban has been issued on your username._

:notworthy:_Democracy in action!!:notworthy:_


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## JackG (Jul 13, 2009)

charlie2e1dxy said:


> :lol2::lol2:From the Fun Mouse people:
> You have been *permanently* banned from this board.
> 
> Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.
> ...


Congratulations. 

You didn't really lose much. They're a few snobby, tyrannical cult-like loons. That's why I recommend MouseFancier to everybody. As of late there has been a deluge of very real-looking spam accounts registered, so the main Admin Jennifer has set in a new policy, if you register that you need to follow: Potential New Members - REJECTED New Members!

It might take a while to get your account activated (a new ECMA mouse show is coming up soon so everybody is busy) but it's much more reasonable than Barb and The Fun Mouse ever thought about being. 

I don't know why, but some mouse people (not the majority of us, thankfully) really are crazy hostile.

You might be surprised at the number of folks who are intimidated by that little group of people who control The Fun Mouse, but the thing is, you don't need to be. They're not worth it.


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