# Royal Morph Chat.



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Just made this so all the Royalty can chat here 

I will start of...

what do you think about the dreamsicle? i am unsure on it, but must carry a big price tag!


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Big price tag, and I'm not really fussed on it to be honest!

I'd like to see other Co-Doms mixed in with the Pied, such as Cinnamons, Pinstripes etc.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

How big of a price tag do you know? 

I liked the spider pied, completely white except for the head, is cool.

I also love the queen bee, think spider morphs are my favourite...as there are so many!

The toffe hets were going for $15,000 last time i seen them, not worth it imo.

And the sandstorms? they were diffrent...pretty cool...


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

I think the Dreamsicles were something like $50,000 + each


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

hogboy said:


> I think the Dreamsicles were something like $50,000 + each


so £25,400 ish! damn, thats pretty expensive. Preffer an axanthic killer bee myself :2thumb:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

My overall favourite is still the Clown, and Pastel Clown's are simply stunning!


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> My overall favourite is still the Clown, and Pastel Clown's are simply stunning!


I also love clowns. If u pm me i can give you prices from you know who :lol2: as he gave me prices for clowns also.


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

yeah its all about the spider morphs, i can't wait to get mine


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## talltom69 (Dec 8, 2006)

With all these expensive morphs you just need to wait a year then they drop drastically, the champagne was 16K last year now seen them for 4k, 12k drop in one year, next year i think they will be 2/3k


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

yeah. some of the stuff being produced, especially in the usa is very exciting but way too expensive, i'm loving the NERD stuff


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

b-pro said:


> yeah its all about the spider morphs, i can't wait to get mine


Why do people particularly choose spider, when there are known neurological issues with the majority of spider individuals?

Is the colour and pattern change so visually stunning that it makes it "okay" to have a snake that does loop-the-loops when it's excited?

I'd personally rather combine pinstripe, pastel and Calico/Sugar to produce a "mock Spider" than have even one spider animal that can't keep its head the right way up.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Because its co-dom. People buy a spider and think they can make a ton more and make a quick buck. Typical really.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

I don't think it's an actual neurological problem though is it? Offspring that are normal from a spider parent don't possess any of the spider traits, only the spiders can do the acrobats. I think it's considered ok because spiders feed, breed and live healthy and happy lives.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Crownan said:


> Because its co-dom. People buy a spider and think they can make a ton more and make a quick buck. Typical really.


Yeah that's right, it's so quick i don't need to make anymore, my bank manager is very happy. :lol:


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

royalpython said:


> Yeah that's right, it's so quick i don't need to make anymore, my bank manager is very happy. :lol:


I said people THINK they can... :roll: Hence them being so popular.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Nothing to do with their pretty good looks then?


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

royalpython said:


> Nothing to do with their pretty good looks then?


Personally im not a fan, so I cant agree with you there


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Ah well :lol: They do seem to be a very popular morph.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

royalpython said:


> I don't think it's an actual neurological problem though is it? Offspring that are normal from a spider parent don't possess any of the spider traits, only the spiders can do the acrobats. I think it's considered ok because spiders feed, breed and live healthy and happy lives.


Just because it is only found in Spiders doesn't mean it's *not* neurological... and one or two people have reported spinning Spider siblings.

There are certain colour and pattern traits in other animals that cause other biological problems, too - like the Lethal White Overo Syndrome in horses. Homozygous Overo = solid white foal with an incomplete colon. Heterozygous Overo = white patched foal (even if the patch is only one hair) that is fully functional.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

i have read a bit more into than one or two spider sibblngs possessing. It's meant to be that if spider sibblings do, it's no more than breeding two normals together and the odd royal possessing it. 8ballpython.com has a interesting article about them. 

It still doesn't mean they are neurological either. I have read that NERD have said it's not neurological, so god knows. I do agree, there is something lurking within the spider trait and its in every spider mutation around - i'm not one of the non-believers that think all spiders are perfect. I actually wouldn't buy from someone who told me their line of spiders were clean... i'd think they could be lying to me, and i'd automatically lose trust in them from the off.

Despite all this, there is an abundance of evidence that show how well spiders thrive in captivity. They are very alert and active snakes to own.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Out of interest, to what degree does your Spider show "looping" and "spinning"?

Amongst stories I've heard of other people's Spiders "Star Gazing", lying on their sides playing dead, and all round looping backwards, my Spider doesn't show any of these "symptoms".

I don't claim he is clean, however he does not show the typical symptoms related to "spinning or looping".


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

royalpython said:


> It still doesn't mean they are neurological either. I have read that NERD have said it's not neurological


Until someone dissects one to find out what part of the snake is abnormal and causing it to show the spinning behaviour... it's either a neurological issue or a problem with the vestibular system (inner ear). 

Either way it is a physical problem with the animal, and I personally do not believe in perpetuating defects like that. I won't get into Caramel Albino royals for the same reason - kinked animals are not what I want to produce. Until someone can prove that the spinning, the kinks (and indeed the spinning in Enigma leoaprd geckos) can be SEPARATED from the physical appearance of the gene, I have no interest in perpetuating defects that have pretty paint jobs.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> Out of interest, to what degree does your Spider show "looping" and "spinning"?
> 
> Amongst stories I've heard of other people's Spiders "Star Gazing", lying on their sides playing dead, and all round looping backwards, my Spider doesn't show any of these "symptoms".
> 
> I don't claim he is clean, however he does not show the typical symptoms related to "spinning or looping".


My one can go over his own body and go along the roof of the tank upside down. he cant do full loops, or even half loops really. So he's not too bad.

here's a link to 8ballpythons. I think you have to join the forum to be able to gain access to it. Ralph Davis has said pretty much said the same.

8 Ball Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Thats fair enough Ssthisto (damn that's always a tongue twister getting that spelling right!! :lol: ), and i wouldn't force anyone to like it. It took me a few months to decide whether i would get one, as initially i was put off by it. It's grown on me, and i can see first hand that these royals do thrive... i probably shouldn't, but i start to forget it's meant to be a "defect" and have just accepted it's part of the spider and that's all it is. Albino's are known to have poor eye sight, but it doesn't stop the entire world wanting one :lol:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Cheers for the link!


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Bumble Bee for me.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

not morph related but what is the youngest you have bred a royal at...or, what is the youngest royal you have had reach 1kg? Just intrested, getting my morphs as 08's...


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Snake, stay away from breeding at low weights. You'll just end up with more hassle if you're not used to handling under weight adults.

Favourites, you can't beat an Albino  I'm a classics man myself.
Co-dom wise, Pewter. Again I like to keep things simple.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Yer dont worry i will stay clear of low wieghts, you will also got small clutches aswell as other problems.


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> Big price tag, and I'm not really fussed on it to be honest!
> 
> I'd like to see other Co-Doms mixed in with the Pied, such as Cinnamons, Pinstripes etc.


cinnamon has already been done with a pied looks ok not a great fan
Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - Super Cinny Pied

i on the other hand would like to see this when its older to see what happens colour wise
Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - My dream royal morph - wow wow wow


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

if i was to invest in a royal morph myself it would have to be a plain old axanthic for me so maybe one day.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Black Eyed Leucistics are stunning as are Albino's, Spiders and Pieds....:flrt::mf_dribble::2thumb::no1::lol2:


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

No problem Akua.

Samroyal, that axanthic clown is pretty darn good... first time i've seen one, thanks for that


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

OK the axanthic clown is B-E-A-utiful!!

I am still unsure on the royal morphs i am after, i have basically reserved:
1.0 Lesser Platty
0.1 Spider
0.1 Mojave

haven't reserved but told a breeder i will most probably be having them.

And i will take money to hamm so if i see anything i may get it, but that could be anything really!

My favourites are the:
Queen Bee
Lesser Bee
Axanthic Killer Bee

All spider related  lol.

I am intrested to know what pinstripes can produce...expect for the spinners, and king pin...? dont really know much about the pin morph...

what can they make?


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

So what morphs do you lot have then... not really with it when it comes to Royal morphs, but love them all the same...


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

samroyal2 said:


> if i was to invest in a royal morph myself it would have to be a plain old axanthic for me so maybe one day.


mine would be clown, or something expensive like toffee, or dreamsicle.


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

royalpython said:


> No problem Akua.
> 
> Samroyal, that axanthic clown is pretty darn good... first time i've seen one, thanks for that


no problem should look good when its older hopfully some updated pics will be around in the future would like to see how it turns out.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> So what morphs do you lot have then... not really with it when it comes to Royal morphs, but love them all the same...


Getting 
Lesser Platty
Mojave 
Spider 
Will be producing Lesser Bees, and Leucy if all goes well. Mainly for myself not to be sold. My plan is evry morph that comes through me i will keep atleast 1 of each morph.

Love m'e morphs.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> So what morphs do you lot have then... not really with it when it comes to Royal morphs, but love them all the same...


Mine are mostly on the website. I've a few projects as well, one with a weird lighter stripe, another that is a stripe (hoping my harlequin and her can mix things up a little) and another one that produced some black backs last year - the female mother is different looking... so we'll see. i'll happily accept the genetic black back thing from her


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Good idea although surely if you get 2 Leucy's you should keep both and breed them together to make whole clutch full of Leucy's??:lol2:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Pinstripes can be mixed with anything really, so far I've seen Hypo Pins, Caramel Pins, Axanthic Pins, Albino Pins.

A Jigsaw which is a Pin x Mojave.

Lemon Blast which is Pin x Pastel

Spinner which is Pin x Spider


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

bradhollands999 said:


> Good idea although surely if you get 2 Leucy's you should keep both and breed them together to make whole clutch full of Leucy's??:lol2:


yes yes yes! make some dollar off that, can anything else be produced if a leucy is breed with another morph??


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

You have quite a collection Royal Python... are you a full-time breeder??


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

i would probably sell 1 for the money, and buy some more diffrent morphs to creat new morphs i am yet to breed.

I will see...

I may have to get a 0.1 pastel to make Pastel Lessers, just seen Scotts (CB Scott)


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> You have quite a collection Royal Python... are you a full-time breeder??


Nah. i still have my day job 

I wish i was a full time breeder though, it's something i'd very much enjoy doing 

I think we have about 12 different proven morphs (some several of each), and 3 projects or something, which is more than enough for a part time hobby breeder - the temptation to buy more still doesn't leave me though, it's a nightmare:lol2:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Bet you make your money back on them... thinking about it you probably make profit considering how much some of them morphs go for...


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

b-pro said:


> yes yes yes! make some dollar off that, can anything else be produced if a leucy is breed with another morph??


Yup, depending on what makes up the leucistic.

For example, a Lesser/Mojave leucistic, bred to a Pinstripe, could produce Lessers, Kingpins, Mojaves or Jigsaws... 

I would like a Crystal Jigsaw personally....


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

recycle, i mean royal morphs, the possibilities are endless!


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

any pics or links to these "jigsaws"?


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Bet you make your money back on them... thinking about it you probably make profit considering how much some of them morphs go for...


No comment :lol: I'm still fairly new to it all really


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

snakelover said:


> any pics or links to these "jigsaws"?


Heres a pic of a 'Jigsaw' from the VPI site
Not many pics of them around.


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

well i'm looking to breed when they're all ready, i don't aim to make profit but it would be nice, i think if i can break even that would be best, trying to get some bumblebees and whatever else i can get from a pastel, mojave and spider


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

I need a male albino and male pied then a bunch of female hets of each so i can do bino x pied and het binos, pied x bino and het pieds so i get pieds, binos and DH albino pied so i can kick that off.

My cinnamon also needs to eat as i despair over her, she needs to be getting chunky as she's going to the bee so i can hopefully make a pewterbee and be happy then go back to my silver streak project.

Need some pastel clowns too like NEEEEEDDDD them.

The lesser and cinnamon spotnose will be produced this year.

I'm also thinking the Fire orange ghost of pauls would be mental blended into clown or pied, or i wonder how clown pieds would turn out - hmmmm.

Rach


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

b-pro said:


> well i'm looking to breed when they're all ready, i don't aim to make profit but it would be nice, i think if i can break even that would be best, trying to get some bumblebees and whatever else i can get from a pastel, mojave and spider


I dont think mojo spiders are anything special compared to the spider, i would do the pastel x mojo maself.


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

my original target was bees so i'm definatly doin that but i only have 1 fem pastel so pastel mojave will have to wait, i could get some more mojaves or spiders from my normal female just need to look at my options


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Yeah Rachel, the pastel clown is pretty much my main goal out of it all. Such a simple combo really... really cant wait till i produce some of them  **Dreams of the day**


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm a big fan of all of the Fire crosses, especially the Fire pastels
And love the Enchi inferno whatever thats made up of ?


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

The mojave bumblebee is hot, pastaves i could make next year i have a choice next year:

Pastel x Pin = Pastel, Pin, Lemonblast
Pastel x Bee = Spider, Pastel, Super Pastel, Bee, Killerbee
Pastel x Mojave = Mojave, Pastel, Pastave

OR.

Run all 3 (pin, bee, mojo) through the pastel and see what the odds give me....


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Enchi inferno is pretty cool, i like it.

That would be pretty cool enchi inferno x pied.


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

rachel132002 said:


> The mojave bumblebee is hot, pastaves i could make next year i have a choice next year:
> 
> Pastel x Pin = Pastel, Pin, Lemonblast
> Pastel x Bee = Spider, Pastel, Super Pastel, Bee, Killerbee
> ...


uhh think i just had a mini orgasm:lol2: i wanna eventually try a killerbee, just takes time if doin it this way and breeding em all instead of just buying one


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

Enchi inferno must be fire, i had a chat with scott on this...

I also LOVE the purple passion and red spectrum ball pythons whatever makes them...


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

Just buy a superpastel or bee or both lol


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

i wanna get em the fun way lol


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

rachel132002 said:


> Just buy a superpastel or bee or both lol


and a killer bee :lol:


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## b-pro (Feb 22, 2008)

royalpython said:


> and a killer bee :lol:


 and a loan:lol2:


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

That's what i need, i don't know what to get next *sigh* i think a male pied but i like collecting my different colours lol and going ooooo looky and i want a pastel orange ghost female or pair lol - not much then!


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

rachel132002 said:


> That's what i need, i don't know what to get next *sigh* i think a male pied but i like collecting my different colours lol and going ooooo looky and i want a pastel orange ghost female or pair lol - not much then!


You need a nice Fire male to brighten some projects up.
Not to pricey either


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Whats the new morph thats worth the most atm then??


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

I think Ralphs 'Dreamsicle' is still pretty pricey !!!


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

Yeah i'd like a pair of fires, was on pauls list for some but problem i have is i need to pay jaymc for all the royals i bought off him, kevin for a boa i should be getting lol and now some adult corns - i'm just a disaster. To top it off i'm on the look for nice golddusts, GD mots and butter stripes *cough cough hint hint* but anyhoo back to royals, i really don't know what to do now, i have a girl looking maaayybbbee gravid but i don't know for sure and this whole season was a disaster to be fair...

Rachel


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

GD's and GD mots no probs, Butter stripe eggs, well some look good, some are not so good !!!! why of all my clutches do the BS have to be less than perfect :bash:


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

hogboy said:


> I think Ralphs 'Dreamsicle' is still pretty pricey !!!


I asked Ralph for a quote on that, and he said he turned down $70k for one of those, and the buyer wanted a pair :lol:

Pricey indeed, very rare though.

I think with the fires i might just jump in the deep end later down the line (a year or two?), with a pastel fire... and i'm gunning along the same lines with pinstripes... and going for the lemon blast.


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

My corn eggs went poo, they just have yellow gunk in em so i guess temp spike - bum out, royals well lots of follicles no eggs, bloody pastel died and took down everything it could with it, have a new male pastel now but don't know what to do with him yet lol, won't flippin eat neither.


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

Yeah on dreamsicles when an ex forum member said they could get them for something like £5k i giggled and mailed ralph who quoted something like they aren't for sale and a pair of HETS would be like $25,000


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## jm-ze-b (Mar 9, 2008)

I saw a banana royal morph recently ( on Internet ), they Luk pretty damn gud. LOL another expensive snake.


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

anyone bred cinny pastel x spider? what was the outcome


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Search for Cinnabee


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Not too keen on the bees that are "dirty" i like the clean ones like axanthic killer bee, queen bee, lesser bee etc, still wouldnt mind a cinnabee 

BHB said that breeding Womas are hard like breeding ball pythons, say if you breed 10 females you will get around 5 clutches surely this is slightly egg-sadurated?

Cant wait to hamm, might get a suprise morph or 2 that are unplaned . Co-dom pair (extra)? we'll see


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

As y'all know the 3 morphs i will be getting later this year.

At Hamm if i have extra money, i will look out for adult royal morphs, only adults otherwise i will probably not buy as i will have 08's then.

Anyway was thinging 1.1 Pastels to creat the homozygous, Super Pastel. I thenk thought a Pinstripe to creat the homozygous King Pin with my male lesser i am getting.

Was woundering if anyone has pictures and prices for King Pins.

ALSO Lesser x Pastel = Lesser Pastel but a Lesser x Super Pastel, would the out come visually look diffrent to the Lesser Pastels?


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

Heres a Kingpin, pic By Celia @ Exoticsbynature, No idea on price though


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

A kingpin is not by definition homozygous for EITHER gene (lesser platinum OR pinstripe)... and you definitely wouldn't get homozygous for either of those traits by breeding a carrier of one trait but not the other to a carrier of the other trait but not the first. 

A male lesser crossed to a pinstripe would produce heterozygous lesser, heterozygous pinstripe at best (kingpins) plus heterozygous lessers (lesser platinum), heterozygous pinstripes (pinstripe) and normals (not het for either trait).

The only way you can possibly get homozygous animals is if BOTH parents carry the gene - a kingpin bred to a lesser could produce homozygous lesser (BluEL) pinstripes, for example. 

No, a lesser X super pastel would not produce different-looking Lesser Pastels because it is essentially the same cross; the only difference is that you'll get every single animal as a pastel, and therefore have a better chance at getting lesser pastels.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Cool. Think i will go for the Pastel x Pastel though to creat the homozygouse super, and in the long run produce Killer Bees etc.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> A kingpin is not by definition homozygous for EITHER gene (lesser platinum OR pinstripe)... and you definitely wouldn't get homozygous for either of those traits by breeding a carrier of one trait but not the other to a carrier of the other trait but not the first.
> 
> A male lesser crossed to a pinstripe would produce heterozygous lesser, heterozygous pinstripe at best (kingpins) plus heterozygous lessers (lesser platinum), heterozygous pinstripes (pinstripe) and normals (not het for either trait).
> 
> ...


Meh. I don't really like Pins anymore. There's no super to keep me interested, plus most brown out looking like a funky wild type.










Kingpin pic via Ralph.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Robbie said:


> Meh. I don't really like Pins anymore. There's no super to keep me interested, plus most brown out looking like a funky wild type.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with that exactly. I was thinking of a pin but there are more possibiltys with super pastels and spiders etc...


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

snakelover said:


> I agree with that exactly. I was thinking of a pin but there are more possibiltys with super pastels and spiders etc...


Oh Don't get me wrong, Pins can produce some lovely combos.
I just prefer to have a Super.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ye i agree, you seen the axanthic pinstripe....pretty damn cool!

But cant be the spider!

Think i will be looking for adult pastels as extras!...


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

snakelover said:


> Ye i agree, you seen the axanthic pinstripe....pretty damn cool!
> 
> But cant be the spider!
> 
> Think i will be looking for adult pastels as extras!...


Heh. Hope you've saved a bit! Your shopping list looks huge.


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

Here is my all time fave morph

NERD - New England Reptile Distributors - Inferno

There awesome!!!!!!!


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Robbie said:


> Heh. Hope you've saved a bit! Your shopping list looks huge.


3 royal morphs and maybe 2 extras (the pastels).


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Robbie said:


> Heh. Hope you've saved a bit! Your shopping list looks huge.


Do you think i am getting a axanthic pinstripe now? just woundering...


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

For future breeding puposes (to creat new, diffrent morphs) and just which do you prefer in general:
Super Pastel OR Pewter Pastel


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

What would you produce from:
Dominant x Homozygous form of a Co dom.

Eg. Ghost x Super Pastel

Would offspring be:
Super Pastel Ghost, Ghost, Super Pastel and Normal?

or is that completely wrong? I am unsure about what you produce from crossing reccessie, co dom, and dom. 

I am only on the internet for 10minutes or so, my internet broke :S?


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## talltom69 (Dec 8, 2006)

I would assume on that pairing that you would get all pastels 100% het Ghost


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Talltom is exactly right.

Don't think of the genes as being connected (they aren't, except in certain cases*) ... so if you're breeding animals that don't share any of the same genes, each gene will breed exactly the same way as if you were crossing it to a normal.

A super pastel crossed to a normal not-pastel will always produce pastels.
A ghost crossed to a normal not-ghost will always produce het ghosts.

Therefore, combine the two end results and you will get Pastel het Ghosts.

* The "White snake" complex is an exception - crossing a carrier of one of the White Snake alleles to a carrier of a DIFFERENT white snake allele has a chance of producing varying grades of partial or complete Leucistic. Known "White Snake" complex genes are: Mojave, Russo Lemon Line Het Leucistic, Phantom, Lesser Platinum, Butter, and last but not least the normal-looking "Mystery Dilute" that turns Lessers into Platinums, Butters into Butter Daddies and Mojaves into Crystal Balls.


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## rachel132002 (Dec 4, 2006)

Yeah 100% Pastel Het Ghost.

In order to get supers, you'd need a pastel put to the supers and for ghosts the ghost gene would need to be present in both snakes.

Pastel x Normal = 50% Pastel, 50% Normal
Pastel x Pastel = 50% Pastel, 25% Normal, 25% Super Pastel
Super Pastel x Pastel = 50% Pastel, 50% Super Pastel
Super Pastel x Normal = 100% Pastel 

Ghost x Ghost = 100% Ghost
Ghost x Het Ghost = 50% Normal (het for ghost), 50% Ghost
Ghost x Normal = Normal (het ghost)
Het Ghost x Het Ghost = 25% Normal, 25% Ghost, 50% Normal (het Ghost)

I think that's right, easier breaking it down then you can see how the genes work a bit more - provided i'm right, i'm too lazy to double check though lol.

Rach


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Talltom is exactly right.
> 
> Don't think of the genes as being connected (they aren't, except in certain cases*) ... so if you're breeding animals that don't share any of the same genes, each gene will breed exactly the same way as if you were crossing it to a normal.
> 
> ...


Ok that helps alot. I asked because Spider (dom) x Lesser (co-dom) produce a homozygous form, Lesser Bee, this just confused me as ghosts are dom (and reccessive depending on line etc) so ... 

Just intreseted to now what Butters can produce...? When going to hamm want to pick some unexpected morph up...and looking at all morphs and what they can produce.....

Butter x Spider = Butter Bee
Butter x Mojave = BEL?
Butter x Lesser = BEL?
Butter x Pastel = Pastel Butter
Butter x Butter = BEL?

Thansk for all help...:no1:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

snakelover said:


> Ok that helps alot. I asked because Spider (dom) x Lesser (co-dom) produce a homozygous form, Lesser Bee, this just confused me as ghosts are dom (and reccessive depending on line etc) so ...


Actually, a Spider Lesser is NOT a homozygous form of anything (The two genes are like apples and oranges) - because it isn't by definition homozygous spider (apples) or homozygous lesser (oranges).

A Lesser Bee is *heterozygous* for two _different_ traits (assuming one spider parent and one lesser parent, neither of which is a Lesser Bee), which is what produces the visual appearance. 

And the _majority_ of Ghost/Hypo genes are recessive - I know there's meant to be one hypo-effect gene that's dominant, but I can't remember what it's called.



> Just intreseted to now what Butters can produce...? When going to hamm want to pick some unexpected morph up...and looking at all morphs and what they can produce.....
> 
> Butter x Spider = Butter Bee
> Butter x Mojave = BEL?
> ...


Pretty much.

Basically, you could substitute "Butter" into any combination involving Lesser and get a very similar looking snake - although the Butters do seem richer golden than the Lessers are.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Actually, a Spider Lesser is NOT a homozygous form of anything (The two genes are like apples and oranges) - because it isn't by definition homozygous spider (apples) or homozygous lesser (oranges).
> 
> A Lesser Bee is *heterozygous* for two _different_ traits (assuming one spider parent and one lesser parent, neither of which is a Lesser Bee), which is what produces the visual appearance.
> 
> ...


Ssthisto you have been a great help...cheers:no1:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> And the _majority_ of Ghost/Hypo genes are recessive - I know there's meant to be one hypo-effect gene that's dominant, but I can't remember what it's called.


Salmon, in the boa constrictor.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I know about dominant "Salmon" hypo in boas, and codominant "hypo" in leopard geckos, but I am pretty sure there's a dominant hypo-effect mutation in Royal Pythons, too... ?


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## Bar1 (Feb 20, 2007)

hi all ,

What morphs would you suggest in buying to create many morphs in time ??

Cheers 
James


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Bar1 said:


> hi all ,
> 
> What morphs would you suggest in buying to create many morphs in time ??
> 
> ...


 
Spider........................................lol

Few more q's...

Lesser x Pied = Lesser Pied
Spider x Pied =Spider Het Pied no SPIDER PIEDS?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Lesser X Pied = Normals and Lessers, all het Pied. You wouldn't get Lesser Pieds (solid white snakes by the way) until the second generation, since Pied is recessive.

Spider X Pied = Normals and Spiders, all het Pied. Again, you won't get Spider Pieds until the second generation.


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## Bar1 (Feb 20, 2007)

Bar1 said:


> hi all ,
> 
> What morphs would you suggest in buying to create many morphs in time ??
> 
> ...


 


any1??????????????


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Bar1: Which morphs do you like the look of? There's no point in me suggesting something if you say "But I don't like those" - unless your point is to make money, in which case be prepared to invest THOUSANDS (like we just have.... but we still only bought morphs we LIKE... or that are ingredients for what we like.)

I'd choose a selection of codominant/dominant morphs (although these lose value very quickly because they're easy to produce) and pick one or two recessive morphs you really like to mix WITH those codominant/dominants. Combination morphs will hold their value a lot longer than single mutations.

For example:

Buy a pair of Axanthics (recessive), a Spider male (dominant) and a Mojave female (codominant). 

Then, by swapping and changing pairs around you have the potential to produce (in the long term):

Axanthic Spiders
Axanthic Mojave
Axanthic Spider Mojave
Spider Mojave
Spider
Mojave
Super Mojave
Axanthic Super Mojave
Axanthic

And so on.


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## Bar1 (Feb 20, 2007)

ssthisto;

thanks for the reply and im not fussed i like alot of the morphs that is never a good sign . i want some so i can swap them about and make different morphs if you get my drift and were would you recomend on buying morphs from (IE for quality of the animal )

james


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ye i have seen rdr vid on the lesser pied...solid white but he is unsure if all will be solid white, or just he got lucky?


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Started a thread about this post on a American BP Forum...BP.net...huge bp site nad was woundering what anwsers i would have here.

What is the best/are the best lesser platinum combos.

My favourites are 
Red Spec
Black Platinum
Lesser Bee/Queen Bee
BEL

and others favourites were 
KING PIN everyone seems to love!

Anyone know of any reall cool lesser combos.

and also how the Purple Passion and Gargoyle are made?

_*Dan *_


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