# choke chains



## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

there was a quick mention on another thread so it got me thinking.
i have always seen choke chains as a short cut and would never personally use them.

when i worked in a pet shop we always had people coming in who had just gotten puppies , looking for choke chains for them. are they actually truely safe to use on puppies? and by people who dont seem to know how to even handle their new dog anyway?

should they only be used by more experianced hands rather than new owners trying to train their first pet in the fastest conveniant way?


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## kelsey7692 (Jul 28, 2010)

I think they're actually meant to be called 'Check chains' now. 

I personally would never use one, but if they're used in the correct way they are safe. It just depends if the person buying them actually knows who they're meant to work in the first place.

I don't think they're a fast way to train your pet though.


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

thats what bugged me, the people coming in just dont seem to know. ive heard lotsa people say its faster / conveniant way to train them not to pull, but putting time into training your pet is part off the commitment you make?

my boyfriends parents used one on thier new puppy . from the first day they had him he was on that. they cant even train him properly in the house. and theyre not the type to take advice.


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## kelsey7692 (Jul 28, 2010)

They're meant to be used so that you do a quite pull on the chain (or a 'check'), which tightens and realises quickly, but not so the animal is being chocked by the chain. Most people just seem to put them round the dogs neck (not even the correct way round) and let the dog pull, hoping that the chain pulling on the neck will eventually stop the dog pulling. Personally I don't see why anyone would use one and there are much better methods of training your dog.

The only thing we ever used to prevent ours dogs pulling was a halti, and that was after the beagle had given my mum tennis elbow, so she needed something that would stop her pulling quickly.


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

my dog was a HELLISH puller. and very strong. method i used was when he pulled , i turned around and walked him the other direction. rinse and repeat.
bit embaressing in the street , but works.


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## Montage_Morphs (Jul 6, 2007)

I personally don't think choke chains work that well. I don't think they are a quick fix as some dogs just don't care how much they pull regardless of how much they can't breathe lol! Gentle leaders/halti collars are instant no pull fixes, coupled with positive conditioning to heel they are the most effective and fast acting aid I have ever come across. A dog simply can't pull you when you are in control of it's head and muzzle.


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## opakg (Oct 14, 2011)

I remember reading something somewhere about never using the pronged choke chains on puppies under a certain age. Possibly 4 months I think. There soft as anything at 8 weeks when you get them, its gonna hurt like hell and can cause lasting damage if used incorrectly.

I personally would NEVER ever use anything that is negative reinforcement to train a dog. I will go the long haul with normal training that takes patience.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Amusing how pulling always comes into the debate when check chains are mentioned.

Check chains are not made for, nor should they be used for, stopping dogs pulling. They shouldn't even be used on pulling dogs for other purposes.

They are far from a quick fix and should only be used after other methods have been explored and failed. They should be used by knowledgeable people who know how to choose and fit a check chain properly. They shouldn't be used on puppies or dogs prone to tracheal collapse. Aside from that, use common sense!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

The real training of a check chain should be the sound it makes next to their ear of the chain running through the ring. Similar to a shaken bottle technique, a distraction/reminder thing.

They do do a lot of damage to throats in the wrong hands. Of course everyone who has one thinks that theirs are amongst the very few "right" hands and nearly everyone else are the wrong hands.

I have found a good use for a check chain in the past....what I would do was throw it to the ground in beside and slightly in front of a young hard of hearing dog that barked on lead at other dogs, the glint was a great distraction/reminder of training done at home and within a few weeks he was good as gold :2thumb:


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## Lotsofsmoggies (Nov 21, 2011)

I have three labs all get walked on slip leads, which are almost like a choke chain, none of them pull nor have they ever. I did use a halti with my oldest lab, he would not stop acting up in front of other dogs and new people. 2 years later he is walked without now.

I was taught years ago on how to fit a choker correctly, I can't understand how people get it wrong. They should tighten and release quickly, try it out on your own wrist to make sure its the correct way first. 

I'd always recommend the headcollar though, its a miracle worker if used correctly, I've still seen dogs pulling on them though. I hate harnesses they are used on dogs so they can pull, not to stop them pulling. It makes me laugh seeing little dogs on them, least I suppose they aren't making that horrible rasping sound as they pull against a normal collar. :lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

trogdorable said:


> my dog was a HELLISH puller. and very strong. method i used was when he pulled , i turned around and walked him the other direction. rinse and repeat.
> bit embaressing in the street , but works.


i had to do this with my dane.
worked like a charm, but i did look very stuupid for a week till the penny dropped in her tiny brain.

i`ve always used choke chains on my big dogs.
had half checks on puppies
they arnt a quick fix 
or dangerous if used correctly.

i do get annoyed with numpties that have them on the wrong way up so they dont release.
they should come with instructions!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

choke chains are a useful tool...

the problem is when people who don't know how to use them properly get hold of them...

they are just a training tool for some dogs... not to be used all the time... just to train a dog...

they can be cruel... but then so can any collar in a fool's hands... i've seen people practically wring their dog's necks with regular collars because they don't know how to properly check a dog or use a leash... those folks should stay away from choke chains, pronged collars... and maybe dogs for that matter...


once a dog learns not to pull then you don't need a choke collar any more...

the idea is to teach the dog not to pull on any collar...


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## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

my boyfriends pup is now on a slip lead. and that is what they are going to use for the rest of his life. ive noticed when ive been on walks with him , it doesnt release on its own a lot. the pup needs to either shake his head or we have to manually loosen it for him. and it does go tight.

his dad thinks he knows everything about dogs because he's had them before.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive always used half checks when training my big dogs. As Kare said checkchains are great for distraction by throwing in front of the dog


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm not anti choke chains used correctly but I found it really easy to prevent pulling(since most people seem to have the idea that choke= stop pulling) using a walking stick.I just used it to block the surge forward with the command get back.As soon as they complied I returned it to my side and quickly repeated every time someone put a paw in front.It meant I could block all five at the same time effectively .Now all I have to do is the verbal command.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm another person who isn't against check chains - used correctly in the right hands. If anyone is choking their dog on a check chain, then they definitely aren't using it correctly.

Mainly I see dogs walking with the chain lying on their neck/shoulder, which (as I see it) encourages them to pull and choke themselves and I see a lot of dogs doing just that. The chain should be high up their neck just behind their ears and jaw, so that when they are checked *AND IMMEDIATELY RELEASED* (as Kare says) the chain rattles in their ears and tightens under the throat which should stop the dog pulling instantly. Used that way the dog is checked immediately he thinks about pulling and definitely is NEVER choked!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

we use a half check with Gus and its the noise of the chain he responds to more!
he also donesnt like the short shark shock of the tighness... it works...


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## Cleo27 (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm not against them if used properly and correctly but I do understand most don't have a clue and just think its as simple as walking down to road and the dog almost strangling himself which is so frustrating. 

Denzl is on a half check and has been since around 13 weeks old and used properly they are a very good tool. He doesn't pull at all and hasn't really ever, and I just prefer the peace of mind from a half check as when he's walking calmly it is almost as if he has no collar on at all. It's also good due to the fact that if he was ever to pull or startle & try and reverse out of it, he can't because it would tighten.


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

i wouldent dream of useing a choke chain again, after using one on my dog...6 stone boxer who pulls all the time, we decided to give it ago but he just "choked" was sick, and would even pass out he as that determained to fight this thing. so i wouldent use one, we tryed step by step slowly correcting him, but as soon as it loosend he would try to slip it


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

JakeTheDragon said:


> i wouldent dream of useing a choke chain again, after using one on my dog...6 stone boxer who pulls all the time, we decided to give it ago but he just "choked" was sick, and would even pass out he as that determained to fight this thing. so i wouldent use one, we tryed step by step slowly correcting him, but as soon as it loosend he would try to slip it


 
yeah you should stay away from choke chains...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

choke chains are just a teaching tool... just to get the idea across to a young dog that pulling is not acceptable... 

dogs pull because either they can and don't care what you want... or they just don't understand... some people have dogs that actually think they are supposed to pull because the owners haven't taught them properly...

prong and choke collars get the point across better... a regular collar may as well be a harness... the dogs waants to go and he pulls you... and you follow... and then the dog thinks that is how it is supposed to walk...

if a dog pulls just scold it and make it sit... the walk is over until it decides to focus on you... walk back and forth over and over again... forcing the dog to follow you... it'll learn that it's your walk and must pay attention to you because you control where this little adventure is going...


once a dog gets the notion of proper walking you can retire the chains... sometimes in one day...

never let a dog pull you... just stop...

now some dogs with pencil necks and ones that are stupid shouldn't have a choke or prong collar on them... but a german shepherd dog or lab usually get it...


some owners likely need instruction on how to walk a dog and use a chain collar...

hanging on to the leash as a dog pulls you is not a walk... it's a ride... and the dog is in charge...

keep it simple... dogs like simple.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Prong, or pinch, collars are awful & should never be used IMO!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

HABU said:


> yeah you should stay away from choke chains...


Sarcasm huh.......


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Prong, or pinch, collars are awful & should never be used IMO!


 
then don't...

there... all fixed!


but then, you are against hamburgers too!:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

HABU said:


> then don't...
> 
> there... all fixed!
> 
> ...


I think pinch collars are a step too far! Thank god we don't see them over here!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

haha!!

this will piss-off a lot of folks!!:lol2:


Which Dog Training Collar Should I Use?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

HABU said:


> haha!!
> 
> this will piss-off a lot of folks!!:lol2:
> 
> ...


Wow, that 'trainer' must be intelligent! Using a head collar or flat collar is cruel & can hurt a dog, but pinch collars & shock collars are ok??? And Clickers??? :lol2: And all that training so that your dog doen't have to wear a collar? Right, ok, whatever! Bless them! :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

you know, in my humble opinion... the most important way to teach a dog to walk properly on a lead is the command "NO"!

it means stop...

a dog that will not listen to you isn't ready to learn how to walk on a lead...


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> Wow, that 'trainer' must be intelligent! Using a head collar or flat collar is cruel & can hurt a dog, but pinch collars & shock collars are ok??? And Clickers??? :lol2: And all that training so that your dog doen't have to wear a collar? Right, ok, whatever! Bless them! :lol2:


It will not open for me. Still doubt I am missing anything.

By the .com address I would guess it is an american site. Not sure why that should pee us off in the UK

It is sad for the US that they still take part in these things but there are far more sickening things they take part in that we have never stooped to on mass, like ear docking and declawing cats


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

i use a half check on my staffy always have done and always will , i would never use a full check collar.
few pics of her wearing it 
















Half checks are great for staffordshires and use them for alot of training on lead and ring craft


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Our Dobe always had a choke/check chain for walks, it was more for it being really quick to just slip over head because she didn't like having a collar on, she walked ok once it was on, so it didn't irritate her or choke or anything.

My pet hate around here is that a lot of people seem to have these halti, head collars for their dog, and they are just not fitted correctly. I guess they think they are being kind by putting it on loosely but the poor dogs can't see because they are so loose their pulled up into their eyes and their pawing to get it off and being made to continue on their walk in discomfort.


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

HABU said:


> choke chains are just a teaching tool... just to get the idea across to a young dog that pulling is not acceptable...
> 
> dogs pull because either they can and don't care what you want... or they just don't understand... some people have dogs that actually think they are supposed to pull because the owners haven't taught them properly...
> 
> ...


 
i have a white boxer..so his kinda deaf lol......he was good as gold as a pup, but when his hunting instinct kicked in....hell broke loose, chasing leaves stones....and at that time i was only 11 so i really couldent handle him as he , himself as just turned 1, as the years went past we dident take him out for 2 years...untill he turned three and me just turning 13...i kinda got a little stockier and since then iv beent taking him out but again he has started to over power me again....he is now 5 and me 15 16 next month....here is the lil trouble maker.

PUP








NOW








WALK LOL


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Nobody took your dog out for 2 years?  poor dog, I'm not suprised he's a handful.
Why at such a young age was a dog like that your responsibility? I'm sure you try your best, but you shouldn't have had to.


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

em_40 said:


> Nobody took your dog out for 2 years?  poor dog, I'm not suprised he's a handful.
> Why at such a young age was a dog like that your responsibility? I'm sure you try your best, but you shouldn't have had to.


 
my perants dident want him, and said his your dog you take full care of him...so now he doesent like dogs or cats becouse i dident relise you had to socalise your dog.....and i feel so sorry for him because he goes into a huge craze of trying to atatck other dogs when he sees them....he bit a puppy on the nose luckly it was my friends dog, and he said he wouldent do anything knowing my dogs situation ......his fully trained though..sit,lie down,paw,leave it, stay,follow,roll over....many more even tho he is deaf. i trained him my self...his even great off the lead in the woods here a video of that  No way out Clyde. - YouTube


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> I think pinch collars are a step too far! Thank god we don't see them over here!


I saw a chihuahua being walked with a prong collar outside the train station in Nice, France :gasp: Shame I didn't have the language skills to comment... collapsed trachea waiting to happen...

EDIT - also, more generally, I'm basically open minded about dog training and think that in dogs with harder temperaments e.g. working police dogs may require this type of equiptment to manage them, and I understand they're useful for dogs which have little to no chance of full rehab and will always need to be managed. But as a training 'tool', this would always be a last resort and not a first option, for me!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

annabel said:


> I saw a chihuahua being walked with a prong collar outside the train station in Nice, France :gasp: Shame I didn't have the language skills to comment... collapsed trachea waiting to happen...
> 
> EDIT - also, more generally, I'm basically open minded about dog training and think that in dogs with harder temperaments e.g. working police dogs may require this type of equiptment to manage them, and I understand they're useful for dogs which have little to no chance of full rehab and will always need to be managed. But as a training 'tool', this would always be a last resort and not a first option, for me!


A Chihuahua??? Jesus Christ!!! :gasp: :bash:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i work with a new dog in the yard long before i take it for walks... i use a 15 foot leash and teach them to walk and use a basic flat collar well before we ever go out on the road...

how can a dog pull after you tell it to sit?... it's sitting after all...

when your dog knows "NO" then how can it pull... a pulling dog isn't ready for long walks yet... when it listens and obeys then it's ready for walks in public...

i use choke chains in the yard to teach a dog in preparation for walking down the street one day...

you don't take an untaught horse out on the trail... you'll get thrown or something... you do the training in the corral before it's ready to go out and be ridden...


same with dogs... it teaching and bonding time in the back yard... then you graduate to walks in public...

a dog shouldn't be chasing things walking... it should be in control and obedient long before that...

a long lead gives you room to work... to practice things... then you go to a short, six foot leash...

maybe my ways are wrong... after all i figured things out on my own... made all the mistakes... and what works for me and the dog...

my dogs do pretty well and are happy... pampered even... but they listen to me... know the drills... have manners...

so maybe i have it all wrong...


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

JakeTheDragon said:


> my perants dident want him, and said his your dog you take full care of him...so now he doesent like dogs or cats becouse i dident relise you had to socalise your dog.....and i feel so sorry for him because he goes into a huge craze of trying to atatck other dogs when he sees them....he bit a puppy on the nose luckly it was my friends dog, and he said he wouldent do anything knowing my dogs situation ......his fully trained though..sit,lie down,paw,leave it, stay,follow,roll over....many more even tho he is deaf. i trained him my self...his even great off the lead in the woods here a video of that  No way out Clyde. - YouTube


I have a Boxer and they are a handful.Mine is far too interested in anything that she sees whether it is a dog,horse,person or leaf.I took her to dog training classes for about six months but that was really a waste of time,she was more interested in the other dogs than listeneng to me.

I tries a normal colollar and a choke chain.Neither were any good because she would pull anspull.The only way that I have found that I can really control her is with an easy leader.This doesn`t always work as she has a small muzzle and can sometimes slip it but give it a go.It gives you full control.


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## TalulaTarantula (Jan 21, 2011)

We use use a choke chain on our current dog, because when we first got her she had a stupid little collar that had not only worn away her fur, it made her pulling on walks hell, so we put a choke on her and with that and the aid of a halti, her pulling is now non exsistance, we no how to correctly apply a choke chain and how to use it, she was not once dragged around or choked half to death with this. Now when walking her i can walk her with jus a choke, but as she never pulls its never pulled against her throat, as shes a escape artist its always kept on her more for ID reasons now.

All are puppies we've bred in the past had leather collars, and ive always found it so easy training a puppy with treats, toys and praise. I dont think pups need choke chains, if anyone knows how to be with dogs, how they think and how to train them they will know how quickly most pups will pick a trick up.



I dont see a problem with choke chains if they are used correctly and not a solution to ridding a dog of a certain undesired behaviour, numerous times ive seen people dragging their dogs on these to the point they are choking, iv'e even seen these stupid chavs picking their poor staff pup up by the collar, i think there def needs to be instructions sold with them and maybe an age limit so these stupid kids cant buy them to abuse their dogs with.


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## Polly Pocket (Nov 20, 2011)

Would not touch a check chain with a barge pole. I dont think most people are generally aware of just how much damage one of these can inflict on a dog. Its better never to let a dog get into the habit of pulling than look for a 'quick fix cure'.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Polly Pocket said:


> Would not touch a check chain with a barge pole. I dont think most people are generally aware of just how much damage one of these can inflict on a dog. Its better never to let a dog get into the habit of pulling than look for a 'quick fix cure'.


Is that a lancashire heeler in your avatar? What a cutie!


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

Polly Pocket said:


> Would not touch a check chain with a barge pole. I dont think most people are generally aware of just how much damage one of these can inflict on a dog. Its better never to let a dog get into the habit of pulling than look for a 'quick fix cure'.




indeed it does inflect dmage and emosional damage aswell.....if i touch my dogs choker now he bares his teeth and picks up his coller, on his own its amazing to see him bring me his coller


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## Polly Pocket (Nov 20, 2011)

Well spotted! Not many people recognise the breed. She's just turned 12 is in A1 health, has more energy than me and is more like a pup than a senior citizen.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Polly Pocket said:


> Well spotted! Not many people recognise the breed. She's just turned 12 is in A1 health, has more energy than me and is more like a pup than a senior citizen.


Awww :flrt: they're such good looking wee souls! Glad she's getting on so well for you :2thumb:


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## swampeh (Dec 4, 2011)

Personally i dont like choke chains and would'nt use them ever there are many different things on the market that can help to stop a dog pulling.

I have 4 dogs of my own and have fostered 24 for our local greyhound and lurcher rescue, my whippet thinks shes a pitbull so with her i use a dogmatic, ive had other dogs that ive fostered that have used a half check or halti or there are the mikki or lupi antipull harnesses or better still get a beautiful martingale collar which you can get in what ever design you want.

Btw here are my fur babies riley, daisy and thistle









and sonny


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

swampeh said:


> Personally i dont like choke chains and would'nt use them ever there are many different things on the market that can help to stop a dog pulling.
> 
> I have 4 dogs of my own and have fostered 24 for our local greyhound and lurcher rescue, my whippet thinks shes a pitbull so with her i use a dogmatic, ive had other dogs that ive fostered that have used a half check or halti or there are the mikki or lupi antipull harnesses or better still get a beautiful martingale collar which you can get in what ever design you want.
> 
> ...



may i ask where you got that muzzle my boxer, as a issue with fighting other dogs, and eating stones from the floor for some reason


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## swampeh (Dec 4, 2011)

Hope i can be of help, all of mine wear breezie muzzles which our friend gets from the greyhound shop but you can also get different types from ebay.
You have the greyhound and lurcher type breezie and box muzzles then you have the mikki cloth muzzles but for a boxer i would look into the baskerville muzzles which are more suited to there face shape.
At first you'll get funny looks but after a while you wont pay any attention to the undereducated people who take 1 look at the muzzle and freak out.
Muzzles are not just there for aggressive dogs they also save me regular trips to the vets when my 4 play too rough or like you said to stop your boxer eating stones etc.
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Hope this helps :2thumb:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i got a baskerville for my flabrador who used to eat stones and broken glass etc when on walks,

it only too a few weeks for her to stop it after wearing one, best fiver i`ve spent.

i am going to try her on a choke chain though, cant stop her pulling!


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## FelixFelicis (Jun 4, 2010)

Would never use a choke chain, would much prefer to use positive reinforcement techniques wherever possible. Much kinder and just as effective, may take more time and patience but I believe it results in a better understanding and a better relationship with the dog.


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> i got a baskerville for my flabrador who used to eat stones and broken glass etc when on walks,
> 
> it only too a few weeks for her to stop it after wearing one, best fiver i`ve spent.
> 
> i am going to try her on a choke chain though, cant stop her pulling!



thanks big help, and if your dog listens to when you say NO or STOP then a tug on a choker and that words should snap her out of it, as i cant do that with my dog him being deaf from birth.


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

Again, I'm not entirely anti choke chain, but you have to know what you're doing to use one. You are not supposed to yank the dog around with them, or pull them really tight, it should be a very quick and slight tighten and instant release, in fact it should be the noise of the chain and not the tightening that does the trick, much like using training discs to get your dogs attention. I would say that 99% of people don't know how to use a choke chain correctly, many don't even know how to put one on the right way round!
They were originally designed not as a training tool, but as a quick release method for police dogs etc, and even they don't use them any more! 
They can be useful if you have a dog which has learnt to back out of its collar, but a half check or a slip lead is just a effective.
They are not good for dogs that constantly pull or suddenly lunges, in fact they could end up causing physical damage, torn neck mussels, damaged wind pipe, even spinal damage. If you have a dog that pulls then something like a Lupi harness or a head collar will solve the problem almost instantly and give you much more control. Any dog that I have had from a puppy has learnt to walk on a lead using a head collar. Once they have learnt to walk nicely, by my side, I then walk them on an ordinary collar and have never had any problems with pulling. If a dog doesn't learn how to pull from day 1 the chances are it never will.
As for pinch/prong collars, they are barbaric and should be made illegal! If you are one of those people that use one then here's a suggestion for you. Put is around your arm and give it a good yank! How much does that hurt? It's not nice when you do the same with a choke chain let alone a pinch collar. Do you really want to inflict pain on your dog? If you have a dog that pulls so much you can't control it then maybe you have chosen the wrong breed for you, there again you might want to sign up for some dog training lessons and learn how to control you dog properly without having to resort to causing it pain!
I know I stand the risk of being shot down in flames here, but anyone who needs to resort to pain to control their dog is obviously doing something wrong! Why,in the days when everyone recommends kind, reward based training methods and there are so many humane training aids available, does anyone feel they need to use unkind, cruel methods on their dogs. If anyone can give me a good sound reason I AM willing to listen to it.....


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

lupis are great for dogs that cant wear a collar, but totally useless in another way, because they just back out of them and :censor: off down the street.


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

LOL! They shouldn't do if fitted properly.
I tend to use anything like that, Lupi, headcollar, with a double ended lead, one end attached to whatever training aid you use the other to an ordinary collar, this end kept slack. 
BTW, for all those who don't use ordinary collars when they take their dogs out, including those who's dogs can't be walked on a collar for medical reasons, it is actually a legal requirement that your dog wears a collar with an ID disc fitted when out of the house, even if your dog is micro-chipped or tattooed it still needs to wear a collar and disc.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

my bulldog used to reverse out of her lupi on a regualr basis even though it was fitted correctly.

and you cant put a collar on a dog who`s neck is wider than its head, unless a hammer and nails are used, lol.

not all dogs/situations fit into the `norm`


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

I see your problem! :gasp: Bulldogs aren't normal, lovely, but certainly in a league of their own!
And super glue is much kinder than hammer and nails!


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

dragons jen said:


> Again, I'm not entirely anti choke chain, but you have to know what you're doing to use one. You are not supposed to yank the dog around with them, or pull them really tight, it should be a very quick and slight tighten and instant release, in fact it should be the noise of the chain and not the tightening that does the trick, much like using training discs to get your dogs attention. I would say that 99% of people don't know how to use a choke chain correctly, many don't even know how to put one on the right way round!
> They were originally designed not as a training tool, but as a quick release method for police dogs etc, and even they don't use them any more!
> They can be useful if you have a dog which has learnt to back out of its collar, but a half check or a slip lead is just a effective.
> They are not good for dogs that constantly pull or suddenly lunges, in fact they could end up causing physical damage, torn neck mussels, damaged wind pipe, even spinal damage. If you have a dog that pulls then something like a Lupi harness or a head collar will solve the problem almost instantly and give you much more control. Any dog that I have had from a puppy has learnt to walk on a lead using a head collar. Once they have learnt to walk nicely, by my side, I then walk them on an ordinary collar and have never had any problems with pulling. If a dog doesn't learn how to pull from day 1 the chances are it never will.
> ...



yes thats what i ment i dident mean you start ragging the dog around, a straight snap of the wrist


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

JakeTheDragon said:


> yes thats what i ment i dident mean you start ragging the dog around, a straight snap of the wrist


I dont know if you are suggesting using a choke chain with your Boxer.It certainly didn`t work with mine.She is so exciteable that she would pull all the time to the point of vomitting.Even if I gave her a sharp tug she would see a leaf or horse or something and the excitement would take over and she would start pulling.I decided that it was not good for her and use an easy leader.I think that it depends how exciteable your dog is.


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## JakeTheDragon (Dec 19, 2011)

colinm said:


> I dont know if you are suggesting using a choke chain with your Boxer.It certainly didn`t work with mine.She is so exciteable that she would pull all the time to the point of vomitting.Even if I gave her a sharp tug she would see a leaf or horse or something and the excitement would take over and she would start pulling.I decided that it was not good for her and use an easy leader.I think that it depends how exciteable your dog is.


 
i already did try it and it turned the same as yours, it went to the extent that he pased out. so i had to poor water on him, his a very big lad and very hyper....we were just goin to get an extendable so he can just roam and not be pulling, this is my hyperactive boy at work  Clyde dare you to move - YouTube as a pup we were in the woods and fort...what is he runs of when he isent on the lead so...we took him off the lead and hid behind a tree, he learned to stay by us or hed get lost witch was handy and you see that trick in action in that video at.... 2:20


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

theres no chance of me using an easy leader or halti with mine, cant even get the harness on her anymore.


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## dragons jen (Aug 31, 2008)

I've seen a lot of Bulldogs on TV who seem to like using skateboards, Might be a solution to any problems you have!
:lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

the bullys unfortunatly no longer with us, its the brown flabrador thats the problem!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

I have used - 

Check Chains
Half Checks and
Prong collars
Each one ive been taught how to use correctly by a very good behaviourist ( in my opinion )

Having know what i know how, i would never walk a dog that pulls on a harness or a simple flat collar, Harnesses just plainly because i dont like them plus it always amazes me to see a Husky on a harness pulling its owner along the road, What doe these type of dogs use when they are pulling sleighs? Yup harnesses so its only natural for them i suppose. Flat collars do more damage to the trachea than people realise because the pressure of the pull in all in the front of the collar instead of being distributed around the neck.

Using a Half check, Full check or Prong collar isnt meant to hurt a dog and shouldnt be used by someone who doesnt know how to use it correctly.

I've also seen idiots with head haltis that arent on properly or the owner is yanking the head of the dog, surely this is going to cause more neck strain/damage that a check/prong would?

I once got a mouth full of abuse off a elderly lady because i had Barni ( my terrier x ) on a check because he was a pain in the butt with pulling which was made worst by my naviety of first getting hima nd putting him on a harness :devil:

I also cant stand clicker training, waste of blooming time and those that give advice to ignore bad behaviour :lol2: Training takes longer when you ignore rather than correct im not saying belt your dog when it misbehaves but correct what it doing until it does what you ask.

I.E Ive recently taught Barni to Roll over at first he did it very well and didnt do it until i told him to, Well since being caught out by my dad and brother getting him to do it they have no confused the poor dog getting him to do a million tricks at once, Barni now has forgotten how to "down" of command without going stright into roll over. If i was to just ignore it then id be there for hours, days possibly weeks until he picked it up again. I know stick my foot out to stop him rolling over when i tell him to down. 

Im off on a rant now haha too much to rant about these days :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

O and i most certainly wouldnt use any kind of check collar on a puppy, Its far easier to train a pup without the use of these training methods than it is a older dog.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> I have used -
> 
> Check Chains
> Half Checks and
> ...


Im currently training our new 6 month old Smooth Coat Chihuahua boy Dexter, to help with his show training, with very good results. Its a great way of getting a dog to understand what you ask of them, & it has been proven that the sound of a clicker (or other high pitched noises) actually stimulate a dog's brain & help to establish positive meanings & pleasure.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> I have used -
> 
> Check Chains
> Half Checks and
> ...


Most dogs trained to do doggy dancing are trained using clicker training, unless you and your dog can do better without having used a clicker then Im sure it is not a waste of time.

I do not understand how you can think one side is rubbish if, had you really understood how a check chain/half check should work, you would understand that they are just a different side of the same coin.

A check chain SHOULD be used to help with other methods of teaching a dog to heel. Just as you would walking a dog on a flat collar say no and bring them back to where you want them before walking on, the check collar simply replaces the NO, instead of the voice the sound of the chain reminds them. You have to teach them what that sound means and what to do when they hear it.

The clicker training is just the reverse side of the same method, instead of replacing NO it simply replaces YES/Well Done but with a bonus of being a shorter and therefore allowing far more accurate timing than the spoken word. Again it is a tool to use whilst training you have to teach them what that sound means and train them what to do when they hear it...or rather what to do to get to hear it.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

I knew the whole positive / negative training argument would come up :lol2:

If you can train a goldfish to play basketball, a mouse to do agility and a cockroach to play pool using positive reinforcement then I think it's clearly evident that it does work as a training philosophy. A clicker is only a targeting device - you can use verbal cues, hand signals etc.

Having said that, I do use verbal corrections so I'm not an entirely positive trainer but owning a breed that doesn't have the same motivation towards obedience as the majority of commonly owned breeds, I wouldn't go back to 'traditional' methods because they're just not the most effective way of communicating.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Kare said:


> Most dogs trained to do doggy dancing are trained using clicker training, unless you and your dog can do better without having used a clicker then Im sure it is not a waste of time.
> 
> I do not understand how you can think one side is rubbish if, had you really understood how a check chain/half check should work, you would understand that they are just a different side of the same coin.
> 
> ...





Zoo-Man said:


> Im currently training our new 6 month old Smooth Coat Chihuahua boy Dexter, to help with his show training, with very good results. Its a great way of getting a dog to understand what you ask of them, & it has been proven that the sound of a clicker (or other high pitched noises) actually stimulate a dog's brain & help to establish positive meanings & pleasure.


 
Sorry meant to say its a waste of my blooming time :blush: Me and clicker training just dont work, Ive tried it a countless number of times and it just doesnt happen its not my timing because i clicker trained my lovebird just me + Clicker + dog = waste of time haha


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## LarkaDawg (Aug 2, 2011)

When my parsons terrier was a puppy, we were advised to get a half check chain collar to use on lead. I found it useful because when using it, I could just tap the lead backwards (when pulling on a lead or telling her to stop) and it would make the metal sound, which grabbed her attention at which I could say 'heel' or 'wait' or something. We don't have it anymore (dog ate it lol) and I probably would only bother if the pulling was a real problem. 
Instead of the half check, I say 'ah!' a short and throaty sound that both my dog respond to.
I wouldn't use a check chain (choke) or whatever on a puppy, but my grandparents have a rescue german shepherd and an Australian collie mix that both have choke chains as collars. Whenever they grab them, it tightens around their throat, but they're boisterous dogs and keep pulling and pulling, then stepping back to cough and get air!
I disagree with check chains/choke chains but think half checks are useful to a certain extent (not being used to constrict the dogs neck, but as a noise).


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