# Bearded Dragon Help Required



## JanR (Feb 28, 2010)

I am new to this and trying to set up a viv for my son. We have a 4'x2'x2' viv.

Where should I place the thermometer sensor?
Where should I place the thermostat sensor?

Thank you

Jan


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## licklick (Feb 26, 2010)

:welcome:you need to put the stat sensor at the cool end of viv and get that temp to around 80f and have different height basking spots so beardie can thermo regulate to suit itself, and you need thermometers at both ends,the digital ones are recommended(you can get them with 2 probes to keep an eye on temp at either end)the stick on ones only read air temp and are not too reliable


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## JanR (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you . . . 

Should I attach the thermometer sensors to the sides of the viv? Should the basking light and uvb light be on all the time?


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

If you are going to put the sensor probe in the cooler end of the viv, you will need to put your temperature monitor probes (or actual monitors if don't have probes on them) in the two most important places that need to be monitored. This will be where it gets warmest where they 'bask' to heat up and the other will need to be where it stays coolest where they will go when they need to cool down. 

Beardies thermo regulate by going to whichever part of the viv they need to go to in order to maintain the right temperature for them at any specific time, so by monitoring the two 'opposite extremes' and keeping them right is the best way to ensure your beardie can keep their temperature at what they need it to be. eg. warmer after eating to help them digest their food, and cooler when sleeping etc.

I have both my UV light and my heat bulb on a timer so that mine are getting similar to what they would in the wild. In the summer I have the light and heat on approx 14 hours a day and in winter approx 12 hours a day.

I also put a cat litter tray in the cool end of the viv with play sand in it so he can dig if wants to without sand going all over area where he eats, so lessening the chance of impactation from eating sand. There is also a large fake rock structure in the sand pit that he can either hide under if he wants to, but it does not totally obstuct the light... he also likes to climb on this...
pic of my setup for idea of what I am trying to explain...


























He's in a much bigger viv now, but still similar set up - you can tell from last pic he was much smaller when we first had him.

Sorry about dog in piccie's but they are bossom pals, and we call the beardie's viv doggy tv... as they love to sit and watch each other... :lol2:

Hope this helps... J


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## CCMOORE (Jun 24, 2008)

WOW, all these contradicting answers.

I personally would put the thermostat prob in the center of the vivarium about 2-3 inches of the floor. This will give you the average temperature so then under your spot bulb at the hot end it will be slightly hotter and down your cool end where there is no heating it will be slightly cooler, this will provide the perfect condition for your Bearded Dragon to thermoregulate.
You want the average temp to be around 86 degrees then the hot end will be in the 90's and cool end in the 70's.

Hope this helps, i have been keeping and breeding Bearded Dragons for 18years now and this method has worked fine for me.


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

*Dragon advice*

If you only have the 1 thermometer you should position it central, if it gets too close to the heat source then the temperature will not be so acurate, also position it close to the ground level maybe 6 or 7 inches above the substrate, because that's where your Dragon will be most of the time.
With regards to the thermostat if you are going to use 1 its best to monitor the hot end of the viv, as Dragons can quickly get too hot, the cool end of the viv wouldn't need to be monitored really, if you have the hot end temperatures right, that being said I once used a thermostat when i first bought my dragons and they hated it! If you do use 1 you might find your dragon would prefer the thermostat linked to the heat mat rather than the heat bulb, because the bulb flashes on and off when the viv is at the required temp that you have set on the thermostat, as you can imagine dragons, being 'light loving lizards', do not appreciate lights flashing on and off.
We have used timers to control the heat the last few years, and have never had a problem, Beardies may not be bulletproof, but they are quite hardy reptiles when it comes to temperature.:flrt:


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## JanR (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you for all your help guys I seem to have everything set up now. We want to get 2 beardies and I was advised against getting 2 males as they may fight also advised getting a male and a female as the female could have problems if mating????

We have almost decided that it will have to be 2 females . . . 

Your help and advice on this subject would be much appreciated


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

young beardies are hard to sex, so you might wanna just get one for now...also getting two females wont definately eman that they'll get along...they could be bullying and such still


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## ambient one (Dec 22, 2009)

Two females shouldn't be a problem, I've had boys so I can't comment a great deal but one on it's own will be quite happy as they don't require company - if you do put two females together, I think I'm right in thinking they'd need to be related... Ask woodrott, he answered a LOT of questions for me when I had problems. My beardie is happy now. Good luck!


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

Two females are not a probloem together, nor do they need to be related, all you need to be sure of is that they are relatively the same size and have adequate space to hunt and do what all beardies love doing( running around like idiots half of the time lol) this way 1 beardie shouldn't bully the other.

Personally if you just wanted a pet you would probably be better off just getting a male, because in my experience males are usually more personable and they interact more with ppl. Females are awesome aswell but I find that all male Dragons have different personalities and traits where as with females its only the odd few which are different. For example my 1 boy will quite happily go nuts if he sees me banging his head and scratching at the glass to get out. If I let him out he either runs around like an excited puppy or he falls asleep on my arm by the crook of my elbow, completely chilled out. Whereas with my girls ruby, lecter n Tiger are very similar, Ruby is good as gold and just tries to sit on your shoulder by any means, Tiger whips her tail a lot and so does lecter but both try to either sit on shoulders or run off!
My other 2 girls Pebs and Nemo both like to come out and explore and if they are hungry they jump at the glass and look out.
I have got another 4 males but they are all just so different in every way that I might as well write an essey if I was to note down all their personalities, but I'm sure you get the picutre.

When you choose your Dragons ask the breeder or shop assistant if you can hold them for 5 mins just to see which 1s you think are the 1s with the best personalities that way if your set on 2 females you might just be lucky and get the 2 coolest 1s there!


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## gravitation (Nov 4, 2009)

Get one beardie, they are solitary animals.

Anyone who houses more than one bearded together has decided to risk their animals well being for the sake of saving space.

Sure, it can and does work but there will always be an element of risk. I've heard way too many horror stories.


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

> Anyone who houses more than one bearded together has decided to risk their animals well being for the sake of saving space.


Actually it's not usually for space saving, the reason why people( myself included when I bought my first 2 dragons ) tend to buy 2 animals is to see them interact with each other and if your set on 2 females and both are guaranteed to be female, well, whats the risk?? I have 5 female Dragons in a 7 x 3 x 2ft viv, they get on well together and always have, and correct me if Im wrong but a viv that size is hardly space saving when i could easily separate them all off into 3ft vivs stacked on top of each other.
Dragons don't really need company if you play with them a lot but Im sure anything could get lonely by itself most of the time especially when as babies the majority of captive bred Dragons are housed in groups. There are other good reasons why 2 is better than 1, such as if 1 Dragon is eating the other is encouraged to eat also. I have all my vivs positioned so that even the males can see either each other or the girls, and when I put 1 dragon downstairs away from the others a few weeks ago, I did notice that he wasn't so active, eating a hell of a lot less and looked dull and blatently bored. Why do you think Dragons on their lonesome interact with humans? Its because they need company or anything really to stimulate them.

In answer to your question about 2 girls together great idea, as long as your sure of the sex, I'm sure it gets confusing with every1s different opinions but there are a lot of caresheets on the net and Im sure a few reptile shop owners( no dissrespect to any1 but I wouldnt advise pets at home) could also give you their opinions and advise you. You should also gain some knowledge in experience shortly. Anyways I've had a rant, lol, all the best to you and your future pets!


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## gravitation (Nov 4, 2009)

Mikazuki said:


> Actually it's not usually for space saving, the reason why people( myself included when I bought my first 2 dragons ) tend to buy 2 animals is to see them interact with each other and if your set on 2 females and both are guaranteed to be female, well, whats the risk?? I have 5 female Dragons in a 7 x 3 x 2ft viv, they get on well together and always have, and correct me if Im wrong but a viv that size is hardly space saving when i could easily separate them all off into 3ft vivs stacked on top of each other.
> Dragons don't really need company if you play with them a lot but Im sure anything could get lonely by itself most of the time especially when as babies the majority of captive bred Dragons are housed in groups. There are other good reasons why 2 is better than 1, such as if 1 Dragon is eating the other is encouraged to eat also. I have all my vivs positioned so that even the males can see either each other or the girls, and when I put 1 dragon downstairs away from the others a few weeks ago, I did notice that he wasn't so active, eating a hell of a lot less and looked dull and blatently bored. Why do you think Dragons on their lonesome interact with humans? Its because they need company or anything really to stimulate them.


Females fight, believe it or not. I've known two owners personally with females that had to be seperated and one of those females came out less a leg in the end.

Interacting is fine, but they still don't have to live together. Isn't it a hell of alot safer to house them seperately and take them out of their enclosures and monitor their interaction? That's what i do.

And to deny there being a risk (even with two females) is crap. You can never guarantee a fight won't break out or even an accident will occur when there is more than one animal in an enclosure and you won't always be home to witness it.

One beardie is the safe sensible option especially for a beginner who might not recognize aggression, anyone who queries that is simply taking offense because they've decided on another arrangement.


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## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Jan
Please try not to be put off by some of the contradicting answers and often 'strong' feelings people display on here.... :lol2: Read up as much as you can, and then make your own decision on what you feel is i).best for the animal and ii). best for your situation.

People will always have confliciting opinions, it is part of life... just be aware that if you do go for two animals, you will need to monitor them very closely, not only at the start of their time together, but throughout their lives, as it has been known for two apparently compatible animals to come to blows, and this can cost a lot in vets bills or possibly even worse.

Know the facts... the decisions are up to you..... Best of luck with whatever you decide... J :2thumb:


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

gravitation said:


> Females fight, believe it or not. I've known two owners personally with females that had to be seperated and one of those females came out less a leg in the end.
> 
> Interacting is fine, but they still don't have to live together. Isn't it a hell of alot safer to house them seperately and take them out of their enclosures and monitor their interaction? That's what i do.
> 
> ...




OK so you 'know' ppl, have you actually had that happen to you??
Because Ive never come across a situation arrising from 2 female dragons together unless they are different sizes, in which case it is a dominant trait that all dragons will pick on something smaller and weaker regardless of sex, and BTW I CAN guarantee that fights will not break out between my females, and I have not only gotten that from experience but also from a herpetologist who has been doing this for god knows how many years, and brought his first dragons into the UK when the Dragon craze started, he said it was around about 8-10 years ago, you can call it crap all you like, just remember you opinion is crap if you can only go by the fact that you've known ppl who it happened to, get your facts straight, it is very rare that females do not get on and like I said it will more often or not be to do with size which is why I said no problems if they are the same size.

It may be irrisponsible in your eyes but a lot of ppl have gone into a shop and bought 2 animals and been fine, it is not the norm for females to fight, period.


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## Exotic Mad (Jul 11, 2009)

Mikazuki said:


> OK so you 'know' ppl, have you actually had that happen to you??
> Because Ive never come across a situation arrising from 2 female dragons together unless they are different sizes, in which case it is a dominant trait that all dragons will pick on something smaller and weaker regardless of sex, and BTW I CAN guarantee that fights will not break out between my females, and I have not only gotten that from experience but also from a herpetologist who has been doing this for god knows how many years, and brought his first dragons into the UK when the Dragon craze started, he said it was around about 8-10 years ago, you can call it crap all you like, just remember you opinion is crap if you can only go by the fact that you've known ppl who it happened to, get your facts straight, *it is very rare that females do not get on* and like I said it will more often or not be to do with size which is why I said no problems if they are the same size.
> 
> It may be irrisponsible in your eyes but a lot of ppl have gone into a shop and bought 2 animals and been fine, it is not the norm for females to fight, period.


i think the bit in bold says it all. most get on yes. lots of peole kee them together yes. so do i but you have to accept that there is always a risk of fighting and for a beginner 1 would be more sensible until they learn dragon behaviour therefore learning to spot signs that things aren't right. i have personally have 2 females of the same age and size fight but also had lots that didn't. as previously said lots get on but the risk is always there if you keep them together. much the same as if you keep any animal together even dogs, gerbils etc etc etc


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

That I can agree with but with life long cage mates I dont see any risk as opposed to dragons getting used to a life of solitude only then to years later be dumped in with a companion. There you are going to get problems as with any animal, if you were going to get 2 and had your heart set on it I would advise get 2 together, rather than years later wanting another 1. I do not think it s fair to advise some1 to only get 1, when really they want 2 because I done the same thing and even though ppl might say i was irresponsible I have never once regretted making that decision, also I think it is unfair to assume that a newbe can't recognise agression or dominance, that is more to do with experience you gain quite quickly once you have obtained your pets, it is fairly easy to recognise with dragons because they are not very subtle.

There is also a risk of putting a female in with a male to breed, and I wouldn't be surprised if ppl on this forum say they object to it because males get aggressive( as do the girls get annoyed some times ) but hey, if the girls weren't put through that, then a lot of ppl, myself included, wouldn't have any Dragons, look at wht we'd be missing out on!

And again that is something I never regretted doing because, ok pebs has got a few scars granted, but she has had some of the most beautiful babies I have ever witnessed, and to see them hatching out is even better! Some of those babies I kept back and the pride you feel seeing how beautiful those dragons are and how much they look like theyre parents is unimaginable! 

At the end of the day, you will always get different opinions on a forum because ppl think differently and have witnessed different things, what some ppl think of as irresponsible, others see it as the best thing that has ever happened to them. Take into account what you see or hear but go by gut instinct also. Signs of dominance from juvenile dragons are head bobbing, nipping etc, but that doesnt always mean they will grow up to be dominant adult dragons, its more about knowing the personalities of the dragons you own. And that is something ppl cannot tell you unless they have raised those dragons themselves. All Dragons are different and have different needs, proffessionals and ppl that think of themselves as experts on Beardies, get real becuase what might go for your dragons may not be the case with some1 elses, what you read or see is not always the case for some1 else's pet. If you read everything on a forum you will go around the twist and just wont bother owning a pet becasue it seems too confusing and complicated.Sometimes you have to just jump in with both feet and if ppl think thats irresponsible tuff, that's life, if your overly cautious you could miss out on a lot of opportunities. I have always taken risks and just dived in, my pets are fine, Im happy and Ive gained a lot of knowledge on the way, Never will I ever regret any of it. So to those of you that are cautious, good for you, but don't call ppl irresponsible because they have a different opinion. If you want 2 have 2 just keep an eye on them and make sure they are around the same size, have adequate space light, heat etc, worked fine for me and other countless ppl Im sure, all the best future Dragon owner xxx


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## Vicki&Karl (Nov 22, 2009)

*Bearded dragon question*

Hi Ya, i'm pretty new to keeping reptiles but i have two 11 week old bearded dragons and they have both shed in the past week but both of them have quite dull/ grey looking tails. Is this a problem? and what would be causing this? I bathe them every couple of days in a warm bath which they seem to enjoy but i just want to check i'm doing the right thing :blush:









Mikazuki said:


> Two females are not a probloem together, nor do they need to be related, all you need to be sure of is that they are relatively the same size and have adequate space to hunt and do what all beardies love doing( running around like idiots half of the time lol) this way 1 beardie shouldn't bully the other.
> 
> Personally if you just wanted a pet you would probably be better off just getting a male, because in my experience males are usually more personable and they interact more with ppl. Females are awesome aswell but I find that all male Dragons have different personalities and traits where as with females its only the odd few which are different. For example my 1 boy will quite happily go nuts if he sees me banging his head and scratching at the glass to get out. If I let him out he either runs around like an excited puppy or he falls asleep on my arm by the crook of my elbow, completely chilled out. Whereas with my girls ruby, lecter n Tiger are very similar, Ruby is good as gold and just tries to sit on your shoulder by any means, Tiger whips her tail a lot and so does lecter but both try to either sit on shoulders or run off!
> My other 2 girls Pebs and Nemo both like to come out and explore and if they are hungry they jump at the glass and look out.
> ...


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## stevenw (Feb 28, 2009)

gravitation said:


> Females fight, believe it or not. I've known two owners personally with females that had to be seperated and one of those females came out less a leg in the end.
> 
> Interacting is fine, but they still don't have to live together. Isn't it a hell of alot safer to house them seperately and take them out of their enclosures and monitor their interaction? That's what i do.
> 
> ...



spot on females are no differant they can and WILL form a order of dominance meaning fighting bullying i have two females pretty much the exactly the same size and one is aggressive in the viv and out of the viv towards the other female ... if both are fiesty dragons as they get older they will fight ... and besides they dont interact they PUT UP
with the other dragon ... females are not always fine together and should be monitered .. im not saying you cant keep females together but one will be the dominant one therefore will not be like it would if provided with its own sanctuary .... good luck ... also regards stats .. if your using bulbs get a dimmer stat this way no flashing bulbs ... also its not wrong to put the stat probe in either end as long as your temps are stable and correct this could all depend of where the viv is placed in your house ie .. i have two 4ft x18x18 - with a 60w bulb on a dimmer placed in hot end .. however i have another 4ft by 2ft by 2ft i have had to place the stat in the cooler end as my temps in the bottom half were well below recommend ... so i had to move the stat around until i got them correct hope this helps and they are in the same room


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## stevenw (Feb 28, 2009)

also the dragons im talking about were purchased together housed together ... well for 12 hrs then i was out buying a new set up .... yeah thats cool .... im sorry but i have never heard a so called breeder with such irresponsable advice !

summed up by 

And again that is something I never regretted doing because, ok pebs has got a few scars granted ! ..


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## stevenw (Feb 28, 2009)

Mikazuki said:


> Actually it's not usually for space saving, the reason why people( myself included when I bought my first 2 dragons ) tend to buy 2 animals is to see them interact with each other and if your set on 2 females and both are guaranteed to be female, well, whats the risk?? I have 5 female Dragons in a 7 x 3 x 2ft viv, they get on well together and always have, and correct me if Im wrong but a viv that size is hardly space saving when i could easily separate them all off into 3ft vivs stacked on top of each other.
> Dragons don't really need company if you play with them a lot but Im sure anything could get lonely by itself most of the time especially when as babies the majority of captive bred Dragons are housed in groups. There are other good reasons why 2 is better than 1, such as if 1 Dragon is eating the other is encouraged to eat also. I have all my vivs positioned so that even the males can see either each other or the girls, and when I put 1 dragon downstairs away from the others a few weeks ago, I did notice that he wasn't so active, eating a hell of a lot less and looked dull and blatently bored. Why do you think Dragons on their lonesome interact with humans? Its because they need company or anything really to stimulate them.
> 
> In answer to your question about 2 girls together great idea, as long as your sure of the sex, I'm sure it gets confusing with every1s different opinions but there are a lot of caresheets on the net and Im sure a few reptile shop owners( no dissrespect to any1 but I wouldnt advise pets at home) could also give you their opinions and advise you. You should also gain some knowledge in experience shortly. Anyways I've had a rant, lol, all the best to you and your future pets!



ok you say whats the risk - the risk is your not there one starts been aggressive and a fight breaks out there is no where for the dragon to escape to ... females are dominant also ... alot of people work etc are not there enough to monitor this .. you also say it enciurages others to eat .. it also encourages fights i have seen this many occasions on dragons kept in pairs or groups ...

i wouldnt recommend you or pets at home ..sorry but its true


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

so called breeder?
enough of the jibes and yes pebs, my beloved female Dragon has got scars,
ALL FROM MALE DRAGONS DURING BREEDING.
If thats irresponsible, find me a male with the same genes as my boy red to create the same stunning babies that does not get a little over excited with a female. If they mate once your going to get cuts on the females neck and scratches on the legs sometimes.Thats nature if every breeder thought "oh no! how irresponsible of me she has a cut that will heal up in a few days and ppl will say I shouldn't have put them together because she will be marked" You yourself would not have any dragons. All boys are that way inclined Ive 1 Male whose bite is not so bad, he takes a layer of skin off and the girls do not bleed but he's fairly young, and even then they are still marked, and the problem with that male is that he's so tiny and insignificant compared to the other boys that the girls don't want to know. The more dominant the male is the more injurys your going to get and the more the girls approve of them. 

And with ALL girls being dominant, hell no!
Come over mine any time and give me your profesional opinion then on how my girls behave there is no dominance, nothing, they quietly go about theyre business and theres not even any dominance over the heat spots, they all lie down next to each other and seem content after a day filled with running around, digging, eating and pooping a hell of a lot.

Im sorry if i gave bad advice( and slated ppl, that was wrong I just get easily wound up, I Do regret it but cant take anything back on a forum) it was not meant that way i have just never come across a female misbehaving towards another female, nor have any of my friends, associates and other ppl i talk to daily,weekly etc( basically anyone that is not on the internet) come across females that way inclined. My mate will, his female( one of mine) was head bobbing at his m8s when he looked after them, but that was it, wills friend's female bobbed her head back and that was that. He had them for 2 weeks and I recognise dominance and even checked again that quaz was female, but they got on fine, no dominance over food, heat or anything just a dominant communication( which confused the hell outta me). Now will is saying that he's going to have to get a cheap adult girl because quaz looks lonely. That I dont agree with, she is accustomed to being on her own and prob doesn't bother her, but then again I dont know the workings of a dragons mind and how( or if, though im sure they do) think. Is there someone on here that claims to be doctor do little? If so can you please shed some light. 

So experts, what have I done wrong? Ok so I gave crap advice unknowingly, because i Have never encountered females giving other females a hard time. You have, so according to you, all females should be kept seperate, because thats your experience. Fair enough, sometimes though things are not always black and white, I have recognised that and learnt something, maybe you should too.


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

stevenw said:


> ok you say whats the risk - the risk is your not there one starts been aggressive and a fight breaks out there is no where for the dragon to escape to ... females are dominant also ... alot of people work etc are not there enough to monitor this .. you also say it enciurages others to eat .. it also encourages fights i have seen this many occasions on dragons kept in pairs or groups ...
> 
> i wouldnt recommend you or pets at home ..sorry but its true


There is no risk if your intending to keep an eye on them for a week or 2, if ppl are going to buy a pet dump it in a viv, then bugger off to work straight away without even looking at them, well then that shows how much care and the thought they have put into getting a pet. Even if ppl work and i do( night shifts full time) there is such a thing as a HOLIDAY.
When i got my dragons a few years back it was in june, I had been thinking about it for about 6 months, read up and whatever, like most ppl would, and when i had 2 weeks off, bought them. Its simple really, you can keep an eye on them if your there. If your not, then maybe a pet isn't something you should think seriously about. And you say you wouldn't recommend me? very funny, Im sure your opinion is taken with the highest regard oh great Dragon expert.


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## Mikazuki (Feb 6, 2010)

Vicki&Karl said:


> Hi Ya, i'm pretty new to keeping reptiles but i have two 11 week old bearded dragons and they have both shed in the past week but both of them have quite dull/ grey looking tails. Is this a problem? and what would be causing this? I bathe them every couple of days in a warm bath which they seem to enjoy but i just want to check i'm doing the right thing :blush:


Maybe you wont want my advice, seeing as how crap i apparently am, but either way, I suppose you can always do the opposite.

Take a photo, it could just be the colouration, 2 of my dragons have darker tails than the rest of their bodys, put the photo on here and then ppl can judge and give advice. It is hard to say whether or not it is serious, though from the sounds of it, its probably not, Dragons do change colour when they shed and as they get older their true colour becomes more apparant.
It is hard to understand the problem without seeing it, so that would be the best thing to do. Failing that, see your local herpetologist, I would put off the vet though for now, wait to see what Dragon lovers on here think first.

Hope this helps, as i said you could always do the opposite if you would rather.

Also, I would advise that you do not bathe your beloveds too often, as too much water for Dragons is a bad thing, about once a week is little enough, and should stop them from getting too stinky. 

Dont worry too much Im sure theyre ok, all the best x


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