# New Dart Frog Build



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well for some time now I`ve wanted to treat myself to some new vivs.
A couple of months ago I decided to bite the bullet and go for it.
Fed up with finding a new frog and then setting up a new viv for it and then having that little bit less room to move, I decided it`s time to build a new rack and set up a new batch of vivs.
So, out go the exo terras and in comes a raft of new vivs from Dale at DMS.
Recently he posted some pics of new vivs he was working on but didn`t say who owned them http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/968198-baks-september-2013-details-17.html they were mine.
Before giving Dale the sizes I wanted I sat down with a sheet of paper to draw out what I wanted.
The final design I settled on was for 2 vivs for my Terribs, each one 100cm long.
Above them 3 vivs for Tincs, each at 64cm long.
And finally above the Tincs 5 Pumilio vivs.
So after getting in touch with Dale it was off to get some lumber and start getting the racking built.
This is where it`s very handy to have a mate who is a joiner lol.
After building the rack in sections at his place it was a lot of fun assembling it all here with no room to swing a rat by it`s tail.
Eventually it all went together and then it was just a case of getting my hands on the new vivs.
There was so little room I could hardly get a photo of the racking.

Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

*sits down on the rug and eagerly awaits*


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been waiting for this since Mike told me his plans. This is going to be good :mf_dribble:


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## Dale63 (Oct 5, 2007)

come on Mike bring it on.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks guys, I hope I don`t let you down with this.
I`m under a bit of pressure because of the fact it`s all happening in my livingroom and Julia is being really patient about this.
The kitchen is jammed with shit lying around to make room for me to work on this and it`s been a struggle for me.
And of course this is being done right at the kitchen door and, as happens, I`m just getting going when I`ve to stop again to let people get past.
I`ve been working most of the time in a space 7ft x 2 1/2ft
But I`m getting there.
Dale was up here recently and he`ll tell you how little room I have here :lol2:.
I`ve been in to my mates shop every week as he gets his deliveries to get the pick of the bog wood and cork bark and I`ve managed to get my hands on some cracking pieces.
I`m struggling now with a lack of plants and other stuff but I should have enough to go around.
Now it`s all down to me and my lack of creativity :whistling2:.
15 vivs is going to do my head in lol.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ruddy heck mate a 2 1/2' space for working is bad enough,15 vivs at once,yup my head would hurt too

good luck buddy your a brave man!!

Stu


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Stu.
If you look at the photo`s you`ll get an idea how tight it`s been.
But it`s a bit better now, it`s gone up to 3ft lmao.


Mike


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> I`m struggling now with a lack of plants


Julia is gonna kill you before this is done!!! :lol2:

As far as plants go, what about good ol Pothos. You can always pull it when you want to replace it and it's cheap as dirt. I have it in a few vivs now and it's really *growing *on me. :blush:

Good luck with the builds, Mike!! :2thumb:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Glenn
Julia has thrown a lot of insults at me already, but she normally follows up with "it`ll be worth it when it`s finished".
When she`s in the kitchen though that's another matter, the curses are almost non stop.
I can`t blame her though she really is struggling for room in there.
Made worse by us getting another oven and hob 2 weeks ago which of course are still lying in there :bash:.
Anyway here are another couple of photos.
I put one of the vivs in place, mainly to see how they fit.
There was a lot at stake here between Dale being spot on with his sizes (I had faith) and me being spot on (I was short on faith lol).
After all it was me who did all the measuring so if it went wrong it fell on me to sort it.
Adam/Fatlad put me onto a material I was looking for to sit the vivs on.
I was after a rubberised matting to sit under the vivs to help cushion the bottoms and of course it`s non slip.
The non slip part was a proper pain for getting the vivs in and out for marking out drain holes etc.
But it`s done it`s job so all is well.
It can be got from Dunelm Mill and is used for under carpets etc to stop them sliding.


Mike


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

I went to visit Mike half way through the process. It was very very tight for space. It was starting to take shape and I could tell it was going to look brilliant when it was done it was already amazing when I went to visit.

You have done really well mate and you have patience of a saint so I don't know what that says for Julia! I won't say much more about how it looks but looking forward to popping round for a chin wag and to see the finished result

Liam


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

out of interest, how much did you pay for the material ? where i work it's 92p a ft and 4ft wide, altho slightly finer grade


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Liam.
You know the door is always open for you.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Mike ,you know how paranoid I am have you bolted the rack to the wall? with so much going on I'd rather say something now,I have a 40cmcube here which came from a guy whose rack went over,I couldn't bare ever hearing of that again mate

ha ha 3',don't worry mate I clocked it,worked in too many small bloody spaces me

Stu


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> out of interest, how much did you pay for the material ? where i work it's 92p a ft and 4ft wide, altho slightly finer grade


I forget now what it cost but it was cheap.
It was a metre wide by whatever length you want and I think it worked out at about £2 a square metre.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Mike ,you know how paranoid I am have you bolted the rack to the wall? with so much going on I'd rather say something now,I have a 40cmcube here which came from a guy whose rack went over,I couldn't bare ever hearing of that again mate
> 
> ha ha 3',don't worry mate I clocked it,worked in too many small bloody spaces me
> 
> Stu


Thanks for the heads up there Stu.
My mate the joiner made a point of telling me to do exactly that.
I`ve got 2 steel brackets fixed into the wall joists.
I`m sure the neighbours were wondering what all the hammering and tapping was as I was trying to find the beams lmao.
This rack is 2.35 metres tall so no way do I want it coming over.


Mike


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## Dale63 (Oct 5, 2007)

yes Mike room is very tight with all the working vivs and the new vivs. but it will get better as the vivs are done, and it will all look the dogs naggers.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Thanks for the heads up there Stu.
> My mate the joiner made a point of telling me to do exactly that.
> I`ve got 2 steel brackets fixed into the wall joists.
> I`m sure the neighbours were wondering what all the hammering and tapping was as I was trying to find the beams lmao.
> ...


Rock 'n' roll mate it's two fold going forward and to the side,even with the work I've done mate side to side nearly caught me,it's the combined weight of all the vivs. That poor guy Marc told me of when I b ought those cracked vivs years back,gives one mares mate.anyway your sorted and I'm happy: victory:

Stu


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

Looks good Mike, look forward to seeing it develop.

Does that viv have a false bottom? (doesnt look like it from the picture) .. any reason for that?

J


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## Dale63 (Oct 5, 2007)

Cornish-J said:


> Looks good Mike, look forward to seeing it develop.
> 
> Does that viv have a false bottom? (doesnt look like it from the picture) .. any reason for that?
> 
> J


 
Yes all of Mike's vivs are built with false bottoms but i can see what you mean.


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

ah ok, can't make it out in the picture!

Thanks Dale....was just wondering


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi J
Yes as Dale says they all have false bottoms.
But the glass is so clear I`m looking at the vivs and thinking the doors aint there so _I can see why your asking._

_Mike_


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Right then, onto the next instalment.
As a few know I collected the vivs from Dale at the BAKS meet and took them home on my mates big trailer.
Well it was a good run home and all was well, until 400 miles later and 3 streets from home I heard a bang.
Thanks to the local council and the assholes who make a mess of our roads with bad workmanship one of the vivs ended up with a huge chunk out of its base. (see first photo) And another was cracked.
Anyway after several dozen swear words describing our local council and their useless staff I got home and saw the damage.
Luckily because I`d given Dale the viv order at short notice he hadn`t quite finished the Pum vivs, so there was no risk to them.
Arrangements had been made to collect the other vivs from Dale 2 weeks later.
Well there was no point crying about it so my next job was to get the vivs in and find a home for them until I could get them into their place on the rack.
Now the fun started.
Having moved my other vivs around to assemble the new rack I had no room left for storing the new ones.
So my Bastis had vivs stacked up in front of their viv.
I had another viv on the settee and the 2 large ones sitting on the floor.
Just what I needed, no room to swing a gnat by it`s tail never mind the earlier rat.
Anyway I managed to get the rack sorted enough to start putting the vivs onto it so we could have some space back.
Having brought back from the BAKS meet a lovely pair of Citronellas I had to get my finger out and get at least one viv up and running as they were in a temp home.
I also needed to get the 2 big vivs ready for the Terribs so that I could get rid of their vivs to help make some space.
The work begins.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well I`m shooting forward a wee bit here.
I came home from work to find my new vivs have been christened already :2thumb:.


Mike


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## Dale63 (Oct 5, 2007)

i think it is down to the quality of your vivs.


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## leonwales (Apr 12, 2008)

Very nice vivs!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well the Citronellas have settled in nicely and I`m just waiting now for the plant life to get a hold and do what it does best.
Once everything is finished I`ll look at getting some more green stuff, and of course once the moss starts growing on the peat that`ll make a big difference.

Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

remember you talking to me about peat plates, you do like em eh Mike. i've been tempted to get the odd one for spots or walls. not seen much info on them tho, other than great for mosses


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Because I`ve been struggling for space it`s been a case of throw a viv together and get the frogs in and then furnish it later, almost.
Interestingly the Terribs have been a lot more active since moving them to their new vivs.
And it`s been a hoot watching them trying to get to each other through the glass into the other viv.
I was asked about the lighting I`m using.
I`m going to be using all LEDs.
On the Citronellas viv there is a bit of a mix of LEDs while I was making up some new ones to try.
The photos of the Terribs vivs will show better the route I`m going and you`ll also see the reasons for going with the LEDs.
The first 2 photos show the 2 vivs using the same LEDs over each one.
The 3rd one shows the "new" LEDs that I put together.
And the 4th photo shows the vivs with the same LEDs as the first 2 but one also has the new fitting added so that you can see the difference in lighting.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> remember you talking to me about peat plates, you do like em eh Mike. i've been tempted to get the odd one for spots or walls. not seen much info on them tho, other than great for mosses


Hiya.
Yes I`m a fan of them.
I get them from Marc at Dartfrog.
When setting up a viv they are so simple to use.
Fit them in place leaving about 10mm all around to allow for expansion when wet.
Once you have them in place lift out the front ones (if it`s a sloping bottom, ent style) and run a bead of silicone along the front edge of the slope about 10mm back from the edge.
Place the front plates back onto the silicone and press on them so the silicone can get a good hold.
This will keep them in place so they don`t slide forward.
You get a lovely flat clean surface and if you can get the moss to grow on them you get a really nice green carpet in your viv with moss and ferns.
The ferns can become a nuisance because of their hard roots though so I tend to cut them off.
To put plants in I take them from their pots and remove as much of the soil as possible and then sort of press the root ball into a back corner or edge of the viv where over time the roots will attach to the peat.
Someone asked me a question on live substrate using the peat plates.
You can still add springtails and woodlice etc as they will find their way into all the nooks and crannies as they would do in any other viv.

Mike


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Do you not use leaf litter, Mike?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I do Glenn.
More for the pums than anything.
But as I was saying I`ve been under a bit of pressure to move frogs in and furnish later.
The Pum vivs already have leaf litter in them especially as one has froglets in it now.
One Pum viv has no substrate of any sort yet but I have my reasons for that.
I will sort that out soon though.
When I`m finished moving the frogs in (hopefully tomorrow) I`ll be moving onto the rearing vivs as I`ve got several froglets looking for a change of venue.
There is still loads to do yet but I think it`s fair to say that the worst part is behind me now.


Mike


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Great thread.

It was totally worth all the cut finger helping to load the vivs into the trailer!


Looking forward to seeing how the rack develops.

:2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

If the suggests Peugeot was bigger I would of helped them into that lol, can't wait to see her finished Mike, good luck fella


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Haha thanks Joe.
I didn`t realise you`d cut yourself Andy, you should have said as Julia had a first aid kit in the car.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

So that's the first 3 vivs set up (1st photo) and frogs moved in so at last I`ve got a bit of room to move as I`ve been able to take down one of the old shelf units.
Now I`m ready for the next part, I hope.
As I mentioned earlier I had arranged to meet up with Dale to get the other 5 vivs, but as I`d had 2 with damage to the base our plans changed and Dale was going to come to my house to repair the vivs, and at the same time bring the rest of the vivs with him.
Now here`s the handy part.
When I paid for the vivs I paid extra for a warranty, just in case anything happened on the way home.
Well it did, and true to his word Dale travelled up and fixed the damaged ones.
I must admit it was great to watch him do the repairs, very slick comes to mind.
Now, something I`ve failed to mention is how I threw a couple of curved balls at Dale and to be honest he scored a home run in my eyes.
For a while I`ve been humming and heying over getting some rearing vivs but never making my mind up.
So I thought I`d chuck that curved ball at Dale.
Hey Dale I said can you do me a favour and bring me up 5 rearing vivs when you come up with the other vivs.
No bother says Dale, what do you want.
Then I floored him :lol2:.
I want them 2 tier with a 60cm long and a 30cm long on the bottom with 3 x 30cm vivs on the top.
Well I heard him fall off his chair, but boy did he come through for me.
The 2nd photo is what he brought me.
2 on the bottom and 3 on the top as I asked, with rear access for misting nozzles and lights.
Way to go Dale.
All that was needed done was to drill the holes for nozzles and drains where I wanted them.
You can see Dale hard at work in the 3rd photo.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

ahhhh so you're who that belongs to


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> ahhhh so you're who that belongs to


Haha I`d heard that Dale had posted this on his facebook page.
The secret is out now.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogman955 said:


> Haha I`d heard that Dale had posted this on his facebook page.
> The secret is out now.
> 
> 
> Mike


well it led to a great guessing game that i won lol how you'd light/ventilate the bottom viv's


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> well it led to a great guessing game that i won lol how you'd light/ventilate the bottom viv's


Well Joe this is where Dale did his bit.
He managed to give ventilation for the bottom vivs and also allowed room to fit nozzles and lights.
The lights I`m using are LEDs which I made up a long while back (see photo) but they never really fitted in with what I`ve been doing, until now.
The only thing I`ve to do now is fashion something to stop the humidity from affecting the leds as they are not in a sealed unit.
I can`t see that being an issue though.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well I was hoping to get the froglets changed over today and it`s now done so I can sit back and have a rest now.
The rest of the rearing vivs can wait for now.

Mike


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

frogman955 said:


> Haha thanks Joe.
> I didn`t realise you`d cut yourself Andy, you should have said as Julia had a first aid kit in the car.
> 
> Mike




Twas but a minor flesh wound. Besides, I was only 3 minutes from home, so I was able to sew my finger back on when I got home with only minimal blood loss on the journey! :whistling2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogman955 said:


> http://www.bikerfrog.adsl24.co.uk/frogpics/rfuk/newbuild/newbuild022.jpg


the piece of wood of my dreams


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

A couple of photos of the Azureus and Regina vivs.
I`ll get more photo`s later once I`ve got more plants added.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

This lot crack me up.
At feeding time they can now see the Citronellas out and about and get all excited and then start jumping around and trying to get through the glass to them :lol2:.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Here are some more LEDs for you to see Joe.
I`ve been working on these all weekend now so have 2 sets put together, only 4 sets to go, for now.
They easily light up the bottom of the Pum vivs 70cm down.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

looking good man


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well the new vivs are starting to take shape now.
Won`t be long now, I hope.

Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

looking good mike, i shall be doing a low-fi viv at sometime tomorrow afternoon after a quick visit to somerset lol got peat plates coming too


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice one Joe, have fun.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

That's the leds all fitted up and working fine now.
Just got to wait and see how the plant life does under them.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well things are starting to grow now and among the first is this rather unusual looking mushroom, it`s head is about 2 inches across.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

that is indeed a very odd mushroom


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Looks epic to me!! lol :2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Not fair,I want one,that's cool Mike :2thumb:

Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Pretty damn cool, Mike!


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Mushrooms is something ive not seen in my vivs since I started keeping. Dont they die off rather quick but grow back often? 

What actually causes them to grow like that anyway?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks guys.
And would you believe that it`s still there ?
Don`t think I`ve seen one last more than a day.
I have no idea if it`s grown out of the peat or from the bog wood but it`s the first time I`ve seen one like that.
I`ve no idea why they appear Liam, I suppose it`s because they are some sort of fungus and with vivs being wet it provides the ideal conditions for them to thrive.


Mike


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

I've got a planted exo at the moment with nothing living in it where I had a mushroom in it for about 10 days. It was huge but eventually shrivelled in to nothing. Just looked today and there's about half a dozen tiny mushrooms sprouting up in it's place. I might keep it free of frogs and have a mushroomarium


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

ronnyjodes said:


> I've got a planted exo at the moment with nothing living in it where I had a mushroom in it for about 10 days. It was huge but eventually shrivelled in to nothing. Just looked today and there's about half a dozen tiny mushrooms sprouting up in it's place. I might keep it free of frogs and have a mushroomarium


...until Adam works his QVC magic in april


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> ...until Adam works his QVC magic in april


Christ knows what he'll convince the general public to go home with this time. He keeps tempting me wit talk of ranitomeya...........


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

frogman955 said:


> Thanks guys.
> And would you believe that it`s still there ?
> Don`t think I`ve seen one last more than a day.
> I have no idea if it`s grown out of the peat or from the bog wood but it`s the first time I`ve seen one like that.
> ...





ronnyjodes said:


> I've got a planted exo at the moment with nothing living in it where I had a mushroom in it for about 10 days. It was huge but eventually shrivelled in to nothing. Just looked today and there's about half a dozen tiny mushrooms sprouting up in it's place. I might keep it free of frogs and have a mushroomarium




Apologies if this is known and I come across as patronising - totally not the intention, but a recognised character flaw, hence this disclaimer - but,

The mushroom itself is simply the 'flower/fruit' of the fungus. The main body is all underground, in the soil itself. This 'body', known as the mycelium, is made up of white fibres in the soil which are called 'hyphae'. They are how the fungus grows.

The mushroom is simply sent up for reproduction purposes and houses the spores which will be dispersed by raindrops and wind. If not picked and fried in garlic butter, they will die back once they've done their job.

If left to die back, the viv will be filled with spores so those that fall in favourable positions of humidity, temp and light will grow their own hyphae, 
create their own mycelium and send up their own mushrooms.


The mycelium is there to stay, but I would advise pinching out the mushroom before it goes to spore, unless you specifically want lots of them - they do look pretty cool!



As for where they come from, the soil, the coir, the orchid bark, hell, even the air we breath is absolutely chock full of fungus spores - literally millions of them in every breath. Fortunately, 99.999% of them fail to find favourable conditions. Sometimes they do, like the fellas in your tank!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

bothrops said:


> Apologies if this is known and I come across as patronising - totally not the intention, but a recognised character flaw, hence this disclaimer - but,
> 
> The mushroom itself is simply the 'flower/fruit' of the fungus. The main body is all underground, in the soil itself. This 'body', known as the mycelium, is made up of white fibres in the soil which are called 'hyphae'. They are how the fungus grows.
> 
> ...


I'll differ slightly with you, in that I usually find them more prevelant in newer vivs (especially of course, those with wild material; leafmould, leaflitter, rotting wood etc) and then the fruiting bodies tend to disappear- whatever the mycaelium is quietly doing through the soil- and in my experience only tend to reappear in situations of unusual dampness. Having just typed all that, I realise that quite a few dart tanks would have what I would consider 'unusual dampness'- in my case, it would mean over-watering! :lol2:They are cool, though. :2thumb:


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## damien1010 (Feb 16, 2009)

sorry to add pictures.
awesome thread by the way, but i recently got mushrooms (wood mushrooms i think)
they died back after growing over nigt and 'looking good' for around 4 days and then they wilted.
they have now grown back in the same place with a few extra ones dotted about !

i think they look ace! 



















just my experience


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I had a load of shrooms exactly like that in my Leucs viv growing out of a branch, and yes they looked cool.
Hey Andy thanks for your input.
Very informative indeed.
Now earlier when having a closer look at the shroom I noticed a faint orange colouration on the peat.
Looks like it has shed it`s spores and I`ll have more coming along soon lol.
Anyone want to buy some fancy shrooms ?:2thumb:


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

I had shed loads grow in my dwarf white culture, quite large too, nice feast


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Awesome post! I never knew that the main body was all underground.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Liam Yule said:


> Awesome post! I never knew that the main body was all underground.


Another interesting fact:

The largest living organism ever is actually a fungus.

Scientists tested the DNA of different clumps of the same mushroom found within an Oregon forest and discovered they were all fruits of the same individual fungus. 

The mycelium covers an area of forest approximately 9.7 square km (1665 football pitches) and is estimated to be somewhere between 2200 and 7000 years old (making it a contender for the oldest organism too!).


Apparently the single organism has killed the entire forest above it several times over its life time, increasing the depth of the soil and allowing ever larger stands of trees to grow. Although technically a pathogenic species due to this killing of conifers, it is in fact a forest forming fungus in the long term!


Google 'Oregon Honey Mushroom' or 'Armillaria ostoyae' or, as it is now known 'Armillaria solidipes' for more info!

:2thumb:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I thought I had a photo hiding somewhere of my other shrooms.

Mike


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

I Think I got one similar to that in my older viv. Was there for literally hours before it dissapeared into nothingness. Not even worth a mention lol!


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

frogman955 said:


> I thought I had a photo hiding somewhere of my other shrooms.
> 
> Mike
> 
> image



Aww, their pretty!


Funny how some people spend hours and hours fashioning these things out of all sorts of materials and then sealing them - I kinda like the 'au naturale' look!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

bothrops said:


> Aww, their pretty!
> 
> 
> Funny how some people spend hours and hours fashioning these things out of all sorts of materials and then sealing them - I kinda like the 'au naturale' look!


Deffo- I know lots of people panic when they see mushrooms popping up in their vivs- I just see them as part of the 'natural' ecosystem that is building up.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

To quote Pete Jackson's Hobbit,I think Andy's brain has been addled by eating too many mushrooms,he knows far more than is safe for a phib keeper:mf_dribble:.Fascinating second post mate,learnt something today:no1:

i've always wondered if the gradual decrease in fruiting bodies over time in viv is down to the volume of woodlice we tend to keep in the subs? even if I don't pull the fruiting body,it almost always seems they die out over time.

Stu


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> To quote Pete Jackson's Hobbit,I think Andy's brain has been addled by eating too many mushrooms,he knows far more than is safe for a phib keeper:mf_dribble:.Fascinating second post mate,learnt something today:no1:
> 
> i've always wondered if the gradual decrease in fruiting bodies over time in viv is down to the volume of woodlice we tend to keep in the subs? even if I don't pull the fruiting body,it almost always seems they die out over time.
> 
> Stu


Good ol' Radagast


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> To quote Pete Jackson's Hobbit,I think Andy's brain has been addled by eating too many mushrooms,he knows far more than is safe for a phib keeper:mf_dribble:.Fascinating second post mate,learnt something today:no1:
> 
> *i've always wondered if the gradual decrease in fruiting bodies over time in viv is down to the volume of woodlice we tend to keep in the subs? even if I don't pull the fruiting body,it almost always seems they die out over time.
> *
> Stu


I think it may be partly down to the substrate 'settling down' to a balance- including the cleaners. In 'raw' substrate, the conditions favour the fungi, but once the woodlice and others start to increase their populations, and there is less fresh material (in the shape of recenty-dead leaves, rotten wood fragments etc), they seem to diminish. That ties in a bit with my comment about dampness, as well- soggy soil tends to be anaerobic, which once again favours the fungi. You know I've said before, Stu, that one day I'd love to to a proper ecological analysis of viv soil- it would be really interesting to know for sure how the population of native/non-native species actually works out! :2thumb:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> You know I've said before, Stu, that one day I'd love to to a proper ecological analysis of viv soil- it would be really interesting to know for sure how the population of native/non-native species actually works out! :2thumb:


And that's _your_ project for the new year sorted out


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Great build mike vivs look amazing
Quick question on LEDs (sorry if this has been covered and I've missed it) did you make them yourself? If so where did u get the LEDs from and what are there output? 
Cheers
D


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Grizzly.
I`m almost there lol.
The LEDs haven`t been covered at all so nothings been missed.
Yes I assembled the LEDs myself.
I`m using LED tape.
The rack is 2 metres wide and there are 2 x 5 metres of tape to each shelf, or, 2 x 5 metre reels of tape.
The reels total 24 watts each so 48 watts per shelf.
I bought aluminium to mount them on which acts as a heat sink for them and a slight side effect of this is that they heat the glass of the vivs.
Then I had to buy drivers to run them and then spent many hours soldering the tapes together to get the end result that you see on the photos.
So far my main question has been, how will plant life fair under them.
Well so far the plants have been growing and some ferns which I planted have been growing extremely well.
There are signs too that some of the other plants are happy as well.
The broms are/were a concern as I had no idea how they would do under the LEDs, being a plant which is more associated with sunlight or strong lamps.
So far I`ve got lots of broms growing new roots and growing pups which I found quite surprising.
Also none of the broms seem to have lost any colour, where they had their colours to start with.
Truthfully though the jury is still out on the broms.


Mike


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Photo's photo's!!!!!

Lol


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

frogman955 said:


> Thanks Grizzly.
> I`m almost there lol.
> The LEDs haven`t been covered at all so nothings been missed.
> Yes I assembled the LEDs myself.
> ...


Cheers mike I have been looking at LEDs but they always seem crazy prices, I may take a look at doing something similar 
Keep us updated on the plant life mate 

Cheers 
Dane


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I certainly will Dane.
It sure hasn`t been cheap to build these LEDs but I`m thinking that over time I`ll get the money back with less power usage.
Here is a photo of the rearing vivs for you Liam lol.
The spare vivs are handy for keeping some broms in lol.
LEDs v a pair of T5 tubes.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Mike where did you get the LEDS can you give us a link and spec please,just in case price and spec out performs what I have on the 12 rack,will shortly be in the market for more.

Mate my transformer packed in fairly recently,got one local,top drawer service,but a real shame that the guys local didn't do anything comparable with what I useLED wise.The guys I delt with a couple of years back have singularly the poorest service out there,so if possible would like to go elsewhere.on a major level,it's just a bugger using folks like that 'cause the product is best price/spec I can find.

cheers dude

Oh merry chrimbo mate,go easy on the malt bro,we both gotta be able to stand tomorrow:whistling2:....'erm ....ish:mf_dribble:

Stu


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> Cheers mike I have been looking at LEDs but they always seem crazy prices, I may take a look at doing something similar
> Keep us updated on the plant life mate
> 
> Cheers
> Dane


I have seen these for sale, I don't know how they have slipped under the radar of this hobby? Maybe ask john for some more detailed specs on lumens to do some comparisons. 
Arcadia Classica Stretch Freshwater LED Lighting | Swell UK they seem a fairish price, but it depends on the actual output obviously. 



Great looking set up mike. I can't help but notice you don't have loose subs or much leaf litter. May I ask how come?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Callum
All my vivs have peat plates for the bottom for the clean looks.
Springs etc can easily live on or in it and plants root into it, and with enough lighting it gives a great covering of moss.
There is leaf litter in the Pum vivs which isn`t so obvious in the photos, I`ll have to get some proper closeups of them.
But I`m still finishing up planting the pum vivs so I`m waiting till a bit later to post pics of them.
The other vivs I`ll be adding leaf litter a bit later once I`m happy with how everything is going.
The Arcadia LEDs are expensive compared to what I`ve done so no use for me.
To fit the 90cm units to my setup would cost £420, to fit the ones I`ve used, probably about £200 or less.

Mike


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Sorry I didn't even notice you put the photo's up.

Those LEDS... Is that on the top set of vivs on the growout's? They really are bright bud!

Whats the mm on width of those buggers? Im toying with moving viv around. Right now where its sitting I have around 2cm headspace to fit LEDS :bash:. So I have been looking around...

Did you make use of any of the broms etc I gave you lol?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Howdy Liam.
Remember we spoke about fitting LEDs to your new viv before you ordered it.
The profile which I`ve fitted the LEDs to the rearing tanks is only 8mm thick so plenty room for you to fit some.
The top set of lights on the rearing vivs in that photo are a pair of T5s, the LEDs are on the bottom vivs.
The photo doesn`t really show it off properly but in the flesh there is hardly any difference between them.
If you look at the top left viv Callum you`ll see the moss growing on the peat as I said it would.
Yes Liam I used those 2 broms and one is in the Reginas viv but I forget where I put the other one, I`m sure I put it into the Caucheros viv.


Mike


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> Howdy Liam.
> Remember we spoke about fitting LEDs to your new viv before you ordered it.
> The profile which I`ve fitted the LEDs to the rearing tanks is only 8mm thick so plenty room for you to fit some.
> The top set of lights on the rearing vivs in that photo are a pair of T5s, the LEDs are on the bottom vivs.
> ...


Yeah I can see theres not much difference. Are these the ones you have to solder up yourself or?

Cheers bud!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Yes that is them Liam.
That job was made worse because of the amount I had to do, it was all small and fiddly.
Your one would be a lot easier to do.

Mike


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## Orlex (Nov 14, 2013)

I have looked from first pages, all your vivs and frogs  and I can say: :2thumb::no1::whistling2: . I really like them all  you have good collection mate ))) happy to see frog rooms like that  .


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Orlex.
The frog room is actually my livingroom.
They make a nice talking point when we have visitors lol.
But it also means that they are all there on show so that I can see them at a glance any time I want to.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well it`s been a while now since I posted any photo`s so thought I`d update things on how the new vivs are doing.
Things have been going well and the plant life is starting to take hold.
As I had run out of plants things kind of stalled so I`m planning on finding some new ones at the meets coming up next month.
As this is a long term on going project I`ll update as and when any changes or upgrades are made.
Below are the Terrib vivs.

Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Next is the Tinc vivs.
Azureus, Citronella and Regina, in that order.


Mike


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

And now some partial shots of some of my Pum vivs.
When I`ve got time I`ll get some better photo`s.


Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Question for you, Mike; do you find that the frogs are happy with the peat plates as a substrate? As you know, I don't keep darts, but most of my other frogs seem to like to burrow down, once in a while, even the tree and reed frogs. That's a genuine question, by the way! : victory:


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Ron.
I don`t really know how happy they are to tell the truth.
But the way I`m thinking is that the plates are cleaner and neater.
The frogs don`t get dirty by having to move about through wet soil.
Woodlice and springtails can still be used as they go into any cracks and crevices or under lumps of wood etc.
One downside is that given a chance they will dry out quite fast so need to be kept moist with constant spraying, nothing excessive though.
But this can also be a good thing as there is less chance of having a soggy mess in the viv due to over watering.
What I do like is that in time with the correct lighting you can get a cracking covering of moss on it.
Because dart frogs don`t burrow down that shouldn`t be a problem unlike with your own frogs.
I suppose I`ve gone the peat route simply because of the mess from using soil in past vivs.
It gets down into your drainage layers as well which ends up clogging it all over time.
Another thing I`ve noticed as well is when feeding the frogs they will grab a fly and sometimes it would end up with particles of soil in it`s mouth, this doesn`t happen with the peat.
So I suppose there are both good and not so good points to using it, but to me there are more good.


Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Hi Ron.
> I don`t really know how happy they are to tell the truth.
> But the way I`m thinking is that the plates are cleaner and neater.
> The frogs don`t get dirty by having to move about through wet soil.
> ...


Interesting, thank you!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Something I just thought of Ron.
On my other thread http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/783750-just-stu-40.html I posted about one of my vivs having nematodes.
To get rid of them you`d normally have to remove all the substrate and any backgrounds etc.
That particular viv has no background, just like all my others.
The broms are mounted on cork tubes propped against the back of the viv.
All I do to clear the viv is lift out the peat plates to replace them with new ones, 10 minutes work ?
If I want to do a thorough job, all I do is remove the cork tubes and bin them, then replace them with new ones.
Obviously I`d have to replace the broms too.
But can you imagine the amount of work the simple layout could save me ?
Imagine having to remove substrate and rip out a background etc, I dread to think about it.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

nematodes fella's what are these ? (sorry if i should know by now)


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## Patto96 (Apr 18, 2013)

Nematodes are worm-like animals, there's a lot of species ??1 million??, about half are parasitic. The parasitic ones usually have an intermediate host, often a snail or slug on land, but can be other invertebrtates. The juveniles live in the intermediate host, and the adults in the final host, usually in the lower digestive tract (gut). The eggs are laid inside the final host, and are taken with the faeces, which are then consumed by the intermediate hosts.

As you can see if you got a nematode which had a dartfrog as its final host and springtails/woodlice as its intermediate, it would be very bad.

I'm not too sure how often it happens, but with culturing it shouldn't be too common (since there is no final host for the adult nematodes). They probably come with infected frogs than their food, but is still possible.

So removing the substrate removes the eggs. But the frogs need to be treated. It is possible to remove nematodes without removing the feeders if you medicate for 4 weeks.

A human example of a nematode is the pin worm, but this is a weird one as it doesn't need an intermediate host to survive, just needs one to spread well.

Hope I haven't given you nightmares 

(I know this because I did a very interesting report on this, nematodes in invertebrate populations and how they effect protected amphibians, so in other words how do nematodes affect Great Crested Newt populations)


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cheers dude, good to know. what should i look out for ?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Here you are Joe, all you need to know.
Nemerteans
Usually you can see them climbing about on the glass at lights out or just after you switch them on.
Or you can see them crawling about on the ground or in leaf litter.


Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> nematodes fella's what are these ? (sorry if i should know by now)





Patto96 said:


> Nematodes are worm-like animals, there's a lot of species ??1 million??, about half are parasitic. The parasitic ones usually have an intermediate host, often a snail or slug on land, but can be other invertebrtates. The juveniles live in the intermediate host, and the adults in the final host, usually in the lower digestive tract (gut). The eggs are laid inside the final host, and are taken with the faeces, which are then consumed by the intermediate hosts.
> 
> As you can see if you got a nematode which had a dartfrog as its final host and springtails/woodlice as its intermediate, it would be very bad.
> 
> ...


The main problem with dart tanks isn't the parasitic types, it is the predatory ones that feed on springtails. This isn't an issue for me, as any springtails present are a happy accident and an addition to the bioactive clean-up crew- they are *far* too small to interest any of my frogs! For someone who relies on them as a food source, though, nemerteans can be a real problem.


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