# Mixed tropical set-up



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

I've just got back from Forest Floor Reptiles in Rushden and been admiring a lovely tropical set-up they have on display. The have rough green snakes, green anoles, long-tailed lizards and some frogs in the terrarium. There may be other species in there as well. I thought it was fantastic and would love something like this myself.

Just wondered if anyone else has anything similar? What sort of species can co-habit in this sort of arrangement? Are there any issues in keeping these species together - the ones I saw today appeared to get on together OK.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

im going to wait on replys aswell for this because id love something like that aswell : victory:

let the mixing species bashing commence:lol2:


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## 12843 (Nov 16, 2007)

Long story short, you need to have a excellent understanding of each inhabitance needs and behaviour, something which could only be fully understood after a good couple of years with each specie's.

Introduction would also be a very important and key event.

However, if someone has to ask if its possible, the common answer is no. For obvious reasons.

My first impression is that the anoles and frogs at some point could get eaten. Depending on the frogs they could be toxic to other species. Anoles and long tails would probably clash.
Temps could pose issues also, along with the frogs higher need for RH.

Referre to paragraph one :lol2:


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Lol, this could be fun.

As long as all requirements are met, and there is no fighting or stress caused by the cohabitation there's no reason why not. This includes the chemical side - will any toxins the frogs produce affect the other residents? Also, will the hunting styles get in the way of one another? 

If everything's fine, try it, but be prepared to separate them.


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

I have 4 Anoles, two Long Tailed Skinks, 3 Green Tree Fogs and 1 Gray USA Frog all cohabiting together in a single viv. They have all been together since the middle of December without any sign of violence. You have to make sure that the viv/tank is big enough so that they have plenty of different places to hide/sleep so that they are not all looking for the same spot, the same goes for a basking spot. Also, I always make sure that there is a small dish of meal worms always available so that they will not fight for food. I monitor them closely, it can work. In my case, I bought them all at the same time, they came out of the same communal tank in the shop, so they were all together before I got them. Just make sure that you only get 1 male Anole to 3 females. 2 male Anoles will probably fight, and they will stress out and over use the females for giggy giggy. With 1 male he can spread the love! :mf_dribble:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

The species you are speaking about have a long history of being able to live together. Living soils work best in these types of set ups and they are display without handling. As above, lots of nooks and crannies, differing pathways for differing species, etc. I have had even firebellies in cohabs for many years.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Lets just get it out of the way before the textbook brigade turn up

:devil::devil: Read this you :censor::censor::censor::censor::censor: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/35374-mixing-species-please-read.html never never never never mix species you f:censor: :censor:

right.. that's the moaning out of the way for all the others ....



Like everybody else has said so far. It can be done and a fair few people probably do it but it's not just something that anybody can jump into; if you know enough about each species and can set the viv up so that they're all happy etc etc then it can be done.
Just needs the right mix, a decent sized viv and time and patience to set it up right.


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## 12843 (Nov 16, 2007)

Meko said:


> Lets just get it out of the way before the textbook brigade turn up
> 
> :devil::devil: Read this you :censor::censor::censor::censor::censor: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/35374-mixing-species-please-read.html never never never never mix species you f:censor: :censor:
> 
> ...


:lol2:


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## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Thanks guys. I was obviously aware that as a general rule, this sort of thing is asking for trouble. I just wondered if anyone else had much first hand experience (good or bad) really. It sounds like it can be done from what some of you say.

Time to do my homework on each individual species, then think again, I reckon. Meanwhile any further comments or advice much appreciated.


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

No worries, if you want me to run through my set up and experiences with you, just drop me a pm


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

I would love to see you do a thread on it Turbo with photos. I have done a couple of mine, spikebrit has a thread in the vivs section on his. The longtails are one I did not have success keeping in a community so I would sure love to know what you are doing right that I did wrong! 

Pat


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

To be honest, I wouldn't want to do a thread until I have gained more experience and had a lot more time monitoring them. As I said, It's only just over 4 months now in the viv. I'm not an expert, and I wouldn't want to come across as being such. And having spent the last 8 ish months reading many many threads on here, it is a very fine line between sharing your experiences right and wrong/good or bad, and opening yourself up to the reptile Police!!! :whistling2: Especially on such a touchy subject as mixing species. 

I try to listen and read as much as I can, from various different sources, and make my own decisions based on this. 

Having said that, I am probably about to open myself up for :bash: anyway! lol

here is a link to my community viv build. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/617590-custom-rainforest-background-2.html

It is a ND Aquatics custom made viv, 24 x 24 x 24. The viv sits 13 inch's above the floor on four legs which I made, and these legs have a layer of a kind of sponge between the legs and the viv, so to dampen out any vibration, as I have 3 boxer dogs running in and out. The viv is about 4 inch's away from the wall to make sure of good circulation through the vents. It has changed a little, (vines and trees added etc) since the pictures that you can see on the link above, but it gives you an idea of the set up. I use an Arcadia 12% tube with a reflector, 8:30am On 8:30pm Off on timer, positioned at the front top of the viv behind the wooden top plimth. It has a heat mat on the floor inside the viv, it is on a stat set at 82', and a 60 watt blue bulb in a guard set back left on a dimming stat set at 90' (measured with the thermometer probe directly on the basking vine 8 inch's directly underneath the guard). When the Tube goes off at night I manually drop the bulb stat down to 70', and back up again when the tube comes on in the morning. The humidity is between 60 % and 70 %, that's with me spraying still bottled water in 2/3 times a day with a manual pump up sprayer. Usually first thing in morning, just before light out at night and on a warm day maybe once during the day. As you can see there is 2 digital monitors inside the viv, the back one is for the basking spot, and the one on the side of the viv the probe is about 2 inch's off of the floor directly in the middle of the viv, this has the mat stat probe with it. There is a dish of meal worms, changed every 2 days, at the back left of the viv, and live locusts are put in to the viv every morning, cricket dust added during the week, and nutobol at weekends. There is a sizeable bowl full of still bottled water changed every morning. Every morning the viv is spot cleaned, food bowl, water bowl and rock taken out and thoroughly cleaned. The Frogs generally sleep during the day in the trees, and at about 6:30ish they start to appear on the vines,and when the Tube goes off they go down and sit in or around the water bowl. They also talk to each other from 6:30ish to around lights off. The long tails generally are quite active, again at night they hide up in the trees, but during the day they use the whole viv to climb and move about in, and also bask directly under the bulb at times too. They don't seem to have a preference, and usually they are together or near each other, and also are comfortable on the substrate as well. The Anoles tend to stay to the top of the viv, either on the side rocks or in the trees, and do come down to bask on the vines, again near the top of the viv. They tend to be more active during late afternoon. 

None of these lizards/frogs are being handled at all. 

I did have one grey frog that didn't make it after 6 days of moving in. It was not attacked, but I believe was my mistake by not allowing them to settle in enough. I was too worried, checking the temps all the times when I should have kept my distance, this I think stressed him out.  

As an added note, I have a camera set up directly up to the glass at the bottom outside the viv looking in. This is set up to record with movement on my pc. And I can also access it 24 hours from my phone, and move the camera up and down, left and right from the phone. I also have this on my Beardies viv as well. The camera also has sound hence the frogs talking! 

I hope this is of interest, I am aware that it's not going to be everyone's correct set up, I am however very open to peoples constructive opinions, and if my set up could be made better I welcome your constructive thoughts and experiences.


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Extremely well made. 

Thanks fo taking the time to write out the explaination of what you do and how. Love the camera idea...though not one I need as I am home all the time. Your humidity is somewhat lower than what I keep in the viv I had the longtails in and that may have been my problem. 

Again, thanks for sharing. This is an issue the reptile police have calmed down on. 

Would love to know when you do an update on them as it has been only a few months. 

Here is one of my threads on the topic. Community Vivariums Education Page



Pat


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

mixing species is best discussed whispering at secret meetings i dont agree with mixed tanks they can work but there is always the potential for things to go wrong 

my main problem with mixing is alot of begginers come through this forum and people saying yes you can mix i have.......will result in alot of people trying and failing at the expense of alot of animals if you have to ask about mixing the answer of "can i mix" should be no

if you are very experienced with the species if the tank will be in view alot so you can constantly check for aggression and problems and if the viv is proportionally big enough for the amount of species ....by this i mean if an anole needs a 20 gallon tank and a tree frog needs a 20 gallon tank overall you need a 40 gallon tank


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi Sambridge, I disagree with a couple of your posted comments above.

*mixing species is best discussed whispering at secret meetings*
I believe it is the whole point of the forum that if people are spending the time to join the forum and post up a question then they should have the confidence that the replies they receive are genuine. The answer to the original thread question is yes, it can be done. If people don't want to spend the time explaining the pit falls etc and why they think it not a good idea, then maybe they shouldn't post a reply at all. Posting No to *Can I Mix* is wrong, in my opinion.

*if an anole needs a 20 gallon tank and a tree frog needs a 20 gallon tank overall you need a 40 gallon tank*

This is my genuine question to you, Does this apply to 2 bearded dragons? It's my understanding that for a full grown dragon, a 4 x 2 x 2 is regarded as a preferred acceptable size viv, so if two were in there should it be 8 x 2 x 2? I'm pretty sure the height wouldn't need to be doubled but would the floor space? Again, I know the general feeling amongst most regular posters on here say not to keep dragons together, but again, many do successfully. 

I hope this post doesn't come across in an attacking way, it really isn't meant that way at all and I apologies if it does.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Bamboozoo said:


> I would love to see you do a thread on it Turbo with photos. I have done a couple of mine, spikebrit has a thread in the vivs section on his. The longtails are one I did not have success keeping in a community so I would sure love to know what you are doing right that I did wrong!
> 
> Pat


Yep i have a thread on mine. 

Jeffers, I have had a tank set up house longtails lizards, green anoles, brown anoles, 1 unknown anole species, a couple of usa tree frogs, and untill recently a grey tree frog that died of old age. This is a mix that works really well, mine have been together at least 6 years now (prob longer), they have all bred over time and are now getting quite old as i had them all as adults. I had previously also kept blue guiding tree lizards with these, and a house gecko, however both of these have since been removed and the house gecko has died of old age.

I have heard of rough greens working well in these, however they are very sensitatve and die easily if stressed. I would be unsure using them. A friend of mine thinks that slug eatering snakes would work well, however i am a little unsusure.

Mixed habitats work really well, so long as you use common sense, resaerch and have some experinece of normal behaviour pattens so that you can see when they are stressed and being aggressive. Also, you may well need to seperate some at certain points, as each animal may not get on with the other just like all people dont get on. 

My tank is heavly planted and has an MVB bulb for heat and UV,

There tank:











Drop me a PM f you want to chat about ir jeffers. 

Jay


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

TurboUK said:


> *mixing species is best discussed whispering at secret meetings*
> I believe it is the whole point of the forum that if people are spending the time to join the forum and post up a question then they should have the confidence that the replies they receive are genuine. The answer to the original thread question is yes, it can be done. If people don't want to spend the time explaining the pit falls etc and why they think it not a good idea, then maybe they shouldn't post a reply at all. Posting No to *Can I Mix* is wrong, in my opinion.
> 
> *.


Part of the reason it should be done at secret meetings is because of the caresheet / text book brigade. Far too often threads on mixing species descend into arguments about why they shouldn't be mixed, and that's because people don't like to step outside their comfort zone and try something new.

Although my jury is out on the 20 / 40 gallon part. With beardies my answer would be that you don't need to double up; some people think you need 8sq foot per beardie but common sense tells you that two 2ft lizards isn't one 4ft lizard. they move and act independantly so they don't need 8sq foot each..
With mixing species, i'd say you'd probably need to go bigger so they don't have to encroach on each other too much but i probably wouldn't say they need their own recommended size to themselves... but as always, bigger is usually better.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Meko said:


> Part of the reason it should be done at secret meetings is because of the caresheet / text book brigade. Far too often threads on mixing species descend into arguments about why they shouldn't be mixed, and that's because people don't like to step outside their comfort zone and try something new.
> 
> Although my jury is out on the 20 / 40 gallon part. With beardies my answer would be that you don't need to double up; some people think you need 8sq foot per beardie but common sense tells you that two 2ft lizards isn't one 4ft lizard. they move and act independantly so they don't need 8sq foot each..
> With mixing species, i'd say you'd probably need to go bigger so they don't have to encroach on each other too much but i probably wouldn't say they need their own recommended size to themselves... but as always, bigger is usually better.


The text book brigade does seem mto be very strong in the lzard section hence why i dont post much. 

I also go as large as i can, for my mixed tanks, often much larger then i need to. 

Jay


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Spikebrit said:


> The text book brigade does seem mto be very strong in the lzard section hence why i dont post much.



ah you're doing it wrong then!! you need to post more just to watch them get wound up


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

TurboUK said:


> Hi Sambridge, I disagree with a couple of your posted comments above.
> 
> **mixing species is best discussed whispering at secret meetings**
> I believe it is the whole point of the forum that if people are spending the time to join the forum and post up a question then they should have the confidence that the replies they receive are genuine. The answer to the original thread question is yes, it can be done. If people don't want to spend the time explaining the pit falls etc and why they think it not a good idea, then maybe they shouldn't post a reply at all. Posting No to *Can I Mix* is wrong, in my opinion.
> ...


doesnt come across as attacking but it seems you misunderstood or i poorly voiced my opinions:lol2:

my first line was said as a joke as most end as shouting competitions but what i mean is that it should not be encouraged sure it can be done but the requirments for it to be done would require the poster to already have the knowledge to not need to post and ask so by asking there answering there own question as no if that makes sense as they are already indicating that they are not experienced

and as for the bearded dragons question what i ment was that each species should be provided an enclosure at least the same size with the same facilities basking spots hides etc as it would have if it was kept alone to avoid having a high density of animals in a small vivaria obviously not exactly but when mixing a key to success it seems is often a very large viv with multiply basking spots hides etc so the individual species are not forced to compete,i remember reading that brown anoles often dominate basking spots when paired with green anoles no idea how true thatis but im sure spikebrit could clear that for me?

on a different note im a ferm believer in bigger viv =better viv and iv always found the 4 2 2 vivs to be unblievably small when compared to the size of the dragon would be like me keeping my frogs in a 6/4/4inch viv!:lol2:a viv should always be as big as you can possibly fit/afford


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

Yes Meko that all makes sense. 

spkiebrit, Any chance you could post a link to you're thread on your setup please, I'm not too sure how to find older threads and I'm very interested.

Cheers


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

TurboUK said:


> Yes Meko that all makes sense.
> 
> spkiebrit, Any chance you could post a link to you're thread on your setup please, I'm not too sure how to find older threads and I'm very interested.
> 
> Cheers


Here you go, if you look at the pictures on page 4 or somethng i have pictures of the anoles and long tailed lizards. 

edit link: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ropically-planted-community-viv-pictures.html

Jay


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Meko said:


> ah you're doing it wrong then!! you need to post more just to watch them get wound up


I have done many times, but i just can't be bothered any more, i have better things to do lol. 

Jay


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Spikebrit said:


> Here you go, if you look at the pictures on page 4 or somethng i have pictures of the anoles and long tailed lizards.
> 
> Jay



cough link cough


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## TurboUK (Oct 24, 2010)

Ah Sambridge, I see and I understand.

There is a lot of enjoyment in watching them all in the viv, however it was not cheap to get the set up together, and it is quite time consuming doing the morning choars in the viv. I don't mind because I'm committed.

I'm pretty sure the cost of the set up, time it takes up and potential problems, would put a lot of the potential casual keepers off on it's own if explained to them. 

And if the people on here that do have mixed tanks can communicate more, that would hopefully share the knowledge, and allow them to tweak their set ups, as well as help gather more info on correcting the habitats for mixing. 

Who knows, in time their might me a care sheet for a mixed tank! :whistling2::bash::whip:


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## kLoNe TrOoPa (Mar 5, 2010)

i've seen it done a number of times before, when i got my U.S tree frogs they were being kept with a madagscan day gecko while the tank next to it had anoles and a rough green tree snake, also knew some1 that kept a yemen, beardie and lep gecko all in a converted cupboard, very strange but he said it worked, personally wouldn't try mixing anything my water dragon alone has 'done' in 2 of his house mates and they were the same species !


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

I also disagree with you Sam. The problem is that people see it in stores, other homes, etc. and dont find an availability of materials to do the research. This one that is being asked about is very successful often when done right and a great place for people who are interested in natural and cohabs to start. 

I have had many more problems in keeping species that are the same together, than in mixed settings when appropriate partners are chosen.

There is risk involved in each situation in captivity whether your reptile is alone or with others. I think the risks I take are different. 

It is quite astounding to watch the interaction in cohabs and see how they cope with living within those boundaries. Another great addition to this one above is the hermit crab, both of mine cope exceptionally well with a little salt added into the water, just a pinch (also a health aid for fungal infection for reptiles/frogs) and are all over the 5 foot I have. 

There are some of us out there that are able to cut the risks and speak about it from experience. 

I have taken it well past the acceptable edges with a lot of success and have taken the time to write about what I have seen. It is not science, it is only personal experience and certainly not an end all be all guide. Each situation is different, individual. 

There are a good 40% who are interested in learning about this kind of husbandry.....maybe only 5% will attempt. 

This bluey is 6/7 years of age, the beardie over 7. in the photo ~9/10 now.










This little beardie and this star gazer have lived together for over 3 years.The beardie came to me 3 years of age. I did get him to grow some ~ almost twice original size.










Agama and Leopard Geckos Environment










Life time match. This water dragon is 11 this season. The basilisk came along in the second year and lived to be 7 or so. 










Giant Day Gecko and Rainbow Skinks









Mixed Inhabitants: currently ~ Water dragon, white spot, hermits, frogs, toads. (B&E only has the use of 3 legs, he is the 11 year old from above, he has trouble with climbing and tumbles often. This is the environment he needs.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Meko said:


> cough link cough


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ropically-planted-community-viv-pictures.html


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

@ Sam (should have realized yoiu were being a smart a$$) I have always liked your attitude.

Lets talk size ~ as much space as possible should always be given. But size is not as much of an issue as some might think. The agility and paths and habits for individual species is more important. imho Time and usage of areas trumps size of environment.

@Spike ~ those of us who practice it have come a long way in the last couple of years because people like you have taken the time to document your success on the forum. That viv is really looking amazing!

@ Turbo......I forgot to say I really liked the idea of cushioning the vibrations and bouncing of the dogs. That impressed me as a great idea fro those of us with big dogs.

Pat


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Bamboozoo said:


> @ Sam (should have realized yoiu were being a smart a$$) I have always liked your attitude.
> 
> Lets talk size ~ as much space as possible should always be given. But size is not as much of an issue as some might think. The agility and paths and habits for individual species is more important. imho Time and usage of areas trumps size of environment.
> 
> ...


Just to put a spanner in the works, I am building another planted habitat, that will hold a main species, but then may add some frogs depending on how things go. However, due to the species, space causes a fear/stress responce and then death. Which is why most people can't keep them alive apparently. Hence it will be a relativly small size in comparrision.These are my dream species, so i am planning it out in a lot of detail.

Jay


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## kermitthefrog (Jul 2, 2010)

I kept a mixed North American Viv for about 3-4 years, after having many years experience previously with herps. Had no major issues all that time. There were a couple of treefrogs that died in the first few days initially but they were pretty stressed from transport and in hindsight maybe I should have set them up and acclimatised them separately before mixing them in the community viv. Do your research and know exactly what requirements each needs. The most important thing I found was that there should be plenty of microclimates and nooks and crannies for each indivivdual animal to use and feel secure. Plenty of good advice on this thread and the links so not going to go into any more. The most I ever had in the tank (48x12x18 inch) was one Rough Green snake, a pair of Brown Anoles, a trio of Green Anoles, 2 Green Treefrogs and 1 Grey Treefrog.


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Bamboozoo said:


> @ Sam (should have realized yoiu were being a smart a$$) I have always liked your attitude.
> 
> Lets talk size ~ as much space as possible should always be given. But size is not as much of an issue as some might think. The agility and paths and habits for individual species is more important. imho Time and usage of areas trumps size of environment.
> 
> ...


im confused what exactly was i being smart about haha :hmm:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

sambridge15 said:


> mixing species is best discussed whispering at secret meetings i dont agree with mixed tanks they can work but there is always the potential for things to go wrong
> 
> PS this might be the only forum we are making progess at!:lol2:


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