# New tank - want to keep cichlids?



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Hi folks

Hubby and I have just bought a Juwel Vision 180 - currently inhabited by a large parrot fish, 2 large red tailed sharks, 1 large clown loach and a few other species ( won't know til we pick tank up )

I plan on changing the tank and keeping cichlid species ( Malawi ) and was wondering if it would be wise to leave any of the current fish to inhabit also.

Plan to change the gravel currently in tank to coral sand, have a temp tank with water at good levels for fish to live in while I change the environment for them.

Could I leave any of these fish in with my cichlids?

Thankies  xx


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

Short answer is no. Red tailed sharks can tolerate moderate hardness, parrot cichlids (I'm guessing it is this rather than the marine version!) come from the Amazon so live in soft acidic water. Clown loaches also need soft to moderate hard water. Malawis need hard alkaline water to do well.


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

quite a few people keep the fish you have listed with Malawi cichlids but I would recomend you get rid of the clown loach as they get huge and need to be kept in groups and would not keep 2 red tail sharks together as they normally dont get along one per tank is best with them, the parrot fish is a hybrid and has no natural habbitat as such but will be the most likely to get bullyed by the malawi's. so all in all yes you could keep them but it will be better if you did not.


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

rum&coke said:


> quite a few people keep the fish you have listed with Malawi cichlids


yep, a million lemmings can't be wrong 



> the parrot fish is a hybrid and has no natural habbitat as such ...


... suggest you check out Hoplarchus psittacus aka the parrot cichlid ...


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

Paul Butler said:


> yep, a million lemmings can't be wrong  I did not say it was a good idea
> 
> ... suggest you check out Hoplarchus psittacus aka the parrot cichlid ...Dont see many of them around I bet its a blood parrot hybrid in the OP's tank


 : victory:: victory:


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

tbh, true parrot cichlid are as rare as rocking horse poo, stunning fish though.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Have no clue about the difference between a parrot cichlid hybrid or true one - what's the difference?

I have decided that, upon the Vision being done, I will be keeping the parrot cichlid and the angel fish in there along with some similarly sized cichlids. The sharks, gourami, clown loach and 2 other little dinky things will be going to live in the current smaller tank until I find a suitable home for them as this will also be a mini cichlid tank for some smaller fish to grow on and possibly any babies I may be lucky enough to get


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i doubt an angel will be a good idea for a parrot to be in with long term, they can be aggressive. you have to be very careful what cichlids you mix as some are very aggressive, some less so, most are territorial. research compatibility thoroughly before buying. will make a lovely tank though.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks hun. The Angel and the Parrot have actually lived together for the last 3 years. They are both practically the same size ( will try to get pics - they would both eaily fill the palm of your hand ).

See my problem is right now that I don't particularly want to keep the sharks, gourami or clown. They aren't to my taste and that is the long and short of it. I am ploughing money into the tank and want it to be right, how I want it to look with the right type of fish ( sound horrible don't I lol )

I have looked into Malawi cichlids and am thinking of having an Auloncara species, some labs, would like some Moori if they are compatible and then the parrots.

Then I hope to add a plec of some type to help with cleaning and away we go 

( forgot to add there is also a male Betta in there as well living quite well with them??? )


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ok, sounds like a strange mix of fish, you will have to be very careful of any bad behaviour like bullying and fin nipping IMO,and personally i wouldnt even try it. the angel should be more than 6" if over 3 yrs old and the parrot i had was 7" so i would say if they are both that age they are somewhat stunted. 

i would definately remove the giant fish flake...:blush: oops i mean betta, for its own safety its a bad mix. 

if you are wanting cichlids, you should ideally keep just cichlids, apart from maybe a small plec fo you really want one. seriaouly research any fish you want to keep together. 

your new tank is around 40 gallons, it isnt a big big tank, really your angel and your parrot will come close to stocking,especially if you add a pleco. 

the moori alone will reach 10" and i wouldnt house them in this tank,especially with other fish.

aulonocara only grow to 4" or so, but need extremely good water quality and so a tank size of 55-75 gallons is recommended. they need good water flow, good filtration, sandy substrate and lots of caves to hide in and around.

the yellow lab will grow to 4-6" and need a tank a minimum of 3ft with tons of caves and rocks to hide in. although they are one of teh more peaceful types, they should be kept in a mbuna set-up.

i would definately rehome all of them, but possibly not the parrot if you really want to keep it, and also want cichlids. personally i would rehome them all to proper size tanks with compatible tankmates and start over with a cichlid set-up if you really want to keep them. they have totally different needs so to house them all together seems a bit cruel as none will be truly happy living in there.

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor try this site, its easy to use and will give you a good idea of stocking and warnings for what is or isnt compatible.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks hun 

We are lucky to have a great chap local to us who breeds cichlids and spent the last 24 years managing a specialist shop dealing in marine and cichlid fish so he is on hand and has offered 24 hour help and advise.

The parrot fish definitely has to stay - apty names "Fish face ", he comes to the top of the water for kisses and follows you round like a puppy and, being honest, I adore him to bits 

The parrot is perhaps 5-6", the angel very close to that also. 

Have some crappy pics on my phone but will try to get them online 

Thanks for the link also - shall peruse that now xx


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

The sharks, loach and betta need a new home ASAP. Could you take them to a local aquatics shop or advertise them on here?

I wouldn't keep an angel with malawis, if that's what you're planning. It'll be ripped to shreds. I can see the parrot being bullied as well, tbh. A 180 litre tank will be about 4 foot and so the largest fish that should be considered would be 8" as an adult and that's still pretty big for the tank. 

It's great that you have someone local who helps but keep an open mind to the old-school ways and the newer ways of doing things. Always worth double-checking what he says.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I may keep one of the sharks, the loach and the betta in my other tank on thier own to be honest??

I am going to stick with labs for the time being I think, possibly a zebra and maybe a small convict?


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## Viva (Apr 19, 2010)

Of my fairly limited experience, cichlids will eat anything that they can fit in their mouths and that isn't spiny! Also I have seen the damage they do to each other when fighting over territory, ie dislocated jaw :sad: .

However they are amazing to watch and real characters following you round the tank to try and hypnotise you into feeding them.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

That is what the parrot does already! He ( I say "he" loosely! ) literally traces your movements around the tank and the first sign of the lid opening means he wants whatever you have - fingers, food!!!

I have a smaller tank set up in case of any miniature arrivals from them and have everything all good and ready to go. Water levels are perfect, all my tests are coming back great, all I need to do now is gradually add some fishies


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

brittone05 said:


> I may keep one of the sharks, the loach and the betta in my other tank on thier own to be honest??
> 
> I am going to stick with labs for the time being I think, possibly a zebra and maybe a small convict?


The shark needs 40 gallons and could reach 8 inches, the clown needs closer to 100 gallons and could reach 12 inches and the betta will be pretty miserable with the shark, if he survives.

Don't be tempted to keep these fish in a sub-par environment. If you don't have the 5-6 foot tank needed for the clowns and the ability to provide him with some more of his own kind, rehome him. The shark could be kept in a 3 foot tank on his own but due to their highly aggressive nature they should be kept in 4-5 foot tanks if you wish to keep them with other fish. Bettas are aggressive but very easily scared and intimidated by larger fish. They do best in dedicated planted tanks of around 20-30 litres. 

There is no such thing as a "small" convict. A baby convict, yes, but it will grow. A convict should be fine in that tank but it will have your angel fish. As will the labs, tbh.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks hun 

So the sharks, clown and the angel are definitely going. The Betta can stay in the smaller tank I have - I have a 40l here ( or thereabouts ) that I can plant up and possibly put some suitably sized smaller species in with him.

The parrot - will he be okay to go in with the labs and convict? The tank I have is a 180 bow front. 

Also, I want to add a small catfish, a couple of zebras and maybe in the future an Aulonocara fire fish?

What you think hun xxx


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

you really need to research each of the fish you want to keep and go from there. the fish you want to keep wont thrive if kept together. i would skip the catfish and stick with just cichlids. the parrot shouldnt really be kept in the same tank, it would prefer a large tank with plant and bog wood for cover and hiding, maybe a cave. the cichlids you want will need a lot of rockwork with tons of hiding places for them to establish territory over. the labs and aulonocara should be fine together, plenty of rock work remember, i wouldnt add a convict personally though. what type of catfish are you looking to get?

clown loaches should be kept in groups, should reach around 12" and ideally need a tank 100gallons or more. 

the shark although can seem ok for now may snap at any point and my friends one took out 2 fully grown angels it lived with for life, 1 cory catfish and another shark which they decided would be nice looking along side the other shark.

the betta certainly needs a tank of its own, and at 40liters i would say maybe a trio of cories in with it and let it have the space to itself. our old bettas all ate small fish (cardinals, neons, glolights) so we kept them housed alone or with just a few bottom dwellers. live plants arent essential but ours loved to rest in them. they also help keep water quality up too.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Okay - so having sat and chatted to hubby, he wants to now purchase a larger tank for the sharks and others as he really likes them. Am watching a couple of 5-6 footers on eBay although may go for a 4 footer and just keep one of the sharks.

They have all cohabited for the last 3 years or so ( 2 shark, 2 gourami, parrot cichlid, angel, 2 little poss barbs?, betta and clown )


On the cichlid front - I am thinking of going for peacocks, haps and, if I can, adding labs into there and possibly a blue dolphin? Have to see what my research pulls up


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

brittone05 said:


> Okay - so having sat and chatted to hubby, he wants to now purchase a larger tank for the sharks and others as he really likes them. Am watching a couple of 5-6 footers on eBay although may go for a 4 footer and just keep one of the sharks.
> 
> They have all cohabited for the last 3 years or so ( 2 shark, 2 gourami, parrot cichlid, angel, 2 little poss barbs?, betta and clown )
> 
> ...


To save an inevitable upgrade as the sharks grow, I'd stick to a 6' tank and you would probably get away with keeping them all in that, provided that the tank has a decent depth. I wouldn't get a 4' tank for them, not even for just the one. Also they're sociable fish, and would be unfair to split them up.



If they've all learned to live together, you could try keeping them in the same tank, but minus the betta of course. I'd perhaps look at rehoming the clown loach, as a shoal of these might push the bioload too far.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

hippyhaplos said:


> To save an inevitable upgrade as the sharks grow, I'd stick to a 6' tank and you would probably get away with keeping them all in that, provided that the tank has a decent depth. I wouldn't get a 4' tank for them, not even for just the one. Also they're sociable fish, and would be unfair to split them up.
> 
> 
> 
> If they've all learned to live together, you could try keeping them in the same tank, but minus the betta of course. I'd perhaps look at rehoming the clown loach, as a shoal of these might push the bioload too far.


these sharks are not sociable,bala sharks are but red tails arent,the same as rainbows, they should be housed alone or in large groups so their bullying isnt placed upon 1 individual. if you get a large enough tank though i guess it could be doable. just keep an eye out for any nips/scrapes.

derfinately +1 on the 6ft tank, i love mine, the options are so big with a tank this size apart from the true tank busters such as pacu,giant gourami,irridescent sharks etc. also in a 6ft tank you could get the loach a few friends and keep it.

can you post pics of the possible barbs, as there are many which are fin nippers and really shouldnt ever be housed with angels/gouramis.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I will try although I think they could be a tetra of some type after finally seeing them still for long enough!!! They are silver, red "eyebrow" and a black dot on the body.

Couple of pics of the fish mentioned in these posts - none of tank yet as camera batteries dies again


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> these sharks are not sociable,bala sharks are but red tails arent,the same as rainbows, they should be housed alone or in large groups so their bullying isnt placed upon 1 individual. if you get a large enough tank though i guess it could be doable. just keep an eye out for any nips/scrapes.
> 
> derfinately +1 on the 6ft tank, i love mine, the options are so big with a tank this size apart from the true tank busters such as pacu,giant gourami,irridescent sharks etc. also in a 6ft tank you could get the loach a few friends and keep it.
> 
> can you post pics of the possible barbs, as there are many which are fin nippers and really shouldnt ever be housed with angels/gouramis.


My apologies... I wrongly presumed bala's.... yeah deffo only keep one. I couldn't work out why they were quoted to only reach 8"... explains it all ahah.

I'm struggling with working out as to what these 2 small fish could be...

so far all I can think of is... harlequin raspbora, or a washed out rosy barb.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Some healthy looking fish there btw!


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks hun  I will try to get a pic of the titchy ones in a while - I am all stressed adn covered in bearing grease after someone came to view our trailer and asked me to nip the bearings up!!!!! I am here in gladiator sandals and jeggings for blimeys sake do I look like a mechanic hahaha


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## hayley13 (May 27, 2010)

hi i have a big tank with different types of cichilds in you really want to keep just the cichilds in the tank other wise you will end up with problems,the parrot should be ok but def want to get rid of the others. you can put a plec in with them as i have one in mine and they all get on really well. one way i found that helped all my cichilds to get on is get them as juviniles as they dont know any different. hope this helps


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

are they maybe red eye tetra?

http://www.somethingsphishy.com/images/Red Eye Tetra.jpg

i think i can see one in the background of one of the pics.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

beautiful fish by the way, they look very healthy. if the small fish are tetra, they really need to be in a school of 6 or more.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

The certainly look like red eyed yes hun - shall try to source some more 

HAving issues right now trying to source a suitable light system that doesn't require a remortgage for a Vision 450


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

cant believe how beautiful that angelfish is, theres not often one that i think is gorgeous but yous as adorable :mf_dribble:

cant help you with the lighting, will have a look around and see what i can find. whats wrong with the lighting you have already?

edit- http://www.justjuwel.co.uk/ is this any help?


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I am just sorting out to get a Vision 450 hun - I currently have the 180 but feel it would be far better for the fish to go wayyy bigger 

The 450 comes without a lighting system so I can either buy a whole new light unit and flaps or can perhaps build a mesh cover for tank and have suspended lighting as a feature 

Thanks for the comments on the Angel too - I don't generally have much of a soft spot for them but agree that he/she is stunning too


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ah i see, i use prismatic sheets on top of my tanks, they are meant for large light fittings, and they disperse the light really well, can be cut to any size (i can get them in 4ftx2ft and 2ft x2ft sheets) and are lightweight and make great tank covers,they only cost a few pounds per sheet and can be bought from i think any electrical wholesalers http://www.goodmart.com/images/prodimages/clp/prismatic_lense.jpg . i sit my lights on top of these and it works great. i have just made a light fitting for my 4ft tank by cutting a piece of wiring conduit down to the right length, sitting it on top of the light tube and it stops any light form escaping the tank from the top. (can you tell my husband works at an electrical wholesaler :2thumb: ) its a white triangular conduit, and it fits perfectly, il post pics if you want.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

That would be fab hun please


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

will take some and post them on this thread asap :2thumb:


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks hunny  Put some cichlid pics up in pic section


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

here are some pics of my diy light fitting which i have over my 4ft fancy goldfish tank. hope you can see them ok.

from the front









underneath










the end caps are the proper ones from the electrical conduit i used,they are taped on with white electrical tape and the ends hold the tube in nicely










underneath again










as you can see, the end caps prevent the light tube and fitting from slipping into the tank when the prismatic sheet is off for maintainence.










the prismatic sheet, we drilled 2" holes into it for easy feeding and to allow us to get our fingers in there to lift it off the tank, the square is what we use to sit over the hole when not in use


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