# 'Darth' Leopard Gecko



## mad4frogs

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a black leopard gecko with red eyes either has or is going to be produced. I've read posts about it on another Leopard Gecko forum (American).

If anyone knows any information on the back ground of this 'morph' whether it has been produced or if breeders are still trying for a 'Darth Vador' looking Leo.

Completely black with red eyes.

So what could the genetics be behind this 'morph' ? 
Eclipse ?
Midnight Blizzards ?
Black Pearls ?
RAPTORS ?

I remember something about midnight Blizzards, Eclipse & even the Mack Snow genes being crossed. How the red eyes would show up I'm not sure. Maybe then the RAPTOR genes would need to be added also ?



I also asked a question (on American forum) about grey banded Leopard Geckos too - these apparently were being worked on, not much information was given about it though, at the time I asked. 

Anyone know of any way these could be produced, or how 'they' are 'working' on them ?


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## Morphene

That was supposed to be ME above ^^^ submitting the thread (forgot to log out :blush 

:bash:


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## sam12345

The Darth Bell (i think its called) is something someone is worthing on in the states.

Im pretty sure the genetics behind it would be SSBBB (Super Snow Bells Blazing Blizzard) I think they are going to add the enigma gene into the mix.

The red eyes would be achieved by the SS eye trait and the bells albino.

I cant see it becoming completely black though maybe just grey.


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## K.J.Geckos

they have produced a black leopard gecko already havent they.it was in the lizzard section a couple of weeks ago about it.going for about £2k i think.not to keen myself but i think the red eye mix would be pretty cool.i dont know why but when i had read the thread title i had a strange image of a gecko with a light saber lol.random!


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## meatgecko

bah this thread disappointed me I was expecting a lizard wearing some kind of darth vader mask  I'm sure I've seen pics of 'black' leos before they are black as such just very dark grey


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## K.J.Geckos

meatgecko said:


> bah this thread disappointed me I was expecting a lizard wearing some kind of darth vader mask  I'm sure I've seen pics of 'black' leos before they are black as such just very dark grey


thats a type of blizzard hunny your thinking about not what we are on about.


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## sam12345

Everyone would assume that the black pearl would be the easiest way to get a black gecko with red eyes.
But in my opinion i dont think it will be that simple. To have a gecko with red eyes the gecko must be expressing an albino trait, which also removes all black pigment.


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## Jon2ooo8

sam12345 said:


> Everyone would assume that the black pearl would be the easiest way to get a black gecko with red eyes.
> But in my opinion i dont think it will be that simple. To have a gecko with red eyes the gecko must be expressing an albino trait, which also removes all black pigment.


*nods* would be a very tricky task to be able to make a black leo with red eyes.


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## Morphene

sam12345 said:


> Everyone would assume that the black pearl would be the easiest way to get a black gecko with red eyes.
> But in my opinion i dont think it will be that simple. To have a gecko with red eyes the gecko must be expressing an albino trait, which also removes all black pigment.


 
This was problem discussed on the American forum at the time..... But there was something mentioned about a possible direction to go in. I just wondered if there was any progress or results so far or if anyone had any further 'updates' on it.

I guess it's not really something that would be publicly announced until they were 100% sure of the genetic background, breeding results, compatibility with other morphs & whether there are any deformities or problems with adult stock. All this I would imagine comes prior to selling anything to the public?

Has nobody heard about the grey banded Leopard Geckos ?


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## sam12345

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> This was problem discussed on the American forum at the time..... But there was something mentioned about a possible direction to go in. I just wondered if there was any progress or results so far or if anyone had any further 'updates' on it.
> 
> I guess it's not really something that would be publicly announced until they were 100% sure of the genetic background, breeding results, compatibility with other morphs & whether there are any deformities or problems with adult stock. All this I would imagine comes prior to selling anything to the public?
> 
> Has nobody heard about the grey banded Leopard Geckos ?


Their way round it was using low very dark blazzing blizzards (bells strain).
The way around the the eclipse eyes was using the super snow eye trait, with the albino to turn it red.

Super snow blizzards can be very dark. Imo i cant see that working too well either. All the SSBB's ive seen (tremper) have been pure white. Although there isnt many around.

I think it would be very hit and miss and i dont think its something that could be reproduced consistently.

Grey banded ??? Enlighten me!


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## purpleskyes

I have a mack snow patternless who does go quite dark but still not anywere near black .










Also even as dark as she is it all depends on temps doesnt it, shes this dark when shes on the cold side of her Rub but when shes on warm side she gets lighter. I am guessing this would also be the case with a SSBBB as it also is with midnight blizzards the colour changes alot.


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## Morphene

sam12345 said:


> Their way round it was using low very dark blazzing blizzards (bells strain).
> The way around the the eclipse eyes was using the super snow eye trait, with the albino to turn it red.
> 
> Super snow blizzards can be very dark. Imo i cant see that working too well either. All the SSBB's ive seen (tremper) have been pure white. Although there isnt many around.
> 
> I think it would be very hit and miss and i dont think its something that could be reproduced consistently.


Still worth a try though I reckon 
Although are you suggesting it would be impossible to line breed the best examples or just difficult regardless of how 'nice' the parents looked, as the babies could still look nothing like the parents?



> Grey banded ??? Enlighten me!


 
Yellow (or orange) base colour with grey bands across the body :2thumb:

Not too sure on how, when I asked, nothing was 'given away' lol


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## MrMike

I know someone who has the "ingredients" to create Darths this year, so who knows, the UK may be first. The Bell gene will help keep the dark colouring though, and it does have the potental to be spectacular.


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## Morphene

purpleskyes said:


> I have a mack snow patternless who does go quite dark but still not anywere near black .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also even as dark as she is it all depends on temps doesnt it, shes this dark when shes on the cold side of her Rub but when shes on warm side she gets lighter. I am guessing this would also be the case with a SSBBB as it also is with midnight blizzards the colour changes alot.


 
I would assume that incubating at low/cool temps & keeping the Leos (midnights) at low-ish temps until a year old would help to keep the colour darker.... I read that albinos kept at 92*F hot spot/area will develop the lightest & brightest colours & this will be the same also for all the Super Hypo morphs too. It has to be within the first year at high temps otherwise the colours will not be able to attain optimal light/brightness.


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## Morphene

MrMike said:


> I know someone who has the "ingredients" to create Darths this year, so who knows, the UK may be first. The Bell gene will help keep the dark colouring though, and it does have the potental to be spectacular.


 
Cool! It'll be good to see some photos if they're produced this year 

I guess the reverse could also be possible - a 'red' Leo with black eyes?


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## MrMike

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Cool! It'll be good to see some photos if they're produced this year
> 
> I guess the reverse could also be possible - a 'red' Leo with black eyes?


No true red colour has been discovered yet. I suppose a Tangerine Tornado/Blood hypo eclipse would be the closest.


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## Morphene

MrMike said:


> No true red colour has been discovered yet. I suppose a Tangerine Tornado/Blood hypo eclipse would be the closest.


 
Not yet....

I shouldn't think it would be long though.

Unless it also turns up unexpectedly when crossing either what you've suggested above or similar. Line breeding would most likely be the easiest/sure way to produce the RED colour.


This is the sort of red I mean...


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## sam12345

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Still worth a try though I reckon
> Although are you suggesting it would be impossible to line breed the best examples or just difficult regardless of how 'nice' the parents looked, as the babies could still look nothing like the parents?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yellow (or orange) base colour with grey bands across the body :2thumb:
> 
> Not too sure on how, when I asked, nothing was 'given away' lol


Nothing is impossible yet, we still have so far to go with leopard geckos.
I still believe that there are more eye traits to be discovered. Hopefully one day something that doesnt need albino to be red.
I do however think that the project will be a hard one and like you say the possibility of offspring being nothing like the parents is a very high one.



MrMike said:


> I know someone who has the "ingredients" to create Darths this year, so who knows, the UK may be first. The Bell gene will help keep the dark colouring though, and it does have the potental to be spectacular.


I know who you mean, lets hope it works out for them!



Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Cool! It'll be good to see some photos if they're produced this year
> 
> I guess the reverse could also be possible - a 'red' Leo with black eyes?


I know in the states they are still atleast another generation away from it, this years best possibilitys are MSBBBE's

IMO a red leo with black eyes is would be a lot easier to acheive, i think were on the edge of creating red geckos and i dont think the enigma gene has to come into play either, as mike says the tangerine tornados and blood hypos are certainly the closest. Looking at my male TT this morning i cant certainly see red highlights, just imagine what TUG could be hiding away


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## Morphene

sam12345 said:


> Nothing is impossible yet, we still have so far to go with leopard geckos.
> I still believe that there are more eye traits to be discovered. Hopefully one day something that doesnt need albino to be red.
> I do however think that the project will be a hard one and like you say the possibility of offspring being nothing like the parents is a very high one.


 
I would definitley like to see various eyes traits whether it's pattern &/or colour!




> I know in the states they are still atleast another generation away from it, this years best possibilitys are MSBBBE's
> 
> IMO a red leo with black eyes is would be a lot easier to acheive, i think were on the edge of creating red geckos and i dont think the enigma gene has to come into play either, as mike says the tangerine tornados and blood hypos are certainly the closest. Looking at my male TT this morning i cant certainly see red highlights,* just imagine what TUG could be hiding away*


 
Subtle hint(?) ^ :whistling2:

lol...anyway I would rather see a solid red Leo with black eyes, I think it would stand out more than a dark looking Leo, although the red eyes would be intensified against a dark/black back ground!

Like Yin & Yang


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## arkreptiles

Whilst we are very sceptical about any reproducable black gecko - a lot of talk so far .... 

Anyway assuming one is produced and becomes commercially available then a similar process to the production of the RADAR would give the red eyes - that is to say the isolation of the eclipse gene (which we might achieve this year but will need test breedings next year to confirm!!)


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## MrMike

arkreptiles said:


> Whilst we are very sceptical about any reproducable black gecko - a lot of talk so far ....
> 
> Anyway assuming one is produced and becomes commercially available then a similar process to the production of the RADAR would give the red eyes - that is to say the isolation of the eclipse gene (which we might achieve this year but will need test breedings next year to confirm!!)


The black pearls are reproducable, either recessive or codom according to TUGs site. I'm hoping codom then the price will drop quicker and I may be able to afford one in a couple of years 

The only problem with dropping the eclipse gene (or Supersnow for solid eyes) is one of the albino genes is needed to create red eyes, which by definaition stps the production or transpotation of melanin. I have seen pic sof Bell enigmas that look like they have black markings (instead of brown), but that could have been a crappy camera etc, i'll have a google.


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## gazz

For somthing close to black with red eyes.The way to go IMO is Black pearl X Enigma.

These enigma eyes.









On this Black pearl body.


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## gazz

MrMike said:


> I'm hoping codom.


Me to.

With this being the Heterozygous verison.Black pearl.









And this being the Homozygous verion.Super black pearl.










Coz if they are recessive and they vary that much in shade of colour IMO they would't be that good.It to much hassel to sell leo's on grade of color.But if there codom then it nice and cut and dry.Light brown HET.Dark black/brown ****.


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## teiryklav

hey, i dont really know leos, but how does morph came?
frist of all we only have normals, and maybe few albinos, how can the make many morphs like this??
are they doing transgenic?
or just mate them with elder morphs??
just a bit confused in gecko and bp morphs..


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## K.J.Geckos

just out of interest whilst we are talking about eye colour.has anyone seen that ron tremper is hinting that someone may produce a bright yellow eye gecko soon?


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> just out of interest whilst we are talking about eye colour.has anyone seen that ron tremper is hinting that someone may produce a bright yellow eye gecko soon?


Yep don't beleave the hype.There just Talbino blizzard from RAPTOR stock.It eyes just has low iris vaining and would be more browny/gold in the flesh rather than bright yellow.Tabino Patternless somtime express this eye coloring it nothing special.

Talbino yellow blizzard.









Talbino patternless.


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## gazz

teiryklav said:


> hey, i dont really know leos, but how does morph came?
> frist of all we only have normals, and maybe few albinos, how can the make many morphs like this??
> are they doing transgenic?
> or just mate them with elder morphs??
> just a bit confused in gecko and bp morphs..


Primery morphs like albino/patternless/snow/hypo/blizzard'etc'etc are genetic cockups.Frekas of nature.

Secondery morphs are combo's of primery morphs and mans doing like albino blizzard/hypo snow/albino snow patternless'etc'etc.


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> Yep don't beleave the hype.There just Talbino blizzard from RAPTOR stock.It eyes just has low iris vaining and would be more browny/gold in the flesh rather than bright yellow.Tabino Patternless somtime express this eye coloring it nothing special.
> 
> Talbino yellow blizzard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talbino patternless.


yeah.i think its like the whole enigma things.everyone went mental for them at first.they were so expensive.its only now i can afford them that i want them though lol!


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> yeah.i think its like the whole enigma things.everyone went mental for them at first.they were so expensive.its only now i can afford them that i want them though lol!


No a enigma is or rather was a brand new morph and the price tag was worthy at the time being new.Blazzing blizzard have been around a lond time now.But tremper going to put these blazzing blizzard (with yellowie iris) out at well i tred to think $2000 plus.That's just wrong as there blazzing blizzard with RAPTOR ancestory nothing more nothing less.


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## funky1

gazz said:


> On this Black pearl body.


Worth every penny imo - with or without the red eyes!!!!


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## Morphene

gazz said:


> No a enigma is or rather was a brand new morph and the price tag was worthy at the time being new.Blazzing blizzard have been around a lond time now.But tremper going to put these blazzing blizzard (with yellowie iris) out at well i tred to think $2000 plus.That's just wrong as there blazzing blizzard with RAPTOR ancestory nothing more nothing less.


 
These I've read about too - maybe on his site...(?) But Hyper-Xanthics (not hypo-melanistics) with yellow eyes too. These again I've seen mentioned, last year, on 'the American forum' - some really nice looking morphs people have produced on there!

Would Hyper-Xanthics be dominant over *Black Pearls or would they both be recessive to each other (*if they're NOT Co-Dom)

Could these also help towards producing a solid red Leopard Gecko? 
I guess making them more orange first, then gradually leaning more towards red?

YELLOW definanitely seems to be the most common colour of nearly every Leo morph - Do Black Pearls show any yellowing as they age? 


I've seen Emeralds & Rainbows which show a slight hint of green, then there's the blue-tails. A chocolate *actual brown* Leopard Gecko would look nice (not choc alb) & red as well.
Is it going to be possible to produce actual green or blue or red or brown Leopard Geckos?
How do you think this could be done for each colour?


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## MrMike

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> These I've read about too - maybe on his site...(?) But Hyper-Xanthics (not hypo-melanistics) with yellow eyes too. These again I've seen mentioned, last year, on 'the American forum' - some really nice looking morphs people have produced on there!


I know of two "lines" of Hyper Xanthics, one from Mr Tremper, which apparently is a yellow eye gene, although Gazz has already explained the logic behind that one. Another is JMGs, which are basically super high yellows, very bright and vibrant, with a yellow "carrot tail", banan tail maybe? lol



Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Would Hyper-Xanthics be dominant over *Black Pearls or would they both be recessive to each other (*if they're NOT Co-Dom)


Which Hyper Xanthic? I'm not sure either would be worth while dropping into black pearls. If a yellow eye gene can be isolated (like eclipse) then that could be pretty nice, or a line bred solid black body leo with a yellow tail?



Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Could these also help towards producing a solid red Leopard Gecko?
> I guess making them more orange first, then gradually leaning more towards red?


I can't see the hyper Xanthics from either line helping here, the TTs and blood hypos are on their way to red, just keep selective breeding them until it is acheived (or a single red gene pops up)

YELLOW definanitely seems to be the most common colour of nearly every Leo morph - Do Black Pearls show any yellowing as they age? 




Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I've seen Emeralds & Rainbows which show a slight hint of green, then there's the blue-tails. A chocolate *actual brown* Leopard Gecko would look nice (not choc alb) & red as well.
> Is it going to be possible to produce actual green or blue or red or brown Leopard Geckos?
> How do you think this could be done for each colour?


I'm sure selective breeding could pull a green colour through, one of our Enigmas has a few patches of green, although I wouldn't dare call her an Emerine :whistling2:

There was a blue project, kind of a purple colour, not sure what has happened to that.


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## Morphene

MrMike said:


> I know of two "lines" of Hyper Xanthics, one from Mr Tremper, which apparently is a yellow eye gene, although Gazz has already explained the logic behind that one. Another is JMGs, which are basically super high yellows, very bright and vibrant, with a yellow "carrot tail", banan tail maybe? lol
> 
> Which Hyper Xanthic? I'm not sure either would be worth while dropping into black pearls. If a yellow eye gene can be isolated (like eclipse) then that could be pretty nice, or a line bred solid black body leo with a yellow tail?


 
Or black body & carrot-tail AKA the DURACELL morph : victory:
or white head & black body AKA the GUINESS morph...





> I'm sure selective breeding could pull a green colour through, one of our Enigmas has a few patches of green, although I wouldn't dare call her an Emerine :whistling2:


:blush: :whistling2:

Emerald Leopard Geckos




> There was a blue project, kind of a purple colour, not sure what has happened to that.


"Helena Nova from the Czech Republic" ?

Image:Bluetail mango20.jpg - Leopard Gecko Wiki


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## SleepyD

MrMike said:


> There was a blue project, kind of a purple colour, not sure what has happened to that.


would that be the Bluetail Calico? ... now that is a nice leo


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## MrMike

SleepyD said:


> would that be the Bluetail Calico? ... now that is a nice leo


No, not that one, although the Blue tails are nice. I remember seeing a blue/purple body somewhere, i'll have a google see if I can find it.


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## MrMike

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> :blush: :whistling2:
> 
> Emerald Leopard Geckos


Very green......


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## arkreptiles

MrMike said:


> Very green......


or a good knowledge of photoshop - lol!!!


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## MrMike

arkreptiles said:


> or a good knowledge of photoshop - lol!!!


:no1:


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## sam12345

As mike has said alot of geckos especially tangerines and tang enigmas will show a greenish tint to them... i cant see how they deserve a new morph name.
I do have to same though the extreme "emerines" are actually very nice... although not green at all.


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## gazz

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> :blush: :whistling2:
> 
> Emerald Leopard Geckos


OLD name (Low grade)-Tangerine price tag $30.Ten year back.

NEW name Emerine and a bit of blagin and bigging up = price tag $1500.

It called getting robbed:gasp: and he dosen't even use a shot gun:thumb:.


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## sam12345

gazz said:


> OLD name (Low grade)-Tangerine price tag $30.Ten year back.
> 
> NEW name Emerine and a bit of blagin and bigging up = price tag $1500.
> 
> It called getting robbed:gasp: and he dosen't even use a shot gun:thumb:.


:gasp: How can you say that! Legend that bloke. :whistling2:

In all seriousness though, i think everyone has started to realise now how much of a con most of his morphs are.


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## MrMike

sam12345 said:


> In all seriousness though, i think everyone has started to realise now how much of a con most of his morphs are.


Nah mate, I had honestly never seen a "Blanco" before they were created :whistling2:


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## SleepyD

gazz said:


> OLD name (Low grade)-Tangerine price tag $30.Ten year back.
> 
> NEW name Emerine and a bit of blagin and bigging up = price tag $1500.
> 
> It called getting robbed:gasp: and he dosen't even use a shot gun:thumb:.


just think of all those leo owners who've had spitting images of some high price tag leo's for years..... not only bought a lot cheaper but sold a lot cheaper too... just without a fancy name ~ bit like going shopping and buying own-brand  :lol2:


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## SleepyD

MrMike said:


> Nah mate, I had honestly never seen a "Blanco" before they were created :whistling2:


you know drinking martini and white wine rots your brain don't you : victory:


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## MrMike

SleepyD said:


> you know drinking martini and white wine rots your brain don't you : victory:


:crazy:


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## funky1

SleepyD said:


> you know drinking martini and white wine rots your brain don't you : victory:





MrMike said:


> :crazy:


It`s no wonder - you wanna see what this one stocks in his wine cel...ahem, I mean new reptile room!!!!!!!!


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## MrMike

funky1 said:


> It`s no wonder - you wanna see what this one stocks in his wine cel...ahem, I mean new reptile room!!!!!!!!


Effeicient use of space :whistling2:


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## eddy

back to what's clearly the most important point of this post, darth vader WELL didnt have red eyes, they were black!

duh!!


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## boywonder

darth vader may have had black eyes but the darth bell will have bright red, bell albino eclipse style eyes from the super snow genetics :whistling2:


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## Optikal

*DARTH LEO!*
​


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