# What would this pair produce?



## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Hello,I was just wondering what a Mack Snow Tremper 100% het Raptor(male) and a Raptor(female) would produce?I've not gotten the female yet so I'm open to suggestions of what my male will go with : victory:

Thanks,
Fiona


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## daveplymouth (May 26, 2009)

you would get normals , normal eclipse , mack snows , raptors , mack snow eclipse , tremper albino , mack albino , mack raptor. 12.5% chance of each one. 

Could be wrong just off the top my head this.:2thumb:


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

leopard geckos i think


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

you wont get any normals as raptor is a tremper albino based morph same as the mack tremepr

so mack raptors, tremepr eclipse, raptors and trempers methinks


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Talbino snow SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse X Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped = .

Talbino normal HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse normal.
Talbino aberrant HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse aberrant.
Talbino hyper aberrant HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse hyper aberrant.
Talbino striped HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse striped.
Talbino reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse reverse striped.
Talbino patternless reverse striped HET Eclipes.
Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.
Talbino snow SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse snow SPLIT Super snow.
Talbino snow aberrant SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse snow aberrant SPLIT Super snow.
Talbino snow hyper aberrant SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse snow hyper aberrant SPLIT Super snow.
Talbino snow striped SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse snow striped SPLIT Super snow.
Talbino snow reverse striped SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse snow reverse striped SPLIT Super snow.
Talbino snow patternless reverse striped SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipes.
Talbino eclipse snow patternless reverse striped SPLIT Super snow.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Alright,any more replies?


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

fionayee said:


> Alright,any more replies?


 
Err you dont need any more replies with what Gazz wrote, that covers everything.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Yeah, clever the leogen calculator isn't it?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

nuttybabez said:


> Yeah, clever the leogen calculator isn't it?


The only genetic calculator used was the one in my head :Na_Na_Na_Na:. I was giving results, Long before any calculators was available, 
So no this time clever me :lol2:.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Okay,but what's a Talbino snow SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

tis a mix of reptile/bird/made up genetic terms.

Talbino snow SPLIT Super snow/HET Eclipse 

translated into reptile speak is:-

a mack snow tremper albino het eclipse


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Okay,but mine is a het Raptor...is raptor known as eclipse?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Nope, RAPTOR is made up of several things -

Red eye (eclipse)
Patternless (and this is patterless-stripe not the murphys patternless gene)
Tremper Albino 
Orange (Tangerine) 

So you could have a patternless-stripe tremper albino het for RAPTOR and it would actually be het eclipse which is the bit missing to make RAPTOR.
Or Tremper Albino het patternless & eclipse
Or Patternless Eclipse het tremper albino

And so on and so forth - het RAPTOR is more complicated because its a combination morph.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

The problem with saying het RAPTOR is it makes the patternless part of RAPTOR seems simple recessive (like Tremper albino), when it isn't. The easiest way to take it is....

Tremper albino het RAPTOR means Tremper albino het Eclipse.
Eclipse het RAPTOR means Eclipse het Tremper albino.
Normal het RAPTOR means Normal het Tremper albino and Eclipse.

If you get any patternless babies (as in patternless stripe, not Murphy patternless) then count it as a bonus


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

oh...okay.Now the list Gazz said all makes sense :lol2:
Thanks guys


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Hey guys,got another question and didn't want to start another thread.
what would a tremper albino banded and a mack snow tremper het raptor produce?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

fionayee said:


> Hey guys,got another question and didn't want to start another thread.
> what would a tremper albino banded and a mack snow tremper het raptor produce?


50% Mack snow Tremper albino poss (50%) het eclipse
50% Tremper albino poss (50%) het eclipse
Babies will most probably be banded, but you may get some jungle/stripe/reverse stripe/patternless stripe influence coming through.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

MrMike said:


> 50% Mack snow Tremper albino poss (50%) het eclipse
> 50% Tremper albino poss (50%) het eclipse
> Babies will most probably be banded, but you may get some jungle/stripe/reverse stripe/patternless stripe influence coming through.


Thanks Mike,another question.If I want to produce something like this: http://reptiles4you.com/gecko pics/TREMPER ALBINO MACK SNOW.jpg
What would go best with a mack snow tremper het raptor?Any of these will get me a step closer to getting the mack snow tremper in the picture?A Aptor het raptor,a banded tremper albino,mack snow tremper albino.
Thanks!


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

The leo in the pic is a mack snow tremper albino so the mack snow tremper albino x mack snow tremper albino would be the best pairing. Although the APTOR and the tremper albino would also give you some mack snow tremper albino offspring aswell.

That is a particularly light coloured gecko (pictured) so I suspect you would have to incubate at a fairly high temperature or breed 2 very pale geckos together to get a similar leo. 

Mack Snow Tremper Albinos come in various shades and its very hard to know exactly what will hatch. I hope that helps you.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

So I have to incubate them at 88 degrees celcius?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

fionayee said:


> So I have to incubate them at 88 degrees celcius?


If you want males. You could incubate lower for the first 3 weeks to detemrine the sex then increase the temp slowly to create the colour you want. Not fool proof but some poeple have had success with this method.

You will need really pale parents as well for a better chance at the desired look.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

MrMike said:


> If you want males. You could incubate lower for the first 3 weeks to detemrine the sex then increase the temp slowly to create the colour you want. Not fool proof but some poeple have had success with this method.
> 
> You will need really pale parents as well for a better chance at the desired look.


Well...my male is this color









and I haven't bought the female yet but it should be either this one









or this one (Aptor Het Raptor)


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

The APTOR wouldn't be a good choice if you are wanting pale babies. Although the APTOR is right up my street!


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Well,I dont want the eclipse gene in him wasted so I think I'm gonna get the Aptor.Who knows,maybe I'll get better babies than pale ones


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Is your male het Eclipse?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

yep he`s het raptor.

but you could always get both girls................


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Well,at first I couldn't get both girls because I don't have enough cash.But now my brother has decided to join me for the money because after the females lay eggs and them eggs hatch,we can sell those babies so yeah...he just wants the babies.So he's paying RM350 for the Aptor Het Raptor so now me and him can get 2 females.But now the Tremper Mack Snow isn't for sale anymore.
So anybody here has any suggestions as to what female I should get to mate with my male and produce expensive morphs?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

fionayee said:


> Well,at first I couldn't get both girls because I don't have enough cash.But now my brother has decided to join me for the money because after the females lay eggs and them eggs hatch,we can sell those babies so yeah...he just wants the babies.So he's paying RM350 for the Aptor Het Raptor so now me and him can get 2 females.But now the Tremper Mack Snow isn't for sale anymore.
> So anybody here has any suggestions as to what female I should get to mate with my male and produce expensive morphs?


You need to spend money to make money. However, making money on Leos is rather unlikely to be honest.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

maybe the leo market is different in malaysia though?

could you find a mack snow het tremper? should be cheaper than the mack tremper and you`d get similar results?
hopefully you`d get a supersnow tremper in the little ones, as well as trempers, mack trempers, and macks.

you could incubate for girls and keep a few back to breed when they were old enough, increase your numbers that way, and sell a few on to buy a more expensive morph too?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> maybe the leo market is different in malaysia though?


I didn't notice that! Maybe the market is different over there?


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

MrMike said:


> You need to spend money to make money. However, making money on Leos is rather unlikely to be honest.


We don't need to buy incubators here because the weather is warm enough and we dont need heat mat/heat lamps either.That saves quite a lot of money.



pigglywiggly said:


> maybe the leo market is different in malaysia though?
> 
> could you find a mack snow het tremper? should be cheaper than the mack tremper and you`d get similar results?
> hopefully you`d get a supersnow tremper in the little ones, as well as trempers, mack trempers, and macks.
> ...


Well,someone offered me a Mack Snow Tremper her Eclipse female and priced it at RM850 which is way over the market price here.Market price for that now is RM600 - RM700 so I just told him it was too expensive.I got my mack snow tremper het eclipse for RM450,bonus :2thumb: the seller was clearing them.Market price for a mack tremper here,I'm not really sure but I think it is about RM400 - RM500.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Well,when I went to collect the Aptor Het Eclipse last night,I asked the seller what would be a nice 2nd female to go with my Mack Snow Tremper Het Eclipse and obviously he said Eclipse.He also mentioned something about breeding my Mack Snow Tremper het Eclipse to the Eclipse might get me Dreamsickles?Now my new aim is to somehow get some Dreamsickle babies out of my Tremper Mack Het Eclipse and a Eclipse if that is possible at all?
Someone tell me more about how to get Dreamsickles babies please?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

to get novas and dreamsickles you need to put an enigma in too.

have a look on the leopard geckos wiki, it gives you the morphs you need to combine to get the expensive ones............


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

The guy I bought the mack snow tremper het raptor from just offered me a Tremper Enigma het Eclipse for RM650 which is a very cheap price because the market price for them now is RM1000+ and just in case you are wondering why he is selling her for such a low price,it's because he is clearing his geckos so yeah...
Anyways,do you think the Tremper Enigma Het Eclipse will get me a Dreamsickle?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

you`d have a chance of nova and dreamsickle in that pairing, plus lots of different albinos and enigmas - would be a nice pairing as long as you`re aware you might get one or two with enigma issues.


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Okay.I used the leo morph calculator and the results:
6.25% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse Tremper Albino 
12.5% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Tremper Albino het Eclipse 
6.25% Mack Snow Eclipse Tremper Albino 
12.5% Mack Snow Tremper Albino het Eclipse 
6.25% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Tremper Albino 
6.25% Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse Tremper Albino 
12.5% Enigma (1 Copy) Tremper Albino het Eclipse 
6.25% Eclipse Tremper Albino 
12.5% Tremper Albino het Eclipse 
6.25% Enigma (1 Copy) Tremper Albino 
6.25% Tremper Albino 
6.25% Mack Snow Tremper Albino

Are these two counted as Novas?
6.25% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse Tremper Albino
6.25% Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse Tremper Albino


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mack snow + raptor + enigma = dreamsickle ( so that would be the tremper mack snow enigma eclipses )

enigma + raptor = nova ( that would be the tremper eclipse enigmas )


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

Ah,thanks alot.So what about BEEs?Aren't they Enigma Eclipses too?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

yep they are, do you like them? i`m not a fan myself


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

I dont really like how they look so I'm not really a fan  thanks for all the guidance.Now a new question just popped up.
Should I get a Enigma Het Bell Outcrossed Redstripe(male) & Tangerine Bell Albino(female) for RM900(this is for the pair and it's a very cheap price,plus I have the space to keep them) or the Tremper Enigma Het Eclipse(female) for RM650(this is also a very cheap price as the market price is RM1xxx now)?I'd get both if I had enough money but sadly I recently just spent RM700 on a Aptor Het Raptor :blush:


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

anybody?


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## fionayee (May 1, 2009)

I'm getting a Mack Snow Enigma Het Raptor tomorrow and I've calculated the outcomes if I breed it with my Mack Snow Tremper Het Raptor and the results:
3.125% Super Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse het Tremper Albino - super nova
3.125% Enigma (1 Copy) het Tremper Albino 
3.125% Normal het Tremper Albino
3.125% Super Snow het Tremper Albino
3.125% Super Snow Enigma (1 Copy) het Tremper Albino
3.125% Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse het Tremper Albino - nova
3.125% Eclipse het Tremper Albino - raptor
3.125% Super Snow Eclipse het Tremper Albino - super raptor
6.25% Super Snow Enigma (1 Copy) het Eclipse het Tremper Albino 
6.25% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) Eclipse het Tremper Albino - dreamsickle
6.25% Super Snow het Eclipse het Tremper Albino 
6.25% Mack Snow Eclipse het Tremper Albino - snow raptor
6.25% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) het Tremper Albino 
6.25% Mack Snow het Tremper Albino 
6.25% Enigma (1 Copy) het Eclipse het Tremper Albino 
6.25% Normal het Eclipse het Tremper Albino
12.5% Mack Snow Enigma (1 Copy) het Eclipse het Tremper Albino
12.5% Mack Snow het Eclipse het Tremper Albino
are there any shorter names for the morphs?Like the Dreamsickle,Raptor,Snow Raptor,Super Raptor,Nova,Super Nova?


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