# Hybrids



## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

whats your opinion on hybrids? eg blood parrots, or flowerhorn cichlids. Personally, im pretty against them, not religious but it is sorta playing god IMO. I just don't see the point in it. If the fish produced served a real purpose then maybe it could be justified. But for something purely ornamental I just think it should be done

so yeah, yes or no on hybrids. With reasons lol


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont think it a neccessary, the fish look deformed, its a bit different in dogs and even snakes and the parrot fish look ugly to boot!


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

most of the hybrids i know of are ugly. :whip:


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## sasandjo (Dec 8, 2007)

i say no but... people buy what they wanna buy , if someone wants a parrot cichlid theres gonna be a market for them,its the same with fancy goldfish their just deformities not to my taste but they sell like hot cakes......


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

alpharoyals said:


> its a bit different in dogs and even snakes and the parrot fish look ugly to boot!


It's very differant in dogs as these are not hybrids but are differant versions of the same species.Snake & lizard hybrids are just as wrong as blood parrots and flowerhorns IMO.And the thing i hate even more is how a hybrid can be more expensive than a pure bloods.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

mike515 said:


> whats your opinion on hybrids? eg blood parrots, or flowerhorn cichlids. Personally, im pretty against them, not religious but it is sorta playing god IMO. I just don't see the point in it. If the fish produced served a real purpose then maybe it could be justified. But for something purely ornamental I just think it should be done
> 
> so yeah, yes or no on hybrids. With reasons lol


Sady it's give people what they want and sady people are buying.Blood parrots i like not one bit they just look odd.Flowerhorns look ok but are hybrid like you said if the served a purpose then maybe it could be justified well to that i say flowerhorn is a good size a pan fish.I've eaten Tilapia-(Mozambique mouthbrooders) before they was nice so no reason why flowerhorn wouldn't tasted nice either.You said blood parrots and flowerhorns but there are still a fair amount of hybrid out there that always happening redtail X tiger catfish,t-bar cichlid X convict ciclids,livebearing fish are all ways hybriding balloon mollys  for a start.There are 3 strong Known species of discus cichlid and even all them have been hybrid to each other to give the colours and strain of discus we have today.I do beleave that hybrid is a part of evolution as much as genetic hickup selection that works.But only when mother nature let it happen no man.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

You can't really object to a fish on the grounds that it is purely ornamental - isn't that the purpose of any fish in a tank?


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## Jake89 (May 30, 2007)

i agree with it as it brig diversity to the breeds!


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

no, tank fish are not just ornamental at all. Some are yes, but I don't keep fish because the look good. You ever seen a full grown giant gourami? they are UGLY. I keep fish as I like to learn. There aren't many animals that are as strange as a lot of fish species. I can't explain it properly but not all fish are just there to look pretty


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

Jake89 said:


> i agree with it as it brig diversity to the breeds!


that's not a valid reason, there's enough species of fish for anyone to find something they will like. ranging from fish like neon tetras right up to arapaima. No one can say there isn't already enough selection.


You can't really object to a fish on the grounds that it is purely ornamental - isn't that the purpose of any fish in a tank?

if you start arguing this, then you open the gate to dyed fish. Making something look better is not an excuse to start trying to create new animals. What's next? genetically engineered animals with big heads or whatever just because they look better. what bugs me is if this was monkeys for example being bred together just to look better there would be uproar. But most people have the attitude of its only a fish.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Evie said:


> You can't really object to a fish on the grounds that it is purely ornamental - isn't that the purpose of any fish in a tank?


no your right, but you do object when the animals in question have been inbred and hybridised to such an extent that it can no longer shut its mouth. this could kick up a real storm,but i kinda feel the same way about some dog breeds, despite them not being hybrids

Alex


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Fair enough but you said 


> If the fish produced served a real purpose then maybe it could be justified. But for something purely ornamental I just think it should be done


So I just wondered what important purpose fish in a tank served. If they are there to give viewing or educational pleasure to their keepers then this can be fullfilled by any kind of fish, hybrid or otherwise. : victory:


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

eg zebra plecos. breeding for conservation.

food fishes for example are purpose fish. Hybrids are not educational as much as true species as they aren't a natural animal therefore the only education learned is the effect of hybridisation

another reason to avoid hybrid fish, is respect from other fishkeepers. Many hardcore fishnuts will not entertain any time for hybrid breeders/keepers. Myself included. That's not just fish hybrids, all intentional hybrids. If my fish were to hybridise then i would care for the babies. I can't justify killing hybrids, its not their fault. But doing it on purpose


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Evie said:


> Fair enough but you said
> 
> So I just wondered what important purpose fish in a tank served. If they are there to give viewing or educational pleasure to their keepers then this can be fullfilled by any kind of fish, hybrid or otherwise. : victory:


would you keep a gecko that has been bred to have no eyes and three tails in a tank? 

Just because it is a fish, does not make it any less significant then a reptile, or even a mammal.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Esfa said:


> would you keep a gecko that has been bred to have no eyes and three tails in a tank?
> 
> Just because it is a fish, does not make it any less significant then a reptile, or even a mammal.


No and I'm not saying that I think it's acceptaple to breed hybrids. 
I was just trying to establish exactly what it was that was being objected to since the original argument merely said that they are pointless and ugly. Now you are getting to the real problem which is the health of these fish and the dangers of selective breeding for specific traits.
I don't agree with breeding anything that looks different from the way it would look in its natural wild state. You would have thought we would have learned by looking at what we have done to dogs. :bash:

On the other hand, with hybrids like blood parrots, since they are mostly infertile, they aren't going to have any kind of real impact on diversity of breeds.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'm not into hybrid fish...or hybrid anything for that matter. snake and lizard morphs are pretty and all but don't do a thing for me. i like real, natural occuring animals. why are people so compelled to change what millions of years of natural selection has produced?. you get a perfectly adapted, finely tuned animal and start tinkering with it's genes as if we could possibly improve on things. but i do see the profit potiential and peoples innate obssession with collecting odd things. i'm not knocking anyone from doing these things... to each his own. it all just seems like buying a beautiful, classic ferrari and then start pimping it out with all manner of things.... hey some curb feelers and maybe neon lights would be cool.... until you have just a hint of the classic car. i suppose that if we could do some of these things to trees we would.... soon you might be able to walk through a forest full of pink trees and red grass.... i for one think that backpacking in such a forest would.... well, you lose something. i just always think about what has been done to goldfish over all these years. i'll take a silver arrowana any day. maybe it's just me liking things wild and wooley. most of these hybrids and morphs just seem to lose a lot of their wild appeal to me. but if that's what turns you on.... many of these things do occur in nature from time to time but they are a fluke of the process of natural selection. and then some folks seem to just want to collect all the colors like kids collecting marbles instead of keeping herps purely for the love of these beasts. as i stated, they are pretty but after a while they cease to be what they were as a species in my eyes. they no longer represent the species. i do like bettas and their varieties but i consider them domestic fish. the more we tinker with things the closer we come to domesticating wild things. most morphs that are outragiously colored would not stand a chance in the wild. to me, that robs them of something of their heritage. a big problem in this world is how we humans feel compelled to bend nature to our wills. to change things to our liking. this is just my opinion. no big deal. we strive to change all things it seems be it mammals, birds, fish, herps or whatever. i'll take a classic burm over a morph or a classic fish anyday over a hybrid. these things are purely for our amusement and personal tastes.


... i'm done... let the games begin... i'm sure there are some seriously opposing views on this.:lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

HABU said:


> i'm not into hybrid fish...or hybrid anything for that matter. snake and lizard morphs are pretty and all but don't do a thing for me. i like real, natural occuring animals. why are people so compelled to change what millions of years of natural selection has produced?. you get a perfectly adapted, finely tuned animal and start tinkering with it's genes as if we could possibly improve on things. but i do see the profit potiential and peoples innate obssession with collecting odd things. i'm not knocking anyone from doing these things... to each his own. it all just seems like buying a beautiful, classic ferrari and then start pimping it out with all manner of things.... hey some curb feelers and maybe neon lights would be cool.... until you have just a hint of the classic car. i suppose that if we could do some of these things to trees we would.... soon you might be able to walk through a forest full of pink trees and red grass.... i for one think that backpacking in such a forest would.... well, you lose something. i just always think about what has been done to goldfish over all these years. i'll take a silver arrowana any day. maybe it's just me liking things wild and wooley. most of these hybrids and morphs just seem to lose a lot of their wild appeal to me. but if that's what turns you on.... many of these things do occur in nature from time to time but they are a fluke of the process of natural selection. and then some folks seem to just want to collect all the colors like kids collecting marbles instead of keeping herps purely for the love of these beasts. as i stated, they are pretty but after a while they cease to be what they were as a species in my eyes. they no longer represent the species. i do like bettas and their varieties but i consider them domestic fish. the more we tinker with things the closer we come to domesticating wild things. most morphs that are outragiously colored would not stand a chance in the wild. to me, that robs them of something of their heritage. a big problem in this world is how we humans feel compelled to bend nature to our wills. to change things to our liking. this is just my opinion. no big deal. we strive to change all things it seems be it mammals, birds, fish, herps or whatever. i'll take a classic burm over a morph or a classic fish anyday over a hybrid. these things are purely for our amusement and personal tastes.
> 
> 
> ... i'm done... let the games begin... i'm sure there are some seriously opposing views on this.:lol2:


Brilliant post! I completely agree with every word you have written.


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

HABU said:


> i'm not into hybrid fish...or hybrid anything for that matter. snake and lizard morphs are pretty and all but don't do a thing for me. i like real, natural occuring animals. why are people so compelled to change what millions of years of natural selection has produced?. you get a perfectly adapted, finely tuned animal and start tinkering with it's genes as if we could possibly improve on things. but i do see the profit potiential and peoples innate obssession with collecting odd things. i'm not knocking anyone from doing these things... to each his own. it all just seems like buying a beautiful, classic ferrari and then start pimping it out with all manner of things.... hey some curb feelers and maybe neon lights would be cool.... until you have just a hint of the classic car. i suppose that if we could do some of these things to trees we would.... soon you might be able to walk through a forest full of pink trees and red grass.... i for one think that backpacking in such a forest would.... well, you lose something. i just always think about what has been done to goldfish over all these years. i'll take a silver arrowana any day. maybe it's just me liking things wild and wooley. most of these hybrids and morphs just seem to lose a lot of their wild appeal to me. but if that's what turns you on.... many of these things do occur in nature from time to time but they are a fluke of the process of natural selection. and then some folks seem to just want to collect all the colors like kids collecting marbles instead of keeping herps purely for the love of these beasts. as i stated, they are pretty but after a while they cease to be what they were as a species in my eyes. they no longer represent the species. i do like bettas and their varieties but i consider them domestic fish. the more we tinker with things the closer we come to domesticating wild things. most morphs that are outragiously colored would not stand a chance in the wild. to me, that robs them of something of their heritage. a big problem in this world is how we humans feel compelled to bend nature to our wills. to change things to our liking. this is just my opinion. no big deal. we strive to change all things it seems be it mammals, birds, fish, herps or whatever. i'll take a classic burm over a morph or a classic fish anyday over a hybrid. these things are purely for our amusement and personal tastes.
> 
> 
> ... i'm done... let the games begin... i'm sure there are some seriously opposing views on this.:lol2:


*stands up and claps* nuff said


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

this is going to sound weird but i dont agree with hybrids, each half of a hybrid fish is lovely then you put them together and there yuck!! i hate parrot chiclids yuck. but sying that i DO have a tiger shovelnose x redtail and he's lovely see i said it would sound weird lol


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

you hate BLOOD PARROTS. Actual parrot cichlids (hoplarchus pssiticus) are awesome fish. I've got 6 stunners and I wouldn't trade them for any other fish in the world (except maybe a 5foot red tail cat)


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

mike515 said:


> you hate BLOOD PARROTS. Actual parrot cichlids (hoplarchus pssiticus) are awesome fish. I've got 6 stunners and I wouldn't trade them for any other fish in the world (except maybe a 5foot red tail cat)


dont like the pure or the hybrids but thats just me, i love red tails, my hybrid is gorgeous re rehomed our red tail as we are moving in the near the future, once moved and the pond is built we will get anothr.


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