# corvids anyone?



## *mogwai*

i'm after some info for an absolute beginner please.
i've kept birds most of my life & have 4 parrots (all indoors), hubby has been interested in corvids for years but it's never been something we've seriously considered before. now things have changed at home so we have more time on our hands & think it's something we could start researching. but we are starting from knowing next to nothing other than my experience with parrots.


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## corvid2e1

Parrot experience is a good start, it gives you an idea of the brain you will be dealing with and the stimulation and company needed, but corvids still differ quite a bit from parrots in most other ways. They are far more active, most species will not sit still for long, and when you get the the smaller species such as Magpies and Jays they quite literaly bounce off the walls! For this reason, even the largest parrot cages and similar are not suitible for them, they need much more space. They are much messier than parrots, with the droppings being wetter and more frequent owing to the different diet. They are not as touchy-feely as parrots either, which is often disapointing to people keeping them after experiencing parrots. All my hand reared ones have tolorated the ocasional stroke down the chest or scratch on the neck, but it is a rare privalige that they realy have to be in the right mood for.


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## Ron Magpie

corvid2e1 said:


> Parrot experience is a good start, it gives you an idea of the brain you will be dealing with and the stimulation and company needed, but corvids still differ quite a bit from parrots in most other ways. They are far more active, most species will not sit still for long, and when you get the the smaller species such as Magpies and Jays they quite literaly bounce off the walls! For this reason, even the largest parrot cages and similar are not suitible for them, they need much more space. They are much messier than parrots, with the droppings being wetter and more frequent owing to the different diet. They are not as touchy-feely as parrots either, which is often disapointing to people keeping them after experiencing parrots. All my hand reared ones have tolorated the ocasional stroke down the chest or scratch on the neck, but it is a rare privalige that they realy have to be in the right mood for.


That's really interesting- I might have ended up with corvids, except many years ago my parents decided parrots were less trouble (!) lol. We've recently installed Rilla the Tinmeh African grey in his new 'palace' - which he loves and is using every inch of the new climbing space- completely by chance I mentioned to the boyf that the same cage, although perfect for him, would be utterly unsuitable for any kind of crow, as there would not be enough space to fly or even hop far. Would you recommend aviaries with plenty of ground area for corvids?


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## *mogwai*

we were presuming an aviary would be needed, hadnt even considered having a house corvid. it's iteresting that they only really tolerate the odd stroke on the chest. i didn't know how tame they'd get & how much of a 'companion bird' they'd be.


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## slugsiss32

My Raven tolerates the odd stroke, it's because he is a wild animal although hand reared...they'll always be wild. So he is trained and friendly, not afraid of people but not cuddly like a parrot  They need a lot of respect, they're not domesticated like a parrot would act (I have a parrot and they're soooo different! My Raven is more intelligent, so much fun and completely crazy (suits me well), but the Parrot is so very much more handleable and loving all the time, Raven is only loving when he feels like it .

Housing...Definitely aviary, when I got my Raven he was about 5 weeks old and he slept in a crate, ate off a spoon, played catch and tug o war with my blankets...etc etc...soon he grew and became brighter and began purposely doing thing that he knew I would react to lol (not in a bad way of course, just an angry way! ) So I built him an aviary with plenty to do and he has never been happier!! 

I also believe its very important to treat wild animals as wild animals...they don't want to live in a house, they need their own space, they need the sunlight, wind, rain etc for their feathers and they need to be able to act like they would in the wild, being able to forage in bark or soil etc, hide their food in secret spots, play with toys and fly around. (I believe). So outdoor aviary is always best! 

What kind of Corvid were you wanting? I saw a thread for someone looking for a 'Magpie, Crow or Raven - don't mind which' the other day...think its on avian classifieds, hate to offend but those species couldn't be more different!  Saying you want a Magpie or a Raven is silly, research is needed because although both bright birds their size couldn't be more different! If you get me 

Hope that helped


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## slugsiss32

Some pics for you to see. First is his aviary, second is me holding him upside down, thirds is him trying to get my shoelaces, then there is his beautiful feathers, the next one is when his pond was emptied for a clean and he had no water for an hour or so, we thought it'd be interesting to give him a milk carton, he drank from it!!, and the last is just a pretty cute one xP


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## corvid2e1

slugsiss32 said:


> My Raven tolerates the odd stroke, it's because he is a wild animal although hand reared...they'll always be wild. So he is trained and friendly, not afraid of people but not cuddly like a parrot  They need a lot of respect, they're not domesticated like a parrot would act (I have a parrot and they're soooo different! My Raven is more intelligent, so much fun and completely crazy (suits me well), but the Parrot is so very much more handleable and loving all the time, Raven is only loving when he feels like it .
> 
> Housing...Definitely aviary, when I got my Raven he was about 5 weeks old and he slept in a crate, ate off a spoon, played catch and tug o war with my blankets...etc etc...soon he grew and became brighter and began purposely doing thing that he knew I would react to lol (not in a bad way of course, just an angry way! ) So I built him an aviary with plenty to do and he has never been happier!!
> 
> I also believe its very important to treat wild animals as wild animals...they don't want to live in a house, they need their own space, they need the sunlight, wind, rain etc for their feathers and they need to be able to act like they would in the wild, being able to forage in bark or soil etc, hide their food in secret spots, play with toys and fly around. (I believe). So outdoor aviary is always best!
> 
> What kind of Corvid were you wanting? I saw a thread for someone looking for a 'Magpie, Crow or Raven - don't mind which' the other day...think its on avian classifieds, hate to offend but those species couldn't be more different!  Saying you want a Magpie or a Raven is silly, research is needed because although both bright birds their size couldn't be more different! If you get me
> 
> Hope that helped


Couldn't agree with that more. Aviary is definetly necicary, at least for part of the time, regardles of species. I have only ever had one who lives indoors most of the time. She is a Rook, and is paranoied about other birds, and hates being left in an aviary. she lives in the house free range and happily destroys it, or travels with us if we are out, but she is a pretty unique case. Generaly they love the weather, wind and snow create so many new games that can't posably be recreated indoors, so they should never be denied that. I think the ideal housing should be a combination of everything if practical. My Magpie has an aviary where she spends some of her time. She also flies free for a large part of each day, and during that time the door of the house is left open so she can come and go as she likes. That is not practical for everyone. it takes careful training and issolation. an imprinted corvid wandering off to visit the houses down the road almost always ends badly, but if you are lucky enough to live somewhere you can do it, there is nothing better. 

Which species you are considering makes a huge difference, not only in size but also in attitude and therfore, how they are kept. Some species are especialy active, some tend to be more nervous, others very bold to the point of aggressive. Some have random quirks for no apparent reason, for example, Carrion Crows will disimbowl chicks/mice etc and leave shreaded bits in their water bowl, leaving a lovely mess every day. no other species I have kept so far ever seem to do this. (does your Raven do it? I have not kept that species yet)

The "doing things to provoke a reaction" behaviour is well worth mentioning, as it is a huge part of their life, and the sorce of the myth about corvids stealing shiny objects. This is a great game to them, and can become a problem if you are not aware of it, and very careful about how you react, especialy if you have a free flying bird. Corvids are extremely good at reading your body language, and very quickly work out which objects in your life are valuable and therfore likely to provoke the best responce if stolen! If you give them an item, it is almost worthless, but if they can steal it from you it becomes the most important thing in the world. They will hang around, drop it and pick it up again, get close and present it to you, the aim being geting you to chase them to try to retrive it. you give in and chase you wont get it back. The shiny things myth is only recorded in pet birds, and the items are not stored in the nest, they are cached in the same way as food. The birds have no intrest at all in whether or not the item is shiny, only its value to you. traditionly, valuable items have been coins, jewlery etc and a lack of understanding of bird behaviour led to the wrong conclusion about what attracts them. now, very different items may attract their attention. My Rook's favorets are mobile phones, the TV remote and bank cards. My Magpie's are lighters and tobaco. (We don't smoke but some friends do, and we have given up trying to explain the behaviour and how to react, so now just sit back and watch the chase, which inevitably ends with her happily sitting on the roof shreading a tobaco pouch and spreading the contents as far as posable!)


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## *mogwai*

thank you everyone this is very interesting.
as for which species, not even got that far. was looking to research corvids in general then each species to see which one would suit. 
their behaviour seems fascinating. mouse intestines dont bother me, but i'm sure the nolvelty of have to fish them out of a water bowl every day would soon wear off. 

how would you go about getting a corvid? are there breeders & i'm presuming some paperwork would be needed to show you'd not captured it from the wild.


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## slugsiss32

Yeah I work with wild corvids, the crows and larger dip their food in water, but you get used to it to be honest dead animals don't phase me at all, I have to chop enough of them up at the wildlife centre!

I got mine from a private sale, he was CB though and has the ring and papers to prove, so I don't know any breeders. There is a Raven breeder called Martin Harris who provides the Tower with their Ravens. Raven Chicks (Captive bred) for sale in Avon, South West :: Birdtrader

Ravens are hard work though so as a newbie you might be thinking of a smaller Corvid.

There will be others around, you just gotta look far and wide! All CB birds should have a closed ring.


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## *mogwai*

closed rung, like parrots then. don't know why i never thought of that. feel a bit dim now lol.


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## hawktrainer

Any one jo whear i can get any info on step buy step/impringing crows as i look all over and nothing as i ham thinking of gwting a crow i had and teaned hawks and parrets most my life i live in the midle of no whear so was planing on him/her spending most the day out tree flying the fealds round my farm if this is posible as i have done it with jestrals in the past but oveadly thats difrent probly in menny ways any help/info on this be murch apreseated


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## OniExpress

Years ago I had an interesting/good relationship with some crows that lived somewhere near my house. I'd see them frequently as a kid, so I'd bring them food now and again. It got to the point that I'd find them tailing me around town.

I'd love to get a raven someday, but breeders here seem to be few and far between.


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## Stickytoes

Just thought I'd join in this thread 

I have a magpie (eurasian), and I was wondering if anyone had any enrichment ideas? We're putting toys and 'puzzles' on a weekly rotation for him, but he figures things out so fast I'm worried he's going to get bored.
At the moment we're trying a puzzle made out of a plastic bottle, with the bottom cut off, and sticks going through it. The food is inside and he has to pull out the sticks so that the food falls out (like the game kerplunk or whatever it was called). He's already got the hang of it...

Does anyone else have a good game or puzzle for their birds?


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## corvid2e1

They are so smart, it can be difficult keeping up with new ideas. Cardboard boxes filled with shredded paper and assorted food items are a good standby. not difficult to figure out but takes a bit of effort to get into so keeps them occupied for a while. Try tying food on the end of a string hanging down inside a clear pipe. We have sand pits for all ours where food can be buried, either dug straight into the ground in aviaries or in tubs (large window boxes work pretty well, if only half filled is plenty deep enough but they don't spread too much around when digging.) As well as giving natural enrichment this can help to keep the beak in good shape, which can be prone to becoming overgrown, especially if kept indoors. in aviaries we have a variety of loose substrate on the ground and food is scattered instead of offered in a bowl to encourage foraging. We also have holes drilled into logs etc where food can be hidden. Many of the parrot toys designed to encourage foraging can work very well for corvids if you take into account the different behavior. (e.g. they don't chew or climb like parrots, which many toys are designed around) but these can be expensive for something that is going to be figured out pretty quickly. Is still worth looking at, as many use ideas which can easily be home made for far cheaper. Training can be very good enrichment if you have the time to work with your bird on a regular basis, and often useful at the same time. Exactly what you train them to do doesn't really mater, but the act of doing it gives them plenty to think about. With a bit of work they can be taught quite complex tasks, although as corvids go, magpies don't necessarily have the longest attention span!


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## DAZWIDD

Great thread, I worked in a bird sanctuary when I was younger and we had most of the UK corvids (can only think of choughs that we didn't have), any that we couldn't release were given good size aviaries, some even learned to talk or mimic other birds, we had a pair of Ravens, the female kept out of the way when you went in but the male would attack, we would take a broom in, he would attack that instead and leave you alone. Of the ones that were released, quite a few would come back at feeding time! Certainly very clever birds.


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## monstervivs

corvid2e1 said:


> Parrot experience is a good start, it gives you an idea of the brain you will be dealing with and the stimulation and company needed, but corvids still differ quite a bit from parrots in most other ways. They are far more active, most species will not sit still for long, and when you get the the smaller species such as Magpies and Jays they quite literaly bounce off the walls! For this reason, even the largest parrot cages and similar are not suitible for them, they need much more space. They are much messier than parrots, with the droppings being wetter and more frequent owing to the different diet. They are not as touchy-feely as parrots either, which is often disapointing to people keeping them after experiencing parrots. All my hand reared ones have tolorated the ocasional stroke down the chest or scratch on the neck, but it is a rare privalige that they realy have to be in the right mood for.


Exactly what he said


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## monstervivs

corvid2e1 said:


> They are so smart, it can be difficult keeping up with new ideas. Cardboard boxes filled with shredded paper and assorted food items are a good standby. not difficult to figure out but takes a bit of effort to get into so keeps them occupied for a while. Try tying food on the end of a string hanging down inside a clear pipe. We have sand pits for all ours where food can be buried, either dug straight into the ground in aviaries or in tubs (large window boxes work pretty well, if only half filled is plenty deep enough but they don't spread too much around when digging.) As well as giving natural enrichment this can help to keep the beak in good shape, which can be prone to becoming overgrown, especially if kept indoors. in aviaries we have a variety of loose substrate on the ground and food is scattered instead of offered in a bowl to encourage foraging. We also have holes drilled into logs etc where food can be hidden. Many of the parrot toys designed to encourage foraging can work very well for corvids if you take into account the different behavior. (e.g. they don't chew or climb like parrots, which many toys are designed around) but these can be expensive for something that is going to be figured out pretty quickly. Is still worth looking at, as many use ideas which can easily be home made for far cheaper. Training can be very good enrichment if you have the time to work with your bird on a regular basis, and often useful at the same time. Exactly what you train them to do doesn't really mater, but the act of doing it gives them plenty to think about. With a bit of work they can be taught quite complex tasks, although as corvids go, magpies don't necessarily have the longest attention span!


Like your style bud. The cogs are always turning with these guys, never long before it's them training you (without you even realizing it


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## Stickytoes

corvid2e1 said:


> They are so smart, it can be difficult keeping up with new ideas. Cardboard boxes filled with shredded paper and assorted food items are a good standby. not difficult to figure out but takes a bit of effort to get into so keeps them occupied for a while. Try tying food on the end of a string hanging down inside a clear pipe. We have sand pits for all ours where food can be buried, either dug straight into the ground in aviaries or in tubs (large window boxes work pretty well, if only half filled is plenty deep enough but they don't spread too much around when digging.) As well as giving natural enrichment this can help to keep the beak in good shape, which can be prone to becoming overgrown, especially if kept indoors. in aviaries we have a variety of loose substrate on the ground and food is scattered instead of offered in a bowl to encourage foraging. We also have holes drilled into logs etc where food can be hidden. Many of the parrot toys designed to encourage foraging can work very well for corvids if you take into account the different behavior. (e.g. they don't chew or climb like parrots, which many toys are designed around) but these can be expensive for something that is going to be figured out pretty quickly. Is still worth looking at, as many use ideas which can easily be home made for far cheaper. Training can be very good enrichment if you have the time to work with your bird on a regular basis, and often useful at the same time. Exactly what you train them to do doesn't really mater, but the act of doing it gives them plenty to think about. With a bit of work they can be taught quite complex tasks, although as corvids go, magpies don't necessarily have the longest attention span!


Hmm, I hadn't thought about using a tub of sand; I'll definitely put those in his aviary.
We bring him inside every evening to play with him and do a bit of training (and have a shower haha), and he sleeps in our bedroom. At the moment we're just teaching him to fly to our arm, so hopefully we can put jesses on him and take him outside to fly.. But it's proving difficult to make a pair of anklets that are small enough to fit round his skinny legs!
It's also difficult to find a toy that HE likes; he only likes things if we play with them first haha.... Toilet rolls and my boyfriends tobacco pouch is favourite at the moment.


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## vukic

What would.be the.best corvid to start with???

Tiger

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## Zerox Z21

I'd have thought pretty much all of the available corvids are all fairly similar in terms of intelligence and thus the difficulty of required care. A smaller species would be cheaper to upkeep/possibly help in size of any enclosure or aviary you may need?
Different corvids have different social behaviours in the wild though. Ravens pair for life, jackdaws also but they tend to form colonies...actually, I think all corvids do, or at least the UK species. Not certain how likely that is to affect their socialisation with you as an owner. I'd guess that the colony living species are more tolerant though?

But I haven't owned a crow for a long time, and the one I did only for a year or so. So really I'm just making an educated guess, better off with some proper research or an actual owner to give advice.


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## corvid2e1

monstervivs said:


> Like your style bud. The cogs are always turning with these guys, never long before it's them training you (without you even realizing it


Absolutely! My magpie lives at my work at the moment and she has the students trained quite nicely! She started to land on them whenever they leave an aviary with food trays, especially anything that has mealworms, and refuse to get off until they give her a couple. she now systematically waits at each aviary in turn that contains insectivores when they are doing the cleaning and automatically gets given some from each aviary.



Stickytoes said:


> Hmm, I hadn't thought about using a tub of sand; I'll definitely put those in his aviary.
> We bring him inside every evening to play with him and do a bit of training (and have a shower haha), and he sleeps in our bedroom. At the moment we're just teaching him to fly to our arm, so hopefully we can put jesses on him and take him outside to fly.. But it's proving difficult to make a pair of anklets that are small enough to fit round his skinny legs!
> It's also difficult to find a toy that HE likes; he only likes things if we play with them first haha.... Toilet rolls and my boyfriends tobacco pouch is favourite at the moment.


All mine wear jesses. they are very useful for teaching exactly when they have to stay on the hand, and can be used with a line if you are taking them out anywhere, however they cannot be tethered by them as you would raptors. they are far too active and simply do not stand for it. Oh yes! that is a trait of all corvids, and the origin of the myth that they steal shiny things. It is a game, to work out which item is the most valuable to you, and as such, which will give the best reaction if stolen. the aim is to get you to chase them to get it back, which inevitably will fail. historically, those valuable items have been such things as jewelry, coins, keys etc, which is where the idea came from that they are attracted to shiny objects, just a misinterpretation of the behavior of pets birds.



vukic said:


> What would.be the.best corvid to start with???
> 
> Tiger
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


I do not think there is such thing as a starter species as they are not the sort of animal you start off with an easy one and build up a collection of more complicated species as you might with reptiles or some other birds such as finches etc. They are an animal that takes up a huge amount of time and is far more of a family member than part of a collection. it is comparable to saying, "what is a good starter breed of dog?" It is far better to pick a species that suits what you are looking for and one you happen to like. I wouldn't say any species is easier or more difficult to care for than any other, they are just different. Jays are probably the most popular captive bred species, probably due to the colours, and as such are relatively easy to find through breeders. They do not necessarily make the best pets though as they are shy and hyper active, and while they may make good aviary subjects that will readily take food from your hand etc, they tend to be difficult to actually handle. Jackdaws are sometimes available and generally far more interactive and friendly. they are also calmer as, despite the size, they are "true" corvids (crow, rook, raven family), as appose to magpies and jays which are families by themselves and tend to be more hyper. Jackdaws, especially adult male imprints, are known for sometimes becoming aggressive towards everyone but their "mate" though, so worth bearing in mind. Magpies are rarely available captive bred but basically combine the traits of of Jackdaws and Jays. They are hyper, but still bold enough to be hand tame. They can also be aggressive. Rooks and Carrion Crows have many good traits, although are not generally available captive bred. Ravens are also available captive bred. I have never kept this species so cannot accurately comment on personality, however they are very large birds, combined with the active nature of corvids anyway, they need a great deal of space. Exotic species such as Azure Winged Magpies and African Pied Crows are also occasionally available. Again, having never kept these species, I cannot comment.


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## vukic

corvid2e1 said:


> Absolutely! My magpie lives at my work at the moment and she has the students trained quite nicely! She started to land on them whenever they leave an aviary with food trays, especially anything that has mealworms, and refuse to get off until they give her a couple. she now systematically waits at each aviary in turn that contains insectivores when they are doing the cleaning and automatically gets given some from each aviary.
> 
> 
> 
> All mine wear jesses. they are very useful for teaching exactly when they have to stay on the hand, and can be used with a line if you are taking them out anywhere, however they cannot be tethered by them as you would raptors. they are far too active and simply do not stand for it. Oh yes! that is a trait of all corvids, and the origin of the myth that they steal shiny things. It is a game, to work out which item is the most valuable to you, and as such, which will give the best reaction if stolen. the aim is to get you to chase them to get it back, which inevitably will fail. historically, those valuable items have been such things as jewelry, coins, keys etc, which is where the idea came from that they are attracted to shiny objects, just a misinterpretation of the behavior of pets birds.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not think there is such thing as a starter species as they are not the sort of animal you start off with an easy one and build up a collection of more complicated species as you might with reptiles or some other birds such as finches etc. They are an animal that takes up a huge amount of time and is far more of a family member than part of a collection. it is comparable to saying, "what is a good starter breed of dog?" It is far better to pick a species that suits what you are looking for and one you happen to like. I wouldn't say any species is easier or more difficult to care for than any other, they are just different. Jays are probably the most popular captive bred species, probably due to the colours, and as such are relatively easy to find through breeders. They do not necessarily make the best pets though as they are shy and hyper active, and while they may make good aviary subjects that will readily take food from your hand etc, they tend to be difficult to actually handle. Jackdaws are sometimes available and generally far more interactive and friendly. they are also calmer as, despite the size, they are "true" corvids (crow, rook, raven family), as appose to magpies and jays which are families by themselves and tend to be more hyper. Jackdaws, especially adult male imprints, are known for sometimes becoming aggressive towards everyone but their "mate" though, so worth bearing in mind. Magpies are rarely available captive bred but basically combine the traits of of Jackdaws and Jays. They are hyper, but still bold enough to be hand tame. They can also be aggressive. Rooks and Carrion Crows have many good traits, although are not generally available captive bred. Ravens are also available captive bred. I have never kept this species so cannot accurately comment on personality, however they are very large birds, combined with the active nature of corvids anyway, they need a great deal of space. Exotic species such as Azure Winged Magpies and African Pied Crows are also occasionally available. Again, having never kept these species, I cannot comment.


Thank you for your advice... I didn't know if there as easier bird's and more difficult... For the ones that aren't easily available captive bred.. how are they obtained?? Do people wait or go out and. trap/catch them in the wild?? 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Zerox Z21

The one I used to have was a rescued fledgling, hadn't moved from one spot for several days and appeared injured, so we took matters into our own hands at that point.
If you're really desiring such an animal as a pet, you should be prepared to put the work into hunting down a breeder, or anyone selling a bird. There are a number of places you might consider to put up ads, such as the wanted forum here, a bird specific forum, online uk bird trading sites, or bird/aviary based magazines and such. If you can't put the work into finding the bird, are you prepared to put the work into caring for it? Though yes, it's a colossal ***; I've looked on a preliminary basis as I'm in no true position myself, and found very little. Ask where everyone who has birds on here got theirs?

Don't know if anyone has trapped or caught birds, but I think that may be illegal and many people on here would frown upon it...a wild caught bird will be much harder (if not impossible) to make as tame and friendly as a captive bred one anyway, and either way you're better off starting with a much younger bird, and that is what breeders will be selling! Crows are so smart they're notoriously difficult to trap anyway...remember an anecdote from my university where someone wanted to trap ravens for research. After the first capture, they realised what the baited traps were and avoided them. The researchers actually had to reduce the amount of bait to try and make the fact it was a trap less obvious. Only with crows would such a counter-intuitive tactic be necessary 

The crow we did have, for a short period, was a carrion crow. Lovely bird, very smart, not particularly hyperactive despite his age so possibly a good choice here. They are also the most generalised of our crow species so I imagine are somewhat more adaptable than many other species available, and as such _possibly_ easier to deal with? Though by no means a simple pet, as must be reiterated.
I heard that fledglings or young birds are more enticed by 'shiny objects', and though the theory above sounds reasonable, or crow was left home alone once with a pot full of coppers. Came home, and they were all over the room. In shoes, lines of them pushed under the rims of the carpet, and so on. Rather amusing, but we weren't there at all, so trying to figure out our response seems a doubtful explanation for that. Though said coppers were rather dirty and hardly shiny anyway, so maybe he was just having some fun!


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## corvid2e1

Most pet corvids tend to be rescued wild birds that the owner has just found by chance, as with Zerox Z21. To actually track down a bird deliberately can be much more difficult, as breeders are few and far between. They are out there though, so putting some work into finding them can certainly pay off. one option may even be importing from Europe, as they are far more widely bred there. Carrion Crows are available as well as other species, even in colour mutations. Another option may be to get in touch with any local wildlife rehab centres. These all have different policies, some do not keep anything that cannot be released. the ones that do may not re-home, but with a bit of searching you may be able to find one that is willing to let you take on a bird that cannot be released. Trapping wild birds is not advised, obviously partly due to the moral and legal issues with that, but also as these wild birds do not calm down to make good captives, attempting it is simply a traumatic waste of time for both the bird and the potential owner. 

Carrion Crows, along with Rooks, being "true" corvids are far calmer that the smaller species, though are still far more active that birds of prey or parrots to which they are so often compared. They also do not seem so prone to the aggression known in Magpies and Jackdaws, although they, like all, will still often pick one person as their "mate" and refuse to respond to anyone else. While they are not hyper, they are less agile and more clumsy than the smaller species, so something to consider if intending to keep the bird indoors. Any small object in the way of a potential perch, especially when the bird is spooked by something, is likely to be wiped out. (that being said, any small, movable objects in the room where the bird is kept are likely to have been already destroyed or moved and cached somewhere anyway!) All corvids will pick up, play with and hide any small object they can, and can also be quite destructive, so the house/room must be well bird-proofed if it to be kept inside, even for part of the time. Corvids have a tendency to exhibit random phobias. sticks (including brooms, vacuum cleaners etc.) and large objects being moved is normal, unfamiliar objects being brought in, or even familiar ones being rearranged. Familiar people appearing wearing bright or unusual clothes (e.g. hats) can spook some. This behavior is most marked in Rooks, which are quite nervous birds by nature anyway, however they are also one of the most gentle and most intelligent. They can (not always) also be more tolerant of large families and accepting of more people due to their social structure in the wild.


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## slugsiss32

What do we all feed our Corvids? 

Theres so much variation on what we should and shouldn't feed them as they're predominantly scavengers I believe, so even in the wild they'd eat what they came across. 

Rav gets chicks, apples, berries, nuts, dog food, carrots, mince, eggs, steaks, lamb, chicken, mice, rats, rabbits, dog treats, anything I'm eating as a treat lol...the latter rarer and when available. Mostly gets chicks.


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## corvid2e1

Mine get Chicks, occasionally mice, whatever carcass I may have butchered e.g. Rabbit, Squirrel, Pheasant, Partridge, Duck, Deer, Fox, Chicken etc. (I don't give Pigeon due to the risk of Canker) Sometimes fish. They get, Chicken, Duck and Pigeon eggs, fresh fruit such as apples, oranges, grapes, melon etc. They get insects, usually in the form of Waxworms (these are especially good for training), mealworms and morio worms. Have given fruit beetle grubs when the local shop has them available. Will occasionally give crickets as they are great enrichment to chase down but not all that practical in aviaries. They also always have a supply of dry food, which is dry Ferret and cat biscuits and a low sunflower Parrot mix. And yes, they will occasionally get scraps of our food when they can swipe it, or when someone gives them some when they think I am not looking!

Never tried carrots, never thought of it. Does he like them?


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## *mogwai*

i can't believe my thread is still going, it's been so informative. i didn't realise they'd need such a varied diet. and your post about games & puzzles has given me some idea for things to do with my parrots.


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## Stickytoes

Im having a bit of trouble with our magpie, we managed to fit anklets onto him, but he was so pissed off about it that he wouldn't come near us for three days. He's back to normal now, but won't let us touch them at all. If he even suspects that we're going to touch him lower than his head he flies away. 
Any ideas on how to sort this out? I want to be able to take him out on a line when we go for walks so he isn't stuck in his aviary all the time.


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## slugsiss32

Rav pecked at his anklets for a while but hes had them on for maybe 3 years now and they don't bother him at all, but if I was to put a harness on him or something he would try and peck it off, just a matter of giving him time to adjust.

Anyone have a Jackdaw? Interested in learning about them in captivity as I might be taking one on...what they are like etc, similar diet to my Raven I assume, just would have to be cut up because I doubt they have the same muscle capacity! 

I like this thread  Keep chatting guys its good to talk about Corvids...so hard to find much information on them so the more we can share the better. Even about wild Corvids that people may find on their walks...if we can get them back to the wild by informing people though maybe this thread thats even better


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## corvid2e1

I do not personally have Jackdaws at the moment, but have had plenty pass through, both rehabs and imprints, and have both at work. Also have a friend who has had one of the imprints we passed on to her for the last 3 years. Like all corvids they are very good flying free when young, which tempts many people to keep them this way, but especially prone to wandering once mature if kept completely at liberty, probably due to their wild behavior as they roam for miles in flocks like Rooks rather than having a set territory like the others. Like any of them though, careful training can overcome this, so they can still be allowed some freedom. Despite being the size of a Magpie or a Jay they tend to be as calm and steady as the larger species (probably owing to still being Corvus). Their intelligence actually does not seem to quite hold up to their family ties though. Obviously being corvids they are still highly intelligent compared with other families, but are not quite up to the level of Crows, Rooks and Ravens. I would probably put them between Magpies and Jays. Like Magpies though they can also be spiteful, imprinted males being especially aggressive towards everyone except their "mate". The diet is much more insect and grain based than the Raven. In the wild even carrion is rarely touched, although they will learn to accept meat quite readily in captivity, it should not be the basis of their diet. One quirk of their personality, owing to them being hole nesters, is they are unusually happy in tight spaces, quite willingly entering boxes/cupboards etc while the others will generally avoid being enclosed at all costs.


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## corvid2e1

Stickytoes said:


> Im having a bit of trouble with our magpie, we managed to fit anklets onto him, but he was so pissed off about it that he wouldn't come near us for three days. He's back to normal now, but won't let us touch them at all. If he even suspects that we're going to touch him lower than his head he flies away.
> Any ideas on how to sort this out? I want to be able to take him out on a line when we go for walks so he isn't stuck in his aviary all the time.


As said, he should settle with time. If I want a bird to wear jesses I will usually fit them as early as possible. Not to tether them (corvids are too active to tether anyway), or even attach a line for walks straight away, but just to get them used to having something on their legs dragging behind. This adjustment is much easier when they are very young, preferable when they are branching, before they are even fully fledged. Older birds find it more difficult to adjust, but should still get there. Now you have got them on him, just take it very slow. completely ignore them for as long as it takes, just treat him normally as if he does not have them on. given a bit of time he will come back to letting you touch him as normal. If they are just anklets, without jesses attached, you will have to repeat this step once you get them on too. These will have to be flying jess style, firmly attached so that he can't just pull them out, as he again needs to just wear them until they don't bother him any more, and is happy with you handling him as normal. Try walking around with him on your hand inside, free, but encourage him to stay put for as long as possible by offering treats (this is where the waxworms are great!) once he has got that down, try just gently holding the jesses while you walk, with as much slack as you can, just for a few seconds at first, still giving treats until he is happy with that. At first if he bates off as soon as you touch them I would just let him go and try again when he has settled. holding him down or letting him hang will just reinforce that negative association. If he just flies off nothing bad has happened and he will be less spooked next time. eventually, once he is happy with them being held, you can attach a line so that if he bates, he can still get away, but not far. give him enough line so that he can reach the ground or a perch and does not hang as this will spook him. once he is happy with this you can start to hang on when he bates, giving treats and only releasing him once he is calm again.

The whole process could potentially take a long time, depending on the bird. weeks, maybe even months, but don't rush it. let him do it completely at his pace. You have a very different bond with a corvid than you do with a raptor, and they have to be trained quite differently. If you push him too much, you will loose his trust, and that may not be easy to regain.


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## slugsiss32

Rav had his anklets on at about 10 weeks old. I originally intended to fly him but it never worked out (mainly because of the area I am in, too built up and every time I took him out the crows came down swooping over my head trying to attack him, I suppose they felt threatened. I left them on him though because if he needs to visit the vets I can have him fly to me easily enough and then I have a good hold of him for the vet. So personally with the bigger Corvids I think its a good idea.


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## slugsiss32

Also what do you think about fitting anklets to a Jackdaw? Would they be to heavy? Or maybe an aviator harness... If I wanted to let him out and have him come back, I'd have to start using a long line wouldn't I...Would it matter if I ever did loose him though, say he turned wild and flew away would he revert or would he be picked on by other corvids as a weaker 'not a member of the gang' Jackdaw? I've always been told if I lost the Raven he'd revert but I don't think he would to be honest, I think he'd hassle people to play in the town and it would be completeeeeee mayhem!!! Hahaha  Least I'd get him back easily enough


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## corvid2e1

slugsiss32 said:


> Also what do you think about fitting anklets to a Jackdaw? Would they be to heavy? Or maybe an aviator harness... If I wanted to let him out and have him come back, I'd have to start using a long line wouldn't I...Would it matter if I ever did loose him though, say he turned wild and flew away would he revert or would he be picked on by other corvids as a weaker 'not a member of the gang' Jackdaw? I've always been told if I lost the Raven he'd revert but I don't think he would to be honest, I think he'd hassle people to play in the town and it would be completeeeeee mayhem!!! Hahaha  Least I'd get him back easily enough


I have used anklets on Jackdaws. My Magpies have also always worn them without any problems. I make all my own though, and use fairly light leather for them. (does mean they has to be periodically replaced though as they eventually pull them apart!) Have never used a harness. I would guess it would take a bit of getting used to with corvids not being so happy being poked around as much as parrots, but once that was over with I don't see why it wouldn't work. I have never trained any of mine on creance, but I have always trained them to free fly early while the baby instinct still keeps them close by. If your jackdaw is coming to you older having never been flown free then yes, I would be starting him on creance first. No, I highly doubt he would revert. True imprinting is permanent, and while some can eventually de-humanise to an extent if left alone long enough, that takes a long time, and is never complete. Many imprinted corvids get lost every season when people raise them as pets and keep them at liberty. The few lucky ones are recognized for what they are and sent to rescue centers. most are seen as a "vicious wild bird that keeps trying to attack people" and are hit, shot or otherwise injured or killed when they inevitably approach people who don't know them. As for being accepted by other corvids, I have seen it go either way and seems to depend on a lot of factors, so is very difficult to predict the outcome.


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## slugsiss32

He is coming to me. Next week. Think I can put a 4 and a half month old jackdaw in an aviary outside or should I wait a bit? Thinking if I do it now, then he can become adjusted before the cold, I think I will, and then put him in the shed at night, or inside. 

I'll upload some pics next week.


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## snakehuts

Interesting thread regarding corvids, this year we have bred 6 Ravens one of which ive retained the rest going to new homes.

They are certainly not a bird to take on lightly, they are large intelligent birds who need stimulation and attention, throughout their long lives.

I'm very particular where my birds go


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