# Rat breeding



## genghis55 (Jul 13, 2009)

Due to my royal collection growing im going to start breeding my own rats, i just had a few questions before i start, firstly what type of rats should i breed fancy rats, blue rats, dumbo rats or something else and secondly can i keep the females in rubs while they are raising the young?

thanks


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

as for type of rats, all domestic rats come from the same original species so will all taste the same for the snake. just get the cheapest type of rats, or the ones you like most, or least if your worried about getting too attatched.

not sure about keeping them in rubs though?


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## moodyblue1969 (Jul 6, 2009)

this was suggested to me as i was having condensation problems. you may find it helpful : victory:www.woodlandmousery.com just obviously for rats you use bigger rubs . just click on the step by step guide to making them


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Blue and Dumbo are varieties of fancy rat, all of which are variations of domestic rat.

I personally prefer top-ears to dumbos, but that's personal preference, and I don't think the snakes have ever noticed ear position when eating.

RUBs for adult female rats raising litters? Yes, if you use BIG ones and you've cut most of the lid out and replaced it with wire mesh AND most of one side out, ditto wire mesh.


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## genghis55 (Jul 13, 2009)

thanks for the advise and i think i will use the rub with wire mesh option.

and im planning on using a gas chamber for killing them but i was wondering where is the best place to buy the c02 cylinders?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I get mine from a welding supply shop - CO2, not Argon or CO2/Argon mix.


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

I have hooded rats some in a fishtank with a mesh hood on the top and some in rubs i just drill alot of holes in the lid and upper sides of the rub seems to work spot on saves time as well


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Can you keep rats in rubs full time?

Also what about mesh on the sides as-well as the top?


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

i have kept some of mine in a rub full time 3 months so far just make sure its big enough they all seem happy enough i saw on utube a rat factory and they all kept them in 100s of racks a bit crowded i thought cant remeber the link


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't have enough reps to do this really.

Although I could do it for the few I have I suppose, to ensure quality?

Is the mesh on top really enough ventilation?
I imagine rodents smell?

Also if I did they would be treated as pets : victory:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

genghis55 said:


> Due to my royal collection growing im going to start breeding my own rats, i just had a few questions before i start, firstly what type of rats should i breed fancy rats, blue rats, dumbo rats or something else and secondly can i keep the females in rubs while they are raising the young?
> 
> thanks


Blue, Dumbo, etc is the same as a Fancy Rat. 
As said, RUBs are fine for nursing females if you use the 145ltrs and you mod them properly. Whilst they aren't nursing (the young should only be with the lactating mother for 4-4.5 weeks max), they should be in proper cages with plenty of ventilation or bigger tubs (at least 24"x16"x12" for a 1.3 group, or 1.4 if the Rats are small) whilst they are mating, resting etc. Growing on kits can also be kept in tubs providing they are modded properly and the right size. 



trw said:


> as for type of rats, all domestic rats come from the same original species so will all taste the same for the snake. *just get the cheapest type of rats,* or the ones you like most, or least if your worried about getting too attatched.


Poor advice. If you want to be feeding good quality food and also make breeding worthwhile, seek out well bred healthy Rats, preferably from show lines, as show Rats are bigger and usually better bred. 



bobby said:


> Also what about mesh on the sides as-well as the top?


Mesh on the sides and tops are the only way to go with Rats! Doesn't take a lot of time (should only take 10 minutes or less per big tub) and the mesh is cheap as chips.



DragonFish66 said:


> i have kept some of mine in a rub full time 3 months so far just make sure its big enough they all seem happy enough i saw on utube a rat factory and they all kept them in 100s of racks a bit crowded i thought cant remeber the link


Ralph Davis? He has one of the best Rat factories I've ever seen, asise from the breeding/mating tubs, they have the most spacious tubs I've seen, they all appear healthy and even on 'cleaning day', the boxes are cacked up like factory breeders usually are! :2thumb:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

What would peoples views be on keeping two males in one RUB of appropriate size and two females in another and simply breeding a single litter when needed?

How many pups in a litter?

I don't want to have rats in conditions that people would not consider appropriate for pets, just because mine are feeder!


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

Cant remeber the name of the factory they seemed crowded to me however all the rats were in perfect health will try and find the link


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

bobby said:


> What would peoples views be on keeping two males in one RUB of appropriate size and two females in another and simply breeding a single litter when needed?
> 
> How many pups in a litter?
> 
> I don't want to have rats in conditions that people would not consider appropriate for pets, just because mine are feeder!


A lot of male Rats wouldn't go back with other males after being bred a few times. How many pups in a litter differs greatly, some have as few as 3, others as many as 14 per litter. Another good reason for being able to track your line of breeding, you can generally see how many your breeding lines are notorious for. : victory:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

You cant keep a male rat on its own can you?

Thanks for the replys BTW, you seem to know your stuff!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Iuse rub's for mating and then bigger ones for the does with young.
I then take out the mother and she goes back int eh big aviary cagew ith ehr friends and the female young go in with ehr.
The males then go into a big aviary cage with other juvie and adult males.
I've not had problems with this inteh years I've bred them. 
I've also nto had problems returning males to their groups after mating and I leave a buck with the does for aobut 8 day at a time.

I use 64ltr rub's for mating 1.3 and then 84's for nursing does.
I Have 6mm mesh on the top and sides.

Oh!! How things have changed in such a short time.
Only 2 years ago I was almost hung drawn and quartered, via the internet, for saying I used RUB's. Now, surprisingly, loads of breeders are using them for lactating does.
Maybe that is because they have realised that does do actually prefer a less open, safe, cosy area in which to bring up their young!


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

There seems to be way to many judgemental people this forum, either that or we are all judgemental and many only have the balls to speak openly on a forum lmao


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

bobby said:


> You cant keep a male rat on its own can you?
> 
> Thanks for the replys BTW, you seem to know your stuff!


Some breeders do, if they wont go back in with other males.
Is all good. 



saxon said:


> Iuse rub's for mating and then bigger ones for the does with young.
> I then take out the mother and she goes back int eh big aviary cagew ith ehr friends and the female young go in with ehr.
> The males then go into a big aviary cage with other juvie and adult males.
> I've not had problems with this inteh years I've bred them.
> ...


Do you find the 64ltrs OK for 4 Rats then? I put my two girls in one and took them out within a couple of hours because I thought it'd be too small once they'd filled out properly. :blush:
Now that I've used and seen used, RUBs with nursing does, I don't think I'd use anything else! They seem to be much more active and happier in the RUBs then they do in zoozones, critter nursing cages etc and they aren't as protective over kits. 



bobby said:


> There seems to be way to many judgemental people this forum, either that or we are all judgemental *and many only have the balls to speak openly on a forum lmao*


From experience, I'd say this is very, very true! :lol2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

:lol2:

You tracked some down and pulled them up or something?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

bobby said:


> :lol2:
> 
> You tracked some down and pulled them up or something?


I've met a few people at fairs who I'd previously had major disagreements with and unfortunately they started bitching and name calling. The most recent was somebody from a hunting & shooting forum, somebody posted about having 'too many' pups left from their bitches litter and complaining about the fact they were struggling to pay the upkeep of the pups and they were constantly making a mess, I said well maybe next time before breeding you don't do it until you can deal with ALL of the pups being left, as that is afterall what makes a responsible breeder, eeeeeeverybody and his son jumped on the bollocking band wagon told me I was talking rubbish and had a very sheltered and unrealistic opinion, in the end everybody was name calling and bitching (except me, believe it or not! :whistling2. I met the 'breeder' at a fair and pulled him up on it and told him that now we were face to face he could name call and bitch about my 'unrealistic and sheltered opinion'. Needless to say, he turned bright red and made a quick get a way and avoided all contact with me after that. :lol2::lol2:


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

wont the pet shop get a little wary about selling you a male and female? or do you buy the male from one store and a female from another?


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## sunnyskeg (Jul 3, 2008)

bobby said:


> There seems to be way to many judgemental people this forum, either that or we are all judgemental and many only have the balls to speak openly on a forum lmao


"judgement" depends on wether its a feeder breeder or a pet/show breeder posts.commercial breeders will use lab cages and feed a basic diet.Show/pet breeders will keep them in fancy cages and feed them the diet that they think is best,each will argue for there own .............what i'm trying to say is there are many types of boxes/cages you could use and many diets you could feed them,as long as your happy in youself that your providing the best for your rodents in cage space and diet thats all that matters.
We keep our rats in 142 ltr boxes 2 females to each box ,mice we keep in 32 ltr boxes 1 male/6 females,they are fed on a pig pellet ,mixed corn and dog food mix with the usual xtras carrots etc.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

mrcarlxx said:


> wont the pet shop get a little wary about selling you a male and female? or do you buy the male from one store and a female from another?


You think they _care_? :lol2:

Ahem ahem . . . This is just a generalisation for most pet shops who couldn't care less, places like pets at home for instance. :whistling2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

LoveForLizards said:


> You think they _care_? :lol2:
> 
> Ahem ahem . . . This is just a generalisation for most pet shops who couldn't care less, places like pets at home for instance. :whistling2:


Very tactful lol


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> You think they _care_? :lol2:
> 
> Ahem ahem . . . This is just a generalisation for most pet shops who couldn't care less, places like pets at home for instance. :whistling2:


my petshop does, but then if i went in asking for live mice i think they know what i would be useing them for.

pets at home is way to expencive. and i dont know of any breeders around my area, otherwise i would start breeding my own...

as it gets a little expencive feeding 5 royals that will only eat mice at £1.70+ per mouse


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Why wouldn't a pet shop want you to breed for food?


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

bobby said:


> Why wouldn't a pet shop want you to breed for food?


well think of how much money they make from selling me frozen mice and rats every week.....then have a guess at how much they will be getting off me if i were to breed my own food :whistling2:


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

has anyone here ever gone in to a pet shop and asked for a male and female mouse/rat?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> has anyone here ever gone in to a pet shop and asked for a male and female mouse/rat?


Yes thats how I started out with my mice, it was however a shop that sold reps too and I was fully upfront with them. The owner who got them for me said she didnt mind as long as I took the not so pretty ones :lol2:

Going to a show breeder for rats you would be hard pressed to find one that hasnt got a waiting list and you generally need to be able to talk the talk on what they believe rats should be kept like. Which isnt practical for the way you keep and breed for food long term.

You could buy from other feeder breeders in your area, most tend to cull out the weak or sick ones and only keep on the strong for future breeding, they are likely to be inbred for at least a few generations but most like me tend to gets new males in each year to keep the gene pool fresh.

I personally use ferplast mary or savic ruffy cages, they are one level cages designed for rats as I tried rubs and had condensation problems even with the top and the top half of 2 sides as mesh instead. Condensation is more of an issue if keeping them in a cool/cold place like a garage/shed. You wont generally have as much of an issue if you are keeping them indoors but even with the best cleaning in the world you will still notice a smell.

Rats can have anything from 4 - 20 per litter, most of my own average litters of 12 but at this number they dont thrive so I tend to thin out at a day old to a maximum of 8 sometimes less if they look runty. And because of this my own rats are massive, I have sold some as pets in the past and they make very big final rats even compared to some of the show rats so a sign I must be doing something right.

Cant help on the single male thing as I tend to have 2 females in a cage and move males between cages all the time so they are never lonely.


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## sunnyskeg (Jul 3, 2008)

oakelm said:


> Yes thats how I started out with my mice, it was however a shop that sold reps too and I was fully upfront with them. The owner who got them for me said she didnt mind as long as I took the not so pretty ones :lol2:
> 
> Going to a show breeder for rats you would be hard pressed to find one that hasnt got a waiting list and you generally need to be able to talk the talk on what they believe rats should be kept like. Which isnt practical for the way you keep and breed for food long term.
> 
> ...


and what diet do you feed your rats and mice?


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## moodyblue1969 (Jul 6, 2009)

pets at home refused to sell me a male and female because its against their policy to sell for breeding


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

so if i was to enter a shop and buy two or more females, how would i get hold of a male?

surely if i go in to a shop asking specificly for a male, then they will know i am going to breed.....so how does one get hold of a male?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

sunnyskeg said:


> and what diet do you feed your rats and mice?


I feed a diet based on the shunamite diet for the rats, like here Shunamite Rats and use rabbit mix as the base but rarely give fresh food extras unless we have loads left over like all the sprouts at xmas and the mice have a similar mix but I take out the dried pasta and there base is more oats that anything. I buy big sacks and mix it up by the bin full. I am at the moment doing my own mini trial and have half on this normal diet and half on pig pellets (the highest grain protein I could get). I want to actually see if it is a viable alternative, its not that much cheaper but every bit help. Im not convinced yet only 3 months in but im giving it a good 12 months trial so through both summer and winter to see if they produce well, hold condition and reach size as quickly. But I will post my findings eventually.


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> so if i was to enter a shop and buy two or more females, how would i get hold of a male?
> 
> surely if i go in to a shop asking specificly for a male, then they will know i am going to breed.....so how does one get hold of a male?


Just buy from two sources, females from one, males from another. You often see people on preloved or here that are selling mice and rats, always easiest to find someone local and buy your starting stock from them. Some of the pet shop stock are more inbred than the feeder breeders. And most of the pet shop rats generally have snuffles, and they dont tend to breed well when ill.


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Just buy from two sources, females from one, males from another. You often see people on preloved or here that are selling mice and rats, always easiest to find someone local and buy your starting stock from them. Some of the pet shop stock are more inbred than the feeder breeders. And most of the pet shop rats generally have snuffles, and they dont tend to breed well when ill.


 
so what sort of set up would one need to keep 5 royals going.....to keep to food coming constant.

how many would one need to start off and how long will it take for it to be well established

forgot to add, this will probably be mice, non of mine will touch rats lol


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> so what sort of set up would one need to keep 5 royals going.....to keep to food coming constant.
> 
> how many would one need to start off and how long will it take for it to be well established
> 
> forgot to add, this will probably be mice, non of mine will touch rats lol


Mice are super easy to breed, numbers depends on how well the mice you get breed and how good they are as mothers, I would say aim for more than you need to start as you can then sift through and weed out some of them. I would say 4 females, 1 male. I tend to rest my females for a short time between breedings. If you kept them in together in a 1.2 ratio then you would get pinks every 3 weeks but if you leave the litters to grow to full size that is a big strain then they are going to be pregs during weaning and as soon as they are weaned the next batch pop out. The mothers do tend to die very quickly when bred like this. I started out many moons ago this way and stopped pretty quick. If you put one cage of two females in with the male for 1 - 2 weeks then seperate then once those two females pop put the next cage of 2 females in for 1-2 weeks and again take out, then wean first batch, wait one week and away you again, there is less scuffles if you put female to male and not male to female. This method means you will take entire litter (or whats left) once weaned and you can either cull or grow on in a seperate tub. The litter sizes do vary some throw out 4, the most one female of mine has done was 18, most are around the 8-12 marker but again I tend to thin as they grow so taking them out at the various stages so I have about 4 that reach adult size, mainly females so I dont have to worry about seperating them in time to stop mother to son inbreeding. Each female only has 3 litters max before being replaced. They can go on longer but it a personal thing, you will get a feel for when a female isnt going to produce well again for you. Cull anything unhealthy, dont waste time and effort on sick mice. When starting out have enough food to cover you for a couple of months first then you will realise one day you have too much food and need to buy more snakes. :lol2:

EDIT - Forgot to add for that number of snakes producing your own food is probably going to cost more than buying, but if your looking for quality of food or plan on expanding your collection then good idea to breed your own.


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Mice are super easy to breed, numbers depends on how well the mice you get breed and how good they are as mothers, I would say aim for more than you need to start as you can then sift through and weed out some of them. I would say 4 females, 1 male. I tend to rest my females for a short time between breedings. If you kept them in together in a 1.2 ratio then you would get pinks every 3 weeks but if you leave the litters to grow to full size that is a big strain then they are going to be pregs during weaning and as soon as they are weaned the next batch pop out. The mothers do tend to die very quickly when bred like this. I started out many moons ago this way and stopped pretty quick. If you put one cage of two females in with the male for 1 - 2 weeks then seperate then once those two females pop put the next cage of 2 females in for 1-2 weeks and again take out, then wean first batch, wait one week and away you again, there is less scuffles if you put female to male and not male to female. This method means you will take entire litter (or whats left) once weaned and you can either cull or grow on in a seperate tub. The litter sizes do vary some throw out 4, the most one female of mine has done was 18, most are around the 8-12 marker but again I tend to thin as they grow so taking them out at the various stages so I have about 4 that reach adult size, mainly females so I dont have to worry about seperating them in time to stop mother to son inbreeding. Each female only has 3 litters max before being replaced. They can go on longer but it a personal thing, you will get a feel for when a female isnt going to produce well again for you. Cull anything unhealthy, dont waste time and effort on sick mice. When starting out have enough food to cover you for a couple of months first then you will realise one day you have too much food and need to buy more snakes. :lol2:
> 
> EDIT - Forgot to add for that number of snakes producing your own food is probably going to cost more than buying, but if your looking for quality of food or plan on expanding your collection then good idea to breed your own.


does it really cost more to breed than to buy? say i need ten mice a week and atm i am paying something like £1.70 per mouse


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Would 5 royals eat 10 mice a week?


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

bobby said:


> Would 5 royals eat 10 mice a week?


well, i have three adults ans they eat two mice a week, my smaller two are only on one a week


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> does it really cost more to breed than to buy? say i need ten mice a week and atm i am paying something like £1.70 per mouse


Well at £1.70 per mouse you are paying far too much, even ex breeders at the most cost 50p if you are buying online. But if you take into account the cost of all your initial setup, food, bedding, actual mice, the mice that are runts or ill that get culled that are either thrown or are not the right size then yes it is more expensive than buying online. If you are paying that much I suggest you shop around even if only while you get setup with your own.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Dont you feed bigger meals less often as they get bigger?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

bobby said:


> Dont you feed bigger meals less often as they get bigger?


Normally yes but he mentioned his royals wont touch rats so mice are the next option, feeding multiples is a pain but as long as they eat thats the main thing, royals still tend to feed weekly until they are truely fully grown.


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Well at £1.70 per mouse you are paying far too much, even ex breeders at the most cost 50p if you are buying online. But if you take into account the cost of all your initial setup, food, bedding, actual mice, the mice that are runts or ill that get culled that are either thrown or are not the right size then yes it is more expensive than buying online. If you are paying that much I suggest you shop around even if only while you get setup with your own.


i buy them from the petshop, and i have looked everywhere online and cant find them as cheap as 50p



bobby said:


> Dont you feed bigger meals less often as they get bigger?


yeah but mine dont/wont eat rats so they get two mice instead


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Price List - A & N Frozen Reptile Foods but you have the issue of buying bulk to cover postage, buy 200 ex breeders (if you need that big) at 47p they will probably fit in a small poly box thats £20 postage. Divide that up that makes them 57p each, still cheaper than your local.


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Price List - A & N Frozen Reptile Foods but you have the issue of buying bulk to cover postage, buy 200 ex breeders (if you need that big) at 47p they will probably fit in a small poly box thats £20 postage. Divide that up that makes them 57p each, still cheaper than your local.


 
£43.50 for 50 mice delivered?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> £43.50 for 50 mice delivered?


Thats why I said you would need to buy in bulk of about 200 at one time to cover the cost of the postage and packaging. A&N are really good suppliers, I still use them if for some reason I have a shortfall one month, but freshly killed mice will last a good 6 months in the freezer and they dont take up very much room, maybe one slim draw if that.

So with you feeding 10 a week thats 20 weeks supply, and 20 weeks in 5 months so well within the time to be used. As lets face it how do you know how long the ones in your local have been sat there in the freezer?


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Thats why I said you would need to buy in bulk of about 200 at one time to cover the cost of the postage and packaging. A&N are really good suppliers, I still use them if for some reason I have a shortfall one month, but freshly killed mice will last a good 6 months in the freezer and they dont take up very much room, maybe one slim draw if that.
> 
> So with you feeding 10 a week thats 20 weeks supply, and 20 weeks in 5 months so well within the time to be used. As lets face it how do you know how long the ones in your local have been sat there in the freezer?


 
sorry i am sh*t at math, how much all in for 200 delivered?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

mrcarlxx said:


> sorry i am sh*t at math, how much all in for 200 delivered?


£114.00, that includes the postage and packaging, so hits the pocket hard but it is 5 months supply.

If you want to look at it differently its only £5.70 per week instead of £17.00 per week which you are paying your local, mega savings!!!


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> £114.00, that includes the postage and packaging, so hits the pocket hard but it is 5 months supply.


its not to hard on the pocket, but the missus might argue otherwise...i will bookmark the page, cheers :2thumb:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

mrcarlxx said:


> its not to hard on the pocket, but the missus might argue otherwise...i will bookmark the page, cheers :2thumb:


lol

You are going to tell her you are spending £100+ on mice and they are going in the freezer. 

RIP mrcarl :lol2:


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

bobby said:


> lol
> 
> You are going to tell her you are spending £100+ on mice and they are going in the freezer.
> 
> RIP mrcarl :lol2:


lmao, good point! lets see what she says, she is usally rather understanding....but lets see how she will react when i want to spend over £100 on dead mice


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

bobby said:


> lol
> 
> You are going to tell her you are spending £100+ on mice and they are going in the freezer.
> 
> RIP mrcarl :lol2:


Word it more like, I have just saved £226 on 5 months of snake food, but the freezer is now the mouse house. 
You may live :lol2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

I would like to submit the revised version



oakelm said:


> Word it more like, I have just saved £226 on 5 months of snake food


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

oakelm said:


> Word it more like, I have just saved £226 on 5 months of snake food, but the freezer is now the mouse house.
> You may live :lol2:


im gonna try and get them on rats in the next week or so, so i will give it a while otherwise i will be stuck with literally hundereds of dead frozen mice :lol2:

i supose i could sell them as pets... hehe


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

bobby said:


> There seems to be way to many judgemental people this forum, either that or we are all judgemental and many only have the balls to speak openly on a forum lmao


*It wasnt' this forum I was attacked on though it was a rodent forum but it was by people who are now on here and themselves breeding to feed.*
*Bloody hypocrites they are.*



LoveForLizards;5664820
Do you find the 64ltrs OK for 4 Rats then? I put my two girls in one and took them out within a couple of hours because I thought it'd be too small once they'd filled out properly. :blush:
[B said:


> I use 64's for the mating process although I do sometimes leave the male with the does for 4-8 days. They are happy enough and get 'playtime' in the big aviary every day going into the RUB's each night to 'enjoy each others company in private'!!!!:flrt::flrt:[/B]
> 
> 
> Now that I've used and seen used, RUBs with nursing does, I don't think I'd use anything else! They seem to be much more active and happier in the RUBs then they do in zoozones, critter nursing cages etc and they aren't as protective over kits.
> ...


*I would use the 84's for the mating setups as well but my father bought me 64's, thinking he was doing me a favour, I dont' want to waste them so use them and have no problems.*
*All my does seem to enjoy the RUB's to bring up their kitts I wouldn't change now.*


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## genghis55 (Jul 13, 2009)

now I've got all the caging sorted out ive got my self a male fancy rat, i was going to go to two different shops so i know the rats won't be related but everywhere was sold out of rats, only one shop had some males.

but im heading back out 2moz to find 2 or 3 females.


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## genghis55 (Jul 13, 2009)

just another quick question, what types of food can i give to rats as a treat or just for a more varied diet?


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

genghis55 said:


> just another quick question, what types of food can i give to rats as a treat or just for a more varied diet?


Here is a list of loads of fruit and veg they can have Fancy Rats • View topic - A-Z of safe Fruits, Beans and Vegetables

And here is a bit more on the shunamite diet, if you feed this type of diet then they will get everything they need Fancy Rats | Information | The Shunamite Diet

I dont personally feed many extras but a few of them get whole small granary loaves that they eat the inside out of and then make houses out off them. And any females that seem a little drained can be given lactol. Also good for big litters as the young ones love it.

Have a play about with different things, you will find what works for you and has the least waste.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

mrcarlxx said:


> my petshop does, but then if i went in asking for live mice i think they know what i would be useing them for.
> 
> pets at home is way to expencive. and i dont know of any breeders around my area, otherwise i would start breeding my own...
> 
> as it gets a little expencive feeding 5 royals that will only eat mice at £1.70+ per mouse


There's breeders everywhere, there's always a rodent breeder as far as you can throw 'em!



mrcarlxx said:


> has anyone here ever gone in to a pet shop and asked for a male and female mouse/rat?


I have and got told where the door was. Funnily enough, that same shop can't sex mice for s:censor: and sold me 2.2 as opposed to 4.0 like I asked, yay me. :no1::lol2:



oakelm said:


> Going to a show breeder for rats you would be hard pressed to find one that hasnt got a waiting list and you generally need to be able to talk the talk on what they believe rats should be kept like. Which isnt practical for the way you keep and breed for food long term.


You don't have to lie or 'talk the talk'. Not everybody who breeds show stock, is a fluffy pet owner. I've thought in the past about breeding show lines to produce show quality kits to sell for feeder breeding, I know of two people who do so who I could get stock off, also. Not sure if it'd be 'worth' it though, as there isn't much a demand for them at the moment AFAIAA. 



mrcarlxx said:


> so if i was to enter a shop and buy two or more females, how would i get hold of a male?
> 
> surely if i go in to a shop asking specificly for a male, then they will know i am going to breed.....so how does one get hold of a male?


Go in and ask for two males then. Cull one to feed, keep one to breed. Shimples!



mrcarlxx said:


> its not to hard on the pocket, but the missus might argue otherwise...i will bookmark the page, cheers :2thumb:


Something tells me you'll be close to joining the mice in the freezer...:lol2:



genghis55 said:


> just another quick question, what types of food can i give to rats as a treat or just for a more varied diet?


My pets and all feeders have/had a mix of Rabbit muesli (£5.70/15 kg), 3x cereals (usually puffed wheat, puffed rice and oats), a small amount of senior/lite beef Dog food and a few different seeds. Usually works out at about £10/20kg. Rabbit Muesli from the local horse feed shop, cereal from home bargains (perfect sized boxes, little-to-no sugar in them and the price is good as well), Dog food is usually free sample packs lol or if there is a reduced pack at the farm shop when I get Rabbit muesli I get that, nothing wrong with it, just split packaging usually. Seeds are usually bird mix or hamster seed mix. For young/nursing/growing on Rats, they also get a spoon full of naturediet senior/lite, scrambled eggs, lactol (or any puppy replacement milk for that matter) forumla, a few extra Dog kibbles, scrap meats etc. Ours also have cooked bones when we have them, we take the legs and breast off of out Chickens then throw in what's left for the Rats, takes them aaaaages to get through it all and it's good for enrichment and their teeth, costs nothing as it's scrap anyway, and stops foxes trying to get into bins at night.lol


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## ern79 (Jul 26, 2007)

how often do rats normally breed? ive just picked up a 2. 4 group that are living comunally in a large cage, im not looking to turn over lots of babies but certainly have the snakes to feed if needs be.


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

If u leave them altogether about every 3-4 weeks i give a week or two break inbetween so they are well rested between batches of them mine seem to produce between 10-15 per time but i surpose it depends on age and size of rats


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

now i hear loads are talking about keeping them in HUGE rubs, there are people keeping 4 rats in an 18l rub.

Im not saying weather i agree or not but wanted ur views :2thumb:


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

I am keeping a trio in approx 36 litre rub seems not crowded and the rats seem happy enough 18 seems a bit small to me alright for transporting in but not for keeping in long periods


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