# Best venomous snake as a pet?



## My Serpentine Mind

Okay, first, let me say one thing nice and clear:
I AM NOT GOING TO GET A VENOMOUS SNAKE!!!! To me that's just silly to own something that is potentially dangerous. But we all have our opinions.

Anyway, if I was, besides telling me to find my brain, what would you tell me the best venomous snake is for a beginner? TRUST ME, if I ever got a venomous snake it would be in the far, far, FAR future. I'm just curious and bored since I've been editing my novel and it's sooo boring...I feel bad for my readers  and it's 250 pages...I'm on page 1.


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## wildlifewarrior

My Serpentine Mind said:


> To me that's just silly to own something that is potentially dangerous. But we all have our opinions.


firstlly i'd stop calling them pets....they arent really the sort of animal that falls into that category

secondly i think you may have just offended alot of keepers of hots by saying they are silly

lastly you dont want a animal that can be dangerous even in a locked viv in a locked room with some of the best medical care in this country and such few bite reports....yet you keep a dog thats free to roam around your house and its speices are known for more attacks than any other animal....interesting


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## My Serpentine Mind

wildlifewarrior said:


> firstlly i'd stop calling them pets....they arent really the sort of animal that falls into that category
> 
> secondly i think you may have just offended alot of keepers of hots by saying they are silly
> 
> lastly you dont want a animal that can be dangerous even in a locked viv in a locked room with some of the best medical care in this country and such few bite reports....yet you keep a dog thats free to roam around your house and its speices are known for more attacks than any other animal....interesting


I know, my friend was wondering. I don't mean their silly, their quite interesting, but if it got out it wouldn't be good. I'm not one for venomous animals, but I do enjoy them. I understand about the dogs, in fact that's what it took to get my grandmother to understand that a royal python can't kill you. Anyone offended I apologize, I just meant if something happens and it gets out it would be a danger if you couldn't find it (This was actually stated by someone I know that keeps venomous reptiles.) 

The reason I asked this is my friend's uncle was considering venomous reptiles, we told him no, but he insists on one (he is getting a license) however she does not want anyone to know (she's silly like that) and insists on me saying "i'm curious" if that clears anything up. Yes she is a bit ashamed... I know it sounds silly but it is true.


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## leecb0

Oxyuranus microlepidotus i would say:2thumb: cheap as chips too


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## cjsnakes

leecb0 said:


> Oxyuranus microlepidotus i would say:2thumb: cheap as chips too



are they the snake known as the small scaled snake? native to Australia think i remember reading about them when my friend moved out there...quite feisty things


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## leecb0

cjsnakes said:


> are they the snake known as the small scaled snake? yea thats one of the names it goes by
> native to Australia think i remember reading about them when my friend moved out there...quite feisty things


 i prefer the phrase "missunderstood"


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## afalbusa

you just love it dont you lee, you see them coming and wham.:lol2:


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## terciopelo_dave

My Serpentine Mind said:


> what would you tell me the best venomous snake is for a beginner?


Go for Phallus penisii. It's the safest option.


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## leecb0

afalbusa said:


> you just love it dont you lee, you see them coming and wham.:lol2:


i thought i would stay a way for a week which i did then i come back on and...well......my reason to stay away have been re enforced:bash:


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## My Serpentine Mind

terciopelo_dave said:


> Go for Phallus penisii. It's the safest option.


 knock it off, xD


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## kain

Usualy when someone says a "friends uncle" that translates to "me (but I don't whant to admit it)"


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## holdan

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## holdan

sorry that just made me laff kain:2thumb:


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## terciopelo_dave

My Serpentine Mind said:


> knock it off, xD


You started it.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back. 

It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


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## AgkistrodonContortrix

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back.
> 
> It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


I'm new here, but this caught my attention.I see where you are coming from here, but in all fairness how is some one supposed to take a question like this seriously when the title is 'venomous snake as a PET' ? I have my pets in my living room. My pets are not capable of killing me, or costing me a finger or more. A venomous snake of any species is, and an intelligent person would not have one in their living room, so they should not be called 'pets'. Sorry for my rant, but it's just the amount of questions I read on the internet, I am not surprised you guys would show your fustration out in humour at all, as this one is just silly.If the person does not want to keep venomous snakes as they stated in their first post, then try answering the question with this: 'It does not matter, as you do not need to know...'


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## pythondave82

leecb0 said:


> Oxyuranus microlepidotus i would say:2thumb: cheap as chips too


You could do a lot worse! A bite is a bite, but handling is something else! Most would be shocked at their nature (give or take a few examples, I believe Brian Petrie's friend and his "pet" knuckles had a run-in, over in Oz).

Cheers,

Dave


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## terciopelo_dave

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back.
> 
> It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


Tim, no one is being arrogant or elitist. It's simply the nature of the question, a question that's been asked ad nauseum previously, that provokes seemingly cocky responses. 
When you say the guy (trust me it's a girl) asked a serious question, she didn't. Re-read it.
Here's how the question appears when I read it.
"I'm never going to get a venomous snake and I think keeping them is stupid. I'm asking this question because my friend's uncle wants a venomous snake and my friend is ashamed of him as a result. You don't know him, you don't know his experience level, but still I want you to advise me, on his behalf, what to get."
Err, sorry, No. I personally doubt that said "uncle" even exists, and if the OP isn't ever going to get a hot, what's the point formulating a considered, structured answer? None, in a word.
Oh and for the record, anyone who has to ask what venomous snake makes a good pet, isn't ready to keep venomous snakes.
Think how you'd feel if you got asked repeatedly "Tarantulas can kill you and I'm never going to get one but I still want you to tell me which to buy, even though I won't".
Trust me, it gets old pretty quick.


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## pythondave82

Just to a quick "wake-up call" guys Viperlover is on this thread, can anybody spot him - he stands out like a throbbing thumb!

lets play "Where's Wally"!


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## slippery42

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back.
> 
> It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


If you dont like what you see on this section stay off it might be an idea?


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## Ssthisto

My Serpentine Mind said:


> what would you tell me the best venomous snake is for a beginner?


Try _Heterodon nasicus nasicus_.

Venomous, rear-fanged, but _most _folks who keep them (I'm not one of them) treat them as essentially harmless. I don't; I'd rather not take risks I don't have to, and even when I was trying to remove mine from his bulb guard, I made sure his head was blocked (gotta love lightbulb boxes) so he COULDN'T whip round and bite me while I was cutting the wire to get him free. 

After having actually seen a couple of front-fanged species in the flesh and without knowing anything about the skill level or more critically handling style of the keeper in question, there's no way I'd even make a suggestion of what *might *be appropriate, even if I owned DWAL species myself. For example, although I keep corns and ratsnakes, something ratsnake-shaped like a boomslang would be absolutely wrong for my handling style. I keep royal pythons, but a similarly shaped puff adder would be a disaster the first time I needed to do more than shift it into a bin for clean-out.

I'm hoping to be able to see a couple of species that MIGHT be suitable for my handling skills at some point - but I won't know whether I could cope with those species until I actually see how they behave in the flesh, not behind zoo glass, with someone trying to do general maintenance tasks around them. I was privileged to see the handling style required for a puff adder, and now I know that that is FAR too much snake for me; I wouldn't be able to manage, and I would be putting myself and others at risk.


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## Kat91

The one without any fangs :whistling2:


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## trueviper

If anyone out there is really serious about keeping venomous snakes as captives then the sensible thing to do is do plenty of research.

Read as many books as you can get your hands on and visit these forums by all means (and theyr'e are enough of them out there to get really good varied and detailed answers from experianced keepers) but instead of asking the same questions over and over again USE THE SEARCH OPTION to find out what you need to know :2thumb:

Chances are your questions have been answered in previous posts.

We don't want to discourage new keepers to the hobby,quite the opposite, but we do expect them to be intelligent enough to take venomous snake keeping seriously.


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## leecb0

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back.
> 
> It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


Yep your dead right tim so from now on, you know what, You can deal with all the stupid questions that get asked day in and day out by the viperlovers and other fools who think its a good idea to ruin the DWA section of this forum as i cant be arsed with it anymore. This section of the forum is DEAD. in the last couple of weeks i have cought out TWO people who were not DWAL holders who were saying they were, starting threads saying these are my snakes etc. and on here right now there are one or two people i believe are "Walter's".
If you look back over the last six months and see how many proper DWAL holders posted on here everyday, then look how many post today, you will see that most dont bother anymore and the reason is posts like this. You complain that we treat posts like this as a joke....thats because this forum is a joke mate. and as dave said viperlover is on this thread that says it all................so to make you happy from now on I WILL STOP POSTING ON HERE, RIP the DWA section


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

slippery42 said:


> If you dont like what you see on this section stay off it might be an idea?


How about you shush up a bit as this is a PUBLIC forum for everyone. 



leecb0 said:


> Yep your dead right tim so from now on, you know what, You can deal with all the stupid questions that get asked day in and day out by the viperlovers and other fools who think its a good idea to ruin the DWA section of this forum as i cant be arsed with it anymore. This section of the forum is DEAD. in the last couple of weeks i have cought out TWO people who were not DWAL holders who were saying they were, starting threads saying these are my snakes etc. and on here right now there are one or two people i believe are "Walter's".
> If you look back over the last six months and see how many proper DWAL holders posted on here everyday, then look how many post today, you will see that most dont bother anymore and the reason is posts like this. You complain that we treat posts like this as a joke....thats because this forum is a joke mate. and as dave said viperlover is on this thread that says it all................so to make you happy from now on I WILL STOP POSTING ON HERE, RIP the DWA section


I get asked enough 'stupid' questions anyway. I keep a lot of spiders so i get the usual "Aren't tarantulas deadly?" or "Have they been devenomised or de-fanged". I just accept that these questions are part of what i keep, as should you lot when people are asking questions about what you keep. 

And these two people that you say you've caught out as being non DWAL holders. Let's be 100% honest here, what do you as a person get out of outting them? Do you think that because i don't hold a piece of paper from my local council that i shouldn't be allowed to say keep a black widow, or a sydney funnel web? Even though i've kept arachnids for over 15 years i shouldn't be allowed them? The thing that differs with myself and many of you on here is one thing, money. I've not got the money to apply so therefor i shouldn't be allowed one as i'm not making my council that little bit richer.

And i am not ViperLover, i think the same way as you lot, the guys an asshole, but he's young so i tend to lay off him a bit. And there are far bigger assholes of normal age on this site that need telling where to go.

Oh and as for the "RIP DWA section, you will never post here again" comment, that's a little extreme isn't it? All i would like to see is people from here helping people that have questions about what they keep, as even i'm interested in what you guys keep! Which is why i come on here from time to time.


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## terciopelo_dave

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> All i would like to see is people from here helping people that have questions about what they keep, as even i'm interested in what you guys keep! Which is why i come on here from time to time.


Tim, we'd all help as much as possible if we thought for one minute that we were helping someone genuine. Allow me to explain what's wrong with this post.
The poster is in Florida (according to their profile anyway). I therefore assume that this alleged "friend's uncle" is a Florida resident also.
In Florida you require a permit to keep venomous snakes. The poster said that the "uncle" was getting said permit. To do so he would have to have completed a minimum of 1000 hours mentoring and training with a zoo, serpentarium, or registered private collector, and be able to prove dates and times of training as well as content. I know this as I recently visited Florida and spoke at length with a guy called Mike who was going through this process at Reptile World Serpentarium in St Cloud. With this in mind, anyone who had completed such training would be all too aware that venomous snakes cannot be described as pets, and also would be more than capable of deciding which species to keep without the intervention of some neice's friend who decided to post on a UK based forum.
Take my point?
Now that you know that, are you still as quick to defend an obviously idiotic post?
If you can find any decent posts you'll find decent answers too, it's just as Lee has said, this section of the forum has recently become a total retard magnet. That's why we're all a little quick to go on the defensive.


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## slippery42

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> How about you shush up a bit as this is a PUBLIC forum for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> I get asked enough 'stupid' questions anyway. I keep a lot of spiders so i get the usual "Aren't tarantulas deadly?" or "Have they been devenomised or de-fanged". I just accept that these questions are part of what i keep, as should you lot when people are asking questions about what you keep.
> 
> And these two people that you say you've caught out as being non DWAL holders. Let's be 100% honest here, what do you as a person get out of outting them? Do you think that because i don't hold a piece of paper from my local council that i shouldn't be allowed to say keep a black widow, or a sydney funnel web? Even though i've kept arachnids for over 15 years i shouldn't be allowed them? The thing that differs with myself and many of you on here is one thing, money. I've not got the money to apply so therefor i shouldn't be allowed one as i'm not making my council that little bit richer.
> 
> And i am not ViperLover, i think the same way as you lot, the guys an asshole, but he's young so i tend to lay off him a bit. And there are far bigger assholes of normal age on this site that need telling where to go.
> 
> Oh and as for the "RIP DWA section, you will never post here again" comment, that's a little extreme isn't it? All i would like to see is people from here helping people that have questions about what they keep, as even i'm interested in what you guys keep! Which is why i come on here from time to time.


Your right it is a public forum and if you dont like the answers that people post well look elsewhere for your entertainment.


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## stuartdouglas

Got to agree with Graeme, Lee and Dave, this section of the forum is now taken over by retards who seem to like winding up genuine keepers with moronic posts and then self righteous ****wipes get all uppity when the genuine keepers get p'd off with them.

So far on here, I've had a 14 year old slagging me off, his dad offering me out, endless criticism from a 16 yr old non-keeper...you wonder why we get totally ****ed off with cretins making postslike that and you aren't much better Tim...............for getting all "high and mighty" personally I just CBA with sifting out the genuine from the walt's..........


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## southwest vipers

. 





And these two people that you say you've caught out as being non DWAL holders. Let's be 100% honest here, what do you as a person get out of outting them? Do you think that because i don't hold a piece of paper from my local council that i shouldn't be allowed to say keep a black widow, or a sydney funnel web? Even though i've kept arachnids for over 15 years i shouldn't be allowed them? The thing that differs with myself and many of you on here is one thing, money. I've not got the money to apply so therefor i shouldn't be allowed one as i'm not making my council that little bit richer.

Yes, you are correct Tim. Just because you have kept spiders for 15 years you should not be allowed to keep DWA listed species. Simply because you do not qualify as you have not applied. The LA are not making any money whatsoever from DWA applications, as the time and effort that goes on to process an application far outweighs the fee (£255). Should you approach the council in a civil and intelligent manner, you may be suprised at how helpful they are. You seem to bear a grudge about the cost as this isn't the first time you've raised this point on the forum. You can ask our licencing officer for advice and help on what is needed to qualify completely free of charge. I believe that you do not wish to apply, not because of the fee, but you know you will not qualify as your property and home enviroment are not appropriate to keep such species. You say you would like to keep widows and Sydney funnelwebs but you can not guarantee their security, therefore running the risk of an escape into a densely populated area with obvious consequenses. This is what people on here get out of "outing people", it protects the hobby and it protects the public. I hope this explains it in full.


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## helraiizza

leecb0 said:


> Oxyuranus microlepidotus i would say:2thumb: cheap as chips too


i thought you couldnt import taipans from australia, i thought all snake exports from there are still banned??

my apologies if im wrong...

also after reading some replies, im wondering if the thread i started falls in to the category of stupid/idiotic??

i was genuinly considering looking into "hots" in the near future ,but have decided against it..
having a feisty coastal is one thing ,but a few teeth marks and a bit of blood..
getting tagged by a venomous snake is a total different kettle...

to the OP.. tell your uncle to get a mangrove:2thumb::lol2:


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## Ssthisto

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> And these two people that you say you've caught out as being non DWAL holders.


I think the point with the people Leecb0 mentioned, it's not that they're keepers of illegally owned non-licenced DWA species... it's that they're claiming they own animals they don't, just to get the supposed 'cred' of owning DWA.

I could take some photos of some animals during a "keeper for a day" thing, or maybe photos of animals belonging to other people, and CLAIM that those animals are mine, and while we're at it even that I have a licence (although, with my location in my profile it wouldn't be too difficult to find out that I don't - and then I'm up crap creek if someone believes I OWN the animals but don't have a licence for 'em!)

Awww, heck. I own black widow spiders. They're living in my mum's shed. I haven't seen 'em for a while, and they're probably breeding in there. See, it's that easy to say you own something. I could even ask my mum to go take a picture for me with today's newspaper 

My mum's shed is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. 

Getting a picture of "my pet prairie rattlers" or "my pet diamondbacks" might be a little more difficult, since they've got a vivarium several hundred miles square.

As it is, I am very, very GLAD I am not a member of the DWAL crew... because I don't see it as "having cred" to own 'em - it's being in a state of brown alert every time you have to do anything more than routine maintenance, and minimum yellow alert the rest of the time. I am not ready to have animals like that yet. I am certainly curious, and would like to learn the handling skills needed to deal with certain species (and I hope that curiosity and a willingness to *listen *to people with more experience than me means that I am welcome in this section as a nonkeeper who might _someday _be one) ... but I don't see the point in claiming I own anything I don't.



southwest vipers said:


> The LA are not making any money whatsoever from DWA applications, as the time and effort that goes on to process an application far outweighs the fee (£255).


But surely the "not making any money" and the actual fee are different in different council areas... or were you referring specifically to where Tim's located? I know that my local council charges less than £100; I looked up a couple of councils that charge upwards of £1000.


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## helraiizza

Ssthisto said:


> I think the point with the people Leecb0 mentioned, it's not that they're keepers of illegally owned non-licenced DWA species... it's that they're claiming they own animals they don't, just to get the supposed 'cred' of owning DWA.
> 
> I could take some photos of some animals during a "keeper for a day" thing, or maybe photos of animals belonging to other people, and CLAIM that those animals are mine, and while we're at it even that I have a licence (although, with my location in my profile it wouldn't be too difficult to find out that I don't - and then I'm up crap creek if someone believes I OWN the animals but don't have a licence for 'em!)
> 
> Awww, heck. I own black widow spiders. They're living in my mum's shed. I haven't seen 'em for a while, and they're probably breeding in there. See, it's that easy to say you own something. I could even ask my mum to go take a picture for me with today's newspaper
> 
> My mum's shed is in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
> 
> Getting a picture of "my pet prairie rattlers" or "my pet diamondbacks" might be a little more difficult, since they've got a vivarium several hundred miles square.
> 
> As it is, I am very, very GLAD I am not a member of the DWAL crew... because I don't see it as "having cred" to own 'em - it's being in a state of brown alert every time you have to do anything more than routine maintenance, and minimum yellow alert the rest of the time. I am not ready to have animals like that yet. I am certainly curious, and would like to learn the handling skills needed to deal with certain species (and I hope that curiosity and a willingness to *listen *to people with more experience than me means that I am welcome in this section as a nonkeeper who might _someday _be one) ... but I don't see the point in claiming I own anything I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> But surely the "not making any money" and the actual fee are different in different council areas... or were you referring specifically to where Tim's located? I know that my local council charges less than £100; I looked up a couple of councils that charge upwards of £1000.


 
what like this:lol2:


check out my new rattler


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## pythondave82

helraiizza said:


> i thought you couldnt import taipans from australia, i thought all snake exports from there are still banned??
> 
> my apologies if im wrong...
> 
> also after reading some replies, im wondering if the thread i started falls in to the category of stupid/idiotic??
> 
> i was genuinly considering looking into "hots" in the near future ,but have decided against it..
> having a feisty coastal is one thing ,but a few teeth marks and a bit of blood..
> getting tagged by a venomous snake is a total different kettle...
> 
> to the OP.. tell your uncle to get a mangrove:2thumb::lol2:


Put one in your pocket, and don't get caught, get home and give him/her a drink of tea or coffee with a snack and I guess you got away with it - yes, thats how it works! 

Get caught, and expect the same back from the ozzys, they don't mess about!

Dave


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## leptophis

I am amazed keepers post on here at all, your right maybe we are a little grumpy impatient and fed up of the same questions, but does it really take that much effort to search through topics and read the answers given countless times by people taking time out from their busy lives, dave and stuart on here are very patient and generally do answer honest queries, i myself was approached by someone on here , only on facebook, it was like being stalked, then he started on my partner and now hes moved on to another venomous keeper, and i quote, "is it ok if i come play with your venomous" again and again, so yes your probably right, but there is some reason,


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## pythondave82

leptophis said:


> I am amazed keepers post on here at all, your right maybe we are a little grumpy impatient and fed up of the same questions, but does it really take that much effort to search through topics and read the answers given countless times by people taking time out from their busy lives, dave and stuart on here are very patient and generally do answer honest queries, i myself was approached by someone on here , only on facebook, it was like being stalked, then he started on my partner and now hes moved on to another venomous keeper, and i quote, "is it ok if i come play with your venomous" again and again, so yes your probably right, but there is some reason,


 
I'm unsure how anybody can take this level of people seriously! I think a year or two at the uni. of life is called for!

Sorry, but it's true.

Dave


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## paulrimmer69

leptophis said:


> I am amazed keepers post on here at all, your right maybe we are a little grumpy impatient and fed up of the same questions, but does it really take that much effort to search through topics and read the answers given countless times by people taking time out from their busy lives, dave and stuart on here are very patient and generally do answer honest queries, i myself was approached by someone on here , only on facebook, it was like being stalked, then he started on my partner and now hes moved on to another venomous keeper, and i quote, "is it ok if i come play with your venomous" again and again, so yes your probably right, but there is some reason,


hmmmm sounds familiar! best not mention any names though as the lynch mob will be out again:2thumb:


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## captaincaveman

Ive no interest in keeping hots, really dont see the point in keeping them as i love the handling side too much, worst thing that will happen to me is an arm full of pin pricks and some bruising, suits me fine:no1:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

southwest vipers said:


> . Yes, you are correct Tim. Just because you have kept spiders for 15 years you should not be allowed to keep DWA listed species. Simply because you do not qualify as you have not applied. The LA are not making any money whatsoever from DWA applications, as the time and effort that goes on to process an application far outweighs the fee (£255). Should you approach the council in a civil and intelligent manner, you may be suprised at how helpful they are. You seem to bear a grudge about the cost as this isn't the first time you've raised this point on the forum. You can ask our licencing officer for advice and help on what is needed to qualify completely free of charge. I believe that you do not wish to apply, not because of the fee, but you know you will not qualify as your property and home enviroment are not appropriate to keep such species. You say you would like to keep widows and Sydney funnelwebs but you can not guarantee their security, therefore running the risk of an escape into a densely populated area with obvious consequenses. This is what people on here get out of "outing people", it protects the hobby and it protects the public. I hope this explains it in full.


I can keep things locked away very well. I know the risk of keeping DWA listed spiders but i don't think i should be treated the same way as someone who keeps snakes. Mainly because a spider can be put into a faunarium and locked away in a viv and that's more than enough security, i shouldn't need the extra room to keep something like spiders.

I just think an overhaul of the whole DWA system should be looked into, like maybe a new system, because as someone just pointed out maybe not all councils are greedy with the DWA but some are very greedy with it and for those people in those areas it's not fair really


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## slippery42

Opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one and we have a right one here!


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## paulrimmer69

tim no offence but you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder about dwa keepers in general, to quote from another thread.......

DWAL holders are pretty stuck up themselfs anyway if i'm honest.

to be honest the dwa keepers i know are pretty much the opposite, i havent met anyone since i started who hasnt been more than helpful, i think you will probably find its down to the sheer volume of idiots who ask the same questions over and over again that get peoples back up but to say dwa keepers are stuck up is way off the mark imo


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## southwest vipers

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I can keep things locked away very well. I know the risk of keeping DWA listed spiders but i don't think i should be treated the same way as someone who keeps snakes. Mainly because a spider can be put into a faunarium and locked away in a viv and that's more than enough security, i shouldn't need the extra room to keep something like spiders.
> 
> I just think an overhaul of the whole DWA system should be looked into, like maybe a new system, because as someone just pointed out maybe not all councils are greedy with the DWA but some are very greedy with it and for those people in those areas it's not fair really


If you know how to keep the spiders secure and you are aware of the risks and you think you can show the licencing officer that you have a high degree of competence, then what is stopping you from applying? The LO is very aware that the demands of an insect are far less than a DWA snake and you will be treated accordingly. Just as I was treated differently to someone wanting to keep a monkey. Why not contact the LO and ask her to visit you. Use your common sense and prove to her that you know what you are doing and she will begin the process. (On the receipt of the fee). There's no excuse not to.
As for your point on an overhaul of the DWA "system", the act and how it is applied has recently been reviewed and will be implimented very soon. It will then be easier to seize illegally held animals and prosecute offenders as the Local Authorities are to be given more powers to do so. 
Regarding your point on other LA's costings, firstly, it's not your problem and you are lucky to live in a city where your application fee is subsidised by the council tax payer. And secondly, emloyees in councils in other areas are all on higher and lower rates of pay along with the expence of the whole process depending on how comlicated it all is. That is how they are able to explain their costs. This is also something that is to be addressed in the review. You may find that the cost increases. I would get in quick if I were you.
Good luck.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

paulrimmer69 said:


> tim no offence but you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder about dwa keepers in general, to quote from another thread.......
> 
> DWAL holders are pretty stuck up themselfs anyway if i'm honest.
> 
> to be honest the dwa keepers i know are pretty much the opposite, i havent met anyone since i started who hasnt been more than helpful, i think you will probably find its down to the sheer volume of idiots who ask the same questions over and over again that get peoples back up but to say dwa keepers are stuck up is way off the mark imo


Yeah and that comment came in a thread started by you of what a great guy you were as you played a trick on a 16 year old kid? What a legend you are. And the way i've seen some of you lot from this thread talk to people is why i have this opinion of some of you, yes some, not all. That was my mistake as i should of put some. But yes sorry. Now go stalk your 16 year old. 



southwest vipers said:


> If you know how to keep the spiders secure and you are aware of the risks and you think you can show the licencing officer that you have a high degree of competence, then what is stopping you from applying? The LO is very aware that the demands of an insect are far less than a DWA snake and you will be treated accordingly. Just as I was treated differently to someone wanting to keep a monkey. Why not contact the LO and ask her to visit you. Use your common sense and prove to her that you know what you are doing and she will begin the process. (On the receipt of the fee). There's no excuse not to.
> As for your point on an overhaul of the DWA "system", the act and how it is applied has recently been reviewed and will be implimented very soon. It will then be easier to seize illegally held animals and prosecute offenders as the Local Authorities are to be given more powers to do so.
> Regarding your point on other LA's costings, firstly, it's not your problem and you are lucky to live in a city where your application fee is subsidised by the council tax payer. And secondly, emloyees in councils in other areas are all on higher and lower rates of pay along with the expence of the whole process depending on how comlicated it all is. That is how they are able to explain their costs. This is also something that is to be addressed in the review. You may find that the cost increases. I would get in quick if I were you.
> Good luck.


I really want to do it mate, my main thing is the money at the monent as they want it all in full don't they? Like there is no monthly payment thing you can do?


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## terciopelo_dave

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yeah and that comment came in a thread started by you of what a great guy you were as you played a trick on a 16 year old kid? What a legend you are. And the way i've seen some of you lot from this thread talk to people is why i have this opinion of some of you, yes some, not all. That was my mistake as i should of put some. But yes sorry. Now go stalk your 16 year old.


Tim, I've been polite so far, but that's it. Saying that to Paul shows that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about with this situation, so seriously, back off now. 
And with regard to the topic of the thread, the way you talk just shows that you're only jealous of DWA holders because they've got something you want. If you can't afford to apply, tough. Stop whining about it. Not our problem.


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## southwest vipers

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yeah and that comment came in a thread started by you of what a great guy you were as you played a trick on a 16 year old kid? What a legend you are. And the way i've seen some of you lot from this thread talk to people is why i have this opinion of some of you, yes some, not all. That was my mistake as i should of put some. But yes sorry. Now go stalk your 16 year old.
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to do it mate, my main thing is the money at the monent as they want it all in full don't they? Like there is no monthly payment thing you can do?


You've got to stump up in full when you fill in the application form. You will not have to do any of this until you have had at least one meeting with the LO. She will inform you of what's required then, for free. You can't go wrong. Sell some of your spiders to pay for it. You won't have room for all that stuff if you get a licence. Go on, be brave and apply. You know it makes sense.


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## Thrasops

To be honest, when I hear people complaining soooo much about applications for DWA it does make me wonder... it's hardly likely to be more than £1000 anywhere in the country and much more likely to be somewhere in the low hundreds... frankly, that's barely more than the cost of actually buying and equipping a single decent terrarium with all the related equipment... then factor in the cost of the serpent(s) as well (although many DWA tend to be relatively cheap, to be fair).

Let alone the costs involved with outfitting a dedicated secure room to keep said venomous snakes in!

I appreciate the rules may be different with spiders, but in the grand scheme of things a few hundred quid for an application and a few more for veterinary inspection wouldn't put me off if I had gone to all the effort of setting up a dedicated "hot" room and outfitting it with a few vivariums.

EDIT: And to keep the thread on topic I will offer my own (admittedly rather limited) opinion as to "best/easiest" venomous (DWA) snakes. Personally, you can't go far wrong in the husbandry department with _Vipera ammodytes_ or _Vipera latastei. _They're hardy, gorgeous and easy to breed (maybe too easy; a pair of _latastei_ I kept as a boy ended up sprogging unexpectedly... had to go through their enclosure with a fine-toothed comb to make sure I hadn't missed any...)

Regards,
Francis


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

terciopelo_dave said:


> Tim, I've been polite so far, but that's it. Saying that to Paul shows that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about with this situation, so seriously, back off now.
> And with regard to the topic of the thread, the way you talk just shows that you're only jealous of DWA holders because they've got something you want. If you can't afford to apply, tough. Stop whining about it. Not our problem.


Saying what to him? The same as an entire forum said to him when he put the thread down in the first place? Even the mods were sick of it to the point they altered the thread. And if you look at my first post in here you'll see it's nothing to do whether i can afford it or not. Thing is i could possibly afford it down these parts, but at the moment because of debt every penny i get is needed to clear up silly bills. 


So...


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

southwest vipers said:


> You've got to stump up in full when you fill in the application form. You will not have to do any of this until you have had at least one meeting with the LO. She will inform you of what's required then, for free. You can't go wrong. Sell some of your spiders to pay for it. You won't have room for all that stuff if you get a licence. Go on, be brave and apply. You know it makes sense.


I'm going to do it mate but i'm still unsure whether i'm moving soon, and that would mean getting it moved over etc, and when i've moved i'd probally have a spare room which will look so much better for the application


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## Lamprophis

First of all let's be realistic, no one I know personally keeps venomous snakes for credability reasons. I mean, people who seek thrills by looking to increase their "cred" amongst other enthusiasts generally don't have the balls let alone the experience to acquire a license to keep DWA, let alone the respect of other keepers. If this was the case then I'm pretty sure the local authority who issues the license would see straight through them and as a result - not issue the license in the first place. You have to prove to the license issuer that you are responsible, experienced and understand the demands of the animals you are looking to keep...


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## slippery42

terciopelo_dave said:


> Tim. If you can't afford to apply, tough. Stop whining about it. Not our problem.


You took the word right out of my mouth, Tim quit moaning who cares.


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## paulrimmer69

tim do me a favour and get your facts straight before you label me a stalker

a) i did not play the prank on james, yes i posted the link which fair enough i shouldnt have and yes i found it funny
b) i do not 'stalk' james, if you knew anything about what has gone on and the endless freind requests, messages etc some of us have had off him you would realise how far off the mark you are
im really not bothered about getting into slanging matches with keyboard warriors on here i have far more interesting things to do, like graeme said if you have a problem with dwa keepers then why bother posting? you are only going to make things harder for yourself if you do ever apply for a dwal in the future


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

paulrimmer69 said:


> tim do me a favour and get your facts straight before you label me a stalker
> 
> a) i did not play the prank on james, yes i posted the link which fair enough i shouldnt have and yes i found it funny
> b) i do not 'stalk' james, if you knew anything about what has gone on and the endless freind requests, messages etc some of us have had off him you would realise how far off the mark you are
> im really not bothered about getting into slanging matches with keyboard warriors on here i have far more interesting things to do, like graeme said if you have a problem with dwa keepers then why bother posting? you are only going to make things harder for yourself if you do ever apply for a dwal in the future


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_

Lol sorry i had too! I've not got anything agaisnt people in here, it just aint nice seeing people asking questions getting people piss taking because i'm sure there was a time in your lives when you knew very little about the animals you now keep..


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## leptophis

you seriously dont understand, you think some ofthe most prominent venomous people come on here without good reason to dislike james, i have nothing to do with whatever has happened but i know all the professionals have had numerous rude emails. yes your right we all learnt venomous skills from people, but i can tell you my mentors would have dumped me if i had dared to speak to them in that way,


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## Owzy

leptophis said:


> you seriously dont understand, you think some ofthe most prominent venomous people come on here without good reason to dislike james, i have nothing to do with whatever has happened but i know all the professionals have had numerous rude emails. yes your right we all learnt venomous skills from people, but i can tell you my mentors would have dumped me if i had dared to speak to them in that way,


Totally agree. A lot of the guys on here have been great with me, they have answered any sensible questions I have and have helped me out in many more ways. However if I acted like some people have on here I would not expect it at all. 

At the end of the day *they know more than most* but when they tell people something they don't like they get accused of being arrogant. I can't blame them for stop using.


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## Ratmandocymru

I for one would be sorry to see the most experienced keepers leave this forum although I do not own DWAL animals and don't intend to I find all of the information on here fascinating and very informative. I can understand the responces that the keepers are putting up, to ask an intelligently phrased question is one thing and would get the answers also formulated inteligently. To ask a question and then argue about the answer be 
cause it doesn't say what you wanted to hear just shows that you are too immature to own one if these beautiful and fascinating animals. I don't actually know anyone on here personally but all of the keepers on here all seem genuine and passionate about what they do and don't for one minute seem to me that they have their heads up their backsides all try to be as helpful as they can untl the thread starts filling up with immature people. Besides I wouldn't want to handle a venemous animal with
my head up my backside..... How would I see what i was doing :lol2::lol2:
sorry for such a long post I just wanted to put in my 2p


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## Bananas&Gravy

Well, talking completely hypothetically here, as a yellow annie is about the realistic limit of my ambitions. I'd have...

1. Green Mamba. They are so cool.
2. Inland Taipan. Just to say I've got the world's most venemous snake in my living room. (Sure someone will tell me that's not true).
3. Rattlers. I'd feed them to my two kings.


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## russm

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. The guy actually asked a serious question then as soon as he did he had some overated idiot jump on his back.
> 
> It's time you DWAL holders lightened up a little.


Well said!



AgkistrodonContortrix said:


> I'm new here, but this caught my attention.I see where you are coming from here, but in all fairness how is some one supposed to take a question like this seriously when the title is *'venomous snake as a PET'* ? I have my pets in my living room. My pets are not capable of killing me, or costing me a finger or more. A venomous snake of any species is, and an intelligent person would not have one in their living room, so they should not be called 'pets'. Sorry for my rant, but it's just the amount of questions I read on the internet, I am not surprised you guys would show your fustration out in humour at all, as this one is just silly.If the person does not want to keep venomous snakes as they stated in their first post, then try answering the question with this: 'It does not matter, as you do not need to know...'


What would you describe them as? Just keen to see what the guy should have said so that people would not pick on him. It seems to be that when anyone new asks a question it gets ripped to shreds for thechnical errors when it would be much easier just to answer the question as the guy has clearly stated he has no interest in keeping a hot. I bet if he had simply said what would be the best first hot to go for he would have got simple answers.


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## Tehanu

Just thought I'd contribute my perspective on part of this.

Lots of people get very hung up on the word "pet" being used. Who cares about the pedantic meaning of this word in reality?

I'd call any animal that I keep in my house that isn't directly intended as food for something else, that I'm excited about getting, that I can sit and admire; A Pet. 
That would include everything from my fruit beetles (I had some metallic purple ones, they were the best), mantids I kept previously(they all had names), the thousands of dubia roaches we breed (although I ought to call them "money" I'm quite fond of those little guys), Jays wonky rescued leopard gecko (even though I think leopard geckos look like plucked chicken skin...), our 12 snakes (yes I'd call my Boigas "pets" because they are to me) and the other 3 lizards, not forgetting our puffer fish edgar who you can't pet and you only see when you're in the kitchen... but he's still a pet.

I only have one actual reciprocal, pettable animal in my house; A house bunny. They are all pets to me, despite the fact that I virtually never handle any of my reptiles at all 



I tend to feel that those who protest a little too loudly about snakes which happen to be venomous never being termed "pets" despite the fact they are animals you are choosing to keep in your own home for your own pleasure... are, shall we say, trying to create an inflated sense of seriousness, elite and professionalism.

The animals I work with professionally are "specimens", the animals I keep as a luxury in my home are "pets" whether they are ever removed from their enclosures, touched by a bare hand, can do me serious damage or not.


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## Jb1432

Saedcantas said:


> Just thought I'd contribute my perspective on part of this.
> 
> Lots of people get very hung up on the word "pet" being used. Who cares about the pedantic meaning of this word in reality?
> 
> I'd call any animal that I keep in my house that isn't directly intended as food for something else, that I'm excited about getting, that I can sit and admire; A Pet.
> That would include everything from my fruit beetles (I had some metallic purple ones, they were the best), mantids I kept previously(they all had names), the thousands of dubia roaches we breed (although I ought to call them "money" I'm quite fond of those little guys), Jays wonky rescued leopard gecko (even though I think leopard geckos look like plucked chicken skin...), our 12 snakes (yes I'd call my Boigas "pets" because they are to me) and the other 3 lizards, not forgetting our puffer fish edgar who you can't pet and you only see when you're in the kitchen... but he's still a pet.
> 
> I only have one actual reciprocal, pettable animal in my house; A house bunny. They are all pets to me, despite the fact that I virtually never handle any of my reptiles at all
> 
> 
> 
> *I tend to feel that those who protest a little too loudly about snakes which happen to be venomous never being termed "pets" despite the fact they are animals you are choosing to keep in your own home for your own pleasure... are, shall we say, trying to create an inflated sense of seriousness, elite and professionalism.*
> 
> The animals I work with professionally are "specimens", the animals I keep as a luxury in my home are "pets" whether they are ever removed from their enclosures, touched by a bare hand, can do me serious damage or not.


How true : victory:


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## southpython

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Why can't any of you 'experts' give this guy a normal answer? I swear because you lot have a piece of paper you think your god and you have the right to mock others. .


AGREED :2thumb:


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## southpython

paulrimmer69 said:


> tim do me a favour and get your facts straight before you label me a stalker
> 
> a) i did not play the prank on james, yes i posted the link which fair enough i shouldnt have and yes i found it funny
> b) i do not 'stalk' james, if you knew anything about what has gone on and the endless freind requests, messages etc some of us have had off him you would realise how far off the mark you are
> im really not bothered about getting into slanging matches with keyboard warriors on here i have far more interesting things to do, like graeme said if you have a problem with dwa keepers then why bother posting? you are only going to make things harder for yourself if you do ever apply for a dwal in the future


You are infact Viperlover 2 on another forum, so yep your a stalker. :2thumb:

And lol at the above post :no1:


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## leecb0

southpython said:


> You are infact Viperlover 2 on another forum, so yep your a stalker. :2thumb:
> 
> And lol at the above post :no1:


so you must be stalking Paul then if that is true:whistling2:


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## SWMorelia

stuartdouglas said:


> *Got to agree with Graeme, Lee and Dave, this section of the forum is now taken over by retards who seem to like winding up genuine keepers with moronic posts and then self righteous ****wipes get all uppity when the genuine keepers get p'd off with them.
> *
> So far on here, I've had a 14 year old slagging me off, his dad offering me out, endless criticism from a 16 yr old non-keeper...you wonder why we get totally ****ed off with cretins making postslike that and you aren't much better Tim...............for getting all "high and mighty" personally I just CBA with sifting out the genuine from the walt's..........


I totally agree with the first part..... (I made a thread once about the DWA section being the victim of it's own success).
And as far as 14 try 17 and the rest was 2 yrs ago...... Can't we get past it?????:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## terciopelo_dave

SW-morelia said:


> I totally agree with the first part..... (I made a thread once about the DWA section being the victim of it's own success).
> And as far as 14 try 17 and the rest was 2 yrs ago...... Can't we get past it?????:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Mike, you've annoyed enough people on here to warrant being careful when you go to buy milk. DWA keepers have long memories.


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## elliot ness

terciopelo_dave said:


> Mike, you've annoyed enough people on here to warrant being careful when you go to buy milk. DWA keepers have long memories.


Will I get get threats like that if I take the piss ?
How's about,I have an animal with a 2" LS that is more venemous than most if not all of your DWA snakes here :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Muze

elliot ness said:


> Will I get get threats like that if I take the piss ?
> How's about,I have an animal with a 2" LS that is more venemous than most if not all of your DWA snakes here :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Paul dont even start with the guys in this section. 

You will find some of the most knowledgeable and experienced people on DWA in here and having a cheap pop isnt on.

These guys mainly deal with snakes, which drop for drop may not be as venomous as some of the inverts you keep, but i guarantee you their snakes will be faster,smarter, deliver alot more venom and require a vastly higher level of experience...you cant get away with just keeping them in a box.

So just leave it.


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## elliot ness

Hello Abi,
I don't think I called anyones experience into question.......just seems like the guy got theatened for saying something others may not have agreed with .
I may be wrong but that's how it sounded.


*Mike, you've annoyed enough people on here to warrant being careful when you go to buy milk. DWA keepers have long memories*.


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## SWMorelia

terciopelo_dave said:


> Mike, you've annoyed enough people on here to warrant being careful when you go to buy milk. DWA keepers have long memories.


Don't want to annoy you Dave, but I do have a couple of questions for you....
First... Are you speaking for all the DWAL holders as a spokesman????
And...... How come some of the most respected DWAL holders didn't mention this to me on Monday when they invited me to BBQ with them.... Though I must admit I didn't try to get any milk.... Lucky I didn't I guess....
I'll have to remember not to have an opinion in future so as I don't annoy all these people.....
PS Please make your threats plausible......


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## southpython

leecb0 said:


> so you must be stalking Paul then if that is true:whistling2:


How do i have to be stalking paul to see if its true.

His nose was brown from being up VL arse on rfuk and CBUK. Its not exactly hard to see.


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## paulrimmer69

southpython said:


> How do i have to be stalking paul to see if its true.
> 
> His nose was brown from being up VL arse on rfuk and CBUK. Its not exactly hard to see.


sorry, do i know you??????????


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## SNAKEWISPERA

SW-morelia said:


> Don't want to annoy you Dave, but I do have a couple of questions for you....
> First... Are you speaking for all the DWAL holders as a spokesman????
> And...... How come some of the most respected DWAL holders didn't mention this to me on Monday when they invited me to BBQ with them.... Though I must admit I didn't try to get any milk.... Lucky I didn't I guess....
> I'll have to remember not to have an opinion in future so as I don't annoy all these people.....
> PS Please make your threats plausible......



TBH Dad, I dont think hes kept venomous snakes that long... :whistling2:


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## wildlifewarrior

is there any need to be calling eachother out?

its like a playground on here at times.....who cares how long people have been keeping certain stuff....there snakes, there responsibility....


there used to be a thing called "reptile community".....now its more like a sorry state of who can slag who off the most.....more like jeremy kyle show than a passionate hobby


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## Tehanu

Christian got it in one, is there really any need?

Looks like this topic has outlived it's usefulness either way.

Lotte*


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