# Animal Transport Regs



## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

*This is taken from the DEFRA website. Note number 5 which states if you are taking an animal to or from a specialist show with the main purpose as pleasure i.e. not intending to make a profit you will not need a licence. :smile: 

2. Who does not need an Authorisation?​*You will not require an Authorisation for transporting animals if the journey is not in connection with an "economic activity". This will include journeys: 

• not in the course of business or trade;

• not for hire or reward;

• consisting of a single animal accompanied by a person who has responsibility for its welfare (or two animals accompanied by two people);

• where pet animals are accompanied by their owner on a private journey;

• where pet animals are taken to or from a specialist show or competition and the primary purpose is for pleasure rather than as part of a business;

• where horses and ponies are transported by an owner for the purpose of riding, showing or competing for pleasure e.g. show jumping, gymkhanas etc. However, a haulier *paid *to take such animals to shows etc would require an Authorisation;

• where individuals attending shows or competitions primarily for pleasure share the burden of transport e.g. petrol costs, but where there is no profit made by the individual undertaking the transport;

• undertaken by the armed forces or public services during the course of their official duties;

• involving the transportation of circus animals where the transport vehicle can be regarded as the animal’s housing.


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

The above info is correct, I posted something similar in the thread in classified funnily enough! : victory:

Though most people buying animals without the intention of selling them on wont need a license, anyone who is unsure may aswel get one.
I have applied for mine and the form is very simple, and the license is not charged for.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Yup it is easy I got mine too and i dont even need one! But if you did transport animals for people and charge them you do need a licence and preferably insurance.:smile:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

You have missed a document..................


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Which one?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Many people who keep animals as a hobby exhibit animals, occasionally
breed them (e.g. ‘cat fancy’ breeders) and sometimes sell or exchange surplus
animals. Frequently, these animals may be transported in the family car or even
on public transport. We have therefore concluded that these hobby breeders are
excluded from scope where their income source does not exceed the expenses
of the hobby. However, this exclusion does not apply to hobby farmers who deal
with farm livestock and poultry.​ 
So even if you do breed your snakes and sell them as long as your expenses outweigh the profit then you should still be ok.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

If you were offering a service to paying customers would you tell everyone how you do it so they can do it themselves?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

No but I am not offering a service to paying customers as I am not a business.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Good, we're clear then


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

i just feel that us "hobbyists" should be trying to help each other out after all this is what this forums is for.:smile:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I have no problem with helping other people when it has no negative effect on myself.
I guess hobbiests only stick together when it suits there own purposes, nothing suprising there really.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Its not surprising people would rather help each other out than use scare tactics to drum up business. Hobbyists are the majority on this forum and are always helping each other out nearly very post.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ianyork (Sep 11, 2006)

good advice, cheers for the info andy! and pendle in the other post!

be useful for me in the future when i make the journey


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## gaz (Oct 5, 2005)

of course you may still be asked to prove that its not economically motivated,i can see people having a fun time with customs after shows:lol2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

So can i Gaz. Having dealt with UK customs before i know for a fact that if you can not prove the animal is a pet then you are going to be struggling.

Out of interest, how do you prove a snake is a pet and not for the trade?

The responsibility does lie with the transporter rather than UKC&E, remember, they run to different rules than other authorities.

If warning people of the possible outcomes of not having the proper paperwork based on previous personal experience with the authorities involved and offering a service to remove the need for this paper work at short notice (less than 5 days) is scaremongering then, yes, i am guilty.

I am also guilty of charging the equivalent of £11.75 per animal to get them back to the UK. If you can find me ANYBODY who can do it cheaper than that then i'll suggest my customers go there instead.

As hobbiests are the majority on this forum it stands to reason this would be the first place i advertise. 
It is also evident that a great many hobbiests have not got the paperwork needed, would you rather they knew about it and got the animals they wanted OR would you rather have UKC&E confiscate their animals?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

No of couorse I dont want people to have their animals confiscated are you stupid?

This thread was started to make people aware they dont NEED a licence to transport their pets. It also was supposed to let people know that a licence is easy to aquire. 

Whether you want to charge people to bring back animals for them or offer advice to them on how to do it themselves then thats your choice as a business man but these forums are here so people can offer advice, not withhold it in the hope of making money. Which your comment _I* have no problem with helping other people when it has no negative effect on myself* _clearly implies.

Anyway this isn't your ad its a thread about the new transport regulations if you want to discuss your advert go and do it elsewhere.:Na_Na_Na_Na: 

As for proving the reptile is a pet and its not for business fair enough I dont know how customs work but maybe someone with experience could throw some light on the subject? Surely if you aren't a pet shop licence holder or a registered business that would count for something?


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

This thread was started because of my advert - a check on the times at which both were started will add credence to that.

However as this is a thread about the regulations and not my advert i would keep my advert well away from this topic. Unfortunately Pendlehog has chosen* not to move the relevant information into this topic so my advert still needs to be referenced as it contains information on the regulations.

On the note of proving one way or another. You can only hope that common sense will prevail. 
That said when a shipment of some 20 animals was confiscated because one animal was slightly larger than stated on the paperwork (not a required section to be filled out) it shows that common sense does not allways prevail. Yes, the paperwork was wrong but did the entire shipment need to be seized?

* Pendlehog may not have seen my request.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Maybe you could take proof of employment with you so you can show at least that you work full time in something that isnt animal related.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

gan1 said:


> Maybe you could take proof of employment with you so you can show at least that you work full time in something that isnt animal related.


Possibly but what proof? i am self-employed so dont really have any wage slips etc. It might be worth contacting Customs and Excise and asking them what sort of proof/paperwork they will look out for. Or like people have said apply for your licence. It is pretty easy to get.:smile:


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Jees....

First of all, its not customs that have the final say, its defra. Customs will, if needed, contact defra for advice, and act upon it.

Defra and customs have better things to do then check every snake and lizard that comes in.

If you are not bringing in any restricted (cites or dwa) animals, they hardly ever check them anyway. They will only take further action if they think its needed.

And yes, this IS personal experiance. I was asked at the tunnel once, have you any pets or animals on board. Yes I said, what they asked. Ended up having a breif chat about the regs and was thanked for helping them !!!

Having said that, there is nothing wrong in using a collection service what so ever, so I am not having a bash at that. If someone cant get to hamm then its a good service. 

Just think it should be clear that you dont always need a licence.

Tony


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## gaz (Oct 5, 2005)

Defra and customs have better things to do then check every snake and lizard that comes in.

i like this statement,checking everything that comes in and out is precisely the job customs are employed for.

and by the way i have had an entire shippment seized due to a slight cock up on the paperwork,believe me it doesnt take much and the lot is gone,while you try and sort it out they charge £100/animal for holding them,so even if you get them back you will have a hefty bill,and thats not counting the cost of the shippment and the tax and fees,all still payable,customs at the channel ports are well aware of hamm/houten shows so seems prudent to get licensed up.
regards gaz


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

All I can say is better safe than sorry - I found the form one of the easiest to fill in I've ever had to for a license, literally takes a few minutes, although do read the declarations carefully and give due thought to the things you are declaring, and possibly write down a livestock transportation policy that you could provide if asked.

I got the license for over 8 hours without any problems


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