# RADAR Leopard Gecko



## tonydavo

Sorry if this is all ready on the forum ( i couldnt find it if it is ) what is required to produce a RADAR (again if this question is to general then sorry) 
Can someone please give me an overview or guide me to a web page that will help me out
Thanx
Tony


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## tonkaz0

tonydavo said:


> Sorry if this is all ready on the forum ( i couldnt find it if it is ) what is required to produce a RADAR (again if this question is to general then sorry)
> Can someone please give me an overview or guide me to a web page that will help me out
> Thanx
> Tony


 
Radar is the Bell equivalent of a Red eyed Tremper Eclipse or Raptor! a bit harder to morph at the moment,unless your lucky to have full Radars!,
Im still waiting on my hets to give me one!
link to discription,
RADAR - Leopard Gecko Wiki


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## tonydavo

So................in a nut shell I need to get a bell albino male paired up wth my RAPTOR and APTOR females to get the bell and eclipse het into the offsping and then pair the male offspring with another RAPTOR or APTOR female to have a chance of a RADAR (I think !)


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## gazz

tonydavo said:


> So................in a nut shell I need to get a bell albino male paired up wth my RAPTOR and APTOR females to get the bell and eclipse het into the offsping and then pair the male offspring with another RAPTOR or APTOR female to have a chance of a RADAR (I think !)


You'd want a Balbino and a Eclipes(Proven non HET Talbino would be best), This will give you Normal HET Balbino,Eclipse offspring. Then pair the offspring together(One inbreeding want be a problem). 

FIRST.

Balbino normal X Eclipse pattternless reverse striped = .

Normal HET Balbino,Eclipse.
=======

THEN.

Normal HET Balbino,Eclipse X Normal HET Balbino,Eclipse = .

Normal Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Aberrant Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Hyper aberrant Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Striped Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Reverse striped Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Balbino normal Poss-HET Eclipse.
Balbino aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse.
Balbino hyper aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse.
Balbino striped Poss-HET Eclipse.
Balbino reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse.
Balbino patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse.
Eclipse normal Poss-HET Balbino.
Eclipse aberrant Poss-HET Balbino.
Eclipse hyper aberrant Poss-HET Balbino.
Eclipse striped Poss-HET Balbino.
Eclipse reverse striped Poss-HET Balbino.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Balbino.
RADAR types.
Balbino eclipse normal.
Balbino eclipse aberrant.
Balbino eclipse hyper aberrant.
Balbino eclipse striped.
Balbino eclipse reverse striped.
Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.


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## Laza

*Leo's*

Remember that both parents need to carry the recessive traits Tony. So you'll need to put the siblings back on each other.
Talking about Radar's, Looked on the Wikki link above, there's a pic of a Macsnow Radar Enigma. Which looks very similar to my own Macsnow Bells Enigma, even down to the eyes. Whats the chance of me stumbling on the Eclipse gene by chance not knowing his parent ancestry. I bred him last year by breeding Macsnowbells onto a Hypo Enigma: 


























Looked at his eyes compared to Radar pics and his eyes seem identicle.
Comments well welcome


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## gazz

Laza said:


> Remember that both parents need to carry the recessive traits Tony. So you'll need to put the siblings back on each other.
> Talking about Radar's, Looked on the Wikki link above, there's a pic of a Macsnow Radar Enigma. Which looks very similar to my own Macsnow Bells Enigma, even down to the eyes. Whats the chance of me stumbling on the Eclipse gene by chance not knowing his parent ancestry. I bred him last year by breeding Macsnowbells onto a Hypo Enigma:
> 
> image
> image
> image
> 
> Looked at his eyes compared to Radar pics and his eyes seem identicle.
> Comments well welcome


By the look of the nose of yours. I'd say yours has Tinted eyes(Ramdom iris black out trait), Not Eclipse eyes(Recessive iris black out trait). This trait is often seen in often seen in Blizzards and often Snows plus somtimes other morphs.


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## Laza

*Leo's*

Cheers for pissing on me fire Gazz!!! lol. Nought like wishfull thinking. Looked an almost identicle Leo.


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## nuttybabez

Gazz is good at that!


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## tonydavo

Laza said:


> Remember that both parents need to carry the recessive traits Tony. So you'll need to put the siblings back on each other.
> Talking about Radar's, Looked on the Wikki link above, there's a pic of a Macsnow Radar Enigma. Which looks very similar to my own Macsnow Bells Enigma, even down to the eyes. Whats the chance of me stumbling on the Eclipse gene by chance not knowing his parent ancestry. I bred him last year by breeding Macsnowbells onto a Hypo Enigma:
> 
> image
> image
> image
> 
> Looked at his eyes compared to Radar pics and his eyes seem identicle.
> Comments well welcome


Is this the egg brother of the male macksnow enigma (het bell), Larry ?


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## boywonder

the important thing to remember about radar bells is that they have absolutely NO TREMPER ALBINO blood in them, people who worked on the radar project went to great lengths to isolate the eclipse gene and ensure no tremper gene was present, otherwise when you breed your multi het normals together and hatch out albino eclipses how will you tell which are bell and which are tremper, i'm lucky enough to have 6 radar bells and 6 bells 100% het for radar, all adult and breeding very soon, i produced my first radar bell last season in may and hatched two more and a radar enigma later in the season its taken me a lot of work not to mention thousands and thousands of pounds to produce and aquire my bloodlines and the reason behind all this is to get rid of the tremper albino gene and only have the pure eclipse gene present, anyone thinking i'll just breed my raptor to my bell and then the offspring together needs to realise how complicated it would be to prove out the babies, and even if they end up being eclipse bells they could well be het tremper and then the next generation of offspring face all the same uncertainties as to which albino strain they are
if you want radar bells do it properly and isolate your genes, either that or buy some hets or visuals,


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## Laza

tonydavo said:


> Is this the egg brother of the male macksnow enigma (het bell), Larry ?


Yes mate.


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## tonkaz0

Now you can see why I didnt go into it in depth Tony, Its a long old process, LIke Ste said get yourself some Hets and go from there like I have otherwise it will take ages and loads of selective breeding and keeping records, and bye the way even hets wont come cheap either!, I know!, I talk from experience, good luck :2thumb:.

( Yes Sarah your right:lol2


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## boywonder

to make a radar from scratch you need to get an eclipse, and some trempers, breed the eclipse, a male would be best, to a good few trempers, and note the morphs produced, if one single tremper albino is produced then your male is het tremper, so you need to get that out of the offspring, get some het nothing animals which themselves have been proven out and breed your eclipse to them, then cross the offspring and test breed any eclipses that are produced, a very long process

this is a quote from jmg, the original creators of radar bells " *We started on this project in 2005 when we aquired an eclipse male. we bred him to a few possible het raptor females and we produced raptors and eclipses possible het tremper albino. We kept and raised up all of the eclipse possible het tremper albino males that we produced and we bred each male to two tremper albino females. Out of the eight eclipse males that we test bred to prove if they were het tremper albino or not only one male turned out to be not het tremper albino. We bred him to five bell albino females that are 0% het for any other recessive trait and we kept all of their baby's to breed to each other."*
not a one or two year project and that is why, as tony (tonkaz0) said, even hets aren't cheap, because of the effort put into the morph, even more effort than went into the raptor morph in fact, because of having to remove the unwanted tremper gene,
best to buy into the morph, which by the way is absolutely stunning in the flesh, if you've seen a super snowbells eyes imagine that on a gecko the colour of an orange


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## boywonder

Laza said:


> Remember that both parents need to carry the recessive traits Tony. So you'll need to put the siblings back on each other.
> Talking about Radar's, Looked on the Wikki link above, there's a pic of a Macsnow Radar Enigma. Which looks very similar to my own Macsnow Bells Enigma, even down to the eyes. Whats the chance of me stumbling on the Eclipse gene by chance not knowing his parent ancestry. I bred him last year by breeding Macsnowbells onto a Hypo Enigma:
> 
> image
> image
> image
> 
> Looked at his eyes compared to Radar pics and his eyes seem identicle.
> Comments well welcome


if you think your gecko is exhibiting the eclipse trait you should try and prove it out, it would be cool if it was a radar but you must realise its highly unlikely to be a true eclipse, and if it is then where did the genes come from? maybe the snowbell has some raptor in it and maybe the hypo enigma is het raptor too, that means your bell "eclipse" could be het tremper again muddying the gene pool, or it could just be the false eclipse gene that mack enigma's nearly always exhibit, you can't claim it without proving it out first,


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## Laza

*Leo's*

May give proving him out ago. Am i right to put him on an eclipse female to do this. I know the chances are slim but wont hurt to find out.


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## gazz

Laza said:


> May give proving him out ago. Am i right to put him on an eclipse female to do this. I know the chances are slim but wont hurt to find out.


First you've got to find a Eclipse that's not HET Talbino. "IF" yours is Eclipse(IMO not) you'll get 100%Eclipse offspring from breeding it to a Eclipse mate.


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## boywonder

i agree with gazz but if yours does prove out to be eclipse you still need to find out how it came to have eclipse in it, and my guess would be people carelessly breeding albino strains together, which is wrong, and what would you do with the offspring produced during the proving out, you couldn't sell bell tremper crosses without further muddying the gene pool in the uk so would you be prepaired to cull baby gecko's?
best thing to do would be to get a radar bell to prove it out, the worst you will make is bells 100% het eclipse


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## gazz

boywonder said:


> prepaired to cull baby gecko's?


:gasp:! Hope you mean cull as in remove from breeding program, And not cull as in :war:. Having Balbino/Talbino mix blood maybe make life a little more :bash:. But i deffo would never ask/tell someone to kill there Balbino/Talbino mix blood lines.


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## tonydavo

Im sure they would make lovely pets for someone :whistling2:


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## boywonder

we as breeders of leopard gecko morphs have a certain responsibility to our animals, breeding two strains of albino together does not affect the health or happiness of the gecko's produced but it makes the gene pool clouded, if people don't breed responsibly then eventually there will be nothing kept pure and the gene pool will be degraded, i would not advise others to even contemplate breeding any albino strains together due to the confusion which results from doing so, i was trying to get across the point that if you breed a raptor to a bell you get normal gecko's that are het two strains of albino, which is a bad idea and what would people thinking about trying to make radar bells do with 10-20 double albino het babies that should not be bred from, i for one couldn't sell them now i've realised the effect on the uk leopard gecko's shallow gene pool. it would be much better not to get into that situation at all, perhaps saying cull was wrong but i think breeding from these is also wrong, as i said, don't get into the position where you would have to remove any animal from the breeding projects you are working on, don't produce things that you wouldn't use yourself in your own lines,


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## gazz

boywonder said:


> we as breeders of leopard gecko morphs have a certain responsibility to our animals, breeding two strains of albino together does not affect the health or happiness of the gecko's produced but it makes the gene pool clouded, if people don't breed responsibly then eventually there will be nothing kept pure and the gene pool will be degraded, i would not advise others to even contemplate breeding any albino strains together due to the confusion which results from doing so, i was trying to get across the point that if you breed a raptor to a bell you get normal gecko's that are het two strains of albino, which is a bad idea and what would people thinking about trying to make radar bells do with 10-20 double albino het babies that should not be bred from, i for one couldn't sell them now i've realised the effect on the uk leopard gecko's shallow gene pool. it would be much better not to get into that situation at all, perhaps saying cull was wrong but i think breeding from these is also wrong, as i said, don't get into the position where you would have to remove any animal from the breeding projects you are working on, don't produce things that you wouldn't use yourself in your own lines,


Personally i don't see a big problem with crossing the albino strain 'I don't' but i don't have a problem with it. Fair enough if you don't know you morph then ID'ing the offspring apart can be tricky, But this is leo's where talking about not dogs. Example if you breed a British bull dog to a Border collie you lose both breeds in that cross. If you breed a Raptor to a Radar you get Eclipse HET Talbino,Balbino so you can take either route. The albino strains are recessive not polygenic so what's bred in can be bred out. Personally i'd love to see/own a proven double(HOM)Talbinobalbino leo. To see if there a mix of both the albino strains, Or is one strain more visually dominant than the other'etc. There's loads of double HET Talbino/Balbino in the uk anyway all over. And once Radars lose there *CA-CHING *valu, People will just breed them with what ever. And even before that they will just breed to any Eclipse even Raptor, They aren't going to risk the valu of a Radar to drop waiting to prove a Non HET Talbino Eclipes. So will, Many won't.


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## boywonder

gazz said:


> Personally i don't see a big problem with crossing the albino strain 'I don't' but i don't have a problem with it. Fair enough if you don't know you morph then ID'ing the offspring apart can be tricky, But this is leo's where talking about not dogs. Example if you breed a British bull dog to a Border collie you lose both breeds in that cross. If you breed a Raptor to a Radar you get Eclipse HET Talbino,Balbino so you can take either route. The albino strains are recessive not polygenic so what's bred in can be bred out. Personally i'd love to see/own a proven double(HOM)Talbinobalbino leo. To see if there a mix of both the albino strains, Or is one strain more visually dominant than the other'etc. There's loads of double HET Talbino/Balbino in the uk anyway all over. And once Radars lose there *CA-CHING *valu, People will just breed them with what ever. And even before that they will just breed to any Eclipse even Raptor, They aren't going to risk the valu of a Radar to drop waiting to prove a Non HET Talbino Eclipes. So will, Many won't.


and thats the attitude that makes people think its fine to breed trempers to bells, there is no need to do it,


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## nuttybabez

Gazz, I sold a super tangerine tremper albino het bell last year. She was bred by carisma and is now owned by LSReptiles.


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## Laza

boywonder said:


> i agree with gazz but if yours does prove out to be eclipse you still need to find out how it came to have eclipse in it, and my guess would be people carelessly breeding albino strains together, which is wrong, and what would you do with the offspring produced during the proving out, you couldn't sell bell tremper crosses without further muddying the gene pool in the uk so would you be prepaired to cull baby gecko's?
> best thing to do would be to get a radar bell to prove it out, the worst you will make is bells 100% het eclipse


I think i'll put Radars on hold until the prices come down abit. They're a stunning morph in their own right and wouldnt want to mix with Tremper gene's. By the time they come afordable i should have a good group or SSBells enigmas to have a play at.(Bells dreamsicles mmmm!)


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