# Tips for aggressive dogs



## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi. Recently rehomed an aggressive dog. Trying to get it sorted out. Does anyone have any experience of this please?

Please PM me if you can help at all.

Many thanks


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

might help if people know whether it's dog or human aggression. i'd personally consult a behaviourist.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Vet check to rule out health causes (pain or hormone imbalance etc), then behaviourist (the vet will recommend one). No-one can really help without seeing the dog and what is setting it off.

Good luck!


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Indeed you need to find where the problem lays. Is it territorial aggression, human aggressive, dog aggressive or just dominance.

Then you need to find the triggers. However if you handle this badly you could end up turning the dog in to a case needing euthanasia.

Marina


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

Seeking out a good trainer or behaviourist is the only way to approach this really.

If you want basic advice then we need to know more ie what type of aggression, what sets it off, what have you tried to sort the problem, what is the history of the dog etc oh, and breed could be useful!

If your not a trainer or behaviourist then you should seriously consider getting one, as an attempt to correct the behaviour could do more harm than good.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Not a problem you can sort 'online.'
Most likely cause will be fear BUT please phone:
Expert Dog Training & Obedience. Dog Trainers & Behaviour Therapists - Leeds


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Would not ever recommend Barkbusters. Heard nothing but bad about them.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Hearsay is a funny thing. Any training is only as good as the trainer - not the organisation.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

It is territorial aggresion. We only got her yesterday. We seem to have dominated her. The owner was giving her treats when she was being aggressive to shut her up. He was also using her as a guard dog. It was either us taking her or she would have been put down. 

We called a training place yesterday, but we are waiting for someone to get back to us. She is a staffy, about a year old. But she was snarling and biting yesterday. We were doing the pinning thing down thing from the The Dog Whisperer thing, - seems to have done great. She was aggressive whenever people went near her, so we got people to come up to her until she stopped growling and barking. She is very possessive. She gets angry when you take her toys or go near her bed, so we keep taking her stuff so she knows she can't do it, and we have been standing all over her bed so she can't take ownership. Today, she has just changed. No growling at all. She seems much more like a puppy.

Our plans are to not let her get her own way at all, get her spaded a.s.a.p., and sort out a behaviour specialist. But, in the meantime, we're on our own. We have done what we think is right, but we only know so much and haven't had experience of this before, which is why we thought we would ask for any tips that we hadn't thought of. 

Right now, she is curled up on her bed quite peaceful, - we're still worried though what's going to happen when someone comes to the door.

I think she could be a great dog. It really isn't her fault and I feel sorry for her. We're just trying to be sturn with her at the moment. She also keeps being submissive when we give her some attention today and rolls on her back with her feet up in the air, licks your hand etc.

Does anyone have any experience?

Thanks


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

I suppose one thing she keeps doing is rubbing her belly everywhere. Does anyone know if this is just scenting and should I stop her from doing this, in case it is just her being territorial again?

Thanks


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

We've also given her loads of exercise today and yesterday.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Oh dear....

TBH its going to be very difficult to find a decent behaviourist willing to deal with a Staffie who could possibly bite (Unfortunatly thats the way it is, not just with Staffies either)

I can have an ask around for you though, what part of Leeds are you in?

The only other thing I can think of is you contacting Mel and asking her if she would know of anyone up your way who can help.
Deed Not Breed - Home

I really wouldnt be looking at taking any advice about this dog from anyone who isnt a trained behaviourist and hasnt seen the dog in the flesh.


I suggest in the meantime you keep her muzzled and onlead at all times when she is out, get her a long line to go on.
And dont let her anywhere near your front door, if someone turns up shut her away and keep her and your visitors safe.
Over cautious yes, but you really need to be safe rather than sorry.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Firstly - if she's trained as a guard dog and her previous owner rewarded her aggression with treats (doh what a numb nuts!), she's obviously confused now you want her not to be one. Secondly, if you're not a dog behaviourist, and you've only had her a day, there's no way of saying whether she's "dominant", territorial (her territory has changed), etc - you need a behaviourist asap.

Do not under any circumstances do the pinning thing again - ever - full stop. You are not trained in dog behaviour, and even if you were, the only thing that's going to do is get you bitten.

Quick google search tells you why the alpha roll is wrong:

About.com Dogs - Dog Training - Using the Alpha Roll - Alpha Rolling Your Dog

Please - ignore anything you've seen on the telly and get that dog to a behaviourist asap, or to a rescue who can look after it safely.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> *Seeking out a good trainer or behaviourist is the only way to approach this really.*
> 
> If you want basic advice then we need to know more ie what type of aggression, what sets it off, what have you tried to sort the problem, what is the history of the dog etc oh, and breed could be useful!
> 
> *If your not a trainer or behaviourist then you should seriously consider getting one, as an attempt to correct the behaviour could do more harm than good.*


Excellent advice - get some professional help or you risk being prosecuted and the dog being put to sleep if the dog bites anyone. Don't try and fix this yourself - you need an expert.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. I'll have a look at those sites in a minute. We don't think she is dominant,as when she was barking and growling yesterday, she would back away right after she barked. At one point in the afternoon yesterday, she was aggressive towards my partner, and then came over to me wagging her tail. - I think she was asking if she was doing good, - obviously because she got treats before. We were only doing the pinning thing yesterday, when she was going for people, ...it stopped her from biting and it didn't hurt her. We haven't had to today. 

We haven't been using a mussle as yet. We have bought one in case things get out of hand and so we can take her to the vets to get her done without the vet having a chance of being bitten. We have taken her for 2 long walks, one today and one yesterday. Today, she totally ignored people and animals, and was quite good. She seems like a totally different dog today. What I'm mostly worried about at the moment, is people coming in the house. She doesn't even seem to have been housetrained, - she keeps peeing everywhere. - I'm not sure if this is just because she gets so easily exited though. 

I agree though, this type of dog needs profesional help. We called a professional place as soon as we got her home yesterday, but it took until mid-day today, when I was at work, for them to call me back. I was trying to call them back all afternoon, but they seem really busy. We will try the number given by yourselves, - thank you.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

PM'd you marthaMoo on the area we live.

Thanks


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## eightsnake (Jul 20, 2007)

My only advice would be to consistently reward good and wanted behaviours, make a real song and dance when she does what you want or behaves in a way you want. 
Ignore the bad/unwanted behaviours, dont even get upset about them as this is attention and you need to absolutely ignore them.

Believe me she will learn very quickly what gets her nice things like pats and cuddles or treats!
Giveher time to adjust, I would not recommend bombarding her with new stuff or people, she needs time to figure out where she is and whats going on.

Good luck, I am sure you can turn this dog around with time and patience (bags of patience!!)

Lorraine


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Firstly - if she's trained as a guard dog and her previous owner rewarded her aggression with treats (doh what a numb nuts!), she's obviously confused now you want her not to be one. Secondly, if you're not a dog behaviourist, and you've only had her a day, there's no way of saying whether she's "dominant", territorial (her territory has changed), etc - you need a behaviourist asap.
> 
> Do not under any circumstances do the pinning thing again - ever - full stop. You are not trained in dog behaviour, and even if you were, the only thing that's going to do is get you bitten.
> 
> ...


Great advice! You are asking for trouble pinning down a strange dog!


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Don't tie a pork chop to your jumper.

Don't laugh when it cant finish the crossword.

When asking the dog to do something, remember to add "please" at the end.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Quick google search tells you why the alpha roll is wrong:
> 
> About.com Dogs - Dog Training - Using the Alpha Roll - Alpha Rolling Your Dog


Thanks for the link. Just had a read through it, but it doesn't seem quite right. Dogs grab each other's neck until the other dog submits a lot. 

So far she has bitten my partner's dad's ankle when we were at the previous owner's house, which he just ignored. She just kept threatening us there. She has only bitten once since, which was yesterday, when she bit my hair when I was trying to put a dog collar on, so she was near to my face anyway. I think it was safer for me to pin her anyway.

I will read into other ways of doing this though, but she has definitely been allowed to get away with anything. I don't think the soft approach is going to help at the moment either, I think if we are more relaxed with her, she will think she can get away with anything.

We have been doing everything else that that site says also, about feeding yourself first, walking through doors first etc., but when a dog is stood there growling and barking at you in your own home, there's not much that you can do. I must say though, that I didn't hurt her.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

eightsnake said:


> My only advice would be to consistently reward good and wanted behaviours, make a real song and dance when she does what you want or behaves in a way you want.
> Ignore the bad/unwanted behaviours, dont even get upset about them as this is attention and you need to absolutely ignore them.
> 
> Believe me she will learn very quickly what gets her nice things like pats and cuddles or treats!
> ...


Thank you Lorraine

We have had chance to have a good play with her today. She hasn't growled. She has only barked twice also, which was great. We got her some toys, which we took off her for a while yesterday, because she was growling if we got too close to them. But today, we have been able to play with her toys with her. She seems to still be testing my partner though, trying to stare him out every now and then, but she stopped with me yesterday. One of the toys we got her, which she seems to love, is this tube thing, which you put a chew thing in and it's supposed to be difficult for the dog to get to it. She just takes the chew out, - she's really bright.

I feel so sorry for her. But she's seemed quite happy today. I asked the man we got her off the other day if she was good outside on the lead and he said yes, when I took her out a few weeks ago, she was very good. So, we don't think she got enough exercise. We are thinking this could have also been part of the problem. After her long walk yesterday, she calmed down a lot.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for everyones help anyway, - we're off in a minute, early day tomorrow. She's napping at the moment. I think I will call a load more professionals tomorrow, - try and get it sorted quicker, instead of waiting for this one to get back to us.

Thank you


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You can teach a dog that you're in charge without going through doors first. The alpha in a wolf pack doesn't go first, it gets one of the lesser ranking wolves to do it, as otherwise it's risking the alpha's life, you see? All that pack ranking stuff is rubbish - ignore it, and get someone who knows what they're doing to help out.

I hate to say it, but if your area is anything like mine, it's highly possible she's been used for more than just guarding. Dog fighting is huge round here, and dogs, especially bull breeds, are stolen regularly for it.

Dont risk yourself or your family any further, get this dog to someone who can train it or help it, IMO this is going to be more than a job for a new owner, it's for someone much more experienced.

Maybe things will work out - but maybe you or your family could be bitten, rather get her the help she needs, even if it means giving her up, than risk that. For her sake as well as yours (as when she does damage, you will have the dangerous dogs act coming down on you like a tonne of bricks, and she will be put to sleep).

Put that muzzle on her, and get her some help - asap - dont try any more home diagnosis or alpha rolls, unless you dont mind losing part of your body to her. That hair snap was probably meant for your face.


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

Was this dog aggressive in its previous home??

Just realised youve only got the dog on sunday, then made this post the very next day.

She could be pissed off for being turfed out of her old home, anxious of new people and enviroments, generally stressed, I would be. And it does seem there has been a fair improvement in the couple of days youve had her.

As well as finding a good trainer/behaviourist, give her some space and time. Pinning her to the floor may have worked for you that time, next time you may get badly bitten, but more importantly is the long term implications. You should be gaining her trust, and this wont.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> You can teach a dog that you're in charge without going through doors first. The alpha in a wolf pack doesn't go first, it gets one of the lesser ranking wolves to do it, as otherwise it's risking the alpha's life, you see? All that pack ranking stuff is rubbish - ignore it, and get someone who knows what they're doing to help out.
> 
> I hate to say it, but if your area is anything like mine, it's highly possible she's been used for more than just guarding. Dog fighting is huge round here, and dogs, especially bull breeds, are stolen regularly for it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Lisa

Thanks for the info. We've been reading books and the internet for info. on this type of dog, but we just keep finding the same type of info., so thanks for the going through doors info. You can't always trust what you read on the internet can you, which is why I thought I should ask for more advice from someone with more knowledge. 

We didn't get her from around here, we got her from another city, - really don't know the area well. But I don't think she would have been used for fighting, she has no marks on her, she's only 1 year old and she came from a loving family.

We haven't got any kiddies at the moment, it's just us two. If it was otherwise, we wouldn't have risked it. Our plan was just to have a go, get her spaded, get some help, and if we can't help then try and find someone to pass her onto. We couldn't just let her be put down, especially at 1 year old.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> Was this dog aggressive in its previous home??
> 
> Just realised youve only got the dog on sunday, then made this post the very next day.
> 
> ...


Hi rakpeterson

Yes, she was aggressive in her previous home, just not to the family, unless one of their kids teased her, then they got bit. She was aggressive towards anyone who came towards the garden or in the house, just seems very territorial. It's because of the aggressiveness that he had to get rid of her. The bloke said the people who had came to look at her before had came through the door, took one look and said no. 

Yes, we looked for help as soon as we got her. Starting making these posts because the professiona trainers seemed to be taking ages to get back to us. But we're going to make a load more calls today to get something sorted quicker. 

She was peeing at the place we got her from. From the site I saw this morning though, I really don't think she has been housetrained! We keep taking her out regularly as well. The bloke said he had been told a lot of it is due to her not being spayed, which is why we've decided to get her sorted a.s.a.p.

I think she may have bit into my hair before actually because she didn't trust me to be honest. I have been able to go near her collar since okay. She hasn't been aggressive today or yesterday, which I think is good. This morning she is doing great, apart from the mishap when I got up. She is playing with her toys like a puppy at the moment.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I dont know if it will be to do with her not being spayed, although bitches do often get hormonal after a season (Sky was a real cow as she came into season every 6-8 weeks, spaying sorted her out), the weeing in the house is probably one of the reasons they were rehoming her. People will say anything when they dont want an animal any more, which is why I tell folks to steer clear of the free ads and go straight to a rescue who've assessed them already.

Being a guard dog, she may have been an outside dog too - so she wont be house trained. Try letting her out every 30 mins, staying out there (even if its for a long time) until she does something, then praising her like mad when she gets it right. Take her out when she wakes up and after meals too as this is often the time that they do something. Then once she's dry doing it that way - increase the time in between trips out. She'll soon pick it up 

I'm not anywhere _near_ an expert on dog training (I know hardly anything), I really only ever learnt what I needed to know, but I did mod on a major dog board once and learnt that the pack ranking theory is really outdated, and whilst it may work for some dogs, it can make things worse for others - and if there's even a small risk of it getting worse, it's not something you want to try when she's already very confused and aggressive. Rather leave the diagnosis and training plans to those who've met her and know why she's doing this. If she's scared, reducing her status will only make things worse, and if she's super aggressive, rolling her will only provoke her and make her want to try harder to get her status back.

Good article on dominance:
Victoria Stilwell - View topic - Dominance: Dog V Human - taking over the world?


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> You can teach a dog that you're in charge without going through doors first. The alpha in a wolf pack doesn't go first, it gets one of the lesser ranking wolves to do it, as otherwise it's risking the alpha's life, you see? All that pack ranking stuff is rubbish - ignore it, and get someone who knows what they're doing to help out.


:lol2::lol2: Im afraid i wouldnt be taking any advice from this person. "All this pack ranking stuff is rubbish". To me youve just proved you dont know what your talking about


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

groovy chick said:


> :lol2::lol2: Im afraid i wouldnt be taking any advice from this person. "All this pack ranking stuff is rubbish". To me youve just proved you dont know what your talking about


With 11 dogs, I find the Pack method works for me. Imagine if my dogs sorted themselves into their own pack and I wasnt the Alpha. Very scary thought


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> I dont know if it will be to do with her not being spayed, although bitches do often get hormonal after a season (Sky was a real cow as she came into season every 6-8 weeks, spaying sorted her out), the weeing in the house is probably one of the reasons they were rehoming her. People will say anything when they dont want an animal any more, which is why I tell folks to steer clear of the free ads and go straight to a rescue who've assessed them already.
> 
> Being a guard dog, she may have been an outside dog too - so she wont be house trained. Try letting her out every 30 mins, staying out there (even if its for a long time) until she does something, then praising her like mad when she gets it right. Take her out when she wakes up and after meals too as this is often the time that they do something. Then once she's dry doing it that way - increase the time in between trips out. She'll soon pick it up
> 
> ...


Thank you Lisa

The man we got her off said he was told that she would calm down a bit if she got spayed. This is at the top of my list of things to do, as soon as possible. Funnily enough, I think you're right about the saying anything to get you to take a dog off them, - he said over the phone before I met her that she is a big softy, loves children, loves dogs, just a bit snappy sometimes, which I figured that these dogs are generally snappy when playing, so I asked him if this is what it was, and he was something like, 'well ....yeah'. I do believe his story though about the reason why he needed to get rid of her.

I don't think that it was just that she was scared why she bit me, I think she didn't trust me also, because she didn't know me. Since then, I have been able to mess about with her collar (making sure it's comfortable, etc.) and she hasn't tried anything. 

We have been praising her regularly anyway and ignoring her when she is naughty. Someone came to the door last night as well, and she didn't even bark once. 

I thought it wouldn't take too long to train her to stop this, as I believe this type of dog are quite intelligent, aren't they? But, I am just worried at the moment for the future, if she could just change back into it in say, a few years time when I'm not expecting it. - Does anyone know if this can happen? I feel I am able to trust her at the moment not to bite us, but I don't think I will trust her when my parents come over.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

It sounds as if she has shown negative behaviour and this has either been ignored or she has been rewarded for it. Bit like a naughty child.

I would highly recomend looking into Sarah Fisher
100 Ways to Train the Perfect Dog: Amazon.co.uk: Sarah Fisher, Marie Miller: Books
Tilley Farm UK TTEAM and TTOUCH Centre Home Page

And possibly Angela Stockdale, I have had no personal experience of her, but have a few friends that have and speak highly of her. She does workshops all over the country.
Angela Stockdale, Dog Aggression Specialist - Welcome


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> With 11 dogs, I find the Pack method works for me. Imagine if my dogs sorted themselves into their own pack and I wasnt the Alpha. Very scary thought


Thank you Shell, you sound like you know what you're doing. I have read that these dogs will run a mile as well if you give them an inch, which is why I'm trying not to be too soft with her, as well as the fact that she could do some damage.

I think she knows her place in our little pack now. Have you had any experience of dogs being aggressive towards strangers? She has stopped barking at people in the street, but I haven't had anyone come in the house since Sunday and she could easily go back into it then.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

marthaMoo said:


> It sounds as if she has shown negative behaviour and this has either been ignored or she has been rewarded for it. Bit like a naughty child.
> 
> I would highly recomend looking into Sarah Fisher
> 100 Ways to Train the Perfect Dog: Amazon.co.uk: Sarah Fisher, Marie Miller: Books
> ...


Thank you marthaMoo, I'll have a good read of those tonight. I agree, I think that is exactly what she is, - a naughty child, only she didn't know she was being naughty.


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

my staffy rubs her belly all over the floor she lays there with her back legs stretched out and still manages to get across the floor its quite funny she makes some awful sounds if i tell her off she does a growl and a bark if i go up to her and point she hides her face and makes a silly whining sound very commical 
good thing is, is that your staffy is only a yr old so can be rehibilitated easily


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

MELINDAGIBSON said:


> my staffy rubs her belly all over the floor she lays there with her back legs stretched out and still manages to get across the floor its quite funny she makes some awful sounds if i tell her off she does a growl and a bark if i go up to her and point she hides her face and makes a silly whining sound very commical
> good thing is, is that your staffy is only a yr old so can be rehibilitated easily


That is exactly what I thought about her being so young. 

I haven't stopped her rubbing herself yet, but wasn't sure if I should have. I think the whining noise is cute, she's been doing it when we sit there with her toy and don't give it to her. She sits there with her head tilted, with one ear up and one down, wagging her tail and whining. She's just like a cute puppy at the moment.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

groovy chick said:


> :lol2::lol2: Im afraid i wouldnt be taking any advice from this person. "All this pack ranking stuff is rubbish". To me youve just proved you dont know what your talking about


Go on then genius, share your knowledge?

Humans aren't dogs. Dogs aren't wolves. Basing a training theory on how wolves (not dogs) behave in CAPTIVITY is retarded.

Rolling, walking through doors, eating before your dog - does absolutely nothing other than confuse a dog further.

If you're such an amazing dog trainer - go ahead, teach us all oh wondrous one.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> Go on then genius, share your knowledge?
> 
> Humans aren't dogs. Dogs aren't wolves. Basing a training theory on how wolves (not dogs) behave in CAPTIVITY is retarded.
> 
> ...


so ALL dog trainers are wrong??????


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

spikes n scales said:


> Thank you Shell, you sound like you know what you're doing. I have read that these dogs will run a mile as well if you give them an inch, which is why I'm trying not to be too soft with her, as well as the fact that she could do some damage.
> 
> I think she knows her place in our little pack now. Have you had any experience of dogs being aggressive towards strangers? She has stopped barking at people in the street, but I haven't had anyone come in the house since Sunday and she could easily go back into it then.[/quote
> 
> We took a cross Staffy in when she was about 7 months old she had been badly socialised and neglected(left to fend for herself for days on end locked in the house to scavange in the rubbish) She was full of nervous aggression and you couldnt even handle her without her screaming and trying to bite. She hated the other dogs too and would fly at them for the slightest reason. She tried to eat the vets when we had her vaccinated and spayed I really wondered what I had taken on but 3 years later she is delightful and pulls herself off furniture and along the floor on her belly with tail wagging all the time. Its only this past year that she has stopped being extremely worried by strangers and if she isnt sure about them and mutters or barks we shut her in the kitchen. We can now handle her and put on collars and leads but she gets very stressed if you try to ever put anything in her ears or flea spray her so we have ways round this(Stronghold on neck) We could never have rolled Sadie without getting bitten so never tried. The problem with these sort of dogs is you get the trust then rehome them they tend to go back to the beginning as we found out.We found a perfect home for her with an experianced dog owner and told the truth about Sadies behaviour we delivered her to her home settled her in and left. The next day we got a phone call to say Sadie was being aggressive and she couldnt cope, we went and picked her up the same morning. What a pitiful sight she was so scared and shaking. She happily jumped into the car and here shes stayed ever since how could we ever put her through that again. Try not to push your girl to do to much to soon. We found by ignoring barking at strangers and putting her in another room she soon learnt to shut up, now most of the time she greets them like long lost friends. She has now become very submissive and even smiles while pulling herself about on her belly and loves going for walks. I think the key is patience with animals like this but before you get a behaviourist I would let her settle in a bit and bond with you


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

yeah it probably would be better to lett her settle in first she is probably trying to find out whos boss lol


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> Go on then genius, share your knowledge?
> 
> Humans aren't dogs. Dogs aren't wolves. Basing a training theory on how wolves (not dogs) behave in CAPTIVITY is retarded.
> 
> ...


:lol2::lol2: I dont remember saying i was an expert in dog training.Im well aware of the fact that dogs arent humans. Infact thats one of the Main problems you get with dogs these days, people try to humanise them too much.

So i take it you are saying the worlds best dog trainers, behavourists and psychologists are wrong then because they all work with packs.

Who mentioned wolves??


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

You obviously felt she needed a muzzle so why not use it. No point waiting until she hurts someone then decide to use it. By then you could have her being pts and you being done under the dangerous dogs act. Get the flipping muzzle on her "then" as you trust her reduce the time she has it on. You can not do it the other way round. If you only put it on her when people come in you will teach her it is their fault and the problem gets worse. Please do NOT alpha roll her again. You will only be putting yourself at serious risk and lower her trust in you. You may get away with it so many times but one time she will be ready for you. Then because of the having to get down to her level to do it chances are it will be your face she gets and to be honest it would be your own fault.

I totally agree with rewarding the behaviours you want and ignoring the unwanted ones. Like you have done with the toys. As long as she plays nice you play with them with her. When she starts to grumble they are taken away. 

Sounds to me like she is fear aggressive. If it is then it should lessen as she trusts you as long as she isn't put in a position when she is scared.


Edited to add: Sometimes when a dog is insecure getting them neutered makes it worse. Personally I would wait until she is more confident before taking her hormones away. For the peeing in the house as already said go back to basics (out every half hour. Loads of praise and rewards for going and when she has an accident totally ignore the fact she has done it in the wrong place and clean it up as if you had just spilt water)


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

groovy chick I think you will find not all so called experts in the field are right. Those that dont use positive train methods in my book arent. As said before in other threads bullying and dominance can make allot of dogs do quite a few things, not all good, some infact make the dog worse. Positive training is the only way to go for a healthy, happy, well rounded dog.

As I said (like a couple other people did) in the begining of this thread it would be very silly for this person to take any advice from anyone who isnt qualified (by that I mean a qualified person who can help with positive training methods) and hasnt seen the dog in the flesh.

The owner of the dog is aware of this and just needs to be steared away from certain training methods that may not help this dog improve and may cause more problems.

The most important thing is this dog and the people around her are kept safe at all times.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

When we took Sadie we couldnt get near enough to put a muzzle on her, you could stroke her and feed her without a problem but no way could you restrain her she would scream snap and run and hide. I think most trainers have some positive methods but not all of them get it right all the time. Personally I would give this bitch some space then get professional help if its felt she needs it. Shes only been with the new owner a few days and everything is strange for her at the minute. I agree with Martha that without someone seeing the dog in the flesh it is very hard to diagnose what the problem is and what the solution should be


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> When we took Sadie we couldnt get near enough to put a muzzle on her, you could stroke her and feed her without a problem but no way could you restrain her she would scream snap and run and hide. I think most trainers have some positive methods but not all of them get it right all the time. Personally I would give this bitch some space then get professional help if its felt she needs it. Shes only been with the new owner a few days and everything is strange for her at the minute. I agree with Martha that without someone seeing the dog in the flesh it is very hard to diagnose what the problem is and what the solution should be


Sounds like they can get close enough to her though. She appears to be really concerned about her biteing people coming to the house. If they are concerned the dog will pick up it and would be more likely to bite. If they had her muzzled then they could relax and she would be more relaxed too. Why wait until someone gets bitten before useing it.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fuzzielady said:


> Sounds like they can get close enough to her though. She appears to be really concerned about her biteing people coming to the house. If they are concerned the dog will pick up it and would be more likely to bite. If they had her muzzled then they could relax and she would be more relaxed too. Why wait until someone gets bitten before useing it.


Yes that is true: victory:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

TBH though how many of you let your dog run to the door when someone is there?

None of mine do because I know a couple of them would take that person out..lol

Plus allot of dog attacks have involved dogs getting out when the owner opens the door, or the dog attaks the person when the door is opened.

Simple sollution, dont allow your dogs to answer the door with you, the person the other side is there to see you not your dogs..lol

As I said it will be easier for the owner just to shut her in another room, which will mean she wont have to be muzzled. If she cant wear a muzzle out I would advise a head collar so that the owner has control over her head. And then work from there slowly introducing her to people as and when the time comes.

Yes she does need time to chill and settle but everyone has to be in full control of there dogs outside and in when other people are around and remove the risk if its there untill the risk is gone.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

has he actually bitten anyone badly? are you sure it's not just puppy biting? i know he shouldn't still be doing it but if the previous owner hasn't taught him not to bite he won't know any different. just a thought ?


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

I don't think the problem is someone at the door but people coming into the house. Personally I would shut her away or behind a gate. While banning anyone from looking/watching her. That way she won't feel the need to tell them to erm.......go away. I think the original poster is actually trying to do to much with her and doesn't have enough experience to be able to help her. 

I never answer the door with any of my dogs. I really don't think people would be happy to see 4 rotties greeting them. I would never put my dogs in that position. 

To OP: It's fair enough saying you want to try and if you can't sort it you will pass her to someone that can. By then it could be too late and by trying to fix her problems you could make them 100 times worse. You really need to be able to read a dogs body language before modifying any behaviour. We can all give advice but without seeing her as she is doing the things she does we can't really help. That is why I have only given advice on housetraining and that you would be better useing the muzzle. At least muzzled you know she is safe and so are visitors. A muzzle isn't an easy solution. It just allows you to work on problems safely. You really need professional help to sort these problems.


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> groovy chick I think you will find not all so called experts in the field are right. Those that dont use positive train methods in my book arent. As said before in other threads bullying and dominance can make allot of dogs do quite a few things, not all good, some infact make the dog worse. Positive training is the only way to go for a healthy, happy, well rounded dog.
> 
> As I said (like a couple other people did) in the begining of this thread it would be very silly for this person to take any advice from anyone who isnt qualified (by that I mean a qualified person who can help with positive training methods) and hasnt seen the dog in the flesh.
> 
> ...


 
Well i never read anything in Jan Fennells book which i would class as bullying but she talks an awful lot about dog packs.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

When we first got her home, we wouldn't have been able to put a mussle on her, but we could now, but there doesn't seem any need to now. We got the mussle the day we got her, in case we couldn't calm her down. Until today, we kept her choker on, which the previous owner used, to help us restrain her if need be, but we haven't needed to since that first day.

No, she hasn't bitten anyone seriously. She was nibbling my partner's dad's ankle and just pulled a bit of my hair out. It wasn't just puppy biting though, it was accompanied by growling and snarling, the type you get with aggressive dogs.

We tend to know when someone is visiting before they get here, so there will be enough time to get her in a safe place etc. Today, she has been submissive still and has been trying to lick our faces a lot. As she is right now, I trust her, my concern is just visitors. 

I agree, I haven't got enough experience with this, but I really don't think there has been a problem with her aggressiveness since Sunday. 

Today, she has been great. During her walk, she listened to my partner's instructions and didn't pay attention to anyone. There were also some dogs, including one that barked at her, and she looked, but carried on walking and didn't bark once.

She lets us take her toys when we want as well, so we have been able to play with her. We really haven't had any problems with her since Sunday. I think she has accepted us as her new owners, but I just think the question is whether she will change back when people come in.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> When we took Sadie we couldnt get near enough to put a muzzle on her, you could stroke her and feed her without a problem but no way could you restrain her she would scream snap and run and hide. I think most trainers have some positive methods but not all of them get it right all the time. Personally I would give this bitch some space then get professional help if its felt she needs it. Shes only been with the new owner a few days and everything is strange for her at the minute. I agree with Martha that without someone seeing the dog in the flesh it is very hard to diagnose what the problem is and what the solution should be


Thank you Shell, she has definitely changed. I think she just thought that it was her job.


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## Snuggles (Sep 18, 2007)

If your still looking for a trainer, I can highly reccomend Angela at Tailwaggers. She's happy to take on the challenges and uses positive, reward based training. She's worked wonders with some of my loons.

http://www.tailwaggerclub.com/


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> We took a cross Staffy in when she was about 7 months old she had been badly socialised and neglected(left to fend for herself for days on end locked in the house to scavange in the rubbish) She was full of nervous aggression and you couldnt even handle her without her screaming and trying to bite. She hated the other dogs too and would fly at them for the slightest reason. She tried to eat the vets when we had her vaccinated and spayed I really wondered what I had taken on but 3 years later she is delightful and pulls herself off furniture and along the floor on her belly with tail wagging all the time. Its only this past year that she has stopped being extremely worried by strangers and if she isnt sure about them and mutters or barks we shut her in the kitchen. We can now handle her and put on collars and leads but she gets very stressed if you try to ever put anything in her ears or flea spray her so we have ways round this(Stronghold on neck) We could never have rolled Sadie without getting bitten so never tried. The problem with these sort of dogs is you get the trust then rehome them they tend to go back to the beginning as we found out.We found a perfect home for her with an experianced dog owner and told the truth about Sadies behaviour we delivered her to her home settled her in and left. The next day we got a phone call to say Sadie was being aggressive and she couldnt cope, we went and picked her up the same morning. What a pitiful sight she was so scared and shaking. She happily jumped into the car and here shes stayed ever since how could we ever put her through that again. Try not to push your girl to do to much to soon. We found by ignoring barking at strangers and putting her in another room she soon learnt to shut up, now most of the time she greets them like long lost friends. She has now become very submissive and even smiles while pulling herself about on her belly and loves going for walks. I think the key is patience with animals like this but before you get a behaviourist I would let her settle in a bit and bond with you


Luckily, she seemed to be calmer with me than other's as soon as we got her out the previous owner's house. She also sat by the side of me on the ride home, but I tried stroking her to calm her down, after a few strokes, she was growling and threatening me ...not good. I stopped stroking her, but told her no whenever she growled, which seemed to help. She also kept trying to put her head over me and lean over me, which I understand is supposed to be about dominating, so i kept stopping her, she stopped doing that on the way home also. The worst bit was when we got her home, she wasn't going for me, I had her on her lead, holding her back from her going from everyone else.
She was already calm by the end of the day, but when we got up the next morning, she was brilliant, all playful. She just seemed to have a quick change.

I wasn't sure about shutting her in another room though, because her previous owner used to do that. But I know I may still need to do this.

Thank you


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Snuggles said:


> If your still looking for a trainer, I can highly reccomend Angela at Tailwaggers. She's happy to take on the challenges and uses positive, reward based training. She's worked wonders with some of my loons.
> 
> http://www.tailwaggerclub.com/


Thank you very much. I was worried I wouldn't find one. I'll give her a go.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Brilliant news. Just hope it continues to improve. Could you not just shut her away when people are coming? Either that or put a stairgate up. At least with a stairgate you can see how she is settling once people are in and sitting down. Both have good and bad points but both will keep her and your visitors safe.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

OP you must be nuts. :lol2: 
Bad enough either

(1) Having a dog that ends up with these problems (not that that should actually happen)
(2) Getting a new dog then discovering these problems

But you went out and got a dog knowing it had these problems. Not only that but you knew you didn't have the knowledge to deal with it on your own (not meant in a bad way)

I really really hope everything works out for you and your wee girl. If you get in touch with the person on the link I don't see why it shouldn't. I think you might just be nuts enough to pull it off. Please stick with reward based training rather than the alternative though. Staffies are great people orientated dogs so if you decides you are to be trusted and respected she should follow you to the end of the world if you wanted her too.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> Brilliant news. Just hope it continues to improve. Could you not just shut her away when people are coming? Either that or put a stairgate up. At least with a stairgate you can see how she is settling once people are in and sitting down. Both have good and bad points but both will keep her and your visitors safe.


Well, I was thinking, because I know she's not likely to go for me, and that I can restrain her okay on her cholker, I would keep the cholker on while people come in and give her a quick tug if she starts barking. Luckily, although she barked at everyone coming to the door where she used to live, whenever we come through the door, she just wags her tail and greets us and there is a hallway, so she can't see who it is. I think it will help that we have a doorbell, because I think her cue to bark indoors was a knock on the door, going from our visit to the previous owner's home. Or I suppose I could shut her away in a room, wait while everyone is settled and then walk her in on a leash and if she starts growling then take her straight back out, which thinking about it, this might be better. We are expecting my parents in a few days. My dad isn't worried about the dog, so I think I will introduce him first. We won't let any kiddies come over for some time, or if they do, then she will definitely be out of the room.

I have just remembered, when we went to visit her initially, I let her sniff my hand and she did actually lick it and walked away. Also, when she bit my partner's ankle, she did actually threaten beforehand with the lifting her leg thing. So I don't think she is unpredictable, which I should be happy about I suppose.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> OP you must be nuts. :lol2:
> Bad enough either
> 
> (1) Having a dog that ends up with these problems (not that that should actually happen)
> ...


 
lol. Maybe so.

What happened was, we saw a confused puppy who needed a home or she would have been put down. The bloke said he couldn't get her into any of the dogs homes because they were all full. Luckily, we're not in a difficult situation, such as having children etc. We had like a ten minute chat with ourselves before going back in and getting the dog. We just thought about whether we could handle her and tried planning out what we were going to do (includes getting help from as many sources as possible). 

We also understand that she is really young, so it would be easier to sort her out and that staffies are bright dogs so she should learn quick. She is so playful today. So cute! Anyway, we still have an anaconda to tame yet, ...1 down.

Oh, and we will be getting in touch with the person on the link tomorrow, thank you. I'll get some pics up of her in a minute.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Here she is yesterday, being nice.










Sorry, the picture is a bit dark.

My partner had just called her to look at the camera phone, which is why she is looking like that.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

spikes n scales said:


> Here she is yesterday, being nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awe she is just a baby. Not that you should treat her as such:lol2:

The way I look at it is "the more work you have to put, in the better the bond is at the end of it" you also get the best dog in the world out of it.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> Awe she is just a baby. Not that you should treat her as such:lol2:
> 
> The way I look at it is "the more work you have to put, in the better the bond is at the end of it" you also get the best dog in the world out of it.


Thank you fuzzielady

That's what I was hoping. I don't mind putting in the effort and I was hoping that I could change her permanently. The only things she is doing bad at the moment is ripping things up a bit, like loo roll, just like a puppy. It's like there are 2 sides of her and I hope not to see that side again. Yesterday and this morning though, I heard her whimper a bit though when she thought I had left the house, she doesn't seem to like being on her own, but I suppose that's all puppies isn't it.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Shes beautiful. Is she a full staff its hard to tell on the pic, its just Ive never seen one with spotty legs. Im sure all your hard work will pay off you sound like you are doing a grand job


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Shes beautiful. Is she a full staff its hard to tell on the pic, its just Ive never seen one with spotty legs. Im sure all your hard work will pay off you sound like you are doing a grand job


No, she's a staffy cross. We've been trying to guess wht the cross could be. She is built like a staffy with the staffy head shape. She has a brindle coat on her back, but has spots on her legs and nose. Anyone got any ideas?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Possibly a springer spaniel?? There seems to be a few of this cross about lately. She gorgeous whatever she is


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, she does look like a springer spaniel, thanks. I'm not great with these different breed types, but googled a springer spaniel and she really does look similar.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If she is that cross it will make her an easier dog to sort:2thumb:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

spikes n scales said:


> Thank you fuzzielady
> 
> That's what I was hoping. I don't mind putting in the effort and I was hoping that I could change her permanently. The only things she is doing bad at the moment is ripping things up a bit, like loo roll, just like a puppy. It's like there are 2 sides of her and I hope not to see that side again. Yesterday and this morning though, I heard her whimper a bit though when she thought I had left the house, she doesn't seem to like being on her own, but I suppose that's all puppies isn't it.


 
Sounds like she has learnt to behave like a wayward puppy to get attention. Have you considered crate training her. That way you can leave her without her destroying you house. Also appears she has separation anxiety. Shut doors behind you as you go about the house. Don't talk to her or give her eye contact either before you leave the room or when you return. When you leave the house use a 5 minute rule ie Ignore (don't talk to her or give eye contact) her for 5 minutes before you leave and 5 minutes after you return. Once she gets used to you coming and going she should settle. I also mentioned a crate as some dogs with SA chew as an outlet for their anxiety.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> Sounds like she has learnt to behave like a wayward puppy to get attention. Have you considered crate training her. That way you can leave her without her destroying you house. Also appears she has separation anxiety. Shut doors behind you as you go about the house. Don't talk to her or give her eye contact either before you leave the room or when you return. When you leave the house use a 5 minute rule ie Ignore (don't talk to her or give eye contact) her for 5 minutes before you leave and 5 minutes after you return. Once she gets used to you coming and going she should settle. I also mentioned a crate as some dogs with SA chew as an outlet for their anxiety.


I have heard of crate training, but don't know much about it. She hasn't been too bad, I did expect her to ruin a lot more than a bit of loo roll. Before we got her, we had a read up on staffies and read that they like lots of chewy toys, so we have a few for her, one in particular she chews on loads. 

Thanks for the info. on separation anxiety, we will try using that. She sometimes whimpers if just one of us goes out the room as well though, even if it's just for a few seconds.

Has anyone tried using one of those dog jackets? She is getting a walk (including a good run) every day for about an hour, but she doesn't get tired easily. We were wondering if these weighted jackets are any good?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

spikes n scales said:


> I have heard of crate training, but don't know much about it. She hasn't been too bad, I did expect her to ruin a lot more than a bit of loo roll. Before we got her, we had a read up on staffies and read that they like lots of chewy toys, so we have a few for her, one in particular she chews on loads.
> 
> Thanks for the info. on separation anxiety, we will try using that. She sometimes whimpers if just one of us goes out the room as well though, even if it's just for a few seconds.
> 
> Has anyone tried using one of those dog jackets? She is getting a walk (including a good run) every day for about an hour, but she doesn't get tired easily. We were wondering if these weighted jackets are any good?


It sounds like she needs needs more mental stimulation, training and retrieving are a good start


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

spikes n scales said:


> I have heard of crate training, but don't know much about it.
> 
> 
> She sometimes whimpers if just one of us goes out the room as well though, even if it's just for a few seconds.
> ...


 
Using a crate when you were out, or when she was unsupervised, would mean you didn't come in stressed wondering (or seeing) what she had done while you were out. It doesn't matter how big a smile you pain on your face or how happy you sound. They can sense that you are anxious/annoyed/angry in fact they know how you feel even when you don't:lol2: They don't understand it so become more anxious, and chew more, and cry more. A crate means you have none of that. They also like the security of a crate. Most use them as a bed even when you are in. 

She could be whimpering because there is safety in numbers, again a sign of insecurity. Couldn't say 100% without actually seeing her when she does it.

I don't think one of they jackets would do any good. Staffies will keep going and going. Even if you physically tire them they will still try to keep going. My friend can't take her older staffy out when she is playing with a ball with her other dogs. The staffy keeps going and going to the point that she is crawling.

As already she needs more mental stimulation. Why not invest in a clicker and a good clicker training book. Even take her back to basics. Sit, down, wait etc. You could teach her to do loads of things as long as you keep it short and fun. Thinking drains the mind and it is the mind that keeps them going and going.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> With 11 dogs, I find the Pack method works for me. Imagine if my dogs sorted themselves into their own pack and I wasnt the Alpha. Very scary thought


 I fail to understand how instinct can become 'outdated'. Even domesticated dogs have all the instincts they originated with and pack heirachy is instinctual. Even Ms Stillwell tells owners to eat before their dogs, not allow dogs up on firniture, not let dogs out of doors before them. Loads of times she demonstrates how to pretend to eat from the dog's dish before placing it on the ground and explains this is because the 'pack leader eats first'.

I can manage 18 dogs only because I understand pack heirachy and how it works. It isn't about hurling dogs to the ground etc nor violence. It's way more subtle than that but it's how people imagine it should be.
To the OP. I would not necessarily have held your new dog down. What you have completely failed to understand is that you are strangers to your dog. Why should she trust you? Would you go up to any strange dog in the street and start petting it and being familiar with it? If not, why not? You have done exactly that with this dog who is a strange dog. You may know that she is your dog, but how the heck is she to know this yet? To her, she doesn't belong with you, she is a member of another pack(family). You are random strangers who have taken her from her family into a strange house and are now taking liberties with her without allowing her time to get to know you and trust you.
Give her time, get her into a routine, walk her often and show her that she can trust you. Do basic things like eating first, not letting her on your bed, not letting her pull on the lead, but do it gently. And after a month or so, she will start to feel at home with you. It can take up to 6 months before a rescue dog feels that he is part of your household, that you are his people and this is hos home. Until then, you are just strangers and to be frank, I doubt any of my own dogs would be 100% happy with strangers laying hands on them if I wasn't around to make them feel safe and happy.


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## kaybee (Feb 10, 2009)

Any staffs that I have come into contact with have been muzzled. When I say into contact with, I mean the ones walking down the street, being walked by what I can only describe as 'hoodies'.When I see these dogs and their owners, I automaticaly think "Hmm, there's a fighting dog." Not a sweeping generalization because you can see from the condition of some of them that that is exactly what they are used for.

They're a breed I'd stay clear of to be honest. Parents couldn't risk it with all the kids at home..

Could there be a chance your dog was maybe used for fighting too? That could make them agressive.. I can only repeat what others have said and say, go to an expert. I wouldn't know where to start with staffs. Hope you get it sorted though!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

kaybee said:


> Any staffs that I have come into contact with have been muzzled. When I say into contact with, I mean the ones walking down the street, being walked by what I can only describe as 'hoodies'.When I see these dogs and their owners, I automaticaly think "Hmm, there's a fighting dog." Not a sweeping generalization because you can see from the condition of some of them that that is exactly what they are used for.
> 
> They're a breed I'd stay clear of to be honest. Parents couldn't risk it with all the kids at home..
> 
> Could there be a chance your dog was maybe used for fighting too? That could make them agressive.. I can only repeat what others have said and say, go to an expert. I wouldn't know where to start with staffs. Hope you get it sorted though!



He has already explained that there are no scars or wounds that indicate fighting..and i'm sorry but your comment is very wrong "They're a breed I'd stay clear of to be honest. Parents couldn't risk it with all th kids at home.."
Staffies used to be commonly known as the nanny dog...because they're so wonderful with children. That's not to say i'd leave them alone witha child. But I wouldn't leave ANY dog alone with a child. But it is exactley this attitude paired with frigging numpties breeding them that means so many are in rescue and being destroyed daily. In the right hands like any dogs they're amazing.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> He has already explained that there are no scars or wounds that indicate fighting..and i'm sorry but your comment is very wrong "They're a breed I'd stay clear of to be honest. Parents couldn't risk it with all th kids at home.."
> Staffies used to be commonly known as the nanny dog...because they're so wonderful with children. That's not to say i'd leave them alone witha child. But I wouldn't leave ANY dog alone with a child. But it is exactley this attitude paired with frigging numpties breeding them that means so many are in rescue and being destroyed daily. In the right hands like any dogs they're amazing.


 
Totally agree Katie, anf if you look at the pic she actually looks to be crossed with a Springer or similar anyway. Most Staffs I meet are actually bouncy friendly dogs that adore children. Its frightening how many people associate them with being nasty dogs


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## kaybee (Feb 10, 2009)

That's just my own opinion... I personally wouldn't want to keep one, I know my parents wouldn't take one because of the kids. They don't even like boxers. A staff in my hometown had to be put down because it bit someone and I guess that just soured everyone.

It might be a bad attitude towards the dog, but in the area I'm living in now.. they seem to be majority fighting dogs. I'm sure there are staff owners here that absolutely adore their dogs but some people don't. They're used as muscle is all, and that is wrong.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

kaybee said:


> That's just my own opinion... I personally wouldn't want to keep one, I know my parents wouldn't take one because of the kids. They don't even like boxers. A staff in my hometown had to be put down because it bit someone and I guess that just soured everyone.
> 
> It might be a bad attitude towards the dog, but in the area I'm living in now.. they seem to be majority fighting dogs. I'm sure there are staff owners here that absolutely adore their dogs but some people don't. They're used as muscle is all, and that is wrong.



So are GSD's, Rottys, Mal's and x's, Akita's etc etc. The list is endless. There will always be aholes around. But staffs really are amazing little dogs. Well i say little they have huge personalities.

Last year it was all over the news everytime a Rotty bit someone. This time it's staffys. I love how the smaller attacks don't get reported. Some of the jack russels and yorkshire terriers i've seen have been attrocious but as they're tiny they get away with it and have no stigma attatched.


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

kaybee said:


> That's just my own opinion... I personally wouldn't want to keep one, I know my parents wouldn't take one because of the kids. They don't even like boxers. A staff in my hometown had to be put down because it bit someone and I guess that just soured everyone.
> 
> It might be a bad attitude towards the dog, but in the area I'm living in now.. they seem to be majority fighting dogs. I'm sure there are staff owners here that absolutely adore their dogs but some people don't. They're used as muscle is all, and that is wrong.


 
are you getting staffies mixed up with pitbull terriers?

there are loads around here and i dont see any fighting , yes you get the odd teenager who thinks its has to be dragged around all day like their personal bodygaurd but generally the are known as the nanny dog as they are brill with kids 

but as with anydog it is how it is brought up and the training 

i love my daisy she is a staffie and a little rotter


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> So are GSD's, Rottys, Mal's and x's, Akita's etc etc. The list is endless. There will always be aholes around. But staffs really are amazing little dogs. Well i say little they have huge personalities.
> 
> Last year it was all over the news everytime a Rotty bit someone. This time it's staffys. I love how the smaller attacks don't get reported. Some of the jack russels and yorkshire terriers i've seen have been attrocious but as they're tiny they get away with it and have no stigma attatched.


Akitas got the bad press last year too 

I totally agree with everything katie has said 

A dog is what the owner makes it 

and im sorry but 90% of the attacks from dogs are provoked and because idiots have left children unattended with them 

No dog no matter what breed should EVER be left unattended with a child its just plain idiocy


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> It sounds like she needs needs more mental stimulation, training and retrieving are a good start


Yes, we've been trying to train her a bit. She'll do a few basic commands. She's not quite getting retrieving yet, she will chase after the thing, pick it up, drop it, and then come back to us. We'll get there though. We're doing a bit of training every afternoon when we're both at home, then she goes all whappy and playful. We don't mind all the energy she has, we were just thinking that maybe more exercise would be good for her.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i think Akitas look to be the most amusing dog to my eye. I don't know there temprement but when i see pictures i always think they look lovely. I don't see them as agressive but some do.

i get scared of dogs in the street or really big dogs in someones house first time. When i get to know the big dogs my friends own they are loving and like a smaller dog. I think im scared of big ones because when i was younger i had a large dog chasing me. There is one stray im warey of its a staffy and always glare at me and has tried to fight with my dog threw our old fence. 

Staffys are lovely my next door have one (one died at crimbo  ) i always played with them when i was little they didn't bite you the odd nibble but would never harm you. They also get on with our dogs which is rare as our dogs never get on with others.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> Using a crate when you were out, or when she was unsupervised, would mean you didn't come in stressed wondering (or seeing) what she had done while you were out. It doesn't matter how big a smile you pain on your face or how happy you sound. They can sense that you are anxious/annoyed/angry in fact they know how you feel even when you don't:lol2: They don't understand it so become more anxious, and chew more, and cry more. A crate means you have none of that. They also like the security of a crate. Most use them as a bed even when you are in.
> 
> She could be whimpering because there is safety in numbers, again a sign of insecurity. Couldn't say 100% without actually seeing her when she does it.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'm not angry at her though for using a few things as toys. I'll keep the crate training in mind though if the crying doesn't die off.

The safety in numbers thing sounds about right thanks. 

And thank you for the info. on the jackets. When my partner is taking her for walks, he is taking her around the slopey areas to give her more of a challenge. She does get the point of panting, so I think her walking is doing good. But then a couple of hours later, she is all playful. As long as it's normal, we're happy. 

She will already sit, lay, go to her bed when we tell her to. She will jump when we tell her to, she is a quick learner. She will also lay if you use a hand signal. She will stay, but only for a short period of time, - too exited. We are training her. We will teach her loads more than this anyway.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> To the OP. I would not necessarily have held your new dog down. What you have completely failed to understand is that you are strangers to your dog. Why should she trust you? Would you go up to any strange dog in the street and start petting it and being familiar with it? If not, why not? You have done exactly that with this dog who is a strange dog. You may know that she is your dog, but how the heck is she to know this yet? To her, she doesn't belong with you, she is a member of another pack(family). You are random strangers who have taken her from her family into a strange house and are now taking liberties with her without allowing her time to get to know you and trust you.
> Give her time, get her into a routine, walk her often and show her that she can trust you. Do basic things like eating first, not letting her on your bed, not letting her pull on the lead, but do it gently. And after a month or so, she will start to feel at home with you. It can take up to 6 months before a rescue dog feels that he is part of your household, that you are his people and this is hos home. Until then, you are just strangers and to be frank, I doubt any of my own dogs would be 100% happy with strangers laying hands on them if I wasn't around to make them feel safe and happy.


I totally understood that she saw me as a stranger. I never thought that she would understand that she was my dog, - how could she?! I did forget to mention that it was actually three times she had bitten though, the first two, she didn't have anyone's hands on her. 

I understand all that eating before her and that, I've always done that with dogs. I really think she is okay with us already, but as I said before, I'm not too sure she is going to be okay with other people still.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> He has already explained that there are no scars or wounds that indicate fighting..and i'm sorry but your comment is very wrong "They're a breed I'd stay clear of to be honest. Parents couldn't risk it with all th kids at home.."
> Staffies used to be commonly known as the nanny dog...because they're so wonderful with children. That's not to say i'd leave them alone witha child. But I wouldn't leave ANY dog alone with a child. But it is exactley this attitude paired with frigging numpties breeding them that means so many are in rescue and being destroyed daily. In the right hands like any dogs they're amazing.


I've read both, that they were originally bred as family pets and to be good with children, but were then bred as fighting dogs. I wouldn't leave any dog with a child either. I don't think I would leave any animal with a small child either. I'm thinking it depends on the owners how the dog turns out.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Anyway, an update on today. She has been good today, except for barking at a dog that was barking at her. The dog had escaped from it's owner and was another staffy. She was also growling at some birds. I suppose this isn't too bad. She is still being okay walking past people, - staying calm, etc. Right now, she's in her playful mood. My partner has been trying to train her again today as well. Does anybody know what the best diet is for one of these dogs? The previous owner used dry biscuit food, but should she have something more meatier than this? We've kept her on her dry food for now while she settles in, but were thinking of giving her a steak every now and then.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Check out the Barf diet sticky at the top of the page if you are thinking of feeding this way heres the link RAW Feeding (BARF/RMB) for newbies


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Thank you Shell


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

spikes n scales said:


> Anyway, an update on today. She has been good today, except for barking at a dog that was barking at her. The dog had escaped from it's owner and was another staffy. She was also growling at some birds. I suppose this isn't too bad. She is still being okay walking past people, - staying calm, etc. Right now, she's in her playful mood. My partner has been trying to train her again today as well. Does anybody know what the best diet is for one of these dogs? The previous owner used dry biscuit food, but should she have something more meatier than this? We've kept her on her dry food for now while she settles in, but were thinking of giving her a steak every now and then.



As I understand it the fighting bit is irrelevent. The dogs that used to be used as fighters were often kept in their owners houses so it was ESSENTIAL that they were good with people and especially children..hence the 'nanny dog.' Also in a dog fight handlers/owners quite often had to get in the pit to seperate the dogs. If they were human aggressive by nature this wouldn't ahve been possible. Obviously this is dependant on upbringing, if they're treated badly you can't expect an angel.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Sorry to start this up again but I just wanted another opinion on what happened today.

I was walking mollie and there was another dog, she slipped her lead and ran upto it, as I watched what she was doing and calling her back at the same time, her posture didn't seem hostile at all, she was stood normally head not down low or high and almost inviting the other dog to sniff her. But the other dog just kept barking at her, eventually I got to her but she was then in quite an aggressive posture pacing around her with hair on end along her back and was approaching the dog with teeth.

I had to grab her and put on her other lead (I take two just incase) then by the time I had finished the other dog was gone. 

Also someone put some details up eariler on a dog trainer in Leeds, if anyone knows of any could you give me the details again. I rang a place called bark busters, but they seem a bit too interested in the sale rather than the dog, so i am unsure about them.

Thanks

Neil.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

She is probably just under socalised, and was getting annoyed at the other dog barking at her. Most other dogs would of read the barking as a "get lost" sign and left the dog alone.
Reading a dogs body language doesnt always work as I have seen plenty of dogs go from tail wagging to attacking in a matter of seconds, especially certain breeds.

TBH you have to make sure she is securely on a lead at all times, especially as you dont really know what she is like with other dogs. As I'm sure you are aware of what kind of damage one of these dogs could do to another if it decided to. You need to make sure her collar is tight enough, but really you are best having her on a decent harness with a clip attached to her collar for double safety. Or a head collar attached to her collar.

Dont touch bark busters, they do more harm than good.

You need to look on these sites

Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for the response. 

I will be keeping her on the more secure lead anyway. The one she got out of was one of them extendables, which doesn't seem much good.

Not sure about under socialised though, the ex owner said she was good with othe dogs. But he did say alot of stuff which doesn't seem quite right now. Maybe another fib to get rid.

I don't know whether I should keep her away from other dogs now though or keep slowly introducing her to them.

Neil.


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## Snuggles (Sep 18, 2007)

http://www.tailwaggerclub.com/

Angela is fantastic and has worked with me to get a dog through fear aggression and we're currently working with my dog aggressive hound.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Snuggles said:


> http://www.tailwaggerclub.com/
> 
> Angela is fantastic and has worked with me to get a dog through fear aggression and we're currently working with my dog aggressive hound.


Yep, thats the one I posted the link to also, I would highly recomend her, she has worked wonders with many dogs with various problems.

She travells the country doing workshops and I know you have to be quick getting your name down for them as there are usually allot of people waiting.



I would keep her onlead and just see how she gets on with meeting other dogs from a distance and then maybe start to get closer to other dogs (hence me saying use a head collar because then you will have full control of her head just incase she does decide to go for the dog)


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