# APH Feeding...



## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

Hi there, this is a call to all APH keepers.
I have been researching getting one of these wee guys for a while now and have found loads of information on what to feed them but nothing on the quantities to feed them - I have read that obesity can be a problem with hoggies and would like to avoid it.
I read the best diet to give them is dried kitty biccies with some wet food and a range of insects.
Nowhere seems to be stating how much to give though. And what size feeder insects.
I am a total newbie when it comes to APH and can only go with what I have read so far so I am happy to be corrected and any additional information would be taken on board and appreciated fully!
Thanks in advance.
Angela.


----------



## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

I have kept and bred these for some years now and always feed mine dried cat buiscuits with added calcium, insects meal worms and a home made rice cake

To make this i boil some rice, wait for it to cool then mix a little olive oil to bind it together with some peas, greens, strawberries cherries and melon dead insects a little vitamin and calcium powder. i then portion up and freeze. they get one of these a week and go absolutely mad for it, 

I have never had a problem feeding lke this and manage to breed every year without fail. mine dont suffer from any weight problem and are always funning on their wheel when not climbing and digging over and under their branches.


----------



## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

Haha that rice cake sounds lovely! To be honest I've made up worse for my animals - there's not much turns my stomach anymore.
So just freely feed biscuits, but what size mealies to use? Mini, regular or super?
Thanks for your help.


----------



## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

yeah free feed biccies - need to be min 30% protein and max 10% fats though - other foods you can add in are cooked chicken and mince, scrambled egg (no added dairy products as they are deemed to be lactose intolerant) and I would say regular mealies - minis are too small and dont know about super - not too many though as they are fattening


----------



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

good thread. i have had my hedgies for around 6 weeks and have just been playing it by ear and taking my cue from them......and keeping a closeeye on the scales too!


----------



## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

ive been breeding for dokeys years now:lol2:
mine all get cat biscuits as the staple diet, now more than 10% fat and at least 30% protien.
they also get chicken, beef, scrambled eggs, mince, veggies some fruit. mealies normally about once a week. you can give them any size live food theyll eat it. mine like dubai roaches:lol2: if feeding crickets or locusts i would remove the legs to make it a bit easier to catch.


i might try mine with those rice cakes sounds interesting.


----------



## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

angela__k__84 said:


> Haha that rice cake sounds lovely! To be honest I've made up worse for my animals - there's not much turns my stomach anymore.
> So just freely feed biscuits, but what size mealies to use? Mini, regular or super?
> Thanks for your help.


Any size is good, theyll munch away happtily on all of them, though i find the giant are better


----------



## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

oh and wet food is a no no as a main diet, mine only get wet food very very occasionally infact hardly ever. when they do its just a treat and it will be one thats looks like proper chicken non of that process mushy rubbish. when mine get it is literally a spoon full.


----------



## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

how do you feed those rice cakes then? do you give them cold straight out of the freezer? or do you defrost them? (thinking of them collapsing if defrosed but wondering if they are frozen it would give the bellache??) sorry for the stupid question!!! I take it rice isnt a problem then lol!!!


----------



## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

animal addict said:


> how do you feed those rice cakes then? do you give them cold straight out of the freezer? or do you defrost them? (thinking of them collapsing if defrosed but wondering if they are frozen it would give the bellache??) sorry for the stupid question!!! I take it rice isnt a problem then lol!!!


 
I get them out and defrost them, they dont collapse because the olive oil binds it all together, these are handy and conveniant and you can put anything into the mix even chicken or other meat

The rice is ok for them and i have found the oil helps their "coat" as well, mind you make sure its a good quality olive oil, not cheap veg oil


----------



## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

No questions are stupid, Ask away

I get them out and defrost them, they dont collapse because the olive oil binds it all together, these are handy and conveniant and you can put anything into the mix even chicken or other meat



The rice is ok for them and i have found the oil helps their "coat" as well, mind you make sure its a good quality olive oil, not cheap veg oil[/quote]


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

In relation to the insect question u will find some prefer bigger whereas others prefer smaller. For example our female will eat the normal mealies and not morios whereas the male loves his morios lols.


----------



## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

That's great, everybody! Thank you so much for your fantastic replies!
:no1:


----------



## jacquie66 (Aug 4, 2008)

*feeding aph*

This is a very good thread, I am a new aph owner and want to make sure I am doing all I can to make her happy and healthy, I have just one question, vegatables do i cook or not, so far she has not even attempted them raw, just moved them all around her cage, please help! :?


----------



## Lucy_ (Jul 9, 2008)

i feed raw and cooked... it depends what i am feeding, if i am feeding my apd's at the same time as my aph's then its usually raw and cut up really small! if i am making 'balls' up then i will usually boil/steam the veg first so that its soft and easier to mould together

x


----------



## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

veg should be cooked first


----------



## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

What about raw eggs with the shells? Say quail eggs. Would they naturally eat them in the wild???


----------



## jacquie66 (Aug 4, 2008)

*to cook or not to cook veg*

:roll2:Thank you! to you all.


----------



## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

tarantulabarn said:


> mine dont suffer from any weight problem and are always funning on their wheel when not climbing and digging over and under their branches.


Could you post a pic of your set up?


----------



## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

in the wild yeah they would eat raw eggs but personally i wouldnt give it them raw


----------



## Tan (May 7, 2008)

The APH is not found in the wild and is a hybrid of two members of the Atelerix genus, Albiventris & Algirus. The two members of this genus although classed as Insectivores are opportunistic scavengers as well as hunting mammals as ALL hedgehogs are.

In the wild they eat, lizards, birds, eggs, other mammals, insects but very little to no plant matter, they do not digest plant matter fully which has been proven and we have seen in our 17yrs+ experience with hedgehogs. One reason not to feed raw meet or eggs is the immune system is obviously not as strong as that of a wild animal and they can come down with things based on these foods, but like everything many people feed and have no problems, I always think its better not to tempt faith. Cooked veg is more palatable and does digest much better obviously then raw as it looses much via cooking but is still not something I offer. I just do not offer veg to mine, evidence shows it does cause loose stools and higher urine gravidy has been documented (by my own vet too btw in tests we did last year) which in turn can upset the rectum and genitals and then you may be applying the likes of suducrem (yes its safe once you do not allow the animal ingest it which means applying it while having out time and wipe away when being put back into home). 

In captivity many feed kibble as the staple, this is mainly due to costs associated with feeding them a more natural diet or just being misinformed. You do need to look at the APH like any other animal in captivity, many things can be added or taken away for that matter to the diet to enrich the life of the animal, and staple kibble feeding is not one of them. Yes it can be given to them and they do need it to keep teeth in check and you should brush their teeth as Hedgehogs mouths are notorious for bacteria and tooth decay is common which leads to other problems for them gum disease being one of them but to answer can they live on it, yes they can, so I'm not saying they can't but then many people live on fast food, doesn't mean they should. 

Everyone in here will give you 'their' opinion just like I am. Thing is I have been around hedgehogs all my life and dealing with them myself about 16yrs give or take. We even recently had a thread here in relation to ringworm and not one person knew Imavoral (which can be purchased online without prescription legally btw) can be used in the treatment not that I expect everyone to know everything just like we don’t but we do know a lot. The only reason I mention this we have spent a lot of time and money both medically and diet to help educate people both on the domestic hedgehog and the APH and Long Ear and through our studies and experience and just general interests in these wonderful animals many people have also learned, we still are. We have helped with information regarding diet, exercise, medication and this is my own opinion but is also backed by fact in many areas and I hope you make an informed decision when it comes to diet as well as everything else.

Basically look at their wild diet and try replicating it as best you can. Boiled chicken is a good source of protein but also pinkies and gut loaded insects. Insects should be offered daily and I can show you hedgehogs who eat them daily who are not fat like some will claim happens if you do this. Well actually to stop going off on too much of a tangent, they will become over weight if a wheel is not permitted, but then they will also start to show repetitive behavioural problems too leaning to depression and possible aggression so best to avoid denying them this basic requirement, maybe this is for another thread. You will ALWAYS get the ones who do not fit the typical but for the most part they will.

Sorry for the big post. Congrats on the hedgie.


----------



## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

I have 4 hogs and a native one I have hand reared. 

With regards to the diet I find it strage to offer a diet as close as possible to the wild hogs diet yet aph are not found in the wild as I understand. I just find it strange. I try to offer a wide variety of food yet 9/10 times they will turn their noses up at it. So for me biscuits are the way to go. 

In regards to the imaverol - I had suggested it on a diff forum to the people affected. And you are right you can buy it although for me to buy it my hog had to be seen due to my vets policy. I used it on my female when she had sore skin. It was used to rule out a fungal infection. Turned out she just had flakey skin an aveeno oil baths have sorted it.


----------



## Tan (May 7, 2008)

Well I have 44APH currently (many rescue) Long ear and perma resident Europeans with hundreds behind us and many many yrs study of two genus with Hemiechinus being our newest edition. What exactly is strange about it? Insectiovors does not = kibble. Honestly as I said in another thread they are a hybrid of the Atelerix genus and no the APH are not found in the wild (that has been recorded to date but possible) BUT you do not take a Tion (tiger x Lion) for example and feed it grass because it is a mix, or a dog say a mix of two pure breeds and feed it apples. The point is that it may be a hybrid but it is no less a hedgehog requiring a natural diet then those in the wild OR say the long ears, some are almost as far removed now as the APH but still have requirements were diet is concerned. Also keep in mind it is a Hybrid within the same genus, so there for some physical traits will be seen from either side but again, the same genus. Diet remains the same. 

The APHs dietary requirements have not changed due to it not being originally a pure breed, but it is in its own right now, it is still a hedgehog with no changes evolutionary wise to that of its wild counterparts as I think I pointed out and still requires what they need as wild animals. I thought this would be obvious given the knowledge we (The hedgehog world and not just me) now have on them and also I thought I worded that last post well enough to explain that. 

As far as Imavoral goes, your the only person to come forward and say anything about it other then questioning its uses when I talked about it last yr in here and other forums (I think maybe one person said they knew of it??). I had actually had to quote a printed work to be believed by some as my experiences over time didn't seem to count for much where some parties were concerned but thats besides the point.

I think three generations of hedgehog rescue has given us some basic knowledge on the animal and our time invested has also helped hugely with them. I did say everyone would offer 'their' opinion and although you are fully entitled to yours which I do respect I do not agree with you opinion on diet.


----------



## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

really useful thread, very interesting. I have 3 APH. The rice cakes sound good, might give them a go. My hedgehogs will do anything for sweetcorn, they love the stuff.


----------

