# Won't eat or wake up



## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

My red eye didnt wake up last night I went to sleep at 2am and checked on him at 6am and he was still in the same spot and the small locust I put in was still there. He hasn't eaten since I got him. Day temps are 27 C and 80% humidity so they arent the problem. Do you think he needs a friend because I heard they are more active in groups?
Any suggestions on what i should do? I'm on the computer in my room before I go to bed and the monitor lights up the room a bit maybe I should move him out of my room where lights wont be turned on and off etc.:|


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

bump bump trump


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

I wonder if it would help to raise the temps slightly?I have no idea really,I hope someone can help you soon,could he be dehydrated?


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## Young996 (Jul 1, 2009)

Howzit andaroo

I wouldn't raise the temp, 27 C is as high as I would go. I keep mine at 25 C day and 22 C night. Also I wouldn't worry to much if he hasn't moved he is probable still getting used to his new viv. When ever I've moved mine into a new viv a few of them don't move for days, at the same time mine didn't have the same skin problem. I would leave it be personally. 

Hope this helps


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Young996 said:


> Howzit andaroo
> 
> I wouldn't raise the temp, 27 C is as high as I would go. I keep mine at 25 C day and 22 C night. Also I wouldn't worry to much if he hasn't moved he is probable still getting used to his new viv. When ever I've moved mine into a new viv a few of them don't move for days, at the same time mine didn't have the same skin problem. I would leave it be personally.
> 
> Hope this helps


thanks for the info, I will leave him to it. His skin has almost completely healed, just brown specks were the marks used to be. How long will he go without eating/ should i keep putting a locust in every night or leave it for a few days?


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## Young996 (Jul 1, 2009)

andaroo said:


> thanks for the info, I will leave him to it. His skin has almost completely healed, just brown specks were the marks used to be. How long will he go without eating/ should i keep putting a locust in every night or leave it for a few days?


I would put a few locust's(powdered) in at night and remove uneaten ones in the morn. As for how long they can go without food it's hard to say, I have never really looked after young RETF but I'm sure he/she will settled by the beginning of the week, less stress the better. Also I wouldn't worry to much about you having the PC on at night I would worry more about noise. I'm sure he/she will come right soon. hope you get a full nights sleep

cheers


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Young996 said:


> I would put a few locust's(powdered) in at night and remove uneaten ones in the morn. As for how long they can go without food it's hard to say, I have never really looked after young RETF but I'm sure he/she will settled by the beginning of the week, less stress the better. Also I wouldn't worry to much about you having the PC on at night I would worry more about noise. I'm sure he/she will come right soon. hope you get a full nights sleep
> 
> cheers


Oh he isn't a baby he is 12-14 months old apparently!
Do you know how long they last for?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

would you say he is full grown?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Dunno, but looks much healthier now from what I can tell.


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## Young996 (Jul 1, 2009)

He looks like a completely different frog from the photo's you posted a few days ago. I can't really say how long they live for depends on a few things like how much have you bread them, conditions, stress, heath problems ect, maybe someone could give you a better estimate. 

Enjoy


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

I hope he is ok im sure he will be. When i first get a pet i worry about every little thing. It shows that you care for him.

I have to say hes set up looks nice.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

He's been basking under a 10% UVB light since I got him. I think maybe this could be a contributing factor to him healing so quickly.

This is his set up.









Hes on the stop of the big leaf. Sleeping as usual


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I think maybe you should change the 10% bulb now, it might be too strong and could dehydrate him. I only use a 5% in my RETF tank xx


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

He's definitely looking better and he's a real cutie 



jennlovesfrogs said:


> I think maybe you should change the 10% bulb now, it might be too strong and could dehydrate him. I only use a 5% in my RETF tank xx


Sorry Jenn  But,
Pardon?

You've just been presented with a photo of an animal CHOOSING to sit directly beneath a 10% UVB tube and your first thought is "Oh it might be too strong for him, change it quick!?!"

Why do we always think we know better than the animals in our care?

That RETF has all the options he needs in that viv, it has been well organised, if the RETF feels too exposed or that he's being dehydrated by the lamp, he can simply choose to sit on the underside of that leaf and be completely protected...
If it wants a little exposure to light and heat but not too much, it can simply move into some of the semi shade on the left...

I personally have worked with a number of _Agalychnis_ species (_callidryas, annae, saltator, spurrelli, moreletii_ and _calcarifer, craspedopus_, both now within _Cruziohyla_.) and I would use a 10%UVB tube for all of these species.


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I didn't say change it quick lol, I just wondered as andaroo mentioned it wasn't waking or eating, that it might be too strong, but then I can only go by what I use. Should I be changing mine to 10%'s then? I have always been told and read that these are too strong for frogs :S i'm confused now.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> I didn't say change it quick lol, I just wondered as andaroo mentioned it wasn't waking or eating, that it might be too strong, but then I can only go by what I use. Should I be changing mine to 10%'s then? I have always been told and read that these are too strong for frogs :S i'm confused now.


I can't stress enough that good husbandry is about providing your animal with choices appropriate to it's natural adaptations _and_ observing it as an individual and learning to understand it's behaviour, reading the clues and hints it is giving you for free!

Here's an animal that simply needs time and a reduction in stress to see it relax and begin feeding. In the meantime it's actively choosing to be exposed to UVB, which can only be a positive thing for an animal that was stressed and injured in transit. I just don't see it as logical to blame the UV as a potentially negative factor in this case, nothing suggests it.

A UV that is too strong would have sent the RETF into hiding. These animals aren't stupid, they recognise factors in their environment, he knows he is being exposed to light and chooses to allow that. A UVB tube will not dehydrate a frog at that distance and with the option to move away.

The place where I worked with Agalychnis and Cruziohyla species did not provide more than 2% UV if any. Sadly the results of this are obvious in the institutions which have since received animals kept in these conditions. 
I would personally always go for 10% with these treefrogs  The key is to provide it in a suitable environment such as the viv pictured above, allowing the animal the options it needs.

Lotte***


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

thank you, you always give wonderful advice xxx i'm off to the shops in the morning xxx


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks Lotte. :notworthy:Im switching to 10% with my whites too. Im convinced its good for them as seeing my retf heal so quickly.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Young996 said:


> I wouldn't raise the temp, 27 C is as high as I would go. I keep mine at 25 C day and 22 C night.


i totaly agree, these are the same temps as i use



andaroo said:


> Oh he isn't a baby he is 12-14 months old apparently!
> Do you know how long they last for?


around 8 years if propperly cared for



andaroo said:


> would you say he is full grown?
> 
> image


i would say he is by the pics but its hard to tell, whats the s2v? he is defo a male though



andaroo said:


> He's been basking under a 10% UVB light since I got him. I think maybe this could be a contributing factor to him healing so quickly.


nice set up, i chose to use a combo of 2 and 5% bulbs with adults though



Saedcantas said:


> I can't stress enough that good husbandry is about providing your animal with choices appropriate to it's natural adaptations _and_ observing it as an individual and learning to understand it's behaviour, reading the clues and hints it is giving you for free!


i totally agree with providing the animal with choice, however i do think 10% is a bit high for an adult. considering the size of the viv and the strength of the uv i personally dont think enough options are being provided. i use a 2% and a 5%on my adult a.callidryas giving them an option of how strong they wish to tolerate.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

He is shedding alot and didn't wake up or eat again last night I checked at 3am and 6am. He only woke up this morning after the tank light came on he crawled around and then went back to his spot. I've switched the bulb to a 2% to see if it'll make a difference dont think it will but its just a test. He was used to eating small crickets the previous owner has told me but small locusts are about the same size and I don't want to go back to using those and risk them not being eaten and having them hiding in the tank but if thats all he used to eat then I guess i'll have to get some...


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

andaroo said:


> He was used to eating small crickets the previous owner has told me but small locusts are about the same size and I don't want to go back to using those and risk them not being eaten and having them hiding in the tank but if thats all he used to eat then I guess i'll have to get some...


if they move and he is hungry he will eat the locusts im sure. i had all my frogs on crickets for years and had no problems when i changed to locusts. ok they did only start as a treat but now thats all i buy. im 100% sure he will go mad for flys and moths.

i dont think there will be any difference in his healing with either a 10% or 2% uv, cant see how this would speed up the skin healing? i used a 10% tube on some Rhacophorus dennysi as there 5% broke and it actually made them hide alot more, weather it was to bright or they did not like the effects of a higher percentage i dont know, but they was defo happier once i reverted back to a 5%.


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

"I've switched the bulb to a 2%" 

i wouldnt and i dont think 10% is very strong anyway but uv helps produce vitamin d which will help with his skin, maybe this is the reason he is shedding as he did have a lot of damaged skin.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

AndyJY said:


> "I've switched the bulb to a 2%"
> 
> i wouldnt and i dont think 10% is very strong anyway but uv helps produce vitamin d which will help with his skin, maybe this is the reason he is shedding as he did have a lot of damaged skin.


U.V only actually helps in the D3 cycle. Calcium must be present for the process to be possible. 10% uv is not "strong" but in a viv with limited places to hide, and there not being a huge difference inbetween being near the bulb and far away from it you are not giving them a fair shot at avoiding any unwanted exposure.

Why is it everyone seems like there an expert all of a sudden??????


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I use two rainforest day bulbs...my frogs have always always always slept behind leaves in hte shadows to avoid them...


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

*Update:*

>Changed bulbs to 2% and moved tank out of my bedroom into the guest room which no one goes in. Had been in there for 3 nights now and still no change. 

>3 sides covered in coco panels and the front covered with a lime green cloth. 

>Wakes up but won't come off the leaf and doesn't eat anything. I've tried small locusts, small crickets and put 2 mini meal worms and 1 wax worm in a little dish and they haven't been touched. 

>Saw him shedding last night and his colour was very bright his blue legs were glistening! 

>He has pooed a couple of drops too, but definitely has not eaten anything since the day i got him on wednesday 7th october. 

>Read elsewhere that could be due to the lighting being too bright so i have switched to a 5% bulb which is alot dimmer with a more orange glow. 

>Added one of these







and one of these







to the tank removed 1 coco paneled side and covered the glass with lime green card on the outside. So now the tank is more green and has more colour as maybe the old set up wasnt green enough for him?

Could it be his tank is too small its 30x30x45 which is 10 gallons. Read they need 20 but thought as he is so small and very inactive that he wouldn't need any bigger?

What should I do?!:devil:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

tank size could be an issue espacially if he is used to a larger enclosure. i would avoid doing too much tampering with the lights and decor as this can only leed to further stress. The thing i would be most concerned with is that he has not eaten in over 9 days now. if he does not start to eat soon the odds will satrt stacking up against him. I would suggest either consulting a vet or getting some form of vitamins into him via the water. a sugar or saline bath may help but i honestly think this frog needs profesional help.

he should be starting to settle now and should of eaten. i cant make it clear enough avoid any more photos or changes to the viv, dont try pushing to much food in there as uneaten food will ony make matters worse.


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I think with a lot less poking around and viv changes, and let him be for a few days he might settle on his own. Red eyes are very sensitive. If after leaving him, he's still not settling and eating, then maybe intervention is needed.
i'm sorry to sound harsh, but all the panicking and fussing will only stress him more, making him less likely to want to eat, as he will not feel secure.
Have you noticed any poo in his tank at all in the last 24-48 hrs? this is usually a sign that they are eating (in secret)
I wish you the best of luck with him, and I really do hope he settles soon xxx


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> I think with a lot less poking around and viv changes, and let him be for a few days he might settle on his own. Red eyes are very sensitive. If after leaving him, he's still not settling and eating, then maybe intervention is needed.
> i'm sorry to sound harsh, but all the panicking and fussing will only stress him more, making him less likely to want to eat, as he will not feel secure.
> Have you noticed any poo in his tank at all in the last 24-48 hrs? this is usually a sign that they are eating (in secret)
> I wish you the best of luck with him, and I really do hope he settles soon xxx


I know this but the coco panel on the floor got damp and mouldy so i had to take it out so I figured it would add the plants I got him. He has pooed a few times only tiny drops but he definately has not eaten a thing as i have counted every thing i have put it and have collected every single one the next morning. The only thing he has eaten is his skin from shedding every couple of days or so. I've turned his light off and put in 3 locusts, extra small, small and medium to see what size he goes for (if any) tonight. The crickets I put in escaped so I don't want to use them anymore! I caught them though as they were under the light but on the outside of the mesh:bash:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

well the poo, and the shed, are good things. try again, very quietly and as dark as possible tonight, chuck some tiny crickets in and some tiny locusts (not too many though, just enough so you can see if he's eaten any) and see what happens. I will keep my fingers crossed that he eats something soon! even if it's one thing!
oh and the poo they do is only ever tiny, like mouse droppings. nothing like the size the whites do  is this the size he did?


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

Oh and to try stop the tiny ones escaping, I stick silicone over the holes, or some tape will do for now.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> well the poo, and the shed, are good things. try again, very quietly and as dark as possible tonight, chuck some tiny crickets in and some tiny locusts (not too many though, just enough so you can see if he's eaten any) and see what happens. I will keep my fingers crossed that he eats something soon! even if it's one thing!
> oh and the poo they do is only ever tiny, like mouse droppings. nothing like the size the whites do  is this the size he did?


Yeah they are tiny how can it poo if it has not eaten? Its pooed about 3 times this week lol. I will try the 3 locusts tonight and if no success i will try the crickets again and cover the holes :devil:
i hope tonight is the night!!:surrender:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

nice to see you took notice of my advice.....................


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

knighty said:


> nice to see you took notice of my advice.....................


i did! i will give him until sunday. I won't even lift the cover on the front until sunday night if he hasnt eaten any of the food i've put in today then off to the vets on tuesday!


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Nightys right your messing with him to much every time you change his enclosure its like being moved again causing more stress. Try and get some house flies or small moths they usually go mad for them


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