# Sticky  Cage mods



## loxocemus

i made this design several years ago now, i made a polypropylene version (this version is the "deluxe" metal version) and used it for a few years i believe, it was used for burrowers and regular snakes, it never caused a problem, the burrowing use also included about 4" of moist coco/moss mix piled on top, it worked perfectly even in this scenario.

the version i built and used was slightly different, i had the stat probe fixed to the "sitting surface" this tweaked design places it inside to simplify the look. one *important* point this unit has to be calibrated due to the stats probe position, what i mean is a thermometer probe has to be place on the surface and the the stat gradually increased till u get ur 90of for example, ur stat will almost certainly not show 90 on the dial/display, it will be close but not exact, hence the calibration, simply because of mat variation, the material between the probe surface and the bottom of the snake.

so lets begin, this example is a 17x11 version, just because, u can use any size mat or use multiples, i recommend only habistat mats with this design, thats all iv used with it and i think their the best available, im not a fan of the cheaper "printed" type mats.

the mat, i often trim the clear plastic edge back some to get the smallest unit possible it is not necessary










the bottom sheet, cut to size from aluminium warehouse (https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/aluminium-sheet-cut-to-order) i recommend 1.2mm 6082 as it has excellent corrosion resistance










edged with 20x10mm alu flat bar its stuck to the sheet using 3m double sided tape, make sure u get the position right as its a very very firm attachment,
the flat bar is attached/3m to the bottom sheet only, the top sheet is left removable for servicing (https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/aluminium/flat-bar/page/2) this is principally a spacer and fixing edge










plus 10mm underfloor insulation (Electric Underfloor Heating Insulation Boards 6mm & 10mm XPS | eBay)










as above plus cutouts, one square for the mats block, the thicker block side goes down, the channel is for the stats probe, it is towards the mats edge to allow a higher possible temperature, ie if the probe is in the middle of the mat it will max out sooner than a probe placed near the edge, a higher temp can be brought down, a temp thats not high enough and maxed out on the stat is no good to anyone (again this is why calibration is important)










plus mat, the stats probe is underneath in the channel cut out










top sheet added, the drilled holes are at the flat bars midpoint/5mm, they are of the size necessary for the chicago screws, the best method for drilling the holes is to have the complete unit clamped together with edges square and flush, then simply drill thru the entire piece, top sheet-spacer-bottom sheet, then it makes no difference if ur position is off, all the holes will be in line with each other.










close up of the mat cable the probes cable exiting, iv sketched a hole as the exit point, but it would be far far easier if a section was just removed from the flat bar length










the entire assembly is held closed with chicago screws/binding posts (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=chicago+screws&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=15) this design would use 9mm, this allows the unit to be servicable, u can use more than pictured










as above, closer view



















internal design



















when i designed this i really wanted it to be thin, ie take up little room and be hidden under substrate, i wanted it to be servicable, with the unit pushed up to a cage side (or back) the cables exiting the unit can exit the cage via a hole at floor height, so the idea was to get heating, to get control, but with none of it visible or even in the cage, all thats in the cage is the unit, the snake is unable to interfere with any component, i have also used it in large tubs.

all the above material (inc the chicago screws) can be replaced with plastic material choices, i have made some with polypropylene sheet, i used thicker polypropylene as the edge spacer, i used plastic chicago screws, the metal version is just nicer looking, the metal is a better conductor of heat, its very easy to sterilize. u can also combine materials ie alu sheet with a polypro spacer would be ideal, iv used hardwood as the spacer but i dont recommend that in moist caging.

is it cheap? i doubt it (though with postage and material minimums it is cost effective the more u make), i never made it to save money i designed it to solve a problem, heatmats inside a cage that are protected from and for the snake. the design above is 12.4mm thick, that isnt bad even if i do say so myself  (its actually the stats probe that determines the overall unit thickness)

as i said this version needs calibration simply because the probe is internal, and may not experience the same temps as the outer surface, once calibrated its essentially set and forget. i have tested this design extensively, the problems i found were minor and easily fixed, and those fixes are included above.

use as you will : victory:

if anyone wants the sketchup file to pick apart and modify id be happy to email it 

rgds
ed

ps polypro sheets on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...olypro.TRS0&_nkw=polypropylene+sheet&_sacat=0


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## loxocemus

*dual chamber hide*

the chamber hide

i designed this a few years ago, they are essentially a modified retes stack but are enclosed. **because they are enclosed they cannot be used like a retes stack.

i used the foam material because its light and easily worked, i used a one piece cutout but u would get more hides by just cutting lengths from the block and gluing them together, i just liked the one piece cutout shape

blue craft foam, depending on the species its for u can use 50mm thick or 75mm CRAFT FOAM SHEETS BLUE EXTRUDED STYROFOAM MODELLING SCULPTING - FREE UK POSTAGE! | eBay










the layout for my particular hide shape, the walls are 25mm thick, they can be sanded into shape, they do not absorb matter and are easily sterilised



















i cut the shape out using a dremel drill bit meant for plasterboard










so the bottom chamber is capped by a lid with an access hole, i used slate as its heavy and i just like the material, u can also use wood, plastic, foamboard










bottom chamber, ideally over the heatmat










both chambers together, the upper chamber can be partially filled with moss if you want or need a moist environment, the access holes are offset, ie bottom is to the left, top to the right, to prevent light entering the bottom chamber. this dual chamber is ideal for small caging tubs were space is short as it gives a cool hide and warm hide in the same area (slate is especially suited for this specific need)










in practice i found animals would use both levels equally, feeding an animal usually just involved leaving the food at one of the access holes. the hide above is 18x12, for a large adult corn i would use 75mm foam or for an average sized corn or similar i would use 50mm. the pieces are not fixed together in any way, which means u just lift a layer to have a peek, levels are interchangeable if cut to the same layout. a dual chamber using 75mm is approx 6" high, the 50mm foam results in an approx 4" high hide, so their quite low profile for their area size and the size of snake they can contain.

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

internal view of the dual hide above










branch fitting/fixing

i made some of these a few years ago for a friends chondro caging, to support the perches, the design allows different diameters of perches branches yada yada

i used a cheap plastic cutting board like these White Plastic Large Medium small Chopping Board Kitchen Cutting Board heavy Duty | eBay










the V shape helps prevent rotation, but this still happens with enough torque, i modified some to prevent any rotation (modification next post)










u can get multiples per board, more than pictured with a smart layout










if one is not enough they can be stacked to provide a thicker support










i used these bolts to fix them in place (thru rub walls) screws could also be used in classic wooden caging BLACK CAR MOTORBIKE VAN NUMBER PLATE FIXING BOLTS & NUTS LICENSE FITTING SCREWS | eBay

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

pin modification to prevent perch rotation

the fitting with a 5mm hole drilled into it












shelf pin 5mm 25x SHELF SUPPORT PINS, STUDS , METAL PEGS










in place pin 










a matching grove, hole, or cutout prevents a perch spinning



















rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

this is another branch perch fixing that can be made with a cheap hole saw set, using two different sized holesaws. the small inner circle is cut out first, with the larger circle cut out last. i recommend cutting half way thru the material on one side, then the hole is completed from the other side, this gives a cleaner cut.

each layout makes 2 separate fittings when cut in two




























with a pin to prevent perch rotation










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

the semi circular fittings were made for pvc pipe perches, they are often used for static arboreals like chondros and etb's










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

off the shelf vivarium conversion to drawer cage

the drawer cage is an old design, it goes waay back to bob applegate and even before, it consists of two sections, the upper cage and the lower drawer portion. its a great captive replication of a burrow in a cage, its also handy for keeping pairs together, as they can be separated for feeding, one in the drawer, the other in the main cage. the drawer sections are usually heated by heatmats, in a two drawer cage only one needs heated, the one at the cages "hot end", in the large drawer design only a portion of the drawer has to be heated, again usually mirroring the heated cage end.

a regular off the shelf cage, but these are actually very good quality as i bought one once to test mods on 

Melamine Vivarium OAK 36 x 24 x24










i prefer plant trays or large level cat trays as drawers Garland Planting Tray, Seed Tray, Work Tray, 53 x 40 X 9,5 cm very sturdy | eBay

the main portion of this mod is the drawer area, the length and width are cut to the main cages dimensions, the height though, thats the most important part to get right in the entire build, it is as follows

internal height = heatmat+drawer+spacer* is ur cut height, so in this design its approx 97mm, this gives a sliding gap of 1mm, i always go for tighter tolerances as u never know what species that cage may house in the future, so design for the smallest babies










to make sure the cage and drawer section align correctly, and stay aligned, shelf pins are used as below










with drawers in place, single and dual





access to the drawer from the cage is via a hole cut into the floor, the hole has to be at the front, if it was at the back it would act like a guillotine as the drawer back passes the hole! so entry point at the front, the hole has another fitting around it, a substrate barrier and drawer cap in one, i have used round food tubs of the right size, a hole is cut in the tubs bottom that matches the floor entry hole, the tub lids can be used to close the drawer section off from the upper cage.












floors with entry caps










complete cages closed single and dual










complete cages open single and dual










internal minus glass










as i mention above the only difficult part in these conversions is getting the drawer section height exact, as a spacer* i used a blank dvd disc, one on each corner, this overall height mark, one at the front and the back gives ur cut line, if ur not sure, add a 1mm or 2mm, then plane (or file/sand if u dont have a plane) down any excess material till u get ur best fit.

an additional point i have learned when using the drawer caging for humid species, if the drawers are filled with moist substrate the moisture will condense on the underside of the *cage* floor, and melamine is not waterproof, so the way around this is to cover the under side of the cage portion (the ceilings of the drawers effectively) with a layer of heavy duty self adhesive vinyl, its very durable as there is no wear and tear on that surface.

u can also do internal cage conversion ie theres no additional drawers section but instead the glass is moved up to make way for drawers and a false floor, but its a bit more technical and very cage specific so this is the method i suggest for a first attempt.

rgds
ed
ps this design can also be changed to make one large classic design cage into two smaller drawer cages by adding a midwall, taking advantage of the 2 sliding doors setup


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## loxocemus

the 50 litre cage

this cage is built around the 50lt rub in single unit form, its also designed for standard 600mm melamine.

when selecting a drawer it should ideally be a solid color, to prevent light getting in, the idea of a captive burrow is that its a retreat into the safety of darkness, of being hidden from predatory eyes. thankfully rubs come in solid colors including black










possible equipment for the above would be a 17x11 mat under the drawer and a reptile radiator in the upper cage with led strip lighting (iv used all 3 in such designs and they go together quite well).

rough dimensions based on the specs of the box










this type of setup would be ideal for all sandboas, all rosys, all common hogs (not madagascan), species like diones leopards, mountain kings, san louis potosi, housesnakes, mexican milks, species of that size and habit.

this design is stackable, the viewing panel can be glass or acrylic ideally around 5mm

a similar design but around 1200x600x600 single unit










a variation of the above, 2 units, that can be temporarily split or permanently divided










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

regarding the 50lt cage, there is a 33lt size too and this would make a as good if not better replacement in this design, reducing drawer height while increasing upper cage height.

rgds
ed


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## Whosthedaddy2

This is a set up I would like to have dabbled with.

I tried it with my double decker RUB design for the anacondas but think it's worth a go with the design you've suggested.

Well done



loxocemus said:


> the 50 litre cage
> 
> this cage is built around the 50lt rub in single unit form, its also designed for standard 600mm melamine.
> 
> when selecting a drawer it should ideally be a solid color, to prevent light getting in, the idea of a captive burrow is that its a retreat into the safety of darkness, of being hidden from predatory eyes. thankfully rubs come in solid colors including black
> 
> image
> 
> possible equipment for the above would be a 17x11 mat under the drawer and a reptile radiator in the upper cage with led strip lighting (iv used all 3 in such designs and they go together quite well).
> 
> rough dimensions based on the specs of the box
> 
> image
> 
> this type of setup would be ideal for all sandboas, all rosys, all common hogs (not madagascan), species like diones leopards, mountain kings, san louis potosi, housesnakes, mexican milks, species of that size and habit.
> 
> this design is stackable, the viewing panel can be glass or acrylic ideally around 5mm
> 
> a similar design but around 1200x600x600 single unit
> 
> image
> 
> a variation of the above, 2 units, that can be temporarily split or permanently divided
> 
> image
> 
> rgds
> ed


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## loxocemus

this is the 33lt version



















the upper cage height in those is just random, if someone was building stacks of them for heterodon id suggest anything from 300 to 450 for upper cage height (a full 600mm board as a back piece would give an upper cage height of @436mm). the 33lt is a better drawer, the 50lt i think is too deep/high for this short a cage, i just forgot the 33lt was the same floor area with lower height when i did those previous sketches : victory:.

if you didnt like the swing doors there is a design with 2 units per cage that uses classic sliding doors, the midwall partition lines up with the inner doors edge, so like the swing door u have complete access to the cage. the only quirk with this design is the midwall has to come right up to the glass door inner surface, so the snake cannot get into the neighboring unit (or get trapped trying to).

rgds
ed




Whosthedaddy2 said:


> This is a set up I would like to have dabbled with.
> 
> I tried it with my double decker RUB design for the anacondas but think it's worth a go with the design you've suggested.
> 
> Well done


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## loxocemus

Regarding the drawers in the previous designs, they are obviously pre-made plastic containers meant for other uses, many of the original drawer cages had 90 degree box drawers built to fit the cage. this means that rather than the cage being designed around a pre-made container the drawer can be of any size and maximize the use of the drawer level space. i have made my own drawers and they have the same problems as cages, "corners", cleaning debris (poop) thoroughly from a 90 degree corner is annoying, time consuming, the seamless curve or corner of a plastic tub is more hygienic and plastic trays require little to no work to adapt them to a cage design.

lastly i have attached large drawers to heavy duty drawer sliders Soft Close Drawer Slides/Rear Runners Side Mount Ball Bearing Slides Heavy Duty | eBay in the past as i like the effortless quiet opening of a heavy tray, iv used them on large trays with lots of moist substrate in them, but u do have to design for weight displacement depending on the plastic.

rgds
ed

ps the two piece substrate barrier in the sketches is designed to fit with the viewing panel to prevent a gap between the barrier and the door, either to prevent substrate falling in or an animal getting in there (or trying to), its also designed to not be visible from the front.


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## loxocemus

a mod for a non spill water tub, these are often used with large constrictors, retics etc and the mod prevents the tub being moved around and tipped over from just the weight of the animal, it can be further modified with extra batons to be placed further along the cage length, it does not have to be placed in a corner.

this one is not my design but i have no idea where i saw it originally. the baton material can be anything but id suggest upvc 25mmx20mm rectangle trim uPVC Window Door Architrave Skirting Plastic Beading Trim Pack of 4 X 1250mm 49" | eBay 
(or larger if its a sizable tub) rubs make good water tubs as the rims are fairly strong and will resist flexing

water tub, corner placement










tub with batons, side fixed baton prevents tipping, bottom baton prevents moving around










just baton placement, its a cheap quick mod that can help with those troublesome tub movers/spillers










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

humidity tub, this could be especially useful for balls in racks in low humidity rooms. its just a low profile round food tub from tesco asda etc, cut a hole in the lid, then zip tie or hot glue a round piece of this https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Crafts/14339/i.html?_nkw=plastic+canvas+7&_sop=15 thats larger than the cutout, to the underside of the lid, so its nice n' neat from the outside. a couple inches of water and sit it on the heatmat area. its a small tub so it doesn't use precious space, the mesh allows evaporation and prevents the animal drinking the water.

iv also filled these with clay drainage beads used for houseplants (or even moss), plus water, to increase the surface area, add weight and allows filling the tub up with more water while keeping a good evaporation rate. these tubs can be scaled up for cages, and fixed to the sides of arboreal cages (iv done this with p.baroni).










if u dont have a heatmat in the cage setup u could use one of the really small mats like these HabiStat Heat Mat UK 4"x5" 102mmx127mm 4 Watts under a scaled up tub, no stat needed : victory:

if it was a bigger cage and therefore a bigger tub id use this http://www.habistat.org/heating/heat-mats/habistat-heat-mat-uk-11-x11-280mmx280mm-12-watts , they do adhesive versions of those mats too.

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

wheeled base for viv stacks. 

there *will* come a time when u have to move a stack of vivs, whether its repainting the reptile room or needing access to rear wiring, water leaking from the ceiling above the stack (yup happened to me, drip drip next to the electrical), nothing beats being able to move an entire stack around easily and quickly.

the batons can be a spacer if u choose to bolt/nut the castors on, this prevents the bolt/nut heads interfering with the cage bottom. if u screw the castors on the batons provide fixing material, i recommend 50mm wide thread screws when using 50mm batons, pre drill the holes to prevent splitting, these screws would also be ideal for fixing the batons to the board.

i also recommend a mid baton for every 2ft over 4ft, 3ft and smaller lengths dont need them. the board itself can be anything, plywood, melamine or mdf, plywood is the strongest of the three though. 

the front 2 castors should ideally be the brake type, only use heavy duty castors, not chair or sofa castors, i had a cheap one fail once and the stack started to tip when i was moving it. consider something like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...&_nkw=heavy+duty+castors&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=15 if you are building a base for stacks of very long caging consider adding castors at the midpoint.



















rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

simple and quick arboreal hide

arboreal hides come in many forms depending on the animal, size and whether its diurnal or nocturnal are the main design factors. anyway this one is simple because it uses really useful boxes, which come in many sizes and colors.

i recommend the solid black boxes for this build and nylon wingnuts and bolts for attachment.

upside down rub in the cage corner










inside view of the upside down box, its simply held up by four nylon wingnuts so its easily removed for cleaning etc. to get the holes for the bolts right just drill four holes in the rubs floor, hold the box up to the ceiling, mark the ceiling thru the holes, drill them out. both hole sets will match up every time.










box in place minus lid (or floor in the arboreal hide sense) 










to access the animal you just undo the handles and ur holding the lid with ur animal sitting on it  you have to provide enough room between the wall and the box for access to the handle though. the entry hole can be in the "front" face of the box instead of the side face.










the above is just a basic 20-30min mod with little layout or tools needed, basically a drill, drill bit for the bolt holes and ideally a hole saw for the box entrance but that can also be done with just a little saw blade.

you can go a little fancier with aluminium u channel and the complete lidded box sliding out (the holes u can see on the bottom u channel surface are for screwdriver access when fixing channel to the ceiling).



















there is also a variation where u cut "keyhole" holes in the lid that connect with bolt heads in the ceiling for a more simple push/pull click access but the layout is more technical and tolerances are tighter. for a first or quick/easy rub arboreal hide you cant beat the first type, wingnut attachment upside down.

rgds
ed


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## Whosthedaddy2

I've also seen large diameter black tubing ornpipe suspended from the roof 

Having a hide box off the floor makes all much sense to an arborel snake and frees up space


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## loxocemus

if u look at a lot of cages the floor is covered in stuff but all that ceiling space is just empty, stuff like cornsnakes would have a ball with an extra hide up in a corner.

u could actually mod the box to have heating.

rgds
ed



Whosthedaddy2 said:


> I've also seen large diameter black tubing ornpipe suspended from the roof
> 
> Having a hide box off the floor makes all much sense to an arborel snake and frees up space


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## loxocemus

if anyone has any mods to suggest let me know and il do my best to add them.

rgds
ed


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## Whosthedaddy2

Or even suspend a hanging basket with hemp liner to be like a bit me at for feeding


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## loxocemus

some chondro keepers use bird boxes (ps i checked the bird box in my mums garden, it has yet to attract the wild scottish chondro)

rgds
ed
ps a nice looking one is the U shaped cork tubes, they look quite natural up there



Whosthedaddy2 said:


> Or even suspend a hanging basket with hemp liner to be like a bit me at for feeding


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## loxocemus

64lt box to habitat conversion. this would be even more effective in the larger sizes of rubs, the 84lt and 145lt.

first the lid is hinged to allow quick opening when in a shelving row.



















a good mini branch system is made from deer antlers, grapevine though is easier to find. the hides are made from 110mm plastic pipes with push fit end caps https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Pipes/63..._BIN=1&_from=R40&_nkw=110mm+pipe&LH_PrefLoc=1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Plumbing...H_BIN=1&_from=R40&_nkw=110mm+cap&LH_PrefLoc=1

the nylon bolt heads keep the pipe hides in place, the pipe hides are great for snakes, they really take well to them, they are also good in the drawers of drawer caging. 



a box doesn't have to be a void with just paper and a bowl










if u specialise in groups of small secretive species i think these would be ideal










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

the floor thats not a floor in a cage thats not a cage

this is a 64lt rub, the floor supports are 13mm x 15mm upvc trim https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...C+trim+15mm.TRS0&_nkw=uPVC+trim+15mm&_sacat=0 










the floor material is 10mm PVC FOAMEX https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...ex+sheet.TRS0&_nkw=10mm+foamex+sheet&_sacat=0
u can have one or more access holes










in small rubs the floor can be a single piece, in larger boxes it can be hinged










i would use clear rubs but i would line the inside walls under the partition floor with self adhesive black vinyl, the subfloor area should be as dark as possible. u can lock the floors from lifting by using a shelf pin at the side midpoint.

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

compression hide/shelf for ball python rubs, the materials are the same as the post above

dual upvc batons creating runners, the foamex is 10mm the gap should be 11-12mm.



















the hide/shelf should be around half the floor area (if the shelf length is 50% of rub length then push the baton lengths back about 50mm+ so the shelf is easier to release). the board creates a compression hide, the animal cannot move the hide, and its freedom of movement is limited in the vertical. there has to be enough space for an adult coiled female, but no more than necessary otherwise the compression effect is lost.










it also serves a dual purpose as a shelf to lay on, using space normally wasted



to attach the runner u can use panhead screws from the outside, or nylon m5 bolt/nuts completely thru the rub and baton. i would also probably use batons on the right side so the shelf is supported on three sides to prevent sagging.

like so










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

shelving conversion to caging

Value Shelving - Shelving from BiGDUG UK using model 150C, given the price and their heavy duty build theres no reason these cant make good viv stacks, they do however require significant modification, depending on the species to be housed and the room temp the rack is going in, ie is air heating needed or is the ambient high enough for a local hot spot/pad only.

150C Boltless Shelving, 5 Levels, 1780h x 900w x 600d mm, 200kg UDL, Blue










the walls and sides are a simple addition as there are plenty of fixing points for the shelving positions, they can be any material, chipboard varnished, melamine, foamboard, plywood










given the 600mm width and the material needed u can use a 23x11 but the 17x11 is an easier fit and the design is based around the 17x11










an aluminium sheet fixed over the top and u can put the mat internally as above










you can cut-out for the mats connector block, or route out a space for the block on the shelve below, a chisel will do just as good a job if its sharp (the shelf cut-out is the better design as the mat is completely isolated from the cage with a complete alu sheet)










reptile radiator assembly, 25mm dense craft foam with an aluminum top, this has a specific size, to insulate the radiator from the floor above but also to insulate the mat above from losing its energy thru the floor, so its a combination piece



















upper view of complete floor assembly (so the layers top to bottom are as follows alu sheet-heatmat-shelve-25mm foam-alu sheet-rep radiator)










upside down view 










one "cage" section










multiples










with glass, simplistic, no substrate barriers but thats a simple addon, i just didnt sketch it










there are much larger shelving units in their ranges, you can also do less cages per shelving unit for higher individual cage height (those unused shelves could become walls or sides). and if you were really ambitious its a cheap base for a single large arboreal unit for a special project. there is also enough room for any lighting u like, from leds to UV.

lastly if you go the metal shelving route http://www.bigdug.co.uk/shelving-c2/galvanised-shelving-c338 u can make more ambitious designs ie the heat mat could be sandwiched under each floor with the radiator assembly. they have some very large shelving units that can be combined together, so u truly can create considerable sized habitats with these modifications.

rgds
ed
ps the cage height in the design as set out above is @400mm


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## loxocemus

addendum's 

post#22 the deer antler branch idea was originally from jerry cole he used it for his chondros, iv used it for p.baroni. but its really only viable if u have local access to dropped antlers or like me u get lucky on a ebay auction (there are loads on there but most are sold for mounting or are small pieces for carving etc)

post#23 is not my idea but iv no idea where i saw it originally.

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

64lt rack from bay shelving Value Shelving - Shelving from BiGDUG UK 150B
Value Shelving, 5 Levels, 1780h x 900w x 450d mm 200kg UDL Blue

this is a lidless rack but the lid can still serve a purpose, fixed to the shelve underside, inverted, it serves as the box ceiling, its waterproof and has a nice rounded design which lets the box run smooth. the space inside the lid can also be used to house led strips for box lighting.










this mod requires little work, unlike the previous shelving cage mod. most of the work is drilling holes in the corner uprights to get the proper distances between the box lip and the inverted lid surface. i recommend temporarily holding the shelve in place with a clamp in each corner to get ur drill marks. u have to convert the fitting from hook/slot to nut/bolt, all that's needed is a hacksaw, steel file and a drill with a sharp bit, the steels fairly mild (there are ways to retain the 35mm boltless fitting using spacers)










this design also keeps the lower box well above floor level, and its cool air, @340mm up.










rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

water tank cage

there is a myriad of ways these could be modded this is just one.

250 Litres Tough Plastic Water Tank Rectangular










the rough virtual version 










rough dimensions are (OD) W925mm x D620mm x H1080mm










cut outs



















with simple 25mm aluminium angle frame, this trues the plastic walls and provides a fixing surface 










alu door frame










complete frame/door, door is simple 25mm alu tube and easyfix blocks



















for a water tub it doesnt look bad



















the cage can be broken down for transport, it can be horizontal, it could incorporate a drawer, an arboreal hide and everything else inbetween.

if u can think of it u can probably build it.

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

classic drop door cage conversion 

using the same tub as above, the bottom and top frames are made from upvc trim material. the door is easyfix aluminium tube and connectors with 5mm acrylic pane.



















rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

the arboreal version



















rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

replacement source for tanks as of post date Water Tank Right Angled 250ltr - Tanks Trays & Waterbutts - Progrow Hydroponics Price: £71.50

rgds
ed


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## loxocemus

this would make a good alternative to the hydroponics tank

https://www.solentplastics.co.uk/ta...allon-heavy-duty-static-plastic-storage-tank/

the other sizes could be modified for other species. one advantage of the natural colour is it transfers light quite well so light equipment can be external.

rgds
ed



loxocemus said:


> replacement source for tanks as of post date Water Tank Right Angled 250ltr - Tanks Trays & Waterbutts - Progrow Hydroponics Price: £71.50
> 
> rgds
> ed


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## Malc

Bloody 'ell - 86 quid for a plastic tub !!!


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## loxocemus

a tub thats L 903 x W 584 x H 595 mm internal, think of it this way a 3'x2'x2' plastic cage shell for £86.

one piece construction, round corners, easily sterilised, infinitely mod'able for £86

i suppose it all depends on what u want in a cage (and how much u enjoy modding and making something unique).

rgds and i hope u and urs are well my friend : victory:
ed





Malc said:


> Bloody 'ell - 86 quid for a plastic tub !!!


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## Grossman

Having a hide box off the floor makes all much sense to an arborel snake and frees up space


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## loxocemus

*The Sockerbit cage, from the Ground up*

IL add to this when possible

I saw this https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/sockerbit-storage-box-with-lid-white-20411524/

So I bought one just to spin around and consider if a useful design is possible with it.


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## loxocemus

the lid is of no use currently (im designing this on the fly), the dimensions minus lid are 745mm x 495mm x 178mm, like virtually all tubs there is a side taper, resulting in a floor space of 695mm x 440mm, all sizes are OD (outer dimension). the top has a 15mm lip so 30mm can be removed from the the top useable length.

this is the crude virtual tub, though its exact to within 1mm. one difference is the small finger grabs on the short sides have been removed, they will cause the tub to skew slightly when pulled out.


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## loxocemus

so the main cage materials can be various pvc products, melamine, mdf, plywood, multiply plastic roofing. all have pro's and cons, some be structural others filler panels, iv made the supporting frames with basic joinery using teak and oak. but by far the easiest to use is easy fix tubing

this time I like the look of this material https://www.cutplasticsheeting.co.uk/integral-foam-pvc/white-ex-cel-integral-foam-pvc/

at 10mm it can be structural, probably even with nutserts, but that would just be a box, if you want a basic box buy an off the shelf one, ul get a better finish for the money.


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## loxocemus

the easy fix system is 25mm tubing, usually aluminium and plastic hollow connectors, https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/easyfix-and-more , there are steel core connector versions, they are useful when the tubing is under torsion or of extended lengths, for this build their unnecessary as the side panels prevent any twisting.


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## loxocemus

(top) so this is simple virtual 25mm aluminium square tubing with appropriate connectors.

(bottom) there are various ways of mounting the wall panels, screws straight thru the tubing hitting the 5mm midpoint, this should be considered for non weight bearing panels as the panels load is taken up solely on the screw points. personally I don't particularly like seeing screw heads, but the screw could be recessed into the inner tube, and the hole capped with a piece of a plastic screwhead cap. any screws used should be stainless panheads


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## Malc

loxocemus said:


> this time I like the look of this material https://www.cutplasticsheeting.co.uk/integral-foam-pvc/white-ex-cel-integral-foam-pvc/
> 
> at 10mm it can be structural, probably even with nutserts, but that would just be a box, if you want a basic box buy an off the shelf one, ul get a better finish for the money.


As most commercial vivs use 18mm thick panels, to compare that with the PVC boards. 2.5m x 1.2m in 19mm thickness - £384 inc vat per sheet 

That could make a 4' x 2' x 2', with solid back and a single 60mm substrate retainer (or light shield depending which way up the thing is). If you wanted a second strip to hold the glass tracking in that would require a second sheet with a lot of leftover material.

4mm glass with edges ground all round, plastic tracking, and a couple of vents - £50 so you you could end up with a PVC 4x2x2 for around £420-£430.

If the 13mm material is used (personally I feel this is the minimum) you could shave off £123, so £300 all in

As for joining, I would probably use a solvent based poly adhesive that "welds" the two surfaces together rather than traditional screws.


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## loxocemus

all spot on malc, now you know why I have a thing for expensive giant plastic tubs. :2thumb:

I mean I suppose £300 is good for a pvc 4x2x2 but I build weird things because I probably put too much stock in design, I mean I made a teak rack with giant tubs on soft close rails just so I could play with the joinery (it killed my chisels and plane though, it was soo friggin hard), and I liked the finished hardwood colour, it was not cheap but it was pretty. i tested the shit out of it then I broke it apart and made a cage thing. I made a solid oak version that I built at a specific angle for a weird wall, I sold it before I could get a chance to re-morph into something else.

a boa guy asked me to make a rack (that might have been the Black goldfish tub one) and I almost said no because the design was just too mass produced but I made it anyway, I made an entire dual drawer cage just so I could inset stats in the fascia with all the electrics hidden, an animal never made it inside though before I repurposed it, I did test the shit out of it though, the stats were those stc-1000's, remember them, I really really liked their dependability, on/off with a useable small swing, I always think of the temp swings from basic stats as simulated cloud cover : victory:

I had a guy in Germany, no Austria maybe, Daniel with the dodgy English, he made me three multi channel stats, one four 2 eights's with lighting and misting channels on the 8's, I made a aluminium polypropylene monster rack just for the eight channel, each shelf contained the heating for the tub above and lighting for the tub below but limited to I think 28mm total thickness. my most important takeaway from that project, don't take the guard off ur chopsaw because it becomes a terrifying monster thereafter.

this company https://www.facebook.com/imcages/?e...ref=gs&dti=1378901919006736&hc_location=group makes very pretty designs, very well thought out, cnc's are beautiful things

I hope you know your post makes me want to abandon this design and buy a giant polypro water tank and do weird things to it:2thumb:

thanks for taking the time for ur input, its very useful information 

rgds
ed
PS I have an ex-cel sample, its very nice, very durable, worth the money?, if u can get it trade yes, retail eh I dunno, given the sparse pvcs products available probably yes, just based on its hard face



Malc said:


> As most commercial vivs use 18mm thick panels, to compare that with the PVC boards. 2.5m x 1.2m in 19mm thickness - £384 inc vat per sheet
> 
> That could make a 4' x 2' x 2', with solid back and a single 60mm substrate retainer (or light shield depending which way up the thing is). If you wanted a second strip to hold the glass tracking in that would require a second sheet with a lot of leftover material.
> 
> 4mm glass with edges ground all round, plastic tracking, and a couple of vents - £50 so you you could end up with a PVC 4x2x2 for around £420-£430.
> 
> If the 13mm material is used (personally I feel this is the minimum) you could shave off £123, so £300 all in
> 
> As for joining, I would probably use a solvent based poly adhesive that "welds" the two surfaces together rather than traditional screws.


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## loxocemus

so the structural tube would be the single finned version (there are various different forms, but often at a premium.)

different sides of the fin can be utilised for different products, the 6mm side for 5mm foamex and the 15mm side for multiply or ex-cel (sizes for a specific design, I couldn't find aluminium warehouse specs) , to make a unit of foamex using the 6mm fin side would be much cheaper, like 2/3rds cheaper https://www.plasticstockist.com/Palfoam-Foam-PVC-Sheet/White-Matt-Foamed-Pvc-Sheet.aspx but its less durable, you could consider the foamex panels replaceable though, ie as they stain or score, replace. this is one of the ideas behind the initial design, all panels are replaceable.

one of the advantages of pvc panels is self adhesive vinyl (fablon types) adheres to it strongly but comes off clean, meaning the interior (and exterior for that matter) can be any colour scheme u wish, and changeable as often as you wish. there is no chemical residue or drying time BUT I would avoid on the ceiling re heating/ fixing points without modifications.

PS I have used leaf green vinyl to waterproof the entire interior of a large female baroni's cage (it was the usual melamine board build), it worked out nicely


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## loxocemus

so this floor plan explained

the blue 745mm x 495mm is the tubs top OD

the red is the tub backset by 25mm, its not a good idea for the tub to be flush with the cage front, 15mm is all that prevents an escape.

Green is a 2mm gap either side of the tub

pink is extra width to get to 600mm, the minimum cage depth


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## loxocemus

this is the same floor plan but with the tub's base in yellow, its a tapered tub, but not extremely so, probably the most important tub feature after overall size.

these combinations form the inner length and depth of the cage, they also let u plan ur heatmat placement


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## loxocemus

the beginning's of the ground structure, this is made from plain tubing as the fin offsets don't allow for a flush panel, you could use a shim but I will use a custom fin, there are easier ways but this method is in keeping with the design I think


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## loxocemus

this fin is 25mm x 15mm, its just cheap unequal alu angle https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/25-mm-x-15-mm-x-2-mm-aluminium-angle it can be a different size, id probably go with 20 x 10 if my pop riveter head fit but I don't think it would. so to attach the fin use some 3m double sided tape, clean both pieces with acetone, both pieces will be very difficult to part, even just with the tape, add some rivets and the piece is permanent.

this is the preparation for the first of three horizontal panels, all this prep is to ensure the panel is flush with the tube surface, to allow an easy sliding action


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## Malc

The thing I like about this thread is that it shows outside the box (no punn intended) thinking. Looking at alternatives to the RUB and traditional melamine viv.

In the US you can walk into the equivalent of B&Q and pick up an 8'x2' sheet of 13mm ( PVC for $40 - so less than $100 (£75) for the amount needed for a standard 4 x 2 x 2 viv. 

Sadly PVC just hasn't caught on enough to be a cheap product in the UK


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## loxocemus

so this is the complete bottom piece, this piece is designed to hold 10mm ex-cel to take the weight of a sockerbit tub with a good depth of moist substrate, I know from xenopeltis experience this results in significant weight, so the piece has to be strong and resistant to twisting.

when you start this type of design you should think of the uses it will be put thru during its lifetime, this type of design lasts for a very long time, with replaceable panels it won't age or wear, it can be used for arid or heavily humid species without worrying about material cons. all gaps throughout the design should be no more than 1mm, this allows for tiny neonates ie a gravid garter, u can be safe knowing it is escape proof. also given the materials it can be thoroughly disinfected without damaging the materials. 

this design will not be corner siliconed. seam silicone'ing is originally from the aquarium hobby, its purpose in a typical wooden cage is to prevent water getting to the end grain, melamine despite its shiny surface cannot handle water very well, exposed chip swells very easily. silicone does not age well (though there are techniques during assembly that are more durable), eventually it begins to ribbon over the years and become unsightly, it would also prevent replaceable panels


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## loxocemus

the bottom piece requires an ex-cel panel 749mm x 575mm, when purchasing cut to size panels you have to be prepared for errors, not only in panel sizing, but also with ur own tube cuts, 1mm here and there means custom fitting. I would purchase the panel with an extra 1mm or 2, then using a sharp block plane, plane the panels till their a friction drop fit. the panel is held in place from below with just a few stainless 10mm pan head wood screws, their simply to hold the panel in place and are not structural.

Once complete the bottom piece can hold any tub volume, Inc water and will be impossible to twist.

the surface is flush fit for easy sliding


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## loxocemus

the design line so far


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## loxocemus

now is the time to think about the first electrical component, bottom heat for the tub, this will be achieved with a 18x11 mat, placement can be on the short or long side, ill chose long so the cable exits thru the rear of the unit.

this is where the floor spec overlay is essential


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## loxocemus

the pad placement, notice its offset, this is because of the wires terminal block, the tubs bottom surface will stop when it hits this block, there will be additional stoppers to position the tub anyway


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## loxocemus

the next dimension is not set but dictated by the build so far, ie an accumulated comedy of micro errors :2thumb: which is fine, because were not cnc's, handmade means just that

the dimension in question is the drawer compartment height

but its a simple formula, mat thickness + tub height + plus spacer height* = total height. *the spacer can be anything, cd's, coins, double sided taped to the tub rim. this allows free movement while remaining escape proof

so the false floor is in a lot of ways a mirror of the bottom but the ex-cel is in the hanging position (there is a alternative ie resting on a fin but that would add 2mm to the gap, but im not keen on that), so the false floor is fixed by recessed nylon bolts, this will allow for any upper volume weight, substrate cage furniture etc

the upper tube structure is missing fins, yet to be modelled


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## loxocemus

so the access hole is very important, its size and position, I use the biggest hole saw I have, which is 70 or 85mm, the hole size should ideally be two body thicknesses+. the hole is placed at the front because placing it at the back will break ur snakes neck :gasp: the snake is peeping out, u pull the drawer open the back of the drawer scissors against the front of the hole. 

the hole needs a substrate barrier and cap (coming next), the access hole should ideally be out of the cage lighting's line of sight, the drawer is an escape from light, from the upper cage, its purpose is to reinforce safety.


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## loxocemus

I used to use a drain pipe access and screw cap for the substrate barrier but their way overpriced, so a food tub around 100-110mm across and at least 75mm high, with a hole cut in the bottom the same size as the floor access hole. the tub lid lets you cap the drawer off, which is really handy for splitting pairs during feeding.

the tub is attached by two recessed nylon bolts, the floor is 10mm thick so there's plenty of room


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## loxocemus

the finished bottom level edit (- walls), you have two options in rgds to what you see inside fins or no fins, I like the fins look internal. finished drawer level height 179.5mm


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## loxocemus

a close up of a side rail, it comprises of the single fin tube with a 2nd riveted fin


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## loxocemus

finished bottom level v2, the top cage fins have been added


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## loxocemus

bottom level complete, more fins than a shoal of aluminium fish


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## loxocemus

so the next part, the upper cage, is keeper/species dependent, basically how high do you want it, the usual standard is 600mm, but the great thing about making ur own caging is the standard is what you say it is, just remember the higher you go the more it will affect temperature at floor level ie lower temps


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## loxocemus

+walls, you can have a solid substrate barrier at the front instead of clear acrylic.

still to go, ceiling with heat mod and hinged door


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## loxocemus

the only "heat panel" available in the UK is the 75w reptile radiator by habistat and I did model it because u can still find them but mostly only 2nd hand, alternatives are ceramics (trough, bulb) deep heat projectors by arcadia which is more suited to lower caging in my opinion, I don't recommend them for beginners, and halogen bulbs of various wattages, so I modeled a basic 2mm protective aluminium plate and a basic ceramic fitting, avoid plastic fittings.

you can arrange the cage furniture around the heat, or arrange the heat around a layout u particularly like


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## loxocemus

almost done


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## loxocemus

and thats it, simple acrylic door, you can also use glass but keep all tolerances tight, ie keep the door square, use 5mm bolts for 5mm holes. to attach the acrylic use 3m tape or screws, for glass use a bead of silicone.


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## loxocemus

the cost can be cut considerably by using foamex, 5mm for walls, 10mm for floors

so that's a simple design from scratch to finish


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## loxocemus

this is a much simpler design, much less metal work but a rivet gun and pop rivets are essential. its a very easy technique to learn. I consider a spring punch essential in marking out. pick ur hole placement, in this design im using 15mmx15mm 90'degree angle, so 15mm angle + 10mm plastic flute (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Co...n-Sheet-Plastic/401019289082?var=670547438932) = 25mm which is the tube thickness, spring punch the very centre of your mark, this stops the drill bit drifting when drilling. use a metal cut drill bit @1mm larger than the rivet and drill ur hole. if you can't find large enough headed rivets use washers. 

in the design I drew 2 nuts per 15mm angle because I was too lazy to do it accurately, ie the 15mm x 15mm angle is riveted to the tubing, and the fluted board is attached to the angle, and therefore the frame, by nylon nuts & bolts.


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## loxocemus

the placement of the angle face is determined by how you want ur panels placed, ie how many 15mm riveted angles do u want to see inside the cage. do you want a cleaner inside look (my preference) or a cleaner outside panel look. the panels are 10mm White Corrugated Fluted Board for the walls and *floors but there would need to be a mid supportive *tube, or attach *5mm flat bar on the Longside, midpoint, to support the substrates weight and prevent the panel from deforming.

PS all the pics iv posted, all the way up, can be triple clicked to get the original pic size, the detail is better.


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## Jibbajabba

Bloody hell - I wish I could use Sketchup like that.


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## loxocemus

your too kind, the issue I have after using sketchup a while is I keep trying to drag browser window contents about like in sketchup , its so annoying.

rgds
ed


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