# dwarf percentages



## snaketats (Oct 27, 2008)

Ok discussing with another member on here with a slight disagreement in how it all works.

normal size bred to dwarf = 
50% dwarfsized 50% normal sized(i understand this bit)
50% dwarf bred to dwarf = 
75% dwarf size 25% normal normal size
50% dwarf to normal = 25% dwarf size 75% normal size

so what is 50% dwarf bred to 50% dwarf outcomes? as these are also 50% normal and 50% normal?

brain is getting fried trying to make it work


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

It depends on whether the dwarfism is caused by a single gene or several independent genes.

If a single gene, then the result would be 25% dwarf, 50% heterozygous dwarf, 25% normal.

If several genes, each baby could be anywhere from 0% to 100% dwarf. ON AVERAGE, I'd go with 50% dwarf.


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## DanielF (Oct 31, 2010)

paulh said:


> It depends on whether the dwarfism is caused by a single gene or several independent genes.
> 
> If a single gene, then the result would be 25% dwarf, 50% heterozygous dwarf, 25% normal.
> 
> If several genes, each baby could be anywhere from 0% to 100% dwarf. ON AVERAGE, I'd go with 50% dwarf.


Even that made no sense to me :lol2:


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## eddygecko (Feb 14, 2007)

It dosn't work in percentages like that, you cannot get babies of different sizes from the same clutch. Of course there will be a bit of natural variation but nothing like the scale betwen a superdwarf and a mainland. 

You can only really produce dwarf morphs by crossing a male mainland morph to a female dwarf. Smaller females lay smaller eggs which obviously is the greatest factor influencing the potential size of the baby. Any combinaion from dwarf male to female mainland is likely to produce hatchlings close to, if not full size with the potential to reach large adult sizes. 

So a male mainland morph to a pure dwarf female will create 50% dwarfs. One of these male 50% dwarfs crossed back to a pure female dwarf will create 75% dwarfs.


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## snaketats (Oct 27, 2008)

eddygecko said:


> It dosn't work in percentages like that, you cannot get babies of different sizes from the same clutch. Of course there will be a bit of natural variation but nothing like the scale betwen a superdwarf and a mainland.
> 
> You can only really produce dwarf morphs by crossing a male mainland morph to a female dwarf. Smaller females lay smaller eggs which obviously is the greatest factor influencing the potential size of the baby. Any combinaion from dwarf male to female mainland is likely to produce hatchlings close to, if not full size with the potential to reach large adult sizes.
> 
> So a male mainland morph to a pure dwarf female will create 50% dwarfs. One of these male 50% dwarfs crossed back to a pure female dwarf will create 75% dwarfs.


thats great but none of this answered my question just told me what i do know. maybe its the way you took it or the way i put it down each animals percentages not the clutch percentages i.e 75% dwarf 25% normal making of one snakes pool of dwarf to normal size outcome.

im after the results from the offspring of this breeding when put back together.

50% dwarf bred to 50% dwarf = ????


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

Jay from Prehistoric Pets, goes into quite a bit of detail on Dwarfs/%'s etc here.
Starts around 15 minutes in

Reptile Radio 2008 May Archives


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

snaketats said:


> thats great but none of this answered my question just told me what i do know. maybe its the way you took it or the way i put it down each animals percentages not the clutch percentages i.e 75% dwarf 25% normal making of one snakes pool of dwarf to normal size outcome.
> 
> im after the results from the offspring of this breeding when put back together.
> 
> 50% dwarf bred to 50% dwarf = ????


How many gene pairs are required to make a dwarf? I sure don't know. 

For the sake of argument, let's say there are 5 gene pairs. If every pair contains two normal genes, the snake is normal size. If every pair contains two dwarf genes, the snake is pure dwarf. If every pair has one dwarf gene and one normal gene, the snake is 50% dwarf and smaller than normal but larger than a dwarf.

When a 50% dwarf produces sperm or eggs, one member of each gene pair goes into each sperm or egg. In other words, each of those 5 gene pairs gives the sperm or egg either a dwarf gene or a normal gene. A sperm or egg can have 5 normal genes or 5 dwarf genes or any number of dwarf genes between 0 and 5. It is equivalent to the flip of a coin for each gene pair. Heads = dwarf, tails = normal. 

Flip a coin 5 times. This is a sperm from a 50% dwarf. Flip a coin 5 times again. This is an egg from a 50% dwarf. Together they make a fertilized egg. Record the genes in each gene pair in the fertilized egg. Repeat the coin flips for another sperm and egg. I would expect the gene pairs in the two fertilized eggs to be different. Do enough of these, and you will get anything from zero dwarf genes to all dwarf genes. Average a large number of these results out, and the average is 50% dwarf genes and 50% normal genes.

An individual baby could have anywhere from 0% to 100% dwarf genes. There is no way to tell what an individual will be like until it grows up. But babies from a clutch of eggs would usually average out approximately 50% dwarf. 

Mating a 50% x 50% dwarf is gambling. A gambler can walk out of a casino dripping money, flat broke or somewhere in between. That's the equivalent of a single baby. But over the course of a year, the casino makes a profit because the results tend to average out. That is the equivalent of all the babies from many clutches of eggs.


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## ern79 (Jul 26, 2007)

snaketats said:


> thats great but none of this answered my question just told me what i do know. maybe its the way you took it or the way i put it down each animals percentages not the clutch percentages i.e 75% dwarf 25% normal making of one snakes pool of dwarf to normal size outcome.
> 
> im after the results from the offspring of this breeding when put back together.
> 
> 50% dwarf bred to 50% dwarf = ????


the simple answer is you get more 50% dwarf


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