# Many questions from a newbie!



## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Hi all, I am posting this on behalf of my son. Please bear with me, as I know nothing about Bearded Dragons!! :blush:

I did try to email [email protected] (having read one of his previous replies to another member). Unfortunately, my email bounced back.

So here goes.........
We bought a beadie last Wednesday from Pets at Home, and was told we needed x, y and z!!!

The 4ft viv came with two digital thermometers (fixed to the outside) a basking lamp, 2 other lights (sorry for my ignorance, I know nothing about them, my son has been doing the research), feeding bowl, water bowl,calci powder and 2 bags of dessert sand. We then had to buy seperatley, (as we were told we needed them), a heat mat, (some other powder beginning with N, sorry I've forgotten what it is) some hoppers (plus something to keep them in, and the powder food and gel stuff for them).

They said to buy two timers, so that the lights and the basking lamp were on for 12 hours a day, and then when they go off, the heat mat should be set to come on for another 12 hours. Are we doing that right?

They have told us the beardie is only about 16 weeks old, and said it was eating "No.4 hoppers" three at a time, therefore said to buy a box of 50!! Since bringing it home, it has not eaten anything (salad or hoppers)......infact, when my son put a hooper in the viv, the beardie just sat there and let it climb on it's head. He only left it in the viv for about 5-10mins and could see that the beardie was not interested at all.
Is this normal? The size of the hoppers seem far too big in my opinion, (my son said when he researched it, it said "do not feed it anything bigger than the distance between it's eyes".........well, this No.4 hopper is definatley bigger than that. 

We are concerned that it is not eating/drinking. My son has been trying to give it drops of water from a syringe. Is this just the "settling-in period"?

Also, is it normal for the beardie to go into the corners of the viv and just scratch the wood (almost as though it's digging)?

We have so far not even seen it go over to the cooler side of the viv, it just seems to constantly be either on the bottom or on the shelf over on the warmer side of the viv........again, is this normal?

My son has been handling the beardie, and there are no problems there.....the beardie does not struggle etc. He has been told he should not have the beardie out of the viv for longer than 10 minutes??? 

I read a few posts on the forum where they were talking about temperatures. How can these be adjusted (if/when necessary), as there is no switch etc......again, apologies if this is a daft question.

Sorry for rambling on and on!ha ha From reading a few of your posts, it appears you know what you are talking about.....whereas we keep getting contradicting information from Pets at Home!

Many thanks in advance


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

:welcome:he is probably just settling in still could you give us some details and we may help 
what temps do you have at hot end, cold end and at basking spot
if you can keeep it on kitchen towel until it around 6 months or so if not use tiles or lino 
as to the dancing up the side of the viv they all seem to do it mine love doing it they normaly glass dance 
you can leave a few locusts in the viv a day or two just leave fresh veg as well he will suddenly start eating 
try not to handle him for a few days this may help him settle just go in to feed and clean out
as to water i dont have water dishes in either of my bearded dragon vivs as they get water from their food
his food needs dusteed with calcium five days and nutroabal two days


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks for replying.......

Pets at Home told us we definately needed sand??? (big sales pitch no doubt)!

Having read the post for what food they can eat etc, we were told he could have cress, red pepper, rocket and grated carrot, but to avoid cucumber and ice-berg lettuce. She said we were to chop the food very fine and put a small amount in the dish(which is about 2 or 3 rocket leaves and 1 slice of pepper chopped up....that's what she had got)??? Also we were to alternate between putting calci powder one day and the other powder the next day.

Having read on here, some people feed "a pile of greens" etc, but as I have mentioned, we were told only a small amount.

With regards to the temperatures, should I read these first thing in a morning, in the evening, or throughout the day?

I will tell my son not to handle the beardie for a few days.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> Pets at Home told us we definately needed sand??? (big sales pitch no doubt)!


No, no, no :bash:. Babies under 6 months of age should be on no particulate substrate at all. Take the sand out and keep it until he's older. Use kitchen towel, lino, newspaper or a bare floor.



> The 4ft viv came with two digital thermometers (fixed to the outside)


Did I read that right, they are on the outside of the viv :gasp:. If so then they need to be on the inside, one at the hot end, one at the cool end where they can read the temps.



> We then had to buy seperatley, (as we were told we needed them), a heat mat


Ho hum the usual pet shop advice again. Heat mats are no good for beardies as they feel heat from above not below and they can potentially burn themselves on them. To be honest most homes do not need night time heating as the temps rarely drop low enough to cause problems. Around 60f is fine for a beardie at night.



> (some other powder beginning with N)


That would be Nutrobal a multi vitamin. This should only be used once/twice a week only. The pure calcium powder should be given on one feed every day.



> They have told us the beardie is only about 16 weeks old, and said it was eating "No.4 hoppers" three at a time, therefore said to buy a box of 50!!


Right for a start a beardie of that age will need feeding at least twice a day with approx. 12-20 insects each feed. Now locusts are expensive to feed as a staple diet when that amount is needed so I would advise you try crickets instead, the correct size of course. He should be fed twice a day until he's roughly 4 months of age when he will probably slow down.



> We are concerned that it is not eating/drinking. My son has been trying to give it drops of water from a syringe. Is this just the "settling-in period"?


They do suffer from re-location stress so may not eat for a week or so but you are right to be concerned about the drinking he must be kept hydrated. You can carry on with the syringe or you could try a little lukewarm bath. I always have water bowls in with my beardies.



> Also, is it normal for the beardie to go into the corners of the viv and just scratch the wood (almost as though it's digging)?


Yes.



> We have so far not even seen it go over to the cooler side of the viv, it just seems to constantly be either on the bottom or on the shelf over on the warmer side of the viv........again, is this normal?


This could be because the temps are not warm enough at the warm end/basking spot. What are they. They should be at least 105-110f. This temps should be directly under the lamp. The cool end should be no higher than 80f.


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## Purple_D (Jan 18, 2009)

Im no expert on beardies, but this is how i deal with mine.
I have a uv light strip(12%) roughly the length of the viv,at one end a spot light bulb for basking spot(normal house bulb) running on a dimmer stat.Temps around 105 hot spot when young and a tad lower as they get older.Food, crickets or locust about the same size as the gap between their eyes,dust with calcium powder 5 times a week,and nutribol powder 2 times a week.Veg i just give the spring greens,buy the bag from asda.No water.No need for heat at night,all lights on a timer, Unless your house is freezing ie below around 14-16 at night take the mat back.
Most important is do not use the mat unless you have it on a thermostat.


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Debbie1962 said:


> No, no, no :bash:. Babies under 6 months of age should be on no particulate substrate at all. Take the sand out and keep it until he's older. Use kitchen towel, lino, newspaper or a bare floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you adjust the temperature? 105f is around 40c......we were told it had to be lower than that. The lights and the basking lamp are both on a timer for 12 hours, then the heat mat comes on for 12 hours.
However, I will tell my son to remove the mat as you have suggested.

Sorry again, if these seem really silly questions :blush:


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

You need a thermostat for any heat source to control and prevent the heating from cooking the animal. You set this at the temp you want connect your heating through it and it (hopefully) keeps the temps at waht they should be.

A lamp can get well over 40CF and a mat can get hotter than 40C too. 

What is the temperature at the moment.

And yes you can bath a dragon in the sink or a large ehough tub with some water in it. Only use tepid water and not too deep.


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> You need a thermostat for any heat source to control and prevent the heating from cooking the animal. You set this at the temp you want connect your heating through it and it (hopefully) keeps the temps at waht they should be.
> 
> A lamp can get well over 40CF and a mat can get hotter than 40C too.
> 
> ...


just checked the temps and they are: 21.1c (69f) and 29.0c(84f). if i go and buy a thermostat, how do i connect it (is it self-explanatory when you buy it)?


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## Purple_D (Jan 18, 2009)

SamAlex said:


> just checked the temps and they are: 21.1c (69f) and 29.0c(84f). if i go and buy a thermostat, how do i connect it (is it self-explanatory when you buy it)?


Yeh, you just plug it in and away you go, the probe goes under the heat bulb.
With those temps it sounds like the bulb is not a big enough wattage, try a bigger spot light.Could be the reason its not eating.
PS, you need a dimming thermostat:2thumb:


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## emmaalyafai (Jan 4, 2012)

*dont buy your reptiles from bloody pets at home they aint got a clue-go to a reptile shop or dealer*


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

emmaalyafai said:


> *dont buy your reptiles from bloody pets at home they aint got a clue-go to a reptile shop or dealer*


 my [email protected] are good about reptiles just because some are crap does not mean they all are 

to the original poster 
the thermostat you need is a dimming hermostat they are easy to use 
as to the heat bulb go to b & q or some wher like them and buy some household reflector type bulbs (i get mine on e bay eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace are the ones i buy ) as they are a damm sight cheaper


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

So they didn't tell you that needed a thermostat either :gasp:. Unfortunately you do and they are expensive, around £35-£40.00. 



> Ho hum the usual pet shop advice again. Heat mats are no good for beardies as they feel heat from above not below and they can potentially burn themselves on them. To be honest most homes do not need night time heating as the temps rarely drop low enough to cause problems. Around 60f is fine for a beardie at night.
> Flippin' great! That's £18 wasted then lol


Fraid so allthough you may be able to sell it on, you probably won't get full price for it though. Or you could save it and later get a gecko or something that uses a heat mat lol.



> Right for a start a beardie of that age will need feeding at least twice a day with approx. 12-20 insects each feed. Now locusts are expensive to feed as a staple diet when that amount is needed so I would advise you try crickets instead, the correct size of course. He should be fed twice a day until he's roughly 4 months of age when he will probably slow down.
> Are crickets the one's they in the shop refer to as "hoppers, no.4 etc). Would he still have veg at the same time? Should I throw away the hoppers we currently have......as mentioned, they do seem rather big?


No, hoppers are small locusts which are a yellow colour. Crickets are usually either brown or black. The thing with locusts is that a bigger size can be fed but not with crickets. So see how he goes with them when he starts eating if he looks as if he's struggling to swallow them then don't feed him them but he should be okay I think. Just trying to visualise size 4 hoppers lol.



> They do suffer from re-location stress so may not eat for a week or so but you are right to be concerned about the drinking he must be kept hydrated. You can carry on with the syringe or you could try a little lukewarm bath. I always have water bowls in with my beardies.
> Silly question no doubt......how would my son bath it? In the sink, it's water bow??


A small shall bowl or tub is fine, Just let the amount of water be enough to cover his tummy but not enough to go over his shoulders. Never ever leave a dragon unattended whilst bathing, they have been known to drown.



> How do you adjust the temperature? 105f is around 40c......we were told it had to be lower than that.


105f is fine for the basking spot. If your struggling to keep it as high as that then you may need a higher wattage bulb.



> The "probe" end is in the viv, but the actual digital reader is on the outside.


Okay that's fine then.


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

I have checked in the leaflet that came with the viv (it was a package deal from P at H):
1x Viv
1x Double Light Starter Unit 30W
1x Repto Glo Fluorescent Bulb 2% UVB
1x " " " " 10% "
1x Medium Glow Light Reflector
1x Sun Glo Basking Lamp 100W
2x Digital Thermometers
2x Sandpaper Mats
1x Bag of Desert Sand
2x Bags of Calci Sand
1x Water Bowl
1x Feeding Bowl
1x Calci Powder

So.........going from the Wattage of bulbs etc, would you say these are strong enough? And if not, why are P at H selling them?!!

We have unplugged the heat mat and have started to take the sand out and will disenfect it (with correct spray, not household stuff!)

Oh and another thing to add.......it appears Alex (that is what my son has named him) has worms!! When checking on him yesterday, I found what looked like a little worm thing attached to his poo (which infact is the first one he has done since having him last Wednesday). You are probably going to think I'm mad.....I put it in a container and took it to P at H!! They confirmed it was worms and said I needed to buy some wormer at nearly £9. I asked where he had managed to get them from if he hasn't been eating etc, the chap said "oh he probably got them from the beardie he was sharing with before you bought him":devil:

The digital thermometer is an ExoTerra. In the operating instructions it says: "press the min/max button once to display the maximum temp readout". "Press the min/max button twice to display the minimum temp readout". "Press the the min/max button 3 times to return to the current temp". "Press the button for 2 secs to reset the min & max temps". So having done all this, do I still need to buy a thermostat?:blush:

Many thanks


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

SamAlex said:


> Oh and another thing to add.......it appears Alex (that is what my son has named him) has worms!! When checking on him yesterday, I found what looked like a little worm thing attached to his poo (which infact is the first one he has done since having him last Wednesday). You are probably going to think I'm mad.....I put it in a container and took it to P at H!! They confirmed it was worms and said I needed to buy some wormer at nearly £9. I asked where he had managed to get them from if he hasn't been eating etc, the chap said "oh he probably got them from the beardie he was sharing with before you bought him":devil:
> 
> The digital thermometer is an ExoTerra. In the operating instructions it says: "press the min/max button once to display the maximum temp readout". "Press the min/max button twice to display the minimum temp readout". "Press the the min/max button 3 times to return to the current temp". "Press the button for 2 secs to reset the min & max temps". So having done all this, do I still need to buy a thermostat?:blush:
> 
> Many thanks


Ooo dear.
If you think the dragon has worms then I'd be more inclined to take a poop sample to a decent vet for feacal tests - you can ask them to test for everything else as well to make sure he's ok, prefereably one with knowledge of reptiles as they can then treat any problem as well. I wouldn't just buy a wormer [email protected] suggested since it doesn't appear they totally clued up here anyway.

The digital thermometer is fine, it will record the highest and lowest temps of the day and yes you still need a thermostat - any heat source should be on a thermostat.


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## Parrot Lady (Jan 17, 2012)

We have also recently purchased a bearded dragon from a reptile shop, we bought him home on Saturday, he is 12 weeks ago, and although he had 3 crickets, 12 mealworms and some greens Saturday afternoon, and 3 crickets, 1 hopper and a couple of mealworms on Sunday, he hasnt eaten anything since, he also as far as we know hasnt had a drink either. We knew it would take time for the little guy to settle in but it is a worry and sounds like it is for you too. We have not had reptiles before so are new to this also. I am going to ring the reptile shop this morning when it opens for any advice. Ours has its head up and tail but looks sleepy, I dont know if he is just relaxed or ill. We have read books and know its not unusual for them to go through this stage but it is a worry none the less.


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> Ooo dear.
> If you think the dragon has worms then I'd be more inclined to take a poop sample to a decent vet for feacal tests - you can ask them to test for everything else as well to make sure he's ok, prefereably one with knowledge of reptiles as they can then treat any problem as well. I wouldn't just buy a wormer [email protected] suggested since it doesn't appear they totally clued up here anyway.
> Should I just ring my local vets and ask if they handle reptiles? Do you think they are likey to charge me just to do a feacal test?
> 
> The digital thermometer is fine, it will record the highest and lowest temps of the day and yes you still need a thermostat - any heat source should be on a thermostat.


So, if I get a thermostat(asap), it will adjust the temp accordingly (if goes up or down)?
Sorry to keep asking the same things!
Also, what should I do about the bulbs(as previously mentioned), are these ok?


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

Parrot Lady said:


> We have also recently purchased a bearded dragon from a reptile shop, we bought him home on Saturday, he is 12 weeks ago, and although he had 3 crickets, 12 mealworms and some greens Saturday afternoon, and 3 crickets, 1 hopper and a couple of mealworms on Sunday, he hasnt eaten anything since, he also as far as we know hasnt had a drink either. We knew it would take time for the little guy to settle in but it is a worry and sounds like it is for you too. We have not had reptiles before so are new to this also. I am going to ring the reptile shop this morning when it opens for any advice. Ours has its head up and tail but looks sleepy, I dont know if he is just relaxed or ill. We have read books and know its not unusual for them to go through this stage but it is a worry none the less.


 It is very much a worry!!
We have done everything we were told by P at H, and yet from what the good people on this forum have said, it appears some of it was unneccessary/wrong! Hope your beardie picks up soon


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## amylovesreptiles (Apr 22, 2009)

ahhh the usual pets at home advice, yet again :bash:
just listen to the above comments and the new addition to your family will be just fine


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Generally worms cannot be seen with the naked eye. I would get a fecal sample tested as if he does have worms it will depend on the type of worms he has that may need a treatment only available from a vet. Most of the over the counter treatments are only good for low general worm counts. A fecal sample will also detect coccidia etc. which needs treating a.s.a.p.



> Also, what should I do about the bulbs(as previously mentioned), are these ok?


The basking lamp should be fine.


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## Dibles (Nov 7, 2011)

First thing is do not go to pets at home!!! It sounds like you have more than enough stuff to keep your beardie happy all you need to do is learn how to use it and learn about the lizard and it's requirements. Most important thing now is find your nearest reptile shop!!! If it's 10 miles away its the best 10 miles when compared to the trips to pets at home! Hopefully your nearest reptile shop will be helpfully enough to offer you the support and advice you Require. Get a decent book as a reference aid or search the net for beardie care sheets. Read 5 different ones and you will soon get a good understanding. Sadly this is an ever increasing problem which pets at home are causing to reptile keeping!


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## Lexilou2 (Jan 7, 2012)

We got our beardie last thursday so know what you are going through.

Ours is about 4 months old so similar age, we have his basking between 42 and 44 degrees c and that seems to suit him, he does his little panting thermoregulating thing but he is very active, runs around, basks, but also sits in the cool end.

A thermostat needs to be attached to the lighting. This one is highly recommended and the cheapes place I found it was Surrey Pet supplies (they do deliver and far cheaper than ebay)
Habistat Dimming Thermostat 600w - Surrey Pet Supplies
The thermostat stops the bulb getting too hot, if the bulbs on for 12 - 14 hours a day its going to get hotter throughout the day, so a dimming thermostat kicks in and dims the bulb to keep the temperature in line.

If you are failing to get a high enough temperature, get a 60 watt screw spot bulb from a normal shop.

Best way to hydrate them is to pop them in a warm bath, up to their shoulders. A small warning, bathing tends to make them poop, so use a tupperware tub something similar that can just be used a a beardie bath tub.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

SamAlex said:


> Should I just ring my local vets and ask if they handle reptiles? Do you think they are likey to charge me just to do a feacal test?


Yes, ring round and see if anyone has a vet with knowledge of reptiles.
You can also look in the sticky section on here as there is a list of vets in various areas.
They will charge for tests and a consultation.

Where are you from, maybe someone can recommend one?


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

How do i get the temp to reach 40c? The max our's gets to is 30c..... obviously doing something wrong?

Been to P at H this morning and asked them about a thermostat, they said they do not use them and I do not need one! Told him i'd been reading on forums, he said "well that's up to you who you believe" :gasp:......charming!!!

He contradicted himself cause I asked about bathing (as suggested on here) and he said yes, but then later said not to handle the beardie for a couple of weeks, let him settle......I thought, well how do i bath him without handling him??:bash:


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Did you not ask how to get the right temperature at [email protected]? I'd be interested in hearing the naff response.
They've clearly not given you enough correct information or made sure your set up is adequate to do the job and tbh I think I'd be avoiding them like the plague and finding myself a reptile shop with knowledge of the animal I had to go to.

The only way to increase the temperature is to buy a larger/higher wattage bulb or a ceramic heater.
Are you going to sit there 24/7 turning it on and off to make sure it doesn't get too hot or cold?
If not you will need a thermostat to control it. Specially if you use a ceramic - they can get to 700C!!

Where are you measuring your temperature from and with what? This maybe the problem.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> Been to P at H this morning and asked them about a thermostat, they said they do not use them and I do not need one!


That would probably because, in the tanks I've seen at P&H, the light are so far up they would never get that hot anyway, nor would the beardie get enough warmth at the bottom of the tank :bash: .



> How do i get the temp to reach 40c? The max our's gets to is 30c..... obviously doing something wrong?


Maybe you need another size up from the bulb you have.


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## SamAlex (Jan 16, 2012)

The bulb in the basking lamp is 100W, and that is the biggest they do in my local P at H.

The digital thermometers are on the outside, and the probes are just above the substrate on the cool side, and near the shelf on the hot side.

He is still not eating......bought some crickets today and some spring greens and butternut squash, but he's not interested in any of it. Had him a week now, how long should I leave it before I should be concerned?


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## Parrot Lady (Jan 17, 2012)

To be honest if I were you I would find my nearest specialist reptile shop and have a chat with them, they will point you in the right direction and you can then build up a relationship with them for any future requirements, they will also know the nearest reptile vet. As the local vet down the road may not specialise in reptiles (although he will probably know the basics). We have a parrot and her vet is 40 mins drive away, so you may have to travel but it will be worth it in the long run. You think he may have worms so I would take him to a vet asap and he can then give him a check over at the same time, unfortuantely I do not know much about reptiles as we have only had our bearded dragon for less than a week, but I do know with parrots that if you think there is something wrong then you need to get to the vets asap. We bought our little guy from a reptile shop and the owner has been great, firstly with all the basic set up information, heating, lighting, looking after live food etc, we have telephoned him on numerous occasions to check things out and he has always been very helpful (even though some of the questions im sure he has probably heard a million times!). His respect, admiration and knowledge of his reptiles is inspiring and you can tell to him its not just a job, its more than that, its his passion, his life. I would definately recommend going to a specialist shop in the future.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> The bulb in the basking lamp is 100W


That should be hot enough unless you have a extremely large viv? Are you reading the temps at ground level directly under the bulb?


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

SamAlex said:


> The digital thermometers are on the outside, and the probes are just above the substrate on the cool side, and near the shelf on the hot side.


Move you're hot end probe to under the bulb, where he would sit to bask.


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