# Express eventing - anyone else go? Very sad :(



## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

Well we've just been up to Cardiff to watch the first "Express Eventing" international cup.

Was a fab day out, apart from being very cold, but it was spoiled by that awful fall Mary King took - not 100% what's happened to her horse Call Again Cavalier but he didn't look good. Looked like he broke a leg or his pelvis...  His right hind looked like it was just swinging from the hip, when he eventually got to his feet.

Did anyone else go?


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## LisaD (Jun 1, 2008)

Hi, I didn't go, and hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Cavvy had to be put down following breaking his leg.
Deepest sympathies go to Mary King and her team!

Sounds like you had a good day other than the fall!

Lisa x


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

LisaD said:


> Hi, I didn't go, and hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Cavvy had to be put down following breaking his leg.
> Deepest sympathies go to Mary King and her team!
> 
> Sounds like you had a good day other than the fall!
> ...


Don't worry, I have just been reading a couple of threads on a horse forum about it. It was a good day although the course was really tough - out of 18 top riders, only 6 finished. Well done to Ollie Townend for his win, his round was stunning.

Just such a shame the day finished with such a tragedy...

We didn't think there was much hope for him, poor lad, when he managd to get up it was obvious he'd done something major - he couldn't even put the leg down, it was just kind of hanging there. Awful thing to happen  

RIP Cavvy.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

ah thats such a sad thing to read
R.I.P cavvy


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

medusa0373 said:


> Well we've just been up to Cardiff to watch the first "Express Eventing" international cup.
> 
> Was a fab day out, apart from being very cold, but it was spoiled by that awful fall Mary King took - not 100% what's happened to her horse Call Again Cavalier but he didn't look good. Looked like he broke a leg or his pelvis...  His right hind looked like it was just swinging from the hip, when he eventually got to his feet.
> 
> Did anyone else go?


 If horses take part in extreme jumping and having to haul tired bodies over obstacles whether eventing or steeplechasing, there will be deaths and casualties. Still nothing was lost, he was insured so she can get another horse to play on until she breaks that one too.
I hate horse sports and dog racing because of the utter cruelty involved and the casualties.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> If horses take part in extreme jumping and having to haul tired bodies over obstacles whether eventing or steeplechasing, there will be deaths and casualties. Still nothing was lost, he was insured so she can get another horse to play on until she breaks that one too.
> I hate horse sports and dog racing because of the utter cruelty involved and the casualties.


Well said fenwoman. I couldn't agree more.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

poor horse there should be NO need for horses to have accidents like that


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

from working in racing stables for 11 years i have seen more accidents then you lot could even dream of seeing, and most of them were from accidents from being ridden NOT on the race course accidents happen an broken limbs on a horse mostly come from weakness's in there bones. If a horse DIDNT want to jump believe me IT WOULDNT horses are the most stubborn animal i know if they don't want to do something believe me they wont do it. It is heartbreaking to see ya horse shot or in pain from doing a tendon NOT all horses are insured so therefore you wouldn't get money back on it. These animals in most case's are well loved an well looked after, i know the ones i looked after wanted for nothing. Do you have any experience in stables???? do you know what goes on behind the scenes??? what about all the other horses, dogs that are used for sport/work?? hunting dogs, show ponies etc is it cruel for them to be worked the way they were breed for???

Horses are very close to my heart an thats why i have posted on here responding to your negatives. People are to quick to jump in an say 
"oh thats bad its horrible horses shouldn't do this horses shouldn't do that " utter rubbish horses were breed for working an racing same as dogs!!!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> from working in racing stables for 11 years i have seen more accidents then you lot could even dream of seeing, and most of them were from accidents from being ridden NOT on the race course accidents happen an broken limbs on a horse mostly come from weakness's in there bones.


I don't believe it. If there is a bone weakness, it would show up before the horse was several years old and had been racing or eventing.



> If a horse DIDNT want to jump believe me IT WOULDNT


You don't really believe that do you? I mean, you and I both know that horses are trained to obey. If they don't obey or are uncontrollable, they get put down. Simple. Plus a horse canters up to a jump and refuses and what happens? A couple of stinging cracks with the crop soon persuade it, jump or you will be hurt. And please don't tell me that whipping a horse doesn't hurt it either. They have sensitive skin. Ever seen a fly land on a horse in summer and see it's flesh quiver. So if it feels the fly, why not the whip?



> It is heartbreaking to see ya horse shot or in pain from doing a tendon NOT all horses are insured so therefore you wouldn't get money back on it.


Racehorses, eventers, show jumpers, dressage horses etc will mostly be insured because the owner knows the high risk of the horse breaking something and since it costs a lot of money and a long time to fix a broken leg, it is more cost effective to shoot the beggar and claim the insurance money.Yes folks, their legs can be fixed just like your leg or your dog's leg can be fixed but it's cheaper to kill it and buy another with the insurance money.KNow why they shoot them instead of a lethal injection? So that they can get a few quid back off the knackerman to be sold for pet food. Lethal injection means the carcasse is unuseable.



> These animals in most case's are well loved an well looked after, i know the ones i looked after wanted for nothing.


You looked after vcaluable horses. Once they stopped winning races they get sent to Belgium or France to be turned into dog meat. Did you really not know what happens to ex racehorses?



> Do you have any experience in stables???? do you know what goes on behind the scenes???


 er yes actually because my ex husband's father worked for a well known trainer in Newmarketwhich is where he came from and near where we lived.



> what about all the other horses, dogs that are used for sport/work?? hunting dogs, show ponies etc is it cruel for them to be worked the way they were breed for???


please explain why you imagine showing ponies would be cruel or dangerous to them. They aren't forced to perform to the last of their strength then whipped on a bit more to take jumps even though their hearts are bursting . Oops, yes, that happens to racehorses too doesn't it?
Hunting dogs operate to the limit of their ability. There is nobody whipping them to force them to carry on beyond their strength.By sporting dogs, I'm assuming you mean HPR type dogs? Again no risk of them dying is there? Nobody whipping them to run and leap even though they are at the point of exhaustion.



> Horses are very close to my heart an thats why i have posted on here responding to your negatives. People are to quick to jump in an say
> "oh thats bad its horrible horses shouldn't do this horses shouldn't do that " utter rubbish horses were breed for working an racing same as dogs!!!


 Working is one thing, racing is another and as I said, I am fervently opposed to dog racing too if we are talking about greyhound racing or any form where there is big money to be made because when money comes in the windor, ethics fly out of the door. I am very surprised that you can say that you love horses and in the same breath say that you like horse racing and eventing. Tell me of one occasion where a farmer goes out to pot some pheasants with his labradors or spaniels, and the dog gets killed or breaks a bone while doing so.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Well said Fenny:2thumb:My friend has had 2 horses put to sleep by a vet.1 because she had Laminitis and her peedle bone broke through and 1 as he was a very old ex eventer that was retired to my friends after an injury and he suffered kidney failure after living a happy retirement at her farm as a pet. It was a very peaceful ending for both of them


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Not going to get into the debate on whether eventing is right or not, all I can say is R.I.P Cavvy, what a huge loss, they were a fantastic partnership.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I don't believe it. If there is a bone weakness, it would show up before the horse was several years old and had been racing or eventing.
> 
> 
> You don't really believe that do you? I mean, you and I both know that horses are trained to obey. If they don't obey or are uncontrollable, they get put down. Simple. Plus a horse canters up to a jump and refuses and what happens? A couple of stinging cracks with the crop soon persuade it, jump or you will be hurt. And please don't tell me that whipping a horse doesn't hurt it either. They have sensitive skin. Ever seen a fly land on a horse in summer and see it's flesh quiver. So if it feels the fly, why not the whip?
> ...


 Fenwoman old dear . by your own admission you know nowt about horses, so dont spoil this thread with your venom , horses love to jump and gallop across country , and my horse is an EX racehorse and he is very much alive , he cost his first owner 2500 quid and never won a race , (was last in 8 races ) but they loved him enough to make sure he got rehomed and not destroyed heartlessly as you are making out , hundreds of ex racehorses go on to become happy hackers and competition horses..And as far as money goes its the same as dog breeding i beleive thats all about money and prestige just like horse racing and are you not an ex breeder. why the hell you couldnt just sympathise with mary king and the poor horse is beyond me , but i guess you just cant help yourself can you . Its a tragic accident and accidents do happen and a horse can show a weakness in later years , as a direct result of bone weakness due to congenital weakness.I used to breed welsh mountain ponies and one of my stallions was kicked by a mare and she broke his leg and he had to be shot , tragic accident and congenital weakness combined he was 6 years old......And no a lot of horses are not insured especially high risk competition horses coz the insurance companys wont touch them , or the premiums are rediculously high .........You did it again fenwoman , you poisioned another thread .... RIP Cavvy and My condolences to Kary King.....JUST a note about showing you state that it is not dangerous , it is to a show pony/horse that is kept stabled most of its life and fed rediculous amounts of food to make it fat enough to show, it either blows its brains or gets laminitits , thats why i stopped breeding welsh ponies coz i didnt agree with the way the animals are produced........


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

Tis a shame when this stuff happens but iv never understood why a horse witha leg injury gets PTS. Can they not recover from such an injury??

I remember years ago going to a Point 2 Point with my parents that happens often in the village i used to live in. during one of the races the horse decided it didn't want to go over the jump, but around it via a narrow gap that had been left. The jockey was frantically trying to pull the horse back and the horse did respond but not enough. He ran at full gallop straight through the end section of the jump which was made from wood. Jump smashed to bits, jockey thrown a fair distance and the horse flew threw the barrier in to the crowd right where we were standing. Luckily everone was unhurt but it was then we realised the horse had a piece of 4x2 protruding from its shoulder area. Not a nice thing to see at all.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

With most serious leg injuries such as breaks then the only option is to be put to sleep. They can't manage on three legs like other animals. That being said, a few years back now one of the horses on my old yard had an accident in the field (total fluke) and fractured his leg (Don't THINK it was a break. I think I was about 12 at the time though lol so going way back now). The vet told the yard owner that the easiest option would be to euthanise. The yard owner asked what her options other than that were, and he said complete box rest..as in, no room to move at all, (and even then it wasn't a guarantee, and the bone would always be weaker.) Just literally boxed in, also a harness for the first few months to support the weight.

Can't remember how long Baby was in the adapted stable for, but it must have been easily 6 months. After which xrays were done, and the vet saw him to make sure he was in fact better. After that they had to slowly get his fitness back up, and build his muscle tone back up. Could never be a competition/show horse, but they were just happy that he was still alive. He was just used as a field companion and light hacking in the end. Gorgeous little arabian he was, pretty thing.

I don't think cavvy's injury would have been treatable,it sounds like he broke his femur. He was apparantly rushed from the scene in a horse ambulance but had to be euthanised. Call Again Cavalier put down after Express Eventing fall - Equestrian news, equine news, horse news - Horse & Hound < taken from there.


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

i know this is a bit random but how long do horses live for ive always wondered :blush:

R.I.P cavvy its so sad


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

georgieabc123 said:


> i know this is a bit random but how long do horses live for ive always wondered :blush:
> 
> R.I.P cavvy its so sad



All depends on the animal to be honest, just like it does with dogs, humans etc. Eldest on our old yard was Kimble who was roughly 33.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I don't believe it. If there is a bone weakness, it would show up before the horse was several years old and had been racing or eventing.
> 
> 
> You don't really believe that do you? I mean, you and I both know that horses are trained to obey. If they don't obey or are uncontrollable, they get put down. Simple. Plus a horse canters up to a jump and refuses and what happens? A couple of stinging cracks with the crop soon persuade it, jump or you will be hurt. And please don't tell me that whipping a horse doesn't hurt it either. They have sensitive skin. Ever seen a fly land on a horse in summer and see it's flesh quiver. So if it feels the fly, why not the whip?
> ...


 
Firstly please don't question my knowledge on racehorses i clearly know a damn sight more then you.

Not every horse is sent to potters or even the hunting kennels most are rehabilitated, they are not insured as denny has said they are to much of a high risk!!!!
Some breaks are fixable but 99% are not, NOT all are shot some have the injection a pony i used to look after got kicked out hunting resulting in a broken front leg we tried all we could to save the leg but it was not to be he was PTS with the injection, you will find that most horses go to the hunting kennels to feed the hounds an YOU have to pay the kennels not the other way round horses an potters are worth between £250 - maybe £600 if ya lucky an have a big fat horse, show ponies are worse off then many others they are fed up to look extremely over weight surely that SHORTENS there life span.

This thread was made for people to say goodbye to a much loved horse then you come on here with ya poison going on about something you clearly know NOTHING about.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

just one more thing have you ever seen a horse who has been given a lethal injection ????do you actually know how long it takes them to be fully dead???? i for one would never give any of my horses the lethal injection i would have them shot at least its over in less then a second not 5 mins!!!!!!!!


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> If horses take part in extreme jumping and having to haul tired bodies over obstacles whether eventing or steeplechasing, there will be deaths and casualties. *Still nothing was lost, he was insured so she can get another horse to play on until she breaks that one too.*
> I hate horse sports and dog racing because of the utter cruelty involved and the casualties.


What a horrible, nasty, uncalled-for thing to say. Yes he might well have been insured, but you could see how devastated Mary was when she saw his leg. She genuinely loved that horse, you could see it on her face, she has lost a friend as well as a good partner.



fenwoman said:


> If a horse DIDNT want to jump believe me IT WOULDNT (beardedlady)
> 
> *You don't really believe that do you? I mean, you and I both know that horses are trained to obey.* *If they don't obey or are uncontrollable, they get put down. Simple.* Plus a horse canters up to a jump and refuses and what happens? A couple of stinging cracks with the crop soon persuade it, jump or you will be hurt. And please don't tell me that whipping a horse doesn't hurt it either. They have sensitive skin. Ever seen a fly land on a horse in summer and see it's flesh quiver. So if it feels the fly, why not the whip?.


And that's a load of cr*p as well. I agree with beardedlady, horses are very intelligent but if they really don't want to do something, then they really won't! Cavvy clearly loved what he did, he loved the crowds and the work. You could see it in his eyes, with every jump he took. Yesterday was just a horrible tragic accident.

And where did you get that from?? Would you put your dog down just because it wouldn't sit, stay or fetch? No. Then why the hell do you think people would put their horses down?? The only time I can think of when a horse might be euthanised is perhaps when it has become dangerous, and even then it would be a last resort.



rakpeterson said:


> Tis a shame when this stuff happens but iv never understood why a horse witha leg injury gets PTS. Can they not recover from such an injury??


As a couple of others have said, it's very difficult for a horse to recover from a broken leg, it really depends on where the break is. For Cavvy, I believe the break was very high, near the stifle, and there would have been nothing they could do to save him. Better to be PTS, I think, than have months of pain and treatment which ultimately probably wouldn't work. 

It's almost impossible to immobilise a grazing, large animal like a horse in order for a break to heal. They are intelligent animals; being confined to a box for months, possibly suspended in some sort of sling to keep the weight off the broken limb, would probably send the horse mad as it wouldn't understand what was happening and why it couldn't move.



My thoughts are with Mary and with Cavvy's owners.

RIP beautiful, beautiful boy.


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

unfortunate accident, i agree that horses won't do anything they're dead set against...although i do think xc courses are sometimes tempting fate by requiring so much from both horse and rider.


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> just one more thing have you ever seen a horse who has been given a lethal injection ????do you actually know how long it takes them to be fully dead???? i for one would never give any of my horses the lethal injection i would have them shot at least its over in less then a second not 5 mins!!!!!!!!


 
Took the words out of my mouth.
My beloved pony was euthanased 2, no nearly 3, years ago, and had to have the injection rather than be shot as the vet on call didn't either have access to the gun, or a gun license, I forget which. 10 minute struggle to get the iv cannula in (not easy to do on a struggling recumbent horse), then another 5 minutes to wait for the sedation to kick in fully, then the injection itself which because of the sheer volume takes TIME to inject. Would I have preferred shooting? GOd yes. Would I have vomited hearing the shot? Probably, it makes my stomach turn. But he probably wouldn't even have had time to process the noise of the shot before dying, and surely that's more humane?
He also went to the kennels - not to feed the dogs obviously cos he was full of drugs, but he would have gone anyway. Cos, seriously, how do you bury a 600+kg horse? And believe me, my mum tried hard to work out how.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

vetdebbie said:


> Took the words out of my mouth.
> My beloved pony was euthanased 2, no nearly 3, years ago, and had to have the injection rather than be shot as the vet on call didn't either have access to the gun, or a gun license, I forget which. 10 minute struggle to get the iv cannula in (not easy to do on a struggling recumbent horse), then another 5 minutes to wait for the sedation to kick in fully, then the injection itself which because of the sheer volume takes TIME to inject. Would I have preferred shooting? GOd yes. Would I have vomited hearing the shot? Probably, it makes my stomach turn. But he probably wouldn't even have had time to process the noise of the shot before dying, and surely that's more humane?
> He also went to the kennels - not to feed the dogs obviously cos he was full of drugs, but he would have gone anyway. Cos, seriously, how do you bury a 600+kg horse? And believe me, my mum tried hard to work out how.


 

i would much rather have hold of horse thats gonna be shot then one that takes ages to die on ya, the vet was still with the pony half an hr after he had injected him to make SURE he was DEAD, It was the most destressing thing i have ever had to do an believe me i have seen some sites broken legs, backs, necks the list is endless but having hold of that dear lil pony was the worst ever.


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

Obviously I don't know how poor Cavvy was PTS, but I'm sure it would have been the quickest most humane method they could use. I'm sorry but I don't really know much about that side of the horse business or how long things take, obviously shooting would be quick but I don't know about the rest.

I know they tried for months to save an American racehorse who was predicted to be the Triple Crown? something-winner and in the end it was fruitless. I believe his break was much further down the leg, though. Unfortunatley I can't remember his name but I do remember reading about him.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

RIP cavvy - Mary King must be gutted - she genuinely seems to care about her horses and it takes such time to build up such a relationship!!


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

rip cavvy gone but not forgotten

also on the talk of putting horses down and been there at both types and shoting is much quicker to see a beloved pet stumble about and then drop when there injected is horrible compared to bang and hit the ground

i dont agree with race horses jumping in races like the derby or gn but dont see any hame in point to point with no fences

and if you think raceing and jumping crul work in a riding school horses are worked up to 4 hours aday with numptys pulling on there mouths drugged up on bute if there lame to make them work for there keep even more 

and on the broken leg thing at the riding school i worked at we had one that cracked his leg bone lots of box rest and slings only for it to crack again same place a year later and he had to be put down 

so why bother sometimes with the pain and suffering of being slinged and boxed all day just for it to not work


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

medusa0373 said:


> They are intelligent animals; being confined to a box for months, possibly suspended in some sort of sling to keep the weight off the broken limb, would probably send the horse mad as it wouldn't understand what was happening and why it couldn't move.


Can I just say that this certainly didn't happen to Baby, had the yard owner at any point suspected he was suffering mentally she would have made the decision to have him PTS. He became a very person friendly horse, more so than any I've met. The hardest part of all his re-coup was getitng the muscle back. 6months + of no work and exercise means his muscles practically wasted away, he wasn't in any discomfort, it just meant that bringing him back was hard work. But they made that decision, and last I heard he was still alive and doing well. He became the horse whom when you went into the field would come galloping up to you for fussing, a truly wonderful boy.

But as has been said with 99% of breaks and serious leg injuries the only option is euthanasia. In my opinion in most cases shooting is more humane. The injection takes far to long for my liking. Shooting is unpleasant for the owners more so than it is the horses. It's over before they even know what's happening.

Debbie on the how to bury a horse front. I suppose unless it was your own land there isn't much option. Kimble was buried by the yard owners husband. He used a tractor to clear out the land. But Anne said she couldn't bear to not have Kimble around (her first horse), they didn't do this with any other horses though, just Kimble, it was an absolutely mammoth task.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> Firstly please don't question my knowledge on racehorses i clearly know a damn sight more then you.
> 
> Not every horse is sent to potters or even the hunting kennels most are rehabilitated, they are not insured as denny has said they are to much of a high risk!!!!
> Some breaks are fixable but 99% are not, NOT all are shot some have the injection a pony i used to look after got kicked out hunting resulting in a broken front leg we tried all we could to save the leg but it was not to be he was PTS with the injection, you will find that most horses go to the hunting kennels to feed the hounds an YOU have to pay the kennels not the other way round horses an potters are worth between £250 - maybe £600 if ya lucky an have a big fat horse, show ponies are worse off then many others they are fed up to look extremely over weight surely that SHORTENS there life span.
> ...



How peculiar and hypocritical. You tell me not to question your knowledge, but you blithely question mine. on what do you base your statment that 99% of broken bones are not fixable? And why are they not fixable given that a horses bone is the same as my bone, a dog bone, a cat bone or any other bone.
What percentage of horses in this country are shot as opposed to lethal injection. I mean, you must know, otherwise you wouldn't have stated the percentages would you? Otherwise that would have meant you were talking out of a hole in your hat.
The thread was posted on a public forum, ergo it is open to public comment. Saying goodbye and shedding crocodile tears won't bring the poor beggar back again will it? Was it put to sleep by lethal injection?
And shedding crocodile tears won't stop it happening again this year to another horse.
You have no idea as to the extent of my knowledge or to the fact that I am actually good friends with one of the oldest knackermen in this area who's firm has been operating for over 100 years.
I may not any longer keep horses or ponies (used to have driving ponies) but that doesn't mean I'm out of the loop. I don't keep greyhounds either yet I'm aware of the vileness of the greyhound racing industry.
So keep your crocodile tears to yourself. A rider entered her horse into a 'sport' so dangerous that insurance companies won't insure them or it would lose money having to pay out on all the animals killed or crippled. She decided to do it, the horse had no say in it. She rode it hard in order to win herself a prize and get some glory and she killed it. So her tears or the tears of any supporter of this vile 'sport' don't move me at all.
It is in my mind, the equivalent of me deciding to make my dogs bungee jump and throwing them over a viaduct. Risky, they have no say in it, they will be forced to do it no matter how much they don't want to and I would do it knowing that the dog may easily get killed. In fact that there is a strong likelihood that this will happen and then when the rope breaks and my dog smashes itself into the ravine, coming on her, crying and wailing and saying "poor dog, RIP, oh I am so sad, I loved it so much".
Well bo:censor:cks!:bash::bash::bash:


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

vetdebbie said:


> Took the words out of my mouth.
> My beloved pony was euthanased 2, no nearly 3, years ago, and had to have the injection rather than be shot as the vet on call didn't either have access to the gun, or a gun license, I forget which. 10 minute struggle to get the iv cannula in (not easy to do on a struggling recumbent horse), then another 5 minutes to wait for the sedation to kick in fully, then the injection itself which because of the sheer volume takes TIME to inject. Would I have preferred shooting? GOd yes. Would I have vomited hearing the shot? Probably, it makes my stomach turn. But he probably wouldn't even have had time to process the noise of the shot before dying, and surely that's more humane?
> He also went to the kennels - not to feed the dogs obviously cos he was full of drugs, but he would have gone anyway. Cos, seriously, how do you bury a 600+kg horse? And believe me, my mum tried hard to work out how.


 
i hired a digger and buried one of mine in the field. and you cannot force a horse to jump if it does not want too. i had a highland who wouldnt go over a pole lying on the ground, we accepted she wasnt for jumping and bought an arab cross who would have jumped the moon if you had asked him. he totally enjoyed going to shows. 
i had one wee shetland cross mare who died when she was 40. so if they are well looked after they can live longer than the owners!!!!

oh and the two i have HAD to have put to sleep by injection, passed peacefully. no struggles at all.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> rip cavvy gone but not forgotten
> 
> also on the talk of putting horses down and been there at both types and shoting is much quicker to see a beloved pet stumble about and then drop when there injected is horrible compared to bang and hit the ground
> 
> ...


 I know personally 2 friends who's horses had broken legs and the legs were splinted and healed. Neither can be ridder or should I say, neither owner will allow them to be ridden but they are companion horses. One was a show jumper, now in it's late 20's and in a retirement home which I managed to find for the owners and the other some years ago was a lovely highland pony.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

my neices horse was put to sleep just last month. he broke his leg and had metal pins put in. stood in a stable for months, then when he went to the vet school they discovered the bone around the pins was dying, and the pins had bent. where dogs and cats can get around on 3 legs, the sheer weight of the horse in proportion to the legs means it cannot. sad fact of life. personally i wouldnt make a horse do what it did not or was not happy doing. not that you can anyway.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> How peculiar and hypocritical. You tell me not to question your knowledge, but you blithely question mine. on what do you base your statment that 99% of broken bones are not fixable? And why are they not fixable given that a horses bone is the same as my bone, a dog bone, a cat bone or any other bone.
> What percentage of horses in this country are shot as opposed to lethal injection. I mean, you must know, otherwise you wouldn't have stated the percentages would you? Otherwise that would have meant you were talking out of a hole in your hat.
> The thread was posted on a public forum, ergo it is open to public comment. Saying goodbye and shedding crocodile tears won't bring the poor beggar back again will it? Was it put to sleep by lethal injection?
> And shedding crocodile tears won't stop it happening again this year to another horse.
> ...


 
i base my figures on what i have seen an dealt with YOU cant not fix a horse like ya can a dog or any other animal for that matter you have completely disregarded everything i said to you an came up with more bull. 
Horses cant not be forced to do anything i would like to see you force half a ton of high strung thoroughbred to do something YOU wanted to do, they do it because its in there nature they run an they jump even out in the wild ya know!!! Driving horses can also come across as being cruel making them pull carts an traps with people sat there looking pretty each to there own i suppose i love all horses big or small an love everything that horses do. I don't support one thing an hate the other. You don't like seeing racehorses gallop an jump but you will happily harness a horse up blinker it an MAKE it pull a cart i think you just a lil hypocritical if ya ask me.
yes this is a open forum an yes people post R.I.P an share there thoughts and feelings for animals but its people like you who cant keep shut an have to spoil thread after thread there was NO need for you to say what you did whether it your opinion or not this thread was NOT the place to do it.


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> Can I just say that this certainly didn't happen to Baby, had the yard owner at any point suspected he was suffering mentally she would have made the decision to have him PTS. He became a very person friendly horse, more so than any I've met. The hardest part of all his re-coup was getitng the muscle back. 6months + of no work and exercise means his muscles practically wasted away, he wasn't in any discomfort, it just meant that bringing him back was hard work. But they made that decision, and last I heard he was still alive and doing well. He became the horse whom when you went into the field would come galloping up to you for fussing, a truly wonderful boy.
> 
> But as has been said with 99% of breaks and serious leg injuries the only option is euthanasia. In my opinion in most cases shooting is more humane. The injection takes far to long for my liking. Shooting is unpleasant for the owners more so than it is the horses. It's over before they even know what's happening.
> 
> Debbie on the how to bury a horse front. I suppose unless it was your own land there isn't much option. Kimble was buried by the yard owners husband. He used a tractor to clear out the land. But Anne said she couldn't bear to not have Kimble around (her first horse), they didn't do this with any other horses though, just Kimble, it was an absolutely mammoth task.


Apologies Katiexx, my post about keeping horses boxed etc was not aimed at anyone in particular, it was a general statement - sorry if you thought it was aimed at you! I was actually thinking of my friend's horse who damaged a major ligament in his fetlock/hoof area (can't for the life of me think what it's called) and he effectively went stir-crazy being boxed for 6 months. Despite all their best efforts to keep him happy and healthy he just lost it so they made the decision to have him PTS as it was better for him. 

Blimmin hell, I've opened up a right can of worms with this thread, haven't I. All I wanted to do was make a nice thread to say RIP to poor Cavvy in case any horse lovers weren't aware of what had happened yesterday, not start off WWIII.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> How peculiar and hypocritical. You tell me not
> I may not any longer keep horses or ponies (used to have driving ponies) but that doesn't mean I'm out of the loop.
> 
> 
> ...


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

medusa0373 said:


> Blimmin hell, I've opened up a right can of worms with this thread, haven't I. All I wanted to do was make a nice thread to say RIP to poor Cavvy in case any horse lovers weren't aware of what had happened yesterday, not start off WWIII.


i would get a mod to close it hun an make another hopefully it wont get hyjacked :2thumb:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

beardedlady said:


> i would get a mod to close it hun an make another hopefully it wont get hyjacked :2thumb:


hold on why close the thread? it hasnt been hyjacked. Fenny is simply givin her views on something she feels passionate about and i cant fault her for that. 

im personally against horse racing, or any kind of racing. someone commented that horses like galloping around n cross country, yes they do, but without someone on their back pushin them to carry on a horse gallopin of its own free will has the choice to stop at any point should it want to. A horse in a race i feel doesnt have that choice. The same person also said this has just been a sad accident....a sad accident where a poor animals life has been cut short, yet it still continues, and there will be a lot more sad accidents in the future where horses will lose their lives when they didnt need to. How many more horses have to die before people start to realise that horse racing is an unessessary thing that is used at an animals detriment to entertain the masses? or will it take a few human fatalities to realise? 

just because someone disagrees with your views doesnt mean you have the right to have a thread closed, if everyone felt this way then we might as well close down every forum!


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

i did not say get it closed because someone disagreed with me at all!!! i musta missed that bit where i typed it 

i said do another one so it wont be hijacked, keeps this one going by all means but to be honest it will keep going round in circles like everything does on this forum.
maybe the OP can make a proper thread in the proper place.

each to there own opinion ,i have said my piece an fenwoman has said 
hers i cant be arsed to sit here justifying myself to people who don't read what other peoples views are!!! i have sat an read very carefully what people have posted an replied accordingly funny enough the majority of posters have the same view as i.

Fenwoman could have expressed her feelings else where why on a thread deicated to the loss of a horse!! you don't see people doing it on any other R.I.P thread i thought it was heartless of her.

But i suppose everyone will jump on the band wagon now as this is all this forum seems to do never mind if other people think differently.
i thought differently to fenwoman an then all her groupies come in backing her up when they properly have lil knowledge on the subject either.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

beardedlady said:


> *i would get a mod to close it hun* an make another hopefully it wont get hyjacked :2thumb:





beardedlady said:


> i did not say get it closed because someone disagreed with me at all!!! i musta missed that bit where i typed it
> 
> i said do another one so it wont be hijacked, keeps *this one going by all means* but to be honest it will keep going round in circles like everything does on this forum.
> maybe the OP can make a proper thread in the proper place.
> ...


 
you say -people dont read things properly but both highlighted statements are a bit conflicting...... one minute youre sayin get it closed for whatever reason, then youre sayin leave it open by all means. You may not have directly stated that it should be closed because someone disagrees with you but your post implies that the thread has been hyjacked by irrelevant posts, which just isnt the case. Also ( see underlined highlighted statement ) i dont think its my inability to read as if you read the op it isnt actually a thread dedicated to the loss of a horse at all!! by the looks of the first thread the original poster didnt even know that the horse was dead when they posted this thread therefore it isnt actually a thread dedicated to the loss of a horse is it? it is a thread about the race and what happened there, and also to ask if anyone else actually attended the event


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> you say -people dont read things properly but both highlighted statements are a bit conflicting...... one minute youre sayin get it closed for whatever reason, then youre sayin leave it open by all means. You may not have directly stated that it should be closed because someone disagrees with you but your post implies that the thread has been hyjacked by irrelevant posts, which just isnt the case. Also ( see underlined highlighted statement ) i dont think its my inability to read as if you read the op it isnt actually a thread dedicated to the loss of a horse at all!! by the looks of the first thread the original poster didnt even know that the horse was dead when they posted this thread therefore it isnt actually a thread dedicated to the loss of a horse is it? it is a thread about the race and what happened there, and also to ask if anyone else actually attended the event


I posted this about 5 minutes before I found out the Cavvy had been PTS, so technically you are both correct, it wasn't intended as a tribute to the loss of a horse, but that's what it turned into, as the horse has indeed gone. 

I think this thread should probably be locked as this is obviously a very very heated subject, no eventing is not everyone's cup of tea but I don't particularly think this is the right place for WWIII to happen. There are plenty of horse forums for that.

I have now put an RIP thread in the correct place:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/r-i-p/220986-rip-call-again-cavalier-beautiful.html#post2962246


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> rip cavvy gone but not forgotten
> 
> and if you think raceing and jumping crul work in a riding school horses are worked up to 4 hours aday with numptys pulling on there mouths drugged up on bute if there lame to make them work for there keep even more


Um, I just wanted to point out that I cannot afford a horse, so I go to a riding school, we've been riding there for about 3 years now. If any of the horses go lame or get injured for any reason, whether it's a kick out in the field or whatever, they are certainly not buted up, they are rested until such time as they are able to be put into work again.... I know some places are maybe a bit unscrupulous but they're not all like that. The owners of the stables certainly put their horses first and their paying customers second.....which is how it should be, I think!

They also do no more than 2 hours work a day and they are all matched very carefully with their level of rider. All beginners will to some degree pull on their mouths, but the instructors do their best to stop any harm coming to the horses and pick up anyone who is sawing at their mouths/yanking backwards or using the reins to balance....


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i wonder after this and with mary bein so devistated at the loss of her horse, its death caused by it being raced by her, will she continue to race horses?


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## gaspanic (Sep 1, 2008)

oh fun, something i can join in on..

Im not going to go around quoting everyone i disagree with (im human, im allowed to disagree) so...

First off, a horse could just as easily break its leg jumping a 4/5 ft parallel with a rider on its back as it could jumping a 5 bar gate while out to graze....yes, agree, it has been done!

My last horse was also an ex racer bought by the previous owners as a colt for £36K ....i got him for £1700 purely because he lost a couple of races (well, all his races but ssshhh) He was 3 years old when i got him and already had the fear of god put into him by training. If we were out on a group hack or even just 2 of us, and decided to have a little canter if we found a nice stretch of green, he would totally flip out if he wasnt infront, dangerously at times. it took me 2 years to get him used to the fact that i wasnt going to beat him over the head if he didnt go fast enough. I also worked with Yogi Breisner as he was based out of the yard i worked at and not even a man of his talents could calm Ted down. Ergo.....racing is bad!! well, in my opinion anyway. 

Fenwoman - "Still nothing was lost, he was insured so she can get another horse to play on until she breaks that one too"

this is why i stay out of arguments but.....you heartless woman!!! How could you??? Do you personally know Mary King and can say she would be thinking along the lines that you are?? I had the privelage of working on a yard that is highly regarded and has had alot of top eventers and racers use the facilities to train and teach, Having had countless dressage lessons from her, i can say she was without fail one of the most passionate about the sport and the animals involved! Any one who has the oh well, its insured attitude doesnt deserve to have animals and as much as its not about money in the slightest, if you had paid what she did for that horse, you sure as hell would take care of it and not adopt that kind of attitude!

you could say taking a horse out on the roads for a hack was the most ghastly thing to do, along with eventing, racing etc, but Ted absolutely loved his rides out. When i first got him, id struggle for a good 20 minutes to get him to go back in through the gates. If you can genuinely tell a horse is enjoying themselves when your on board, then why not? Why not help it to do something it wouldnt normally do on its own?

As for you making a horse do something it didnt want to....i doubt it. 
I horse is a powerful animal, i saw a shetland drag a 13st man around a field because she didnt want to go in once he'd got the lead rope on her head collar...They have their own minds and can use them. If it doesnt want to jump, it wont.

thats all...

have fun now byeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Surely a forum is a place for people to have a discussion and as not everyone has the same opinion on things some topics will get heated. I personally dont agree with eventing or racing were the horse is pushed as far as it can be. Too many tragedys


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

gaspanic said:


> Fenwoman - "Still nothing was lost, he was insured so she can get another horse to play on until she breaks that one too"
> 
> this is why i stay out of arguments but.....you heartless woman!!! How could you??? Do you personally know Mary King and can say she would be thinking along the lines that you are??


what i personally think would be heartless is that if mary, after such a devestating loss she says she has suffers, gets back on another horse in another event and runs the risk of ending that horses life early too...... knowing what devistation racing can cause should somethin like this happen again, mary wouldnt get on another horse an an event again


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Good God , its happened again a decent thread turned into a slanging match .Last year i had the displeasure of holding a friends 27 yr old pony to be euthanised, i lead him out of his stable to the grassed area the vet popped the needle into his vein Which hurt the pony and adminestered the sedative , i asked what to expect and the vet said just stand back , that pont went down like a bag of hammers , all i could think of was his poor head which hit the ground in seconds, he was pronounced dead within a minute or so..... When my welsh pny stallion was kicked the mare snapped his off hind cannon bone right in the middle, i had to stand and hold him for 5 hours till the meat man came to shoot him coz we couldnt get hold of the vet, the meat man came , shot him in the head and he bled and hissed for nearly ten minutes the sound was disgusting and very distressing and it took ages to stop pumping blood from the hole in his head the noise was terrible . this thread has brought back to many bad memories for me and now i,ll be depressed for days , WHY THE F>>K CANT PEOPLE JUST BE NICE ON THIS FORUM , fenwoman YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND DONT DESERVE TO KEEP ANIMALS COZ YOU HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE BE IT ANIMAL OR HUMAN, to turn this thread into this farcacle peice of garbage is unforgivable you deserve to rot in No Place..(no place is a very small village in durham)...i suggest this thread is closed...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Good God , its happened again a decent thread turned into a slanging match .Last year i had the displeasure of holding a friends 27 yr old pony to be euthanised, i lead him out of his stable to the grassed area the vet popped the needle into his vein Which hurt the pony and adminestered the sedative , i asked what to expect and the vet said just stand back , that pont went down like a bag of hammers , all i could think of was his poor head which hit the ground in seconds, he was pronounced dead within a minute or so..... When my welsh pny stallion was kicked the mare snapped his off hind cannon bone right in the middle, i had to stand and hold him for 5 hours till the meat man came to shoot him coz we couldnt get hold of the vet, the meat man came , shot him in the head and he bled and hissed for nearly ten minutes the sound was disgusting and very distressing and it took ages to stop pumping blood from the hole in his head the noise was terrible . this thread has brought back to many bad memories for me and now i,ll be depressed for days , WHY THE F>>K CANT PEOPLE JUST BE NICE ON THIS FORUM , *fenwoman YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND DONT DESERVE TO KEEP ANIMALS COZ YOU HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE BE IT ANIMAL OR HUMAN, to turn this thread into this farcacle peice of garbage is unforgivable you deserve to rot in No Place*..(no place is a very small village in durham)...i suggest this thread is closed...


WTF??!?!?! so shes a disgrace for feelin passionate about a sport that causes suffering to horses? might not to all that compete but the risk is still there

if this thread has brought back memories then so will any news of a horse being put to sleep, i think you've become very personal. Fenwoman is entitled to her opinion, she has a lot of compassion and has respect for living things!!! dont talk complete crap!!! its not an rip thread so it isnt disrespectful, its a FORUM unless you didnt realise where people can openly express their views !!!!!! i personally dont have compassion for horse riders, or this mary who lost her horse because no doubt she will get back on one and ride again. If she is so totally and utterly devistated by the loss of this horse then she wouldnt risk another one by gettin on it and riding in an event again, imo she has no compassion!!! she knows the risks of riding horses and pushin them in races yet she continues to do so!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Good God , its happened again a decent thread turned into a slanging match .Last year i had the displeasure of holding a friends 27 yr old pony to be euthanised, i lead him out of his stable to the grassed area the vet popped the needle into his vein Which hurt the pony and adminestered the sedative , i asked what to expect and the vet said just stand back , that pont went down like a bag of hammers , all i could think of was his poor head which hit the ground in seconds, he was pronounced dead within a minute or so..... When my welsh pny stallion was kicked the mare snapped his off hind cannon bone right in the middle, i had to stand and hold him for 5 hours till the meat man came to shoot him coz we couldnt get hold of the vet, the meat man came , shot him in the head and he bled and hissed for nearly ten minutes the sound was disgusting and very distressing and it took ages to stop pumping blood from the hole in his head the noise was terrible . this thread has brought back to many bad memories for me and now i,ll be depressed for days , WHY THE F>>K CANT PEOPLE JUST BE NICE ON THIS FORUM , fenwoman YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND DONT DESERVE TO KEEP ANIMALS COZ YOU HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE BE IT ANIMAL OR HUMAN, to turn this thread into this farcacle peice of garbage is unforgivable you deserve to rot in No Place..(no place is a very small village in durham)...i suggest this thread is closed...


 

and there was every need for that was there :whistling2::bash:


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

in my opinion accidents can happen anywhere, wheather eventing, or in my own experience a simple accident in the field or a road accident. Mary King has always done everything for her horses and some people are making it sound as if it was her fault!


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

quadrapop said:


> in my opinion accidents can happen anywhere, wheather eventing, or in my own experience a simple accident in the field or a road accident. Mary King has always done everything for her horses and some people are making it sound as if it was her fault!


yes accidents do happen, but they can be avoided, how do you avoid a horse losin its life due to an injury in a race?? dont race it! ive never been a fan of horse riding in particular anyway, be it racing or for pleasure. Im not makin out like its Mary's fault but as an animal lover if i jepoardise my animals safety in anyway by something ive done i certainly dont do it again


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Can I just make a point here. Call Again Cavalier was not Mary King's horse, she was his rider, and had a fantastic working relationship with him but she wasn't his owners. His owners are Eddie & Sue Davies, and their daughter Janette.

It's not quite as simple I wouldn't imagine as saying 'I'm not going to compete again' when it is their livelihood..it is their job, as a professional rider. Alot of the riders in the professional ring make their living from sponsorship, competitions, are paid to ride certain horses etc etc.

Also can i make the point that Mary King was not 'racing' him, she was eventing, as I understand it he fell during a x country jump. Like others have said although a high risk sport, they can hurt themselves in the field, stables etc just as easily. I don't personally agree with steeplechasing, and I think some of the jumps in high end X country & showjumping are just crazy. But that isn't the point of this thread.

Having met Mary King and having had the pleasure of a lesson from her many years ago I can honestly say she came across as a thoroughly lovely woman, who cares deeply about the animals in her care and those she rides. I don't like the fact she was made out as a heartless woman who's only care is to win and the 'glory' that goes along with it. I've seen her pull her horses out of competitions before now, not because they're lame but because they didn't feel completely 'sound' and happy at the time for whatever reason. Vets okayd the horses they just didn't feel 100% right to her...i'm sorry but someone jsut in it for the glory wouldn't do that in my honest opinion.

Anyways as this thread is about Cavvy. Here's a picture of the gorgeous man.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i can understand that its someones lively hood, and if she can live with the fact that a horse died due to her want to be in that occupation to earn a living then thats up to her, i know i wouldnt want to do a job that involved that risk, but the fact still remains that if that horse hadnt been in that event then he wouldnt have died end of. its more against the sport in general, just the same for dog racing. Its a sport for entertainment and money makin purposes that isnt a neccessity


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> yes accidents do happen, but they can be avoided, how do you avoid a horse losin its life due to an injury in a race?? dont race it! ive never been a fan of horse riding in particular anyway, be it racing or for pleasure. Im not makin out like its Mary's fault but as an animal lover if i jepoardise my animals safety in anyway by something ive done i certainly dont do it again


 Accidents can only be avoided if you never do anything with anything. be it in a car or on a horse or with any pet we have, what a silly thing to say.....All horse men and women take the risk of accidents as do car drivers dog keepers and other pet keepers. .......Some people on here are very extreme in their veiws and opinions, and use the word passionate to describe obssesive stupidity , Not all horses have accidents in races or in eventing a friends horse was hit from behind by a car last year and had to be shot and it was only hacking out .And my old german shepherd severed the artery in her leg on a peice of broken glass in the park and nearly died but i guess if i never took her out it would never have happened and i guess i,m guilty of putting her at risk of an accident.We are all at risk of accidents everyday of our lives we cannot stop them happening its part of life.....


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Accidents can only be avoided if you never do anything with anything. be it in a car or on a horse or with any pet we have, what a silly thing to say.....All horse men and women take the risk of accidents as do car drivers dog keepers and other pet keepers. .......Some people on here are very extreme in their veiws and opinions, and use the word passionate to describe obssesive stupidity , Not all horses have accidents in races or in eventing a friends horse was hit from behind by a car last year and had to be shot and it was only hacking out .And my old german shepherd severed the artery in her leg on a peice of broken glass in the park and nearly died but i guess if i never took her out it would never have happened and i guess i,m guilty of putting her at risk of an accident.We are all at risk of accidents everyday of our lives we cannot stop them happening its part of life.....


 
you obviously know alot about obsessive stupidity dont you as your comparison is stupidly weak!!! do cars play chicken with animals for entertainment?? no they dont, do dogs not NEED to exercise and go out to use the toilet?? yes they do. Do horses NEED humans to ride them round courses in order to have a satisfying and happy life??? NO NO NO!!!! accidents do happen yes, but by taking a dog out for a walk you are not automatically putting it in a situation that could turn out to be fatal, plus your dog has a choice of where it wants to go, what it wants to do, a horse in a race has no choice on whether it wants to make a jump or not!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> accidents do happen yes, but by taking a dog out for a walk you are not automatically putting it in a situation that could turn out to be fatal, plus your dog has a choice of where it wants to go, what it wants to do, a horse in a race has no choice on whether it wants to make a jump or not!



This is why fences are refused in racing, cross country & showjumping. Because the horse isn't a 100% happy. I really don't like the fact that three day eventing is being compared to horse racing when they're completely different sports. To me eventing is about the bond, relationship etc between horse and rider. People are gonna have a difference of opinion regardless. But I still don't think this thread needed to go the way it has. With insults being flung around.

What has happened to Cavvy is a tragedy, and an investigation is under way. The course yesterday sounds very tough..I haven't watched it so can't comment on the course itself, but with only 8 (I think) riders finishing that says alot. And maybe it does need looking into.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> you obviously know alot about obsessive stupidity dont you as your comparison is stupidly weak!!! do cars play chicken with animals for entertainment?? no they dont, do dogs not NEED to exercise and go out to use the toilet?? yes they do. Do horses NEED humans to ride them round courses in order to have a satisfying and happy life??? NO NO NO!!!! accidents do happen yes, but by taking a dog out for a walk you are not automatically putting it in a situation that could turn out to be fatal, plus your dog has a choice of where it wants to go, what it wants to do, a horse in a race has no choice on whether it wants to make a jump or not!


Do ANY pets need to be kept in cages to satisfy the lives of their keepers NO NO NO NO NO so WE are all stupid in OUR beleifs.....Eventing is not a case of playing chicken you obiously havnt ridden a well trained horse or if you have were too chicken to enjoy it, these horses love what they do be it jumping or racing . I,M entiltled to MY opinion as is everyone else, and my opinion on some people on this forum is not a good one , coz some are over the top super passionate idiots.......Accidents happen . sadly all too often where horse are concerned .....Look around your home and see how many animals you have making YOUR life worth while and think to yourself are they truly happy to be with you , its my guess that they arnt .they are in the same boat as a horse is with its rider....so chill out your passion is getting to you....


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Do ANY pets need to be kept in cages to satisfy the lives of their keepers NO NO NO NO NO so WE are all stupid in OUR beleifs.....Eventing is not a case of playing chicken you obiously havnt ridden a well trained horse or if you have were too chicken to enjoy it, these horses love what they do be it jumping or racing . I,M entiltled to MY opinion as is everyone else, and my opinion on some people on this forum is not a good one , coz some are over the top super passionate idiots.......Accidents happen . sadly all too often where horse are concerned .....Look around your home and see how many animals you have making YOUR life worth while and think to yourself are they truly happy to be with me , its my guess that they arnt .they are in the same boat as a horse is with its rider....so chill out your passion is getting to you....


shes not the only one :roll:
rip cavvy shame that your life was cost by such a tragic accident


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Do ANY pets need to be kept in cages to satisfy the lives of their keepers NO NO NO NO NO so WE are all stupid in OUR beleifs.....Eventing is not a case of playing chicken you obiously havnt ridden a well trained horse or if you have were too chicken to enjoy it, these horses love what they do be it jumping or racing . I,M entiltled to MY opinion as is everyone else, and my opinion on some people on this forum is not a good one , coz some are over the top super passionate idiots.......Accidents happen . sadly all too often where horse are concerned .....Look around your home and see how many animals you have making YOUR life worth while and think to yourself are they truly happy to be with me , its my guess that they arnt .they are in the same boat as a horse is with its rider....so chill out your passion is getting to you....


 
no youre right, i havent ridden a well trained horse, at what point did i ever claim to know anything about horses??!?!?

you are entitled to your own opinion yes, just as everyone else is! BUT IT WAS YOU WHO DECIDED TO BE PERSONAL! AT NO POINT DID I CALL ANYONE STUPID NOR DID FENNY!!!

and no, no pets need to be kept in tanks cages or whatever to satisfy their lives, but being in a tank or cage isnt in any way jepoardisin their safety! so yet again another totally :censor: comparison on your part!!!:bash::bash::bash: im sure the horse isnt lovin jumpin when its lyin on the ground in agony and fear!!!

also no one can tell if an animal is truly happy but i can assure you that all the pets in my house hold are catered for, their every need, and have given me no obvious indication that they are unhappy, which is a lot easier to spot, and if i thought that any were being kept in a situation to their detriment then i wouldnt be keepin it!!! how are they in the same boat? im i stickin my lizards in a ring n racin them against other lizards n whippin them to go faster??? no! so sh*te comparison number 3!!!!


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> This is why fences are refused in racing, cross country & showjumping. Because the horse isn't a 100% happy. I really don't like the fact that three day eventing is being compared to horse racing when they're completely different sports. To me eventing is about the bond, relationship etc between horse and rider. People are gonna have a difference of opinion regardless. But I still don't think this thread needed to go the way it has. With insults being flung around.
> 
> What has happened to Cavvy is a tragedy, and an investigation is under way. The course yesterday sounds very tough..I haven't watched it so can't comment on the course itself, *but with only 8 (I think) riders finishing that says alot*. And maybe it does need looking into.


The course was pretty evil and out of an international field of 18 top riders, only *6* completed the jumping and XC phase. Mark Todd's horse actually broke one of the other "corner" jumps going over it and they spent 20 mins or so trying to fix it before they decided to take it out of the circuit. You can see William Fox-Pitt's round here;

YouTube - Express Eventing XC William Fox-Pitt

And this is Ollie Townend's round:

YouTube - Express Eventing XC Oli Townend

Cavvy fell at a double "skinny" corners jump, he seemed to take the first corner on a good line and it was 1.5 to 2 strides between the two (depending on horse I would say) but he seemed to catch himself on the second corner, banked across it and fell on the other side. The corners jump is near the yellow upright-thing. I think he just landed so awkwardly...... It is one of those freak accidents, I think 9 times out of 10 he would have walked away, just not yesterday. Mary was thrown clear, it took her a couple of minutes to get up herself.

I knew that Mary did not own the horse but working with him 24/7 she would have built such a close bond she might as well have. His owners must also be as devastated as she was/is.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

medusa0373 said:


> I knew that Mary did not own the horse but working with him 24/7 she would have built such a close bond she might as well have. His owners must also be as devastated as she was/is.



Yeah understandably, wasn't making that point at you hun, but everyone presuming it was her horse and she was racing him, which is a completely different discipline, just in one of those moods I guess.

Cheers for the links shall have a nosey, 6 wow I thought only 8 finishing was bad enough to be honest.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

medusa0373 said:


> The course was pretty evil and out of an international field of 18 top riders, only *6* completed the jumping and XC phase. Mark Todd's horse actually broke one of the other "corner" jumps going over it and they spent 20 mins or so trying to fix it before they decided to take it out of the circuit. You can see William Fox-Pitt's round here;
> 
> YouTube - Express Eventing XC William Fox-Pitt
> 
> ...


 Wow the course is long,and rather difficult, the horses dont seem to get much of a breather as they don in the cross country phase between the jumps of an event .I,M not supprised many didnt get round, it looks exciting tho i loved the water jump.its a devestating loss on what is a reletively new sport i really do think that the organisers need a rethink as to the length of the course tho...


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

some horses actually do enjoy jumping. my arab cross went so downhill when we retired him we had to bring him back into work and continue taking him to shows. when he started jumping again the difference in him was amazing. he loved it, and would jump things other horses would refuse. not because he was beaten over the jumps, i would never allow that, but because he loved it so much and put his heart and soul into it.
so do horses need a human on thier back to have a satisfying and happy life......yes some do.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> no youre right, i havent ridden a well trained horse, at what point did i ever claim to know anything about horses??!?!?
> 
> you are entitled to your own opinion yes, just as everyone else is! BUT IT WAS YOU WHO DECIDED TO BE PERSONAL! AT NO POINT DID I CALL ANYONE STUPID NOR DID FENNY!!!
> 
> ...


 I guess your skunk was so happy he didnt really try to escape either and was lucky not to have a serious accident opening your back door to get out and so lucky he didnt get squashed by a car or attacked by a dog while he was on walk about , dont throw stones hun , you live in a glass house. thats one comparison you cannot pick me up on , seeing that you are picking me up on my comparisons , good god it,ll be my spelling next..


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Wow the course is long,and rather difficult, the horses dont seem to get much of a breather as they don in the cross country phase between the jumps of an event .I,M not supprised many didnt get round, it looks exciting tho i loved the water jump.its a devestating loss on what is a reletively new sport i really do think that the organisers need a rethink as to the length of the course tho...


exactly, rather difficult and long.....so why make it so damn hard for the horses? thats were my big bug bear lies. Perhaps a lot of the fault lies with the organisers n they should be made to run round the course themselves n see if they can get round


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> I guess your skunk was so happy he didnt really try to escape either and was lucky not to have a serious accident opening your back door to get out and so lucky he didnt get squashed by a car or attacked by a dog while he was on walk about , dont throw stones hun , you live in a glass house. thats one comparison you cannot pick me up on , seeing that you are picking me up on my comparisons , good god it,ll be my spelling next..


 
now hold on a minute! my skunk is very happy, do you own a skunk?? do you know their character personality or care? i havent once said i know exactly what a horse needs or wants though i can still see that running an animal round a course that is too hard is cruelty!!!

do you think that my skunk knew it was a door he was opening?? no! they are very enquisitive creatures and will chew or pull on anything just to see what it is!!! doesnt mean he isnt happy!!!! did i intentionally let him out to see if he got hit by a car??? NO! SO DONT YOU DARE COMPARE MY ANIMALS TO THIS SITUATION !!! MY SKUNK GOT OUT! SO I HAVE TAKEN THE RIGHT ACTION TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN THUS SECURIN ITS SAFETY! unlike the horse riders that ride time and time again after they have murdered a horse for their passion and occupation!!!!

if you wanna make this personal denny as it seems you are incapable of keepin it as a debate then so be it, but take it into PMS and i will gladly tell you exactly wht i think, the unedited version


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> now hold on a minute! my skunk is very happy, do you own a skunk?? do you know their character personality or care? i havent once said i know exactly what a horse needs or wants though i can still see that running an animal round a course that is too hard is cruelty!!!
> 
> do you think that my skunk knew it was a door he was opening?? no! they are very enquisitive creatures and will chew or pull on anything just to see what it is!!! doesnt mean he isnt happy!!!! did i intentionally let him out to see if he got hit by a car??? NO! SO DONT YOU DARE COMPARE MY ANIMALS TO THIS SITUATION !!! MY SKUNK GOT OUT! SO I HAVE TAKEN THE RIGHT ACTION TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN THUS SECURIN ITS SAFETY! unlike the horse riders that ride time and time again after they have murdered a horse for their passion and occupation!!!!


 LOL> if the skunk was happy why would he try to escape..has he told you he,s happy i doubt it skunks arnt domestic animals they need space to roam and satisfy their natural curosity, in a house you cannot possibly give him what he needs( you dont like this do you , i,m only doing what fenwoman does not nice is it), and many horse riders after a bad accident dont ride again , some do eventually . some do the next day..


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Alot of horses do adore to jump though cat and I think that's a key point. Domino loves to be into everything and be nosey and inquisitive, likes to wander (as I believe skunks do in the wild). But some horses absolutely adore jumping. And that's nothing to do with them being forced to do it, they actually enjoy it. Some horses don't but some live for it.

Using the word murderer is uncalled for in my honest opinion. Baby got injured in the field...that simple. Millie fell in the field galloping up to me and her owner, she already had navicular which was being maintained, but she fell wrong. Was that our fault for going to greet her in the field? Does that make me a murderer? I've known a pony try to jump the fence ajoining two fields and seriously hurt himself. Just like i've known horses have accidents in the stables...these things happen.

Quite often in the past i've moaned about jumping and x country courses being to long or hard, by the time the horses are half way around they're starting to flag. But I don't believe that the riders are murderers, if the horse didn't want to do the course it wouldn't. What happened to cavvy was a freak accident.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> Alot of horses do adore to jump though cat and I think that's a key point. Domino loves to be into everything and be nosey and inquisitive, likes to wander (as I believe skunks do in the wild). But some horses absolutely adore jumping. And that's nothing to do with them being forced to do it, they actually enjoy it. Some horses don't but some live for it.
> 
> Using the word murderer is uncalled for in my honest opinion. Baby got injured in the field...that simple. Millie fell in the field galloping up to me and her owner, she already had navicular which was being maintained, but she fell wrong. Was that our fault for going to greet her in the field? Does that make me a murderer? I've known a pony try to jump the fence ajoining two fields and seriously hurt himself. Just like i've known horses have accidents in the stables...these things happen.
> 
> Quite often in the past i've moaned about jumping and x country courses being to long or hard, by the time the horses are half way around they're starting to flag. But I don't believe that the riders are murderers, if the horse didn't want to do the course it wouldn't. What happened to cavvy was a freak accident.


 
ok not murder but man slaughter, as they dont go out with the intention of killin them but does happen as a result of their actions

i dont deny nor have i done that horses dont like to jump but why do it on such a scale? on such a hard course? im sure a horse enjoys a leisurely easy gentle jump just as much. 

what happened to Cavvy was a freak accident? so there is only a minute number of horses that have lost their lives in events, be it racing or events like this or whatever?


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

denny2 said:


> LOL> if the skunk was happy why would he try to escape..has he told you he,s happy i doubt it skunks arnt domestic animals they need space to roam and satisfy their *natural curosity*, in a house you cannot possibly give him what he needs( you dont like this do you , i,m only doing what fenwoman does not nice is it), and many horse riders after a bad accident dont ride again , some do eventually . some do the next day..


Youve just answered your own question. Skunks are very curious animals and he went outside looking to see what adventures were to be had on the other side, this doesnt mean he's not happy. He is fed, watered, cuddled and waited on hand and foot. And he's perfectly happy with this. If the skunk wasnt happy with this treatment, he wouldn't allow them to cuddle him and he'd be trying to escape at every opportunity. Does a cat not go outside if the doors open? Does a dog not enjoy following new smells? Are they not happy then?

This thread was made in regards to a horse that passed away, not to make personal attacks on other members. There will always be differing opinions on horse racing/jumping but thats not to say anybody is right or wrong. You can never have a wrong opinion. Lets just leave the arguing there, the forum doesn't need another locked thread.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> LOL> if the skunk was happy why would he try to escape..has he told you he,s happy i doubt it skunks arnt domestic animals they need space to roam and satisfy their natural curosity, in a house you cannot possibly give him what he needs( you dont like this do you , i,m only doing what fenwoman does not nice is it), and many horse riders after a bad accident dont ride again , some do eventually . some do the next day..


so you are tellin me that my skunk had was thinkin " right im goin to try and escape" ??? yeah right! he was probably thinkin more along the lines of, "oh whats this?" he has the full roam of the house and has enough to satisfy his curiosity. Skunks are very food orientated too so give them food and theyre more than happy!

if skunks arent domestic animals then horses were not meant to be ridden! they were meant to be free also! you cant live by one law then preach another!!! im not sayin dont keep horses as companions, im sayin that i think it is cruel to put them in uneccessary situations! so i am not preachin 2 different things are you are!! im not sayin you cant ride horses but its acceptable to have skunk fights or whatever am i?!?!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

I aint got involved in this as i know nada about horses...............but i know alot about skunks 

i have 3 skunks an all mine are fine living in my house too 


look i think you should take this to pm as this really is turning into a personal slaggin match and it aint fair to other people an the original thread maker to have to see people throwing personal insults at each other 


come on hey


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

Skunks in domestic settings live a LOT longer than in the wild. This is because they are warm, well fed and well cared for, and they are not exposed to predators. They are naturally curious and will, if they can, go outside and explore. Unfortunately as random foragers, they don't have homing instincts and will get lost easily. This does not mean they are trying to escape.

The skunk I have was rescued from a fur farm. He is right at this moment snuggled up on the sofa next to me, warm, well fed and happy. 

The alternative for him? He'd be a hat. 

Please don't slag off skunk keepers until you know the full facts about them and keeping them as domestic animals.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i have omed denny to take this to PM but is obviously wantin to carry this on in public and not willin to discuss this in private, if thats the way they want it, then bring it


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Don't get me wrong there is large money to be made from competing be it eventing, or individual disciplines but it's alot more about the partnership than say racing. Yes sadly some horses have lost their lives and nothing will justify that, but courses are being constantly re-evaluated to minimise risks. The grand national fences for one example used to be alot bigger than they are now, but they made them smaller. To reduce accidents.

Like i've said before yes some of the courses are bonkers, and I would never be able to compete in many as I believe they're to much. But equally they don't go out to injure the animals. They've launched an investigation into Cavvy's death, and maybe it will make them rethink the courses for the future.

On the leisurely gentle jump front..yes some horses enjoy that, and there would be no professional riders if that was the case I suppose. But equally Oakley who I used to ride..would jump about three foot clear of anything you put in front of him. His owners hadn't trained him to do it he just bloody loved it. They didn't want a competition horse, just a nice horse they could pop over a few fences with and do some basic dressage with. But as soon as you started to warm him up or he saw a fence the change in him was electric. I don't know the best way to explain it to someone who's never ridden (don't mean that to sound patronising at all), but it's like something switched on, he became more alert and he just flew. He loved it.

(Edit to add: Horses didn't exist in the form they're in now thousands of years ago, just like dogs didn't they were domesticated to serve a purpose. With dogs it was hunting, protection, companionship etc. For horses it was to make jobs easier, to make travelling quicker etc some even say originally they were kept for meat. They're not as domesticated as dogs in the sense that they still have the flight instinct but equally cats aren't as domesticated as dogs and yet are seen as the norm).


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> so you are tellin me that my skunk had was thinkin " right im goin to try and escape" ??? yeah right! he was probably thinkin more along the lines of, "oh whats this?" he has the full roam of the house and has enough to satisfy his curiosity. *Skunks are very food orientated too so give them food and theyre more than happy!*
> 
> if skunks arent domestic animals then horses were not meant to be ridden! they were meant to be free also! you cant live by one law then preach another!!! im not sayin dont keep horses as companions, im sayin that i think it is cruel to put them in uneccessary situations! so i am not preachin 2 different things are you are!! im not sayin you cant ride horses but its acceptable to have skunk fights or whatever am i?!?!


I think I was a skunk in a previous life....


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

Holy **** I just read the last 8 pages which took forever and I'am really suprised no one has made a proper "R.I.P Cavvy" thread yet.


Anyway I'am going to avoid the arguing and just keep on reading cause some of this is actually quite interesting.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

I have to say you lot get very heated sometimes.... I was going to close this as its been reported a few times, however if it can be a civilised debate with NO insults then I will allow it to run for now.

Sometimes i wish i was not a mod though, as someone who spent her childhood growing up with horses and someone whos vocation was horses up until a serious accident there is a lot I could say.


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

medusa0373 said:


> I posted this about 5 minutes before I found out the Cavvy had been PTS, so technically you are both correct, it wasn't intended as a tribute to the loss of a horse, but that's what it turned into, as the horse has indeed gone.
> 
> I think this thread should probably be locked as this is obviously a very very heated subject, no eventing is not everyone's cup of tea but I don't particularly think this is the right place for WWIII to happen. There are plenty of horse forums for that.
> 
> ...





kaimarion said:


> Holy **** I just read the last 8 pages which took forever and I'am really suprised no one has made a proper "R.I.P Cavvy" thread yet.
> 
> 
> Anyway I'am going to avoid the arguing and just keep on reading cause some of this is actually quite interesting.


I have made a proper RIP thread, the link to it is shown above. I think the link was originally also on page 5 of this thread (before we got onto skunks....how did that happen??!).


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

katiexx i just pick ya up on one thing you mentioned about eventing being a partnership an racing not! why do you say this??? riding any horse in any situation you have to have a partnership, you have to understand ya horse. Jockeys have great partnerships with there horses they don't just ride in races they also work in stables help break them in, so there is just as much partnership there as there is with eventing or such like. just thought i would ask why you thought that.


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

wow, this has seen a lot of action since i last looked! i watched the vid on youtube of the fall, they didn't come into it quite right  the course does seem VERY long and I can't help but think in such an enclosed space with so many demanding, immovable fences an accident is very likely. 

i think the rules for number of fences and the grounds should be rethought.

I agree some horses do love jumping (with some the difficulty is trying to stop them jumping any fence that appears in front of them lol). showjumping is much safer than this though because poles will just fall down if they're caught, so misjudgments in most cases don't lead to any serious accidents.

With eventing i think the issue is that the xc courses are made more and more demanding each year. eventing xc and normal xc courses are so completely different, eventing xc courses are so complex and though they aren't meant to catch riders/horses out, they are made to test their ability to the limits which, realistically, can only result in some bad accidents like what happens at events or horse trials. I'm not saying it's right, i'm saying they should change things in the sport because it gets to a point where you expect at least 1 nasty fall like this at each event.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

beardedlady said:


> katiexx i just pick ya up on one thing you mentioned about eventing being a partnership an racing not! why do you say this??? riding any horse in any situation you have to have a partnership, you have to understand ya horse. Jockeys have great partnerships with there horses they don't just ride in races they also work in stables help break them in, so there is just as much partnership there as there is with eventing or such like. just thought i would ask why you thought that.



Don't get me wrong there is skill in being a jockey, but i've yet to meet a jockey who has the same sort of partnership as say a rider and a grand prix dressage horse, or indeed n allrounder like Mary King. Jockeys quite often ride several horses a day, and whilst yes eventers too can do this. They spend alot more time with the horses. Most of the time the horses will go to the eventers yard (if its not their own horse) for practise. This doesn't happen, or should I say never did when I used to watch racing.
Jockey's are normally freelance (or should i say they used to be), they make their money the more horses they ride. Being a jockey requires change. Wheras an eventing partnership quite often lasts for years.

My grandad was an avid racing fan, used to have a sneaky bet all the time (though of course if my nan asked he was just watching the pretty horses with his horse obsessed granddaughter..clever man :lol2 and there was quite often when they would say 'X jockey has had to pull out because of Y reason, so such a body will be riding Z'. In eventing that doesn't happen. You qualify as a partnership, if the horse is unfit or the rider is the other half doesn't compete. Look at Zara Phillips at the olympics, her horse was unfit so she simply couldn't compete. Am I making any sense at all? Not sure if things have changed in racing over the years as when my grandad passed I had no inclination to watch it. Having helped to re-train some ex-racehorses I just wanted to avoid it like the plague. Back then (admittedly not sure if it's the same now) I always felt the horses were broken in far to early, in my eyes they were still babies, who shouldn't have been broken for at least another year or two.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> Don't get me wrong there is large money to be made from competing be it eventing, or individual disciplines but it's alot more about the partnership than say racing. Yes sadly some horses have lost their lives and nothing will justify that, but *courses are being* *constantly re-evaluated to minimise risks*. The grand national fences for one example used to be alot bigger than they are now, but they made them smaller. To reduce accidents.


It seems obvious from the number of horses completing this course that minimising risks was not part of the agenda though. And as for the Grand National, they may have made a few changes but there are still deaths.

I don't think anyone is denying that these horses love to race and jump. But when money is entered into the equation the welfare of the horse can cease to be the priority.

More than one poster has called this a 'tragic accident'. Yes, it is indeed tragic for the HORSE. And I don't doubt the rider and owners will be upset, but they will no doubt carry on the sport with other horses.

But to me it is NOT an accident. There is a known risk in entering a horse into an event like this. The owner chooses to take that risk, whether for financial gain, prestige, a love of the 'sport' ... it is still their choice. Serious injury is a gamble which didn't pay off, not an accident.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Courses ARE being looked at all the time. Unfortunately its things like this that show up where mistakes are perhaps made. The video of the fall is on youtube, but I can't watch it knowing the outcome so I can't comment as to how the accident happened. I do admit that whilst courses are looked into they are insanely tough, and I suppose alot of that admittedly is because if they weren't there wouldn't be a sport. Like i've said countless times now, i'm not sayin I agree with the degree of difficulty or length of certain courses/races, or even how young some of the horses are trained. But it really wound me up that people were calling her a murderer. She will be devastated enough without tripe like that. As will his owners and everyone involved in his care.



Apparantly this is the fall. *WARNING* (I imagine) very distressing footage....but again I haven't watched it

YouTube - CALL AGAIN CAVALIER (R.I.P) & MARY KINGS FALL 30/11/08


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

that's the one i saw, very tough to watch


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> Don't get me wrong there is skill in being a jockey, but i've yet to meet a jockey who has the same sort of partnership as say a rider and a grand prix dressage horse, or indeed n allrounder like Mary King. Jockeys quite often ride several horses a day, and whilst yes eventers too can do this. They spend alot more time with the horses. Most of the time the horses will go to the eventers yard (if its not their own horse) for practise. This doesn't happen, or should I say never did when I used to watch racing.
> Jockey's are normally freelance (or should i say they used to be), they make their money the more horses they ride. Being a jockey requires change. Wheras an eventing partnership quite often lasts for years.
> 
> My grandad was an avid racing fan, used to have a sneaky bet all the time (though of course if my nan asked he was just watching the pretty horses with his horse obsessed granddaughter..clever man :lol2 and there was quite often when they would say 'X jockey has had to pull out because of Y reason, so such a body will be riding Z'. In eventing that doesn't happen. You qualify as a partnership, if the horse is unfit or the rider is the other half doesn't compete. Look at Zara Phillips at the olympics, her horse was unfit so she simply couldn't compete. Am I making any sense at all? Not sure if things have changed in racing over the years as when my grandad passed I had no inclination to watch it. Having helped to re-train some ex-racehorses I just wanted to avoid it like the plague. Back then (admittedly not sure if it's the same now) I always felt the horses were broken in far to early, in my eyes they were still babies, who shouldn't have been broken for at least another year or two.


your making sense hun yes its changed alot some yards haven't tho so i can only talk bout the one i worked at our jocks worked at the yard was the test pilot for the youngsters an did the every day 2 day thing that the stable lass would do. I completely agree that FLAT horses are broken far to young the horses i worked with an broke were at the youngest 3 some time not till they were 5 because of there shear size of them. our horses would be out in herds all summer roaming through 450 acres of grass then brought in an worked, they would also go out for a wonder in the afternoon so were not like caged animals etc, as for jockey changes in racing yes it does happen mainly cos jocks get injured so therefore cant ride the horse they was meant to.Even if jockeys are freelance i.e riding different trainers horses they are still usually tied to one yard an one trainer.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> Courses ARE being looked at all the time. Unfortunately its things like this that show up where mistakes are perhaps made. The video of the fall is on youtube, but I can't watch it knowing the outcome so I can't comment as to how the accident happened. I do admit that whilst courses are looked into they are insanely tough, and I suppose alot of that admittedly is because if they weren't there wouldn't be a sport. Like i've said countless times now, i'm not sayin I agree with the degree of difficulty or length of certain courses/races, or even how young some of the horses are trained. But it really wound me up that people were calling her a murderer. She will be devastated enough without tripe like that. As will his owners and everyone involved in his care.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
i also watched it you cant actually see him to clearly but its obvious what he has done, he landed pretty hard with both back legs on that jump


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Sounds soppy, wasn't my horse never met him, but I just can't bring myself to watch it knowing the outcome. Had I not known the outcome I would have probably watched it on the edge of my seat like always. Everytime someone has a fall I sit there like 'oh god..' then they normally get up. But knowing what happened to him I dunno it just feels wrong. Still I hope that some good comes of his death, I really do. Looking at townsends round it did look a very tricky course. Just makes me wonder if this hadn't of happened if people would have even commented on the courses difficulty though?

Wohic, I think Andy's said before that just because he's a mod he's still allowed an opinion. In my eyes you should be able to voice yours, whichever side of the fence you fall on.

[edit to add] I was just typing as you posted beardedlady. Your yard sounds fantastic, and I wish more were like it.


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

I've just watched the link, even though I was there it happened so fast it was difficult to see what he'd done and what happened. Not easy to see again, poor poor Cavvy. 

Watching the video makes it much clearer, you can see how far over to the right of the jump he was, just didn't have enough stretch to clear it. He came down really hard on it, didnt he? And from the angle of the video you can see that the line was off and they were too far over anyway and jumping the wedge rather than the corner. Mary obviously thought he could clear it or surely she would have tried to pull up or jink round or something.... 

Poor boy.

Edit: also wanted to add, a lot of people have said the video should be taken down from YouTube. Personally I disagree with this, it is heart-wrenching to see but it shows Cavvy as the horse he was, doing what he loved and taking a tumble that 9 times out of 10 he would have walked away from. People may disagree with me but please no flames on this thread it's been bad enough as it is...!


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

he did hit it very hard thats the first thing i thought both hind legs to. 

i dont think it should be taking off its not graphic you cant actually see much, plus all the other vids on there with horses etc hurting themselves, its like you said it shows him for what he was a true champ,


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

denny2 said:


> LOL> if the skunk was happy why would he try to escape..has he told you he,s happy i doubt it skunks arnt domestic animals they need space to roam and satisfy their natural curosity, in a house you cannot possibly give him what he needs( you dont like this do you , i,m only doing what fenwoman does not nice is it), and many horse riders after a bad accident dont ride again , some do eventually . some do the next day..


So if Cat is cruel for not allowing her skunk space to raom, what are you doing keeping your horse in a small square box??? Mmm????


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

some horses live out 24/7. it doesnt make them fitter, but they do tend to be healthier. all mine are natives, and live this way in a small herd. in the winter i have big round hay bales taken to the feild as the grass isnt that good.
thouroughbreds, arabs etc can be kept this way, but would need a multitude of rugs to make sure they kept condition.specially the way our winters are going. and some horses believe it or not, love being in a cosy stable with a big round hay net.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry to ask this but I've been reading this thread and it occured to me that comparisons between dog and horse racing/events are a bit silly.
Since a dog is a predator and a horse is a prey animal, a dog is more likely to enjoy running since in the wild a canid will run for a reward. A horse on the other hand is going to run flat out in the wild to escape from a predator. Surely this means that there are entirely different drives and motivations dictating the level of pleasure/stress from the activities?


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> So if Cat is cruel for not allowing her skunk space to raom, what are you doing keeping your horse in a small square box??? Mmm????


 excuse me mate but i never said she was cruel.... and who says i keep my horse in a box. .....butt out......


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Evie said:


> Sorry to ask this but I've been reading this thread and it occured to me that comparisons between dog and horse racing/events are a bit silly.
> Since a dog is a predator and a horse is a prey animal, a dog is more likely to enjoy running since in the wild a canid will run for a reward. A horse on the other hand is going to run flat out in the wild to escape from a predator. Surely this means that there are entirely different drives and motivations dictating the level of pleasure/stress from the activities?


 has it never occured to you that horses run about and jump for fun . ? obviously not. My young colt would run around and jump the hedges from his feild for fun , unless he was being chased by some imaginary foe while his mother ate grass peacefully...he loved to jump ..


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

denny2 said:


> excuse me mate but i never said she was cruel.... and who says i keep my horse in a box. .....butt out......


You didn't say, you insinuated! And why should I butt out? This is a public forum is it not?


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> You didn't say, you insinuated! And why should I butt out? This is a public forum is it not?


 Seemingly this is not a public forum as only the select few are allowed an opinion , so butt out. dont try kicking off the debate again which you are so obviously trying to do. ....to insinuate something is a lot different from calling someone a murdereer because her horse had a fatal accident,its rather like calling a mother a murderer coz her son died in a car accident because she gave him the car. would the skunk keeper have been labled a murderer if the skunk had been killed while he was rumaging about the house , i doubt it, but, then again its a skunk not a horse . .....skunks are bred to live in houses these days , and not in large outdoor enclosures more suited to their natural needs..........a case of hypocrisy i think.........just to add , horses are safer living in loose boxes , as 95% of horse accidents happen while they are out in a feild , that is fact ...


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

denny2 said:


> Seemingly this is not a public forum as only the select few are allowed an opinion , so butt out. dont try kicking off the debate again which you are so obviously trying to do. ....to insinuate something is a lot different from calling someone a murdereer because her horse had a fatal accident,its rather like calling a mother a murderer coz her son died in a car accident because she gave him the car. would the skunk keeper have been labled a murderer if the skunk had been killed while he was rumaging about the house , i doubt it, but, then again its a skunk not a horse . .....skunks are bred to live in houses these days , and not in large outdoor enclosures more suited to their natural needs..........a case of hypocrisy i think.........just to add , horses are safer living in loose boxes , as 95% of horse accidents happen while they are out in a feild , that is fact ...


I'm not trying to make things kick off again! I only read this thread todday for the first time! And what I read from you provoked my reaction & reply! Everyone is allowed an opinion! It doesn't mean everyone must agree with everyone elses opinions!

See - you believe skunks should only be kept in large outdoor enclosures & not in a house! That is your opinion & you are entitled to it! Doesn't mean I have to agree with you or keep quiet. I keep my pair of marmosets in the house in a large aviary, not in a jungle. But again, thats marmosets, not horses!


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> I'm not trying to make things kick off again! I only read this thread todday for the first time! And what I read from you provoked my reaction & reply! Everyone is allowed an opinion! It doesn't mean everyone must agree with everyone elses opinions!
> 
> See - you believe skunks should only be kept in large outdoor enclosures & not in a house! That is your opinion & you are entitled to it! Doesn't mean I have to agree with you or keep quiet. I keep my pair of marmosets in the house in a large aviary, not in a jungle. But again, thats marmosets, not horses!


 Sorry mate but you are wrong this forum is dominated by a select few who go out of their way to , victimise people and be very cruel with their posts , this maybe due to their obsessive love for animals but most arnt much better that the people they are tearing to shreds, some seem worse..To voice an opinion on this forum for some is just a means to show to others what they think is their superior knowlege on a subject reguardless if it offends people, i used the skunks escapades as an example of what its like to be ridiculed , when the boots on the other foot it dosnt go down well.....shame aint it . its also a shame that more peole dont stand up to what amounts to the abuse of forum members who may not be so knowlegeable........it seems that most people on here know jack sh...t about horses and should keep their nasty ideas and comments to themselves.......the human race would be in diastriats now if it wasnt for horses as a means of transport , even jesus had to rely on the equine to get about , if its good enough for him surly it should be good enough for us.....thankfully the majority of folk on this forum are nice people some are just downright rude , and i just love rude people they are sooooo easy to wind up , i love to be rude right back to them ............which is odd coz i,m not rude by nature......


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Come along ladies lets agree to disagree.:lol2: Somebody got out of bed the wrong side this morning me thinks:whistling2: Lets have a group hug :grouphug:


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

o_0 thread gone crazy

ive worked and loved horses for years and seen mary kings horses in action.

she pulled out one of her horses the year i went to one of the shows pipper funnel won at. 

if she had known there was somthing wrong with cavvy she wouldnt have had him working the event 

its a real shame. i agree with fenwoman in alot of respects how ever...

the grandnational is a perfect example!

its always the same hedge, the same corner that kills them off...in that case its the course. I would never bet on a race or show for this reason 

r.i.p


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

denny2 said:


> Sorry mate but you are wrong this forum is dominated by a select few who go out of their way to , victimise people and be very cruel with their posts , this maybe due to their obsessive love for animals but most arnt much better that the people they are tearing to shreds, some seem worse..To voice an opinion on this forum for some is just a means to show to others what they think is their superior knowlege on a subject reguardless if it offends people, i used the skunks escapades as an example of what its like to be ridiculed , when the boots on the other foot it dosnt go down well.....shame aint it . its also a shame that more peole dont stand up to what amounts to the abuse of forum members who may not be so knowlegeable........it seems that most people on here know jack sh...t about horses and should keep their nasty ideas and comments to themselves.......the human race would be in diastriats now if it wasnt for horses as a means of transport , *even jesus* had to rely on the equine to get about , if its good enough for him surly it should be good enough for us.....thankfully the majority of folk on this forum are nice people some are just downright rude , and i just love rude people they are sooooo easy to wind up , i love to be rude right back to them ............which is odd coz i,m not rude by nature......


Jesus didn't exsist! It's a story, in a book, written by man to control man!

I'm not commenting on the horse, harsh, sad.
I have a native pony, Welsh Sec C. She lives out 24/7 Fat thing she is cause it's winter and ever soooo hairy.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Sorry mate but you are wrong this forum is dominated by a select few who go out of their way to , victimise people and be very cruel with their posts , this maybe due to their obsessive love for animals but most arnt much better that the people they are tearing to shreds, some seem worse..To voice an opinion on this forum for some is just a means to show to others what they think is their superior knowlege on a subject reguardless if it offends people, i used the skunks escapades as an example of what its like to be ridiculed , when the boots on the other foot it dosnt go down well.....shame aint it . its also a shame that more peole dont stand up to what amounts to the abuse of forum members who may not be so knowlegeable........it seems that most people on here know jack sh...t about horses and should keep their nasty ideas and comments to themselves.......the human race would be in diastriats now if it wasnt for horses as a means of transport , even jesus had to rely on the equine to get about , if its good enough for him surly it should be good enough for us.....thankfully the majority of folk on this forum are nice people some are just downright rude , and i just love rude people they are sooooo easy to wind up , i love to be rude right back to them ............which is odd coz i,m not rude by nature......


 
But Aint you doing just what you have pointed out that others do in carrying on like you have on this thread ?

Im not beig funny or anything but every debate i have read that you have gotten into when your on the loosing end you get personal................just like you have on here bringing cats houdinie skunk into 

There was no need for you to make it personal but you did 

so please denny before you start spouting about others that victimis i suggest you go back over you posts on this thread and read them carefully as it was you that got all personal in this debate 


Why cant people just have a good ole debate without it turning into a nerh nerh nerh nerh nerh thread and then i wanna scratch your eyes out 


its being really pathetic lately it really is i think december has gotten to everyone 

But end of the day if you DONT want comments and so called vultures to prey on your threads and post then DONT blooming post in the 1st place 


There how simples that :lol2:


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> But Aint you doing just what you have pointed out that others do in carrying on like you have on this thread ?
> 
> Im not beig funny or anything but every debate i have read that you have gotten into when your on the loosing end you get personal................just like you have on here bringing cats houdinie skunk into
> 
> ...


Youre obviously one of the select few, you didnt read my post properly read it again and get the gist of why i posted what i posted . Some of you think that you,re so superior you can run rough shod over everyone , thats WHY i ran roughshod over some of the peeps posting on this forum , read it again hun , or dont you think you need to coz your,re so much better than everyone else.??? You cant comment on something you havnt read PROPERLY ...


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Youre obviously one of the select few, you didnt read my post properly read it again and get the gist of why i posted what i posted . Some of you think that you,re so superior you can run rough shod over everyone , thats WHY i ran roughshod over some of the peeps posting on this forum , read it again hun , or dont you think you need to coz your,re so much better than everyone else.??? You cant comment on something you havnt read PROPERLY ...


 
hey i wasnt having a go just saying how i saw what went on thats all 


ya know i really do give up 

im starting to think why the hell do i do what i do go out of my way to help people and animals to have it all thrown back in my face by someone like you who cant but help to get personal when they loose out in an argument 

no i wont bother reading it again cos the way im feeling right now i really do just feel like saying sod it all i cant be arsed 

i dont know why i bother doing what i do and helping people out an animals the way i do 

cos at the end of the day all i seem to get in return is people like you telling me i think im better than everyone else 

well you know what im not and i know im not 

would you like me to send on the dogs i have taken in an given homes onto you now then?

cos i cant be arsed no more and im better than everyone else oh and you seem like you can do a better job than me hey 


I used to love this place now i just feel like i wanna jack it all in because im not a bad person an i dont like to be made out to be one


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

You ok Emma hun.Some people just cant help themselves:whip: You do a wonderful job with the dogs so dont ever think otherwise. Denny is just being tempermental he has these moods:devil: Big Hugs to Emma:grouphug: and big telling offs for Denny for upsetting her:rant2:


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

I really do feel this thread should be locked now, it was not my intention when I started it for it to end up this way. It was for a discussion (maybe) around eventing and horses, and poor Cavvy in particular, but it has degenerated a bit more than it needed to.....

I am going to PM Wohic and ask her to lock it I think.

Thanks for those who replied. There is an RIP Call Again Cavalier thread here in the RIP section of the fourm if anyone wants to pay their respects to Cavvy. Some pictures of him would be lovely, if anyone has some, I know someone posted one on this thread that showed what a lively, beatiful horse he was.

xx


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> You ok Emma hun.Some people just cant help themselves:whip: You do a wonderful job with the dogs so dont ever think otherwise. Denny is just being tempermental he has these moods:devil: Big Hugs to Emma:grouphug: and big telling offs for Denny for upsetting her:rant2:


 
TBH shell i feel like giving it all up im an emotional wreck at the moment with this pup had pretty much no sleep at all this week been nursing her with a pee infection not to mention wounds she inflicts on me from bting me 

but hey ho im better than everyone else so i can pass her on to denny now yeah so he can be ripped to shreds have no sleep every night cos he is nursing a ill pup that aint even his.....................oh then he can have the added stress of having to may consider at some point she may have to be put to sleep if all he is doing fails 

YEAH IM SO UP MY OWN ASS AN ALL FOR MYSELF AINT I :bash:


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> You ok Emma hun.Some people just cant help themselves:whip: You do a wonderful job with the dogs so dont ever think otherwise. Denny is just being tempermental he has these moods:devil: Big Hugs to Emma:grouphug: and big telling offs for Denny for upsetting her:rant2:


 Dear me , i dont have moods i just hate reading damning and condemming posts there was no need for anyone to stick up for fenwoman she,s more than capable of doing it herself, what she posted was heartless and cruel and she needed telling that it was. To call someone a murderer coz her horse had an accident is unforgivable , the horses in that competition are well capable of doing what they do. Sometimes i feel a need to retaliate, if emma cant take critisism perhaps she shouldnt do what she does , i cant see why she took this so personally and got all "perhaps i should give up" or is it a case of being able to dish out but cant take ? . i accept my telling off Shell , but only for upsetting emma , but people really need to read a post properly before they wade in and pass emotion fired comment..soz Emma.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Em I didnt know she had a urine infection,horrid thing that, my lil rescue dog had one a few months ago.She sounds really hard work.IF it does go pear shaped with her at least YOU did everything humanly possible to help her.You gave her 200% no half measures with you hun.Denny has apologised now Im glad to say.(I should think so too) I hope your day gets better for ya Emma.When she bites is she grazing you or actually sinking her teeth in?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Dear me , i dont have moods i just hate reading damning and condemming posts there was no need for anyone to stick up for fenwoman she,s more than capable of doing it herself, what she posted was heartless and cruel and she needed telling that it was. To call someone a murderer coz her horse had an accident is unforgivable , the horses in that competition are well capable of doing what they do. Sometimes i feel a need to retaliate, if emma cant take critisism perhaps she shouldnt do what she does , i cant see why she took this so personally and got all "perhaps i should give up" or is it a case of being able to dish out but cant take ? . i accept my telling off Shell , but only for upsetting emma , but people really need to read a post properly before they wade in and pass emotion fired comment..soz Emma.


Maybes read your 1st post back over then tell me why i took this personally 

Do you realise how difficult it is doing what im doing ??? no well maybes you should step into my shoes and find out hey 

I can take critisism very well thank you but that wasnt critisim that was you telling me that im in the select few you pointed out on here to think they are better than everyone 

look i cant be bothered ok...................


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Em I didnt know she had a urine infection,horrid thing that, my lil rescue dog had one a few months ago.She sounds really hard work.IF it does go pear shaped with her at least YOU did everything humanly possible to help her.You gave her 200% no half measures with you hun.Denny has apologised now Im glad to say.(I should think so too) I hope your day gets better for ya Emma.When she bites is she grazing you or actually sinking her teeth in?


 
She skinks teeth right in aint a lil scratch...........has been witnessed too cat an ditta saw her do it when they were last here


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> TBH shell i feel like giving it all up im an emotional wreck at the moment with this pup had pretty much no sleep at all this week been nursing her with a pee infection not to mention wounds she inflicts on me from bting me
> 
> but hey ho im better than everyone else so i can pass her on to denny now yeah so he can be ripped to shreds have no sleep every night cos he is nursing a ill pup that aint even his.....................oh then he can have the added stress of having to may consider at some point she may have to be put to sleep if all he is doing fails
> 
> YEAH IM SO UP MY OWN ASS AN ALL FOR MYSELF AINT I :bash:


 No Thanks, you put yourself into this situation , deal with it , dont cry about it now, i do sympathise it must be hell. I,m in the same boat with my horse the farrier crippled him and now i,m trying to get him better so he can just walk with out pain let alone do anything else but i,m not whinging about it...I feel like killing the farrier everyday tho.....Get some sleep you must be exhausted.Theres only so much a person can do.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> No Thanks, you put yourself into this situation , deal with it , dont cry about it now, i do sympathise it must be hell. I,m in the same boat with my horse the farrier crippled him and now i,m trying to get him better so he can just walk with out pain let alone do anything else but i,m not whinging about it...I feel like killing the farrier everyday tho.....Get some sleep you must be exhausted.Theres only so much a person can do.


 
But i took a pup in to foster for 3 months that was supposed to be in fantastic condition..............i didnt know her true state until she got here.................turn her away from my door now that would have been a humain thing to do send her back to suffer more 

im not looking for sympathy never had otherwise i would tell the true effects of what im going through with her 

sorry for what your going through with your horse i hope he pulls through ok without too many problems


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> But i took a pup in to foster for 3 months that was supposed to be in fantastic condition..............i didnt know her true state until she got here.................turn her away from my door now that would have been a humain thing to do send her back to suffer more
> 
> im not looking for sympathy never had otherwise i would tell the true effects of what im going through with her
> 
> sorry for what your going through with your horse i hope he pulls through ok without too many problems


 Cheers hun , if the pups got an infection she,ll feel rotton and may well be biting coz she,s in pain and hopefully when the pain goes she,ll stop biting you . Good luck with her hun , it sounds as though youre gonna need some, and i,m really sorry i upset you , take care x.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> Cheers hun , if the pups got an infection she,ll feel rotton and may well be biting coz she,s in pain and hopefully when the pain goes she,ll stop biting you . Good luck with her hun , it sounds as though youre gonna need some, and i,m really sorry i upset you , take care x.


 
Nah its not the infection hun lol she is just a vampire dog an likes the taste f blood :lol2:

She has major aggression issues hun that im battling with and sorta winning so far on so fingers crossed : victory:


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> Nah its not the infection hun lol she is just a vampire dog an likes the taste f blood :lol2:
> 
> She has major aggression issues hun that im battling with and sorta winning so far on so fingers crossed : victory:


 You need a medal hun . if its not fear aggression it might never be sorted and her future is far from certain , very few are gonna want an out and out aggressive dog....keep up the good work , youre paving your way to heaven ...:notworthy:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> You need a medal hun . if its not fear aggression it might never be sorted and her future is far from certain , very few are gonna want an out and out aggressive dog....keep up the good work , youre paving your way to heaven ...:notworthy:


 
I know hun thats why it hit a nerve with me  cos if i cant beat her aggression and it aint fear aggression either  then she may have to be pts


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> I know hun thats why it hit a nerve with me  cos if i cant beat her aggression and it aint fear aggression either  then she may have to be pts


 If she wont make a family pet which it sounds as though she wont she may be suitable to someone who uses huskies as sled dogs , its becoming popular, she,d be well looked after and put to the use huskies are origionally bred for , its an option rather than put her to sleep.......


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

At this rate Em ya wont have any fingers left to cross:whistling2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

denny2 said:


> If she wont make a family pet which it sounds as though she wont she may be suitable to someone who uses huskies as sled dogs , its becoming popular, she,d be well looked after and put to the use huskies are origionally bred for , its an option rather than put her to sleep.......


Denny, the pup is that poorly bred that in no way could she ever do what sled dogs were bred to do. her body is so malformed and she suffers badly because of it. She is far from healthy enough to be pulling a sled or even running any distance without her being in an unmeasureable amount of pain.


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Denny, the pup is that poorly bred that in no way could she ever do what sled dogs were bred to do. her body is so malformed and she suffers badly because of it. She is far from healthy enough to be pulling a sled or even running any distance without her being in an unmeasureable amount of pain.


 thats a shame, its a shame she was bred in the first place, and a shame that poor Emma is desperatly trying to put it right, if its that deformed and obviously not suitable as pet it should be destoyed for its own sake.sorry to be blunt here but it sounds as though the dog is a hopeless case....


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

last comment from me on this matter, not been on here for a few pages cos ive been ill. 

at the end of the day i stated my opinion, it might not have been the same as anyone elses especially dennys but at least i didnt get personal, and im proud of that fact, that i didnt resort to childish tactics. Im also pretty damn sure i didnt go out my way to ridducule anyone with my posts, another thing im proud of. And i certainly dont claim to be a know it all, quite the opposite in fact and i dont bully or belittle anyone. If sayin what you feel without gettin personal is bullyin and belittlin then theres others guilty of a lot worse on this thread as they did make it a personal attack. 

From now one im gunna spend my time talkin to people who actually dont mind people having a different opinion to them, and not waste it on deaf ears

ps emma, with regards to the pup, ill get ditta to check her bank today with regards the money for her xxx


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

denny2 said:


> thats a shame, its a shame she was bred in the first place, and a shame that poor Emma is desperatly trying to put it right, if its that deformed and obviously not suitable as pet it should be destoyed for its own sake.sorry to be blunt here but it sounds as though the dog is a hopeless case....


what do you know about the situation really? emmas not stupid she will do the best for Nuka and comments like yours are insulting and unhelpful...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

ami_j said:


> what do you know about the situation really? emmas not stupid she will do the best for Nuka and comments like yours are insulting and unhelpful...


 
glad you pointed that out hun..... what was that denny was sayin about heartless comments that didnt need to be made.......<<shakes head>>

emma has lots of support in helping with this pup and we are here if she ever needs us. The pup has some issues but Emma has always come through in the past in the most bleakest of situations and i have total faith in her that she can bring this pup back round to being a loving part of the family. Her deformities dont neccessarily mean she cannot live a happy life and her behaviour im sure can be worked on


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> glad you pointed that out hun..... what was that denny was sayin about heartless comments that didnt need to be made.......<<shakes head>>


i found it really rude and insensitive tbh


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

ami_j said:


> i found it really rude and insensitive tbh


denny is entitled to their own opinion and im not gunna bring them down on that one because then id be a hypocrit cos ive said some things on this thread that might be perceived to be insensitive.....then again i wasnt the one preachin about it was i.......:lol2:


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

wow this thread has gone from a horse to a skunk an now a pup its amazing how things get turnt, 

oh emmaj i think ya doing a wonderful job with the pup an dont let anyone tell you different, theres not enough people like you in this world that do what you do, i take my hat off to ya emma :notworthy::notworthy:


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

ami_j said:


> what do you know about the situation really? emmas not stupid she will do the best for Nuka and comments like yours are insulting and unhelpful...


The way I read it I didn't think Denny wasn't trying to be insulting or hurtful to Emma.

Jo


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

I think anyone who actually rides knows you can tell when a horse is enjoying itself. A horse that doesn't want to compete at that level simply won't reach the level. 

And they do enjoy it, and get positively excited about it. Cruelty when it comes to horsekeeping is actually those who keep the horse stabled up 24/7 and do little to no riding. I've seen it, its common place on livery yards. 

This horse died doing something it enjoyed, you just need to look at photos of them doing it to see their forward pricked ears, they are being physically and mentally stimulated.

You need a proper partenership with the horse which includes building trust, or you simply can't get around a demanding course, you can bet she will mourn his loss as they became a team training together. Sweeping statements about her not caring are meaningless as they have no grounding.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

mrfluff said:


> The way I read it I didn't think Denny wasn't trying to be insulting or hurtful to Emma.
> 
> Jo


point is emma knows the score does she REALLY need reminding?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

As Ami has said I know the score with this pup.................which is wat makes it so hard...............im desperate to bring her through this so i DONT have to go down the route of PTS but if i have to take that route it will NOT be taken lightly and be the very very last resort 


Hence why i am emotional wreck no matter what good you do if something goes wrong it always seems worse


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> As Ami has said I know the score with this pup.................which is wat makes it so hard...............im desperate to bring her through this so i DONT have to go down the route of PTS but if i have to take that route it will NOT be taken lightly and be the very very last resort
> 
> 
> Hence why i am emotional wreck no matter what good you do if something goes wrong it always seems worse


as it should be hunny your a star in my eyes for doing so much ,too many people just expecting to have the pieces picking up for them when they have had enough of their new "toy"


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

The point I was making is that in the case of this pup she serious can not be a sled dog. I didn't in anyway say she didn't have right to a chance to see if something else can be done for her. I have a 8 yr old Northern Inuit who used to love sledding and running dragging me about. In fact if he saw you pick up his harness and not l#his lead he would shake and dribble and run in circles he would get that excited, til I lay the harness out on the floor and he would stand in it for me to pull it over. 
However he had 10 inches of bowel removed after rupturing his bladder in a freak accident with a GSD who thought she was the Rhino.
No he can't do this anymore, does that mean he should be put to sleep then Denny?


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> The point I was making is that in the case of this pup she serious can not be a sled dog. I didn't in anyway say she didn't have right to a chance to see if something else can be done for her. I have a 8 yr old Northern Inuit who used to love sledding and running dragging me about. In fact if he saw you pick up his harness and not l#his lead he would shake and dribble and run in circles he would get that excited, til I lay the harness out on the floor and he would stand in it for me to pull it over.
> However he had 10 inches of bowel removed after rupturing his bladder in a freak accident with a GSD who thought she was the Rhino.
> No he can't do this anymore, does that mean he should be put to sleep then Denny?


If he had uncontrolled aggression issues . YES ! but this isnt about him . IS IT.????????..last post on this subject, i sincerely hope emma can sort this unfortunate pup out and she gets to see that the hard work she is putting in is worth it.....It seems to me that you are trying to pick another argument...It was a suggestion that she may become a sled dog as she may never become a pet how was i to know that it is too deformed to work , some folk (rolls eyes).


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> If he had uncontrolled aggression issues . YES


With montering which i have done over the past few weeks i can control the aggression an i can see when its gonna happen an most the time know im gonna get bit if i am 

If there is a possibly chance for this pup to live a normal pet life then i will NOT take it away from her out of being selfish and not being bothered to put up with it 

TBH i wish it was that easy in the human world.................have someone put to sleep for violent or aggressive behaviour................darn the world would be such a different place


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> With montering which i have done over the past few weeks i can control the aggression an i can see when its gonna happen an most the time know im gonna get bit if i am
> 
> If there is a possibly chance for this pup to live a normal pet life then i will NOT take it away from her out of being selfish and not being bothered to put up with it
> 
> *TBH i wish it was that easy in the human world.................have someone put to sleep for violent or aggressive behaviour................darn the world would be such a different* *place*


seconded : victory:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> seconded : victory:


its true though if i was to accompany someone abroad to be with them while they decided to die..............i would be done for aiding a murder................But i can walk into a vets at anytime an say here mate murder my dog now im bored of it with no repercushions :bash:


The world is so fecked up it really is


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> seconded : victory:


 if that comment is aimed at me , at no point have i been aggressive, i agree , violent and aggressive people and animals should be destroyed, if this pup does make it into a household as a pet and it bites the face off a child at some point, it really will be a job well done in its rehabilitation.Its not a case of not being bothered about trying to rehab sometimes its just not worth it, I once rehomed an aggressive bearded collie , she was ok for a while then one day out of the blue she attacked my yorkshire terrier for no reason and nearly killed him , so i had her destroyed as he could easily have been one of my neices or nephews she was chewing up .....Ive been there hun its not nice....


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

denny2 said:


> if that comment is aimed at me , at no point have i been aggressive, i agree , violent and aggressive people and animals should be destroyed, if this pup does make it into a household as a pet and it bites the face off a child at some point, it really will be a job well done in its rehabilitation.Its not a case of not being bothered about trying to rehab sometimes its just not worth it, I once rehomed an aggressive bearded collie , she was ok for a while then one day out of the blue she attacked my yorkshire terrier for no reason and nearly killed him , so i had her destroyed as he could easily have been one of my neices or nephews she was chewing up .....Ive been there hun its not nice....


 
And do you really think i would be stupid enough to rehome a dog with a history of biting to someone with kids NO for god sake nice to know people have such faith in me :bash:

If she is every rehomed she will havea very detailed history with her and only go to someone who knows that they are doing not an effin numpty :bash:

Im not an idiot an will not be treated like one so there for im going to go an let my boiling blood calm 

i bid you good day


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

denny2 said:


> if that comment is aimed at me , at no point have i been aggressive, i agree , violent and aggressive people and animals should be destroyed, if this pup does make it into a household as a pet and it bites the face off a child at some point, it really will be a job well done in its rehabilitation.Its not a case of not being bothered about trying to rehab sometimes its just not worth it, I once rehomed an aggressive bearded collie , she was ok for a while then one day out of the blue she attacked my yorkshire terrier for no reason and nearly killed him , so i had her destroyed as he could easily have been one of my neices or nephews she was chewing up .....Ive been there hun its not nice....


 
aimed at you? get over yourself, not everythin in the world is about you, i agreed with a comment emma made, not once did i say who it should be applied to


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> its true though if i was to accompany someone abroad to be with them while they decided to die..............i would be done for aiding a murder................But i can walk into a vets at anytime an say here mate murder my dog now im bored of it with no repercushions :bash:
> 
> 
> The world is so fecked up it really is


 IF the powers that be had been at my dads bedside while he was dying of cancer , begging to be put to sleep they would allow it, HIs last words to me were "they wouldnt treat a dog like this they,d put it down" To be able to go and have an animal put to sleep is a privalege we dont have with our families, especially if it is suffering..I would have gladly taken my dad to the vets that afternoon and had him euthanased and i know he would have thanked me for it....If you were that dog would you be happy if you had to bite someone to get them to leave you alone , which is probably why she is doing it.......But no doubt i,ll be wrong and will be told so. .....


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

missk said:


> I think anyone who actually rides knows you can tell when a horse is enjoying itself. A horse that doesn't want to compete at that level simply won't reach the level.
> 
> And they do enjoy it, and get positively excited about it. Cruelty when it comes to horsekeeping is actually those who keep the horse stabled up 24/7 and do little to no riding. I've seen it, its common place on livery yards.
> 
> ...


Well it's nice to see that someone is staying on topic


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> And do you really think i would be stupid enough to rehome a dog with a history of biting to someone with kids NO for god sake nice to know people have such faith in me :bash:
> 
> If she is every rehomed she will havea very detailed history with her and only go to someone who knows that they are doing not an effin numpty :bash:
> 
> ...


 i never said you were an idiot orthat you would rehome it with a person with a child , it could escape , be picked up by the dog warden then be destroyed as its aggressive , could you live with that knowlege.....Even people who know what they are doing make mistakes....


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

denny2 said:


> i never said you were an idiot orthat you would rehome it with a person with a child , it could escape , be picked up by the dog warden then be destroyed as its aggressive , could you live with that knowlege.....Even people who know what they are doing make mistakes....


 and some people who dont know the full story wont shut up and let it be


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

ami_j said:


> and some people who dont know the full story wont shut up and let it be


 Bite at me and i,ll bite back. (perhaps i should be put to sleep too )......nuff said....


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:
so hows the weather in everyones neck of the woods? :lol2:


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

missk said:


> I think anyone who actually rides knows you can tell when a horse is enjoying itself. A horse that doesn't want to compete at that level simply won't reach the level.
> 
> And they do enjoy it, and get positively excited about it. Cruelty when it comes to horsekeeping is actually those who keep the horse stabled up 24/7 and do little to no riding. I've seen it, its common place on livery yards.
> 
> ...



:notworthy: Amen to that. For those who haven't seen the videos in the r.i.p section, heres some piccys of cavvy..you can see just from the images how much he's enjoying it.
YouTube - R.I.P Call Again Cavalier read description
YouTube - Cavvy//Run

Absolutely gorgeous horse, I hope his owners are coping well. At the end of the day I think everyone should put themselves in their shoes. How devastated you have been when you've lost a pet, be it a dog, a cat, a mouse etc.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:
> so hows the weather in everyones neck of the woods? :lol2:


 Well Cat dear, The schools in the whole of Rochdale are to be kept closed tomorrow due to the weather warning!!!

Which is just flipping typical as Yesterday was also a snowday in which I had stuff planned which went ***s up so rearranged to do tomorrow and well, I'll be stuck with the kids all day instead.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Well Cat dear, The schools in the whole of Rochdale are to be kept closed tomorrow due to the weather warning!!!
> 
> Which is just flipping typical as Yesterday was also a snowday in which I had stuff planned which went ***s up so rearranged to do tomorrow and well, I'll be stuck with the kids all day instead.



Sounds like a good thing i'm not going visiting the family in rochdale,shaw oldham etc tomorrow then after all!


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## kayw (Dec 10, 2008)

medusa0373 said:


> Well we've just been up to Cardiff to watch the first "Express Eventing" international cup.
> 
> Was a fab day out, apart from being very cold, but it was spoiled by that awful fall Mary King took - not 100% what's happened to her horse Call Again Cavalier but he didn't look good. Looked like he broke a leg or his pelvis...  His right hind looked like it was just swinging from the hip, when he eventually got to his feet.
> 
> Did anyone else go?


 
What happened to cavvy was horrible. but other competitors had sucessfull times there. You can see videos of the rounds of, and interveiws from Caroline Powell, Mark Todd and Alex Hua Tian here:
Express Eventing '08 - Horse Herohttp://www.reptileforums.co.uk/othe...ress-eventing-anyone-else-go-post2959947.html


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