# A new type of incubator with text messages



## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi all,
I dont tend to come here very often now as I dont have my Dragons anymore but I am in the middle of making an incubator that will send the user a text message in a power cut if the incubators temperature was to drop below a certain temperature. All the little details have been taken care of but i was just wondering what a breeder might pay for something like this..

eg
there's a power cut, your at work or at a freinds house and there's a power cut at your home and you dont know about it. The device i have will alert you when the temperature get to say 29degrees C (just as an example) so slowly the temperature from the incubator is dropping. But because you've had the text message you now have chance to get home and maybe lug in a generator or whatever else you may use to get the temperature back up agian.

Would this system be of any use to any one? Also, what kind of price would you be willing to pay for the service. Its a one off cost, the only added payment would be 5p per text message (and there shouldn't be many if you dont get power cuts).

Im building it into a lucky herp incubator although i can build it into anything really. (I've spoken to a local breeder and has told me that he would pay quite a lot for a system like this, im just looking for a broader outlook as to the cost now really)

If you dont want your answer in the forum feel free to mail me any questions or just the price you'd be willing to pay. 

This isnt a catch or a con, its a project im doing in Uni

Thanks in advance for any replies


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

Why only target incubators? You'll lose a huge portion of market which you could hit with the same idea, clearly you haven't put much thought into it.

Right, Now to get to the new plan suggestion, why not just a simple plug in device that would be plugged into the wall? So you would plug into the wall in the same room (or rather on the same ring main/circuit) as the incubator or reptile room, or computer systems room etc etc big lists aka big market aka bigger success. Then, when the power to that circuit goes what the device is plugged into then it automatically, immediately when the power goes off sends a SMS or prerecorded phone call. I don't want to know the power is off when the temperature is dropping, i want to know before it drops, so i can get there sooner to put it right.

Okay, your not exactly monitoring purely an incubators temperature kind of thing, you wouldn't know when the stat fuse has blown or heating element fuse has blown etc but whats the chances? If you really do want to target stuff by temperature then you could always include an auxiliary input on the device in the wall which your incubator would be connected to or whatever other device.

Hopefully you can see where I am coming from. Would you be planning on using a home phone line or a sim mobile like device?


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## patterkillar (Sep 16, 2010)

most people who would spend that on an incubator, would be breeding a lot, and would require a very large incubator, for a range of species, what size would the incubator be ?

a seperate devices with sensor .you can attach to different size types incubators, would be handy


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

patterkillar said:


> a seperate devices with sensor .you can attach to different size types incubators, would be handy


Just like the device that plugs in and detects no power, the temp would be auxiliary to this so could be incorporated with ANY incubator for instance :2thumb:


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## patterkillar (Sep 16, 2010)

eightball said:


> Just like the device that plugs in and detects no power, the temp would be auxiliary to this so could be incorporated with ANY incubator for instance :2thumb:


yea,

there would be a lot of demand from alot of field like catering, ect


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## Desert Ghost (Nov 16, 2012)

How much would i pay for an incubator? 

Not much more than the going rate. 

How much would i pay for a GSM module to add to it?

Less than it would currently cost. GSM module, sim card, data plan, it all adds up and i dont think it could be cost effective for me at this moment in time to be honest.


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

OK ill try n answer these questions one by one.

I chose incubators as a starting project, gotta plan getting it right before i go full scale ie, into tanks with other snakes/reptiles etc. A friend of mine breeds snakes and when he got talking to me about figures if he was to lose the eggs the numbers were worth saving.

The reason its not a straight forward plug in the wall device is because if the power tuns off its as useless as anything else than is plugged in in the house too. (this has a straight forward external power source too)

The reason I've chosen to monitor temperature drops over power cuts is that power cuts (at least where i live) don't tend to last for more than about an hour, but to measure the power supply rather than the temperature would be a fairly straightforward switch for me to make. If the customer (yourselves), would prefer that, then its a switch I'd be more than willing to change, but you'd find yourself with more text message alerts (that would cost you 5p per text)

It's based off a home phone line (so long as you pay your home phone, it has its own power supply so wouldn't be affected by a general power cut)

The unit i have is actually a stand alone unit that can quite easily be added to anything you have currently or may even have in the future, and i was using the lucky herp incubator as an example, just to give me an idea of whether people would be interested or not. At a one off cost, the unit alone has cost me £100,but with bulk buying that will bring the costs down, and you can also monitor more than one tank at a time. 

I know i'm just using my friend as an example, but he's said that he'd be willing to pay more than triple that so the simple fact that, if this unit was to save just one clutch of eggs then this unit will have already paid for itself. I know its each to their own and some people wouldn't be interested in anything like this, its just a project idea i have and am already in the process of making it.

Please feel free to ask any more questions, some idea's might even help me to improve the unit as well!!!


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

The text message service to sign up to is a free registration service, so there will be no regular bills or contracts to be paid. The only bill you would get from them is 5 pence per text message that you may/may not get. So if you don't get any power cuts you wont be charged for anything.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

boonyboyo said:


> OK ill try n answer these questions one by one.
> 
> I chose incubators as a starting project, gotta plan getting it right before i go full scale ie, into tanks with other snakes/reptiles etc. A friend of mine breeds snakes and when he got talking to me about figures if he was to lose the eggs the numbers were worth saving.
> 
> ...


Right, Instead of explaining everything in a paragraph i'll summarise it for you

- The sooner you get the message notifying you that there is a powercut the better
- It would allow you to get to the eggs sooner to rectify the problem
- You CAN stick with original plan and detect for temp drop but to ONLY detect temp drop would easily lose 90% of potential market
- Noone cares if they have to pay an extra 5p every time there is a little powercut, Everyone cares though if they lost eggs because their device waited for a temp drop rather than a powercut though
- There is a clear lack of knowledge or thought here or both, if you say something like a powercut only lasts less than an hour in your area because most reptile species I believe, their eggs would be at the end of their life (dead) if the heat supply was lost for anywhere near for up to an hour
- Also, this has nothing to do with *your area*, it is to do with ALL your target markets area, unless your only targeting your area?.
- You also need to consider that if your target markets landline is dependent on a power source, whether it be in the property or external to the property, then when the power is lost then so is the entire products viability.
- Also this "The reason its not a straight forward plug in the wall device is because if the power tuns off its as useless as anything else than is plugged in in the house too." Does not make sense, of course if you was relying soley on the buildings power source to message you when the power is lost would clearly not work, I didnt say this is what you would be doing, it only plugs into the house supply to detect when the power is lost, it would then use another source of electricity to keep the circuit powered to then message you. Instead of using batteries you seem to be planning on using then why not use a small permanent internal battery in the device that charges from the buildings power when there is power? You need to bare in mind, this power supply to message you only needs to last a few seconds, its not like it will be constantly giving you updates on the power right?

All the above may seem like im picking at all the little cons about the product idea but i don't think you've criticized your own idea at all which IS essential when producing a product thats going to work and earn you money rather than lose it.


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## Desert Ghost (Nov 16, 2012)

boonyboyo said:


> The text message service to sign up to is a free registration service, so there will be no regular bills or contracts to be paid. The only bill you would get from them is 5 pence per text message that you may/may not get. So if you don't get any power cuts you wont be charged for anything.


How is it sending the text, over GSM network?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Would it not just be easier to plug the incubator into a UPS? 
If you're at work and get a text message, telling you that your power has gone off you then have to convince your boss that it's a valid reason to go home. Once you got home you still need to find somebody who's not at work and not had a power cut, to allow you to take them round there.

If your power is only off for about an hour, by the time you've got out of work, got home and got sorted... the power will be back on


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

Meko said:


> Would it not just be easier to plug the incubator into a UPS?
> If you're at work and get a text message, telling you that your power has gone off you then have to convince your boss that it's a valid reason to go home. Once you got home you still need to find somebody who's not at work and not had a power cut, to allow you to take them round there.
> 
> If your power is only off for about an hour, by the time you've got out of work, got home and got sorted... the power will be back on



yes for this, after i posted last thursday i found out about UPS's and i will be using one to power this notification device and the home router (so that the internet is still active during the power cut). 

Have also been thinking about using a UPS to keep the incubator powered up so that is can still send a text message and keep the eggs warm while you still get chance to get home an do something about it


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

Desert Ghost said:


> How is it sending the text, over GSM network?


no, it will be via the internet, as i mentioned in the post above this one, i think im going to use a UPS to keep your internet router powered up which will still give the device a chance to send you a text message via the internet


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

eightball said:


> - The sooner you get the message notifying you that there is a powercut the better Agreed and thats why i said in the last post, that if thats what the customer prefers then I have no issue in monitoring power instead of or as well as temp
> - It would allow you to get to the eggs sooner to rectify the problem
> - You CAN stick with original plan and detect for temp drop but to ONLY detect temp drop would easily lose 90% of potential market
> - Noone cares if they have to pay an extra 5p every time there is a little powercut, Everyone cares though if they lost eggs because their device waited for a temp drop rather than a powercut thoughAs above
> ...


I like feedback, which i why i brought this up in this forum in the breeding section in particular, I've critisized the project so much you wouldnt believe so please dont think that you know what i have and havent done

Oops i've just noticed how difficult lime green is to read on here so apologies for any squinting


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

boonyboyo said:


> I like feedback, which i why i brought this up in this forum in the breeding section in particular, I've critisized the project so much you wouldnt believe so please dont think that you know what i have and havent done


I think you're still lost and certainly mis-understood meko's post.

Meko suggested the use of a UPS to back up the incubator not the text message system. The UPS is an un-interuptable power supply so when the power goes off, the incubator is then powered by the UPS system until power is reinstated (or when the UPS power runs out). 

You are adamant that the UKs power cuts don't last very long, "usually less than an hour" so lets say we have a 100W powersource for our incubator which is bigger than the average general keepers most probably. 
I'd take a very good guess that heat is on 33% of the time and off 66% of the time so that gives us a permanent average power rating of 33W, agreed?
I just went to ebay, clicked first link i came to which is a £48.00 UPS 
It is 600VA which lasts 5minutes at full load so if i do the maths quickly,
600VA = 600w affectively,
Lets include extra inefficiency just to be on the safe side so 600w x 0.9 (90% efficient) so that is 540w
our incubator is at an average of 33W so 540/33 = 16.4 (is our multiplier for the last time)
so, 16.4 x 5mins = 82minutes run time at 33W

so 82minutes backup time for the incubator exceeds the 60minutes the "power cut" will last for

So, for £48, i have managed to back my incubator power up when the power goes off, without having to go home, without having to get texts and £48 is almost definitely going to be cheaper than the product unit cost of your message system. Dont forget, you need to bare in mind that the £48 IS an actual backup aswel rather than a text just to let you know your eggs are going to be at the end of their life.

Yes, what if the powercut is longer than 82minutes and you haven't got a text to let me know, simple, if its really an issue, get an even better UPS, still probably cheaper than the messaging product unit cost, again without the hassle.

Also, I am in disbelief that you have really criticized the product like you say, if you did, you wouldn't still be messaging about it


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

eightball said:


> I think you're still lost and certainly mis-understood meko's post.
> 
> Meko suggested the use of a UPS to back up the incubator not the text message system. The UPS is an un-interuptable power supply so when the power goes off, the incubator is then powered by the UPS system until power is reinstated (or when the UPS power runs out).
> 
> ...


not misunderstood, i metioned it in his post


boonyboyo said:


> Have also been thinking about using a UPS to keep the incubator powered up so that is can still send a text message and keep the eggs warm while you still get chance to get home an do something about it


if the device isnt plugged in, it will be as useless as the rest of the things in the house and only uses 0.7 W/h so hardly a drain on the system


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

boonyboyo said:


> not misunderstood, i metioned it in his post
> 
> if the device isnt plugged in, it will be as useless as the rest of the things in the house and only uses 0.7 W/h so hardly a drain on the system


I'm still lost, if you've got a UPS where its likely to last more than an hour and you say power cuts last less than an hour in the UK then whats the problem with just UPS? Why would anyone pay an extra X amount of money for something they don't need?

If its because "power cuts can last longer" then id just spend an extra £100 or whatever on a UPS that will give me a good extra 2-4 hours longer to warm the eggs rather than spend on a messaging system that will tell me something i cant do about.
What am i going to be able to do when Ive been told the power is off by a text? Get some magic power source on the go? I guess, the only solution would be to hire a generator or something, but by the time, inconvenience and cost of doing that, id be able to have spent an extra £100 at the same cost of generator to spend on an even better UPS that will last again another 2-4hours, in which, ill still have the UPS as a permanent asset rather than hiring a generator or something every time the power goes off. 

After ALL of that, bare all these brief situations to mind,
Phone line to modem is down so device cant connect to internet,
The device for some reason doesn't work, (eg the messaging system online is down, there is a random device problem)
The inconvenience of having to put your modem through a UPS that could very well be the other side of the house 
I have no phone signal, I forgot my phone, my phone was on silent, my phone has no battery
I'm in something important so i cant do anything about it anyway
I'm away from the area for a while

That's just what i can list without thinking, apologies if I am coming across to be an arse and/or downing your idea but im trying to save you wasting your time, money and effort


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## Desert Ghost (Nov 16, 2012)

boonyboyo said:


> no, it will be via the internet, as i mentioned in the post above this one, i think im going to use a UPS to keep your internet router powered up which will still give the device a chance to send you a text message via the internet


If you have a power cut, what is going to power the internet? 

What happens if the internet is down when the unit needs to send a text?

The device you are describing sounds really easy to conceive and build, you have to ask yourself why no one else is making them?


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

Desert Ghost said:


> If you have a power cut, what is going to power the internet?
> 
> What happens if the internet is down when the unit needs to send a text?
> 
> The device you are describing sounds really easy to conceive and build, you have to ask yourself why no one else is making them?


This is already discussed in one of the posts, the OP would intend to power the router via a UPS, wired phone lines are usually still on when there is a power cut also so there would be a line as well. As i said though, the inconvenience of putting your router through a UPS would be a big downfall again.

The device doesn't sound easy to build to me, This would definitely be a project for more than 1 experienced electronics designer/programmer/engineer, there are too many things to be sorted in a project like this, one main thing would be the company sending the texts for the device? 5p per text for more of a one off thing seems a little low to me, most mobile networks charge double that alone as a standard rate text?


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## boonyboyo (Jan 10, 2010)

eightball said:


> I'm still lost, if you've got a UPS where its likely to last more than an hour and you say power cuts last less than an hour in the UK then whats the problem with just UPS? Why would anyone pay an extra X amount of money for something they don't need?there is nothing wrong in just using a UPS, but at least that the subject has been brought up, others are now aware of what it is and can get one themselves if they were ever curious what might happen if the power goes out
> 
> If its because "power cuts can last longer" then id just spend an extra £100 or whatever on a UPS that will give me a good extra 2-4 hours longer to warm the eggs rather than spend on a messaging system that will tell me something i cant do about.
> What am i going to be able to do when Ive been told the power is off by a text? Get some magic power source on the go?some people will already be aware of a UPS and may even have them already, i know that i comment on my friend that breeds reptiles but he has a generator on standby just in case he was to lose the power, because he didn't know about UPS's, but now that he knows about them he may even get one of them as well (i think you actually mentioned you went and searched a UPS too and im not saying you didn't know but maybe you've gained some extra knowledge about the subject too. I guess, the only solution would be to hire a generator or something, but by the time, inconvenience and cost of doing that, id be able to have spent an extra £100 at the same cost of generator to spend on an even better UPS that will last again another 2-4hours, in which, ill still have the UPS as a permanent asset rather than hiring a generator or something every time the power goes off.
> ...


No i don't think that your coming across as an arse it OK, it's just a university project and not necessarily a business project just yet, i think its quite obvious that you wouldn't get one of these and its feedback from people like you that actually find floors and potentially give an opportunity to make the device even better. Things like the router possibly being across the other side of the house to an incubator, its something that I've questioned myself but not really come up with an answer just yet. But will be thinking about options to help with this.

My main scope was to make a device that will send a text message when the temp drops, which has morphed into power cuts, which has morphed into UPS to provide a power source when things go wrong. which is more of a backup system to an incubator to help prolong the heat required to incubate the eggs.


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

sounds like a good idea to me! though I don't really understand the feedback to confusing!
however I just thought of an idea wether you could also make the incuabtor send you text when the eggs have hatched?
by motion sensors or somthing mabye?
just an idea


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