# leo question



## jmaster (Oct 3, 2007)

hi all
what would you get from a 

blizzard X temper albino het 100% blizzard?

thanks


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

jmaster said:


> hi all
> what would you get from a
> 
> blizzard X temper albino het 100% blizzard?
> ...


50%	Normal HET Tremper Albino, Blizzard
50%	Blizzard HET Tremper Albino


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## jmaster (Oct 3, 2007)

reply would i still get blazing blizzards if i bred the

Normal HET Tremper Albino, Blizzard X temper albino het 100% blizzard?

thanks


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

If you breed a normal to a blizzard you will get normals het blizzard the same principal for Tremper Albinos too.

You will only get Blizzards if you breed Blizzard to het Blizzard or Blizzard

Unless you mean you have normal het blizzard het tremper to breed with a tremper het blizzard, if thats the case maybe some blazing blizzards are on the horizon......


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## jmaster (Oct 3, 2007)

well u said if i breed the 
blizzard X temper albino het 100% blizzard
id get 
50% Normal HET Tremper Albino, Blizzard
50% Blizzard HET Tremper Albino 

so say i only got 
normal HET temper albino, blizzards and bred that to the temper albino het 100% blizzard

them would i get any blazin blizzards?

or would i have to breed a 
blizzard HET tremper albino X tremper albino HET 100% blizzard?
thanks


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

the way i understand it is if you breed 2 of the same het together you will get a 50% chance of getting a normal or the het

And yes if you breed tremper het blizzard and normal het blizzard het tremper although the chance is lower you can get red eyed blizzards


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## jmaster (Oct 3, 2007)

o rite ok then
didnt know you could get red eyed blizzards


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

They are called blazing blizzards, the red eye is the albino gene


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## marcgroovyge (Apr 3, 2008)

Blizzard x tremper het blizzard will give you 
Normal het blizzard 
Normal het blizzard het tremper 
Blizzard 
Blizzard het tremper


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

I think you mean Diablo blancos matt, blazzing blizards dont normaly have red eyes, they get that from the raptor gene being introduced, if you look on ron trempers site, leopard gecko.com it explains how you get the red eyed morph .


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## marcgroovyge (Apr 3, 2008)

Albinos have no black pigmentation so blazing blizzards have red eyes. Diablos and diablo blancos are blizzards and blazing blizzards with eclipse eyes. Thats your difference


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

soz mate, but i beg to differ, I have blazing blizzards or blancos with full eclipse eyes, and albino eyes, and one with a normal and a snake eye,
the one ive got with red eyes is a Diablo blanco that has raptor gene in.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

tonkaz0 said:


> soz mate, but i beg to differ, I have blazing blizzards or blancos with full eclipse eyes, and albino eyes, and one with a normal and a snake eye,
> the one ive got with red eyes is a Diablo blanco that has raptor gene in.


*nods*
from LG Wiki ~
" The appearance of the Diablo Blancos is a white bodied Leopard Gecko with solid Red Eyes. "
they also have a fair few shots of eye's from blizzards too


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

Technically a blazing blizzard is leucistic and not an albino.



The *DIABLO BLANCO* genetics have revealed three eye variations and two body color variants. At the time of this release DBs can be broken down into two categories: the Blanco and the Diablo Blanco - defined as follows......

*BLANCO* = The Blanco is a genetically patternless gecko with normal colored albino eyes. The preferred head, body and tail color is white. Some indivduals may have yellowish color on the body, which will be removed through the next generations of selective breedings.

*DIABLO BLANCO* = The Diablo Blanco is a genetically patternless gecko with partial or complete red colored eyes. As in the Raptor morph there will be Snake-eyed Diablo Blancos, with one or more eyes being 50% solid red in color. and there will be geckos with two all red eyes, which will be called Diablo Blancos (DBs). The highest form of this morph is a solid white patternless gecko with two all red eyes. Some indivduals may have yellowish color on the body, which will be removed through the next generations of selective breedings.

The “White Devil” is the result of crossing very white *Tremper Albino "Blazing" Blizzard (BB)* females with our best *Raptor* male and breeding those double het offspring together. It is not the result of crossing a pure BB with a pure BB and accidentally getting a variant of that morph with all red eyes. No BB has ever been produced with two all red eyes. I also introduced the genes for giant into the Diablo Blanco project, so many of these DBs will have above average size. The first pure DB with two all red eyes hatched in May 2006. Diablo Blanco FAQ page.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

tonkaz0 said:


> Technically a blazing blizzard is leucistic and not an albino.


Nop a Blazing blizzard is a Talbino or Ralbino or Balbino + blizzard it's a combo morph of a T+ albino that's what all the leo albinos are and blizzard.

A Blizzard is the closes that leo's have to Leucistic but it's FAR from being Leucistic.Leucistic leo would be a singal morph not a combo morph and would never express yellow unlike blizzard that often express's yellow so it is not a Leucistic.

Blazing blizzard eyes like all albino leo eyes can range from.Black looking but are infact really dark brown.To a rich red.This range in eye color is due to leo's being T+albinos not just albinos.

Talbino pupils = Dark brown looking black to rich red.
Ralbino pupils = Dark brown looking black ALWAYS.
Balbino pupils = Dark red to rich red.

Talbino + Eclipse can be just the same somtime dark brown looking black to rich red.

Talbino + Tinted eyed(False eclipse) most often see in blizzards and snow just the same dark brown looking black to rich red.


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## marcgroovyge (Apr 3, 2008)

It cannot be called RAPTOR. The reason why the Diablo Blanco has completely red eyes is because they are eclipse where as a Blanco would just have black eyes because there is no albino gene to remove the black pigmentation. There is no tangerine or orange on Diablo Blancos


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

marcgroovyge said:


> where as a Blanco would just have black eyes because there is no albino gene to remove the black pigmentation.


Blanco is expessing Talbino *BUT* the name Blanco is a *cop out* there's no such thing as a blanco.As they are nothing more than a Talbino blazing blizzard HET Eclipse.They often have black out iris coz they often expess tinted eyes.A eye trait often seen in Blizzards.


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## marcgroovyge (Apr 3, 2008)

gazz said:


> Blanco is expessing Talbino *BUT* the name Blanco is a *cop out* there's no such thing as a blanco.As they are nothing more than a Talbino blazing blizzard HET Eclipse.They often have black out iris coz they often expess tinted eyes.A eye trait often seen in Blizzards.


Thus there is only a Diablo Blanco as a Blanco cannot really be called a Blanco if it only contains the HET for Eclipse?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

marcgroovyge said:


> Thus there is only a Diablo Blanco as a Blanco cannot really be called a Blanco if it only contains the HET for Eclipse?


Yes :2thumb:.I mean i'm not a fan of the name Diablo blanco as the leo is only a Talbino eclpse blizzard.But at least it has eclipse eyes.When you start calling HET's Trade name that just taking the pi$$.I mean would you call a Talbino HET Patternless a Superduper ??.When infact it's just a Talbino HET Patternless.


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

sorry boys been offline,

Marc, if you read back I Never said a Diablo was a raptor I said that Tremper used raptor to get the red in the eyes, do you really think if a blazing blizzard had red eyes to start with he would have gone through all that line breeding he did to develope the Diablo blanco?, 

Gazz, im soz mate be I have agree to differ on the fact that an ivory white leo is not a leucistic, back in the days when i used to breed large Boids, I think it was Bob clark in that usa breed a pure white burmese white black eyes that was classed as a leucistic and im sure that classification has never changed, a bit like royals that have pure white patches are called part leucistic,
*Leucism*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*





*Leucism* is a condition characterized by reduced pigmentation in animals. Unlike albinism, it is caused by a reduction in all types of skin pigment, not just melanin.
Leucism (also spelled Leukism) is a general term for the phenotype resulting from defects in pigment cell differentiation and/or migration from the neural crest to skin, hair or feathers during development. This results in either the entire surface (if all pigment cells fail to develop) or patches of body surface (if only a subset are defective) having a lack of cells capable of making pigment.
Since all pigment cell-types differentiate from the same multipotent precursor cell-type, leucism can cause the reduction in all types of pigment. This is in contrast to albinism, for which leucism is often mistaken. Albinism results in the reduction of melanin production only, though the melanocyte (or melanophore) is still present. Thus in species that have other pigment cell-types, for example xanthophores, albinos are not entirely white, but instead display a pale yellow colour.
More common than a complete absence of pigment cells is localized or incomplete hypopigmentation, resulting in irregular patches of white on an animal that otherwise has normal colouring and patterning. This partial leucism is known as a "pied" or "piebald" effect; and the ratio of white to normal-coloured skin can vary considerably not only between generations, but between different offspring from the same parents, and even between members of the same litter. This is notable in horses, cows, cats, dogs, the urban crow[1] and the ball python[2] but is also found in many other species.
A further difference between albinism and leucism is in eye colour. Due to the lack of melanin production in both the retinal pigmented epithelium (RPE) and iris, albinos typically have red eyes due to the underlying blood vessels showing through. In contrast, leucistic animals have normally coloured eyes. This is because the melanocytes of the RPE are not derived from the neural crest, instead an outpouching of the neural tube generates the optic cup which, in turn, forms the retina. As these cells are from an independent developmental origin, they are typically unaffected by the genetic cause of leucism.



anyway boys Im not gonna argue with you, Im just going on written facts, not what I think, no doubt you will comment some more on the subject.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

tonkaz0 said:


> Gazz, im soz mate be I have agree to differ on the fact that an ivory white leo is not a leucistic, back in the days when i used to breed large Boids, I think it was Bob clark in that usa breed a pure white burmese white black eyes that was classed as a leucistic and im sure that classification has never changed, a bit like royals that have pure white patches are called part leucistic,


But a Blizzard has the ability to expess yellow so it's not a true Leucistic.Just coz some Blizzard are clean white dosen't make them Leucistic.Blizzard is the closes leo's are to Leucistic but they are not the real deal.


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

Haha, mate your not getting my point, if its visualy pure ivory white with black eyes its a leucistic, wheather or not its got the ability to have yellow in, Im talking visualy in your face not what it could potentially be,
thats like saying a normal isnt a normal because it my be het for albino.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

tonkaz0 said:


> Haha, mate your not getting my point, if its visualy pure ivory white with black eyes its a leucistic, wheather or not its got the ability to have yellow in, Im talking visualy in your face not what it could potentially be,
> thats like saying a normal isnt a normal because it my be het for albino.


This is getting soooo deep now, but i see your point: victory:


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## marcgroovyge (Apr 3, 2008)

tonkaz0 said:


> Haha, mate your not getting my point, if its visualy pure ivory white with black eyes its a leucistic, wheather or not its got the ability to have yellow in, Im talking visualy in your face not what it could potentially be,
> thats like saying a normal isnt a normal because it my be het for albino.


Though you are wrong. Blizzards have grey eyes. Only eclipses will have black eyes. Also your not getting what Gazz is saying. Visually or not just because you mix a load of different morphs together to make it appear close to Leucistic still does not make it Leucistic.

Leucistic is completely different from Blizzard. I understand that you are saying they can look the same, but it doesnt make them the same. As Gazz also has said Blizzards have the ability to show yellow colouration. I am now adding that they have the ability to show Paradox spots too. This is not the trait of Leucistic.


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

Mate, im done now because you will not read the true written facts,
you can actually get part leucistics!, I am talking about a visually full ivory white blazing blizzard that you can get,it doesent matter if its het or able to have any coloured offspring, you seem to have tunnel vision on what you believe and thats up to you, I`ll carry on reading and following the facts,
and if you only believe that B/Bs have only grey eyes I realy do give up because Ive heard it all now, 
best we just agree to disagree, best regards.


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