# Visit from the council



## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Ok now I've got all the ranting and swearing over with in 18+ I feel calm enough to post here about this :lol2:

While we were at work today we've had a visit from the council and a card through the door re 'noise from your cockerels'.

I don't have 'cockerels' I have one dutch bantam cock who does not and never has crowed. At least five other people round me have poultry and/or ducks too. Don't know yet if they've also had a visit or if someone has made a complaint specifically about me.

I'm not at all happy that someone will presumably have been nosing about looking at the birds while I wasn't here. And I'm even more unhappy that some :censor: has made a complaint without even speaking to me first.

I do actually know whose birds make most of the noise, but that's irrelevant. It doesn't bother me and I've no intention of passing the blame on to her.

I've been here 5 years and this is the only time it's been mentioned. It's most likely that it's the woman who moved in a couple of months ago and lives 2 doors away that has complained I think. If you don't like livestock noise why would you move somewhere this rural for god's sake? It's just ridiculous.

The OH is going to phone on Monday as he doesn't trust me to be calm. He's probably right. This is private property, freehold. Has anyone been through this themselves? Surely they'd have to prove noise level and that it was actually my bird that was th culprit?

Absolutely fuming about this .... :devil:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I would feel excactly the same if it was me! I hate the fact that there doesn't seem to be a "live and let live" attitude with some people.

I read your 18+ thread lol and I think the suggestion that you go pleasantly and politely around your neighbours and ask and you'll soon find out who is the one who complained by their attitude even if they deny it.


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## Evangeline (May 23, 2010)

I have never had it happen to me as I dont keep chickens, but a friend of mine had some chickens for eggs and no cockerals, and they had a complaint that they were crowing early every morning, and they had to remove the animals. I dont know what happened to them.
But chickens dont crow. I kind of know what your going through, my friend was fuming too as she had 5 chickens, they were black and white with longish silky feathers which she called 'silkys' very pretty chicken and would love to get some too. I think people just get jealous.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve just gone through the exact same thing myself, and like you i have a couple of pekin banties who do crow a bit in the day.

( when all the chavs are baiting their rotties in the hot weather, revving bikes up the their gardens and strangling kids at high volume so you cant really hear them )
but they are shut up of a night in boxes inside a shed and are not let out till 10am.

which i though was me being reasonable as i`m living in a semi rural area, where i back onto a farm and the alotments either side are full of poultry that start crowing at 2am at high volume.

and i`m the one who gets inc#vestigated for noise nuisance?

its mental


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

oh, and they`ll set up recording equptment in her garden and measure the decibels without your knowledge or consent,
if the `noise`is above a certain level they`ll do you, if not they`ll tell her to sue you privatly.

:devil::devil::devil:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

and my hens lay eggs too loudly too apparently
w:censor:s


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## Evangeline (May 23, 2010)

They will be moulting feathers too heavily soon if your not careful!! lol


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Grrrrrrrrrrr..... I hate this kinda thing, people move to a house backing onto a park and complain the trees are too big... they move to a village and complain the church bells are rung on a sunday morning... A few years ago we had a very good olympic clay shooter and he was forced to stop praticing following complaints. If I lived next door to these kind of people I'd be chainsaw carving at 6am every morning!!!!!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

the 2 familys the other side of me have taken to mowing their lawns at 8am with petrol movers when he`s been on nights.

:no1:

the latest complaint is my garden shed is too big, i`ve been investigated for that now too.
unfortunatly theres no cheapo sheds locally on ebay i can fill the rest of my garden with to really :censor: him off. 
i`ve only got 20% covered when i`m allowed 50%

think i`ll be having the rspca round next, cant wait to show them my hard-done-by pets who i`m so evil and bad to..........


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

The 'cockerels' bit on the card makes me think the woman from the council has presumed that my orpingtons and brahmas are cockerels because of their size. 

Thing is, even if she monitored noise levels how would she prove the noise was MY birds when their are lots of others around?

And if it is who I think it is, then the house inbetween us has two quite noisy dogs, so ???


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

welcome to my :censor:-up world

waiting for my cats to meow too loudly next


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## Evangeline (May 23, 2010)

I would ring them asap and get the woman to come round and you can show her your birds (sorry not a chicken expert) and show that its not your birds making all the noise and to get there facts right before accusing people.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

they have to investigate every complaint, no matter how petty and childish.

if you`re polite and reasonable with them, it totally cabbages their heads and confuses them greatly!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I once had the council come to my house, not this one, and say to me "Do you know your dogs bark"?.
I politely replied that if they meowed the complainent would have sent the newspapers!

I recently had a council rep, this is also private, come and tell me I had loads of rabbits. I don't I have one. 
This complaint was from my next door neighbour as my giant rabbit had bitten her dog when it raided my garden!
I had to prove to him that there was only one rabbit though. Then show him her garden with 6 rabbits in it.

A policeman came one Saturday morning to inform me I had a 'huge german sheperd' and three other "big black dogs". To which I replied that I did not. He said yes I did as a man had told him I did. The sheperd had apparently bitten him the night before.
I told the policeman to tell the guy he needed glasses and showed him my rottie, my 'red' min pin, my brindle staff X and my white bulldog.

Top and bottom is they will believe the complainant if you cannot totally prove them wrong.

I've been liucky and not had anything go any further.

OH! one other thing that happened was years ago, when my younger son was only 7, a council woman came when our Buzzard was in the front garden on his creance. She said to Jack " is that a bird of prey"? he replied 'No it's a bl**dy elephant".
She never did come back.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I hate this sort of thing.What happened to live and let live.A lot of us are in built up areas and need to be tolerant.The people opposite have complained to us twice because bits of grass from our front garden blow across onto their barren bit of tarmac.They object to our 'scruffy' garden.I object to their big lump of tarmac that can support no life,animal or plant but I don't have the cheek to say anything.Some little people:whip:


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Honestly, some people have nothing better to do than complain. I think they're just truly bored and make up elaborate stories and ring the council so they have someone to talk to. 
My neighbours back onto my garden and have the smallest, most yappy dog I have ever encountered. It yaps _constantly_ whenever it's let into the garden. They've tried training and various other methods but to no avail. Thankfully they're understanding people (as am I) and we managed to speak about it and they're now waiting an hour or so in the morning before they let it out as they know that I'm still sleeping etc. All done in a civil manner without sneaking off to the council. Now I know some people aren't as fortunate and could worry about approaching someone and them not being so amiable, but I really don't see how some people want to burn neighbourly bridges and grass on people without so much as a letter through the door from them or something.
It's sad really. You never know when you'll need your neighbours and people in your area but these days it seems that people just aren't bothered by it.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

saxon said:


> OH! one other thing that happened was years ago, when my younger son was only 7, a council woman came when our Buzzard was in the front garden on his creance. She said to Jack " is that a bird of prey"? he replied 'No it's a bl**dy elephant".
> She never did come back.


:no1: for jack. pure genius. pmsl.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> :no1: for jack. pure genius. pmsl.


All my kids have a dry sense of humour. The grandkids are getting just as bad.
Lots of adults have a hard time dealing with them!: victory:


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

because i have a few dogs every dog that barks is my dog, we have a kennles around the block and apparently there my dogs, I have lost count the amount of times i have had council letters/RSPCA visits they alwasy go away happy 

I once had on of the neighbours down the street come banging on my door telling me my dogs had been barking AAALLLLLL day and night, when I had been in and I knew they hadn't, same time as he was telling me this someone's dog behind us was barking non stop, he turned and said see shut the dogs up or I will, I politely told him I am not responsible for dogs that are not mine and to f*ck off and if he ever touched my dogs I wouldnt be held responsible for my actions against him 

why do they move to rural places and expect no livestock/dogs noise at all


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I have never had an official visit but had to laugh one time when a neighbour (garage neighbour) in an old house we rented told me he was fed up with my cat leaving paw prints over his car, he had a full rant about needing a clean car for work and how it had been going on for months and he was pulling muscles reaching across the car to get all the prints off and it was ALWAYS my cat because he could see from my upstairs window....then he was calming down but still I couldn't get a word in edge ways, he started to negotiate, how he knew it was looking for a warm patch and it was a mistake he wouldn't make again a black car but couldn't I just keep it in until after he had been home a while, to let his car cool down etc.

I waited through the rant, and through the rest as I really could not have got a word in....and then told him quite calmly...I don't have a cat, I have never had a cat and in fact hate cats, so I can only help by wishing him the good luck that may lead to my cat hating dog eating the cat he is referring to


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> why do they move to rural places and expect no livestock/dogs noise at all


My husband and I regularly 'laugh' at people who move from the town into the country because they think it'll be an idyllic existence! Then expect the 'country' to change their ways to suit them because they're not used to it:lol2:

My friend's husband is a prime example. They've just moved to a house in a small country town. He takes the dog (hound) out for a walk every morning and lets him off the leash - the dog then runs off (as hounds are wont to do) out of his sight so he's no idea where he is or what he's up to, but doesn't worry because the dog comes back.

The dog was seen rounding up the sheep in a local field and someone told the farmer. Now I agree the dog probably was 'rounding up' the sheep, but often with the excitement of panicking sheep running everywhere, the hunting instinct can easily kick in and disaster can ensue.

So the farmer, who would have been well within his rights to look for the dog and shoot it if it went into his sheep fields, went to their house and told the husband that he had to control his dog otherwise he would have no choice but to shoot it.

The husband was annoyed!! My friend told him to walk in a different area where they know there are no sheep, but his answer was basically "I like that walk and I enjoy doing it, so why shouldn't I do it!".

My friend was furious (she was brought up in the country and takes the dog into woodland where she knows there are no sheep so she can let him have a good run) and he just couldn't get it. :roll:

Barry and I were both gobsmacked when he was telling us the story!


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Well believe it or not I set my alarm for dawn and slept with the window wide open to see what the problem was :lol2:

From 4.30 for about 15 minutes there was noise. I can't be certain it was from my cockerel, but as it was the most pathetic attempt at a crow I've ever heard it could well have been.

This is in MY garden, and I've never heard it before. Not loud enough to wake me up (and I'm a light sleeper) and not loud enough to stop me dozing off again either.

So I don't believe for one minute that they noise was of a level to merit a noise pollution case or whatever they call it.

But I really can't be doing with a load of hassle over this at the moment, so I'm going to attempt to block more light out of the coop. Problem is, it's so hot at this time of year that they need the ventilation, and I don't want to cook them! My first thought was his own cardboard box inside the coop, but I'm not happy that's safe without me punching so many airholes in it that he still sees all the light anyway!

Any ideas?


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Yeah, ignore them. Simple solution really


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

vonnie said:


> Any ideas?


Set some peafowl free in your area, Then one little dutch bantam cockerel will soon be forgoten about:lol2:. 

I have a dutch bantam cockerel with some hens in the bottom on my aviary. 
The noise is minimal the aviary ringneck parrots are way noiseyer, The wild crows and gulls also noiseyer.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

vonnie said:


> Any ideas?


Maybe make him an indoor cockerel at night? Make him a little indoor coop just for him? That way if he does make noise, it's at least somewhat muted to the outside world.
Sorry having not kept chickens before this may seem a very ridiculous idea from me :blush:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

not really, my two banties go into cat carriers in the summerhouse of a night,
i`m still under investigation for noise pollution for the next 3 months tho:devil:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

wonder how all these light sleepers deal with the dawn chorus,it's pretty noisy.


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## indie85 (Nov 22, 2009)

I must admit, I totally disagree with everyone, lol.

If one of my neighbours was being or causing noise of any description that was causing me grief, I would complain without a doubt.

I own my own home, so for example, when they new neighbours moved in next door and bought a dog in with them that was barking constantly, I complained.

Though to be fair, I went round there first to let them know that the dog was barking when they were out and offered to help them solve the problem. I also mentioned that other neighbours would probably complain and they'd be ordered to get rid of the dog cos they arent allowed one in private accomadation. As it happens, they got a letter next day to say there had been complaints, so I helped them rehome the dog instead.

Though to be fair regarding noise, when i moved here, I moved here knowing that there were shooting ranges nearby, and I have learnt to ignore the shooting.

But If I owned my home and someones cockrels were waking me up at 2am, I would NOT be happy at all! Though, of course, if i lived somewhere rural, I wonder how much more tolerant I would be. I'd probably learn to just shut my windows and put some headphones on! Thats what i do when the general bird wildlife wake me up that early! lol. But I'd certainly not make a complaint without discussing it with the neighbour first.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Sadly it happens and can take one person, who then gets others to complain with them. 
We had it after Foxes mating in nextdoors garden and we were blamed as we had dogs. Sadly we were also new and went through a few years of hell. They caused us endless problems and even phoned the local paper tp say we were running a farm because we had 2 silent male ducks and a pet turkey. Even tho we also had a massive corner garden 70ft, 90ft, 60ft. 
The RSPCA came and were so impressed they wanted us to take a load of rescue chickens and ducks they had, and as I pointed out that since the neighbours had already tried to Poison them with antifreeze, it wasn't wise for us to do so. They were even more impressed with my dogs and their kennels. They were always on myside. Sadly scripted reports off a bunch of sad arsed neighbours and we were made to suffer. And I mean really suffer.
You know what started it?? 

When we first moved in, old lady a few doors down asked how we had settled in, then suddenly went into a massive Racist rant. I said I was sorry but I couldn't continue that way of conversation, I had both kids with me and she was being very vile in her rant. I am not racist, and in Oldham apparently, it is required.

Where we are now, I have more dogs, now have a massive flock of chickens, with 27 cockerals. had one issue in first year but after council checks and us being all update on law and defra. We have been fine. 
My cockerals start at 5am at the moment. Not loud at all. 
But my neighbour joined to ours is a retired farmer. Other side is a Demolition guy. All neighbours get eggs.
Plus all the kids round here are at the local schools that I offer Free hatching with. So their children get to have hands on with it that the school could not afford before.

It was odd that during winter, one of the neighbours sorrowfully asked if we had got rid of the cockerals. I said no, why? She said she hadn't heard them crowing and missed it. I just explained it was winter and non sexy time. Arhhh I thought you'd got rid of them, I love hearing their different voices.
Or the kids who again, love to hear it. And the people on the allotement who when they first heard them, were asking about who had the chickens and again, how lovely it was to hear them. But they also know my son has Autism and has his own flock and why we rear our own meat chickens. I have made sure that we kept on the good side of our neighbours. Even when their 2 jack russells broke in and ran ammok killing my best birds. 

We have kept on the good side of them being also doing nice things for them.

The dogs however have not been an issue at all. Thus proving the bulls**t lies in our last home, as we have more dogs and house opp us thought we only had a couple (all ni look the same apparently lol so they didn't know we had so many) but shows how quiet they are.) and nextdoor feels more secure as he is building all his new breeding Avaries for his show birds, down the bottom near my kennels, he wasn't ever planning to have them so far, but with my dogs, he now feels safe.


Which leads to one more point. Neighbours in Oldham complaining my dogs were barking 24/7. Then complained 'why had none of your bloody dogs barked when nextdoor got broke into during the day!' 
Funny that, since as they were ALWAYS barking.

Best thing is to make sure you have plenty of good neighbours on side tho. It will help. Sadly, the fear the group weilded in oldham, ment other neighbours who supported us, would not when it came to court as she would turn on them. Which happened as nextdoor who were new, fell into their clutches, when they realised it was all lies, they stood up for us and then had constant complaints to social and police over their 5 children, who were great kids!!!


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Does the deeds to your property exclude poultry?
Reason I ask is ours does but under the revisions to the allotment act we are allowed to keep up to 12 hens. Same applies now to everyone. However we are excluded from keeping any cocks - regardless of the fact they don't make as much noise as the traffic or the planes going over :bash::lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

thats interesting, i`ve just done a quick google and had a look at the act, cant find any restriction about numbers of hens tho?

its the cocks on the alotments that i`m getting blamed for, yet it seems that the act states cocks are banned from the allotments?

so i`m not really better off..................


omg they`ve laid an egg, must go shut them up!


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Well OH was going to phone about it today. Which I'm in two minds about tbh as he's not exactly keen on the poultry anyway. But he is right that I'd have trouble being civil about it!

Last night I blocked up everything except the under-roof ventilation. Then threw one of the guinea pig fleeces over the coop so that air was getting in, but not light. And I do believe it worked! The dogs woke me up during the night, as did the cats. But not a peep from the birds. I even rushed out earlier than usual to let them out because I was worried that I hadn't heard anything :lol2:

I still don't see why I should be having to go to all this bother. There's no way they're even half the volume of the dawn chorus! But the last thing I want is for this to esclalate. And days are drawing in already so at least I'll not be doing it for 365 days a year.

The children are enjoying shouting things like 'OMG the noise. I think I've gone deaf' while out in the garden :lol2: Still wish I could find out who complained though. Do they have the right to remain anonymous?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I think they have a right to anonymity unless it ever went to court, whereby they'd be called as a witness and have to reveal their identity.


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

this is why i'm still in 2 minds as to whether to get chickens. we've been talking about it on & off for the past 4 years or so and now we've started talking about it again. thing is the alcoholic knobber that lives next door. 
he threatened to kill my cat a couple of weeks ago, but was absolutely mullered when he said it so wasn't capable even if he wanted to. and quite a while ago he put a note though our door saying shut up . and we were just watching t.v and not loud, the children were in bed. 
so you see i'm worried that even a bit of noise from them will cause issues with him next door.


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## JayC74 (Jun 28, 2010)

vonnie said:


> The children are enjoying shouting things like 'OMG the noise. I think I've gone deaf' while out in the garden :lol2: Still wish I could find out who complained though. Do they have the right to remain anonymous?


Yes. Simple reason to protect them from harassment, threats and violence. Obviously I am not saying you would but there are people out there who will. As such there has to be anonymity to encourage people to make complaints. Though I do think people who make frivolous complaints or complaints for revenge should themselves get an official warning.


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## pirez (May 3, 2009)

I cant stand intolerant people!:devil:


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

JayC74 said:


> Yes. Simple reason to protect them from harassment, threats and violence. Obviously I am not saying you would but there are people out there who will. As such there has to be anonymity to encourage people to make complaints. Though I do think people who make frivolous complaints or complaints for revenge should themselves get an official warning.


This is the problem. Although I can see the point with the anonymity here, what's to say that it isn't the person complaining that's doing the harrassing. 

That must actually be a pretty frequent occurrence. In fact my other suspects are both people we've had run-ins with accross the road.

And I have as much right to protection from petty vindictive complants as they do to complain about GENUINE noise pollution.

No answer when the OH rang the number on the card. He left a message to say we've taken action and left his number. So waiting to hear back. We're not calling again as they even have the :censor:ing cheek to charge to for the call!!!


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## JayC74 (Jun 28, 2010)

Vonnie I do agree you should be protected against petty or vindictive complaints. It is covered in my last sentence after all. 

Now why should the minority of idiots who abuse something adversely affect those who don't? Some people do really need that protection. Anonymity has to be there. 

Teshu has posted a situation where anonymity would definitely be needed. Say that he decided to make a complaint against the neighbour given what is said in the post there would likely be problems if he found out who complained.

Now back to your situation. Yes they do have to prove noise pollution and who it is doing it if it is ever taken to court. As soon as they start proceeding then and only then can you get the name of the person as the defense must have access to all the information that the prosecution has. 

As I am reading your posts so far, all that is happening at this moment is an investigation. Therefore as said get the person from the council to come round and answer their questions, explain your situation. As you believe that the complaints are vindictive, explain why and if you have witnesses that can back you up speak to them first and ask if they would be willing to, if they are give their names to the person who comes round.


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## Reaper941 (Mar 21, 2008)

I'd love to move to the country and keep chickens.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Reaper941 said:


> I'd love to move to the country and keep chickens.


I want ducks personally... find chickens a little scary.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Reaper941 said:


> I'd love to move to the country and keep chickens.


its my numpty neighbour in the country that winge around here!

i`ve been to the citizens advice, and they`ve advised me to take my complaining neighbour to court for harassment if it continues.

everyone else here is lovely tbh.


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