# betta help please



## lloyd1 (Oct 5, 2008)

ive just bought a 35 gallon fish tank called a arc 35l.really nice small tank it has a lihght a good filter built in and im puttimg just 1 betta fish in siamese fighter.Do these fish need heater as pet shop says no and also can i put other fish in with him or am i best leaving him on his own will he be more active on his own.And what decorations i was gona fill it with live plants and a bubble blower will this be ok thanks alot for ur help.1 more thing how do u know what a healthy fighter looks like as they are all crammed in little jars sum are hardley moving atalll and floating


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

lloyd1 said:


> ive just bought a 35 gallon fish tank called a arc 35l.really nice small tank it has a lihght a good filter built in and im puttimg just 1 betta fish in siamese fighter.Do these fish need heater as pet shop says no and also can i put other fish in with him or am i best leaving him on his own will he be more active on his own.And what decorations i was gona fill it with live plants and a bubble blower will this be ok thanks alot for ur help.1 more thing how do u know what a healthy fighter looks like as they are all crammed in little jars sum are hardley moving atalll and floating


Are you sure it's not a 35 litre tank rather than gallons? Bettas do better at warmer temperatures around 28C so the water needs to be heated. I can't be bothered to check the spec of that tank, but the shop may be telling you that yoou don't need a heater as it may have one built in? If not, you will need one to heat the water.

You're best keeping them on their own. Add a couple of floating plants or even Nymphae lillies to give some surface cover etc. Don't use a bubble blower (airstone) that causes too much surface disturbance in a Betta tank.

Look at the fishes eyes and gills. Avoid anything with split fins, cloudy eyes or reddening around the gills etc.


----------



## lloyd1 (Oct 5, 2008)

sorry it is litres lol i have another heater so will put it in i havnt got my betta yet looking for a realy nice 1 bide my time also im putting sand in btm of tank .what other fish can i have with him will a few neons be ok?


----------



## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

You'll be pushed really to have any tankmates with your Betta. They are very territorial and in such a small environment you would more than likely have problems and definately not neons as they will nip at your bettas fins.

Depending on the temperament of your Betta he may tolerate a snail but that's about it for that size of tank.

For decor you could get some nice silk plants and a coconut cave as they love sleeping in them. Also as said previously, some nice floating plants would look good too :2thumb:


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

I would definitely put it in a heater set to around 26C. Re: tankmates, IME Otos and Amano Shrimp are fine with Bettas. : victory:


----------



## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

I have a 30liter ufo corner unit in my kitchen, its set up with white sand and a largeish live plant places into the corner branching out across the tank to create hiding spaces, and a few rocks around the bottom for decoration and to weigh it down, 

i that i have 1 male fighter, 2 female fighter, 2 swordtails one of each, 1 male guppy a cherry barb and a small plec, my fighter is more than happy in this set up he has bright colours and eyes he eats well and is very active,

he's the best looking fish in the tank and he knows it he's an arrogant little bleeder but he isn't territorial or aggressive in any way and all fish are thriving happily in this home and have been for many months,

i don't have a heater in the tank as the light fitted into the top of the keeps the water at the idea temperature thruout the day and its is switched off at night, 

i have seen many of theses fish in community setups


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Gemificus said:


> I have a 30liter ufo corner unit in my kitchen, its set up with white sand and a largeish live plant places into the corner branching out across the tank to create hiding spaces, and a few rocks around the bottom for decoration and to weigh it down,
> 
> i that i have 1 male fighter, 2 female fighter, 2 swordtails one of each, 1 male guppy a cherry barb and a small plec, my fighter is more than happy in this set up he has bright colours and eyes he eats well and is very active,
> 
> ...


 
Thats a very interesting set up. Have you been reading "A guide to keeping fish" by G Raylod by any chance? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

no should i have?


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Gemificus said:


> I have a *30liter* ufo corner unit in my kitchen...1 male fighter, 2 female fighter, 2 swordtails one of each, 1 male guppy a cherry barb and a small plec


The tank is far too small for that many fish plus guppies and barbs are shoaling species. Everything may be ok atm but I reckon you're going to run into problems in the long run especially with the female fighters who shouldn't be kept with the male in case he kills them. :gasp:


----------



## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

its only 7 fish


----------



## lloyd1 (Oct 5, 2008)

sorry to hijack mi own thread lol but wat is a coconut cave


----------



## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

There are some pics on my webby if you scroll down to the pics.

Betta Information | Housing a Betta

It's best to sand them down first to get rid of any sharp bits as they can tear their delicate fins very easily.


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Gemificus said:


> its only 7 fish


The number of fish is only one factor, the potential size is another. For a start Swordtails grow to about 10cm and need a three foot tank. As the fish grow, they will compete with each other for food and space and will just end up being stunted which will significantly shorten their lifespan. :hmm:


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> The number of fish is only one factor, the potential size is another. For a start Swordtails grow to about 10cm and need a three foot tank. As the fish grow, they will compete with each other for food and space and will just end up being stunted which will significantly shorten their lifespan. :hmm:


 
When I were a lad back in 1902 you could actualy buy swordtails that were slightly larger than that. Decades of inbreeding has resulted in tiny fish comparitively these days. Unless you get wild caught fish. Very rare in the UK. Sorry Trillian, just realising how old I am..... 

P.S Sweetcorn, are you Andy in disguise?


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Gemificus said:


> no should i have?


It's a title best avoided.


----------



## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> P.S Sweetcorn, are you Andy in disguise?


:lol2: Noooooo I'm me.....his better half :whistling2:


----------



## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> When I were a lad back in 1902 you could actualy buy swordtails that were slightly larger than that. Decades of inbreeding has resulted in tiny fish comparitively these days. Unless you get wild caught fish. Very rare in the UK. Sorry Trillian, just realising how old I am.....
> 
> P.S Sweetcorn, are you Andy in disguise?


i worked briefly in my LFS and we had some "jumbo" swords imported from Germany - these were impressive fish; deep red colouration, both males and females nicely filled out, and on the males a full black edging to the sword

was sorely tempted but was skint at the time, never seen them again anywhere 

we tried measuring the longest male and i think it was something like 18/20cm (including tail obviously) but of course it was tricky with them in the tank

as for Sweetcorn and Andy i'm sure they're partners in crime


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Decades of inbreeding has resulted in tiny fish comparitively these days. Unless you get wild caught fish. Very rare in the UK.


My Swordtails were at least 8cm before they died. :hmm:



> Sorry Trillian, just realising how old I am...


Probably not as old as me. :whistling2:


----------



## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

my swordtails are almost 2 inches, i am aware that swordtails grow a lot bigger than this and once they are at the very least another inch in size they will be re homed in my larger tank, at the moment the fish in the tank are very small i don't over croud by keeping large fish in small tanks thats just silly


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Ive kept & bred bettas in unheated tanks for years without any problems....room temp of a central heated house was always good enough..(depends what temps yer rooms are i guess).
If you go to Old Forge Tropicals in Devizes theyve kept bettas in unheated tanks for years without any probs either, but again, bear in mind its quite warm in there !
My personal opinion is they are better off kept alone or with other peaceful (non fin nipping) fish.


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Trillian said:


> As the fish grow, they will compete with each other for food and space and will just end up being stunted which will significantly shorten their lifespan. :hmm:


Thats the first time ive heard that !!!.....if water changes are done at the correct times that cant happen !!


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> My Swordtails were at least 8cm before they died. :hmm:


Hiya, 

They grow a bit bigger than 10cm and you used to be able to ge them quite readily, so 8cm is about 50% less than the larger wild caught fish. If that makes sense? A few guys I know who keep central american cichlids often keep large green swortails in the same tanks (They don't have over population problems). UK fish businesses who import from Jeff Rapps can get hold of them sometimes.
 




Trillian said:


> Probably not as old as me. :whistling2:


I never ask a lady her age... But maybe not..... :whistling2:


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Thats the first time ive heard that !!!.....if water changes are done at the correct times that cant happen !!


I'm surprised as it's a fact that has been known for decades. Water changes help with fish growth which is why commercial breeders in the far east often do 100% water changes daily (They're situated next to local river banks in many instances). But it does happen. I'm stunned you make such a claim in all honesty! Think about ot logically, if I keep a red tailed cat in a 3' tank and do regular water changes is it gonna grow to 3'? I think not. :whistling2:


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> I'm surprised as it's a fact that has been known for decades. Water changes help with fish growth which is why commercial breeders in the far east often do 100% water changes daily (They're situated next to local river banks in many instances). But it does happen. I'm stunned you make such a claim in all honesty! Think about ot logically, if I keep a red tailed cat in a 3' tank and do regular water changes is it gonna grow to 3'? I think not. :whistling2:


Id re-read my post again if i were you !!! 
Im stating that water changes SHOULD be done at the correct intervals.....if you dont then nitrate & other toxin levels will increase & it will affect the fish's health.
I know exactly how commercial breeders breed fish, i used to import fish & Ive been on a guided tour of sunbeam aquatics in sri lanka to see exactly how its done on a large commercial scale.

I dont get your logical thinking either ?? (i presume you mean 3ft.???...3' ??) And yes...If you do your water changes the hemioliopterus WILL eventually out grow the tank !...why would you think it wouldnt ???


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Id re-read my post again if i were you !!!
> Im stating that water changes SHOULD be done at the correct intervals.....if you dont then nitrate & other toxin levels will increase & it will affect the fish's health.
> I know exactly how commercial breeders breed fish, i used to import fish & Ive been on a guided tour of sunbeam aquatics in sri lanka to see exactly how its done on a large commercial scale.???


Yes I agree with you on the toxins front. I still do import and have visited too (Different country and companies), blah, blah, yada yada etc

Why do they do 100% water changes. Just out of interest?



The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> I dont get your logical thinking either ?? (i presume you mean 3ft.???...3' ??) And yes...If you do your water changes the hemioliopterus WILL eventually out grow the tank !...why would you think it wouldnt ???


Yep indeedy. For decades 3 foot means 3' and 3 inches menas 3". And 2' 6" means 2 and a half feet. Surely you knew that? The aquatics industry has worked in feet and inches for decades. It still does.... 

You've missed my point the RTC will obviously outgrow a 3' tank as it can achieve sizes larger than that. But an RTC will die well before it gets anywhere near 3' in a 3' tank! To use your logic, it won't....


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Yes I agree with you on the toxins front. I still do import and have visited too (Different country and companies), blah, blah, yada yada etc
> 
> Why do they do 100% water changes. Just out of interest?


Hang on...now youre asking me ?? surely you already know ??!!........no need to try and bait me is there !! (even though youve already mentioned the reason why).




MJ75 said:


> Yep indeedy. For decades 3 foot means 3' and 3 inches menas 3". And 2' 6" means 2 and a half feet. Surely you knew that? The aquatics industry has worked in feet and inches for decades. It still does....


So you type/write it one way.......ive always written or typed it as 3ft..or 3ft 6" or 3ft 6in.......I know plenty of other people that refer to it that way too...Even Clearseal tanks refer to their old standard sizes as 3" x 24" x 24"...which is again different to you !...even though most suppliers now work in cms to comply with EU law (yes i know some include the sizes in inches too)......Also....theres no need for sarcasum either really is there (dont say it isnt.... im nearly 40 not 12).....i just asked a simple question which just needed a simple yes or no......i can give it back if you like, ive got plenty of experince in that too.




MJ75 said:


> You've missed my point the RTC will obviously outgrow a 3' tank as it can achieve sizes larger than that. But an RTC will die well before it gets anywhere near 3' in a 3' tank! To use your logic, it won't....


No i havent...youve miss interpreted mine....
If you look at the part of trillians post (below) i replied to ... it mentions swordtails growing to around 10cm in a 3ft tank, He says they will get stunted if kept in a 3ft tank which is not quite true, if the water changes are done at the correct intervals they have the ability grow to their full size ....if the fish grew larger than that, then youd reccomend a larger tank as they grew or right from the start !...not stuff them into a smaller one........youve now somehow changed it to keeping a 3ft rtc in a 3ft tank ??!!.....we are taking about swords growing to 10cm...not 3ft rtc's in a 3ft tank !
I really dont know where your going.... ....exactly what point are you trying to put accross ? 



Trillian said:


> As the fish grow, they will compete with each other for food and space and will just end up being stunted which will significantly shorten their lifespan.


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Hang on...now youre asking me ?? surely you already know ??!!........no need to try and bait me is there !! (even though youve already mentioned the reason why).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bear with me. I was asking why water changes help with fish growth... I stated that they do. But was asking for a reason why? What makes the difference etc.


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Bear with me. I was asking why water changes help with fish growth... I stated that they do. But was asking for a reason why? What makes the difference etc.


Ok...well yes i do know & ive already mentioned part of the reasons with nitrate levels (to name just 1 of several reason why), but for some reason im thinking you also know why and your just trying to bait me...why? i dont know!.
Im letting this thread get back on topic.........ive had enough of people just wanting to wind others up.


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Ok...well yes i do know & ive already mentioned part of the reasons with nitrate levels (to name just 1 of several reason why), but for some reason im thinking you also know why and your just trying to bait me...why? i dont know!.
> Im letting this thread get back on topic.........ive had enough of people just wanting to wind others up.


Actualy I'm not trying to bait you at all. NO3 is not the key reason. I also know there is an issue with fish hormones, The pro's perform massive water changes to reduce the hormones to increase growth. Commercial fish farmers have tried to find a "filter media" to combat this to reduce the ammount of labour intensive water changes undertaken. But have been unable to do so.

I asked as very few people know much about it. There is very little good info out there on the subject. I'd like to study this more. I wondered if you knew. Being ex trade and all. No need to be defensive.


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Actualy I'm not trying to bait you at all. NO3 is not the key reason. I also know there is an issue with fish hormones, The pro's perform massive water changes to reduce the hormones to increase growth. Commercial fish farmers have tried to find a "filter media" to combat this to reduce the ammount of labour intensive water changes undertaken. But have been unable to do so.
> 
> I asked as very few people know much about it. There is very little good info out there on the subject. I'd like to study this more. I wondered if you knew. Being ex trade and all. No need to be defensive.


Sorry but when someone gets sarcastic over a simple question ill defend myself.....Jeez...now ur putting words in my mouth !..I didnt say NO3 was the key reason....i said it was 1 of many reasons...As for the large water changes...its done to promote fast growth to increase turn around and profits...not for the well being of the fish......dont bother replying to my posts anymore, you wont be getting a reply because you struggle to understand my simple replies & misinterpret them.


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Sorry but when someone gets sarcastic over a simple question ill defend myself.....Jeez...now ur putting words in my mouth !..I didnt say NO3 was the key reason....i said it was 1 of many reasons...As for the large water changes...its done to promote fast growth to increase turn around and profits...not for the well being of the fish......dont bother replying to my posts anymore, you wont be getting a reply because you struggle to understand my simple replies & misinterpret them.


Meh, meh, meh

So you don't know either then! :lol2:

It's true, we have differing levels of communication skills.  You could just be civil, enjoy the banter. Rather than replying to a question with a few random, spurious facts to try and save face over the fact that you spout poo! Jeez, anyone would think you work for maidenhead or summat! If you ever need a job, you'll fit right in....

Hugs :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

HAHAHA...and thats commin from an overnight expert no doubt....The only crap on this page is being spouted by you......Its a nice childish attitude you have there...perhaps oneday hairs might grow & something might drop for you !!!
I enjoy banter...but not with overnight experts.......sounds like your the know it all of that shop you work in.....or the BS'er to be more exact.
Run along now.....mummys calling ! :flrt:


----------



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Meh, meh, meh
> 
> So you don't know either then! :lol2:
> 
> ...


youv been saying pretty much the same kinda thing to me on another thread. youv been caught out mate:lol2: what was that about your people skills?? your a professional ar:censor:e!!



The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> HAHAHA...and thats commin from an overnight expert no doubt....The only crap on this page is being spouted by you......Its a nice childish attitude you have there...perhaps oneday hairs might grow & something might drop for you !!!
> I enjoy banter...but not with overnight experts.......sounds like your the know it all of that shop you work in.....or the BS'er to be more exact.
> Run along now.....mummys calling ! :flrt:


dont take any notice of this guy mate. hes been doing the same thing to me all last night and today. i think he gets kicks out of it or somthing:lol2: just ignore him and let him get on with his day job, which is beleive it or not!!! he kills animals!!!! ask him thats no bull!!! and hes on here winding up animal lovers!!! needs a kickin if you ask me!!!:bash::bash:


check out the hybrid thread in the snake section. he should be banned!!!


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Thats the first time ive heard that !!!.....if water changes are done at the correct times that cant happen !!


I'm afraid not. Water changes will help to keep the water quality good and should be done on a weekly basis. But if a fish is in a tank that's too small, it shuts off its growing gene and ends up stunted. Hence why goldfish were condemned to small unfiltered bowls for many, many years and only grew to a quarter of their potential size. It's down to their hardy nature that they survived under those conditions...but other species aren't so fortunate. :hmm:



MJ75 said:


> I never ask a lady her age... But maybe not


It's in my profile. I'm not coy about things like that, it's only a number. : victory:


----------



## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

Lefty, I know MJ in real life. He has a gorgeous detached mini mansion and took me for a spin in his brand new sporty merc the other day. I wouldn't mind his day job, which has nothing to do with hunting. Thats one of his other 'things'


----------



## dan51 (Sep 26, 2008)

Lefty MJ is one of the most sound guys i have met on this forum, he has his own aquatics business as well.He really knows his stuff and gave me loads of free stuff when I got a new tank to set it up and made sure i gave my fish the best quality of care. 

Dan


----------



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

and all that says hes a nice bloke face to face, which doesnt surprise me. but it doesnt change the fact that hes a complete idiot on here. the posts are there to prove it. hes even attempting to stir things up tonight. if hes as you say he is then hes one very sad coward to talk to people like he does on here but face to face hes a gentleman to the point he will give you things to make you happy


----------



## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Trillian said:


> I'm afraid not. Water changes will help to keep the water quality good and should be done on a weekly basis. But if a fish is in a tank that's too small, it shuts off its growing gene and ends up stunted. Hence why goldfish were condemned to small unfiltered bowls for many, many years and only grew to a quarter of their potential size. It's down to their hardy nature that they survived under those conditions...but other species aren't so fortunate. :hmm:



Sorry mate ive never heard of that one....i know of pheromones that fish excrete in their urine which can stunt growth...but not a gene it can shut off....sounds weird...does it happen to all species or just some ?..if you can find any info can you chuck it up here or PM it over : victory:


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

I'm feeling the love on this thread now.... lol

Dunno why you think I work in a shop Morelia? At my age that definitely would not be my career choice. I do own a specialist aquatics business, I have staff to get on with that while I do something very different though! Besides, as you know in this day and age few people lack the nous to run a shop successfully which is why so many are closing down. Partly due to people like me who trade online for the most part. And partly because many shops are still stuck in the twentieth century. I have worked in a couple of aquatics shops, and a large importers but that was a long time ago. So that kind of demonstrates the accuracy of your last post! lol

If you're the OAP you claim to be, you'll have seen the quality of fish degrade over the last two or three decades too. You'll know how it's difficult to get some species which were once commonplace and that hybrids have replaced them on stock lists. Synodontis are a classic example of this. 

There was a thread about snake hybrids where the ethics of such animals were challenged. Little Lefty (pro hybrid) took objection to someone questioning how sensible it is for people to produce them and got himself in a terrible hissy fit about it. He's a classic "wannabee expert pet keeper". You know the type, kept animals for years, learns stuff about their husbandry, breeding, feeding but has no real understanding of biology and ecology or even environmental science. He took objection to being called a "pet keeper" as it seems to have wounded his pride. I don't know why, we're all pet keepers at the end of the day. So he challenges me to list my qualifications in an attempt to catch me out and make himself feel better about himself. 

As far as I'm aware there are no degrees in back bedroom, hybrid breeding. Not even at Sparsholt! But, I am actively involved in animal management and relevant qualifications which will have come as a surprise to him (Real wildlife not pets) and this involves the culling of deer hybrids to protect some of our native species and the environment. It takes vision and intelligence to see the whole picture, but little Lefty feels better about himself now he's told people I kill animals. I think it's some sort of defence mechanism to protect his manly ego. Lefty won't ever understand this, but culling hybrids is done out of a love of wildlife and a love to protect our environment. Hybrid deer are weak genetically, they increase the population and destroy forests, they lessen forest regeneration and so there is less habitat for much rarer species such as scotish wildcat and red squirrel etc. Oh and they end up in the human food chain to. Lefty probably doesn't know what venison is though. In fact, he probably struggles with the concept of meat coming from a real animal, as his mum does all the shopping and cooks his tea after he's had a hard days work on his X box.

I said elsewhere that pet fish development (hybrids) is probably 15ish years ahead of the reptile industry. Now fish keepers are faced with poor quality fish due to massive inbreeding and crossing. A lot of species have gone from the hobby as newbies buy the pretty hybrids without any real understanding of what they are actually buying. I was at Fish INC the other week where we compared a wild "Rapps exported" FO jaguar cichlid to a tank bred specimen. The difference in shape, colour and finnage was incredible. The captive bred jag looked crap by comparison. I can see the reptiles available going the same way as people carry on crossing whatever they can get their hands on in an attempt to produce something new that they can show off to their friends.

I read one post about increased RI in royals this year. I can't help but wonder if this is a sign of things to come?

Lefty, you never did answer my question did you? I'll post it here. I'll give you the chance to show how informed and intelligent you are when it comes to discussing hybrid animals and nature in general. Here goes...

Why do various government agencies spend huge amounts of money on scientific research to assess the damage caused by hybrid species and then spend even more money on projects to have them destroyed? if you want to be a real show off you could then produce further info on the benefits the hybrids you plan on owning and breeding will have. You can also justify these biological hate crimes against animals taking place in your (your mums) house. I'm all ears....

Best


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Sorry mate ive never heard of that one....i know of pheromones that fish excrete in their urine which can stunt growth...but not a gene it can shut off....sounds weird...does it happen to all species or just some ?..if you can find any info can you chuck it up here or PM it over : victory:


You've never heard of being able to shut genes off?
It's basic biology. 
If conditions are not right, the repressor molecule will attach itself to the operator gene so the RNA polymerase cannot bind to it which stops protein synthesis, therefore not expressing the gene - or "turning it off".

Simples.


----------



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

mj75 said:


> i'm feeling the love on this thread now.... Lol
> 
> dunno why you think i work in a shop morelia? At my age that definitely would not be my career choice. I do own a specialist aquatics business, i have staff to get on with that while i do something very different though! Besides, as you know in this day and age few people lack the nous to run a shop successfully which is why so many are closing down. Partly due to people like me who trade online for the most part. And partly because many shops are still stuck in the twentieth century. I have worked in a couple of aquatics shops, and a large importers but that was a long time ago. So that kind of demonstrates the accuracy of your last post! Lol
> 
> ...


 
the proof is there for all to see in the 2 threads. People can make there own minds up about whos being childish here. If your willing to stand by what you are saying then post the name of your company and see how fast your buisness goes down. Not going to post anything more than that. His posts speak for themselves. Plus hes not worth the typing. Bye all and sorry to the op for hijacking your thread. Just wanted people to see this loser for what he is. The post above doesnt mention anything about the arrogance or child like banter the poster has become known for in other posts. this has nothing whats so ever to do with hybrids or the debate. its about the arrogance mj75 has shown not to just me but to many members on here. most have chosen to ignore him but me as usual stood up to him which he didnt like. a couple of friends coming on and defending him isnt going to get rid of the fact that his behavour sticks and can only be discribed as spoilt childish trouble causing attenion seeking. even when asked to carry the ariment on in private he wouldnt due to him losing the ego lifting kick he gets from doing this sort of thing in public. as iv said why not post the name of the company you run if your so sure that your behavour is acceptable. i for one would be interested to know who much buisness you lose when people see you for what you really are. strange that you dont put these details in your profile. its as if you were planning to piss people off and get no come back. your a coward, or can your prove otherwise???


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Lefty hunny, you said I'm not worth the typing. Yet you come back edeit your post and addloads more info. Which company anyway? The property rental one? I doubt my tennants even know reptile forums exist! Or my aquatics company? Or the company I work for?

Why would I have dealings with the likes of you? lol

Now, go tidy your room. Your mum will be in there in a minute to collect your pants off the floor and do your washing. :2thumb:


----------



## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

i've never seen such violence in Fishy land before


----------



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Lefty hunny, you said I'm not worth the typing. Yet you come back edeit your post and addloads more info. Which company anyway? The property rental one? I doubt my tennants even know reptile forums exist! Or my aquatics company? Or the company I work for?
> 
> Why would I have dealings with the likes of you? lol
> 
> Now, go tidy your room. Your mum will be in there in a minute to collect your pants off the floor and do your washing. :2thumb:


your aquatics company will do. if you read the post right you would see it says YOUR company not the one you work for and any idiot can see it wouldnt be your tennants. come on, out in the open where we can see you! just as i thought, your a coward. i wont hold my breath for the name and address of YOUR company as that would mean you have to face the people you talk down too wouldnt it?? your a yellow back keyboard gaNGSTER:lol2: AND ALL CAN SEE IT NOW:no1:


----------



## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

lefty said:


> any idiot can see it wouldnt be your tennants.


Apparently so..... :whistling2:



lefty said:


> your aquatics company will do.


What shall I do? Post the names and last years acoounts details, so that you can slag it off on here. Wait a year and give you next years accounts so you can see how badly you've harmed our reputation? Is that what you want? Perhaps I could include daily sales totals for the two weeks after I give you the name so you can watch sales dwindle etc...

Would that be good for you? After all I set it up so I could retire when my age reaches the same number as you're IQ, so if you get your way I may have to work for a few years more. And come on, who wants to be working into their mid to late 50's??? :lol2:

Lefty hunny, you do know that customers buy on price, value, service and not the incoherent ramblings off some disgruntled weirdo who had his bottom well and truly spanked in a forum discussion and is feeling a bit sorry for himself don't you? You do know I've had pm's from several members telling me how funny they found my posts towards you don't you? Not one, but two used the term "village idiot". Honestly! Don't be mad at me for showing the world how little you know. I gave you the chance to tell us all how clever you are. Instead you just swore a lot and never answered any questions... 

Answer my question that I'm still waiting for an answer for (So are other intelligent forum members on the other thread too eh?) and I'll try not to amuse myself with you much more.......

Anyways, I'm off to plan a burm hunt........


----------



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

just as i expected yellowback. how did i get my arse spanked??? strangley enough iv had similar pms about you. isnt that strange? keep it up coward and we will see. anyone with any sense just needs to look at your posts to see you for what you are. you treat the forum like your own private play thing but havnt got the backbone to let people give it you back. you hide away. the best of all is that people say your a nice bloke face to face which again leads me to beleive thats the coward in you. any way it wont be hard to find your company my friend: victory:


----------

