# thinking of doing a rep show in the north



## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

hi im fed up with all the reptile shows being down south and in the midlands ect and there is none in the north , so im thinking of doing one in BLACKPOOL i have a venue that i can use and tables ect are all there and ready to use ,im wanting to know wot the intrest would be with people wanting to have tables and if it would be worth doing and would u come to a show in blackpool ,if u would be intrested in a table let me know ur intrest , many thanks:2thumb:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

First of all, is Doncaster not north enough for you?! :lol2:

With regards to holding a show, do you have the venue's permission and the council's permission to hold a reptile show?


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

it just to far for some people wot about all the people in scotland,manchester,liverpool,lake district ect i have permission from the venue owner (he is my dad) im looking for intrest b4 this goes ahead


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

Something to consider is you are not a society such as the IHS, BRAS, PRAS, ERAC etc. so how easy do you think it's going to be to get people to book tables?
After the ****ing around from last years Exeter show I for one would be very wary about booking tables at a show run by an individual or business and I can imagine many others having the same view.



> it just to far for some people wot about all the people in scotland,manchester,liverpool,lake district ec


Also I agree Blackpool is no further north than Doncaster it's just over to the left a bit. I met loads of people from Liverpool, Manchester & some from Scotland at Donny so I don't see your point. If people are interested they will travel.


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

I think people need to look on a map!!! Blackpools no farther north than Doncaster:bash::bash::bash:


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## jav07 (Apr 20, 2006)

unfortunatly if you look at all the shows that are run by indivduals after making some cash you will see they all fall through or are cancelled.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

well if enougth people are intrested then it will go ahead im not in it for the money in going to do it for people who are not able to get to the other shows its just a idea at the moment but if enougth people are intrested it will go ahead ,there is a lot of people in this area that keep reps and would go so its worth a try ,i will be talking to mark at the reptile rooms about this to see if he can help me and maybe even put his name to it as well ,u never know


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

Good luck with it Shep, hope something happens with it.


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## shaw378 (Mar 20, 2008)

shep make it on the 1st of november and i can come ,im organising a private daytrip from wolves on that day :lol2:


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

many thanks just wish there was more people like u with ur opinion , thanks


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

i think its a brilliant idea. im often down blackpool way, i visit the reptile room quite often, so go for it. takes me two and half hours in the car.


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## shaw378 (Mar 20, 2008)

i couldnt ask 4 a better day , blackpool , pubs and snakes


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

many thanks for the intrest people wot i need to know is who and how many people would want stalls ?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Be aware that reptile shows where reptiles are sold are of... somewhat dubious legality. The reason the IHS ones go ahead is because they're members' breeder meetings - they're run by a society, and there are specific rules about who and what can sell livestock.

Talk to your local city council and find out what you need to legally run a show at your dad's venue.


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

Blackpool is quite convenient for me. It's not further South than Doncaster, no, but much easier to get to, rather than cutting in cross country.

Before I booked tables, I would want to know exactly where it is, when it is, which society it is being run by (and if it's not being run by a society I'd want to doublecheck with you that the correct council permission has been granted), how much tables are, what facilities there will be, what size venue it is and how many tables there are space for in total. If it's not backed by a society I'd be wondering what advertising you're doing locally as well, to see if it's likely to be worth me paying for a table...


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Like everyone else, I'm going to have to put emphasis on getting permission from the council before you even bother talking to people seriously about it - my council have begrudgingly given us permission to hold our show next year, on the condition that it was being run by the local reptile society, for the local reptile society, as a breeders meeting (no commercial vendors at all). Had I been asking on behalf of myself they would have said no, it is only because I am part of the local society that it is going ahead. As a society the yearly bankroll is available to anyone to view publically if they ask, which will show exactly what every penny of membership and table money was spent on.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

why do i need to get permision from the council when it is a private venue also they is no reptil socity hear in blackpool


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

shep1979 said:


> why do i need to get permision from the council when it is a private venue also they is no reptil socity hear in blackpool


Really, worth reading up on legislation regarding reptile fairs before you go any further.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

well can u send me some info then plz about it if u know this , many thanks


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

shep1979 said:


> why do i need to get permision from the council when it is a private venue also they is no reptil socity hear in blackpool


Without it you can end up like Exeter - shut down just before the event, with everyone paid up and ready to go. The council said no, and at that stage - thousands of pounds were lost *poof*. Don't risk it!


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

shep1979 said:


> why do i need to get permision from the council when it is a private venue also they is no reptil socity hear in blackpool


 
Because the council may well take exception to random people, random trader, random other businesses selling any and all reptiles unchecked, unsupervised and behind "closed doors"

If he has a pet shop licence it covers HIM to sell from his premises ( and employees of his company obviously) but not any tom dick or harry with 20 quid for a table!

For the record i'd have a table in a heartbeat but i'm not eager to have even 25 quid of my money dissapear (like others had happen last year!) but i'd want to see evidence the council knew what was going off, where and had given direct permission. You can't advertise without someone finding out, if they don't like the sound of it they have all sorts of reasons to shut it on the day or any timebefore it goes ahead.

In no way shape or form is it legal to allow random people to sell things (especially live animals) from your business or home.

There are 5 people/groups who either had tables at doncaster or could have within a 30 minute drive of me, and a further 5-10 within an hour. If it was as simple as finding a sympathetic building owner, taking bookings and then selling reptiles there would not be the sparesity of uk shows that there is today!

Most councils will insist on it being run by (and therefore presumably governed in some way with some sort of rules, they'll ask about this too!!) a legitimate society or organisation of some sort. They will also have strict guidelines about who can sell what and who cannot sell what.

Perhaps something to suggest to your friend is starting a local reptile society (as simple as meetings unoficially organised in a shop or pub at first) drumming up local interest, enthusiam ans business/sales and taking it from there. You could also contact the IHS or other society about setting up a local branch/local branch meeting or check for your most local one that already exsists.

While it's a great idea you are probably still to close to the idea stage to even consider talking about tables and bookings etc. You must realise there are laws and other issues that apply to this kind of scenario. Get beyond that point and i'll want to know:

how much a 'table' would cost,
what facilities could be provided,
how many people the venue (assume the shops not huge?) can legaly hold and how many they'd expect to pass through the shop in a day.
What kind of animals are allowed and what aren't?
What rules and restrictions will be in place for traders? 

If this venue can only hold 100-150 people comfortably at one point then traders may think about how many people would realistically pass in front of their table.

These are all things most breeder,wholesalers,traders and businesses would think about or like/expect to know.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

it wud be awesome to start one in notts in trent arena! i live just up the road lol


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

A reptile shop/commercial business is not allowed to be running a show so your friend who owns a shop wouldn't be able to put his name to it though he could possibly help out unofficially. 

As others have stated you really need to be checking up on the laws in running a show, you WILL need council's permission for such an event. It's probably worth contacting one of the reptile clubs that have experience in doing so (or several clubs to get a better idea).


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Mason said:


> Perhaps something to suggest to your friend is starting a local reptile society (as simple as meetings unoficially organised in a shop or pub at first) drumming up local interest, enthusiam ans business/sales and taking it from there. You could also contact the IHS or other society about setting up a local branch/local branch meeting or check for your most local one that already exsists.


That's worth doing IMO and would be more likely to work in your favour when running a show.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

well with all this is they anyone that can tell me of any herb clubs that is close to blackpool that i could contact to get some halp and advice


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## littlejay (May 25, 2008)

Ok guys, 
I have a venue, I got a date..... everything is set, I hope it works out.

Venue-
Thornton sports Centre, near Blackpool, easier to get to.

Date-
Sunday 27th May 07, this is a bank holiday weekend.

This show was organised and all set to go ahead THEN the council said, you can have the show BUT no animals are to be sold/echanged, then they banned it all together.
I was totally issed off as not only do I know the guy who wanted to do it, but living here in Cumbria I get no chance to go to a show anywhere.
Littlejay


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## djjohn (Aug 18, 2007)

shep1979 said:


> many thanks for the intrest people wot i need to know is who and how many people would want stalls ?


i would probably have tables depending when it is


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## DASSIE (Jul 8, 2006)

id have a table no worries , but as mentioned earlier , all the hype over shows in blackpol in the past , have all been for nothing as none have happened .

I also agree with the fact that people will travel to shows ...i travel to houten every year !


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

littlejay said:


> Ok guys,
> I have a venue, I got a date..... everything is set, I hope it works out.
> 
> Venue-
> ...


If the council in this area have already said no to one show, I would strongly recomend looking for one in a different council area, as they will generally have the same rules for all applicants.

Doncaster really isn't that far from Blackpool and is held twice a year


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

well if i want to go to doncaster it would take 4+ hours on a train,its the same for other people who cant drive stuck to get to shows ect


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## serz (May 8, 2006)

i would come if you did one


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

shep1979 said:


> it just to far for some people wot about all the people in scotland,*manchester*,liverpool,lake district ect i have permission from the venue owner (he is my dad) im looking for intrest b4 this goes ahead


i livein manchester doncaster is not far away at all. it's so close that i went to the donny show.


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

shep1979 said:


> well if i want to go to doncaster it would take 4+ hours on a train,its the same for other people who cant drive stuck to get to shows ect


learn to drive then simple really.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

It took us 6 hours drive to get to Doncaster but we still went! Many people are willing to travel for the UK shows.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

Athravan said:


> It took us 6 hours drive to get to Doncaster but we still went! Many people are willing to travel for the UK shows.


you must have set off at 3 in the morning!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

luke123 said:


> you must have set off at 3 in the morning!


We actually had to set off the night before and stayed in a hotel so we could be there on time... and as I have 2 dogs, my 2 dogs had to come with us :lol2:


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## byglady (Jun 9, 2007)

We would be interested in tables if an event was to happen. We travel up the night before, too stressing leaving super early and then doing the show, its all part and parcel of going to the shows.

Also get to meet some real nice people, the name badges definately helped put names to faces (or posts) though.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

im not allowed to drive ok !!! so thats y i dont drive


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## sallyconyers (Mar 21, 2008)

For people in the west getting to Blackpool is much easier - crossing country is a nightmare. Good idea, hopefully you get people who are interested.


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## amylovesreptiles (Apr 22, 2009)

If you could do one in Blackpool that would be great, 
count me in if it happens lol 
good luck shep


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

shep1979 said:


> well if enougth people are intrested then it will go ahead im not in it for the money in going to do it for people who are not able to get to the other shows its just a idea at the moment but if enougth people are intrested it will go ahead ,there is a lot of people in this area that keep reps and would go so its worth a try ,i will be talking to mark at the reptile rooms about this to see if he can help me and maybe even put his name to it as well ,u never know


 
might be worth a bash if you could organise it well.. or start a reptile group first... and join IHS...

then do it through that maybe ???


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## Mendipmonsters (Apr 23, 2009)

Some info that may help anyone who wants to organise a show. Firstly you have to get the councils go ahead FIRST, otherwise you are wasting everyones time,including your own. The main issues with dealing with councils seems to be that rep shows don't really fall into any particular box,so they are uncomfortable with them. Having a shop owner on the organising commitee/club is usefull as they already have contact with the council officials through their own buisness and should have knowledge of some if not all of the relavent legisltion. The council will require amongst other things, risk assesments covering health and safety,animal welfare,child protection,bio security,prevention of crime,public nuisance,DWA contingencies(in case some muppet turns up with hot stuff) as well as a firm set of rules for the show-All of this needs to be put together by a suitably qualified person. You will also need to get the support of the local police as the council WILL check they are happy for the show to go ahead. All of this information needs to be prepared as a portfolio and sent together with details of your plans to the council for them to look at. There are various bits of legislation that can be used by the council to assess your plans. It is well worth searching out this info and sending details of it with your application to the council,even the bits that don't help you.The DEFRA website is useful in this respect and there are a number of relavent documents from House Of Commons select commitee's. Most reptile shows are classed as pet fairs as far as law is concearned. The law appears to be fairly straight forward as far as private breeders are concearned as they are entitled to sell excess stock,but it appears to be very gray as far as traders. In my view any proffit from a show should always go to a local charity,not into organisers pockets.
So do your homework. Prepare all the info,warts and all and send it all to the council with your plans. Although it is probably easier through the IHS ect,there is no reason smaller clubs should not organise shows,although I think you would have to be mad to try and organise one as an individul as the work load is horrendous. All of the bigger organisations are really helpfull,so it is worth talking to them. The easy bit is getting a venue,tables ect. The hard bit is the council. I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of doing a show. If anyone has any specific questions please pm me. A note to those who seem unsupportive of those wanting to do shows. As a hobby we need to be united. So in my opinion it is better to guide those wanting to organise them,so it is done right. Rather than they are done badly and ammunition is given to those who would stop reptile keeping/breeding totally. Shows are an important aspect of the reptile community and an excellant way of informing the public of what we do.


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## gemma1983 (May 2, 2009)

That is a great idea Shep

Everything i seem to be into holds the shows/events etc down south and i can never get there i'm in cleveland so blackpool is so mucg easier, i will defo be coming if you do it so please keep me informed :2thumb:


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Mendipmonsters said:


> Some info that may help anyone who wants to organise a show. Firstly you have to get the councils go ahead FIRST, otherwise you are wasting everyones time,including your own. The main issues with dealing with councils seems to be that rep shows don't really fall into any particular box,so they are uncomfortable with them. Having a shop owner on the organising commitee/club is usefull as they already have contact with the council officials through their own buisness and should have knowledge of some if not all of the relavent legisltion. The council will require amongst other things, risk assesments covering health and safety,animal welfare,child protection,bio security,prevention of crime,public nuisance,DWA contingencies(in case some muppet turns up with hot stuff) as well as a firm set of rules for the show-All of this needs to be put together by a suitably qualified person. You will also need to get the support of the local police as the council WILL check they are happy for the show to go ahead. All of this information needs to be prepared as a portfolio and sent together with details of your plans to the council for them to look at. There are various bits of legislation that can be used by the council to assess your plans. It is well worth searching out this info and sending details of it with your application to the council,even the bits that don't help you.The DEFRA website is useful in this respect and there are a number of relavent documents from House Of Commons select commitee's. Most reptile shows are classed as pet fairs as far as law is concearned. The law appears to be fairly straight forward as far as private breeders are concearned as they are entitled to sell excess stock,but it appears to be very gray as far as traders. In my view any proffit from a show should always go to a local charity,not into organisers pockets.
> So do your homework. Prepare all the info,warts and all and send it all to the council with your plans. Although it is probably easier through the IHS ect,there is no reason smaller clubs should not organise shows,although I think you would have to be mad to try and organise one as an individul as the work load is horrendous. All of the bigger organisations are really helpfull,so it is worth talking to them. The easy bit is getting a venue,tables ect. The hard bit is the council. I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of doing a show. If anyone has any specific questions please pm me. A note to those who seem unsupportive of those wanting to do shows. As a hobby we need to be united. So in my opinion it is better to guide those wanting to organise them,so it is done right. Rather than they are done badly and ammunition is given to those who would stop reptile keeping/breeding totally. Shows are an important aspect of the reptile community and an excellant way of informing the public of what we do.


Some of your points are excellent but you'll actually find that its all down to your local council. Contact them to get an idea of how involved its going to be, they may not be interested in some of the things mentioned above.

In regards to traders at reptile shows - it is against the law, it is against the law to have a pet shop license and sell livestock at a show. DEFRA are dragging their feet but if you speak to them you'll find out a 2004 case of a parrot show in Staffordshire resulted in them changing their opinion on traders at expos/shows, they're currently updating their rules.

All the best and feel free to contact me.


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## Mendipmonsters (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for your comments Zac. I was commenting from our own experiance dealing with the local council for the Mid Somerset Show. All of the assesments we did were required by the council in this case. They had no prior experiance of this type of show,so have no precident to work from. We worked with the council and police to come up with an acceptable accountability format.Some may be fairly irrelavent for this type of event,but we have to keep them happy. You are correct in that traders require a Pet Shop Licence under the Pet Shop Licensing Act 1952, which is specific to the address that they trade from. The grey area on this comes in that in the past some events have been authorised for trade livestock sales,although this is illegal, by some local authorities. I wonder weather one of the larger bodies such as the IHS should publish a standard show format to be used by all clubs that is agreed with DEFRA and local authorities. At the end of the day the import point is that the highest standards of animal welfare are maintained at all shows,the public are safe and the hobby is promoted in the best light.


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## kymotors (Nov 12, 2006)

dont understand the problem getting to donnie from west side of uk its easy
m55/m6/m61/ m62/ m1 or a1
its a 2 hour drive 
if you dont drive get a mate or family member to take you 
saying this it would be nice if you could get permission for a show the more shows we have the better (for the hobby)
plus it would make a good day out (love blackpool used to live there lol) :2thumb:


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## amylovesreptiles (Apr 22, 2009)

No joke, it would be great to have a show in blackpool for once, im going to the kent one on 30th August and im kind of gutted that there isnt one closer, oh well, its a reptile show either way, but good luck, i really hope your able to organise one with the councils permission and stuff


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

amylovesreptiles said:


> No joke, it would be great to have a show in blackpool for once, im going to the kent one on 30th August and im kind of gutted that there isnt one closer, oh well, its a reptile show either way, but good luck, i really hope your able to organise one with the councils permission and stuff


Kidderminsters closer than Kent by about 3 hours haha. Come to ours at beginning on August


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

kymotors said:


> dont understand the problem getting to donnie from west side of uk its easy
> m55/m6/m61/ m62/ m1 or a1
> its a 2 hour drive
> if you dont drive get a mate or family member to take you
> ...


More shows are great yes but there is a limit surely. Theres only a finite amount of breeders and if theres too many shows they're going to be spread thing, equally lots of shows but with less breeders. I think 5/6 well placed shows across the UK would be more efficient than 20 small ones. Yeh its great to have it on your doorstep but if its naff its a bit of a l;et down. Id rather travel 2 hours and know i was going to a quality show.


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## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

i'd go, its closer than doncaster!


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## Footie (Jul 23, 2009)

I would go, I live near Liverpool, but Blackpool and Doncaster travelling time is much of a muchness. I know we have a reptile group on the Wirral, called Wirral Herp Society, maybe contact them for info on how to start a show. I agree with your point on travelling, some people can't, and yes there should be more shows "up north". Maybe its the north south divide :lol2:


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## Straight-Up (Jul 18, 2009)

If it was at the end of the year I'd probably go


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## C.Bruno (Oct 8, 2008)

do it.....i am in the lake distrct and doncaster is 140:gasp: miles from me whether blackpool is 100: victory:


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## Smurfinator (Aug 13, 2009)

I am in Liverpool and i would happily travel 50miles to blackpool for a reptile show, but i wouldn't travel an extra 50miles to Doncaster.


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## ashbosh (Jun 23, 2007)

Smurfinator said:


> I am in Liverpool and i would happily travel 50miles to blackpool for a reptile show, but i wouldn't travel an extra 50miles to Doncaster.


your missing out mate!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

There was one planned for Blackpool a while back, 2007 i think, and the council stopped it. *Although seeing as this thread is 14 months old* i'm guessing this one never happened.


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## MRS MURPH (Mar 26, 2009)

I'ld be well up for a reptile show in blackpool


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Old thread lol.


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