# beadie set up help!



## madsmum (Jan 24, 2009)

hi just got a beadie set up and now im wondering if i have put it together right. should the heat mat be under the bulb or on other end? only the temps are getting really high and my thermostats arent being deliverd for a few days as i got a faulty one!


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

madsmum said:


> hi just got a beadie set up and now im wondering if i have put it together right. should the heat mat be under the bulb or on other end? only the temps are getting really high and my thermostats arent being deliverd for a few days as i got a faulty one!


Hi mate,

Bin the heat mat.: victory:

Here's my setup advice, ignore the bits that aren't relevant.


I had my viv up and running for about a month before I got my chap, so you should give yourself time to let the viv settle in. You want a 4x2x2 viv, You will need a spot light for heat, The trick here is to get the lowest watt bulb that will get the temps you want with the dimmer stat on or near it’s max setting, this will keep the bulb bright and stop the stat from kicking in, the reason for this is beardies are sun worshipers, they like it bright, do not be tempted to use, ceramic, moonlight, or red/infra red bulbs. You want to place the spot light holder dead centre of the ceiling and a quarter of the way along, what you are looking to do is create a basking area of around 115f at one end, this should give you a temp. Of around 80f at the other end.

You shouldn't need any heat at night as long as the temp. Doesn’t drop below 60f for any length of time. If the temps do drop below that in your home then you might think of putting in another ceramic holder with a ceramic heater in at the cool end to come on at night, if you do this you will need a second stat, or if you think this might be needed in the future you could get a day/night dimmer stat now, they're about a tenner more than a normal stat.

Ok, if you're still awake we'll continue, place the probe for the stat about a quarter way along the viv from the cool end, against the back wall, and about an inch off the substrate, if you are having night heat as well on a day/night stat then this will do for both heat sources, if you are going to use a second stat, (for the ceramic on it's own, use a pulse stat), then run the probe along side the other one.
Place a digital thermometer in the basking spot, (use the probe as the temp will heat the L.E.D too much and it will become unreadable), turn on your spot, (should be on a timer to come on for 11~12 hours a day), and adjust the dial on the stat until you get your temps right. Tip here is to set the stat to its max and leave it all day, if it can't get hot enough then put a bigger bulb in, but not so big as to have the dimmer stat permanently dimming the bulb. If it gets too hot turn down the dial 1/8 of a turn, and then leave it until the same time the next day. Keep adjusting until its holding around 115f; this might take a few days of playing around.


Now the UV. If you can, get the Reptisun 10.0%; otherwise go for the Arcadia 12%. You will need a 36" tube with the necessary starter, also fit a reflector as this doubles the UV output. Place The tube dead centre about 2/3 the way up off the floor on the back wall, place wood, rocks, anything he can climb on to get to within a couple of inches of the tube, don't worry if he can touch it, it won't harm him. I have wood placed in the middle and the hot end of the viv, this gives him the choice of where he can get his UV, and I think this is over looked by a lot of people.


Have a small water bowl in the cool end to keep humidity down.






























Here's my view on substates.


The $64,000 question...Again. At the end of the day it's your choice, as far as I know there is no scientific paper to suggest, tile, paper and lino are any better than, sand, wood, carpet. etc.

Or is there...?

As for me I use sand. The benefits are, good stability, kinder on feet and joints up to the shoulders and lets them dig. The only problem is, it needs changing about every 6 months to keep it fresh, some will say impaction is a problem but I can't see it, if we're talking about fit, healthy dragons, kept properly without constipated guts already, to be honest I don't think they are that clumsy, after all they've been living in arid conditions for 25,000,000 years, I think they might have adapted to their surroundings by now.

As for the rest, I think you can get too tied down with the whole impaction thing, and go overboard, I believe that all, and I mean all, other substrates can do more harm than good, if a beardie can get impaction from sand, then he can get it from woodchip and paper too (at least two topics recently on the subject), and both these have other problems too imo.

So that leaves hard surfaces, lino, tiles. Problems are; slippery, can't dig, bad body posture, long claws, so bad foot and toe posture. For rough surfaces miss out the long claws and slippery. Imo of course. 

Now this could lead to joint and bone problems later in life, any vets here?

To be honest it's a mine field, tread carefully.

If you can, post a pic of your setup. : victory:


Jay


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## life-thru-a-lens (Mar 16, 2009)

Good to see someone who shares my view on sand!


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## Kirstx (Nov 26, 2008)

Good post, although i'm a little confused about where you have your thermostat probe. Surely it should be at the end where your basking spot is? Forgive me if i'm talking utter nonsense, but its seems a little oodd that its down the cool end??!!

Now i'm thinkin mayb i have mine set up incorrectly!!


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## sazzle (Jun 3, 2008)

i keep mine in the cool end to keep the temps right but i also have a stat for the hot end as well so have a probe there too


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

Kirstx said:


> Good post, although i'm a little confused about where you have your thermostat probe. Surely it should be at the end where your basking spot is? Forgive me if i'm talking utter nonsense, but its seems a little oodd that its down the cool end??!!
> 
> Now i'm thinkin mayb i have mine set up incorrectly!!


I'd always recommend putting the probe in the cool end of the cage...

Beardies are a bit dim in general life, but when it comes to controlling their temperature, they're pretty good; if the hot end is too hot (because the probe is in the cool end), they won't go there so much, and will bask on the periphery of the basking area. They'll still get up to the temperature they need to, and will still have somewhere to cool off if they want. A beardie won't sit in the hot end and cook itself, it will look to move to the cool end.

However, if the probe is in the hot end, then on a hot day there is nothing to stop the cool end from getting to the same temperature as the hot end. In this case, if the beardie wanted to cool off it wouldn't be able to. If it stays at too high a temperature for too long, it can cause neurological damage, amongst other things.

Worst case scenario with the probe in the cool end is that the beardie won't go right under the bulb, but will still be able to thermoregulate and will do just fine. Worst case scenario with the probe in the hot end is a dead beardie...

I've explained it in a bit more detail here if you're interested:

Hades Dragons UK - Thermostats


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

Kirstx said:


> Good post, although i'm a little confused about where you have your thermostat probe. Surely it should be at the end where your basking spot is? Forgive me if i'm talking utter nonsense, but its seems a little oodd that its down the cool end??!!
> 
> Now i'm thinkin mayb i have mine set up incorrectly!!


Glad you liked the post :2thumb:




HadesDragons said:


> I'd always recommend putting the probe in the cool end of the cage...
> 
> Beardies are a bit dim in general life, but when it comes to controlling their temperature, they're pretty good; if the hot end is too hot (because the probe is in the cool end), they won't go there so much, and will bask on the periphery of the basking area. They'll still get up to the temperature they need to, and will still have somewhere to cool off if they want. A beardie won't sit in the hot end and cook itself, it will look to move to the cool end.
> 
> ...


As for the probe thing, I'll let Andy answer this for me. :whistling2:


Jay


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

life-thru-a-lens said:


> Good to see someone who shares my view on sand!


Remember, sand is for life, not just for christmas. : victory:



Jay


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## Kirstx (Nov 26, 2008)

Thank you for your excellent explanation. 

So basically i plug my basking light into the dimming thermostat, then set the therm at 80-85 and put the probe at the cool end, then measure temp at hot end and poss change bulb wattage to get temp correct??! :blush:


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

Kirstx said:


> Thank you for your excellent explanation.
> 
> So basically i plug my basking light into the dimming thermostat, then set the therm at 80-85 and put the probe at the cool end, then measure temp at hot end and poss change bulb wattage to get temp correct??! :blush:


Sort of, ignore the temp markings on the stat, What you want to do is fit a bulb that will give you a max temp under the basking spot of 115f measured with a digital thermometer probe, have the stat set to dimm the light if the temps rise to 120f, if the bulb you have fitted gets to 120f and the stat kicks in, then use a lower wattage bulb. The idea here is to keep the viv as bright as poss, so the stat should be regarded as a safety cut out only.

Hope this helps.


Jay


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

Kirstx said:


> So basically i plug my basking light into the dimming thermostat, then set the therm at 80-85 and put the probe at the cool end, then measure temp at hot end and poss change bulb wattage to get temp correct??! :blush:


That's pretty much it!

I usually set everything up, plug the bulb into the stat with the probe in the cool end, and set the stat to somewhere in the region of 80-85f; this depends on the beardie and the temperature it prefers to be at, but 80f is a good "all round" temperature for the cool end. As Jay said, don't trust the markings on the stat, check for yourself that the cool end is getting up to what it should be at.

Give it a couple of hours to stabilise (preferably set it up in the morning so you can take the temperatures around lunctime / early afternoon), then check the cool end temperature. Assuming the cool end temperature is right and the bulb is still pretty bright, you've got the right amount of heat going into the cage to give you a nice gradient.

Now all you've got to do is sort out the basking spot. Because you have a "set" amount of heat to play with (the amount of heat that gives you the right cool end temperature), you will need to adjust the distance between the bulb and the basking surface. This will alter the _intensity_ of the light under the basking spot, which makes it hotter or cooler. If the basking temperature is too cool, either lower the light (if it's suspended), or use a slightly taller rock to bask on (if the light fitting is fixed) - as a very rough rule of thumb for beardie basking spots, decreasing the distance by an inch will increase the temperature by about 5f; if the basking spot gets to 95f, try making it 3" higher, check it in an hour or so and hopefully it will be around 110f, which is fine for a beardie. Likewise if it gets too hot, use a slightly lower basking rock. 

To give you an idea, in an 18" tall cage the bulb takes up around 4-5", the basking rock another 4", so the distance that I use is in the region of 9-10" between the bulb face and the basking rock. This will vary depending on the wattage of light, your room temperature, how bright the bulb is etc.

Best of luck with it, sorry if that was slightly long winded! : victory:


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## Kirstx (Nov 26, 2008)

HadesDragons said:


> That's pretty much it!
> 
> I usually set everything up, plug the bulb into the stat with the probe in the cool end, and set the stat to somewhere in the region of 80-85f; this depends on the beardie and the temperature it prefers to be at, but 80f is a good "all round" temperature for the cool end. As Jay said, don't trust the markings on the stat, check for yourself that the cool end is getting up to what it should be at.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice/explanation thanks x :2thumb:


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## fleshwires (Mar 4, 2009)

just a quick question related tot he previous ones...
when you say probe do you mean the thermostat censor?

does it have to be in the cool side ? why is that? i had mine until now in the warm side...cause i thought it did not matter (i didn't know up until now) but it seemed to be well...the temperature seemed to be ok the beardie was ok opening his mouth etc...well everything is still going well..

Pls get back to me, if it matters i should move it...although i was told that the censor shouldn't be too far from the basking side?

Thanks


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

fleshwires said:


> just a quick question related tot he previous ones...
> when you say probe do you mean the thermostat censor?
> 
> does it have to be in the cool side ? why is that? i had mine until now in the warm side...cause i thought it did not matter (i didn't know up until now) but it seemed to be well...the temperature seemed to be ok the beardie was ok opening his mouth etc...well everything is still going well..
> ...


Hi mate, if you go back to the second pic in my post, you will see two wires coming down from the top, the one to the right is the probe for the dimmer stat, you want it in this location, and 1 1/2 inches off the floor. The reason is, bds live mostly on the floor, so you have to control the temps from the floor, and the probe in the cool end will allow the temp under the basking spot to exceed the marked 92f that is the max setting for the stat, plus because it takes longer for the temps to fluctuate at this end, it stops the stat kicking in all the time, but as I have said already, you don't want the stat kicking in at all if you can help it. :2thumb: 

By the way, what are your temps?


Jay


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## fleshwires (Mar 4, 2009)

hey mate,

basking spot 102 approx right now and cool end around 83ish..i will in the next cpl of weeks buy a digital thermometer too..

is that allright? he/she seems healthy eating well and opening her mouth when under the hot/basking spot...from what ive read its ok when they have their mouth open supposedly because the temps are right...

is that how it should be or should i worry if he/she opens her mouth?

Thanks


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

fleshwires said:


> hey mate,
> 
> basking spot 102 approx right now and cool end around 83ish..i will in the next cpl of weeks buy a digital thermometer too..
> 
> ...


Yup, the mouth opening is fine, I would try to get another 10f under the basking area, but 102f isn't the end f the world. :2thumb:


Jay


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## fleshwires (Mar 4, 2009)

i think i can get another 10f but if i do that wont the temp at the cool end rise too?


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

fleshwires said:


> i think i can get another 10f but if i do that wont the temp at the cool end rise too?


If you leave the bulb the same and the stat the same but either lower the bulb an inch or two, or use a slightly taller basking rock you'll be able to increase the temperature of the basking spot without affecting temperatures in the rest of the cage : victory:


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

HadesDragons said:


> If you leave the bulb the same and the stat the same but either lower the bulb an inch or two, or use a slightly taller basking rock you'll be able to increase the temperature of the basking spot without affecting temperatures in the rest of the cage : victory:


This is one option you can use, but to be honest, I think it's a little impractical to implement in the standed 18" high viv, I'm sure you, like most, have a fixed light fitting, so moving this will be tricky, moving the basking rock/log closer, can bring your beardie very close to your "hot" spot light, I have found no problem with the cool end getting out of control, by increasing the stat temp, or increasing the size of the bulb.

I find that a 10f increas in the basking spot area, will only mean a 1~2f increase in the cool end.

Jay


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## fleshwires (Mar 4, 2009)

hades, jay,

thanks for the reply guys,

i think he is allright with the current temperatures, ive moved the censor in the middle of the viv and the temps are ok, he seems fine, opens his mouth etc...

when i moved it in the cool end i found the temperatures rising more in both ends i dont know why....so i moved it back to where it was since i dont want him to be be getting more heat than he needs, btw whats the consequences in case of overheating?

other than dehydration i mean..

Thanks


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## ajay2502 (Jan 29, 2009)

death:devil:


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

HadesDragons said:


> I'd always recommend putting the probe in the cool end of the cage...
> 
> Beardies are a bit dim in general life, but when it comes to controlling their temperature, they're pretty good; if the hot end is too hot (because the probe is in the cool end), they won't go there so much, and will bask on the periphery of the basking area. They'll still get up to the temperature they need to, and will still have somewhere to cool off if they want. A beardie won't sit in the hot end and cook itself, it will look to move to the cool end.
> 
> ...


Andy, mentions one of the problems here.


Jay


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

ajay2502 said:


> death:devil:


This also :lol2:


Jay


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## fleshwires (Mar 4, 2009)

well, instead of overheating him/her id rather have him with 5-10f less than the optimum, and pls dont tell em there is consequences for that too? i hope not!!!!!:whip:

seriously now are there?>


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

fleshwires said:


> well, instead of overheating him/her id rather have him with 5-10f less than the optimum, and pls dont tell em there is consequences for that too? i hope not!!!!!:whip:
> 
> seriously now are there?>


:lol2: of course there are, keeping reps. wouldn't be so much fun if there wasn't dire consequences at ether end of optimum.:bash:

Lizards like beardies need the heat to speed up there metabolism, if you don't keep them hot enough after they have eaten then the food does not get digested properly. This can cause constipation, or food poisoning, or both.:2thumb:

The min. I would keep the basking spot is 100f, the max would be 120f, so a good middle ground is 110f. at the mo. mine is 114f, this is with the bulb running flat out, the stat wont kick in untill about 120f, this wont happen untill the temps outside warm up a bit,then I will drop to a 60watt bulb.


Jay


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

fleshwires said:


> well, instead of overheating him/her id rather have him with 5-10f less than the optimum, and pls dont tell em there is consequences for that too? i hope not!!!!!:whip:
> 
> seriously now are there?>


There are potential problems, but as long as the temperature is close it should be fine.

Captive beardies generally try to maintain a body temperature in the region of 93-96f; obviously the hotter the warm end is, the faster they can get up to temperature so the more efficiently they can thermoregulate, but having a basking spot of 100f should still allow him to get to temperature. He might have to spend a bit more of his time basking though, so may appear less active : victory:


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