# perspex tanks



## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

As above after buying a few perspex tanks I relised I could easy do it so bought some perspex and tried with the help of my mate who wrks with perspex we made about ten today simple they come out realy well very similar to others from other sellers out there do I decided I'm gonna make a few to sell on IL get pics up other the weekend but I can offer 8x4x4s posted for £12 or £9 collected either aboreal or terrestrial or 12x8x8 either aboreal or terrestrial for 24 quid collected 28 posted these realy are made perfectly as I'm a stone mason/ tier I have all the necessary tools and no how to make these well I'm gonna look in to other suitable sizes and try make nice sling housing IL get pics up other the weekend watch this space


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

You got any photos?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

selina20 said:


> You got any photos?


Pm ur email address I can upload as my laptops broke but can email


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

want to email to me and i will host them for you?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Don't worry IL get em up over the weekend there only rushed pics and I gotta make more


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

ok mate offers there


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## Pincer (Dec 2, 2010)

What thickness perspex you using don't do them to thin the sag like a spaniels ear after time.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeh I no I use 5 mm for the smaller stuff 6 for larger most other company's use 4mm


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## Moonstone (Nov 16, 2010)

Jay, I just got myself a lovely versi color, can you make me a 4x4x12? Price? Or maybe a deal on one of Dred's OBT's? :2thumb:


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Im deffo interested, can you give us pics asap?


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

Hi Jay

what solvent cement are you going to use?
I use this stuff: 








But now and again it sometimes comes undone and I have to re apply:bash:
Do you know of any, or could one of your work colleagues recommend a good industrial make that's best?

Cheers mate, good luck with tanks, can't wait to see em!
R


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## Jiminy (Feb 27, 2010)

Richard77 said:


> Do you know of any, or could one of your work colleagues recommend a good industrial make that's best?


Richard have a look at this stuff...might work out for ya :2thumb:

Everbuild Aqua Mate Aquarium Silicone Sealant Trans 300ml - Sealants - Fixings Fasteners Power Tools Hand Tools Abrasives Sealants at Qwikfast.co.uk


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## ZZfan (Feb 22, 2010)

I use dichloromethane too but have also experienced the acrylic coming undone. I think the problem is worse if using laser-cut acrylic. I have used saw-cut a few times and smoothed the edges with blade and fine sandpaper and have not had a problem. There are some branded solvents that I have yet to try - e.g. Tensol 12 - has anyone had experience of using this?


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## gareth77 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Oh cool let me know when available*

Hi when you are up and running could do with a few to house my juv psalmopeus and pokies in. Let me know when available looking forward to seeing pics!. Gareth.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

The perspex/acrylic type enclosures seem to be proving popular at the moment, although I do like the look of them, I will always prefer the glass ones as it doesn't warp or scratch as easily as plastic.
-P


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

Nice one, It's quite cheap to, I'll check it out:2thumb:


Jiminy said:


> Richard have a look at this stuff...might work out for ya :2thumb:
> 
> Everbuild Aqua Mate Aquarium Silicone Sealant Trans 300ml - Sealants - Fixings Fasteners Power Tools Hand Tools Abrasives Sealants at Qwikfast.co.uk


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

Tensol 12 sounds like the stuff I'm really after, might give this a whirl building my next acrylic tank, When I do I'll let you know how I got on!

Cheers for that!



ZZfan said:


> I use dichloromethane too but have also experienced the acrylic coming undone. I think the problem is worse if using laser-cut acrylic. I have used saw-cut a few times and smoothed the edges with blade and fine sandpaper and have not had a problem. There are some branded solvents that I have yet to try - e.g. Tensol 12 - has anyone had experience of using this?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Richard I use methylene chloride its what they recommend in the perspex factory


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## Paul_MTS (Mar 23, 2008)

I haven't looked into building acrylic tanks for a long time but when I came close to doing it for a fish tank I was going to ship over Weld-On products from the US as thats what all the acrylic fans use over there.

I prefer working with glass though.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Hi Jay looked at the photos and the thing thats bugging me is the ventilation. Would be nice if a mesh panel was incorporated into the design.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Hi Jay looked at the photos and the thing thats bugging me is the ventilation. Would be nice if a mesh panel was incorporated into the design.


I have order mesh circle panels for the larger tanks the smaller ones have the same amount if holes as other perspex tanks 38 holes as there small I assuming this is suffice u can drill more if needed IL get u over spme more live when I get a chance I've teamed a couple of things


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

ill get some proper pics up tomorow hopefully when i place a proper adverts with a few finished examples but heres a almost finished 8x4x4 terrestrial just needs drilling so u get a idea


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

I like the design you have there Jay.
-P


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Cheers mate


Paul c 1 said:


> I like the design you have there Jay.
> -P


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## robowen (Aug 14, 2010)

would deffo be interested in some of these!


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Any arborial ones yet?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

chalky76 said:


> Any arborial ones yet?



I've got loads of terrestrial finished IL uploaded proper pics tomorow as my laptops broke I'm on my fone but only 1 aboreal done unfortanatly the bottle I glue them with keeps being tempramentle and leaking when I'm joining the bottom so I've had to order a special one from America so I'm hoping to get some done on the weekend


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Anybody fancy being kind enough to upload a couple of pics to this thread for me if so send me ur email address IL send u a couple of pics


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

will pm you now


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

On behalf of Jay


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## geckodelta (Dec 11, 2008)

wow im really liking those would almost deffo be interested in a couple... they look very sturdy : victory:


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## bigdazz (Mar 3, 2005)

happy days cant wait to get mine


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

geckodelta said:


> wow im really liking those would almost deffo be interested in a couple... they look very sturdy : victory:


They are make I tested 1 earlier tryed to rip one apart defanatly not do able


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## geckodelta (Dec 11, 2008)

good  what sizes can you make would one about 2 by 1.5 ft be do able ??


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## goliathmark (Nov 18, 2005)

Jay they are spot on mate will be on touch soon


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

goliathmark said:


> Jay they are spot on mate will be on touch soon


Cheers I got some aboreals finished now but i wont be able to upload pics till tomorow


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## Khanidge (Jul 25, 2008)

Jay they look very professional, sturdy and all round good quality. 
I have just one question though, could you fit feet to the bottom of each? this would not only give a slight air gap to the bottom which would be beneficial to any one using a heat matt but if positioned correctly they would also double up as locating pegs should you want to stack them on top of one another as in one of your Photo's.

If I had more Inverts ( I probably will If my son has any say LOL) I would much prefer to put money your way than spend out on the Crappy Exo plastic'breaky'ariums thingies that I have my few Inverts in.

Regards Deano.....


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

They look great mate! Nice one:no1:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Khanidge said:


> Jay they look very professional, sturdy and all round good quality.
> I have just one question though, could you fit feet to the bottom of each? this would not only give a slight air gap to the bottom which would be beneficial to any one using a heat matt but if positioned correctly they would also double up as locating pegs should you want to stack them on top of one another as in one of your Photo's.
> 
> If I had more Inverts ( I probably will If my son has any say LOL) I would much prefer to put money your way than spend out on the Crappy Exo plastic'breaky'ariums thingies that I have my few Inverts in.
> ...


its something I thought about but notsure its easy done I'm trying to keep em simple so they stay cheap before any are sold I will be drilling two holes above the lid to allow inflow if people would like to stack them


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Nice enclosures.
Is the acrylic/perspex thick enough not to bend? and can the lids be locked? I don't fancy my pokies making an exit 
How do they differ from the other enclosures available?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Nice enclosures.
> Is the acrylic/perspex thick enough not to bend? and can the lids be locked? I don't fancy my pokies making an exit
> How do they differ from the other enclosures available?


Just seen this il be adding locks and hinges as a option the lid is secure as there cut tight and weighted down by a handle and other then being cheaper I'm trying a few tweaks here and there including vents to make them a little diffrent the first lots I'm making are sinple to keep the cost down and make it as easy as possible for me whilst starting out


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Edited


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> Just seen this il be adding locks and hinges as a option the lid is secure as there cut tight and weighted down by a handle and other then being cheaper I'm trying a few tweaks here and there including vents to make them a little diffrent the first lots I'm making are sinple to keep the cost down and make it as easy as possible for me whilst starting out


can I ask a couple of questions?

firstly you say that the lid is cut tight, isnt that going to cause a problem when feeding? trying to get the lid off if it is that tight will cause distress to the spider.
and if it is loose enough to remove easily, surely a small perspex handle isnt
going to keep the lid secure?? have the enclosures been tested over a suitable period of time in all
conditions, eg high temps, low temps, heat mats, ventilation, humidity etc
I am confidant that the House of Spiders enclosures, that I own have all been tested
in every way and I can sleep at night knowing my expensive Tarantulas 
are all safe.

someone here posted that he liked 'your' designs, I am sure that House of Spiders came up with the 'design' about a 2 years ago and as such 
havent you enfringed copyright/design rights?

you have already said that you bought some 'Perspex Enclosures' 
at the SEAS show and basically copied the 'design' the only Perspex Enclosure seller at the SEAS show was House of Spiders
have you even thought you may be breaking copyright/design laws by copying their designs, from the airholes to the lid design,

I wouldnt be surprised if they havent already contacted a solicitor,
if I was in their shoes I certainly wouldnt want my hard earned designs
stolen, after all it takes hard work, testing, and money to get to the point House of Spiders have!!

just a little bit of advice, from someone who has been in your position
do not claim that something that is copied is your design, it is bound to ruffle some feathers,

I wish you the best of luck with your venture, but to save yourself alot
of hassle, it would be advisable to change the design of your tanks,
so they do not look like House of Spiders enclosures.

I have asked Mark from the House of Spiders about the prices, and he has said
he will match any price, cant say fairer than that!!

:no1:


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

Boopster said:


> can I ask a couple of questions?
> 
> firstly you say that the lid is cut tight, isnt that going to cause a problem when feeding? trying to get the lid off if it is that tight will cause distress to the spider.
> and if it is loose enough to remove easily, surely a small perspex handle isnt
> ...



Im sorry, what a load of rubbish! The design has been around for years! Custom Aquaria have been making tanks that size for alot longer then two years, just out of glass, and fishtanks, which lets be honest, are the same design, have been around for even longer! Should he have used 7 sides instead of 6 just so it looked different!? Rubbish!

And House of Spider tanks warp, well the lids do, so i wouldnt sleep to safely if thats what your worried about!


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

DannyB said:


> Im sorry, what a load of rubbish! The design has been around for years! Custom Aquaria have been making tanks that size for alot longer then two years, just out of glass, and fishtanks, which lets be honest, are the same design, have been around for even longer! Should he have used 7 sides instead of 6 just so it looked different!? Rubbish!
> 
> And House of Spider tanks warp, well the lids do, so i wouldnt sleep to safely if thats what your worried about!


Custom Aquaria Tanks are Glass, and have a mesh on them so they are clearly different, and as such, they do not enfringe the design copyright!
Jays tanks are a perfect copy of HoS enclosures, as I said right down to 
the air holes and lid design......

and I sleep very well at night Thankyou :2thumb:


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

DannyB said:


> Im sorry, what a load of rubbish! The design has been around for years! Custom Aquaria have been making tanks that size for alot longer then two years, just out of glass, and fishtanks, which lets be honest, are the same design, have been around for even longer! Should he have used 7 sides instead of 6 just so it looked different!? Rubbish!
> 
> And House of Spider tanks warp, well the lids do, so i wouldnt sleep to safely if thats what your worried about!


 
Agreed... In fact I read into that as perhaps a mild threat or a "back off" statement to be honest ... maybe i'm wrong. There are many who do this type of work and I can't see why copyright has to come into it.
-P


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

You mean HOS didnt infringe the design! The air holes look to be in a different pattern to me, they look similar in the fact that they have 6 sides, one of which is a lid, ill give you that. Not sure how its possible to make them look any different!


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

Paul c 1 said:


> Agreed... In fact I read into that as perhaps a mild threat or a "back off" statement to be honest ... maybe i'm wrong. There are many who do this type of work and I can't see why copyright has to come into it.
> -P


I agree with you Paul, there are many people that do this, 
but how many blatently rip off someone elses design??

I suppose it was a mild warning, because I have been on the end of
a copyright claim, and to be honest it got very messy
and ended up costing me alot of money.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

If the guy has the design copyrighted then that's that surely?


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## ZZfan (Feb 22, 2010)

This is turning into an interesting discussion. 
I too bought my first enclosure from HoS before deciding that I could make them myself. To be honest it was not that much cheaper but I enjoyed designing and building them. I decided to use circular mesh vents rather than drilling lots of holes in the acrylic. After making the first one for my G rosea I also decided that I prefererred a hinged lid with a lockable hasp so I changed the design slightly and made a few more. A few months later HoS had also decided to make enclosures with hinges and hasps so I guess there is a demand for this design (tarantulacages in the US have a similar design). 
I have been looking into making some to sell too but have been slightly concerned about stepping on HoS toes. However I think my designs are different enough to not look like a copy and there is nothing wrong with a bit of friendly competition. Plus I am likely to sell very few of them so will not really impact on their business. I have some more ideas too which will ensure they look different.
Jaykickboxer's enclosures look great and he is doing well to keep the costs down, acrylic aint cheap. If he moves to using aluminium mesh vents then they'll look quite different. To be honest I would be trying to make them look less like HoS enclosures before selling them. But that would be just to put my mind at rest.


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

You can't copyright a square box that has a door with a hinge and a couple of holes drilled in the side, it's impossible, and by the way HOS weren't the first people to make these enclosures and they won't be the last, at the end of the day, you buy sheets of acrylic, some hinges and liquid cement, stick it all together and you're done.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Richard77 said:


> You can't copyright a square box that has a door with a hinge and a couple of holes drilled in the side, it's impossible, and by the way HOS weren't the first people to make these enclosures and they won't be the last, at the end of the day, you buy sheets of acrylic, some hinges and liquid cement, stick it all together and you're done.


Are you saying they don't have rights to the design?


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

It's not mine or anyones design, It's like saying you're going to copyright a door, you can't, you CAN copyright the hinge device to be used to make the door move but that's it, it's just a bit of wood that goes back and for, drilling a couple of holes on the side of a box doesn't come into it, if HOS designed the hinges that the door was being used for and other people were ripping that off, that's different, but they or anybody else didn't, anyone can buy a hinge from B&Q then you can do what the hell you want with it.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Richard77 said:


> It's not mine or anyones design, It's like saying you're going to copyright a door, you can't, you CAN copyright the hinge device to be used to make the door move but that's it, it's just a bit of wood that goes back and for, drilling a couple of holes on the side of a box doesn't come into it, if HOS designed the hinges that the door was being used for and other people were ripping that off, that's different, but they or anybody else didn't, anyone can buy a hinge from B&Q then you can do what the hell you want with it.


You didn't answer the question.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

bobby said:


> Are you saying they don't have rights to the design?


I believe what Richard is saying Bobby is that HoS have the rights to _their_ actual design although that doesn't mean that other people can make there own version and call it their own.

TBH this is quite an interesting thread, I use HoS's enclosure and have done for some time, there customer service is outstanding, obviously it wont make Mark happy that someone else is making enclosures similar to his own. Although I guess what can you do? I dont see a great problem with it.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

ZZfan said:


> This is turning into an interesting discussion.
> I too bought my first enclosure from HoS before deciding that I could make them myself. To be honest it was not that much cheaper but I enjoyed designing and building them. I decided to use circular mesh vents rather than drilling lots of holes in the acrylic. After making the first one for my G rosea I also decided that I prefererred a hinged lid with a lockable hasp so I changed the design slightly and made a few more. A few months later HoS had also decided to make enclosures with hinges and hasps so I guess there is a demand for this design (tarantulacages in the US have a similar design).
> I have been looking into making some to sell too but have been slightly concerned about stepping on HoS toes. However I think my designs are different enough to not look like a copy and there is nothing wrong with a bit of friendly competition. Plus I am likely to sell very few of them so will not really impact on their business. I have some more ideas too which will ensure they look different.
> Jaykickboxer's enclosures look great and he is doing well to keep the costs down, acrylic aint cheap. If he moves to using aluminium mesh vents then they'll look quite different. To be honest I would be trying to make them look less like HoS enclosures before selling them. But that would be just to put my mind at rest.


 
A good contribution there and some valid points too.... although HOS manufacture some decent quality enclosures it's extremely unrealistic for anyone to think that they have the sole franchising rights to the whole entire market place for perspex enclosures in the UK, I struggle to see where people can wave the copyright flag at such a simple and basic idea they are all going to look the same to some extent... people have been making perspex enclosures for a long time.

And yes you do have to expect a certain amount of 'healthy' competition with most things you venture into, it's going to happen at some point sooner or later.... when copyright is mentioned it just waves sour grapes to me.
-P


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

bobby said:


> You didn't answer the question.


Yes you can copywright your design, but they didn't design anything, I can buy the same hinges, same acrylic (all copywritten by other companies and manufactures who make acrylic and hinges ) And I'm pretty sure you can't copyright a couple of holes drilled in the side.

Here's my version of acrylic tanks, the only thing I could copyright on these are my logo, as that's the only bit of 'my' design that's unique, everything else was bought from a shop...


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

of course you cannot copyright a square box!!!
that is just silly.....

but you can copyright the design, the lid, how it fits, the handle to remove
the lid, the airhole designs

at the end of the day, it isnt just simply a square box now is it??

ZZfan I have seen your enclosures, they are individual, and so are yours Richard

but when you look at Jays tanks, what do you see?
an enclosure that looks exactly like house of Spiders......

that is where copyright/design laws come into action


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Paul c 1 said:


> A good contribution there and some valid points too.... although HOS manufacture some decent quality enclosures it's extremely unrealistic for anyone to think that they have the sole franchising rights to the whole entire market place for perspex enclosures in the UK, I struggle to see where people can wave the copyright flag at such a simple and basic idea they are all going to look the same to some extent... people have been making perspex enclosures for a long time.
> 
> And yes you do have to expect a certain amount of 'healthy' competition with most things you venture into, it's going to happen at some point sooner or later.... when copyright is mentioned it just waves sour grapes to me.
> -P


 
Totally agree Paul surley having more businesses providing a service for the hobby has to be a + and yeah sour grapes comes to mind aswell sadly.... Healthy competition!!!!


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

I'm sure HoS don't mind a bit of healthy competition....

If they have rights on the design then they have rights on the design....

AGAIN...ARE YOU SAYING THEY DON'T?

This is a yes or no answer dude....


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

Dr3d said:


> Totally agree Paul surley having more businesses providing a service for the hobby has to be a + and yeah sour grapes comes to mind aswell sadly.... Healthy competition!!!!


healthy competition is more than fine, when an enclosure is individual
like ZZfans, or Richards and may I add they are lovely enclosures both

as I have said before, Jays are a total copies of House of Spiders
and as such, breaking copyright and design laws


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

yes I'm going to say no... Or am I?:lol2:

It's amazing how heated and sour discussions go when it all boils down to money!


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

It's amazing that people can't answer yes or no...


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Boopster said:


> healthy competition is more than fine, when an enclosure is individual
> like ZZfans, or Richards and may I add they are lovely enclosures both
> 
> as I have said before, Jays are a total copies of House of Spiders
> and as such, breaking copyright and design laws


 
Am I right in saying HOS are made in Glass ??? I am sure Jays were made in perspex and to be honest where he drills holes in the enclosures would not ammount to copyright....

Ford Galaxy/VW sharan <----- Perfect copys made by the same people for 2 different companies, exactly what Richard is saying the only copyright on these vehicles are the NAME!!!


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

HOS are perspex.


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Richard77 said:


> HOS are perspex.


Is it yours that are made in Glass Richard ??


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Richard77 said:


> yes I'm going to say no... Or am I?:lol2:
> 
> *It's amazing how heated and sour discussions go when it all boils down to money!*




This is so true!
-P


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

OK, I'm just gonna clear a few things up for people who are interested.

With regards to copyright, Jay is doing nothing wrong.

The UK Copyright Law only protects the following;



*Literary *song lyrics, manuscripts, manuals, computer programs, commercial documents, leaflets, newsletters & articles etc.
*Dramatic * plays, dance, etc.
*Musical* recordings and score.
*Artistic* photography, painting, sculptures, architecture, technical drawings/diagrams, maps, logos.
*Typographical arrangement of published editions*magazines, periodicals, etc.
*Sound recording*may be recordings of other copyright works, e.g. musical and literary.
*Films* broadcasts and cable programmes.
The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 extended the rules covering literary works to include computer programs.
The only thing protecting HOS enclosures ( or any other for that matter ) are Design Rights.

Design rights protect the following;

The appearance of a product, in particular, the shape, texture, colour, materials used, contours and ornamentation. To qualify as a new design, the overall impression should be different from any existing design.

So basically HOS enclosures ARE protected but design rights, but NOT by copyright.

However, if HOS have plans / drawings of their enclosures on paper, these paper plans will be copyright of HOS.

Hopefully this clears things up.

If not, I will have confused alot of people.:lol2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

snowgoose said:


> OK, I'm just gonna clear a few things up for people who are interested.
> 
> With regards to copyright, Jay is doing nothing wrong.
> 
> ...


It clears things up....and states in black and white that Jay has been a bit naughty....I couldn't tell the difference between his and HoS?


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it should be said now, on HoS behalf if i may, that this conversation has nothing to do with them and anyone reading through this should not think that ANYBODY is talking on their behalf. They themselves have not made any comment here and nobody involved in this thread has anything to do with them! 

Dont want HoS name to be brought down by certain peoples comments here!


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

DannyB said:


> I think it should be said now, on HoS behalf if i may, that this conversation has nothing to do with them and anyone reading through this should not think that ANYBODY is talking on their behalf. They themselves have not made any comment here and nobody involved in this thread has anything to do with them!
> 
> Dont want HoS name to be brought down by certain peoples comments here!


This is an excellent point. For all we know HoS don't mind Jays selling his tanks...


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

Mine are perspex mate, I wish I could make em out of glass, it's a lot cheaper!



Dr3d said:


> Is it yours that are made in Glass Richard ??


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## Richard77 (Feb 19, 2009)

I agree!



dannyb said:


> i think it should be said now, on hos behalf if i may, that this conversation has nothing to do with them and anyone reading through this should not think that anybody is talking on their behalf. They themselves have not made any comment here and nobody involved in this thread has anything to do with them!
> 
> Dont want hos name to be brought down by certain peoples comments here!


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Richard77 said:


> Mine are perspex mate, I wish I could make em out of glass, it's a lot cheaper!


I do aswell, I have seen Perspex enclosure being made by loads a different people over the last 20 odd years and glass just seems sooo much better.. not that I have bought any perspex tanks, when I kept a few Tarantulas back then I made my own....

I am sure in the thread somewhere I read someone made them in glass, but sadly cant be assed to read all this again lol


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

There seems to be a misunderstanding here on copyright laws. Its quite easy to distinguish infringement when talking about such small items, with few characteristics.

Creating a perspex enclosure is not an infringement.
Creating an enclosure where numerous features resemble that of another, for commercial use, is an infringement of copyright.

Its easy to pick examples where one product looks like another but if the design has numerous features that are totally different then its not an obvious copy. Also, if a design is considered public domain it would be hard to suggest copyright infringement.

Its quite possible to take numerous objects that are available to the public, put them together as a single object and claim copyright on that combination of elements.

There's lots of grey areas of course, but if certain elements are a direct copy of another product, in the same market, then the person copying leaves themselves open to copyright infringement, loss of earnings etc.

If I felt someone was copying my design, I'd certainly consider legal proceedings, and I'd be supported by the law whether that was an item or an idea in my head.


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## Houseofspiders (May 13, 2009)

Ok folks this thread is getting very hot and people are obviously very opinionated over this.

Can I just clarify to all that Boopster did NOT say HoS had a copywright on a tarantula enclosure.
What was said was that HoS have design rights on their enclosures not copyright or Patent but Design rights.
The law states that you cannot copy a design someone has already made and produced. It is protected by the overall appearance to which these enclosures fall into
Now the enclosures in question are blatantly copied from our design and to which the maker has already stated in another posting and I was the one who sold him the said enclosure lol

Now we welcome competition and we are not issuing a "back off" warning as suggested and boopster has apologized if it came over that way, but that was done more via heat of the moment due to being in Lethem terms "she was naffed off at it" lol.

What we do object to is the makers stating they copied and made there own which in design are extremely close to ours, and defiantly fall into a overall appearance. Which in the eyes of the law is not allowed.

ZZ made a very good point that if the maker had used something like meshed air vents etc this would be fine as the over all appearance would be totally different.

Richard you are quite right you cannot copyright a perspex box but you can protect your design.

Now if I may I will use the enclosures you made as a simple example (which where very impressive by btw and think I even tried to advise you a little on perspex) as your enclosures do not look anything like our enclosures and therefore even though they both serve the same purpose there is no issue with design rights as the appearance of both enclosures are very much different.

As to us being against the maker selling these yes we object but we certainly don't object to them to making their own design of perspex enclosure and selling them, as I stated we welcome competition this gives customers a better wider choice which ultimately results in the customer getting a better deal.

I hope this clears a few things up and does not fuel even more problems on ths thread.

Thanks
Mark
HoS


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## peterparker (Nov 11, 2010)

*Top chap*



Houseofspiders said:


> Ok folks this thread is getting very hot and people are obviously very opinionated over this.
> 
> Can I just clarify to all that Boopster did NOT say HoS had a copywright on a tarantula enclosure.
> What was said was that HoS have design rights on their enclosures not copyright or Patent but Design rights.
> ...


Hats off to you there Mark HoS, handled like a true gent, cleared it all up in a jiffy.
Gotta say this has been one of the best threads I've read for ages, had to finish to see how it panned out, like a best selling thriller :lol2:


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## JayW (Dec 14, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> There seems to be a misunderstanding here on copyright laws. Its quite easy to distinguish infringement when talking about such small items, with few characteristics.
> 
> Creating a perspex enclosure is not an infringement.
> Creating an enclosure where numerous features resemble that of another, for commercial use, is an infringement of copyright.
> ...


Due to the industry I am in and been a business owner, I see a lot about copyright and always make sure I am on top. The things people claim are unreal, colouring etc. 

You can not copyright a colour, a certian matieral etc. If the HoS made a design, there is no proof they have seen the idea else where, same goes for Jay's. However, just to point out. You are saying about copyright infragment, there has none been made due to HoS not been copyrighted by law, nor are the products they use licensed by them. For them to have their designs copyrighted, then they must be doing well for themselves.

Anyway, I don't see the whole arguement here? If Jay, HoS, Richard etc, good for them. Least they are doing something in life and not been on street corners like little chavs vandolising everything they see. (I am not calling anyone a chav, case that comes across). 

Only thing you can do is, support them, offer your ideas and wish them luck. If you like the product, buy from them. If not, go else where. 

This arguement could be taken well out the leage if you were to carry on about copyright. Crisps for example etc. 

Sorry to ramble on.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

FYI: I used the word copyright not because I knew it was correct, but because design rights sits under the umbrella of a copyright laws.

I believe you can copyright a material, Tyvex is an excellent example. Whilst you might not be able to copyright a colour try seeing whether you'd escape the solicitors if you developed mobile phones called Orange, or computers called Apple, or a charity called Red. 

If you're looking for a simple test case check out Duracell's action against a company that imitated the look of Duracell batteries.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Firstly I don't think it's been a "heated" thread, it's a good debate point and that's the whole basis and fundamental of an open forum it's for people to actively contribute with their 'tuppence' worth or so to speak.

I still maintain the view that people worry too much about copyright/designright and labour too much on what their competition is doing. I remember around seven years ago I started working for a company (a very successful company where I still work today) as a young naive whippersnapper, I was constantly whining on about what our competitors were doing and how they were copying our ideas and undercutting on prices at every opportunity.... and my boss said to me; "why worry about what your competitors are doing?... concentrate on what we're good at... the overall service provided (which is second to none), the delivery service provided, the quality of the products etc and sell on that." .... just something that has stuck with me since.

I don't want to chime on sounding like something out of 'The Dragons Den' but it's true, concentrate on the things your good at and there really won't be a problem. 
-P


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## JayW (Dec 14, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> FYI: I used the word copyright not because I knew it was correct, but because design rights sits under the umbrella of a copyright laws.
> 
> I believe you can copyright a material, Tyvex is an excellent example. Whilst you might not be able to copyright a colour try seeing whether you'd escape the solicitors if you developed mobile phones called Orange, or computers called Apple, or a charity called Red.
> 
> If you're looking for a simple test case check out Duracell's action against a company that imitated the look of Duracell batteries.


I think you misread my post. I was not saying anything against your point. However, the very first few lines you have moreless said what I was getting at. You can copyright a material or design. However, you need to be the owner of it. 

But by law, if you had them copyrighted (which you need to pay for of course) and you used that same design and took that person to court. You'd have a tough case as they would need to check each hole (it's been proven to be like that at times) stupid I know. 

Either way, I don't see what the arguement is about. I'm planning on buying some sheets soon and designing my own (not to sell though) does this mean I will be in the wrong?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Right I haven't had time to read all this thread and I can't be botherd now However yes I have used plexiglass the same as house of spiders and clear round tube to secure my lid as these are redily available at perspex shops a tank is a tank the sale as almost all fistanks I also drilled holes for ventalation as this is a must however u look at it without getting to elaberate um how else can u male them enclosures like this are made all around the world I'm by no means trying to rip off tgere designes I've just had mesh vents deliverd and I'm trying to incorporate diffrent options into my design this only started as i tryed to buy house of spiders tanks at two shows the first they didst attemd then they sold out before i had a chance to get any except two smalls so I made my own I've changed amythings changeable but a perspex tank is a tank like I said my designed will be changing anyways but the way ive made it is how most perspex shops construct there boxes with the exception of airholes and a lid like i said im by no meams trying to copy everything its like people saying any ine making a plain fishtank is copying custom aquaria trying to copy the same asent styled dartfrog vivs so who are everyone making the same vivariums copying? Like i said i intend ti change whatever possible not only so as to not copy them but to put my own stamp on them also my air holes. End of the day whatever a perspex tanks a perspex tank


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I also fail to see how u can claim rights to drilled airholes? Is this not something we've all be doing for years and plastic tosa and perspex sheets which are the most readily available things in a perspex shop? However u look at it this is the easiest way and cheapest way of making tanks although ul find my exact dimensions are diffrent to any hos of spiders offer for example the small ones I advertised as 8x4 are actually 8.5 inches and my airholes are drilled in diffrent patten how much can u change


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## JayW (Dec 14, 2010)

Wouldn't even explain yourself to be honest. Tanks are gonna be basic your not going to have curved ones with a princess tower on top are you? Your gonna have a basic box, vents and then your design of scene inside. Don't know what people are complaining about.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

JayW said:


> Wouldn't even explain yourself to be honest. Tanks are gonna be basic your not going to have *curved ones with a princess tower on top* are you? Your gonna have a basic box, vents and then your design of scene inside. Don't know what people are complaining about.


Think I'll patent that...


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Honestly a tanks a tanks so that's defanatly not copyrighted ! Check

Airholes I'm pretty sure these have been common practise for u spider keepers for years so there safe! Check 
So the only thing which can be in question is the use of rods to secure the lid as there the second most common thing in a perspex shop and u also use the other only means readily availble hinges what else can.u do its Lile claiming copywright on the use of a screw to secure a door the only diffrent from zz fans and ur hinged version is the vents so i can only assum ur claiming copywright on drilled holes which mine are actually placed diffrently and using a ..5 mm bigger drill bit then urs so surely these are safe


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## Boopster (May 13, 2009)

I will look forward to seeing your new designs then Jay!!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

bobby said:


> Think I'll patent that...


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## JayW (Dec 14, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> fans and ur hinged version is the vents so i can only assum ur claiming copywright on drilled holes which mine are actually placed diffrently and using a ..5 mm bigger drill bit then urs so surely these are safe


I highly doubt they have paid loads for copyright on holes. If they have, then tell me the size so I can bin my tanks case you wanna take me caught (sarcasm). As said, it's pathetic on how people will fight over a design and say they did this and that. 

You choice of tank. You not going to pay for someone else to make you a tank if you can do it yourself are you?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

At the request of a representative of HoS this thread has been closed.
I'd suggest the 2 parties get in touch privately to discuss how to proceed.


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