# Hypo Rainwater Albino Leopard Gecko



## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Hi I'm back to Lizard keeping after a 10+ year gap. I went and aquired my old skink setup from my mums and set about cleaning it out. After I stopped off at WILTON BIRDS & EXOTIC PET CENTRE in Basildon and ended up bringing home an Hypo Rainwater Albino Leopard Gecko.

I only guessed it's the above using google;










It was down as just an Albino whether or not that's right or not lol.

Unfortunately the guy working in the reptile room said he was just covering so not only do I not know the sex of my Leo but I also have no idea how old it is. 

Meet Topaz














































Forgive me for the focussing he/she is quite skittish atm, fine sitting on my hands or bed ect but when it wants to it's off! lol.

Note the scratch on the head obviously been at battle with the normal leo in the tank. I was also gutted to see 2 baby bosc monitors dead in an enclosure.

Better pictures to come when I get him/her settled and used to me .


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Rainwater albinos are pretty hard to come by I think he's more likely to be tremper albino 

Other than that I would say he's definitely been in a fight because the end of his tail is re growth. His tail is also very skinny please fatten him up
ASAP and if you have any other reptiles keep him away and wash your hands before touching any others in case he is carrying anything 

Lovely looking Leo though!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Sarah-Jayne said:


> Rainwater albinos are pretty hard to come by I think he's more likely to be tremper albino
> 
> Other than that I would say he's definitely been in a fight because the end of his tail is re growth. His tail is also very skinny please fatten him up
> ASAP and if you have any other reptiles keep him away and wash your hands before touching any others in case he is carrying anything
> ...


Hmm thing is that picture above is literally how he/she looks in real life and the pictures on google for the one you said brings up things that mostly look nothing like it. How unlikely is it that he/she could be the one above ^ 

Also I didn't realise it was re-growth that's annoying hopefully it over time grows back properly with a tip. I feel like I've more rescued the poor bugger now. 1 small cricket down so far which isn't good enough but hopefully buying some meal worms today.

As for other reps I have none but I do have 2 Alpine newts and he is no where near them lol.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,lovely looking gecko you have.He does look like he has been through the wars a bit poor thing.His tail will never look like it did before but that doesn't matter it makes no odds.Try him on some medium locusts and a couple of wax worms now and then would help fatten him up and be a nice treat for him.Have you got his set up and temps correct?


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Hi thanks, it doesn't really bother me much one of my old Skinks had a stub for a tail and they're alot less pretty to look at! I bought this beautiful little one because I fell in love at the store (and I've been on the look for a Leo for ages).

His setup is based around care sheets 3 hides one in hot, one moist and one in the shade temps set between 24&25c.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi that temp is ok for the cool end but a temp of around 32/33 should be at the hot end.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Alpine said:


> Hmm thing is that picture above is literally how he/she looks in real life and the pictures on google for the one you said brings up things that mostly look nothing like it. How unlikely is it that he/she could be the one above ^
> 
> Also I didn't realise it was re-growth that's annoying hopefully it over time grows back properly with a tip. I feel like I've more rescued the poor bugger now. 1 small cricket down so far which isn't good enough but hopefully buying some meal worms today.
> 
> As for other reps I have none but I do have 2 Alpine newts and he is no where near them lol.


Well I haven kept leopard geckos for a couple of years but when I did rainwater albino was very hard to get hold of, tremper albino is the most common and bell albino next

Yeah the end of his tail is regrowth when he gets fatter it will look very smooth compared to the rest  shops at usually clueless and keep males together in one tank which ends up with fighting so that's probably what happened


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> Hi that temp is ok for the cool end but a temp of around 32/33 should be at the hot end.


Cheers yeah it's set to 32 now 



Sarah-Jayne said:


> Well I haven kept leopard geckos for a couple of years but when I did rainwater albino was very hard to get hold of, tremper albino is the most common and bell albino next
> 
> Yeah the end of his tail is regrowth when he gets fatter it will look very smooth compared to the rest  shops at usually clueless and keep males together in one tank which ends up with fighting so that's probably what happened


Ah I see I'll have to get some opinions to see and get some better pictures of him/her.

ATM it's not eating. So far only one cricket which I pretty much held to his/her face. I have put a bowl of wax worms in and sprinkled calcium powder. on. Hopefully it's just needing to settle down.


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

When did you get the leo??? If it's recent it's just settleing in that's why it's not eating yet... Don't rush to get the weight on him he'll take it in time  Just keep an eye on his weight and his faeces to check for signs of illness or parasite, you want them a solid stool and urate.
Also waxworms aren't great to feed in bulk, leo's find them very addictive, especially when not eating great it might turn to just eat waxworms and refuse everything else.
-Luke


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,have you got a multi vitamin powder also?


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

ChelsNLuke said:


> When did you get the leo??? If it's recent it's just settleing in that's why it's not eating yet... Don't rush to get the weight on him he'll take it in time  Just keep an eye on his weight and his faeces to check for signs of illness or parasite, you want them a solid stool and urate.
> Also waxworms aren't great to feed in bulk, leo's find them very addictive, especially when not eating great it might turn to just eat waxworms and refuse everything else.
> -Luke


Got him/her on Sunday I thought it would be down to that but as it was pointed out that it's on the skinny side I was worrying it could be something more sinister. Considering the fact it's skinny as and had already had its tail bitten off. And the fact that although most probably not related there was two dead baby bosc monitors a few vivs down. I'll monitor eating activities over the next couple of days and if it doesn't pick up I'm going to tell them so should the worst happen they can't say it was under my care and point out he's been in a fight ect.

He poos fine by the looks of him quite runny guessing it's urine and a little white and black lol.

Wax worms are only to coax him in to eating I used to give them as treats rather than a meal. I chose them because they were easy and fatty and given it's current state it could use it lol!

Need to find out the sex so I can stop referring to it as it or he/she! Topaz in every other sentence would look silly lol.



littlefoot said:


> Hi,have you got a multi vitamin powder also?


Hi yeah 'Cricket diet' apparently it has everything required the guy at the store said!


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

Alpine said:


> He poos fine by the looks of him quite runny guessing it's urine and a little white and black lol.



Do you mean his actual stool is runny and the urate is runny??? Leo's have solid urate's should be white or a little yellow looks like a bit of chalk next to just a black stool, shouldn't really be runny. Unless he poos on the heat mat?

-Luke


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

Also the cricket powder is to feed to the crickets, you want a supplement like repashy plus to dust the insects with

-Luke


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Hi he has done solid but his first few were quite runny. I don't know all the phrases yet so probably what you said. Looks like I need to do some more reading.

Yeah that's what I use to feed them not him lol. I just bought what they had at the time but I will buy the above ASAP. 

Il monitor him anyway and if his next poo is runny il wack a picture up. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks for your responses.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Could you say what that cricket diet is? what brand is it and is it powder?


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> Could you say what that cricket diet is? what brand is it and is it powder?


Here is a link to an ebay listing for the stuff, I didn't purchase it through ebay but it's the same stuff.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EuroRep-C...ng-Supplement-150g-Reptile-Care-/250919544850

See what you think, it seems to be loaded with good stuff but then I'm not an expert.

Cheers


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

ChelsNLuke said:


> Do you mean his actual stool is runny and the urate is runny??? Leo's have solid urate's should be white or a little yellow looks like a bit of chalk next to just a black stool, shouldn't really be runny. Unless he poos on the heat mat?
> 
> -Luke


Poo was exactly how you describe today so it seems it's all working in that department as it should


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

A good eye shot would help but I would be inclined to say you have a tremper sunglow. Rainwaters of that vibrance are pretty scarce in the UK. He look as if he has been battered a bit and a faecal screen is always advisable.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Mal said:


> A good eye shot would help but I would be inclined to say you have a tremper sunglow. Rainwaters of that vibrance are pretty scarce in the UK. He look as if he has been battered a bit and a faecal screen is always advisable.


Here is a shot of his eye,










I will say when his eye is properly taking in light it goes completely see through dark red which is why I think he was labeled as an albino, his colour is alot lighter in the flesh but for some reason cameras always compensate for his lightness I think. He/she has green above the eyes and a leopardy print. Body wise looks to me, bar the tail in person exactly like the picture I posted in the original post. I have no idea what morph it is I'd love to find out exactly but the shop didn't know, they just knew it was albino.

I think he/she is getting used to me now, started coming to the front of the viv and sits on my laptop for heat while out exploring.

As for the screening, would I just take it to a vet?

Thanks


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Depending on lighting;










He/she does get brighter. The yellow certainly is more striking than in this picture.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

That substrate is on it's way out btw - I have;










On order, that was just what he was used to in the shop. I know calci sand is frowned upon because of the risk of impaction.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Alpine said:


> Here is a shot of his eye,
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Tremper


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Ok that's good to know, so is it a Tremper sunglow albino?


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Here's a few more pictures of him/her and the setup.

Heat Lamp and heat mat 34c hot end and 22-24 in the cold end, he has a moist hide but I took it out for the pictures because it's unsightly lol. I personally don't like the look of it being a takeaway box but if he enjoys it lol!

Ps ignore that thermometer it's just in their because it had a sticky pad behind and taking it off leaves 5 year + glue residue sunken in. I have two cheapo outside digi ones with probes you can probably make out in the picture  














































Poo normal?










No editing of the pics just resizing so colours are accurate.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,that poop looks rather runny to me,it should be more solid than that.Would be a very good idea to get a P.A.L.S test done.


Look here


Reptile Owners


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,that poop looks rather runny to me,it should be more solid than that.Would be a very good idea to get a P.A.L.S test done.
> 
> 
> Look here
> ...


Thanks I'll take a look!

I think I'm going to call the shop to tell them. I've only had the little guy a few days and I've found it's been in the wars dropped it's tail previously and isn't pooping as should. I don't want to hand it back I just want them to know how badly they have cared for it and the boscs they lost on the weekend.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Alpine said:


> Thanks I'll take a look!
> 
> I think I'm going to call the shop to tell them. I've only had the little guy a few days and I've found it's been in the wars dropped it's tail previously and isn't pooping as should. I don't want to hand it back I just want them to know how badly they have cared for it and the boscs they lost on the weekend.


They will most likely tell you that you are wrong and they wont care, thats what usually happens to me when shops tell me something that is wrong and I correct them lol but good luck!


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I would definately go and speak to the shop owners.That poop looks like diarrhoea and doesn't look good at all.He is thin and has previously lost his tail and has obviously been in the wars.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Todays poop...










Sorry about all the shit I've been posting in this thread. :lol2:

It appears a locust is missing and that poop when broken up looked like a 90% digested locust.

So good that he/she is hunting, but that doesn't look how you guys have described.

Conveniently they are shut today, So tomorrow I shall have to try not to fly off the handle when they tell me it's been fine in their care and now it's having issues in mine. I would go to the shop if it wasn't 45 mins up the road in Basildon. Obviously I will if they say bring the little guy back to observe. I paid £60 for it, money doesn't matter but it would seem they have royally had me over if it doesn't get better. I certainly will think twice about buying from them again which is a shame as the place is big and has a nice array of reps.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,that poop does not look right at all,is it pink/red? Can you tell it is a locust? If so then i would say he definately has some problems going on in his gut/digestion.Did you actualy see him poop this out? Could he of sicked it up?

Doesn't matter how big a shop is or how many animals it has in it.If it isn't caring for those animals properly then it's best avoided altogether.


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## Mr Chad (Feb 25, 2013)

How does the leo look underneath? Any sign of prolapse or damage to its vent?

That certainly doesnt look healthy. Sounds like that shop is best avoided, and well worth reporting.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,that poop does not look right at all,is it pink/red? Can you tell it is a locust? If so then i would say he definately has some problems going on in his gut/digestion.Did you actualy see him poop this out? Could he of sicked it up?
> 
> Doesn't matter how big a shop is or how many animals it has in it.If it isn't caring for those animals properly then it's best avoided altogether.


I could tell it was a locust because of size and one of the legs was partially identifiable. It was redy pink in colour. Could have possibly sicked it up as I didn't see him .

I totally agree with that statement what I mean is because I haven't got many decent places near me that I know of which has as many variety of animals. It's a shame they obviously aren't looking after them properly. 

I'm gutted really hope he/she doesn't end up dying on me. 



Mr Chad said:


> How does the leo look underneath? Any sign of prolapse or damage to its vent?
> 
> That certainly doesnt look healthy. Sounds like that shop is best avoided, and well worth reporting.


Hi he seems fine underneath but I'm no expert so I'll wack a picture up in a little while need someone to take it!

I will definitely phone them and if they try to dodge it I may report them to the RSPCA or something. It's not on at all. When I saw two dead boscs or at least one definitely dead being eaten by a cricket and the other looking well on it's way out I almost had to buy that little guy, luckily I was looking for one. I guess I should have expected issues with that lot going on 3 vivs down.

I will upload a picture of his underside within the next hr and I'll report back tomorrow on what they have to say for themselves. The guy who served me claimed to be a weekend guy only so he didn't know much about anything. I mentioned calcium ect for a dish ect and he said he'd never heard of Leo's actively eating calci powder from a dish.

Thanks for all replies guys.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Oh dear that doesn't look good at all  it should be solid brown with a solid white bit at the end

Definitely see if you can get those tests done in case he has a parasite

Also if he's been on that sand stuff a long time he might have eaten some of it and they can't digest it so that wouldn't be helping him


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Sarah-Jayne said:


> Oh dear that doesn't look good at all  it should be solid brown with a solid white bit at the end
> 
> Definitely see if you can get those tests done in case he has a parasite
> 
> Also if he's been on that sand stuff a long time he might have eaten some of it and they can't digest it so that wouldn't be helping him


Shall I remove all the substrate now and just hoover it out and put tissue down?

He's currently laying in his moist hide, I wonder if it's had tail drop or bitten off due to fighting could it be a he - or do males and females fight if kept together - I know obviously people do but I'm just trying to be clever and work out the sex myself, even if that's not 100%.

The sand stuff is what they use in store so depending on how long he's been in there that's how long he's been on it. They were using it on pretty much everything from memory.

It would be just my luck that my first lizard in like 10+ years would suffer from impaction or some form of parasite. I was kind of hoping it was just nerves or something from all the moving around.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Those poos don't look good, if it were just the first one I would have put it down to stress but with the second I think you need a faecal test done ASAP. If it wasn't properly digested then there is something wrong (bad temperatures, GI problems, stress).

I would remove the substrate and put newspaper/kitchen roll down until you know that the gecko is eating well and pooing normally. While you do that I would also add a tonne more decor in there to try and reduce stress.

Males and females both fight. Could also have been due to live food bite or just a scare that caused the drop. 

Where are you taking those temperatures from (air, ground)? You may have already said but I didn't see/notice it.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Alpine said:


> Shall I remove all the substrate now and just hoover it out and put tissue down?
> 
> He's currently laying in his moist hide, I wonder if it's had tail drop or bitten off due to fighting could it be a he - or do males and females fight if kept together - I know obviously people do but I'm just trying to be clever and work out the sex myself, even if that's not 100%.
> 
> ...


If you can remove the substrate it might be a good idea, kitchen roll works fine, I used to use lino in my vivs easy to clean 

I only ever kept female leopard geckos together and even those can fight I had one that had to live by herself, but males together will fight and males and females together can also fight as the male will be very persistent wanting to breed and the female will not like that. Always easier to keep them alone lol

If you can take a picture of his vent area we can tell you whether it is male or female  a nice close up would b good!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

vgorst said:


> Those poos don't look good, if it were just the first one I would have put it down to stress but with the second I think you need a faecal test done ASAP. If it wasn't properly digested then there is something wrong (bad temperatures, GI problems, stress).
> 
> I would remove the substrate and put newspaper/kitchen roll down until you know that the gecko is eating well and pooing normally. While you do that I would also add a tonne more decor in there to try and reduce stress.
> 
> ...


Hi, temperatures are hot end between 32-34 and cool between 22-23 I have a temperature probe going in to the cool end and the thermostat probe going into the hot end. The probe for the thermostat is half way up the viv in the hot end where and the temperature probe is running in to the cool end hide.

The hot end is powered by a 'Living earth electronics habistat' and ProRep heat mat & heat strip the smaller kind (2 sizes at [email protected]).

I'm not sure what else to really add decor wise I do have some large cork hides laying around but it would really be tight with all the other stuff. I'll have to think about what I can add. I shall remove the substrate for the time being and see if there is any improvement.

Unfortunately I'm away all weekend in Berlin with no one who would know what they're looking at to spot any abnormalities - the girlfriend is feeding him and that's about it (she's not to keen on reps ect).

I'm going to notify the shop tomorrow and see what they say. I'm just going to say I bought the lizard from you on Saturday I've noticed it doesn't feed and it's poop is really runny and explain I've been informed on a reptile forum he's looking not only underweight but quite obviously ill. Then I'm just going to say shall I bring it back to you while you get it treated or get a refund. Now obviously I don't want a refund and I really don't want to send it back to them to find it's died but I'm in a moral dilemma. 

Forgetting the fact I paid £60 for him I think they should have him treated and foot the vet bills. I don't want my money back I just want lizie to be ok after I bought him from them and don't see why I should have to fork out money I don't have on something I've just bought. If I've caused it then it's my problem. Money animals and conscious fml.



Sarah-Jayne said:


> If you can remove the substrate it might be a good idea, kitchen roll works fine, I used to use lino in my vivs easy to clean
> 
> I only ever kept female leopard geckos together and even those can fight I had one that had to live by herself, but males together will fight and males and females together can also fight as the male will be very persistent wanting to breed and the female will not like that. Always easier to keep them alone lol
> 
> If you can take a picture of his vent area we can tell you whether it is male or female  a nice close up would b good!


Removing the substrate in about two minutes! I have ordered some lino but it hasn't arrived yet .

He/she will defo be staying alone - I'll get this phase of keeping out of the way before I consider another for sure lol!

I tried my best on the picture but as I wasn't taking it and he/she wasn't happy about it (struggling) this is the best I could do for now considering the rest of the things he/she has going bad atm I didn't fancy adding to them lol.

General under belly just incase it doesn't look normal to you guys,


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content



















The money shot! lol.










Thanks for all replies, much appreciated.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

It's a couple of years since I kept leopard geckos but I can see a V but no dots on the V and no obviously bulges so I would say that's a female

Put your thermostat probe directly on the hot side of the viv on the floor, it's the floor temperature that is important  it should be 88f at the hot end if I remember rightly


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

This is a boy I bred a couple of years ago, obvious boy bumps 










If yours has those it's a boy, i don't think it does though


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

So are your thermometers reading the air temperature or the ground temperature? You want the ground temperature to be between 90 - 95F (I prefer providing a little on the hot side) otherwise he won't be able to digest food properly.

I would add some branches, bits of wood and fake plants. The more cover the less stressed he will be.

I say 'he' but it looks a little small to sex properly (couldn't say either way atm). His vent area looks fine (no prolapse etc) but I would leave sexing until he's older and more established.

Edit: @ Sarah-Jayne, balls aren't always a sure fire way of sexing. You can get masculine females (due to incubation temperatures) that appear male but are in fact female. I have a particularly ballsy female, but she's definitely a she


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Sarah-Jayne said:


> It's a couple of years since I kept leopard geckos but I can see a V but no dots on the V and no obviously bulges so I would say that's a female
> 
> Put your thermostat probe directly on the hot side of the viv on the floor, it's the floor temperature that is important  it should be 88f at the hot end if I remember rightly





Sarah-Jayne said:


> This is a boy I bred a couple of years ago, obvious boy bumps
> 
> image
> 
> If yours has those it's a boy, i don't think it does though


Thanks it's all sorted now  just need to think about removing the substrate for the kitchen roll.



vgorst said:


> So are your thermometers reading the air temperature or the ground temperature? You want the ground temperature to be between 90 - 95F (I prefer providing a little on the hot side) otherwise he won't be able to digest food properly.
> 
> I would add some branches, bits of wood and fake plants. The more cover the less stressed he will be.
> 
> ...


Ah I will have to wait to sex him/her then in that case 

I will add stuff asap.

I did a really quick vid of him/her in action lol!

Tremper Sunglow Albino Leopard Gecko - YouTube


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

I still say female, there is a V of scales but no pore holes 

I used to breed leopard geckos and I sold them sexed at 10 weeks old

You never know though, I bought a 'male' gecko once that was actually a female lol


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Sarah-Jayne said:


> I still say female, there is a V of scales but no pore holes
> 
> I used to breed leopard geckos and I sold them sexed at 10 weeks old
> 
> You never know though, I bought a 'male' gecko once that was actually a female lol


After seing the picture I tend to agree but I obviously haven't become an expert in the last 5 minutes lol.

I think it's a girl but that was just a hunch I've had. I wasn't dismissing what you said, I just got given two opinions which were both different which is why I said I'll have to wait to sex him/her . He/she is quite lively, in the video you wouldn't think it was ill lol!


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,the liveliness can be decieving.He looks stressed and seems to be bumping into that side a lot.Lets get the temp and the viv sorted and go from there.Can you place the thermometer probe on the hottest part on the ground and get a reading please? You cannot go by what the thermostat is set at,you need to use the thermometer to get a temp reading.

What strength is that u.v tube? It may be too large and too bright for her.


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## russwhite (Aug 11, 2012)

hello mate , trust me if you bought him from wiltons you have rescued him ! its only 10 mins away from me but i wont buy anything out of there very poor care of there animals all round not just the reps ! just a heads up i wouldnt buy anything off them again


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,the liveliness can be decieving.He looks stressed and seems to be bumping into that side a lot.Lets get the temp and the viv sorted and go from there.Can you place the thermometer probe on the hottest part on the ground and get a reading please? You cannot go by what the thermostat is set at,you need to use the thermometer to get a temp reading.
> 
> What strength is that u.v tube? It may be too large and too bright for her.


Hi, tbf that's never happened before, I was arranging things so maybe it scared him/her at the time, usually it's a slow explore mode. The lighting is provided by a Zoo Med 610mm 5 UVB flori labeled 'reptile use only' it's from my old Skink setup but I read somewhere 5UVB was ok - temperature in the hot end at the lowest point directly in the heat is currently 33c.



russwhite said:


> hello mate , trust me if you bought him from wiltons you have rescued him ! its only 10 mins away from me but i wont buy anything out of there very poor care of there animals all round not just the reps ! just a heads up i wouldnt buy anything off them again


It doesn't surprise me to read this. I definitely won't be using them again for pets. I hope they can redeem themselves with being remorseful on the phone tomorrow.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Direct link to Zoo Med Reptisun site for spec;

ReptiSun® 5.0 UVB Fluorescent


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I personaly don't use u.v and wouldn't especialy for albinos,it can affect their eyesight.I hope you get some joy from that shop,it sounds like a bad place.


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Quick summary of the setup

*3 foot wooden viv
*
-Living Earth Electronics Habistat & Ceramic Lamp 
-ProRep heat mat & heat strip the smaller kind (2 sizes at [email protected]).
-Unknown brand digital thermometers 

*Living space
*
-Exo Terra Animal skull 
-Exo Terra Medium hide
-Exo Terra Small Feeding bowl
-Euro Rep Extra Large Feeding Dish for water
-Large branch
-The box he/she came in made into a moist hide

*Substrate *

-Uni Pac Calci sand - soon to be gone for the lino tiling. Haven't taken it out yet because I have messed him/her around enough today with pictures and testing temps ect.

*Temperatures*

-Hot end 32-34c at night it seems to get colder I'm guessing that's because the room temp also goes down.

-Cold end 23-24 in the day 21-22 it fluxuates like the above

*Feeding*

-Small crickets
-Small locusts
-Wax worms

*Feed gut loading*

-EuroRep Cricket Diet Insect Gut Loading Supplement 150g
-Apples

Need to get some calci powder for his dish but they didn't have any in stock at [email protected] or another rep shop I tried.

I think that is everything .


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> I personaly don't use u.v and wouldn't especialy for albinos,it can affect their eyesight.I hope you get some joy from that shop,it sounds like a bad place.


Hi I do also have a non uvb lamp same size from my old tropical fish tank setup which I could use but I didn't want to cause any problems.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

How long did you use the UV tube for with your skinks? If you're unsure or it was for longer than a few months I would just switch it off or replace it.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

You don't want any bright light in their just a dim light bulb will be plenty.I use a 25 watt bulb in the day time and that is plenty bright enough.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

I never used UV light for my leopard geckos, I think it is a matter of preference. There is somebody on here selling coloured lights in strips I just ordered a strip for my crestie tank I will see if I can find the classifieds link for you  

Don't know anything about gutloading supplements either, I used to feed the crickets on porridge oats and a bit of apple 

You don't need a ceramic lamp, only a heat mat. The floor heat is what matters as they absorb heat through their stomachs and this is how they digest some food. You can save yourself some electricity money by removing that. The heat mat should cover 1/3 of the vivarium floor so as to create a gradient to the cool end.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/equipment-classifieds/505550-led-lighting.html

that is the link to the lights, I ordered a strip of blue lights for my crestie tank as the light wont bother the animal it will still think it is night time


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys right, so I'm back due to the circumstances I had to change the little one. I'm going away tonight to Berlin and I couldn't bare the thought of it possibly dying while I'm away - only until Tuesday but alot can happen in that amount of time.

I didn't change him/her over lightly, I asked alot of questions and they said my setup wasn't the cause and that he/she was part of a new batch. They seemed pretty helpful in the end. I asked them to make sure they take care of him and they said they'd monitor him in his own viv and do anything necessary to sort out the issues.

Wait until you see the size of the male which I now have which was in the same tank - i'd imagine this guy was the culprit for the condition of the other.

I'll get some pictures up later as I'm a little busy with packing atm. I really didn't want to have to exchange him/her like it was an item of clothing but I think in a way it was for the best. Especially since it was ill and I will be away and no one in my house would have a clue bar feeding.

Overall, they seemed ok and although he was in bad condition the others I saw weren't anything like him/her. They showed me every Leo they had.

Don't hate me for having the exchange I'm gutted it had to be that way and I genuinely loved the little one for the very short amount of time I had him/her.

The one I have now I'll need to ID but it's definitely a male and quite abit older. They said the other was a CB13 so would be small but they agreed the poop and weight was out.

I'll also look in to these strips you have all suggested, once again thanks.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Im sorry but having looked at the condition of the original animal and the poop pictures I wouldnt have accepted an animal that had been anywhere near the one you have returned. I would urge you to get an urgent poop screen via Pinmore Animal Lab Services. Parasite load or worse (eg crypto) would easily have passed between the two geckos and you may well have just swapped one problem animal for another. Unfortunately leos can look well with parasite loads but when stressed by things like a move to a new enclosure the parasite gains the upper hand and overwhelms the host.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,I think you did the right thing challenging the shop but as said above you may still have issues with this one that has been with the poorly one.I hope they are going to keep it on its own and take proper care of it.Get rid of the sand asap and it would be a wise idea to get the new ones poop sent off and checked for a full range of tests.

I personaly would of asked for my money back and gone elsewhere,preferably to a breeder but I certainly will not judge you on your decision.


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## russwhite (Aug 11, 2012)

just anothrr quick one if its possible if your not gonna buy from a breeder go to scales and fangs in southend the quality and care of the animals there is very good. i would buy animals from them and its anothrr 10 mins up the road. in wiltons iv seen up to ten baby leopard geckos in a 1 foot by 1 foot tank i kid you not!!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Mal said:


> Im sorry but having looked at the condition of the original animal and the poop pictures I wouldnt have accepted an animal that had been anywhere near the one you have returned. I would urge you to get an urgent poop screen via Pinmore Animal Lab Services. Parasite load or worse (eg crypto) would easily have passed between the two geckos and you may well have just swapped one problem animal for another. Unfortunately leos can look well with parasite loads but when stressed by things like a move to a new enclosure the parasite gains the upper hand and overwhelms the host.


Maybe it wasn't a good idea but I got the distinct impression I was lucky to get another let alone my money back. They seemed helpful but obviously they say one thing and the forum says another. I trust what you guys say because not only do most breed but nothing compares to hands on experience with animals especially from owners, the shop is a shop.

He is going to need alot of handling to get him tame. I don't mind this because one of my Skinks, (Turbo) was the same. Atm this guy will go for you, I've breifely stroked him but now he's in the dark and I'm going to let him do his thing before I start messing with him if you get what I mean.

The tank light wasn't on for this picture and he looks far more impressive in the flesh!



















I'll get some better pictures when he's all settled in, in a few days. The shop wasn't sure what morph he is he looks quite dark in the pictures but is lighter but the colours are more vibrant than the other little guy.

This guy above was kept with my old one and another of the same size so basically two tiny ones and a big male. Could the other guy have just been super stressed from the fighting and then moving?

I'll remove this substrate when he has calmed down atm he is very skittish and as I was putting water in he shook the end of his tale as if to warn for tail drop. Well that's what I took it as anyway so he is now in darkness hunting which is good.

I'll also have to get this test done when I get back to make sure he's all good. Definitely a male, the guy showed me in the shop after being bitten lol.



littlefoot said:


> Hi,I think you did the right thing challenging the shop but as said above you may still have issues with this one that has been with the poorly one.I hope they are going to keep it on its own and take proper care of it.Get rid of the sand asap and it would be a wise idea to get the new ones poop sent off and checked for a full range of tests.
> 
> I personaly would of asked for my money back and gone elsewhere,preferably to a breeder but I certainly will not judge you on your decision.


Like I said to Mal got the impression money back was an option, I had the choice of any Leo in the shop and decided since they all looked brighter and healthier I would take one. I would have prefered to raise the other little guy in to a beauty but like I said before it would have got worse or die knowing my luck when I got back.

I may not know everything about Leo's but I do genuinely love and care for my animals, this little guys going to be my best friend one day. Sad I know but there you go lol!

I also hope they don't let him rot it's on my conscience atm. Did I do the right thing I don't know? All I can say is the above that maybe just maybe they will keep to their word and help him get better. I really hope so. They seemed ok so hopefully they will.



russwhite said:


> just anothrr quick one if its possible if your not gonna buy from a breeder go to scales and fangs in southend the quality and care of the animals there is very good. i would buy animals from them and its anothrr 10 mins up the road. in wiltons iv seen up to ten baby leopard geckos in a 1 foot by 1 foot tank i kid you not!!


If this ones ok, maybe in the future I'll get a female from there, I'll definitely take a look. I do agree some of the tanks are small but many pet shops keep animals in tight cages ect because they're temporary. I'm not saying I agree with it just that I have seen many pet stores do it.

Cheers for all replies!


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## Mr Chad (Feb 25, 2013)

He looks much healthier than the other, but as you've said get the tests done asap just to be on the safe side.

I'm not one for disturbing the leo when he's settling in but i'd take the time and get the sand out asap.

As for the tail thing its very unlikely it was a warning of a tail drop, more of a territory thing - from what I know they have to be under real fear and pressure before they'd drop it.

Hope this one has a long happy and healthy life.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Definitely much healthier, he's a tremper albino 

He was probably bullying the other ones, but best to have a test done just in case! 

If you do get a female whatever you do don't put it in with the male, keep them separate. You may already know that though!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Mr Chad said:


> He looks much healthier than the other, but as you've said get the tests done asap just to be on the safe side.
> 
> I'm not one for disturbing the leo when he's settling in but i'd take the time and get the sand out asap.
> 
> ...


Yeah I will do, yeah I mean it's not the time thing it's literally the fact I don't want him to freak out and stop eating or hurt himself.

Ah that explains that then! He's already been hunting ect so appetite is good
and obviously already owns the place if he's defending it lol!

If I have anything to do with it he will he's absolutely gorgeous even if he does need to be tamed! 



Sarah-Jayne said:


> Definitely much healthier, he's a tremper albino
> 
> He was probably bullying the other ones, but best to have a test done just in case!
> 
> If you do get a female whatever you do don't put it in with the male, keep them separate. You may already know that though!


Agreed that's what drew me to him, that and the fact I have a sneaky suspicion that they might just plonk my old one back in with him so I thought I'd do him a favour and let him at least find some solace knowing that he won't be bullied by this guy!

I wasn't going to put them together  however one day when I have more experience ect under my belt maybe I'll let them breed if they seem content but this isn't something I plan on doing anytime soon nor would I just jump in to it lol.

When he's all settled in I'll start him his own thread and let this one dwindle.

Once again though guys thanks for your words of wisdom, I won't be going anywhere and will update the new thread when I start it.


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