# Rats eating their pups? and small litters?



## kaosNW (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi I started breeding feeder rats a while ago and its going ok, apart from alot of the pups seem to be getting eaten the longer I leave them in the tubs with the adults!

Basically I have 2 tubs (followed a thread on here I think on how to build a rat breeding rack) with 1.4 rats in each. I modified the design so they have a mesh lid and then a 2 story cage attached to the roof to give them more room/air 

But the issue is that the rats seem to be having litters of around 5-8 (seem to be getting smaller recently!  ) and it was fine when I was culling them as pinkies. But as I have been leaving them in the tanks to get bigger now they seem to be getting killed! e.g. I had a litter of 7, left them in there and 3 were left after about 2 weeks, they grew fur etc and now (3-4 weeks later only 1 is left!) 

Any ideas why this is? OR why the litters seem to be small?

only things I can think of are:
Litters are getting small because the rats are young/too old? (not sure how old they are). Or due to the cold weather?

I read the pups often get eaten due to a low protein diet, I am feeding them a good high protein dog food (wagg) and also give them other bits and pieces all the time

Could this be the problem? e.g. I give them lots of veg/fruit/bread/cereal etc alongside the dog food, They seem to much prefer the 'other' stuff I give them and eat it over the dog food. Could the rats be choosing to eat the better tasting stuff and leaving the dog food which is resulting in them lacking protein?

Is it best to give them little/no other bits such as bread/veg etc?

Please help!

PS. Im bedding them on wood shavings and newspaper and give them cardboard tubes/plastic tubs incase anyone wanted to know!


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## shazratuk (Oct 7, 2010)

Hi
I dont know anything about breeding feeder rats but have been a pet rat breeder for 17 years. I have never had any cases of babies being eaten as they get older, only in the first few days when maybe one or two might die and the mother will eat them to stop predators smelling the rotting flesh.... although I usually find them and remove them before this. I have found that the average litter is around 8-12, although I recently had one of 17 and they all lived and I now have one of 3. I would guess that the reason for dwindling litter sizes is constant breeding as if the mother rat is continually bred then I would think that her reserves will drop and so will her litter sizes.
I have seen a set up where the buck was moved around to the does so that they were able to concentrate their energies on the babies that they had for a while before getting pregnant again and the litter sizes I believe stayed reasonable.
Dont know if this will help at all and sure that some others will be able to give better information on your particular problems...


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## kaosNW (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks alot for your reply, I have been thinking about it and I think the recent cold snap could have something to do with it! e.g. the pups could be dieing in the cold and being eaten to stop them attracting predators like you said

also does it sound possible that due to them always having the choice of what to eat, they are eating the tastier (less nutritious) stuff and leaving the nutritious dog food? (causing a lack of protein) my friend advised me to drop all the extra food, and just give them dog food and the occasional treat of bread/scraps etc 

So I was thinking I could start giving them 90% dog food and the odd veg/bread etc every morning - Just enough so they eat it all and have to eat more dog food. ATM their is enough other food on the top all the time so they ALWAYS have a choice

Also the new litter of pups seemed to be drinking off the same mother that was feeding the older rat pups, Does that seem strange (like shes stealing all the babies?!?) or is it normal? I doubt she could have had another litter 2-3 weeks after given birth??


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## shazratuk (Oct 7, 2010)

When I kept two mothers together the more dominant female stole the babies from the other one and raised them all. Does can go into season immediately after giving birth so technically could have babies 24 days later but I am sure that this would give you smaller litters and also smaller babies s the mother would not be recovered enough and the first litter would still be feeding when the next were born.... obviously depending upon the size that you are feeding.
As for the food, I feed a huge variety to mine and they will pick what they like the most and then eat the rest when forced. I feed most days but at least once and sometimes twice a week I dont feed so it forces them to eat the things that they dont like so much. I dont think that the choice of food would contribute to the babies being eaten, if anything it would be the opposite, but you are probably right with the idea that the cold killed them and then they were eaten, which is a perfectly normal behaviour. Perhaps you should give them lots of bedding to try and keep them warmer.


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## Dee_Williams (Aug 15, 2010)

i used to breed rats for the pet shops, they can be prone to eating their babies if they are disturbed and also like said in a previous post if they are constantly bred. try to take the male away and give them a break. try cat food, the actual meat pouches, and dog milk (lactol) to build them back up. 

bread and veggies is just a filler for them so they shouldn't get it every day. a good basic rat food wil probably help keep them in better condition and they generally aren't that much dearer than dog food. dog food is really a treat thing. 
Pet Rat Information Sheet - all you need for happy healthy pet rats

also try looking at this link. i know it is for pets but the theory is the same. they need to be healthy to be good breeders and to be breeding good quality offspring that will benefit your pets.

i also wonder if they have maybe lost their mothering ability through the babies always being taken away..............


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## richardgodd (Feb 25, 2011)

It sounds like it could be a combination of stressed does from all the breeding or possibly the bucks attacking and killing the young which aren't theirs, also occurs with other animals, in order to only pass on their genes.

Not whether you're keeping them as one large colony but might be better to breed them in cycles so they can rest and build up protein levels!


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## baitman (Jan 13, 2011)

I think your problem is too many females, my ratio is 1 male with 2 females, never had any probs.....my last 2 litters were 11 and 14


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## Royalmad (Aug 19, 2009)

Defo stress


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