# Tapole tea.



## marcuswinner1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Just thought I would mention some recent findings regarding tadpole tea that some of you might find interesting.

Having mentioned previously to a few of you that I have had problems for months getting my Tricolor Tads to reach morphing and when they do they have sls I read the caresheet by Berksmike who seems to rear loads of these with no probs and realised I was doing pretty much everything he was except using tadpole tea. The last batch of decent eggs I got from my Tri's have now fully morphed and are all perfect with no sls and no fungal problems whilst tads.

On top of this I got a few surplus Leuc tads last year from Morg, all of which succumbed to fungal problems at some stage in the rearing process. I have discussed using tadpole tea with him and he said he had had no fungal problems just using plain water.

Well this year I have got some more from him and the latest tads I picked up were all in very good health (in plain water) I got them home,thinking I would change them to tadpole tea anyway the next day but they were obviously fine in the water he uses. This is where it gets interesting as the next day one was dead and covered in fluffy white fungus whilst another had two large white ulcers and looked as though it had no chance, the others looked fine but were in the same water and I assumed that they would soon show symptoms:bash:.

In a last ditch effort to solve the problem I transfered them to individual cups of tadpole tea and all (nearly a week later) are doing fine, even the one with the massive open wounds is now almost healed. in the past this sort of thing has taken out whole clutches in hours!

My thoughts are that there must be some sort of airborne fungal spores in my house that Morg, and many others don't have in theirs as the water was fine at his house but riddled with fungus after a few hours in mine.

What this also shows is how good the tadpole tea really is at controlling such fungus.

This may go to show why some people swear by it but others feel it just isn't needed....As for me, i'm sure you can tell which camp I am in!

(To clarify, my tadpole tea is made by pouring a kettle full of boiling water into a bowl containing several Oak leaves and a couple of Alder cones then leaving until the coulor is like weak tea)

Marcus.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

We have had one issue with mouth fungus Marcus i documented it on our thread,it took out everything.the reason: i thought our oakleaves were getting old so stopped using them.the only time we have not used a tea we had issues,i think your logic is bang on.since then we have been using a tea based on aldercone and a bit of oakleaf,so near in make up,never one single case of fungus since period.
i could go further but i don't need to ....nail on the head mate
Stu


----------



## marcuswinner1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Cheers Stu, what really suprised me was the fact that already affected tads were healed when switched to the tea in time. Useful to know!


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

marcuswinner1 said:


> Cheers Stu, what really suprised me was the fact that already affected tads were healed when switched to the tea in time. Useful to know!


alder and Indain almond not totally sure about oak contain known fungicides mate:2thumb:
cool what nature provides if ya look
Stu


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

When I was having probs with sls in my Anthonyi`s I tried using tea and it made no difference.
They mostly morphed out with no probs apart from they all had sls.
I played about with uv as well with no real conclusions.
The sls just stopped one day and from there on all tads were morphing out pretty good.
I`ve not bothered with tadpole tea since and I can only think of one tadpole with mouth fungus since, (3 weeks ago), and only one froglet with slight sls, about 4 months ago.
All around the country the water quality ranges from excellent to disgusting but, personally I think there is another cause, which we don`t yet know about.
Certainly what happened with Marcus is interesting.
I have found though that once a tad dies the fungus appears pretty damn quick (especially if the water is anything other than cold) so I think it fair to discount finding one with fungus the next day.
Maybe it was the stress from travelling which took them and certainly the ones with ulcers might well have been cured by the tea`s anti bacterial properties.
It would of course be great if we could nail down the reasons for sls as it hits everyone at some stage.

Mike


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I stopped getting deaths when I started using a filtered tadpole system.

I started using tadpole tea later, just for the heck of it. Can't see how it would effect SLS either way to be honest, I'd say parental nutrition and tadpole nutrition would have a bigger impact upon this. My main reason for using tadpole tea is it helps to reduce the toxicity of ammonia by naturally reducing the pH. The lower the pH the more ammonia turns into harmless ammonium, giving my filter more time to clear it out, especially when adding more tadpoles. Ammonia is far more likely to be harmful, at the least from stressing the animal. One thing I have learned, a stressed animal is more prone to infection, and more likely to have a negative outcome.

I've yet to get SLS yet, although by the same token I've only morphed 6 froglets so far, 5 tinctorius Regina and 1 French Guyana vent. I still reckon nutrition is important. A good diet and supplementation for the parents, and good variety in diet for the tads. My tads get a mix of TetraMin baby, ENT Dendro Vit tadpole food and GenChem BioMax No1 baby shrimp food (as in for feeding baby shrimp).

Ade


----------



## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

I've been breeding dart frogs for over 20 years on and off and haven't had SLS since the days i first started! It drove me mad trying to understand why this was happening and also bearing in mind the inability to be able to get most of the things that are now available to us via the internet.
What i came across to out rule SLS was focusing on all fronts...made sure the adult frogs were getting the proper Vits through live foods...i always add a bit of D3 vits to my live food which is also dusted, used a light output that gave natural D3 in a tube....did all this and realised after getting SLS again that the frogs themselves weren't the main cause of SLS... so i concentrated on the raising of the tads, I found the water quality and the temp also paid a major factor as well as the tads diet...By using the same lighting as i do in the Vivs making sure the water temp never drops below 70f helped considerably also a very good diet of tadpole food which i got from a breeder in Holland...I've always used tadpole tea in the form created from indian almond leaves, used distilled filtered water with a small piece of the almond leaf placed with each tadpole. regular weekly changes of water and hey presto no more SLS. 
I'm truly convinced that the 5% uva lighting is the one major factor that can help reduce SLS... Hope this gives you an idea and helps.:2thumb:


----------



## marcuswinner1 (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks for the comments guys,

To be honest I wasn't sure weather the tea had any benefit regarding the sls but it was something that I tried with the Tri's alongside better and more regular supliments for the parents, better tadpole diet and a bulb above the tads for some increased uv.

I do feel that whatever the reason for the regular fungal and or bacterial problems that I have had over the past 12 monthes, the tea totally solves the problem though.

Marcus


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I blamed fluctuating temps for the tads I lost Marcus. When they were in individual cups I had no control over temps. My tadpole system however has an aquarium heater set to 24 degrees C in it. Growth and development are faster as well in there. The tea probably helps a bit though, alder cone tannins are known to act in this way, not read the same for oak but have certanily read it for Indian almond leaves.

Ade


----------



## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

Water temp is a major factor in the good health of tadpoles as is light in a form of low uv... Years ago I spoke to a marine aquarist who explained the health of fish would be very poorly with no light whatsoever used for an aquarium.. Also pointed out the benefits of UVA for good calcium structure which is the main reasons for SLS. The tannins from Indian almond leaves gives properties which is essential to maintain healthy fresh water fish as is all the tannins from the leaves in the water of the amazon...with the high quality tads foods these days fortified with all the vits required then tadpole health should always be improved... Some people have found no need to use teas but in my experience it produces health tads so why leave it out? The benefits are there and for the cheap cost then in my opinion it's worth it. I also use tadpole tea in the water that is used to spray my vivs and this improves also the plant growth.


----------



## dexter35yrs (May 22, 2011)

*tadpole tea*

i had similar experience to marcus with my highland tricolors couldnt get to the morph stage - my tads were in a heated container some with water others with tadpole tea all with no success and i could nt figure it out - so all tricolor tads were placed in the original viv which was surplus as i moved parents to bigger viv - now ive had two froglets out of the water in the last week both appear to be doing fine (3 more to go + 4 tads in with the parents both have tadpole tea in their pools...


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

interesting stuff here Marcus,i was referring to fungal problems with the tea im not sure about the teas having any effect on sls,there might well be a tie in with vit a and possibly uvb.Bluefrogs your one of the few folks i have come across that uses uvb over tadpoles.We use it some warned us against it some not. Several of the guys i know had problems morphing out mysties so i felt i had nothing to loose using uvb,how much affect it has i can't qualify,what i do know is so far we have good froglets coming out. There might also be a tie in to saturated carbon filters with sls. For sure sls is awful for anyone to go through and if all these little things add up to fewer folks seeing it its all good in my view.
As far as the vit A goes a note to folks that bi monthly dosing is what i've read about,just in case someone goes overboard.
Like most things i guess,everything right... good fresh vits supps good grub good light the right water temps good water are all going to add up to good froglets,anything not right problems will arise. Its going to be interesting personally over the next few weeks for us, we have little leucs tads with big strong back legs,their parents first tads suffered from this awful problem it will be fascinating to see how ours morph out,first eggs from young frogs an all 
Stu


----------



## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

Trust me Stu the lighting over the tadpoles was highly recommended by fish aquarist explaining to me the benefits it has to fish..this was also confirmed by a top breeder that I meet years ago. The results speak for themselves and I wouldnt have it any other way now...in my opinion bigger tads and healthy froglets.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Bluefrogs said:


> Trust me Stu the lighting over the tadpoles was highly recommended by fish aquarist explaining to me the benefits it has to fish..this was also confirmed by a top breeder that I meet years ago. The results speak for themselves and I wouldnt have it any other way now...in my opinion bigger tads and healthy froglets.


I've nothing to doubt that mate,but i've a hell of alot that says your right,ha i've just been taking pics of some.Honestly i doubt i'll ever rear tads without the lights now,buddy i'm early on in this dart lark,but along long time looking out for animals so my thoughts must always carry that beginners caution,when i'm chatting to folks. Some highly learned guys said against the uvb,so its appropriate that i tell that side.As the simple stockman that i am i'm getting what i want little frogs coming out bouncing around good legs,what i see with my own eyes after I've done my homework is what i work too,there is no way i can say other than your advice is sound and the advice given to you was sound,
best
Stu


----------



## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

I totally agree with what you are saying Stu and I also say to people use what works best for you because if it ain't broke it dont need fixing. I'd never ever say I know it all because even after all these years I'm still learning too. Stu you are doing a fantastic job already from what I can see and your success with breeding speaks for itself.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Bluefrogs said:


> I totally agree with what you are saying Stu and I also say to people use what works best for you because if it ain't broke it dont need fixing. I'd never ever say I know it all because even after all these years I'm still learning too. Stu you are doing a fantastic job already from what I can see and your success with breeding speaks for itself.


thats kind dude thankyou! Part of the appeal of this is the learning.if we are lucky enough to have 20 yrs at this i can't see other than that constant learning,thats the joy of this.Another fantastic point,what works for me might not work elsewhere,its all those intangibles,one has to find a method for oneself i guess,and then slowly perfect it.
Early success with the auratus and excidobates may well need modification for ranitomeya,or even in the tinc clade itself,ha we'll know abit more once those leucs come out,shaz and i are getting to see little nuances of difference,but not much to change within the method apart from that key difference at morph out with those little mysties,its cool hunting down these slight nuances,watch watch think react:bash::lol2:
Stu


----------



## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

I guess that's the beauty of dartfrogs. Pretty much the Tincs, leucomelas and auratus are the same when it comes to care and breeding...but when you consider thumbnails well pretty much everything goes out the window. small foods broms needed in the vivs but tadpole care left to the adults to feed...Then you have the phyllobates, as for care they are the same as Tincs etc yet the tads are better raised together in one container as opposed to individuals...Stu this mate is why it's so addictive! the knowledge the learning goes on and on. Then theres the Vivs... plant care water care how to grow moss etc then how to culture livefoods. I'm sure you get what i mean Stu :loll: I've been reding your post and i have to say mate i was nowhere near where you are now at such a short time...your homework is top of the class. keep it up mate:notworthy:


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm actually rearing vents (ranitomeya variabiillis) in the exact same way as tincs, and getting much better results.  I just use smaller cups in the tad system.

Ade


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I`ll probably just cause a wobble in the system but, I keep my tads at room temps so they get warm when heating is on and get cold when it`s off.
I also don`t use any lights above them, only residual light from the vivs beside them.

Mike


----------



## marcuswinner1 (Sep 24, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> I`ll probably just cause a wobble in the system but, I keep my tads at room temps so they get warm when heating is on and get cold when it`s off.
> I also don`t use any lights above them, only residual light from the vivs beside them.
> 
> Mike


 
The main theme here Mike seems to be: If it works for you, keep doing it!


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Yup, I have no dedicated lighting over my tad system, just a clear sheet of twin wall polycarb so ambient light can get in.

Regarding temps, I think my problem was big fluctuations from the bag door been left open. They were in our back room, which ajoins the kitchen which is where the back door is. Don't have the problem with my vivs, but was losing tons of tads until I got the system sorted. I'd check them daily to find them dead in their pots and funghus setting in on the corpses.

Ade


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Your right about that Marcus.
My intention is only to point out that maybe the problem is not caused by what people are thinking.
The more variables posted the more people can read and think about and maybe one day actually find the correct answer.
NOT that i`m saying anyone is wrong, there are just too many variables.
Ade, I think i`m right in saying you have a system like Stu for tadpoles ?
One day I hope to have one myself when I get organised as it has to be a big benefit for the tads.
Something I neglected to mention is that where I keep my tads, is in front of a large radiator so when heating is on the board (1/2 inch ply) they sit on gets all toasty.
It might sound a bit extreme/rough in some eyes but, it works.

Mike


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

My system isn't as polished:-










Quick and easy to make though, and does the job. 

Ade


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Ade
If you see my car it`s in need of a wash most of the time.
If I wash and polish it it doesn`t go any better.
But it runs real well regardless.
Same for your system, it does what it`s supposed to do and who cares what it looks like.
I have a large tub lying here which looks same as yours and as it happens I was thinking of using it for my tads.
So if I get around to using it then we can be unpolished together and leave the fancy stuff to Stu :lol2:

Mike


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Ade
> If you see my car it`s in need of a wash most of the time.
> If I wash and polish it it doesn`t go any better.
> But it runs real well regardless.
> ...


all around me gets pollished i'm like your car mike:lol2:
there is alot of funny brilliance about to night Ade's just had us in stiches too
awsome guys cheers:2thumb::notworthy:
mike i don't mean to make stuff fancy i just try to think what will work....and then SH*T happens,and sunddenly i realise i'm sanding me 90sommit bit of glass:mf_dribble:
amen to marcus's post.
best to ya all
Stu


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Memo to ones self.
When next down near Stu`s place pop in for a car wash :whistling2:

Mike


----------

