# Amazon Milk Frogs - Two Dead Froggies :(



## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

2 of my 3 tiny froglets have died! I have no idea why, can't understand it at all. I am concerned that using heat bulbs had something to do with it, so have bought a huge heat mat that covers one side of the tank instead, and have put it on a thermostat. Only problem with this is that it doesnt seem to be getting hot enough! 
Stress!  
I have an exo terra canopy that had 2 25 watt night heat bulbs in it but I'm worried that those bulbs arent good for them as the humidity gets reduced so much? The last little froglet has been eating plenty (is quite round) and seems fine ... any ideas?  

How do you guys heat your frogs? I need it to get to 25C ish but the heat mat just doesnt seem to be kicking the heat up enough. Humidity is fine and they have plenty to eat, i dont understand it  They've had dechlorinated water in their little pond so i cant think it's that which has caused the problem.

To get enough heat I might need a combination of the bulbs and the heat mat, but then only one of them can be on the thermostat i guess??

Thanks x


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## Scubadiver (Jun 13, 2014)

Oh dear, not good news! They looked in really good shape in the photos on your other thread. Were they just fine one minute and dead the next?
What temps/humidity were you getting? A combination of bulbs and heatmat is fine but they do need to be on a thermostat. You can have them both controlled by the same thermostat, yes.


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

I know Scubadiver we're so sad  They were absolutely fine, hopping around eating and then next minute dead! The temperatures were around 24C during the day with a slight increase closer to the bulbs/mat - the humidity was usually 60 - 70% with slight dips to 50 in the night. 
To combine the heatmat and bulbs on the same thermostat can I just use one of those multiplugs? I'm not sure if i did that where I would then put the heat sensor as the heat mat is on one side of the glass and the bulbs in a canopy ontop.

Thanks for your help, my local reptile shop (not where I got the froglets from) said he has had SO many customers coming in upset that their tiny froglets had died. He said they're very delicate and that I probably did nothing wrong which was comforting.


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## Scubadiver (Jun 13, 2014)

That's so strange! I've bred Milk Frogs lots of times and never had problems with the young. I'd say they were very hardy and really not delicate at all! 
It's also really weird that they were eating and hopping around one minute and dead the next, animals just don't die like that. If they are ill or have an infection you would expect a slow decline and lack of appetite. A sudden death points to something other than temperature (unless extreme) and humidity. Did they both die at the same time? And how is the remaining one?


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

They sort of declined over a few hours and then died  The remaining one seems to be going the same way as they did, has suddenly gone very thin and lifeless - he's currently in a little tub with plenty of crickets so that he doesnt have to go far to get food. The other two died a day apart. 
x


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## Yorkie6013 (Dec 15, 2014)

Did the person that you got them from have any others left? If so, have you tried contacting them to see if the others have had any problems? Its only a stab in the dark, but you might be trying to find a cause which is completely out of your hands if any others have gone the same way.


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

Yorkie6013 - The reptile shop i got them from have 2 that are apparently doing fine, so I've no idea whats gone on  x


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## Yorkie6013 (Dec 15, 2014)

really stupid question time, do you have a uvb lamp for them?


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## Scubadiver (Jun 13, 2014)

Well something is clearly amiss, honestly Milk Frogs are not a delicate species so something untoward has happened somewhere along the line. A rapid decline over a few hours followed by death sounds like an event has led to this. Is there any chance at all that insecticide or other aerosol product has been used in the room where they're kept? Or anything along similar lines?


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

Yes Yorkie they had a UVB bulb. 
Scubadiver that's what I thought. Nope nothing of the sort, my bunnies and crestie are in the same room and my bunnies sneeze if anything gets sprayed in here so no chance. x


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## Yorkie6013 (Dec 15, 2014)

firstly i dont own frogs and tbh have no interest in them apart from finding the setups people have for them fascinating so anything im saying in here is only what ive picked up by reading things in general. 

So as it sounds like a new setup, is it definitely a uvb lamp you have and not a uvc. Please dont take it as me doubting you, i just remember seeing a thread about someone using one in error for a turtle and it causing problems.


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

Yes Yorkie its definitely a UVB  I just checked in case I was having a silly moment. Not at all, I appreciate any help and advice!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

my local reptile shop has had massive issues with milk frogs dying, either later in their youth or when folks get them home. they arnt regarded as a delicate species but all frogs can be effected greatly by their 'habitats' or surroundings. the shop i visit reckon their issue lies in the fact that the temps/humidity in their shop are possibly causing it because they are kept at x because its mainly snakes, lizards etc. 

again i think they might be being harsh on themselves, but these things do cause issues. i personally think there's something going on in the breeding of milkies because my memory of the last yr has been of a fair few people losing milkies and usually within hrs of getting them home


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## Scubadiver (Jun 13, 2014)

That's strange, my experience has been quite the opposite! I've bred hundreds which I've sold to many dozens of people on this very forum without a single report of any such issue. Many people have got back in touch to tell me how well they're doing and many have bought more weeks or months later. 
I can't vouch for other breeders but I do make a point of never selling any which aren't well grown on and I've never couriered any over night. 
If the problems are happening in shops it could be as simple as keeping them incorrectly. Many places seem to think all frogs should be kept the same as dart frogs. Milk Frogs need a large water bowl of treated water changed EVERY DAY. Something as simple as this not being done could be the reason for deaths. The build up of ammonia and bacteria will finish these guys off quickly.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

thats kinda where my point was heading, and it's nothing against reptile shops. But personally unless your local reptile shop is amazing, i'd always suggest getting them from a private breeder. Some shops will buy excess from hobbyists, but i've heard tales of a couple of 'breeders' who pump frogs out in europe and ship em to shops etc


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## annaw1 (May 31, 2011)

Meefloaf - Thanks for the reply. One of my other local reptile shops said that they've had loads of customers come in having the same issues ... so at least I'm not alone lol  

Scubadiver - Yeah I've just no idea what could have gone wrong!  they had a nice big pond that was emptied and cleaned daily to stop the toxins from their skin building up and poisoning them, with treated water. Hmm!

On the upside, my last little guy (Pluto) seems to be picking up a bit and is doing better (doesnt look at deaths door like he did this morning!) x


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