# Shingleback Skinks.



## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

Yep. I said it. Prepare for lolz. This is a species I'm interested in, related to the Bluetongued Skink.

I've asked around, I've put out feelers, I've had some friends round and a few have laughed, a few have given offers of where they can find them. Apparently getting one is a bit like buying a new car, you'll be paying in monthly installments. I remember seeing one breeder somewhere, advertising one for £4000. I laughed, I cried, I walked away. xD

Anyway, simply for interests sake, if anyone knows any breeders of Shinglebacks, how much they would cost, or any places they can be bought from, resulting legalities/red tape etc, please let me know. I've been interested in this species for years and its one I'd like to try on someday. Albeit when people arent attempting highway robbery with them.

I've seen them sold online once or twice, but the communication from such websites have been very, very poor. : (


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## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

I would love these also!!!!

But again, I've only seen them around the £4000 mark!

I would never be able to afford that haha!


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## NBLADE (Apr 11, 2007)

there used to be a breeder on this site, can't remember the prices though


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/liza...hingleback-northern-eastern-blue-tongues.html

try contacting them


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

A local pet store said that they can get one for say, a grand. But still, that's pretty bad. If they were seriously a grand I think I'd eventually buy a breeding pair over the course of say, five years, and sell the young on for say, the £500 mark, simply out of spite of greedy breeders.

But again, its all a matter of getting ahold of them to begin with. Aussie's totalitarian border control and all that. : /


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## NBLADE (Apr 11, 2007)

Redsquire said:


> A local pet store said that they can get one for say, a grand. But still, that's pretty bad. If they were seriously a grand I think I'd eventually buy a breeding pair over the course of say, five years, and sell the young on for say, the £500 mark, simply out of spite of greedy breeders.
> 
> But again, its all a matter of getting ahold of them to begin with. Aussie's totalitarian border control and all that. : /


 

yea they are still expensive, well quite cheap if you compare them to royal morphs lol, but considerig they are everywhere in australia and are really common, australia could help the rest of the world out and send a few pairs into the pet trade lol


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Redsquire said:


> A local pet store said that they can get one for say, a grand. But still, that's pretty bad. If they were seriously a grand I think I'd eventually buy a breeding pair over the course of say, five years, and sell the young on for say, the £500 mark, simply out of spite of greedy breeders.
> 
> But again, its all a matter of getting ahold of them to begin with. Aussie's totalitarian border control and all that. : /



I don't think the price of these animals in the UK reflects the greed of breeders. I am under the impression that they don't breed every year, and have a small clutch size which maintains the rarity of the species. Bearing in mind the restricted number of animals it also makes sence from a captive breeding point of view to swap animals between breeders rather than remove animals from the gene pool by selling them.

That said it is not impossible to get hold of them IF you are prepared to pay their value, which is, as with everything, dictated by how much the buyer is prepared to pay...

Andy


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

don't they live in male/female pairs?
although i read somewhere that they also don't they mate for life in the wild two, a monogamous lizard?

as said the rarity reflects the price, as with other lizard morphs, the rarer the morph the higher the price.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

sum one on here called sean uk i think breeds them and advertised a pair of these for 3grand last year i think.


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## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

they give birth to live babies, only one i think it is (EDIT: i lie, i think its a couple actually! they are big when born )

They pair for life bt do not live together all the time, instead they find each other out and just kinda share territory i think it was.

and i think your right, they don't breed all the time etc maybo only once a year or so if im correct :blush:

lovely lizards!!!

david attenborough(sp?) did that reptile series and they were on it


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## sailfinman (May 18, 2009)

right they can give birth to up two 3 it was on life in cold blood they only spend half the year together but find each other every year and stay that way for life...
if there aint anyone over here breeding them or in europe then you wont get them as there illigal to import from ozz...


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

Bradders100 said:


> they give birth to live babies, only one i think it is (EDIT: i lie, i think its a couple actually! they are big when born )
> 
> They pair for life bt do not live together all the time, instead they find each other out and just kinda share territory i think it was.
> 
> ...


Ah that's where i might have seen it, i know i either read it in a book or saw a program on it, i bought the atenborough box set 'life in cold blood', not bad but not many tokays in it grrrrrr lmfao


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Redsquire said:


> Yep. I said it. Prepare for lolz. This is a species I'm interested in, related to the Bluetongued Skink.
> 
> I've asked around, I've put out feelers, I've had some friends round and a few have laughed, a few have given offers of where they can find them. Apparently getting one is a bit like buying a new car, you'll be paying in monthly installments. I remember seeing one breeder somewhere, advertising one for £4000. I laughed, I cried, I walked away. xD
> 
> ...


It not robbery is't rarity.

1)Only found in Australia and they don't Export.
2)First you have find a male female pair.And sexing is't easy.
3)They only breed every 2'nd or 3'ed year year.
4)They only have a max of 3 young most often 1.

The more proven about the skinks the more the price can be.Example proven sex,proven breeder,Sexed pairs'etc.

Your best bet is a unproven animal.Would be the lowist price but you still talking around £1000.

Due to this they hold there price.

I'd love shingle backs but i wouldn't buy just one i don't see the point on buying one for a £1000 just as i pet.I'd have to buy a pair to try and breed them i can buy one but two turns out to high.It's just gutting:lol2:. 

Much like these little critters below.Due to them having more young i hope they become more availible in my life time but i doutb it.

Centrailians:mf_dribble:.
kingsnake.com Classifieds: Centrailian/Multifasciata


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## AmyW (Aug 24, 2009)

gazz said:


> It not robbery is't rarity.
> 
> 1)Only found in Australia and they don't Export.
> 2)First you have find a male female pair.And sexing is't easy.
> ...


T. multifasciata :flrt::flrt:


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

Between one and three LIVE babies on average. Basically guaranteed livestock, no messy egg carry-on.

Secondly, these guys are everywhere in australia. I recognize that Australia has its totalitarian border laws it has to stick to, if simply to help the eradication and extinction of its own native species (Can you tell I didn't like this political move yet? Haha.) but to be honest, their by no means rare. Rare in the market, perhaps.

Velvet worms can be quite rare in the market. Getting *those* doesnt equal a few grand. Some would tell you a baby Galapagos would be overpriced at four grand too, let me say. Basically, I personally find it a monopoly on the market of a single species. Its the same opinion I have with people who develop new morphs. "We're the only ones who have them/can get them, thus, lets make the price astronomic."

Their monogomous, but I dont believe studies have really proved this all the way. Its safe to say MOST pairs are monogomous, but quite a few are not. Interesting though - watch them on David Attenboroughs Life in Cold Blood for example. If one gets run over, the other stays with it for days, as if mourning it. But I digress, I dont believe this means it wont go off and mate with another of its same species. : p

If they keep as explosively expensive as they are, I may well wait until I get some breeding done. I'll be putting a bit away every so often for them. I'm perfectly fine with that kindof money if its indeed a rare animal. I'd pay that for say, a Keel-billed Toucan, if someone had to go to the rainforest and nab me one. I would not, however, pay that much for something thats profusely running around in groups in the australian outback. Rare in the trade is different from *actual* rarity; but yeah, thats just the way I see things in that respect.

But fair warning. If I do personally get a breeding pair, I'll be selling off the young ones on at a fraction of the price. God bless competition, eh? : )

I will contact this breeder someone suggested; and I will see what they think. I have other contacts for now too; basically I'm just shopping around before making a final decision. :3


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## seanUK (May 23, 2007)

Redsquire said:


> Between one and three LIVE babies on average. Basically guaranteed livestock, no messy egg carry-on.
> 
> Secondly, these guys are everywhere in australia. I recognize that Australia has its totalitarian border laws it has to stick to, if simply to help the eradication and extinction of its own native species (Can you tell I didn't like this political move yet? Haha.) but to be honest, their by no means rare. Rare in the market, perhaps.
> 
> ...


 
There are some points you made here which I agree with and some not so. 

First, yes your correct they are very common in areas they inhabit in Australia, hundreds if not thousands are killed on the roads, but as you mentioned because Australia does not export for the pet trade they are not often seen, this plus the fact they are not prolific breeders and demand makes the price quite high.

Second, you are not guaranteed young just because they do not lay eggs. This species in captivity as been known to go years in between having offspring and then on average they only have 2 babies.


Third, Shinglebacks are not as easy to keep healthy as people seem to think. They are severely affected by increases in humidity so if your going to keep them make sure you invest in a di-humidifier and never leave a water bowl in the enclosure permanently. If housed in a reptile room with other reptiles make sure that you keep species which do not require humidity as even background humidity level can affect them.

Fourth, I personally don't think that the species mates for life all the time, some may well do so but think about it logically for instance if one dies then this leaves a single animal never to mate again!! If thousands dies each year on the roads or to predation etc... the species would soon become eventually extinct except we see the opposite there are thousands of them in the wild. Plus on another note if a breeder as acquired a wild caught adult from somewhere surely this animal as been mated before in the past so why can they produce from this animal with another if they are meant to be monogomous. I think the momogomous thing may well happen but also opportunity to mate as well occurs.


Fifth, I cannot ever see the price coming down unless Australia decides to change the export laws. Also price depends on which shingleback you require. For example normal brown T. r. aspera average around 1500-2000ea, kalgoorlie red T. r. rugosa are around 5000-8000ea but these are very far and few between in the hobby.


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

seanUK said:


> There are some points you made here which I agree with and some not so.
> 
> First, yes your correct they are very common in areas they inhabit in Australia, hundreds if not thousands are killed on the roads, but as you mentioned because Australia does not export for the pet trade they are not often seen, this plus the fact they are not prolific breeders and demand makes the price quite high.


I wasnt particularly sure on the rate of breeding myself; taking random reading into example, I've simply found 1 to 3 babies to be average. Wish to heck the lil' guys would breed more. : (



seanUK said:


> Second, you are not guaranteed young just because they do not lay eggs. This species in captivity as been known to go years in between having offspring and then on average they only have 2 babies.
> 
> 
> Third, Shinglebacks are not as easy to keep healthy as people seem to think. They are severely affected by increases in humidity so if your going to keep them make sure you invest in a di-humidifier and never leave a water bowl in the enclosure permanently. If housed in a reptile room with other reptiles make sure that you keep species which do not require humidity as even background humidity level can affect them.


The uneven breeding patterns irritate me. We had that with a lot of our aquarium species of tropical fish. Personally I prefer annuals, but I'm always up for a challenge. }: )

I'm not sure if this is sufficient enough to draw a comparison - but I keep Horsfields. They dont like their humidity, far as I've heard. I have a hygrometer just to check its always low enough for them, since apparently they dont respond well to it. I dont know if this is better or worse for Shingles, but yeah. Sounds like a fanning system or something might be needed. Interesting, although a bugger to put in sometimes, depending on what setup you have.

Coming from such an arid environment as Auss though, I supposed that'd make sense. Personally I'd just feel guilty not leaving the water dish there, but thats just me.



seanUK said:


> Fourth, I personally don't think that the species mates for life all the time, some may well do so but think about it logically for instance if one dies then this leaves a single animal never to mate again!! If thousands dies each year on the roads or to predation etc... the species would soon become eventually extinct except we see the opposite there are thousands of them in the wild. Plus on another note if a breeder as acquired a wild caught adult from somewhere surely this animal as been mated before in the past so why can they produce from this animal with another if they are meant to be monogomous. I think the momogomous thing may well happen but also opportunity to mate as well occurs.


Nah, I think latest research has said individual animals mate for life, whereas others are wholly NOT monogomous at all. Still others stay together, others seperate and meet up later for breeding, blah-de-blah... it's really interesting. They have a lot of character. : ) So yes, we'd be right in saying they aren't entirely monogomous. Thats not to say many of them ARE of course, but yes. Breeding is possible. Its just getting over the guilt if you've taken a wild caught bred from the wild and its mates still out there, possibly looking for it. Makes me kinda sad. : (



seanUK said:


> Fifth, I cannot ever see the price coming down unless Australia decides to change the export laws. Also price depends on which shingleback you require. For example normal brown T. r. aspera average around 1500-2000ea, kalgoorlie red T. r. rugosa are around 5000-8000ea but these are very far and few between in the hobby.


I've heard a lot about aspera, but I'm having difficulty exactly discerning what the difference is between the two. All research I've read up on online (and from what little books delves into it that I can find) show a more white mottled version of the same animal. Would I be right in saying this? If not, by all means correct me.

If the white mottled ones are aspera, thats the kind Im looking for. 

If its individual markings.... well, damn. Haha.

Examples;



















_(Courtesy of terrapinspira.ch)_

I'd buy aspera (if this IS aspera) simply due to the coloration. I like it. I'd buy rugosa simply for the snobbery factor of having them, haha. And of course, to breed them up by any means possible.

The species really needs to be brought into the market more. A lot of people love these guys, but their so terribly unavailable it hurts. : ( Sad state of affairs.


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## seanUK (May 23, 2007)

Those in the pics you posted are not aspera. They are rugosa or palarra.

If you go to this link here are some pics of mine Shinglebacks - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum

There you will see rugosa and aspera, the black and brown shingles are aspera and are different in shape to rugosa.


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

seanUK said:


> Those in the pics you posted are not aspera. They are rugosa or palarra.
> 
> If you go to this link here are some pics of mine Shinglebacks - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum


Ta very much! Off to have a look. : )

Edit: Had a look. 

Yep, those Kal's are a bugger to get ahold of. I basically gave up all hope of ever seeing those. I'd heard whisperings a long time ago about these being around somewhere through the vine, but apparently, some collector with means much higher than you nor I had obviously snatched them up far beforehand. So the Japan theory isn't as far from home as anyone thinks. Wouldn't put it past them, the meanies.

I liked this one the most;








Very beautiul. <3 : )

I would destroy _cities_ for one of those Kal's, especially the deeper orange hue. Trouble is, worldwide, theres a lot of competition for them. : (


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## seanUK (May 23, 2007)

Yes that is a rugosa rugosa and a very special one too.


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## cacoonkitty (Aug 10, 2008)

hiya, these will definatly cost you alot im afraid, my partner and myself went to hamm last march with a friend wayne hollands(one here somewhere too) who was selling a sexed pair for his friend scott (on here some where)to a german couple, they went for around £4000 or something like that, they live bear so thats one of the reasons they are special and also have breeding mates for life!!! !!, tried to see a min ago if there was any for sale at hamm in march but no luck im afraid yet , there latin name is trachydosaurus rugosus so google it or go to www.terraristick.com (hamm reptile show selling forum) and see what you get..never know might be lucky one day..we all are at some point, even if it breaks the bank like when i got my tree monitors!!!


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## seanUK (May 23, 2007)

cacoonkitty said:


> hiya, these will definatly cost you alot im afraid, my partner and myself went to hamm last march with a friend wayne hollands(one here somewhere too) who was selling a sexed pair for his friend scott (on here some where)to a german couple, they went for around £4000 or something like that, they live bear so thats one of the reasons they are special and also have breeding mates for life!!! !!, tried to see a min ago if there was any for sale at hamm in march but no luck im afraid yet , there latin name is trachydosaurus rugosus so google it or go to www.terraristick.com (hamm reptile show selling forum) and see what you get..never know might be lucky one day..we all are at some point, even if it breaks the bank like when i got my tree monitors!!!


That was me and my name is Sean not Scott. Yes Wayne is a friend of mine.

There are 4 known sub species and different locals.

T. r. aspera
T. r. rugosa
T. r. palarra
T. r. konowi


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

£4000!!:gasp:
About 8 years ago there were some floating around Norwich for £200 each. Should have set up a breeding group!


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

Caz said:


> £4000!!:gasp:
> About 8 years ago there were some floating around Norwich for £200 each. Should have set up a breeding group!


Bluetongues go for around £200 each, you arent getting confused with those guys, are you? I honestly never heard of them being any cheaper than this. (Probably were though. I wasnt after them any time during Aussies open borders time. : / Ah well.

Definately be trying for some sometime I think.

Cacoonkitty ) Out of curiosity; you say you got some tree monitors?
How much did you happen to get those for, if you don't mind my asking?
T'was another species I was trying to acquire. : )


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Redsquire said:


> Bluetongues go for around £200 each, you arent getting confused with those guys, are you? I honestly never heard of them being any cheaper than this. (Probably were though. I wasnt after them any time during Aussies open borders time. : / Ah well.
> 
> Definately be trying for some sometime I think.
> 
> ...


Def' not confused. I could get Blue Tounges last year cb 09's for £60 each.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Caz said:


> Def' not confused. I could get Blue Tounges last year cb 09's for £60 each.


You could also get blue tongues last year for £200.Blue tongue is not just one species.There are 6 species fairly common availible and there price varys as some are easyer to get than others.With Northern Australia bts-(Tiliqua Scincoides Intermedia) being the highist 8 year ago thay was higher than £200.

Shingle backs for £200 i've had that dream also:whistling2:.Then i woke up:lol2:.


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## seanUK (May 23, 2007)

No one sells shinglebacks for £200 unless they are mentally insane or living in Australia!!!

As gazz as said there are different species of blue tongues and colour morphs.

T. multifaciata go for £3000ea but are never really offered infact I only know a few people with this species in Europe.

T. occipitalis also sell for around £3000ea.


Before you make comments please do your research properly, thats all I've got to say on this post.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

gazz said:


> You could also get blue tongues last year for £200.Blue tongue is not just one species.There are 6 species availible and there price varys as some are easyer to get than others.With Northern Australia bts-(Tiliqua Scincoides Intermedia) being the highist 8 year ago thay was higher than £200.
> 
> Shingle backs for £200 i've had that dream also:whistling2:.Then i woke up:lol2:.


 
I believe there are 7 actually but things get reclassified so quickly. Anyway..
Norwich Reptile Company was selling Shingle Backs for £400. They bought them in for £200 each locally. A few local people were offered them. This was around 9 years ago now.

But believe what you like. :lol2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Caz said:


> I believe there are 7 actually but things get reclassified so quickly. Anyway..


There are 6 easy seen.There is a 7th that's about but not common.Then there's three others again about but have a shy high price tag.

*Often seen People friendly price tag.*
Indonesian bts-(Tiliqua gigas gigas).
Meruake bts-(Tiliqua gigas evanescens).
Tanimbar Island bts-(Tiliqua scincoides chimaerea).
Eastern Australian-(Tiliqua scincoides scincoides).
Northern Astralian bts-(Tiliqua scincoides intermedia).
New Guinea bts-(Tiliqua species).

*Seen now and then price tag around £300.*
Kei Island bts-(Tiliqua gigas keyensis).

*Seen now and then with high price tag.*
Centralian bts-(Tiliqua multifasciata).
Western Australian bts-(Tiliqua occipitalis).
Blotched bts-(Tiliqua nigrolutea).


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## carlo69 (Apr 12, 2007)

*hi*



gazz said:


> You could also get blue tongues last year for £200.Blue tongue is not just one species.There are 6 species fairly common availible and there price varys as some are easyer to get than others.With Northern Australia bts-(Tiliqua Scincoides Intermedia) being the highist 8 year ago thay was higher than £200.
> 
> Shingle backs for £200 i've had that dream also:whistling2:.Then i woke up:lol2:.


I can 100% say that there was shingleback skinks for sale in Norwich for £200 about 9 years ,I am kicking myself now for not getting some.Personally i didn't bother because i think they look like walking dog turds


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

Caz said:


> I believe there are 7 actually but things get reclassified so quickly. Anyway..
> Norwich Reptile Company was selling Shingle Backs for £400. They bought them in for £200 each locally. A few local people were offered them. This was around 9 years ago now.
> 
> But believe what you like. :lol2:


 In your defence; I've seen one or two online advertisements of UK pet shops selling Shinglebacks. Sadly, the interaction with these pet shops are very poor. They probably heard the jaws themetune playing in their heads when they sensed my approach. : / When I want something I tend not to let go of it.

But sadly, thats all I can say. The price is quite often "Please Contact Us" instead of an actual price. Hmm.

Anyway, other than the Shinglebacks, I'm handling an order for some Northern Blue's right now. Always liked them, so I'm getting my feelers out for a small group to come in just after I have my workspace set up for them.

Breeding will be commenced on a variety of species by me. Recreationally rather than professionally; but the money will be going simply back into the funding of said animals. And to buy new ones... like Shinglebacks. : ) Its a species I'm definately going to want to touch upon sometime in the next 5 years I'm aiming for. But if Aus opens its borders again SIX years from now, expect not to hear from me again. I'll probably have killed myself. >_>

And meh, some species of Bluetongue are more expensive than others. But to be honest; many are also very territorial and not very handleable. Just because its expensive doesnt mean its an enjoyable pet. Personally I'd just be breeding them and get the population up. Thats more bloody important than anything else, right now. But yeah. God I love those white freckled ones. : )

The full blackish ones were the ones most common on Life in Cold Blood. They were cute too, they seemed very docile also.


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## .... (Jan 2, 2010)

Anyone have any idea on what the going rate for a 2-3 year old Meruake bts-(Tiliqua gigas evanescens).


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## Redsquire (Mar 22, 2009)

.... said:


> Anyone have any idea on what the going rate for a 2-3 year old Meruake bts-(Tiliqua gigas evanescens).


Always thought those had a strange look to them. Not sure whether I like them or not, personally, but I'm sure their nice.

As for going rate, no clue. Never heard of anyone chasing them. Personally I think getting a pure one of many breeds of Bluetongue is often difficult to do. Many scream a certain type, others carry with them the genetics of another. Personally I wouldn't try getting an evanescens unless I could somehow be 100% sure that its pure.

Thats just my two cents, anyway. If you can get it, and your _sure_, go for it.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

.... said:


> Anyone have any idea on what the going rate for a 2-3 year old Meruake bts-(Tiliqua gigas evanescens).


Be tween £100-to-£150 or £150-to-£200.Depends wheather private breeder or dealer.


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## .... (Jan 2, 2010)

gazz said:


> Be tween £100-to-£150 or £150-to-£200.Depends wheather private breeder or dealer.





Redsquire said:


> Always thought those had a strange look to them. Not sure whether I like them or not, personally, but I'm sure their nice.
> 
> As for going rate, no clue. Never heard of anyone chasing them. Personally I think getting a pure one of many breeds of Bluetongue is often difficult to do. Many scream a certain type, others carry with them the genetics of another. Personally I wouldn't try getting an evanescens unless I could somehow be 100% sure that its pure.
> 
> Thats just my two cents, anyway. If you can get it, and your _sure_, go for it.


Thanks guys.:2thumb:: victory::no1::notworthy:


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