# Help with fish ID



## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Was just wondering what kind of fish these are? My Mum has them but not sure what they are. And before anyone starts, i HAVE Googled it, cant find them. 
THANKS! 



















Sorry for the quality of pics, theyre quick!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

red devil?

is it big?


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

Im sure its a Red devil cichlid, is it kept in a tropical fish tank?


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Yeah theyre in a tropical setup by themselves now, they were in with a parrotfish and it was bullying them something awful. if it helps their headgear deflates when stressed it would seem. 
That pic does look like them HABU but theyre not that big, id say about 5 inches or so. Maybe just not fully grown?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a midas cichlid maybe?

maybe a flowerhorn cichlid?


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

HABU said:


> a midas cichlid maybe?
> 
> maybe a flowerhorn cichlid?
> 
> image


Its either a red devil or a mida.

doesnt look much of a flowerhorn


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Do these cichlids come in different colours then? As theyre very pale pink, no sign of red on them at all. We were told they were 'Bubblegum Parrotfish' when we bought them but couldnt find anything like that on Google.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Just had a look and we're thinking Mida too actually. Thanks a lot for helping guys as it was starting to annoy us. lol


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

daikenkai said:


> Do these cichlids come in different colours then? As theyre very pale pink, no sign of red on them at all. We were told they were 'Bubblegum Parrotfish' when we bought them but couldnt find anything like that on Google.


:lol2: There is no such fish known as 'Bubblegum parrotfish' and it is a trolling name lol, however there is 'Blood parrot cichlid' but thats not similar to what this one looks, as i said its either a mida's or a red devil.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

these guys vary so much... they can be confusing... so many cichlids are...


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

abadi said:


> :lol2: There is no such fish known as 'Bubblegum parrotfish' and it is a trolling name lol, however there is 'Blood parrot cichlid' but thats not similar to what this one looks, as i said its either a mida's or a red devil.


 
Haha! Yeah we figured that out quick enough! My Mum had never had Cichlids so was just taking the guys word for what was in the tank. He didnt seem to know what anything was in there, or notice that they were all stressed out their tree. My Mums had to get 2 more tanks to seperate them all!


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Your fish are short body/ballon pink convict cichlids. They are often dyed and labled as bubblegum/jellybean parrot cichlids but they are 100% convict. People usually swear that they are a cross between a pink convict and a blood parrot but ask them to provide proof and they cannot. I have bred a pink convict with a blood parrot and it does not produce thse fish. Care for them is the same as regular convicts, they seem just as hardy and willing to breed and do breed true but breeding a short body to a regular will yield all regular fry. If they have been previously dyed then they may have long term health problems.

Hoep this helps


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

BornSlippy said:


> Your fish are short body/ballon pink convict cichlids. They are often dyed and labled as bubblegum/jellybean parrot cichlids but they are 100% convict. People usually swear that they are a cross between a pink convict and a blood parrot but ask them to provide proof and they cannot. I have bred a pink convict with a blood parrot and it does not produce thse fish. Care for them is the same as regular convicts, they seem just as hardy and willing to breed and do breed true but breeding a short body to a regular will yield all regular fry. If they have been previously dyed then they may have long term health problems.
> 
> Hoep this helps


Dude, idk about that...i have bred Convicts for years and NEVER saw a male Convict w/ a hump like THAT. My vote is it's something from the Amphilophus genus, im leaning towards a Midas cuz Red Devils don't normally come in that color, but at 5" we'd need to find out how old it is, what size tank it is in, what temperature it's kept at, and how often it eats and some other info would be helpful. I mean it DOES appear to have a very Convict-like mouth, however, Amphilophids have very similar mouths as well. 

Considering that a male Midas or Devil can reach 10+ inches by the end of it's 1st year if cared for properly and kept at the right temperature.....if this fish is much older than a year, BornSlippy may be correct. If so, I AM AMAZED that there's a strain of Archocentrus that get a nuchal hump that immense. That is truly unheard of around here, however i have a large 12"+ male Midas Cichlid that sports a very large hump similar to that. That has to be chemically induced, or given hormones or fed Humpy Head or something if it's a Convict.


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## colinbradbury (Nov 16, 2008)

its certainly looks like a pink convict to me , although the hump is one of the largest i have seen on a con, so there is a possability there is something mixed in with it . these pink cons are so mutated anyway though that they can show some strange things


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## boisterous_billy (Oct 12, 2010)

I must say i thought it was a convict when i first see it but it was the hump
that said it wasnt.

I had cons for 6yrs now and ive got some big boys with humps but nothing
as big as that.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Its supposed to be around 2-3 years old i think. Not sure what temps. theyre kept at, ill find out for you today or tomorrow though. Theres 2 of them in a 3ft tank on their own and i think my mum feeds her fish twice a day. As i said ill find out particulars for sure. 
The other fish in the tank doesnt have a lump on its head nearly that big, just a teeny one compared to this guy but theyre around the same size.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

daikenkai said:


> Its supposed to be around 2-3 years old i think. Not sure what temps. theyre kept at, ill find out for you today or tomorrow though. Theres 2 of them in a 3ft tank on their own and i think my mum feeds her fish twice a day. As i said ill find out particulars for sure.
> The other fish in the tank doesnt have a lump on its head nearly that big, just a teeny one compared to this guy but theyre around the same size.


Cichlids species are very difficult to spot, just like the eastern part of Asia : victory:


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

The nuchal hump only looks so large because it's body is so small compared to a regular convict. Many people either don't keep cons long enough to see them grow their humps and long fins or keep them in pairs where they have no need to be the dominant fish. I can assure you it is a short body convict. Compare it with some regular convicts with large nuchal humps.



















OP's fish


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

As already stated,it IS a convict.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

After seeing the pics of a normal size convict we think thats what they are too, colouring etc. is a perfect match. 
Thanks again for all the replies!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> As already stated,it IS a convict.


I'm glad you are so sure of this, but if you want other people to believe or to even consider that you know what you're talking about I advise you in the future to complete your posts w/ supporting facts such as how, why, etc. You may BE right, but a 7 letter sentence w/ one word in caps is not a proffessional way of answering/responding and shows no evidence that you have any reason for making this statement other than just because "you felt like it". 

That's not how things work. Something isn't true/accurate just because someone says it is and w/ all the incorrect information circulating on the internet these days, supporting your ideas w/ facts is a MUST for people to take it seriously. Just being honest. For example, we Googled "baby water snakes" the other day and 50% of the pictures they had labelled "water snakes" were actually Corns and Milks.

Also, these pictures don't really mean much of anything to me, and the only thing they are doing is leading me to believe it looks more like a Midas that has been stunted by keeping too many in a tank that's not big enough.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> I'm glad you are so sure of this, but if you want other people to believe or to even consider that you know what you're talking about I advise you in the future to complete your posts w/ supporting facts such as how, why, etc. You may BE right, but a 7 letter sentence w/ one word in caps is not a proffessional way of answering/responding and shows no evidence that you have any reason for making this statement other than just because "you felt like it".
> 
> That's not how things work. Something isn't true/accurate just because someone says it is and w/ all the incorrect information circulating on the internet these days, supporting your ideas w/ facts is a MUST for people to take it seriously. Just being honest. For example, we Googled "baby water snakes" the other day and 50% of the pictures they had labelled "water snakes" were actually Corns and Milks.
> 
> Also, these pictures don't really mean much of anything to me, and the only thing they are doing is leading me to believe it looks more like a Midas that has been stunted by keeping too many in a tank that's not big enough.


I can definately see why you would think it looks like a midas or red devil though there are several features that would rule this out. Firstly it's very rare to find an all white midas or even red devil for that matter. The eyes also give it away as midas tend to have either all black eyes or large black pupils with the rest being orange or yellowish. The lips are also too thin to be an Amphilophus. It also has the reddish/bluish colouration to the dorsal and ventral fins which are apparent in pink convicts. Lastly you can clearly see it has the short body deformation, stunted cichlids usually just look smaller/thinner.

Here is another picture of an adult male short body pink convict.


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## boisterous_billy (Oct 12, 2010)

Ive just showed my mate the pic and he is saying it def looks like a jelly bean convict.

And i trust hes judgement as he has had these fish for many of years.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

boisterous_billy said:


> Ive just showed my mate the pic and he is saying it def looks like a jelly bean convict.
> 
> And i trust hes judgement as he has had these fish for many of years.


Another misleading name but yes basically a short body convict.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

So have they been bred to look like that then?


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## boisterous_billy (Oct 12, 2010)

BornSlippy said:


> Another misleading name but yes basically a short body convict.


What is a misleading name...?


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

I love the fact that those of you who are "SO" convinced that you are "100% CORRECT" and that you "DO" know what you are talking about... are the ones who have only kept one or t'other of the species, are having to 'phone a friend' to get an answer you are expecting the poor OP to rely on as a correct identification.

I wont claim to know 100% what it is but what i CAN tell you for sure is that:

-Red Devils/Midas cichlids a VERY common in pale pink, its just that most sensible aquatic shops wont sell them because most 'fish keepers' arent capable of maintaining large cichlids in sensible sized thanks and in good health.

-Balloon Convicts let alone Albino/Pink Balloon/short bodied Convicts are far less commonly seen in the trade because no one with any sense of respect for animals would buy a species that is completely, totally and utterly screwed up. Along with Flowerhorns and Parrot Cichlids (the deformed ones, not the true Parrot Cichlid Hoplarchus Psittacus). Most of the large fish stores refuse to carry coloured, deformed or genetically modified fish anyway.

In my honest opinion, my guess would be a Flowerhorn, they can come out any colour and any shape as they are an unpredictable hybrid used for breeding the deformed Parrot cichlids. Usually something like a severum x red devil.... hence the common pale pink colouring....

I dont think anyone here can give you a 100% definate answer, not even myself and i have worked in the aquatic trade for years and import fish like these. I would say ask at the shop it was purchased at, if they cant tell you for sure, i certainly wouldnt shop there again!!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Flowerhorns are a large part Midas Cichlid(Amphilophus citrinellus) and Three-Spotted Cichlid (Cichlasoma trimaculatum), but supposedly there is also genetic material contributed by Red Devil (Amphilophus labiatus), Red-headed Cichlid (Cichlasoma synspilum), Red Terror (Amphilophus festae), and Chocolate Cichlid (Hypselecara Temporalis). Blood Parrots were used initially, but their use nowadays for breeding FHs is very limited.

The only reason I am aware of this information is because I am a FH breeder, specializing in the Exotic Marvel variety. My most recent clutch was fathered by a large "Calico" white Midas and a female Exotic Marvel. All aforementioned species may not be present depending on the FH strain, but the possibility of all 6 included is there. 2 species you MUST have for a "true" FH is Midas and Trimac.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Maybe not misleading but the term "jellybean", "bubblegum" or "disco" tends to refer to the fact they are often artificially dyed bright colours.



Moogloo said:


> I love the fact that those of you who are "SO" convinced that you are "100% CORRECT" and that you "DO" know what you are talking about... are the ones who have only kept one or t'other of the species, are having to 'phone a friend' to get an answer you are expecting the poor OP to rely on as a correct identification.
> 
> I wont claim to know 100% what it is but what i CAN tell you for sure is that:
> 
> ...


I have kept and bred balloon pink and striped convicts and currently have an adult male so I have no need to ask anyone else. I know what my fish is and im pretty sure I know what the OP's fish is (they have already accepted my ID). Your guess at flowerhorn is incorrect though not a bad guess since yes they are very much hybridised but flowerhorns lacking the red eyes (which come from the trimac) are very rare as are white ones.

I disagree also about how common midas/red devils are as at least in the UK they are sold in most aquatic outlets as are most of the larger cichlids both young and adults (adults are usually hand ins). If a fish is small when they get them in then they rarely care what size they will grow to when sold. Solid white/pink (pink convict pink) colour midas/devils are not common though, even a google search will show this.

I do agree that short body convicts are not that common but most shops who sell hybrids/dyed fish will stock them now and again. Even some of the better shops around here sell blood parrots, balloon rams and flowerhorns. At the end of the day it's usually a case of supply and demand. I would much rather see the trade in dyed fish and large tankbusters stopped before hybrids.

I agree many flowerhorns do produce very varied batches of fry. You are incorrect with your views on serverums though, they are too far apart genetically to hybridise with any cichlid outside the seveum complex.

Asking in the shop where the fish were purchased may not be of any use. The fish were probably labled as something like "bubblegum parrots" or "jellybean cichlids".


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

abadi said:


> Its either a red devil or a mida.
> 
> doesnt look much of a flowerhorn


A Midas IS a Red devil haha


It doesn't look like a Midas to me, the face/mouth area screams Texas to me, their are hybrids of these going about.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

The T Lord said:


> A Midas IS a Red devil haha
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like a Midas to me, the face/mouth area screams Texas to me, their are hybrids of these going about.


No it's not. The midas cichlid is Amphilophus Citrinellus and the red devil is Amphilophus labiatum :whistling2:


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> I'm glad you are so sure of this, but if you want other people to believe or to even consider that you know what you're talking about I advise you in the future to complete your posts w/ supporting facts such as how, why, etc. You may BE right, but a 7 letter sentence w/ one word in caps is not a proffessional way of answering/responding and shows no evidence that you have any reason for making this statement other than just because "you felt like it".
> 
> That's not how things work. Something isn't true/accurate just because someone says it is and w/ all the incorrect information circulating on the internet these days, supporting your ideas w/ facts is a MUST for people to take it seriously. Just being honest. For example, we Googled "baby water snakes" the other day and 50% of the pictures they had labelled "water snakes" were actually Corns and Milks.
> 
> ...


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

That is not a very adult reply mr Berber king it's only 23 words for starters and then there seems to be some letters missing


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

penfold said:


> That is not a very adult reply mr Berber king it's only 23 words for starters and then there seems to be some letters missing


:lol2:

There seems to be an increase in "proffesional" posters these days, many "experts" too :whistling2:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

penfold said:


> That is not a very adult reply mr Berber king it's only 23 words for starters and then there seems to be some letters missing


Agreed. You can't expect someone just to take you seriously simply because you make a statement and don't support it with anything. YOU might think you're right and YOU might somehow believe people SHOULD take you seriously, but the fact of the matter is that they simply won't, especially not an educated individual.

Also @ Tlord and BornSlippy - Yes, a Midas and a Red Devil are two different species belonging to the genus Amphilophus, a very aggressive group of fish including Red Terrors and several others that may or may not have a "common name". Te Red Devil is recognized by it's lighter build and reddish to pinkish coloring, and almost ALWAYS, RED EYES while the Midas is a much thicker and more robust fish, available in a variety of colors from the uncommon all white to orange and similar hues. The Midas typically has normal colored eyes.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Im guessing your american as you completely missed the sarcasm in penfolds statement.I dont care whether you think i am wrong or right,it was a quick reply due to time restraints,i just dont wish to be spoken to like a child by someone as pompous as yourself.Ive noticed you giving a fair amount of bad and incorrect advice in various sections of this forum,and yet you clearly feel superior to anybody else.So please go forward and multiply victor.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> Im guessing your american as you completely missed the sarcasm in penfolds statement.I dont care whether you think i am wrong or right,it was a quick reply due to time restraints,i just dont wish to be spoken to like a child by someone as pompous as yourself.Ive noticed you giving a fair amount of bad and incorrect advice in various sections of this forum,and yet you clearly feel superior to anybody else.So please go forward and multiply victor.


Such as?? Give examples. There you go AGAIN...just stating things without any support or evidence to back it up. I'm not hard to talk to and you can ask some of the people on my friends list how easy-going and friendly I am, since you obviously formed an opinion of me that is incorrect. Name-calling is pretty childish and while I made nothing but an informative and educated observation, instead of replying the way you just did.....you replied to me w/ name calling and ACTING childish, which is exactly the opposite of how you would like to be treated. Last time i checked, respect was not just a 1-way street, especially w/ proffessionalism. Practice what you preach and live by the Golden Rule, Brutha. So, shall we continue as adults?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Looks like a Jellybean cichlid. That's a Hybrid between a Polly parrot cichlid and a Convict cichlid.

Convict cichlid. Avalible in pink.









Polly parrot cichlid,(Hybrid Midas/Red devil X Severum).









Jellybean cichlid,(Polly parrot X Convict).


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## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> Agreed. You can't expect someone just to take you seriously simply because you make a statement and don't support it with anything. YOU might think you're right and YOU might somehow believe people SHOULD take you seriously, but the fact of the matter is that they simply won't,* especially not an educated individual.
> *
> Also @ Tlord and BornSlippy - Yes, a Midas and a Red Devil are two different species belonging to the genus Amphilophus, a very aggressive group of fish including Red Terrors and several others that may or may not have a "common name". Te Red Devil is recognized by it's lighter build and reddish to pinkish coloring, and almost ALWAYS, RED EYES while the Midas is a much thicker and more robust fish, available in a variety of colors from the uncommon all white to orange and similar hues. The Midas typically has normal colored eyes.


Are you an "educated individual"
Breeding a mix of species to make a mongrel fish, does not make you "educated", it makes you someone who breed hybrids which are largely looked down on in the hobby.
There have been 2-3 people on this thread, WHO HAVE THE SPECIES IN THE OP, who have said yes, it is this species, and have provided a picture.
you've given no "source" for your information whatsoever besides claiming to be a flowerhorn breeder, well done on that.

:devil:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

daz30347 said:


> Are you an "educated individual"
> Breeding a mix of species to make a mongrel fish, does not make you "educated", it makes you someone who breed hybrids which are largely looked down on in the hobby.
> There have been 2-3 people on this thread, WHO HAVE THE SPECIES IN THE OP, who have said yes, it is this species, and have provided a picture.
> you've given no "source" for your information whatsoever besides claiming to be a flowerhorn breeder, well done on that.
> ...


I never SAID I knew what the damn fish was, Genius. Try reading before you post, smart*ss. You can look down on my Flowerhorns as much as you want, and while you're looking down, make sure you watch me pocketing all that CASH i get for them from people who pay big bucks for them.:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2::bash::whip:


....and i don't need your attitude or arrogance, I was PLENTY humble in every post in this thread, and if you re-read my posts, you'll see I'm merely trying to establish differences to help me recognize a new "species" that I'm not familiar with, so tone it down, Son.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

A quick scan of a few of your posts has found you advising that a coldwater tank full of goldfish is easier to maintain than small trops (bigger fish,produce more waste,biological filtration slower at lower temps),and on a reptile related query,you advise soaking the animal in water for 24 hours to rid the mites,so long as its head is above (that speaks for itself).You also seem to have a god complex,arguing with anyone who has questioned you.So,id suggest you stick to your comic books and hybrid cichlids you arrogant t****r.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> A quick scan of a few of your posts has found you advising that a coldwater tank full of goldfish is easier to maintain than small trops (bigger fish,produce more waste,biological filtration slower at lower temps),and on a reptile related query,you advise soaking the animal in water for 24 hours to rid the mites,so long as its head is above (that speaks for itself).You also seem to have a god complex,arguing with anyone who has questioned you.So,id suggest you stick to your comic books and hybrid cichlids you arrogant t****r.


this is the 4th post from you claiming something and STILL no evidence to back up your claim. Pics or it didn't happen. I don't waste my time w/ Goldfish, so I wouldn't bother talking about them, so you're incorrect AGAIN. Drowning the mites is a very suitable way to kill them initially as long as follow-up treament of Mite spray or oils are continually applied. I'll tell you what, you can keep putting words into my mouth, playing your childish games, acting like a 4-year old, name-calling, and I'll be LOL'ing at your inability to come up with a good useful post, conclude facts from educated research, pay attention and read thoroughly, as well as NOT make yourself look like an *SS when you are clearly trying to make me look like an *ss......and also learning to recognize your short-comings and speak to me in a proper manner - with some respect.


It's not arrogance......it's the FACTS. Suck it up and deal with it.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

im sorry to have to bring this up, Victor Creed, but ive noticed that on this forum, all you seem to be doing is saying that all other people are wrong. here you are saying about FACT, now i beleive we had an argument about proven facts and 'i saw a 6ft long Loricariid!', and your saying that without photos or proof, they are wrong. you are simply contradicting yourself, and you hugely annoy me. please can you stop all this childish, hypocritical behaviour and just become ameable with a few people on here and gain your respect before you start all these rampages about how you are right. please.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> im sorry to have to bring this up, Victor Creed, but ive noticed that on this forum, all you seem to be doing is saying that all other people are wrong. here you are saying about FACT, now i beleive we had an argument about proven facts and 'i saw a 6ft long Loricariid!', and your saying that without photos or proof, they are wrong. you are simply contradicting yourself, and you hugely annoy me. please can you stop all this childish, hypocritical behaviour and just become ameable with a few people on here and gain your respect before you start all these rampages about how you are right. please.



thankyou  couldnt have put it better myself


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> im sorry to have to bring this up, Victor Creed, but ive noticed that on this forum, all you seem to be doing is saying that all other people are wrong. here you are saying about FACT, now i beleive we had an argument about proven facts and 'i saw a 6ft long Loricariid!', and your saying that without photos or proof, they are wrong. you are simply contradicting yourself, and you hugely annoy me. please can you stop all this childish, hypocritical behaviour and just become ameable with a few people on here and gain your respect before you start all these rampages about how you are right. please.


So basically what you are saying is that people on this forum don't care if you're right, they just want you to kiss their *ss??? Personally I could care LESS if you believe that I have seen 4-6 foot Plecostomus in the wild, as long as I know what I saw. I hope you also understand I am old enough to be your father as well, meaning I lived long and seen the "new" improved methods become outdated and obsolete. 

My only goal is to rid the old notions that people have been brainwashed into believing via LFS, incorrect internet posting/labeling/ID, or w/e it be by any means neccessarry. For those of you who don't like my methods, I suggest : >User CP > Edit Ignore list. As far as sticking around and getting respect, i don't SEE much respect in alot peoples' mentallities, and I was also treated like sh*t my 1st 3 weeks here and no one cared how I felt and i got 1 or 2 apologies which is about 5% of what it SHOULD have been (and mind you, these people ALL SWORE THEY WERE RIGHT), so I seriously couldN'T care less about peoples' feelings who haven't treated me with respect. It doesn't work that way, and no one in any shape or form will convince me that they deserve MY respect and I don't deserve theirs' mutually. You have alot to learn, young lady....fortunately you have plenty of time for that. Wait until u get old and turn my age, you'll be sick of everyone following what their told and acting like sheep in a flock.

You don't get treated BETTER than you treat me. You get treated the EXACT same way you treat me. The sooner everyone learns this, not only can WE be cool, but the rest of the world can learn from it and live in perfect harmony.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> So basically what you are saying is that people on this forum don't care if you're right, they just want you to kiss their *ss??? Personally I could care LESS if you believe that I have seen 4-6 foot Plecostomus in the wild, as long as I know what I saw. I hope you also understand I am old enough to be your father as well, meaning I lived long and seen the "new" improved methods become outdated and obsolete.
> 
> My only goal is to rid the old notions that people have been brainwashed into believing via LFS, incorrect internet posting/labeling/ID, or w/e it be by any means neccessarry. For those of you who don't like my methods, I suggest : >User CP > Edit Ignore list. As far as sticking around and getting respect, i don't SEE much respect in alot peoples' mentallities, and I was also treated like sh*t my 1st 3 weeks here and no one cared how I felt and i got 1 or 2 apologies which is about 5% of what it SHOULD have been (and mind you, these people ALL SWORE THEY WERE RIGHT), so I seriously could care less about peoples' feelings who haven't treated me with respect. It doesn't work that way, and no one in any shape or form will convince me that they deserve MY respect and I don't deserve theirs' mutually. You have alot to learn, young lady....fortunately you have plenty of time for that. Wait until u get old and turn my age, you'll be sick of everyone following what their told and acting like sheep in a flock.
> 
> You don't get treated BETTER than you treat me. You get treated the EXACT same way you treat me. The sooner everyone learns this, not only can WE be cool, but the rest of the world can learn from it and live in perfect harmony.



oh dear, americans and their "could care less"! its COULDNT! not COULD!

and Victor Creed, next youll be saying you breed parrot cichlids and they come out this colour! that would make my day!









oh and by the way, respect is earnt. respect is given to those who help out others in a helpful manner, not a post about how great you are and what YOU'VE always done!
you do seriously have very high opinions of yourself, when all your coming across as is someone who has bred a few fish, googles a lot and seems to think he is better than everyone else.
this forum isnt for people like you, so i suggest you find another, or maybe just stick to the people who spend loads of cash on your inbred fish


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> oh dear, americans and their "could care less"! its COULDNT! not COULD!
> 
> and Victor Creed, next youll be saying you breed parrot cichlids and they come out this colour! that would make my day!
> image



Fixed, Princess. Anything else you wanna cry and be petty over? Calm down w/ your editing, Boy....don't make me embarrass you again.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Fixed, Princess. Anything else you wanna cry and be petty over?



yeah you missed one of them, your royal highness

EDIT - um, how will or have you embarassed me?


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

brainwashed by the LFS adn incorrect ID? i wasnt. i did my reasonable research on everything i did. so much so that i had the job of IDing the new fish at my LFS at work experience. and i dont CARE if your old enough to be my father - age counts for nothing on here. and if you DO want to go into agism - i bet by your 16th birthday you weren't in talks with publishers about the publishing of your book on fishkeeping?

quite frankly i can see why nobody gave you much respect on here - its earned, not granted. all ive seen you do is cause arguments and bulldozer your ideas through of an 'im right, you're wrong state of mind. and obviously people are going to think theyre right, there hardly going to think their idea is wrong.
oh, and one last thing, its young man, not young lady. thanks 

Harry

PS, please dont leave this forum, as i rather enjoy laughing at your comments


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Someone in this thread needs to stop being an arrogant, condescending little b*tch.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> brainwashed by the LFS adn incorrect ID? i wasnt. i did my reasonable research on everything i did. so much so that i had the job of IDing the new fish at my LFS at work experience. and i dont CARE if your old enough to be my father - age counts for nothing on here. and if you DO want to go into agism - i bet by your 16th birthday you weren't in talks with publishers about the publishing of your book on fishkeeping?
> 
> quite frankly i can see why nobody gave you much respect on here - its earned, not granted. all ive seen you do is cause arguments and bulldozer your ideas through of an 'im right, you're wrong state of mind. and obviously people are going to think theyre right, there hardly going to think their idea is wrong.
> oh, and one last thing, its young man, not young lady. thanks
> ...


You're a GUY? Well why do you act like a female? You are completely out of line and very far from being accurate in what you claim. When I 1st came to this forum I was nothing but nice and respectful towards EVERYONE, and they treated me like dirt cuz they thought i was someone else, cuz I'm an American and for other unknown reasons. You should stop speaking about things you have no IDEA what you are talking about. You have some knowledge, but with age comes experience and LIFE-experience is something you are clearly not keen on. If you spent half as much time researching the human psyche as you did on fish, you'd be a well-rounded person. You seem like a bright kid, so don't grow up and end up like one of these douchebags. 

That's it, I'm done w/ this pointless discussion, I'm ending it right now and I won't have anything more to do with this childish nonsense. You have the truth as stated above, if u want to know more, contact a mod, cuz I'm sick of discussing it. I wasted my 1st 3 weeks on this site having to convince these spoiled-rotten snot-nosed punks. I wasn't some 16 -year-old internet-warrior named "James" and I'm not delving into that again at all. Don't post again until you find out what REALLY happened, THEN you'll understand why i don't care about peoples' delicate little feelings for the most part. Get the FACTS, don't just make claims you can't back up.

And for the record, I learned over 500 latin/greek names for snakes and reptiles by the time i was 13 from books, i knew several hundred species of dinosaurs by the time i was SIX, I've caught at least 5 wild Alligators, 3 species of venomous snakes, and I NEVER had the internet until 2008. I'm smart and intellectually stimulating because I made myself that way......and self-taught in additon to that.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

wow...the last few sentences we have so much in common! and theres a reason people thought you were james...its a bit of a joke you wouldnt understand (a few months back we had a boy that claimed he knew everything and was found to own nothing, or something similar) and people though you were very similar - so you must have done something. and hey - no need to get sexist or and -ist type thing. and i have a very large interest in psychology - i studied it in my spare time. maybe we should meet in person - it would help so much more in understanding each other! and here i give out fish information, as this is a fish forum


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> wow...the last few sentences we have so much in common! and theres a reason people thought you were james...its a bit of a joke you wouldnt understand (a few months back we had a boy that claimed he knew everything and was found to own nothing, or something similar) and people though you were very similar - so you must have done something. and hey - no need to get sexist or and -ist type thing. and i have a very large interest in psychology - i studied it in my spare time. maybe we should meet in person - it would help so much more in understanding each other! and here i give out fish information, as this is a fish forum


Dude, I'm gonna be flat out honest with you.....I don't have a problem w/ anyone on this site, but if real life hasn't changed me (which it drastically has and made me this way), I highly doubt a superficial experience like an internet forum will. I mean....i guess if u don't like me, you can put me on ignore, i know I should probably ignore a few myself, but that's not going to be helping anyone really.

I can be a very nice person, I just got a bad vibe from alot of people when I signed up here, so I don't always take the time to make sure I'm not hurting anyone's feelings. IRL, I'm a total smart*ss and my friends LOVE me for it (and I'm VERY condescending and VERY sarcastic)and we keep each other LOL'ing until our stomachs hurt, but in actuallity, no one should take stuff personal over the internet, and I seen alot of that here so far.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I'm smart and intellectually stimulating because I made myself that way......and self-taught in additon to that.


You're not.

P.S I'm just playing with you.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> You're not.


:no1:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

this is section is suddenly very active; for the wrong reasons, every thread seems to be a bloody argument =/

c'mon guys Fishy section is one of the actually chilled out on RFUK, albeit because most of the time there's hardly any activity :lol2:

relax, and play nice : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm just messing. Victor, chill out and light up a J. Lets have a big fishy hug!


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm just messing. Victor, chill out and light up a J. Lets have a big fishy hug!



wish i had some! im so bored tonight, cant get any cos im skint  boohoo!

on a side note, Victor - you dont seem to understand, you get abused on here because you come across as an arrogant piece of sh*t. on one likes a smart ass, especially one who tries to talk down to everyone.
its not a good look

these last few days is the first ive seen of you on this forum, at all, and from what ive seen in every comment from you so far is that you deont respect other peoples opinions, you just jump straight in with the "im better than you at everything cos i know some dinosaurs and a bit about psychology"
at the end of the day its a forum about fish. not life. FISH

people come here for help and to share their experiences, not to have some idiot who thinks he knows it all preach about it in a way that just gets peoples back up.

so, if you want people to stop giving you hassle or abuse, start speaking to others in a way that you want to be spoken to.

id hate to see a thread where you actually ask for some advice, i doubt anyone would help you.
then again, most of us would because we arent self righteous morons. 
FIN.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Yea, well I'm sort of with you on that, but you're really missing what I'm getting at. The reason I'm coming across in a certain manner is because I've had many people do it to ME. I was returning the favor. Did u see the few posts I just made explaining how everything went down? Basically, the jist I'm getting from the members is the rules of the site are that "Everyone has the right to be arrogant or ignorant except ME". 

Why is everyone jumping down MY throat, yet no one said anything to those other people when I 1st came to the forum and they jumped on me for no reason? That is a total and complete double-standard, Sir. I mean seriously, what is this?.....Everyone-Gang-Up-On-Victor Creed-Day? Surely you can understand why I'm getting defensive when double-standards and hypocrisy is overwhelmingly present. You gotta look at it from my point of view too, man. it should be consistent....it's like being a tough-guy: Don't just be tough towards the little dudes or the people you know you can beat, be tough with EVERYONE, including the big 7 foot, 350 lb. guys that you already KNOW will smash you to pieces. Make sense? I was just using that as an example.


@ Morgan Freeman - I don't smoke weed anymore, but I WILL crack open a nice icy-cold beer. :cheers::beer8:: victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

No idea what happened when you first joined, but no need to be defensive all the time. You clearly do have a good amount of knowledge...but you seem to take things too personally....so crack open that beer!


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I never SAID I knew what the damn fish was, Genius. Try reading before you post, smart*ss. You can look down on my Flowerhorns as much as you want, and while you're looking down, make sure you watch me pocketing all that CASH i get for them from people who pay big bucks for them.:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2::bash::whip:
> 
> 
> ....and i don't need your attitude or arrogance, I was PLENTY humble in every post in this thread, and if you re-read my posts, you'll see I'm merely trying to establish differences to help me recognize a new "species" that I'm not familiar with, so tone it down, Son.


In it for the money? well done.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

The T Lord said:


> In it for the money? well done.



Actually, I just became successful off of what was inevitable, meaning I didn't intentionally breed them, but I am an established breeder.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> Yea, well I'm sort of with you on that, but you're really missing what I'm getting at. The reason I'm coming across in a certain manner is because I've had many people do it to ME. I was returning the favor. Did u see the few posts I just made explaining how everything went down? Basically, the jist I'm getting from the members is the rules of the site are that "Everyone has the right to be arrogant or ignorant except ME".
> 
> Why is everyone jumping down MY throat, yet no one said anything to those other people when I 1st came to the forum and they jumped on me for no reason? That is a total and complete double-standard, Sir. I mean seriously, what is this?.....Everyone-Gang-Up-On-Victor Creed-Day? Surely you can understand why I'm getting defensive when double-standards and hypocrisy is overwhelmingly present. You gotta look at it from my point of view too, man. it should be consistent....it's like being a tough-guy: Don't just be tough towards the little dudes or the people you know you can beat, be tough with EVERYONE, including the big 7 foot, 350 lb. guys that you already KNOW will smash you to pieces. Make sense? I was just using that as an example.
> 
> ...


to be honest, i think you are missing the point. the reason people are coming across like this to you is because this is how you started on the fish forum. forget the others, fish forum. no need to start being all huffy-puffy when most people on here dont know you yet. you obv have a lot of knowledge to put to use - but it will only be understood if you take a more relaxed approach. if you are more civilised and not argumentative, we WILL respect you on here and take on board your opinions.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> to be honest, i think you are missing the point. the reason people are coming across like this to you is because this is how you started on the fish forum. forget the others, fish forum. no need to start being all huffy-puffy when most people on here dont know you yet. you obv have a lot of knowledge to put to use - but it will only be understood if you take a more relaxed approach. if you are more civilised and not argumentative, we WILL respect you on here and take on board your opinions.


Fair enough.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

gazz said:


> Looks like a Jellybean cichlid. That's a Hybrid between a Polly parrot cichlid and a Convict cichlid.
> 
> Convict cichlid. Avalible in pink.
> image
> ...


Ok that really is completely wrong and as usual is another I heard thats what it is and it kinda looks like a mix of both therefor it must be. Breeding a blood parrot with a pink convict does not produce that fish. Genetically it would be impossible to breed a pink convict and a blood parrot and produce a fish that has the pink convict gene as it is recessive, so the mother parrot would have to somehow carry it. The fish as already established and accepted by the OP is a short body pink convict and will continue to be one :whistling2:

And for the rest of you chaps I think you need to take some chill pills :lol2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

BornSlippy said:


> Ok that really is completely wrong and as usual is another I heard thats what it is and it kinda looks like a mix of both therefor it must be. Breeding a blood parrot with a pink convict does not produce that fish. Genetically it would be impossible to breed a pink convict and a blood parrot and produce a fish that has the pink convict gene as it is recessive, so the mother parrot would have to somehow carry it. The fish as already established and accepted by the OP is a short body pink convict and will continue to be one :whistling2:
> 
> And for the rest of you chaps I think you need to take some chill pills :lol2:


One i said looks to be, Not it is, You don't know the history of the fish and wheather it pure or not, As you can't see the markings.

Two do you know for a fact, That the pink trait in Convicts and the pink trait in Red devils is't compatible. 
Example if you breed a Albino Red ratsnake to a Albino californa kingsnake, Two totally differant species you get Albino hybrid offspring.

So how do you know this. (A Pink Red devil).
That could have carryed the pink trait into Polly parrots.









And this,(A Pink Convict) Couldn't give Pink hybrid offspring.









==========
If this,(Albino Red ratsnake).









And this,(Albino Califoria kingsnake).









Can give,(Albino Hybrid offspring) then a Convict and Red devil can also share the same trait in the same way, 
Even though the two species evolved separately.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

gazz said:


> One i said looks to be, Not it is, You don't know the history of the fish and wheather it pure or not, As you can't see the markings.
> 
> Two do you know for a fact, That the pink trait in Convicts and the pink trait in Red devils is't compatible.
> Example if you breed a Albino Red ratsnake to a Albino californa kingsnake, Two totally differant species you get Albino hybrid offspring.
> ...


I know this because I have bred pink convicts with blood parrots. They don't produce that fish. If you could post up some information/images which proves that a pink convict and parrot produce something like you say (as you have done with the snakes) then I would be happy to take you seriously. I've had this argument countless times on fish forums but nobody could ever produce any proof more than what they have heard might be true and random pictures off the net. 

Also short body convicts breed true and breeding a short body to a regular convict yields all regular convict offspring. If what you say is true then wouldn't some end up bigger/orange like red devils/midas? Hybrids don't breed true and show all sorts of differences between individuals from the same spawn. Is a simple short body pink convict that much harder to accept as the truth over some kind of hybrid that had to come from 2 genetically different parent species both somehow carrying the leucistic gene and then line bred over and over so the fry all come out the same yet still be able to produce normal cons when bred with a normal con? Really?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

BornSlippy said:


> I know this because I have bred pink convicts with blood parrots. They don't produce that fish. If you could post up some information/images which proves that a pink convict and parrot produce something like you say (as you have done with the snakes) then I would be happy to take you seriously. I've had this argument countless times on fish forums but nobody could ever produce any proof more than what they have heard might be true and random pictures off the net.
> 
> Also short body convicts breed true and breeding a short body to a regular convict yields all regular convict offspring. If what you say is true then wouldn't some end up bigger/orange like red devils/midas? Hybrids don't breed true and show all sorts of differences between individuals from the same spawn. Is a simple short body pink convict that much harder to accept as the truth over some kind of hybrid that had to come from 2 genetically different parent species both somehow carrying the leucistic gene and then line bred over and over so the fry all come out the same yet still be able to produce normal cons when bred with a normal con? Really?


Please remember i said DO YOU KNOW, NOT I KNOW FOR FACT. If you have bred a Pink convict cichlids to a Polly parrot cichlids and got no pinks and mix shaped hybrid offspring then fair enough. I was just saying that two unrelated species can express trait that are the same, And if bred to gether can result in hybrid offspring of that genetic trait. So your saying that all these pink stumped body cichlids aren't Jellybean parrot cichlids. But are infact Jellybean Convict cichlids(Amatitlania nigrofasciata) That's pure convicts that are expressing a genetic trait for stumped bodys. And it's the same or a similer trait as the Balloon trait seen in Ram cichlid(Mikrogeophagus ramirezi).

Just a question could Polly parrot cichlid infact be pure stumped body Red devil cichlids?.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

gazz said:


> Please remember i said DO YOU KNOW, NOT I KNOW FOR FACT. If you have bred a Pink convict cichlids to a Polly parrot cichlids and got no pinks and mix shaped hybrid offspring then fair enough. I was just saying that two unrelated species can express trait that are the same, And if bred to gether can result in hybrid offspring of that genetic trait. So your saying that all these pink stumped body cichlids aren't Jellybean parrot cichlids. But are infact Jellybean Convict cichlids(Amatitlania nigrofasciata) That's pure convicts that are expressing a genetic trait for stumped bodys. And it's the same or a similer trait as the Balloon trait seen in Ram cichlid(Mikrogeophagus ramirezi).
> 
> Just a question could Polly parrot cichlid infact be pure stumped body Red devil cichlids?.


Yep many fish can have the short body/balloon gene. The oddest ones I have seen were paroon shark catfish and golden algae eaters. It's funny you should say that about parrots as many people do think they are just short body red devil/midas cichlid. I'm not saying thats wrong but I do think they are a hybrid of some sort due to the males being sterile as well as the mouth deformity many have. Plus I have seen true short body devils and they are slightly different. I'm pretty sure the red head cichlid (synspillium) was used as some point as I have actually bred my own parrots from pairing a red head cichlid to a parrot. However even then they are not quite the same as the parrots you see in shops so theres other messing done to produce these.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

BornSlippy said:


> I'm not saying thats wrong but I do think they are a hybrid of some sort due to the *males being sterile* as well as the mouth deformity many have.


Not sure if you've read this ? http://www.swmas.org/swam/articles/red_parrot_cichlid-the-ullisch.pdf . But could the males being sterile be due to hormone treatment ?. Not sure about the mouth could it be link to the stumpy gene ?. Was Polly parrots cichlids made by normal fish breeding or created in a lab ?, Were the genetic could be fully played with.

Here some pictures i've found.

Polly parrot cichlid X Midas cichlid.









Offspring looking more Polly parrot cichlid. Shape and mouth.









Offspring looking more normal in shape and the mouth.









The markings of the fry in the clip below, Looks alot like the fry above ?.
YouTube - F1 Midas Pair with current fry, 17 May 2010


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

gazz said:


> Not sure if you've read this ? http://www.swmas.org/swam/articles/red_parrot_cichlid-the-ullisch.pdf . But could the males being sterile be due to hormone treatment ?. Not sure about the mouth could it be link to the stumpy gene ?. Was Polly parrots cichlids made by normal fish breeding or created in a lab ?, Were the genetic could be fully played with.
> 
> Here some pictures i've found.
> 
> ...


It's possible that is why they are sterile but it only takes one to slip through which will quickly mean fertile males would soon become common. I know my males of the pink convict x parrot were sterile (they tried breeding with their siblings as well as regular convicts). So far it seems all my red head x parrot fry are female or have not tried to breed (shame too because one is perfect).

I've seen those pics before too, basically parrots and midas/devils at an early age start out like that (only parrots have the round body and usually deformed mouth).

I'll start a new thread about my breedings :blush:


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