# Enigma Study 2011 (TESS) is now live!!!



## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

As from yesterday, the 2011 Enigma Study (TESS) is live. Enigma hatchlings can now be registered into the study. Please drop me a line or send me a text if you hatch out an enigma or purchase a 2011 enigma hatchling and you are willing to be included in the study.

If you dont know about the study,there is an in depth article about it in the latest (May) edition of Practical Reptile Keeping. The link below leads to a thread with information about it as well.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/638904-enigma-syndrome-score-t-e.html

The people who have already expressed an interest in taking part will receive a news letter very soon.( hopefully tomorrow. )

Mr. Mike one of the members on here is in the process of tweaking some of the data recording sheets and dealing with the IT aspect of things but geckos can still be entered into the study and initial data recorded as from now. All being well there will be a site up and running very soon that will allow participants to record their data confidentially on line. 

This study is important, Ive already had contact with a Reptile Research vet who has expressed an interest in the problem. However before any scientific research can take place it would need funding. To secure funding evidence of the severity and extent of the problem will be needed and this study could provide this. Please let others know about the study, please mention it when you visit your reptile shop and get them involved. The more animals included in the study the better. Our target is to include 100 enigma hatchlings in the study.
Thanks and best wishes
Mal and the GG Gang and of course Mr Mike


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## C4RL (Jun 9, 2010)

If i hatch any out mal i'll drop you a PM : victory:


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

I can't stress enough how important (and interesting) I think this study is going to be. Especially with the prospect of further studies coming from it. Anyone who is breeding and/or buying Enigma hatchlings this year please consider taking part. Mal has put a lot of effort into getting everything in place, and I know how much he believes in it as well.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Carl and Mike.

I have just looked at the work Mike (Mr.Mike) has done to help with the study. He has kindly set up an on line resource where study participants can simply submit their data ol. It will only take a couple of minutes to record the initial date and literally only a minute for the 4 weekly updates. It really is a simple process but those few minutes of your time can have a massive impact on the outcome of the study. Everything is of course confidential, I will be the only person with a record of who owns each included gecko and that record will be destroyed at the end of the study.

I know people may get a little bored with hearing about TESS. However this is an important study and to make it work we need to maintain awareness of the project to get as many participants as possible. Please keep spreading the word.

I would also like to take the opportunity to say a big thankyou to Mike. The work he has done and the help he has given me has been fantastic. It has saved us hours of work and made taking part in the study so much easier for people. Many many thanks Mike, 

Thanks for your time folks.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

great news Mal ~ wishing you well with the study :2thumb:


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## xxx-dztini-xxx (May 12, 2009)

look forward to the results
id i know anyone who hatches one will pass this along


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## 53bird (Sep 30, 2009)

MrMike said:


> I can't stress enough how important (and interesting) I think this study is going to be. Especially with the prospect of further studies coming from it. Anyone who is breeding and/or buying Enigma hatchlings this year please consider taking part. Mal has put a lot of effort into getting everything in place, and I know how much he believes in it as well.


 
i completly agree with mike, and i wish you the best of luck mal 

also if i have any thing i will let you know : victory:


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## Lozza.Bella (Apr 24, 2010)

You already have my e-mail addy Mal, so as and when just forward me the details, as you know I won't be hatching any till later on in the season, but all the same, the more recordings we can collect the better for a more accurate analysis, 
Good luck guys and I wish everyone a healthy breeding season.
Laura.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks everyone.
Ive just emailed the 1st newsletter to people who have expressed an interest in taking part. If you havent received it and would like a copy please drop me a pm with your email.

Laura, Ive been trawling through all my pms etc and Im sorry but I cant find your email addy. I know you gave it to me. Could I ask that you let me have it again please. Im hoping you will be producing some absolutly stunning enigmas later in the season. Youve certainly got the geckos to do it.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Mal said:


> I would also like to take the opportunity to say a big thankyou to Mike. The work he has done and the help he has given me has been fantastic. It has saved us hours of work and made taking part in the study so much easier for people. Many many thanks Mike,


No problem at all Mal, just helping out where I can.


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

*Very best of luck with the study..........*

_*We won't be hatching or buying any Enigma's due to all the issues sourrounding them, but of course are heartily behind this study and will be very very interested to see the results. Please do keep me posted!!
Anything we can do to help, just ask, :2thumb: 
all the best Lunar and family*_


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks for the email! Very exciting news!


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Lunar, your words of support really are appreciated. Im glad you got the news letter ok Sarah, things are looking quite promising. I just hope we get enough animals into the study to make it a success. Its that limbo stage now waiting for the first enigmas of the season to be hatched. Im sure it wont be long now. The first person this season to post news of their enigma hatchling isnt going to know whats hit em. They will be pounced and dragged off to get the study underway.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Just as I was about to log off, I received a pm. We have our first study participant and when I send him details to get logged into the TESS site etc the study will officially be underway.:2thumb:


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

Mal said:


> I know people may get a little bored with hearing about TESS..


No offence meant, and this may be a little harsh, but those who claim to be passionate about their animals, and who take on an enigma leopard gecko should least of all be bored.

Fair enough some may choose not to take part, but if anyone gets "sick" of hearing about this, they should not be keeping animals, let alone enigmas, as, in my honest opinion, which I am entitled to, open-mindedness and willing to learn, help, study is all part of keeping reptiles. Not just buy, breed, get money then get bored. There are so many unheard symptons and problems arising of late, not just in leopard geckos, so if I ever see anyone stating how research and study like this is ridiculous or the like, I will be quite upset to see that. There are those of us who may not be able to take part, but support is a massive help to folks like you and spreading word.

I don't keep enigmas, and only keep four leopards as pets, but I have read over your threads, and been keeping my eye on the issues, and I think you and all involved are doing a fantastic job, all the best with this study, I believe it is important.

Jac


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks for your very supportive comments Jac, they really are appreciated. The study has had a few people thinking its a futile effort or a waste of time but 95% of those who have commented to me about it or posted on the threads have been very positive. I think you have to accept with any form of study there will be a small number of people ready to knock it. To be honest, such people can be beneficial to the study. It can make you think of the features they are negative about so that if appropriate you can alter things for the 'better'. Im the one that was worried about boring people with it. Its a difficult thing to keep in balance. For the study to be a success we need to keep it in the public eye but its human nature that if we get too much of an 'advert' we tend to switch off from it. Im sure it will all work out in the end and hopefully we will obtain useful data which in turn may lead to even greater things.

The TESS site is up and running now. The first study participant received his geckos registration number yesterday and has submitted his initial data. Were officially up and running !!!

Thanks for your support everyone.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

That's excellent news Mal; all I can do is wish you the very best of luck with the study. I hope that other members realise the hard work that you and Mike have put in to getting this off the ground and give you the support the study really does deserve.

And as for worrying that people are getting bored hearing about TESS...well, I'm sure that anyone with half a brain will understand that you need to recruit participants for the study and hence your need to bump your threads etc. And, to be perfectly blunt, it actually makes a refreshing change to have such a worthwhile thread on here these days : victory:


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

I wish i was still breeding, as i'd have LOVED to have taken part in this study, as i did have an enima male, which i had paired to most of my females, and produced some lovely enimga babies. saldy i no longer keep leo's on the large scale. i only have the one little lad.


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## DavidStaffs (Jul 13, 2009)

Just want to say well done to Mal, and all the team, for this study and well written article in PRK. Not sure if I'll be breeding my enigma this season but I am hoping to get a nice mack snow enigma (het tremper if I'm really lucky) as some point this season so really hope one way or the other I can help provide data for this much needed study.


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## novas (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm still a novice but found the article in PRK a really interesting read, best of luck to everyone involved!


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thankyou for your very kind words and support folks. It really is appreciated. We have two geckos in the study now so its a positive start. It was a sigh of relief when we got the first participant.

Im glad you liked the PRK article. I have Val (Olivine) to thank for proof reading the original article before I sent it to PRK. 

Good luck with your Enigmas David, and if you buy rather than breed you would still be able to include it in the study. If you buy from a breeder who has already included the gecko in the study its simply a case of transferring a few details, making a note of accomodation changes and continuing. If you buy from a shop its a full registration but only takes a few minutes.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

Hope this goes well for you and maybe the results should be made a sticky!


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

Hi Mal here's wishing you the very best of luck with the study.You are a :no1:guy .As you know i no longer breed leos but i will encourage all i know with enigmas to sign and help with the study.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Best of luck and please keep us updated. Im interested in the news letter too :2thumb:
I have just started keeping enigmas and breeding them so I am highly interested! 

Keep up the good work :no1:


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## della.g (Nov 5, 2006)

If i hatch any enigmas i shall be joining the study. Look forward to seeing the results of this and wonder if it would be possible if you could keep us updated as to how many people actually participate.

Adele


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Once again thanks for the support everyone, its appreciated. I hope that towards the end of the year we will have some interim results. However the study doesnt conclude until the last gecko entered into it reaches 12 months of age so it would be wrong to try and draw any conclusions from an interim report. It could be close to two years before the full results are available. I would hope to publish the results in PRK and on all the forums (especially this one) that have been receptive to the study.


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## norfendz (Jun 30, 2008)

can anyone get me a link to a site explaining more about engima's as i dont know much about them and cant find out anything either. good luck with the study


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## JRoss (Aug 31, 2009)

This experiment would be complemented by a genetic analysis. I have a theory but It wouldn't be feasible to test in my Lab as I don't have any enigmas anymore and the genetic sequence for the leopard gecko hasn't been fully sequenced. Does anyone have a description of all of the symptoms of 'Enigma syndrome'?


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Ive not had much opportunity to get ol over the last couple of weeks. TESS goes on though and we have a number of animals entered into the study. However we still need many many more to make this a viable and statistically relevent study. Please please if your breeding or purchasing enigmas this season enter them into the study. It will only take a few minutes of your time but the data you supply will be of tremendous value. Please spread the word.

J.Ross did you get hold of a list of symptoms. If not drop me a pm and I will send you a bit of info when I get a chance.


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## PSGeckos (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Mal

Found your post at last 

Its very positive what your doing, and i will look through our hard drive for the Enigma reports we had done along with DD and forward onto you? if ok pm me your email

Pete


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## kezzbag (Jan 16, 2011)

i kno im gonna sound stupid....but what is enigma?...i kno its something in leo's but not sure what lol.....i thought it was sum sort of funny morph lol:blush:


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## dmiles310 (May 1, 2009)

kezzbag said:


> i kno im gonna sound stupid....but what is enigma?...i kno its something in leo's but not sure what lol.....i thought it was sum sort of funny morph lol:blush:


 
Enigma is a leo morph

Enigma - Leopard Gecko Wiki


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## Kris_sayer (Mar 16, 2007)

its a gene that enhances ther morph of your gecko.


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## NewtyBoy (Jun 4, 2011)

After reading this and done research on the web, I am concerned that my LG may be enigma, how can you tell?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

NewtyBoy said:


> After reading this and done research on the web, I am concerned that my LG may be enigma, how can you tell?


Post a pic


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## sazzle (Jun 3, 2008)

best idea is to pop a pic up on the forum  x


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

NewtyBoy said:


> After reading this and done research on the web, I am concerned that my LG may be enigma, how can you tell?


It will be doing a wall of death round it's viv and on fire 

Well it would be if you listen to the urban myths.....

Seriously - it should be easy to ID your Leo off a pic, one big hint is the eyes, they are usually a rusty brown/orangey colour. Very often they are white/spotty in the tail too


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## NewtyBoy (Jun 4, 2011)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-pictures/714798-gem-leopard-gecko.html

This a thread from when I posted pics before. Nobody mentioned any enigma at the time. I could get newer photos if needed, also some of the eyes, however, I think the eyes are dark green.


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## sazzle (Jun 3, 2008)

just look like hypos hun x


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## NewtyBoy (Jun 4, 2011)

Great stuff, thanks for taking a look for me 

I just don't know much about enigma, but if it could cause potential future problems, I would rather not risk having any LG with the gene.


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## cok (Aug 15, 2011)

sure no problem with that my pleasure to become part of that study


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## nickcradd067 (Jan 27, 2010)

Mal said:


> This study is important, Ive already had contact with a Reptile Research vet who has expressed an interest in the problem. However before any scientific research can take place it would need funding. To secure funding evidence of the severity and extent of the problem will be needed and this study could provide this. Please let others know about the study, please mention it when you visit your reptile shop and get them involved. The more animals included in the study the better. Our target is to include 100 enigma hatchlings in the study.
> Thanks and best wishes
> Mal and the GG Gang and of course Mr Mike


Do you have a scientific background at all? Have you tried contacting any universities and seeing if they have already collected any data on this subject area and just not got round to publishing it yet? Would save your requirements for funding because a group of PhD or even undergraduates could process the findings for you. I have a contact that I can try for you and will let you know. Not sure if he is still working at the university or not though.

Plus an acedemic affiliation will be needed in order to get the findings published because unfortunately journals and other publishers of scientific literature wont touch work done by "amateurs" as they see them. Good luck though and keep the good work going!


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

*My gecko*

I'm worried about my gecko now, i hope he isnt an enigma. Heres a picture.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Lozzypozz said:


> I'm worried about my gecko now, i hope he isnt an enigma. Heres a picture.
> 
> image


Is that head tilt normal? Does he star-gaze at all or wander around in circles if stressed?
Looks enigma - freckly-speckles tends to suggest it.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Ophexis said:


> Is that head tilt normal? Does he star-gaze at all or wander around in circles if stressed?
> Looks enigma - freckly-speckles tends to suggest it.


 
When i got him, the owner said he had a face injury which he didnt know how he got. One eye is half open, and he has a slight gap in the side of his mouth. I havent taken him to the vets yet as iv only just got him. And the owner before said he had taken him to the vets and there was nothing that could be done, that it was an old injury. Hence why i thought thats why he is slightly different to my other geckos, he is fat and healthy, and eats fine, but yes he does circle  and he star gazes. Could this mean he has the enigma syndrome? Shall i say this to the vet? because i want to get the side of his face checked out anyway. And does anyone know what morph he is? Because a person on the other thread said he wasent a super snow enigma, which is what the owner told me he was.


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## mariober (Mar 17, 2011)

Nhin phat khiep di duoc


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## Lancelot (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm far from an expert but the pail tail looks like he's one. super snow enigma - googled it and does look that type.
If he's living a happy normal life and isn't stressed and is eating properly i wouldn't worry about it but the enigma label would help ease that this guys not got a neck injury.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Im sorry but having been rather unwell and numerous other problems in the last couple of months Ive had to put the Enigma study on the back burner for a while. A number of people have contacted me over the last few weeks about things and if I havent replied I will be trying to get in touch with you over the weekend. I havent forgotten you.

Please can I ask that everyone taking part updates their data. I have written to half of the people registered into the study and will hopefully be in touch with the other half over the next few days. I hope to get some interrim results published here and possibly in PRK in the very near future.

As the study hasnt achieved its target number of geckos we will be running an additional element to the study. I am in the process of setting up an ' on line ' questionairre that ALL enigma owners will be invited to complete. This will not have the 2011 hatchling or UK restriction. Please watch out for details about this. (please dont contact me about phase 2 yet).

Thats it for now, just wanted to let you all know TESS is still alive and kicking.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

nickcradd067 said:


> Plus an acedemic affiliation will be needed in order to get the findings published because unfortunately journals and other publishers of scientific literature wont touch work done by "amateurs" as they see them. Good luck though and keep the good work going!


Not really related to the enigma study _per se_, but worth pointing out that this is completely untrue. Any study which addresses questions relevant to the specific journal in a scientifically sound manner is eligible for publication, and will be reviewed on its merit. Academic affiliation has no bearing on this whatsoever (and it shouldn't). You will see a bias towards those with academic affiliation if you were to search through journals, but this is only because funding for science is awarded to research institutions. There is plenty of good science (albeit mainly descriptive) coming from non-academics.

Andy


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

Mal's study is only the precursor to an academic study, if I remember right, there is a vet interested in running a proper study, but he needs sufficient evidence to gain funding. so Mal has set up TESS to get the initial data needed to try to gain funding for a professional study to be done, then we might finally get some answers.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Lozzypozz said:


> I'm worried about my gecko now, i hope he isnt an enigma. Heres a picture.
> 
> image


 
Iv spoken to Mal and my gecko has got the enigma syndrome, and his condition is only getting worse :| After trying pretty much everything, i am having to consider all options  Going to take him to the vet to get a final opinion but i am having to help him shed now, and hes stopped eating  So unsure of what to do now....


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## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

GlasgowGecko said:


> Not really related to the enigma study _per se_, but worth pointing out that this is completely untrue. Any study which addresses questions relevant to the specific journal in a scientifically sound manner is eligible for publication, and will be reviewed on its merit. Academic affiliation has no bearing on this whatsoever (and it shouldn't). You will see a bias towards those with academic affiliation if you were to search through journals, but this is only because funding for science is awarded to research institutions. There is plenty of good science (albeit mainly descriptive) coming from non-academics.
> 
> Andy


Andy is absolutely correct about this. There is nothing to stop anyone from publishing a paper, as long as they conform to the submission requirements of the journal. I have a friend and regular collaborator, who is not an academic and he carries out work and writes papers. Sometimes the publications also have an academic (me, usually!) as a co-author, but not always.

With regard to earlier comments, I'm extremely doubtful that there will ever be much funding for this project, but it could progress via an undergraduate student or maybe an MSc student project. I've even mentioned this to Mal and will see if any of my students fancy having a go at something like this (if they are wanted, of course).

However, the academic funding bodies will never fund something like this, though, unless there is a different angle (ie that the knowledge gained has some wider significance). Their view would be that there is no reason why the enigmas need to be bred, so there is no reason to fund the study. The only other way would be for all the big breeders to contribute funds to pay for a full study. This will not be cheap. It's one thing to do a survey of the severity of the disease - and even that is proving difficult, but a full genetic study will take a long time and will cost a huge amount.

Hats off to Mal for his efforts. I hope I'm wrong and that something useful comes from the study. I'm certainly keen to see what comes out of it.


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

I was completely unaware of enigma syndrome until I recently bought an adult male Enigma from a pet shop. I was drawn to him by his beautiful tail and had a staff member check his age as I intended to use him for breeding and made this very clear.

At no point while I was in the shop did anyone mention that the gecko had a genetic disorder. I took him home and housed him with a new female (HYPO Carrot Tail). He showed some initial interest in the female but after a couple of tail shakes he just started circling, then staring into space and the circling again, occasionally losing his balance and rolling onto his back. The next day I rang the shop (30 miles from my house) and they just said all Enigmas suffer from this and he can breed. Refusing to accept this, I took him back to the shop abd ended up having a stand up row with the owner.

He eventually agreed to exchange the gecko but I had to pay a 20% "restocking charge". During the argument he let slip that he routinely breeds snakes and lizards with genetic disorders, deformities and all the rest of it. The owner and his staff seemed to think that genetic disorders are just a fact of life when breeding reptiles. I disagree.

Good luck with the study.


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## SaSobek (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey all of you across the pond. 

Some how I came across you guys were doing this study on enigmas. 

I would like to let you know that if you would like any Info that I might have on them I would be more then willing to help you guys. I have hatched out a few in my day  but like a lot of you after seeing what they acted like and how some of them had difficulties to thrive in some cases, I chose not to breed them any longer. Actually there is a few other reasons that I stopped as well that I can get into more later. 

I can tell you it is neurological. Basically it is a vestibular disorder that causes lack of balance and the world to the gecko is spinning. That is what causes the head tilt and the walking in circles. 

I have found that babies that are in later clutches from the same female are worse in their symptoms. 

Some crosses make it worse as well. Out crossing to subspecies or wild types sometimes can make it better. but not always. 

It is amplified by stress. shipping, breeding, ect. 

when they were first debuted and sold to the public. They were randomly hets for different things and buyers were not notified. what this caused was a genetic mixing of different albino strains and the loss of purity in that line. This was cause by the original US breeder thought that the "Red eyed enigma" was a super form. this of course was not true and it was just a bell enigma. unfortunately before the release of the enigmas to the public the Red Eyed ones were bred to Tremper blazzing blizzards causing a mixture of the two albino strains. these geckos were sold as is and no one knew. This caused a muddying of the waters of any line that was bred to the enigmas. 

Because of this I had to actually go through my collection and I gave away all of my enigmas and siblings and anything that was from any line that had enigma bred into it. so basically I had to restart a lot of my collection. I didn't have to do this but I didn't want to take any chances in mixing of any albino strains. It was a Pain in the @$$ hahahahah 

I still do own 2 enigmas but I wont bred them any longer. They are just pets to me at this point. One just so happens to be my Male Dreamsickle, Mr Dreamy. what he looks like now 









He was the first one ever made and just has always been special to me. he is now 4 years old. 

I hope this helps if you need any more info I would love to help.


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## ashley marriott (Apr 24, 2012)

*help*

hi i have just got a bosc monitor and she is a year old .she has got out of her viv and wont let me pick her up she keep hissin and wippin should i just get her or will she bite


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

ashley marriott said:


> hi i have just got a bosc monitor and she is a year old .she has got out of her viv and wont let me pick her up she keep hissin and wippin should i just get her or will she bite


You need to start a new thread if you want to ask a question.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

SaSobek said:


> Hey all of you across the pond.
> 
> Some how I came across you guys were doing this study on enigmas.
> 
> ...


Hi Matt
Sorry, my life has been so screwed up recently I had forgotten about this thread until today. Now the data collection aspect of the study is complete I was just going to ask for the thread to be closed.

Your post is interesting but there is a considerable difference between a neurological and a vestibular disorder. Neurological is connected with the brain and nerve conduction whilst vestibular problems relate to the balance organs in the inner ear. Im led to believe that neither of these have been confirmed at autopsy. Hopefully the study were undertaking will lead to full scientific study that will explore this. The areas we are looking at are in Phase 1 the incidence of Enigma Syndrome amongst hatchlings in the first 12 months of life from the 2011 breeding season. We are also looking at the syndrome status of parent enigmas etc for this group. Unfortunately its been a struggle to get continued data submission with the rapid turn around of hatchling owners. Phase 2 of the study is looking at the Enigma population in the UK and Ireland as a whole. As well as looking at incidence and severity of the syndrome, it explores such things as communication and awareness of the syndrome at the time of purchase. Sadly many people have bought Enigmas totally unaware of potential problems or worse, they have been unaware they even own an Enigma. A very sad state of affairs really.

I read in your post that you had got rid of your enigmas and were no longer working with them. I did just however glance at your Facebook page and see you have recently hatched out a stunning Enigma. Is there some development in the Enigma world that has made you re evaluate your stance and start working with them again ?


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## mariex4 (Oct 19, 2009)

well done mal ,you should be proud for doing this. And also everybody who has taken the time to help mal with it,ie there enigmas. well done xx:no1:


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## NightmareWings (Jun 19, 2012)

Both my mac snows have the syndrome. Shiva cant catch her food properly and isis shakes when she walks. But that doesnt stop me loving them.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Finally.....its finished. Results should be posted sometime tomorrow.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Woohoo! Go Mal!


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

nuttybabez said:


> Woohoo! Go Mal!


Sarah, just the person. The results are posted !!! Please can you have a look and if you think appropriate, remove this sticky and put the results thread in its place. There are two Enigma threads running at the moment, one with the results and the other for discussion. 
Many thanks.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

This ones run its course, thankyou folks. Results now stickyed.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/943188-enigma-syndrome-study-tess-results.html
Appropriate time to lock this one.


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