# the law on pigeons



## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

what would the law be about catching pigeons from the wild i mean ones that are rung near by my house would it be legal or ilegal to catch them


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Why are you wanting to catch them? If they have leg rings they are strictly protected.


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

If its the dirty pigoens who crap all over our streets then they are classed as vermin.
Personally i wouldnt touch the dirty infested things.


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## 2manydogs (Oct 23, 2007)

depends on whether you have permission to be there and what methods you use.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

If they are 'rung' are they not owned by someone???

If you catch them you can contact the racing pigeon people, I found it on the net, they can then let you know who owns the bird. If that person doesn't want it returned then they may let you have it.

If you wanted to catch them to use as feed for animals, ferrets etc, then i would think that was illegal.

As someone said unrung birds are vermin and can be caught and killed quite legally


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

SilverSteno said:


> Why are you wanting to catch them? If they have leg rings they are strictly protected.


 
dont know who ever told you this no pigeon in this country is protected am talking race birds and stuff av not long found one and its owner is sending someone to pick her up she has been missing for a while and they are so glad to get her back


so am talking missing race and fancy birds


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

Antw23uk said:


> If its the dirty pigoens who crap all over our streets then they are classed as vermin.
> Personally i wouldnt touch the dirty infested things.


Pigeons get a bad rep. I think they're quite sweet.


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## ditzychick (Aug 21, 2009)

adamntitch said:


> dont know who ever told you this no pigeon in this country is protected am talking race birds and stuff av not long found one and its owner is sending someone to pick her up she has been missing for a while and they are so glad to get her back
> 
> 
> so am talking missing race and fancy birds


I think maybe they meant beacause it was owned by someone. We used to have quite a few where i used to live. All but one were returned to owners. So far as unrung birds, they are quite tasty:whistling2:


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

adamntitch said:


> dont know who ever told you this no pigeon in this country is protected am talking race birds and stuff av not long found one and its owner is sending someone to pick her up she has been missing for a while and they are so glad to get her back
> 
> 
> so am talking missing race and fancy birds


Yes, ringed pigeons are protected - it is illegal to kill or harm a pigeon that is ringed as they belong to someone. Turtle doves, stock doves and I think rock doves are all strictly protected under the law here also, so it isn't true that no pigeon is unprotected here. It is illegal to trap or shoot either of those three species. People who shoot have to be very careful not to shoot one of these species otherwise they are in trouble. 

If you find a missing pet pigeon then yes, you can attempt to catch it in order to return it to the owner.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Cranwelli said:


> Pigeons get a bad rep. I think they're quite sweet.


 
I totally agree with you :2thumb:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> dont know who ever told you this no pigeon in this country is protected am talking race birds and stuff av not long found one and its owner is sending someone to pick her up she has been missing for a while and they are so glad to get her back
> 
> 
> so am talking missing race and fancy birds


 But initially you asked about catching them "from the wild" which would imply that you weren#t refering to ornamentals etc. You are aware that if a racer has not returned to the loft and got lost etc, the chances are that it will be 'necked'. Only birds which return promptly are worth feeding. They aren't kept as pets and ones which are not good enough to win races, suffer the same fate as slow greyhounds and horses.
Racing Pigeons

Killing Pigeons for Ego, Money, and Fun


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I know of a lady who de-rings racing pigeons and rehabilitates them to save them from this fate:whistling2:


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## vipera (May 28, 2007)

*racers*

i think that it's rather unfair to tar all the racing people with the same brush.
i have picked up many strays over the years, and many owners were only too pleased for someone to have taken the time and trouble to help their birds.
whilst in every sport there are people who are ruthless and have to win at all costs, there are others for whom merely taking part is reward enough.

i have kept birds that weren't wanted back, but many have been collected via courier (expensive for the owner).
for every owner that has left me angry there have been others who have restored my faith in human nature.

my favourite was years back when i had a tired bird bird handed in to me, i duly contacted the owner, expecting the often lack lustre response but what i got was very different.
he turned out to be a charming elderly gentleman from the midlands, we exchanged details and addresses. it transpired the bird had flown from Rennes in france, before stopping in devon 
he asked if i wouldn't mind caring for him and offered to send me some money to buy food for him, which i declined.

i kept the bird for around a week (it had been very hot and the bird was more tired and dehydrated than flown out)

the pigeon was soon very fit, so rather than a courier his owner wanted him released to make his own way home, we then agreed a release day and time.
the next morning he phoned to tell me that he'd made it home.
a few days passed and then five pounds arrived in the post along with a thankyou letter. 
then at christmas a card arrived from him, and for a good few years thereafter. i was sad when they stopped as i assumed that to mean that he'd passed away.

my point here being that undoubtedly some of these birds aren't wanted back, but lots are and unless you contact the owner you cannot tell what sort of person they are.


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## jack_rep (Sep 11, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I know of a lady who de-rings racing pigeons and rehabilitates them to save them from this fate:whistling2:


Well if you do that the pigeon will likely find its way back to the loft and then appear to the owner as a stray bird occupying the loft... if it persists its going to end up getting "necked". Little bit counter productive?



fenwoman said:


> Only birds which return promptly are worth feeding. They aren't kept as pets and ones which are not good enough to win races, suffer the same fate as slow greyhounds and horses.


lol where did you read that? Jesus. 

Anyway....

I grew up with racing pigeons, my dad raced and reared them from 9 years old (along with his dad... and so on and so on ect), until bad health forced him to give him up in recent years.

If you catch a ringed bird its likely that it will have a removable rubber or plastic ring on with the owners name and address. Failing that, the permanent sealed ring have serial numbers on which can be used to trace the owner, id say contact some pigeon fancier forum for details. We used to occasionally get calls of people saying they found our birds, and we would gratefully pick them up every time.

Catching and retaining a ringed bird is immoral obviously, but if you make no effort to contact the owner and retain it knowing full well it is not your property then that's theft by appropriation/finding. However, fact is though who on earth is ever going to find out?

Catching wild pigeons... Well apart from you looking pretty daft chasing pigeons round a high street, i cant see how you could get into trouble with it? They are regarded as a pest. No one would lock u up for catching rats would they?

Wood pigeons and things id say be wary off, could possibly be protected?


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## 2manydogs (Oct 23, 2007)

wood pigeons are pests thats why you can shoot them .


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

jack_rep said:


> Well if you do that the pigeon will likely find its way back to the loft and then appear to the owner as a stray bird occupying the loft... if it persists its going to end up getting "necked". Little bit counter productive?
> 
> 
> Its never happened yet. She always checks whether the bird is wanted back first just in case its valuable or a special bird to the owner.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

thanks for all replys


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

i found a wild pigeon once which couldnt fly and so i picked it up and put it in my pocket and took it home. my mum was pretty pissed off and made me take it back after a few hours so i took it to near where i found it and put it at the bottom of a bush to hope a fox wouldnt eat it and that was that.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

vipera said:


> i think that it's rather unfair to tar all the racing people with the same brush.


Why is it unfair? If the majority if not all, cull then what's unfair? As a poultry breeder I cull all my surplus cockerels. They serve no purpose except to become food.
Sadly, surplus and unwanted racing pigeons are of no use at all. With every loft owner, breeding dozens of birds in a season, do you think he has the space and endless money to keep feeding useless stock? Those useless, slow birds who take weeks to get home cannot be allowed to breed either as the aim is to breed fast birds. If you think otherwise, you are very naive I'm afraid. It's well known that millions of racing pigeons get culled every year.



> i have picked up many strays over the years, and many owners were only too pleased for someone to have taken the time and trouble to help their birds.


 Just stop and think about this a minute. Would the owner of the bird you 'helped' really turn up at your door and say "blasted bird is no bleddy good to me . I'll wring it's neck when I get back to the car"? Or will he smile, say "thank you so much, little Peanut here is my favourite little birdy", and then wring it's back on the way back to the car so that yet another naive person doesn't get to realise just how awful the racing industry is and how many animals die if they don't make the grade.



> whilst in every sport there are people who are ruthless and have to win at all costs, there are others for whom merely taking part is reward enough.


 awww bless you. Can I borrow your rose tinted specs please?
Winning is all that matters. A loft costs thousands to build. Good racers can cost tens of thousands of pounds and so do the chicks of any successful racers. A loft of 50+ birds will cost a fortune every month in proper pigeon mixes, supplements etc etc. They race them in the hope of winning enough proze money to hopefully cover some of their outlay.



> i have kept birds that weren't wanted back, but many have been collected via courier (expensive for the owner).


 which courier do they use? I may need to ship poultry.



> for every owner that has left me angry there have been others who have restored my faith in human nature.


 well nobody wants to appear horrible so of course they won't admit to culling birds.



> my favourite was years back when i had a tired bird bird handed in to me, i duly contacted the owner, expecting the often lack lustre response but what i got was very different.
> he turned out to be a charming elderly gentleman from the midlands, we exchanged details and addresses. it transpired the bird had flown from Rennes in france, before stopping in devon
> he asked if i wouldn't mind caring for him and offered to send me some money to buy food for him, which i declined.
> 
> ...


 I can understand this happening occasionally with a normally good racer wo is worth rather a lot of money, but for birds which are late a few times and just don't race well, their fate is sealed. How can you tell which bird is which?
How do you know that the bird really did arrive home?



> my point here being that undoubtedly some of these birds aren't wanted back, but lots are and unless you contact the owner you cannot tell what sort of person they are.


 Most late birds and underperformers are not wanted. They are literally not worth the feed they eat. Even if you contact the owner, you cannot be sure what sort of person they are. In fact, as human beings, they may be nice people. They can still cull surplus birds though. If you spoke to me, you'd hear how I love chickens, yet don't eat eggs. I simply like chickens. I enjoy showing my chickens too. I like breeding and seeing what quality I can produce for the show bench. You'd think me a nice lady who obviously loves her birds. I would not of course necessarily tell you that I kill and eat most of the cockerels I hatch out. So by not mentioning it, am I a nicer person that if I did mention it?

I don't particularly have anything against anyone killing surplus pigeons. Even better if they get eaten and not wasted. I just wanted to point out to people who imagine that most pigeon racers have little retirement lofts for birds which are too slow, they don't. The birds get killed even if the owner doesn't actually tell you so.And most won't tell you because people are a bit squeamish about animals getting killed.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Surplus and unwanted racing pigeons are of no use at all.


Well you could ofcourse eat them rather than neck and bin.I woudn't go running round town catching feral pigeions.
But i'd have no problem eating my own stock.

My uncle used to keep slow birds in the flock for the falcons.As they would be more likely taken than a prize bird.
Or rather stack the odds of a prize bird being taken.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> How can you tell which bird is which?
> How do you know that the bird really did arrive home?.


They have there fixed rings with a ID code.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> Well you could ofcourse eat them rather than neck and bin.I woudn't go running round town catching feral pigeions.
> But i'd have no problem eating my own stock.
> 
> My uncle used to keep slow birds in the flock for the falcons.As they would be more likely taken than a prize bird.
> Or rather stack the odds of a prize bird being taken.


 If I kept racing pigeons, I would have to eat them as it's disrespectful to kill an animal and throw it away.As you know, I already keep animals for meat. But a good idea too to use them to keep the more valuable birds safe.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> They have there fixed rings with a ID code.


 Yes I know that, but just because the owner says "oh yes, it arrived safely and is tucked up in bed with a hot water bottle and a mills and boon novel":lol2:
Don't mean it actually happened.:whistling2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Yes I know that, but just because the owner says "oh yes, it arrived safely and is tucked up in bed with a hot water bottle and a mills and boon novel":lol2:
> Don't mean it actually happened.:whistling2:


Yes but if the bird didn't tern up.Would you on top of that send out a thank you letter with £5 for a bird you don't have.This person didn't know the person that recused his bird.So really didn't need to contact them any more.Let alone send them money on top of a loss of bird.


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## Joe1507 (Aug 11, 2008)

I actually like pigeons, i always think of them as doves that arnt white.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Joe1507 said:


> I actually like pigeons, i always think of them as doves that arnt white.


There is't really no differance between Dove and Pigeon they mean the same thing.

Dove is English for Dove.

Pigeon is French for Dove.

people hear the word "pigeon," they think of a pest, a "winged rat." When they hear the word "dove," they may think of a symbol of peace and love. But white doves of peace are simply white pigeons.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> There is't really no differance between Dove and Pigeon they mean the same thing.
> 
> Dove is English for Dove.
> 
> ...


 And both can make a real mess of your nice clean laundry when you hang it out :lol2:


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## wolves121121 (Mar 27, 2008)

its not just there own pigeons they kill i know of 4 pigeon flyers in the area i work (i also work with one) who use baited traps to kill the local sparrowhawks and peregrines.

apparently there doing it for the local song birds


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

wolves121121 said:


> its not just there own pigeons they kill i know of 4 pigeon flyers in the area i work (i also work with one) who use baited traps to kill the local sparrowhawks and peregrines.
> 
> apparently there doing it for the local song birds


If they are then they need reporting as that is illegal to kill any birds of prey.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Its not illegal at all. We have to shoot loads of the bloody things every year as they get into the barn and can carry diseases which could be passed onto the foals. There are buyers who will also buy any dead pigeons off you, although you would need to have a gun licence to shoot them of course.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

SilverSteno said:


> If they are then they need reporting as that *is illegal to kill any birds of prey*.





girlsnotgray said:


> *Its not illegal at all*. We have to shoot loads of the bloody things every year as they get into the barn and can carry diseases which could be passed onto the foals. There are buyers who will also buy any dead pigeons off you, although you would need to have a gun licence to shoot them of course.


The RSPB: Birds of prey


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Umm pigeons arent birds of prey? However you are NOt allowed to shoot sparrowhawks!


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## PythonPaul (Dec 21, 2008)

Fenwoman why would someone spend money to travel somewhere to collect a pigeon to kill it ? Why would they pay to have a courier collect a pigeon to kill it ? All they have to do is offer it to the person reporting it to keep it, that way money is saved and the bird lives, everybody is happy


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Cranwelli said:


> Pigeons get a bad rep. I think they're quite sweet.


 
Ditto... I like pigeons. But I also handreared two orphan wild rats last year. 

I remember finding a beautiful pure white pigeon outside asda once.... He was sitting on an advertising A frame and since it was dark, I walked up to him, cuz I thought it was odd that he wasn't roosted somewhere high. And as soon as I got near, he started making baby noises and fluffing up. I put my hand under his belly and he dutifully stepped up. No ring, so nobody was interested in helping him even though he was obviously a handreared pet. He lived in our back yard until he decided to go off with some wild pigeons. Lovely bird. :flrt:


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

girlsnotgray said:


> Its not illegal at all. We have to shoot loads of the bloody things every year as they get into the barn and can carry diseases which could be passed onto the foals. There are buyers who will also buy any dead pigeons off you, although you would need to have a gun licence to shoot them of course.


I hope you mean pigeons! Because that does not go well with my post above yours lol


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

SilverSteno said:


> I hope you mean pigeons! Because that does not go well with my post above yours lol


 
Yes I did mean Pigeons, why anyone would want to shoot birds of prey is beyond me, they are excellent for keeping rodents under control on your land and keeping the rabbits down which means less rabbit holes for the horses to get their feet stuck in!! Quite a lot of racehorse trainers actually hang up dead mice on their grass gallops to encourage kestrels/kites as it keeps the rabbits away!


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Had a couple of run ins with racers, one flew into our patio door and killed itself, i did think about contacting someone but never did in the end, lovely looking bird too, very big and stocky, was beige and white.

Other was an ordinary grey and white pigeon who found himself in my back garden feeding off the bird table and decided to stay, he'd sit on the patio wall or chimney at night to roost and in the day he'd sit on top of my rabbit hutches and would follow me up and down the garden or sit on my shoulder, mum wasn't pleased when he'd come into the kitchen though and crap on the floor, extremely friendly bird, he even started roosting in my garage at one stage and i had to leave the door open to my disgust as its illegal to contain someone elses property so he had to have the freedom to leave as and when he pleased, he stuck around for about 3 months then disappeared after a storm, then to my complete surprise made another appearance after a further 2 months missing. and then he moved off with a wild flock and never saw him again.

Lovely bird, part of me feels i should have contacted someone...again. But i didn't, he can enjoy being free now anyway, lol


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## wolves121121 (Mar 27, 2008)

SilverSteno said:


> If they are then they need reporting as that is illegal to kill any birds of prey.


i have done but nothing ever happens


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Cranwelli said:


> Pigeons get a bad rep. I think they're quite sweet.


Percy agrees! 










:flrt:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

girlsnotgray said:


> We have to shoot loads of the bloody things every year as they get into the barn and can carry diseases which could be passed onto the foals.


So can every other bird, a pigeon carrys the same as every other bird out there.Would you shoot Swallows if they nested in your barn.
Your foals are as likely to get somthing off a sparrow than it is a pigeon.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

gazz said:


> So can every other bird, a pigeon carrys the same as every other bird out there.Would you shoot Swallows if they nested in your barn.
> Your foals are as likely to get somthing off a sparrow than it is a pigeon.


 
I agree and dont understand how pigeons get all the blame when it comes to carrying diseases when there are lots of other birds that carry the same things


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

gazz said:


> So can every other bird, a pigeon carrys the same as every other bird out there.Would you shoot Swallows if they nested in your barn.
> Your foals are as likely to get somthing off a sparrow than it is a pigeon.


 
swallows dont try eating out of the horses feed bins and they tend to nest in the hay barn rather than our american barn anyway. Pigeons are pests, any farmer will tell you that. Sadly a lot of people still have the cute fluffy animal view where you cant shoot vermin like rabbits,foxes or pigeons.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

girlsnotgray said:


> swallows dont try eating out of the horses feed bins.


A sparrow would.A swallow, a sparrow, a starling'etc'etc can still fly over a hourse feed and s:censor:t in it, which would end in the same result.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

gazz said:


> A sparrow would.A swallow, a sparrow, a starling'etc'etc can still fly over a hourse feed and s:censor:t in it, which would end in the same result.


 
Well in 30 years of having horses thats never happenen as they never nest in the actual stables. We have only ever had problems with crows,pigeons and gulls all of which are legal to shoot. Pigeons and crows will actually fly down and try eating out of the bowl whilst the horses are and we arent willing to take risks so any that the cats dont get are destroyed. As far as I am concered pigeons,crows,rabbits,rats,foxes. . . they are all vermin.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

An animal is only considered vermin when it's able to thrive around humans and our mess. If people were clean, there wouldn't be any "vermin".


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Rats, pigeons, seagulls, rabbits and foxes are vermin to some people and wildlife to others. Its nothing to do with cute fluffy animals.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Rats, pigeons, seagulls, rabbits and foxes are vermin to some people and wildlife to others. Its nothing to do with cute fluffy animals.


 I think they're classed as vermin in law.


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> An animal is only considered vermin when it's able to thrive around humans and our mess. If people were clean, there wouldn't be any "vermin".


 
LMAO!!. . . . have you ever lived on a farm? Its nothing to do with being "unclean" its due to having animals and food around. Show me a farm in this country that doesnt have to shoot vermin! I would hardly call me yard "unclean" food is in vermin proof storage bins untill used, animals mucked out twice a day, fields cleaned every 2 days and we still get vermin even though there are 2 yard cats and 2 yard dogs!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

girlsnotgray said:


> LMAO!!. . . . have you ever lived on a farm? Its nothing to do with being "unclean" its due to having animals and food around. *Show me a farm in this country that doesnt have to shoot vermin!* I would hardly call me yard "unclean" food is in vermin proof storage bins untill used, animals mucked out twice a day, fields cleaned every 2 days and we still get vermin even though there are 2 yard cats and 2 yard dogs!


My friends farm and she has 2 horses and a lot of cats including the ferals that live in the feed room. She only puts bait boxes down to stop the mice and rats having a population explosion, Her horses have never suffered ill effect even though swallows nest in the stables and the pigeons,crows and jackdaws steal the chickens food from the paddocks, She rescues prey from the cats even mice, rats and rabbits when she can


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> My friends farm and she has 2 horses and a lot of cats including the ferals that live in the feed room. She only puts bait boxes down to stop the mice and rats having a population explosion, Her horses have never suffered ill effect even though swallows nest in the stables and the pigeons,crows and jackdaws steal the chickens food from the paddocks, She rescues prey from the cats even mice, rats and rabbits when she can


Does she keep livestock though? We have a small dexter herd and 16 boxed horses (broodies are kept out unless foaling) so there is no way the cats could keep on top of them. Im not saying its okay to shoot everything you see but you do need to keep on top of things or you would end up overrun with them! You only have to empty a pigeons crop to see how much feed they eat. I cant take the risk of diesease when we have young foals and competition horses.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

girlsnotgray said:


> Does she keep livestock though? We have a small dexter herd and 16 boxed horses (broodies are kept out unless foaling) so there is no way the cats could keep on top of them. Im not saying its okay to shoot everything you see but you do need to keep on top of things or you would end up overrun with them! You only have to empty a pigeons crop to see how much feed they eat. I cant take the risk of diesease when we have young foals and competition horses.


 
Sheep,goats,ducks,chickens and geese. Yes I can understand controlling pests but dont like it when people make out they dont have a right to live at all
Maybe we should agree to disagree


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Sheep,goats,ducks,chickens and geese. Yes I can understand controlling pests but dont like it when people make out they dont have a right to live at all
> Maybe we should agree to disagree


Im not saying they dont have the right to live at all, infact I quite like having all sorts of wildlife about the farm but we do have to take steps to keep the population undercontrol. So lets agree to disagree :2thumb:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

girlsnotgray said:


> Im not saying they dont have the right to live at all, infact I quite like having all sorts of wildlife about the farm but we do have to take steps to keep the population undercontrol. So lets agree to disagree :2thumb:


:lol2: Im glad thats sorted then:2thumb:


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