# Thinking of getting a pair of male rats again.



## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

This is probably a waste of time as I don't think I can work around my husband to let me have rats again. I mentioned it the other day and he said he'd give it serious consideration. He knows I always wanted to have rats in my life and its been years since we had any. 
I know it's probably put him off as much as he likes them because we had so many berore. We started off with two and then he decided we would get another two. The two newbies were pregnant and with both litters we ended up with oer twenty lol. Only needed two cages in the end..one for boys and one for girls. But then as they usually do some got ill and needed treatment at the same time which was costly and he needed to help me give it to them while i held them. 

I love girly rats and I had always had girl rats before the baby boys came along but I think at the moment it would suit me more to have two boys. From experience they seem altogether more relaxed and not so crazy. Both have their good points but the boys seem a bit more lazy with the odd exception and don't seem to run about as much. They seem to sleep more.

I need a quick refresher course from those here in the know as it's been a while and there might be better options out there since I last kept them. 

I used to keep them on wood litter in the past but I don't really want to use this again and I want a cheap easily accessible type of substrate. Can I use newspaper or seeing as they wash so much will the print/coloured print get on their paws and be toxic to them when washing?

I plan on using throw away/washable cat/dog blankets for bedding as I don't trust shredded paler because of past experiences of little legs getting twisted.

If anyone has any known contacts for a well recommended breeder in my area or close to then please let me know. I got all mine before from pet shops and they all were lovely and didnt ever bite. But I'd be willing to look into a breeder.

Any other tips, info, advice would be great thanks.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Woohoo! I'm allowed two ratties! 
Now it's the hard part of finding them. Well, the hardest bit is the cage.
I'd like to go to pets at home seeing as nearly all my rats came from there in the past and they have all been lovely little things, so friendly and never bitten. One of the rats I had from there...a little girl..was more like a human than a rat. Such a character! 

Anyway where do you get yours from? I'm limited to where I can go seeing as I have no transport. I want well looked after really friendly ones and not ones that are gonna bite. I know all animals will bite but just none of mine ever did and I just got the feeling that this time I'll make a hasty decision and I'll get ones that are really nasty or bitey.
I would like to rehome but I really want babies seeing as they don't live that long and I'm terrible when it comes to the time animals pass on. 
I want them as soon as they're ready to go.

I obviously got a decision of males or females, what colours etc. Id like females again one day but think I got more chance of getting two laid back lazies with two males that will wanna cuddle but still be inquisitive. I don't really mind wht type they are but would love unusual coloured or black eyed ones. So exciting, but I dunno where to start looking. Maybe I'll join a rat forum. I don't wanna pay the earth for them or a cage as I know how expensive it'll be if they get ill and need batryl or something. 

Any suggestions on a good affordable cage that is escape proof? They will be sharing a room with my parrotlet and don't want them escaping for obvious reasons. I've advertised in the classifieds for the actual rats and a breeder but if anyone knows of any in my local area or close by or a cage then please pm me or reply. Thanks.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Find a local breeder and ask if thy will drop off to you?


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Yea I'm looking online for a local breeder and wanted to ask on a uk rat forum to see if there are any that are well recommended. The rat forums though seem so empty. 

I dont know if I should just find a second hand cage and buy from pets at home


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

I'd buy a brand new cage personally.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Yea, I don't mind buying brand new as every things better brand new. Just don't wanna buy it from pets at home. Their cages are outrageously priced and they come with bits missing, falling apart etc.

If I put a normal padlock on the door of the cage (assuming it'll fit) that should hold it shut shouldn't it to avoid escapes?

Is newspaper ok as a substrate? Cos I am worried about the ink and coloured ink but I really don't want to use that wood litter stuff.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Yes, a padlock will lock them in unless they are master lock pickers!

News paper is fine too, although they will obviously shred it.

You could order the cage online too don't forget.

Be careful of the cat of yours, that can see the future or he may make plans of picking the lock for his dinner!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Haha yeah thanks I'll keep that in mind.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I'd love at least one dumbo.

With males though I know a lot of ppl say they can get agressive towards their cage mates and can really hurt them due to hormonal changes usually beginning around 6months of age, and can also be nasty and bite you. How long does this last and how common is it? All my male rats didnt seem to ho through it. I don't want an aggressive rat and I don't want to nuteur them either.

How common are rat bites for you, especially with new baby rats and with males? I have never gotten bitten from any of my rats and I had over twenty. 
I could even touch their teeth and check their sharpness without them even moving. I'm just a bit nervous that's all as I got this strange feeling I'm gonna get a biter. Maybe just cos its been a couple of years since I had any and I havnt bought/rehomed any males before or bought from a breeder before. All my males were babies from my girls.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Out of the rays I've kept previously, I've never had a male who attacks cage mates! I had one male who hated me with a vengeance, but was always ok with the other rats!

I think the fact that you had over twenty and none where nasty kinda proves the point that rats are usually pretty friendly!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Yea lol. I don't want the stress/risk/cost really of castration. 
Well most of the twenty were the babies we had from our already pregnant girls and they were handled every day from a really early age so they grew up knowing us all along. 
I'm gonna go down to pets at home today and see how much it's changed since I bought there last. Not sure if the last time I bought a rat from there they were petsmart actually. I'll see where they get their rats from and if they're handed daily. Observe every one in the tank and ask a lot of questions.
I think they mainly have adults and bigger ones though.
I'll see what they got in their rehome section and adverts too.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I agree - if you put down newspaper substrate the rats will chew it to make nests, so you'll end up with a bare floor. I use cardboard pieces like Finacard as a substrate, which they absolutely love rooting about in and carrying bits to make nests. I have 2 litter trays with my cat litterr which the rats use, so the cardboard substrate lasts 2 or 3 weeks without any urine or faeces in it.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

A couple of things, defo make sure you keep your cat away from them. A female rat I once had got scratched by our old cat through the bars and after 3 weeks of medication and an operation due to a massive abscess forming on her face, had to be pts, I was heartbroken because it was just a teeny tiny cut on her cheek at first.

Also, I've just lined my cage with lino recently and put a litter tray in. I was using Biocatolet in the bottem of the whole cage but it gets so expensive so now I just wipe the lino over everyday and clean their litter tray every few days and fill that with biocatolet. Have to make sure they dont chew the lino though! Smells nice though and looks good, Much easier for me to clean as well. 

I prefer the boy rats, they are a lot snugglier Imo. My ratty boys are massive compared to their sisters and so squidgy lol. Post pics when you get some!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks  I will get pics up.

I had cats before when i had rats and they were kittens then so even more likely to get everywhere. They arnt allowed in the bedroom where I keep my other animals and I will keep my rats. 
The rats will be allowed out for playtime in the living room when the cats will be in the hall for an hour at a time a couple times a day.

You mean lino that you get on a roll from places like b&q for your floor? How much is that? What will happen if they chew it? Will they get ill or choke?
Might be a bit cold in the winter coming up on their little feet.

I am trying to find a second hand cage as they don't have much choice in pets at home (just a couple really expensive ones that arnt ideal really for what I want). I will get my rats from there I think as I held one there today and asked some questions. They arnt played with but are handled everyday when cleaned out. They seem to still know a lot in this local store about them as they never mix them and at the most always have six girls and six boys in their own cages. They got loads stuff in there. The woman seemed auntie angry as she recalled a recent visit to another pet store where she had seen a few bigger rats mixed with newborns!
Probably Pisces pets I expect. I seemed to recall such a thing myself and reported them, but nothing came of it of course.

The two males I saw were already 16 or 17 weeks so quite big now and although id love the one I held I wanna hold out for two younger ones. They normally sell them from 7 weeks of age. I dunno when they'll get ones that young in again. I fallen in love with the one I held now lol and so tempted to get them if I have a cage soon.

One thing...I might get three males if I can if they got more than two there but what if the two bond and the other feels left out? Im not sure if I wsnt four really as that's pushing it a bit with cage space. I can't get two and leave a third there though. And I wouldn't wanna get three and leave a fourth either. However many I get what if one of the ones I pick is bonded more to one I left behind?


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think they would choke and mine haven't chewed their lino so far, I just wouldn't feel comfortable with them eating it to be honest! Mine was an off cut from when my neighbour had their kitchen floor done lol. 
If my lino gets too cold over winter I will probably use fleeces for the bottom or shredded paper, but with all their fluffy beds and each other to keep warm I'm sure they will be warm enough  A wire bottom is one to avoid though because that can cause them bad problems on their little feet!

I have three rats and although two of mine seem to spend more time together they still all snuggle up in a little ball together and groom each other. I doubt one will feel left out, especially if you give them a lot of kisses and cuddles! 

I know you want to get them from a pet shop but I would really recommend you carry on searching for a breeder near you, you are much more likely to get healthier rats that way and will be getting them when they are younger. Pet shops may occasionally know their stuff, but it doesn't mean they have ethics when it comes to breeding. 

It is most definitely up to you though and I'm sure you will end up with lovely rats no matter what.

As for the cage maybe keep an eye out in classifieds? Put an ad in freecycle and search ebay? Bound to find a bargain somewhere!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

My cats have never bothered with my rats, which are in my living room, but they don't hunt and don't have much in the way of hunting instinct.

I think they'd be more obsessive about them if they were kept apart, to be honest.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

We were unlucky that it happened to ours I guess. They were also kept in the living room and we had a young cat at the time who got a bit playful and clawed her through the cage. Not the cats fault, just one of them things I feel we could have prevented.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, I see that. I often go out and leave my cats in the room when the rats are free roaming, but I'd *never* leave the dog with them, because I definitely don't trust him!


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

feorag said:


> Yes, I see that. I often go out and leave my cats in the room when the rats are free roaming, but I'd *never* leave the dog with them, because I definitely don't trust him!



Haha I trust my dogs completely but one of the rats bit my puppy the other day! Couldn't believe it, they have never done that before and are around the dogs all the time! Not sure I'd leave them together if I had a big dog like skye though, mine are diddy compared lol.
I think owners should always trust their instincts on their own pet, after all, nobody knows them better than you do.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I hate it when you need to be a paying member on preloved to respond to new ads. The only affordable bog rat cage in Newport too!

By the time I can respond with my free membership it would be gone already!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Disillusioned said:


> Haha I trust my dogs completely but one of the rats bit my puppy the other day! Couldn't believe it, they have never done that before and are around the dogs all the time! Not sure I'd leave them together if I had a big dog like skye though, mine are diddy compared lol.
> I think owners should always trust their instincts on their own pet, after all, nobody knows them better than you do.


That's exactly the way that I see it - Skye has a very high prey drive and I know he would grab them if he had a chance, whereas the cats just look at them and ignore them.



BlackRose said:


> I hate it when you need to be a paying member on preloved to respond to new ads. The only affordable bog rat cage in Newport too!
> 
> By the time I can respond with my free membership it would be gone already!


I bought my Tom Rat cage on ebay brand new from Zoo Pets at a fraction of the price because it had 2 shelf brackets missing - they sell a lot of their returned stuff on ebay at a much lower price, but they always mention what is wrong with it, such as 'crack in base' etc.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I went to get some crickets at pets at home today and looked at the same two rats again. The one I held yday bounced right up to see me at the glass like he remembered me. Felt like he picked me like it felt when I had my other rat from there years ago that I had a soecial bond with.
Maybe it just feels this way with this one cos I havnt had rats in so long, but I dunno?
Then the other male who was nervous yesterday and didn't wanna be picked up came up too and they both stared at me all happy looking and pawing the glass sniffling their noses.

By the time I'd get a cage these would be bigger anyway but I'll probably never forget that little boy  really want him lol.

About care fresh bedding... Is this really thst good for rats? I've heard it can cause respiratory problems and worried about it for them nd for my parrotlet in the same room too. Is it smelly at all like with a scent or smelly when they soil it? Is it expensive? That's just for bedding though right...I cant use it as substrate?


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## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Please don't buy from a petshop....there are lots of reasons on the links listed below. Try an ethical breeder, or a rescue.
Why not use Pet Shops?
Fancy Rats | Information | Buying From Petshops
Rodent Farm


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thankyou. I'll look at the links.

I'm only considering pets at home as the one in my area is really good with their animals...particularly the rodents and fish.
Their rats are kept in glass tanks and always separated from the opposite sex. They get handled everyday as they are cleaned out everyday. When they get them out for you to stroke and hold the rats are reall friendly. They look healthy and really happy. Inside their cages they have hammocks, rope and toys. 
All the rats I've had from there over the years have been healthy and never bitten. 
They only ever have two tanks at the same time with no more than six in at once but normally have two in each. 
They seem to still know what they are on about.

I appreciate the advice and links. Please give me anymore advice and info you can. There are no rat breeders by me


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

They sound good apart from the fact they keep their rats in tanks...you know thats bad for their respiratory system right? x


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry that came across quite rude when I read it back, I didn't mean it to! I know someone who lives near you so I'll ask them if they know of any rat breeders locally. She's as animal mad as the rest of us lol x


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks  could you also ask them please if they could look out for a cage? Like a second hand one such as a ferplast or something. 

That didnt come across as rude, domt worry


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Oh, I forgot to say the shop by me sell the rats from 7weeks of age whereas most pet shops sell them way younger than that.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Anyone got any info on the care fresh bedding/substrate?

One thing I wanna know is that if a rat does bite you wether it be a deep bite or a nip and it draws blood do you have to have a tetanus shot or anything? Or can you just stop the bleeding, rinse under hot water and stick a plaster on it? I'd never gotten bitten before properly.
For some reason I'm really worried I will be but I don't want to not have rats cos of it. I know how to look after them and they are real sweeties.

Have any of you had your tame rat remain healthy but suddenly turn into a biter? Ive read a lot of stories about that and its not just the hormonl males either. You could even just be petting them for five minutes and then they chomp on you and latch on or lunge at you! And it wouldnt be just a warning I've had enough petting kinda thing. Thats just some stuff I've read about new rats and already loving rats people have had for ages. I've never had that problem myself but it's made me kinda worried.

Anyone had this happen or had any hormonal males?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> Anyone got any info on the care fresh bedding/substrate?
> 
> One thing I wanna know is that if a rat does bite you wether it be a deep bite or a nip and it draws blood do you have to have a tetanus shot or anything? Or can you just stop the bleeding, rinse under hot water and stick a plaster on it? I'd never gotten bitten before properly.
> For some reason I'm really worried I will be but I don't want to not have rats cos of it. I know how to look after them and they are real sweeties.
> ...


I used carefresh and loved it lol. However it does resemble paper that has gone through the washing machine so thats probably what it is.

I had to rehome my rats when one of mine almost took Jessicas finger off. This was a young female. I had to physically pull the rat off her finger. My other 2 rats were lovely but i just couldnt risk that happening again.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

selina20 said:


> I used carefresh and loved it lol. However it does resemble paper that has gone through the washing machine so thats probably what it is.
> 
> I had to rehome my rats when one of mine almost took Jessicas finger off. This was a young female. I had to physically pull the rat off her finger. My other 2 rats were lovely but i just couldnt risk that happening again.


Oh god, I bet that hurt? What was the damage? Did she have to have anything done? What made her do that?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> Oh god, I bet that hurt? What was the damage? Did she have to have anything done? What made her do that?


She got a bite right down in the joint. It was cleaned and took a while for it to heal. Was the swelling that was the longest to go down. I dont know what made her do it. Jess hadnt even put her hand in the cage she was resting it on the sofa next to the cage and the rat pulled her hand in.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I've had mine from babies but even so, one of mine is a biter. I think his biting is due to hormones though but I'm too worried to get him castrated, he is a year and a half now. I still kiss him and hold him coz he is a sweetheart normally, but he has bitten me and my boyfriend before for just stroking him lol. Makes us bleed an all! 
He bit my dog for the first time the other day which was quite bad because she's only a baby herself! He also follows his brothers round during free roaming just to bite them so he is a handful, but it's the way he is so I just keep an eye on him. It's rare to get a rat that bites for no reason though, he is the first 'biter' in all the rats I've ever had.
I had a tetans when studying animal care but as far as I know it's best to keep up to date with them especially if you keep animals just to be on the safe side.

I will ask her either tonight or tomorrow, depending on when she answers the damn phone lol (soz for the essay!)


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks. Did you say you got yours from a breeder?
How about you Selina?

Bit worried now as I'm probably due a tetanus and I can't stand needles! Sposed to be really painful that one!

Maybe I'm better off getting females then cos of the hormones? But I really want males. How do I know if mine is gonna bite when just having smooths, even if it is normally so placid all the time?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> Thanks. Did you say you got yours from a breeder?
> How about you Selina?
> 
> Bit worried now as I'm probably due a tetanus and I can't stand needles! Sposed to be really painful that one!
> ...


Both were from breeders.

Mine that bit my daughter was a female.

If you cant stand getting bitten then i suggest you dont get them. At the end of the day what will happen if you get bitten will you become scared and never handle them or rehome them??


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

BlackRose said:


> Thanks. Did you say you got yours from a breeder?
> How about you Selina?
> 
> Bit worried now as I'm probably due a tetanus and I can't stand needles! Sposed to be really painful that one!
> ...



My mum bought 2 females from the all famous pet shop and one was pregnant, so we ended up with 11 rats instead of two. I helped her out by handing them daily from birth now they are all lovely little things! 
When I moved out last year I took the three boys to help her out and I'm glad I did. I wouldn't let hormone worries put you off boys though, they are much calmer in general! 
Mine started getting nippy around the 6 month mark and I would never have guessed that he would lol. I wouldn't trade him for a non-biter though because we have a special bond now. Don't focus on biting though, find some that have been well handled and you'll likely end up with a couple of amazing little companions! 

Oh p.s. the tetanus wasn't bad at all! Coming from someone who out right refused the BCG at school haha, wasn't having none of that.

My little nipper on their 1st birthday this year lol (they shared that cake btw)


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Was just profile stalking and you own a scorpion! how can u be nervous of a rat bite lol x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> Thanks  could you also ask them please if they could look out for a cage? Like a second hand one such as a ferplast or something.


Have you looked on Ebay? You can save a search and then every time someone puts a cage up for sale you'll get a daily e-mail giving you a link to all that have been put on in a day, so you can see if any of them are from your area??

As far as biters go, my first 2 rats came from a long time breeder, who'd been breeding for years and they never ever bit, even when scared such as at the vets. My next 2 came from another breeder, but not as long term as the previous and neither of those bit either. One of them used to very gently push my finger away with his bottom teeth when he didn't want me to hold him, again usually at the vets when he was away from his 'safe area' and scared.

The 2 I have now I succumbed to buying at PaH because I couldn't find a breeder with kittens when my last one died leaving Dougal alone. They were litter mates and neither have shown any aggression at all at being handled at home. However ............. last week I had all 3 at a garden centre raising money for the wildlfife sanctuary where I volunteer and they were obviously quite nervous, but handled OK. However, at one stage when I was handling my snake one of the other workers opened the travel box and showed one of the children the rats, the next time I went into the box to get them out, Archie panicked and bit me. However, I wouldn't blame him for that, as I think the strange person and smell maybe frightened him and he didn't wait to work out if it was me about to grab him and reacted. He's never bitten me since and I don't expect him to.

And by the way it tore the skin and I bled, but it didn't hurt _that _much.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks guys. Aww what a cutie!

I'm not gonna be put off. I am scared stiff of the possibility of biting, especially cos of the hormonal thing. I wish I had my own little one to handle daily from birth right now lol like I did before as it was such an experience and build a bond right from the start. Not a worry with any of the boys...you could do whatever you liked to them. Could even scrape against their teeth with your finger and they would just lie there having belly scritches and licking all the time! Everyday you'd get soaked! It was only the boys...mainly the two I had more of a deep bond with than the other boys...that would lick. 
I'd do anhthjng to have them back again.

Anyone got lickers? Do you think the boys are more licky? I think their definatly more greedy! I had all mine lining up in the doorway all heads in a row at treat time! Lol. So gentle though! 
The girls would just whizz around the cage thinking it was playtime, and theyd steal our money.
One of our girls tried to take pizza out of my husbands mouth and another started eating the bottom of his ice-cream cone without him noticing!!cheeky things!

Anyways, my neighbour kindly offered me her (well it's her sisters) very large cage for £15. It wss her newphews for when he had gerbils and it has a glass bottom. I hadn't seen it yet but said I'd take a look. Done a quick search and I'm guessing its this one...gerbil cage glass bottom - Google Search

Which is ideal for gerbils of course seeing as they bury but because of rats respiratory system and the males being bigger also it probably wnt be big enough or suitable. Shame  I'll look anyway in case its answer one. Maybe I'd get lucky and he actually kept his gerbils in a massive rat type cage. Dint think I've ever seen a glass bottomed rat cage though, so it probably is a gerbil one that's too small


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Aw no he probably was just scared of some stranger suddenly scooping him up...from behind probably. I looked on eBay and nothing yet  but forgot you could do a save search thanks 

I dont own scorpions anymore lol and I didnt get close enough to them with my hands to get stung.


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

I'd avoid buying your rats from [email protected] because of the horrid rodent farms they're bred in. I suggest the fancy rat forum for advice and cage wise you can't go wrong with the Liberta Abode! with that cage you can have up to six rats so even if you start with two it's still possible to introduce a few more!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Are all pets at home rats from rodent farms and such places too? The newport one doesnt keep any behind as far as I know in the back unless they're not quite ready to go out yet, they don't order any in, and they dont sell till 7 weeks old. They got two there 17weeks old for sale ATM.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Can't remember if I posted this and hope you can see it.
Like I said my neighbours sister is offering me her sons large cage with a glass bottom for £15. He housed two gerbils in it. To me this sounds like its unsuitable and too small cos it was housing gerbils. However she said it's large and so I'm going to take a look. I might use it as a temporary cage and then once the rats are bigger I can use it as a sick cage or something if I ever need to. It's good to have a spare cage...even though I havnt really room for two large cages lol. 
I havnt seen it yet but I'm guessing after a quick search shes on about this one: gerbil cage glass bottom - Google Search if you can't see it please just type in gerbil cage with glass bottom into google images.

Now, I know rats can't be kept in glass enclosures due to not enough ventilation but seeing as the top has wire would this be ok? Also I'd cover the wire platforms with fleece or something. The bars look small enough space wise so baby rats dont get out. I wouldn't keep them in here for a long time of course. Just till I can get say a Jenny ferplast or something.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> Can't remember if I posted this and hope you can see it.
> Like I said my neighbours sister is offering me her sons large cage with a glass bottom for £15. He housed two gerbils in it. To me this sounds like its unsuitable and too small cos it was housing gerbils. However she said it's large and so I'm going to take a look. I might use it as a temporary cage and then once the rats are bigger I can use it as a sick cage or something if I ever need to. It's good to have a spare cage...even though I havnt really room for two large cages lol.
> I havnt seen it yet but I'm guessing after a quick search shes on about this one: gerbil cage glass bottom - Google Search if you can't see it please just type in gerbil cage with glass bottom into google images.
> 
> Now, I know rats can't be kept in glass enclosures due to not enough ventilation but seeing as the top has wire would this be ok? Also I'd cover the wire platforms with fleece or something. The bars look small enough space wise so baby rats dont get out. I wouldn't keep them in here for a long time of course. Just till I can get say a Jenny ferplast or something.


 Having seen the biggest of those cages in person they're far too small for rats even as a temporary cage, plus it's going to cost you more in the long run as you'd have to buy that then another in s coupe of weeks.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Ah ok thanks. I wasn't sure without seeing it how big it was. Ah well, looks like I'm going for the Jenny/ferplast rat cage then. That's the best ones I've owned anyway for my rats. Jst wish they wernt so expensive :s I know how expensive vet treatment for rats can be and so I know what I might be getting myself in for should they get any URI's.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

The problem with the Jenny is that it doesn't have coated bars and so will rust. i have a Tom Rat cage and it has coated bars. A couple of joints are just showing rust now because I take it outside and domestos it and then hose it down and leave it to dry every few weeks, but it's still going strong 4 years later.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Like this one? Tom rat cage - Google Search I like


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Just rang petsathome and asked where they get their rats from and I csnt remember the same of the place but they said 'something' breeding centre.
They have four new rats coming in wednesday and they will be kept out the back a day or two so they can make sure they're ok, they said. So if the two males I saw that are there now are still there when the younger ones come in what will happen to them? I might phone again and ask.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> Like this one? Tom rat cage - Google Search I like


Yes that's mine. I've been very happy with it, but if I could change one thing I'd made the centre door bigger so I could get further into the cage when cleaning and putting up stuff inside, but it's been a good cage for me.

I saw a Luna 400 in the pet department of a garden centre I go to often, which they were asking about £100 for, but I've seen it on Amazon for £55 with free delivery and I've been thinking recently about changing to that one. It's not quite as tall as my Tom Rat, but it has a wee bit more floor space, which is better for boys. I wouldn't use the grid in the bottom, I'd take that out and I'd put the solid shelves from my Tom Rat above the wire shelves, cos I don't like them, but at least then i can hang hammocks from them, rather than just being able to hang them from the roof.

By the way I make pretty good hammocks at very reasonable prices, so check out my thread in classifieds. :2thumb:


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks  yeah, I was thinking of getting a hammock from you


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I was thinking of this though just for now...what you think? It's a sbout two years old and from the pic has a lot of rust.

FOR SALE; Jenny Rat Cage by Ferplast, RRP £85! Selling for £40! in Newport | Other Miscellaneous Goods for Sale | Gumtree.com


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Why not save for a bit until you can afford a cage you actually want? I don't think you should buy a cage just for now that isn't perfect for you and the rats if you don't have to. 
When I got my cage it was because of an accidental litter but if I was in your boat I would have waited and got the one I wanted from the start.
Atleast you could fill it with lovely toys and hammocks before you get them then and they would be the happiest rats in the world coming home to that.

It's just my opinion on what I would do though, you know it's totally up to you when it comes to it and i'll still try and help whatever you decide : victory:


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks. I don't mind getting this one at all seeing as it's the type of cage I want anyway as long as I can get the rust of it. It should look good as new then, and comes with an igloo etc too. 

How would I get the rust off and do I really have to cover it with stuff afterwards? Cant I just scrub the rust off and rinse?


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Jenny cages are awful. I gave mine away. They rustif you don't plasticote the bars and the access is terrible. The ferplast furet xl is excellent for access as are the savic freddy and freddy 2 and they'rea similar size to the Jenny maybe slightly larger I can't remember Tbh.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> Thanks. I don't mind getting this one at all seeing as it's the type of cage I want anyway as long as I can get the rust of it. It should look good as new then, and comes with an igloo etc too.
> 
> How would I get the rust off and do I really have to cover it with stuff afterwards? Cant I just scrub the rust off and rinse?


The jenny one is the one i had and from the photo you can make out that the bars are covered like mine were so it shouldnt go rusty. Beware though they are massive cages.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

selina20 said:


> The jenny one is the one i had and from the photo you can make out that the bars are covered like mine were so it shouldnt go rusty. Beware though they are massive cages.


I know when I had my last rats they were re releasing the Jenny so maybe the new ones bars are coated? The old ones definitely weren't.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

selina20 said:


> The jenny one is the one i had and from the photo you can make out that the bars are covered like mine were so it shouldnt go rusty. Beware though they are massive cages.


Do you mean the bars on the link I gave arnt rusty? Maybe just dirty then? Think it looks ok?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I looked at the Jenny at PaH when I first decided to get rats, but I seem to remember that what put me off was the doors. There's one at the front and one in the top, but they looked pretty small to be able to get in to clean properly, so that's why I went for the Tom Rat.

To be totally honest I agree with Disillusioned. I think you're better waiting until you can get the cage you know you want, rather than buying one now that could be rusted and could have difficult access with the view to it being suitable for use 'for now' and then have to buy another more suitable cage in the not too distant future.

Especially if you haven't located a rat breeder yet and you did say you weren't in a rush.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks. The Jenny is the cage I'd prefer as its fhe first rat cage I had years ago which I found easy to get into myself.

I'm just not sure without seeing this cage first if its rusted or just dirty.
I was just contemplating the pros and cons of buying this one at a much cheaper proce with extras and cleaning the rust of off of it or buying the same cage for new.

It depends if I csn get all the rust off easily with say a scrubber or something and if i have to coat it afterwards with anything or will it be ok?


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

There isn't a breeder near me


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

When they say "breeding centre" I can almost 100% say that means a place where they are kept in tiny tubs, fed lab-blocks and have nothing to do but reproduce... another problem is that they don't care about the history or the health of the parents before they breed from them which is vital (imo) when breeding rats because they are already prone to diseases and have short-lifespans... Any rescues in your area? Maybe you could even get a breeder to courier them to you? I'd say [email protected] really is a last restort (in my eyes anyway).

Also, while a Jenny Cage might look big when empty, when you start filling it with toys and hammocks it starts getting a bit cramped so I went for the larger option (for the same price- which I mentioned in my previous post) so I can fill it to my hearts content and not feel like they are being cramped atall!

Good luck! :3


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## julie B (Sep 18, 2012)

I've kept rats for many years both boys & girls. I prefer boys as they are calmer. I never had any problems with them fighting but found sometimes 1 would try to eat all the food lol.

I used shreaded paper in the cage. I got all mine from Pets at Home and all had a long healthy life.

Would recommend you get a new cage as you don't want them catching things from a 2nd hand one.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks.

Well, I have had a home breeder contact me with the last of two litters she's had. She happens to have four males left and theyre £9 each but she's only selling them now £30 for all four as they're older snd used to being in their own group. Two black hoodeds, a brown hooded and a husky which I wanted. The husky snd snother one are dumbs too which I wanted!! She said they're still pretty small at 5inches from nose to bum and 11weeks old. When I am able to get them (which will fit in with when I'm able to get the new cage) they will be 12 or probably 13 weeks. 
It's been a while since I hsd baby male rats snd these are already bigger and older than what I wanted..it's so so nice to have little babies when they're new. 
What would you do? Wait and hold out to get the little babies I want just for the size or go for the older ones which are from a breeder anyway and contain dumbos snd a husky which I wanted anyway...plus this way I get four rats!
This is the lsst litter she will be having for a while too. So there womt be anyone else near me then.

I know they grow quick, especially boys but how big at 11/12 weeks are they likely to be? I mean, they won't be babies much longer then will they? They're akready twice the size and age probably thst I wouldve got anyway so they won't really be tiny or small and will soon be full size I'm guessing. 

I'm thinking I'll go for them as I'd love four rather thsn two and there's a husky and two dumbos!!

Can you please post any pics of your rats at 12/13 weeks? Are they still considered babies? I heard they stop growing at 5months? They'll be just over three months when I get them.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

to be honest I think that's quite small. I'm certain that mine were bigger than 5 inches when I collected them at 8 weeks from their breeder.

This is my Hamish the weekend I collected them the 3rd week in February. I have pretty big hands and measuring from the point on my wrist where his bum is resting to the tip of my fingers measures over 8".


__
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And here he is at Easter a few weeks later with my 12 year old granddaughter.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

I emailed her back, said I'd think about it and I'd try n get down to see them for myself. She said they're about five inches or so when they're eating and longer when stretched out.


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

Aw they sound perfect! For four rats I'd definetly say bigger than a jenny, for my four boys I have THIS cage and it's brilliant! Easy access, nice large door, plenty of height and floorspace and at their age there shouldn't be any problems with bar sizing, although I'd be cautious just for peace of mind. I also put a piece of laminate over the shelf and use it as a "kitchen area" so I can easily wipe it down everyday- they do make a bit of a mess with their food :lol2:
The great thing about more than 2 rats is that if one sadly passes, they remaining rats aren't alone which is the situation with just 2 rats. Have fun!!  Oh and, I don't know if your handy with a sewing machine but my mum makes simple hammocks for me and that saves me quite a bit. If you want to buy some hammocks I recommend Fuzzbutt Cage Comforts | Funkify your cage with the coolest furniture on the net! Rat hammocks, Chinchilla hammocks, Ferret hammocks, Hamster hammocks, Rat houses, Chinchilla houses, Rat cubes. I ordered a set of hammocks from them and they're awesome


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

The only problem I can see with that cage is that it appears to have vertical bars, which makes it difficult for ratties to climb - I would always want horizontal bars personally. Also you'd need stuff in it to break falls as a hyoung rat could serious hurt himself if he fell from a hammock hanging from the roof.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

A rat who is eating will be kind of curled over so that wouldn't show it's true length. I think at 11-12 weeks they will look more like adults than what you are after, but that doesn't mean that they aren't babies still. Seriously they grow so quick, so if you want them small your better off getting ones that are just ready to leave.
My rats are so playful, they still think they are all babies. They have mad moments where they jump in the air and go all silly and nibble me when I tickle them. No wonder you are so keen to get some soon, they make amazing pets 
If you did decide to get the 11/12 week old ones you will still be able to form a good bond with them because they are still young, I just don't think they will be small like the breeder has claimed, so it's really up to you if you want smaller ones that badly or not.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't see any point in getting younger ones that are likely to not be the exact colours and types you want when you could get these ones that are. In a matter of weeks you will have adult rats anyways, and in this case they will be the ones you like the look of for life.

They are still more than young enough to bond with you and be the rats you will always dream of if you are willing to put the work in.

I have a Freddy Rat Cage, they are brilliant cages. I have it still as it is a great emergency cage for pretty much any animal. Could you get to Bristol? That would likely open up a number of cage adverts you could buy from if you could go to Bristol to collect.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thankyou. I decided to go for them. Did you say newspaper is no longer toxic for them to walk or sit on, even if it gets wet or they get it on their paws and wash it off? Black ink and coloured ink? Sure someone on here said it's no longer toxic anymore?
Are rats of 11weeks still bouncy and popping around everywhere then as well as cuddly?


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

They are past the hoppy flea stage, but so will any rat old enough to sell be.

I doubt other than a few weeks extra growth there will be any difference in behaviour. 
They will be younger than you will likely get at PAH as they may get younger rats in store they will likely not sell them until older ones they have on the shop floor sell. Of course being inbred runts they may look smaller.


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Have you found yourself a cage yet?


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

feorag said:


> The only problem I can see with that cage is that it appears to have vertical bars, which makes it difficult for ratties to climb - I would always want horizontal bars personally. Also you'd need stuff in it to break falls as a hyoung rat could serious hurt himself if he fell from a hammock hanging from the roof.


I should probably have mentioned this, I have 2 large pillowcases tied across the length of the cage at two different heights so they can't fall anymore than 15cm onto a soft surface 

Oh and about the bars, they have no problems climbing them and have developed a very effective technique of climbing up!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Great! :2thumb:


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Sorry for the late reply. I got a cage but I'm not thst happy with it. Ive been told to look into the mambie cage. Im getting that. I splashed out too much on toys etc :blush: and I'd like space to have them all in at once so this ones perfect.

The four boys I have still do the flea jumping thing sometimes. They sleep a lot. But when tiring themselves out running round a lot. When they come out the csge they explore a bit and then hide under the blanket I put down to sleep.

I can't upload pics ATM as I'm using the iPad, but the most confident one is Scruffy the husky dumbo Rex rat. He's the one that is the nestmaker and food storer. If you make a noise he's there instantly even if he was asleep or downstairs to see whats going on. He likes to jump up your legs. 
He is a bit bossy, pinning the others down to wash them snd making them squeak a bit but he is lovely. He doesn't care who he steps on though and earlier he started wrapping up another rat in kitchen roll, rolling him along the platform in it like a cartoon person would be in a carpet! He's the one I'm most comfortable with and tolerates handling more.

His brother is Snatchy (was gonna be buttons) and he is a brown hooded dumbo. He doesn't snatch so much anymore. He always looks guilty lol. 

Then there's two black hooded. The biggest one I don't know what to call. He just stares at the food you're offering most the time. The smallest is a proper Rex with the really curly whiskers and he's weeney compared to the others lol.
His name is probably pancake. 

They're very squirmy and funny.

Can you use microwave, toasters, washing machine/dryer in one around rats? I want to cook some super noodles. Also if I'm ever making anything for the rats like eggs csn I use the microwave or is it only safe to use the cooker to cook their food in? Thanks.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> Sorry for the late reply. I got a cage but I'm not thst happy with it. Ive been told to look into the mambie cage. Im getting that. I splashed out too much on toys etc :blush: and I'd like space to have them all in at once so this ones perfect.
> 
> The four boys I have still do the flea jumping thing sometimes. They sleep a lot. But when tiring themselves out running round a lot. When they come out the csge they explore a bit and then hide under the blanket I put down to sleep.
> 
> ...


yes......


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You know you were told to look at cages and buy the one you *wanted *not the first one that became available, so if you'd taken that advice then you'd have got the right cage for you and the rats.

By the way what's a "mambie cage", cos I've never heard of that??


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Sorry typos...marmble think it's called. It can hold up to six rats.

Well the other cage I was considering which I ended up getting was a freddy ( which I had before) or so I thought so I was more than happy to get it. I had someone else pay their friend for it and bring it to me when I saw them as I wasn't able to get there myself and I paid the money back. It wasn't the cage I thought it was. So it's good for a spare and I'm happy I got it anyway. I just bought too many toys lol. I know I can and should alternate, but I want them all in together at some points too cos that would be great.

I have been having the rats out everyday while cleaning them out. They seem to want to let themselves in and out once the cage is done, which saves catching them I suppose. Theyre not sitting still much cos they're babies but still prefer to exlore for a minute and then hide and sleep away till it's time to go in whenever I try to handle them. Also I havnt been feeling that well and apart from the hour or so they're out when I'm cleaning the cage everyday I been resting after doing what elsr I got to do. Im getting better, but I'm just worried they won't get used to me if they don't want to be handled much ATM and Im busy cleaning their cage while they're out. I take the time to sit with them and only one likes to crawl on me but he soon gets off and prefers to run around and hide. Theyte all taking treats from me at the door. 

Trying to think of other things I csn do with them while theyre out to mske them feel more comfortable and trusting.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

Give them treats, sit and talk to them...they will get used to you.
Also did you say you were cleaning them out everyday? That will make them scent more and therefore smell more...A full clean out once a week is enough


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks

I'm only cleaning them out everyday as I'm using kitchen roll and newspaper as substrate which soaks through snd they ruffle up so it gets damp and stinky. Theyre using a box as a bed ATM filled with bedding (which they dont use much) and prefer to sit at the top platform instead. They use the box mainly to go to toilet on in the corner. So I changed thst everyday too to a new box except yestersy as it wasn't too bad. Needs changing today though. Will it stress them out cleaning them everyday? I'm wiping it out snd changing the bedding and substrate. Should I just replace the substrate and box and leave some of the carefrsh in instead so there's some scent left?


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

If you are doing a full clean out every day then I reckon that it will stress them out. You can spot clean them every day or so to remove soiled substrate but you shouldn't need to clean them out everyday. It will definitely make them scent mark more otherwise. Might be worth investing in a corner litter tray? rats are extremely clever and clean animals so will no doubt learn to use it very quickly like mine have :2thumb:


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> Thanks
> 
> I'm only cleaning them out everyday as I'm using kitchen roll and newspaper as substrate which soaks through snd they ruffle up so it gets damp and stinky. Theyre using a box as a bed ATM filled with bedding (which they dont use much) and prefer to sit at the top platform instead. They use the box mainly to go to toilet on in the corner. So I changed thst everyday too to a new box except yestersy as it wasn't too bad. Needs changing today though. Will it stress them out cleaning them everyday? I'm wiping it out snd changing the bedding and substrate. Should I just replace the substrate and box and leave some of the carefrsh in instead so there's some scent left?


Get yourself to a horse bedding shop and get some allbed, chopped card or aubiose :2thumb: or if you dont drive these are good and deliver
Cardboard Animal Bedding, Paper Horse Bedding, Nesting Material : Finacard

13.99 for a bale which will last you months...much better and cheaper than carefresh.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks guys. 

Well I had to chuck their box today as they insist on wetting it. I didn't bother given them a new one. Just a tea towel, loads of shredded newspaper and care fresh. And some kitchen roll. 

Some funny antics today when they were out. They wernt too keen on coming out today and still hid a lot once out. I like to wait for them to come out on their own which took up to half hour today. I wouldnt like a big scary hand of someone I dent know grasping me in my new home!

After theyd been out 40mins or so they esch came out of hiding and allowed themselves to be on camera. They ran around everywhere and tried to get onto the floor, windowsill and clothes horse. I put s nearly empty kitchen toll tube down snd was about to cut it down the middle (some are big boys) when one of the smaller ones sailed through it after Scruffy tried snd nearly got stuck. 

They came when they were called, had a little snack of cat food and went back in gladly. They moved everything down in their bed to how they wanted it snd then slept at the top together as usual instead of in their bed...all spent. not before scruffy popped back out to stick his nose in my face one more time.

Definatly finding their feet now and sitting there allowing some smooths finally...but only when something is distracting them. Still will not be picked up or held though. 

I will just clean their poop corner every dsy then snd get a corner tray for them. 

Have found a couple spots and what would've been puddles of blood the lsst couple days though which I'm a bit worried about. There's no sneezing or wheezing thst ive heard apart from the first two days of what I call 'new sneezies'. There's no excessive porpyhin..only a tiny tiny but on an eye and a nose...usually after washing. No marks, cuts, excessive washing/scratching that I've noticed. Will be keeping an eye on them.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey they sound like they are getting some good play time. It's good you aren't grabbing them because it would defo scare the life out of me lol. 
Sounds good, but 'puddles of blood'? If you are sure it isn't poryphin then you may want to give them all a check over for any unseen cuts on feet etc. Probably not an easy task with new, unsettled rats but worth a go because blood isn't a good sign. 
Mine sometimes get cuts and scabs from fighting but never enough for me to notice blood in their cage x


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Well, its dried blood or poryphin. I'm guessing blood. So probably have been scrapping and got some scabs or sonething under the fur where I csnt see. All their ears, feet and tails look fine. I got them all to stretch up and see me so I can see their bellies and...bits... 
It's only ever in their cage. Never when they're out. 

Btw I don't wanna be gross lol...but is it normal for some boys to have bigger bits than the rest? One of my boys has massive 'balloons' lol. Although he is a bit bigger than the others I suppose. 

That's the cage I just ordered for them. Comes with a free hammock too 

Rat Cages : Mamble Rat / Hamster Narrow Bar 100cm Cage : www.EquineCanineFeline.com the place to buy all your Pet Products, Horse Products and Pet Supplies online


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> Well, its dried blood or poryphin. I'm guessing blood. So probably have been scrapping and got some scabs or sonething under the fur where I csnt see. All their ears, feet and tails look fine. I got them all to stretch up and see me so I can see their bellies and...bits...
> It's only ever in their cage. Never when they're out.
> 
> Btw I don't wanna be gross lol...but is it normal for some boys to have bigger bits than the rest? One of my boys has massive 'balloons' lol. Although he is a bit bigger than the others I suppose.
> ...


Seems a bit small but maybe thats just me :/


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol you can definitely tell that the boys ar 'boys' but of course they are going to differ in size, just like everything else does. It's a nice cage, funny how the person who left a review said she would happily house 6 or 7 rats in there though, looks way too small to me personally, maybe it's just the picture....

So when are we going to get to see pics of your new bunch then? I keep checking back hoping to see them lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's not a dissimilar size to my Tom Rat (mine is very slightly shorter, but higher) and I wouldn't put more than 4 in mine! 6 or 7 would be overcrowded imao.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Yeah it does look small to me but from one pic I saw of someone with their hanfds on it its quite large but definatly not big enough for more than four as you say. 

I will post pics as soon as I can get onto the big pc. Don't think I can do it on the iPad on this forum. 

I'm keeping an eye on Scruffy as he has a little poryphin on his nose and left eye (and a bit on his paw) and looks a bit pinky around his nose. Seems to be washing and scratching a bit more now and others are trying to take his food. I don't think its blood now, from his urine or snyehere else. I've watched him poop and carry bedding to cover it much to his disgust.

I csnt hear any unusual noises. Theyte asleep ATM so I decided to open the window and cover them abit while the heatings on, snd when my psrrotlet goes to bed I'll have them back out for a few minutes to see if he's acting any differently. Everyone else seems ok. 
Do you think it could just be stress still from being new? Cos he's the most confident one...


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I swear I read before when I got my first females that porphyrin is also a sign of stress but someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Because I remember looking it up when I first got mine and someone suggested to me that it was because they had just been moved and needed to settle in. Just keep an eye on him and if he worsens and seems wheezy and sneezy then take him to the vet for some baytril. Make sure they have somewhere to hide and feel secure at all times because they will be very scared if expose without any hiding spaces.
I'm not an expert or anything but I'm just telling you things from my experience, if you are ever in doubt about their health then certainly take them to a vet for a check up, just to be on the safe side.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks. Well I found another blotch this morning as well as some specks. 
Still csnt hear anything though. I think cos he's the tidiest rat out of all them (he's the only one that covers his poop) then he's a bit stressed I have been cleaning them too often so ill just clean up any damp and poopey bits instead.

I tried giving them boxes but they don't use them. They prefer to sleep all together out in the open on the top platform which is weird. The boxes are big enough for all and they use them when out sometimes.

Their new cage should be here Monday or Tuesday so they'll have a nice cosy tunnel hammock to sleep in.


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## claire101 (May 15, 2012)

*rats*

Hiya im a rat breeder and i have rats ready now all my babies have been handled from a few hours old they are very friendly and love coming out to play i have never had that problem with males i breed only for health and temperament none of my rats are biters and all get one on one time as well as group play


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks I got a group of boys now.

They're in their new cage now and it's massive!! So big in fact that I had to move my parrotlets cage on top of my bearded dragons cage which is very awkward for me when I need to get to her or the bearded dragon.
She loves it up there though and is laughing her little head off!!

Will she be ok on there? She's on the uv side so she won't get too warm. Her cage has a platic base and the lid of my bearded dragons tank is wooden with a gap through the lid. There's still lots of ventilation going into the tank.

Also a bit worried the rats will get out being babies or get their heads stuck as the gaps by the doors are quite big.


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