# what amphibians dont need heat lamp or uv light??



## seanmackie

hi got a 2ftx2ftx2ft fish tank that is cracked and was wondering if there are any amphibians that dont need a heat bulb or uv light, that can happly live with just a heat mat, that i could put in my tank???

any suggestions, or pics of what youve got would be great :2thumb:

thanks sean


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## ipreferaflan

seanmackie said:


> hi got a 2ftx2ftx2ft fish tank that is cracked and was wondering if there are any amphibians that dont need a heat bulb or uv light, that can happly live with just a heat mat, that i could put in my tank???
> 
> any suggestions, or pics of what youve got would be great :2thumb:
> 
> thanks sean


I wouldn't keep any amphibians without UV, but it's debatable.
I'm sure some people will say it's fine for a few fire bellied toads or something.


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## hedgehog738

fire bellied newts.


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## seanmackie

ipreferaflan said:


> I wouldn't keep any amphibians without UV, but it's debatable.
> I'm sure some people will say it's fine for a few fire bellied toads or something.


me gf has 2 fire bellied toads, not really my thing lol any other suggestions any1 else????


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## Ron Magpie

Got to be honest and say I've never used UV with my (incidentally very healthy) fire-bellied toads- and they shouldn't need heat, either, if you don't live in a freezer. Varied feeding helps though- don't just bung in shop-bought crickets every week.


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## Dendroman

Fire salamanders?


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## seanmackie

Dendroman said:


> Fire salamanders?


do these need half water/land??? as i cant put water in tank due to crack. can mist daily tho, so looking for something that lives mainly on land :lol2:


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## Ron Magpie

Easy enough to provide a large water bowl. on the subject of heat lamps, very few amphibians need or want them- they dry out the air too much.


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## seanmackie

Ron Magpie said:


> Easy enough to provide a large water bowl. on the subject of heat lamps, very few amphibians need or want them- they dry out the air too much.


ok thats cool then, u got any suggestions for any that dont need uv light?????


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## ipreferaflan

Ron Magpie said:


> Got to be honest and say I've never used UV with my (incidentally very healthy) fire-bellied toads- and they shouldn't need heat, either, if you don't live in a freezer. Varied feeding helps though- don't just bung in shop-bought crickets every week.


Yeah... I know people do that and have healthy appearing animals. I'd just be a bit sceptical about not providing them with the exposure they'd get in the wild.
But that's just me


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## Ron Magpie

No, it's a valid point- and from what I've read lately, even salamanders may benefit from some limited exposure. But I have a thing about feeding (clean) wild-caught live food- woodlice, worms, grasshoppers, small snails etc, whenever possible. You have to be careful of the collecting area, but I feel it's much better then the battery-hen style stuff you can buy. And the prey is already 'sunlight-activated'.


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## seanmackie

ipreferaflan said:


> Yeah... I know people do that and have healthy appearing animals. I'd just be a bit sceptical about not providing them with the exposure they'd get in the wild.
> But that's just me


there is a shop by me that sells the fire bellied toads and they keep them in just a fish tank half full of water with a rock in the middle, then another shop by me keeps then in with anoles with uv light, and when questioning both shops they both said they are keeping them in the correct way, so who ya surpose to believe????:lol2:


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## ipreferaflan

Ron Magpie said:


> No, it's a valid point- and from what I've read lately, even salamanders may benefit from some limited exposure. But I have a thing about feeding (clean) wild-caught live food- woodlice, worms, grasshoppers, small snails etc, whenever possible. You have to be careful of the collecting area, but I feel it's much better then the battery-hen style stuff you can buy. And the prey is already 'sunlight-activated'.


Yeah that's true. I get a good amount of grasshoppers in my garden in the summer months. I might try that out. I like to feed my animals a variety. Usually just locusts/crickets/waxworms though.


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## ipreferaflan

seanmackie said:


> there is a shop by me that sells the fire bellied toads and they keep them in just a fish tank half full of water with a rock in the middle, then another shop by me keeps then in with anoles with uv light, and when questioning both shops they both said they are keeping them in the correct way, so who ya surpose to believe????:lol2:


FBTs with anoles?
That's a first for me haha.


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## Ron Magpie

Given that the two have TOTALLY different requirements, that's just rubbish. I like to give my FBTs a bit more of a land area, but even so, Shop #1 has a better idea of what's needed.


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## Tehanu

Ron Magpie said:


> And the prey is already 'sunlight-activated'.


Pardon?!

You know that insects do not produce or store D3 like vertebrates do/can?


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## ipreferaflan

Saedcantas said:


> Pardon?!
> 
> You know that insects do not produce or store D3 like vertebrates do/can?


Yeah Ron! Pshhh. Didn't you know that? :whistling2:
:blush:


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## richie.b

ipreferaflan said:


> Yeah Ron! Pshhh. Didn't you know that? :whistling2:
> :blush:


:lol2::lol2: i like that


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## Ron Magpie

Me too!:lol2: But nonetheless wild food is full of useful nutrients and trace elements that you won't find in your tub of crickets!: victory:


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## diamondwolf130

Most types of Newt and European species of Frogs and Toads, some species of salamanders like crocodile and fire salamanders do not require UV or Heat bulbs.

I've just got some gorgeous adult Marbled Newts. They don't need any electrical appliance. Not even a filter as they really aren't that messy.
The water just needs to be dechlorinated.


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## Tehanu

Ron Magpie said:


> Me too!:lol2: But nonetheless wild food is full of useful nutrients and trace elements that you won't find in your tub of crickets!: victory:


Perhaps (A nutritional study might be needed to confirm such a big statement!), however, wild caught or cultured, they don't supply D3.


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## seanmackie

diamondwolf130 said:


> Most types of Newt and European species of Frogs and Toads, some species of salamanders like crocodile and fire salamanders do not require UV or Heat bulbs.
> 
> I've just got some gorgeous adult Marbled Newts. They don't need any electrical appliance. Not even a filter as they really aren't that messy.
> The water just needs to be dechlorinated.


i like the look of the marbled newts, but wont they need mostly water??? thats my problem the tank has a crack in it, u say most european frogs dont need uv light, well do you know of any nice coloured types, that i could have a look at a bit more info on them?


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## Morgan Freeman

Get some silicone and fix the crack you lazy boy!


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## Ron Magpie

Saedcantas said:


> Perhaps (A nutritional study might be needed to confirm such a big statement!), however, wild caught or cultured, they don't supply D3.


I'm not totally convinced about that- on the practical evidence I have (ie years of keeping without the currently available equipment, with wild food, but ALSO without MBD), but i certainly don't have any issues taking advantage of what is now available.


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## seanmackie

Morgan Freeman said:


> Get some silicone and fix the crack you lazy boy!


there is a million and one cracks on the bottom, so no point in tryin to silicone :lol2:


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## diamondwolf130

seanmackie said:


> i like the look of the marbled newts, but wont they need mostly water??? thats my problem the tank has a crack in it, u say most european frogs dont need uv light, well do you know of any nice coloured types, that i could have a look at a bit more info on them?


Marbled Newts don't need much water at all, they tend to be mostly terrestrial. They do grow quite large though. (about 15cm long pygmys slightly smaller at 11cm) 

You could easily build a nice land area with bark, soil, plants etc... With a largish dish of water large enough for them to swim in with about 2 inches deep water.

Don't know much about the frogs though, sorry.


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## REDDEV1L

seanmackie said:


> there is a million and one cracks on the bottom, so no point in tryin to silicone :lol2:


You could always buy a new piece of glass to fit inside the tank and silicone it in :2thumb:



diamondwolf130 said:


> Most types of Newt and European species of Frogs and Toads, some species of salamanders like crocodile and fire salamanders do not require UV or Heat bulbs.


The Bufo Bufo's I lost due to MBD would disagree with you.


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## Tehanu

Ron Magpie said:


> I'm not totally convinced about that- on the practical evidence I have (ie years of keeping without the currently available equipment, with wild food, but ALSO without MBD), but i certainly don't have any issues taking advantage of what is now available.


I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? 
Very, very, very few invertebrates have ever been found to contain D3, there is no evidence or suggestion that insects can synthesise D3 or utilise UVB, the examples known point to a source in the diet of the invert (i.e: large theraphosid spiders which would readily feed on vertebrate prey).

Wild sourced food is probably better, but not definitely. Depends entirely on the species collected vs species available to buy, the time of year and therefore the diet of the wild species at that time.

You said in a discussion regarding UVB use with amphibians that wild sourced insects are "sunlight activated" this implied that they would provide the D3 needed by your amphibians.
I simply pointed out that this isn't true.


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## Ron Magpie

Saedcantas said:


> You said in a discussion regarding UVB use with amphibians that wild sourced insects are "sunlight activated" this implied that they would provide the D3 needed by your amphibians.
> I simply pointed out that this isn't true.


I honestly thought it was- but that was probably taken from out-of-date literature. :lol2: I still do believe that wild-caught food, given it's wider (and usually fresher) foodsource is better- but as you say, that is opinion, rather than empirically-proven fact.


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## seanmackie

REDDEV1L said:


> You could always buy a new piece of glass to fit inside the tank and silicone it in
> 
> its a curved tank so wud cost alot to buy so no point lol


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