# bci Q



## Darren25 (Oct 4, 2008)

pastel x hypo = ?

Thinking about getting a male to go with the female pastel.


----------



## jm-ze-b (Mar 9, 2008)

i thought they were the same for a while, not sure now, im probably wrong though


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Pastel is line bred. The pastel has two copies of the normal version of the salmon mutant gene. 

The hypo may have two salmon mutant genes but more likely has a salmon mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Salmon is a dominant mutant gene.

A hypo with two salmon genes mated to a pastel with two normal genes -- all babies are hypos with one salmon gene paired with a normal gene. There may be an influence from the pastel parent to produce prettier (IMO) babies than a nonpastel might produce.

A hypo with a salmon gene and a normal gene mated to a pastel with two normal genes -- half the babies are hypos with one salmon gene paired with a normal gene, and the other half of the babies have two normal genes, making them normals. There may be an influence from the pastel parent to produce prettier (IMO) hypo and normal babies than a nonpastel parent might produce.

After the babies arrive, you can tell us whether your hypo has two salmon genes or not.

Good luck.


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

from my understanding pastel is polygenic(forgive my spelling if its wrong). salmon is co-dominant and hypo is recessive in boas. therefore all salmons can be hypos but not all hypos can be salmon. salmon bred to normal will give you around 50% salmon 50% normal. thus meaning salmon to salmon will then create 50% salmon 50% super salmon.


----------



## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

nikko_cali said:


> from my understanding pastel is polygenic(forgive my spelling if its wrong). salmon is co-dominant and hypo is recessive in boas. therefore all salmons can be hypos but not all hypos can be salmon. salmon bred to normal will give you around 50% salmon 50% normal. thus meaning salmon to salmon will then create 50% salmon 50% super salmon.


salmon boa's are hypo boa's - the differane is salmon boa's i believe originated from central america.

therefore if you breed the following would happen

1:1 ratio of Salmon : normal

both could show influences of the pastel, and therefore reduce freckling and make the overall appearance cleaner so essentially it will make them better specimens.

however essentially you will have a 1:1 ration of Salmon to Normal


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

carpy said:


> salmon boa's are hypo boa's - the differane is salmon boa's i believe originated from central america.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> however essentially you will have a 1:1 ration of Salmon to Normal


The original salmon is believed to have been imported from Panama. The original was crossed with a Colombian bci. Since then, there have been crossings with a lot of other snakes from an assortment of localities.

A salmon X normal mating produces a 1:1 ratio of salmon and normal babies only when the salmon parent has a salmon mutant gene paired with a normal gene. This is the most common type of salmon now. As time goes on, salmons with two salmon mutant genes (sometimes called super salmon) will become more common. There are super salmons and possible super salmons on the market now. As time goes on, they will get more common.


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree. what i was explaining is that many people confuse hypo with salmon. salmon meaning co-dominant mutant gene and hypo meaning recessive mutant gene. over here in the states all of them are everywhere. with that being said the prices even in retail store have come down to around 175 us dollars for a salmon.


----------



## martynandkirsty (Jan 13, 2008)

nikko_cali said:


> I agree. what i was explaining is that many people confuse hypo with salmon. salmon meaning co-dominant mutant gene and hypo meaning recessive mutant gene. over here in the states all of them are everywhere. with that being said the prices even in retail store have come down to around 175 us dollars for a salmon.


 i think you may have gotten a little confussed there. hypo and salmon boas are there same thing the salmon boa is just a different line of hypo and work in the exact same way with them both being a co-dominant morph.


----------



## martynandkirsty (Jan 13, 2008)

as for the hypo x pastal breeding its a good choice if you want to make some nice clean bright hypos


----------



## Darren25 (Oct 4, 2008)

Thanks all 

Will be looking for a nice high contrast Salmon in a few months I think.


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

no. i've actually bred a hypo to normal and got all normal and normal het hypo with no homozygous gene. the salmon and hypo litter had 50% salmon het hypo and normal het hypo. there is a difference in MOST cases, and it's one is recessive and one is co-dom.


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

when i describe a snake with little black pigmentation I use hypo. When I am describing a snake I have bred and proven co-dom hypo I use salmon. It is however confusing at times like neither and neither. some will call them hypo some salmon. hypo can be both recessive and co-dom, and i will classify salmon-co dom and hypo recessive. i do definitely see and understand what you are explaining however.


----------



## martynandkirsty (Jan 13, 2008)

nikko_cali said:


> no. i've actually bred a hypo to normal and got all normal and normal het hypo with no homozygous gene. the salmon and hypo litter had 50% salmon het hypo and normal het hypo. there is a difference in MOST cases, and it's one is recessive and one is co-dom.


 there is no such thing as a het hypo they are either hypo or not as hypo is a co dom morph and are not recessive


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

what would salmons be, what is jeff gee's line, and what are f2's f3's f4' and so on?


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

Kingsnake.com - Herpforum - More aboout genetics.....


----------



## martynandkirsty (Jan 13, 2008)

nikko_cali said:


> what would salmons be, what is jeff gee's line, and what are f2's f3's f4' and so on?


 salmons and hypos are one of the same thing and jeff gee's line works the same way as every other hypo line in boas which is co dom. as for f1's f2's and so on that has nothing to do with genetics thats to do with generations f1's being first gen and so on and so forth. as for tha site that does nothing but back up everything i have said.


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

nikko_cali said:


> when i describe a snake with little black pigmentation I use hypo.


Light dawns. On this side of the pond, there are around three recessive mutant genes that reduce the amount of black pigment. Over here, these mutants are commonly called T-positive albinos, but they could easily be called hypos.

The pro geneticists give each mutant gene a unique name. IMO, boa breeders should follow their example. It would save a lot of confusion.

martynandkirsty, heterozygous refers to a gene pair that has two genes that are not the same. Whether a gene is dominant or recessive is irrelevant. A salmon boa has a gene pair that contains a salmon mutant gene and a normal gene. A salmon gene is not the same as the normal gene. Therefore, a salmon boa is heterozygous, and its genotype can be described as het salmon.


----------



## nikko_cali (Jan 5, 2009)

agree to disagree then. i have and know many people who have recessive hypos. their offspring carry the genes and are non showing. they are not homozygous. they could not produce hypos with out the other carrying. like i said, i agree with the fact that salmons are called hypos and visa versa. however to say there are no recessive hypos is ludicrous. i dont know where you are getting that from.


----------

