# Beardy viv challenge



## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi folks,

I've spent the last month or so researching beardies and have decided that it will be a fantastic pet to own. I've read that purchasing a 4ft viv straight away for a baby beardy is a bad move so I've re-purposed my fish tank which is a 30 x 15 x 13 and I've built a mesh lid for it with wooden trim for added weight to keep it down.

Now my plan is to upgrade this at whatever point Mr Beardy gets to the size he'll need to be rehomed at which from what I can tell could be 8-10 months and I reckon I'll probably buy a Hagen Vivexotic Viva bearded dragon viv as the replacement.

So on to my challenge...

What I need to do is come up with a shopping list of essentials (easy enough) BUT I need them to be able to swap over to the new viv whenever that becomes neccessary as I'd rather not spend a couple of hundred pounds on stuff I'll have to swap out later on.

How would you go about figuring out what's "essential" and what can/can't be moved between vivs etc?

Thanks in advance reptile gurus! :notworthy:


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

You would be much better getting a full size viv now and just kitting it out with a load of decor so that the animal feels secure. People suggest smaller tanks to start with due to the stress of open, unusual spaces. You fill it with decor, plenty of hiding places and cover and you get rid of that problem (and save yourself some money in the process). It's also important to get the right size to begin with to get the correct thermogradients, they could be young or old but they still need that wide thermogradient that you'll unlikely get in such a small space.

Shopping list:
- Heating system: this can be *light emitting bulbs and fittings* (halogens, reflector bulbs etc) *or a ceramic*. As you're new to this I would highly suggest getting a *dimming thermostat*. It helps to control the temperature and can safe-guard against overheating. You'll also need at least one *digital thermometer*, don't bother with the rubbish dial ones which are highly inaccurate.
- UV system: The best around at the moment are T5's. I would highly recommend an *Arcadia T5 12%* that stretches 2/3 - 3/4 the length of the viv starting from the hot end. You'll also need a *starter and reflector*.
- Substrate: difficult to answer. If a younger dragon you may want to go for lino/kitchen roll (something they can't swallow). General consensus is to avoid bark chips of any kind.
- Decor/bowls
- Food and supplements: Repashy calcium plus is a good supplement to use. Plenty of info on here about feeding.

That's all I can think of atm. There are a lot of threads on here regarding beardies, pretty much everything you need to know is on here so get searching!


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

As vgorst has said I wouldn't bother with the fish tank. You'll most likely have trouble getting the correct gradient due to the heat loss a fish tank will provide. If you do decide to house him in there to start with then I'd say you'll probably have to reduce the amount of ventilation on the lid especially if its all mesh as it sounds like it may be? All the heat will escape and you'll most likely end up with having too cool ambient temps or a silly high basking temp to try to increase the ambient. Neither of which you want. Even if you do sort ventilation so it holds heat you may find it too small to create a gradient you and your dragon are happy with. Is it worth the hassle?

There's nothing wrong with starting out with a smaller tank (with in reason) as long as you can provide everything needed, mainly the temp gradient as this will be the biggest issue. My advice though, I'm with vgorst, do what the lady says!


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## WinnieeMvP (Feb 4, 2013)

Decor isn't really all expensive, I have slate and stones in mine from outside that I have treated so they stand me at nothing.

If you go for a UV strip I would recommend getting the 4ft and putting a guard half way between so it's only a 2ft etc etc. Base idea is there for you.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

WinnieeMvP said:


> If you go for a UV strip I would recommend getting the 4ft and putting a guard half way between so it's only a 2ft etc etc. Base idea is there for you.


I don't understand what you mean? Do you mean the viv?


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

vgorst said:


> I don't understand what you mean? Do you mean the viv?


I think (s)he means so you can remove the blockage in order to extend the uv when moving it to a larger viv. If you do decide to do this OP remember it is actually the 3ft T5 you want in a 4ft viv.


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## WinnieeMvP (Feb 4, 2013)

tomcannon said:


> I think (s)he means so you can remove the blockage in order to extend the uv when moving it to a larger viv. If you do decide to do this OP remember it is actually the 3ft T5 you want in a 4ft viv.


(he)

And yeah that's what I meant.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

OK folks, thanks for the info; I think I'll just scrap the tank idea then and buy everything new but with plenty of hidey-holes and places to relax for him/her. :2thumb:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

I personally wouldn't even go for the Vivexotic viv either. The dimensions aren't great and they're not exactly cheap.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Meko said:


> I personally wouldn't even go for the Vivexotic viv either. The dimensions aren't great and they're not exactly cheap.


I'm completely open to suggestion on viv to be fair; I just went for that as it looked nice and I thought it could be delivered flat-packed (I only have a little Toyota Yaris so can't pick up a fully built viv)


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Bluelizardreptiles had 4x2x2's last I checked.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

tomcannon said:


> Bluelizardreptiles had 4x2x2's last I checked.


Thanks very much indeed! Cheaper viv but just as good quality means more money to spend on tank "stuff" for him/her to climb on, hide under and enjoy. :notworthy:


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

I have nothing to add (thats not already been said) except :welcomerfuk: and keep us posted when you get said beardie! :2thumb:


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

OK I'm ready to shopping! I've done another shed-load of research and there are mixed opinions on the best way to set up the viv.



vgorst said:


> Shopping list:
> - Heating system: this can be *light emitting bulbs and fittings* (halogens, reflector bulbs etc) *or a ceramic*. As you're new to this I would highly suggest getting a *dimming thermostat*. It helps to control the temperature and can safe-guard against overheating.


1x Pro Rep Basking Spotlamp 100w ES Screw
1x Exo Terra Glow Light Small
1x Microclimate B1 Dimmer Stat 600w



vgorst said:


> You'll also need at least one *digital thermometer*, don't bother with the rubbish dial ones which are highly inaccurate.


1x Exo Terra Digital Thermometer

(I plan on setting everything up and then spending a couple of days using the min/max function to check the minimum and maximum temperatures at each end of the viv during the day and the same at night)



vgorst said:


> - UV system: The best around at the moment are T5's. I would highly recommend an *Arcadia T5 12%* that stretches 2/3 - 3/4 the length of the viv starting from the hot end. You'll also need a *starter and reflector*.


This part confuses me a little as I've heard too many different setup thoughts from people (probably my own fault for researching too much). The main two setups though seem to be:

- A single high powered UV tube like a T5
- Two T8's, 1x 10% and 1x 5%

Kinda feels like T5 is the way to go but I want to check that a single 12% 36" T5 is more than adequate?

Also am I best to mount it right in the middle of the viv so that the light reaches both ends of it and there are no missed spots or do I mount it at the hot end and have more light there and less light at the cool end?

If T5 is the way to go I'll be buying:

1x Arcadia T5 D3 Reptile Lamp
1x Arcadia T5 Controller (I assume I don't need a Twin controller)
1x Arcadia Reflector 30w 36"



vgorst said:


> - Substrate: difficult to answer. If a younger dragon you may want to go for lino/kitchen roll (something they can't swallow). General consensus is to avoid bark chips of any kind.


The place I'm looking at buying from have said that all of their beardies are brought up on reptile specific sand (apparently it's rounded sand and thus doesn't lock together like play/builders sand so won't cause impaction) so if they're used to that I'll get that I reckon.



vgorst said:


> - Decor/bowls
> - Food and supplements


Also I have a list of these that are available locally. I'll see how I get on with those. to start with.

The plan is to start ordering bits today, to go out and buy the viv itself Sunday (my birthday) and then to have it all up and running for a week or so to check temperatures etc and then add mr beardy about a week or so later. :2thumb:


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> 1x Pro Rep Basking Spotlamp 100w ES Screw
> 1x Exo Terra Glow Light Small
> 1x Microclimate B1 Dimmer Stat 600w


That sounds fine, you may find that a 100w is too hot (and in most cases it is for a 4x2x2ft viv). Remember that it doesn't always have to be reptile branded, they over price a simple light bulb a lot this way. A pound shop does just as well 



MiniBlueDragon said:


> 1x Exo Terra Digital Thermometer
> 
> (I plan on setting everything up and then spending a couple of days using the min/max function to check the minimum and maximum temperatures at each end of the viv during the day and the same at night)


That sounds like a good plan :2thumb:



MiniBlueDragon said:


> This part confuses me a little as I've heard too many different setup thoughts from people (probably my own fault for researching too much). The main two setups though seem to be:
> 
> - A single high powered UV tube like a T5
> - Two T8's, 1x 10% and 1x 5%
> ...


People that recommend the two T8's tend to have gotten their information from Pets at Home or old sources. There really is no need for two unless you've got a very high viv. On top of that you would have to replace those 2 bulbs at least every 6 months whereas a T5 will last you a whole year. 

T5's are more powerful and emit more UVB further. T5's really are the way to go straight from the off  A 12% would be fine, however if your viv is 2ft high I would go with a D3+ 12%.



MiniBlueDragon said:


> Also am I best to mount it right in the middle of the viv so that the light reaches both ends of it and there are no missed spots or do I mount it at the hot end and have more light there and less light at the cool end?


It's best to start the UVB from the hot end, that way you get a synchronised thermo- and photogradient.



MiniBlueDragon said:


> The place I'm looking at buying from have said that all of their beardies are brought up on reptile specific sand (apparently it's rounded sand and thus doesn't lock together like play/builders sand so won't cause impaction) so if they're used to that I'll get that I reckon.


Be careful about 'reptile-specific', even though they are branded as such, sometimes they can do reptiles more harm than good. If it's any kind of calci-sand I would stay away. Play sand is absolutely fine, doesn't clump, does a better job and is cheaper. 



MiniBlueDragon said:


> The plan is to start ordering bits today, to go out and buy the viv itself Sunday (my birthday) and then to have it all up and running for a week or so to check temperatures etc and then add mr beardy about a week or so later. :2thumb:


Now you're getting to the fun part!


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Exactly as vgorst has said and I will highlight that you don't need a reptile specific bulb and that playsand is just as good and cheaper. Also you don't need a reptile specific thermometer. Buy a normal household reflective bulb and a cheap thermometer off eBay, they'll do the exact same job and you'll save yourself a tenner. 

Good luck and enjoy!


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## parents of kiki (Nov 1, 2012)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> I'm completely open to suggestion on viv to be fair; I just went for that as it looked nice and I thought it could be delivered flat-packed (I only have a little Toyota Yaris so can't pick up a fully built viv)


we got a fantastic 4ft viv off ebay flat packed to the door 60.00 pound shop on there is 2011homcom does the job 4ft by 2ft by 2ft its a shop that has them in stock all the time we are about to order another for our second beardie hpoe it helps


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks guys; great info! Hopefully it#ll also help others in the future too! 

Regarding the eBay viv I think I found the seller's storefront on there but no luck finding one. I wonder if it's only an occasional item listed. :/

I'll have a look and see what else is available though and if the quality is up with the Blue Lizard Reptiles one I'll give it a go.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Hmmm... After reading Martin88's thread about refitting his viv with a T5 setup I'm thinking perhaps it's better for me to look at buying the single:

- Arcadia T5 Slimline Luminaire 39w

Instead of:

- Arcadia Twin T5 Controller 24-39W
- AR T5 D3plus Reptile Lamp 39W


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

OK last bit of research done and the "twin" will be fine.

I've read a lot of reviews about the Exo Terra Glow Light breaking often and not to buy one. Any ideas for a replacement item or is sticking with that the best idea and just replacing as needed?

Also is the "small" Glow Light adequate for a 48x24x24?


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Well it's been a manic week but here's where I'm at:

- Viv arrived and nearly put my back out carrying it up 6 flights of stairs!
- Viv built.
- 34" T5 lighting installed as a hanging unit. I've hung it 1/3 of the way forward of the back panel and starting 4in from the left of the viv to give a good photo gradient. I've also hung it on velcro strips for now in case I need to move it before bringing mr beardy home. Once I'm certain of position I'll install some hooks for strength.
- 60w spot lamp installed into a Komodo lamp bracket 1/3 of the way from the front and 8in from the left. Also installed on velcro strips in case I need to move it.
- Viv sealed around the bottom, front and half way up the back panels with aquarium sealant. I used literally just enough to fill the 0.5mm gaps to stop sand getting out.

With such a small amount of sealant being used I reckon it'll be dry by the morning so the plan if it is will be to fill with sand and add the decor pieces and install the thermometer to monitor temps throughout the day and then night.

Fingers crossed all will be well and Mon/Tue I'll have a new member of the family. :flrt:


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> Well it's been a manic week but here's where I'm at:
> 
> - Viv arrived and nearly put my back out carrying it up 6 flights of stairs!
> - Viv built.
> ...


I'd whack the T5 all the way to the left as far as possible to increase your photogradient. They kick off a lot of light so will light up the cool end fairly well too! How do you mean by hanging? It should be mounted to the roof so all light comes directly from above the dragon. If it does fine, I just got a little confused by the description! Digital thermometer yes?

Sounds good, I'm excited for you, love setting up new vivs and you're doing it the right way. There's nothing worse than having a rep waiting to go in and you're fiddling away with fittings and temps and all!


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

tomcannon said:


> I'd whack the T5 all the way to the left as far as possible to increase your photogradient. They kick off a lot of light so will light up the cool end fairly well too! How do you mean by hanging? It should be mounted to the roof so all light comes directly from above the dragon. If it does fine, I just got a little confused by the description! Digital thermometer yes?
> 
> Sounds good, I'm excited for you, love setting up new vivs and you're doing it the right way. There's nothing worse than having a rep waiting to go in and you're fiddling away with fittings and temps and all!


Perfectly doable (I knew there was a good argument for the velcro first!  ) and does make sense so I'll shift it over; I just didn't want to leave the cool end lightless when I rigged it up before I turned it on.

By 'hanging' I mean the cables run into the viv from the back panel and along the inside of the roof. They run forward 1/3 of the depth of the viv and then hang straight downward to 1/3 of the way down.
Basically looks somewhat like http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ragon-vivarium-wanting-see-3.html#post3566650 but not against the back wall, 1/3 of the way forward and the tube hanging 1/3 of the way down.

Thermometer is an Exo Terra digital thermometer with probe so fingers crossed. I left it running last night and the low temp in the coolest corner of the viv had a minimum of 18.6c however the lights weren't on for any length of time before that and our power went out during the night so that should be a few degrees higher if the lighting had been run for 12 hours during the day first.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> Perfectly doable (I knew there was a good argument for the velcro first!  ) and does make sense so I'll shift it over; I just didn't want to leave the cool end lightless when I rigged it up before I turned it on.
> 
> By 'hanging' I mean the cables run into the viv from the back panel and along the inside of the roof. They run forward 1/3 of the depth of the viv and then hang straight downward to 1/3 of the way down.
> Basically looks somewhat like http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ragon-vivarium-wanting-see-3.html#post3566650 but not against the back wall, 1/3 of the way forward and the tube hanging 1/3 of the way down.
> ...


How tall is the viv? You need to ensure all light is coming directly from above/your dragon cannot see it from side on as this can cause eye infections/photo-kerato conjunctivitis. If your viv is 24" or less tall and your basking zone is elevated then I would simply mount the T5 directly to the roof behind the front plinth out of view, be sure it has a reflector. You want your basking spot to be 10-14" away from the T5 and the rest of the viv can then be multiple distances so he can self regulate uv exposure.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

tomcannon said:


> How tall is the viv? You need to ensure all light is coming directly from above/your dragon cannot see it from side on as this can cause eye infections/photo-kerato conjunctivitis. If your viv is 24" or less tall and your basking zone is elevated then I would simply mount the T5 directly to the roof behind the front plinth out of view, be sure it has a reflector. You want your basking spot to be 10-14" away from the T5 and the rest of the viv can then be multiple distances so he can self regulate uv exposure.


Ah ok cheers. The viv is 48x24x24.

The reason for thinking about hanging T5 was solely to get every corner of the viv in the light. Mounting on the roof behind the top plinth to the far left would be visually more pleasing and also would put the UV just as close to the basking area but a little more above it which from what you say is perfect. 

The basking lamp is 8in back of the glass and 8in in from the left at the moment so he should get a decent exposure to both when basking.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> Ah ok cheers. The viv is 48x24x24.
> 
> The reason for thinking about hanging T5 was solely to get every corner of the viv in the light. Mounting on the roof behind the top plinth to the far left would be visually more pleasing and also would put the UV just as close to the basking area but a little more above it which from what you say is perfect.
> 
> The basking lamp is 8in back of the glass and 8in in from the left at the moment so he should get a decent exposure to both when basking.


I hear where you're coming from but you don't actually want all four corners bathed in light. You want the t5 mounted in the hot side so the cool end drops off in to shade. This is your thermogradient (temps) matching your photogradient (light). Check this for more info. 

Tom.


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

tomcannon said:


> I hear where you're coming from but you don't actually want all four corners bathed in light. You want the t5 mounted in the hot side so the cool end drops off in to shade. This is your thermogradient (temps) matching your photogradient (light). Check this for more info.
> 
> Tom.


Hmmm I think I didn't explain very well. I was saying that I'd much rather have the T5 mounted and hidden with it's reflector than have it hanging so it's the perfect solution to have it behind the plinth at the front left (and one I've just finished doing)


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> Hmmm I think I didn't explain very well. I was saying that I'd much rather have the T5 mounted and hidden with it's reflector than have it hanging so it's the perfect solution to have it behind the plinth at the front left (and one I've just finished doing)


Gotcha! :2thumb:


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks very much for your help everyone! Yesterday I picked up my new family member and he's happily settling in. I've had a few arm-waving "you're the boss" interactions and he's more than happy to bowl around his new home like he owns it. 

I still need to do a couple of minor tweaks to the viv such as running cables a little more discretely (I assume I can glue-gun cables around the edge as long as he can't get to the glue spots?) but generally I'm happy with the setup so far.



Now onto the task of naming him... :2thumb:


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> [URL=http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w613/MiniBlueDragon/photo1_zpsa99fa9d4.jpg]image[/URL]


Just to be 100% sure on my temperatures for Dexter I bought an infrared thermometer yesterday and it seems that his basking area is a little too cold. I was advised to try a 60w bulb in the holder to begin with and the basking rock is only 5-6in from it so I'm thinking maybe a higher wattage bulb will be a better idea, however if the wattage goes up doesn't that then mean the dimmer will make the bulb dim more so the light level will go down?

I thought about raising the rock even more but that'd be too close for comfort when he's basking on it if it was less than 5in?

Stat is currently set to 35 just to try and squeeze more out of the bulb but I think the temperature on the rock is the same as it was when the stat was at 30.

The stat probe is in the cool end.

Any suggestions please gurus? I'd like Dexter to be able to digest his food ideally.


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## Lil_nightmare (Feb 26, 2011)

MiniBlueDragon said:


> Just to be 100% sure on my temperatures for Dexter I bought an infrared thermometer yesterday and it seems that his basking area is a little too cold. I was advised to try a 60w bulb in the holder to begin with and the basking rock is only 5-6in from it so I'm thinking maybe a higher wattage bulb will be a better idea, however if the wattage goes up doesn't that then mean the dimmer will make the bulb dim more so the light level will go down?
> 
> I thought about raising the rock even more but that'd be too close for comfort when he's basking on it if it was less than 5in?
> 
> ...


Get yaself a higher wattage bulb to try out, a lot of the time its about faffing around until you find what works.

Also...bulb guard


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## Corfel (Apr 29, 2013)

Try a dimmer switch and a higher wattage bulb so that you can adjust it easily to the right temperature rather than juggling bulbs 

Dimmer switch is relatively inexpensive


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

Lil_nightmare said:


> Get yaself a higher wattage bulb to try out, a lot of the time its about faffing around until you find what works.
> 
> Also...bulb guard


Sounds daft but I don't like the idea of him having something to grip onto which will be hot. The bulb by itself is slippery so he's not likely to be able to get to it and even if he does he'll only touch it for a split second rather than gripping a guard for a few seconds and getting burnt?

I have a 100w in there now which has sent the temp soaring to where it should be. I've also lowered his basking rock to make sure he's not going to get too hot and I'll keep monitoring all the temps for the next few hours to be sure all is fine.



Corfel said:


> Try a dimmer switch and a higher wattage bulb so that you can adjust it easily to the right temperature rather than juggling bulbs
> 
> Dimmer switch is relatively inexpensive





MiniBlueDragon said:


> ... however if the wattage goes up doesn't that then mean *the dimmer* will make the bulb dim more so the light level will go down?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


:whistling2:


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## MiniBlueDragon (Apr 11, 2013)

The new bulb is MUCH better and all the temps are now good, thanks! 

I've read a lot of stuff about sand being a bad idea for _new_ beardies as it can cause impaction but Dexter is 9-10in in length already and was brought up on sand so I've been told it's ideal for him as he's be used to it (the store steered me away from calci-sand, wood chip, corn and other substrates known to cause impaction so I don't think they were just trying to sell me sand).

Debating about buying sandstone slabs for the majority of the viv and just having loose sand in between the slabs if it's still a bad move having sand as the main substrate.


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