# Maidstone Reptile Expo's Spring & Summer 2010



## HS

Two dates for your 2010 diaries...
Maidstone Reptile Breeders Expos

*Spring:* Sunday 18th April 2010 *Summer:* Sunday 29th August 2010​ 
Market Hall

Lockmeadow Centre

Barker Road

Maidstone

Kent

ME16 8LW​
Bookings not yet available. But information is. E:mail Darren at [email protected]


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## penfold

ill be ther to suport a well run and busy show for the 3rd year:2thumb:


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## serpentsupplies

we should hopefully be at both next year too.


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## Kerriebaby

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...18th April is 10 days after my Birthday...my first rep show me thinks!

Cant wait


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## cornmorphs

i'm sure i will make the august one... probably too early for me in april


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## Gemstone Dragons

April is the day before i go away - sure i can squeeze in a quick trip though :2thumb:


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## gav_1987

Do you have to be a member to get in or is it open to all?


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## HS

gav_1987 said:


> Do you have to be a member to get in or is it open to all?


At this moment, the show rules are the same as last year, and that was that we were open to all, however those rules could be subject to change.


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## gav_1987

OK, in that case hopefully the show taking place on the 18th will be my first reptile show.


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## ninjalovergirl

Is the Maidstone expo quite big? I am thinking of going with my sister but it is quite a while away so I would have to stay a night in a hotel. I want to know if it will be worth the long trip.


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## Ally

They're in the diary - see you there!


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## penfold

ninjalovergirl said:


> Is the Maidstone expo quite big? I am thinking of going with my sister but it is quite a while away so I would have to stay a night in a hotel. I want to know if it will be worth the long trip.


 its bigger than most:2thumb:


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## ninjalovergirl

penfold said:


> its bigger than most:2thumb:


Oh goodie!  I am so there! : victory:
I don't have any reptiles yet so you never know I may just pick up something! *cough* royal python *cough*


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## inkyjoe

penfold said:


> ill be ther to suport a well run and busy show for the 3rd year:2thumb:


good good, u usually have the most interesting stuff on your table. theres enough stalls with leos, beardies and corns lol


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## wheaty5

Yep ill definatley be their either with a table or just as a buyer haha 
Went to both last year and both were great :2thumb:


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## ditzychick

ninjalovergirl said:


> Oh goodie!  I am so there! : victory:
> I don't have any reptiles yet so you never know I may just pick up something! *cough* royal python *cough*


 
:lol2: exactaly what i was thinking i missed last years due to a stroppy manager not letting me have time off so i booking those day off asap!!!!!!


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## laurencea

ninjalovergirl said:


> Oh goodie!  I am so there! : victory:
> I don't have any reptiles yet so you never know I may just pick up something! *cough* royal python *cough*


that happened to me at the last Maidstone show... i went to look at geckos! if Crownan has any royals you should check out his stall, i'm totally smitten by the one i got off him. :flrt:


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## ditzychick

I will def check his stall out if hes there, thanks.


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## jojo85

Last years was really good I'll be there again this year :2thumb:


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## Rhac's R us

Anybody know how much and how I would go about booking a table ?


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## penfold

email h.s he runs the show:2thumb:


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## Lotus Nut

Will be booking a table or two again at both shows............


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## MRAC

*IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:*

It is with regret that the organisers of the MRAC Reptile Expo scheduled for Spring April 18th and to be held in Maidstone has been postponed.

Earlier this week, the club (MRAC) was presented with new terms & conditions by the local council with regards the hire of the venue that we normally use. To meet with the new terms & conditions we (the organisers) would have to ammend the whole organisation process of the show completely. With this in mind, we (the organisers) feel that there is not enough time to put the new measures in place and still ensure the quality of show that we want to present and that the public and private breeders have become used to over the last couple of years. As well as the new terms & conditions, some of you will know that health problems have plagued the previous shows and as these are ongoing, they have to be taken into account have had some influence on this decision.

We (the organisers) are currently looking in more detail at how we can meet the new terms and conditions, while also exploring other possible venues, although the venue we currently use is/was ideal and will be hard to match.
However, we feel that to postpone the show now is the right thing to do, rather than try to cobble something together in a hurry and compromise the quality of the show.

This was not an easy decision to make and we hope that you understand our reasons for choosing to take this action.

Darren Tubb
(MRAC, Club Secretary)


Note: You will notice that I have posted this from a new account, this is simply because no matter how much I reset my password, I could not log into my old account (HS) and had to re-register to post this message.


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## axvy69

What is it with councils trying to put the moccas on anything half decent ? KILLJOYS!!!


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## snakekeeper84

MRAC said:


> *IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:*
> 
> It is with regret that the organisers of the MRAC Reptile Expo scheduled for Spring April 18th and to be held in Maidstone has been postponed.
> 
> Earlier this week, the club (MRAC) was presented with new terms & conditions by the local council with regards the hire of the venue that we normally use. To meet with the new terms & conditions we (the organisers) would have to ammend the whole organisation process of the show completely. With this in mind, we (the organisers) feel that there is not enough time to put the new measures in place and still ensure the quality of show that we want to present and that the public and private breeders have become used to over the last couple of years. As well as the new terms & conditions, some of you will know that health problems have plagued the previous shows and as these are ongoing, they have to be taken into account have had some influence on this decision.
> 
> We (the organisers) are currently looking in more detail at how we can meet the new terms and conditions, while also exploring other possible venues, although the venue we currently use is/was ideal and will be hard to match.
> However, we feel that to postpone the show now is the right thing to do, rather than try to cobble something together in a hurry and compromise the quality of the show.
> 
> This was not an easy decision to make and we hope that you understand our reasons for choosing to take this action.
> 
> Darren Tubb
> (MRAC, Club Secretary)
> 
> 
> Note: You will notice that I have posted this from a new account, this is simply because no matter how much I reset my password, I could not log into my old account (HS) and had to re-register to post this message.



O well, i am hopeing to hear new dates of the show soon, and are be defianty be going to it.


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## Caz

I'm hoping this *IS* from Darren and not from E.T.! Are we 100% sure?

Can any MODS clarify please?


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## Snakes r grreat

Caz said:


> I'm hoping this *IS* from Darren and not from E.T.! Are we 100% sure?
> 
> Can any MODS clarify please?


Do you have Darrens private email address? If so PM it to me and I'll confirm it for you.


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## Ally

Caz said:


> I'm hoping this *IS* from Darren and not from E.T.! Are we 100% sure?
> 
> Can any MODS clarify please?





Snakes r grreat said:


> Do you have Darrens private email address? If so PM it to me and I'll confirm it for you.


Good thought!
I've pm'd you with the email I have for him too just in case


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## penfold

this is 100%geniune spoke to darren friday


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## Dave-Flames

penfold said:


> this is 100%geniune spoke to darren friday


 
thats arse juice!


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## axvy69

So is it on or not ?


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## axvy69

I'm confused now


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## Molly75

Oh nooos not looking good for 2010 save our reptile shows 

Paula


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## penfold

the show is cancelled


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## Molly75

OH no that's 3 gone so far now  what a shame  
P


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## Paul B

Hi 
it depends what you are looking for. Its a nice show with a fair bit of diversity. Not too many babies in the spring but about 100 tables.


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## Dave-Flames

penfold said:


> the show is cancelled


 
cancelled or postponed?


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## Paul B

awwwwwwwwwww just read the Cancelled post......thats a great shame.
P


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## Kerriebaby

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## penfold

Dave-Flames said:


> cancelled or postponed?


 postponed till next year so cancelled


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## kizzy21_uk

wat bout the august one is that cancelled to?


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## 170pand

kizzy21_uk said:


> wat bout the august one is that cancelled to?


 must be as penfolds said till next year so they cant b doing that one either,,shame i,m only round the corner from it,,:bash:


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## Dave-Flames

lets see how many shows actually happen this year then...


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## MRAC

The April show is cancelled, but at this time the August show is still scheduled to go ahead, pending an agreement between MRAC and the local council.


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## Zak

MRAC said:


> The April show is cancelled, but at this time the August show is still scheduled to go ahead, pending an agreement between MRAC and the local council.


Heres hoping for you guys. Fingers crossed!


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## penfold

fingers crossed for aughust mate just wanna say well done for trying to do these shows as it is a thankless task :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## kizzy21_uk

fingers crossed for August, im grateful i love the show and have got many gorgeous animals from the shows.


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## Kerriebaby

big big fingers crossed for you guys


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## Gemstone Dragons

Sibylla @ Wheredragonsdwell was planning on coming over for the April show, have informed her it is cancelled and am awaiting conformation re the August show :2thumb:


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## lota-front

totally gutted was planning on taking about 80 beardies along  anyone know if any other shows on in the south east ??? i think essex shows haave been cancelled too


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## DazedLewis

this is so annoying I was looking forward to maidstone :/


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## stefnellie

is the one in august still on???


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## c-bebell222

HS said:


> Two dates for your 2010 diaries...
> Maidstone Reptile Breeders Expos
> 
> *Spring:* Sunday 18th April 2010 *Summer:* Sunday 29th August 2010​
> Market Hall
> 
> Lockmeadow Centre
> 
> Barker Road
> 
> Maidstone
> 
> Kent
> 
> ME16 8LW​
> Bookings not yet available. But information is. E:mail Darren at [email protected]


Hi there..how much is it to get into the expo.and what are the openin and closing times etc?
cheers
cb


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## Zimey

c-bebell222 said:


> Hi there..how much is it to get into the expo.and what are the openin and closing times etc?
> cheers
> cb


Dude if you read the thread its says its been cancelled : victory:


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## Natrix

For those that are wondering why yet another show has been cancelled, this press release was issued by APA yesterday.
APA and IAR are working very hard at the moment to stop every reptile show out there so expect more shows to follow this one as councils are duped into banning perfectly legal events.

Natrix 

For immediate release 


*Maidstone Council is commended by animal groups for disallowing a reptile market*


The Animal Protection Agency (APA) and International Animal Rescue (IAR) are delighted that Maidstone Borough Council has effectively refused permission for a reptile market due to take place this Sunday, 18 April 2010 at the Lockmeadow Centre. 



The terms for hire of the Market Hall at the Lockmeadow Centre now include a standard condition that prohibits the sale, or advertising for sale, of animals. The sale of pets at markets was outlawed in 1983 under the Pet Animals Act 1951.



Last year, on 30 August, investigators from the APA and IAR attended a reptile market organised by the ‘Maidstone Reptile and Amphibian Club’, an amateur group of hobbyists and dealers, at the Lockmeadow Centre. Investigators gathered evidence of illegal animal dealing and appalling animal welfare conditions. The sheer volume of animals on sale was inconsistent with the organisers’ claims that the stallholders were private individuals selling a few of their own surplus pets.



Said Animal Protection Agency spokesperson, Elaine Toland: 



“We’re very pleased to see that market trading of reptiles will not be tolerated by Maidstone Council. We have been working alongside local authorities around the country to counter illegal reptile markets and this work seems to be paying off. Unfortunately, event organisers will no doubt persist in mis-representing their events as ‘breeders meetings’ and ‘reptile shows’ when in fact they are large-scale animal trading events.”



Evidence supplied to the Council from last year’s event showed clearly that the conditions at the market would have caused animal suffering. Stalls displayed row upon row of small plastic tubs containing animals, often piled three or four deep. Traders neglected even the most basic biological needs of the animals in terms of light, heat, space, humidity and ventilation.





For more information, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 /07986 535024.



We have an ISDN line for broadcast-quality interviews. 



Issued 13 April 2010





Animal Protection Agency

Brighton Media Centre

15-17 Middle Street

Brighton

BN1 1AL

__________________

Tel: 01273 674253

Fax: 01273 674927

Mobile: 07986 535024

www.apa.org.uk


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## judy

Natrix said:


> For those that are wondering why yet another show has been cancelled, this press release was issued by APA yesterday.
> APA and IAR are working very hard at the moment to stop every reptile show out there so expect more shows to follow this one as councils are duped into banning perfectly legal events.
> 
> Natrix
> 
> For immediate release
> 
> 
> *Maidstone Council is commended by animal groups for disallowing a reptile market*
> 
> 
> The Animal Protection Agency (APA) and International Animal Rescue (IAR) are delighted that Maidstone Borough Council has effectively refused permission for a reptile market due to take place this Sunday, 18 April 2010 at the Lockmeadow Centre.
> 
> 
> 
> The terms for hire of the Market Hall at the Lockmeadow Centre now include a standard condition that prohibits the sale, or advertising for sale, of animals. The sale of pets at markets was outlawed in 1983 under the Pet Animals Act 1951.
> 
> 
> 
> Last year, on 30 August, investigators from the APA and IAR attended a reptile market organised by the ‘Maidstone Reptile and Amphibian Club’, an amateur group of hobbyists and dealers, at the Lockmeadow Centre. Investigators gathered evidence of illegal animal dealing and appalling animal welfare conditions. The sheer volume of animals on sale was inconsistent with the organisers’ claims that the stallholders were private individuals selling a few of their own surplus pets.
> 
> 
> 
> Said Animal Protection Agency spokesperson, Elaine Toland:
> 
> 
> 
> “We’re very pleased to see that market trading of reptiles will not be tolerated by Maidstone Council. We have been working alongside local authorities around the country to counter illegal reptile markets and this work seems to be paying off. Unfortunately, event organisers will no doubt persist in mis-representing their events as ‘breeders meetings’ and ‘reptile shows’ when in fact they are large-scale animal trading events.”
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence supplied to the Council from last year’s event showed clearly that the conditions at the market would have caused animal suffering. Stalls displayed row upon row of small plastic tubs containing animals, often piled three or four deep. Traders neglected even the most basic biological needs of the animals in terms of light, heat, space, humidity and ventilation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For more information, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 /07986 535024.
> 
> 
> 
> We have an ISDN line for broadcast-quality interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> Issued 13 April 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Animal Protection Agency
> 
> Brighton Media Centre
> 
> 15-17 Middle Street
> 
> Brighton
> 
> BN1 1AL
> 
> __________________
> 
> Tel: 01273 674253
> 
> Fax: 01273 674927
> 
> Mobile: 07986 535024
> 
> [URL="http://www.apa.org.uk"]www.apa.org.uk[/URL]


:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::censor::censor::censor:
really pi**ed this show was cancelled. lets hope the august show will go ahead.


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## xxmykyxx

I'm wondering if I'm the only one tempted to phone that number and b**** her out for this idiocy.


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## MRAC

As usual, the press report is not truthful. Not only are reports on animal conditions and failure to provide 'biological' requirements incorrect, but also because the Council did NOT refuse us permission to go ahead with the show. What they actually asked was for us to put in place a few new measures and guarantee that livestock will not be sold to non-members. They still wanted the show open to the public as they feel it is a good family event that is good for the town. I guess Elaine Toland forgot to mention that part.:whistling2:
We have our own reasons for not running the show, of which the rule changes is a large part. But not the total reason.

I have been getting a number of e:mails asking for details on Aprils show, despite advertising everywhere that it is cancelled, and would like to mention once again....
The April show is Cancelled. 
As yet, there has been no decision about the August show, but we will let you know soon.


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## Natrix

MRAC said:


> As usual, the press report is not truthful. Not only are reports on animal conditions and failure to provide 'biological' requirements incorrect, but also because the Council did NOT refuse us permission to go ahead with the show.


It isn't a press report it's a press release by APA and it will of been sent to other councils where council officials will read it and assume it's true. Will MRAC be releasing any information to counter Ms Tolands claim?




MRAC said:


> What they actually asked was for us to put in place a few new measures and guarantee that livestock will not be sold to non-members.


It is perfectly legal for non commercial, hobby breeders to sell animals to the public at a breeders meeting. Have MRAC asked the council why they are putting a regulation in place that removes the civil liberties of those attending the breeders meeting?



MRAC said:


> They still wanted the show open to the public as they feel it is a good family event that is good for the town. I guess Elaine Toland forgot to mention that part.:whistling2:
> We have our own reasons for not running the show, of which the rule changes is a large part. But not the total reason.


If you allow Maidstone council to put these rules in place, you add strength to Ms Tolands incorrect claims and risk other events around the country being effected in the same way. 
Is there a reason why MRAC haven't approached the FBH for help and advice on this matter?



MRAC said:


> I have been getting a number of e:mails asking for details on Aprils show, despite advertising everywhere that it is cancelled, and would like to mention once again....
> The April show is Cancelled.
> As yet, there has been no decision about the August show, but we will let you know soon.


Good luck with the August show

Gordon Glasson
Vice Chairman FBH


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## Austin Allegro

Don't think I will be going to Maidstone for the August show this time if at all it takes place. I am opting for the Kempton Park gig which is two weeks earlier. Don't seem any point in going to a show in the same region within two weeks of each other to see the same people selling the same stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a lot of other people share the same sentiments. Especially the exhibitors who need some definite advance notice that the show is on. 

Also the arrangements for Kempton are up and running and well advanced whereas there is nothing definite about Maidstone which seems to have rolled over and surrendered to Elastaine Toadlands mob and gift horsed them a public relations coup. This seems very disappointing in comparison with the response in Essex and Norwich last year where the clubs dug in and made sure the shows went on. Indeed, the latter sorted out new premises just 48 hours before the show went ahead. In comparison Maidstone postponed the April show 2-3 months ahead of it happening.


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## penfold

Austin Allegro said:


> Don't think I will be going to Maidstone for the August show this time if at all it takes place. I am opting for the Kempton Park gig which is two weeks earlier. Don't seem any point in going to a show in the same region within two weeks of each other to see the same people selling the same stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a lot of other people share the same sentiments. Especially the exhibitors who need some definite advance notice that the show is on.
> 
> Also the arrangements for Kempton are up and running and well advanced whereas there is nothing definite about Maidstone which seems to have rolled over and surrendered to Elastaine Toadlands mob and gift horsed them a public relations coup. This seems very disappointing in comparison with the response in Essex and Norwich last year where the clubs dug in and made sure the shows went on. Indeed, the latter sorted out new premises just 48 hours before the show went ahead. In comparison Maidstone postponed the April show 2-3 months ahead of it happening.


 i think you should keep your comments to your self mate untill you no the whole story behind things not everything is clear cut :devil::devil::devil:


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## Austin Allegro

penfold said:


> i think you should keep your comments to your self mate untill you no the whole story behind things not everything is clear cut :devil::devil::devil:


Sorry to have upset you but as time presses forward without any postive news coming out of Maidstone what should one think about the likelihood of a show taking place there in August?


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## Skorps

Austin Allegro said:


> Don't think I will be going to Maidstone for the August show this time if at all it takes place. I am opting for the Kempton Park gig which is two weeks earlier. Don't seem any point in going to a show in the same region within two weeks of each other to see the same people selling the same stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a lot of other people share the same sentiments. Especially the exhibitors who need some definite advance notice that the show is on.
> 
> Also the arrangements for Kempton are up and running and well advanced whereas there is nothing definite about Maidstone which seems to have rolled over and surrendered to Elastaine Toadlands mob and gift horsed them a public relations coup. This seems very disappointing in comparison with the response in Essex and Norwich last year where the clubs dug in and made sure the shows went on. Indeed, the latter sorted out new premises just 48 hours before the show went ahead. In comparison Maidstone postponed the April show 2-3 months ahead of it happening.



If the Maidstone August Show is on I will go to both Maidstone -over 1 hours drive away and also to Kempton- about 20 mins drive away.

I will go to both to show Support for the Individual Shows.


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## penfold

Austin Allegro said:


> Sorry to have upset you but as time presses forward without any postive news coming out of Maidstone what should one think about the likelihood of a show taking place there in August?


 if it does not happen it does not happen why are you getting on ur high horse


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## Natrix

penfold said:


> if it does not happen it does not happen why are you getting on ur high horse


Penfold
It doesn’t matter to me if the Maidstone show goes ahead or not, that isn’t my concern, my worry is that MRAC may be allowing the council to set local regulations that may spread and effect other shows around the country.
I have PM’d you and MRAC

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman


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## splimmy

Natrix said:


> Penfold
> It doesn’t matter to me if the Maidstone show goes ahead or not, that isn’t my concern, my worry is that MRAC may be allowing the council to set local regulations that may spread and effect other shows around the country.
> I have PM’d you and MRAC
> 
> Gordon Glasson
> FBH Vice Chairman


Yeah thats my worry too :-(

Seems to me this "Elaine" is just glory hunting for her own self rightousness and without knowing a thing about what us reptile/invert groups are about. Really does grind my gears!!!! :devil:


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## Natrix

splimmy said:


> Yeah thats my worry too :-(
> 
> Seems to me this "Elaine" is just glory hunting for her own self rightousness and without knowing a thing about what us reptile/invert groups are about. Really does grind my gears!!!! :devil:


ET is part of a group often refereed to as the antis. While a lot of people like to think they have no effect on the hobby it doesn’t take much to see that this kind of constant chipping away at our rights is very damaging both in the short term and the long term to the hobby.
As for ET not knowing a thing about us! Well what she says in her press release and what she probably knows to be true are two very different things.
The problem with the truth is that it doesn’t create the effect that she is after.


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## Maureen Collinson

Hi Penfold.  

Nothing personal here Hun, and no offence intended but in all honestly with the huge fight that has been raging between the Animal Aid/APA for some years now, lessons should surely have been learnt, and one of them is that you need to unite if you wish to have any chance out there, as reptile hobbyists are without doubt the weaker side. 

Almost all of the shows had been stopped at one time. The FBH fought tooth and nail behind the scenes to get the shows back on, and slowly these were again building up under the guidance and affiliation of the FBH, and now we have shows like the Maidstone one assuming they can go it alone again, which is far from correct, and instead is liable to undo everything that the FBH has done to date to bring about the shows now available. 

Other clubs saw the danger as it stands now, and have joined forces to have the show at Kempton Park and have a united front, and thus will save money if they need to pull in the solicitors to to keep the show on track. Maidstone on the other hand are going against this big time, and in fact refused the offer to unite because they did not have any joice in the venue, and as said by Gordon could now do untold damage here. Is this what you really want to happen????? THe FBH have to rely on dodations and I don't hear or see of many on these forums openly handing over much. Do you or MRAC have any right to expect a bail out from that source when you so openly choose to fight them instead, by ignoring them and their advise. The last show at Maidstone cost the FBH and it's donators a small fortune, and Chris Newman's presence on the day to ensure thier show went ahead. This is not a nice way of saying thanks to them, and it certainly is heading for costing the FBH and it donators even more if it continues following the line it is going down now. Surely you can't believe this to be right Penfold????????

The truth is that Maidstone is a bigger thorn in the side of the FBH than I am, and that is saying something. 

Animal Aid Head Quarters are very close neigbours to Maidstone, so one can expect a head on from them, and the Maidstone Council has shown it buckles under their weight, and so even if MRAC manages to come to some agreement with them, the Council aided by those not wanting this show will continue to find another rule to put in place as is so well known from the past, even having everything settled, and ready to go ahead, and receiving an email at the Council's close of day on a Friday until Monday morning, with yet another ruling that the club have no way around, and can't get hold of anyone to sort it out until after the show date. This happened way back when my local Club was putting on a large show which I was a steward for on an Easter Sunday. The email left the Council Office as they closed on the Thursday evening, and the show had to be cancelled two days before due to go ahead as no one was available at the Council Office to discuss it until the next Tuesday morning, which was the sole intention of it arriving when it did. No one club is capable of fighting that that force on its own, but can instead pull the FBH down further, thus making it bad for the rest of the shows and the reptile community as a whole.

Do people wish to support this action, knowing this????????? I somehow think not, and if it all goes horribly wrong in the future, it will be because of hobbyists who feel they can take on such a mighty force on thier own, and thus splilter their own side whilst doing so.

Mo.


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## MRAC

DON'T YOU DARE try and blame MRAC for what is happening with the shows.
Firstly, as those in the FBH are well aware, MRAC were all up for a joint show.
Only we thought joint meant that we would be consulted about venue and date. Instead we were informed of the venue and date without prior discussion, just an e:mail asking if we were in or not. 
The date also being just two weeks before our own show, thus shedding doubt on whether a Kent show would be viable (that issue still stands).

As for whether we run a show in Maidstone or not effecting what happens with other shows, I don't see any local shows in Essex this year either. They have had to move outside of Essex in order to hold a show themselves, is this not giving in to local councils as well?
The West Midlands show that was held last year is not being held this year either, so we are not the only club that may not be holding a local show.
MRAC will not be a scapegoat just because we haven't joined up with everybody else.

The club has it's own reasons for canceling the April show, and only a small part was due to Elaine Toland and the Council, the others are due to the size of the venue (it was already looking to be too small) and more importantly, serious ill-health on the part of three of it's organisors (which I will not go into detail on an open forum, but those who know me will know about the health issues).

As for Maureen's comments regarding MRAC costing the FBH money. When they helped us in August 2009, we volunteered to pay for any expenses incurred at every step, but were told it was not necessary.

The facts are, the lack of consideration for other shows taken when booking the Kempton Show, the size of the venue (too small now) and the continuing problems of ill-health among the organisors all add up to there being no August show this year. Even without Elaine Toland bothering the council, we would struggle to put on a show that would be up to and exceeding the quality of future shows.


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## kingsnake

The reason BRAS is not putting on a show this year is to avoid hassle. As many know when putting a show on it's not an overnight thing - it takes months of planning. If you try and put a show on and have it cancelled due to the council and not being able to find an alternative venue - then the anti pet/reptile brigade feel they have won. We are joining with the Kempton Show and letting the FBH and other clubs/societies take some of the strain out of organising etc. BRAS weren't bothered by the venue being chosen/booked etc by the FBH because to secure a venue such as Kempton you have to move fairly quickly. The Kempton venue is well know to those insect keepers attending the AES shows annually. Many hands make light work and I'm all for it!


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## penfold

Maureen Collinson said:


> Hi Penfold.
> 
> Nothing personal here Hun, and no offence intended but in all honestly with the huge fight that has been raging between the Animal Aid/APA for some years now, lessons should surely have been learnt, and one of them is that you need to unite if you wish to have any chance out there, as reptile hobbyists are without doubt the weaker side.
> 
> Almost all of the shows had been stopped at one time. The FBH fought tooth and nail behind the scenes to get the shows back on, and slowly these were again building up under the guidance and affiliation of the FBH, and now we have shows like the Maidstone one assuming they can go it alone again, which is far from correct, and instead is liable to undo everything that the FBH has done to date to bring about the shows now available.
> 
> Other clubs saw the danger as it stands now, and have joined forces to have the show at Kempton Park and have a united front, and thus will save money if they need to pull in the solicitors to to keep the show on track. Maidstone on the other hand are going against this big time, and in fact refused the offer to unite because they did not have any joice in the venue, and as said by Gordon could now do untold damage here. Is this what you really want to happen????? THe FBH have to rely on dodations and I don't hear or see of many on these forums openly handing over much. Do you or MRAC have any right to expect a bail out from that source when you so openly choose to fight them instead, by ignoring them and their advise. The last show at Maidstone cost the FBH and it's donators a small fortune, and Chris Newman's presence on the day to ensure thier show went ahead. This is not a nice way of saying thanks to them, and it certainly is heading for costing the FBH and it donators even more if it continues following the line it is going down now. Surely you can't believe this to be right Penfold????????
> 
> The truth is that Maidstone is a bigger thorn in the side of the FBH than I am, and that is saying something.
> 
> Animal Aid Head Quarters are very close neigbours to Maidstone, so one can expect a head on from them, and the Maidstone Council has shown it buckles under their weight, and so even if MRAC manages to come to some agreement with them, the Council aided by those not wanting this show will continue to find another rule to put in place as is so well known from the past, even having everything settled, and ready to go ahead, and receiving an email at the Council's close of day on a Friday until Monday morning, with yet another ruling that the club have no way around, and can't get hold of anyone to sort it out until after the show date. This happened way back when my local Club was putting on a large show which I was a steward for on an Easter Sunday. The email left the Council Office as they closed on the Thursday evening, and the show had to be cancelled two days before due to go ahead as no one was available at the Council Office to discuss it until the next Tuesday morning, which was the sole intention of it arriving when it did. No one club is capable of fighting that that force on its own, but can instead pull the FBH down further, thus making it bad for the rest of the shows and the reptile community as a whole.
> 
> Do people wish to support this action, knowing this????????? I somehow think not, and if it all goes horribly wrong in the future, it will be because of hobbyists who feel they can take on such a mighty force on thier own, and thus splilter their own side whilst doing so.
> 
> Mo.


sorry maureen ive read some crap but that tops it all , ive given to the fighting fund at shows ,as darren said peoples health issues are playing a major part in the show not happening NOT the concil NOT the antis you need to learn the full facts some things are more important than a reptile show and to be honest its only posts like yours that are causing arguements the show is canceled thats it no more . dont use the maidstone show to blame any future failures ,i think that is a real cheek ,ive got tables at kempton and looking forwood to it but also dont agree that it was put on 2 weeks before the scheduled maidstone show are we just supposed to bow out of the way of the fbh ,dont get me wong im not dissing anything they do ,they do a good job but maureen YOU NEED TO KNOW THE WHOLE FACTS BEFORE HAVING A GO AT SOMEONE and yes im well peeeeed :devil:


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## kingsnake

PM each other to carry this on, the ANTIs will be p***ing themselves!


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## penfold

kingsnake said:


> PM each other to carry this on, the ANTIs will be p***ing themselves!


 too right personally i think enough is said should be dropped altogether


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## Maureen Collinson

MRAC said:


> DON'T YOU DARE try and blame MRAC for what is happening with the shows.
> 
> Please calm down and re-read what I wrote. It is not blaming you for what has happened before this, but mearly warning of what could occur with your attitude towards it all.
> 
> Firstly, as those in the FBH are well aware, MRAC were all up for a joint show.
> Only we thought joint meant that we would be consulted about venue and date. Instead we were informed of the venue and date without prior discussion, just an e:mail asking if we were in or not.
> 
> The FBH chose the venue and for very good reasons as surely you can see, or maybe not.
> 
> The date also being just two weeks before our own show, thus shedding doubt on whether a Kent show would be viable (that issue still stands).
> 
> Why would it have done so then if you had been in with them, then the timing would be almost perfect for you all surely. ?????????
> 
> That issue does stand now that you have chosen to go it alone and is a very big one.
> 
> As for whether we run a show in Maidstone or not effecting what happens with other shows, I don't see any local shows in Essex this year either.
> 
> Thats because they have willingly chosen to stand together and hold a joint show so their shows are not cancelled at all, but just moved to another huge venue for now. All power to them in the present climate.It also means they are not allowing their individual Councils the chance to come up with more rulings against the shows that could alter the balance of how other Councils act, thus causing more work and expense for the FBH. Surely that is a responsible action therefore on their parts? but it appears you precieve this in a different way sadly.
> 
> They have had to move outside of Essex in order to hold a show themselves, is this not giving in to local councils as well?
> 
> They have chosen to move outside of Essex for the time being. Is this not a very sensible move considering the costs that could be involved to remain in each individual area????????? They should all be commended for their actions not put down.
> 
> The West Midlands show that was held last year is not being held this year either, so we are not the only club that may not be holding a local show.
> MRAC will not be a scapegoat just because we haven't joined up with everybody else.
> 
> Please re-read when you have calmed down as you have missed the point entirely.
> 
> The club has it's own reasons for canceling the April show, and only a small part was due to Elaine Toland and the Council,
> 
> It would have become a bigger issue if you had persisted, knowing Elaine as I do. I have to give it to her all the way for that and more, and she could wipe the floor with you if she desired to do so, and almost did, but for the FBH, so please bear that in mind when replying here.
> 
> the others are due to the size of the venue (it was already looking to be too small) and more importantly, serious ill-health on the part of three of it's organisors (which I will not go into detail on an open forum, but those who know me will know about the health issues).
> 
> Truly sorry to hear about the others and their ill health, and wish them as pain and stress free a time as is possible depending on their individual circumstances. As you say it is serious, then surely they don't need the pressure of trying hard to put on a show that will without doubt be fraught with stress and problems all of the way, sad as it will be to cancel now, but lives are more important any day.
> 
> As for Maureen's comments regarding MRAC costing the FBH money. When they helped us in August 2009, we volunteered to pay for any expenses incurred at every step, but were told it was not necessary.
> 
> I do understand this MRAC, but even so it *did* cost and therefore until things are fully ironed out it is far too risky to go down that line again. Do your organisers really have the amount it would take to fight another battle with the APA????????Would you happy to risk it also knowing that the Maidstone Council could bring in even more rules that would then see the FBH having to undo them at more cost, or are you saying that MRAC will fund this too if worst comes to worst?
> 
> The facts are, the lack of consideration for other shows taken when booking the Kempton Show, the size of the venue (too small now) and the continuing problems of ill-health among the organisors all add up to there being no August show this year. Even without Elaine Toland bothering the council, we would struggle to put on a show that would be up to and exceeding the quality of future shows.



MRAC,

I think you need to sit back and calm down please, as you have replied here in anger, and have not fully taken in what I wrote above. This is not a good sign for someone in charge as you are at present. 

Mo.


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## Natrix

OK DING DING end of round one, could everybody please return to their corners for a rub down and a glass of water.
While I write my reply

Please

Gordon
FBH Vice Chairman


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## Natrix

Right, for the record Penfold and myself have been in communication via PM for the last two days. We have discussed the current situation in Maidstone and hopefully there may still be something that the FBH can do to solve the new rules laid down by the council. It's very early days as yet so no promises. As suggested by Penfold there are also health problems involved and this really is a case of the Anti's spotting an opportunity, playing dirty and kicking a club while it was down. 

To those defending the hobby and the FBH, thankyou for your support, it's great to see such solid support and bodes well for the future of our hobby. Please be assured that all parties that need to be talking on this subject are now talking so please let this topic have a well earned rest and give MRAC a chance to get things back on course.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman


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## H3nry

Is the expo tomorow even on.......


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## onemanandhisfrog

havent read every post sorry, but is the show tomorrow cancelled at maidstone?


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## penfold

no show tomoz sorry guys


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## rum&coke

Yeah no maidstone show because of organizers health issues.I know this because he is my bro in law.


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## onemanandhisfrog

ok thanks, and your in sittingbourne too! lol:2thumb: dont suppose you breed leucomelas do you?


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## djbugzzy

rum&coke said:


> Yeah no maidstone show because of organizers health issues.I know this because he is my bro in law.


Hi i bin readin the posts is there going to be a show in 2011/2012 ?


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## djbugzzy

penfold said:


> no show tomoz sorry guys


Hi im new to the sight was the penfold ? Tryed the sight it down atm


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## Austin Allegro

No Maidstone has gone belly up


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