# Why has my water turned cloudy?



## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Saturday I finally re-homed the gouramis that I never wanted in the first place. So we scrubbed out the tank boiled all the stones and cleaned the filter etc. and filled it up ready for the goldfish that I've wanted for over a year!

On Sunday afternoon off I went to get me a few little goldfishies and come back all happy - introduce them to the tank, feed them coo over them etc.

Monday morning, gets up feed, coo, love the fishies, go to work come back - cloudy tank! I can barely see them! Gived them noms to get them to come to the top and they're all there and happy eating away.

So I phoned the Mummy to complain and stress, gone in the kitchen for about three seconds come back and one's dead!

Still cloudy this morning - don't understand


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

did you clean the filter in clean water or old tank water?

(i'm thinking old if you've had fish for a while but i might as well ask)


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

daftlassieEmma said:


> did you clean the filter in clean water or old tank water?
> 
> (i'm thinking old if you've had fish for a while but i might as well ask)


We clean it with fresh water from the tap and we bought some new spoungey stuff for it.


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## TRISTAN_HALL (Jun 9, 2009)

Did u give the filter a nice clean under the tap ?if so all the bacteria that brakes down fish waste ,had been killed ! and when setting up a tank its best to have it running for a week before u put some fish in it and not to meany as the bacteria need to be build-up! there are stuff on the market to get the bacteria up! what i would do is not feed them and do some water changes!. gold fish are dirty fish they eat loads,so the filter needs to be at its best! tristan (worked 10 years in the aquastore bath) hope this helps .dont be upset just keep trying! u will get there in the end:2thumb:


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

have you put any new decor in there ...


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

uh oh,

in short, you've killed all the bacteria in the filter that eat up the fish waste, then you have added a couple of really messy fish, that produce alot of waste, so your waste levels have gone through the roof,

not too tricky to fix, just do a 50% water change making sure you use dechlorinator for the new water, and cut right back on the feeding, just once every other day, whatever they will eat in just over a minute, if there is any left after a minute just net it out.

the cloudyness your seeing, is a *bacterial bloom* just the bacteria re-colonising, 

to help speed things up, pop along to your local fish place, and pick up some tetra safestart, all will be fixed in a couple of days :2thumb:


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

TRISTAN_HALL said:


> Did u give the filter a nice clean under the tap ?if so all the bacteria that brakes down fish waste ,had been killed ! and when setting up a tank its best to have it running for a week before u put some fish in it and not to meany as the bacteria need to be build-up! there are stuff on the market to get the bacteria up! what i would do is not feed them and do some water changes!. gold fish are dirty fish they eat loads,so the filter needs to be at its best! tristan (worked 10 years in the aquastore bath) hope this helps .dont be upset just keep trying! u will get there in the end:2thumb:





Kev132 said:


> uh oh,
> 
> in short, you've killed all the bacteria in the filter that eat up the fish waste, then you have added a couple of really messy fish, that produce alot of waste, so your waste levels have gone through the roof,
> 
> ...


Thank you! I'll get some tetra safestart on the way home, what does that do? 

And I'll do a 50% change tonight and feed them every other day until when?

I used stuff in the water that takes out the chlorine and some other stuff and reduces the ph to 6.5. Was that right?


No new plants or decor by the way


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Kev132 said:


> uh oh,
> 
> in short, you've killed all the bacteria in the filter that eat up the fish waste, then you have added a couple of really messy fish, that produce alot of waste, so your waste levels have gone through the roof,
> 
> ...


 
yep! i call it cooking... your tank is cooking with bacteria... the heterotrophic bacteria will die in a couple of days and it will clear... do water changes to keep your levels from spiking and innoculate the tank with the beneficial, aerobic bacteria... it's cycling.

always rinse out your filter media with the waste water from the tank to preserve the bacteria... which reminds me... i have to do my big tank today... where's my bucket and syphon?


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Sid.lola said:


> Thank you! I'll get some tetra safestart on the way home, what does that do?
> 
> And I'll do a 50% change tonight and feed them every other day until when?
> 
> ...


The tetra safestart is basicly the bacteria you killed, in a bottle, so puts it back for you, 

the 50% water change will dilute the waste already built up in there by half, so will give you a head start, its probably a good idea to leave it an hour or so after the waterchange before you put the safestart in, so that it gives the dechlorinator time to get rid of the chlorine before you put the bacteria back in,

also, pour the safestart in, near the inlet of the filter, as this is where it needs to be really 

feed them once everyother day for a week or so and see where we are at, if all is going well then put it back to once a day, but wait and see how things go


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

HABU said:


> yep! i call it cooking... your tank is cooking with bacteria... the heterotrophic bacteria will die in a couple of days and it will clear... do water changes to keep your levels from spiking and innoculate the tank with the beneficial, aerobic bacteria... it's cycling.
> 
> always rinse out your filter media with the waste water from the tank to preserve the bacteria... which reminds me... i have to do my big tank today... where's my bucket and syphon?





Kev132 said:


> The tetra safestart is basicly the bacteria you killed, in a bottle, so puts it back for you,
> 
> the 50% water change will dilute the waste already built up in there by half, so will give you a head start, its probably a good idea to leave it an hour or so after the waterchange before you put the safestart in, so that it gives the dechlorinator time to get rid of the chlorine before you put the bacteria back in,
> 
> ...


I understands (even Habu) - thanks for the help


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Sid.lola said:


> I understands (even Habu) - thanks for the help


Np's, hope your fish are OK when you get home...


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> Np's, hope your fish are OK when you get home...


Me too - I was lucky to find a fancy goldfish that looked exactly the same as the one in my head. If it dies I'll be devastated


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Sid.lola said:


> We clean it with fresh water from the tap and we bought some new spoungey stuff for it.


Oh oh...:gasp:...you effectively killed all your filter bacteria so now the tank is cycling again which means the poor goldfish will be exposed to toxic levels of ammonia and/or nitrite. You'll need to start doing daily water changes of at least 50% until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero i.e. until a new colony of filter bacteria has been established. This process can take up to a month so be patient...:whistling2:



Kev132 said:


> to help speed things up, pop along to your local fish place, and pick up some tetra safestart, all will be fixed in a couple of days





Kev132 said:


> The tetra safestart is basicly the bacteria you killed, in a bottle, so puts it back for you


No it doesn't - a complete waste of money. :whistling2:

The only one of those products that actually works is BioSpira - a source of refrigerated live bacteria that's only available in the USA. It would be far more useful to take in a clean plastic cup and ask if you can have some filter squeezings from one of their tanks and then pour this over your own filter sponges - this will help to kickstart the cycle for you. : victory:


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Trillian said:


> Oh oh...:gasp:...you effectively killed all your filter bacteria so now the tank is cycling again which means the poor goldfish will be exposed to toxic levels of ammonia and/or nitrite. You'll need to start doing daily water changes of at least 50% until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero i.e. until a new colony of filter bacteria has been established. This process can take up to a month so be patient...:whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not being funny mate, but i deal with this problem at least twice a week, and yes, tetra aquasafe really DOES work, having seen it not used and used on litterally hundreds of tanks over the 7or 8 years ive worked in aquatics, i think im qualified to say whether its worth spending your money on or not,

not to start an argument, but doing 50% water changes daily, no wonder the process can take up to a bloody month, you'd be constantly knocking the beneficial bacteria levels back with such large and consistant water changes !!!!!! :bash:

how was your fishies when you got back sid ?


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Trillian said:


> Oh oh...:gasp:...you effectively killed all your filter bacteria so now the tank is cycling again which means the poor goldfish will be exposed to toxic levels of ammonia and/or nitrite. You'll need to start doing daily water changes of at least 50% until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero i.e. until a new colony of filter bacteria has been established. This process can take up to a month so be patient...:whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Filter squeezings - would it be safe to take these from a trpical tank or are there different levels of bacteria?



Kev132 said:


> Not being funny mate, but i deal with this problem at least twice a week, and yes, tetra aquasafe really DOES work, having seen it not used and used on litterally hundreds of tanks over the 7or 8 years ive worked in aquatics, i think im qualified to say whether its worth spending your money on or not,
> 
> not to start an argument, but doing 50% water changes daily, no wonder the process can take up to a bloody month, you'd be constantly knocking the beneficial bacteria levels back with such large and consistant water changes !!!!!! :bash:
> 
> how was your fishies when you got back sid ?


Aquasafe or safestart? Either way I couldn't remember the name of the stuff went all the way to petsmart and explained what it was and what I'd done. Came back with bloody easybalance, which is exactly the same as the stuff I already used!

One more dead  the fancy still fighting on though


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

sorry it is safestart, i was a little annoyed at the post above so wasnt thinking straight :whistling2:

easybalance isnt going to do you any favours, you should be using aqua plus/aqua safe as your dechlorinator, and safestart just the once to boost the bacteria !

did you do the waterchange ? which dechlorinator is it you have got now ?


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> sorry it is safestart, i was a little annoyed at the post above so wasnt thinking straight :whistling2:
> 
> easybalance isnt going to do you any favours, you should be using aqua plus/aqua safe as your dechlorinator, and safestart just the once to boost the bacteria !
> 
> did you do the waterchange ? which dechlorinator is it you have got now ?


I'm gonna try and get the safestart tonight. 

I still have a lot of the dechlorinator I used with the tropical fish, I don't know the name of it - it's a powder rather than a liquid and I mix it up myself and add it to the tank slowly.

I did change some of the water and it was a little better but it's still just as cloudy this morning


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Kev132 said:


> Not being funny mate, but i deal with this problem at least twice a week, and yes, tetra aquasafe really DOES work, having seen it not used and used on litterally hundreds of tanks over the 7or 8 years ive worked in aquatics, i think im qualified to say whether its worth spending your money on or not,
> 
> not to start an argument, but doing 50% water changes daily, no wonder the process can take up to a bloody month, you'd be constantly knocking the beneficial bacteria levels back with such large and consistant water changes !!!!!! :bash:
> 
> how was your fishies when you got back sid ?


Bolllucks!

It doesn't work. What exactly is feeding the bacteria in the bottle? Nothing. It's dead. 
I deal with this 20+ times a week, I think I'm qualified as well.  

Sid, do as many water changes as you can, and feed as little as possible. Once every few days will be fine. Don't buy anymore fish!

Do you know anyone else with a fishtank? If so, ask them for one of their sponges from their filter, but keep it wet and get it into your filter ASAP.

What Trillian said was completely right. :no1:


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Esfa said:


> Bolllucks!
> 
> It doesn't work. What exactly is feeding the bacteria in the bottle? Nothing. It's dead.
> I deal with this 20+ times a week, I think I'm qualified as well.
> ...


dont be stupid you little :censor: and 20 times a week, yeah ok ... for how long ? eternity ? :whistling2:

have you never heard of preservatives ? why do you think it has such a short shelf life and has to be kept within a certain temperature range ? 


im THAT confident it works, with the method i stated, that sid, i will pay for the safestart, and if it works (within 3-4 days), you can give me the money back, if it doesnt, then my loss


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

You'll be out of pocket then. 
If it worked, then why do 1000s of fish keepers spend weeks doing fishless cycling?

IT DOES NOT WORK.
Both types of bacteria start dying if it is not refrigerated. 

Sid, there's no harm in trying it if you want. But still do 50% water changes and feed as little as possible.


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

why do millions of people buy safestart every year ? you have no argument fella....

it works, get over it, it may not be your preffered method, but thats your problem, 

im not saying your way doesnt work, there is nothing better than live, mature bacteria from a running filter, however, from my experience, doing *as regular as you can* 50% water changes knocks the bacteria back anyway !!!! :bash:

initial 50% waterchange, cut back on the feeding big time, and safestart = problem solved, tried it, advised it, and doen the water tests before and after hundreds of times and it works, sometimes, depending on how high the ammonia and nitrite was prior to the problem the initial water change *may* be followed by a coupel of 30% ones later in the week....

ive put my money where my mouth is, why would i if it doesnt work ? i cant say any fairer than that !!!


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> Not being funny mate, but i deal with this problem at least twice a week, and yes, tetra aquasafe really DOES work


No, it doesn't. If it did, why do people still have fish dying during the cycling process, despite using it? :Na_Na_Na_Na:



> you'd be constantly knocking the beneficial bacteria levels back with such large and consistant water changes!


You'd think that after 7/8 years of working in the business, you'd know that the filter bacteria are in the filters, not the water...:whistling2:



Sid.lola said:


> Filter squeezings - would it be safe to take these from a trpical tank or are there different levels of bacteria?


Perfectly safe. The same bacteria process the ammonia and nitrite in both tropical and coldwater tanks. : victory:



Esfa said:


> It doesn't work. What exactly is feeding the bacteria in the bottle? Nothing. It's dead. I deal with this 20+ times a week, I think I'm qualified as well.


:2thumb:



> What Trillian said was completely right.


:notworthy:



Kev132 said:


> why do millions of people buy safestart every year ?


Duped by false advertizing...what a shocker. :bash:


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Trillian said:


> No, it doesn't. If it did, why do people still have fish dying during the cycling process, despite using it? :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Due to miss using it, if it is dumped into a new tank along with the dechlorinator, the chlorine that hasnt yet been removed, kills it :2thumb:
> 
> ...



Seeing as you want to be so picky and petty.... ^^^


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> Seeing as you want to be so picky and petty.... ^^^


I prefer not to add unnecessary chemicals to my tanks and I have first hand experience of people who have used SafeStart to no effect so let's just agree to differ then. :whistling2:


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Due to miss using it, if it is dumped into a new tank along with the dechlorinator, the chlorine that hasnt yet been removed, kills it :2thumb:


well, no, the bacteria lives on ANYTHING it can stick to, the glass, the gravels, the plants, the ornaments, aswell as the filter and filter sponges, regardless of where the bacteria is, immature water harms it, and the more water changes you do, the more you kill : victory:
It's called biofilm. But about 90% of the bacteria is in the filter. Thus, waterchanges have no effect on them. "Immature" water? What do you mean by this? The only thing that will harm is is pH swings and tempetature due to denaturing, or chlorine or any other anti-bacterial stuffs.

trueish, however the temperature shock may kill the bacteria, however as its so warm at the moment, should be fine :devil:
This is true.

do you REALLY think, such a large company would get away with that ?, 
YES.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Esfa said:


> do you REALLY think, such a large company would get away with that ?,
> YES.


My hero...:lol2:


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Water's still cloudy but now I can actually see through it 

My colleague is going to bring me some of the bacteria from her tropical tank tomorrow so no need for the safestart right? (regardless of whether it does or doesn't work. I'm not qualified to have an opinion either way)

What is this cycling and should I be doing it? If it's changing water I already do it (not neccessarily doing it right though judging by this disaster) 

Of course if it actually involves any cycling I'm busy :whistling2:


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## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

Cycling you do before you put the fish in. So it's too late now.
Hope your fancy fishy is ok


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

angela__k__84 said:


> Cycling you do before you put the fish in. So it's too late now.
> Hope your fancy fishy is ok


What is it then?


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## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

You run a fishless cycle with your tank set up exactly as you want until your PH/nitrate levels etc are spot on. Basically a way of setting up the filter and bacteria before putting fish into a new tank with new filter and no established bacteria.
Frequently asked questions on fishless cycling | Practical Fishkeeping magazine


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/fish-keeping/83288-inroducing-fishless-cycling.html

There you gos Sid!

Fish produce ammonia as waste, and the ammonia is deadly to fish. So you need to grow bacteria in your filter to break down the ammonia into nitrite. But nitrite is also deadly to fish, so you need another bacteria to grow in your filter to break it down into nitrate, which is harmless to fish when low. This is called the nitrogen cycle.

To grow the bacteria, you need to have ammonia in the water to feed it. This can be done by adding pure ammonia, or fish food/prawns which breaks down into ammonia, which is then converted to nitrite to feed the other bacteria. This way you can "cycle" your tank without any livestock, therefore not exposing any animals to deadly levels of toxins.

Some people cycle with fish though. They get a few "hardy" fish which produce ammonia to feed the bacteria. This will kill them or shorten their lives, by damaging their gills.

Then there's the bottles which claim to have the bacteria already in them, but many fish keepers doubt these work.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Esfa said:


> Bolllucks!
> 
> It doesn't work. What exactly is feeding the bacteria in the bottle? Nothing. It's dead.
> I deal with this 20+ times a week, I think I'm qualified as well.
> ...


 i was going to suggest that... we have several brands of beneficial bacteria in stasis here in the states... that bio-spira smells of swamp gas but the other brands work nicely... short of that do what you have said... get some live filter media or gravel to seed your tank and accelerate the growth of your bacteria bed...

change the water just enough to keep your levels down below the toxic threshold...
: victory:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Esfa said:


> Then there's the bottles which claim to have the bacteria already in them, but many fish keepers doubt these work.


Because, apart from the aforementioned BioSpira, they don't...:whistling2:


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

It's still a tiiny bit cloudy today but 9999999999 times better than it was, at least I can see the fishies now. And my fancy golfish survived so yay! I only lost two fish through the whole thing.

Do I keep changing the water or is it best just to let it sort itself out from here?


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Sid.lola said:


> Do I keep changing the water or is it best just to let it sort itself out from here?


Can you get the water tested at all?
I'd do water changes until you know there's no ammonia or nitrite. :2thumb:


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Esfa said:


> Can you get the water tested at all?
> I'd do water changes until you know there's no ammonia or nitrite. :2thumb:


I has testing kit.


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## cjd99 (Apr 8, 2009)

just a quick question, how much you feeding them?


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Sid.lola said:


> Do I keep changing the water or is it best just to let it sort itself out from here?





Esfa said:


> I'd do water changes until you know there's no ammonia or nitrite.


As Esfa said. : victory:

It might do no harm to cut the feeding back to every other day also until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero.


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

cjd99 said:


> just a quick question, how much you feeding them?


I did this:



Trillian said:


> As Esfa said. : victory:
> 
> It might do no harm to cut the feeding back to every other day also until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero.


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## cjd99 (Apr 8, 2009)

ooops my bad


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