# Cuviers Dwarf Caiman



## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi,, can somebode give me an idea on heating costs for a cuviers dwarf caimain? i already have the tank sorted,, and i know what i need to get and i knwo what i need to to to look after one. what im asking is is what is the cost for heating a caimans tank for say a month or 2 months?heating anf filter i should say.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

depends on the size of the tank mate, if its an adult, then the tanks are gonna be room sized, whats the dimensions?


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

5 x 2 x 2.
I already knwo the sizes the area needs to be for adults. i just wanna know what its gonna cost to heat a tank starting off.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

na thats cool mate, I was just wondering what the size was else no one would be able to estimate costs


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

The water heater I was looking at was about 60-69 pounds, from a aquatic specialist.


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

Oh want pics when you get it!!!!!


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## wilko69 (Jun 22, 2008)

oooo put pics up when u get it!!! :2thumb:


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

Excellent!
I've got plans in the pipeline, with getting one.
But after pricing it all up, I came up with the conclusion that I couldn't afford one at the moment. 
But I will get one at some point. 

hopefully soon.


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

Reptiles_Rock said:


> Hi,, can somebode give me an idea on heating costs for a cuviers dwarf caimain? i already have the tank sorted,, and i know what i need to get and i knwo what i need to to to look after one. what im asking is is what is the cost for heating a caimans tank for say a month or 2 months?heating anf filter i should say.


Have you got your DWA ?


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

I dont need a DWA where i am,, im the ROI.


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

Reptiles_Rock said:


> I dont need a DWA where i am,, im the ROI.


Lucky you


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

We will at some point but not as of yet..its proposed to be braught in within the next 10 years,, venomous species and crocs is all thats on it as far as reptiles are concerned as far as iv been told.
So any ideas on heating costs fot the tank, 5 x 2 x 2 and filter costs for say 2 months? (length of time between our electric bills).
just say for the way uu have your tank set up,,,only a few inches of water at first,,.


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

I never really calculate it to be honest .....

I have a wife and 3 kids , so washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, 50" plasma, stereos, phones charging everything really , and they are all on the go all the time.

Plus my Reptile room , snake, scorpions, tarantulas, Yemen, Beardies... it all adds up.

So after all that ranting on , I dont know a specific cost for heating and filters, I had it set up as a marine tank for 6 years before, so this is cheap in comparison ...

Steve


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Reptiles_Rock said:


> 5 x 2 x 2.
> I already knwo the sizes the area needs to be for adults. i just wanna know what its gonna cost to heat a tank starting off.


Not being funny but that seems way to small, that might hold a baby for a year max. Then you will need to upgrade !!


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Not being funny but that seems way to small, that might hold a baby for a year max. Then you will need to upgrade !!


For a baby I read it needed 4.2.2. and 9.4.4 for an adult.
and you I just watched a documentorie saying you do need a DWA license in ROI.... 

Correct me if i'm wrong?????


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

Sorry that was about the North of Irland


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Well thats fine if he wants to get a new aquarium every 9-12 months.

Despite all this rubbish that crocs, caiman and alligators only grow to the size of there cages, they grow at a fairly rapid rate.

In my opinion its a good job he dosent need DWA, because he wouldnt get it passed !!


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Well thats fine if he wants to get a new aquarium every 9-12 months.
> 
> Despite all this rubbish that crocs, caiman and alligators only grow to the size of there cages, they grow at a fairly rapid rate.
> 
> In my opinion its a good job he dosent need DWA, because he wouldnt get it passed !!


Not where I live anyway !!


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

fangsy said:


> Not where I live anyway !!


Nor me !!


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Well thats fine if he wants to get a new aquarium every 9-12 months.
> 
> Despite all this rubbish that crocs, caiman and alligators only grow to the size of there cages, they grow at a fairly rapid rate.
> 
> In my opinion its a good job he dosent need DWA, because he wouldnt get it passed !!


As far as I've read dwarf caimen don
t like being kept in a tank thats too big, so even where it only needed for a year it's still better to get the 4.2.2 then move on....
I had a growth radiant for dwarf caiman. some where.


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

here the one,
in a year they'll get to 17inch so would probably be ok with a 4.2.2 of a bit longer than a year, and not that i recommend it you can slow the growth down by lowering the water temp. 

Paleosuchus Page - Main page


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## Adam_R (Sep 26, 2007)

ScottGB said:


> For a baby I read it needed 4.2.2. and 9.4.4 for an adult.
> and you I just watched a documentorie saying you do need a DWA license in ROI....
> 
> Correct me if i'm wrong?????


i would of thought even a baby caiman would like summit around 6x2x2 and adult i thought would need more than 9x4x4 as dont these get like 5ft ? i might be wring dont know alot bout em lol,but at 5ft surely you would be looking at more around 9x6x6 at very least ideal would probably be like 10x8x8 ?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah definately a curviers would barely be able to turn around in a 9x4x4 as an adult that is far too small.


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

I just read this from that caiman care, not sure were I got the 9.4.4:

The size of the cage or enclosure depends on the size of the caiman. German laws will state that the land are needs to be 3 x SVL by 4 x SVL, whilst the water part is 4 x SVL by 5 x SVL. SVL = Snout-vent length - ie. length from the tip of the snout to the vent (or 'bum hole' !). So, for an adult _Paleosuchus_ that is about 4.5 feet long, you'd need a cage where the land was roughly 6ft by 8ft, and the water section was 8ft by 10 ft. That's pretty big, isn't it! How's the living room looking now ?


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

ScottGB said:


> As far as I've read dwarf caimen don
> t like being kept in a tank thats too big, so even where it only needed for a year it's still better to get the 4.2.2 then move on....
> I had a growth radiant for dwarf caiman. some where.


Mate its the bigger the better, providing hides are provided, thats why most keepers buy bigger for when its a baby so it can grow in it, then only have to buy/build an adult cage.

Somehow i dont think baby caiman are kept in 4x2x2 ponds in the wild, bearing in mind half of that cage needs to be land.

6x3x2 is what you want to be looking at for a BABY, when its an adult you need a whole room for it !!

Besides if he did have to have a DWA, every enclosure would need to be checked to see if it meets the necessary standard, and fangsy and other caiman owners will tell you how much of a pain it is to get one enclosure passed, never mind one every year !!


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

Adam_R said:


> i would of thought even a baby caiman would like summit around 6x2x2 and adult i thought would need more than 9x4x4 as dont these get like 5ft ? i might be wring dont know alot bout em lol,but at 5ft surely you would be looking at more around 9x6x6 at very least ideal would probably be like 10x8x8 ?


Thats why I am converting my whole garage .....


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## Adam_R (Sep 26, 2007)

fangsy said:


> Thats why I am converting my whole garage .....


quality idea mate ,your caiman will love that for sure


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Adam_R said:


> quality idea mate ,your caiman will love that for sure


Should hope so the amount of money it will cost !!


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Not being funny but that seems way to small, that might hold a baby for a year max. Then you will need to upgrade !!


iv seen em being kept in that size for 2 or 3 years. i didnt ask if any1 thaubght tank size was silly. im asking for heating costs!


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Either way that tank size is way to small, your jepodising the welfare of the animal because of your own personal funds !!

Heres an idea save up for a few years then buy a tank thats actually good enough to give the animal the quality of life it deserves !!


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

ScottGB said:


> I just read this from that caiman care, not sure were I got the 9.4.4:
> 
> The size of the cage or enclosure depends on the size of the caiman. German laws will state that the land are needs to be 3 x SVL by 4 x SVL, whilst the water part is 4 x SVL by 5 x SVL. SVL = Snout-vent length - ie. length from the tip of the snout to the vent (or 'bum hole' !). So, for an adult _Paleosuchus_ that is about 4.5 feet long, you'd need a cage where the land was roughly 6ft by 8ft, and the water section was 8ft by 10 ft. That's pretty big, isn't it! How's the living room looking now ?


so what that quote is saying is not a 9x4x4 vivarium at all. it is saying a land area of 8x6, PLUS a water are of 8x10 feet. so realistically you are looking at an enclosure of around 18x14 - but ideally something larger


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

carpy said:


> so what that quote is saying is not a 9x4x4 vivarium at all. it is saying a land area of 8x6, PLUS a water are of 8x10 feet. so realistically you are looking at an enclosure of around 18x14 - but ideally something larger


Yep it sounds like it, yet in a book i've got, I'm sure it say's that a 9x4x4 would do. cos it was the same spec that a Burmese cos I was going to try and have a dwarf in a tank and a viv on top. I'll have to fish that book out and see what it says


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

dont listen to half the people on here mate. iv had curvers in germany and what people are forgetting is they are one of the slowest growing. they usually do best with alot of substrate and high humidity. they dont need as much water as say a spec caiman or a black. make sure theres lots of real plants and foliage.


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Either way that tank size is way to small, your jepodising the welfare of the animal because of your own personal funds !!
> 
> Heres an idea save up for a few years then buy a tank thats actually good enough to give the animal the quality of life it deserves !!


I know for a fact that most people do keep them in 5 x 2 x 2 tanks for their first 2 - 3 years and they do fine in that size tank.
Like i said,, i didnt ask for your opinion on tank size,, i asked for opinions on HEATING.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I have seen caiman kept in a tank of that size for a while, they arnt exactly the fastest growing creatures, the adult set up that I have seen is a room sized enclosure which is 10-15ft square its a bit hard to judge it, but its pretty big.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

that room would be good for blacks or specs but a curvers would get lost in it. as i said before they are very slow growing and are usually found in dence foilage. they can go for days with out going anywhere near a body of water, taking moister from the humid air. but as always people on here seem to think that reading a few books makes them an expert. keep one for a few years and then you will see how silly some of the things said on this thread seem. curvers are nothing like any other caiman


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

im just thinking of the setup Jerry Cole has, its definately at least 10ft square.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

and whats in it?


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

all this other cack aside - 


how can we tell you what a heater will cost to run without knowing how much power the heater will use?

To calculate power usage we need to know:

what power costs you
how muhc power the heater draws
how long it will be on for.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

more than one adult caiman, a breeding trio I think but not entirely sure.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

what were they specs, dwarfs??


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

ah sorry mate, they are curviers dwarf caiman


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

i see what you mean now. that will do for a breeding setup but come on man, for 1 caiman? i had 2 specs in a room 10ft by 10ft and they are a hell of alot bigger than curvs. to create a encloser for keeping an animal and breeding it are 2 totally different things. dont get me wrong the more space the better, but in the real world it just isnt realistic. do you expect to have an encloser the size of a small pairie to house a rattler? or corn snake breeders to stop using tubs and start heating the local park. why cant people just give the advice that they have been asked for instead of critizing? granted his info was a bit schetchy but through the lad a bone


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my rattler would be pleased with that bit hectic to find at feeding time though:lol2:


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

lefty said:


> i see what you mean now. that will do for a breeding setup but come on man, for 1 caiman? i had 2 specs in a room 10ft by 10ft and they are a hell of alot bigger than curvs. to create a encloser for keeping an animal and breeding it are 2 totally different things. dont get me wrong the more space the better, but in the real world it just isnt realistic. do you expect to have an encloser the size of a small pairie to house a rattler? or corn snake breeders to stop using tubs and start heating the local park. why cant people just give the advice that they have been asked for instead of critizing? granted his info was a bit schetchy but through the lad a bone


At the end of the day, if you can only afford the bare minimum of the animals enclosure, bit pointless in having them !!

And if you kept 2 spec's in a 10 by 10 i pity them, hardly having enough room to turn around !!


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> At the end of the day, if you can only afford the bare minimum of the animals enclosure, bit pointless in having them !!
> 
> And if you kept 2 spec's in a 10 by 10 i pity them, hardly having enough room to turn around !!


did i say i couldnt afford it? no i didnt.. if u go back i said i can afford to buy a tank every week if i wished to. get a life martin and quit criticising people,,,,its people liek u who give the hobby a bad name.


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Reptiles_Rock said:


> did i say i couldnt afford it? no i didnt.. if u go back i said i can afford to buy a tank every week if i wished to. get a life martin and quit criticising people,,,,its people liek u who give the hobby a bad name.


If you say so mate, if you can afford a new enclosure every week then why not buy a bigger one to start off with.

At the end of the day me and everyone only wants whats best for the animal !

Also why make a thread about heating costs, surley it doesnt matter what they are if you can afford to shell out for a new tank every week, which cost upmost of £300 !!

Wont be me who's giving the hobby a bad name when your making news when it bites you or gets out and hurts someone else because you never had DWA in the 1st place : victory:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> At the end of the day, if you can only afford the bare minimum of the animals enclosure, bit pointless in having them !!
> 
> And if you kept 2 spec's in a 10 by 10 i pity them, hardly having enough room to turn around !!


 10 ft by 10ft for 2 spec caiman both under a 1.5metres long with a pool made from an out door pond with filters, under floor heating, 2 basking spots, real pond plants and real foilage plants, all setting me back a couple of grand and you say you pity the animals? you said that even before you knew how big they were! as i said mate if you aint gonna give advice then why post on a thread asking for it? why dont you start another thread entitled " im a genius, tell me your problem and i'll slate ya" geta life son. you must have 1 exciting life


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

lefty said:


> 10 ft by 10ft for 2 spec caiman both under a 1.5metres long with a pool made from an out door pond with filters, under floor heating, 2 basking spots, real pond plants and real foilage plants, all setting me back a couple of grand and you say you pity the animals? you said that even before you knew how big they were! as i said mate if you aint gonna give advice then why post on a thread asking for it? why dont you start another thread entitled " im a genius, tell me your problem and i'll slate ya" geta life son. you must have 1 exciting life


Ok but your the one saying that they can be kept in a 5x2x2, so why provide that enclosure when they are only that big ??

And yes i have quite the exciting life !! : victory:


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## Reptiles_Rock (Feb 17, 2008)

did he say thwey can be kept in a 5 x 2 x 2 all their lives? noooooo he didnt and neither did i. MOST people DO kep them in a 5 x 2 x 2 aquarium or tank for the first 2 - 3 years of their lives. if u had read the original posts you would have seen that. yeah good one martin.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

i didnt say for good and he wasnt planning on keeping them in it for good. you just dont get it do you? he doesnt want advice on size of encloser, but you just couldnt help yourself could you? read the original thread. why do you think its your responsibilty to tell people their doing it wrong? especially when you have no idea what hes doing in the first place? just stick to the advice that he asked for. it makes me laugh when you lot say "we ve just got the animals best interests.." how do you know the animals are in any danger? the amount of people who no longer ask for advice on here because they get this sort of rubbish thrown at them is unbeleivable. i mean all this because he asked for electric costs, unbeleivable!!


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