# New Samar Cobra Website



## JawaEyes (Sep 26, 2013)

Hello,
I have just set up a new website containing information about the Samar Cobra. This is still in progress with the home and venom pages completed. If you could visit, I would be very grateful!

Naja Samarensis Information

Please leave your feedback below! :2thumb:


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

I would be interested to know where your LD50 value of 21mg/kg is from, it seems really high. If true, it would make this species venom considerably less toxic than other cobras. Are you certain it isn't 2.1mg/kg? Also, be very careful with your advice about antivenom. There is no evidence (that I know of at least) that _N. oxiana_ antivenom is effective and no reason to think it might be. We know that Philipine cobra AV isn't particularly useful, so it seems unlikely that Russian cobra AV will be. Offering specific medical advice without evidence of efficacy is a dangerous idea.


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## JawaEyes (Sep 26, 2013)

DavidR said:


> I would be interested to know where your LD50 value of 21mg/kg is from, it seems really high. If true, it would make this species venom considerably less toxic than other cobras. Are you certain it isn't 2.1mg/kg? Also, be very careful with your advice about antivenom. There is no evidence (that I know of at least) that _N. oxiana_ antivenom is effective and no reason to think it might be. We know that Philipine cobra AV isn't particularly useful, so it seems unlikely that Russian cobra AV will be. Offering specific medical advice without evidence of efficacy is a dangerous idea.


I'm afraid you have your illiteracy to blame for this one. If you look closer at the Venom page you will notice that I actually wrote 0.21mg/kg and also that N. Oxiana anti-venom is not definitively proven to be effective against N. Samarensis envenomation, only that it is a widely held BELIEF. Read the information next time.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

Always good to play nicely :whistling2:


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

JawaEyes said:


> I'm afraid you have your illiteracy to blame for this one. If you look closer at the Venom page you will notice that I actually wrote 0.21mg/kg and also that N. Oxiana anti-venom is not definitively proven to be effective against N. Samarensis envenomation, only that it is a widely held BELIEF. Read the information next time.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I see you updated the website the correct LD50, no need to thank me for pointing out your mistake....(I am petty enough to have a screen shot of your page with the wrong LD50 on :2thumb:, I am happy to post it in this thread if you want?)
With regard to the widely held belief that _N. oxiana_ antivenom is effective, I don't care how widely held it is. It is still wrong and dangerous advice. I think you are going off one post on venomland? Can you point me in the direction of any other source that suggests oxiana AV? I don't know who you are and am not trying to be combative but you did ask for feedback!


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## JawaEyes (Sep 26, 2013)

DavidR said:


> I see you updated the website the correct LD50, no need to thank me for pointing out your mistake....(I am petty enough to have a screen shot of your page with the wrong LD50 on :2thumb:, I am happy to post it in this thread if you want?)
> With regard to the widely held belief that _N. oxiana_ antivenom is effective, I don't care how widely held it is. It is still wrong and dangerous advice. I think you are going off one post on venomland? Can you point me in the direction of any other source that suggests oxiana AV? I don't know who you are and am not trying to be combative but you did ask for feedback!


Feel free to post the screenshot if you wish, as this would point to an error on the server, as I can also post the base HTML file which shows the correct LD50. Also, with regards to the anti-venoms, as I have noted, it is not DEFINITIVELY PROVEN that this anti-venom is effective, so therefore is not DEFINITIVELY dangerous advice. And also, here is another source for oxiana AV: Can we use Philippine Cobra antivenom for Samar Cobra? - Yahoo Answers


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

JawaEyes said:


> Feel free to post the screenshot if you wish, as this would point to an error on the server, as I can also post the base HTML file which shows the correct LD50. Also, with regards to the anti-venoms, as I have noted, it is not DEFINITIVELY PROVEN that this anti-venom is effective, so therefore is not DEFINITIVELY dangerous advice. And also, here is another source for oxiana AV: Can we use Philippine Cobra antivenom for Samar Cobra? - Yahoo Answers


OK, because my literacy (numeracy?) is in question, I will post it up, maybe you should check the server isn't causing any other errors in the public facing side of your website. 









I would suggest only advising the use of antivenom that is known to work, or at least that there might be some logical reasoning behind why it may be effective. This is not the case for the Russian AV (and I don't think there is any in the UK anyway, so it is pretty useless to us). Venomous snakebite is a life threatening event. Advising the use of a product without a shred of evidence that it may be helpful is definitely dangerous.

The link you posted at the end suggests the use of a completely different antivenom (South African SAIMR) for equally illogical reasons as the Russian AV. Yahoo answers and internet forums are not the place to obtain medical advice! I am happy to point you in the direction of some useful sources if you want help? In short, there is no known effective antivenom for samar cobras. I think the use of tensilon in the case of severe envenoming has been suggested in the past.


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