# Potential danger with new Viv exotic viva



## hullreptilelover (Mar 4, 2006)

Have viv exotic re-invented the wheel and made it square?

The new viva range from viv exotic has a metal runner which holds the glass and also forms part of the ventalation system.

Major problem
The bottom metal runner has grooves cut in to the aluminium and these grooves are very very sharp (knife sharp). The groove is big enough for a lizard to get its nails/ toes stuck in. The groove is sharp enough for that toe/ nail to be severed as the lizard struggles to get free.

Other issues
The other issue is that of ventalation there are no vents in the back which could cause lack of air circulation. Especially if your reptile covers the grooves in the bottom plinth/runner with substrate.

Has anyone had any issues yet?


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm going to be ordering their new chameleon viv next week, I notice in that one there are vents in the back. I'll see what the runners are like with mine, for a chameleon it shouldn't be an issue but being sharp seems bonkers to me!


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

Have you thought of emailing the manufacturers? I'm sure this is something they'd like to know about, so they can resolve it before they start getting sued!


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Has anyone else had this problem (a different one)......

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151217632244704

The door stop in the glass being unmovable??


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> Has anyone else had this problem (a different one)......
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151217632244704
> 
> The door stop in the glass being unmovable??


Don't know about that, but I see you commented about their faulty misters, I didn't know VivExotic made misters? Are you sure you're not thinking of Exo Terra and their Monsoon?


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Viv exotic are now owned by Hagen who also own exo terra and all their customer services fall under the same umbrella


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

And yep, my air vents are the same. Extruded aluminium and the slits cut in to them have not been smoothed off.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> Viv exotic are now owned by Hagen who also own exo terra and all their customer services fall under the same umbrella


Ah OK, I had very good service from VivExotic when I had to order a replacement part, it was their fault and I received it by return of post, couldn't fault their customer service.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

You would of been dealing with aqua-pac the company that make them for Hagen, who are a fantastic company and why the hell they sold their rights for vivexotic over to Hagen god only knows.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

If anybody else has one of these vivs in there shop or home, please just run your fingers along the air slits inside the vivarium and report your findings.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> You would of been dealing with aqua-pac the company that make them for Hagen, who are a fantastic company and why the hell they sold their rights for vivexotic over to Hagen god only knows.


Yes you're right it was Aqua-Pac.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> If anybody else has one of these vivs in there shop or home, please just run your fingers along the air slits inside the vivarium and report your findings.


Sounds as though a simple deburring process has been missed at the factory that makes them, I would guess they buy these in rather than making them themselves, it would be very easy to resolve if they are made aware of it.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

You need to see one to believe it really, imagine a hollow aluminium bar that has a gap big enough to slide a mealworm into running the entire length of the vivarium directly below the glass. 

The gap (or vent as it should be known) is machined straight into the aluminium so the cut is at right angles with no smooth edges, if they debur the outside it will essentially put a blade on the internal edge and the internal edge is inaccessible.

It is right smack in line for a beardie scratching at the front glass to post its toes through and cut them off in the process of trying to get them free :gasp:

If you run your finger over it, it wont draw blood but it will scratch your skin and knowing how snakes like to explore air vents I imagine it being very easy to mash up a snakes face on this.

Im not just bitching for the sake of it and I have fed this back via the wholesalers, I would love to know if its me being picky or anybody else thinks this is not quite right?


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I think I get the picture, it certainly doesn't sound too smart! Another great example of style over function maybe?


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

close up of the problem here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151249159726346


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## petman99 (Aug 22, 2010)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> You need to see one to believe it really, imagine a hollow aluminium bar that has a gap big enough to slide a mealworm into running the entire length of the vivarium directly below the glass.
> 
> The gap (or vent as it should be known) is machined straight into the aluminium so the cut is at right angles with no smooth edges, if they debur the outside it will essentially put a blade on the internal edge and the internal edge is inaccessible.
> 
> ...


This is one time we will both be singing from same hymn book.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Ok so thanks to the power of the internet I have just had the top man at Aquapac (the makers of vivexotic) on the Phone.

Who I want to make it clear are a top company and I dont enjoy running a product down!

So problem number one for me was the glass plug, They shouldnt be that tight - taking it in and out a few times will loosen it up, so i have just sat here and yes at around 150 subsequent in and outs it became free and now performs as it should  i took it up to 350 in and outs and it still performs without falling out - but if you want extra piece of mind your going to have to get one of their locks to go in it i think. 

So problem number 2 - the biggest concern the metal vent. 

Is it supposed to be like that - yes, although the gap on mine is 2mm and the one on theirs is 1.6mm.

It has been tested by someone in a position who should be able to decide if it was safe or not, and they have tested and haven't experienced any problems.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

All I can say is its over to you now folks, go out have a look and see what you think and report back.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I see the problem now and it's more or less as I imagined, the slit looks as though it has been cut on a table saw, having cut aluminium section in this way myself I can see how it would be razor sharp on the inside, especially at the ends where it's like a knife edge. I would never let anything like that leave my workshop regardless of what use it was being put to! 

It would take seconds to run a deburring tool along that and make it safe, I can't see why they wouldn't do it even if they have tested it and found it to be safe, Sod's Law says it would only be a matter of time until until someone proved otherwise!

It would probably be better if they milled the slot instead, at least you wouldn't get the sharp bits at the ends, but I'd still deburr it anyway.


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## hullreptilelover (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Neil for putting the pictures up.

I think it demonstrates the severity of the problem really well. I think it is only a matter of time before a reptile is going to sustain an injury. 

Whoever it was that tested these either had a sample sent that was de-burred or does not know about the curious nature of reptiles.

Do you think they will re-call the vivariums or wait until they hurt someones pet :devil: and are sued? Since you have been contacted by them they are obviously aware of the issue. So if they do not act upon it they will be open for litigation.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

in fairness they probably dont see the stupid things that snakes and lizards do everyday in their efforts to self harm, so what looks safe to the maker looks like a snake face masher to me. And they probably think I am one of those over reacting dont step on cracks in the pavement types. More people need to go have a look at one of these and if they are genuinely concerned (and not just pitchforking) feed it back. 

I was asked how concerned about it I was, to which my response was concerned enough not to stock them.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Really dont like the look of this new range for the reasons already covered in this thread, and having had some hands on time with them, they dont feel as sturdy anymore, id be worried that a big, strong & heavy constrictor could force the glass out or bust the front of the viv. The sizes of the vivs are now slightly small and the price has gone up. Shame as i have 6 Vivs myself in the old range and cant really fault them. Just trying to track a VX48 now as thats the last viv i need in the longrun.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

I am updating this to keep things fair and un-biased as obviously we dont want to give viv exotic a slating if its just a faulty batch, or if myself and hullreptile are just being paranoid. 

so if you check this other thread... http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/902313-new-viv-exotic-range-3.html

We have found someone that is happy with the vents, just need more feedback from other people now.


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## Rhianna.J (Nov 5, 2011)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> We have found someone that is happy with the vents, just need more feedback from other people now.


Now now, I never said I was happy with the vents, I just said that the ones Ive encountered are no where near as bad as yours! The edges are a little "rough" but not enough to damage a reptile IMO, mine managed to wear themselves smooth with my finger when i was rubbing them, and the slightly more sharper ones, a bit of gentle buffing will sort out. 

The door stops i had the same problem with, and had to bray them out with a screwdriver, but i suspect the door stop is a temporary idea, so you get annoyed with them and buy the separate viv-lock to fit the new vivs. Very sneaky..... 

The cham viv i cannot fault, the vents in them are different. One, they have vents at the back of the viv too (this is what i feel is lacking with the new ones) and also the vents on the runners are in a series of smaller, neater cuts. 

I havnt seen the others yet, just the terrestrials and the cham so cannot comment on the others design....


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