# New Mexico Man Killed By Pack Of Dogs



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Larry Armstrong, New Mexico Man, Killed By Pack Of Dogs


hmmm... i was told here on this forum that dogs weren't pack animals...

i forget who it was that told me that... but they said that all that wolf stuff, pack leader dog stuff was wrong...

looks to me that these dogs in the link were hunting... together... and took down prey larger than themselves... worked together...

looks pack-like to me! they were hungry and worked together to hunt...

but maybe i have it wrong...

thoughts?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I will try to articulate my opinion once I've finished being transfixed by your signature!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

5-year-old dies after pack of dogs attacks - CNN


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Pack of dogs maul 7-year-old to death - US news - Life - msnbc.com


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

I think we all know how this ones gonna end...I have a list of candidates to be first to wish the mexican man in question went by the name of cesar.Place your bets....


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Maybe the people who think dogs arent pack animals only own a single dog. I have 11 dogs and yes they do have pack mentality, a breeding/show kennels I used to work at had an incident were a girl took out 5 dogs(3 of these were bitches, one castrated male and an entire male) for exercise in a private field. The 2 older bitches fell out and started fighting and the others 3 joined in with the winning bitch. Dogs are pack animals and the more you have the easier it is to see.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Berber King said:


> I think we all know how this ones gonna end...I have a list of candidates to be first to wish the mexican man in question went by the name and of cesar.Place your bets....


 
*i dont understand this, why cesar, what has he done wrong, his methords work*


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I believe Habu is talking about me. I've never said dogs aren't pack animals. I've only ever said that dogs aren't stupid enough to think we're one of their pack. Therefore pack rank theory doesnt work, as we're never in their pack.

So your article proves...hmm...nothing?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

actually we are in a dogs pack and we are the leader or they would never be in our homes. each dog must know its place in your home make you the pack leader. the same as with horses, if one goes for you then you will go for it back to put it back in its place just like what would happen in the wild, making you the head of the heard, dogs are the same


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> I believe Habu is talking about me. I've never said dogs aren't pack animals. I've only ever said that dogs aren't stupid enough to think we're one of their pack. Therefore pack rank theory doesnt work, as we're never in their pack.
> 
> So your article proves...hmm...nothing?


 
My dogs do have pack ranking with my GSD being at the top and my lurcher being at the bottom, I dont think they view me as being in their pack, more like a bossy friend:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

popcorn anyone?? ^_^


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> *i dont understand this, why cesar, what has he done wrong, his methords work*


must.........resist.........replying..........to.........this.........person..........


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok so what have i done so wrong lol.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> My dogs do have pack ranking with my GSD being at the top and my lurcher being at the bottom, I dont think they view me as being in their pack, more like a bossy friend:lol2:


Exactly, that's my point. We're not dogs, we're not in their pack. Doesn't mean you cant be in charge, just you dont need to pretend you're a dog to do so.

But no Rosanna, they're not in your pack. We're not pack animals, and we dont walk on four legs, hunt with them, sleep with them (ok some do lol), etc. Dogs are highly intelligent (yes, even the ones who pretend they're not) and dont think we're another dog.

You can still be a firm leader without pretending to be in their pack.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok so you dont understand animal phsycology and behaviour. we may not be pack animals but we teach our animals by the methrods that would be used in the wild. if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Berber King said:


> be first to wish the mexican man in question


NEW Mexico is not Mexico. We are the 47th state. 

*grumble* 

Born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I am not Mexican, despite being able to speak a little Spanish.

And for what it's worth, the dogs I have lived with all treated the humans as funny-looking pack members.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so you dont understand animal phsycology and behaviour. we may not be pack animals but we teach our animals by the methrods that would be used in the wild. if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works


I can assure you that NO a lot of us certainly do NOT teach our dogs the way you do !!! 
No I would never bite , hit kick any of my animals - just cause you bite/kick foals/dogs please do not assume all of us do that or even agree with it !!
I think its you who dont have a clue and are stuck in the past with methods thats outdated and which the majority of behaviourists/trainers/organisations of today no longer practise or believe in.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so you dont understand animal phsycology and behaviour. we may not be pack animals but we teach our animals by the methrods that would be used in the wild. if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works


 
If my dog tried to bite me it would be shook by its scruff and told off!
Ive never had one of my dogs try and challenge me, they respect me to much and are eager to please the bossy person who provides food and comfort.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so you dont understand animal phsycology and behaviour. we may not be pack animals but we teach our animals by the methrods that would be used in the wild. *if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back,* treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works


 

Do you not think this would be dangerous? If a dog tried to bite you and you retaliated in the same way your face would be very close to the dogs teeth so if it took on your challenge it would do far more harm to you than you could ever do to it.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

*KICK FOALS, no no no tap them with your foot, not fall blown kick them. this is a methrod practised by all horse racing studs.*

*i am not stuck in old ways, i simply treat the animals the way the would treat each other as it works, i am not the only one who does this, i know many other people who do this as well, mainly with dogs and horses*


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> Do you not think this would be dangerous? If a dog tried to bite you and you retaliated in the same way your face would be very close to the dogs teeth so if it took on your challenge it would do far more harm to you than you could ever do to it.


no, as i would push it to the ground first and then put my arm across its neck so that it could not bite me. i have never had to do this yet but my OH had to with his ex's GSD when he first came to them. i witnessed the event, the dog was a very nasty peice of work and after this event the dog is now the best dog you could ever meet


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Exactly, that's my point. We're not dogs, we're not in their pack. Doesn't mean you cant be in charge, just you dont need to pretend you're a dog to do so.
> 
> But no Rosanna, they're not in your pack. We're not pack animals, and we dont walk on four legs, hunt with them, sleep with them (ok some do lol), etc. Dogs are highly intelligent (yes, even the ones who pretend they're not) and dont think we're another dog.
> 
> You can still be a firm leader without pretending to be in their pack.


 
wrong...

they see us in the role of pack leader... they'll see a cat that they live with as a member of the pack...

my old dog would eat you up if you messed with the cat we had...

we are in their pack if the dogs are brought up right....

don't don't care what you look like but how you behave and interact...


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> no, as i would push it to the ground first and then put my arm across its neck so that it could not bite me. i have never had to do this yet but my OH had to with his ex's GSD when he first came to them. i witnessed the event, the dog was a very nasty peice of work and after this event the dog is now the best dog you could ever meet


 
Ive worked with GSD and owned a mixed pack of dogs for many years (at one point I had 13) and I have never used pinning or biting as a method of training and everyone who meets my dogs comments on how friendly and well behaved they are. I would never put myself in a situation were my life could be in danger. Respect from dogs is earnt never forced.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> NEW Mexico is not Mexico. We are the 47th state.
> 
> *grumble*
> 
> ...


Thanks for the geography lesson : victory: 

At least this thread went exactly as predicted anyway.....


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

If folks want to believe they're in the pack, I'm not going to stop their little dream.

But it is rubbish.:lol2:


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> ok if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Are you really that stupid to do some thing like that.:gasp:
> ...


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> If folks want to believe they're in the pack, I'm not going to stop their little dream.
> 
> But it is rubbish


I am afraid I disagree with you. My parents bred show-field-obedience Gordon Setters, and later my mum bred show-field German Shorthaired Pointers; they never had *fewer* than four dogs.

Pack behaviour towards other dogs AND towards humans we definitely saw, and do dogs challenge humans for rank in what they perceive to be their pack - whether it's all dogs or part dogs and part naked bipedal thumb-wearers? YES.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I must be the odd one out as I have never had one of my own dogs challenge me:whistling2:


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I must be the odd one out as I have never had one of my own dogs challenge me:whistling2:


Neither have i, in all the years we have had dogs.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

other people's dogs will sometimes challenge you... 

go ahead... try to take that fifi dog off that old lady's lap... that pomerainian will bite you good... and dare you to even sit on the couch... the old lady and the couch belong to the dog... in the dog's mind... you are an intruder... a fifi dog will challenge an adult...

a fifi dog will chase you... and challenge anything that comes into it's claimed world...


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so you dont understand animal phsycology and behaviour. we may not be pack animals but we teach our animals by the methrods that would be used in the wild. if my dog was to go to bite me *i would growl and bite the dog back*, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works


:gasp: I think there is more to be gained by treating animals with respect.


rosanna123 said:


> no, as i would push it to the ground first and then put my arm across its neck so that it could not bite me. i have never had to do this yet but my OH had to with his ex's GSD when he first came to them. i witnessed the event, the dog was a very nasty peice of work and after this event the dog is now the best dog you could ever meet


Poor dog!


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

have to say im a lot more physical with the farm dogs than id ever be with 95% of the horses i work with. i play fight with the dogs (well the guard dog, the rest are too small) and i am second in command in the human hierarchy so i do get minor challanges to my authority on occasion. the farm owner is head of the pack, none of them challange him, i think with dogs theres a lot to be said for natural authority.

have to say though i think actually biting a dog is mental. cant say iv ever growled at one either...


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> I believe Habu is talking about me. I've never said dogs aren't pack animals. I've only ever said that dogs aren't stupid enough to think we're one of their pack. Therefore pack rank theory doesnt work, as we're never in their pack.
> 
> So your article proves...hmm...nothing?


Hmm...you clearly don't understand how a dog's mind works do you? A dog's mind is only capable of thinking about social interactions as a pack mentality. No one said we fool our dogs into thinking we're dogs too, but that we ARE members of their packs (that's the only terms they CAN think in), they are two very different things.


LisaLQ said:


> Exactly, that's my point. We're not dogs, we're not in their pack. Doesn't mean you cant be in charge, just you dont need to pretend you're a dog to do so.
> 
> But no Rosanna, they're not in your pack. We're not pack animals, and we dont walk on four legs, hunt with them, sleep with them (ok some do lol), etc. Dogs are highly intelligent (yes, even the ones who pretend they're not) and dont think we're another dog.
> 
> You can still be a firm leader without pretending to be in their pack.


We're not dogs, but we ARE in the pack. Or else your dog/s would NOT listen and obey you.

I don't walk on four legs or hunt with them either :roll:


Shell195 said:


> If my dog tried to bite me it would be shook by its scruff and told off!
> Ive never had one of my dogs try and challenge me, they respect me to much and are eager to please the bossy person who provides food and comfort.


My dog has challenged me, and not too long ago either. He wasn't properly if at all trained as a puppy and was never taught who's his boss and to respect his owners....he's been spoilt and he's always done what he wants to do. But I am now trying to correct all that (which is hard as I don't even live with him), and I'm trying to push this dog right down to the bottom of the pack. It's very difficult, he's a staffy too and a VERY stubborn one, and VERY dominant, so I knew he would hate this training and challenge me. 

When he challenges me a simple 'telling off' won't do. This dog does NOT respond to verbal commands very often, so I have to be more physical with him and show him through my body language that I will NOT tolerate him. When he challenges me, I push his head down to pin him to the floor or I give him a smack and I don't back down. That's what you do with a dog who thinks it's above you.


Shell195 said:


> Do you not think this would be dangerous? If a dog tried to bite you and you retaliated in the same way your face would be very close to the dogs teeth so if it took on your challenge it would do far more harm to you than you could ever do to it.


I agree, putting your face right up close to the dog's face when it's like that is REALLY dangerous. I go for smacking his bum or just behind the ears or the nose. Before any of you fairies moan, I don't do it hard enough to really hurt him but to cause discomfort and let him know.


HABU said:


> wrong...
> 
> they see us in the role of pack leader... they'll see a cat that they live with as a member of the pack...
> 
> ...


:2thumb:


Shell195 said:


> I must be the odd one out as I have never had one of my own dogs challenge me:whistling2:


Try a stubborn, dominant problem dog.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I feel very sorry for your dog, and sorry for you, that your only relationship with his is built on fear.

None of my dogs ever needed smacking or pinning to teach them anything, as our relationship was built on respect and trust. I never had to resort to violence to prove a point, they knew I was boss without me having to touch them.

Poor dog. I also feel very worried that if he's around kids one day he's going to snap. And being a staffy, you know what that means....

You're not a very good staffy ambassador.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

HABU said:


> other people's dogs will sometimes challenge you...
> 
> go ahead... try to take that fifi dog off that old lady's lap... that pomerainian will bite you good... and dare you to even sit on the couch... the old lady and the couch belong to the dog... in the dog's mind... you are an intruder... a fifi dog will challenge an adult...
> 
> a fifi dog will chase you... and challenge anything that comes into it's claimed world...


The dog shouldn't be on the couch. The problem with the majority of small dog owners is that they see bad behaviour as cute. If their dog was a dane, like ours was, they wouldn't stand for it. And then their dogs are spoiled, not trained properly, and left to perform as little tyrants as amusement.

It's nothing to do with them not using pack ranking, it's to do with them using no method AT ALL.


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

Kat91 said:


> Hmm...you clearly don't understand how a dog's mind works do you? A dog's mind is only capable of thinking about social interactions as a pack mentality. No one said we fool our dogs into thinking we're dogs too, but that we ARE members of their packs (that's the only terms they CAN think in), they are two very different things.
> 
> We're not dogs, but we ARE in the pack. Or else your dog/s would NOT listen and obey you.
> 
> ...



When you say this dog challenges you, what exactly is it doing and what have you been doing at the time that triggers the behaviour?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Kat91 said:


> Hmm...you clearly don't understand how a dog's mind works do you? A dog's mind is only capable of thinking about social interactions as a pack mentality. No one said we fool our dogs into thinking we're dogs too, but that we ARE members of their packs (that's the only terms they CAN think in), they are two very different things.
> 
> We're not dogs, but we ARE in the pack. Or else your dog/s would NOT listen and obey you.
> 
> ...


 
I have 2 ex problem dogs that I took on when they were 6 months old from different owners
The first is a minature poodle who was badly socialised as a puppy with a family who allowed their kids to throw her and break her leg and put her in an oven and turn it on. Training her to my standard hasnt been easy but I have learnt her signs of aggression and have curbed it without physical force. Shes now 13 years old and epileptic but has turned out a nice dog as long as I am aware of her body language.
The 2nd is a staffy cross who was never socialised and was left home alone for up to 5 days at a time. She was a nightmare when we took her on and it has taken me many years to get her to the point of being allowed to be very hands on with her without the total hysteria and screaming that she used to do. She has gone from being very snappy and aggressive to a calm loving bitch in the 8 years we have had her.
I dont do physical punishment other than a quick scruff shake but even this can only be done to certain dogs
My rottie was a very unsocialised puppy when I got him at 15 weeks and he had spent all his time in a dog crate with his brother who bullied him.
This screaming frightened puppy is now about 3 years old and if I even raised my voice when he was younger he ran screaming and even wet himself in sheer terror. I have managed to turn him round but even now I cant raise my voice to him, he is a well adjusted dog who is a pleasure to live with and thinks everyone is his friend.

The younger the dog the easier it is to re train them and I must be doing something right as all 11 of my dogs are animals to be proud of


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

it all depends on the dog as to what works training wise and what doesnt, i do start off with voice comands, if that dont work i will then move on to a spray bottle and treats to punish and praise. but as i said it all depends on the dog. if all else fails then i will gain the dogs respect by treating it how it would be treated in the pack *BUT THIS IS ONLY A LAST RESORT. *


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Ive worked with GSD and owned a mixed pack of dogs for many years (at one point I had 13) and I have never used pinning or biting as a method of training and everyone who meets my dogs comments on how friendly and well behaved they are. I would never put myself in a situation were my life could be in danger. *Respect from dogs is earnt never forced*.


:notworthy:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> it all depends on the dog as to what works training wise and what doesnt, i do start off with voice comands, if that dont work i will then move on to a spray bottle and treats to punish and praise. But as i said it all depends on the dog. if all else fails then i will gain the dogs respect by treating it how it would be treated in the pack *but this is only a last resort. *


but dogs aren't wolves!!!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

no but they still act the same and treat each other the same as wolves do, they aint that diffrent really


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> no but they still act the same and treat each other the same as wolves do, they aint that diffrent really


 
:gasp: Your dogs howl together :whistling2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

my dog doesnt know how to many noise lol he will yap in his sleep but thats it lol, but i do know dogs that howl, most dogs howl. a dog is part of the wolf family, the only real diffrence is that dogs have been demesticated. if you were to set a dog free shall we say, it would turn semi-feral, after say 2 generations the pups would be totally feral and act wolf like in the form of being afraid of humans, hunting ect.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> no but they still act the same and treat each other the same as wolves do, they aint that diffrent really


Should I treat my cats as if they were lions?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> my dog doesnt know how to many noise lol he will yap in his sleep but thats it lol, but i do know dogs that howl, *most dogs howl*. a dog is part of the wolf family, the only real diffrence is that dogs have been demesticated. if you were to set a dog free shall we say, it would turn semi-feral, after say 2 generations the pups would be totally feral and act wolf like in the form of being afraid of humans, hunting ect.


Really???


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

yes most dogs do howl. i cant really answer a question about cats as i do not know much about cats


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> yes most dogs do howl. i cant really answer a question about cats as i do not know much about cats


and the rest it seems!

I can't say I've heard many dogs howling in the 8+ years I have worked around animals.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

just because you havent heard them doesnt mean that they dont howl. most of the dogs i know howl, mainly when their owners have gone out and they have been left at home 
YouTube - dogs howling


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> . if my dog was to go to bite me i would growl and bite the dog back, treat the animal how it would be treated but another member of its species. try it, it works





rosanna123 said:


> it all depends on the dog as to what works training wise and what doesnt, i do start off with voice comands, if that dont work i will then move on to a spray bottle and treats to punish and praise. but as i said it all depends on the dog. if all else fails then i will gain the dogs respect by treating it how it would be treated in the pack *BUT THIS IS ONLY A LAST RESORT. *



You contradict yourself, you say one thing then try to change it to suit. 
No one in their right mind would go round biting animals, would you bite your mice when you get them, if they bit you, no i think not.

I'm sorry but to be honest i don't think you really know anything, do you.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> it all depends on the dog as to what works training wise and what doesnt, i do start off with voice comands, if that dont work i will then move on to a spray bottle and treats to punish and praise. but as i said it all depends on the dog. if all else fails then i will gain the dogs respect by treating it how it would be treated in the pack *BUT THIS IS ONLY A LAST RESORT. *


This. I'll give an example:

Dog does something naughty. Dog gets a verbal telling off "NO!" "Get out!" "sit,down!", dog does as told, no further action. 

dogs feeling stubborn and does NOT respond, instead barks back at me and doesn't do as told: smack on the bum/neck, or pinned down, or forced out of the room and not allowed back in until much later.

Not all dogs are the same and respond to simple 'no's' seriously I'd love for any of you to take on my dog and see him challenge you and see if you can deal with that and make him respect you with simple words.


samurai said:


> When you say this dog challenges you, what exactly is it doing and what have you been doing at the time that triggers the behaviour?


As I explained above, he challenges me sometimes when he gets told off for doing something naughty. I tell him off verbally and he retaliates by barking at me and sometimes snapping! He doesn't like being told off as he's always got away with what he wants.


Zoo-Man said:


> Should I treat my cats as if they were lions?


**facepalm**


martyb said:


> You contradict yourself, you say one thing then try to change it to suit.
> No one in their right mind would go round biting animals, would you bite your mice when you get them, if they bit you, no i think not.
> 
> I'm sorry but to be honest i don't think you really know anything, do you.


Hmmm....I also have ferrets. Most of them were biters when we first got them. Bad biters that could make you cry. And you know what worked? Scruffing them and biting, or scruffing alone. Why? because this is what mum would do in the wild. None of them bite anymore and are the sweetest, happiest little ferrets.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I wonder how long it'll be til we have a thread about some posters dogs turning on THEM.

If anyone laid a hand on one of my dogs (if I had them any more), I'll alpha roll them and "tap" them with my hobnails.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Kat91 said:


> This. I'll give an example:
> 
> Dog does something naughty. Dog gets a verbal telling off "NO!" "Get out!" "sit,down!", dog does as told, no further action.
> 
> ...


 
thank you so much for understanding what i am saying, so many people on here do not seem to understand animal phsychology and yet they have had animals for years. i have been around horses all my life and dogs since i was 2 (so 20 yrs now), and other animals on an off in that time. i have helped out on farms and at horse studs. so i do know what i am talking about, i even have people in my town and freinds of friends asking me to help them with their dogs and horses. and soon i will be doing some works at an animal behaviour center and at a wildlife rescue center to expand my knowlegde even more


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> I wonder how long it'll be til we have a thread about some posters dogs turning on THEM.
> 
> If anyone laid a hand on one of my dogs (if I had them any more), I'll alpha roll them and "tap" them with my hobnails.


My dog won't turn on me, because I'm not BEATING my dog. I simply smack him when he doesn't listen to cause him discomfort and get his attention, it doesn't hurt him much.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

beating doesnt work, this is why my dog was soooooo nerverse when i first got him his last owner would beat him for no reason. i have never had to lay a hand on my boy as he is so egar to please me, he is fine now but still a little nerverse when a new bloke goes near him. as i said before it all depends on the dog its self, if you was to get a really evil dog and nothing else has worked then treating it the same as it would be in the pack my be the only way to gain its respect


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> thank you so much for understanding what i am saying, so many people on here do not seem to understand animal phsychology and yet they have had animals for years. i have been around horses all my life and dogs since i was 2 (so 20 yrs now), and other animals on an off in that time. i have helped out on farms and at horse studs. so i do know what i am talking about, i even have people in my town and freinds of friends asking me to help them with their dogs and horses. and soon i will be doing some works at an animal behaviour center and at a wildlife rescue center to expand my knowlegde even more


Well with all them years experience you must be right:whistling2:

I also have been around horses and dogs and other animals all my life which is a sight longer than you and i would never treat them like you suggest.

I think you really do need to read up and talk to someone who actually knows what they are on about on how to look after animals properly.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i do know how to look after animals properly. if you were in a stable with a horse and it decides to kick and bite you and shouting at it dosent work what would you do


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Kat91 said:


> This. I'll give an example:
> 
> Dog does something naughty. Dog gets a verbal telling off "NO!" "Get out!" "sit,down!", dog does as told, no further action.
> 
> ...


You know what - we take in seriously aggressive ferrets , some who have come in with destruction orders as they have put their previous owners in hospital - I have never once scruffed or bitten or hurt them.
All of them are now totally tame , face safe and would not bite anyone. 
So you do not need to hurt animal to make them tame , yes hurting them might have quicker results as its done thru hurt and fear but not something I would ever advocate and we also would never rehome to anyone who we knew used scruffing or similar.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive always had a lot of dogs and in my 51 years have owned 20 dogs(I still have 11 of them, the others have now passed) and have never had to resort to violence to achieve a well adjusted dog. The most I do is grab a handful of scruff and use a loud verbal NO. Not all my dogs have been small fluffy lap dogs as they included 2 Rotties and 5 GSD. The show and breeding kennels I worked at was purely for GSD and not all of them were easy dogs but each and every one of these dogs have responded to my methods so I must be doing something right.
I will continue to use my own way of training, safe in the knowledge that any dogs I own will be happy, confidant and willing to please.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i do know how to look after animals properly. if you were in a stable with a horse and it decides to kick and bite you and shouting at it dosent work what would you do


Well i certainly wouldn't kick or bite it back, like i said learn before you preach such utter rubbish.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i do know how to look after animals properly. if you were in a stable with a horse and it decides to kick and bite you and shouting at it dosent work what would you do


 
I do think you are dicing with death challenging an already angry animal. It doesnt matter if this is what animals do to each other, a human will never have the power or size to match something like a horse or large powerful dog. Some may respond but one day you will find one that wont, I wouldnt want to be in that situation.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i do know how to look after animals properly. if you were in a stable with a horse and it decides to kick and bite you and shouting at it dosent work what would you do


that viewpoint really annoys me, mainly because i spend my life undoing the damage it does horses. yes if you have a willfull horse, you do need to be firm, but in my experience horses will not lash out unless frightened, they will threaten to, squeal and generally make a racket but iv never had a confident horse lash out. iv been nipped many times (and a GENTLE tap on the nose does stop this) but iv only been severly bitten once, and that was my fault. you get physical with a nervous horse it makes it worse, if its already convinced you want to hurt it, how does proving it right help anything?

im aware you most likely mean your words to be applied to confident horses or stallions (as you say you have worked at a stud) but im sick of mopping up the aftermath of people who believe if a horse dosent do what you say, beat some respect into it. in about half an hour il be off to try and get a headcoller on a welsh pony whos been whacked on the nose so many times he wont let anyone near his head. sorry if it seems im having a go, but it gets to me sometimes.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

you should NEVER slap a horse around the head as this makes them head shy ut the odd slap on the neck can make them listen. although i would ALWAYS start with the softly softly approch with a neverse horse. yes a very confident horse may need a firm hand, a slap on the neck or bum does not do any harm to a horse, a beating does, 9 times out of 10 a beating is not called for.


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## McQuillanX2 (Oct 29, 2009)

Me and my 4 dogs are a pack , once there was an old woman walking by so the dominant male got her first then we all ate her up - Delish :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## snowdrop (Feb 5, 2011)

McQuillanX2 said:


> Me and my 4 dogs are a pack , once there was an old woman walking by so the dominant male got her first then we all ate her up - Delish :Na_Na_Na_Na:


 :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

McQuillanX2 said:


> Me and my 4 dogs are a pack , once there was an old woman walking by so the dominant male got her first then we all ate her up - Delish :Na_Na_Na_Na:


 

You arent listening, you should be the dominant male so you should have caught the old woman, eaten your fill and then left the remains for the rest of your pack:whistling2: Some people:lol2:


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> you should NEVER slap a horse around the head as this makes them head shy ut the odd slap on the neck can make them listen. although i would ALWAYS start with the softly softly approch with a neverse horse. yes a very confident horse may need a firm hand, a slap on the neck or bum does not do any harm to a horse, a beating does, 9 times out of 10 a beating is not called for.


a beating is never called for. if it gets to the point where your seriously considering beating the :censor: out of a horse because it wont do what its told, you need to not have it. sell it to, or give it to, someone who can handle it. its an animal in your care, not a punch bag.

i always start with the softly softly approach with any horse, regardless of background. with horses you dont get a second chance at a first impression, even if i have to be firm with them later, there first interaction with me is always me being nice to them, offering them a scratch or a carrot. they try to nip me, they get a tap and a firm NO. they wander over to eat the carrot, be patted, all is well. there cowering in the corner, food gets left on the floor where they can find it, talk to them in a quiet gentle voice and leave them alone. as a technique, it may not be the quickest but it hasnt failed me yet.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i totally agree with your way but if a horse is trying to beat the crap out of you and know 1 can hadle it as it is so nasty what should you do HAVE IT SHOT, no thank you if it is a case of the horse beats crap out of me or i beat crap out of it until i can get out of the stable i think i will go for the second opion, it has always worked, you cant let a horse walk all over you as things will just get worse and worse, you need to teach a horse who is boss, beating should only be used if you have no choice, like i said above otherwise you will just end you dead


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i totally agree with your way but if a horse is trying to beat the crap out of you and know 1 can hadle it as it is so nasty what should you do HAVE IT SHOT, no thank you if it is a case of the horse beats crap out of me or i beat crap out of it until i can get out of the stable i think i will go for the second opion, it has always worked, you cant let a horse walk all over you as things will just get worse and worse, you need to teach a horse who is boss, beating should only be used if you have no choice, like i said above otherwise you will just end you dead


 
Im actually gobsmacked by this statement:gasp: With an attitude like that its no wonder equine rescues are full to the brim with nervous, aggressive horses:bash: God help your dogs!!


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> and the rest it seems!
> 
> I can't say I've heard many dogs howling in the 8+ years I have worked around animals.


I work in a kennels and from time to time a whole block can be howling together, even the dog aggresive ones joining in, its a lovely sound (they stop as soon as someone appears though). Is that strange?, i didn't think so.


Anyone who who follows the dominance approach please watch this video and subscribe to the rest so you can learn how to build a good relationship with your animals. So so many dogs get scrued up and pts because of your out dated so called training techniques so its about time things got changed :2thumb:
YouTube - tab289's Channel


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

excuse me, have you read any of what i have said. if you feel sorry for my horses then please go and see the thread that i have just made in the pics and please tell me if my horses are NOT happy


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

if a point truely comes where noone can handle a horse, by noone i mean noone, not just its owner or people on the owners yard, then the owner needs to take a long hard look at the horses quality of life. a have a freind who specialises in taking on 'unhadleable' horses, hes never once had to resport to beating respect into them, becuase if you have to beat it then its not respect, its fear. and a scared animal will eventually snap and your back to square one.

if your in a stable with a horse that wants you dead, you obviously have to get out by any means possible, but thats self preservation not a training method. the nack is not to let yourself get into that situation, however that can be easier said than done. its happened to me once, once was enough.


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## McQuillanX2 (Oct 29, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> You arent listening, you should be the dominant male so you should have caught the old woman, eaten your fill and then left the remains for the rest of your pack:whistling2: Some people:lol2:


but .... hes too mean , do you have a number for '' the dog whisperer'' ?:lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i do agree with you, many horses can be sorted out with out being beaten, my only piont is if that is what you have to do to get the horse away from you so that you can get out of the stable when the horse is trying to kill you then that is what must be done. i have seen some horible things done to horses and i have heard of some horrible things done to horses, i do not condone any of them but a slap may be needed now and then and beating is only needed if you have NO CHOICE to save your own life. personally the couple of times it has happened to me, being stuck at the back of the stable with a horse in a foul mood cos it wants to go out or what ever i have had to hit it a few times (on the neck ect) to get it away from me so that i can get out of the stable, i will then walk away for 10 mins so that me and the horse have time to get over what has just happened, i will then go back make a fuss of it and do what needs doing


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> i totally agree with your way but if a horse is trying to beat the crap out of you and know 1 can hadle it as it is so nasty what should you do HAVE IT SHOT, no thank you if it is a case of the horse beats crap out of me or i beat crap out of it until i can get out of the stable i think i will go for the second opion, it has always worked, you cant let a horse walk all over you as things will just get worse and worse, you need to teach a horse who is boss, beating should only be used if you have no choice, like i said above otherwise you will just end you dead


You are serious unreal and simply dont have a clue about anything to do with animals and you have shown that time and time on here.
I hope to god that the places you plan to volunteer at have members on here who warn them about the way you treat animals.
Im so shocked by most of your posts on here ( and pics dont show if an animal is happy to not on the inside to be honest ) 
If you say any of this kind of stuff to the wildlife place and behavioural place you plan to volunteer at you will be out on your ass faster then you can count to 3


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

what have i done so wrong, you have never met me or seen my animals, you have only read the posts that you want to read and not the hole story, please get to know ME better before making a jugdment


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Im only reading what you are writing


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i totally agree with your way but if a horse is trying to beat the crap out of you and know 1 can hadle it as it is so nasty what should you do HAVE IT SHOT, no thank you if it is a case of the horse beats crap out of me or i beat crap out of it until i can get out of the stable i think i will go for the second opion, it has always worked, you cant let a horse walk all over you as things will just get worse and worse, you need to teach a horse who is boss, beating should only be used if you have no choice, like i said above otherwise you will just end you dead



You haven't got a clue have you, you shouldn't be allowed near any animals let alone keep them.:bash:

I feel for your animals i really do.:devil:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

well it does not seem that way, you say i have no clue about animals, well in way way you are right but horses and dogs i do know about, i have learnt off many people over the years on how to care for these animals and how to treat them right. none of my animals are unhappy and all are healthy.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

once again someone else who nows nothing about me. maybe you just dont understand what i am saying or maybe you are just one of them people who belevies their way is the only way. i do understand that you may not understand what i mean by beat the horse, i mean slap enough so that the horse moves away from you so that you can leave the stable, not kick and punch it until it is soooo scared of you you cant get near it again


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> well it does not seem that way, you say i have no clue about animals, well in way way you are right but horses and dogs i do know about, i have learnt off many people over the years on how to care for these animals and how to treat them right. none of my animals are unhappy and all are healthy.[/QUOTE
> 
> I am sorry if you think thats the correct way to treat them, like i have already said you shouldn't be allowed to own or be near them.
> 
> You have no idea.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> once again someone else who nows nothing about me. maybe you just dont understand what i am saying or maybe you are just one of them people who belevies their way is the only way. i do understand that you may not understand what i mean by beat the horse, i mean slap enough so that the horse moves away from you so that you can leave the stable, not kick and punch it until it is soooo scared of you you cant get near it again


No not one of those people who believes my way is the only way, i just know how to treat them correctly and not by being cruel.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok so i shouldnt do what i can for an animal, i shouldnt try every thing i can to train the animal, using my voice i shouldnt do that, i shouldnt praise an animal for being good and i should listen to monty roberts when it comes to horses as he is wrong to. how am i cruel to animals. so everything i have just said in this post in cruel is it ok, im sorry i really should stay away from animals cos even if i treat them how you do i am still being cruel. i am so sorry i never knew that caring for an animal was wrong


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i do agree with you, many horses can be sorted out with out being beaten, my only piont is if that is what you have to do to get the horse away from you so that you can get out of the stable when the horse is trying to kill you then that is what must be done. i have seen some horible things done to horses and i have heard of some horrible things done to horses, i do not condone any of them but a slap may be needed now and then and beating is only needed if you have NO CHOICE to save your own life. personally the couple of times it has happened to me, being stuck at the back of the stable with a horse in a foul mood cos it wants to go out or what ever i have had to hit it a few times (on the neck ect) to get it away from me so that i can get out of the stable, i will then walk away for 10 mins so that me and the horse have time to get over what has just happened, i will then go back make a fuss of it and do what needs doing


that is self defence, not a training method. with a prey animal especially, fear dosent work. in a do or be severly injured situation, then yes you have to get out by any means. but please understand that you cannot express beating a horse as any part of a training method, to do so is validating the very 'training' methods you say your against. they use 'you have to show it whose boss' as an excuse for what is infact animal cruelty. gently chastise if needed, but if you rely on fear to control an animal, you arnt training it, your abusing it. there is a huge difference between a gentle tap on the neck and beating a horse with a stick.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i never said it was a training methord, i said if it has to be done then it has to be done, training is totally diffrent fear should never be used in training. your horse/dog should be happy for you to train it.

so finally someone understand what i am saying


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

IF it has to be done then it has to be done in extream situations, and it has to be acepted that it is not the horses fault. you got yourself into a situation with a dangerous horse, a horse that was known to be dangerous. my problem with your logic is that once you have made a horse fear you, you cant go back. if you have to use fear to get the horse away from you, it will remember. for the rest of your time with the horse it will remember that you scared it into submission. not a promising start in my opinion. you may get respect but you also get fear.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Same old same old!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

oh god just whn i think you are understanding what i am saying you come out with something totally diffrent to what i am on about


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> thank you so much for understanding what i am saying, so many people on here do not seem to understand animal phsychology and yet they have had animals for years. i have been around horses all my life and dogs since i was 2 (so 20 yrs now), and other animals on an off in that time. i have helped out on farms and at horse studs. so i do know what i am talking about, i even have people in my town and freinds of friends asking me to help them with their dogs and horses. and soon* i will be doing some works at an animal behaviour center and at a wildlife rescue center* to expand my knowlegde even more


Scary! If the behaviour centre is worth its salt, it'll be giving you the boot when you start spouting about using dominance/physical/negative methods.

And what will you do if a fox bites you at the wildlife centre? Bite it back?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> beating doesnt work, this is why my dog was soooooo nerverse when i first got him his last owner would beat him for no reason. i have never had to lay a hand on my boy as he is so egar to please me, he is fine now but still a little nerverse when a new bloke goes near him. as i said before it all depends on the dog its self, *if you was to get a really evil dog* and nothing else has worked then treating it the same as it would be in the pack my be the only way to gain its respect


No animal is evil, apart from the human animal! Thats pretty basic knowledge right there!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> you should NEVER slap a horse around the head as this makes them head shy ut the odd slap on the neck can make them listen. although i would ALWAYS start with the softly softly approch with a neverse horse. yes a very confident horse may need a firm hand, a slap on the neck or bum does not do any harm to a horse, a beating does, *9 times out of 10 a beating is not called for*.


Wow, that says a lot!!! :gasp: :devil:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> i totally agree with your way but if a horse is trying to beat the crap out of you and know 1 can hadle it as it is so nasty what should you do HAVE IT SHOT, no thank you if it is a case of the horse beats crap out of me or i beat crap out of it until i can get out of the stable i think i will go for the second opion, it has always worked, you cant let a horse walk all over you as things will just get worse and worse, you need to teach a horse who is boss, beating should only be used if you have no choice, like i said above otherwise you will just end you dead


Jesus your really talking crap now!!! You've openly admitted to animal abuse!!! Im sure the animal behaviour centre you are going to get work experience with will love your attitude towards animals! :bash: :devil: :bash:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

McQuillanX2 said:


> but .... hes too mean , do you have a number for '' the dog whisperer'' ?:lol2:


Yes, 666 :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I hear Bobby Roberts is advertising for a new elephant beater, erm I mean trainer. You should apply Rosanna!


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so i shouldnt do what i can for an animal, i shouldnt try every thing i can to train the animal, using my voice i shouldnt do that, i shouldnt praise an animal for being good and i should listen to monty roberts when it comes to horses as he is wrong to. how am i cruel to animals. so everything i have just said in this post in cruel is it ok, im sorry i really should stay away from animals cos even if i treat them how you do i am still being cruel. i am so sorry i never knew that caring for an animal was wrong


Now you are just being silly and acting like a child. :whistling2:

You seem to try and twist things in all your posts when you dont like hearing the truth.

Just treat your animals, well any animals without abuse and you will get on just fine.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> I hear Bobby Roberts is advertising for a new elephant beater, erm I mean trainer. You should apply Rosanna!


:lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i do not abuse my animals, i treat them with respect and they treat me with respect. you lot are making me out to be a moster and im not, i understand animals. i have never used fear, i hate seeing a scared animal. no that this will make any diffrence to you. ok my wording may be wrong and so you DONT understand what i am saying.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You just openly admitted to beating your animals, I think your version of abuse may be different to the rest of the entire world's.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

To be fair Rosanna, people are only going by what they read... They don't know you, perhaps you are not good at wording things how you mean them.

You do say that 9 times out of 10 a beating is not neccassary... Unfortunately that means 10% of the tme it IS! which is a massive amount! I'm sure you just pulled numbers from thin air wthout eally thinking, but perhaps next time think about what you are saying.

And we are talking about dogs here, not horses, you always bring them into it. Horses are nothing like dogs they don't hunt in a pack for a start which is what ths thread was about. 

Also one minute you say that it is a training method, next you agree that it's not, then you go on the deffensive that it is... You sound in a puzzle, by your own statements.

And my own opinion is that it is true that they are pack animals but people do put way too much emphasis on the 'alpha' when even in a wolf pack the alpha is NOT rivaled all the time, the only time he gets rivaled is when he fails as a leader, food is not provided and he's weak and cannot reproduce. Then a younger and healthier male will take over as alpha male.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i will slap an animal IF i have no other choice, if a dog is biting me im not going to stand there and let it happen, i will fight it off (fight maybe to stronger word to discribe what i mean), if a horse is kicking crap out of me in a stable i will scream and slap it until it moves away so that i have time to get out of the stable. how is that abuse


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## McQuillanX2 (Oct 29, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Yes, 666 :lol2:


 oh thanks soooo much he will sort everything out : victory:



Zoo-Man said:


> I hear Bobby Roberts is advertising for a new elephant beater, erm I mean trainer. You should apply Rosanna!


:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok so i got mixed up by trying to defend myself from all this bullying that i am getting (that i ALWAYS get whenever i post on this forum), as i belive i have said before a BEATING meant not as said maybe needed witha horse 9 times out of 10 as horses are more likely to go mental in a stable and want to kick the crap out of you. im am sorry if i bring horses in to every thread i post in, i dont think that i do but i can use them as good examples. beating is not a training meathord it is simply needed if you have no other chioce and you may die if you dont that is all i ment. but i cant belive you lot think that i abuse my animals, someone last night said that you can not see if a animal is happy just by pictures, well if i abused my animals would the be willing to walk up to me when i am holding a camera, my horses doing this with there ears pricked, would my dog lay on the bed and have cuddles with us if i was beating him, i know the answer is NO. my dog way badly beaten for no reason before i got him. i have never raised a had to him, i have used many methords with him but i have found if he does anything wrong like go down the bin when we are out, i will come in show him what he has done tell him off by voice and the ignore him, he hates it as he feels like he has been pushed out og the pack, and he is soooooo happy when we invite him back into the 'pack'


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

rosanna123 you say one thing then another choose a version of the story and stick to it eh! I personally would not trust you with an empty birdcage. I am one of those people who like to treat my pets (and any other animals I deal with) with respect.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> ok so i got mixed up by trying to defend myself from all this bullying that i am getting (that i ALWAYS get whenever i post on this forum), as i belive i have said before a BEATING meant not as said maybe needed witha horse 9 times out of 10 as horses are more likely to go mental in a stable and want to kick the crap out of you. im am sorry if i bring horses in to every thread i post in, i dont think that i do but i can use them as good examples. beating is not a training meathord it is simply needed if you have no other chioce and you may die if you dont that is all i ment. but i cant belive you lot think that i abuse my animals, someone last night said that you can not see if a animal is happy just by pictures, well if i abused my animals would the be willing to walk up to me when i am holding a camera, my horses doing this with there ears pricked, would my dog lay on the bed and have cuddles with us if i was beating him, i know the answer is NO. my dog way badly beaten for no reason before i got him. i have never raised a had to him, i have used many methords with him but i have found if he does anything wrong like go down the bin when we are out, i will come in show him what he has done tell him off by voice and the ignore him, he hates it as he feels like he has been pushed out og the pack, and he is soooooo happy when we invite him back into the 'pack'


Again you are so so wrong.
He has no idea what he is being told off for. 
He feel like he has been pushed out the "pack" cause he know your voice has changed ( and i dont believe the pack stuff either )
If you tell a dog off you need to do it when you catch them , there is no point doing it after it has happened as they simply wont associate a bin they raided several hrs before with you being upset.
Its like the old rubbish with pushing a dogs face in it if they have messed indoors - utter crap ( literally lol )
They just see you coming home and are angry with them and thats why he feel upset and pushed out. 
Simple solution would be for you to not put the dog in a situation where it will happen.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Shadowz said:


> Again you are so so wrong.
> He has no idea what he is being told off for.
> He feel like he has been pushed out the "pack" cause he know your voice has changed ( and i dont believe the pack stuff either )
> If you tell a dog off you need to do with when you catch them , there is no point doing it after it has happened as they simply wont associate a bin they raided several hrs before with you being upset.
> ...


Exactly right:2thumb:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> I hear Bobby Roberts is advertising for a new elephant beater, erm I mean trainer. You should apply Rosanna!


but then he'd have to advertise for a new clown.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

news flash:

"dog thread results in numerous cat fights"....


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

HABU said:


> news flash:
> 
> "dog thread results in numerous cat fights"....


What else do you expect in this section? :lol2:

'ooo look, they poked their dog with their pinky finger....we must alert the RSPCA and make immature little snide comments while we wait!!' 

Let's all go hug trees and prance around rainbows and talk to the animals and ask them how their day went and go talk to our 20 or so cats :flrt:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Watch Skinless Chicken via South Park Studios Online


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

In the meantime, here are some pics of me abusing my poor, defenceless animals....take it as evidence to take to the RSPCA :whistling2:





































look at the terrified dog 




























don't forget my mistreated ferrets:
































































such a hard life...



















even the parrot shakes in his boots


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Shadowz said:


> Again you are so so wrong.
> He has no idea what he is being told off for.
> He feel like he has been pushed out the "pack" cause he know your voice has changed ( and i dont believe the pack stuff either )
> If you tell a dog off you need to do it when you catch them , there is no point doing it after it has happened as they simply wont associate a bin they raided several hrs before with you being upset.
> ...


my dog used to chew everything, just telling him off didnt work, where as the methord i now use works, he has never chewed since i started using this methord, if he goes through the bin it is only once in a blue moon now.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Kat91 said:


> In the meantime, here are some pics of me abusing my poor, defenceless animals....take it as evidence to take to the RSPCA :whistling2:
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 
i love you!

you're dude loves you too!!!

:2thumb::2thumb:


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Kat91 said:


> What else do you expect in this section? :lol2:
> 
> 'ooo look, they poked their dog with their pinky finger....we must alert the RSPCA and make immature little snide comments while we wait!!'
> 
> Let's all go hug trees and prance around rainbows and talk to the animals and ask them how their day went and go talk to our 20 or so cats :flrt:


:no1:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

We're not talking about poking with pinky fingers though are we? We're talking about (in their own words) "beating" an animal.

If you think that's ok, no amount of sickly pictures is going to tell me you're a good owner. Because I feel very sorry for your pets, and yourself if that's the only relationship you can have with them, you cannot be the "alpha" you claim to be.

Alphas dont need to assert their dominance. Only cowards and ignorant twits.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> We're not talking about poking with pinky fingers though are we? We're talking about (in their own words) "beating" an animal.
> 
> If you think that's ok, no amount of sickly pictures is going to tell me you're a good owner. Because I feel very sorry for your pets, and yourself if that's the only relationship you can have with them, you cannot be the "alpha" you claim to be.
> 
> Alphas dont need to assert their dominance. Only cowards and ignorant twits.


 
:no1:


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

The only ignorant around here my friend, is you. All my animals are 100% happy and in the best of health conditions. Properly cared for and very much loved, but not put in crytal boxes and untouched like a fragile artifact.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You cannot punch and slap your animal and then say you are a good owner and your animals are happy. Mutually exclusive.

No amount of petty insults are going to change that fact, if you dont feel shame, then you should.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Alphas dont need to assert their dominance. Only cowards and ignorant twits.


I assume this comment refers to the fairies at the bottom of the garden? Because it is so hilariously incorrect in so many ways. :lol2:

This thread is full of so much over-emotional twaddle its unreal. There is a phenomenal difference between correctly applied discipline and beating an animal. To confuse the 2 is pure ignorance.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

if you had read all of this posts that i have posted then you would have seen my defonition of 'beating'. if it was my pics you were talking about then can you please tell me how they are sickly. i do not punch my horses or dogs but i will slap if needed and only if needed


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

SexyBear77 said:


> I assume this comment refers to the fairies at the bottom of the garden? Because it is so hilariously incorrect in so many ways. :lol2:
> 
> This thread is full of so much over-emotional twaddle its unreal. There is a phenomenal difference between correctly applied discipline and beating an animal. To confuse the 2 is pure ignorance.


When the word "beat" is actually used, how can that be confused?

Discipline is necessary sometimes, but we're not talking physical. You dont need to hit, slap, poke, prod, zap, kick, tap or "beat" your pet to train it, and if you do - it's the sign of poor leadership.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

For reference, when I said "sickly", I meant saccharin sweet over-cuddly pictures in order to prove their love for their animals, not poorly pets.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Discipline is necessary sometimes, but we're not talking physical. You dont need to hit, slap, poke, prod, zap, kick, tap or "beat" your pet to train it, and if you do - it's the sign of poor leadership.


Of course. :lol2:

Edit- Look at this cruel woman prodding her horse! :O My god, it looks distraught!!!
YouTube - Parelli 7 Games: The Porcupine Game


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

what ever, you must have never worked with horses other than in a riding school where they are so laid back they be dead if they were any more laid back. some animals do only listen by a slap (some animals meaning horses and dogs), you dont have to do it hard, it can just be a tap, just to make them listen, some animals do turn a deaf ear


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> You cannot punch and slap your animal and then say you are a good owner and your animals are happy. Mutually exclusive.
> 
> No amount of petty insults are going to change that fact, if you dont feel shame, then you should.


:2thumb:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> Ive always had a lot of dogs and in my 51 years have owned 20 dogs(I still have 11 of them, the others have now passed) and have never had to resort to violence to achieve a well adjusted dog. The most I do is grab a handful of scruff and use a loud verbal NO. Not all my dogs have been small fluffy lap dogs as they included 2 Rotties and 5 GSD. The show and breeding kennels I worked at was purely for GSD and not all of them were easy dogs but each and every one of these dogs have responded to my methods so I must be doing something right.
> I will continue to use my own way of training, safe in the knowledge that any dogs I own will be happy, confidant and willing to please.


:notworthy::no1::notworthy:

I can't recall back who said they would love to see someone else handle their challenging dog. The belief that because others don't have a dog that challenges them that they couldn't handle one without hitting it isn't correct, in many cases the truth is they may well have had the same behaviour you have from a dog and they did handle it, they just did it better than you and the behaviour stopped!

To those showing pictures of happy dogs that they hit, that says nothing but to testify to the outstanding nature of a dog and their ability to forgive that you should envy, IMO even more reason to not betray the unconditional love they hold for you.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> You cannot punch and slap your animal and then say you are a good owner and your animals are happy. Mutually exclusive.
> 
> No amount of petty insults are going to change that fact, if you dont feel shame, then you should.


Punch?!!? oh my, you do get ahead of yourself. I don't 'slap' them either, Jesus christ you'll say I'm breaking their limbs next! 

Why would I feel shame when I've done nothing wrong? I don't _hurt_ my dog, trust me it'd take a LOT to hurt this mutt. It's merely all he responds to (most of the time). I'm trying to correct his erroneous behaviours and it's not easy to do on a 5 year old stubborn, dominant male dog.


SexyBear77 said:


> I assume this comment refers to the fairies at the bottom of the garden? Because it is so hilariously incorrect in so many ways. :lol2:
> 
> This thread is full of so much over-emotional twaddle its unreal. There is a phenomenal difference between correctly applied discipline and beating an animal. To confuse the 2 is pure ignorance.


Thank you! at last someone who speaks sense and can put it in words better than I can. :notworthy:

I think these people would cry if I crumpled a bloody cupcake :roll::lol2:


SexyBear77 said:


> Of course. :lol2:
> 
> Edit- Look at this cruel woman prodding her horse! :O My god, it looks distraught!!!
> YouTube - Parelli 7 Games: The Porcupine Game


:lol2:


Kare said:


> :notworthy::no1::notworthy:
> 
> I can't recall back who said they would love to see someone else handle their challenging dog. The belief that because others don't have a dog that challenges them that they couldn't handle one without hitting it isn't correct, in many cases the truth is they may well have had the same behaviour you have from a dog and they did handle it, they just did it better than you and the behaviour stopped!
> 
> To those showing pictures of happy dogs that they hit, that says nothing but to testify to the outstanding nature of a dog and their ability to forgive that you should envy, IMO even more reason to not betray the unconditional love they hold for you.


That would be me  well....I never implied that other dogs who challenge you cannot be reformed without hitting them at all....I am ONLY speaking from my personal experience with MY own dog. Who I have owned for 5 years and know like the back of my hand. I haven't hit him in the past, only now that I've started to re-train him. Trust me, I have tried just about everything with this dog, he does not respond to voice commands or anything.

....you have never actually seen me and my dog in real life. Anyone will tell you that this dog loves me, and I love him to bits, well he loves everyone really :lol2: typical staffy. He is learning fast, I've only started the re-training about a week or two ago and I don't even have to "hit" him to remind him that often anymore, unless he's having a particularly stubborn day. He's learning to just listen to me instead of ignoring me in which case I give him a 'reminder' or tell him to get out.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

Kat91 said:


> Thank you! at last someone who speaks sense and can put it in words better than I can. :notworthy:
> 
> I think these people would cry if I crumpled a bloody cupcake :roll::lol2:


Ha ha, I accidentally cut a worm in half today. Maybe some of the posters on this thread can weep on my behalf?

This woman, Stacey Westfall, is one of the most famous natural horse trainers in the world, renowned for her ability to gentle even the wildest of horses. 

She will use physical contact on a horse to enforce her dominance and leadership, be it with her hand or a stick/rope. Those poor poor horses..... (sarcasm)

YouTube - Stacy Westfall on the Ellen Degeneres Show 3/14/08 part 2/2


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

I just cant see how hitting or biting your animals make you a good owner ( hitting and biting being your own words )


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> Ha ha, I accidentally cut a worm in half today. Maybe some of the posters on this thread can weep on my behalf?
> 
> This woman, Stacey Westfall, is one of the most famous natural horse trainers in the world, renowned for her ability to gentle even the wildest of horses.
> 
> ...



I really think a few of you really need to grow up.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

it is animal phsycology, if you treat the animal how they would treat each other in the wild they understand better, i never siad hitting as in punching, mearly just a slap to remind them what they are ment to be doing.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> it is animal phsycology, if you treat the animal how they would treat each other in the wild they understand better, i never siad hitting as in punching, mearly just a slap to remind them what they are ment to be doing.


Your so funny, you make me laugh so much with your comments.:whip:


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

martyb said:


> I really think a few of you really need to grow up.


I'm only one person, but thanks for the quote.

Besides, I find it hard to accept such criticism from someone that thinks using physical cues to train an animal is cruel.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> I'm only one person, but thanks for the quote.
> 
> Besides I take it hard to accept such criticism from someone that thinks using physical cues to train an animal is cruel.


What so pinning down an animal and biting it is ok and not cruel, hmm says alot about your animal keeping then doesn't it.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

martyb said:


> What so pinning down an animal and biting it is ok and not cruel, hmm says alot about your animal keeping then doesn't it.


I just spat wine all over my keyboard.... :lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i am not the only person who watches animals behaviour and uses it as a way of training


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> I just spat wine all over my keyboard.... :lol2:


I am glad it made you laugh


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

just to add the refrence i make to pinning a dog down and biting it, i said i have done this but i have seen it happen and i have had it explained to me as to why it happened, it was shocking to see. but after having it explained to me, see the dogs reaction and seeing the same dog almost every day since (over 2 yrs). i understand why it worked and it wasnt due to fear


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> what ever, you must have never worked with horses other than in a riding school where they are so laid back they be dead if they were any more laid back. some animals do only listen by a slap (some animals meaning horses and dogs), you dont have to do it hard, it can just be a tap, just to make them listen, some animals do turn a deaf ear


i dont think it does (forgive me if im wrong) apply to me, but if it does the you should know that everything i say comes from personal experience. iv never watched any horse trainers in action, be it on youtube or in person. never particularly wanted to, but thats for entirely seperate reasons. 

i keep my horse on a dealers yard, i get every end of the horsey spectrum to deal with, from well handled, immaculate mannered horses to wild as the wind ponies streight off the moors. i also deal with horses that are little :censor: because they've been allowed to get away with murder, and horses that are little :censor: because they dont know whats going on. using more physical training methods with the first type is usually whats needed, they've got away with murder for so long they need something to snap them out of it. using a more physical training method with the second type would get me nowhere, when they've calmed down maybe.

i know naff all about dog training, will freely admit it, never pretended im some kind of expert, but if this is a general argument about physical training methods for any animal i will say this: you cant generalise, what works or is needed with one animal wont work with another, with some animals a GENTLE tap/nudge can be benificial to training, its when the tap/nudge stops being gentle that i have issues. get there attention or give them a quick shock by all means, but theres no need to hurt an animal to train it.

one last quick thing: some of the worst behaved horses iv ever met have been riding school horses :whistling2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i totally understand where you are coming from with horses, my friend has a horse whos previous owner was scared of it, the second this mare turned roumd in the stable the girl would run out thinking it was gonna kick her, it has taken over a year of my friend now owning this horse, working with it everyday and the odd slap now and then (my friend weighs 7 stone and is only 5.3 tall, the horse is a 16.2 irish warmblood) to get her in line, she does not fear my friend or anyone else, she will take the p*** out of you if she knows she can get away with it, if you stand up to her then you can not fault her in any way, other than she can still be a little bit of a cow when ridden


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

SexyBear77 said:


> Ha ha, I accidentally cut a worm in half today. Maybe some of the posters on this thread can weep on my behalf?
> 
> This woman, Stacey Westfall, is one of the most famous natural horse trainers in the world, renowned for her ability to gentle even the wildest of horses.
> 
> ...


You cut a worm? :gasp: just be grateful that it wasn't a jelly worm or all hell would break loose here :gasp:


martyb said:


> I really think a few of you really need to grow up.


You including 


martyb said:


> What so pinning down an animal and biting it is ok and not cruel, hmm says alot about your animal keeping then doesn't it.


nope, not cruel at all, not like I bite chunks off them :roll:


SexyBear77 said:


> I just spat wine all over my keyboard.... :lol2:


I know :lol2::lol2: (that it's funny, not that I'm watching you or anything:whistling2


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Meko said:


> but then he'd have to advertise for a new clown.


:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

kat91 said:


> what else do you expect in this section? :lol2:
> 
> 'ooo look, they poked their dog with their pinky finger....we must alert the rspca and make immature little snide comments while we wait!!'
> 
> let's all go hug trees and prance around rainbows and talk to the animals and ask them how their day went and go talk to our 20 or so cats :flrt:


yawn!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

snakewhisperer said:


> :no1:


Once again, those of us who disagree with the harsh physical 'training' methods are labelled as tree-huggers etc. YAWN!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

you are a tree hugger though; it's all part of being a veggie :whistling2:


Although i sometimes have to get rough with Wils if she goes for Rio. A 'NO' isn't going to stop her and i'm not going to stand there pointing and saying 'no, stop that' and hoping that she listens before he gets hurt. 
So i have to get physical and be the third dog. I'll pull her off, pin her down and growl at her.. then i'll give her a kiss, she'll lick my face and when i know the moment has gone i'll let her up and she'll go back to playing with Rio. Although once i did have to threaten to give her a chinese burn when she didn't behave


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Kat91 said:


> What else do you expect in this section? :lol2:
> 
> 'ooo look, they poked their dog with their pinky finger....we must alert the RSPCA and make immature little snide comments while we wait!!'
> 
> *Let's all go hug trees *and prance around rainbows and talk to the animals and ask them how their day went and go talk to our 20 or so cats :flrt:


I hug trees I don't think you would though you might smudge your make up


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

Meko said:


> you are a tree hugger though; it's all part of being a veggie :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Although i sometimes have to get rough with Wils if she goes for Rio. A 'NO' isn't going to stop her and i'm not going to stand there pointing and saying 'no, stop that' and hoping that she listens before he gets hurt.
> *So i have to get physical and be the third dog. I'll pull her off, pin her down and growl at her.. then i'll give her a kiss, she'll lick my face and when i know the moment has gone i'll let her up *and she'll go back to playing with Rio. Although once i did have to threaten to give her a chinese burn when she didn't behave


That sounds just a little bit sexual :gasp:


FreddiesMum said:


> I hug trees I don't think you would though you might smudge your make up


:lol2: that would offend me if I wore it all the time or if I was an ugly toad without it which I'm not...thinking about it you probably could use some


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

it was half past midnight, of course it was sexual.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

:lol2: that would offend me if I wore it all the time or if I was an ugly toad without it which I'm not...*thinking about it you probably could use some [/QUOTE]*
:lol2:You have no idea what I look like...because unlike yourself I don't post photos of myself online and then fish for compliments.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

To be honest though... you are a tree hugger and Scottish so it's not looking promising :whistling2:


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Meko said:


> To be honest though... you are a tree hugger and Scottish so it's not looking promising :whistling2:


:lol2:Just as well I am not one of those people who fish for compliments or are easily offended.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Kat91 said:


> That sounds just a little bit sexual :gasp:
> 
> :lol2: that would offend me if I wore it all the time or if I was an ugly toad without it which I'm not...*thinking about it you probably could use some*


You having a laugh! make up won't fix that mess


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

FreddiesMum said:


> :lol2: that would offend me if I wore it all the time or if I was an ugly toad without it which I'm not...*thinking about it you probably could use some *



:lol2:You have no idea what I look like...because unlike yourself I don't post photos of myself online and then fish for compliments.[/QUOTE]
Okay love 


ryanr1987 said:


> You having a laugh! make up won't fix that mess


:lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

And now the mud slinging starts:bash:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> And now the mud slinging starts:bash:


which is why I have kept out.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

sarahc said:


> which is why I have kept out.


 
I really dont understand why people cant have a healthy debate without resorting to name calling and insults!!


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> I really dont understand why people cant have a healthy debate without resorting to name calling and insults!!


I know.I'll dip my toe in and say that if it wasn't for the pack theory I wouldn't have been able to keep my battling brothers,they would have killed each other or had to be re homed.Instead they are here ,secure and loved just for putting in a few strategies that some people deem terrible.Cesars way has worked for me and my dogs and no brutality has been required.The only advice I received was to rehome one:gasp:not without turning every stone,I had them for keeps.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> yawn!


You have much to say for someone who understands so little.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

snakewhisperer said:


> You have much to say for someone who understands so little.


I understand plenty, certainly enough to realise that the best way to build a good relationship with your dog is to use positive training methods, methods that make the dog use it's brain & think about things, instead of being forced into doing something.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> I understand plenty, certainly enough to realise that the best way to build a good relationship with your dog is to use positive training methods, methods that make the dog use it's brain & think about things, instead of being forced into doing something.


 I rest my case! 
Thanks for that. 
Pehaps these pondering pooches would avail themselves to the worlds problems for a couple of biscuits?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

snakewhisperer said:


> I rest my case!
> Thanks for that.
> Pehaps these pondering pooches would avail themselves to the worlds problems for a couple of biscuits?


This pretty much shows me why you use the more aversive methods of training....


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> This pretty much shows me why you use the more aversive methods of training....


 Errr. what would they be then, and what "training" am I doing?????????
As I said before,..... you say much but know little.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

snakewhisperer said:


> Errr. what would they be then, and what "training" am I doing?????????
> As I said before,..... you say much but know little.


Im just a tree-hugging veggie, what do I know? :whistling2:


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Rather be a tree-hugger then an animal abuser


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Im just a tree-hugging veggie, what do I know? :whistling2:


:notworthy:



Shadowz said:


> Rather be a tree-hugger then an animal abuser


:notworthy:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I just happen to be a tree hugger with 11 well behaved dogs:whistling2:


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I just happen to be a tree hugger with 11 well behaved dogs:whistling2:


:notworthy::notworthy:


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

snakewhisperer said:


> I rest my case!
> Thanks for that.
> Pehaps these pondering pooches would avail themselves to the worlds problems for a couple of biscuits?


:lol2::lol2: my dog could run this country 8)

ahh and now they all start fingering each other...typical :whistling2:


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## snake5007 (Apr 13, 2008)

Kat91 said:


> ahh and now they all start fingering each other...typical :whistling2:


 
Where do I sign up? :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Kat91 said:


> :lol2::lol2: my dog could run this country 8)
> 
> ahh and now they all start fingering each other...typical :whistling2:


Its sad when you have to resort to crude remarks & such.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Sign of losing an argument that is. Dear me, cant debate without resorting to dirty comments. Surprise.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

Just comes to show just how silly and childish she is.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)




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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Shadowz said:


> Rather be a tree-hugger then an animal abuser


^^^ here comes the drama queens.


I would love too see some of you deal with more difficult animals. I'll tell you what i'll drop our staffy round and you can show us how it's done? i would bet this house that you will fail and look silly in the process as a lot of you are far to soft. Zooman all i hear from you is blah blah but no actual training methods just you crying over people who have a more effective way of training difficult dogs.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Sign of losing an argument that is. Dear me, cant debate without resorting to dirty comments. Surprise.


Lisa i am surprised you are still on this forum as i know you have been banned on many other forums as well as that fool kathym.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh yes, the fabled "banned from forums" shite.

BTW, you still lose. And nice work on calling staffies problem dogs. Twit.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

not all staffies are problem dogs, just like not all of any other breed is a problem dog. he didnt say that all staffies are problem just his needs a firmer hand


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

he didn't say all staffies are problem dogs, he said OURS is. Learn to read.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Oooh I see. He's your other half. That makes sense.:no1:


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

ryanr1987 said:


> Lisa i am surprised you are still on this forum as i know you have been banned on many other forums as well as that fool kathym.


Where did she go?
I last came across her in the snake section where she hung out for a while and was surprisingly polite and even open minded. Alas though, she just couldn't help herself and started having a pop at people and I think she got a bit of a roasting (behave kat) and I haven't noticed her since.
Shame really, it does entertain me when the loons are gamboling about the place.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

She's still about, just she has a life outside of the internet, unlike moi.

Not quite sure what she has to do with this thread, and why it's gone onto being personal to her, when she's had no input in this though.

Childish, and reported to the mods.

Edited to add: I see why Kat is so spiteful now, she's had a hoo-ha with my sister and thinks that it matters to me lol.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

ryanr1987 said:


> ^^^ here comes the drama queens.
> 
> 
> I would love too see some of you deal with more difficult animals. I'll tell you what i'll drop our staffy round and you can show us how it's done? i would bet this house that you will fail and look silly in the process as a lot of you are far to soft. *Zooman all i hear from you is blah blah but no actual training methods just you crying over people who have a more effective way of training difficult dogs*.


:lol2: Aw bless you!


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

Can't we try and keep this on topic.

I bumped a foal at work today with my elbow on his nose....

Discuss. :lol2:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

ryanr1987 said:


> ^^^ here comes the drama queens.
> 
> 
> I would love too see some of you deal with more difficult animals. I'll tell you what i'll drop our staffy round and you can show us how it's done? i would bet this house that you will fail and look silly in the process as a lot of you are far to soft. Zooman all i hear from you is blah blah but no actual training methods just you crying over people who have a more effective way of training difficult dogs.


Oh wow, yes this one post SO wins the discussion :2thumb::no1::2thumb:

Am I the only one amused by the self contradiction?

Your staffy has a problem you think others couldn't handle because their training is less effective, surely if your method of training was effective your dog wouldn't still _have_ the problem


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Edited to add: I see why Kat is so spiteful now, she's had a hoo-ha with my sister and thinks that it matters to me lol.


Eh? I've never actually had any issues with your sister so don't know where this came from!


snakewhisperer said:


> Where did she go?
> I last came across her in the snake section where she hung out for a while and was surprisingly polite and even open minded. Alas though, she just couldn't help herself and started having a pop at people and I think she got a bit of a roasting *(behave kat)* and I haven't noticed her since.
> Shame really, it does entertain me when the loons are gamboling about the place.


I'm confused what happened with me and kathym that I don't even remember? :hmm:


Kare said:


> Oh wow, yes this one post SO wins the discussion :2thumb::no1::2thumb:
> 
> Am I the only one amused by the self contradiction?
> 
> Your staffy has a problem you think others couldn't handle because their training is less effective, surely if your method of training was effective your dog wouldn't still _have_ the problem


We've only started the training about a month ago (and we don't even live in london so it's hard), so obviously he's not going to change that quick, bearing in mind he's 5 and has always had it his way. This is the only method that seems to be working on him, I've tried other stuff and it doesn't work.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i think he means the 'roasting' part.


What does surprise me about this thread is that so many people seem oblivious to the fact that one size doesn't fit all. Not every dog can be trained the same way; many can do it with rewards and gentle persuasion but some do need a firmer hand and a tougher training regime.
It doesn't mean it's cruel or you're a bad owner, it means other methods haven't worked.

If people can't accept that, then they're a bit niave.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

snakewhisperer said:


> Where did she go?
> I last came across her in the snake section where she hung out for a while and was surprisingly polite and even open minded. Alas though, she just couldn't help herself and started having a pop at people and I think she got a bit of a roasting (behave kat) and I haven't noticed her since.
> Shame really, it does entertain me when the loons are gamboling about the place.


I'm not sure mate, last i see of her was her being a nuisance. she used to basically live on this forum so she either got banned or probably just buggered off. I know her and lisa got banned on many other forums for causing shit and ganging up on other members so she could of got banned :lol2::lol2:



Zoo-Man said:


> :lol2: Aw bless you!


and again nothing decent to say.



Kare said:


> Oh wow, yes this one post SO wins the discussion :2thumb::no1::2thumb:
> 
> Am I the only one amused by the self contradiction?
> 
> Your staffy has a problem you think others couldn't handle because their training is less effective, surely if your method of training was effective your dog wouldn't still _have_ the problem


If you have read post about him you will see that we are in the process of training him and this method is working so calm yourself down.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You "know" nothing, I've not been banned from a forum, other than DPs about 8 years ago.

You need to get out more.

Ps. Kathy's not banned either, nor has she buggered off, in fact she was at a meet recently, you know, with real people, not just sitting on the internet stalking people.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

And closing, this is going no where fast.


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