# marmoset



## annewynne

hi,does anyone have any info of marmoset breeders with young for sale in the uk,any info would be much appreciated,only place i can find is 1 website and scam adverts,many thanks.


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## Esarosa

if you're serious about getting a marmoset...n i hate the idea of them in captivity as most people cannot provide the right environment.(social groups oodles of space etc etc)..then pm tska rory or nerys. they're apart of tska rainbow, and basically act as agents between breeders/sellers and the public. They do have strict vetting tho on the sale of primates. But if you're serious that shouldn't be a problem?

hope that helps


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## annewynne

thanks for the info,but i have done my research and know about housing,space,enrichment,diet-etc...but most pets these days were once wild,i understand where your coming from,as the majority of people cant even look after themselves,but my pets are well looked after,and want for nothing,like i said i have done my research,as i do with any pet i own,thanks for the info.


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## Esarosa

how many are you planning on getting out of curiosity? 

it's not the fact they were wild caught once upon a time, so much as the amount of interaction,enrichment,space etc they need..few can provide that. 

Think you have to do a questionnaire or something through tska but on behalf of the breeders. Best place to go though if you're serious, good luck


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## annewynne

thanks for the site info,i have seen ads all over but some we know are not genuine,and the prices some people charge are mad,not that money should come into it,but you dont get them without it,anyway im not in a hurry as i like to have everything ready and in place before,so i know anything the animal needs is right here,i will purchase 1 marmoset to start with,i have done my research(but never had 1 before) so i would rather learn from 1 then once im more knowledgeable i will add more,i wouldnt just keep 1 on its own as they need to interact with each other,that i know.


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## brittone05

You would be very lucky if TSKA would consider selling a lone marmoset to you unless you have others already in your care whom it would be interacting with. (Although speaking to Rory and Nerys would allow them to properly explain thier vetting procedures) As said by ~Rory in another thread here, only 2 out of 10 applicants for primates are actually deemed suitable via thier procdures.

I don't agree, however, that your "just getting 1 to learn from" would be beneficial to either the mamromoset or yourself. You will learn far more by observing a marmoset in a pair or small group than you ever will singly. Rory and Nerys can point you in the right direction with regards to the housing and environmental needs that you would need to arrange before the actual purchase of a pair and can offer some great advice with regards to primates and exotic mammals. Glidergirl, I beleive, has also kept primates in the past (may be wrong though gets confused!!) so she may be along to reply also.

There are private and shop sellers who have marmosets for sale in the UK but please be very careful that they are more interested in your cash rather than the wellbeing of the animals.

Do you have previous experience with exotic mammals at all? Would love to see pics etc of any you have.

I do have to say, I agree with KAtie and I strongly beleive that the removal of primates such as marmosets from the DWA was a huge mistake and allows the floodgates for sellers, and buyers, to jump in feet first (am not saying this is what you are doing BTW) without properly assessing the animals needs


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## Moshpitviper

If its one marmy you want.... you will learn a lot. unfortunately you'll learn a lot about marmosets slowly going mad.

do buy at least 2, a group is preferable.


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## glidergirl

Try again ... I've spent the last half an hour typing out a reply and what do you know ... IE crashed!!!! 

Right!!!! 

I can put you in touch with a reputable breeder, but you would need to do alot of research before you approach him, he'll ask questions over the phone which you will need to be able to answer (without the use of the internet!). 

As has already been said, one marmie will not thrive, you need to consider having two, they don't need to be a breeding pair though. You also need to consider why you want a marmoset, many people are under the impression that all marmmies will sit on your shoulder whilst you go about your business, this isn't going to happen! Even though they are CB they're still wild animals, there's such a lot you need to research from diet, housing, enrichment, body language (important as you can make an instant enemy if you unwittingly challenge or threaten them), zoonotic diseases to name a few!

Although marmosets are only small, they do require a large space to live in, preferably with a heated indoor retreat and a secure outdoor cage so they can move freely between to two. Something like a large ourdoor bird aviary and flight, but bigger is better. It needs to be 100% secure as primates are very dextrous and will be able to unbolt/undo anything that is within their grasp. The enclosure needs to be filled with trees/branches, plarforms, ropes, swings etc to keep them occupied.

The diet isn't _the_ hardest (suggies are much harder to get right), they should be fed a couple of times a day, things like fruits, veggies, insects, boiled/scrambled egg, multivitamins, calcium (and D3 depending on the amount of natural uv they get) are what I gave my primates during the daytime, and they'd have cooked pasta, baby cereal, a bit of bread and honey, and a small marshmallow each before bed. 

Marmosets in the wild are gum eaters, they go and actively seek out wounds in trees and they use their teeth to make the hole larger and they lap the gum up, so that's a good enrichment technique you could incorporate that would benefit them in a dietary sense as well as an enrichement exercise.

Zoonotic diseases are an issue with all primates, what is a common cold or even a cold sore to us can be fatal in primates, so you need to think about hygiene and how to deal with them when you are sick.

I'd definately recommend buying from a reputable breeder, they can advise you as to care, ask you questions and discuss the answer, they can give you the animals background, meet the parents (or a pic), they can tell you the animals likes and dislikes, and their personality (because they're all different).

I wouldn't recommed getting one to learn from though, it's not fair on the animal suffering because of your mistakes, learn as much as you can before you purchase, and _continue_ to learn once you have your animals.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Marie has summed it all up nicely.

I would just emphasize the points of this:

One by itself is a disaster waiting to occur. Always buy in a pair, as Marie has pointed out they do not need to be a sexed pair, as in a male and a female.

Research, research, research is the key and if you have done this then you would know already that a single primate is not the way forwards anyway.

Speak to current primate keepers. Glean the knowledge they have.

Be aware that primates are politically sensitive as a species in the UK today and as such reputable keepers of primates are going to vet you/screen you to ensure you are who you attain yourself to be and that is a genuine keeper looking to take on board primates.

Again ask yourself this one burning question........Why do l want to own primates?

R


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## Esarosa

completely echo what brittone05 has said.

not only do they act as agents between buyers and sellers they also help make the sellers lives easier in the sense they vet potential buyers on behalf of the owners..then i think pass the information onto the breeder for them to make their own mind up.

What would you prefer them to do? Do this work for free? Don't be so ridiculous! It is a business at the end of the day, but unlike alot of the dodgy dealers around after a quick book... who don't care about exploiting the animals in question...these guys do bloody good work! 

My gut wrenched when i realised that certain primates were coming off the DWA as I knew what would happen. It has opened the flood gates to people who see pound signs instead of welfare.. spoilt children 'daddy i want a monkey' ok hunni.. at least when they were on the DWA it was a pre requisite you HAD to research, know and have the enclosure set up for the animal(s) in question before you got them. I Know the DWA Is supposed to be there for humans safety rather than primates, but to me primates should never have been brought off the dwa...serious keepers could still purchase them, but it would stop alot of the unscrupulous dealers and insta buyers who go 'look how cute!!'


sorry rant over but i'm really sensitive about this subject


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## phil the drill

KATIE HAVE YOU EVER kept squirrel monkeys or marmosets


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## brittone05

Mods - this is in no way meant to be offensive but please remove it if it is deemed irrelevant to the thread 

Phil in response to you.........

Firstly, I have my glasses on thank you. I simply caught the "enter" key with my finger as I was rather fristrated whilst typing.

Your'e age and my age has got to be the most irrelevant point ever made in a thread about PRIMATE WELFARE and the BASHING OF A REPUTABLE CONSULTANCY!

I do not sit waiting to pounce, you will see that I had previously posted on this thread, my user CP settings mean I receive an email notifiation of any reply. I was luckily at my computer when the email came through so replied straight away.

There are "honest" opinions that come across as unbiased and truthful to the general users of a forum such as this and then there are obviously bias opinions which come across as vindictive and, quite honesty, ridiculous such as your reply did.

You made no genuine point regarding the OP's initial query and instead accused a business of being overpriced because their sellers set the price.

So, when Tesco's next offer a price hike on milk because the cost of farming has risen again - shall we publicly boycott them because they should absorb the costs of thier workers and give us milk for free?

Please, be realistic in your statements and be "adult" as you state you are and only raise valid points relevant to the initial thread questions.

And for the record, I have never kept primates either - does that mean I am also not alowed to view and comment on primate based threads as Katie has done. (WAVES to Katie xx)


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## Esarosa

no I haven't. The reason being I don't have the adequate space or facilities that these amazing creatures require.
So i won't buy them simply because I have the money! I want what's best for the animals i manage.

That's not to say I haven't researched into them, and once upon a time had dreams of being a primatologist.

Your point is nul and void as I'm not saying you have no primate experience, I'm saying that you slagging off tska was wrong.. You have no personal experience with them and are going solely on hearsay. Without looking into it yourself. 

So getting personal like you are doing is completely irrelevent really don't you think?


At the end of the day this thread was started by the OP to help provide her with a marmoset, a breeder/supplier. I Advised her to the best place I know of.

If you have a problem with that then take it up in pm with me and stop hijacking the thread please.


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## phil the drill

well ive kept squirrells and marmosets so i do no a bit about them there harmless no more dangerous than say a dog so if you havent kept them you dont no any of the habits or what there really like so dogs should be on dwa theres more people injured /killed bye them then there is a squirrel monkey ps katie if they are just a broker agent how do they gain experience if they dont sell or keep animals at home how can they advise i can give the best advice from a book but hands on experience with the animal is best .just a point i thought id mention


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## brittone05

Yes but squirrel monkeys are NOT the focus of this thread or they weren't until you came along.

I honeslty beleive if you have a problem with a broker/consultant such as Rory or indeed a private seller and do not liek their prices then simply don't buy!

And before the question is raised as to my defensive nature I know Rory and Nerys both on a business and personal level. They are the first port of call for me for any animals - be them reptiles, mammals or anything inbetween because I know the stock is clean, healthy and well checked before it comes to me. They are also good friends of mine and my husbands and I know the hard work and stress they both go through business wise to try to keep people happy.

As someone who has kept primates, you Phil should be grateful that TSKA has such stringent guidelines for buyers they prevent numpties from owning many species for thier clients perhaps a business ethic more should adopt would you not agree!


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## Esarosa

They do keep animals and they do have experience of many many animals. And I would ALWAYS trust advice that they give out. As they are on top of their game!

Not everyone wants to breed animals to make a quick buck so to speak, Rory and Nerys act as a consultant between people..

The breeders/sellers ASK them to get involved and trust them. So they obviously have no problem with them, I fail to see why you have. Unless you're worried about business being taken away :whistling2:

As said if you care about primates you should be thankful for people like TSKA. As Brit said they stop numpties buying an otherwise specialised animal.

And as I said, i know why the DWA is there..to protect humans..not the animals. But as I said primates should never have come off..and if they did their should have been some sort of protection put in place for them in my honest opion

Anyways back to the thread to help the OP in her search!


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## phil the drill

brittone point taken when i started i did the rounds i would ask the seller to come down look at my set up or go to theres even taken photos of my pens ready for the animals to go in i never had any problems always got the animal and wos always well looked after i no i can go back to people and buy some more animals .but wots the point of an agent thats never kept monkeys how does he no the ins and outs of them .except what comes out of a text book . just my point thats all no offence to your buddy


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## brittone05

But how do you know what experience Rory or Nerys have with primates as you have not asked!
How do you know that it is not the clients who use TSKA who request the guidelined enclosure size for the said animals being sold?

I apologise for what may have seemed an attack toward you but I know the dedication Rory and Nerys put into thier work and private keeping - I know because I have asked and I have seen in person.

I just feel you could be more constructive having hands on experience than marring someone's business like you have tried to do.

Back on topic now though


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## phil the drill

point taken i do no of them its a pointless row because i no most of the breeders if theres something im after i just go straight to them and cut the broker /agent fees out it dusnt effect my hobby .i cant afford high price animals that are over priced. wont this just stop people from keeping them . if theres two pubs spaced 50 yards apart selling the same beer and one pub is 40 pence cheaper i no whitch pub id be in the one that cuts out the middle man .


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## glidergirl

I'm not going to join in on this but Rory DID say he didn't keep the animals he acts as a go between (the post was removed). I personally would prefer to buy directly from the breeder so you can get advice from someone that's experienced with the animal. Book (or google) knowledge is great, but nothing is better than experience ... but that's just my opinion. 

And yes ... I've kept tamarins, squirrel monkeies, lemurs and marmies. : victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

I think its fair to say Phil, and l do not wish for yet another thread to go off topic.

That not everyone would wish to use a broker, it is each individual persons choice not coerced choice, but voluntary choice to either use the brokerage or not.

We do not specifically approach anyone, but we are approached by others for all sorts of issues. I do not approach zoos, l have no direct contact with British zoos. I do have a lot of contact with European zoos, but again they approach me, not vice versa.

I do not approach shops, some approach me with a view to supply and l do not, or alternatively we do have clients that work within that environment that use our service.

I do not go hunting specifically for new clients, they do seek us out.

I do not pester my existing clients, for if they have a surplus they usually call me.

So l do not coerce sales from anyone one buyer nor surplus from anyone seller.

Okay, primate experience, no, l do not own primates, nor have any wish to.

I did state in my original response directly after Marie for the OP to learn from other keepers of primates.

When l work with a client 50% of the information comes from them, and 50% l have learned from other clients over the years. I do have a primatologist client on board and he is a valued friend, colleague and business associate and he offers a great deal of information.

My job is simple if you wish to stretch it, l find the right residencies for animals, and l find the right ownership for said animals.

TSKA place on board a 25% admin fee/commission on all non clients, and between an 8% - 15% admin fee/commission on all existing clients of TSKA.

Whether Squirrel Monkeys or Marmosets are harmless is to me irrelevant at present if we talk of the politics - for all primates should be under some kind of regulation licence or registration. 

This way we, not TSKA, but we as keepers would be able to see the animals [primates] in the right conditions and set ups, under the right ownership, husbandry the works.

Phil, with your twelve years as a primate keeper, you are only or should only be too well aware of the politics that could very well affect your ability to keep primates in the future.

It is all the responsibility of primate keepers to ensure that they do whatever possible to ensure that the novice keepers and even existing keepers are treated the same way, but above everything to make damn sure that the primates are seen under the best light of the political regime that is trying to deter the keeping of this species in private hands.

I wonder - do you speak out as loudly in political terms for your rights as a primate keeper to keep as you do in the slamming of my business in the efforts to try and ensure that primates are in the right ownership?

If you do then well done, for so many primate keepers have lost their political voice and are now too fearful to show their political rights above the parapet for fear of them being blown off by the anti primate keeping groups. If you do not, then you should.

I do not expect people, keepers to like brokers....consultants, whatever you wish to term us/me, but we are needed. And when l started TSKA from Piedipers Ark it was much needed then, and if keepers did not like the service they would not use us end of day.

R


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## phil the drill

thanks glider girl thats my point hands on experieince you cant beat that never mind a go between thats why i have a phone so i can speak to directly and ask as many questions as you like about the animal


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## Snakes r grreat

This is the second time tonight i have had to edit this thread, i hope i dont have to again! Please leave this thread clear for the purposes that the OP opened it, which was not to debate the in's and outs of who is killing the hobby etc etc etc.

Thank You


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## phil the drill

mod then delete it all the truth is theres been no bad language its a diffrence of opinion and standing up to whats right it wos sorted out what happened to free speech delete my posts and rorys thank you


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## annewynne

*marmosets*

well to thank everyone for the information,i think going to a breeder directly is my best option,can find out a lot more then,i understand people have there opinions-including me,meeting a breeder will give me a greater understanding about marmosets and find out first hand all the pros and cons,reading a book and care guides is easy.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Phil, 

I have pm'd you.

regards Rory


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## glidergirl

Good on you annewynne. : victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

annewynne said:


> well to thank everyone for the information,i think going to a breeder directly is my best option,can find out a lot more then,i understand people have there opinions-including me,meeting a breeder will give me a greater understanding about marmosets and find out first hand all the pros and cons,reading a book and care guides is easy.


Good choice

R


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## the keeper

hi and thanks for all the posts its my wife who is after (a) monkey now its monkeys i my self don't like seeing any animal alone now what is the smallest cage two can be housed in thanks ps they will be in the house


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## Esarosa

The idea is you can't keep them happily in a cage. They need a large outside aviary if you will, as big as you can manage. And a heated area,maybe a shed? or an access into the house but in a safe area if that was possible?

Has to be fiddle proof as i'd call it as they can get into almost anything apparently.

The best person to talk to would be glidergirl I think. If you pm her i'm sure she'll be able to help more than we can


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Well they should not be kept in the house for starters.

Minimum size for a pair of marmosets, should be

Indoors 36Lx36Wx72H with an outdoor enclosure of 72Lx36Wx84H. This is one big environment, not two smaller ones, but one large enclosure.

Katiexx is correct, a heated indoor environment is a requirement.

These are sizes [before anyone says anything] set by an experienced 20 year primate keeper and the sizes are found here in a grid we are establishing for mammals.

TSKA - Rainbow Market Management -- Exotic Species Consultancy Services

An oversized parrot cage is far from acceptable.

R

ps:

Please see one of the TSKA care guides, written no less by Glidergirl herself, Marie Bannister

TSKA-Rainbow Care Guides -- "Quest For Knowledge"

You may also find some of the articles written here helpful.

TSKA - Rainbow Market Management -- Exotic Species Consultancy Services

http://www.thespecialistkeepersassociation.com/tspkabookstore.htm


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## annewynne

*marmosets*

i have read about the housing requirements,and we already have an outdoor-indoor enclosure,the outdoor size is(7ftx6ftx6ft) and the indoor which is a large converted brick built workshop approx(8ftx10ftx12ft) the outdoor enclosure is joined onto the indoor enclosure,this was originally done to house ragdoll cats,but never used,ok i need to make a few adjustments(of which i know) the large cage my husband mentioned is to be used in the house(6ftx3ftx2ft).


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Well Anne, 

The indoor/outdoor enclosure sizes mentioned are fine. You will not have any need for the indoor house cage (6ftx3ftx2ft), when you have spacious converted space available. Your marmosets will certainly enjoy the indoor/outdoor enclosure.

R


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## brittone05

Your outdoor enclosure sounds wonderful for them.

Can we maybe see pics in progress as you are organising it? Would be a learning curve for any others who are considering primates.

I do agree though, with that size enclosure and the garage conversion part heated suitably for them, they would have no need for the indoor aviary cage you have.

Could you maybe use the 6x3x2 for something else? I had gliders in cages roughly that size and they seemed to be fine in there


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## annewynne

yes will post pics no problem,like i mentioned im not in a rush,as i like to have everything in place and ready before purchasing an animal,which benefits me and the animal as im not running round looking for anything needed,and like my hubby we read all there is to know beforehand,i definately want 2 to start with,like i have found out,getting 2 at separate times could be stressful for them and heard of them killing each other,and wouldnt want that,so i know more now about them,as for ages i have read different opinions,what is the best age to get a pair? some say 18 months old that have carried,but i read that they shouldnt be bred from till at least 24months,or there could be problems with the young or the mum?


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## brittone05

I would imagine that younger would be better for taming etc although if you can get an adult bonded pair who have had human interaction also then you may be good with them too 

Marie will no doubt advise on this for you as she has got hands on experience which I haven't


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## glidergirl

Rory - the sizes you quote, sorry if I'm being totally thick here (prob not enough coffee), are they in inches, mm, feet, meters? Cus, 72 and 84ft high seems alot (lol), as does 72 or 84m, yet 72 inches or mm is really small!!! 

I've honest to god never seen an enclosure THAT big for much larger primates even! Unless of course I have absolutely no idea what 72ft looks like (heck I don't even know how far away 100 yards is!!!!) :whistling2:

The thing about primates is the dispute as to when they should leave the parents, when we breed, ours stay with the parents for upto 2 more births in order that they can learn what to do, take them away too early and you'll have baby monkeys (if they breed that is) dying or being mutilated by the parents. As odd as it may sound, parenting skills are not instinctive in primates, it's a learned behaviour as you will see (if they breed) mum actually does very little of the work. 

This is something you will have to discuss with the breeder, some may be willing to let them go after a year some after they've weaned. What you need to realise though AnneWynne, they do bond, but not always to the extent people 'expect'. Will you be happy with marmosets that you can't handle quite so much as you'd hoped? We had Sanguinus labiatus (amongst other things) which are notorious in the primate world as pure hooligans (bless them), yet ours were wonderful, they'd jump all over you, take food off you but we could never 'pet' them. They were really great parents too. 

As Harryb said (post has since been removed!), a main consideration is a competent vet who is knowledgable and experienced with primates, have you tried any of the surgeries in your local area? Don't be surprised if you get sarcastic nasty replies telling you you shouldn't keep them and don't bother with monkey world because they're just awful and won't help at all, even if it's a matter of life or death!! :censor:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

'Rory - the sizes you quote, sorry if I'm being totally thick here (prob not enough coffee), are they in inches, mm, feet, meters? Cus, 72 and 84ft high seems alot (lol), as does 72 or 84m, yet 72 inches or mm is really small!!!' 

I've honest to god never seen an enclosure THAT big for much larger primates even! Unless of course I have absolutely no idea what 72ft looks like (heck I don't even know how far away 100 yards is!!!!) :whistling2:



Hi Marie, 

Did you go to the link provided out of interest, admittedly l should have included the 'inches' in my post, the link does state it to be inches and this was a minimum sized enclosure for Cotton eared Marmosets laid out by Darren Morris, you know him.

You kept primates, what size were your enclosures?

I think l have photos somewhere still of the Tamarins enclosures.

R


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## Nerys

lol, 72 foot high would be nice tho eh.. 

imagine what the neighbours would say! 

not the sort of thing you could have if you were only an indoor keeper tho! 

unless you lived in a high rise and could use the fire escapes or lift "holes" 

would be nice for the animals i guess eh!

N


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## toothe

would love to see pics of the enclosure. 

always wanted to keep a primate but its not realistic at least not until i have a much larger place. problem that comes then is holidays (who could keep thme) wana see this enclosure tho sounds awesome.


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## Nerys

toothe said:


> would love to see pics of the enclosure.
> 
> always wanted to keep a primate but its not realistic at least not until i have a much larger place. problem that comes then is holidays (who could keep thme) wana see this enclosure tho sounds awesome.


which one? i've seen the pics of maries indoor set ups, but none of the outdoor parts of their accomodation.. i don't know if there are no pics of the outdoor parts.. or no outdoor parts to take pics of. you cannot tell much from the pics of maries, bar the fact they have white/cream wallpaper behind the cages..i think they were taken more to show the animals inside, rather than the actual enclosures. i guess you could guesstimate cage sizes in places, from the measurments of the mesh, and what you can see of the sides, or roof, if you really needed too, tho tbh, its easier just to ask marie i guess, what size she allocated each species. useful to know also, as its often asked, what size people have actually kept them in, rather than just what size is recomended for them. 

pics of enclosures also help others with design ideas etc. i met some gorgeous lemurs the weekend just gone, and they had proper big outdoor enclosures, each with its own little wooden play house with heated lamps for shelter and warmth, as well as all the ropes and bridges and walkways and so on. at one point i had lemurs bounding over my head as i was trying to take pics of them to go on the stock available list.. great fun tho i have to say... and having a cuddle with a black and white was very neat.. he did have a jolly cold nose tho!

have to say tho marie.. those tamarins are amazingly sweet to look at! i love the punk hair styles! and the baby white lips.. such big eyes!!! they look permenently startled in the pics! those white lips make them look like they have had their faces in a bowl of milk! they do look great, i bet they were right active little guys!

its a shame i did not know you guys when you still had them all, i'd have loved to see the tamarins in the flesh.. the only primates i ever got to see of yours, where the lemurs of yours that richard sold though TSKA to that chap in ireland. mind you they were little sweeties too.

i may not have any first hand experience of keeping primates, but one thing i do now know, is some great people who can offer first hand advice! i've never pretended i have kept primates, either properly or otherwise, but yes, if people ask me advice, i do know keepers, via tska, who are qualified primatologists, or decent keepers of many years experience, who i refer queries too. i don't think i have ever answered a primate enquiry "from reading a book or looking on google". and tska get far more "real" enquires via phone, then we do wannabes from internet sites like this.

N

(will see if i can find the pic i got of the lemur "peering out the net curtains" of his little house!!! such a character he was!)


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## Nerys

ah here we go, how full of charm is this little one!

"oi.. whats going on out here?? lemme see, lemme see!!!"










N


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## Moshpitviper

Nerys said:


> ah here we go, how full of charm is this little one!
> 
> "oi.. whats going on out here?? lemme see, lemme see!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N


HE appears to be saying 'I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU BLOODY KIDS TO STAY OFF MY LAWN!!!????!!!!!'

nobody? just me thinks that then. :whistling2:


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## Nerys

lol dave.. you know they really loved their little houses!!

this enclosure is about 12ft high i think.. poss a little more? 










and i had to crop in on this pic, on the lemurs face.. see below 

lol.. bless !!

its been really nice this xmas, i have got to meet lots of the TSKA client base, and had some really nice times meeting their animals, and photographing them too... i cannot make up my mind which was my favourite encounter.. the cheetah who weaved roud my legs.. the anteater that wanted to sit in my lap, the baby kinkajou cuddled in my top, the prehensile tailed porcs munching goodies from the hand, the lemur that giggled as i tickled him under the arm pits..

i guess, for any of the clients who read this, thank you all so much for letting me take pics, and meet your wonders.. for those who DO understand where we are coming from, thank you all.

and to those who knock us. let this lemur's message sum it up..










:whistling2:

Nerys


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## Moshpitviper

Told !


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## brittone05

Ohhh that Lemur looks fab with his little window  

You are so lucky to get to meet and work with such wonderful species Nerys (and Rory) - something most o us can only ever dream of doing


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## glidergirl

Ahhhhh - 72 inches = 6ft :lol2:, told you I was being thick I was thinking cm's!!!! Toooooooo little coffee as previously stated. I thought it was weird, I'd never question Darren though. 

We don't really do pics, the primates are gone so whatever was there has gone too. One thing for sure though, all cages were secure so no escapees.

Just as an after thought - what the heck have lemurs got to do with marmosets, so many off topic posts!!!! You BAD girl Nerys!!


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## phil the drill

i thought it wos nerys at first


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## brittone05

Lost us all there Phil!!!!

Shame you don't have pics Marie - would have been great to see some enclosures for them


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## Nerys

lol marie, i just could not resist that pic of the lemur looking out the window 

and i've not gotten over to our marmost keeping clients as yet to get pics and pick their brains...

shame you never got pics.. i would have loved to see more of those tamarins of yours... the ones i have seen that rory has (i think the ones that were taken when DM was after the squiggle monkeys???) with the baby ones in, are muchus sweetus !!

i know yours have come down now, but what sort of sizes where they? the more people i ask, the more i learn after all, and seeing as i have you (amongst others) to ask, its better i do that than go by google. after all. re-writing care sheets from other peoples sites, is not my game.. i prefer to ask the keepers (or ex keepers) and go from there.

i do get asked a lot about enclosure size, so it does help to know the basics, even if i have not kept them myself, i can still advise people what other keepers used to use, so yeah, i am asking all the keepers i know, what size their housing is, or was, so i can get an idea.

tbh, i am, in the main, against private primate keepers. of course you get exceptions like DM, but there are too many people who think its ok to keep primates in large versions of parrot cages in spare rooms, and in my opinion, thats just not on. 

far too many people, want a "cute little monkey" as a house pet, and seemingly have no idea what they are really getting into.. i guess i feel the same about primates as you do about meerkats marie - they should not be pets in pretty cages in someones front, back, or spare room.

and phil, no, the lemur is much cuter than i am  and my arse is bigger too... *pmsl*

Nerys


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## glidergirl

We're just not like that - we don't like to advertise the fact we keep them, the enclosures changed so much over the years, when we first started keeping tams they were indoors, then we had the bright idea of modifying the dining room windows to allow access to the great outdoors and aviary's. So yes, the indoor part was in the house. Again we didn't like to advertise the fact because it makes you a target. We don't allow people around to the house (except close friends) because of the animals we've kept/keep/will hopefully keep in the future.


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## SiUK

I would love to keep primates, but I doubt I ever will, never say never though, who knows circumstances might change in years to come.


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## Nerys

did you have extra heat in the indoor bit aswell marie? or was house temps enough for them? i have often thought about indoor/outdoor like that, via a patio door or something.. but then how do you keep the room warm, if its open to outside? heat lamps i suppose?? and a good draught excluder on the door into the rest of the house! did you just have the tams by that point then? i have a mental image now of you with wire mesh enclosures coming off every window in the house! 

i wanted to do something similar, albeit smaller scale, for things like chameleons.. out the window into outdoor mesh pens hanging off the wall, but i would have issues as the whole room ambient would drop overall then.

so, when you kept them just in indoor housing, was that becuase of the "what the neighbours might say" issue? (ie so people would not know you had them i mean?)

its a bummer isn't it, when people attitudes get in the way of being able to keep them outdoors with access to natural light and so on..

you know, i still get people who think that just giving them access to a window (a shut one) will do them as much good as being outside! when anyone who really looks into it knows full well that nothing beneficial comes through glass in the first place!!! and we all know that even the better UV lights on the market only give off as much UV as the average UK sunset!

maybe instead of banning primate keeping, they should ban the keeping of primates indoors in bloody over sized parrot cages !!!! that would be, i think, a lot more beneficial!

N


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## glidergirl

We built the aviaries on the back, so they were hidden away from the road, footpath, other houses by _our_ house, the house is very old and positioned quite oddly as in our front door isn't facing the road. 

We had the heating on constantly, we recently found that British Gas had made some huge cock ups and have since had a 'proper' bill which really, really hurt!!! House temps during the summer are fine, but during the winter if you have the heating off then it's just too cold for them. 

We basically got some friends around and the window was replaced by draught proof (virtually) cat flaps, most of the window was temporarily filled in with god knows what - so there was only small holes for the cat flaps.

The inside cages were 6ft high, 7ft long and 3.5ft wide (i think), externally, they were 6ft high, 7ft long and 6ft wide, we have quite a lot of land attached to the house.

See Rory - if you'd used ft instead of inches I'd have been ok!!!!

Everything is back to 'normal' now, windows in tact, it's great having builders and carpenters as friends! We have a great friend who makes steel viv's for us too!


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## Nerys

i bet, no more shivering in the mornings lol lol

steel vivs sound good ! bet they are heavy tho?

we've got a client who makes enclosures, you know the strong wire grid type ones? one day i'd like to order a whole load of panels from him and go mad in the back garden 

i've got radiators on our outdoor lot who need a bit of supplemental heat... our 'leccy meter goes up faster than my milometer, and thats saying something... :crazy:

N


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## glidergirl

No, the vivs are surprisingly light actually, I was surprised!! They're ideal for venomous, he can make enclosures too.


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## phil the drill

i kept mine in a glass house with opening windows glass you say well it got warm in there never had any trouble with this type of set up they never ran in to it they can look through it marmosets in the wild dont jump on wire netting to me this wos a more natural enviroment were they can look straight out .and see whats going on around them.attached to this is the heated nestbox i used a reptile power plate attached to the roof then conected to a stat the size of the box is 18x12x15 made of plywood with a four inch square cut out. i never had any trouble with this type of pen even when its cold wheather they would be out playing. ps a good tip here if you do sell the offspring use a box that the monkey can see out of they dont get stressed as much and i always put a tea towel in with them this will be a tea towel thats come out of the nestbox with THERE scent on it


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## Nerys

glidergirl said:


> No, the vivs are surprisingly light actually, I was surprised!! They're ideal for venomous, he can make enclosures too.


prices??

does he work for other people too?

N


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## Snakes r grreat

I think ive managed to get this thread back to where it was ok.

I have now done so 3 times, and yet again can i ask people not to make personal comments about other members, and not to go off topic from the purpose of this thread!

*Edit* Well i gave you the chance, and you still carried on, so ive closed the thread, apologies to the original poster.


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