# Gold Fish keep dying why?



## pebbles (Jul 12, 2006)

This might seem stupid but my son's goldfish keep dying and I don't know why.

We had one (not any special kind just a cheap one) set up a little tank with tap water, gravel, small filter etc and it was dead after about 3 weeks. So changed all the stuff in the fish tank and brought another one (from a different pet shop). This time I added "safe water" and that one lasted 1 week.

My son is asking for another but I'm not going to get anymore until I know what I'm doing wrong.


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

Is there a filter? Do you let the tank cycle for at least 10 days before adding the fish? How big is the tank? Do you get the water tested before adding the fish? Where do you buy the fish from?


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## pebbles (Jul 12, 2006)

Yes there is a small filter, no I hadn't let the water cycle (stupid of me but didn't think you had to with gold fish), the tank is just one of those little plastic ones you get from Wilkinsons and no didn't get the water tested. Oh and We got the first one from a big pet shop/garden centre by me and the second one with got from a smaller pet shop in my local town


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

Theres the problem, right there- any tank, for any fish needs to cycle. I vote, half empty the tank, re-fill it, and leave it with the filter running for 10 days. For a tank that size, I wouldn't recommend a common Goldfish- they are fully capable of reaching 14 inches, and will out-grow the tank in a matter of weeks. Try a small shoal of White Cloud Mountain Minnows instead- you could have 4 or 5... Introduce them 2 at a time, leaving the tank for a week inbetween- you shouldn't have any trouble then.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Are you declorinating the water?


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## TUBBS (Mar 16, 2009)

Tomcat - thats what the safe water product they mentioned does...

when you cycle it for 10 days you have to add an ammonia source such as adding a small pinch of fish food each day, else leaving it will do nothing

minnows and danios would be much better choices, or personally if in a warm room then a siamese fighter


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Prob a combination of the tank being too small which is stressful for the fish plus the uncycled water poisoning the fish. Have a read of the Fishless Cycle Guide at the top of the forum which explains the best way to set up a tank. : victory:

Btw, if only LFS supported the method more (as opposed to just selling you more fish as if it's _your _fault that you weren't advised properly :devil, there'd be a lot less upset children out there wondering why their fish just died...


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

it makes me laugh that so many people think goldfish are somehow exempt from the normal rules of fishkeeping...

hope your next goldy fairs better : victory:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

daftlassieEmma said:


> it makes me laugh that so many people think goldfish are somehow exempt from the normal rules of fishkeeping...


I know, poor goldies. 

I'm sure the OP was only going by what the LFS told her though...:bash:


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

Here's betting the LFS was Pets at Home...


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## mythicdawn07 (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah i'v had a few gold fish, lasted about two week's. Was told to just plop it in a bowl and feed it. They also had lots in plastic bags's at the carnival which they were selling for pennies.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Hi
Sorry to hear about your goldies

Just thought i would point out that leaving a tank running for 10 days will NOT cycle the filter, even if you add ammonia each day. To cycle a filter using the pure ammonia method takes anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks. 
There is a write about cycling your filter in my webbie (siggie).


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Trillian said:


> I know, poor goldies.
> 
> I'm sure the OP was only going by what the LFS told her though...:bash:


aye, but even so it doesn't matter what animal you buy a degree of research prior to purchasing should occur...



strictly_scales said:


> Here's betting the LFS was Pets at Home...


 pah, most likely


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

> Theres the problem, right there- any tank, for any fish needs to cycle. I vote, half empty the tank, re-fill it, and leave it with the filter running for 10 days. For a tank that size, I wouldn't recommend a common Goldfish- they are fully capable of reaching 14 inches, and will out-grow the tank in a matter of weeks. Try a small shoal of White Cloud Mountain Minnows instead- you could have 4 or 5... Introduce them 2 at a time, leaving the tank for a week inbetween- you shouldn't have any trouble then.


nicely put. 

few things to help you along - 

*never clean filter sponges under the tap... the chlorine in the water is there to kill bacteria and it will wreck your filtration.
*change 25% of the water weekly and replace with tap water that has already been dechlorinated. dont add the new water to the tank and THEN add dechlorinater because by that point the damage has been done. 
*dont over feed... tiny, tiny amounts only.
*test your water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate regularly. if the ammonia is high, do a water change, add a quality live bacterial supplement (personally i trust JBL products most... im not a fan of 'Cycle'). If the nitrite is high it normally suggests lack of bacteria and over feeding and if your nitrate is high you need to do more water changes and probably feed less. if the nitrate is always high no matter what you do, test your tap water... where i used to live it was coming out of the tap at 50ppm which was higher than it ever gets in my tanks...

good luck, i just wish that all shops had to ask the questions that we do in our shop and that people would bother to give out a bit of advice when they sell fish. frankly if no one tells you an animals requirements you cant guess. I always advocate research when buying a new animal but the internet is a mine field when it comes to fish in particular and you'll read ten sites, all giving you very conflicting and often inadequate advice. 

I've got customers with gold fish well into their late teens and koi of even older... if you want something for your kid maybe the minnows would be a better idea if only because they have much much shorter life spans and so are less of a commitment. 

Kat


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Can i ask where i missed the news that says that cycling a filter only takes 10 days? Cycling a filter takes a whole lot longer than that, and leaving a filter running in an empty tank for 10 days will kill off any small amounts of good bacteria that had grown beforehand, because they will have nothing to feed on i.e. waste from fish and uneaten food.

So the advice being given here is basically telling the OP to put a new fish in a completely uncycled tank in 10 days time! Which is basically saying do a Fish-in cycle. If you are going to give advice like this, it is also advisable to inform the op that a fish-in cycle MAY have health implications to any fish due to the Ammonia and nitrIte spikes they will get. Also a fish-in cycle takes longer to fully establish the filter than doing a fishless cycle. 

The only one "cycling" product I have found to work was "Seachem Stability". I have successfully started a 40g marine tank and 4 freshwater tanks with the stuff. It was part of a study i was doing on another forum into the product, and i recorded readings every day and each tank was stocked at different times of the product being used. The last tank i used it on, I stocked on the 2nd day of the tank being set-up. I continued to add the stuff for the instructed time and recorded water stats every day. I never had an ammonia or nitrIte reading at all All these tanks are still running and I have had no problems with them at all.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

pebbles said:


> Yes there is a small filter, no I hadn't let the water cycle (stupid of me but didn't think you had to with gold fish), the tank is just one of those little plastic ones you get from Wilkinsons and no didn't get the water tested. Oh and We got the first one from a *big pet shop/garden centre by me* and the second one with got from a smaller pet shop in my local town


This wouldn't be the holly bush would it? :whistling2:


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## pebbles (Jul 12, 2006)

:gasp: I'm totally shocked by all the advice. Thank you for your replies. Yeah it was the Hollybush.

I feel bad now the poor fish was suffering.

Thanks again


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

daftlassieEmma said:


> aye, but even so it doesn't matter what animal you buy a degree of research prior to purchasing should occur...


Well that is true...:hmm:

What a pity the Trade And Industry Standards Guidelines aren't enforced for LFS. I mean, what other business could employ people without a basic knowledge of what they're actually doing?? :devil:


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

andy007 said:


> Can i ask where i missed the news that says that cycling a filter only takes 10 days? Cycling a filter takes a whole lot longer than that, and leaving a filter running in an empty tank for 10 days will kill off any small amounts of good bacteria that had grown beforehand, because they will have nothing to feed on i.e. waste from fish and uneaten food.
> 
> So the advice being given here is basically telling the OP to put a new fish in a completely uncycled tank in 10 days time! Which is basically saying do a Fish-in cycle. If you are going to give advice like this, it is also advisable to inform the op that a fish-in cycle MAY have health implications to any fish due to the Ammonia and nitrIte spikes they will get. Also a fish-in cycle takes longer to fully establish the filter than doing a fishless cycle.
> 
> The only one "cycling" product I have found to work was "Seachem Stability". I have successfully started a 40g marine tank and 4 freshwater tanks with the stuff. It was part of a study i was doing on another forum into the product, and i recorded readings every day and each tank was stocked at different times of the product being used. The last tank i used it on, I stocked on the 2nd day of the tank being set-up. I continued to add the stuff for the instructed time and recorded water stats every day. I never had an ammonia or nitrIte reading at all All these tanks are still running and I have had no problems with them at all.


Trust- set-up a new tank, with all the decor, plants etc, switch on the filter, leave for a minimum of 10 days, add a few small hardy fish... 1 week later, add a few more. The technique works a treat. You experience small fluctuations in both Ammonia and Nitrite, but it won't creep into the harmful levels, and won't adversely affect hardy fish. There is always residual organic matter in the gravel etc, no matter how thoroughly you rinse it- that will start the cycling process. 

Ok, it may be an old-school method, but its one that has worked for decades, and continues to do so...


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

strictly_scales said:


> Trust- set-up a new tank, with all the decor, plants etc, switch on the filter, leave for a minimum of 10 days, add a few small hardy fish... 1 week later, add a few more. The technique works a treat. You experience small fluctuations in both Ammonia and Nitrite, but it won't creep into the harmful levels, and won't adversely affect hardy fish. There is always residual organic matter in the gravel etc, no matter how thoroughly you rinse it- that will start the cycling process.
> 
> Ok, it may be an old-school method, but its one that has worked for decades, and continues to do so...



Yeh, i know all about fish-in cycling, I did that with my tanks back in the 80's before people realised that it was somewhat cruel. In the way you are saying, why bother waiting 10 days? Dont really see what that will achieve without a food source entering the tank to feed the filter?

But i personally believe it is unethical for a fish shop to advocate using this method. 

In the case of the OP's topic, the tank was virtually new, so there wouldn't have been any beneficial bacteria in the gravel. 

IMO there are two reasons why LFS sell the fish-in method, 1) Lack of knowledge, 2) Because if they advise the customer to fishless cycle, the customer may go elsewhere where they have been told they can add fish sooner.

I just believed the OP deserved to know the possible consequences of fish-in cycling, because not everyone has a good experience and some fish do actually die unnecessarily during the cycle.

Not looking for an argument, but thought that all the facts should be out:2thumb:


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