# cane toad subspecies?



## jorge666 (Apr 6, 2012)

Ok so to the point after seeing the one on display at ihs I want one... It was a monster... much more impressive than a P.adspersus (imo) 

My question is... will any Bufo marinus/Rhinella marina get to the same size as any other or is there anything in the "Surinam cane toad" label people bandy around, as there are plenty of other things which could mislead folk into spending hundreds on something they could buy for a tenth of that price, so is there anything in this does anyone with any knowledge or experience know or is it just a marketing gimmick... and also are the females larger than the males?

Cheers in advance


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

Now here is what I have been told after asking a few people about this as I never seen a normal cane toad get to these huge sizes, only ones lablelled as coming from Surinam. 

I was told that they are all one species (personally not what I think). These ones in Surinam eat a beetle with this beetle eating a plant that contains steroid properties. The toad eats the beetles and also ingests the 'steroids' making it get bigger than others of the same species who do not. 

It seems the females do get larger than the males too. I would love one from a baby and grow it on but obviously if the steroid theory is true then it would only get to normal cane toad size.


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## jorge666 (Apr 6, 2012)

Bradley said:


> Now here is what I have been told after asking a few people about this as I never seen a normal cane toad get to these huge sizes, only ones lablelled as coming from Surinam.
> 
> I was told that they are all one species (personally not what I think). These ones in Surinam eat a beetle with this beetle eating a plant that contains steroid properties. The toad eats the beetles and also ingests the 'steroids' making it get bigger than others of the same species who do not.
> 
> It seems the females do get larger than the males too. I would love one from a baby and grow it on but obviously if the steroid theory is true then it would only get to normal cane toad size.


I know it's only what you've read but surely like bodybuilders the steroid would only make them bigger in mass and muscle not Bone wish and if so only wild caught adults that had eaten these substances would be large? Surely eating that couldn't fundamentally alter their dna and make them permanent giants... 

I remember seeing one picture on this forum of a fairly enormous one eating a carpet python which itself looked large and this must have been in australia


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## Oli P C (Sep 17, 2009)

*Toads*

It's not just Surinam that has the big subspecies! they are also very big Guyana and Trinidad. All of these toads take a longer time to grow than a normal bufo marinus. And I do not believe that is down to diet that make them bigger. Hope that helps


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

Cane toads from any location can get big. 9 inches snout to vent is big and anything above that is really big. I've kept Adult cane toads before, see link here: 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/638032-surinam-toads-african-bullfrogs.html

So I've always had adult cane toads and they were fabulous big toads, however when I saw some from Surinam they were bigger. The biggest one I've seen was a picture that seems to be from Australia, I'm not sure where that invasive species was collected from when it was introduced to Australia, but we can estimate from the picture that it is about 15 inches long. Very big.

The truth is that people have argued over a long period of time about where the biggest toads can be found, but I've never seen anything personally over 9 inches and all the people who bang on about there toads being the biggest, still cannot take a photo WITH A TAPE MEASURE from snout to vent showing the true size. I even offered a thousand pounds for one over a foot long, and despite there being a recession and numerous reptile dealers trying to sell " giant Surinam Cane toads that could reach 15 inches, they had always remarkably been sold before I got there, leaving only your standard sized, common 8 inch specimins. See the link for this here:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/785872-1-000-cash.html


The above £1000 was never collected and all the dealers and people with big stories proved to be bullshitters, No toad over 12 inches and no photo of a toad with a tape measure showing it was 12 inches EVER came forward.

So, I think I agree with Ollie. If you trawl through enough toads in enough places you could find some Giants. But I think a giant could come from anywhere. I see a lot of dealers still selling Giant Surinam toads for 100's of pounds, but never one of nine inches or more. A cane told is only worth money when it becomes a big adult of 9 inches or more. Because if it hasn't yet, it may never ever get big. So don't believe BS get them to get their measuring tape out.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Did you see the ones that were imported from Surinam recently ? They were large. I don't know how long but they weighed the equivalent of a bag of sugar.


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

colinm said:


> Did you see the ones that were imported from Surinam recently ? They were large. I don't know how long but they weighed the equivalent of a bag of sugar.


No, I've not seen them mate.


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

colinm said:


> Did you see the ones that were imported from Surinam recently ? They were large. I don't know how long but they weighed the equivalent of a bag of sugar.


Who brought them in Colin? Is it likely they will show us some clear photos?


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

colinm said:


> Did you see the ones that were imported from Surinam recently ? They were large. I don't know how long but they weighed the equivalent of a bag of sugar.


Are they going around bragging that they've got supertoads that are of unbelievable, never before seen lengths and weights? And they speak of them and show them with the implication that they are fantastical and of supernatural origins, but still they cannot manage an overhead photo with a tape measure running along it's back? 

My nine year old daughter is learning to use measuring techniques at school at the moment, and she and all her classmates appear to have mastered the art of showing clear measurements without forced perspective or ambiguous placement of the animal or the tape measure. 

It's funny that grown men cannot manage it?

It sounds like another example of exaggeration, Charlatanism, and plain old bullshit to me:2thumb: 

Or if it isn't, I'll happily apologize and eat my hat. 

Just show me good pictures with a clear tape measurement.

I've been asking people to prove me wrong for years, and that I'll eat my hat if they can............I still have the same old hat : victory:


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

Uromastyxman said:


> I'm not sure where that invasive species was collected from when it was introduced to Australia


Christopher Lever's "Naturalized Reptiles and Amphibians of the World" says that the ancestors of the Australian toads were collected in Guyana in 1833 and/or French Guiana in 1844. 

They came via introductions in Martinique, Barbados, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii along the way, though, with the ones sent to Australia being collected in Hawaii.


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

Caleb said:


> Christopher Lever's "Naturalized Reptiles and Amphibians of the World" says that the ancestors of the Australian toads were collected in Guyana in 1833 and/or French Guiana in 1844.
> 
> They came via introductions in Martinique, Barbados, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii along the way, though, with the ones sent to Australia being collected in Hawaii.


Cheers Caleb, that's interesting.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

The ones that were imported were indeed large, they sold out pretty quickly to pet shops. I can't honestly such whether they were 9" aor 12". I gave them a cursory glance and handle. Although I wouldn't have been able to afford the food bill. Apparently they were eating a bag of fifty locusts per day. I would say that they were imported I around May.


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## bobo10 (Sep 10, 2010)

*Surinam Marines Toads*

Hi everyone,

Awhile since iv been here, but first thing i noticed was this thread and felt i had to comment.
I think like Humans, Genetics must come into play when talking about size in Species....
You dont see many British Men looking the size of Somoans naturally do you?? I think genetics plays a crucial part but thats just my opinion!!.

Olli and i have had good experience in keeping these Toads both from Surinam, Guyana, and Trinidad!!... All i can say is that YES those parts mentioned have the largest of the Bufo species..Period!!.
Females do get larger than males, by quite alot in fact. 
The mention of steroid thing is BS, its just Genetics in that species combined with a better diet and temperature enables these toads to have a perfect line of growth...

The normal measurements for these toads comes in around 8-9 inch, but every now and then, you will get certain toads that just like certain Humans have great Genetics and surpass those measurements by a large amount!!!.. Iv had 10 inch and 11 inch Surinam Marine toads..... And yes iv seen a guy with a 12 inch Surinam marine toad, measured from vent to snout. But in all honesty iv not seen one that large since!!!...

Hope that clears it up abit 

Cheers

Tom


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