# Help needed!Chameleon...MBD? Weak grip, falling often !! Food strike! :(



## Rubybaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi all,

My name is Jenny and my boyfriend (Joe) and i have a (approx) 10 month old female panther chameleon named Ruby.

I have a few concerns regarding her health if anybody can help it would be greatly appreciated!!

Firstly i will give as much info as i can regarding housing, feeding etc.

Ruby lives in a exo terra glass terrarium 45x45x60 with a mesh roof. 
We moved her into this about 3 weeks ago and before that she was in the smaller size terrarium. She seems to really like it in there so we don't think her move has caused her any problems. 

Ruby is very tame and likes to come out of her house often. She wanders around on the bed, climbs anything she can and sits on us, all very relaxed. We also have a tall madagascar tree which she likes to chill on from time to time. 

Above the cage we have an exo terra spotlight 150 watt raised about 7" but we think this should be 100 watt and lowered a little. We plan on changing it soon but are unsure what is for the best. 

The temp inside cage under the spotlight is around 80-100 degrees depending on the weather outside and household heating. We aren't sure the temp at the bottom of the cage bcos we only have 1 thermometre (obvs we can move this but havent as yet). We also have an exo terra repti glo 5.0 uvb light sat on top and a heatpad on the side.

In the cage there are 3 live plants, 2 fiscus and an umbrella plant, plenty of vine, twigs and walkways for her to climb. We mist 3 times a day (sometimes more to encourage drinking which she rarely does) and we sometimes put a dripper on but she hardly ever uses it. 

Regarding feeding, i now realise we have been a little slack when providing her a variety of things. We have been feeding her only crickets and locusts, using mealworms and the occasional silkworm as treats. 

We dust the food as follows-

Mon- None
Tues- Neutrobal (which has d3)
Wed- None
Thurs- Komodo (brandname) cricket dust
Fri- None
Sat- Neutrobol (d3)
Sun- None 
Mon- Komodo cricket dust

and so on... when we dust the food which is usually about 5 crickets a day, (some days a mixture of crickets and locusts) we use the flat end of a pair of tweezers to get the dust out of the tub, so if u can imagine the dose it is tiny but covers the food adequately (this may sound strange but works well and makes it a smaller dose than a finger pinch which we believe is too much).

We also gutload the crickets with carrot or tomato but being honest i havent done this nearly as often as i should so will be doing this constantly with a wider variety of veg as soon as she is eating again. 


Now to my concerns ! 

About 3 weeks ago Ruby started eating the soil at the bottom of her plant pots so we covered this up and she hasn't had the chance since but now (starting 4 days ago) she is refusing to eat her crickets and is really fussy with the locusts but will still eat mealworms. Joe thinks i have addicted her to the mealworms because i was giving her upto 10 a day as treats (i got a bit carried away!!) and maybe she prefers them so maybe this is why she won't eat anything else? 

We have now stopped giving her the mealworms in the hope she will go back to the crickets and locusts. We plan to give it a few more days.

She is still going the toilet accept yesterday but it is normal for her to miss a day sometimes. Her urate can be slightly orange at times which i know is linked to dehydration but it is hard to get her to drink if she doesnt want to!! 

Also...a few days ago Ruby fell from a height of about 4 foot. She landed on a laminate floor and puffed herself out to cushion her fall. Immediatly her back (along her spine) changed to what i can only describe as fractured black marking. She seemed a little shocked but walked onto my hand and the black faded shortly afterwards. She then seemed to be absolutely fine until i came to turn her lights off when i noticed that either side of her belly was slightly swollen. We assumed this was from the impact of the fall and thankfully she was back to normal the next day.

Now today she was climbing the curtain (i was very cautious with her and put pillows all over the floor) when she fell again! this time it was only from about 1 foot and she landed on the pillow but it made me question her grip which i have thought is a little weak. She also clumsily fell from the edge of the bed onto pillows which is unusual for her. When i looked closely at her arms and legs i realised she is in fact missing a lot of her toenails! she has lost more than she has left! I think this is because when we first got her and also when she was in the shop, she would always climb the mesh ceiling in the cage. She has now stopped doing this bcos she is too big but i think this has definetly caused her to lose her nails. Could this be contributing to her falling?

Then while i was looking online for help i came across a cham with MBD. This cham did not look unhealthy to me and made me question Ruby's health and bones. I have tried to upload a picture before but am not sure how i do this if anyone could tell me that would be great as i am really concerned about her bones now and would love for somebody experienced to take a look at her. Her arms do not seem overly curved to me, they just seem normal compared to other pics of healthy panthers but this picture today has made me doubt my own judgement. 

I think that is everything for now ! Sorry to have written an essay i am just really concerned about my Ruby, really want her to start eating again and to stop falling! 

A little off topic now but does anyone know the average age a female cham becomes gravid with unfertilised eggs? 

Jenny & Joe (parents of Rubybaby!!) :2thumb:


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

if it had been mine that had fallen from that high onto a laminate floor she would of gone to the vet for a xray
saying that everyone is different i am overly protective of my animals
i am far from an expert but the viv size seems small i keep a crested gecko in a viv that size 
my vieled chameleon is in a 3 ft high by 2 ft 6inch square 
as to dusting i dust every feed 5 days calcium and 2 day nutrobal
if she has no toenails this could be part of the problem causeing her to fall however without having her checked over you cant rule out mbd 
my chameleon has mbd and has liquid calcium (zolcal-D) once a week as recommended by vet 
as to gravid in vieled they can become gravid at six months

hope someone with more experience can shed more light and help you

did a bit of searching on panthers Female would ideally be kept in a screen enclosure around 18” x 18” x 3’ tall Finally, it is generally best to keep chameleons individually after they reach sexual maturity at around 12 months old


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## Rubybaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks for replying so quickly! ideally i would have taken her to vet but bcos she seems to have recovered well i wasn't sure if i needed to. We are first time owners and dont have much money but i would find the money if need be because we aren't the kind to risk her health. 

Interesting to hear your technique on feeding and thanks for your opinion regarding her housing. She is quite small so i think she is happy in this terrarium. We will definetly change it if we suspect otherwise. Some days she spends a lot of time (maybe an hour or so) on her madagascar tree or curtain so she gets plenty of climbing opportunities and height. 

Thanks again


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## Rubybaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Here is a pic of Ruby about a month ago... i hope this works


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## bradleymarky (May 20, 2010)

she looks fine in the photo but that was before the fall, take the heat mat its not needed and put the heat bulb and uv on a timer (8am-8pm)

try different things to gutload your crix, cabbage,turnip leaves, kale, cress that kind of thing and dont forget chams eat veg (banana, apple,strawberry and chopped up carrot)

cut down on the nutrobol, once a month is fine and d3 once a fortnight and without d3 every feed (i miss one day a week)
temps should be in the low 80`s and the viv is way too small.

the live plants are good, do you have the bulb on a thermostat and you need a digital thermometer for the temp, overheating will kill her

meal worms are not ideal for chams as they can lead to stomach problems but if you must feed her them give her the white ones

i hope it all goes well, a trip to the vets might be worthwhile


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## Oski1 (Jan 2, 2010)

Hi there, First off that basking bulb is way to higher wattage for that size encloser Imo,

I would try a 40 watt, or a 60watt on a dimmer stat and play about with distances for required temp,

150 watt could be dangerous even at a distance it could a cause thermal burn, even outside the mesh, The mesh conducts heat quickly and heats up even with a 60watt bulb to burning temps. Plus is a waste of electric,

As others said get rid of the heatpad its not needed at all ever. 100 degrees is way to hot, to be honest, you could do with a digital thermostat, to check temps as they are accurate compared to the stick on ones ,My female veiled i keep at low 80's in her basking spot.

I dust all my chams including my panther, 5-6 week just plain calcium, twice a month on a weekend calcium+d3, and now i use Nutrobol once a month that also includes d3 which they can OD on.I think you may be giving to much of this,

Yes Dusting on all foods, should be light and not coating them in dust,

Super worms akaMorio worms are better than meal worms, they are quite a bit bigger but less Chitain content,

I feed mine a variety, as i find they will get bored and like a change which include Locust, crickets, Morio's worms, Dubai roaches, sometimes silkworms, all food is gutloaded with the correct vege/fruit which is important,things like carrot,sweet potatoe,Dandelions greens,Mustard greens, Apple, pear,Sometimes a bit of Romaine lettuce,
There is list somewhere on the web with good gutloads foods i try and find it for you,as they aim to be high calcium to low phos ratios Irrc.

She may be dehydrated to due to to high temp,Try some longer mistings with luke warm water at least twice a day,

She looks a very nice looking cham in that picture.

,Not sure on the falling, but they will slip of things they dont usually climb which are slippery etc,Might be worth a vet visit to check for MBD etc,

My Male Veiled lost a few claws as he was a screen climber, he does not do it as much now, it has caused him no problems so far, Females have larger nails, than the males, How old is her Uv bulb? 

females apparently can cycle eggs as young as 5-6 months, and can cycle unfertile eggs, lower temps, and less food intake can alter this,

My Female Veiled who is about a 11 months old, i feed every other day, about 4-5 feeders, and have her basking set at low 80's on a stat, she has not had any eggs yet, females seem very greedy and will eat and eat and get fat easily, which could make them have huge clutches,

Hope that helps,


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