# Bearded Dragon hasn't moved in 3 days?!



## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

My son's bearded dragon (about 1 year old now), hasn't moved at all in 3 days?! 

He's basically laying with his belly on a stone slab, which we have under the basking light, however, his head is up and alert. He is normally quite active - he normally goes to sleep in a spot under his log and is awake again when we turn on his lights in the morning however, for the last 3 days, he literally has not moved an inch from his stone slab?? 

When we turn off his lights at night, he is in the same position (belly on the slab and head held up towards the ceiling) and then when we turn the lights back on in the morning, he is in EXACTLY the same position - sometimes with his eyes wide open?! 

He seems to be eating normally and also eating his greens though (and also pooping as well - he did 2 poops the other day, one day after another, which he's never done before - it's normally almost a week between poops!) so I guess that's a good thing. 

Any thoughts?


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

Is he moving to eat and returning to the same spot?


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Hi, can you put a few photos up of the whole enclosure (plus the dragon) and give details of the conditions including ambient and surface temps, plus the humidity range and how you measure them? Thanks!


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Satch said:


> Is he moving to eat and returning to the same spot?



NO, he's not moving to eat! He's literally just half lying on the stone slab, with his head held looking up towards the ceiling. He's eating fine - he's being hand fed (he has a bowl with his greens, in front of him on his stone slab).

Its just the fact that he has not moved an inch in the last 3-4 days. 

He normally wonders about his viv and when he goes to sleep, he will go to his sleeping corner and sleeps, whereas now, he is literally just rooted to the same spot day and night.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

murrindindi said:


> Hi, can you put a few photos up of the whole enclosure (plus the dragon) and give details of the conditions including ambient and surface temps, plus the humidity range and how you measure them? Thanks!



...to be honest, I'd rather not post up pics as everyone will start saying, "_...the enclosure looks wrong and you need to change this and that_". 

The query isn't about the enclosure (I've asked for advice on this before on these forums so the temps and stuff to do with his set up, are fine). I'm just a little perplexed as to why he has not moved at all in the last 3-4 days.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

I would stop hand feeding him. If he wants food he'll have to move. Have you double checked your basking spot? If he's not moving from the basking spot it suggests that he isn't getting hot enough temperatures


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

vgorst said:


> I would stop hand feeding him. If he wants food he'll have to move.


I can pretty much guarantee that if we don't hand feed him, he won't eat at all - he's VERY stubborn!




vgorst said:


> Have you double checked your basking spot? If he's not moving from the basking spot it suggests that he isn't getting hot enough temperatures



The basking light/position has been the same for the past 6 month and he's been fine previously, i.e. moving about the viv. Its only the last 3/4 days where he hasn't moved from the slab.

Could it be something to do with him brumating? I've read that 1 year old beardes start to do this ?!!


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

deans6571 said:


> ...to be honest, I'd rather not post up pics as everyone will start saying, "_...the enclosure looks wrong and you need to change this and that_".
> 
> The query isn't about the enclosure (I've asked for advice on this before on these forums so the temps and stuff to do with his set up, are fine). I'm just a little perplexed as to why he has not moved at all in the last 3-4 days.


Well it could well explain it if the setup is wrong. Most issues come down to husbandry, so if people have given you advice on an incorrect setup which you haven't followed that that could well be leading to the problem, if there is one.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

1) Wrong time of year for brumation (Unless your setup is wrong confusing the animal, the temp would have to be way too low and the light cycle too short)

2) Stopping hand feeding will not mean he wont eat (Complete nonsense, no animal will stave themselves if food is available, they have good fat reserves but will move to eat, probably when you arent watching)

3) If he literally hasnt moved from the basking spot for 3 days soild the basking spot temp is NOT high enough, at the very minimum he would end up with his mouth open for hours and would evenutally shuffle to the side.

4) If there is something actually wrong it is pretty much 100% because of something you are doing, which would mean giving full lists of what hes fed, what hes supplemented with, what his temps are and how you measure them, how big the viv is, whats in the viv, what substrate you use, what lights are in there and ANYTHING else you can think of related to how you care for him is about the only way anyone here can help you. Trying to correct your husbandry through offering advise is all that can be done here. The other thing you will need to do is take the animal to a reptile specilist vet if the behaviour continues.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

Looking at the post history of the OP, this is the bearded dragon that is kept in the son's room, you had issues with it not eating properly in the past?


Did you ever move the viv? Did you change it from a glass viv to a wooden one? Are you still using the corn husk as substrate?.

Its quite possible he's swallowed some of that corn husk and it now continually basking in an effort to try and digest the damn stuff.....


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

I don't have the temps to hand so would have to take some readings tonight and post back on here.

With regards to his food and feeding him, he's been a little funny from the start! If we leave his food in his viv (mainly locusts but other stuff as well), they tend to crawl away and beardy doesn't bother going after them (so we remove them again that evening), however, if offered the same food in the hand, he will happily eat the lot.

With regards to the basking light, this was only changed mid February this year, to an Arcadia 75 watt Halogen Basking Spot bulb

Not sure of the make of the UV bulb but this was changed in November.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Azastral said:


> Looking at the post history of the OP, this is the bearded dragon that is kept in the son's room, you had issues with it not eating properly in the past?
> 
> 
> Did you ever move the viv? Did you change it from a glass viv to a wooden one? Are you still using the corn husk as substrate?.
> ...



....yep, you're correct, it is the same beardy. He has indeed been eating normally since I initially posted about his eating issues.

Whilst I appreciate the advice of moving/buying a new/bigger viv, in reality, its not as easy/practical to do so. There are costs involved and space is limited, so no, we haven't managed to change it.

When we left him at the reptile zoo recently, where we bought him (we went away for a week, so had to let them look after him - they offer this service and look after many other lizards), I was actually amazed at how many bearded dragons they had, in enclosures that were smaller than the one we have, and some of these dragons were more than double the size of our one.

Can't remember the size of the viv but its probably stated in some of my other threads.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

It is important to remember that shops are not the "forever home" of the animal and whilst I do not condone smaller setups in shops it is quite common whilst they are temporarily there for sale.


It sounds like you have already had the advice you need in the past. Your dragons setup is totally inappropriate from the sounds of it.

If you are not willing to offer the correct environment then you should either look to re-home it or take it back to the shop and ask them to re-home it.

It is pretty pointless asking for advice, not acting on it and then wondering why you still have problems. 

We all make mistakes - I know I did in the past. I acted on them and did something about it though.

With respect, you don't seem to know anything about the enclosure - If you can't recall basics like the size of the viv and what temperature your basking spot is at then it does say a lot for how it is being cared for. You should question if you REALLY want to try and properly care for this animal or if it is time you looked to offer it a home elsewhere which is more suitable.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

What you will have to remember about those beardies at the reptile zoo is they will be kept the same way as a pet shop, storage space is at a premium and they arent expected to be there long.

It certainly isnt suited for the long term care of the animal.

Its quite possible that he is now expecting to be hand fed, they will become accustomed to certain routines and the longer they go on for the harder they are to break.

With insects, do you use tongs? When he sees these does he perk up and start watching them? If so, you might be able to start coaxing him into moving to get to them, and then into following them about to get insects..

As already mentioned, if he continues to act like a statue i would recommend a vet visit in case there is something causing the lethargy or making him feel like moving is a bad thing for some reason.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

MikeO233 said:


> With respect, you don't seem to know anything about the enclosure - If you can't recall basics like the size of the viv and what temperature your basking spot is at then it does say a lot for how it is being cared for. You should question if you REALLY want to try and properly care for this animal or if it is time you looked to offer it a home elsewhere which is more suitable.



......and with respect, just because I cannot recall temps and size of the viv, how can you say it isn't being cared for properly?

I measure the temps every week and check them against the temps I have been given by 5 star members on here (I have all the figures written down at home) so for you to judge me just because I can't remember these figures, is not really fair..........


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

MikeO233 said:


> It is important to remember that shops are not the "forever home" of the animal and whilst I do not condone smaller setups in shops it is quite common whilst they are temporarily there for sale.
> 
> 
> It sounds like you have already had the advice you need in the past. Your dragons setup is totally inappropriate from the sounds of it.
> ...



A little harsh Mike, but i do understand where you are coming from.
The issue they have with the viv is its in the son's room, who if i remember is autistic?
So its not just a case of expense in buying a new viv and moving it its also trying to factor in the son.
The viv is as big as they could get to go in his room and they have tried to make some changes.
As i said back in that old thread, it really is an issue you will need to tackle, and i would still urge you to try and explain it to yor son as the best thing for his little friend.
I would go and sort out a proper wooden viv and kit it out correctly, set it up in the living room where the son always has access to it and you can also monitor how its running much closer, even if its a case of getting the bits over the space of a couple of months, get the viv nicely furnished with a proper sand/soil substrate and slate stacks etc (which can all be done quite cheap) and lead your son into the whole thing as being the animal getting a nice new house and how happy he will be (you can put a real positive spin on it and i think he will buy into it and accept it) Also, you mention cost, it would be a LOT cheaper in the long run as you wont be faced with anything like a many vets bills if you are providing an ideal habitat. 

Anyway, thats another issue, for now watch the animal closely, if the behaviour continues then its a vet visit


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

If you changed the basking light in Feb the basking temperature could be quite different than when using the previous bulb. Definitely worth double checking. If he's not enthusiastic about food then he could be either too cold, overfed or potentially ill. A normal dragon would be chasing live food down like lightning. I would be tempted to withhold food for a few days and see if that makes a difference.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Azastral said:


> With insects, do you use tongs? When he sees these does he perk up and start watching them? If so, you might be able to start coaxing him into moving to get to them, and then into following them about to get insects..


...my son uses his fingers to hold the insects in front of beardy and yes, he does perk up and goes for them. He'll happily eat stuff out of the hand, its just the fact that if the insects are left on their own, they will just ping away and beardy won't then go after them.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

vgorst said:


> If you changed the basking light in Feb the basking temperature could be quite different than when using the previous bulb. Definitely worth double checking. If he's not enthusiastic about food then he could be either too cold, overfed or potentially ill. A normal dragon would be chasing live food down like lightning. I would be tempted to withhold food for a few days and see if that makes a difference.



...I'll re-check the temps tonight, so thanks.


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

deans6571 said:


> ...to be honest, I'd rather not post up pics as everyone will start saying, "_...the enclosure looks wrong and you need to change this and that_".
> 
> The query isn't about the enclosure (I've asked for advice on this before on these forums so the temps and stuff to do with his set up, are fine). I'm just a little perplexed as to why he has not moved at all in the last 3-4 days.


You can ask people for advice, then not supply the information. Even if you don't want to hear the answers. The fact you won't, makes me think you know it isn't up to scratch. If you went to the doctor and he asked for details about your lifestyle, you couldn't tell, "it's fine doc, but i don't want to go in to that" 

My feeling is, once you take on a pet it is your responsibility to provide it's care. Not provide what is convenient. I appreciate what you are saying about temps. But if you don't know them right now, they could be a problem (not saying they are but it's a good thing to check right away).

Can the lizard move? What would happen if you took him away from his basking area, could he return to his spot? 

You could have anything from a very sick dragon to a lazy sod at the moment.

This isn't supposed to be a personal attack, more a plea.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Satch said:


> You can ask people for advice, then not supply the information. Even if you don't want to hear the answers. The fact you won't, makes me think you know it isn't up to scratch. If you went to the doctor and he asked for details about your lifestyle, you couldn't tell, "it's fine doc, but i don't want to go in to that"


...yes, you're correct, it isn't up to scratch according to the posters on here, however, its VERY difficult for me to know what is correct and what is incorrect as I am getting conflicting info. Some members state my set up isn't correct however, according to the reptile zoo where we bought him, our set up is fine. I'm not here to say who is right and who is wrong but you can see why I am reluctant to make EVERY change which has been suggested. I have made some changes based upon what has been advised here.



Satch said:


> I appreciate what you are saying about temps. But if you don't know them right now, they could be a problem (not saying they are but it's a good thing to check right away).


I check these once a week (and they are fine), normally at the weekends , when I don't work - how could I possibly know then right now, this minute?!

Like I said, all I can do is check them tonight when I get home.



Satch said:


> Can the lizard move? What would happen if you took him away from his basking area, could he return to his spot?


Haven't actually tried this but I see no reason that he would not be able to return to his spot. He's been fine for quite a while (he only stopped eating at one point but then resumed again) - he normally wonders around his viv, its only literally the last 3/4 days that he has been rooted to the spot (only dropping his head onto the slab when he sleeps, and then holding it up again, when he wakes).

I will have to check these things tonight when I get home, and report back later.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Hi, a few photos may well help us help YOU help your dragon which is what we are all trying to do.
I can only suggest if you cannot upgrade or improve the present enclosure you seriously consider rehoming the animal before it suffers serious health problems (hopefully that isn`t yet the case).


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

deans6571 said:


> ...yes, you're correct, it isn't up to scratch according to the posters on here, however, its VERY difficult for me to know what is correct and what is incorrect as I am getting conflicting info. Some members state my set up isn't correct however, according to the reptile zoo where we bought him, our set up is fine. I'm not here to say who is right and who is wrong but you can see why I am reluctant to make EVERY change which has been suggested. I have made some changes based upon what has been advised here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I appreciate there is conflicting info. But reptile shops are notorious for giving out poor advice sadly. There are a few posters on here that agree on a lot of things and i'd follow them. The person above is one. 

Obviously you don't know the temp this instant, but you should have a good idea, really it shouldn't be fluctuating too much. 

Definitely see how he responds to being moved. it will tell a lot about how he's doing. 

I'm sure you can appreciate that whilst it's difficult enough to offer advice over the net (and should always be caveated) with the full facts, there is absolutely nothing we can do with out the info. Likewise be prepared that if you share that info people may well suggest changes. This isn't to feel superior but for the best interests of the animal. 

I know you've got no intention of being cruel and believe you are acting on good advice, but there is always the chance that isn't the case.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

As Satch has said, you would be shocked by just how poor the advice from many "reptile specialist" pet stores can be, is this reptile zoo a pet shop or an actual zoo?

Also, is the advice from an attendant or from an actual specialist employed by the zoo with significant knowledge of the animal?

The good thing about this site is theres a lot of people with a lot of experience, many of them checking what each of the others says and often raising issues they might not agree with, you also have people like arcadiajohn who is a known expert with reptiles and also breeders on here.

It was all raised as an issue of concern with your previous post in terms of the viv and a set of things that needed changing, and i am sure you remember that and if you cant that post is still there for you to re-read.
Its here if you cant find it: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/1091361-bearded-dragon-stopped-eating.html 

I hope in the very least that the corn husk is gone and has been replaced with a suitable substrate. I seem to remember you saying the UV bulbs were Exoterra in the old post, if they are, be aware that november is roughly six months ago and they will need replacing, also be aware that they will likely be T8 and have a very limited range, so switching brands to a better quality is advisable, even if you cant afford to switch to T5.
In either case, if you havent got a reflector already i strongly advice it. 

I would do as suggested, try moving him and see how he reacts.
Many illnesses with beardies can take time to show, and theres a wide variety of symptoms or signs, so as i have mentioned, if his behaviour continues it really is a vet, and a retile specialist vet, that you need to take him to for a proper check.

One thing that you will find pretty much all of us agreeing on is that the habitat needs to be right, and that in a lot of cases a poor habitat can cause all sorts of issues. Correcting that habitat can only have a positive impact, and hopefully, theres nothing more serious that also needs addressing.

But if there is, persisting with a poorly set up habitat is very likely to make things worse.


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## JoPwerks (Mar 15, 2012)

Hi, what about having his poop tested? Parasites and infections are common and can affect them in this way?

Just a thought as I had mine tested recently and he had high count of pinworms and coccidia, so glad I sent my sample.

I'm not an expert just thought it was worth mentioning.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Azastral said:


> As Satch has said, you would be shocked by just how poor the advice from many "reptile specialist" pet stores can be, is this reptile zoo a pet shop or an actual zoo?
> 
> Also, is the advice from an attendant or from an actual specialist employed by the zoo with significant knowledge of the animal?
> 
> ...


Thanks for this it is really appreciated. 

Firstly, the temps - I checked these tonight with an infra-red gun and they are all within the correct ranges. I measured the cool end, the mid section, the warm end and also the basking area, and they all fall within the ranges that have been given to me in one of my other threads (think it was actually by yourself Azastral).

I checked the UV bulb and it is still the same Exo Terra build (25w) so I will go about changing this for an Arcadia one (I have a reflector already). 

Beardy actually moved about tonight - he moved to his normal sleeping position (the corner of the viv just underneath his log). He ate 3 locusts and some meal worms this afternoon + ate all his greens today (which he's been doing every day lately).


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

Just a quick suggestion & nothing to do with set-up, temps etc but since he hasn't moved have you picked up & moved him, if so does he return to his original position or does he just sit where you put him. I'm actually thinking along the line is he injured rather than ill. Not making any accusations, just asking the question, is it possible he has been handled & dropped/fell & is suffering from paralysis, broken bone etc. Hopefully the answer is no but it seems very unusual that a critter can have such a good appetite but refuse to move if all his temps etc are good.

Just a thought but worth eliminating.


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Khonsu said:


> Just a quick suggestion & nothing to do with set-up, temps etc but since he hasn't moved have you picked up & moved him, if so does he return to his original position or does he just sit where you put him. I'm actually thinking along the line is he injured rather than ill. Not making any accusations, just asking the question, is it possible he has been handled & dropped/fell & is suffering from paralysis, broken bone etc. Hopefully the answer is no but it seems very unusual that a critter can have such a good appetite but refuse to move if all his temps etc are good.
> 
> Just a thought but worth eliminating.



...he's been moving about today as per normal. Last night he slept in his usual spot (away from the slab) so he looks to be back to normal (he's also eating and drinking well).


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## deans6571 (Aug 27, 2015)

Azastral said:


> As Satch has said, you would be shocked by just how poor the advice from many "reptile specialist" pet stores can be, is this reptile zoo a pet shop or an actual zoo?


..its an actual reptile zoo which sells fish and many other lizards. They also have a separate dedicated section where they look after animals when their owners are away.

This is their website: Welcome to Beaver Water World




Azastral said:


> Also, is the advice from an attendant or from an actual specialist employed by the zoo with significant knowledge of the animal?


..it was advice given to us by the people looking after the animals when the owners are away.


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## **louise** (Nov 10, 2010)

deans6571 said:


> ..its an actual reptile zoo which sells fish and many other lizards. They also have a separate dedicated section where they look after animals when their owners are away.
> 
> This is their website: Welcome to Beaver Water World
> 
> ...


That place is just down the road from me.. You might be from my neck of the woods! I've never been so can't comment form my own experience but I do know a few people who have been given some 'iffy' advice from them :whistling2: 

Quoted from their website:



> We cannot be responsible for the advice given by the shop owners, as their idea of animal care is not necessarily consistant with ours


Also, they are not a zoo! They are a registered charity which also tries to rehome animals. So as already mentioned, many of their enclosures are not considered permanent and even if they are, as a charity, I suspect they struggle at times to buy the biggest and best enclosures for all the animals they get dumped on them.

Sorry if I missed it in the thread but what is the actual surface temp of the basking spot? It sounds like it's too low. That would explain the prolonged basking. The dragon should only spend a little while at a time under the lamp and move away once they need to cool down again. To spend that long under the lamp, without constantly mouth gaping, would suggest the temps are not high enough.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh no, I've been to beaver water world as it's not far from me either. I've never seen so much MBD and inappropriate cohabiting of species. To me, that place is not a rescue (or at least not when I went), most of their animals should have been put out of their misery instead of being out on display.


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

I find it hard to understand why you seem reluctant to post pics of the set up and provide temperature info. Yes people will pick the set up apart and let you know what needs changing
.. This is a GOOD thing. 
Most illness in reptiles is caused by the set up not being correct. I don't know what advice you were given in the past so I won't tell you to go with it. However please post pics and info about the set up so that we can help.you get your dragon set up correctly.

If he hasn't moved from his basking spot then it isn't hot enough.. It should be around 110f surface temperature, just to offer a ball park area. The fact that the behaviour has only just started doesn't mean that there wasn't a problem before hand.

I have a person rule that I follow with my animals. If I would be ashamed about showing the enclosure to a knowledgeable person for any reason then obviously I know it isn't good enough.
It is in the animals interests that I say the following. If someone is unable or unwilling to get the animal into an appropriate set up and take time to check that everything is right then it needs to be rehomed.
They rely on us for EVERYTHING that they need to survive and be healthy. It's our job to give it to them. 
Where abouts are you?maybe someone local could help you get it sorted ? These things can be a headache if you aren't sure.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

I just read the last page qhichbi skimmed previously and saw that you said the temps were checked and within the proper ranges. Do you mind telling g what those ranges are?

Cool end and basking surface temperature would be great.
I know it seems that everyone is jumping on you. That's isn't my intention. It's just that you seem almost like you don't actually want the help being offered.

BTW I'd take the advice of knowledgeable keepers on this forum over ANY pet shop every time nothing beats experience in keeping these animals and open discussion about how we all do things which is exactly.what is on tap to you right now.

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## jamoo1992 (Apr 16, 2016)

Why bother even trying to help this sod when they wont even give us enough information nor can they be bothered to go and check temps and give actual precise measurements.. Catch a grip lady. If you want information stop being so vague about every single thing and take some responsibility for your animals thanks. 

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