# Forget all other dog collars!



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Just used my new illusion dog collar,designed by Cesar Milan.

It is absolutely great! I have so much control when walking,no pulling or anything.

I Would recommend it to anyone with pulling problems or not having enough control on the walk.

John.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

we stopped our dog pulling in minutes, by using the method that they use on dog borstal, she was really bad before as well.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

I love ceasar and would never slate him but sorry you'll never top the halti!! I can control my rottie a dog so powerful he could pull me around all day on just one finger.

Marina


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Marinam2 said:


> I love ceasar and would never slate him but sorry you'll never top the halti!! I can control my rottie a dog so powerful he could pull me around all day on just one finger.
> 
> Marina


agreed.


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Marinam2 said:


> I love ceasar and would never slate him but sorry you'll never top the halti!! I can control my rottie a dog so powerful he could pull me around all day on just one finger.
> 
> Marina


I have tried everything apart from the halti to be honest,never thought it would fit her muzzle properly. Now i have the illusion collar i wont be trying anything else lol.

John


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Am a huge fan of the halti! Tis funny, cuz I remember when I was a kid, my dad made a harness like a halti for our dog... And it worked brilliantly! Am pretty sure he made that BEFORE the halti came out... If only he'd had it patented, eh?


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

For the Great Danes we have a Dog-o-matic. Its really good, it looks more like a horses headcollar than a halti but its the same thing, gives you control of the head. I wouldnt be without it now, especially when theyre about 6-8 months, thats usually the most trying time, when they try pushing their luck and like to use their size to their advantage. :lol2:


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

daikenkai said:


> For the Great Danes we have a Dog-o-matic. Its really good, it looks more like a horses headcollar than a halti but its the same thing, gives you control of the head. I wouldnt be without it now, especially when theyre about 6-8 months, thats usually the most trying time, when they try pushing their luck and like to use their size to their advantage. :lol2:


Thats what my ABD has been trying for the past couple of months. I have tried all sorts of collars and also a harness but she just pulls against that. I also don't like chokers.

This illusion is great.

John


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Mephitis said:


> Thats what my ABD has been trying for the past couple of months. I have tried all sorts of collars and also a harness but she just pulls against that. I also don't like chokers.
> 
> This illusion is great.
> 
> John


glad its work Caesar is great I have always wondered how good the collars are, you will have to get some pic's :2thumb:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

What are these collars what do they look like ?


i use the haltis for mine when they are giddy i swear by them


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> glad its work Caesar is great I have always wondered how good the collars are, you will have to get some pic's :2thumb:


To be honest they look a bit daft,as do the halti in my opinion but they work great lol.

John


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Mephitis said:


> To be honest they look a bit daft,as do the halti in my opinion but they work great lol.
> 
> John


do you have a pic of what they look like john?


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> do you have a pic of what they look like john?


No Emma I'm not on my usual computer so cant get the pics on. I haven't took any pics of her with it on but if you type it into google it comes up.

John.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Mephitis said:


> No Emma I'm not on my usual computer so cant get the pics on. I haven't took any pics of her with it on but if you type it into google it comes up.
> 
> John.


 
okies cool no worries will have a go with google : victory:

thankies anyways : victory:


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> okies cool no worries will have a go with google : victory:
> 
> thankies anyways : victory:


No probs.

John


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

WOW its like fort knox that collar lol :lol2:


im warey of the ones that pull round the neck or throat though.........have known alot of damage be done to huskies an mals with choke chains an such 

thats why i tend to go with the haltis as its the face you have control over rather than something you tighten round the neck 


Is the pull to the neck like that of a choker john ? 


sorry just your best person to ask lol you have physically used one on your dog 

i will ply you with questions now :lol2::lol2:

as im always up for something to help with the pull i dont want to stop mine as its what they were bred to do i just want to control it 

if that makes any sense :lol2:


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

me and my dog dont get on with the halti, defeted the object of pulling, he would NOT move atall

then got a propper staffy harness and no probs since!. 

but i do like the idea of these collars!


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

http://www.supercoolpets.com/pictures/dogillusion.jpg

thats the collar


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

I have tried both the halti harness & head collar on my Dane but neither stopped him pulling. The one I ended up with was the canny collar. This seems to work fine other than he is a crafty sod & worked out if he walks backwards or stops while resting his muzzle against my thigh, he can pull the restraining part off his face :devil::devil::devil:

Oh & the other thing he did was put his head between my legs & then walk backwards.......pretty clever for a blind dog :lol2::lol2:

Its a shame some larger pet shops don't have collars you can try out before buying as its cost me a fortune (even though I get most at trade prices) in getting various harnesses/collars


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Marinam2 said:


> I love ceasar and would never slate him but sorry you'll never top the halti!! I can control my rottie a dog so powerful he could pull me around all day on just one finger.
> 
> Marina


 When I had my giant schnauzer, I put a halti on her and she was still able to pull me as she had such strong neck muscles. What worked for me was the lupi harness. I could hold 45kg Harley the giant schnauzer, 35kg Kip the collie cross and 30kg Urian the lurcher all one one finger.


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

Hmmmm sounds like I need to try one of these, Faith pulls like a steam train even a dog trainer gave up on her lol :whip:
I use a no pull harness atm but dont help very much... so now I have a staffy that pulls forwards.. and a rottweiller that stops to sniff EVERYTHING... needless to say walks dont get very far without two people lol


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## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

I didn't think you could get these in the UK, Me and mom have been looking everywhere for these...


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

From his website:


> *WARNING: If your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or your dog weighs less than 18 lbs, you should NOT use the collar. The Illusion collar is not intended for puppies under one year of age. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. Consult your local professional or veterinarian for further advice.*




Since it comes with a health warning I don't think I will be encouraging anyone to rush out and buy one.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> From his website:
> 
> 
> Since it comes with a health warning I don't think I will be encouraging anyone to rush out and buy one.


 
woah i dint see that i dont think i will bother with that like i said i dont like the idea of something tightening around their necks


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

Evie said:


> From his website:
> 
> 
> Since it comes with a health warning I don't think I will be encouraging anyone to rush out and buy one.


Blimey where was that? didnt see it!... must be going blind in me old age :whip: I think ill go for a halti instead


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> woah i dint see that i dont think i will bother with that like i said i dont like the idea of something tightening around their necks


Yep Emma, it's at the bottom of the page. Then in the sizing chart it refers to Standard Poodles and Dobes - slender necks much????? :bash:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> Yep Emma, it's at the bottom of the page. Then in the sizing chart it refers to Standard Poodles and Dobes - slender necks much????? :bash:


 
Hmmmmm well i definately wont be putting one of them round any of my dogs throats :bash:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Evie said:


> From his website:
> 
> 
> Since it comes with a health warning I don't think I will be encouraging anyone to rush out and buy one.


 Yet throttle chains come with no warnings yet they do great damage.
At least they come with a warning and instruction. Personally I'd want to see one before I passed judgement on them. Mind you, my lot now don't pull anyway.


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## harriet1996 (Sep 14, 2008)

Ive always used halti's or gentle leaders and they work fine. Personally I wouldnt use one of the cesar milan collars, they look like torture.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Yet throttle chains come with no warnings yet they do great damage.
> At least they come with a warning and instruction. Personally I'd want to see one before I passed judgement on them. Mind you, my lot now don't pull anyway.


I wouldn't encourage the use of choke chains either, and it is to his credit that the warning is there. I do think it is contradictory however, to say don't use on dogs with long slender necks and then include such breeds in the sizing chart. 
Since I don't like choke collars, and this device seems to be designed to be used with one, I can't see me changing my mind to be honest.

I think it is called Illusion because it masks the behaviour and would give the casual observer the illusion that the dog is well trained :lol2:


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## Vicky12 (Apr 12, 2008)

harriet1996 said:


> Ive always used halti's or gentle leaders and they work fine. Personally I wouldnt use one of the cesar milan collars, they look like torture.


 
Oops this was my post not Harriets :blush::blush:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I think I will stick with the halti (yes another halti fan here). That illusion collar looks awful.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

nuttybabez said:


> I think I will stick with the halti (yes another halti fan here). That illusion collar looks awful.


 
looks like a form of bondage for dogs :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

By "pushed-in faces" do you think my friend Mr Milan means brachychephalic breeds???

:lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> looks like a form of bondage for dogs :lol2:


I think I will invent a straight jacket for dogs who have separation anxiety - it will be just like being hugged all day :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I wouldn't use anything Milan designed TBH. I watched his programme earlier & 2 of the 3 dogs featured were 'trained' with pinch collars. Also, he was doing some sneaky kicking of the dogs! :devil:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Most people should know that using any forum of collar that tightens around the neck like choke chains can do your dogs neck and throat allot of damage. Seriously not worth the risk in the long term.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> I think I will invent a straight jacket for dogs who have separation anxiety - it will be just like being hugged all day :lol2:


 
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Evie i think they would go down a treat your onto something there haha 



Zoo-Man said:


> I wouldn't use anything Milan designed TBH. I watched his programme earlier & 2 of the 3 dogs featured were 'trained' with pinch collars. Also, he was doing some sneaky kicking of the dogs! :devil:


 
I cant say i completely dislike the guy but some of his methods i do 

i do think some of what he does is good


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Zoo-man seriously if you have nothing nice to say. I wouldnt mind but you clearly havent watched the programme properly because i have told you before ceasar encourages the owners to use what they would use NORMALLY. He doesnt advocate the pinch collars.

He also DOESN'T kick or advocate kicking or punishment of any sorts!!

Marina


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Marinam2 said:


> Zoo-man seriously if you have nothing nice to say. I wouldnt mind but you clearly havent watched the programme properly because i have told you before ceasar encourages the owners to use what they would use NORMALLY. He doesnt advocate the pinch collars.
> 
> He also DOESN'T kick or advocate kicking or punishment of any sorts!!
> 
> Marina


Well in that case Marina, he should tell the owners to ditch the pinch collar! Any dog trainer who advocates the use of such collars are out-dated & it is taking us back to the Barbara Woodhouse years. I tell customers at work who say their dog trainer told them to come & buy a choke chain to find a new trainer!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

And how the hell could I not watch the programme properly???


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> I tell customers at work who say their dog trainer told them to come & buy a choke chain to find a new trainer!


I agree but like i said all he does is encourage owners to carry on as if everything was normal.

Marina


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Marinam2 said:


> Zoo-man seriously if you have nothing nice to say. I wouldnt mind but you clearly havent watched the programme properly because i have told you before ceasar encourages the owners to use what they would use NORMALLY. He doesnt advocate the pinch collars.
> 
> He also DOESN'T kick or advocate kicking or punishment of any sorts!!
> 
> Marina


The guy is clearly an effective dog trainer BUT he really should be more responsible about using such potentially dangerous equipment on TV. Whatever your opinion is about such equipment, it has to be recognised that his program is watched by people who are impressionable and might well go out and attempt to use equipment that they are unqualified to use with any degree of safety to the detriment of the animal involved.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> The guy is clearly an effective dog trainer BUT he really should be more responsible about using such potentially dangerous equipment on TV. Whatever your opinion is about such equipment, it has to be recognised that his program is watched by people who are impressionable and might well go out and attempt to use equipment that they are unqualified to use with any degree of safety to the detriment of the animal involved.


 
Yips i totally agree on that i watched one of his programmes and he was using a shock collar on a dog


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> And how the hell could I not watch the programme properly???


Must be the glasses Zooey:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> Must be the glasses Zooey:lol2:


 
I have to say it i doooooooooooo


he should have gone to specsavers :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2::lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

:lol2: @ Evie & Emma!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> I have to say it i doooooooooooo
> 
> 
> he should have gone to specsavers :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2::lol2:


:lol2: :lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> :lol2: :lol2:


 
have you seen the new advert where the farmer shears his working collie :lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> have you seen the new advert where the farmer shears his working collie :lol2::lol2::lol2:


Yea it is hilarious! Dog looks soooo embarrassed :lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> Yea it is hilarious! Dog looks soooo embarrassed :lol2:


 
LOL i know i creased myself laughing watching it :blush:


i so need to get out more haha :blush:


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

Evie said:


> The guy is clearly an effective dog trainer BUT he really should be more responsible about using such potentially dangerous equipment on TV. Whatever your opinion is about such equipment, it has to be recognised that his program is watched by people who are impressionable and might well go out and attempt to use equipment that they are unqualified to use with any degree of safety to the detriment of the animal involved.


Exactly!!!
any good tool can become cruelty if it isnt used how it is supposed to be used. the choke chain for instance is not supposed to be used to yank at a dogs neck and strangle them into submission, used properly the choke chain is supposed to gently tighten around the dogs neck giving the impression of a dominant dog holding it in place, i used a dual collar system with my late GSD she was an ex-guard dog and very head strong. One collar was a flat collar and the other was a choke chain, and yes they were each attached to seperate leads, the lead attached to the flat collar was the primary lead and the lead attached to the choke chain was the secondary lead. in a situation where the dog "flipped" or was working the primary lead would hold her in pkace and the secondary would tighten the choke chain, only slightly more than the flat collar this would immediately cause the dog to calm and withdraw to a beta position rather than asserting into an alpha role.
the collar that ive seen designed by ceaser millan seems nothing more than the dual collar system combined into one, although im not sure how effective this would be as you do not have independance of either collar.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Evie said:


> I think I will invent a straight jacket for dogs who have separation anxiety - it will be just like being hugged all day :lol2:


They already do a similar one called a dog wrap its meant to make them feel secure


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> I wouldn't use anything Milan designed TBH. I watched his programme earlier & 2 of the 3 dogs featured were 'trained' with pinch collars. Also, he was doing some sneaky kicking of the dogs! :devil:


 Do you have experience of pinch collars? I personally don't like the idea of them but they are used all over the world. I used one in Germans on a particularly stubborn GSD. Those spikes are blunt not pointed and all they do literally is tweak the skin in a nip or pinch, not causing actual pain but certainly making it uncomfortable. Also, just because part of a foot connects with a dog, that doesn't make it a kick. If I shove one of the dogs out of the way with my foot because I have both arms full of hay for the goats and need to move one of the little dogs or stand on it, does that mean I have kicked it? A shove with the hand mean I slapped it?
I have never seen him kick a dog and I've watched most of his programmes. He does a shove with his foot behind him. That isn't a kick, it is redirecting a dog's attention from some behaviour which is being corrected so, if the dog in question wants to kill other dogs when out walking, Cesar gets the dog to sit and face another dog,before the behaviour turns into outright attack, he will backwards nudge the dog to make it turn it's attention to whatever touched its rump, and way from the other dog, so that Cesar can get it's full attention on him.
Personally, I dislike haltis, having had noses rubbed by then, one actually made a groove or lesion on a dog's face and one GSD caught it's eye with a dew claw as it panicked and struggled to get it off.
I'll try just about anything so at least if I have an opinion, it will be based on experience and not denigrated simply because I don't like the idea or the look of something.
I would be very interested in the Illusion collar (I think it's actually named after his wife) and like to see how it worked. Not that any of mine pull, they wouldn't dream of pulling pack leader as that shows the height of disrespect for me.
I have in the past used the Lupi harness and been delighted with how it worked. In fact I used to sell them on the market years ago but letting dog owners put one on their dog and walk it around the market. Told them that they could buy it if they found it worked and just return it if it didn't. Everyone who tried it, bought it.
One chap had a huge strong staffie and when he looked at the lupi, said that there is no way that little bit of cord could stop his dog from pulling. I put it on the dog and told him to come back in half an hour when he's been round the market. Came back with egg on his face and bought it. He said he still didn't see how it worked but it worked. He too had tried the Halti and had problems with it cutting into the eyes of his dog who, like my giant schnauzer, was still able to pull with it on.


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

have to say, I completely agree with Fenwoman here. Halti prevents a certain kind of behaviour because it makes it physically impossible, it does not correct it like this new collar aims to aid you in doing. Take the halti off the animal and you still have the problem. As for the warning written on it, that is to prevent litigation because there is a tendancy to be sued for anything in the states, he's covering his back. Also what's wrong with putting guidelines on a product to make sure it's used properly??? As for the collar looking funny, with haltis people can mistake your dog as aggressive because it appears to be wearing a muzzle.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

missk said:


> have to say, I completely agree with Fenwoman here. Halti prevents a certain kind of behaviour because it makes it physically impossible, it does not correct it like this new collar aims to aid you in doing. Take the halti off the animal and you still have the problem. As for the warning written on it, that is to prevent litigation because there is a tendancy to be sued for anything in the states, he's covering his back. Also what's wrong with putting guidelines on a product to make sure it's used properly??? As for the collar looking funny, with haltis people can mistake your dog as aggressive because it appears to be wearing a muzzle.


 
I have never had a problem with haltis cutting in and i dont want to stop my dogs from pulling not the huskies as thats what they were bred to do i just want control in places such as by roads an in danger zones...............when im out of them zones the haltis come off an the long leads go on 

so not everyone wants them for the same purpose 

But i agree with what fenwoman has said if these lets call them contraptions are not used properly then yes they can cause damage to the animal they are being used on 

I also a agree with what she said about moving dogs about..............having a large pack an being used to having alot of dogs its automatic to use your legs and feet sometimes to manoover dogs about as i use this technique too 

never would i kick one of my dogs i just simpley use my feet an legs to guide them to where i want them to be...............


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

The illusion collar works great to those of you who wanted to know. You cannot buy them over here yet as i bought mine from his website.

It is designed like a slip lead at the top and the rest of it is support for the dogs neck so people don't yank there dogs all over the place, and its also for control.

Also as far as Cesar's techniques,he does not kick and hit dogs as some people think. If the programme is watched and understood properly the technique he uses with his heal is to get the dogs attention when it is being aggressive. Its not a kick more a nudge so the dog responds.

John.


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> I have never had a problem with haltis cutting in and i dont want to stop my dogs from pulling not the huskies as thats what they were bred to do i just want control in places such as by roads an in danger zones...............when im out of them zones the haltis come off an the long leads go on
> 
> so not everyone wants them for the same purpose
> 
> ...


The illusion collar has the two main straps which are for support for the dogs neck,the top of the collar is like a slip lead which is only used for correction so the pulling around the dogs neck is not like the chokers.

I have to say Emma it is the best collar i have used.

John.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Im pretty interested john as fenwoman is too 


will have to look into even if to try out only i mean end of the day cant hurt to try it hey :lol2:


I have never once seen mr milan himself kick or hit a dog either as i said having 11 dogs here youngest being 9wks i often have to use my legs an feet as well as arms to manoover about lol 

i think he is very successful in what he does though some of his ideas i wouldnt use myself 

but you cant doubt he is a successfull trainer


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

missk said:


> Halti prevents a certain kind of behaviour because it makes it physically impossible



Both my dogs wear haltis whilst walking. My rottie used to pull and since using it he doesnt pull any more. There was no hoo har about getting accustomed to it. It doesnt stop him doing anything but pulling he can still sniff the floor and trees and a bushes and other dogs if i choose to let him. He walks on a slack lead.

My bitch on the other hand didnt take to it quite so well and even now when she is let off for a good run the halti has to come off too otherwise she just rubs her face all over the floor.
She walks like an angel with it in though although i didn't have an issue with her pulling i just feel more in control when she wears it.

Marina


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## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

*Halti*

When we had our Pyrenean Mountain Dog he was six month old and pulled like a train,i really struggled to hold him and i'm 17 stone in weight and 6 foot 3 tall
I bought a Halti as reccomended by our Vet and it stopped him dead in his tracks and i would reccomend them to anyone


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

Mephitis did you buy this for your american bulldog?? I have an abd and we just recently got her a halti but it was rubbing her nose so ive only used it twice. What size did you get, large?? I might have to try one.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Do you have experience of pinch collars? I personally don't like the idea of them but they are used all over the world. I used one in Germans on a particularly stubborn GSD. Those spikes are blunt not pointed and all they do literally is tweak the skin in a nip or pinch, not causing actual pain but certainly making it uncomfortable. Also, just because part of a foot connects with a dog, that doesn't make it a kick. If I shove one of the dogs out of the way with my foot because I have both arms full of hay for the goats and need to move one of the little dogs or stand on it, does that mean I have kicked it? A shove with the hand mean I slapped it?
> I have never seen him kick a dog and I've watched most of his programmes. He does a shove with his foot behind him. That isn't a kick, it is redirecting a dog's attention from some behaviour which is being corrected so, if the dog in question wants to kill other dogs when out walking, Cesar gets the dog to sit and face another dog,before the behaviour turns into outright attack, he will backwards nudge the dog to make it turn it's attention to whatever touched its rump, and way from the other dog, so that Cesar can get it's full attention on him.
> Personally, I dislike haltis, having had noses rubbed by then, one actually made a groove or lesion on a dog's face and one GSD caught it's eye with a dew claw as it panicked and struggled to get it off.
> I'll try just about anything so at least if I have an opinion, it will be based on experience and not denigrated simply because I don't like the idea or the look of something.
> ...


No I don't have experience of pinch collars Fenny, but the name & look of them says it all. And to me, by pinching or nipping the dog's skin, that is quite cruel. 

You could be right about the use of foot to 'tap' the dog's bum, but my dislike of Mr Milan probably made it look to me that it was a harder 'tap'.

God Fenny, you are very trusting aren't you!!! Letting people put a Lupi harness on their dogs & walking round town for half an hour before coming back & buying it!!! Didn't anyone buggar off with the Lupi? hehe


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mephitis said:


> The illusion collar has the two main straps which are for support for the dogs neck,the top of the collar is like a slip lead which is only used for correction so the pulling around the dogs neck is not like the chokers.
> 
> I have to say Emma it is the best collar i have used.
> 
> John.


Why does a dog's neck need support??? Last time I looked, most dogs are perfectly able to support their own necks! :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If you google this collar it says the straps are to support the top slip lead and stop it slippind down as it will make it ineffective.

Emma hun who is the 9 week old puppy you have. You kept that one quiet:whistling2:Only just realised you now have the same amount of dogs as me:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> If you google this collar it says the straps are to support the top slip lead and stop it slippind down as it will make it ineffective.
> 
> Emma hun who is the 9 week old puppy you have. You kept that one quiet:whistling2:Only just realised you now have the same amount of dogs as me:lol2:


 
LOL shell there are 3 that age :whistling2:


you know that thread in classifieds Puppies!! lol 

well i have some of nery's pups here :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Aaah bless, you keeping them or are they for rehome:whistling2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Aaah bless, you keeping them or are they for rehome:whistling2:


 
1 lil man is definately mine 

but the other 1 maybe 2 need homes :lol2:


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Why does a dog's neck need support??? Last time I looked, most dogs are perfectly able to support their own necks! :lol2:


Haha your funny..........

If you are just using a standard collar or choker,slip lead and so on you see people yanking at there dogs and pulling them all over the place,i doubt this can be good for the dogs neck?

John.


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

groovy chick said:


> Mephitis did you buy this for your american bulldog?? I have an abd and we just recently got her a halti but it was rubbing her nose so ive only used it twice. What size did you get, large?? I might have to try one.


Yes i bought it for the ABD as the others are older now and do not pull anymore.

Yes i bought the large size for her and it fits great.I bought it new from ebay,it took around a week to arrive from the states.

John.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Mephitis said:


> Haha your funny..........
> 
> If you are just using a standard collar or choker,slip lead and so on you see people yanking at there dogs and pulling them all over the place,i doubt this can be good for the dogs neck?
> 
> John.


What makes you think that people won't yank dogs around on the Illusion collar?


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Evie said:


> What makes you think that people won't yank dogs around on the Illusion collar?


I don't remember saying that i thought people would not yank there dogs around on the illusion collar?

I said.. that the illusion collar gives more support to the dogs neck.

John.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Mephitis said:


> I don't remember saying that i thought people would not yank there dogs around on the illusion collar?
> 
> I said.. that the illusion collar gives more support to the dogs neck.
> 
> John.


I think you will find the collar is designed to hold the slip part at the top of the neck where it is most sensitive and most likely to cause damaged in the event of a big jerk on the end of the lead.


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## Reaper941 (Mar 21, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> No I don't have experience of pinch collars Fenny, but the name & look of them says it all. And to me, by *pinching or nipping the dog's skin, that is quite cruel*.
> 
> You could be right about the use of foot to 'tap' the dog's bum, but my dislike of Mr Milan probably made it look to me that it was a harder 'tap'.


Not trying to be funny, but you definitely have little to no experience of a pack of dogs using dominance as a pack to prove who is leader.

I can understand that you could think that it was a torture implement, in all honesty they do look barbaric and evil - but they have been designed VERY cleverly to control the dog the way a pack leader would.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Reaper941 said:


> Not trying to be funny, but you definitely have little to no experience of a pack of dogs using dominance as a pack to prove who is leader.
> 
> I can understand that you could think that it was a torture implement, in all honesty they do look barbaric and evil - but they have been designed VERY cleverly to control the dog the way a pack leader would.


 
hee hee i think col should come here an see if he can rule my pack :lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Reaper941 said:


> but they have been designed VERY cleverly to control the dog the way a pack leader would.


Oh dear, I laughed so much when I read this that milk came out of my nose and I wasn't even drinking milk at the time.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Evie said:


> Oh dear, I laughed so much when I read this that milk came out of my nose and I wasn't even drinking milk at the time.


 
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL 

evie beer came down mine then :lol2:


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Evie said:


> I think you will find the collar is designed to hold the slip part at the top of the neck where it is most sensitive and most likely to cause damaged in the event of a big jerk on the end of the lead.


Great glad you get it now then.

John


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Here is some info on it 

*How does the collar work?*
_The Illusion Collar & Leash Set_ is designed to allow the owner to walk and train the dog using a slip collar correction, without having to stop and realign the collar to the proper position. It provides the ability to give a firm, yet quick and gentle, correction that eases up when the pressure is released. A normal slip collar falls to the base of the neck near the shoulders, which does not provide as much control. 

*How is this collar different from a harness?*
A harness fits over the dog’s chest, shoulders, and ribs. _The Illusion_ collar fits the entire length of the neck to provide proper positioning for the corrective slip collar.
*Why does the slip collar need to be behind the ears?*
The strongest muscles in a dog’s neck are at the base and shoulder girdle. If you look at an Alaskan sled dog pulling a load, you will see that the harness fits around the base of the neck at the shoulder. All the pulling strength of the dog is concentrated in that area, which is why a slip collar in this position is ineffective for correcting a behavior.
*Where does the leash attach? What do the flat strap collars do?*
The leash attaches to the larger “O” ring on the slip collar. The collar will not work if the leash is attached to the smaller ring. The flat strap collars provide a comfortable framework to keep the slip collar in the proper position for instant correction.
*How is the correction performed?*
The correction is performed by a quick pull on the leash which is attached to the larger “O” ring on the slip collar. Then the pressure is released, and the slip collar returns to the slack, loose position.
*Can I leave The Illusion collar on my dog all the time?*
Absolutely not. _The Illusion_ collar is designed as a training aid for walking your dog. For the dog’s safety, no slip collar of any kind should be left on an unsupervised dog. 
*Can I walk my dog on the right?*
As is standard dog training protocol, _The Illusion_ collar is designed to be used when walking the dog on the left of the owner. If you walk your dog on the right side, the collar will not perform as well and may not release as quickly after a correction.








*How should I measure for size?*
The slip collar does not open and must be able to slide over the dog’s head. You should measure at the base of the neck near the collar bone. This figure is roughly the same as the circumference of the dog’s head. Refer to the *sizing chart.*
*What is the smallest dog that The Illusion collar will fit?*
The collar will not fit most dogs weighing less than 18 lbs. If the base of your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches, you should not use the collar. The materials, such as the width of the straps and the size of the “O” rings, are specifically designed for larger dogs.
*Are there any dogs who shouldn’t wear The Illusion collar?*
Yes. Dogs with a neck measurement of less than 13 inches; dogs with any breathing problems, such as “pushed-in faces” that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds.
*How can I properly clean The Illusion collar?*
To maintain the _Illusion Collar and Leash Set _at peak performance, hand wash by swishing in a basin of cold water with a small amount of laundry detergent. We recommend using unscented detergent to ensure that your pet has no reaction to chemical fragrances. Then pat dry with a towel, re-shape, and hang to dry. _Do not dry in dryer or use fabric softener! _The use of fabric softener will likely result in loss of rigidity and poor performance, and repeated use of fabric softener will break down fibers prematurely


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Reaper941 said:


> Not trying to be funny, but you definitely have little to no experience of a pack of dogs using dominance as a pack to prove who is leader.
> 
> I can understand that you could think that it was a torture implement, in all honesty they do look barbaric and evil - but they have been designed VERY cleverly to control the dog the way a pack leader would.


Do you think a pack's leader goes around each member of the pack biting their necks to make them realise that they are the pack leader then? Dogs are so much more subtle than that! Eye contact, lip movements, twitches of the tail, etc, all give dogs vital information about one another. If all dogs went round biting each other's necks whenever they wanted to say "I'm the boss!", there would be constant fights!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Do you think a pack's leader goes around each member of the pack biting their necks to make them realise that they are the pack leader then? Dogs are so much more subtle than that! Eye contact, lip movements, twitches of the tail, etc, all give dogs vital information about one another. If all dogs went round biting each other's necks whenever they wanted to say "I'm the boss!".


 
hee hee col i love you but i ave to make a laff of this 


i do i bite all mine on the neck :whistling2: thats how they know im pack leader :lol2:


im sorry the carling took over it made me post


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I wondered why you always had hair between your teeth hun! I just thought you were very flexible!

:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> I wondered why you always had hair between your teeth hun! I just thought you were very flexible!
> 
> :lol2:


thats it thats it you got it wow your amazing LOL :lol2:


col marry me :flrt::lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> thats it thats it you got it wow your amazing LOL :lol2:
> 
> 
> col marry me :flrt::lol2:


Is that the booze talking again, or is that a geniune proposal? 

If so, I think we have the first RFUK engagement happening here! :2thumb:


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