# Pit Bulls... Dangerous dogs?!



## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

Judge for yourself

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201632262506947&set=vb.1190365087&type=2&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201632319788379&set=vb.1190365087&type=2&theater

:lol2:: victory:


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## debsandpets (May 26, 2012)

I adore Pits, and would have one in a heartbeat - apart from our sh1tty breed legislation - it would be so unfair to have one in the UK as a pet and risk it's life ending like poor Lennox who wasn't even a pit of a cross bred pit. I think the way that the Irish government handled his time in kennels etc due to one persons beliefs in front of judges etc, when that person then was found to be playing with the lovely Lennox when not known to be on camera etc is disgusting.
I used to work in kennels and we had an American Pit in for a 2 week stay. No one would go into his kennel etc for the fear of god that someone else had put into them. He was the soppiest and most loving boy, and I gladly then gave him all the attention that I could.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

These two, Cobalt and Sapphire, are exempted Pit Bull types. They do a lot of awareness and anti-BSL work. They were also the first ever exempted dogs to take the KC Good Citizens test :flrt: They are hoping to do their silver but will most likely never be able to do gold as it involves them being offlead in public places, unless they work around that and manage to do it on private property.






























https://www.facebook.com/TheCanineCrusaders?fref=ts


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

My answer? They're no more dangerous that lots of other breeds of dogs, because it's not the dogs, it's the owners. Such a shame for the breed though.

I did lol at those videos though! :roll2:


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## Jo-nin (Sep 8, 2011)

its not the dogs its the retards that buy them that are an issue. I love pits and staffies and both dont deserve the reputation


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## debsandpets (May 26, 2012)

They are both stunning examples of the breed.

I couldn't agree more about there is no such thing as a bad dog only a bad owner ....... Puppies aren't born with a need to attack and or kill, the poor things get encouraged to do so when it suits their new and sometimes pathetic owners who see their dog as a status symbol and or pen1s extension !!!!!!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

some dog breeds are harder work and need a firm hand and I think bull breeds are definitely up there. They are certainly not the right dogs for everyone.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

kitkat2 said:


> These two, Cobalt and Sapphire, are exempted Pit Bull types. They do a lot of awareness and anti-BSL work. They were also the first ever exempted dogs to take the KC Good Citizens test :flrt: They are hoping to do their silver but will most likely never be able to do gold as it involves them being offlead in public places, unless they work around that and manage to do it on private property.


I don't see why not as the article I read about them passing said they had to do it on private property this time for them as all levels are ment to be in public and muzzles are not allowed during the tests so they let them do it in private property so they could take them off

Hopefully they keep going and get the higher levels, as it goes to show what any breed in the right hands are capable of.


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## cathspythons (Jun 29, 2008)

I will be probably be shot down for this, but I am glad the breed is now banned. I owned a true APT that I bought from Edd Reid (1st importer of the breed) in the late 80s.
My boy was a steady loyal family dog who wouldn't harm a soul unless they threatened his family. He was no more dog aggressive than a lot of breeds that are recognised by the KC.
My dog was never allowed of lead in a public place, I always put him away when strangers or children visited our home because I new what the breed could be capable of.
I was always 100% careful with him and even though he was good natured I never took risks.
Considering a lot of people who own these dogs are idiots who train them to be aggressive would I like my 18 year old irresponsible neighbour to own one..No I wouldn't!!
Would I want one running free in the park around my grandson NO I wouldn't.
I do no and love the breed but due to some evil people in the world I don't think there's room for these dogs in our society which is such a shame.
Im not going to get into any debates or arguments, this is just a honest opinion of someone who owned & loved the breed for many years.


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

The only dog that has ever attacked me was an APT as I walked past it while visiting family in the US. I was 10 years old it went for my groin. Luckily, (though later a fashion faux pas) I was wearing a bum bag and it only caught a bit of my leg and the bum bag.
It was a family dog that I did nothing to and it would 'never hurt anyone'. It's not a breed I would trust and I love most dogs.
I appreciate not 100% of the breed are going to be monsters but all 3 of the ones I've ever met were vicious.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i don't care for pits at all...

pointless dogs with dangerous baggage... ugly too!

they should all be spayed and neutered... then go extinct i say.


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm a veterinary technician. The main breeds that come in to my work are chihuahuas and pit bulls.

I would work with a pit over a chi any day of the week, and twice on sundays.

We have 1 truly aggressive pit that comes in, because the young man trained him to be vicious. His parents now own the dog (the son is in jail, surprise surprise) and do what they can for him.

We have a couple others that need a muzzle because they are fear-aggressive and exceptionally timid dogs. We actually have more aggressive golden retrievers than pitbulls!

This is compared to the fact that about 75% of the chihuahuas try to eat my face, the nasty undersocialised shits.

I had the pleasure of fostering a pitty puppy whom I just rehomed. His name is Kisses. His new owner reports that when they are in the car, if anyone acknowledges him he'll try to climb out the window to say "omgHI! I love you I love you I love you!"

He's great at feigning dignity... for about 10 seconds at a time before turning into a giant wiggle.



"I am so very dignified. Ignore the grass stuck between my teeth."


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

I agree with all the comments, I am glad they are banned so not as accessible to all the idiots that want to own them but its a shame that all the responsible people that have innocent dogs get them ripped away from them. I feel all the "furmummies" that call them "Pibbles", "Pet Bulls" and "nanny dogs" do a lot of damage to the breed because then new owners think they are all lovely perfect easy dogs, which they arent. A real American Pit Bull Terrier is hard work, prone to dog aggression and not for everyone, especially not an ideal first dog, but that doesnt mean they are bad dogs in responsible hands. I think we need to be stricter on who can own them rather than a ban, but I think all dog ownership should be stricter no matter the breed, whatever law you have is going to be flawed when you have these bad owners that wont comply.

Also another hate with the Pit Bulls is "type" and people that think Pit Bulls are a group of dogs. In my opinion the term Pit Bull should only be used to describe the American *Pit Bull* Terrier, not the AmStaff or AmBully (that applies to every Bully from classic to extreme and "Shortybull") or Staffordshire Bull Terrier or Am Bulldog or any other breed that is commonly referred to as Pit Bulls, by putting all the breeds together the bite reports are only getting added up and making BSL worse. 

Edit: also I think that it tends to be more the AmStaffs and AmBullies that bite often, The APBT was a fighting dog so had to be human friendly, yes there were a few that were human aggressive but AmStaffs and more particularly AmBullies have been bred for looks and size rather than temperament, often severely inbred and unstable dogs. Yes they can be good pets too but when they do have issues and are human aggressive labelling them as Pit Bulls is only ruining the APBT's reputation when they aren't even the same breed

Here is a good link for breed identification


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

SpiritSerpents said:


> I'm a veterinary technician. The main breeds that come in to my work are chihuahuas and pit bulls.
> 
> I would work with a pit over a chi any day of the week, and twice on sundays.
> 
> ...


Friend of mine has two chihuahua's that she's had since they were puppies. Despite attending puppy classes from whenever it was that they were old enough they still have a fair few behaviours that'd drive me up the bend if I owned them. They're definately an aquired taste in dog breeds I'd say. 

One of them took a dislike to our alsatian cross and barked at her for about ten minutes. Our dog started off by pointedly ignoring her but finally got fed up, moved away and very deliberately stood on the offending dog on her way past. :whistling2:


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

Anyone know where you can buy the pink muzzle Sapphire is wearing, all I can ever find is the pale blue and black models?


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## Far2lively (Sep 8, 2012)

Pits are dangerous yes then again so is every other breed of dog if you train it to be, it's mostly the owners fault, although pits, bill terriers and others alike where purposely bred to kill so they will have that trait in them. Sadly it is us that are the reason they are banned in certain countries ect, people use them more of a fashion statement and have them because its cool rather than a pet.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

samurai said:


> Anyone know where you can buy the pink muzzle Sapphire is wearing, all I can ever find is the pale blue and black models?


No I think they only made them on a trial basis but they aren't for sale yet, I think. Carol did tell me that they don't sell them


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

dangerous breeds are a myth all they are is potentially dangerous and so is any dog. They let fair more potentially dangerous breeds into the country each year the law is a mockery and nothing short of racist but what we guna do about it this is same old...


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

I've got a pitbull and she's (annoyingly) soft. Just wants a cuddle and a warm place to curl up and snore her head off. Bought her from a dogs home aged 18 months (in 2008 ). She was dumped in there named 'Uzi', which the home changed to 'Oozie' for obvious reasons. I reckon bred to fight, but either wouldn't fight or wasn't very good, I don't know, who names a dog after a sub-machine gun? 

Anyway, I disagree whole-heartedly with the ban. It results in blatant murder of dogs who have committed no crime. A stupid bloody Jack Russel could be 'trained' to be nasty, but because their mouth is as small as a golf ball nobody cares.


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## Oli P C (Sep 17, 2009)

All dog breeds are lovely and are all well behaved! If trained properly and given the rite attention. if you can not be bothered to take your dog to classes and socialise it and take it for a GOOD walk everyday of its life don't get one! American pit bull are lush dogs


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

Tops said:


> I appreciate not 100% of the breed are going to be monsters but all 3 of the ones I've ever met were vicious.


I appreciate that a bad experience with a dog is pretty terrifying and it would be unfair to blame you for such an attack, but could it have possibly clouded your judgement a little?
You say all 3 of the ones you have had experience with were vicious. OK. But WHY were they vicious? Was it because they were pit bull type dogs or was it because they were trained in that way? Statistically, by using your 3 examples, bully dog breeds ARE vicious by nature. But is it fair for a whole breed population's temperament to be based upon your experiences with 3 animals that may have been raised specifically to fight?

I'm not saying that APBT's and similar breeds are easy to train and almost guaranteed to be lovely dogs unless you specifically try and make them otherwise, but I think that sometimes they definitely deserve more credit. They're great dogs.


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

kitkat2 said:


> I agree with all the comments, I am glad they are banned so not as accessible to all the idiots that want to own them but its a shame that all the responsible people that have innocent dogs get them ripped away from them. I feel all the "furmummies" that call them "Pibbles", "Pet Bulls" and "nanny dogs" do a lot of damage to the breed because then new owners think they are all lovely perfect easy dogs, which they arent. A real American Pit Bull Terrier is hard work, prone to dog aggression and not for everyone, especially not an ideal first dog, but that doesnt mean they are bad dogs in responsible hands. I think we need to be stricter on who can own them rather than a ban, but I think all dog ownership should be stricter no matter the breed, whatever law you have is going to be flawed when you have these bad owners that wont comply.
> 
> Also another hate with the Pit Bulls is "type" and people that think Pit Bulls are a group of dogs. In my opinion the term Pit Bull should only be used to describe the American *Pit Bull* Terrier, not the AmStaff or AmBully (that applies to every Bully from classic to extreme and "Shortybull") or Staffordshire Bull Terrier or Am Bulldog or any other breed that is commonly referred to as Pit Bulls, by putting all the breeds together the bite reports are only getting added up and making BSL worse.
> 
> ...


Agreed, i think every dog breed should only be able to be bred by licenced breeders there are far to many healthy dogs being down because they cant find a home.

Where i the sense in allowing a licensee the right to breed a tiger or crocodile but a licensee cant breed a APBT?


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

Tops said:


> The only dog that has ever attacked me was an APT as I walked past it while visiting family in the US. I was 10 years old it went for my groin. Luckily, (though later a fashion faux pas) I was wearing a bum bag and it only caught a bit of my leg and the bum bag.
> It was a family dog that I did nothing to and it would 'never hurt anyone'. It's not a breed I would trust and I love most dogs.
> I appreciate not 100% of the breed are going to be monsters but all 3 of the ones I've ever met were vicious.


I hear why you might have bit of a grudge against them but they all breeds have there bad dogs, and yes i do believe there are dogs that jut have no place in general society jut like people. I remember when i was young, i had this friend, i was on the way to his house and then all of a sudden he turned around a said "you cant come in, my gran i here and she doesn't like foreigners, she was mugged by a foreign looking chap and has not been able to stand non whites since" to what i replied "im not foreign im English (I'm mixed race) my mum is white" "yeh, but your old man isnt" he replied. my point is, there is white, black, chinese, Thai extra that are lawyers, humanitarians war heroes and then they all have there share of cum that need culling, its not right to discriminate against all because of a individual experience, jut be couscous of all.


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

Far2lively said:


> Pits are dangerous yes then again so is every other breed of dog if you train it to be, it's mostly the owners fault, although pits, bill terriers and others alike where purposely bred to kill so they will have that trait in them. Sadly it is us that are the reason they are banned in certain countries ect, people use them more of a fashion statement and have them because its cool rather than a pet.


Pits where bred to kill, yes but not Humans unlike many other breeds that where bred to course bodily harm to people.Pit bull breeds where never bred harm people, quite the opposite actually.
Pit bulls are a the name suggests, they were bred for the pit, bull/bear baiting and dog fighting, so many show aggression to other animals unfortunately other dogs as well.

There however dogs that where bred for man control and to intimidate humans through aggression, like Dobermanns (that are mostly big wusses) that where bred as a deters dog or Belgian Malinois or Alsation that where farm dogs turned crowed control dogs Rottweiler and alsations not only have been selectively bred to show human aggression but also have a higher bite force. APBT on the other hand where bred to show and act on aggression to other animals in a ferocious way (as are fox hounds and beagles) but the be patched up and brought home to play with the toddler, hence the name Nanny Dog. If you can find early dog fighting pictures you will find that when a dog has obviously lost and one owner call it a night the other dog owner will get in the pit in the middle of a full out attack and separate the dogs jaws with a stick and his bare hands.

the most affectionate, obedient, wanting to please the owner dogs i have ever come across are APBT, in fact one of my bitches is so protective over my doughtier that when she was young and she heard a noise she would run and stand in front of her staring in the direction of the noise with a fierce look one her face even when me and my wife got in a argument.

Its a outrage how people have turned there backs on a breed that ha served them so wells especially the UK, in most case all they want to do is please there owner very misunderstood animals.


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

mstypical said:


> I've got a pitbull and she's (annoyingly) soft. Just wants a cuddle and a warm place to curl up and snore her head off. Bought her from a dogs home aged 18 months (in 2008 ). She was dumped in there named 'Uzi', which the home changed to 'Oozie' for obvious reasons. I reckon bred to fight, but either wouldn't fight or wasn't very good, I don't know, who names a dog after a sub-machine gun?
> 
> Anyway, I disagree whole-heartedly with the ban. It results in blatant murder of dogs who have committed no crime. A stupid bloody Jack Russel could be 'trained' to be nasty, but because their mouth is as small as a golf ball nobody cares.


Shamful isnt it the merder and miss-justice honestly without trying to sound like a lady one her emotional times brings tear to my eye and really brings me down.


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

A very good thread so far and interesting illustrations. I do like these canines and YES even the American Pit Bulls. Iv'e only met one "bloodnose" as such but total loyalty to its owner who had it under control. A lot of owners I think have a fear of letting loose their dogs - even from Pup age - which then slowly but surely spirals to the point of no return - ie no trust etc. Sure, a pup is going to chase away, play up etc but after good command and reward the instilled conditioning should see it through. My Rottweiler went through that same stigma - he was from a line of KC Champions and of the true German line ( the ones I am led to believe used in the classic Omen films). I took it to ex-Police dog trainer classes and was very obedient. I always had him off lead - in public places too but he always came to my side whenever I commanded. I've had a staffie too - an abandoned one but it use to just tear through the hedgerows trying to catch birds etc. It never aggresively chased cats or other dogs. Friends have staffordshires too and I walk these quite often too. The female again never ever runs off and even in public spaces - towns, parks etc she never wanders off. A very intelligent and peaceful dog. The other is a rescue and has too much energy/excitement due to the forever loving home it now has. He will try to lick the cat too much and will chase playfully other cats - hence his restrictions when I walk it. 

... Look, here is a crowd of different people. Yes - they are all human . One is a doctor and one is a disabled nurse... One guy is a bisexual artist and another fixes lawnmowers and is starting up his own business... the hundredth person is psychotic - but not dangerous. Amongst this crowd is a brutal thug who has a steady job and ticks all the right boxes on appearence and image. Which one is the thug? The police know this weekend's job of crowd control will be paramount knowing that this person will be attending a local event but they do not know the persons appearence ... etc This scenario is applicable to every dog on the street - you be your own judge of prejudice, provacation and prevention. etc


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

elmthesofties said:


> I appreciate that a bad experience with a dog is pretty terrifying and it would be unfair to blame you for such an attack, but could it have possibly clouded your judgement a little?
> You say all 3 of the ones you have had experience with were vicious. OK. But WHY were they vicious? Was it because they were pit bull type dogs or was it because they were trained in that way? Statistically, by using your 3 examples, bully dog breeds ARE vicious by nature. But is it fair for a whole breed population's temperament to be based upon your experiences with 3 animals that may have been raised specifically to fight?
> 
> I'm not saying that APBT's and similar breeds are easy to train and almost guaranteed to be lovely dogs unless you specifically try and make them otherwise, but I think that sometimes they definitely deserve more credit. They're great dogs.


Very valid point, my wife doesn't like snakes, she always tells me she doesnt like the spitting cobras because they are always trying to spit "what makes you think they are trying to spit?" i ask "because they are making a noise" "but there curled up in there hide box i reply" "O" she says.
Another one; "im not holding that snake cos it is always trying to bite me" "how have you come to that conclusion?" "the way it moves in my direction!"


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

HABU said:


> i don't care for pits at all...
> 
> pointless dogs with dangerous baggage... ugly too!
> 
> they should all be spayed and neutered... then go extinct i say.


LOL, yeh, really, thats nice!


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

Jonathan4 said:


> LOL, yeh, really, thats nice!


I know right?

Sounds just like the lady that was at my work while I had Kisses snuggled in my arms. He was 10 weeks old and licking me and being a general sweetheart. She looked at me, snorted, and said "Those dogs are all evil and should all be killed."

And then she got huffy when the receptionists stopped chatting with her. Because telling a person who is currently snuggling their puppy that you think it should die is _totally _a way to make friends with the staff.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I haven't read all of this thread but wouldn't it be simple if those who want to keep certain breeds of dogs have to have a lisence to keep them and attend handling classes also those dogs be on a register so its known where the dog is for its life. Maybe if the owners had to meet requirements it might put of those buyers who want them for the wrong reason and those responsible owners shouldn't mind meeting certain requirements , sorry if there's already some sort of rules in place. Those rules should include the breeders and sellers who should also have to have records of who their puppies are sold to, instead of owners moaning about the way people regard these dogs get together and try to do something positive to put other people's minds at ease and stop those who don't look after the dogs properly being able to get hold of them. I would hesitate in meeting more laws to keep my chi/papillon if I had to and it meant keeping my dog and being a responsible dog owner.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> I haven't read all of this thread but wouldn't it be simple if those who want to keep certain breeds of dogs have to have a lisence to keep them and attend handling classes also those dogs be on a register so its known where the dog is for its life. Maybe if the owners had to meet requirements it might put of those buyers who want them for the wrong reason and those responsible owners shouldn't mind meeting certain requirements , sorry if there's already some sort of rules in place. Those rules should include the breeders and sellers who should also have to have records of who their puppies are sold to, instead of owners moaning about the way people regard these dogs get together and try to do something positive to put other people's minds at ease and stop those who don't look after the dogs properly being able to get hold of them. I would hesitate in meeting more laws to keep my chi/papillon if I had to and it meant keeping my dog and being a responsible dog owner.


There is a register of exempted dogs (dogs which are 'type' but have been spared death) which requires insurance and an annual licence. The terms of the licence state that she must be leashed and muzzled in all public places. That is more than enough. I would not appreciate being forced to attend classes when my time is already at a premium and my dog is already very well-behaved. What would it achieve?


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

but is that register/lisence for all who own any of the so called dangerous dogs which I think it should be, as for training then do you have a certificate to prove that you and your dog have taken part in specific tests?. As for cost and time if anyone can afford the often large amount of money to buy one of these then they can afford the cost of training, lisence and registration and also find to time to put other's minds at ease and shouldn't this training be done when the dog is young or be done by any rehoming center. We were at a small local show at the weekend organised by the Boxer club and saw the dogs doing various handling tests at different levels with a certificate to show they had completed a stage, surely that isn't a difficult thing to organise and as far as I was concerned it was nice to see the owners making an effort, each dog was accompanied by a tester with a clipboard and taken out of the show ground and around the village, I didn't even know that things like that were done. Are they done for other breeds including the ones with bad reputations, ie their own clubs with these tests? that would be one way of people doing this sort of training which could be varied according to the breeds needs ie behavour around other dogs/people etc. As to what attending something when your dog is already well behaved it would set a good example for one thing, show that those who do keep their dogs properly don't consider themselves above or exempt from any new laws and also prove it to doubters and have something in writing rather than just your word that your dog is ok, good enough reasons at least I think. If it would make it easier and fairer then have all dogs attend classes and gain certificates a bit like having to have a driving lisence.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

The thing is though you cannot define a dangerous dog by breed, it doesnt work like that. You would need to blanket the licensing and training to all dogs. I have met more very aggressive small terriers than I have bull breeds.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

annsimpson1 said:


> but is that register/lisence for all who own any of the so called dangerous dogs which I think it should be, as for training then do you have a certificate to prove that you and your dog have taken part in specific tests?. As for cost and time if anyone can afford the often large amount of money to buy one of these then they can afford the cost of training, lisence and registration and also find to time to put other's minds at ease and shouldn't this training be done when the dog is young or be done by any rehoming center. We were at a small local show at the weekend organised by the Boxer club and saw the dogs doing various handling tests at different levels with a certificate to show they had completed a stage, surely that isn't a difficult thing to organise and as far as I was concerned it was nice to see the owners making an effort, each dog was accompanied by a tester with a clipboard and taken out of the show ground and around the village, I didn't even know that things like that were done. Are they done for other breeds including the ones with bad reputations, ie their own clubs with these tests? that would be one way of people doing this sort of training which could be varied according to the breeds needs ie behavour around other dogs/people etc. As to what attending something when your dog is already well behaved it would set a good example for one thing, show that those who do keep their dogs properly don't consider themselves above or exempt from any new laws and also prove it to doubters and have something in writing rather than just your word that your dog is ok, good enough reasons at least I think. If it would make it easier and fairer then have all dogs attend classes and gain certificates a bit like having to have a driving lisence.


The large amount of money, all you have to do is buy or rescue a staffy or staffy x. All dogs that get exempted have to pass tests and assessments to deem they are no danger to the public, even they they still always have to wear a muzzle and be on a lead so training classes wont really help much. Many people that own exempted dogs choose to walk them early in the morning and late at night if they can because they get so much rubbish about it so I cant see them wanting to go to training classes all the time and if they did I dont think other members would like it (just how some people are)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I have a friend who was having problems with her GSD and who telephoned a number of dog training establishments to be told that they "don't take German Shepherds". 

She eventually found one near us who do and the dog is doing great. 

I phoned a lady who was recommended to me for Skye when he first began to display dog aggression to try and nip it in the bud and take him further than the normal dog training of heel, sit, lie, stay etc. I explained his problems and asked about the lessons and her response was "but do we want you dog at our training sessions?" I resisted the urge to tell her to go and multiply!!

So I now go to the same training establishment as my friend and they are great with GSDs, they understand the 'differences', love the breed and are great with them.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

isn't there a difference though between general training classes and breed specific clubs? if it was a breed club wouldn't the training be adapted to the needs of the breed. Are all dogs the same when it comes to training? or are there specific areas that need to be more thorough with certain breeds. To be honest I don't blame some general/all dog training being doubtfull about certain animals comming along and I don't think you'll ever get over peoples wariness of large or certain breeds. Maybe I'm silly but when I walk my chi/papillon I am wary of greyhounds and similar breeds simply because I worry that my small hairy dog could be mistaken for something to be chased ie a rabbit/cat etc most aorund our way have muzzles which does put you a bit more at ease. My daughter has just taken on a border which is 9 and has fear aggression and rather than take her to classes they had a dog person come out to them who spent the morning with the dog, he gave them some good tips and although they've only had the dog a few weeks she is already behaving better when out, she wears a muzzle just in case though, at least for the moment. Most of her problems came from her previous owner advoiding or picking her up at the sight of another dog, she also spent a lot of time in kennels as her owner would rather that than take her with them, she won't be doing that in the future and will also be spayed if ok with the vet.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> isn't there a difference though between general training classes and breed specific clubs? if it was a breed club wouldn't the training be adapted to the needs of the breed. Are all dogs the same when it comes to training? or are there specific areas that need to be more thorough with certain breeds. To be honest I don't blame some general/all dog training being doubtfull about certain animals comming along and I don't think you'll ever get over peoples wariness of large or certain breeds. Maybe I'm silly but when I walk my chi/papillon I am wary of greyhounds and similar breeds simply because I worry that my small hairy dog could be mistaken for something to be chased ie a rabbit/cat etc most aorund our way have muzzles which does put you a bit more at ease. My daughter has just taken on a border which is 9 and has fear aggression and rather than take her to classes they had a dog person come out to them who spent the morning with the dog, he gave them some good tips and although they've only had the dog a few weeks she is already behaving better when out, she wears a muzzle just in case though, at least for the moment. Most of her problems came from her previous owner advoiding or picking her up at the sight of another dog, she also spent a lot of time in kennels as her owner would rather that than take her with them, she won't be doing that in the future and will also be spayed if ok with the vet.


Breed specific training for pit bulls? Yes, get a group of pit bull owners together in the same room, I can imagine the papers would love that. I'll say it again, after my dog (and EVERY other exempted dog) proving she should be allowed to live by spending up to 6 months in police kennels having 'tests', what exactly would this 'class' be for?


Just because you and your daughter have problems with your dogs, which aren't 'pits', doesn't mean we should all have to go to classes. Some of us already know how to train a dog at home.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Not all dog training is the same breeds do differ, some breeds collies for example do not mind very repetitive training. I have found bull breeds need a firm hand (positively obviously) they need to know whos boss and you need to be firm in your commands and training.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

SiUK said:


> Not all dog training is the same breeds do differ, some breeds collies for example do not mind very repetitive training. I have found bull breeds need a firm hand (positively obviously) they need to know whos boss and you need to be firm in your commands and training.


I agree, but I also think its best done at home. My dog is easily distracted by other dogs, particularly a large number of them. However she is extremely obedient, loyal, has never failed to respond to an instruction I've set her.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't have any problems with my dog and my daughters is, if you read, a rehomer of a few weeks, advertised as the owner could no longer cope with it, free to a good home. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that my dog needs training or is badly behavoured, and I'm talking about new owners of puppies etc not older dogs from rehoming centers or whatever, catch them early and you may help reduce the amount of dogs needing new homes. As for meeting in a room I don't know where you got that idea from, the boxer club show was outside on a recreation ground, do many breed clubs meet inside then ? and you sound as agressive as some of the dogs we are talking about, I'm only suggesting some ideas to help/prevent more of these dogs getting a bad name which is more than you or some others are. I don't see many other ideas being put forward just arguements and don't do this or that, the facts are that yes all dogs can and sometimes do bite but that a big dog can inflict far more harm than a small dog biting your ankle hence the reason they make the papers and that will never be changed untill the owners decide to do something positive instead of moaning and expecting sympathy. I doubt my chi/papillon could kill anyone but a much larger dog can, and you could kill mine by treading on him not need someone with a gun. One more thing if these dogs are as trainable as you appear to think then shouldn't they also behave in a room with others, after all isn't it the behaviour with other dogs or people where the problems lie, at some point the dog will have to meet others so surely the best test and place to work with them is where other dogs are, at least then you will get a fair idea of how trainable the dog is. You can't expect to walk any dog and never meet another that is just advoiding the problem, maybe it would be a very positive reaction in the papers if it was shown how well behaved they can be in company not the other way around.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> I don't have any problems with my dog and my daughters is, if you read, a rehomer of a few weeks, advertised as the owner could no longer cope with it, free to a good home. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that my dog needs training or is badly behavoured, and I'm talking about new owners of puppies etc not older dogs from rehoming centers or whatever, catch them early and you may help reduce the amount of dogs needing new homes. As for meeting in a room I don't know where you got that idea from, the boxer club show was outside on a recreation ground, do many breed clubs meet inside then ? and you sound as agressive as some of the dogs we are talking about, I'm only suggesting some ideas to help/prevent more of these dogs getting a bad name which is more than you or some others are. I don't see many other ideas being put forward just arguements and don't do this or that, the facts are that yes all dogs can and sometimes do bite but that a big dog can inflict far more harm than a small dog biting your ankle hence the reason they make the papers and that will never be changed untill the owners decide to do something positive instead of moaning and expecting sympathy. I doubt my chi/papillon could kill anyone but a much larger dog can, and you could kill mine by treading on him not need someone with a gun.


Maybe do a bit of reading before judging, for a start a dog cannot be typed before it is 10-12 months old, not a puppy. What has killing a dog got to do with anything?

And your comment about me being aggressive, please do tell me where I sound aggressive? You are the one talking about shooting dogs dead!


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

isn't that how they have to kill a rogue large breed dog! and I'm talking about all potentially dangerous dogs not just pitbulls and I'm sure you know what some of the japanese and other 'risk' dogs are before that age, or is it just pit bulls that have hurt people/dogs in the past. Sorry I don't know the specific names of them but am sure there's more than just pit bulls, and to be honest I don't know why anyone would want to own a dog that could be classed as dangerous unless its just to prove a point that they can but then there are people that want to own dangerous big cats and lethal snakes/reptiles. I guess I'm just one of those getting on a bit old women that back of from a powerfull dog that its owner doesn't seem to have much control over and we meet a few of them around the market and I'm not the only one that backs away. They also seem to be owned by the same sort of people, big guys who think they look tough and seem to think it looks good to have a powerfull dog on a thick lead with a studded collar/harness. Having to have a lisence and attend some sort of classes could only be a good thing for some of them, I'm sure there are exceptions to these owners but I never seem to see any of them.

You judged me first by saying I and my daughter had dogs that had problems etc and I don't know where you got that idea from this is my dog and doesn't he look like he has problems


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## aidey07 (Nov 16, 2008)

All dogs are dangerous, but if a dog is dangerous it is mostly the owners fault.
If you gave the dog the right training they would be fine.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

mstypical said:


> I agree, but I also think its best done at home. My dog is easily distracted by other dogs, particularly a large number of them. However she is extremely obedient, loyal, has never failed to respond to an instruction I've set her.


We trained ours with a trainer but not in a group although shes not very dog orientated at all she ignores other dogs but likes to see people.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I still think compulsery training is the way things will go whether at home or with a group and with a registered trainer, for all dogs but with difference things covered according to the breed, and showing that the dog will listen and behave with others has to be part of it. Although a big person can just about hang onto a powerfull dog it shouldn't be like that and I know its not the dogs fault but the owner's, hence the need for having to show you can control your dog at least out in public and that you have a secure garden/yard for the more 'potentially dangerous' breeds. The only way you could show that would be some sort of inspection by a club organiser etc before you got your lisence, it shouldn't be down to a neibour reporting or an accident happening to know that someone shouldn't have the dog they have. If people won't be responsible for themselves then legistation is the only other option but owners talking to clubs and thinking of ways to control more could advoid the government or Defra stepping in.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> I still think compulsery training is the way things will go whether at home or with a group and with a registered trainer, for all dogs but with difference things covered according to the breed, and showing that the dog will listen and behave with others has to be part of it. Although a big person can just about hang onto a powerfull dog it shouldn't be like that and I know its not the dogs fault but the owner's, hence the need for having to show you can control your dog at least out in public and that you have a secure garden/yard for the more 'potentially dangerous' breeds. The only way you could show that would be some sort of inspection by a club organiser etc before you got your lisence, it shouldn't be down to a neibour reporting or an accident happening to know that someone shouldn't have the dog they have. If people won't be responsible for themselves then legistation is the only other option but owners talking to clubs and thinking of ways to control more could advoid the government or Defra stepping in.


I cannot discuss this with you any further. I can already tell you have mind your mind up about big dog owners, and I can't talk to narrow minded people. If you would like to open your mind and meet an actual pitbull which is a loved and valued well-behaved family pet, you are welcome to meet mine.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

why do you wish to be different from me, I would do the training, lisence et for my dog as he is also a well loved pet and if it was law then I'd abide, I assume then you would be one who wouldn't, who do you think would be the more responsible owner then. Why am I narrow minded for trying to solve/suggest answers for owners of dogs I don't have, I consider you the narrow minded/stubborn one for sticking your head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> why do you wish to be different from me, I would do the training, lisence et for my dog as he is also a well loved pet and if it was law then I'd abide, I assume then you would be one who wouldn't, who do you think would be the more responsible owner then.
> 
> I do abide by the law, my dog has been to court, been exempted, is fully insured and fully licenced in accordance with the Index of Exempted Dogs held by DEFRA. So what exactly am I doing that's irresponsible?
> 
> ...


Replies in red. 

You are extremely rude and offensive.

In case you also can't read I will ask you one more time.

CLASSES FOR WHAT?

*My dog is well trained, people-friendly, dog-friendly, child-friendly, and reptile-friendly. What would you have me take her to training for, what would the aim of a 'class' be? *


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## kim1989 (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't actually keep dogs although if I was to have one it would most certainly be a pit bull or staffy as they are one of my favourite dogs. This is not to look hard or cool as you put it annsimpson1. It is because I love the breed.

I also agree with mstypical with regards to what the classes would be for.

If the dogs (any dogs - not just dangerous dogs as ANY dog can be dangerous (even your dog)) are well behaved, licensed, done everything they needed to do so the dog didn't get put to sleep, what would the classes be for.

I have read through the whole thread and no where did I see where mstypical was aggressive in any way. For you to suggest that, clearly shows that you are quite narrow minded.

I would love to own one of these dogs and to be honest the one I would choose would be the true American Pit Bull because I think they are stunning dogs and yes they have a bad reputation, but that is because of the arse wipes that own them!! I can't stand it when you hear any of this breed in the paper that it's aggressive etc when you could quite easily get a lab or any other 'soppy' dog that will attack in a heartbeat.

ANY dog (or animal in general) is capable of attacking and I think that these dogs get a bad name because of the morons that own them who train them to attack and kill and fight. This is wrong but people like mstypical shouldn't be penalised for this just because she owns one herself.

I don't think there is any need for any additional classes and I think that owning one of these specific breeds would be very rewarding.

Hope I've made my point!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

pits are worthless dogs...


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> pits are worthless dogs...


Depends what you consider 'worth' to be...


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

kim1989 said:


> I don't actually keep dogs although if I was to have one it would most certainly be a pit bull or staffy as they are one of my favourite dogs. This is not to look hard or cool as you put it annsimpson1. It is because I love the breed.
> 
> I also agree with mstypical with regards to what the classes would be for.
> 
> ...


Thank you 

To lighten the mood...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

To be honest its mainly the idiot people who own them that are worthless. They are worth LOTS, I think THE most adaptable breed, excelling in hunting, search and rescue, disc competitions, agility, flyball, dock diving, police dogs, war dogs, weight pull, obedience, heel work to music, service dogs, pets as therapy etc. You name it and an APBT can do it, even if they aren't the best at one particular thing they will put every bit of effort they have into it for you


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> Depends what you consider 'worth' to be...


pit bulls were engineered to do what exactly?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> To be honest its mainly the idiot people who own them that are worthless. They are worth LOTS, I think THE most adaptable breed, excelling in hunting, search and rescue, disc competitions, agility, flyball, dock diving, police dogs, war dogs, weight pull, obedience, heel work to music, service dogs, pets as therapy etc. You name it and an APBT can do it, even if they aren't the best at one particular thing they will put every bit of effort they have into it for you



you forgot eating children... what pits excel at...:whistling2:


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> pit bulls were engineered to do what exactly?


Engineered? Are you serious? Mine's a very intelligent and affectionate pet, what else should a family dog be?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> Engineered? Are you serious? Mine's a very intelligent and affectionate pet, what else should a family dog be?


all dogs were selectively bred for certain traits...

all domestic dogs were engineered...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> you forgot eating children... what pits excel at...:whistling2:


Yes they can do that too just like the Jack Russel that killed a baby a few months ago and all the Labrador and Border Collie attacks, as well as every other breed that has teeth in its mouth



Out of curiosity would you refer to either of these two dogs as Pit Bulls


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> Engineered? Are you serious? Mine's a very intelligent and affectionate pet, what else should a family dog be?


maybe a wolf?

where did dogs come from?... seen any wild corgis or poodles lately?:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Out of curiosity would you refer to either of these two dogs as Pit Bulls
> 
> image
> 
> image


yes... bruts... sematics aside... these types are bad news...

what's with the tiny ears? the big jaws?... clamping...


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> maybe a wolf?
> 
> where did dogs come from?... seen any wild corgis or poodles lately?:lol2:


I'm afraid your point completely eludes me, you will have to elaborate on your argument.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> I'm afraid your point completely eludes me, you will have to elaborate on your argument.


you haven't a clue about where dog breeds come from?... seriously?

here's a proper dog...


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> you haven't a clue about where dog breeds come from?... seriously?
> 
> here's a proper dog...
> 
> image


Yes seriously. What is your point?


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> yes... bruts... sematics aside... these types are bad news...
> 
> what's with the tiny ears? the big jaws?... clamping...


Well neither are Pit Bulls so that is your answer, blaming the wrong dogs for the wrong things. Bullies usually have quite big ears when they aren't cropped and so do Am Staffs and APBT. Yes they have powerful jaws, so do German Shepherds, Mastiffs, Rottweilers, Dobermans etc... as I just put in my last post a Jack Russel recently killed a baby, should we ban them? Collies have ripped childrens faces off, shall we ban them? And all the Labradors? And every other animal that has teeth and can bite?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Wikipedia? Sorry I have an education I refuse to pander to that drivel. Get me some peer-reviewed factual evidence if you must link to further reading.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

The term collie refers to any dog with the word "collie" in the name. There is only one breed that has "Pit Bull" in there name and that is the American Pit Bull Terrier. American staffordshire terrier or American Bully, neither have the term "pit bull" in their name and therefore are not pit bulls


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Well neither are Pit Bulls so that is your answer, blaming the wrong dogs for the wrong things. Bullies usually have quite big ears when they aren't cropped and so do Am Staffs and APBT. Yes they have powerful jaws, so do German Shepherds, Mastiffs, Rottweilers, Dobermans etc... as I just put in my last post a Jack Russel recently killed a baby, should we ban them? Collies have ripped childrens faces off, shall we ban them? And all the Labradors? And every other animal that has teeth and can bite?


yes, things happen... but it's nearly always a pit bull...

why is that?... why do pits make up nearly all dog attacks?... just random chance?

i don't think so...

pit fighting... they were born and bred to kill...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> Wikipedia? Sorry I have an education I refuse to pander to that drivel. Get me some peer-reviewed factual evidence if you must link to further reading.


wow! a closed-minded educated person...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> yes, things happen... but it's nearly always a pit bull...
> 
> why is that?... why do pits make up nearly all dog attacks?... just random chance?
> 
> ...


Yes kill other animal hence why they can be prone to dog aggression and high prey drive, as I said not for everyone. There are many more pit bulls that other breeds so there are higher numbers/chances, also when all pit type breeds are grouped together than makes even MORE dogs most of which arent actually pit bulls, the media get a better reaction for covering it, irresponsible owners and people who do not respect dogs or teach their children too. That is why


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## Middleton Mouse (May 16, 2013)

mstypical said:


> Yes seriously. What is your point?


I've not been able to make head nor tail of any of his posts on this thread, I think we'd be wasting our time waiting on a reasoned argument.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

A REAL dog... small, compact, light, fast, agile, powerful, obedient, brave, loyal, friendly. The will do ANYTHING you ask of them and they will do it to the best of their ability. They will save lives, bring food to your table or be a happy companion. You could ask anything of these dogs and they will do it for you and that is why they are so often exploited for it


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Middleton Mouse said:


> I've not been able to make head nor tail of any of his posts on this thread, I think we'd be wasting our time waiting on a reasoned argument.


Pit bull attacks donkey, killed by deputy - Camp Verde Bugle - Camp Verde, Arizona

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130901pet-burro-attacked-pit-bull-abrk.html

Pit Bull Attacks Prompt Waterloo to Consider New Ordinance | KCRG-TV9 | Cedar Rapids, Iowa News, Sports, and Weather | Local News

PIT BULLS: Sterilization law could come before Supervisors in October | Politics | PE.com - Press-Enterprise


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> image
> 
> A REAL dog... small, compact, light, fast, agile, powerful, obedient, brave, loyal, friendly. The will do ANYTHING you ask of them and they will do it to the best of their ability. They will save lives, bring food to your table or be a happy companion. You could ask anything of these dogs and they will do it for you and that is why they are so often exploited for it


a crap dog...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

Boy, 3, left with horrific facial injuries as Labrador savages him at Poole Harbour | Mail Online

3-Year-Old Savaged by Labrador

Labrador attacks girl, six, in Gloucester | This is Gloucestershire

Labrador Attacks Boy Day Before Christmas - DogsBite.org

Toddler needed 200 stitches after attack by his grandparents' 'timid' collie | Mail Online

Family's border collie leaps into car and mauls baby | Mail Online

Toddler scarred for life after dog attack (From The Argus)

Jack Russell cross bites one week old child in 'jealousy' attack | Mail Online

Pet Jack Russell that killed eight-day-old boy 'had escaped through stair gate to attack child' | Mail Online


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> a crap dog...


I personally hate Flabradors so there ya go


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

kitkat2 said:


> Boy, 3, left with horrific facial injuries as Labrador savages him at Poole Harbour | Mail Online
> 
> 3-Year-Old Savaged by Labrador
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself. 

Media stories prove nothing. Sadly, nor do accident reporting statistics, as attacks from small dogs are more likely to go unreported, and attacks from big dogs likely to misidentify the perpetrating dog.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Boy, 3, left with horrific facial injuries as Labrador savages him at Poole Harbour | Mail Online
> 
> 3-Year-Old Savaged by Labrador
> 
> ...



indeed... dogs can be very dangerous... pits tend to just be the most dangerous...

and the usual people that have pits shouldn't have any dog...










any respectable thug has a pit or two...

you live in the hood homey?


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> indeed... dogs can be very dangerous... pits tend to just be the most dangerous...
> 
> and the usual people that have pits shouldn't have any dog...
> 
> ...


:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

what were pits bred for?

simple question...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> what were pits bred for?
> 
> simple question...


Fighting other *DOGS* and hunting/baiting *ANIMALS*. They were bred to be extremely human and child friendly :2thumb:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

good boy!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Fighting other *DOGS* and hunting/baiting *ANIMALS*. They were bred to be extremely human and child friendly :2thumb:


fighting and friendly... hmmm...:whistling2:


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> image
> 
> good boy!


Yes that is a very nice Am Staff, obviously very comfortable with hand around his face and showing no signs of stress or aggression


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Yes that is a very nice Am Staff, obviously very comfortable with hand around his face and showing no signs of stress or aggression


till he rips your face off...


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> fighting and friendly... hmmm...:whistling2:


Yes, that is like saying because people hunt/shoot animals for food they HAVE to hunt/shoot people too. Yes Pit Bulls can be dog aggressive and prone to high prey drive but they know what is an animal and what is a human. Do Labradors and Spaniels try to retrieve humans? No I dont think they do lol


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> till he rips your face off...


Yeah that Lab was nice until he rips your face off too


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

pits are not a species, just a breed...

really pits are the pinnacle of the dog species?

why do pits do the majority of attacks?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> Yeah that Lab was nice until he rips your face off too


and labs attack folks and animals every day... like pits do... not a day goes by that is without pit attacks... here at least...

labs don't seem to have that issue... wonder why?


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> pits are not a species, just a breed...
> 
> really pits are the pinnacle of the dog species?
> 
> why do pits do the majority of attacks?


I explained the reason why earlier 

Pit Bulls are dogs, just like other, yes they are prone to certain problems. But if trained properly they will likely never have those problems. If they do they can be managed responsibly. With a dog aggressive dog (of any breed) you can muzzle it and keep it on lead in open areas, if that is done then it can not cause any harm to another dog and it poses no threat. If a dog (of any breed) is human aggressive then again it should be muzzled and managed appropriately. If a dog (of any breed) has a strong prey drive or herding instinct they should be kept on a lead around any livestock and places where wild animals are, possibly muzzled depending on circumstances. If a dog (of any breed) has bad recall it should be kept on lead in open spaces. If ANY dog is well trained and managed correctly there is no problem.

People need to learn how to interact with dogs properly and learn to read body language, if we took note of what they dogs were trying to tell us we could remove them quickly from any negative situations and prevent any injuries or accidents


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kitkat2 said:


> I explained the reason why earlier
> 
> Pit Bulls are dogs, just like other, yes they are prone to certain problems. But if trained properly they will likely never have those problems. If they do they can be managed responsibly. With a dog aggressive dog (of any breed) you can muzzle it and keep it on lead in open areas, if that is done then it can not cause any harm to another dog and it poses no threat. If a dog (of any breed) is dog aggressive then again it should be muzzled and managed appropriately. If a dog (of any breed) has a strong prey drive or herding instinct they should be kept on a lead around any livestock and places where wild animals are, possibly muzzled depending on circumstances. If a dog (of any breed) has bad recall it should be kept on lead in open spaces. If ANY dog is well trained and managed correctly there is no problem.
> 
> ...


i agree... but pits tend to attract the wrong owners that have little business owning any dog really...

therein lies the problem...

pits are fine dogs in the proper hands... but you guys ban guns because of fools getting hold of them... yet a four-footed weapon is fine to have... by any fool.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

do you beleive that all of the attacks on people/children et are because an owner has encouraged it, even if the owner isn't there, and haven't there been cases of attacks on people/children that the dogs know, and isn't it true that they won't let go unlike most other dogs that bite. If any animal is bred to kill then can it be bred out of them and isn't lot of it instinct, I know I'd have never trusted my Jack Russels not to go after a rabbit/squirrel/rat etc and I also know the look Max used to give the carrycot when the grandchildren were babies and he could hear small noises but couldn't see what it was. My Jackies were as daft as they come and never used for hunting etc but I'd have never left them alone with the children or him with the baby, he could have bitten before realizing what it was and the dogs would get fed up with the children wanting to play, if the children then hadn't left them alone they might have got nipped. Which I beleive is the parent dog's way of teaching its young manners, dogs have fur children don't, if that teaching nip came from a big dog that could be a finger gone, and if the dog supposing it was a pit or similar tasted blood wouldn't its instincts to go further kick in. I think theres a reason why certain dogs are used as guard dogs and its not just because of its looks, these dogs don't run away they stand their ground where as many other breeds would run or cower and that is instinct not training. Someone on here mentioned their Alsation that would stand in front of the child even to the parents, how far could that dog have been pushed or stressed before it attacked, I know my little dog would probably defend me but he coudln't do any damage because of his size, a big dog with natural attack/defend instincts is a different thing.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> i agree... but pits tend to attract the wrong owners that have little business owning any dog really...
> 
> therein lies the problem...
> 
> pits are fine dogs in the proper hands... but you guys ban guns because of fools getting hold of them... yet a four-footed weapon is fine to have... by any fool.


It is not 'fine' to have one they are a banned breed for which you must apply for exemption... have you read anything about BSL in the UK? Your misinformed posts suggest not!


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> *do you beleive that all of the attacks on people/children et are because an owner has encouraged it*, even if the owner isn't there, and haven't there been cases of attacks on people/children that the dogs know, and isn't it true that they won't let go unlike most other dogs that bite. If any animal is bred to kill then can it be bred out of them and isn't lot of it instinct, I know I'd have never trusted my Jack Russels not to go after a rabbit/squirrel/rat etc and I also know the look Max used to give the carrycot when the grandchildren were babies and he could hear small noises but couldn't see what it was. My Jackies were as daft as they come and never used for hunting etc but I'd have never left them alone with the children or him with the baby, he could have bitten before realizing what it was and the dogs would get fed up with the children wanting to play, if the children then hadn't left them alone they might have got nipped. Which I beleive is the parent dog's way of teaching its young manners, dogs have fur children don't, if that teaching nip came from a big dog that could be a finger gone, and if the dog supposing it was a pit or similar tasted blood wouldn't its instincts to go further kick in. I think theres a reason why certain dogs are used as guard dogs and its not just because of its looks, these dogs don't run away they stand their ground where as many other breeds would run or cower and that is instinct not training. Someone on here mentioned their Alsation that would stand in front of the child even to the parents, how far could that dog have been pushed or stressed before it attacked, I know my little dog would probably defend me but he coudln't do any damage because of his size, a big dog with natural attack/defend instincts is a different thing.


Can you please answer my earlier question, post #48?

To your statement in bold, the owner does not have to be physically present, it's about how you raise your dog.

Edit: Your little barky thing is apparently more vicious than mine... http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mstypical said:


> It is not 'fine' to have one they are a banned breed for which you must apply for exemption... have you read anything about BSL in the UK? Your misinformed posts suggest not!


no... i'm a yank. i don't live in a nanny state... some dogs are banned in certain places here...

what state in the uk do you live... with their own laws?

how many states does the uk have anyway?... that's always puzzled me... and which ones have banned pits?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> no... i'm a yank. i don't live in a nanny state... some dogs are banned in certain places here...
> 
> what state in the uk do you live... with their own laws?
> 
> how many states does the uk have anyway?... that's always puzzled me... and which ones have banned pits?


Dangerous Dogs Act 1991


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> i agree... but pits tend to attract the wrong owners that have little business owning any dog really...
> 
> therein lies the problem...
> 
> pits are fine dogs in the proper hands... but you guys ban guns because of fools getting hold of them... yet a four-footed weapon is fine to have... by any fool.


But we do not let anyone have one, hence they are banned. In the ideal world everyone would be good responsible owners but that is not the case, but does that then mean innocent pets that have not harmed any other animal should be dragged away from their families and killed or faced of a life full of restrictions. No I dont think it does, that is what my thread was about. They arent all great amazing dogs, I hate people that call them "pibbles" and "nanny dogs" because then everyone thinks they are these amazing soft gentle dogs that will never hurt any child under any circumstances and can let their kids jump around on them, no single breed is "perfect", every dog of every breed can have problems and has boundaries and if their body language is ignored then yes they will retaliate in the only way possible. Just because Pit Bulls are strong doesnt mean they are more likely to bite, strong breeds that will also hold on and more likely to snap in the first place are totally legal? I just dont agree with completely innocent and well managed pets being ripped away from loving families.



annsimpson1 said:


> do you beleive that all of the attacks on people/children et are because an owner has encouraged it, even if the owner isn't there, and haven't there been cases of attacks on people/children that the dogs know, and isn't it true that they won't let go unlike most other dogs that bite. If any animal is bred to kill then can it be bred out of them and isn't lot of it instinct, I know I'd have never trusted my Jack Russels not to go after a rabbit/squirrel/rat etc and I also know the look Max used to give the carrycot when the grandchildren were babies and he could hear small noises but couldn't see what it was. My Jackies were as daft as they come and never used for hunting etc but I'd have never left them alone with the children or him with the baby, he could have bitten before realizing what it was and the dogs would get fed up with the children wanting to play, if the children then hadn't left them alone they might have got nipped. Which I beleive is the parent dog's way of teaching its young manners, dogs have fur children don't, if that teaching nip came from a big dog that could be a finger gone, and if the dog supposing it was a pit or similar tasted blood wouldn't its instincts to go further kick in. I think theres a reason why certain dogs are used as guard dogs and its not just because of its looks, these dogs don't run away they stand their ground where as many other breeds would run or cower and that is instinct not training. Someone on here mentioned their Alsation that would stand in front of the child even to the parents, how far could that dog have been pushed or stressed before it attacked, I know my little dog would probably defend me but he coudln't do any damage because of his size, a big dog with natural attack/defend instincts is a different thing.


As I said any dog of ANY breed can attack, dogs and children should never be left alone unsupervised and the parents should keep a close eye on the dogs body language, the child should be taught not to pull the dog around or jump on it and the parent should not let it happen. Yes some dogs guard and some are strong and some are nippy but that is why you should spend a long time researching the appropriate breed for you, searching breeders and different lines and finding out what breed the breed are like and about the temperament of the breeding line you are looking at.




At the end of the day it is ALL about PEOPLE AND OWNERS being responsible for their dogs. All the while we have people buying a dog because they like the way it looks and not researching the breed. All the while people do not know how to read dog body language. All the while people let children annoy dogs and jump on them. All the while people are irresponsible. Until all that stops we can never stop dog attacks and it isnt the dogs fault, its us humans.




I myself have been researching the breed and lines of my future dog for about 6 months and will not be taking on any dog or puppy for another good year or two, possibly longer. I am aware my breed can be nervous around strangers and have high prey drive, I will do my best to train those problems out and overcome them but if not I am happy to let my dog wear a muzzle and only go off lead in an enclosed area but that is because I am a RESPONSIBLE OWNER!


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm sorry but I believe that while you are there and in control you dog is fine but would you trust it if say someone came around yours when you're not there and met the dog. Suppose someone tried to break in, I know most dogs would bark et but also that most would run and hide, would yours do that or would it 'have a go' and if it did couldn't it then inflict terrible injuries even kill. Its their capability to do so thats the problem, you can't be there all the time and however well you train and your dog behaves would it still be like that by itself. Have there been incidents/attacks where the attacked has survived without terrible injuries or cases where a pit has let go on command? don't most of them have to be killed before they will let go.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> I'm sorry but I believe that while you are there and in control you dog is fine but would you trust it if say someone came around yours when you're not there and met the dog. Suppose someone tried to break in, I know most dogs would bark et but also that most would run and hide, would yours do that or would it 'have a go' and if it did couldn't it then inflict terrible injuries even kill. Its their capability to do so thats the problem, you can't be there all the time and however well you train and your dog behaves would it still be like that by itself. Have there been incidents/attacks where the attacked has survived without terrible injuries or cases where a pit has let go on command? don't most of them have to be killed before they will let go.


Someone broke into my house, took my things including my car keys and left in my car. The dog was home and did nothing.

Even if she had of done, I would have praised her for it!

Oh, and your 'lockjaw' thing is another stupid myth. The fact is their bite is perfect, ie their top teeth fit perfectly into their bottom teeth. I don't know where 'lockjaw' came from but it is not true.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'm a dog owner...

dog people shouldn't fight with one another... but, there are so many breeds of dog and some are right for some people. other dogs are wrong for some people...

like i tell my friends here... owning a dog or dogs is very hard work... if you're doing it right...


now... let's discuss elephant keeping... are elephants dangerous?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

HABU said:


> i'm a dog owner...
> 
> dog people shouldn't fight with one another... but, there are so many breeds of dog and some are right for some people. *other dogs are wrong for some people...*
> 
> ...


Who are you talking about? You come on here, slate all pit owners, then backtrack and joke around? Sorry Habu some of us will never wish to engage with you again


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

HABU said:


> i'm a dog owner...
> 
> dog people shouldn't fight with one another... but, there are so many breeds of dog and some are right for some people. other dogs are wrong for some people...
> 
> ...


I am totally with you, Pit Bulls arent for everyone, but that fact doesnt mean they should all be killed. Labradors arent for me but that doesnt mean I want them all killed.

ALL dogs can be dangerous in the wrong hands, especially large powerful breeds, but if someone understands their breed and owns it responsibly then no that dog should not be ripped away from its family for being the wrong size


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

chihuahuas do have a bad reputation for nippy which is about all they can do but again its down to the owner picking them up instead of socialising them and treating them like a dog. Milo is as daft as they come will say hello to anyone or any dog but even if he wasn't he could do much harm even at his worst. You'd have to be laying on your back with your throat exposed for him to kill and even then I doubt his mouth would be big enough, a pit could tear your throat out with one bite should it choose to.Tell of my dog and he melts tell of a pit and would it pay attention. Milo is a cross, papillon mother, chi father and isn't the typical yappy small dog, he does bark but no more than any other and will stop when told he rarely gets carried unless it becomes to busy around the market and he might get trodden on but 99% of the time he walks, waits patiently in the car if he has to be left and is only 10months old, we picked a small dog so he could come every where with us ie the bikes and is the most affectionate dog we've ever had.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> chihuahuas do have a bad reputation for nippy which is about all they can do but again its down to the owner picking them up instead of socialising them and treating them like a dog. Milo is as daft as they come will say hello to anyone or any dog but even if he wasn't he could do much harm even at his worst. You'd have to be laying on your back with your throat exposed for him to kill and even then I doubt his mouth would be big enough, a pit could tear your throat out with one bite *should it choose to*.Tell of my dog and he melts tell of a pit and would it pay attention.


I could find you and kill you, *should I choose to*. Doesn't mean I will, or I am likely to.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

one question, if pits are a banned breed then why isn't more being done to stop them being bred in this country, surely it can't be hard to find breeders and stop them.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

annsimpson1 said:


> one question, if pits are a banned breed then why isn't more being done to stop them being bred in this country, surely it can't be hard to find breeders and stop them.


Because they are not a BREED they are a TYPE. Any mongrel could be typed as 'pit bull'. Seriously, people should do a basic Google search before spouting utter rubbish.

I notice you fail to respond to my questions consistently.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

annsimpson1 said:


> one question, if pits are a banned breed then why isn't more being done to stop them being bred in this country, surely it can't be hard to find breeders and stop them.


Any dog that is typed is neutered, but any staffy type or staffy x or any dog can be Pit Type even if it has not got any Pit Bull blood in it, it is all based on looks so a Staff x Lab can be classes as pit bull type


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

This thread has raised some really good points and also has shown that there is still a lot of ignorance from people regarding pit bulls and other bull breed types.
-Chels


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