# The Lacertid thread :)



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I thought that with a few people having clutches of Eyed lizards hatch and more due, now would be a good time to start this thread. Any informations, tips and experiences are welcomed as there isn't exactly an abundance of info around.

My second clutch hatched last week and the first clutch are doing well, I have picked a keeper so the others will shortly be avilable to reserve, as they are growing like weeds now!

I managed to get the photos I have been promising for a while of the parents of these clutches. The camera loses a bit of the green, the male is really bright emerald, but you get the idea! The female is still looking battered from breeding but theres definitely no more clutches on the way so she should soon regain her former beauty!

Here's the parents, the male is reluctantly tolerant of handling now, but needs a lot of respect! He didn't to bad at all considering he has only been handled a few times. He is patternless, so we are holding back a well spotted male from the young.


















and the female:










The babies are a pain to cactch out the viv but once in a rub, they let me hold them quite easily and flattened onto my hand for warmth.

There are patternless babies and spotted babies:


















Some of the babies had an obvious green sheen that unfortunately turned to bronze in the photos. I am confident that a few of them are male though. Here is our spotty keeper 'male':










I look forward to other people's contributions!


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

They all look lovely. This thread is a good idea - we will have to make sure it stays alive. I will post some pics of my lepidus tomorrow - too cream crackered tonight!


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Notlookingnotlookingnotlooking..........


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

jools said:


> They all look lovely. This thread is a good idea - we will have to make sure it stays alive. I will post some pics of my lepidus tomorrow - too cream crackered tonight!


That would be great, the more the merrier!



Big Red One said:


> Notlookingnotlookingnotlooking..........


LookLookLookLookLook

You know you want to lol!

Here's another..... 










One of my sub/adult females that should breed next year : victory:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I take it they are pater.I am so surprised that they are handleable.
To really bring the colours out put them outdoors,at least for the summer.You will be amazed at what a difference natural sunlight can make.Sure it makes them more nervous but its well worth it.I have my Lacertids in half covered cold frames and vivaria, they really benefit from sunlight,its much better than any bulbs or tubes.You will notice that animals will turn from brown or turquoise green to emerald green.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

colinm said:


> I take it they are pater.I am so surprised that they are handleable.
> To really bring the colours out put them outdoors,at least for the summer.You will be amazed at what a difference natural sunlight can make.Sure it makes them more nervous but its well worth it.I have my Lacertids in half covered cold frames and vivaria, they really benefit from sunlight,its much better than any bulbs or tubes.You will notice that animals will turn from brown or turquoise green to emerald green.


Yes, the are pater. We move house soon and hope to do this - the male is quite emerald but the photos really don't show this. I'd love to see them outside. They have a 12% arcadia currently.

The babies are scatty in the viv but once caught are fairly settled. The adult male is smart and will tolerate handling once he realises you just want him to sit on your hand. He has rarely been handled though and will bite if given the chance..... which I try not to give him after seeing the muscles in his mouth!


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Any lacertid news today??! :2thumb:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Well, you know I am here with up to 40 eggs Lepida cooking away. All looking good despite the 35degree emergancy the other week. Females now need to put on a bit of weight but both seem to be coping better this year. Your babies look good, the spotted ones are like Lepida hatchlings. Probably a good idea to get your females out in the sun for a few hours a week, that will help them to pick up again and prevent vit.A deficency.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

jeweled lady said:


> Well, you know I am here with up to 40 eggs Lepida cooking away. All looking good despite the 35degree emergancy the other week. Females now need to put on a bit of weight but both seem to be coping better this year. Your babies look good, the spotted ones are like Lepida hatchlings. Probably a good idea to get your females out in the sun for a few hours a week, that will help them to pick up again and prevent vit.A deficency.


I will definitely do this, it's a bit awkward as the sun doesn't really shine directly on our garden, I will have to nip across the road with them! Do you have any info on vit A deficiency, what to look for etc.? All I know is that they are prone to it, and I think it can affect the eyes?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

You're right it does affect the eyes. They get weepy and the eyelids stick together. Once they get it, it is very difficult to get rid of. The females use up so much reserve with laying, that's why I said try and get them outside for a few hours. You can put them in a plasic tub with wire over it.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

My second, smaller, clutch have started sweating. I can't believe how much the first clutch of lepidus have grown - little fatty bum bums. I promised pics today but I have worked a long day and my baby Leos take best part of 1 hour to sort out plus my adults on top. Got a damn OH to keep from moaning too lmao!


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

jools said:


> My second, smaller, clutch have started sweating. I can't believe how much the first clutch of lepidus have grown - little fatty bum bums. I promised pics today but I have worked a long day and my baby Leos take best part of 1 hour to sort out plus my adults on top. Got a damn OH to keep from moaning too lmao!


Congrats! I know the feeling it took me several weeks to finally get my pics lol. How many are in this clutch? I think I only have another two weeks or so until my third clutch hatches, I will be overrun!


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

*summerhead*

There seems to be alot of confusion here. Lizards benefit from sunshine because of the UV light. It has nothing to do with Vit A. Its important to gut load feeder insects with green leaves and carrots, and other veg rich in beta carotene, for the vit A, and for good coloured lizards !

Lizards like we do convert beta carotene into vit A, which is important for healthy eyes. You can use multi vits, but you can easily overdose that way. Using beta carotene rather than vit A allows the lizards to use /convert what they need. Its what they do in the wild.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Blaptica said:


> There seems to be alot of confusion here. Lizards benefit from sunshine because of the UV light. It has nothing to do with Vit A. Its important to gut load feeder insects with green leaves and carrots, and other veg rich in beta carotene, for the vit A, and for good coloured lizards !
> 
> Lizards like we do convert beta carotene into vit A, which is important for healthy eyes. You can use multi vits, but you can easily overdose that way. Using beta carotene rather than vit A allows the lizards to use /convert what they need. Its what they do in the wild.


yeah, thats why we feed mainly dubia roaches to the adultsand larger babies because the roaches eat a massive amount so you can get plenty of vitamins in them, we feed our roaches various leafy greens, kale, watercress, rocket and things like butternut squash, carrots and sweet potato.
although the pictures don't pick it up brilliantly, the adult male is quite emerald green in colour and the male babies are already showing some green even though they are only a couple of months old. The female appears to be regaining condition well also.
There is still definate benefits to proper sunshine though and we hope to get them outside soon for summer and when we eventually move house we are hoping to set up a group to live out all year and then we can compare differences.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Thought I'd bump up this thread, my first few baby Timons have left home, and the third clutch is due any day. My keeper male is really coloured up now, I'll get some updated photos soon as I can.

Anyone else have any updates on clutches/hatchlings?


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Is that three clutches from one female?Is that good for her? would it not be good to give her a rest?I assume that the second and third clutches are smaller than the first.
These aren`t accusations just questions :2thumb:


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

colinm said:


> Is that three clutches from one female?Is that good for her? would it not be good to give her a rest?I assume that the second and third clutches are smaller than the first.
> These aren`t accusations just questions :2thumb:


Yes it was three from the same female, 11, 11 and ten, all but a couple were fertile (although I lost a few in incubation). We didn't intend on breeding them at all this year, they weren't cooled or anything, except natural variation in room temp and light) and we certainly didn't expect the third clutch, as I was under the impression they only laid one or two clutches a year, and then only if cooled. But she has stopped laying and has been separated now and is looking really good. I was suprised she never really lost condition either, but we are very careful to give a varied diet of well gutloaded food, with good supplementation.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Does anyone on here keep anything other than lepida and the related species? Ireally love the Wall Lizards and have kept these over the years.At present I have a pair of Podarcis muralis nigriventis outside and some Lacerta strigata.The latter are lovely lizards they remind me a little of a sand Lizard or Shreibers Lizard.Talking of which does anyone breed Shreibers?I would like to pick your brains as I have found them very difficult.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

I keep shrieberi. They are beautiful lizards....










....gravid females










....newly hatched 










....they lose the yellow colouration after a few days. These are about 3 weeks old.










I keep them outdoors from late spring until November and then hibernate them at around 5c until then end of February. I then keep them indoors in the spring until they have laid eggs and then they go outside again.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

They are truly gorgeous lizards Peter,well done.I had eye problems and respiratory problems when I kept mine.I trust that you have not had these as they look like great adults.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks for sharing your pics with us. Lovely looking lizards. The male has outstanding colour. It's great to hear you keep yours outside. I've got Bilineata and Lepida. All are well spotted and lovely bright green.

How many Shrieberi do you have?

At the moment I am waiting on 40 Lepida eggs hatching! I think I shall be over run with hatchlings!


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

We have five more hatchlings and the rest have slit their eggs now. Now I can compare hatchlings to the older lcutches, it's amazing to see how much they have grown in such a short time!

We have a lot more patternless in the 2nd and 3rd clutch, we are wondering if it is codominant. 

I agree the shrieberi are stunning!


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

As I am now a lacertid keeper thanks to 'Redgex' I feel I can post again here. 

I wanted some Italian wall lizards and thought I had some sourced but they didn't have the paperwork. :censor:

Anyway I now have some timon pater and will hopefully add to these soon enough. I am planning on keeping them outside all year round and am currently building the enclosures. 

I've dug 45/50 cm down and have made hibernaculum from plastic tubs, with added insulation. These have drainpipe with mesh inside to allow the Timon to climb up and down and will also provide a cool area if required in the summer.

Still a work in progress but the little guys need a bit more growing on before I will let them loose outside as I am paranoid about losing them. But I want them out and settled prior to autumn so that they can hopefully hibernate successfully.
My main concern at the moment is water ingress to the tubs, don't want them flooding. They do have water drain holes, as does the drainpipe - but once they are in and buried that will be it. Don't want to see the Timon go down and never resurface !! :gasp:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

I have got some small lizards in a plastic tub. I have cut two squares out the bottom and then covered the holes with small mesh. That allows free drainage as the tub is buried in the ground. With the monsoon rain we had the other week, I just covered the top, otherwise the rain has not caused any problems.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

jeweled lady said:


> I have got some small lizards in a plastic tub. I have cut two squares out the bottom and then covered the holes with small mesh. That allows free drainage as the tub is buried in the ground. With the monsoon rain we had the other week, I just covered the top, otherwise the rain has not caused any problems.


Thanks - was thinking of doing that, gets them outside in the sun but safe and secure!

Appreciate the tip! :2thumb:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Also, you can adapt the lid by cutting out a large section, drilling some holes around the open edge and then fitting small mesh over it. I have threaded thin wire through the holes and haypresto, a very secure but well ventilated outdoor viv. with an easy removable lid!


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

peterwilkes said:


> I keep shrieberi. They are beautiful lizards....
> 
> image
> 
> ...


It is difficult to put into words how beautiful I think those lizards are. I am not allowed to keep them here, but I can see them in the wild, in the Serra Estrela Mountains an hour and a half drive from here. I must go and see them again soon !


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

colinm said:


> Does anyone on here keep anything other than lepida and the related species? Ireally love the Wall Lizards and have kept these over the years.At present I have a pair of Podarcis muralis nigriventis outside and some Lacerta strigata.The latter are lovely lizards they remind me a little of a sand Lizard or Shreibers Lizard.Talking of which does anyone breed Shreibers?I would like to pick your brains as I have found them very difficult.


Colin please, please, please pm me when you have some young P.m.nigriventis available, I have been after some of these for years

Ben


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I wonder who we have to thnk for the North African Eyed Lizards:whistling2: Its nice to see them being bred now.
More questions,does anyone breed the black lepida or pater? Now they are nice lizards but lost to the hobby I think.
Ben,I doubt that I will have any nigriventis this year I need to build up a small colony,sorry.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

colinm said:


> I wonder who we have to thnk for the North African Eyed Lizards:whistling2: Its nice to see them being bred now.
> More questions,does anyone breed the black lepida or pater? Now they are nice lizards but lost to the hobby I think.
> Ben,I doubt that I will have any nigriventis this year I need to build up a small colony,sorry.


Im in no rush, keep me posted.

The black lepida are lovely ... one day:whistling2: (quietly hoping the mrs isn't checking on me)


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

*Lepida Eggs*

Exciting News:- First of the Lepida babies hatching tonight from the first batch.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I had these a few years back but they turned grey as they grew.Not as nice as the ones Bert Langerwerf used to breed.These were proper melanistic ones.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

jeweled lady said:


> Exciting News:- First of the Lepida babies hatching tonight from the first batch.


 Were these the ones that got very hot for a while?


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## Tiliqua (Dec 6, 2008)

peterwilkes said:


> I keep shrieberi. They are beautiful lizards....
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Peter your schreiberi are unbelievably beautiful. I've seen them in the wild in northern Spain and they weren't as nice as yours!

Cheers,
Mark.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

colinm said:


> Were these the ones that got very hot for a while?


Yep, these are the ones that went up to 35 degrees, so far it doesn't look as if any eggs have failed but lets wait and see over the next few days. Also they are right on time for hatching.

I didn't know Bert bred melanistic Lepida. I thought he kept to natural markings on reps. My Lepida have fantastic bright colour and markings.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

jeweled lady said:


> .
> 
> I didn't know Bert bred melanistic Lepida. I thought he kept to natural markings on reps. My Lepida have fantastic bright colour and markings.


 He did when he was in The Netherlands about thirty years ago but it seems that no one kept the strain going :gasp:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Bert wasn't breeding melanistic lepidus 30 years ago. 

What he bred were _'Lacerta lepida pater'_ the then latin name for _Timon pater_. At that time the european eyeds were _lacerta lepida lepida_ and the the North African ones _lacerta lepida pater._ Bert had bred North African ones and European ones together and found that the young were infertile. This was evidence they were not the same species. He worked with a German Herpetologist who then renamed them, splitting them into two species. 

But to further complicate things later on the North African ones were split into two species _Timon pater and Timon tangitanus. _He collected the first founder stock of Timon from Morroco. So in fact they were Timon tangitanus not pater as many people think ! From those some melanistic ones were created by chance. As you say Colin he went travelling around the world and in the mean time the strain was lost. 

Since then a Scandinavian _Timon lepidus_ breeder found by chance bred a melanistic hatchling. From that more melanistic lepidus have been created. In the last few years of his life Bert managed to get hold of some of those and I saw some in the flesh when I visited his farm in 2007. You can read about it in his autobiography which I recommend. Unfortunately the one downside of the book is that there is a picture of me in there (luckily not a very good picture).


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

colinm said:


> They are truly gorgeous lizards Peter,well done.I had eye problems and respiratory problems when I kept mine.I trust that you have not had these as they look like great adults.


I`ve not had any problems like that. Did you keep them in an indoor terrarium? 



jeweled lady said:


> Thanks for sharing your pics with us. Lovely looking lizards. The male has outstanding colour. It's great to hear you keep yours outside. I've got Bilineata and Lepida. All are well spotted and lovely bright green.
> 
> How many Shrieberi do you have?
> 
> At the moment I am waiting on 40 Lepida eggs hatching! I think I shall be over run with hatchlings!


Congrats with the eggs and hatchlings. At the moment I have 1,5,13.





Blaptica said:


> It is difficult to put into words how beautiful I think those lizards are. I am not allowed to keep them here, but I can see them in the wild, in the Serra Estrela Mountains an hour and a half drive from here. I must go and see them again soon !





Tiliqua said:


> Peter your schreiberi are unbelievably beautiful. I've seen them in the wild in northern Spain and they weren't as nice as yours!
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark.


The locality on the females I`m told is Sierra de Gredos, Spain. They are animals from and desendents of them from Bert.
Thank you everybody for all for the kind comments.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I kept mine inside but found them more difficult than other Lacertids and the young that I put outside fared no better.Do you find that they like lower temperatutes than other Lacertids?


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> Bert wasn't breeding melanistic lepidus 30 years ago.
> 
> What he bred were _'Lacerta lepida pater'_ the then latin name for _Timon pater_. At that time the european eyeds were _lacerta lepida lepida_ and the the North African ones _lacerta lepida pater._ Bert had bred North African ones and European ones together and found that the young were infertile. This was evidence they were not the same species. He worked with a German Herpetologist who then renamed them, splitting them into two species.
> 
> ...


 I stand corrected though the ones that i was sold in Gemany were sold as lepida.Then again its difficult to tell them apart when they are black.There used to be articles on the German site about them but sadly they are no longer there..


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

I don´t treat them any differently to the other green lizard species I have but they are a montane species so a good drop in temperature at night is probably benificial for them.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Do you keep strigata? I have some and am wondering whether to leave them outside this winter,the cold shouldn`t be a problem but I guess the damp might be.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

I keep a few other lacertas. These are bilineata.

Male










Female



















Hatchling










Juveniles approx 9 months.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

colinm said:


> Do you keep strigata? I have some and am wondering whether to leave them outside this winter,the cold shouldn`t be a problem but I guess the damp might be.


I kept them a few years ago. Unfortunately I lost the female with a retained egg. I´m looking to get some more soon. I have a friend here in Denmark that has kept them outside for several years now. It´s nearly as damp and miserable here in the winter as in the UK so they should be ok. The cold is no problem.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

I am really loving this thread, lacertas are one of my favourites & massively underwater in my opinion.

Does anyone have photos they could post of the melanistic pater, I'm sure I can imagine but would really like to see them properly?


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Nice bilineata Peter.I was hoping to breed mine this year.Do you find that you need more than one male in a vivarium to induce mating?I have mine in pairs and the males showed little interest in the females.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

It's great to see these other species, does anyone keep tangitanus?

Also it would be really nice to see peoples outdoor setups. It something we plan to do this year all being well, so we can put some of our young pater outside from the start; I have heard it is risky to put them outside after they have spent a winter inside. Does anyone have any experience with putting older lizards outisde?

Photos of melanistic pater would be great, I agree!


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

I think you will need a greenhouse, or some warmer shelter for Pater for the early and later part of the year and then hibernate them in a cold place. They should not be hibernated outside like Lepida if we had a cold winter like last year. I am sure Mark will put you straight.

My Lepida have survived well at very low temperatures as they are European but Pater come from Africa, so require a higher temperature.

I love the Bilineata pics. My female is even more beautiful with lots of spots.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

*Barbs Pics*

Female Bilineata









Juvenile Bilineata









Female Timon Lepida who's eggs are hatching at the moment








Male and Female Lepida Outside Vivaria


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

RedGex,I have put lizards outside that have been kept inside and had mixed results.Some adults that I put out in September didn`t hibernate and died.I put youngsters that I had grown on through the winter out in March and they hibernated without a problem the following winter.
In my opinion its touch and go and I would say its best to expect losses.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

colinm said:


> RedGex,I have put lizards outside that have been kept inside and had mixed results.Some adults that I put out in September didn`t hibernate and died.I put youngsters that I had grown on through the winter out in March and they hibernated without a problem the following winter.
> In my opinion its touch and go and I would say its best to expect losses.


 
Thanks, it's good to know it's possible. I will probably put my adults outside in summer and bring them in to hibernate them in a fridge, at least at first. I will certainly put my young ones out this year, asap, and see how we go.

Jeweled lady - your bilineata female is absolutely stunning!


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

*wax and wane*



phelsumaman said:


> I am really loving this thread, lacertas are one of my favourites & massively underwater in my opinion.
> 
> Does anyone have photos they could post of the melanistic pater, I'm sure I can imagine but would really like to see them properly?


Melanistic pater have never existed in the hobby. You mean melanistic tangitanus ?


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

peterwilkes said:


> I keep shrieberi. They are beautiful lizards....
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Thats a lovely looking male.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

jeweled lady said:


> I think you will need a greenhouse, or some warmer shelter for Pater for the early and later part of the year and then hibernate them in a cold place. They should not be hibernated outside like Lepida if we had a cold winter like last year. I am sure Mark will put you straight.
> 
> My Lepida have survived well at very low temperatures as they are European but Pater come from Africa, so require a higher temperature.
> 
> I love the Bilineata pics. My female is even more beautiful with lots of spots.


I have kept T. Pater and T. tangitanus in outdoor enclosures in Portugal for several winters. These enclosures DO NOT have plastic/glass covering them. I cannot remember losing any of them over winter. We get at least 30 frosts each winter including temps down to minus seven celsius. The ground will be warmer here as day temps tend to be around 5c warmer than say London on average. But still pater and tangitanus are pretty hardy. Langerwerf kept tangitanus in unheated greenhouses in Holland. 

I would using greenhouses or similar structures for them during the colder half of the year at least in the UK.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

colinm said:


> Nice bilineata Peter.I was hoping to breed mine this year.Do you find that you need more than one male in a vivarium to induce mating?I have mine in pairs and the males showed little interest in the females.


I have mine in pairs as well. The males are always interested in the females during the spring.



jeweled lady said:


> I think you will need a greenhouse, or some warmer shelter for Pater for the early and later part of the year and then hibernate them in a cold place. They should not be hibernated outside like Lepida if we had a cold winter like last year. I am sure Mark will put you straight.
> 
> My Lepida have survived well at very low temperatures as they are European but Pater come from Africa, so require a higher temperature.
> 
> I love the Bilineata pics. My female is even more beautiful with lots of spots.


Your female is fantastic. Love the dark markings. 
Nice lepidus too. I can never get a decent picture of mine outdoors as they are very shy. I actually saw my male lepidus eat in their outdoor terrarium earlier this week. That´s the first time in 9 years!


Blaptica said:


> I have kept T. Pater and T. tangitanus in outdoor enclosures in Portugal for several winters. These enclosures DO NOT have plastic/glass covering them. I cannot remember losing any of them over winter. We get at least 30 frosts each winter including temps down to minus seven celsius. The ground will be warmer here as day temps tend to be around 5c warmer than say London on average. But still pater and tangitanus are pretty hardy. Langerwerf kept tangitanus in unheated greenhouses in Holland.
> 
> I would using greenhouses or similar structures for them during the colder half of the year at least in the UK.


I´ve kept pater outdoors here in Denmark from spring until late autumn in terrariums half covered with glass without problems. Babies on hatching have also gone directly outside.
Do you have locality on your pater Mark?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

*Lepida*



peterwilkes said:


> I have mine in pairs as well. The males are always interested in the females during the spring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

HI Peter

re pater, sorry no I do not know the exact locality for the pater. Mine came from Matthias Otts (Germany) if that helps. Do you know the origin of yours ?


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

Mine were from Matthias as well.


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## kerrithsoden (Dec 6, 2009)

I must say after seeing my first eyed lizard in the flesh a few years ago I am loving this thread!

Can Timon lepida be kept out doors year round in the UK?

Anybody got any links to good caresheets?


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

kerrithsoden said:


> I must say after seeing my first eyed lizard in the flesh a few years ago I am loving this thread!
> 
> Can Timon lepida be kept out doors year round in the UK?
> 
> Anybody got any links to good caresheets?


Depending on where in the UK you are, the general consensus appears to be that they can be kept outside with some management, like using a greenhouse or similar and providing somewhere for them to get underground and hibernate.

If I get chance I can pm some info...


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

kerrithsoden said:


> I must say after seeing my first eyed lizard in the flesh a few years ago I am loving this thread!
> 
> Can Timon lepida be kept out doors year round in the UK?
> 
> Anybody got any links to good caresheets?


Just ask away, mine have lived outside all year round for several years now. 

Just four more babies to hatch now, all looking good!:2thumb:


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## kerrithsoden (Dec 6, 2009)

Big Red One said:


> Depending on where in the UK you are, the general consensus appears to be that they can be kept outside with some management, like using a greenhouse or similar and providing somewhere for them to get underground and hibernate.
> 
> If I get chance I can pm some info...


Thanks dude, that would be brill!! I am in Wiltshire



jeweled lady said:


> Just ask away, mine have lived outside all year round for several years now.
> 
> Just four more babies to hatch now, all looking good!:2thumb:


wicked! I was thinking like what you would use to bring on spring greens for housing, like a raised bed with slanted roof with a perspex window for viewing and heating, obviously adjustments needed and a 4 footer.
How does that sound. How do you provide UV?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

kerrithsoden said:


> Thanks dude, that would be brill!! I am in Wiltshire
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is my Lepida compound. It's rather more overgrown now. It is 10'x10' and houses a pair. I would say nothing less than 6', they are big lizards and like to dig tunnells. The sun is all they need.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Last eggs hatched today. Six days for them all to hatch!:2thumb:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

*Lepida Hatchlings*

The babies had their first day out in the sun. It's been hot, too hot really but a few were busy sunning themselves. All the eggs hatched, so in this batch there are 18. the other batch are not due to hatch till middle August.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Congratulations- excellent result.

My second batch has started to hatch - only 8 eggs in this clutch - so fingers crossed.

The first batch are doing brilliantly but they all look identical. At what sort of age should they become sexually dimorphic? Or have I got all boys (or girls) :gasp:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

You may have some idea before you hibernate them in the Autumn but certainly next spring. The earliest really is to look at the width of the head. Also the females tend to be more retiring. If you have some bold ones always after food, they are probably male.

Good luck with the new batch!


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

jeweled lady said:


> You may have some idea before you hibernate them in the Autumn but certainly next spring. The earliest really is to look at the width of the head. Also the females tend to be more retiring. If you have some bold ones always after food, they are probably male.
> 
> Good luck with the new batch!


Thanks jeweled lady :2thumb:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I just took this pic this morning of my first batch. Oh my - how they have grown. I have now split them up so that there are only 4 in a viv as they were starting to look rather overcrowded.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking good Julie !

I will help the overcrowding situation soon....just need to get 'home' finished!

If you could sex them it would help me ;0)


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

All looking good and plump!


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

jeweled lady said:


> All looking good and plump!


Yes - a bit too plump IMO :lol2:.
On the plus side there are no runty ones and none look as if they have been bullied / dominated.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah I found five eggs from my Lacerta strigata today.They look good so heres crossing my fingers and toes.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

That's good, let me know when they hatch.

My Lepida hatchlings are feeding well. I have another batch due to hatch in August, so I will need to start shifting the babies next month, so if anyone want some let me know.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

I picked up some babies of Podarcis vaucheri a few days ago.










They are one of of the old hispanica subspeices from Oukameiden in the Atlas mountains in Morocco where they found at an altitude of 2800 metres. Apparently males are tolerant of each other and can be kept in groups with any skirmishes being brief. They will wave to each other bearded dragon fashion. Youngsters have a blue tail which disappears with age.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Very pretty - congrats. How many did you get? What size do they grow to? Do you keep them inside or outdoors?


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Lovely those Peter.
As Jools has asked, how are these kept? Are they listed under any protected species list?


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks guys. I have them in an outdoor terrarium at the moment. They should be able to handle a long cold hibernation.
They are not protected as far as I know.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

How's everybodys Lepida doing this year? any gravid females?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

*Eyed Lizards*

I have had quite a few Timon Lepida eggs hatch, so putting some of the hatchlings up for sale, if anyone is interested, you know who I am.:lol2:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Its been a bit quiet on here recently.
I have had a disappointing year due to the weather mainly,no bilineata eggs and only a few strigata.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Yes, I understand for the outdoor ones it has. It was such a slow start in the spring. These hatchlings are from my indoor pair, which doubled clutched for the first time, so plenty hatchlings for sale.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

A few pictures of my viridis enjoying the autumn sunshine....


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Some shots taken a couple a days ago of some mystery lizard hatchlings. 

Colin, I know you know what they are !!!





Clue. This last one includes a Timon tangitanus (the brown one).


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

Melanistic tangitanus?


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

peterwilkes said:


> Melanistic tangitanus?


That was my thoughts ....

Have these been resurrected ?


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

The honest answer is that I am not 100% sure what they are. I believe they are either Timon tangitanus or Timon lepidus. I believe them to be the later. I will do some breeding experiments starting from next year to find out for sure. 

I imported some 1 year olds a few months ago, and got a few eggs off them. Originally this strain was kept by Bert Langerwerf in the US. Shortly after his sad early death, Linda Switzer of Switzer reptiles managed to get a few of these lizards from the family and saved this form from being lost. At the time of his death, Bert only had a small number of these lizards. 

I am going to be describing this form as the the 'Langerwerf-Switzer' line, as without both of these people, it almost certainly would not exist today. There is already another melanistic strain of lepidus, almost certainly NOT related to this one. In this other form, the young ones start very black, but the lizards become much brighter as they grow, being virtually indistinct from normal lepidus as adults. 

In this 'langerwerf-Switzer' line, the lizards stay black. The young adults I have are certainly stunning. I will be selling some spare males later in the year. This appears to be a simple recessive type gene, so with a little patience, plenty more of these gorgeous lizards can be produced.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

That's great news....
I remember reading about these a few years back, certainly an intriguing story !

I must say though that I prefer the green monsters.

:2thumb:


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Big Red One said:


> That's great news....
> I remember reading about these a few years back, certainly an intriguing story !
> 
> I must say though that I prefer the green monsters.
> ...


You might be getting confused with the original Black Timon (tangitanus), and I am 99% these are not related, but Bert is the connecting link.

Yes, like all 'morphs', the originals are still the best. But these are still for me very interesting and beautiful. 

Presumably, Eyed lizards are green, to blend in with their environment. One plus with these melanistic ones, is that when kept outdoors in the Uk and other northern countries, they might do better being black ? Obviously predation should be no problem in captivity, but the darker coloration would help no end with warming up in cooler climates.


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## Rob_H (Apr 19, 2010)

Fantastic!

Have you noticed any differences in how the normal animals behave towards the melanistics by any chance?

Very cool.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I haven't tried mixing normal ones with melanistics yet. By the time I recieved these new ones, all my female Timon had already been mated in the season, so it would be very difficult to be sure of the parentage of the young ones. 

I think I have read though that melanistic females may be ignored by the normal males, especially if they have normal females as an alternative, but that melanistic males will mate with either type.


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

A nice sunny ten degrees here today in Denmark. I had a look around for any signs of life in my outdoor terrariums.There were a few lizards out enjoying the weak autumn sun. All the viridis, schreiberi and agilis seem to have dug down for the winter but I saw a bilineata male, a muralis pair, a trio of siculus and a lepidus male.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

They look in perfect health. Thanks for the pictures.


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## DannyDee (Nov 5, 2008)

peterwilkes said:


> A nice sunny ten degrees here today in Denmark. I had a look around for any signs of life in my outdoor terrariums.There were a few lizards out enjoying the weak autumn sun. All the viridis, schreiberi and agilis seem to have dug down for the winter but I saw a bilineata male, a muralis pair, a trio of siculus and a lepidus male.
> 
> [URL=http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p44/Peterwilkes/P1070971_zps3eb9e30f.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> [URL=http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p44/Peterwilkes/P1070990_zps2e868587.jpg]image[/URL]


Fantastic lizards!


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## peterwilkes (Aug 5, 2008)

The first lacerta to emerge this year, a male viridis, enjoying the sun.


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