# Ceramic heat emitters and RUBs



## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

Hello friends 

So I have a couple of questions I need some insight on from more experienced keepers. I just got my first snake, Aurora the BRB, a few weeks ago, she’s about 3 months old now. She’s doing fine, I’ve set her up in a 84L RUB (44 x 71 x 38 cm). I picked a larger rub than needed and decorated it pretty heavily to make sure that she feels safe, this way it will also last a year or a little more till she needs an upgrade.

I’m starting to rethink her heat come winter though. And this is where I need help. Currently I’m using a 12W heat mat under the RUB which is doing great for now. She rarely ever uses her hot hide anyway and seems to prefer the cold side of the tank or the humid hide which I placed right in the middle. The issue is that temperatures will get a lot colder in winter. I live in Scotland, in an old tenement flat with single glazing. So not only is it frigid and windy up here, heat retention is kinda crap in this house. I’m still on my old fixed energy tariff till December so it won’t be too expensive to keep the room she’s in warm at night when the heating’s off in the rest of the house for the next couple of months. My concern is afterwards when we start having to cut down on use, keeping that room heated will cost a lot, and electricity is much cheaper than gas. Is there any way to safely use a ceramic heat emitter with a rub?

I thought maybe I could cut out a bit of the top and attach some mesh then place the heat lamp there? But that would probably really mess up my humidity especially in winter when humidity in the house will get so low because of the central heating. I know that BRBs can tolerate cooler air temps at night compared to most snakes but surely not if the ambient air temperature in the room is around 15 degrees celsius right? Let me know what you guys think.

I’ve attached pics of the enclosure and Aurora (snake isn’t really relevant but I love her and can’t stop showing her off 🤣)


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

My BRBs seem to appreciate a hot side around 82-85F; the cool side is probably about 75F. If your boa stays off the hot spot, it is likely too warm for the snake's preferences. I assume it is thermostatically controlled and checked with an IR tempgun -- if not, it needs to be.



Stalwartpigeon said:


> She rarely ever uses her hot hide anyway and seems to prefer the cold side of the tank or the humid hide which I placed right in the middle.


This set up might be problematic in that if the snake wants a certain temp it seems it is forced to choose the humid hide (relatedly, if wants the moisture it is forced to be at some certain temp which may or not be the right temp at that time). Best to figure out how to provide both thermal and moisture gradients so that the snake can be cooler and dryer, warmer and drier, and so on.

Snakes like BRBs that seem to appreciate only slight thermal gradients are good candidates for enclosures that hold heat well -- so, tubs in a solid sided rack, or PVC enclosures, or I guess the wood ones that seem common in the UK (I'm in US; almost no one uses wood enclosures though they seem to have a lot of advantages).


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## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

Malum Argenteum said:


> My BRBs seem to appreciate a hot side around 82-85F; the cool side is probably about 75F. If your boa stays off the hot spot, it is likely too warm for the snake's preferences. I assume it is thermostatically controlled and checked with an IR tempgun -- if not, it needs to be.
> 
> 
> This set up might be problematic in that if the snake wants a certain temp it seems it is forced to choose the humid hide (relatedly, if wants the moisture it is forced to be at some certain temp which may or not be the right temp at that time). Best to figure out how to provide both thermal and moisture gradients so that the snake can be cooler and dryer, warmer and drier, and so on.
> ...


My hot side is the same as yours and it is checked with a temp gun and controlled by a thermostat. Humidity throughout the enclosure stays around 90% anyway since she’s a baby I keep it high so it’s not like she’s having to be dry to be warm or anything like that. My issue is more related to the ambient air temperature dropping not any of the things you’ve mentioned.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

I would rethink the husbandry all together. Having a hot CHE near a plastic RUB is going to be dangerous. Whilst I've just switched the majority of my Royals over to mats in their vivs rather than the CHE's, AFAIK BRBs really need a warm humid environment and boa's tend to be more susceptible to RI's than pythons . So that's either an all glass vivarium and then externally insulate the top, sides and back with styrene based insulation, or get a wooden vivarium, both of which will retain heat better.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mats don't raise the ambient air temperature. In your situation I think you need to reconsider the enclosure. One option could be to get a suitable adult enclosure and place the rub inside that. A decent sized wood enclosure, with all the joints sealed with aquarium grade sealant will work well. This can be heated via a ceramic on a pulse stat. You can do the sealing in the spring when it's warmer so that the existing set up doesn't need to be inside it.
Keeping a rainbow boa in a plastic box on a mat with the external air temperature of just 15C is asking for problems.


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## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> Mats don't raise the ambient air temperature. In your situation I think you need to reconsider the enclosure. One option could be to get a suitable adult enclosure and place the rub inside that. A decent sized wood enclosure, with all the joints sealed with aquarium grade sealant will work well. This can be heated via a ceramic on a pulse stat. You can do the sealing in the spring when it's warmer so that the existing set up doesn't need to be inside it.
> Keeping a rainbow boa in a plastic box on a mat with the external air temperature of just 15C is asking for problems.


I’m aware that it will be an issue. That’s why I came here in advance of when it will become an issue haha. I also posted on a group on facebook. A guy said that he has had success with overhead heat in RUBs with a DHP bulb, as they don’t heat up as much as CHE emitters but still provide more than enough heat to properly heat the enclosure. He gave me his instructions as to how he’s DIYed his own ones so far and he’s never had issues with the plastic burning/melting or anything. He basically cuts out a hole the size of the hood and secures some steel mesh to cover it then places the hood on top of the steel mesh and he’s never had issues.

I have till December to come up with solutions so it’s not like this is urgent. But getting an adult enclosure or upgrading the enclosure now is simply not an option for me. I don’t have the space for it yet (need to replace some furniture to make it work in the future) and I’ve had a lot of recent expenses I’m still recovering from. It’s just not something I can afford at the moment. Worst come to worst if you guys don’t think this DIY idea is safe then I’ll just heat the room she’s in until she’s big enough for her final home.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ian14 said:


> Mats don't raise the ambient air temperature.


Certainly not to the levels a CHE or lamp would, but I'm now coming round to thinking that they can impact the ambient temps to a degree or so. I placed a min/max thermometer (digital) 8" above the substrate (and hide) that was over a 20w heat mat. The room temperature fell from 23.4c to 22.3c over night, just a small difference, but then outside remained in double digits, reaching 11.5c just after 5am. The temperature in the vivarium had a minimum air temperature of 25.3c Ok I know were talking single degrees here, but were heatmats warm a substrate, or the snake that is sitting on the mat to its ideal temperature, the substrate or snake will warm the air, but to a level that is not significantly practical to be considered as a means to warm the air. Now come winter time, if the same process follows, our lounge often drops to 18c, so that would suggest the air in the viv would be no more than 19 or 20c. Not ideal for any tropical species of snake.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Stalwartpigeon said:


> I’m aware that it will be an issue. That’s why I came here in advance of when it will become an issue haha. I also posted on a group on facebook. A guy said that he has had success with overhead heat in RUBs with a DHP bulb, as they don’t heat up as much as CHE emitters but still provide more than enough heat to properly heat the enclosure.


But in order to produce the IR the filament glows which for some species is noticeable, so they don't get a true day night photo-period. You can't turn them off at night as that leave the snake with no heating during those hours


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## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

Malc said:


> But in order to produce the IR the filament glows which for some species is noticeable, so they don't get a true day night photo-period. You can't turn them off at night as that leave the snake with no heating during those hours


The guy said that with his BRBs and a hot side of around 28-29 which is a lot lower than for most snakes the filaments rarely get hot enough to produce a glow.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalwartpigeon said:


> I’m aware that it will be an issue. That’s why I came here in advance of when it will become an issue haha. I also posted on a group on facebook. A guy said that he has had success with overhead heat in RUBs with a DHP bulb, as they don’t heat up as much as CHE emitters but still provide more than enough heat to properly heat the enclosure. He gave me his instructions as to how he’s DIYed his own ones so far and he’s never had issues with the plastic burning/melting or anything. He basically cuts out a hole the size of the hood and secures some steel mesh to cover it then places the hood on top of the steel mesh and he’s never had issues.
> 
> I have till December to come up with solutions so it’s not like this is urgent. But getting an adult enclosure or upgrading the enclosure now is simply not an option for me. I don’t have the space for it yet (need to replace some furniture to make it work in the future) and I’ve had a lot of recent expenses I’m still recovering from. It’s just not something I can afford at the moment. Worst come to worst if you guys don’t think this DIY idea is safe then I’ll just heat the room she’s in until she’s big enough for her final home.


In which case, start off getting some polystyrene. If you have a fish shop near by (monger or aquatics) they will always have poly boxes that they usually give away, and can be cut to size). 
Use these to insulate sides, and base.
The overhead method yiuve described could work. Personally I would try it out with an empty and identical tub to the one the boa is in first.
If it works then great!


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## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> In which case, start off getting some polystyrene. If you have a fish shop near by (monger or aquatics) they will always have poly boxes that they usually give away, and can be cut to size).
> Use these to insulate sides, and base.
> The overhead method yiuve described could work. Personally I would try it out with an empty and identical tub to the one the boa is in first.
> If it works then great!


I don’t have an identical box but I do have one made of a similar plastic. I’ll try it out and see if anything melts or looks unsafe for her! Good idea hadn’t though of that. Thanks for the help Ian  The way the enclosure is set up she’ll even have a small basking area on a branch if she wants more heat so she can have access to different levels of heat as opposed to just the heat mat which is better for her anyway. I’ll still use them together though I think on different stats. What kind of stat should I buy for this kind of bulb? A pulse stat? Or a dimmer stat? Or just an on/off one?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

If its a bulb that gives off visible light then you need a dimmer stat. 
Ceramics - dimmer or Pulse
Lamps - dimmer
Mats - on/off or Pulse (unless it has a minimum load in which case stick with on/off mat stats)


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## Stalwartpigeon (6 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> If its a bulb that gives off visible light then you need a dimmer stat.
> Ceramics - dimmer or Pulse
> Lamps - dimmer
> Mats - on/off or Pulse (unless it has a minimum load in which case stick with on/off mat stats)


Alright thanks! It shouldn’t have that much/ if any visible light but I’ll go with a dimmer just in case


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalwartpigeon said:


> Alright thanks! It shouldn’t have that much/ if any visible light but I’ll go with a dimmer just in case


Any heat source that emits light needs a dimmer, otherwise the c9nstant on/off for the bulb will blow it very quickly


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