# adders



## KDale (Jan 26, 2014)

would i need a DWA license for an adder


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

KDale said:


> would i need a DWA license for an adder


Yes, they are in the genus vipera. All vipera are covered by that act.


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## KDale (Jan 26, 2014)

Razorscale said:


> Yes, they are in the genus vipera. All vipera are covered by that act.


so i cant keep one if i caught it in my garden?
and dose this apply to grass snakes


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

KDale said:


> so i cant keep one if i caught it in my garden?
> and dose this apply to grass snakes


You can't keep it in captivity without a DWA licence, but most people would say captivity is a vivarium or a RUB or some sort of cage. I doubt whether having them in your garden would be regarded as keeping them in captivity.

Grass snakes are not DWA, and there's nothing in wildlife law which prevents you from keeping them. But I would say you should leave them in your garden where you can still see them from time to time, watch their natural behaviour and perhaps help the conservation of the species by adding extra features to help them along, such as places to hibernate or lay eggs (in the case of grass snakes).

If you have any photos, stick them up - it would be interesting to see them.


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

KDale said:


> so i cant keep one if i caught it in my garden?
> and dose this apply to grass snakes


Why would you want to keep one you found in your garden???? first of all you are breaking the law twice(as far as I know, owning a DWA without a license and second taking a struggling species from the wild for your own personal collection).

Wild adders won't do well in captivity, if you see one in your garden leave it alone, they are having hard enough time due to habitat loss.

Grass snakes are bred in captivity, so look for a breeder and purchase one off them, at least that way you can guarantee it is a feeder on defrost rodents and parasite free. Just because they are naturally occurring in your country doesn't make it right to take them from the wild because they are "free".


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Adders are protected under the Wildlife & Countryside act and are clearly a DWA listed species.

Whilst you would not be breaking the law in taking one from your garden it would almost certainly die.

Berus are difficult to keep and wild ones will almost never feed and will suffer from serious stress.

Leave it in the wild and get a corn snake


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## bonesy (Mar 8, 2014)

Wild animals should be left in the wild!! as stated above there are plenty of breeders where you could get a captive snake who is accustomed to being kept in a captive environment and on a captive diet.


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## KDale (Jan 26, 2014)

i dont have any in my garden i was using it as an example in fact I've never seen a wild snake in the uk i was just intrested


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

dont pick it up if u have no expirience with vipers all it takes is to put ur thumb in the wrong place and u get stabbed . for years since i was 16 and moved to country bumkin land i used to pick them up by the tail off the roads as u see loads run over down here and just sling them in the nearest field never ever had one start lashing out and striking always been like a lazy fat slug (even found one in the sea surfing and put it in a crisp packet and then put it back up the cliffs.... but since coming on here there def not summint il play with again without a hook :lol2: i was stupid enough not to know the laws and took a road injury one too the vets then indoors (off the advice from the vet DOH! didnt even realised u needed a licence or dwa existed ) as apparently the rspca just destroy them as they arent skilled enough to recoup anything but a cat or dog. that was put in the garage in a 6 ft tank which was just rammed with natural substrate and heather and id just throw a live feild mouse in there and then they vanished i can only put this down to it got left well alone as i didnt want mother finding out what i had:whistling2::whistling2: anyways it got nicknamed scar due to the stitches it had left a scar in its scales and my sister loved lion king and ended up released in far end of the garden where id been trapping mice and i saw it for years then others started to turn up prob due to the rodents from the seed from the birds.......anyways i digress the best thing u can do is find a farm with some collapsed barns and ask the farmer if u can have the corrigated roofing put it down and leave a large area just to grow wild and then just sling a load of seed out to attract the rodents this way u get to enjoy them but ur not keeping them captive..... i would not advise this if u have young children around the area if it was id relocate it because unfortunatley theres always a willing neighbour with a spade ready to protect there children from then deadly killer snake not as wat usually happens the daft kid was poking it with a stick. if ur not comfortable removing it post in here im sure theres someone local and skilled enough to tub it and put it somewhere better. 

theres prob loads if missed im not a dwa keeper but ive picked up loads of adders and sorry if the grammar is :censor: typing off a pad is fun lol.

still dying to find an albino seen a black one wild but im assuming the gul's etc bump off the albino's through natural selection........ personally first thing id do if i did find an albino is ring one of the zoo's as something like that is rare as rocking horse :censor:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

erm one for the dwa keepers does berus get big enough to take out baby bunnies as they seem to coincide with coming out of burmation with all the orible poop eating pests lol or is this coincidence


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

send me one of them adders!: victory:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

HABU said:


> send me one of them adders!: victory:


only if u send me a cribo or coachwhip in return lol


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

mikeyb said:


> only if u send me a cribo or coachwhip in return lol


Northern Copperhead - Ohio Birds and Biodiversity

just copperheads here...


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> erm one for the dwa keepers does berus get big enough to take out baby bunnies as they seem to coincide with coming out of burmation with all the orible poop eating pests lol or is this coincidence


No, they can't eat rabbits. Even a baby would be a bit too large. They're natural diet is the common lizard.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Razorscale said:


> Why would you want to keep one you found in your garden???? first of all you are breaking the law twice(as far as I know, owning a DWA without a license and second taking a struggling species from the wild for your own personal collection).
> 
> Wild adders won't do well in captivity, if you see one in your garden leave it alone, they are having hard enough time due to habitat loss.
> 
> Grass snakes are bred in captivity, so look for a breeder and purchase one off them, at least that way you can guarantee it is a feeder on defrost rodents and parasite free. Just because they are naturally occurring in your country doesn't make it right to take them from the wild because they are "free".


It's not illegal to take adders from the wild.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

KDale said:


> so i cant keep one if i caught it in my garden?
> and dose this apply to grass snakes


Stick to rabbits. 

It doesn't take much effort to find out the answer to your question. If you can't be bothered to find the answer yourself, then avoid exotics!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> erm one for the dwa keepers does berus get big enough to take out baby bunnies as they seem to coincide with coming out of burmation with all the orible poop eating pests lol or is this coincidence


Really?????


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## KDale (Jan 26, 2014)

ian14 said:


> Stick to rabbits.
> 
> It doesn't take much effort to find out the answer to your question. If you can't be bothered to find the answer yourself, then avoid exotics!


i more or less knew the answer anyway i was just confirming what i'd guessed and what do you mean by stick to rabbits
also adders arent dangerously venomous right?


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## projectalf (Mar 28, 2014)

KDale said:


> i more or less knew the answer anyway i was just confirming what i'd guessed and what do you mean by stick to rabbits
> also adders arent dangerously venomous right?


Adders do have quite a potent venom but the yield per bite is usually low there for people believe they are not really to venomous


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

KDale said:


> i more or less knew the answer anyway i was just confirming what i'd guessed and what do you mean by stick to rabbits
> also adders arent dangerously venomous right?


Adders have killed people. I'd call that pretty dangerous.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

projectalf said:


> Adders do have quite a potent venom but the yield per bite is usually low there for people believe they are not really to venomous


Generally most people are clueless when it comes to adders and our other native herpetofauna and others with no knowledge are experts because they saw it on a forum.

The number of times I have had people in my area talk about grass snakes being common, when there are completely absent is shocking. 

Show these muppets a picture of a slow worm and they say its a grass snake. DOH!

Show others a piccies of an grass snake and they say adder.

Unfortunately we live in a society where nobody going into the countryside and kids are driven to school when the lazy little buggers could walk. 

Oops I am of on a rant...

Of course we could start moaning about some individuals posting on forums without and capital letters or punctuation, but for another time


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## amber83 (Jul 29, 2013)

This link states that adders are protected by law against harm from humans, but doesn't say they cannot be taken from the wild. But, I'm not sure if being taken from the wild into captivity could be perceived as harm by us in the eyes of the law.
Even so, if you do see one, I would just admire it from afar and leave it to its own devices. We have a fair bit of countryside here and in the warmer months when it's quiet, if you sit quietly I've seen a fair few in the wild. They're lovely to look at. 
Obviously they are venomous, but it's unlikely a healthy fit person would die from being bitten by one. If you ever are nuts enough to try to pick one up and get bitten, go to a hospital anyway. 
But I really would just leave them alone and just look, they're under enough threat already, even people out walking their dog or kids messing about cause them harm, I've seen it happen - kids terrorising them, adults killing them because they fear them. They won't usually bite unless provoked, because they use their venom for their prey, they'd rather hide from you.


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## amber83 (Jul 29, 2013)

Forgot to post the link DOH! Adder


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## Iulia (Mar 2, 2011)

amber83 said:


> This link states that adders are protected by law against harm from humans, but doesn't say they cannot be taken from the wild. But, I'm not sure if being taken from the wild into captivity could be perceived as harm by us in the eyes of the law.
> Even so, if you do see one, I would just admire it from afar and leave it to its own devices. We have a fair bit of countryside here and in the warmer months when it's quiet, if you sit quietly I've seen a fair few in the wild. They're lovely to look at.
> Obviously they are venomous, but it's unlikely a healthy fit person would die from being bitten by one. If you ever are nuts enough to try to pick one up and get bitten, go to a hospital anyway.
> But I really would just leave them alone and just look, they're under enough threat already, even people out walking their dog or kids messing about cause them harm, I've seen it happen - kids terrorising them, adults killing them because they fear them. They won't usually bite unless provoked, because they use their venom for their prey, they'd rather hide from you.



Yeah this. They are gorgeous animals and I'd love one ..... but really they are so under threat from habitat loss and human encroachment please leave them alone. You can get so many captive bred animals ... including vipers and all sorts of DWA.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ian14 said:


> Really?????


yh a baby bunny isnt that much different in size to a rat so i was curious to know if they time there burmation exit with the same time as all the baby bunnies start. most snakes are known to raid nests (i have no idea what the term for a rabbits nest is other than warren lol) as baby rodents are easy targets. i used to do alot of ferreting and once my polecat came out with a freshly dispatched adder so thats made me question if they raid baby rabbits this said there all over the cliffs in cornwall and one of the hotspots i found is right next too a rspb site and there huge adders so would they raid them nests a bit like gul island in oz


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## KDale (Jan 26, 2014)

mikeyb said:


> there all over the cliffs in cornwall


on the coast?


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

ian14 said:


> Stick to rabbits.
> 
> It doesn't take much effort to find out the answer to your question. If you can't be bothered to find the answer yourself, then avoid exotics!


Surely that was what the OP was doing by coming on this forum, trying to find the answer for himself, by asking other forum members?!




KDale said:


> on the coast?


Coasts are really good places to find Adders, above high water/splash zone.



mikeyb said:


> yh a baby bunny isnt that much different in size to a rat so i was curious to know if they time there burmation exit with the same time as all the baby bunnies start. most snakes are known to raid nests (i have no idea what the term for a rabbits nest is other than warren lol) as baby rodents are easy targets. i used to do alot of ferreting and once my polecat came out with a freshly dispatched adder so thats made me question if they raid baby rabbits this said there all over the cliffs in cornwall and one of the hotspots i found is right next too a rspb site and there huge adders so would they raid them nests a bit like gul island in oz


I suppose if a fully grown adder came across a rabbit kit up to say 5 days old in its burrow, then it could eat it, but we tend to think of adders as sit and wait predators rather than something which would forage deep into a rabbit's burrow for food. Their main prey are bank voles and mice, though as babies I think comon lizards are an important part of their diet.

The baby rabbits we see hopping around at this time of year would be too big for adders to eat, I imagine.


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## amber83 (Jul 29, 2013)

Matt, exactly! Otherwise what's the point in having a forum in the first place.


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## DW2013 (Jul 19, 2013)

I suppose if a fully grown adder came across a rabbit kit up to say 5 days old in its burrow, then it could eat it, but we tend to think of adders as sit and wait predators *rather than something which would forage deep into a rabbit's burrow for food*. Their main prey are bank voles and mice, though as babies I think comon lizards are an important part of their diet.

Actually, a radio tracking study carried out in the Wyre forest found a male adder living in rodent burrows (presumably hunting) for about a week. Shows what we know!

That was just an FYI, otherwise, what Matt said.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

DW2013 said:


> I suppose if a fully grown adder came across a rabbit kit up to say 5 days old in its burrow, then it could eat it, but we tend to think of adders as sit and wait predators *rather than something which would forage deep into a rabbit's burrow for food*. Their main prey are bank voles and mice, though as babies I think comon lizards are an important part of their diet.
> 
> Actually, a radio tracking study carried out in the Wyre forest found a male adder living in rodent burrows (presumably hunting) for about a week. Shows what we know!
> 
> That was just an FYI, otherwise, what Matt said.


It's often said that UK snakes such as the adder will hibernate in disused rabbit burrows, which seems sensible I suppose, but I wonder if the parts of a warren where the rabbits have their babies is too deep for an active adder to find? I would have thought that a female rabbit would be able to defend her kits against an adder, but I gather from a documentary last year that the mum only visits the babies for a short period of time each day, and for the rest of the time they are alone...

I guess a lot of snakes will use rodent burrows (rabbits aren't rodents btw) for both hiding and finding food.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Show these muppets a picture of a slow worm and they say its a grass snake. DOH!
> 
> Unfortunately we live in a society where nobody going into the countryside and kids are driven to school when the lazy little buggers could walk.


I share your concern about kids today and their lack of knowledge of, and interest in, our wildlife, and I spent many years attending countryside-themed events with my native herp stall to do my small bit in counteracting this.

During this time I met many thousands of people who had never seen a native snake, didn't know we had snakes and lizards in the wild in Wales, and didn't know that slow-worms were lizards not snakes. It's not that they're stupid or anything, it's just that they weren't tought it at school, didn't know anyone who knew about these things while they were growing up, or haven't picked it up from the media.

One thing I did notice, especially in the S Wales valleys, is that most people immediately referred to a slow-worm by the name 'grass snake' - presumably because it looks a bit like a snake and lives in long grass (albeit under logs, stones, tins etc therein). In a sense it's not mis-identification, its just that a common name has been co-opted to a different species.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

yh female rabbits are not good mothers in the same way a rat or a gopher say would be so a 5 year old kit would be no match for a large adder as well as that ive noticed that the warrens dont tend to be very close to a hotspot of adders and yh the cliffs are awesome herping places because i believe there undisturbed both farmers and builders want nothing to do with it and most of its protected. Also most of the adder bites be that animals mainly dogs or people (yep silly tourists wearing flip flops in the heather :bash tend to be up on the cliffs rarely hear of a bite inland. in cornwall up country whole different story i did hear the isle of wight has a really healthy adder population again up on the cliffs or by coastal paths


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

its easy to justify the coastal areas 1. minimal disturbance but a few hikers 2. the longest hours of sunlight theres nothing blocking the heat until the sun goes down and 3. its all rocks i.e granite that really holds the heat sling a piece in the over and see how hot it stays ul be shocked


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## DW2013 (Jul 19, 2013)

Following on from Matt's Slow-Worm point, grass snakes used to be called "Barred snakes" in some parts of the country.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

DW2013 said:


> Following on from Matt's Slow-Worm point, grass snakes used to be called "Barred snakes" in some parts of the country.


My old folks used to call slow-worms 'blindworms', and I have also read that the term 'deaf adder' has been used for them!?


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## william1997 (Mar 24, 2014)

Matt Harris said:


> I share your concern about kids today and their lack of knowledge of, and interest in, our wildlife, and I spent many years attending countryside-themed events with my native herp stall to do my small bit in counteracting this.
> 
> During this time I met many thousands of people who had never seen a native snake, didn't know we had snakes and lizards in the wild in Wales, and didn't know that slow-worms were lizards not snakes. It's not that they're stupid or anything, it's just that they weren't tought it at school, didn't know anyone who knew about these things while they were growing up, or haven't picked it up from the media.
> 
> One thing I did notice, especially in the S Wales valleys, is that most people immediately referred to a slow-worm by the name 'grass snake' - presumably because it looks a bit like a snake and lives in long grass (albeit under logs, stones, tins etc therein). In a sense it's not mis-identification, its just that a common name has been co-opted to a different species.


When i was 3 or 4 my dad brought in a marsh frog and put it in the bath from there on i had my eyes glued to the floor outside scanning for wildlife, i always wanted to find the biggest frogs and toads possible. Until i was 14 when i realised why look for the biggest bufo bufo when i can just buy a 5 inche bufo asper:2thumb:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Matt Harris said:


> It's often said that UK snakes such as the adder will hibernate in disused rabbit burrows, which seems sensible I suppose, but I wonder if the parts of a warren where the rabbits have their babies is too deep for an active adder to find? I would have thought that a female rabbit would be able to defend her kits against an adder, but I gather from a documentary last year that the mum only visits the babies for a short period of time each day, and for the rest of the time they are alone...
> 
> I guess a lot of snakes will use rodent burrows (rabbits aren't rodents btw) for both hiding and finding food.


I think one of the problems in this idea is that a large open burrow would by its very nature be open enough to allow rats to enter.

Many years ago I worked on a translocation project in southern Scotland on a Motorway upgrade (years before that poor program on TV) the evidence showed that adders are preyed on by rats in Winter.

Artificial hibernacula need to allow adders to enter but not rats.... anyway enough of my ranting


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> I think one of the problems in this idea is that a large open burrow would by its very nature be open enough to allow rats to enter.
> 
> Many years ago I worked on a translocation project in southern Scotland on a Motorway upgrade (years before that poor program on TV) the evidence showed that adders are preyed on by rats in Winter.
> 
> Artificial hibernacula need to allow adders to enter but not rats.... anyway enough of my ranting


I look at a lot pf artificial hibernacula and think how attractive they would be to rats - perhaps the same goes for grass snake egg-laying mounds as well. I assume that in a more natural setting, hibernating herps find places away from rat predation, otherwise they'd have disappeared a long time ago, but I guess the same equilibrium is not in place in man-made settings, no matter how well intentioned.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

TBH i found the best thing adders and even the slow worms and lizards love is corregated roofing and down here there always a local barn thats falling to bits and usually the farmer will let u have the rusty roofing for nothing. i just chucked this at the end of the field and id say 1 in 5 bits u flip has a snake under it. and i intentionally let the bird feed go everywhere to attract the rodents only time ive seen this go bad was i saw an adder on the lawn right in front of the shed. Clearly a mother rat outside hissing its nuts off at the adder protecting its babies. i hate rats full stop so erm those furry critter loves might wanna stop reading here.................... i removed the adder as it was no where near big enough to take on the mother and il say borrowed my sisters ferrets and all of a sudden this large pile of mother and juvenile rats started to mount up.. for some reason ferrets will kill rats no problem but they dont eat them so i just picked them up with a shovel and threw them all still warm over where the corregate is. Now ive nevery observed an adder eating summint already dead but all the dead ones disappeared in no time so either the corvids had them or maybe an adder will take summint still warm and dead ??


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