# Help Please



## It's corny but.. (Feb 7, 2007)

Hi guys

I have an Everglades x, unsure what with, possible Texan Rat, I think you've all seen him.

I've been asked if I'd like a full Everglades from someone, and this would be my first time breeding snakes. 

I want to know, if hers is a full Everglades and mine half, what babies would likely come out of it, and would it be safe to breed them?

Thanks

Caroline


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It's corny but.. said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have an Everglades x, unsure what with, possible Texan Rat, I think you've all seen him.
> 
> ...



Hi Caroline,

If your snake is Everglades x Texas and you cross it with an Everglades, the hatchlings will be 75% everglades and 25% Texas. It should be _safe_ to do as Texas and Everglades rat snakes are both the same species ( but different subspecies ).

The hatchlings would be a mixed bag, as it will depend on which genes they get from which parent. With Texas rats, the saddles and markings are retained throughout life but with Everglades the saddles fade and possibly vanish altogether and 4 stripes develop that run the length of the snake.

As adults, I would expect a 75%-25% cross to have a LOT of orange and prominent stripes but I would not expect the saddles to vanish completely as the snake matures. But basically you would get a mixed bag with some looking more like a texas rat and some looking more like an everglades as they mature but none of them would be 100% like one or the other.


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

The tricky part will be when they hatch because the obsoletus hatchlings all tend to look the same, as they grow, will be when any pattern or colour change will become apparant. Fun eh? lol :lol2:


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Indeed... they all start life looking like grey rats ... Even yellow and everglades rats start out like this 

Colours start to appear at what ... about 6 months Lou ???


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

yeah thats when you seem to really notice a change isn't it?

I dont have the pics in image shack but here's a couple links to them.

First, a hatchling, this is pure Everglades. The Ratsnake Foundation - Photo Gallery

Next at 6 months.
The Ratsnake Foundation - Photo Gallery


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## It's corny but.. (Feb 7, 2007)

Wow those pictures are not anything like my boy! Pic:



















He is very bright orange with yellow belly that goes orange further down.
He has visible stripes and some faded saddles.
His tongue is black and red!

I have had some say that a true Everglades can retain the saddles, but that the mixed colour tongue is the true indicator of a cross?

Can true Everglades vary a lot in colour?

What market would you say there is for rat snakes?


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It's corny but.. said:


> I have had some say that a true Everglades can retain the saddles, but that the mixed colour tongue is the true indicator of a cross?


Personally, I dont think there is such a thing as a 'True' everglades. Everglades breeders aim for orange body, red tongue, darker orange ( not black ) stripes and no saddles. I agree with Burbrink when he classifies both Yellow rat snakes and Everglades rat snakes as different morphs of the same animal, the Eastern rat snake.



> Can true Everglades vary a lot in colour?


yes... Anything from dark yellow to orange. You can also get Orange snakes, with yellow/orange bellies and black tongues.



> What market would you say there is for rat snakes?


Debateable  They go quite well at shows but they have a very bad ( and thoroughly undeserved ) reputation for aggression which does not do them any favours but as anyone who keeps them knows, is totally untrue.


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## It's corny but.. (Feb 7, 2007)

Thank you for your very helpful posts. I really appreciate it. I will mull over the prospect of breeding for a lot longer I think. 
They are truly beautiful snakes, vibrant in colour and personality!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It's corny but.. said:


> I have had some say that a true Everglades can retain the saddles, but that the mixed colour tongue is the true indicator of a cross?


Personally, I dont think there is such a thing as a 'True' everglades. Everglades breeders aim for orange body, red tongue, darker orange ( not black ) stripes and no saddles. I agree with Burbrink when he classifies both Yellow rat snakes and Everglades rat snakes as different moprhs of the same animal, the Eastern rat snake.

Not all yellow or everglades rat snakes saddles disappear completely, that is just what is desired by breeders.

You can get some like these that I have that are born without saddles and obviously will never develop any...












> Can true Everglades vary a lot in colour?


yes... Anything from dark yellow to orange. You can also get Orange snakes, with yellow/orange bellies and black tongues.



> What market would you say there is for rat snakes?


Debateable  They go quite well at shows but they have a very bad ( and thoroughly undeserved ) reputation for aggression which does not do them any favours but as anyone who keeps them knows, is totally untrue.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

dunno what happened there post wise... LOL


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

What's the herp scene like in Ireland? Do you think there is a market over there and do you have an idea of where you can sell your hatchlings, i.e a good herp shop??

Here's the same snake now 2 yrs old
The Ratsnake Foundation - Photo Gallery

When I say 'true' Everglades by this I mean ones that tick all the right boxes in terms of colour, tounge etc. Or shall we just say locale variant :lol2:


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## It's corny but.. (Feb 7, 2007)

Its steadily increasing, although rather alarmingly legislation (king cobra recently sold pregnant on the local free ads), guidance (everyone knows best) and acceptance are not. You all know about St Patrick ridding Ireland of snakes?
I regularly use rep shops that are excellent, and whilst the hobby is certainly more expensive here, it's not stopping newcomers. (EVERYTHINGS more expensive here)
I would certainly have takers, there are a limited number of shops with good stock, and many enthusiasts (including me) are wary of importing snakes themselves. This makes for a very limited selection in the main, although the odd beauty is exported from a few of the usual suspects on here, to NI, who then ship to the south.
There are certainly more youngsters taking up the hobby, and I think that has a lot to do with the rise in apartment living (no good for a dog) and the internet. When all your questions can be answered within minutes, there's little or no argument for the parents eh?
The down side of the industry here (and anyone pick me up on this, it is after all my opinion) is that there are a lot of shops selling anything they can to anyone without full guidance, and with apparent disregard for anyones safety (many many heroin addicts in Dublin have lots of snakes and no way of looking after them properly-just this week i visited a rep shop and one was there laughing about his corns eggs that nearly all died cos he kept picking them up and messing with them)
There is also widespread fear of the hobby here, mainly ignorance I guess.


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Don't know what to say to that really other than OMG!!!

Well whatever you decide, all the best :smile:


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