# Crotalus mitchelli



## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

_Crotalus mitchelli the arizona speckled rattlesnake is very difficult to get info on them, so far i have gathered:_
_Live in rocky desert areas of southwestern america_
_Feed on bats but if captive can feed on chicks and mice_
_Have blue eyes and are very variable in colour_
_Are venomous twice as bad as Eastern Diamondbacks_
_Are small compared to Eastern Diamondbacks_

BUT......... How can i get one in the UK??????????:bash:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

there are places that could more than likely get you one, its just a case of looking around.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

I know a friend of friend that lives in arizona but not sure of shipping laws and costs if he did get one.

I know there are people that breed rattlesnakes in the uk but none specifically the speckled


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

xxsassyminxxx said:


> I know a friend of friend that lives in arizona but not sure of shipping laws and costs if he did get one.
> 
> I know there are people that breed rattlesnakes in the uk but none specifically the speckled


Got your liesence sorted...?.... id think about that before anything....also the Hot room


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

I wont buy one without a licence obviously.:crazy:
I will go on a course for experience in handling venomous, this will help me while applying for a licence.
My HOT room will be my snake room which can already be locked and has an extention to put a cordless phone in.
I also have to find a suitable viv which i am yet to make a decision on.
I will also see one of the species i am looking for and handle it BEFORE i buy one
As you can see i am researching at the moment as much as possible Before i buy. I do so with every single snake i keep.


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

are you gonna do any hot handling training before you get one?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

400runner said:


> are you gonna do any hot handling training before you get one?


 


> I will go on a course for experience in handling venomous


:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

read post above yours:iamwithstupid:


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

Si u post so quick!!!!


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

sorry! i'm a bit hungover, i did read to check you hadn't said it but didn't see it! good luck with it all


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

:lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

good thing he dont keep hots with hangovers like that :blowup:

:roll2:


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Well sassyminx, again you should have a word with my o/h, he's very good friends with Robbie from Glades Herp in the USA. So if they're not available in the UK or Europe then that's another possible avenue .


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

I am definately going to have a chat with ur other half but as u said not this weekend he is out (did he come back with more stock?)
i cant next saturday as i have a wedding in wales to attend.
Is it possible to pop up in an evening next week or sunday day?


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

I have already got directions it will take 50mins from my address to get to your shop and i work weekdays till 5pm


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Sundays are better. He's not back yet, later tonight prob around midnight, we have just had some quite nice stuff in from a friend this week, it's the baby stuff we're REALLY short of!


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

xxsassyminxxx said:


> good thing he dont keep hots with hangovers like that :blowup:
> 
> :roll2:


i am gonna be soon. but i'd never handle under the influence of alcohol. one of the golden rules of venomous keeping!


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

lol glad u know!
so wat u been up 2 2 learn? we can share notes
note 1: hangovers + hots = :blowup:


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
Can I please ask, What is the Latin name for the species you are looking for? I think the only Speckled to enter Arizona is the South-west Speckled Rattlesnake,(Crotalus mitchellii pyrrhus), and you normally find the eye colour matches the ground colour of the snake. The snake I have is salmon pink, and so is it`s eyes. As you know they come in a variety of colours, I have been after a blueish female for my male for some time, they are hard to come by.
Good luck in your search.
All the best,
Brian.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

''The Arizona Speckled Rattlesnake, _Crotalus mitchelli_, "has a very unique distinction ... of being the only blue-eyed snake in the entire Northern Hemisphere." Its coloration "ranges all the way from a snow white, all the way to a grey, all the way to royal blue in some areas, and in the red rock areas it will actually take on a red tint." Their head is small, and as a bat eater they are unique. They are "twice as venomous as a Western Diamondback" although "full grown at three feet" in length. They are most prevalent in mountains in the Gila Bend to Yuma area. They are an uncommon species. ''
Quoted from the following page::::
The Rattlesnakes of Arizona by James Q. Jacobs

: victory:


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
The Speckled Rattlesnakes come in five sub-species:
Crotalus mitchelli mitchelli
Crotalus mitchelli angelensis
Crotalus mitchelli muertensis
Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus
Crotalus mitchelli stephensi
The only change I have heard of, is that stephensi has been upgraded to it`s own species, so now it is Crotalus stephensi.
This Arizona Speckled must be one of these sub-species, it cannot be just Crotalus mitchelli.
All the best,
Brian.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Okay, don't know too much about the husbandry of rattlers myself... I've dealt with _Crotalus atrox_ and _Crotalus cerastes_ at work but haven't really looked at the group.

But... I have a copy of Ludwig Trutnau's "Venomous Snakes in the Terrarium" handy so I'll try to summarise the valid points regarding _C. mitchelli_ husbandry. (BTW Mr. Trutnau says the _C. m. pyrrhus_ is the most commonly imported - this is an old-ish book though so not necessarily up to date).

Needs a bright terrarium with 10-12 hours of light.
Daytime temperatures of 25-32 degrees celsius, falling to about 18-22 at night. (Optimal daytime temp is 30-31 to aid digestion).
He also reckons that a "mild bottom heater" is needed during the day to prevent respiratory infections.
The author notes that some individuals are easy and some can starve to death by refusing to feed. Stress is a very important factor in this species.
Apparantly brumation of between 3-5 months at 8-12 celsius is required.
This species prefers desert-like terrain, with lots of rocks and low plant-growth. It can be found on sunny slopes and in gorges but rarely on sandy substrate.
_C. mitchelli_ can be rather nocturnal thanks to the high daytime temperatures in its range and can be active after rainfall.

Okay, so that was basically just regurgitated information and no substitute for good first hand experience. I'm sure if you find some one who has kept this species you'll get a more first-hand response. But as I always say, there's no substitute for research. Hope that helps, even if only a little.


For anyone into venomous snakes, or any snakes for that matter, I really recommend this book. It's packed full of information and is just such a good read. Perhaps my favourite reptile book ever, and a bible for DWA keepers (haven't got my hands on the new B.W. Smith book yet, though).


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Thrasops,
I keep two species of Speckled Rattlesnake, the South-west Rattlesnake, Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus, and the Panamint Rattlesnake, Crotalus mitchelli stephensi, now upgraded to Crotalus stephensi by some taxonomists.
They are easy to look after with the advise in your thread. As for feeding, the Panamint takes one or two adult defrost mice every 10 to 14 days, the South-west feeds only on fuzzy mice, if you try him on adults, he will regurge them. This seems a common thing with people that keep pyrrhus. By the way, every time I feed them, I put their rock heaters on at night for about 7 nights after.
All the best,
Brian.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Cool! Thanks for the info.

I didn't see anything about venom in the book - just out of curiosity, what is this species like venom-wise? Supposedly these snakes can be a little on the defensive side...?

Regards
Francis


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Francis,
The Speckled Rattlesnakes seem to have a typical Rattlesnake venom, so a bite would seem to have a danger relative to the snakes size.
Having said that, the venom has not been studied as well as the more medically important Rattlesnakes, so you never know. The closely related Tiger Rattlesnake, Crotalus tigris, has a very potent venom that also contains neurotoxins similar to "mojavetoxin".
As for temprement, I don`t find them bad at all, in fact the Panamint is very laid back, while the South-west can be a bit nippy, he is not hard to handle at all.
All the best,
Brian.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

*LOVE information!!!*

Thanks Brian i will look up each of the sub species and gather more info on each: victory:

Thanks also for your first hand experience feeding wise i will note this down and bare it in mind not to feed large meals but only small meals every 10-12 days.

Francis: Thanks also for your information Ludwig Trutnau's "Venomous Snakes in the Terrarium" is a book i will now get and read it thouroughly.
What you have said is exactly how i've heard their evironment is like:no1:
The venom is said by comparison to be ''twice as bad as the western diamondback rattlesnake'' although i'll have to find what the breakdown of the venom enzyme and toxin wise.

This information is much appreciated by myself i am very grateful for this stepping stone in the research:notworthy:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

that book is definately worth getting, not the cheapest book but well worth the money.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

The question about the venom:
For *Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus *which i believe is one of the most commonly kept and also from the areas i have been researching:
Venom:*LD50: *Type a - *Venom Type: Hemotoxic**Antivenom: Crofab / Wyeth polyvalent*
Does this help?


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
I do not understand the LD50; Type a.
The LD50 is a test to determine how toxic various venoms and toxins are. A venom would be tested on 18 to 21 gram white mice, and the ammount that will kill 50% of the animals will be the LD50 for that venom.
Obviously, the lower the figure, the more toxic the venom, so, the Inland Taipan, ( Oxyuranus microlepidotus ) has an LD50 of 0.025 mg/kg in 18 to 21 gram mice, making it the most potent snake venom yet tested.
As for anti-venom , only Cro-fab is available now, Wyeth stopped making it, not enough money in it.
All the best,
Brian.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

The intraperitoneal LD50 is 2.844 mg/kg, putting it inbetween *Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus (2.7 mg/kg)* and Tropidolaemus wagleri (3.58 mg/kg). However, this is significantly less than Crotalus durissus terrificus (0.216 mg/kg), Crotalus scutulatus scutulatus (0.159 mg/kg) or Crotalus durissus durissus (0.667 mg/kg)

There are quite a few antivenom manufacturers out there in america that will supply however in the uk not sure i will phone the west midlands safari park and ask what they stock as they have a few rattlesnakes.


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## ratking (Mar 4, 2008)

check out snowy at jurrasic arc he nows his hots(i now nothing) but not to far from u in brownhills hes got quite a few rattlers and might be able to advise u on where to look if not get u 1 sorry carnt be any more help


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

LD50 is good if you want to know how deadly an animals venom is to a mouse, crofab is the polyvalent anti venom used for all north american rattlers and pit vipers, wyeth is the AV they used to use, but they are moving over to crofab now, because it has less unpleasent side effects than wyeth.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i was looking through the ads here and although very random, these pics looked cool to me. just a lot of rattler species out there.











it's a banded rock...


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow i've just looked out of curiosity how long it will take to drive from kentucky to arizona 1 day 2 hrs!!! America is huuuuge!!!!
No wonder you have so much more wildlife!!!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

xxsassyminxxx said:


> Wow i've just looked out of curiosity how long it will take to drive from kentucky to arizona 1 day 2 hrs!!! America is huuuuge!!!!
> No wonder you have so much more wildlife!!!


 i've driven coast to coast a few times.. boy out west it seems to go on forever... prime herping spots everywhere you look... just pull over. no wonder there are so many rattlesnake species... you could collect them for the rest of your life... not to mention the south american rattlers.... it's a hobby unto itself. i've only worked with a few... rattlers are the most advanced species.:no1:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

theres 80 odd different species and sub species isnt there, and about 27 species? Those banded rocks are cool as well, they are a small species, I had the chance to buy an adult male a couple of months back it was 2ft.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

SiUK said:


> theres 80 odd different species and sub species isnt there, and about 27 species?


something like that... i can identify a bunch but nothing compared to they real variety. some have unreal colors... some crazy color morphs could be developed from them i'm sure.... i've seen blue ones... so grey that they are blue.... i ought to start a thread of pics of all the species and subsp.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

I see, i was just born in the wrong country!


oh well i'll just have to bring the wildlife to me!:bash:


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

pics HABU!!!!! yes that would be fab!!!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

too many to post.:crazy:


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

No such thing as too many! The retic morph thread went on for nearly 30 pages.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

HABU said:


>


 
stunning, a canebreaks definately on my license next year.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

SiUK said:


> stunning, a canebreaks definately on my license next year.


so many timbers and canebrakes are uglyIMO... finding a really handsome one is great!... the nice ones are nice!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

here's an albino canebrake..


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

i like this one>








*Mexican Lance-headed Rattlesnake
*_Crotalus polystictus_


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

here's a cool site:

Arizona Rattlesnakes


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

Yup looked at that before it helped me narrow my search


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

what about the rattleless rattlesnake C.catalinenis, thats a pretty cool rattlesnake.


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

_Crotalus catalinensis_
Santa Catalina Island Rattlesnake

Kinda takes away the whole point of a rattlesnake though?:bash:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah I agree, but the evolution of it is amazing


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## xxsassyminxxx (Jan 3, 2008)

How bout the scaleless rattlesnake?









i dont like it looks dehydrated


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

:lol2: I saw my mates scaleless rattlesnake yesterday, they call it the slug, horrible looking thing.


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