# Locust breeding. What am I doing wrong please ?



## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

I wonder if anyone can help me. 
I already have a successful roach colony, cricket breeding tank, wax and mealworm dens of iniquity....but as locust are the most expensive but staple diet of the Chams the time ( and bank manager ) indicate now is the time to breed locust.
I've read and researched and am all googled out. I have some problems.
I set up a main viv 24" x 15 x 15, wooden ( sealed with non toxic aquarium etc ), front opening glass sliding doors, cut in ample ventilation, mesh covered for ' hanging ' and moulting. Heat / light bulb giving 95 f backed up by night time heat mat. Between them both giving 24 hr constant heat. Inside is a playground of branches, sticks egg cartons etc. Newspaper on base. This is the main ' holding area ' for all stages.
I have also set up a breeding tank...smaller but pretty much the same to house the adults.
I feed a constant supply of thoroughly washed dark greens, carrots, butternut squash, sweet potatoe, apples, kale, dandelion and bug grub but no 'water ' reading they get enough from fruit and veg ?
First prob - Bought a large batch of med / large to grow on. All fine until a week ago then for no apparent reason they all started dropping like flies. Would fall on floor, roll on side or back, frantic as is they couldn't right themselves and if they were luckly died, if unlucky my other problem...the remaining cannibals ate them...in some cases these cannibals would just attack and bring down perfectly healthy flatmates ! I guess I was losing a dozen a day like this. It seemed to happen as they were all within 48 hours of their linal moult.
What have I done wrong? Is it the temperature, not enough ventilation? Anyone else have locusts turn into evil flatmate eaten gits overnight?
Out of 150 my chams only got 25 the rest died or were murdered ! Shute I never even got the chance to feed the chams they were to be eaten before they had the chance !
So, I now have a few adults ( bought in yesturday ! ) 5 new fleglings ( only survivors of my batch ) 
Of the fledglings 2 have just died today ! The adults are all jiggy jiggy....I need to get the sand pots in quick but because of the loss from both tanks don't know what to do for the best. Is it natural to have some loss as they take their final moult?
Failing that I must be doing something wrong but I don't know what. Is it the lack of fluids? 
Anyone out their breeding locusts that can help please?


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

at the moment breeders are keeping all their females back because alot of breeders ad trouble with locusts so it could just be you ave a load of males


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

You have obviously put some effort into researching their needs !

I would suggest you let them get cold at night. Warm 24/7 is NOT good for them (I assume you have Schistocerca). Keep warm for around 14 hrs per day.

Cabbage greens/kale and bran is enough. Fruit is unnatural and I wouldn't recommend it. Likely to lead to the wrong sort of gut bacteria. You don't mention bran. Its important. They need it. Or is bug grub bran ?

Mine get some carrot too though. But only a little. They don't need water if they have fresh greens available.

I suspect either they are being poisoned by insecticides or some resin/glue in the wood. If you simplified the diet you might be able to eliminate possible toxins in the food. 

If you buy meds them 80-90 % should make it to adult. It is better to grow them on rather than starting with adults.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> at the moment breeders are keeping all their females back because alot of breeders ad trouble with locusts so it could just be you ave a load of males


Thay wouldn't explain the loses in the first batch. I would have thought females would be identified at the adult stage and seperated then, not before.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Bryan...thank you for replying... so good to get informed help. With the bought adults and their recent jiggyness...either I am lucky or have purchased a bunch of gay locusts? ( no offence to anyone :flrt

Blaptica...I read a lot of your very informative posts, infact I believe it was you that questioned and practises the no night time heat...I shall do as you suggest. I also read a thread where you said you breed both kinds and rushed out to check for stripy eyes...the ones I brought on - fledglings - seem to have stiped eyes...but the adults don't ....? Gulp...so they need different care...re heat etc ?

This bit is really sad :blush: in desperation I read through pages of an American doc / study on locust aggresion in the 4th stage...and how they anaylize all the various biological levels etc....very interesting actually. All this while my Chameleon lent over the top of my laptop looking for food...any food :lol2:

Thank you both for your replies


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## .Justin (May 29, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> You have obviously put some effort into researching their needs !
> 
> I would suggest you let them get cold at night. Warm 24/7 is NOT good for them (I assume you have Schistocerca). Keep warm for around 14 hrs per day.
> 
> ...


With the bran... I've brought some for mine do you give wet or just as it is? 
(Stupid question...sorry!:bash
J


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Opps...forgot...sorry 'ole girlie here....just rechecked fledglings and found 3 now all on side frantically scrabbling ....they looked like they were ..just cooking...so I turned light off....within a couple of mins they calmed, stood up and went to food....( including the one I thought was dead ) ??


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Justin, I serve dry....am very aware of moisture content and humidity...


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## .Justin (May 29, 2008)

FrankSpencer said:


> Hi Justin, I serve dry....am very aware of moisture content and humidity...


Sorry Frank I didn't mean to be coming across as criticising you for the Bran I was asking a question about giving Bran to mine but looks like I was asking about yours! Sorry!


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

No problem Justin...I didn't see it as anything but trying to help me :2thumb:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Almost certainly you have Shistocerca. They are the ones that are yellow/ black as young rather than burnt orange/black.

Locusta like 30-35c Shistocerca 35-40c. 

I have some good books written by German breeders who say that Locusta can cope with 24/7 light heat and will breed faster. BUT Shistocerca need to have a cool period everyday. They grow to adult in around 4 weeks. That is fast enough in my view !

The bran is needed to balance the water in the diet. Greens on there own is too much moisture for them. 

If they are too hot they will stay away from the bulb. If they are always near it they are too cold. 

Although I feed carrot ocassionally it is not needed. Locusts in the wild eat green leaves and some dry leaves. They do not dig up Sweet potatoes or find golden delicious apples in North Africa. The commercial breeders, to the best of my knowledge, use spring greens and bran and nothing else. Thats what they thrive on.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

*Update*

Just thought I'd come back with an update seeing as you helped in my hour of need.

I lost the entire lot in the end. Never did really find out why. I sterilised everything and started again with 50.
I did make a couple of husbandry changes, turned light/heat off at night leaving only a low heat pad to combat the cold room they were in but the drop in temperature was still quite significant....and adjusted their diet to just spring greens and bran. ( Thanks Blaptica )

Within hours it was an embassing orgy in there, I waited and waited but the girls wouldn't lay. the laypot was 3/4 sand and 1/4 organic soil. After a while of head scratching I removed laypot and replaced with new one containing 3/4 Vermicilte left from my Chameleon incubator and 1/4 playsand. 
Within minutes the females flocked to the pot...it was like a busy day at heathrow...stacked and packed queueing to get in and lay. This has continued every since. All adults alive and active.....only minimal and natural loss.
As for the original sand laypot I took out, I figured rather than waste the sand I'd ' cook ' and re-use. As I tipped the pot onto the cooking tray 3 ' worms ' fell out ( yes yes I soon realised what they were :bash while slapping my forehead hard and unceromoniously scooping them up, I chucked them back in the pot and put them in a RUB with heat pad under and today, 59 little buggers appeared and are still coming.....

Three further pots of the verm/sand are cooking and due in 4 days too. This I am really looking forward to as I know how many pods are in there :2thumb:

I put the RUB in the bath to catch them and have put them into crickets tubs for the moment.
So, my first attempt is looking good and am pleased i seemed to have got the set up right but how that first lot hatched I'll never know :lol2:


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

congrats, am having the same problem as you did - getting them to lay. Will try your laying substrate mix. How wet do you make it?


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi swift
I took round tupperware's, although to be fair the next batches I used a mixture, one being marg pot.......Taking a bendy straw I bent at it's crease and placed the shorter section so it was lying flat along the bottom, while keeping the longer bit flush up against the inside, running up the side of the pot to the top. So it was a letter ' L ' Then added one sheet of dampened kitchen roll folded in quarters and placed at bottom of tub over the straw on the bottom. 

The verm / sand mixture was put together in a seperate bowl / container and I poured cooled boiled water from the kettle and mixed up to the consistency of crumbly but not lumpy crumble...not so dry that it ' sifted ' through fingers like dry sand at the beach but not so wet that it formed globby lumps. I certainly couldn't sweeze any surplus out.
Then I loaded in the dampened mixture which inturn held the straw down / in place. I didn't pack it down hard, just gently pushed a little with finger tips. 

Now I don't now how different the impending batch will be but the first batch I placed a bag over, secured by rubber bands...with a few tiny holes in, inside the RUB. Stayed like this for about a week but I was having to remove condensation 2-3 daily so just removed it and left open in the RUB.
I still have to remove RUB lid everyday to deal with condensation and I have still not worked out whether there's either not enough ventilation in the RUB or I had too much moisture in the pots. But they hatched...so am currently working with the thery ' if it aint broke dont fix it ' :lol2: Also, I struggled to maintain 80-85 as they were in a room without heating and night time temp dropped to 73 -78 so with the weather turning / condensation / near cook experience I didn't hold out much hope anyway. Amazed they hatched. Or maybe I was trying too hard to perfect the uneccesary. Certainly am continuing in this vein until the next lot do or don't hatch....this will answer all my quandries :lol2:
After this next batch I'll try elimination process to cure this just don't want to fiddle about with hatching so close.
The straw was in place to ease keeping the entire pot damp should it dry out although never used as they layed immediatly and I read not to add moisture after laying. 
The pots were at the bottom of a 2 ft tall viv in the cooler section....still not sure if the temp has anything to do with it.

Now, todays conumdrum is how to stop the tweeny weeny waxworms from escaping from the incubater ! :devil: 
Phew ! I don't half go on ...sorry


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Just occured to me....( sorry not telling Grandma to suck eggs ) but they have actually mated rather than just go ' riding ' ?
Secondly have to add that co-incidence may of played a part I guess.....as in the time I changed the substrate was the time the mated majority wanted to lay...


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

will have a go with this version today. definately not "riding" as i have seen them with their abdomens twisted round each other.

regarding the blastic bag / condensation, have you considered nicking some of the OH's tights? Unless she wears fishnets 

also, how longs the wait between laying & hatching?


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

:lol2:.......don't have a partner and secondly if I did...HE wouldn't last long if I caught him in MY fishnets :2thumb: :lol2:

That's actually a brill idea....will try in the future..but as I still have some condensation with this impending bunch of rebrobates I doubt it would cure it...


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

...bugga...just re read that and realised I left more than one option :lol2:
For the record book I'm a girlie :notworthy:


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

( pay more attention woman :bash
Time between laying and hatching for first surprise batch was 14 days.....and just went out to feed the roaches and another pod is hatching as I type...not sure whether from same original pot or the second verm ones...will go on baby vigil and report back...coz if they are from 2nd pot they have hatched in 10 days with no bag....


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

lol, kk FrankIE, its the name that threw me. Internet obscurity is great. Have made the mix, will let you know the results.

Thanks for the info.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

lol...np..grew up in a mans world so used to being called mate :lol2:


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Have cured the absconding teeny weenies...someone on here suggested / using a cut up, upside down, inside out type coke bottle invention. Absolutely brilliant, made one small modification at the cap end but that member wa a lifesaver..

Pleased that's out of the way so tomorrow I can concentrate on making a pigging ' pooter '. I have spent most of the evening ( and missed the Rugby :devil: ) leaning over the bath catching more, more and even more hatchlings.... they are soooo fiddly to catch - so pooter is my next best friend :flrt:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

FrankSpencer said:


> Just thought I'd come back with an update seeing as you helped in my hour of need.
> 
> I lost the entire lot in the end. Never did really find out why. I sterilised everything and started again with 50.
> I did make a couple of husbandry changes, turned light/heat off at night leaving only a low heat pad to combat the cold room they were in but the drop in temperature was still quite significant....and adjusted their diet to just spring greens and bran. ( Thanks Blaptica )
> ...


When I first bred locusts I used to use just damp sand on its own, and I got excellent results. I would recommend you try that as an alternative at some point in the future. I am going to try it again this week ! One thing locusts hate is old lay pots. You need to change them every few days.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

FrankSpencer said:


> Have cured the absconding teeny weenies...someone on here suggested / using a cut up, upside down, inside out type coke bottle invention. Absolutely brilliant, made one small modification at the cap end but that member wa a lifesaver..
> 
> Pleased that's out of the way so tomorrow I can concentrate on making a pigging ' pooter '. I have spent most of the evening ( and missed the Rugby :devil: ) leaning over the bath catching more, more and even more hatchlings.... they are soooo fiddly to catch - so pooter is my next best friend :flrt:


Isn't it alot simpler to let them hatch in the cage you are going to use to rear them in ? Once they start to hatch I move them to a new cage.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Blaptica
Do you mean leave the laypots in what is to be the rearing viv, removing / replacing pots as needed ? If so then yes I am sure you are right....it's finding tiny tiny mesh for good ventilation but still preventing them going walkabout while little. 
One thought I had was to invent a multi purpose viv because I am currently using so many heat mats / lights etc with seperate containers.
My plan is to sub divide a larger viv to include adult, feeders, nursery sections.
Assuming I can get universal temps right then somehow incorporate the incubater area in too.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

After a few days of laying i remove the box, put the lid on and place it in my incubator. When I see the first babies emerge, I place the box into a new cage and remove the lid. I grow some wheat in a small tub for the babies as a first feed. I aim to have the wheat last for few days. 

I used to buy a aluminium mesh from Halfords that I would recommend. 

I use very large plastic boxes and replace the lid with a wooden one that i screw into the lid of the plastic box. A large mesh panel is fitted into the box, a light bulb fitted into the lid, and hole made for access with a cover just big enough to get the lay pots in, introduce cabbage/wheat/bran etc. Once all the babies have grown on in each cage, I remove the lid & clean out the box ready for the next batch of babies. 

I don't think locusts are a good idea on a very small scale.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

can I ask...when you add the lid a few days after laying etc...how much ventilation do you allow....I opanick if I see so much as a droplet and am always having to remove lid to wipe off ( I accept that maybe the sand mix was too wet then conbined with the heat process...is my own making :bash


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Whatever mix you are using as you know it should be damp not wet. Are you putting the tub onto a heatmat for incubation ?

I only have a couple of very small holes in the lid (2-3mm each). The same as when I incubate lizard eggs. 

After a few days in the adult locust tank the surface of the tub will be dry which is fine as long as it is DAMP where the eggs are below.


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

After trying several lying mediums it appears mine like a 25% sand to 75% eco-earth mix. Found one laying last night, this morning there were 3 identifiable holes with a possibility of more that I hadnt noticed. 

now to see if they hatch.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi there ....Right, update....

The hatchlings are now in with the feeders...now 3 star and looking great. Have to say....Blaptica is right again ...the sand worked better than any other substarte I tried.
This man / person knows his stuff...but I do want to ask him.....you clearly differentiated ( sp ) the two types of locusts. During the frozen and somewhat restricted supply over the Xmas period I have found myself with a third type? :mf_dribble:....so we have the stripy eyes...and the 'solid ' eyes..of which I now find myself with equal portions....but I also now find myself with a different 'lot'. They not only shed differently but once emerged look different. Their eyes are beige with only one tiny spot, no stripe. Their whole body is light, bordering on opaque and their demeamour within the adult cage is strange. While all the others do what we expect of adult locusts..these chose to point downwards all the time. 
Hoping you can enlighten me here ?!


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Great news. I'm glad that your doing so well with them now. Re sand , If you think about it, what else would a Desert Locust (the commonly available locust) want to lay its eggs into ? Thanks for the compliments by the way.

Re the "third" type of locust, I am not sure. Newly emerged adult locusts look very different compared to mature adults. PLEASE PLEASE post some pics. Can you take some pics of both the solid eye type and the spot type. Do these new ones like the same sort of food._ Locusta migratoria -_ the Migratory locust (solid eyes) really only likes to eat grasses. It will eat cabbage if it has has nothing else though.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Blaptica
Yes these new ones are very odd. Food wise, hmm well I really only feed spring greens and bran but whereas both the others, rush to the leaves like they havent eaten for a month, the tiny eyes seem less interested and tend to hang about and chomp only when they happen to come across them in their travels. You make a good point though, maybe they have a different preference, I'll pop something else in and see if their reaction changes.
Their appearance doesn't change from newly emerged adults through to mature apart from their pink legs and natural darkening of wing pattern as they dry. . They are definatly bigger than the other two types and the only analogy I can say is they act like King Penguins :blush: a senior, aloof, almost majestic alpha type....just re read that and realise how dopey it sounds but only way to describe.
I can't believe how many hours I sit and watch the adults behaviour, find them totally absorbing and they have such a clear language amoung themselves. starting the breeding of them has changed my mindset, to the point I really struggle to feed them after their breeding is over :lol2:
I'll go and take the pics now and post shortly


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

I understand what you are saying. I was feeding mine this morning and I was thinking about them, and I know that even if I didn't keep reptiles I would work with Locusts anyhow. I find them fascinating

Locusts can be alot of work and I am sure unless you have a decent collection of lizards there is little point in breeding them, rather than roaches UNLESS you really enjoy working with them, like I do.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Ummm...the test...have I done the images correctly? 








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Yes !!! Ok the best I can get so far of tiny eye...this is a mature adult, although has looked this way since final shed. Apart from the wings it is totally all cream coloured, no variation at all just plain cream. A bit like a Locusts answer to a magnolia decorated house :lol2:

Another to demonstrate colour and size difference to Mr stripey eyes












Here we have all three types


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Ok I going to admit I am not sure here about the "spot eye" type. I will go and have a look at mine later. Certainly _Schistocerca gregaria -_Desert locusts start as pinkish adults and become lighter in colour quite like the "spot eye" one. They also grow larger as they sexually mature. But I know you said they start pale. So I am confused. 

There is also two "phases" of Desert locust , the gregarious and solitary strain. If normal Desert locusts are kept in very low densities , they start to change colour and behaviour. Only the gregarious types will swarm. There is a gene that can be switched on and off depending on the density of locusts in a given area. But I don't think that is the answer. I think normally the solitary types have green hoppers, which i think you would have noticed !

I wonder if there could be a hypomelanistic strain of Desert locusts ? This might sound unlikely but I there is for example a white eye strain of black crickets in Germany, and I breed a strain of house crickets that include many adults that are a rusty red colour, very different to the wild type. 

The Locusts on the right in pic 2, and the left on pic 3 are defo _Locusta migratoria _- the migratory locust.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

I know it really is wierd..I have spent time on google trying to find one..no luck so far.

The images really don't show how different they are or how much they stand out from the stripy's and solids. In the flesh they look like a light butter pat with wings, and their eyes are exactly the same colour as the body. If they didn't bulge like glass beads a quick glance would leave you assuming they had no eyes, such is the perfect colour match / camoflague
Yes I confirm they don't change anything from final shed to death. The colour density stays the same it's almost like they are porcelaine as their creamy colour sort of looks transparent....You get the feeling you could ' candle ' them....

When the first lot shed, while their almost white wings where unfurling and drying, my first reaction was....'' typical - trust me to get the Albino ones '' because aside of their wings that's what they look like


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

If I am right about the hypomelanistic gene or similar gene, then I would expect the young to look different too. Do you have young ones from these yet ?

It could be a different species, but they look from the pictures like paler identical versions of the normal desert locust


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't have youngsters from these yet, although there are two pots ' cooking ' due in a few days.

Now you have made me think.....my first WOW regarding them was at their final shed....while they were in the main feeder tank either they looked no different or I didn't spot them. The later I doubt, as said previously I am an avid voyeur and can't think I would of not noticed. Certainly I was / am very interested in a nearly completly black batch..to see what they turn into because their current colours of black, beautiful rusty red and gold is stunning. And solid black, jet black wings.

But to believe that we have to accept that they emerged into these tiny eyes during their shed - and that might be a stretch too far ? !!


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

_Locusta migratoria_ young are very different to _Schistocerca greg_aria. The former are mainly black or a very dark brown, with what I would describe as a burnt orange colour also. The later are black with yellow and some white patches too. 

Also the _Locusta _young have quite a different shape. The heads/front ends are bigger in _locusta. _

It will be interesting to see the young ones look !


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Blaptica said:


> It will be interesting to see the young ones look !


Not as interesting as trying to catch a photo of them :lol2:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't have any Locusta at the moment. Would it be possible to buy any you have spare, when you have a bigger population ? Maybe you could send me a mixture of what you have including the pale type so I can see them for myself !


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

:gasp: to Portugal ?:blush:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

Yep ! If thats ok ? It not illegal ! Normal international post is fine. Obviously I would pay extra for international postage.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

...sorry .... was teatime

Umm, I guess so yes, as long as it's ok and they won't die in transit but chances are the package would arrive quicker than me getting mine from 200 miles up the road lol.
Caught me a bit off guard...not that I am complaining, but don't any livefood companies send International?

So, other than packing sensibly and sticking on ''livefood ' sticker I would post as normal? There are no other requirements from me? Would they fly? :lol2: I know I know how stupid that sounded.....but won't they die in the cold of the hold?

Hmm clearly not an International entrapeneur am I ?:mf_dribble:


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Frank, What are you using to house your hatchlings to stop them escaping?

Thanks


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Karl
As soon as they hatched I took to the bath to move. As you know they are bugga's and so tiny :devil: At least in the bath as they jump about I can see and catch without them escaping.
Once caught they go into the feeder boxes my livefood comes in. Inside with them is a couple of egg carton bits and twigs, coke bottle lid of bran and small daily fresh springs greens. After first shed I head back to the bath and transfer to the smallest size cricket keeper. I only use the container, not the lid, instead I cut up tights, using a leg portion, rubber banded one end around the container lip and tied a knot with the other end in the centre on the top.
I will say that just either of containers would propbably be ok on it's own but I do this because as newly hatched I worried just a net cover wasn't providing enough heat and then as they grew.....It felt cruel and I felt guilty they didn't have the space ( i'm a girlie ignore me lol ):blush:

Have to say the tights top is brill, what ever you want to do in there, just tap the top to bounce any climbers off, undo and slip your hand in and they can't escape. 

Both types of boxes were kept in the incubator ( RUB on heatmat ) until I released them into the main feeder tank. I guess there's no reason why the boxes can't just go straight into the feeder tank from the start but they got covered in ...well everything...and with death, waste, vegetation blah blah was concerned about humitidy and or disease.

As usual I have probably made to much hard work for myself....but if it aint broke......took so long to get it all right I'm almost scared to alter anything :lol2:

Also, as always why can't I just give a one line / sentance answer instead of war and pigging peace?


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

sounds good.

How many are you producing? Are you finding it takes longbefore they go from hatchling->1st->2nd->3rd->4th->winged->breeding maturity.

Karl


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

FrankSpencer said:


> ...sorry .... was teatime
> 
> Umm, I guess so yes, as long as it's ok and they won't die in transit but chances are the package would arrive quicker than me getting mine from 200 miles up the road lol.
> Caught me a bit off guard...not that I am complaining, but don't any livefood companies send International?
> ...


With a little care in packing locusts travel well. As far as I know no UK company normally stocks locusta, they only buy them very ocassionally from Mainland Europe breeders when they are short. If somebody knows differently please let me know !

Locusts are actually quite cold tolerant like alot of desert animals. Much better than some cricket species for example. The post would be normal yes. Normally the phrase "harmless biological material" is written on the box, as writing "livefood" can cause problems with insect phobic post office staff.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

KarlW said:


> sounds good.
> 
> How many are you producing? Are you finding it takes longbefore they go from hatchling->1st->2nd->3rd->4th->winged->breeding maturity.
> 
> Karl


Hatchling Desert locusts should take around 25-30 days to reach the adult stage, and a further two weeks before laying eggs.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Well these bloomin' locusts are confusing me now. 

About a week ago some almost invisable hoppers hatched. Very very pale and I assumed these were the offspring of 'spot eye's.....and still may well be.
So they became neighbours to the resident standard dark brown and tan coloured babies.

Coming home from a family meal I find an incubator full of bright, almost flourescent lime green babies.... Did wonder the quaility of the wine drunk but after a double take had to admit that the hatchery now looks like a dulux mixing machine on acid !!!!

The colour is the same as my Chams night time sleeping green, really bright and vibrant. Stand out like sore thumbs.

So are these the solitary strain Blaptica speaks of or the product of the 'spot eyes' ?

If they are the solitary ones....again I don't understand....solitary by DNA or because there would not be many living together? My breeding tank houses anywhere from 35 - 50 breeding adults. So it's not like they are only a few.....

Also, my sucessful babies that have survived are so different from each other. One in particular stands out....I call it ' Ada ' as in daft ada ( darth vada ) because that's just what it looks like....huge hooded head. No independant collar just this huge daft ada skull helmut stretching right down to central body.

bet there's a one sentance answer to this and apols to all that find my fasination boring :lol2:


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

There are hairs on the locusts that are sensitive to the touch of other locusts as they crawl over each other. If the brain of the locust doesn't recieve enough stimulation on these hairs then the locusts turn into the solitary form. Solitary locusts (_Locusta i think _) are green as hoppers. I have seen them myself. 

Its not just how big the cage is that matters. Its very good to provide more surface area so they can get a bit of peace and quiet, especially when they are shedding. But at low densities you may get the solitary form. But if you keep the hoppers packed, you can reverse the process. 

I have just come back for a cuppa in between making new locust cages. Looked at mine this morning, and can confirm many of my _Schistocerca _have a spot eye look as mature adults.


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## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Ooooo Blaptica, what a minefield....so, what do these greens ones turn into ? Solid eye, striped etc ?
You say I can reverse this which I shall attempt, but just wondered the pro's and cons of leaving as is. Is having green hoppers, as they advance, a bad thing? What are the ramifications of not reversing the process?

It appears then I have to pack some more in then. It's interesting though because despite having the space they tend not to use it ( don't need it for shedding as they enter this tank winged ) they clamber over each other to one side where the direct heat is. 
With that and the fact that the males are like sex pests and falling over each other to hound the females 24/7, and in most cases have formed a queue, I would of thought these hairs would of been stimulated.

Woken today ( with a headache :whistling2::blush: ) to find another bucket full of hatchlings. Couple of dozen brown 'standard' ones but a sky full of more green ones. Never had them before and it seems they have only appeared since the arrival, maturing, mating of the spot eyes. Before their arrival all hoppers were just the brown and tan variety ( although I have these very pale ones too ? )

Oh I don't know :bash:

Ooo glad you have spot eyes, thought I was going mad ( or had a rare variety I could sell for millions lol


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

You remember before the internet came along we had these things called books ? Well I looked it up. 

Solitary phase hoppers can be plain green or brown, without other markings. Whereas the gregarious phase hoppers we are used to, have the mixed brighter colours. 

What you will find probably is that the green ones will be less active and excitable, and will grow more slowly. They don't have the same appetite. So it is definately better to encourage the gregarious type to be produced in the future. 

Though frankly if your not doing it for a living it doesn't matter that much.


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## s3kcy (Dec 4, 2010)

think i might breed locusts instead of dubias.... hmm


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## swift_wraith (Jan 4, 2009)

s3kcy said:


> think i might breed locusts instead of dubias.... hmm


dubais = easy : heat & food plus dark area to keep in = 99% success rate.
locust = arrgh! : heat, food, correct laying medium (which is a nightmare in itself) = 75% if lucky.

Am myself only just having successful hatches after about 3 months of trying different substrates.

But my dubais, breeding faster than i can feed them off :mf_dribble:


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