# Does anyone know where tamarins are for sale.



## Frilled13 (Mar 4, 2008)

Me nd my friend where at drayton manor and he fell in love with white lipped tamarins after a hilarious event with them today. he now wants a pair and is planning the encolsure and plants and food and everything. But does anywhere or anyone sell anytype of tamarin or marmoset?

BTW, for anyone wondering about the funny thing, a tamarin stole one of my friens gummy cherries through the bars of the cage, the other monkeys ended having a tamarin war over one sweet! we named the winner furious george. and one of the baby marmosets became obsessed with me for some reason.


----------



## bannyian (Jun 13, 2007)

how did the tamarin steal a sweet from his pocket, i do presume you never put them right up to the bar to intentionally give the marmoset a sweet


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

gummie cherries????

*cringes*

if he stuck that on our primate vetting form, i would be able to hear rory crying into his hands from a mile away..

you should NEVER feed zoo or display animals anything that the keepers have not provided you with.. most are kept on regulated diets to ensure they get the right combination of nutrition..

N


----------



## Frilled13 (Mar 4, 2008)

It stole it out his pic n mix bag, it then tried to steal his everything else but he kept it away.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I think the point, Frilled13, is that the pick and mix bag should never have been within reach of the tamarin in the first place - because that sort of artificially coloured, artificially sweet nonfood can do them harm.

I'm sure it's quite possible to get a pair or troop of marmosets, but what will he do when he realises that they're not cute little people in furry costumes, they're actually little omnivorous monsters that can bite, do scratch and aren't really an ideal "pet" as such?


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Frilled13 said:


> It stole it out his pic n mix bag, it then tried to steal his everything else but he kept it away.


sorry.. but as ssthisto says.. how on earth did the bag get close enough to the tamarin, for her to take a sweet from it.. if it was not being held there for her to reach in the first place?

tamarins arms are not that long.. the one i baby sat for a night this weekend, could only reach out maybe 4 inches from the mesh to me..

(i know her old owner will read this.. so when you do, she was fine.. come and took food from me even during the journey in fact!! AND ate all she got given bar a tomato, lol.. bless her..)

anyway, yes... most pick and mix bags are more then 4 inches deep.. and most tam's arms are not very long... IMHO there is no way, that one could have reached through the bars and "accidently" got into a bag of sweets held by someone on the other side of the wire, unless that person had not offered the sweets within reach in the first place. now whilst i don't want to call you a liar on an open forum, personally i suspect there is some doctoring of events going on.

in order for us to sell someone a tamarin, you must firstly be over 18, and you must secondly fill and, and pass, our 3 page,40 or so question vetting form. you would need to (or your mate would) display a good understanding of the animals you were interested in.. aswell as proving to us that you had suitable accomodation for them to be housed in. we would NOT sell singles unless they were going to a home where there were others for it to sit with. we will NOT sell to someone who only has enclosures in their house, and no provision for full daytime outdoor access.. and we will not sell to anyone who wants a primate they can dress up and treat like a small child.. this includes people who feed them things like lollypops!

there was an 11 month old female tamarin for sale in the classified not long back.. for £4000. her pics included some of her eating a childs lolly, eating cheesy puffs, and sitting in her designer parrot cage in the front room.

personally i would rather see private primate keeping banned than that sort of thing go on.. and most of our contacts are fully aware of this, even if they do not all agree with me. 

in some ways, i agree with people like Alison at monkey world.. if they cannot be kept properly in private hands, they should not be IN private hands to begin with. 

now i know that will get some people hopping, but hey, whats new, yes there are private keepers who keep them just as well as zoos, and yes there maybe zoo's who do not keep them as well as some of our clients.. but.. i do not class our clients in the same league as i do muppets who keep a single female tam in a parrot cage in their lounge and feed it frigging cheesy puffs...


*pauses for breath..*

N


----------



## Frilled13 (Mar 4, 2008)

who is alison? BTW, for some reason all the biting and scracthing makes him like them more, and he understands how much room they need because of their energy and agility, and im going to tell him all the details you just gave me, but actually finding a seller sounds the hardest part.


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

*Nerys*

Do you and rory keep primates,or have you ever kept primates?Looking on an old howletts video,john aspinall often gave his gorillas chocolate as a treat.This 40 question form,if someone fills it out,you supply primate,something goes wrong,are you liable in any way?People can tell you anything or write what they think you want to see,it means nothing. Is it just to cover your own arse.


----------



## mad achmed (Jul 5, 2008)

most zoos feed primates thing they dont get in the wild and when jf was at that zoo it was how he got them to take there meds


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

looking on an old video... 

well.. thats nice for him.. i know people who feed their dogs chocolate too.. despite it being toxic to them.. personally i don't feed any of my animals chocolate.. 

bit like i don't feed the skunks grapes.. as some have died from fgrape toxicity.. yet i still know people who do feed them to theirs..

i dare say he would not have been too happy with a stranger feeding them jelly sweets packed with chemicals and e numbers however.

tbh what john did with his gorillas is not really got a lot to do with a visitor to a zoo who feeds the primates jelly sweets IMHO

the form we ask people to complete, is done to weed out the majority of the people who want to keep a monkey on a lead and take it out for walks.. or keep a tam in a parrot cage in their front room.. you do not, as far as i am concerned need to have kept primates to know that sort of thing is wrong. the forms are seen by the sellers, who's responsibility their animal is, and they will judge whether or not they think the applicant suitable. if a seller says no, then we listen to their opinion. we have just had this happen with skunks.. someone applied. filled in the form, the form was sent to the seller, and the buyer was rejected by them.

i have never kept a Liger.. another species we are handling for clients.. but i know it would not be suitable as a house pet.. why should it be any different with a primate? 

and we actually do go and see people where necessary when primates are placed with new clients. a face to face meeting is, as you know, a lot better than something written down. as yes, you do get to see if they have done what they say. 

we get a lot of people bleating on about the fact that we do not personally keep primates.. so why should we have an opinion. well to be honest.. why shouldn't we? we act as brokers for people who have primates for sale. and people who want to buy primates.. we speak to private primate keepers daily, who have more experience between them than hairs on rorys head.. unlike some sites.. we do not unlawfully plagerise other peoples work, we always ask keepers to contribute, and we always credit where that has happened. we are always actively looking for new research and development into their captive care, and the legislation around it.. you can always, if you think our infomation is so bad.. volunteer to contribute some of your own, we always welcome pictures of enclosures, and care articles on species people have experience with. your lemur pen is jolly nice for instance.. so if you think our lemur info is not up to scratch, feel free to contribute something better...

(trouble is, most people cannot be arsed...)

tska work more on primate codes of conduct than most of the private primate keepers out there. most of whom, and yes this is a dig at some of you, who cannot even be arsed to get involved in the working groups proposed to protect the rights of the private primate and his keeper... i've long said to rory, and to others.. that there are a few private keepers out there who DESERVE a ban being in place. as they are the ones who cannot be arsed to get up and do anything about the current situation. its that head in the sand, let everyone else sort it out, mentality again.. the apathy seen by many private keepers pf things like primates.. dwa cats... etc.. is imense..

our forms are not there to cover our arse no.. they are there to aid in the selection of a suitable home for the species they apply to. it is not just potential primate keepers who get screened... 

does it cover my arse to know a squirrel monkey is not being kept in a bird cage? course not.. its not against the law to keep a squirrel monkey in a bird cage (yet). 

does it try and ensure that the monkey is in a decent environment? yes, it does.. and at least we do not just sell primates willy nilly to any old muppet who has the cash, 

....which is, lets face it, what most of the other primate brokers do.. and if you know the UK primate market.. you will know what i mean by that. 

for every 10 people we screen, 8 are rejected.. 1 is not bad, and the other 1 is someone who is willing to learn.. yes, it means we sell less primates than the likes of the people i refer to above.. but hey ho.. thats life isn't it.

and tbh.. a-b-b, when a form comes in and says.. cage provided.. large indoor aviary in the front room.. we don't really need to read the rest..

likewise if it comes back with 50 square foot pen out the back, with heated indoor section, etc etc etc. then we either go visit, or ask for other proof.

knock us if you want. i have to say i really could not give a monkeys.. *boom boom* you do what you do, and we do what we do.. if you don't like us, or what we do.. then you are not the first and will not be the last..you cannot please all the people all the time. and on that selection of clichés, i will leave it..

Nerys


----------



## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

animalsbeebee said:


> Do you and rory keep primates,or have you ever kept primates?Looking on an old howletts video,john aspinall often gave his gorillas chocolate as a treat.This 40 question form,if someone fills it out,you supply primate,something goes wrong,are you liable in any way?People can tell you anything or write what they think you want to see,it means nothing. Is it just to cover your own arse.


 Yea Nerys....You or Rory (david badiel) even seen a monkey:whistling2:
that was a joke BTW before you rip me a new one...LOL


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I agree totally with the concerns as to HOW the tam could reach the sweets in the first place. Do the zoos not have totally secured enclosures any longer ( not been to the one you went to) where they have barred outer fences and then a further fence about 2 metres away with a sort of moat styled thing in it?

Anyhows - your friend will come to realise that aside from scratching and biting etc, they will have to fund a VERY large outdoor enclosure withindoor outbuilding attached which is heated and follow a very complex diet that doesn't include jelly sweets and such like.

Other that that, I know nothing - I don't keep primates!


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

*Nerys*

I hope you dont mind me asking,do you require any sort of licence to do what you do i.e a pet shop licence,for buying and selling livestock.Just interested do you or rory have any qualifications in animal welfare-You dont need to go all defensive ,these are just out of curiosity .I think you will find most zoos if you know them give primates treats as lures.Their complete diet apart from livefoods is alien to what they would live off in the wild.The only trouble with giving these animals sweets is that it rots their teeth.


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Surely rotten teeth is not the only concern? I won't give my children jelly sweets as most contain artifical colourings, flavouring, unknown amounts of glucose, sweeteners and E numbers.

Would the chemicals in these sweets not have an adverse affect on a primates digestive system in any way - it is farrrr from what they would ever get in thier natural diet which is miniced as closely as possible by thier keepers (apart formt he parrot cage brigade of course!)


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

What do keepers feed their primates in captivity ,what they would get in the wild,apart from live foods,what else.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi, 

Do we require a Pet Shop Licence?

No.

In recent legislation discussions concerning internet selling, it has been suggested that a licence would be applicable to us, l hope so, for it will lend weight to what we do in the credibility field. But at this present time there is no licence to cover anyone practising what we do. I wish they would bring out a licence, l know when it was first raised as an issue about 4 years ago, l said that l would be amongst the first to apply for it.

The pet shop licence is not applicable to us and as such we do not require it. The livestock for sale, does not live with us, we are not the actual sellers, yes we are the advertisers but not the sellers. Livestock for sale, stays with the clients until it is ready to be picked up by the buyers or we are responsible for delivering to the buyers.

We do not specifically buy and sell livestock, we co-ordinate the livestock through securement, screen and placement. There are times when we do host the finances for the seller or the buyer, and in some cases we travel to the location, secure the livestock on behalf and then deliver to the buyers.

Most of the time we travel and view livestock for sale or view the premises for the livestock to live with under the new buyer.

Dealers tend to actually buy the livestock and then resell, and l know that people have said we are dealers, but most often and not, our main task is to secure and screen potential buyers for our client base. 75% of the time, most of the sales are between the client base.

Animal Welfare no, again this comes down to the licence and the issuement of a possible licence. They suggest for those holding a psl, that an animal management course/degree/certification etc is a requirement. 

I have looked into this and taken advice on what is perhaps the best way forwards. I have some twenty years sales managerial experience, with marketing, promotion, advertising, business management and administration. Have been involved in the mammal field for some 16 years.

And recently looked at taking a degree in zoology, but a divorce has cramped my financial status on that for a while anyway, with a view to after that looking at something else. But to be honest a zoological degree is not even a necessity to what l do.

If an amimal management/welfare certification/diploma was essential then that is what would be taken.

R


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Thank you,a much more pleasant answer.


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

animalsbeebee said:


> I hope you dont mind me asking,do you require any sort of licence to do what you do i.e a pet shop licence,for buying and selling livestock.Just interested do you or rory have any qualifications in animal welfare-You dont need to go all defensive ,these are just out of curiosity .I think you will find most zoos if you know them give primates treats as lures.Their complete diet apart from livefoods is alien to what they would live off in the wild.The only trouble with giving these animals sweets is that it rots their teeth.


i'd still say tho, that no zoo staff appreciate visitors feeding their animals titbits unless its something provided by them for that purpose..

heavens its used to be bad enough when i had horses, with well meaning people giving them sugar over the gate.. and slices of bread through the fence.. 

with most captive animals, diet is something decided and regulated by the people who keep the animals. 

i think you will find most zoos, if you know them, would strongly discourage the public feeding treats or foods they have brought with them for their consumption to the animals for any reason at all. 

whilst a keeper might use something like a chocolate biscuit as a bribe to entice something into a box.. or chocolate drink to hide the taste of medication.. this is not at all the same as job bloggs feeding pick and mix sweets through the bars.

quals in animal welfare no.. i worked with quite a few vets in my school years, and went on to study zoology and geology at university, which is where i gained a lot of my general knowledge. i've been keeping animals of all sorts for some 30 years now, although its more recently that i have been able to work with some of the more exotic things. i tailored the zoology part of my course into looking at animal behaviour and ecology, in the geology side i looked more into the evolution of the mammals through the fossil record... and what that could also tell you about climate evolution through prehistoric time.. a mere scratch (or thousand) on the tooth of a lond dead ancestor of a horse.. shows when the first grasses evolved for instance.. i still have a set of gold plated horse teeth somewhere, one still stuck on the electron microscope mount!!

it did not teach me how to keep animals.. or what the latest document defra have realeased about how they should be kept should say.. but it was interesting none the less 

do you have any quals in anything like that? me, i am always up for learning.. so if you know of any good (and at the moment inexpensive) courses, let me know.. to me a day is a waste if at the end you have learnt nothing new.

Nerys


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

animalsbeebee said:


> Looking on an old howletts video,john aspinall often gave his gorillas chocolate as a treat.


Well, let's see. A gorilla weighs around and about double as much as an average human, right? I weigh in the region of 75 to 80 kilograms, so five grams of M&Ms or a chocolate biscuit is going to be about 0.00005 (five hundred-thousandths) of my total body weight. A TINY fraction. Double that for a gorilla's body weight and it's an even smaller proportion of body weight that they're being treated.

How much does a tamarin weigh? Something like 500 grams? One five-gram gummy sweet is 0.01 (one hundredth) of their total body weight - which is significantly higher proportionally.

That would be like someone giving me a kilogram of gummy sweets to eat. Yes, I could EAT it... but I'd be quite sick afterwards! The gorilla might not be - but give them two 1-kilogram chocolate bars and that could be a problem.


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Ssthisto,do you know any primate keepers who have given a sweet and its had an adverse reactions?Nerys,i understand what you are saying ,if everyone gave the monkeys a sweet they would be very unhealthy,but one now and again will not hurt,look at the crap humans eat,we were not designed to eat what we do.No like you ,the only qualifications is experience ,animals 40 years,exotics 23,all my friends are exotic keepers,dealt with several zoos that have given me excess stock,had top zoo people inspect my premises blah blah,but i have never pretended to be some kind of expert.I dont disagree with what you do i sold reptiles for many years,at the end of the day though,if someone wants a monkey if they dont get it from you ,who could advise,they will get one elsewhere and then it will end up in a rescue centre.Everyone who deals in animals should be open for inspection,rescues,private,some of these keep their animals in disgusting conditions.


----------



## Frilled13 (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah, BTW, my friend was annoyed by the baby girl one for 4000 by the fact it was eating bad, he is now saving up for a pair whens hes older.


----------



## dawn-no7 (Aug 22, 2008)

*tamarins for sale*

hi i have a white lipped red bellied tamarin for sale. she is 9 months old tame and mischeivous. please contact me on my email [email protected]


----------

