# Frog Terraium Set Up



## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

Hello,

Ive got a few questions relating to the set up of a Dart frog terrarium.

I have a large terrarium that I set up to grow Orchids, Bromeliads (Neoregelias), and other Epiphytic plants.

My question is whether or not this terrarium can be adapted to house Dart frogs?

Currently, the terrarium is, (converted glass display cabinet)
160cm H x 60cm W x 30cm D
Lit by a 400w MH
Kept at 70-95% humidity using a humidifier
Backing is sheets of pine bark attached to a sheet of wire mesh
Misted daily.
All water used is rain water.
The base is a plastic lined wooden box filled with moss over soil.
One heat mat.
One 120mm Fan running 24/7 (no external ventilation) 




























My concerns are:
Is the terraium too tall and narrow?
The temp at the bottom only reaches (in FEB) 15C, warmer nearer the MH bulb at the top.
Will all the bugs disappear in the cracks and crevices of the decoration, never to be found again?
Will the frogs climb or just stay at the bottom? Do dart frogs climb?
Too many gaps around the glass doors.

Hopefully there will be some photos attached to this post!

Do you have any other problems with this idea?

Many thanks for your time.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi mate,

I keep Dart Frogs and I make my own planted set-ups from scratch, however I have built with the Poison Darts in mind so this is slightly different than starting from scratch lol

It does look good I must admit! lol I personally think the tank is too tall and i don't think the entire area will be used by them :/ How wide are the gaps of the Wire mesh in the background because they do look pretty wide? 

You also need to think about which type of Dart Frog you will go for as they vary from all sorts of colours to sizes! 
Another problem would be the Temperature, all Poison Darts have different Temperature requirements anyway but it ranges from around 23'c to 28'c so if this was able to be used for darts you would have to sort something out about the temp at the bottom..

As for the live food might hide in the cracks, thats always a possibility in any tank set up really, what you should be more worried about is Fruit Flies being able to get out of the Terrarium! lol I had that problem with my tank lid (all sorted when i found out) where the fruit flies were getting out of a tiny gap you would never of expected! lol 

Is there a gap around the wooden box you have in the bottom? 

I'm not sure what other people might say about the set up, but these are the things i would think about the most really. 

Here's a basic care sheet for Poison Dart Frogs 

Hope any of this is of help but the best people to ask would be Richie.B as he makes these for people on a daily basis, Rainforest Vivs... Failing Richie try Wolfenrook, Soundstountie, Morgan Freeman theres loads of people that might be able to help you and give advice and their opinions! lol  

MantellaMan


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## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks Mantella Man,

I pretty much figured those were the problems I was going to expect.
The mesh gaps at the back are about 1cm square.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Pontsian said:


> Thanks Mantella Man,
> 
> I pretty much figured those were the problems I was going to expect.
> The mesh gaps at the back are about 1cm square.


Not a problem 

hmmm well bigger species of Darts wouldnt be a problem but things like E.Tricolour might be.... Is it open at the back then or is there glass after the mesh?


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## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi,

It's all enclosed, just need the mesh to attach the bark to as the back was mirrored. If I put the light inside the cabinet, and sealed it off, that would get the temp higher. It was in there previously, but as it got hotter, of course, the humidity got lower. I'll try putting it back inside and see what happens to the parameters.
The wooden box at the bottom has a gap around the front and sides of about 1.5cm.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Pontsian said:


> Hi,
> 
> It's all enclosed, just need the mesh to attach the bark to as the back was mirrored. If I put the light inside the cabinet, and sealed it off, that would get the temp higher. It was in there previously, but as it got hotter, of course, the humidity got lower. I'll try putting it back inside and see what happens to the parameters.
> The wooden box at the bottom has a gap around the front and sides of about 1.5cm.



ahhh right well i suppose that wouldn't be too much of a problem then! lol Well you could try that but i would be worried about the Darts jumping onto it and damaging their skin. I swear there must be a Heater/Radiator type thing thats small that you could put in there, I have heard of it before...
Ahhh ok well personally I would fill that up to, even though 1.5cms doesnt sound like a problem i would just fill it to be safe and just incase they try to get down into the gap (you never know lol) you could use expandable foam in the gaps and cut in flat and cover in it Aqua-Mate Aquarium Sealant and then Plantation Soil by Exo-Terra the same as you would a Dart Frog Viv Background.

What species of Dart are interesting you at the moment?


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

i dont think temperature will be a problem - as long as there are places in the viv where the temperature is about 18+ at night/winter then that will be fine - my leucs tend to sleep at the top of the viv anyway.

although it's a very arboreal viv, it still has a reasonable ground area by the looks of it - i'd say a pair/trio will love it in there...they'd have much higher climbs in the wild to find broms etc.

the only major problem will be making it completely escape proof for flies and frogs - all the other slight concerns can be easily sorted imo

i'd also remove those internal fans...also, how do you extract the water which builds up in the soil at the bottom from daily misting etc?


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## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

Many thanks for your replies. Mantellaman, I haven't thought about what type of frog yet, as I was just firstly trying to find out if it would be possible to house anything first. What species do you think will make the most of the height? Or is better suited to climbing?

As for the water at the bottom, it doesn't seem to be any problem with regards to water build up, it just seems to get soaked up in the soil and moss in the bottom. Gaps for bugs seems the best course of action at the mo. Will have to buy some more shower enclosure plastic trim. (costs a fortune)!


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Pontsian said:


> Many thanks for your replies. Mantellaman, I haven't thought about what type of frog yet, as I was just firstly trying to find out if it would be possible to house anything first. What species do you think will make the most of the height? Or is better suited to climbing?


Well, to be honest I think all Dart Frogs are good at climbing, all the ones I have kept and do keep seem to like going up high (but i have never had a 5ft high set up before so haven't got a clue about that lol). 

Well you can pick from a wide range of Darts from (here is a little list):



Bumblebee Poison Dart Frog (Dendrobates Leucomelas)
Blue Poison Dart Frog (Dendrobates Azureus)
Green & Black Poison Dart Frog (Dendrobates Auratus)
Dyeing Dart Frog (Dendrobates Tinctorius) which have way to many morphs so you have a wide range of Colours and Variations to choose from.
Yellow-striped Poison Dart Frog (Dendrobates truncatus)
Phantasmal Poison Frogs (Epipdobates Tricolour)
Rana Tricolour Poison Frog (Epipdobates Anthonyi)
Sky-blue Poison Dart Frog (Hyolaxus Azureiventris)
Maranon Poison Dart Frog (Excidobates Mysteriosus)
Ranitomeya Sub-Species
There are so many to choose from and if i listed them all we would be here forever! However some are for Experienced Keepers to Beginners so make sure you look into the species a lot before you buy any, I looked into them for a few years before I even thought of buying any just to be on the safe side for the Darts and to make sure I didn't get anything wrong  

The top 4 on that list normally get big ranging from around 2 inches, however Phantasmal Poison Frogs are one of the worlds smallest, being around the size of a 50 Euro cent coin lol so they really wouldn't need a Paludarium that size (you would lose them definitely lol). 

Dartfrog.co.uk have a wide selection to choose from at the moment, Here's a link www.dartfrog.co.uk and you can get loads, if you get the chance to go, at Hamm Expo_.

Hope this is of some help  
_


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## peterspets (Dec 17, 2009)

Not certain but is pine not toxiv?


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## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

> Not certain but is pine not toxic?


Thats quite an important point.

Any other people think this?

Thanks for the list Mantellaman. 

BTW, just realised that that I spelt Terrarium wrong. Doh.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

peterspets said:


> Not certain but is pine not toxiv?



Oooo actually Pine is a toxic tree isnt it, aren't all Evergreen trees toxic to human and animals? I'm not sure because I have seen Ray Mears in Bushcraft drinking Pine Needle Tea (each to their own, i will stick with PG Tips! lol) 

and not a problem but I would stop looking into your current housing for a little bit and concentrate on the animals and finding out a little bit more about them because if you do that then you will find your answer as to if they can go into a viv that high and if they will climb etc lol As I tell all my friends that are trying to get into the hobby, that you need to research into the animals care and needs.


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## Pontsian (Feb 19, 2012)

LOL, thanks again Mantellaman... Ill do some research on that list you supplied.:notworthy:


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