# Primates? I don't seriously get it?



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

We sell very few, l would probably sell more if l were to 'cool off' the screening, or what was the other comment' stop trying to screw the hobby' because of the advertised prices.

I am not a primate man, never have been, never will be. Its not that l don't like them as a species, but it is down to the fact that l would never ever wish nor want to own them personally within my exotic collection.

Nerys has expressed views in the past where upon she would like to have Tamarins - espec the Cotton Top variety, but me, nope, just don't get it.

So what is it?

Why do keepers want to own primates?

R


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Alot of people probs use them as fashion accessories like many breeds of dogs it makes the look and sound cool to say hey i own a so and so..........

But then again there will be people that are genuinly interested in them and its a hobby


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## ultimate_boides (Nov 18, 2007)

Having worked with them on a proffesional level i am with Rory i really cant see the desire, i have worked with them in both labs and zoos and in a private collection and i am also curious as to what people see in them? :crazy:


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

I have always assumed that people like them because they they think they are like children or little people and they will be their companion etc. I must admit I wanted one at one point but then I started to look into their case and requirements and decided it would take up more of my time than I devote to it so I just bought a dog instead. I would love a tasmainian devil but that will be something to consider in the extremely distant future if ever.


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## ultimate_boides (Nov 18, 2007)

Having worked with many species but having had hands on with the smaller animals i can assure they are extremely unpleasant at times even the small ones, 

I have a metal plate over my 5th metacarpel in my hand due to a break and even through a leather gauntlet a male cyno weighing no more than 7kg was able to break it clean in half resulting in re-constructive surgery. 

I am with Rory the whole way when it comes to vetting people, primates are not toys and arnt like corn snakes or other reptiles where mistakes can be made without paying the ultimate price, primates of all sizes can and will continue to be in my mind dangerous unless in a facility of proffesional people.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree with what you guys suggest. 

i've been looking at various posts where people with clearly no idea want to house some sort of "house"primate as you would a dog. They seem to think it's just like having a small child or something and rarely realise how difficult they are too please and the strength that they possess. 

I havent worked with them before, but I used to have limited contact at a drugs testing facility where I used to work. They are not something I would consider owning - the biggest reason is due to respect. I simply could not match my level of care with anything they would experience in the wild - space, diet, freedom. I really do feel that primates are a step too far in terms of "exotic pets" - its almost like a bout of one-up-manship with people competing to have the most bizarre and awkward "pet".


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Have to say I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments.

Yes, I think primates are fascinating and amazing animals. I enjoy researching them, watching documentaries about them in their natural environments but I would NEVER wish to own one on a personal level.

I simply do not feel that I could ever offer a primate all of it's advanced needs - basic needs are do-able for people but it is the complex needs they have that many fail to research that makes me feel I would never wish to keep primates.

It grinds my nerves to hear of people treating primates like children in thier homes living like a domestic animal - they are not nor should they be made to be a domestic animal. They are wild animals and should be given the repsect and care that they deserve!

Rant partially over - I may add more after I have slept some and my fingers heal from pinholes after sewing!


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2008)

I like to look at them but would not want to keep them at all .


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

Forget primates!
Get a **** sapien. They are free!

No DWAL required either!

How can you not want a gorilla in your lounge? Look at that cutesy pudgy squishy face. awww

















(this is yawning and not some sort of banshee scream of impending death)


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I love primates, and would dearly love to own them. 

My personal love is with intellegence, and instict. I cant stand stupidity!

When you look into an animals eyes and they are looking back, you get that feeling of "somthing going on behind the eye" its amazing. 

Having sat, with an orang for sevral hours in a zoo, (over the safter barrier and touching hands at one point) i am utterly in love. 

Eye to eye with somthing intellegent is great, even better when its not a human.

Alot of people think i am arrogant, but it is down to being uncomfortable. I don't know how to come across well with "stupid" people, so i try to surround myself with more intellegent people than myself, i feel happier being the stupid person in a group than the smart one. 

This carrys across with my other love, nature. Reticulated pythons and pit vipers (for instance) all see to have an intellegence about them. Calculating and acting(behaving?) in what seems to be a great mental capacity(instict?) which is why i love keeping and working and studying them. 

Primates is just a step up! Problem solving, recognicion and learning. It truly amazes me. 

I would dearly love to keep primates, but i am not in a position to do so. I would far rather see them through glass in a zoo, or 50feet away in the wild than keep one "sub standard" where i am now. I couldnt really meet the needs of most primates (possibly smaller species, but thats beside the point), and for that reason i dont keep any. 

Over anything i would love a Chimp. They are somthing else in my opinion. Just Amazing. i cant really put it into words, but its pure wonder, amazement and ore when i look into their eyes. 

Primates are good, but not in little cages, on leads or in houses....Thats my opinion.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Why would anyone want to keep snakes, or other exotic animals? It's to do (for us anyway) with fascination, nothing to do with fashion accessories, or to boast, it's pure fascination. 

They're amazing to sit and watch their interactions with each other, the world around them, and especially when there's a baby in tow, the poor thing gets a rum deal! I actually saw our female red belly give birth, I think that was probably my primate owning highlight.


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

I understand the fascination people have with them but have seen first hand far too many casualties of the exotic pet industry. Primates shouldn't be kept except for very specific reasons.


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## ultimate_boides (Nov 18, 2007)

Unfortunately some people aren’t like you and Rich and do keep animals for a fashion statement, I have been into private collections to collect bits and the persons come out bragging about how cool this is and that is. 

I know that a good friend of yours and Richards has common marmosets or did have and they were housed in half of a bird aviary which was completely substandard and i rate this chap highly so it shows even the accolades such as a shop and 30+ years experience they still get kept in sub-standard conditions.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Ank*

How young this thread is and already some extremely valid points.

Glidergirl in many ways has summed up how l am starting to view the world of exotic keeping, but she is spot on, it is not about ownership of a fashion trend, it should be about observation, learning curve, study.

I think my problem is two fold, l am starting to look upon primate ownership in a different light, because of the way a lot of ‘wannabe primate keepers’ think that they simply deserve to own this species and also even l am beginning to doubt whether keepers have the facilities to own them.

I know some truly remarkable keepers, that dedicate the right finances to the environment and spend all their time researching and continually doing so, but they are simply very few.

I know that if Nerys was to look into primates on a more serious nature then she would do so properly, we do have the space here to have a really large enclosure, with the right stimulation and environmental inclination and not have anything like the term GRB used which is lovely – being serious – ‘house primate’ l really like that term for its accuracy, but it sickens me to the bones, for this is how many people seemingly think of primates.

I get slammed for the screening, and people have often commented ‘lose that and you will sell more as a business’ but it really does not matter, l am a business, but the animals rights and the husbandry are my main focus not the business finance side. But l have just in fact done more to the screening on the primate side, it is now a very specific primate application, just primates, no longer general. Increased from 19 questions to 44, and has made it more difficult to answer for those whom think that it is all too easy to just google the answers. If you want to keep primates then you have to know them, you have to have done research, spoken to keepers.

The new codes of practice, which l sincerely hope do become active and are not rejected are needed, and l will be sick to the bone if yet another working group is wasted because of this and that. If the codes are rejected then, it will not be long before the likes of Monkey world and RSPCA do push for the prohibition of private primate keeping.

In the last year have really started to become ANK – Anti Numpty Keeper. And that does in turn damage your views of the way you feel, so much so that you really start to look at the ownership of any animal!

I am tired of people wanting Capuchins because this is the answer to in many cases another child, or a replacement child, that they can dress up and harness train!

Of late l have been reading into all sorts of documents from possible cop’s to zoological reports on various species. 

Due to lack of regulation, the exact number of primates in private hands will never truly be accountable but their popularity as ‘pets’ has increased – this terms aggravates me, l simply hate the term as many readers will know by my writings already. And to include primate ownership into the term – hobby – simply pisses me off further!

The stupidity of removing primates from the DWAL was as said plain stupidity for it has allowed a deregulation and further more policing of the species – and will lead to further abuse and neglect and increase the chances that primates will be secured to even more parrot cages and not the correct type of enclosures.

I found a very interesting article about primates and the disadvantages of ownership and l had to agree with the writer.

Ultimate Boides also included a very interesting term – cyno – in post 5, a cyno for those who are not familiar is in fact a species of macaque – cyncomolgus – a primate species long used in medical research. Nearly all adult macaques carry B-virus, but macaques alone are not just responsible for carrying numerous infectious agents.

Primates as they mature – more easily recognised in the bigger species, but can be said of the smaller species also – become very unpredictable, and l have known in some cases, extremely aggressive and volatile in their behaviour. People forget the armoury that primates actually carry with their teeth and their nails. Bites can be from painful to serious and in some cases fatal. 

Then we look at the fact that they can carry infectious contagion’s that can be transmissible to humans, indeed as many ailments humans have can be passed onto their primates – the likes of viral diseases, fungal diseases, bacterial diseases, parasites, mites, 

http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/aboutp/pets/zoonoses.html

Far too many wannabe keepers new to primates and sadly not researching believe primates to be harmless and can be raised like children and simply do not have the knowledge that they can be dangerous. Most people purchase primates out of a need to satisfy a whim, curiosity, ‘fashion accessory’ a ‘keep up with the Jones status symbol!

Perhaps a lot of this can not be specifically aimed at some of the smaller species, but with more and more people thinking it is simply okay to want to own the likes of Capuchins and beyond, they simply do not take into consideration that bigger primate, bigger problems.

A 9kg primate can floor a man/woman quicker than most people would care to imagine!

The call from many keepers that they want young primates, because they are hands easy and docile is bull crap, these primates grow! They are incredibly intelligent, and in many cases more so than their owners and as such can soon rise higher in the social family circle than keepers may well imagine. People do underestimate that in the wild these animals are part of highly sophisticated and stern social hierarchy groups. So how just because the term captive bred, hand reared really makes them less docile, less harmless?

Imprinted primates are possibly the worst, they will attain sexual maturity at anywhere between 4 – 8 years of age, and by this time as an imprint will have acquired some pretty non desirable traits, possibly even aggressive ones to boot!

They are an extremely expensive species to maintain when done properly and responsibly, they are messy both in and out of their enclosures, so can not be housebroken, they piss every where, easily startled, can lash out for no reason.

Am l really in favour of primate keeping?

Very much so, but in the right environments, under the right husbandry, with the fact that although no directly they do not have the vote, but you as a keeper do have the political vote and as such, you hold the voting aspect for your animals rights as well as for your own keepers rights.

But l do expect people to truly research their undertaking, primates pending species can live from 20 – 50 years and are not always the cuddly image many beginners seem to perceive, and that this wanton need for the likes of young Capuchins is and must be seen as ridiculous, for under the wrong management, this sort of primate alone can become unmanageable - owners can easily abuse primates by locking them away in a ‘cage’ and thinking that the monkey is happy! When the reverse is occurring!

Difficult primates, imprinted primates are virtually impossible to rehome, and are sadly through no fault of their own, are better off dead than in captivity. GOD, l never thought l would agree or see sense to that term, but it is a truth statement here.

The need by those who wish to keep, the constant call for young marmosets – 3-5 months – unacceptable! To want this is damaging your primates needs, they are neglected the parenting from their mothers – their real mothers – needed because without it, your desires are cheating them of their physical and psychological development. You would not expect to be told as a parent that your children were to be taken away from you just after birth or a few months later, because another person wanted them for their pet, would you?

So l say to those, stop expecting this off primates!

Those who want to keep singles, grow up or a better term would be get over yourselves, primates are not domesticated such as the cat and dog, they are still a wild animal, you can not furnish that animal with the right needs, environment, companionship nor health, to keep in a single environment is killing it softly but albeit, killing it!

So no, l still fail to see what people see, if they want as many do, to maintain them in the totally wrong unresearched environment.

But maybe that is just me as an ANK!

Rory Matier
PKL: Pro Keepers' Alliance


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

WEll bloody said!!! (insert clappy hand smiley here)

It is a sad shame that more suppliers and breeders of primates didn't follow the strict guidelines you do for primates Rory. Fact is that these are not "pets", they are specialist exotics who require more than your average pet keeper to enable them to develop correctly and there are a sadly low number of people who can offer them this.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

how could you not want an animal that plays with itself and flings its own crap at elderly visitors?

no but seriously, i dont really understand it too much either. i do love primates even though they are thieving gits somtimes.... but the level of care required and time needed just doesnt make them condusive with a normal life. any private keeper would need to be extremely well off to dedicate the time they need. probably wouldnt be able to work 8-10 hours a day and have enough hours in the day to sort out diet, enrichment etc.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> how could you not want an animal that plays with itself and flings its own crap at elderly visitors?
> 
> no but seriously, i dont really understand it too much either. i do love primates even though they are thieving gits somtimes.... but the level of care required and time needed just doesnt make them condusive with a normal life. any private keeper would need to be extremely well off to dedicate the time they need. probably wouldnt be able to work 8-10 hours a day and have enough hours in the day to sort out diet, enrichment etc.


 
And in many respects that is correct Dave.

Primates are demanding, is it simply enough just to have a pair?

Perhaps the answer is in fact to run a troop, where upon there would be several interactions and exchanges going on at the same time between the species - this is how they are in the natural environment, sure, there are many species that have solitary animals, but are these usually not on the outskirts on the community, so they still share in the comradery?

The sad fact and no, even then that is not right - it is not a sad fact, it is a hard brutal fact. I am becoming harder on primate keepers, my clients now expect me to be harder on primate keepers or those making enquiry into the ownership of primates.

I am instructed on an almost weekly basis, of how this should be, and how that should be, plus what l install myself, combined with the legislation, the market politics, what the anti groups think, what they would like to see the list is endless, and to think that is just what is involved in the selling of them and ensuring that they go into the right responsible ownership. 

Running primates within the collection of a keeper must be done to the same hymn sheet, it must be dedicated time, it must be enthusiastic interest. Its a full time job, looking after exotic animals - it is a full time responsibility looking after any animal.

The TSKA Consultancy website is changing in the next 4 weeks - a complete overhaul, which means a new website is being built, a new professional image based website, that will concentrate on codes of practice, politics, legislation, husbandry, the works. 

We are in a new era, where upon things of yesteryear are no longer acceptable when it comes to animal ownership - people, both keeper and non keepers view this site, pro keepers and anti keepers, regulators and deregulators, all of them watch how we work.

So with so much pure concentration upon how we operate as a consultancy, this is why l am so oft confused as to why many novice, wannabe and beginner keepers do not undertake the consideration to ownership with a more in depth responsibility?

Primates are extremely political, and more and more questions like l have raised with this thread alone are being asked, if they were not, why does the opposition feel the need to push for prohibition on so many species?

I have raised this with primates, but it could be raised with any number of the species we keep. Yes indeed, many could throw the question back at me about the skunks Nerys and l have......do you not think that l also think about other species in captivity the same way as l do about primates?

Of course l do!

And the TSKA Consultancy will be displaying this type of 'moral challenge' in respect to all keepers.

People l suppose in many ways do not refer to me as an anti for no apparent reason. I am not anti keeping, l am very much for pro keeping - but pro keeping and the right to do so, does not mean that it is an easy path to follow does it?

I am probably worse than an anti, they are against the keeping of any animal predominately exotics, l am a pro keeper with anti keeping views! You try living with it, am l right to think this way? Of course l am, for this how we should all be viewing the way we keep.

We are supposed to be far better in the way we review things, apparently the antis do so with very little knowledge - but when l think about primates and the numpties out there, l tend to side with the opposition more.

R


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Pretty much my own sentiments tbh. You know far more than I, and I cant really go into the detail of the politics and law regarding them.

However, Having gotten into the exotic pet "hobby" only a short while ago, I am finding myself more and more anti keeping of just about everything. There is so much ignorance in the industry, and the keepers...argh. I won't name any names, but the person who owns 1000 reptiles/cats/inverts/dogs and continually posts on here that they are ill rather than taking them to the vets is a prime example. Grr, I feel my blood getting angried up! :bash:

I just think that in all but exceptional cases, Primates are that step too far (1) in terms of keeping as pets. To me, they are the sort of thing that should remain wild. Whilst I'd love to see inverts get the same respect, they CAN be catered for in small tanks, and individually. Its a different legue with Primates. I have to admit, there has to be some real passion, or some real ignorance to even try keeping Primates. Its a scary challenge.

[(1) There are a lot of other pets I feel need this same approach...not all the same size scale as lions etc. I think some T's deserve to be well left alone...seriously, why are Cobalt blues so popular?!]


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

ultimate_boides said:


> Unfortunately some people aren’t like you and Rich and do keep animals for a fashion statement, I have been into private collections to collect bits and the persons come out bragging about how cool this is and that is.
> 
> I know that a good friend of yours and Richards has common marmosets or did have and they were housed in half of a bird aviary which was completely substandard and i rate this chap highly so it shows even the accolades such as a shop and 30+ years experience they still get kept in sub-standard conditions.


Really? Hmmmmm, I only know of a breeder with marmosets and he doesn't keep them in half a bird aviary, I don't know of anyone else with them currently. I'm intrigued now, who was it, is he REALLY a good friend, and who are you? :blush:

I can't bear the fashion statement thing, there are too many people who 'want a monkey', it makes me sick quite frankly!!


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

GRB said:


> Pretty much my own sentiments tbh. You know far more than I, and I cant really go into the detail of the politics and law regarding them.
> 
> However, Having gotten into the exotic pet "hobby" only a short while ago, I am finding myself more and more anti keeping of just about everything. There is so much ignorance in the industry, and the keepers...argh. I won't name any names, but the person who owns 1000 reptiles/cats/inverts/dogs and continually posts on here that they are ill rather than taking them to the vets is a prime example. Grr, I feel my blood getting angried up! :bash:
> 
> ...


In many respects l agree.

It is not that l don't want to see them owned, but l want to see them owned properly and not just half heartedly as many keepers do so. I can not speak about Tarantulas, for l have not got a great deal of knowledge there.

I get sick and tired of seeing posts, with so very little body to them when it comes to the ownership of this species [primates]. Tired of the same old excuses, of we have one and it lives in a....... but not for long! Or we have a single now, and although not ideal, it will not be for long!

Its my pet, and l know what is best for it!

Genuinely responsible primate keepers are passionate, not the wannabe buyers, who see them as 'pets' for the latter is not what they are at all. It is foolhardy to see that term used by the ignorant.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

glidergirl said:


> Really? Hmmmmm, I only know of a breeder with marmosets and he doesn't keep them in half a bird aviary, I don't know of anyone else with them currently. I'm intrigued now, who was it, is he REALLY a good friend, and who are you? :blush:
> 
> I can't bear the fashion statement thing, there are too many people who 'want a monkey', it makes me sick quite frankly!!


Yes well said Marie, too many people just want to own a monkey like its the in thing to do today.

R


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> In many respects l agree.
> 
> It is not that l don't want to see them owned, but l want to see them owned properly and not just half heartedly as many keepers do so. I can not speak about Tarantulas, for l have not got a great deal of knowledge there.
> 
> ...


I think if you saw the state of the T hobby end, you'd be just as upset. There is so much confusion over simple things like latin names, origin etc. I cannot stand on the high ground here as I have two vinegaroons which atm as unknown - however, I have contacted several arachnologists to help identify it, and I've read numerous books on most aspects of arachnid biology, so I feel that I am quite knowledgable in my own little niche. 

What annoys me is that many people dont even take this simple step in ANY pet ownership. How many people buy a pet, and THEN ask what it needs to live? Even if its something as relatively undemanding as an invertebrate, or as complex as a primate, research should be done first. What annoys me, is that often it isnt - both by keepers and animal breeders.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

GRB said:


> I think if you saw the state of the T hobby end, you'd be just as upset. There is so much confusion over simple things like latin names, origin etc. I cannot stand on the high ground here as I have two vinegaroons which atm as unknown - however, I have contacted several arachnologists to help identify it, and I've read numerous books on most aspects of arachnid biology, so I feel that I am quite knowledgable in my own little niche.
> 
> What annoys me is that many people dont even take this simple step in ANY pet ownership. How many people buy a pet, and THEN ask what it needs to live? Even if its something as relatively undemanding as an invertebrate, or as complex as a primate, research should be done first. What annoys me, is that often it isnt - both by keepers and animal breeders.


Well said GRB, 

The sad fact is that we live in the 'l want , l want it now market!'

Have seen one and that is the ideal.....a,b,c.d,e ......'pet' for me lol!

It is way too easy to buy many animals nowadays, from inverts upwards, far too few sellers ask the right questions and far too many really worry about it after their pockets are filled.

Now before a great slap is awarded me by sellers, retailers, keepers or breeders - take a step back and think if you have met the ideal seller, or been the ideal seller.

Oh sure we have forms now, but four years ago and before the forms of two years ago, l did not have all the right questions aimed at buyers. It takes work to get the right questions aimed at the right species.

Now l have the primate one up and is does affront people, two years ago l worried about that, now l do not, they are not offensive questions, but they are direct access to the knowledge you either already possess or have researched.

I will be introducing several very direct forms from this point onwards aimed at numerous species, from sugar gliders upwards.

But now four years on, l am asking the right questions, keep track on all the species we sell and genuinely do care about the animals and the keepers whom have parted with them - not saying l did not care before, but now the focus is out there that that is what we are about.

Focusing on husbandry, rights, and so on.

More sellers need to concentrate on this for a numbering of reasons, it shows responsibility, it declares that you do have the right attitude.

Marie will slam into Sugar Glider owners, poor care sheets etc, and why should she not? Well of course she should, she offers an excellent service with sugar lumps, she wants to make sure everything is right for animal and keeper. There are fantastic reptile sellers out there that do the same........it is the responsible way forwards - reputations are hard to achieve but so easily shattered, you have to work at it. 

When you are good getting the right success ratio, then you will be slammed and criticised anyway, for being too hard, or too strict and so, SO WHAT?

Least l can sleep at night, as can the other responsible sellers.

R


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## miffikins (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree with most of what you guys have said. I do not know much about keeping primates and probably never will, but I firmly believe they should be left to zoological institutions and those few keepers who have the time/resources/money/experience to deal with their needs. They are super intelligent and I see why people want them as 'pets', there is a definate fascination with a non human being which can express emotions and most probably has a concious, thinking mind. 

There is a lot in the whole 'cool' 'fashion' thing too. A mate of mine recently said his dream when he gets a job was to have a monkey like Ross in Friends. I think I controlled myself quite well :lol2: I tried my best to explain that it was a ridiculous and cruel idea in a way that wasn't insulting to him, but really I just wanted to have a massive rant at him. I explained how much space/enrichment they need, the fact that they need to be in social groups and pairs are pretty damn insuffiecient etc etc but as I don't know much on it I tried not to get preachy.

I will never understand why people would want to degrade/deprive a primate so much to keep them as a house pet, and I hope those that do get severly bitten. But then WHEN that happens, what happens to the little cute monkey???

I think everyone trading in primate should have as strict rules as TSKA does with their exotics, then maybe it would make people think more than twice about what these animals need and how unsuitable they are to fit in to daily life. 

As I said, I don't know a lot but thats my 2 pence

: victory:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree - although I'd like to see more control overall in the whole industry. Its so true about the "I want, I want I want" thought process. I thinkmost people seem to have quite balanced veiwpoints, which is nice.

I have to admit, there are times where I just would rip into people who post the typical "i've got one of these (common name) how do i care for it please". Argh. The other thing that aggrovates me, is the collections people have: I often wonder what possesses someone with relatively little experience (eg 6 months) from wanting 20+ animals - be it rats, inverts or whatever. How can they possibly be experienced enough to cater for so many animals safely? 

I have researched arachnids for my whole life - starting with field guides when I was young, to my present books on their biology - and I would never suggest that I could realistically look after more than about 5 inverts. I have only about 8 months experience as a keeper, and I'd never want to risk animals by having too many to look after correctly. I'd be even more petrified to try my hand at numerous vertebrate/reptiles or primates - hell, it must take ages to become even half competant with primates, and that's not good enough. I'd have to do a hell of a lot of research.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

GRB said:


> I agree - although I'd like to see more control overall in the whole industry. Its so true about the "I want, I want I want" thought process. I thinkmost people seem to have quite balanced veiwpoints, which is nice.
> 
> I have to admit, there are times where I just would rip into people who post the typical "i've got one of these (common name) how do i care for it please". Argh. The other thing that aggrovates me, is the collections people have: I often wonder what possesses someone with relatively little experience (eg 6 months) from wanting 20+ animals - be it rats, inverts or whatever. How can they possibly be experienced enough to cater for so many animals safely?
> 
> I have researched arachnids for my whole life - starting with field guides when I was young, to my present books on their biology - and I would never suggest that I could realistically look after more than about 5 inverts. I have only about 8 months experience as a keeper, and I'd never want to risk animals by having too many to look after correctly. I'd be even more petrified to try my hand at numerous vertebrate/reptiles or primates - hell, it must take ages to become even half competant with primates, and that's not good enough. I'd have to do a hell of a lot of research.


And this is why l feel it is going to be very difficult to have the codes of practice not just written but also adhered to , when so many inexperienced keepers just want to get them and not really bother to read up about them.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*"I will never understand why people would want to degrade/deprive a primate so much to keep them as a house pet, and I hope those that do get severly bitten. But then WHEN that happens, what happens to the little cute monkey???"*

Hi Miffkins, 

The trouble with that happening is that then all decent keepers are suddenly tarred with the same brush as that of the twit that gets bitten.

We can all be twits, including me, l got mauled by my Racoons a few years ago, but l was attacked inside their cage, the animals went from being playful to all out aggressive, and it was my error which triggered it. But then l am a keeper, of not bad experience and l made a ten second error that resulted in 2 minutes of scorching hell.

But l did not shout out about it, the press damn them of course were on the scene very quickly due to hospital staff informing the local press. But a backward farmer who upon giving me a lift to the hospital objected to the fact that he had a four foot blood gusher hitting his window screen!

He told the press, that the Racoons were loose, and would undoubtedly get into his cat flap and run off with him during the night!!

Which was bollocks, they were still in their cage, oblivious to their sudden increased popularity, lol.

But you see all keepers can get bitten, but then whilst Racoons and a host of other species are under the political exotic hammer, they are not under the same pressure as that of primates.

If primates bite someone, and the press get it, they will turn it into a carnival of fear, in which the antis will thrive upon for it feeds their guns that drives their opposition bullets.

And with the current level of feeling from the exotics keepers themselves it would not take long for even the opposing pro side to join in - this happens all the time from snake bites to spreading malicious rumours about a host of things.

It was rumeroured recently in fact that our animals [skunks] were all sorts of things, from smuggled to carrying strange zoonotic diseases that could kill. This too was not true, they were tested and were found to be clear.

But when you think that the treadmill of malignant rumours is oft started in this industry alone by our own side, then the press and the antis do not need much of a run up to start the ball rolling and of course when the first press releases come of 'primates attacking and king kong sized bites' for that is how it will read to sell the stories, then we will start to see the pressures increase greatly upon the keepers of this species.

So whilst l fully understand your sentiment, l actually wish for no keeper especially novices to be bitten in the process of them keeping this species, for this will do more damage for not just an already paranoid primate keeping market, but also start the avalanche of criticism about all exotic keepers in general.

*"They are super intelligent and I see why people want them as 'pets', there is a definate fascination with a non human being which can express emotions and most probably has a concious, thinking mind".*

Sadly in most cases, the primates the inexperienced keep are a darn sight smarter than their keepers and this in itself makes for even more troubles.

And yes they are smarter, remember the film Link? lol

All keepers and in so doing sellers of not just primates, need to exercise more care and attention to would be buyers of anything exotic or otherwise.

R


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Firstly ill say i would like to keep primates, but in the same sense id also like to rule my own country. Its something i can think about, day dream per se but i fully realise i will probably never have the time, money or land to keep them to the standard i believe they need. As a conservationist it would be a dream if all the animals could be maintained and kept in the wild without threat from habitat loss or poaching but its obvious that theres a long way before this will happen. 

Perhaps in some nieve way people may think they're helping this situation by having a primate, ive seen primate keepers say that they're providing a 'safe' environment as if to say the wild isnt safe anymore. 

On a slight tangent perhaps the issue is with the sellers rather than the buyers, if you cant buy something readily then most people will grow tired of searching and wont bother. I typed 'capuchins sale' into google.co.uk and the first page at least were all adverts for monkeys for sale. Homes On Sale - 4 Detached, beline, Cute Baby Capuchin Monkey for sale buy and sell property online is the weirdest by far, a website for selling houses but used to advertise primates.

It would be easy for me to say to make it illegal to sell primates without a specialist license but tighter controls are needed. If people cant acquire primates then hopefully most of the horror stories we hear would be stopped. Ebay have quite succesfully banned the sale of livestock on there so surely other websites such as preloved and other advertisement sites could enforce this. 

This could lead to an increase in a more underground and clandestine primate sales industry but surely this would lead to an overall reduction in the number of primates in the hands of 'numptys'.

As you've said Rory primates are incredibly strong, lethal in some cases but there is nothing stopping me buying one tomorrow and ending up with it mauling me, my OH or someone else. Yet i can get IDed in Woolworths if i try and purchase a plastic knife and gun sales are strictly limited. The regulations are seriously messed up simply because they're considered 'pets'. 

The legislation just doesnt seem to be there. You always refer as primates as politically hot animals, but the politics seem very aimed at what could go wrong rather than preventing the idiots acquiring primates in the first place.

Anyways im sure this makes some sense in some parts of it, its trying to type whilst This Mornings on, lol.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

zak

as far as i am aware, there are currently NO genuine adverts for:

capuchins
spider monkeys
"most others"

on ANY of the current internet classified websites dealing with the uk...

with the exception of our (TSKA) ones..

so bare in mind when you read the web classifieds, that quite literally 99.9% if the ads you see for primates are scammers trying to get money.

so many people fall for it.. even a couple going through our vetting at the moment, who have incidently said they will allow us to show pics of things like the enclosures they are building to our specifications, have been done out of 2000 before they spoke to us.

we actually went to see them the other weekend, and poor things, they were terrified we would not turn up, or would turn up and demand money with no animals in sight..

i still cannot believe people fall for them time and time again, but almost none of the classifieds sites are well enough policed to do anything about it, even when you report the ads as being scammers, most of the time they are left in place.

N


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Surely there are other places than TSKA that deal in primates hence people acquiring them?


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

of course there are..

but none of them advertise online..

becasue of their very nature - both politically, and in terms of the keeping side of them, most primates tend to change hands privately via word of mouth.

cage and aviary is one of the only other places you will see genuine adverts, and thats a sort of newspaper. i think there may be a couple of more trade aimed magazines who show ads too actually..

but no, apart from that, i believe tska is the only place you will see publically placed adverts for genuine UK available primates.

which is precisely why we vet in the way we do.. as much as the keeper has a responsibility for keeping them correctly, we have a responsibility to sell them "correctly"

there are a couple of genuine marmoset adverts out.. although tbh, i don't happen to think a lot of someone who sells 12 week old single marmoset babies to people with no questions asked, bar "where is my £1000"

but bar that, to the best of my knowledge.. none of the uk classifieds based anywhere, in any sphere, have any genuine adverts on at all.

mind you.. there are, as there are in every sphere... dodgy and unscrupulus dealers out there..

(which people like emerald and phil the drill, would love to think we are..lol..bless them..)

there are people who will sell you a single "larger" primate (by that i don't mean a marmie or a tam) and they don't care who is buying it, or how they are keeping it. i have even seen people associated with "that sort of thing" come on forums like this one, and try and slag others off.. but thats just the sort of low life they are i guess...

it does happen though.. for instance.. i do know a lady.. who sold someone a tiger cub two years ago.. no questions asked.. no checks on dwa or enclosure (neither of which the buyer had incidently!) same lady... apparently.. is up to it again at the moment, or has been within the last 3 months... again offering illegal large cats for sale in the private market with no questions asked, other than.. "where is the money"


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

and then you get people who just have no idea what they really would be taking on..

for instance..

im looking for a little cheeky monkey to care for young or adult
*Price:* free or small amount
young or adult monkey to come to loving home with lots of hugs and kisses delivered if possible if not i maybe able to sort transport out any where in uk someone plz get bk to me asap on 01xxx xxxxxx

*City:* bradford 
*County: * west yorkshire 
*Country: * United Kingdom 
this one... ***** WANTED : CAPUCHIN / MARMOSET / SPIDER MONKEY*****

sounds a least a little more sensible about it.. but even then, whats the chance of her having the money or facilities to buy something like a pair of capuchins? she will be looking at adverts listing them for a few hundred quid, and saying they can be kept in your house like a child.

on uk classifieds at the moment, on the first page of exotics, there are 16 primate ads.. 2 are wanteds.. 1 is a genuine looking marmie seller.. (no idea on her ethics but her ad looks real at least) and the other 13 are ALL scammers.

freeads.co.uk, in fairness, is very good, scammers on primates normally get taken off pretty sharpish..

adtrader.co.uk is also not doing bad these days, there is only one ad showing, again for marmosets, and again it looks a more genuine advert...

although i would like to point out, to the tossers who moan we are too expensive.. that this seller has a price of £2500 for pair of marmosets.. as well as a black eared for £2000.. which is a lot less then our clients have asked us to list their marmosets for on TSKA.

preloved.co.uk, just has three wanted ads for cap's at the moment, two of which we have spoken to (and IMHO all of whom are dreamers...) a wanted for "albino marmosets" (dreamer again i would say) another 3-4 ads wanting marmosets.. one of which might stand a chance.. and a random bloke asking for "a pet monkey" no species specified.. again.. i think dreamer category springs to mind.

friday-ad.co.uk is doing well today, with no primate wanted OR for sale on there at all that i could see

but you get the jist of it...

N


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

I agree with this. There are no end of scammers who will take deposits for exotics (not just primates) then not supply. 

Unfortunatley, it's not the hardest thing in the world to get hold of them with no checks or license. I've seen animals people would believe kept in places which are inconceivable. 

IME, the smaller primates are the most widespread black market exotics. Very sad. The crap state of the DWAL laws don't help.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

there are indeed some right wankers out there barry 

from people who like to rip others off.. to people who don't care about the animals they are selling... to people who maliciously and inaccurately try and damage the accounts or names of others...


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

I saw you guys have had some problems with reputation recently. It's a pity people resort to that. IME an upright and honest business doesn't need to behave like that to succeed - if you have to then you're doing something wrong.

I was chatting via PM to Rory a while back about things we've been asked to source. It's nuts what some guys will ask for. What's sad is that sometimes they can get them. I once saw a fully grown saltie croc in a bath tub in a third floor flat. Luckily for all involved, it's not there any more. The thing was brought in a pub apparently.

The primates are the saddest, closely followed by the big cats. I'm a big supporter of correctly done private keeping and breeding, especially in endangered species, but to see them housed wrongly by clowns breaks my heart.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

yeah, i guess some people just like to chew their own livers for want of anything more constructive to do..lol..

basically, we were accused of "infecting the UK skunk population with Coccidia" of beng "skunk killers" 

based on the fact that one of the 40 or so skunks that were sold via TSKA, regretably died about 4 days after we sold her and before payment had been requested for her. of course we did not persue the payment issue, it was sad enough that one had been lost.. without adding to the grief felt by the person who would have been its new owner.

a PM was requested, although we are still waiting to see the results i might add, and from the information the would be buyer gave us, the cause of death according to the veterinary pm was inconclusive, although there was coccidia present.. it was not given as the cause of death, merely mentioned with the results...

from this.. the would be buyer then had a conversation, in a reptile/exotics shop, with 2 people, whilst a further two people were present, the shops owners. somehow.. despite the would be buyer not telling anyone else about the death... it then started to be spread around the north and west, that we had, as said above, infected the UK skunk population with coccidia.. and were being labeled as "skunk killers" :bash:

we had ours tested at the time, and had negative results for coccidia... and we have just had them all tested again.. they don't just get tested on one sample either! i spend days collecting them! 

anyway, as we suspected, they have yet again come back clear. all 7 skunks we own this is.. 

so as to where the coccidia present in the one that died came from, i do not know, but it certainly is not in our stock.. 

i do know the 4 people who were there during that conversation, i have spoken to both the would be buyer, and one of the 4 there since. and i do pretty much have an idea who it was who passed the information on..

as the actress said to the bishop.. "Just bend me over a table and f**k me over why don't you!" 

anyway.. its nice to know our skunks are clear, one day they might meet said person, at which point they are all dying to s**t in that persons face!

(not that i was kinda disgruntled by that accusation or anything... :whistling2

i know its not got a lot to do with primates... but i also know 4 of the 5 people concerned will read this thread at some point.. so.. now you know.. asshole.. get your facts straight before libeling us next time.

Nerys


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

TBH Barry, 

It is just one of those things, every body can get tarnished at one point or another.

The big thing that many keepers seemingly throw at TSKA as a brand in the selling of primates is that, we do not keep primates, and because of that - we do not know sufficient enough to sell them.

Yet if you go to a recruitment agency that specialises in - lets say - warehouse staffing - then what you will have there is people who have worked in industry, they may not have direct experience in the positions they are looking to fill, but they will have enough overall generalised experience in the warehoues side of the industry to know what to look for in the applicants.

They too will be able to devise the right questions by themselves as well as ask specific questions from the clients to complete the rest.

Now that agency will not get criticised for the mere fact that they have not worked in all the specific positions that they seek to fill for their clients.

But we do, Nerys and l do have vast experience in the world of animals, what is the difference?

I have sold Big Cats, Giraffes, Wolves,Zebra, Elephants and a host of other species that l have never owned and am never likely to own, l am not criticised by buyers nor sellers there...why?

Primate keepers are a hard market, at best they are paranoid about the state of play on their species they maintain, politics demand that the primates be restricted in the keeping and the antis wish to see them completely prohibited. Primate keepers need to stop dilly dallying about how and who sells them in a responsible manner and find their voices again if they wish to be able to keep them long term.

No l do not keep primates, and tbh do not see the genuine appeal, but l believe that if kept correctly and responsibly then keepers have the right to maintain them within their chosen collective. I will stand up politically for primate keeping in the right hands, but l will also knock those who do not keep them correctly!

Big Cat species will be next on the agenda by the opposition if they succeed in the prohibiting of primates, and there are not many of those keepers as there are primates.

Ironically, in this thread - we have not specifically had any response from those in this forum that do currently keep primates,a nd of who were so gallant in their defences for wanting, or already keeping primates, and who would have us believe that they keep them in perfect conditions now............

R


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Well at least you had all of your skunks tested Nerys, just in case, which was the responsible thing to do, but I'm betting that cost you a fair whack aswell. 
Dont let these people get you down hun, some of us know that you would never ever knowingly sell an ill animal. 
I suspect there may be an element of sour grapes mixed up in all of this, some people do not like to see others doing well


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

I heard Nery and Rory raise kinkajous to eat as food  I also heard they organise seal clubbing outings, and that Rory was solely responsible for 9/11

*shakes head*


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Dam Mason, your source is good!!

[Makes mental note to increase propaganda payments from £1 per week to £2 to opposing sides]

R


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

T.S.K.A

Taliban Seal Klubbing (erk) Association

:lol:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

:lol2:

Mmm can't do you kinkajou i am afraid..

but do have a nice recipe for Raccoon with sweet potato stuffing..

1 dressed raccoon, 4 to 5 pounds







4 teaspoons salt








3 cups sweet potatoes, mashed








3/4 cup seedless raisins








2-1/2 cups soft bread crumbs








1-3/4 cups apples. peeled & diced








1/4 cup corn syrup








1/4 cup butter or margarine, melted








1/4 teaspoon pepper

Remove the raccoon's waxy nodules, (commonly referred to as "kernels") from under each front leg and on either side of the spine in the small of the back. Wash meat thoroughly and dry. Remove part of the fat, leaving just enough to cover the carcass with a thin layer of fat. Sprinkle 1 teaspoon salt inside body. Fill with mixture of 2 teaspoons salt and remaining ingredients except pepper. Skewer the vent by inserting several toothpicks through the skin from side to side. Lace with string, tying the ends securely. Fasten both the forelegs and the hind legs with toothpicks and string. If there are any lean parts on the outside of the body, fasten a small piece of the surplus fat to this part with a toothpick. Sprinkle with remaining salt and the pepper. Put on side on greased rack in shallow baking pan and roast in preheated slow oven (325 degrees F.) for 45 minutes per pound.Turn when half done. Makes 6 to 8 servings.


or opossom, served again with sweet potatos..

1 opossum, cleaned & dressed 
3 green peppers, chopped 
salt to taste 
4 large sweet potatoes, peeled & sliced 
3 red peppers, chopped 

Combine salt, peppers and 4 cups of water in saucepan; simmer until liquid is reduced by half. Combine opossum with pan liquid and sweet potatoes in baking pan. Bake at 350 degrees F. for 1 hour or until opussum is tender, basting occasionally.


must dig out the skunk recipies...  

as no doubt some plank will accuse me of eating them too some day.. might as well have a decent recipe to hand for then!

N


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Dam Mason, your source is good!!
> 
> [Makes mental note to increase propaganda payments from £1 per week to £2 to opposing sides]
> 
> R


the laugh of it is Rory, as well you know, that we get more shit flung at us from the "secret exotics keeping brigade" than we do from the antis..

in fact, there are antis who i would rather have a cup of tea with, then some keepers..

not to mention the antis that ARE keepers i guess!

N


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Mason said:


> I heard Nery and Rory raise kinkajous to eat as food  I also heard they organise seal clubbing outings, and that Rory was solely responsible for 9/11
> 
> *shakes head*


LMAO I love it:lol2:


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## irwin (Jan 22, 2008)

*primates*

i just thought i would throw my pennies worth in is that if a private keeper does enough research in any exotic then why cant they keep them who says a zoo or a game park can keep that animal any better than a well researched responsible private keeper.It is always the primate keeper that is always at the top of the list and i know that people keep them in horrid conditions as with many other exotics but really in this day and age what can we do about it,yes the keeper can be responsible to whom they sell there primates to people who have means,knowledge and decent housing for there animals,but unfortunately this does not happen,some people are just in it to make money and totally disreguard that animals welfare.I myself do keep primates and i feel lucky in that i feel i can keep them in a sound environment with all the needs that they require,but really all exotic keepers should beable to do this from the smallest to the largest.I do not class them as a pet but part of my collection i just wish that people would look into at what a primates needs are and if u are unsure if you cannot meet them then dont buy.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

irwin said:


> i just thought i would throw my pennies worth in is that if a private keeper does enough research in any exotic then why cant they keep them who says a zoo or a game park can keep that animal any better than a well researched responsible private keeper.
> 
> It is always the primate keeper that is always at the top of the list and i know that people keep them in horrid conditions as with many other exotics but really in this day and age what can we do about it,yes the keeper can be responsible to whom they sell there primates to people who have means,knowledge and decent housing for there animals,but unfortunately this does not happen,some people are just in it to make money and totally disreguard that animals welfare.
> 
> I myself do keep primates and i feel lucky in that i feel i can keep them in a sound environment with all the needs that they require,but really all exotic keepers should beable to do this from the smallest to the largest.I do not class them as a pet but part of my collection i just wish that people would look into at what a primates needs are and if u are unsure if you cannot meet them then dont buy.


Hi Irwin, 

Thank God, an actual primate keeper at long last corresponding in the thread.

You are right, many keepers out there are just in it for the money, motivated by the green.

I agree, that if more potential primate keepers researched what they were planning to undertake it would make the primates life a hell of a lot more beneficial.

But what can we do about it?

Well, primate keepers do need to make their voices heard above the din of all the other sectors and demand that the codes of practice for primates are released and not tucked away until the new century. What can keepers of primates do about it?

They can start really keeping records of who they sell to. They must be motivated not by the financial gain, but more by the knowledge or lack of it that wanabee keepers display to them. They must keep in touch with those to whom they do sell to and make sure that everything is adhered to. But also to see if there are any problems.

Primate sellers must take full accountability for their actions throughout a sale, because if something does go wrong, and it takes a turn for the worst, then the buyer should be able to contact the seller immediately and try to secure a result.

Way too many sellers/keepers of primates just don't give a damn, they will sell to people who will keep below the standards that they may themselves keep in.

But the worst crime is that without cop's in action for the genuinely responsible keeper of primates, there are those keepers out there that do keep them in horrid conditions with the wrong ethics and morals, and that when they sell to a potential keeper, that keeper [novice] will think that those conditions the seller keeps them in is totally acceptable and continue to practice the same method, and as a direct result of that, the conditions for primates will continue to undermine all the dedication that responsible keepers maintain to.

As a seller l do try and ensure that everything is correct and above board by the screening, constant questions, back tracking questions, visits, constant communications and so on. 

But l feel that people like me are few and far between in the sales of primates, and no this is not attacking all primate keepers, but the minority which will undoubtedly create the fall of this species to be held in private hands.

Primate keepers need to do more. They need to take accountability for what they are doing.

It is not acceptable to sell a single primate to a buyer when the seller knows damn well that it will be kept in a solitary existance.

It is not acceptable to sell a primate into the hands of someone that does not have the right enclosures.

It is not acceptable for a primate seller to sell to someone who can not even spell the species of primate they are after, for that alone as comical as it is, should surely display that the research element has been totally ignored.

It is not acceptable to sell a primate that has not even been properly weaned from its mother. Simply because its cutsie or makes for a nice hand held photograph for a forum.

There are many things primate keepers can do now, sadly many of them do not.

For if the primate keeper/seller does not start to take a responsible attitude in the selling of primates, they will lose their ability to keep them in their collections. 

If more primate keepers do not start taking action, then l feel the way things are going, then l for one will start backing the opposition in their campaigns for the prohibition of keeping primates by the private individual. And why?

Because many keepers not just primate are expecting so very few to exact results for them and they do not wish to take action against those who oppose them. 

Because the way the opposition is with its dedication towards stopping the private keeping, l have to say l admire them in their efforts, but sadly l know longer disagree with the reasons in which they are trying to restrict the keeping.

What can be done Irwin?

Start shouting out, that you are proud to be a primate keeper and start demanding that actions from primate keepers are needed now and not just simply talking about it quietly.

But this is not aimed at you, for you have spoken, and for that l am thankful.

R


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

i was watching a show from the us where it was saying monkeys make great stand in kids that never grow up for people with empty nest syndrome and the people on there has monkey buggys nappys highchairs cots etc. i mean come on they cant be happy they belong in the trees


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think a lot of people humanise primates far too much and when you throw in the "ahhhh how cute" factor, you are always set to have problems.

I think the programmes mainly focus on the US and such like for the major baby monkey replacing a lost child kind of keepers.

I watched one once where the woman had a baby primate and it had it's own bedroom witha single bed, lamp etc - everything you would give a child.

When asked how it compared to her own son whom she lost at a young age her reply was like having a downs syndrome child because of the things she had to do extra for it!!!!


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## lenemily (Jul 7, 2008)

My 2 pennys worth 

I would love to own a primate more to the point i would love the time space and money to own one 
I would also like a tiger and a great white shark 

and a few meerkats lol 

I love primates i find them facinating i also love watching programmes on them yes they have the "awwe how cute" factor
BUT I Know AND have the sense that I personally do not have the time knowledge and room to keep one or two and to keep them safe and happy and grow up the way they should !!
And i think this is the problem people DONT think it is just a status they see it want it and get it simple as that most of the time with very little research and i personally believe primates as well as many other exotics are too easily obtainable to just joe bloggs 

Im not sure how but i think there should be some way of stopping exotics being just sold to whomever has the cash at the time 
I have heard great things about Rory and Nerys and how strongly they vet a interested buyer of one of their animals this should happen more 
then maybe animals wouldnt suffer as much as they are 

end rant .........lol

ps , anyone who has a great white for sale please pm me :2thumb:


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## scotshop (Apr 20, 2007)

well, 95% of the enquiries i get about primates are idiots that have seen marcel on friends or helper monkeys on the TV and think "cool. i want one. My mates down the pub will think i'm ace if i've got a monkey"

needless to say, i refuse A LOT of primate sales. They probably just go out and buy an iguana or a retic instead!


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## kierancbr600 (Oct 6, 2008)

hi i am a primate keeper in that i own a geoffry marmoset i admit that we bought it because my wife always wanted a cute monkey so when i heard of a local pet shop selling little monkeys we went to look and she fel in love and wanted one.

the vendor assured us they were easy to keep and would be perfectly happy to live alone as long as we gave it plenty to do so off we went he sold us a large parrott cage to home it in and sold us the suppliments required.

i kept it in the cage for a week or so then started to let it out around the living room which was great till it started scenting everything and sh*tting everywhere and peed on my 42" plasma wrecking it so i built an indoor enclosure using an old storage cupboard check the link at the bottom i have some vids on utube showing the enclosure which still need a lot of development .

during this time i started to research late i know but .... i stumbled upon a reptile shop close to me that also has a colony and he gave me some advice i realised then that the girl i was sold is a boy (see the vid) i am hopeing to get another female common from the guy who sold me one in the first place when i sell my yorkie pups in two weeks time.

i am trying to learn all the time asking advice from anyone that will volunteer it i have pm'd rory and glidergirl no response yet.

basically i know i am at fault for not researching properly and since joining this forum i am realising my mistakes and i am trying to do whta i can to ensure my animals are cared for and happy so any advice would be really great.

rfuk has and is showing me that i am seriously lacking but rather than get rid i would like to learn and progress to being a responsible keeper instead of a cute pet owner


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

you could also try pm'ing colin aka zooman as he has marmis too hun he may be able to help too


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

yes, sorry you have not been able to find any help but pm zooman. he will help you sort out suitable accommodation and care for the little fella.

good on you for keeping him and not putting him through moving :no1:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Awww Shucks....So your all saying if I get a chimp it won't be a cutsy monkey butler to entertain my friends:whistling2:
Seriously... Who the hell would want something that strong and quick locked in a room with them......:whip:
I love primates, but I don't want to try and become a soul mate with one... They are much better off with their own kind, away from me.... I'll just appreciate them from a distance....
I want a Tiger.... Can you do me one of them Rory....:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Awww Shucks....So your all saying if I get a chimp it won't be a cutsy monkey butler to entertain my friends:whistling2:
> Seriously... Who the hell would want something that strong and quick locked in a room with them......:whip:
> I love primates, but I don't want to try and become a soul mate with one... They are much better off with their own kind, away from me.... I'll just appreciate them from a distance....
> I want a Tiger.... Can you do me one of them Rory....:lol2:


 
yeah he could if you had the correct license an eclosure for it............

give the guy a break he admited he did wrong which is a big thing for anyone to do.............he is now tying to correct his mistakes and make things right for the animal he bought 

I think he has beat himself up enough over his mistake hence why he is asking for help........


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> yeah he could if you had the correct license an eclosure for it............
> 
> give the guy a break he admited he did wrong which is a big thing for anyone to do.............he is now tying to correct his mistakes and make things right for the animal he bought
> 
> I think he has beat himself up enough over his mistake hence why he is asking for help........


 Sorry for the miss representation... I know Rory... Or as his friends call him Jesus:whistling2: (sorry Rory)
I was extracting the urine in a drunken sort of way...
I know his motives are above reproach.....He's one of the good guys....


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> Sorry for the miss representation... I know Rory... Or as his friends call him Jesus:whistling2: (sorry Rory)
> I was extracting the urine in a drunken sort of way...
> I know his motives are above reproach.....He's one of the good guys....


 
LOL you should always becareful what you ask jesus for as ya never know you may wake up with a tiger on your bed one morning :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

The Tiger was a joke... Honest......
I don't want one of them either......
Sorry Jesus....


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

SW-morelia said:


> The Tiger was a joke... Honest......
> I don't want one of them either......
> Sorry Jesus....


 
LOL you better beg an pray your wish dont come true :lol2:

though you could teach it to dance an sing to i will survive like the bear on dr doolittle 2 you could earn a pretty bob from that :lol2:


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## kierancbr600 (Oct 6, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> you could also try pm'ing colin aka zooman as he has marmis too hun he may be able to help too


I added his msn and he tried to chat to me last night but i had left the computer running and i was in bed :lol2: but hope to get chatting to him sometime soon thanks guys


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi, 

Have responded to your pm.

R


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## Hamface (Nov 7, 2008)

I think there isn't a clear enough line for impulse buyers between 'ornamental' animals and animals intelligent enough to require much more understanding and interaction on a mental level.
I have a parrot and a tarantula, both are pretty 'exotic'. People are impressed by both of my pets, but one needs minimal attention whilst the other needs ALOT.
People seem to be putting more of a blanket over what animals can be treated like aquarium fish. 
I heard about this one person who boasted about how she used to have an African grey but then swapped it for a monkey... these kinda people piss me off


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