# IHS show is on



## Chris Newman

Dear all,

I am very pleased to inform you all that the IHS Breeders Meeting will be taking place this Sunday as scheduled. 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your support it is very much appreciated. I will post more information in due course but I want to keep it short and sweet for now as I want, no need a beer, or three.

Look forward to seeing as many of you as possible on Sunday.

Regards,
Chris




*Open Letter to*: 

*Michael Hart*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
cc *Jo Miller*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council 


*Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012*


Dear Michael,

Further to our correspondence of yesterday, as you are aware the case was heard today in the High Court of Justice Chancery Division, London this afternoon and I have just been informed the injunction has been granted. Documentation will be served upon yourselves shortly.

It is with deep regret that we had to resort to such action and we firmly believe that this was only necessary because of the intervention of third parties. Although a cost ordered has been awarded against Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust, the Federation of British Herpetologists will not seek to enforce this. 

The International Herpetological Society Breeder’s Meeting will now take place on Sunday the 17th of June as planned and I fully expect this to be an enjoyable day for all concerned. Clearly some fanatical members of Animal Rights organisation will be dissatisfied and it may be prudent that we discuss additional security arrangement in view of this.

Our solicitors have served formal notice on Doncaster Borough Council with regards to the legality of the event, and out of courtesy I have forwarded you a copy for your own information. 

There have also been completely unfounded allegations of animal welfare issues and in order to ensure that the highest standards are maintained several months ago we commissioned Tim Wass MBE to conduct an independent animal welfare inspection of this year’s event. Mr Wass was, until recently, the Chief Officer of the RSPCA and has an unrivalled reputation in his field, with an uncompromising approach to animal welfare standards. 

Yours sincerely,


Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists

15th June, 2012 @ 18:28


cc Knights Solicitors
Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster


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## batcode

congratulations and many thanks for all your time and effort chris and richerd well done hope see all on sunday again many thanks


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## LiamRatSnake

Great work and thank you. I hope this situation has proven that even this forum can, when it comes to it, stick together and support you, the IHS and the FBH and most importantly eachother.
Enjoy your beers.:notworthy:


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## Lil_nightmare

Have 5!! beers that is as long as everything is fine then we can all wait a little bit longer for the details :flrt:


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## andy007

Thank you Chris for taking the time to post and confirm what we all wanted to hear.
Perhaps now people will get behind you and support you and the team in the future: victory:


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## DaveM

Thank you


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## PureWelsh

*Hey*

Are the sales of live animals still aloud?


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## truncheon1973

it such good news to hear:2thumb:

if its about the legality of shows does this mean that if any other show got cancelled because toland and co told them it was illegal this proves its not?


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## tazzyasb

Great news


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## heather08

Very Well Done Chris
You have `all the beers you want pal, you deserve them`
:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## LahmiaRaven

Well done Chris and all at the IHS :2thumb: I'm so happy right now I could cry :lol2:


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## madaboutreptiles

Again well done to all who helped, I think you all deserve a beer or 3

:no1:


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## storm

fantastic work chris!! i know for one i will continue my support to the FBH and IHS!!!!

have several beers you deserve it!!


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## RachieValo

Well done Chris! And all the others  great outcome! :gasp::no1:


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## Purple_D

good work!


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## Fionab

this is the 4th thread i have said well done on and i will contiune saying it! the battle has been won tho the war has not but lets enjoy it for now. 

completely appreciate the Mr Wass touch! who ever thought of that deserves another beer; brilliant !


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## Nfh89

Great news 
Chris Newman; you are an amazing man!


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## Kerry97

Are sales allowed or not???


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## frogreapertattoo

*rep show*

Thanks for all your effort and work...it just go's to show that it is a worthwile sociaty for us all none members to sign up and support you
and help keep our beloved hobby safe ...this will be my first show so happy all has gone in our favour ..best regards Alistair Kennington.


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## April Taylor

Good work!


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## suffolk etb

Well done guys. you have done the entire reptile keeping community a great service.

whats more impressive is that unlike the '3rd parties' you done it with facts, honesty, integrity, and in a lawful way. By commishining an unbiased independant, and respected member of the animal welfare community to oversee the condition of the animals at the show, you have also put into place a provision against unfounded reports about animal welfare at the show, that could be fabricated by unscrupulous 3rd parties in the future.

A huge and heartfelt thanks from me and my friends in the reptile keeping world in suffolk.


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## MCEE

Kerry97 said:


> Are sales allowed or not???


Considering the whole reason hearing took place was because they tried to stop animal trading then I would deduct that the answer is YES.


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## Janine00

ReemGeckos said:


> Are the sales of live animals still aloud?


In so far as I am aware, as long as any sales are hobbyist excess breeding stock, then yes.



truncheon1973 said:


> it such good news to hear:2thumb:
> 
> if its about the legality of shows does this mean that if any other show got cancelled because toland and co told them it was illegal this proves its not?


IMHO it's not about the legality of shows, this is why I think it is really important to encourage people to keep the donations flowing. There really is a lot more work to be done before anyone can sit back on their laurels.... Please join a longstanding, well respected association as well as donating to or joining the FBH, as they have all put funds into fighting this.

One thing to remember is that if you are a member, you then have every right to ask for your views to be heard and considered. Far more powerful than just having a rant or a moan on a forum.... but it DOES cost money!


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## bridgey88

just like to say a huge thanks for all involved for this!! great job!!:no1:


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## Meko

The APA have just updated their Facebook page with



> ANIMAL DEALERS HAVE A COSTLY AND WASTED DAY IN COURT
> 
> Organisers of a proposed wildlife market in Doncaster had an expensive and wasted day in court today as the Judge decided that they can have a meeting at the Dome on Sunday 17th but reminded them that Council enforcement officers will be on site to gather evidence of any animal selling with a view to prosecution.
> 
> The organisers were hoping the Judge would give them a green light to sell animals by (as usual) trying to argue that their selling activities did not constitute carrying on a business of selling pets at a market – which is illegal. But instead the judge merely said that questions are raised over what constitutes carrying on a business, and Doncaster Council, as with other councils this year, have stated that ‘carrying on a business’ includes selling animals with a degree of repetition – making even small numbers of animal sales unlawful at the event. Accordingly, the Council will enforce the ‘no selling’ rule of law.
> 
> The prohibition on animal selling therefore remains, and the organisers are back where they were when the Dome managers offered them their event with a condition that no animal sales take place. The Judge’s ruling fully accommodates the Council’s stated intention to: send in enforcement teams to “monitor with a view to prosecuting breaches” and to issue letters to stallholders to ensure that they are properly informed of the ban on animal selling.


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## [email protected]

Meko said:


> The APA have just updated their Facebook page with


:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:
They wish :lol2:


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## Fionab

Janine00 said:


> In so far as I am aware, as long as any sales are hobbyist excess breeding stock, then yes.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO it's not about the legality of shows, this is why I think it is really important to encourage people to keep the donations flowing. There really is a lot more work to be done before anyone can sit back on their laurels.... Please join a longstanding, well respected association as well as donating to or joining the FBH, as they have all put funds into fighting this.
> 
> One thing to remember is that if you are a member, you then have every right to ask for your views to be heard and considered. Far more powerful than just having a rant or a moan on a forum.... but it DOES cost money!


only problem is there is no where to join the FBH


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## suffolk etb

Meko said:


> The APA have just updated their Facebook page with


so after everything they still come out with more lies.


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## storm

Meko said:


> The APA have just updated their Facebook page with


this no longer seems to be on their page? x


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## Lil' froggy

A huge thank you to all, who made the show possible against the fanatical odds.


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## Mynki

storm said:


> this no longer seems to be on their page? x


It is still on their page.


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## storm

i cant see it if it is... :hmm:

EDIT... ahhhh they blocked me.


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## Fionab

storm said:


> this no longer seems to be on their page? x


it is still there


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## SnakeyS

Welldone Chris. Thank you soo much  :no1::2thumb:


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## Ally

I just want to say a massive thank you for all your hard work on this! Enjoy those beers, they're very well earnt!


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## carlo69

Chris Newman said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I am very pleased to inform you all that the IHS Breeders Meeting will be taking place this Sunday as scheduled.
> 
> I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your support it is very much appreciated. I will post more information in due course but I want to keep it short and sweet for now as I want, no need a beer, or three.
> 
> Look forward to seeing as many of you as possible on Sunday.
> 
> Regards,
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Open Letter to*:
> 
> *Michael Hart*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
> cc *Jo Miller*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
> 
> 
> *Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012*
> 
> 
> Dear Michael,
> 
> Further to our correspondence of yesterday, as you are aware the case was heard today in the High Court of Justice Chancery Division, London this afternoon and I have just been informed the injunction has been granted. Documentation will be served upon yourselves shortly.
> 
> It is with deep regret that we had to resort to such action and we firmly believe that this was only necessary because of the intervention of third parties. Although a cost ordered has been awarded against Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust, the Federation of British Herpetologists will not seek to enforce this.
> 
> The International Herpetological Society Breeder’s Meeting will now take place on Sunday the 17th of June as planned and I fully expect this to be an enjoyable day for all concerned. Clearly some fanatical members of Animal Rights organisation will be dissatisfied and it may be prudent that we discuss additional security arrangement in view of this.
> 
> Our solicitors have served formal notice on Doncaster Borough Council with regards to the legality of the event, and out of courtesy I have forwarded you a copy for your own information.
> 
> There have also been completely unfounded allegations of animal welfare issues and in order to ensure that the highest standards are maintained several months ago we commissioned Tim Wass MBE to conduct an independent animal welfare inspection of this year’s event. Mr Wass was, until recently, the Chief Officer of the RSPCA and has an unrivalled reputation in his field, with an uncompromising approach to animal welfare standards.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> 
> Chris Newman
> Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
> 
> 15th June, 2012 @ 18:28
> 
> 
> cc Knights Solicitors
> Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
> Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
> Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
> Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster


Well done and thankyou for supporting our hobby and doing all the boring legwork that a lot of people don't realise goes on.
from the big fat ugly bloke in norfolk(your words chris:gasp
Carl (E.H.S)


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## GM123

Chris Newman said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I am very pleased to inform you all that the IHS Breeders Meeting will be taking place this Sunday as scheduled.
> 
> I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your support it is very much appreciated. I will post more information in due course but I want to keep it short and sweet for now as I want, no need a beer, or three.
> 
> Look forward to seeing as many of you as possible on Sunday.
> 
> Regards,
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Open Letter to*:
> 
> *Michael Hart*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
> cc *Jo Miller*, Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
> 
> 
> *Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012*
> 
> 
> Dear Michael,
> 
> Further to our correspondence of yesterday, as you are aware the case was heard today in the High Court of Justice Chancery Division, London this afternoon and I have just been informed the injunction has been granted. Documentation will be served upon yourselves shortly.
> 
> It is with deep regret that we had to resort to such action and we firmly believe that this was only necessary because of the intervention of third parties. Although a cost ordered has been awarded against Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust, the Federation of British Herpetologists will not seek to enforce this.
> 
> The International Herpetological Society Breeder’s Meeting will now take place on Sunday the 17th of June as planned and I fully expect this to be an enjoyable day for all concerned. Clearly some fanatical members of Animal Rights organisation will be dissatisfied and it may be prudent that we discuss additional security arrangement in view of this.
> 
> Our solicitors have served formal notice on Doncaster Borough Council with regards to the legality of the event, and out of courtesy I have forwarded you a copy for your own information.
> 
> There have also been completely unfounded allegations of animal welfare issues and in order to ensure that the highest standards are maintained several months ago we commissioned Tim Wass MBE to conduct an independent animal welfare inspection of this year’s event. Mr Wass was, until recently, the Chief Officer of the RSPCA and has an unrivalled reputation in his field, with an uncompromising approach to animal welfare standards.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> 
> Chris Newman
> Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
> 
> 15th June, 2012 @ 18:28
> 
> 
> cc Knights Solicitors
> Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
> Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
> Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
> Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster


ur a legend!!!!!


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## SiUK

Chris thank you for everything you have done with this, you go over and above to help our community the fact that you drove hours from where you live to come to a meeting with me in South Wales just shows the level of commitment you have to supporting the reptile hobby.


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## madaboutreptiles

carlo69 said:


> Well done and thankyou for supporting our hobby and doing all the boring legwork that a lot of people don't realise goes on.
> from the big fat ugly bloke in norfolk(your words chris:gasp
> Carl (E.H.S)


That proves Chris has perfect 20/20 vision 

from the little fat ugly bloke from Norfolk


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## Gar1on

Meko said:


> The APA have just updated their Facebook page with


Given the above, can we have some confirmation as to whether animal sales are allowed at the show?

The last I heard is that the show was not allowed to take place, and it seems you have made sure this is no longer going ahead. I have the highest respect for all the time and effort Chris et al. have put into this, however it would be great to get some clarification on the matter of selling animals as this was the issue a lot of us were concerned with and Chris' statement lacks clarity on the matter.

We don't want the APA to stop people coming with their statement, so an opposing statement should be released regarding the matter with full clarification on whether or not the sale of animals will be allowed.

Having said that, I would encourage everyone to attend regardless as a show of unity. I just don't want to be carrying a wad of cash with me if I need not!


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## SiUK

So I sarcastically asked on their page whether or not the council had banned the show and within seconds they removed the comment and blocked me


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## madaboutreptiles

SiUK said:


> So I sarcastically asked on their page whether or not the council had banned the show and within seconds they removed the comment and blocked me


Thats why I dont comment on there, I just go and keep an eye out


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## excession

Fantastic news. APA's lies have not gotten them what they wanted.

Sadly we are missing tomorrows show (stock issues!!) but wish we could be there.

I hope everyone has a great day.


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## Moshpitviper

So bloody proud of you Chris Newman and co. I will buy you a beer on sunday.


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## killswitchuk01

Seriously well doen guys, amazing result!! Now bring on the 4hr drive to get to this bloomin show.

APA...Eat s***


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## Sephiroth

picture hosting


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## PrincessStegosaurus

killswitchuk01 said:


> Seriously well doen guys, amazing result!! Now bring on the 4hr drive to get to this bloomin show.
> 
> APA...Eat s***


Don't forget my BRB! :Na_Na_Na_Na:hehe. Still trying to find a way up there, but am so far still stuck in London, bleh.


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## RepGuru

Superbly handled - a real diplomat for the cause!! Nice to see so many people standing firm on this. Well done again!!!!


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## lycanlord20

Sephiroth said:


> [URL=http://s17.postimage.org/w24zoqau7/apa.png]image[/url]
> picture hosting


did somebody hack the apa site? lol


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## DaveM

lycanlord20 said:


> did somebody hack the apa site? lol


I did wonder that too :lol:


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## Tombo46

Sephiroth said:


> [URL=http://s17.postimage.org/w24zoqau7/apa.png]image[/url]
> picture hosting


Absolutely Legendary haha.


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## storm

Sephiroth said:


> image
> picture hosting


interesting :hmm:its not there now... :lol2:

on another note, id be interested to hear what chris has to say about the APAs recent statement regarding no sales on the day...


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## Sephiroth

I think someone made a fake apa page to comment on the real one :lol2:

They're banning everyone and deleting posts very efficiently


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## Squirrel

As always Chris, Richard etc, we are indebted to you.


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## lycanlord20

Sephiroth said:


> I think someone made a fake apa page to comment on the real one :lol2:
> 
> They're banning everyone and deleting posts very efficiently


yeah they blocked and removed mine and my OH's comments very very quickly lol, I have only seen one other comment on there but know there must have been many many posted


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## dave hayden

Fionab said:


> only problem is there is no where to join the FBH


Join one of the FBH affiliated Society. The FBH is made up of the Societies


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## dave hayden

Well done Chris, as stated the show will go ahead as planned (including animal sales). We'll have to see what happens on the day with animal rights etc. It also cost a huge amount £10,000 plus. It would be good for as many people as possible (thousands would be good so feel free to post elsewhere) to go to the Doncaster council website and register a polite complaint. 
I was polite, expressing concern about the death threats, but pointing out that the British way is not to give in to terrorists, and that they were in breach of contract. They have now cost a voluntary group most of it's funds

Making a complaint


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## Gar1on

storm said:


> interesting :hmm:its not there now... :lol2:
> 
> on another note, id be interested to hear what chris has to say about the APAs recent statement regarding no sales on the day...


I remain curious about this also.


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## Rybee

So even though the show is still going ahead, it's still illegal to trade. How exactly, is that a win?


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## Gar1on

Rybee said:


> So even though the show is still going ahead, it's still illegal to trade. How exactly, is that a win?


That isn't necessarily the case. We are still awaiting clarification on the matter. Chris doesn't say explicitly either way and as yet no me has categorically refund the APA claims. Trusting what they say would be foolish however so it's impossible to be sure.


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## sazzle

Mine are already paid for :lol2: hopefully everything is BAU  x


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## Rybee

I'd like to read the judicial report on this case...


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## lycanlord20

Chris said everything was to go ahead as planned which to me says that sales are allowed, otherwise it would not be going ahead as planned would it lol


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## Rybee

lycanlord20 said:


> Chris said everything was to go ahead as planned which to me says that sales are allowed, otherwise it would not be going ahead as planned would it lol


So why has he, or anybody else, not clarified the legal ruling on this? Instead of a vague 'we won the show is still going ahead'.


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## bigd_1

see you all there and a big up you to the A:censor:censor:A


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## Gar1on

lycanlord20 said:


> Chris said everything was to go ahead as planned which to me says that sales are allowed, otherwise it would not be going ahead as planned would it lol


He said the breeders meeting will be going ahead as scheduled, not as planned. A subtle difference but it certainly doesn't offer the clarification we require - the issue was that sales were not allowed to take place, which the IHS / FBH refused to agree and as a result of their refusal DCLT said the show was no longer allowed to take place at the Dome.

The court case has ensured the meeting can go ahead as scheduled, but whether it can continue as planned (i.e with the sale animals) is unclear. This is especially true given the APA claims sales are not allowed to take place. While they are not to be trusted, their claims so far (for example the show getting cancelled etc) have been true and therefore it is not unreasonable to request some more information and clarification on the matter from the FBH and or the IHS.


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## Mynki

Gar1on said:


> He said the breeders meeting will be going ahead as scheduled, not as planned. A subtle difference but it certainly doesn't offer the clarification we require - the issue was that sales were not allowed to take place, which the IHS / FBH refused to agree and as a result of their refusal DCLT said the show was no longer allowed to take place at the Dome.
> 
> The court case has ensured the meeting can go ahead as scheduled, but whether it can continue as planned (i.e with the sale animals) is unclear. This is especially true given the APA claims sales are not allowed to take place. While they are not to be trusted, their claims so far (for example the show getting cancelled etc) have been true and therefore it is not unreasonable to request some more information and clarification on the matter from the FBH and or the IHS.


This is inaccurate. The DCLT and Doncaster council originally stated that the show could proceed but without the sale of live animals. Then the issue went to court.


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## andy007

Gar1on said:


> He said the breeders meeting will be going ahead as scheduled, not as planned.


He actually said "the IHS Breeders Meeting will be taking place this Sunday as scheduled."


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## Tarron

Gar1on said:


> He said the breeders meeting will be going ahead as scheduled, not as planned. A subtle difference but it certainly doesn't offer the clarification we require - the issue was that sales were not allowed to take place, which the IHS / FBH refused to agree and as a result of their refusal DCLT said the show was no longer allowed to take place at the Dome.
> 
> The court case has ensured the meeting can go ahead as scheduled, but whether it can continue as planned (i.e with the sale animals) is unclear. This is especially true given the APA claims sales are not allowed to take place. While they are not to be trusted, their claims so far (for example the show getting cancelled etc) have been true and therefore it is not unreasonable to request some more information and clarification on the matter from the FBH and or the IHS.


Actually, the show was always going ahead. The court case was due to thenm banning the sales. By winning the case, we won the right to sell at donny.

Check me out all technological, just tweeted the apa Haha


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## Kev132

sazzle said:


> Mine are already paid for :lol2: hopefully everything is BAU  x


you ALWAYS pre buy everything, and then come to my table wishing you hadnt.... when will you learn :lol2:


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## Gar1on

Mynki said:


> This is inaccurate. The DCLT and Doncaster council originally stated that the show could proceed but without the sale of live animals. Then the issue went to court.





Tarron said:


> Actually, the show was always going ahead. The court case was due to thenm banning the sales. By winning the case, we won the right to sell at donny.
> 
> Check me out all technological, just tweeted the apa Haha


I was under the impression, from the copies of the eaters posted by Chris, that the DCLT were not letting it go ahead on the basis the FBH refused to stop sales at the show - 



> Further to the position outlined in the letter by the International Herpetological Society, it is with regret that I must inform you that Doncaster Culture Leisure Trust will not allow the event to take place at The Dome.
> This decision is in relation to the event scheduled on Sunday 17th June 2012.


Am I missing something? Apologies if I am.



andy007 said:


> He actually said "the IHS Breeders Meeting will be taking place this Sunday as scheduled.


Correct, but my point remains. A rather trivial response...


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## Mynki

Gar1on said:


> I was under the impression, from the copies of the eaters posted by Chris, that the DCLT were not letting it go ahead on the basis the FBH refused to stop sales at the show -
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something? Apologies if I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, but my point remains. A rather trivial response...


Read the time and date stamp of the first post in this thread.


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## Gar1on

Mynki said:


> Read the time and date stamp of the first post in this thread.


Yes... The show is now on, but originally it had been cancelled as the IHS refused to disallow sales at the show. This cancellation prompted the court case and now it is going ahead. Whether the sale of animals is allowed has not yet been clarified however, which is the point I have been making all along that you said was false? Am I missing something?

What I am saying is originally the show was completely cancelled. Which you disagreed to. The above quote says otherwise.


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## Tarron

Gar1on said:


> I was under the impression, from the copies of the eaters posted by Chris, that the DCLT were not letting it go ahead on the basis the FBH refused to stop sales at the show -
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something? Apologies if I am.
> I believe that response was In linee to chris' refusal to back down, they wanted us to like it or lump It. The court case was most certainly to do with sales, chris would not let It be any other way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, but my point remains. A rather trivial response...


Reply in text.


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## storm

To be honest, im very very pleased that the show is going ahead as normal  i think that the best thing we can all do is go, enjoy the day and keep showing our support by joining/donating to the FBH and IHS.

So, lets let chris have his well deserved beer... while we take a moment to think about what has happened today, and what we can all learn from it. 

Be thoughtful about what you say, silly or rude comments will not help. Remember chris may have won this war, but the battle has only just begun....


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## Gar1on

Tarron said:


> Reply in text.


That lacks the clarity I am looking for. You are right it was the response to the refusal to disallow sales, and now we know it is going ahead despite the fact it was originally cancelled. However, there is no clarification on whether sales can take place and given what the APA are saying it would be prudent to clarify the matter, in my opinion.


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## Tarron

Gar1on said:


> That lacks the clarity I am looking for. You are right it was the response to the refusal to disallow sales, and now we know it is going ahead despite the fact it was originally cancelled. However, there is no clarification on whether sales can take place and given what the APA are saying it would be prudent to clarify the matter, in my opinion.


Ah, the APA, those denizens of truth.

They're talking whack mate. I agree clarification would help, but I think we are safe.


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## Khonsu

Haven't read all this post but;

Firstly big thanks to Chris & all others at FBH/IHS, as some have said this will not stop the APA, we need to all be more vigilant & pro active for the future.

Secondly Richard from IHS phoned me earlier this evening as he did to all table holders & clearly told me business as usual so i look forward to selliong you all my babies.


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## andy007

Aimo said:


> Haven't read all this post but;
> 
> Firstly big thanks to Chris & all others at FBH/IHS, as some have said this will not stop the APA, we need to all be more vigilant & pro active for the future.
> 
> Secondly Richard from IHS phoned me earlier this evening as he did to all table holders & clearly told me business as usual so i look forward to selliong you all my babies.


At last:2thumb: Some clarification, thank you Aimo: victory:


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## Meko

Gar1on said:


> That lacks the clarity I am looking for. You are right it was the response to the refusal to disallow sales, and now we know it is going ahead despite the fact it was originally cancelled. However, there is no clarification on whether sales can take place .


The lack of clarification that it's going ahead with no sales, is clarification that sales can take place. If there were restrictions in place, they'd have been mentioned so breeders with tables booked, wouldn't waste time turning up. 
So it'll be full steam ahead.


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## Gar1on

Tarron said:


> Ah, the APA, those denizens of truth.
> 
> They're talking whack mate. I agree clarification would help, but I think we are safe.


They were right about the fact they had originally stopped sales, so while I don't like to admit it, there is sometimes truth in their claims and it would be foolish to completely discredit everything your enemy says. Friends close and enemies closer, as they say.



Meko said:


> The lack of clarification that it's going ahead with no sales, is clarification that sales can take place. If there were restrictions in place, they'd have been mentioned so breeders with tables booked, wouldn't waste time turning up.
> So it'll be full steam ahead.


Fair point, I concede.


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## em_40

Gar1on said:


> He said the breeders meeting will be going ahead as scheduled, not as planned. A subtle difference but it certainly doesn't offer the clarification we require - the issue was that sales were not allowed to take place, which the IHS / FBH refused to agree and as a result of their refusal DCLT said the show was no longer allowed to take place at the Dome.
> 
> The court case has ensured the meeting can go ahead as scheduled, but whether it can continue as planned (i.e with the sale animals) is unclear. This is especially true given the APA claims sales are not allowed to take place. While they are not to be trusted, their claims so far (for example the show getting cancelled etc) have been true and therefore it is not unreasonable to request some more information and clarification on the matter from the FBH and or the IHS.


The International Herpetological Society Breeder’s Meeting will now take place on Sunday the 17th of June as planned and I fully expect this to be an enjoyable day for all concerned. Clearly some fanatical members of Animal Rights organisation will be dissatisfied and it may be prudent that we discuss additional security arrangement in view of this.


As planned, is what is said.

Though the APA were right last time, I hope this time they are just lying.

Not that I can get to the show anyway because it's too far away, but I'm glad they weren't able to shut it down.


:no1: Thankyou to Chris Newman


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## Rick Shaw

*@ Gar1on*

For the benefit of Gar1on. 

We appreciate that you want clarification on sales of animals. 
However, in Chris's original post he stated it was a short post with more details to follow. 

Give the bloke a chance to have a beer and chill out for a couple of hours, travelling to London and back as well as sitting in court would be enough for anybody. 

He said more details would follow and by all accounts he has delivered on everything else he has posted in the last 48 hrs.


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## Gar1on

Rick Shaw said:


> For the benefit of Gar1on.
> 
> We appreciate that you want clarification on sales of animals.
> However, in Chris's original post he stated it was a short post with more details to follow.
> 
> Give the bloke a chance to have a beer and chill out for a couple of hours, travelling to London and back as well as sitting in court would be enough for anybody.
> 
> He said more details would follow and by all accounts he has delivered on everything else he has posted in the last 48 hrs.


Quite, and I wasn't disputing that further details would follow and I completely respect and appreciate everything Chris et al. do for the hobby. I just wanted some information and with other issues there have been some other informed members, aside from Chris. After being bombarded with accusations I was so completely mistaken I felt it necessary to make clear the point I was making. Once again it seems people thinking am criticising the work Chris has done across the past couple of days and this is far from the case.


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## bigd_1

Rick Shaw said:


> For the benefit of Gar1on.
> 
> We appreciate that you want clarification on sales of animals.
> However, in Chris's original post he stated it was a short post with more details to follow.
> 
> Give the bloke a chance to have a beer and chill out for a couple of hours, travelling to London and back as well as sitting in court would be enough for anybody.
> 
> He said more details would follow and by all accounts he has delivered on everything else he has posted in the last 48 hrs.


like to say a big thx to chris for all he has don for the reptile trade and have sum beers think you will need 1 or 2 :notworthy:


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## Meko

Gar1on said:


> Quite, and I wasn't disputing that further details would follow and I completely respect and appreciate everything Chris et al. do for the hobby. I just wanted some information and with other issues there have been some other informed members, aside from Chris. After being bombarded with accusations I was so completely mistaken I felt it necessary to make clear the point I was making. Once again it seems people thinking am criticising the work Chris has done across the past couple of days and this is far from the case.



I know what you mean though. You have to read between the lines to see what was being said; as Chris just did a quick update. So when you read that followed by the APA statement, you just need it all clarifying.


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## lycanlord20

Aimo said:


> Secondly Richard from IHS phoned me earlier this evening as he did to all table holders & clearly told me business as usual so i look forward to selliong you all my babies.


 so yea business as usual


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## rachaels royal

thanks to chris and everyone who helped the show to go on.you deserve a few beers well done and thanks. see you sunday.


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## yellow_python

Super job to Chris and the Team.

And to those though said the shows are dead and accept it :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## PureWelsh

*hey.*

So does anyone know if there is a ban of sales of live animals?

Thanks :2thumb:


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## bigd_1

ReemGeckos said:


> So does anyone know if there is a ban of sales of live animals?
> 
> Thanks :2thumb:


 we can sell live animals at the show :2thumb:


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## PureWelsh

*hey.*



bigd_1 said:


> we can sell live animals at the show :2thumb:


Is that clarification from chris or are we assuming we are aloud?


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## Kev132

the phone call from Richard stated that everything was going ahead as normal, Normal would mean sales are allowed, so yes


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## PhillyDee

Anyway of finding out which businesses are attending with tables?


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## dragons den exotics

*A Video from APA website*

Lets try to make sure all our Reptile welfare comes 1st (as usual) to prevent giving the APA any ammunition like on this vid...

Stafford Bird Market - YouTube


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## UndergrowthSupplies

dragons den exotics said:


> Lets try to make sure all our Reptile welfare comes 1st (as usual) to prevent giving the APA any ammunition like on this vid...
> 
> Stafford Bird Market - YouTube




There are only a few problems on that video. The majority i don't see a problem with.

As long as there are no injured or ill animals for sale, everything has access to heat (where required) and clean water (again, where required) and everything is kept clean then there should be no problem. Maybe if everybody writes a small note to say that they are currently only in containers/housing suitable for easy transportation or display purposes and that they need to be moved on to larger and more suitable accommodation then i don't know where any problems should arise - I know this is common sense for us all on here, but we have to remember there are some idiots out there in the world


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## ginna

I have never been so happy to read a thread in my life ... i take my hat off to you i really do 

i thought i would post it that big to show my enthusiasm


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## e.francis

Hi Chris,
I hope you don't mind but I've posted this info on my Face book page and some reptile pages. I just thought that as many people as possible need to know the show is going ahead.
Thanks again for all your hard work insuring the show can go ahead. It is greatly appreciated by many!

:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## Elmodfz

It would be interesting to read the actual full report from the court case, just because I'm curious and a bit nosey lol.

Good to see the show will go on though  Not that I will be there but a lot of people had a fair amount to lose if it didn't go ahead.


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