# Leaf litter guys, let's chat:)



## DragonKhaleesi (Nov 6, 2016)

Okay so I want to start a friendly little discussion here guys, so no bickering, i'm just looking for advice and opinions on the subject so cheers in advance to anyone who partakes : victory::2thumb:

Okay so after Christmas i'll be setting up my first 2 bio active vivs and I have it all planned to the smallest details because i'm fidgety and can't wait, I just want to start Buuuuut here is a curious topic I was thinking about...

Now I'm fully aware of the dangers of taking leaves from the outdoors but I refuse to go online and pay for dead leaves at extortionate prices online for no good reason:') So I'm going to collect leaves, the most common seeming to be oak which I can get in the woods (it is maintained, but the coucil does not use pesticides in it), and another common one people use which is camellia, from my garden. But I need lots and lots and lots of leaves! So I need options!
We all know it's rule of thumb - no soft woods, hardwoods are ussualy okay. So I assume it's the same for leaves. So far, stuff i've taken to test out has gone through this thought process in my head:

Wash all several times in lots of cold water in my bath tub:')
Waxy? Cook it on low heat in oven for ageeees or boil.
Fungus or other nasties? Throw it out.
Sappy? Excessively so, throw it out. Small amount, bake the hell out of it and let it air dry for a week or so.
Thin? Maybe iron/cook for short while, mostly just freeze and use.
Thick? Bake or boil a little and freeze the rest of the nasties away.
Kinda fuzzy? Either throw it out or bake to death
Still green? Any of above processes, but mostly lots of very patient air drying in a box with air circulation but very dry and clean.

So, so far the only leaf I've messed about with as far as experimenting is a Sycamore. Why doesn't anyone use sycamore leaves??? No seeds, the seeds are little nasties, toxic to horses and rabbits. I'm sure a reptiles tum wouldn't appreciate it either. But again, both human, horses and rabbits can eat the leaves no problem, as far as I've ever heard the bark, wood and leaves are completely harmless, it's a hard wood and a member of the maple family, the wood is often recommended (after thorough sterilizing) as a perch in reptile vivs, super easy to access mostly anywhere, not loved my landscapers or gardeners so no one minds you picking up leaf litter or pulling a few branches worth of leaves down and they have a nice variety of tiny little leaves and pretty huge ones. It's just so handy and with excessive cleaning and sterilizing, I see no issue What do you guys think? I've not yet used it in a habitat with any of my reptiles.

These are the other common British trees I know of and see fairly regularly that are non-toxic hardwoods and as far as i'm aware I've never seen them on a 'toxic' list for reptiles, or any other animals. (Exclude berries/flowers/seeds, I'm only looking into leaf litter and excluding wood, bark and fruits/seeds in this case):

Birch
Maple
Rowan
Hawthorn
Ash
Hazel
Beech
Elm
Sycamore
Horse chestnut

Can anyone else see any issues with the leaves of these for bio active soil/leaf litter use? I don't see much problem with it after proper sterilization.

Oh and final question, what is everyone else's opinion on thoroughly sterilizing wood and leaves? I know a lot of people think it's paranoia kicking in, excessive, unnecessary and silly. I personally don't think excessive washing and cleaning and sterilizing is always necessary, but in my opinion the cost of using up more of my time cleaning, baking, boiling and freezing a bunch of leaves like a crazy woman just to be sure is far less than the cost of my reptiles vet bills, and more importantly, their health and happiness.
Plus, I'm broke, man :lol2: A lot of people say there is actually helpful bacteria and what not as well as bad stuff on the leaves, so over doing the sterilizing is a shame, but again in my opinion, if I get my bio active set up working well, I shouldn't need it at all anyway I'd rather make sure all the nasties were well dead and gone.

Anyway, I'm totally open to opinions and ideas so go nuts guys, just try not to argue haha I know things can get a little heated when we all disagree. I look forward to hearing everyone's points! Cheers guys :cheers: :2thumb:


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

DragonKhaleesi said:


> Okay so I want to start a friendly little discussion here guys, so no bickering, i'm just looking for advice and opinions on the subject so cheers in advance to anyone who partakes : victory::2thumb:
> 
> Okay so after Christmas i'll be setting up my first 2 bio active vivs and I have it all planned to the smallest details because i'm fidgety and can't wait, I just want to start Buuuuut here is a curious topic I was thinking about...
> 
> ...


Ask a mod to move this to the Habitat section. You'll get some replies there.


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## ben632664 (Dec 27, 2006)

That sounds like a lot of aggravation! I just collect leaves, microwave them and then put them in my viv. Job done.


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## DragonKhaleesi (Nov 6, 2016)

*Thanks*



Basin79 said:


> Ask a mod to move this to the Habitat section. You'll get some replies there.


Cheers, she's already done it for me without asking Thankyou anyway :2thumb:


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## DragonKhaleesi (Nov 6, 2016)

ben632664 said:


> That sounds like a lot of aggravation! I just collect leaves, microwave them and then put them in my viv. Job done.


That's fair enough I guess i'm just being overly cautious. I'm assuming you've never really had any issues with that then?

Do you get certain leaves? Or just whatever is lying around? Cheers


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## MSID (May 13, 2010)

Hello
I use oak leaves, they have the advantage of taking longer to break down than most others I have tried. If I was picking up from the ground I would steralise by boiling, but my favourite option is to look for a tree that retains it leaves once brown. You find some oaks do this. I then pick them off the branches, as we don't get tree dwelling amphibians in the UK I take the view that the risk of infection must be quite low, so give them a wash in hot water and dry at room temp. I have done this for a few years with no problems.
Not saying you couldn't introduce disease this way, but it must be a low risk compared to picking them from the ground.


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

I use leaf litter in quite a few of my vivs and have dried and sterilized (baked and frozen) in the past as well as putting them in straight from the woods. Never had any problems with either. Straight from the ground will also provide you with a good selection of woodlice, millipedes, springtails etc, many of which will survive and thrive even in tropical vivs, so starting off your bio-active set up quite nicely. Most diseases and parasites are fairly species specific and given the lack of common reptile species in this country I figure the chance of cross infection is pretty slim. Pesticides and toxic species are obviously a different matter, so you need to be selective on what you collect, and where from, but sounds like you have got that pretty much covered.


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