# Waterproof viv



## Andrew1981 (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi all

I'm looking for the low voc water based varnish to protect my vivexotic cex55.*Links please*.Don't want yacht varnish stink for ages  

Also find this Organic varnish with 0% VOCs :gasp: 
http://www.ecosorganicpaints.co.uk/store/products-for-wood/clear-varnish/wood-varnish-1-litre-satin/gloss/matt-1-litre/prod_39.html. Anyone heard or used?


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

What species are you wanting to keep in the enclosure? Wood may not be the best option...

there is no absolute guaranteed way of waterproofing a wooden vivarium, i've been building them for 15 years, and I've tried every method available!

There are options which can increase the life-span of a wooden viv significantly, but it WILL fail eventually; that said, what species do you want to keep in the vivarium? that will determine how you should go about waterproofing it...

For any creature which doesnt have claws, or requires medium-low humidity, 30-50% - Zero/Low VOC Yacht Varnish will do the job, then use Silicone HA6 Aquarium Safe to seal the edges/joins/screws afterwards.

For any creature that doesnt have big claws and requires medium humidity, 40-60%, Polyurthane sealant (Zero VOC) will work well, and then silicone again for the edges/joins

For creatures with big strong claws, you will need something like the 3M Fiber Glass resign - unfortunetly this is not Zero or Low VOC, the enclosure must be sealed at least 8 weeks before you think about adding animals, and then only when the smell has gone - leave the heating on in the enclosure at full power, with the doors open, in a well ventilated place (eg a Garage, Shed, Conservatory with windows and doors open - this is the best method, and will last at least 10 years even with very high humidity, if done properly (some people have had them sucessfully for 15+)

Very important to note than fibre glass resin is highly toxic until it has COMPLETLY cured and out-gassed, it should not smell at all, and may take quite a long time to reach that point, 2-3months perhaps


Another option is to seal the top half of the viv with Polyurthane, and the bottom half with a double Pond Liner - fine for smaller animals, useless for monitors and big iguanas, but for smaller animals it will probive an excellent water proof base

another option is to seal the wood up with one of the mentioned sealants above, and then use Plastic (or glass) to build an inner wall, Twin-Wall Polycarbonate is the cheapest option - but even that will not last forever, espcially with animals that dig with their claws


The simplest method, is to use laminated Melamine to build, and then seal the joins/edges/screws etc with HA6 Silicone, but that also has its issues

for snakes, Zero or Low VOC Varnish and Silicone is probably all that you need, Polyurthane Sealant for higher humidities (upto 60-70&)

For very high humidity species, 70-90%, Plastic Vivariums are by far the best option - some are not suitable for high powered Ceramic and Light heaters however, but you can get radient heat mats, radiant panels and UTH heat mats which will do fine


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## Paul_MTS (Mar 23, 2008)

Wow! Fantastic information CloudForest, thanks very much.

Sorry to Hi-Jak Andrew.

I'm about to buy a Viva Arboreal for my bredl python, so not particularly high humidity but would still like to protect the viv as best as possible to ensure it lasts.

I've just read that all ends on the panels are covered with melamine now which is a bonus.

Do you think it will still be worth while coating the panels with varnish or will just building with silicon in the joints be good enough?

I use Soudal Silirub AQ for building glass tanks, not sure how well this adhere's to wood though?

I'd be tempted to build a glass tray for the bottom even if just for easier cleaning.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

if its Melamine, then you should be fine with just HA6 aquarium safe silicone on all the joints, screws etc, apply it in a nice thick bead, then use your finger to smooth it off and create a good seal...do this fairly quickly and in one single motion per edge so it not only looks good, but produces a good seal; it is a bit of an irritant, you may want to use gloves, or even a soft slightly damp cloth

No idea what Silirub AQ is i'm afraid, not a brand i'm familiar with, but standard HA6 silicone is usually all you need, and pretty cheap

a glass bottom is definitely helpful for cleaning, but melamine isn't difficult to clean anyways tbh, i'm not sure it will add value, although it will definitely be slightly easier to clean (assuming your Bredl doesn't smear the poop all over the enclosure, as my carpets do occasionally haha)...that said, I've never kept a Bredl, not sure how messy they are, my Carpets arnt particularly messy, they are in Melamine enclosures sealed with silicone and I've not had any issues so far


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## Paul_MTS (Mar 23, 2008)

Soudal Silirub is just another aquarium safe silicon although having check both manufactures websites Soudal is only suitable for glass where as Bond-It's HA6 suggests being suitable for various materials including wood!

She does have a habit of crapping in the corner making it hard to clean up on a wooden base.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Paul_MTS said:


> Soudal Silirub is just another aquarium safe silicon although having check both manufactures websites Soudal is only suitable for glass where as Bond-It's HA6 suggests being suitable for various materials including wood!
> 
> She does have a habit of crapping in the corner making it hard to clean up on a wooden base.


ah, unlucky there then, my BCI does the same! You might consider pond liner, you can find it fairly cheap on ebay per meter, put it in after silicone has cured, then fill with substrate, its easy enough to clean down  ...your bredl might decide to go under the pond liner to poop of course lol

I went a bit nuts in my last viv, and use 8 tubes of silicone to seal up the base of a 4x2x2, was a messy job...and I bet it leaks within 5 years haha but for now, it seems to be doing the job!


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

If you are prepared to spend the money Trocoya MDF is available. seal the joints with HA6 and you could use it to keep fish in, amazing stuff, completely water submersible.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Wingnut2711 said:


> If you are prepared to spend the money Trocoya MDF is available. seal the joints with HA6 and you could use it to keep fish in, amazing stuff, completely water submersible.


the only thing I know about MDF is its toxicity, esp in contact with heat (in particular when burning, its banned in UK buildings for that reason)....is it the same with Trocoya MDF?


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> the only thing I know about MDF is its toxicity, esp in contact with heat (in particular when burning, its banned in UK buildings for that reason)....is it the same with Trocoya MDF?


Sorry typo by me, it's Tricoya. As far as I know there is no ban on its use in the UK for any reason because of toxicity, rather its structure and weakness if it becomes wet. I know the US have banned it but is everywhere in the UK, unfortunately I have had the pleasure of using tonnes and tonnes of the stuff. 

From what I understand it is engineered by altering an ester or acetyl group inside the wood to trick it into thinking its plastic. I have had a piece soaking for over a year and it shows no degradation at all. I couldn't honestly say hand on heart it doesn't release anything but doubt any adhesives would be any worse than any contained in melamine chip board.

I have personally kept various snakes & lizards in vivs I have made from standard MDF and veneered MDFs and as far as I am aware there has been no issues. Seems to me a perfect ( if expensive) material to use for heat insulation and for it being waterproof. They also offer a 50year guarantee.

Medite Tricoya homepage | Medite Tricoya

If I can find enough laying around at work I may make a small mock up and see how it acts in a warm/humid environment, my guess is it wouldn't batter an eyelid.

Marc.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

I used to use MDF aswell for most things, including vivs years ago, it was cheap and easy to use, but not any more

hmm maybe i have the UK/US ban mixed up - the dust from MDF is very toxic, of that i'm pretty certain... was a long time ago that I read about it (10 years maybe?) and stopped using it...time to read up on it again i guess, maybe they changed the resins or something


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## Wingnut2711 (Feb 16, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> I used to use MDF aswell for most things, including vivs years ago, it was cheap and easy to use, but not any more
> 
> hmm maybe i have the UK/US ban mixed up - the dust from MDF is very toxic, of that i'm pretty certain... was a long time ago that I read about it (10 years maybe?) and stopped using it...time to read up on it again i guess, maybe they changed the resins or something


I Believe the adehsives used are water based (not certain though), but you're right about the dust being dangerous, although it is the particle size when cut rather than a toxin. Still potentially nasty though, masks are a must. I will request some data sheets from the manufacturers and find out.


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