# Buyer beware...not happy!



## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Well it seems that I have a little problem. We (Lou and I) recently bought some animals off of a seller on here, and unusually for us decided to have them TNT'd to us (delivery was Lou's place of work). We paid via Paypal and the animals were dispatched to us. They arrived when expected at Lou's place of work, but when opened it was discovered that all the animals had died in transit. 

Lou immediately contacted the seller to inform them and was asked to supply a photograph of them and that a refund or replacement was available. A photograph was taken that evening and sent almost immedately.
She also received various pm's from this person (all saved still) apologising for the loss and confirming that a refund had been made via Paypal, and that the reason they died in transit was purely their fault.

Anybody remember the thread I started sbout Paypal refunds? Well it was to do with this case. I received nothing in the form of a refund, despite asking several times via PM on here (all saved including answers). Two days later (17th of this month) I received a payment from them, not a refund, for the said amount minus my Paypal fees. Bugger it I thought, i'll swallow that, I'm not that hard up.
Well today the payment has been 'held' as it is being investigated as an unauthorised payment. 

The seller will know who they are, we still have the animals in question in the freezer, I still have a copy, and other pics of the dead animals I took as soon as I got home from work and we still have all the PM's we sent and received concerning this. If this is not resolved to my satisfaction I will be making this public.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

nightmare..

i have considered once TNT and decided against it.. im sorry for your loss... do you have any idea WHY the animals died ( lack of water etc)


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

poor animals
Sorry to hear this, hope you get it all sorted out and the seller sees you right.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

sparkle said:


> nightmare..
> 
> i have considered once TNT and decided against it.. im sorry for your loss... do you have any idea WHY the animals died ( lack of water etc)


Yes Sparkle it wasn't very pleasant, Lou was very cut up over them dying and we won't be TNT'ing anything we buy again.

And yes, we have the reason they died from the seller themselves, they admitted their mistake via Pm to Loulou.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

what was the mistake 

sounds awful...

im so sorry this happened...


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

Sorry for your loss . I wont use TNT again either. I bought 3 reptiles from someone on here aswell and have been back and forth to the vets with one of them and funnily enough im still waiting on my refund aswell.:bash:


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

im sorry for your loss


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

nightmare ..hope it gets sorted


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2006)

I wont say the mistake just yet as it will let you all know who it is, we are giving this person a chance to come forward and sort out the problem and if all is resolved with a good explanation (and our refund) we will leave it at that, mistakes do happen and I am hoping this is just one of them, the person in question was polite and seemed upset at the loss of the animals so we shall see


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## kolo (Aug 20, 2007)

Sorry about your loss, that's so sad poor things


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

well i dont know who this person is, but i will say it almost certainly wont be tnts fault that the animal died.
for instance, as long as the snakes are healthy before they go, well simply they will not die.
if people packed like i do then there is no way a snake will die unless its been tampered with, which is pretty obvious.
so i would therefor say its almost certainly the fault of the sender for either A, bad packing, or B, not a healthy animal or C, combo of the two.


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2006)

Yes sorry Nige I should of said that myself, at no point is TNT to blame for this it was not the fault of the delivery company


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

Can you pm me the mistake made? That way I can avoid it myself (never sent an animal via TNT, not sure if I would)


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

loulou said:


> at no point is TNT to blame for this it was not the fault of the delivery company


I dont think tnt were the problem with mine either :-x


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

i might do a thread at some point on how i pack, do it from scratch.. not everyone does it the same, but my way is pretty solid and its the only way they would accept the account.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> i might do a thread at some point on how i pack, do it from scratch.. not everyone does it the same, but my way is pretty solid and its the only way they would accept the account.


i think thats a good idea!!!!


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

its not a cheap way of doing it, comes to about 40 quid... but i will put all that in so people can see the exact costs.
i know some people can do it cheaper, but they have better accounts than me and send out more i imagine.. i have tried to get it lowered recently but they are not interested


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

And a bump for the morning crew, we're off to Shropshire Exotics for the day so won't be able to respond. 
To those people that have PM'd me, I won't be replying with the sellers name via PM, I'd like to think this is an honest mistake, and will give the chance for the seller to redeem themselves. If I come home later to find they have been logged on and have not responded to my PM on here then I may well post all the details tomorrow.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> its not a cheap way of doing it, comes to about 40 quid... but i will put all that in so people can see the exact costs.
> i know some people can do it cheaper, but they have better accounts than me and send out more i imagine.. i have tried to get it lowered recently but they are not interested


I think it'd be a good thing to post. I get a lot of animals from wholesalers and the packaging is actually pretty crap, cardboard box with holes in, polybox in cardbox box.. that's it (and I should note I still have only ever had 1 casualty and it was a frog which are never guaranteed.. over the 100s of animals I have accepted this year... so it's not that hard to package it). Yours is probably the most sturdiest packaging i've ever seen.. they could drop a viv on top of it and the animals wouldn't notice


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2007)

Fixx said:


> And a bump for the morning crew, we're off to Shropshire Exotics for the day so won't be able to respond.
> To those people that have PM'd me, I won't be replying with the sellers name via PM, I'd like to think this is an honest mistake, and will give the chance for the seller to redeem themselves. If I come home later to find they have been logged on and have not responded to my PM on here then I may well post all the details tomorrow.


firstly sorry for your loss 

but i must say what a decent person you seem, to do this the correct way 
i hope you get the full refund you are entitled to ..

seller sort this out now ..

and Nigel thats a cracking idea!!!


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## Torres13 (Aug 30, 2007)

sorry to hear that! What where the actual animals?


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## sahunk (Apr 1, 2007)

im so sorry for your loss and you are doing all the right things!!


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Thanks for clarifying it wasnt TNT.... although i do know of some occasions where TNT through no fault of their own have been in an accident etc... and not delivered on time... rare but it does happen... this also happens with any courrier so tnt are no different.. ive only ever heard of ONE other occasion where they lost a package with reptiles contained in it... but thats the single onlt time ive heard of any issue other than vehicle brekdown or accident.

I really hope you get some closure on al this as it sounds very distressing... and I hope the seller never ever makes the same mistake again... they should really be doing everyhting to resolve this in money terms instead of causing further distress to you


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## melanie (Jan 18, 2007)

Hi,
I would also like to agree with Nige, we have never had a problem with tnt but we do pack a specific way using a brand new poly box and brand new double walled cardboard box lots of paper to make sure nothing moves inside, heat pad etc it's not cheap to do this but i have peace of mind, I have never had a problem with tnt and i make sure the box is labled correctly and the driver knows not to stack the box with plently of stickers saying so, however i have personally had things sent to me in just a poly box all crushed in at the top not outer box, a snake delivered to me (not by nige) by a shop in a second hand poly box in a second hand well used cardboard box tht was way bigger than the poly and it freely moved in the cardboard box and the snake in a sandwich tub with nothing else and so moved and slid around.. i hate to think of the journey it had, so you see the way you pack is very important and like nige i would be happy to do a step by step way to pack a gecko with pics as well for other peeps to see if it helps.
I hope you get it sorted.


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## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

i think a packing instruction guide would be a great thing. although tnt wewre dashing the box around with my enigma leo in when they arrived at my door and she'd stopped eating and i blame tnt because it looked battered about. im so sorry to hear about this though fixx/loulou, it must have been such a shock xx


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## rockkeeper (Apr 5, 2007)

yup tnt will throw there boxes around just like the others, there no better or worse than the other parcel del company(big ones)
but things can and do die overnight, its call shock, not saying its happen in this sad case,

so you take your chances, or collect your self ,and try to take care for the trip home, but that can kill them too, 
just depends how the animal takes to being moved,
but yes i agree with nige get a post done up to show how to pack properly


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

its all down to the delivery guy at the end of it. If they dont care then it will be treated that way.
TNT 'policy' doesnt mean much when the van doors are closed

edit: on the other hand, there will of course be some great drivers out there who take brilliant care of packages with animals in


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## rockkeeper (Apr 5, 2007)

so true tops, even behind closed doors in the warehouses aswell,


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## repti-mon (Aug 31, 2007)

So sorry for your loss, i'd hate it if it happened to me but your going the right way about it. Personally i'd NEVER use a postal delivery service to buy/sell animals just for my own piece of mind! And like you said you don't know what happens behind closed doors, believe me i used to work for a mailing company and very little respect is taken over other people's property, not by myself of course but there are some b******s out there...


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

it has actually been stated that this was a packing error.........not a fault of the delivery people.


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## repti-mon (Aug 31, 2007)

yeah i know its a packing error i'm just saying i wouldn't use a delivery service myself, i'd rather collect for piece of mind and face to face contact with the sellar


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

in general i agree, but sometimes its not possible, photos and testimony from the seller and or others can give you piece of mind that the animal is as described and in good health.

also.. soem delivery ppl are complete gits, but id liek to think most are not.If everybody trusted tnt id have an easier time gettin soem lizards im after... but its not the case..and thus without personal insight into it i therefore couldnt try and pursuade a seller to use..especially if it would be on thier heads if soemthing went wrong [financially i mean]

Will check back later on this thread, look forwrd to seeing if the seller and fixx and lou lou get it sorted nicely.
Would also love to see how you package Nige, thats an awesome idea.


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

DeanThorpe said:


> Would also love to see how you package Nige, thats an awesome idea.


in a bloody big box i imagine


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

:lol2:


Tops said:


> in a bloody big box i imagine


 
with a pack of bourbons for the journey :lol2:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Doh... lol.. left myself open for that one.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Tops said:


> in a bloody big box i imagine


 
Bloody big box, packet of bourbons and a few velvet cushions!:lol2:


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## Robbie7127 (Sep 22, 2007)

*Legal*

Hey,

Firstly sorry for the loss, I hate the thought of dead reptiles.

Secondly, I really hope you get it all sorted, if you don't drop me a PM (I'm a lawyer) I recently had issue with a seller on Ebay which I paid through Paypal, a couple of well worded letters have had the sellers account closed and paypal refunding not only ALL my costs but "unspecifed" damages too (I cannot legally specify "unspecified" but suffice to say I bought a brand new item just with the claimed damages)

Good luck


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> i might do a thread at some point on how i pack, do it from scratch.. not everyone does it the same, but my way is pretty solid and its the only way they would accept the account.


i can second that nige's packing is spot on, couldnt find fault with it


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

Robbie7127 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Firstly sorry for the loss, I hate the thought of dead reptiles.
> 
> ...


Think i'll bookmark your name just in case i need you in future.....: victory:


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## PSGeckos (Jul 15, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> i might do a thread at some point on how i pack, do it from scratch.. not everyone does it the same, but my way is pretty solid and its the only way they would accept the account.


 
Yeh that would be an excellent idea. : victory:


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## ruby (Jan 5, 2007)

did you get everything fixed ?


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

Athravan said:


> I think it'd be a good thing to post. I get a lot of animals from wholesalers and the packaging is actually pretty crap, cardboard box with holes in, polybox in cardbox box.. that's it (and I should note I still have only ever had 1 casualty and it was a frog which are never guaranteed.. over the 100s of animals I have accepted this year... so it's not that hard to package it). Yours is probably the most sturdiest packaging i've ever seen.. they could drop a viv on top of it and the animals wouldn't notice


I already thought there was a packing and couriering reptiles but must be thinking of something else. Def worth putting up and being a sticky


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Was also wondering if this has been resolved yet?


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Sorry been meaning to post the outcome...

I have my money back after being fed some cock and cull story about it was Paypals fault, though I tend to think that this thread and the counterclaim I was launching may have done the trick.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

oh ok, i didnt realsie paypal personally package the items sold and paid for via them lol.

glad you got your refund, hopefully a similar even wont ever re-occur.


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