# Brazilian Wandering Spiders



## invertbreeder

Hi, just want to know if anyone on here keeps Phoneutria species and if so, how fast and agressive they are in relation to Pokies, Scolopendras and the African T's, I've wanted to keep DWA inverts for a while now and want to know if anyone does training courses like with the snakes or if it would really be needed for the council to grant a license.


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## mikeyb

sod that them things actually go after people to attack them thew tv series where the guy from lord of the rings is finding snakes and bugs they find one and the thing goes jumping at the camera man plus the idea of being bitten by something thats gonna give u a day long boner if u do survive says to me these should be well left alone :lol2:


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## SiUK

If you think handling training would be benificial to you go for it. Its not a requirement of licenses though, bear in mind that councils have been issuing licenses for decades and handling courses are a pretty new thing. 

I would personally say that some sort of guidance is worth it though, spiders are a bit different I suppose. The only DWA inverts I have kept are scorpions and tbh they are pretty hard to get stung by unless your being stupid, spiders are more mobile though.


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## mikeyb

mobiles not the word for it when ur talking about Phoneutria grease lightning with one of the most powerful venoms on the planet on other hand is more like it. i see a vid online of them milking these for AV now ur funnel webs they have in an open topped tub with a spall vacum hose these need almost a biohazard safe where there working like a key hole surgeon through the lid and there fed through tubes they cant fit through because of there agility and summint like 90% of bites result in envenomation its no wonder there latin name means murderer or summint


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## invertbreeder

Yeah I respect the fact that they are extremely speedy and venomous but I managed to keep inverts for years without getting bit once, I'm not blind to the fact that that possibility is always there though and that's why I want a bit of practical experience with these, know anywhere that keep these? By the way Siuk which DWA scorps did you used to keep?


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## SiUK

Hey mate I kept:

Parabuthus transvalicus 
Androctonus amoreuxi
Androctonus australis 
Leiurus quinquestriatus
Buthus occitanus

Was about 4-5 years ago now though.


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## invertbreeder

SiUK said:


> Hey mate I kept:
> 
> Parabuthus transvalicus
> Androctonus amoreuxi
> Androctonus australis
> Leiurus quinquestriatus
> Buthus occitanus
> 
> Was about 4-5 years ago now though.


I really like A. Australis, nice looking but deadly, you know any shops that keep Phoneutria or is any private keepers on here with them?


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## SiUK

I have seen them for sale a few times over the years, not common though.

With scorps I think that unless you are doing something stupid then its impossible to get tagged, there is no reason why your hand ever needs to be within striking distance.

I know Dave and Tom that post here keep some Lactrodectus species.


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## pythondave82

I've kept _Phoneutria fera_, I've spent a fair amount of time with _A. robustus_, in the Sydney regions and have been keeping _Latrodectus sp_. for a while now. I've also kept _Loxosceles reclusa_.

Phoneutria are by far the most challenging species to deal with. That said, there's not much difference in terms of speed between them and cobalt blues (what ever their scientific name may be...) I've not kept _Poecilotheria sp_., so I can't comment.

Start with the spider you wish to keep. By starting with _Latrodectus_, you will never progress to _Phoneutria_ - they are a million miles apart.

Cheers,

Dave


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## invertbreeder

Yeah, out of the DWA spiders it's always been the Phoneutria I've wanted to keep although I do like Latrodectus, don't really know to much about Funnel Webs though, I think I'm gonna go for the Phoneutria as soon as I get DWAL, there pretty cheap as well by the looks of things, 12 € for a P. Fera :O


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## KingElf

lol Brazilian wandering spids are the devil incarnate of the spider world , I was lucky to get photos of these in the wild in Ecuador , I wasn't sure what species it was at first , so me being a idiot tapped the leaf it was on so I could get a close up of cute little face :gasp::lol2:
I only positively ID'ed the spider as a wandering spider after I got back to the uk , when sorting through my images I took over there :blush:


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## coldestblood

KingElf said:


> lol Brazilian wandering spids are the devil incarnate of the spider world , I was lucky to get photos of these in the wild in Ecuador , I wasn't sure what species it was at first , so me being a idiot tapped the leaf it was on so I could get a close up of cute little face :gasp::lol2:
> I only positively ID'ed the spider as a wandering spider after I got back to the uk , when sorting through my images I took over there :blush:


Have you got any pics you can post on here?


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## KingElf

will get some , at the mo all my images are stored on cd's at my parents house


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## KingElf

found it on blurbs website , my books of costa rica and the andes and amazon I did through them are on there
preview vanishing world vol 1 andes and amazon the spider pic is on page 101 

VANISHING WORLD ANDE'S AND AMAZON Steve Adams | Book Preview | Blurb Books UK


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## Guest

In all honesty here I wouldn't say keeping Phoneutria is anything like keeping any T's or other inverts. They are all so different that it'll be stupid to put them in the same bracket.

For a comparing instance chart thingy bob on what you've asked and why you can't compare.


*Poecilotheria sp*. Pokies are fast. But how often will you see it? Feeding times and those times when you startle them. And mostly they will run into their webbed home they have created. Venom strength is in no way comparable. A bite might well put you in hospital, but chances of you dropping dead from it are slimmer than winning the lottery. A Phoneutria will be faster than any pokie and won't have no safe place to run as these are 'wandering' spiders which choose daily temporary homes opportunistically. So chances are a startled wanderer will go just about anywhere it can! Which with an open lid can mean outside the container... And that often happens in a blink of an eye, a lot quicker than you can get the lid back on! 


*Scolpendra sp*. The only similarity here is that they will both bite if given the chance. One will make you poorly and make the bite area swell and be sore for a few days, while the other will put your life in serious danger where you will need medical treatment. But in terms of movement again nowhere near. Scolpendra are fast but can't climb smooth surfaces. So if kept in a tub that's taller than the pede is long then you'll be fine. A phoneutria will climb glass as great speed.


*African T's*. This is a multitude of examples. But again no. The closest you'll get is probably H. maculate. And that's only for aggressiveness and speed which is usually in an upwards fashion (run upwards). But again these are big clumpy spiders that can't quite hit the same speeds on smooth surfaces. Just be careful if they web near the top... But venom wise you'll be ill, but nothing more than that. 


Ok well you've read why I wouldn't compare any of those with one so here's what if I had to say keep, I'd advise you to keep to get ready for one..... Dum de dum... *Drum rolls*... Cupiennius salei. My reason for this is simply because apart from the aggression they act the same. Speed wise these are the Bruce Lee's of the spider world. They both get to about the same size, and both can climb glass at alarming speeds. So as a practice the C salei is perfect. Sure it's not got even a fraction of venom potency as a Phoneutria, but that's besides the point. If you keep a Phoneutria, then you keep it to watch it and observe it and admire it for what it is. You don't want to find out how strong the venom is! So the main thing you will need to do is learn to keep one contained. Because you're not going to get bitten from inside the enclosure unless you're a complete idiot and stick your hands inside without an extremely good cause! Even if you drop a £50 note in there, I'd still say keeps your hands out. 


So for practise in Phoneutria keeping I'd advise Cupiennius salei every time.


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## invertbreeder

ImBatman said:


> In all honesty here I wouldn't say keeping Phoneutria is anything like keeping any T's or other inverts. They are all so different that it'll be stupid to put them in the same bracket.
> 
> For a comparing instance chart thingy bob on what you've asked and why you can't compare.
> 
> 
> *Poecilotheria sp*. Pokies are fast. But how often will you see it? Feeding times and those times when you startle them. And mostly they will run into their webbed home they have created. Venom strength is in no way comparable. A bite might well put you in hospital, but chances of you dropping dead from it are slimmer than winning the lottery. A Phoneutria will be faster than any pokie and won't have no safe place to run as these are 'wandering' spiders which choose daily temporary homes opportunistically. So chances are a startled wanderer will go just about anywhere it can! Which with an open lid can mean outside the container... And that often happens in a blink of an eye, a lot quicker than you can get the lid back on!
> 
> 
> *Scolpendra sp*. The only similarity here is that they will both bite if given the chance. One will make you poorly and make the bite area swell and be sore for a few days, while the other will put your life in serious danger where you will need medical treatment. But in terms of movement again nowhere near. Scolpendra are fast but can't climb smooth surfaces. So if kept in a tub that's taller than the pede is long then you'll be fine. A phoneutria will climb glass as great speed.
> 
> 
> *African T's*. This is a multitude of examples. But again no. The closest you'll get is probably H. maculate. And that's only for aggressiveness and speed which is usually in an upwards fashion (run upwards). But again these are big clumpy spiders that can't quite hit the same speeds on smooth surfaces. Just be careful if they web near the top... But venom wise you'll be ill, but nothing more than that.
> 
> 
> Ok well you've read why I wouldn't compare any of those with one so here's what if I had to say keep, I'd advise you to keep to get ready for one..... Dum de dum... *Drum rolls*... Cupiennius salei. My reason for this is simply because apart from the aggression they act the same. Speed wise these are the Bruce Lee's of the spider world. They both get to about the same size, and both can climb glass at alarming speeds. So as a practice the C salei is perfect. Sure it's not got even a fraction of venom potency as a Phoneutria, but that's besides the point. If you keep a Phoneutria, then you keep it to watch it and observe it and admire it for what it is. You don't want to find out how strong the venom is! So the main thing you will need to do is learn to keep one contained. Because you're not going to get bitten from inside the enclosure unless you're a complete idiot and stick your hands inside without an extremely good cause! Even if you drop a £50 note in there, I'd still say keeps your hands out.
> 
> 
> So for practise in Phoneutria keeping I'd advise Cupiennius salei every time.


Cheers for that, just researched the C. Salei, seem easy enough to keep, don't think I've ever seen those for sale though (Then again I've never specifically looked for C. Salei before.), are these common in the trade over here or just something you'd see at places like Hamm? Think I'm gonna take your advice on this and start with an American Wandering Spider before moving on to the Brazilian bad boys.


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## Guest

invertbreeder said:


> Cheers for that, just researched the C. Salei, seem easy enough to keep, don't think I've ever seen those for sale though (Then again I've never specifically looked for C. Salei before.), are these common in the trade over here or just something you'd see at places like Hamm? Think I'm gonna take your advice on this and start with an American Wandering Spider before moving on to the Brazilian bad boys.


You'll get these in the same places as the Brazilian bad boys. Jorg Bernhardt sells them, and occasionally they do come up for sale within UK sellers. But I would advise getting a sub adult of about 1-2 inch as these can just die when slings.


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## ian14

This is an old advert but it ould be worth getting in contact with them:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru.../908640-cupiennius-salei-slings-sale-50p.html


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