# nano tank ideas



## Liston156 (Jul 15, 2009)

Im new to the whole fish keeping thing, apart from koi carp and guppies lol

I like the idea of a nano tank containing something other than fish, some shrimp species, or some kind of invert, im not really sure :lol2: so any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated :notworthy:


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## peter62 (Oct 8, 2012)

Hay,If you’ve been successful with creating and maintaining a nano reef, you ought to be commended. Bring to the table a whole new array of considerations because of their size. Although the term is conventionally used to refer to smaller than 40 gallons, “nano” here refers to systems smaller than 15.


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

I've got the ideas of making a nano 30ltr with 3 dwarf puffers but you can't steal that :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Spot (Jun 15, 2011)

African Dwarf Frogs - _Hymenochirus boettgeri_

I've done some previous posts on their care:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibian-care-sheets/703489-african-dwarf-frog.html#post10226335
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/shelled-turtles-tortoise/852300-30l-aquarium-tank-what-keep.html#post10079948
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/818898-what-new-phib.html#post9712565


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Other than fish and shrimp, you're quite limited due to size. Some good suggestions have been made though.
No fish and inverts is limited to...amphibians then. And most are either too large or not entirely aquatic; the only one I can think of is the already mentioned dwarf frog.
If you're prepared to broaden into something invertebrate, perhaps look at some of our natives? Gammarus are pretty interesting. Do some research.


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## Liston156 (Jul 15, 2009)

Zerox Z21 said:


> Other than fish and shrimp, you're quite limited due to size. Some good suggestions have been made though.
> No fish and inverts is limited to...amphibians then. And most are either too large or not entirely aquatic; the only one I can think of is the already mentioned dwarf frog.
> If you're prepared to broaden into something invertebrate, perhaps look at some of our natives? Gammarus are pretty interesting. Do some research.


sorry i just re-read my origional post and i worded it completely wrong, i was meant to say i was looking for possibly an invert of some description and the ideas are good, unfortunately i have never seen any dwarf frogs this far north :banghead:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I set up an invert only tank recently and I'm glad I went for a larger tank (80L). I looked at nano tanks but you are paying so much them (I got my 60x30x30 fo the same price, with all the gubbins) and the small volume seems like potential hassle to me. 

Just my preference, but I'd go for a slightly bigger tank (60L) and enjoy more freedom for planting and mixing species together.


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## Liston156 (Jul 15, 2009)

GRB said:


> I set up an invert only tank recently and I'm glad I went for a larger tank (80L). I looked at nano tanks but you are paying so much them (I got my 60x30x30 fo the same price, with all the gubbins) and the small volume seems like potential hassle to me.
> 
> Just my preference, but I'd go for a slightly bigger tank (60L) and enjoy more freedom for planting and mixing species together.


Ok cheers, what species have you got in there then??


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Liston156 said:


> Ok cheers, what species have you got in there then??


Just now I have Caridina gracilirostris (rhino shrimp) and Laos micro crabs. 

I'm adding some sakura red next week, then I'll let them mature and hopefully breed. I started with a 10 of each of the rhino shrimp and crabs, with 7 red cherry shrimp (mainly because I couldn't really afford more the now for this species). I had one accidental inclusion of a red cherry with my order of rhino shrimp so I decided this species would be an obvious partner, and wanted to get some other compatriots for the sole cherry just now. Being in a different genus, they won't interbreed.

Plants wise I have about 10 marimo moss balls, myriophyllum sp roraima, najas sp roraima, limnophila sp mini vietnam and salvinia cucullata (which was not doing well so I've removed this and culture it seperately). There's also a couple of species of moss, peakcock and flame iirc.

Water conditions are set as best I can for the middle ground of all the species - ph is about 7-7.5, slight hardness. Was worried a little by nitrites but there seems to be no ill signs showing. It's about 3mg/ml apparently going by the test kit, but the daphnia and such are thriving so I am perhaps mis-testing, or it isn't an issue for them as much as fish. The reason I mention daphnia is they are used for measuring toxicity of lots of things so I added them to act as an early warning system when I first set up the tank but before stocking with my preferred livestock.


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## Liston156 (Jul 15, 2009)

is there any reason you couldnt mix red shrimp and yellow shrimp to create a more colourful setup


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Liston156 said:


> is there any reason you couldnt mix red shrimp and yellow shrimp to create a more colourful setup


Of all the 'dwarf shrimp', there are only two true species involved in all the various colours, of the genus caridina (e.g. crystal red shrimp) and neocaridina (e.g. cherry shrimp).
For example, under neocaridina, you have red, yellow, orange and other colours as a result of deliberate line breeding. Let the varieties interbreed and you lose those colours and just get a mess. Shrimp tanks are always run to intend breeding as they are reasonably short lived, so tank set ups intend a breeding, self sustaining colony (otherwise you'd be buying more every year or so). And people like the colours.
If you ensure you have two varieties from each genus, then they will not interbreed though. So you could have crystal red shrimp mixed with cherry shrimp. But crystal red shrimp and bumblebee shrimp do interbreed.

The yellow shrimp you refer to are neocaridina, and the most common and popular shrimp in the hobby is the cherry shrimp, which I assume you mean by red, which is also neocaridina.
Unfortunately many of the more interesting colours tend to be neocaridina. Most caridina varieties are rather expensive, especially the more interesting ones! Tiger shrimp might be a good mix, among the more resilient caridina.

Micro crabs tend to be expensive and currently have never been bred in captivity as far as I know. Well, they have, but no one has managed to raise the young past a few days. Very interesting looking things though!

You could also look at the various tropical snails available, a nice mix with shrimp. Nothing more amusing than watching a shrimp ride a snail!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

There is a chart here that someone worked out for the hobby varieties that would help plan a mixed species tank.

Will These Shrimp Interbreed? .:. Information on keepign Freshwater Aquarium Shrimp Species in the same Aquarium without creating a Hybrid Shrimp

Basically, the safest option is to only have species in different genera as above.

You can also mix some species within the same genus providing they are different species, and the risk of interbreeding should be low (athough depends on the species). 

The other thing with shrimp is I'd pay attention to which ones require brackish or marine water for the offspring. These are meant to be much, much harder to breed. Many of the sellers will not list if the offspring require this, so you might end up buying a species of shrimp that will only exist as adults in your aquarium.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

All dwarf shrimp are freshwater breeders. The only ones that require brackish for the larvae are larger species such as the amano shrimp, which are less appropriate for a nano tank anyway. The other species I know of are both the filter feeding species which are definitely a bad idea for a small tank.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Zerox Z21 said:


> All dwarf shrimp are freshwater breeders. The only ones that require brackish for the larvae are larger species such as the amano shrimp, which are less appropriate for a nano tank anyway. The other species I know of are both the filter feeding species which are definitely a bad idea for a small tank.


True - although I've seen such shrimp labelled as 'dwarf' still - and Caridina serratirostris, C.propinqua and C.multidentata need brackish / saltwater to reproduce. These still fall into the 'dwarf' category do they not?


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

GRB said:


> True - although I've seen such shrimp labelled as 'dwarf' still - and Caridina serratirostris, C.propinqua and C.multidentata need brackish / saltwater to reproduce. These still fall into the 'dwarf' category do they not?


By 'dwarf' I do mean Caradina Cantonensis and Neocaradina Heteropoda and all morphs/variants of these two.
I wasn't aware those others counted as dwarf shrimp, and the first two I've never seen for sale. The third one is the somewhat larger amano shrimp, which I've not seen referred to as a 'dwarf' shrimp.

If more than one species is desired, starting with Neocaradina is probably advisable: alot easier to keep, breed, and also cheaper!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I have to admit to being no expert, I've just seen them labelled as various things. It is quite confusing at times.

Somewhat confused by the serratirostris anyway, had a death over the weekend and have no idea why. Can only seem to see 5 of the original 10 I bought. I am little confused since water conditions are fine - checked them again the other day and nitrites are <0.3mg/ml. pH seems within the normal range.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> I have to admit to being no expert, I've just seen them labelled as various things. It is quite confusing at times.
> 
> Somewhat confused by the serratirostris anyway, had a death over the weekend and have no idea why. Can only seem to see 5 of the original 10 I bought. I am little confused since water conditions are fine - checked them again the other day and nitrites are <0.3mg/ml. pH seems within the normal range.


When I was a kid I used to work in an importers during weekends and school holidays. On more than one occasion the fish house manager made up new 'common names' to try and sell slow moving species. This is on top of all the others who label up incorrectly!

Nitrite of 0.3mg/ml is still potentially toxic.

P.S Join the Seriouslyfish forum and seek out member Keith if you want serious shrimp chat.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Mynki said:


> When I was a kid I used to work in an importers during weekends and school holidays. On more than one occasion the fish house manager made up new 'common names' to try and sell slow moving species. This is on top of all the others who label up incorrectly!
> 
> Nitrite of 0.3mg/ml is still potentially toxic.
> 
> P.S Join the Seriouslyfish forum and seek out member Keith if you want serious shrimp chat.


Cheers for the heads up. 

Nitrite seems bottomed out after another retest - not sure why I spiked I'll need to check for anything weird. I thought the tank had been settled sufficiently before adding the shrimp.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> Cheers for the heads up.
> 
> Nitrite seems bottomed out after another retest - not sure why I spiked I'll need to check for anything weird. I thought the tank had been settled sufficiently before adding the shrimp.


Is it a new tank? It is very common for new tanks to spike after being cycled. However there is always a reason. Sometimes it's over feeding, sometimes it's decomposing livestock. You say you can't see all of your shrimp, is it possible one or more have died and this caused the spike?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Mynki said:


> Is it a new tank? It is very common for new tanks to spike after being cycled. However there is always a reason. Sometimes it's over feeding, sometimes it's decomposing livestock. You say you can't see all of your shrimp, is it possible one or more have died and this caused the spike?


I have seen another 6 serratirostris and the sole cherry red which was accidentally shipped with the 10 initial serratirostris. One was 100% confirmed dead as I found it recently dead in good condition (and afterwards pickled it). I reckon the others are probably fine but hidden, as the Laos micro crabs I added are moulting and visible and seem fine. I'd have expected any issues influencing the shrimp to also influence the crab and microorganisms if this was a water issue, especially given that the rhino shrimp are meant to be fairly tolerant of a wide range of conditions. 

It could have been over feeding but I only feed ever 2-3 days and small amounts. Going to test nitrite again tonight to see, as I fed 2 days ago and I suppose the effects of over feeding would be visible now if food remained uneaten. 

The tank was cyced without any livestock for 4.5 - 5 weeks with just plants (and daphnia, etc, from the filter conditioner fluid).


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Zerox Z21 said:


> All dwarf shrimp are freshwater breeders. The only ones that require brackish for the larvae are larger species such as the amano shrimp, which are less appropriate for a nano tank anyway. The other species I know of are both the filter feeding species which are definitely a bad idea for a small tank.


Not actually true. Caridina propinqua has a brackish zoe phase just like Amano shrimp, fan shrimp and red nose shrimp for example. There are plenty of dwarf shrimp that have a brackish/marine larval phase.

Ade


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> I have seen another 6 serratirostris and the sole cherry red which was accidentally shipped with the 10 initial serratirostris. One was 100% confirmed dead as I found it recently dead in good condition (and afterwards pickled it). I reckon the others are probably fine but hidden, as the Laos micro crabs I added are moulting and visible and seem fine. I'd have expected any issues influencing the shrimp to also influence the crab and microorganisms if this was a water issue, especially given that the rhino shrimp are meant to be fairly tolerant of a wide range of conditions.
> 
> It could have been over feeding but I only feed ever 2-3 days and small amounts. Going to test nitrite again tonight to see, as I fed 2 days ago and I suppose the effects of over feeding would be visible now if food remained uneaten.
> 
> The tank was cyced without any livestock for 4.5 - 5 weeks with just plants (and daphnia, etc, from the filter conditioner fluid).


How are things now? It could have been a water issue, but without ammonia and nitrate readings it's difficult to say. The best time to measure is around an hour after feeding or so. You'll soon tell how well the filter is performing etc.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Not actually true. Caridina propinqua has a brackish zoe phase just like Amano shrimp, fan shrimp and red nose shrimp for example. There are plenty of dwarf shrimp that have a brackish/marine larval phase.
> 
> Ade


GRB already corrected me on the last page; 'all' was poor wording on my part. I really just meant the two more commonly available and popular dwarf species of neocaridina and most the caridina morphs ala red crystal shrimp, bee shrimp etc.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Zerox Z21 said:


> GRB already corrected me on the last page; 'all' was poor wording on my part. I really just meant the two more commonly available and popular dwarf species of neocaridina and most the caridina morphs ala red crystal shrimp, bee shrimp etc.


Aye I was backing them up.  Also you made another error where you stated that all caridina were one species, and all neocaridina were another species, and that neocaridina are cherry shrimp. Cherry shrimp are neocaridina heteropoda only, there are lots of other neocaridina, including but not limited to palmata and _cf. zhangjiajiensi to name just a couple.  The caridina are even more varied, with caridina multidenta having very little in common with caridina simoni simoni. : victory:

If you have an interest in freshwater shrimp, you could do worst than to have a read on http://ukshrimp.co.uk/species-profiles/, it includes details of what you can expect availability in the UK to be like too. :2thumb:

Ade
_


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