# Considering getting a corn snake...



## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Hello,
A few years ago, i bought a corn snake hatchling from a local shop only for it to die 5 days later (couldn't find the cause). I bought 2 more, which also died. This really put me off for some time, because i couldn't understand why they had just died - the guy i bought them from told me he couldn't find the cause of death. 

Now a few years have past, i want to have another go. I really do love snakes, i'm just scared i'll mess up because of what happened before.

I have a full set up in my bedroom, and am just needing a snake. 

I was wondering what advice you could all give me? I've got a corn snake book, i've read i don't know how many care sheets and guides, watched videos etc, i just really want advice from those who have corn snakes.

One thing i would like to know is - The guy i originally got my 1st corn snakes from told me I could handle them straight away (just not after feeding for a few days). But, i read on here its best to give them a few weeks to settle? whats best?

Thanks.


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## janeann10uk (May 27, 2009)

i would leave them to settle in for at least a week, let it get used to you changing its water , spot cleaning etc Dont forget, your hand will seem huge to a baby corn :2thumb:


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

First things first.

What does your set up comprise of?


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

Yeah whats in your set up. 
It's very odd all them snakes died.


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## Tatile (Jul 1, 2011)

Give them a week or more to settle in. We gave ours a week, then gave them a feed to set up the routine. It will help if you let people know your set-up; my initial guess is that you may have had a temperature problem in the viv(s) (or possibly the snakes were ill when you bought them, if you got them from the same place).


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

Tatile said:


> Give them a week or more to settle in. We gave ours a week, then gave them a feed to set up the routine. It will help if you let people know your set-up; my initial guess is that you may have had a temperature problem in the viv(s) (or possibly the snakes were ill when you bought them, if you got them from the same place).


 I thought it sounded like temps


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Herpster said:


> First things first.
> 
> What does your set up comprise of?


 
I have a tank / vivarium - it's not big but its not small. Its the size most shops have for a starter.
I have a water dish, 2 shelters, 2 stones, 3 bags of woodchips, heat mat and a thermostat.
I also have tongs for feeding the snake and a jug for thawing the mice.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Tatile said:


> Give them a week or more to settle in. We gave ours a week, then gave them a feed to set up the routine. It will help if you let people know your set-up; my initial guess is that you may have had a temperature problem in the viv(s) (or possibly the snakes were ill when you bought them, if you got them from the same place).


I got told that as long as i kept the temp higher than 60 degrees F. then it would be fine. The room was never cold, then heat mat worked fine, and they seemed happy. I did get them all from the same shop and creally, am not sure. They were fine one minute, the first one - he just died, the night before he was fine then i woke up to find him upside down with clouded over eyes. Then when i got the other two, Cola started to breathe with his mouth open, he wouldn't eat and then he died (found him in the same state as Shadow), and finally Pepsi died not soon after - he was fine like Shadow though (-he didn't have any eating problems, he was fine, really feisty).


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

What was the exact temperature on the floor of the enclosure right above the heat mat?

The heat mat - did it plug into a thermostat or straight into a wall socket?

What colour are the wood chips?

Your description of what happened to them makes it sound like they were having respiratory problems before they died, and in my experience this can happen if they're overheated OR if they're exposed to some sort of chemical that is toxic to them if they inhale it.

Any chance of a photo of your setup?


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## ex0tics (Jun 9, 2009)

you've had three die on you? clearly you're doing something wrong.

You should be aiming for 83-87F(ish) on the warm side.

I hope someone can steer you in the right direction because I hate reading things like this.


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## Herpster (Oct 24, 2006)

ex0tics said:


> you've had three die on you? clearly you're doing something wrong.


I think we need to approach this with a little sensitivity. We have not ruled out the fact that the three she had form the same source we not ill already. 

As mentioned how are you measuring the temps. In a little faunarium it wouldn't take much to get a little too hot in there. And how much of the mat is covering the faunarium, and is it inside or outside the tank?


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> What was the exact temperature on the floor of the enclosure right above the heat mat?
> 
> The heat mat - did it plug into a thermostat or straight into a wall socket?
> 
> ...


About the temp - If i'm being completely honest, i can't remember - it was a good 3/4 years ago. . I don't think it went as high as 90 degrees but even then, i can't really remember..
The heat mat plugged into the wall.
The wood chips are a light brown - i think the bag said it was 'natural' colouring? (thats why i got it..)

I don't believe they were overheated - i could be wrong, but i can't remember the temp going any higher than 80 degrees in the heated part.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Herpster said:


> I think we need to approach this with a little sensitivity. We have not ruled out the fact that the three she had form the same source we not ill already.
> 
> As mentioned how are you measuring the temps. In a little faunarium it wouldn't take much to get a little too hot in there. And how much of the mat is covering the faunarium, and is it inside or outside the tank?


I have a thermostat in there and the heat mat was externally covering half the tank.


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## Tatile (Jul 1, 2011)

DinaDarkness said:


> The heat mat plugged into the wall.


The heat mat should be plugged into a thermostat so that the temperature can be properly regulated (there's a thread about with the results of not using a thermostat, it's not pretty) and ideally you'd also have a thermometer to show what the temps are as well 

For substrate try to go with something like aspen if you really want wood shavings, as there are some which can be bought (cedar and cypress?) which are actually toxic to reptiles and rodents. Alternatively you can use paper towel as a substrate - it's particularly useful for looking at poo.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Tatile said:


> The heat mat should be plugged into a thermostat so that the temperature can be properly regulated (there's a thread about with the results of not using a thermostat, it's not pretty) and ideally you'd also have a thermometer to show what the temps are as well
> 
> For substrate try to go with something like aspen if you really want wood shavings, as there are some which can be bought (cedar and cypress?) which are actually toxic to reptiles and rodents. Alternatively you can use paper towel as a substrate - it's particularly useful for looking at poo.


Thanks for pointing that out, i'll definately do that this time coming. 
A lot of people recommend aspen, i can't seem to spot it in my local shops though (maybe i'm not looking hard enough - sorta typical for me :blush: )..
I think it was cedar i'd read that was toxic. I'm thinking of using paper towels this time..is newspaper okay? I once read something about it being not recommended because of something to do with the ink? But quite a few people online recommend it..


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

DinaDarkness said:


> I have a thermostat in there and the heat mat was externally covering half the tank.


Just to check we're using the same terms:

A thermo*meter* is a piece of equipment - which may be digital or not - which measures temperatures. It cannot control temperatures - it can tell you "Yep, it's 110 degrees right here" but it can't do anything about it.

A thermo*stat* is a piece of electronic equipment your heating equipment plugs into. The thermostat itself plugs into the wall, and it is used to control temperatures - it has a temperature probe which, when the temperature you set is exceeded, it either cuts the power to the heating equipment or reduces the amount of power (like a dimming switch) to make the heater cool down.

If the heat mat plugged straight into the wall, I'm pretty sure you had a thermo*meter* not a thermostat, and if that's the case, it is quite possible that heat was a problem.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> Just to check we're using the same terms:
> 
> A thermo*meter* is a piece of equipment - which may be digital or not - which measures temperatures. It cannot control temperatures - it can tell you "Yep, it's 110 degrees right here" but it can't do anything about it.
> 
> ...


Ah :blush:
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the correct words :whistling2:
Its a thermometer then! (I originally got told it was a thermostat.. i just stuck with that -___-)..


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Can I suggest buying your corns from a different place this time too. And if you're going to choose a baby, at least 8 weeks old to lessen the risk of sudden death. 

Pictures of your set up as well as the age of corn you intend to get would help people advise you better


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Can I suggest buying your corns from a different place this time too. And if you're going to choose a baby, at least 8 weeks old to lessen the risk of sudden death.
> 
> Pictures of your set up as well as the age of corn you intend to get would help people advise you better


I'm definately going to buy from another shop, I don't want to take any risk. And thats a good idea.

I currently can't post pics up (My computer's ports don't work so i can't transfer pics from a camera or phone at the moment - sucks..)

I do want a hatchling, but i'm not overly bothered as long as its under a year. I do really want 2 like i had before, but that all depends at the moment for me.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

To be honest, I would start with just the one - get comfortable with keeping a single corn alive, happy, healthy and growing first, before you consider a second. 

Co-housing a pair from hatchlings *can* be done successfully - but it can also have depressing results if one hatchling eats the other one (youngsters particularly can be cannibalistic) or bullies the other into not eating. I personally wouldn't co-house youngsters at all, and I currently only put adults together if I'm deliberately trying to breed them.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> To be honest, I would start with just the one - get comfortable with keeping a single corn alive, happy, healthy and growing first, before you consider a second.
> 
> Co-housing a pair from hatchlings *can* be done successfully - but it can also have depressing results if one hatchling eats the other one (youngsters particularly can be cannibalistic) or bullies the other into not eating. I personally wouldn't co-house youngsters at all, and I currently only put adults together if I'm deliberately trying to breed them.


I wouldn't house 2 together, I have a few hatchlings in tubs at the mo and the snow keeps trying to strike through the plastic to the others


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

Heya, I'll put in some advice that I think will help!

Firstly, sourcing a corn - have a look in the classifieds section on here, you can get stunning corn snakes (there are some great stripes) at great prices, locally usually, and in great health. I personally don't buy from shops - I prefer buying from the breeder - you can meet the babies parents etc.

A thermostat and thermometer are different, but both are really vital to have, and once you have them, are a really good investment - they give you constant peace of mind, and allow you to check that the temperatures are ok IF something ever goes wrong - I had a thermostat break, the heat mat went on full blast, and my corn really quite literally cooked her own faeces inside her! The faeces became solid lumps and she couldn't defecate for 13 weeks. Thankfully, my rep vet helped her through it and didn't charge a penny. 

The thermostat controls the temperature, and the thermometer tells you the temperature that the heat mat is actually at so that if the thermostat stops working, you know before it's too late. 

For hatchling corns, I prefer to use aspen shavings - it's cheap, smells nice and looks good - if you, or anyone else here is concerned the chips might be causing respiratory problems, for me, I'd ditch them and switch to aspen - again, peace of mind!

It's good you have two hides - one hot, one cold. I also give my corns branches to climb (they don't use it particularly often, but it's really nice when they do).

Handling - It's SOOOOOO tempting to handle them! But really honestly, it is so much better to leave them for atleast a week, then offer them a meal, if they take it, great! Let them digest it for 48 hours, and after that, I'm usually happy to handle a new snake - just 10 mins, then leave it for the day, let them get used to handling, and you'll find you get loads less problems!

A really, really good book is available by Bill and Kathy Love, absolutely recommend it! On amazon it is at a good price too. 

My final advice, is double check things - if the pet shop or breeder or who ever says, 31 degrees is fine for a corn snake, ask someone else too - maybe the other person or book says 29 degrees is better and 31 is too hot, so triple check with someone else too - everyone has a slightly different opinion, but if you ask enough people, you'l find an answer, the point is, don't just use one source of information, I use at least 3 - books, internet, and forum - but I use multiple books, multiple internet sites and multiple forums.

I know that bark chips will have cost you money, but if your worried about them, scrap the money and buy something you know is safe - losing a couple of quid and gaining a healthy snake is loads better than keeping the couple of quid, having an unhealthy snake, and having to spend more in the future trying to correct the previous mistake.. Take it from someone who learn't the hard way!

Really hope you can get a thermostat sorted, and really hope you find a snake you like! I got the female corn I mentioned when I was 14, I'm now up to 21 animals in 7 years.. If you get a corn.. Be prepared for the onslaught of reptile addiction.. 

Good luck, really hope this helps,

Josh


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh, and as for having two snakes - I would also only get one to begin with, make sure everything's running smoothly, and then think about a 2nd one - you might find you only want one corn snake, and decide for a second snake you want a milk snake or something (obviously these can't be kept together).

My advice is not to house two corns under 3 ft together - play things safe and you won't make mistakes! I do happen to house my two female corns together, they have 6ft of floor space and large hides, you CAN house two together, but my advice is to only do it with adults / sub-adults. For now, I would just get one.. (the addiction beginning before you even have your first one maybe?)

Remember snakes are not social animals - they wont "miss" another snake, there are a lot of negatives to housing snakes together - you really have to plan it and make sure they can get away from each other when they want to etc, I really wouldn't advise it untill your happy and confident with them! 

Good luck!

Josh


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

P.s. sorry it's so verbose..


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

Pps. Just realised I have 22 animals, not 21..


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## naz90 (May 9, 2010)

personally i would only get the one to started with. we got our first corn and then we got another one about 3 months later but only after i learned a bit more about them you can ask as many question on here, read as many caresheets and books as you like but you still dont gain that hands on experience. im not saying dont read all off the above thou just get one first and then move on from there. as many people on here will say one non feeding snake is stressful enough but two well you could end up feeling like banging your head on the wall.

as for buying the corn have a look around see what you like and set your self an amount on what you are willing to spend but as someone else has already said it will be cheaper to buy from a breeder on here as it will be cheaper than the shops and most breeders are happy to give you future advice and some will even buy back from you if you feel it is getting to much for you.

good luck and post some pics on here when you do buy your corn 

cheers
naz90


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Snakey Josh said:


> Heya, I'll put in some advice that I think will help!
> 
> Firstly, sourcing a corn - have a look in the classifieds section on here, you can get stunning corn snakes (there are some great stripes) at great prices, locally usually, and in great health. I personally don't buy from shops - I prefer buying from the breeder - you can meet the babies parents etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting all this Josh, I really appreciate it! I'm definately going to get Aspen shavings rather than carry on using what i already have. Can corns eat on aspen shavings? I've seen a few people recommend to remove them from the tank and put them in a spot where there is no aspen shavings for feeding? 
And, i believe i do have a thermostat somewhere... its where though. I'm going to have to find it.

As i said, thanks for the great advice, and will put a pic up when i get one and my computer gets sorted :2thumb: And just to add, i'm pretty sure an obsession with them is already starting! XD


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Snakey Josh said:


> Oh, and as for having two snakes - I would also only get one to begin with, make sure everything's running smoothly, and then think about a 2nd one - you might find you only want one corn snake, and decide for a second snake you want a milk snake or something (obviously these can't be kept together).
> 
> My advice is not to house two corns under 3 ft together - play things safe and you won't make mistakes! I do happen to house my two female corns together, they have 6ft of floor space and large hides, you CAN house two together, but my advice is to only do it with adults / sub-adults. For now, I would just get one.. (the addiction beginning before you even have your first one maybe?)
> 
> ...


Most people have already said don't get 2, and i think at least now, with your imput nevermind everyone else's i'm aware as to why i shouldn't. 
When i had corns before, i had 2 together, but then, i was told that it wasn't a bad thing. I hadn't really looked into _everything_ i could have back then too. 

Definately going to just get the one, not long to wait now


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

naz90 said:


> personally i would only get the one to started with. we got our first corn and then we got another one about 3 months later but only after i learned a bit more about them you can ask as many question on here, read as many caresheets and books as you like but you still dont gain that hands on experience. im not saying dont read all off the above thou just get one first and then move on from there. as many people on here will say one non feeding snake is stressful enough but two well you could end up feeling like banging your head on the wall.
> 
> as for buying the corn have a look around see what you like and set your self an amount on what you are willing to spend but as someone else has already said it will be cheaper to buy from a breeder on here as it will be cheaper than the shops and most breeders are happy to give you future advice and some will even buy back from you if you feel it is getting to much for you.
> 
> ...


Cola wouldn't feed when i had him and i must admit, it did really distress me. Looks like i have another negative for keeping two - glad about it though! If i hadn't of gone on here in the first place, i don't think i would have gotten the good advice i have received. 
I am actually going to start looking in the classifieds - definately worth it, and i suppose there is that knowledge that you've bought from someone who cares for the creatures.
Will post pics when i get him/her and when i get to a working computer! 

Thanks


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

The problem with feeding on aspen shavings, is that the shavings can stick to the food item - the snake then ingests the wood as well as the prey, and it can block their digestive tract. I feed all my snakes in a feeding tub - just a sandwhich box from tesco, lid snaps shut on it, so they can't get out! They also learn to associate the tub with food, because sometimes, if you feed them in the tank they live in, they begin to learn that opening the door of the tank means they will get fed - and they begin to bite the first object going into the tank (usually a hand rather than a mouse). If you feed them in a seperate tub, not only does it mean they don't run the risk of eating the wood by accident, it also means that they dont mistake your hand for food when you open their vivarium up! 

I was working with a reticulated python (with one eye weirdly) that had learnt t bite the first thing through it's viv door - it was only 9ft or so at the time, but when that things 25ft and doing the same behaviour it gets dangerous! Obviously a corn wont ever get to 25ft, but the principles still the same! So for my money, I'd pop to tesco, buy a food storage tub, and use that as your "feed tub"!

Hope that helps!

Josh

P.s My boa does not fit in a sandwhich box ha ha


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

I used to feed my snakes in separate tubs but as I have a lot more snakes now it's impractical. I've have not noticed and change in temperament but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I stopped using aspen cause i was fed up of it getting in the water.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Snakey Josh said:


> had learnt t bite the first thing through it's viv door - ... Obviously a corn wont ever get to 25ft, but the principles still the same! So for my money, I'd pop to tesco, buy a food storage tub, and use that as your "feed tub"!


On the other hand, if you believe that feeding in the viv teaches the snake to bite the first thing that comes through the door (and ignore the idea that they know what food SMELLS like) ... conversely, feeding outside the viv teaches the snake that coming out = food, and equally increases (or completely fails to increase) the chance of being bitten.

The logical thing is, of course, _consistency _in how you feed and handle.

I tend to reach into vivariums with a hook - so that if someone is asleep or narky, it's not my HAND that it's going to react to. I feed in the vivarium - but don't stick a hook in there and stroke the snake when I'm feeding.


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> On the other hand, if you believe that feeding in the viv teaches the snake to bite the first thing that comes through the door (and ignore the idea that they know what food SMELLS like) ... conversely, feeding outside the viv teaches the snake that coming out = food, and equally increases (or completely fails to increase) the chance of being bitten.
> 
> The logical thing is, of course, _consistency _in how you feed and handle.
> 
> I tend to reach into vivariums with a hook - so that if someone is asleep or narky, it's not my HAND that it's going to react to. I feed in the vivarium - but don't stick a hook in there and stroke the snake when I'm feeding.


That's a very good point. I'm gonna remember this.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Snakey Josh said:


> The problem with feeding on aspen shavings, is that the shavings can stick to the food item - the snake then ingests the wood as well as the prey, and it can block their digestive tract. I feed all my snakes in a feeding tub - just a sandwhich box from tesco, lid snaps shut on it, so they can't get out! They also learn to associate the tub with food, because sometimes, if you feed them in the tank they live in, they begin to learn that opening the door of the tank means they will get fed - and they begin to bite the first object going into the tank (usually a hand rather than a mouse). If you feed them in a seperate tub, not only does it mean they don't run the risk of eating the wood by accident, it also means that they dont mistake your hand for food when you open their vivarium up!
> 
> I was working with a reticulated python (with one eye weirdly) that had learnt t bite the first thing through it's viv door - it was only 9ft or so at the time, but when that things 25ft and doing the same behaviour it gets dangerous! Obviously a corn wont ever get to 25ft, but the principles still the same! So for my money, I'd pop to tesco, buy a food storage tub, and use that as your "feed tub"!
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll have to go get a tub now :2thumb:


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> On the other hand, if you believe that feeding in the viv teaches the snake to bite the first thing that comes through the door (and ignore the idea that they know what food SMELLS like) ... conversely, feeding outside the viv teaches the snake that coming out = food, and equally increases (or completely fails to increase) the chance of being bitten.
> 
> The logical thing is, of course, _consistency _in how you feed and handle.
> 
> I tend to reach into vivariums with a hook - so that if someone is asleep or narky, it's not my HAND that it's going to react to. I feed in the vivarium - but don't stick a hook in there and stroke the snake when I'm feeding.


Thanks for adding this!


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

just a small question:

what cleaning spray is best to use on the viv?

Is normal cleaning spray / bleach spray okay as long as it's thoroughly washed off after? Or is it best to get animal friendly / reptile friendly cleaning stuff? 

Thanks.


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## Snakey Josh (Jul 25, 2011)

I personally only use reptile friendly stuff, but if you use hot water and weak washing up liquid and rinse thoroughly after you'll be fine! I haven't heard of anyone using bleach so I'm not sure what the consequences are! I'd steer clear of bleach just in case though - washing up liquid will work 

Cheers,

Josh


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## grannykins (Oct 9, 2006)

Some bleaches contain pine, and others are really strong. I use F10, which is safe for animals, including reptiles. If you buy the small bottle of concentrated stuff it lasts for absolutely ages. Works out a lot more expensive if you buy it ready for use.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Is 'Bob Martin My little friend cage disinfectant' suitable? 
We have some, and it says its suitable for small animal homes and equipment, but thought i'd check just incase.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

the back of the 'Bob Martin My Little Friend Cage Disinfectant' says:

"Safe and easy to use, My Little Friend Cage Disinfectant is perfect for cleaing your small animal's home and accessories. This mild but effective disinfectant kills germs, viruses and bacteria and should be used regularly to keep cages, hutches and feeding equiptment clean and hygienic. It is also safe for use as directed on surfaces in your home".

Product contents are as follows:

"Non-Ionic Surfactants: alcohol ethoxylates and amine oxides - less than 5%. Poly (hexamethylenebiguanide) hydrochloride 0.06% w/w, isopropanol, perfume, colour and water."

Is this safe to use? Or should I buy something that specifically specifies that its reptile friendly?

Thanks


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## grannykins (Oct 9, 2006)

Dont know about that one, I'd be a bit wary about the perfume bit. F10 is the one used by many vets, and kills bacteria, yeasts, fungi and most viruses.


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## DinaDarkness (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks for replying, I'll go get some of that stuff then. My sisters can make use of the one we have - we have 4 rabbits :2thumb:


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