# So you want to breed Staffies?



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

I was browsing the battersea dogs home pages today and looking at what there is needing a home. Out of the 127 on the page. Would you believe a whopping 65 are staffies or staffy crosses, including a litter of puppies.
This sort of thing is what makes me wonder why staffie owners still want to breed their dogs. I love staffies but if I had a bitch I'd never breed her because of the problems finding excellent permanent homes.
Dogs - Battersea Dogs & Cats Home


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## Sharpy6272 (May 14, 2008)

Perhaps because chavs don't make the best owners. :lol2:


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## shelley_draven (Jul 5, 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly, my local rescue is the same. Out of 30 dogs, 17 are staffy or staffy x. 

As soon as my Bear was old enough, he went in for the snip.

I can only think that it's greed in some cases. Someone i heard of had 2 bitches having litters at the same time (18 puppies) to make a quick buck. He sold what puppies he could and the rest were chucked into rescue centres. Needless to say another two litters are on the way. Sickening.


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

Very sad. I have only had female dogs till now. I have never had a litter of pups and i never will


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## longhaircavies (Jun 21, 2008)

I help out my friend that runs a rescue and is over run with staffs that people just dont want. We get emails and faxes through daily of dogs that need takin in and if their not are going to be put to sleep and sadly near on 50 healthy homeable staff and staff cross aloan are being destroyed as no body wants them anymore and now lots of rescues wont even take them in, its heart breaking but sadly seems to be no change, bloody chavs breedin dogs to make quick cash and not giving a s**t about what will happen to their pups.
Soz to rant but as you maybe able to tell makes me so angry and something i feel raell stongly about.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, STOP BREEDING STAFFS FOR THE SHEAR HELL OF IT.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

My girl is speyed!!!!

As are all my dogs now.
I did breed Yorkies, 20 years ago, and Sibes nearly 13yrs ago.
I woulnd't breed any breed of dog now there are just too many out there.

Mind you I was seriously tempted by a boston terrier bitch I saw at a mouse show, she wasnt' for sale however, until I was told she was an 'import' and cost over £2000!!!!!


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I was browsing the battersea dogs home pages today and looking at what there is needing a home. Out of the 127 on the page. Would you believe a whopping 65 are staffies or staffy crosses, including a litter of puppies.
> This sort of thing is what makes me wonder why staffie owners still want to breed their dogs. I love staffies but if I had a bitch I'd never breed her because of the problems finding excellent permanent homes.
> Dogs - Battersea Dogs & Cats Home


Excellent point.
ive also caused ripples about this in the past. breeding for the sake of money or because you think your bitch "needs" a litter isnt a good enough reason. And continuous breeding of a particular breed when rescues and sanctuarys are over run with those dogs is plain disgusting.
ENOUGH!!! this selfishness makes me so angry.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Its nothing new staffies have been suffering for quite a while now. Homes are FULL to the brim with them right now.

Marina


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

It breaks my heart to think about all the staffies in rescue centre knowing how family orientated the breed are. They love being around people and I bet they dont adjust too well being in kennels. I bought mine from a breeder because I wanted a health tested puppy and know its background since it was my first staffy. Now I would not hesitate to get a rescue staffy. I have been offered money to stud my dog but would not do it because I dont want to add to the problem. There are some dogs from fine pedigree backgrounds being put to sleep daily.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Just to add in a pet store in Doncaster a breed rescue had put up a poster about the plight of staffies. It said in the weeks before christmas the dog warden had taken in 63 staffies. 40 of them were PTS. Then from one street alone they took in 3 litters of staffies from 3 different houses. Nearly all of them had to be PTS. It disgusts me that people have no regard for living things and keep churning out puppies.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

In Lancs/Merseyside the rescues are all full with 6 month waiting lists and most of them are Staffs/Staff crosses.Its sickening isnt it:devil:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

yes I find it very very sad that they just love humans so much and seem to need close contact.
Last year, when I came out from shopping in Aldo, one had been tied up to a post in the carpark and just left. He was very scared and attempted to bite some woman who wanyted to pet him. She stated that I shouldn't go near him as he was 'savage'. It was freezing cold out and so I took off my coat and placed it on the concrete and told him 'On your bed' and he went and laid on it. Then I sat with him, initially not looking at him or touching him, but just talking. After an hour he lay pressed against my side. Every time a woman walked by, he sat up looking expectantly, then lay down with a sigh when it wasn't his mum. The chaps in the tyre fitting place next to where he was said that they saw a woman walk past with the dog, some 2 hours prior to me coming out to my car and seeing him tied up. Poor old sod.It broke my heart. I sat with him for 2 hours in all and eventually the dog warden came and took him to the pound and I have no doubt he didn't get rehomed since in his fear, he snarled and struggled as he was put in the back of the van.
Staffies sometimes don't deserve the kinds of people who have them.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> Just to add in a pet store in Doncaster a breed rescue had put up a poster about the plight of staffies. It said in the weeks before christmas the dog warden had taken in 63 staffies. 40 of them were PTS. Then from one street alone they took in 3 litters of staffies from 3 different houses. Nearly all of them had to be PTS. It disgusts me that people have no regard for living things and keep churning out puppies.


 Even as a breeder, the plight of the breed upsets me.But then the kinds of dogs I breed, don't have an image and tend to go to nice families or retired people.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Something needs to be done about it but I haven't a clue what could be done. I just hope one day I win the lottery so I can open my own staffy rescue centre.: victory:


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Anyone who is breeding random (not pedigree) dogs is irresponcible and adding to this problem.

Anyone who still thinks that their bitch must have a litter before spaying is adding to this problem

Anyone who doesnt neuter their pet and then does not guard their welbeing during a season is adding to this problem.


Marina


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> Something needs to be done about it but I haven't a clue what could be done. I just hope one day I win the lottery so I can open my own staffy rescue centre.: victory:


I think there should be some kind of law whereby breeders are always responsible for the puppies they breed for the whole of their lifetime. They should have to have all pups microchipped with their details and pay a £50 donation to some kind of central fund or somewhere like Battersea dogs home or the dogs trust, some proper organisation which cares for unwanted dogs.
Perhaps that might put some people off breeding dogs. I would be happy to do this but then I make the new owners sign a form drawn up by may lawyer, agreeing to return it to me if they can't keep it. I get really cross when breeders refuse to take back a dog, saying that they have no room etc. If they had room for a litter, they have room to take one of their pups back.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Shame to see so meny needing homes .The only people that should be breeding staffies are owners of KC reg one.If your staffie is not KC reg or is a staffieX they should not be bred from to add to the problem.Staffies that are KC reg you should buy these if you intend on showing.If it's a family pet you want as we can clearly see there are enough that need homes you should rescue one.IMO non KC reg dogs in general and mongrels should be castrated/spayed by law.And if for what ever reason you breed two differant pure breeds to gether the offsping should be castrated/spayed also after all they won't be KC reg either.IMO you should need some kind of breeding permint or somthing'etc to breed your dog.But in a real world just to hard to pull off.I'm wondering how much press maybe the course of meny needing homes.For example say a family member buys a staffie.Week later there a out of perporsion story in the paper of them tagging a staffie as a blood thersty pitbull that attacks people due to there history.Then head of the house beleave the hype that the papers wrote and the Staffie has to go.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

the trouble is that you can't force people to take on an unknown adult staff from rescue, especially if they aren't experienced dog owners or have children or other pets.That could be a recipe for disaster. Families with say, other pet dogs or cats, might be more confident about getting a puppy to bring up with the other pets and teach it to respect them, than a large adult male staff which may have a history of cat killing or fighting but which might not be known.
Before I got my Ursa, I wanted another large breed dog and was even considering getting a Rottweiler. I would not have contemplated getting an adult rottie from rescue as I have to consider my little dogs and my cats safety. Had Ursa not come along as a pup, I would have bought a Rottweiler puppy from a reputable breeder.
I'm not sure what the answer is to all the many staffies, rotties and the like in rescue kennels. Banning breeding crossbreds won't help. In fact if you look at the battersea page, hardly any of them are crossbred dogs in any case and none small pretty little crossbreds like my puppies.
In fact many of the people who are to become my puppies new mums and dads, had already searched high and low for a small crossbreed. One is coming from Warwickshire for her puppy which is flipping miles away from me. Tell them that they shouldn't be buying a small fluffy tiny pup, but that they should be getting a rescue staffy cross and I think that they'd say they would not have any dog at all in that case.
Staffies are just too cheap I think. I see loads advertised locally for as little as £150 which is why they get bought by low income people on a whim. If there was a compulsory minimum price of say £600. I bet they wouldn't be half as popular.
I mean, how many boxers,giant schnauzers, and the other expensive breeds, do you see in rescue compared to staffies? It must be cost based surely. They are too cheap to buy and someone on low income who buys a bitch then thinks they can make a bit of money if they breed.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

The situation is exactly the same at the Newcastle pound. When we were there before Christmas over half of the couple of hundred dogs were staffies.

I don't think they do do well in kennels at all. Most were very loud and bouncy and I'm sure it must put visitors off. The shelter even have a page on their website putting the case for staffies being great family pets. Staffie's

Sadly there are a lot of people in our society who want something for nothing and they probably see churning out litter after litter as a way to make cash without having to work for it. I can't see an answer to it, but perhaps with people having less cash to spend it might stop being as profitable for them. More likely though they'll just move on to another breed they think they can make more from. There seem to be a lot of husky types around here all of a sudden.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

gazz said:


> Shame to see so meny needing homes .The only people that should be breeding staffies are owners of KC reg one.If your staffie is not KC reg or is a staffieX they should not be bred from to add to the problem.Staffies that are KC reg you should buy these if you intend on showing.If it's a family pet you want as we can clearly see there are enough that need homes you should rescue one.IMO non KC reg dogs in general and mongrels should be castrated/spayed by law.And if for what ever reason you breed two differant pure breeds to gether the offsping should be castrated/spayed also after all they won't be KC reg either.IMO you should need some kind of breeding permint or somthing'etc to breed your dog.But in a real world just to hard to pull off.I'm wondering how much press maybe the course of meny needing homes.For example say a family member buys a staffie.Week later there a out of perporsion story in the paper of them tagging a staffie as a blood thersty pitbull that attacks people due to there history.Then head of the house beleave the hype that the papers wrote and the Staffie has to go.


I think you would be suprised at how many KC registered staffies end up in rescues. There are a hell of alot of good pedigree dogs being destroyed every day.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

fenwoman said:


> the trouble is that you can't force people to take on an unknown adult staff from rescue, especially if they aren't experienced dog owners or have children or other pets.That could be a recipe for disaster. Families with say, other pet dogs or cats, might be more confident about getting a puppy to bring up with the other pets and teach it to respect them, than a large adult male staff which may have a history of cat killing or fighting but which might not be known.
> Before I got my Ursa, I wanted another large breed dog and was even considering getting a Rottweiler. I would not have contemplated getting an adult rottie from rescue as I have to consider my little dogs and my cats safety. Had Ursa not come along as a pup, I would have bought a Rottweiler puppy from a reputable breeder.
> I'm not sure what the answer is to all the many staffies, rotties and the like in rescue kennels. Banning breeding crossbreds won't help. In fact if you look at the battersea page, hardly any of them are crossbred dogs in any case and none small pretty little crossbreds like my puppies.
> In fact many of the people who are to become my puppies new mums and dads, had already searched high and low for a small crossbreed. One is coming from Warwickshire for her puppy which is flipping miles away from me. Tell them that they shouldn't be buying a small fluffy tiny pup, but that they should be getting a rescue staffy cross and I think that they'd say they would not have any dog at all in that case.
> ...


I think I paid around £550 for mine. He was the colour I wanted and had ll the relavnt health checks and was local to me. I think the ones for £150 will be the random bred, not health tested nt particularly good pedigree ones. I think the Staffy breed clubs and Kennel Club could take a some action maybe not registering Staff puppies for a certain amount of time or placing more endorsements on the puppies.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Tell them that they shouldn't be buying a small fluffy tiny pup, but that they should be getting a rescue staffy cross and I think that they'd say they would not have any dog at all in that case.


I only ment if they had a staffie in mind not that every should be forced to get a rescue staffie or staffieX.People are ofcourse free to own what breed or cross breed/mongrel they want.And yes if they get a older dog for the benifit of the possible future owner/s and ofcourse the dog there life style has to click.Just that if your thinking of buying a staffie KC or not.Ask your self if you can help a rescue staffie first.




fenwoman said:


> Staffies are just too cheap I think. I see loads advertised locally for as little as £150 which is why they get bought by low income people on a whim. If there was a compulsory minimum price of say £600. I bet they wouldn't be half as popular.


You may very well be right about the price thing.Looking through the rescue staffies i don't see one BLUE staffie.Maybe somthing to do with they cost between £500 to £800 each to buy.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I was surprised when I started looking how many Jack Russels there were too. No breed seems to be immune though. One of the smaller rescues near me even has an afghan in at the moment!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> I think I paid around £550 for mine. He was the colour I wanted and had ll the relavnt health checks and was local to me. I think the ones for £150 will be the random bred, not health tested nt particularly good pedigree ones. I think the Staffy breed clubs and Kennel Club could take a some action maybe not registering Staff puppies for a certain amount of time or placing more endorsements on the puppies.


 I dunno though. Endorsements won't stop them being bred. And the breeders will just register them with that silly DLRC in order to say they are registered. I agree that the £150 ones won't be well bred etc, any more than the GSD and Rotties you see for around the same price.
Not sure the KC or breed clubs would have any influence on the breeders who poke out £150 pups. I think there should be more done in law to force breeders to be responsible for the pups they breed and I think perhaps that making it law that each pup has to be microchipped and innoculated before it gets sold, might make some peopple hesistate before breeding. 
I don't know what the answer is but it still upsets me when I see so many in rescue, then still see people advertising staff puppies for sale.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

vonnie said:


> I was surprised when I started looking how many Jack Russels there were too.


I wonder how meny staffies and jack's are in rescue now coz of what happen recently.


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## blaze777 (Dec 11, 2008)

I foster staffies and staffy x for a rescue in Richmond. We are only a small rescue and rely on home fosterers, sadly as we are now inundated with dogs that people want rid of, we are now using kennels as well. 

Staffies do not do well in kennels, they rely far too much on human interaction, hence why they usually have a tendency to jump up and bark. Even if it is only to say "Hi, I'm here pick me!"
But as people now seem to think that staffies are too unpredictable to home and so walk past them to the cute fluffy dog next door. 

We have 46 dogs on our books at the moment, whether in kennels or fostered. 23 of these are staffies and staffie x. We are struggling for funds and foster homes. But we refuse to PTS. Soon though there is going to come a time, where we have to say no to these dogs and see them PTS, healthy, fit dogs who have nowhere to go because there are just too many unwanted staffies, and too many kn:censor:bends who want to own them as a status symbol and give them a bad name. 

Something has to be done, or else otherwise there won't be many staffies left.


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## sleepylizard (Feb 20, 2008)

Sadly, the plight of staffies in rescues has been going on for years.

I brought home a staffie after work when i was 19 because hiw owner was taking him to be put down because he was tearing the house up when he was being left alone at the weekends!

Reg was completely obidient and loving y year old, yet they still though it ok to leave him for over 36 hours.

Parents were not keen, but within a week he was sleeping next to their bed. We had hom castrated a month after getting him.

Over the years he has proved himself to be a fantastic dog, loyal, loving and the best companion for my father (they went to work together and Reg got more christmas presents from customers and staff than my dad did).

Reg is now nearly 17, he has a fairly serious heart mumur and is now on medication but he still loves a walk once a day and has a sofa to sleep on most of the day.

Staffs are great family dogs, it is so sad to see so many in rescues.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

When I found Jazz wandering and was almost hit by a car, Then took him straight to vets to scan for a chip, and owner gave a bulls**t excuse. I decided he was staying. Such a lovely gentle Staffie x and he wouldn't have stood a chance in kennels, we kept him. We've had him 1 and a half years now and totally glad that I did. He is the most loving and affectionate dog I could ever have wished for. And hubby had secretly wanted a Staffie, he got on great with all our dogs and kids.


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## ownedbyroxy (Jan 27, 2009)

i've seen many more dogs in rescue than i have bitches. it's horrible to say, but to some people (not me) dogs are more worthless than bitches. 
its a vicious cycle, a pup is born, bred from and her pups end up in rescue. people will breed regardless of endorsements, esp those dogs bred for a purpose - i.e HPR / or guide dogs, search and rescue etc. 
but i strongly feel all dog owners who intend to breed should have a form of license - what happened to the dog license?? i.e you pay x amount a yr to have a lic so u can breed. a decent dog owner would accept this. it may cut down on so many unwanted dogs and backyard breeders. 
and as has been mentioned before, if one of your pups need to come back to you - you take it!!!! 
its a sad fact of life - there are plenty of greedy folks about, all money money money. :devil:


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

i cant give one a home but i normally volunteer down there might go later today : victory:


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

I have a staffie DAISY and she isnt being bred from she is gorgeous and this is her forever home


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I was browsing the battersea dogs home pages today and looking at what there is needing a home. Out of the 127 on the page. Would you believe a whopping 65 are staffies or staffy crosses, including a litter of puppies.
> This sort of thing is what makes me wonder why staffie owners still want to breed their dogs. I love staffies but if I had a bitch I'd never breed her because of the problems finding excellent permanent homes.
> Dogs - Battersea Dogs & Cats Home


I have seen this, and been there as well. Every new enclosure you get to...another staffy. Plus staffy crosses, english bull terrier crosses, rottie crosses, akita crosses...trendy gang culture breeds basically, although I know that obviously all those breeds make lovely family dogs with responsible people.

I knew of someone in my last animal care course, their family had several bull breeds eg staffy, dogue de bordeaux, american bulldog...and were breeding the staffy. cabn't help feeling it's the status thing of owning a pack of dogs especially big bull breeds...and I KNOW genuine people have them, but I tend to see people as being more genuine if they actually understand the animals they have and don't breed them like this. You just know it's going to be untested, and of course totally unecessary. I hear of people doing it all the time....and it's annoying. I have quoted the battersea dog's home story a few times myself. Doesn't work though!

Thing is not everyone likes staffies that much, including me- just not my kind of dog. Usually in a rescue centre there is variety, something for everyone, at least over time....not just staffy after staffy after staffy....


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

staffies are sold relativly cheep £150-£250 which may be why there is more in pounds etc but how many £1000 chihuahuas or st bernards do you see in there, its a shame as they are lovely dogs all dogs are it just depends on the owners if i have ever had to rehome a dog i have always found a home for it, i could never put on in kennels it would break my heart.


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## spikes n scales (Jul 22, 2008)

My partner wasn't too keen on getting a staffy, because of how the typical type of staffy owner is seen. We wouldn't buy from a breeder, because of all the dogs that need rehoming. We ended up deciding to get a staffy because of how many we saw that needed rehoming though. If it wasn't for us seeing an advert for our staffy, saying that she would be put down if they couldn't have found a home, then we would have got one from a rehoming centre, we had even signed up with them ready.

Why go buying a puppy from a breeder anyway, when it isn't going to stay a puppy for long?! It is so unfair for the dogs. There are too many that are bought as puppies as presents and are got rid of when they get older. Ours is about a year old, we are thinking that ours would have been bought as a Christmas present last year.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

spikes n scales said:


> Why go buying a puppy from a breeder anyway, when it isn't going to stay a puppy for long?! It is so unfair for the dogs. There are too many that are bought as puppies as presents and are got rid of when they get older. Ours is about a year old, we are thinking that ours would have been bought as a Christmas present last year.


The reason I bought a puppy is because I wanted a health tested Staffy, clear of L-2-HGA and hereditory cataracts. It was important to me that I could have a good idea about its background too. I wold get a rescue now I have a bit of experience with the breed though.:2thumb:


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## Mirf (May 22, 2008)

I got my gorgeous boy last March. He was just 12 months old but we were his fifth owners! Dozer loves everyone and everything and his best friend is the 6 month old kitten up the road. Staffies have always been my favourite breed of dog (such wonderful characters) and it breaks my heart that so many are being bred and subsequently dumped.


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

It's ALL rescue centres, The RSPCA in bishop auckland near me is at bursting point with staffys and staffy x's

Staffys were Very popular and now people aren't as 'into' them as before.

In other words, the staffy phase has past, it'll be another breed soon 

It's sad but dog breeds come in and out of fashion just like many other things.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Bull breeds are very close to my heart.

I have fostered a few now and have had no problems with any of them. 

A decent rescue will assess every dog with other dogs, cats, children when possible so no rescue would expect anyone to take on a unknown dog.

I have worked with these dogs for a few years now and I have found them to be the most loving and forgiving, especially after what some of them have been through at the hands of humans.

My view is a breeding ban needs to be put in place to restrict all breeding of bull breeds. Whislt something is sorted out to regulate the breeding and the type of homes these dogs end up in.
Because unless something is done the amount of bull breeds going into pounds and rescues and not coming out again will continue to rise.

Anyone breeding these dogs in this current climate is only adding to the problem.

I have spent a few years now having to look into kennels at faces, then I have had to walk away knowing no matter how hard I try allot of those dogs would never get out again. It broke my heart and still does. I want to see the day when pounds are empty of these dogs and vast numbers dont sit in rescues waiting for someone to love them.

Maybe if the people breeding them had to be there for the dogs at the end and hold them in there arms whilst they are distroyed some would re think breeding them. 

This little man I named Captin Jack, as you might be able to see from the picture the left side of his head is slightly caved in and he has lost the sight of his eye due to a head trauma.








Thankfully he did get out.

Little Hope who really didnt have anything left, she was a very sick girl who had nearly given up. But after vet treatment and allot of time and love she recovered and is living happily in Wales.









Mia came into the pound in a horrific state, she was covered in scars.
I asked allot of rescues for help with this girl, no one would take her as they kept telling me she was a fighting dog or had been used on badgers.
It turned out she had been the bait dog for other bull breeds to train on. And I eventually got her a place with a rescue in Cumbria. 









These are just a couple of cases, there are so many more, so many more who wont be leaving the pound and ever knowing what love really is.


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## helenhearn (Nov 6, 2008)

Hi
We have had staffies for the last 40yrs although we never bred from any of ours, they are one of the most loyal and fun dogs to own, after having my last bitch put down I decided to get a rescue dog after hearing from a friend how many are in battersea dogs home
We now have a 3yr bitch which has been used as a puppy machine,the vet thinks prob 3 litters she had never been for a walk having been kept in a yard on concrete terrified of everything that moved, six months later she is a different dog loves going to the stables good with horses other dogs, she is just lovely very gentle.
she is black and white and is the biggest bitch that my vet has ever seen her chest is so broad looks like a bulldog's front
We have called her LuLu and love her to bits so glad we could give her a home.
Helen


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## Claire&Aimee-Leigh (Mar 16, 2008)

i really couldnt agree more with what has been said.
because of this thread
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/251597-ayone-help.html

we have a staffy here who we were only intending to foster but he is such a wonderful boy that we have decided to adopt him and keep him here.
we were intending to get a DDB from a breeder but when we saw this guy we knew we had found the dog we wanted 
so now we have a wonderful amazing staffy 
and he has a brand new life long loving home.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

It makes me wonder how some people can sleep at night. These poor dogs are treated like the enemy. Its nice to hear of some happy endings though


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I was browsing the battersea dogs home pages today and looking at what there is needing a home. Out of the 127 on the page. Would you believe a whopping 65 are staffies or staffy crosses, including a litter of puppies.
> This sort of thing is what makes me wonder why staffie owners still want to breed their dogs. I love staffies but if I had a bitch I'd never breed her because of the problems finding excellent permanent homes.
> Dogs - Battersea Dogs & Cats Home


 This dosnt supprise me at all as where i keep my horse they have a council kennils attached and most of the dogs in there last time i wasin were staffy and staffy crosses i counted 15 on my last visit......its a shame because in the right hands staffs are lovely dogs....


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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)

*staffie*


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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)




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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)

thats my girl, just worked out how to post pics :2thumb:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

And what a pretty girl she is:flrt:


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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)

she is a kc registered pedigree, from a champion bloodline, she is 18months old now


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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)




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## ian wilson (Nov 24, 2006)




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## kerrie (May 29, 2006)

ive had people in the street ask me if they can use my boy as at stud Ive always said no, its amazing how many people havent herd of L2 and HC testing 9times out of 10 their bitches arnt even KC reg'ed, he has a great pedigree (both his parents are champs)to pass on to his offspring and an even better temperment but I just feel its not right to be breeding staffies at the moment unless for show


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## denny2 (Jul 27, 2008)

kerrie said:


> ive had people in the street ask me if they can use my boy as at stud Ive always said no, its amazing how many people havent herd of L2 and HC testing 9times out of 10 their bitches arnt even KC reg'ed, he has a great pedigree (both his parents are champs)to pass on to his offspring and an even better temperment but I just feel its not right to be breeding staffies at the moment unless for show


 Its a shame everyone with dogs dosnt think like this (and i mean everyone) there must be millions of puppies bred every year and sadly a good many of them end up in rescues or are PTS because they are sold to crap homes, BUT when theres money to be made in selling puppies the indiscriminate breeding will continue, its a shame because its ruins breeds and condems many to appalling lives owned by appalling people. Good on you Kerrie for saying No...:2thumb:


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Virtually every pure bred dog can claim champion bloodlines - if they are not directly first or second generation back they are meaningless.


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

kerrie said:


> ive had people in the street ask me if they can use my boy as at stud Ive always said no, its amazing how many people havent herd of L2 and HC testing 9times out of 10 their bitches arnt even KC reg'ed, he has a great pedigree (both his parents are champs)to pass on to his offspring and an even better temperment but I just feel its not right to be breeding staffies at the moment unless for show



Personally I couldn't give a poo whether they are KC reg. I think it's an over-used phrase. It is implying the only dog that should be bred is one that fits the Kennel Club standard best, and is the most physically attractive and successful at showing- is that the only reason people buy a dog? Is that the only kind of dog that is worthy of life? That _is_ what you are implying. If it weren't for deliberate in breeding of unhealthy dogs for the purpose of making and maintaining pedigree dogs then the illnesses dogs have wouldn't be round in the first place. however I am not anti-pedigree. I can see people's reasoning- stop letting every little 'unimportant' dog breed indiscriminately- but there is no reason why people could not breed non-pedigree/non-registered/pet dogs while testing the parents and not being in it for the money and following other guidelines etc. 

The Kennel club standards and showing are something that people _choose_ to adhere to, kind of like a hobby, but have become like God. They might publish breed standards but they don't own rights to breeds. I have heard many people say that the kennel club standard IS the breed, and a dog that looks a bit different or is unregistered is not a proper one, even if it's not been outcrossed. Even if it's actually a case of modern trends causing the show-dog appearance to change rather than the other way round. Standards allow this to happen because they are vague and artistic descriptions of appearance, nothing more, so champion dog status is only an acheivement in your eyes, it may not mean anything in reality. On a list of 'should i breed my dog' whether they can win beauty contests should be last. First should be health, next temperament, suitability as pet, then achievements with training etc... From experience it just means a given animal is the most 'extreme' version, the apparent 'epitome', but that's not always good. gradually they contribute the worst genes, not the best ones until you've completely wrecked the animal...ok, maybe not with staffies as yet, but it CAN happen. I am not inferring you are uncaring or irresponsible in any way, I am bashing the kind of opinion you have, in general, rather than you.


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

spikes n scales said:


> My partner wasn't too keen on getting a staffy, because of how the typical type of staffy owner is seen. We wouldn't buy from a breeder, because of all the dogs that need rehoming. We ended up deciding to get a staffy because of how many we saw that needed rehoming though. If it wasn't for us seeing an advert for our staffy, saying that she would be put down if they couldn't have found a home, then we would have got one from a rehoming centre, we had even signed up with them ready.
> 
> Why go buying a puppy from a breeder anyway, when it isn't going to stay a puppy for long?! It is so unfair for the dogs. There are too many that are bought as puppies as presents and are got rid of when they get older. Ours is about a year old, we are thinking that ours would have been bought as a Christmas present last year.


That's why I don't get. people only want to buy a puppy or kitten...but what do they think a puppy or kitten actually is in the making? Duh...Surely that highlights to them a flaw in their commitments? ie as soon as it grows up it'll be boring?


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Skyespirit86 said:


> Personally I couldn't give a poo whether they are KC reg. I think it's an over-used phrase. It is implying the only dog that should be bred is one that fits the Kennel Club standard best, and is the most physically attractive and successful at showing- is that the only reason people buy a dog? Is that the only kind of dog that is worthy of life? That _is_ what you are implying. If it weren't for deliberate in breeding of unhealthy dogs for the purpose of making and maintaining pedigree dogs then the illnesses dogs have wouldn't be round in the first place. however I am not anti-pedigree. I can see people's reasoning- stop letting every little 'unimportant' dog breed indiscriminately- but there is no reason why people could not breed non-pedigree/non-registered/pet dogs while testing the parents and not being in it for the money and following other guidelines etc.
> 
> The Kennel club standards and showing are something that people _choose_ to adhere to, kind of like a hobby, but have become like God. They might publish breed standards but they don't own rights to breeds. I have heard many people say that the kennel club standard IS the breed, and a dog that looks a bit different or is unregistered is not a proper one, even if it's not been outcrossed. Even if it's actually a case of modern trends causing the show-dog appearance to change rather than the other way round. Standards allow this to happen because they are vague and artistic descriptions of appearance, nothing more, so champion dog status is only an acheivement in your eyes, it may not mean anything in reality. On a list of 'should i breed my dog' whether they can win beauty contests should be last. First should be health, next temperament, suitability as pet, then achievements with training etc... From experience it just means a given animal is the most 'extreme' version, the apparent 'epitome', but that's not always good. gradually they contribute the worst genes, not the best ones until you've completely wrecked the animal...ok, maybe not with staffies as yet, but it CAN happen. I am not inferring you are uncaring or irresponsible in any way, I am bashing the kind of opinion you have, in general, rather than you.


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

I have to admit, after a quick look at Cornish rescue centres they don't seem indundated at present although I do think the staffies/jack russels are probably extremely common. Maybe it's worse round bigger cities. Just take a look at this centre:

Bath Cats and Dogs Home - Search Results

About 90% of dogs for rehoming are staffy/staffy cross, jack russell and rottweiler. Other breeds are the usual lab/collie/GSD which of course are also overbred. A couple of greyhounds...same old same old isn't it?

And does anyone find this slightly disconcerting? Is it arottie or a GSD? http://www.bathcatsanddogshome.org.uk/animaldetails.asp?ID=2201

There are some really nice dogs at this rescue, some really sweet: http://www.bathcatsanddogshome.org.uk/animaldetails.asp?ID=2096


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Skyespirit86 said:


> That's why I don't get. people only want to buy a puppy or kitten...but what do they think a puppy or kitten actually is in the making? Duh...Surely that highlights to them a flaw in their commitments? ie as soon as it grows up it'll be boring?


No it's about knowing what has happened to a dog during its formative months. If I want a dog to work and compete with, I buy a puppy from appropriate lines. I wouldn't buy one that might have all kinds of issues to deal with from a miss spent youth. People want to bond with and raise their own dog, to familiarise it with the kind of things it might meet in the environment it will live in. There are critical stages in the development of a puppy and getting it right during these stages can make a huge difference in how a dog will behave later in life.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Skyespirit86 said:


> Personally I couldn't give a poo whether they are KC reg. I think it's an over-used phrase. It is implying the only dog that should be bred is one that fits the Kennel Club standard best, and is the most physically attractive and successful at showing- is that the only reason people buy a dog? Is that the only kind of dog that is worthy of life? That _is_ what you are implying. If it weren't for deliberate in breeding of unhealthy dogs for the purpose of making and maintaining pedigree dogs then the illnesses dogs have wouldn't be round in the first place. however I am not anti-pedigree. I can see people's reasoning- stop letting every little 'unimportant' dog breed indiscriminately- but there is no reason why people could not breed non-pedigree/non-registered/pet dogs while testing the parents and not being in it for the money and following other guidelines etc.
> 
> The Kennel club standards and showing are something that people _choose_ to adhere to, kind of like a hobby, but have become like God. They might publish breed standards but they don't own rights to breeds. I have heard many people say that the kennel club standard IS the breed, and a dog that looks a bit different or is unregistered is not a proper one, even if it's not been outcrossed. Even if it's actually a case of modern trends causing the show-dog appearance to change rather than the other way round. Standards allow this to happen because they are vague and artistic descriptions of appearance, nothing more, so champion dog status is only an acheivement in your eyes, it may not mean anything in reality. On a list of 'should i breed my dog' whether they can win beauty contests should be last. First should be health, next temperament, suitability as pet, then achievements with training etc... From experience it just means a given animal is the most 'extreme' version, the apparent 'epitome', but that's not always good. gradually they contribute the worst genes, not the best ones until you've completely wrecked the animal...ok, maybe not with staffies as yet, but it CAN happen. I am not inferring you are uncaring or irresponsible in any way, I am bashing the kind of opinion you have, in general, rather than you.


I always thought it was the breed clubs and organisations that worked with the KC to decide what was breed standard? I think people decide to buy a breed of dog so they know roughly what its going to look like when it is older, have a good idea of its general temperament and will be aware of any potential health problems. Buying a non pedigree dog is fine but you wont know its history and breeding.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Andy said:


> I always thought it was the breed clubs and organisations that worked with the KC to decide what was breed standard? I think people decide to buy a breed of dog so they know roughly what its going to look like when it is older, have a good idea of its general temperament and will be aware of any potential health problems. Buying a non pedigree dog is fine but you wont know its history and breeding.


The problem is that show breeders breed to a particular shape of dog, their aim being to win shows and gain a good reputation in the world of dogs. In every litter born, how many end up in show homes? the vast majority of dogs in the UK are pets and the primary concern should be breeding dogs fit for that purpose. Unfortunately show breeders breed for success in the show ring and those puppies who don't make the grade are seen as second rate and sold into pet homes.


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

Andy said:


> I always thought it was the breed clubs and organisations that worked with the KC to decide what was breed standard? I think people decide to buy a breed of dog so they know roughly what its going to look like when it is older, have a good idea of its general temperament and will be aware of any potential health problems. Buying a non pedigree dog is fine but you wont know its history and breeding.



Again all that you've just said is textbook explanations. In reality very few kennel club registered breeders test properly. The KC registers 45,000 new labradors each year, yet only 60,000 dogs have ever actually been tested for hip dysplasia.

It is irrelevant if the breed clubs work with the KC, they are primarily based on showing and appearance. They can be just as unscrupulous if not more so, because some members are obsessed with the showing/breeding hobby side of things. And will literally go to any lengths. Someone external and unnafected by the appearance and showing of dogs needs to be the one to help. Eg the RSPCA/ Thankfully the kennel club are now in a lot of trouble and there'll be no crufts on the bbc this year. It looks like people are so determined that they really cannot worm out of it or fob people off in any way anymore...eg they attempted rewriting the whole load of standards in a month to impress people and show how committed they are...but it was just a way of fooling people, so hopefully they can keep their contract with the bbc and air crufts in march. It didn't work I don't think.

There is little difference between a non-registered dobermann for instance and a KC one, except minor refinements and if you're not showing, probably don't matter at all. The fact it is isn't registered isn't going to turn a dobermann puppy into a poodle. Many people enjoy on the other hand seeing their crossbred puppy develop into something uncertain. General temperament is of course very general. People may find living with a breed or an individual of the breed very different to anything they really expected if they are inexperienced...may be better may be worse. You can judge a crossbreed dog on it's temperament anyway by seeing how responsive, calm/lively, bullying etc it is round you, round cats, round its littermates. You can see one or both of the parents as a guide...How can you tell a KC breeder is breeding dogs with good temperaments just because they are pure pedigrees?

As for beingaware of potential health problems! very unlikely! Like I said, winning is more important for most,health problems even if known are often brushed under the carpet. And what is 'awareness' anyway, what good does it do? So people look up bulldogs and find out they're so unhealthy...so they know...and still buy one. And do most everyday people actually do research for their pet dog? Most people have a clue what Hip dysplasia is, or if they have heard of the problem think it's just German Shepherds or something- no knowledge at all.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Skyespirit86 said:


> Personally I couldn't give a poo whether they are KC reg. I think it's an over-used phrase. It is implying the only dog that should be bred is one that fits the Kennel Club standard best, and is the most physically attractive and successful at showing- is that the only reason people buy a dog? Is that the only kind of dog that is worthy of life? That _is_ what you are implying. If it weren't for deliberate in breeding of unhealthy dogs for the purpose of making and maintaining pedigree dogs then the illnesses dogs have wouldn't be round in the first place. however I am not anti-pedigree. I can see people's reasoning- stop letting every little 'unimportant' dog breed indiscriminately- but there is no reason why people could not breed non-pedigree/non-registered/pet dogs while testing the parents and not being in it for the money and following other guidelines etc.
> 
> The Kennel club standards and showing are something that people _choose_ to adhere to, kind of like a hobby, but have become like God. They might publish breed standards but they don't own rights to breeds. I have heard many people say that the kennel club standard IS the breed, and a dog that looks a bit different or is unregistered is not a proper one, even if it's not been outcrossed. Even if it's actually a case of modern trends causing the show-dog appearance to change rather than the other way round. Standards allow this to happen because they are vague and artistic descriptions of appearance, nothing more, so champion dog status is only an acheivement in your eyes, it may not mean anything in reality. On a list of 'should i breed my dog' whether they can win beauty contests should be last. First should be health, next temperament, suitability as pet, then achievements with training etc... From experience it just means a given animal is the most 'extreme' version, the apparent 'epitome', but that's not always good. gradually they contribute the worst genes, not the best ones until you've completely wrecked the animal...ok, maybe not with staffies as yet, but it CAN happen. I am not inferring you are uncaring or irresponsible in any way, I am bashing the kind of opinion you have, in general, rather than you.



I have to fully agree with you on that one.
I believe if a breeding restriction came in cross breeds should be allowed to be bred. 
Most of the Staffie types I have seen in the pound wouldnt be classed as Pure bred because they dont fit the KC breed standards. When infact they are what most people would class as pure Staffies.
I personally dont like the look of allot of the KC reg type staffies, the huge heads on the small stocky bodies. I prefer the pocket type staffies with the smaller head that match the size of the body.

As for Bath cats and dogs home I have delt with them for a number of years, they are one of the best rescues in this country. They take in all manner of dogs and work with them to the point they can be rehomed. They take dogs that allot of other rescues will not touch. And I and many dogs will always be very greatfull to them for it.

You will find there are local council pounds down this way that are always full of Staffies, I know my local one in in Newton Abbot is, along with Rotties and collies. But they wont tell you they distroy the dogs if you were to ask them. Most wont get out and are PTS due to the rescues down here not wanting to take them for one reason or another.
Woodside rescue in Plymouth is very good and does take the odd bull breed when they can, although they always have quite a few looking for homes.


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## kerrie (May 29, 2006)

just cos I love him some pics









Dylan at 12 weeks all legs and ears










Dylan aged one









Dylan aged two


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Skyespirit86 said:


> Again all that you've just said is textbook explanations. In reality very few kennel club registered breeders test properly. The KC registers 45,000 new labradors each year, yet only 60,000 dogs have ever actually been tested for hip dysplasia.
> 
> It is irrelevant if the breed clubs work with the KC, they are primarily based on showing and appearance. They can be just as unscrupulous if not more so, because some members are obsessed with the showing/breeding hobby side of things. And will literally go to any lengths. Someone external and unnafected by the appearance and showing of dogs needs to be the one to help. Eg the RSPCA/ Thankfully the kennel club are now in a lot of trouble and there'll be no crufts on the bbc this year. It looks like people are so determined that they really cannot worm out of it or fob people off in any way anymore...eg they attempted rewriting the whole load of standards in a month to impress people and show how committed they are...but it was just a way of fooling people, so hopefully they can keep their contract with the bbc and air crufts in march. It didn't work I don't think.
> 
> ...


Every arguement there against the KC and pedigree dogs could be used for any other breeders to be fair. You seem to have a bee in your bonnett about the Kennel Club for some reason and pedigree dogs. You dont have to have a pedigree dog for it to be a good pet just the same as cross breeds can be bad pets.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Andy said:


> Every arguement there against the KC and pedigree dogs could be used for any other breeders to be fair. You seem to have a bee in your bonnett about the Kennel Club for some reason and pedigree dogs. You dont have to have a pedigree dog for it to be a good pet just the same as cross breeds can be bad pets.


I don't really think it's about bashing breeders or people who show or even the KC. It's about all of the dog world recognising that we have gone wrong and it needs to be put right - with the support of legislation.

We need to look at what functions dogs have in society today and breed accordingly. 
We need to insist that wannabe dog owners are made to jump through a few hoops before they are allowed to own a dog. If they had to attend a class once a week for a few weeks, it would give them time to think, they would be given valuable information about the reality of owning a dog and they would be made aware of their legal and moral obligations. All this could be funded by a proper licensing scheme - pay to do the course to gain your license. 

Breeders should have to undergo much more training. The KC insist that it's judges are properly qualified - why doesn't it make sure its registered breeders are too - after all they are the ones doing the most important job aren't they?

Nothing in these suggestions imposing restrictions on any breed of dog or infringing anyones rights to own a dog.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You just have to look at how many pedigree dogs (including extremely pricey breeds like danes, mastiffs, etc) are being dumped at the moment to see that higher breeder prices dont mean safer dogs. Or that they are better bred.

You dont see chihuahuas and danes and the like in general all breed rescues because they have excellent breed rescues going round collecting them to make sure they're rehomed to homes who know what they're doing with them.

IMO no dog should be bred from unless it is a sterling example of it's breed (I dont mean by show standard - I mean able to do the job they're bred for), with wonderful health and temperament, and health tested.

I find it a bit sad that some people here judge people for breeding staffies, when they condone breeding crossbreeds, which have been by far the most represented type of dog in rescue over the years.

I'd be interested in knowing how much people charge or have been charged for their purpose bred crossbreeds/mongrels if they think cost is in direct relation to whether or not they are cared for. Anything higher than the average rescue rehoming fee (bearing in mind that usually - but not always - includes spaying/neutering, vaccinations, worming and flea treatment plus lifelong back up and most rescues are running on a loss) would be irresponsible, IMO, but then that is just my opinion.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Andy said:


> I always thought it was the breed clubs and organisations that worked with the KC to decide what was breed standard?.



Yes it is and in the case of working dogs form follows function - my main breed Alaskan Malamute - their breed standard calls for a freighting dog - a dog capable of pulling a heavy load over long distance and every part of the breed standard is working towards this - from the small thick ears - to resist frost bit, to a certain length of tail - to cover the nose when the dog curls to sleep at night in sub zero temperatures - to the size - best size for the job required etc etc.



DECENT breeders who work or show their dogs and breed for a reason other than £££ health test their dogs - why wouldn't they - it is not in their best interest they want dogs that can work or look as they should and move forward with the breed - it is the people - of which there are often those posting ads on here - who just want a litter for no apparent reason other than ££ - but give claims of how fabulous their dog is or how all their family wants one - who do not bother testing - these people make up the majority of dogs being bred and they don't want to waste £500 on testing when they are "only pets" - as if pet owners do not also deserve healthy pets ..... beyond belief.

GOOD breeders have waiting lists for their pups and do not need to advertise them or trawl the net advertising looking for random, convenient, cheap local stud dogs - they will travel the World for the right dog to ensure healthy happy puppies.


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> You just have to look at how many pedigree dogs (including extremely pricey breeds like danes, mastiffs, etc) are being dumped at the moment to see that higher breeder prices dont mean safer dogs. Or that they are better bred.
> 
> .



Exactly!

I have done Malamute rescue for several years - amazing the number of people who will pay £900 for a puppy and not want it 3 weeks later .....


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

JulieNoob said:


> Yes it is and in the case of working dogs form follows function - my main breed Alaskan Malamute - their breed standard calls for a freighting dog - a dog capable of pulling a heavy load over long distance and every part of the breed standard is working towards this - from the small thick ears - to resist frost bit, to a certain length of tail - to cover the nose when the dog curls to sleep at night in sub zero temperatures - to the size - best size for the job required etc etc.


OK this is going to come out all wrong and upset you but I'm going to say it anyway. How do those attributes make a suitable pet dog? In reality how many homes can provide this kind of lifstyle for this breed if the above criteria is adhered to? In an average litter of puppies, what percentage will be great show dogs and how many will go to pet homes? 

The best thing to happen to border collies was KC recognition - because the show types happen to be better suited to life as a family pet than a dog bred from working sheepdogs. I don't think for one minute this was intentional - just a fortunate coincidence. 

The trouble is that everyone is defending themselves and blaming the 'bad breeders', who seem unwilling to stand up and be counted. We measure the merit of a breeder based on their success in the show ring, when in reality we should be measuring their success using a different yardstick. How do you measure and publicise a breeders success in this area? A person could have been successfuly breeding nice healthy pet dogs for years and years - but no one would ever give them any credit or kudos because that isn't as 'special' as having a load of red ribbons on the wall.

If I owned a cafe frequented by wagon drivers, I wouldn't have over priced caviar on the menu because that wouldn't be what the majority of my customers want. I might do really well and gain some cooking prizes but my business would go belly up. Dog breeding is the only 'industry' that ignores the needs of its main consumers in the name of trophy hunting.


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## Skyespirit86 (Feb 23, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> You just have to look at how many pedigree dogs (including extremely pricey breeds like danes, mastiffs, etc) are being dumped at the moment to see that higher breeder prices dont mean safer dogs. Or that they are better bred.
> 
> You dont see chihuahuas and danes and the like in general all breed rescues because they have excellent breed rescues going round collecting them to make sure they're rehomed to homes who know what they're doing with them.
> 
> ...


I condone crossbreeds if they are planned, healthy dogs which are bred for a reason. Even if a dog is a 'sterling example of the breed' in that it is a healthy example, why does it HAVE to be a breed? The main thing is that it is bred well and there is a place for it somewhere. 

I think if there are too many dogs, then overbreeding should be stopped for everyone, not just 'top' dog owners because that is flawed and unrealistic as well. There will always be a demand for pet dogs even if you manged to get loads of people to cut back, rescue more...and empty the rescue centres a bit.

I couldn't care less in itself if someone deliberately breeds a 'poochon' or something silly-sounding like that. I do care though that there are millions of dogs already waiting for homes which means it is probably irresponsible of start churning out more. If the poochon's parents were healthy, and it was planned and there weren't loads of perfectly good dogs already around, and they weren't priced something silly to just make money...then I am ok about it. In itself it doesn't matter. There are many many problems with pedigree dogs, so I can't say the only one worth breeding is a purebred. And who's to say a bulldog is worth £1000 just because it's purebred and has a certificate? You could argue it means nothing, except it'll die at half the age a normal dog would and cost you it's original charge in vet bills each year too. 

A dog is a dog at the end of the day. Whether it's a pedigree, top at something, or not. I think people should be able to breed anything they like as long as they are doing all they can to ensure it'll live healthy and to a good age, have a good temperament and will have a home for the its of its life. And isn't just a duplicate of another dog that's sitting in a rescue home somewhere.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

havent read the thread. just the first post.
i have to say that in a village full of ''chavs'' (dont get me wrong there are the normal pet owners out there) every single one has one of them or a cross.. they arent going to keep them for long once they realise they cost money, and take time etc.. they are a very unfortunate fashion excesory *(sp)*


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

kerrie said:


>


What a HUGE smile   So cute!


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Evie said:


> OK this is going to come out all wrong and upset you but I'm going to say it anyway. How do those attributes make a suitable pet dog?


The ones I quoted don't necessarily and Malamutes as I used in my example do not make ideal pets for most people. They are dogs designed for working, however plenty of training and exercise can be a perfecalternative lifestyle for these dogs and since their other function was as furry hot water bottles for the children - they should also have fabulous natures with humans.

Not all dogs are ideal pets for everyone though - I can't imagine living with a Malamute that wasn't worked - mine would be bouncing off the walls!


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

i cant find a jack russel anywere in rescues near me! well only crosses, which look nothing like a jr...im going to yet another rescue on thursday to try and find one, never mind them being too full, i cant find one! if theres anyone local, notts/derbyshire, that knows where there are some small breeds in rescues please let me know


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## shrek090 (Jun 24, 2008)

luke123 said:


> i cant find a jack russel anywere in rescues near me! well only crosses, which look nothing like a jr...im going to yet another rescue on thursday to try and find one, never mind them being too full, i cant find one! if theres anyone local, notts/derbyshire, that knows where there are some small breeds in rescues please let me know


there are a few JRT at www.madsods.com it is a rescue based in derby. 

paul


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