# Stack project for 2008



## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

I've decided to work on a stack this year but slowly. I'm in no rush and I'm just going to be working on it here and there because I'm very busy. It's going to have a height of about 5 ft. The length is mostly 4 ft except the top viv is shorter and provides a spot for one of my small exoterras. It was only earlier today that I decided I would be doing this so my only planning so far has been jotting down the sizes of each enclosure and the size of the whole stack when finished. I've also got a list of things I'm going to need:

- All the wood
- All the glass for doors
- Runners for the doors
- Plastic vents for the back of the vivs
- Screws, tools and sealant etc

Obviously missing out all the rep-specific equipment such as lighting etc.

I'm very inexperienced at DIY and have never built anything like this before, but I'm not stupid and I think I'll be able to do it otherwise I wouldn't bother talking about it. But not being as knowledgeable as the rest of you who have built your own stacks, is there anything I'm forgetting? I've racked my brains and I'm pretty sure my list covers it all. Just thought I would run it by everyone before I started just incase!

If anyone's interested it's going to be a 4x2x2 on the bottom with another 4x2x2 above that and then a 3x2x2 on top of that with a small space for an exoterra glass viv (small). I've got all the dimensions sorted out, I'm just thinking about the materials now.

Cheers.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Screw fix and a guy on ebay sells sealant excruciatingly cheap. Its called HA6 i think but i will double check and get you the link.
As for runners and vents i cant help you there because the guy i got all mine from has ceased trading.
Marina


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

Just shout up if theres anything you need mate, i can get runners, vents and door handles.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

markandwend said:


> Just shout up if theres anything you need mate, i can get runners, vents and door handles.


Thank you, that would be great and I will let you know! Part of me would rather leave the whole thing up to someone like yourself with a great portfolio of vivs but I think it will be quite rewarding to do and since I'm in no rush I think I'm doing the right thing. I'll be working on all the wood first but I'll be in touch to buy some door handles etc from you. I was wondering where I could get the handles :2thumb:


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

I've made a couple of vivs, but I'm hopeless at DIY too. Remember the Nuts magazine add with the woman with the drill. Well thats me!

The only advice I can give really, apart from the obvious, is when measuring, measure it, then measure it ten more times. I made more cock ups from getting dimensions wrong than I did from anything else. I'm also a perfectionist too and found using masking tape I could mark pilot holes for drilling to keep everything straight.

Think of Doc Pepper...whats the worst that can happen?


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for the advice Vase, much appreciated! Did you just dive straight in or look up a website or book for advice?


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## Dostovei (Mar 16, 2008)

Making vivs is not difficult providing you take your time to suit your ability. One bit of advice I can offer from my experiences of home made vivs in addition to the measure, measure and measure again advice above (haha)...is keeping things square. When building bigger vivs/stack set ups in the past everything has been measured perfectly but when working on a larger scale it can be more difficult to keep everything aligned as it should.

Use a set square and spirit level regularly to make sure things are lining up...i.e. if you're after a box then make it a box that has all the right angles. I've never had any major problems with it though you can find for example when you put your glass in that the top or bottom of the sides will not sit tight to the viv. I've never ended up more than 3 or 4 mm from top to bottom of glass but it can be annoying if you're a perfectionist!

a home made VIV can be produced to a higher quality than shop bought efforts in my opinion.

I don't see many people using them for their vivs, but for stability I also add a few Screw FixIt Blocks or Corner Joints, the links may be of use if you're interested

Wickes  – Nails, Screws and Fixings – Hardware – Fixing Blocks and Angles – Fixit Blocks

Wickes  – Nails, Screws and Fixings – Hardware – Fixing Blocks and Angles – Rigid Joint

Just a suggestion of course, by no means a necessity!

Good luck


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Tanks Ash, yeah I have some of them in my current vivs (not built by me). Thanks again for more advice, I did forget to add them to my list!


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

Harrison said:


> Thanks for the advice Vase, much appreciated! Did you just dive straight in or look up a website or book for advice?


Just dove straight in really. I knew what size I wanted it to be so once I worked out the measurements and what materials I needed I hit B&Q. The first cock up was forgetting that 600mm is different to 2ft. But that was sorted with a jigsaw :bash:

Drill pilot holes and if using contiboard and a jigsaw get blades that cut on the downstroke. The one thing that I'm hoping someone can advise you on is how to drill through contiboard without the back chipping as the drill goes through. If you're not using contiboard then no biggy, but it will help you to know. (And me...lol) Check everything loads before cutting, drilling etc and take your time. 

Cant for the life of me remember where I got the runners from but people on here sell that. The wife gets acrylic cut for me on a cnc machine and gets it flame polished, so not only dont I have to fork out for glass, I know its safer.

Hope that helps


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

This is the dude on EBAY that sells the cheap aquarium (marine grade) silicon sealant.

eBay My World - 2006gaz


Marina


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## Dostovei (Mar 16, 2008)

Vase said:


> Drill pilot holes and if using contiboard and a jigsaw *get blades that cut on the downstroke*.


Excellent advice, and similarly if you're doing the cuts with a hand saw then fine and use a downstroke blade but don't apply pressure against the wood on the upstroke as it can damage the blade teeth and give you a messy cut.

As for avoiding making chips when drilling, go slowly and do use pilot holes (start with a smaller drill bit and work up if need be), though to be honest a small pilot hole is normally adequate to prepare for the screw.

Maybe I am being daft and forgetful at the minute but I can't think where you would worry about drill holes chipping contiboard because there is no need to drill fully through any exposed surfaces? any pilot holes will be aligned with a joined board so hide any minor chipping?


ps. I used to buy sealant for my wooden vivs, though I found I did not need it as the screws and blocks would hold things super tightly anyway so there was nothing to seal/no need. All of mine are desert/dry setups though so maybe you have other needs.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Marinam2 said:


> This is the dude on EBAY that sells the cheap aquarium (marine grade) silicon sealant.
> 
> eBay My World - 2006gaz
> 
> ...


Brilliant, thanks Marina!


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

All desert/dry setups for me too but I'll get some sealant anyway just incase. Thanks for all the advice, I've added a lot to my notes. :2thumb:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

me and my OH have had a whale of a time building all of our viv stacks. i have spent extra time on the planning and measurements and even worked out the exact cuts needed by getting all of the contiboard dimensions from b&q website. then i got all of the wood in my trolley, and asked them to cut it to size. this had the added benefit of the man double checking i had measured right , and getting a superfine finnish on the cut with NO rough edges at all. and it all fitted in the car too. the only thing i would suggest is if you are getting contiboard, the finnish from the factory at the edges can be very tatty. allow an inch at each end to get it cut off and make it a much neater more proffesional job.

we used sealant at every joint aswell as lots of those corner blocks. this was for stability and durability and also to protect agains any water spillages in the vivs. we will be moving in a year or two, so i wanted a viv that was strong enough to be moved but would still retain the strength. we also put them on ultra heavy duty catsors for easy moving around. means we can clean underneath them and move them without putting any stress on the joints. it makes it loads easier cos BOY are they heavy!!

even on our first attempt, a 5 viv stack, we didnt have any major problems or glitches. just make sure you join pieces together on a level flat floor or surface. my husband and i didnt realise the rug would cause a discrepancy and the top board of one viv is a few mms out on one side, but i am still thrilled with it for a first attemp. good luck, plan well and you will have a top stack at the end of it!


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for that, makes me feel even better about it. That's good to hear B&Q can actually cut the wood for you there and then. I might do that, save a lot of time and effort really. My tools are crap.


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## Lotus Nut (Jan 7, 2008)

I would suggest building the 3x2x2 separate and not in a stack as its best if all sides and tops are equal measurements, this will also give you some practice making your first viv then move onto the 4x2x2's.
As said above select a level surface for assembly and protect this and conti with several sheets of newspaper.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Lotus Nut said:


> I would suggest building the 3x2x2 separate and not in a stack as its best if all sides and tops are equal measurements, this will also give you some practice making your first viv then move onto the 4x2x2's.
> As said above select a level surface for assembly and protect this and conti with several sheets of newspaper.


I actually have a 3x2x2 ready so what I'm going to do is make a double stack with two 4x2x2 vivs and then attach the 3x2x2 on top. It will leave space at the side (just...) for a small exo terra or anything else that may be useful up there.

So I've just realized this will probably be easier than I thought. How hard can a double stack be? I've not done any research yet but this is how I think I'll do it after getting everything cut:

1. Get floor, ceiling and sides stuck together (nails etc)
2. Add next floor for the top viv. (like a middle shelf)
3. Add front bits (you know what I mean) for both vivs
4. Add the back
5. Cut holes for equipment and vents etc (no idea how I'm going to get a cirlce cut yet)
6. Use corner blocks in the vivs.
7. Attach runners
8. Insert glass

That's how I see it going in my head... Anything blatantly obvious I've missed?

Has anyone seen a good "How To" tutorial or guide for building vivs and stacks anywhere on the net? Might help if I see the process first.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

you can get a circular drill bit in b and q that will cut an exact round hole for your vents. take the vent with you and they will make sure you get the right one. OR get square vents from wilkinsons that open and close and drill four holes and cut a squarefrom hole to hole. loads of options!!


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## Lotus Nut (Jan 7, 2008)

INfo sent..!

For cleaner holes place scrap piece of wood under where hole is to be drilled making sure its flat against wood and this should reduce splintering.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks again! Wow, I think I could build this today with all of the help I'm getting :2thumb:

Only other thing I can think of asking is about the width of the panels. My other vivs have wood which is about 1.8 cm thick. Now, I assume that kind of size would be fine for my stack but I thought I'd double check because of added weight. It's only a double and the heaviest stuff will be on the bottom viv so would I get away with wood that thick or would it need to be thicker? To make measurements easier, I would be getting 2 cm thick, not 1.8 cm (unless you advise me to go with thicker stuff!).


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## ratking (Mar 4, 2008)

just a note u can get ur round vents from b&q £4 for a four pack and u need a 70mm hole saw to put them in b&q do these but there expensive look around tool shops there chaeper also for your wood try a timmber yard as its cheaper and b&q charge 50p after the first 2 cuts (and they carnt cut it right) also dont nail it together get proper conti board screws much better and cheaper check aquatic plases for runners sealent some stock it handles can be bought from som rep shops if your stuck i can get em £2 posted


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah I went and had a look at the contiboard at B&Q. It was more expensive than I thought it would be but it'll do. The white is half the price of the maple so I might go with that because it looks very clean and would save me a bundle (which could go towards equipment).

B&Q have a brilliant deal on right now on this other stuff though, fibrewood or something. It's just as thick. Has anyone used it and know what it's like? If it's strong enough, I'd love to get it and paint it because it would be great value for money.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

fiberwood is MDF and a lot of people use it and seal it with yacht varnish.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Meko said:


> fiberwood is MDF and a lot of people use it and seal it with yacht varnish.


It sounds great and it's a brilliant price but I don't know enough about it. I'm wondering if it's safe for reptiles? I found this:

Name: -Medium Density Fibreboard (MDF)

Sources: -MDF is a type of hardboard, which is made from wood fibres glued under heat and pressure.

Advantages: -There are a number of reasons why MDF may be used instead of plywood or chipboard. It is dense, flat, stiff, has no knots and is easily machined. Because it is made up of fine particles it does not have an easily recognisable surface grain. MDF can be painted to produce a smooth quality surface. Because MDF has no grain it can be cut, drilled, machined and filed without damaging the surface. MDF may be dowelled together and traditional woodwork joints may even be cut. MDF may be glued together with PVA wood glue. Oil, water-based paints and varnishes may be used on MDF. Veneers and laminates may also be used to finish MDF

Disadvantages: -MDF can be dangerous to use if the correct safety precautions are not taken. MDF contains a substance called urea formaldehyde, which may be released from the material through cutting and sanding. Urea formaldehyde may cause irritation to the eyes and lungs. Proper ventilation is required when using it and facemasks are needed when sanding or cutting MDF with machinery. The dust produced when machining MDF is very dangerous. Masks and goggles should always be worn at all times. Due to the fact that MDF contains a great deal of glue the cutting edges of your tools will blunt very quickly. MDF can be fixed together with screws and nails but the material may split if care is not taken. If you are screwing, the screws should not be any further than 25mm in from the edge. When using screws always use pilot holes. Urea formaldehyde is always being slowly released from the surface of MDF. When painting it is good idea to coat the whole of the product in order to seal in the urea formaldehyde. Wax and oil finishes may be used as finishes but they are less effective at sealing in the urea formaldehyde

Uses: -It may be used to make display cabinets, wall-panels and storage units.

I'll either be going for that if it's safe (and painting it something interesting) or the white contiboard.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

yep just use MDF and paint with a few layers of yacht varnish


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

MDF can look really tacky at times though.

Marina


P.S you don't need to necessarily seal a viv to prevent moisture from seeping it it also stops sand and debris from getting in to the cracks of the joined wood.

Marina


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok, believe it or not I think my plans are pretty much finished. Been working it out all day, and I'm very confident about all the measurements. I've even been to B&Q and took note of all the different sizes they do so I can get the best deal. Because the contiboard does look good and won't need to be painted in the first place, I've decided to use the white contiboard for the whole thing except the back. The back only need to be partially painted anyway and it has to be a very large piece (if I want things to be easy) so I'm using MDF for the back. They didn't have contiboard that was big enough for the back. I could have sued a couple of pieces together but it would be cheaper using the MDF. So I've worked it all out including the cutting and the getting the wood cut and ready is almost exactly £50. Pretty good huh? Took a while to get it to that number. Had to play around with what sizes I would be buying and cutting and managed to get it from £75 to £50 just be being efficient.

I'm going to work on the frame this this week. Thanks once again for all the info. I'll try and get my hands on some yacht varnish and get that done soon (and painted as well). I'll start taking photos too and keep the thread up to date incase it's useful for others.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, it has begun. Got the floor, sides and top together now. Nice to finally see the potential size of it in front of me. Next purchase is the shelf (floor of second viv) and all the front pieces that the glass will meet. Oh and a piece to section off a burrowing area in the bottom viv. That's all part 2. Some time after that, I'll be getting on with the runners, vents and glass and then the very last part will be getting the equipment connected!

As I said earlier, I suck at DIY. So I had a bit of a nightmare and a piece of wood I was using fell over and pulled screws out and snapped some wood. It happened because I was careless. But I learned from the mistake and it's not looking too bad at all. Quite chuffed with it considering my lack of craftsman skills!

Already, many of the tips in this thread have been very useful!


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## newbeviv (May 27, 2008)

just a thought for you i was reading about stacks the other day and it advised when building a stack to dblup on the shelves to prevent the upper vivs for over heating as heat rises the temps can be hard to maintain on the upper vivs this could cause problems depending on what you will be keeping in them : victory:


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## Herp_boi (May 12, 2008)

BEst of luck with the vivs
make sure you get some piccies and dimensions :devil: :mf_dribble: :flrt:
:2thumb:


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Herp_boi said:


> BEst of luck with the vivs
> make sure you get some piccies and dimensions :devil: :mf_dribble: :flrt:
> :2thumb:


I will! I'm putting the shelfs and front pieces in at the end of the week so I'll take before and after pics of that process too. The bottom two vivs are 4x2x2 (on top of each other) with a viv on top and space beside it for an exo terra vivarium as well.


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## yellrat (Jun 13, 2008)

how did this stack build work out cant find any pics


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

It's going really well, just went slowly for a while because I've been busy! Tomorrow I'm moving it into the house because it's out in the garage at the moment. I haven't taken any pics because my camera broke recently (well, the memory card did).

I've got everything I need minus glass and runners etc. The floor, roof and sides are already attached. I'll move it into the house, take some pics of it and then add everything and take photos as I go.

I lost my plans by the way! Good thing I have a decent memory!


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

Glad to hear its going well. I was going to build individual vivs for my upcoming reps but after deciding on moving my a large aquarium out of the room I have enough space to make a decent stack.

For some reason my local B&Q warehouse only stock 15mm white contiboard. Because those sizes are different to 18mm I've got to re-do all the plans :bash:

I'll be watching this thread with interest.


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah, I'm using the 15mm contiboard from there too and I had originally made plans for 18mm. But it worked out better. Also, take note if you are using any dimensions that will be 60cm. A lot of their contiboard comes 61cm which is good enough. Made some quick changes to the plans and managed to avoid extra cuts.

Actually, I've managed to get all the wood for the entire stack which includes:

- floor
- roof
- shelf
- front parts
- back
- burrowing area

All from 3x contiboard and 1x MDF just because I planned it well.


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