# urgent help needed



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

sorry dont know the name of these fish
but can these fish be tropical
I NEED THE ANSWER ASAP


http://www.somethingsphishy.com/images/Assorted Goldfish.JPG

please be quick thanx


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

No.

They're fantails, a fancy goldfish. They'll die in water over 18c.

Harry

PS, why is it so urgent?


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

sorry guys but i need to bump 2 life's are on the line!


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

HAVE ANSWERED!!

Harry


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

i think they,re name starts with or


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> HAVE ANSWERED!!
> 
> Harry


sorry didnt see it


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

If their name starts with or, their Oranda. Still a fancy goldfish tho.

Harry


----------



## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

connor 1213 said:


> sorry guys but i need to bump 2 life's are on the line!


They're only fish :whistling2:


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

that cost £10 each!:bash:

sorry got confused it was the bigger ones that were £10

they cost me £5 each


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> If their name starts with or, their Oranda. Still a fancy goldfish tho.
> 
> Harry


can i put them in cold water then


----------



## EP1 (Jun 27, 2009)

yea cold water


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> They're fantails, a fancy goldfish. *They'll die in water over 18c.*


Not quite - they can tolerate higher conditions for short periods of time. My goldfish tank hits about 22C in summertime but their physiology is definitely better adapted to cooler conditions in the longterm. : victory:


----------



## klair328 (Nov 15, 2006)

connor 1213 said:


> that cost £10 each!:bash:


 you were robbed then lol 
gold fish can live in higher temperatures and survive in a heated tank but the chances of it catching dropsy or white spot and things as such are increasedn aswell as they will out grow their space rather quick too...

* before i get people sayin im wrong* im only sayin wot the petshops i worked in to told me to say lol


----------



## klair328 (Nov 15, 2006)

also they look like shibumkins to me..


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

guys you dont know how pissed off i am i will be going to that shop tomorrow and telling the that im getting my money back.

record in the last 24 hours

1 Hong Kong pleco
1 fancy gold fish 
1 apple snail

record in the past week (including less than 24 hours)

2 guppies
1 Hong Kong pleco
1 fancy gold fish 
1 apple snail


i will update you what happens in the shop


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

connor 1213 said:


> that cost £10 each!:bash:


sorry got confused it was the bigger ones that were £10

they cost me £5 each


----------



## DaveM (Oct 18, 2006)

they kinda look like Calicos to me


----------



## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

yes no problem. cold water fish


----------



## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

calico fantails ...deffo not Orandas. Not worth £10.00 either.
Sheesh..
P


----------



## DaveM (Oct 18, 2006)

what happened btw? Why are you so annoyed with the shop? Calicaos are usually priced between £4.50 - £5.50 each, so what you payed was about average


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

DaveM said:


> what happened btw? Why are you so annoyed with the shop? Calicaos are usually priced between £4.50 - £5.50 each, so what you payed was about average


because in the past week except from 1 fish that might not make it through the night 1 golden apple snail , 2 guppies , 1 hong kong plec , 1 fancy gold fish

IN THE PAST WEEK AND ALL THAT STUFF WAS BOUGHT OFF OF THEM


----------



## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> No.
> 
> They're fantails, a fancy goldfish. They'll die in water over 18c.
> 
> ...


----------



## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

klair328 said:


> you were robbed then lol
> gold fish can live in higher temperatures and survive in a heated tank but the chances of it catching dropsy or white spot and things as such are increasedn aswell as they will out grow their space rather quick too...
> 
> * before i get people sayin im wrong* im only sayin wot the petshops i worked in to told me to say lol


 
Can you furnish me with the information as to why white spot and dropsy in particular would be more prevalent in goldfish kept at higher temps.

I`m guessing you can`t.


----------



## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

the only problems I thought goldfish kept at higher temps is that they have shorter lifespan?


----------



## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

connor 1213 said:


> because in the past week except from 1 fish that might not make it through the night 1 golden apple snail , 2 guppies , 1 hong kong plec , 1 fancy gold fish
> 
> IN THE PAST WEEK AND ALL THAT STUFF WAS BOUGHT OFF OF THEM


 stop buying there?

fancy goldfish in particular are more tolerant of higher temps


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

daftlassieemma said:


> stop buying there?
> 
> Fancy goldfish in particular are more tolerant of higher temps


im going to stop tomorrow


----------



## DaveM (Oct 18, 2006)

Graylord said:


> Can you furnish me with the information as to why white spot and dropsy in particular would be more prevalent in goldfish kept at higher temps.
> 
> I`m guessing you can`t.




Not sure about the dropsy, but the life cycle of white spot is quicker at higher temps, so I can imagine that fish that are used to cooler woater, such as goldfish would show a higher susceptability to it, where as trops, evolved in higher temps, wold be a lot more adapted to cope with it


----------



## piercedrab (Jan 15, 2008)

where did you buy them from


----------



## geodaryl (Jan 17, 2009)

parasite/bacteria thrive at higher temps, if the fish is coldwater it will be weaker and more likely to become ill and not be able to fight off an infection.
To be honest mate you should really look into the parameters needed before buying a new fish so you know you have the correct setup for it.
How long has your tank been setup, what are the parameters? size? filtration?


----------



## Herpmad V2.0 (Nov 3, 2006)

geodaryl said:


> parasite/bacteria thrive at higher temps, if the fish is coldwater it will be weaker and more likely to become ill and not be able to fight off an infection.
> To be honest mate you should really look into the parameters needed before buying a new fish so you know you have the correct setup for it.
> How long has your tank been setup, what are the parameters? size? filtration?


white spot is also caused by stress, in fish its a bacteria that all fish carry however its harmless normaly untill the fish become stress normaly the best coure for white spot is not to treat the white spot itself but look else where i.e water quality and wat else you have in the tank, shops tend to have white spot in there tanks because the fish become stress with ppl looking in, water quality and the mass amount of fish in small tanks. i never fill my tanks with chemicals i just do a good 50% water change and make sure no other facters are causeing the stress that normaly stops it

to keep cold water and mild tropicals together IE gold fish and guppys you best of setting two tanks and slowly riase the temp for the gold fish and lower the temp in the guppys etc the guppys will drop easer than gold fish going up after a week or so they will be able to go in together


----------



## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm still confused by what the poster is angry about? you didnt know they were different fish or they told you their all heated or cold tank fish? or they died? or what lol?

Sorry for lack of common sense ive been up since 3.50am with lil one and having bad day at work too. :devil:


----------



## Reptile-newb (Jul 13, 2009)

connor 1213 said:


> that cost £10 each!:bash:
> 
> sorry got confused it was the bigger ones that were £10
> 
> they cost me £5 each


Dude, that's not expensive, I paid £45 for a single fantail!

I would NOT mix these fish. When goldfish get large they will eat guppies, and require large tanks in excess of 120L with good filtration. Goldfish and tropicals should not be mixed together, period. Most tropicals will nip at goldfish, and goldfish will chase around smaller fish, making both parties stressed.

Hong Kong plecs are actually hillstream loaches, a highly specialised coldwater fish that is not at all suited to the beginner, and should not really be kept with goldfish. They are best suited to a species tank or with small peaceful fish that like cold fast flowing water like white cloud mountain minnows.


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

connor 1213 said:


> can i put them in cold water then


Yes.

Harry


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Graylord said:


> Cleopatra the Royal said:
> 
> 
> > No.
> ...


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Graylord said:


> Can you furnish me with the information as to why white spot and dropsy in particular would be more prevalent in goldfish kept at higher temps.
> 
> I`m guessing you can`t.


 
I guessing we can...

Dropsy is cancer in the internal organs, which in turn is created by large parasites. These parasites live longer and grow more in warmer waters.

Icthyophthirius (white spot) is a bactieria that needs wamer water to reproduce more readily. The bacteria on the fish origionally will then fall off to the bottom of the tank and become a cyst. This then explodes leaving lots more 'white spots' in the tank. These then reproduce again. The cooler water reduces the reproduction of the 'white spot'. This is why it will catch it more in warmer water.

Also, in warmer water the fish will become more stressed and therefore become prone to bacterial and fungal infections. The immune system then deals with these, leaving the fish completely open to parasites.


Hope this helps you.


Harry


----------



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

snowgoose said:


> the only problems I thought goldfish kept at higher temps is that they have *shorter lifespan*?


Indicating that they _shouldn't _be kept in tropical temperatures...:devil:


----------



## Alkaline (May 2, 2009)

Cleopatra the Royal said:


> I guessing we can...
> 
> Dropsy is cancer in the internal organs, which in turn is created by large parasites.
> 
> ...


Connor... in order to help we need details. How large is the tank, how is it filered, what temp is it running at and how did you cycle it? 
Common guppies and goldfish don't die in under 24 hours because they're a little warm...and please god don't buy any more fish from ANY shop until you have evaluated your setup and RESEARCHED what you want to keep.

*Yours truly Frustrated VetSci*


----------



## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Firstly, glad you replied Alkaline, about them being parasites, and dropsy being a _syndrome_ (ie a clinical sign) not a specific disease process. 

Secondly;



Alkaline said:


> *Yours truly Frustrated VetSci*


VetSci? You a vetsci student?


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

sorry. CHRONIC dropsy is cancer in the internal organs OR large parasites doing damage to liver or kidney.

Misread my own notes.

Again, misreading my notes on ich. It is a parasite.

Harry


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

ok everything is fine they r in a gold fish bowl


----------



## Reptile-newb (Jul 13, 2009)

What the hell?
A goldfish bowl is totally unsuitable for ANY fish not even tiny ones like heterandria formosa.


----------



## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

saw that coming  shall we leave the thread now


----------



## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

its a xl plastic tank (like people put tarantulas in) i just call them a gold fish bowl because i have put the wee fishie in it


----------



## Alkaline (May 2, 2009)

AshMashMash said:


> VetSci? You a vetsci student?


A student? Lol, one upon a time... sadly I don't get to be such a hedonist anymore 
I studied Bioveterinary science, though I've primarily used it as a consultant to the veterinary pharmaceutical industry.

Connor... a goldfish bowl is not ok for _any_ fish. If you are losing fish it doesn't sound like the shops fault, it is your fault for housing your fish in unsuitable conditions and not researching ANYTHING about them before you bought them.

How about you start again with a CYCLED 2ft tank, internal powerfilter and some hardy tropical species? I guarantee it will be cheaper and more rewarding than your current endeavours. Thank goodness no one took you up on your "fish rescue" offer eh?!


----------



## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Alkaline said:


> I studied Bioveterinary science, though I've primarily used it as a consultant to the veterinary pharmaceutical industry.


Ah I see! Wicked. I'm a (soon to be) 4th year vet student my self


----------



## piercedrab (Jan 15, 2008)

connor mibby you should think about what your doing before you go buying things as its not the first time youve bought something you couldnt care for or even ask the correct questions and LISTEN to what your being told as in the past it goes in one ear and out the other


----------



## stucandoit (May 5, 2009)

glad to see you still dont listen to a word your told or do your research connor. GOOB


----------



## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

i am prised this thread still going lol. its all done with now.


----------



## Reptile-newb (Jul 13, 2009)

connor 1213 said:


> its a xl plastic tank (like people put tarantulas in) i just call them a gold fish bowl because i have put the wee fishie in it


Okay, you seem to forget plastic tanks are usually 5-25L, aka TINY!!!
No way suitable for fish.

I think people like you should buy a good fish book and read up on the fish you want to keep and then house it properly, not just act retarded and go to a store and buy a fish and then blame the guy at the store when it dies due to your negligence of the fish.


----------



## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

lol. Saw this coming 10 posts ago. Connor, understand your set isnt acceptable and that will be why all of your fish keep dying. Maybe instead of trying to defend what you have you should be open to the advice that people who've been keeping their fish for umpteen years give you mate. By constantly trying to re-emphasise that your tank is ideal when it 90% most likely isn't, its just going to give more ammo for some people to shoot you down with. Its as simple as that.

This is going to get to the same stage as that Lovely-amy thread in shelled at this rate lol...


----------



## Reptile-newb (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm fed of people who don't realise fish are expensive pets. Far more so than most herps.
They need expensive strengthened glass tanks, expensive liquid test kits, expensive filters, expensive heaters, expensive lighting, etc and all need a ton of patience - such as when cycling.


----------



## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Reptile-newb said:


> I'm fed of people who don't realise fish are expensive pets. Far more so than most herps.
> They need expensive strengthened glass tanks, expensive liquid test kits, expensive filters, expensive heaters, expensive lighting, etc and all need a ton of patience - such as when cycling.


Not always! Fish can be done cheaply, well, depends what you define as cheap/expensive. My first 2ft (60L) tank was set up for £100 entirely. 

I mean, what are you looking at? 

Tank - £25 or so
Basic test kits £20
Filter £15/20
Heater £20
Lights £20 starter and £10 bulb

Minus the heater if its just for goldfish, and minus the light if you dont have plants, it can be just £65 ish?


----------



## Reptile-newb (Jul 13, 2009)

You got it cheap! My 60L shrimp tank cost £160 (although the components were new, I guess you could get a better deal used.)

I see what you mean, but a tank for one single-tailed goldfish like a 80L would cost more than £25, I've never seen a brand new tank for that price (and second hand ones are rare round here.)

Also you forgot the substrate (although even this is an optional extra) and the dechlorinator, sorry for nitpicking!

Still a 60L is not really ideal for more than 2-4 shoals of small tropical fish and only alright for one fancy goldfish.


----------



## Bradders100 (Feb 3, 2008)

Just been reading through all this, and... if he bought all them fish one week (and the tank hasnt been cycled properly_ and then bought another bunch only a week after... Isn;t that pretty bad for the fish in generally, regardeless of what they are :S

Where I work, we advise one goldfish to start off with or some mountain minnows depending on the size of the tank (which we do our best to advise people on x_x)

and also, when it comes to white spot, higher tepms can also kill off white spot in tropical tanks doesn't it?


----------

