# Snake prejudice.



## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

In a new brilliant snake book i got fro xmas, i wa sreading about nskaes and humans and it said about prejudice, i hadnt ever really thought of it as prejudice for people who hate snakes but it is. People see a snake and think slimey windy evil thing, but people who know them think of them as elegant beatiful creatures. I think this is further proved by people who used to hate snakes but as soon as they were introduced liked them. I think there are oto many programs called thigns like 'killer snakes of teh amazon' etc. there should be a program that provides an honest insight into the wonderful lives of our snakey friends.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

i agree 100%

ooh we should our own show....-daydreams about hosting a repile programme-.......


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

An RFUK show would be cool, especially some of the big collections!!!
I remember the story of popcorn the albino burmese, who died because of this prejudice, this kid saw the snake and judged and put action with that judgement, but if that boy had known the snake then i doubt he would have done that.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

i think we've got a winner here! ill write 2 the bbc lol!


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

To be honest, i've lost count the number of times i've heard people say to me that they can't believe i've got snakes as pets. 

My dad doesn't care for reptiles so he rarely sees mine.
my mum was originally scared of the snakes, until she saw my first corns when i got them. She was amazed, and still comes in to my room just to look at them, the lizards and the tort.

I've dragged quite a few people into my room, and got them to hold the snakes. Their attitude changed after they had a little hold! 

Only 3 people i haven't been able to convince that they're nice animals and not the evil buggers everyone thinks they are!

One is my aunt, she's crazy anyway.
the other is a French farmer i know, he pooed his pants when he saw my snakes. But he was nearly killed by an adder in France.
and the third one is one of my best mates.


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

Some of ours friends were horrified about us keeping snakes, but after seeing them and handling them have changed their minds. I think for a lot of people they've never seen one in the flesh and just decide they don't like them. 
My mum is fascinated by ours, but did comment today that "most reptiles aren't cared for properly. Huh? Based on what? I'm a bit concerned how a seemingly intelligent woman can make such an unfounded comment. And seeing as I'm the only person she knows who keeps them!?!?!

Jo


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

My Dad was terrified, thought they were vicious bitng things that would constrict anything that touched them, but now he is alot better hes still scared, but he ill touch oscar, and he thinks oscar is bautiful and calm, first impressions can be awful things. At school people tease me because of my love of snkaes, they think that snkaes are boring and freakish, but they just dont know.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I went to Cyprus this summer, the attitude of most Cypriots is that the only good snake is a dead one and they'll go out of their way to kill any snake they see. They associate all snakes with evil and it's easy to see why, look no further than the book of Genesis and the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
It's the same everywhere, thousands of years of religious teaching has made this idea so ingrained in society that even many non-believers accept it.
The church has an awful lot to answer for when it comes to human mistreatment of all animals.


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

It seems the only encouraging relgions like the acient egyptians and aztecs are long gone, mind oyu im quite glad that were not sacrificing people, but htey worshipped snakes how did it change ot be that people hate them now!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

I do love totally ludicrous and misinformed posts like this... 

"*the attitude of most Cypriots is that the only good snake is a dead one and they'll go out of their way to kill any snake they see.*"

:up: Did you actually get to ask the entire population of Cyprus their views on snakes on your holiday ? I do hope you left some time for sight seeing.

"*They associate all snakes with evil and it's easy to see why, look no further than the book of Genesis and the serpent in the Garden of Eden.*"

The original text actually had it as a 'beast'... it's only one of the many translations of the original text of the bible that turned it into a snake. Given that the animal in the garden of Eden could speak, it's does not take much intelligence to realise that it was not a real snake.

Religions in Cyprus include The Greek orthodox church, Islam, Anglicans, Latin Catholic church of Cyprus, Maronite Church, Armenian Orthodox and the Greek Evangelists.... Not many would be that interested in the book of Genesis translated to Greek from a Jewish bible. But hopefully the Greek translation was better than the English one 

"*The church has an awful lot to answer for when it comes to human mistreatment of all animals.*"

Which church ? The church of England ? Did you know that dogs are only mentioned 14 times in the bible, Domestic cats are not mentioned at all but Lions are mentioned 55 times. There are only 8 verses in the entire bible that mentions serpents


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

ratboy said:


> I do love totally ludicrous and misinformed posts like this...
> 
> "*the attitude of most Cypriots is that the only good snake is a dead one and they'll go out of their way to kill any snake they see.*"
> 
> ...


Steve you are so anal..... but so bloody right everytime :lol2:


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> Steve you are so anal..... but so bloody right everytime :lol2:


:lol2::lol2: Happy New Year dude


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

lol.
I asked our local priest and he said it ws not directed at snakes, but alotof people interperate it like that.


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

lol the number of times I've been asked why not a cat or dog instead doesn't bare thinking about (same answer everythime btw, I'm actually allergic to dog and cat hair).


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> Did you actually get to ask the entire population of Cyprus their views on snakes on your holiday ? I do hope you left some time for sight seeing.


Of course I didn't get to ask the entire population, this is information that I got from British and Cypriot friends who we were visiting, people who have lived there for many years if not their entire lives.

I also asked the internationally respected herp expert Hans-Joerg Wiedl, known to locals as "Snake George", and he confirmed what I'd been told. It was precisely because of this attitude that most Cypriots have towards snakes that he set up a reptile park and education centre Untitled Document on the island.

I'd have thought that these two sources were pretty reliable, but maybe you have a better one? 

I'm also quite aware that the original wording of the bible didn't mention a serpent, but a serpent is what most people have come to know it as. It's also well documented that this hatred of snakes amongst Cypriots has it's roots in religious teaching, I refer you to the story of Saint Helena who supposedly brought a ship load of cats to the island in the middle ages to kill all the snakes and lizards. The story is well known and is taken quite literally by many locals. 



> Which church ? The church of England ?


The church in general. Teaching that man is above all the animals, and that they are put on earth for our use doesn't really help the cause of animal welfare.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Graham said:


> I also asked the internationally respected herp expert Hans-Joerg Wiedl, known to locals as "Snake George", and he confirmed what I'd been told. It was precisely because of this attitude that most Cypriots have towards snakes that he set up a reptile park and education centre Untitled Document on the island.


Interesting looking park... can't find anywhere where he lays the decline of the reptile population at the door of the church though. Also seems a little odd to open a commercial reptile park in a country where the majority apparently go out of their way to kill every snake they see. Do they not attack the snakes in the park ?


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

We cant froget that quite a few religions worship snakes, eg hinduism think of the naga etc. i gto this from answers.com about snakes in hinduism
Shesha (Adisesha, Sheshnaga, or the 1,000 headed snake) upholds the world on his many heads and is said to be used by Lord Vishnu to rest. Shesha also sheltered Lord Krishna from a thunderstorm during his birth.
Vasuki allowed himself to be coiled around Mount Mandara by the Devas and Asuras to churn the milky ocean creating the ambrosia of immortality.
Kaliya poisoned the Jamuna / Yamuna river where he lived. Krishna (Balakrishna / infant Krishna) subdued Kaliya by dancing on him and compelled him to leave the river.
Manasadevi is the queen of the snakes.
Ananta is the endless snake who circles the world.
Padmanabha (or Padmaka) is the guardian snake of the south.
Astika is half Brahmin and half naga.
look at this hindu statue:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

my god there are some anal people on this forum lol

i see both peoples points as valid.

no disrespect, but things such as kosha meat have been taken literally from theold testament, and that is not particularly humane.

i also know plently of greek cypriots that like snakes.

as mentioned above, some religions worship snakes.there are snake temples, such at the snake temple at sungei kluang in penang, malasia. live trimesurus wagleri are kept and worshipped here.

Alex


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> seems a little odd to open a commercial reptile park in a country where the majority apparently go out of their way to kill every snake they see. Do they not attack the snakes in the park ?


Not quite sure what you mean by a "commercial" reptile park? Yes there's a small admission fee, to help cover the costs of running the park, but it's hardly a money making venture. 

The point of the park is to educate people about snakes and other reptiles, to show them that they aren't something to be feared and killed, there would be little point opening such a facility in a place where no such antipathy existed would there?



> can't find anywhere where he lays the decline of the reptile population at the door of the church


No he doesn't publicly blame the teachings of the church for the antipathy towards reptiles, not on his website anyway, that would be counterproductive in a country where the vast majority are believers. And we all know what can happen to dissenters in countries where faith has the upper hand, the man's not an idiot! 

The point is though that this hatred of snakes in Cyprus stems from a story about a major figure in both the Greek Orthodox and Catholic Churches, far from being "_ludicrous and misinformed_" it's a historical fact. And I wonder where Saint Helena, an early Christian, got her opinions on snakes from?


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Graham said:


> The point is though that this hatred of snakes in Cyprus stems from a story about a major figure in both the Greek Orthodox and Catholic Churches, far from being "_ludicrous and misinformed_" it's a historical fact. And I wonder where Saint Helena, an early Christian, got her opinions on snakes from?


The ludicrous and misinformed part is the sweeping statement that most Cypriots go out of their way to kill every snake they see. This is obviously a gross exaggeration as if it were the case then all the snake species in Cyprus would surely be extinct.

In fact, Snakes of Cyprus by Hans-Jorg Wiedl (Feb 2003) quotes the following snake species 
The Large Whip Snake (Coluber jugularis) 
The Cyprus Whip Snake (Coluber cypriensis)
Worm Snake (Typhlops vermicularis) 
The Cyprus Grass Snake (Natrix natrix cypriaca)
Coin snake (Coluber nummifer)
Cat snake (Telescopus tallax cyprianus) 

Montpellier snake (Malpolon monspessulanus insignitus)
Blunt-nosed viper (Macrovipera l.lebetina cypriensis)


So they seem to be holding out rather well against such overt human persecution.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

In fact if you look at Greek Orthodox traditions, they believe that the souls of the departed either become serpents or are associated with them.

This could explain a lot if you believed that a snake was in fact your deceased mother in law.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

ratboy said:


> In fact if you look at Greek Orthodox traditions, they believe that the souls of the departed either become serpents or are associated with them.
> 
> *This could explain a lot if you believed that a snake was in fact your deceased mother in law*.


That'd be one for the freezer!:lol2:

good to see you back Steve


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> This is obviously a gross exaggeration as if it were the case then all the snake species in Cyprus would surely be extinct.


Not really, most of the island is pretty wild and uninhabited and is likely to remain so, luckily for the native wildlife which still flourishes in these areas.

However many Cypriots will swerve to run over a reptile on the road, you see squashed snakes and lizards all over the place, often right at the edge of the road where it's obvious they've been run over deliberately. And the huge numbers of hunters will happily shoot anything that moves just for the "fun" of it, something that affects all species not just reptiles, even migrating birds are shot even though it's totally illegal. 

As I said the statement about the attitudes of the majority of Cypriots is something I even heard from Cypriots themselves, both from snake lovers at the Herpetologial Society, and snake haters themselves who seemed quite proud of the fact.

You see when I first heard of this hatred I didn't quite believe it myself, so I went looking for evidence and found plenty of it from some highly credible and respected sources.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Graham said:


> However many Cypriots will swerve to run over a reptile on the road, you see squashed snakes and lizards all over the place, often right at the edge of the road where it's obvious they've been run over deliberately. And the huge numbers of hunters will happily shoot anything that moves just for the "fun" of it, something that affects all species not just reptiles, even migrating birds are shot even though it's totally illegal.


As will people from Britain, America, France, Germany.... this is nothing to do with a biblical hatred of snakes, it's just human nature. Put a gun in someones hands and they will want to shoot something.

People fear snakes, rats, lions, tigers, wasps, spiders, you name it... we are a pretty pathetic and weedy species... and if we have the means at our disposal we will kill them. It has nothing at all to do with religion, religion is just used as an excuse.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> religion is just used as an excuse


Now there I have to agree with you, the faithful are always using their religion as a poor excuse for their actions, whether it's the persecution of animals or people.


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

Miranda said:


> I remember the story of popcorn the albino burmese, who died because of this prejudice, this kid saw the snake and judged and put action with that judgement, but if that boy had known the snake then i doubt he would have done that.


Is that the one where the kid stood on the snakes head and he barely got into trouble off his parents...I heard a story like this a couple months back on redearslider.com just thought it might be the same one.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

> My mum is fascinated by ours, but did comment today that "most reptiles aren't cared for properly. Huh? Based on what? I'm a bit concerned how a seemingly intelligent woman can make such an unfounded comment. And seeing as I'm the only person she knows who keeps them!?!?!
> 
> Jo


unfortunately this is the image that the antis (through propaganda), and general media (mostly through ignorance and old fashioned ideas) dish out to the public. Once you've had an idea shown to you enough it can easily become imprinted in your mind as fact, almost as if it's based on your own personal experiences. It becomes an opinion and it isn't easy to change a persons opinion.


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

kaimarion said:


> Is that the one where the kid stood on the snakes head and he barely got into trouble off his parents...I heard a story like this a couple months back on redearslider.com just thought it might be the same one.


Yeah.
I gto very angry about that story.


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