# 2019 a resurgence of shows around the UK?



## harry python (Sep 21, 2015)

Having read the AAL guidance and the unswerving inferences in support of society shows 2019 must be the year we start getting back some local shows?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

harry python said:


> Having read the AAL guidance and the unswerving inferences in support of society shows 2019 must be the year we start getting back some local shows?


Well it hasn't been- we still only have Donny so far, & none of the regional clubs have been successful in securing any venues to host new shows.


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## harry python (Sep 21, 2015)

wilkinss77 said:


> Well it hasn't been- we still only have Donny so far, & none of the regional clubs have been successful in securing any venues to host new shows.


 Seems there was a small gig at Guilford last Sunday 20th oct with somebody uploading piccys of it on the IHS facebook page.


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## Whosthedaddy2 (Oct 24, 2016)

Yep, SRAS had a breeders meeting last week.

Surprised at how just the little venue was and even more surprised at the variety or species on display too.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

harry python said:


> Seems there was a small gig at Guilford last Sunday 20th oct with somebody uploading piccys of it on the IHS facebook page.





Whosthedaddy2 said:


> Yep, SRAS had a breeders meeting last week.
> 
> Surprised at how just the little venue was and even more surprised at the variety or species on display too.


That was a one-off show though, & the only one all year so far other than Donny. This hasn't been the year of the return of the reptile show, sadly.


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## DrymarchonCouperi (Jul 6, 2019)

wilkinss77 said:


> That was a one-off show though, & the only one all year so far other than Donny. This hasn't been the year of the return of the reptile show, sadly.


If keepers are expecting a return of the glory years for shows from 10 years ago will unfortunately be disappointed,even though legislation changed the views taken by Local authorities and event venues hasn't,as with other animal shows and markets the wider public perception is against such events.What keepers don't take into consideration is the unique nature of the relationship between Donnington licence department,the race course and the show organiser,this is unique ,it's the main reason Donny's stayed open,Donny is an anomaly not the blueprint.Plus with Donny having so many show per year theres no incentive for other shows,Donny has in effect flooded the market.
For keepers that use Donnington IHS breeders meetings need to appreciate it for what it is,the last large UK reptile show


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## harry python (Sep 21, 2015)

DrymarchonCouperi said:


> If keepers are expecting a return of the glory years for shows from 10 years ago will unfortunately be disappointed,even though legislation changed the views taken by Local authorities and event venues hasn't,as with other animal shows and markets the wider public perception is against such events.What keepers don't take into consideration is the unique nature of the relationship between Donnington licence department,the race course and the show organiser,this is unique ,it's the main reason Donny's stayed open,Donny is an anomaly not the blueprint.Plus with Donny having so many show per year theres no incentive for other shows,Donny has in effect flooded the market.
> For keepers that use Donnington IHS breeders meetings need to appreciate it for what it is,the last large UK reptile show



Well there you go there is at least 3 venues per year now that Donnington and Guildford have been added to the calendar.


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## harry python (Sep 21, 2015)

wilkinss77 said:


> That was a one-off show though, & the only one all year so far other than Donny. This hasn't been the year of the return of the reptile show, sadly.


The Guildford show was small and roughly the same size as the majority of the multitude of EU shows up and running every week. There is plenty of small venues in anti-animal rights rural agricultural. The missing element for more shows is that there are now too few people motivated and prepared to organise them. i.e. those that used to organise them are now OAPs and the younger generations are sackless and can't be arsed as they expect others to serve them. Lets hope the IHS have a succession strategy in place for show organisation for when Richard Brook and his team have had enough. If not there will be a lot of people up schitt creek for a venue to shift their so called surplus stock.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

harry python said:


> Well there you go there is at least 3 venues per year now that Donnington and Guildford have been added to the calendar.


That's only 2- which is the 3rd one?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

harry python said:


> Well there you go there is at least 3 venues per year now that Donnington and Guildford have been added to the calendar.


I think Drymarchon has confused Doncaster with Donnington :lol2:


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## DrymarchonCouperi (Jul 6, 2019)

ian14 said:


> I think Drymarchon has confused Doncaster with Donnington :lol2:


Well spotted typo error lol,
Point was made though,as for the IHS,letting Doncaster go,it won't as it's too reliant on the money it generates.
Most don't appreciate to work that goes into shows,or the amount of free labour needed.


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## Crablet (Dec 27, 2012)

Hey guys, I am from SRAS and organised the breeders meeting in Guildford.
It was small in comparison to Doncaster - only 40 tables but all meetings/shows have to start somewhere.

The reasons I think that we havnt had a bunch of new shows this year is because people don’t support or get involved with their local herp societies any more, it takes a huge amount of time and funding in order to put on these shows, and that’s not to do with age Id like to emphasise, everyone who organised the SRAS breeders meeting is under 31.
People would rather just sit on their bum and talk over the internet than speak to each other face to face. 

The other reason I do believe is lack of venue, we are in a unique position in the fact that our chairman works at the venue and was able to work with the local AAL officer, who already licences the animal activities currently on that site (a zoo, equestrian centre, dog care etc) to make sure everything was in order. 
And the fact the venue is well versed in defending against anti animal people. 

The reason why Doncaster is held where it is because of the unique licencing mentioned above. Even Kempton which was on a race course fell to lobbyists.

However having got into bird keeping recently, there is a bird show every month in Guildford, held in a village hall which is I think now possible because they require membership to attend which follows the AAL. 
This may be able to be applied by other reptile societies, but as I said, it takes time and funding.

The SRAS breeders meeting wasn’t a one off, we will hold another one next year. 
But its hugely sad to me that our regular monthly educational meetings where we have a speaker or workshop or zoo trip are attended by a handful of people and then we have 250 people in attendance to look at some geckos, torts and snakes in boxes.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Crablet said:


> Hey guys, I am from SRAS and organised the breeders meeting in Guildford.
> It was small in comparison to Doncaster - only 40 tables but all meetings/shows have to start somewhere.
> 
> The reasons I think that we havnt had a bunch of new shows this year is because people don’t support or get involved with their local herp societies any more, it takes a huge amount of time and funding in order to put on these shows, and that’s not to do with age Id like to emphasise, everyone who organised the SRAS breeders meeting is under 31.
> ...


Did you advertise it on here at all?


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## harry python (Sep 21, 2015)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Did you advertise it on here at all?


There is a bird auction/show that has been held at Rackheath village hall in Norwich every last sunday of the month for at least twenty years and never had a hitch. Similarly, Rabbit, guinea pig and small livestock breeders shows are held regularly around the same area. To that there are various other bird shows locally that a permanent fixtures on the calendar. All fairly small scale but proves there are potential venues for small reptile breeders shows if the will was there to put them on.


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## DrymarchonCouperi (Jul 6, 2019)

I thought it was common knowledge that Kempton stopped because it wasn't booked,a laps by the organisers, So Kempton booked the slot with others who happened to pay more,after which there was no going back,nothing to do with any antis.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

DrymarchonCouperi said:


> I thought it was common knowledge that Kempton stopped because it wasn't booked,a laps by the organisers, So Kempton booked the slot with others who happened to pay more,after which there was no going back,nothing to do with any antis.


Not true at all, & no such thing is common knowledge. What happened was that the organisers pencilled the dates in but didn't confirm until they'd heard the result of the legal case regarding the legality of reptile shows. By the time the result confirmed they are indeed legal, the APA had seized the opportunity to spook Kempton into cancelling the shows by producing a pseudoscientific paper they'd cooked up, claiming that reptiles spread diseases that can infect horses. If it had simply been a matter of missing the boat that year, the organisers would have negotiated a new arrangement for future shows.


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## DrymarchonCouperi (Jul 6, 2019)

wilkinss77 said:


> Not true at all, & no such thing is common knowledge. What happened was that the organisers pencilled the dates in but didn't confirm until they'd heard the result of the legal case regarding the legality of reptile shows. By the time the result confirmed they are indeed legal, the APA had seized the opportunity to spook Kempton into cancelling the shows by producing a pseudoscientific paper they'd cooked up, claiming that reptiles spread diseases that can infect horses. If it had simply been a matter of missing the boat that year, the organisers would have negotiated a new arrangement for future shows.


your recollection isn't quite right,the dates weren't confirmed,somebody else picked up the dates and paid a higher price,so no more reptile shows at kempton,the (court case your referring to wasn't till a lot later)had no baring on what happened at Kempton,plus the case was thrown out,it didn't confirm reptile shows were legal at the time,Local authority licensing departments have as much power as they like to enforce the law as per their interpretation,no need for any wacky loonytones papers by self proclaimed experts or pretend scientist.
No need to believe the face saving BS that some people post to try and save face.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

DrymarchonCouperi said:


> your recollection isn't quite right,the dates weren't confirmed,somebody else picked up the dates and paid a higher price,so no more reptile shows at kempton,the (court case your referring to wasn't till a lot later)had no baring on what happened at Kempton,plus the case was thrown out,it didn't confirm reptile shows were legal at the time,Local authority licensing departments have as much power as they like to enforce the law as per their interpretation,no need for any wacky loonytones papers by self proclaimed experts or pretend scientist.
> No need to believe the face saving BS that some people post to try and save face.


That's not what was discussed over on the old CB forum. One of those on the thread there, Mynki, an ex member from here is a race horse owner with horses based at Kempton. He confirmed that the shows were scuppered by the APA and that the management of the stadium told him that was the reason. He also posted a copy of the phoney science paper that the APA made.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

DrymarchonCouperi said:


> your recollection isn't quite right,the dates weren't confirmed,somebody else picked up the dates and paid a higher price,so no more reptile shows at kempton,the (court case your referring to wasn't till a lot later)had no baring on what happened at Kempton,plus the case was thrown out,it didn't confirm reptile shows were legal at the time,Local authority licensing departments have as much power as they like to enforce the law as per their interpretation,no need for any wacky loonytones papers by self proclaimed experts or pretend scientist.
> No need to believe the face saving BS that some people post to try and save face.


If that were the case why not either rebook for a different date or skip a year and book the next year?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> If that were the case why not either rebook for a different date or skip a year and book the next year?


That's what I said in my original reply.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Here is a link to a thread detailing the reason for Kempton being stopped:  * Kempton Park 2015. *Mynki is not involved, as he was banned from the forum by then, hence him making his comments on CB. Nevertheless there are posts in the linked thread that explain what I've been talking about.


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