# Planted viv with water area



## Char D (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi guys, 

I've made a background for a planed viv (exo terra) and have a couple of questions for people who know far more about planted Vivs than me 

Firstly, I was contemplating having a small water section at the front to keep the humidity high and as an aesthetic feature. However, I don't want the water to go stale or need constantly changing so I was wondering about a small pump. Do you think that say 30mins a day is enough to keep the water clean and clear with only occasional cleaning or are they quite high maintenance and need cleaning out frequently regardless of whether the water is moving or not?

Also with a water section, how do you keep the water from seeping into the hydroleca area? I was thinking of having ¾ of the floor with hydroleca/bio active substrate and then a small pebble/stone lined water/pond area at the front (straight on the floor of the tank) but apart from siliconing it all to make a waterproof area I can't really think of how to do it without putting a really obvious plastic tub in as a pond. Surely someone has done this already? Any ideas?

And finally, what is the difference between multi-purpose and organic compost and can I use either in bio active substrate? I have some multi-purpose compost with an organic plant booster (I'm guessing that means fertiliser) but am not sure if this counts as organic compost or not as I'd have thought they would advertise it better. It's for a crested gecko so they aren't going to be eating soil or the plants but maybe crickets would...

If anyone can help with any of these, that would be great! 

Thanks :2thumb:


----------



## Nicquita (Mar 14, 2009)

Mot people that have a water feature use a fake bottom from what I've seen, to creat a reservoir under the substrate. If hu use the search function on here, you'll find loads of builds like it : victory:


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

try a bit of glass silicone in and a small fish tank filter


----------



## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

this is a big topic, lots of ways to approach it, I suggest looking up paludariums in google and google images

My personal prefrence, is to first use a few pieces of drift wood, to create a divider for water and land areas

use a decent filter pump (fluval are good), lay the intake on the floor of the enclosure, sucking in from the water area

then cover the whole floor of the enclosure with about 1inch fine of gravel, a bit more over the filter intake to cover it.

then add a couple of inches of clay aggregate/balls to the land area, then add your substrate, moses, plants etc

thats the basics of it - you need to be careful about where you put your filter outlet, I usually use a plastic bottle, cut in half, buried in the land area, forms a kind of pond, the outlet goes into this, and drains out around the same level as the clay aggregate, so below the level of the substrate, this helps reduce the amount of substrate which will clog up the filter

below is a small one I was growing for a while, the water outlet is going into half a bottle, which is hidden inside a fake tree stump on the right hand side, the inlet sucks water from the far left under the gravel.

You will need plenty of light if you want it to grow properly, I am using 3 GU10 6000K LED lights there, 12W each, and a 30W 6500K CFL over the land area, growth was pretty good  (except for the pitcher, i had just added it in before that pic, but it didnt last more than 6 weeks, I think there was to much calcium left over in the gravel and light level was no adequate)

the substrate was coir/eco earth, mixed with a litte organic compost and dried/crumbled moss, with tropical springtails, ghost and grey tropical woodlice and earthworms, and some water snails


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

this is the one i did in a wood viv 


so you and see how i done it


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Frogfreak uses an interesting method; he uses an extra-long piece of the membrane used to separate the soil from the drainage material, placed first *under* it, then folded back *over*- so that it is completely enclosed, with the area at the front clear. He then disguises the leading edge of the drainage with pebbles- the water flows through freely, but the front 'pond' looks pretty natural. The substrate is then place on top of the 'pillow' of drainage material. I'm probably not describing it very well, lol, but it looks good and works.

And yes, organic potting soil is diferent from general purpose, although at least the one you have shouldn't have too much in the way of chemicals added. I'd recommend mixing some orchid bark in, to loosen it up a bit.

One last point; cresties are not good swimmers, so any water feature has to be shallow, with plenty of ways to get out, should they fall in. 

Hope some of that helps!


----------



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> Frogfreak uses an interesting method; he uses an extra-long piece of the membrane used to separate the soil from the drainage material, placed first *under* it, then folded back *over*- so that it is completely enclosed, with the area at the front clear. He then disguises the leading edge of the drainage with pebbles- the water flows through freely, but the front 'pond' looks pretty natural. The substrate is then place on top of the 'pillow' of drainage material. I'm probably not describing it very well, lol, but it looks good and works.


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/967813-couple-darfrog-housing-questions-2.html

and here's my attempt, side view


----------



## Char D (Feb 7, 2011)

That's brilliant, thanks for all the replies!

So is the idea to let the water seep through the gravel/hydroleca to a small depth or does the wood barrier/membrane prevent this? Because I thought the membrane was meant to allow water but not soil through, and similarly, I wouldn't have thought the wood would stop it completely?

Thank you for the photos, they look fab and make me want to do more planted setups! It's just a pity I dont keep many damp species :lol2: do you all keep your pumps running 24/ or just for short periods? 

Cloudforest, do you know if there is a reason why planted vivs need more light than the plants would receive if they were just being kept as house plants? Is it because they are planted and you want them to grow fast and cover the viv or do they die without light? I need a light anyway so I can see my cresties but I am just curious.

Also, I had a play around this weekend and once the plants were in the viv I realised I didn't have as much space to do a water feature (I wanted it to go in the front right corner) as I thought so for the cresties I think it will be land only.



















and one of the occupants 



















I love the look of planted setups so much that I'm considering doing it on a bigger scale for my rainbow boa as she will do well in humid conditions as well. Have any of you tried this/standing water in a wooden viv? I thought a few good coats of G4 pond sealant (seems to be a popular varnish around here) over the whole viv might be OK but I paid quite a lot for a stack of matching vivs and I'd hate for one to start warping/rotting! Pond sealant sounds like it should be suitable for standing water but whether that is actually the case...

bigd_1, how is our wooden viv holding up under high humidity/planted setup? an what is it made out of? does the glass paneling run under the whole of the substrate to protect the wood base or just under the pond area?


----------



## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

I allow the water to rise a few mm above the substrate line when I top up, and occasionally I use the filter outlet to water the land area, but it really depends on the type of plants you have and how much humidity and moisture they need/tolerate

I keep the pumps running 24/7, the filters work better if allowed to run like that, aerobic bacteria are more important in a planted setup, the plants use the Nitrates, if you switch of the pump, the oxygen supply is cut off, and you get a build up of anaerobic bacteria, which in some cases is useful, but not for a planted paludarium

moss, even very low light ones like fern moss, require lots of light to grow, I have fern moss in my CRB enclosure, growing under 2W of 6000K LED's @ ~12-13inches from the moss, growing well, but the more light you can get in, the better. LED strips are a simple way to do it, you need a good cool-white/6000K strip or two, and a strip of red LED's for night time will help to, plants do best with blue and red light.

yes some house plants can grow in very very low light, but for bushy growth, rather than long gangly growth, which wouldn't suit a vivarium, the more light the better


yep not much space left in there lol great crestie shot, lots of cover, i'm sure he'll enjoy the setup!

if you have just planted that moss, you can expect it to die back a bit (or maybe completely), but give it 6 months (if you have enough light) and it'll bounce back

have you added any cleaners like springtails? they will feed off any molds, which you can expect to start appearing in the next few weeks, but should stablize within 2months


----------



## Char D (Feb 7, 2011)

OK great, I'll have to have a bit of a play around. What type of enclosure is your CRB in? and do the plants get dug up or are they fairly safe? I planted out a viv (but kept the plants in pots) and my BRB liked crawling through the holes in the bottom of the pots and digging up the plants!

OK so ponds need 24/7 pumps, something to bear in mind. LED lights seem like a good plan - I have some strips that I'm using at the moment but I'll check if I can find out anything about the light output of them. They do red and blue as well but again, I've no idea how good they are so we'll see.

The moss is a bit like a carpet that I scraped off a paving slab in the garden so comes with grass, roots, a layer of mud underneath and I noticed a few worms too :lol2: I hoped that because it is well established outside first that that might help it stay alive but we have a ton of the stuff so I can always replace bits if needed. I am going out this weekend to find some woodlice to put in there and I can 'relocate' a few worms from my Mum's wormery. I figured that would be OK for now and if they aren't keeping up with their housekeeping duties I can add a few more. Maybe something the geckos will be able to eat as they love hunting (despite being appalling at it). There's probably a few crickets still roaming around in there from last nights dinner too. I can always buy some online but I'd like to use naturally found ones if I can :2thumb:

Thanks for the tip about the mould, is that just on the wood or should I expect it everywhere?


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

i just have my pump runing when the lights was on as it keep me up at night the sound of running water:lol2:


----------



## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

I let the plants root systems establish before putting my CRB in, she makes lots of tunnels, but mainly under the open moss areas, no plants dug up yet, I expect it will happen eventually lol

Mosses pretty much always die back once removed from wherever it was growing, takes allot of patience to get it back again, my CRB's fern moss has been growing for about 6 months, and is still nowhere near the lush green it was when I first put it in, slow business growing moss!

The molds will be mostly on the wood, but they will grow on pretty much any dead organic matter, spraying with water will reduce the amount of dry spores which may blow around and can cause respiratory problems for reptiles - its best to allow an enclosure to cycle for around 8 weeks, for this reason


----------



## Char D (Feb 7, 2011)

Ahh ok, my bad. The creatives are in now and as it was their home that I redecorated I can't really move them anywhere. They seem to be happy in there though, I dusted a load of crickets and put them in as I figured everything that doesn't get eaten (which with my 2 pigs is not a great deal) can help clean the tank and they've either eaten them all or some have buried down so that's a good start  

Everything is looking OK so far and the grass that was already growing in the moss has grown quite a bit in a week so I'm taking that as a good sign. I'm normally useless with plants as I forget to water them but fingers crossed these survive - at the very least I don't forget to water my creatives so the plants will have that :lol2:


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

looks good


----------



## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

keep us updated with pics  always enjoy seeing a natural viv mature, thats when they really come to life - every few weeks, get rid of any dead leaves and stalks, that will help keep molds at bay

I've personally never managed to get any UK grasses to grow under artificial light, even under metal halide, they germinate no problem, but die within a few days, they need loooads of light - notice how lawns are always brown underneath a tree? and the light in the shade of a tree is several orders of magnitude brighter than even a metal halide lamp


----------



## Char D (Feb 7, 2011)

OK great, thanks for the tips - do you do any specific pruning to stop plants getting too big or are house plants generally quite forgiving of you just cutting random bits off when they get too big?

Well this is the tank a week ago so you can see the little patches of grass in the moss carpet









And this is it today









and here is the grass growth


















I'm not expecting it to stay growing well because you seem to know much more about it than me and I even manage to kill orchids but for now its looking good  

The one plant that isn't looking great is the tillsandia but I'm hoping that will settle down.

And the cresties have found a nice place to sleep


----------



## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

cant really control fern growth by cutting back unfortunately, the more light that is available, the bushier they will grow, low light will make the stems grow long to try and find light. just cut back any leaves that are taking over the enclosure


----------

