# Thoughts on Albinos / Super Lessers / Butters



## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

*Hi I’ve just seen this post on a different forum and thought some may find it interesting ..*

Quote:-

Posting in a thread on the morphmarket forums has me thinking about some genetic issues that may not be spoken knowledge. 





For example... my thread in question is about a hatchling that appears to be a Red Eye Lucy, but has micropthalmia.


I recalled seeing a few couple different super lessers with small eyes and filed away in my brain that lessers can be prone to primarily bug eye, but also other eye problems as well. 


When told that wasn't the case, I looked to the internet for support of my mental notes and found that no one is talking about the "white demon" Super lesser albino micropthalmia issue. Apparently the only one known that they said was only super lesser (or other BEL) pieds.





We all know of the OWAL issues list.


Even though this list exists, the most prevalent issue we hear about is spider wobble, though sable, woma, spotnose and champagne seem to get swept under the rug alot.


I kind of laughed a little when I was told that lesser only causes bug eyes...but then told that immediately after it was already known that lesser pieds had microphthalmia. It's still the lesser gene causing an eye problem.





I didn't realize how prevalent it was in albinos until I started looking through the super lesser albinos that had been sold through there. I was hoping for one or two, but found more than that. someone who was in the hobby for a long while said on Reddit that BEL albinos are known to have micro eyes... Which I had never seen anyone else mention anywhere before





Have you seen other issues that may not have been spoken of?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

*My reply was this
Quote :-*


For what it’s worth ..

I got five , gorgeous and perfect Albino Royal babies from a pair of Albino Royals ..

Interestingly they are all slightly more colourful than the parents which were already lovely colours.


All perfect temperament and ravenous eaters ..


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

*Then their reply was..*

Quote

Sounds like a good line on the color, but that's just that further proof that it's really the Super Lesser or Butter gene (possibly all BEL supers?) are what's causing the small eyed albinos.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

I just wondered what you guys and girls thought!!


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

No experience or insight but just wanted to acknowledge you raise an interesting topic


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Having bred three super lessers, all with blue eyes and red pupils I cant say I noticed any difference in eye size. If anything they look to have slightly larger eyes as there is such a stark contrast to their white skin. Comparing measurements of shed eyecaps between these and their siblings of same age and size there was hardly any difference, and nothing to suggest enlarged or reduced eye size. I have no idea if breeding a super lesser with any other royal from the albino complex would result in reduced or enlarged eyes


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Most ‘super’ forms are weakened. It’s impossible to gauge with the naked eye but often they suffer slight deformities around the ocular cavity, reduced kidney function or other issues. 
One of the problems is that the inbreeding required to produce them is so haphazard. For example a super lesser produced from a hatchling paired back to its own mother surely has more chances of issues than a lesser to lesser pairing that have been outcrossed for several generations. 
I appreciate its circumstantial evidence but take strong black pattern mutations
Spider x Spider, Spider x Champagne, Spider x Woma are all allergic pairings that have ranging impact on the animal from not developing past the zygote stage to been a train wreck animal, no reason to think other super forms don’t have less significant issues


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

I have seen small/missing eyes in timber rattlesnakes, Indian python, Sonoran gopher snakes, and other snakes. All with normal coloration. In mice there is at least one mutant gene that causes microophthalmia. In pigs, vitamin A deficiency can cause congenital missing eyes (Lee Russell McDowell, Vitamins in animal nutrition). So this is not a simple subject. I'd like to see someone take a brother/sister pair with small/missing eyes and raise them while supplementing the food well. Seeing what their offspring are like might throw some light of the subject.


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