# Black Pearl



## MrMike

We have been through almost every possible combination, but wanted opinions of others. What would you cross a BP to? And why?


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## Big Red One

MrMike said:


> We have been through almost every possible combination, but wanted opinions of others. What would you cross a BP to? And why?
> 
> image


 
Showoff...... :whistling2:

:lol2:

TBH Mike - I'd have no idea where to start with these !!!


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## MrMike

Big Red One said:


> Showoff...... :whistling2:
> 
> :lol2:


Guilty as charged :whistling2:




Big Red One said:


> TBH Mike - I'd have no idea where to start with these !!!


Bah, surely you can think of something!


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## gazz

MrMike said:


> We have been through almost every possible combination, but wanted opinions of others. What would you cross a BP to? And why?
> 
> image


A Bog standed Normal and another Black pearl.So we can first establish 100% FACT the way there genetics work.Before we start throwing other morph into the mix.


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## MrMike

gazz said:


> A Bog standed Normal and another Black pearl.So we can first establish 100% FACT the way there genetics work.Before we start throwing other morph into the mix.


True, TUG should have that information pretty soon by all accounts. They are 99% sure it is recessive (as of last week), just waiting on hatches themselves to prove it.


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## reptile_man_08

Tremper albino.
Dunno why, just think it would look cool..


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## LoveGeckos.com

Nice Black Pearl you have there Mike.

I really didn't like them, but the more I see them the more they have grown on me.

I am more interested to know the genetics behind it. 

I guess you only have a female? That would make it a little more tricky. If it was a male, well I would breed it to a few morphs and bred back, provinding it was recessive.

Since you have only one choice it would have to go with ......


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## Keir64

Maybe a DB? .. I'm not good with genetics so don't listen lol


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## MrMike

reptile_man_08 said:


> Tremper albino.
> Dunno why, just think it would look cool..


All albino strains in leopard gecko reduce the colour of melanin, changing the black to a brown colour. Unless you mix Bell and Enigma however.....



LoveGeckos.com said:


> Nice Black Pearl you have there Mike.
> 
> I really didn't like them, but the more I see them the more they have grown on me.
> 
> I am more interested to know the genetics behind it.
> 
> I guess you only have a female? That would make it a little more tricky. If it was a male, well I would breed it to a few morphs and bred back, provinding it was recessive.
> 
> Since you have only one choice it would have to go with ......


We are in contact with TUG and they are going to keep us updated on their results. As I say, they believe it is a simple recessive trait, which complicates things when you only have one female.
TUG have only released females so far, we are looking into getting a male when they are released as well, but we don't know when that will be. Obviously having a male will help things immensly.


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## MrMike

Keir64 said:


> Maybe a DB? .. I'm not good with genetics so don't listen lol


The eclipse and blizzard may be something to look into definately. Not too sure on the Tremper albino however.


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## gazz

MrMike said:


> True, TUG should have that information pretty soon by all accounts. They are 99% sure it is recessive (as of last week), just waiting on hatches themselves to prove it.


Yep but your better off doing for your self as TUG is a bit broad spektrum.one word Phantom:whistling2: that they are Talbino snow,Talbino hypo snows,Talbino super hypo snow'etc.Oh and the other Sunglow:whistling2: that there Talbino super hypo tangerine,Talbino hypo tangerine,Talbino tangerine.That tell he that getting done to knowing the genetic is't fully on there minds.

Then when you found out go with a Talbino eclipse to get some Eclipse black pearls.


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## Keir64

Enigma sounds cool, or what about a hypermelanistic?


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## gazz

Keir64 said:


> Enigma sounds cool, or what about a hypermelanistic?


Black pearl is a hypermelanistic: victory:.


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## Keir64

My bad lol.. Well home come black pearls are way £3000 and ive seen hypermelanistics for like £400? :S confusing me thinks lol


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## MrMike

gazz said:


> Yep but your better off doing for your self as TUG is a bit broad spektrum.one word Phantom:whistling2: that they are Talbino snow,Talbino hypo snows,Talbino super hypo snow'etc.Oh and the other Sunglow:whistling2: that there Talbino super hypo tangerine,Talbino hypo tangerine,Talbino tangerine.That tell he that getting done to knowing the genetic is't fully on there minds.
> 
> Then when you found out go with a Talbino eclipse to get some Eclipse black pearls.


You are a stickler for trade names 

We know the crosses TUG have in the pipeline, and they will know the method of inheritance before we pair up. I'm not sure what would be gained from us proving it out as well?


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## MrMike

Keir64 said:


> My bad lol.. Well home come black pearls are way £3000 and ive seen hypermelanistics for like £400? :S confusing me thinks lol


Where have you seen *HYPER*melanistics for £400?


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## LoveGeckos.com

gazz said:


> Black pearl is a hypermelanistic: victory:.


I am still laughing, best response of the night :2thumb:

You need to get some Patternless in there somehow, a Patternless BP would be great. 

I see a few TUG sold were 66% Poss Het Patternless, was yours?

Although I am not sure what colour you would get in the second generation.


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## MrMike

LoveGeckos.com said:


> I am still laughing, best response of the night :2thumb:
> 
> You need to get some Patternless in there somehow, a Patternless BP would be great.
> 
> I see a few TUG sold were 66% Poss Het Patternless, was yours?
> 
> Although I am not sure what colour you would get in the second generation.


Konrad at LAG did those intial pairings before TUG bought them. Our girl is pure BP with no known hets.
We have discussed the patternless idea, but thought blizzard may be a better option? Not sure if the black would come through over the blizzard though, maybe low incubation would help?


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## Keir64

Tremper Albino Leopard Geckos from JMG Reptile
First one, Hypermelanistic het RAPTOR. $700 which would be about £366.


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## Keir64

Or theres this one, New Product SEO Title , looks pretty similar to yours, $250 which is about £130


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## MrMike

Keir64 said:


> Tremper Albino Leopard Geckos from JMG Reptile
> First one, Hypermelanistic het RAPTOR. $700 which would be about £366.


Ahh I see. If I remember rightly, they have come from JMGs "Charcoal" lines. Whilst technically hypermelanistic, they don't reach adulthood very dark.
Also, the Charcoals are a selective bred trait, whereas Black Pearl is looking like a seperate simple recessive mutation.


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## LoveGeckos.com

I like no hets.

The problem if black pearl is reccessive, and you put it with a blizzard reccessive, then you are going to need a fair few blizzards, to hit the odds in second year.

I happen to have about thirty blizzards, £5 each :whistling2:

Edit:
I forgot you only have a female, ignore me !!!


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## MrMike

LoveGeckos.com said:


> I like no hets.
> 
> The problem if black pearl is reccessive, and you put it with a blizzard reccessive, then you are going to need a fair few blizzards, to hit the odds in second year.
> 
> I happen to have about thirty blizzards, £5 each :whistling2:


lmao! I already have a full house of blizzards  And most other things actually, I need a bigger house.....

If it does prove recessive, then we have that problem combining to anything.


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## Lisasgeckonursery

There are so many possibilities! Blizzard, Enigma and Bell would be my preferences or a black velvet designer male might be interesting although you might not want to mix the two morphs. I wonder if Bell and Enigma might do some interesting things with regards to eye colour? Only time will tell eh. 
I bet you guys are really excited.


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## gazz

MrMike said:


> lmao! I already have a full house of blizzards  And most other things actually, I need a bigger house.....
> 
> If it does prove recessive, then we have that problem combining to anything.


Put the Black pearl with a Talbino eclipse blizzard and make true genetic Midnight blizzards some really meaning(Eclipse blizzard black pearl).

So if recessice.

FIRST.

Talbino eclipse blizzard X Black pearl = .

Normal HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.

THEN.

Normal HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl X Normal HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl = .

Normal Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse normal Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino normal Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse normal Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse aberrant Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Hyper aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse hyper aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino hyper aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse hyper aberrant Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse striped Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse reverse striped Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Blizzard,Black pearl.
Black pearl Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl Poss-HET Blizzard.
Black pearl aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl aberrant Poss-HET Blizzard.
Black pearl hyper aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl hyper aberrant Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl hyper aberrant Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl hyper aberrant Poss-HET Blizzard.
Black pearl striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl striped Poss-HET Blizzard.
Black pearl reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl reverse striped Poss-HET Blizzard.
Black pearl patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Blizzard.
Eclipse Black pearl patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Talbino,Blizzard.
Talbino Black pearl patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Eclipse,Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse Black pearl patternless reverse striped Poss-HET Blizzard.
Blizzard Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse,Black pearl.
Eclipse blizzard Poss-HET Talbino,Black pearl.
Talbino blizzard Poss-HET Eclipse,Black pearl.
Talbino eclipse blizzard Poss-HET Black pearl.
Blizzard black pearl Poss-HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Eclipse blizzard black pearl Poss-HET Talbino.
Talbino blizzard black pearl Poss-HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse blizzard black pearl.


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## excession

I cant wait to see what you decide to go with.

Out of interest how big / old is your new girl? 

I like the idea of a patternless with red eyes too


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## MrMike

gazz said:


> Put the Black pearl with a Talbino eclipse blizzard and make true genetic Midnight blizzards some really meaning(Eclipse blizzard black pearl).
> 
> So if recessice.


Quad hets...... you like a challange?


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## GlasgowGecko

Hey guys,

Firstly Mike, I bet you are happy to have got your hands on one.
Secondly, I would suggest the chances of this mutation ONLY being simple recessive, are in my opinion pretty low. There may of course be recessive elements, but I suspect that the amount of variation show between individuals suggests its a polygenic trait.

This is only speculation of course, but IF it proves to be simple recessive, and there is this much variation in the intensity of black, I expect people (in 5-6 years time) will be selling quite poor examples as black pearls which would be a real shame.

Any way, best of luck.

Andy


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## funky1

You know you have to go Calico - highlight those white sides (excellent foil/contrast) and deepen the melanine in one fell swoop.


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## sam12345

GlasgowGecko said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Firstly Mike, I bet you are happy to have got your hands on one.
> Secondly, I would suggest the chances of this mutation ONLY being simple recessive, are in my opinion pretty low. There may of course be recessive elements, but I suspect that the amount of variation show between individuals suggests its a polygenic trait.
> 
> This is only speculation of course, but IF it proves to be simple recessive, and there is this much variation in the intensity of black, I expect people (in 5-6 years time) will be selling quite poor examples as black pearls which would be a real shame.
> 
> Any way, best of luck.
> 
> Andy


Andy, I think people are under the illusion that at the moment these animals develop back into the extreme solid black animal they were when they hatched.
I think this is because of the lack of adult and subadult pictures released. Before TUG got these it had never even been questioned because Living Art only released hatchling pics.

I think the variation a lot of people see is between the different stages. Of course there are going to be better examples as there is with any morph.
Don't get ne wrong I strongly believe that this morph will be diluted and enhanced massively when they become more readily available and then certainly it won't just be a single simple ressesive mutation but at the moment, looking at results we've been given and spoken about ressesive fits best.


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## MrMike

GlasgowGecko said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Firstly Mike, I bet you are happy to have got your hands on one.
> Secondly, I would suggest the chances of this mutation ONLY being simple recessive, are in my opinion pretty low. There may of course be recessive elements, but I suspect that the amount of variation show between individuals suggests its a polygenic trait.
> 
> This is only speculation of course, but IF it proves to be simple recessive, and there is this much variation in the intensity of black, I expect people (in 5-6 years time) will be selling quite poor examples as black pearls which would be a real shame.
> 
> Any way, best of luck.
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy,

I personally thought polygenic to start as well. As Sam has said, the "developmental stages" caused quite a bit of controversy before TUG released the information. Unfortunately, we only have TUGs information to go on. Next year we will have hatchlings so can add our results to the pot. Exciting times indeed!



funky1 said:


> You know you have to go Calico - highlight those white sides (excellent foil/contrast) and deepen the melanine in one fell swoop.


There is so much variation in the Calicos from what I have seen. From the superb "Paradox blizzard Calico" Gazz posted to some run-of-the-mill Hypo looking animals. Also, I'm not sure on the inheritance of Calicos myself.
Definately an avenue to look into though, along with everything else!


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## kirsten

I love gazz "true" midnight blizzard idea, i think that'd be stunning, the best bet at getting a completely black patternless animal!!:mf_dribble::mf_dribble:

i'd personally like to see the effect the enigma trait would have on the situation, and i'd love to see bell black pearls. basically i think the melanistic trait need to be preserved, and putting hypo in there defeats the object, adding an albino in there can still be interesting, tbh, i think the pattern morphs and eye traits are going to be the most interesting results, orange enigma eye BP's, bell eclipse BP's, striped, reverse striped, alsorts, i think the possibilities are endless, and it's fantastic and i'm very envious of being at the fore front of a new mutation.

or another option is.... don't play with it! keep it pure (so first year, breed to the most melanistic normal you can lay your hands on) and line breed to gain pure black adults.

these are just a few of the posibilities i'd be considering if they were mine to play with.


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## sam12345

kirsten said:


> I love gazz "true" midnight blizzard idea, i think that'd be stunning, the best bet at getting a completely black patternless animal!!:mf_dribble::mf_dribble:
> 
> i'd personally like to see the effect the enigma trait would have on the situation, and i'd love to see bell black pearls. basically i think the melanistic trait need to be preserved, and putting hypo in there defeats the object, adding an albino in there can still be interesting, tbh, i think the pattern morphs and eye traits are going to be the most interesting results, orange enigma eye BP's, bell eclipse BP's, striped, reverse striped, alsorts, i think the possibilities are endless, and it's fantastic and i'm very envious of being at the fore front of a new mutation.
> 
> or another option is.... don't play with it! keep it pure (so first year, breed to the most melanistic normal you can lay your hands on) and line breed to gain pure black adults.
> 
> these are just a few of the posibilities i'd be considering if they were mine to play with.


I think what every one wants to see is a red eyed black pearl lol.

Hopefully we wont be too restricted with our projects soon, and will have the opportunity to start producing various black pearl hets for combos, as well as keeping the whole thing pure with the aim of the solid black gecko that everyones after!


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## Danny12345

I am new to the forum but i have read alot about the black pearl and i love them.

Would love to see a solid black Leo with red eyes.


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## Slurm

i think 2 lines for the start, lets be realistic id love to see it crossed with loads but with options limited.....

Firstly id like to see some good old fashion line breeding for increased velveting:2thumb:

The other route i'd take would be a RADAR, then the following year with the offspring a bell enigma(interesting to see the effect of them 2), a bell blizzard(should be more common by then) and of course a nice radar again(bell and eclipse). 

I see a radar as giving maximum options in the shortest time, and lets face it whilst you may be the first, time is ticking before others get them....

second thoughts i could always pimp one of my SSBE's to you for a small fee, by small i mean hatchling or 2...:whistling2:


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## MrMike

Slurm said:


> second thoughts i could always pimp one of my SSBE's to you for a small fee, by small i mean hatchling or 2...:whistling2:


Cheers for the offer, but e have those genes covered


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## Slurm

yeah i am aware of that, so getting back to the BP, whats your intial thoughts on ways to go..


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## kirsten

sam12345 said:


> I think what every one wants to see is a red eyed black pearl lol.


i imagine the best bet with that then, would be a bell eclipse black pearl, however, how are you planning on counteracting the impact of albinsm, which is required for the eye colour, but would detract melanin?


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## Slurm

yeah that was my concern when i said a while back that red eye might not be possible, to one of mike earlier threads

Albino in its very definition is no black pigmentation, interesting times ahead....


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## sparkle

You guys..

make it simple and just buy a CAVE GECKO instead!!!!!!!!!!!! 











:no1:


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## Big Red One

Sparkle 

my thoughts entirely....

So I am ....... :mf_dribble:
:whistling2:


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## funky1

Big Red One said:


> Sparkle
> 
> my thoughts entirely....
> 
> So I am ....... :mf_dribble:
> :whistling2:


OI!!!

I need names, places, numbers etc, etc - or Santa`s gonna be deliverying a whole load more cans of whoop ass than he thought!!! 

:blowup: :roll2:


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