# Does Any One Know What Morph These Beardies Are



## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

We have crossed a Male eastern and southern Australian beardie (Pogona barbata) with a Female central Australian beardie (Pogona vitticeps) snow morph. The babys they have produced are green, blue and orange. We have had 13 hatch from there first clutch (now 3 months old), 20 hatch from there second (just hatched) and 25 eggs in the incubator.

Dad









Mum









Babys


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

Are you sure the dad's _P. barbata_? They're not exactly what you'd call "common"...

If so they'd be a coloured _vitticeps_ x _barbata_ hybrid.


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

Hi, thats what he was sold as, and we have checked out his picture with google and it looks like he is what they said he was, the babies are getting more and more colour with age, will anybody have any the same to see if they breed true when they get older, if not what do we breed them with, thankyou, Shaza


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

mothershaza said:


> Hi, thats what he was sold as, and we have checked out his picture with google and it looks like he is what they said he was, the babies are getting more and more colour with age, will anybody have any the same to see if they breed true when they get older, if not what do we breed them with, thankyou, Shaza


To be honest I've never seen a true _P. barbata_ in the UK, hence why I asked if that's what he really was... Because of that I doubt anyone else would have any to pair the babies to. 

There are reports around (mostly in German) about the original "German Giant" beardies coming about after several _P. barbata_ x _P. vitticeps_ crosses, although in the early days a lot of the babies were supposedly hatching with deformities because the two species don't cross that well in their pure form... If that's true and all of your hatchlings have come out fine, that would also make me somewhat suspicious.

Where did he come from?


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

hi, we got him from mold, flintshire and they got him from a reptile shop some where down south, do you have any idea what he is if you think he is not what they said he was. thanks shaza


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

If he's not a _P. barbata_, he'll be a normal phase _P. vitticeps_. The differences are fairly subtle though. How long / heavy is he?


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

hi, he is dark charcoal gray all over with orange diamonds running down his back, the picture doesn’t she his true colours, he weighs 274g he is 17" full length (7"nose to vent). Here’s 2 more pics of him iv just taken. thanks shaza


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

hope this helps determine of you have barbarta
to me he looks like an inland
Pogona vitticeps:
Usually pink mouth
1-2 rows of long spines along flanks
Row of spines along back of head is usually straight

Pogona barbata:
Usually yellow mouth
Many rows of long spines along flanks
Row of spines along back of head is usually curved backwards


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

hi, just had a look at him and yes he has a yellow mouth and he has 2-3 rows of long spines along his flanks. many thanks shaza


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

weeminx said:


> hope this helps determine of you have barbarta
> to me he looks like an inland
> Pogona vitticeps:
> Usually pink mouth
> ...


Very true - I got an Aussie breeder to have a look at the photos and his first though was _vitticeps_. What colour is the inside of the mouth? A photo would help a lot - hold the sides of his head in one hand, and pull down on his beard with your other hand to open his mouth. When he flares his beard, is is significantly wider than his head?


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

just taken these pictures,


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

still convinced its an inland to be honest.
just had a look in my inlands mouth and he has yellow too.
does his spines at back of head curl backwards?
whats his temprement like,barbarta are alot more fiesty than an inland.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

some barbata pictures for comparison
http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/tbiol/zoology/herp/fullsize/AB%20Pogona%20barbata.JPG
http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/images/newswatch/Eastern_Bearded_Dragon__Pogona_barbata.JPG
http://www.kingsnake.com/oz/lizards/agamids/pbarbata.jpg


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

Hi, this female came with him she too has a yellow mouth, both do not like being handled, she flares her beard all the time and makes noises like a frog when ever we go near the viv, also in the morning and at night as the lights go off, it is a deep gutteral sound, their spines are different to all our other beardies more chunkier.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

looking at those last pictures and the spines at back of neck going straight up i think your right it is barbata.
:2thumb:
also the way you describe the behaviour and noise id say this was barbata behaviour too.

:2thumb:


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

weeminx said:


> looking at those last pictures and the spines at back of neck going straight up i think your right it is barbata.
> :2thumb:
> also the way you describe the behaviour and noise id say this was barbata behaviour too.
> 
> :2thumb:


Personally it looks like a total normal beardie to me. I dont see anything that is distinctively something else....


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks hun, so now how do we move on from here?, how do we describe the babies, as we now have two batches and one clutch in the incubator, and when they are older what do we breed them with to accentuate thier colour,its not going to be possible to see if they breed true without putting brother to sister and I dont think that would be a good thing to do, they are more copper than orange so we call them our copper dragons, Shaza.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

:lol2: 
see now after seeing the next pictures im saying inland again :lol2:

bloody camera angles :lol2:

just had my beardies out looking in mouths and counting spines :bash:

its all so confusing lol


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

ok heres an identification site
this should help
Pogona Identification Key


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

apparantly barbata dont have the white banding on tha tails.i do see banding on yours :bash: sorry to have confused the issue more


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

hi, we have just been on that site and now im really confused as they came out as pogona nullabor or pogona nullarbor. they are not found in the pet trade. HELP.


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

hi just been on this site and looking at the picturs the barbata has white bands on its tail, this is really getting me confused, i put this post on here to find out the morph of my babies now i dont even know that type/species of bearded dragon iv got. lol lol
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/11/04701651/0470165111.pdf


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

They look normal to me. I thought Barbata are larger than usual? At 17" yours isn't even a big normal beardie.


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

i got told by the person i bought them off they were pogona barbata, now after going on the site weeminx asked me to go on in link 19 or 20 they have come out as pogona nullabor or pogona nullarbor. Then i went on http://media.wiley.com/product_data/...0470165111.pdf and looked at the different types/species of bearded dragon, when i looked at the picture of the pogona barbata on page 14 it lookes like ours (bar our male having orange diamonds down his back and the female being a lighter colour).


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

Realistically it's only going to be _P. vitticeps_, with an extreme outside chance of being _P. barbata_. It's not a Lawson's (_P. henrylawsoni_) and the other _Pogona sp._ are virtually non-existent in the pet trade.

One of the key features of a _barbata_ is the size of the beard - look at these guys:




















From reading through a couple of Australian forums, they are apparently easily distinguishable from _vitticeps_ by the beard alone. The beard is wider than the head (unlike _vitticeps_), is much longer than a normal _vitticeps_ beard, and is so large it curls forwards, rather than being wedge-shaped.

Unless yours has a beard that is *that* much different to a regular _vitticeps_ beard, I'd say that it's just an unusually marked _vitticeps_. In that case the babies would be "normal" phase.

If it does have a significantly larger beard than usual, there may be a case for it being a _barbata_. It's unlikely but not impossible. In that case the babies would be described as being *(possible)*_ barbata_ x _vitticeps_ hybrids.

The female doesn't look at all like a _barbata_ - there's too much colour for a start. If they were both sold as being the same species, I'd say it's much more likely that there was an error with the ID'ing and they're both _vitticeps_...


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## mothershaza (Oct 11, 2006)

The bottom picture looks very much like him so could he be a possible cross, we have been keeping beardies for a few years and run a local reptile rescue centre for the RSPCA and he is so different to our others and others we have seen, what ever he is he is different and his babies are lovely, regards Shaza.


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