# Defector from reptile camp!!



## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

Well, partial defector actually....

I've always been into reps, and I was reminded recently about how impressed I was with a skunk I saw once at some butterfly farm thing near sheffield.. (the girlfriend wanted to go.. 

So, having a fair sized wish-list of reps, (BD's actually, 4 of em..) I tried very hard not to think about skunks.. But, I'm a "research addict", so couldnt help it.. everything I read is making them look even more desirable, and its got the the point where I'm going to downsize my reptile wishlist to make room for a Skunk..... or 2.

Even after all the reading, still a few questions though, so if anyone can help.... (thank missed train and plane's, and airport wifi for the research time)..

The feeding is the main one, I'll be setting up a dubia roach colony for the dragons, can skunks safely eat and digest roaches?? I mean as a staple rather than a "treat"?? And if so does anyone know what the actually intake value would be?? And if feeding roaches is ok, what should this replace in their diet?? I see a lot of people feed cooked chicken, logically it would seem that roaches would replace the meat content, but at what ratio's and the like???

Vets, read a thread on here about vets ranging from being unbelievable helpful, to idiots who should be shot... If (when) I get skunked-up... I think I'll only deal with a vet on direct recommendation, and I don't mind traveling, so if anyone has any.....let me know.

There's actually loads more I want to know, but I'm supposed to be looking at houses, so I'll leave it there for now...)))

I'm actually trying to find myself reasons to NOT have a pair of black and whites running around eating the walls... but I'm not doing well....)


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## liam.b (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm also getting a skunk soon and I'm where you are although I think I would be alright now, where the feeding is conserned I can tell you the roach won't be a suitable diet as they require a 90/10 veg/protein diet there are goo list out there of what they can eat, but ask Someone with alot more experiance I'd they can eat them occasionaly. Good luck with your skunk/s I'm iy getting the one cause then I can fully concentrate and play with the one, also gotta be albino I much prefer them to black/White I think it's because they remind me of my old massive albino ferret that was lovely and my fav animal ever lol


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

liam.b said:


> I'm also getting a skunk soon and I'm where you are although I think I would be alright now, where the feeding is conserned I can tell you the roach won't be a suitable diet as they require a 90/10 veg/protein diet there are goo list out there of what they can eat, but ask Someone with alot more experiance I'd they can eat them occasionaly. Good luck with your skunk/s I'm iy getting the one cause then I can fully concentrate and play with the one, also gotta be albino I much prefer them to black/White I think it's because they remind me of my old massive albino ferret that was lovely and my fav animal ever lol


Could you explain why roaches aren't suitable?? I've also seen lots of info out there on what to feed them, some say grapes are ok for example, some say not.. Having been told by someone with direct experience to keep away from grapes/sultanas etc, I wont be feeding them, no matter how many care sheets they appear on.

It seems its better to get confirmation of what's seen on caresheets, rather than just going ahead and doing it, purely because of that example with the grapes.


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi,

I can highly recommend www.exotickeepersforum.co.uk , as there is a skunk den section where you can read up on care etc. As far as the roaches go, You could probably use them as protein replacement say one day a week, or as treats. I don't know what their nutrient composition would be, but something like chicken is ideal high quality protein and I don't think roaches would be anywhere near as good nutritionally - possibly higher in fat too? 

Grapes and raisins should be avoided, as there have been cases of fatal reactions to them - you wouldn't want to try it and find your skunk is one of the ones with that reaction!

Hope this info helps!


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

My three love adult roaches and they are very nutricious when gut loaded.
There are no hard and fast rules feeding a skunkie but as above around 90 per cent veg, little fruit, rest protien (egg, bugs, mice-occasional, chicken, c. liver, you get the picture!). I find keeping it simple best as they will eat a wide range of foods, as for roaches as a staple, may be ok but I would offer variety. Sprinkle a little vitaskunk or sa37, failing that nutrabol occasionally on thier meals and you are away.
Finally, as mentioned, try joining EKF, plenty of info there.
Oh and get used to refusing food, they will eat you out of house and home if ya let em!!!!
Just my happeneth, plenty of owners out there with good knowledge and fair few websites. Avoid getting too technical....
Assuming you in Sheffs area, regards vets, I use Aiden at Ashliegh in Manchester and have always found him good!

Dave


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## liam.b (Sep 2, 2006)

stuckmojo said:


> Could you explain why roaches aren't suitable?? I've also seen lots of info out there on what to feed them, some say grapes are ok for example, some say not.. Having been told by someone with direct experience to keep away from grapes/sultanas etc, I wont be feeding them, no matter how many care sheets they appear on.
> 
> It seems its better to get confirmation of what's seen on caresheets, rather than just going ahead and doing it, purely because of that example with the grapes.


I didn't say don't use them I just ment that skunks have a reltively low protein need so they wouldn't need alot and to ask other people if roaches can actually be used as in can the skunks digest them but that's been awnsered here.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

....and plenty of kits around now...........and soon:whistling2:.


Dave.


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## liam.b (Sep 2, 2006)

sam gamgee said:


> ....and plenty of kits around now...........and soon:whistling2:.
> 
> 
> Dave.


I know lol I'll be wanting one around nov time and knowing my luck there won't be any


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

Loderuna said:


> Hi,
> 
> I can highly recommend www.exotickeepersforum.co.uk , as there is a skunk den section where you can read up on care etc. As far as the roaches go, You could probably use them as protein replacement say one day a week, or as treats. I don't know what their nutrient composition would be, but something like chicken is ideal high quality protein and I don't think roaches would be anywhere near as good nutritionally - possibly higher in fat too?
> 
> ...


Thanks for that!! No way would I even attempt the raisens or grapes, seeing it written once, and having it told to me was enough, I'm already on with the skunkden on exotickeepers forum, its pretty good, if a little short. Basically I'm saving every care-sheet I ca find, then reading and comparing them, then researching any points that they have in common, basically the norm for any animal that I'm responsible for. 

I am quite interested on the nutritional composition of roaches for skunks actually, plus other benefits too, with Dubia's being quite slow-moving, I was thinking of a combined food/excercise thing, and they'll actually have to "chase" them down....) although seeing as cooked chicken seems to be very popular, they'll be getting that, and maybe roaches as a treat/supplement for adult skunks is the way to go, and see how they like it.... I'm just getting my head around the Tuarine thing at the moment, as well as trying to find a new house, move my stuff from one country to another etc etc.. life getting in the way and all that....

Another point, I read on someone else's thread that they had given chicken "bits" to their skunk's, that contained very small bits of bone, skin etc, and had noticed an inproved health of their skunk, especially in eyes and coat.. I was going with the theory that a roach would be a smaller, easier digestible version of the same thing, after all, a skunk's natural diet would contain more insect than chicken, and there would also be the benefit of being able to gut-load the roaches prior to feeding, calcium and vit c etc... This would negate the argument about wild skunks shorter life-span attributed to the insect part of their diet...


Bit of a ramble, but any thoughts??


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

sam gamgee said:


> ....and plenty of kits around now...........and soon:whistling2:.
> 
> 
> Dave.


I think I'm gonna miss it to be honest, although starting tomorrow I'm commencing plan "work my ass off" in order to not miss it....

I've mailed yer man Seb already, no reply as yet. I've also been reading through all breeders threads on here, ordering them for preference etc... (All Hail the OCD King!!..)

I'm all for breeders vetting buyers.. I just think more buyers should vet breeders too...


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

sam gamgee said:


> My three love adult roaches and they are very nutricious when gut loaded.
> There are no hard and fast rules feeding a skunkie but as above around 90 per cent veg, little fruit, rest protien (egg, bugs, mice-occasional, chicken, c. liver, you get the picture!). I find keeping it simple best as they will eat a wide range of foods, as for roaches as a staple, may be ok but I would offer variety. Sprinkle a little vitaskunk or sa37, failing that nutrabol occasionally on thier meals and you are away.
> Finally, as mentioned, try joining EKF, plenty of info there.
> Oh and get used to refusing food, they will eat you out of house and home if ya let em!!!!
> ...


I didnt even see this Dave, I've seen Vitaskunk mentioned so I'm just about to read up on that for the Taurine content.. basically, I'm seeing the roaches as a "treat" for them to go at during the day, but also as an allocated part of their requirement... I had the thought from a thread where one lady mentioned she made her skunks food in advance, with all the dietary requirements in. Then removed a handful, kept that back and used it as treats... 

from everything I've read so far, it doesnt seem that is one wonder-diet, that will keep the skunk at a perfect weight and health as long as you feed the right amount, it just looks like a case of feed what it wants and keep checking weight.... Obviously it's all made more entertaining by the fact that a skunk just keep eating whatever you put in front of it, so you cant use "its stopped eating now" as a gauge.....

greedy little devils, that's probably why I like em... the weird thing is, all this is probably going to make me eat better too....


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Feeding raw chicken - I give my adult skunks a raw chicken wing now and again. The baby skunks stole my dog's beef bone this afternoon and were getting the marrow out of it!

Taurine supplementation is not necessary if a balanced diet is fed. It is found in eggs, meat and fish.

Enrichment for skunks is essential - I put mealies into treatballs for mine, or scatter them in a tray of pebbles so they have to turn the stones over to find the goodies. Roaches would be good too, but might take some training, as skunk eyesight is not great - the roaches may be slow moving, but I still wouldn't want them loose in my house!! :gasp:

I'm all for people vetting breeders. I've actively encouraged people to come and see how I look after my skunks - they get to judge me and my animals and I get to see how they behave with the animals and ask them lots of questions too! It's a 2-way process - if both sides have the animal's best interests at heart, then the animal wins!


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

It might have been your thread that I read, as I saw it mentioned in a couple of different ones.... Which to me makes it worth chasing up..

The "enrichment" thing is part of what I was thinking, with the majority of their food being served up in a bowl, and treats maybe by hand, I thought it could be beneficial, and almost a cross between play/food, for them to have to chase-down something live... I use the word "chase" very loosely obviously...

See, this is a good example, Most caresheets I've read have different ideas of what "balanced" actually is, and I'm sure I;ve seen in a couple of places that regardless of what we consider to be a balanced diet, taurine should still be supplemented. I dont know either way which is why I'm digging.. What exactly is it supposed to provide to the skunk? And what for? And does anyone know if it's something that can be overdosed on?? I'm guessing this VitaSkunk stuff (sounds like a hydro product..) would contain "top-up" vitamins for anything that's missing in their solid diet..

Admittedly, I've not searched out those last points for myself yet..


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

and this "*if both sides have the animal's best interests at heart, then the animal wins*!" is the perfect quote....and pretty much sums it all up....


After reading a few choice threads on here, I think the above is a phrase that some people need tattooing on the inside of their eyelids....


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

stuckmojo said:


> and this "*if both sides have the animal's best interests at heart, then the animal wins*!" is the perfect quote....and pretty much sums it all up....
> 
> 
> After reading a few choice threads on here, I think the above is a phrase that some people need tattooing on the inside of their eyelids....


 : victory::no1::2thumb:: victory::2thumb::no1:


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

*Bad eyesight.....*

...this is true.....ish, I think. When on the run, they kinda bump into things........

However and, yes, maybe it is smell, dunno but you wanna see em go for insects, even fast ones (crickets etc). They move some and are accurate too! Even thouhg he is properly fed Ollie, our male, thinks he has never been fed before once he knows there is an insect to be had. Really funny, too, he jumps on his food much more than the girlies.....

Good advice there from Lodders, (still dont know if you object me referring to you as that!!),and not easy having a skunk about the house but couldnt imagine life without em now..........


Dave.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

stuckmojo said:


> and this "*if both sides have the animal's best interests at heart, then the animal wins*!" is the perfect quote....and pretty much sums it all up....
> 
> 
> After reading a few choice threads on here, I think the above is a phrase that some people need tattooing on the inside of their eyelids....


 

Yad be rite!

Dave.


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Vita skunk is a vitamin and mineral supplement - I only use it occasionally - for example, while my female skunk was pregnant and nursing and during the colder parts of the winter when their bodies are under more stress.

Taurine is an amino acid; amino acids make proteins and are used in other biological molecules like enzymes. Some amino acids the body can make, others we must eat as part of our dietary protein. Taurine is generally found in small amounts in vegetable matter, so it can be deficient in some animal diets, esp where the animal would not naturally eat such a high amount of veg. Taurine is found in meat, eggs, fish and dairy products. So endeth the science!! (Sorry - used to be a lecturer :blush

Dave: Lodders is fine - my real name is Sue!

About raw meat - coincidentally, I just removed a very mangled baby blackbird from Lavender's nestbox. She had eaten some of it and vomited it into her play tunnel. I have no idea how it got in there!  Fortunately, the babies have been rampaging round the house with me, so they didn't get to try!


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

Loderuna said:


> Vita skunk is a vitamin and mineral supplement - I only use it occasionally - for example, while my female skunk was pregnant and nursing and during the colder parts of the winter when their bodies are under more stress.
> 
> Taurine is an amino acid; amino acids make proteins and are used in other biological molecules like enzymes. Some amino acids the body can make, others we must eat as part of our dietary protein. Taurine is generally found in small amounts in vegetable matter, so it can be deficient in some animal diets, esp where the animal would not naturally eat such a high amount of veg. Taurine is found in meat, eggs, fish and dairy products. So endeth the science!! (Sorry - used to be a lecturer :blush
> 
> ...


Science lessons are fine with me, it was and still is my favorite subject... The tattoos and piercings are just to disctract from the fact I'm a big science/animal/book geek..)))

Dave, you're not really helping when it comes to reasons why I SHOULDNT have a black-and-white tornado pulling my house to bits...)) I cant wait to see em "sprinting" after insects.. 

So, the taurine thing really is just an additive for a specific purposes then?? I just read a care sheet recently (dont ask me to find it, I already tried) where it recommends 250mg per day regardless of diet....

Also, the "skunk first aid kit"... containing a syringe with honey, latex gloves and icing sugar... Anything else needed?? Other than the patience of several saints...?


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

*Lodders...*

In that case hello Sue!:2thumb:

Dave.


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

stuckmojo said:


> So, the taurine thing really is just an additive for a specific purposes then?? I just read a care sheet recently (dont ask me to find it, I already tried) where it recommends 250mg per day regardless of diet....


Possible someone with shares in a supplement company?? :whistling2:



> Also, the "skunk first aid kit"... containing a syringe with honey, latex gloves and icing sugar... Anything else needed?? Other than the patience of several saints...?


A strong index finger if you have a descented skunk. Full body armour if you fancy breeding, plus plenty of plasters! :lol2:


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

Loderuna said:


> Possible someone with shares in a supplement company?? :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> A strong index finger if you have a descented skunk. Full body armour if you fancy breeding, plus plenty of plasters! :lol2:


I agree with the Taurine thing, I was just thinking that actually whilst reading the feed instructions for my strawberry's...) Same principle.....

I dont at all fancy breeding them, to be honest it seems like living in the house with a mothering skunk and its kits, should actually be used as a punishment!!!!...)))) So although I would like a male and female, this is more so I can see the differences in personalty with the two, and have the chance to interact with both.. So obviously there will be a spaying and neutering session as soon as age permits...

Even were de-scenting legal, I'm still not sure of my thoughts on it.. Although I dont understand why the need for the strong index finger with a de-scented one?? Has de-scenting being proven as a cause of prolapse??

I've looked after wild farm cats before, I still have plasters, and skin on my hands like leather..)))


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

They arent all that bad on the biting front...been bit on the toe by Ollie (no reason!) and twice when we first got him (kept in a cage in pet store cage aggressive) and once by Petal (accident, had smell of peanut on my toe, lol).....Ellas kits are just under two weeks old, she has no probs with me/OH handling (only to check if fine etc.) them and allows us to stroke her head/nose, she was always chilled even though we got her at an awkward age and are third owners (breeder, owner, us). Love her to bits, she always seems cheerful and gotta say missing her company at moment. She has four very healthy looking sprogs.......all neatly packed with her.....


.....in the spare bedroom, under the bookcase, lol!!!!!!! Gonna need a new carpet/wooden floor after all this due to a few poorly placed poos although she is back to pooing in a box with a tray in now. She had been real tidy until the kits appeared.

Dave


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

stuckmojo said:


> Even were de-scenting legal, I'm still not sure of my thoughts on it.. Although I dont understand why the need for the strong index finger with a de-scented one?? Has de-scenting being proven as a cause of prolapse??
> 
> I've looked after wild farm cats before, I still have plasters, and skin on my hands like leather..)))


 
Some descented skunks are prone to prolapsing :gasp: hence the need for a stong index finger - to hold it all back in place :whistling2::lol2:


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

carlycharlie said:


> Some descented skunks are prone to prolapsing :gasp: hence the need for a stong index finger - to hold it all back in place :whistling2::lol2:


 
:lol2:Real nice wording there!

Dave


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

that basically seals my opinion on de-scenting then. Or it will as soon as I read/hear about it in a couple more places, I'm just doing a bit more research now... and I should be looking at houses!!!

I wasnt actually sure on the ethics of de-scenting, if it was still legal, and offered by a breeder, I think my only question would be "is it guaranteed to have no negative long-term effects".... And it seems like the answer would be "no"...

I guess I'll just have to use a cork fired from a spud-gun or something then.....


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## africa (Sep 12, 2008)

sam gamgee said:


> :lol2:Real nice wording there!
> 
> Dave


Very true, I spent many an evening with my finger up Tinkerbell and Merlins bottoms covered in manuka honey having pushed a prolapse back in :2thumb:


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

and would you say that was caused by the de-scenting???

And... I was under the impression that the honey went in at the other end for seizures?

Awesome subject, no end of possibilities for "carry-on" style comments..)


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

africa said:


> Very true, I spent many an evening with my finger up Tinkerbell and Merlins bottoms covered in manuka honey having pushed a prolapse back in :2thumb:


 
Mmmmmmm. I lurve honey!

Descenting is illegal in England, not so in Ireland......Ella is fully loaded, never seriously sprayed and doesnt smell:flrt:.



Ollie is descented.:no1:




And stinks.:bash:


Night all!

Dave.


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

sam gamgee said:


> Mmmmmmm. I lurve honey!
> 
> Descenting is illegal in England, not so in Ireland......Ella is fully loaded, never seriously sprayed and doesnt smell:flrt:.
> 
> ...


Cheers for your help fella, for me fully loaded and UK bred seems to be the way forward!!


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

stuckmojo said:


> and would you say that was caused by the de-scenting???
> 
> And... I was under the impression that the honey went in at the other end for seizures?
> 
> Awesome subject, no end of possibilities for "carry-on" style comments..)


 
Poor diet & worms can also play a part in prolapsing

I have 3 descented skunks & have never (thankfully) had my finger up any of their butts :whistling2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## stuckmojo (Jun 7, 2010)

*I have 3 descented skunks & have never (thankfully) had my finger up any of their butts

*I'm having that put on a t-shirt..)))))..

So, if the skunk's fully-loaded, that removes one likely cause of prolapse, a good diet will remove another, although when you say "poor", what do you mean? Obviously a diet that's lacking something, but what would a diet need to lack to cause a prolapse?? I'm guessing fibre maybe??

To be honest I'm pretty happy with what I know now... (or what I think I know).. Obviously the breeder I buy from will be providing a recommended food-sheet or something for the few weeks after getting them, and I'm happy with the "de-scented/fully loaded" issue....

Right, just need to sort out all my personal 'tings then I'll start hassling breeders..)) Still think I might miss this years though unfortunately... I'll try working a bit harder and see what happens..))


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