# BE VERY careful..



## sparkle

This thread is basically about a rfuk member running their rescue underhandadly... and abusing the trusting nature of RFUK members... 



May i first state that the majority of rescues I know are amazing they do great work and really are a credit to our hobby.... however last night I was very saddened and hurt by a person on MSN i thought was a decent bloke lying not only to me but noticeably and with proof other RFUkers,.



Unfortunately last night a thread was removed ( not started by me) where i stated several points that had come to my attention about a particular RFUK member and the way he operates on this forum. it only came to light when he tried to bully me into removing a perfectly nice post about his rescue... I had no idea he did not want his rescue on RFUK... so i asked him why and I asked other RFUK members why his paranoia about RFUK knowing he ran a rescue was soo high...

I have kept all the convos people sent me and the convos I had with him as proof.


he told me under no circumstances did he want RFUK members knowing he ran a rescue as he bred geckos and i received msn messages where he said to other members he also bred from the corns he rescued and then sold a lot of snakes on classifieds without mentioning they were indeed rescues.... this was also proved to be true when other RFUK forumites sent me convos from msn he had with them.


I was then alerted something was very wrong and received msn convos he has had with other members and messages from other rfukers showing his underhandedness within RFUK and the classifieds section. On many occasions snakes were for SALE not rehome in classifieds... I only checked and noticed this after receving info that he was asking other forumites to post I was an idiot and that I had got it al wrong and the snakes were NOT rescues etc.... he was trying topressure other members into posting negatively...

A moderator removed the thread on request of the person who runs the rescue as he stated he wished to keep his rescue completely seperate from RFUK, very soon after however i received messages from both t-bo and a moderator appologising.

During this situation I was shown MSN convos with several other RFUK members where he clearly stated that snakes he professed to be bought were indeed rescues and they were being either sold on or kept by him for breeding.

None of this particlarly bothered me and i had NOT stated any of this on the thread at that point. I was keeping schtum to gather more info from his other msn contacts.

My personal MSN convos with him showed him trying to persuade me to remove the link to his rescue site saying if i did not his house would be threatened by various well known and well respected members of the reptile community and he actually named them to me at this point. I explained I would not remove it ... and that if it was al above board he should have no reason to be paranoid.. at this point he became difficult .

During this convo he was also at the exact same time talking to other RFUK members begging them to say I had got it al wrong and I quote from saved MSN instant messages..


" just make something up about the corns..." this comment was in relation to conrs he had told other members had been rescues but had said to me intially WERE rescues then changed his mind 5 minutes later./.. his partner also posted they were bought snakes... yet he had told me and other RFUK members they were NOT bought... at that point i started to ask around regarding his actions with members of the forum i trust

He had repeatedly told different stories to members about the snakes... and I felt it was very undehand of him...

I was then told the reason he wishes to keep the rescue he runs seperate from RFUK is to enable him to sell the snakes on classifieds... ( and i was shown various proof from his msn convos with other forum members to clarify this)

reptile Taxi ( whom i trust implicitly and are completely unbiased) then informed me ( last night) that they at one point delivered to him virtually free ( rescued snakes) as he was a rescue then noticed him selling the snakes less than 48 hours later on RFUK classifieds... no mention these snakes were rescues at all.. therefore NO quarentine happening and NO fairness.

I have now had several emails form various people pointing out the way this rescue is run... it seems very underhanded and very strange that at least 6 people last night messaged me to say they knew of occasions where rescues had been sold within DAYS... I am sure we cant ALL be wrong...


I was messaged last night with an appology that my points had been removed and he explained he felt a wrong decision had occured on behalf of the moderator that removed the thread... it was also stated in this message the thread and my points should have been left for all to see and the post had been removed in haste

the reason I am starting this thread is to show how careful people need to be when buying on classifieds.. not everyhting is as it seems.. and to warn RFUK members that the forum is being USED wrongly by this person...

the person in question will know who they are when they read this... abd they should realise that they are now being closely watched... so they can either be honest and start using the forum correctly or suffer the consequences of continued lies and abuse of RFUK.



I have nothing personal against him and no reason to wish to upset him as they have been on my msn for months and I considred them decent people BUT had no idea either they ran a rescue... his words to me when i found out last night were.,. HOW THE HECK DID U FIND OUT WE RUN A RESCUE WE NEVER TELL ANYONE ON RFUK...

I have now removed them and do not wish to be any part of the underhandedness and unfairness he is displaying.

Sorry for the essay guys,, I had considered posting nothing but I am furious at this person trying to maniplate not only me but other RFUK forumites and the good nature of rep taxi girls.


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## captaincaveman

hmmm that sounds all a little weird, as i stated on another thread i personally dont care if rehomers sell, as long as the animals are well cared for and healthy and the buyer is happy with the price(not too keen on the whole reptile taxi or anyone else helping being duped into support, that is taking the p*ss somewhat), but his house would be threatened sounds a bit paranoid

theres a few members(well two) that i couldn't believe would try and make money at anyones expense on here, even to the point of dragging prices down, saying its the market price, just so they can make more profit

sad really


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## sparkle

He told me catagorically ( crap spelling i know) if i did not remove the perfectly nice post about this rescue he would be under threat and start receiving phonecalls in middle of night with threats... now i didnt get that for a start... the paranpia seemed intense... until it all came to light he was panicking on MSN at the same time with other RFUK members thathe had been caught out as he felt...


As i said if he wants to re-sell rescues fine.. BUT it should be made VERY clear on the advert especially if they have not been quarentined for at least a month... people should KNOW they are rescues otherwise i feel thats incredibly unfair and an abuse on the classifieds section.

The person buying would not know any background on the snake.. which it is only fair to be mentioned at point of sale...

selling rescues is up to him... and up to the person buying... alls fair in love and snakes...

BUT being underhanded about it and covering up and lying to members on rfuk is NOT ok


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## sami

I have an inkling of who you might mean, someone who always seems to have random animals for sale that they have never mentioned before and of species very commonly ending up rescued.

I will PM you as if my suspicions are correct I simply wish to know so I can ensure we avoid them.

Mason


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## Scoffa

*Reptile Rescue's.*

I'm not sure who your talking about but it is fairly standard practice for a 'Rescue' to sell reptiles for a 'Rehoming Fee'. I suppose it's a good way to recoup some of the money spent on food, heating, etc. The only thing that I totally disagree with is a 'Rescue' breeding reptiles. Surely the 2 are opposites? If there are lots of unwanted reptiles why create potentially more by breeding them? There was a resue on here last year that had been given some of the expensive boa morphs and they were not to be rehomed but bred with the young sold for the going rate. That is not what I call a 'Rescue' more like a business.


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## Chris Newman

Thank you for posting this information, while I am totally oblivious to whom you are referring this bring an issue to the fore which is very close to my hart – and contrary to popular belief I do in fact posses a hart!

The issue is that effectively ‘ rescues centres/organisations’ are unregulated, after being involved with the reptilian (and amphibian) world for many, many years, I am inherently cynical about ‘rescue organisations’ as I have seen so many that are simply out to feather there own nests so to speak, this includes reptile rescue centres that have achieved charitable status.

Under the new Animal welfare Act there is recognition of the issues concerning rescue organisations and it is still undecided how they should be regulated, but they will in some form be regulated. I have put my cards on the table and stated my cynicism over such organisations, however, it is very clear such organisations are needed and therefore, as always, I am a great believer in ‘putting ones own house in order’ rather than letting some dim-witted pen pusher do it for us.

Therefore is this not an opportunity for those of you interested in this issue to start to draft your own codes of practice for rescue centres! The FBH would be very interested to hear your views with the intent to draft such a code that could be proposed to government.

Any comments on such a proposal?


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## sparkle

Scoffa said:


> I'm not sure who your talking about but it is fairly standard practice for a 'Rescue' to sell reptiles for a 'Rehoming Fee'. I suppose it's a good way to recoup some of the money spent on food, heating, etc. The only thing that I totally disagree with is a 'Rescue' breeding reptiles. Surely the 2 are opposites? If there are lots of unwanted reptiles why create potentially more by breeding them? There was a resue on here last year that had been given some of the expensive boa morphs and they were not to be rehomed but bred with the young sold for the going rate. That is not what I call a 'Rescue' more like a business.


A rehome fee is more than acceptable... in fact it is fine 100% and this si not what worried me at all


but selling on classifieds and NOT stating it is a rescue and selling as if it your OWN animal is surely not... there are then issues of quarentine and honesty...


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## jo

a while ago i bought a gecko from him... he didnt mentiont to me he ran a rescue and i noeticed a lot of snakes of various breeds in classifieds popping up from him.. i then messaged him to ask where they were from and never got a reply??


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## sami

Scoffa said:


> I'm not sure who your talking about but it is fairly standard practice for a 'Rescue' to sell reptiles for a 'Rehoming Fee'. I suppose it's a good way to recoup some of the money spent on food, heating, etc. The only thing that I totally disagree with is a 'Rescue' breeding reptiles. Surely the 2 are opposites? If there are lots of unwanted reptiles why create potentially more by breeding them? There was a resue on here last year that had been given some of the expensive boa morphs and they were not to be rehomed but bred with the young sold for the going rate. That is not what I call a 'Rescue' more like a business.


it's not standard for a 'rescue' to take things on with no intention of actually doing anyhting other than selling, neither is it 'standard' for a rescue to scoop up everything and anything and then eithe rbreed it or sell it. Neither is it standard for people to buy rescue animals without being told. (etc etc etc)


Mason


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## Kellybee

I see what you mean re each to their own selling on rescues, but if these animals are not quarantined, are used for breeding purposes prior to rehoming and are not closely monitored during a quarantine period to ensure they are fit for rehoming, then I dont think thats fair to either the animal or the buyer. Especially if the buyer is completely unaware of these factors.

Dishonesty is never a good thing where animals are concerned, particularly if you are asking other people to be dishonest for your own gain. Thats not fair, and even if these people are considered as friends, then is still a selfish, unreasonable request. IF you have nothing to hide then there is no point in being dishonest, or asking other people to be dishonest and when people find out like this then there seems always to be a compromise in reputation. Thankfully I have never bought livestock on the RFUK classifieds, and would generally only buy from folk that I know. Seems tho that even the ones you know arent always as trustworthy on the surface, its a shame, a bit of honesty really goes a long way.


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## sparkle

quixotic_axolotl said:


> it's not standard for a 'rescue' to take things on with no intention of actually doing anyhting other than selling, neither is it 'standard' for a rescue to scoop up everything and anything and then eithe rbreed it or sell it. Neither is it standard for people to buy rescue animals without being told. (etc etc etc)
> 
> 
> Mason


nor is it standard for a rescue to lie simultaneously on MSN to various forumites changing their story as they go to protect their misgivings...

I considered this person a decent msn mate til last night and had ZERO against them...

I am truly saddned and very annoyed about it... I have received so many messages and a few PMs naming this person... without me even saying who it is.. so obviously others KNOW.... dreadful practice really!!!!


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## Scoffa

Chris Newman said:


> 'feather there own nests'


 Should that be 'Scale there own hides'?


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## wohic

Chris Newman said:


> Any comments on such a proposal?


The idea of a code of practise is a good one, I think it would take many people many hours to work out what would be right and what would be wrong......... but if a 'comittee' (for want of a better word) could discuss the wheres and whyfors of such a sugestion and then put forward their suggestions to other members of the reptile community for approval I could see it being very much welcomed.


I find there is a very nieve approach to rescuing fom some people though..those that have the opinion that if you are a rescue you should NEVER rehome (you would run out of space very quickly) and those that think that rescues should be given away....again totally impractical, costs do have to be covered or people simply would not be able to continue doing what they do best.


thanks for the input Chris


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## captaincaveman

It depends on the type of rescue centre, if its a charity, then yeah that deception on many levels including potential fraud, but if someone chooses to take un-wanted animals and sell them on and the person with the unwanted is happy its gone and the buyer, with the price who cares about the profit? I see it as just moving unwanted animals for a fee, i personally couldn't do it cause i always get attached to sick animals but beyond that who cares

as for quarantine, people who buy privately, should do this themselves anyway, and buying a rescue shouldn't need anymore or less quarantine that buying a hatchling from a non rehome, all your talking about is a 3rd party inbetween an unwanted with the initial keeper and wanted animal from the buyer

As long as its not a charity or duping people into helping out, who cares:no1:


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## sparkle

captaincaveman said:


> It depends on the type of rescue centre, if its a charity, then yeah that deception on many levels including potential fraud, but if someone chooses to take un-wanted animals and sell them on and the person with the unwanted is happy its gone and the buyer, with the price who cares about the profit? I see it as just moving unwanted animals for a fee, i personally couldn't do it cause i always get attached to sick animals but beyond that who cares
> 
> as for quarantine, people who buy privately, should do this themselves anyway, and buying a rescue shouldn't need anymore or less quarantine that buying a hatchling from a non rehome, all your talking about is a 3rd party inbetween an unwanted with the initial keeper and wanted animal from the buyer
> 
> As long as its not a charity or duping people into helping out, who cares:no1:


 
I care when he is telling lies to people on RFUK cavey... he quite clearly states he is a rescue on his website and he should at least have some scruples surely... i bet the people who give him the snakes have no idea they are sold for a good price NOT a re-home fee within days...

That is NOT a rescue.. THAT cavey is a business!!!


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## sami

it's a good idea..but it wont stop things like this happening. Who would enforce it?

At the end of the day unless the person giving away the reptile knows about it/check/cares it won't work. 

getting a free rep is normally a case of first come first served.

Mason


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## Scoffa

Personally I think the whole reptile community should be regulated. Retailers don't have a quarentine facility. Breeders should be licenced or registered. Potential owners should have attended some sort of course and prove they know how to care for the animal.


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## wohic

captaincaveman said:


> It depends on the type of rescue centre, if its a charity, then yeah that deception on many levels including potential fraud, but if someone chooses to take un-wanted animals and sell them on and the person with the unwanted is happy its gone and the buyer, with the price who cares about the profit? I see it as just moving unwanted animals for a fee, i personally couldn't do it cause i always get attached to sick animals but beyond that who cares
> 
> as for quarantine, people who buy privately, should do this themselves anyway, and buying a rescue shouldn't need anymore or less quarantine that buying a hatchling from a non rehome, all your talking about is a 3rd party inbetween an unwanted with the initial keeper and wanted animal from the buyer
> 
> As long as its not a charity or duping people into helping out, who cares:no1:


I actually agree Jay, but when people dupe people into being given animals by promising to give them a forever home and then have them on sale after just a couple of weeks on the same forum under that persons nose ... (when they were clearly offered as free rehomes to a 'forever' home ) then that is very wrong 

I get offered snakes all the time, I always make it clear that they will most probably be homed on when well/ feeding and i dont even claim to be a rescue.
Someone mentioned breeding from rescues ? In some respects thats no bad thing, especially if they are animals rarly offered as captive bred, then boosting the population of the captive bred animals should be encouraged.


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## sparkle

here is an interesting link to another post on RFUK about running a rescue and for anyone who cant getthe link to work.... here is the post in its full glory.... r



http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/19486-what-reptile-rescue-needs-one.html

Originally posted by Reptile rescue hull



ok i deal with many phone calls now about ppl starting or already running a rescue wrongly so ive decided to put up a post of whats needed. 

first things first even if the money comes out of your own pocket which it will lol you need a bank account i.e reptile rescue hull is mine and reptilerescueden northwest is denises all donations etc MUST go through this account any tax taken from it will be given back at the end of the taxable year. the correct equipment no rescue should be without this before starting up as without it a decent care regime and quarentine areas cant be established. the minimium quarentine for any rescue should be 6 weeks we personally use a 3 month quarentine but smaller rescues tend to need to use the 6 week period. Now whats in a name yes i did buy the words reptile rescue and for good reason if a rescue wants to use it good but make sure this list is followed and im more then happy and no abbreviations etc dont get passed it lol its reptile rescue in any sequence just like you cant call a company burger king uk sell burgers and get away with it. sspca or rspca yes we all have our issues with them but having them looking over the shoulder of newer rescues is always a good thing keeps ppl on there toes and hygiene levels high. you need to contact your local council and request licencing pay you a visit this will clear the fact at some points youll have 50 reps+ in and if the council are happy so will any neighbours be also it will make any future dwa's a lot easier to obtain the rspca will add you to a central database that can be accessed by anyone ringing there central number same goes for the sspca. reptile rescues never meet in carparks a reptile rescue should always let the public view there tanks conditions on any day. we have 7 day a week visiting and life will be very busy for you in new rescues a 2-3 day viewing would be fine as you expand volunteers will help you get up to a full 7 days viewing. TAX yes the dreaded word all rescues must still pay it though but youll get most of it back after the first tax year. a reptile database within the rescue i.e when it came plus pick of condition ,when it left again pick of condition its habits etc where its going to who with and there knowlegde we call ours the big green book lol.
have a specific set of rules in place a rehoming check and id check we do a rehoming check then a week after the first check we do another to make sure that the reptiles new tank is set up and running before the reptile goes into it. BREEDERS now not being funny to breeders here but as a morale thing we dont rehome to them some of these reptiles have had a rough time already in varrying degrees we wouldnt want to put them through any more so we tend to pick the keepers that dont breed also breeding contributes to the fact where all here. finally make sure you have a small rehome fee in place this will not only fund the rescue but also deter undisirables if someone cant afford 40 pounds as a rehome for a burmese then they cant afford to keep a burm in the first place let alone viv it properly. 

anything ive forgotten can always be asked of me by phone and im sure i will have missed something lol 

final note
THINK BEFORE COMMITTING TO THIS COURSE IS NOT CHEAP TRUST ME LOL IT WILL DRAIN YOU AND IS NOT A WAY TO FREE REPTILES 

Also keep in contact with the other rescues if you run properly we will be more then glad to help you out with tanks equip etc.


Yours
Anthony 
Reptile Rescue Hull
Reptile Rescue Hull

24-7 phone number on the site 
must update the site it this week too lol
_Last edited by ReptileRescueHull : 01-02-2007 at 01:51 PM. _


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## wohic

Scoffa said:


> Personally I think the whole reptile community should be regulated. Retailers don't have a quarentine facility. Breeders should be licenced or registered. Potential owners should have attended some sort of course and prove they know how to care for the animal.


 
That could be said of any animal breeder, and for that matter some people who decide they want to have children :lol2:


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## sparkle

wohic said:


> I actually agree Jay, but when people dupe people into being given animals by promising to give them a forever home and then have them on sale after just a couple of weeks on the same forum under that persons nose ... (when they were clearly offered as free rehomes to a 'forever' home ) then that is very wrong
> 
> I get offered snakes all the time, I always make it clear that they will most probably be homed on when well/ feeding and i dont even claim to be a rescue.
> Someone mentioned breeding from rescues ? In some respects thats no bad thing, especially if they are animals rarly offered as captive bred, then boosting the population of the captive bred animals should be encouraged.


I appreciate that breeding from rescues is ok... but when the rescue intentionally keeps only the high end morphs etc then it al seems a tad money making...

what upset me is the fact there surely should be some kind of discrepancy that selling recues with NO mention they ARE recues is wrong.. not legally... i appreciate that .. but within the environment of the reptile community when so muchis taken on trust,,,, its just plain underhanded.


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## captaincaveman

sparkle said:


> I care when he is telling lies to people on RFUK cavey... he quite clearly states he is a rescue on his website and he should at least have some scruples surely... i bet the people who give him the snakes have no idea they are sold for a good price NOT a re-home fee within days...
> 
> That is NOT a rescue.. THAT cavey is a business!!!


 
true, but all im concerned with is that unwanted animals got to wanted homes beyond that, as long as the animals are cared for in the process, and the buyer and giver away is happy, i personally dont care about the money side

The only thing that would bother me is the care of the animal and it goes to the right home in the right way, why would the unwanted pet keeper care if a profit was made if they didn't want the animal anymore? are they bothered cause someone made a profit and it wasn't them? or am i missing something?

Like i was saying, its not something i would personally do, but i think if it means people go out of their way to move unwanted animals to wanted homes its doing the hobby a favour. What percentage of classifieds anywhere(reptile and non reptile) does this happen on a daily basis? i bet its more often than not


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## sparkle

captaincaveman said:


> true, but all im concerned with is that unwanted animals got to wanted homes beyond that, as long as the animals are cared for in the process, and the buyer and giver away is happy, i personally dont care about the money side
> 
> The only thing that would bother me is the care of the animal and it goes to the right home in the right way, why would the unwanted pet keeper care if a profit was made if they didn't want the animal anymore? are they bothered cause someone made a profit and it wasn't them? or am i missing something?
> 
> Like i was saying, its not something i would personally do, but i think if it means people go out of their way to move unwanted animals to wanted homes its doing the hobby a favour. What percentage of classifieds anywhere(reptile and non reptile) does this happen on a daily basis? i bet its more often than not


what u are missing is that on HIS rescue page he outlines his practice,, none of which mentions..

if you happily rehome your snake with us.. we may sell within hours... we may not charge a re-home fee but we may instead sell at the going rate... 

if it said that i bet your bottom dollar a lot of people would NOT hand over their reps...

anyway im off out for the day.... my heads bursting withthe amount of emails im getting with stories about this rescue from other forumites..

it just makes me feel saddened... i appreciate we wil all have our own views here.. black/ white and grey..

but the bottom line is....

he soent a while last nigth on msn telling several different stories about the SAME snakes.. to cover his tracks.. when these convos were comppared it was obvious there were lies .. this is not the actions of a KOSHA rescue really.. if HE himself had nothign to hide why be underhand and tell varying stories and conflicting facts...


off to tesco i go xxxxxx


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## lampropeltis

its anoyed me
as you all know i got accused of this the other day
it was a huge missunderstanding
but the people that realy do do it (if u know what i mean)
are the ones that cause all the accusations
i personaly think if it can be proved
they should be banned
as we dont want that sort of person on here (at least i dont)


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## sea_beaver

i cant say that i have any idea of whom this person is, but to deny the respect of people who are buying these snakes from him is shamefull and unfair.
its unfair to be making a full profit at the sake of a rescue snake within hours, i agree that a rehoming fee is standard, but to be proffiting for "bad goods" isnt the way.


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## sparkle

I have just been messaged to say he is currently online bumping all the snakes he has for sale in the RFUK classifieds section... OH the irony..

right as i said off to tesco i go...


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## Kellybee

I think the main point thats been overlooked really is the one about the dishonesty. Why would anyone want to keep it a secret that they rescue and resell? And why would they go out of their way to ask those who know this to also be dishonest?

If I were to buy an animal and was unaware that it was a rescue, I'd be annoyed. Maybe not so annoyed that I wasnt told the true history of the animal, but by the fact that the person I bought it from couldnt tell it to me straight. If he cant be honest with me about that, then what else has he got to hide?


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## sami

sparkle said:


> I have just been messaged to say he is currently online bumping all the snakes he has for sale in the RFUK classifieds section... OH the irony..
> 
> right as i said off to tesco i go...


 
Indeed, it'll be a Devil of a day for them when this thread gets spotted.

Mason


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## LeeH

about the supposed courses to keep it..some won't spend 3.50 on a book nevermind paying out a fee for a course on how to care for it 
if the animal is healthy and both parties are happy then i see no problem...circuimstances/intrests change but hey thats life..still costs to feed and house the animal at the end of the day..why should rescue centres give animals away for nothing for that person to breed it and make profit...which is worse?
the only animal i rescued from a rescue organisation i was really impressed with the condition of the animal i recieved(ratsnake from LRR)..a lot nicer than some ive bought from petshops really.


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## lampropeltis

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Indeed, it'll be a Devil of a day for them when this thread gets spotted.
> 
> Mason


noticed you covert questioning mason very FBI lol


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## Andy

If the person has nothing to hide then i am sure they will be able to come on the thread and explain everything calmly and rationally.:grin1:


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## captaincaveman

im struggling to spot em:lol2:


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## lampropeltis

rankindude2 said:


> about the supposed courses to keep it..some won't spend 3.50 on a book nevermind paying out a fee for a course on how to care for it


 
one thing i do is buy a book on every animal i own
drives the mrs mad
gna start a library


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## Guest

Hi all.

Firstly let me just say i havnt been here much lately but i have been keeping and eye on things and i felt that i had to post on this as i also feel very strongly about this situation.


My personal views on reptile rescues are that in the main they do a very good job.The problem that i have with them is as stated there is no control over what they do or charge.

I feel that all rescue centers should be registered and also have regular checks.As much as we hate to say it the RSPCA has been doing a lot of good in rehoming animals for years.We may not agree with there policies but they are regulated.Any rehoming fee is a set fee and that is for every animal.Whether that animal has recieved a lot of vets treatments and behaviour training or not.

To me a reptile rescue should be the same way.If there was a set fee for every reptile lets say for arguement sake £40 on every animal then i would ee this as acceptable.There are a fair few animals that go into recue centers that do need vet treatment but as a regisrered charity most cases would be done under charity rules.In other words charged only for drugs etc and minimal consultation fees.On the other hand there are a lot of reptiles that are handed over that are in good health and after a period of a few weeks are able to be rehomed with minimal cost to the rescue center.The way i see this is that for every animal that needs treatmen there are 4 or 5 animals that would cover the cost of the one needing treatment.

I think if the reptile rescue centers were to be regulated then it would serve to stop people claiming to be a reptile rescue where they are just taking in unwanted pets for profit by selling them on as an expet.

I hope this makes sense to others as im not really with it today but after seeing the thread i needed to say something


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## Athravan

I don't run a rescue center in any way shape or form, but I do offer to take any animal in no matter what it's health, what it's size.. and try to find it a good home.

I usually take details over the phone, and then phone or email one of my local contacts in the rescue business... but sometimes people just bring things in and I'm stuck with them.

What do I get stuck with? This year... several green iguanas, large nile monitor... lots of extra large terrapins/turtles, and a few aggressive king snakes... some large snakes the owners couldn't cope with anymore, one illegal tortoise, and one sick tortoise that died even after £300 of medical treatment. A few other bits and bobs but you see what I mean!

Those are the kind of animals that a true rescue will find themselves getting. I am not a registered rescue, I don't advertise anywhere, except in the shop, I say I can help with animals if you can't cope with them - and just from the local area and my personal customers, those are what I've been stuck with. My overheads for vet treatment have been high. My rehoming fees have been low or non existant depending on the animal and I've always explained the background first.

All I can say is, running a rescue is not profitable. It shouldn't be profitable. If someone is managing to aqcuire animals that are profitable, then they are not sitting at home waiting for animals who "need" them.. they are going out and scouring the ads and taking things from people, who could have found homes elsewhere.

To me a rescue will take in the animals that no one else will, the ones that are hard to rehome, the ones that need the medical treatment. Anyone who is managing to get hold of "popular" and "valuable" animals as "rescues" has got to be dodgy somewhere along the line?


----------



## feorag

I've just come in on this thread and read through all that's been said.

Having read it all I agree with Sparkle that it has all been done underhanded and I'm definitely against that!



captaincaveman said:


> true, but all im concerned with is that unwanted animals got to wanted homes beyond that, as long as the animals are cared for in the process, and the buyer and giver away is happy, i personally dont care about the money side
> 
> The only thing that would bother me is the care of the animal and it goes to the right home in the right way, why would the unwanted pet keeper care if a profit was made if they didn't want the animal anymore? are they bothered cause someone made a profit and it wasn't them? or am i missing something?
> 
> Like i was saying, its not something i would personally do, but i think if it means people go out of their way to move unwanted animals to wanted homes its doing the hobby a favour. What percentage of classifieds anywhere(reptile and non reptile) does this happen on a daily basis? i bet its more often than not


I agree totally with what you are saying - at the end of the day what matters is that an unwanted pet ends up in a wanted home. I do think though that _*anyone*_ buying an animal has a right to know its history and if they are paying full price for a rescue, they should be told that the animal/reptile has been rescued from a home. 

However, at the end of the day I still think it is wrong to sell rescued animals of any kind or species for the full going rate rather than a 'donation' towards its care in the rescue.

Finally:


Athravan said:


> All I can say is, running a rescue is not profitable. It shouldn't be profitable. If someone is managing to aqcuire animals that are profitable, then they are not sitting at home waiting for animals who "need" them.. they are going out and scouring the ads and taking things from people, who could have found homes elsewhere.
> quote]
> 
> This is so true. I work for a wildlife rescue centre, which 4 years ago reached full capacity. They were then faced with either close their doors to injured and orphaned wildlife and keep the ones they had and carry on, or get grants and open to the public. They chose the 'open to the public' route got finance, extended and opened to the public in Spring of 2005 and they are still running at a loss.


----------



## punky_jen

can someone pm me who it is, so i can avoid them?


----------



## Nerys

have to say i agree with christy... you occasionally get a "nice" animal in as a rescue/rehome.. i've got an albino burm i was given (major deformity) a transpecos ratsnake (found in a garden) a panther chameleon (given over to a shop as they could not cope) JungleCorn (victim of threatend eviction).. ones like, i'll be honest, i add to my collection and enjoy, and some i will breed from. the TP will be breed, there are hardly any being breed in the uk at the moment. the jungle will be bred (they are both males btw) the burm i doubt would be able to breed!

i also get my fair share of bog standards.. corns, kings and the like.. and those i tend to home onwards.. this year, most corn rehomes i have had, have been given to london zoo, for their educational work.. i don't charge for them, i don't charge to take them to the collection points.. i just make sure they go to a good home.

i rehomed two boas this week, without even being there... i was told they needed help, i called the guy, found out about them, and then called a contact locally to them. she called my "boa rescuer" (i have a guy in surrey who gets a lot of the boas i get given) and as far as i know the snakes were collected last night and taken to him. thats the ideal rescue as far as i am concerned.. rehomed from my desk in dorset.. i don't need to have the snakes here and sell them back on, if i can organise a home from the comfort of a swivel chair!!

i don't advertise as a rescue, and i don't even have a "will take free snakes" thing in my sig, or online as an ad.. the majority of the "work" i do, is word of mouth.. i'm lucky in that i have a large contact base, all over the UK, so i can almost always turn my hand to whats needed from scotland to cornwall 
rescuing is not about ego and making a profit, its about quietly assesing an animals needs and organising a home for it with as little fuss for the animal as you can manage. 

it does seem to be silly season on boas at the moment however, i have another male being given to me this weekend i think.. from surrey to skegness, the boas just keep a coming !

this one will be assesed, and thought about. i have a placement home in an animal educaters waiting a nice handleable big snake, so if he is suitable, he will spend the rest of his days teaching children to enjoy snakes

i'm sorry these people had to burst the bubble sparkle.. its not good when things like this go on..

N


----------



## Testudo Man

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Indeed, it'll be a Devil of a day for them when this thread gets spotted.
> 
> Mason


I can recommend a rather boring "*drinking hole*" in the off topic 18+...But its a *devil* of a job to get a good drink there :lol2:...See you guys in there tonight then!!! : victory:...T.T.8)


----------



## sami

Terrific tortoise said:


> I can recommend a rather boring "*drinking hole*" in the off topic 18+...But its a *devil* of a job to get a good drink there :lol2:...See you guys in there tonight then!!! : victory:...T.T.8)


 
I honestly cannot beleive only one person noticed


----------



## Andy

Hey its a good idea though. Scan all the classifieds on the net for cheap or free snakes available to rehome then get them delivered for next to nowt by reptiletaxi because you are a "rescue" then whack them on the classifieds the next day at the normal going rate! Sounds like a good money spinner it doesn't matter that people think they are getting rehomed to a good home as long as your making money out of it! I think more people should do it because then all the animals will eventually find homes and we will all make more money out of them! Bonus! :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


----------



## easty

Terrific tortoise said:


> I can recommend a rather boring "*drinking hole*" in the off topic 18+...But its a *devil* of a job to get a good drink there :lol2:...See you guys in there tonight then!!! : victory:...T.T.8)


whats one of those things called? you know the bit of string tied to two sticks n u throw a ball type thing up in the air?? im sure theres a lamborghini with the same name!!! anyone??


----------



## sami

easty said:


> whats one of those things called? you know the bit of string tied to two sticks n u throw a ball type thing up in the air?? im sure theres a lamborghini with the same name!!! anyone??


 
Uggh...

Lambo's are Hellishly expensive

Mason


----------



## sparkle

... ok so now i try to go onto his rescue webnsite which was up and running LAST night perfectly fine.. and guess what.. it no longer exists...

it was called 2ndchancereptiles

the site was working 100% fine last night.. yet its completely gone this morning...


ive had another 5 messages about this person ...

so thats about 15 people in total now saying they KNOW he does this...

Im thinking though people like this only move forum or change website... they dont actually stop 

oops LOL just been told freewebs are ALL down.... sorry folks my mistake

anyway ive named the rescue now.... so i wil hang as they dry me....


----------



## weeminx

easty said:


> whats one of those things called? you know the bit of string tied to two sticks n u throw a ball type thing up in the air?? im sure theres a lamborghini with the same name!!! anyone??


:lol2: oooh ooh is it not the lamborghini diablo?:lol2:


----------



## sparkle

Terrific tortoise said:


> I can recommend a rather boring "*drinking hole*" in the off topic 18+...But its a *devil* of a job to get a good drink there :lol2:...See you guys in there tonight then!!! : victory:...T.T.8)


and yes he does have a BAR on the over 18s too.... it amazes me that everyone knows who this idiot is without me having mentioned a name..


grrrrr


louder
GRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## Nerys

freewebs is having a "planned outage" at the moment.. so all their sites are down... its a good job rory is not about yet, or he would be going mad right now, as we use them also 

so, it may be back on later, the website that is

N


----------



## sparkle

weeminx said:


> :lol2: oooh ooh is it not the lamborghini diablo?:lol2:


How the hell did everyone else know but me then... im such a sap....

I honestly am far too trusting.. hes been on my msn for months and not mentioned once hes a rescue ... NOW i see why...


it makes me mad that people like this give the hobby and other great rescues a bad name..

nerys made excellent points too... 

anyway i am feeling very unsparkly now...


----------



## sparkle

Nerys said:


> freewebs is having a "planned outage" at the moment.. so all their sites are down... its a good job rory is not about yet, or he would be going mad right now, as we use them also
> 
> so, it may be back on later, the website that is
> 
> N


 
oops sorry bout that...


----------



## easty

Sparkle you should be feeling very sparkly for bringing this demons hellish behaviour to everyones attention :lol2: dont think there is a clapping smilie otherwise you would get a round of aplause from me.


----------



## Nerys

lol, np sparkle.. gives us all a chance to save it for later use 

will let you know what freewebs have said to rory about when they are back up.. or at least i will once he gets his butt back online!

N


----------



## sparkle

easty said:


> Sparkle you should be feeling very sparkly for bringing this demons hellish behaviour to everyones attention :lol2: dont think there is a clapping smilie otherwise you would get a round of aplause from me.


the very fact over 15 people on rfuk KNEW who it was before i mentioned a website says it al really...

im guessing he wil move on and do it elsewhere now..

and the fact rep taxi also was diddled by him is sickening.. those girls help deliver rescues on their own time and money or at very reduced rates... and for them to be abused is one big pile of POO POO!!!


----------



## sparkle

Nerys said:


> lol, np sparkle.. gives us all a chance to save it for later use
> 
> will let you know what freewebs have said to rory about when they are back up.. or at least i will once he gets his butt back online!
> 
> N


and now i wil breathe.. LOL

going to get the new royal all ready for my wee ones birthday shes 10 saturday and her surprise is a royal python.. her all time fave snake 


thanks nerys xxxx


----------



## weeminx

sparkle said:


> How the hell did everyone else know but me then... im such a sap....
> 
> I honestly am far too trusting.. hes been on my msn for months and not mentioned once hes a rescue ... NOW i see why...
> 
> 
> it makes me mad that people like this give the hobby and other great rescues a bad name..
> 
> nerys made excellent points too...
> 
> anyway i am feeling very unsparkly now...


aww doll.....*runs over and sprinkles sparkly stuff on sparkles head*

you are far too trusting,not everybody is nice in this world,its a shame we have to share the same air with some folk but hey ho the joys of life.
as for knowing who it was it was pretty simple really when we looked at the snakes classys.we could all be detectives and have wee badges made up.:lol2:

cheer up honi....youve made us all aware of whats going on and im sure things will turn out ok.as it always does on here.: victory:


----------



## sami

website is still there I think..

The front page:


"*Hello all reptile lovers and Keepers,*
*Just a bit of information regarding what we do and why we do it.*

*Ok well I'll introduce myself first, my name is ***** and some people also know me as Chance due to what we do. I travel around the UK picking up reptiles whenever I can because there are so many reptiles out there which aren’t looked after correctly, or their owners cannot take care of them any longer due to a change in their circumstances etc. I used to rescue reptiles in Birmingham but have now moved down to London and want to start the same process down here. *
*No matter what happens, your name will not be passed onto anyone if you have a reptile which is in poor condition or if you don't know how to care for it correctly. I'd rather take the reptiles in myself and re-home them at a later date once they’re all healthy, rather than someone being worried about handing them in to me and then ending up just dumping them in the streets or where ever else ( This Does Happen ) Which is a great shame. So I've decided, once convincing my partner, to start up this rescue site but due to different laws etc.. we cannot classify ourselves as a Reptile Rescue because we aren't a registered charity yet. But the quicker we have that all sorted out the better. We also work along side an Animal Warden where we live, who had a case a few months ago of an 11ft retic which unfortunately died before the reptile handler got there so now I'm on standby for similar future situations.. *

*Re-homing will soon be available once we have no room left. If you are after a certain reptile or can re-house a certain reptile, then please contact us we always need people on standby. It could take anything from 6 days to 6 months for us to call you depending on how it takes off down here. So fingers crossed and hoping that people actually give us a call instead of letting the animal suffer. So if in doubt, give me a call or drop me an e-mail. I'm free 24/7, but please no HOAX calls."*


----------



## captaincaveman

Terrific tortoise said:


> I can recommend a rather boring "*drinking hole*" in the off topic 18+...But its a *devil* of a job to get a good drink there :lol2:...See you guys in there tonight then!!! : victory:...T.T.8)


 
I cant believe how slow ive been this morning:lol2: i dont spend that much time in clasifieds so totally missed the name, the name change didn't help:lol2:


----------



## Nerys

is this them on gumtree too? or someone else?

Adopt an Iggy (free to great home only London (Croydon Pets London adopt

N


----------



## sparkle

thanks minxy shelley..

I am beginning to realise my sparkley trusting nature is not perhaps always a bonus..

perhaps i should change my name to CLUSO... lol


----------



## sparkle

Nerys said:


> is this them on gumtree too? or someone else?
> 
> Adopt an Iggy (free to great home only London (Croydon Pets London adopt
> 
> N


no idea nerys...

i dont think so as im not sure this is where the guy lives although rep taxi would tel me as they have dropped " rescues" that were sold days later on RFUK at his home...


----------



## captaincaveman

Apart from this issue there is a certain member who personally tells people the market value of animals(that he/she has plucked from the ether) just to get them cheaper to sell on straight away, and not only that is so aggressive that certain long term members have had to block them cause of the continuous bombardment tactics they use


----------



## sparkle

captaincaveman said:


> Apart from this issue there is a certain member who personally tells people the market value of animals(that he/she has plucked from the ether) just to get them cheaper to sell on straight away, and not only that is so aggressive that certain long term members have had to block them cause of the continuous bombardment tactics they use


 
hmm cant we have a


this persons AT IT thread....



and keep it as a sticky..


----------



## DeanThorpe

captaincaveman said:


> true, but all im concerned with is that unwanted animals got to wanted homes beyond that, as long as the animals are cared for in the process, and the buyer and giver away is happy, i personally dont care about the money side
> 
> The only thing that would bother me is the care of the animal and it goes to the right home in the right way, why would the unwanted pet keeper care if a profit was made if they didn't want the animal anymore? are they bothered cause someone made a profit and it wasn't them? or am i missing something?
> 
> Like i was saying, its not something i would personally do, but i think if it means people go out of their way to move unwanted animals to wanted homes its doing the hobby a favour. What percentage of classifieds anywhere(reptile and non reptile) does this happen on a daily basis? i bet its more often than not


 
only read up to this post so far and have to comment.
it is disshonest, full stop.
the ppl giving the snakes away ro whatever prolly want it to go to a good home, assuming nobody will profit from it [meaning motives usually remain true and good]
selling quick after rescuing shows this is not the case.
its also disshonest.
also, if the snakes are healthy, the fair thing to do would be to buy it from the previous keeper if the intent was to re-sell.

its out right disshoneast and wrong.


----------



## hermanlover

thanks to sparkle and other people. 

you have saved me a lot of trouble as i nearly fell into the trap

thanks a lot
really am greatful.
lee 

:no1::no1::no1::no1:


----------



## the-tick

I'll be really fecked of if it is as I bought my hatchling dave from them and they seemed nice enough answered all my questions and never mentioned anything about a rescue.

The reason I will be fecked off is that I bought fluffy from what I was told was a brilliant centre (crystal palace reptiles) and he/she died really quickly, and now if IF dave's been bred from *potentially* un-quarantined (sp) snakes what maybe round the corner for dave !!!!!!

now I don't know if I should outright ask if dave parents were rescue and why they were rescues etc









I don't mind if they were but the information should be there as point of sale if not before, there should be total transparancey in these situations then none of this would even have to be posted, I do hope the people involved to post their point of view though.

Now I'm worried that I now have a snake that could develop complications in the future.


----------



## captaincaveman

DeanThorpe said:


> only read up to this post so far and have to comment.
> it is disshonest, full stop.
> the ppl giving the snakes away ro whatever prolly want it to go to a good home, assuming nobody will profit from it [meaning motives usually remain true and good]
> selling quick after rescuing shows this is not the case.
> its also disshonest.
> also, if the snakes are healthy, the fair thing to do would be to buy it from the previous keeper if the intent was to re-sell.
> 
> its out right disshoneast and wrong.


 
I cant speak on this specific case(as i dont know whats involved), but im not saying that these animals shouldn't go to a good home, but a middle man doesn't mean that it wont, The rehomer could be just(or more) of a poor home if he kept it than the person they move it on to, the only thing we are actually talking about here is the profit side of things, the good/bad homes could happen irrespectively of this 

why does profits always equal bad intentions? thats tarring everyone with the same brush, i know of a few rehomers that are the hoarding type, and yes they dont resell and the money comes out of their own pocket, but just because their intentions are good, doesn't mean their care and husbandry follows suit

The only dishonest part i see is the intentionally with-holding the animals background(health wise), but again this is irrispective of whether the animal is a rehome or not, or for profit or not, this could happen with rehomes or private sales, and a rehomer for profit doesn't necesseraly need to hold back this information any more or less than a private seller and any rehomer whether for profit or not for his own interests is best to find that out anyway


----------



## DeanThorpe

hi, the person who this is about by the way... i didnt realise as he used to be called soemthing else...again which confused me cos a few ppl had a similar name..but anyway.. that person iffered me soem water dragons that he was selling due to space...that same day he was buying..asking ppl for prices on bulk [say, all 10 water dragons, hole batch of beardies]
and one of his email responses came from another adres, which was [email protected] or soemthing...i got confused...then i got suspicious...then i decided to never talk to the guy again.
today i see this thread and get told that person is the same guy.

so yeh, a jerk.

captaincaveman, 
I prolly wasnt clear, 
If you give soemone a snake to look after, you dont expect it to be sent off to soemone else at a profit within a couple days.. infact...i feel that unless going to a vet... reps shouldnt even be moved that often.

This case is so dodgy that we really have to talk about the specifics of this one, which is obviously where my posts here are coming from.
all things being eqaul, then i stand by my comments in the other thread [what do u think of this] where i agreed with you in as much as "in principle" there is nothing wrong with selling a rehome.... that in my opinion is sooooo different from running a rescue centre and actively seeking rescues and flogging them behind everyones backs.


----------



## sparkle

DeanThorpe said:


> hi, the person who this is about by the way... i didnt realise as he used to be called soemthing else...again which confused me cos a few ppl had a similar name..but anyway.. that person iffered me soem water dragons that he was selling due to space...that same day he was buying..asking ppl for prices on bulk [say, all 10 water dragons, hole batch of beardies]
> and one of his email responses came from another adres, which was [email protected] or soemthing...i got confused...then i got suspicious...then i decided to never talk to the guy again.
> today i see this thread and get told that person is the same guy.
> 
> so yeh, a jerk.


the thing is dean...

when people lie they have to make sure they are 100% sure the cover their tracks EVERY TIME... when people are honest they only have to catch the liar out ONCE...

the odds were against him from the start...


----------



## captaincaveman

DeanThorpe said:


> hi, the person who this is about by the way... i didnt realise as he used to be called soemthing else...again which confused me cos a few ppl had a similar name..but anyway.. that person iffered me soem water dragons that he was selling due to space...that same day he was buying..asking ppl for prices on bulk [say, all 10 water dragons, hole batch of beardies]
> and one of his email responses came from another adres, which was [email protected] or soemthing...i got confused...then i got suspicious...then i decided to never talk to the guy again.
> today i see this thread and get told that person is the same guy.
> 
> so yeh, a jerk.


yeah, thats the one, i didn't like some of the things this guy said under his other name, i never realised it was the same person for a while and i'll personally avoid him, not matter where the animals come from, even if they were bred by himself, it all seems too shifty for my liking


----------



## sparkle

captaincaveman said:


> I cant speak on this specific case(as i dont know whats involved), but im not saying that these animals shouldn't go to a good home, but a middle man doesn't mean that it wont, The rehomer could be just(or more) of a poor home if he kept it than the person they move it on to, the only thing we are actually talking about here is the profit side of things, the good/bad homes could happen irrespectively of this
> 
> why does profits always equal bad intentions? thats tarring everyone with the same brush, i know of a few rehomers that are the hoarding type, and yes they dont resell and the money comes out of their own pocket, but just because their intentions are good, doesn't mean their care and husbandry follows suit
> 
> The only dishonest part i see is the intentionally with-holding the animals background(health wise), but again this is irrispective of whether the animal is a rehome or not, or for profit or not, this could happen with rehomes or private sales, and a rehomer for profit doesn't necesseraly need to hold back this information any more or less than a private seller and any rehomer whether for profit or not for his own interests is best to find that out anyway


the dishonesty part is that he isnt TELLING people they are rescues... hes selling them like they are his collection...

if you were buying then you should know its a rescue...

rescues happen for various reasons some are beause the person cant pay vet bills for sick animals... or they are non feeders or they are aggressive...


shouldnt the person buying the animal KNOW... surely???????


anyway if he was above board why would he have messaged other RFUKers last nigth and specifically asked them to say on the thread that was removed...

JUST MAKE SOMETHING UP ABOUT THE CORNS>>>>>


thats bloomin suss...

making money is fine 100%////// lying is NOT


----------



## hermanlover

does anybody know if anything is going to be doneto stop him operating on this forum?

lee


----------



## sami

californiankinglover said:


> does anybody know if anything is going to be doneto stop him operating on this forum?
> 
> lee


I'm not sure that any forum rules have been broken. 

I'm sure regardless of what happens now people will be a bit more wary about buying things..

Mason


----------



## hermanlover

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I'm not sure that any forum rules have been broken.
> 
> I'm sure regardless of what happens now people will be a bit more wary about buying things..
> 
> Mason


true. i doubt he would come back on the forum once he see's this thread. once the word gets out im sure he will loose all business from this forum.

lee


----------



## punky_jen

only if people pm to ask if they see the thread though, i dont think its allowed to be a public naming is it?


----------



## DeanThorpe

can we get a little 
"prick"
tag under his name to replace the forum citizen or whatever maybe?


----------



## sparkle

felt this link might be worthwhile posting.... notice the name of the forumite that posted the thread 2ndchancereptiles


Reptile Rehoming.com - Get in touch! Reptile Forum UK England Boa Constrictor Forum Royal Python Forum America Australia London World Wide! - Advice on starting a rescue *Stickied

just incase the link doesnt work here is what he himself says...


*Advice on starting a rescue *Stickied 2ndchancereptiles*
« Thread Started on Jul 18, 2007, 7:24pm »[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]Starting a Rescue

Before you think about starting a rescue there are a few things you have to take in to account.
Do you have the time?
Can you support your rescue with the money it needs?
Can you pay for emergency vet care?
Do you have the space for the animals?
Do you have a vast amount of knowledge of the animals you wish to take on? 
Can you take on all sizes and species of your chosen rescue?
Do you have the correct environment for a rescue ?
Do you know the aspects of the Law that will effect you?

If you can answer yes to all of those questions then your half way there.

Being a rescue takes over your life if you have to work 7 days a week look after 2 kids as well as all the other general stuff then how much time will you have to take animals to vet, clean them all out, Handel them regularly, as well as check for illnesses and diseases, not to mention feeding them. 

What if a sick animal gets handed in and you need to make space for it right away, not forgetting that any animal that comes in to your care should be quarantined for at least six weeks.

What happens if you are given the care of an aggressive animal do you have enough experience to handel any situation it throws at you?

What happens when the new RSPCA regulations come in will you be able to meet them ? 
This will be a huge one if the RSPCA get their way they will be policing them self they will then have the rights with a warrant and a police officer present to be able to seize all animals on the premises

Can you hold your tongue? If someone brings you a mistreated animal are you going to be able to keep your thoughts to yourself?

Are you able to create moral guidelines for you rescue to follow concerning adoption and home checking?

Do you own your own home? If not then you must get permission from your local council to be able to house the animals before they come in which is not ideal as you never know what you may get or when you may get it 

Are you able to deal with people over the phone after they have woken you up at 5 am saying their pet is ill?

To run a rescue you must be able to think on your feet love being woken up at all times of the night as well as be able to support your cause with a lot of money and a lot of love, always set a guideline as to how many animals you can house, don't over crowd your rescue and always follow strict hygiene where animals are concerned 

Now for the legal stuff
The things you don't need

You do not at this moment in time need to have a license to run a rescue.
You do not have to be a business
You do not have to be VAT registered 
You do not have to be home checked by the RSPCA or any other animal organisation

The things you do need

You must KNOW the animal law
You must be prepared to take a lot of back lash if you are unprofessional 
You MUST set an example to other animal keepers in keeping your rescues in tip top condition
Always support your local animal keepers 
Always support other rescues

The things you should never do!

Never sell on a rescue its WRONG 
Never pressure people in to giving up their animals to you instead try and help them as much as possible
Never try and intimidate a person in to doing it your way by saying "if you don't do this ill do ........"
Never try and run another rescue out of business remember we are all here for the same reason


IF and only IF you can do all of that then you are ready to begin rescuing 
If for any reason you can not do the above then think about offering to volunteer at a local rescue or offer to foster one of the rescues until it finds its forever home 

You are not expected to know everything but you are expected to ask questions if there is ever anything your not sure on


----------



## sparkle

punky_jen said:


> only if people pm to ask if they see the thread though, i dont think its allowed to be a public naming is it?


but he is publically abusing the forum...

so why cant he be named... thats us allowing intimidation surely 

and thats how these people win


----------



## HABU

how can you tell the difference between a rescued animal and any other? do they have a scarlet letter? if someone releases an animal to someone else to find it a good home, then they have released it. selling an animal is a way of finding a home. money exchanged is no ones business except that between the buyer and seller. we have to face the fact that reptiles are a commodity. snatching up unwanted reptiles for pure profit is a little slimy. but not evil. if people have unwanted herps, THEY should find them a home or sell them. i don't agree with anyone who practices dishonesty and misrepresents themselves. but the have every right to buy unwanted animals and sell them. i wouldn't do it as a habit. if someone didn't want something and gave it to me, i may sell it so long as it is healthy to a good home. all that really matters is that the animals final destination is a good home. the snake could care less if someone makes a buck. he just wants his mouse now and then and a decent cage to live in. people shouldn't represnt themselves falsely, i agree but this rescue thing i don't quite understand. rescue to me, is when the animals are seized and living in unacceptable conditions. not an animal that Bubba bought and now doesn't want anymore. many times rescued animals have issues from their maltreatment. it would be hard to conceal this in many cases. i guess things are a bit different here. i may be off the mark. rescue congers up a certain image in my mind. ...just my 2 cents. ....oh and by the way if anyone has any diamond rings they would like for me to rehome, let me know. i'll find a good place for them....


----------



## the-tick

also this is on the same thread









*Re: Advice on starting a rescue *STICKY*« Reply #4 on Jul 19, 2007, 8:19pm »  Thanks Guys no worrys about it being made a sticky at least its correct unlike what they say on RFUK about being VAT registered lol.


----------



## t-bo

punky_jen said:


> only if people pm to ask if they see the thread though, i dont think its allowed to be a public naming is it?


Umm lol, but his username has been said at least twice in this thread? 



the-tick said:


> also this is on the same thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Re: Advice on starting a rescue *STICKY*« Reply #4 on Jul 19, 2007, 8:19pm »  Thanks Guys no worrys about it being made a sticky at least its correct unlike what they say on RFUK about being VAT registered lol.


Whats all this "like they say on RFUK" business... I didnt know we had an opinion on this. :grin1:


----------



## sparkle

t-bo said:


> Umm lol, but his username has been said at least twice in this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> Whats all this "like they say on RFUK" business... I didnt know we had an opinion on this. :grin1:


 

oh what a wicked web we weave when first we practice to deceive...









Oh u know fine well T-bo your such an opinionated guy LOL

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## DeanThorpe

haha.. if it wasnt such an inferior forum id post this link on there.. but im not registering on it for the sake of it.

Habu, its all about honesty and good intentions.
this guy lacks both.


----------



## sparkle

HABU said:


> how can you tell the difference between a rescued animal and any other? do they have a scarlet letter? if someone releases an animal to someone else to find it a good home, then they have released it. selling an animal is a way of finding a home. money exchanged is no ones business except that between the buyer and seller. we have to face the fact that reptiles are a commodity. snatching up unwanted reptiles for pure profit is a little slimy. but not evil. if people have unwanted herps, THEY should find them a home or sell them. i don't agree with anyone who practices dishonesty and misrepresents themselves. but the have every right to buy unwanted animals and sell them. i wouldn't do it as a habit. if someone didn't want something and gave it to me, i may sell it so long as it is healthy to a good home. all that really matters is that the animals final destination is a good home. the snake could care less if someone makes a buck. he just wants his mouse now and then and a decent cage to live in. people shouldn't represnt themselves falsely, i agree but this rescue thing i don't quite understand. rescue to me, is when the animals are seized and living in unacceptable conditions. not an animal that Bubba bought and now doesn't want anymore. many times rescued animals have issues from their maltreatment. it would be hard to conceal this in many cases. i guess things are a bit different here. i may be off the mark. rescue congers up a certain image in my mind. ...just my 2 cents. ....oh and by the way if anyone has any diamond rings they would like for me to rehome, let me know. i'll find a good place for them....


 
youre missing the point habu...

He is abusing not only RFUK but bad mouthing the forum too...as u can see from the posts he made on that other forum ... he abused reptile taxi also...


IF an animal is given to you there could be numerous reasons... .. at that stage you have no idea if its a feeder or non feeder.... aggressive or calm..... ill or healthy... the rescue should at least keep the animals and quarentine them and check for feeding and bahaviour before advertising them for either sale or rehome surely????


selling this animal within 2 days and not OUTLINING these facts as far as i can see is unfair and dishounarable... pretending they are part of your collection is also wrong 

asking people on msn last night to LIE for him is also dishounarable... up until last night i had the guy on my msn as a mate i cahtted to... id no idea i was being duped..... so i feel a total idiot that i was also taken in...

selling snakes is fine... lying as i said is NOT...


----------



## Fixx

I think it's diabolical

















have I spelt that right? :lol2:


----------



## punky_jen

lmao.........

I agree sparkle, i think people like that should be named, but i dont make the rules, wish i did lol.


----------



## sparkle

Fixx said:


> I think it's diabolical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have I spelt that right? :lol2:


wel if you havent im the wrong person to ask.... i cant spell for toffee


----------



## sparkle

punky_jen said:


> lmao.........
> 
> I agree sparkle, i think people like that should be named, but i dont make the rules, wish i did lol.


 
i think its pretty obvious who it is by now...

well hopefully


----------



## sami

Naming and shaming is only watched because of possible legal implications for the forum owners.

However saying something like (for example  )

"Diablo/Snake_Charmer/2ndchancereptiles has allegedly been selling rescues without informing people they are rescues" 

can have no posible legal comeback for the forums, simply because it is not a definitive statement.It is a FACT that people have made this allegation however nowhere does that statement say anything definitive. 

It also helps if in the same post you state something along the lines of:

"this is my opinion and not those of RFUK or the registered owner(s) of RFUK"



Mason


----------



## sparkle

OK so..

The words i have typed are allegedly true...

they have been supported within Pms and emails i have recived from other RFUK members and corrobarated by people seperate from myself...

they do not in anyway represent the beliefs of the forum owners or RFUK.. however if they wish to agree thats fine by me...


----------



## HABU

sparkle! you're going to mess up his game!!:lol2::lol2:


----------



## easty

sparkle said:


> they do not in anyway represent the beliefs of the forum owners or RFUK.. however if they wish to agree thats fine by me...


:rotfl::rotfl:


----------



## captaincaveman

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Naming and shaming is only watched because of possible legal implications for the forum owners.
> 
> However saying something like (for example  )
> 
> "Diablo/Snake_Charmer/2ndchancereptiles has allegedly been selling rescues without informing people they are rescues"
> 
> can have no posible legal comeback for the forums, simply because it is not a definitive statement.It is a FACT that people have made this allegation however nowhere does that statement say anything definitive.
> 
> It also helps if in the same post you state something along the lines of:
> 
> "this is my opinion and not those of RFUK or the registered owner(s) of RFUK"
> 
> 
> 
> Mason


very good:no1: that ticks all the boxes legally:no1:


----------



## tombraider

So are all those geckos hes been selling recently all rescues too? I think its a disgrace to abuse peoples trust and friendship even if its just people you have come to know online.


----------



## sami

captaincaveman said:


> very good:no1: that ticks all the boxes legally:no1:


It certainly does. Now i'm not legally qualified AT ALL but what I am is an IT professional, one who happened to work at an internet service provider. an internet service provider *constantly* bombarded with emails/letters/nutters on the doorstep saying something along the lines of:

"xxx has posted xxx about me on a (newsgroup/forum/website) and I will (sure/take you to court/write to my MP/tell the queen) unless is is removed.

funilly enough that kind of thing ensure you get the relevant training fairly quickly.


Mason


----------



## sami

tombraider said:


> So are all those geckos hes been selling recently all rescues too? I think its a disgrace to abuse peoples trust and friendship even if its just people you have come to know online.


 
No, he purchased a large breeding group of leos, surely you remember the 4billion posts on the subject? :lol:


Mason


----------



## sparkle

tombraider said:


> So are all those geckos hes been selling recently all rescues too? I think its a disgrace to abuse peoples trust and friendship even if its just people you have come to know online.


no the geckos he breeds seemingly... wel as far as i know anyway


----------



## HABU

tell the queen....:lol2:


----------



## sparkle

quixotic_axolotl said:


> It certainly does. Now i'm not legally qualified AT ALL but what I am is an IT professional, one who happened to work at an internet service provider. an internet service provider *constantly* bombarded with emails/letters/nutters on the doorstep saying something along the lines of:
> 
> "xxx has posted xxx about me on a (newsgroup/forum/website) and I will (sure/take you to court/write to my MP/tell the queen) unless is is removed.
> 
> funilly enough that kind of thing ensure you get the relevant training fairly quickly.
> 
> 
> Mason


 
i remember him coming online saying he was being threatened to have his house fire bombed and legs broken by everyone... 

:bash:


----------



## sparkle

HABU said:


> tell the queen....:lol2:


im on my way now....

WHEEEEEEEEEE


----------



## punky_jen

lmao mason makes me laugh hee hee .........tell the queen..........im gona pee lmao


----------



## tombraider

sparkle said:


> i remember him coming online saying he was being threatened to have his house fire bombed and legs broken by everyone...
> 
> :bash:


Thats quite a joke seeing as he was going round threatening a few forum members a couple of months back saying he was going to pay them a visit, including my house :grin1:


----------



## sparkle

tombraider said:


> Thats quite a joke seeing as he was going round threatening a few forum members a couple of months back saying he was going to pay them a visit, including my house :grin1:


 
well hes well and truly shown for who he really is now... about time actually!!!


----------



## t-bo

quixotic_axolotl said:


> It certainly does. Now i'm not legally qualified AT ALL but what I am is an IT professional, one who happened to work at an internet service provider. an internet service provider *constantly* bombarded with emails/letters/nutters on the doorstep saying something along the lines of:
> 
> "xxx has posted xxx about me on a (newsgroup/forum/website) and I will (sure/take you to court/write to my MP/tell the queen) unless is is removed.
> 
> funilly enough that kind of thing ensure you get the relevant training fairly quickly.
> 
> 
> Mason


It actualy doesnt tick any boxes, ive posted on this many times and even replied directly to a similar thing you posted once before about naming shops (but you might not have seen it). This situation is actualy different, and I wont sway this thread off topic, but it is not as simple as you make it sound Mason.


----------



## weeminx




----------



## sami

Guys it would be funny if it wasn't true.

I could go on for hours.

One more funny one for you all though:

I once got a PERSONAL court summons while working at the ISP...

Someone ordered a single port ADSL router, we didn't have any so we sent out a four port (for those of you who need to ask we sent out a superior product FOC because we did not have any stock of the inferior one). this got sent back along with a letter of complaint which is where I stepped in...


Now this person is/was physically disabled. I have no idea in what way..

I explained to them that we could not supply them a single port router, so offered either a refund OR a free upgrade to a wireless router. this was not satisfactory.

a few days later we get a summons to small claims court. they were taking us/me to court for breaking the disabilty discrimination act (or somesuch) because we were discriminating against him because we would not sell him the equipment he needed in order to use his connection.

the highlight for me was one of the offenses I was accused of (they list them) was....


"I am disabled, I only have one good eye. Mr Mason made my one good eye bleed."


Yes I really am that damn good. I can make people bleed over the telephone.


Needless to say it never did end up in court.

and yes, I really honestly have had someone threaten to write to the queen if their complaint was not resolved to their satisfaction. We had weekd and weeks worth of office humour out of that one "fetch me a drink or I shall tell the queeen!"

Mason

Mason


----------



## weeminx

:lol2: here u must be good if you can get his good eye to bleed :lol2:
brillaint!!! :lol2:


----------



## poizon

i think all this is horrible. i have no problems with rescue charging a rehome fee, in fact i would expect it as they run on donations, and without them, would have to close. but to not state that they are a resuce is not on, what if you need to keep an eye out for an reoccuring problem? if you didnt know about it, you may miss it til its to late. 

i dont understand why he's gone so underhanded by it? it makes him look so dogy, i think that if he was selling animals and stated they were rescues, that no-one would really have a prob, as long as he was upfront about it. 

it is so worrying, knowing who to trust nowadays. 

Thing that peep should remember is that these things always come out eventually, no matter how well you think you have covered your tracks and you just make yourself look bad and lose everyones trust so best to be open and honest from the start me thinks.


----------



## Diablo

Very long read sparkle and yes for your information I do run a rescue for reptiles, Reasons behind keeping it seperate from the forums is simple due to the fact of threatening behavour when a couple of people found out and phone calls at stupid hours in the morning. Also some of your statements you have said are not true we keep rescue cases seperate from my own personal collection. Also you assumed that my new snakes were rescues when they where not. If you relate to one of my posts where a rehoming fee applys for the King snake because that one is a rescue I.E. REHOMING FEE is stated. Also you say within 48 hours something which was so called rescued was up on RFUK please enlighten me on this. Due to the fact we DO NOT sell any rescue reptiles WE REHOME THEM. In fact a rehoming fee is considered as a donation which isn't applicable if the Rehomer doesnt want to leave the donation it isn't required. Scales and Fangs rehomed a beautiful Iggy from us because he asked us if we got a young one that came in could i give them a shout so i did. Feel free to carry on which all your comments but as i said to sparkle last night I KEEP IT ALL SEPERATE FROM MY OWN REPTILES. And then you say I bred rescue corns no I didn't. 

ALSO name these so called high morphs which I have rescued your saying all these things without getting the facts. Carry on your more than welcome to try and slate my name but you are really senseless and don't actually know anything what goes on. I've spent an awful lot of money on reptiles and doing swaps and exchanges from my own personal stock is why I get alot of different snakes and lizards coming through my hands. For a Prime example I bought 3 mangrove snakes from a very very good friend of mine i did some part exchanging and some cash handling the reptiles that came with the part exchange were a Crested Gecko a borneo Blood Python a bibrons gecko and 3 adult female leopard geckos. But no yet again most people on here never look between the lines you just look at the surface. I got the link of my site removed from your post because i didnt want it there. Also if i remember correctly you was asked to leave it and your post would be left in the pictures section regarding the rescue. But the worst thing is I actually thought you was a decent person Sparkle but obviously not.



sparkle said:


> This thread is basically about a rfuk member running their rescue underhandadly... and abusing the trusting nature of RFUK members...
> 
> 
> 
> May i first state that the majority of rescues I know are amazing they do great work and really are a credit to our hobby.... however last night I was very saddened and hurt by a person on MSN i thought was a decent bloke lying not only to me but noticeably and with proof other RFUkers,.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately last night a thread was removed ( not started by me) where i stated several points that had come to my attention about a particular RFUK member and the way he operates on this forum. it only came to light when he tried to bully me into removing a perfectly nice post about his rescue... I had no idea he did not want his rescue on RFUK... so i asked him why and I asked other RFUK members why his paranoia about RFUK knowing he ran a rescue was soo high...
> 
> I have kept all the convos people sent me and the convos I had with him as proof.
> 
> 
> he told me under no circumstances did he want RFUK members knowing he ran a rescue as he bred geckos and i received msn messages where he said to other members he also bred from the corns he rescued and then sold a lot of snakes on classifieds without mentioning they were indeed rescues.... this was also proved to be true when other RFUK forumites sent me convos from msn he had with them.
> 
> 
> I was then alerted something was very wrong and received msn convos he has had with other members and messages from other rfukers showing his underhandedness within RFUK and the classifieds section. On many occasions snakes were for SALE not rehome in classifieds... I only checked and noticed this after receving info that he was asking other forumites to post I was an idiot and that I had got it al wrong and the snakes were NOT rescues etc.... he was trying topressure other members into posting negatively...
> 
> A moderator removed the thread on request of the person who runs the rescue as he stated he wished to keep his rescue completely seperate from RFUK, very soon after however i received messages from both t-bo and a moderator appologising.
> 
> During this situation I was shown MSN convos with several other RFUK members where he clearly stated that snakes he professed to be bought were indeed rescues and they were being either sold on or kept by him for breeding.
> 
> None of this particlarly bothered me and i had NOT stated any of this on the thread at that point. I was keeping schtum to gather more info from his other msn contacts.
> 
> My personal MSN convos with him showed him trying to persuade me to remove the link to his rescue site saying if i did not his house would be threatened by various well known and well respected members of the reptile community and he actually named them to me at this point. I explained I would not remove it ... and that if it was al above board he should have no reason to be paranoid.. at this point he became difficult .
> 
> During this convo he was also at the exact same time talking to other RFUK members begging them to say I had got it al wrong and I quote from saved MSN instant messages..
> 
> 
> " just make something up about the corns..." this comment was in relation to conrs he had told other members had been rescues but had said to me intially WERE rescues then changed his mind 5 minutes later./.. his partner also posted they were bought snakes... yet he had told me and other RFUK members they were NOT bought... at that point i started to ask around regarding his actions with members of the forum i trust
> 
> He had repeatedly told different stories to members about the snakes... and I felt it was very undehand of him...
> 
> I was then told the reason he wishes to keep the rescue he runs seperate from RFUK is to enable him to sell the snakes on classifieds... ( and i was shown various proof from his msn convos with other forum members to clarify this)
> 
> reptile Taxi ( whom i trust implicitly and are completely unbiased) then informed me ( last night) that they at one point delivered to him virtually free ( rescued snakes) as he was a rescue then noticed him selling the snakes less than 48 hours later on RFUK classifieds... no mention these snakes were rescues at all.. therefore NO quarentine happening and NO fairness.
> 
> I have now had several emails form various people pointing out the way this rescue is run... it seems very underhanded and very strange that at least 6 people last night messaged me to say they knew of occasions where rescues had been sold within DAYS... I am sure we cant ALL be wrong...
> 
> 
> I was messaged last night with an appology that my points had been removed and he explained he felt a wrong decision had occured on behalf of the moderator that removed the thread... it was also stated in this message the thread and my points should have been left for all to see and the post had been removed in haste
> 
> the reason I am starting this thread is to show how careful people need to be when buying on classifieds.. not everyhting is as it seems.. and to warn RFUK members that the forum is being USED wrongly by this person...
> 
> the person in question will know who they are when they read this... abd they should realise that they are now being closely watched... so they can either be honest and start using the forum correctly or suffer the consequences of continued lies and abuse of RFUK.
> 
> 
> 
> I have nothing personal against him and no reason to wish to upset him as they have been on my msn for months and I considred them decent people BUT had no idea either they ran a rescue... his words to me when i found out last night were.,. HOW THE HECK DID U FIND OUT WE RUN A RESCUE WE NEVER TELL ANYONE ON RFUK...
> 
> I have now removed them and do not wish to be any part of the underhandedness and unfairness he is displaying.
> 
> Sorry for the essay guys,, I had considered posting nothing but I am furious at this person trying to maniplate not only me but other RFUK forumites and the good nature of rep taxi girls.


----------



## Diablo

Also I have noticed a few people have mentioned I have bought bulk reptiles from dealers because guess what i'm doing something which alot of you really couldnt care less about. The funny thing is more money comes out of my own pocket to pay for VET bills when rescues come in. But Assumtions made by alot of you and guess what I couldnt give to fly ****s about it I do what I do for the sake of the reptiles I have NEVER SOLD a rescue nor have I not told anyone about the background of the snake. I actually have a blind Royal python which I rescued but never rehomed her because of the state she was in and the state she could fall back into if in the wrong hands. But you don't care about that part and the part where I spend so much money for the reptiles themselves and its no where near a so called PROFITABLE venture as most may think. Fair enough im a breeder of geckos and corn snakes which i must add THEY HAVE ALL BEEN PAID FOR IN CASH. If I had something to hide i would hide and wouldn't reply to this topic would i. Deanthorpe your one to talk as well yet again thought you were a pretty all right guy. But because I help others out alot seem to bitch about it. Also when we have reptiles going out for rehoming we get them to sign an adoption form to state the reptile mustn't be sold on.


----------



## sparkle

then WHY


did u ask other forumites last night to say i was lying and make something up about the corns...

I have it on MSN convos dated and timed... and i am a decent person... what you have to wonder is why so many people are pm'ing me saying that youve lied to them or changed stories etc etc... WHY... is everyone out to get you.. is that what u think??? or are u just being uncovered for who u really are....

bear in mind theres proof in MSN convos... do not forget that 

I have no issue with re-homing fees but it was pointed out to me last night by other forumites ( 2 to begin with) they KNEW u were selling snakes you had AQUIRED free and not saying they were re-homes.. they asked me did i know you ran a rescue.. i said no.....

why are u worried about RFUK knowing.. are we a terrible forum... are we going to jump on u cos ure a rescue... answer WHY u need to keep RFUK seperate from your RESCUE.... WHY???

I had never any single reason til last night to discredit you.. but you begegd other forum members on msn to say things that were blatanly untrue... so please if you had nothing to hide why did u beg me not to post a nice comment about you with your rescue in it... as that point i was saying congrats on the good work..

i have msn convos stating those reps were from a guy in london... you told other forum members they were RESCUES... then your GF told people they wee bought.... make your mind up... and slagging off RFUK on other forums has totally discredited you... abusing rep taxi is another issue...

again til last night i thought u were a completely nice decent guy.... i had no reason to doubt u slightly...

NONE...

until u said..

DO NOT post my rescue links on rfuk i NEEd to keep them seperate...

i asked you why this was...

ive been emailed by over 20 forumites with negative info about you.. what about the non-feeders youre trying to pass off to peopel cos you dont knwo what to do with them.. what about the msn convos youve had saying.. a royal died and i dont know why... U know what youre out of order plain and simple... if tyou had nothing to hide why choose RFUK to be the forum YOU begged nme not to post your rescue links on..

you havent addressed all the other people speaking out against you... and what about al the info being sent to me thats about you lying and changing stories... ive no reason to do this... none.. except its the truth


abusing rfuk members and rep taxi and generally telling different stories to different peopleand hoping we wouldnt talk to one another... you based a lot of what you do on luck and intimidation

ARE WE ALL WRONG ??????????????

and dnt try to pull the fact/////


IF I HAD SOMETHING to hide iwouldnt reply in this topic...

CRAP


if you had nothing to hide why did u ask em to remove the link to your rescue last nigth and ask other RFUK members to LIE on ure behalf... the mistake you made was asking members whom know me and talk to me on msn...

THAT WAS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED and as stated i have al the MSN convos from you to me and others... so do not try and pretend otherwise...


RFUK admin appologised for the thread last night being pulled.... they said it should have been left...


----------



## Diablo

Also if you want any contact details of the snakes we have rehomed your more than welcome to ask us and we will provide all the information that is needed. Get your facts right before you start shouting your mouths off you wonder why reptile keeping as a bad name. Also forgot to add please feel free to phone the RSPCA and qoute the rescue and you will be very very shocked. Also ask bluepeter who we gave an awful lot of advice to because they wanted a reptile for the pet corner. Also Mayhew centre just seems you dont know anything at all sparkle if we was hiding something why would we be along side certain people ( Expect the RSPCA saying someone had a corn snake and would like it rehomed and its a king snake. But notice on the advert REHOME FEE )


----------



## slither

I can't personally see the problem. 
Whoever the person is, I haven't read all the thread and tried to work it out, is given animals for nothing. If that person decides to sell those animals and make a profit then whose business is it other than theirs?
If the original owner decides to give away an animal, then it falls unto whoever was given it to do as they see fit. If they make some money so what. 
If selling at a suitable price for that particular animal then what is the problem?


----------



## sami

if it is all above board then why on earth were you bothered about your rescue coming out on here??

Mason


----------



## Diablo

Have negative information oon me because to be quite brutally honest there are a few muppets on the forums which are just shit stiriers not to mention up there own arse. Oh well the secrets out Yes i do rescue yes i do rehome and yes i do breed my own reptiles. What a crime anyone want to call crimewatchers UK. Seriously its stupid because Sparkle All i asked was for you to remove the link and you said i cant sorry so i said ok.


----------



## punky_jen

And why are people threatening to burn his hosue down? Thats madness!


----------



## Diablo

quixotic_axolotl said:


> if it is all above board then why on earth were you bothered about your rescue coming out on here??
> 
> Mason


Why was i bother you say well Ive seen several people get ripped apart on here because they said they were a rescue. Ask Sy and Trice ive even said to them if they are looking for anything let me know and if it comes in they will be first on the list.


----------



## Diablo

punky_jen said:


> And why are people threatening to burn his hosue down? Thats madness!


You say why Punky_Jen it came from Baby05x and her little cronies which found it funny to do threatening phone calls etc.


----------



## Diablo

Anymore questions that need answering?


----------



## rachy

did you sell all your mangroves to people without dwa in the end lol


----------



## Faith

sparkle i would like those forwarded to me considering that there have only ever been 3 people come to the house from this forum how on earth they can say they have brought geckos from us is unbelivable considering the only geckos we have ever sold was a crestie and a superhypo the super being yeaterday and the crestie to freekygeeky ask her go on and some afts 
as for reptile taxi droping snakes to us then us selling them it cost us £170 in get the commons from south wales (christy) to us and that was including the £50 christy was asking for for them 
Why would we try and make a profit from them when we spoke to christy before they ever went back up for rehoming and a great guy came and picked them up and didnt even give us that ammount of money for them he has 6 others those are the only snakes we have ever had reptile taxi deliver (and as always they did a great job)

Ill tell you all what ill can provide proof of every single rescue we have had come through us i can provide proof of convos that we have had on msn and i can also provide proof or a home check 
As for the post "what a reptile rescue needs to be one" that post is not correct it has not come from us and we have spoken to Ant about that one.


----------



## poizon

well i think threating phone calls are not on one bit, i dont care who you are, thats down right criminal, you should have called the police ect


----------



## Diablo

rachy said:


> did you sell all your mangroves to people without dwa in the end lol


lol the mangroves wasnt in my care until they were off the licence but I sold them before hand through my friend who is a DWA licence holder to another DWA licence holder.


----------



## Diablo

poizon said:


> well i think threating phone calls are not on one bit, i dont care who you are, thats down right criminal, you should have called the police ect


we actually seeked legal advise regarding that and informed the persons involved that legal action will be enforced if anything continues.


----------



## rachy

but you were quite happily going to sell one to someone you knew didnt hold a dwa. before the 1st october when it was legal to own one without dwa.


----------



## punky_jen

No matter if someone is a rescue or not, no one should have to put up with threats like that! 

I know she is a nutta hun!!!


----------



## Faith

As we have already told countless people if they are that bothered then get off their A** and come down and have a look at the way we keep our reptiles but do any of you think that they did ohhh no they dont want to they want to sit behind their pc chatting crap


----------



## poizon

Diablo said:


> we actually seeked legal advise regarding that and informed the persons involved that legal action will be enforced if anything continues.


 
good on you! things like that have to be delt with otherwise it could get outta control and they would think they can get away with it with others


----------



## the-tick

I have 1 question then...

Can you plesae confirm that Dave comes form parents that have had no health, feeding problems as I went through SO much heart ache with losing fluffy I'd hate to think that Dave has a higher than normal chance of any health complications.

And a side note to this if I had known you ran a rescue I would probably have gotten Dave and rehomed another rep.


----------



## poizon

Faith said:


> As we have already told countless people if they are that bothered then get off their A** and come down and have a look at the way we keep our reptiles but do any of you think that they did ohhh no they dont want to they want to sit behind their pc chatting crap


well if you lived closer to me i would love to vcome round and see all those lush leos you brought a while back (lol and have a very large bag with me too pmsl)


----------



## Faith

well jen this is the whole reason why we dont shout about anything we do because when people find out we rescue but that we also breed our own stock they all have to have an opinion well thats fine but NONE of you can shout about something you dont know 
i really strongly surggest that people get their facts right before shouting their mouths off on hear say


----------



## Diablo

rachy said:


> but you were quite happily going to sell one to someone you knew didnt hold a dwa. before the 1st october when it was legal to own one without dwa.


Maybe so Rachy because by the first of October they were being legalised also not to mention the New changes to the DWA had already been passed. But if im in the wrong for doing that then the person who also inquired for the mangroves is also in the wrong for trying to obtain a DWA reptile.


----------



## Diablo

the-tick said:


> I have 1 question then...
> 
> Can you plesae confirm that Dave comes form parents that have had no health, feeding problems as I went through SO much heart ache with losing fluffy I'd hate to think that Dave has a higher than normal chance of any health complications.
> 
> And a side note to this if I had known you ran a rescue I would probably have gotten Dave and rehomed another rep.


Hi The-Tick Daves parents where not rescues they came from someone I know in Heathrow. They are in perfect health they actually when to someone from the forums PM me if you would like to know the name of the person. I got the snakes in a swap which i did with my friend with one of my other snakes ( Which i must add was out of my own personal collection )

***EDIT***

I forgot to add lol when you came round to pick Dave up what was the condition of my reptiles in even tho we were due to move. Also you have said yourself that dave is bigger and in much better condition than where you purchased your last corn from.


----------



## Faith

just to add its not illigal to offer to sell a rep on the DWA unless cash actually changes hands which it never did we only would have been breaking the law if they were kept by us at the point of the sale when in fact they wernt


----------



## rachy

well.....
Sent 18/08/07 21:34
You havent told me how much they are!
Also if you hold til october how much will they go up to?
If i collect now i will be liable to prosecution due to not having DWA

Recieved 18/08/07 22:13

If you were to collect before the 1st October then you would be liable if you were found out by DEFRA. I have sold one already to a person in Newcastle who doesn't have a DWA. I won't say anything if you don't 

very responsible for a rescue centre me thinks lol


----------



## easty

Diablo said:


> Maybe so Rachy because by the first of October they were being legalised also not to mention the New changes to the DWA had already been passed. But if im in the wrong for doing that then the person who also inquired for the mangroves is also in the wrong for trying to obtain a DWA reptile.


Thats bull, if you sell a packt of cigarettes to a 15 YO and get caught, YOU get prosecuted not the 15yo.


----------



## Art_Gecko101

rachy said:


> well.....
> Sent 18/08/07 21:34
> You havent told me how much they are!
> Also if you hold til october how much will they go up to?
> If i collect now i will be liable to prosecution due to not having DWA
> 
> Recieved 18/08/07 22:13
> 
> If you were to collect before the 1st October then you would be liable if you were found out by DEFRA. I have sold one already to a person in Newcastle who doesn't have a DWA. I won't say anything if you don't
> 
> very responsible for a rescue centre me thinks lol


Busted!


----------



## Diablo

rachy said:


> well.....
> Sent 18/08/07 21:34
> You havent told me how much they are!
> Also if you hold til october how much will they go up to?
> If i collect now i will be liable to prosecution due to not having DWA
> 
> Recieved 18/08/07 22:13
> 
> If you were to collect before the 1st October then you would be liable if you were found out by DEFRA. I have sold one already to a person in Newcastle who doesn't have a DWA. I won't say anything if you don't
> 
> very responsible for a rescue centre me thinks lol


Like i said before the rescue is different from my own personal collection, you was very prepared to obtain a manny before hand so your making yourself look stupid as well as trying to do the same to me.


----------



## sparkle

there we go DIABLO.... rachy thanks for that....


stop trying to make out your such a wonderful rescue!!!!!

AND have u ever stopped to think I have NEVER had ANY personal dealings with yourself regarding reps... so i ONLY got my info from OTHER RFUK members who were concerned about the way you were operating...

over 20 forumites mate... THINK ABOUT IT!!


----------



## DeanThorpe

Diablo said:


> . Deanthorpe your one to talk as well yet again thought you were a pretty all right guy. But because I help others out alot seem to bitch about it. Also when we have reptiles going out for rehoming we get them to sign an adoption form to state the reptile mustn't be sold on.


sorry why am i one to talk dude?
what i said was true, i always ask reason for sale, you said you had various water dragons, all sexes and sizes etc, and reason for sale was space as you have to get rid of loads and i think u said cos your wife not sure.
then you were trying to buy a load, so i think i kinda sked you.."hey..this i swierd..umn" nicely and you didnt answer so i decided to keep away from you, atleast if that is you, liek i say i didnt know you changed your name.

I felt you were not telling a full story and if im buying animlas i feel i have to trust the person and i instantly changed to diss trust you...and then forgot all about you until today.

why am i one to talk? i dont do anything atall underhanded or dodgy.


----------



## Andy

Faith said:


> just to add its not illigal to offer to sell a rep on the DWA unless cash actually changes hands which it never did we only would have been breaking the law if they were kept by us at the point of the sale when in fact they wernt


 
In my area anyone buying and selling reptiles for profit full stop, DWA or otherwise, without a pet shop licence is breaking the law. Not sure how it is in your area though.:smile:


----------



## Diablo

Diablo said:


> Like i said before the rescue is different from my own personal collection, you was very prepared to obtain a manny before hand so your making yourself look stupid as well as trying to do the same to me.


Wow very mature comments. Busted lmao, easty you say if you sell a pack of **** to someone under the age they are prosicuted Yes very true but I keep my own personal affairs and helping others out when they required a mangrove before hand but oh well just shows what you get for helpin others. Anymore questions


----------



## sparkle

Diablo said:


> Like i said before the rescue is different from my own personal collection, you was very prepared to obtain a manny before hand so your making yourself look stupid as well as trying to do the same to me.


 
stop even trying to clear your mess up...

its pointless.. as i said i considered u a decent bloke on msn... you crapped it last night and begged ne to remove the link to your rescue form a nice post i posted about it...


WHY...

becasue maybe you knew you were about to be rumbled 


I have nothing personal against you even now.. i dont know you... or care really as ive never been duped by you... but a bunch of forumites telling me WHY you begged me to remove the link to your rescue made me concerned.. and by nature i dug a little deeper and then you saying your house would be under threat when you yourself were the one physically threatening people...

Please tel me why over 20 forumites would bad mouth you and show me emails and convos you have had with them that make you look wuite frankly a liar and underhanded???


please!


----------



## Faith

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snake-classifieds/45006-mangrove-snakes-cb-07-a.html
Link for the ad for the mannys note CAME FROM A FRIEND 

Dean as for the CWDs yes we had some in and yes we needed the space common sence would tell people that if we have just invested a fair bit of money on a storage to be put on the side of the house not only that they were brought down from up north from a friend who could not sell them up there


----------



## Diablo

DeanThorpe said:


> sorry why am i one to talk dude?
> what i said was true, i always ask reason for sale, you said you had various water dragons, all sexes and sizes etc, and reason for sale was space as you have to get rid of loads and i think u said cos your wife not sure.
> then you were trying to buy a load, so i think i kinda sked you.."hey..this i swierd..umn" nicely and you didnt answer so i decided to keep away from you, atleast if that is you, liek i say i didnt know you changed your name.
> 
> I felt you were not telling a full story and if im buying animlas i feel i have to trust the person and i instantly changed to diss trust you...and then forgot all about you until today.
> 
> why am i one to talk? i dont do anything atall underhanded or dodgy.


Dean would you like me to provide you with the full reciepts of the chinese water dragons because i can  Like I said think what you want. Because i will continue to rescue and I will continue to sell my own reptiles.


----------



## sami

I still don't get this at all...

you are a legit rescue yet you kept it quiet on here because you were bothered about what a few people might say? surely a legit rescue should see this place as a very good resource for rehoming animals? Lots of knowledgeable keepers etc...instead you use smaller forums to advertise rehomes...


Mason


----------



## Faith

sparkle said:


> stop even trying to clear your mess up...
> 
> its pointless.. as i said i considered u a decent bloke on msn... you crapped it last night and begged ne to remove the link to your rescue form a nice post i posted about it...
> 
> 
> WHY...
> 
> becasue maybe you knew you were about to be rumbled
> 
> 
> I have nothing personal against you even now.. i dont know you... or care really as ive never been duped by you... but a bunch of forumites telling me WHY you begged me to remove the link to your rescue made me concerned.. and by nature i dug a little deeper and then you saying your house would be under threat when you yourself were the one physically threatening people...
> 
> Please tel me why over 20 forumites would bad mouth you and show me emails and convos you have had with them that make you look wuite frankly a liar and underhanded???
> 
> 
> please!


as i said sparkle can you forward me those messages just to actually makes sure that these 20 people have even actually had dealings with us cus i can assure you they havent


----------



## the-tick

Diablo said:


> Hi The-Tick Daves parents where not rescues they came from someone I know in Heathrow. They are in perfect health they actually when to someone from the forums PM me if you would like to know the name of the person. I got the snakes in a swap which i did with my friend with one of my other snakes ( Which i must add was out of my own personal collection )
> 
> ***EDIT***
> 
> I forgot to add lol when you came round to pick Dave up what was the condition of my reptiles in even though we were due to move. Also you have said yourself that dave is bigger and in much better condition than where you purchased your last corn from.


Thank you, I don't think the level of care has been called into question (except 1 point about quarantine times) mainly the separation of breeder and rescue.

I was mainly worried about Dave's heritige for somewhat selfish reason as explained.


----------



## Diablo

sparkle said:


> stop even trying to clear your mess up...
> 
> its pointless.. as i said i considered u a decent bloke on msn... you crapped it last night and begged ne to remove the link to your rescue form a nice post i posted about it...
> 
> 
> WHY...
> 
> becasue maybe you knew you were about to be rumbled
> 
> 
> I have nothing personal against you even now.. i dont know you... or care really as ive never been duped by you... but a bunch of forumites telling me WHY you begged me to remove the link to your rescue made me concerned.. and by nature i dug a little deeper and then you saying your house would be under threat when you yourself were the one physically threatening people...
> 
> Please tel me why over 20 forumites would bad mouth you and show me emails and convos you have had with them that make you look wuite frankly a liar and underhanded???
> 
> 
> please!


LMAO sparkle seriously you dont have a clue do you. Ask the person who you have obtained the information from in the start. If i was hiding why would i be replying?


----------



## Diablo

the-tick said:


> Thank you, I don't think the level of care has been called into question (except 1 point about quarantine times) mainly the separation of breeder and rescue.
> 
> I was mainly worried about Dave's heritige for somewhat selfish reason as explained.


Yeah no worrys mate. The rescues where all kept in the spare room upstairs away from my own reptiles.


----------



## sparkle

Diablo said:


> Also if you want any contact details of the snakes we have rehomed your more than welcome to ask us and we will provide all the information that is needed. Get your facts right before you start shouting your mouths off you wonder why reptile keeping as a bad name. Also forgot to add please feel free to phone the RSPCA and qoute the rescue and you will be very very shocked. Also ask bluepeter who we gave an awful lot of advice to because they wanted a reptile for the pet corner. Also Mayhew centre just seems you dont know anything at all sparkle if we was hiding something why would we be along side certain people ( Expect the RSPCA saying someone had a corn snake and would like it rehomed and its a king snake. But notice on the advert REHOME FEE )


 
the ONLY snake that has rehome fee mate..


COME ON PAUL

are u stil trying to say the facts i was given by so many people are wrong..


i have ONLY re-iterated the facts given to me by others, NONE are anything you have ever done to me...

except begged me to remove a link to your rescue...

others SHOWED me convos u had with them last night begging them to say i was a liar and i quote again


you said this...

JUST MAKE SOMETHING UP ABOUT THE CORNS


WHY oh WHY if you were above board would u be asking people to post made up stories about the corns you said were part of your own collection... that you had in actual fact admitted to other RFUK members you didnt knoe spoke to me WERE RESCUES...

what the heck.. is everyone hallucinating and lying about you...

are we all wrong and you are right???


----------



## sparkle

Diablo said:


> LMAO sparkle seriously you dont have a clue do you. Ask the person who you have obtained the information from in the start. If i was hiding why would i be replying?


 
NOT person PERSONS....


and many of them... including reptiel taxi... now why would rep taxi lie....

STOP IT


----------



## DeanThorpe

Diablo said:


> Dean would you like me to provide you with the full reciepts of the chinese water dragons because i can  Like I said think what you want. Because i will continue to rescue and I will continue to sell my own reptiles.


no man, as i said in my post.. just what i said... i got a bit baffled by the thing and decided i didnt like the situation and left it... thats all.


----------



## Faith

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I still don't get this at all...
> 
> you are a legit rescue yet you kept it quiet on here because you were bothered about what a few people might say? surely a legit rescue should see this place as a very good resource for rehoming animals? Lots of knowledgeable keepers etc...instead you use smaller forums to advertise rehomes...
> 
> 
> Mason


no we keep pur rescues seperatly because of stuff like this if people want to come round the house and look at all our paper work they are more than welcome 
secondly we have a waiting list for all our rescues that come in every single one of them never go with out being checked out first never if people have a problem with the fact that we take in animals people cant look after then spend ££££££ on getting them better and asking for a dontation which isint a must then balls 
you lot sit here and bang on about protecting reptiles from the bills that they are trying to pass and then in the next breath rip down a successfull rescue well i know for a fact no animal has ever left us in ill health and that is all you lot should be worried about


----------



## Diablo

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I still don't get this at all...
> 
> you are a legit rescue yet you kept it quiet on here because you were bothered about what a few people might say? surely a legit rescue should see this place as a very good resource for rehoming animals? Lots of knowledgeable keepers etc...instead you use smaller forums to advertise rehomes...
> 
> 
> Mason


Yes we are legit and yes we did decide to use smaller forums but thats because of what happened before hand with certain individuals but now you all know I will use this site for rehoming and if you want to you can rehome them if not who cares. I hold a passion for reptiles and you can ask my other half if i could I would keep everything that comes in but Its pysically impossible for me to do so. Ive been keeping reptiles for 19 years got my first leopard gecko when i was two years old which my parents cared for until i was able to do so myself he died at a very very old age. But you try and do something good for reptiles and you have a passion for them and theres always some people trying to put you down.


----------



## Faith

sparkle said:


> NOT person PERSONS....
> 
> 
> and many of them... including reptiel taxi... now why would rep taxi lie....
> 
> STOP IT


Well sparkle as i keep asking message me all those statments and i can let you know if we have ever had dealings with them but your not doing it are you?


----------



## sparkle

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I still don't get this at all...
> 
> you are a legit rescue yet you kept it quiet on here because you were bothered about what a few people might say? surely a legit rescue should see this place as a very good resource for rehoming animals? Lots of knowledgeable keepers etc...instead you use smaller forums to advertise rehomes...
> 
> 
> Mason


 

thank you for posting something obvious and not emotional im getting WAY too nagry to be sensible now..

I knew hed try and wriggle out of it...


you adked rep taxi to bring snakes to you cheaply you told rep taxi they were rescues....on many occasions only for them to notice DAYS later they were for sale as part of your personal collection....


SOOO>>>>

DID U LIE to rep taxi so you could get snakes for your personal collection brought to you by them CHEAP... or did you LIE on the forum that they were YOUR personal snakes not rehomes...


BOTH CANT BE TRUE u idiot


----------



## rachy

Diablo said:


> Like i said before the rescue is different from my own personal collection, you was very prepared to obtain a manny before hand so your making yourself look stupid as well as trying to do the same to me.


 
I never really wanted 1 , i was seeing if you would sell me one , i never clled you did i!!!!!


----------



## Diablo

Diablo said:


> Yes we are legit and yes we did decide to use smaller forums but thats because of what happened before hand with certain individuals but now you all know I will use this site for rehoming and if you want to you can rehome them if not who cares. I hold a passion for reptiles and you can ask my other half if i could I would keep everything that comes in but Its pysically impossible for me to do so. Ive been keeping reptiles for 19 years got my first leopard gecko when i was two years old which my parents cared for until i was able to do so myself he died at a very very old age. But you try and do something good for reptiles and you have a passion for them and theres always some people trying to put you down.


Seriously sparkle because you kicked up a fuss and i was getting a tad pissed off with it. If you want me to ill get photos of my whole collection not just the ones who are with me now how about the other ones which i keep in Birmingham at a friends of mine but you didnt know that which is fair enough. Also name these people who we have dealt with from the forums because id love to know who they are, Like jo for instance when did we sell you a gecko and what sort.


----------



## poizon

now can i just ask, if 20 odd people who have spoken to you, why have none of them come on this thead and said this has happend to me or he told me this?

just wondering why the feel they should tell in pm's but not on the forum wheren someones rep is in question?


----------



## Faith

Ok you show me where reptile taxi has ever brought more than a PAIR OF COMMONS down to us they were rescues as we were told by Christy ask her and ask DITTA and they charged us £120 thats not cheap
ditta actually offered that if we needed her to pick up rescues then she would but we havent asked her


----------



## rachy

Faith said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snake-classifieds/45006-mangrove-snakes-cb-07-a.html
> Link for the ad for the mannys note CAME FROM A FRIEND
> 
> Dean as for the CWDs yes we had some in and yes we needed the space common sence would tell people that if we have just invested a fair bit of money on a storage to be put on the side of the house not only that they were brought down from up north from a friend who could not sell them up there


i have the emails to say could i collect before the 27th as you were moving......
Someone i know and on RFUk saw them at your house in croyden!

Ive said my bit now , wont be long before this thread is locked!


----------



## Esarosa

Ok i read twelve pages and then just realised i was reading the same thing over n over again

Diablo and Faith are fantastic people and only ever have the animals best interests at heart. People are jumping to assumptions n that's not fair.

Maybe they didn't want to advertise that they were a rescue to the mocking response alot have received on here for doing so, or maybe because then whenever a piccy of one of their own collection is shown , people expect it to be a rescue n pester them to rehome it? Or maybe as mentioned they receieved threatening calls.

It's up to them. or SHOULD have been up to them if they made this information public. N to do it without their permission is underhand in my opinion. I understand your concerns sparkle n think your a cool lass..but they are good people despite what you may think.

just my two penneth worth


----------



## Diablo

sparkle said:


> thank you for posting something obvious and not emotional im getting WAY too nagry to be sensible now..
> 
> I knew hed try and wriggle out of it...
> 
> 
> you adked rep taxi to bring snakes to you cheaply you told rep taxi they were rescues....on many occasions only for them to notice DAYS later they were for sale as part of your personal collection....
> 
> 
> SOOO>>>>
> 
> DID U LIE to rep taxi so you could get snakes for your personal collection brought to you by them CHEAP... or did you LIE on the forum that they were YOUR personal snakes not rehomes...
> 
> 
> BOTH CANT BE TRUE u idiot


Lol sparkle im an idiot can i be a first class one instead  
Sparkle Reptile Taxi only picked up a trio of chameleons from Cheltenham from a good friend and the commons from Christy which had to be rehomed before we moved and not to mention the kids being petrified of them because of there size which I had explained to Christy and asked if she would mind.


----------



## Diablo

rachy said:


> i have the emails to say could i collect before the 27th as you were moving......
> Someone i know and on RFUk saw them at your house in croyden!
> 
> Ive said my bit now , wont be long before this thread is locked!


Let me guess this person is drum roll please Blazing who created shit for us in the past when Laura got banned.


----------



## Diablo

Katiexx said:


> Ok i read twelve pages and then just realised i was reading the same thing over n over again
> 
> Diablo and Faith are fantastic people and only ever have the animals best interests at heart. People are jumping to assumptions n that's not fair.
> 
> Maybe they didn't want to advertise that they were a rescue to the mocking response alot have received on here for doing so, or maybe because then whenever a piccy of one of their own collection is shown , people expect it to be a rescue n pester them to rehome it? Or maybe as mentioned they receieved threatening calls.
> 
> It's up to them. or SHOULD have been up to them if they made this information public. N to do it without their permission is underhand in my opinion. I understand your concerns sparkle n think your a cool lass..but they are good people despite what you may think.
> 
> just my two penneth worth


Thank you Katie. When you going to let me pwn you on css lol


----------



## Esarosa

lol maybe later  off out rep shopping for goodies now. got a rehome i'm picking up tonight so need to get the last few pieces like some nice hides for the little lad


----------



## sparkle

Faith said:


> Well sparkle as i keep asking message me all those statments and i can let you know if we have ever had dealings with them but your not doing it are you?


 

i have just replied within the thread...

the very fact you are a rescue who is willing to FLAUT the law about DWA is disgusting...

theres no way to wriggle outof that is there,....

anyway as its my oldest birthday and were going to be having a party i cant be bothered wasting any more time on your underhandedness ar willingness to flout what is NOT only reptile hobbyists moral views BUT actual UK LAW!!!!

fantastic people especially above board rescues dotn do that do they,,,,

i posted a POSITIVE thread about Diablo last night... to which his reply was...

get the link to my rescue OFF the forum i dont want RFUK knowing im a rescue...

totally suss!


All i can say is people can draw their own conculsions...

i am sorry if you are upset diablo and i do not think for a second animals in your care are mistreated... however other members who have asked em to not name them have convos from msn with you showing your actions and convos to be really underhand fro a rescue... but more sorry so many people on here think your lying and flauting the LAW!

everyone can draw their own conclusions simple as....

we cant all agree... i agree with the facts ive been shown from msn convos... i disagree with diablo...

so i guess now we can agree to disagree and everyone else can take from it what they will..


----------



## Esarosa

That's not sus. The reason has been explained.

when i first joined the boards a couple of people were open about being rescues..n got slated left right n centre at every opportunity..sayin they were scammers to.

tbh if i was a rescue i'd try n keep it quiet around here, as people can be very quick to jump to conclusions..and be judgemental


----------



## Diablo

sparkle said:


> i have just replied within the thread...
> 
> the very fact you are a rescue who is willing to FLAUT the law about DWA is disgusting...
> 
> theres no way to wriggle outof that is there,....
> 
> anyway as its my oldest birthday and were going to be having a party i cant be bothered wasting any more time on your underhandedness ar willingness to flout what is NOT only reptile hobbyists moral views BUT actual UK LAW!!!!
> 
> fantastic people especially above board rescues dotn do that do they,,,,
> 
> i posted a POSITIVE thread about Diablo last night... to which his reply was...
> 
> get the link to my rescue OFF the forum i dont want RFUK knowing im a rescue...
> 
> totally suss!


The uk law sucks tbh could be worse I could be illegally importing torts couldnt I. What did your eldest think of her pressy that you got her. I told you last night sparkle Im not mad at you lol do you think im some sort of oger or something. Wriggling out of what that i was selling mangroves but the funny thing is ............... well never mind lol best not get into it, I actually have respect for the person. Go and enjoy the party Sparkle its your daughters birthday.


----------



## SuperTed

aha katie plays css? i feel a war coming on :no1:


----------



## Diablo

Diablo said:


> The uk law sucks tbh could be worse I could be illegally importing torts couldnt I. What did your eldest think of her pressy that you got her. I told you last night sparkle Im not mad at you lol do you think im some sort of oger or something. Wriggling out of what that i was selling mangroves but the funny thing is ............... well never mind lol best not get into it, I actually have respect for the person. Go and enjoy the party Sparkle its your daughters birthday.


So guess what the secret is out Im a rescue damn thats a weight from my shoulders now. Also if I have any reptiles for rehoming once they have been in and are healthy etc then they will be up for rehoming and a donation isnt required but you will be home checked by one of my associates


----------



## Diablo

SuperTed said:


> aha katie plays css? i feel a war coming on :no1:


SUPERTED You cant pwn to save your life lol.


----------



## SuperTed

Diablo said:


> SUPERTED You cant pwn to save your life lol.


ive just reinstalled source havnt played for months... i will pwn your ass now just wait..


----------



## Diablo

anymore questions ????? 

Also dont forget we have a Cali king up for rehome in excellent condition and is a beautiful snake.


----------



## Diablo

SuperTed said:


> ive just reinstalled source havnt played for months... i will pwn your ass now just wait..


Lol try it superted lol gungame all the way but need to find another server been banned for being toooo damn good lol.


----------



## SuperTed

gun game sucks lol 1on1 ftw -_-


----------



## Diablo

SuperTed said:


> gun game sucks lol 1on1 ftw -_-


Anytime any place mate lol. Ill pwn you. 

God this thread as gone up quick all about me as well I feel proud.


----------



## slither

Your pretty darn lucky I've just deleted CS:S:Na_Na_Na_Na:. It's crap compared to 1.6. Now on 1.6 I'l own you all. Superhero mod all the way, but gungames pretty damn good too.


----------



## Diablo

Now i do like 1.6 but do prefer source lol. Gungame rules i feel a battle of RFUKers lol maybe we should start a clan sponsered by RFUK lol


----------



## SuperTed

i play 1.6 more than source its much better!


----------



## slither

I'd be well up for a battle on 1.6. Me v all of ya! lol only joking I aren't that good. I do have good days though. I could reinstall source but tbh I never practiced enough to get good on it, I'm just that used to 1.6. I tried to play source the other day but in a fit of rage at being pwned all over the place I deleted it.


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## Faith

no way not CSS the OH is addicted to that game he was banned cus they cant beat him ranked number one on the gun game server


----------



## HABU

"what we got here is failure to communicate...failure to communicate...failure to....." :lol2:


----------



## Faith

pmsl hubu yoor a strange one really you are but in a good way


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## sami

HABU said:


> "what we got here is failure to communicate...failure to communicate...failure to....." :lol2:


Cool hand luke.

Next! 

Mason


----------



## Diablo

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Cool hand luke.
> 
> Next!
> 
> Mason


I dont have a clue what that is about lol think its more for the older people lol


----------



## SuperTed

slither what server do you play on? il give you a lil 1on1 :no1:


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## SuperTed

Faith said:


> no way not CSS the OH is addicted to that game he was banned cus they cant beat him ranked number one on the gun game server


he got banned because he joined the mYg0t!? forces :lol2:


----------



## hermanlover

what game is this?

lee


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## Diablo

LMAO MYGOD dont accuse me of playing with those lmao Guru3D was my old clan.


----------



## Diablo

californiankinglover said:


> what game is this?
> 
> lee


Lee its Counterstrike Source a Halflife 2 mod its a proper mint game lol.


----------



## sami

Diablo said:


> I dont have a clue what that is about lol think its more for the older people lol


I am 24. just have good taste in films 

Mason


----------



## HABU

Diablo said:


> I dont have a clue what that is about lol think its more for the older people lol


cool hand luke is a classic!


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## hermanlover

i loved halflife. i used to live on it. has anybody every played COD2. i used to play on that a lot!!!

just searching through my pc now to see what games are on it.

lee


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## jamie_coxon

i dont care whats bewen said about being a rescue. i think its good theres more rescues out there. and if you wanted to keep that to yourself then fine by me  just concerns me about the mangrove. anyone who is willing to risk someones live with the offer of a dwa animal that they carnt legally care for should be banned from owning/selling animals. thats just my opinion (sp).


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## Faith

Fair point Jamie but as ive said before they were not held with us they were with a friend who has a DWA


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## Diablo

lol Mason what film is it will have to watch it and see what you are on about lol.

Half life is a proper game wasn't very keen on Half Life 2 ending tho


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## slither

SuperTed said:


> slither what server do you play on? il give you a lil 1on1 :no1:


SuperTed your on, but it'll have to be in a few days. I'm going round a mates just after tea, and am stopping overnight (probably until Saturday) and I've got a feeling it's going to get messy. I need to take a trip to the offy and get some clothes together sharpish. At least you'll have the advantage of me being in a drink and drug related stupor imagining terrorists floating round the room and bombs ticking somewhere upstairs. Think Fear and Loathing.
Give us your account name or email addy and I'll add you to friends.
Remember your helmet your gona need it. 
BTW I play on Nordbronx fast dl Superhero mod (84.200.252.221.27015) and Alpha-networks.co.uk Superhero mod (217.146.93.37:27025) mainly, but the #CSUK servers are pretty good too. My fave maps are Dust/Dust2/Inferno and Nuke.


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## Diablo

lol the game is on then dont forget demos and if anyone fancys a 1on1 on source then give me a shout


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## rachy

Faith said:


> Fair point Jamie but as ive said before they were not held with us they were with a friend who has a DWA


Did you hold a DWA when you lived in Croyden?


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## Diablo

rachy said:


> Did you hold a DWA when you lived in Croyden?


Do you have a problem ??? Rachy what business is it of yours now. When it was you who tried obtaining one before hand. Let me guess you heard from Blazin which i have said before whos already tried to cause us shit with baby05x and that going around on my forums and slagging us off we know it was him due to the IP check we did. If you would like to continue this then PM me.


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## rachy

no i dont have a problem lol
do you?


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## Diablo

No i dont have a problem well i do have a problem but.............. its about how cold the weathers going lol


----------



## Blazin

Diablo said:


> Do you have a problem ??? Rachy what business is it of yours now. When it was you who tried obtaining one before hand. Let me guess you heard from Blazin which i have said before whos already tried to cause us shit with baby05x and that going around on my forums and slagging us off we know it was him due to the IP check we did. If you would like to continue this then PM me.


hang on a minute? ive been what sorry? i have better ways to spend my time then slagging u off on forums thats for sure. and it was baby05x who left the sh*tty messages on your website, not me. check my IP if u like? not sure why ive been dragged into this.


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## rachy

At the end of the day you were doing something you shouldnt have been doing!


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## Diablo

Blazin said:


> hang on a minute? ive been what sorry? i have better ways to spend my time then slagging u off on forums thats for sure. and it was baby05x who left the sh*tty messages on your website, not me. check my IP if u like? not sure why ive been dragged into this.


Dont reply then Blazin. Simple.


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## Diablo

rachy said:


> At the end of the day you were doing something you shouldnt have been doing!


I was actually doing more things than what you say i used to smoke before the legal age of smoking i used to drink under age everyone does things which they wasnt meant to of could of been worse couldnt it i could of been selling rattlesnakes or cobras.


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## rachy

Diablo said:


> Dont reply then Blazin. Simple.


You brought his name up twice , give him a chance to defend himself!!!!!


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## Diablo

He can not be bothered can he? if thats the case then he doesnt need to be here does he. Already been told once for remarks towards myself before.


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## rachy

He's a kid for heavens sake , kids are annoying , adults should know better!


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## Moshpitviper

Back to the matter at hand.... this year i have had rescue royals in. lots in fact.... probably 6 or 7 this year. and a pair did indeed breed. in fact the babies are still here. i am quite attatched to them, and would have made no attempt to sell them to make a profit. surely as someone suggested earlier, this is just adding to the problem. if i recall mason and mrs mason took the ltc pair of royals, and as normal when they asked for a donation i stated that the best possible home is all i want for these animals and a donation is purely discretionary. they very kindly gave me £20. now that might seem like a small sum of money for an adult pair of royals, but i knew they were going to a good home and that £20 went a long way towards a weeks worth of food. and 9 times out of 10 i dont recieve ANY donation due to my somewhat unorthodox policy. So i am truly thankful for any donation i recieve. i try to take the best care of all the animals that stay here for their rehabilitation or quarantine period whatever u deem fit to call it. i make atempts to provide as much enrichment within the enclosures as is possible whilst still retaining a decent standard of hygiene.. and we all know that too much STUFF in your tanks makes it a nightmare to clean. 

Anyway I'd like to point out the person discussed on page one was not me. and i for one am sick to the back f***ing teeth of being lumbered in the same boat as this pond scum. I have tried my hardest for 7 years to improve the lives of animals. I have had my heart broken by deaths, Nearly lost my home, very nearly lost my partner, definately lost friends, sacrificed any semblance of a social life, gone without food for days on end, suffered a nervous breakdown etc.... the list could go on. and if it did it may make me appear a little bitter about the whole thing and i have no regrets... none whatsoever. but i think im going to call it a day as a rescue. i know i have said it before but this time i am serious. I have come under fire in the past for mere speculation... dragged thru the mud in my local newspaper by ????? a fellow keeper!!!! how do we expect this communtiy to continue if we're sticking knives in each others backs?

7 years, well over 1000 animals. i think i had a good run. but i cant continue anymore. not while people like this are still out there putting me and all others who believe themselves genuine under constant scrutiny.

and finally to all out there with an authoritarian approach to rescuing.

why register with companies house? why should the taxman take a locust from a rescue chameleon? or a rat from a rescue boa? he shouldn't. I do not feel i have undertaken any criminal act and am appalled that you made me and others feel in the same boat as rapists and murderers for doing good work. you should spend less time doing tax returns and more time helping animals in your care.

as mother theresa once said.... 'in life you cannot do great things.... only small things with great love'.

thanks for reading my essay.


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## Diablo

Eh taxman companies house. How are you Pond scum ?????? Because your not registered you have me in the state of Confused.com


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## Moshpitviper

some joker a while ago stated on here that it is ILLEGAL to operate as a rescue unless registered as either a charity or a limited company. 

which may well be true. but i dont like being called a criminal.

nobody does.... i dont think anyway.


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## Diablo

We had that row with a fellow rescue, saying that you need to be registered etc to be a rescue because its taxable etc but it isn't we took legal advice and spoke to DEFRA and other partys to find out the correct procedures. We also found out that you dont have to be a registered charity unless the charity is earning more than £5,000 a year.


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## Moshpitviper

yeah . i think i had the same row with them. total shite


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## Esarosa

back from shopping

god i should be banned spent £100 quid on a bit of food n hides..oh n a heat mat..i dont think i came home with anything else :| i've got problems! 

fell in love with a leucistic rat snake.

Suprised this threads still going on hehe.

when is the css war happening then? can guarantee you will all own me.. my game freezes all the time..unfreeze n i'm usually dead lol

(ps t'other halfs gone picking up the new snake! Classic corn that was looked after by claireburniston after the police came across it)


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## Scoffa

wohic said:


> Someone mentioned breeding from rescues ? In some respects thats no bad thing, especially if they are animals rarly offered as captive bred, then boosting the population of the captive bred animals should be encouraged.


Regardless of what morph they are it's wrong. It's like saying lets have 20 children when we live in a 3 bed house. The reptile market is flooded with corn morphs why do we need to breed any more?


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## Diablo

Ive PMed you mate


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## Moshpitviper

right back at ya kiddo.


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## wohic

Scoffa said:


> Regardless of what morph they are it's wrong. It's like saying lets have 20 children when we live in a 3 bed house. The reptile market is flooded with corn morphs why do we need to breed any more?


 
I am not talking about corn morphs.............

I said animals that are rarly sold as captive bred, breeding programs should be encouraged, they can even help repopulate wild populations.


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## HABU

wohic said:


> I am not talking about corn morphs.............
> 
> I said animals that are rarly sold as captive bred, breeding programs should be encouraged, they can even help repopulate wild populations.


 
that's why i'm working towards breeding emeralds, all mine are wild caughts and i want more captive bred availible for people. it's not about the money, money's nice but you really can't make money off of emeralds, people are too afraid to keep them. it's hard to find buyers really. i want to take some of the stigma away and see prices drop for captive bred. i don't see anything wrong with that. just my little contribution to the hobby.


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## brittone05

I don't wish to recreate an argument and I know that, as an ousider tot he situaiton, this is my opinion only - not based on fact but based on posts made by both Rachy and Diable/Faith.

I find it very astounding the blase attitude you hold towards the mangorve snakes. You may not have held them in your care whilst they were being advertised but to be willing to, and as far as Rachy's post summises, sell one ot a non DWA holder is totally irresponsible.

Not only does this flout the law that is put in place, it can as a direct effect of oyur actions, put further restrictions on those who actually respect the regulations put into place for the safety of not just the snake but the general public.

What if you had let it go to someone who didn't actually have a clue? their child gets it and gets bitten - I guess you would still be devoid of any responsibility as it is now thier problem - their child, thier snake?

I hold respect for those who rescue for the love of the hobby - I salute LRR for the sacrifces they have obviously made for the pasison they feel regarding the rescue side of exotic keeping but I find it such a shame that you seem so passive and unattached witht he possible consequences of your actions.


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## claire_e_dodd

Whoa this thread is one hell of a read!

Just one thing I picked up on, i'm not sure who said it first, but I too am a little concerned that if so many people have confided in Sparkle about Diablo's 'dodgy' dealings, then why haven't they come forward and admitted it on this thread?

One reason I can imagine is that whatever their opinion, they don't want to be involved in a public slating aimed at one person. I don't mean to be rude or presumtious, but Sparkle, did these people know you were going t go public with the information they provided you?

It's one thing having a private slanging match, everyone bitches about people it just a fact of life, but to publically announce it like this is another.

It seems to me that the majority of this thread is verging towards a public execution, (not literally) and is the war equivelant of a rugby player holding a midget at arms length. I'm not saying people are not entitled to their opinions about this guy, but can anyone be sure they posess ALL the facts.

I see no problem with starting a thread to warn others of possible dodgy dealings in classifieds, but couldn't you just have posted tips on what to watch for, questions that should be asked etc?

Diablo I have never dealt with you, so I cannot comment on the way you deal on classifieds. In regards to the mangrove issue, I doubt anyone on here has never broken the law. We've all seen those adverts of how dangerous it is to speed, (kid dies when hit at 40mph & lives when hit at 30mph) but I doubt there are any drivers on here who have never exceded the speed limit, yet are we not putting lives at risk then?

From what has been said I don't think that everything adds up 100%, but then if I feel something underhand was happening, I would just not deal with that person, I don't think I could justify a naming and shaming thread without first taking my evidence direct to the suspected 'culprit'.

Anyway, I apologise if I have offended anyone, but I just don't agree with the way this has been handled, it made for some very uncomfortable reading and I think it would have been better kept to PMs. (I know it's a bit hypocritical me posting after saying that but no ones perfect lol)


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## Faith

Thanks for your comments Claire I personally can assure you we do nothing underhand and have always offered anyone that says we do to come to the house but they never do. Of course people are entitled to opinion but if its based on facts or not is a different story. As i keep saying there is no way we have Personally dealt with 20 people on the forums in regard to our rescues in fact i think the most amount of people that have actually seen our collection i could count on one hand but again people forget that too 
I agree that if people had a problem with the way we deal with our reptiles out of these 20 people they should have the courage to at least PM us but as of yet we have had no PM's regarding complaints to the way we deal with things i have a huge mailing list full of people that are happy with our service and ones that are waiting in line to adopt a reptile if i needed to i could ask each and everyone of them to write about their experiences with us and the only bad thing they would prob say would be " we were offered so much coffee and tea that we didnt think we would make it down the motorway with out needing the loo" or " they wouldnt let their Staffordshire bull terrier out to play" lol 
Again thanks for the comments and any one can feel free to PM me with details of the 20 people that have complained


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## purejurrasic

Well, cant miss the chance of posting on this thread.

If i remember rightly, there was a post made, not by anyone who has posted on this thread, that stated a lot of pure crap regarding what was needed to be a rescue, including not using the word 'rescue' in the name.

A number of people asked questions, tried to clarify things, and at the time these were just removed from the thread, leaving the totaly incorrect post intact !

I recall having msn convos with a few peeps at the time, Paul was one, and made no effort to cover up his views or act underhandly !

Just for the record, I DO rescues and breed geckos, if anyone dont like it, tough !!

If reptiles were kept properly and good advice was given freely, then rescues wouldnt be needed !

Tony


----------



## Faith

Thanks for you comments Tony 
You being one of the first people that came to our house from the forums, would you in your opinion say that anything we were doing with our reptiles was in any way underhanded ? would you say that any of our animals looked uncared for or not in fit health?

I really would appreciate your comments, im not saying that anyone has mentioned the care of our reptiles but just for the record so that more assumptions aren't made


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## Fangio

easty said:


> Sparkle you should be feeling very sparkly for bringing this demons hellish behaviour to everyones attention :lol2: dont think there is a clapping smilie otherwise you would get a round of aplause from me.


----------



## pastelpython

ive read the whole thread...yet still none the wiser lol


----------



## the-tick

I've never broken the law................I've bent it somewhat till I got splinters of the law lodged in my................oh bugger wrong forum

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


----------



## pixie_bex

Fangio said:


>


 
hee hee fangio has the clap :lol2:


----------



## Fangio

pixie_bex said:


> hee hee fangio has the clap :lol2:


.......and I'm sharing it with you all!:lol2:


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## t-bo

purejurrasic said:


> A number of people asked questions, tried to clarify things, and at the time these were just removed from the thread, leaving the totaly incorrect post intact !


That doesnt sound like something that would happen here, if posts were removed it there was more to it than that.


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## purejurrasic

t-bo said:


> That doesnt sound like something that would happen here, if posts were removed it there was more to it than that.


There may well have been more to it, i know there were a number of posts that i didnt get the chance to see, as the whole thread was removed to enable the editing.

I know your mods spent a load of time sorting it all out, and did indeed pick up on the thread I started about how it p****d me off.

However, I know for a fact that legit questions I asked in a polite manner raising doubt of the statement made were removed.

But...

That was a long time ago and all done and dusted as far as I go, I only raised the subject due to the fact it seemed as if the post was being used against someone.



*Faith*

Cards on the table time !....

I am a bit miffed that theres another gecko breeder in brighton, and I sure as hell got weary of all the posts about the 'super leo collection' but, thats just me, If am am proud of something, I shout about it as well.

However. If i thought for a moment that you guys did not give the right care, there is no way on earth I would have allowed you to buy my fat tails. OK, seems you may have changed your minds and sold some on, may even have made a profit, that dont bother me, why should it, I done a transation with you guys, after that, its not my business.

When I visited you, your topic content made me belive that you were more than capable of taking the geckos on, your freedom and willingness to show me your other reptiles told me there was nothing to hide.

Fair comment is maybe some of the vivs were a bit sparse, BUT in quanenteen and isolation cases this is exactly what I would expect to see.

So, Paul may go on a bit about his leos, there may be questions as to which morphs they may be, but from what I saw, theres no question as to the care.


----------



## saxon

Hi,

I haven't read all the 20+ pages of this but just wanted to add my 'twopennorth worth'.

I don't know who it is that is being refferred to, I don't think, but I don't agree with his 'tactics'.

I have 'rescued' snakes, we still have them, I have also dealt with a lot of other rescue species over the last 30 years or so.

I understand that 'rescues' need to be re-homed but on the occasions I've re-homed I always ask that the 're-homing' donation is for a registered rescue centre near or in my area. I never ask for any money for myself. Even if I've had to spend money on the rescue animal. I'm not made of money but I do it for the love of animals not for profit. This is why I only help the animals that I know won't live without my intervention.

I currently have a rescue GSD bitch. The police were going to have her PTS simply because she was an eldery GSD. Obviously there's more to the story but I haven't the time to go into it here. I've paid for her neutered, yesterday, when she is re-homed I will ask for a donation for the GSD re-homing centre. I will give the new owner the website address and get the rescue centre to email them with a thankyou for the donation.


----------



## Diablo

Lol at the part about you being miffed mate but i wont tread on your toes lol  be good to do some swapping of males and that tbh lol  You have made some very valid comments mate, the vivs are no longer looking like that lol more green in the cham viv than there is anything else. Grabbed a excellent plant from BnQ now its like trying to play hunt the chameleon lol. But as your closer than anyone else your more than welcome to come around and check out our conditions who knows you might even go home with something pretty and im not on about Faith lol.


----------



## purejurrasic

Love to see you try to get faith in a cricket tub readyto take home ! 

:lol2:


no....really, I would !











:lol2:


----------



## pastelpython

purejurrasic said:


> Love to see you try to get faith in a cricket tub readyto take home !
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> 
> no....really, I would !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol2:


 
:lol2::lol2:


----------



## Diablo

purejurrasic said:


> Love to see you try to get faith in a cricket tub readyto take home !
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> 
> no....really, I would !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol2:


Lol mate shes very flexable do you think i could try and get her in one prehaps we could do an exchange on some leos lol im going to get shot now arent i LMAO


----------



## purejurrasic

Diablo said:


> Lol mate shes very flexable do you think i could try and get her in one prehaps we could do an exchange on some leos lol im going to get shot now arent i LMAO


mmm, tempting.... how often does she need feeding, and is she costly to keep?


----------



## Diablo

Shes not that bad on food costs its just the nicotine addiction that takes up all the money lol  Not to mention the caffeine and heating bills are high. She needs grooming every now and then and enjoys a long soak in the bath. But she as a fascination with royal pythons which may cause a problem. But she is well worth it lol. You would need something spectacular for a part exchange lol


----------



## pastelpython

Diablo said:


> _Shes not that bad on food costs its just the nicotine addiction that takes up all the money lol _ Not to mention the caffeine and heating bills are high. She needs grooming every now and then and enjoys a long soak in the bath. But she as a fascination with royal pythons which may cause a problem. But she is well worth it lol. You would need something spectacular for a part exchange lol


great! : victory:


----------



## purejurrasic

Sorry mate, just been informed that the female of this species costs a load more than the male, is more fussy and have tendancies to turn moody or indeed violent, so i withdraw my offer !

I think its so wrong of you to not inform me of these facts in order to just off load her !



:lol2:


----------



## Diablo

LOL MATE

Sorry about that leaving those bits out plus not to mention 7 days of each month you want to beware and cage the bitch LMAO.


----------



## pastelpython

sorry to say this,but ive read the thread,dont fully understand whats gone on,but from the way you talk about your `bitch` ..which she might be,but anyway...it dosnt give the right impression.

Rescuers are highly respected people, and people put a lot of trust into them, You dont come across as either of them 2 things to me.
And if i was going to rehome/buy/donate to you... after reading this theres no way i would.

You have just come across as a complete **** in this thread and it really dosnt do you much good.


----------



## weelad

slither said:


> I'd be well up for a battle on 1.6. Me v all of ya! lol only joking I aren't that good. I do have good days though. I could reinstall source but tbh I never practiced enough to get good on it, I'm just that used to 1.6. I tried to play source the other day but in a fit of rage at being pwned all over the place I deleted it.


oh ill play ya on 1.6 , i havnt played in a long long while but think its still installed


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## Esarosa

Sparkle, no offense meant here hun, but i think it was a little underhand to paste the msn convo that took place between you and tops without his express permission to do so beforehand..

Also one could read the first convo to be completely innocent,n someone desperately trying to salvage their reputation, and keep the fact they're a rescue quiet? just another view point


----------



## the-tick

to be fair sparkle there is nothing in that pasted convo that's actually incriminating ?


----------



## t-bo

Im closing this, everyone had had their say and it does not appear there is anything further to add. We dont want to get to pasting conversation from msn and such as it all gets a bit silly when this happens.

Ive also removed the private convo pasted as requested, like I say it wasnt necessary.


----------

