# Natural vemomoid



## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

If there was a natural accuring venomoid, not saying there's a colony of venomoid king cobras, but say there was a freak of nature and there was one found to be completley venomoid. Im guessing this still wouldnt be able to be kept without a DWAL?

How about selective breeding, would it be possible theoretically to take that specimen and breed natural venomoids from it?

Ignoring moral arguments for the moment, what do you think?


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah i reckon that could be done. Not quite sure how you'd start it all off!:lol2:


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## hermanlover (Jul 8, 2007)

probably. it would be tricky as you would have to mess around with the DNA and remove the chromosomes that are there to give the body the information to produce venom. 

i hope that makes sense

lee


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

californiankinglover said:


> probably. it would be tricky as you would have to mess around with the DNA and remove the chromosomes that are there to give the body the information to produce venom.
> 
> i hope that makes sense
> 
> lee


Incubation temps can effect genes easily enough, plus it already has mutated genes preventing it from having the venom in the first place.


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## Amber (Jun 11, 2006)

How would you test that your selective breeding worked? Eeeek.

Depends what type of gene it is...


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

maybe it would work, but you would still need a dwa. there is a place in the states called venomoidinc that do loads of venomoids, they have a venomoid black mamba for$1200 at the moment:grin1:


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## Amber (Jun 11, 2006)

jaysnakeman said:


> maybe it would work, but you would still need a dwa. there is a place in the states called venomoidinc that do loads of venomoids, they have a venomoid black mamba for$1200 at the moment:grin1:



Yack.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont recon its possible, plus, two venomoids would not give birth to a venomoid.


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

SiUK said:


> I dont recon its possible, plus, two venomoids would not give birth to a venomoid.


How come?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

WeThePeople said:


> How come?


probably the same reason that if you had two dogs with no tails, they wouldn't produce tailless dogs.
Venomoids are made that way by humans and still have the genes in them to produce venomous young.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

markhill said:


> probably the same reason that if you had two dogs with no tails, they wouldn't produce tailless dogs.
> Venomoids are made that way by humans and still have the genes in them to produce venomous young.


yeh thats right, because venomoid is a surgical procedure, not a genetic trait, if thats the right phrase.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

i think he meant if the snakes were born without venom glands like a genetic defect, which can be passed on just look at colour morphs in snakes they are genetic defects that have been passed on


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

if it was a genetic defect then theres a chance it could get passed on, but the chance of two snakes with the same venom gland defect mating in the wild must be practically impossible.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

maybe but they could well be from the same litter this is a theoretical situation after all


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## claire_e_dodd (Sep 18, 2007)

Does anyone know of a WC venomous snake with this genetic defect causing no venom to be produced?

I understand what you're saying, and if this genetic defect can occur in the wild I think it would make for an interesting breeding project!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

its the luck of the draw finding a natural venomoid I cant imagine its very common, and if it did happen, the snake probably wouldnt live very long anyway, because it has no way of killing prey.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

how could a venomous snake without venom even survive?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

exactly, in the wild it just wouldnt, if in captivity one was born a natural venomiod as a defect, unless it was being milked how would you ever know?


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

In the wild it probably wouldn't survive, but in captivity it can. Just last night I met a venomoid cobra, she is 21 years old and she had her glands removed when she was young. Something to do with the amount of energy expended to produce more venom is equal to (or thereabouts) the amount of energy expended to digest a prey item that hasn't been broken down. 

People breed scaleless snakes from scaled parents so who knows? Anythings possible.


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## claire_e_dodd (Sep 18, 2007)

> its the luck of the draw finding a natural venomoid I cant imagine its very common, and if it did happen, the snake probably wouldnt live very long anyway, because it has no way of killing prey.


Ah yes I never considered that lol.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

venom glands are just modified salivary glands after all...


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

It probably can be done but you need to mess around with all the genetics!

A natural venemoid in the wild would not last long at all because it cant kill its prey!:no1:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've handled copper heads with no gloves, it was incredibly stupid but still something to remember. i don't like the venomoid practice. it takes away from the animal. like de-clawing a cat.


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## DragonKeeper (Jun 30, 2007)

haha tell us the story on how you got bit by one of them buggers


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've already told it. but that wasn't from handling!:lol2: it was from not paying attention!:icon_redface::crazy:


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Quite a few of the cobras actually will hold onto some prey items while biting, so they should be able to subdue at least some prey items with jaw pressure. 
So it might well be possible for a natural venomoid (elapid at least) to survive.

Mike


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

masticophis said:


> Quite a few of the cobras actually will hold onto some prey items while biting, so they should be able to subdue at least some prey items with jaw pressure.
> So it might well be possible for a natural venomoid (elapid at least) to survive.
> 
> Mike


hey mate do you think it would be possible for a natural venoid to happen?


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Yes I do think it's possible, but very very unlikely to happen.

However if it was ever found in captivity and it was capable of being replicated then i could certainly see it being a very popular morph.

Mike


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## dannylatics (Mar 27, 2007)

very good topic!! I would kill for a non harmful king cobra!!!

Reckon it would be VERY pricey tho!!


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