# doncaster reptile show june 20th



## bbeefy (Apr 10, 2009)

was a great show but was disapointed by the amount of snakes there and some were serious crap but on the pluss side managed to get myself 98%stripe royal for cheap


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

We had a great day at the Lizard Planet table 

Met loads of people and we was reasonably busy.

I managed to only spend 2.99 on some silk worms but my wife let the side down and brought as APH!

All in all a good day tho!


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## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

2 yemens chams and a leatherback red/citrus beardy.

I love my new chams! 

My partner probably would of bought out all of 'Where dragons dwell' s table, but we haven't got the room. He was like a kid in a candy shop lol. 

Had to leave early as my brother said our husky was missing us and whining, but a great day!


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## bbeefy (Apr 10, 2009)

i was shocked at how young some of the geckos were i cant rember which stall it was but had geckos about 20 in a tank all less then a month old dint realise how many there was felt bit unfair on them as all so young and small


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

I did notice there were alot of expensive royals and not much variety this time, I was surprised by the lack of leo morphs! I gotta miss September show too...cos I will be in America...oh what a shame lol


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

bbeefy said:


> i was shocked at how young some of the geckos were i cant rember which stall it was but had geckos about 20 in a tank all less then a month old dint realise how many there was felt bit unfair on them as all so young and small


 
yeh about 95% of all the leos on that stall were way to small to be for sale, not good in my eyes


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## bbeefy (Apr 10, 2009)

shep1979 said:


> yeh about 95% of all the leos on that stall were way to small to be for sale, not good in my eyes




so i wasnt the only one who thort that i was with my mate who is a leo breader and he said they were at the oldest 4weeks but some looked less then a week old i did tell one of the show staff and apprently they were fine to be sold


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## platypus (Aug 27, 2007)

*Not good*



bbeefy said:


> i was shocked at how young some of the geckos were i cant rember which stall it was but had geckos about 20 in a tank all less then a month old dint realise how many there was felt bit unfair on them as all so young and small


 This is the sort of thing that attacts lots of negative attention


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## bbeefy (Apr 10, 2009)

dont get me wrong i loved the show just was shocked at lack of choice now planning to go to kempton show is that any good ?


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Its early in the year. Like me, many people have hatchling snakes and eggs still in the incubator. The ones that have hatched have only had a couple of feeds so not ready for sale yet. September there will be more 2010 snakes ready and feeding well


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## bbeefy (Apr 10, 2009)

true it was good show still thou 98 %stripe royal late 09 for what i thort was decent price


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## inkiepixie (Jun 8, 2010)

I was a little disturbed to see some corn snake hatchlings for sale that had hatched less than a week before the show.


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## norfendz (Jun 30, 2008)

ok the first thing i feel sorry for you all because i have not heard many good comments about the show but the min thing is i am feeling a little bit better now because i was quite upset that i couldnt go yesterday lol so every cloud and that


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## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

norfendz said:


> ok the first thing i feel sorry for you all because i have not heard many good comments about the show but the min thing is i am feeling a little bit better now because i was quite upset that i couldnt go yesterday lol so every cloud and that


Dont mean to rain on your parade but I really enjoyed it! But I'm not a keeper of snakes though  Definently going in sept


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## Grandpa (Oct 7, 2009)

Sarah-Jayne said:


> I did notice there were alot of expensive royals and not much variety this time, I was surprised by the lack of leo morphs! I gotta miss September show too...cos I will be in America...oh what a shame lol



Theres always the Kempton Park Show in August..

Cannot comment on how good it is, because this is the FIRST joint Society Breeders Expo..hopefully it will be brilliant!

the IHS Doncaster show was very good, although there were a lot of Corns, Royal Morphs, & Beardies for sale - this is the norm these days.
I did see the stall with a box of small leos' but didnt pay much attention (not my thing).. Hatchling snakes should have had their first slough and at least three unassisted meals before sale - unless the vendor is open and honest with the purchaser, then let them make the decision..
( Yes, I did succumb - bought a pair of mutant(albino)cape house snakes).


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## norfendz (Jun 30, 2008)

yea sorry tilly lol i didnt mean everyone had a bad time i mean whatever i still would of absolutly loved to be there having never been to anything like that before so ma little jealous nasty streak is coming out for all you that was there lol


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## skippy225 (Aug 14, 2008)

inkiepixie said:


> I was a little disturbed to see some corn snake hatchlings for sale that had hatched less than a week before the show.


we came accross this stall, we were offered a non feeder pewter corn for £90 which we thought was a bit excessive!!
regards
nick


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## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

norfendz said:


> yea sorry tilly lol i didnt mean everyone had a bad time i mean whatever i still would of absolutely loved to be there having never been to anything like that before so ma little jealous nasty streak is coming out for all you that was there lol


haha np  you should really go next time though, even if there's nothing for you to take home with you its nice to look around. There's a;ways next time remember


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## welshlad2925 (Mar 15, 2010)

It was the first time i have been to one and i could not belive how small the snakes was that they was selling but there was some nice beared dragons at the where dragons dwell table 

i got a Orange tiger trans het hypo leatherback very cheap so glad i went

Cheers:2thumb:


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## norfendz (Jun 30, 2008)

well in september i got mine and my girlfriends first annerversary(complete wrong spelling lol) and her birthday like 5 days after it and as i dont work id have to start saving now lol


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## Austin Allegro (Oct 5, 2008)

bbeefy said:


> i was shocked at how young some of the geckos were i cant rember which stall it was but had geckos about 20 in a tank all less then a month old dint realise how many there was felt bit unfair on them as all so young and small


 Tell you what you didn't see any less than a month on my stall or any in groups. I only sell at a minimum of 18 grams at shows.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

bbeefy said:


> i was shocked at how young some of the geckos were i cant rember which stall it was but had geckos about 20 in a tank all less then a month old dint realise how many there was felt bit unfair on them as all so young and small



I am shocked to read that the IHS still have not learnt from the past and so continue to allow this. 



shep1979 said:


> yeh about 95% of all the leos on that stall were way to small to be for sale, not good in my eyes



imagine for a moment what it looks like through an "anti's" eyes then?????Is it any wonder they persist in trying to get the shows stopped.?



bbeefy said:


> so i wasnt the only one who thort that i was with my mate who is a leo breader and he said they were at the oldest 4weeks but some looked less then a week old i did tell one of the show staff and apprently they were fine to be sold


If that is fact, and I have no reason to doubt it, then no surprise there. 

I was pointing out errors with regards to the animal welfare back in the early ninties and was ignored then by those that still seem to think they know best. It is often at at the cost of the animals health and welfare, that makes them the lowest of the low in my book. 

How popular will I be now????????
 


platypus said:


> This is the sort of thing that attacts lots of negative attention


Too right, and its down to the few organisers that allow this sort of thing to continue, thus they invite it with open arms.



inkiepixie said:


> I was a little disturbed to see some corn snake hatchlings for sale that had hatched less than a week before the show.


That is disgraceful and something I kicked up about at another IHS and was ignored. i also had to pick up the pieces by taking on some non-feeders sold to beginners that luckily found me. To think it is still happening makes me ashamed to be a part of this hobby. That is not caring for the reptiles as one should when it is a hobby, but pure greed in not caring for the snakes welfare, just stick the snakes together, let them breed, wait for the poor female to lay and then incubate the eggs, and then get shot to save time getting them to feed, and thus also avoid any non-feeders. That is not my definition of a true hobbyist, but a money grabbing non caring holder of animals used for gain only and not to learn from and enjoy.



Grandpa said:


> the IHS Doncaster show was very good, although there were a lot of Corns, Royal Morphs, & Beardies for sale - this is the norm these days.
> I did see the stall with a box of small leos' but didnt pay much attention (not my thing).. Hatchling snakes should have had their first slough and at least three unassisted meals before sale - unless the vendor is open and honest with the purchaser, then let them make the decision..
> ( Yes, I did succumb - bought a pair of mutant(albino)cape house snakes).



Even if the vendor is honest Grandpa, this can still be very stressful for ones so young, and can often lead to more stress with non-feeding as a result. It is on par with CF and WC hatchling royals for example being imported straight out of the egg. I thought being CB we would have moved away from that way of doing things. Asides from that I personally have both seen and picked up the end result of so many people thinking they can get the snake feeding easily, only to find later to the snakes detriment that they can't as it is not always as easy as it seems and in fact takes experience most of the time to get the little ones started. 



skippy225 said:


> we came accross this stall, we were offered a non feeder pewter corn for £90 which we thought was a bit excessive!!
> regards
> nick


That goes some way to prove what was more mportant here. 



Austin Allegro said:


> Tell you what you didn't see any less than a month on my stall or any in groups. I only sell at a minimum of 18 grams at shows.


Well said and done on your part. You can hold your head up high.  
It's such a shame for others like you that truly care to have to mix with the likes of others that don't, but I have to place blame with the show organisers here for allowing them to get away with it, even when it is pointed out to them.

Mo. 

PS I know this thread is over a month old now but have only just seen it whilst looking for some other older posts on here.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Maureen Collinson said:


> I am shocked to read that the IHS still have not learnt from the past and so continue to allow this.
> 
> imagine for a moment what it looks like through an "anti's" eyes then?????Is it any wonder they persist in trying to get the shows stopped.?
> 
> ...


welcome to the Unpopular Club then Maureen ~ several of us have not only advocated a guideline of *not* selling leo and aft hatchlings until they are at least 7-8 weeks old and/or 20 grams in weight but have also repeatedly brought up the topic of people selling leos and AFT's - imo - far too young and small time and time again and we've been blasted for it


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

Sadly i have also witnessed seeing captive bred reps being sold too young this year and feel it's very stressful for the youngsters and i remember back last year my ex bought a ghost corn from there that wouldnt feed for quite some time thankfully it did start about a month or 2 down the line


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

if you see under age or blatant wc animals for sale tell the organisers if they dont do anything tell another none of us want to see this at shows but if you dont say they cant sort it :2thumb:


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Have you ever tried to get though to the likes of Richard Brooks, Terry????

My personal experience face to face with Richard was that he chose to ignore my reports of non-feeders/under aged and such. As Richard is the main organiser of the Doncaster IHS show, he is the one with the clout, not the others. Perhaps you could take note, and maybe if you spot the same try Richard yourself as the way it stands at present, it is a *huge* black mark on the hobby, and a total let down for those of you that care and ensure the best for your reptiles.

If I had a wish at this moment in time, although it might be too late for any shows due now that are already booked up, I would wish that all future organisers would place a *ban *on the flimsy cricket boxes, with the exception of the live food products for the amphibians/reptiles etc, IE, crickets/locusts/morio/mealworms. This would make a huge difference all round to the safety and security of the creatures within.

Of course the above would never satisfy the "Anti's, but that should not stop us from doing the right thing. Many animal lovers will see the boxes as wrong, (if it is those retched flimsy cricket boxes, so easily crushable, they are right.) Those same people could well out of kindness place a tiny flower seedling into a huge pot to give it lots of space, only to watch it die for the most, as it was way too much space too quickly. (I have done this in the past, but learnt quickly from the death of some special flower seedlings that I really wanted to thrive.) Any experienced gardener would tell them/us that. Reptiles are akin to seedlings in that you move them up slowly one pot/box/size bigger at a time. That way they thrive, instead of dying. Now many people reading the negative views can and would accept this explanation without question.

Mo.


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

SleepyD said:


> welcome to the Unpopular Club then Maureen ~ several of us have not only advocated a guideline of *not* selling leo and aft hatchlings until they are at least 7-8 weeks old and/or 20 grams in weight but have also repeatedly brought up the topic of people selling leos and AFT's - imo - far too young and small time and time again and we've been blasted for it


 
Yes I 100% agree! and dont I know it!.


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

Maureen Collinson said:


> Have you ever tried to get though to the likes of Richard Brooks, Terry????
> 
> My personal experience face to face with Richard was that he chose to ignore my reports of non-feeders/under aged and such. As Richard is the main organiser of the Doncaster IHS show, he is the one with the clout, not the others. Perhaps you could take note, and maybe if you spot the same try Richard yourself as the way it stands at present, it is a *huge* black mark on the hobby, and a total let down for those of you that care and ensure the best for your reptiles.
> 
> ...


 yes maureen i have spoke to richard! to be honest i cant see why you keep stirring all this ammonition up repeatedly for the antis, cricket tubs are not as flimsy as you keep making out, i personally think you should start thinking about what you keep putting on open forums and if you have issues make them in person you could of come to the f.b.h lectures like some of us did and discussed the shows ,but you didnt!if you came to doncaster in at least the last couple of years and not in the days of the black lion you will see welfare is becoming a much higher standard ,yes there are the odd dodgy person selling under age,not had first feed,animals but if people do not mention this to the organisers it will not be rectified ,and to be honest richard is not the only member of the organisers there but he is probably the most stressed and busy so i would of spoke to someone else


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Terry,

I would have liked nothing better than to have gone to the FBH conference, but am recovering from a serious accident which did involve broken bones which may still require an operation 2 months on, so was unable to go.

As for the Anti's reading here, I know for a fact they are, and with all of the comments made by others over and over, do you not think they are also aware of it. What they are seeing now is people that are unhappy with the situation and trying hard to rectify it , rather than hide it away and hope it's not noticed. They are far from silly which is why they have a wealth of money and members behind them. You can't fool them but you can look silly trying. 

I went full time into rescue, picking up the problems along the way over the years due to the bad side of the hobby, and so feel having remained self supported right up to my recent retirement that I have every right to protest. I said goodbye to thousands of pounds over the years. Would I do it again, maybe not as I think my money would have gone on animal welfare matters, not to ban the hobby but to attempt to improve it. 

The breeders get paid, I did not but it always cost me to make amends, and yes I have always, and still have a beef about the way some of the reptiles are treated and I can't sit back and ignore it as I care too much for every reptile out there, and it is painful to see the stress, death and suffering so often shown on here, knowing much could be avoided.

What you are doing terry, is announcing that you are one of the people that prefer to see the bad things hidden, out of sight out of mind. That won't fool anyone, only make things appear even blacker on the surface. 

Could you please also read each and every post fully as by your reply it is obvious that you have not taken every post on the show threads in.

You are right in that I have not attended the last few IHS shows, but there has been enough on here about them, and I have spoken with people behind the scenes about the deaths of reptiles due to the intense heat under the glass dome room for one, which I know has been changed now, but it happened more than once, so things are still not good.

At the ERAC show I attended last year, the sun came through a large window directly onto a table or two and immediately this problem was overcome by the very quick reaction of the Club Committee who put a large blind up. All power to them. Long may they all continue. 

You may not be able to cover a dome but tables should have been moved. There would have been an answer some where. I am left angry when I hear of such things, and because I love these creatures so much it is down right painful for me too. 

I don't want hobby's banned, far from it, but I do have animal welfare high on the list. In fact it is in the fore front for me, always has been, and always will be. I have always spoken up for the reptiles, and always will until I am unable to speak/write/type.

Sorry to be at cross swords with you Terry, but I can never change. My way has been my life and as a pensioner now, know it will remain the same.

Mo. 

PS I have several different empty cricket boxes in front of me now, and *yes they are flimsy*. Apart from being flimsy though what about those sharp air holes in so many of them??? Of this, you said in another thread, lets hope i am as the boxs with the puncture wholes are no good take care maureen cya on 15th. Surely we are in fact on the same wave length then Terry whatever the reason, and it seems there are enough to want to rule out the cheap cricket boxes.


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

im not argueing with you anymore maureen as we have mutual friends there is no glass roof at the dome that venue was change couple of years ago now you wont like me for saying this but ive stuck up for you over the last couple of years as ive heard several times from diferant people that you are in league with the nice anti people maybe i was wong because all you are doing is stirring up problems that can be discussed of a forum and issues that our couple of years out of date not commenting on this anymore ,its pointless you will just pick on something else and something else untill the shows are over also you dont have to tell us on every thread how many rescues etc you have made through your life i think most of us have done our fair share of rescues not as many as you but the same as anyone who keeps a specific type of animal its not just the reptiles! sad i know but thats human nature


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

penfold said:


> im not argueing with you anymore maureen as we have mutual friends
> 
> Thats true terry. Fair enough. this should hopefully then be my last post on this thread to you.
> 
> ...


I quote it Terry for the reasons already given. We will have to agree to disagree here.

One last thing, bad points mentioned here have been discussed off line and all to no avail, and seeing as people started back in the early nineties complaining, I believe one could consider that as being very patient.

Mo.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Maureen Collinson said:


> Have you ever tried to get though to the likes of Richard Brooks, Terry????
> 
> My personal experience face to face with Richard was that he chose to ignore my reports of non-feeders/under aged and such. As Richard is the main organiser of the Doncaster IHS show, he is the one with the clout, not the others. Perhaps you could take note, and maybe if you spot the same try Richard yourself as the way it stands at present, it is a *huge* black mark on the hobby, and a total let down for those of you that care and ensure the best for your reptiles.
> 
> ...


In my experience cricket boxes are fine, there are 2 types, the ones in the photo are not good enough and should not be used.

The other type are fine, I have never had any problems or complaints in the years I have used them.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Maureen Collinson said:


> Have you ever tried to get though to the likes of Richard Brooks, Terry????
> 
> My personal experience face to face with Richard was that he chose to ignore my reports of non-feeders/under aged and such. As Richard is the main organiser of the Doncaster IHS show, he is the one with the clout, not the others. Perhaps you could take note, and maybe if you spot the same try Richard yourself as the way it stands at present, it is a *huge* black mark on the hobby, and a total let down for those of you that care and ensure the best for your reptiles.
> 
> ...


Just to add, this is the way I see the " flimsy cricket boxes "
From the second someone buys a reptile, the way that snake / lizard should be treated is not only with respect, but gently.

That is weather in hand, travel, or in a box, if the box gets crushed then maybe the buyer should not have bought or even keep reptiles in the first place. 

Every second of the journey home the animal should be placed in an area where no harm can come to it and as little stress as possible.

If a person lets this happen, then my view is they should be keeping reptiles as they have little understanding of how reptiles should be treated.

This applys to any box the reptile is sold in, thrown around in the boot or back seat of a car, a ban on cricket boxes won't make people care or think more about what they are doing.
And as said already, the antis won't stop at boxes, it will be the travel next, infact already happening.

The antis complain about the size of the boxes, they call them to small "curry takeaway " boxes, they are more interested in this than cricket boxes, but they will always have something, to please them over the box issue would see a ban on most boxes and they would want them in much bigger more stressful boxes. 

As I've said, I've used them for years, never had any come back or problems myself. ( The right ones )


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