# Gravel Cleaning



## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

I dont bother using gravel siphons as it doesn't work for me when dealing with goldfish poop, so my water changes are kind off complicated however it doesnt bother me but it does kill alot of bacteria colonies in the gravel, i used to take out 70% of water and then fully clean the gravel with replacing 30% of new dechlorinated water, the gravel is very clean every weekend, do you think this is a good idea or a waste of beneficial bacteria? (they do colonize in my internal filter and the canister)
i have been told that craps in the gravel and filter isnt toxic after nitrifying and cycling it, does this mean i shouldn't remove those craps kept in gravel but once monthy? 

my gravel is usually a 1'' long pebble so poop would drown into the tank floor (unlike small gravel that acts like sand and not leaving any gaps between them) and so why vaccums make non good jobs with me.

should i just leave crap in the gravel to be colonized by bacteria and clean it once monthly?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

you've got it all wrong...

use a syphon and vacuum the gravel...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

As long as your parameters are ok there should be no problem however much you clean/water change, I'd have thought.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

beneficial bacteria are oxygen loving critters... they don't grow in the gravel where the gunk sits...

on the contrary... the gunk/detritus are often anaerobic situations... where little or no oxygen are present... that invites bad bacteria that enjoy places with no oxygen... and produce nasty things like hydrogen sulfide... swamp gas basically...

one shouldn't let gravel get very dirty and have dead spots... laces where there is no oxygen...

stir that up and the fish will get stressed... nothing like swimming in rotten egg water...

just syphon the gravel now and then...


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

HABU said:


> you've got it all wrong...
> 
> use a syphon and vacuum the gravel...


I used that, vaccums and syphons arent powerful enough to suck crap from the gravel, and i if i can suck it takes 40-50% of the water.

however ammonia and nitrite was always as near as 0

If gravel is no place for beneficial bacteria then i can keep on with the gravel cleaning without a syphon, right? i can also say that gravel would be much more cleaner than with using a syphon, not that there is something wrong with it.
nitrogen cycle would be fine and fish would be happy. i fill 30% with gravel after fully cleaning and dechlorinate it


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

my gravel vac works a treat, even with my biggest goldfishes poops, i dont get why it wouldnt work. i use-

Gravel Cleaner by Pets at Home | Pets at Home

the largest one they do. it works brilliantly,and with how much it pulls from the gravel, even with all the filtration i use, i wouldnt be without it. plus theres no way id kill off any beneficial bacteria unless i had no choice, theres a certain amount growing in there for a reason, it takes a colony of that size to deal with the amount of waste of the stock i have and the food i feed. to reduce it by a large amount at every water change cant be good. 

ammonia and nitrites should be at 0, not near to 0. a cycled tank with a good colony of bacteria will keep ammonia and nitrites at 0. 

any poop etc left festering in the tank is continuing to break down, it needs removing. plus as said, although unlikely in goldfish tanks as they dig around, gases can build in the substrate. 

i see a water change with no gravel vac as the same kind of thing as putting a fresh layer of woodshavings over old filthy stuff in a furry critters cage. the poop and mess is still there, but you cant see it so you can ignore it. the poor animal living in there will certainly know its there though. 

ive not had a gravel vac yet that doesnt shift goldfish poop, even the small ones come close to picking it up.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

abadi said:


> I used that, vaccums and syphons arent powerful enough to suck crap from the gravel, and i if i can suck it takes 40-50% of the water.
> 
> however ammonia and nitrite was always as near as 0
> 
> ...


 
you're doing it wrong... a syphon is powerful and will suck out crap very well without removing much water... jab the gravel... pull the syphon up slowly... black water should be in the bucket without draining the tank...


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

TBH i'd recommend you loose the gravel and get sand my life has never been easier!!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

abadi said:


> I used that, vaccums and syphons arent powerful enough to suck crap from the gravel, and i if i can suck it takes 40-50% of the water.
> 
> however ammonia and nitrite was always as near as 0
> 
> ...


a syphon will suck out the gravel if you let it...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

YouTube - Planted Aquarium Vacuum Demonstration-New

good video...


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

HABU said:


> YouTube - Planted Aquarium Vacuum Demonstration-New
> 
> good video...


 

Good vid mate. But on the other side i now what the op means gravel vacs are great but they are very weake when the tank is on a low stand or on the floor because they work off gravity like if the tanks on a tall aquarium stand it will work a treat but if the tanks on the floor it will be terrible : victory:

So the easy answer get an electric vac you could pick an elec one off ebay for very cheap.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

abadi said:


> I used that, vaccums and syphons arent powerful enough to suck crap from the gravel, and i if i can suck it takes 40-50% of the water.
> 
> however ammonia and nitrite was always as near as 0
> 
> ...


Whats the problem with taking 50% of the water out? i regularly replace 80% of the water in my tanks, WEEKLY, and my fish are in perfect health, :2thumb:


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

I take 50% once a week for my marine and 50% twice for my monsters

:2thumb:


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

The T Lord said:


> Whats the problem with taking 50% of the water out? i regularly replace 80% of the water in my tanks, WEEKLY, and my fish are in perfect health, :2thumb:


 
Theirs nothing rong with large changes but it can shock the fish and sometimes especialy in marine it can mess up your cycle.

and 80% will sertanly mess up your bacteria and cycle


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

HUBU, The OPs gravel isn't small, He's stated they're 1'' pieces (pebbles) surely a vac/syphon wouldn't be as affective? 
I've only ever used very fine gravel so have never had that problem,but I do have some smallish 1-2'' pebbles dotted about in my aquarium that don't get pulled into the syphon "cup".


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> Theirs nothing rong with large changes but it can shock the fish and sometimes especialy in marine it can mess up your cycle.


 Possibly. it's entirely dependent on how good/numerous your colonies of natural bacteria are.



berry1 said:


> and 80% will sertanly mess up your bacteria and cycle


 False. We have already discussed this numerous times, and the natural bacteria are not concentrated in the water column itself.



abadi said:


> I used that, vaccums and syphons arent powerful enough to suck crap from the gravel, and i if i can suck it takes 40-50% of the water.
> 
> however ammonia and nitrite was always as near as 0
> 
> ...


You need either a more powerful vacuum or you are doing something wrong. I have never heard of this problem ever, unless you are indeed keeping your tank on the ground and even then I have done so and the vacuum still worked to an extent. The idea of a siphon is not to clean the gravel ENTIRELY...that will reduce your natural bacteria as they exist in your gravel, filter, decor, etc......the siphon merely removes the waste and dirt and allows trapped nasties that are built up to be released and either sucked up by the hose or filter.


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## The T Lord (Mar 28, 2009)

berry1 said:


> Theirs nothing rong with large changes but it can shock the fish and sometimes especialy in marine it can mess up your cycle.
> 
> and 80% will sertanly mess up your bacteria and cycle


Hasn't messed up anything yet, Nitrite and ammonia= 0, Nitrate is 5 and under usually. has been for a year or so.: victory:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

The T Lord said:


> Hasn't messed up anything yet, Nitrite and ammonia= 0, Nitrate is 5 and under usually. has been for a year or so.: victory:



Don't sweat it, Dude....I do 50% every week and if there's an extra-accumulation of grime, I'll go 70-80%. You're cool man, especially if u keep Cichlids and large predatory fish, large water changes are recommended. As long as you have good count on natural bacteria elsewhere as I mentioned....filter, decor, gravel, etc, you have nothing to worry about.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i too usually do 50% as a minimum, sometimes up to as much as 80% in my goldfish tank, my fish are thriving and have been for years.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

I thought HABU just mentioned gravel is no place for beneficial bacteria, and i haven't ever tried 50% water changes just so my fish are thriving at 30%, my tank is 2 ft off the ground but is in a 3rd floor of the house.
my gravel is the ones bought for turtles with large sizes to avoid swallowing them.

can anyone recommend any specific vacs that are powerful out there? powerful enough to suck poop out of large sized gravel?


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Have you thought about doing away with the gravel entirely and having a bare bottom? Makes cleaning a hell of a lot easier and something I've recently done myself and don't regret.

You can still have your decor in there but there's no substrate to trap the waste.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

_simon_ said:


> Have you thought about doing away with the gravel entirely and having a bare bottom? Makes cleaning a hell of a lot easier and something I've recently done myself and don't regret.
> 
> You can still have your decor in there but there's no substrate to trap the waste.


Thats fine for big predatory fish but if its a "display" tank then it looks a bit :censor:

I agree with what your saying but really gravel syphons work on graviity unless you get a mechanical one which I think are a waste of money.

I keep my fish on playsand and just use a pipe to go over the top of it and pick up all the crap and uneaten food.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

_simon_ said:


> Have you thought about doing away with the gravel entirely and having a bare bottom? Makes cleaning a hell of a lot easier and something I've recently done myself and don't regret.
> 
> You can still have your decor in there but there's no substrate to trap the waste.


I agree with Caribe, if im keeping a monster fish or maybe a messy turtle i sure would not want any gravel there but having a 'goldfish' display tank gravel is the main decor, and without it tank is so UUUGLYY.

P.S i know goldfish are very messy indeed but they are also display fish and they wont look so beautiful with a bare bottom in an aquarium.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

I think white sand looks great at the bottom of tanks. I normally mix it in with normal playsand with a few handfuls of gravel and it gives a nice natural bottom.

Done it for years and I like it alot plus dead easy to clean. The cichlids filter it anyway so its usually clean.

Goldfish are messy as well and dont tend to "sift" as much so I think either dropping the gravel size down and scattering some of the large bits in to break it up a little, or go down the sand route. :2thumb:


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

IDK if sand is safe for goldfish also never seen people using them, and sometimes when searching for food at the substrate they tend to swallow small gravel or sand.

Tropical fish, especially cichlids, pirahnas, and discus do very well in sand but goldfish will just mess it up.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

abadi said:


> IDK if sand is safe for goldfish also never seen people using them, and sometimes when searching for food at the substrate they tend to swallow small gravel or sand.
> 
> Tropical fish, especially cichlids, pirahnas, and discus do very well in sand but goldfish will just mess it up.


You haven't been keeping fish for very long, have you?


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> You haven't been keeping fish for very long, have you?


Nope, if that makes sense :2thumb:


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> You haven't been keeping fish for very long, have you?


:lol2:


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Yeah mate goldfish will be fine on sand.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

caribe said:


> Yeah mate goldfish will be fine on sand.


Good to know, do you use a regular syphon for sand?


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

If you dont want to do a water change while cleaning your substrate then try this one.
The water and dirt is sucked up in the syphon and the water passes through a muslin sack leaving the dirt and waste in the muslin.


Hagen Marina Battery Powered Gravel Cleaner : Cleaning Accessories


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

abadi said:


> I agree with Caribe, if im keeping a monster fish or maybe a messy turtle i sure would not want any gravel there but having a 'goldfish' display tank gravel is the main decor, and without it tank is so UUUGLYY.
> 
> P.S i know goldfish are very messy indeed but they are also display fish and they wont look so beautiful with a bare bottom in an aquarium.





abadi said:


> IDK if sand is safe for goldfish also never seen people using them, and sometimes when searching for food at the substrate they tend to swallow small gravel or sand.
> 
> Tropical fish, especially cichlids, pirahnas, and discus do very well in sand but goldfish will just mess it up.





abadi said:


> Good to know, do you use a regular syphon for sand?


 
Mmm! my computer had some virus problems so i havent been on today it scanned for 20 hours and found 152 serious issues :gasp:.

Any way to answer some questions.

I also agree large south and central american cichlids, large oddballs or generaly large fish do much better with bare bottom tanks. 

So realy technicaly its much easyer to do bare bottom for any common goldfish or large goldys like comets. We realy all need to think of the fish and we all should have the fishes best interest in mind not just thinking of your personal decor ( THINK OF THE FISH) If you aint capable of providing huge graval vacs very often then dont use gravel for goldys.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but gold fish grow large like large cichlids and many of other larger fish so if you wouldnt use gravel for a oscar why use it for a goldfish (yes im perfectly aware that it looks 1m times better).


Yes goldys go on a gravel search for food but tbh they never nusualy swallow gravel as they have a kind of back plate in their mouth. 

Like a filter to stop them swallowing the gravel but they have been nown to get gravel stuck in their mouths that alot of people confuse with swallowing the gravel.

All in all sand is better for goldfish because the particles are so, so much smaller so they couldnt get the sand particles stuck in their mouths like they can do with gravel.

Yes you can use a regular vac for sand or just a pipe to siphon the water if you like to be cheap.

Yes the electric vacs a sooper idea but the batterys need replacing on a every gravel vac basis. (It can get alittle expensive.)


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## markn (Jul 29, 2010)

berry1 said:


> Mmm! my computer had some virus problems so i havent been on today it scanned for 20 hours and found 152 serious issues :gasp:.
> 
> Any way to answer some questions.
> 
> ...


I use good quality recharable batteries and they cost the same as about 4 packs of regular batteries and have been recharged hundreds of times.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> Mmm! my computer had some virus problems so i havent been on today it scanned for 20 hours and found 152 serious issues :gasp:.
> 
> Any way to answer some questions.
> 
> ...


*Bare bottom makes it alot hella easier but some people may choose to work very hard just for the gravel, if im using gravel this doesn't mean im just thinking about the decor, yet i never said im not capable, saying ''they havent done a good job for me'' doesnt mean im not capable.*


*Because its my choice.. Goldfish are as large as oscars but arent as aggressive, and besides if anyone would wanna use gravel for an oscar, they can and i've seen that.*

*This doesn't sound harsh it just sounds misunderstood.*


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