# Royal Python Advanced Genetics



## Freehoustie (Oct 22, 2008)

OK, i know how genetics works but i dont know how to work out what genetics each morph has. For example -

Bumblebee's genetics = N,S,P,SP
Normals = N,N
Albino's = a,a

this is where it gets me tho. what are the genetics of an Albino Spider
- i know its Hom-albino so there are no normal genetics
can anyone help me out or point me in the right direction.

thanks john


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

*genetics*

spider het albino: N S a Sa
albino spider: a Sa


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I must admit I don't "get" the genetic codes you lot are listing up there.

A bumblebee is *Pp S** (One copy of codominant pastel, one copy of "not-pastel", at least one copy of dominant Spider).

An albino is *aa* (two copies of recessive albino) but it could be expressed as *aa pp ss* (Two copies of recessive albino, two copies of not-pastel and two copies of not-spider)

An albino spider would be *aa S** (two copies of recessive albino, at least one of Spider)

An albino bumblebee would be *aa Pp S**
An albino killerbee would be *aa PP S**

I would never, ever, EVER use "*N*" to express normal because there is a corresponding "normal-not-morph" gene on every gene pair, and remember to always express the genes as pairs, not single letters.


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## Freehoustie (Oct 22, 2008)

Hey, thanks for that.. i did learn something new there. I didnt know that when theres Pp it means one gene there and one not so thanks.
The genetic codes above are for using on a genetic Punnet square

 l N l S l P l SP   l N l S l P l SP 
N l l l l  = N l NN l NS l NP l SP 
N l l l l  N l NN l NS l NP l SP 

so 25% NN = Wild Type
25% NS = Spider
25% NP = Pastel
25% SP = Spider Pastel (bumblebee)

So how do i convert your genetics into a sequence that fits a punnet square?
An albino bumblebee would be *aa Pp S* - Your example*

ill give it ago please comment if im right or wrong

 l a l aP l aS l aSP 
N l a l aP l aS l aSP 
N l a l aP l aS l aSP 
so 25% Normal 100% het Albino 
25% Spider 100% het Albino
25% Pastel 100% het Albino
25% Bumblebee 100% het Albino

how far off was i??


john


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## Freehoustie (Oct 22, 2008)

Hey, thanks for that.. i did learn something new there. I didnt know that when theres Pp it means one gene there and one not so thanks.
The genetic codes above are for using on a genetic Punnet square

...l N l S l P l SP 
N l....l....l....l....
N l....l....l....l.... 

...l N l S l P l SP 
N l NN l NS l NP l SP 
N l NN l NS l NP l SP 


so 25% NN = Wild Type
25% NS = Spider
25% NP = Pastel
25% SP = Spider Pastel (bumblebee)

So how do i convert your genetics into a sequence that fits a punnet square?
An albino bumblebee would be *aa Pp S* - Your example*

ill give it ago please comment if im right or wrong

...l a l aP l aS l aSP 
N l a l aP l aS l aSP 
N l a l aP l aS l aSP 

so 25% Normal 100% het Albino 
25% Spider 100% het Albino
25% Pastel 100% het Albino
25% Bumblebee 100% het Albino

how far off was i??


john


sorry 1st one didnt look right


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Random thing I know the symbol doesnt matter if you know what the symbol is but Normal or Wildtype is not NN its AA thats why albino is aa and a het albino is Aa.
Just me being picky it works the same for most animal genetics you start with AA meaning normal then expand out into other letters.


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

As Ssthisto already mentioned.....

Your notation is wrong and this makes it difficult to answer your question.

There is no such thing as a NN gene!

Different genes occupy different loci.

For example, albino locus you can have:

AA - both normal
Aa - one normal, one reccesive albino
aA - one recesive albino, one normal
aa - both recessive albino and the only combo which would give visual albino.

Unless you use the correct notation, you cannot reliably use a punnett square and people are going to struggle to answer your quwestions.


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## NaturalSelecta! (Apr 13, 2008)

Yup capital letter typically means dominant whilst lower case is the recessive form of that gene (n.b. if you want to get technical you can call the different copies if a gene in one animal "alleles") i.e albinism is a recessive trait so you need homozygous (a pair of ) the recessive albino gene = aa. If you want to express a snake's genetics as being heterozygous for albinism then its Aa. A completely normal snake has the genotype AA. 
The letter "A" in this case stands for albinism but if we were coming from the other direction and where interested in the gene's proper function, i.e. the production of melanin then we might call it "M" for dominant (normal) or "m" for recessive (albino). For breeders it's much easier to stick with "A" as though.

The reason we don't use N to show theres a "normal" (or wildetype) allele anywhere is because all of the gene pairs which can produce a morph will also have a "normal" alternative. This avoids us listing a non-albino, non-recessive-morph-y, non-recessive-morph-x snake as NN,NN,NN as all those N's become meaningless. Instead you show it as AA,YY,XX. This tells you that it is homozygous for all of the dominant "alleles" and so must be "normal" in the way it looks (This is called it's phenotype whilst the list of genes are called its genotype). Hope that wasn't too confusing.
Using the AX example above a punnet square of a two completely heterozygous snakes would look like:


Aa,Xx (mum)
AX Ax aX ax 

AX| AAXX AAXx AaXX AaXx

Ax| AAxX AAxx AaXx Aaxx
Aa,Xx,  
(Dad) aX| aAXX aAxX aaXX aaXx

ax| aAxX aAxx aaxX aaxx


I must admit, i'm a bit rusty on this genetics stuff, does anyone know the correct way of expressing codominant genotypes? i.e. a heterozygous spider-wildetype? Is S* the proper way as * could be any allele?

Sorry the post is a bit long:blush:


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## NaturalSelecta! (Apr 13, 2008)

That square was poo, hope this is better

Aa,Xx (mum) crossed with Aa,Xx (Dad)

........AX ...Ax ....aX ....ax 
AX| AAXX AAXx AaXX AaXx

Ax| AAxX AAxx AaXx Aaxx

aX| aAXX aAxX aaXX aaXx

ax| aAxX aAxx aaxX aaxx


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

NaturalSelecta! said:


> I must admit, i'm a bit rusty on this genetics stuff, does anyone know the correct way of expressing codominant genotypes? i.e. a heterozygous spider-wildetype? Is S* the proper way as * could be any allele?


Actually, *S** would mean "At least one copy of dominant Spider, but _unknown_ whether the animal is heterozygous or homozygous". And Spider is not codominant - it appears to be dominant to wildtype - which is why it would be unknown until breeding proved it out as het or homozygous.

Generally speaking I would express a _known_ heterozygous spider as *Ss* and a known homozygous as *SS* - but unless you know the parentage of the animal (i.e. you know that the Spider you've got only had one visual spider parent therefore it can ONLY be a heterozygous spider) or your breeding trials have shown that the animal is carrying recessive wildtype I'd use the "gene plus wildcard asterisk" denotation.

As for codominants like Pastel, I suppose the really and truly accurate way would be more like *P+/Pa* (one copy of *Pa* pastel and one copy of *P+* normal wildtype) since pastel isn't recessive to or dominant to wildtype.


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## NaturalSelecta! (Apr 13, 2008)

Cool, thanks Ssthisto: victory: Afraid I showed my ignorance to which morphs were codominant and dominant a bit thinking spiders were c/d. The OH would not be impressed with that slip up!:whip:

I'm on my way to pick up my wildtype (normal, not w/c) male royal in about an hour! 

Excited!!:2thumb:


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