# Spiderxspider



## fastnfurious (Dec 15, 2009)

what would this breeding produce oh almost forgot i mean spider royals :lol2:


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

[1C]Spider X [1C]Spider = .

25%Normal.
50%[1C]Spider.
25%[2C]Spider.
=======
[2C]Spider X [1C]Spider = .

50%[1C]Spider.
50%[2C]Spider.
=======
[2C]Spider X [2C]Spider = .

100%[2C]Spider.


----------



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Their is no "super" spider ......but in reality you could just get a bunch of train wrecks. Its not considered "The Done Thing" to put a double dose of the spider gene into a snake as they can have such a severe neurological head wobble with just ONE gene let alone two. Spiders that exhibit the more severe head wobble can spiral and corkscrew terribly. But spiders do tend to have good feeding responses regardless of the neuro issues.


----------



## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

so super spider is not poss


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I always thought spider x spider is a fatal gene the same as woma x woma?


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

kingball said:


> so super spider is not poss


no, spider is dominant so there is no super, same as pinstripe


----------



## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

I cant remember if it was Spider x Spider or something else but think it was that which is potentially fatal due to the mix of bad genes.
Hopefully someone else can expand a little


----------



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

kingball said:


> so super spider is not poss


nope. 



markhill said:


> I always thought spider x spider is a fatal gene the same as woma x woma?


not as far as i know. I know of one person that "APPARENTLY" put two spiders together and just got a load of shockingly bad spiraling twitchers that preffered to be on their backs than their bellys. Same person that still believes that there is a super spider, much like the hidden gene woma and persists in trying to hit it without success.


----------



## Bexie (Dec 20, 2007)

Letm e throw you some facts. resutls from spider x spider are limited, BUT over the last 2 years i have followed 2 clutches quite closely, first clutch was 7 eggs, 5 went bad and 2 hatched, both spiders. send year, 5 eggs and 5 spiders, normal lookin, no crazy spiralling, normal hatchlings that appear to be normal spiders, doesnt mean that they are normal spiders, jsut that they appear to be, id be willing to bet that one of them could be a super spider that looks like a normal spider.

BHB have a male "pinstripe" from a pinstripe x pinstripe clutch, looks normal, but when bred with 9 female normals in 1 year produced 100% pinstripes, conincidence maybe? good odds? i dont think so, that thing has to be a super form.


----------



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Bexie said:


> Letm e throw you some facts. resutls from spider x spider are limited, BUT over the last 2 years i have followed 2 clutches quite closely, first clutch was 7 eggs, 5 went bad and 2 hatched, both spiders. send year, 5 eggs and 5 spiders, normal lookin, no crazy spiralling, normal hatchlings that appear to be normal spiders, doesnt mean that they are normal spiders, jsut that they appear to be, id be willing to bet that one of them could be a super spider that looks like a normal spider.
> 
> BHB have a male "pinstripe" from a pinstripe x pinstripe clutch, looks normal, but when bred with 9 female normals in 1 year produced 100% pinstripes, conincidence maybe? good odds? i dont think so, that thing has to be a super form.


very interesting indeed. I DO think that an awful lot is unkown about these two genes. Maybe its down to the quality of the stock that is bred.......i guess time will tell. But i know when people say that spider x spider is 100% fatal that its a load of tosh.


----------



## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes, homozygous Pinstripe has been produced, but I do not believe a homozygous Spider has been. As above, I would say its the same as Woma x Woma, lethal.


----------



## Crispy_Bacon (Sep 24, 2009)

I asked a similar question recently and I was informed by Alan1 that the super spider gene is lethal and the same goes for super woma but I’m sure he will be along soon to give you some info anyway...

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/genetics/442274-understanding-royal-genetics.html


----------



## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Blackecho said:


> Yes, homozygous Pinstripe has been produced, but I do not believe a homozygous Spider has been. As above, I would say its the same as Woma x Woma, lethal.


Following what the US breeders have done/tried I'd agree that a homozygous Spider has not yet been produced/proved.


----------



## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

fantapants said:


> But i know when people say that spider x spider is 100% fatal that its a load of tosh.


thats slightly misleading...

you can indeed pair spider x spider and get a viable clutch of eggs, of which some of the hatched offspring will definately be spiders
however... you will also get a 'dead in the egg' spider, THAT will be the homozygous one


----------



## C.Bruno (Oct 8, 2008)

fastnfurious said:


> what would this breeding produce oh almost forgot i mean spider royals :lol2:


25% Normal 75% Spider


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

If spider is a lethal mutant gene, then it would be codominant to the normal version of the gene.

spider X spider -->
1/4 dead, with two copies of the spider gene (spider//spider)
2/4 spider, living, with a spider gene paired with a normal gene (spider//normal)
1/4 normal, living, with two copies of the normal gene (normal//normal)

Of the living animals, 2/3 (66%) would be spiders and 1/3 (33%) would be normals.

If spider is a sublethal mutant gene, then spider X spider -->
1/4 spider (spider//spider), many dead, others perhaps sterile or inferior enough that nobody tries to breed from them.
2/4 spider (spider//normal)
1/4 normal (normal//normal)

If spider is a mutant gene that is dominant to the normal gene, then gazz's post covers all the possible spider X spider breedings.

Testing which of these possible outcomes is closest to observed fact would require getting around 20 spiders from spider X spider matings and mating them to normals. Any of these spider X normal matings that produced normal babies would have a parent spider that had the spider//normal genotype.


----------



## ern79 (Jul 26, 2007)

i dont like the term super spider or super pin stripe, these are 2 copy homozygous dominant, super should only be used for c0-dominant traits where the 2 coipy form is visibly different.


----------



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Just thought i would bump this up, i know a few people have put spider x spider together this season. be good to hear about experiences?


----------



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

fantapants said:


> Just thought i would bump this up, i know a few people have put spider x spider together this season. be good to hear about experiences?


double bump!

Is there any more news on homozygous spider (so called 'super spider' :whistling2: )


----------

