# Isopod care and information



## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

I received a copy of "Isopods in captivity" by orin mcmonigle and I must say this book has loads of great information and is a good book to have for any phib keeper intrested in woods The book has the following chapters 


1. Relatives, morphology and names
2. Biology
3. Clean up crews
4. Isopods as feeders
5. Culturing Isopods
6. Unnatural selection & captive stocks


There is reference to dart and fish keepers in this book also has cool pics of unusual woods that are available and info on various species


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> I received a copy of "Isopods in captivity" by orin mcmonigle and I must say this book has loads of great information and is a good book to have for any phib keeper intrested in woods The book has the following chapters
> 
> 
> 1. Relatives, morphology and names
> ...


That sounds *really* interesting! :2thumb: Any more details- price, publisher, supplier? Maybe even ISBN?


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> That sounds *really* interesting! :2thumb: Any more details- price, publisher, supplier? Maybe even ISBN?


yeah mate sure, I bought it form NHBS for £8.99 url below 

Isopods in Captivity: Terrarium Clean-up Crews - 9780980240160: NHBS: Orin McMonigle

ISBN is that the barcode??

if so 978098024016051400

its not huge book but 43 pages of good info, explains how to care and cultivate woods and also a list of species at the end with explains any individual needs they have even has methods on how to catch some wilds ones :2thumb:

it has some things in the book that would cause a debate on how we currently keep ours 

for example, I spray one side of the tub and not the other, and also provided good ventilation

the book states little or no ventilation is required for micro and dwarfs and only really needs a few holes for bigger woods, also says having one moist area can cause issues if the woods cant get the wet area quickly as they can dry out and die in hours 

I have now set up a few cultures to test the new stated methods... also give good info on what foods can trigger breeding, for example leaf litter and algae signal then to breed and if kept on wood and cardboard only would seem to hinder the breeding process


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> yeah mate sure, I bought it form NHBS for £8.99 url below
> 
> Isopods in Captivity: Terrarium Clean-up Crews - 9780980240160: NHBS: Orin McMonigle
> 
> ...


I deffo will want to get a copy! :2thumb: I wonder if the side-misting 'problem' only apllies to really big cultures- I use ice-cream tub sizes- I'd better buy it and read it to find out, though. : victory:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)




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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> I deffo will want to get a copy! :2thumb: I wonder if the side-misting 'problem' only apllies to really big cultures- I use ice-cream tub sizes- I'd better buy it and read it to find out, though. : victory:


Nah don't be daft,:Na_Na_Na_Na: Ron I have one that is say 40X30cm(one of those wham tubs) it's rocking. The dry end just doesn't want to be bone dry though,they won't go there if it is. Having a humidity grad works well,but the dry end still wants to be accessible to them. Ha ha, see what ya learn by doing it,on some scale. Ron when you finally take up the long standing offer of a visit,I guess you'll understand what the pics and words don't show, i do like me woodlices:mf_dribble:

Stu


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> image


Damn you are clever with this stuff joe:notworthy: once again brilliance,I'd feel inadequate if I didn't have me frogs to talk to and all those iso for them to munch:Na_Na_Na_Na:
cheers for the smile bro:no1:
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Nah don't be daft,:Na_Na_Na_Na: Ron I have one that is say 40X30cm(one of those wham tubs) it's rocking. The dry end just doesn't want to be bone dry though,they won't go there if it is. Having a humidity grad works well,but the dry end still wants to be accessible to them. Ha ha, see what ya learn by doing it,on some scale. Ron when you finally take up the long standing offer of a visit,I guess you'll understand what the pics and words don't show, i do like me woodlices:mf_dribble:
> 
> Stu


Heh, I was partly joking, the method I inherited from you works fine, so far- but as we both know, there is always more to learn... :Na_Na_Na_Na:

I'm definitely going to buy a copy.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i'm getting a nice bit of condensation, rains down on me iso's atm but keeping a close eye on them. must say the oranje woodlice are the bravest of all and they dont half leg it when i pull up a bit of carboard

as for learning....


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Heh, I was partly joking, the method I inherited from you works fine, so far- but as we both know, there is always more to learn... :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> I'm definitely going to buy a copy.


Essentially what Dane has pulled from the book is almost correct Ron.look I've somehow cobbled up this method from others,there really is no credit here,that J cloth does allow air exchange,but it naturally restricts airflow,hence high humidity and not seeing the problem mentioned. I wouldn't agree with little to NO airflow though,with the numbers I know to be possible,I just know they would suffocate,hmm as always by making mistakes I've proved that to myself:blush: 
With a proper banging culture and the densities of number I know to be possible no airflow is somewhere I would never ever go. Ha ha how rare is it for me to be sure about something.

But fair play, there is ALWAYS something to be learned,just let those iso have some air,tis all,:2thumb:

Stu


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> Essentially what Dane has pulled from the book is almost correct Ron.look I've somehow cobbled up this method from others,there really is no credit here,that J cloth does allow air exchange,but it naturally restricts airflow,hence high humidity and not seeing the problem mentioned. I wouldn't agree with little to NO airflow though,with the numbers I know to be possible,I just know they would suffocate,hmm as always by making mistakes I've proved that to myself:blush:
> With a proper banging culture and the densities of number I know to be possible no airflow is somewhere I would never ever go. Ha ha how rare is it for me to be sure about something.
> 
> But fair play, there is ALWAYS something to be learned,just let those iso have some air,tis all,:2thumb:
> ...


I think that's the key mate, I don't think the book explains that if you have a small ice cream tub ram packed of woods you need some air circulation

I always have some holes or J cloth in all mine, however I have placed some in a slightly larger tub (not to large they cant find each other with only an inch of substrate (again the book states over an inch is a waste.. ron may not agree :whistling2 so there Is a go od amount of air

im not a full fan of the non dry area as again its worked well for me and never found any trapped and dried out..... how the book did say was if for example the tub is on a shelf and you have a dry area it will get really dry (if that makes sense) I will type it out word for word tomorrow

im not going to start to change what I do but I am always keen on how I can try improve the prolificacy (if that's the correct word) and see how I can maximise their breeding after all my frogs need food 

I think there is such a lack of documentation on this kind of thing which is a shame and as stu says we all seem to follow others and what has worked from them, then find things like this and see if we can improve 

great book though and for £9 well worth it


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah, I'm a fan of ventilation too. One of the reasons I want to get this though, is the species information, and whatever else there might be in there that I don't know.

EDIT: One thing I forgot too mention earlier is related to the 'passed on' info Stu was referring to- although I've seen sheets recommending plain cardboard or cardboard and coco fibre, on his advice, I've always included nuked leafmould and dead leaves- makes sense to me, and it seems to work, judging by the population I've got (in both small tropical species). So there is something I can relate to in the book already.


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yeah, I'm a fan of ventilation too. One of the reasons I want to get this though, is the species information, and whatever else there might be in there that I don't know.
> 
> EDIT: One thing I forgot too mention earlier is related to the 'passed on' info Stu was referring too- *although I've seen sheets recommending plain cardboard or cardboard and coco fibre, on his advice, I've always included nuked leafmould and dead leaves*- makes sense to me, and it seems to work, judging by the population I've got (in both small tropical species). So there is something I can relate to in the book already.


yes me as well mate as im sure many folks would do (I hope), what I didn't understand is that these leaves trigger the breeding process which I found interesting, as they don't use light they use this to signal the diff seasons 

there is some cool pics and good info on particular species, one quote I did like was "these can be kept in the fridge at blah blah... they may not eat move or reproduce but can survive.... don't know why you would want to keep them in your fridge" ha ha comedy genius 

also gave me a good tip on how to collect our native woods..... make a hole in a spud and place it in a good location they will go In there as its moist and food tap the spud each morning into a tub ....


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Dane ,I'm not knocking the book.Your attitude like Ron's is spot on:2thumb:,there is always something we don't know,always more to learn. Getting knowledge from multiple sources gives both options and choices as to how we do what we do. We should all always be questing and testing the boundaries,it makes us better as both keepers ha and people.I hope I didn't come over as bolshy,it wasn't my intention,ha you guys can't see the smile on me boatrace,when I'm posting.

These woodlice are a cracking feeder,they are slow to build to numbers where one can tap god knows how many in to the frogs,having them in profusion is such an asset I believe to us small frog keepers(and anyone with a live planted set up for that matter). This is why I've spent so much time pushing what we have almost stumbled on. It's not the only method,by any means, I just realise the options it gives,when one has loads. Being able to feed alot of frogs just iso,when I choose is great,something different,plus as I described recently they are my back up plan when it all goes pear shaped and me springtails and flies have crashed. They take less effort than any other feeder,I have cultures dated 2011 still chuntering away. That in it'self is a bit special for a mono culture.

Ron the leaflitter does for them the book gives us a second opinion on that:2thumb:,The bigger picture I guess is it is an edible substrate!! It gives us options if ever their cultures become infested with grain mites(which seem to be our most often encountered mite,as one can simply stop feeding any grain based products and the woodlice keep breeding.

A cracking feeder for sure,even I'm told capable, of getting large oophaga kids going,in a viv that has nemerteans,wonderful really that a humble woodlouce can be such an asset:no1:

Oh Dane as you'll see this and to save me a PM got your stripy buggers mate:2thumb: are you coming to BAKS?

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Here's a question for you Stu; you've mentioned (and I've taken on board and implemented) that the little fast woods seem to do better slightly dryer, and with a higher proportion of leaves and rotted wood in their diet. What about the big orange ones? Anything special about their conditions? If I see them about at a show or whatever, I'm quite keen to give them a go, although as I mentioned before, I suspect that they are probably big enough to be prey for most of my frogs, so I'm not sure how likely they are to survive in my tanks for any length of time.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> Here's a question for you Stu; you've mentioned (and I've taken on board and implemented) that the little fast woods seem to do better slightly dryer, and with a higher proportion of leaves and rotted wood in their diet. *What about the big orange ones? Anything special about their conditions? If I see them about at a show or whatever, I'm quite keen to give them a go, although as I mentioned before, I suspect that they are probably big enough to be prey for most of my frogs, so I'm not sure how likely they are to survive in my tanks for any length of time*.


they are great pets tho Ron. mine are the more active to be honest and seem rather fast and as soon as that cardboard is lifted they are digging down


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Meefloaf said:


> they are great pets tho Ron. mine are the more active to be honest and seem rather fast and as soon as that cardboard is lifted they are digging down


Meefloaf, Do you have a supply of these Orange ones?
If so can you PM me details and prices.
I have several types of woodlice and have the European ones breeding in at least 2 cages.
The others (American and Panama) don't seem to do as well.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Here's a question for you Stu; you've mentioned (and I've taken on board and implemented) that the little fast woods seem to do better slightly dryer, and with a higher proportion of leaves and rotted wood in their diet. What about the big orange ones? Anything special about their conditions? If I see them about at a show or whatever, I'm quite keen to give them a go, although as I mentioned before, I suspect that they are probably big enough to be prey for most of my frogs, so I'm not sure how likely they are to survive in my tanks for any length of time.


Ha ha no Ron fast buggers slightly wetter:blush: probably my bad mate not yours communication issue on MY side to blame. GO drier Ron much more so than the other two. All this is gleaned by having the humidity grad across the tub and then observing where which species "hang " in the greatest numbers. By looking out for multiples of each species,one can deduce what conditions each species SEEM to prefer,I almost have a control ,in the fact that I utilise the exact same tub and vent for all. EG,one will never find GO in the wet end the opposite for fast grey,plus one will never find the fast G's at the dry end.
Just very basic simple observations,ha ha pretty much what i do mate ,ponder the simple stuff in detail, adjust ones methods to what the animals do,don't matter if it's a bird a frog or a woodlice:lol2:

Snakebreeder,it's my fault Joe has gone gooey over these:blush:. I've got a few folks started recently so can't help at this time,but once i'm back up to numbers a few months i'll try and remember you,if not give me a shout please.
I forget stuff:lol2:
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> *Ha ha no Ron fast buggers slightly wetter:blush: probably my bad mate not yours communication issue on MY side to blame.* GO drier Ron much more so than the other two. All this is gleaned by having the humidity grad across the tub and then observing where which species "hang " in the greatest numbers. By looking out for multiples of each species,one can deduce what conditions each species SEEM to prefer,I almost have a control ,in the fact that I utilise the exact same tub and vent for all. EG,one will never find GO in the wet end the opposite for fast grey,plus one will never find the fast G's at the dry end.
> Just very basic simple observations,ha ha pretty much what i do mate ,ponder the simple stuff in detail, adjust ones methods to what the animals do,don't matter if it's a bird a frog or a woodlice:lol2:
> Snakebreeder,it's my fault Joe has gone gooey over these:blush:. I've got a few folks started recently so can't help at this time,but once i'm back up to numbers a few months i'll try and remember you,if not give me a shout please.
> I forget stuff:lol2:
> ...


Lol- we get there in the end! Anyway, neither of my cultures is actually 'wet', so I seem to have got away with it! :lol2: So, for the orange ones, much drier? I'll bear that in mind, if I get any. How about temps? I've definitely noticed that both of the diddy species do better warm.


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## aberreef (Aug 10, 2010)

I keep all my dwarfs in unventilated tubs. They've just had an upgrade to 3 litre sandwich boxes. I keep my natives in the same way, no humidity gradient since the water spreads throughout the tubs pretty evenly.

My more exotic species are kept in under bed storage boxes (smallest size) with a few holes drilled in the sides, covered with a little viv mesh. These stay much drier than the sealed tubs. The woodlice seem to love Elder wood too 

I open all my cultures most days to refresh their air


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> Dane ,I'm not knocking the book.Your attitude like Ron's is spot on:2thumb:,there is always something we don't know,always more to learn. Getting knowledge from multiple sources gives both options and choices as to how we do what we do. We should all always be questing and testing the boundaries,it makes us better as both keepers ha and people.I hope I didn't come over as bolshy,it wasn't my intention,ha you guys can't see the smile on me boatrace,when I'm posting.
> 
> These woodlice are a cracking feeder,they are slow to build to numbers where one can tap god knows how many in to the frogs,having them in profusion is such an asset I believe to us small frog keepers(and anyone with a live planted set up for that matter). This is why I've spent so much time pushing what we have almost stumbled on. It's not the only method,by any means, I just realise the options it gives,when one has loads. Being able to feed alot of frogs just iso,when I choose is great,something different,plus as I described recently they are my back up plan when it all goes pear shaped and me springtails and flies have crashed. They take less effort than any other feeder,I have cultures dated 2011 still chuntering away. That in it'self is a bit special for a mono culture.
> 
> ...


I know ya not knocking the book fella, relax I did not think for one minute you was been " bolshy". 

perfect yes I will be coming to BAKS now.... :2thumb: cheers mate 

its like FF cultures everyone keeps them slightly different with the same outcome we all have diff ways of doing things that's why I love this phib area, in other areas people are not up "grey areas" or other ways.... if you don't do it their way your "wrong"

and even when people don't agree its no issue 

I love it


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

we need Glenn to pop up with his springtail method


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> we need Glenn to pop up with his springtail method


defo I don't think I have heard (or read) this before


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> they are great pets tho Ron. mine are the more active to be honest and seem rather fast and as soon as that cardboard is lifted they are digging down


mate if you think these are fast you wait until you see porcellionides pruinosus these are a grey wood similar size (10mm) to the orange and often called "Cuban" these are very quick, they have really cool antennae lond with little white band on them


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

In conversation with stu he mentioned using j cloth as the ventilation filter. On a yank site they mentioned tyvek, so I ordered that about 2 months ago, it is basically a fabric that air can pass through easily, but it filters out chemicals, and biological nasties. It has some interesting properties (as far as white fabric can be) I was wondering if this would be useable on my isos and springs cultures, and maybe others would be interested in using it. I forgot to ask this to stu. 

You can buy a xxl suit for a reasonable price, which is plenty of material for a lot of cultures :lol2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ordered the book.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> In conversation with stu he mentioned using j cloth as the ventilation filter. On a yank site they mentioned tyvek, so I ordered that about 2 months ago, it is basically a fabric that air can pass through easily, but it filters out chemicals, and biological nasties. It has some interesting properties (as far as white fabric can be) I was wondering if this would be useable on my isos and springs cultures, and maybe others would be interested in using it. I forgot to ask this to stu.
> 
> You can buy a xxl suit for a reasonable price, which is plenty of material for a lot of cultures :lol2:


Ha I'm still learning to Callum,don't know half of it yet bro,sorry slow I miss stuff. I've not heard of tyvek,so would be able to answer you anyway:lol2: I can tell you the yanks use some 3micron filters see here

.3 Micron filters - Why, how, and where - Dendroboard

I am really thinking about these for my springtail cultures,had a few hairy moments of late as I keep them sealed in an effort to prevent mites and I have nearly clobbered 3 recently. Doubtless my own stupid fault,through over feeding huge numbers.Our mistakes are as important as our successes mate. I guess the important thing in any vent is the hole size Callum,especially for springtail cultures,it wants to prevent acess by mites.I'm not bothered so much with iso the cheepo J cloth serves me well,combine it with edible subs and mites seem to be controlable,the one thing I would add is some species such as GO will munch the cloth,so those get some FF mesh behind the cloth to prevent this,

Stu


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

towards the end of that thread is the discussion on tyvek. i am calz on there. 

I couldnt find .3 filter discs at a reasonable price, so i bought this suit. you need some sharp scissors to cut it. 

i haven't put any vents on my spring tail culture, i have used tyvek on the tropical whites culture. they seem to be doing okay so far, but 1 week isnt enough time to show proof of concept of course.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> towards the end of that thread is the discussion on tyvek. i am calz on there.
> 
> I couldnt find .3 filter discs at a reasonable price, so i bought this suit. you need some sharp scissors to cut it.
> 
> i haven't put any vents on my spring tail culture, i have used tyvek on the tropical whites culture. they seem to be doing okay so far, but 1 week isnt enough time to show proof of concept of course.


Funny no I hadn't read that one,I was searching for a different thread,but found that first and it had the info I wanted to pass on,but I didn't finish reading before posting,so missed the tyvek. Nice one kiddo,I may well be grabbing some myself:2thumb:
thanks Callum

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Oh. Stu, we all know how bolshy you are: rant, rant, rant- that's what you do! :lol2::lol2:

I think we can safely assume that no-one, *ever*, feels you 'get at' them; you kindly pass on the things that you've learned, but I for one have never felt judged by you in the slightest.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

So Ron, got the book yet?? I'm looking at getting it.. Where did you buy it from?? 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

vukic said:


> So Ron, got the book yet?? I'm looking at getting it.. Where did you buy it from??
> 
> Tiger
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


Not arrived yet- if you look on the first page, you'll see the link. Ordering seems pretty straight-forward, even with a debit card, since I don't have paypal. They give a dispatch date- mine won't have been sent yet.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Not arrived yet- if you look on the first page, you'll see the link. Ordering seems pretty straight-forward, even with a debit card, since I don't have paypal. They give a dispatch date- mine won't have been sent yet.


They do PayPal do they?? Always weary buying from.new sites.. Lol. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

The book(let) *finally* arrived today- they dispatched it this week, as they said they would- no clue why, though, since I ordered it straight after I got paid. At first glance, it looks interesting, in spite of a dedication to God on the first page...
I'll give it a proper read and feedback later.


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## SublimeSparo (May 1, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> The book(let) finally arrived today- they dispatched it this week, as they said they would- no clue why, though, since I ordered it straight after I got paid. At first glance, it looks interesting, *in spite of a dedication to God on the first page...*
> I'll give it a proper read and feedback later.


despite being an atheist myself and knowing what you mean, you'd be surprised how many great scientists have been devoutly religious


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SublimeSparo said:


> despite being an atheist myself and knowing what you mean, you'd be surprised how many great scientists have been devoutly religious


I honestly wouldn't. It just seemed a bit odd in this context. Anyway, on with the reading...


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## SublimeSparo (May 1, 2013)

fair play lol but everyone seems to praise and thank the lord for everything 
so it doesn't really surprise me to be fair,
ps if you were to accidentally fall onto a scanner:whistling2:
and then completely unintentionally email me some of the aforementioned accidental scans about the dwarf grey and tropical white woodlice that'd be awesome:lol2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SublimeSparo said:


> fair play lol but everyone seems to praise and thank the lord for everything
> so it doesn't really surprise me to be fair,
> ps if you were to accidentally fall onto a scanner:whistling2:
> and then completely unintentionally email me some of the aforementioned accidental scans about the dwarf grey and tropical white woodlice that'd be awesome:lol2:


I think God might be a bit unhappy with me if I broke copyright! :gasp:


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## SublimeSparo (May 1, 2013)

Ron Magpie said:


> I think God might be a bit unhappy with me if I broke copyright! :gasp:


damn worth a shot, I've been practising my dodging of lightning bolts and I thought I was getting quite good at it:devil:


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm gonna try n order it next week... If I remember who I am.. Lol. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

So far, learning lots about their taxonomy and general biology that I didn't know...


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

It's a strange little book, in lots of ways, but I'm learning some interesting stuff; for example there are deliberately-bred and propagated morphs of some species- who knew? Plus there is a virus or group of viruses called 'iridovirus', which slows down reproduction and eventually kills the individual, but it is tolerated or even encouraged by culturalists because it gives various species an attractive blue colour! :gasp: Then there is our Little White Friend (Trichorhina), which turns out to be parthenogenic, and can be a bit of a pest if it gets into cultures of other species; although each individual reproduces fairly slowly, *every* individual can produce young, so in the long run it can take over. I love learning new stuff! :2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

may have to get this come payday


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> It's a strange little book, in lots of ways, but I'm learning some interesting stuff; for example there are deliberately-bred and propagated morphs of some species- who knew? Plus there is a virus or group of viruses called 'iridovirus', which slows down reproduction and eventually kills the individual, but it is tolerated or even encouraged by culturalists because it gives various species an attractive blue colour! :gasp: Then there is our Little White Friend (Trichorhina), which turns out to be parthenogenic, and can be a bit of a pest if it gets into cultures of other species; although each individual reproduces fairly slowly, *every* individual can produce young, so in the long run it can take over. I love learning new stuff! :2thumb:


Hey mate,thanks for the words earlier,only just spotted.

Ron bit about the iridovirus,is slightly unnerving,I'm almost certain ranavirus is in that group,we might well best avoid those individuals. ha the book is spot on about DW,they can move as tiny babies to other cultures and they will out compete,other species. Certainly,both GO and the fast greys are vunerable to this. I'm reliably informed that they will predate young of other species,which is possibly part of this process. 
Thanks for the "update"

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Hey mate,thanks for the words earlier,only just spotted.
> 
> Ron bit about the iridovirus,is slightly unnerving,I'm almost certain ranavirus is in that group,we might well best avoid those individuals. ha the book is spot on about DW,they can move as tiny babies to other cultures and they will out compete,other species. Certainly,both GO and the fast greys are vunerable to this. I'm reliably informed that they will predate young of other species,which is possibly part of this process.
> Thanks for the "update"
> ...


Stu, I've mentioned this before, but I would *love* to have the equipment to do a proper study of the 'hybrid ecology' of mine and other vivs- as you know, I generally use 'live' leafmould as part of the soil mix, therefore importing oodles of bugs, including European woodlice (which I add more of anyway, as a food source), sprintails etc- *then* I add the tropicals on top! How this all balances out, in terms of which species do well/prey on each other/out-compete each other would be fascinating to analyse. Temperatures play a part, in that, for example native earthworms tend to die off at viv temps, so I deliberately add compost worms, which do fine; size also comes into play- my frogs generally finish off the spiders, centipedes, small snails and other similarly-sized inverts pretty quickly. But native woodlice that escape being eaten seem to do well, especially in the slightly dryer vivs. It would be really fun to see on an ecological basis how the whole thing comes together! :mf_dribble:

EDIT: While I remember, I don't think that the Iridovirus has any connection to Ranovirus, beyond also being a virus.


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Among the genera included in this family are _Iridovirus_, _Chloriridovirus_, _Lymphocystivirus_,* Ranavirus,* and _Megalocytivirus_.*

iridovirus (virus group) -- Encyclopedia Britannica


*


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Among the genera included in this family are _Iridovirus_, _Chloriridovirus_, _Lymphocystivirus_,* Ranavirus,* and _Megalocytivirus_.*
> 
> iridovirus (virus group) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> ...


Very interesting! Stu is right to be cautious, then. Having said that, I'm not sure I'd be interested in a culture deliberately infected with a virus that will eventually kill them, anyway- as I said, the book is somewhat odd, in places.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Very interesting! Stu is right to be cautious, then. Having said that, I'm not sure I'd be interested in a culture deliberately infected with a virus that will eventually kill them, anyway- as I said, the book is somewhat odd, in places.


Ha Ron this will make you smile,I wasn't completely sure because of my weakness with letters: I see idirivirus...not iridivirus. So I couldn't be sure if I had the right group,or if there was another group,of viruses. But,yeah why would we want to culture something that is not going to perpetuate itself:bash:.
I suppose if you are into iso for their own glory,then one is predestined to be slightly odd,mind no one would ever say such things about some air head whom keeps phibs would they? and spends a lot of time playing with bugs:whistling2::lol2:

Glenn thanks for the clarification,without that it would almost be impossible for me to be 100% sure,:blush::lol2:.

thanks guys

Stu


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Stu, I've mentioned this before, but I would *love* to have the equipment to do a proper study of the 'hybrid ecology' of mine and other vivs- as you know, I generally use 'live' leafmould as part of the soil mix, therefore importing oodles of bugs, including European woodlice (which I add more of anyway, as a food source), sprintails etc- *then* I add the tropicals on top! How this all balances out, in terms of which species do well/prey on each other/out-compete each other would be fascinating to analyse. Temperatures play a part, in that, for example native earthworms tend to die off at viv temps, so I deliberately add compost worms, which do fine; size also comes into play- my frogs generally finish off the spiders, centipedes, small snails and other similarly-sized inverts pretty quickly. But native woodlice that escape being eaten seem to do well, especially in the slightly dryer vivs. It would be really fun to see on an ecological basis how the whole thing comes together! :mf_dribble:
> 
> EDIT: While I remember, I don't think that the Iridovirus has any connection to Ranovirus, beyond also being a virus.


Ha ha me too mate

Ron it's incredibly difficult for me personally,to know a "right path" ,with which to stock a viv. I really want to have that diverse ecosystem...as close to nature as I can get. But I'm getting ever more cautious about what I put in a viv. It is my belief that our amphibians should get low level challenges,from parasites,or their immune system would be compromised.Lets face it having parasites is their natural state. But damn I want to steer clear of some things that are messing with those wild ecosystems like RV and Bd. 

As to the viv and how things play out,well I suppose we create niches for the frogs and therefore we do the same for the inverts. Your notes on how the native iso do better in the drier vivs is exactly what I would expect,I don't think it is the heat that is their enemy,it's the humidity. We have parameters we work to ,to fulfill the needs of the primary occupant of one of our vivs,ie the phib ,everything else we put in their,is either able to tolerate those conditions,or perish. But conditions can vary through the year dry and wet seasons can be created,this makes the dynamic even more difficult to assimilate. Dammit this is one for some boffins to get their bonces(heads Glenn) around,but they won't mate. So here we are trying to work through it ourselves look hard and ponder is all we have. Ha ha what makes it even more fun is we all have different vivs even for one species we all do things slightly different.
My head is starting to hurt,I'm going so get some just hatched luec tads into some water,'ere one keeps wriggling if i say would you like Ron to be your dad...best get to grips with the ff mate:Na_Na_Na_Na:

:whistling2:

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Ha ha me too mate
> 
> Ron it's incredibly difficult for me personally,to know a "right path" ,with which to stock a viv. I really want to have that diverse ecosystem...as close to nature as I can get. But I'm getting ever more cautious about what I put in a viv. It is my belief that our amphibians should get low level challenges,from parasites,or their immune system would be compromised.Lets face it having parasites is their natural state. But damn I want to steer clear of some things that are messing with those wild ecosystems like RV and Bd.
> 
> ...


Sorry mate, sneaky as you may be, I still havent fallen for the dart/ff sell yet... :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Sorry mate, sneaky as you may be, I still havent fallen for the dart/ff sell yet... :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Said in my best Gollum voice....sneakin....sneakin me? ahh my precious you haven't seen my tankses raised leuc in persons yet:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Sorry Ron that is a really low blow,kinda around the ankle really. Mate that little guy is just so special,he has to go to someone special. Last night I popped up to do some chores quick like. Little fella bounded over and struck at the door,"Ok dude I'll give ya a few springs" open door,put hand in front of little guy ,he strikes my hand a couple of times to let me know he's starving,:flrt: so I had to give him sommit.It's completely bonkers Ron,we really try to get our frogs as used to us as possible,some turn away some do the opposite. This one has been left to his own devices apart from a helping hand to get him in water and he thinks we are his best mates,I'd give up on ya Ron ,but I'm way too stubborn...hmm you knew that didn't ya:lol2:

Oh Shaz will walk you through the ff:welcome:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:
> 
> image


Hmm and we got you before you got out of short trousers ,well ok nearly we did:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Nice Joe,keep them coming buddy each time you do this i get a crack from it:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i think Ron would enjoy these guys, as for fruities, they aint so bad


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i think Ron would enjoy these guys, as for fruities, they aint so bad


There isn't a think Joe,I know he would enjoy them,I've just got to get the guy here and let Shaz skool him on the spawn of satan and I'll show him a special kid then he is stuck,but getting him to buy a train ticket is hard bro:bash: I've been grinding him down for years mate, with you on board as well, there is hope. Maybe we can let the Canuck loose as well,naturally after he's been fed:gasp: i'm not sure that's fare,but needs must hey mate:whistling2: He has to give in sometime:lol2:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i was gonna say, he may have more of an iron will than myself lol if we can lead him to water, then Adam can use his QVC skills


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i was gonna say, he may have more of an iron will than myself lol if we can lead him to water, then Adam can use his QVC skills


Cool Adam's great with these things:notworthy:, I already know I can count on him!! Do you think Ron's ears are getting warm yet?:no1: I have gotta say I felt a bit like I was in clash if the titans when I mentioned unleashing the canuck,i'm not sure whether that counts as ethical frogging:gasp:

Hey ho onwards and upwards

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

you mean the fact glenn will have him renting next doors to use for dart frogs ?:lol2::mf_dribble:

UNLEASH THE CANUCK !!!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Said in my best Gollum voice....sneakin....sneakin me? ahh my precious you haven't seen my tankses raised leuc in persons yet:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Sorry Ron that is a really low blow,kinda around the ankle really. Mate that little guy is just so special,he has to go to someone special. Last night I popped up to do some chores quick like. Little fella bounded over and struck at the door,"Ok dude I'll give ya a few springs" open door,put hand in front of little guy ,he strikes my hand a couple of times to let me know he's starving,:flrt: so I had to give him sommit.It's completely bonkers Ron,we really try to get our frogs as used to us as possible,some turn away some do the opposite. This one has been left to his own devices apart from a helping hand to get him in water and he thinks we are his best mates,I'd give up on ya Ron ,but I'm way too stubborn...hmm you knew that didn't ya:lol2:
> 
> ...





Meefloaf said:


> :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:
> 
> image





soundstounite said:


> Cool Adam's great with these things:notworthy:, I already know I can count on him!! Do you think Ron's ears are getting warm yet?:no1: I have gotta say I felt a bit like I was in clash if the titans when I mentioned unleashing the canuck,i'm not sure whether that counts as ethical frogging:gasp:
> 
> Hey ho onwards and upwards
> 
> Stu



:lol2::lol2::lol2:

Good try, guys! :2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

after bugetts, go on


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Thought this was cool.

Different Isopod Species and Iridovirus


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Cheers kiddo good read:2thumb:

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Thought this was cool.
> 
> Different Isopod Species and Iridovirus





soundstounite said:


> Cheers kiddo good read:2thumb:
> 
> Stu


Interesting indeed.


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

frogfreak said:


> Thought this was cool.
> 
> Different Isopod Species and Iridovirus


this was a good read mate


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Interesting indeed.


hey ron glad you got the book, what do think overall? its not a huge read but interesting aint it????

found this today on amazon so ordered to see what if I can get any other info on culturing methods on other feeders..... I like ma books :2thumb: 

Amazon.co.uk: Buying Choices: Breeding Food Animals: Live Food for Vivarium Animals


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> hey ron glad you got the book, what do think overall? its not a huge read but interesting aint it????
> 
> found this today on amazon so ordered to see what if I can get any other info on culturing methods on other feeders..... I like ma books :2thumb:
> 
> Amazon.co.uk: Buying Choices: Breeding Food Animals: Live Food for Vivarium Animals


Interesting, for sure- and (the selling point, for me!) I learned stuff I didn't know. :2thumb:

As to the new book, I'd want to see a review or contents breakdown, before I spent that kind of money. I have a few on general live-feeding (_Feeding Insect-eating Lizards_ by David J Zoffer is the first one I just pulled of off the shelf); they can be a bit of a muchness.


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Interesting, for sure- and (the selling point, for me!) I learned stuff I didn't know. :2thumb:
> 
> As to the new book, I'd want to see a review or contents breakdown, before I spent that kind of money. I have a few on general live-feeding (_Feeding Insect-eating Lizards_ by David J Zoffer is the first one I just pulled of off the shelf); they can be a bit of a muchness.


Well I have been ready about grain weevils and waxworms and this book was mentioned a few times so thought why not..... I spend a fair bit on books but seem to like the thought of having stuff my kids can read when they get into the hobby Also hoping it will give me some more bug ideas to culture


Ill let you know how it is mate


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> Well I have been ready about grain weevils and waxworms and this book was mentioned a few times so thought why not..... I spend a fair bit on books but seem to like the thought of having stuff my kids can read when they get into the hobby Also hoping it will give me some more bug ideas to culture
> 
> 
> Ill let you know how it is mate


Don't get me wrong- there is something about a real book that no amount of online info can make up for. I have old books that I treasure, even though their taxonomy (for example) is long out of date, because they have a very personal touch and real charm- I've Mentioned Werner von Filek's _Frogs in the Aquarium_ loads of times, for example; the classification of Pipids has been redone several times since publication, but it remains one of my favorite frog books *ever*, and gives me real pleasure to read, as well as having excellent information on day-to-day care. My copy is totally falling apart, but I'd never chuck it!


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> hey ron glad you got the book, what do think overall? its not a huge read but interesting aint it????
> 
> found this today on amazon so ordered to see what if I can get any other info on culturing methods on other feeders..... I like ma books :2thumb:
> 
> Amazon.co.uk: Buying Choices: Breeding Food Animals: Live Food for Vivarium Animals


That book has been on my wish list for an age... And it's still not come down in price.. :-( can't afford that much for one book.. :-(

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Another book I'd love a copy of is Doris Cochran's _Living Amphibians of the World_ which was first published in 1961 :gasp:- I first read it in the mid-70s. It's a beautiful book, and was definitely a major influence on me.


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## SublimeSparo (May 1, 2013)

just thought I'd mention I tried the potato with holes in method to move some dwarf woodlice and a few springtails from a planted up tank to some trays, seems to work quite well


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SublimeSparo said:


> just thought I'd mention I tried the potato with holes in method to move some dwarf woodlice and a few springtails from a planted up tank to some trays, seems to work quite well


Does anybody else remember those 'household hints' books that used to be really popular? We should have one for 'Phibs: _'Handy Household Tips for Amphibian Keepers: Money and Time-saving Hints for Harmonious Homes' :lol2:_


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Does anybody else remember those 'household hints' books that used to be really popular? We should have one for 'Phibs: _'Handy Household Tips for Amphibian Keepers: Money and Time-saving Hints for Harmonious Homes' :lol2:_


Where can I buy it!!!!!! Lol.. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## SublimeSparo (May 1, 2013)

vukic said:


> Where can I buy it!!!!!! Lol..


I guess we could sift through the forums and pick them out print them and bind them...
and then yours for the sum of: £25.00 :whistling2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

SublimeSparo said:


> I guess we could sift through the forums and pick them out print them and bind them...
> and then yours for the sum of: £25.00 :whistling2:


Dude ,we keep phibs,we simply must not go for the cheep option or under sell ourselves:gasp::lol2:.

Ron sorted hand over the £50:Na_Na_Na_Na:I guess you won't pay having already read it:lol2:. 
Mate my little bible was something written by a lady.Joy Spokanaska(spelling of surname totally incorrect),I can't remember much of it TBF,but I know it had a huge influence on what I did as a wayward kid,plus my animals did ok,so she must have made some sense,now who was it said nostalgia gone too far.:whistling2:

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

My mother had this fab little book- tips on everything from how to get stains out of clothes to making jam to 'simple' home ironmongery... :lol2:


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Another book I'd love a copy of is Doris Cochran's _Living Amphibians of the World_ which was first published in 1961 :gasp:- I first read it in the mid-70s. It's a beautiful book, and was definitely a major influence on me.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Amph...r=8-1&keywords=Living+Amphibians+of+the+World


I had a browse through amazon looking for insect/bug books, mainly for keeping natives (I've got a serious fondness of the Devils Coach Horse beetle) but also for some hints (in english!!!) on my recent purchases; Tanzanian Pill Bugs, but they were mainly aimed at kids 

Found Keeping Spiders, Insects and Other Land Invertebrates in Captivity Pet Care Guides: Amazon.co.uk: Frances Murphy, Denise Finney: Books which seemed interesting.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

REDDEV1L said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Amph...r=8-1&keywords=Living+Amphibians+of+the+World
> 
> 
> I had a browse through amazon looking for insect/bug books, mainly for keeping natives (I've got a serious fondness of the Devils Coach Horse beetle) but also for some hints (in english!!!) on my recent purchases; Tanzanian Pill Bugs, but they were mainly aimed at kids
> ...


Does Amazon take debit cards? I don't have paypal or online banking.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i used to use mine before i set up online banking, should be fine


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

ooooh Ron

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pillbugs-Ot...UTF8&qid=1382467062&sr=1-8&keywords=dart+frog


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