# Fish Fail...



## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

My brother-in-law who looks after my fish very well while I'm on holiday and has seen first hand how I take care of my tanks came back from the pet shop today with a *17L* tank (no decor, just blue gravel), no dechlorinator, no heater and yep, three fish - a Redtail Black Shark, a Bala Shark and a Rainbowfish. To say I was speechless (and that's no joke for me!) is beyond an understatement...:bash:


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Surprising that the shop didn't ask a few questions and suggest what he needed :/


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## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

I cant believe they let him take any fish home. Let alone sensative fish like sharks. I wont say about how much space sharks need!!


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

bloody hell I wouldnt even put my killifish in there! If I had that mindset I could have gotten them 10 times over by now, but I want them to have a decent sized tank!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

:gasp: i cant believe that anyone would do that, my god, come people can be so thick! sorry but your BIL needs telling and quickly.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Brat said:


> Surprising that the shop didn't ask a few questions and suggest what he needed


They did but I guess they have the usual LFS policy of selling the customer whatever they want...:whip:



Mujician said:


> I cant believe they let him take any fish home. Let alone sensative fish like sharks. I wont say about how much space sharks need!!





goldie1212 said:


> i cant believe that anyone would do that, my god, come people can be so thick! sorry but your BIL needs telling and quickly.


I did and he just cheerfully replied: "They're nice though, aren't they?!" :roll:

I did dechlorinate the water though albeit several hours after the fact only because my husband didn't think he had any and, nope he didn't. At the very least, I've persuaded him to buy a 25W heater tomorrow, his own dechlorinator and a cave for the poor RTBS...

On the one hand, I'm tempted to just let him learn the hard way but my sense of compassion for the fish means, I'll probably test the water for him and show him how to do water changes during the inevitable ammonia and nitrite spikes. I may even give him some mature filter media...when I've stopped grumbling about his rash purchase! My poor hubby is getting a right earful atm...:whistling2:


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Trillian said:


> They did but I guess they have the usual LFS policy of selling the customer whatever they want...:whip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd take the fish off him, take them back to the shop and ban him from buying anymore 'till he's researched properly.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Lee2211 said:


> I'd take the fish off him, take them back to the shop and ban him from buying anymore 'till he's researched properly.


i would do this, or print out a quick write up on each species and show him pics of adults. its cruelty pure and simple, i wouldnt stand for it from anyone i know.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> I'd take the fish off him, take them back to the shop and ban him from buying anymore 'till he's researched properly.





goldie1212 said:


> i would do this, or print out a quick write up on each species and show him pics of adults. its cruelty pure and simple, i wouldnt stand for it from anyone i know.


He won't hear of it and, being my husband's brother, it makes it a little awkward. I really don't want to start a family argument over it so I'm just going to do as best I can for the fish atm. 

If it comes down to it, I can only take the Rainbowfish since I already have a shoal of them. I wouldn't add the RTBS to my plec tank as I imagine all hell would break loose and I don't like Balas. Even though the LFS guy told him they'd need a 4-6 foot tank, he just figured he'd take them and upgrade later. The usual thing everyone says...:roll:

I told him that when they die (note: not if, when!): to get a single male Siamese Fighter Fish but he said he'd prefer a goldfish! Oh very dear...:devil:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Trillian said:


> He won't hear of it and, being my husband's brother, it makes it a little awkward. I really don't want to start a family argument over it so I'm just going to do as best I can for the fish atm.
> 
> If it comes down to it, I can only take the Rainbowfish since I already have a shoal of them. I wouldn't add the RTBS to my plec tank as I imagine all hell would break loose and I don't like Balas. Even though the LFS guy told him they'd need a 4-6 foot tank, he just figured he'd take them and upgrade later. The usual thing everyone says...:roll:
> 
> I told him that when they die (note: not if, when!): to get a single male Siamese Fighter Fish but he said he'd prefer a goldfish! Oh very dear...:devil:



:censor: i dont really understand why you have posted this, if you cant/wont do anything to really help the fish. could you maybe point him in the direction of this forum? im sure we could all tell him where hes going drastically wrong!

the rtbs needs a 4ft tank or more.
the rainbow should be in a school in a 3ft tank or more.
the bala shark should be in a school in a 6ft tank or more.
any amount of time these fish spend in his tank they will be caused suffering and irreversible damage.
not even starting on the whole cycling the tank thing, if hes too dense to realise what hes doing is cruel i would think its over his head working out the ammonia and toxins will build to deadly levels in a matter of hours in this 'tank' (using the term loosely, these rubbish pots of water should be banned!)

i just hope the fish pass quickly and dont suffer too long in his hands. if they do die, please please do not let him buy a goldfish, just make absolutely sure he gets a betta or something small which will be ok in this tank.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> i dont really understand why you have posted this, if you cant/wont do anything to really help the fish.


I posted it to highlight the idiocy of what he did and what the LFS allowed him to do. The decision of whether or not he returns the fish is out of my hands as I've already stressed to him the size of tank the species require but he's not interested in returning them and, like I said, I'm not going to start a feud over it. If it was my own brother, it would be a different story though as I could browbeat him into taking them back...:lol2:

My plan now is: I'm going to do my best to get the fish through the cycling process by (a) adding mature filter media (b) testing the water and (c) doing water changes. IF the fish survive that (and I'm hoping they do), then I'm going to advise him about suitable longterm requirements. They're absolutely tiny atm (maybe 1-2") and I figure, the novelty will soon wear off and when it does, I'll offer to take them off his hands, keep the Rainbowfish and return the shark species myself. : victory:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ok, but we all know how bad lfs can be. i really feel for the poor fish, i have a friend who has 2 comet goldfish in a tank of about this size, i know its stressful to see, but i do have a go at her every time i see her. she thinks its a good way to teach her 3 yr old son about death :gasp: i have to say i never sacrificed a pets health to show my daughters what death was about. its just wrong. maybe you could have a word with your husband and have him have a go about it.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> ok, but we all know how bad lfs can be. i really feel for the poor fish, i have a friend who has 2 comet goldfish in a tank of about this size, i know its stressful to see, but i do have a go at her every time i see her. she thinks its a good way to teach her 3 yr old son about death i have to say i never sacrificed a pets health to show my daughters what death was about. its just wrong.


That's just awful but I know exactly what you mean. I'm actually babysitting a pair of goldfish for a friend of mine and she was keeping them in a tiny, unfiltered tank. I've managed to persuade her to upgrade to a much larger tank for when she takes them back. For the time being, I've transferred them to a spare filtered 30L tank while I have them. Still not ideal, I know but a hell of a lot better than what she had them in. :hmm:



> maybe you could have a word with your husband and have him have a go about it.


Yep...I think a softly, softly approach might be the way to go. His wife is a pushover so I reckon I could plant the seeds of doubt with her and she might persuade him to take them back. I really do hate this idea that persists..."they're ONLY fish". In fact, when my BIL said that to me earlier, I'll admit to responding a little sharply: "No, they're pets, just like any other and should be treated just as humanely." We'll see if his conscience is tweaked overnight. :whistling2:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

ahhh family situations are difficult, i remember having an awkward "polite argument" with an aunt at a party at her house about her two comets in a bowl  

and i know a lot of lfs aren't the best, but on the other hand you wouldn't believe some of the things staff get asked


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

This makes me so livid!

I had a friend who kept a RTBS, featherfin syno and black ghost knife fish in a 28 litre tank. She wouldn't hear a word about how inhumane this was! I ended up taking the shark as she had the bright idea of adding 6 tiger barbs into the tank and the poor, stressed shark killed them all. She didn't want the "killer" after that. Poor shark died on me two weeks later and she managed to kill most of her other fish by washing the filter media in tap water. 

ARG!

I can't believe how stupid and uncompassionate people can be. How hard is it to do some research? Hopefully if he keeps up with water changes and gets them all through the cycle then they'll grow and he'll see that they need a bigger tank.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Assaye said:


> This makes me so livid!
> 
> I had a friend who kept a RTBS, featherfin syno and black ghost knife fish in a 28 litre tank. She wouldn't hear a word about how inhumane this was! I ended up taking the shark as she had the bright idea of adding 6 tiger barbs into the tank and the poor, stressed shark killed them all. She didn't want the "killer" after that. Poor shark died on me two weeks later and she managed to kill most of her other fish by washing the filter media in tap water.
> 
> ...


heartbraking isnt it. i also took in a rainbow shark from my neighbour a long while back, it was in a 10g hex with 2 angelfish, several neon tetra, tiger barbs, and some guppies (shocking mix) well the barbs killed the guppies, the angels killed the neons, the tigers nipped the angels fins, so she flushed them :censor: and then the shark grew a bit and killed both angels, she was going to flush him and i took it. it went into my 6ft tank, grew some more, and lived around 6 months happily mooching around my tank, it was one of the nicest fish ive owned.


i just found out the day after my daughters broke up from school, that their teacher decided to go and buy 2 fancy goldfish for a 13L starter tank so her kids could see the fish after a visit to the deep. if i only found out 2 days earlier i would have gone and saved them from a short life of stress. i was fed up with my daughters as they tell complete strangers in shops when they are buying goldfish that they need huuuuuuuuuuuuge tanks and big filters :lol2: not bad for 5 and 6 hey, pity they didnt tell their teacher the same thing that they willingly tell others. i will be enquiring as to where they went when they go back in september. 

the way i see it, if someone wouldnt house a rabbit in a hamster cage as its cruel, why house a potentially ft long fish in a tiny ft long tank? some people need their heads testing, and the lfs need a kick up the butt!


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

The double standard does shock me. If someone was keeping their pet cat in a little dog crate with hardly any space to move and no exercise, then we'd be up in arms about calling the RSPCA. It would be a no-brainer that this is cruel. As soon as the equivalent situation comes along with fish, there is hardly anything we can do and many people are not willing to speak out. Heck, the law even supports people who want to do that because there is a total lack of understanding about fish and very low minimum care requirements! There is no authority you can defer to if someone is abusing fish. 

Does my head in.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Assaye said:


> The double standard does shock me. If someone was keeping their pet cat in a little dog crate with hardly any space to move and no exercise, then we'd be up in arms about calling the RSPCA. It would be a no-brainer that this is cruel. As soon as the equivalent situation comes along with fish, there is hardly anything we can do and many people are not willing to speak out. Heck, the law even supports people who want to do that because there is a total lack of understanding about fish and very low minimum care requirements! There is no authority you can defer to if someone is abusing fish.
> 
> Does my head in.


mine too. i guess the more we spread the word about how these beautiful creatures should be kept the better the chances more people will keep them in better conditions. its infuriating how little some people care about their wet pets living conditions.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Its all alright comparing these situations to rabbits/dogs ect. But at the end of the day and even though how heartbreaking it may sound, to a lot of people, they are _only_ fish!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

_jake_ said:


> Its all alright comparing these situations to rabbits/dogs ect. But at the end of the day and even though how heartbreaking it may sound, to a lot of people, they are _only_ fish!


a rabbit is _only _a rabbit, and a dog is _only _a dog. yes to a lot of people this is true and for some awful reason fish are seen as throwaway pets,probably because they are so cheap and show no emotion in their faces and make no sound when hurting or stressed. its word of mouth that is going to change this, so the more of us who spread the word, the better.


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

_jake_ said:


> Its all alright comparing these situations to rabbits/dogs ect. But at the end of the day and even though how heartbreaking it may sound, to a lot of people, they are _only_ fish!


This is my point. So many people see fish as dumb, boring, disposable pets. One step away from a neon pet or nano pet, I guess. It's hard to convince people that they are worth considering and spending money on. 

:devil:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Assaye said:


> I can't believe how stupid and uncompassionate people can be. How hard is it to do some research? Hopefully if he keeps up with water changes and gets them all through the cycle then they'll grow and he'll see that they need a bigger tank.


I wouldn't mind so much but he had a perfect source of correct info just up the road...me! :bash:

I think I may have got the point across to his wife today since the poor rainbowfish died/was killed overnight. I told her that having the two shark species in a 17L tank was akin to putting two puppies in a budgie cage. Just because they fit, doesn't mean they'll thrive. :devil:



_jake_ said:


> Its all alright comparing these situations to rabbits/dogs ect. But at the end of the day and even though how heartbreaking it may sound, to a lot of people, they are _only_ fish!


Bite your tongue, fishy son! :gasp:

This is the attitude that annoys me the most (I know - hope! - you're being facetious, jake ) but IMO despite the fact that you can't "pet" fish the way you can furry or scaly pets, doesnt make them any less valuable. They're lovely little "wet pets", both fascinating and relaxing to watch and I, for one, love the way they all rush to the front of the tank whenever I approach it...:flrt:


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Assaye said:


> This makes me so livid!
> 
> I had a friend who kept a RTBS, featherfin syno and black ghost knife fish in a 28 litre tank. She wouldn't hear a word about how inhumane this was! I ended up taking the shark as she had the bright idea of adding 6 tiger barbs into the tank and the poor, stressed shark killed them all. She didn't want the "killer" after that. Poor shark died on me two weeks later and she managed to kill most of her other fish by washing the filter media in tap water.
> 
> ...


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

I was just saying it how it is, fishy mom!


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Graylord said:


> Assaye said:
> 
> 
> > This makes me so livid!
> ...


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

_jake_ said:


> I was just saying it how it is, fishy mom!


No sweeties for you tomorrow! :devil:



Lee2211 said:


> Yes, you're absolutely right. A fish is _only_ a fish. But it is a living being, that can feel pain and has emotions. To me that's all that matters. It therefor deserves to be looked after and cared for just as much as any other animal or human being.


Well said. Compassion and humanity should be all-inclusive...: victory:


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

Graylord said:


> Assaye said:
> 
> 
> > This makes me so livid!
> ...


Wow, you've got some attitude on you. 

Actually, she was the one who said she was going to "get rid of it" so I said I'd foster it until she decided what she wanted to do or got a new tank. She was the one who turned up at my door with the fish in a bag, I hardly bullied her. She ended up asking me to keep it. 

The shark was stressed. How can you say that a shark you never saw in a tank that was too small wasn't stressed? Yes, they are terriatorial but baby sharks don't normally kill anything, let alone tiger barbs and other fish they are generally considered compatible with. 

I can't believe you are judging me for the shark dying. I suppose you have never had an animal die on you? All your childhood pets still around? Never had a sick animal? If that's the case, you are very lucky but don't come prancing over here telling me that "the high and mighty have fallen". I'm not being high and mighty, I just know that a red tailed black shark doesn't belong in a 28 litre tank!

May as well call anyone with compassion 'arrogant' or anyone who cares for their animals well 'pretentious'. I suppose you glorify in keeping animals badly? If you actually care about animals how about you piss off and stop judging me for doing what was actually by any sane person's standards a good deed. 

I can't ****ing believe you have such a rank attitude. Do you tell everyone that works for the RSPCA or other rescue organisations that they have "failed" whenever an animal they have rescued from a dire situation dies?

I suppose you'd rather I left it there. It would certainly have saved me offending you with my "high and mighty" attitude. I had no idea that basic animal welfare was so offensive to people on here.


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## njp (Mar 4, 2007)

Graylord said:


> So you killed the shark then?
> 
> I agree the tank was small but you took the shark then it died oh how high and mighty can fall .
> 
> ...


Wow, WTF!!

It says in the post the nighbour was going to flush the fish, and all because they had failed miserably to care for it.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Graylord said:


> Assaye said:
> 
> 
> > So you killed the shark then?
> ...


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## SamH (Aug 25, 2007)

Christ children calm down. Your making it sound like a small child has been kidnapped and fed to a large catfish. :whip:


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

SamH said:


> Christ children calm down. Your making it sound like a small child has been kidnapped and fed to a large catfish. :whip:


=/

We're just reacting to animal cruelty. I'm sure you'd be so calm and unbothered if a reptile you cared about was being treated badly?


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

_jake_ said:


> Its all alright comparing these situations to rabbits/dogs ect. But at the end of the day and even though how heartbreaking it may sound, to a lot of people, they are _only_ fish!





SamH said:


> Christ children calm down. Your making it sound like a small child has been kidnapped and fed to a large catfish. :whip:


 ..... :whistling2:


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

SamH said:


> Christ children calm down. Your making it sound like a small child has been kidnapped and fed to a large catfish. :whip:


I'm beggining to wonder why people that don't give a monkeys about fish even bother to look in the fish section. I mean, if you truly believe they are _only _fish and believe as a result of that they don't deserve proper care and love, then why would you bother looking here?
I mean after all it is a section on how to properly look after _only_ fish. 



daftlassieEmma said:


> ..... :whistling2:


?


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

who says you cant pet fish lol my big 12 inch oscar loves to come to the top of the tank for a tickle and probs has more brains than my cats lol


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> I'm beggining to wonder why people that don't give a monkeys about fish even bother to look in the fish section. I mean, if you truly believe they are _only _fish and believe as a result of that they don't deserve proper care and love, then why would you bother looking here?
> I mean after all it is a section on how to properly look after _only_ fish.
> 
> 
> ?


 sorry, just thought his post was a good example of what a lot of people have been saying about fish _only _being fish to many folk


what you just said is bang on


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

adamntitch said:


> who says you cant pet fish lol my big 12 inch oscar loves to come to the top of the tank for a tickle and probs has more brains than my cats lol


Haha, that's so cute. My Black Moors used to suck on my fingers when I fed them XD



daftlassieEmma said:


> sorry, just thought his post was a good example of what a lot of people have been saying about fish _only _being fish to many folk
> 
> 
> what you just said is bang on


 No it's all right, I just didn't know what you mean that's all. Nice to know other people think fish are worth something 
Do you have any fish?


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> No it's all right, I just didn't know what you mean that's all. Nice to know other people think fish are worth something
> Do you have any fish?


 been a keeper for 8 years now


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> been a keeper for 8 years now


That's nice, what fish do you have?


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> That's nice, what fish do you have?


 atm i've just got a pond going (shared with my dad) tropical tank's been empty for a while  kept various things but African preds are my "thing", love my african butterfly fish :flrt:


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> atm i've just got a pond going (shared with my dad) tropical tank's been empty for a while  kept various things but African preds are my "thing", love my african butterfly fish :flrt:


Cool, will you be keeping koi/goldfish or things like sturgeons? 

Just googled african butterfly fish, and wow. They're beautiful! Are they tropical or coldwater?


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> I'm beggining to wonder why people that don't give a monkeys about fish even bother to look in the fish section. I mean, if you truly believe they are _only _fish and believe as a result of that they don't deserve proper care and love, then why would you bother looking here?
> I mean after all it is a section on how to properly look after _only_ fish.
> 
> 
> ?


I'm guessing my post may have something to do with mys reply. I keep my fish 'properly', well to the standards people set. My post was about the majority of the public. Most people just getting a tank to look pretty or go nice with their living room!:gasp:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> Cool, will you be keeping koi/goldfish or things like sturgeons?
> 
> Just googled african butterfly fish, and wow. They're beautiful! Are they tropical or coldwater?


we've got mostly goldfish and a couple of small koi, gonna be upgrading as they grow 

tropical! they are stunning in their own way, my dad always took the p*ss saying they looked dead :lol2: big mouths on em too


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> :censor: i dont really understand why you have posted this, if you cant/wont do anything to really help the fish.


Sad as it is, Tirllians BIL is a grown up, and she can't _make_ him look after them properly. She's told him the facts, what he chooses to do with them is out of her hands. 



Assaye said:


> Wow, you've got some attitude on you.


Don't worry about 'Gaylord'. He's routinely offensive and miserable in all sections of the forum! :lol2:



_jake_ said:


> I'm guessing my post may have something to do with mys reply. I keep my fish 'properly', well to the standards people set. My post was about the majority of the public. Most people just getting a tank to look pretty or go nice with their living room!:gasp:


Don't stress Jake! I knew exactly what you meant. You weren't expressing your own opinion, just pointing out the fact that the majority of fish sold in the UK go to homes where people won't necessarily see them as we would, or have done the research. It's the same with reptiles TBH. The number that die due to lack of care/knowledge/understanding/effort is quite sad.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> Haha, that's so cute. My Black Moors used to suck on my fingers when I fed them


My Angelfish nibbles on my fingers when I'm doing a gravel clean...:flrt:



Lee2211 said:


> Just googled african butterfly fish, and wow. They're beautiful! Are they tropical or coldwater?


Opportunistic predators. Anything that comes too close and will fit in their mouth is fair game...:whistling2: :lol2:



Grond said:


> Sad as it is, *Tirllians* BIL is a grown up, and she can't _make_ him look after them properly. She's told him the facts, what he chooses to do with them is out of her hands.


:hmm:

Well, the fish are still surviving thanks to judicious water changes on my part...: victory:


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## daisyman97 (Jul 12, 2010)

_jake_ said:


> I'm guessing my post may have something to do with mys reply. I keep my fish 'properly', well to the standards people set. My post was about the majority of the public. Most people just getting a tank to look pretty or go nice with their living room!:gasp:


I got a tank for looking pretty, but the best way to do that is to care for them properly and get them in fit condition so they look their prettiest. I wish everyone could "see the light" and realise how much nicer fish are when they are looked after properly and given real love


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Nicely put. : victory:


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

Trillian said:


> My brother-in-law who looks after my fish very well while I'm on holiday and has seen first hand how I take care of my tanks came back from the pet shop today with a *17L* tank (no decor, just blue gravel), no dechlorinator, no heater and yep, three fish - a Redtail Black Shark, a Bala Shark and a Rainbowfish. To say I was speechless (and that's no joke for me!) is beyond an understatement...:bash:


its always the fricken shops! :bash::bash:

ive worked in pets and aquatics for 6 years, and the worst case was this chav woman comes up to me with a plastic goldfish bowl, (which i always told the manager we shouldnt sell) and aid i want three of them nemos, i just laugh at her, but it turns out shes serious, so i spent over an hour talking to her, about setups etc, she left with a tropical starter, set it up came back a week later and took 4 white cloud minnows  im all for the welfare of the animals, thats number one, not making money for the company.


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

Omerov1986 said:


> its always the fricken shops! :bash::bash:
> 
> ive worked in pets and aquatics for 6 years, and the worst case was this chav woman comes up to me with a plastic goldfish bowl, (which i always told the manager we shouldnt sell) and aid i want three of them nemos, i just laugh at her, but it turns out shes serious, so i spent over an hour talking to her, about setups etc, she left with a tropical starter, set it up came back a week later and took 4 white cloud minnows  im all for the welfare of the animals, thats number one, not making money for the company.


When I was working at [email protected] we met a woman who actually had a clown fish in a freshwater bowl. I don't know how that fish survived! Finding Nemo has caused so much fish suffering =(


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

Assaye said:


> When I was working at [email protected] we met a woman who actually had a clown fish in a freshwater bowl. I don't know how that fish survived! Finding Nemo has caused so much fish suffering =(


SPASTICS!! the same a the TMNT craze of the 80's... :bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

Omerov1986 said:


> SPASTICS!! the same a the TMNT craze of the 80's... :bash::bash::bash::bash:


Sad thing is, that story wasn't even the worst one. We had stuff like that happen all the time and don't get me started on the policies we had to work with!


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