# first poisoness snake



## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

hi im looking to get my first poisoness snake wat wud u recomend? 
and wat kinda prices am i lookin at?
any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

obvious question, but do you have a dwa licence, and what sort of experience do you have with venomous. what venomous reptiles have you worked with?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

as already said, it depends what your going for... a western hognose or a mangrove snake has venom but does not require a DWA licence. I'd not recommend getting a venomous snake without a LOT of experience...


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

planning to get a dwa license soon hopefully, i have never worked with venomous b4 which is a worry. wat do u think?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

what non venomous snakes have you kept in the past? before getting your licence spend a fair few months with someone experienced in keeping venomous snakes - you simply cant do it without the experience : victory: take your time, this is definately something worth waiting for and worth doing it right!! lol! will be a few years before im able to get into DWA keeping personally, have an ask about your local area if there is a keeper willing to help you out with some experience.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

honestly mate, you arent ready for a dwa venomous snake. 

in order to be fully competent and safe with truly venomous snakes you need alot of experience not only with other snakes but also with venomous ones. try looking into getting a mentor - there are lots of handling techniques and pieces of equipment you need to know and use.

what snakes have you kept?


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

i have got hognose snakes, boas, common ans rainbow, royals


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

been keeping regulat reps for over 8 years, i wasnt goin to jump into it just wondred wat was best 1st one to buy


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

best thing to buy is something like an aggressive non dwa rear fanged false water cobra. you wont want to get tagged coz they have an ice little venom, and they are incredibly aggressive so you will be able to get good at reactions.

ultimitely what you need to do is find a local dwa keepr and ask him to mentor you. he will be able to teach you handling and bite protocols, will demonstrate handling, and how to use the associated tools. without this most councils will find it hard offering you a licence - because you need that sort of level of experience


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

ok cool, is there anny1 with dwa, near liverpool area?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

sounds like your going about it the right way! Would definately recommend something nasty thats NOT a DWA species and find a mentor, im afraid i dont know of any in the liverpool area but if you have a rumage about through past threads you may find one close to home!

good 'trainee' species may be a FWC (as said by carpy) also a mangrove snake (but be warned, even though these are NOT a DWA species they will not make you feel very well should you get tagged!) or maybe some of the coachwhips can be nasty beggers.. im sure someone else can give you a better list than me lol!

:whistling2:


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

thnx 4 the help , i was thinkin bout a mangrove,


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

they are beautiful snakes, i keep a green catsnake (a member of the mangrove family) and he is (usually..) very friendly... but from what ive heard he is most definately the exception to the rule lol!! 

theres been some keepers on here who have been tagged by a mangrove and had a horrible day, they can be wicked fast and are generally not nice snakes, but there is always that one in a hundred thats not too evil  lol - good snake to get if your considering DWA.

i love them:flrt: - just dont forget safe working practice of DWA keeping (hooks, gloves, etc.. this is where a mentor would be handy!)


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

mangroves are good but make sure you get a captive bred one as captive farmed or wild caught individuals tend to have significant parasite loads which results in a high mortality rate

i would say look at chironius - most aggressive snakes i have ever worked with - trump forest cobra's, fer de lance, and green mamba (though never worked with a black mamba so maybe that will change things) but they are rare as the shit of a constipated rocking horse


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

u think a copperhead wud be a gud first choice dwa?


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

BigBaz said:


> u think a copperhead wud be a gud first choice dwa?


in a year or more down the line when you have experience with such an animal then perhaps - but as with all dwa animals - no until you have experience


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

First off, decide which "branch" of venomous keeping interests you most. The husbandry and handling techniques are different for Arboreal vipers than terrestrial vipers and different again for elapids.

Personally, a good first "hot" would be one of the Asian arboreals. Not too big, species like _Trimeresurus trigonocephalus_ have fairly weak venom (that said, if you are unlucky/stupid enough to get bitten, it'll still f**k your day up big style, but you are unlikely to die), they are visually good looking and reasonably easy to manipulate.

I wouldn't recommend a Gaboon, they are wicked quick when they do strike and are very unpredictable. Copperheads are ok, but bear in mind if the worst happens, you may well lose bits of you due to necrosis.

As said before, talk to other keepers, see their setups and protocols,then decide if you can afford the money and time to do it.

The snakes themselves aren't hugely expensive, but all the ancillary equipment and the room may well run into thousands. Bang go your holidays, cos who will look after your animals now?


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

I’m not sure where this "_Copperhead_" myth came from but it is worrying that beginners along with some venomous keepers think that a Copperhead is just some warm up snake to start off with.

I can think of at least three people who have received bites from a Copperhead, two of them received AV and at least one of them is very experienced.

"Mangrove Snakes and False Water Cobras" hmm - I wish somebody would show me one that acts like a Venomous front fanged snake.

I guess they half act like an Elapid which no beginner in their right mind would keep anyway.

Dave


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

This Copperhead myth seems to have legs.. and that is a bit worrying. True they tend to be a bit mellow.. but to be honest it doesn't really matter if it is the most docile snake in the world that smokes grass and lives in a purple haze.. you get nailed *once*, you need medical treatment.

The States is different from here in regards to the fact that you need to have medical insurance, whereas here we have the State.. but personally I would spend a couple of years with a mentor, and learn the ropes slowly. Enjoy and learn from the point of view of being under someone elses wing, and then when you are ready, go for it.. 

Seems to me that a lot of people are very blase about keeping a hot.. and it is worth remembering this - all it takes is one person to die, and the authorities will be all over us like a rash, and all of a sudden you will need a license to keep a cornsnake.

Find a mentor, learn the ropes, and be a credit to the hobby, with knowledge that you can then pass on to someone else in the future.


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## tommyjacobs (Nov 26, 2008)

very sensible advice m8 wish everyone thought like yourself


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

think the nearest 1s who mite mentor is the place in shropshire


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my copperhead is nuts very aggressive and quick to bite anything, however of the venomous snakes I keep a mangrove would not of prepared me for any of them, I have kept a mangrove as well and keep a few vipers and pitvipers, nothing truely prepares you for the real thing like having one on the end of a hook.


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

thanks for all the idvice i wansnt goin to jump into gettin a hot snake, thats y i started this thread i want to do it properly, i have never been biten by any snake and i dont want the 1st to be a hot snake, im just starting to look into doin it.


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

SiUK said:


> my copperhead is nuts very aggressive and quick to bite anything, however of the venomous snakes I keep a mangrove would not of prepared me for any of them, I have kept a mangrove as well and keep a few vipers and pitvipers, nothing truely prepares you for the real thing like having one on the end of a hook.


The only way my years of experience helped me when it came to dwa snakes was knowing about humidity etc and being able to tell when a snake is ill. The rest of it was useless when it came to front fanged venomous snakes.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

of course no non-DWA animal could possibly prepare you for a DWA species, however it is better to have keeping experience of a mangrove or a coachwhip before moving on to true venomous snakes, than it is to have kept a corn in the past and understand all of the theory, then move onto DWA... 

at the end of the day, nothing can substitute experience so there is no point in telling the OP that a mangrove will be useless when it comes to DWA - all experience is not wasted!


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## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

chondro13 said:


> of course no non-DWA animal could possibly prepare you for a DWA species, however it is better to have keeping experience of a mangrove or a coachwhip before moving on to true venomous snakes, than it is to have kept a corn in the past and understand all of the theory, then move onto DWA...
> 
> at the end of the day, nothing can substitute experience so there is no point in telling the OP that a mangrove will be useless when it comes to DWA - all experience is not wasted!


A mangrove is not much use when it comes to DWA, got one, they are not that fast and there is no way I would even think about going near a hot without tons of training from an expreienced hot keeper. I agree that no rear fanged can prepare people, plus if you have a snake out like a mangrove just so you can dodge bites, it may improve your recactions (not that likely though), however all it really is going to achieve is stressing out the snake, decreasing the already not good chances of getting regular eating if at all going etc. They don't like being handled all that much so why have one to dodge bites its not fair on them.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

paulrimmer69 said:


> think the nearest 1s who mite mentor is the place in shropshire


Shropshire Exotics


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

buy yourself a fiesty snake when that keeps tyring to tag you think of one loaded with venom..buy a radiated rat snake taiwan beauty snake or if ya real brave buy an amethystine python.. and ja know what mate just buy asking what POISONESS SNAKE SHOULD I GET your obviously not ready for one!


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## BigBaz (Jan 12, 2007)

thats a stupid thing to say, these forums r here for people to ask 4 advice. im not jumping in to buy 1 , im just wondereing what people may think wud be a gud 1st hot snake, im goin to spend the next 12 months or so training to keep them and ill decide later if its defo 4 me


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

one important thing that has the potential to stop alot of people that arnt fully into it, is reading about venom what it does to you and looking at pictures of bites, if your not genuine then its enough to put you off, bites are horrendus.


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

BigBaz said:


> hi im looking to get my first poisoness snake wat wud u recomend?
> and wat kinda prices am i lookin at?
> any help will be greatly appreciated.


 I can see this isnt going to be a very civilised thread.....and ive not even read no posts yet!


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

rc10andy said:


> I can see this isnt going to be a very civilised thread.....and ive not even read no posts yet!


 
Well how wrong ive been proved! Not so much as a cross word :2thumb:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

rc10andy said:


> .....and ive not even read no posts yet!


What does that mean?

Could you explain in English?......please!


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

Its not a stupid thing to say at all , If i wanted to keep hots it would be because i was drawn to one srecific species like a gaboon viper or an eyelash viper probably the prettiest snakes on the planet, i wouldnt ask a forum whats the best first venemous snake i wanna keep .. 

Decide what you want then do ya home work .


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

guyz1970 said:


> Its not a stupid thing to say at all , If i wanted to keep hots it would be because i was drawn to one srecific species like a gaboon viper or an eyelash viper probably the prettiest snakes on the planet, i wouldnt ask a forum whats the best first venemous snake i wanna keep ..
> 
> Decide what you want then do ya home work .


I can see your point,there needs to be an interest in keeping the species for reasons other than just because it's venomous.Surely an interest in a species should be the driving force not the fact that it's a hot.However it's understandable someone who hasn't kept before asks those who do what would be a more suitable starter.Elapids for example wouldn't make a good starting point into hot keeping,no?


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> Could you explain in English?......please!


 
sorry. .........and i have not even read any posts yet (better for u shakespeare?)


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

guyz1970 said:


> Its not a stupid thing to say at all , If i wanted to keep hots it would be because i was drawn to one srecific species like a gaboon viper or an eyelash viper probably the prettiest snakes on the planet, i wouldnt ask a forum whats the best first venemous snake i wanna keep ..
> 
> Decide what you want then do ya home work .


That's all well and good, but neither of those two species you mentioned are what could be regarded ad "ideal" first hots. Gabby's are soooo quick when they strike and they can come back over their tail at whatever they strike at, add to that a massive haemotoxic venom load and you have a major problem. Schleg's can be difficult to maintain, can be very feisty and have quite a potent venom.

I think the OP asked quite a relevant question. Some may decide that they absolutely adore elapids, they research them, have all the protocols in place then when they get their first one, they find the stark reality of exactly how quick they are, how they have the uncanny ability to make their head appear from a completely different place than it would be expected and how unsuitable they are for novice keepers. In short, there are no good choices for a first venomous snake, but there are some extremely bad choices for one.

By getting various people's own experiences the OP should be more informed when making the decision for him/herself


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

hey mate you hot keepers are the experts all i was trying to point out is if i wanted a certain species then thats what id go to all that trouble for..just my 2 peneth lol


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

I do agree that one tends to get drawn to one particular group or species, but the point I was trying to make is that some of those groups or species, no matter how much research you do, will very, very quickly find any and all of the gaps in your knowledge and skills and cause you one or more "brown adrenaline" moments.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> Could you explain in English?......please!


It's a double negative Graeme, it means he has read some posts:lol2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> It's a double negative Graeme, it means he has read some posts:lol2:


I just thought it meant he is an uneducated fool!
:bash::bash::bash:


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

stuart heres one for ya.. would keeping a corn snake or a boa prepare me for keeping a bali yellow head? lol


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

:bash::bash:


guyz1970 said:


> stuart heres one for ya.. would keeping a corn snake or a boa prepare me for keeping a bali yellow head? lol


:bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

guyz1970 said:


> buy yourself a fiesty snake when that keeps tyring to tag you think of one loaded with venom..buy a radiated rat snake taiwan beauty snake or if ya real brave buy an amethystine python.. and ja know what mate just buy asking what POISONESS SNAKE SHOULD I GET your obviously not ready for one!


That is completely unnecessary. The chap asked a reasonable question while he is trying to gain as much information from people who are experts -where better to ask than here? Thats like someone who is a brand new to reptile keeping asking 'which is the best starter snake?' - if this person had no previous knowledge but saw a pretty picture of a retic and said 'could i keep a retic as my first snake?' they would be slated and riddiculed! Of course the best question would be 'which is the best starter snake'...

And because he had miss-spelt the word poisonous does not mean to say he is incapable of ever looking after venomous species!! My flatmate is dyslexic and has problem spelling simple words. That does not stop him from having an IQ of 155!! 



stuartdouglas said:


> That's all well and good, but neither of those two species you mentioned are what could be regarded ad "ideal" first hots. Gabby's are soooo quick when they strike and they can come back over their tail at whatever they strike at, add to that a massive haemotoxic venom load and you have a major problem. Schleg's can be difficult to maintain, can be very feisty and have quite a potent venom.
> 
> I think the OP asked quite a relevant question. Some may decide that they absolutely adore elapids, they research them, have all the protocols in place then when they get their first one, they find the stark reality of exactly how quick they are, how they have the uncanny ability to make their head appear from a completely different place than it would be expected and how unsuitable they are for novice keepers. In short, there are no good choices for a first venomous snake, but there are some extremely bad choices for one.
> 
> By getting various people's own experiences the OP should be more informed when making the decision for him/herself



*Very* well said :notworthy:constructive and informative.


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> I just thought it meant he is an uneducated fool!
> :bash::bash::bash:


 I am!


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

guyz1970 said:


> stuart heres one for ya.. would keeping a corn snake or a boa prepare me for keeping a bali yellow head? lol


Why did you ask that? If it's a dig at me, then I'm afraid it was too subtle for me to pick up on, if it's a genuine question then i have to say, I don't know, I'm not a retic' keeper and don't really have any useful advice to offer......................


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

it wasnt a dig nothing meant by it.. what i meant was you could own as many corns bci,s as you like it would be experience but it wouldnt prepare you for keeping a tic. thats what i meant , would owning a false water cobra or a mangrove snake prepare you for owning a more dangerous species thats all i meant.. sorry didnt mean to narc you mate.


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

Personaly i think most hots are gorgeous they just scare the crap out of me . my uncle owned a reptile shop on the old kent road , his collection out back used to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up..huge eastern diamond backs horned vipers and a forset cobra...


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## guyz1970 (Jan 3, 2008)

chondro i meant nothing by the geezers spelling , dont go down that road with me.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

guyz1970 said:


> it wasnt a dig nothing meant by it.. what i meant was you could own as many corns bci,s as you like it would be experience but it wouldnt prepare you for keeping a tic. thats what i meant , would owning a false water cobra or a mangrove snake prepare you for owning a more dangerous species thats all i meant.. sorry didnt mean to narc you mate.


I see where you are coming from but I feel that nothing prepares you for dealing with a venomous species. Its not something that can be taught although it is possible to pick up both good and bad techniques by observing how others approach it!

At the end of the day a feisty colubrid may well be fast and snappy but you will know that if you are nailed its not going to be life threatening........with a fully load DWA species you are in a different ball game.


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## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

yea i agree with alot on here, i think you could have 10 years experience with bci, royal, corns or whatever, and even after years of research you never actually know what its gonna be like having a snake than can get to 20 foot, until you actually own it. I've always said this, yes i agree with doing research to the extent that you know personally you can provide the snake with everything it needs, and your willing to accept the risks and full responsibility if anything happens.

Same with DWA, you could have years experience with every single non-dwa species, and you could have been mentored for years too, but you never know what its like til you have your own dwa species as your sole responsibility. I know for sure if i had a dwa, that no one i know would stand there with me to make sure nothing happened! or to help me if it did! Everyone i know is scared of my burm, who is like a puppy!

i think the OP was right to ask on here, i dont own dwa species but if i was planning to, i also would want to know what the best first one would be too.

: victory:


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## johndavidwoods (Nov 18, 2008)

I think this is always a difficult one. I don't think anybody should ever buy a snake they don't really want, and so to a person totally new to snakes who conceives a passion for green tree pythons or something, I wouldn't like to say 'get a corn snake first' if the species just doesn't interest them.

But how that applies to DWA I have no idea. It isn't something I have any intention of ever getting into, but just supposing I did, I happen to think Gaboons are awesome animals, whereas Copperheads don't really interest me at all. But Gaboons are extremely dangerous and move in totally unexpected ways - would that mean I should get a Copperhead for a couple of years first, and then be stuck with it, resenting it for another 20 years once it has served its purpose?

I don't know what the answer is. And substitute anything you like for Copperhead - I did note earlier that the idea that they are a relative pushover in DWA terms shouldn't be perpetuated.


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## gear21 (Dec 19, 2008)

*gab*



BigBaz said:


> hi im looking to get my first poisoness snake wat wud u recomend?
> and wat kinda prices am i lookin at?
> any help will be greatly appreciated.


hey iv got a few left at the min, and have kept most in the past if u need any help, but id say a gaboon viper bitis gabonica, very placid and nice snakes


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

gear21 said:


> hey iv got a few left at the min, and have kept most in the past if u need any help, but id say a gaboon viper bitis gabonica, very placid and nice snakes


 
What are you keeping at the mo?


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Hello guys,

I may cause a bit of controversy here but I think it is a subject worth considering.
I know spelling can pose a problem for people and I am not immune, that is why I normally compose my posts in “Word” and then copy & paste into the reply box.

When it comes to interacting with people on forums who we do not personally know, we all tend draw conclusions from the way in which a particular person writes their posts.

When I see posts that contain phone text style words such as “U”, “B” or shortened words such as “wat” “wud” or numbers such as “2” or “4” etc. I instinctively think this person is either young, uneducated, lazy or simply does not take the subject seriously....... and therefore why should I bother to spend my time helping someone like that? Truth is of course, the person may be well educated and very bright, you can never really tell. 

If you are going to be asking for help on serious subjects such as keeping venomous snakes, then it is probably worth composing messages with a little more care.

As they say first impressions count.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah they definately do, first impressions mean alot and it doesnt take much effort to type properly, as you say spelling mistakes are part and parcel no one is immune (my punctuation could definately be better) but not writing in text slang doesnt take much effort and people will as you say take your post more seriously.


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