# Help needed culturing fruit flies



## TJR1989 (Jun 28, 2012)

I am getting my first group of dart frogs in just over 1 week and I need to culture some fruit flies for them!

I have searched the Internet and all stuff seems to be American!!!! Can't find an English version/recipe anywhere!

Can somebody please offer some advice. I am totally new to it so knowing how to do it, what I need, how long it takes and all info would be great and very appreciated! 

Many thanks


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*you will*

hi there you going get lots diff ways of doing it 
iam using repashy fruit fly and a old tea bags in a sweet jar with mesh over the top with raffia in the jar pop a few flys in the jar they reproduce .
some people use porridge oats honey and orange juice . 
some people just use porridge oats and water . 
:whistling2: scot


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Youre proberbly better off getting some repashy superfly to start with as this is easy to use. You can then experiment with what suits you better as snowdragon said everybody has different ways. Dont panic though as theres lots os suppliers of fruitflies so you will be able to just buy them until you get it sorted. I would recommend you buy some now though as the larger fly hydei can take a month to establish and the smaller fly melanogaster can take over 2 weeks

cheers
Richie


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

What does the tea bag do,I haven`t heard of that before.?

I have used plain Readybrek for years and found it works well but I have recently changed to the Repashy.I dont think that I get any more flies but the Reashy doesn`t have the terrible rotting smell of all the other mediums that I have used.

To the OP you will need to buy some working mixtures with flies , some micro crickets or other food to feed your frogs immediately.Friutflies will take two or three weeks to culture depending on species and temperatures.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

I just use cheap economy ready brek, cheaper the better. with a little water, add flies and bob's your uncle. Keep it simple if it works. 

Though i hate breading flies i always end up letting them out arghh. 

jay


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

I went down around 1-2 weeks ago too Dartfrog.co.uk to get a fruit fly starter kit, for £10 i got all i needed to set up the fruit flys.. and curently have maggots! also i havent seen one mite in these tubs.. so there good quality i advise you to get the pack from there :2thumb: and you get a guide sheet, easy to follow and make things more easy :2thumb:


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

How to culture fruit flies - YouTube

& I suppose you may need...

How I dust Fruit Flies ready for feeding. - YouTube


I've tried readybrek, with & without potato flakes, yeast, vinegar etc etc and just couldn't manage to get it to work correctly. Haven't tried Repashy tho but my system works fine.


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

i always used this method
Drosophila

but now use repashy superfly
a bit more expensive, but much less chance of bad smells:2thumb:


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## mylesm (May 4, 2011)

i've tried numerous recipies in the past including vinegar .ready brek potato flakes . Cider but every time it would go mouldy or stink . This is the recipe i use now wit great success an minimal smell (slight banana smell which doesn't stink the house down) . Cheap porriage oats some bananas a sprinkle of yeast all of which bought very cheaply in the supermarket . Blend the porriage to a powder . Mash up a banana in a bowl till its a runny texture add some porriage dust mix it up add a sprinkle of yeast mash it all together . Add about half a cup of water an thats it . The finished texture should not be to runny or to dry so if it falls off your fork you used for mashing its to runny add some more dust if it sticks to the fork like glue add more water the finished mix should slowly roll down the fork . I've used pure orange juice instead of water in the past but that makes it smell quite bad so i stick to the water. Make this 24hours before you add any flies as it bubbles up wit the yeast so after 24hours just shake the mix to get rid of the air bubbles if you add the flies before the mix settles then 9outta 10times they die . I guess its from the yeast/lack of oxygen Im not sure why they die off


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

My recipe (which is simple and works well for me) is to mix a box of ready brek (approx 750g I think), same of potato flakes, 1/4 - 1/2 bag of caster sugar and a tablespoon or two of yeast.

Produces plenty of flies, doesn't smell (too) bad and cheap :2thumb:


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## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

I give another vote for Repashy Superfly it's not really that much more expensive as even the smallest pack you can buy lasts about 4 months for me and I make a new culture about every 2 weeks. It doesn't smell bad and is super easy.

I also use Raffia. 

To dust, I do the following. I never get any escapees so I like it better than the tip up and tap and hope for the best method! It's also super quick and simple when you get the hang.

You will need - Your fruit fly culture, a funnel, a small tub with two lids (I use the ones you get sandwich fillers in from tesco) and your supplement. 

Cut a small hole in one of the lids, just large enough for the end of the funnel. Put a small amount of supplement in the small container (just a pinch - with experience you'll learn how much is needed to coat the flies so you don't have lots of excess). Tap your fly culture firmly so all the flies fall to the bottom. Quickly invert over the funnel, which has it's nozzle through the hole in the lid of the supplement container. Shake gently until the required number of flies fall through. Inverse the funnel and culture so it is the right way up again and tap firmly again so flies fall to bottom. Take off funnel and replace lid on fly culture. Swap lid of supplement container for the one with no hole and shake.

You now have supplement coated flies ready to go into the vivarium.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

That's the exact method I use Beanie, except I use the little Smart Price pots and a big brewers funnel.  Mels I never lose a one, hydei 1 or 2 as the swines climb up the side of the pot like olympic sprinters. lol

Media I use Repashy Superfly with a tiny bit of bakers yeast for mels and a home made mix of 7 parts cheapo ready brek to 2 parts potato flakes which I mix up with warm (boiled and allowed to cool) water and then add a tiny bit of bakers yeast. I find the tiny bit of yeast just speeds up production a little bit so I don't have to wait as long. I use the DIY mix for hydei type flies simply because they eat a LOT so need a good deep layer, plus they do absolutely fine with this mix, where mels seem to do slightly better with Superfly.

Ade


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## MARK.D (Oct 18, 2008)

Been using the Alan Cann method for years. Drosophila

I now use Repashy, but I mix it with ready brek and potato flakes. Makes it go further and still get great results.


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## Venatores (Jun 7, 2011)

*fruitflies*

I thought I would through in my tuppence worth :Na_Na_Na_Na: Ready break, orange juice, oats, caster suger, a little apple cider vinegar. Mix well until firm but not sloppy. I use about an inch of ready break in a plastic pint glass that the original flies came in (from UK Frog day last year). Spoonful of oats and a spoonful of sugar.
Then I shove in an empty loo roll for the flies to climb on :gasp:

Stagger the making of the colonies and you're good to go.

To use- 
I have a large white plastic tub from Ikea (from a shelving set)
- open the tub of flies inside the large white tub
- knock off as many as you need. 
- Put lid back on flies 
- bang large white tub so flies all fall to bottom and then tip flies into whatever receptacle you are using (I use an old Bonne Maman jam because the sloping sides ease the knocking out of the flies). 

Or you can knock the flies in individually as they try to climb out of the plastic tub. Use just a pinch of vitamin powder and swirl the flies around in the jar.

You can use the same method for crickets. :whistling2:


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*told ya*

heheh 
its a mine field of info on breeding fruit flys 
has not anybody not noticed that if you leave tea bags out you get lots of small flys lol i bought some flys and sadley they dried out b4 i could use them so i popped some teabag in the pot dont know why dont ask :lol2: then a few days later it was swarming iam guessing the old teabag rehydrates the mixtures so iam now keeping the teabag and i add 1 or 2 to my mixtures and every now and then with a pipette i add a few drops of cold tea this is also keeping them going .i also use repashy superfly its amazing stuff wel worth getting if you have loads mouths to feed .


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

just thought i would update. After feeding last night i must not have put the lid full on one of my cultures. I came back to a room full of bloody flies. Oh how i hate them. 

The electric flie swat was doing well last night

jay


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> just thought i would update. After feeding last night i must not have put the lid full on one of my cultures. I came back to a room full of bloody flies. Oh how i hate them.
> 
> The electric flie swat was doing well last night
> 
> jay


happens to all of us lol
:lol2:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

snowdragon said:


> heheh
> its a mine field of info on breeding fruit flys
> has not anybody not noticed that if you leave tea bags out you get lots of small flys lol i bought some flys and sadley they dried out b4 i could use them so i popped some teabag in the pot dont know why dont ask :lol2: then a few days later it was swarming iam guessing the old teabag rehydrates the mixtures so iam now keeping the teabag and i add 1 or 2 to my mixtures and every now and then with a pipette i add a few drops of cold tea this is also keeping them going .i also use repashy superfly its amazing stuff wel worth getting if you have loads mouths to feed .


Unusual.I haven`t noticed that,I have noticed them around beer bottles and toothbrushes.

It just goes to show that there are lots of ways of culturing them.


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## lizzifrogs (Mar 14, 2011)

Hatchling/micro crickets gut loaded on fish food are nutritionally better than fruit flies-keep a cm cube damp sponge in with your micro crickets to keep them hydrated as they perish quickly without a water source. Larger dendrobates will take size1 crickets aswell. Readily avaliable from all livefood suppliers.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I think that you will open up a can of worms by that statement.
Do you have anything to back this up because I have always wondered about this?


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## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

take a look at this article for nutritional values of livefoods
Caudata Culture Articles - Nutritional Values


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## lizzifrogs (Mar 14, 2011)

Er, yes. It has been studied in science:

Allen ME, Oftedal OT . 1989. Dietary manipulation of the calcium content of feed crickets. J Zoo _Wildl Med_
20(1):26-33. Finke MD. 2002. Complete nutrient composition of commercially raised invertebrates used as food for insectivores. _Zoo Biol _21(3):269-285. Finke MD. 2003. Gut loading to enhance the nutrient content of insects as food for reptiles: A mathematical approach. _Zoo Biol _22(2):147-162. Oonincx DGAB, van der Poel AFB. 2010. Effects of diet on the chemical composition of migratory locusts (Locusta migratoria). _Zoo Biol _28:1-8. Pennino M, Dierenfeld ES, Behler JL. 1991. Retinol, α-tocopherol and proximate nutrient composition of invertebrates used as feed. _International Zoo Yearbook _30(1):143-149. Pessier AP. 2008. Management of disease as a threat to amphibian conservation. _International Zoo_ _Yearbook _42(1):30-39. Richardson C, Popovici J, Bellvert F, Lengagne T. 2009. Conspicuous colouration of the vocal sac of a nocturnal chorusing treefrog: carotenoid-based? _Amphibia-Reptilia _30:576-580.

EAZA (European Association of Zoo's & Aquaria) have just published a study in the nutrition journal on gut loading crickets amphibian prey. I have been doing this now for 2 years and would not go back, the difference to my amphibs is definally evident, they are more active and their colours are bolder, i believe this due to the vitamin a content of their diet. Fruit flies are typically low in this vitamin, well most vitamins. Vitamin a is also linked to growth.

There is some stuff here too: http://dels-old.nas.edu/ilar_n/ilarjournal/48_3/pdfs/4803Pough.pdf


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

lizzifrogs said:


> Hatchling/micro crickets gut loaded on fish food are nutritionally better than fruit flies-keep a cm cube damp sponge in with your micro crickets to keep them hydrated as they perish quickly without a water source. Larger dendrobates will take size1 crickets aswell. Readily avaliable from all livefood suppliers.


I would not advise feeding crickets to darts, especially the smaller species as if not all get eaten they grow in the viv and can cause problems.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

955i said:


> I would not advise feeding crickets to darts, especially the smaller species as if not all get eaten they grow in the viv and can cause problems.


This was what I was always worried about .I have found very large crickets in my frog vivs after feeding them pinheads and I have been concerned that they would damage a frog.I have never seen it though as I suspect that the crickets will eat the plants more readily than a frog.

I do know someone who breeds large numbers of tincs and he uses mainly crickets.I must say his tincs are larger than most captive bred ones that I have seen. He has very good success and puts it down to the diet of crickets.

The problem with dartfrogs more than any other field of herpetology( except maybe chameleons) is that there are so many myths about them.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

lizzifrogs said:


> .
> 
> EAZA (European Association of Zoo's & Aquaria) have just published a study in the nutrition journal on gut loading crickets amphibian prey. I have been doing this now for 2 years and would not go back, the difference to my amphibs is definally evident, they are more active and their colours are bolder, i believe this due to the vitamin a content of their diet. Fruit flies are typically low in this vitamin, well most vitamins. Vitamin a is also linked to growth.
> 
> There is some stuff here too: http://dels-old.nas.edu/ilar_n/ilarjournal/48_3/pdfs/4803Pough.pdf


I fear I may be told off for going off topic to the original question here.I am not a scientist just a hobbyist so the first few references do not mean a great deal to me,sorry.

With regard to the debate on supplementation versus gut loading I really dont know as we are told one thing by vitamin manufacturers and one thing by others.It really is hard to know what to believe.I would suspect that the best way is to have an experiment with three vivs of identical frogs under identical conditions one fed fruitflies,one crickets and one a mixture to see what the best results are.I cant see that being done though.

Taking your theory to the logical end would you advocate feeding wild caught insects(assuming no pesticides etc)as these must surely have a better diet than even the most gutloaded cricket?


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## lizzifrogs (Mar 14, 2011)

I haven't found many crickets in vivs, very infrequently. In practicality any surplus to appetite drown themselves in the frog ponds. I feed every other day so on the day the frogs will be foraging for any that haven't been eaten the day before. I don't in all honesty see a frog sitting there and allowing a cricket to approach it and bite it, this seems to be a common misconception and as you say-they would be more of a pest to plants, my vivs are fully planted and I’ve had no problems. I'm sure an animal has historically been bitten or had a wound that could be attributed to a cricket bite but that may be due to a number of issues; inappropriate feeding, over feeding, the animal is sick or lethargic and cannot move away from crickets??? I think we need a 'peer reviewed' evidenced and science based approach to our animal husbandry and nutrition and not subscribe to traditional ideas that are out dated, we need to keep up with what is discovered and researched. Chester zoo are currently running some amphib feeding trials so i'll also be keeping a close eye on that next publication.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Unfortunately zoos in general take a dim view of hobbyists.It would be nice to see their reports.


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## lizzifrogs (Mar 14, 2011)

They are published on the internet. 
If you can google the references???-that's where the research is. Put them into google scholar-may throw up some more luck. Everything on google scholar is peer reviwed-every1 in that field who knows their stuff has read it and approved (or not) before it is published. Makes better reading than practical reptile keeping magazine etc.
Gut loading and supplementation are both important.
Dusting is usually to balance the calcium phosphorous ratio of the diet. Insects are typically low in calcium but will have some phosphorous-this is bad. The ratio of cao needs to ideally be 2:1 (from memory :?). Nutrobol addresses this along with additional vitamins and minerals.http://www.vetark.co.uk/Shop/Reptiles/Supplements/Nutrobal-for-reptiles.aspx
The idea of gut loading is because insects have an exoskeleton, no bones, a rigid outer skeleton, so if their gut is empty, nutritionally they are literally empty. You can gut load on fruit and veg, dry dog food (good for meal worms 4 beardies etc) bits of chicken and so on. Using a good quality fish food works well because it is already nutritionally balanced and that is being absorbed by the animal when the insect is eaten. New evidence seems to suggest that frogs require higher levels of carotenoids than is in insects or nutrobol, fish food is high in this vitamin A. Fish food is also a lot less messy & more convenient than chopping bits of veg etc.
Using wild caught insects will obviously omit the control you have over what the insect has consumed, food type & quantity.

In summary you need to gut load & suppliment to provide balanced nutrition and the greater understanding and control you have over this the better so i would avoid wild caught fruit flies unless you keep them and gut load them-not that i would feed a sole diet of fruit flies, however if you are making your own fruit fly culture medium you can encorperate nutrobol into this and gut load your fruit flies that way but this works out really expensive-i discovered and there is no solid evidence to suggest the nutrbol is absorbed by the fly.

Hope this helps


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Thank you . I tend to gut load my crickets with carrots,dry dog food and dandelions.In the past I have tried fish food but I have found it really smelly.

I wasn`t suggesting wild caught fruit flies I haven`t got the time for that but aphids and sweepings.


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## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

lizzifrogs said:


> Hatchling/micro crickets gut loaded on fish food are nutritionally better than fruit flies-keep a cm cube damp sponge in with your micro crickets to keep them hydrated as they perish quickly without a water source. Larger dendrobates will take size1 crickets aswell. Readily avaliable from all livefood suppliers.





colinm said:


> I think that you will open up a can of worms by that statement.
> Do you have anything to back this up because I have always wondered about this?


It depends on what you mean by 'nutritionally better' - people always use statements like this but each species has different requirements e.g. protein content may be most important for some, whereas calcium levels might be more important for others. Nutritional needs also vary throughout the life cycle.

Commerical micro crickets properly gutloaded on average actually have a slightly lower protein and fat content (but not by that much), however they have a higher % ash and more calcium and magnesium than FF.

Of course the reason a lot of dendrobates keepers may prefer FF over crickets is that they are compatible with elaborate planted tanks. Unless livefood is eaten really quickly then lots of crickets can mean lots of holes start appearing in the lovely plants!


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## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

beaniebopps said:


> It depends on what you mean by 'nutritionally better' - people always use statements like this but each species has different requirements e.g. protein content may be most important for some, whereas calcium levels might be more important for others. Nutritional needs also vary throughout the life cycle.
> 
> Commerical micro crickets properly gutloaded on average actually have a slightly lower protein and fat content (but not by that much), however they have a higher % ash and more calcium and magnesium than FF.
> 
> Of course the reason a lot of dendrobates keepers may prefer FF over crickets is that they are compatible with elaborate planted tanks. Unless livefood is eaten really quickly then lots of crickets can mean lots of holes start appearing in the lovely plants!


WHOOOOOOOOOOOPS Apologies if everything I've said has been mentioned already, I hadn't refreshed the page so my quoted comments from Colin were the last thing I had seen!


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

beaniebopps said:


> Of course the reason a lot of dendrobates keepers may prefer FF over crickets is that they are compatible with elaborate planted tanks. Unless livefood is eaten really quickly then lots of crickets can mean lots of holes start appearing in the lovely plants!


Could be so but they are easier to culture than crickets as well.If you buy commercially raised pinhead crickets through the post most arrive dead.Livefood companies only seem to put bran in the boxes and no potato or carrot to keep them hydrated.Most people dont want the hassle of breeding crickets.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

colinm said:


> Could be so but they are easier to culture than crickets as well.If you buy commercially raised pinhead crickets through the post most arrive dead.Livefood companies only seem to put bran in the boxes and no potato or carrot to keep them hydrated.Most people dont want the hassle of breeding crickets.


My fave local (general) petshop always puts bits of carrot in their cricket and locust tubs on arrival day, which I approve of, bigtime.

EDIT: having read the whole thread through, here's a couple of thoughts:Yes Scot, when I had to buy the damn fruitflies for my baby FBTs, I _did_ notice that the little monsters congregated around the teabag dish. Grrrr! Fortunately, my babies are now of a size to take small crickets and woodlice, so I don't have to put up with them anymore. Oh, and the reason flies die off in a newly set-up culture using yeast is that the yeast produces lots of carbon dioxide in the initial multiplication stage (hence why baking rises); effectivally, they are suffocated.


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## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

Spikebrit said:


> just thought i would update. After feeding last night i must not have put the lid full on one of my cultures. I came back to a room full of bloody flies. Oh how i hate them.
> 
> The electric flie swat was doing well last night
> 
> jay


I came back from Italy recently to find a lovely surprise like that! Fortunately, the escapees kept another escapee alive! Flippin' anole babies!

How often should you 'swap' containers to prevent mite (etc) problems?


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## Bluefrogs (Jun 14, 2011)

Best method for me is..Banana's, Orange juice, ready break, yeast and the magic ingredient Spirulina all blended together then placed in a plastic pint glass with kitchen roll on the top held by an elastic band. so that the flies can rest stick cardboard toilet roll holder inside the pint glass. never smells. kept temp around 75f and flies produce thousands of offspring.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

*READYBRECK and APPLE JUICE .... and that is all you need!!* 


its what me and my dad use and we get thousands and they last for ages too... no need for yeast or anything else ... just them two ingredients  and when it dries out you can just remove it and wash the pot and re use it


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Interesting thread guys,thankyou. especially for the links,i'll go back over them when time allows,much appeciated.We don't use crickets,but chuck every available wild food at our darts,when we can get our grubby mits on it.Ff recipe is tesco's cheepo hot oats honey and water,we add some superfly as well more for a more balanced diet for the flies than huge production increases. We also tend to plonk flies on any available fruit as and when its available just a few hours before feeding,ringing the changes.I harness the staples like ff spingtails tropical woodlice,but really my heart leis in getting as much variety into the tads/froglet/frogs as possible,i can't see that our diets can be other than difficient compared with whats available in the wild.
Colin i'm equally fascinated on the size of tincs,and the dietary factors that govern it,as they seem the most commonly kept dart that often suffers from undersize,given a few more months i'll have a much better non scientific take on whether,we can achieve this frog after frog,measured against a pr of WC adults,i have no yardsticks to measure anything yet,as everything is unknown,i have no comparisons even for growth rate.Its going to be interesting to see if we can achieve this without crickets,I'm pretty sure it can be done with auratus now but i haven't seen WC of the morphs we keep to judge this,or the mysites or leucs,but we are achieving a similar size or maybe abit larger than the generation that we are breeding from.
I an led to believe vit A to be difficient in alot of invert feeders,and also effects egg viability/ embryonic developement and sls,searches of dendroboard will yield more.
Interesting thread again much thanks to all
stu


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## Trixtabella (Apr 12, 2012)

I am starting of my fruit fly culture, how many fruit flies do I need to add to each pot? I have seen some online that sat a couple and others that say about 30?!? very confusing. The plastic cups I have are pint sized. 

Thanks in advance : victory:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Lots of flies for two reasons one you will get more flies and two the more maggots that you have the less likely that the medium will go mouldy.I generally put what I estmate to be 100-150 in a new culture.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Agree with Colin here, larger numbers work much better. To build on this however, once I have maggots I sometimes remove some of the flies and either feed them or put them in another culture. I do this as I found that quite often the old flies die on you just as you want to set up more cultures from your new one, and I'd rather use the flies and waste them, also I find with hydei that the adults compete with the maggots for the media, so it lasts longer with less adults once the maggots are out and about.  That's optional though.

Ade


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## Trixtabella (Apr 12, 2012)

Brilliant, thanks guys. I am going to have a crack at this tonight. 
Fingers crossed it will go well.


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## peterspets (Dec 17, 2009)

I now use empty 2 litre water bottles cut off for the containers, for the tops I use a cheap nylon weave dustsheet from poundland cut into squares.


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Interesting read, we need to keep in mind the scientific studies don't take into account that we dust the flies and change their nutritional value.

I've bred my own crix and have fed thousands of pinheads out. I had two that went uneaten and grew to a 1/2 inch. I noticed some odd behaviour from my frogs, noticed some plants that were being nibbled on and went for a look see. Found them and squashed them. lol No harm to the frogs. Although, I think they're a quality feeder, I don't see how they could contribute to the size of a Tinc. In my opinion, the size a Tinc reaches is based on having a stable food supply. I've seen a lot of runted Tincs and many more that have not reached their potential. Plenty of food on a regular basis is needed to get them through until adulthood. They're eating machines and often are recommended as a starter frog. I used to recommend them myself, but have since changed my stance on that after seeing so many that just don't measure up. . Unless the newer hobbyist is _very_ familiar with culturing, understands just how much food they can take in and has lots of feeders available, I would not recommend them. I'd be more apt to recommend a Leucomelas, Auratus, Tricolour or Imitator.

Best


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Interesting read, we need to keep in mind the scientific studies don't take into account that we dust the flies and change their nutritional value.
> 
> I've bred my own crix and have fed thousands of pinheads out. I had two that went uneaten and grew to a 1/2 inch. I noticed some odd behaviour from my frogs, noticed some plants that were being nibbled on and went for a look see. Found them and squashed them. lol No harm to the frogs. Although, I think they're a quality feeder, I don't see how they could contribute to the size of a Tinc. In my opinion, the size a Tinc reaches is based on having a stable food supply. I've seen a lot of runted Tincs and many more that have not reached their potential. Plenty of food on a regular basis is needed to get them through until adulthood. They're eating machines and often are recommended as a starter frog. I used to recommend them myself, but have since changed my stance on that after seeing so many that just don't measure up. . Unless the newer hobbyist is _very_ familiar with culturing, understands just how much food they can take in and has lots of feeders available, I would not recommend them. I'd be more apt to recommend a Leucomelas, Auratus, Tricolour or Imitator.
> 
> Best


I've said for yonks that if I do ever go the dart route, it'll be lecomelas- but this thread encapsulates exactly why I've held back- the damn fruitflies! :devil:
I couldn't wait for my baby FBTs to get big enough that I didn't have to have the little :censor:s in my place!


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Hi Ron,

Don't let the flies hold you back. Feed Pinheads instead. Leucs don't need a ton of food either. :2thumb:

Cheers


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Or go for Phyllobates they take bigger food.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Interesting read, we need to keep in mind the scientific studies don't take into account that we dust the flies and change their nutritional value.
> 
> I've bred my own crix and have fed thousands of pinheads out. I had two that went uneaten and grew to a 1/2 inch. I noticed some odd behaviour from my frogs, noticed some plants that were being nibbled on and went for a look see. Found them and squashed them. lol No harm to the frogs. Although, I think they're a quality feeder, I don't see how they could contribute to the size of a Tinc. In my opinion, the size a Tinc reaches is based on having a stable food supply. I've seen a lot of runted Tincs and many more that have not reached their potential. Plenty of food on a regular basis is needed to get them through until adulthood. They're eating machines and often are recommended as a starter frog. I used to recommend them myself, but have since changed my stance on that after seeing so many that just don't measure up. . Unless the newer hobbyist is _very_ familiar with culturing, understands just how much food they can take in and has lots of feeders available, I would not recommend them. I'd be more apt to recommend a Leucomelas, Auratus, Tricolour or Imitator.
> 
> Best


Glenn you've reared a couple of tincs, do you think its possible to overfeed these guys whilst growing,obviously huge quantities whilst they are very small is far from ideal,I'm not talking about being silly, but once they get going the growth rate seems pretty fast and apetite almost insatiable, to maintain this.Do you feed daily? and over what time period?
We've not got past the few month stage with our own young.Although i guess we've taken the citronella and macheto almost the rest of the way,just questing for details mate.Our macheto female is closing down size wise on tank,our WC attachibakka,if not bigger. My little bit of rearing with these says your bang on the money,with the above post,but i'm still in the early stages of this. No doubts that these guys are veracious as tads as well,definitely putting away more food than the other frogs we have reared so far,my hunch is that this need for stusained good food starts very early,if we are to get tincs to the size where one can put them on a leash(i love that:no1 
thanks bro
Stu


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## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> if we are to get tincs to the size where one can put them on a leash(i love that:no1


 I forgot about that one. :lol2:

I have seen obese Tincs, Stu. I feed daily when they're very young. Not huge feeding but daily. When they hit the 6-8 month range is when the growth is huge! That's when I start to "Biggie size it" :2thumb: Their appetite is insane and the rate at which they grow is the same. The need a very steady diet up to this point and then it's time to strap on the feed bag and watch them grow! I have never be able to make a Tinc even chubby at this time. I back way off when they're adults. In the winter time as little as a couple of times a week. I just keep an eye on the body weight and feed accordingly.

Here's a pic of a Regina I traded for. She was a little underweight when I got her. Nothing awful though. You can see the bone at the base of her skull.










The same frog a few months later. This is what I like to see as far as weight goes. Not fat and not slim. Froglet right through to adult.










She's a very special frog. She's a sole survivor from a shipment that came from EU a few years back. I have some boys growing up for her and can't wait to introduce them. :2thumb:

Cheers


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> Don't let the flies hold you back. Feed Pinheads instead. Leucs don't need a ton of food either. :2thumb:
> 
> Cheers


Well one food i`ll never use for my frogs is crickets in any shape or form.
Glenn, I don`t know what kind of Leucs you have but my lot just shovel food down like its their last meal.
Pigs, every one of them :lol2:.
And last but not least.
Here`s what you call a well fed Tinc lmao.

Mike


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

frogfreak said:


> Interesting read, we need to keep in mind the scientific studies don't take into account that we dust the flies and change their nutritional value.


Or what we feed our feeder insects on.I still maintain that most people use fruitflies because they are easier to culture than crickets.Then if you buy pinhead crickets lots arrive dead.Most livefood sellers dont put any carrot or potato in the boxes for moisture.

It would be interesting to study the growth patterns on two groups of frogs fed on different diets but kept in identical conditions.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

colinm said:


> Or what we feed our feeder insects on.I still maintain that most people use fruitflies because they are easier to culture than crickets.Then if you buy pinhead crickets lots arrive dead.Most livefood sellers dont put any carrot or potato in the boxes for moisture.
> 
> It would be interesting to study the growth patterns on two groups of frogs fed on different diets but kept in identical conditions.


I agree Colin this would be a fascinating study!
Its way to early for us to be sure on anything,especially tincs which take such along time to mature,i hoped you'ld put something into this,good to have thoughts from the longer term guys,especially different takes on all this.
Mike:gasp::lol2:

Glenn,Colin,when does a tinc slow up growth wise,do you both just moinitor when exactly weight gain appears to increase and growth slows,regarding feeding quantities..

So far i'm pleased with the growth of ours ,i've already noted a massive difference,in how a tinc hold weight in the period up to say 3 months,they just seem to burn it off. 

during the early stages,i can get leucs a bit podgy,mysties i have to watch we don't over feed, auratus seem the most similar,but mature so much quicker than tincs,i know we can get them to where i want them.Tincs and size is still a work in progress as far as our own young,so far we tend to feed springs and ff daily,maybe miss the odd day here and there,but there will be strays to hunt down for sure.Plus the wild grub.and dwarf white seeded into each tub
I think all the live wild stuff as tads might be ahelp, to final size,but no way i can be sure on that!
Colin with us its not the culturing,its the biting frogs rumours,primarily,as you've mentioned many times,many rumours with darts,oh Shaz does hate crix:lol2:, I've always hoped that the aphids and wild food would offset lack of crix,i don't think we'll ever use them, so far I'm happy,with final sizes of what we have reared and brought in,i think!!!!! they are about right,a work in progress

Glenn the leash is brilliance,ive made a few folks smile by stealing that:blush:
Stu


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