# Why do frogs die in dirty water?



## Entoursis (Jan 8, 2012)

Good evening.

My question is mainly related to aquatic/semi-aquatic species. Say, marsh frogs.
It is known that, being kept in aquarium, frogs would eventually die (in 2-3 weeks max., I believe) if water is not replaced occasionally. Frogs are pooping, secreting some kind of skin excretions and turn their pool into something incongruous with living. 
My question is, what are the most crucial properties of dirty water that actually lead frog to death. I mean, exact chemicals and concentrations, as well as their source in aquarium.
Well, as far as I know, ammonia and ammonium are the most damaging factors, deriving from excrement. Do you know any other chemicals that have chance to infest frog's aquarium in deadly amount? For example, are there any special skin excretions capable of dissolving and accumulating in water and becoming dangerous to frog's health at certain point. Are there any special poisons produced by aqua plants if one chooses to keep them in frog's tank?
And probably, there is something in addition to ammonium(ia) in excrements...
Also, I'm very interested in finding any numbers regarding the topic, like critical ammonia and other chems concentrations, recomended concentrations, concentration of this chemicals in natural pools/lakes the frogs live in etc. Please, let me know if you have ever found any data on this.

Thanks in advance.
Anton


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Bacteria build up would be one of the main problems.


----------



## Entoursis (Jan 8, 2012)

Hm... I always was of the oppinion that bacteria are a help, that's why it's even recomended by some guru aquarium keepers to use some pond water at the aquarium launch to provide it with some bacteria startup.
Don't they clean aquarium from pollutants? E.g. aforesaid ammonia.


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Entoursis said:


> Hm... I always was of the oppinion that bacteria are a help, that's why it's even recomended by some guru aquarium keepers to use some pond water at the aquarium launch to provide it with some bacteria startup.
> Don't they clean aquarium from pollutants? E.g. aforesaid ammonia.


Some bacteria are useful but in dirty condition harmful bacteria build up. Amphibians have very sensitive skin and can be prone to infection if conditions are substandard.


Adam


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Some bacteria, as noted, are helpful- some are not. Frogs and other amphibians have semipermiable skins with which they absorb water- but also anything else that is disolved in that water, including bacterial waste products. The mucus and toxins that they produce in their skin protects them to an extent, but it's not as effective as the skins of reptiles, birds and mammals.
Semipermiable skin has another disadvantage, too- the balance of salts and water in their bodies can be easily disrupted by osmosis across the membranes- hence the advice not to give them distilled or RO water to bathe in; the water will be drawn into the stronger solution in their bodies, meaning that they absorb too much. By the same token, a stronger solution externally will draw water out, dehydrating them- which is why no amphibians live in the sea.


----------



## TJR1989 (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi,

If the water is unfiltered then as the waste is produced you will get a build of toxic ammonia, which in fish kills them, this turns into nitrite by nitrifying bacteria. Nitrite is again toxic to fish and although not as toxic as ammonia is still quite toxic and will kill the fish. The final peice in the ammonia cycle is Nitrate which isn't toxic to the fish but if high over time can make them ill/die. 

Nitrate is removed from the water by live plants (they use it as a nutrient) and water changes as well as evaporation. 

Ammonia as you say comes from excrement but also anything that is breaking down in the water e.g. un-eaten food and dying live plants as well. 

In regards to amounts, OATA Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association which is like a govening body for use fish keepers recommends ammonia to ideally be 0ppm, and to not go above 0.2ppm. Nitrite should never go above 0.2 - 0.25ppm but again ideally should be 0 and then Nitrate should not be over 50ppm from your tap water / water source reading this is because Nitrate is in tap water anyway.

Obviously these are mainly for fish but i assume would be the same for all aquatic species. 

The only way the Nitrogen cycle can occur is via certain bacteria that will grow on biological media i.e. a fish tank filter. In a mature system ammonia should be 0 , Nitirite 0 and then nitrate will give a reading in correlation to how many fish / waste is being produced. 

Also other factors are considered, i.e. Chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals etc.

If using tap water then it should always be conditioned with a excellent quality tap water conditioner as although leaving water to stand for 24hrs will allow the chlorine in the water to evaporate it will not allow chloramine and heavy metals such as copper to evaporate and these most definately need to be removed.

In regards to pH again it depends on your water source and then the aquatic species you are keeping, in some natural habitats for the frogs it will be soft water (i.e. slightly acidic) such as peat marshes etc whilst in others it may be hard, alkaline water. Again you will have to research the species but i am not sure it will have a major affect on frogs.

Just remember also that pH has a massive influence on ammonia well the free radical ion ammonium. Depending on the pH it can either swing the equilibrium reaction either way. Whereby at one end of the scale it can turn ammonia into ammonium whilst at the other end it can do the opposite turning ammonium into ammonia so just be aware of this if using quite acidic/alkaline water. 

As already mentioned most frogs/toads release toxins into the water and this is why most people don't advise placing fish into waters which frogs use as this toxin can cause death to the fish and will presumably build up and affect the frogs. 

The best thing to do will be to filter the water body if possible, either with an internal fish tank filter or sponge filter or with an external canister filter. 

If this is not possibly then changing at least 25% of the water every week should definately be done all depending on the capacity of the water and how many animals are wasting/using it. 

I don't have any data at all, may be difficult to obtain unless you contact uni's and zoo's? 

Tom



Entoursis said:


> Good evening.
> 
> My question is mainly related to aquatic/semi-aquatic species. Say, marsh frogs.
> It is known that, being kept in aquarium, frogs would eventually die (in 2-3 weeks max., I believe) if water is not replaced occasionally. Frogs are pooping, secreting some kind of skin excretions and turn their pool into something incongruous with living.
> ...


----------



## Entoursis (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for all the answer. Quite extensive understnding now.
Skin toxins of frogs are species-specific, are they? And they probably do not affect frogs of the same species much?


----------

