# What happens - too much calcium?



## ninnipoo (Dec 7, 2008)

What happens to a BD if you give them too much calcium? I keep reading about not enough calcium but happens if its too much?: victory:


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

ninnipoo said:


> What happens to a BD if you give them too much calcium? I keep reading about not enough calcium but happens if its too much?: victory:


 
Hi mate, 

As long as the dragon in question is healthy, then there shouldn't be a problem, he shouldn't take up more calcium then his body needs : victory:

Jay


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

This is a very important question, the answer is MBD, at least a form of MBD know as Hypercalcemia. It is characterized by calcification of soft tissue, most notably muscle and vascular tissue.

What is also important to note is that calcium uptake is heavily dependent on vitamin D3, which is supplied by your UV light. This is especially important to remember in Bearded dragons and other diurnal species. Their bodies will take up more calcium than needed, as they have no direct control over this process.

Andy


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> This is a very important question, the answer is MBD, at least a form of MBD know as Hypercalcemia. It is characterized by calcification of soft tissue, most notably muscle and vascular tissue.
> 
> What is also important to note is that calcium uptake is heavily dependent on vitamin D3, which is supplied by your UV light. This is especially important to remember in Bearded dragons and other diurnal species. Their bodies will take up more calcium than needed, as they have no direct control over this process.
> 
> Andy


Hi mate,

Interseting point you have brought up here. My understanding of culcium uptake is as follows;

An animal will take in calcium, to use this calcium the animal has to create the vitimin D3, the most natural (and best way) is via uvb, this I was led to believe was self limiting, i.e. the body produced enough D3 to take up the amount of calcium it needed, and no more.

Have I got this wrong, can you point me to a science paper to the contrary?

Cheers Jay


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## Stexual (Mar 11, 2009)

jabba1967 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> Interseting point you have brought up here. My understanding of culcium uptake is as follows;
> 
> ...


Same thing I thought... And the excess calcium it dosent use is "Pooped" out?


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## Hellcat (Aug 10, 2009)

i would be interested in a science paper on this also, debating the issue either way.

Thanks.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

jabba1967 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> Interseting point you have brought up here. My understanding of culcium uptake is as follows;
> 
> ...


As far as I'm aware, D3 *production* is self-limiting; D3 *absorption*(e.g. from overuse of stuff like Nutrobal) isn't. Healthy beardies can't overproduce D3 (so theoretically can't overabsorb Ca in the gut as long as they rely on naturally-produced D3), but if you kept them under a high-intensity UV source (taking them up to maximum internal production) then combined that with overuse of something like Nutrobal then there's the potential for D3 levels to get too high. In that case, the end result would be hypercalcaemia, as Andy said. That's why if you're using something like a MegaRay as a UV source, you'd be well advised to reduce the amount of D3-containing supplement you use for the beardie.

I can't say I've ever seen it in a beardie, but I do remember a couple of leos I saw brought into a pet shop who were being fed nutrobal twice a day on their insects, with a dish of nutrobal in the cage for licking who were pretty ill. From what I remember they went to a vet and had a clear fecal, and started getting better once they were put onto a proper supplementation regime.


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## paulb1912 (Aug 2, 2009)

I give my beardie crickets mixed in Nutrobal, I mix them once a day but I also mix some into salad, thats what i was told to do. I feed him 2/3 times day depending on how many it eats during first two.

Is that wrong then ?


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## Hellcat (Aug 10, 2009)

i dust livefood once per week with a couple pinches of nutrobal, as instructed by nwrr.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

paulb1912 said:


> I give my beardie crickets mixed in Nutrobal, I mix them once a day but I also mix some into salad, thats what i was told to do. I feed him 2/3 times day depending on how many it east during first two.
> 
> Is that wrong then ?


It's recommended to only use nutrobal twice a week, and to use a pure calcium supplement on the other five days. Within reason, too much pure calcium won't cause a great deal of problems - they'll just excrete what's not used. Too much nutrobal could theoretically cause problems.


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## reptiles_galore (Aug 13, 2008)

You really should only use nutrabol once or twice a week, for the rest of the time you should be using pure calcium which does not contain D3 as this will reduced chances of hypercalcaemia.

Dave


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## paulb1912 (Aug 2, 2009)

cheers mate, bloody pet shop wont be using them again EVER

I have actually got some liquid calcium for its water but need to get some calcium powder now.


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## Adam W (Apr 21, 2008)

paulb1912 said:


> cheers mate, bloody pet shop wont be using them again EVER
> 
> I have actually got some liquid calcium for its water but need to get some calcium powder now.


Yep, thats why i always take advice from pet shops with a pinch of salt. Not any more though as i dont go into pet shops, i just order online.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> This is a very important question, the answer is MBD, at least a form of MBD know as Hypercalcemia. It is characterized by calcification of soft tissue, most notably muscle and vascular tissue.
> 
> What is also important to note is that calcium uptake is heavily dependent on vitamin D3, which is supplied by your UV light. This is especially important to remember in Bearded dragons and other diurnal species. Their bodies will take up more calcium than needed, as they have no direct control over this process.
> 
> Andy


Dropped the ball here for a minute guys... while watching Hearts get beaten in the football. I meant to add (or perhaps, in my half paying attention state thought I had...) "when additional D3 is added to the diet".

Andy


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

HadesDragons said:


> As far as I'm aware, D3 *production* is self-limiting; D3 *absorption*(e.g. from overuse of stuff like Nutrobal) isn't. Healthy beardies can't overproduce D3 (so theoretically can't overabsorb Ca in the gut as long as they rely on naturally-produced D3), but if you kept them under a high-intensity UV source (taking them up to maximum internal production) then combined that with overuse of something like Nutrobal then there's the potential for D3 levels to get too high. In that case, the end result would be hypercalcaemia, as Andy said. That's why if you're using something like a MegaRay as a UV source, you'd be well advised to reduce the amount of D3-containing supplement you use for the beardie.
> 
> I can't say I've ever seen it in a beardie, but I do remember a couple of leos I saw brought into a pet shop who were being fed nutrobal twice a day on their insects, with a dish of nutrobal in the cage for licking who were pretty ill. From what I remember they went to a vet and had a clear fecal, and started getting better once they were put onto a proper supplementation regime.


Nice answer Andy, but dare I say a little over complicated, the reason I never metioned O/D ing on D3/nutrobal supliments is because this wasn't the question, we are in danger of confusing the subject here, the o/p wanted to know if a beardie would o/d on calcium, not nutrobal.

Though the point you made about Leo's is proof that D3 supliments don't work, uvb is the ONLY safe way to give ALL reptiles (including nocturnal) vitimin D3.

And as for mega rays...I doubt the o/p is using one :whistling2: 


Jay


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