# HELP ! whats this mold on my pink toe tarantula ??



## ruukasuu (Sep 12, 2010)

noticed this on my pink toe yesterday and today it has spred even more.
he wont eat and i kinda looks like his fang is stuck ?!? 

anyone seen this?


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Have a closer look it may be mites,..


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## StaneyWid (Jun 2, 2012)

Looks like the mould that grows when not enuff ventilation,never seen it on a T b4 tho :whistling2:


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Is the sub wet in its enclosure,?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I take it you are referring to the white area around its fangs?
The most likely issue for that is nematodes, and if that's the case you have a problem.
Get it away from any other tarantula you have. Is it possible to get some of the white stuff away from the mouth so that you could look at it under a microscope or magnifying glass?


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## StaneyWid (Jun 2, 2012)

Poxicator said:


> I take it you are referring to the white area around its fangs?
> The most likely issue for that is nematodes, and if that's the case you have a problem.
> Get it away from any other tarantula you have. Is it possible to get some of the white stuff away from the mouth so that you could look at it under a microscope or magnifying glass?



Pete will it spread all over the carrier eventually ?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Looks like late stage nematodes to me.

Sorry to say, but these are usually fatal. I was recently reading about these and it seems even vets are stumped as to how to treat them. Avermectins tended to kill the nematodes but not sufficiently quickly enough and even if it seemed successful the animal still apparently died more than not.

From invertebrate medicine, chapter author: Romain Pizzi (2nd ed.):

"Histopathology of euthanised affected spiders has demonstrated that the infection appears to remain localised to the mouth antemortem and is often associated with bacterial invasion of surrounding tissues, leading to inflammation and necrosis."


You can check if it is definitely nematodes by flushing the mouthparts in a little water and looking for tiny white wriggling worms. Continued rinsing with saline can help but Pizzi reports that most still died shortly after the visible signs, and suggested euthanasia as the only real 'treatment'. 

It might be worth freezing the substrate you are using as well, as they may be transmitted from soil nematodes. If you are using mealworm cultures, I would be wary about using these as they are also thought to be a potential carrier of these nematodes, but this is unconfirmed.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

no, not to my knowledge. Thankfully Ive never experienced them but Ive read, and in the words of the respected Ray Gabriel, you might as well euthanise your collection! They tend to stay around the mouth parts and I'd be very surprised if they didnt enter the tarantula. Infection of other tarantula is quite likely. This is definitely a case for ICU and complete cleanse of the enclosure.

Lee is looking at remedying this issue as he read increasing the temperatures to 90 and above kills off the eggs. Obviously you need to ensure you don't desiccate the tarantula too!

I seriously hope this isnt the case.

Where did you get the T and how long have you had it?


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## StaneyWid (Jun 2, 2012)

Poxicator said:


> no, not to my knowledge. Thankfully Ive never experienced them but Ive read, and in the words of the respected Ray Gabriel, you might as well euthanise your collection! They tend to stay around the mouth parts and I'd be very surprised if they didnt enter the tarantula. Infection of other tarantula is quite likely. This is definitely a case for ICU and complete cleanse of the enclosure.
> 
> Lee is looking at remedying this issue as he read increasing the temperatures to 90 and above kills off the eggs. Obviously you need to ensure you don't desiccate the tarantula too!
> 
> ...


Just asking because we got a WC in months ago and a couple days later it was covered in a substance that looks very similiar!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

tbh, most of the reports Ive heard of is via WC specimens


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I wouldn't panic just yet about the rest of the collection (although spread IS possible). 

I have seen nematodes infect one of my Lycosidae - the others were fine despite being on the same bench, in a row next to each other.

I was hoping to send them off for possible ID but havne't got round to it yet. The only guy I know of to send them to is in the states, so not so easy to just post alcohol specimens to him. 

My observations were that the spider went off feeding and became lethargic. After a few days I found the female dead, with nematodes erupting from the mouth parts. 

I froze the substrate afterwards for 2 weeks to try to ensure thorough 'sterilisation'. I have since used the substrate for other individuals without apparent effect.

ICU is not going to do anything (other than the quarantine part of it) - raising humidity if anything is going to make matters worse since nematodes require humid conditions to survive. 

I would try flushing the mouthparts with saline (in a completely different room). This will probably not save your animal however, and euthanasia might be required.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

GRB said:


> *I froze the substrate afterwards for 2 weeks to try to ensure thorough 'sterilisation'. I have since used the substrate for other individuals without apparent effect.*


Why not just throw the substrate, and use new stuff instead of risking it?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

StaneyWid said:


> Just asking because we got a WC in months ago and a couple days later it was covered in a substance that looks very similiar!


Did you sell it on? Might be worth contacting the buyer if you remember to warn them. 

I said not to panic, but they can spread if someone was not sufficiently informed to recognise their potential.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Biggys said:


> Why not just throw the substrate, and use new stuff instead of risking it?


Because I use soil in tubs which have a living substrate of moss and lichen on it that takes several weeks to establish. Since most of what I use them for are WC or CB true spiders, they are only in use for short periods of time anyway. 

Freezing doesnt kill the mosses, but it does kill all the fauna. I'd be surprised if nematodes could survive that sort of freezing - and my suspicions are that nematodes only influence spiders with existing health issues. Either from weakening from age, or from other factors.


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## StaneyWid (Jun 2, 2012)

Poxicator said:


> tbh, most of the reports Ive heard of is via WC specimens


This case was WC,and the whole T was caked in it! Hmmmm :gasp:


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

GRB said:


> Because I use soil in tubs which have a living substrate of moss and lichen on it that takes several weeks to establish. Since most of what I use them for are WC or CB true spiders, they are only in use for short periods of time anyway.
> 
> Freezing doesnt kill the mosses, but it does kill all the fauna. I'd be surprised if nematodes could survive that sort of freezing - and my suspicions are that nematodes only influence spiders with existing health issues. Either from weakening from age, or from other factors.


 
Ahh. fair play, I assumed it was just your bog standard coir : victory:


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## PrincessBlondie (Jun 18, 2009)

Where did the other 6 pages go?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

PrincessBlondie said:


> Where did the other 6 pages go?


Cleaned so the thread can focus on the OP's animal.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

To the Op, can you keep up posted on the state of the T, I would be interested to see the outcome of this one! :2thumb:


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## PrincessBlondie (Jun 18, 2009)

Ruuka, let us know how you get on Hun


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

What causes nemotodes?


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Biggys said:


> *So if EVERYONE can keep on topic and not act like they are playing sheriff.....*
> 
> 
> What causes nemotodes?


Ha, sir i fear you ask to much,..


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Nematode worms and tarantulas

I found this Article on Nemotodes and T's pretty interesting read


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

I only just saw this, it does look like nematodes (thats a very big bunch if it is) but you need to confirm that this is the case. 
Sometimes they may defecate on the sides of the enclosure and then it can become consumed if you mist the sides of the enclosure and the spider acts as an eight legged mop to drink up the droplets. 
Also what water do you use? Excess chlorine doesn't do them much good.
You will see if they are nematodes by shining a light on them, they will appear glistening and writhing (maybe a yellow coloration if in late stages of breeding maturity) also you may notice a sweet smell coming from them.
As pete says i do currently have an adult female Poecilotheria smithi with them, i am almost certain they came from contaminated live foods (this girl never eats my cb dubia!) she had a sac and was fine, ate after i took it from her and a week later i noticed she had them, the cricket was the only new thing to enter the enclosure for a month.
I am currently keeping her in an empty clear candy floss container, dry and at high 90F in an attempt to kill the nematodes (given, it won't exactly be comfortable for her but she will die anyway if not).
So 2 weeks in she has no visible nematodes at all but whether any are hiding in the gut etc i'm not sure, she still tucks her palps but that may be due to her fangs having the routine disability. 
Time will tell, i'm just hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
In your case, and if it does get confirmed as nematodes, its worth bearing in mind that there are more than one type of invert parasitic nematode which appear slightly differently. 
First things first, any prey items you have dropped into the spider's enclosure and then removed, where did it go next? Do not under any circumstances pull the prey item out and put it in another enclosure as the risk of contamination to the next specimen is very high! Even if the next one doesn't eat, the nematodes may fall into the soil and live there for a while (especially damp soil) until such a time they find a new host.
Do not place the uneaten prey item back into the box of other prey items, they will be contaminated too and then you have a real problem if you start feeding them off to 20-30+ of your collection!
The soil, bin it instantly, the enclosure (ideally bin that too but failing that) soak it overnight in a bath of boiling soapy water and dont use for at least a month, any furnishings, cork bark etc bin them! Put the bin bag outside so fungus gnats dont transport the nematodes around. Soak your feeding forceps in hot soapy water overnight and dry thoroughly.
Retrace your steps thinking of where they may have come from and what you may have done to spread them from this one to another, you don't want a horrible domino effect to happen here and they are a serious threat to your entire collection.
Good luck.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Nematode cure

Might be worth a look too! 


Would using something like a very diluted dose of frontline work or would that be likely to kill the T?


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Nematode cure

Might be worth a look too! 


Would using something like a very diluted dose of frontline work or would that be likely to kill the T?


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

Biggys said:


> Nematode cure
> 
> Might be worth a look too!
> 
> ...


Yep :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Biggys said:


> Would using something like a very diluted dose of frontline work or would that be likely to kill the T?


Yes, that would damage the tarantula. Plus frontline is not designed to eliminate nematodes.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Veyron said:


> Yep :lol2:





GRB said:


> Yes, that would damage the tarantula. Plus frontline is not designed to eliminate nematodes.


Hmmm....So is there no cure for them what so ever?


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

No i wouldnt use anything like spot on


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

Biggys said:


> Hmmm....So is there no cure for them what so ever?


Not (yet) from what I've heard.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Veyron said:


> Not (yet) from what I've heard.


And I take it there is no preventatives either?


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## PaperWasp (Jul 29, 2009)

Biggys said:


> And I take it there is no preventatives either?


Bob martins


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

The problem is finding something that kills the nematodes (ideally contagiously like a disease/infection) that doesn't affect the tarantula. There is nothing like that known at the moment, i'm just trying this heat theory as a 'what i got to lose?'
Insect Parasitic Nematodes


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

PaperWasp said:


> Bob martins


Would that not Kill the T either?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

dragon's den said:


> The soil, bin it instantly, the enclosure (ideally bin that too but failing that) soak it overnight in a bath of boiling soapy water and dont use for at least a month, any furnishings, cork bark etc bin them! Put the bin bag outside so fungus gnats dont transport the nematodes around. Soak your feeding forceps in hot soapy water overnight and dry thoroughly.


I understand the concern, but nematodes are everywhere. I don't think even those steps would eliminate nematodes - we probbaly carry them about on our clothes, skin etc anyway and they will arrive with WC animals as well. Unless you go ultra sterile / ultra dry, then they probably exist in all collections already, but go unnoticed or cause no issues, existing in balance with everything else. 

This is what makes me think they are like mites - a symptom of some other underlying issue that goes unnoticed. They attack sub-optimal health individuals and then the immune response is not sufficient to repel them when it normally would. 

How old is the individual? You'd expect old or very young animals to be at most risk, followed by weakened individuals due to disease. 

It's possible that nematodes are in soils etc all the time and only manifest as an issue with weakened individuals. Because they are the visible stage we assume they cause it. Without knowing more of the nematodes then you can't be sure either way. 

All I'm saying is that for years people used soil from gardens that would be laced with nematodes as well as everything else, and nematodes were still uncommon. They are uncommon now. I've had an individual die associated with nematodes but it did not spread to the adjacent healthy (and younger) individuals right next to it. I've also never seen nematodes be an issue in naturalist tanks (of my own) where you'd expect them to be most prevalent.

Perhaps a cautious approach is warranted, but I do wonder if nuking / binning everything is a really needed.


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

GRB said:


> I understand the concern, but nematodes are everywhere. I don't think even those steps would eliminate nematodes - we probbaly carry them about on our clothes, skin etc anyway and they will arrive with WC animals as well. Unless you go ultra sterile / ultra dry, then they probably exist in all collections already, but go unnoticed or cause no issues, existing in balance with everything else.
> 
> This is what makes me think they are like mites - a symptom of some other underlying issue that goes unnoticed. They attack sub-optimal health individuals and then the immune response is not sufficient to repel them when it normally would.
> 
> ...


I just see it better safe than sorry.
If there is a confirmed case of parasitic nematodes it is good practice to get rid of what there were/maybe are still in.
I agree they may be present in other unbeknownst places, but keeping something they are confirmed as being in is not practical.


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

Last time i had one with them was 2010 and i kept the same soil and bark etc for a month, i put a striata juvenile in there and it had them within a week.


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

I agree with that too, they literally will be everywhere, in fact these now may be a generation of those back in 2010 in one way or another, hiding here, there and everywhere and reproducing when and where they can.
Or they may have just come from the live food.


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## pcharlton (Mar 23, 2012)

very good read i had baboon with that. the seller said put it down he will replace it i could not do it anyway it died a couple of hours later.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Arent they the cause for quite a few mammalian infections too? I know that they are often present in soil and gardeners often have effects from them.


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

selina20 said:


> Arent they the cause for quite a few mammalian infections too? I know that they are often present in soil and gardeners often have effects from them.


Ascaris lumbricoides among others can and do infect humans, these are invert parasites, likely to be Steinernema. 
Farmers actually buy them and use them on the soil in which they grow crops and they seek out and kill grubs and other bugs in the soil which feed off the farmers crops.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Just got'a say, what a cracking thread, this is what we join forums for,:2thumb: some top posts,..


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Any update OP?


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## ruukasuu (Sep 12, 2010)

Sorry i havent updated, ive been without a phone for months (android) and havent beem active.

Unfortunatly the pink toe died about 4-5 hours after i made this post 
None of my other Ts were effected but im truly GUTTED about losing this T 

I only had it for about a week and it was kept in the same rub as i bought it in... Neon gecko in glasgow btw


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