# catfish



## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

Alright chaps and chappettes,

Can anyone tell me what kind of size the pictus grow to?

I would love to keep a cat but obvious have issues that i cant put em in my 4ft comm. tank being the baby fish murdering things they are!

And my angel tank is only 3ft but it gna be gettin bigger when required.

Is there anything that grows to a recognisable length that aint gna be an issue in a 3ft tank? i havent bothered reading much bout cats as ive always figured their gna be far too big for my tank.

PS: anyone got ideas for colourful pretty snails for coldwater tanks? can the golden apples etc go into coldwater?

Matt


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

They grow to about 5" nice fish but like company so if you go for it get 2 or more


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

thanks rum.

My 3ft tank holds 1 algae eater, 1 baby plec (1.5" or somert) and 5 baby baby angels lol. there are pics on here somewhere.

But like i said this will be canging when circumstances require it to do so.

could i house 2 pictus in that setup without issues? Ive got 2 bits of wood in there n using 1-3 and 2-5mm gravel for the base. Ive also got plants on order to live plant it all out properly once they get here.

Like i said, are there any others that will be suitable? want a redtailed, but i dont own an ocean to house it in lol  damn things so pretty but they have to grow so damned big -.-


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

cant see a problem with adding a pair of pictus to that tank, When I had them I had 4 adults and a young JD in a 3 foot tank with no problems


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

so pictus seem to be a gogo lol.

Other thing was, whats different to the diet? it might be difficult feeding them all seperately ennit?

I can just get some pellets or somert for catty's i guess i know theyve got cat specific foods out there.

Apart from the 1 log n the plants that will be going in soon, should there be any other requirements to a tank for these guys?

PS: still seeking answers on snails people


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

As above mentioned, around 5 inch is pretty much max, can be kept by it's own but does prefer to be in groups...3-5 is best.

Anythink small enough will be considered a snack lol, and i mean they will literally disapear over night.

If its a three foot tank you should be fine with 2, i persoanlly think 4 foot is minimum becasue they are so active.

mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

thanks mark.

I might have to go n have a look at getting two for now lol. nothing in my angel tank is small enough to be dinnertime. 

I guess as and when time goes by and unevitably i am feeding fish to my toilet, i can prolly deter the 4ft tank from being setup for babys, i will prolly look to be keeping gouramis/mollies in the comm tank once i start to restock whenever that may be, as much as the neons are nice n stuff, i want more recognisable fish in terms of size lol.


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

LOL, one word though, put fish in a bin not a toilet , very much frowned upon putting a possible ill fish down there just due to possible contimation of natural wildlife etc etc....

The 4 foot would obviouslybe better but the 3 foot should be fine anyways.

Excellent choice of fish, stunninly beautiful and are very much charachers, you will love them 

mark​


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

one word of warning never try and catch them in a net ,the spines get hooked up when I kept them the little sods made my fingers bleed quite a few times :lol2:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

haha yeah it was just a saying about the toilet, i remember as a kid when we had a mass death of fish in my folks tank they told me how the treaded toilet had eaten them all whilst we had been out on holiday, what had happened is my uncle hadnt bothered to come n feed n check fish, the filter packed up too n obv. everything was f00ked.

My comm tanks got glowlights and neons n guppies in at the moment as well as gouramis n stuff. my albino cory's shouldnt cause issues if/when the pictus are put upstairs will they lol? i love my cory's!


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

LOL....

The cory's will be fine with the cats, both will eat pretty much the same diet, so thats a bonus.

You not thought about swapping the fish over ...community to the 3 foot and vice versa?

Not sure dimentions of the 3 foot but the angels really need a 17/18 inch depth tank to be fully happy.

mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

nah the 4ft isnt deep enough for angels it wouldnt be worth the effort switching everything. my mrs n daughter LOVE the comm upstairs of an evening, ill have to get a couple more piccys b/c its changed totally from the ones i initially posted some weeks ago!

the one ive got the angels in now is 15" but these guys are no bigger than 1.5" themselves, they look so lost and alone in the tank right now but i wont be adding anything else to it, apart from the pictus when i find a good priced pair which i like the look of lol.

the 3ft tank i have now will end up being upgraded but i think i should be ok for a couple of years purely due to how small my angels are. if it means i have to upgrade or rehome the 2 that are slightly larger than the othe 3 then its a case of having to isn't it  i dont want to but not gna let my fish die due to growth stunting.


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Yep, the apple snails are coldwater. : victory:


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> nah the 4ft isnt deep enough for angels it wouldnt be worth the effort switching everything. my mrs n daughter LOVE the comm upstairs of an evening, ill have to get a couple more piccys b/c its changed totally from the ones i initially posted some weeks ago!
> 
> the one ive got the angels in now is 15" but these guys are no bigger than 1.5" themselves, they look so lost and alone in the tank right now but i wont be adding anything else to it, apart from the pictus when i find a good priced pair which i like the look of lol.
> 
> the 3ft tank i have now will end up being upgraded but i think i should be ok for a couple of years purely due to how small my angels are. if it means i have to upgrade or rehome the 2 that are slightly larger than the othe 3 then its a case of having to isn't it  i dont want to but not gna let my fish die due to growth stunting.


Ah rite i get you ..... love the attitude you have m8 towards fish and keeping them , pitty everyone isnt the same when they are keeping fish.

Anyways you wont be disapointed in them and make sure you get pics up 

mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

yeah well hopefully im cool for a couple of years lol. after that i can always request Bday pressie tanks rofl.

Thanks for lettin me know bout the snails too Matt, a mate has fancy golides and wanted some snails to go in it.

Ill get some pictures up, my plec is amazing lol he is sooooooooo otiny right now its funny as! like i said my angels are already on this site, a page or two back "angels again" i think i called it lol. the setup hasnt changed since its just gta have plants in there now.

Mark, whose your local shop in our area? im running out of places that i goto and like buying from  Pets at home tried to sell me a plec as a bristlenose last weekend hahahaha. bloody egits! [email protected] 3 quid, tryed sellin as bristlenose for £8 or 9 or something silly lol. i only went in cuz a neighbour said they got good prices on foods etc atm.


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> yeah well hopefully im cool for a couple of years lol. after that i can always request Bday pressie tanks rofl.
> 
> Thanks for lettin me know bout the snails too Matt, a mate has fancy golides and wanted some snails to go in it.
> 
> ...


Thats [email protected] for you, the only place i can think that hires completley unknowlegable people lol.

I use quite a few places m8, coxwell aqautics is a good 1, shirley aqautics, A&D aqautics, hollybush, MA at stratford.. earlswood and shirley in the nottcutts garden centre but my fav has to be prestwood petzone .

I usually get most of my fish from private breeders though, i know there bred for pleasure and not only for profit... usually much better stock aswell and much healthier fish...... however, i do tend to travel hundreds of miles for the benefits lol

mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

lol yeah fair enough i guess hahaha.

i like notscutts, and use shirley, not heard of any of the others, are they local to my side of brum? gna have to ave words with the OH or i could just slap the 2 pictus in and leave it at tat hahahah hope she dunt notice xD

My neighbour just got a talking catty, what size they grow to? hes got a 2.5f but its like 25" deep, funny shaped


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> lol yeah fair enough i guess hahaha.
> 
> i like notscutts, and use shirley, not heard of any of the others, are they local to my side of brum? gna have to ave words with the OH or i could just slap the 2 pictus in and leave it at tat hahahah hope she dunt notice xD
> 
> My neighbour just got a talking catty, what size they grow to? hes got a 2.5f but its like 25" deep, funny shaped


 
Yeh they are local ish lol, A&D is oldbury, hollybush is junction 11 i think on the M6, MA in startford is bascially stratfor upon avon, MA in earlswood is about 10 min drive from shirley aquatics and prestwwod petzone is stourbridge way.

If you mean rapheal cats (AKA talking cats) then they get to about 8 inches, very boring ...inactive fish that will consume anythink it can fit in it's mouth.

Unfortunatley depth for catfish isnt really a thing needed, most catfish will dwell around the bottom and therefore need a bigger footprint than most other fish, a 2.5 foot isnt big enough for 1 but a 3-4 foot would be perfectly fine.

Mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

yer well i have advised him but he had already bought it lol. he hasnt added anything to his tank for over a year, b/c ive got all this goin on now hes thrown a couple more things in his tank too lol. hes got 2 adult angels and an adult plec but plec is only about 6". I cant really do much bout that except advise otherwise but anyways, he is a good lad and he does like his fish too. its a real nice tank but some of the fish are perhaps just not fully able to live in them.

Will let you know as and when i find the pictus n buy em, is prolly gna be from erdington aquatics though lol.


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)




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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

he's well nice marie. **** sake u got any furniture in your house ?!?!? lol u got like 100 tanks


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> yer well i have advised him but he had already bought it lol. he hasnt added anything to his tank for over a year, b/c ive got all this goin on now hes thrown a couple more things in his tank too lol. hes got 2 adult angels and an adult plec but plec is only about 6". I cant really do much bout that except advise otherwise but anyways, he is a good lad and he does like his fish too. its a real nice tank but some of the fish are perhaps just not fully able to live in them.
> 
> Will let you know as and when i find the pictus n buy em, is prolly gna be from erdington aquatics though lol.


Good luck on your search m8


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

my corys breed very often... i got babies mama!


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

a cushion on the floors all you need :lol2:

if the OH had his way all our floor would be a fish tank as he wants to turn the cellar into a huge fsh tank!! with glass floors!! :lol2:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

go for it! my mrs hates me mentioning water or fish, both because of our ****ed up bathroom and my psyco love of fish lol.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

thanks mark will let you know how i go. and gratz habu are they albinos or are what? i would like to hybrid the corys but i wont just incase i grow some 8ft monster that needs to eat half a cow a day and all the rest of it lol jokes! but i wont just bc i havent time to keep trying that stuff at the moment


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Frase said:


> thanks mark will let you know how i go. and gratz habu are they albinos or are what? i would like to hybrid the corys but i wont just incase i grow some 8ft monster that needs to eat half a cow a day and all the rest of it lol jokes! but i wont just bc i havent time to keep trying that stuff at the moment


 
just green cory's... i have a nice planted tank and they usually spawn after a decent water change... they begin doing that crazy swimming thing... then eggs are laid on the glass.... the other fish eat a ot but i always see new babies and others that are growing well...

... every now and then i see a tiny baby or two.... i may need to get rid of a few...


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

lol i've only 3 albinos and im not sure males/females or anything like that. i would think my tank is far too open and exposed for them to survive to be honest, 6 preg guppies too, i am lookin at gettin breding net but then gta find a place in one of my tanks to hold that :S


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

hmm all the pics of pictus catty's i am finding are looking SO different from the small fellas that my LFS has for sale (where i am buying them from)  i am just hoping they dont give me something different n it grows to be a tank buster....i will let you all know tomorrow when i pick them up 

If only mark had nothing to to all day but go and check a fish for me hahahaha since hes brum based he is singled out :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> hmm all the pics of pictus catty's i am finding are looking SO different from the small fellas that my LFS has for sale (where i am buying them from)  i am just hoping they dont give me something different n it grows to be a tank buster....i will let you all know tomorrow when i pick them up
> 
> If only mark had nothing to to all day but go and check a fish for me hahahaha since hes brum based he is singled out :Na_Na_Na_Na:


LOL, what do they actually look like?...... Just make sure they dont try sell you a pangasius cat, you will never have a tank big enough for one of these lol, no matter how many upgrades :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

well i'm off to get em today so i'll let you know. I'll have no issues with rowing over these peoples for my money back lol if they arent Pictus


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> well i'm off to get em today so i'll let you know. I'll have no issues with rowing over these peoples for my money back lol if they arent Pictus


 
Pimelodus pictus SHOULD DEFINATELY NOT BE KEPT ON THEIR OWN OR IN PAIRS!!!! 

They are naturally a shoaling species and need to be kept in small groups. As a result of this and the fact that they are very active you need a decent sized aquarium. A 3' tank (Assuming it's 12" wide) is too small for a shoal of these to thrive. You really would be better off giving them a miss. Though they don't grow huge they really do need lots of swimming space. A tank 12" wide won't give them the space they deserve. Have you thought about another more suitable species?

MJ


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

thats why i started this thread to ask peoples opinions on what would be more suitable. its 3 x 15 x 15 tank at the moment, these guys in the sholp are currently 1-1.5" in size.

I was going to get a pair as i was told a pair would have been ok within this thread if i can remember properly.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> thats why i started this thread to ask peoples opinions on what would be more suitable. its 3 x 15 x 15 tank at the moment, these guys in the sholp are currently 1-1.5" in size.
> 
> I was going to get a pair as i was told a pair would have been ok within this thread if i can remember properly.


You were told that. Unfortunately no shoaling fish should be kept singularly or as a pair. It's basically, cruel! Unfortunately like Oscars, red tailed catfish and goldfish these are one species that seem to suffer in the hobby due to them not being kept properly. I really would think about a more suitable species. Even fishbase classes them as "unsuitable for the home aquarium". And thats very rare for them to state that!


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

you got an alternatives to put forward though? like i said i am going to upgrade at some point in the future as its required for my angels and such, but i was thinking these guys being as small as they are at current it wouldnt be an issue for a little while.but really feel free to put up some other idea's


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

PS: way to shit on my parade /cry was lookin forward to these babies too!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> PS: way to shit on my parade /cry was lookin forward to these babies too!


 
lmao! Not looking to P155 on anyones bonfire, I'm really not. But I do have experience working in the trade and have seen fish keepers make serious mistakes hundreds of times before. And thus will try and steer them out of trouble if I can.

I really hate to see shoaling species kept on their own or in pairs. It really is cruel. And they won;t live as long as a result in all probability as you're placing them under uneccessary stress.

A tank measuring at least 4' long and 18" wide would be a much better home for them as they'll have the space to act naturally in a group. They look much better in a shoal anyway, wouldn't you agree?

Other suggestions depend on lots of things. What other tank mates do you have? What are your water conditions? Do you fancy having a crack at breeding them? Whats your budget etc?


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> You were told that. Unfortunately no shoaling fish should be kept singularly or as a pair. It's basically, cruel! Unfortunately like Oscars, red tailed catfish and goldfish these are one species that seem to suffer in the hobby due to them not being kept properly. I really would think about a more suitable species. Even fishbase classes them as "unsuitable for the home aquarium". And thats very rare for them to state that!


No your quite right, however experience and alot of expereince of keeping these fish as both a pair and in groups with no visual differnce in behaviour is good enough for me, i did actually state that it would be better in groups of 3-5 earlier and be better off with a 4 foot tank, however if the OP was adament he wanted them, then it was better to get 2 for the size tank than over stock and get more (You have to think on it both ways im afraid).

I personally would have gone with cory's myself anyways but... that didnt seem an option.

Either way from personal experience you should be fine with 2 and they will be happy, but yes of course any shoaling fish should be kept in larger groups.

Mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

low budget, breeding isnt a requirement, if it happens woop woop if not no tear shed on spilled milk.

its 3 x 15 x 15 tank as said, its actually on this site, go back a page or 2 and ull see my thread angels again or somert like that.

Got 5 angels in it which are still small at the moment, and now has 1 algae eater and a baby pleco in it (pleco is 1.5" i measure him on glass lnight hehe)

Ive got my 4ft tank upstairs which CURRENTLY is a comm tank but once my glows and neons die im just gna be putting some of the slightly largert fish like dwarf gouramis n stuff in it. these would be ok with the pictus? as the pictus wont grow to a size where the dwarfs are gna be dinnertime? Because if so then they can have the 4ft tank lol when they get big enough to require it.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

lol mark, i wasnt adamanet about it, if you read my OP i was asking for opinions or alternatives, i just want something slightly more eye catching than cory'sive got some of them in my comm tank already.

Like i said, im not in for hurting fish or givin unsatisfactory conditions, thus the reason i ask before i buy =)


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

pictus get the ich really easily... got to be careful with them...


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jakies13 said:


> No your quite right, however experience and alot of expereince of keeping these fish as both a pair and in groups with no visual differnce in behaviour is good enough for me, i did actually state that it would be better in groups of 3-5 earlier and be better off with a 4 foot tank, however if the OP was adament he wanted them, then it was better to get 2 for the size tank than over stock and get more (You have to think on it both ways im afraid).


It may be good enough for you Mark. It's also good enough for some LFS to sell them this way as they're after a sale. I have to disagree with you though. I believe that if you can't keep a fish (Or any other animal for that matter) in conditions that are not ideal, then leave them be and keep something more suitable. 




jakies13 said:


> I personally would have gone with cory's myself anyways but... that didnt seem an option.
> 
> Either way from personal experience you should be fine with 2 and they will be happy, but yes of course any shoaling fish should be kept in larger groups.
> 
> Mark


 
Corries would be a much better option. They're attractive, readily available, affordable and easy to keep. Most species are very easy to spawn if you fancy having a crack at that one day too. Most just need conditoning and a drop in water temp to stimulate spawning. I'm not sure how you can claim 2 fish "will be happy" though. If you know they're better in groups and a larger tank, why give them a second rate home in the first place?

MJ


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

aww come on now lets not flex out here lol.

Let me put it like this:

Currently 3ft x 15 x 15 tank. housing 5 baby angels, 1 baby pleco.

I want to get 1 or 2 (maybe 3 at a push) more perculiar fish that arent going to need a larger tank within 6 months. I already have a 4ft tank which eventually these fish can enter should they require it. I am just looking for something a bit more wilkd-like. I like cories but i would just prefer to have something a bit more monstery looking if you see where i am coming from.

Does this help you guys assist me in what to buy? Thats all 

like i said, never was determined, was just asking about the pictus. if they were an option etc. =)


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> lol mark, i wasnt adamanet about it, if you read my OP i was asking for opinions or alternatives, i just want something slightly more eye catching than cory'sive got some of them in my comm tank already.
> 
> Like i said, im not in for hurting fish or givin unsatisfactory conditions, thus the reason i ask before i buy =)


No m8 not really what i ment lol, adament that you like them, you said a catfish but not to get to large, well tbh there are loads but IMO most will get to big, cory's the exception, however cory's are one that need to be kept in a least 5 no matter what to really see natural behaviour and make and give the the confindence to actually explore, pims arent like that, yes they do like company, but if you have kept them for a long time, they also do there own thing away from an actual "shoal" most of the time making it a less not such a rwequired thing.

Trust me i wouldnt have said it was ok if i truley thought it wouldnt be, Weve talked through PM's so you know my stance on tanks to small and inadiquate conditions, however i dont feel you getting 2 for a 3 foot tank would fall into that catorgory.

I understand where MJ75 is coming from when he said he has worked in the trade, however working in the trade and seeing what silly people do with keeping fish and then having someone with actual experience keep them, then i would always go for expereince over the actually 'claimed' way fish are ment to be kept.

You will be fine with 2 and you will be fine with 2 in that size tank, but thats the ultimate word... FINE!!!! yes but ultimately perfect no, but i doubt it would have any detremental effects on the fishes health nor quality of life to house them as you were originally told 

Mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

yeha mark sorry that come across like i was bitching lkol. Yeah i know we both know where we stand in regards to thoughts on setups etc.

could you keep 3 of these for a while in the 3ft tank and then move 3 to a 4ft tank when they get larger? if not then its not a problem i'll have a think bout what ive got n can cater for etc. like i said earlier, im not here to just argue with what people say against my choice's. im asking for advice before i make my choice


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jakies13 said:


> I understand where MJ75 is coming from when he said he has worked in the trade, however working in the trade and seeing what silly people do with keeping fish and then having someone with actual experience keep them, then i would always go for expereince over the actually 'claimed' way fish are ment to be kept.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark


Mark, I have kept them. For many years actually. Having previously had my own fishroom I've been lucky enough to observe many species as an aquarist. Not as someone working in the trade. And to be fair, you've made a classic mistake here. Saying that one fish ventures off to do it's own thing so they don't shoal all of the time.

You need to understand that their natural habitat gives them an area of space incomparible with your home aquarium. The fish would still be shoaling within a few feet of each other in the wild so they're not really doing their own thing so to speak. They should be kept in group a fact that you have acknowledged, but shoaling does not mean they have to be next to one another. A shoal can be a group of fish several feet away from one another. So to suggest they are also solitary on occasion is incorrect.

MJ


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

Ok, so is there anything that i could add to this tank that could be suitable for it. I would just like something that looks more perculiar, such as cattys or something, since pictus seem to be out the question (noone answered whether 3 is more acceptable and feasible ^^


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Mark, I have kept them. For many years actually. Having previously had my own fishroom I've been lucky enough to observe many species as an aquarist. Not as someone working in the trade. And to be fair, you've made a classic mistake here. Saying that one fish ventures off to do it's own thing so they don't shoal all of the time.
> 
> You need to understand that their natural habitat gives them an area of space incomparible with your home aquarium. The fish would still be shoaling within a few feet of each other in the wild so they're not really doing their own thing so to speak. They should be kept in group a fact that you have acknowledged, but shoaling does not mean they have to be next to one another. A shoal can be a group of fish several feet away from one another. So to suggest they are also solitary on occasion is incorrect.
> 
> MJ


 
LOL, i just love debate , but i never metioned anythink about shoaling been inches or even feet together.. i mearly mentioned that they arnt that active towards each other in a home aqaurium like they would be in the wild, numbers in the wild are complelty different ... yes i grant you with what your saying however, most fish usually shoal in the wild becasue numbers equate to safty, home aqauria doesnt have this problem and trust me that really does make a difference.... hence they will never show full natural natural behaviour no matter what size tank they have.

Yes of course any 'group' fish is better in just that 'a group', however becasue you keep two it doesnt mean the quality of life is any different nor shoten it, if you have any scientific evidence to prove otherwise, i will gladly read it and eat my own hand if im wrong 

Im all up for giving fish they best means and the best conditions properly, but that can have so many levels, we 'hobbyist' will never be able to give a fish the best environment compared to the actual wild, doesnt mean that the fish will suffer becasue of it.

Fras, yes getting 3 and then moving would be fine, infact if thats the case you caould probably get away for 4, but please be under no impression that keeping to will shorten there life or infact make them unhappy, happier in bigger groups ..YES!!!, but 2 wouldnt nessersary mean unhappy.


MJ, im not at all trying to claim your wrong, nor am i saying im right, however each indiviual has there own outlook on fish and what needs are a must to keep them.

Im very much a catfish/plec person and ive kept various species over a long long period of time, plecs granted more so but still, ive kept alot and trust me i wouldnt ever suggest a fish be kept in unsuitable conditions if i thought they would be 
Mark


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

i dunt wna say this because i might seem like im just believing wut i want to hear, but i was thinkin same line as Mark, we as hobbysts cant provide them with wild conditions, it isnt feasibly possible. in the same sense im debating with myself as i wouldnt ever want to keep a fsh in poor conditions. I'm currently also drooling over that empty juwel 180 lolz. ; ;


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Frase said:


> i dunt wna say this because i might seem like im just believing wut i want to hear, but i was thinkin same line as Mark, we as hobbysts cant provide them with wild conditions, it isnt feasibly possible. in the same sense im debating with myself as i wouldnt ever want to keep a fsh in poor conditions. I'm currently also drooling over that empty juwel 180 lolz. ; ;


LOL, 180 would be perfect either way ..... but as i said I personally think you will be fine with 2, other will agree other will not, you will never get a full understood answer to right and wrong when keeping fish in conditions that can never be like the wild 

good luck with what you chose either way 

Mark


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

in my opinion a 3ft tank and a 4ft tank is not huge in difference infact most times with the size tanks commonly sold in the uk a 3ft tank often has more volume and width than a 4ft, to say you cant keep them in a 3ft but you can have a group of them in a 4ft is daft really.
If they dont have the room they need in a 3ft an extra 12 inches wont make any difference.
They are very active and will use all the space in a tank not just stick to the floor area and for a 5" fish 3ft is plenty.
I think they are a great choice of fish for this guys tank and a refreshing change from a boring old common plec that most people try and squeeze into a 3ft.
As I said in a past post I had 4 in a 3ft 55g tank and they all grew to full size was active all day every day and lived long healthy lifes


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i still haven't gotten used to the british way of noting tanks... 3 foot.... 4 foot... 

... as you were, carry on.:whistling2::lol2:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

I guess you just won't find people in the game who agree on situations like this lol. It is one of those things that peoples personel experience bats against books and writing but i dunno, thank you to all of you guys for your input, its got me thinking at the moment 

I will let you know with piccys by the morning hopefully. lol.


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

HABU said:


> i still haven't gotten used to the british way of noting tanks... 3 foot.... 4 foot...
> 
> ... as you were, carry on.:whistling2::lol2:


:lol2: it is a bit mad aint it , I think you guys over the sea have a better choice of tanks also, We are kind of limited to the jewel range or standard sized all glass tanks, Anything worth having we have to get custom made


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

rum&coke said:


> in my opinion a 3ft tank and a 4ft tank is not huge in difference infact most times with the size tanks commonly sold in the uk a 3ft tank often has more volume and width than a 4ft, to say you cant keep them in a 3ft but you can have a group of them in a 4ft is daft really.
> If they dont have the room they need in a 3ft an extra 12 inches wont make any difference.
> They are very active and will use all the space in a tank not just stick to the floor area and for a 5" fish 3ft is plenty.
> I think they are a great choice of fish for this guys tank and a refreshing change from a boring old common plec that most people try and squeeze into a 3ft.
> As I said in a past post I had 4 in a 3ft 55g tank and they all grew to full size was active all day every day and lived long healthy lifes


A 5" fish in a 3' tank is plenty? Complete bull I'm afraid. It depends on lots more factors than it's actual size. Just because your fish may survive is hardly ethical is it?

And I dunno where the extra inches won't make any differnce came from (Your partner perhaps  ) but thats bull too. More water equals more stable water conditions, and potentially better water quality. 3' tanks are popular because that what most people can afford or have space for. It has nothing to do with the fishes welfare or suitability.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

rum&coke said:


> :lol2: it is a bit mad aint it , I think you guys over the sea have a better choice of tanks also, We are kind of limited to the jewel range or standard sized all glass tanks, Anything worth having we have to get custom made


Aquarium dimensions - reference
we just go by volume... and our sizes are standardized... a 4 foot tank could hold either 55 or 75 gallons... a big difference...

... but i'm getting the hang of how you guys do business!:2thumb:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> A 5" fish in a 3' tank is plenty? Complete bull I'm afraid. It depends on lots more factors than it's actual size. Just because your fish may survive is hardly ethical is it?
> 
> And I dunno where the extra inches won't make any differnce came from (Your partner perhaps  ) but thats bull too. More water equals more stable water conditions, and potentially better water quality. 3' tanks are popular because that what most people can afford or have space for. It has nothing to do with the fishes welfare or suitability.


 
my 3 foot tank holds 65 u.s. gallons...


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

See habu!?!?! Old dogs can learn new tricks my friend! keep it up :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

HABU said:


> my 3 foot tank holds 65 u.s. gallons...


Yeah, but your cack to drive cars can only do 11 miles to 65 gallons too. : victory:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Frase said:


> See habu!?!?! Old dogs can learn new tricks my friend! keep it up :Na_Na_Na_Na:












i'm a quick learner!!:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> Yeah, but your cack to drive cars can only do 11 miles to 65 gallons too. : victory:


 
alright... you lost me there...: victory:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

love it mate!:lol2:

You must have every pic available at yer bloody finger tips! Habu akak Cledus the trailerpark man youve earnt this:

:no1:


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> A 5" fish in a 3' tank is plenty? Complete bull I'm afraid. It depends on lots more factors than it's actual size. Just because your fish may survive is hardly ethical is it?
> 
> And I dunno where the extra inches won't make any differnce came from (Your partner perhaps  ) but thats bull too. More water equals more stable water conditions, and potentially better water quality. 3' tanks are popular because that what most people can afford or have space for. It has nothing to do with the fishes welfare or suitability.


Oh I see your one of them that gets all stressed when a person has a difference of opinion, Good thing I'm not like that or I would point out the fact your mother said my extra inches was more satisfying than yours: victory:

would like to point out a few things in your post.

you say "more water equals more stable water conditions and better water quality"

yes thats true and if we was talking about a big fish in a 3ft tank I would say you have a very good point, but we are talking about a 5" fish hear and a small group of them, a small group of pictus are not gonna over stock his tank.

I really fail to see how keeping a group of fish that wont out grow the tank or over stock the tank can be seen as unethical, maybe you could point out how this is the case?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

rum&coke said:


> Oh I see your one of them that gets all stressed when a person has a difference of opinion, Good thing I'm not like that or I would point out the fact your mother said my extra inches was more satisfying than yours: victory:
> 
> would like to point out a few things in your post.
> 
> ...


 
I doubt it fella, she's been dead for the last 10 years. 

Keeping a highly active fish in a tiny 3' tank is uethical. Keeping a group of highly active fish in a tiny 3' tank is even more unethical. 

Say that a larger tank won't make any difference is, well daft to be honest. The pictus cats won't be the only tank inhabitants either. He suggested he has angels and a plec, all fish that will grow and put further strain on the filtration making a larger tank even more desirable. You need to see the big picture.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

MJ u also need to read other posts within the thread, if you had you would see that im already fully aware that an upgrade needs to be in place, but it isnt required right this second. i do have a good read and ask opinions BEFORE i purchase, you can ask esfa about that, i bothered that poor kid for weeks prior to getting anything fishy.

Upgrading tank is going to happen, but not until it needs to


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> until it needs to


It will for sure. Especially if your angels pair off. Good luck.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

thanks it isnt planned but if they do get going than thats another new exciting bit of stuff for me to deal with. Like i said tho, i am prepared for upgrades, i also have other people that are going to be buying tanks within my family now theyve seen how easy tropical arre to keep as what they thought might be involved (i guess they always thought it would be like marine or somert). So should anything happen i can always rehome one or two of any of my fish to them so long as their tanks are adequate. and since my brother and others like things BIG they aint gna go buyin any nano's or out like that. lol


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> thanks it isnt planned .....


I'm sure it's not fella. But they'll do what comes naturally once grown on and well cared for.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

well should it occur i wud actually be pretty thrilled. I'd just rehome them to people or something. i didnt pay for the babies so if it comes then why not pass them to people who want more and no how to care for them.


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> I doubt it fella, she's been dead for the last 10 years.
> 
> Keeping a highly active fish in a tiny 3' tank is uethical. Keeping a group of highly active fish in a tiny 3' tank is even more unethical.
> 
> Say that a larger tank won't make any difference is, well daft to be honest. The pictus cats won't be the only tank inhabitants either. He suggested he has angels and a plec, all fish that will grow and put further strain on the filtration making a larger tank even more desirable. You need to see the big picture.


 
So all the people keeping highly active tetras and barbs in 3ft tanks are unethical ???? 
most of them grow to 3 to 4" and are more active and kept in much higer numbers.
Or all the people with muba set ups are unethical keeping small groups of 5 to 6" active and territorial cichlids in 3ft tanks????

I do get what you mean by saying the larger tank will make a difference, But in most cases where the extra water quality is a factor is when keeping large fish, for example 9" fish would feel the difference in a 4ft and 3ft tank as the water quality would be a important factor.
As you are talking about swimming space for an active fish then the extra length of the tank is only 12" and will hardly make a difference so by going by your lodgic if a 3ft tank is too small so is a 4ft, that was my point and why I said it was daft to say that.
I see the big picture just fine thank and not only base what I said on things I have read about these fish but also experience of keeping them.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

rum&coke said:


> So all the people keeping highly active tetras and barbs in 3ft tanks are unethical ????
> most of them grow to 3 to 4" and are more active and kept in much higer numbers.
> Or all the people with muba set ups are unethical keeping small groups of 5 to 6" active and territorial cichlids in 3ft tanks????
> 
> ...


I'm struggling to see any logic I'm afraid. You can't lump all barbs and tetras together! A shoal of neons would be fine in a 3 footer. But larger barbs need bigger tanks yes. FFS Some barbs grow to 5' in lengh, so yes keeping a shoal of Isok barbs (You can google Probarbus Jullieni later) in a 3 footer is unethical. Along with loads of other larger species of barb and tetra. Hope that answers your question.

When choosing a tank size you need to take lots of factors into account. Not just swimming space as you imply. But also water quality (Remember some fish are far more sensitive to poor water quality than others) and their territorial requirements. Cichlids are a good example of this. They may have what you describe as enough "swimming space" but also require enough room to hold their territory. Shoehorning in too many fish will result in fighting etc. So, in many cases the extra 12" of space can and willmean the difference between life and death of some fish. If the posters angels pair off and breed one day, then this will be relevant to his tank. 

Depending on what species of "plec" he has, this will also be relevant as it may well outgrow a 3 footer.


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

it will outgrow my 3ft tank, but then my upgrade isnt going to be another 3ft lol. so no real issue with it for now.


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> I'm struggling to see any logic I'm afraid. You can't lump all barbs and tetras together! A shoal of neons would be fine in a 3 footer. But larger barbs need bigger tanks yes. FFS Some barbs grow to 5' in lengh, so yes keeping a shoal of Isok barbs (You can google Probarbus Jullieni later) in a 3 footer is unethical. Along with loads of other larger species of barb and tetra. Hope that answers your question.
> 
> When choosing a tank size you need to take lots of factors into account. Not just swimming space as you imply. But also water quality (Remember some fish are far more sensitive to poor water quality than others) and their territorial requirements. Cichlids are a good example of this. They may have what you describe as enough "swimming space" but also require enough room to hold their territory. Shoehorning in too many fish will result in fighting etc. So, in many cases the extra 12" of space can and willmean the difference between life and death of some fish. If the posters angels pair off and breed one day, then this will be relevant to his tank.
> 
> Depending on what species of "plec" he has, this will also be relevant as it may well outgrow a 3 footer.


well now your just twisting what i say around to suit yourself, Im not even gonna respond to any of it as dont wanna see another great thread go down in flames, would be happy to do the whole who knows more thing via pm is you like.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

rum&coke said:


> well now your just twisting what i say around to suit yourself, Im not even gonna respond to any of it as dont wanna see another great thread go down in flames, would be happy to do the whole who knows more thing via pm is you like.


You can PM me and tell me how knowledgable you are if you want. :2thumb:

I've not twisted anything yousaid. Just identified a few flaws in your argument. I actually think you were trying to twist what I'd posted so am surprised at your comments. But like you, don't really see the point in continueing. At the end of the day most people will keep what they want, how they want, sometimes deluding themselves into thinking they're alive and so all must be OK. Every person keeping a goldfish in a bowl falls into this category after all......... So it's pointless continueing, but by all means tell me how much of an expert you are.

Best

MJ


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

why has this thread gone from someone asking a honest questions to people argueing and bitching like little school kids? honestly!!!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

mariekni said:


> why has this thread gone from someone asking a honest questions to people argueing and bitching like little school kids? honestly!!!


 
Don't confuse bitching with debate hun.


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

MJ75 said:


> Don't confuse bitching with debate hun.


either way it isnt called for :devil:


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> Don't confuse bitching with debate hun.


Anyone got a pin?
Someone's head needs deflating.


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

Esfa said:


> Anyone got a pin?
> Someone's head needs deflating.


i have more than a pin if you want to borrow it!


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

mariekni said:


> i have more than a pin if you want to borrow it!


Sounds good to me! : victory:


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## Frase (Jul 13, 2009)

hold on just a daned down second! we dont use pins i this here parts of the forumz! we uses ourz pitchforkz! Cledus, Billy-bo junior, trailer gang....ready yourz forkz we goin a huntin todayz!:devil::devil:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frase said:


> hold on just a daned down second! we dont use pins i this here parts of the forumz! we uses ourz pitchforkz! Cledus, Billy-bo junior, trailer gang....ready yourz forkz we goin a huntin todayz!:devil::devil:


Hunting eh? I use my Tikka T3 for hunting boy! Bring it on with yer pitchforkz.... :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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