# Legalities of selling puppies in pet shops?



## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

Can anybody run me through this, a pet shop by me constantly has puppies for sale, at the moment they have 3 Lhasa apso x JRT pups looking barley old enough to be without mum and a staffie girl who is very skinny for a staff puppy. I actually cried in there it was so awful they are in little pens not let out to exercise or anything. 

I would like to know if this is legal and how would I go about reporting this. I know one of the 5 freedoms is to be able to exhibit natural behaviours and these enclosures do not allow this.

They also had kittens in modified vivarium's, with hardly enough space for one kitten let alone the 5 in each cage!

I'm disgusted that people are still allowed to do this so would appreciate any advice that I can get.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

my local petshop also has puppies, 3-4 young rotties and 2 staffs

dont know if its legal or not


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> my local petshop also has puppies, 3-4 young rotties and 2 staffs
> 
> dont know if its legal or not


Its so sad, I was petting the staff girl over the walls of the cage and 
every time I went to walk away she cried, I was in there for 45 mins petting her and sobbing and even though she was whimpering nobody came out to check her. I am so upset puppies and kittens are not animals that should be caged let alone being sold in a pet shop with no proper socialisation skills.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nic123100 said:


> Its so sad, I was petting the staff girl over the walls of the cage and
> every time I went to walk away she cried, I was in there for 45 mins petting her and sobbing and even though she was whimpering nobody came out to check her. I am so upset puppies and kittens are not animals that should be caged let alone being sold in a pet shop with no proper socialisation skills.


Yeah but thats how they make there money by not wanting to go. I have to admit, i supply my local pet shop with mice, rats, frozen food ect... so i aint going to complain but if i saw something very wrong then id just call the council.

Its how the pet shops work im afraid :bash:


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> Yeah but thats how they make there money by not wanting to go. I have to admit, i supply my local pet shop with mice, rats, frozen food ect... so i aint going to complain but if i saw something very wrong then id just call the council.
> 
> Its how the pet shops work im afraid :bash:


I'm trying to find out how to report them, the state that poor little girl was i is awful, and the other pups has nothing in there apart from newspaper flooring and a water bowl, no bed no shelter the were huddled together in the corner. I've never seen puppies look so frightened


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nic123100 said:


> I'm trying to find out how to report them, the state that poor little girl was i is awful, and the other pups has nothing in there apart from newspaper flooring and a water bowl, no bed no shelter the were huddled together in the corner. I've never seen puppies look so frightened


 
All sounds good to me apart from the bed bit.

Newspaper is what enyone would use with pups pooing all the time, water bowl is good. As with the bed. Well the pups might have ripped up the bed the previous night.

you wont win mate, its not cruelty. Not having a bad isnt cruel. yeah they should have one but its not against the law.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> All sounds good to me apart from the bed bit.
> 
> Newspaper is what enyone would use with pups pooing all the time, water bowl is good. As with the bed. Well the pups might have ripped up the bed the previous night.
> 
> you wont win mate, *its not cruelty*. Not having a bad isnt cruel. yeah they should have one but its not against the law.


But if they are distressed and frightened then it becomes cruelty. If they ripped up a bed, add a plastic one. Add toys so that they can act like a dog should.

They are disobeying 2 main freedoms from the animal welfare act
The freedom to exhibit natural behaviours (they can't do this as they are too frightened to move and have nothing to stimulate them)
The freedom to be free from pain, suffering and disease (if they are distressed and nothing is being done about it then its suffering in my eyes)

Just seems that people that cant be bothered to give puppies a bed a a few toys when they sell them in the shop should not even own animal themselves let alone sell them.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

the license stating what animals and how many they are allowed to keep of each should be displayed in the shop.If they are keeping animals that are not on the license report them to the council.If it's an animal welfare issue report them to the RSPCA who may not be great in many instances but do like to target shops which sell puppies and kittens,which they are opposed to.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

I'll try pop in tomorrow and look for their license, the welfare is awful as I stated above these pups did not even have a bed or an enrichment they were huddled in a corner scared. Going to give the RSPCA a ring, even if they can just get the pups some beds in there so that they are comfortable would be an improvement. 

Trouble is people keep buying them so they keep getting them in. They have a constant supply so it wouldn't surprise me if the dogs care coming from a puppy farm.


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

You need to phone your local council and ask to be put through to the department that deals with pet shop licencing.

Explain that you are making a formal complaint about the pet shop in question and be sure you give them a detailed description of what you have seen and how this violates the Animal Welfare Act (the law based on the 5 freedoms). When you have given your information, make sure you ask what the council's protocol for dealing with these complaints is - they should be able to tell you that an inspection will take place, preferably within 24 hours, by a veterinary surgeon or other suitably qualified person. Make sure you take the name and contact number of the person who will deal with the complaint, so that you can call them directly again in a couple of days time to see what has been done. If this person fails to respond appropriately or 'fobs off' your complaint with excuses, you can then go over their head and complain to their line manager.


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## Tillies reptile rescue (Aug 22, 2009)

The rspca wont do a thing, aslong as they have food and water....your best bet is the council as they control licences and are the only ones who have the power to take them away, ring the council first thing monday, then ring back a few days later to see whats happened, most councils are pretty good, but some need to be pestered abit to go out and get something done so ring a few times if you dont hear anything.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

9Red said:


> You need to phone your local council and ask to be put through to the department that deals with pet shop licencing.
> 
> Explain that you are making a formal complaint about the pet shop in question and be sure you give them a detailed description of what you have seen and how this violates the Animal Welfare Act (the law based on the 5 freedoms). When you have given your information, make sure you ask what the council's protocol for dealing with these complaints is - they should be able to tell you that an inspection will take place, preferably within 24 hours, by a veterinary surgeon or other suitably qualified person. Make sure you take the name and contact number of the person who will deal with the complaint, so that you can call them directly again in a couple of days time to see what has been done. If this person fails to respond appropriately or 'fobs off' your complaint with excuses, you can then go over their head and complain to their line manager.





Tillies reptile rescue said:


> The rspca wont do a thing, aslong as they have food and water....your best bet is the council as they control licences and are the only ones who have the power to take them away, ring the council first thing monday, then ring back a few days later to see whats happened, most councils are pretty good, but some need to be pestered abit to go out and get something done so ring a few times if you dont hear anything.


Right have got the number for the local authority, so am going to ring them. Have also phoned RSPCA just in case they can do anything. Just hope these pups are okay, hopefully something will be done to sort this shop out, fingers crossed.


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

in addition to everything everyone else has said.. you need to provide shelter for the animals.. they had nowhere to get away fron the public eye.. that causes stress


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nic123100 said:


> But if they are distressed and frightened then it becomes cruelty. If they ripped up a bed, add a plastic one. Add toys so that they can act like a dog should.
> 
> They are disobeying 2 main freedoms from the animal welfare act
> The freedom to exhibit natural behaviours (they can't do this as they are too frightened to move and have nothing to stimulate them)
> ...


Pain ? Please exsplain 

Fair enough, id contact who you feel too although i dont think that much can be done, id love to be proved wrong  

Go for it and get that pet shop sorted out :no1:


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> Pain ? Please exsplain
> 
> Fair enough, id contact who you feel too although i dont think that much can be done, id love to be proved wrong
> 
> Go for it and get that pet shop sorted out :no1:


I didn't mean pain although I may not of made that clear, they should be allowed freedom from pain suffering and disease, of course these can be any of the 3. Because they were frightened and distressed (huddled in a corner, back ends trembling) which can be classed as suffering, especially as nothing was done about this. 

I've contacted who I need to and it is being dealt with, even if it makes them provide the pups with a shelter (box filled with blankets if a bed is too much hard work for them) so they take themselves away from view if they need to be would be a big improvement.


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

southpython said:


> Pain ? Please exsplain
> 
> Fair enough, id contact who you feel too although i dont think that much can be done, id love to be proved wrong
> 
> Go for it and get that pet shop sorted out :no1:



they didnt say the puppies where in pain just that that is what the freedom is.. 

there are 5 freedoms which everyone must obide by now. and being distressed is the point the poster was making.

here they are for anyone wh didnt know:
1 Freedom from hunger and thirst –
by providing fresh water and the right type
and amount of food to keep them fit.
2 Freedom from discomfort –
by making sure that animals have the right
type of environment *including shelter and*
*somewhere comfortable to rest.*
3 Freedom from pain, injury and disease –
by preventing them from getting ill or injured and by
making sure animals are diagnosed and treated
rapidly if they do.
4 Freedom to behave normally –
by making sure animals have enough space,
proper facilities and the company of other
animals of their own kind.
5 Freedom from fear and distress –
*by making sure their conditions and
treatment avoid mental suffering.*


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

fern said:


> in addition to everything everyone else has said.. you need to provide shelter for the animals.. they had nowhere to get away fron the public eye.. that causes stress


This is one of the things that upset me, they were huddled in a corner with their back ends trembling, as far as I'm aware the Animal Welfare Act states that animals need to be provided with what they need to be happy, healthy and have a good well being, and not providing shelter for puppies that are so young that have been taken away from their mother is not providing them with what the need


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

fern said:


> they didnt say the puppies where in pain just that that is what the freedom is..
> 
> there are 5 freedoms which everyone must obide by now. and being distressed is the point the poster was making


Thank you  was worried I wasn't making my point very clear (I blame the upset from seeing these poor little darlings in such a state)

But as said it's being dealt with, I just want these puppies to be given what the deserve. I doubt the shop will be stopped from selling puppies as its always the way but they should at least be made to provide the essentials.


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

its quite alright, i understood fully lol. 

could be smething to do with the months f learning the 5 freedoms off by heart at college that did it. edited the earlier post to include the freedoms  xx


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nah it wasnt you, the heat im my reptile room is making me even more dumb than i am lol

I understand now, well the clearly dont have what they should from what you said.

Good luck sorting them out : victory:


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

fern said:


> its quite alright, i understood fully lol.
> 
> could be smething to do with the months f learning the 5 freedoms off by heart at college that did it. edited the earlier post to include the freedoms  xx


I know the feeling, I'm doing animal science at college and the five freedoms are drummed into you so that you can repeat the whole act without reference. However it's never a bad thing to know something like that. :2thumb:

I'm just hoping that the puppies are going to get what they need. While in there a little girl asked her mother for one to which she replied 'not now but we'll ask when they will have some more in' then headed off to ask :bash: talk about giving the shop more reason to keep getting puppies in


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> Nah it wasnt you, the heat im my reptile room is making me even more dumb than i am lol
> 
> I understand now, well the clearly dont have what they should from what you said.
> 
> Good luck sorting them out : victory:


Haha the heat everywhere is making me barmy  got a 3 fans going in the animal room 

I will update when they get back to me, if they don't within a week I'll be hounding them haha :no1:


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

did you get chance to go back in the shop and see the license?


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nic123100 said:


> Haha the heat everywhere is making me barmy  got a 3 fans going in the animal room
> 
> I will update when they get back to me, if they don't within a week I'll be hounding them haha :no1:


Sadly i dont think your heat is the same as mine, i have been sitting in 99.4f!

Match that ? Nope ? didnt think so lol.

Too many snakes in one room. I had to turn off all the heatmats and room heaters. Lucky i had no problems


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

southpython said:


> Sadly i dont think your heat is the same as mine, i have been sitting in 99.4f!
> 
> Match that ? Nope ? didnt think so lol.
> 
> Too many snakes in one room. I had to turn off all the heatmats and room heaters. Lucky i had no problems


Haha think you win , hardly any of my heat sources have come on today haha least it saves on the leccy


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

teshu said:


> did you get chance to go back in the shop and see the license?


I'm going to pop there tomorrow if I can't see it displayed should I ask to see it?


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

apparently it's public information and can be looked at on line although the licence should be displayed in the shop for all to see.I came across this based on the area you live in whilst having a look

*Pet Shops* (puppyalert)
Pets Inparticular, *Essex*. Peoplespets, Beds (recently applied for a *pet shop* *licence*). Puppies World, Chadwell Heath, shop now closed but owner is operating *...*
sites.google.com/site/puppyalert/petshops - 44k - cached - related


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Nic123100 said:


> Haha think you win , hardly any of my heat sources have come on today haha least it saves on the leccy


 
IM DIEING HERE! lol too hot lol


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

sarahc said:


> apparently it's public information and can be looked at on line although the licence should be displayed in the shop for all to see.I came across this based on the area you live in whilst having a look
> 
> *Pet Shops* (puppyalert)
> Pets Inparticular, *Essex*. Peoplespets, Beds (recently applied for a *pet shop* *licence*). Puppies World, Chadwell Heath, shop now closed but owner is operating *...*
> sites.google.com/site/puppyalert/petshops - 44k - cached - related


I cannot see the shop name on that list, will be popping there at some point to ask to see their license. 



southpython said:


> IM DIEING HERE! lol too hot lol


Haha we had a HUGE storm last night and things have cooled down nicely now  god knows how long it will last though lol


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

as far as i know, the license should be on display. 
i was just thinking because if they're not licensed to sell puppies, then you can tell the council. don't know what the 'punishment' would be though.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

Well an update but not a very good one, I went in there and pups were still in the same condition, when I asked the boy working there about the license he looked at me totally clueless and told me to pop back tuesday when the owner was in :bash:

However I did manage to get a sneaky picture of the puppies so that even if they sell them while my complaints going through I can show evidence.

So not a very good update but an update all the less


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## MissCat (Mar 9, 2009)

Wow, I didn't think it was even legal to sell puppies and kittens in pet shops anymore.
I remember when I was little, my local used to have loads in little cages. Even when I was in france the local pet shop had cages and cages of puppies stacked up everywhere


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

MissCat said:


> Wow, I didn't think it was even legal to sell puppies and kittens in pet shops anymore.
> I remember when I was little, my local used to have loads in little cages. Even when I was in france the local pet shop had cages and cages of puppies stacked up everywhere


I didn't think it was  to me dogs and cats should never be caged animals unless (in dogs) they are crate trained but that's very different. 

Poor poor puppies they all looked so scared


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Ok from what I remember when I used to work in a pet shop a few tears ago that sold puppies and kittens there are supposed to be a back of store area for the puppies etc to be kept in at night. THey are also supposed to have an outdoor area to exercise in, and where kittens are concerned to play in, I beleive the law was changed to say they couldn be left on premises over night unless they had suitable enclosures for normal behaviour once store was closed. Not sure what the la is now though.
The pet shop i worked in had a huge room with long enclosures that had toys and beds in for the kittens and puppies and they were all socialised each day with shop staff and had food and water at all times.It sounds like this store is failing these babies badly and they need to be reprted to the local authority but as said before the chances of them doing anything are slim


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

sammy1969 said:


> Ok from what I remember when I used to work in a pet shop a few tears ago that sold puppies and kittens there are supposed to be a back of store area for the puppies etc to be kept in at night. THey are also supposed to have an outdoor area to exercise in, and where kittens are concerned to play in, I beleive the law was changed to say they couldn be left on premises over night unless they had suitable enclosures for normal behaviour once store was closed. Not sure what the la is now though.
> The pet shop i worked in had a huge room with long enclosures that had toys and beds in for the kittens and puppies and they were all socialised each day with shop staff and had food and water at all times.It sounds like this store is failing these babies badly and they need to be reprted to the local authority but as said before the chances of them doing anything are slim


See these dogs are apparently left in the shop over night in little pens, they do not come out of these pens and there isnt any part of the shop set out for them to play in. It's so sad that we are allowed to do this to animals really  pet shops especially should be setting an example for future animal owners but not this shop deffinatly is not. 

I've reported it but I really don't know whether anything is going to be done, I hope it will be but you never know sadly


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## DarkCarmen (May 17, 2009)

I don't see why the person working there didn't know about license, what if an official or inspector came in? looking confused would not have done them any good, doesn't matter if owner is out. like others have said license has to be there and on show also I'm sure their inspected yearly so that license can be renewed and think it's also signed by someone in the related council department.
It probably sounds hypocritical but I don't like seeing cats or dogs in petshops, although I have never had the misfortune to witness it but I'd probably end up walking out of said shop if i ever did see that. I mean obviously in an ideal world we wouldn't have pet shops with pets but it's how things have ended up and the majority do care and go by the rules/law/five freedom's, it's places like this that make you worry and also clear as to how some people who shouldn't own animals end up with them.
If I had the gall I would have been soo tempted to quiz them on the 5 freedoms and the animal welfare law see if they even know about it.
again like others have said cats and dogs are supposed to have different areas and especially dogs access to some kind of run.

I too thought it was illegal for cats and dogs to be kept in shops apart from having their basic requirements met I thought you had to have someone on the premises 24/7. because rescue centres usually have a house near or onsite. I know others have said not too bother but if your having no joy with council it might be worth trying the rspca they might do something as it's cats and dogs.
thanks for keeping us updated


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My local petshop had puppies for sale just for the one day as someone reported them and they were told that their license didnt cover puppies or kittens. When they asked how they could extend their license they got told that under West Lancs it was illegal for any shops in their area to ever sell them:no1:


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

DarkCarmen said:


> I don't see why the person working there didn't know about license, what if an official or inspector came in? looking confused would not have done them any good, doesn't matter if owner is out. like others have said license has to be there and on show also I'm sure their inspected yearly so that license can be renewed and think it's also signed by someone in the related council department.
> It probably sounds hypocritical but I don't like seeing cats or dogs in petshops, although I have never had the misfortune to witness it but I'd probably end up walking out of said shop if i ever did see that. I mean obviously in an ideal world we wouldn't have pet shops with pets but it's how things have ended up and the majority do care and go by the rules/law/five freedom's, it's places like this that make you worry and also clear as to how some people who shouldn't own animals end up with them.
> If I had the gall I would have been soo tempted to quiz them on the 5 freedoms and the animal welfare law see if they even know about it.
> again like others have said cats and dogs are supposed to have different areas and especially dogs access to some kind of run.
> ...


The boy in the shop couldn't of been any older then 16, he looked like he'd just left school, but with the way the pups are kept I wouldn't expect staff to have proper training on anything in there :bash:
I've reported them to the local council and RSPCA so hopefully these pups will be given a better chance at life. 



Shell195 said:


> My local petshop had puppies for sale just for the one day as someone reported them and they were told that their license didnt cover puppies or kittens. When they asked how they could extend their license they got told that under West Lancs it was illegal for any shops in their area to ever sell them:no1:


I wish I lived there, so many shops with kittens around here  but this is the first time since I have seen puppies in a shop, luckily I got photos of the conditions to hand over to the council this week so they can see the conditions that they were in should the shop of sold them. Although with the £400 price tag it seems unlikely. The prices of the animals in there just shows that they see animals as money makers and not living creatures  I also let them know about the poor enclosures for the rodents, when I popped in today they were full of dirt and one of the Syrian cages had wormy things of some sort in there. Gahhh just makes me so angry.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

Would just like to add if anybody in the essex area would like the name of the shop so that they can avoid it please feel free to PM me (so long as I'm allowed to do that). The more people that avoid this poor excuse for a pet shop the better.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

UPDATE:
Today I missed a call from the RSPCA (always choose to shower at the wrong time) so once I'm in work tonight I will be giving them a call to see what the update is with them. Still no call from the council but still it is only Monday so I am hoping to be hearing from them soon. 
I have also had 3 friends pop in there for me so that they can also report the shop and act as witness if needed. We all have photo's of said puppies that we can hand over so hopefully with all this something will be done.


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## Dave-Flames (Sep 20, 2006)

would said shop happen to be on a corner?


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

Dave-Flames said:


> would said shop happen to be on a corner?


Yes I think you may know the shop I'm on about, its a fairly new shop.


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## Dave-Flames (Sep 20, 2006)

Oh yes i know the place. the *PETS*hop on the *CORNER.*

I know the owner of the shop and he has had many compliants and had many visits from the RSPCA and they keep saying everythings ok.


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

has the legal question been answered if not then i shall answer

the lisence needed to sell dogs and cats is more expensive than a standard petshop lisence usually 100 pound more but changes from area to area, so aslong as they have tha adaquate licence it is legal


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

Dave-Flames said:


> Oh yes i know the place. the *PETS*hop on the *CORNER.*
> 
> I know the owner of the shop and he has had many compliants and had many visits from the RSPCA and they keep saying everythings ok.


That's the shop, thing is the pups were not provided with what they needed. I really do not agree with puppies in pet shops anyway as I feel that they need to be trained and socialised at that age as they can grow into very powerful animals, but if they have to be sold there then they should at least be provided with a bed. 
How the RSPCA can okay the shop is terrible, seeing as so many complaints have been made it must show something is wrong 



tomwilson said:


> has the legal question been answered if not then i shall answer
> 
> the lisence needed to sell dogs and cats is more expensive than a standard petshop lisence usually 100 pound more but changes from area to area, so aslong as they have tha adaquate licence it is legal


I just really don't think it should be legal  so sad


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

Dave-Flames said:


> Oh yes i know the place. the *PETS*hop on the *CORNER.*
> 
> I know the owner of the shop and he has had many compliants and had many visits from the RSPCA and they keep saying everythings ok.


what about the council, have they been involved? if the RSPCA can't/wont do anything because everything's 'o.k' then the only other thing that can be done is to get the council involved. if they don't have a license to sell puppies or if the council think they're not looking after them & revoke the license.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

sad to say we have been down this route with a fairly local small pet shop which had their puppies and kittens in the shop window in full on sunlight last summer. the puppies were flaked out in the sun, it was scortching hot. we immediately reported the shop to the rspca, believing as many do that it is illegal to sell pups and kittens in pet shops. we were told it is not yet illegal in this country for pet shops to sell puppies and kittens, it is frowned upon and some councils refuse licences to pet shops selling puppies and kittens. 

as the puppies and kittens were in direct sunlight and looked to be suffering the rspca agreed to do a check on it. they went in 2 days later, but went in when the sun wasnt shining in the window as it was the wrong time of day, because of this and the animals having water bowls they deemed it to be ok and left it be. unbelievable. we asked them to re-visit but they said our best bet was to contact the council and let them know. we did this but they said that the pet shop was fine and they do regular checks. 

thankfully the pet shop closed down late last year and has been replaced with a better shop with no puppies or kittens. it was heart braking to see the poor babies trying to get out of the sun in their little shop window pens. my husband had to drive past nearly every day and saw them in there. 

i personally think the rspca are rubbish, the amount of cruelty ive reported from pet shops and from private owners and not a single thing has come of any of it. the worst 1 i reported was my old neighbours, they had a large grey rabbit in a 2.5ft wooden hutch at the bottom of the garden behind a wooden fence panel thing, it wasnt watered and fed from 1 day to the next. i used to hop over the fence and give the rabbit food and water when i could and i once stuck sellotape over the latch on the hutch. it went 3 days in summer with no water or food, its bedding was crawling with maggots, its claws were so over grown it couldnt walk properly. repeatedly i told the owners to do something or i would and they would trot off up the garden to feed/water it while i watched. i reported them 3 times to the rspca, and eventually they came out for a visit. after 10 mins they came out, and we found out all they had done was warn them to trim the rabbits nails :gasp: i reported them 1 more time, and the rspca didnt even bother checking it. they had all the details of the conditions of the rabbit, and they saw the dirty cage and empty bowls for themselves. nothing.

i snapped 1 day when it was so hot and i could see the rabbit in its hutch laid out, i could see the maggots dropping from the wire front and the flies around it and thought it had died. then it moved, so i hopped the fence, again, and opened the door. the food was gone, the bottle was dry, the rabbit was looking bad, i filled its water bottle and as i held the bottle with no dropper on it i poured it in front of its face and it was drinking from the stream of water. ive never seen such thirst. the rabbit never went back into that hutch, i stole it, i took it to a friends house who owned rabbits and she sorted it out for me. it lived a long happy life away from those awful people. the worst thing, it was 4 days :gasp: until my neighbours asked me if id seen their rabbit as it had escaped (although when i asked when they last saw/fed it they said the night before :censor: ) i just said no but im sure its in a better place now.

i wont bother with the rspca now, i dont see the point. good luck with the council, but i daresay you wont get anywhere. maybe write letters of complaint to the owners of the shop with your concerns. i wish you all the best with it.


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## Nic123100 (Jun 13, 2009)

teshu said:


> what about the council, have they been involved? if the RSPCA can't/wont do anything because everything's 'o.k' then the only other thing that can be done is to get the council involved. if they don't have a license to sell puppies or if the council think they're not looking after them & revoke the license.


Local authorities have been notified as well, I really do hope something is done



goldie1212 said:


> sad to say we have been down this route with a fairly local small pet shop which had their puppies and kittens in the shop window in full on sunlight last summer. the puppies were flaked out in the sun, it was scortching hot. we immediately reported the shop to the rspca, believing as many do that it is illegal to sell pups and kittens in pet shops. we were told it is not yet illegal in this country for pet shops to sell puppies and kittens, it is frowned upon and some councils refuse licences to pet shops selling puppies and kittens.
> 
> as the puppies and kittens were in direct sunlight and looked to be suffering the rspca agreed to do a check on it. they went in 2 days later, but went in when the sun wasnt shining in the window as it was the wrong time of day, because of this and the animals having water bowls they deemed it to be ok and left it be. unbelievable. we asked them to re-visit but they said our best bet was to contact the council and let them know. we did this but they said that the pet shop was fine and they do regular checks.
> 
> ...


God that pet shop sounded awful, poor poor animals. This is why a lot of pet shops shouldn't sell animals because a lot of them don't even care for their about them, its all a big money making scheme. There's a few that are absolutely brilliant and really do care about the pets they sell, sadly there's just not enough of them around


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## Dave-Flames (Sep 20, 2006)

teshu said:


> what about the council, have they been involved? if the RSPCA can't/wont do anything because everything's 'o.k' then the only other thing that can be done is to get the council involved. if they don't have a license to sell puppies or if the council think they're not looking after them & revoke the license.


The problem is they are pretty new so they would not long been vet checked by the council.

Most councils only listed to places like the RSPCA as they claim people off the street have little knowledge of such things.


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

Dave-Flames said:


> The problem is they are pretty new so they would not long been vet checked by the council.
> 
> Most councils only listed to places like the RSPCA as they claim people off the street have little knowledge of such things.


but the council would know if they have the license to sell puppies. if they have and the council are happy, then there's really not much else that can be done.


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