# Venomous Handling Course (Pictures)



## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

Last night I completed the Venomous Handling Course at Wrigglies in Dunstable, below are some of the pictures from the evening and what I experienced. I work at the shop of course but we just provide the safe location for the course and it is run independently by our venomous handlers Dave and Julian.

I've had some experience handling crocodilians before and some limited experience with Heloderma and venomous snakes, but found the course was a good opportunity to try new handling techniques like pinning and tubing as well as practising hooking the snakes. I also got to work with species I hadn't worked with before.

It was a brilliant course, Dave and Jules and back up handler Fiona kept everything under control at all times. Definitely recommend anyone to go try it out. Unlike some other courses I have heard about which are all about watching and theory this was a safe but hands on experience, which in my opinion is the only way to properly learn what handling these snakes is all about.

Anyway here are some of the pictures from the evening...


----------



## omen (Sep 26, 2011)

i also did this it was amazing


----------



## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

Nice one Jason but i'll 100% leave the snakes to you :lol2: you seem to love dicing with death :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: seems like fun:2thumb:


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Interesting picture, I am sure it was a great experience. Was any first aid advice/training given during this session? This is a very important but often forgotten topic that anybody interacting with venomous snakes should be very familiar with. Also, it is worth remembering that a gaboon viper is a very heavy bodied animal with delicate neck and spine architecture. The body really needs to be supported when pinned to avoid damage.

David.


----------



## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

Yes we had a detailed debrief before we started covering what was involved, what the obvious risks were, and what we could all do to prevent them. First aid advice was covered, we talked about all the ways people try to help take the venom out, cut the wound etc, but the best thing to do being sit down, keep calm and call an ambulance, and remember the rip tag with the species details of the snake that bit you, while your back up handler ensures the snake is safely back in it's enclosure or tub.


----------



## Big Marky (May 3, 2010)

I did it too and as Jason says it was 100% safe. Bite protocols & first aid were discussed at length and obviously before any hots were un boxed.

Dave & Julian were super professional and this inspired confidence in all of us. Definitely NOT showboating or self indulgent. 
Coming from a training background I really appreciated this. 
All of the students were from different backgrounds with different levels of experince. 

Jason I'm still jealous at how easily you tubed that 100 pacer mate!


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

big marky said:


> i did it too and as jason says it was 100% safe. Bite protocols & first aid were discussed at length and obviously before any hots were un boxed.
> 
> Dave & julian were super professional and this inspired confidence in all of us. Definitely not showboating or self indulgent.
> Coming from a training background i really appreciated this.
> ...


twice!


----------



## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

Great pics and sounds really interesting


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

NightGecko said:


> Yes we had a detailed debrief before we started covering what was involved, what the obvious risks were, and what we could all do to prevent them. First aid advice was covered, we talked about all the ways people try to help take the venom out, cut the wound etc, but the best thing to do being sit down, keep calm and call an ambulance, and remember the rip tag with the species details of the snake that bit you, while your back up handler ensures the snake is safely back in it's enclosure or tub.


Was any coverage given to pressure bandages? How and when to apply them? Anaphylaxis and what to do to minimise venom exposure? How anaphylaxis can be managed pre-hospitalisation. This is particularly important, a number of venomous keepers have been killed by anaphylaxis in recent years. What to do if venom enters the eye? These are all things that venomous keepers should be well versed in. Obviously prevention is the best cure, but appropriate first aid knowledge should be a priority for anyone that has contact with venomous snakes. 

David.


----------



## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

DavidR said:


> Was any coverage given to pressure bandages? How and when to apply them? Anaphylaxis and what to do to minimise venom exposure? How anaphylaxis can be managed pre-hospitalisation. This is particularly important, a number of venomous keepers have been killed by anaphylaxis in recent years. What to do if venom enters the eye? These are all things that venomous keepers should be well versed in. Obviously prevention is the best cure, but appropriate first aid knowledge should be a priority for anyone that has contact with venomous snakes.
> 
> David.


 
Go on then give us a basic run down on how to deal with anaphylaxis.


----------



## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Go on then give us a basic run down on how to deal with anaphylaxis.


They guy is more than capable of giving this information so I dont think there is any point in asking him for that information.

Not sure if you would be able to understand it if he started.


----------



## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

AJ76 said:


> They guy is more than capable of giving this information so I dont think there is any point in asking him for that information.
> 
> Not sure if you would be able to understand it if he started.


Im first aid and trauma qualified, so i want to know if he knows something i don't.


----------



## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

There are no snakes that make me want a DWA but the Gila is the one animal that I would want that is on the DWA List.


----------



## LizardFTI (Dec 2, 2006)

I would love to do this course one day- I have heard nothing but good things about it.

One day I hope to own an atheris sp (ideally hispida), but thats a long way off yet ^_^


----------



## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

On the subject of anaphylaxis, if you're interested you can give this article a read. But I'm sure DavidR can add more to it, as it's just a brief overview of the topic in regards to venomous keepers. 

Anaphylaxis and the Venomous Keeper


----------



## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Crotalid said:


> On the subject of anaphylaxis, if you're interested you can give this article a read. But I'm sure DavidR can add more to it, as it's just a brief overview of the topic in regards to venomous keepers.
> 
> Anaphylaxis and the Venomous Keeper


 
cheers for that nothing new though really. 

From his statement i was wondering if he was aware of some new protocols regarding anaphylaxis.


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Go on then give us a basic run down on how to deal with anaphylaxis.


OK, well the first thing to consider is exposure to the venom and how it can be minimised. If you keep spitting cobras then you should wear respiratory as well as eye protection. If they spit at the glass, clean it off. Don't leave it to dry. You don't need to get bitten for anaphylaxis to occur, last year a keeper died after being spat in the face by _N. pallida_. If a snake leaves venom on a hook wash it off thoroughly and dispose of anything that has been in contact with venom (e.g. cloth used to clean venom). Don't leave it in a bin to dry.

If you are handling venomous snakes regularly then you should go to the doctor and get prescribed an epi-pen. The doctor should go through the symptoms of anaphylaxis, when and how to use the epi-pen. They may also prescribe a salbuatmol inhaler. Keep the epi-pen in easy reach and get to know how to use it (very simple). 

David.


----------



## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

Big Marky said:


> Jason I'm still jealous at how easily you tubed that 100 pacer mate!





Moshpitviper said:


> twice!


Well someone had to get in and get the job done we were running out of time :whistling2:


Seriously though, there was nothing we needed to know that Dave (MoshPitViper) or Julian did not cover...

Yes we do keep spitters at the shop but they were not involved in the venomous handling course.


----------



## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

NightGecko said:


> Seriously though, there was nothing we needed to know that Dave (MoshPitViper) or Julian did not cover...
> 
> Yes we do keep spitters at the shop but they were not involved in the venomous handling course.


Please don't think that I am trying to have a dig or cause trouble, I am just interested in what advice is given regarding snake bite first aid. This is an issue that receives very little attention (just look through the forums and see how often it is discussed). Obviously it isn't a good idea for unqualified individuals to dish out medical advice on the internet. It is however very important for keepers to think about this subject, read into it and practice basic first aid. A keepers chances of surviving a snakebite in tact are only as good as their first aid protocols. 

The suggestion that a snakebite victim should sit back and call an ambulance is very good. Getting to hospital quickly is clearly very important. Sometimes things don't go to plan however, and you may be waiting a while until trained medical professionals arrive. Even then you are not out of the woods. Hospitals in the UK are not geared up for dealing with snakebites (as a generalisation). I have heard enough horror stories from bite victims that have attended hospitals in the UK (e.g. doctors suggesting tourniquets and cutting around the bite site). There are very few doctors in the UK that actually have experience of treating snake bite. A few years a go I went to hospital after a very minor (non DWA species) snakebite. The doctors asked me for my advice on what to do and then turned to google.
Until you are in the hands of an experienced medic, or they are on the end of the phone, it is wise to do everything you can to reduce the effects of snake bite. Pressure bandages are a good start for certain species. Antivenom may take a long time to arrive and a pressure bandage applied late will not be of any use. One that has been applied correctly and quickly could potentially stave off the effects of the venom for long enough for antivenom to arrive. Obviously it is better to learn to apply a bandage before a bite rather than after. These training courses seem like an ideal time to introduce the technique to would be keepers.

It is possible to get venom in your eyes from species other than spitting cobras. Monocled cobras are well known for spraying venom when pinned. I have heard of it happening with spectacled cobras, large rattlesnakes and mangshan vipers as well. It is something that all handlers should be prepared for.

David.


----------



## m6s0ud (Jul 11, 2011)

Really interesting, I wish I was there


----------



## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

AJ76 said:


> They guy is more than capable of giving this information so *I dont think there is any point in asking him for that information*.


Apart from maybe to learn it? lol


----------



## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

DavidR said:


> It is possible to get venom in your eyes from species other than spitting cobras. Monocled cobras are well known for spraying venom when pinned. I have heard of it happening with spectacled cobras, large rattlesnakes and mangshan vipers as well. It is something that all handlers should be prepared for.
> 
> David.


It is known that when _Boiga dendrophila_ get stressed they begin to chew and excrete venom into and from their mouths. 

When it has been a situation were they have not been allowed to calm down and are drooling, the next strike will actually cause the snake to 'fling' venom out at me (spit is not an apt description here). 

I was very surprised when this first happened and thought it was a one off, but have since experienced it a few times. They generally strike at the source of CO2, so it could be quite possible that they could hit me in an eye or go in my mouth, either of which I dont think would be ideal. Closest they have got was on my chest, from the floor by a 5+ft animal.

I am now very aware of this and as soon as I see any signs that they are becoming overly stressed I back off and let them calm down. 
Have also got myself a pair of goggles for those times when I have no choice and have to piss the snake off more.

Is definitely food for thought and something I am not sure many boiga keepers are aware of.. 

To the OP. Awesome pics and looks like it was a great experience. Going to have to get involved in one at some point. I had no idea what a 'venomous course' would look like, thank you for sharing the pics.

Tom


----------



## hotmanrules (Sep 28, 2012)

*greatstuff*there should be more teaching going on devo thing of doing this my self.....keep up the gd work:2thumb:


----------



## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

noob question. but pic 7, what snake is that? is has something on its nose?

also, pics 9&10. what is that, its stunning!!

thanks

Sean


----------



## Crotalid (Sep 28, 2012)

SeanEK4 said:


> noob question. but pic 7, what snake is that? is has something on its nose?
> 
> also, pics 9&10. what is that, its stunning!!
> 
> ...


Pic 7 is Bitis nasicornis (Rhino viper)

Pic 9&10 is Bitis rhinoceros (West African Gaboon)


----------



## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

thanks for your reply!

that gaboon really is stunning! never seen patterns like that.

im only 15 mins from this shop, i think a visit is in order!


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I see Hugo is keeping an eye on you in the last pic Jason! And BTW everyone, I am taking bookings for the december course now.


----------



## Jenface (Apr 8, 2012)

There is no snake I like more than Rhinos. I'll probably never own one but those photos are stunning.


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Jenface said:


> There is no snake I like more than Rhinos. I'll probably never own one but those photos are stunning.


You never seen Bitis parviocula?


----------



## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Moshpitviper said:


> You never seen Bitis parviocula?


Do you keep them? I'm not a huge Bitis fan, but I'd make an exception for a parviocula.


----------



## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

Moshpitviper said:


> You never seen Bitis parviocula?


Well I still prefer nasicornis Dave. Can't beat them : victory:


----------



## Jenface (Apr 8, 2012)

Moshpitviper said:


> You never seen Bitis parviocula?



I've not. 
I'm open to education though. I've googled them, I think it's more the personality of rhinos I like.


----------



## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

Jenface said:


> I've not.
> I'm open to education though. I've googled them, I think it's more the personality of rhinos I like.


They are very similar in behaviour and temperament to B.arietans. Some are quite placid and some are irascible and extremely defensive. They are not like B gabonica/rhinoceros or B. nasicornis at all, and have the same husbandry requirements as Arietans. They are becoming a lot more affordable now and can be acquired for about £5000 a pair.


----------



## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

stark said:


> ..._Boiga dendrophila_... They generally strike at the source of CO2...
> Tom


I don't understand this - please explain?


Back on topic - very nice thread guys... Will have to visit sometime. Lots of positive input and advice coming from different angles. Thanks.


----------



## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

KWIBEZEE said:


> I don't understand this - please explain?
> 
> 
> Back on topic - very nice thread guys... Will have to visit sometime. Lots of positive input and advice coming from different angles. Thanks.



Source of CO2 = exhaled air

i.e. they go for the face :2thumb:


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

bothrops said:


> Source of CO2 = exhaled air
> 
> i.e. they go for the face :2thumb:


Yes.... Yes they do! :lol2:


----------



## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

If I was more computer literate I might have sorted out putting my photos up too - instead I'd just like to put a big thumbs up to Dave and Jules who ran the course. A really awesome night (just to add to all the other good reviews on here) and REALLY awesome hundred pacers.

Dad's still not too keen on my idea of getting a mangrove yet though!


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

why handle?

just prompt things into a safe box...


----------



## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

HABU said:


> why handle?
> 
> just prompt things into a safe box...


That's what we were doing...


----------



## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

bothrops said:


> Source of CO2 = exhaled air
> 
> i.e. they go for the face :2thumb:


Also because we blink unconciously and its a source of movement they can aim for not DWA but my king rats always got this habit of staring me straight in the face put a paid of sunglasses on (which didnt have her reflection in like the first pair) and she really shows no interest to my face


----------



## omen (Sep 26, 2011)

heres my pictures from when i dis the course


----------



## omen (Sep 26, 2011)




----------

