# Do you reckon there should be a....



## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

kind of NHS for pets, especially ones that need the vets alot, so it wouldn't cost anything, or not be so expensive to get check ups and stuff?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> kind of NHS for pets, especially ones that need the vets alot, so it wouldn't cost anything, or not be so expensive to get check ups and stuff?


 Check ups aren't expensive. There is a NHS for pets. It's called insurance. You pay a monthly fee, just as you pay national insurance on your wages when you work which pays for your NHS.


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## pebbles (Jul 12, 2006)

The PDSA is free


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

pebbles said:


> The PDSA is free


I thought you had to leave at least a donation (amount of your own choice) ?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

pebbles said:


> The PDSA is free


for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


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## akai-chan (Sep 7, 2008)

The PDSA isn'f free I don;t think, it;s reduced for people on benefits and that's it  Plus you're only allowed to have 3 pets registered with them.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

some people are "poor" and still take pride and responsability, they just need to pay for things so they can live and look after them


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## akai-chan (Sep 7, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


I don;t agree with that last bit, some people cannot afford vet treatment as some vets charge ripoff prices. I myself am on benefits and the PDSA was a godsend when I needed to get my ferret neutered after I lost my job, as I wouldn;t have been able to afford the extortionate vets bills otherwise. 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


Smooth.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

akai-chan said:


> I don;t agree with that last bit, some people cannot afford vet treatment as some vets charge ripoff prices. I myself am on benefits and the PDSA was a godsend when I needed to get my ferret neutered etc as I wouldn;t have been able to afford the vets bills otherwise.
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


Vet fees are fair. If people can't afford them they shouldn't have pets or they should have insurance.
I myself am also on benefits and pay for all my pets myself.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I am not a freeloader. I don't get myself an animal and expect other people to pay to care for it.
Nobody forced you to get your ferret , but, having done so, why didn't you save up to get it neutered? Stop smoking, or drinking and put away that money for taking care of your own responsibilities.


> *I will have rat babies for sale in 6 weeks. Please PM me for details.*
> *__________________________________________________ _______*​*I will have multis for sale at some point soon. Please PM me for details*


 or use some of the money you make from breeding animals, to cover your vet bills.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


 
I think thats a little out of order my dad used the PDSA when we had our old dog, When my dad was on benefits because he was looking after 4 children under the age of 16 by himself.

We had the dog way before he had to go on benefits though.... and we werent getting rid of him when we had this alternative.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

i take as much resposibility with my pets as i can, i am not getting any christmas presents this year and i missed out on half of my birthday gifts so i can get jaspers jabs and his op and microchip done so he can go outside and have a nice life full of freedom!
and at 14 its hard paying for vet bills, but i try because i care, even if it means i have to go hungry at school so i can save my weekly fiver, and when i feel i can't take care of a pet anymore, i will pass it on to an owner that will give it everything i did and more,
now you tell me i have no pride and take nor responsibilty in my pets

all the people i know would expect a kid to get their parents to pay, not me, i like to show i can be mature and responsible


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Vet fees are fair. If people can't afford them they shouldn't have pets or they should have insurance.
> I myself am also on benefits and pay for all my pets myself.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I am not a freeloader. I don't get myself an animal and expect other people to pay to care for it.
> Nobody forced you to get your ferret , but, having done so, why didn't you save up to get it neutered? Stop smoking, or drinking and put away that money for taking care of your own responsibilities.
> 
> ...


What if they can afford food, taking time for walks and genral housing?

Why make people have to pay for vet fairs? If they can take care of them in general but not afford vet fee's then its not very fair I think.


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## akai-chan (Sep 7, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Vet fees are fair. If people can't afford them they shouldn't have pets or they should have insurance.
> I myself am also on benefits and pay for all my pets myself.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I am not a freeloader. I don't get myself an animal and expect other people to pay to care for it.
> Nobody forced you to get your ferret , but, having done so, why didn't you save up to get it neutered? Stop smoking, or drinking and put away that money for taking care of your own responsibilities.


Some vets charge absolutely ridiculous amounts and some people can't help things like losing their job etc and having to go on benefits.

I lost my job, didn't have much in the way of savings and what I did have went on the deposit for a flat. I did not have the money to pay for the neutering of my ferret (£80) when I lost my job, as the benefits were barely enough to cover myself. Bear in mind I had this ferret when I had my job and when I could afford to pay for him. I think that's completely unfair, you saying that people shouldn't have pets 'If they can't afford them'. If they can't in the first place when they get the pet then yes I agree but sometimes REAL LIFE happens and you can't help things like losing jobs or having to spend money on more important things like housing.

I got my ferret when I could afford him, when he was too young to be neutered. By the time he was 8 months old I could no longer afford to neuter him as I had assumed I would still be employed by that point.

And FYI I don't smoke and I don't drink. Most of my money goes on my pets before I spend it on myself, but at that point I could not afford the amount the vets were charging.

What about smaller animals like rats? You can;t get those insured. What if they need veterinary attention? Most vets in my area charge £15-£20 just to see a small animal like a rat, that's before medication and anything else that needs to be done. What do you suggest for that?

If the PDSA is there then I will use it. I know it had been a godsend for me and several other people I know who have hit hard times recently. That does not make us 'freeloaders' as you put it. We do not expect other people to pay to care for our animals, but sometimes you can't help real life getting in the way of your good intentions.

Peace
Akai-Chan

[EDIT] You think I make money from breeding these animals? I make enough to cover their food and bedding and general care, not to cover any of my other pets. If I was rolling in money from breeding do you think I would be living in a sh1tty little flat and having to rely on bloody benefits to support myself? I was also not breeding animals when I had to get my ferret neutered so that doesn't even apply!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> i take as much resposibility with my pets as i can, i am not getting any christmas presents this year and i missed out on half of my birthday gifts so i can get jaspers jabs and his op and microchip done so he can go outside and have a nice life full of freedom!
> and at 14 its hard paying for vet bills, but i try because i care, even if it means i have to go hungry at school so i can save my weekly fiver, and when i feel i can't take care of a pet anymore, i will pass it on to an owner that will give it everything i did and more,
> now you tell me i have no pride and take nor responsibilty in my pets
> 
> all the people i know would expect a kid to get their parents to pay, not me, i like to show i can be mature and responsible


 You are not allowed by law to get a pet without your parents permission and by giving permission they are accepting responsibility. So are you saying that your parents got a pet but are refusing to be responsible for it?


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

theres already the bluecross and others that do minimum donation for vet treatment for people on benefits.
and no i dont think there should be an NHS for pets, if you cant think ahead for possible vet bills dont get them. 
get insurance or if need be get a credit card for use in emergencies


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> What if they can afford food, taking time for walks and genral housing?
> 
> Why make people have to pay for vet fairs? If they can take care of them in general but not afford vet fee's then its not very fair I think.


 Why should other people have to be responsible for their pet? Everyone can afford vet fees. If they have one single dog or even a couple of them, then they should get insurance. Why has this country become a nation of freeloaders who expect others to subsidise them?
If you cannot afford to pay to take care of a pet, then you should not get a pet. What happens if you decide that you can't afford to feed it, because you spent the money going out, or bought another packet of ****, or decided to eat takeaways. Will the pet starve or do you expect someone else to pay for it's food also?
This is a really thorny subject for me. I have a lot of animals. I mean a real lot of animals. I am also on benefits because of my disability. I pay for my animals myself. Why should I expect anyone else to subsidise them? I decided to get them. Nobody forced me to get them.
They lack for nothing. They have food aplenty, they are wormed and deflead every 3 months, if they get sick, they see a vet, they get neutered by my vet. I don't stand with my hand out waiting for someone else to pay for what I decided to take on.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> You are not allowed by law to get a pet without your parents permission and by giving permission they are accepting responsibility. So are you saying that your parents got a pet but are refusing to be responsible for it?


 Its got a house food and water.

If the vets really care for animals they'll lower their prices for microchippings etc.........

If its in perfect health has neccesary housing, and food requirements then responsibilty is being taken and their caring for animals correctly.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Why should other people have to be responsible for their pet? Everyone can afford vet fees. If they have one single dog or even a couple of them, then they should get insurance. Why has this country become a nation of freeloaders who expect others to subsidise them?
> If you cannot afford to pay to take care of a pet, then you should not get a pet. What happens if you decide that you can't afford to feed it, because you spent the money going out, or bought another packet of ****, or decided to eat takeaways. Will the pet starve or do you expect someone else to pay for it's food also?
> This is a really thorny subject for me. I have a lot of animals. I mean a real lot of animals. I am also on benefits because of my disability. I pay for my animals myself. Why should I expect anyone else to subsidise them? I decided to get them. Nobody forced me to get them.
> They lack for nothing. They have food aplenty, they are wormed and deflead every 3 months, if they get sick, they see a vet, they get neutered by my vet. I don't stand with my hand out waiting for someone else to pay for what I decided to take on.


 Its called helping each other out. There is a reccesion and money's getting more scarse.

If their being fed, housed and looked after which they are, then they are responsible owners.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

ok now i'm really reduced to tears, why does everyone on this forum think they can walk all over people, just because you have enough money dosen't make veryone else poor


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

oh and not EVERYONE can afford vet fees

oh and i apoligise in adivance if i get tetchy and agressive, i have a very short fuse and my life is stressful right now


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

And once again, Fenwoman has managed to peed a few people off with her spout.....:whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

lizardloverrach said:


> theres already the bluecross and others that do minimum donation for vet treatment for people on benefits.
> and no i dont think there should be an NHS for pets, if you cant think ahead for possible vet bills dont get them.
> get insurance or if need be get a credit card for use in emergencies


 I was beginning to think I was odd in thinking that people should be responsible for their own pet bills.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I was beginning to think I was odd in thinking that people should be responsible for their own pet bills.


My dog is healthy and doesent yet need a vet.

Because I can care for him and keep him healthy.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Its called helping each other out. There is a reccesion and money's getting more scarse.
> 
> If their being fed, housed and looked after which they are, then they are responsible owners.


 Don't talk nonsense. What money is getting scarce? Benefits have stayed the same, food has stayed the same or got cheaper. Insurance for pets has got cheaper and there are discounts and special offers around at the moment. Freeloaders will always find an excuse for expecting other people to pay for them.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I was beginning to think I was odd in thinking that people should be responsible for their own pet bills.


hang on a mo, one question
when did you get the authority to tell me i can't be responsible, and that if i can't afford it i don't love it and care about it?
trust me if people would take on a 14 year old for a saturday job then i would do it, even if it was for loose change, just so i could save it up for the pets


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> oh and not EVERYONE can afford vet fees
> 
> oh and i apoligise in adivance if i get tetchy and agressive, i have a very short fuse and my life is stressful right now


 I agree that not everyone can afford vet fees. Those are the people who should not take on a pet. Or, they should put away the £8-£12 a month it costs to insure them.
Life is stressful for all of us love. Some of use have a lot of responsibilities, keeping a house going, feeding ourselves, paying bills and caring for more animals than you would own in a lifetime.
I currently have 25 dogs and 18 cats and 40 parrots plus the livestock. I expect nobody to pay for my animals.I pay for everything myself the same as I pay my own mortgage, electricity and water bills, car insurance etc.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Don't talk nonsense. What money is getting scarce? Benefits have stayed the same, food has stayed the same or got cheaper. Insurance for pets has got cheaper and there are discounts and special offers around at the moment. Freeloaders will always find an excuse for expecting other people to pay for them.


 Vet bills are obviously still ridiculosly over priced.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I agree that not everyone can afford vet fees. Those are the people who should not take on a pet. Or, they should put away the £8-£12 a month it costs to insure them.
> Life is stressful for all of us love. Some of use have a lot of responsibilities, keeping a house going, feeding ourselves, paying bills and caring for more animals than you would own in a lifetime.
> I currently have 25 dogs and 18 cats and 40 parrots plus the livestock. I expect nobody to pay for my animals.I pay for everything myself the same as I pay my own mortgage, electricity and water bills, car insurance etc.


 you said everyone could afford it before
so i should lead a life and nto show responsibility
don't call me love,
how do you know how many pets i'm gonna have?, even i don't yet
i pay for everything for the pets
well i can't pay for it can i i'm not old enough to have a morgage or a car,


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I agree that not everyone can afford vet fees. Those are the people who should not take on a pet. Or, they should put away the £8-£12 a month it costs to insure them.
> Life is stressful for all of us love. Some of use have a lot of responsibilities, keeping a house going, feeding ourselves, paying bills and *caring for more animals than you would own in a lifetime.*
> I currently have 25 dogs and 18 cats and 40 parrots plus the livestock. I expect nobody to pay for my animals.I pay for everything myself the same as I pay my own mortgage, electricity and water bills, car insurance etc.


...and thats relevant how?.....:whistling2:


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

F'ing hell Fenwoman you really are mean, the OP has said she's very upset by your comments and your still having a go. Maybe you dont agree with her but shesh have a little tact!


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Its got a house food and water.
> 
> If the vets really care for animals they'll lower their prices for microchippings etc.........
> 
> If its in perfect health has neccesary housing, and food requirements then responsibilty is being taken and their caring for animals correctly.


very much agree with this, yes i think vets should reduce prices, we pay for all our vet treatment n sometimes it is maddness, mine/my mums dog is very ill at the mo n it has cost over £400 in vets fees n still they dont know whats up with her so treatment will be on going n the bill will probably rise, we even got charged for a second opinion at the same vets but under a different vet :bash: why couldnt they do this for free we had already spent a bomb


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

oh and also, i've had over 700 pets at once, and i managed to downsize


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## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> I agree that not everyone can afford vet fees. Those are the people who should not take on a pet. Or, they should put away the £8-£12 a month it costs to insure them.
> Life is stressful for all of us love. Some of use have a lot of responsibilities, keeping a house going, feeding ourselves, paying bills and caring for more animals than you would own in a lifetime.
> I currently have 25 dogs and 18 cats and 40 parrots plus the livestock. I expect nobody to pay for my animals.I pay for everything myself the same as I pay my own mortgage, electricity and water bills, car insurance etc.


25 dogs and 18 cats wont even mention the parrots:gasp:

I get fed up with two dogs malting all over my carpet during the summer, forever brushing them and hoovering up. I couldnt imagine that many. Your house must be massive :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> My dog is healthy and doesent yet need a vet.
> 
> Because I can care for him and keep him healthy.


 That's great. Hopefully though, you have some contingency in place for the time when he might need vet care?
Even healthy dogs can have accidents like my very healthy lurcher who was running like the wind and managed to gouge a big hole in his side when he knocked agains a fence post out near the river which had a nail head sticking out. Luckily it healed fine as he was very healthy but it still cost me £150 in vet fees.
If you have a good relationship with your vet he may also allow you to have time to pay, like my farm vets did when I ran up over £600 worth of vet bill last easter for the goats.
I'd no more expect someone else to pay my vet bills than I would think of going and sitting outside a train station with a placard and begging bowl.
Perhaps it's because I'm of an older generation where we accepted responsibility for ourselves?


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

In answer to the OP's orginal question, no I don't think there should be something like that. I am a strong believer that if you cannot afford vet fees, you shouldn't have pets.

However sometimes there are situations where the PDSA for example might help those that really need it in an unexpected situation - I have no probs with that. But I don't agree with relying on a charity to provide vet care for your animal. That is wrong.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

No amount of care will prevent a pet needin a vet at some point in its life, whether for routine or emergency, the latter possibly being extremely costly. Don't tell me you have never been to the doctors.


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> ...and thats relevant how?.....:whistling2:


think ur still on ignore hun, i wouldnt worry about it :lol2:

i am however wondering what benefit fenwoman is on 2 afford all that she has stated she can afford :whistling2:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I'd no more expect someone else to pay my vet bills than I would think of going and sitting outside a train station with a placard and begging bowl.
> Perhaps it's because I'm of an older generation where we accepted responsibility for ourselves?


 i accepted resopnsibility when my life fell apart in front of me, how many times do i have to say, you don't have to be over 16 to be responsible


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

mattm said:


> In answer to the OP's orginal question, no I don't think there should be something like that. I am a strong believer that if you cannot afford vet fees, you shouldn't have pets.
> 
> However sometimes there are situations where the PDSA for example might help those that really need it in an unexpected situation - I have no probs with that. But I don't agree with relying on a charity to provide vet care for your animal. That is wrong.


 thanks for expressing your opinion in a nice way :2thumb:


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> think ur still on ignore hun, i wouldnt worry about it :lol2:
> 
> i am however wondering what benefit fenwoman is on 2 afford all that she has stated she can afford :whistling2:


Me too Jen, plus isnt it tax payers money that pay benefits ie someone elses money ie freeloading :whistling2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> think ur still on ignore hun, i wouldnt worry about it :lol2:
> 
> i am however wondering what benefit fenwoman is on 2 afford all that she has stated she can afford :whistling2:


Think you are too, sexual! x


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## akai-chan (Sep 7, 2008)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> i am however wondering what benefit fenwoman is on 2 afford all that she has stated she can afford :whistling2:


Me too >_<

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

CBR1100XX said:


> 25 dogs and 18 cats wont even mention the parrots:gasp:
> 
> I get fed up with two dogs malting all over my carpet during the summer, forever brushing them and hoovering up. I couldnt imagine that many. Your house must be massive :whistling2:


 I always though my house was small but several people who have visited, have told me it is not small. I have no carpets. Won't have them in the place. My dogs get clipped, bathed and brushed regularly. The ones which are clipped obviously don't need brushing as much but get it done anyway just because they like it. The real hair monester is Ursa and Chalky the terrier and since I am an ex groomer, I have all the kit available and do them daily. I don't find it a chore. In fact I enjoy it. I recently bought one of those new Mikki moult master things which is pretty good.
I suppose I'm just used to having a lot of dogs around me. I'd miss them if I never had them. I live for my animals. Mostly they are teeny tinies though so they don't take much room. I do have a dedicated room for the dogs too with all their beds and grooming table, food and water bowls etc so I suppose I am lucky. But then, I chose this house on the basis that it was perfect for me and my animals.
I only have 4 parrots in the house. The rest of them live outside in the large custom built aviary block, and a large communial aviary.
Plus of course, I have land and the dogs have free access to the land, so it isn't like I only have one small living room and tiny garden, I do have a lot of rooms downstairs and the dogs tend to spend fine days outside by their own choice, either lazing in the sun or playing.
If I lived in a normal modern house on an estate with a tiny garden, I could not keep the number of animals I currently have. If that happened, I'd be flipping rich :lol2:
My monthly feed bill is currently £300+.:gasp:


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Think you are too, sexual! x


Haha zoo-man do you love Jen :lol2:


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> Me too Jen, plus isnt it tax payers money that pay benefits ie someone elses money ie freeloading :whistling2:


that is very rite, so any money received on bennies lol is from other peoples wages :whistling2::whistling2: 



Zoo-Man said:


> Think you are too, sexual! x


i think ur more sexual (i want u :devil x


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Vet bills are obviously still ridiculosly over priced.


 I'm afraid I think my vet charges very reasonably. Not only my small animal vet but both my farm vets are very fair.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I think if you choose your vet wisely you can find one that charge a reasonable amount.

I do think vet care should be tax free though.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> i'm afraid i think my vet charges very reasonably. Not only my small animal vet but both my farm vets are very fair.


 £600??


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> Haha zoo-man do you love Jen :lol2:


 I love Jen tonnes! She is my babe & I want her children (well, child) hehe x


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> Me too Jen, plus isnt it tax payers money that pay benefits ie someone elses money ie freeloading :whistling2:


 What benefits I am on are entirely my own business. Being disabled is hardly freeloading. I worked hard all of my life and paid my taxes like anyone else, as did my late father, as did my brother and as does my son and his partner (they have 2 jobs each).
If I was ablebodied and able to work and earn my own money, I would do but until science develops a plastic spine and can do spine transplants to replace my damaged one, I won't be able to.
The government decided what benefits I should get, and the government decided what they will give me in order to allow me to live some kind of life.
I make economies in order to pay for my animals, that's how I afford them.
Perhaps you think that disabled should mean unabled and that anyone with any kind of disability should simply be put to sleep to save taxpayers money?
Do you work?


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

shes only 14 and ur giving her a hard time at the end of the day she is looking after her animal in the best way she can, she is feeding it,giving it the care that needs and she is paying her vets bill and she should be givin credit for that ,not many 14 yr olds would give up what she has to take care of an animal and the pdsa isnt just for ppl sponging of the government its for ppl on low income and that means ppl in low paid jobs aswell,just because they go to the pdsa dont mean they dont love their animals they wouldnt be going to the pdsa if they didnt love them ,they would just leave them suffering.And the amount of ppl who have lost there jobs in the past few months who have worked hard for yrs does that mean they dont love their animals because they find money a bit tight and have to use the pdsa.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> £600??


 and? You think that is too cheap for all the work I had done, all the blood and faecal testing and all the call outs?


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

right.. well according to this thread i should just give up all my animals now, yep take them right down to the rescue centre and dump them all.. because i no longer have a job so have no money. i will be going back to college and getting £30 a week. i dont think that saying everyone on befits is in the same situation as you fenny, yes you have lots of animals but disability benefits are more than normal jsa...

when i got my rats i didnt have a mega overdraft to pay off, rent to pay, a £100 bus pass and college course materials. but i WILL NOT just pass my animals from pillar to post just because my situations have changed. i will always try my hardest to cover vets fees and luckily in the past my animals have rarely needed the vets and when they have it has been pretty minor. 

the OP is 14! and trying to be responsible. people moan that children arnt taught to be responsible for animals then she says she is trying to be and she gets shot down by saying her animals are her parents, no they are animals she cares for!


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> What benefits I am on are entirely my own business. Being disabled is hardly freeloading. I worked hard all of my life and paid my taxes like anyone else, as did my late father, as did my brother and as does my son and his partner (they have 2 jobs each).
> If I was ablebodied and able to work and earn my own money, I would do but until science develops a plastic spine and can do spine transplants to replace my damaged one, I won't be able to.
> The government decided what benefits I should get, and the government decided what they will give me in order to allow me to live some kind of life.
> I make economies in order to pay for my animals, that's how I afford them.
> ...


having all them pets n caring for them 110% is much more hard work than most full time jobs :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

blissfull said:


> shes only 14 and ur giving her a hard time


 I'm not giving her a hard time. I haven't even responded to any of her posts for the last 3 pages.




> at the end of the day she is looking after her animal in the best way she can, she is feeding it,giving it the care that needs and she is paying her vets bill and she should be giving credit for that ,not many 14 yr olds would give up what she has to take care of an animal and the pdsa isnt just for ppl sponging of the government its for ppl on low income and that means ppl in low paid jobs aswell,just because they go to the pdsa dont mean they dont love their animals they wouldnt be going to the pdsa if they didnt love them ,they would just leave them suffering.And the amount of ppl who have lost there jobs in the past few months who have worked hard for yrs does that mean they dont love their animals because they find money a bit tight and have to use the pdsa.


 Did I mention anything about love or loving an animal? I don't think I did.
You imagine I never worked? I am of an age that I was working when the last recession hit in the 1980's. I lost my job then, and eventually lost my home too. I still paid my own pet food and vet bills. I did have les pets then (only 3 dogs and 2 cats) and had them insured.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> What benefits I am on are entirely my own business. Being disabled is hardly freeloading. I worked hard all of my life and paid my taxes like anyone else, as did my late father, as did my brother and as does my son and his partner (they have 2 jobs each).
> If I was ablebodied and able to work and earn my own money, I would do but until science develops a plastic spine and can do spine transplants to replace my damaged one, I won't be able to.
> The government decided what benefits I should get, and the government decided what they will give me in order to allow me to live some kind of life.
> I make economies in order to pay for my animals, that's how I afford them.
> ...


Yes I do work and I earn good money. I also believe that being ill/disabled should allow ppl to get benefits, but the fact of the matter is benefits are other ppls wages, just like vet charities


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

all i did was ask a simpe harmless question, 
now i feel guilty for causing an argument between everyone


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fern said:


> the OP is 14! and trying to be responsible. people moan that children arnt taught to be responsible for animals then she says she is trying to be and she gets shot down by saying her animals are her parents, no they are animals she cares for!


 I never shot her down. I happened to point out that legally
at the age of 14, she cannot buy a pet and cannot be held responsible for it. As a parent myself I can't imagine me getting my son a pet and then making him be totally responsible for it financially at that age. Every pet we had as a family, was paid for by me as the responsible adult and he was expected to have some responsibility by doing things like feeding or cleaning etc. I was talking about what the law says about a 14 year old and pets, nothing to do with what I personally think. I thought I'd been clear on that.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> all i did was ask a simpe harmless question,
> now i feel guilty for causing an argument between everyone


Don't feel guilty, its not you, its Fenwoman, she likes to be abrasive


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Did I mention anything about love or loving an animal? I don't think I did.
> You imagine I never worked? I am of an age that I was working when the last recession hit in the 1980's. I lost my job then, and eventually lost my home too. I still paid my own pet food and vet bills. I did have les pets then (only 3 dogs and 2 cats) and had them insured.


 So..

Having pets uninsured meens they'll all die?? Hers are in good health and shes keeping them fed, housed and what you said you didnt do "loved".

So if their kept in good health they dont need to be. She's still taking responsibility because their alive. 

What you should say, is, have them insured as a precaution.

It would have sounded alot nicer, then wht you basically implied at the beginning.


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


if they refused to take responsibility for there pets then why in gods name are they taking them to a vet,would you rather that ppl took there pets to the pdsa and they got looked after or just left to rot.In the long run it doesnt matter how much you pay for vets treatment if you spend £600 or £6 the animal is getting the treatment it needs there is no shame in going to the pdsa is doent mean that ppl dont take pride or responsibilty


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> having all them pets n caring for them 110% is much more hard work than most full time jobs :whistling2:


it is? How so?...............:whistling2:


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Shall we just put a blanket ban on "poor" people having animals then :bash:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

but my mum didnt get it for me, i saved and bought it myself
age is just a number, the fact is my mum says, oh let me pay for it and i say no


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I never shot her down. I happened to point out that legally
> at the age of 14, she cannot buy a pet and cannot be held responsible for it. .


 Course missing out when you said everyone is poor and doent care or take responsibilty of their pets for taking the PDSA.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> it is? How so?...............:whistling2:


All that sh*t shovelling, feeding, walking, grooming, milking goats, keeping that house clean.......... thats a lot of hard work!


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> it is? How so?...............:whistling2:


all that bending down, cleaning up, muking out, bathing dogs etc etc etc, im sure u know what it entails if animals are correctly cared for, i know it hurts my back. im sure a full time job would be easier specially a nice sit down one


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> All that sh*t shovelling, feeding, walking, grooming, milking goats, keeping that house clean.......... thats a lot of hard work!


But zoo-man you have a pet shop, everyone knows petshops know nothing about caring for animals :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> So..
> 
> Having pets uninsured meens they'll all die??


 I dunno, does it? You said it not me.



> Hers are in good health and shes keeping them fed, housed and what you said you didnt do "loved".


not sure I really understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that you know her personally and have seen all her pets so are able to make a statement based on what you have seen?
Not sure I understand the reference to 'loved'.



> So if their kept in good health they dont need to be. She's still taking responsibility because their alive.


 still not sure what you are actually trying to say. She is acting responsibly by trying to pay for everything herself. I never said she wasn't. I merely pointed out that in the eyes of the law, she is a minor, and as such, is not allowed, legally, to buy a pet, nor can she be legally held responsible for it's welfare and wellbeing. Not my opinion, but, the law.



> What you should say, is, have them insured as a precaution


.
I think you'll find it's what I have said several times in several posts.



> It would have sounded alot nicer, then wht you basically implied at the beginning.


I don't 'do' implication. I say what I mean to say. There is nothing hidden between the lines, nothing inferred or anything.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> But zoo-man you have a pet shop, everyone knows petshops know nothing about caring for animals :whistling2:


:lol2:


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## boromale2008 (Feb 6, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Don't talk nonsense. What money is getting scarce? Benefits have stayed the same, *food has stayed the same or got cheaper*. Insurance for pets has got cheaper and there are discounts and special offers around at the moment. Freeloaders will always find an excuse for expecting other people to pay for them.


i know this is dragging an older part up but where do you shop? everything has gone up in price.
also fenwoman, do you have private health care?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> But zoo-man you have a pet shop, everyone knows petshops know nothing about caring for animals :whistling2:


I wonder why Colin keeps replying to me when he knows he's on my blocked list. It's a bit like shouting abuse down an empty alley.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

you wanna know something, this is getting rediculous,just cause i'm not yet 16 does not mean i'm not responsible, tbh i' still not sure why everyone has to argue on this forum


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

plus all the elderly people who's pets are their life ,the ones who treat there animals better than they treat themselves you want them to spend all their pension on vets bills and end up cold and hungry but its ok aslong as they dont go to the pdsa cause it means they dont take responsibility for their pets


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I wonder why Colin keeps replying to me when he knows he's on my blocked list. It's a bit like shouting abuse down an empty alley.


:hmm:At least its off his chest, he knows nothing anyway


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

blissfull said:


> plus all the elderly people who's pets are their life ,the ones who treat there animals better than they treat themselves you want them to spend all their pension on vets bills and end up cold and hungry but its ok aslong as they dont go to the pdsa cause it means they dont take responsibility for their pets


 oh don't forget, it also means that they're poor!


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> all i did was ask a simpe harmless question,
> now i feel guilty for causing an argument between everyone


dont i think that what your suggesting is good and just like insurance but would cover more animals. people do get into difficulty but of course we should just get rid of our animals if that happens :whistling2:


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

and raw you sound more responsible than some adults i know hun so dont let it get you down you should be proud of urself for the way u are looking after ur animals


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I wonder why Colin keeps replying to me when he knows he's on my blocked list. It's a bit like shouting abuse down an empty alley.


Just adding to the conversation. Just because I quote you, it doesn't necessarily mean I am directing my reply at you


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

8 pages and it seems that i'm the only person who has a job




RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> kind of NHS for pets, especially ones that need the vets alot, so it wouldn't cost anything, or not be so expensive to get check ups and stuff?


The NHS isn't free. We pay for it out of our national insurance contributions, or in my case i pay for it out of my national insurance contribution and employers national insurance contribution because i have to pay both.
So it's exactly like the NHS already. You pay for pet insurance (national insurance contributions) or if you're not working you go to the PDSA (use the money everybody else paid in their NI contributions).


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Vet fees are fair. If people can't afford them they shouldn't have pets or they should have insurance.
> I myself am also on benefits and pay for all my pets myself.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I am not a freeloader. I don't get myself an animal and expect other people to pay to care for it.
> Nobody forced you to get your ferret , but, having done so, why didn't you save up to get it neutered? Stop smoking, or drinking and put away that money for taking care of your own responsibilities.
> 
> ...



Thats a little hypocritical. Your on benifits but moaning about others. What if they stopped your benifits, then what would you do? Circumstances change, people lose jobs, thats what those places are there for, to help those in need. How is saying you pay for your pets with benifits any more pride worth that having some help when you and your pets are in need?

Also by being on benifits arnt others paying for your pets anyway? In a less direct way?


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I wonder why Colin keeps replying to me when he knows he's on my blocked list. It's a bit like shouting abuse down an empty alley.


i wouldnt say the people who arent blocked are having much more luck


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> :hmm:At least its off his chest, he knows nothing anyway


Oooo, I like you! hehe x


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

boromale2008 said:


> i know this is dragging an older part up but where do you shop? everything has gone up in price.
> also fenwoman, do you have private health care?


 I rarely shop. I don't b uy new stuff. I have all I need by way of 'stuff' and clothes etc. I buy my veg from the local produce auction which is all locally grown and very cheap to buy in bulk. I produce my own meat milk and eggs and bake my own cakes and biscuits. I don't 'do' shopping. My monthly supermarkey bill is around £60. I have no private health care. Have no need of it. It wouldn't cover my current health problems even if there was anything which could be done to cure them.I suppose all the national insurance money I paid all the years I worked, go to pay for the morphine I take every 4 hours which keeps me relatively pain free and able to live any sort of life.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

Meko said:


> 8 pages and it seems that i'm the only person who has a job
> 
> 
> 
> ...


theres a few here with jobs


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Oooo, I like you! hehe x


Shut it empty alley man :whip: xx


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

thanks guys


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

i work only 16 hours a week but hey its a job and i dont get paid that much i use the pdsa and leave them what i can afford but i still love my animals and im not ashamed to say that i must be poor


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> Shut it empty alley man :whip: xx


Ooo, again, again :whip: x


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

ami_j said:


> theres a few here with jobs


but nobody corrected you that the NHS isn't free...


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## boromale2008 (Feb 6, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I rarely shop. I don't b uy new stuff. I have all I need by way of 'stuff' and clothes etc. I buy my veg from the local produce auction which is all locally grown and very cheap to buy in bulk. I produce my own meat milk and eggs and bake my own cakes and biscuits. I don't 'do' shopping. My monthly supermarkey bill is around £60. I have no private health care. Have no need of it. It wouldn't cover my current health problems even if there was anything which could be done to cure them.I suppose all the national insurance money I paid all the years I worked, go to pay for the morphine I take every 4 hours which keeps me relatively pain free and able to live any sort of life.


so get rid of 20 of the 25 dogs and you might be able to afford private health care. same as people using the pdsa when pet insurance is there really.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Ooo, again, again :whip: x


How can she block you youre the funniest thing on this thread :flrt: x


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

blissfull said:


> i work only 16 hours a week but hey its a job and i dont get paid that much i use the pdsa and leave them what i can afford but i still love my animals and im not ashamed to say that i must be poor


people cant win...they lose their job or hit difficulty would be flamed to hell if they left it to suffer or got rid of their loved pet into rescues that are brimming already just cos they struggled for a month or two. but then they try getting help and get flamed for using pdsa and made to feel like second class citizens. glad the op gets by on benefits cos theres many others who struggle but then i wonder if they know shes breeding and selling animals


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

SaZzY said:


> How can she block you youre the funniest thing on this thread :flrt: x


oh so very true!
empty allyway man to the rescue!!! :no1:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

boromale2008 said:


> so get rid of 20 of the 25 dogs and you might be able to afford private health care. same as people using the pdsa when pet insurance is there really.


 
now i don't normally back fenwoman up... but.... WTF are you on about?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> How can she block you youre the funniest thing on this thread :flrt: x


 Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week!

:lol2:


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

ami_j said:


> people cant win...they lose their job or hit difficulty would be flamed to hell if they left it to suffer or got rid of their loved pet into rescues that are brimming already just cos they struggled for a month or two. but then they try getting help and get flamed for using pdsa and made to feel like second class citizens. glad the op gets by on benefits cos theres many others who struggle but then i wonder if they know shes breeding and selling animals


shes only 14 she saves her money or goes without so she can afford her animals


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

Meko said:


> but nobody corrected you that the NHS isn't free...


ok its not "free" but it comes out of the national insurance not something many think of when they need it as many are too worried about the health complaint they are there with in the first place.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

blissfull said:


> shes only 14 she saves her money or goes without so she can afford her animals


Nooo Ami_j means fenwoman...


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

blissfull said:


> shes only 14 she saves her money or goes without so she can afford her animals


which is how i was at her age and what she does if anyone cared to read that but legally the responsibility is her parents even though shes doing a fine job


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> Thats a little hypocritical. Your on benifits but moaning about others. What if they stopped your benifits, then what would you do? Circumstances change, people lose jobs, thats what those places are there for, to help those in need. How is saying you pay for your pets with benifits any more pride worth that having some help when you and your pets are in need?
> 
> Also by being on benifits arnt others paying for your pets anyway? In a less direct way?


Why would my benefits stop? I will never miraculously become un-disabled. FYI I worked every single day from the age of 16.As did my late father from the age of 14 (and he died before he got to claim his pension)and my son has worked every day from the age of 16 and now has 2 jobs as does his partner so they pay even higher taxes on the 2nd job, and my brother worked every single day from the age of 16 too. My father my son and his partner have never claimed a penny in any kind of benefit, nor did I until I lost my job in the 1980's and claimed temporarily before finding work again. I think if I asked the 4 people who paid all their lives and have never claimed, whether they begrudge me my disability benefit, they'd say no.
If I was able to work, I'd be working. I like working. When I lost my job in the 1980's as a telecommunications saleswoman, earning damn good money, I did all kinds of temporary jobs from working flipping burgers in macdonalds, to working in a pizza and kebab place, to pub work and even in a freezing cold shed before xmas, plucking and dressing turkeys.I did whatever came my way and would do so again if I was able to. However, I am not able to, and because of this, the government gives me enough money to live on and I make this go further by being very very frugal indeed. I could live like others, drink, smoke, eat out,buy new clothes, DVD's, go to the pictures etc etc and then get free vet bills, but I prefer to not do all of those things, and pay my own vet bills and save money towards them. I don't miss £10 a month. It's £2.50 a week after all, but helps, and I save 50p coins in a jar too which mount up.
It's a matter of pride for me. I am unable to work, so I feel I have some measure of pride in paying my own bills.


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## boromale2008 (Feb 6, 2008)

Meko said:


> now i don't normally back fenwoman up... but.... WTF are you on about?


she is saying that people who are using the pdsa are bums because they cant afford a proper vet and pay the huge bills, which is just the same as using the nhs when if she didnt have so many pets she would be able to go private.


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

oohhhh sorry lol havent a clue lol


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## a1dzcannon (Aug 1, 2009)

there is exotice pet insurance, going to get it soon. Seems like it will be worth it


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

boromale2008 said:


> she is saying that people who are using the pdsa are bums because they cant afford a proper vet and pay the huge bills, which is just the same as using the nhs when if she didnt have so many pets she would be able to go private.


but what about the fact you replied to a post you didn't read? she didn't say she doesn't have private insurance because she can't afford it but she doesn't have it because there's no cure for disability so there's no point having it.. a bit like insuring a dead dog.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

boromale2008 said:


> so get rid of 20 of the 25 dogs and you might be able to afford private health care. same as people using the pdsa when pet insurance is there really.


 But I don't need private health care. Why on earth would I want to pay out for something I don't need? They wouldn't cover my disability and other than that, I'm never ill.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

What about people who have worked for 20 years and then suddenly lose their job, they have little money and their pet gets sick. Are they being bums if they use the PDSA?


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

does fenwoman breed animals and sells them?coz if she does thats against the law when ur on benefits


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

boromale2008 said:


> she is saying that people who are using the pdsa are bums because they cant afford a proper vet and pay the huge bills, which is just the same as using the nhs when if she didnt have so many pets she would be able to go private.


 I would be able to go private now if I chose to. However why would I choose to? What sense would it be to pay insurance every month when they would not cover my disability?Where did I say I could not afford to have private health insurance if I chose to do so?
Would you please copy and post in a quote where I stated that people were 'bums'.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

blissfull said:


> does fenwoman breed animals and sells them?coz if she does thats against the law when ur on benefits


She breeds dogs


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

blissfull said:


> does fenwoman breed animals and sells them?coz if she does thats against the law when ur on benefits


 actually DLA is untaxed and you are still allowed to work and earn money. If I was on job seekers or anything like that, I would not be allowed to earn anything without declaring it. Not really sure how job seekers works though since I'm not on it.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Why would my benefits stop? I will never miraculously become un-disabled. FYI I worked every single day from the age of 16.As did my late father from the age of 14 (and he died before he got to claim his pension)and my son has worked every day from the age of 16 and now has 2 jobs as does his partner so they pay even higher taxes on the 2nd job, and my brother worked every single day from the age of 16 too. My father my son and his partner have never claimed a penny in any kind of benefit, nor did I until I lost my job in the 1980's and claimed temporarily before finding work again. I think if I asked the 4 people who paid all their lives and have never claimed, whether they begrudge me my disability benefit, they'd say no.
> If I was able to work, I'd be working. I like working. When I lost my job in the 1980's as a telecommunications saleswoman, earning damn good money, I did all kinds of temporary jobs from working flipping burgers in macdonalds, to working in a pizza and kebab place, to pub work and even in a freezing cold shed before xmas, plucking and dressing turkeys.I did whatever came my way and would do so again if I was able to. However, I am not able to, and because of this, the government gives me enough money to live on and I make this go further by being very very frugal indeed. I could live like others, drink, smoke, eat out,buy new clothes, DVD's, go to the pictures etc etc and then get free vet bills, but I prefer to not do all of those things, and pay my own vet bills and save money towards them. I don't miss £10 a month. It's £2.50 a week after all, but helps, and I save 50p coins in a jar too which mount up.
> It's a matter of pride for me. I am unable to work, so I feel I have some measure of pride in paying my own bills.


But still that dosn't mean people how use those organisations designed to help those on benifits care any less about their pets than you. Maybe their whole families have worked every day of their lives and never been on benifits. Although thats not how it works, its not like you get to say what happens and who recieves the money that you pay in. Benifits are benifits, they are there to help those who need them, if its to help you find work or to help you live more comfortable, they are still the same and its not a bad thing. 

On a side not, you should buy yourself some stuff. Your animals rely on you to be there and a happy owner is a good/better owner. Nobody would think you were evil and scum if you brought yourself a bottle of wine/DVD/clothes/some chocolate or whatever.


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## toxic (Jul 1, 2008)

fenwoman I see you are still spouting stupid remarks Pdsa is a good place and provide a good service. I had to go there twice with my now deceased cat and I payed them for what they did . You cant go to a vet at 9pm at night but you can with the PDSA. So please stop talking :censor: and move on.

And hope you have stopped letting your dogs eat raw meat in your house and moved them out side with it


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

toxic said:


> fenwoman I see you are still spouting stupid remarks Pdsa is a good place and provide a good service. I had to go there twice with my now deceased cat and I payed them for what they did . You cant go to a vet at 9pm at night but you can with the PDSA. So please stop talking :censor: and move on.
> 
> And hope you have stopped letting your dogs eat raw meat in your house and moved them out side with it


Love the sig! :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> On a side not, you should buy yourself some stuff. Your animals rely on you to be there and a happy owner is a good/better owner. Nobody would think you were evil and scum if you brought yourself a bottle of wine/DVD/clothes/some chocolate or whatever.


 Why on earth would I want to waste money on wine (don't drink, and if I did, I'd make my own wine)DVD(rarely get time to watch a film)clothes(I have all the clothes I need and don't want more than I need) and I hate chocolate. I don't give a damn if people thought I was evil or scum. It is irrelevant to me what people think of me. I would certainly not start wasting money in order to make people like me. I am practically self sufficient and am an environmentalist so I try hard to consume only what is essential. If I need a new item of clothing, I will go to the charity shop and get it, but if I never bought another item of clothing for the next 30 years, I would still have enough to clothe myself.
As for me being happy. I am very happy indeed. I love my life.Whether that's because I am content with my life or whether it has anything to do with the effects of the morphine, I could not say:lol2:
I'm a pretty darn good owner of animals too.My lot want for nothing and are very happy.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Love the sig! :lol2:


 haha
Empty Alley man strikes back
we need to get you a spandex costume and a cape :hmm:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Why on earth would I want to waste money on wine (don't drink, and if I did, I'd make my own wine)DVD(rarely get time to watch a film)clothes(I have all the clothes I need and don't want more than I need) and I hate chocolate. I don't give a damn if people thought I was evil or scum. It is irrelevant to me what people think of me. I would certainly not start wasting money in order to make people like me. I am practically self sufficient and am an environmentalist so I try hard to consume only what is essential. If I need a new item of clothing, I will go to the charity shop and get it, but if I never bought another item of clothing for the next 30 years, I would still have enough to clothe myself.
> As for me being happy. I am very happy indeed. I love my life.Whether that's because I am content with my life or whether it has anything to do with the effects of the morphine, I could not say:lol2:
> I'm a pretty darn good owner of animals too.My lot want for nothing and are very happy.


he was trying to be nice, y'know to make the rediculous argument stop


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

ok so its not against the law for you to breed ur dogs but u have no right in saying that ppl who use the pdsa dont take pride or care for their animals places like the pdsa are god sends to some ppl who need them in their time of need, yes there are some freeloaders who cant be arsed to get a job but not everyone who uses them are like that ,they just havent got the money to go to a private vet dont mean they care for their animals any less than u do,being on the dhss is sometimes the only way ppl can survive the ways ppl are getting layed off everyday, u should have a go at the government for making the country in the mess its in today not ppl just trying to get by on whatever means they can.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> haha
> Empty Alley man strikes back
> we need to get you a spandex costume and a cape :hmm:


I am quite tempted to go to preston to see him :lol2:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Why on earth would I want to waste money on wine (don't drink, and if I did, I'd make my own wine)DVD(rarely get time to watch a film)clothes(I have all the clothes I need and don't want more than I need) and I hate chocolate. I don't give a damn if people thought I was evil or scum. It is irrelevant to me what people think of me. I would certainly not start wasting money in order to make people like me. I am practically self sufficient and am an environmentalist so I try hard to consume only what is essential. If I need a new item of clothing, I will go to the charity shop and get it, but if I never bought another item of clothing for the next 30 years, I would still have enough to clothe myself.
> As for me being happy. I am very happy indeed. I love my life.Whether that's because I am content with my life or whether it has anything to do with the effects of the morphine, I could not say:lol2:
> I'm a pretty darn good owner of animals too.My lot want for nothing and are very happy.


LOL! and a fellow non drinker... A rare thing these days, and someone who also hates chocolate? A double hit!

It just seemed like you were going without for your pets is all.


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## toxic (Jul 1, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Love the sig! :lol2:


TRUE THAT PLAYER
:lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

toxic said:


> fenwoman I see you are still spouting stupid remarks Pdsa is a good place and provide a good service. I had to go there twice with my now deceased cat and I payed them for what they did . You cant go to a vet at 9pm at night but you can with the PDSA. So please stop talking :censor: and move on.


I can go to my vet at 9pm. I give him a call and he meets me at the surgery.



> And hope you have stopped letting your dogs eat raw meat in your house and moved them out side with it


 Why? Why does it bother you that my dogs eat in the house? Why would I want them to eat meat with bits of grit or dirt from the yard on it? That might be fine for your dogs but not for mine.
I love the fact that a few people are all concerned about what my dogs eat and where they get to eat:lol2:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

SaZzY said:


> I am quite tempted to go to preston to see him :lol2:


 hehe take some spandex and a sewing machine, then post a piccy when its finished :lol2:


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> hehe take some spandex and a sewing machine, then post a piccy when its finished :lol2:


id pay to see that lol


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Get your money out everyone............hehe


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

we need proof of piccys first


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## toxic (Jul 1, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Why? Why does it bother you that my dogs eat in the house? Why would I want them to eat meat with bits of grit or dirt from the yard on it? That might be fine for your dogs but not for mine.
> I love the fact that a few people are all concerned about what my dogs eat and where they get to eat:lol2:


I use a food bowl you can buy them from a shop :lol2:










All so I dont feed raw meat not saying it wright or wrong I just dont do it


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Here you go people.......

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/229435-promised-mrs-dd.html

:lol2:


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

toxic said:


> I use a food bowl you can buy them from a shop :lol2:
> image
> 
> 
> All so I dont feed raw meat not saying it wright or wrong I just dont do it


classic lol:no1:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Here you go people.......
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/229435-promised-mrs-dd.html
> 
> :lol2:


 OHMIGOD that is on the awesome side of things


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Here you go people.......
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/229435-promised-mrs-dd.html
> 
> :lol2:


lmao(sorry very nice spandex):lol2:


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Well done Col :no1: xx


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Love_snakes said:


> LOL! and a fellow non drinker... A rare thing these days, and someone who also hates chocolate? A double hit!
> 
> It just seemed like you were going without for your pets is all.


 Nahh I've always lived this way. I'm frugal by nature. Being frugal while I was working is what meant that I had a massive deposit to put down on my cottage 12 years ago. My piddling £46 a month mortgage is nothing really and because I'm frugal and an environmentalist, my lekkie bill is only £35 a month because I have my wood fired rayburn which runs mainly on broken pallets, and scrap wod from builders merchants and the like, so I cook, heat the downstairs, boil the kettle, and dry my laundry, mostly for free. I like to cook and bake so that's what I do daily and since I buy locally grown fruit and veg in season at the auction, I pay only £3 for a 25kg sack of spuds, 10kg of tomatoes for around 15p a kg, plums at 10p a kg, beans for 5p a kg, then I fetch them home and freeze them, bake them into pies and crumbles and cakes, and freeze them, and I make jam and bottle fruit and make chutney. All really really cheap, much cheaper than a supermarket. My meat is reared by me mainly, so for instance, the last billy goat I took to slaughter, I got back 32kg of meat all jointed and labelled, and it cost me £26. There will be more meat on the pigs when they go next month for the same price. I shall make my own sausages and ham and bacon. No real effort needed, nothing physical, just time and concentration, which I have aplenty.
I don't live what most modern town living people would consider a normal way of life, but my way keeps me occupied and means that my money goes much much further than most peoples.
I can do things at my own pace too so I do a bit, then rest, then do a bit more, then rest and baking can be done sitting down.It's a brilliant busy life.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

toxic said:


> I use a food bowl you can buy them from a shop :lol2:
> image
> 
> 
> All so I dont feed raw meat not saying it wright or wrong I just dont do it


 I don't need bowls. The kibble is fed ad lib from special hoppers. The bones and meat get put on the dog room floor and they help themselves from a pile of it. I can't imagine how I'd get a lump of tripe, rabbit carcase or a pile of bones, hearts,tongues,etc to sit all neatly in a bowl. Why is it important to have a it all neat in a shiny bowl? I don't think it makes a difference to them. Certainly I could use bowls but I would put the meat into the bowl and it would get taken out and eaten right away so what's the point?


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Here you go people.......
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/other-pets-exotics/229435-promised-mrs-dd.html
> 
> :lol2:


hope u wear it for work id walk to see that :lol2:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

haha so would i, print off the piccy and take a sharpie,


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

lol englands nxt superhero


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

blissfull said:


> hope u wear it for work id walk to see that :lol2:


I can be booked for kid's parties, 18ths, 21sts, barmitsfas............I do a good funeral.
:lol2:


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## blissfull (May 16, 2009)

sorted im scared crapless of clowns u free in november and december lol


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

blissfull said:


> sorted im scared crapless of clowns u free in november and december lol


:lol2:


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

haha i'm off to bed, jasper kitteh stayed down here with me and is fast a kip round my neck, nighty night all, don't get up to too much mischeif whilst i'm gone! xx


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I do kind of see where FW is coming from personally. I'm on benefits, but I dont use the PDSA, I put money aside. Sky's treatment cost me over £400 in the space of a fortnight, I made a payment plan (and kicked myself for not having her insured). Selkie's spay (rat) cost me £70-80ish, I pulled it together and did without "luxuries" for a few weeks.

I do think the PDSA should be about for those who genuinely need it, but nowadays people take it for granted and use it because they can. I prefer to see it as a back up plan and that's how others should see it too, instead of taking it for granted as if it's their right.

Owning pets is a privilege, if you cant afford pets - dont get them thinking "well there's always the PDSA". That's there for people who have fallen on hard times since getting their pets, not for those who were already skint and just wanted pets. If you're broke - help out at a shelter and get your animal fix there, but leave owning pets til your life is more stable.

As for 14 year olds having to save for vets bills, I would not rehome my rats to someone under 18 without their parents signing the rehoming contract to say that they are ultimately responsible. If they cannot afford a vet either I wouldn't home to them. IMO £15 or £20 isn't much for a vets consult, and if someone cant manage that, they shouldn't be keeping pets until they can.

And that's not meant as offensive - I know that people fall on hard times - I'm walking (well, on sticks!) talking proof of that. But people have to be responsible - it's one thing using the PDSA because you've become unemployed or circumstances have changed since getting your pet, its another to go out and buy/adopt a pet afterwards and rely on someone else to provide its care.

I dont mean that as nasty - just common sense. You dont go and buy a ferrari on HP when you've lost your job, so why buy a dog and rely on the PDSA?


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> I do kind of see where FW is coming from personally. I'm on benefits, but I dont use the PDSA, I put money aside. Sky's treatment cost me over £400 in the space of a fortnight, I made a payment plan (and kicked myself for not having her insured). Selkie's spay (rat) cost me £70-80ish, I pulled it together and did without "luxuries" for a few weeks.
> 
> I do think the PDSA should be about for those who genuinely need it, but nowadays people take it for granted and use it because they can. I prefer to see it as a back up plan and that's how others should see it too, instead of taking it for granted as if it's their right.
> 
> ...


I agree. 

The PDSA rely on donations from people, it's other people's goodwill that are providing for others pets when they are in need. It isn't free because someone else is paying for it just as people support other charities. The NHS isn't free because it is paid for by National Insurance. If there was to be a national health care for pets, how whould it be paid for and who would pay for it? It isn't fair to force people to pay for others animals so it has to be voluntary - as in the case of the PDSA. Someone, somewhere has to pay for these things and by using the PDSA when it may not be necessary necause someone isn't in real financial difficulty (e.g. they are still drinking/smoking/buying DVD's/going out to the cinema/eating fillet steak every night) or through buying a pet when already in financial difficulty is an insult to what the PDSA is there for and those who donate to the charity. The more people that use the PDSA unnecessarily the higher the risk of the PDSA getting slated for supporting "scroungers" and then what would happen? They lose donations and people who genuinely need help for their pets because they have suddenly lost their job/suffered an injury themselves etc are the ones who really suffer.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

Even the PDSA itself push on the issue of not buying pets UNLESS you can financially afford it!! Including any possible vet care. I think they do an excellent job and are great for unexpected and emergency situations for those that find themselves with no money in a freak situation, but people should NOT rely on them for vet care!! I actually I would go as far to say that it is a disgusting attitude to rely on a charity to pay for YOUR animals.

If you cannot afford them, don't get them in the first place and if you already have them and find yourself in that situation, you need to rehome to someone you are comfortable with that is financially able to provide.

R.e. the comments about all hours, yes you can get out of hours vets that are not the PSDA. I honestly don't think Fenwoman has said anything wrong and I can see her points. And as for raw feeding perhaps you should look into it because it is one of the healthiest options available.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

So if you lose your job you should rehome the much loved family dog because you are now gonna be poor? The PDSA should not be relied on and ppl shouldnt get amimals and think "theres always the PDSA" but if ppl fall into a bad situation they shouldnt automatically have to rehome their pets, and before anyone starts as I said above I do work!


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

SaZzY said:


> So if you lose your job you should rehome the much loved family dog because you are now gonna be poor? The PDSA should not be relied on and ppl shouldnt get amimals and think "theres always the PDSA" but if ppl fall into a bad situation they shouldnt automatically have to rehome their pets, and before anyone starts as I said above I do work!


 yeah exactly, if your parents or you lose your job, you wont want to get rid of the pet you've had most of your life, 
some people do need help paying, there is a resession, the PDSA is there to help


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> .
> I think you'll find it's what I have said several times in several posts.
> 
> .


 Ok I dont agree with the rest but here we go.

You havent said that. Your impling people who cant affrord vet bills shouldnt own them. When alot of the time its things you can handle, clipping their toenails, trimming their fur etc.........

And what you said about the people who take PDSA wasnt very nice was it.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Ok I dont agree with the rest but here we go.
> 
> You havent said that. Your impling people who cant affrord vet bills shouldnt own them. When alot of the time its things you can handle, clipping their toenails, trimming their fur etc.........
> 
> And what you said about the people who take PDSA wasnt very nice was it.


 exactly, not EVERYTHING that happens HAS to be seen by a vet


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

mattm said:


> R.e. the comments about all hours, yes you can get out of hours vets that are not the PSDA.


Yes you can, but they charge obscene amounts of money. I rang the vet at 11:00 PM a few weeks ago because my cat had fallen out of a tree and I was worried about her. They wanted to charge me £120 just to bring her in and then the consultation and any treatment would be more!!! Although I don't agree with people using the PDSA (or any other charity) just for the sake of it, I do think vets take the p*ss!


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

Lego said:


> Yes you can, but they charge obscene amounts of money. I rang the vet at 11:00 PM a few weeks ago because my cat had fallen out of a tree and I was worried about her. They wanted to charge me £120 just to bring her in and then the consultation and any treatment would be more!!! Although I don't agree with people using the PDSA (or any other charity) just for the sake of it, I do think vets take the p*ss!


Have you considered it from the other point of view. If, for example you are a plumber and get called out in the middle of the night, what would you charge? or an electrician? or a shop assistant for some kond of clothes buying related disaster? I doubt you would do it for free, and as such, the people who get up to care for your pet want to be paid for doing their job. During the day that cost is spread out over several people. overnight it is not.

tell you what - you pay my mortgage, utility and food bills, my car bills and my vet and insiracne bills, and I will GLADLY get up in the middle of the night free of charge for you when your animal is ill!


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

vetdebbie said:


> Have you considered it from the other point of view. If, for example you are a plumber and get called out in the middle of the night, what would you charge? or an electrician? or a shop assistant for some kond of clothes buying related disaster? I doubt you would do it for free, and as such, the people who get up to care for your pet want to be paid for doing their job. During the day that cost is spread out over several people. overnight it is not.
> 
> tell you what - you pay my mortgage, utility and food bills, my car bills and my vet and insiracne bills, and I will GLADLY get up in the middle of the night free of charge for you when your animal is ill!


Lol, I expected someone to write this  Sure I expect to pay a premium when my pet is ill at night, but she wasn't a one-off animal. The vets in this area work together and as such anyone who has a problem has one number to ring at night, and they are told which vets are doing the night shift for that evening. By her own admission there were at least 4 other animals in that night - and at £120 a pop (plus £30 consultation and whatever treatment is required) they are by anyone's accounts taking the Michael. Nowhere did I wrote that I expect it to be free, I just don't expect to be ripped off by people who should be in the profession to help animals rather than to charge as much as they possibly can at every available opportunity!


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

Lego said:


> Lol, I expected someone to write this  Sure I expect to pay a premium when my pet is ill at night, but she wasn't a one-off animal. The vets in this area work together and as such anyone who has a problem has one number to ring at night, and they are told which vets are doing the night shift for that evening. By her own admission there were at least 4 other animals in that night - and at £120 a pop (plus £30 consultation and whatever treatment is required) they are by anyone's accounts taking the Michael. Nowhere did I wrote that I expect it to be free, I just don't expect to be ripped off by people who should be in the profession to help animals rather than to charge as much as they possibly can at every available opportunity!


yes but the fees have to be standard - you could have been the only one in that night! And there may be other nights where no one is seen, but a vet still has to be available. So the number of other people seen is irrelevant. People are in the profession to help animals, unfortunately out of hours fees always have been and always will be high by the nature of the business. If they didn't want to help animals, they would not be available at any price!


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

but still, some of the prices are rediculously overpriced


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> but still, some of the prices are rediculously overpriced


 Give us an example?
My vets are very fair I think. On med's they will price match if I find it cheaper elsewhere and they will discount me on routine stuff like spays because I have so many animals done with them. I really can't complain at all about the prices. Dave will also save me money hwere he can for instance, when my little Feather (dog) got 'caught' when she was having her first season, I took her the next day for a misalliance injection. I mentioned that it was just my luck to have her come into season on the very day she'd been booked in for a spay. He said that the misalliance would cost as much as a spay would, and he advised me not to have it, but to book her in for a spay for a week after she was out of season, which I did. She has been spayed and Dave saved me around £80. Now he could have supplied the jab at £80, then 3 months later, made another £80 out of me on the neuter, but he didn't.
I think it has to do with the fact that barely a month passes without I'm there for some reason or other, whether basic wormers and flea treatments, or a check up, or a neuter etc. I have built up a relationship with the practice. So he helps out as much as he can because he knows that in the long run, he will get a lot of money off me over the course of a year.
If someone has one single pet and never takes it to the vet from one year to the next and the vet doesn't know them, then they will charge whatever the going rate is because they know they won't probably see the animal ever again.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I have built up a relationship with the practice. So he helps out as much as he can because he knows that in the long run, he will get a lot of money off me over the course of a year.
> If someone has one single pet and never takes it to the vet from one year to the next and the vet doesn't know them, then they will charge whatever the going rate is because they know they won't probably see the animal ever again.


 exactly, how can i have a relationship with my vet?, i've been there once!
and they will see the animal again....., especially a cat or dog, for vairous jabs ect

oh and why should i give an example, its not going to stop you being mean


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Lego said:


> Lol, I expected someone to write this  Sure I expect to pay a premium when my pet is ill at night, but she wasn't a one-off animal. The vets in this area work together and as such anyone who has a problem has one number to ring at night, and they are told which vets are doing the night shift for that evening. *By her own admission there were at least 4 other animals in that night - and at £120 a pop (plus £30 consultation and whatever treatment is required) they are by anyone's accounts taking the Michael.* Nowhere did I wrote that I expect it to be free, I just don't expect to be ripped off by people who should be in the profession to help animals rather than to charge as much as they possibly can at every available opportunity!


what do you expect them to charge? £120 for the first, £80 for the next and a tenner for any after that? or a flat rate of £30 and if there's only one call, charge them £30 and then go round for some more money in the morning because nobody else could be arsed having an ill animal?

If people think vet bills are expensive then don't get any pets.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> oh and why should i give an example, its not going to stop you being mean



Where was Fenwoman mean? 'Cause I just don't see it. :gasp:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> exactly, how can i have a relationship with my vet?, i've been there once!
> and they will see the animal again....., especially a cat or dog, for vairous jabs ect
> 
> oh and why should i give an example, its not going to stop you being mean


 I am not mean. I might say things you don't want to hear. I might point out facts. That's not being mean. To be mean you would have to be important to me that I'd want to affect you in some way. You aren't.
This is a discussion forum so if you make a statement like, "vets are overpriced" you will expect someone to join the debate and ask you to be specific and offer an example. If you refuse, or cannot give an example, it will look like you are only posting in order to gain attention or keep attention on yourself which I'm sure you aren't. So please, if you make a statement about something, you h ave to be able to quanify that stetement, otherwise it will look like you don't know what you are talking about.


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## Hoolibugs (Mar 1, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> for really poor people only though who have no pride and refuse to take responsibility for their own pets.:whistling2:


For people like me you mean who are on benefits through being disabled, and I have no pride that I fork out for pet insurance every month even though I am more than entitled to take my animals to the PDSA vet :|

Sorry only just started reading this thread, not going to bother with the rest I think.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Hoolibugs said:


> For people like me you mean who are on benefits through being disabled, and I have no pride that I fork out for pet insurance every month even though I am more than entitled to take my animals to the PDSA vet :|
> 
> Sorry only just started reading this thread, not going to bother with the rest I think.


 Perhaps you should read the thread before posting then. It might stop you looking a nitwit :lol2:
You might have noticed the bit where I urge folks to take out insurance, or where I state that I too am disabled (Scheurmanns disease) but still pay my own vet bills.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I may be entitled to cheap or free treatment from the PDSA but since I can pay my way, I leave it to those who are happy to freeload, and those who really have no other option (like very poor pensioners, or homeless people) The more people take responsibility when they are able, the more genuine cases the PDSA can help. Incidentally, the PDSA is one of the animal charities I donate to because I believe they genuinely help those who need it most, even if some scroungers on here will use them even though they could pay a private vet by doing without booze/****/takeaway meals/new things etc.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> Where was Fenwoman mean? 'Cause I just don't see it. :gasp:


have you read the whole thread?



fenwoman said:


> I am not mean. I might say things you don't want to hear. I might point out facts. That's not being mean. To be mean you would have to be important to me that I'd want to affect you in some way. You aren't.
> This is a discussion forum so if you make a statement like, "vets are overpriced" you will expect someone to join the debate and ask you to be specific and offer an example. If you refuse, or cannot give an example, it will look like you are only posting in order to gain attention or keep attention on yourself which I'm sure you aren't. So please, if you make a statement about something, you h ave to be able to quanify that stetement, otherwise it will look like you don't know what you are talking about.


i do know what i'm talking about, and why would i want to get attention? i like to be on my own, or with one of the kittys, i might not want people to know how much was forked out last time susie was hurt!
so obviously YES i do know what i'm talking about :lol2:

i don't want to be important to you anyways, i'm important to enough people


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

Lol  Be as arsey as you like, I know what I'm try to say, just a bit rubbish at putting it into words.

The reason I have such a problem with the £120 fee just for walking in the door is because I have a friend who works for the vets and he has told me that they regularly get 6+ animals in per night, and only on very, very rare occasions is it 1 or 2. They cover a large area and as such do not need to to rip people off in this manner.

Meko, just because I think what vets charge is abominable doesn't mean I shouldn't keep animals. If that were the case very few people would keep them!

Suppose this is one reason I could never be a vet, I don't have the heart to screw people over when they are in desperate need of help


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Perhaps you should read the thread before posting then. It might stop you looking a nitwit :lol2:
> *You might have noticed the bit where I urge folks to take out insurance*, or where I state that I too am disabled (Scheurmanns disease) but still pay my own vet bills.It's a matter of pride and self respect. I may be entitled to cheap or free treatment from the PDSA but since I can pay my way, I leave it to those who are happy to freeload, and those who really have no other option (like very poor pensioners, or homeless people) The more people take responsibility when they are able, the more genuine cases the PDSA can help. Incidentally, the PDSA is one of the animal charities I donate to because I believe they genuinely help those who need it most, even if some scroungers on here will use them even though they could pay a private vet by doing without booze/****/takeaway meals/new things etc.


 And then saying that if they cant their irresponsible or poor and shouldnt own animals.

It very much looked that way.


----------



## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

Lego said:


> Suppose this is one reason I could never be a vet, I don't have the heart to screw people over when they are in desperate need of help


exactly, my dad came over today and we started talking about careers, and i said i would like to be a vetinary nurse, and i would go and see the careers advisor, but thats the thing i wouldn't be able to do!


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

Id like to know who the scroungers on here are :whistling2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

you'd be a vet nurse and not a vet. You wouldn't see the money.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

so would i, please do say!
its not as if anyones held much back already is it?


----------



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Lego said:


> Lol  Be as arsey as you like, I know what I'm try to say, just a bit rubbish at putting it into words.
> 
> The reason I have such a problem with the £120 fee just for walking in the door is because I have a friend who works for the vets and he has told me that they regularly get 6+ animals in per night, and only on very, very rare occasions is it 1 or 2. They cover a large area and as such do not need to to rip people off in this manner.
> 
> ...


 Have you phoned several vets in the area to ask what their out of hours callout fee is? Might be worth making a note for next time. Also, I would assume that vets who are on callout will be on at least double time if not more. If I worked for a company and was expected to be on call and woken up, got out of bed and had to drive to work, I think I'd want some pretty hefty recompense for the hassle and inconvenience of it.
I wouldn't get out of bed for less than £120 and I'm not a vet :lol2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Meko said:


> you'd be a vet nurse and not a vet. You wouldn't see the money.


I was just going to say that in view of the years of bloody hard work vets have to get through to qualify, they are perfectly entitled to a good standard of living. If this means they are expensive - well they've earned it. The only people that vets screw over are the nurses - give them a pay rise and recognise their professionalism for goodness sake!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

SaZzY said:


> Id like to know who the scroungers on here are :whistling2:


 No idea and not really all that interested. You will notice that I for one never directed any accusation at anyone personally. I always make general statements. Sadly, people tend to assume that I am actually directing a post at them when in reality, I wasn't.
Is it something in ready meals which make everyone have thin skin and get all over sensitive?


----------



## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> have you read the whole thread?


Yes. I'm confused. I feel like Barney on an episode of Total Wipeout. :gasp:



Lego said:


> If that were the case very few people would keep them!


And that's a bad thing?


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

i would start out as a vet nurse and then go on to become a vet, or if i'm still a vet nurse and think "its not for me tbh" i'd move on and study for some of the other things i'd like to do in life


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I wouldn't get out of bed for less than £120 and I'm not a vet :lol2:


if i had to get out of bed it'd be after midnight so i'd be on double rate, that's £36 an hour


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> No idea and not really all that interested. You will notice that I for one never directed any accusation at anyone personally. I always make general statements. Sadly, people tend to assume that I am actually directing a post at them when in reality, I wasn't.
> Is it something in ready meals which make everyone have thin skin and get all over sensitive?


No I was just being curious, you said "on here" instead of scroungers in general just though maybe you had someone in mind....


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Evie said:


> I was just going to say that in view of the years of bloody hard work vets have to get through to qualify, they are perfectly entitled to a good standard of living. If this means they are expensive - well they've earned it. The only people that vets screw over are the nurses - give them a pay rise and recognise their professionalism for goodness sake!


 Hear hear. The nurses at my vet practice are flipping brilliant. They get home made mince pies at Xmas as a small token of my appreciation.
Hmm I think I'll take them one of my spice apple cakes next week.


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> Yes. I'm confused. I feel like Barney on an episode of Total Wipeout. :gasp:?


 haha, total wipeout is no place for a fluffy purple dinosaur :lol2:


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Evie said:


> I was just going to say that in view of the years of bloody hard work vets have to get through to qualify, they are perfectly entitled to a good standard of living. If this means they are expensive - well they've earned it. The only people that vets screw over are the nurses - give them a pay rise and recognise their professionalism for goodness sake!


 Yeah IF they do a good job. And I meen outstanding. Cause all ive read is how people hate vets. And how they put down healthy animals.

Getting sick of hearing it to be honest. But feeding, housing and caring is taking responsibilty.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> i would start out as a vet nurse and then go on to become a vet, or if i'm still a vet nurse and think "its not for me tbh" i'd move on and study for some of the other things i'd like to do in life


not 100% sure but i don't think being a vet is a promotion. You either study to be a vet or a vet nurse, if you're a vet nurse then you're not doing the x amount of years at uni studying to be a vet.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Yeah IF they do a good job. And I meen outstanding. Cause all ive read is how people hate vets. And how they put down healthy animals.
> 
> Getting sick of hearing it to be honest. But feeding, housing and caring is taking responsibilty.


 
that's the RSPCA. Vets don't just put down healthy animals unless somebody takes it to them and asks for it to be put down, or (i think) if it's a wild animal that can't be released.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> haha, total wipeout is no place for a fluffy purple dinosaur :lol2:


Exactly!


----------



## Exotic X (Jun 28, 2008)

akai-chan said:


> Me too >_<
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


 
Me Three...


----------



## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> some people are "poor" and still take pride and responsability, they just need to pay for things so they can live and look after them


No, what she ment was. all the going on of PDSA being FREE it is NOT!!!!! It's a donation! Those that give nothing, not even a pound. then they are worthless scum who shouldn't have pets. Having worked a short time we had people come in with more gold than Argos and still never put a penny in, then out into flash car parked up. SCUM. Selfish lying Scum.




C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Its called helping each other out. There is a reccesion and money's getting more scarse.
> 
> If their being fed, housed and looked after which they are, then they are responsible owners.


Actually the new animals act says they require more than that. Or have you not bothered to read it like many other 'we know best but it fact know jack s**t ' 



RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou said:


> oh and not EVERYONE can afford vet fees
> 
> oh and i apoligise in adivance if i get tetchy and agressive, i have a very short fuse and my life is stressful right now


Your 14. Your parents are responisble for your animals vet fees. If they are not on any means tested beniofit then you as a 14 can not go to PDSA anyway cause your parents are LEGALLY responsible. After all if RSPCA came in to prossicute, it'd not be you, it would be your parents up in court! Simple!




fern said:


> right.. well according to this thread i should just give up all my animals now, yep take them right down to the rescue centre and dump them all.. because i no longer have a job so have no money. i will be going back to college and getting £30 a week. i dont think that saying everyone on befits is in the same situation as you fenny, yes you have lots of animals but disability benefits are more than normal jsa...
> 
> when i got my rats i didnt have a mega overdraft to pay off, rent to pay, a £100 bus pass and college course materials. but i WILL NOT just pass my animals from pillar to post just because my situations have changed. i will always try my hardest to cover vets fees and luckily in the past my animals have rarely needed the vets and when they have it has been pretty minor.
> 
> the OP is 14! and trying to be responsible. people moan that children arnt taught to be responsible for animals then she says she is trying to be and she gets shot down by saying her animals are her parents, no they are animals she cares for!


:2thumb:



C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Course missing out when you said everyone is poor and doent care or take responsibilty of their pets for taking the PDSA.


No, scum take the p**s out of the PDSA. Genuine people who really need the help, will always put something in donations. Scum don't, scum want it free!. 



blissfull said:


> shes only 14 she saves her money or goes without so she can afford her animals


Then Social Services should be called in then.




boromale2008 said:


> she is saying that people who are using the pdsa are bums because they cant afford a proper vet and pay the huge bills, which is just the same as using the nhs when if she didnt have so many pets she would be able to go private.


No, wash your eyes out cause you not only can't read, but need help with understanding anything.
PDSA is not free, they relay on donations. Not freeloading scum who think they deserve everything for free so don't even put a penny in the box, let alone a few quid.




toxic said:


> I use a food bowl you can buy them from a shop :lol2:
> image
> 
> 
> All so I dont feed raw meat not saying it wright or wrong I just dont do it


F**K ME!!! I didn't even know what a bowl was! Niether does my dog when he's eating a huge half a carcus of sheep. Kinda don't fit in a bowl.



LisaLQ said:


> I do kind of see where FW is coming from personally. I'm on benefits, but I dont use the PDSA, I put money aside. Sky's treatment cost me over £400 in the space of a fortnight, I made a payment plan (and kicked myself for not having her insured). Selkie's spay (rat) cost me £70-80ish, I pulled it together and did without "luxuries" for a few weeks.
> 
> I do think the PDSA should be about for those who genuinely need it, but nowadays people take it for granted and use it because they can. I prefer to see it as a back up plan and that's how others should see it too, instead of taking it for granted as if it's their right.
> 
> ...


 
Yup, people who can't afford vet fees on a rat, shouldn't go getting another 20 and dogs and skunks and ferrets. 

The law is the law.
TUFF!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My vets are excellent. I use the same one as the sanctuary does and because of the amount of pets I have and the dealings I have with the practice through the sanctuary I get a discount. Nothing is ever to much trouble and they are such a caring practice. I cant fault them at all. I still pay an emergency call out fee but its not extortionate by any means


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Meko said:


> not 100% sure but i don't think being a vet is a promotion. You either study to be a vet or a vet nurse, if you're a vet nurse then you're not doing the x amount of years at uni studying to be a vet.


7 years to become a vet - they are probably the kids that suffered at school for being swots. I dont begrudge my vet his high standard of living. 

To qualify as a vet nurse I think you have to be working at a recognised training practice and do block release to go to college. I know of girls with a degree in vet nursing barely topping minimum wage. 

The animal industry is shockingly badly paid - makes me sick because the employers take advantage of people who are passionate about animals and pay them peanuts. I was offered a grooming job last week, but I laughed and left when they told me what they expected to pay - I could have earned the weeks wage in 2 days grooming for myself.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Evie said:


> 7 years to become a vet - they are probably the kids that suffered at school for being swots. I dont begrudge my vet his high standard of living.
> 
> To qualify as a vet nurse I think you have to be working at a recognised training practice and do block release to go to college. I know of girls with a degree in vet nursing barely topping minimum wage.
> 
> The animal industry is shockingly badly paid - makes me sick because the employers take advantage of people who are passionate about animals and pay them peanuts. I was offered a grooming job last week, but I laughed and left when they told me what they expected to pay - I could have earned the weeks wage in 2 days grooming for myself.


 
Aye, You are very correct.
It is shockingly paid. They prey upon softies who will take peanuts to say they work with animals.

Jobs I have done in the animal industry saw me earning anything from £14k to £18k but I was management for a start and had the whole weight of everything dumped on me, my 18k job well, That was starting pay for what I was doing at the time. I didn't stay long as I developed a really bad allergy to the certain animals I was caring for. And I had private health care paid for by my bosses.

Howefver, most are paid barely min wage or £30 a week yts!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Cause all ive read is how people hate vets. And how they put down healthy animals.


If it's fair to the animal it's in a vet intrest to fix animal rather than but them to sleep.Putting to sleep is a one off payment.Fixing you get more over tretment payments.

I for one know one vet that wouldn't dream of putting a heathing animal down.Even if she got no money as a result.I know she taken feral mad cats spayed/castrate'etc them.And homed them with farm houses'etc.She spay/castrate pet sutable cats give them to CPL for rehoming.Same will dogs if they cat be rehomed she will spay/castrate try to find homes.We had ferret,rats,mice,'etc'etc.Even wild animals we had lots of hedgehog,Baby birds and countless others she would take them and find the places that would do there best for them and we would do are best wile they was with us.I never see the RSPCA though:hmm:maybe she know somthing.If you couldn't afford a bill for a dog,cat'etc and the animal could be fixed you just sign the animal over and it would be fixed and rehomed.Heathy animals never got put to sleep.If somthing could be done,It was done.My life with my vet is fairly easy coz i used to work for my vet and i left on good terms.I know no matter how much the bill i can pay it back in instalments if the bill is that high that i need to.But i get charge flat rate anyway.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Where was Fenwoman mean? 'Cause I just don't see it. :gasp:


 
seconded


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

ferretman said:


> seconded


Thice more!


Now Me? I am Mean.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

To be honest I don't think anyone can be so quick to judge what a vet charges unless you have been a vet/are a qualified vet and know what the job entails. So myself included, I think we just have to choose a vet that we trust and that is charging a reasonable amount in comparison to other vets in the same area.

Just for the record, 9 times out of 10 you cannot become a vet nurse and then "go on to become a vet". You can if you have that in ADDITION to extremely good grades at GCSE, A level or a relavent diploma at Distinction level for most Universities and that is EXTREMELY high entry requirements. These are in addition to each other and not instead. It is nationally known that vet schools are extremely picky in which candidates they accept for the simple reason that they get thousands and thousands of applications and the first thing they do is weed out anyone who doesn't have straight A's. Sad but complete truth.



> So if you lose your job you should rehome the much loved family dog because you are now gonna be poor?


Yes i'm sorry but I personally think you should. In keeping the pet you are being selfish and keeping it for your own benefit. I mean come on - a few months after the pet is homed into a suitable home it will have fitted in, became extremely happy and not think about you. Don't tell me in keeping animals after a financial disaster it is of benefit to the animal in any way.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Pimperella said:


> Actually the new animals act says they require more than that. Or have you not bothered to read it like many other 'we know best but it fact know jack s**t '
> 
> 
> 
> !!


Like what?? 

Feeding, housing and love is all pets usually need. And IF they become ill then you need to think about vet bills, or the PDSA. Taking the piss as you call it is usually best for their animals. So who cares.

If their rasied carefully then they wont need the vet. Apart frommicrochipping if your afraid of it being stolen, or escaping, and a jab.

Other then that not every animal gets ill, and can be raised responsibly, on basic care.

Infact if your raising them and they dont need the vet your very responsible and capable. No one should judge who is and who isnt responsible.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

mattm said:


> To be honest I don't think anyone can be so quick to judge what a vet charges unless you have been a vet/are a qualified vet and know what the job entails. So myself included, I think we just have to choose a vet that we trust and that is charging a reasonable amount in comparison to other vets in the same area.
> 
> Just for the record, 9 times out of 10 you cannot become a vet nurse and then "go on to become a vet". You can if you have that in ADDITION to extremely good grades at GCSE, A level or a relavent diploma at Distinction level for most Universities and that is EXTREMELY high entry requirements. These are in addition to each other and not instead. It is nationally known that vet schools are extremely picky in which candidates they accept for the simple reason that they get thousands and thousands of applications and the first thing they do is weed out anyone who doesn't have straight A's. Sad but complete truth.
> 
> Yes i'm sorry but I personally think you should. In keeping the pet you are being selfish and keeping it for your own benefit. I mean come on - a few months after the pet is homed into a suitable home it will have fitted in, became extremely happy and not think about you. Don't tell me in keeping animals after a financial disaster it is of benefit to the animal in any way.


 
A friends daughter wanted a place in vet school but was told she needed VERY high grades to even be considered. Shes just got her A level results, all A`s & A*`s. Liverpool Uni have just offered her a fixed place at vet school


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Like what??
> 
> Feeding, housing and love is all pets usually need. And IF they become ill then you need to think about vet bills, or the PDSA. Taking the piss as you call it is usually best for their animals. So who cares.
> 
> ...


 
Thats like saying if your child gets ill your are a crap parent. All animals get ill at some point in there lives


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> If their rasied carefully then they wont need the vet. Apart frommicrochipping if your afraid of it being stolen, or escaping, and a jab.
> 
> .


are you then saying peopel who take there animals to the vets havent cared for their animal in the first place?


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Thats like saying if your child gets ill your are a crap parent. All animals get ill at some point in there lives


 Well if I flip the arguement, And say if you cant afford cough medicine or tablets for your child then your not capable.

Thats basically what fenwoman says.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> A friends daughter wanted a place in vet school but was told she needed VERY high grades to even be considered. Shes just got her A level results, all A`s & A*`s. Liverpool Uni have just offered her a fixed place at vet school


Yes?? As you said yourself she got A's and A*'s...and that was just for Liverpool Uni!! Royal Veterinary College etc require even more. But good on her. It is a profession I couldn't do but have had the opportunity.



> If their rasied carefully then they wont need the vet.


This attitude annoys the hell out of me :devil:. No amount of well raising or good care can prevent an animal needing a vet, it can help but emergenies do happen, things go wrong and pets get ill just as humans do.

Are you saying then, C4VEMAN-5AM, that everybody who has ever had to take their pet to the vet before has not looked after it properly? Utter bullsh*t.


----------



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Well if I flip the arguement, And say if you cant afford cough medicine or tablets for your child then your not capable.
> 
> Thats basically what fenwoman says.


no it isn't. Children never even came into the debate and since children's medicines are free under the NHS, your argument isn't even relevant.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

> And say if you cant afford cough medicine or tablets for your child then your not capable.


How is that a good example? Cough medicine is proven to be utterly useless.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> no it isn't. Children never even came into the debate and since children's medicines are free under the NHS, your argument isn't even relevant.


They were from shell. Why arent medicines and treatments free from the vet?


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

mattm said:


> How is that a good example? Cough medicine is proven to be utterly useless.


 Course it has.

Its the same but on a differnt level. As saying your irrisponsible and not capable of owning pets is wrong. I dont like how people hear they cant afford vet bills and judge them.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

mattm said:


> This attitude annoys the hell out of me :devil:. No amount of well raising or good care can prevent an animal needing a vet, it can help but emergenies do happen, things go wrong and pets get ill just as humans do.
> 
> Are you saying then, C4VEMAN-5AM, that everybody who has ever had to take their pet to the vet before has not looked after it properly? Utter bullsh*t.


In a way it can. Its unlikely to get ill if its looked after is it. I wasnt saying that either.

But I dont like the "how if you cant afford the bills you shouldnt own them". People hear that judge for themselves, and assume everythings taken a turn for the worse.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I do not judge on the basis that they cannot afford it. I judge on the basis that they cannot afford it AND yet they have pets that may need it! What if those animals get ill or need emergency treatment. NOBODY can guarantee that their pets will never have to see a vet, can they? Unless I am mistaken and there is now some kind of crystal ball you can buy on credit.

I just don't understand this attitude that people think because the PDSA, a charity recieving no government funding exists, it is OK to rely upon it. No it isn't. You would help the charity, ((and thus animals)), if you'd just not have animals in the first place that you simply cannot afford. It is quite simple really.

You seem to think people that share my view are "putting down" people with less money or in poorer situations. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just in the same way I would not go out and buy a panther because it is way out of my league and needs more than *I* can provide.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

> In a way it can. Its *unlikely* to get ill if its looked after is it. I wasnt saying that either.


I agree, unlikely, but possible. Before getting an animal a responsible pet owner looks into that animal and any POSSIBILE needs it may have in the future. One of those possible needs for ALL species is vet care.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

mattm said:


> I agree, unlikely, but possible. Before getting an animal a responsible pet owner looks into that animal and any POSSIBILE needs it may have in the future. One of those possible needs for ALL species is vet care.



i think every animal no matter how well looked after will go to the vets

all my animals are well looked after all up to date with jabs etc yet all have been to vets (minus all the reptiles) the cats im talks about


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

And instead of having the animals die, people can take the PDSA, if they cant afford it.

But it would have been more appropriate to say, "try to affrod vet bills, just as a precaution."

Rather then anyone who cant is not fit to care for them and shouldnt own them. Alot of the time you can avoid trips to the vets. And just because thats over priced doesnt make you uncapable.

Also the things she said about people who take the PDSA wasnt very nice.


----------



## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

mattm said:


> I agree, unlikely, but possible. Before getting an animal a responsible pet owner looks into that animal and any POSSIBILE needs it may have in the future. One of those possible needs for ALL species is vet care.


 I dont disagree with it.

I disagree with how their uncapable and shouldnt ever own animals.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

It's got nothing to do with the capablities of the owner in question.

Lets say a vet that has worked with animals all his life became ill, had to quit his job and live on benefits then had much less money. He can no longer afford vet fees. I would regard him to be at no more of a right to get animals than anyone else in the same situation! Although he has the experience and knowledge to look after the animal, there is no denying that vet care costs money. Money some people simply do not have.

I totally agree that the PDSA should be used in cases like what you said above, but it shouldn't come to that.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

You might have to read the whole thread again. Thats whats being implied when saying you shouldnt own pets if you cant afford its "needs" Because not always a vet is needed. 

In most cases the animals are being cared for perfectly. But then they should not have them because of not being able to pay for vet bills. Its no ones duty to judge what should happen . If they see the health of the animal is perfect, but still think they shouldnt own them, then I still disagree. Thankfully most on this thread also disagree.


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> In a way it can. Its unlikely to get ill if its looked after is it..
> 
> .





mattm said:


> I agree, unlikely, but possible. .


 
Completely agree... Rio got cancer and had to have his jaw amputated at a cost of £600 because i didn't look after him properly.



bellends.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Meko said:


> Completely agree... Rio got cancer and had to have his jaw amputated at a cost of £600 because i didn't look after him properly.
> 
> 
> 
> bellends.


Yeah i was gonna say, pets dont just get sick because of the way they are kept. Things like cancer, tumors, brain conditions etc can pop up anywhere.


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Like what??
> 
> Feeding, housing and love is all pets usually need. And IF they become ill then you need to think about vet bills, or the PDSA. Taking the piss as you call it is usually best for their animals. So who cares.
> 
> ...


Rubbish. Cant even add to that - if this is what you think, you shouldn't have animals.



C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Course it has.
> 
> Its the same but on a differnt level. As saying your irrisponsible and not capable of owning pets is wrong. I dont like how people hear they cant afford vet bills and judge them.


You dont have to like it. It's not supposed to be about how it makes YOU feel, it's supposed to be about what's best for the animal!



C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> And instead of having the animals die, people can take the PDSA, if they cant afford it.
> 
> But it would have been more appropriate to say, "try to affrod vet bills, just as a precaution."


No. It's appropriate to tell the truth, even if people dont like to hear it. If you cant afford vets bills or adequate insurance to cover them, you shouldn't be going out and getting pets. It's very different to someone who's lost their job and already had pets. If you're skint, and you cant afford your vets fees, however ridiculously or well priced, you should not be going out and getting an animal. 



C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Alot of the time you can avoid trips to the vets. And just because thats over priced doesnt make you uncapable.
> 
> Also the things she said about people who take the PDSA wasnt very nice.


Name times when you can avoid the vet. Parvo...worms...fleas....cancer....pyo...spaying... can you treat all that yourself? How about age related problems that happen to most animals. Arthritis. Organ failure. Dental issues. Will you be doing that yourself too? Even if the vets fees are higher than you want to pay - it's simple, you cant change that - so if you cant afford them, you shouldn't get the animal. Think about what you're saying!





C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> You might have to read the whole thread again. Thats whats being implied when saying you shouldnt own pets if you cant afford its "needs" Because not always a vet is needed.
> 
> In most cases the animals are being cared for perfectly. But then they should not have them because of not being able to pay for vet bills. Its no ones duty to judge what should happen . If they see the health of the animal is perfect, but still think they shouldnt own them, then I still disagree. Thankfully most on this thread also disagree.


Not what I've read. Most people agree that if you cant afford to pay for a vet, or get insurance, you shouldn't have pets until you can. And that the PDSA is great for people who already had pets before they came upon hard times, but it's not for collectors of animals who rely on it to be responsible for their addiction. Even well loved pets in perfect health can have accidents. What if your cat is hit by a car and you cant afford the fees? What about the things the PDSA wont cover?

The PDSA is there for those who need it, not just those who cant curb their urge to buy a pet for the hell of it and then rely on the PDSA to be responsible for them when they refuse to be.

I'm really shocked by this attitude (and it's not just you I'm sure, but that doesn't make it right). Do you seriously believe you should still be allowed to go out and get a dog, for example, if you cant afford a vet? It's like getting a horse and expecting it to live in your back garden to save on stabling fees. Seriously :lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Sure, it'd be nice if there was an "NHS for Pets".

Are you volunteering for a chunk of your wages to be taken before you ever see it to pay for MY pet keeping? Or are you just suggesting that *my* wages should pay for *your* pet keeping if you can't afford, off your own back, to pay for the various expenses of having a pet?

I pay not far off a THIRD of my wages every month to National Insurance/tax... and I don't really fancy paying for everyone else's pets as well as my own.

Far as it goes, if my partner and I lost our jobs tomorrow, we'd be going through our animals and deciding what we can afford to keep and what we can't bear to give up. Why? Because you don't keep pets you can't afford to take care of.

And if you can't afford to care for a pet BEFORE you have it... you don't get the pet. 

I would LOVE to have a dog. I want a dog really, really badly, and I'm an adult who doesn't have to ask a parent if I can have one. I REALLY want a dog; having a dog would make certain aspects of my life - like being afraid to be in the house alone - better. But you know what? My life isn't right for a dog - we work too many hours and would have to leave the dog alone at home for too long every day. The breeds I like aren't going to be fantastic with cats, either, so the dog would have to be confined to a small PART of the house every day. At this point we can't quite afford to build an outdoor secure kennel either. So, no matter how much I *want* ... wanting isn't getting. When our life is better arranged to have a couple of dogs in the house (which might well mean "when we're in another house in some ten years' time") ... then we will consider a dog. Until then, no.

Because wanting one, loving one, isn't enough. We have to be able to take care of it too.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

*applause*


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou (Apr 11, 2009)

you wanna know something, this thread is getting rediculous, all i did was ask a question and i started world war three, yeah maybe it would be different ifi had a gob ect, but i don't
i didn't know all this stuff yet, 
i don't have to ask for a dog, cause i know i'm not going to get one yet, it would cost too much for dogproofing, and jabs ect.

but tbh, if i can see that this thread is getting rediculous, and i don't think i'm going to post any more, then surely an adult can.. jeez give a kid a break


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Rawr, you asked a question.

Just because you don't like the answers - or didn't understand the mechanics behind how the NHS works (that it *isn't* free - everyone who works is paying for it, whether or not they use it) doesn't mean that we're all flaming you.

I think it's fantastic that you want to pay for your pets yourself. Your parents are still legally responsible for paying for necessary vet costs, though. If you're concerned about your kitty and potential vet prices, there are two things you can do:

1. *Don't let your cat go outdoors *- keep her as an indoor cat. This will ensure that she cannot get in fights with other cats (and get horrible diseases, some of which cannot be cured), does not eat wild birds and mice (that can give her worms and fleas), does not get hit by a car and doesn't tangle with dogs, get poisoned by nasty people or otherwise injured in ways that CANNOT happen to an indoor cat.
2. *Insure your cat *- so that if something DID happen (an indoor cat can still get hurt in ways you wouldn't expect; our cat Jonesy got himself caught up in a blanket and dislocated his shoulder when he rolled off the couch) you don't have hugely expensive bills to pay all at once.

Far as it goes.... 

We have well over a hundred animals (and I'm not counting snails here, I'm counting vertebrates!) We'd do BRILLIANTLY off an NHS for animals if we intended to use it... but do you want to subsidise my choice to keep so many pets?

If we couldn't afford to take each and every one of them for a vet check when necessary... we wouldn't have so many.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I'm really shocked by this attitude (and it's not just you I'm sure, but that doesn't make it right). Do you seriously believe you should still be allowed to go out and get a dog, for example, if you cant afford a vet? It's like getting a horse and expecting it to live in your back garden to save on stabling fees. Seriously :lol2:


This all starts when people judge how the pets are. If their healthy and fine then theres no problem. And no one else should say who does and doesent have the right to keep them. 

Our dogs are perfectly fine and healthy. Why?? - Because their being cared for responsibly. Theres no other reason. Im sure we could afford them, but we havent needed to take them there, for one reason their being cared for well. Frankly anyone who thinks you shouldnt own them and questions how healthy they are are :censor:. 

The funny thing is, is that people who do question how you shouldnt own them are exactly what the rspca do, and try to intimidate you. And half you doing this hate them.

Im sure there are alot of gypseys with "yard dogs" That are fine, that would be really mad right now.

I dont disagree that its a good idea to be able to pay for them. What I disagree with is how your not responsible and shouldnt own them, when clearly their still alive because your doing a good job.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

But Sam, there's a difference between:

I want to have a dog, I have a place to keep it, I can afford to feed it and if there is an emergency I can afford to pay for its vet bills

and 

I want to have a dog and I have a place to keep it, I can afford to feed it normal food* but I hope there aren't any vet bills because I can't afford them

Surely you can see that the former is fine - that getting a dog is reasonable if you know you can take care of it.... but if you know that you *can't* afford your local vet's checkup fees, let alone, say, having the dog neutered or patching up a wire tear or something that can happen to the BEST of cared for dogs.... then maybe it is not the responsible, reasonable thing to buy the dog?

As I said, I'd love to have a dog myself (and there's lots of other pets on my list too) but because I know my life doesn't allow for them (it's not a problem with MONEY in my case, it's a problem with time and attention!) it would be *irresponsible *of me to get them just because I want them. 

Note I'm not saying "If you lose your job you should give up pets you already have" - I am JUST saying "If you aren't sure you can afford vet fees BEFORE you buy a pet, either MAKE sure you can afford the vet fees OR don't buy the pet."

*Normal food being "standard stuff" as opposed to "My dog turns out to be allergic to loads of things and needs specialist foods which may be quite expensive".


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Yeah but im sick of people judging.

Whos to say they couldnt save up or arent saving up for a time if the need to use a vet? Its not fair to assume they cant straight away is it?

Or if they use the PDSA to help pay vet bills to then I dont see the problem.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

It's the difference between:

1. Losing your job through no fault of your own and needing Jobseeker's Allowance until you get a new job.

2. Deciding you aren't going to bother working, and just relying on Jobseeker's Allowance instead.

One is reasonable and responsible.
The other is reprehensible.

If you get a pet *planning to use the PDSA* because you know you aren't going to be able to save up enough money for vet bills, you're being irresponsible. The PDSA isn't there to allow animal addicts to 'have their fix' without responsibility for the costs.

If you get a pet *planning to save up for vet bills *and something really expensive comes up that you can't afford on the spot THEN that is what the PDSA is for.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Sure, it'd be nice if there was an "NHS for Pets".
> 
> Are you volunteering for a chunk of your wages to be taken before you ever see it to pay for MY pet keeping? Or are you just suggesting that *my* wages should pay for *your* pet keeping if you can't afford, off your own back, to pay for the various expenses of having a pet?
> 
> ...


 
Making the right Choice for the animal.


And Caveman. Which you quite clearly are. Go and read the animals welfare act. Cause clearly you have not. You would be at great risk of RSPCA coming in and taking everything based upon your animal keeping views. Those were years ago, the law has changed! Keep with the times instead of living in the darkages.

Keeping any animal comes with a f**k load more responsibilites than food and love. I think your stupidity and ignorance would benifit from some actual truth, read the actual Animal Act, as you seem to be making up your own.
And the fact that you think you can treat animals yourself, well IT'S AGAINST THE LAW!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Skys treatment - for age related issues (kidney failure, pancreatitis and liver failure) - blood tests, medicine, etc came to over £400 in one week. And then after all that, she had to be put to sleep. I'm on benefits, but the higher end of the scale as I'm disabled with kids. For someone on £50 a week benefits, they wouldn't have _time_ to save up - wham - pancreatitis came on suddenly, blood tests revealed other age related problems - there was no warning. Even we struggled to find the cash but we managed it as we have an understanding vet, had we been on £50 a week there's no chance she'd have had the treatment in time. Our nearest PDSA is in Bradford, and with no transport, no way of getting her there other than taxi - you're talking another £50 easily in transport costs.

Yep - the PDSA is really great for emergencies if you have no other choice, no-one's said otherwise. It's people getting their pets when they know they cant afford them then relying on someone else to pay for their treatment that is wrong.

There is a choice. You can be responsible and say "I'll wait til my life is more secure before getting a pet" or you can choose a less costly pet, or you can insure your pet. But getting a pet and saying "well if we're lucky our animals wont need treatment, and if they do then sod it, there's the PDSA"...that's irresponsible and selfish. Even the PDSA dont cover everything, and they certainly dont cover several pets in the same house. Had I been on low scale benefits with 30+ rats, a dog and a bearded dragon, I'd have been looking to rehome most of them - despite how much it would hurt, as it's simply not feasable or right to rely on charity to pay for their care.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Pimperella said:


> Making the right Choice for the animal.
> 
> 
> And Caveman. Which you quite clearly are. Go and read the animals welfare act. Cause clearly you have not. You would be at great risk of RSPCA coming in and taking everything based upon your animal keeping views. Those were years ago, the law has changed! Keep with the times instead of living in the darkages.
> ...


I didnt say that, so stop twisting my words. :bash:

I said SOMETIMES its things you can treat. If you cant say trim your pets claws for example, then really im not the stupid one.

The fact is that if their being fed and cared for you are caring for them. And your not irresponsible. People just judge and assume their not being looked after.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I cant trim my pets claws, and I certainly aint stupid. Ever tried clipping the nails of a dog who's been beaten before? Sky used to have to be sedated, muzzled and held down by 4 people before her nails could be clipped. Or those of an 82kg dog whose nails are black and you cant see the quick, let alone find any clippers strong enough to get through them?

Ignoring your responsibilities is stupid IMO, but choosing to let someone more qualified, knowledgable and frankly more practical clip your animals nails is not stupid, it's genius lol.

Who worms, defleas etc your pet? Where do you get your treatments from?


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I cant trim my pets claws, and I certainly aint stupid. Ever tried clipping the nails of a dog who's been beaten before? Sky used to have to be sedated, muzzled and held down by 4 people before her nails could be clipped. Or those of an 82kg dog whose nails are black and you cant see the quick, let alone find any clippers strong enough to get through them?
> 
> Ignoring your responsibilities is stupid IMO, but choosing to let someone more qualified, knowledgable and frankly more practical clip your animals nails is not stupid, it's genius lol.
> 
> Who worms, defleas etc your pet? Where do you get your treatments from?


Well my dogs not been beaten and neglected. Why has yours??

Ours has been treated well and is in perfect health and hasnt yet needed the vet. (health reasons. Only for a jab once, and a microchip).

So cause our dogs so healthy and friendly theres no need to take it to a vet to have its claws trimmed. Hence why they sell trimmers in shops.

You buy the worming tablets from them. You dont need to pay to have them wormed for you lol.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Well my dogs not been beaten and neglected. *Why has yours??*
> 
> Ours has been treated well and is in perfect health and hasnt yet needed the vet. (health reasons. Only for a jab once, and a microchip).
> 
> ...


CAUSE SHE HAS A F**KING RESCUE DOG YOU SAD YOU PILLOCK!

See now I don't imply that your sh*t like you do to everyone else. You quite clearly are.

You haven't read the Animal Welfare act nor have any care for it. Then you are quite simply, a bloody moron!!


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

Pimperella said:


> CAUSE SHE HAS A F**KING RESCUE DOG YOU SAD YOU PILLOCK!
> 
> See now I don't imply that your sh*t like you do to everyone else. You quite clearly are.
> 
> You haven't read the Animal Welfare act nor have any care for it. Then you are quite simply, a bloody moron!!


 She didnt make that perfectly clear. And im not. The morons are those saying your not capable of keeping pets even though their in good health.


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> *She didnt make that perfectly clear.* And im not. The morons are those saying your not capable of keeping pets even though their in good health.


Why should she have to? She wouldn't be taking the time, care and patience to trim her dogs claws if she'd been the one to beat it up in the first place! You'd have to be pretty bloody thick not to be able to work that out for yourself.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

9Red said:


> Why should she have to? She wouldn't be taking the time, care and patience to trim her dogs claws if she'd been the one to beat it up in the first place! You'd have to be pretty bloody thick not to be able to work that out for yourself.


"I cant trim the claws of my pets. Eve tried trimming the claws of a beaten dog before?"

There are some weird people out there, so anything can happen. And with that it sounded like that. She said they were HER pets. How was I to know they were rescue ones?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> *Our dogs are perfectly fine and healthy. Why?? - Because their being cared for responsibly. Theres no other reason.* Im sure we could afford them, but we havent needed to take them there, for one reason their being cared for well. Frankly anyone who thinks you shouldnt own them and questions how healthy they are are :censor:.
> 
> .


so you're saying it was my fault Rio got cancer and had to have his jaw amputated at a cost of £600? because i wasn't caring for him properly?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

All this over a question ............


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> All this over a question ............



Just what I was thinking.


Good ole' rFUK. :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Jesus Christ Caveman, I just realised, you're not just completely thick, you really are a caveman.

Go back to your cave, you uneducated pillock, and come back when your brain's thawed out.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Just what I was thinking.
> 
> 
> Good ole' rFUK. :lol2:


 Suppose its good entertainment when theres nothing of the TV:lol2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> Jesus Christ Caveman, I just realised, you're not just completely thick, you really are a caveman.
> 
> Go back to your cave, you uneducated pillock, and come back when your brain's thawed out.


 
Well, I know we disagree on lots of things but glad you agree with me on that point.


He has no care to read the Animal Welfare act, which quite clearly states that the 'basic' care just isn't enough.
Fact is f you can not afford fees should they come up, then you seriously need to rethink why you want any animal if you can not care for it when it's ill.

Totally different than someone who already has pets and hits hard times. It's the ones in hard times who go get pets who are the issue.
They want everything for free.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Jesus Christ Caveman, I just realised, you're not just completely thick, you really are a caveman.
> 
> Go back to your cave, you uneducated pillock, and come back when your brain's thawed out.


 Well its a bit harsh saying no one is responsible and shouldnt own animals because of that I think.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Harsh to who? Those who need to wake up and think of the animal first before their "need" to keep a pet? I'm not really concerned about hurting someone's feelings when their animals welfare is at stake.

Boo hoo - someone on a forum said that people who cant pay for a vet shouldn't keep them. Either shrug it off confident in the belief that you're doing your best for your pet, or take it on board and think about the animal. Dont come crying with hurt feelings.

Long day, sorry if I'm harsh but IMO animal welfare comes before hurting people's feelings.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Boo hoo - someone on a forum said that people who cant pay for a vet shouldn't keep them.


I agree, if you can't pay vets bills then you really shouldnt take on any more animals. Though having just read some of the care sheets on here there a quite a few peeps on here posting away who probably can afford their vets bills that really shouldn't be keeping their animal collections!


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

i dont agree with people saying that if your animal has benn looked after it wont need the vet.. well uhh.. my* cat got cancer and had to be put down as it was in his stomach, brain and some other places and he was very old, my rats got SDAV and needed meds from the vets (i take partial blame for this for having new rats but essentially it could have come from anywhere as i know others with rats and things anyways..) ive* also had dogs which have developed a form of epilepcy and cnacers, a ferret who got cancer in her stomach.

i do agree that for some simple things vets charge a little over.. but look how much we would all pay going privately instead of using the NHS. i wouldnt like to be on call 24hrs a day and would expect alot of money.

i do wish that there was a little more help for people with small animals as we dont have insurance and our little monsters can cost just as much as dogs and cats just in a smaller amount of time! 

i am lucky in the way that my dad was bought up, any open wounds he packs/stitches/glues/cleans (whatever is needed) himself. our vets know about this and has said that my dad isnt risking anything with the animals by doing this as he knows what he is doing.

**family pets not presonaly MY cat or MY dogs.

xx


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

C4VEMAN-5AM said:


> Well its a bit harsh saying no one is responsible and shouldnt own animals because of that I think.


You sound like my ex husband - he thought he shouldn't have to pay child support cos they don't live with him lol. He's a retard too, you'd like him. Get on well you would. 

You might BE him for all I know. If so, cough up you demented tightwad. :lol2:


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