# Why doesn't rfuk do a show!?



## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

Why doesn't RFUK do a show?

FOR RFUK members only and that means it is not open to the "public" there would be a nominal charge for RFUK members on the door. RFUK breeders could sell their surplus stock without the interference of antis because it's a private meeting and it would bring the RFUK community together. You could only gain entry if you have an RFUK profile with a minimum number of posts, to encourage forum use and discourage last minute RFUK members signing up just to gain entry.

You would just need a way of identifying people as members on the door.

I think if a good venue was found people would come and they would continue to come in future years. If it's for RFUK members only it would neutralize this ridiculous position we've found ourselves in where shows are public and therefore open to attack from antis. Membership through the RFUK forum would mean it's a private meeting with a large number of people wanting to sell and attend and buy surplus stock. 

This would make the forum popular again, popular and it would generate ongoing interest in the hobby again. This would even please the money grabbing corporate face of reptile keeping, while maintaining a private, popular breeders meeting for real reptile keepers. It could become as popular as Hamm and Houten, with European keepers joining the forum.

It would be a great way to have a show that was also a place for the RFUK community to gather.

I would add only one caveat: KEEP THE PUBLIC OUT!

Let's take our hobby back.

Yay, we're going to make RFUK great again:grin1:


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## grahamhypher (Dec 30, 2008)

I think that would be a nice idea to try, if we make it somewhere central, near me! Or Manchester kind of way? I'm up for making a couple of phone calls. What's the best month? So that there's a max number of babies to sell that have had a chance to establish?


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## lozmick (Jun 24, 2013)

Top idea make it around Plymouth as it's warmer as well as by the coast so you could all get fish n chips next to the sea after the show as a bonus. I'd say around august.


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## blurocco (Aug 17, 2016)

I think that is amazing idea well done you (Uromastyxman) for putting it out there
London is the place to be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## diesel50 (Aug 7, 2009)

I'm there sounds good to me :2thumb:


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Manchester for me as well. 

This would have been better a while who when there were thousands of us rather than five or six


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## dcap (Sep 3, 2011)

In terms of geography a show just couple of miles from Doncaster might attract some of the same breeders/keepers as the already established Doncaster show.

Looking at a map of the UK, somewhere near Swindon would probably be a better idea for a 2nd UK show as it is far enough away from Doncaster but would still serve a big population ... be close enough to London, all of South Wales, Bristol, Oxford, Southampton/Portsmouth areas, plus Worcester/Gloucester and Swindon itself. While Swindon has no redeeming features, apart from perhaps the magic roundabout, and is a sole-less place it is in a good location and has good transport links.

London is the news hub of the UK ... and media coverage is what the APA is all about, so that would probably be a bit daft, not to mention traffic.

Think one of the responders to this thread has already been looking into a regional meeting in the Scotlish highlands.

If you just want to meet/greet/date RFUK members then why not set-up an RFUK table or area at the Doncaster show.


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

Thats a good idea dcap. Swindon would be good. I know alot if people around my way (s.wales) whi dont go to doncaster because the travel. Its like 4 hours away and thats the reason i only go once a year. Mabey the orginizers of doncaster could do another one there?????


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## dcap (Sep 3, 2011)

wagg said:


> Thats a good idea dcap. Swindon would be good. I know alot if people around my way (s.wales) whi dont go to doncaster because the travel. Its like 4 hours away and thats the reason i only go once a year. Mabey the orginizers of doncaster could do another one there?????


Maybe there is a South Wales reptile/phib group that could organise this. The show they had in Newport a few years ago was at an odd time of year (not ideal for hatchling availability) and probably a bit too far from population centres. If the IHS manages to continue the Doncaster show then maybe they can get together and make a southern show?

Odd idea - but Dover might also be a good place as it might attract European breeders who don't want to add another 5 hours to their trip. But the clock is kinda ticking on that idea since that border is going to be a bit different in a few years time.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Lets do it.

Make Herpetoculture Great Again!


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## dcap (Sep 3, 2011)

ViperLover said:


> Lets do it.
> 
> Make Herpetoculture Great Again!


er, when did Herpetoculture stop being great?
did that email not get sent out too?


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

That show was in caldicot. I think there was 2 shoos by me that put it on but i heard there was problems or something and they were waiting to go to court :s not 100% sure about that. Il ask him next time i see him down there.


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

wagg said:


> That show was in caldicot. I think there was 2 shoos by me that put it on but i heard there was problems or something and they were waiting to go to court :s not 100% sure about that. Il ask him next time i see him down there.


Wasn't it Chepstow Race course and Tony Astle was convicted for selling a gecko to the public (APA) with the council watching. And it was advised not to go ahead as the affiliation to a rep society was dubious (Chris Newman told them he couldn't defend them if they went ahead). Plus didn't they call themselves South wales exotic and reptile EXPO, with no mention of society in the name, and the organiser was a shop owner. 
Pretty sure all of that is fairly accurate.


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## dcap (Sep 3, 2011)

Inventor said:


> Wasn't it Chepstow Race course and Tony Astle was convicted for selling a gecko to the public (APA) with the council watching. And it was advised not to go ahead as the affiliation to a rep society was dubious (Chris Newman told them he couldn't defend them if they went ahead). Plus didn't they call themselves South wales exotic and reptile EXPO, with no mention of society in the name, and the organiser was a shop owner.
> Pretty sure all of that is fairly accurate.


The one I went to in S.Wales was in Newport (I think), in a community centre or sports hall in a residential area. This was, 2013?


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

dcap said:


> The one I went to in S.Wales was in Newport (I think), in a community centre or sports hall in a residential area. This was, 2013?


Yes that was the Pill Millennium centre. That was the first show organised. The next one moved to Chepstow, where the court case came from.


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

I dont get it what did they do wrong. Yiu buy and sell animas at shows? Or was he a store owner or something?


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

wagg said:


> I dont get it what did they do wrong. Yiu buy and sell animas at shows? Or was he a store owner or something?


No.
You buy and sell animals at a market, and that's illegal to hold. The loophole is society members can hold meets to sell on breeding stock to other members.
The IHS do it by issuing one day memberships on the door.
The Welsh shows dumped the IHS and FBH and affiliated to another society. This is where it went wrong as the APA had already witnessed one show by them so were prepared when the arrived at the second show.


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

Aaaaa i get it. Makes sense why doncaster sell membership tickets now. I assume cattle markets are under different laws then?


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

wagg said:


> Aaaaa i get it. Makes sense why doncaster sell membership tickets now. I assume cattle markets are under different laws then?


I don't know TBH. But this is the 'problem' with shows. If they are member only, you don't get the foot fall. If they are open to the public via day membership, you enter a grey area which a lot of people are uncomfortable about. There was talk of a court case to settle it, but it turned out, not as predicted.


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

Inventor said:


> I don't know TBH. But this is the 'problem' with shows. If they are member only, you don't get the foot fall. If they are open to the public via day membership, you enter a grey area which a lot of people are uncomfortable about. There was talk of a court case to settle it, but it turned out, not as predicted.


Keep in mind that moving forward what we want is a private breeder's meeting where RFUK members can meet and socialise and sell their stock if they want to. Not a market so the people can make as much money as possible. The decision made by certain sections of the reptile community to look for loopholes to allow entry by the public to create a greater footfall, to popularise the hobby and make more money has backfired leaving nearly every meeting shut down by antis. 

The one thing protecting these meetings was that they were private meetings, the decision to turn these events into places where you can buy every reptile related item imaginable, including 8 foot high snake racks, and "Hobbyists" stalls displaying 50 different species with a combined value reaching tens of thousands of pounds was absolutely ridiculous and the decision to do this and think that we could go to court and win showed an unbelievable arrogance and naievitie on the part of the people pushing for it. These people all seem to have gone quiet now.

You can buy reptiles on the high street, P.A.H sell them, you can buy them online, through forums, Facebook etc etc and yet The breeders meetings have all gone. Well done guys, quite a legacy. Shouldn't these people be putting some effort now into reviving breeders only meetings to bring the community together? Or is there not enough financial incentive involved for them to get their backsides into gear?

I used to like meetings, I used to spend the day there 
and often return home making no purchases at all. I still miss meetings though, it was where you could meet people who were passionate about keeping reptiles, not just people who were trying to cash in and line their pockets.


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

Some interesting points there.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Also, just to throw it in. 
Quite a few have given up with the "hobby" in recent years. I am not sure everyone would attend these meets either. there is a lot of bad blood, jelousy, flaming, mudslinging around and slander of names saved right on this very forums posting history. 

Most have made there bed and just do there own thing now.
I don't bother visiting friends in shops any more because I just have grown tired of hearing people slagging one another off in various covo's about something such and such said on fb the other day too. 

It would be a good idea though if it was possible, but getting everyone to get along, put on a happy face and working toward bettering our image... improbable. LOL. 

Too much damage, too much hurt. And tbh... there are members of this very community who would love to see the abolishment of certain species kept as pets regardless, who needs the anti's.


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

I can see what you're saying, but I'm not sure the members of 18+ a few years ago accounted for the thousands in foot fall at kempton or donny.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Inventor said:


> I can see what you're saying, but I'm not sure the members of 18+ a few years ago accounted for the thousands in foot fall at kempton or donny.


This, & not even the entire membership of the forum would, or even the footfall of a smaller show like ERAC etc, because:
Not everyone on RFUK supports/supported shows, even at the height of the forum's popularity which is in the past now.

Too few still post or even visit the forum.

Many from here have quit the hobby, even among those few who still post.

No matter where the show is held, there will be those for whom the location will be a travel issue.

In order for a show to be worthwhile, there would need to be at least a hundred visitors or more- & I very much doubt if anything like that number would attend an exclusively RFUK show.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Neither this Forum, or a couple of others, I use/used can even get a day trip organised, so anything more complicated is highly unlikely :devil:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Stephen P said:


> Neither this Forum, or a couple of others, I use/used can even get a day trip organised, so anything more complicated is highly unlikely :devil:


From personal experience I can attest to that, having tried & failed to organise such day trips here twice.:bash:


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

From my personal experience, people on forums think they are the extent of exotic keeping. When in actual fact the majority of show attendees never go anywhere near forums.


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## Uromastyxman (Jan 28, 2009)

25 years ago I used to attend breeders meetings. Some people would turn up just to display their animals, like the guy who used to bring his crocodile. Breeders would sell their stock and it was exciting. Admittedly there were less people, but it wasn't supposed to be a corporate event. Regardless of who is still in the hobby and who isn't (I've never ventured into the 18 plus section) It shouldn't need a lot of people to attend because it is a breeders meeting. If people don't want to come because they're holding a grudge or feuding with people then they should stay at home and watch Songs of Praise.

What a shame that the smaller shows have been wiped out because people were pushing to turn them into big markets. Apparently turning up to a breeders meeting to catch up with people and socialise, where you could buy captive bred stock is not enough? I can buy animals and equipment via the Internet and classifieds sections. Breeders meetings were never supposed to be markets because they were not designed to be a vehicle for businesses to pitch up and make money or for "breeders" to turn up with myriad morphs and sell them for hundreds and thousands of pounds. In the old days one of the clubs would hire a hall and breeders could pay a few quid if they had some stock to sell and they'd have a table. And you could gain entry if you showed a membership card of one of the organisations specified by the organisers of the event. It was not driven by money.

Well apparently The governing bodies and clubs don't think members only meetings are worthwhile anymore? Are there any breeders meetings on the calendar for 2017? It would appear that some people were not able to draw a clear boundary between hobbyist breeders and businesses. Isn't it interesting that antis closing down shows that were deemed by the courts to be illegal markets has actually resulted in bona fide breeders meetings being discontinued as well. This is strange considering members only breeders meetings which were supposed to be social and educational events would actually be bulletproof as the antis have no legal platform to attack them from. What a shame, the antis seem to have destroyed breeders meetings as well, or did the reptile community shoot itself in the foot while it was grasping for cash.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Uromastyxman said:


> 25 years ago I used to attend breeders meetings. Some people would turn up just to display their animals, like the guy who used to bring his crocodile. Breeders would sell their stock and it was exciting. Admittedly there were less people, but it wasn't supposed to be a corporate event. Regardless of who is still in the hobby and who isn't (I've never ventured into the 18 plus section) It shouldn't need a lot of people to attend because it is a breeders meeting. If people don't want to come because they're holding a grudge or feuding with people then they should stay at home and watch Songs of Praise.
> 
> What a shame that the smaller shows have been wiped out because people were pushing to turn them into big markets. Apparently turning up to a breeders meeting to catch up with people and socialise, where you could buy captive bred stock is not enough? I can buy animals and equipment via the Internet and classifieds sections. Breeders meetings were never supposed to be markets because they were not designed to be a vehicle for businesses to pitch up and make money or for "breeders" to turn up with myriad morphs and sell them for hundreds and thousands of pounds. In the old days one of the clubs would hire a hall and breeders could pay a few quid if they had some stock to sell and they'd have a table. And you could gain entry if you showed a membership card of one of the organisations specified by the organisers of the event. It was not driven by money.
> 
> Well apparently The governing bodies and clubs don't think members only meetings are worthwhile anymore? Are there any breeders meetings on the calendar for 2017? It would appear that some people were not able to draw a clear boundary between hobbyist breeders and businesses. Isn't it interesting that antis closing down shows that were deemed by the courts to be illegal markets has actually resulted in bona fide breeders meetings being discontinued as well. This is strange considering members only breeders meetings which were supposed to be social and educational events would actually be bulletproof as the antis have no legal platform to attack them from. What a shame, the antis seem to have destroyed breeders meetings as well, or did the reptile community shoot itself in the foot while it was grasping for cash.


Even breeders shows need more than a dozen or so attendees to make the show break even, which is all you'd be likely to get from a forum members only show.


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## Inventor (Aug 31, 2007)

Uromastyxman said:


> 25 years ago I used to attend breeders meetings. Some people would turn up just to display their animals, like the guy who used to bring his crocodile. Breeders would sell their stock and it was exciting. Admittedly there were less people, but it wasn't supposed to be a corporate event. Regardless of who is still in the hobby and who isn't (I've never ventured into the 18 plus section) It shouldn't need a lot of people to attend because it is a breeders meeting. If people don't want to come because they're holding a grudge or feuding with people then they should stay at home and watch Songs of Praise.
> 
> What a shame that the smaller shows have been wiped out because people were pushing to turn them into big markets. Apparently turning up to a breeders meeting to catch up with people and socialise, where you could buy captive bred stock is not enough? I can buy animals and equipment via the Internet and classifieds sections. Breeders meetings were never supposed to be markets because they were not designed to be a vehicle for businesses to pitch up and make money or for "breeders" to turn up with myriad morphs and sell them for hundreds and thousands of pounds. In the old days one of the clubs would hire a hall and breeders could pay a few quid if they had some stock to sell and they'd have a table. And you could gain entry if you showed a membership card of one of the organisations specified by the organisers of the event. It was not driven by money.
> 
> Well apparently The governing bodies and clubs don't think members only meetings are worthwhile anymore? Are there any breeders meetings on the calendar for 2017? It would appear that some people were not able to draw a clear boundary between hobbyist breeders and businesses. Isn't it interesting that antis closing down shows that were deemed by the courts to be illegal markets has actually resulted in bona fide breeders meetings being discontinued as well. This is strange considering members only breeders meetings which were supposed to be social and educational events would actually be bulletproof as the antis have no legal platform to attack them from. What a shame, the antis seem to have destroyed breeders meetings as well, or did the reptile community shoot itself in the foot while it was grasping for cash.


We all know it's the latter. But not the community. It was the powers to be and a few select friends who we've all seen at the shows. Hobbiest with the gross turn over of a small country.:whip::bash::bash::bash:


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## wagg (Feb 6, 2014)

So jelouse of the states. They have all tho massive shows and we ve been dwindeled down to one. there doing a good job keeping it going tho.


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## Blazingbeardies (Feb 2, 2015)

This is a great idea, we don't have enough shows here in the UK. 

If this got arranged I would definitely come, both to buy and sell.
:2thumb:


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