# Leopard gecko genetics



## Sarah-Jayne

Please can someone make a topic with all the leopard gecko morphs and whether they are dominant, co-dominant or recessive? then us people with rubbish memories will be able to use it as a reference point when trying to work pairings out and stuff


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## gazz

Like this?.

Here's the bare root morphs.

Recessive
---------
Talbino.
Balbino.
Ralbino.
Patternless.
Blizzard.


Codominant.
-----------
Snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
Super snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
Giant[HETEROZYGOUS].
Super giant[HOMOZYGOUS].


Dominant.
---------
1-Copy Hypo[HETEROZYGOUS].
2-Copy Hypo[HOMOZYGOUS].
1-Copy TUG Snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
2-Copy TUG Snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
1-Copy Gem snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
2-Copy Gem snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
1-Copy Enigma[HETEROZYGOUS].
2-Copy Enigma[HOMOZYGOUS].


Polygeneic.
-----------
Aberrant.
Jungle.
Striped.
Reverse striped.
Patternless reverse striped.


Traits that can be added to morphs.
-----------------------------------
Eclipse[Recessive].
False eclipse[?Unknown?seems random].
Baldie[Polygenic].
Carrottail[Polygenetic].
Reduced spotting[Polygenic].
Super IN HYPO's[Polygenetic].
High yellow[polygeneic].
Tangerine[Polygenetic].


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## Sarah-Jayne

Yes like that, thank you very much 

I didn't know that TUG snow was dominant, I assumed it was the same as Mack snow!

What does polygenetic mean?


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## meatgecko

No Mack snow is co-dominant. I learned something to I didn't know hypo was dominant


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## Sarah-Jayne

meatgecko said:


> No Mack snow is co-dominant. I learned something to I didn't know hypo was dominant


Yes I know that mack snow is co-dominant, I was talking about TUG snow lol


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## MrMike

Polygenetic means more than one gene is in play. Poly (many) genetic (genes). So it isn't easy to predict the outcome of offspring.


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## gazz

Sarah-Jayne said:


> Yes I know that mack snow is co-dominant, I was talking about TUG snow lol


Mack snow is actually is beleaved to be Imcomplete dominant.But they haven't really make a move on changing it coz most refer to mack snow as being Codominant.

But snows are complicated anyway as you can breed a Mack snow[Imcomplete dominant/Codominant] to a TUG/Gem snow[Dominant] and get Super snow offspring.


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## Sarah-Jayne

gazz said:


> Mack snow is actually is beleaved to be Imcomplete dominant.But they haven't really make a move on changing it coz most refer to mack snow as being Codominant.
> 
> But snows are complicated anyway as you can breed a Mack snow[Imcomplete dominant/Codominant] to a TUG/Gem snow[Dominant] and get Super snow offspring.


Why do genetics have to be so complicated? lol


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## meatgecko

MrMike said:


> Polygenetic means more than one gene is in play. Poly (many) genetic (genes). So it isn't easy to predict the outcome of offspring.


Oops sorry about that will teach me not to have the old specs on lol :blush:


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## meatgecko

gazz said:


> Like this?.
> 
> Traits that can be added to morphs.
> -----------------------------------
> Eclipse[Recessive].


I understand all of what you posted except for this bit? how does it work?:crazy:


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## gazz

gazz said:


> Like this?.
> 
> Here's the bare root morphs.
> 
> Recessive
> ---------
> Talbino.
> Balbino.
> Ralbino.
> Patternless.
> Blizzard.
> 
> 
> Codominant.
> -----------
> Snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
> Super snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
> Giant[HETEROZYGOUS].
> Super giant[HOMOZYGOUS].
> 
> 
> Dominant.
> ---------
> 1-Copy Hypo[HETEROZYGOUS].
> 2-Copy Hypo[HOMOZYGOUS].
> 1-Copy TUG Snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
> 2-Copy TUG Snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
> 1-Copy Gem snow[HETEROZYGOUS].
> 2-Copy Gem snow[HOMOZYGOUS].
> 1-Copy Enigma[HETEROZYGOUS].
> 2-Copy Enigma[HOMOZYGOUS].
> 
> 
> Polygeneic.
> -----------
> Aberrant.
> Jungle.
> Striped.
> Reverse striped.
> Patternless reverse striped.
> 
> 
> Traits that can be added to morphs.
> -----------------------------------
> Eclipse[Recessive].
> False eclipse[?Unknown?seems random].
> Baldie[Polygenic].
> Carrottail[Polygenetic].
> Reduced spotting[Polygenic].
> Super IN HYPO's[Polygenetic].
> High yellow[polygeneic].
> Tangerine[Polygenetic].


Trade names.

Here's a list of trade names.That don't really give you a clue about there genetic make up.

Chocolate albino[*Dark*Talbino normal]
Tangelo[Talbino normal/Tangerine].
Tangerine tornado[Super hypo/Tangerine/Carrottail/Baldie].
Red striped[Striped/Tangerine].
Creamsicle[Super hypo/Snow/Tangerine].
Sunglow[T'B'R-albino/Super hypo/Tangerine].
Snowglow[T'B'R-albino/Super hypo/Snow/Tangerine].
Hybino[T'B'R-albino/Hypo].
Hyglow[Talbino/Jungle/Tangerine].
Yellow blizzard[High yellow/Blizzard].
Midnight blizzard[*Dark*Blizzard].
Banaana blazzing blizzard[T'B'R-albino/Blizzard/Patternless].
Bananna blizzard[Blizzard/Patternless].
Blazzing blizzard[T'B'R-albino/Blizzard].
Phantom[Talbino/TUG snow].
APTOR[Talbino/Patternless reverse striped].
RAPTOR[Talbino/Eclipse/Patternless reverse striped].
RADOR[Balbino/Eclipse/Patternless reverse striped].
Typhoon[Ralbino/Eclipse/Patternless reverse striped].
Ember[Talbino/Eclipse/Patternless].
Diablo blanco[Talbino/Eclipse/Blizzard].
Dreamsickle[Talbino/Eclipse/Snow/Enigma/Patternless reverse striped].
Nova[Talbino/Eclipse/Enigma/Patternless reverse striped].
Super nova[Talbino/Eclipse/Super snow/Enigma].
Super RAPTOR[Talbino/Eclipse/Super snow].
Total eclipse[Eclipse/Super snow].
BEE[Eclipse/Enigma/Patternless reverse striped].
Black hole[Eclipse/Snow/Enigma/Patternless reverse striped].
Raining red striped[Ralbino/Striped].


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## meatgecko

Thanks a lot I'm going to subscribe to this thread methinks


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## Sarah-Jayne

I think this should be a sticky *goes to PM a mod*


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## gazz

meatgecko said:


> I understand all of what you posted except for this bit? how does it work?:crazy:


Eclipse is a eye trait.It blacks out the iris patterning.And coz it's only a eye trait it can be bred into any exsisting leo morph.

Examples.

Eclipse normal X normal = .

Normal HET Eclipse.
----
Normal HET Eclipse X Normal HET Eclipse = .

Eclipse normal.
Normal Poss-HET Eclipse.
Normal.
----
----
Talbino Eclipse normal X Talbino patternless = .

Talbino normal HET Patternless,Eclipse. 
----
Talbino normal HET Patternless,Eclipse X Talbino normal HET Patternless,Eclipse = .

Talbino normal Poss-HET Patternless,Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse normal Poss-HET Patternless.
Talbino patternless Poss-HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse patternless.


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## meatgecko

Great stuff I understand now. I think this thread should be stickied too!:lol2: one last question I promise how does stuff like APTOR & RAPTOR work? I know they are combo morphs but if you breed RAPTORXRAPTOR would *should* get RAPTOR's? Or am I off target now?


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## kirsten

raptors are two simple recessive trait:- albino & elicpse + a poly genetic trait:- patternless stripe.

Atptor is the same, without the eclipse gene, however most are usually het for eclipse (carrying one copy of the elcipse gene).

while the eclipse and the albino can be calculated as a % chance of being passed on to offspring, the polygenetic trait is a little more difficult, and really can only be graded on quality.

so yes a raptor (Talbino eclipse, patternless stripe) X raptor (Talbino eclipse patternless stripe) will give you 100% raptors (Talbino eclipse patternless stripe), the quiality of the parents will obviously affect the quality of the babies due to the poly genetic trait of patternless stripe.


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## gazz

meatgecko said:


> if you breed RAPTORXRAPTOR would *should* get RAPTOR's? Or am I off target now?


No RAPTOR X RAPTOR will NOT result in 100%RAPTOR.It can happen but it's not likly.

A RAPTOR is a Talbino eclipse patternless revere striped.The only Two traits that are guaranteed 100% of the time in a RAPPTOR to RAPTOR breeding is Talbino and Eclipse = in Ruby eye.

Talbino eclipse patternless revere striped X Talbino eclipse patternless revere striped = .

Expected offspring. 

Talbino eclipse normal/aberrant.
Talbiino eclipse jungle.
Talbino eclipse striped.
Talbino eclipse reverse striped.

Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped<-[The only one that's RAPTOR is this combo].


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## kirsten

gazz said:


> Talbino eclipse normal/aberrant.
> Talbiino eclipse jungle.
> Talbino eclipse striped.
> Talbino eclipse reverse striped.


a lot of people would class all of those as raptor even calling normal talbino eclipse "banded raptor", which is why i talked about the quality of the patternless reverse stripe as there is no % on it. it stands to reason that two outstanding quality raptor parents will produce raptors and not normal talbino eclipse.


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## gazz

kirsten said:


> a lot of people would class all of those as raptor even calling normal talbino eclipse "banded raptor", which is why i talked about the quality of the patternless reverse stripe as there is no % on it. it stands to reason that two outstanding quality raptor parents will produce raptors and not normal talbino eclipse.


I'm not a lot of people:Na_Na_Na_Na:.I'm a do it properly or not at all person.The thing with saying banded RAPTOR/jungle RAPTOR/Striped RAPTOR is it contradicts it's self.Using normal as a exsample how can you have a BANDED Talbino eclipse PATTERNLESS reverse striped.It's either patternless or banded:whistling2:.That's why i say Talbino eclipse normal-aka-Ruby eyed Talbino.You can breed the best looking Talbino eclipse patternless reverse stripes in the world together.The problem is Patternless reverse striped is a polygenic trait and is unpredictable in it's results.You can get NO! patternless reverse striped from such a breeding not likly but possible.No matter how you spin it RAPTOR X RAPTOR dosen't result in 100% RAPTOR.It can but then again it may not.You only get a RAPTOR when you have the following trait Talbino/Eclipse/Patternless reverse striped.The rest aren't RAPTOR's.


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## kirsten

i'm not disagreeing with you, and it does annoy me something rotten when you see talbino eclipse being called "banded raptor's" etc as it ignors the whole princible of Red-eye Albino Patternless Tremper Orange. but you make it sound like it's never going to happen even with two raptors, which as you said it's most likely but not 100%. ok i know i said 100%, and maybe i shouldn't have, but i did point out that fact that only the eclipse and talbino gene can be calculated and the patternless reverse stripe is hit and miss and not exact.


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## K.J.Geckos

kirsten said:


> i'm not disagreeing with you, and it does annoy me something rotten when you see talbino eclipse being called "banded raptor's" etc as it ignors the whole princible of Red-eye Albino Patternless Tremper Orange. but you make it sound like it's never going to happen even with two raptors, which as you said it's most likely but not 100%. ok i know i said 100%, and maybe i shouldn't have, but i did point out that fact that only the eclipse and talbino gene can be calculated and the patternless reverse stripe is hit and miss and not exact.


so basicly a certain poss banded raptor is a load of rubbish then.like the one mentioned recently in a thread that gazz posted on?i knew it!can i just say also gazz your brill at the gentics stuff.can i come live with you lol


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## meatgecko

I'm going to find a mod to pm this thread tidied up a bit would make a great sticky.


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## kirsten

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> so basicly a certain poss banded raptor is a load of rubbish then.like the one mentioned recently in a thread that gazz posted on?i knew it!


 
well the definition of raptor is as i said before, they should be patternless reverse stripe. so a "banded Raptor" will be a normal talbino eclipse, missing any form of aberant/jungle and most importantly, as gazz said specifically, the patternless reverse stripe.

this is a raptor


not this:-









abarent/jungle talbino eclipse

or this

yet people claim them to be "banded raptor's"


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## K.J.Geckos

ahhh i thought so.hehe number 2 looks like my little beauty!why are people alowed to sell them though when they are not what they stated?i mean when i try sell something i try to be 100% honest with people as i like to think people will come back to me rather then someone sell me something knowing its wrong then me finding out after.i think some people forget they are animals rather then a business.sad really


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## meatgecko

How do I create a leo who is double het for say patternless and albino? would crossing a albino het patternless X patternless het albino work?


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## gazz

meatgecko said:


> How do I create a leo who is double het for say patternless and albino? would crossing a albino het patternless X patternless het albino work?


Talbino normal X Patternless = .

Normal HET Talbino,Patternless.(Double HET:2thumb.
----
----
Talbino normal HET Patternless X Patternless HET Talbino = .

Normal HET Talbino,Patternless.
Talbino normal HET Patternless.
Patternless HET Talbino.
Talbino patternless.


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## paulh

Hmm. I can use that list. A couple of questions, though.

1. Under the "Polygenic" heading, there are reverse stripe and patternless reverse stripe. Patternless is also under the "Recessive" heading. Is patternless reverse stripe the combination of patternless and reverse stripe? If so, it seems to me that patternless reverse stripe could be eliminated.

2. Seems to me that the "Traits that can be added to morphs" group is a bit of a catchall. Why not put eclipse in the "Recessive" group and the polygenic traits in the "Polygenic" group? That would leave False eclipse alone in its own section, which could be called something like "Unknown inheritance type".


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## gazz

paulh said:


> 1. Under the "Polygenic" heading, there are reverse stripe and patternless reverse stripe. Patternless is also under the "Recessive" heading. Is patternless reverse stripe the combination of patternless and reverse stripe? If so, it seems to me that patternless reverse stripe could be eliminated.


They are two differant patternless traits in no way related.
Patternless is a recessive trait.
Patternless reverse striped is a polygenic trait.




paulh said:


> 2. Seems to me that the "Traits that can be added to morphs" group is a bit of a catchall. Why not put eclipse in the "Recessive" group and the polygenic traits in the "Polygenic" group? That would leave False eclipse alone in its own section, which could be called something like "Unknown inheritance type".


I didn't put Eclipse in the recessive area as it only change's the apperance of the eye.When Talbino,Balbino,Ralbino,Blizzard,Patternless are recessive traits that change the over all apperance of a leo.I put them in a separate area regardless of the traits genetics coz they are not morphs as a whole but traits that can be added.


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## nuttybabez

A banded RAPTOR is effectively a RATOR isn't it? A banded RAPTOR would have all of the genetics found in a RAPTOR apart from the patternless gene. I am not keen on all these names for different morphs but I know Ron Tremper and Home Grown use the term Banded RAPTOR so its unlikely to go away...


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## MrMike

There isn't a single patternless gene involved with RAPTOR/APTOR. It is a selective bred reduction of a reverse stripe to give a patternless body. I personally don't like the term "Banded RAPTOR" or "Jungle RAPTOR", technically these should be RABTOR and RAJTOR


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## gazz

nuttybabez said:


> A banded RAPTOR is effectively a RATOR isn't it? A banded RAPTOR would have all of the genetics found in a RAPTOR apart from the patternless gene. I am not keen on all these names for different morphs but I know Ron Tremper and Home Grown use the term Banded RAPTOR so its unlikely to go away...


I think breeder saying Banded RAPTOR they are using to state that the leo ofcouse has RAPTOR ancestory and genetics.But also saying Ruby eye Talbino,Talbino eclipse normal also make the same statment.Any leo with eclipse trait has the same genetic history as a RAPTOR.I personally find the term Banded RAPTOR lazy and contradictive.Banded RAPTOR-aka-BANDED Ruby eyed Albino PATTERNLESS Tremper ORange.Also not all if any 'Banded RAPTOR' are orange.It's making a statment on the whole body morph when it's ONLY the eyes that express the differant trait.I mean have you ever seen a Banded APTOR.


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## MrMike

gazz said:


> I mean have you ever seen a Banded APTOR.


That says it all, hadn't thought of that.


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## K.J.Geckos

MrMike said:


> That says it all, hadn't thought of that.


some very interesting posts there.it has cleared up the whole raptor issues i was having.i now know the difference between a talbino eclipse and a raptor.:blush:

so i take it that all the people out there who sell APTOR het for raptor basically are not just understanding the genetics really with their only being a slim change of getting raptors out the breeding?so really they would only be het for talbino or poss eclipse?


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## MrMike

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> some very interesting posts there.it has cleared up the whole raptor issues i was having.i now know the difference between a talbino eclipse and a raptor.:blush:
> 
> so i take it that all the people out there who sell APTOR het for raptor basically are not just understanding the genetics really with their only being a slim change of getting raptors out the breeding?so really they would only be het for talbino or poss eclipse?


APTOR het RAPTOR basically means APTOR het Eclipse, as APTOR is RAPTOR minus the R.


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## K.J.Geckos

so i take it if you used a balbino instead of the talbino would you just get the stunning orange almost red coloration or am i completely not on the right track there?


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## Morphene

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> so i take it if you used a balbino instead of the talbino would you just get the stunning orange almost red coloration or am i completely not on the right track there?


 
I think that would be called a RADAR


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I think that would be called a RADAR


yeah i was thinking about the radar but isnt that basically what these orange/redder "raptors" are?


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## nuttybabez

Thank you MrMike, I didn't realise the patternless in RAPTORS came from reduced reverse stripe, RAPTORS ain't really my thing! 

I guess Banded RAPTOR is a bit misleading and lazy but once the big guys start using terms, they tend to stick.

There are a lot of names of newer combination morphs that confuse me cos they don't really explain what the leo is - like RADAR for example or NOVA.


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> so i take it if you used a balbino instead of the talbino would you just get the stunning orange almost red coloration or am i completely not on the right track there?


Yea you'd get a Balbino eclipse *****************************.

Here's a Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.For some reason there call ?RADAR?.Souldn't that be RAPBOR-aka-Ruby eyed Albino Patternless Bell ORange.










Balbino eclipse normal tangerne.


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## gazz

nuttybabez said:


> I guess Banded RAPTOR is a bit misleading and lazy but once the big guys start using terms, they tend to stick.


Where human not sheep:whistling2:.So we don't have to do what other humans do like sheep do:2thumb:.


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> Yea you'd get a Balbino eclipse *****************************.
> 
> Here's a Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.For some reason there call ?RADAR?.Souldn't that be RAPBOR-aka-Ruby eyed Albino Patternless Bell ORange.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balbino eclipse normal tangerne.


my god genetics is sinking into my head-thats a first:lol2:my other half has been keeping geckos the same amount of time but hes like an expert on them compared to me-just seems to pick it up easy.i knew i should of chosen gentics an breeding as my option instead of aquatics!

that gecko has to be the most stunning gecko i have ever seen.i want it!i think i have a few years breeding plans ahead of me now hmmmmm


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## Morphene

I just found a Mack Snow RADAR Enigma :lol2:

:gasp: Afra, Typhoon, Radar, and other stuff. - Geckos Unlimited

I recognize the username too...


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## Morphene

nuttybabez said:


> Thank you MrMike, I didn't realise the patternless in RAPTORS came from reduced reverse stripe, RAPTORS ain't really my thing!
> 
> I guess Banded RAPTOR is a bit misleading and lazy but once the big guys start using terms, they tend to stick.
> 
> There are a lot of names of newer combination morphs that confuse me cos they don't really explain what the leo is - like RADAR for example or NOVA.


Although there IS a 'banded _*RADAR*_' on here...

RADAR - Leopard Gecko Wiki


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I just found a Mack Snow RADAR Enigma :lol2:
> 
> :gasp: Afra, Typhoon, Radar, and other stuff. - Geckos Unlimited
> 
> I recognize the username too...


:gasp::gasp::gasph you had to go an post that didnt you!!!thats so unfair.i think i want to marry whoever bred those geckos,they are like WOW!better still can you Imagen breeding them as a super giant:gasp:-i think i just feinted


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## gazz

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I just found a Mack Snow RADAR Enigma :lol2:
> 
> :gasp: Afra, Typhoon, Radar, and other stuff. - Geckos Unlimited


Yea look it even come with yet a nother trade name:bash: Stealth:whistling2:. It's may be expressing Balbino and eclipse but it's not a RADAR coz it's not patternless reverse striped.Looks like a Balbino eclipse snow enigma jungle.


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## Morphene

gazz said:


> Yea look it even come with yet a nother trade name:bash: Stealth:whistling2:. It's may be expressing Balbino and eclipse but it's not a RADAR coz it's not patternless reverse striped.Looks like a Balbino eclipse snow enigma jungle.


 
:lol2: but stealth means it's probably like a ninja or an aeroplane or maybe it just sneaks about alot unseen - surely ?!?


so it's a 'BESEJ' morph ? COOL! :notworthy:


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## Morphene

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> :gasp::gasp::gasph you had to go an post that didnt you!!!thats so unfair.i think i want to marry whoever bred those geckos,they are like WOW!better still can you Imagen breeding them as a super giant:gasp:-i think i just feinted


Thing is it'll get to the stage where you have a super giant, super hypo tangerine carrot-tail, bandit, red snake eyed, raining red stripe - reversed of course  enigma, super snow, raptor, radar, patternless, bell, tremper, blizzard het BLUE leopard gecko !!!


EDIT: Or a 'mhjfgevhdnohvgsnekrghodrhfoerahycerhgyevinrietniche' ...for short!


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Thing is it'll get to the stage where you have a super giant, super hypo tangerine carrot-tail, bandit, red snake eyed, raining red stripe - reversed of course  enigma, super snow, raptor, radar, patternless, bell, tremper, blizzard het BLUE leopard gecko !!!
> 
> 
> EDIT: Or a 'mhjfgevhdnohvgsnekrghodrhfoerahycerhgyevinrietniche' ...for short!


my head has just gone:blowup:

greedy-gecho7 stop showing me pictures of geckos that i cant have!your getting me all excited here an its mean!so very mean!


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## gazz

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Thing is it'll get to the stage where you have a super giant, super hypo tangerine carrot-tail, bandit, red snake eyed, raining red stripe - reversed of course  enigma, super snow, raptor, radar, patternless, bell, tremper, blizzard het BLUE leopard gecko !!!
> 
> 
> EDIT: Or a 'mhjfgevhdnohvgsnekrghodrhfoerahycerhgyevinrietniche' ...for short!


Super snow will visially block out.Super hypo carrotail tangerine/Bandit/Reverse striped/Patternless reverse striped.Where not likly to see a leo that's HOMOZYGOUS Talbino,Balbino,Ralbino.Thought the leo would be HOMOZYGOUS Hypo and eclipse the super snow stops these traits being express.

Talbinobalbinoralbino eclipse super giant super snow hypo blizzardpatternless enigma HET Blue :2thumb:.


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## Morphene

gazz said:


> Super snow will visially block out.Super hypo carrotail tangerine/Bandit/Reverse striped/Patternless reverse striped.Where not likly to see a leo that's HOMOZYGOUS Talbino,Balbino,Ralbino.Thought the leo would be HOMOZYGOUS Hypo and eclipse the super snow stops these traits being express.
> 
> Talbinobalbinoralbino eclipse super giant super snow hypo blizzardpatternless enigma HET Blue :2thumb:.


 
:rotfl:

I'll take 2 please


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## gazz

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> raining red stripe - reversed of course


Raining red striped are Ralbino striped tangerine.Not reverse striped:Na_Na_Na_Na:.


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## Morphene

gazz said:


> Raining red striped are Ralbino striped tangerine.Not reverse striped:Na_Na_Na_Na:.


 
I DID know that - but I was taking the p!$$ lol 

...looks like a 'red X morph' :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## gazz

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I DID know that - but I was taking the p!$$ lol
> 
> ...looks like a 'red X morph' :Na_Na_Na_Na:


They are basically a Ralbino red striped.


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## Morphene

gazz said:


> They are basically a Ralbino red striped.


Enigma raining red stripe


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## Sarah-Jayne

I want one!!!


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## K.J.Geckos

Sarah-Jayne said:


> I want one!!!


join the que!:mf_dribble:


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## MrMike

This thread is getting awesome.


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## K.J.Geckos

there are some really stunning geckos on that thread that was posted by greedy gecko.i find it amazing at what the Americans are breeding.i mean most people seem to all hail to ron tremper an im sorry but i cant help thinking he isnt as much cop as people make out anymore.i am sure people think he is the god of geckos an dont get me wrong hes done some great stuff but when just breeders are able to produce geckos like that-i know who i would buy off in a shot.Like you say gazz "we are human not all sheep" 

its such a shame that over here in the uk people are not trying this rather then thinking they have a unique gecko an selling it the moment they can for some cash when they could take the leopard gecko so much futher an create something like this.i dont think im going to bother selling any of my gecko hatchlings anymore,im just going to breed an see what i get out of it.


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## Morphene

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> there are some really stunning geckos on that thread that was posted by greedy gecko.i find it amazing at what the Americans are breeding.i mean most people seem to all hail to ron tremper an im sorry but i cant help thinking he isnt as much cop as people make out anymore.i am sure people think he is the god of geckos an dont get me wrong hes done some great stuff but when just breeders are able to produce geckos like that-i know who i would buy off in a shot.Like you say gazz "we are human not all sheep"
> 
> its such a shame that over here in the uk people are not trying this rather then thinking they have a unique gecko an selling it the moment they can for some cash when they could take the leopard gecko so much futher an create something like this.i dont think im going to bother selling any of my gecko hatchlings anymore,im just going to breed an see what i get out of it.


 
I know not everybody agrees with 'morphs' but I would rather people produce morphs to show what can be achieved, like pushing things to the limit or expanding the bounderies further, rather than thinking "if I cross ££££ to $$$$ I can make = £$£$£$£$" 
obviously money does play many parts of breeding morphs from buying them, to keeping them, to selling them etc.

I'm still waiting for a 'glowing' leopard gecko to appear - any colour - even the 'glow in the dark' morph :whistling2:


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## nuttybabez

Wow!!! There are some real stunners on that thread Greedy-Gecho!!!!

I hatched one of these this year - mack snow radar enigma (stealth) but sadly he got enigma syndrome and had to be PTS. I have more eggs incubating from the same female but only 1 in 16 chance of getting a "stealth". Thats a silly name for a morph anyway.


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I know not everybody agrees with 'morphs' but I would rather people produce morphs to show what can be achieved, like pushing things to the limit or expanding the bounderies further, rather than thinking "if I cross ££££ to $$$$ I can make = £$£$£$£$"
> obviously money does play many parts of breeding morphs from buying them, to keeping them, to selling them etc.
> 
> I'm still waiting for a 'glowing' leopard gecko to appear - any colour - even the 'glow in the dark' morph :whistling2:


Oh yeah i agree with the whole new morphs bit but i think its wrong how people see them as an object to sell.i mean its like i say to people,you cant make a business out of selling geckos really unless your a BIG breeding company-even them sometimes fail.

Some of the new "morphs" are great but people go out their an breed them just to sell.There are gecko "breeders" popping up everywhere now with there own websites and all but they have all the normal stuff you can get anywhere so its nothing new.

i mean i would prefer to spend 3 years at least breeding something that i think was unique to my collection and to what i wanted rather then just say ooo its going to take ages to get that-hence i cant sell it in a years time when it drops eggs.

to be honest its scary what you can produce from just those first few groups of original leopard geckos that were around at the beginning.


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## Morphene

nuttybabez said:


> Wow!!! There are some real stunners on that thread Greedy-Gecho!!!!
> 
> I hatched one of these this year - mack snow radar enigma (stealth) but sadly he got enigma syndrome and had to be PTS. I have more eggs incubating from the same female but only 1 in 16 chance of getting a "stealth". Thats a silly name for a morph anyway.


 
I was wondering whether it was OK to have posted it as it's a link to another forum?
There is another American Leopard Gecko forum too - with some really nice morphs!

LOL like I said in my other post; what names are going to be next, when so many gene combos are made into one morph?
"the 10lbs of crap in a 5lb bag morph" :no1:

good luck with your other hatchlings - I think I've been lucky with my Enigma hatchlings so far


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## nuttybabez

I think its ok. They are really gorgeous! I hope we get some of them in the UK soon!

lol how on earth they come up with some of these names is beyond me. Why does a Mack Snow Radar Enigma need to be called anything but a Mack Snow Radar Enigma? Why would you call it a Stealth??

I have been corrected by my OH aswell, it was not technically a Mack Snow Radar Enigma that we hatched, it was a Mack Snow Bell Albino Enigma - no patternless gene. BUT still very very rare and the one we hatched was absolutely identical to the one on the thread - could be the same gecko! 

I was not aiming to breed Enigmas to be honest, I worry about enigma syndrome and question whether enigmas should really exist or should just be allowed to disappear....


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## forgottenEntity

How about one of these? If you're into blue.

http://www.geckotime.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/blue-leopard-gecko-project.jpg


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## Morphene

nuttybabez said:


> I think its ok. They are really gorgeous! I hope we get some of them in the UK soon!
> 
> lol how on earth they come up with some of these names is beyond me. Why does a Mack Snow Radar Enigma need to be called anything but a Mack Snow Radar Enigma? Why would you call it a Stealth??
> 
> I have been corrected by my OH aswell, it was not technically a Mack Snow Radar Enigma that we hatched, it was a Mack Snow Bell Albino Enigma - no patternless gene. BUT still very very rare and the one we hatched was absolutely identical to the one on the thread - could be the same gecko!
> 
> I was not aiming to breed Enigmas to be honest, I worry about enigma syndrome and question whether enigmas should really exist or should just be allowed to disappear....


Nah it's just 'new' thats all, plus I think it was Arkreptiles that had tests carried out to prove or disprove the 'hype' about not breeding enigmas at all - I think it came back negative that there was any genetic problem or was it that there was no nuerological problems...anyway I will continue to breed my enigma(s) & dont disagree with it myself (assuming they are healthy) Is there not more problems with ball pyhton morphs? they're still bred & sell for more money too &...seem to be getting more & more popular. I'm not going to go into the ball python morphs, as I know nearly nothing about them lol

I'm interested in this 'blue' leopard gecko ....lol & the 4th albino strain too 

I'm sure it wont be long & a few more different morphs will be popping up soon-ish...


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## Morphene

Also want to add that I really am looking forward to the 'Darth Bell' although I have said before, that I would prefer a solid red leo with solid black eyes, as I reckon it would stand out more.

I would love to see a solid red leo like this colour...


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## meatgecko

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> Also want to add that I really am looking forward to the 'Darth Bell' although I have said before, that I would prefer a solid red leo with solid black eyes, as I reckon it would stand out more.
> 
> I would love to see a solid red leo like this colour...


Thats paprika aint it?


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## Morphene

meatgecko said:


> Thats paprika aint it?


 
No - but it does rhyme


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## nuttybabez

Yeah I think there is a lot of work to be done with Enigmas. I am not saying nobody should breed them, I am just very wary about them personally.

I am also very interested in the 4th albino strain....I hope its obviously visibly different from the others as the current 3 are all beautiful and pretty easy to differentiate between.

I also can't wait til black leos are perfected and available! I sooo want one of those!!


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## meatgecko

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> No - but it does rhyme


You've lost me now. I agree though a leo in that sort of colour from head to toe would be stunning. 

I've learned quite a bit about the various combo morphs from reading this and the difference between a Talbino eclipse patternless reverse stripe (RAPTOR) and what some are calling a banded raptor. I wonder how long it will be until we see banded radars/rabors or something equally as stupid.


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## Morphene

meatgecko said:


> You've lost me now. I agree though a leo in that sort of colour from head to toe would be stunning.
> 
> I've learned quite a bit about the various combo morphs from reading this and the difference between a Talbino eclipse patternless reverse stripe (RAPTOR) and what some are calling a banded raptor. I wonder how long it will be until we see banded radars/rabors or something equally as stupid.


 










There's a link, on here somehwere, to the leopard gecko wiki with a photo of a banded RADAR 

Paprika... it was tikka powder!

How about solid red with white feet &/or tail & black eyes...


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> There's a link, on here somehwere, to the leopard gecko wiki with a photo of a banded RADAR
> 
> Paprika... it was tikka powder!
> 
> How about solid red with white feet &/or tail & black eyes...


can you explain how you get a banded radar if you cant get a banded raptor then as they are the same thing other then a talbino in the mix you have a balbino.the reverse stipe is line bred so how would it pass on if it doesnt for a raptor as that doesnt make sense


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## Morphene

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> can you explain how you get a banded radar if you cant get a banded raptor then as they are the same thing other then a talbino in the mix you have a balbino.the reverse stipe is line bred so how would it pass on if it doesnt for a raptor as that doesnt make sense


 
I was just pointing out that although gazz said there's no such thing as a banded raptor - on wiki there's a banded radar - like you say the bell is used instead so how can it be banded for one type of albino & not the other?


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## K.J.Geckos

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> I was just pointing out that although gazz said there's no such thing as a banded raptor - on wiki there's a banded radar - like you say the bell is used instead so how can it be banded for one type of albino & not the other?


see thats what i meant.it makes no sense that it would change just because of the babino?maybe its just a breeder stuck it in there on wiki.i mean lets face it the amount of time wiki can be wrong isnt hard.


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## Morphene

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> see thats what i meant.it makes no sense that it would change just because of the babino?maybe its just a breeder stuck it in there on wiki.i mean lets face it the amount of time wiki can be wrong isnt hard.


 
True but it is supposed to be an 'accurate' guide but yeah it could be a mistake or something that wasn't really understood/realized at the time?

gazz would be the one to ask though lol


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## K.J.Geckos

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> see thats what i meant.it makes no sense that it would change just because of the babino?maybe its just a breeder stuck it in there on wiki.i mean lets face it the amount of time wiki can be wrong isnt hard.


edit-so either gazz is wrong an there is such a thing as a banded raptor which i seriously doubt and the same for the radar or its true there is no such thing of banded radar or raptor


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## gazz

Banded RAPTOR and Banded RADAR are lazy trade names for a normal patterned leo that is expressing Talbino & eclipse or Balbino & eclipse.Point blank if it's NOT expessing patternless reverse striped it's NOT a RAPTOR or RADAR in any way shape or form.

In the real world there's NO! such thing as a Banded RAPTOR or RADAR.
In the land of stupid pointless trade names there is.

When i see a Banded APTOR I'll be happy to call them Banded RAPTOR.

Banded Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.

Banded Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.

How can a leo be both BANDED and PATTERNLESS ?? it's a bit double dutch and contradictive.

Real world they are.

Ruby eyed Talbino bandeds or Talbino eclipse normal.
&
Ruby eyed Balbino bandeds or Balbino eclipse normal.

If no one thinks off there own back they will alway stay as Banded RAPTOR and Banded RADAR.


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> can you explain how you get a banded radar if you cant get a banded raptor then as they are the same thing other then a talbino in the mix you have a balbino.the reverse stipe is line bred so how would it pass on if it doesnt for a raptor as that doesnt make sense


Any leo that has eclipse ancestory is Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless reverse striped,Tangerine.

Example.

Normal HET Talbino,Eclipse X jungle HET Talbno,Eclipse = .

Normal/Aberrant.
Normal/Aberrant HET Eclipse.
Normal/Aberrant HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Normal/Aberrant HET Talbino.
Eclipse normal/Aberrant.:2thumb:
Eclipse normal/aberrant HET Talbino.
Talbino normal/aberrant.
Talbino normal/aberrant HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse normal/aberrant.
Jungle.
Jungle HET Eclipse.
Jungle HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Jungle HET Talbino.
Eclipse jungle.:2thumb:
Eclipse jungle HET Talbino.
Talbino jungle.
Talbino jungle HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse jungle.
Striped.
Striped HET Eclipse.
Striped HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Striped HET Talbino.
Eclipse striped.:2thumb:
Eclipse striped HET Talbino.
Talbino striped.
Talbino striped HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse striped.
Reverse striped.
Reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Reverse striped HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Reverse striped HET Talbino.
Eclipse reverse striped.:2thumb:
Eclipse reverse striped HET Talbino.
Talbino reverse striped.
Talbino reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Talbino eclipse reverse striped.
Patternless reverse striped.
Patternless reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Patternless reverse striped HET Talbino,Eclipse.
Patternless reverse striped HET Talbino.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped.:2thumb:
Eclipse patternless reverse striped HET Talbino.
Talbino patternless reverse striped[APTOR].
Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped[RAPTOR].

Then you need to find :2thumb: ones.

Then. 

Eclipse jungle X Balbino normal = .

Normal/Aberrant HET Balbino,Eclipse/Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless reverse striped,Tangerine.

Then.

Normal/Aberrant HET Balbino,Eclipse X Normal/Aberrant HET Balbino,Eclipse = .

Normal/Aberrant.
Normal/Aberrant HET Eclipse.
Normal/Aberrant HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Normal/Aberrant HET Balbino.
Eclipse normal/Aberrant.
Eclipse normal/aberrant HET Balbino.
Balbino normal/aberrant.
Balbino normal/aberrant HET Eclipse.
Balbino eclipse normal/aberrant.
Jungle.
Jungle HET Eclipse.
Jungle HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Jungle HET Balbino.
Eclipse jungle.
Eclipse jungle HET Balbino.
Talbino jungle.
Talbino jungle HET Eclipse.
Balbino eclipse jungle.
Striped.
Striped HET Eclipse.
Striped HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Striped HET Balbino.
Eclipse striped.
Eclipse striped HET Balbino.
Balbino striped.
Balbino striped HET Eclipse.
Balbino eclipse striped.
Reverse striped.
Reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Reverse striped HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Reverse striped HET Balbino.
Eclipse reverse striped.
Eclipse reverse striped HET Balbino.
Balbino reverse striped.
Balbino reverse sreiped HET Eclipse.
Balbino eclipse reverse striped.
Patternless reverse striped.
Patternless reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Patternless reverse striped HET Balbino,Eclipse.
Patternless reverse striped HET Balbino.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Eclipse patternless reverse striped HET Balbino.
Balbino patternless reverse striped.
Balbino patternless reverse striped HET Eclipse.
Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped[RADAR].:2thumb:

All Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless reverse striped,Tangerine.


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## K.J.Geckos

wow thats a lot of genetics there!thanks for clearing that up!thats what i was saying, i couldnt see how it could be both pattenless and banded other wise it makes no sense with what im told.

i mean i know nothing really about genetics an i hold my hands up an admit that as im not ashamed.i have been breeding geckos for getting on 4 years now but i have only bred mine that were pets and what i wanted with whatever as to be honest i like the surprise that comes out at the end of it all.i dont claim to be knowledgeable in gentics or a breeder as i think there is so much to learn with all these new geckos coming out.any professional breeder even admits hes wrong sometimes.thats what keeps are hobby going!

i think im going to try do away with these stupid names.i mean i think its so much better to call them the "genetic" names an actually explain what it is your buying instead of calling it basically a jelly bean for a nice price tag.it just makes sence in my eyes sadly the whole gecko community wont see it that way though.


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## reptivet2011

Excellent info on genetics, I might remember some of it! Hopefully I can attempt to work out the morphs I create before confirming them. :lol2:


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## Mouki

gazz said:


> Banded Talbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.
> 
> Banded Balbino eclipse patternless reverse striped.


:lol2: contradiction :bash:


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