# trying to find corvids for research, please help!



## emskie (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi all, I'm hoping someone may be able to help me. I am a 3rd year psychology degree student just about to start my dissertation. I want to do this on animal intelligence and would love to study corvids for this, particularly jackdaws. 
To comply with ethics and reserach techniques I need to find captive, tame or semi tame birds in cardiff or the surrounding area. This is proving impossible as the only birds I can find are in rescue centers for rehabilitation and so are kept away from human contact. 
The study I want to do is completely harmless but obviously I cannot use birds which aren't semi used to human contact as I wouldnt want to distress them. 
Does anyone have any ideas or where I may find semi tame or tame birds??? I have tried googling and contacting everyone on various wildlife lists but to know avail. 
Any info would be greatly appreciated, many thanks all!


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## kevandshalona (Mar 30, 2009)

by using semi tame birds is the test not already false as they are acting out of the normal and in most cases actually lose intelegance as they dont have to work and think for there food .

could you not set up some tests in garden etc by feeding meat scraps regularly they will turn up and maybe put soem under plastic clear bowl and see how they try get the food etc ,

the problem i think you my face with corvids in captivity is that they are all vermin and by law if they are trapped etc they are to be dispatched by law and is actually breaking the law releasing them , hope this helps and would be good to see how you get on and what test you plan to conclude
atb
kev


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

The legal coment is complete rubbish. There is no law preventing the release of native corvids that are fit to survive it the wild. being a pest species makes no difference, only non native. I have several captive corvids but am far too far away from you. try the bbia forum, there are several corvid keepers on there, mainly jays but also other species, some of which may be closer to you. just out of intrest, what sort of tests are you planning?


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## slugsiss32 (Nov 14, 2010)

> by feeding meat scraps regularly


All you will get is rats...



> corvids in captivity is that they are all vermin and by law if they are trapped etc they are to be dispatched by law and is actually breaking the law releasing them


Not true...why are they vermin more than any other wild animal?

Anyway emskie...I pm'd you


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## emskie (Sep 20, 2011)

kevandshalona: research with wild birds would be too difficult to gain experimental consent for as it is pretty impossible to tell individuals apart with certainty.....something that is of upmost importance within my study as it involves dissociation between intelligence and trial and error learning. I know I can probably single out breeding birds due to strict territorial habits but this, unfortunately, isnt enough to satisfy psychological experimental regulations  semi tame birds would be fine as would tame birds as the argument is that some behaviour is imprinted, some copied and some, which i am looking for, is spontaneously learned through insight. The birds should be no less intelligent from being tamed realistically.


corvid2e1: it's a massive shame you are far away, do you mind me asking where? You are the kind of person I am looking for!! I will try those forums, many thanks. I am really looking for any of the "big brained" birds, just hoping for jackdaws haha! I want to recreate or partially recreate Heinrich's experiment (if you are familiar with this??) of testing insight through the "meat on a string paradigm". However, this has been done already with ravens and crows so if I can only find these species it will be a similar adaptation of these experiments.


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## kevandshalona (Mar 30, 2009)

actually as a fact it is illegal to release any vermin species back into the wild under the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1994 its the law .!! by all means you can keep them but not release them, it is also illegal to release pheasants from pens if they are not under control as most used on shoots are a non native hybryd but is a grey area if shoots can prove thay can be kept under control


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

emskie said:


> corvid2e1: it's a massive shame you are far away, do you mind me asking where? You are the kind of person I am looking for!! I will try those forums, many thanks. I am really looking for any of the "big brained" birds, just hoping for jackdaws haha! I want to recreate or partially recreate Heinrich's experiment (if you are familiar with this??) of testing insight through the "meat on a string paradigm". However, this has been done already with ravens and crows so if I can only find these species it will be a similar adaptation of these experiments.


I am in North Norfolk, so quite a drive for you! I have several jackdaws (In my opinion actuly one of the least inteligent of the corvids, even compared to the Magpie despite being a "lower" group than the typical species) as well as Jays, Magpies, Rooks and Crows. I am familier with this experrment, and have seen it quite frequently repeated, especualy with ravens, although never seen it with Jackdaws. I did half try it with a couple of my birds a while back, just as a game for them, but they were too well fed and had too much else to do so didn't bother! Good luck with it, hopfuly you can find someone in your area. If there is anything I can help with just let me know.


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## emskie (Sep 20, 2011)

I have heard many people say they believe jackdaws to show a lesser intelligence so it would be interesting to study this, especially since there seems to be no record of the Heinrich experiment with them specifically. But they are also proving to be the most difficult to find. I have been lucky enough to make many contacts but all over 130 miles away so logistically impossible!!

Thanks for all your help thus far, I am going to see my dissertation supervisor next week so when I am more clued up as to what exactly I want to do I shall probably bug you again with more questions etc


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## Circe (Dec 31, 2008)

Kevandshalona, there is no definition of vermin in law.

Lords Hansard text for 8 Oct 2003 (231008w02)

emskie, I hope you get access to the birds you want. Corvids are great.


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