# Pictures and info on the rats i got back



## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Other was locked but why im not sure well members wanted pictures and updates on them.
The blue one is dying unfortunatly shortly after pictures were taken she is gasping for air. NO slating i do not want it locked. if you wonder why there like this pm me. i had to pop them in with a mother they need milk from a mum.

So who is glad i got them and there still not there. They were all fat porkers when left.

This is the blue rat Jens which she will not get as she is i think not to make it. she is not moving at all. also had a mushy wet poo bum which i cleared up.




















This is a 5 week 3 day male rat his eyes are sunk bones visable and you cannot see balls they have shrunk far in. i have compared him to a 3 week old rat too!




































These are the two which im hoping will be fine they have a slight weight.

hairless feamle










male pink eyed white


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Oh my...those poor rats look terrible! How long were they away from you for? 
They really do look awful...im sorry you and your rats are having to go through this. :censor:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

4 days they were away. They were homed just a day under 5 weeks as they were massive babies. The others i kept is the size of my hole hand these take very little space.


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

omg the poor rats


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

So can anyone help me of a slow diet for them as they lost weight to rapid cannot pile it on. I given lactol and baby food in a small ammount blue and hairless boy cannot chew food unfortunatly too weak.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Jesus they look bad.

4 days!!!!!?????


They had no food or water at all in that time???


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

That first hairless looks awful, the poor thing! Surely xprincessx knew there was something wrong looking at him! Could he have got so emaciated in just 4 days?


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Omg how long has she had them for? That's just...I'm gobsmacked.

What have they been fed on, kept on bedding wise? I'd get a hot water bottle, heat pack, snugglesafe bed, and cover it over so they can't bite it and to prevent burns. To keep them warm.

Putting them in with a mum right is risky, not trying to slate you but they could have something infectious and make her and any babies she has ill.

Try to get them hydrated. A drop of honey in their water can sometimes entice them to drink, apple juice, or warming it up slightly.

Also at that size they may be reluctant to eat as they feel so ill. So you need a high calorie food but low in volume. Some ideas are:
Human baby foods, you can up the calorie content of these by adding nutrical,lactol or human infant soya milk.

Human complete nutrition drinks: Complan, build up, ensure.
Tinned coconut milk
Oily fish (trout, mackerel etc)
High quality wet dog/cat food (naturediet, high life)
Wholemeal bread soaked in lactol
Scrambled egg again made with lactol or infant soya milk.

The thing that is worrying me though is that they have diarrohoea, so giving them foods like the above may make it worse before it gets better, and that's if you can get the food into them.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Jesus they look bad.
> 
> 4 days!!!!!?????
> 
> ...


Thats what i was thinking, they must've just been chucked in a cage and left! 
Not questioning you by the way lover, any pics of your rats ive seen, theyve all looked lovely.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Jesus they look bad.
> 
> 4 days!!!!!?????
> 
> ...


i couldn't say that but it looks like it to me. This is why i was apologising Laura because look what im left with now i know you were truely right.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Lover said:


> So can anyone help me of a slow diet for them as they lost weight to rapid cannot pile it on. I given lactol and baby food in a small ammount blue and hairless boy cannot chew food unfortunatly too weak.


can you not liquidise his food and feed it by syringe?


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

how about some wet cat food to be honest they need to see a vet.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Do people now understand my other thread now i have living proof. If they suvive till monay im booking them in acorn vets to see if any treatment can be given the blue girls eyes are terrible her weight is discusting her hair is fluffed she has no soul left its making me cry so hard as she is innocent.

I just want help with them and support please.

I don't know what she has done to them its terrible. She still has 3 other rats i have a number from god parent to report rspca but they don't do much if it fails. My god mum is taking it futher.

edit- i was told some rich choci will help the blue as her chest is very bad its the blue and hairless boy im worried for the other two are eating the dry mix and the harder fresh food the other two have no energy to even chew.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Lots of pictures, write down everything and report her. I'm sorry but those rats are in a bloody state, that little hairless just looks so pathetic. 

You really need to get them hydrated though as a priority. Work on that first, if you can get them to eat what I've mentioned then that's brilliant, but they will need fluids in them. Melon can be quite good for dehydrated ratties.

I dunno what else I can suggest other than a vet, and i really think they need to see one.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Thats f**king disgusting!!!!!!!

That person wants shooting, ive got half a mind to do it myself 

Get the RSPCA or something on them and keep these pictures ( handy if you have todays newspaper and make the date visable !!!!!!!

Sorry im so mad after seeing these!!!!


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Lover said:


> 4 days they were away. *They were homed just a day under 5 weeks as they were massive babies*. The others i kept is the size of my hole hand these take very little space.


isnt that still far too young to rehome rats regardless of their size?? some of our rats are small, but have never left that early. i hope you can get these guys back on track at least as they dont deserve to go that way


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

The vets at PAH Stockport is open tomorrow and they are fabulous with rats - I wouldn't wait till monday


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

I think it's like the cat kitten debate. Some will home them as soon as they're weaned at 5-6 weeks. Others will wait until they're 13 weeks old till they're socialised and more fully equipped to deal with being away from mum.

If I were to breed rats I personally wouldn't home them under 6 weeks and that would be at an absolute push i'd look at more 8 weeks plus personally.

I'm so worried about these babies I don't get how they could get to that sort of state in 4 days it's just...:censor:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> isnt that still far too young to rehome rats regardless of their size?? some of our rats are small, but have never left that early. i hope you can get these guys back on track at least as they dont deserve to go that way


people say it depends on there size some split at 4 weeks from mum wait till there fine to go. That was the case here they eaten from 3 weeks on like the lot i have now in that pic its a 3 week one by next week will take my hand up they dont feed from mum now. Her nipples shrunk and are now in with these and the blue girl tries to suckle but she has no energy bless her.

edit- i had bad experience with the pets at home in stockport afraid me and my mum are banned from there.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Could you not got another relative to take them in? You need to find out if they have something infectious that they could pass to the rest of your rats.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Some foods for fattening them up:
Heavy whipped cream
Sunflower seeds
Sugar-free baby porridge
Hills A/D prescription diet (the vets will usually sell it over-the-counter for cheap if you tell them what its for)
Goats milk (only a tsp everyother day or so though)
Chicken brother baby food
Cooked pasta
Cooked brown rice
and just plenty of foods. : victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I usually keep out of these type of threads but I need to say something here as it's just common sense really.

I really don't want to be a 'do-gooder' and I appreciate that you trusted this girl to look after the babies, after all she was only down the road and could have brought them back if she was worried, but I wonder why they left before 5 weeks??
Whether they were huge babies or not I would not let my babies go at that age.
I have let them go at 6 weeks before but not before 6 weeks.

I have naked babies here at 6.5 weeks and I'm not letting them go for another week.
They are bloody huge but I still wouldn't let them go any earlier.
I also have two runty little rex bucks, not my breeding, that will be well into 10 weeks before they are ready to go.

Having said that I wish you luck in helping them and I know you will have learned a lot by this terrible experience.
I've also found that babies love the soya milk sweetend with apple juice from Asda.

Again good luck with them..


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i have my god parent but i don't want them leaving my side. They tried a feed with a mum rat she is out now and there in a small cage as the male fits threw 1 cm bar space :'( Also in my mums room now in the dark to settle and eat up and have water. They went mad at water bottle except blue i had to hold her up near it.

Thanks for advice! We are staying up threw the night give them something else in couple of hours then next lot of food in the morning.

i wasnt aware what could happed to them if i homed at 4 weeks 6 days. Now i know i will never let them go till around 6 weeks. See mine have been fine without the mum so i thought these would be fine too.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

That is disgusting I would ring the RSPCA helpline NOW, they may even get an Emergency vet locally to open up at their cost.Make sure you get a log number off them. Those poor babies. Are the rest of her pets in good condition?? It makes you wonder about her kittens too. DO SOMETHING NOW or it will be too late


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## Titch1980 (Mar 6, 2006)

Lover said:


> *i have my god parent but i don't want them leaving my side.* They tried a feed with a mum rat she is out now and there in a small cage as the male fits threw 1 cm bar space :'( Also in my mums room now in the dark to settle and eat up and have water. They went mad at water bottle except blue i had to hold her up near it.


i understand how you feel, but i think this sentence is a little selfish, you have to think of the poor babies and what they need not what you do or dont want.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> isnt that still far too young to rehome rats regardless of their size?? some of our rats are small, but have never left that early. i hope you can get these guys back on track at least as they dont deserve to go that way


I dont thinkk its too early personally. I think the only person who can judge really is the breeder as she knows what health they were in. Either way - whether these were 5 years or 5 weeks the same could of happened.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> That is disgusting I would ring the RSPCA helpline NOW, they may even get an Emergency vet locally to open up at their cost.Make sure you get a log number off them. Those poor babies. Are the rest of her pets in good condition?? It makes you wonder about her kittens too. DO SOMETHING NOW or it will be too late


I'm to affraid to speak about anything else about Jess incase thread is locked all i will say is clear animal neglect. Poor sky with severe head tilt (CAT) was outsid ran into the porch freezing. Will they maybe pay for a vet now?? i have a number i was going to wait till morning.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Get some kittten food, the tinned stuff. They arn't gonna be able to eat most of teh food listed unless it's been pureed and suringed into them they look that weak.

Again, photos with todays paper behind them, VETS TOMORROW OR NOW IF YOU CAN if they make it that long and get a report done.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

What you need to do is call the RSPCA and report her.

And get those babies to the vets who will be able to hydrate them and give them a better chance.


This is why I dislike people under a certain age being able to buy/own/breed/sell animals. And some adults for that matter too.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If its the call centre number ring it now they are open 24/7. If its not the same number you have ring 0845 555 999 and press the button for sick or injured animals then explain calmly what has happened about you taking them off a friend you can miss out all the he said she said just give them the facts and yes they may let you go now


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Get some kittten food, the tinned stuff. They arn't gonna be able to eat most of teh food listed unless it's been pureed and suringed into them they look that weak.
> 
> Again, photos with todays paper behind them, VETS TOMORROW if they make it that long and get a report done.


 
Thanks i will see if i can get to emergancy vet since it is sunday. I have batryl are they ok to have it they are over 5 week now. I always have batryl on hand newly bought just incase. They have some deep cuts too. 
I could give a very long list on what jess has done wrong with her pets.


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## Titch1980 (Mar 6, 2006)

i would ring the emergency number, see what they say


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> If its the call centre number ring it now they are open 24/7. If its not the same number you have ring 0845 555 999 and press the button for sick or injured animals then explain calmly what has happened about you taking them off a friend you can miss out all the he said she said just give them the facts and yes they may let you go now


 
Thanks i had a 0800 number and it was for reporting animal cruelty. My auntie said they will come to me to see these rats too and the pictures i took. Im getting one with the newspaper in on phone too. what is the number actualy for aswell may i ask so i know what im calling lol!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If the little ones wont feed I would only be inclined to give them rehydrate fluid or glucose/water or you can make a solution as food might make them worse


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> If the little ones wont feed I would only be inclined to give them rehydrate fluid or glucose/water or you can make a solution as food might make them worse


 
i have glucose water because my dog is diabetic we bought some incase she fits like she has once.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Lover said:


> Thanks i had a 0800 number and it was for reporting animal cruelty. My auntie said they will come to me to see these rats too and the pictures i took. *Im getting one with the newspaper in on phone too*. what is the number actualy for aswell may i ask so i know what im calling lol!


Good because it will help a hell of a lot if they take it futher which hopefully they will.

You may need to find some pictures of what they were like before they left ( if you have any ).

Although i have little faith in the RSPCA i really do hope they pull their finger out. :devil:


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## gecko_steve (May 14, 2008)

Poor rat babies nothing deserves to be treated like that report the owner to the RSPCA. I cant understand how people can do this to animals 
p:censor: me off so much.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i do have pictures they were just over 2 weeks though and were bigger than the size now. i do have some pictures of all the litter. I have 7 from the litter they can view 2 of my aunts and 5 we kept. As for the blue girl i have her sister to show the size difference.
I'm trying to ring Jen her phone if off does anyone have jonny's phone number. She needs to know how things are.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

That is the RSPCA helpline number I gave you and it is actually cruelty. You need to tell them how it is. When we get starved kittens/cats in we warm them up then rehydrate them before even offering food. Maybe after you have done this you could offer a chicken based baby food and see if they will eat it/ Also if you are offering them Lactol use double the amount of water for the first few feeds its much gentler on the stomach


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## elle1331 (Mar 19, 2007)

aw babe im sorry you have to go through all this and now understand what you were saying in those pm's. All the best of luck with the wee rats x x


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Thanks shell i shal be ringing that if this blue rat does not eat suggested foods. Good job we went shopping we have most the things people told us to feed her. The hairless boy if being playful very good sign! so im waiting for bluey to pick up its her nickname as i hate 'blue rat' and the hairless boy is nicknamed naked. Just so i dont have to talk to them like there worthless.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm amamzed that they have lost that much weight while the other hairless and the siamese seem to have more weight on them? to me they look like they have gone longer without food, or they were not ready to be weaned, with the russian blue and hairless boy I think they kindest thing would be to cull Its harsh I know, but in that condition I doubt they would survive.

good luck with the others.
Clare


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i couldn't cull them! the two weak one are the ones which were slightly smaller not by much. Even Jen saw them the day they went to jess nice and fat. 
I want them to have a chance if things go worse i will consider them being pts. It's up to Jen for me to do it with blue girl its hers.

edit- the siamese on picture is my 3 week old rat.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

pictures as small porkers just under 3 weeks. NOW Nakid is around about a 2week old rat maybe smaller to be honest same with bluey.

The two whites 









Being sleepy.









Looking ever so cute.









Giving kisses


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

poor ratties they must of been starved


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Dam shame for them, I was wanting to say they looked like they should be culled so I'll back up Clare (Bosshogg) on that as she and me have been chatting and she gets jumped on fer it then I'm at her side.


Give them the Gloucose every 20 mins, This will mean your gonna be up all night, but they are gonna need it.

You will need to report Xprincessx to the RSPCA about this. Friend or Foe, She has starved those babies and they have suffered because of it.

If they are in this state then I fear for her other animals, of which she has many, as it can't be just those Rats you have, that are in this state.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Dam shame for them, I was wanting to say they looked like they should be culled so I'll back up Clare (Bosshogg) on that as she and me have been chatting and she gets jumped on fer it then I'm at her side.
> 
> 
> Give them the Gloucose every 20 mins, This will mean your gonna be up all night, but they are gonna need it.
> ...


 
She is no longer a friend from this if she was a friend she would care for them and love them to bits not neglect and backstab me.

i am DEFINATLY reporting as i cannot live without reporting her knowing something is done.

edit- im just going to give the glucose water now xx


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Pimperella said:


> Dam shame for them, I was wanting to say they looked like they should be culled so I'll back up Clare (Bosshogg) on that as she and me have been chatting and she gets jumped on fer it then I'm at her side.
> 
> 
> Give them the Gloucose every 20 mins, This will mean your gonna be up all night, but they are gonna need it.
> ...


 
Laura i have pm'd you : victory:


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

Oh the poor little mites, the hairless and the blue looks a dreadful state, I think thats one of the worst rat cruelty cases ive ever seen, im with bosshogg and pimp on culling them tbh, im sorry but they look too far gone and more than likely in pain


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Lover said:


> She is no longer a friend from this if she was a friend she would care for them and love them to bits not neglect and backstab me.
> 
> i am DEFINATLY reporting as i cannot live without reporting her knowing something is done.
> 
> edit- im just going to give the glucose water now xx


 
if your gonna call the RSPCA you need to do it the day you get them back so they can see the poor state they are in : victory:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I agree with Emma it needs to be done NOW. Have u managed to get in touch with Jen yet?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I agree with Emma it needs to be done NOW. Have u managed to get in touch with Jen yet?


they have a 24 hour animal cruelty line so call that dont wait till they are open otherwise it will be too late : victory:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive given her the number for that already


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Ive given her the number for that already


your on the ball : victory:

i was kinda distracted watching underworld :blush::lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I like that film:no1:
I do wonder if these baby rats have been changed to another diet to fast and they couldnt cope so got diaorreah then got dehydrated which is life threatening if left untreated


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

There picking up bluey is eating solids! so pleased i think they were chilly aswell they were in a freezing porch for 30 mins.

Jens phone still switched off need Jonny's number to get hole of her she is at her mums till tuesday.

I think there ok to go on till tomorrow as ther looking brighter and not just sitting there. Was gone a while to watch them.
I will be reporting when i wake up and my god parent is round tomorrow she might be taking them as she is a foster for rspca anyway.
If the report goes no where my god parent knows some of there workers. She will call if im not happy as she saw the pictures and was totaly discusted.

That glucose water did its job and she is now alot brighter lookin aware and eating also having a play with the pink eyed white.

It does look like the diet was just poor tbh as there skin was very pully and like flab dangly as i checked when arrived its not alot tighter but sringing them water like every 10 mins. The blue girl was obsessed with glucose water.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I like that film:no1:
> I do wonder if these baby rats have been changed to another diet to fast and they couldnt cope so got diaorreah then got dehydrated which is life threatening if left untreated


Someone has there thinking head on tonight :lol2:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

You know what though today when she told me this i said if they were very sleepy when you got them you had time to go vet. I asked why naked was not seperated from boys she said cause i have nothing to put him in. I said my cariers or as soon as he was bullied i would have took him back ASAP.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I like that film:no1:
> I do wonder if these baby rats have been changed to another diet to fast and they couldnt cope so got diaorreah then got dehydrated which is life threatening if left untreated


 
the other ones on now on film4 lol

rats are pretty good with food changes they will eat pretty much anything



Lover said:


> There picking up bluey is eating solids! so pleased i think they were chilly aswell they were in a freezing porch for 30 mins.
> 
> Jens phone still switched off need Jonny's number to get hole of her she is at her mums till tuesday.
> 
> ...


 
You still need to call the RSPCA and report her ASAP like i said if you leave it too long then they cant prosecute trust me i know so call them NOW!!!!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> the other ones on now on film4 lol
> 
> rats are pretty good with food changes they will eat pretty much anything
> 
> ...


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

I will report it now then when will they do more like go to her house. She is never in!? i hope they do get some answers and get something done. I think im going to fall asleep...i need to stay awake for the rats.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

My mum has offered to stay up with them and ring which means bed for me im nakered im still getting over flu. D:

Night night i will be straight on tomorrow after ringing Jen.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Lover said:


> I will report it now then when will they do more like go to her house. She is never in!? i hope they do get some answers and get something done. I think im going to fall asleep...i need to stay awake for the rats.


 
means your complaint will be logged an officers will be sent out to access the problem ASAP but they have the proof you have logged the complaint by ringing them now


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I've read everything through this thread and you've been given good advice to help these, but if they have had diarrhoea then rehydration is actually more important than food, because food will increase the dehydration. It is paramount that you rehydrate them. 

I see that you say they are eating now and picking up, but you still need to keep checking them by pinching the skin. If the skin 'tents' (instead of sliding back into place the skin stays where you've pinched it) they are still dehydrated and need fluid not food. 

You can make your own rehydration fluid by mixing half a teaspoon of salt and half a tablespoon of sugar or glucose into half a litre of water and stir it until the salt and sugar/glucose have dissolved. Don't be tempted to just water down their food, give them the rehydration fluid on its own and then give them food about an hour later.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

feorag said:


> I've read everything through this thread and you've been given good advice to help these, but if they have had diarrhoea then rehydration is actually more important than food, because food will increase the dehydration. It is paramount that you rehydrate them.
> 
> I see that you say they are eating now and picking up, but you still need to keep checking them by pinching the skin. If the skin 'tents' (instead of sliding back into place the skin stays where you've pinched it) they are still dehydrated and need fluid not food.
> 
> You can make your own rehydration fluid by mixing half a teaspoon of salt and half a tablespoon of sugar or glucose into half a litre of water and stir it until the salt and sugar/glucose have dissolved. Don't be tempted to just water down their food, give them the rehydration fluid on its own and then give them food about an hour later.


 
Thankyou they all just had some glucose water and some normal water when i picked them up i attatched water bottle to carrier. Now i know its fluid they need its what they will get.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

If you can add a pinch of salt to the glucose water that will help too, because if they've had diarrhoea they will have lost salt too!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I was trying to stay out of this but those pictures have appalled me. While it is clear that the new owner has starved those babies, it is also clear that they a) were homed to a child without parental permission, b) need to see a vet tonight and c) were nowhere near the size or age appropriate for homing when they left. 

I know we all have different standards when it comes to breeding, and everyone's ethics (God I hate the overuse of that term as if on another board) should be determined by their own morals and standards, but I can't put into words how desperately depressing I find this. All I can say is that I hope you think twice about your breeding and homing procedures in future and get those babies to a vet tonight - their organs will be failing and it would be breaking your responsibility as a breeder, no as a loving owner, not to get them seen right now. 

Best of luck getting them back to health. Please forgive me if I can't look at your breeding threads from now on.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

last post im affraid i need sleep. They were a day young the blue was 6 weeks when she got her look at the state of her too. 
I know people are bantering about the age i gave them her but it was a day under and they were massive bigger than the blue who was 6 weeks.

Jess is 18 btw..


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

It doesn't make a difference, get them to a vet please  Do you not have a PDSA or somewhere you can take them? Most vets have a 24 hour backup even if not at their usual site. To leave them would be criminal.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> It doesn't make a difference, get them to a vet please  Do you not have a PDSA or somewhere you can take them? Most vets have a 24 hour backup even if not at their usual site. To leave them would be criminal.


 
we are not leaving them my mum is ringing both numbers we have for rspca cruelty reporting and one shell gave for help. Im just having to go bed nearly 12 im up early to get everything sorted myself im too ill to stay up any longer.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> It doesn't make a difference, get them to a vet please  Do you not have a PDSA or somewhere you can take them? Most vets have a 24 hour backup even if not at their usual site. To leave them would be criminal.


i do agree they should see a vet really


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Reporting cruelty is surely secondary to saving their lives? Get them to a bloomin' vet - this thread's been going for ages and as far as I can see you haven't done so yet. I'd be down knocking the vet's door down to get them seen instead of posting on a forum for sympathy and support. Gah, I truly hope you don't let them die, because it wouldn't just be your mate that needed reporting then. I'm off to bed I can't watch this any more.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

The line im ringing is to get me a vet out or a nearest one or what i can do for the rats thats the number shell given. I know they need vet treatment.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Excellent, phew. Best of luck with them then. Nothing else to say that I havent already said.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Excellent, phew. Best of luck with them then. Nothing else to say that I havent already said.


sounded like you had a heart attack in that post. If that line doesnt help my mum is ringing acorn vets to go down with them all to have a injection to boost them and most likely get some synulox or batryl i think there too underweight to have batryl. xxx


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I would imagine it would be better for them to be hospitalised so they can have sub-cut fluids. They really are tiny, my 2 week olds are nearly as big.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

FINGERS CROSSED FOR THEM.
I do hope they manage to get through. Hoping they have every chance.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

KathyM said:


> I was trying to stay out of this but those pictures have appalled me. While it is clear that the new owner has starved those babies, it is also clear that they a) were homed to a child without parental permission, b) need to see a vet tonight and c) were nowhere near the size or age appropriate for homing when they left.
> 
> I know we all have different standards when it comes to breeding, and everyone's ethics (God I hate the overuse of that term as if on another board) should be determined by their own morals and standards, but I can't put into words how desperately depressing I find this. All I can say is that I hope you think twice about your breeding and homing procedures in future and get those babies to a vet tonight - their organs will be failing and it would be breaking your responsibility as a breeder, no as a loving owner, not to get them seen right now.
> 
> Best of luck getting them back to health. Please forgive me if I can't look at your breeding threads from now on.





KathyM said:


> Reporting cruelty is surely secondary to saving their lives? Get them to a bloomin' vet - this thread's been going for ages and as far as I can see you haven't done so yet. I'd be down knocking the vet's door down to get them seen instead of posting on a forum for sympathy and support. Gah, I truly hope you don't let them die, because it wouldn't just be your mate that needed reporting then. I'm off to bed I can't watch this any more.


:notworthy: excellent posts!

Lover did you not check to see how she would be housing the rats before she took them? I would have done personally, she couldn't pay you for them so that should have wrung alarm bells.

Anyhow, have they seen a vet yet?


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Yeah i know what cages they have there not small there a good size.

I am offering her £4.50 how much she payed for them rats and mice so i can help them(if its not to late for them) She said they were sleepy aswell so i think they will either be dead or near there.

Unfortuntly blue died. We took them to the vet blue and naked had a vitimin and batryl injection (to get threw them quicker) but sadly it wasn't enough for Blue as for Naked he is alot better and looks more alive now.
I am so upset she has done this she took a life away!

I wont be typing on this for a while im to upset.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

sorry to hear about Blue, but I'm not surprised really. Who are you going to offer the £4.50 to?

Iv'e just read your post on the cat thread........how many did she have?


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

can I just ask why if you knew the person concerned and already had doubts about thier animal care did you let them have the rats in the first place, sorry if i'm wrong and the rats weren't yours but to me if you knew then as the seller its as much your responsiblity to find good homes for them as the person who's taking them on, sorry but its not only the new owner who's in the wrong if I'm right in saying you let them have them knowing there might be problems.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Lover said:


> Unfortuntly blue died. We took them to the vet blue and naked had a vitimin and batryl injection (to get threw them quicker) but sadly it wasn't enough for Blue as for Naked he is alot better and looks more alive now.
> I am so upset she has done this she took a life away!
> 
> I wont be typing on this for a while im to upset.


I'm almost in tears, RIP Blue  Glad Naked is alot better.
Fingers crossed for Naked x


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## izzyki (Jan 18, 2009)

can't believe she left them like that, really sorry to hear about blue but am glad to hear that the others are doing better : )

have you managed to get hold of johnny or jen yet?

mish x


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Lover said:


> Yeah i know what cages they have there not small there a good size.
> 
> I am offering her £4.50 how much she payed for them rats and mice so i can help them(if its not to late for them) She said they were sleepy aswell so i think they will either be dead or near there.
> 
> ...


What "vitamin injection" would that be? It will be listed on the receipt with it's proper name.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

I have a hold of Jen i'm not sure my mum has the reciept she payed by card cost a bomb she is in bed at the moment! I have got hold of Jen we are very upset trying to get these other rats and mice. She wont have any of it and said she has no money to take them vet i offered to take them and go to the vet she said no to that too. We have had no call from anyone reporting bak from rspca yet my mum given her mobile and house number. As for homing to Jess when she had rats they were good weight looked fine but then this happened i am traumatised by what she has done.
Blues body is now with the vet she died not long after my mum left but they will be doing a postmortum as soon as rspca give the go ahead.

edit- Has no name it says this Vit inj and the batrly is named btly
Its to boost the matabolism to get them to eat and drink.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm off again to see to these rats and get hold of some people.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

If the RSPCA decide to build a prosecution against her or anyone else involved I would imagine they wouldn't want it discussing on here, so maybe this thread should be locked. Let this be a warning to anyone thinking it's ok to home to children without parental consent and homing kittens before they're of a decent age and size. And a warning also to those looking for kittens - sometimes friendly on a forum doesn't equal responsible - always check the breeder out and never buy underage kittens.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Yes i think best locked now.

They are picking up alot more now look more themself. 
I will update if any die or if there getting better in a thread if one is needed.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Let this be a warning to anyone thinking it's ok to home to children without parental consent and homing kittens before they're of a decent age and size. And a warning also to those looking for kittens - sometimes friendly on a forum doesn't equal responsible - always check the breeder out and never buy underage kittens.


Does anyone on here seriusly think it is OK to home animals to children without parental consent???


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Probably not now, but from what has been said on this thread it seems these rats were given to someone without their dad's knowledge. Maybe if they weren't a secret they would have had better care. Maybe not, either way if it doesn't apply to Lover's homings then she's got nothing to be offended by.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Crikey, I'm with Kathy on this one. Those babies might have become underweight in their new home, but not feeding doesnt shrink their skeleton too. Those babies were far too small to be rehomed, no matter their age, whether they were 6 weeks or 10 they were too bloomin small and nowhere near ready for homing.

Sassy - you know I've stuck up for you in the past but this really makes it hard to comprehend. I'm very disappointed, and IMO it would be hypocritical to call the RSPCA on the new owner without reporting you too.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Isnt this Jess person 18 years old ? im sure ive seen a reply saying she was then shes legally classed as an adult and is responsible for her own actions. :S

If she is 18 and you are saying children should be allowed to keep pets then am i not aloud to keep my rats and mice since im 18 ?

Sorry no wanting to cause an arguement just a little confused.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Jen, Jess, whatever. The child vs adult argument is null anyway because the simple fact is that underaged and severely undersized kittens were sold to someone who was keeping them a secret in someone's house. Anyone with any sense would not home in such conditions. Especially when it has been said by Lover herself that she had concerns about the care of other animals there. You simply do not home out underaged or undersized kittens, and these were both. They were advertised elsewhere as not being ready til 29th. The first thing said about the mistake was that they needed their mothers' milk ffs, these babies were homed badly to a bad home that was known as a bad home. 

Whether someone's 18 or 12, if they live in someone else's home and known to the breeder are going to keep animals secret, then alarm bells should be ringing, not "Ok, here, have these tiny kittens that should really still be with their mum", and for the only concern to be whether or not she's going to pay out.

I don't see how anyone could read this thread and see what Lover did as right?! A catalogue of horrendous and maybe not intentional mistakes maybe, but right?!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> Isnt this Jess person 18 years old ? im sure ive seen a reply saying she was then shes legally classed as an adult and is responsible for her own actions. :S
> 
> If she is 18 and you are saying children should be allowed to keep pets then am i not aloud to keep my rats and mice since im 18 ?
> 
> Sorry no wanting to cause an arguement just a little confused.


Precisely my point this girl was 18 so technically not a child, although as a friend then I think the OP should have been aware whether she had parental consent or not, cos she still obviously lives in her father's house?

The problem here is 2 immature girls - that's the way I see it!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

feorag said:


> Precisely my point this girl was 18 so technically not a child, although as a friend then I think the OP should have been aware whether she had parental consent or not, cos she still obviously lives in her father's house?
> 
> The problem here is 2 immature girls doing stuff - that's the way I see it!





KathyM said:


> Jen, Jess, whatever. The child vs adult argument is null anyway because the simple fact is that underaged and severely undersized kittens were sold to someone who was keeping them a secret in someone's house. Anyone with any sense would not home in such conditions. Especially when it has been said by Lover herself that she had concerns about the care of other animals there. You simply do not home out underaged or undersized kittens, and these were both. They were advertised elsewhere as not being ready til 29th. The first thing said about the mistake was that they needed their mothers' milk ffs, these babies were homed badly to a bad home that was known as a bad home.
> 
> Whether someone's 18 or 12, if they live in someone else's home and known to the breeder are going to keep animals secret, then alarm bells should be ringing, not "Ok, here, have these tiny kittens that should really still be with their mum".
> 
> I don't see how anyone could read this thread and see what Lover did as right?! A catalogue of horrendous and maybe not intentional mistakes maybe, but right?!


 
Im not saying either side is right, maybe the rats could of done with a little more time with their mother/ in the care of Lover for longer or maybe Lover felt like there were ok to be rehomed how ever many days younger than they should have been.

Just seems a little bit unfair to judge people on there age then make sound as if anyone one that in that age range shouldnt be keeping pets :S

Sorry im just a little confused thinking i should read the thread again to refresh my mind and see if i have taking things in wrong :s


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

it's the poor rats i feel for it's them that are dying because they were to young to be sold and then sold to someone who's hasn't got the brains they were born with.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

feorag said:


> Precisely my point this girl was 18 so technically not a child, although as a friend then I think the OP should have been aware whether she had parental consent or not, cos she still obviously lives in her father's house?
> 
> *The problem here is 2 immature girls - that's the way I see it!*


Too right!



Mischievous_Mark said:


> Im not saying either side is right, maybe the rats could of done with a little more time with their mother/ in the care of Lover for longer or maybe Lover felt like there were ok to be rehomed how ever many days younger than they should have been.
> 
> *Just seems a little bit unfair to judge people on there age then make sound as if anyone one that in that age range shouldnt be keeping pets *:S
> 
> Sorry im just a little confused thinking i should read the thread again to refresh my mind and see if i have taking things in wrong :s


I don't think Kathy was saying that no-one under 18 should have pets, but that the fact that the immaturity of the girls involved demonstrates they particularly are far too young to own / breed / rehome pets. That's how I understand it and I agree completely!



linda.t said:


> it's the poor rats i feel for it's them that are dying because they were to young to be sold and then sold to someone who's hasn't got the brains they were born with.


And me, Linda!

And I'm really confused about the kittens? What's going on with them now?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I dont home to under 18s without their parents coming along too, but if this girl is 18 and living at home, I'd probably still want to hear from the parents too.

Having said that, and having seen the bickering on the other (cat, kitten whatever) threads, I do wonder why on earth - if Sassy thought Jen/Jess or whatever her name is was such a cruddy owner - she let them go to her?

I also read on another thread that one of them has been faking their own pregnancies for attention. I think it's a particularly childish game to play, getting rid of rats for new ones but claiming you were pregnant and miscarried - it's offensive to those of us who have genuinely been there.

You all need to grow up - you should be ashamed of yourselves.:bash:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i did not home them this small! They were massive my auntie had hers that day hers are just as big as mine i kept. They were neglected i do not neglect my animals do not say i do!! i would not leave my animals starved what is wrong is what she has done. They are all back at to the vet tomorrow rspca is paying for the treatment and to report it as cruelty or not as they will write them a report. and do the postmortum too.
I let them go a day before at night so technicly they were 5 weeks as they were bornn around that time.. So i do not understand why people are saying there to small all that is left on them is the skeleton without fat on them they look tiny!

Yeah jess is 18, Jen is a different person unkown of her age btu she is over 18!


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