# Big Eyed Leos



## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm just wondering if anyone if anyone has encountered this or tried to work out if it's a genetic thing or just line-bred.

One of my leos, my only normal, has really large beautiful eyes, I mean noticeably bigger than normal, and they seem to be closer to her nose than usual too. She has a very different look about her, and I'd love to see if she passes on her good looks next year.

Anyone have any experience of this, or got any ideas about whether it's likely to be just a random one-off or whether I can expect some beautiful babies?

Thanks


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## Salamanda (May 28, 2008)

Hmm I have leos that are sisters, one has huge eyes the other has tiny eyes


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

It is called "bug eyed". I have a normal female who has bug eyes. Leos with bug eyes really should not be bred from as it is hereditary and it is a deformity.


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

Interesting... Does it actually cause any issues for them? - It doesn't seem to be causing her any problems whatsoever, she can certainly see perfectly well. Or is it a bit like curly hair in humans, which is technically also a hereditory deformity and I'm sure no one would say that people with curly hair shouldn't be allowed to breed?

Just curious, and can't find anything definitive about it. Albinoism is technically a deformity and does cause some slight vision issues, but people still breed them and consider them desirable. 
Do you have a link to any information on the potential issues associated with it?

Thanks


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Google it, there should be a load of info out there.


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

I did. There isn't. There's just a few forum arguments with no real facts about it. I'll email Steve sykes I think.


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

I think you should advoid breeding her untill there is evidence to prove whether it affects the leos sight/health in any bad way.

But in the same breath it could also have no harmful effects on the leo so it's really up to you whether you want to breed her or not


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

So I emailed Steve Sykes at geckos etc, (he's been very helpful in the past and really knows his stuff). He said this:

"Those eyes do look larger than normal. I don't think there are any health problems with that. The guy who owns Fauna Classifieds, his wife used to breed leopards, and her geckos had really large eyes. I am not sure if she figured out if it was a heritable gene (recessive, etc.), but I do remember seeing a video of a large eyed gecko she had. 

Forums are interesting places....  Not everyone on there is an expert, and they can have strong opinions. Reptile genetics are interesting...it seems like if you change the color or pattern that is good and desirable, but people generally don't like things that mess with the morphology of animals. For example, if you were to discover a recessive gene that make leopard geckos tailless or 5 legged, that would definitely not be well received. Large eyes may be desirable to some, but others wouldn't be happy with it. But I don't see think there would be a problem with them having health issues as a result of it. My advice is to proceed on proving it out if you like it and find it desirable. I don't think it would be the next "enigma" or "Mack snow" in terms of desirability, but you never know!"

I don't see that having larger eyes would cause a problem. If there are no health issues associated with it, then it really isn't any different to albinoism (which in actual fact does have a few minor issues associated with it, such as light sensitivity and a tendency towards shedding problems).

The only info I managed to find on a google search was a few forum arguments in which a lot of people held a lot of opinions, ranging from "it's a sign of anorexia" to "she looks like a frog".

I might email a few other expert breeders and see if I get any differing opinions before going ahead with any breeding.


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

I didn't want to say it before but I think the leo look more cute, but I don't want to encourage you to breed her before you consult more experts


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## candyazz (Jan 14, 2008)

awww shes cute 

if she strong and health i don'y see a problem with it just maybe keep the first few back to see what they like 

good luck


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## Chromisca (Sep 28, 2010)

I had a leo like that who had huge eyes, almost named him Marty Feldman 

I never bred any of my geckos, but always thought it had to be some sort of genetic disorder or deformity, so guess I know now 

That being said, you would not want to breed your normal, in case it is passed on to the offspring.


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

candyazz said:


> awww shes cute
> 
> if she strong and health i don'y see a problem with it just maybe keep the first few back to see what they like
> 
> good luck


agreed if you are going to breed her keep the first babies and see how they turn out if they are fine with no health issues sell them and breed her again


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

Chromisca said:


> That being said, you would not want to breed your normal, in case it is passed on to the offspring.


Do you mean that you think normals shouldn't be bred from? Why not? To breeders and experts they're not very desirable, but new pet owners love them, and they're sometimes very pretty.

Or were you just talking about the eyes?


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## Chromisca (Sep 28, 2010)

Tadashii said:


> Do you mean that you think normals shouldn't be bred from? Why not? To breeders and experts they're not very desirable, but new pet owners love them, and they're sometimes very pretty.
> 
> Or were you just talking about the eyes?


Yeah, the OP was saying that his normal was the one with the abnormally large eyes, so if it is genetic (and it looks that way), I wouldn't breed. I have nothing against the normal/wild type Leos, I think they're very pretty and owned one myself! :flrt:


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

I think the big eyes are cute :flrt:


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

those eyes are beautiful,


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

Chromisca said:


> Yeah, the OP was saying that his normal was the one with the abnormally large eyes, so if it is genetic (and it looks that way), I wouldn't breed. I have nothing against the normal/wild type Leos, I think they're very pretty and owned one myself! :flrt:


Ah ok... the OP was me (incidentally, I'm a she : victory
Can I just ask again then, why would you not breed if it's a genetic thing? All morphs are genetic mutations. Is there something I'm missing? If these geckos are healthy, and if there is a market for them, at least amongst pet owners who think they look cute, why would you not want to breed them?


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