# Mixing darts



## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

*Mixing darts*

What are your views on this?





Thanks
Phil


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

No, No and NO.

Believe me if I thought it was at least TRYING, I would have a huge dart tank.

Not worth the risk at all if you ask me.

Gary


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

Having said what you have said you seem very against it, under all circumstances?

We keep 4 different species of darts in a tank 2'Hx2'Dx6'L so it is a very large enclosure for them. They all seem to stay out of each others way as we have provided alot of features that they would have in there natural habitat etc...



Phil


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

I still wouldnt. All it take id for a couple of them to cross paths and you will end up with dead darts.

I LOVE dart tanks and would LOVE a loooong one with various species, i just dont want to risk it.....

Any pics of your mixed tank?

Cheers

Gary


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

Yes indeed it is a risk, depending on the tank etc...

I will take a pic of it asap because they are not held at milton keynes (my location), they are held in out northants premises.

We house together Dendrobates tinctorius 'Nominat', Dendrobates tinctorius 'Oyapok' , Dendrobates leucomelas and Dendrobates azureus.


Phil


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Look forward to pics!


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

garysumpter said:


> All it take id for a couple of them to cross paths and you will end up with dead darts.


Gary, what is your basis for this statement? Darts are generally not mixed because of stress or inbreeding but you make it sound as if they kill each other on sight which is not true.

Phil, you are making the mistake of housing multiple tinc species together which will result in inbreeding and offspring that (if you have morals) will be unsellable. Dart keepers do not like the 'morph' phenomenon that has swept through other herps and it's an unpopular man that tries to sell hybrid darts!!

How long has the viv been set up out of interest. I would also be interested to see pics of the viv and some of the frogs if possible.


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Just a LOT of research I have done, no personal experience i'm afraid, not willing to risk it....


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

garysumpter said:


> Just a LOT of research I have done, no personal experience i'm afraid, not willing to risk it....


No, I have never mixed either as I have never seen the need. I do know people have done it successfully though, but not with species as closely related as Phil is trying it with.


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

Frogeye 1050 said:


> Gary, what is your basis for this statement? Darts are generally not mixed because of stress or inbreeding but you make it sound as if they kill each other on sight which is not true.
> 
> Phil, you are making the mistake of housing multiple tinc species together which will result in inbreeding and offspring that (if you have morals) will be unsellable. Dart keepers do not like the 'morph' phenomenon that has swept through other herps and it's an unpopular man that tries to sell hybrid darts!!
> 
> How long has the viv been set up out of interest. I would also be interested to see pics of the viv and some of the frogs if possible.


They are not used for breeding as all are female...
And like i said i will get pics asap.

All darts that we use for breeding are kept in there own exo terra's.



Phil


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

i have 2.4 D. auratus in with 2.3 E. tricolour. never really seen any issues. have a frind who keeps auratania, leucs, tricolours and green anoles in the same enclosure and its quite a bit smaller than mine.


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> i have 2.4 D. auratus in with 2.3 E. tricolour. never really seen any issues.


This will probably be because they are very different species, neither of which are known for aggression.


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

I think at the end of the day mixing dart frog is debatable under different circumstances.


Phil


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Philcw said:


> They are not used for breeding as all are female...


Thats even worse because the females of the particular species youve mentioned are highly aggressive towards each other, and i dont believe for one second that there is no fighting between them and further more the fact that you dont know this leads me to believe you have little knowledge of darts and probably shouldnt be keeping them, let alone mixing them.


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Return to your corners gentlemen....


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi John, was wondering when you'd spot this :lol2:


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Frogeye 1050 said:


> Hi John, was wondering when you'd spot this :lol2:


I spotted it ages ago mate but have been biting my toungue:lol2:, i wouldnt have minded so much if he said they were keeping a tank full of males but the fact that its stocked with females :bash: and hes trying to say theres no problems :crazy:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

lol, this threads getting fun. my real concern is however the inmates of this enclosure.


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

Im in the shawdows on this topic as well lol, 
like john said this is a very bad idea mixing females with them species. I would seprate them asap.


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> my real concern is however the inmates of this enclosure.


That's why I asked for pictures of the frogs, I would be surprised if they were all in peak condition given the circumstances :?


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

As they have been there for less than a week and are being sold very shortly the problem is not as great as you think.

Until you have seen the behaviour like i have then i suggest you stop to think, get all the facts and stop attacking me for the sake of argueing with just facts and figures.

Not all things are a sblack and white as that.



Thanks
Phil


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Philcw said:


> As they have been there for less than a week and are being sold very shortly the problem is not as great as you think.
> 
> Until you have seen the behaviour like i have then i suggest you stop to think, get all the facts and stop attacking me for the sake of argueing with just facts and figures.
> 
> ...


Given the number of dartfrog species that myself, John and KJ have kept and bred between us, I suspect that we are experienced enough to be giving the advice that we are. 

We are not arguing for the sake of it, we are pointing out that what you are doing is not in the best interests of the animals involved.


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Philcw said:


> As they have been there for less than a week and are being sold very shortly the problem is not as great as you think.
> 
> Until you have seen the behaviour like i have then i suggest you stop to think, get all the facts and stop attacking me for the sake of argueing with just facts and figures.
> 
> ...


I have read many of your posts, so its not just on this one that ive come to the decision that you are a total plonker :lol2:


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

I wouldn't mess with these guys mate, they're like the Dart Maffia!


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

garysumpter said:


> I wouldn't mess with these guys mate, they're like the Dart Maffia!


We aren't that bad are we Gary:lol2:


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Frogeye 1050 said:


> We aren't that bad are we Gary:lol2:



Feared but respected :lol2:


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

I think we just want whats best for the animals, and the bottom line is mixing isnt good for dartfrogs, there is no benefit for the animals at all, now if people want to go ahead and mix then there is nothing anyone can do about it, i just feel sorry for the animals that will live an unhappy and stressed life and a very short one at that.


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## baden187 (Apr 11, 2007)

well i am in the process of setting up my first dart vivaria and am constatly researching and no matter wot sites or advise I read one of the first was not to mix cant see how 95% of ppl can be wrong : victory:

To the Dart mafia I'm sure your all sweethearts really lmao I be bending ur ears for advise really soon :whistling2:

Baden


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

baden187 said:


> To the Dart mafia I'm sure your all sweethearts really lmao I be bending ur ears for advise really soon :whistling2:
> 
> Baden


Feel free Baden, we are all willing to give as much help as we can: victory:


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## baden187 (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks Frogeye I wont hijack this thread I'll PM u m8: victory:


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

I wouldnt know what I do without the help of the Mafia to be honest!

Even with all the research I have done over the years I still wouldnt want to mix any darts, its just a no-no you get used to when you start.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I'd like to point out i wasn't advocating mixing species. i took the advice of a friend with 40 years amphib experience.... and i see no beef in my lil jungle. but as the mafioso said.... my species are unlikely to battle.


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

baden187 said:


> Thanks Frogeye I wont hijack this thread I'll PM u m8: victory:


Why not make a new thread and we will help you out


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> I have read many of your posts, so its not just on this one that ive come to the decision that you are a total plonker :lol2:


Dont get personal, its pathetic.

Also please show other post to suggest im a 'plonker' lol



Phil


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

By the way, thanks for your thoughts and concerns on this matter.
I appreciate all your views and comments as you are giving advice which is more than i can say for *ghastly152 *but hey ho.



Phil


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Philcw said:


> please show other post to suggest im a 'plonker' lol


Take your pick, youve got 1,113 of them :mf_dribble:


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## Mr.Monty (Jun 6, 2007)

why are you all getting so aggresive with each other,
how often would these frogs cross paths in the wild, if you know the frogs are fighting then yeah i would seperate them, even then i would try to make sure that i did not have too many different frogs in one tank,

it would be worse to keep you's together than the different dartfrog spicies, more fighting than the frogs would do

lastly, some people have their ways, others have their own - even if their views are not the some as your's, you can say what you do, but you can't make someone do what you think is wright just coz' you don't like it, the only thing your able to do is advise, or even take into account what this other person is saying and possible try it unless you have already tryed this

Ian


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

Mr.Monty said:


> why are you all getting so aggresive with each other,
> how often would these frogs cross paths in the wild, if you know the frogs are fighting then yeah i would seperate them, even then i would try to make sure that i did not have too many different frogs in one tank,
> 
> it would be worse to keep you's together than the different dartfrog spicies, more fighting than the frogs would do
> ...


 
Well said Ian,


Very reasonable response, thankyou 



Phil : victory:


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Philcw said:


> Well said Ian,
> 
> 
> Very reasonable response, thankyou
> ...


Just another person who dosent know what hes talking about, has no experience on the subject in question but yet still feels the need to get involved :blah:

Just like you Phil.


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> Just another person who dosent know what hes talking about, has no experience on the subject in question but yet still feels the need to get involved :blah:
> 
> Just like you Phil.


lol people like you make my day, you dont know how much experience i have had, your opinion is not the be all and end all, you cant come across with a valid point like the others so you just bitch like a 10 year old, you are the only person still argueing, the only person that got personal, are judging by facts and figures.
And please if you realy feel like argueing further which is more than likely please show me some proof that the specific frogs i am keeping in my specific tank under the specific scenario for the specific amount of time is wrong...or let me guess it will be a copy and paste job from...:google:.

Well done champ!




Phil


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Philcw said:


> lol people like you make my day


you must have a pretty sad life then if this is the highlight of your day!



Philcw said:


> you dont know how much experience i have had


None, thats plain to see.



Philcw said:


> your opinion is not the be all and end all


Yes your right, but luckily over the years i have had the pleasure of speaking to some of the most well informed and highly experienced dartfrog keepers in the country as well as some from other countries who will all agree that mixing is not in the best interests of the animals.

To be honest i dont give a monkeys what you do with you frogs, as weve already established your abit of a tool and unfortunately your animals will suffer for the fact. Was does piss me off is that your coming on here and sending out the message that mixing is ok when by your own admission the frogs have only been together a week, and we all know thats a long enough time to draw any conclusions from, dont we?

Just answer me one question, why did you fill the tank with females? what was the reasoning behind that?


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> you must have a pretty sad life then if this is the highlight of your day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok well you broke down what i said and didnt give one good answer, just your opinion but hey ho...

Incase you didnt notice i asked for peoples opinions on mixing darts, i did not say it was right or wrong i think you will find you were the one throwing that one around.

And the answer to your question is, we were givin them like that from a rescue and they are being rehomed on sunday!



Phil


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

Mr.Monty said:


> why are you all getting so aggresive with each other,
> how often would these frogs cross paths in the wild, if you know the frogs are fighting then yeah i would seperate them, even then i would try to make sure that i did not have too many different frogs in one tank,
> 
> it would be worse to keep you's together than the different dartfrog spicies, more fighting than the frogs would do
> ...


Unfortunately this is definately a case of knowing your stuff before posting, I don't know a great deal about darts, but I do know that Dendrobates azureus and _Dendrobates leucomelas_ have different geographic ranges, very small quite specific ones.

so the answer to your bit about them crossing paths in the wild would probably be...never.

It's also worth noting that this isn't just about opinion, it's about opinion formed over years backed up by research and observation. It's not about you are right and I am wrong, it is about "it has been SHOWN that.."


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Closed on request


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