# First dart frog tank, aquarium conversion



## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Hey guys, this is my first build from scratch. I'm converting a 27 Gallon aquarium for 3 Leucomelas to live in.

So first pic is the basic tank with all the bits, roughly in place, gotta plan before i went mad with the expanding foam LOL. 










On the top is a wooden frame, smothered in aquarium silicone just to make sure it can withstand the moisture. The rest of the frame and mesh is drying, will post pic later on. So inside i have two pieces of Mopani, either side and a liana branch. Natural slate in the middle, to make a cave type thing. I'm using the leca ball bottom method so close right is various stones/slate to make a boundary to a super shallow pool for syphoning excess water. I also siliconed the background and sides before i decided to cover them up :bash:

Next step......foam!!!










Ok, so i got it all ready gloves on, sheet down......but I was too scared to pull the trigger. For some reason i had visions of exploding cans and glass shattering in my face....I'm blaming something on Hollyoaks earlier that week!!! So my lovely husband came to the rescue and did the first squirt :lol2: So then i took over. All the bits are back in place, but not fixed as they are all coming back out so i can silicone and eco earth the foam. Now awaiting some coco panels from the posty, to do the two sides before i go any further


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

sammyp said:


> So my lovely husband came to the rescue and did the first squirt


 
:gasp:


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## mmattys30 (Jan 7, 2012)

*hi*

nice tank


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Cornish-J said:


> :gasp:


only you could go there mate:2thumb:
Sammy,have a looksee at my room thread kiddo,there are a few pointers there,expanding foam can be manipulated,if you get the timing right,saves on the carving,i can see why you were warey of using the stuff,I'm the one guy here whom messed with his eyes using the cleaner for foam thank god not the actual foam.
Good luck with the build,and enjoy your leucs,wonderful darts,i best stop sitting before i set,the hunt for wild baby frog grub is just about to commence:whistling2:
regards
Stu


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Great work so far, I'd love a go at an aquarium conversion myself.


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Thanks  And Stu, i've actually read your thread, about 4 times through, lots of great stuff in it  Coco earth drying now, ready for the dauntingly messy task of siliconing it to the foam somewhen in the next couple evenings.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Don`t follow Stu`s thread too closely Sammy or your gonna end up having to build a frog room to cope :lol2:.

Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

sammyp said:


> Thanks  And Stu, i've actually read your thread, about 4 times through, lots of great stuff in it  Coco earth drying now, ready for the dauntingly messy task of siliconing it to the foam somewhen in the next couple evenings.


Ahh man I've come over all warm and fuzzy,kiddo 4 times is too much for any sane being,i hope your ok:2thumb:
Ok serious head on,Sammy wear, the gloves of the disposable kind,beyond that i can't help,other than check out Ade's brand of brown silicone as i use a different method,which you're aware of
However much effort you put in to this I'll lay a bet ,your leucs will pay you back X10,take your time mate think hard work slow
best
Stu


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

2 trays of eco earth oven baked and smelling lovely :S the rest laying on a bin bag......dry mud DRY!!!!! any quick drying tips?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

sammyp said:


> 2 trays of eco earth oven baked and smelling lovely :S the rest laying on a bin bag......dry mud DRY!!!!! any quick drying tips?


Air movement accelerates drying time.

Ade


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## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

On my last viv I used Gold Label brown aquarium pond silicon... A bit more expensive than other stuff but I'm so glad because there were tiny bits where the eco earth didn't stick properly but I didn't have to redo them because the brown silicon was a great natural colour which matched the eco earth perfectly anyway.

Plus its so good that you can use it underwater to seal / stick things, even with animals already in :2thumb:

A previous build I used clear stuff and a year on alot of the earth has come off and it looks horrible.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I have done this and aquariums do work well.The only problem that I had was that the aquarium would mist up because of lack of air flow.It was difficult to see the frogs.At a later date you may want to introduce a small fan but I would see how the vivarium works before doing that.


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Fogged up glass, good humidity!  i was planning on getting one of the magnetic aquarium glass cleaners and keeping that on the front so i can clear the front every now and then. Will see how that works at first then look into fans if its no good.


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Ok here is my lid that goes under the aquarium hood. Its a wooden frame, covered in aquarium silicone with a lift out section at the front that can be removed through the opening of the hood and allows plenty of room for a hand/arm to get inside. It also means i can open the front for ventilation periodically without flies getting out or frogs for that matter!




























The mesh is a fine fabric mesh from ebay, sold for the use of stick insect tanks and to keep FF in pots.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

sammyp said:


> Fogged up glass, good humidity!  i was planning on getting one of the magnetic aquarium glass cleaners and keeping that on the front so i can clear the front every now and then. Will see how that works at first then look into fans if its no good.


You need the humidity but its also good to have some airflow.As you saycheck and see how it goes.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

sammyp said:


> Ok here is my lid that goes under the aquarium hood. Its a wooden frame, covered in aquarium silicone with a lift out section at the front that can be removed through the opening of the hood and allows plenty of room for a hand/arm to get inside. It also means i can open the front for ventilation periodically without flies getting out or frogs for that matter!
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 That looks really smart! :2thumb:


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## Tonybb (Jun 24, 2012)

looking very good there so far


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Sammy
You tank is beginning to take shape now and you`ve done a pretty decent job of it :no1:.
I have only one concern which keeps nagging at me and that is the wooden frame you`ve used.
The silicone might do the job of sealing it, but moisture has a bad habit of finding it`s way in where it`s not supposed to.
For the future, if the moisture does get at the wood try getting some perspex and attatch your filter mesh to that.
The steamed up glass is unfortunately something you`ll have to live with as if you start using fans to circulate the air then you`ll have an instant drop in humidity and the air will get too dry for the frogs.
Using an aquarium magnet should do the job nicely and it`s not like you`ll have to clean the glass every 5 minutes.

Mike


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

i wasn't keen on using a fan and am quite happy to get the aquarium magnet. Yes i want to see the frogs, but id prefer they were happy and healthy in a fogged up tank than ill frogs in a crystal clear tank.

the frame took about 45 mins to make, well lets say 30 mins to convince hubby to let me use his tools :2thumb:and then 45 mins to make the frame, I took ages siliconing it, :/ but i am gambling, i read that using perspex can sometimes warp with the moisture....not sure though. figured that if the water does get to the frame its going to do it slowly so i will keep an eye on it and make something new to replace it should it go soggy .

On the plus side!! My eco earth has dried after cooking tray after tray of it in the oven lol. I will put some pics up in a bit, though they aren't fantastic as they are on my phone


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Before










After









Top view









The pots will be siliconed and eco earthed next and the sides will have coco panels on them cut to mould against the "rocks" at the back.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Sammy
I`ve not heard of perspex being affected by moisture, heat from lights maybe.
What to do if it concerns you is to just get a thicker peice of 8 or 10mm, there are plenty of suppliers online where you can buy offcuts which can be cut to the size you want for a reasonable cost.


Mike


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## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Hi Sammy
> I`ve not heard of perspex being affected by moisture, heat from lights maybe.
> What to do if it concerns you is to just get a thicker peice of 8 or 10mm, there are plenty of suppliers online where you can buy offcuts which can be cut to the size you want for a reasonable cost.
> 
> ...


 
i used perspex for my viv doors, and the warped, not sure if it was to do with the heat or the high humidity

dar


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Darren
That is a strange one.
Heat from lights might do it because it`s just a plastic, but I can`t think why it would happen to a door.

Mike


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*mags*



sammyp said:


> Fogged up glass, good humidity!  i was planning on getting one of the magnetic aquarium glass cleaners and keeping that on the front so i can clear the front every now and then. Will see how that works at first then look into fans if its no good.


 all my vivs have the magnetic fishtank clners they grt


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Shopping came 









So Hydro drain.
hydro fleece
Orchid bark
Sedge peat
Tree fern fibre.
Sphagnum moss

Substrate layer following ABG mix, however i am not using charcoal as i have heard mixed reviews for it. Instead i have lots of bits of small driftwood sticks that will go into the mix.

also have coco panels for the two sides, and some coconut huts. I have collected lots of bits an pieces over the past two weeks. Everything i have now, will take me right up to a ready tank, except for lighting (which is next on the list) then plants, livefood establishing and then darts. Getting there


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## Robert Manrique (Jan 21, 2012)

I just use my misting sprayer to get rid of the fog, turn it to the high jet stream and hose down all the glass, it works for me and usually keeps clear the rest of the afternoon


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Regarding the ABG, I don't add carbon either. I do however add a tiny amount of powdered calcium bentonite (as sold in beauty shops).

Another bit of advice, you'll seriously regret using the coco panel. They look terrible in dart frog vivs and one day you will end up wanting to rip it out. I used it in a couple of vivs, including my d. tinctorius Regina viv and really regretted it. Natural cork costs more but looks nicer and lasts longer.

Ade


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## samsnake (Mar 10, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Regarding the ABG, I don't add carbon either. I do however add a tiny amount of powdered calcium bentonite (as sold in beauty shops).
> 
> Another bit of advice, you'll seriously regret using the coco panel. They look terrible in dart frog vivs and one day you will end up wanting to rip it out. I used it in a couple of vivs, including my d. tinctorius Regina viv and really regretted it. Natural cork costs more but looks nicer and lasts longer.
> 
> Ade


Oh no why??? I was going to use it but with the little plant pots built in  Is it ok in Tree Frog set ups?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Personal taste mainly, I find it really ugly. I've also known the siliconed on parts to rot away causing it to fall off.

Regarding tree frogs, I find mine prefer bare glass or cork to most other surfaces so usually I silicone on a couple of peaces of natural cork and just put some black Fablon on the outside of the viv to give them some security.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

frogman955 said:


> Hi Sammy
> I`ve not heard of perspex being affected by moisture, heat from lights maybe.
> What to do if it concerns you is to just get a thicker peice of 8 or 10mm, there are plenty of suppliers online where you can buy offcuts which can be cut to the size you want for a reasonable cost.
> 
> ...


I've experienced the effects of heat and moisture on acrylic personally Mike. Heat from lights on it's own doesn't do that much, but combine it with humidity/moisture and it seriously warps and bows.

Ade


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Oh well you learn something new all the time.

Mike


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Just my personal experience Mike, and this was with acrylic used horizontally as a lid, not with it vertical. Pretty sure I read something once about how you can prime/prepare it though so that it doesn't warp.

Personally though I just use either twin wall polycarbonate or lexan (single wall polycarbonate) as this doesn't warp at all.

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Personal taste mainly, I find it really ugly. I've also known the siliconed on parts to rot away causing it to fall off.
> 
> *Regarding tree frogs, I find mine prefer bare glass or cork to most other surfaces so usually I silicone on a couple of peaces of natural cork and just put some black Fablon on the outside of the viv to give them some security.
> *
> Ade


I've just used your name in vain on *exactly* the same subject, in another thread! 

I _did_ refer to you as 'WolfengrumpytillhegetshisfirstcoffeeRook' (or something similar!) though... :lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Personal taste mainly, I find it really ugly. I've also known the siliconed on parts to rot away causing it to fall off.
> 
> Regarding tree frogs, I find mine prefer bare glass or cork to most other surfaces so usually I silicone on a couple of peaces of natural cork and just put some black Fablon on the outside of the viv to give them some security.
> 
> Ade


Ade i have the same thoughts about co co fibre panels,i have some here,I've never used them,i think they look hideous.I was talking to a guy recently he's been at this for.... hell eons,he actually uses these,i asked for an explanation,taking it for granted that there was something i'd missed.i thought a few yrs they rot,they look horrible, why would this guy use them...how does he use them.
He calls it the living wall,the co co fibre panels are just a carrier for climbers ie ficus,the ficus cover and root through the coco,on to the glass.Yup the heinous panels do rot ,but whats left are the ficus bonded to the glass...a living wall.So not really a disagreement,just a seriously longterm prespective on the use of these panels,that you or i couldn't possibly know of yet.I thought you'ld find this real interesting. My personal preference is not to use them as with yourself,ghastly things they are :lol2:,his thoughts have made me think more than a bit though,I'm not often able to speak to many folks that can chuck 30 years of dart keeping at me. Seeing how quick my methods are being revised in just months as i learn and adapt,I'm more than alittle curious as to why some of these old timers do what they do,as they have been revising their theories for half a life time.what he's said to me makes total sense
LMAO i still don't think a coco fibre panel will feature in my next viv though,maybe a few years on I'll see the light:bash:
who knows
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Ade i have the same thoughts about co co fibre panels,i have some here,I've never used them,i think they look hideous.I was talking to a guy recently he's been at this for.... hell eons,he actually uses these,i asked for an explanation,taking it for granted that there was something i'd missed.i thought a few yrs they rot,they look horrible, why would this guy use them...how does he use them.
> *He calls it the living wall,the co co fibre panels are just a carrier for climbers ie ficus,the ficus cover and root through the coco,on to the glass.Yup the heinous panels do rot ,but whats left are the ficus bonded to the glass...a living wall*.So not really a disagreement,just a seriously longterm prespective on the use of these panels,that you or i couldn't possibly know of yet.I thought you'ld find this real interesting. My personal preference is not to use them as with yourself,ghastly things they are :lol2:,his thoughts have made me think more than a bit though,I'm not often able to speak to many folks that can chuck 30 years of dart keeping at me. Seeing how quick my methods are being revised in just months as i learn and adapt,I'm more than alittle curious as to why some of these old timers do what they do,as they have been revising their theories for half a life time.what he's said to me makes total sense
> LMAO i still don't think a coco fibre panel will feature in my next viv though,maybe a few years on I'll see the light:bash:
> who knows
> Stu


That would get my 'infavour' vote- I mean, who wants to look at the actual background, anyway? I absolutely can't remember which thread or even which section it was, but someone made a background by siliconing coco matting over a standard Exo background- and within a couple of months of plant growth, it looked awesome.

Plus, Poundland, 99p stores and many others supply cocofibre in the form of hanging basket liners, easy to cut to shape, very cheaply...


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## samsnake (Mar 10, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> That would get my 'infavour' vote- I mean, who wants to look at the actual background, anyway? I absolutely can't remember which thread or even which section it was, but someone made a background by siliconing coco matting over a standard Exo background- and within a couple of months of plant growth, it looked awesome.
> 
> Plus, Poundland, 99p stores and many others supply cocofibre in the form of hanging basket liners, easy to cut to shape, very cheaply...


Are these ok to use Ron? I saw some last week when out shopping but didnt get them as I was worried about what was holding them together.

I am gutted now as I had seen some great coco backgrounds that had little pots already built in to make the planting even easier  
These are them, they are called Nambia Terra Jungle Planting Mats.

Landscaping & Decor Price List

What do you think?
Also what is the advantage of using the cork panels?
Sorry for the questions its just that I am a newbie :lol2:
*Namiba Terra Jungle Planting Mats 
*
The Namiba® Terra Jungle Planting Mat mat is a 100% natural product made from coir fibre. The rear/side wall mat offers an ideal climbing platform, and also enables bromeliads, ferns and tillandsias to be planted in the coco pockets. The natural fibres are held together by an flexible and pollutant free natural rubber.

These can be adhered to the back/side panels with silicone. 
They are available in four sizes each with 3 coco pockets except the largest size which has 4. 
http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/equipment...elnr=sdm013&template=moreinfo_landscaping.xsl

*Namiba Terra Jungle Planting Mats 
*
The Namiba® Terra Jungle Planting Mat mat is a 100% natural product made from coir fibre. The rear/side wall mat offers an ideal climbing platform, and also enables bromeliads, ferns and tillandsias to be planted in the coco pockets. The natural fibres are held together by an flexible and pollutant free natural rubber.

These can be adhered to the back/side panels with silicone. 
They are available in four sizes each with 3 coco pockets except the largest size which has 4. 
http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/equipment...elnr=sdm013&template=moreinfo_landscaping.xsl


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

samsnake said:


> Are these ok to use Ron? I saw some last week when out shopping but didnt get them as I was worried about what was holding them together.
> 
> I am gutted now as I had seen some great coco backgrounds that had little pots already built in to make the planting even easier
> These are them, they are called Nambia Terra Jungle Planting Mats.
> ...


I've heard folks complain about those panels with the planters in because apparantly they're not really deep enough to plant in and they're just a pain in the arse to work with. Proper cork bark looks a bit nicer and you could always construct your own planters and silicone them on.


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## samsnake (Mar 10, 2009)

ronnyjodes said:


> I've heard folks complain about those panels with the planters in because apparantly they're not really deep enough to plant in and they're just a pain in the arse to work with. Proper cork bark looks a bit nicer and you could always construct your own planters and silicone them on.


I would not have a clue how to do that lol. I always try and find the easy way to do things...some people would say that I am lazy :blush:


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

Bugger......i had a very busy night last night doign my tank and had not read any of this about coco panels....My plan was to use them kind of like trellis and get climbers on moss on them, hoping that the coco panels would eventually kind of be overtaken and allow the plants to be the wall.

I'm soo annoyed at myself now,  

The rest of the tank is looking great though, i am a bit biased but ill put a pic up in a sec. I'm thinking that if/when the panels start to fade ill pop frogs into a new tank (yes i dont even have the darts yet and hubbys agreed to two more tanks yay!) and redo the walls. Afterall who know, maybe my cocopanel plant wall will work, dont know till you try yourself i guess.

Thanks for all the advice guys, i love this forum

(my glass is too clean and the reflection is awful will take some pics this evening when its dark)


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## racingbrett (Oct 25, 2010)

just to add to the perspex and warping thing, it tends to happen when one side is subject to humidity and the other isnt, to give an example perspex aquarium drip covers warp, perspex aquarium divides/sump divides do not warp


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Ive used the coco fibre panels for years without problems. They are easy to deal with and plant into. They dont look attractive but with the right plantting you dont see it anyway. As has been said climbers will scramble over. You can also make your own planting pockets in it with a knife rather than go for the more expensive ones with planters.
A landscaped background does look better if not covered with plants but after a few months of growth what difference is there?
plus there is the added advantage you lose less depth in the viv. You can accent the back by siliconing wood. Stone or vines to the back and then coco fibre around them


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I actually find that coco fiber panels are a fair bit thicker than many of the other methods I've tried Mike, rather than thinner. I've also found that plants just don't take as well on them as they do on eco earth or tree fern surfaces.

Perfect example is my Regina viv. This is my oldest dart frog viv, been just over 2 years old now roughly. It started it's life looking like this:-










Two years on and it looked like this:-










(different lighting on there now is all)

Growth on the coco panels has been rubbish, and I found them really really difficult to keep moist.

Compare this to a much younger viv in which I used Gorilla Glue and eco earth instead (giving a thickness of under 2cm, thinner than coco matting), which started life looking like this:-










and a much shorter time later looked like this:-










You can I am sure appreciate why I dislike coco panels now. Gorilla glue is actually much cheaper a method, and very easy to do, it also gives much better results and looks better from the off. Heck I can even get a better result using a structured aquarium background. One of my most recent vivs started out like this in September 2011:-










February of this year (2012) it looked like this:-










There are methods cheaper and as easy as coco panels that look better and give better results, and there are methods a bit more expensive but equally as easy to do that give better results. So I just seriously can't be bothered putting up with the ugly coco panels. Heck, my leuc viv is almost as old as my Regina viv, and one of the coco panels in there is hanging off as as I described the back rotted where I had siliconed it to the glass.

If you like the look of coco panels, then it's really not my place to argue that. But if you don't like them, then all I am saying is don't use them just because you don't think you can manage one of the other methods, because you can. 

Ade


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

I personally have never had problems with climbers attaching to coco panels. The panels i use are 1cm thick. Normally one side is smoother than the other and that side is siliconed to the glass. Ive used various ficus., begonia schulzei, philodendron sp, cissus amazonica and discolor all of which have attached and spread with no problems.
If itt didnt work i wouldnt have persisted with it all these years


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Not saying you haven't Mike, and it pretty clear you have used a different coco panel to the ones I have tried (Lucky Reptile and Namibia Terra) which are big thick things with both sides identical. Are you by any chance using hanging basket liners? If so, maybe they are made differently? All I am saying is, unless you actually like the look of them there are other methods that look better from the off that are just as easy.

Have you perchance got any more recent pics of your vivs Mike? I can only find ones on here from 2010. I have honestly yet to see a photograph of a viv using coco panels that looked as nice as ones using other methods, so if you have some it would be nice to see a decent comparison.

Ade


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Ill dig out which coco panel it was. Wasnt hanging basket liner tho.
Not updated my albums in a while so ill get some new viv shots


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## samsnake (Mar 10, 2009)

Is Tree Fern a good backer then? Ive seen it for sale but thought it was the same as the coco panel.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

It's very good yes, and behaves a little differently to coco panel. Some folks wont use it for ecological reasons, however given that the tree fern supplied these days is the soft this shouldn't be a huge issue.

Definitely not the same as coco panels though. Tree fern panels will often spontaneously sprout moss and ferns, and mosses do a lot better on it.

I can show you a before and after for tree fern too. lol

Before:-










After:-










You can also use tree fern fiber pushed into Gorilla Glue, which is a bit cheaper.

Ade


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

I have a long shopping list of cuttings for the coco panels. My background is expanding foam and eco earth, then the sides are coco panels, but cut around the foam as it is on the sides a bit too like rocks. I have researched and chosen a lot of epiphyte's so they dont like wet roots, so keeping the panels wet isnt so much of an issue, also a lot of viny ones which cling to rock and wood, so will be fine on the coco panels i think. I'm looking at about 5-6 cuttings on each side mainly creeping plants and trailing ones. then the broms and other plants for the main background and the floor. Seems like one of those things that has split opinions. 

I'm going to get it planted up before taking pics because i think that will show it at its best. 

So next up for advice. Water. so many different opinions so instead id just like to ask what everyone uses. Im going to be hand misting. So is it RO water? tap water with a drop like aquatize to get rid of calcium? bottled spring water or aired tap water? Or even DI. All the possibilities. What does everyone use?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Tap water with aquarium conditioner is all you need.

Mike


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Definitely go for begonia schulzei sammy - will attach itself and climb as well as trail and will give you lovely small pink flowers. Just make sure its rootball isnt in wet areas as it will rot.
Ficus pumila is another good climber but can get a bit brutish so will need pruning. Ficus quercifolia is less rampant and has oak shaped leaves as their name suggests. There are a couple of larger leaf ficus that i believe are slower growing and look great but ive never tried them myself. Others to try are cissus discolor anid amazonica. The amazonica is smaller leaved and less brutish but i like both.
Philodendron scandens is great too and have nice broad leaves ive had a few species use these as egg laying sites.
The list goes on and on but all the above are easy to grow and propagate


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Lmao nah rainwater is all you need.
this will be good Sammy you'll get a real cross section here.
Man if you can't get decent rainwater in Devon,then I'll have to eat another damn big slice of strawberry cheese cake,now there's a thought:mf_dribble:.
Seriously: rainwater is free eco friendly easily collected,we have a system hooked up with a filter,we let it rain awhile to flush the roof and pipes,then harvest,tad after tad is reared in it,froglets and adults are thriving ,it just works.

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Lmao nah rainwater is all you need.
> this will be good Sammy you'll get a real cross section here.
> Man if you can't get decent rainwater in Devon,then I'll have to eat another damn big slice of strawberry cheese cake,now there's a thought:mf_dribble:.
> Seriously: rainwater is free eco friendly easily collected,we have a system hooked up with a filter,we let it rain awhile to flush the roof and pipes,then harvest,tad after tad is reared in it,froglets and adults are thriving ,it just works.
> ...


 I have to qualify that, Stu- it depends where, even in Devon- if Sammy is in or close to a town, the rainwater could be dodgy. Ok, I live in the industrial Southeast,and in a town, but I deffo wouldn't trust the rainwater here!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Okay things aint as bad as they used to be, but, acid rain comes to mind.
Lets just keep things simple for Sammy to let her get started.
Tap water with aquarium conditioner is all you need.
Wait a minute, i`ve already said that :bash:.

Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Okay things aint as bad as they used to be, but, acid rain comes to mind.
> Lets just keep things simple for Sammy to let her get started.
> Tap water with aquarium conditioner is all you need.
> Wait a minute, i`ve already said that :bash:.
> ...


Soz, mate- can you repeat that? :lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Ihave to qualify that, Stu- it depends where, even in Devon- if Sammy is in or close to a town, the rainwater could be dodgy. Ok, I live in the industrial Southeast,and in a town, but I deffo wouldn't trust the rainwater here!


yeah it can be polluted,mind AJC's been using it in the middle of Leicester for years Ron.

possibly the most important part is not harvesting the first part of the down fall,i guess that is where most contamination is,the downfall of rain will be cleaning any contaminants in the air too. 
After living in Cornwall for years,on a spring water supply Ron,and then moving up here and drinking tad water and seeing how it affected us ,i don't have much trust in water companies,throw in Camelford for good measure.All the folks that i know that use rainwater do very well with it and there are some pretty bright sparks amongst them,they rear some of the most difficult darts too.
This is bang in line for me with wild grub Ron,we both know there are risks we can both list them cooci ranavirus chytrid selmonella,etc.But our frogs are all all the better for their varied diet,but, all this grub will get rained on,i appreciate your point,its totally right to warn Sammy,she should take all our differing ideas and ponder,then choose which to use. i can totally see your reservations,hell this water debate sent me nuts as i researched it a while back,before i settled on a path for us. I have so many reservations about the chemicals we put into water to make it good for us,and then we chuck in another load of chemicals to take all the crap out for our phibs,im as warey of that process as the contaminants in the air that have come here from the states,trouble is its pretty much unavoidable....man's pollution,tis everywhere my friend
Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> yeah it can be polluted,mind AJC's been using it in the middle of Leicester for years Ron.
> 
> possibly the most important part is not harvesting the first part of the down fall,i guess that is where most contamination is,the downfall of rain will be cleaning any contaminants in the air too.
> After living in Cornwall for years,on a spring water supply Ron,and then moving up here and drinking tad water and seeing how it affected us ,i don't have much trust in water companies,throw in Camelford for good measure.All the folks that i know that use rainwater do very well with it and there are some pretty bright sparks amongst them,they rear some of the most difficult darts too.
> ...


All true, mate- and, as you know, I have a preference for wild-caught food for my frogs, with all the risks. I guess we all just do the best we can, and if our animals do well on it, we can't be doing it *all* wrong! :lol2:


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## sammyp (Jun 8, 2012)

I suppose i should mention that hubby is a window cleaner. So he collects rainwater and has a DI vessel thats gets the TDI down to 0 so pretty pure water. But im happy to use the water treatment drops, maybe a bit of both?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

sammyp said:


> I suppose i should mention that hubby is a window cleaner. So he collects rainwater and has a DI vessel thats gets the TDI down to 0 so pretty pure water. But im happy to use the water treatment drops, maybe a bit of both?


That sounds good.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> All true, mate- and, as you know, I have a preference for wild-caught food for my frogs, with all the risks. I guess we all just do the best we can, and if our animals do well on it, we can't be doing it *all* wrong! :lol2:


lmao,exactly buddy ,we can all be right on this.As with so many things Sammy there are many differing methods to keep a dart,some contradict each other,but they still work,very effectively. you'll find the methods that are best for you and your circumstances.The main thing is you have as many choices as possible to be aware of and choose from
Stu


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

For hand misting and standing water I use a HMA filter to filter tap water. This removes all of the nasties (as in removes, rather than "locking them up") but leaves the good minerals in. They also don't waste any water like an RO does.

For water to go in my misting system though I use reverse osmosis water, I run a large 5 pod drinking water RO system. I use this as I actually want it to remove the hardness causing minerals as they quickly fur up my nozzles and badly mark the glass.

I don't use rainwater as I don't trust it. I don't use tap water as I trust it even less, and sadly water conditioners don't remove ALL of the nasties that show up in tap water, such as hormones, many heavy metals etc etc. That's just a personal choice though, lots of people use rainwater and tap water quite happily.

Ade


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## samsnake (Mar 10, 2009)

Oh no I have been using water that is left to stand in a bucket for 48 hours as I have read that removes all of the bad things in tap water?
Also been told to use spring water?
Looked at the price of tree fern panels and they are really expensive


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Yeah, that's why I use Gorilla Glue and tree fern fiber. It's a LOT cheaper than the panels, and looks really really good as you can sculpt it a little as the glue foams up. Here, have a read of these, they describe the 2 methods I use:-

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/8602814-post5.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/8602940-post6.html

As you can see, it's VERY simple to do and gives a really really nice look. Heck you can even use orchid bark rather than tree fern fiber or Eco Earth, it still gives a nice look and does the job. I've also used mixes myself of tree fern fiber, peat and orchid bark to give different textures. The peat also speeds up the appearance of mosses and ferns from spores in the peat.

Regarding standing tap water, all that does is remove chlorine. It doesn't remove chloramine, nitrates, hormones, heavy metals or anything else really. You need to run an air stone in it anyway just to drive off chlorine. Modern day tapwater contains a plethora of nasties sadly.

Ade


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