# Doncaster IHS show – posted on behalf of Tim Wass



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

An open letter for publication​ 

*The International Herpetological Society - Doncaster Show, 17th June 2012*​ 

Tim Wass MBE, Independent Animal Welfare Consultant​ 



*Richards Story*​ 

Last Sunday I met Richard. That's not his real name and having to change it to protect him shows you just how ridiculous this has all become. If some are to be believed, Richard sits atop a cruel and exploitative trade in wild animals which is responsible for raping the natural resources of far flung countries. 

I had been asked to conduct a full and open animal welfare review of the International Herpetological Societies (IHS) show in Doncaster. I approached the event with all the normal "eyes wide open" trepidation that I usually do. Am I going to unearth horrible secrets and evidence of animal abuse? Will they be open with me, and most importantly, if I see problems or identify opportunities for improvement will they listen and act? 

A large sports hall is laid out with about a hundred tables, each is occupied by a member of the IHS or another group such as the Federation of British Herpetologists. You can only have a stand if you are a member and you cannot have one if you run a pet shop or are registered for VAT. In other words this is an event for private hobbyists like Richard who in his case breeds snakes and wants to sell so called surplus animals. 

Hang on though, that sounds cruel in itself doesn't it; "Surplus" i.e. not wanted. Well think for a moment about every animal breeder at the Kennel Club or at the National Cat Fancy. Their members are questing to produce the very best example of their chosen breed or species of animal and they certainly can't keep every animal they breed. Reptile breeders and hobbyists like Richard are no different. 
All the members had been written to and asked to cooperate with me fully and to give me completely open access, they did and I will use Richard to illustrate.

He has a very professional, clean and organised stand which displays his own forty or so infant snakes, all are healthy and born here in the UK, in other words Captive Bred. Back at home Richard has a room dedicated to his hobby. I tell him that I think he is slightly strange and he agrees with enthusiasm.

On his stand he has a range of species specific care sheets which he produces at his own cost and freely hands out. He is proud that he "interrogates" potential buyers of his animals and even more proud that twice already that day he had refused to sell a snake because in one case he didn't believe the man had the right level of knowledge, and in the other there was "just something about him I didn't like" 

Whilst I know nothing whatsoever about Snakes, that doesn't mean I can't and don't appreciate their beauty and diversity. So when I pay particular attention to a small and beautifully brightly coloured creature. Richard says "So you like Ian then?" You have got to be kidding me! He has names for them!

I wasn't born yesterday, so I ask him how he can prove it is called "Ian" and I am invited to pick up the box. Sure enough, under it is a card which tells me that the snake is indeed called Ian, moreover it tells me the names of Ian's Mum and Dad. What his unique reference number is, and it has a record of when Ian last fed. 

Still not born yesterday, I muse that all forty must be called Ian? At this point I am introduced to William, and next to him Kate. I pick them up, look at the card, and sure enough the royal namesakes are present and correct. 

Richard is a harsh critic of some within his hobby who he says are on a mission to be the first to breed a new genetic morph. He doesn't think it should be about the money but about the beauty of the animals which he loves. He has a point here, I would hate to see the reptile hobby repeat the mistakes others have.

He certainly does not believe that the public should ever be sold wild caught snakes or reptiles generally (they rarely are these days) and wants to work within the hobby to ensure that if someone wants to have a reptile as a pet, that it comes from a reputable breeder or source who has the right knowledge and interest to pass on to the new owner. 

Richard freely tells me that he does hear a rumour now again about someone not behaving as they should. What he wants is for the organisations he is a member of to get tough. To self regulate effectively and if necessary to expel any bad apples and to report them to the appropriate authorities. I could not agree more.

As a serious hobbyist with the welfare of his animals uppermost, he is desperate to be recognised and accredited. He should be. Richard and those like him should be held up and hailed for their best practice and conduct, whilst those (few) at the other end of the scale should be sought out and exposed for what they are. 

He also believes that specialist pet shops who operate openly, honestly and to the very highest of standards in terms of where their animals come from, together with impeccable welfare and health standards should be accredited. Again he is right. 

He has a completely "open" book philosophy and has nothing to hide. Some years ago he became concerned that it could be alleged that he was earning none disclosed income from his hobby so he started submitting full returns to HMRC. In the tax year 2010/2011 his profit was just short of £3000.00. He smiles when he tells me about his "profit", because it goes straight back into supporting his hobby. 

It was a pleasure to meet Richard, but please do not think for a moment that he is alone. He is typical of nearly everyone I met at the show and very far removed from the rabid, ill informed and scaremongering animal rights description of them.

There are issues to be addressed within this hobby, some are real, some are perception but all are capable of being solved or improved, given some time, effort and a little money. 

What is not up for debate is that pet ownership, including reptiles, is on the increase. Nothing is likely to arrest this trend soon. All that is left then is to decide how we organise ourselves to ensure that it is done properly with correct education, sound husbandry, the best equipment and above all an impeccable approach to animal welfare and conservation.

If you are reading this, and you are one of the tiny percentage who know that you are doing wrong, my message is that you should change or stop now. If you don't, we will find you and you will be dealt with. This great hobby represented by "Richard" and likeminded caring people does not need, want or deserve to have its reputation tarnished by you.

On a personal note, my professional life and vocation has been to find and legally deal with those who abuse animals or visit cruelty upon them. You don't want me knocking at your door. 

In a separate report to the IHS and FBH I will lay out what I believe needs to be done to build on the positive progress so far and to ensure the very highest of standards and compliance within the hobby. In the face of lack of formal regulation and licensing it will focus on tough self regulation which will be designed to give everyone confidence that this hobby and the trade surrounding it, is good, wholesome, caring, appropriate and domestically sustainable.

Much of what I recommend will be based on my interview with Richard and others. You know who you are and thank you! If we get this right, you will be able to come out of the shadows and pursue your hobby without fear or intimidation.


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

Thanks for the update, that letter is very encouraging 

Nice one


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## Gar1on (Mar 27, 2012)

This gives us a few points over the APA, for sure. Thoroughly encouraging read.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Whilst he said nothing most of us wernt already aware of, I think Its brilliant yhaat we have an independent opinion given out by the ex chief of the rspca, into how well we treat our animals.

Well done to all inspected for portraying our hobby in thr best possible light, especially 'richard' for having such a profound impression on Mr Wass MBE.

Thanks for the update, too Chris


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## PythonPaul (Dec 21, 2008)

That is a great letter and a great thing to happen for our hobby and is very much appreciated, but it is telling us what we already know. This needs to be published where all the public can read it, if we want the public on our side.

Publishing it on our forum allows us to read it and feel proud and confident about the welfare of our animals but that doesn't get the message out there to the public which only ever hears the negative stuff.

Well done to those who helped towards this fantastic letter, but we need a way to get that information out there to the public


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

I met Tim Wass, I was very impressed with the reasons he came along, he was willing to listen, share he's knowledge, and most of all the welfare of the animals.
Thankyou Tim.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Very encouraging  Have copied and posted onto the reptile group pages i frequent on FB also x


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## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

great letter, and I hope that magazines and the media are able to pick up on stories such as this in order to elevate the status of a " grown up " hobby.
It was also very good to meet with Tim, at the FBH conference which preceded the Doncaster show on the Saturday.
I think that the content of the Conference also impressed Tim.His frequent references to the talk by Emmanual VanHagen about environmental lighting was certainly noticed. Any hobby, where the keepers are spending significant sums and manufacturers whom are obviously conducting very detailed scientific research into the subject shows a very professional attitude, and one again we can be justifiably proud!
Maybe, the analogy of light can be used to promote the hobby, for it is in my opinion taking us out of the "dark ages" and illuminating the dim and ignorant critics such as the APA. Their arguments and accusations are exposed and through the conduct demonstrated by many at the Doncaster show, their protestations can be shown to be unfounded.
Keep up the good work, FBH!


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

A very encouraging read : victory:


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## badger13 (Mar 5, 2009)

How nice to have an independent view by a respected animal welfare expert.
I hope the Lord Mayor reads this and also send copies to certain news papers 
but then again when have the press been interested in the TRUTH.


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks for posting this Chris interesting read 

it was good to catch up with this at the conference Tim does seem to have a lot of good suggestions while im sure most can be adopted easily others may be less tasteful in some people views but still as long as its all working to wards the common good then i don't see an issue with them 

yep Richard does actually name everything i look at it this way saves me a job for when i get home  

: victory:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

How encouraging it is to read such a nice letter for once. Great job guys


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## Llamekuf (Jul 8, 2011)

Great to get such encouraging and realistic views from someone who has no reason to love the reptile trade.
I do believe however he will soon be painted as an apologist for the Pet trade by the animal rights groups as he has now stuck his head above the parapet and will instantly become a target for their hateful drivel....
Hopefully this and his subsequent full report will be used to assuage the next local authority that believes the the next animal rights group have a right to stop a lawful endeavour.


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## Cockys Royals (Jun 28, 2008)

Enjoyed reading that & thank you


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## fionamuirhowie (Nov 23, 2010)

i have attended shows for years, even if i don't purchase anything, it is important to support the hobby we love and the breeders meetings, but having the FBH and IHS organise these events it makes sure that standards of welfare are set.
I am encouraged by this report, but i don't think we should rest, because before we know it someone else will start and attack on our hobby.
While we as keepers and breeders see it as a hobby, do not forget the local independent shops who are battling hard economic times. We need to fight to keep our breeders meetings and our local specialist exotic shops, who again prefer to buy CB animals. 
I have been to a lot of shows over the years, i have seen a massive decline, then as it comes full circle the increase in them again. I urge everyone to support the shows local to them, join the IHS and any group local to yourselves, they do a lot of good work!


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

"_Whilst I know nothing whatsoever about Snakes.."_

Not a great quote for an independant expert at a reptile fair!?


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## Gar1on (Mar 27, 2012)

Revobuzz said:


> "_Whilst I know nothing whatsoever about Snakes.."_
> 
> Not a great quote for an independant expert at a reptile fair!?


He was there to evaluate their welfare and whether there was any 'abuse' going on as organisations such as the APA (cough) would suggest. I would imagine that Tim Wass was intelligent enough to research the things he needed to know about snakes and indeed, lizards, and then apply it to the IHS meeting.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the conditions of the snakes are acceptable or not - he knows nothing about snakes themselves (their physiology, ecology, morphology etc) but I am sure he knows enough about their care to make an informed evaluation of their condition.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Revobuzz said:


> "_Whilst I know nothing whatsoever about Snakes.."_
> 
> Not a great quote for an independant expert at a reptile fair!?


He wasn't there as an independent expert on snakes or any other species there. He was an expert in animal welfare, and his efforts are going to do a great deal for our hobby


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

I was a trustee of the RSPCA for over 5 years. I know who Tim Wass is and I am totally delighted that he is working with us. 

However, there is now a letter which includes a quote that will be used against us. 

What would we say if the APA had a similar letter from an independent vet who attended Doncaster on their behalf, and it said somehting like "I don't know anything about snakes but it looked cruel to me" 

People on this forum would be jumping all over it.

Tim must know about snakes, it's just not possible for him to have done the jobs he has, so that was why I was puzzled the letter included the quote it did.


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Revobuzz said:


> *I was a trustee of the RSPCA for over 5 years*. .


As the RSPCA has clearly stated it is against the keeping of exotics and around half of their trustees are also known to be members of Animal Aid and the APA that's not exactly the best way to start a reply explaining your initial attack on Tim's letter, is it?

Gordon Glasson
FBH VC


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Revobuzz said:


> "_Whilst I know nothing whatsoever about Snakes.."_
> 
> Not a great quote for an independant expert at a reptile fair!?


He would of learn't alot on the day for sure, he also now knows more than the apa who know nothing.

At least he's honest and willing to find out, apa fail on both departments.


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

Natrix said:


> As the RSPCA has clearly stated it is against the keeping of exotics and around half of their trustees are also known to be members of Animal Aid and the APA that's not exactly the best way to start a reply explaining your initial attack on Tim's letter, is it?
> 
> Gordon Glasson
> FBH VC


Gordon,

It wasn't an "attack". Sorry if it came over as that. I just thought it wasn't a great choice of words given the situation we are facing.


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## gmccurdie (Jun 1, 2012)

Have you ever smirked when you heard someone say "unaccustomed as I am to public speaking”?

I expect he knows enough about snakes and is being polite.

It just amazes me sometimes how people can distil the contents of a post to what they consider its pivotal message. Sometimes their insightfulness amazes me.:notworthy:

:whistling2::whistling2:


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Revobuzz said:


> Gordon,
> 
> It wasn't an "attack". Sorry if it came over as that.* I just thought it wasn't a great choice of words* given the situation we are facing.


Revobuzz

I never imagined it was an attack. What I was highlighting was how easy it is to spoil a perfectly good post by inocently adding a sentence that hits a raw nerve for the reader. 

While the words "I was a trustee of the RSPCA for over 5 years" to you is something to be proud of, to others on this forum it is something to be kept quiet about.

I think most of us new what Tim ment by his statement.

Gordon


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

Natrix said:


> Revobuzz
> 
> I never imagined it was an attack. What I was highlighting was how easy it is to spoil a perfectly good post by inocently adding a sentence that hits a raw nerve for the reader.
> 
> ...


You make some interesting points. I will bear that in mind in future!

To be clear I suspect your comment relates to the Trustees of the National Society. Rather than the Trustees of the Local Branches. 

The RSPCA has the National Society at the top -they set policy, lobby government, run the call centres, train and employ the inspectors and deal with prosecutions etc. 

Below that organisation is a number of local branches, each ran by a board of trustess. They basically run animal centres and charity shops in their area. That was my involvement.

They are all indvidual charities with different charity numbers to the National Society. They recieve no money from the National Society, have no influence on policy and do not control the inspectors in their area.

We rehomed, helped, treated thousands of unwanted injured and mistreated animals and helped promote animal welfare in my area. So yes I think I was proud of what I helped achieve during my time there.

I'm not sure the RSPCA does have a formal written policy on banning exotics - Not in the same way the did with say the hunting ban. 

If you do have some info. on this I would be interested. 

The last report I saw was actually a bit more positive then the BS "Far From Home" one. The general point was encouraging best practice rather than calling for a ban from what I could tell. 

I've not been involved with the RSPCA for over 5 years now, so not really up to speed with how they sit with groups such as ASA. I don't believe there is any formal link, but as you say it does appear that those running the national Soc, and therefore setting policy, are often one and the same. This is a concern.

If the RSPCA did formally have an alliance, and set upon a campaign calling for a ban, in the way they did with fox hunting I would find myself in conflict with that. 

However at the end of the day, for me, the RSPCA is not just about exotics. They also do a lot of things I do support. My dog is an RSPCA rescue. They prosecute illegal dog fighting rings etc. In my mind the good work they do on a day to day basis still outweighs the bad.

Like any organisation there will be a mix of people. Some will be truly fantastic dedicated individuals and others will be barking mad. The thing is you want the truly fantastic ones in charge not the barking mad ones!

I appreciate that many people see them as the enemy, and I can fully appreciate why they have that opinion. I don't see them this way. Well not yet anyway.....


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