# Orange Bitey Thing!



## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

<i>Pterinochilus murinus</i> (RCF)<br>Usumbara Red Baboon (1cm) Suppliers of Arachnids and other quality Invertebrates

:lol2:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Griiiiiiiiiiim...!!


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> <i>Pterinochilus murinus</i> (RCF)<br>Usumbara Red Baboon (1cm) Suppliers of Arachnids and other quality Invertebrates
> 
> :lol2:


got my grown on juvie yesterday although not from spidershop, it wasn't co-operative when it came to transferring it into it's new home.:lol2:


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## JESSLT (Jan 3, 2008)

When did they change the common name?? keepers of orange bitey things and little brown jobs everywhere must unite!! :lol2:


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## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

JESSLT said:


> When did they change the common name?? keepers of orange bitey things and little brown jobs everywhere must unite!! :lol2:


the common name hasnt changed, there are many common names for pterinochilus murinus; orange baboon, orange bitey thing, usumbara oranage baboon etc

i had fun unpacking mine yestarday


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

wow Graz, you're more daring than I'd be, I know someone who was bitten repacking a small one and he ended up in hospital for 3 days!
I consider Orange Bitey Thing as a knickname its aquired in forums, Orange Baboon Tarantula is the correct common name but its good to see people, including Lee, have a sense of humour.
I still have some 5cm ones available


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

How's the mating going Pete? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## andyh75 (Nov 16, 2008)

heres tango my juvie female obt


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## cervantes (Apr 24, 2008)

Is it upsidedown because it's in shed??


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## cervantes (Apr 24, 2008)

Graz said:


> the common name hasnt changed, there are many common names for pterinochilus murinus; orange baboon, orange bitey thing, usumbara oranage baboon etc
> 
> i had fun unpacking mine yestarday


 
Is that from the spidershop? It looks well packaged.


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> wow Graz, you're more daring than I'd be, I know someone who was bitten repacking a small one and he ended up in hospital for 3 days!
> I consider Orange Bitey Thing as a knickname its aquired in forums, Orange Baboon Tarantula is the correct common name but its good to see people, including Lee, have a sense of humour.
> I still have some 5cm ones available


Then the either had a particularly agressive one or were careless in unpackaging. After the stress of shipping all tarantulas can be very nervous (I was attacked by my A.seemanni) but when they've settled in, they're really not bad at all.

Also, Mombassa Starburst Tarantula is the _P.murinus_ accepted common name, Usambara Orange is a colour form only.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

ph0bia said:


> Then the either had a particularly agressive one or were careless in unpackaging. After the stress of shipping all tarantulas can be very nervous (I was attacked by my A.seemanni) but when they've settled in, they're really not bad at all.
> 
> Also, Mombassa Starburst Tarantula is the _P.murinus_ accepted common name, Usambara Orange is a colour form only.


mmm! once again your inexperience shines through.

Mombassa Starburst is the TCF of P. murinus which come from Mombassa. Usambara Orange Baboon is the Red Color Form (as shown in the pic above and on Lee's site) which is the more commonly available of P. murinus.
These are recognised, by rather more experienced and educated people than in this forum, as aggressive tarantula with all the warnings required for such. Their venom is medically significant, recognised by the same and unpredictable. I have 2 that don't budge on disruption, nor do they adopt the strike pose, but complacency will most likely be the thing that gets me.
To suggest they were careless might also suggest some of the most notable taxonomists, keepers and hobbyists were also careless, a rather flippant remark when you don't know the circumstances.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> wow Graz, you're more daring than I'd be, I know someone who was bitten repacking a small one and he ended up in hospital for 3 days!
> *I consider Orange Bitey Thing as a knickname its aquired in forums, Orange Baboon Tarantula is the correct common name but its good to see people, including Lee, have a sense of humour*.
> I still have some 5cm ones available


Yup, that is clearly what it was - a sense of humour.

Nice to see it.

Orange Bitey Thing - I thought that was quite funny.

:whistling2:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Not started the mating yet Becky. Had to split 2 P. regalis - looked very much like one was going to eat the other but it really didnt want to leave the tub. Plus my A. avic seems to be suffering so moved to an ICU. Not really had much time with gigs, M&D for sunday lunch, rehearsals etc.
I shall take a look tonight and may introduce. wish me luck.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Good luck.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Yup, that is clearly what it was - a sense of humour.
> 
> Nice to see it.
> 
> ...


You need to get out more :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> You need to get out more :Na_Na_Na_Na:


I'll think about it.

We will have to PM *The Ministry Of Truth*, first, mind you...


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## MissCat (Mar 9, 2009)

*orange bitey thing*

i had one of those once,
it was evil incarnate i swear.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

To ask if you're allowed out


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> To ask if you're allowed out


Well imagine if I had my _own_ idea to go out.

Then let's say I was hit by a bus.

That would learn me, right?


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

I have just this minute bought a OBT adult female from Lee @ Spidershop im very excited.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

enlightenment said:


> Well imagine if I had my _own_ idea to go out.
> 
> Then let's say I was hit by a bus.
> 
> That would learn me, right?


Ideas are dangerous. Best just to do as you're told, as then it's not your fault if it goes wrong


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I love my OBT girlie. Shes fairly docile but i have seen some pretty naffed off ones. Its like with all spids some are docile and others seem to have a screw loose its not all to do with shipping etc. 
I love the blueish tint on the bottom of their feet lols. Also they are amazing burrowers and webbers .

Pete u should post that pic of the OBTs running around ur bathroom as that was pretty comical.


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Check this out YouTube - The Murinus Escape


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Injection said:


> Check this out YouTube - The Murinus Escape


Would rather not dont wana give my girl ideas :lol2:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Here's the big mama: Bodicia









And the one that said "now try and tub me!!!!"


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## andyh75 (Nov 16, 2008)

cervantes said:


> Is it upsidedown because it's in shed??


no she was in a defence pose , she doesnt hesitate to go into one, i had no problems rehousing her the other day funnily enough though :whistling2:


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

andyh75 said:


> no she was in a defence pose , she doesnt hesitate to go into one, i had no problems rehousing her the other day funnily enough though :whistling2:


These are the problems I had when moving my little horror to her new home! She should have been in a tub.










Then she disapeared up the sleeve of my t-shirt and I wet myself a little. Found her loyally at my waist when I gently took it off.









And finally she's in!









Little terrors. They grow up so fast. :whistling2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

ChrisNE said:


> These are the problems I had when moving my little horror to her new home! She should have been in a tub.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had two of these.

To be honest, I don't think I would have gambled putting it on my person.:gasp:

I find them nervous, aggressive, and fast. 

I also found that once they are settled in, you rarely see them, as they web heavily, and are v nocturnal.

Good if you've never had one, but I probably wouldn't buy one again.


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

Injection said:


> Check this out YouTube - The Murinus Escape


On the one hand thats a bit of a spider poking video....
One the other hand it actually made me lol
In fact I watched it twice and Lol'd both times.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

respect to you ChrisNE, that's something I don't want to see. The worst I had was rehousing them and the one pictured above on the taps, ran across my hand.

Flighty, fast, furious but tremendous fun, gulp!


I still have 4 left for sale if anyone's interested. 5cm £8 each, best I update my slings for sale thread.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

They are incredibly sensitive.

If one happens to be on the underside of the tank one night, and you run your hand gently across the top of the tank, it will rub back to it's hide at such a speed that you cannot fairly see it with the human eye.

I know that all spiders are sensitive in the same way, I just find this species esp so.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> And the one that said "now try and tub me!!!!"


Heres the piccies. They make me laugh everytime i see them


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## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

Wha weird nickname orange bitey thing....Sounds like a Tangoed zombie:lol2:


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> mmm! once again your inexperience shines through.
> 
> Mombassa Starburst is the TCF of P. murinus which come from Mombassa. Usambara Orange Baboon is the Red Color Form (as shown in the pic above and on Lee's site) which is the more commonly available of P. murinus.


Is what I said. They're the same species and the ATS recognises only one common name for each species. Thus, the RCF is referred to as Usambara Mountain Variant.



Poxicator said:


> These are recognised, by rather more experienced and educated people than in this forum, as aggressive tarantula with all the warnings required for such. Their venom is medically significant, recognised by the same and unpredictable. I have 2 that don't budge on disruption, nor do they adopt the strike pose, but complacency will most likely be the thing that gets me.
> To suggest they were careless might also suggest some of the most notable taxonomists, keepers and hobbyists were also careless, a rather flippant remark when you don't know the circumstances.


Medically significant bites would cause it to be considered as DWA. Whilst it is certainly more potent than, say, a Chilean Rose, it's still not 'medically significant' by standard.

As for inexperience and them being "_recognised, by rather more experienced and educated people than in this forum, as aggressive tarantula_", I'm actually repeating what Stanley Schultz posted in reply to a similar topic as this on another forum, in which I did my usual of saying "They are not as aggressive as people make out" and he backed me up.

The "_notable taxonomists_" who were bitten, probably didn't know at the time the temperament of the species properly. After all, if it was yet to be taxonomied, then they didn't exactly know much about it at first.

If you were the guy who taxonomied a Black Widow, and thus had no idea of it's venom and that it was dangerous and you were accustomed with other species that made similar webs etc, you'd likely be forgiven the ignorance when you were bitten by it.


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Injection said:


> Check this out YouTube - The Murinus Escape


Woah!! Now that is one fast T!! Did you catch it ok?


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

Slinkies mum said:


> Wha weird nickname orange bitey thing....Sounds like a Tangoed zombie:lol2:


Nah , more like a Scottish Werewolf .


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Thus, the RCF is referred to as Usambara Mountain Variant.


Hi
So what is the UMV and the DCF?
Cheers
Chris


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## Hisss (May 8, 2008)

'There are four main colour forms, each of which differ slightly in colour and pattern: typical (TCF), red (RCF), Usamburu mountain variant (UMV) and dark (DCF) which isn't available in the hobby yet.'

Taken from the spidershop


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

but, but, but,but, ph0bia said that the RCF is referred to as the Usamburu mountain variant and now you say the UMV is a different one that is a Usamburu mountain variant, and now I don't know whether I am coming or going or if I should wear the red or blue dress to the party!:gasp:








Then again I might just be being pedantic!:devil:
Cheers
Chris


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

tescos said:


> but, but, but,but, ph0bia said that the RCF is referred to as the Usamburu mountain variant and now you say the UMV is a different one that is a Usamburu mountain variant, and now I don't know whether I am coming or going or if I should wear the red or blue dress to the party!:gasp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lols i think Phobia does need to read up on stuff a bit more


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Chris i didn't know you were on this site!


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

Theres a lot you probably don't know about me Becky!:spam1:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

tescos said:


> Theres a lot you probably don't know about me Becky!:spam1:


Haha, you seem suitably wacky, you'll fit right in! :welcome:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

tescos said:


> Theres a lot you probably don't know about me Becky!:spam1:


Hahahaha 

Oh well, you've not been banned from here yet... can't be bad :whistling2:


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

only been a member a couple of days (have viewed and laughed for longer though):whistling2:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

ph0bia said:


> Medically significant bites would cause it to be considered as DWA. Whilst it is certainly more potent than, say, a Chilean Rose, it's still not 'medically significant' by standard.


Wrong! Psalmopeous, Poecilotheria, Haplopelma, Stromatapelma, Pterinochilus, and other baboons are all considered medically significant and none, as yet, are DWA. 



ph0bia said:


> As for inexperience and them being "_recognised, by rather more experienced and educated people than in this forum, as aggressive tarantula_", I'm actually repeating what Stanley Schultz posted in reply to a similar topic as this on another forum, in which I did my usual of saying "They are not as aggressive as people make out" and he backed me up.


One person's opinion in a forum doesn't make it so. Its easy, and often repeated in many forums, to suggest OBTs are not aggressive or to deflect by suggesting they are defensive. Terminology doesn't escape the caution that people are trying to portray, these have a reputation and strong enough venom to back it up. Whether that's as much as people make out is immaterial, these are not the kind of T to mess around with. However, you might find this quote by S. Schultz more convincing "...(the) pet trade is now offering some potentially dangerous species for sale to the public. Most notable of these are the Pterinochilus and Heteroscodra species of Africa..."



ph0bia said:


> The "_notable taxonomists_" who were bitten, probably didn't know at the time the temperament of the species properly. After all, if it was yet to be taxonomied, then they didn't exactly know much about it at first.
> If you were the guy who taxonomied a Black Widow, and thus had no idea of it's venom and that it was dangerous and you were accustomed with other species that made similar webs etc, you'd likely be forgiven the ignorance when you were bitten by it.


From your response I can only fathom that you don't quite grasp taxonomy. Its nothing to do with knowing how venomous a species might be, its classification of a species.


Welcome Chris, I'm sure you'll find this forum an endless source of information


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

> Wrong! Psalmopeous, Poecilotheria, Haplopelma, Stromatapelma, Pterinochilus, and other baboons are all considered medically significant and none, as yet, are DWA.


Considered by who?



> Welcome Chris, I'm sure you'll find this forum an endless source of information


and/or entertainment!: victory: cheers


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm going to assume that you disagree Chris and as I'm running late on feeding and lots of pm's to reply to, I'll settle for this at the mo, with more info to follow.
Currently, the venom of Psalmopeous cambridgei is being explored as an aid for erectile dysfunction.


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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

'medically significant' doesn't particularly pertain to toxicity, as the Pharmaceutical company zenecca was interested in G. porteri / rosea/ cala / spatulata (whatever they were called at the time) because of the analgesic properties of certain compounds in the venom.

also they were interested in the compounds from h. gigas as they blocked R- type calcium channels in the brain (something to do with alzheimers).

while it would probably be agreed that Hysterocrates gigas packs a punch venom wise, chile roses do not,

BOTH are medically significant


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

Why would you assume that I disagree? I'm only asking a question thats all.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

LOL, because you often ask loaded questions Chris, that's all 

Exopet, that makes my point beautifully, thanks


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## tescos (Mar 9, 2009)

Your quite right exopet, however because the thread only mentioned the bite or venom in the DWA or danger side of things, I think this is the only meaning of medically significant that is, or was being disscussed or?

Almost anything can be called medically significant if you want to be pedantic about things.

Cheers
Chris


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> I'm going to assume that you disagree Chris and as I'm running late on feeding and lots of pm's to reply to, I'll settle for this at the mo, with more info to follow.
> Currently, the venom of Psalmopeous cambridgei is being explored as an aid for erectile dysfunction.


Hahahahha sorry but that just made my day. I knew i kept my cambs for a reason now. I dont wana know how u found this our Pete .

Ooooo hi Chris im sure u will find that G.roseas have mega eating problems on this forum :whistling2:


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

tescos said:


> Your quite right exopet, however because the thread only mentioned the bite or venom in the DWA or danger side of things, I think this is the only meaning of medically significant that is, or was being disscussed or?
> 
> Almost anything can be called medically significant if you want to be pedantic about things.
> 
> ...


I could get an infection after being bitten by a puppy. Does that make the puppy's bite medically significant? It seems that people have wildly varying views on what 'medically significant' really means.

Also, whilst writing the P.murinus caresheet, I was advised by nearly ALL of the proof readers to take out the comments appartaining to them having 'medically significant bites'. I cannot recall whom it was who checked all of these, but there are some of them on here and some on Arachnophiles. Those who did not suggest removal did not comment on it at all.

In all honesty, I'll back down here and say, "Sure, it's medically significant" IF you can show me an accurate scientific paper denoting this.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ph0bia said:


> I could get an infection after being bitten by a puppy. Does that make the puppy's bite medically significant? It seems that people have wildly varying views on what 'medically significant' really means.
> 
> Also, whilst writing the P.murinus caresheet, I was advised by nearly ALL of the proof readers to take out the comments appartaining to them having 'medically significant bites'. *I cannot recall whom it was who checked all of these, but there are some of them on here and some on Arachnophiles.* Those who did not suggest removal did not comment on it at all.
> 
> In all honesty, I'll back down here and say, "Sure, it's medically significant" IF you can show me an accurate scientific paper denoting this.


was it the little men in green ships????


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

selina20 said:


> was it the little men in green ships????


Say what??


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

I aint read all this thread, but I think it outlines the problem with common names. There are soooooo many for this T, let alone the numberless others.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

The venom from this T is NOT medically significant! No T has medically significant venom as the meaning of 'medically significant' is usually related to a DWA. There are no DWA T's. If a venom is medically significant it means (commonly) that the animal in question is capable of causing either serious damage, or death in a human. If an animal has venom that can cause that (without a bad reaction) then it is a DWA.


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Incubuss said:


> The venom from this T is NOT medically significant! No T has medically significant venom as the meaning of 'medically significant' is usually related to a DWA. There are no DWA T's. If a venom is medically significant it means (commonly) that the animal in question is capable of causing either serious damage, or death in a human. If an animal has venom that can cause that (without a bad reaction) then it is a DWA.


Bang. Thank you. 

May I now also add with a hint of 'venom' to my tone that all who shoot me and my posts down as inexperienced (due to only having kept tarantulas for a matter of months) that I draw most of my knowledge not from my personal keeping experience but from dealing with spiders and extensive research and reading.

And as I now think I understand selina20s more-than-sarcastic post, I'd like to say that Incubuss was one of the ones who did indeed make this comment, I sent the caresheets via PM to a number of people.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ph0bia said:


> Bang. Thank you.
> 
> May I now also add with a hint of 'venom' to my tone that all who shoot me and my posts down as inexperienced (due to only having kept tarantulas for a matter of months) that I draw most of my knowledge not from my personal keeping experience but from dealing with spiders and extensive research and reading.
> 
> And as I now think I understand *selina20s more-than-sarcastic post*, I'd like to say that Incubuss was one of the ones who did indeed make this comment, I sent the caresheets via PM to a number of people.


Me sarcastic never lols. 

Tbh i know where u are coming from iv been shot down numerous times due to inexperience but i have to say you do seem VERY cocky in some of ur posts. Maybe if u toned this down a little u would make more friends and less enemies then the forum would move onto another witch hunt lols.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

agreed with Selina
Your problem, as I've mentioned before, is your accuracy, its often made on assumptions and quite often incorrect and you often accept that yourself. Its rather bold to say I don't believe such and such until I see papers when you put your own argument across without the support of papers. Now I could search all day to find something I read, provide the papers and the end result would be that you accept that as fact but if the description of the argument is diluted to suit your own then its rather pointless. Your replies in the expert thread were a prime example and basically made anyone with reasonable knowledge an expert, pfff!
And in this thread you're arguing about "medically significant". Whilst I take Chris's point about the attachment to dangerous venom I personally think thats a misconception. 
There are studies going on exploring the venom of tarantula and some of these studies are suggesting that there might be benefits, some to explore how the venom works and some merely to get a greater understanding (or at least I didn't fathom where these studies were going, perhaps because no conclusions were documented). I suggest, if you want papers go and look for them and educate yourself.

As for DWA and "medically significant" venom, its been rumoured in BTS that the genus Poecilotheria are being considered to move into DWA. 
The law in Poland is currently changing to restrict the following species and these are recommended to be handed over to zoological societies.
_Poecilotheria_ sp., _Ceratogyrus_ sp. and _Pterinochilus_ sp.

Now, we can tear apart the description, our definitions, our colour forms and our opinions, its all part of a forum. But what's been argued here doesn't need definitions to be argued over. The simple fact is OBTs are considered by many very experienced ppl to be highly aggressive or defensive and care should be taken. That doesnt mean each time you open the enclosure you're likely to get bitten, nor does it mean because it doesnt react its not capable of such. What's been offered is words of caution so that we might base our keeping of OBTs armed with that.
If you don't want to take my advice on it here's a selection of caresheets repeating those sentiments:

Phil Messenger
info P murinus R.C.F

Guy Tansley
Pterinochilus species description

Mikhail F. Bagaturov
Pterinochilus | Theraphosids of the World. Kepping and breeding in captivity

"The exact composition of the Neurotoxin is still unknown. It is however known that the central and peripheral nervous system is affected. Symptoms are among other things: burning pain around the area of the bite, repeated vomiting as well as shock characters and circulatory collapse (SCHMIDT, 1993)."


Inexperience is something we all suffer from, we're all still learning and most of us only have specific experience within no more than 20 genus. I'm inexperienced too. We're all still students, trying to help each other with our individual experience but it makes no sense to purport information when that information can easily be discredited, and nor does it make sense to over ride the experience of others with the inexperience of ourselves. Sharing information is key, open to valid information should be our goal but we shouldn't brand ourselves with, and I'll quote Martin Huber here "_My opinion is fixed – please don't irritate me with the truth_!"


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

I took delivery of my adult female yesterday from spidershop got to say they are very active well mine is and fast i shat myself unpacking the thing, but it went very well.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Those wishing to read papers might wish to explore these:
BREITSCHWERDT, M. (2005): Folgen und Behandlung eines Bissunfalls mit Poecilotheria ornata POCOCK 1899. ARACHNE 10(6): 26-28.
CHARPENTIER, P. (199?): Stromatopelma Bites. Exothermae 1(1).
CHARPENTIER, P. (1992): Heterscodra maculata. British Tarantula Society Journal 8(2): 11-19.
DIAZ, J. H. (2004): The global epidemiology, syndromic classification, management, and prevention of spider bites. Am. J. Trop. Med. Hyg. 71(2): 239-250.
DOUGHERTY, T. J., T. F. GREENE, W. R. BURKEY & A. RODI (2004): Envenomation from a "Fringed Ornamental" Tarantula (Poecilotheria ornata). Clinical Toxicology 42(5): 768.
FREYVOGEL, T. A., C. G. HONEGGER & Z. MARETIC (1968): Zur Biologie und Giftigkeit der ostafrikanischen Vogelspinne Pterinochilus spec. Acta tropica 25(3): 217-255.
GABRIEL, R. (2002): Notes and Observations Regarding the Bite of Poecilotheria pederseni. British Tarantula Society Journal Vol.17(No.2): 61-64.
HALE, R. & A. HALE (1999): The Cause and Effect on the bite of Selenocosmia lanipes. British Tarantula Society website.
HÖFLER, S. (1996): Auswirkungen eines Bisses von Poecilotheria fasciata (LATREILLE, 1804). Arachnol. Mag. 4(7): 8-10.
ISBISTER, G. K., J. E. SEYMOUR, M. R. GRAY & R. J. RAVEN (2003): Bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and canines. Toxicon 41: 519-524.
JOHNSON, A. (1991): Hospital discussion. British Tarantula Society Journal 6(3): 12-13.
LIANG, S. (2004): An overview of peptide toxins from the venom of the Chinese bird spider Selenocosmia huwena WANG [ = Ornithoctonus huwena (WANG)]. Toxicon 43: 575-585.
LIESKE, H. (2005): Ein Erfahrungsbericht über den folgenreichen Biss einer Poecilotheria fasciata (LATREILLE, 1804). ARACHNE 10(6): 29-23.
LUCAS, S. M., P. I. DA SILVA JR, R. BERTANI & J. L. C. CARDOSO (1994): Mygalomorph spiders bites: a report on 91 cases in the state of Sao Paulo, Brazil. Toxicon 32(10): 1211-1215.
MEBS, D. (2000a): Schwarze Witwe. Pages 195-198. Gifttiere. Ein Handbuch für Biologen, Toxikologen, Ärzte und Apotheker. Wissenschaftliche Verlagsgesellschaft mbH Stuttgart, Stuttgart.
MEBS, D. (2000b): Vogelspinnen. Pages 207-208. Gifttiere. Ein Handbuch für Biologen, Toxikologen, Ärzte und Apotheker. Wissenschaftliche Verlagsgesellschaft mbH Stuttgart, Stuttgart.
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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Yet why is it then that people recommend an OBT as the "Beginners Defensive", the one species you get to 'train' yourself for more advanced species like H.mac?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

mmm! now that's a good question and I've seen that in books too.
I don't know enough about Africans to give more than an opinion but whilst Pterinochilus has a strong venom there are other baboons which are more likely to bite and have stronger venom. Heteroscodra and Stromatapelma seem the heavies and some have suggested these will actively attack rather than defend. Ceratogyrus I think are similar to Pterinochilus but as I've suggested above, there isn't enough valid information on the potency of the venom, hence its hard to find papers that will provide the ultimate answer. 
I've seen so many posts in forums of ppl saying they were bit by an African baboon and suffered minor issues. That's no basis to form an educated opinion as it could be a dry bite, a mechanical bite or an envenomation. No quantity of venom is measured and as these are often accidents its impossible to provide accurate accounts of the environment and health of the individual. So repeating these sentiments just dilutes the caution that many in this thread have tried to relay. Think of it as teaching kids to cross the road.
What I have found is feeding/rehousing/packing the likes of P. murinus is that they are more likely to hold their ground (quite literally) than attack and we can use that to our advantage. Remember, we're rarely more than a tub away when feeding. I often take the top layer of substrate out of the enclosure and put it into the packing when posting OBTs. They are then far more likely to move from one enclosure to the next because they'll move with their webbing.
I think the best set-up for these Africans is a large deep tub which allows them to burrow. That provides space for them to grow, and means you're not in such close contact with them. That initself makes for a less aggressive African and less likely to do a runner when you're doing any maintenance/watering/feeding.


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> there isn't enough valid information on the potency of the venom


Forgive me pulling that line out there, it just kind of cements what I was saying about these guys and their bites.

Also, yes, I agree wholly. These tarantulas are very defensive when in or near their burrow, they won't outwardly leap and attack you but will stand their ground. That's what I'm getting at when I say that people exaggerate these.

People claim they're speedy buggers (which they are) which will dart up your arm if startled (which they will if they have no burrow) and bite (which they won't if they're running from a perceived threat). Basically, the way to get bitten is to be poking them or dealing with them carelessly (and I say carelessly, because even the best who get bitten attribute it to their own complacency) near the burrow. Once they're out of their comfort zone they are incredibly timid and will try more to run than to consider biting. Don' forget, the spider is aware you're hundreds of times larger than it.

Sounds like a good set-up too. I seem to find that most_ Pterinochilus _act almost like obligate burrowers, like the _Haplopelma_ species if given the environment. Else they seem to go semi-arboreal, building extensive web tubing.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I think an arboreal set-up might be my next choice for an individual but its seems some are more disposed to this than others and possibly there's a link within the colour forms. Unfortunately even these vary with RCF ranging from Orange to Red.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Injection said:


> I took delivery of my adult female yesterday from spidershop got to say they are very active well mine is and fast* i shat myself unpacking the thing,* but it went very well.


 
:lol2: Loving the honesty.


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Mate seriously it was a breeze :lol2: she has cocooned herself against a lump of cork bark already and was running around the tank in circles this morning like she was on patrol made me chuckle


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Injection said:


> Mate seriously it was a breeze :lol2: she has cocooned herself against a lump of cork bark already and was running around the tank in circles this morning like she was on patrol made me chuckle


I had one that jumped right out the viv, onto the carpet!

Thankfully it stood still, permitting me to place something over it, and get it back in safely.


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

That's what I mean, they're really not that scary.

If you put in enough soil, they seem to act as though an obligate burrower. If you don't put much in, add a load of anchor points and they'll create tunnels of webbing above ground. My P.chordatus did this, and it was spectacular.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

ph0bia said:


> That's what I mean, they're really not that scary.
> 
> If you put in enough soil, they seem to act as though an obligate burrower. If you don't put much in, add a load of anchor points and they'll create tunnels of webbing above ground. My P.chordatus did this, and it was spectacular.


People often over state how 'scary' many inverts are, mate.

Look at the reputation of camel spiders, and the related myths, for example.


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## karmadog (Oct 9, 2008)

ChrisNE said:


> These are the problems I had when moving my little horror to her new home! She should have been in a tub.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great photos!! You are certainly very brave - as much as I love spiders I don't think I'd have one of these wandering around my person!!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I had to package 5 OBTs last night. One did the usual "I'm hanging on to this webbing for my life" which makes it easy to rehouse or package. The 2nd wasn't impressed at all with me taking the lid off and laying the tub on its side. Straight into threat pose, legs back, fangs extended, bang! It struck, and happily it missed. For 20 minutes it held the pose and struck at the cricket box 5 times! Eventually it struck once more and made a hasty retreat into its burrow. On went the lid and it's going out, tubbed up, with substrate. Phew!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Sometimes when the more nervous spiders, and faster one's are sent to me, what I do is set the tank up, then place the entire pot it has arrived in, _inside _the tank.

Eventually it emerges by itself, and I can use tongs to remove the packaging tub later on.

This worked well when I received my Huntsman spiders.


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> I had to package 5 OBTs last night. One did the usual "I'm hanging on to this webbing for my life" which makes it easy to rehouse or package. The 2nd wasn't impressed at all with me taking the lid off and laying the tub on its side. Straight into threat pose, legs back, fangs extended, bang! It struck, and happily it missed. For 20 minutes it held the pose and struck at the cricket box 5 times! Eventually it struck once more and made a hasty retreat into its burrow. On went the lid and it's going out, tubbed up, with substrate. Phew!


Don't wanna be the person that has to unwrap that!!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Sometimes when the more nervous spiders, and faster one's are sent to me, what I do is set the tank up, then place the entire pot it has arrived in, _inside _the tank.
> 
> Eventually it emerges by itself, and I can use tongs to remove the packaging tub later on.
> 
> This worked well when I received my Huntsman spiders.


That's exactly what I do. Infact I do this for lots of species that don't seem to want to leave their old tubs. Its less stress for them and quite simply easier.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> That's exactly what I do. Infact I do this for lots of species that don't seem to want to leave their old tubs. Its less stress for them and quite simply easier.


It works fine with spiders.

However, when I set up my Weta tank, I put in a lot of branches and so on, and because of that, it was a lot harder to put the three Weta's in the same way, esp as there were two in one box, and one in another, and they all had to go into the_ same_ tank.

I wasn't sure of what there behaviours might be upon getting disturbed, but I persisted, eventually managing to get them in.

It took them a while to leave the tubs, but with patience, they finally did, and I was able to complete the task.


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## SpiderGirl33 (Sep 2, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Sometimes when the more nervous spiders, and faster one's are sent to me, what I do is set the tank up, then place the entire pot it has arrived in, _inside _the tank.
> 
> Eventually it emerges by itself, and I can use tongs to remove the packaging tub later on.
> 
> This worked well when I received my Huntsman spiders.


I did that for my OBT, but overnight it webbed up the pot and used it sort of like a base for the rest of it's little web tunnels, so I couldn't take the pot out cos that would be mean! :lol:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

SpiderGirl33 said:


> I did that for my OBT, but overnight it webbed up the pot and used it sort of like a base for the rest of it's little web tunnels, so I couldn't take the pot out cos that would be mean! :lol:


Hmm.

Good point.

There is the chance of that, I guess.

Like you say though, leaving it in there would not do it any harm, AFAIK.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

that doesnt worry me tbh, sometimes they stick with the pot for a while but eventually they outgrow it and make their webbing elsewhere.


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