# Are shops still usefull?



## liam peel

So answering my ownnquestion here but yeah I still think pet shops are great. For most people who have say 1 snake its perfect they can go down for advice on issues, get their weekly mouse/rat, get their substrate by the bag and bulk buying may not really be the best thing for them just as much as the person who own a single cresty why bulk buy live food for 90% to die off before eating it.

My argument is more for the animals themselves. With places such as lrelovedz gumtree, morph market and the classic word of mouth it makes me think are we always going to see these shops survive and selling aninals or will they simply become more of a supply store selling what you need to care for the animals just not the animal itself.

Now don't get me wrong I love pet stores, I am one of those people who will visit 4 or 5 reptile shops in a day just for fun I would honestly love to actually own my own reptile shop one day but for the reasons I listed above I fear that it will be a dying buissines.

What are your thoughts?


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## Alibosk

Hopefully they will always have a place for the first time buyer. I got my first snake a couple of years ago, I have always loved snakes but parents hated them and life moved on. Then a couple of years ago I realized I was an adult and could do what I liked 😂 (i.e own income, house etc). So started doing all the research and decided to get a corn but had 1 small issue, I hadn't actually ever handled a snake. By going to a local reptile shop I was able to handle an adult corn (which I ended up purchasing) and realise it was something I wanted to move forward with 😊😊😊. I think for a lot of people this will be a familiar intro into the hobby. 

Since then I've purchased 3 more beautiful snakes but all 3 came from reptile shops (although 2 of these shops do advertise on morphmarket). 

Don't know if this helps with your post but just my experience.


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## LiasisUK

First time keepers should use shops over private breeders. I always recommend them instead of reptile shows for newbies. 

Shops are needed. Support your local!


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## Malc

The issue retails reptile shops face is that people see a bog standard normal royal listed for £90 (current trade prices form wholesalers is typically £50-£60 at the moment) and then as part of the research discover shed loads listed on forums and market places for less than a price of a pack of **** (I recently commented on a listing on this forum to that fact). But what you seldom get from buying privately is the support afterwards.

I purchased my first royal for £90 in 1989 form a shop where I forged a very good friendship with the manager over the following years. Bare in mind that back then the internet wasn't around so we couldn't google for care sheets or post on forums for advice. I didn't even know at the time of purchase that large local societies existed. It was only then did I discover shows where private breeders would sell at around 50% below retail pricing.....

It's interesting that a lot of shops also support local breeders, who intern are supporting the shops when surplus stocks are purchased by the shop. Of two retailer I deal with they have both stated that they prefer to purchase form local breeders. I don't breed for profit, just to cover running / feeding costs, and granted you won't get the same prices selling to a retailer than selling to private individuals, but often they are fair and I've never been ripped off by the shops I sell to. After all, they have their ever increasing overheads to cover, and need to put bred on the table too. If the local shops close then it impacts the local breeders to...


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## Thrasops

Good shops are absolutely needed and are absolutely the best place for beginners to get their animals. The reason for this is pretty obvious; a shop should be able to spend time advising on the best way to keep any given animal and provide the equipment to do so. They will often refuse a sale to anybody obviously not prepared. I have spent several days at Snakes n Adders for example and the service and knowledge Chaz gives out is inspiring, you can tell he really relishes taking the time to make sure his customers have everything they need to start off and is always there to offer advice when they return.

Obviously there are bad shops as well as good ones and a beginner might not be aware of which is which, which is why word of mouth and good reviews are so important. But this is the same for anywhere they might purchase animals.


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## Swindinian

I like shops and enjoy visiting them, when the opportunity arises.

I sometimes travel for work, and if timing permits, and I am passing, then it is a real treat to drop into a ’Speciality’ pet shop. Usually, I will show support by buying supplies, although I wouldn’t pretend to be a major revenue stream for them.

I have bought a rainbow boa from Reptile Cymru in Cardiff
I also bought a pair of neonates from Rainforest Exotics in Ross
I bought 4 BRBs from a private breeder but let the local reptile shop have one at cost (store credit), so kinder supporting them.

I have bought most pets from private breeders and vivs second hand.

I have had positive experiences at
Reptile Cymru, Cardiff
Reptilush, Swindon
Rainforest Exotics, Ross
Ridgeway Exotics near Fareham
Southampton Reptile (Southampton)
The Jungle near West Drayton
Emsworth Reptiles UK, Portsmouth
Amazonia Exotics, north of Swansea
Dragon Reptiles, north of Cardiff
DM Reptiles, Plymouth
Plymouth Reptile & Aquatic
Shirley Aquatics, south of Birmingham
Reptile Plus, Bournemouth
Reptilarium, Bournemouth
Evolution reptiles near Oxford
Reptasia, Farnham
Porton Aquatics, near Salisbury
Exotics shop (closed or moved)? Isle of Wight


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## TheHouseofReptilez

I agree reptile stores are needed I just think more places need to educate there employees on the care and husbandry requirements of some species, 

I got one of my corns from a reptile store out of town and the lass who served me was very rude she also didn't have a clue what she was talking about she questioned what I was planning on keeping the snake in and I said a 46 x 30 and was told that is way too big to which I said no it isn't as long as the enclosure has plenty of places for the snake to hide and there is no way they can escape you can keep them in any sized enclosure you like she kept talking over me and continued being very rude till it got to the point where myself and my partner had enough we handed over the money and walked out since that day we haven't gone back to the store,

But my local reptile store is amazing two of my 3 snakes came from them we have a great friendship with the owners they are polite and well clued up on all the species they keep and sell and having them just five minutes away from where I live it's It's easy to walk down grab some frozen mice and a few bags of substrate,

They are only a small local store but they do go above and beyond to help out every person who walks in the door.


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## liam peel

ThatCornSnakeGuy said:


> I agree reptile stores are needed I just think more places need to educate there employees on the care and husbandry requirements of some species,
> 
> I got one of my corns from a reptile store out of town and the lass who served me was very rude she also didn't have a clue what she was talking about she questioned what I was planning on keeping the snake in and I said a 46 x 30 and was told that is way too big to which I said no it isn't as long as the enclosure has plenty of places for the snake to hide and there is no way they can escape you can keep them in any sized enclosure you like she kept talking over me and continued being very rude till it got to the point where myself and my partner had enough we handed over the money and walked out since that day we haven't gone back to the store,
> 
> But my local reptile store is amazing two of my 3 snakes came from them we have a great friendship with the owners they are polite and well clued up on all the species they keep and sell and having them just five minutes away from where I live it's It's easy to walk down grab some frozen mice and a few bags of substrate,
> 
> They are only a small local store but they do go above and beyond to help out every person who walks in the door.


I fully agree more staff need to be more educated.
Often I've popped into the local pets at home and honestly been bored and just asked the staff to tell me requirements about this snake, this lizard ect. Now ofcourse I'm not expecting the answers to some questions (do you know what the pairing was) don't need to know for a banana ball python i legit just like knowing what its parents were regardless what the animal is. 
I do sometimes like to ask "what size enclosure do you thibi is best" and often get different answers. I do always like "well it can love in 3x1x1 but I think a 4x2x1 is much better for xyz reason and you can see the ones who do know their stuff and not just using that as an upscale tactic.

Again though definitely noticed some staff who know nothing and give the wrong advice. I used to work in a pet store and someone asked me for advice on tortoises and ill be honest I told them I know nothing about tortoises still to this day I know so little about them, directed them to someone more knowledgeable then me.
Worst part is if you go to a specialty store, I expect them to know their stuff, if I get told the incorrect information and didn't know better im going to then pass that info on hence whynwe end up with so many "well my mate has 3 bearded dragons together they're fine they hug".


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## TheHouseofReptilez

liam peel said:


> I fully agree more staff need to be more educated.
> Often I've popped into the local pets at home and honestly been bored and just asked the staff to tell me requirements about this snake, this lizard ect. Now ofcourse I'm not expecting the answers to some questions (do you know what the pairing was) don't need to know for a banana ball python i legit just like knowing what its parents were regardless what the animal is.
> I do sometimes like to ask "what size enclosure do you thibi is best" and often get different answers. I do always like "well it can love in 3x1x1 but I think a 4x2x1 is much better for xyz reason and you can see the ones who do know their stuff and not just using that as an upscale tactic.
> 
> Again though definitely noticed some staff who know nothing and give the wrong advice. I used to work in a pet store and someone asked me for advice on tortoises and ill be honest I told them I know nothing about tortoises still to this day I know so little about them, directed them to someone more knowledgeable then me.
> Worst part is if you go to a specialty store, I expect them to know their stuff, if I get told the incorrect information and didn't know better im going to then pass that info on hence whynwe end up with so many "well my mate has 3 bearded dragons together they're fine they hug".


It's funny you say that I actually have a friend who keeps a male and female bearded dragon together he did try to put them in seprate enclosures but the male stopped eating and became quite aggressive so he put them back together male started eating again and the male stopped being aggressive lol,

I'm still fairly new to keeping snakes and I'm not ashamed to say that I go day to day learning more and more as I go I have Malc, Ian and a few others on here to thank for most of the help, If it wasn't for RFUK I wouldn't know nearly as much about my corns husbandry as I do now,

In most cases reptile stores give great advice at least most of the one's I've visited have but in some cases place hire staff who don't know anything about a specific species and someone who is looking to buy there first reptile goes into that store and is given a bunch of infomation that is wrong dependent on which species it is that animal could end up sick or worse dead,

I just feel some places could do more to educate there staff before letting them loose in the store that way the animals get the correct care they require.


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## QWERTYOP

Thrasops said:


> Good shops are absolutely needed and are absolutely the best place for beginners to get their animals. The reason for this is pretty obvious; a shop should be able to spend time advising on the best way to keep any given animal and provide the equipment to do so. They will often refuse a sale to anybody obviously not prepared. I have spent several days at Snakes n Adders for example and the service and knowledge Chaz gives out is inspiring, you can tell he really relishes taking the time to make sure his customers have everything they need to start off and is always there to offer advice when they return.
> 
> Obviously there are bad shops as well as good ones and a beginner might not be aware of which is which, which is why word of mouth and good reviews are so important. But this is the same for anywhere they might purchase animals.


I wish I lived close to Snakes n Adders. Chaz comes across brilliantly in their videos. He’s clearly highly knowledgeable & cares about the animals rather than just seeing them as a way to pay the mortgage. I’d love to just sit & chat to the guy. I’m certain I’d come away from a conversation with him as a better keeper. Unfortunately, my local exotics place is quite the opposite. But they’re the only show in town, so at times I have to deal with them. If you have a shop like Snakes n Adders in your local area, cherish it and support them. Not everywhere is like them unfortunately.


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## Thrasops

QWERTYOP said:


> I wish I lived close to Snakes n Adders. Chaz comes across brilliantly in their videos. He’s clearly highly knowledgeable & cares about the animals rather than just seeing them as a way to pay the mortgage. I’d love to just sit & chat to the guy. I’m certain I’d come away from a conversation with him as a better keeper. Unfortunately, my local exotics place is quite the opposite. But they’re the only show in town, so at times I have to deal with them. If you have a shop like Snakes n Adders in your local area, cherish it and support them. Not everywhere is like them unfortunately.


I wish I did too... I have to travel half way across the country to get there sadly. But it is worth it!


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## Swindinian

Thrasops said:


> I wish I did too... I have to travel half way across the country to get there sadly. But it is worth it!


There are a fair few shops I’d like to visit but not had a chance to.

I nearly got to visit SnA in September when our department at work were doing a charity/team hike Yorkshire 3 peaks, and I could have dropped in on the return journey. Unfortunately, I pulled out as my wife busted her ankle, and a few other issues collided. 
CPR is another one I’ve never been to yet.


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## LiasisUK

Store recommendations from me are:

Rainforest exotics in Ross
Global geckos surrey
Penfolds reptiles in Herne Bay

EDIT: Ameyzoo in Herts


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## ian14

Swindinian said:


> There are a fair few shops I’d like to visit but not had a chance to.
> 
> I nearly got to visit SnA in September when our department at work were doing a charity/team hike Yorkshire 3 peaks, and I could have dropped in on the return journey. Unfortunately, I pulled out as my wife busted her ankle, and a few other issues collided.
> CPR is another one I’ve never been to yet.


CPR is tiny. Most of the shop is actually an aquatics shop. A lot of their herp stock is kept off view.


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## ian14

LiasisUK said:


> Store recommendations from me are:
> 
> Rainforest exotics in Ross
> Global geckos surrey
> Penfolds reptiles in Herne Bay


Ameyzoo in Hertfordshire is a good one


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## LiasisUK

ian14 said:


> Ameyzoo in Hertfordshire is a good one


Oh yes! Knew I missed someone


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## johntog

What about Lost World Reptiles in Teynham Kent


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## Malc

ian14 said:


> Ameyzoo in Hertfordshire is a good one


I've known Mark since the mid 1990's - He's a very knowledgeable guy and always makes you feel welcome. I was there just a few weeks ago, and whilst a lot of the space where in the old days he used to have his large retics and Burms out back is now used for dry goods, there is still plenty to see.


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## LiasisUK

Mark sold me my first ever snake; a corn who passed away in December aged 20


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## ian14

LiasisUK said:


> Mark sold me my first ever snake; a corn who passed away in December aged 20


Mark does sometimes have a bad reputation as being blunt and abrupt.
I've known him for years, I first met him when his first shop was in a garden centre with some venomous snakes on display under the counter.
I personally have always found him to be warm, open and more than happy to spend time talking about herps.
I believe that those who see him as blunt and abrupt mistake his upfront approach for bluntness. 
He simply will not sell an animal unless he is satisfied that you know how to care for and house it.
That, to me, is how a dealer should be. Putting welfare before a sale.
A small shop, but has some real gems in there.
I to this day regret not grabbing the pair of blue phase trinket snakes he had in once


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## Malc

ian14 said:


> I first met him when his first shop was in a garden centre with some venomous snakes on display under the counter.


Was that at Crewers Hill ? - I remember he was dating the late Lez Fuller at the time she opened a reptile business on the site of the garden centre. Sadly she tragically took her own life a few years after setting up the business at the garden centre, and I believe Mark kept it running for a while before either selling up or closing it and moving the business to what is now Amyzoo. 

Yes Mark says it as he sees it, and doesn't beat around the bush. Some would even go as far as labelling him as a tad arrogant... But I've always got on well with him.


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## ian14

Malc said:


> Was that at Crewers Hill ? - I remember he was dating the late Lez Fuller at the time she opened a reptile business on the site of the garden centre. Sadly she tragically took her own life a few years after setting up the business at the garden centre, and I believe Mark kept it running for a while before either selling up or closing it and moving the business to what is now Amyzoo.
> 
> Yes Mark says it as he sees it, and doesn't beat around the bush. Some would even go as far as labelling him as a tad arrogant... But I've always got on well with him.


I assume so. 
It was a long, long time ago.
My sadly deceased aunt took me there (she was a horticulturalist with her own business) simply because she had been to the garden centre and found a reptile shop inside it.
I've often seen him labelled as arrogant. I would disagree, he is passionate and caring about the animals he sells, and always makes sure that a prospective buyer knows how to care for it.
I have been there when he has refused a sale, telling the customer to go and learn first. But done in a constructive way, advising books etc to read.
It's that approach that the hobby needs.


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## LiasisUK

I remember that garden centre, it was on some back roads near Watford behind the Grove hotel/estate. My dad took me there and bought me a stick insect. Mark had a huge display viv with burms in it, some weird exotic rodents and I remember there being some Uroplatus henkeli in a viv that blew my mind. I think I was 9. Its now a housing development.

Mark is great, people have said to me in the past they think he is rude, arrogant, abrupt etc but I always found him lovely. I think he just gets a bit fed up of people acting like they know more than him when they don't. I've always got along well with him, even as a kid, as I was always enthusiastic and understood what I was told or was able to speak about certain species on the same level or higher. 

My first ever job was at Ameyzoo. It didn't last very long as I got offered a job at an aquatics store (I was big into fish at the time) and that was more hours and paid better. 

I still speak to Mark sometimes to this day and got an exotic mammal off him last year. 
In an odd way he is probably one of the people I'm still in contact with who I've known the longest!!


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## Malc

LiasisUK said:


> I remember that garden centre, it was on some back roads near Watford behind the Grove hotel/estate.


If that's the case then it's not the one I was thinking of. Crew's hill is not far form the the A10/M25 junction... The business was Repider gold - set up not far form Crews Hill reptiles


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## LiasisUK

Ah ok, i have been to Crews Hill but I don't remember Mark ever being there, if he was it was before my time.


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## Malc

LiasisUK said:


> Ah ok, i have been to Crews Hill but I don't remember Mark ever being there, if he was it was before my time.


Well I was on the committee of the MKHS in 1991, so it must have been '92- 96 era.....so a good 25-30 years back. I believe at the time Mark was working at Paradise Wildlife Park when. I can't recall if he had any connection with the business, ie business partner or the only connection being the boyfriend of Lesley Fuller who owned Repider Gold. I can't recall if he was still seeing her at the time of her death... I'm old and can't remember details that far back 😢 

Tied in to this discussion, and the thread Topic, prior to setting up Repider Gold, Lesley had previously set up a reptile shop in Nuneaton with her previous boyfriend. The shop had been running well and with so many people in the society having surplus corns etc, the shop had a good supply of stock, and got a very good reputation. It also had a very large and loyal customer base. However I seem to recall though that for some reason or another Lesly stripped the shop bare one weekend prior to setting up in Enfield, which came as a shock to all its customers and her partner, both were unaware of what she was doing at the time.

Another shop I remember was based in Northampton, at the same time (again mid 90's) and was run by a shrewd business woman called Mel (can't remember her full name). She was very knowledgeable and like a few other shop owners, would vet the potential owner of a new reptile before selling it, even a hatchling corn !


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## loxocemus

if shops are to remain they have be tapped into what people currently want and predict and take a risk on new/of old species, and essentially improve their stock lists, but not go nuts on the overpricing that I've noticed in a couple of shops, just because a species hasn't been seen in a while, that's gives a reputation of just taking the piss, and therefore to avoid.

they NEED a social media presence that has photos and prices of what they have in stock, not just call the shop option, that is quite off putting, will it mean more work for them absolutely.

don't stock 100 different corns, yes their the staple but their going to be left with too many especially basic genes, expand garters cali kings, various rats and many other colubrids, small/med boids, DO NOT stock iguanas savs, water monitors babies, very large constrictors, all the throwaway species (especially lizards, wc green anoles i mean c'mon), it gives the impression in 2022 that the shop is stuck in the past, buys the cheapest shit on wholesalers lists and should be avoided. avoid wc specimens of common species that are available as cb.

small numbers of many species will get you a reputation a 100 corns and sav babies simply wont.

gumtree and preloved are for buying a sofa not a snake, if you want to risk a bad experience with no comeback to save a few quid, go ahead, but don't bitch about it afterwards.

if shops are to survive they need to recognise times have changed, they need to be ahead of the curve, not fill their shops with plants and bark with few animals hoping the bioactive craze will keep them afloat, it won't. a random example of a great shop is global geckos, all CB, a great standpoint, excellent shop for lizards but not for snakes.

if a shop has a website keep it updated, if they have a facebook keep it updated, photos photos sell animals. if they offer the courier option that expands their buyers greatly.

if shops are to survive they must lead the way on what they want the hobby to be, connect with local hobbyists buy their animals, spread the wealth spread the species, but if ur determined to stay in the past you will close 100% guaranteed.

rgds
ed
ps this relates to my tortoise rant on the smuggling thread, if a shop sells a tort to someone obviously educated in just the basics, ie buying a tort table setup too, they should be *open and honest *about the potential lifespan and the need to take that into account in their purchase. i doubt few will risk that kind of sale by putting doubt into the buyers mind though.


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## liam peel

loxocemus said:


> if shops are to remain they have be tapped into what people currently want and predict and take a risk on new/of old species, and essentially improve their stock lists, but not go nuts on the overpricing that I've noticed in a couple of shops, just because a species hasn't been seen in a while, that's gives a reputation of just taking the piss, and therefore to avoid.
> 
> they NEED a social media presence that has photos and prices of what they have in stock, not just call the shop option, that is quite off putting, will it mean more work for them absolutely.
> 
> don't stock 100 different corns, yes their the staple but their going to be left with too many especially basic genes, expand garters cali kings, various rats and many other colubrids, small/med boids, DO NOT stock iguanas savs, water monitors babies, very large constrictors, all the throwaway species (especially lizards, wc green anoles i mean c'mon), it gives the impression in 2022 that the shop is stuck in the past, buys the cheapest shit on wholesalers lists and should be avoided. avoid wc specimens of common species that are available as cb.
> 
> small numbers of many species will get you a reputation a 100 corns and sav babies simply wont.
> 
> gumtree and preloved are for buying a sofa not a snake, if you want to risk a bad experience with no comeback to save a few quid, go ahead, but don't bitch about it afterwards.
> 
> if shops are to survive they need to recognise times have changed, they need to be ahead of the curve, not fill their shops with plants and bark with few animals hoping the bioactive craze will keep them afloat, it won't. a random example of a great shop is global geckos, all CB, a great standpoint, excellent shop for lizards but not for snakes.
> 
> if a shop has a website keep it updated, if they have a facebook keep it updated, photos photos sell animals. if they offer the courier option that expands their buyers greatly.
> 
> if shops are to survive they must lead the way on what they want the hobby to be, connect with local hobbyists buy their animals, spread the wealth spread the species, but if ur determined to stay in the past you will close 100% guaranteed.
> 
> rgds
> ed
> ps this relates to my tortoise rant on the smuggling thread, if a shop sells a tort to someone obviously educated in just the basics, ie buying a tort table setup too, they should be *open and honest *about the potential lifespan and the need to take that into account in their purchase. i doubt few will risk that kind of sale by putting doubt into the buyers mind though.


The shop i worked at had an unreal amount of corn snakes every single day, 4 hours a day just cleaning out baby corn snakes and that was just the stuff out back.

I've commented briefly on another post about breeding and I think its great that shops breed their own stock however sometimes they can simply buy them in from a whole saler at such a cheap price they don't need to breed (example being we purchased Chile roses for 5 pound each as adults sold them for 30-35 each). This was ofcourse about just shy of 10 years ago probably all wild caught.

I agree with your point on certian animals to a degree. I'm not saying I never want to see something like an iguana or water monitor in a shop ever again however I want to see them in a well established shop with a good reputation and once in a blue moon. I like to see variety in a shop, I like going into a shop seeing an animal and think "I've never even heard about these let alone seen one". 

I think pricing is a big issue with shops too, again seeing shops selling a normal royal hatchling for 120 and I know private breeders selling them for about 20 perhaps. I totally understand they have more to pay for than a private breeder and shops will never beat a private dealers price now I don't mind spending a little extra in a family run shop but had to justify 6x more compared to a reeder that I trust.


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## Malc

liam peel said:


> I think pricing is a big issue with shops too, again seeing shops selling a normal royal hatchling for 120 and *I know private breeders selling them for about 20 perhaps*. I totally understand they have more to pay for than a private breeder and shops will never beat a private dealers price now I don't mind spending a little extra in a family run shop but had to justify 6x more compared to a reeder that I trust.


The reason for that is private breeders see no value in bog standard normals. They would much rather shift them on than raise them. Each feed, the cost of running the heating, and the time spent maintaining them is just an millstone around the breeders neck. Average RRP for normal royals round here is around £90.00. I guess the retailer has to factor in labour rates, and normal shop overheads into this price and they still need to make a margin / profit at the end of the day.

You think a 6x mark up is bad, you should see what margins my last employer used on garden lighting... a lamp landed for £3 form China would be sold trade at £90 +VAT...


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## colinm

Wasn't it Marc Ormond who was at Paradise Park and the partner of Lez Fuller ?

Not Mr Amey.


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## Malc

colinm said:


> Wasn't it Marc Ormond who was at Paradise Park and the partner of Lez Fuller ?
> 
> Not Mr Amey.


Uhmmm... not 100% sure.. it was like 30 years ago, and I'm sure I've caught Dementia from my late mother  - you might be right, but I've always thought it was Mark Amey


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## johntog

Anyone old enough to remember J G Animals in Streatham Vale, run by John Greatwood? It was my go to place for a cup of coffee and a chat when I first started keeping non native reptiles. Nearly 50 years ago now.


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## arwen_7

I think the main future of reptile shops are the shops who are also dedicated breeders of a varity of animals, and around these, shops smaller reptile shops who do not breed (of are limited in what they breed) become esabilished as well. Shops like Dragon Aquatics and Neon Geko are examples of these I've found. I got our Mex Mex kingsnake from Dragon Aquatics and had a fantastic experience with them. To me they asked me all the right questions regarding my knowledge and set up, but also were happy to talk at length about their animals and care advice. 
Out main reptile shop in Dundee doesn't breed a lot (I don't think) but they do tend to have an ever changing stock of animals, of various species. I do sometimes wonder if they over stock however...


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## colinm

I visited JG Animals forty odd years ago. I saved up my pocket money for some Wall Lizards and travelled the length of the Northern Line to get there. One died the next day and John replaced it.
John is a reptile book seller now, or at least he was before Covid. He lost his wife a few years ago but still looked lithe and healthy when I last saw him ( I guess 2019).
Most of my childhood reptile time was spent at Palmers in mden Town


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## liam peel

I love when shops breed their own stock and I think in theory that should help cut the cost, say we breed a 10k royal thats pure profit compared to buying it at 10k and selling for 15k.
But at the same time breeding say spiders and raising them up to adults will take a huge amount of time and money whereas like I said earlier my old employer could purchase adult Chile roses for a fiver each and sell for 30-35.


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## Jibbajabba

We have a new ish shop locally - small but super good run. Even the vivariums snakes for sales are housed in are bio active - he puts so much effort in the husbandry it is crazy. Good quality food too. So yea sometimes shops are great, but I do prefer the smaller ones like our local ones.


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## NickAB

johntog said:


> Anyone old enough to remember J G Animals in Streatham Vale, run by John Greatwood? It was my go to place for a cup of coffee and a chat when I first started keeping non native reptiles. Nearly 50 years ago now.


I first went to JG Animals in 1972 when I was studying on my zoology degree in central London. It was an amazing place, only small but packed with a great range of well-kept reptiles and amphibians, equipment and books. John was always incredibly helpful and knowledgeable, freely dispensing advice and information to enthusiastic newcomers like me; very happy to talk at length if the shop was quiet. I spent many happy hours there; probably too many there and too few hours studying! I think he still sells books from home and he used to bring books for sale to the combined BHS/Thames and Chiltern Herp Group meetings each autumn. I haven't seen him for a few years now as there hasn't been a joint meeting for a couple of years. Worthwhile looking him up if you want any difficult-to-obtain books.


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