# Where do I get?



## Armageddon (May 13, 2010)

Hey, where can I buy anti-venom for my asian spitting cobra? If I can't get it within a certain time they want to remove my snake until I get more in. 
I live in Scotland, all information is appreciated.

Keith


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Armageddon said:


> Hey, where can I buy anti-venom for my asian spitting cobra? If I can't get it within a certain time they want to remove my snake until I get more in.
> I live in Scotland, all information is appreciated.
> 
> Keith


Another silly post I suspect!

You cannot buy it in the UK, there is no need to buy as part of your DWA (if indeed you have one and this is a genuine post)


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## bloodpython22 (Feb 19, 2010)

Armageddon said:


> Hey, where can I buy anti-venom for my asian spitting cobra? If I can't get it within a certain time they want to remove my snake until I get more in.
> I live in Scotland, all information is appreciated.
> 
> Keith


As slippery said you can not buy it in uk and you said untill I get more in! Were did you get it from before then ?


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## REPTILEDAN88 (Sep 23, 2011)

bloodpython22 said:


> until I get more in











:whistling2:


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## Armageddon (May 13, 2010)

No, I was told I have to source it for use if ever need be. I can see that this forum isn't going to be of any help.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

There maybe some truth in this as the NHS in scotland is run slightly differently and i dunno if they would provide antivenom like they do in england. wouldnt suprise me with all these tory cuts if they said all dwa venomous owners have to source and provide there own antivenine from now on and if they dont they have to give up there animals


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> Another silly post I suspect!
> 
> You cannot buy it in the UK, there is no need to buy as part of your DWA (if indeed you have one and this is a genuine post)


i was under the impressions it could be sourced but not brought directly from the liverpool tropical medicines place (sorry i forget the full name )


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Armageddon said:


> No, I was told I have to source it for use if ever need be. I can see that this forum isn't going to be of any help.


Ok so lets try and put this into perspective.

Antivenin is effectively classed as a prescription only medicine (POM)

There is not a requirement to have it at home, indeed it is possible that even if you turned up at A & E they would not use it!

Do or can you post a copy of where/who told you that you needed it?

If your post is genuine then you need to go back and tell them they are plain wrong


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

ha this is 1 for me lol. I to live in scotland I have 3 cobras 1 which is a spitter I have a rattler to. the closest antivenin to me is liverpool which you should know allready. if you do have this cobra you should have had all this in order first. also should have known that lstm is the closest.


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

ps. where I am in scotland it is a regulation that you have a protocol in order first. which should include antivenin needed and the source and their phone numbers.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

dunny1 said:


> ps. where I am in scotland it is a regulation that you have a protocol in order first. which should include antivenin needed and the source and their phone numbers.


Dunny,

I think that is standard protocol.

I notice some past exchanges between you and the OP.

Does said person actually have any DWA species?

Regards

Graeme


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

really cldnt tell you if he has or not mate soz. where I live though it is standard to have everything in order before you get the snake. this post made me wonder if he had dwa or if its just a wind up.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

dunny1 said:


> really cldnt tell you if he has or not mate soz. where I live though it is standard to have everything in order before you get the snake. this post made me wonder if he had dwa or if its just a wind up.


Another dreamer came to my thoughts!


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

indeed it does mate.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

dunny1 said:


> indeed it does mate.


possibly or he bull :devil:ed the local auth and theyve found out he doesnt own anti venine on an inspection or summint and have given him a choice and a timescale to get it all in order or lose the animal..... personally i think they should of taken the animal there and then and only given it back if it was in order


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

dunny1 said:


> indeed it does mate.


random one i get why u need to provide ur own antivenine for tropicals but if kept our only native dwa would this then then still be needed as id expect most hospitals to stock it ??


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

I reckon hospitals up this way would have adder antivenin. or atleast get it much much easier than cobra antivenin.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

dunny1 said:


> I reckon hospitals up this way would have adder antivenin. or atleast get it much much easier than cobra antivenin.


As far as I am aware all mainland UK A & E hospitals hold Zargreb European Viper antivenin, this covers a number of Vipera species including Vipera berus.

Antivenin for other non European species is held at LSTM or in London.

I am not aware on any Scottish hospitals that hold non European and fron posts from Ireland I am sure non of the Northern or Southern hospital hold any.

That is a major consideration when thinking about getting venomous critters.


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

slippery42 said:


> I am not aware on any Scottish hospitals that hold non European and fron posts from Ireland I am sure non of the Northern or Southern hospital hold any.
> 
> That is a major consideration when thinking about getting venomous critters.


Yeah, as far as i know also the closest source to myself and any other Irish venomous keeper is LSTM, getting venomous in Southern Ireland is a massive risk as it is on our own heads as a bite will cause some desastrious consequences for all reptile keepers, i personally think if someone in here in ROI dies from a venomous snake bite the government will consider banning reptiles altogether, we also have no DWA system in ROI.


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

same in scotland the closest to me is lstm. as for adders I presume that the hospital beside me stocks the antivenin. I dont know for sure though as never been bit by 1.


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm sure op's got a few photos of the animal in question and who he purchased it from. Can be very quickly be verified if he has a DWA or the actual animal. I suspect not, as I can't see why he would be the only DWA keeper I've heard of who needs his own anti-venin supply....

In addition as Graeme pointed out, it is a controlled medication and administration of the anti venin should be done in a medically controlled environment by medical professionals in case of adverse reactions/anaphylaxsis, which can occur in up to 25% of cases. 

Anyone know what the anti-vein costs?

The Clinical Management of Snake Bites in the South East Asian Region - Annex 3 - Antivenoms for treating bites by South East Asian snakes

Also "Asian spitting cobra" is hardly the question of someone who knows what they are talking about, which species?
_Naja philippinensis
Naja samarensis
Naja siamensis
Naja sputatrix
Naja sumatrana_

All are classed as spitters.... :bash:

I remember one of the lecturers from Dundee Uni got bitten by a WDB and had to have the LTSM anti flown up for treatment. Liverpool to Scotland doesn't take long by helicopter. 

HB


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

see i was always under the impression that when u got ur dwa u informed the local auth of what species u kept then the local hospital had a duty of car to stock the antivenine not for any keepers benefit i might add in case it gets out and bites a member of the public. Plus this is one thing that winds me the hell up about berus is the fact that antivene is avalible everywhere especially me being in cornwall i cud even go the vets up the road but yet there on dwa last person to die was donkeys years ago and the spider keepers are allowed to keep far more dangerous species i.e Hahni is it (african sand spider) plus other that do far more damage


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> see i was always under the impression that when u got ur dwa u informed the local auth of what species u kept then the local hospital had a duty of car to stock the antivenine not for any keepers benefit i might add in case it gets out and bites a member of the public. Plus this is one thing that winds me the hell up about berus is the fact that antivene is avalible everywhere especially me being in cornwall i cud even go the vets up the road but yet there on dwa last person to die was donkeys years ago and the spider keepers are allowed to keep far more dangerous species i.e Hahni is it (african sand spider) plus other that do far more damage


I don't think you can even compare any venomous spider to a venomous snake...And why do you always complain about it when you don't even want to keep DWA?


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

at 50%man 50%biscuit what a name lol. anyway does dundee uni have a wdb or was it his own?? in the end I added the op to my ignore list. as it all smells of bulls..t seemingly this spitter will be his first hot. good luck with that buddy


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> I don't think you can even compare any venomous spider to a venomous snake...And why do you always complain about it when you don't even want to keep DWA?


i would happily keep an berus indoors if i didnt need a dwa but all the rigmoral to do it is just a pain in the :censor:. The fact if it got out i could get bit well i could walk down my old dears garden bare foot and get done too just seems really illogical there on the list considering when the treatment being so readily availible. where as those sand spiders have no antivenine and people have died and i imagine theres other spids like it too. plus i dont like lining the councils pocket they do bugger all in cornwall


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> i would happily keep an berus indoors if i didnt need a dwa but all the rigmoral to do it is just a pain in the :censor:. The fact if it got out i could get bit well i could walk down my old dears garden bare foot and get done too just seems really illogical there on the list considering when the treatment being so readily availible. where as those sand spiders have no antivenine and people have died and i imagine theres other spids like it too. plus i dont like lining the councils pocket they do bugger all in cornwall


Lots of people throughout the UK are bitten by berus each year and are treated successfully. They are on the DWA list because they are front fanged viperids. All front fanged viperids are on the list. It's really quite simple. 
Cornwall County Council are very good at administering the license for those who can show competency.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> i would happily keep an berus indoors if i didnt need a dwa but all the rigmoral to do it is just a pain in the :censor:. The fact if it got out i could get bit well i could walk down my old dears garden bare foot and get done too just seems really illogical there on the list considering when the treatment being so readily availible. where as those sand spiders have no antivenine and people have died and i imagine theres other spids like it too. plus i dont like lining the councils pocket they do bugger all in cornwall


So in other words, you can't be arsed to put any effort in to create a safe set up?

It's not really illogical. With the spider you stated apparently there has only been one death. That's besides the point anyway, it's a front fanged venomous snake end of.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

southwest vipers said:


> Lots of people throughout the UK are bitten by berus each year and are treated successfully. They are on the DWA list because they are front fanged viperids. All front fanged viperids are on the list. It's really quite simple.
> Cornwall County Council are very good at administering the license for those who can show competency.


What im getting at though is there clearly not as dangerous as *Sicarius hahni* (i imagine theres also other non DWA spider im not aware of also) so why are they not DWA and an adder that if u get bit even without treatment isnt necissarily fatal u might feel like :censor: for a while but u wont necissarily die. plus treatments avalible everywhere where as the spider most doctors wouldnt have the first clue wat to do.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> So in other words, you can't be arsed to put any effort in to create a safe set up?
> 
> It's not really illogical. With the spider you stated apparently there has only been one death. That's besides the point anyway, it's a front fanged venomous snake end of.


not so much that more the fact yh i cud say go get a licence have a berus in a cabinet in a room all locked away next morning i can wake up leave back door open and find one on the kitchen floor which has happened more than once. or walk down the garden bare foot and tread on one i get why exotics are but not these when there tonnes of worse stuff out there not on the list with no easily accessible treatments


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

mikeyb said:


> What im getting at though is there clearly not as dangerous as *Sicarius hahni* (i imagine theres also other non DWA spider im not aware of also) so why are they not DWA and an adder that if u get bit even without treatment isnt necissarily fatal u might feel like :censor: for a while but u wont necissarily die. plus treatments avalible everywhere where as the spider most doctors wouldnt have the first clue wat to do.


Don't underestimate our little viper. They pack a punch, from memory they have twice the mg/Kg strength of a King Cobra, but have a low yield.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

mikeyb said:


> i would happily keep an berus indoors if i didnt need a dwa but all the rigmoral to do it is just a pain in the :censor:. The fact if it got out i could get bit well i could walk down my old dears garden bare foot and get done too just seems really illogical there on the list considering when the treatment being so readily availible. where as those sand spiders have no antivenine and people have died and i imagine theres other spids like it too. plus i dont like lining the councils pocket they do bugger all in cornwall


Are you viperlover in disguise?


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## PESKY (May 25, 2010)

GT2540 said:


> Don't underestimate our little viper. They pack a punch, from memory they have twice the mg/Kg strength of a King Cobra, but have a low yield.


 
exactly

captive bred or long term captive vipera berus have been proven to be able to administor more than the 30 mg needed to kill you. Luke yeamons at the KCS did a few tests after receiving a bad bite from berus.

It showed they had 40mg as they had stopped using their venom for f/t mice and so had built up a lot more than a wild berus


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