# Urgent identification and help needed



## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

I have just found this little fella in the garden any ideas what it is? and what to do?

I live in Eastern Europe. Sorry for the photos my camera is rubbish!!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Maybe a dormouse? 

Pop down to your local supermarket and pick up some condensed milk, live yogurt, and a bit of honey. This is how I reared two wild rats last year.... Boil some water and while that's cooking, mix a teaspoon each of the condensed milk and live yogurt, then a bit of honey to sweeten. Dilute with the boiled water. Check the temp and feed that with a syringe if you've got one, or use a small paint brush.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*Myoxus glis Linnaeus - Fat Dormouse, Edible Dormouse *








Object map

*Synonym. *

Glis glis L.*Systematic position.*

Class Mammalia, order Rodentia, family Myoxidae, genus Myoxus. There is only 1 species (2 n = 62) in the territory of the former USSR with 3-4 subspecies of 9 known for the genus as a whole. *Biological group.*

Pest of fruit crops.*Morphology and biology.*

This species is the largest representative of the dormice family. The body length amounts to 130-180 mm; tail 110-154 mm; ear 16-26 mm; back foot 23-30 mm; weight varies in the limits of 70-189 g. Auricles are rather short, with rounded tips and covered with thick hairs. Vibrissae of moustaches are grouped in bunches with a length reaching 60 mm. The bunches and moustaches move independently of each other. The fur is magnificent; tail is covered with rather long hairs lying along both sides of the tail. The coloring of back is smoky-gray or grayish-brown, lower part of body is white or light gray; belly and breast are white. There is usually a dark ring around each eye. Sexual dimorphism is not expressed in either the size or the coloring. The subspecies differ a little in size, the length of tail, and the coloring of fur. The sex ratio in a population changes by years; number of males is usually larger than that of females. Sexual cycle in females occurs once for the active period with only one litter; 50-60% of adult females usually participate in reproduction. Pregnancy lasts 25 days; amount of young dormice varies from 1 to 10, averaging 5 or 6. They begin to see clearly in 18-21 days and at 25 days the try to start independent feeding; young, fat dormice leave their nest in one and a half months and the migration period begins. First time animals of a litter move jointly, sometimes traveling together for wintering. Sexual maturity of fat dormice comes the next year and reproduction begins only in the second or even third year of life. The age limit for this dormice species is 4.5 years. Males mark the borders of individual plots, participating in training young animals. Families winter by groups in the same nest.*Distribution.*

The Fat Dormouse inhabits southern, central and eastern Europe including Sicily and Crete islands in the Mediterranean Sea, also Iran and Turkmenistan. In the territory of the former USSR this species is distributed rather sporadically in the middle strip of the European part of Russia, in the Caucasus, southern and western Transcaucasia, Carpathians, Transcarpathian territory.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*Hand*-*rearing* Dormice (Techniques)
See: *Hand*-*rearing* of Orphaned Wildlife for further general information. *....* 
Myoxus *glis* - Fat dormouse is listed on Schedule 9 of the Wildlife and *...*
wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00Man/MammalHusbandryTechniques/UKMHusbIndTech/HR_M_Dormice.htm - 26k


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Go me!!


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I bet you could rear it to.Isn't it cute.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It's developed enough that I think it's VERY doable!! About the same age as the rats I got in last year.


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Thanks Amalthea and sarahc for the info.

Have attached another couple of photos of the little fella..........he is feeding well at the moment.

Malcolm


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

It looks rather big to be a baby dormouse, I was thinking grey squirrel

A dormouse is only this big when adult
The Hazel Dormouse or Common Dormouse (Muscardinus avellanarius) is a small mammal and the only living species in the genus Muscardinus. It is 6 to 9 centimetres (2.4 to 3.5 in) long with a tail of 5.7 to 7.5 centimetres (2.2 to 3.0 in). It weighs 17 to 20 grams (0.60 to 0.71 oz), although this increases to 30 to 40 grams (1.1 to 1.4 oz) just before hibernation. The Hazel Dormouse hibernates from October to April-May.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

good luck,all I ever find are down on their luck pigeon chicks,not quite the same appeal.


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## Adams Corns (Aug 5, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> It looks rather big to be a baby dormouse, I was thinking grey squirrel


 
i agree he is a bit big


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> It looks rather big to be a baby dormouse, I was thinking grey squirrel


 
Glis glis are quite big critters :flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Glis glis are quite big critters :flrt:


 

Ive only just noticed the op lives in Eastern europe:lol2:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I thought the tail didn't look quite right for a squirrel and edible doormice are big.I guess if it survives then we'll find out.A juvenile grey squirrel


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Have found a website in german Was tun mit gefundenen Bilchen? (but you can babel fish it) regarding hand rearing Glis Glis............my fella is 17gms, 7.5cms body and 4.5cms tail so according to the chart I would say its about 20 days old :flrt:

Yes I live in Slovakia............sorry for any confusion caused...:lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

vintageprints45 said:


> Have found a website in german Was tun mit gefundenen Bilchen? (but you can babel fish it) regarding hand rearing Glis Glis............my fella is 17gms, 7.5cms body and 4.5cms tail so according to the chart I would say its about 20 days old :flrt:
> 
> Yes I live in Slovakia............sorry for any confusion caused...:lol2:


 
:lol2: Thats what confused me as there is only one area in the uk that have glis glis.
Good luck and dont forget to keep us updated


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

He's a gorgeous little critter - I'm quite jealous of you having the opportunity - I'd have loved to have hand reared him/her!

Good luck.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

feorag said:


> He's a gorgeous little critter - I'm quite jealous of you having the opportunity - I'd have loved to have hand reared him/her!
> 
> Good luck.


 
Me too, if I'm honest :blush:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

We're just obsessive "little critter rearers" aren't we? :lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Obsessive masochists is more like it, I think!! :lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:lol2: Could be right there! :whistling2:


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Latest update:

After feeding the little fella this morning went out in the garden and found another one just 3 feet or so from where the other one was yesterday.........think they are falling out of the nest in the trees above, I live on the edge of the national forest in Slovakia, although I cannot see the nest even with binoculars. He/she was more bedraggled than the first one when I found him but has perked up now and is feeding as well as his brother/sister now :flrt:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Awwwww!!! It's so much nicer rearing two than one, cuz they have eachother when you're not with them.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:gasp: OMG, I'm even more jealous now!!! :flrt:

And it's much better that you do have two, because they will learn from each other and hopefully imprint slightly less on you!

Are you able to get the food for them without any problems out there??


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Awwwww!!! It's so much nicer rearing two than one, cuz they have eachother when you're not with them.


:lol2:Great minds think alike - you and I were nearly typing the same message at the same time - 'cept mine was longer - no change there then! :lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*lol* Indeedy!! I beatcha, though


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

oooh,aaah.I know it will be hard work but they are so plush.


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> :gasp: OMG, I'm even more jealous now!!! :flrt:
> 
> And it's much better that you do have two, because they will learn from each other and hopefully imprint slightly less on you!
> 
> Are you able to get the food for them without any problems out there??


Yes they are so cute the first one wrapped himself around the second one when I put him in to warm him up :lol2:

The condensed milk, live yoghurt and honey were no problem thanks, but finding a syringe has been another matter, although they are taking feed from the end of a paint brush no problem.

Any ideas on what and when to try feeding them other foods?


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

When they start "toddling" make sure there are other foods for them to mouth. Probably a seed-based mixture would be best. Also human baby foods are good to help weaning


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Jen, I'm no expert on wee critters, but is condensed milk not a bit too sugary for them? I've always used evaporated milk if I couldn't get goats milk. 

If you can buy Farley's Rusks over there, they're a great weaning food, because you can just mix a wee bit into the milk you are feeding and gradually get them lapping. Also I always add a pro-biotic natural yoghurt to assist with the gut flora - a teaspoon to a quarter pint of milk is the proportion.

What's the postage like from England to you, because I'd happily send you a couple of 1ml syringes and teats to help you out if you can't get them there? And as Jen says, Heinz baby foods if you can get them?

I would avoid peanuts and sunflower seeds when you come to wean, because of the high fat content and the fact that they are very tasty and there's a risk that they might prefer them over other foods, giving them an unblanced diet.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I always used condensed milk *shrugs* Don't know now *blush*


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm not saying you're wrong, but my instant gut reaction was 'too sugary'!! 

As I recall condensed milk is very sweet and rich and even crystallises if left long enough - that amount of sugar would worry me. From a richness point of view I'd rather use a full fat goats milk, or evaporated milk diluted 1:1 and add a couple of tablespoons of double cream to 'rich it up'.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You may very well be right.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Now you are just being greedy *mutters, its not fair

For tiny wee critters I always use Esbilac but its not easy to come by and its very expensive. Baby rice is good to add to the milk at the start of weaning but I dont know if they sell it in your area


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I've tried a few different milk substitutes, but they always seem to turn their nose up (and I don't blame them going by the smell *lol*)


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> Jen, I'm no expert on wee critters, but is condensed milk not a bit too sugary for them? I've always used evaporated milk if I couldn't get goats milk.
> 
> What's the postage like from England to you, because I'd happily send you a couple of 1ml syringes and teats to help you out if you can't get them there? And as Jen says, Heinz baby foods if you can get them?


Will try and get goats milk tomorrow, have not seen evaporated milk for sale here was hard enough asking for and finding condensed :lol2:

Thanks for the offer but post usually takes 10 days or so to get here, am going in to town tomorrow to see if I can get some syringes there..........I think the local chemist thought I was a drug addict or something when I asked for syringes so got out of there before the Polizia turned up :gasp: Although with my command of the Slovakian language god knows what I may have actually asked for...........:blush:

Have got some jars of baby food in, not heinz but the local kids seem to survive on it..........:whistling2: and some seed mix so fingers crossed


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You SHOULD be able to get insulin syringes relatively easily...... Just pop the end off for feeding baby critters


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

vintageprints45 said:


> Thanks for the offer but post usually takes 10 days or so to get here,


I kinda figured that might be the case, but it was worth asking.

Hope you manage to get some!


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## Adams Corns (Aug 5, 2010)

im no expert but they look like baby possoms , if you havea look on google you may agree :2thumb:, if this is true you could have a dead mother near where you found them


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

The OP is in Slovakia... I don't think there are any wild possums in Eastern Europe.


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

A week later the little ones are doing just fine............eating well and becoming very active.............:flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Thats great news, well done:no1: They are really cute arent they:flrt:


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Omg I've only just seen this thread and just squeeled when I got to the last lot of pictures. How flipping cute are they :flrt: My other half already knows I'm a nutter so I just got '*sigh* what baby animal are you torturing yourself with now':blush:


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## ditzychick (Aug 21, 2009)

Esarosa said:


> Omg I've only just seen this thread and just squeeled when I got to the last lot of pictures. How flipping cute are they :flrt: My other half already knows I'm a nutter so I just got '*sigh* what baby animal are you torturing yourself with now':blush:


 
Lmbao, thought that was just me and my hubby :whistling2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:lol2: at you Katie! 

They're coming on great - I am still so very jealous!!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Totally jealous!! They are gorgeous!! Have ya sexed 'em yet?


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

They are gorgeous! Anyone got any ideas of what they are yet? xx


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

They are adorable.

Dont know if this is of some help:

List of mammals of Slovakia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

bampoisongirl said:


> They are gorgeous! Anyone got any ideas of what they are yet? xx


 

Yes, these
:flrt:

*Myoxus glis Linnaeus - Fat Dormouse, Edible Dormouse *


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

This is what an adult looks like............


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Now they are super cute!!!!

Hard to believe that the Romans used to have them in big storage jars, fattening them up to eat them. They really are extra specially cute.


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

They are still considered a delicacy in Slovenia where they trap them for food and fur!!!.............:devil:


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## Stacey010884 (Mar 7, 2009)

Awww! I remember seeing photos of glis glis years ago and thinking "I want!". haha. Beautiful animals and you are doing so well with your pair! They're growing well and seem like little angels! Soon they'll be flying. *imagines them jumping on you when you open the cage* Cuuuuute!


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

A friend popped around this afternoon and got a nice photo of the 'terrible twins'...........:lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

D'awwwwwwwwwwww!!! I'm in LURVE!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

So am I! :flrt:

And I'm still dead jealous! :bash:


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Amalthea said:


> Totally jealous!! They are gorgeous!! Have ya sexed 'em yet?


Yes I have sexed them and they are a male and female :2thumb:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Shame they're not the same sex... Coulda kept them together. I had the exact same problem when I handreared the two baby rats last year. 

Any new pics??


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Amalthea said:


> Any new pics??


Latest couple of photos


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*melts* They are SOOOOOOO cute!


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## soupdragon10 (Jul 27, 2008)

Just come across this thread. Those have got to be some of the cutest baby animals ..............:flrt:

So glad they are doing well.


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## madsmum (Jan 24, 2009)

what the plan for their future? can you release them?


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

awww they are so cute good luck with them 
ann xxx


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## blade100 (Sep 26, 2009)

madsmum said:


> what the plan for their future? can you release them?


i should imagine that they'd be too tame to be released now?

i love them:flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Not at all! If you do what is known as a "soft release" it can be very successful, even for the tamest of wildlife, because they can revert back 
to the wild very quickly. 

3 years ago I handreared 2 red squirrels who lived in my house and garden for 5 months and were totally tame, jumped
all over my cats and 'ate' my house! :lol2: 
Because they were July kittens and hadn't had a chance to store their winter larder we decided to release them the following year, so we 
found a garden in a red squirrel area where the owners would let us erect a pen,as we obviously needed to get them away from us.

We built a pen and kept away for over a month, then went up to take a further supply of food and clean up the pen a bit. 
The squirrels came straight to us, although they always ran and hid when the garden owners came out to feed them. They never forgot us.

They were released the following May successfully and continued to return for the rest of that year and the following.

From this:










To this:










And this:










And plaguing my cats










To release day - one out and one to go!










I also handreared a stoat last year and she successfully released from a soft release pen.


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## blade100 (Sep 26, 2009)

awwwwwwwwwww how gorgeous were they!:flrt:
i bet u got quite emotional when that time came to let them go.i know i would've done.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Absolutely. I would be lying if I didn't admit to wanting to keep them forever, they were such a joy to have around and so very entertaining. I got nothing much done over the period of time I had them because they were so time consuming and I uploaded loads of videos on You Tube of their progress. If you type "hand reared red squirrels" into the search box you'll find them.

However, they were after all wild animals and I just felt it was right that they live the life they were intended to live. It was a very bittersweet day the day we released them though!

Similarly with Little Miss Stoaty, who had her own fan club on here http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/other-pets-exotics/300616-my-latest-orphans-stoats.html She was incredibly tame and again a delight to rear and I was very tempted to keep her too, but she was released.


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## Requiem (Mar 22, 2010)

Oh god, the baby dormice and the baby red squirrels... you guys turn me into a gibbering, squealing wreck.

I'm not sure if I'd have the willpower to release them after hand-rearing them, even though it's the right thing to do.


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Thought I should post a few photos to show how they are doing


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Wow!!!! They've got a great enclosure! Lovely little critters! Still totally jealous


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You've done an excellent job with them! Haven't they grown! :gasp:

That's a superb enclosure, I'm very jealous now of you having that, as well as getting the chance to handrear them.

Well done you!!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

That enclosure is amazing:2thumb: You have done a great job rearing them and they look fantastic:flrt:


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

This is the latest photos for anyone interested


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

So chubby and adorable! You've done fantastically and should be very proud of yourself!


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## quizicalkat (Jul 7, 2007)

wow - what a great thread :gasp:

I am sooo jealous - well done!


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## vintageprints45 (May 13, 2010)

Amalthea said:


> So chubby and adorable! You've done fantastically and should be very proud of yourself!


Thanks to you and Feorag for the advice you gave me when I needed it!!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*blush* You did the hard work


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## Reptilequeen (May 23, 2010)

Amalthea said:


> Maybe a dormouse?
> 
> Pop down to your local supermarket and pick up some condensed milk, live yogurt, and a bit of honey. This is how I reared two wild rats last year.... Boil some water and while that's cooking, mix a teaspoon each of the condensed milk and live yogurt, then a bit of honey to sweeten. Dilute with the boiled water. Check the temp and feed that with a syringe if you've got one, or use a small paint brush.


I just had to say Love your pic The Last Unicorn I love that film even though I am now ahemmmm 32 lol


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Tis my favorite movie  And I'm 27  Got a tattoo of the Unicorn on my ankle, as well


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

they look like giant afrian pygmy doormice!!! very cool!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Well, they are dormice  Just the "edible" kind.... Glis glis.


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