# Purple kale for bearded dragons



## bdargon (May 1, 2010)

I have some curly kale with a purple stem and purple tinges to the leaves. Is this variety ok to give bearded dragons?


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

bdargon said:


> I have some curly kale with a purple stem and purple tinges to the leaves. Is this variety ok to give bearded dragons?


there's hundreds of different greens , veg and fruit out there to feed your dragon

why feed kale???

its a calcium binder
not as bad as spinach but a binder just the same


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## bdargon (May 1, 2010)

woodrott said:


> why feed kale???


Because my grandma's friend grows loads of this particular variety of kale and I wanted to know if it's ok for bearded dragons like the normal green curly kale. Plus it's free! And he's very fussy.

I currently feed him 

carrots 
parsnip
Butternut squash
Kale (If the supermarket sells any)
Red pepper.


What other easily accessable veg can I give him?


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## KerryLou (Aug 19, 2009)

woodrott said:


> there's hundreds of different greens , veg and fruit out there to feed your dragon
> 
> why feed kale???
> 
> ...


I feed kale to mine, its one of the few greens they will eat.

I got most of my info from the food chart in the stickys in the newbie section, and it says on there that it is fine to feed kale occassionally. If this isn't the case I'd like to know, I don't want to cause any harm to my boys : victory:


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/newbie-advice/3-bearded-dragons-food-chart.html#post3


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

KerryLou said:


> I feed kale to mine, its one of the few greens they will eat.
> 
> I got most of my info from the food chart in the stickys in the newbie section, and it says on there that it is fine to feed kale occassionally. If this isn't the case I'd like to know, I don't want to cause any harm to my boys : victory:
> 
> ...


 
occasionally ???

what dose this mean????

i would say once a month at max

my self i think Ive used it once

my Mrs fed it to my dragons when i was away for a few days

needless to say shit hit fan 

I'm not a lover of kale when there's so many other greens


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

bdargon said:


> Because my grandma's friend grows loads of this particular variety of kale and I wanted to know if it's ok for bearded dragons like the normal green curly kale. Plus it's free! And he's very fussy.
> 
> I currently feed him
> 
> ...


 
here's a few you can get from any where

water cress
salad cress

rocket
endive
spring greens


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## Dingle87 (Apr 18, 2009)

one of my dragons only eats kale aswell as the odd lambs lettuce has done for 2 years. on near enough a daily basis, hasnt done him any harm.


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## Feadern (Sep 15, 2010)

woodrott said:


> here's a few you can get from any where
> 
> water cress
> salad cress
> ...


This list is good, especially spring greens...

I usually give mine a mix of Spring Greens, Rocket and Dandelion Greens. Works very well and apparently very good for them!


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Dingle87 said:


> one of my dragons only eats kale aswell as the odd lambs lettuce has done for 2 years. on near enough a daily basis, hasnt done him any harm.


the only way you can tell if its doing harm in through a blood test

have you had one ?????

i had this with a breeder who said Ive never had a blood test done my dragons are fine Ive never had to go to the vets

after the blood test came back she had a 1 to 1 ratio

with this 1 to 1 ratio the dragons showed no ill effects

but its not good

also after a poo test she had every parasite and bacterial growth poss

again with no visual effect

what I'm trying to say is just because your dragon looks fine
with out the tests you cannot say there fine


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## Dingle87 (Apr 18, 2009)

Yes blood test 3 months ago. 
Dont ask what the ratio was, i cant remember, i had all 4 dragons done.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

woodrott said:


> here's a few you can get from any where
> 
> water cress
> salad cress
> ...


You say kale is bad because it binds calcium. Is that because it is from the cabbage family ? What evidence do you have that Kale is especially bad ? 

I like to feed a variety of greens to my dragons. I add more variety by using more non cabbage family greens like clover and dandelion.

4 out of the 5 you recommend are cabbage family !

The funniest thing is that the spring greens you recommend are in fact the same species of plant as kale- both are _Brassica oleracea. _Kale and spring greens are just different varieties of the the same plant. 

I wouldn't recommend using kale everyday but I would recommend it as part of a variety of green leaves for dragons.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Dingle87 said:


> Yes blood test 3 months ago.
> Dont ask what the ratio was, i cant remember, i had all 4 dragons done.


 
you must keep your tests

also as a ref point for the future

if you had 4 done then that was £280 with now no referral point

how will you know if what you are doing is better or worse for your dragons

if you need to feed more calcium,protean ,fat or so on [ or less ??? ]


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

woodrott said:


> the only way you can tell if its doing harm in through a blood test
> 
> have you had one ?????
> 
> ...


What ratio are you talking about ?


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

I didnt know this about kale I use it occasionally with the locusts they do get a variety btw but will cut it out if it binds. Its news to me id never heard it before


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> You say kale is bad because it binds calcium. Is that because it is from the cabbage family ? What evidence do you have that Kale is especially bad ?
> 
> I like to feed a variety of greens to my dragons. I add more variety by using more non cabbage family greens like clover and dandelion.
> 
> ...


all of the cabbage family will in some way bind calcium

some hardly any some a lot more
kale being one of the worse

this is why on most lists that give you a break down of whats in the plants

it says occasionally

all I'm saying is there's a lot better food out there than kale

its best to feed low or none binding veg

most people don't even test for the 2 to 1 ratio

so helping people to feed better veg,,,, has to be beneficial to there dragons
do you not think?????

i use a saying that Andy at glasgow geckos used ,,,and he hates me repeating it

most people cannot feed themselves wright never mind there reptiles


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> I didnt know this about kale I use it occasionally with the locusts they do get a variety btw but will cut it out if it binds. Its news to me id never heard it before


neither did i !! but i dont ask on here any more tbh..when people ask a simple question and are made to feel foolish...


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## KerryLou (Aug 19, 2009)

woodrott said:


> occasionally ???
> 
> what dose this mean????
> 
> ...


Occasionally is just that for me, a may buy a bag every 3mth or less, but they always seem to eat it quite eagerly. They usually get either spring greens (I buy these for our Sunday dinner and as there is only 2 of us, the dragons get the rest) or a mixed salad bag (obv without iceberg lettuce)


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> I didnt know this about kale I use it occasionally with the locusts they do get a variety btw but will cut it out if it binds. Its news to me id never heard it before


 
kale is a calcium binder as a lot of greens are this is why food charts recommend feed only occasionally

its not as bad as spinach or as good as greens

I'm just saying there's better veg out there


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> What ratio are you talking about ?


we are talking about calcium


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

jillygirl said:


> neither did i !! but i dont ask on here any more tbh..when people ask a simple question and are made to feel foolish...


Why? You feelish foolish about learning something new is the foolish thing. If I learn something that benefits my guys then I don't care how it makes me look rather be a fool than mistreat my beasts


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> Why? You feelish foolish about learning something new is the foolish thing. If I learn something that benefits my guys then I don't care how it makes me look rather be a fool than mistreat my beasts


well said


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

woodrott said:


> kale is a calcium binder as a lot of greens are this is why food charts recommend feed only occasionally
> 
> its not as bad as spinach or as good as greens
> 
> I'm just saying there's better veg out there


Well my locusts get spring greens, rocket salad, dandelions, herb salad, the odd herbs tht I cut off my home grown plants some kale which ill cut out occasional potatoe Peelings and carrots peelings. Beardie gets herb salad rocket salad he won't eat a lot else


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> Well my locusts get spring greens, rocket salad, dandelions, herb salad, the odd herbs tht I cut off my home grown plants some kale which ill cut out occasional potatoe Peelings and carrots peelings. Beardie gets herb salad rocket salad he won't eat a lot else


 
a lot of people don't know what is in there veg

food charts can be an enlightening read if your a weirdooooooo like me

try reading a bout potatoes this will get you thinking????


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> Well my locusts get spring greens, rocket salad, dandelions, herb salad, the odd herbs tht I cut off my home grown plants some kale which ill cut out occasional potatoe Peelings and carrots peelings. Beardie gets herb salad rocket salad he won't eat a lot else


i mite be wrong but all the rocket salad Ive seen has spinach in it ????????


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

woodrott said:


> well said


Oh im all for learning........its just as a newbie i was on occasions put off asking after reading some replies...i suppose we all have to start off somewhere...
but thanks for the advice


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

woodrott said:


> i mite be wrong but all the rocket salad Ive seen has spinach in it ????????


no.. i get it with just rocket.. but ive seen it mixed with watercress and spinach... i get mine from asda.. its bout 80p a bag....


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## Jenni_Loves_Lizards (Jul 16, 2010)

What's the best veg to feed a beardie then? I put kale in my little man's viv but he never touches it and he's over a year old. Was gonna try something different anyway as to prove he isn't fussed on it, he pooped in it today :lol2:


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

jillygirl said:


> no.. i get it with just rocket.. but ive seen it mixed with watercress and spinach... i get mine from asda.. its bout 80p a bag....


yes i get mine from there

there's one that says rocket

and one that says rocket salad

its the one that says rocket salad that has spinach in it

Steve said rocket salad


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

Jenni_Loves_Lizards said:


> What's the best veg to feed a beardie then? I put kale in my little man's viv but he never touches it and he's over a year old. Was gonna try something different anyway as to prove he isn't fussed on it, he pooped in it today :lol2:


well my boy is faddy..i give him mainly..rocket/watercress/dandelion leaves/ lambs lettuce/and he like the italian mixed salad from asda..ive tried him with spring greens and butternut squash...ive offered him kale before as well and he didnt touch it..but as you see from posts kale is a no no ... avoid iceburg lettuce though.. just shows you what he thinks of the kale if he pooped in it lol...


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

woodrott said:


> yes i get mine from there
> 
> there's one that says rocket
> 
> ...


yes that will be right then...rocket salad..its more expensive too..


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Jenni_Loves_Lizards said:


> What's the best veg to feed a beardie then? I put kale in my little man's viv but he never touches it and he's over a year old. Was gonna try something different anyway as to prove he isn't fussed on it, he pooped in it today :lol2:


 
good veg for a dragon

spring greens
french beans
mange two,,[peas in a pod]
blue berries
rocket
water cress
salad cress
butternut squash
endive
dandelions
turnip greens

these are just a few to try


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## jillygirl (Feb 1, 2010)

woodrott said:


> good veg for a dragon
> 
> spring greens
> french beans
> ...


hows the best way to serve the butternut squash..i grated it raw and he wouldnt touch it...might try him with some french beans though


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

woodrott said:


> i mite be wrong but all the rocket salad Ive seen has spinach in it ????????


No I'm very carefull to make sure it hasn't. Some do but the sainsburys one hasnt


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

jillygirl said:


> hows the best way to serve the butternut squash..i grated it raw and he wouldnt touch it...might try him with some french beans though


 
grated is fine

some will eat it some wont

try french beans or peas in a pod

the best is blue berries i think


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

SteveCourty said:


> No I'm very carefull to make sure it hasn't. Some do but the sainsburys one hasnt


 
you must try to check the mixed bags of salad out

Ive found spinach in a lot of them


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## Jenni_Loves_Lizards (Jul 16, 2010)

woodrott said:


> grated is fine
> 
> some will eat it some wont
> 
> ...


I take it you need to chop them really small? Do you need to skin the blueberries/butternut squash first too? Thanks


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

woodrott said:


> *all of the cabbage family will in some way bind calcium*
> 
> some hardly any some a lot more
> kale being one of the worse
> ...


So why do you recommend 5 plants, 4 of which are cabbage family ? Why are you recommending the same species of plant that you say is so dangerous ?


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

woodrott said:


> grated is fine
> 
> some will eat it some wont
> 
> ...


French beans are good for beardies ? See this extract from the tortoise trust website. I have put in bold the bit about peas and beans. 

 Unfortunately, it is all-too-common to see totally inappropriate and dangerous advice on feeding these species. This example is from a veterinary website:
_*“Tortoises (Testudo sp) eat a wide variety of plants including vegetables, fruits, grasses and flowers : alfalfa leaves, apples, banana, beans (runner and french), bean sprouts, bindweed, blackberries, broccoli, Brussel sprouts, buttercup, cabbage, carrot, cauliflower, chickweed, clover, courgettes, cucumber, dandelion, grass, hawkweed, lettuce, melon, nectarines, parsnips, peaches, pears, peas, plums, raspberries, strawberries, tomatoes, watercress. They can also be given hard boiled eggs or a spoon of canned pet food once a week.*”_​This is a truly *appalling *diet for Mediterranean tortoises. It is heavily biased towards root vegetables and fruit (both of which cause major gastric disturbance in these species), *it includes peas and beans which are far too high in protein, have a terrible calcium to phosphorous ratio and are rich in calcium inhibiting compounds.* It also includes cabbage family leaves to excess, and finishes up with meat and boiled eggs, neither of which I have seen lying around in any Mediterranean tortoise habitat I have yet visited…


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> So why do you recommend 5 plants, 4 of which are cabbage family ? Why are you recommending the same species of plant that you say is so dangerous ?


 
i think you are misinterpreting what I'm trying to say

i never mentioned dangerous?????

what I'm saying is some greens [veg] is better than others


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Blaptica said:


> French beans are good for beardies ? See this extract from the tortoise trust website. I have put in bold the bit about peas and beans.
> 
> Unfortunately, it is all-too-common to see totally inappropriate and dangerous advice on feeding these species. This example is from a veterinary website:
> _*“Tortoises (Testudo sp) eat a wide variety of plants including vegetables, fruits, grasses and flowers : alfalfa leaves, apples, banana, beans (runner and french), bean sprouts, bindweed, blackberries, broccoli, Brussel sprouts, buttercup, cabbage, carrot, cauliflower, chickweed, clover, courgettes, cucumber, dandelion, grass, hawkweed, lettuce, melon, nectarines, parsnips, peaches, pears, peas, plums, raspberries, strawberries, tomatoes, watercress. They can also be given hard boiled eggs or a spoon of canned pet food once a week.*”_​This is a truly *appalling *diet for Mediterranean tortoises. It is heavily biased towards root vegetables and fruit (both of which cause major gastric disturbance in these species), *it includes peas and beans which are far too high in protein, have a terrible calcium to phosphorous ratio and are rich in calcium inhibiting compounds.* It also includes cabbage family leaves to excess, and finishes up with meat and boiled eggs, neither of which I have seen lying around in any Mediterranean tortoise habitat I have yet visited…


i will agree with you there are very few veg available to us in the UK that are perfect for our reptiles
but all so theres is not one veg that has every thing in it a reptile needs
this is why we have to try and balance out what we have readily available, its not a perfect world i wish it was

understanding what is in your veg and live food for that matter gives you a better understanding when putting together a feeding regime

OK now beans and peas
understanding what is in them helps you to feed them at the right time
now lets say a breeding female,witch will need a higher fat , water and protean intake
this is an ideal time to feed beans and peas in the pod with lets say morio worms, wax worms and silk worms
upping the intake of the food groups needed to produce eggs
not forgetting a good calcium,vitamin supplement with a good heat and UV source

all so to help determine what your feeding is doing its job a blood test is a good thing. this will give you a good idea if what your feeding is achieving
the desired effects

at the end of the day its a balancing act trying to achieve a perfect diet
with imperfect food groups that are readily available

my opinion is try and feed a well balanced diet if you can get your reptile to eat it.try not to feed the same veg all the time

all reptile keepers have there own way of doing this and veg thay recommend and veg they don't. you have to make an educated guess
on what you feed and then have a blood test to see how close you are

all foods Ive recommended work for me, my dragons blood tests come back with in acceptable levels


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