# Beginner bird of prey ?



## Cookaaaaay

Hello,

Sorry if there is already a thread on this.

My school hired someone (I think he was Ben G Potter) to come in to our school for a day to show his birds. He had Vultures, Eagles, one owl and this other bird I can't remember it was something like Kinka...

Well at first I thought it was quite scary when they swooped over our heads but I got used to it and it kind of inspired me.

I would love to own a bird of prey in the future or maybe even now but even if I am not allowed one I would still like advice for the future.


I would like one that is good for a beginner.
One that can be tamed.
One that doesn't get too big.

By the way, I'm 13 years old.
Thanks.


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## trw

Harris hawks are best begginer bird of prey. They are social in the wild, and will become quite tame. If u plan to hunt with it then they can be trained to hunt with dogs and ferrets too.


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## Cookaaaaay

Thanks. I will have a look at them now.


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## LoveForLizards

Get a mentor, grab some good books (Falconry: Art and practice by Emma ford and any [updated] Phillip Glasier books are worth their weight in gold) and read, read, read THEN decide what you want. I don't consider Harris Hawks to be good beginner hawks. They are too easy as far as weight management, taming, training and learning goes. IMO Red Tailed hawks are the way to go if you want a broad wing, or Indian Eagle Owls and Turkmenian Eagle Owls if you want an owl. All will teach you a lot and unlike the Harris does not forgive as easy so you will also learn not to make stupid and obvious mistakes (ie. taking away food with a good trade off or stealing!). They are much more precise as far as weight management goes and once manned _properly_ is the perfect falconry bird. If you don't plan to hunt, get an owl.
Get your flying land BEFORE the bird, make sure there is plenty of quarry, if you are to be hunting rabbits get a couple of ferrets, if you want to hunt a Red on feather (phesant, morehen, partridge etc) then get a dog a couple of years (yes, a couple of years, if you are even considering a hawk you should spend at least 2 years with a seasoned falconer with the bird of your choice and get plenty of hands-on experience) before the bird to make sure s/he is ready, steady, properly muscled and trained ready for to work under the bird. If you do lean more towards a harris then get "The complete Rabbit and Hare hawk" by Martin Hollinshead, if you go for a red then lean towards Phillip Glasier, Emma Ford, William Oakes etc, if an owl then most of Jemima Parry Jones' books are unbeatable (namely Understanding Owls). 

As you are 13 I am guessing you are still in school, remember a hawk needs hunting in the winter (you shouldn't hunt throughout the summer, and your bird will be moulting from [roughly] march-september anyway) 2-3 times a week MINIMUM and flown at the very least every other day, will you be able to take the hawk out for 3/4 minimum flying time before it gets dark? and will you be willing to spend most of your free time preparing food, cleaning, manning and flying? Happy to dispatch anything the bird catches? handling raw meat/rodents daily?. You will also be spending most of your day (5-7 hours) manning for the first month of getting the hawk, so take that into account. 
The minimum size of aviary is 6x6x6 for a Harris, excluding the double door and weighing room, can you accomadate that?. 8x8x6 is minimum for a red, but you also get [IMO] much more back. 
To give you an idea of price to get started up:

Glove - £25-30
Bag/Vest - £25-50
Mews - £100-400 (250 being about average for a well built, secure mews)
Scales - £10
Books/DVDs - £50
Bow perch - £70
Leather - £20
Leather knives - £8
Leather hole punch - £14
Casting jacket - £10
Coping tools - £20
Leather grease (Don't grease flyers and ben long or resolene is better then KCL) - £8/Pot
Travel box - £30
Creance - £10
Astroturf - £13
Leashes x2 - £2
Swivels x2 - £15
Bells x3 - £15-23
Eyelets + pliers (you can make the pliers for cheaper, though :whistling2 - £30

Oh and something we stupidly missed this winter...hand warmers. the gel ones are best. Less fun then having your hands in your trousers but stops you going blind. :whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:

Need anything, I'm always available [email protected]


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## Cookaaaaay

Wow, thank you very much, very helpful. 

I see having a BoP doesn't come cheap  (Equipment wise)

Well thanks again.


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## LoveForLizards

Nope...
You also have the money for a falconry dog/pair of ferrets, their equipment and the bird also. :lol2:

Still want one? :whistling2:


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## Scoffa

The bird that Ben Potter uses is a cara-cara. The best bird to start off with is a common buzzard. Harris hawks can be somewhat unpleasant when they reach maturity. They can show aggression towards your partner, children, dog, and eventually you. That's because they are a social bird and like to establish a pecking order. Don't get me wrong I think they are a fantastic second bird and it's fun to hunt with 3 at the same time, but they're easy to train improperly. A Common Buzzard will help a beginner learn more about weight management and if you can get 1 catching rabbit you've done well.

PM me if you need any advise.


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## Cookaaaaay

LoveForLizards said:


> Nope...
> You also have the money for a falconry dog/pair of ferrets, their equipment and the bird also. :lol2:
> 
> Still want one? :whistling2:


Lol, yeah I still want one.

I'll just have to save up for a year or two or three or four or five... Haha.


Is getting a falconry dog/pair of ferrets absolutely necessary ?
What do they do ?


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## Cookaaaaay

Scoffa said:


> The bird that Ben Potter uses is a cara-cara. The best bird to start off with is a common buzzard. Harris hawks can be somewhat unpleasant when they reach maturity. They can show aggression towards your partner, children, dog, and eventually you. That's because they are a social bird and like to establish a pecking order. Don't get me wrong I think they are a fantastic second bird and it's fun to hunt with 3 at the same time, but they're easy to train improperly. A Common Buzzard will help a beginner learn more about weight management and if you can get 1 catching rabbit you've done well.
> 
> PM me if you need any advise.


Thank you.

and yeah that's it. I knew it started with a k or c lol (The Cara Cara bird).

Thanks again.


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## LoveForLizards

Cookaaaaay said:


> Lol, yeah I still want one.
> 
> I'll just have to save up for a year or two or three or four or five... Haha.
> 
> 
> Is getting a falconry dog/pair of ferrets absolutely necessary ?
> What do they do ?


Pretty much essential, and with a hunting bird, you won't get far without them. Dogs flush, mark, point, find etc, ferrets flush rabbit warrens. : victory:


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## Cookaaaaay

LoveForLizards said:


> Pretty much essential, and with a hunting bird, you won't get far without them. Dogs flush, mark, point, find etc, ferrets flush rabbit warrens. : victory:


Ok thanks. :2thumb:


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## Spadger

*Beginning Falconry*

Hi Cookaaay,
dont let people put you off falconry by trying to bewilder you with prices and part technical jargon, one way you could start is by finding a centre local to you and asking if they take volunteers, you will learn a lot more that way than from any book although books are still a valuable tool. When it comes to falconry a lot of people have a lot of opinions, mine for what its worth is that a Harris Hawk IS an excellent bird to start with, ok they may be easier to train than some birds but surely thats a good thing, you wouldn't learn to drive in a lorry cos a car was too easy would you? Too many people start with Buzzards only to give them away after a year or so cos they are not very good hunters or start with a red tail and make a mess of training it then sell it to someone who is just starting out for them to have problems with. The main thing is the welfare of the bird that is ALWAYS the most important thing . As far as Harris's turning aggressive, if they are manned ( handled ) properly and regularly that shouldn't be an issue although in my experience male Harriss's tend to be less prone to this.
Yes Falconry can be expensive but there are things like birthdays and christmas, if your really keen you could make a wishlist for family to buy things from as presents. If you attend a good course or volunteer at a centre they will probably show you how to make a lot of it.
But if its something you really fancy, give it a go.

ATB
Spadger


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## KoopaTheBoa

I know it is miles away from you but the Pird Of Prey Centre on the Isle of White runs a whole week long residential programme teaching all kinds of things.

Maybe there is one near you that will do similar?

I think you have to be over 16 or accompanied by an adult (who also has to be taking part not just watching) to do these but i am not certain.

So maybe this is something you could think about? I good 16th birthday present i would have though.


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## Cookaaaaay

Spadger said:


> Hi Cookaaay,
> dont let people put you off falconry by trying to bewilder you with prices and part technical jargon, one way you could start is by finding a centre local to you and asking if they take volunteers, you will learn a lot more that way than from any book although books are still a valuable tool. When it comes to falconry a lot of people have a lot of opinions, mine for what its worth is that a Harris Hawk IS an excellent bird to start with, ok they may be easier to train than some birds but surely thats a good thing, you wouldn't learn to drive in a lorry cos a car was too easy would you? Too many people start with Buzzards only to give them away after a year or so cos they are not very good hunters or start with a red tail and make a mess of training it then sell it to someone who is just starting out for them to have problems with. The main thing is the welfare of the bird that is ALWAYS the most important thing . As far as Harris's turning aggressive, if they are manned ( handled ) properly and regularly that shouldn't be an issue although in my experience male Harriss's tend to be less prone to this.
> Yes Falconry can be expensive but there are things like birthdays and christmas, if your really keen you could make a wishlist for family to buy things from as presents. If you attend a good course or volunteer at a centre they will probably show you how to make a lot of it.
> But if its something you really fancy, give it a go.
> 
> ATB
> Spadger


Thanks a lot.


KoopaTheBoa said:


> I know it is miles away from you but the Pird Of Prey Centre on the Isle of White runs a whole week long residential programme teaching all kinds of things.
> 
> Maybe there is one near you that will do similar?
> 
> I think you have to be over 16 or accompanied by an adult (who also has to be taking part not just watching) to do these but i am not certain.
> 
> So maybe this is something you could think about? I good 16th birthday present i would have though.


Thanks, I think Isle of White is a bit too far away.


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## Scoffa

If you want to fly a particular bird ie goshawk, sparrow hawk, falcon, etc, etc, then find a falconer who flies that particular bird and is willing to teach you. Don't go and buy a bird that you will pass on after a year. My mentor has a male Common Buzzard that he picked up as a baby 33 years ago. He's caught rabbit with it in the past, so don't under estimate them. It relies on the falconer having the ability to train the bird. Unfortunately most people who start with the Harris struggle with a second bird because they are lulled into a false sense thinking that it's easy to train a bird.


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## Cookaaaaay

Scoffa said:


> If you want to fly a particular bird ie goshawk, sparrow hawk, falcon, etc, etc, then find a falconer who flies that particular bird and is willing to teach you. Don't go and buy a bird that you will pass on after a year. My mentor has a male Common Buzzard that he picked up as a baby 33 years ago. He's caught rabbit with it in the past, so don't under estimate them. It relies on the falconer having the ability to train the bird. Unfortunately most people who start with the Harris struggle with a second bird because they are lulled into a false sense thinking that it's easy to train a bird.


 
Oops didn't see this post, sorry.

Thanks for the tip.


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## LoveForLizards

Scoffa said:


> If you want to fly a particular bird ie goshawk, sparrow hawk, falcon, etc, etc, then find a falconer who flies that particular bird and is willing to teach you. Don't go and buy a bird that you will pass on after a year. My mentor has a male Common Buzzard that he picked up as a baby 33 years ago. He's caught rabbit with it in the past, so don't under estimate them. It relies on the falconer having the ability to train the bird. Unfortunately most people who start with the Harris struggle with a second bird because they are lulled into a false sense thinking that it's easy to train a bird.


A-men!


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## Spadger

Scoffa said:


> If you want to fly a particular bird ie goshawk, sparrow hawk, falcon, etc, etc, then find a falconer who flies that particular bird and is willing to teach you. Don't go and buy a bird that you will pass on after a year. My mentor has a male Common Buzzard that he picked up as a baby 33 years ago. He's caught rabbit with it in the past, so don't under estimate them. It relies on the falconer having the ability to train the bird. Unfortunately most people who start with the Harris struggle with a second bird because they are lulled into a false sense thinking that it's easy to train a bird.


 
So you are saying that a gos or a sparrowhawk is a good first bird....... be real!
where do you get your statistics from that most falconers starting with a Harris struggle with a second bird???or is that just your opinion?You can catch the odd rabbit with a buzzard but not as many as with a Harris. 
Even wit a mentor a lot of experienced falconers fail to get the best out of a Gos. Most people can train a Harris but its a whole different ball game getting the best out of them and hunting them properly.

The lad came on here asking for advice and with the exception of a couple of people all he has got is your too young and its too expensive for a kid like you.
I have seen teenagers make excellent falconers and know it all adults make really bad ones,so age is not an issue, commitment is!

and yes I do fly Harris Hawks I have 7 of them as well as Gyr Falcons Saker Falcons E E Owls Snowy Owl, Red TailHawks, Kestrel,Lanner Falcons ,Peregrine Falcon, Barn owls and a little owl admitttedly the little owl struggles with rabbits lol ( that was a joke )
So I do think I have a valid opinion

Spadger


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## Stumps

Spadger said:


> So you are saying that a gos or a sparrowhawk is a good first bird....... be real!
> where do you get your statistics from that most falconers starting with a Harris struggle with a second bird???or is that just your opinion?You can catch the odd rabbit with a buzzard but not as many as with a Harris.
> Even wit a mentor a lot of experienced falconers fail to get the best out of a Gos. Most people can train a Harris but its a whole different ball game getting the best out of them and hunting them properly.
> 
> The lad came on here asking for advice and with the exception of a couple of people all he has got is your too young and its too expensive for a kid like you.
> I have seen teenagers make excellent falconers and know it all adults make really bad ones,so age is not an issue, commitment is!
> 
> and yes I do fly Harris Hawks I have 7 of them as well as Gyr Falcons Saker Falcons E E Owls Snowy Owl, Red TailHawks, Kestrel,Lanner Falcons ,Peregrine Falcon, Barn owls and a little owl admitttedly the little owl struggles with rabbits lol ( that was a joke )
> So I do think I have a valid opinion
> 
> Spadger


Agree with what you say, best beginner birds that i have been told are Harris hawks, commonbuzzards and red-tailed buzzards. I been told its not good to have smaller birds like sparrow hawks as a beginner as its easy to kill them due to small changes in their weight whilst training can be fatal.


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## Scoffa

Spadger said:


> Most people can train a Harris but its a whole different ball game getting the best out of them and hunting them properly.
> 
> and yes I do fly Harris Hawks I have 7 of them as well as Gyr Falcons Saker Falcons E E Owls Snowy Owl, Red TailHawks, Kestrel,Lanner Falcons ,Peregrine Falcon, Barn owls and a little owl admitttedly the little owl struggles with rabbits lol ( that was a joke )
> So I do think I have a valid opinion
> 
> Spadger


So many birds, how do you manage to do them all justice? I've seen loads of 'FALCONERS' with a lawn full of garden ornaments.


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## Spadger

Scoffa said:


> So many birds, how do you manage to do them all justice? I've seen loads of 'FALCONERS' with a lawn full of garden ornaments.


 
I do them justice as I have a staff of 9 people who fly them with us plus we do it for a living not a hobby so I hardly think they qualify as Lawn ornaments, but seeing as how we are questioning peoples experience whats yours?
Too many people get a bird and 6 weeks later are an expert giving advice left right and centre.
What lawn ornaments do you have??

Spadger


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## LoveForLizards

Spadger said:


> The lad came on here asking for advice and with the exception of a couple of people all he has got is your too young and its too expensive for a kid like you.
> I have seen teenagers make excellent falconers and know it all adults make really bad ones,so age is not an issue, commitment is!


I am guessing this was pointed at me, and if so, you have it all wrong. I started falconry at a very young age so no I am not of that opinion.


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> I am guessing this was pointed at me, and if so, you have it all wrong. I started falconry at a very young age so no I am not of that opinion.


 
If I have it wrong I apologise but if you read back your post it does come accross a bit aggressively, you made some fair points but didn't make it sound like positive advice

Spadger


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> I am guessing this was pointed at me, and if so, you have it all wrong. I started falconry at a very young age so no I am not of that opinion.


 
Just a quick question after looking at your albums do you recommend people fly Harris hawks with no glove like your brother? 
Seems a basic thing to use a glove but what do I know

Spadger


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## LoveForLizards

Excuse me for being straight to the point and not sugar coating everything.


Spadger said:


> Just a quick question after looking at your albums do you recommend people fly Harris hawks with no glove like your brother?
> Seems a basic thing to use a glove but what do I know
> 
> Spadger


He wasn't flying 2.


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> Excuse me for being straight to the point and not sugar coating everything.
> He wasn't flying 2.


I quote '' my brother whilst flying to ( i think you mean two) hawks together, Todd on his left hand, Mitch on his right''

his right hand clearly has no glove on it!!!


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> Excuse me for being straight to the point and not sugar coating everything.
> 
> there is a difference between sugar coating things and being polite/helpful


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## LoveForLizards

Spadger said:


> I quote '' my brother whilst flying to ( i think you mean two) hawks together, Todd on his left hand, Mitch on his right''
> 
> his right hand clearly has no glove on it!!!


Yes, we were flying the two in a cast. The fact that there was a picture taken indicates that there was more then 1 person there, no? :whistling2:


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## LoveForLizards

Spadger said:


> there is a difference between sugar coating things and being polite/helpful


I'm intrigued. Where was I impolite and unhelpful?


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> Yes, we were flying the two in a cast. The fact that there was a picture taken indicates that there was more then 1 person there, no? :whistling2:


There is a picture of it stood on his hand or is that your hand youve lent him seeing as how you are so good.
Just a suggestion why dont you change your name to LoveForMyself:bash:


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## LoveForLizards

I saw no problem with that, he is very capable of dealing with them both himself, we often handle the birds without gloves on.

I don't love myself, I am simply pointing out the facts. But anyway, I am going to leave this now as I don't want to clog up the poor lads thread with irrelevant rubbish that is nothing to do with the subject in hand.


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## Spadger

LoveForLizards said:


> I saw no problem with that, he is very capable of dealing with them both himself, we often handle the birds without gloves on.
> 
> I don't love myself, I am simply pointing out the facts. But anyway, I am going to leave this now as I don't want to clog up the poor lads thread with irrelevant rubbish that is nothing to do with the subject in hand.


 
You see no problem with handling Birds of Prey without gloves???!!!!:bash:
I REST MY CASE!


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## andrew_mcg

It will take you alott of saving ...


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## groovy chick

LoveForLizards said:


> 2-3 times a week MINIMUM and flown at the very least every other day, will you be able to take the hawk out for 3/4 minimum flying time before it gets dark?
> 
> 
> I dont have a clue about bop's but was wondering why you cant fly them at night?? :blush:


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## Hopeinthedark

Just to add my 2 pennies, its not essential to have dogs, ferrets, etc etc to have a bird of prey, only if you want to hunt with it. Plenty of people keep them for 'fun' and fly them but aren't bothered about catching things. (hopefully people aren't now going to bite my head off and say that if you don't want to hunt you shouldn't be keeping a bird of prey... but from the aggression in this thread it wouldn't surprise me ;-) So long as you're aware they're carnivores and need to be fed dead animals, and don't have a problem with doing so.


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## LoveForLizards

groovy chick said:


> I dont have a clue about bop's but was wondering why you cant fly them at night?? :blush:


You can fly a hawk "on the lamp", but especially for a first season bird, its best to get them used to handling prey in day light. : victory:
Oh and most hawks/buzzards are diurnal, so don't have very good eye sight in the dark.


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## cmullins

all this lad wanted to know is about a good starter bird of prey so why are you all having a fany attack??!!!


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## Scoffa

Spadger said:


> I do them justice as I have a staff of 9 people who fly them...
> 
> Spadger


I rest my case, you pay people to fly them for you.:notworthy:


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## Spadger

Scoffa said:


> I rest my case, you pay people to fly them for you.:notworthy:


 
Dont try to mis quote me 
I said who help us fly them. I fly every one of my birds 
can you honestly say you fly your birds every single day (weather permitting of course)
What do you do with your birds when you go on holiday or you have to leave them? Mine are flown as usual. and if you say you dont go away then I will know you are lying because everyone leaves their birds at some time.
Plus how do you figure that just because I may not fly every bird myself every day that they birds are not done justice?
Plus when you have permission on 60,000 acres of land, 1 bird is not going to hunt all that, unless your bird is superbird, which I very much doubt.
Now go away for another couple of days and try to think of an answer.

Spadger


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## Cookaaaaay

I don't want to be rude, but can you please not argue on this thread, because nearly all the replies are comments for other people !?

Leave each other a comment on their pages not on here !


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## Spadger

*Sorry*

Sorry mate thats my fault.
I will wind my neck in 
ATB
Spadger


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## Cookaaaaay

Lol 

: victory:


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## LoveForLizards

Sorry dude. : victory:


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## Scoffa

My apologies also.:notworthy:

The best thing for you to do is find a falconer close to you who is willing to teach you. Training and flying BOP's is an individual thing and causes so many arguments, so you need 1 person who will show you their ways. Every book I've read gave conflicting advise. Falconers can't even agree on a set standard for the Lantra award.


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## spikyman121

i dont have experience but im also intrsted in starting and was thinking would a perigrin be to much :blush:


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## spikyman121

also enough about rabbit how about pigeon they dont need flushing


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## LoveForLizards

spikyman121 said:


> i dont have experience but im also intrsted in starting and was thinking would a perigrin be to much :blush:


Not if you have the right experience and training before hand. If you want to start with a falcon, then get a well seasoned falconer and get out with him/her 5-7 times a week, learn about training, lure swinging, diet, management, feather conditioning, housing, hunting, handling dogs etc.


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## Bopcrazy

Hi
I currently have 5 bop's 2 haris hawk's, American barn owl, British barn owl, and a E E owl all my birds are now free flying.

I would love to get an eagle but am not sure which one to begin with has anyone got any ideas or advice they could give?

So far the training I've had is a weeks training on at a bop centre near me.


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