# My Report on DWARF reptile rescue



## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

My report on DWARF reptile rescue

I just want to say first that I am NOT a reptile expert, I am NOT a vet or run a reptile rescue. I have a large collection of over 30 lizards and now safely “hook line and sunk” with snakes now (getting my first Boa next week). I have only 4 years experience with reptiles but have learnt quite a bit about different species of lizards and their husbandry. Snakes I’m a bit sketchy on so please excuse my lack of commenting on DWARF’s snake care as I simply don’t have the knowledge.

What you are about to read is has not been sugar coated in any way and is a true report on what I see yesterday at DWARF.

Yesterday I was invited to visit DWARF so that I could see for myself how they really treat their animals and the conditions of the facility.

In all honesty I didn’t see anything wrong. Here is what I saw;

The iguanas-
Although weren’t in Arboreal vivariums they were in 4-5ft long vivs with about 2.5ft of height. Iain Newby expressed his concerns that they weren’t in Aboreal vivs like he’d want them but with many unwanted iguanas out there being dumped on him all the time; space has to be compromised in order to take in more. I don’t really know the ins and outs of DWARF and exactly what comes through his doors but if I was in his place I would do exactly the same. If rescues like DWARF don’t take in these large and most of the time aggressive lizards then where are they to go? For the sake of compromising a little space for a period of time until rehoming, the animal is safe, heated, fed and cared for. The iguanas I see were all healthy looking, all had bowls filled up with fresh salad including oranges, different leafy greens and chopped tomatoes. They had clean water bowls and orchid bark substrate.

Roxy the Burmese Python-
She was kept in a very large custom built terrarium with a large pool built in the floor. It wasn’t well lighted and couldn’t get a good look at the tank at the bottom or of the Burmese resting there. There was a very large platform up top with ramps, panels and branches leading up to it. Above the platform was a basking area where it was well lit, which created a lot of shade down the bottom which meant I didn’t get a good look at the snake. 

Rock Python-
Kept very similar to Roxy but this python was up the top. Although I didn’t see any light I’m presuming there was a heat source and everything was as it should have been.

Again. I don’t have any experience with large snakes so what I saw could be argued as wrong. I simply don’t have the experience or knowledge to say “you shouldn’t be doing that” or criticizing Iain Newbys care. From what I’ve read on him and what he told me yesterday about his 15 years of working with reptiles, I really don’t have a reason to doubt his husbandry.

Tortoises-
All had salads, clean water bowls and were kept on orchid bark. Had a heater thingy at the back (Im not sure what it was called) and a UVB over head.

Beardies-
I see only 2 adult males. Each in a large 3-4ft tank with correct heating and lighting, had a large bowl of salad and the odd cricket running around. They looked healthy and plump although one had nose rub from a previous owner.

Adult male Yemen Chameleon-
Poor little bugger had a huge chunk taken out of his back and I was told that when he first came to the rescue he had to be taken to the vets and given painkillers and other medication because of his poor condition. He looked healthy apart from the obvious injury to his back and was kept in a 3ft by 4ft high viviarium(if I remember rightly) he had lots of décor to climb around on and his glass was wiped clean.

All others-
Plated lizards, cornsnake, adult pine snake, boa constrictor, small anaconda, white throat monitor, 4 leopard geckos and a few other random snakes. 

From what I could see, the above were kept appropriately with fresh salad, livefood or no livefood (meaning snakes to be fed defrosted) Most had multiple hides with the correct substrate. I think not one did I see with news paper. I made a point to check water bowls and they were all clean with the exception of a baby-subadult anaconda which had soiled his bowl very recently. 

A helper of the rescue was cleaning the vivs whilst I was there and every glass was wiped, and any toilets were being removed as they went, also water bowls were being rinsed then refilled which was good to see and they used hand sanitizer after every vivarium.

The vivs that the helper hadn’t reached weren’t that dirty in all honesty. Given that they hadn’t been cleaned prior that day they were only mildly dirty where bark had been kicked around or water bowls had been knocked slightly (you know what iggys are like)

The parrots were being cleaned out whilst I was there and had bark/wood toys and branches. They looked in good health although one had very over grown nails which Iain was clipping back bit by bit. He assured me the parrots long nails (thus long quick) was the previous owners fault and he was gradually correcting it. I’ve personally seen it with dogs happen all too often.

I know some of you personally dislike Iain Newby and others running DWARF and some of you may think I’ve written this, and it is all lies to make DWARF look good. 
I have been threatened with court action TWICE from two different petshops for so called “slander” when they didn’t like the way I was voicing what I see first hand at their premises. Everything I wrote was the truth. If I don’t like the way a shop…or a rescue in this case are treating their animals then I think its right that others know the true nature of the place and see through my eyes how the animals were being kept. 

Personally (and this is my opinion) I really can’t fault the place. Apart from the obvious housing situation of the Iguanas I was quite surprised how clean and healthy his animals were. Someone else could visit DWARF and say it was horrid and disgusting and his care was all wrong but then that would be their opinion also. 

I would like to thank DWARF for opening their doors to me and allowing me to see where very few have been. 

I wish you all the luck for the future.

Kelly aka White_Raven666


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

What species of tortoises were there at this rescue?


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## Phasmid (Sep 17, 2008)

since iain has been such an arrogant, selfish, immature child in all this matter I am no longer going to come to his defence, but i will post on what has been said above.

Let me first say your report does NOT excuse him from communicating the way he did with regards to trying to get animals rehomed on here a couple of months ago, of which infact he did not write himself instead getting volunteers to do it for him and even they had to change some of his words from the things he wanted to say to you all. Alot of chris newmans report was rubbish as I agreed with most of iains rubbish hoping a good report mite get the animals rehomed, the comment I like is about how very few have died at dwarf when I know the death toll is high. Perhaps iain is just blind to this as many things until it involves the tv crew or a newspaper.

Did you notice in your report the fact that every 2ft viv on the top row there is heated with heatmatts but no stats and the matts are even situated inside the vivs? we all saw the recent post on the royal python burnt from a unguarded/unstated heatmatt, perhaps the amount of health and safety risks there? or the fact alot of the tortoises are kept together when they have very different temps, humidity and food/substrate requirements. 

Iain should be in such debt to all who has given their free time to make a better life for these animals, the good you see in dwarf today is what you see as a result from the hard work that has gone it to the place by many people and i will thankyou in all this. Many of them will agree where we have been shifting out muck and working for the animals iain has sat on his ass drinking the Guinness, often asking his volunteers to perform tasks that he should be doing and nothing animal related like clean the barbecue paint my kitchen etc he shows very little interest in the reptiles leaning more to the construction side an his emu. Dwarf is much better today with regards to the centre, of which none of the volunteers have received gratitude for! I dread to think what your report would have turn up a year ago, when me and one other volunteer started doing one day a week we would often take dead snakes out that had been left in vivs and uneated food as well as mouldy iguana food and filthy waters. As it stands He didn’t even want you there with the opinion that your just nosy and some know it all from rfuk ( I was told about this from a current helper). Much more is still needed to be done at dwarf but I no longer work there anymore as not only do I need proper paid work I can no longer stand to work for someone so un qualified and arrogant! Its a shame he chooses not to listen to any of his helpers as they know a dam site more than him, a centre should be about listening to one another of the same cause making the life’s better for the animals not just one mans arrogant opinion over all others and often iains failure to do this has lead to the deaths of numerous animals.

My problem to today with the centre is the following.....
Rehoming should be number ONE priority and yet it is often left till last or to late. That iain still has judgment in how the reptiles are kept which on occasion leads to uneeded stress and injury on animals. His ways of communicating to the public like there vermin when he depends on them so much for donations. That he refuses to rehome certain animals claiming they are personal pets when it is not him who cares for them, but the volunteers. Even pets that are his e.g. dogs are guess what walked by the volunteers and most are overweight, until we started walking them iain doesn’t have time for this even tho he claim he gets up at 6 doesn’t start work till 11 and finishes most days at 2. My concerns are his views on putting snakes in together of which ive pulled snakes out from each others mouths, even keeping them together that present viruses such as the recent IBD out brake Which I believe SHOULD no about as your risking their animal by saying its not true when i have video proof. I believe he should be punished for the cruelty that he has caused to animals in the past he claims such anger to people who cause cruelty to animals yet he has caused unnecessary suffering on many occasions, such circumstances have involved him trying to keep 2male beardies together to which i object but I am under qualified according to him and this can be done, as a result one male died despite me trying to save him, Iain has had unguarded ceramic bulbs in vivs to which HORRIFIC burns have been caused and to witch iain makes excuses like it had a fight with another boa, him keeping many snakes together then moving them about the centre only spreading further risks. One that will upset me for my life long career will be the occasion i was told to put 6 snakes alive in the freezer (5 adult Colombian boas and a alabastar rat snake) this was when i was young and only been there a little while apparently this was the most humane way of putting snakes to sleep i found out later in life it wasn’t! Many other present/past volunteers have all there own stories of his miss conduct too, of which we have heard about the chameleon put in with alligator, 2 boscs starved to death, burms sprayed down in cold weather, lets not forget the burm that came in with serious ammonia iains idea of treating this is just chuck a lod of baytril down its throat and leave it! The poor burm later died gunk flew out its mouth when the volunteer removed it as it had been left in the viv for 2 days (iain didint want to get his hands dirty) and the african rock with skin pealing from it which cause alot of distress to the younger helpers we all told iain after week after week of suffering it should be put down. Or how he kept a tortoise on a heatmatt which caused stomach rot but im wrong about this too cause you can keep tortoises on heatmatts with no problems.

Although i believe iain means well i do not believe he has what it takes to run a proper reptile centre, if he had communicated with me properly and listened to others thing could have been left in the past and forgotten the centre could have been improved to almost 100% and a proper system established with recording keeping and rehoming. 

I can understand getting a report done to try and clear his name and win back some fame but I believe my view and of the other volunteers and iains mistakes mentioned, as it really does reflect the animals and the public. I am sure I will get a lot of stick for speaking the truth but I would like to say that I have proof of all these matters in picture/video form as well as many other volunteers who will back my view and have taken legal advice regarding everything that has gone on, before I start getting ppl associated with iain threatening me with court and abuse again.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

glad you finally came forward mate:notworthy: that took balls.

hopefully the powers that be read this and finally act. he shouldnt be allowed to carry on like this. good on ya fella:no1:


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

Nice to see you back Phasmid. White Raven it was good of you to go and have a look around the rescue. Can I ask why you were invited? I did not think Ian was allowing anyone to visit at the moment. Was you allowed access to the whole rescue ? was it Ian who gave you the guided tour? the reasons for my questions is that I would be very interested in visiting the rescue as I believe alot of other forum members would be.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

lefty said:


> glad you finally came forward mate:notworthy: that took balls.
> 
> hopefully the powers that be read this and finally act. he shouldnt be allowed to carry on like this. good on ya fella:no1:


May I please second that Lefty. Thank you kindly Sir. 

I have no doubt that Iain will get wind of this quickly and being the person he is, will ask to have it removed from sight asap, so would like to let you all know that although Mr Chris Weller went over and wrote a report about DWARF, in no way was it ever commissioned or sanctioned by Chris Newman or the FBH. This was Mr Weller trying to do Mr Newman a favour (or so He thought at the time) when it was mentioned that Chris Newman would like to go and have a look over the Centre but time was not a thing he had to spare in the present climate. The report just like the one above although carried out with good intentions, were carried out by people not qualified enough to take on such a task, and so the said reports do not carry any weight.

Mo.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

lefty said:


> glad you finally came forward mate:notworthy: that took balls.
> 
> hopefully the powers that be read this and finally act. he shouldnt be allowed to carry on like this. good on ya fella:no1:


Have to totaly agree with that as well, very intresting bit of reading.

I did contact dwarf as i said on past threads and was basicly fobbed off as expected. kelly how did you swing it and how much notice did he have of you visiting? Personaly just from photos and video fotage ive seen ive made quite a list of basics that where plain wrong.


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

I have read quite alot about Dwarf but will point out at this point that I have never visited the centre. However it does seem strange (that after the explosive thread not so long ago ) that Ian was saying no to all visits then issues an invitation to a forum member.... makes me wonder why he did not offer the invitation at the time of the thread.Surely an immediate invitation would have been the easiest way to shut everybody up.............that is assuming that there were and are no problems at the centre.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Maureen Collinson said:


> May I please second that Lefty. Thank you kindly Sir.
> 
> I have no doubt that Iain will get wind of this quickly and being the person he is, will ask to have it removed from sight asap, so would like to let you all know that although Mr Chris Weller went over and wrote a report about DWARF, in no way was it ever commissioned or sanctioned by Chris Newman or the FBH. This was Mr Weller trying to do Mr Newman a favour (or so He thought at the time) when it was mentioned that Chris Newman would like to go and have a look over the Centre but time was not a thing he had to spare in the present climate. The report just like the one above although carried out with good intentions, were carried out by people not qualified enough to take on such a task, and so the said reports do not carry any weight.
> 
> Mo.


heres to him not getting it removed this time. its about time it got sorted. this is the third or fourth ex staff member now thats come forward with this sort of info on the place and still nothing has been done. im shocked its been left to carry on. 

i dont know what made you come forward at last but youv done a good thing by doing so. just one more nail in his coffin. and dont let his threats bother you mate, theres plenty that will stand up for you. i hope the mods can see now that its not a witch hunt and leave this thread running for a change. the more good recues about the better, this is defo not one of them


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

to the OP;

i dont doubt for a minute that you have any other motive than to shed some light on the workings of the place but a report that starts with

quote; I just want to say first that I am NOT a reptile expert, I am NOT a vet or run a reptile rescue. I have a large collection of over 30 lizards and now safely “hook line and sunk” with snakes now (getting my first Boa next week). I have only 4 years experience with reptiles but have learnt quite a bit about different species of lizards and their husbandry. Snakes I’m a bit sketchy on so please excuse my lack of commenting on DWARF’s snake care as I simply don’t have the knowledge.

isnt really going to help. the place needs to be spot checked by quallified people that have the knowledge of the animlas in ians so called care. 

the encloser that roxys is in at the moment isnt suitable for her at all. if you knew somthing about burms you will have known this [again this is not an attack on you, just an observation]. for a start there isnt enough heat in there. its little bits like this that flaw your report. but at least its brought phasim out into the open with his report of first hand experiance of the disgusting practices going on there. have a read of his report and then get some basic knowledge of husbandry into a few of the different speicies hes got there and go back and have another lokk [because you seem to be the one person i know of thats gotten anywhere near the place to be honest] and then rewrite your above report. i bet theres some changes:whistling2:


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## DWARF (Dec 13, 2009)

Kelly
I would just like to thank you for taking the time to come see us and giving such an honest report, i enjoyed talking to you and seeing the pictures of your disabled lizard long may he continue.

Good luck with your new snake.

John


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

My flat mate and I offered to come over to DWARF to see about rehoming a Rat Snake or 2 funny thing is I never even got one pm or an email from you ?

I'll leave it there for now.


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## DWARF (Dec 13, 2009)

I was not involved in this account then phasmid was running it, if you are still interested i can arrange for you to come to DWARF on a Saturday, i am sorry you were not contacted.

John


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

DWARF said:


> Kelly
> I would just like to thank you for taking the time to come see us and giving such an honest report, i enjoyed talking to you and seeing the pictures of your disabled lizard long may he continue.
> 
> Good luck with your new snake.
> ...


it maybe honest but its far from helpful to you.



DWARF said:


> I was not involved in this account then phasmid was running it, if you are still interested i can arrange for you to come to DWARF on a Saturday, i am sorry you were not contacted.
> 
> John


 
now that you are involved with this account would you be up for a proper visit? by an educated experianced individual? not me before you say it as im far from qualified to check up on many of your rescues but theres a few people that spring to mind. it would be a great way of starting to improve your rep. and not an organised visit, that wouldnt clear up many of the issues that many have with DWARF. a visit out of the blue with maybe a few hours notice. its worth thinking about.


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## DWARF (Dec 13, 2009)

> it maybe honest but its far from helpful to you.


I asked Kelly because she showed an interest to see for herself if it was truly somewhere where animals go to die, in one of the threads where you yourself was vocal, i told her i would not be arranging visits for anyone else unless they were there to re-home an animal.

If Phasmid thinks the animals are not being looked after by my daughter that took his place he should have told her when he came round the other night.

If as in your statement honesty is no good whats the point.

John


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

was you around when he worked there? how about this visit then?


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

The problem with a visit would be they would know when the person was coming so at least do some basic house keeping like spot cleaning vivs, dusting and hoovering the rooms and so on. 

Im still more then happy to visit the place but i would want to basicly be able to just turn up and see them as they are day to day. While im no expert i do have 20 years of experience behind me across many many spieces of reptile from tiny geckos, through to monitors, turtles and giant pythons. Hell i will even help out by rehoming a few animals if any thing fits into my current set up and would also happly spend the day correcting stuff and cleaning out animals (just like i offered to do at beaver water world).

No disrespect ment to kelly at all ment here but maybe dwarf could see those most vocal had a more broad range of experience and thats why many of us simply are not welcome? Kelly i do rate you as a good keeper from what ive seen of you on forums so please dont take that negative.

The storys we have herd from past helpers along with my own statments about the show at tropical wings and info from mo and others is very very damming and added to what we have seen in pictures and on tv as well as ians posts on this very forum its clear there are major issues going on at dwarf. Infact even the name dwarf and the publicity seeking nature of ian sends worrying signals in many peoples minds.

And remember this is not just a lot of keyboard warriors on the attack, many of us talk to each other in the real world and talk to many others who are not on forums but also share the same concerns and views that we do.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

blood and guts said:


> No disrespect ment to kelly at all ment here but maybe dwarf could see those most vocal had a more broad range of experience and thats why many of us simply are not welcome? Kelly i do rate you as a good keeper from what ive seen of you on forums so please dont take that negative.
> 
> I concur with this.
> 
> ...




I again concur with this, and was being warned years back by other rescuers and people well in the know not to have anything to do with Iain. They did not have a single good word for him. I so wish I had listened instead of being drawn in by Iain at the time, believing every one deserves a chance. I have to live with that now. I refer to people that have met and dealt with Iain direct, or live in the immediate area that are in the know, but don't post on this forum.

Mo.


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## xmegzx (Jan 23, 2010)

i volunteered at dwarf for a year with phasmid and i agree with him that it was horrific. i was there to help with the animals and instead i had to clean up ians mess, i spent many a winter morning cleaning his paths and cleaning up dog mess but as soon as i had finished he would let the dogs out and expect me to do it again. i saw alot of animals die due to ians carelessness and i think all the voulunteers deserve a thank you for all the hard work we put in. i think phasmid deserves the biggest thank you from ian because he was there at one time almost every day of the week and he tried to save as many animals as possible but sometimes it was just too late. well done for speaking phasmid and i will back you up on this 100%


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

DWARF said:


> I asked Kelly because she showed an interest to see for herself if it was truly somewhere where animals go to die, in one of the threads where you yourself was vocal, i told her i would not be arranging visits for anyone else unless they were there to re-home an animal.
> 
> If Phasmid thinks the animals are not being looked after by my daughter that took his place he should have told her when he came round the other night.
> 
> ...


I am not phasmid and so can't answer directly as him or for him for that matter, however I do feel by the way this thread has come about that it was the report it's self from White-Raven that prompted phasmid to reply as he was aware of the areas that Claire had missed in her report, and it is clear that phasmid is hurting badly from the entire experience at DWARF as are many others no longer there now. 

This is not a reflection on how your Daughter looks after the reptiles there John, and I have no doubt at the time of phasmids visit to you, he had no intention of coming on here and posting, so there would not have been anything to say back then if I'm right, so you should not take offence over that detail.

At the end of the day John, your Daugther is only a volunteer there, just as I believe you to be, so neither of you will have full control on how the animals are treated for the main, and may not even have the knowledge to know fully what's what, so can only do your best. If you are however both aware of wrong doings going on with dumb helpless creatures depending on you for their lives, then it's you all that have to lve with it. For me, I can assure you it will continue to haunt me for the rest of my days placing my animals into harms way via Iain, and them losing their lives due to that.

Mo.


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

I think given everything that has been posted it would be easy to loss focus on what is important here which is the health and safety of the animals that are presently kept at Dwarf. Given that surely the obvious answer is for Ian and the volunteers at Dwarf to agree to a random inspection by a group of recognised experts .

As when all is said and done everyone (i would hope) wants the same thing for the reptiles/animals to be safe and healthly and to be found forever homes.


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## Phasmid (Sep 17, 2008)

I think your daughter is doing a wonderful job john i really do and have never had a problem with you or your daughter, I would have hoped your daughter would have commented on the truth here too as she has witnessed some of the horror that I have, the sort of things you know only to well. The point is she is only there 4 days a week and i know it only takes 2 minutes for a reptile to be with iain before he has caused damage. As i have seen this all to well on just one day off in the week when i have come in to be told oh something came in late last night I just dumped it anywhere and how till you came in!



DWARF said:


> I asked Kelly because she showed an interest to see for herself if it was truly somewhere where animals go to die, in one of the threads where you yourself was vocal, i told her i would not be arranging visits for anyone else unless they were there to re-home an animal.
> 
> If Phasmid thinks the animals are not being looked after by my daughter that took his place he should have told her when he came round the other night.
> 
> ...


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## Phasmid (Sep 17, 2008)

I have had many pms from x volunteers of dwarf sending there support but are as wary to post on here as i was here is one pm I got but have taken her name out as she does not want to be know.

That is a joke. I'm not gonna bother commenting on it cause I cant be bothered for more hassle off him, probably gonna get more stuff made up about me that i dont even know about and more arguments with him on the phone. But I agree with your comment on there. No point in sticking up for him now after all the crap he's been spreading about everyone. And he's been threatening to take people to court, not other's taking him. Annoying little man.


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## DWARF (Dec 13, 2009)

I have tried my best to improve the chance of animals being re-homed from DWARF at RFUK when i pick my daughter up i see animals that are healthy Viv's clean and fed what more do you want.

I will ask for the account DWARF to be removed your just being personal and i am sick of the lot of you, i don't even like reptiles but i wanted to help them, as all rescues should do by getting them a home.

John


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## scalesandtails (Jan 25, 2010)

i have to agree with phasmid, iain is not ideal to own a rescue centre, based on the reasoning that he does not have anything to do with the animals himself. he has not been rehoming them and his personnal pets are looked after by the volunteers rather then iain himself. this includes his overweight dogs, which were only recently being walked by the volunteers after debating with iain that they were unhealthy. he also gets his volunteers to do chores which include: fetching beers from his fridge, cleaning out his car and general house chores. on the note that said about the iguanas not having arboreal vivs so that more room could be spared as so many came in, ok this is fair but the amount of homes that have come up for the animals, decent homes as well and iain has not allowed the animals to go.. he has started collecting the animals. i do not wish to cause problems but i have to speak up for the sake of the animals, the poor things are not looked after how they should be, they deserve better homes and lives, they are in cramped conditions, medication is rarely sought for and the animals have been culled in a very cruel manner, i have witnessed a lot of the goings on there as i also used to work at this centre. most of the iguanas were handleable while i was working there due to hard work with them, they were ready to be rehomed but unfortunately now they have been left alone and are now rarely handled. all the animals are very unhappy in there present situations and deserve the good homes that are being offered to them. something has to be done as these animals are sufferind due to no fault of there own. the centre doesnt always look tidy, he gets the volunteers to work extra time when people are coming in, someone needs to turn up unexpectedly then u will see the mouldy food and the mess everywhere. i have also known animals to need medication whilst they have been at DWARF and as knowone works on a sunday iain should be medicating them, which he does not do. he is very immature and big headed. he will not be told if he is wrong.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

DWARF said:


> I will ask for the account DWARF to be removed your just being personal and i am sick of the lot of you, i don't even like reptiles but i wanted to help them, as all rescues should do by getting them a home.
> 
> John


And in that last few lines lays part of the problem, if you dont even like them how can you really be doing the best for them?
At the end of the day every one posting here only wants whats best for the animals. 
Maybe if yous had been less aggressive and took the critisim laid at yous in a mature profesional mannor you may have got along better on the forum. 
Some of us are still more then happy to come down and offer adice and help on correcting problems and maybe even taking some animals away if ian would allow it.


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## Sabre1989 (Jan 25, 2010)

I woud like to say that im also an ex volunteer of DWARF and i can say that i have witnessed some of the things that Phasmid has said. i was only a volunteer for about 5 months and then i was ill for about a month and was not able to attend. During the time i was ill another volunteer asked me about a rumor that i supposedly started and told iain and that i had told him a week before this at dwarf but i was at home in bed ill at this point and many believe that iain tries to turn his current volunteers against the ex volunteers so that they dont believe the stories that we have to tell. I have also witnessed him drinking and smoking with his feet up whalst we work our arses off to help the animals and try and complete all his construction work so that we can help the animals before the day is up. I cant comment on the lookin after of the reptiles as i dont know much but i always did what Phasmid told me to do as ive known him for years and trust his judgement. This is what i have to say and that i will back Phasmid every step of the way.


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## DWARF (Dec 13, 2009)

> And in that last few lines lays part of the problem, if you dont even like them how can you really be doing the best for them?


my daughter loves reptiles she looks after the reptiles at dwarf

i do not have anything to do with the reptiles at dwarf i do the web site and try to promote the rehoming of animals, which i have just started, i think i am doing something good if you think i must love reptiles to do this then maybe i shall just keep to my ferret rescue, ferret people seem to be less argumentative

john


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

DWARF said:


> my daughter loves reptiles she looks after the reptiles at dwarf
> 
> i do not have anything to do with the reptiles at dwarf i do the web site and try to promote the rehoming of animals, which i have just started, i think i am doing something good if you think i must love reptiles to do this then maybe i shall just keep to my ferret rescue, ferret people seem to be less argumentative
> 
> john


Peta, rspca, caps, alf, animal aid, apa etc all claim to be doing somthing good as well! 

Good intentions does not mean a lot if you dont know what your doing or are just seeking the fame and ego from it. Yes im sure you guys have done some good work but as i said befor out of the frying pan and into the fire sums it up for many reptiles.

So about visiting, maybe a group of us poping down one day soon for a nose and it could result in some rehomes for yous?


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## Ruth (Oct 17, 2007)

blood and guts said:


> So about visiting, maybe a group of us poping down one day soon for a nose and it could result in some rehomes for yous?


Sounds like a good idea to me and after all Iain did state the following with regard to his doors always open so guess a visit is in order:

"to anyone who has doubts about me, iain newby or dwarf cause of the remarks from maureen plz ask her to visit her facility see if she will open her doors to you? *my doors are always open to anyone who wants to check us out*, then make ur own mind up."

Was not able to quote in the usual manner as the thread this quote is contained within is closed.

Ruth


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

So what species of tortoise are there at this rescue? How are they kept?


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

why hasnt this c:censor::censor:t been shut down?


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

I would like to add some clarity to the situation regards the suggested FBH endorsement of DWARF, this is not correct the FBH neither endorses or denounce DWARF. Whilst I have spoken with Ian on several occasions by phone I have not visited his facility or indeed commissioned any reports. Chris Weller visited I believe last year and sent me a report on his visit, that report was positive. I have been asked to visit the facility and I will do so as soon as time permits.

The alleged issues that have been raised about DWARF in fact has a much broader connotations for ‘rescue centres’ in general. At the moment anyone can set up a rescue centre, taking animals in and rehome them entirely unregulated. Historically reptile rescue centres have, by enlarge, a pretty poor reputation. Some have been more interested in generating ‘fame and fortune’ over concerns for the actual welfare of animals! This is unfortunate and very unfair for those rescue centers that have been doing a good job.

Under the Animal Welfare Act [AWA] the issue of ‘sanctuaries and rehoming centres’ has been raised, some, and I am one of them, argue that rehoming centres should be regulated [licensed]. The cynic within me is of the opinion that in many ways rehoming centres are merely unlicensed pet shops! That is perhaps a little harsh, but not entirely inaccurate. Unfortunately under the AWA the issue of regulating sanctuaries and rehoming centres is not on the horizon for even discussion, let alone action. Therefore it is likely to be years before anything will be done to regulate them, which is very unfortunate for those which do a good job.

I firmly believe that regulation is the way forward, although as stated this is likely to be some way off. Therefore I would like to float the idea of some form of accreditation scheme in the interim! I have not thought this thro in detail it will be complicated, but not insurmountable, to have some form of accreditation scheme whereby rescue and rehoming centres for reptiles can apply for accreditation. This would have no statutory powers, but perhaps would offer some reassurances to people either wishing to find homes for animals or indeed take animals on. 

Thoughts please! [polite ones!]


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## x_firefly_x (Sep 18, 2009)

Under the Animal Welfare Act [AWA] the issue of ‘sanctuaries and rehoming centres’ has been raised, some, and I am one of them, argue that rehoming centres should be regulated [licensed]. The cynic within me is of the opinion that in many ways rehoming centres are merely unlicensed pet shops! That is perhaps a little harsh, but not entirely inaccurate. Unfortunately under the AWA the issue of regulating sanctuaries and rehoming centres is not on the horizon for even discussion, let alone action. Therefore it is likely to be years before anything will be done to regulate them, which is very unfortunate for those which do a good job.

I firmly believe that regulation is the way forward, although as stated this is likely to be some way off. Therefore I would like to float the idea of some form of accreditation scheme in the interim! I have not thought this thro in detail it will be complicated, but not insurmountable, to have some form of accreditation scheme whereby rescue and rehoming centres for reptiles can apply for accreditation. This would have no statutory powers, but perhaps would offer some reassurances to people either wishing to find homes for animals or indeed take animals on. 

Thoughts please! [polite ones!] [/QUOTE]


When I started my degree a few years ago and we started learning all about animal welfare and regulations, I was actually shocked that there were no regulations in place for rehoming centres/sanctuaries etc. And having seen the kind of damage that can be done to animals(all of them not necessarily just reptiles) under incorrect care I find it a little scary that any random person can just set up as a rehoming centre.

I think some kind of intermediary accreditation scheme would be a very good idea until proper regulation can be put into place. Its obviously not going to solve all the problems but the most important thing is that its a stepping stone in the right direction, if we can start to get places like rehoming centres inspected by qualified people on a regular basis it'll start doing some good. And I think most members of the public looking to either donate to a rescue or rehome from one would be much happier doing so from an accredited centre. It might not help all centres but even if it helps just a few centres "change their ways" and improve the care they give to their animals then I think its worth it


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Chris Newman said:


> I would like to add some clarity to the situation regards the suggested FBH endorsement of DWARF, this is not correct the FBH neither endorses or denounce DWARF. Whilst I have spoken with Ian on several occasions by phone I have not visited his facility or indeed commissioned any reports. Chris Weller visited I believe last year and sent me a report on his visit, that report was positive. I have been asked to visit the facility and I will do so as soon as time permits.
> 
> The alleged issues that have been raised about DWARF in fact has a much broader connotations for ‘rescue centres’ in general. At the moment anyone can set up a rescue centre, taking animals in and rehome them entirely unregulated. Historically reptile rescue centres have, by enlarge, a pretty poor reputation. Some have been more interested in generating ‘fame and fortune’ over concerns for the actual welfare of animals! This is unfortunate and very unfair for those rescue centers that have been doing a good job.
> 
> ...


*First let me stress that I am not commenting on DWARF in any way shape or form if I refer to anything negative in this post. I am purely commenting on the "accreditation scheme" concept, and I apologise to DWARF for hijacking their thread! If you fall asleep half way through, sorry! :whistling2:*

I would very much like to see an accreditation scheme for rescue centres. As a moderator here, we frequently remove adverts of people asking for "free animals" - in some cases - this has been adverts of "rescue centres" ASKING for animals! Any reasonable reptile rescue probably has more than they can cope with at any one time, and would LOVE for more genuine rescues to be set up in the area to help with the workload. I wrote in a rehoming advert just yesterday, that I may actually have to start turning male bearded dragons down - having 3 in the last 3 weeks with 2 more coming in this week, and it can take months to rehome just one.
For 3 years now we have taken in any animal, no questions asked - which has included dozens of turtles, adult tortoises without paperwork, probably around 10-15 bearded dragons a year and steadily rising, a variety of WC animals, geckos, snakes - from tiny corn snakes to a 14ft burmese, iguana's by the truckload, mice, rats - and even 4 kittens in the last 2 years! There is no doubt in my mind that there is a huge demand for specialist reptile centres and many many reptiles out there needing to be responsibly rehomed.

On top of that every year we get dozens of call outs from the police & local council about moving or collecting snakes found by the public. 9/10 this turns out to be a slow worm or grass snake, but we have been called to remove an adder from a children's playground - and also last year I believe 3 callouts were corn snakes, and one a royal python in dire condition. The longest callout was over an hour drive each way - and often, the snake has gone by the time we reach the destination, but we still feel we should investigate, in case it is a non native species in need of rescue, or a native species that is genuinely causing a danger/risk to itself or others. If we spend a few hours and find a grass snake then obviously we say, yup, that's a grass snake - and we turn around and leave - there's nothing for us to do, but try to educate the callers about british wildlife and stress that this snake is protected and does not want to harm them! But if there's even a 1% chance that it's an escaped pet, we have to spend that time.

I am a pet shop ultimately. If I did not run a pet shop I could not take in rescues. I don't have the space, or the money at home. I syphon resources from my business into the rescues. Myself and my employees can look after them whilst at work, my quarantine and boarding vivs out of the public eye can take in an influx of animals. I don't call myself a rescue centre, there is no point, everyone will always see me as a pet shop. I see being a pet shop the reason that I have the opportunity to help some reptiles, and I don't feel the need to prove myself as a rescuer to anyone, but I do think an accreditation scheme would help all rehomers.

It does mean I am licensed and inspected - which includes an inspection of our rescue vivs as they are on the premises (but not available to the public). It also means people are often skeptical about me rehoming, and consider it "selling", but I can show considerable vet bills - probably running into the thousands - for the last 3 years, and have never charged a rehoming fee of more than £10-£20. Anyone who thinks they can make a profit off running a genuine reptile rescue is absolutely crazy - but people out there still do.

An accreditation scheme could be anything from as little as simply being willing to furnish an organisation with your address, telephone number, and the details of the vet you work with, to a full blown yearly inspection (spot check of course, as the council does for the PSL) from someone experienced with animals, to showing accounts, expenditure and rehoming fees in a charity-style open-access yearly report. I would be more than happy to do all of the above and I think any genuine rescue centre will welcome this and has nothing to hide. Some standardized set of rehoming fees that is endorsed, along with the possibility of that organisation providing a legal contract for rehoming (ie. no permission to resell, I know customs does this - but most small reptile centres do not have access to a solicitor to draw up the relevant papers), would also be greatly beneficial. The one complaint I hear most about rehoming is in regards to the fee and it's comparison to just buying the animal retail, and people thinking the centre is turning a profit off these fees.

Experience and qualifications could also be taken into consideration in regards to an accreditation scheme. Also I believe quarantine should be considered, and furthermore - if you're housing a lot of animals, as well as having volunteers or people helping with the animals - surely health & safety is an issue. There should be standard hygiene procedures as well as safety procedures, just like a normal license. Fire can happen in the home just as in a business and having an evacuation procedure always helps people not to panic in an emergency situation. And even taking it to the extremes - if you are a genuine reptile rescue you are no doubt having the general public come (by appointment) to look at or collect their new animals, and discuss their needs. What happens if that person falls, trips, gets bitten, or decides to kick up a fuss about this? Where do reptile rescues stand with public liability? I think this should be researched and if an information pack and costings could be forwarded to rescues on request, it would help them decide how best to protect themselves, and the general public of course.

I guess in the above, I would also be looking at the organisation who runs the accreditation to help & support the reptile centres as well, providing them with perhaps some of the information that will allow them to help themselves. Perhaps this is not a feasable idea, at the end of the day, this all costs money, and money is the one thing that any reptile rescue does not have in abundance. A question would come down to cost - if the accreditation cost £200 a year, many reptile rescues would have to forego - that £200 could directly save a life or two.

But ultimately I think accreditation would bring some semblance of respectability to those of us who work our butts off for the animals - this respectability would make it easier to find homes, especially if there was a published list or some advertising included, it would also make it easier for people to find somewhere to call about a reptile that needs rescuing, be it exotic or native. Anything that brings up awareness of the centres that are doing a good job - will ultimately be good for the animals, which is always going to be the end desire. But it would be a long, hard and complicated process to set up I think.

I firmly believe that many reptile rescues do not have the opportunity to prove themselves and are branded with incorrect and bad information. Unless you actually take in animals it is hard to understand the amount of time, work & money that goes into getting these animals ready to be rehomed. I also think there are potentially thousands of animals out there that are dying and suffering every single year because people do not know where to take them if they cannot (or will not) look after them.

Apologies for the wall of text and thanks to anyone who actually read it, reptile rescue is something I feel very strongly about, and I didn't mean to hijack the thread but felt Chris Newman's suggestion merited a reply.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

I was going to make a long winded reply but I do think Athraven has pretty much summed it up.

There does need to be some sort of self regulation as well, with the Rescues with the best intentions supporting each other and facing the critisism that will always arise from the public. I get tired of the 'why do rescues charge a fee' questions, fed up with the people who claim to be a rescue but clearly just sell on with no thought for quarinteen and health checks.
Ok we have lists of rescues, but there is no guide lines in place, should the place have a written report from a qualified vet ? should rehome fees be standardised ? and i can think of many more issues that could and should be adressed.

Something that has just sprung in to my foggy mind.......... if a rescue is accredited by the FBH it could well be a step forward in helping (rather than slating) struggling petshops as I am sure if a manager was approached gently by a recognised body they would be more likely to take advise and maybe even hand over unwell animals in their care


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

Athravan and Wohic have pretty much covered everything I wanted to say. For many years we have taken in animals/reps we have had many just dumped on the doorstep.

An accreditation scheme is a great idea and would ,I hope, put those so called rescues that are fame seekers or flippers ( I believe this is the term for taking an animal to sell on for porfit) out of action.

Rescuing is not easy and it is not cheap and I have never met a person yet who makes a proifit out of it. You do it because of your love of animals and some of the things you see and have to deal with can be soul destroying. So tales of neglect at rescue centres really is upsetting .


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## Ruth (Oct 17, 2007)

Athravan and Wohic have both given some very valid input here and the only thought I have to add to this is, whichever body were to undertake the task of accreditation should in my view have a group of experienced reptile rescue personnel on board in addition to any experienced keepers/vets as the care/husbandary requirements to sucessfully run a rescue is a very specialised area that not all keeper/vets would have necessarily had exposure too.

Ruth


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The suggestion of some form of accreditation scheme has generated some interest, perhaps it is worth trying to tease out some more detail of how this could work, what is or is not possible with such a scheme.

Costs have been raised and in my mind this is a fundamental point, it would have to be cost effective, no more than 30-50 quid. That in its self bring limitations, things cost money and lack of funding is always an issue. That said I don’t want to get bogged down on money issues, money is just a technicality and is only an issue if you let it be an issue – if you follow.

Broadly how I see this working is developing a Code of Practice [CoP] for rescue/rehoming centres to comply with, so in essence to get accreditation you would have to comply with the CoP. This would require an initial inspection, so we are already generating issues in who will be the ‘inspector’! Let’s park that point for a moment and look more at what would be in a CoP? 

The CoP is actually the most fundamental point, it would need quite a strong and robust CoP, does anyone have any issues or suggestions on this! If RFUK is interested perhaps they could create a facility for interested people to post and develop this idea without to much interference by people who are simply interested in disrupting this debate!

As for the inspectors, this is tough, and a reasonably substantial issue to overcome. However, I do believe there are people out there with substantial knowledge and experience that would be interested in putting something back in to the hobby, by donating some time. So tough, but not insurmountable.

Overall this is an issue that I have thought about and discussed many times over the years, with both FBH and REPTA. I think there are real possibilities to do something, so bottom line – who is interested to discuss this further!


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> The suggestion of some form of accreditation scheme has generated some interest, perhaps it is worth trying to tease out some more detail of how this could work, what is or is not possible with such a scheme.
> 
> Costs have been raised and in my mind this is a fundamental point, it would have to be cost effective, no more than 30-50 quid. That in its self bring limitations, things cost money and lack of funding is always an issue. That said I don’t want to get bogged down on money issues, money is just a technicality and is only an issue if you let it be an issue – if you follow.
> 
> ...


Totally agree although perhaps possible 'backlash' from supporters of the rescue could put off potential 'inspectors?' Locally I know of people who have been put off helping EHO's inspect due to possible backlash from the businesses inspected.

Personally I feel while there is a level of 'good' rescue work out there, too many people seek to make or perhaps eek out a living from running a 'rescue' centre. 

Rehoming fees are something that I would particularly like to see addressed, with most reptiles being rehomed at around market value per species rather than just a standard rehoming fee. Looking at other animal rescuse centres it seems that reptiles are unusual in this with most cat/dog and bird rescues charging a flat rate rather than basing the rehoming fee on the current market value of species or type.

I feel that transparency of donations/income/expenditure is essential in building trust in such ventures and perhaps if relying on donations/fund raising events then Charity status should be sort?


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I am sure any rescue centre who is in it for the right reasons, myself included would be more than happy to sit an acreditation. I'd back you on that Chris and think you should push for it.


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## White_raven666 (Mar 20, 2007)

Hello Everyone

Sorry its taken so long for me to reply to this. Work and other commitments:bash:.



> What species of tortoises were there at this rescue?


Im not entirely sure Zoo-man. I should have mentioned at the beggining that I know next to nothing about tortoises as well as large snakes too. PM them and ask:2thumb:



> Did you notice in your report the fact that every 2ft viv on the top row there is heated with heatmatts but no stats and the matts are even situated inside the vivs? we all saw the recent post on the royal python burnt from a unguarded/unstated heatmatt, perhaps the amount of health and safety risks there? or the fact alot of the tortoises are kept together when they have very different temps, humidity and food/substrate requirements.


No sorry I didnt notice the heatmats without stats. I didnt really want to ask to many questions incase I angered or offended anyone at DWARF.
and again I do apologise. I definately dont have enough experience to give a really detail report with much use.  



> [to the OP;
> 
> i dont doubt for a minute that you have any other motive than to shed some light on the workings of the place but a report that starts with
> 
> ...


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Chris Newman said:


> Overall this is an issue that I have thought about and discussed many times over the years, with both FBH and REPTA. I think there are real possibilities to do something, so bottom line – *who is interested to discuss this further!*


As some one that gets the occasional re-home appear at my door, just because the locals know I keep reptiles I think this would be a great idea.

I have suggested several times in the past that there will be no positive move forward in the rescue sector until the main (respected and experienced) players get together and form a recognised dedicated body. 
A simple friendly face to face meeting has to be a positive move forward at this point in time and will hopefully lead to a better situation in the future for both the animals and the people working to help them.

Natrix


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Natrix said:


> .
> I have suggested several times in the past that there will be no positive move forward in the rescue sector until the main (respected and experienced) players get together and form a recognised dedicated body.
> A simple friendly face to face meeting has to be a positive move forward at this point in time and will hopefully lead to a better situation in the future for both the animals and the people working to help them.
> 
> Natrix


Excellent idea, a meeting to form a governing body and to network reputable rescues would be a god send. I am in !

anyone else's thoughts on this ?


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Natrix said:


> As some one that gets the occasional re-home appear at my door, just because the locals know I keep reptiles I think this would be a great idea.
> 
> I have suggested several times in the past that there will be no positive move forward in the rescue sector until the main (respected and experienced) players get together and form a recognised dedicated body.
> A simple friendly face to face meeting has to be a positive move forward at this point in time and will hopefully lead to a better situation in the future for both the animals and the people working to help them.
> ...


A very good idea, maybe dealing with this as part of another confrence would be a better idea? That way the fbh can show a more public side and a lot of diffrent ideas on rescues can be put foward.

I was all for some form of licenseing on rescues and did put this in response to the awb along with other stuff that we diddent get such as a ban on religus slaughter practice but thats for another time.

As ive said many times you dont need to be a rocket scientist to see whats wrong with some rescues and we have had bigger problems from some in the past. The case on this one being dwarf, enough pics and vid along with some pretty good keepers views and wittness statments say somthing needs to give. The problem is the rspca seem to like using these, beaver water and so on witch begs the questions why do they pick on some good keepers and why do they use these bad places.


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