# Enigma Origin?



## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi,

I have just joined the forum, and am looking into breeding my leo's. Have been reading posts on enigma's and can only find info saying you have to have an enigma with one or two genes to produce an enigma. 

How did the enigma gene occur to begin with?

Also I have a superhypo CT male and was wondering about breeding him with a more costly female, a choc albino, snow or jungle for example. Having asked in stores I have only found out that they don't breed an expensive morph with a common...so i don't know what outcomes I would get. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

:2thumb:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

The enigma gene cropped up as an apparently random mutation in the breeding group belonging to the Bells in the USA, far as I'm aware.

Your SHCT male would probably be best used paired to another animal that has Hypo as an ingredient - that will help you retain the hypo and tangerine look. A Sunglow (Hypo albino) would be a good choice if you like them - but you won't get any Sunglow offspring in the first generation unless your male is (unbeknownst to you) het for Albino. What you could expect is hypo tangerines het albino in the first generation.


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. 

Does that mean that it would be a waste of time mixing him with anything other than a hypo? mack snow would be cool, but i already have a high yellow female and was hoping that breeding him with a different morph (one thats not yellow) would produce nice offspring.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

High yellow is a good combination, actually - you see, your SHCT has been selectively bred to enhance the yellows and oranges, so any of his offspring will be yellower than normals. It's a bit of a waste of that selective breeding to use him to try to produce not-yellow babies (and it probably wouldn't be very successful, either!)


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

That narrows own my choice a bit. I'm looking at moving him in with the other female, but want another female in aswell so she doesn't take all the abuse.

I got my boy from a shop that had juvi males in the same tank - eep - so I'm wary he might be agressive towards other leos to start with, what do you think? 

I'm live between Barnsley and Sheffield and have purchased my female from the Snake Shop, so want to find a non-related female to go with them. Do you know any reputable breeders?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Try Snakes 'n' Adders in Sheffield. Chaz will probably have some very nice leos in stock.

He may well be aggressive to start with - and one thing to keep in mind is that mating behaviour DOES involve biting.

TBH, I don't house my males with my females any more; I found that the girls didn't keep weight on because they were constantly harassed to breed.


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Brill, thanks very much for your help!


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Hiya,

just seen your post and would recommend a trip to Snakes 'n' Adders in Sheffield.

Always great advice, a good chat there should help you decide.

Also, remember to quarantine any new reps, recommended minimum time before putting them in together is 3 months. Just to be safe ! : victory:
Also, a lot of people don't recommend keeping males in with females constantly, even if theres more than a 1 male to 1 female ratio. Although others have groups of say 3 females to one male and seem to get it working. My personal option is to keep my females together (2 to a viv) once quarantined, with my male(s!) seperate and kept alone.
Then introduce the male to the female 'as and when required' for want of a better phrase ! males can get a bit annoying and stress females by constantly wanting to mate... Just my thoughts, let us know how you decide to plan things....


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Ha - Ssthisto beat me too it !!!
Great minds and all that though I reckon !

Chaz is very good, got my lads corn snake off him at his old shop and he wouldn't just sell me the snake and set up until I'd done some proper research. Very good advice in my opinion.

If it wasn't so far from me I reckon I'd be in their every week, sure he can offer advice for you and sort out a v good leo for your Super Hypo.

I've got a female SHCT and plan to breed her with my tremper albino male next year when she's big enough...So good luck. ​


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi BRO,

I actually have been in to see Chaz before now for leo's, the male I have i got from him for my partner (and also ecause he was struggling for space and having to keep him with another male)...

My male is a gorgeous hypo CT baldy and I would buy from him again if i could be certain they were not realted...not sure how i would be?

Am certain of getting a Hybino female for with him now, thanks Ssthisto!

AND SUCCESS!!! A couple hours ago i introduced my male, Oz to my female, Willow, and he wasted no time - seems he's a born natural! My female seemed rather happy to shut her eyes and relax. Managed to get a pic of the moment - just don't know how to post ......or if that should be posted :whistling2:


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

go on - post !!! :2thumb:

Use a photobucket account, I think there's a sticky about it - possibly in the photo section...

Congrats on the pairing, keep us updated on how you get on now !


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Stick it in the 18+ section !!!


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

lol, will have a read see if i can work out how to post it.


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Well I tried getting onto 18+ but its set to private - I can't post on it. 

However, I have sussed pic's, so here's my boy, Oz:










and here is Willow, my pretty girly:










The pics arent very recent but still. If anyone can work out 18+ or finds out where best to post mating pics, am happy to put up or pm.


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

Rachey88 said:


> Well I tried getting onto 18+ but its set to private - I can't post on it.
> 
> . If anyone can work out 18+ or finds out where best to post mating pics, am happy to put up or pm.


I think you'll find funky was pulling your leg about the 18+, he was refering to the content of the pic:whistling2:

FUNKY your bad


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## Rachey88 (Feb 2, 2009)

Shame...would be an interesting discussion are :blush: lol.


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