# Oh hello mr 20gallon!



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Found a space for the spare 20gallon.

What to put it in it? I'm thinking a pair of dwarf cichlids.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Anyway you scumbags, I'm doing an amazon blackwater tank. All posiitoned and ready to get started.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Could have had shell dwellers, goby's, dwarf/red eye puffers...So are you putting some appistogramma's in there?
I have a brackish 20 gal will some bumblebee goby's and a dragon goby.:2thumb:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Sir!!! Captain Scumbag reporting for duty, SIR!!! We are still waiting for Captain Obvious and Captain Bumblef*ck to return , Sir. How may I be of assistance in the meantime? :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:

I think Amazon Blackwater sounds like a great idea but I actually think you might be able to do a little more than a pair of Dwarfs. Perhaps some bottom-feeders (unless ur planning to breed) to add to the mix. Not very familiar w/ that type of set-up but I do know Gourami and Angelfish are compatible tank-mates w/ Dwarf Cichlids, especially GBRs.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Sir!!! Captain Scumbag reporting for duty, SIR!!! We are still waiting for Captain Obvious and Captain Bumblef*ck to return , Sir. How may I be of assistance in the meantime? :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> I think Amazon Blackwater sounds like a great idea but I actually think you might be able to do a little more than a pair of Dwarfs. Perhaps some bottom-feeders (unless ur planning to breed) to add to the mix. Not very familiar w/ that type of set-up but I do know Gourami and Angelfish are compatible tank-mates w/ Dwarf Cichlids, especially GBRs.


angelfish, 20gallons, doesnt sound like a great plan. also, a lot of gourami would need larger than 20gallons. you may not be saying they will go in this set-up, just a quick warning though that thats how it reads :2thumb:

looking forward to pics once this is up and running :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I was thinking just a pair of dwarfs, I like to understock, makes things easier IMO.

Fluval 205 good for this size?


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

Angelfish are good with dwarf cichlids but not in a 20gallon.

Heres some good info on black water
South American Blackwater Biotope Aquarium Setup


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I was thinking just a pair of dwarfs, I like to understock, makes things easier IMO.
> 
> Fluval 205 good for this size?


It's exactly double what You will need....great over-kill if you don't mind spending $130 on a filter, which is double what a HOB rated to 40 gallons would cost. I honestly think a Fluval 205 is going to have so much flow it will shoot the water up and out of your 20 gallon. I know from owning Fluvals that they are far more capable of filtering more water then what they read on the box. 

Personally, I'd get something a little less expensive and use the money I saved on pimping the tank or something like that. The's no way in Zeus's BUTT-HOLE a pair of Dwarf Cichlids will ever need the force of a Fluval 205 in a 20 gallon tank.....lol. It might actually prevent them from spawning and if they do, it will suck up the babies.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh, great. Lucky I didn't order one then.

:blush:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

This would probably suit your 20 gallon much better. It's actually rated for 50 gallon aquariums, but the water intake/outflow is not NEARLY as powerful as the Fluval 205. I have both filters and I can vouch that the Penguin 200 (HOB) would be much more suited to power a smaller tank w/ heavy decor and excessive filtration requirements withOUT shooting water over the sides, without disturbing a nest of wigglers in the substrate, without sucking up babies into the intake and will still provide you with over twice the filtration you were looking for. Besides, anytime you breed, ALWAYS cover the intake w/ a piece of Nylon and a rubberband/wire-tie until they are big enough to survive on their own in a separate tank. Only $30.. Check it out: Penguin 200 W/BIO-Wheel

If that's too much filtration for you, try the Penguin 150, rated up to 30 gallons, which would still probably suit a 20 gallon w/ a pair of Dwarfs rather well. Still 50% turnover than you need, but 50% less than you wanted. Your choice, Bro


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Make it brackish and get a F8, you know you want too! :whistling2:


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

_jake_ said:


> Make it brackish and get a F8, you know you want too! :whistling2:


What's an F8 jake?


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## Lucky Eddie (Oct 7, 2009)

jme2049 said:


> What's an F8 jake?


Figure of Eight puffer.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

No.

This is going to look awesome. Just waiting for the sand to settle and bits to arrive.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

Lucky Eddie said:


> Figure of Eight puffer.


Cool.



What fish you planning on putting in there? also what are the dimensions of the tank?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Who me?

It's whatever a 20 gal is! Well I was thinking of cardinal tetras, but I already have a tank of neons.....It needs to be region specific obvs.


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## Lucky Eddie (Oct 7, 2009)

How about some pencils?

I have a Rio 300 with trifasciatus pencils, plus purple emperors.

Not a Neon or cardinal in sight!!!!!!!!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh good call!


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> No.
> 
> This is going to look awesome. Just waiting for the sand to settle and bits to arrive.


Fish without personality:whistling2:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

_jake_ said:


> Fish without personality:whistling2:



Nah....it's one of those fish that turn invisible
:lol2:


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

20g = 1 pair of convicts


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> 20g = 1 pair of convicts



LOL....not if they spawn......


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

a 20gs normaly 2.5ft long with plenty of hiding places fake plants if they spawned the female should have space to get away from the male and you could give the fry to local aquarium shops (most will offer you credit for them) a nice little project


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> a 20gs normaly 2.5ft long with plenty of hiding places fake plants if they spawned the female should have space to get away from the male and you could give the fry to local aquarium shops (most will offer you credit for them) a nice little project


But the fry need 2-4 months to reach a size that most LFS will accept (1-1.5") Usually in SA/CA species, the male will start killing babies around 4 months because he wants to spawn again. I breed Convict on occassion, but I keep the pair in a 30 gallon and remove either the parents or babies after 4 months so the babies will have room to grow. A nursery is only suitable until the babies reach a certain size, depending on the capacity of the clutch. 

LOL, my current nursery is a 55 gallon tank for my baby Gold Saums and a few Jaguar Cichlids.....even still they seem to grow rather slow to me and there is only about 60-70 one-inch fry in the tank. I keep thinking it's not big enough, but all the LFS , Ma and Pa and corporate alike all are amazed when I tell them my nursery is so big ( in their eyes)...probably cuz LFS like to cramp too many fish in one tank.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't think Convicts are blackwater species anyway and there will be no plants apart from floating.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a small, planted tetra tank...

is it a 20 high or long?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

HABU said:


> a small, planted tetra tank...
> 
> is it a 20 high or long?


Long.

No plants, too dark.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Penquin tetras? not sure if they're from your specific area. Or hatchet fish (not sure if they're even from Amazon :$)


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## Lucky Eddie (Oct 7, 2009)

HABU said:


> image


Quality! :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

This is what I have so far.....eeerrieeeeee...


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> This is what I have so far.....eeerrieeeeee...
> 
> 
> image


OOOOHHH that looks nice , you need something multicoloured in there  looks great : victory:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Looks kinda big for a 20 U.S. gallon....what are the dimensions? It looks good so far for Amazon Blackwater.....you have obviously done your homework.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> Looks kinda big for a 20 U.S. gallon....what are the dimensions?


Pfft, knowing your track record :whistling2:

ETA: it's looking awesome Morgan!


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

I think a nice grouip of Beacons would look good with a pair of Dwarfs .

Very underrated fish Ocellifer .


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

AshMashMash said:


> Pfft, knowing your track record :whistling2:
> 
> ETA: it's looking awesome Morgan!



Wow...i made miniscule mistake in 6 months......do you really think the 2" in height and 7 gallons really makes that much or a difference....LMAO!!


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> Wow...i made miniscule mistake in 6 months......do you really think the 2" in height and 7 gallons really makes that much or a difference....LMAO!!


LOL










You need to calm down Mr... _"Calm down dear! It's only a... ...forum_!"


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Most Annoying Web Page


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

come on guys lets not turn this into another argument that web page really was anoying mmm! its funny it wont let me close it :gasp: 

looking great by the way freeman i just love the look of it very nice


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> come on guys lets not turn this into another argument that web page really was anoying mmm! its funny it wont let me close it :gasp:
> 
> looking great by the way freeman i just love the look of it very nice


Nah, we're just messin' around


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Most Annoying Web Page


 
where the hell did you find that page victor as it still wont close frigging annoying :devil:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> where the hell did you find that page victor as it still wont close frigging annoying :devil:




r o f l m a o!!!!! Wtf??? why is my caps-lock disabled?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

It's about 20 gallons!

75cm x 45cm x 30cm. I think. Maybe it's 80cm long.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> Looks kinda big for a 20 U.S. gallon....what are the dimensions? It looks good so far for Amazon Blackwater.....you have obviously done your homework.


Yeah did a bit of research, tbf it's probably the easiest biotop to set up.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Aquarium dimensions - reference

with aquariums, volume is everything... i can never understand why folks lay out those dimensions... as if we are all math whizs...

you think it's about 20 u.s. gallons?

hmmm...

dark eh?... something subdued...











when it gets big you can either sell it or upgrade to a larger tank...:2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, I think. It's not really hard to guess the size of the tank based on the dimensions.

It's a 29 US.....24 Uk. 4 off, not bad.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

Looking great Morg.:2thumb: 

Have you considered a Rope fish?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

jme2049 said:


> Looking great Morg.:2thumb:
> 
> Have you considered a Rope fish?


Looks like a wang.


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Looks like a wang.


Haha! What's wrong with that?


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

jme2049 said:


> Haha! What's wrong with that?


Jamie likes a bit of wang:whistling2:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I Look like a wang.



FIXED  :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## komodoman (Jan 10, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Found a space for the spare 20gallon.
> 
> What to put it in it? I'm thinking a pair of dwarf cichlids.



Umm! er! :whip:

You thought about a couple of Black Caiman? : victory:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

komodoman said:


> Umm! er! :whip:
> 
> You thought about a couple of Black Caiman? : victory:



Gee, could you reccomend something a little bigger perhaps? I think Black Caiman might get a little lonely in a 20 gallon tank, you kow.....all that extra space for him to move around and all. Perhaps TWO Black Caimans would be more suitable instead.

Man.... i never DID get over how bad I wanted a Peleosuchus palpebrosis....I thought it would fade away, but 5 years later and I STILL find myself wanting one of those Red-eyed Demon-Crocs....they are soooooo bad-ass looking. Even after keeping Spectacled Caiman and American Alligators, it still didn't quell my desires for a Curvier's


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

HABU said:


> Aquarium dimensions - reference
> 
> with aquariums, volume is everything... i can never understand why folks lay out those dimensions... as if we are all math whizs...
> 
> ...


I have a 2 foot arowana to go in my 500 UK gallon tank. !!

The tank is 6 inches by 6 inches by 320 feet high. Is that OK?
:whistling2:



@Morgan....gouramis....there's plenty of superb gouramis that will fit nicely in a 20 gallon tank.
Banded Chocolates are super little fish and much easier to keep alive than the normal chocolates.
Although not SA, they can work nicely with some dwarf cichlids.

Or....how about making it a specimen tank with a show-quality banjo catfish.  

ian


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

igmillichip said:


> I have a 2 foot arowana to go in my 500 UK gallon tank. !!
> 
> The tank is 6 inches by 6 inches by 320 feet high. Is that OK?
> :whistling2:
> ...



Now THAT was funny.....I always make it a point for people to post as much info as possible. IMO, when you post your tank size, it would always be best if you posted LxWxH, as well as volume of water capacity in UK gallon, Liters AND U.S. gallons considering the large diversity of cultures on the site. If someone has a 4 foot tank, that could mean it's a 48"x13"x18.5" (approximately 50 U.S gallons) yet it could also be 48"x24"x24" (approximately 120 U.S. gallons)...which is a HUGE difference and almost 2.5 x bigger.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Now THAT was funny.....I always make it a point for people to post as much info as possible. IMO, when you post your tank size, it would always be best if you posted LxWxH, as well as volume of water capacity in UK gallon, Liters AND U.S. gallons considering the large diversity of cultures on the site. If someone has a 4 foot tank, that could mean it's a 48"x13"x18.5" (approximately 50 U.S gallons) yet it could also be 48"x24"x24" (approximately 120 U.S. gallons)...which is a HUGE difference and almost 2.5 x bigger.


 
why not LxHxW


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

berry1 said:


> why not LxHxW




The answer lies HERE: Most Annoying Web Page


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> The answer lies HERE: Most Annoying Web Page


 
im shore ooh! no im not clicking on that link i had to click through 150 times before it would close :devil:


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

berry1 said:


> im shore ooh! no im not clicking on that link i had to click through 150 times before it would close :devil:


As if - why didn't you just close down everything else you had open and turn the computer off, and then turn it back on and start afresh!


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

because i had about 20 other pages open with diff firework shops and i was comparing prices so i would have to of bookmarked every page anyway i didnt no it was 150 clicks i just kept clicking and within about 5 mins i had finished still anoying thought :devil: : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

komodoman said:


> Umm! er! :whip:
> 
> You thought about a couple of Black Caiman? : victory:


I was thinking of putting a 40 gallon tank in there.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> FIXED  :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Tru dat.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

igmillichip said:


> @Morgan....gouramis....there's plenty of superb gouramis that will fit nicely in a 20 gallon tank.
> Banded Chocolates are super little fish and much easier to keep alive than the normal chocolates.
> Although not SA, they can work nicely with some dwarf cichlids.
> 
> ...


 
Gouramis aren't from SA blackwater.

The only catfish I like are red tails!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

South American Blackwater Biotope Aquarium Setup

http://joshday.com/blackwatertank.htm


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Fluval 205 is HUGGGGEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just about fits in the cabinet.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

in the u.s. here most all tanks are standard sizes... there aren't too many custom ones...
Aquarium Sizes and Weights - An Aquarium Sizes and Weights Chart
like when you guy milk...

like a liter of milk... you don't say give me a 3 by 3 by 8 inch carton of milk...

water volume is more important than actual dimensions... although dimensions are the second most important thing...

sorry about that mr freeman... i just had to get that off my chest...

you have a 29 gallon eh?

that's a great tank size... not too big but not tiny either... lots of things i can do with a 29... good viewing area... tall and wide...



see?... by merely saying 29 i know the size... it's always the same... unless you have some funky custom job... 29 gallon-30" x 12" x 18"

seems to me that standard sizes bt manufacturers make sense... who can do all that math in their heads anyway?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Fluval 205 is HUGGGGEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just about fits in the cabinet.











great filter!
i had a couple of 405s...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, just got it set up. Add a bit of old water from the current tank, get that cycle kicking in.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah, just got it set up. Add a bit of old water from the current tank, get that cycle kicking in.


 
got any cultured/old media? like a piece of sponge from the old, running filter?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah that's what I was going to use.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah that's what I was going to use.


cool well itll be cycled very quickly prob less than a week : victory:

ive been tailing this thread for awhile and not really got stuck in so fish mmm! how about 

1 discus
5-10 neons (its possable)

or

29g you could do a pair of angels 

or some other good fish are

hatchets

dwarth cichlids

corys are great bottom feeders

blood fin tetras

blind cave fish

loads of other tetras


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

the 205 is sweet i have it running on one of my saltwater tanks and it really does a good job also for freshwater theirs a huge choice of medias that can fit in the filter i just have it full of live rock thought :blush:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

When ever I get it up and running......


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## AnythingWithAShell (Apr 14, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> When ever I get it up and running......


Oh no  

Filter problems? What's going on?

Edit: Never mind, just saw your other thread :whistling2:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

berry1 said:


> cool well itll be cycled very quickly prob less than a week : victory:
> 
> ive been tailing this thread for awhile and not really got stuck in so fish mmm! how about
> 
> ...


arent discus supposed to thrive in groups? i wouldnt think a single would do as well.

a pair of angels in a tank this size i would say is a bad idea. it would be very cramped.

there are some good ideas here though when you do get it up and running :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I would love some Angels, probably my favourite tropical fish right now.

Will probably move the 5 tetras once it's cycled then see what I fancy.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> arent discus supposed to thrive in groups? i wouldnt think a single would do as well.
> 
> a pair of angels in a tank this size i would say is a bad idea. it would be very cramped.
> 
> there are some good ideas here though when you do get it up and running :2thumb:


 
ive seen discus kept as single fish with plenty of cover which in a black water set up their would be plenty of cover they can thrive pretty well

a pair of angels in a 29g would no where near be cramped its almost the same as having a oscar in a 100g tank if we all thought like that we would be having a min tank size of 250g or more for a single oscar get what i mean :whistling2:


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

the reason angel fish look so big is because of their huge fins and with them being so long i agree they do look bigger than they are but really their only about 4" max body size the rest is finage 

so working it out the tank would be around 7 time the fishes lengh i would say thats perfectly fine :2thumb:


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

any way good look with your tank morgan : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm pretty new to fish, not sure I'd want to go with Angels.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm pretty new to fish, not sure I'd want to go with Angels.


just go with what you feels right :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

African cichlids in my small SA tank?

Going woods today, hopefully find some mice Oak branches.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

HABU = why the hell would you put malawi cichlids in a black water set up in a 29g you could keep smaller species but they require completely different water pars than a black water set up like they need a very very high ph not far off marine


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