# Venomous snakebite



## ctw271188 (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm a tortoise keeper not a DWA keeper, but I'm currently studying an MSc course at Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine and we have done a lot of stuff on venomous snakes and snakebite in Africa and I thought some of you may be interested to read a little about it as you may well keep some of the snakes yourselves! 
I've been to the venom unit a couple of times now and have seen loads of the snakes there like spitting cobras, Echis carpet vipers, Cerastes cerastes, green and black mambas, rattlesnakes etc. They demonstrated how to milk the snakes for venom using green mambas (very lively!) and Echis which was really interesting. We've also done a couple of lab experiments with different venoms such as Echis, Naja, Bitis, Cerastes etc and looking at the effectiveness of the different antivenoms available. You can PM me if you're interested in any more!

Alistair Reid Venom Unit - Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine
WHO | Snakebite


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## Shane D (Feb 22, 2012)

Im not a venomous snake owner but was wondering if say for example an owner of say a king cobra, could he/she purchase the antivenom in case of worse case scenario?


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## ctw271188 (Mar 9, 2012)

In all honesty I'm not sure about the ability to buy AV in the UK, I dont think so but its not something that we covered or was mentioned! Maybe a keeper of venomous snakes will comment as they will know more about it and have more experience than me


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## Shane D (Feb 22, 2012)

well i was only asking because if you owned a venomous snake here in Ireland and you got biten then you are pretty much bamboozled as the closest place with antivenom is liverpool and thats not exactly 2 mins away lol

just my opinion, be good if a person who owned venomous snakes was able to purchases antivenom in case of worse case scenario etc


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## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

antivenom isn't cheap and has a limited shelf life. like you say Liverpool is the place where nearly all the antivenoms are stocked so if its a bad bite its probably going to mean a trip in a helicopter.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Anti venom isn't available t buy in the UK. If someone is bitten, you need to call 999. They'll need to know the species of snake, where you were bitten, and where the snake originates. You can also inform LSTM that you were bitten, so tif needed, they can get the anivenom ready.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

First link says 125,000 die each year from snake bite. 

Second link says 20,000. :crazy:


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## ctw271188 (Mar 9, 2012)

Spuddy said:


> First link says 125,000 die each year from snake bite.
> 
> Second link says 20,000. :crazy:


The WHO generally base their figures on hospital records and official figures, and in most of these places especially rural Africa many people dont make it to hospital in time, either because they are too far away or use traditional methods first and then die and therefore go unaccounted for. Its probably around 90,000 or so, but yea it can be misleading depending where you read:lol2: 
If you read somewhere else you will probably get a different figure because its not really very well researched atm


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ctw271188 said:


> In all honesty I'm not sure about the ability to buy AV in the UK, I dont think so but its not something that we covered or was mentioned! Maybe a keeper of venomous snakes will comment as they will know more about it and have more experience than me


You can import it on the sly from thailand etc not many customers officers would have a clue wat it was and as far as i know there no legal standing in the uk at to why u cant own antivenine its no more dangerous than the snake ur buying it for if i remember rightly there was someone in scotland saying its a requirement to his licence he has his own supply on a thread not so long back


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## claireleone (Nov 4, 2011)

*DWA snake bite*



rigsby said:


> antivenom isn't cheap and has a limited shelf life. like you say Liverpool is the place where nearly all the antivenoms are stocked so if its a bad bite its probably going to mean a trip in a helicopter.


You know a mate of mine who was a keeper at a private collection in south of england was bitten very badly by a cotton mouth , this was 17 years ago now . He also had a heart murmur , and the hospital kept him stable whilst the anti venom was flown to them . Is this not the case anymore ? would they make the casualty travel to a hospital with a stock ?


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## claireleone (Nov 4, 2011)

*DWA snake bite*



ctw271188 said:


> The WHO generally base their figures on hospital records and official figures, and in most of these places especially rural Africa many people dont make it to hospital in time, either because they are too far away or use traditional methods first and then die and therefore go unaccounted for. Its probably around 90,000 or so, but yea it can be misleading depending where you read:lol2:
> If you read somewhere else you will probably get a different figure because its not really very well researched atm


Does that account for very remote villages that have no transport anyway ?


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## ctw271188 (Mar 9, 2012)

claireleone said:


> Does that account for very remote villages that have no transport anyway ?


Yes the 90,000 is including rural areas, and its worldwide. Different papers say different things tho, one said it could be 146,000 WW/year, others say a lot less so you dont really know. 90,000 could be way out, but its a figure that tends to crop up more.
Incidentally I'll be in a remote village near Lake Victoria, Kenya this time next week for my research project (non-snake related) and I have been warned there are quite a lot venomous snakes in the area! Will post pics if I get any but dont count on it!


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## claireleone (Nov 4, 2011)

*venomous snakebite*

I remember reading how some remote tribal people had been employed by am american company to collect royals , lots of them get bitten when out collecting . But pat the yanks on the back for paying the tribes peanuts :-(


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## McCase (Feb 10, 2010)

As mentioned earlier, you cant legally import antivenom into the UK without a license. Most importantly, a clinician is required to deliver the antivenom IV, and they are highly unlikely to inject you with a product you bring with you to hospital irrespective of whether it is the right antivenom or not. This is because they are liable for your care and will not inject a substance that you bring along to hospital. The clinician will follow the normal protocol where they contact their nearest poison centre and request the most appropriate antivenom for the bite. This is then usually driven on flashing blues to where the patient is!

For that reason there is little point in trying to buy your own antivenom. It is obviously very important to have the details of the species you are bitten by to give to the clinician. Think about having it printed on a card that you can take with you, in the event that you are suffering from the effects of the venom.


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