# poison dart frog



## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

I really want one i love them :flrt:

just wondering if anyone can give me some advice about how to handle (IF they can be handled) and how to keep them....

basically everything i need to know! haha

im not planning on getting one anytime soon as i will obviously do my research and such first. but this is the best place to come as everyone here knows thier stuff or has a bit of advice to offer.

thanks guys x


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Get a book lol There is sooo much to consider about dart frogs. D. _leucomelas _(Bumblebee dart frogs) and D. _auratus _(green and black d-frogs) are fantastic first choice dart frogs being bold and fairly large. With dart frogs it's a strictly, look but don't touch, not because they're poisonous, but because they are so delicate. They do best in as natural set-up as possible, but it can be done low cost and to be honest is part of the whole thing with dart frogs. Food is another consideration, being quite large, they can manage micro crickets but fruitflies are a good staple for smaller species, you can get ones that don't fly and are quite easy to rear. You'll probably want to stick to Dendrobates. They make a wonderful noise too  Have a look on Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper for ideas on different species, they're pretty costly too lol.
Just to add mixing species is not recommended for beginners, but you can get D. tincs (Dyeing DFs) in lots of different colours, making it look like you have lots of species


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

ohhh thanks for that im not botherd about cost to be honest when i get a pet i always want the best for it even if i do have to save a and wait a bit longer and im guessing its gonna be a good few months anyway sinnce christmas is coming up and im gonna be reseraching it a lot


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> ohhh thanks for that im not botherd about cost to be honest when i get a pet i always want the best for it even if i do have to save a and wait a bit longer and im guessing its gonna be a good few months anyway sinnce christmas is coming up and im gonna be reseraching it a lot


They're amazing animals lol And tbh getting just one is a bit of a waste of time, you could have a go at breeding to, get some more into the hobby


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

i might do just that 

how big / small does the enclosure have to be and am i right in thinking i can get an exo terra?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> i might do just that
> 
> how big / small does the enclosure have to be and am i right in thinking i can get an exo terra?


Yeah exo terras work well. Bigger the better really to reduce fighting and add lots of visual barriers, depending on how many frogs of course. Oh also hygene is very important.  Get sexed pairs, size isn't so important.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

ah cool okay.

do they need heating or anything?

sorry for all the qs x


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

About 26c during the day, maybe 20c during the night and a humidity of 90%. This is off the top of my head so will need to be double checked lol


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

okay im gonna do proper research anyway i just want a good idea on the basics befre i get myself into it haha.

i think i like the D. auratus moretoo bad you cant mix them  haha

what is this frog? i know its a dart just wondering if you can get colours like that?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> okay im gonna do proper research anyway i just want a good idea on the basics befre i get myself into it haha.
> 
> i think i like the D. auratus moretoo bad you cant mix them  haha
> 
> ...


Don't know off the top of my head lol


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

ohh its bloody gorgeous anyway! haha

thanks for your help i must go to bed now its near 5am and im not even tired. hopefully if i just lie there ill bore myself to sleep haha.

thanks for anyone else that helps too x


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> ohh its bloody gorgeous anyway! haha
> 
> thanks for your help i must go to bed now its near 5am and im not even tired. hopefully if i just lie there ill bore myself to sleep haha.
> 
> thanks for anyone else that helps too x


G'night! Join a dart frog forum, there's some good ones out there.


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> what is this frog? i know its a dart just wondering if you can get colours like that?
> 
> http://www.casarioblanco.com/poison-dart-frog.jpg


 
This frog was formally know Oophaga pumilio 'Blue jeans', although i think it has now been reclassified. I used to own some, they were very cool frogs but not generally recommended for beginners as they are quite expensive in comparison to other beginner frogs such as Leucomelas.


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

John did you manage to breed the blue jeans?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> This frog was formally know Oophaga pumilio 'Blue jeans', although i think it has now been reclassified.


still is mate, its the strawbery posion dart frog ranges through out the rainforests of Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama.

Kirstyink Have you ever kept frogs before as PDFS are not the best place for a beginer to start.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Does anyone know any good resourses for M. aurantiaca apart from dartfrog?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

All i know about M.aurantiaca is they are critically endagered and are appendix 2. Do people even keep these?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

knighty said:


> All i know about M.aurantiaca is they are critically endagered and are appendix 2. Do people even keep these?


Yeah. I know a couple of people, always got them from Darfrog. There's a fair few in captivity, might be an idea to go the the European shows. I seem to remember Dartfrog saying that they give a percentage to a mantella conservation charity.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

knighty said:


> still is mate, its the strawbery posion dart frog ranges through out the rainforests of Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama.
> 
> Kirstyink Have you ever kept frogs before as PDFS are not the best place for a beginer to start.


no i havent kept them personally but i used to look after them when i worked in a pet shop.

i have stated that im going to be doing months of research aswell as saving for the frogs.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

LiamRatSnake said:


> Yeah. I know a couple of people, always got them from Darfrog. There's a fair few in captivity, might be an idea to go the the European shows. I seem to remember Dartfrog saying that they give a percentage to a mantella conservation charity.


How do people keep apendix 2 without paper work? i had a fish that was apendix 2 and that required a certificate to prove it was CB?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

knighty said:


> How do people keep apendix 2 without paper work? i had a fish that was apendix 2 and that required a certificate to prove it was CB?


They might have paperwork, although I have no idea if they need it. I'll google it.


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

Loads of people keep M.aurantiaca, i have a pair i know somone that has loads of young for sale at one point. And the rate they have babys i dont see no need for WC ones in fact never seen any WC M.aurantiaca.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

KJ Exotics said:


> Loads of people keep M.aurantiaca, i have a pair i know somone that has loads of young for sale at one point. And the rate they have babys i dont see no need for WC ones in fact never seen any WC M.aurantiaca.


do the CBs not need certification?
i think its bad how there is all these rules to protect endagered fish, mamals and reptiles but nothing for frogs!!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

kirstyink said:


> no i havent kept them personally but i used to look after them when i worked in a pet shop.
> 
> i have stated that im going to be doing months of research aswell as saving for the frogs.


looking after a species in a shop with a team of people is different to caring for them on your own. My personal advice would be to get some amphibian experince first.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

knighty said:


> looking after a species in a shop with a team of people is different to caring for them on your own. My personal advice would be to get some amphibian experince first.



i didnt say it was.
listen im getting the bloody dart frog, im gonna do my research how many times must i say im not getting them for a good few months as in next year!

and how am i meant to get experience if i cant bloody have them without having experience.

your either gonna help me and give me some pointers or your not.:whip:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

kirstyink said:


> i didnt say it was.
> listen im getting the bloody dart frog, im gonna do my research how many times must i say im not getting them for a good few months as in next year!
> 
> and how am i meant to get experience if i cant bloody have them without having experience.
> ...


I dont personally care about anything than the well being of the frogs and them falling into inexperienced hands.

books and research dont make up for lack of experience. PDFs deteriate very quickly and need alot more care than something like a WTF.

To be that arrogant that you are ignoring my first advice and telling me "im getting the bloody dart frog" shows me that the only advice you are going to listen to is the stuff you want to here. If you get them good luck, but look back on this thread when it goes wrong and tell me i wasnt right. As for experince the idea is to care for hardier species first and then work your way towards the more fragile species such as PDFs and RETFs.

Ask any experienced keeper and they will all tell you the same, Darts are not for noobs........

as for some pointers, when you know which PDF you are looking to keep it will make life easier to TRY and help you.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

knighty said:


> I dont personally care about anything than the well being of the frogs and them falling into inexperienced hands.
> 
> books and research dont make up for lack of experience. PDFs deteriate very quickly and need alot more care than something like a WTF.
> 
> ...



ive said which one i wanted, and i would never put an animals life at risk and i am spending time looking into it and learning things and saving up as much as i can to get it the best of everything, you havent got a clue about me i asked for help and you basicaly told me i couldnt have one.

thanks to those who helped and who have pm`d me with advice.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

never told you you could not i told you there arnt for noobs.

good luck with it i am not waisting my time on you, there are many others on here that are prepared to listen and take advice from me, and not blowing my own trumpet but i DO know what im talking about.

Get ya PDF and go to the people that tell you what you want to here when it all goes wrong


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

knighty said:


> never told you you could not i told you there arnt for noobs.
> 
> good luck with it i am not waisting my time on you, there are many others on here that are prepared to listen and take advice from me, and not blowing my own trumpet but i DO know what im talking about.
> 
> Get ya PDF and go to the people that tell you what you want to here when it all goes wrong



im not listening to what i want to hear im just not taking advice to someone who is calling me a noob.

im willing to put the effort into them and the time and to give them the right environment no matter what it is, i dont want another other phibs i love these little guys and have a keen interest in them.

people can have what ever that want as long as they research before hand and get help and have the time for it.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

kirstyink said:


> im not listening to what i want to hear im just not taking advice to someone who is calling me a noob.


like it or not if you have never kept an amphibian before you are a noob when it comes to them..... Fact



kirstyink said:


> people can have what ever that want as long as they research before hand and get help and have the time for it.


so wrong im affriad. ok ther is no law stopping them but the succes rate is a lot lower. I have an interest in big snakes but i have *LISTENED* to the advice i was given and am going to start with some thing smaller and easyier to care for first.

Why do people role up in the phibs section and start barking, go to the DWA and they soon put people in there place with no stuborn arogant responses.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

knighty said:


> like it or not if you have never kept an amphibian before you are a noob when it comes to them..... Fact
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i just meant using the word noob is sad.

and i have a national diploma in animal care an management ive worked with pretty much everything except phibs but learnt a lot about them, i know about PDFs but i just dont know what id need to keep them, such as the set up/lighting etc etc.


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

do you like fruit files? because your going to be spending most of you time looking after them rather than the dart frogs, I know I do!

... first you keep ff's then the frogs!


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

FrogNick said:


> do you like fruit files? because your going to be spending most of you time looking after them rather than the dart frogs, I know I do!
> 
> ... first you keep ff's then the frogs!


i dont mind them, i had a colony in work haha.
i have to feed my leo crix which i think are way worse!


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

FrogNick said:


> do you like fruit files? because your going to be spending most of you time looking after them rather than the dart frogs, I know I do!
> 
> ... first you keep ff's then the frogs!


I cant stress that, keeping fruit files is the key to keeping dartfrogs. 
So try and get some exp on keeping and breeding them, while building up your viv. 
Also what dart do you want (i cant work out which one you want). have you got a viv already or not ?


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

KJ Exotics said:


> I cant stress that, keeping fruit files is the key to keeping dartfrogs.
> So try and get some exp on keeping and breeding them, while building up your viv.
> Also what dart do you want (i cant work out which one you want). have you got a viv already or not ?


D auratusi havent got anything yet, i want to research it all properly first and then slowly get everything together then eventually get the frogs when things where ready.

im not getting them until next year as most of my money is being saved for christmas so i have a long way to go, i just came here for some tips and advice.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

kirstyink said:


> i just meant using the word noob is sad.
> 
> and i have a national diploma in animal care an management ive worked with pretty much everything except phibs but learnt a lot about them, i know about PDFs but i just dont know what id need to keep them, such as the set up/lighting etc etc.



ok the word noob is just internet slang, its easier than writing inexperienced, new to this or what ever.

A national diploma, what use is it if you dont have it in what you want to keep?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

now on a serious level.

how many do you wish to keep?
which species is it?
whats the budget?


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

how many do you wish to keep? *around 4 or 5, maybe more if the tank size is appropriate*.
which species is it? *D. auratus*
whats the budget? *i dont really have one i was going to see what i needed then save up until i could afford the best things*


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

For a pair of Tincs, Leucs or Auratus i would say at least 40cm cubed or a 2 foot Aquarium.

LECA for drainage, then weed blocker then your eco soil mix, and a good selection of live plants i would say at least half the viv should be coverd in plants. Temp room is fine 20 - 25C, Full Spec lighting for the plants, small amount of ventilation and a small water section.

Buy this book *Poison Dart Frogs (Complete Herp Care - Sihler, Amand N)*


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

I must say if you have your heart set on something, it's not really fair to get animals you don't really want, just to use as stepping stones. As long as all research is done and you know exactly what you're doing, then go for it. I'd obviously stick to simpler species of dart frogs. Get lots of books, join a DF forum, get learning and what's the problem? No other species of frog will give you the experience/knowledge you need to keep darts.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

FrogNick said:


> For a pair of Tincs, Leucs or Auratus i would say at least 40cm cubed or a 2 foot Aquarium.
> 
> LECA for drainage, then weed blocker then your eco soil mix, and a good selection of live plants i would say at least half the viv should be coverd in plants. Temp room is fine 20 - 25C, Full Spec lighting for the plants, small amount of ventilation and a small water section.
> 
> Buy this book *Poison Dart Frogs (Complete Herp Care - Sihler, Amand N)*


I've got that book, it's pretty straight forward and to the point


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

FrogNick said:


> For a pair of Tincs, Leucs or Auratus i would say at least 40cm cubed or a 2 foot Aquarium.
> 
> LECA for drainage, then weed blocker then your eco soil mix, and a good selection of live plants i would say at least half the viv should be coverd in plants. Temp room is fine 20 - 25C, Full Spec lighting for the plants, small amount of ventilation and a small water section.
> 
> Buy this book *Poison Dart Frogs (Complete Herp Care - Sihler, Amand N)*


thanks ill have a look for the book, would 45cm cubed exo terra be okay for 3 do you think?



LiamRatSnake said:


> I must say if you have your heart set on something, it's not really fair to get animals you don't really want, just to use as stepping stones. As long as all research is done and you know exactly what you're doing, then go for it. I'd obviously stick to simpler species of dart frogs. Get lots of books, join a DF forum, get learning and what's the problem? No other species of frog will give you the experience/knowledge you need to keep darts.


my point exactly. :2thumb:


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

Yeah that should be fine.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

thanks for the help  i thought id need something way bigger than that 

x


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> thanks for the help  i thought id need something way bigger than that
> 
> x


Bigger is always better if you can afford it


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

LiamRatSnake said:


> Bigger is always better if you can afford it


ohh okay well i dont mind coz i will save up anyway.

is taller better?


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

Dart frogs don’t need a huge amount of space, they are territorial that’s when you need allot more space but a trio is fine.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

kirstyink said:


> ohh okay well i dont mind coz i will save up anyway.
> 
> is taller better?


Height is always good, some species climb more than others  Get learning about bromiliads and ferns and the rest of it


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

Auratus are mostly ground dwelling but they do climb, go with the 45 x 60cm height exo you can make it look really nice with broms and creeping fig.


for breeding:



Cocohut

35mm Film canisters


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

and be prepared to spend the rest off your free cash on them....i started with 2.....now i have about 17


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

philbaines said:


> and be prepared to spend the rest off your free cash on them....i started with 2.....now i have about 17


What you got now phil ?


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

i got...
4 asain tree frogs
5 fire belly toads
2 dendrobate azureus
2 fire frogs
5 tricolor

and a few more due to come


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## RipplySquirrel (Jul 21, 2009)

Im in the same boat as kirsty here, im looking into getting a trio of these 2 females one male and im doing some deep research as im aware the speices of fib require alot of TLC and as previously mentioned their incredibly complex diet of flies and crixs. 

I have set aside myself a budget of around £700-800 to come up with a serious terrarium at around 4-5 ft long, including rain systems, waterfalls, 2 shallow pools and a huge variety of living plants to make the little critters feel at home, this is going to be my thing now so im not scooping out, so ill be keeping an eye on this thread for more info as and when it comes.

All PMs greatly appreciated

cheers

kyle


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## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

If you going to be setting up a big display viv it would be worth to buy a smaller aquarium\exo and try your hand at setting that up you will learn alot from your mistakes which you dont want to do i such a large enclosure.

things to think about:

Background: expanding foam, treefern, coco, epiweb ?
Water: water cycle, LECA or Egg crate for drainage
plants: mosses what type and where in the viv they will grow, broms attached to the background and or wood.

I have a post on here how i did my background to get ideas what im talking about.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/353701-your-poisen-arrow-frog-set-4.html


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## RipplySquirrel (Jul 21, 2009)

FrogNick said:


> If you going to be setting up a big display viv it would be worth to buy a smaller aquarium\exo and try your hand at setting that up you will learn alot from your mistakes which you dont want to do i such a large enclosure.
> 
> things to think about:
> 
> ...


 
wicked, cheers nick! i have already been thinking about this and have come up with some good ideas tbh if i dont say so myself , im making a mock up set-up with removable sides which will be fitting the final terrarium, i will then do all the dirty bits how i like the with expanding foam and silicone etc etc then once i have done that, remove the sides and hollow out the background once its 100% fully expanded and firm, place it on a sheet of PVC and make 3 filling holes for the eco earth/soil this will then be slid into the tank. This way i can make holes in the background from front to back and plant directly into the soil rather than the plants dying after 3 weeks on the foam, and yes i have come up with suitable layers for the bottom e.g, 2" PVC pipe with holes and groves for water flow and the egg crate on top, then a layer of weed matting, then a layer of clay balls, then another layer of weed matting then i would begin to build the eco earth ontop of that and sculpt it to my desired scene. As mentioned im putting in a couple of water falls, and i was going to do this by using a submerged pump under the egg crate (i then relised oh crap what if it broke) so i decided to make an external system where a submerged pump is in a tub of water beside the terrarium which pulls the water from a tap in the side of the tank to the desired pumping out points where the water fall would start in the terrarium itself. This tub would also sit the rain system pump, which i intend to make myself :2thumb: with a little help from the old man lols!

Im still thinking long and hard about this as once i have commited thats it, no going back, im still a noob when it comes to this big time so as always advice is greatly appreciated.

After this is making a suitable feeding schedule for them with dustings etc etc, this is my next port of call research wise :2thumb:

Cheers

Kyle


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

FrogNick said:


> If you going to be setting up a big display viv it would be worth to buy a smaller aquarium\exo and try your hand at setting that up you will learn alot from your mistakes which you dont want to do i such a large enclosure.


This is great advice. My exo got re-designed four times before I was happy with it.

I now plan on a huge project for next year when I have the time, the ultimate display, have too many other projects I'm working on right now.


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## kirstyink (Mar 6, 2009)

hmmm seems very time consuming, to be honest though i have all the time in the world right now, just not the money... yet.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

kirstyink said:


> hmmm seems very time consuming, to be honest though i have all the time in the world right now, just not the money... yet.


You'll get addicted. Trust me.


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## treefroglover (Nov 20, 2008)

Check out my pics on my page of my first dart frog viv. Got a pair of D.Tinc Azureus, then got bitten by the bug and have a young trio of Leucs now:blush:


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## RipplySquirrel (Jul 21, 2009)

aaa makes me want to do this even more everytime i look at these :mf_dribble:

thats it as soon as payday comes the dartfrog project is officialy underway!


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