# MBD - Metabolic Bone Disease Info



## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

I thought id write a thread on MBD seen as though its becoming more of an issue within reptiles.

*What is MBD?
*
First of all MBD stands for Metabolic Bone Disease. It is a very common and well recognized syndrome found in reptiles as well as other animals and people. Other names MBD can go by are fibrous osteodystrophy, osteomalacia, secondary nutritional hyperparathyroidism, osteoporosis, and rickets.But these are more genetic terms and most people will only see MBD from lack of calcium in diets. Many people believe MBD is caused by a calcium deficiency but it has more under laying causes and is more complex. 

*What causes MBD?*

The primary cause for MBD is a lack of calcium in the reptiles diet. Although reptiles can also be born with MBD if the mother has not received enough calcium whilst being gravid. 
Other causes include


Too littler calcium and too much phosphorus, ratio should be 2:1 and lack of d3 and other nutrients can prevent the absorbtion of calcium
. D3 can come in forms of UVA/UVB light or in powders such as nutrobal


Inadequate protein


Cool temperatures as they impair digestion and therefore calcium absorption.
 
MBD is a result from improper calcium to phrosphrus levels. When the calcium levels are pretty low the body has to try take calcium from somewhere else to compensate for example the bones. This makes them softer making them easier to break and fracture. Calcium also impacts a number of other physiological systems including muscle contraction and blood clotting. The ratio 2:1 ( calciumhrosphrus) is ideal for controling this. Although calcium metabolism is not that simple, as vitamin D (D3) also plays a vital role. Because reptiles dont absorb vitamin D that well they need ultraviolet light exposure to manufacture their own vitamin D.
A nice simple way to look at this is UVB exposure = D3 production = successful calcium uptake



*Signs and symptoms.
*
Symptoms can be different as it depends on how long the reptile has had the disease etc. But typical symptoms to look out for are:



Bowed or bent/twisted legs/limbs


Receded lower jaw line


Softening and swelling of the jaw which almost looks like rubber


In severe cases arching in the back and tail


Lethargy


Going off food due to not being able to eat because of rubber jaw or cannot hunt


Muscle twitches and in worse cases seizures due to lack of calcium in diet. As calcium not only affects bones but causes impaired nerve function, major organ damage and even damage at a cellular level


Constipation and/or prolapse


Fractures of the bones due to bone weakness


Muscle weakness and partial paralysis

*Treatment.*

Depending on how advance the disease treatment can be costly, and if the disease has been caught in time. All cases should be seen by a proper herp vet as x-rays and blood tests will need to be carried out to check for bone density and calcium levels. Once MBD has been confirmed treatment can begin. First of all though MBD cannot be cured but can be halted.The damage already done to organs and bones cannot be undone, but MBD as an active progressing disease can be cured/stopped. 
For mild cases MBD is treated with a change in diet e.g. more calcium added and make sure proper husbandry is of the reptile is carried out. For more severe cases the reptile normally need more treatments like calcium injections and vitamin supplementation, and possibly therapeutic use of a higher than normal level of UVB to aid recovery and utilisation of supplimentary calcium which will probably be carried out by your herp vet. They may also need help with eating again if they have stopped eating. This again is best carried out under supervise of your herp vet, so you can give the best help to your reptile. 

*Prevention:*

The best way to prevent MBD is by proper husbandry. Make sure you research any reptile/pet you buy first and problems like this may be avoided in the future. 
Best prevention tips are as followed:



A varied balanced diet with a high calciumhosphorus ratio


Provide UVA and UVB for your reptiles


Thanks for reading this, I hope it helps. xxx Feel free to add more info and your experiences and pics! xxx


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Good thread. Nice and simple. Thanx


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

jools said:


> Good thread. Nice and simple. Thanx


Your welcome hun, just to try let people know about it simply. x


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Sticky anyone??? Lol :flrt:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

:up::flrt:


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## Adam W (Apr 21, 2008)

I say this should be a sticky as its very informative and usefull :no1:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Adam W said:


> I say this should be a sticky as its very informative and usefull :no1:


Thank you! x


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## elljhitch (Jan 23, 2009)

Definately should be a sticky. Very very informative!


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Doubt it will get made one......id like it to tho???? Hmmm how do we do it lol. x


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

good post another point to make is not mbd can be halted though.depending on the severity of the mbd.
example.

gecko rescued looking not great but no to bad condition from premises where husbandry was minimum to bad
vet appointment booked as usual gecko placed in quarantine and given correct enviroment and supplements.
VERY quickly the gecko showed signs of deterioration and vet appointment brought forward as emergency.
within three weeks the back legs looked like they could swivel and the spine had curved.
x ray showed multiple fractures all over the body of the gecko.the fact the deterioration happened so quickly was because proper husbandry was in place and actually speeded up the problems that had been kept at bay with sub optimal conditions.
the gecko was put to sleep so no more suffering


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

suez said:


> good post another point to make is not mbd can be halted though.depending on the severity of the mbd.
> example.
> 
> gecko rescued looking not great but no to bad condition from premises where husbandry was minimum to bad
> ...



Sorry to hear about the gecko, yer unfortunatly not all can be rescued. Weve had some same as soon as they got proper care they failed very quick as they couldnt handle it. Its so sad to see. x


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

it is certainly is very sad.

dont know what happened to my text writing in my last reply sorry to peeps finding it difficult to read.


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## DiNgLy (May 23, 2009)

REALLY GOOD THREAD..defo a sticky!! :2thumb::no1:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

DiNgLy said:


> REALLY GOOD THREAD..defo a sticky!! :2thumb::no1:


Cheers hun let try keep this thread near top for people to see and get help if needed. x


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## JotnJosie (Apr 16, 2009)

very nice guide there, sticky please?


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

JotnJosie said:


> very nice guide there, sticky please?


Im trying, up to mods tho :flrt: x


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## JotnJosie (Apr 16, 2009)

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicky!  lol


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## fran2491 (Oct 10, 2008)

*come on mods sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

yeh sticky lol its good for peeps to know what to look out for when it comes to mbd, my cwd pandora died on friday sadly the mbd beat her after £200+ at the vets and months of tlc from me she gave up in the end just dont think i got her soon enough to make a difference at least shes not in pain anymore :flrt:


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## spudsgirl (Jan 29, 2009)

*Great thread Toxic. x*

Its sad that alot of rep owners will at some point come across MBD even if you do everything right by your rep as said if the parent had it, it will be passed down.

MBD is not nice as myself and fran have been battling against it in our Water Dragons am sorry Fran yours has lost the fight bless her.

Its not nice to see your rep go down hill but at least with this thread people will no the tell tale signs so they can do what they need to, to control it. 

: victory::notworthy: To Toxic Siren x


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

Sticky :2thumb:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Cheers guys....again its down to mods....can hope tho :flrt:x


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

:up::up::up: x


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## Tommy123 (Sep 19, 2008)

Great thread. Stickyy!!!!


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Tommy123 said:


> Great thread. Stickyy!!!!


Cheers hun.....fingers crossed x


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Bumperty bump x


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## Tommy123 (Sep 19, 2008)

Bump for today


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Tommy123 said:


> Bump for today


Cheers hun x


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## kevin cross (Mar 25, 2008)

great thread, must be made a sticky me thinks :2thumb:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

kevin cross said:


> great thread, must be made a sticky me thinks :2thumb:


Cheers hun....still waiting tho...c'mon mods please lol. x


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## Tommy123 (Sep 19, 2008)

Yeah c'mon mods! This totally deserves to be a sticky!!


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

:up: xxx


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## kevin d (May 19, 2009)

*uvb*

good post i seen alot off people on hear say you dont neeed a bulb for leos but when i put one in i notice a difrence with my leo straight away and help with the mbd worth geting a bulb find that she is so more active


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

kevin d said:


> good post i seen alot off people on hear say you dont neeed a bulb for leos but when i put one in i notice a difrence with my leo straight away and help with the mbd worth geting a bulb find that she is so more active


For reps with MBD i always recomend a uv bulb even if its only a 2% as the extra d3 from the uv will help with absorbtion of calcium therfore helping the MBD. x


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## Mitchellz (Apr 26, 2009)

Ummm my baby leo i got a month ago when she lifts her feet up, they like shake, then she takes them down and their alright...Is that normal for a baby to do that? Shes eating and everything fine and drinking


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## kevin d (May 19, 2009)

*mbd*

mbd mine does the same


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Mitchellz said:


> Ummm my baby leo i got a month ago when she lifts her feet up, they like shake, then she takes them down and their alright...Is that normal for a baby to do that? Shes eating and everything fine and drinking


Shaking can be a a sign of MBD, does she look to have twisted or rubber legs? Does she have calcium and d3 like nutrobal in her diet? x


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## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

I agree that this thread is a good idea, but there are a couple of things that could be added to it....




ToxicSiren said:


> D3 can come in forms of UVA/UVB light or in powders such as nutrobal


 UVA does not control the biosynthesis of vitamin D3 at all as far as I'm aware, although UVB is very important.




ToxicSiren said:


> Inadequate protein


Could you explain how this would cause MBD?
I've never heard of this being a cause and can't think how it would result in this disease...



ToxicSiren said:


> Cool temperatures as they impair digestion and therefore calcium absorption.


Although low temps. will result in less efficient digestion, this is not why it can result in MBD.
The biosynthesis of vitamin D3 involves several conversions which take place in the animals skin. The conversion of provitamin D (7-dehydrocholesterol) to previtamin D. This reaction is light (UVB) dependent. Previtamin D is converted into D3 (cholecalciferol) by a heat dependent reaction.
This means that if the animal cannot reach its optimum body temperature, it cannot synthesise vitamin D3 which is vital for calcium absorption.



ToxicSiren said:


> When the calcium levels are pretty low the body has to try take calcium from somewhere else to compensate for example the bones. This makes them softer making them easier to break and fracture. Calcium also impacts a number of other physiological systems including muscle contraction and blood clotting.


Calcium also plays a very important role in the nervous system controlling synaptic transmission. 
The skeletal system is usually the first body system affected. When the muscular and nervous systems become affected, it is often too late to save the animal.



ToxicSiren said:


> Because reptiles dont absorb vitamin D that well they need ultraviolet light exposure to manufacture their own vitamin D.


This isn't really true.
As most lizard species have evolved to cope with a diet relatively low in D3 (insects and/or plants), they have no need to control the uptake of D3 through the gut. This makes over-supplementation (which can be just as dangerous as under-supplementation) a real danger.....
Too much D3 will result in hypercalcaemia (calcium levels in the blood become too high). This can lead to mineralisation of soft tissues.....the kidneys seem especially susceptible to this. The kidneys are vital for calcium absorption as they help convert D3 into an active hormone which directly controls calcium absorption from the gut. Renal failure can also result in hyperuricaemia (gout) which can also be very dangerous to individuals.



ToxicSiren said:


> Provide UVA and UVB for your reptiles


As already stated UVA is not necessary for D3 biosynthesis.


Hope you don't mind me adding to the thread. I feel that since this has been made a sticky, it should contain as much info. as possible....


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## kevin d (May 19, 2009)

*crazy*

one person says one thing some one eles say other but from exsperance of a uvb bulb it does more good well worth having one if leo has mbd but iam no exspert just seen diffrence in my leo i only trn it on a few hours a day


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

James D said:


> I agree that this thread is a good idea, but there are a couple of things that could be added to it....
> 
> 
> UVA does not control the biosynthesis of vitamin D3 at all as far as I'm aware, although UVB is very important.
> ...


Lol dont mind at all, as stated on origional thread to add more info. Thanks for your input! :no1:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

For those that have been lucky enough not to see it. This is what a rubber jaw looks like in a crested gecko, second pic shows how her jaw should be

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156502-neglect-not-3.html

And xrays showing severe MBD also (first 2 show MBD last one shows healthy bones)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156502-neglect-not-8.html


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> For those that have been lucky enough not to see it. This is what a rubber jaw looks like in a crested gecko, second pic shows how her jaw should be
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156502-neglect-not-3.html
> 
> ...


Thank you for these! Im sure they will help too. :no1:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

ToxicSiren said:


> Thank you for these! Im sure they will help too. :no1:


 
You're welcome. Anything to get the word out to stop this happening again and again


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## pc5020 (Jan 4, 2009)

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks as with this info i think I have identified whats happening to my poor beardie. Im taking her to the vets tonight as I am 99% certain she has MBD


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

pc5020 said:


> Hi, I just wanted to say thanks as with this info i think I have identified whats happening to my poor beardie. Im taking her to the vets tonight as I am 99% certain she has MBD


Oh dear, i wish you all the luck in the world. Glad the info has helped. Keep us updated........ x


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## Mitchellz (Apr 26, 2009)

ToxicSiren said:


> Shaking can be a a sign of MBD, does she look to have twisted or rubber legs? Does she have calcium and d3 like nutrobal in her diet? x


When she walks on my hands she don't do it...but in her viv she does do it...maybe shes just a bit shy/scared/curious....And i do have d3, calcium in her dish and i feed it every day to her with crickets and mealworms. I have the same exact Leopard gecko on this topic, the pic shows at this guys thread{first post} A patternless and he has the same color and everything.


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## DolphinPython (Jun 29, 2008)

great post lindzi xx.


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## pc5020 (Jan 4, 2009)

pc5020 said:


> Hi, I just wanted to say thanks as with this info i think I have identified whats happening to my poor beardie. Im taking her to the vets tonight as I am 99% certain she has MBD


FYi all. I took my beardie to the vets and they ended up doing an x-ray on her. What they found was she did indeed have MBD and that it appears to have come on through having approx 40 eggs inside her!!! Is this something anyone else has encountered. They said the eggs were drawing the calcium from her at a rate that wasnt being countered by the supplements I was providing. Ive now upped the calcium intake, put more sand in the viv at one so she can dig and hopefully release and bury the eggs. If they dont come out or disappear she will need an operation to remove them at the cost of £350-400! Has anyone else experienced this before?

Cheers


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

pc5020 said:


> FYi all. I took my beardie to the vets and they ended up doing an x-ray on her. What they found was she did indeed have MBD and that it appears to have come on through having approx 40 eggs inside her!!! Is this something anyone else has encountered. They said the eggs were drawing the calcium from her at a rate that wasnt being countered by the supplements I was providing. Ive now upped the calcium intake, put more sand in the viv at one so she can dig and hopefully release and bury the eggs. If they dont come out or disappear she will need an operation to remove them at the cost of £350-400! Has anyone else experienced this before?
> 
> Cheers


Oh dear im so sorry to hear that, ive never personally experienced it myself but it is what is known as being egg bound. I hope all goes well, good luck. x :2thumb:


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## lisafay (Apr 16, 2009)

great thread. I have a frilly who has been diagnosed as having slight MBD, but seemingly not the cause of his probs. He's well over a yr old now, i've done everything by the book and still he has lost use of his hind legs and is deteriorating at a rapid rate, which is baffling the vets. So far i've paid upwards of 300 euros on vets fees, and still nobody has a clue! 
As i've said, he's lost use of his hind legs, has completely gone off food, retains water beneath his skin and is in general in really bad shape, considering he was buzzing with life only a few weeks ago. We're trying some potent vitamin and mineral supplements from vet as last resort, but the poor guy really is in pain in his lower back and doesn't move at all, nevermind feed (although we're tube feeding at mo).
Would love to hear from anyone else who's had similiar probs. 
As a person who puts a lot of time and effort into making sure their reps needs are met, it's gutting for this to happen, although i know at the best of times reps can die for reasons unknown to us keepers and breeders.

Anyhoo, wishin everyone best a luck with any MBD cases! xxx


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## jimmysimp (Jul 16, 2009)

*Sign of Disease*

Hi,

I have a six month old beardie- my first reptile and just today I have noticed a swelling in the area just where the spine joins to the tail. I try to have him/her out at least every other day and I didn't notice it the last time I handled him. Could this be bone disease? He has also had runny stools for the last two days. If it helps I could send some pics of the area.

Cheers


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

jimmysimp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a six month old beardie- my first reptile and just today I have noticed a swelling in the area just where the spine joins to the tail. I try to have him/her out at least every other day and I didn't notice it the last time I handled him. Could this be bone disease? He has also had runny stools for the last two days. If it helps I could send some pics of the area.
> 
> Cheers


Tbh with any sudden swelings this should be see by a vets to check him out for any other illnesses as could be anything. x


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## jimmysimp (Jul 16, 2009)

Cheers, will do.


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## teiryklav (Mar 20, 2009)

can you tell if my BTS have MBD or not? we dont really know whats mbd here. thanks
heres the pic


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

teiryklav said:


> can you tell if my BTS have MBD or not? we dont really know whats mbd here. thanks
> heres the pic


Hi, does he show any of the symptoms of MBD? Check page 1 for symptoms list. x


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## teiryklav (Mar 20, 2009)

sorry, cant really understnad those lenglish, im not british. but i think the back of him is a bit going up and down, like pushed in one place when it strecthed long. not to bad, but i just wonder. anyway it eats right. i get it with that condition.


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Well if you are not sure maybe a vet can check for you. Just make sure he has calcium on his food and vitamin d3 as if he does have MBD it will help him. x


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

ToxicSiren said:


> Well if you are not sure maybe a vet can check for you. *Just make sure he has calcium on his food and vitamin d3 as if he does have MBD it will help him*. x


The first bit of this comment is true, an appointment at the vet is the best course of action if you are worried about your animal.
The second part of the advice is at best vague. Until you know the exact cause and type of metabolic bone disease an animal is suffering with simply upping the intake of calcium and D3 becomes potentially dangerous. In cases like this without examining the animal it is very difficult to tell what the underlying cause of the problem is. It is infrequently as simple as too little calcium.

Andy


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

GlasgowGecko said:


> The first bit of this comment is true, an appointment at the vet is the best course of action if you are worried about your animal.
> The second part of the advice is at best vague. Until you know the exact cause and type of metabolic bone disease an animal is suffering with simply upping the intake of calcium and D3 becomes potentially dangerous. In cases like this without examining the animal it is very difficult to tell what the underlying cause of the problem is. It is infrequently as simple as too little calcium.
> 
> Andy


Sorry wasnt saying to up intake, just to make sure he has it in his diet. x


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Unfortunately MBD is somewhat of an umbrella term that covers a whole host of conditions, all with very similar symptoms, however caused by varying problems. Although all center around calcium metabolism, causes and treatments are very different. The only way to treat your animal is by correctly diagnosing it.

Andy


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## teiryklav (Mar 20, 2009)

sorry i mean i live in indonesia so its really hard to find a vet here, and even for reptiles.
i'm going to buy some calcium with d3.


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## Jo Wand (Aug 2, 2009)

Hello, I am feeding my 3.5 month old leopard gecko with crickets dusted with calcium with a d3 supplement in it (nutrobal). If I was to put in a 2% uvb light then should i switch to a calcium powder without the d3?


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## warden1974 (Sep 24, 2007)

Jo Wand said:


> Hello, I am feeding my 3.5 month old leopard gecko with crickets dusted with calcium with a d3 supplement in it (nutrobal). If I was to put in a 2% uvb light then should i switch to a calcium powder without the d3?


No stay with the supplements for sure


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## Jo Wand (Aug 2, 2009)

I read that too much d3 can be dangerous for reptiles. If I supply a uvb light and also the d3 supplement then it could cause too much d3? does anyone have any further information on this?


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## lisafay (Apr 16, 2009)

I recently had a post mortem done on my frilly by a very good research vet and author from US, while he was at oxford uni. 
My frilly was misdiagnosed my my vet here in ireland. She said he didn't have MBD, that maybe it was a resp infection. I paid upwards of 300 quid for her to basically do nothing.
Luckily i have a contact at oxford, who knew of some MBD research going on, and arranged the pm on my frilly.
He had very advanced MBD.
This was caused by us giving him TOO MUCH supplementation. 
This is what we were told:
-Reptiles which feed mostly on feeder insects are prone to MBD because 
the calcium-phosphorus ratio is out of balance - around 1:16. 
Phosphorus blocks the uptake of Ca.
-Blood tests (which my vet never did) revealed the high ph levels. And 
also led to renal failure. (we drew blood just before the frilly was put 
to sleep)
-This vet is doing a major international study on this topic, and has 
found so far that some 70% of the cases of MBD he's studiied are a 
direct result of this imbalance, inadequate UV and odd cases are 
responsible for the rest.
- The best way to avoid this happening to your animal, is to gutload 
insects first of all. This evens out the Ca-Ph balance. Also, suppement
with a PURE Ca powder every day/every other day - and only use multi
vit powders like nutriball once a week. also, make an effort to look for 
low Ph products.
And use adequate UV of course!

After doing everything absolutely by the book, I was gutted to lose my frilly, and to find out he died from MBD was a kick in the teeth. 
I'm thrilled i've had some advice from these researchers now though, and it's only now that i feel able to take on another frilly.
No multivit supplements for him every day!!! 

Hope this is useful to someone,
Lisa


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## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

lisafay said:


> I recently had a post mortem done on my frilly by a very good research vet and author from US, while he was at oxford uni.
> My frilly was misdiagnosed my my vet here in ireland. She said he didn't have MBD, that maybe it was a resp infection. I paid upwards of 300 quid for her to basically do nothing.
> Luckily i have a contact at oxford, who knew of some MBD research going on, and arranged the pm on my frilly.
> He had very advanced MBD.
> ...


Over supplementation can indeed cause problems such as hypervitaminosis D. This (when combined with a high calcium intake) can lead to hypercalcaemia which is where the blood plasma level of calcium is above normal.
The body tries to reduce the levels of calcium in the serum by laying calcium down in soft tissues. Muscle (including cardiac muscle) and vascualr tissue are often affected, as are the kidneys. When soft tissue becomes mineralised it severely impairs its function.
Basically, over-supplementation can be just as dangerous as under-supplementation.


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## James D (Nov 17, 2008)

Jo Wand said:


> Hello, I am feeding my 3.5 month old leopard gecko with crickets dusted with calcium with a d3 supplement in it (nutrobal). If I was to put in a 2% uvb light then should i switch to a calcium powder without the d3?


Are you only using nutrobal as a supplement?
You should be using a pure calcium carbonate powder most of the time and only use nutrobal once or twice a week maximum.



Jo Wand said:


> I read that too much d3 can be dangerous for reptiles. If I supply a uvb light and also the d3 supplement then it could cause too much d3? does anyone have any further information on this?


You are right in thinking that too much D3 is harmful (see my above post).
As there has been very little study on the calcium status of captive reptiles (measuring calcediol levels in the blood), it is impossible to answer your question. The animals have a natural mechanism to prevent themselves producing too much D3....it's photodegraded by a wavelength of light very close to the wavelength that's required for its synthesis. By dusting the food in a D3 supplement, we are bypassing that natural mechanism. 

If you are to provide your leo with UVB, I would advise you to closely monitor it's supplementation. If you begin to get signs of hyper/hypocalcaemia then adjust your supplementation accordingly.
Personally, I would use nutrobal once a week maximum, if providing low level UVB.


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## kmarie (Jul 31, 2009)

yesterday we had to have our 5month old yemen chameleon euthanised at the vets because of MBD, maybe if we had known more about this disease before then we could have put a stop to it before it got worse, I knew what MBD was but i was unsure of the signs and things to look for and also all the ways that it can be prevented, if this info prevents at least one reptile owners having to go through what I had to go through yesterday then its a good thing , my poor little miss must have been in agony, its a horrible disease and very very rapid in the way that it takes over their entire body.thanks for posting this!


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

kmarie said:


> yesterday we had to have our 5month old yemen chameleon euthanised at the vets because of MBD, maybe if we had known more about this disease before then we could have put a stop to it before it got worse, I knew what MBD was but i was unsure of the signs and things to look for and also all the ways that it can be prevented, if this info prevents at least one reptile owners having to go through what I had to go through yesterday then its a good thing , my poor little miss must have been in agony, its a horrible disease and very very rapid in the way that it takes over their entire body.thanks for posting this!


I feel your pain hun. We too had to have a chameleon put to sleep on valenties day this year due to sereve MBD. We rescued him from a well know pet store but he only lasted 2 months. The problem with chamelons is they tend to hide illness very well. Now we know he had MBD due to his bent casque etc but we didnt realise how bad till all of a sudden he got really sick one day. Even the vets were shocked by how fast he went down hill in a matter of days. He had a fall and it trigered off seizures which looked very painfull somanaged to get an emergency app same day.
R.I.P Joey. x


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## kmarie (Jul 31, 2009)

ToxicSiren said:


> I feel your pain hun. We too had to have a chameleon put to sleep on valenties day this year due to sereve MBD. We rescued him from a well know pet store but he only lasted 2 months. The problem with chamelons is they tend to hide illness very well. Now we know he had MBD due to his bent casque etc but we didnt realise how bad till all of a sudden he got really sick one day. Even the vets were shocked by how fast he went down hill in a matter of days. He had a fall and it trigered off seizures which looked very painfull somanaged to get an emergency app same day.
> R.I.P Joey. x


This is terrible, it sounds very similar to what happened with our little one, we noticed her leg was bent on monday and by wednesday daytime after already being to the vets once and waiting for the d3 supplements to be ordered she suffered another fall which also fractured her front leg.by the time we got her to the vets wednesday she couldnt lift her own weight and was very lethargic.Its hard when you have to make that decision to end their suffering but I do think its the best thing you can do for them and the kindest..........even though it doesnt feel like that right now


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## Reptimus (Sep 23, 2009)

really helpful thread i didn tknow what mbd was for quite a while till i started reading up on it.. is this a sticky yet??

reptimus


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Reptimus said:


> really helpful thread i didn tknow what mbd was for quite a while till i started reading up on it.. is this a sticky yet??
> 
> reptimus


Yes hun it is now a sticky :flrt:


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## Reptimus (Sep 23, 2009)

ha ha yeah i noticed after sending it that its quite old lol... not a good day for reptimus lol! glad its a sticky though. very informative


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## Mog1999 (Jan 5, 2010)

*My leopard gecko has MBD so now we are giving it lots of tlc and extra calcium powder- she should be fine though*


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## delitrav (Mar 20, 2010)

Hi, i was given a yemen that had bad MBD but he is slowly getting better, he recieved no Uv or nutrobal ect by him previous owner. I brought solar drops for him as well as giving him the correct UV and nutrients ect. This thread is excellent as some people who do buy lizards really have no idea on how to look after them properly.


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## angelserz (Apr 15, 2010)

Good info on MBD. My Iguana died of this because of his previous owners! (I rescued him from a reptile centre) 

I did everything I could but he was almost 4 years old and had 3 years of being fed the wrong food, with no lights, no heat pad, nothing. He was fed protein and had no calcium source. Previous owners were given the wrong info on how to keep an Iguana. He was kept like a dog basically. 

Really good info, everyone should read this and do lots of research *before* getting a reptile!!!!!!!


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## DeadLee (Apr 7, 2010)

Sticky!!....make it so


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## fuzzzzbuzzzz (Apr 11, 2010)

Thankyou for giving us alot of beneficial infomation.


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

Your all welcome guy n gals. Just here to help:flrt: xxx


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## maesmith (Jul 26, 2010)

thanks now i can do my best to prevent it great thread


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## mcmorland (May 29, 2010)

Thank you a very informative post


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## emova (Mar 23, 2010)

this is a fantastic thread! really helpful......but....im still having problems.
today i bought an ozzy water dragon and i knew before collecting her that she had mbd which she was born with. the problem i have is that i dont know what to do about her eating!!! its been half an hour and she still has her mealworm hanging in her mouth! should i be giving her something softer? or anyone deal with the rubber mouth any special way? please as much help as you can give! so so sad! she cant get about and if she falls on her back i have to go turn her over. major kinks in her back. i am going to start with her food intake! please help!


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## stainthedane (Sep 15, 2008)

Here's a video of ONE of the Leopard gecko's I rescued with MBD.
I hate to say it but this is STILL looking like a Majorly common issue and it's really frustrating to see such wonderful animals being neglected this way:

YouTube - MBD Leopard Gecko


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## Kalouda (Sep 1, 2010)

stainthedane said:


> Here's a video of ONE of the Leopard gecko's I rescued with MBD.
> I hate to say it but this is STILL looking like a Majorly common issue and it's really frustrating to see such wonderful animals being neglected this way:
> 
> YouTube - MBD Leopard Gecko


that is so sad, it's not exactly expensive to get a calcium powder and d3 supplement, if they can't give the gecko the right care then why bother. Nice to see you've taken it in, need more ppl doing that.


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## mariex4 (Oct 19, 2009)

hi all any help if i get this poor little fella who is 9 months old . heres what the add states 


i have a lovely bearded dragon he is about 9months old -he has got metabolic bone disease -that means he can walk but not that well as his legs ent that strong as he dident have a uv light from his owners one from the last the last owners gave him me for free a few days ago he had a uv light but the owner before dident he is eating well on crickits and likes to have a shallow bath. i do put him on the floor to have a run around but he dont go to far. he will need to go to a loveing home that has had experience with bearded dragons before as he needs good cear... collection only from bootle. thanks for looking 


with the right calcium and lighting and vet trips do you think he may have a chance. is this classed as servier or can we stop it completely .

any help would be great thanks as i would love to let this little fella have a bit more of a happy life


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## wowser3 (Oct 26, 2010)

I thought my crestie did not need any extra light sourse but do I need to give him extra UVB>?? Or is a bit of sunlight enough for him??
Thanks x


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## darktribute (Oct 24, 2010)

*helpful!*

This was very helpful, as i have a chameleon who i believe is suffering with this problem, and need information on what to do, and what the symptoms :no1:


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

darktribute said:


> This was very helpful, as i have a chameleon who i believe is suffering with this problem, and need information on what to do, and what the symptoms :no1:


Hi,

Chameleon tend to hide illness very well and can go down hill very quick.
Symptoms in chams to look out for is a bend Casque ( cone on head) or may look a bit lop sided. Bent/ bowed legs, any kinks in tail or spine and they tend to loose the ability to shoot their tongue. Our recuce cham Joey had MBD and only lasted a few months as he was too bad by the time we got him :-( 
He was kept ion a 1ft glass cube with no heat lamp or uv :censor:. Joey had a bend over casque and bowed legs so he went straight to a vets for a check. He had calcium injections and was told he may not survive :-(.

We gave Joey a 4ft high viv with lots of plants and safty nets ( cos he used to fall of his branches) Didnt want yo give him any thing much higher due to his bad gripping and cimbing skills. He had 2 heat lamps set to slightly different temps and a new UV.
His food was dusted with calcium every other day so he wasnt over loaded and dusted with nutrabol twice a week.

By the end of the second month Joey was getting worse and only walked on the floor...with is a bad sign really :-( He started to fall more often and the threw his first seizure. I called the emergecy vet straight away and Joey was booked in for next morning. He had 3 more seizures that night and continued having more in the vets. The best option was to have Joey put to sleep :-( That was on Valentines day 2009. R.I.P Joey.


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## darktribute (Oct 24, 2010)

ToxicSiren said:


> Hi,
> 
> Chameleon tend to hide illness very well and can go down hill very quick.
> Symptoms in chams to look out for is a bend Casque ( cone on head) or may look a bit lop sided. Bent/ bowed legs, any kinks in tail or spine and they tend to loose the ability to shoot their tongue. Our recuce cham Joey had MBD and only lasted a few months as he was too bad by the time we got him :-(
> ...


 
Thanks for your reply, sorry to hear what happened, can't believe someone would keep him in a glass viv, with no heat or uv light! My chameleon kiwi is looking a little more on the up thankfully! I went to a specialist and i was given a boost to put in his water, and to give him a couple of drops a day. I've also been gut loading his food, and dusting them, then having to feed him too. I put in another UV bulb for him to bask under, to also help. So i'll carry on doing this and hope for the best.

Regards


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

darktribute said:


> Thanks for your reply, sorry to hear what happened, can't believe someone would keep him in a glass viv, with no heat or uv light! My chameleon kiwi is looking a little more on the up thankfully! I went to a specialist and i was given a boost to put in his water, and to give him a couple of drops a day. I've also been gut loading his food, and dusting them, then having to feed him too. I put in another UV bulb for him to bask under, to also help. So i'll carry on doing this and hope for the best.
> 
> Regards


Sounds like your doing fab 

I always said if we got another cham id call it Kiwi lol Love it x


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## darktribute (Oct 24, 2010)

It's because Kiwi is a good name 
Thanks though x

Here is a picture of him...


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

darktribute said:


> It's because Kiwi is a good name
> Thanks though x
> 
> Here is a picture of him...
> ...



Awww hes fab x


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## jlbyron2000 (Sep 20, 2010)

:2thumb:


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## jenbacher (Jul 1, 2010)

fantastic thread, i have a gecko and cross dragon with mbd at the min i rescued them as the fella didnt have a clue, they are getting on fine. the dragon has shut down for the winter but hes still taken food off me. just trying to make him as comfortable as possible. 
the gecko has little bent legs but is a great runner. i keep her apart from the rest of the reptiles but again shes great.:lol2::lol2:


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## Linkj93 (Jan 10, 2011)

Helped allot in my sitch, thank god my baby didnt have MBD.


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