# morphs are confusing me!!!!



## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

hello guys !

please can someone help me, i'm the proud owner of a 6 week old leopard gecko that i purchased from a breeder, it is my first leo and i have just started getting into morphs and traits and genes etc.

and i am so coufused.

i understand how the punnet square tutorial works, but what i dont get is how can it work for me?

the father of my leo was a mack snow albino, and the mother was a super hypo tangerine carrot tail.

now i dont know what are recessive, dominant co dominant, herts etc.

so the advanced morph calculator has just baffled me (i apologise if i come across as stupid)


now if i was to use the punnet square technique... what symbols would i use for them?

now i know that someobody can easily tell me, you have a hybino or a snowglow etc, and i know i may have...... but i want to work it out for my self and learn by doing.

so the question is... i have a punnet square infront of me and i need to fill it in using a mack snow albino male and a super hypo tangerine carrot tail as a female.......what do i do?

for example (AA for albino NN for normal )

sorry if i seem confusing, but i too am confused :lol2:


thanks alot for your time guys :notworthy:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Albino = Recessive.
Mack snow = Codominant.
Hypo = Dominant.
Super,Tangerine,Carrottail in hypo's = Polygenic traits.


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## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

thanks for that, it seems to make more sense, but how would i use this in the punnet square?


sorry if i seem dumb, im just trying to learn


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## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

after looking at that list i'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say a
Hypo Albino / Hybino? or a Hypo Mack Snow Albino? or a Mack Snow ?


am i on the right lines?


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## teiryklav (Mar 20, 2009)

it depends,, sothe macksnow is codominant, then the son might be mack snow or just normal. and it will be carrying albino genes (het albino) as the father is albino,,
and it will be hypo too i think. but i dk abbout those polygenic trait, i just learned the basic lol :lol2:


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## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

lol im the same, just want to use my leo as a learning point with these genetics etc


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Albino snow SPLIT Super snow X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .

Normal HET Albino.
[1C]Hypo HET Albino.
Snow SPLIT Super snow HET Albino.
[1C]Hypo snow SPLIT Super snow HET Albino.

A percent of hypo offspring will likely mature into Super hypo.
A percent of offspring will likely be influanced by tangerine. 
-------
Albino snow SPLIT Super snow X [2C]Super hypo tangerine = .

[1C]Hypo HET Albino.
[1C]Hypo snow SPLIT Super snow HET Albino.

A percent of hypo offspring will likely mature into Super hypo.
A percent of offspring will likely be influanced by tangerine.


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## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

well thank you very much for that :2thumb:

seems to make more sense now

i just have 1 little question.....sorry if im annoying, just be patient, i will get it soon lol

my question is this.

in the line

[1C]Hypo HET Albino.

doesn't the 1C mean HET?

so HET hypo HET albino = its just confusing me a bit

sorry but im using your signature to aid me ( which is very helpful :no1: )


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

classix said:


> well thank you very much for that :2thumb:
> 
> seems to make more sense now
> 
> ...


Yes [1C] is the dominant term for HET.[2C] ofcourse the dominant term for ****.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

classix said:


> so the question is... i have a punnet square in front of me and i need to fill it in using a mack snow albino male and a super hypo tangerine carrot tail as a female.......what do i do?
> 
> for example (AA for albino NN for normal )


This is a three gene pair problem. Here's what I would use. (These symbols follow the rules of nomenclature for rats and mice, which the professional geneticists use.) I'm going to skip the carrottail and tangerine as those are line bred traits.

Male = Ms//Ms^+ a//a H^+//H^+
Female = Ms^+//Ms^+ a^+//a^+ H//H

Symbol meanings:
// = a pair of chromosomes

Ms = Mack snow
Ms^+ = normal version of the Mack snow gene

a = albino
a^+ = normal version of the albino gene

H = hypo
H^+ = normal version of the hypo gene

This editor does not do superscripts, so ^ sets off the superscript. H^+ stands for H with + as a superscript. + is the internationally recognized character for the normal allele for each mutant gene.

So the male is Ms//Ms^+ a//a H^+//H^+. He has a pair of chromosomes with a Mack snow gene in one chromosome and a normal gene in the other, a pair of chromosomes with an albino mutant gene in each one, and a pair of chromosomes with a normal gene in each one where the female has a hypo mutant gene.

The male produces two types of sperm, Ms a H^+ and Ms^+ a H^+.
The female produces one kind of egg, Ms^+ a^+ H.

Plug these into the Punnett square, and you get two types of babies. Clear as mud?


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

gazz said:


> Yes [1C] is the dominant term for HET.[2C] ofcourse the dominant term for ****.


Homozygous is the standard genetics term for a pair of genes that are the same. It does not matter whether the genes are normal genes, dominant mutant genes, codominant mutant genes or recessive mutant genes.

Heterozygous is the standard genetics term for a pair of genes that are not the same. It does not matter whether the two genes are a normal gene and a recessive mutant gene, a normal gene and a dominant mutant gene, a normal gene and a codominant mutant gene, or two different mutant genes.

On the other hand, 1 copy and 2 copies has the benefit of making the meaning a bit plainer to a newbie. So [1C] Tremper albino is a perfectly acceptable substitute for het Tremper albino.


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## classix (Sep 11, 2009)

thanks for your help

i keep making the cardinal newbie sin of assuming HET as meaning Hidden :blush:


nowt PaulH i must admit when i saw this post i felt like my head was going to explode :lol2:





paulh said:


> This is a three gene pair problem. Here's what I would use. (These symbols follow the rules of nomenclature for rats and mice, which the professional geneticists use.) I'm going to skip the carrottail and tangerine as those are line bred traits.
> 
> Male = Ms//Ms^+ a//a H^+//H^+
> Female = Ms^+//Ms^+ a^+//a^+ H//H
> ...






but i kept on studying it and devised a punnett square....please bare with me if i have done it completely wrong.

first i started by working out how i write it down, so after reading your line 

Male = Ms//Ms^+ a//a H^+//H^+

i assumed i should split it into mack snow, mack snow normal, albino, albino, hypo normal, hypo normal.

so these are the headings at the top of my punnet square, i used the same method for a female and here is what my results say.

(again please bare with me if i have cocked it all up )

1/18 Ms^+//Ms
1/18 A^+//Ms
1/18 H//Ms

1/18 Ms^+ // Ms^+
1/18 A^+ // Ms^+
1/18 H // Ms^+

1/9 Ms^+ // a
1/9 A^+ // a
1/9 H // a

1/9 Ms^+ // H^+
1/9 A^+ // H^+
1/9 H // H^+

(my punnet square was a total of 36, so i have halved it down, so the 1/9 means 4 out of 36 )

so am i on the right lines here? or have i done too much/ too less?


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

classix said:


> ... but i kept on studying it and devised a punnett square....please bare with me if i have done it completely wrong.
> 
> first i started by working out how i write it down, so after reading your line
> 
> ...


Oh, my. Way off track.  

You have made the commonest newbie mistake -- trying to pair genes that cannot be paired. You cannot pair an albino (a) gene with anything except another a mutant gene or an a^+ gene. A Mack snow mutant gene (Ms) can only be paired with another Ms mutant gene or an Ms^+ gene, and a hypo mutant gene (H) can only be paired with another H mutant gene or an H^+ gene. Trying to make a pair of genes from an a gene and an Ms^+ gene is like trying to pair an earring with a rubber boot.

The male is Ms//Ms^+ a//a H^+//H^+. Each sperm gets one gene from each pair of genes. So the sperm get either an Ms or an Ms^+ gene. All the sperm get an a mutant gene because both genes in the pair are a. And all the sperm get an H^+ gene because both genes in the pair are H^+. 

Sperm genotypes:
1/2 Ms a H^+
1/2 Ms^+ a H^+

Female = Ms^+//Ms^+ a^+//a^+ H//H
Each egg gets one gene from each pair of genes. The two genes in each gene pair are the same. So every egg gets an Ms^+ gene, an a^+ gene and an H gene.

Egg genotype:
Ms^+ a^+ H

Plug that into a Punnett square that is 1 X 2 boxes. 

And the result is
1/2 Ms//Ms^+ a^+//a H//H^+ = Mack snow hypo (het albino)
1/2 Ms^+//Ms^+ a^+//a H//H^+ = hypo (het albino)


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