# Cobras,Vipers, and Rattlers Oh My!!!!



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Well I was gonna post this on the leucistic monocled thread but I'll just start a new one. 

I was over at a friends house the yesterday and we got some pics. I wanted to post them to the can you handle venomous question and what nots. 

I'll reply later let's get to the flaming for now. : victory:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)




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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)




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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

nice snakes mate, I have seen some crazy free handling recently a young black mamba springs to mind, so im not easily shocked anymore, not that I dont think its a bad idea.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)




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## Raeven (Mar 15, 2007)

Awesome!!!


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

nice snakes but questionable handling


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

jaysnakeman said:


> nice snakes but questionable handling


So they say but Before this gets going to far I will say I don't recomend handling hot's like this but the gaboon and the little diamondback are venomoids.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats the trick then


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Was you worried I had lost my mind. LOL Not yet but just goes to show if you did take the chance they would tame. Not even worth it. The little coba is hot but so tame it is sicking.


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

cool nice snakes


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

i love gaboon vipers and king cobras


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

gabby's are in my eyes the most amazing looking snake!!!


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

feckin hell...tht cobra!
nice gaboons!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Eric said:


> So they say but Before this gets going to far I will say I don't recomend handling hot's like this but the gaboon and the little diamondback are venomoids.


Are you ever concerned that the venom glands might regenerate?

They're beautiful animals - and I'm sure that when you don't have to use "extreme" handling methods to deal with them, they'd have very interesting temperaments ... but I just wouldn't want to risk it personally.

Do you find that the cobras are more intelligent-seeming than other snakes?


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## Daniel (Jul 28, 2005)

are venoms more agresive then normal snakes cos i dont see why just cos they got the vem they have to use it 
can they be tame to handle normaly?
dan


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm seriously not sure the venom glands can regenerate but we try and milk them before we do all the free hand stuff just in case. 

Venomous snakes well most of them are no more agressive than any other snake and if you take the risk of getting bit you could probaly tame most of them but then there is still the chance of getting bit by a tame snake so is it worth it?

None of the snakes pictured are aggressive really the kings are babies for the most part and the venomoid gabby and EDB are pretty laid back as well. 

I think some cobras are more intellegent than other snakes the kings seem to have a little more going on in there heads than the average.


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## Hobgoblin (Apr 13, 2007)

Awesome snakes, Awesome Pictures......

I luurve my Cobra's........:flrt::flrt::flrt:

The ones here are gorgeous especially the one being patted on the head....LOL good dog...!!

Guys I'll fight you for em:mf_dribble:......:lol2:


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## Hobgoblin (Apr 13, 2007)

I think some cobras are more intellegent than other snakes the kings seem to have a little more going on in there heads than the average.[/quote]

In my Opinion without a doubt!!! Just seems that way if you look into their eyes :crazy:

Mate Tha Gaboon your holding in the first picture...its awesome ....quite a big fella....just out of interest what his temperament like???


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

No one really depbates that hots can't be handled, just that it's foolish to do so needlessly.

The *only* possible reason to do it like that is to show off, which most of us try to grow out of as teenagers. not having a go, getting upset or trying to flame anybody so please don't take it as such, this is my opinion and therefore my contribution to the discussion.

Mason


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## easty (May 4, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> Are you ever concerned that the venom glands might regenerate?
> 
> They're beautiful animals - and I'm sure that when you don't have to use "extreme" handling methods to deal with them, they'd have very interesting temperaments ... but I just wouldn't want to risk it personally.
> 
> Do you find that the cobras are more intelligent-seeming than other snakes?


This is just my opinion but i hope their venom glands do "regenerate" and give you a shock one day. i think removing their glands is a cruel and selfish act. end of!


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## rockkeeper (Apr 5, 2007)

> This is just my opinion but i hope their venom glands do "regenerate" and give you a shock one day. i think removing their glands is a cruel and selfish act. end of!


did eric remove them ? or bought like that?

stunning pic 's


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## easty (May 4, 2007)

rockkeeper said:


> did eric remove them ? or bought like that?
> 
> stunning pic 's


that doesnt matter wether he removed them himself or not, its still cruel.


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## rockkeeper (Apr 5, 2007)

if the animal hasn't been hurt,i dont see how its cruel
on saying that i wouldnt want to pets shops selling them to all and sundrie ,if you know what i mean


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## easty (May 4, 2007)

rockkeeper said:


> if the animal hasn't been hurt,i dont see how its cruel
> on saying that i wouldnt want to pets shops selling them to all and sundrie ,if you know what i mean


i see it as being cruel as it is taking the animals primary defence away! i also belive that some if not all (i aint an expert in hots in any way so i may be wrong) hots venom helps in digestion. It has NO benefit to the animal whatsoever, the only benefit of venomoids it to the keeper. (same with ANY animal) If you are not prepared to be bitten dont keep them! 

They are all beautiful creatures n i have the upmost respect for people that keep hots but not venomoids, its like a little boy racer in his Vauxhall nova pretending to be in a Ferrari, if you know what i mean.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

OK The gaboon came from a friend of mine in Texas after he died John Poole if any of you might know him from another forum he was big into retics. I personally don't support the venomoid thing but hey the snake was given to me by a friend what should I do say no. Come on now! 

I have no idea who did the surgery but like I said before we play with venomoids we milk them to double check so no surprises here

No Venom does not help the snake digest. Read up on the defanging the cobra thread fo the run down.


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## Miranda (Dec 25, 2006)

I wouldnt recommend it. But they are taking some precautions, e.g. gloves,hooks etc.
They look very tame though!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

wow amazing pictures..ur alot braver than me lol

I love cobra's i think they're the most beautiful things, but i wouldn't dare to keep one, one tiny mistake n..well doesn't bare thinkin about really :|


Katie


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## *o* (Apr 12, 2007)

*Oh, la la!​*


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## candoia aspera (Mar 5, 2007)

looks like you have a hell of a collection dude


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## tokay (Mar 13, 2007)

Eric said:


> So they say but Before this gets going to far I will say I don't recomend handling hot's like this but the gaboon and the little diamondback are *venomoids*.


 ugh hate the whole venomoid thing , just thought id give my opinion that i 100% disagree with vemonoids , theres obsolute no good reason for this imo.
im not gonna get into a fight over this.. just stating my opinion on this issue


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

Eric said:


>


woah he looks seriously scary lol.. nice snakes :no1:


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## Young Boldric (Feb 5, 2007)

that gaboon is foooookin gorgeous :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

Daniel said:


> are venoms more agresive then normal snakes cos i dont see why just cos they got the vem they have to use it
> can they be tame to handle normaly?
> dan


I think they have the potential to be tame but to tame them would require direct contact-a risk not worth taking
Ben


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## Rocky Bal Boa Lover (Feb 22, 2007)

I LOVE that king cobra, Such a gorgeous snake, So aware and intellegent:no1:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I Have to post it again! I don't agree or support venomoids but there out there so if I come across one for free or on a deal I'm not turning it down. My other gabbon is venomous as all my other snakes. This guy is just a mate for my female 

The gabby was sold as venomous to john poole and my firend bought it as a venomous snake. They both found out the snake doesn't produce venom. We have no idea who did the surgery and since john passed just before shipping the gaboon we have no way of finding out. 

Well I'm glad some of you enjoy the pics just remeber they are what they are.


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

There's a good chance I'm wrong here, but doesn't the venom in venomous snakes actuallly break down the animals blood, and viens. A kind of pre-digestion?
I know this is true for some snakes, but I don't know if it's all "hots".


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## Montage_Morphs (Jul 6, 2007)

Are the children who play on the swings pictures behind you ever exposed to these highly venomous snakes?

It's fine and dandy to risk your own life, but however much you think, you are NOT in control of the situation in those pictures. Venomoids or not, it's stupidity to post these pictures online where others may get the wrong idea. Our hobby is under enough scrutiny...


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

easty said:


> This is just my opinion but i hope their venom glands do "regenerate" and give you a shock one day. i think removing their glands is a cruel and selfish act. end of!


Is it also cruel to remove a paired set of glands from captive _Canis lupus familiaris _and_ Equus caballus _to change their behaviour for the convenience of the humans that keep them? It is a surgery that, because it is done under general anesthesia, is dangerous to the animal and can result in death. It can change not only their behaviour but even their body morphology if it's done to a younger animal - it changes their actual shape and how their bones develop.

I'm talking, of course, about castrating male horses and dogs. It's done exclusively for human convenience and it's not only condoned but _recommended_ by vets, animal rescues and other organisations. People cut male horses because they can't take the extensive amount of time to socialise and properly habituate an entire stallion - and quite often do not have the facilities to do so. People cut male dogs to curb natural marking behaviour and change the personality of their animal so that it is more manageable. It doesn't have a realistic health benefit* to the animal to do it prophylactically; it's just done to make the animal easier to handle. However, with proper precaution, an entire dog or stallion can be handled on a regular and humane basis and does not strictly have to be handled in a way stressful to the animal just to do routine feeding, cleaning and other maintenance tasks.

By comparison, venomoid surgery may well have a visible benefit to the animal. You might be able to make routine feeding and cleaning tasks less stressful and take more time to do them because you are less concerned about the snake you put into a locked box away from its heating equipment; you do not have to delay doing them because a "hot" snake won't go into the lockable hide box or grab it with tongs when it'd much rather be left alone. It is a surgical procedure, if it is going to be done it should be done with proper anesthetics, by a vet, and with appropriate pain relief given to the animal afterwards. 

I'm not saying that I personally agree with making venomoids (and I would not choose to own one) ... but at the same time, it may have benefits to the animal as well as negatives.

_*Ok, an animal with testicles is more likely to get testicular cancer than an animal without them ... but when you're talking about a less than 1% chance of getting the cancer in the first place is it really that much of a benefit? Not to mention that dogs at least are MORE at risk for prostate cancers if they've BEEN done than if they're entire... easy enough to whip off a cancerous testicle, not so easy to remove a malignant prostate tumour. _

_I wonder if venomous snakes ever get cancers of the venom glands?_


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Montage_Morphs said:


> Are the children who play on the swings pictures behind you ever exposed to these highly venomous snakes?
> 
> WOW that's a low blow. The snakes are kept in a building behind the house in locked cages and locked doors. There are never kids remotely close to these snakes.


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## Montage_Morphs (Jul 6, 2007)

I just thought I would point it out. Well no, I just wanted to know if children lived in the same house as those spcies of snake.

Its not a low blow at all, I hope they are very well educated about how dangerous these snakes are, godforbid one ever escaped during such activities of free handling.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

The kids are inside the snakes are not going to escape and yes they are very educated on each species and the effect and seriousness of a bite they are never near or in contact with anything venomous. 

Also would like to point out this is my Friends house not mine. My snakes are kept in the house in a sealed room locked doors in locked cages. His snakes are kept in the building behind the house same set up sealed room locked doors and cages.

We are serious and safe keepers believe it or not figured we'd get a few pics to stir up the beehive. Since most of the people posting on venomous forums and thread have only seen them through glass at the zoo.


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## SSamm (Mar 9, 2006)

wow, stunners!!


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Fantastic pics mate, ignore all the haters, they are just jealous... and jumping n the bandwagon


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## farleigh24 (Apr 9, 2007)

well mate, great pics and i take my hat off to you, dnt think i would ever be brave enuf to go for a hot, but seeing yours is fantastic, well done, it takes a special kinda person to keep and handle these animals xx:no1:


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## tokay (Mar 13, 2007)

Eric said:


> I Have to post it again! I don't agree or support venomoids but there out there so if I come across one for free or on a deal I'm not turning it down. My other gabbon is venomous as all my other snakes. This guy is just a mate for my female
> 
> The gabby was sold as venomous to john poole and my firend bought it as a venomous snake. They both found out the snake doesn't produce venom. We have no idea who did the surgery and since john passed just before shipping the gaboon we have no way of finding out.
> 
> Well I'm glad some of you enjoy the pics just remeber they are what they are.



ahh that clears that up , sorry i should read all the posts 
i wasnt trying to be offensive , i just hate the people who do this barbaric unnessesary (sp) surgery and i understand they were taken in by you and your mate  
nice1 on rescuing these beauties


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## mgs1982uk (Jun 17, 2006)

absolutely amazing animals, i love gabbys....................one day...................probably not.......but i can dream


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I didnt know too much about venoid so after the disscussion the other day I have done some reading on it, and as much as I wouldnt own a venomoid snake, and I dont believe its moral, I also dont think when done properly its cruel, you have to look at the facts, snakes that have been made venomoid have lived long and healthy snakes with no venom.


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## Rocky Bal Boa Lover (Feb 22, 2007)

Montage_Morphs said:


> Are the children who play on the swings pictures behind you ever exposed to these highly venomous snakes?
> 
> It's fine and dandy to risk your own life, but however much you think, you are NOT in control of the situation in those pictures. Venomoids or not, it's stupidity to post these pictures online where others may get the wrong idea. Our hobby is under enough scrutiny...


I think the poor bloke puts his kids before his snakes, Give him a break FFS! You have seen a few pics and your ready to judge him. And people on here who keep slating him about removing the venom glands ect, He has allready said he got given the snake in that way.


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

i think Eric and his friend are more than capable of reading hot snakes with keeping them and look in control else i wouldn't think they would do it just to 'show off' on a public forum
anyways..some great looking snakes...i would not dream of keeping them myself but i respect people who go through with that element of reptilekeeping..nice one


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## Mez (Feb 19, 2007)

Oh dear.
We are lucky enough to have someone willing to offer obvious expertise, experience and knowledge with such impressive animals, and all people can do is slag him for a previous owners actions.
Grow up, folks!


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

Eric said:


> I'm seriously not sure the venom glands can regenerate but we try and milk them before we do all the free hand stuff just in case.
> 
> Venomous snakes well most of them are no more agressive than any other snake and if you take the risk of getting bit you could probaly tame most of them but then there is still the chance of getting bit by a tame snake so is it worth it?
> 
> ...


Hi Mate:

When I joined the forum this was the first post I looked at and was a bit put off by the display of "freehandling". Venomoid or not, I don't think it's the sort of images that need to be shown in public for they send a bad message about venomous keepers. That's all I wish to say on that topic but have other points to talk about. 

There are no known instances to my knowledge of venom gland or duct re-growth in Viperid venomoids however, it's been demonstrated that if all the gland & duct are removed from Elapid they can re-grow. Caution is required with them because of this small problem.

Kings are exceptionally intellegent, more so than the average NBA player in the USA :Na_Na_Na_Na: They watch & learn how you interact with them and can surprize you if you don't vary your routine.

Very nice specimens you have, that King is a big beastie and looks like a fun one to work.

Cheers!

Al


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## leogirl (Oct 1, 2006)

i dont know a thing about venomous snakes so cant really say much lol but very nice pics!!


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

Mez said:


> Oh dear.
> We are lucky enough to have someone willing to offer obvious expertise, experience and knowledge with such impressive animals, and all people can do is slag him for a previous owners actions.
> Grow up, folks!


 
Hey Mez... Love the way you think, "Orange Bitey Thing"

Cheers!

Al


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## rachy (Nov 18, 2006)

Montage_Morphs said:


> Are the children who play on the swings pictures behind you ever exposed to these highly venomous snakes?
> 
> It's fine and dandy to risk your own life, but however much you think, you are NOT in control of the situation in those pictures. Venomoids or not, it's stupidity to post these pictures online where others may get the wrong idea. Our hobby is under enough scrutiny...


What about the venomous snakes found naturally in the wild in the USA?
Surely kids are at risk of those too so should be pretty clued up.

Amazing pics but you are deffo braver than me!!!


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## elle1331 (Mar 19, 2007)

the snakes are beautiful stunning examples of hots
I personally wouldnt keep hots but i am in total awe of people who have enough knowledge and balls too keep them 
and as for the person who said that snakes having thier ducts removed wouldnt be able to use thier venom for defence ummmmm ok they are in captivity and dont need a venom defence mechanism as they do not come into contact with any predetors. I would also add that im not advocating the removal of thier vemon so they are able to show off the snakes to their friend but if the surgery is done correctly with little or no pain and no complecations then i dont see the big deal.


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## DragonKeeper (Jun 30, 2007)

:O do yous keep anti venom


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Viperkeeper said:


> Hi Mate:
> 
> When I joined the forum this was the first post I looked at and was a bit put off by the display of "freehandling". Venomoid or not, I don't think it's the sort of images that need to be shown in public for they send a bad message about venomous keepers. That's all I wish to say on that topic but have other points to talk about.
> 
> ...


The gland as well as the duct can regrow? I was reading about this the other day they said that there has been instances of ducts regrowing in elapids in a matter of weeks, which is pretty impressive.


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## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

wow what a gorgeous snake? You seem to very good at handling them...if only I had that confidence!


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Whats the snake in this pic? 

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/workin3.jpg


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken that's a Gaboon Viper.

If only there was something that colour that wasn't venomous...


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Lucifus said:


> Whats the snake in this pic?
> 
> http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/workin3.jpg


yeh it is a gaboon viper Bitis gabonica


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

I love the ridge on its back.​


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## tokay (Mar 13, 2007)

Gabbys has got to be the most beautiful snake for pattern/colour i love em


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

omfg! haha what a brave brave man... and a king cobra in the uk. pretty rare! well good luck to the guy and i hope he dont get bit!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

joe190 said:


> omfg! haha what a brave brave man... and a king cobra in the uk. pretty rare! well good luck to the guy and i hope he dont get bit!



It aint in the UK, hes in america


But theres a fair few Kings around


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## 12kslr33 (May 20, 2008)

just read the whole thread, why does everyone always think of the negatives before the positives, no wonder our national teams are useless at every sport, anation full of moaners and negativity!

sorry to everyone who had something positive to say, also hands down to eric.


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## ferretlad (Mar 6, 2008)

I take my hat of to you for having the guts to handle that bunch, I could not do what you do. Noooo chance.


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

:flrt: i love looking at the pictures of your snakes eric but id never keep them lol,im not brave enough.
the cobra is massive!!!! :2thumb::2thumb::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

well i admire you for having the balls to handle them, but its not something i would personally try !!


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## jacko19 (Jul 16, 2008)

i'd love to be that close to a Cobra although they are scary things lol


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Nice snakes, that EDB looks a sizeable beast. Looks like the King has had a bit of nose rub?


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## fatratsandcheesekk (May 18, 2008)

nice snakes i love the cobra


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> Nice snakes, that EDB looks a sizeable beast. Looks like the King has had a bit of nose rub?


Most Kings I have seen suffer from nose rub, as mentioned they are far more intelligent than your average snake and never seem to acept the fact that they are confined.

Where as "free handling" venomous is frowned upon (certainly in this country) you will find that most experienced and dedicated keepers do not need to "show off" and the handling is merely taking it to the next level.
True there are and will be many keepers who either do this for Bravado but natural selection (i.e they get bit or their snakes taken off them for carelessness/reckless behavior) usually sorts them out.

To work and be competent enough to Free handle is a privilege with these awesome animals.


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## rich-88 (Apr 20, 2008)

gorgeous snakes mate. espesh love the gaboon. fink they the nuts


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Eric, you forgot those 3 magic words that would have earned you pats on the back!! 'It's for charity'. Next time say you're donating any proceeds to kids and they'll love you!!! Just look at the 'Mad Martin' thread, it's amazing how opinions change when something is for charity!! :lol2:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh yeah right I forgot. It's for charity :lol2::lol2::lol2:

On a brighter note for all those it bothers so much I can say my free handling days are done.


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## madman2 (Mar 11, 2008)

i would say your mad..... but i think that you most probaly know that already?!?!? 

any way i would say i have no objection to people free handling hots BUT as long as the reps are still handled in a decent manner.... i would say the preverbile "better you than me mate" 

cheers id love some more photos of this also that gabby is stunning would love to see the nashers on that!!! LOLING


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## lidman (Mar 24, 2008)

The cobras are stunning m8. but they all look fantastic


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## minxmagic (Jul 1, 2008)

would i be right in saying that the Rattle snake & the Death Adder...are very similar structure wize...but is the venom as lethal?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

minxmagic said:


> would i be right in saying that the Rattle snake & the Death Adder...are very similar structure wize...but is the venom as lethal?


depends on the rattlesnake tbh in those pics theres a eastern and western diamond back, both are pretty horrible but being vipers there venom composition is different to that of a death adder, which obviously is an elapid, the rattlesnakes there are pretty dangerous though with massive venom yeilds, and will destroy flesh and blood and are easily fatal. The death adders are typical elapids in many ways, paralysis (sp) and respiritory failure causing the problems and on paper ie LD50 more dangerous than the rattlers, the man to speak to really is Tigersnake : victory:


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## Starshine Tara (Jun 22, 2008)

Lovely animals!

I wondered why you were free handling :crazy: until I read about the venemoids thing.

I am not sure how I feel about venemoids. 

I don't think it's cruel if it doesn't affect feeding - or any other physiological aspect except the invenomation of prey - and the animal is properly cared for.

(I know it wasn't the OP that had this done to the snakes by the way)

I guess the kids nearby could be a worry with that minimal fencing, regardless.

On the other hand, as others including Habu, have said before: there are plenty of wild venomous snakes in America (and around the world). 

Nature does not abide by the DWA.

In the UK we only have one venomous snake in the wild - an Adder of some kind I think - and so I feel that we are very sensitive about this.

Tara xxx

: victory:


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