# Your First Venomous



## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

For once, not a "which beginner venomous" thread. 

What was your first venomous snake? And also, what was it like to keep (or still to keep if you still have it).

Also, just wondering, was it what you expected it to be? In both the first time keeping, and the animal itself.


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

Mine all happened at once to be fair! I kept 1.1 Crotalus vegrandis 1.0 Sistrurus catenatus & a neonate Bothriechis schlegeli. I found the whole expereince broadened my ability to keep and enjoy reptiles before allowing the collection to grow, Then we found out my other half was expecting so sold up and now dont keep any snakes. (For a while) lol.

Tom


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## Morbid (Dec 11, 2006)

1.1 _Vipera aspis francisciredi_


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my first hot was vipera ammodytes closely followed by Crotalus atrox, got them both as tiny snakes and havnt had any problems.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Vipera ammodytes!

But I'd been working with berus for 20 years before that


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## Mehelya (Jun 3, 2008)

*first venomous*

Bitis arietans (a big fat female). It was the first of many problem snakes i removed from a garden and held temporarily until releasing it.


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

Four replies and not one copperhead i am truly amazed 

Tom


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## crouchy (Jan 14, 2008)

Bothriechis Schlegeli was my first hot. They were nice and calm and i would have recommened them to anyone as a first hot if they already have experience of arboreal snakes. And they were even more stunning in the flesh than the photos make them look. At times i wish i still had them.


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## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

Crotalus viridis helleri was my first venomous


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## GaryR (Sep 28, 2008)

My first venomous snake was an adult female C.Atrox.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

_Trimeresurus trigonocephalus_


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> _Trimeresurus trigonocephalus_


Excellent species! You got WC or CB animals? Would love to see them bud have to be one of my favourite Trims!.

Tom


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

so who did all the hot keepers on here learn off then?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> so who did all the hot keepers on here learn off then?


self taught!!!


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> so who did all the hot keepers on here learn off then?


My mentor always wanted to remain un-named for some reason! I now understand why because a mentor often puts his/her integrity on the line teaching a novice.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Tom_b said:


> Excellent species! You got WC or CB animals? Would love to see them bud have to be one of my favourite Trims!.
> 
> Tom


 
CB from Alfred Wallner in Austria

oh, and self taught too


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Tom_b said:


> My mentor always wanted to remain un-named for some reason! I now understand why because a mentor often puts his/her integrity on the line teaching a novice.


Now I would question anyone that didn't have such confidence in his teaching ability that he would want to remain anonymous..............just in case.
Anyways, I have my own opinions of the whole "mentoring" gig, which seems to be perpetuated by a few out to make money...........I could be wrong.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> self taught!!!


if ur self taught how did u manage to get ur dwa? i thought one of the standard conditions was that uv been mentored by someone with experience? sorry for all the questions if im pissing any1 off but im jus interested


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## crouchy (Jan 14, 2008)

possibly in some areas but not in the places ive lived


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

There's no requirement to be mentored, You have to demonstrate knowledge and experience............Which can be demonstrated by experience of similar non DWA snakes, field herping experience, assisting with other owners collections, basically anyhting that shows the inspecting officer that you're not a total noob with all the gear but no idea. Mentoring won't hurt you in your application, but it certainly isn't a requirement, although I suspect that there are those who would like it to be..............if only to get more "custom"?


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

"if only to get more "custom"?" 

I must admit of late this certainly seems to be the case. For me i would rather mentor someone for free and them take on the advise and be safe in there own collection than have someone enquire about mentoring for me to ask for a financial gain and them go underground and end up dead because of lack of knowledge and experience.

J


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

take it there are certain people who charge the earth for their mentoring then?


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

ps cheers for being so helpful every1


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

I know there are some who charge for "courses" and I would imagine there are others who do it for free, to ensure that new keepers are as prepared as possible for their new animals. TBH, the whole "mentoring" issue is, IMO, a timebomb waiting to go off in someone's face, it seems to have gathered a lot of momentum recently and it will only be a matter of time before local authorities pick up on this and make it a requirement of license issue, leaving the more "high profile" people highly in demand


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> take it there are certain people who charge the earth for their mentoring then?


There are people who are starting to make a financial gain from it yes. How much is unknown by me but seems a little strange as really they are getting help with there collection. Although i do know a few keepers actually change there insurance to allow for mentoring and obviously those costs need to be picked up.!

 
: victory:


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

i suppose if theyve got extra costs its fair enough to charge, iv found there rnt many people willing to mentor due to the fact they r worried about something happening to the people they train


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

what I found was when I looked into how to handle watched people ect, its pretty much common sense anyway, when your talking about day to day maintenance.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Tom_b said:


> There are people who are starting to make a financial gain from it yes. How much is unknown by me but seems a little strange as really they are getting help with there collection. Although i do know a few keepers actually change there insurance to allow for mentoring and obviously those costs need to be picked up.!
> 
> 
> : victory:


I would not like their insurance bills if they have added training to their liability insurance.....

As Stuart D has stated earlier in this thread the mentoring thing it a potential timebomb waiting to go off.

Can you imagine whats going to happen if a trainee gets nailed and the stink which will arise regardless of whether or not the the trainer is insured???

I suspect that the only persons who have insurance covering them for training will have a formal business under which they operate.

buyer beware comes to mind yet again.....


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Lets put it like this, Mr X runs "courses" in Venomous snake handling, he encourages his proteges to cite him and his course as a source of training on their DWA applications. His proteges obviously tell others and promote the "good news" of mentoring. local councils think that this is a good thing and start to insist on evidence of mentoring, M X is suddenly in demand for his "course" which people believe they "need" in order to get a DWAL. All of a sudden they do need to attend this "course" to get their license. Mr X is onto a winner.

Let's just stop for a second and go back, who qualified Mr X to teach? Who approved his methods as the most appropriate? Who ensures his teaching is of an acceptable and safe standard?
What happens if a license holder gets bitten and cries plaintively "but this was what Mr X taught me to do"...........
Now local authorities claim that if an "expert" can't do it right, then no-one can and we find DWA snakes and lizards legislated against and possibly banned from private collections.

Or am I making to many intellectual leaps to get to this conclusion?


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

Or am I making to many intellectual leaps to get to this conclusion?

I think you are spot on mate! 

"Slippery42" again i agree with you 110% mate, i really do not see where this is going. Look at the bad press the hobby recieved when Adam was bitten at the reptile zone, what an earth would it be like if someone got bitten in a private collection.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

didnt the guy that openly criticised reptile zone to do with the king bite, go there afterwards for a book signing?


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> didnt the guy that openly criticised reptile zone to do with the king bite, go there afterwards for a book signing?


I remember something stupid like that happened buddy.

:bash:


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

Anyone enrolling on one of these courses would be well advised to take the tutors insurance details and ensure that there is adequate cover in the event of an envenomation.
When making a claim against a public liability policy from an insurance company, it is usual to have to prove negligence, lack of duty of care or other breaches of health and safety from the policy holder. If you are unfortunate enough to have to make a claim, it may well prove extremely difficult as the policy holder could face public prosecution under the health and safety act if he admitted liability. He may also find it impossible to re-insure his public liability policy, therefore forcing him to cease trading.
I personally think this semi-professional "mentoring" nonsense should come to an end.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Perhaps the dealer in question would like to comment????

Over to you...............................................................


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

snake handling "mentoring" courses. Anyone enrolling on one of these courses would be well advised to take the tutors insurance details and ensure that there is adequate cover in the event of an envenomation.
When making a claim against a public liability policy from an insurance company, it is usual to have to prove negligence, lack of duty of care or other breaches of health and safety from the policy holder. If you are unfortunate enough to have to make a claim, it may well prove extremely difficult as the policy holder could face public prosecution under the health and safety act if he admitted liability. He may also find it impossible to re-insure his public liability policy, therefore forcing him to cease trading.
I personally think this semi-professional "mentoring" nonsense should come to an end.[/quote]
I think mentoring is a great idea I would pay good money for someone to teach me how to handle venomous snakes as I want to get a gaboon viper in a few years when i'm 18


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> I think mentoring is a great idea I would pay good money for someone to teach me how to handle venomous snakes as I want to get a gaboon viper in a few years when i'm 18



Looks like a current forum member has made a new name, check out the name "Mentor" and this is his/her first post


Fishy:devil:


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> I think mentoring is a great idea I would pay good money for someone to teach me how to handle venomous snakes as I want to get a gaboon viper in a few years when i'm 18


another belter of a 1st post!


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> another belter of a 1st post!


What do you mean?
I joined in this forum as I was told it was the best one to get info on venomous snakes and I find you are all being horrible to probably one of the best venomous snake keepers in the UK am I missing something?


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> horrible to probably one of the best venomous snake keepers in the UK am I missing something?


And who may that be..?

You?


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Declan123 said:


> And who may that be..?
> 
> You?


Not me altough I can handle my cornsnake without getting bitten


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Not me altough I can handle my cornsnake without getting bitten


Stuart is that you :whistling2: 

:no1::no1::no1:


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## GaryR (Sep 28, 2008)

In reply to the question of mentors,I too am self-taught.Having a mentor is not a DWA requirement here in N.Ireland.Can't comment on requirements across the water.


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## DASSIE (Jul 8, 2006)

mine was a rhombic night adder ...then there was several of them. Upgraded to copperheads and then went thermo nuclear to rattlers and cantils and cottons and puffies and vines and boomslang and spitters and blacks and greens and forests (proper forests from east south africa , not the little dinky ones from west africa !!) and then ammodytes and the list just grew and grew . Had to give them all up in the end as little kids arrived but i will have more again .......


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Declan123 said:


> Stuart is that you :whistling2:
> 
> :no1::no1::no1:


Of course it's not me, How could I say that I don't get bitten?
:lol2:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> I think mentoring is a great idea I would pay good money for someone to teach me how to handle venomous snakes as I want to get a gaboon viper in a few years when i'm 18


 
sign up here and bring your cheque book laddie!!!:2thumb:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> sign up here and bring your cheque book laddie!!!:2thumb:


what ever Stuart is charging i'll charge 50 pence less

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## PRS (Dec 31, 2007)

Tri Coloured Hognose is my first and only venomous atm although im interested in getting more hognoses and possibly a fwc.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

DASSIE said:


> mine was a rhombic night adder ...then there was several of them. Upgraded to copperheads and then went thermo nuclear to rattlers and cantils and cottons and puffies and vines and boomslang and spitters and blacks and greens and forests (proper forests from east south africa , not the little dinky ones from west africa !!) and then ammodytes and the list just grew and grew . Had to give them all up in the end as little kids arrived but i will have more again .......


where abouts are you in lancs if u dnt mind me askin?


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

The Gecko King :) said:


> Tri Coloured Hognose is my first and only venomous atm although im interested in getting more hognoses and possibly a fwc.


No offence meant here but both hognose snakes and false water cobras are rear fanged non dwa animals so nothing really to do with the topic. :2thumb:

Tom


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## VoodooWitchDoctor (Sep 3, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> Vipera ammodytes!
> 
> But I'd been working with berus for 20 years before that



What is the common name for these as I googled it and have come up with these or that viper?

Long nosed viper
Nosed Viper
Sand Viper

I am confused!


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

VoodooWitchDoctor said:


> What is the common name for these as I googled it and have come up with these or that viper?
> 
> Long nosed viper
> Nosed Viper
> ...


I have always known them as horned vipers however the general concensus in the venomous keeping side of things is everyone deals with latin names to aviod mis-identification.


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## VoodooWitchDoctor (Sep 3, 2008)

Tom_b said:


> I have always known them as horned vipers however the general concensus in the venomous keeping side of things is everyone deals with latin names to aviod mis-identification.


Cheers dude.
:2thumb:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ammodytes are usually referred to as nose horn viper or sand viper not come across them being called horned viper:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> ammodytes are usually referred to as nose horn viper or sand viper not come across them being called horned viper:Na_Na_Na_Na:


As said "I" have always known them as horned vipers :Na_Na_Na_Na: :lol2:
I am so pleased that the majority of hot keepers use latin, Makes it so much easier.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Every one knows them as "silly looking vipers"


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Every one knows them as "silly looking vipers"


My ammos are hurt by that phrase!!!!!!

Thats quite witty for you Stuart!!!:lol2::lol2::lol2:

you going to the toy snake fair tomorrow???:shock:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Well, I ask you, what self respecting venomous snake would want to go round with a bloody great wart on their nose?:lol2:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

stuartdouglas said:


> Well, I ask you, what self respecting venomous snake would want to go round with a bloody great wart on their nose?:lol2:


Grotbags? oh wait.... she's not a snake.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

Can I just state there have been numerous people coming to the reptile zone for some experience with venomous and we have not charged any of them, so maybe it would be nice if people got their facts right before quoting something


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

leptophis said:


> Can I just state there have been numerous people coming to the reptile zone for some experience with venomous and we have not charged any of them, so maybe it would be nice if people got their facts right before quoting something


:lol2::lol2: Experience so not "mentoring" anymore then is that because of all the bites you have been involed in?


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Oh for goodness sakes have people got nothing better to do than slate a couple of experienced handlers/keepers for giving up their free time to help others learn in as safe a way as possible - free of charge? Have any of you got the remotest idea how much work has gone into the preparation of this mentoring? All to help people and with no self gain.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Angi said:


> Oh for goodness sakes have people got nothing better to do than slate a couple of experienced handlers/keepers for giving up their free time to help others learn in as safe a way as possible - free of charge? Have any of you got the remotest idea how much work has gone into the preparation of this mentoring? All to help people and with no self gain.


Ok, lets discuss the work that's gone into the mentoring. Who developed and approved the training? What "curriculum" is being worked to? 

There is no body or organisation that regulates and approves the teaching of handling of venomous reptiles, there are no accepted standards that need to be achieved for anyone to say they are competent. All we have is the experience and best intentions of people.

Playing Devil's advocate here, who says they are the best qualified to teach? Who has agreed that the training provided is safe, and to an accepted standard? 

Answer.......nobody, that's the scary thing, if something goes wrong, there are no set standards to fall back on to say "we did it right"

As I said before, I don't recall anyone mentioning anybody or any shop by name..............


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

Think it was albino cobra if not then deff wdb......


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> :lol2::lol2: Experience so not "mentoring" anymore then is that because of all the bites you have been involed in?


Ouch, me feels this topic may just get closed :lol2:


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## Burmese (Jan 15, 2008)

I think you should all try shuting up about things and people you no nothing about.

I bet half off you have never even met pete blake or brian so who the hell are you lot to comment ?

And with regards to bite's they happen ? so i wuldnt be to quick to start judinging people because when it happens to one ( which it probally will at some point) you wouldnt want it.

This thread just shows the problems with this hobby that most of you are stuck up bunch of numptys who are far to quick to judge and are real experts hid behind a computer.


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## VoodooWitchDoctor (Sep 3, 2008)

Burmese said:


> I think you should all try shuting up about things and people you no nothing about.
> 
> I bet half off you have never even met pete blake or brian so who the hell are you lot to comment ?
> 
> ...


What is Reptile Zone?:bash:

I really don't know, it put me on an American site!

The Reptile Zone - Home


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Burmese said:


> I think you should all try shuting up about things and people you no nothing about.


im not getting involved but some people with alot of experience have been commenting on this thread in the last couple of pages.


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## Burmese (Jan 15, 2008)

true professionals would not come on a fourm and slag people off. I do not doubt that a few people on here do have previous experince but it does not make it right for them to come on here and start slagging people off.


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## VoodooWitchDoctor (Sep 3, 2008)

I am starting to think there may be a few personal grudges on this thread.

Not good man!

Everyone has their own opinions and tips, but there is a bad cloud approaching here.

Not nice.

This is how I ended getting banned from Repticzone forum. A thread just got out of hand, until I got chucked off because (and I honestly believe this) I was a Brit and they were predominantly Yanks, who couldn't take being wrong.

Kiss and make up lads and lasses!: victory:

As Ringo Star said 'PEACE AND LOVE, PEACE AND LOVE':lol2:


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Oh for goodness sake have you lot not realised that most of the venomous keepers here in the UK think that Pete should not be mentoring people at all. He has been keeping venomous for how long? Had is first dwa aplication turned down. How many bite's has he been involved in? (dont forget the ones at Ty's). He SHOULD NOt be mentoring people


Your in a world or your own if you think bites cant and wont happen. Pete may have been indirectly involved with several bites but this is only because he has many friends who work with venomous species in their own collections and with his. 

And stuart Douglas, the point you bought up about 'who says they are best qualified to teach', Pete has never said he is best qualified, but he is simply one of the few people willing to do so. He ensures everyone working with venomous species at his place does so as safely as they possibly can. 
And you say you never had any mentoring? After seeing the way you handle your Viridovipera vogelli 2 inches behind the head (outside of all places! God knows what you do when the camera isnt point at you), might be an idea to go and get some training.....


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

i personally have been involved with three bites one of which i happened to be in the room and one where it made the press unfortunately. People may see this as alot but in relation to other keepers its right along the average. There are alot more bites which have taken place and never make it onto the forums, there are professionals that have been bitten far more times, does this make them stupid, no it doesent, it is a risk of what we do. 

clearly there are on here some people who feel that a, i shouldnt mentor and b, that mentoring shouldnt take place. it is interesting that there have been two professional bodies who did training both stopped due to flack they took on the forums, to me thats sad, so is the way forward no training, ? perhaps it should be then, we spent alot of time and effort with the council coming up with a criteria which the council was happy with in regards to training which the health and safety dept was happy with, as i have always believed, people took the time to train me, therefore i have an obligation to do the same, i have always believed training was a better system than not training, should some body be set up to do it, personally i would be happy for that, as it would mean no hassle for me. I would be interested to know from the people who seem against mentoring or getting experience what the way forward is with is in relation to defras new guidelines which will make it even easier to get dwals.

Yup your right stuart, we did charge a fee for the booklets we produced and dvds we let people have. But this did not include the time we spent with people on countless saturdays. I know of two other places which charge for training, are they wrong, of course not, I come from a I.T. background where courses always had fees, so i have no problem with others charging for their time. It is the normal way in other fields.

SO i think the best way forward is for me is not to do training or giving experience in any form, which is fine is it gives me more personal time. I have always tried to just pass on the knowledge that others took the time to teach me. It is a shame that so many areas of our hobby get decimated by the forums and dont go forward. That the main organisations dont believe anything will change and that were on a slippery slope downwards, I have no problem being critisised as long as those who do step up and do something. Its all to easy to have a go but not step and make changes.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Right, I need to straighten out a couple of points that seem to have got twisted here:

1 Not once have I mentioned anyone, or any facility by name, not have I made any insinuations about the experience or abilities of anyone. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, then I will be only to happy to post a full and unreserved apology

2 I have no personal issues with anyone who chooses to "mentor" another in handling snakes or animals of any kind. That is their choice.

3. The issues I do have is that it is an unregulated, unlegislated system based upon a persons own experience that they have either developed or have been taught themselves and it sems to be gaining momentum as "the way forward" In this current litigant society, unless a person can back up their experience with recognised training and qualifications, then the whole thing is a timebomb waiting to go off. 

4. As for my handling of animals.......... I won't even discuss that in light of a picture that appeared for a short time on, I think it was Boamad forum, involving a Green mamba, freehandling and someones garden.:whistling2:

What I have done is ask questions.............the same sort of questions that a solicitor might ask when representing someone who decides to litigate after being mentored and subsequently suffering a bite.
Personally I would like to see a standardised course developed with recognised requirements, if only to protect those who put themselves in a very precarious legal position through acting out of best intentions.

Anyone got any further comments to make to/about me personally, do it via PM


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

this is a genuine question not a dig but how would a mentor stand if someone got bitten during a training session and the person decided it was the mentors fault, what legal protection does the mentor have, is there insurance that would cover this?


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> 4. As for my handling of animals.......... I won't even discuss that in light of a picture that appeared for a short time on, I think it was Boamad forum, involving a Green mamba, freehandling and someones garden.:whistling2:


You talk about twisting points you hypocrite, the mamba in question was never being 'free-handled' outside, it was restrained behind the head with 2 other experienced handlers there as back-up, and outside for all of 20 seconds! So get your freaking facts straight.

And you say you havent mentioned any institution by name, which is right, but it is blindingly obvious to anyone one here with more than one brain-cell who you were trying to refer to.

You also say you want to see a 'standardised course developed with recognised requirements', that is exactly what pete wants and was working towards, everything has to start somewhere, and like pete said, he was working with his council to develop this. So a nice big applause to you for trying to cut that one short.


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

This is like a witch hunt, totally ridiculous. A group of people, many whom have signed up with new user names, not willing to put their real names to what they say - throwing around a tonne of accusations regarding people they do not know, about training/mentoring which they have not observed.
This is precisely why I reduced the time I spend on forums such as this. I am so fed up with people tearing each other apart, and for what?

Stuart, you may wish to re-read the thread, our shop WAS mentioned more than once prior to my initial reply.

It seems like a few people have a grudge and are willing to go to any lengths to have a go/damage reputations. In the real world, how many of this group of people know the people they are condemning? How many know the facts behind their accusations?

Pete, Brian and others have worked so hard in attempting to put together some guidelines to help people learn and help keep them safe. Other knowledgeable and experienced venomous keepers around the UK and other areas of the world were consulted for constructive opinions to see if any of the training content could be improved upon and for advice. Countless hours of work has gone into production of an initial exam, reading material, a dvd, health and safety considerations - all with consultations with appropriate professionals. Pete and Brian love to share their passion for venomous snakes and do so to the best of their ability, they give their time regularly to help others (and not just with venomous snake related issues) and for what? for a bunch of trumped up know it alls to try and drag them down? 

Personally I think each and every one of you needs to take a long hard look at yourselves and work out what made you all so perfect. How do you all sleep at night after you have posted such a load of crap about people you do not even know?


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## mark elliott (Feb 5, 2007)

ah just found this. everyone will have there own ideas and oppinions on mentoring but for example most people will say a rifle is a dangerous weapon well yes but only in the wrong hands and most sane people would not use or point one around without some kind of training first as potentialy someone could be seriously injured or even killed which i believe imo is very similar to the world of venomous animals. i have had weapon trainig to a very high standard and therefore would recomend anyone with an interest in using them should undergo some kind of training for health and safety reasons after all you wouldn't just jump into a car and drive it without some kind of training first and a car can be just as deadly to yourself and others if you don't know how to handle it so personally i think that mentoring is a far better way than jumping in blind but this is just my opinion of course


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Angi said:


> Stuart, you may wish to re-read the thread, our shop WAS mentioned more than once prior to my initial reply.


Re-read my post too Angi, if you can find anywhere where I have mentioned your shop or any of the staff there, quote it and, as I said, I will be only too happy to post a full and unreserved apology. 

With regard to Aziemops...............I did say if you wanted to namecall any further do it via PM


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> With regard to Aziemops...............I did say if you wanted to namecall any further do it via PM


Youve said all you have to say on the open forums, i shall do the same


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

stuartdouglas said:


> Er, excuse me, but who quoted the reptile zone? The phrase of "if the cap fits....." springs to mind
> 
> Nobody as far as I'm aware mentioned anyone by name in this thread


 Look back to page 4 Stuart.

I did not accuse you personally in any of my posts. I do not make assumptions but go on the facts of what is written here for all to see. I merely replied.


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