# Vivarium Self Build - Recessed Lighting Question



## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

*Ikea Vivarium Self Build - Recessed Lighting Question*

Hello everyone,

This is my first post so go easy on me! I am in the process of building a custom made Vivarium for my 9 year old son. He is animal daft and after two years of asking we finally agreed to allow him a bearded dragon!

I am building a custom made Vivarium by integrating it into his existing furniture! There wasn't really any space in his room for a shop bought Vivarium and my wife insisted the Vivarium had to blend in with the rest of his room. So I am building it into an existing Ikea Kallax Storage Unit. Pics here...



















I have extended the depth of the unit and it's wide enough. The only draw back is it doesn't have much height.

After a lot of research the UVB lighting inside it will be as follows:

1050mm Arcadia-T5-Reptile-Lamp-Bulb-Tube-D3-Desert-12-UVB

Arcadia Electronic T5 Controller (54W)

I have also bought a 600watt Habitat Dimming Thermometer for the heat / basking lamp.

My problem now is I have no idea what type of heat / basking lamp to go for. Whatever I go for it will need to work with the Habistat Dimming Thermometer.

Due to the low heigh of my Vivarium I would like to fit a recessed heat / basking lamp. The lamp will be at one end the the rubbings of it hidden behind one of the cupboard doors. Has anyone got any recommendations?

I was thinking about 1 or 2 recessed Halogen lights. Just like the ones most people have in their ceilings. 

I am really confused about the whole heat / basking lamp thing. It's pretty daunting trying to choose the right type of lamp and then trying to get the temperatures right. I don't really want to go down the trial and error route as I am looking to save money whenever possible.

Any advise would be appreciated.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

How big is it? And the pics don't work.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply....

55cm deep
135cm wide
33cm high

Working on the pics!


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

The 54 Watt UVB bulb I have bought. Planning to mount it at the back of the Viv on the roof.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Arcadia Electronic T5 Controller (54W)


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Sorry having a nightmare trying work out how to upload a pic!


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Here is a pic I found in the internet. It looks as if they haven't even build it out at the back making it pretty shallow for a full sized Beardy....


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Same one again. Pic found online. Not my one....


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

I was thinking about something like this.....










But what Wattage should I go for? At £13 a pop I don't want to get the wrong one. Will this type of build work with my Habitat Dimming Thermometer?


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Sorry I give up trying to add an image! I can't even work out how to delete all my duff posts! 

Anyway I am aware the Vivarium is lacking height but I am still confident I will be able to let the Beardy climb a little bit. 

Like I said the plan is to mount whatever heat lamp I comp up with in the cupboards on the right hand side.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

I'd make it a little bit higher.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Ex0tic said:


> I'd make it a little bit higher.


I can't really....it's almost finished. I have seen pics of someone else who did the same as I have done with the same Ikea unit. I deliberately built the back out to give it more room, especially as it doesn't have much height. 

Like I saw the Beardy can effectively climb right up to the roof if I reset the light.

The only other option would be to make to top right hand box part of the Vivarium. i.e. have a tall part at one end (basking end). That's a bit more complicated to build and I don't want to loose all the storage on the top row. These will be used to house the plugs, thermometers, cricket pen, cleaning stuff etc. etc.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

I mean it should be fine its just they prefer to climb.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Finally I have worked out how to do pics!


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Ex0tic said:


> I mean it should be fine its just they prefer to climb.


Thanks,

Any advise on recessed lighting? What sort of size / wattage of light would I need to heat the Viv? I wish there was some sort of calculator to roughly work it out.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

Actually looks okay, Sorry. I'm not the best person to ask about heating and lighting for lizards. Hope someone else can help.


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## veektooru (Jul 16, 2016)

I recessed an exo terra CHE into a build and it works fine.

Reading through the whole thread, I'd think about using a reptile radiator.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

The issue is its only about a foot tall, minimum sizes of 4ft by 2ft by 2ft are about not just giving the animal enough room but also accommodating the lighting and still having safe distances from light source to animal.

33cm high will very quickly disappear, and you arent really going to be able to have a raised basking platform and any branches etc will need to be kept sevearl inches from the viv ceiling.

The animal should not be able to get within 8 to 10 inches of the UV bulb and should never be on the same horizontal plane, you also need about 25 to 30 cm gap from basking bulb surface to basking surface.

I dont actually think you will be able to balance the temps in a viv of those dimensions, bulb strength needed to reach to the cool end will mean the basking area is the ground level of the viv, and then throw in the UV and decorations.... its going to be a very very tight fit.

75W will be more than enough, and the dimming stat will work just fine on a halogen, but then you have the issue with how close the basking spot is.

50W will probably be your best bet.


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

Hi,

This needs a care rethink. It is not ethical not technologically effective to keep a dragon in a viv of 12" high. 

It will not have space to self regulate between heat and light properly and when climbing, which they need to do will receive a dose or UV index that is higher than could be found in the wild, thus increasing risk of dermal burn.

Min sizes for an effective safe system is 4x2x2 but ideally 5x2x3 for a single dragon.

So, you could look at a different species of this is the only size option. It would be possible to have a very nice leopard gecko enclosure here, all live arid planted and bio active.

There's always a work around 

Good luck

John


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## Giddzz (Jan 5, 2017)

tazhearts said:


> I was thinking about something like this.....
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Hey I use that bulb I a 4ft viv and get my Temps bang on should be fine for your application  

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## Giddzz (Jan 5, 2017)

tazhearts said:


> I was thinking about something like this.....
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Also I got mine from pets at home if your in the UK there only £4.50.

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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Azastral said:


> The issue is its only about a foot tall, minimum sizes of 4ft by 2ft by 2ft are about not just giving the animal enough room but also accommodating the lighting and still having safe distances from light source to animal.
> 
> 33cm high will very quickly disappear, and you arent really going to be able to have a raised basking platform and any branches etc will need to be kept sevearl inches from the viv ceiling.
> 
> ...


Thanks. My plan is to mount the heat lamp half way up the cupboard on the right. So the heat lamp will be about 50cm off the bottom of the Viv. I will box it in (hidden behind the cupboard) and cut a big square in the roof of the viv below that cupboard (hope that makes sense).

It will probably take a bit of trial and error getting the height of the heat lamp bulb just right. The beardy will still be able to climb up to a basking spot. 

So the basking spot will be say 20cm off the floor. The UVB light will be mounted on the roof right at the back of the Viv. So the basking spot will be 13cm below the UVB light. 

How does that sound?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Maybe worth considering extending up into the two end (white) cupboards ?? Just to give it a bit of climbing area and somewhere for you to fit the ceramic ??


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

I like you're thinking Zinc, I like you're thinking!:notworthy:


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Zincubus said:


> Maybe worth considering extending up into the two end (white) cupboards ?? Just to give it a bit of climbing area and somewhere for you to fit the ceramic ??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So you mean a high bit at either end? A high bit at the hot basking end and high bit at the cold end? 

Or do you mean two squares together at the basking end?

Only problem would be the UVB light would it not? If the beardy could climb two high it would end up eye level with it.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

tazhearts said:


> So you mean a high bit at either end? A high bit at the hot basking end and high bit at the cold end?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was thinking one high bit at each end - just to keep it symetrical ...




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

I have already ordered the sliding doors for the Viv and the tracks are fitted. Nothing stopping me putting more Acrylic on the top sections and just fixing it in place like a window?


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Zincubus said:


> I was thinking one high bit at each end - just to keep it symetrical ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see. Thanks. My plan was for the high bit at one side to be hidden. i.e. behind the cupboard door. Just making it higher in order to raise the hight of the basking light and so allowing the beardy to climb a bit higher up to a basking spot.

I think I will wait until the doors arrive and then start experimenting with the basking light height. 

I thought I read somewhere that while Beardy's like to climb it's not that essential as they don't really climb much in the wild. More important to give them floor space to move about / exercise?


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

that actually sounds pretty good. 


(Edit: You might want to put small 1 1/2 " plinths to attach you're sliders too then the window.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

This might do the trick....










Only £10. Will take a 50 Watt Dimable GU10 Halogen bulb. 

It recessed 150mm so it would give me the extra height I am looking for.

Just worried 50 Watt Halogen might not be enough to get the desired heat in the Viv. Would rather go for 75 Watt dimable than be left short.


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Im confused as to why is nobody barr 2 members pressing the point that this is not a suitable size for a bearded dragon???

Please folks stop discussing the lighting situation and lets discuss the dimentions, yes it is too low as we have established _ particularly using a T5 bulb which needs a larger distance from the basking site (in the case at floor level) than a normal T8 bulb.

aside from that how much extra depth has been built in ? The viv needs to be 2ft deep for an adult beardie otherwise he will not be able to turn around in it!
Thats without going into the very barely discussed height issue.

Please rethink this idea for the sake of the beardie.

Incidently I think the viv would look lovely built into that unit, perhaps think about a smaller species? a leopard gecko would be in heaven in a viv that size and would be able to live there comfortably for its entire life, where as a beardie will end up either ill from the lack of proper husbandry or will be stressed and bored out of its mind.

I dont mean to sound angry and I mean no disrespect to the OP but I cant believe people are actually answering the lighing question without discussing this


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

Or a corn or a royal?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Im confused as to why is nobody barr 2 members pressing the point that this is not a suitable size for a bearded dragon???
> 
> Please folks stop discussing the lighting situation and lets discuss the dimentions, yes it is too low as we have established _ particularly using a T5 bulb which needs a larger distance from the basking site (in the case at floor level) than a normal T8 bulb.
> 
> ...




Presumably it would be fine for a while whilst it's growing up ?

Then when the time is ready they could simply move up through the next layer up of cupboards - to get a better size for an adult BD ??

We wouldn't be worried if he was putting a 12" Corn snake in a Viv unsuitable for a 4'+ Corn snake ....


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## Satch (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm with Fizz, Az and Jon. Whilst a nice idea, that vivarium isn't suitable for an adult bearded dragon. (which it will become quickly). Not trying to sound snobby about it, but it just isn't humane. (i'd also be a bit worried about the stability when it's fully decked out. 

As advised either look for another species or a different set-up. I know that's dis-heartening to hear when your son wants a BD, your partner wants it to look smart and you've put the hard work in. But it would be entirely inappropriate to condone using that set-up.

Zinc, do you keep bearded dragons?
3 points, 
Just because a BD is small it's heating and lighting needs are the same as an adult which can't be safely provided in that space. It's not like a small colubrid that 'in theory' can be maintained in a box with a heat mat. 

Bearded dragons grow fast, the space won't be suitable for very long. 

I think it was implied this was intended to be the long term vivarium, it would be a lot of effort for 5 / 6 months.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Satch said:


> I'm with Fizz, Az and Jon. Whilst a nice idea, that vivarium isn't suitable for an adult bearded dragon. (which it will become quickly). Not trying to sound snobby about it, but it just isn't humane. (i'd also be a bit worried about the stability when it's fully decked out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whilst I have no experience of keeping Bearded Dragons the problem seemed to be space and as he can practically double the volume by using the upper cupboard I just figured that it could be an option .


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

My problem was as much the depth as the height, given that an adult beardie will likely be around 2ft in length. If it is just for growing up in then of course it would be ok as long as the temperature gradient is right a dn UV bulb can be positioned far enough away from the basking site.

I was working on the assumption that it was to be a permenant viv as that is how it seemed. Apologies if I am wrong 

As mentioned they grow fast so if it were to be used as a baby viv then the building of an adult viv would need to start asap after this oneis finished. As I said its a lovely idea but just not for a beardie


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Fizz said:


> My problem was as much the depth as the height, given that an adult beardie will likely be around 2ft in length. If it is just for growing up in then of course it would be ok as long as the temperature gradient is right a dn UV bulb can be positioned far enough away from the basking site.
> 
> I was working on the assumption that it was to be a permenant viv as that is how it seemed. Apologies if I am wrong
> 
> As mentioned they grow fast so if it were to be used as a baby viv then the building of an adult viv would need to start asap after this oneis finished. As I said its a lovely idea but just not for a beardie




As regards depth , 55 cm is only a shade under 2' so what's the recommended depth for a BD ?


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

The recommended minimum is 2ft so actually not that far off, I didnt see 55cm written anywhere apologies, that is no where near as dire as I had thought from the pictures. I expect as long as theres not a 3d background going in to take up any further depth it would pass as acceptable, more so if the height can be extended 

Again if the height can be added too I would still use a T8 bulb instead for UV ( John knows more than me about this of course but I believe that T5's need to be atleast 11inches or so from the lizard at any given time?)


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

2' high really is the minimum safe height for any lamp. The animal must be given access through climbing to both a photo and a thermal gradient. If the viv is too shallow it cannot regulate properly.

Now, a 12% T5 provides an upper index basking amount of energy at 12" from the lamp to the dragons head at the basking point. So, think about substrate depth and the depth of the lamp and of course any branches. Getting closer than 12" elevates the index to a higher quantity and could end up as an over supply,

Take that with DragonLamp where optimum power is at 15" from the lamp.

What we need are systems that are far enough away from the head to reduce and glare irritation risk but that also provide the correct energy at that distance.

In the sizes stated by the OP of 12" high and of using DragonLamp given just an inch of substrate and even of the poor thing spent its life on the floor with no climbing it would still be over supply by 30%.

This can lead to dermal burns and all sorts, especially if it had no choice but to expose.

Ideally I want to see a size of 5'x3'x2 or even 3' for a single animal, in an ideal world that is

John



Fizz said:


> The recommended minimum is 2ft so actually not that far off, I didnt see 55cm written anywhere apologies, that is no where near as dire as I had thought from the pictures. I expect as long as theres not a 3d background going in to take up any further depth it would pass as acceptable, more so if the height can be extended
> 
> Again if the height can be added too I would still use a T8 bulb instead for UV ( John knows more than me about this of course but I believe that T5's need to be atleast 11inches or so from the lizard at any given time?)


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks John


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## Marti3P (Sep 5, 2010)

Really don't think anyone should house a Beardie any age in a Viv like that, as people said a Leopard Gecko would be more suitable there are other lizards that could go in one that size, a smaller species. 

Regarding the light fixture you loaded an image of I'd be careful of the heat being generated by a basking bulb, it looks plastic and could melt or give off toxic fumes, can't really see what type of bulb it has in it on the photo.

Plus I'd make sure all the joins are siliconed with reptile safe silicone not sure what crappy glues Ikea use in their particle board so you don't want any water or pee causing issues with the wood or vinyl warping.

Id defo listen to John he is Arcadia and knows his stuff!

Phil


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Don't bother with branded halogen bulbs - Any Par38 flood bulb is fine and can be found at a fraction of the cost. I get large 120w bulbs from CEF for less than a fiver each and TLC (online) have smaller ones for less.


A dimming stat is what you will need for the heat bulb yes.

Re the viv size - 4fr x 2ft x 2ft is the absolute minimum for a BD. Does it HAVE to be a BD? If it does then that unit is just too small.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks for your advice everyone. I have taken it all on board and have decided to make the Viv taller.

The Viv now measures:

57cm Deep (1.8 foot)
135cm Long (4.4 foot)
66cm Tall (2.1 foot)

Unfortunately I have already ordered the Acrylic doors so am going to be £25 out of pocket :eek4:

Anyway I am now looking for some advice on the pelmets for the top and the bottom of the Viv. I would like to fit the UVB at the front of the viv ands don't want to see it so the top pelmet will have to be deep enough to hide the lights.

I don't want to bottom pelmet to be so high. Just high enough to prevent Dubia Roaches easily scurrying out.

Can someone with a shop bought viv tell me how tall your bottom and top pelmets are.

I am also slightly nervous about the Acrylic being a bit bend if each sheet is going to be tall. The Acrylic will be 6mm thick.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Will the strength or stability be affected now you've taken out another row of uprights?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

tazhearts said:


> Thanks for your advice everyone. I have taken it all on board and have decided to make the Viv taller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You could use the acrylic doors for the next project 


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

tazhearts said:


> Thanks for your advice everyone. I have taken it all on board and have decided to make the Viv taller.
> 
> The Viv now measures:
> 
> ...


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## Marti3P (Sep 5, 2010)

Bearded Dragon, I'd assume so the light isn't shining out into the room as much, I did the same with the Jungle Carpet, she didn't like it much so its out now she uses the guard as a hide every now and then though. 




murrindindi said:


> tazhearts said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your advice everyone. I have taken it all on board and have decided to make the Viv taller.
> ...


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Stephen P said:


> Will the strength or stability be affected now you've taken out another row of uprights?


No it's fine. Hasn't made any difference to the strength or stability.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

I am still at a loss as to what kind of basking light to buy and install. Ideally I don't want anything that hangs down to low. I still have the option of recessing the basking light into the roof of the Viv as he light fitting etc will be hidden by / contained within the top right hand cupboard.

Aesthetically I'd prefer the UVB and basking light to be hidden by the top pelmet.

I'm also planning (eventually) on building my own polystyrene background / rocks / basking rock. So I will be able to choose exactly how high the basking spot will be.

So what light will go best with my Habistat Dimming Thermometer? What are my options?


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

As far as a baskinglight goes the bulb will need to be a light emmiting one - ususally recomened is a halogen flood bulb (not spot) par30-38. This gives a nice basking area of bright light and costs you less to heat than a normal spot bulb. 
You could build it into the top as you suggest, I would only do this if you can be aure of air supply around the bulb/ fitting as it will get very hot. Personally I if I wanted to have the light out of the viv I would cut a hole to rest a dome on, that would minimize the messing around with wires etc.

With the new height there shouldnt be a problem with mounting the light inside the viv using a ceramic light fitting screwed straight into the ceiling the bulb wont NEED to have a dome or reflector to work effectively inside the viv as these bulbs focus their light towards the ground.

a dimmerstat is your only option when it comes to statting a light source otherwie the constant on/ off will blow the bulb and drive the lizard and your son crazy! There are lots of different brands I have only tried habistat and microclimate stats and dont really have a preference. 
Substrate wise remember to allow enough space for a good couple of inches of dirt ./ sand or whatever you decide to use and then add on your dubia barrier (do remember that they can climb once they find a grip, I have found a dubia crawling across my living room floor after having escapes the ackie viv at one point  As long as your glass doors arent too far apart this shouldnt be a problem I think as mine have a fair gap between them due to the design of the viv)

I hope this helps


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

An update.

Viv coming on well now. I have still not decided on the heat lamp! Still confused. I think I would like to go for a halogen one as it will last longer and be cheaper in the long run.

We have decided to build our own rock background, basking rock, platforms, hides etc. using polystyrene and grout etc. I priced up the self adhesive vivarium background wallpaper but I reckon for a wee bit more money (and lots of free labour) we could build something much smarter. Particularly when you figure in the cost of Vivarium decorations such as Bamboo Roots (£34 for a large one) etc.

Going to need to buy brown grout to grout the tiles anyway so can use the remaining grout for our polystyrene rocks and background.

I think I am correct in saving the higher up I get the heat lamp (possibly recessed) the higher we will be able to build the basking platforms etc and effectively the more floor space we will create in the Viv.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

That's looks so ace!!! I didn't expect it to look that good! I wish I could have something like that in my bedroom but my tarantulas take it all up ): Can't wait to see this background I need ideas for a new one : victory::2thumb: 


Edit: May I add that expanding foam is good to use too but you have to use it all at once!


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

UVB light now fitted with reflector. Pelmet installed so you can't see it when looking into the Viv. Pelmet is 11cm wide so will try to make sure whatever basking light I end up with doesn't protrude any further down than 10cm.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Pic of inside the top righthand cupboard. 

This is where the basking light will be wired up to / plugged into. As you can see I could put a dome basking light in the cupboard (although they are pretty pricey.

Or fit a standard ceiling recessed halogen spotlight holder into it.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks Ex0tic.

Never build a 3D background or rocks so a bit nervous! Especially when it comes to painting it as I not artistic in the slightest. 

I am however looking forward to getting my son involved in building / designing the rocks and basking platforms. 

Just ordered some sky blue effect fablon for the ceiling of the Viv....


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## Fizz (Jan 18, 2014)

If its any help, I found celotex boards are lovely for carving. Much easier than polystyrene (although I would seal the edges down f you are going to use celotex to keep moisture and crickets out from behnid it)


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

Could I ask as to why you have used tiles rather than going for a more suitable, natural substrate, such as play sand or a soil / sand mix?


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## veektooru (Jul 16, 2016)

A couple of pics of how i recessed a CHE. You will need a router though.


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

I use Celotex for some Arboreal Spider Backgrounds I get one of those round drill bits with the metal wool brushing kind of things and go crazy on it and it makes it look really good... I used to use those boards when I made War Table maps for GamesWorkShop...


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Fizz said:


> If its any help, I found celotex boards are lovely for carving. Much easier than polystyrene (although I would seal the edges down f you are going to use celotex to keep moisture and crickets out from behnid it)


Thanks. But I have already ordered Polystyrene on ebay.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)




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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Fake rock background and basking platform build begins. This is a much bigger job than I thought!


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## Ex0tic (Sep 12, 2016)

May I ask how someone is so skilled at near to everything?


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

Ex0tic said:


> May I ask how someone is so skilled at near to everything?


Lol thanks. I wouldn't say skilled. I am a tight Scotsman who refuses to pay for something when I can do / build it myself. The internet is great for picking up hints and tips for stuff.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

So the grouting begins. Wow this is a time consuming process. Suddenly a stick on background and a £30 log from Pets At Home doesn't seem too bad!

I beginning to rush things now. It's dragging in a bit.


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

A bridge too far.....

I am hopeless at art / drawing so decided to make the design up as a I go along instead of planning it all out first on paper.

I now need to come up with some sort of bridge to let Beardie get from one platform to the other! The one on the right will be the basking spot.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

As per a previous post, are you not adding a substrate?


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## tazhearts (Jan 10, 2017)

MikeO233 said:


> As per a previous post, are you not adding a substrate?


Not to start with I was going to go with the tile. It's got a decent rough surface. I have read various opinions online re the pro's and con's of substrate such as sand (compaction etc.). Tiles sound good as it will make the cleaning of poo etc. easier.


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## MikeO233 (Sep 14, 2014)

That isn't a view shared by most experienced keepers.

Impaction is not an issue if you have the right setup and keep the lizard in good health through proper feeding, suppliments, heating, ligthing etc.

They need a substrate in order to carry out normal behaviour (digging) and replicate their wild environment. We also shouldn't make decisions based on what is best for us - always what is best for the animal.

It's your choice of course.


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