# TUG/Co-Dom Snow Questions - any updates ?



## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Folks,

just wondered if there had been any movement/clarification in the way co-dom snow and TUG are working together ?
I'm asking as I recently got a Mack/TUG enigma (het bell) leo who I was 'expecting to be 'snow' and I'm starting to think he's looking very 'yellow' to be snow anything.

Which is gonna be a real b:censor:r to be honest as I wanted him to pair with my bell supersnow females for possible supersnow bell enigmas next year....
May have to wait a year longer for that one then ! :bash:


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Big Red One said:


> Folks,
> 
> just wondered if there had been any movement/clarification in the way co-dom snow and TUG are working together ?
> I'm asking as I recently got a Mack/TUG enigma (het bell) leo who I was 'expecting to be 'snow' and I'm starting to think he's looking very 'yellow' to be snow anything.
> ...


No one has proven any theories to be true so its just exactly that at the moment theories. Its not actually that hard and I know a few people that are well on their way to proving if any offspring from a TUG/Mack SS x Normal are in fact TUG.

In your case im guessing the parents were TUG snow Enigma x Mack snow bell (just going on the word recently and my knowledge of any Tug snow bells or tug snow bell enigmas).
Which to my understand would mean anything that hatches snow looking could either be TUG snow or Mack snow, not both. If it was both it would be a Super snow which is clearly distinguishable from TUG/Mack snows.

Just because your gecko is going yellow doesnt mean its not mack nor TUG snow. If it hatched black and white then its a snow of some description, think of how diluted most mack snows are.... its the way TUG snows are going too.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks Sam,

I know the yellowing isn't definitive and only breeding will fully test it out, it was more a gut feel that got me wondering again really. That and the idea that
it might be possible for co-dom X TUG to produce normals....

This was the little un originally..with Gazz's 'prediction based on parentage:

*'Mack Snow Eclipse Reverse Stripe Het Raptor x Tug Snow Red Eyed Enigma' *

*IMO Codom snow enigma HET Balbino,Eclipse/Poss-HET Talbino.*
*







*

I'd say it's looking a lot more 'normal yellow' coloured than it does in that pic, the orangey banding has gone and he's spottier, will try and get a pic up later.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

From yesterday...


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Big Red One said:


> Thanks Sam,
> 
> I know the yellowing isn't definitive and only breeding will fully test it out, it was more a gut feel that got me wondering again really. That and the idea that
> it might be possible for co-dom X TUG to produce normals....
> ...


I think the TUG Snow red eyed enigma was one i private messaged someone about to see who owned it and if they had any for sale and then never got a reply.

I agree with gazz if the parents were Mack snow eclipse het RAPTOR x TUG Snow Bells enigma then the gecko has been labelled wrongly and is, X Enigma het Bells and eclipse poss het Tremper. 
I say X Enigma, because im not made up on whether its a snow (be it TUG or mack) or Normal.
How old was it in that pic and have you got any younger pics?


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Sam,

there's no pics other than those two (the original and the one I took yesterday). I haven't got any 'hatchling pics' to see what it showed when first hatched, which is a shame now !

Like you I'm not convinced it's either type of snow at the moment, as I mentioned originally.... 
I suspect maybe just 'enigma' with the hets, ah well, I might still try him with the SSBell lady next year, see what occurs ! It would be nice to know though for sure...!


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Big Red One said:


> Sam,
> 
> there's no pics other than those two (the original and the one I took yesterday). I haven't got any 'hatchling pics' to see what it showed when first hatched, which is a shame now !
> 
> ...


I would definately try him with the SSBell because i pressume your original plan was for SSBell Enigmas?
So if he is snow then you'll get them, if not you'll still get SnowBell Enigmas which will give you the opportunmity to produce them the season after.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Big Red One said:


> Thanks Sam,
> 
> I know the yellowing isn't definitive and only breeding will fully test it out, it was more a gut feel that got me wondering again really. That and the idea that
> it might be possible for co-dom X TUG to produce normals....
> ...


Two things are for sure from a Dom snow to a Codom snow breeding you DO get Normals and you DO get super snows.It the middle ground that noone is sure of.IMO the picture posted is a snow type you have to remember that snows are not what they where when they first came out.And it has Eclipse blood there for RAPTOR blood so tangerine influance will be strong.IMO It looks to be a snow with tangerine influance so has a diluted tangerine look.

Me and Lovegeckos had a chat between us we came up with three possible ways that Dom snow and Codom snow "COULD" work to gether.All three plausible.

*[1]-My line of think.*
*That codom converts dom into codom.*

*[1C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*25%Normal.*
*50%Codom snow.*
*25%Super snow.*
*----*
*[1C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*25%Normal.*
*50%Codom snow.*
*25%Super snow.*
*===*
*[1C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*50%Codom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*
*----*
*[2C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*50%Codom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*
*=====*
*[2]-Lovegeckos line of thinking.*
*Works on a thinking of switchs and bypass.*

*[1C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*25%Normal.*
*25%Codom snow.*
*25%[1C]Dom snow.*
*25%Super snow.*
*----*
*[2C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*50%[1C]Dom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*
*===*
*[1C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*50%Codom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*
*----*
*[2C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*100%Super snow.*
*=====*
*[3]-Another possible out come i came up with.*
*Works on a thinking of switchs and bypass bit differant results as [2].*

*[1C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*25%Normal.*
*25%Codom snow.*
*25%[1C]Dom snow.*
*25%Super snow.*
*----*
*[2C]Dom snow X Codom snow = .*

*25%[1C]Dom snow.*
*50%Codom snow.*
*25%Super snow.*
*===*
*[1C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*25%[1C]Dom snow.*
*25%Codom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*
*----*
*[2C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*50%[2C]Dom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Cheers Gazz/Sam,

seeing as I can't pick even 3 numbers on the lottery these days I'm sure it'll be 'normal' enigma, but I can see where you're coming from Gazz regarding the RAPTOR tangerine influence etc.

Does look like it'll be a suck it and see next year, suppose it makes ita ll the more interesting, especially if SSbell enigma's pop out at some point !

All interesting stuff guys...:2thumb:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

gazz said:


> Me and Lovegeckos had a chat between us we came up with three possible ways that Dom snow and Codom snow "COULD" work to gether.All three plausible.


First way is for the possibility that the dominant snow mutant gene and the codominant snow mutant gene can be in the same gene pair.

Second way is for the possibility that the dominant snow mutant gene and the codominant snow mutant gene are in two different gene pairs.

Third way is unnecessary, as far as I can tell. For example, the fourth mating is part 3 is *
[2C]Dom snow X Super snow = .*

*50%[2C]Dom snow.*
*50%Super snow.*

I had been assuming that a super snow has two copies of the codominant snow mutant gene and zero copies of the dominant snow mutant gene. That works in sets 1 and 2 of the three mating sets. But the only way for a baby to get two copies of the dominant snow mutant gene is for the super snow to have a copy of the dominant snow mutant gene and a copy of the codominant snow mutant gene (one gene pair). OR the super snow has a dominant snow mutant gene paired with a normal gene and two copies of the codominant snow mutant gene (two gene pairs).

To decide between the one gene pair and two gene pair hypotheses, get a super snow from a one-copy dominant snow X one-copy codominant snow. Mate it to a normal. If there are any normal babies, then there are two gene pairs. If there are only one-copy dominant snows and one copy codominant snow in 20 babies, then the odds are greater than 99% probability that the one gene pair hypothesis is right.


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