# Help for sven



## Maike (Dec 9, 2010)

Dear members,

i think many people here know´s about the situation of Sven Köppler in 
the USA.
I´m his girlfriend.
A lot of people had ask how it´s possible to help Sven and i´m very 
thankfull to know that here are so many user who want´s to regarded him.
Sven´s attorney and the costs for his trial in the USA are very 
expensive, so for the member who want´s to help Sven, the best way is to 
do that in money.

For the people who wants to support Sven, please pay what ever you want 
on my Paypal account: [email protected]

Be sure that every cent will only be used to support Sven.

Thanks a lot in the name of Sven, kindest regards,
Maike

btw...i know that surely not everyone will agree with this thread, but 
please use for discussions not this thread.
Thanks onesmore.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Hi Maike
This idea has appealed to a number of people and some have contacted me but everyone wants to be assured that the monies collected actually go to someone that represents Sven.
I have Sven on Facebook - if you are his girlfriend Im sure you could access, or possibly Sven could access this and confirm who you are. I think that would give it some credibility. If this is possible please pm me and I'll provide my full name.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Hi Maike
> This idea has appealed to a number of people and some have contacted me but everyone wants to be assured that the monies collected actually go to someone that represents Sven.
> I have Sven on Facebook - if you are his girlfriend Im sure you could access, or possibly Sven could access this and confirm who you are. I think that would give it some credibility. If this is possible please pm me and I'll provide my full name.


I agree with this too.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

+1

You'd have to be loopy to send it direct as it stands


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## Michael Scheller (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi,

i´m also new here, but i think some members should know me.
I could confirm that Maike is indeed the girlfriend of Sven.

Think Sven is very well known here and i think i dont need to explain that he is in a very hard situation...

Best wishes,
Michael


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Agree with all above.

People are scammed enough on here for them to be able to properly trust people.
2 people with 1 post each, joining up today... sorry, but to be believed with no evidence you'd have to either have some idiot people or lots of luck!

Of course, I will take all back if it's confirmed you're not scamming.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Michael Scheller said:


> Hi,
> 
> i´m also new here, but i think some members should know me.
> I could confirm that Maike is indeed the girlfriend of Sven.
> ...


The name of Michael Scheller is well known here, however I'll be honest, you've registered today, had one post, and suddenly pop up supporting someone who (no offence intended) looks like they _might_ be trying to scam people.

I'm not saying you aren't Michael Scheller, just that I don't _think _you are...


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

yeah i'll send my hard earned money to someone i don't know who may or may not be legit ( no offence but i doubt many people will do this )

good luck though 
Ty


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

Are you able to supply full details of the attourney office who is dealing with Sven?


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## Michael Scheller (Dec 9, 2010)

Hedgewitch said:


> The name of Michael Scheller is well known here, however I'll be honest, you've registered today, had one post, and suddenly pop up supporting someone who (no offence intended) looks like they _might_ be trying to scam people.
> 
> I'm not saying you aren't Michael Scheller, just that I don't _think _you are...


Hi,

ok i understand. Any idea how i could proved my identy?
Maybe you could sent a message via the contact form of my page:
Michael Scheller - Vogelspinnenzucht und Handel - per E-Mail

When you receive a reply from me, that must be a prove, or?? 

Cheers, Michael


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Hi Michael, Ive contacted you through your site. A reply to the address I mentioned at the bottom would help, please.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

Hedgewitch said:


> That saves me the time Pete.


lol I've already done it and got a reply


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

That saves me the time Pete.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> I'll leave it up to you to go and assure all the other forums then


Nah you can do that. You are probably a member on more forums than me anyway.


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## Michael Scheller (Dec 9, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> Hi Michael, Ive contacted you through your site. A reply to the address I mentioned at the bottom would help, please.


Hi Peter,
it´s done. Hope you believe me now.
Michael

edit...this is no joke or a scamming attempt, it´s also for Maike a really hard time..


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

snowgoose said:


> lol I've already done it and got a reply



I'll leave it up to you to go and assure all the other forums then


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Apologies, I take back all insinuations and accusations.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Hedgewitch said:


> Apologies, I take back all insinuations and accusations.


As do I


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## peewee12 (Sep 9, 2008)

Whats Happend?


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Why is Sven facing charges in the US? :gasp:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

bobby said:


> Why is Sven facing charges in the US? :gasp:


sent a lot of T's over there, I believe it was mainly relating to Brachys on CITES and there was no paperwork, possibly some aren't allowed in the state he wanted to send them too, but CITES comes to mind.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

bobby said:


> Why is Sven facing charges in the US? :gasp:


Not going into detail here, but if you google it tells you


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

If they ask you to go to America for that, i'm going to post some over there! Hmm i wonder if i could post them to hawaii..


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Apparently you can get up to 20 years in Federal Prison?

That seems extreme....you wouldn't get that for rape.....



_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> If they ask you to go to America for that, i'm going to post some over there! Hmm i wonder if i could post them to hawaii..


:lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Michael,

Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven? 

I'll be the bad guy and say it: I'm finding it hard to think of reasons to support the guy given the nature of the charges. As far as I can see, it's his own fault for ignoring the law and cutting corners with permits (at least that is the nature of the alleged charges), so the notion of sending money out there to aid is a bit baffling to me. 

I'm just finding this recent support extremely hard to make sense of: support of this surely leads one to believe they are supporting wildlife crime in general?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I would also like to add the american response thus far:

American Tarantula Society Discussion Board • View topic - Tarantula Smuggler Caught

I feel they have some interested and balanced posts, amongst some others.


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

GRB said:


> Michael,
> 
> Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven?
> 
> ...


i was kind of thinking the same thing?


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

I think it's a bit rude to come begging on the forum... I mean fair enough if people want to support him, but just seems like begging to me.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> I think it's a bit rude to come begging on the forum... I mean fair enough if people want to support him, but just seems like begging to me.


Hi, I'm Jesus' wife, spare 50p guv'ner?

Take with a pinch of salt.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

vivalabam said:


> I think it's a bit rude to come begging on the forum... I mean fair enough if people want to support him, but just seems like begging to me.


Can you honestly say you wouldn't do the same if you were facing that kind of charge?

Sounds to me like he made a mistake and got caught, I don't think he deserves anything like the maximum sentence, I don't think many people deserve that kind of time in a foreign prison...


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> Hi, I'm Jesus' wife, spare 50p guv'ner?
> 
> Take with a pinch of salt.


LOL! :lol2:



bobby said:


> Can you honestly say you wouldn't do the same if you were facing that kind of charge?
> 
> Sounds to me like he made a mistake and got caught, I don't think he deserves anything like the maximum sentence, I don't think many people deserve that kind of time in a foreign prison...


No not really... It would be my problem which I'd have to get out of, I just think it should have been something people could do off their own back. Like they wanted to give money to him rather than begging on a forum. 

I do get that a lot of people support him and I'm not disputing that, but from an outsider who doesn't know him, it's just what it looks like. 

No definitely not I don't agree that he should get that long in prison for that, but at the end of the day he did break the law and I suppose he will be punished 'fairly'. 

(Notice fairly in the brackets, I think America is far from fair with their punishments)


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I would be willing to help but i need proof that it is you Mike and not someone making the most out of his misfortune


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## Maike (Dec 9, 2010)

selina20 said:


> I would be willing to help but i need proof that it is you Mike and not someone making the most out of his misfortune


please write me a pm.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

GRB said:


> Michael,
> 
> Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven?
> 
> ...


I have to agree Grant but I think the support maybe a desire to get one over on "the man"  added to the fact a few people have been hinting this was entrapment which as the posts you linked to on the ATS board point out it was not.

But all that said no ill will to Sven on my part, times are hard right now and money is not easy come by but he should have been more careful, but even then who is most to blame the dealer/breeder who agreed to brown box the spiders or the US buyers for making the deals in the first place? im sure most of them would have known they were breaking either federal and/or international laws.


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## Michael Scheller (Dec 9, 2010)

GRB said:


> Michael,
> 
> Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven?
> 
> ...


Hi GRB,

the only reason why i had write in this thread is to prove that Maike is the girlfriend of Sven.
I have the same occupation as Sven and it´s surely not positive for my business to post my personal meaning about Sven´s fault into a public forum. 
Hope you could accept and understand that i won´t post more to this subject.

Thanks,
Michael


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

> Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven?
> 
> I'll be the bad guy and say it: I'm finding it hard to think of reasons to support the guy given the nature of the charges. As far as I can see, it's his own fault for ignoring the law and cutting corners with permits (at least that is the nature of the alleged charges), so the notion of sending money out there to aid is a bit baffling to me.
> 
> I'm just finding this recent support extremely hard to make sense of: support of this surely leads one to believe they are supporting wildlife crime in general?


 


Oderus said:


> I have to agree Grant but I think the support maybe a desire to get one over on "the man"  added to the fact a few people have been hinting this was entrapment which as the posts you linked to on the ATS board point out it was not.
> 
> But all that said no ill will to Sven on my part, times are hard right now and money is not easy come by but he should have been more careful, but even then who is most to blame the dealer/breeder who agreed to brown box the spiders or the US buyers for making the deals in the first place? im sure most of them would have known they were breaking either federal and/or international laws.


Big Plus 1 from me on both accounts

@Michael Scheller I quite understand why you will not post more on this.


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## Orbiter (Sep 1, 2010)

GRB said:


> Michael,
> 
> Any chance you could suggest some reasons to support Sven?
> 
> ...


I have to agree with GRB, in my eyes he has ignored all regulations which he knows all about, I won't support a man that breaks the law. That is all I have to say.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I intend posting more on this subject in due course but after emailing both Maike and Michael Sheller I can confirm the funds are being collected by Sven's girlfriend. 

IMO Sven has possibly broken International laws but not in the way that the laws were created. When we talk of "smuggling" - a word brandished by much of the press - I usually assign this to taking animals out of the country of origin. What I believe Sven is doing is actively breeding many species to reduce the amount taken from the country of origin. I realise there are other arguments and I realise this is only one part of the argument but its a part I believe I will support.
There's a demand for Brachypelma species, that demand will find a source, I'd much rather support the European source than the country of origin source.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> IMO Sven has possibly broken International laws but not in the way that the laws were created. When we talk of "smuggling" - a word brandished by much of the press - I usually assign this to taking animals out of the country of origin.


'Smuggling' as I use it refers to ignoring laws on importing / exporting animals and goods.

How do you ensure this scenario is legitimate anyway? Say I could legally export _Brachypelma _out of Mexico into another country, then I re-import them illegally somewhere else. Is this somehow _better_ than if I smuggled them out of Mexico in the first instance?


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## Orbiter (Sep 1, 2010)

See AB's take on things read

*Please note that we will not allow for any PayPal address, bank account number or similar to be posted. That falls under soliciting our members which we do not allow. *


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## Blurboy (Feb 9, 2007)

From what I read on the link he appears to have not used paperwork which is required by law so in black and white it appears he's broken the law. So as much as it seems his breeding program and sale of CB spiders can be applauded, his lack of paperwork seems to be an act of shooting oneself in the foot. If I'm wrong and have read it wrong on this then I apologise but that's how it appears to me.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

GRB said:


> 'Smuggling' as I use it refers to ignoring laws on importing / exporting animals and goods.


yes, technically thats smuggling but that's not how I view this instance. However if the figure quoted is 21e then its hard to see why he would avoid such a fee.



> How do you ensure this scenario is legitimate anyway? Say I could legally export _Brachypelma _out of Mexico into another country, then I re-import them illegally somewhere else. Is this somehow _better_ than if I smuggled them out of Mexico in the first instance?


I don't believe that's what has happened. I believe the stock Sven sold was captive bred under his supervision, and therefore he sold his own captive bred stock. I have no proof, that's just what I believe, and that's what he has offered for sale for a number of years. You'll note in ATS that most of the Brachypelma imported into the US comes from Europe.

I haven't yet donated, but I have made the first step of ensuring the contacts are genuine.

I've also been informed that yesterday was Svens deposit trial. 
He could get out of the prison for $50.000 and $50.000 security.
Its possible Sven's family will bail for the security and the money will be payed from Svens parents. Its hopefully he will be free tomorrow, but I expect his passport will be withheld.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> When we talk of "smuggling" - a word brandished by much of the press - I usually assign this to taking animals out of the country of origin.


if smuggling means:-

*Smuggling* is the clandestine transportation of goods or persons past a point where prohibited, such as out of a building, into a prison, or across an international border, in violation of applicable laws or other regulations.

how can you say or take it to mean only a version of what it means?




Poxicator said:


> What I believe Sven is doing is actively breeding many species to reduce the amount taken from the country of origin.


that or he breeding because it is fun and a good source to make a little extra cash.



Poxicator said:


> I realise there are other arguments and I realise this is only one part of the argument but its a part I believe I will support.


that sounds more like hearing only what you want to hear.



Poxicator said:


> There's a demand for Brachypelma species, that demand will find a source, I'd much rather support the European source than the country of origin source.


 you would rather support the european smuggled source of captive bred brachypelma rather than the the licenced exporter in Mexico that has been exporting captive bred brachypelma sp, to the US for a number of years now.
Thats lick a nice kick in the teeth for the bloke who goes out his way to help the hobby in a legit way and a thumbs up for those who get caught give the hobby a bad name.

Don't get me wrong I like Swen and have brought from him myself but all what has happened is through his own foolishness and only has himself to blame. I hope any sentance or fine he does get is not too harsh but I also hope at the same time that it makes other would be smugglers think before they do such things.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> I don't believe that's what has happened. I believe the stock Sven sold was captive bred under his supervision, and therefore he sold his own captive bred stock. I have no proof, that's just what I believe, and that's what he has offered for sale for a number of years. You'll note in ATS that most of the Brachypelma imported into the US comes from Europe.


But the point of the CITES permit when exporting is to prove they are from a specific source. Of course, it gets muddied further down the line, but they are required and that's that basically. Brachypelma = CITES. That should practically be tatooed in an international supplier's arm. 

The other issue is that with or without CITES, it appears he was also trying to pass items in an improper manner; all wildlife has to be declared. Why skimp on this? I just don't get it. 

I've got nothing against Sven, but I can't condone such activities if proven. Nor do I really understand why this is on RFUK, a forum which Sven did not frequent (and it's not on other forums from what I can see). Makes me a tad uneasy.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

There's no way i'm handing over money to this. Sorry but he made money from the animals he sold, so he's a lot better off than me. And he would of known those laws better than most of us.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm with poxicator on this as,far as im concerned hes done nothing wring hus dome nothing but good for the hobby supppling thousands of cb spiders the sheer fact that this carrys anything other then a fine,is shocking and i just lost all respect for those who disagree and can onlu assume its jealousy from sucess although its already obvious how some one feels towards the op closing all links to his pricelist .however u look.at it this,is nothing like smuggling more like tax evasion


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> There's no way i'm handing over money to this. Sorry but he made money from the animals he sold, so he's a lot better off than me. And he would of known those laws better than most of us.


I couldn't agree more. : victory:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> I'm with poxicator on this as,far as im concerned hes done nothing wring hus dome nothing but good for the hobby supppling thousands of cb spiders the sheer fact that this carrys anything other then a fine,is shocking and i just lost all respect for those who disagree and can onlu assume its jealousy from sucess although its already obvious how some one feels towards the op closing all links to his pricelist .however u look.at it this,is nothing like smuggling more like tax evasion


:bash:

The reasons for closing and deleting Sven's pricelists was explained to you many, many times. Do I have to go through them again? 

Jealousy doesn't even come into it. Why would I be jealous? I have a dream job - I get paid to read and study arachnids. As a bonus, I get to publish work and in the process hopefully help conserve arthropod species in our ever more hostile world. 

Lastly, you losing all respect for me is about as hurtful as gently brushing my foot on the edge of a doorframe made entirely from feathers, marshmallow fluff and the most exquisite cotton pillows ever known to mankind, whilst wearing the world's best safefy boots with an inner lining composed entirely from sea otter and baby seal hair, cotton wool balls and shock absorbing micro-fleece for added comfort.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> Lastly, you losing all respect for me is about as hurtful as gently brushing my foot on the edge of a doorframe made entirely from feathers, marshmallow fluff and the most exquisite cotton pillows ever known to mankind, whilst wearing the world's best safefy boots with an inner lining composed entirely from sea otter and baby seal hair, cotton wool balls and shock absorbing micro-fleece for added comfort.


You finally losing it lol


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

vivalabam said:


> I couldn't agree more. : victory:


Hadit not been for Sven and people like him half the captive bred tarantulas wouldnt be availble today maybe he scrimpted on legislation but that kept it affordable.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> Hadit not been for Sven and people like him half the captive bred tarantulas wouldnt be availble today maybe he scrimpted on legislation but that kept it affordable.


Sure..... 

Fact is he broke a countrys laws knowing full well as an exporter they were there. Now i don't slate anyone that breaks any law (within reason) that might seem mostly silly. But the fact is you have to be ready to accept the consequenses if you get caught for it.


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> Hadit not been for Sven and people like him half the captive bred tarantulas wouldnt be availble today maybe he scrimpted on legislation but that kept it affordable.



By scrimpted on legislation I presume you mean breaking the law .


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

GRB said:


> But the point of the CITES permit when exporting is to prove they are from a specific source. Of course, it gets muddied further down the line, but they are required and that's that basically. Brachypelma = CITES. That should practically be tatooed in an international supplier's arm.
> 
> The other issue is that with or without CITES, it appears he was also trying to pass items in an improper manner; all wildlife has to be declared. Why skimp on this? I just don't get it.
> 
> I've got nothing against Sven, but I can't condone such activities if proven. *Nor do I really understand why this is on RFUK, a forum which Sven did not frequent (and it's not on other forums from what I can see). Makes me a tad uneasy.*


I've been purposefully holding my tongue with this thread because of it's sensitivity..... trying my best to be as empathatic as possible to Svens friends and family.. I have to say GRB is quite right the OP nor Sven have ever shown any interest in this forum or 'us' so I personally really don't feel obliged to fund anything or anyone for that matter.

-P


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

BP, as I have suggested the definition of smuggling is what Sven has done, however I don't recognise the act of smuggling captive bred species for sale outside of the country of origin to other countries outside the country of origin. What benefit to Mexico is it if there was CITES papers accompanying these orders?

Personally I wouldn't order tarantula from Mexico, not because I don't want to support their activities but 
1. I don't know any breeders out there
2. I wouldn't trust a shipment to arrive without some fatalities
3. The European dealers provide a perfectly good service.
What perhaps you should ask is why the US customers are not ordering from Mexico.

I don't think it is a negative thing to sell spiders for profit so I don't understand your 2nd quote.

As for your 3rd point that may be your opinion, but my opinion is built on the information at hand to me. I realise there's more information to come from this and at that time I will have a more informed basis to base my opinion on. Its nothing to do with closed ears, but that kind of comment is a characteristic of you that we all have to endure.

To answer the issues of this case I believe you'd need to know the inns and outs of not only CITES but the Lacey Act, coupled with the laws of Germany and the European Parliament. That requires a lot of reading and understanding. Its not something I intend to read, but considering we don't know all the details lets use a little scenario, afterall many people accuse the original source as smuggled whereas they have no idea whether this original source arrived with the proper documentation. Lets assume that has happened for the sake of argument. Lets assume that the next generation also had the right documentation, and lets assume the 3rd generation is what Sven has been caught with. Is CITES still required or is there a clause that refers to the original papers? If that doesnt sit comfortably how about the source of Svens breeding came from Mexico before they signed up to CITES in 1991.


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

the way i look at it if there was nothing dodgy in the first place surely you would have got the correct paperwork etc not tryed to be sneaky about it just my opinion but makes sense to me


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

GRB said:


> :bash:
> 
> The reasons for closing and deleting Sven's pricelists was explained to you many, many times. Do I have to go through them again?
> 
> ...


I herd the reasons just didn't understand the point. Im glad u have ir dream job I dont work with spiders but earn alot more then almost anyone who does so im happy to anyways,BK in the topic of svens hes done alot of gppd for thr hobby so I dont see why any keeper wouldnt support him on this granted he didn't declare somespiders,shpuld this not be first punished with a fine or warning the,person who murderd my pal got half what sven could get for this so as far as,im.concerned a little support is deserved


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Paul c 1 said:


> ...Sven have ever shown any interest in this forum


perhaps there's an explanation here 



> The reasons for closing and deleting Sven's pricelists was explained


(I don't know coz I havent read why his price list was deleted)


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> perhaps there's an explanation here
> 
> Hahah, good one. We're the bad guys!
> 
> (I don't know coz I havent read why his price list was deleted)


a) He was not here to answer any other questions

b) other shops and sellers post here directly and advertise themselves, why should other users here advertise on behalf of another seller? 

c) If other users are advertising on behalf of a seller not registered on the site, how do orders go through? What about scams?


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> perhaps there's an explanation here
> 
> 
> 
> (I don't know coz I havent read why his price list was deleted)


 
What I actually meant was that he has never been an active contributor on the forum i.e. participating in group discussion etc.

I'm not saying he had to be either ... rather the fact that people are asking for funding on an open forum that they/he have never actually participated in.... and I also feel uneasy about the request...I don't know whether that's right or wrong.

-P


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Grant, I didnt suggest you were the bad guys. I clearly stated I don't know why. Im not questioning the decision merely giving an explanation for why he might not post in here.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Grant, I didnt suggest you were the bad guys. I clearly stated I don't know why. Im not questioning the decision merely giving an explanation for why he might not post in here.


Fair enough, I was just being a bit cheeky :lol2:


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

GRB said:


> Lastly, you losing all respect for me is about as hurtful as gently brushing my foot on the edge of a doorframe made entirely from feathers, marshmallow fluff and the most exquisite cotton pillows ever known to mankind, whilst wearing the world's best safefy boots with an inner lining composed entirely from sea otter and baby seal hair, cotton wool balls and shock absorbing micro-fleece for added comfort.


That is possibly the funniest thing I have read all week. :lol2:



jaykickboxer said:


> Hadit not been for Sven and people like him half the captive bred tarantulas wouldnt be availble today maybe he scrimpted on legislation but that kept it affordable.


But I don't know him, he never made himself known to me, why should I give money? Plus he knew full well what would happen if he got caught, which he did, it was no accident sending Ts to America with no papers or permit, ok they might have set him up, but he shouldn't have put himself in that position. 

If I have got anything wrong someone can correct me, but that's what I've gathered from it so far. 

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, I don't have anything against him, I don't know the guy, I just feel if you break the law then you shouldn't complain when you get caught...


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

So, by the same token we shouldnt have Michael Scheller posting stock in here?
Or Lee from the Spider Shop?

Its an invert forum. There's no rules to my knowledge that you have to reply to every post. Its a board of communication and information. Providing a list of sales is perhaps the limit that some breeders can provide to forums.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

vivalabam said:


> I just feel if you break the law then you shouldn't complain when you get caught...


can you please point me to the post where Sven complains about getting caught, in any forum.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Mutley.100 said:


> By scrimpted on legislation I presume you mean breaking the law .


U never done,anything a little wrong then lied on expenses,on a,tax return for example do u think u should u get upto 20 years for something like this


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> can you please point me to the post where Sven complains about getting caught, in any forum.


His family are in a way coming on here begging for money... 

But I didn't mean him personally, I am terrible at wording things... But people on here saying he has done nothing wrong, he must have done something to be facing 20 years in prison...


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> U never done,anything a little wrong then lied on expenses,on a,tax return for example do u think u should u get upto 20 years for something like this


No I agree 20 years is very steep, but we're talking about different laws in different countries now. :whistling2:


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

Poxicator said:


> So, by the same token we shouldnt have Michael Scheller posting stock in here?
> Or Lee from the Spider Shop?
> 
> Its an invert forum. There's no rules to my knowledge that you have to reply to every post. Its a board of communication and information. Providing a list of sales is perhaps the limit that some breeders can provide to forums.


Pete I understand that you are obviously a personal friend of Sven, and therefore you will have in no doubt a more personal view and opinion on the situation than most if not everyone else here.

I think a lot of people, myself included find it easier to comment on the situation before all the facts and evidence have been disclosed.

Anyway i've said my piece and on that note i'm out!

-P


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> U never done,anything a little wrong then lied on expenses,on a,tax return for example do u think u should u get upto 20 years for something like this


Yes , I did a few minor stuff when I was younger but I knew the possible consequences and would've taken the punishment if caught . I'm assuming he knew he needed paperwork , which supposedly he didn't have . Whether the max sentence is harsh is neither here nor there , nor is his contribution to the hobby .


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I think the topic has been pretty much covered, and for the sake of repetition or veering offhand into personal comments etc, I will close this for now.


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