# LION FOR SALE :s



## gaz0123

I WAS ON A SITE FOR EXOTIC PETS AND THERE WERE THINGS LIKE LIONS AND LIGERS (HALF LION HALF TIGER)

SURELY THEESE ANIMALS NEED TO BE IN THE WILD OR IN A ZOO AND HE AID AS LONG AS U HAVE A LICENCE U CAN BUY IT NOT SAYING THAT YOU NEED EXPERIANCE HE NEEDS TO GIVE THIS LION A BETTER LIFE BY DONATING IT TO A ZOO NOT SELLING ON THE INTERNET ITS SICK

WHAT A PR:censor:K


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## SNAKEWISPERA

Was this a UK site,
Fancy posting us a link ?


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## freekygeeky

there a a few peopel on here who sell them..
personalyl someon who can give it a great home in a ''garden'' than in a zoo... i knwo where i woudl prefer to live,


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## gaz0123

yh it is a uk site and the link is Lion - £500.00 : TSKA Exotics!, Specialist Keepers Association


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## dax

omg!

can people actally buy these? not only that but why? why would you keep something like this!!!


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## gaz0123

ino thats why i started this thread something of this proportion needs to be made illegal to keep just one gap and it could kill anybody in its way


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## SNAKEWISPERA

Maybe you should PM nerys on here


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## Bobbie

not just any one can buy these!

your need the liscence etc, and must be inspected before hand etc..


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## gaz0123

whos that


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## retri

gaz0123 said:


> I WAS ON A SITE FOR EXOTIC PETS AND THERE WERE THINGS LIKE LIONS AND LIGERS (HALF LION HALF TIGER)
> 
> SURELY THEESE ANIMALS NEED TO BE IN THE WILD OR IN A ZOO AND HE AID AS LONG AS U HAVE A LICENCE U CAN BUY IT NOT SAYING THAT YOU NEED EXPERIANCE HE NEEDS TO GIVE THIS LION A BETTER LIFE BY DONATING IT TO A ZOO NOT SELLING ON THE INTERNET ITS SICK
> 
> WHAT A PR:censor:K


Ligers in the wild? where exactly?


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## gaz0123

yeah but you dont have to have the animal when they inspect you just have to have the right stuff i.e. right encloser space temp etc


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## Dirtydozen

OMG lions or whatever it was were only £500 each il have 2 lol 

just need a zoo now lol


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## gaz0123

i dont no but they were on the site for sale they should be returned top the wild


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## freekygeeky

thats the guy on here .
along with nerys.
pm them and get some info.. maybe they will 
make you 'understand' 
they are very beautiful creatures


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## Bobbie

Nerys and rory are tska exotics.. lol, they will tell you more


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## SNAKEWISPERA

The wife of the owner of the site....

Maybe look up Rory on here is names something like TSKA exotics...


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## gaz0123

ino there beautiful animals bt it just seems rong to keep them as a pet


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## retri

gaz0123 said:


> ino thats why i started this thread something of this proportion needs to be made illegal to keep just one gap and it could kill anybody in its way


you do realise that people have been keeping these as pets for years, you now need a licence to keep them, whats the difference between a zoo and someone who has a licence to do so?


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## Dirtydozen

Dirtydozen said:


> OMG lions or whatever it was were only £500 each il have 2 lol
> 
> just need a zoo now lol


that was jenny that wrote that, im a lion keeper so have 17 that i work with, plus 4 4 week old cubs


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## gaz0123

im not at all anoyed about the site i love some of the animals they have for sale but the lions are too much


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## James_T

What's the difference between a private individual having the right enclosure and a zoo? The sort of people these animals go to, don't live in terrace houses with a 15' garden. I'm sure these are more projects for people with lots of money, and acres of land to spare.


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## gaz0123

yh but a animal like this need lots of wide open space to roam free


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## freekygeeky

gaz0123 said:


> yh but a animal like this need lots of wide open space to roam free


and u think zoos do that... ha!


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## gaz0123

and lions are in zoo's mainly for getting there numbers back up


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## reptile_man_08

gaz0123 said:


> yh but a animal like this need lots of wide open space to roam free


Hence the 30x70M enclosure and need for a license.There's obviously much more to it then it appears.:lol2:


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## Dirtydozen

gaz0123 said:


> and lions are in zoo's mainly for getting there numbers back up


lions are in zoos coz the attract people, you would be suprised about some of the stuff that goes on in zoos trust me


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## Esarosa

TSKA are brokers, most of the animals are not their own they sell them on behalf of the owners/breeders. They have VERY strict vetting procedures to make sure the animals only go to suitable homes. They are not people who will compromise an animals wellbeing, they wouldn't sell a primate to be kept in a parrot cage, the enclosure would have to be completely suitable.

It seems a little hypocritical to me, that you're saying they should be in the wild (p.s ligers are a hybrid and aren't found in the wild) when you have an iguana which grow very large and few people can cater for them sufficiently in captivity. Maybe they should be made illegal? And whilst we're at it what about large boids, oh and then theres those dangerous royal pythons...do you see where i'm going with this. If you ban certain animals where do you draw a line? Providing the animals are well looked after, have plenty of room & their needs are met, all licensing provided, then I see no problem. I've seen zoo's who's enclosures leave alot to be desired, and i've seen private keepers who's animals are their lives and live practically in luxury.


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## Sarah-Jayne

Personally I think if you have the space, the time, the care, the knowledge etc to look after a lion then go for it


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## gaz0123

yeah but katie a iguana cant kill and eat u and the large boids are alot less dangerouse than a lion


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## feorag

I think you'll find that Rory is an expert in his field and knows very well what he's doing and what the laws are with regard to animals such as these. He doesn't own or breed these animals - he is a broker and puts people in touch with each other regarding whatever exotic they are looking for.

As someone has already said, maybe you should pm Rory and ask him what the circumstances are before you create a critical thread like this!

Edit: Katie, sorry I cross posted with you, but everything you have said I totally agree with!!


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## MissG

Katiexx said:


> TSKA are brokers, most of the animals are not their own they sell them on behalf of the owners/breeders. They have VERY strict vetting procedures to make sure the animals only go to suitable homes. They are not people who will compromise an animals wellbeing, they wouldn't sell a primate to be kept in a parrot cage, the enclosure would have to be completely suitable.
> .


I completely agree. 

Just look at this extensive questionnaire a potential buyer has to fill out to even be considered....

- General Screening Form


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## Esarosa

gaz0123 said:


> yeah but katie a iguana cant kill and eat u and the large boids are alot less dangerouse than a lion



A fully grown iguana can quite easily break your arm. A large snake if not handled correctly & with respect could technically kill you. Obviously sensible owners would take precautions, have people around for handling,water changes etc etc.

Like I said before, if people have the time, space, knowledge etc etc and the animal will be well cared for, then all power to them. At least with things like lions you need a DWAL. Alot of animals not on the license suffer from numpties buying them. Just because an animal may not be able to, quote 'eat u' doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Raccoons for example no longer require a license but can do a hell of alot of damage to people. Do you see what I was getting at earlier though, If you ban things like lions completely where do you draw a line. Dogs have killed people before, yes they've been domesticated for thousands of years but it's a slippery slope.

Seriously as suggested pm Tska Rory or Nerys. They run TSKA and will be able to explain it all to you.


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## purejurrasic

Its not as if you just paypal £500 over and get TNT arrive with your lion.

You have made the classic mistake of not reading the details.

Agree or disagree with keeping lions, you wont be able to nip round , flash the cash and take one home.


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## Titch1980

purejurrasic said:


> Its not as if you just paypal £500 over and get TNT arrive with your lion.
> 
> You have made the classic mistake of not reading the details.
> 
> Agree or disagree with keeping lions, you wont be able to nip round , flash the cash and take one home.


oh really?  thats such a shame, i want one and a panther purrrrrrrrrrleeeeeeeeez :lol2::lol2:


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## Fixx

Katiexx said:


> A fully grown iguana can quite easily break your arm.


:lol2: Funniest thing I have heard all week


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## Kylie

*walks in* reads*s******s* thinks this deserves a quirky nerys comment....*walks out*:lol2:


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## chameleonpaul

Fixx said:


> :lol2: Funniest thing I have heard all week


Lol, your week sounds fun :lol2:


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## Nerys

*grins*

thank you everyone for explaining things a little to the topic starter.

a few points for you, sir.. prepare for a long post.. those who know us.. you might want to skip the next several thousand words.. you know it all anyway..

firstly a lion would not be sold as a "pet" any more than a primate would. 

not to you, not to anyone. 

yes there are people who do sell animals like this as pets, we would not. we were one of the first and only sites to actually have an internet/web selling code of practice for exotic animal sales. Most people in authority are aware of us and what we do, and on the rare times DEFRA and their kith and kin have a query with an anima llisted, they contact us. 

For instance Article 10 animals.. MUST HAVE A10 paperwork to be legally sold. we do get queries on A10 animals from the above from time to time, but make every effort not to list or advertise animals without the correct documentation.. in all cases the A10 paperwork is held with the current owner until a sucessful sale has been acheived. we do NOT personally hold the A10's for ANY of the animals for sale on our site, unless they are from our own personal collection. we do however ask for A10 verification from the seller before we advertise the animals. 

People like Defra, customs, rspca and anti group all visit our site on a regular basis, as well as sites like this one. (hello again guys..:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: who's got the night shift this time?) if we were selling lions as pets..and doing it openly via a website like ours.. or openly selling ilegal animals, i think someone might have something to say about it. i wish they would do more about certain other issues ongoing in the exotic animal sales market at the moment. you know what i mean. _how_ long now?? and you moan at us??? Pffffffffffffft :bash::bash::bash: 

as has been stated by us and others many many times, TSKA do not OWN the animals we advertise.. unless on rare occasions we sell something from our personal collection. yes we are a broker, we manage other peoples sales.. we do NOT have a warehouse of exotic animals here.. thankfully, the feed bills for my own animals are enough!

We provide a service for people who own exotics and want to buy more or sell some, or people who do not own exotics and want to buy... we have over 600 people on the client database, both in the UK and abroad. although there are people who hate us, there are also people who like us.

we also offer advice on keeping said animals and campaign politically on issues like husbandry and welfare. if we do not personally keep, or have not personally kept a speices.. lemurs say.. or ligers (!!) then when people ask for advice we speak to our many experienced clients and feed information and advice back that way. 

for instance a good friend who rory is on the phone to now, is a exotic cat keeper. if we have a query on keeping small exotic cats.. and do not know the answer, we call XXX and ask him for his input. he himself rarely wants to speak to the person who is asking.. but is more than happy to feedback via us. 

many exotic keepers are paranoid about issues like security for instance and whilst they might want to sell, for instance, a liger.. they do not want to advertise it themselves and have every wannabewallydreamer on the net call them up and ask for pics.. in that situation we act as a buffer between the serious buyers and the wishful thinkers.. many of the animals who come onto the TSKA books are placed with people who have wanted lists with us. for instance, a client of ours is looking for a cheetah, if one becomes available it will be offered to them before it goes on general advertisement. they have already passed the vetting, and we know they are a suitable home. they are also a private home, with a large outdoor area to play with. and we are not talking a large back garden.. we're talking several acres.

by the way, a liger would not survive in the wild... at around a third again the size of the adult tigeress that produced it, the animal is too heavy to be able to hunt what it would need. it does not have the power to speed to stamina ratio that would enable it to hunt and bring down prey in the wild sucessfully. they are a man made creation, and are only seen in captivity. the liger on the site was actually one of three cubs, two of which i believe are now overseas. you would not be able to just walk up, flash a DWA and go home with him. we would not allow that, and nor, to be frank, would the animals current owner. you would be vetted extensively before we even told the owner you were interested. 

lions are, as has been said, not in zoos to "get their numbers back up" they are there as one of the classic big five, to attract visitors... there is in fact a huge surplas of animals like lions in zoos and attractions, this leads to animals being given birth control, and to surplas animals being destroyed. most zoos, at least publically, have a policy of not selling to the private market, although to be honest many animals do pass from zoos into the private sector.

annnyway... as people have said on here.. if you had a problem, why not contact us and ask what the score was?? 

again, thanks to those who cared enough to comment :notworthy:

Nerys


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## fenwoman

gaz0123 said:


> ino thats why i started this thread something of this proportion needs to be made illegal to keep just one gap and it could kill anybody in its way


 How many lions have killed people and how many big constrictors have I wonder?


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## fenwoman

gaz0123 said:


> i dont no but they were on the site for sale they should be returned top the wild


 yeah. All exotic animals and reptiles should be returned to the wild :whistling2:


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## Bobbie

WAAAYY NERYS!!

whoop whoop haha :lol2:


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## fenwoman

gaz0123 said:


> and lions are in zoo's mainly for getting there numbers back up


 is that why a lot of zoos put their li9ons on birth control? They aren't endangered.


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## fenwoman

purejurrasic said:


> Its not as if you just paypal £500 over and get TNT arrive with your lion..


 Oh knickers. I've been waiting in all day for mine to arrive too. I wonder if I should get paypal to refund my money then:lol2:


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## Meko

gaz0123 said:


> im not at all anoyed about the site i love some of the animals they have for sale *but the lions are too much*


 
they do a discounted price if you buy the group though. If they're too much maybe you should go for a guinea pig.


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## Meko

got to ask.




> 3 Males 19 Months of age [2006 UK Bred
> Diet: a mixture of pork, beef and horsemeat, occasionally chickens. They eat about ten to fifteen pounds of meat per day, five days per week.
> *Enclosure: **They climb a little, so a platform would be a nice addition. Enclosure measurements 70 metres x 50 metres.*
> 
> Lions are the largest African carnivore, and the second largest of the "Great cats" (lions, leopards, tigers, and jaguars). Great cats are distinguished from other cats by their ability to roar. Lions are also the second largest cats in the world; the tiger is the largest cat.




do they come with the 'viv' ?


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## Nerys

Meko said:


> they do a discounted price if you buy the group though. If they're too much maybe you should go for a guinea pig.



oh now that i love, just lol'd lots *grins*

:2thumb:

N


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## TSKA Rory Matier

gaz0123 said:


> I WAS ON A SITE FOR EXOTIC PETS AND THERE WERE THINGS LIKE LIONS AND LIGERS (HALF LION HALF TIGER)
> 
> SURELY THEESE ANIMALS NEED TO BE IN THE WILD OR IN A ZOO AND HE AID AS LONG AS U HAVE A LICENCE U CAN BUY IT NOT SAYING THAT YOU NEED EXPERIANCE HE NEEDS TO GIVE THIS LION A BETTER LIFE BY DONATING IT TO A ZOO NOT SELLING ON THE INTERNET ITS SICK
> 
> WHAT A PR:censor:K


Hi, 

Well seeing as it is my website that this refers to, let us see [with the absence of any pm's to this point] if l can assist you with your bold statements.

First off, whilst l know that someone has already posted the General Screener, the Exotic Cat screener is a tad more extensive : 

- Buyer Screening Form

This particular screener is actually aimed at all exotic cats from small species all the way to large, such as for the likes of the Liger and Lions. After this is in fact there is a further series of questions which are usually penned out by the keepers [sellers] and then a further series of calls and talks with the licencing council for the applicant.

Then the potential keeper [buyer] must answer all the questions directly asked of them by the keeper selling.

An inspection request of the space you intend to keep said cat/species is requested by us, where upon we take photographs and accept blueprints of the enclosure itself as well as in depth questioning about the materials to be used.

In all l think during the course of a 12 month period we are probably asked for some 18 exotic cats ranging from Servals up to Lions and of course Cheetahs by the UK market alone with a further dozen or so requests from Europe.

I have some 15 exotic cat keepers on the books in the UK at present which includes predominantly private keepers and two game parks. Of those 15, six were/are quarantine centres who brought their cats in from Europe and further afield.

The most popular cats requested are ocelots, servals, fishing cats and tigers/cheetahs.

Now this is where it may become unpleasant for you Mr OP, there are two sides to TSKA, there is TSKA Exotics which deals in the main with mainland UK and Europe dealing with captive bred animals and then there is Caribbean Wildlife, the latter deals captive bred and wild caughts. The wild caughts on the odd occasion do come into the UK under quarantine, whilst the remainder never enter EU waters but travel to non EU, such as Japan, China, Thailand etc for the likes of the big game park complexes springing up over there.

So yes, we deal in captive breds and wild caughts, no bones about it.

However to the reference that you regard it as SICK and more precisely this particular quote:

'SURELY THEESE ANIMALS NEED TO BE IN THE WILD OR IN A ZOO AND HE AID AS LONG AS U HAVE A LICENCE U CAN BUY IT NOT SAYING THAT YOU NEED EXPERIANCE HE NEEDS TO GIVE THIS LION A BETTER LIFE BY DONATING IT TO A ZOO NOT SELLING ON THE INTERNET ITS SICK'

I think in reality you really do need to thoroughly research the content of a post before committing it to paper. I am not worried by the sale of the lions or the liger on the website, but am a little concerned at your apparent naivity, that a well penned email or pm to myself would have perhaps saved you from embarassment here.

Who the hell are you to say that the keeper in charge of this animal/s is not by any way shape or form better than the zoo environment? Or the same? Who the hell are you to say that he needs to donate it to a zoo?

A better life in the wild??

Well perhaps you need to research things as previously l have made mention to.

Just a small snippet here, many animals that are CAPTIVE bred as an example are not suited for life in the wild, and l for one can agree with Nerys as she has already stated, the Liger would not survive in the wild. The Lions are captive bred UK and would not know the wild if it was slapped in their faces, albeit their enclosures currently are spacious to the extreme, and their version of wild living is quite possibly better preserved than it would be in the actual natural environment itself. 

[NB: Please note that the above paragraph is reserved only to the cats contained in this thread and captive bred as a rule]

Rory Matier
TSKA Exotics


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## gaz0123

ok well at the time i just thought it was wrong but i no if u have all the right space and experiacne it ok


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## Dirtydozen

as i said before and as nerys pointed out lions are not endangered and when bred in zoos can bring about a few problems. Lions live in prides as you should know and introducing a new lion to an establised pride is impossible, we have had this prob with a female that had to be away from the pride for a while, she is just and so starting to be excepted again but it has been very hard and upsetting at times, if it got worse and she wasnt accepted she would of most probably had to of been PTS.

Last year we had ten cubs, 7 of these being male. The females will stay with the pride no problem but the males is a diff story, either our male will kill them or they will kill him. We had a couple of options, one would be PTS which a lot of zoos do with male lions, another was find a zoo that wanted between 1-7 males, near impossible and we also considered setting up another section with the 7 males as a batchelor group but in the end we got 5 of them castrated, 2 were left to keep our options open all though i dont know what these are gonna be.

What im trying to get at is i think its good that people keep lions in private collections as although like nerys said zoos dont normally give to private collections it is always an option for surplus males that would more than likely be PTS


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## Esarosa

Fixx said:


> :lol2: Funniest thing I have heard all week


My brothers friend actually had his arm broken by a rescue iggy several years ago when he was roughly 17. So not so hilarious for him :razz:


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## Kylie

:notworthy:Nerys....Rory....i just love ya!!:lol2:


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## Skyespirit86

Like all things I think it depends on the way it is, not what it is. I think it is possible for private collectors to do a very good job of keeping such animals, possibly even better than a zoo. I've seen some unhappy big cats in zoos, pacing due to stress. This advert is not something many people of the general public will read, or respond to, and I just hope the person who posted it is fully responsible in who they choose to provide homes for the cats. I do not think that treating big cats like this as pets (I mean who said they are?), or collecting them is entirely ethical, but I don't see how it is necessarily any worse than zoos buying them- in fact zoos might buy off someone like this!


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## feorag

You obviously haven't read the whole thread have you?? If so you would understand better what the "poster of the advert" is doing.


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## Daredevil

gaz0123 said:


> I WAS ON A SITE FOR EXOTIC PETS AND THERE WERE THINGS LIKE LIONS AND LIGERS (HALF LION HALF TIGER)
> 
> SURELY THEESE ANIMALS NEED TO BE IN THE WILD OR IN A ZOO AND HE AID AS LONG AS U HAVE A LICENCE U CAN BUY IT NOT SAYING THAT YOU NEED EXPERIANCE HE NEEDS TO GIVE THIS LION A BETTER LIFE BY DONATING IT TO A ZOO NOT SELLING ON THE INTERNET ITS SICK
> 
> WHAT A PR:censor:K


So what has he done wrong then according to you?


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## SisterMoonbeam

It's not entirely ethical but neither are zoos. In a perfect world every animal would roam free and there would be no captivity or domestication but it doesn't happen like that. Personally, i disagree with private keepers but that's my opinion, but it's also the same with zoos. Both zoos and private dealers both existed before society became more sensitive towards animal welfare and now they are here whether we like it or not. If the government was to abolish both what would happen to all the current captive animals as many of them cannot be released back into the wild. The best thing they can do is strive to keep standards as high as possible but as with anything there are good zoos and bad zoos, there are good private owners and bad private owners. As long as we attempt to support high standards they should continue and hopefully reduce some of the awful conditions wild animals are kept in by *some* private owners and *some* zoos. 

The thing i have a personal objection to is WC animals being brought in to either zoos or the private market for no reason other than when the situation becomes absolutely necessary but in most cases the animals in question are CB. I don't particularly like animals being given a financial value either but i don't live in the clouds, this is unavoidable in all aspects of life.


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## Meko

so in a perfect world there'd be no domesticated pets just ferral cats and dogs? sounds as far from perfect as possible to be honest.


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## Pimperella

Meko said:


> so in a perfect world there'd be no domesticated pets just ferral cats and dogs? sounds as far from perfect as possible to be honest.


 
Wouldn't be as many fat people tho lol Packs of feral dogs picking off all us weaker ones as well lol


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## Meko

that's me screwed then.


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## Sid.lola

OMG there is a guy on another site selling a 15 foot snake surely it should be in the wild!!!!

 : victory:


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## Pimperella

Dear Dear!

What about me? I breed them killer wolfdogs! They should be in the wild shouldn't they!?

*Looks at Keano on his quilt* Yeah right lol


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## marthaMoo

Sid.lola said:


> OMG there is a guy on another site selling a 15 foot snake surely it should be in the wild!!!!
> 
> : victory:


Buy it, then we will free it, in a school or something..lol



I was going to say when I saw the first post, you have to have a licence, then you have to get past Nerys and Rory, now I dont really know them, but from what I've seen them post they both seem like very caring, knowledgable people who put there animals first and dont suffer fools likely. So even if you did have a licence you may not tick all the boxes, so you wouldnt be able to get yourself a cute Lion cub anyway.


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