# Need help sexing my baby common toad



## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I've had my baby toad since november so it was probably born around july. 

I still can't tell whether it's a male or a female. I've looked online but the diagrams comparing are always of adult ones.

My toad's about 1.5 inches long. I take it out and handle it to check if its looking fat and healthy daily and it seems to make a clicking noise but i see its nostril holes moving when it clicks. 

Alot of the time I can hear it clicking in its tank too but i think maybe that's just its breathing, other than that it doesn't make any noise.

Also i've noticed that when it hunts crickets and sneaks up on them when it freezes before it strikes its tongue, it's long middle toe on both feet shake up and down lol, is this normal?


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Hey. If you hold the toad up next to your ear and gently grasp around the back (as if you were another toad during amplexis) it should squeak. It will be quiet at such a small size. This the only real way to tell at that age...when it gets older you can tell by black nuptial pads between the "big toe" and first toe...(between your thumb and first finger area)...

As for hunting and the shaking toe. Both of mine do this and so I would say it is quite normal. Make sure you dust food with calcium twice a week and offer more than just crickets as toads will become fussy for what they eat. Mine wont bother with fruit flies anymore, but these are for the newts anyway...seem to get excited about locusts though and if you want a laugh, offer a worm...if it gets the worm it does this kind of funky dance while trying to swallow! :lol2:


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

I was wondering the same about sexing mine, there's only 4 that I can handle tho, the others are still really small n i'm scared i might squish em.

(On a side note, anyone know about sexing common frogs ? I've read that the males will have speckles/marks on their belly, whereas the females won't have. Obviously calling is the big indicator but Eyeball hasn't made any noises yet, he's only 5 months old tho so got a while yet, however im positive he's a male)

Toe-twitching is so funny to watch, I think I read somewhere they do it to mesmorize/confuse their prey, although nothing ive ever fed mine seems interested in the wiggly/tapping toes.

Do either of yours puff-up when they see you approaching ?? My biggest one always does this (It's a fatty anyway so sometimes looks hhuuggee) but none of the others do.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I just took it out and give it a lil squeeze and it didn't make any noise other than its usual pop/click. Guess i have a lil mama 

I'll have to find some worms small enough for her  she's on ant sized crickets at the moment I had her on bigger ones but she wouldnt eat them and spat one back out once cos it was too big lol her eyes were bigger than her belly 
She puffs up a bit when I lift up the rock cave which she always sits under lol.

Also she plays dead when you turn her over on her back lol its so cute


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Just get some earthworms online...and cut one in half. Mine manages and he is only 1 inch...but sometimes they ignore them. If you have soil in your setup and plants like I do you can always keep a few worms in there anyway. If mine dont eat the worm it digs into the soil and I just leave it be. It helps with keeping the soil (poo) clean. 
What are you going to name her?


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

According to a book on Frogs & Toads by Trevor Beebee, 40% of the contents of a toads stomach were ants. 15% beetles, 15% woodlice & 30% other (Worms, centipedes, spiders, millipedes, moths, butterflies, flies, caddis flies, earwigs ,bugs & springtails)

I hoovered up an ants 'nest' in the garden last year and the little buggers bit me when I lifted the flagstones so don't think they're any good (I did read on a dartfrog page somewhere that there's no uk species of ant that DF's would eat...shame  ) I had caught a few in the garden before getting bit and offered them to the toads when they were only small and they didn't like em one bit, hardly suprising really.

I bought some tanks yesterday cheap from a cash n carry so i'm gonna attempt to breed some woodlice and beetles, woodlice aren't a problem but finding black beetles is harder than I thought round here (Plenty of Devils coach horse beetles but I aint breeding those again, no use as feeders as they're evil beetles with a nasty bite..incidently, the ones round here are my fault...OOPS) but I have got hundreds of mealworm beetles...think i'll try a few of those...lol

My toads don't seem to be interested in worms, tried them a few times, but my frog loves em.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

just release them bk to the wild


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> just release them bk to the wild


Sorry to be blunt but this a stupid suggestion. It is the middle of winter in case you have not noticed...it would die. Toads go though a porcess to prepare to hibernate and it would not get this by being tossed into the garden!

Just because they are not from an exotic country like the animals you keep does not mean they are not worthy and rewarding pets!!!


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## ip3kid (May 21, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> just release them bk to the wild


Just because they're native they dont count as pets? You wouldnt toss one of your snakes into the garden would you? They might not be 'Exotic' but common toads and common frogs are awsome little characters :whip:


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

yeah i mean you should not be keeping them there wild animals and in decline and realy dont see how any one thats loves animals would want to keep a species thats in decline apart or breeding common frogs being the worst they need so much space i cant see anyone haveing that amount of room but if you like go prove me wroung post pics of your set ups


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

ip3kid said:


> Just because they're native they dont count as pets? You wouldnt toss one of your snakes into the garden would you? They might not be 'Exotic' but common toads and common frogs are awsome little characters :whip:


yeah awsome little characters to be studied where they belong


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> yeah awsome little characters to be studied where they belong


you could say that about any animal, go to the rainforest and release a tree frog back into the wild or a snake or whatever. I found mine in november INSIDE my restaurant in a box of turnips if it was outside it would have died. I took it in and i look after it, i give it everything it needs and it's happy. Once you take them into capitivity they depend on you for everything and they would just die if you release them back into the wild. Also you get attatched to these things and releasing it outside not knowing if its going to survive or not would be a horrible feeling. Everything was wild at one point and then domesticated, toads are in decline because they get run over by cars and such, whats the problem with giving it a good home in which it can live in a nice habitat without having to worry about predators or traffic. In my case it would have died if i'd just put it back outside simple as that, how can this been seen as a negativity? Please don't be so narrow minded!


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

tbh ppl that keep rare animals in captivity and breed from them are doing a great job, because if they are in decline, then surely preserving their species by providing a safe home can only be a good thing, after all we are doing it with tigers and pandas?? I feel as long as the animal is being cared for in the correct way what is the problem. I would be different if the animal is being mistreated. good luck with your toad. xx


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## ip3kid (May 21, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> yeah i mean you should not be keeping them there wild animals and in decline and realy dont see how any one thats loves animals would want to keep a species thats in decline apart or breeding common frogs being the worst they need so much space i cant see anyone haveing that amount of room but if you like go prove me wroung post pics of your set ups


Ohhh soo its different for keeping WC snakes and lizards and stuff but not a native WC? And its the same with a royal it may stop eating it may be WC but you wouldnt let it go would you?


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> tbh ppl that keep rare animals in captivity and breed from them are doing a great job, because if they are in decline, then surely preserving their species by providing a safe home can only be a good thing, after all we are doing it with tigers and pandas?? I feel as long as the animal is being cared for in the correct way what is the problem. I would be different if the animal is being mistreated. good luck with your toad. xx


Sorry but keeping some toads you found in your garden in usually lacking conditions isn't even remotely comparable to genuine conservation work.
Tigers and Pandas!?!?! LOL.

As for the Bufo, why do you need to sex them? Rather than handling animals to stress possible males out enough to release call, in the hopes that will reveal it's sex is hardly necessary is it? 

Just leave him be and enjoy keeping him whatever he is 
Lotte***


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> Sorry but keeping some toads you found in your garden in usually lacking conditions isn't even remotely comparable to genuine conservation work.
> Tigers and Pandas!?!?! LOL.
> 
> 
> ...


Firstly I wouldn't be so rude as to blatantly laugh at jenns post, its clear want she ment and you have just twisted her words into something you can call her out on.

If people do their bit to help wildlife what's the problem? Would you rather someone help out an amphibian or just let it die?

Isn't it common that one would want to know the gender of their pet? So one doesn't have to refere to it as an _*it*_. I am hoping to breed them. 2 females ain't gonna get me far luv are they? *LOL*


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

andaroo said:


> Firstly I wouldn't be so rude as to blatantly laugh at jenns post, its clear want she ment and you have just twisted her words into something you can call her out on.
> 
> If people do their bit to help wildlife what's the problem? Would you rather someone help out an amphibian or just let it die?
> 
> Isn't it common that one would want to know the gender of their pet? So one doesn't have to refere to it as an _*it*_. I am hoping to breed them. 2 females ain't gonna get me far luv are they? *LOL*


 
My main issue with sexing is compatability. Males of this species are very territorial, especially over water pools. I do hope you dont get your hopes up too high for breeding though mate cause your toad only sounds like it is a year maybe 2 years old and you could be waiting for a few years yet as they are in captivity...but always worth a try...make sure they have a water dish each if you add another. Good luck!


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

well all i can say is surely it's up to each individual on what pet they have, and as long as they look after them properly then thats good, but for people to have a go at each other is a little upsetting, after all aren't we all just after friendly advice and help? xxx


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

andaroo said:


> Firstly I wouldn't be so rude as to blatantly laugh at jenns post, its clear want she ment and you have just twisted her words into something you can call her out on.
> 
> You should apply this bit above about "twisting words" to this bit below about how I apparently think people should just let amphibians die instead of helping them. Just a tip.
> 
> ...


 
You're going to need to learn at least a little bit about _Bufo bufo_ before you try breeding them luv, good luck with it, as has been said on a number of occaisions your toad is a juvenile it likely cannot be accurately sexed as yet and you've got a year or so to do your research anyway...

On the topic of saving some native herps argueably in need VS massive conservation projects such as those for tigers and pandas.
While helping any animal that you come across is noble indeed (provided you actually have the knowledge and means to make a positive effect on it) It isn't conservation and I was merely laughing at how shockingly Jenn's comment undermines the work that goes into genuine conservation projects...

Lotte***


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I am sorry if I didn't make it clear, I DO understand how hard ppl work towards conservation of endangered species, these ppl do fantastic work. I was merely using tigers and pandas as an example.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> I am sorry if I didn't make it clear, I DO understand how hard ppl work towards conservation of endangered species, these ppl do fantastic work. I was merely using tigers and pandas as an example.


Fair dos!!! 
:2thumb:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes there is a big difference between the two. 
Please don't assume I haven't done any research as I am not an idiot and know things must be researched into before you can make an attempt at caring for it. Otherwise my tank would consist of soil from the garden and a plastic bowl of tap water.

I didn't twist your words I was asking you a question, you are now twisting my words into making it look like i twisted yours! lol anyway enough, jen is right, no fights just help and advice!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

ilovetoads2 said:


> My main issue with sexing is compatability. Males of this species are very territorial, especially over water pools. I do hope you dont get your hopes up too high for breeding though mate cause your toad only sounds like it is a year maybe 2 years old and you could be waiting for a few years yet as they are in captivity...but always worth a try...make sure they have a water dish each if you add another. Good luck!


You really think its 1-2 years old? I assumed with it being so small that it was just a few months. Here she is next to a 2p coin just to clarify.









What's the verdict?


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

oh bless she is tiny, I don't really know how big toads get? but the ones I have seen in my garden a bit bigger than this that's for sure.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, I would say that she was born last year. Toads are really tiny tadpoles and are the size of a thumbnail when they absorb their tails...thereabouts. I have one just a little bigger than yours and he has not grown much since June. He is hibernating now though so that may have changed sice early December....Still, last year at the earliest...I think it is too big to have been born this year...though it will depend highly on the toad and how much it managed to eat at what stage ect....but I could always be wrong...it does happen from time to time...:lol2:

Cute little guy in any case.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

We have overwintered 2007 _Bufo bufo_ that are identical  so less than a year


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

My first 'walker' emerged 20th June 2008.













My biggest toad measuring 37mm & weiging in at 6.8g (taken today)










She's puffed-up more than usual (Plus she's a bit podgy anyway) as I try not to handle em too much but was re-doing their tank so took the opportunity to get some pics.

(Sorry the pics are rubbish...waiting for the prices to drop then gonna get me a good one...been saying that for a yr tho !!)


Out of interest Lotte, have you got any full-tank pix or anymore close-ups like u showed me of the bufo's, and a rana set-up wouldn't go unappreciated either 
I've found it hard to find reliable information about keeping common toads/frogs, pics are what I gain the most from I think, bought Trevor beebee's book but it didn't go into much detail on housing etc


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

So how fast do they grow after that...just trying to age mine...although I have had him since June and he was that size then so he must have been born 07....still is not much bigger than the ones you have now though (well from November/December)


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

Personally I haven't a clue how much they grow. (But I read they may never stop growing?) Also pollywog says size: Males: 5-8cm, females: 9-12cm which leads me to believe the one above is a female, hense is growing quicker than the rest and is also plumper.
The pic is of my biggest toad, 3 others are about an inch and the other 4 are about 2/3 - 3/4 inch


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Saedcantas said:


> We have overwintered 2007 _Bufo bufo_ that are identical  so less than a year


I mean't 2008 there, doh!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

So would you say mine was born in summer 2008 then? So she'll be about 5-6 months old. 

I have some other questions.

Do you have to hibernate them every winter? What happens if you don't and they are always kept at around 20 degrees?

Is it bad to handle them alot/ do they ever get used to you holding them and become tame?

Are white LEDs ok for lighting up the cage or are they too harsh for the eyes?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

some pics of my lil turnz!




























:flrt::flrt::flrt:


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

andaroo said:


> some pics of my lil turnz!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Super cute!!! 

They will have finished metamorphosis and left the water in June, they will have been laid as spawn anywhere from Mid January to March depending upon the usual conditions where you live 

Hibernation is pretty important in the longrun for the overall health of temperate naturally hibernating species.
Seasonality should always be your aim to make your animals as happy as possible  

Obesity, hormonal problems and definitely infertility could all the results of not hibernating this species. 

Amphibians never become "tame", they are only tolerating being handled at best, it certainly is of no benefit to them and too much will only cause stress.

White LED's should be fine, our's are lit by 5% ZooMed Reptisun UV tubes.
Lotte***


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for the comments 



Saedcantas said:


> Obesity, hormonal problems and definitely infertility could all the results of not hibernating this species.


I heard something about it shortening their lifespan too.

Some more hibernation questions...

What do I need to do to prepare it for hibernation?

How long should I let it hibernate for?

Would putting its tank in a fridge make it hibernate?

Could I do this now or should I wait until next winter?

Is there a chance it could die during hibernation?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I just arranged some plastic leaves for decoration in the tank, is it possible it could be toxic, i did buy it from a dollar store...

I like how it looks though, I don't have the proper lighting for real plants and they'd probably just die anyway.

Here's some pics of the revamped tank, I made a hill and put the rock cave on it. I like how it looks alot better now, it was really plain and boring before.



























I turn my back and she climbed up onto her rock cave and sat right on top amongst the leaves! (here's hoping they aren't toxic!) 







:flrt::flrt::flrt:


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Nope, plastic plants should be just fine, dollar store or reptile store, they're prettymuch the same 

Back on the topic of hibernation tho;



> What do I need to do to prepare it for hibernation?
> 
> How long should I let it hibernate for?
> 
> ...


Preparing for hibernation is very similar to what you would do with tortoises for example.
You would first ensure you were happy with the overall weight and health of each individual animal (everyone should be looking tip top or it isn't happening!).

You would gradually reduce the temperatures and food offered over say a month or 6 weeks beforehand. Eventually feeding nothing for a week or so before getting to the base temp of 5C.

A fridge would be a great way to achieve the minimum temps reliably.
How long really depends on where you live and what they would normally do there. They're inactive here for a fairly short time, just December to as early as mid January! 

You wouldn't do it now with your small guys, but it might be something to research for next year 
They shouldn't die in hibernation in a controlled environment and with you checking on them. They might in the wild, but the idea is you will be preventing temps dropping too low, ensuring no one dehydrates, making sure everyone is maintaining their weight ok (visually) and as soon as you see someone getting skinny you wake them up 

Lotte***


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