# Avicularia id please!!!



## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

I bought this beautiful Avic around 2 years ago as a 2 inch juvey!!!!It was sold to me as a Avicularia SP Guyana but i am not convinced it is!!!!I no the Avicularia genus is messed up but im thinking its a Avicularia Metallica!!!She molted a couple of months back and is huge,...shes just short of a 6 inch legspan!!!!Any ideas of the sp????


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*Avicularia id????*

Heres another picture of her!!!!!!!











Cheers Guys!!!!!!!:2thumb:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Looks a little like the ones that were getting sold as purple sp recently


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## Nick Masson (Nov 8, 2010)

Thats one fluffy looking T!


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## xjak3yx (Nov 8, 2010)

its a tough one!
i can see what you mean when you say it looks like a metallica. lots of species of avicularia have similar colourations in the same places...wouldnt say it was a purple... dont look purple enough !


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

*Avicularia Sp. Guyana*










Title says it all....


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*aVIC ID*



mcluskyisms said:


> image
> 
> Title says it all....


Dont look a thing like it mate!!!!!Plus mine has specs of white on the tips of every bristle,...definly not a guyana fact!!!!!


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

You cant visually ID _Avicularia_ apart from very few species. Fact.


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

OGRE1987 said:


> Dont look a thing like it mate!!!!!Plus mine has specs of white on the tips of every bristle,...definly not a guyana fact!!!!!


I can't see your pic because photobucket is a website thats been blocked by my work, not that it'd be any use to identify it anyway. You need to bear in mind that there will be several different species of Avicularia from Guyana and that Avicularia sp. Guyana simply means it's an Avicularia collected in Guyana. It doesn't mean that every spider imported as that belongs to the same species and there is a lot of variation within the Avics labelled as such in the hobby. Taxonomy would be really easy if you could just say "this spider has white tipped setae so it must be such and such a spider". There are many Avics from many countries that have that white bristled look. The most important point is that you will never know what you have and no one can tell you. The safest thing to do is to keep it labelled as you bought it and because you can't be sure of what it is to avoid using it for breeding in the future.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!!!!!!!*



mcluskyisms said:


> You cant visually ID _Avicularia_ apart from very few species. Fact.


All avics can be id,...they all differ slightly from eachother,..be it they look the same to the untrained eye!!!!Otherwise they would be all stated under the same name,..which there not,..Fact!!!!I wanted a opinion not a arguement because i can see where this is going,...so bug-off!!!!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Brandan Smith (Nov 17, 2010)

ogre many avicularia sp. look the same without proper examination its very hard / near enough impossible to pin point which sp. it is. i agree with mclusky


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

OGRE1987 said:


> All avics can be id,...they all differ slightly from eachother,..be it they look the same to the untrained eye!!!!Otherwise they would be all stated under the same name,..which there not,..Fact!!!!I wanted a opinion not a arguement because i can see where this is going,...so bug-off!!!!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I'm certainly not arguing with you at all, just stating my opinion. Which is that there are so many different species of _Avicularia_ that are located and collected in the same areas and also the fact so many that look the same means you simply cant assume that one species may be another due to visual ID. That is all.

I will say no more on the matter though as it seems your underlying wish to label your _Avicularia Sp. Guyana - Avicularia metallica_ seems greater than the facts of the situation...


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!!*



Craig Mackay said:


> I can't see your pic because photobucket is a website thats been blocked by my work, not that it'd be any use to identify it anyway. You need to bear in mind that there will be several different species of Avicularia from Guyana and that Avicularia sp. Guyana simply means it's an Avicularia collected in Guyana. It doesn't mean that every spider imported as that belongs to the same species and there is a lot of variation within the Avics labelled as such in the hobby. Taxonomy would be really easy if you could just say "this spider has white tipped setae so it must be such and such a spider". There are many Avics from many countries that have that white bristled look. The most important point is that you will never know what you have and no one can tell you. The safest thing to do is to keep it labelled as you bought it and because you can't be sure of what it is to avoid using it for breeding in the future.


I say its a Metallica because it has whitetipped bristles on the end of every bristle!!!!Plus shes huge 6 inchs which is another pointer towards a Metallica because they get around the 6 to 7 inch mark!!!!!Where the guyana sp tend to be around the 4 to 5 inch mark!!!!Plus theres no point going by what your petshop labels it up as because they assume everything is the same!!!They look at a pink-toe and say avic avic where in most cases its something else!!!!It would of bin different if i had bought it from a well known T dealer who had a better understanding and could tell the slight differences in avicularia species,...because there are slight differences!!!!!I duno just wanted to find out because ive had a number of people who say its not and im just banging my head against the wall trying to id her for breedind purposes!!!!Like you say i dont wana start cross breeding species!!!!


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Its hard enough trying to ID an _Avicularia _in person and nigh on impossible to ID one from photo's. There are so many similar looking species that even the taxonomists have trouble with them.

Its a very pretty spider that I would be happy to keep on my pet only shelf  She looks similar to _Avicularia sp. "Kwitara"_ in some respects.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!!*



Elaine R said:


> Its hard enough trying to ID an _Avicularia _in person and nigh on impossible to ID one from photo's. There are so many similar looking species that even the taxonomists have trouble with them.
> 
> Its a very pretty spider that I would be happy to keep on my pet only shelf


iTS JUST FRUSTRATING!!!I WANT TO BREED HER BUT LIKE YOU SAY ITS BAD SCIENCE TRYING TO ID FROM PHOTOS DUE TO A NUMBER OF FACTORS!!!SHOULD,NT OF POSTED A PIC UP NEWAYS,...MY WRONG DOING!!!!I NEED SOMEONE WHO SPECIALISES IN THIS SPECIES SO I CAN SEND HERE AWAY AND GET A POSITIVE ID IF POSSIBLE:banghead::banghead::banghead:!!!


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

OGRE1987 said:


> All avics can be id,...they all differ slightly from eachother,..be it they look the same to the untrained eye!!!!Otherwise they would be all stated under the same name,..which there not,..Fact!!!!I wanted a opinion not a arguement because i can see where this is going,...so bug-off!!!!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


That is a very naive train of thought. Here's a wee example involving your spider to show some of the reasons why the genus is so problematic:

Your spider was bought as a 2 inch juvie which most likely means it was captive bred in the UK. Chances are one if not both of the parents were wild caught. Many different species of Avic are imported under the same name especially in the case of the Guyanan types. Lets just assume for simplicity that both the parents of your spider were wild caught. Chances are they will have come in on different imports, both of which came from Guyana. There is a good chance that the collection point of both these imports was different, perhaps several hundred miles apart. It's quite likely that both these spiders, whilst superficially similar, could be different species altogether. The owner of the mother of your spider decides he wants to breed his female. He puts an ad out for a MM Avicularia sp. Guyana. He gets a male sent out to him that almost certainly hasn't come from the same import as his female making it possible that they came from different locations and could well be different species. The spiders are bred and the resulting offspring sold as Avicularia sp. Guyana. These are subsequently bought, grown on and bred with other Avicularia sp. Guyana and sold as such and so on and so on. This ends up creating hybrids of hybrids. When you don't know if hobby material is the same as what exists in the wild how are even the most knowlegable Avicularia buffs out there meant to arrive at an ID?




mcluskyisms said:


> I will say no more on the matter though as it seems your underlying wish to label your _Avicularia Sp. Guyana - Avicularia metallica_ seems greater than the facts of the situation...


So true!


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Dont let it frustrate you too much. I've been keeping mainly Avics for a number of years now and still have a fair few unidentified ones that I cant breed from. I've even got 3 different species that all came in under the one name lol.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!!*

Its just messed up the whole Avicularia genus!!!!!Apart from the ones that are easier to id!!!!


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

OGRE1987 said:


> Its just messed up the whole Avicularia genus!!!!!Apart from the ones that are easier to id!!!!


I agree.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!!*



mcluskyisms said:


> I agree.


Make that two of us,...so how do you no that yours is a guyana then:lol2:,...here we go again!!!!!!:lol2:


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

OGRE1987 said:


> Make that two of us,...so how do you no that yours is a guyana then:lol2:,...here we go again!!!!!!:lol2:


I dont, that's what it was sold to me as so that's the name I keep her under. I actually bought a pair of them from the same WC import, they cohabited for a week or so but she moulted out and sadly the male has died since. So she's just being kept as a pet from now on, but I dont mind as she's a nice tarantula.

: victory:


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

OGRE1987 said:


> Make that two of us


Make it three :2thumb:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Craig Mackay said:


> Make it three :2thumb:


four now.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

OGRE1987 said:


> I say its a Metallica because it has whitetipped bristles on the end of every bristle!!!!Plus shes huge 6 inchs which is another pointer towards a Metallica because they get around the 6 to 7 inch mark!!!!!Where the guyana sp tend to be around the 4 to 5 inch mark!!!!Plus theres no point going by what your petshop labels it up as because they assume everything is the same!!!They look at a pink-toe and say avic avic where in most cases its something else!!!!It would of bin different if i had bought it from a well known T dealer who had a better understanding and could tell the slight differences in avicularia species,...because there are slight differences!!!!!I duno just wanted to find out because ive had a number of people who say its not and im just banging my head against the wall trying to id her for breedind purposes!!!!Like you say i dont wana start cross breeding species!!!!


peru purple also has white-tipped bristles. so does amazonica. so you can't ID it by the white bristles.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> peru purple also has white-tipped bristles. so does amazonica. so you can't ID it by the white bristles.


I no whot your saying,..i cant go by the white tipped bristles!!!!Them species of avic you state are the easier avics to id,..i say easier :lol2:!!!!I think some one needs to study the extent of the cross breeding of the avic genus to date in the hobby!!!!But where do you start when the problem is already at the extent where people dont even no what species they have,..and more than likely hybrids as i found out earlier!!!!!I duno,...Head-ache material.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

OGRE1987 said:


> iTS JUST FRUSTRATING!!!I WANT TO BREED HER !!


so just have a go and try and breed it.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*!!!*



baldpoodle said:


> so just have a go and try and breed it.


 
bp havent seen you on here for a long time!!!!! I no your a man with a wide knowledge on tarantulas,...but if you had to put your finger on the sp of my female whot would you say!!!!!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

OGRE1987 said:


> bp havent seen you on here for a long time!!!!! I no your a man with a wide knowledge on tarantulas,...but if you had to put your finger on the sp of my female whot would you say!!!!!


Sigh.

The point is, nobody who knows will say a definite species since it's pointless. 

If you just want someone to pick a random species then say so, it'll be worth about as much.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

OGRE1987 said:


> bp havent seen you on here for a long time!!!!! I no your a man with a wide knowledge on tarantulas,...but if you had to put your finger on the sp of my female whot would you say!!!!!


I would treat it as just a sp. and thats about it, and because 90% of all avics haven't been or can't be identified even to things like sp. timbucktwo 3 etc, without alot of hard work research and a good understanding of taxomony I see no problem at all with breeding it with something that just looks similar or even not quite so similar. Just label any offspring as such.
If you want "pure" then then buy more than one from a wc source that was collected from the same area and breed that way then you may have a chance. Or you can wait for a revision of the genus and then compare your specimens to the keys but you may be waiting a long time for this.


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## Nick Masson (Nov 8, 2010)

Baldpoodle said:


> I would treat it as just a sp. and thats about it, and because 90% of all avics haven't been or can't be identified even to things like sp. timbucktwo 3 etc, without alot of hard work research and a good understanding of taxomony I see no problem at all with breeding it with something that just looks similar or even not quite so similar. Just label any offspring as such.
> If you want "pure" then then buy more than one from a wc source that was collected from the same area and breed that way then you may have a chance. Or you can wait for a revision of the genus and then compare your specimens to the keys but you may be waiting a long time for this.



Well said :no1:


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