# Tin Hat On?



## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Aye. Probably. :notworthy:

Look, I know there is an arguement for the constant use of Latin names for inverts, and I know it makes some people sound more in the know, but this should all be about EVERYONE learning, and for that one reason, I feel it is reasonable to refer to the common names, a bit more.

I appreciate that I am likely to be shot down here (any support welcome, thanks, we can be like Hamas, lol). 

Let's face it, most of us were not taught Latin at school.

Therefore, it is an alien tongue to us, and a defunct language as well.

Why not use terms that reflect some modernity?

*runs*


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

*sigh* dont want to oppose your idea, really, but latin names are more accurate. each and every species has a latin name and only one whereas a single species can have tonnes of common names and can be confusing. it would be easier if pet shops stopped making new names up all the time! a grammostola rosea can be called; a chile rose, a red chile rose, a giant chile rose etc. etc. and all of them are just to make it sound better.
tbh its better that people arent fluent in latin or the latin names would also be twisted to make them sound better.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

It's 'scientific names' to be acurate, lol


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

gizzard said:


> *sigh* dont want to oppose your idea, really, but latin names are more accurate. each and every species has a latin name and only one whereas a single species can have tonnes of common names and can be confusing. it would be easier if pet shops stopped making new names up all the time! a grammostola rosea can be called; a chile rose, a red chile rose, a giant chile rose etc. etc. and all of them are just to make it sound better.
> tbh its better that people arent fluent in latin or the latin names would also be twisted to make them sound better.


 
Oppose away - 

I appreciate what you are saying.

I accepted this in the OP.

The future of any hobby relies on a new generation of fans to carry it on.

This is true of this hobby or football, when you think about it.

AFAIK, Latin is not even taught in most schools, therefore, if there is a need to be more specific with species, use new terms that reflect every day language, imo.

If nothing else, the next generation (kids), would relate better to modern terms.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Incubuss said:


> It's 'scientific names' to be acurate, lol


Many of which are in Latin, right?

Or wrong?


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

all of it is latin... once more the english common names mixing it up... is it a latin name or a scientific name? 
heheheheheeeehe


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

gizzard said:


> all of it is latin... once more the english common names mixing it up... is it a latin name or a scientific name?
> heheheheheeeehe


Wasn't Lating originally the language of the equivalent of the gentry, and from it spawned modern day Italian?


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

On a personal note I try to use both common and scientific names eg Trinidad Chevron(Psalmopoeus cambrigei) as I can't remember at least a third of the scientific names of my own T's let alone the other species which there are literally thousands .


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Mutley.100 said:


> On a personal note I try to use both common and scientific names eg Trinidad Chevron(Psalmopoeus cambrigei) as I can't remember at least a third of the scientific names of my own T's let alone the other species which there are literally thousands .


 
I* totally* agree.:no1:

Here's the thing.

There are thousands.

When someone makes a list using scientific names, on for sale section, if it is ALL in scientific terms, I am not a likely to read it, as I would were it a mix of the two.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Ive said it before and i cant be bothered to type it again:



Lucifus said:


> *Latin/Scientific names.*
> 
> Latin names are separated into genus and species. The first name i.e. Brachypelma is the Genus and several tarantulas can belong to this genus. The last name is the Species and is used to identify that individual tarantula. Sometimes the person who discovered the species or spider is used in the name. I.e. Brachypelma Smithii.
> 
> ...


Latin may be dead but its still used in god knows how many areas and its easy to understand and translate.


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## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

Using the scientific names is a pain I agree but does prevent a lot of confusion. I don't want to sound like I'm being clever but it depends on who I'm talking to as to which name I use. On here I usually use both but on some forums you get ticked of for using common names.
The problem is that with common names a species is often given more than one and if you are paying good money you want to be sure of what you are buying. I keep sticks and as an example Peruphasma Schultei are also known as black beauties, black velvets and peruvian blacks.


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

To use the scientific/latin names you don't need to know latin. 

Its much the same as using foreign phrases in every day conversation like c'est la vie or whatever.

With regards to classifieds, I'm more inclined to look if all the scientific names are given and turn away if they are not. If I don't recognise the name then I GOOGLE it. Searching for a scientific name will give far more accurate results than a common name. Given how many people use the internet, a staggering amount of them seem incapable of using google for themselves.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

another thing is that scientific names can be used all over the shot, in other countries aswel.
If you went to China for example and was Grammostola Rosea or Chile rose, what do you think they would understand?

I only started really using scientific names a year ago, and I'm not to bad with them, you pick it up as you go along. There is quite a good list on Virginia Cheesmans site that helps  And another thing I do is google images! If you don't know, look it up, you'll pick it up dead fast


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## reef (Jan 4, 2008)

Carl Linnaeus(1707-1778) founded the modern day Bi-nominal naming system (scientific naming ) The roots of this system can be found in Latin and Greek NOT just Latin. Todays system incorporates English and also the names of people relevant to that animal (discoverer/ researcher).
The point of the bi-nominal system is to avoid confusion between Scientists / Animal keepers and Botanists ,when discussing a subject, known in different countries by a different common name .


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Scientific wins everytime over common for accuracy,,,but,,,,


Chromataplema cyanopunkj\bhxjkc\kxhcj,,,,,,Gimme GBB everytime,,,:lol2:

Pokie regalis is much easier than indian ornamental black n white,,,whatever that is

There is a place in everyday life for both id's


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

It's not Latin, it's a mixture of Latin, English and a couple of other languages so is therefore scientific.

I always use the scientific names, it's what i made myself familiar with when i got into the hobby. Common names are easy to type, easy to say and easy to remember but they mess so many things up. How many Brachypelma sp. are 'red knee', 'red leg', Nhandu colloratovilosus, Nhandu chromatus, Acanthoscurria geniculata - all common names are 'something or other White Knee' which then causes confusion when someone goes to sell something under the common name... Stick to scientific i say 

It's not hard to learn, google has most of the common names against the scientific, or just ask! My first spider i bought in a petshop as a "stripe knee", which on google is an Aphonopelma seemani... the spider was infact a Grammostola aureostriata... also named a stripe knee! It's silly


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

Becky said:


> It's not Latin, it's a mixture of Latin, English and a couple of other languages so is therefore scientific.
> 
> I always use the scientific names, it's what i made myself familiar with when i got into the hobby. Common names are easy to type, easy to say and easy to remember but they mess so many things up. How many Brachypelma sp. are 'red knee', 'red leg', Nhandu colloratovilosus, Nhandu chromatus, Acanthoscurria geniculata - all common names are 'something or other White Knee' which then causes confusion when someone goes to sell something under the common name... Stick to scientific i say


agreed


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Jade01 said:


> another thing is that scientific names can be used all over the shot, in other countries aswel.
> *If you went to China* for example and was Grammostola Rosea or Chile rose, *what do you think they would understand*?


Probably_ neither_, but I do take your point, absolutely, and I am not disputing that there are some benefits, as cited in the OP.

But there are two points _I _would like to make.

I think most people get into this hobby quite young. And that is good. If you were a youngster starting out, then a list of scientific names for Praying Mantids for example, is only likely to confuse them. 

I would always refer to an Orchid Mantid as just that - an Orchid Mantis, since _everyone_ here would know straight off what I was talking about, while if I used the scientific name, then those that don't keep Mantids would not perhaps know that I was even speaking about a Mantid, let alone an Orchid. Using Orchid Mantid permits for ease of discussion. 

And, as I say, if someone put a list of (whatever) on classifieds,_ a really long list_, and it was purely scientific names only, some of which I did not recognise, I would be less inclined to sit using Google just to decipher each name. I would be more inclined to read it if it were a mix of both. I even have a small (and rather serious) book on spiders, and it usually lists the common name first, then the scientific name. Which is the best way to go, imo.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Toeboe said:


> Scientific wins everytime over common for accuracy,,,but,,,,
> 
> 
> Chromataplema cyanopunkj\bhxjkc\kxhcj,,,,,,Gimme GBB everytime,,,:lol2:
> ...


 
True.

I mean, how many people do you know that could even _pronounce _this, with ease, unless they were already quite well versed?


_Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens_


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

I think we should cherry pick the best of either scientific and common. That way we dont stumble on tricky latin wording and sound like a t:censor:t.:lol2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Toeboe said:


> That way we dont stumble on tricky latin wording and sound like a t:censor:t.:lol2:


 
:2thumb: I know. Esp when speaking to someone who is at ease with the pronouniation.


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> True.
> 
> I mean, how many people do you know that could even _pronounce _this, with ease, unless they were already quite well versed?
> 
> ...



I can pronounce it , if it's written down in front of me . It's one of the ones I keep forgetting of mine .


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## summershow (Jun 12, 2008)

@ enlightenment

if you met a new person that wasn't from this country and had a foreign name, you would out of courtesy i assume try your best to learn their name, maybe even have a crack at pronouncing it. im going out on a limb here but i strongly assume you wouldnt say "oh i couldnt possibly pronounce or hope to learn that, i will call you small red haired lady" or "how about i call you jane instead?". i know people and invertebrates are different, but the level of ignorance is the same.

even something like "h.mem" for _Heirodula membranacea_ or "gongy" for _Gongylus gongylodes_ is in my opinion better and more useful than Giant Asian Mantis or Indian Rose Mantis. these creatures have names, learn them. to spend so much time, effort and money researching their needs, giving them the conditions they require and caring for them, only to not bother learning their names seems... well, slightly absurd to be honest.

i don't expect every beginner to be fluently and correctly pronouncing the full binomial scientific name every single time but at least make the effort!


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## Hoz (Oct 2, 2008)

Personally I think scientific names are better to use, for the same reasons others have posted.
I don't think it's much more difficult to learn them either, I didn't find it was at least, because whether your learning them in English or Latin or scientifically your still learning something new that's going to take a while to get the hang of. So why not learn in a way that others will also understand better without it leading to confusion? Most people abbreviate the first part of the name to a single letter anyway, and will still understand what you mean if you do this too.
Just my opinion


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

:lol2: Lol, everyone has a firm grasp of Latin prounication all of a sudden.

Like I say, it''s no biggie, I have stated my reasons why I think both should be used, so I'll get me coat!


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

TBH I don't think the fact that Latin is not taught in schools is an issue, the way scientific names are pronounced is not how they would be said in Latin. 
It's just a case of learning them, and as for latin names putting off new hobbyists, my younger brother who is 13 is quite happy using lots of scientific names.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

What about a person who obviously wants to sell their stock?

You agree that it is in their interests to use both, right?


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

There is not really any problem with using both, however it should be emphasised that the scientific name is the only truly correct one, such as by putting the common name in inverted commas.

Using only the common name really shouldn't be done. It is too ambiguous.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

iiisecondcreep said:


> There is not really any problem with using both, however it should be emphasised that the scientific name is the only truly correct one, such as by putting the common name in inverted commas.
> 
> Using only the common name really shouldn't be done. It is too ambiguous.


 
I agree.


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

I agree too,,,well apart from the adorable GBB,,,:lol2:


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

i have to agree with enlightenment, i unfortunatly have no other friends who share my passion of t's so when i show them my collection its much easier to use common names.its much easier to remember n relate to the t's usin there common names, especial from an enquisitive newbies point of view.after saying that if i list somthing for sale i use both n i think usin both scientific n common is best imo.


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

Yeah I'd agree with that, always use common names when talking to non spidey people. I don't have any spidey rl friends but I always use scientific names when talking to online spidey people.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

enlightenment said:


> When someone makes a list using scientific names, on for sale section, if it is ALL in scientific terms, I am not a likely to read it, as I would were it a mix of the two.


I am the oposite. If there was a huge list at dirt cheap prices, but all with common names, I wouldn't even consider buying from them. if a T is listed as a 'birdeater', what is it. Is a goliath, a pink foot, a white stripe, a salmon pink, or god knows how many others that have the name 'birdeater' in it? You could end up buying a 'birdeater', expeting it to be a T. blondi for £100, and when it comes, its a whiteknee.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

TBH, I don't really know a lot of the common names for some of my inverts. Just to name a few, what is the common names for B. keyselingi, B ibericus, B arenicola, B. occitanus? I have no idea tbh, and if some did know common names for them and used them, I would have no idea what they are talking about.


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

the thing for me is, using common names is bad for new people wanting to get into the hobby, if you google common names you can occasionally come accross pictures of the wrong species, granted it only happens with the less common T's but still atleast with latin names they can google and get the correct info, Unless its a new species in which case I always seem to end up with plant life LMAO


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Incubuss said:


> I am the oposite. If there was a huge list at dirt cheap prices, but all with common names, I wouldn't even consider buying from them. if a T is listed as a 'birdeater', what is it. Is a goliath, a pink foot, a white stripe, a salmon pink, or god knows how many others that have the name 'birdeater' in it? You could end up buying a 'birdeater', expeting it to be a T. blondi for £100, and when it comes, its a whiteknee.


Most reputable online invert shops list both common and scientific name. And are happy to answer further questions, I find.

Also, I did not say anything about a cheap price.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

lycanlord20 said:


> the thing for me is, using common names is bad for new people wanting to get into the hobby, *if you google common names you can occasionally come accross pictures of the wrong species, granted it only happens with the less common T's *but still atleast with latin names they can google and get the correct info, Unless its a new species in which case I always seem to end up with plant life LMAO


Just google 'Orange baboon tarantula' - a VERY well known T. Give it a go, and look at page 2 and three on images. there are avics, a GBB a 'king baboon'. On page 4 there is even a brachy!


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

lol exactly Im glad youv noticed this stuff aswell lol
I only google common names when thats all thats given and Iv never heard of them so its usually the less common species, I cant beleive it happens with "OBT's" lol
But yeah thats why latin names are the best lol


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## roll up boy (Jan 18, 2009)

i find the lating names extremely hard to learn, spell and remember:blush:

i personally find common names easier

it takes me ages sometimes to google the names:blush: :lol2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

roll up boy said:


> i find the lating names extremely hard to learn, spell and remember:blush:
> 
> i personally find common names easier
> 
> it takes me ages sometimes to google the names:blush: :lol2:


There we go.

Living proof of my point.


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## summershow (Jun 12, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> There we go.
> 
> Living proof of my point.


yes, after a couple of pages worth of proof against it :whistling2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Ah, but there was no reason for proof 'against' it, since I had twice accepted the benefits.

I was also citing the benefits of using common names, alongside.

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

To make a quote from Blackadder ' You twist and turn like......... a twisty turny thing'


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Not at all.

I have acknowledge the merits of using both.

Move along now.

Nothing to see here.



:lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

People will always have inverts, so I dont feel any special obligation to be welcoming towards people who don't want to learn the correct lingo. Its a couplet of words, and its very easy if you slowly build up. 

If people can learn all the lingo associated with sports and other hobbies, then its not too much to ask them to learn the correct (and current) name for their animals. It's a couplet of words...


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

GRB said:


> People will always have inverts, so I dont feel any special obligation to be welcoming towards people who don't want to learn the correct lingo.


Aye.

But you are moody, that's why - :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

wouldnt say its a case of not wanting to learn scientific names its just what comes easiest to me.tho i do agree its a deffo advantage to learn the 'correct' way and maybe if i didnt suffer from dyslexia i might spend more time learning them.tho just like any other species of animal, knowing how to keep ur t or whatever properly is more important than 'a couple of words', and lifes deffo too short to judge someone on weather they call a _Chromatopelma cyanopubescens a gbb._


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## Slinkies mum (Jul 15, 2008)

GRB said:


> People will always have inverts, so I dont feel any special obligation to be welcoming towards people who don't want to learn the correct lingo. Its a couplet of words, and its very easy if you slowly build up.
> 
> If people can learn all the lingo associated with sports and other hobbies, then its not too much to ask them to learn the correct (and current) name for their animals. It's a couplet of words...


I notice you say current name GRB I must say that is a bit of a niggle for me when they change the scientific name ie Phoeabaticus Maximus suddenly becomes P Magnus and learners like me think it's a different species. But I do think apart from the odd glitch scientific is best.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Slinkies mum said:


> I notice you say current name GRB I must say that is a bit of a niggle for me *when they change the scientific name ie Phoeabaticus Maximus suddenly becomes P Magnus* and learners like me think it's a different species. But I do think apart from the odd glitch scientific is best.


_Why_ do they do that?

Surely that must be confusing?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

kingbaboon said:


> wouldnt say its a case of not wanting to learn scientific names its just what comes easiest to me.tho i do agree its a deffo advantage to learn the 'correct' way and maybe if i didnt suffer from dyslexia i might spend more time learning them.tho just like any other species of animal,* knowing how to keep ur t or whatever properly is more important than 'a couple of words', and lifes deffo too short to judge someone on weather they call a Chromatopelma cyanopubescens a gbb.*


Well said, KB.

:no1:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Quoted the wrong thing! I agree with Incubuss in that i don't tend to take more than a glance at lists of spiders for sale if they're in common names.

Agreed. I don't buy things labelled with common names! Simply coz half the time i dont know what they are or don't trust the I.D. I MUCH prefer to see an advert written properly



Incubuss said:


> Just google 'Orange baboon tarantula' - a VERY well known T. Give it a go, and look at page 2 and three on images. there are avics, a GBB a 'king baboon'. On page 4 there is even a brachy!


Yep! Precisely!



roll up boy said:


> i find the lating names extremely hard to learn, spell and remember:blush:
> 
> i personally find common names easier
> 
> it takes me ages sometimes to google the names:blush: :lol2:


But if you took the time to sit down and actually LEARN them then you would get to grips with it. Trying to say it helps with the spelling too.



kingbaboon said:


> knowing how to keep ur t or whatever properly is more important than 'a couple of words', and lifes deffo too short to judge someone on weather they call a _Chromatopelma cyanopubescens a gbb._


Aye, but then you get an 'orange baboon tarantula' and you google a caresheet so that you can keep it properly. What comes up? A caresheet for Citharischius crawshayi, Pterinochilus murinus RCF, Pterinochilus lugardi... all of which kept slightly different... so what do you do? Whereas, google a caresheet for the scientific name and bingo! Job done.

IMO it's laziness not to learn the scientific names... People take the time to discover, classify and name these things then we come along and call it the obvious "orange baboon spider", "chilean dwarf"... Bah, i hate it :lol2:

I know the scientific names for all my spiders and i can type them out and tell you them all off the top of my head. I can stand in my room and only a handful of my tubs are labelled yet i know what each one is... god knows what the common names are though!! Yet i still keep them properly..

Also, it makes everything 100x harder for us people who actually breed them etc! Many times ive enquired about males and they've been completely different!! Now someone who just goes on common names wouldnt know the difference, mate the spider and ta da.. hybrid!! Then sell it as the same as the pet names, or whatever supposed scientific name google gives it, and then we have them circling and mixing with the pure spiders and every genus ends up in the same state as Avicularia and Ceratogyrus!!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm lazy.

Sue me.

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Your male, it's normal  

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

enlightenment said:


> Well said, KB.
> 
> :no1:


thnx fella, glad to find someone who (finally) agrees with me! ha! : victory:

becky, i tottaly agree with what ur saying, n if ur selling or breeding then i think its only but ur duty to state a scientific name.if i was selling or doin a study then i would find it apropriate too.not only that but out of respect to others such as urself also.
but i think one of enlightenments points was that esp on a forum were the conversation runs freely he doesnt n shouldnt feel the need to make sure hes spelt or got the scientific name right because u can bet ur ass some c:censor:nt will pull u or make a smart ass remark bout spelling it wrong! lol :devil: n esp not to be judged by his choosing not to use scientific names too.

anyways just my 2 pennys worth.oh n hi all im new here btw! :smile:


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

well lets hope we dont get into poor english and text speak then,,,,


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

Toeboe said:


> well lets hope we dont get into poor english and text speak then,,,,


now, im fleunt in that! lol......


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Can't stand text speak.. about the only one i use is "u" lol 

Oh and "lol" :lol2:

I use scientific names all the time, in none of my posts will you see my T's labelled with common names... just don't like it!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

kingbaboon said:


> wouldnt say its a case of not wanting to learn scientific names its just what comes easiest to me.tho i do agree its a deffo advantage to learn the 'correct' way and maybe if i didnt suffer from dyslexia i might spend more time learning them.tho just like any other species of animal, knowing how to keep ur t or whatever properly is more important than 'a couple of words', and lifes deffo too short to judge someone on weather they call a _Chromatopelma cyanopubescens a gbb._



Simply put, if someone speaks to me in the correct language then I am more likely to assume they know what they are talking about and are not wasting my time. Saying "there's more to life" is a cop out. There's more to life than pets full stop, theres more to life than getting the correct care conditions, theres more to life than even bothering to learn the common name. Theres more to life than opinions on a forum, yet we still bother. I don't see that as a justifiable argument for not learning a couple of words. I also don't see dyslexia as an excuse - thats my opinion, and I have my reasons for it.

As for names becoming dated, well it happens, but most people within your lifespan will still know what you are talking about if you use a slightly out of date term.

Anyway: If you want to be taken seriously, learn the language associated with what you are talking about. If you speak in common names, then so be it - but don't get offended if people assume you are a beginner, it's that simple.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

I don't think many ppl would come into the hobby without a background of foreign languages and roll off scientific names with ease. And nor would anyone expect them to. But its an extension of our hobbies to learn more and learning the scientific name is more accurate than the common names. Many of these scientific names have been abbreviated, eg. A. genic (easier than Brazilian White Knee), Avics, Pokies, Grammies, C. darlingi (easier than East African Horned Baboon), L. para, blondi, gigas etc.

They also help to group families together eg. Brachypelma, we can easily distinguish the range of this genus by using the scientific name, but the same wouldn't be true of the common name:
Brachypelma auratum = Mexican flame knee
Brachypelma baumgarteni =Mexican orange beauty
Brachypelma boehmi - Mexican fire leg, Mexicanbeauty
Brachypelma emilia = Mexican true red leg
Brachypelma klaasi =Mexican pink
Brachypelma smithi = Mexican red knee
Brachypelma vagans = Mexican red rump

the following don't fit into the "Mexican" forename:
Brachypelma albopilosum = Honduras curly hair
Brachypelma angustum =Costa Rican red
Brachypelma epicureanum =Yucatan rust rump

With B. albopilosum the distribution is far higher in Costa Rica than Honduras!

African baboons are another example, consisting of Ceratogyrus, Citharischius, Hysterocrates and Pterinochilus.

Colour is also often used in common names to describe species, pink toes as slings don't actually have pink toes they're black! Cameroon reds don't develop their colours til long past sling stage, chaco gold knee don't have gold knees as slings or juvs, and many species have very different colouration as mature males and females.

Last year at BTS I was asked on our table for a zebra tarantula. Did he mean a Thai Zebra (H. albostriata) or a Pink Zebra (E. camperstratus) or perhaps Costa Rican Zebra (A. seemani). We had the later (which again doesnt develop its colours til adult), but he went home rather confused.

Personally I prefer scientific names and those that use them tend to have a more accurate ID of what species they have. If I search for papers on a particular species I certainly don't use common names and if I wish to trace the history or explore the BNHM I definitely don't refer to common names. 

Its quite funny when you think about it, this subject rears its head regularly, and the "I don't know latin" or "nobody uses latin anymore" is often repeated. But please, somebody tell me who knows the common name for T. rex? and what child hasn't heard of them! 

Remember, in a forum, text, email, pm etc nobody knows whether you've pronounced it right or wrong, and in speech we all have a tendency to put our own accents on words - scones or scones? 

PS: If you want a funny read on someone who stubbornly refused to use the "latin" names in an email correspondence, check out Stanley Schultz. It certainly made me laugh.


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> scones or scones?


Scones,,,obviously,,,:lol2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> Can't stand text speak.. about the only one i use is "u" lol
> 
> Oh and "lol" :lol2:
> 
> I use scientific names all the time, in none of my posts will you see my T's labelled with common names... just don't like it!


Do you refer to your child as _**** sapien_, or it's given name?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

GRB said:


> I don't see that as a justifiable argument for not learning a couple of words. I also don't see dyslexia as an excuse - thats my opinion, and I have my reasons for it..


Whatever your reasons, I think that comes across as a bit harsh on the guy, to be honest.

Not one person here is stating that we should abandon scientific names, not at all.

But I have heard you yourself use common names. I have seen you refer to your velvet worm as such, for example.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> I don't think many ppl would come into the hobby without a background of foreign languages and roll off scientific names with ease. And nor would anyone expect them to. But its an extension of our hobbies to learn more and learning the scientific name is more accurate than the common names. Many of these scientific names have been abbreviated, eg. A. genic (easier than Brazilian White Knee), Avics, Pokies, Grammies, C. darlingi (easier than East African Horned Baboon), L. para, blondi, gigas etc.
> 
> They also help to group families together eg. Brachypelma, we can easily distinguish the range of this genus by using the scientific name, but the same wouldn't be true of the common name:
> Brachypelma auratum = Mexican flame knee
> ...


 
I will do.

The rest of your post was good.

In the end, my only point is that both can be used in tandem on forums, and if buying, you can always contact the seller to be totally sure.

: victory:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

But if they've bought it by common name and are a beginner and then you buy it as what google says that common name is, then you get it as something else... would you not be a bit narked and wished they'd known the scientific name??


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> Do you refer to your child as _**** sapien_, or it's given name?


Not really a fair point, it is clear what species a human is.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Do you refer to your child as _**** sapien_, or it's given name?


/

He is referred to as 'child'!!

Here is what he has to say for himself as he is clawing my keyboard!!
![
.99[,.l;' m,úftdbvcd5c5gtbnr5ffyhfr5fuitmhy,j.kolp;;lkjl múmjhbgvttmlmk ybip-09-i8888 j 

Just like that!

#;'[p


:lol2:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Becky said:


> /
> 
> múm


 
My god he's typed his first word! :lol: 

(This is genuinely him doing it, literally just bashing the keyboard lol)


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Willyleigh said:


> Not really a fair point, it is clear what species a human is.


Sometimes the common Chavus gets confused with the Pikeymonus

:whistling2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> My god he's typed his first word! :lol:
> 
> (This is genuinely him doing it, literally just bashing the keyboard lol)


Sure he has.

Do you have MBP?

:whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> Whatever your reasons, I think that comes across as a bit harsh on the guy, to be honest.
> 
> Not one person here is stating that we should abandon scientific names, not at all.
> 
> But I have heard you yourself use common names. I have seen you refer to your velvet worm as such, for example.


I call them velvet worms because I don't know what the genus is...it's all very well saying "peripatus sp." but they could equally likely be something else, as with the solifuge.

I dont actually mind the occassional use of common names - what gets me is the reliance on them and general "omg it's too hard" attitude that seems to accompany scientific names. Its not too hard, it just takes effort. You're buying the animal anyway, you might as well learn the name along with the care conditions. 

As for Dyslexia, well, I simply don't see how dyslexia would be a reason against learning scientific names. None of the symptoms i've read about specifically stop people learning new words outright, and most seems to be aimed at speech, or spelling, not the ability to take in new material. I dont see it as a harsh comment at all - if someone mentions "cause X" as a cause of some inability and I suggest its not the full reason it's hardly a scathing personal attack, is it?


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

GRB said:


> Simply put, if someone speaks to me in the correct language then I am more likely to assume they know what they are talking about and are not wasting my time. Saying "there's more to life" is a cop out. There's more to life than pets full stop, theres more to life than getting the correct care conditions, theres more to life than even bothering to learn the common name. Theres more to life than opinions on a forum, yet we still bother. I don't see that as a justifiable argument for not learning a couple of words. I also don't see dyslexia as an excuse - thats my opinion, and I have my reasons for it.
> 
> As for names becoming dated, well it happens, but most people within your lifespan will still know what you are talking about if you use a slightly out of date term.
> 
> Anyway: If you want to be taken seriously, learn the language associated with what you are talking about. If you speak in common names, then so be it - but don't get offended if people assume you are a beginner, it's that simple.


'Theres more to life than opinions on a forum, yet we still bother' - i wish i hadnt shared mine with u to be honest fella lol.i stated my opinion on why i dnt think enlightenment,me or u for that matter should be judged if u chose to use a comman name to describe a t.i agreed with most of what was said n didnt say anthing was rite or wrong i dont think?anyway,u just proved my point by judging me straight off the bat....

dyslexia IS my excuse for being a thick tw:censor:t , whats urs for being a patronizing c:censor:nt?


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

Why is it that nobody seems capable of putting there point across without arguing
Or reading other ppls posts without being offended


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Sighs.

Did you read the next post?

Why don't you tell me what symptoms exactly would stop you from learning scientific names? Do you have trouble learning new words full stop?


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

At the end of the day If anybody wants to be in this hobby and progress, and become respected by other keepers, then latin names are a must.
Wether someone has Dyslexia, is just thick, arrogant, whatever there is no excuse for not being willing to learn.
Its sort of like buying an animal and refusing to learn how to take care of it properly 
because you feel its too hard.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

GRB said:


> IAs for Dyslexia, well, I simply don't see how dyslexia would be a reason against learning scientific names. ?


Couldn't say.

I know no one with it, and I do not have it.

Hard to spell it though


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Anyway, dyslexia is NOT an excuse for not even trying. 

Dyslexia doesnt make you stupid either, stupidity does. Dont dare try to bring dyslexics down to that level of behaviour - there's plenty of dyslexics here at Uni who manage just fine and dont use it as an _excuse_ for anything.


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

Although dyslexia is thought to be the result of a neurological difference, it is not an intellectual disability. Dyslexia is diagnosed in people of all levels of intelligence.

My dads dyslexic and like most ppl with the condition it only affects his spelling and reading. He is fine with learning latin names just not great at spelling some of the more difficult ones


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

lycanlord20 said:


> Although dyslexia is thought to be the result of a neurological difference, it is not an intellectual disability. Dyslexia is diagnosed in people of all levels of intelligence.
> 
> My dads dyslexic and like most ppl with the condition it only affects his spelling and reading. He is fine with learning latin names just not great at spelling some of the more difficult ones


+1. That was pretty much my sentiments, although it obviously hit a nerve cluster. 

I'm still laughing at how someone who flat out refuses to try to use scientific names would expect not to be judged in any way, shape or form. On an internet forum. You'd be lucky to get that on the high street let alone on the net.


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

Before anyone points it out ill just add that the sentence about what dyslexia is was found online.
I have no problem with people who dont understand latin names at first, as lets face it everyone is a noob at some point,
But you have to be willing to learn in any hobby, especially those where not knowing ends up in misidentification.
I mean ppl have been sold L.quinquestriatus in pet shops, these pet shops have had them listed as all sorts, more than likely
because there suppliers have not known or not given latin names and instead just given names like, yellow dessert scorpion,
this could be dangerous, and thats why latin names really are an essential


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

kingbaboon said:


> 'dyslexia IS my excuse for being a thick tw:censor:t , whats urs for being a patronizing c:censor:nt?


Sorry but this quote is far too funny to be ignored. :lol2:

Seriously though, hasn't this thread run its course? Its reaching that point that lots of interesting but contentious discussions do. The point where people ignore the genuine intentions of the OP (sorry if thats text speak,lol), take it out of context and get personal.
Ok, so what if he inferred that his preference would be to err more on the common names. Thats his opinion and we are all entitled to one. Lots of us use both scientific and common and thats fine. Accurate id's are better obtained by using scientific, but hey its not that important to most of us in every day life. I personally prefer to use scientific, but it just sounds so clumsy at times. Yes yes yes I could recite it to myself all day and night until i feel more comfy, but I dont have contact with many people who know one end of a tarantula from the other, so whats the point. I'm capable of typing whatever I feel suits the moment though and nobody should be castigated for that.

Uvavu or Iranu is fine by me,,,:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

pronouncing and spelling mostly.as i said, in a forum setting were converstation is flowing quickly its pretty impossible for me to type.tho my dyslexia wasnt realy the point i was trying to make.it was just one reason why i have trouble learning certain names esp typing them.some people do, some people dont, some people dont care, i know i dont.i try n make sure my txt is readable, relevent n can b understood out of respect for everybody else whol read it.surley thats all thats needed?unless im to sell something or rite a book on scientific names sometime in the near future lol....

i know the scientific names for what i own n have owned n studied but apart from that im alil hazy.if that makes me sound like a beginer or not then thats kool.either way its all good fella, no offense n all that.i try n keep all my t's to the best of my abilaty so surley thats all u should care bout?


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

GRB said:


> +1. That was pretty much my sentiments, although it obviously hit a nerve cluster.
> 
> I'm still laughing at how someone who flat out refuses to try to use scientific names would expect not to be judged in any way, shape or form. On an internet forum. You'd be lucky to get that on the high street let alone on the net.


sorry?!? i never said i never use them or think its wrong, let alone 'flat out refuse' to use em.so thats a flat out lie no?!yes its an internet forum n uv proved whats exactly whats wrong with them,patronizing ignorant idiots like u impose ur views on others online because 'on the high street' u wouldnt dare!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Even if we all agreed in this thread, or forum, or hobby to use either common or scientific names both will crop up. We have both, and some people have a preference, its as simple as that.

Our "English" language is derived from Latin, Greek, French and other sources. We unwittingly speak other languages and yet consider it a barrier when we're asked to do so. Ironically we'll adopt new phrases (bling, chav etc) and put new meanings to old words, *** and gay were totally different, then they became the same, and now they're derogatory.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> Even if we all agreed in this thread, or forum, or hobby to use either common or scientific names both will crop up. We have both, and some people have a preference, its as simple as that.
> .


Exactly right.

Too many drama queens over reacting, imo...:whistling2:


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

enlightenment said:


> I'm lazy.
> 
> Sue me.
> 
> :Na_Na_Na_Na:


:lol2:

It's one of those things, it goes hand in hand with trouble spelling or a less than great memory. 
The more you (not necessarily you personally!) resist it the more you make it into an issue, you see people using them as being deliberately aloof or maintaining their own exclusive club. It isn't a status symbol or a way of making some people feel stupid, it's just accurate.

I could reel off hundreds of scientific names, a couple of hundred for actual species of fish, inverts and herps that I've actually kept and hundreds that I haven't, I just have a great memory and a knack for it.

My other half knows a handful (mostly because he's never needed to before) He knows _Boa constrictor constrictor, Pogona vitticeps, Bufo bufo, Pedostibes, terribilis_ and "Cornelius corny?" 
He's a down to earth kind of bloke and isn't intimidated by scientific names but he is interested to learn them at a pace he can manage 

Perseverance 
Lotte***


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

Well im not gunna say anymore or change what I have said so far.
Oh and king baboon, im sure most of us would say this face to face, 
I know I would.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Saedcantas said:


> :lol2:
> 
> It's one of those things, it goes hand in hand with trouble spelling or a less than great memory.
> The more you (not necessarily you personally!) resist it the more you make it into an issue, you see people using them as being deliberately aloof or maintaining their own exclusive club. It isn't a status symbol or a way of making some people feel stupid, it's just accurate.
> ...


When scientific names are changed or abbreviated, does the average person perhaps find that throws them a bit?


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## kingbaboon (Jan 30, 2009)

lycanlord20 said:


> Well im not gunna say anymore or change what I have said so far.
> Oh and king baboon, im sure most of us would say this face to face,
> I know I would.


u didnt lie or make a stupid judgment bout me tho mate,n if u did u kept it to urself! lol.u just gave an opinion wich i agree with, but even if i didnt ur entitled to ur opinion.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Probably not really, since most people aren't dealing with many of these names anyway.

You read about why the name is changed, you think for yourself about whether this is commonly accepted already or how much you see the logic in it. Then you decide if you're going to be a stickler and stay with the name you knew (plenty of people still using _Chondropython_ for example, stubborn swines lol) or you see the sense and learn to replace the old name with the new (When someone gets married you learn to now use their new surname maybe, when you move house you learn to use your new address and replace the old with ease.)

Lotte***


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

: victory: peace n love


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> When scientific names are changed or abbreviated, does the average person perhaps find that throws them a bit?


perhaps, but most ppl catch on. I don't feel the need to say Brachypelma smithi, most ppl call them smithi and in the case of C. cyaneopubescens I have to admit its easier to say GBB as it is with OBT. Most ppl realise what a H. mac is, an A. genic, a versi or a P. camb but Singapore Blue or King Baboon are often used rather than their scientific names. So, I use both and often follow with the scientific name to confirm proper ID. As I've illustrated above common names can be misleading and inaccurate but there doesnt have to a be a hard rule to it. Nor should there be a stubborn approach to not knowing them. Misspellings are forgiven, A. genic or A. genec its obvious what we're talking about.

My personal favourite is the scientific name for an Australian gecko - Underwoodisaurus sphyrurus — Border Thick-tailed Gecko


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Exactly right.
> 
> Too many drama queens over reacting, imo...:whistling2:


Come off it, you only start these threads to sit back and watch everyone argue! :lol2:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

lycanlord20 said:


> Well im not gunna say anymore or change what I have said so far.
> Oh and king baboon, im sure most of us would say this face to face,
> I know I would.


To be fair, in person when i speak to my spidery friends we only use the second part of the scientific name i.e so talking about king baboon would be 'crawshayi'... Unless it gets to where there are a few different spiders named the same species but different genus i.e smithi, metallica in which case most of the time the genus are shortened anyway! 

Pokie, Avic, Brachy, Grammy... It's not difficult :lol2:

When i go to Ray's house i am in awe at how much information his brain contains! He can reel off genus names i've not even heard of and i get lost lol But it really is amazing stuff. Whereas when i stand in the shite petshop at crews hill and hes reeling off common names i could punch him :lol2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> Come off it, you only start these threads to sit back and watch everyone argue! :lol2:


Yeah.

Well either that or I would be stuck having to answer - 'What scorp would be a good starter scorp', every other day, huh...

:whistling2:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

So.

Where did common names stem from?

Who started it?

And why?


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

The ancient Latino's,,,because they couldn't be arsed hammering the big words into rock faces,,:lol2:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> So.
> 
> Where did common names stem from?
> 
> ...


Don't know for sure but i vote the pet trade collectors/sellers/dealers


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Becky said:


> Don't know for sure but i vote the pet trade collectors/sellers/dealers


Indeed. It was a way of communicating what was being traded between people who had no idea what was being traded.

Ironic.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Haha enough said


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> Don't know for sure but i vote the pet trade collectors/sellers/dealers


 
Why didn't they all use the scientific names then?

:welcome:


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## ph0bia (Feb 21, 2009)

Because these people had no idea what scientific names were... they just exported them or imported them for their looks. At the time they were exciting new species of an alienistic creature.

It doesn't get much weirder than an arachnid, especially spiders, so they were quickly farmed and sent around the world for collections and pets.

It's always going to be easier to use common names than scientific when dealing with the ignorant masses. Who hear says Pogona vitticeps rather than 'Bearded Dragon' or 'Felinus cattus' rather than cat? Scientific names SHOULD be used, they're more accurate, and far better to work with than confusing common names.

However, as long as tarantulas exist in the mind of the layman, then they will have common names. It's an annoying truth that we as enthusiasts need to cope with. Learn the scientific names as best you can, they're not hard and we're not asking you to learn them all overnight.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

ph0bia said:


> It's always going to be easier to use common names than scientific *when dealing with the ignorant masses*. Who hear says Pogona vitticeps rather than 'Bearded Dragon' or 'Felinus cattus' rather than cat?


I'm doing this, as a try to type... :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Why didn't they all use the scientific names then?
> 
> :welcome:


It's not in their interest to get the species right, as long as they can sell them. So they just give them a name, put it on their lists and sell it on. No skin off their nose if they get it wrong is there?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> It's not in their interest to get the species right, as long as they can sell them. So they just give them a name, put it on their lists and sell it on. No skin off their nose if they get it wrong is there?


Whose interests is it_ not_ in? Sellers? I would say that it is very much in their interests. After all, since there seems to be such a thing about this, would buyers not buy MORE, if they knew their seller was 'getting it right'?


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

No the people that catch them for the sellers. Sellers such as Lee etc are reputable and you should hope you know what you're getting, but some dealers really don't care!
I know of a few that sell things as other things to get more money. I.E Peter Grabowitz... Selling Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple" spiderlings as Avicularia sp. Amazonica just to get the higher price tags!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

What's_ your_ scientific name?

I am assuming 'Becky' is the common name..:whistling2:

x


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I've been called many names but i'll stick to Becky :whistling2: x


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