# shelf liner



## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi, new to rfuk and soon to own my 1st BD. Substrate seems to be a mine field and after researching every possible type, shelf liner seems to be the only one that doesnt have health problems. Is shelf liner for my BD viv the standard stuff you can get from amazon or staples and will it melt under the lights?

Srry if im being thick


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

it's a common misconception that the heat is going to be amazingly hot. It's just like summer and no where near as hot as a washing up bowl full of hot water. You've nothing to worry about with the lino and bulb heat.


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks. Think i'll be on here quite a bit asking stupid questions! But better to ask n get it right. Another stupid question, is kale and curly kale the same thing?


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## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

Another substrate you could use is Tile, Get it from b&q very cheap. 
It has no risks, holds heat well and, is easy to clean and looks good too:2thumb:
Not too sure about the Kale though mate...


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

good idea, will any type do and how do you stick em down? :blush:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

why not use sand? thats a more natural substrate. And if you keep the animal correctly there is no health problems.....i mean they dont live on lino or tiles in the wild and that seem to do ok.


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Being a newbe, its hard to decide wot to do when every1s advice conflicts with each other. sand would seem the obvious choice but i dont want it to get ill from eating it. The pet shop where im getting it from uses aspen but every1 says thats really bad 2? just want it to be healthy n happy


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

sand is not un healthy dont use man made sands use natural sand these have rounded edges so if they do swollow it it will not cause any internal damage as it passes through. They live on the stuff in the wild so it cant be that bad. And normally if they start eating the substrate its a husbandry issue ie you are doing something a little wrong. if you have the correct temps. and UV and dusting the food with calcium or what ever you are going to use then there should be no problems. In my mind putting an animal on a tile or other unnatural substrate is making up for possible poor husbandry skills. There simply is no need for it in my eyes.


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

Fudgepig said:


> Thanks. Think i'll be on here quite a bit asking stupid questions! But better to ask n get it right. Another stupid question, is kale and curly kale the same thing?


Yes, curly kale is just a type of kale.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

leecb0 said:


> sand is not un healthy dont use man made sands use natural sand these have rounded edges so if they do swollow it it will not cause any internal damage as it passes through. *They live on the stuff in the wild so it cant be that bad*. And normally if they start eating the substrate its a husbandry issue ie you are doing something a little wrong. if you have the correct temps. and UV and dusting the food with calcium or what ever you are going to use then there should be no problems. In my mind putting an animal on a tile or other unnatural substrate is making up for possible poor husbandry skills. There simply is no need for it in my eyes.



not really, sandstone paving slabs would be more natural. They live in the Australian Outback, not Egypt; It's more like a hard packed clay surface with a fine layer of sand over it.
So sticking one on 4 inches of sand would also come under your poor husbandry heading.

and the 'no sand' is to do with it binding and impacting the lizard, nothing to do with sharpe edges causing internal damage.


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## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

I think the simplest thing would be just to go with Tile, no one can argue about danger of impaction, they are natural and help keep your beardies nails short. Youn dont need to stick them down, just place them so when your beardie poops on them you can pull it out and wipe it clean.


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your advice. It has been really helpful :notworthy:
You have all given me a lot to think about but i will probably go with the tile to start with. when i am a lot more experienced then i may change my mind, but until then i cant run the risk of hurting my new little friend cus of my ignorance. thanks again to you all


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## babymarley (Nov 24, 2009)

Aup i was looking into making my viv look abit better, i use newspaper atm but was wondering about vinly tiles...?? what ya think? I used green sand befor but it seems to stane my BD skin so i dont use it no more. And i got advised not to put my BD on sand befor they reatch about 6-7 mounths old as they could have difficulty digesting the sand. Just what i got told. Anyways gl with the BD


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Meko said:


> not really, sandstone paving slabs would be more natural. They live in the Australian Outback, not Egypt; It's more like a hard packed clay surface with a *fine layer of sand over it*.
> So sticking one on 4 inches of sand would also come under your poor husbandry heading.
> 
> and the 'no sand' is to do with it binding and impacting the lizard, nothing to do with sharpe edges causing internal damage.


so what your saying is they live on sand..........:bash:

i never said anything about 4 inches of sand but if its on for inches or a fine dusting......THEY LIVE AND EAT ON SAND......

And in all the years i kept BD i never once had any impaction i also have never heard of any other keeper having a problem...the biggest problem is when people dont give the animal enough calcium in there diet....this in my book Poor husbandry........as You said they live on a fine layer of sand in the wild, and this doesnt cause them a problem.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

but a fine coating isn't living 'on' sand. there's sand on the floor but it's it's more like a dusty road. You wouldn't say you have dog hairs on the stairs because there's dog hairs on the carpet.

This is the newbie section where new owners ask for advice so 'they live on sand in the wild' doesn't tell the true story. Yes there will be sandy areas and there'll be grassy areas and also roads but as people are usually looking for advice on their first we need to be helpful with the advice. 
I agree with you that sand doesn't cause as many problems as people like to bang on about but if the OP uses sand you can bet your arse that as soon as they post pictures on here somebody will tell them to get them off the sand before it kills them.... so it's easier if we try and be as accurate as possible so they can make an informed decision instead of 'somebody told me they.............'


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

oh dear, think i caused a bit of an argument there :lol2: both advise has been really helpful. i really appreciate an informed view. i have 1 book and another 2 on order, i pick up my viv at the wknd, hopefully, but not the dragon until 25th. im hoping this will give me time to sort my temps and iron out any problems b4 the baby arrives. until then (and after) i will be trawling thro this site getting as much info as i possibly can.


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Aup, babymarley. thought about lino and have been advised it quite a good option. only problem i see is it wont wear down their claws so you with probably end up having to trim them. but dont quote me on that cus ive not got my dragon yet n am totally new to this. :lol2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Fudgepig said:


> oh dear, think i caused a bit of an argument there :lol2: both advise has been really helpful. i really appreciate an informed view. i have 1 book and another 2 on order, i pick up my viv at the wknd, hopefully, but not the dragon until 25th. im hoping this will give me time to sort my temps and iron out any problems b4 the baby arrives. until then (and after) i will be trawling thro this site getting as much info as i possibly can.


 
nah no argument.. the arguments usually come once it's on sand.. lol
I agree with him that they're fine on sand BUT there is a slight risk with any loose substrate if they eat it. Unfortunately lots of people are a bit over protective and think sand is evil and it will kill anything.
I just think it makes more sense to give the full details so you're armed with enough information to make your own decision rather that 'sand is bad, don't use sand' or 'they live on sand so 4 inches must be ok'


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

If you want something that looks really good and is safe try slate tiles (not chips), they are a little more expensive than other types of tiles but look great. Try going to your local tile store. Sometimes they sell off part packs cause one or two got broken. Cheaper way of doing it!


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks, was thinking of doing that this wknd.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

: victory: sounds like you have it all planned out


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Meko said:


> but a fine coating isn't living 'on' sand. there's sand on the floor but it's it's more like a dusty road. You wouldn't say you have dog hairs on the stairs because there's dog hairs on the carpet.
> 
> This is the newbie section where new owners ask for advice so 'they live on sand in the wild' doesn't tell the true story. Yes there will be sandy areas and there'll be grassy areas and also roads but as people are usually looking for advice on their first we need to be helpful with the advice.
> I agree with you that sand doesn't cause as many problems as people like to bang on about but if the OP uses sand you can bet your arse that as soon as they post pictures on here somebody will tell them to get them off the sand before it kills them.... so it's easier if we try and be as accurate as possible so they can make an informed decision instead of 'somebody told me they.............'


 
Right i came on here with a little advice for somebody, Meko why do you always have to bring everything down to an argeument. Ok i said they live on sand in the wild....what was wrong with that satatement? you even agree with me that they live in sandy areas in the wild. The point i was making was that most people i know keep there BD on sand in captivity with no ill effects which you even agree with. So why start an arguement over how much sand they live on in the wild????? we are not talking about the natural history of the things just on how to keep them in captivity. I never mentioned keeping them on 4 inches of sand either....So from now on why not actually understand that some people to keep things short and not over complicate things may say something like ...."Bearded dragons live on sand in the wild"........just as generalisation rather than anything else. :bash:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

you're a clown, i can't even be bothered giving you a proper reply.


Instead of your boo hoo hoo, go and read my last post where i said i agreed with you about sand. It's not my fault if you lack the ability to read but just look at words. Now just sling it.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Meko said:


> you're a clown, i can't even be bothered giving you a proper reply.
> 
> 
> Instead of your boo hoo hoo, go and read my last post where i said i agreed with you about sand. It's not my fault if you lack the ability to read but just look at words. Now just sling it.


 
YAY i won........i beat the most argumentative person on RFUK :Na_Na_Na_Na::whistling2:


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## Fudgepig (Jan 13, 2011)

:lol2: u 2 have really cheered me up, this is much better than eastenders! only joking, thanks 4 all yr help :notworthy:


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