# So you think you want a pet fox? But do you....



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Silver foxes (as the semi-domestic ex-fur farm descendants are know to differentiate between captive stock and wild red foxes) are stunningly beautiful, elegant and fascinating creatures so its little wonder that they are on so many peoples bucket lists. But what are they really like to keep? 
As breeding season isn't all that far away and I've been seeing a lot of 'Wanted: Pet Fox' type threads and adverts , I thought I'd give you all some food for thought. 

*Lets get the cons out of the way first shall we? *
* Foxes smell really bad. Foxes have BO that smells quite a lot like weed... And when I say they smell, I'm not talking about the sort of smell that disappears so long as the enclosure is kept free of urine and faeces. I'm talking about a smell that is on par with ferrets in its ability to linger and that it is the animal themselves that stink. 
*Foxes are noisy. They usually like to pick the exact moment you get into bed or someone walks past your garden or the bloke comes to read your electricity metre to decide to have a screaming session. They generally time their screaming for maximum embarrassment. Some foxes are noisier than others but most will scream in excitement, when they're angry, when they're hungry or just when the mood takes them....
* They are seriously destructive. If its not nailed down, they'll try to eat it. If it isn't made of granite, they'll chew it. They don't care how expensive or hard-wearing your carpet is, they'll dig it up. This and the next bullet point are the main reasons they don't make suitable house pets at all. 
*They really don't litter train. Foxes are not animals that naturally pick a latrine area and stick to defecating there alone. Instead they pee and poo wherever they happen to be standing when they feel the urge to go. They pee and poo when they're excited, when they're annoyed and when they just need to evacuate. Which is often. 
* They go through what fox keepers refer to as the 'Autumn Crazies'. This is caused by a huge spike in hormones and can make even usually placid and friendly foxes unsociable, extremely noisy, snappy and even downright aggressive. Most calm back down once their hormones settle but some never completely revert back to what was previously normal temperament. 
* They need a lot of space. Remember me saying that they don't make suitable house pets? Because of this, they need a large outdoor enclosure that is a bare minimum of 100sq feet in size. It needs to have a solid or completely wired base to prevent them from digging out. It needs to have a roof to prevent them climbing out. It needs to have suitable enrichment and climbing opportunities. Don't be tempted to cut corners and use chicken wire because they,re quite capable of breaking through it. Use heavy gauge mesh of good quality. 
* Their bites SUCK.
* Not all vets will so much as look at a pet fox so be organised and find a willing vet BEFORE you take the plunge.
* People are judgemental twats and are highly like to be horrified to find out that you keep these animals. 

*So are there any pros to keeping them? Well, yeah, if you can get passed all of the above!*
They can bond really tightly with their owner. They can be extremely affectionate and they are incredibly fun to sit and watch. With effort and dedication, they can be engaging, rewarding and fun animals to work with. 

*Not completely put off yet? *
Time to discuss what a fox needs to be safe and properly cared for and the general costs (approximate and in pounds) of setting up an enclosure and keeping them healthy. 

* 100 sq ft enclosure with secure double door entry - 1000 - 1800
* Climbing shelves and ramps - 350
* Pressure Washer - 100
* Micro-chipping - 15
* Vaccinations - 50
* Worming - 10 per every 3 months
* Flea and tick prevention - 10 every month
* Food - Around 80-100 per month

*Still with me? Bloody hell, I guess you're serious!* 
Ok, so you've decided that you really do want a fox, you've built an enclosure and now you need to find one. 
Please treat searching for a pet fox like you should when searching out an ethical breeder to buy a puppy from. 
Expect to be asked questions and prove that you have the knowledge and enthusiasm to commit long term to an animal that may very will live over a decade. 
If the breeder ISN'T asking you questions and grilling you on your suitability and knowledge of foxes, walk away. Breeders like that are the ones responsible for foxes that wind up setting re-homed after being sold to someone who lives in a bedsit, thinks they'll make perfect house pets or isn't educated on seasonal hormonal spikes etc. 

The reason I have put an age restriction of 21 on my future cubs is that I hate seeing foxes that can no longer be kept when people more forward with their lives (e.g going to uni, moving into rented accommodation that doesn't allow foxes, working too many hours) and at 16 or 18, it's hard to know what you'll be doing in even two years time and for most people, the end of teenage-hood brings about big changes in lifestyle and commitments. 
I'm not entirely against the idea of people under 21 having foxes but it's a huge and very long term commitment and they're not for everyone. 
Even many seasoned exotics keepers can't contend with the smell, noise etc not to mention the two or three months when they are going through the "autumn crazies" where even the most sociable adult suddenly becomes a stroppy, nervous and bitey arse hole

Foxes themselves tend to cost around £400 - £600 each depending on colour and temperament. 
Diet should be as varied as possible and be around 70% raw meat, 10% raw bone and about 20% fruit and vegetables. 
Small amounts of very high quality dog and cat food can be given but bear in mind that foxes like cats and ferrets require dietary taurine unlike dogs so either supplement with something like Skunk-Vit or ensure that you're feeding plenty of raw heart, rabbit etc as well. 
Millies Wolfheart, Millies Lionheart, Origen and Canagan would be the kibbles of choice but don't fall into the rut of lazily just feeding biscuits and not offering plenty of fresh variety as that's bad practice. 

I hope this gives you a better idea as to weather or not foxes really might be for you. Please feel free to ask questions.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Brilliant thread Kat.

Foxes are on our list for one day in maybe a few years. We need the house with space etc first. I'm sure I will be picking your brains beforehand anyway. I'll need to arrange meet ups with other fox keepers too, so I can actually get a feel for them before deciding definitively.


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

You know you're welcome here to meet mine if ever you want Tarron! Just give me enough notice I can get the day off!


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Katalyst said:


> You know you're welcome here to meet mine if ever you want Tarron! Just give me enough notice I can get the day off!


Thank you for the offer. I may take you up on that one day. don't worry, it won't be any time soon. Need to buy a house . . .

(We are very picky about our house, needs to have land as we want some nice large outdoor enclosures for mammals, plus outdoor setups for various lacertids., needs a conservatory, or space for one, as I plan on removing the floor, planting directly in and having a large setup for the corucia, as well as other demands louise has but i don't listen to them hahaha)


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

Good thread, completly agree with everything stated here. On the "Autumn Crazies", just wanted to mention that many sites give the impression this only happens in their first year. I don't know if in some cases this is true but our vixen (who is spayed) goes through this every year. She will usualy still tolerate my partner interacting with her to a certain extent, but if I enter the enclosure during this time (bearing in mind I am usualy the one who feeds her) I am very likely to get attacked. On this note, food can be a major trigger point for aggression too. Foxes don't have the same social structure and hierachy as dogs. If you enter the enclosure with food it is not seen as yours, it is theirs and you are compertition or at the very least in the way. Training is also very different to training a dog, which will do what you tell it because you said it. Foxes can be trained but it is more like training a cat, very much food reward based. You also cannot stress enough how heavy duty the enclosure has to be. We made the mistake of building our first enclosure with good quality aviary weld mesh for both the walls and the underwireing. Parts of this had to be relpaced with more heavy duty mesh several times after she had ripped holes in it just climbing the wire, (this, no doubt, would have been far worse if there had been mesh at ground level where she could scratch at it. As it was the lower half of the walls were all paneled) and the final time she descided one night to dig a hole straight down through the mesh floor. I came out the next morning to find a tunnel under the enclosure big enough to crawl into (thankfully she had not yet dug back up to the surface on the other side of the wall). This is her current enclosure, which is now much better desgined. The pictures here were taken just after it was built so it still looks very barren compared to how it is now, it is heavily planted with far more logs, tree stumps, ledges etc added. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=725468777656797&id=360362547500757


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## Snowydinosaur (Aug 31, 2017)

I was just reading about silver foxes! I do think they're absolutely stunning but would never consider it for a pet. I thoroughly enjoyed the very informative post none the less. Thank you for that Katalyst.

And corvid2e1.... That enclosure is awesome!! It looks bigger than my back garden!:lol:

I'm really intrigued by all of this and am off to read more about foxes now; just because.


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Thanks for your input to this thread Corvid! Much appreciated. I often feel like I am the voice of doom amidst all the fluffy, cutesy videos of pet foxes and owners who have either got extremely lucky or have only got little amenable cubs that aren't pushing boundaries yet! 
With the autumn crazies, it seems pretty variable as to how bad the subsequent years are. 
My adults are showing little to no change so far this year but the youngest is already being weird. 
I also find some individuals more open to training than others.


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## Trallwm farm sanctuary (Nov 4, 2008)

*breathe of fresh air*

FABULOUS post. How very true. If people listened then sanctuaries wouldnt have to mop up pet trade. I have fabulous foxes here waiting for good homes. I wish the humans contacting me were half as fab or had a clue


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Trallwm farm sanctuary said:


> FABULOUS post. How very true. If people listened then sanctuaries wouldnt have to mop up pet trade. I have fabulous foxes here waiting for good homes. I wish the humans contacting me were half as fab or had a clue


It frustrates the hell out of me that some breeders are putting in so little effort into ensuring suitable homes for their babies.
I've got a litter planned for this coming season but had already started putting together a waiting list long before I announced the plans to breed them.
I've got something akin to a puppy contract that states that should the owner ever find themselves in a difficult situation and needs to rehome their fox, I'll take it back and/or find it suitable future accomodation. They are contractually obliged to contact me in that instance and not just sell it on to god knows who. 

Now... if I can do this, why can't others?

On an aside, I am part of a small network of fox keepers that help pet foxes in need to find a new home. Please do yell if you want us to ask one of our potential rehomers if they'd be able to help.









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## Rosy1810 (Nov 1, 2017)

Dies this apply to fennec foxes too? I've always wanted a pet fox but I have read many things similar to this that make me realise that if I ever am able to get one it won't be for many years yet. Though I was wondering if the same apply to fennecs too I think I remember reading somewhere that the smell less and are more expensive though I'm not too sure if I'm remembering correctly. Still don't plan on getting one anytime soon I'm just curious and keeping notes for future reference


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Rosy1810 said:


> Dies this apply to fennec foxes too? I've always wanted a pet fox but I have read many things similar to this that make me realise that if I ever am able to get one it won't be for many years yet. Though I was wondering if the same apply to fennecs too I think I remember reading somewhere that the smell less and are more expensive though I'm not too sure if I'm remembering correctly. Still don't plan on getting one anytime soon I'm just curious and keeping notes for future reference


Fennecs are very different in terms of dietary and housing requirements and considerably more delicate. 
They are still stinky and noisy though. 

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