# Turtles and Fish.....



## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi all, I'm new here! After being a guest reader for a few months and getting some really useful tips from you all (thanks =] ) I decided i'd sign up!
I'm new(ish) to the reptile world, I've started sensibly with 4 baby musk turtles but i've well and truely got the bug and i'm currently designing my own custom aquatic wonderland! (Outhouse full of turtles) 

The main problem I have is....
Every aquatics shop i have been into has advised against putting any sort of fish, with the exception of Plecs into the tank with my common musks.

I have 4 babies, only as big as table spoons.

I felt that surely some fish would be ok so i started with small, fast Danios..
Low and behold all still alive after nearly six weeks! The Turts chased them for about a day but they live in harmony now, they won't go for the fish at all.

Today I felt a bit braver so i tried 2 Red tail sharks, and 2 Angel fish (one black, one golden.) All of the fish are tiny, much smaller than the turtles.
The turtles left the sharks and the black Angel well alone, but went berserk and chased the golden one in a pack. I split them up a few times and gave them half an hour to settle in but they wouldn't leave it alone. I took the golden on back to the shop and swapped it for a darker coloured one, the turtles again have no problem with it what so ever and it has swam freely with no stress all night.

I have come up with 2 possible theories.

1) My turtles are racist - Only have problems with light coloured fish.
2) They associate light colours with food.

I've half tested the theory by wangling my fingers in the tank, obviously they bit me. I'm just waiting for my friend Anton to call in at weekend so i can see what happens when he wangles his hand in. (Anton is of African Decent)

Any of you Wise Owls have any other Theories?

My next tests will be with coloured fish, starting with a Blue Jack Dempsey that i've got my eye on!

Anyone else have a successful turtle/fish set up?

Thanks, 

Andi


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Hi all, I'm new here! After being a guest reader for a few months and getting some really useful tips from you all (thanks =] ) I decided i'd sign up!
> I'm new(ish) to the reptile world, I've started sensibly with 4 baby musk turtles but i've well and truely got the bug and i'm currently designing my own custom aquatic wonderland! (Outhouse full of turtles)
> 
> The main problem I have is....
> ...


WHERE do you unskilled and uneducated people come from? I'm going to give you the low-down before the rest of the site gets on your case. Musk Turtles are highly carnivorous and every fish in that tank is going to get eaten eventually. You could NOT have picked a worse species to attempt species-mixing except maybe Snapping Turtles. Why would you go ahead and do it after EVERY pet store advised you not to?? What is the point of asking for advice from professionals if you are going to ignore it? We are currently dealing w/ another fool who believes this type of species-mixing is acceptable....... and now comes along ANOTHER ONE. I swear, you people make me so angry just by EXISTING sometimes, man

*waits for everyone else to jump in and give the OP hell*


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm not that stupid!! I've already stated I removed the fish that they went for! I understand as the turtles grow they would make light work of the fish, but whilst they are little they co-habit fine! And when they do get bigger i intend to have more space to split them up Into (Aquatic Wonderland) I've seen the true idiots on here asking about putting snakes with tortoises, I'm not un-skilled or un-educated, merely asking for advice! I can't be the only person in the world with turtles and fish in the same tank?? I read a post earlier about someone who actually fed his snapper live guppies and Danios and nobody batted an eyelid? I think what you've said is a tad harsh.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Also, a pet store is bound to say that incase I bought a fish after them saying it would be fine and it getting shredded by the turts!

What species of turtle could I mix with fish?


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Shredder said:


> I'm not that stupid!! I've already stated I removed the fish that they went for! I understand as the turtles grow they would make light work of the fish, but whilst they are little they co-habit fine! And when they do get bigger i intend to have more space to split them up Into (Aquatic Wonderland) I've seen the true idiots on here asking about putting snakes with tortoises, I'm not un-skilled or un-educated, merely asking for advice! I can't be the only person in the world with turtles and fish in the same tank?? I read a post earlier about someone who actually fed his snapper live guppies and Danios and nobody batted an eyelid? I think what you've said is a tad harsh.




I'm not saying anything else.....just you wait and see what the rest of the site has to say to you about it. You're in for a rude-awakening, and the pet store told you not to mix fish w/ turtles because you should NOT mix fish with turtles. There is nothing left except: A.) admitting you made a mistake, separating the species and earning peoples' respect by doing so, or B.) continuing to disagree w/ the advice given because it's not the answers you wanted, argue and lose all credibility and respect from everyone.


I guarantee you 100% that one of those two things is going to happen, so make the right decision.

If nothing else, you CAN'T mix turtles with fish cuz the turtles screw up the water chemistry. If you have been guest reading, why didn't you read the other posts and threads on this topic?

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/fish-keeping/621354-high-ammonia-levels-sudden-strange.html

^^^^^the OP is wrong about every point, argument, debate and discussion he attempts to try and defend WHY he can do it. It's just not right, ....look and read all the comments the pros have said to him. This will be you shortly if you don't wisen-up.


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Shredder said:


> I read a post earlier about someone who actually fed his snapper live guppies and Danios and nobody batted an eyelid? I think what you've said is a tad harsh.


But turtles eat fish in the wild why not in captivity? When I kept turtles I housed Guppies and Platties in my aquaria knowing very well that they would get eaten, In some shops you can buy livebearers as feeders


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> WHERE do you unskilled and uneducated people come from? I'm going to give you the low-down before the rest of the site gets on your case. Musk Turtles are highly carnivorous and every fish in that tank is going to get eaten eventually. You could NOT have picked a worse species to attempt species-mixing except maybe Snapping Turtles. Why would you go ahead and do it after EVERY pet store advised you not to?? What is the point of asking for advice from professionals if you are going to ignore it? We are currently dealing w/ another fool who believes this type of species-mixing is acceptable....... and now comes along ANOTHER ONE. I swear, you people make me so angry just by EXISTING sometimes, man
> 
> *waits for everyone else to jump in and give the OP hell*


Why do you feel the need to just bombard him with angry comments? what happend to giving helpful advise to someone who has made/making mistakes? Politeness can get you far in life! : victory:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

*michael* said:


> Why do you feel the need to just bombard him with angry comments? what happend to giving helpful advise to someone who has made/making mistakes? Politeness can get you far in life! : victory:


Dude, hes not keeping GUPPIES. He's got Angelfish and he's about to put a beautiful $40-$80 Electric Blue Jack Dempsey in with a group of highly carnivorous turtles and he expects it NOT to get eaten. The fact that he asked pet stores for advice REPEATEDLY and ignored them already makes me angry.

There are already 50+ threads for this topic including the one that was located DIRECTLY BENEATH his thread. "Search Function" is a user's best friend. People get tired of wasting their breath on people who DON'T LISTEN. If you had to repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over .....i think you'd get a little frustrated too.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Victor Creed said:


> *waits for everyone else to jump in and give the OP hell*


Count me out. I have kept turtles and fish together. Have done for many years. 

And musk turtles and snappers are by NO means the worst offenders when it comes to turtle species co-habiting with fish :whistling2:


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Turtle Jo said:


> Count me out. I have kept turtles and fish together. Have done for many years.
> 
> And musk turtles and snappers are by NO means the worst offenders when it comes to turtle species co-habiting with fish :whistling2:


Me too and agree with the bit about musks and snappers too.



*michael* said:


> Why do you feel the need to just bombard him with angry comments? what happend to giving helpful advise to someone who has made/making mistakes? Politeness can get you far in life! : victory:



Well said.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

not again, wow, why to people keep trying this. its one thing keeping livebarers in with other fish to create a live food source, or even as a live food source, but most fish/animals they are kept with thankfully can finish them off in one bite so the death is fast. you have put in danios-fair enough small fish, and angelfish, well if/when they get big, they will slow down with their long fins, they are going to die an extreme and stressful death im sure. this doesnt even bring in the poor water quality these fish will be subjected to before they become dinner.

what size is this tank by the way, you did research your new fish right??? 2 sharks-1 tank :bash: highly territorial, 1 per tank, min tank size 4 ft due to size of territory. the under dog of these 2 will no doubt be constantly chased and harrassed when they grow, and no doubt those lovely innocent turtles will be there to catch and kill the poor fish when its chased from the safe parts of the tank.

i feel given you have actually been asking around, that you are a highly irresponsible person. you have been told, time and again, dont do it its not fair on the fish, yet you still insisted and went out and did it. these fish will live a short miserable stressed life in poor water quality, i just dont understand your thinking. you mention people wanting to keep tortoises with snakes because they are incompatible, but neither are your pets, that in my eyes puts you in the same league. rehome the fish either to someone with a suitable tank or buy another tank. when you build your aquatics wonderland you can happily house them in ideal conditions with no threat to their lives and they will be happy and healthy. i just dont understand why anyone would knowlingly inflict stress and the threat of death on a living creature just to say 'i own...' and to make the tank look a bit more interesting. you chose to own turtles, so give them their own tank, if you wanted to have a fishtank, then you should invest in a fishtank. dont mix them.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

LMAO!!!! Ok, i dont believe this....I seriously can not believe you people are backing keeping turtles and fish together, much less Musk and Snappers. I'm done w/ this thread. After the OPs fish die from ammonia poisoning and then get eaten, you guys can all pat yourselves on the backs and rub each other bottoms for all I care.

You can shoot someone and get rid of the body and the gun and get away with it........


.......but does that mean you SHOULD do it? just cuz you CAN??? I rest my case.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> not again, wow, why to people keep trying this. its one thing keeping livebarers in with other fish to create a live food source, or even as a live food source, but most fish/animals they are kept with thankfully can finish them off in one bite so the death is fast. you have put in danios-fair enough small fish, and angelfish, well if/when they get big, they will slow down with their long fins, they are going to die an extreme and stressful death im sure. this doesnt even bring in the poor water quality these fish will be subjected to before they become dinner.
> 
> what size is this tank by the way, you did research your new fish right??? 2 sharks-1 tank :bash: highly territorial, 1 per tank, min tank size 4 ft due to size of territory. the under dog of these 2 will no doubt be constantly chased and harrassed when they grow, and no doubt those lovely innocent turtles will be there to catch and kill the poor fish when its chased from the safe parts of the tank.
> 
> i feel given you have actually been asking around, that you are a highly irresponsible person. you have been told, time and again, dont do it its not fair on the fish, yet you still insisted and went out and did it. these fish will live a short miserable stressed life in poor water quality, i just dont understand your thinking. you mention people wanting to keep tortoises with snakes because they are incompatible, but neither are your pets, that in my eyes puts you in the same league. rehome the fish either to someone with a suitable tank or buy another tank. when you build your aquatics wonderland you can happily house them in ideal conditions with no threat to their lives and they will be happy and healthy. i just dont understand why anyone would knowlingly inflict stress and the threat of death on a living creature just to say 'i own...' and to make the tank look a bit more interesting. you chose to own turtles, so give them their own tank, if you wanted to have a fishtank, then you should invest in a fishtank. dont mix them.




^^^^^^^ THIS. What she said.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Victor Creed said:


> I'm done w/ this thread.


Thank god for that.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Turtle Jo said:


> Thank god for that.



YOU are one of the main people that are the very CAUSE of people thinking they can do this type of stuff, so I'd keep my trap SHUT if I were you.
What next? You gonna house a Pitbull and a Savannah Cat in a 4 foot cage cuz they will FIT?


Or would you do it cuz they will FIGHT?


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Victor Creed said:


> YOU are one of the main people that are the very CAUSE of people thinking they can do this type of stuff, so I'd keep my trap SHUT if I were you.
> What next? You gonna house a Pitbull and a Savannah Cat in a 4 foot cage cuz they will FIT?


Don't make this personal. You know nothing about me.. my set ups, my fish or my turtles. Until you do, keep your comments to yourself.

If you had read the article I wrote recently for a reptile mag, you will know that I do NOT advocate keeping fish with turtles in general.


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> YOU are one of the main people that are the very CAUSE of people thinking they can do this type of stuff, so I'd keep my trap SHUT if I were you.
> What next? You gonna house a Pitbull and a Savannah Cat in a 4 foot cage cuz they will FIT?
> 
> 
> Or would you do it cuz they will FIGHT?



Dude, you really are an angry person aren't you. I haven't seen you give any constructive advice on any post I have read of your all you do is shout and tell people they are wrong. Lighten up.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

BumNum said:


> Dude, you really are an angry person aren't you. I haven't seen you give any constructive advice on any post I have read of your all you do is shout and tell people they are wrong. Lighten up.



Sorry, I love animals and I DON'T like people, especially stubborn, ignorant, ones with no common sense who are unwilling to listen to facts. I don't like seeing animals suffer and die because of those very same people believing they can achieve the impossible. I'm sure if the animals themselves could talk they would tell everyone how much they love me and appreciate how I stick up for them.

As if the way we have totally destoyed this planet in it's natural form wasn't enough, people want to take it to the next level and do it in captivity. You want to see some of my constructive and useful advice? Here's some that went totally IGNORED and fish had to die because of it:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/7458546-post5.html


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> Sorry, I love animals and I DON'T like people, especially stubborn, ignorant, ones with no common sense who are unwilling to listen to facts. I don't like seeing animals suffer and die because of those very same people believing they can achieve the impossible. I'm sure if the animals themselves could talk they would tell everyone how much they love me and appreciate how I stick up for them.
> 
> As if the way we have totally destoyed this planet in it's natural form wasn't enough, people want to take it to the next level and do it in captivity. You want to see some of my constructive and useful advice?


I agree with with most of what you are saying, just not the way you are saying it. 
The fact does remain though that turtles and fish can an do cohabit with no issues. you just have to choose carefully.
Last year I had some elodea delivered threw that in with some of my razor back musks. A few days later i noticed a tiny fish in the water with them, must have been an egg on the plants. this didnt get eaten in fact it grow so large and fast that it went to live outside in the pond with the river cooters until it got to large for that and was re-homed.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

BumNum said:


> I agree with with most of what you are saying, just not the way you are saying it.
> The fact does remain though that turtles and fish can an do cohabit with no issues. you just have to choose carefully.
> Last year I had some elodea delivered threw that in with some of my razor back musks. A few days later i noticed a tiny fish in the water with them, must have been an egg on the plants. this didnt get eaten in fact it grow so large and fast that it went to live outside in the pond with the river cooters until it got to large for that and was re-homed.



I mean that's cool and all, but we're talking a low-percentage of success, man. What kind of fish was it? Personally, and I'm going off the OP....an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey in a tank w/ Musk Turtles is risk FAR too high to chance. Not only is it a stunningly beautiful fish, but it's also rather expensive. You might be able to DO it, but at what risk? Surely it's not the KEEPER who suffers more, regardless of $$, which is trivial to how much the fish would suffer. It may BE workable, but it shouldn't be done just because the chances are so great of something bad happening and being eaten isn't even the worst. Dying from ammonia poisoning is probably much slower and more painful. The only thing keeping the turtles from making your prized fish a meal is whether it "feels" like it or if it can catch them.....and then you have the others outside of ingestion....

My point is, it's just not a very good idea.....mixing species in general is a bad idea unless it's nothing but fish, or nothing but (insert animal)


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Victor Creed said:


> I mean that's cool and all, but we're talking a low-percentage of success, man. What kind of fish was it? Personally, and I'm going off the OP....an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey in a tank w/ Musk Turtles is risk FAR too high to chance. Not only is it a stunningly beautiful fish, but it's also rather expensive. You might be able to DO it, but at what risk? Surely it's not the KEEPER who suffers more, regardless of $$, which is trivial to how much the fish would suffer. It may BE workable, but it shouldn't be done just because the chances are so great of something bad happening and being eaten isn't even the worst. Dying from ammonia poisoning is probably much slower and more painful. The only thing keeping the turtles from making your prized fish a meal is whether it "feels" like it or if it can catch them.....and then you have the others outside of ingestion....
> 
> My point is, it's just not a very good idea.....mixing species in general is a bad idea unless it's nothing but fish, or nothing but (insert animal)


If you'd given me chance to explain myself rather than jumping down my throat, we could have had a very sensible conversation. As Bumnum said - I agree with most of what you are saying... just not how you are saying it.

I wouldn't put ANY animal at risk. And as I previously said, in a recent article I wrote for a UK mag, I did not advocate keeping fish with turtles (or any other species, mollusc, crustacean etc) as they are likely to end up as food.

However, with knowledge of fish species and turtle species, it can sometimes be achieved (size of enclosure and filtration/water quality also has to be a important factor), however, it is complex and can be a fine balancing act, which is why I generally support NOT keeping fish with turtles as it's just too complex an area to explain.

I appreciate you have a greater knowledge of fish... I have a greater knowledge of turtles... BUT I do research any fish species I keep (as I do with any animal). 

Out of the 28 species of turtle I keep, I have some species I would not ever consider housing any species of fish with unless they were purpose bought feeder fish. I have some that I can, and have done (and not feeder fish).... I have bought feeder fish that have lasted so long they have become pets in their own right and now have tanks of their own (with no turtles)

I objected to the way you attached the OP and assumed everyone esle would jump on your bandwagon... that is why I posted. 

I also object to the comment you aimed at me saying that I am to blame for people wanting to keep fish and turtles together. You will not find anywhere on this forum, or any other forum, anywhere where I have stated that it is a good idea.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Turtle Jo said:


> Count me out. I have kept turtles and fish together. Have done for many years.
> 
> And musk turtles and snappers are by NO means the worst offenders when it comes to turtle species co-habiting with fish :whistling2:


Fair enough, I can respect that last post from you, but this was indeed misleading^^^^^^


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Hi all, I'm new here! After being a guest reader for a few months and getting some really useful tips from you all (thanks =] ) I decided i'd sign up!
> I'm new(ish) to the reptile world, I've started sensibly with 4 baby musk turtles but i've well and truely got the bug and i'm currently designing my own custom aquatic wonderland! (Outhouse full of turtles)
> 
> The main problem I have is....
> ...


Why the hell are you experimenting on adding new fish to see which ones they will chase, the turtles have already shown a sign of them wanting to eat the fish and to be honest you dont watch the tank 24 hours a day 7 days a week, you not know half the stuff that is happening in the tank, while you was out they could of been chasing the black Angel fish for all you know.

Id stop NOW to save your money and to stop this cruelty to the fish.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Victor Creed said:


> Fair enough, I can respect that last post from you, but this was indeed misleading^^^^^^


Not really, I was just saying that in my experience there are much worse species of turtle out there in terms of predation of fish.

Musks and snappers are generally bottom dwellers, neither are particularly fast swimmers and more often than not will not persue fish, but choose to take the sick or dying. Snappers in particular are more ambush predators and will take fish in close proximity, but rarely persue them.

Having said this, I would not keep fish with a snapper.

I have turtle species that are swift enough to catch the fastest of fish and will actively hunt/persue fish... and even hunt in packs to corner prey.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

So many of these threads,ill say what i always do: I keep pythons in a large enclosure,if i put small fast rodents in there,some may survive for a while-is this acceptable to people? I doubt it,so why the hell do some of you have such little regard for fish? The OP deserves some of the responses-especially after stating they were advised against it on numerous occassions.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Back on topic i wouldnt mix them i dont see the point in doing so, how big is the tank for one thing? Danios should be fine as they are fast but angelfish are slow moving and have long fins, they are asking to get bitten. What species are the sharks as i can see them fighting amongst eachother.

Also your going to need to filter the water very well due to the ammonia that the turtles will be putting into the water.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Berber King said:


> So many of these threads,ill say what i always do: I keep pythons in a large enclosure,if i put small fast rodents in there,some may survive for a while-is this acceptable to people? I doubt it,so why the hell do some of you have such little regard for fish? The OP deserves some of the responses-especially after stating they were advised against it on numerous occassions.


:thumb: well said


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Firstly thanks for the genuine advice from people who actually know what they are talking about.

Victor, I would never and have never willing put any animal in danger, I proved this by removing the light coloured Angel as soon as I saw a problem! 

I know once the turtles mature they will probably go for the fish but they are tiny at the minute and don't even pay them any notice, I even witnessed the red tails cleaning the turtles this morning.

I get my water tested fully every week, so far no problems. My tank is 3ftx2ftx2ft and I have a Fluval3 filter which I clean once a week. 

Once the turtles get bigger and if the start in fighting or actively hunting the fish I will separate them.

The Blue JD is a lovely fish and asked for any advice on putting it in? It's bigger than the turts at present so I'm more worried about it harming them!


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Firstly thanks for the genuine advice from people who actually know what they are talking about.
> 
> Victor, I would never and have never willing put any animal in danger, I proved this by removing the light coloured Angel as soon as I saw a problem!
> 
> ...


 Id go for an External as an internal is too small for that tank and the fluval internals arent all that good tbh.

Ive kept electric blue JD before, found it to be very mellow but they arent the hardiest fish and need good water quality.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

I'd add an external filter as your internal isnt big enough and fluval internals arent that good imo. Ive kept Electric Blue JD before, found it to be very mellow, but they do need good water quality and aren't that hardy.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Shredder said:


> Firstly thanks for the genuine advice from people who actually know what they are talking about.
> 
> Victor, I would never and have never willing put any animal in danger, I proved this by removing the light coloured Angel as soon as I saw a problem!
> 
> ...


One comment from me. The turtles are a temperate species. The fish are a tropical species. You cannot compromise on water temperatures for either.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

3x2x2, 2 red tailed sharks  they need territory, you need to return one to the shop. you shouldnt have even been sold more than 1 for a tank. when they grow a little, they are going to fight. 1 will be bullied and lead a crappy life. choose which one you like the most, and return the other to the shop so it stands a chance of a better life in an appropriate aquarium. you say you wont willingly put animals in danger, but to me saying this when you know what is likely to happen in the future with the inhabitants of this tank, is just words,means nothing. i dont understand why anyone would even risk their pets lives just incase they drop lucky and make it work :censor:


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Shredder said:


> Firstly thanks for the genuine advice from people who actually know what they are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> I get my water tested fully every week, so far no problems. My tank is 3ftx2ftx2ft and I have a Fluval3 filter which I clean once a week.





CPT BJ said:


> Id go for an External as an internal is too small for that tank and the fluval internals arent all that good tbh.
> 
> .


Hi Shredder, I think that all of the people who have posted on here know what they are talking about. As Ive said before I agree with most of what Victor has said. although I personally think is could have been siad in a less aggressive way.

CPT BJ is also correct, the fluval3 you have is no where near up for the job. Turtles put out a lot more waste than fish and you really need much better bio filtration than an internal can provide. I would go for something that is at least a 1000LPH for your tank


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

CPT BJ said:


> I'd add an external filter as your internal isnt big enough and fluval internals arent that good imo. Ive kept Electric Blue JD before, found it to be very mellow, but they do need good water quality and aren't that hardy.


Thanks, what sort of external filter would you recommend? I'm definitely going to get a Blue JD at some point, although I think I'll wait until I have my additional tanks set up, I'm quite keen on Cichlids in general but understand they're not the best community fish, although I have read a fair bit on the Blue JD's being more placid as they are always fully captive bred.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I've already commented on your post in the Shelled section, but one thing you didn't mention there was the tank size, just wondering how much water you have in a 2' deep tank?

It's normal to keep hatchling Musks in quite shallow water as they're not the greatest swimmers and can easily drown, 4" or 5" at most is the usual recommendation, which would clearly be insufficient for the type and numbers of fish you're contemplating. Just one more negative point to consider.


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## clairethorn (May 2, 2008)

I keep danios (light coloured incidentally) with my musk and razorback musk, the turtles take no notice of them at all.
I'm not saying it's right but in some cases it appears to work out fine. No problems with this kind of set up in 25 years of fishkeeping :2thumb:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

lmao, i saw this thread last night and wondered what i'd wake up to - lets be nice and polite kids; not like that shelled lot :whistling2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:

i'll just come out and say that i'm against keeping fish with turts full stop, i know some people do it successfully but for the majority all i see are turtle tanks with the fish thrown in as a decorative extra with minimal to no research put into their requirements 

but...good luck with it, hope you've not been put off from posting - just got to remember there's some passionate people on here : victory:


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

I've learnt alot from the replies, thanks  my tank is set up with a shallow end with raised platforms for the turts and a deeper bit for the fish, about 14-16 inches deep. Although they pretty much all go wherever they please.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

What happened here:O

My stance irregardless of species of both turts and fish is keep them separate.

Naturally, fish form part of a turts diet, and this has been through millions of years of evolution. A couple of generations worth of cb isn't going to change this. 

Unless the setup is a natural biotope, with more than adequate space for both species then they should be housed alone. Turts don't need fish in their tank to survive, and fish don't need turts in their tank to survive.

IMO there's no need to cohabit fish and turts. If you have algae issues then look at the lighting and water quality... don't just go out and buy a plec to deal with it in a hope that he won't get eaten. If there's not much activity in the tank then don't rush out and buy some fish to add to the tank in the hope that they'll evade the turts and fill some space.

You have just as much responsibility towards the care and welfare of the fish as you do the turts. As Graham said hatchling musks require shallow water... angels need tall aquariums so you can't be meeting the needs of both species!


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Thanks, what sort of external filter would you recommend? I'm definitely going to get a Blue JD at some point, although I think I'll wait until I have my additional tanks set up, I'm quite keen on Cichlids in general but understand they're not the best community fish, although I have read a fair bit on the Blue JD's being more placid as they are always fully captive bred.


 I highly Reccomend the Fluval FX5 and i used to run 5 of them, or you could go for one of the eheim range.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Eheims are very good - depending on the tank size (see my post over in Shelled) there is the 2213, 2215 or 2217, all external cannister filters. We've got a total of 3, all very reliable and spares are easily available. Zooplus seem to be the cheapest online with money off your first order and (usually) free p&p. We use Alfagrog which you can buy in a koi fish shop/garden centre-like place.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> Eheims are very good - depending on the tank size (see my post over in Shelled) there is the 2212, 2215 or 2217, all external cannister filters. We've got a total of 3, all very reliable and spares are easily available. Zooplus seem to be the cheapest online with money off your first order and (usually) free p&p. We use Alfagrog which you can buy in a koi fish shop/garden centre-like place.


 Ive used the eheim classic 2212 before i think (cant remember model lol) was a good canister and like already said easy to get spare parts and have good guarantee etc...


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

CPT BJ said:


> Ive used the eheim classic 2213 before i think (cant remember model lol) was a good canister and like already said easy to get spare parts and have good guarantee etc...


Altered the above as should say 2213!


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> Altered the above as should say 2213!


 Thanks!


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> Dude, hes not keeping GUPPIES. He's got Angelfish and he's about to put a beautiful $40-$80 Electric Blue Jack Dempsey in with a group of highly carnivorous turtles and he expects it NOT to get eaten. The fact that he asked pet stores for advice REPEATEDLY and ignored them already makes me angry.
> 
> There are already 50+ threads for this topic including the one that was located DIRECTLY BENEATH his thread. "Search Function" is a user's best friend. People get tired of wasting their breath on people who DON'T LISTEN.


Calm down :Na_Na_Na_Na:don't bite my head off I agree with most of what you have said it's just the was you've said it : victory:




Victor Creed said:


> If you had to repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over .....i think you'd get a little frustrated too.


But you didn't have to even reply to this guy/girl so that is not an excuse to get frustrated with the OP. We all want the same for our animals and people will listen more when you're polite. :grin1:


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

So in summary...

Eventually all my fish will become turtle food.

Two Red Tail sharks won't co-habit once they get big, split them up. (currently 1-1.5 inches long)

Angel's slow down once they get bigger so will need re-housing (Again quite small atm)

Plecs are ok with the turtles? They are huge, twice the size of the turtles.

Danio's may be ok? But again better to re-house them?

Fluval 3 not really good enough.
--------------------------------------------------------------

That everything? 

I better get looking for a second tank sharpish! Anyone in Manchester area selling anything? I will have to get a relatively small one for now though until i've got my Aquatic Wonderland finished! The missus isn't going to be happy :? :whip:


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Shredder said:


> So in summary...
> 
> Eventually all my fish will become turtle food.
> Possibly yes.
> ...





Shredder said:


> That everything?


Nope :lol2: look down there vvv


Turtle Jo said:


> The turtles are a temperate species. The fish are a tropical species. You cannot compromise on water temperatures for either.


 This seems to have been overlooked.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Haha oh yeah! Knew i would of missed something! Although i'm a bit unsure as to what that means exactly? Correct me if i'm wrong but it was my understanding based on various research that Musks require temperatures of between 21-24 C (75-78 F) ( http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/oderatus.html )and the guy in the pet shop said i need 75F for my fish? Surely at 75f that would suit both? Or am i missing something?


I'm trawling eBay as i write this looking for tanks, the sooner the better so i can re-home the Angels, Sharks and Danios. I'm going to leave the Plecs, which are common and are growing rapidly until i get a bigger tank for the turtles. I have 2 (Bee-Bop and Rocksteady) and if they get too large i will take them back to the shop and swap them for smaller ones!


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Haha oh yeah! Knew i would of missed something! Although i'm a bit unsure as to what that means exactly? Correct me if i'm wrong but it was my understanding based on various research that Musks require temperatures of between 21-24 C (75-78 F) and the guy in the pet shop said i need 75F for my fish? Surely at 75f that would suit both? Or am i missing something?
> 
> 
> I'm trawling eBay as i write this looking for tanks, the sooner the better so i can re-home the Angels, Sharks and Danios. I'm going to leave the Plecs, which are common and are growing rapidly until i get a bigger tank for the turtles. I have 2 (Bee-Bop and Rocksteady) and if they get too large i will take them back to the shop and swap them for smaller ones!


 You could rehome everything bar the turtles and danios and you should be ok, as danios can live in cooler waters.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

As long as they are not tiny hatchlings, water temps for the musk should be 71-74 degrees and you don't need a heater. 75 degrees should be ok


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Based on what i have learnt from the various comments in this thread, here is where not to go for research on keeping Turtles with Fish

Have You Ever Thought About Putting a Fish in Your Turtle Tank?


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Turtle Jo said:


> As long as they are not tiny hatchlings, water temps for the musk should be 71-74 degrees and you don't need a heater. 75 degrees should be ok


How tiny is tiny? The smallest one (Mikey) is about the size of a 50p.

Also the room they're in at the minute has no door and no radiator as i'm in the midst of renovating so would the not needing a heater still apply as the house will get quite cold in the night?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Shredder said:


> How tiny is tiny? The smallest one (Mikey) is about the size of a 50p.
> 
> Also the room they're in at the minute has no door and no radiator as i'm in the midst of renovating so would the not needing a heater still apply as the house will get quite cold in the night?


 Id still keep a heater in there and just set it around 22c.


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## RORCOV (Jul 19, 2005)

Shredder said:


> How tiny is tiny? The smallest one (Mikey) is about the size of a 50p.
> 
> Also the room they're in at the minute has no door and no radiator as i'm in the midst of renovating so would the not needing a heater still apply as the house will get quite cold in the night?


Given their size and that you have no heating in the room they are, leave the heater in


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

i may be collecting a tank over the weekend that comes with 30-40 fish, how is best to transport them? Obviously bagged and boxed in small groups but how will i get them into the new tank? I'll have to set it up etc and re-fill it? Is it worth buying lots of RO water rather than using Tap water and Aquasafe? 
Or move my turts into a temporary tank for the day, put the new fish in with my current ones and let it all settle before i swap them around?


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## fangsy (Sep 17, 2007)

I keep Turts and fish together , they seem happy enough


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Shredder said:


> i may be collecting a tank over the weekend that comes with 30-40 fish, how is best to transport them? Obviously bagged and boxed in small groups but how will i get them into the new tank? I'll have to set it up etc and re-fill it? Is it worth buying lots of RO water rather than using Tap water and Aquasafe?
> Or move my turts into a temporary tank for the day, put the new fish in with my current ones and let it all settle before i swap them around?


Bag them by species, and if aggressive/large then separately. Keep as much water as you can, then when you set it all up any new water that you add will be like a big water change. Don't bother with RO water. Be sure to bag the filter media as you would the fish, and place all the fish and filer media in a polybox if the journey is likely to take long.

What size is the new tank?


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

hippyhaplos said:


> Bag them by species, and if aggressive/large then separately. Keep as much water as you can, then when you set it all up any new water that you add will be like a big water change. Don't bother with RO water. Be sure to bag the filter media as you would the fish, and place all the fish and filer media in a polybox if the journey is likely to take long.
> 
> What size is the new tank?


New tank is a similar size to the one i have now, about 3ft. I've seen pics of the fish now and they are mostly guppies by the looks of it! Although i'm no expert and could well be wrong haha. 
Journey is about an hour, i've got a lockable box so that should do it, doesn't seem to be any aggressive fish in there!
What is a filter media?!? The bit inside what can be changed/cleaned out??:hmm:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Shredder said:


> New tank is a similar size to the one i have now, about 3ft. I've seen pics of the fish now and they are mostly guppies by the looks of it! Although i'm no expert and could well be wrong haha.
> Journey is about an hour, i've got a lockable box so that should do it, doesn't seem to be any aggressive fish in there!
> What is a filter media?!? The bit inside what can be changed/cleaned out??:hmm:


Keep all the fish separate just now... you don't know if the stock is clean or not.

Is the lockable box insulated? I personally would keep them in an insulated box for a journey of that length- doesn't take much for temps to dip, especially in this weather.

Yeah the media is what's inside the filter- treat it like fish!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

if you dont have a poly box (a lot of aquatics places have them and some let you take one if you need one) you could always use a picnic cool box, they are stronger than the poly boxes too. i agree with keeping the fish separate until you know they are disease free, and just treat the tap water as if its a large water change, use warm water too to up the temp if need be, and put them all back in.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Shredder said:


> What is a filter media?!? The bit inside what can be changed/cleaned out??:hmm:



Wow..........


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## Arizahn (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey. I just joined here and I know nothing about turtles, however I can tell you that guppies and angels need totally different water parameters... I would recommend that you research each type of fish and draw up a spreadsheet of what they need. Include the following as fields:
Water chemistry (hardness, pH, etc)
Water temperature
Size of fish and space/volume of water needed
Food, substrate, etc

Also, you might want to invest in a good book on fish keeping.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Arizahn said:


> Hey. I just joined here and I know nothing about turtles, however I can tell you that guppies and angels need totally different water parameters... I would recommend that you research each type of fish and draw up a spreadsheet of what they need. Include the following as fields:
> Water chemistry (hardness, pH, etc)
> Water temperature
> Size of fish and space/volume of water needed
> ...


Thanks for that, i figured that i need allsorts of temps etc, i'm going to get a book tomorrow too, and i have 2 additional tanks now. My missus isn't happy at all. lol


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Shredder said:


> re!
> What is a filter media?!? The bit inside what can be changed/cleaned out??:hmm:


Yes it is, can in in several forms, from sponge to rocks.


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Wow..........


come on its not like its common knowledge what filter media is. people need to learn these things some where so where better than a forum about fish theres no need to patronise the guy is there


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

tomwilson said:


> come on its not like its common knowledge what filter media is. people need to learn these things some where so where better than a forum about fish theres no need to patronise the guy is there


Cheers mate! I did post a comment myself in response but it seems it was removed? Probably due to me calling Mr Creed a Bell end? meh


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

tomwilson said:


> come on its not like its common knowledge what filter media is. people need to learn these things some where so where better than a forum about fish theres no need to patronise the guy is there



I agree with you 100%......



.....but this is stuff they are supposed to find out when they do their research BEFORE obtaining/acquiring/purchasing an animal. How can you take proper care of an animal if you are not PREpared? Learning by mistakes also costs lives. Learn by others' mistakes instead and be ready prior to keeping the animals. I don't know any fish-keepers who don't know the basic components of a filter, in all honsety.....and that IS common knowledge. All you have to do is read the instructions.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> I agree with you 100%......
> 
> 
> 
> .....but this is stuff they are supposed to find out when they do their research BEFORE obtaining/acquiring/purchasing an animal. How can you take proper care of an animal if you are not PREpared? Learning by mistakes also costs lives. Learn by others' mistakes instead and be ready prior to keeping the animals. I don't know any fish-keepers who don't know the basic components of a filter, in all honsety.....and that IS common knowledge. All you have to do is read the instructions.


 
for the record ive kept many fish with musks, as long as there is adequate space and proper filtration its not a problem.
i dont recommend it, ever, but its possible.
you clearly have no experience with this matter so it amazes me you'd make the effort to come in here and slag yet another member off for asking a question.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Haha that's defo getting deleted! I think you've said what most people are afraid of saying! Glad to know it's not just me who has that opinion!!


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Shredder said:


> Haha that's defo getting deleted! I think you've said what most people are afraid of saying! Glad to know it's not just me who has that opinion!!



ive seen countless comments by him which he clearly thinks are "helpful" when actually they are not at all.
he is arrogant, abusive, and always having a go at people.

id loved to have met him when he was first starting out and given him the shit he gives everyone else.

well, im not afraid of some people who run a website. if they ban me they ban me, but imo Victor Creed should have been warned/banned a long time ago for his constant abuse but nothing happened.

if i do get banned or told off then this website is pathetic. one rule for one etc.
yeah ok, i used some naughty words but im sorry, until the mods here sort this idiot out im not going to refrain from saying what i think.
victor creed never does.


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> ii used some naughty words but im sorry, until the mods here sort this idiot out im not going to refrain from saying what i think.
> victor creed never does.


but why lower yourself to his standard?
there is no need for swearing when there is a ":censor:" on a public forum that children can read.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

BumNum said:


> but why lower yourself to his standard?
> there is no need for swearing when there is a ":censor:" on a public forum that children can read.



one reason is to see if i do get banned. cos if i do then i wont be coming back ever.
its people like him that make it bad for all the others yet nothing is ever done about it.

i could go back and edit my post, but i shouldnt have to.

plus, im sorry, but im not up with all these little picture buttons you lot use lol

at the end of the day this site is for people to come to for advice and help. not to be slated and slagged off by idiots like him.

i still cant believe that no-one has actually given him warnings or said something to him. 
he isnt a useful member here, how can he be if he never gives good ansers?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

although i find the way he words his replies to be somewhat mean, i feel he is just very passionate about how these creatures are housed. i can and do feel the same, but try to refrain from being so abrupt about it. sometimes it seeps through a little but it is extremely frustrating when people are told something, sometimes by many different sources, and yet they still insist on trying it even if it turns out to be detrimental to the animals health and well being.

the way i see it is if there is any possible risk to any of the animals in question, why risk it. if you love the pet, and want it to remain happy and healthy, you will house them in the best standards you can or you shouldnt get that pet. i dont understand why people insist on trying to mix pets or house them in substandard conditions, it makes me wonder if they would house a horse in their back garden, or a rabbit in a mouse cage, it may work for a brief time but its not in the pets best interests which is obvious, so normal caring people wont even try it. fish are :censor: on when it comes to people seeing cruelty.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Pearson Design said:


> its people like him that make it bad for all the others yet nothing is ever done about it.
> 
> mods do plenty about it, so long as you report any posts you find inappropriate...they can't do something if they don't know about it - plus
> they can't openly say "x has been given an infraction etc." so how do you know he hasn't been warned already?
> ...


 in red : victory:


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Pearson Design said:


> ive actually had enough of you now.
> 
> oh, and for the record ive kept many fish with musks, as long as there is adequate space and proper filtration its not a problem.
> i dont recommend it, ever, but its possible.
> you clearly have no experience with this matter so it amazes me you'd make the effort to come in here and slag yet another member off for asking a question.


 
I could not agree more,he is a complete tool with no regard for anyones opinion.Mods,please sort this guy,im not posting in this section anymore or i will end up banned replying to this guy


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

i have to agree i have seen at least one helpful post by him, or i wouldnt be fair on him.
but, the majority are just attacks on people, with no sign of actually trying to help out.

im past caring now, ive been warned before for getting involved with his threads, but im not bothered what happens now.

there are plenty of other forums on the internet that are full of helpful people (like the majority are here too) but no sign of idiots like him.

this is a place for help not abuse or criticism.

if someone is doing something you think is wrong then its not hard to write a polite response with helpful opinions


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> in red : victory:



he may have been warned before, but if he has it hasnt made any difference obviously.

if it had been me or you writing abuse and slagging people off im sure we would have heard from the mods or hopefully learnt our lesson.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> although i find the way he words his replies to be somewhat mean, i feel he is just very passionate about how these creatures are housed. i can and do feel the same, but try to refrain from being so abrupt about it. sometimes it seeps through a little but it is extremely frustrating when people are told something, sometimes by many different sources, and yet they still insist on trying it even if it turns out to be detrimental to the animals health and well being.
> 
> the way i see it is if there is any possible risk to any of the animals in question, why risk it. if you love the pet, and want it to remain happy and healthy, you will house them in the best standards you can or you shouldnt get that pet. i dont understand why people insist on trying to mix pets or house them in substandard conditions, it makes me wonder if they would house a horse in their back garden, or a rabbit in a mouse cage, it may work for a brief time but its not in the pets best interests which is obvious, so normal caring people wont even try it. fish are :censor: on when it comes to people seeing cruelty.



if he had simply written something like you just did, then i doubt there would be a problem. but instead he has to come out with an attack and abuse with no real helpful info at all.

it doesnt matter anyways, some people just dont have it in them to be civil and polite


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> if he had simply written something like you just did, then i doubt there would be a problem. but instead he has to come out with an attack and abuse with no real helpful info at all.
> 
> it doesnt matter anyways, some people just dont have it in them to be civil and polite


I'm behind you btw. Whist I don't know enough about keeping fish to comment on the advise he gives I have already commented on how I don't like the way he gives it. As you will see on the first two pages of this thread. However there is still no need to lower yourself and your own standards.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I think people need to stop crying, actually. We're all adults, so why do so many people get over-sensitive about the way someone you don't know talks to you over the internet? This isn't kindergarten people, the internet never has mattered and never will....and if you think I take anything personal that anyone on ANY forum says to me, you're very wrong.

In lieu of Goldie's post which is right on target, yes it really is frustrating.

And finally, since so many people wanna act like goodie-2-shoes right now.....why are you attacking me for being amazed that a person bought fish and turtle set-ups they clearly had known nothing about before they bought them, including simple basic stuff like "knowing what parts of your filter are which and how to maintenance it"

I think some people need to get the sand out and take a step back and check you priorities. This is a website to help animals, not teach each other how to be kind and concerned for your delicate little feelings.


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Victor it has nothing to do with hurting peoples feeling. It's tondo with educating people in a way that they will listen to you. The more you shout and belittle people the less likely they are to listen to what you are saying.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

BumNum said:


> Victor it has nothing to do with hurting peoples feeling. It's tondo with educating people in a way that they will listen to you. The more you shout and belittle people the less likely they are to listen to what you are saying.


I dig what ur saying, but it's not usually the 1st thing on my mind when animals' lives are at stake, Bro. I don't see how you can think of someone else's feelings when they are hurting the animals'. I also think the way I come-off to people is kinda like my personal patent-pending "Urgent" message meaning "You really need to listen to the message and not the messenger" because we all know people are not so kind in person.......and the people who are, are also typically the type to go and talk behind your back after being nice and smiling to your face. That's just how the world is, Bro. I'm sorry you take offense to it. but some of these people who don't listen to advice the 1st 100 times just need a swift kick in the *ss to get them thinking.

In actuallity, most of you guys should be praising me for my effective yet unorthodoxed methods.  :lol2:


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## chulainn (Nov 29, 2009)

i would highly advise not to mix but if you do it can be done with great filtration make sure the fisk are atleast half the size as the turtles but really for the sake of both animals keep them in seprate tanks(you said you wanted lots of tank) because the risks of ammonia poisoning then the turtles eating the poisoned fish its not really worth it .

good luck chulainn


please noarguing hes asking for help and you argue jeez


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> We're all adults


Actually many members of RFUK are not adults, something everyone needs to bear in mind outside of 18+. In there you can say pretty much what you want, but anywhere else on the forum you should assume that what you are saying will be read by kids, and moderate your language and attitude accordingly.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Graham said:


> Actually many members of RFUK are not adults, something everyone needs to bear in mind outside of 18+. In there you can say pretty much what you want, but anywhere else on the forum you should assume that what you are saying will be read by kids, and moderate your language and attitude accordingly.



I most definitely do that, but the problem people have w/ me is my attitude and the way a come-off to people, but IMO, I don't feel my attitude is worse than people who ask and ask for advice and never take it because it's not the answer they wanted, or people who do stuff most people recommend against doing, much less other people always concerned everyone except themselves. I'm just raw and real and a very up-front, no BS type of person....IRL and anywhere I go.

All these people in the World w/ many problems of their own and they ain't got nothing better to do than worry about the next man? C'mon people, fix your own problems before you try fixing other people. Pointing the finger at others seems gratifying for a brief period only cuz it takes the focus off yourselves.......but when you put your hand back in your pocket, the focus shifts right back to you again.

Let's worry more about animals that my attitude. This ain't no psychology-forum, people. And yes, you should SEE how I react to people who ask my advice repeatedly and don't take it in person. You'd think I was a SAINT here on the forums. You people simply don't understand my passion for this hobby and to do it right. 

If was using bad language it must have slipped my mind, but I DO try not to for the most part. So for that I WILL apologize. Sorry, im not trying to argue w/ you, Graham.....I just wasnt aware that you were a Moderator until I finished posting.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

TBH me being a Mod is irrelevant, I'm only a Section Mod and this isn't my section! 

The Forum has rules about swearing though, it also has rules about being respectful, non-confrontational, and polite, all of which would appear to have been broken in this thread, not all of them neccessarily by you or by any other individual, I'm not singling anyone out.


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> for the record ive kept many fish with musks, as long as there is adequate space and proper filtration its not a problem.
> i dont recommend it, ever, but its possible.
> you clearly have no experience with this matter so it amazes me you'd make the effort to come in here and slag yet another member off for asking a question.


Thank you, finally somebody who also thinks what I thought.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> one reason is to see if i do get banned. cos if i do then i wont be coming back ever.
> its people like him that make it bad for all the others yet nothing is ever done about it.
> 
> i could go back and edit my post, but i shouldnt have to.
> ...



I most certainly have kept Turtles w/ other species, particularly Florida Cooters (Penninsula sub-species) with fish and African-clawed Frogs and the result was that it was nota good idea. Despite the turtles being herbivorous, their claws alone caused damage to the fish and frogs. Now just imagine doing the same thing w/ CARNIVOUROUS turtles  The ammonia and nitrate levels never became a problem cuz i had enough common sense to separate them early on before any more damage was done.

When I speak it is strictly from experience. If I don't know what I am talking about, I keep my trap shut.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> I dig what ur saying, but it's not usually the 1st thing on my mind when animals' lives are at stake, Bro. I don't see how you can think of someone else's feelings when they are hurting the animals'. I also think the way I come-off to people is kinda like my personal patent-pending "Urgent" message meaning *"You really need to listen to the message and not the messenger"* because we all know people are not so kind in person.......and the people who are, are also typically the type to go and talk behind your back after being nice and smiling to your face. That's just how the world is, Bro. I'm sorry you take offense to it. but some of these people who don't listen to advice the 1st 100 times just need a swift kick in the *ss to get them thinking.


 unfortunately people don't tend to digest what's being said to them in such a manner, they just see someone shouting at them so shout back louder or stick their fingers in their ears - or both! :lol2:




brysaa2 said:


> Thank you, finally somebody who also thinks what I thought.


 i didn't see your earlier posts? :hmm:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> unfortunately people don't tend to digest what's being said to them in such a manner, they just see someone shouting at them so shout back louder or stick their fingers in their ears - or both! :lol2:
> 
> LMAO!!!
> 
> ...



Uhm, yea...well he was one of the other ones who made thread asking for advice and never took it and had a problem w/ they way I "typed" to him. I would advise you to read his thread, but it will probably only make you angry when you realize his sheer stubbornness. I linked the OP of this thread to it on the 1st page in this thread, so feel free to check it out for some LOL's.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

As is started this mess..

I have listened to every single bit o advice, I now have 3 tanks set up and have seperated species accordingly.

I know how to use and clean my filter, just wasn't aware of the terminology.

Victor, you are arrogant, rude and a prime example of someone who likes to control or force someone o do as they say. You're American, you've either been driven out of all of their forums for being a complete tool or possibly the entire country? 

Most people here have a problem with your tone and how you come across, nobody has picked out anything you said as incorrect, just rude.

I wish you'd shit in your hands and clap.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

ooooh i got an infraction...
how fun


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Shredder said:


> As is started this mess..
> 
> I have listened to every single bit o advice, I now have 3 tanks set up and have seperated species accordingly.
> 
> ...


that's great man, im happy for you. Just a bit of advice, you shouldn't curse and use vulgarity after a Mod has made a confrontation about it. This isn't a forum for judging people's online personality based on opinion, its a forum for finding facts about keeping animals happy, healthy and properly.


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> I'm sorry you take offense to it.


I dont personally take offense to it, as you say, its the internet. However I dont personally think its the best way to help people. 




Victor Creed said:


> In actuallity, most of you guys should be praising me for my effective yet unorthodoxed methods.  :lol2:


if your methods are so effective, they why do you have to tell people again and again and again and again, (as you put it in one thread). Surely if your method were effective you would only have to say it once.



daftlassieEmma said:


> unfortunately people don't tend to digest what's being said to them in such a manner, they just see someone shouting at them so shout back louder or stick their fingers in their ears - or both! :lol2: :hmm:


:no1: Spot on.


Anyho. Back to the OP and on topic..
Im glad that you have sorted out the housing issue and hope that all the animals thrive under you care. but, where are the PICs?


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

I've hundreds on my iPhone but haven't sync'd it for a while! Plus I'm a bit scared they'll be something wrong that I'll get slated for lol


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Shredder said:


> I've hundreds on my iPhone but haven't sync'd it for a while! Plus I'm a bit scared they'll be something wrong that I'll get slated for lol



Post it in the Shelled section and im sure you wont be slated.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

BumNum said:


> Post it in the Shelled section and im sure you wont be slated.


Very true - I think only 3 of us replied over there!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

surely best to post the pics and get the possible issues pointed out than let them go unchecked? sure itl be fine anyway :2thumb:


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> Uhm, yea...well he was one of the other ones who made thread asking for advice and never took it and had a problem w/ they way I "typed" to him. I would advise you to read his thread, but it will probably only make you angry when you realize his sheer stubbornness. I linked the OP of this thread to it on the 1st page in this thread, so feel free to check it out for some LOL's.


Yeah I started the other post lol. No I didn't keep on due to the absolute c**p Victor came out with to help my problem, and saw no way of getting any sense by saying how I felt so I left it. I came for help on an issue, and instead was given a load of judgement and told I was wrong and that I watch FOX too much or some rubbish. Anyhoo, it was less the tone and more that you were answering a different topic and insisting it was me and not you in the wrong. But nothing more needs to be said really as everyone seems to feel the same way so :lol2:

Enjoy wrecking more threads and annoying more people dude


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> one reason is to see if i do get banned. cos if i do then i wont be coming back ever.
> its people like him that make it bad for all the others yet nothing is ever done about it.
> 
> i could go back and edit my post, but i shouldnt have to.
> ...


Right again mate lol. Obviously no US forums allow him, so he wrecks this UK one. I'm amazed he even wants to comment when nobody wants his input, it's like he is commenting for himself only. Certainly doing it to stir everything up, otherwise he'd just leave it.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> Uhm, yea...well he was one of the other ones who made thread asking for advice and never took it and had a problem w/ they way I "typed" to him. I would advise you to read his thread, but it will probably only make you angry when you realize his sheer stubbornness. I linked the OP of this thread to it on the 1st page in this thread, so feel free to check it out for some LOL's.


 just read...


Pearson Design said:


> ooooh i got an infraction...
> how fun


 naughty boy 


BumNum said:


> Post it in the Shelled section and im sure you wont be slated.


 i can't help but feel this quote tears a hole in reality :lol2:


brysaa2 said:


> Anyhoo, it was less the tone and more that* you were answering a different topic and insisting it was me and not you in the wrong*. But nothing more needs to be said really as everyone seems to feel the same way so


i don't wanna set this thread off course again, but there was more than one person pointing out that other "topic" and they were right to do so and only trying to help - now i'll leave it there


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

daftlassieEmma said:


> just read...
> 
> naughty boy
> 
> ...


And I addressed them first, and then attempted to stop the whole thread and leave it there, to avoid this EXACT thing. I wanted help with an ammonia issue, not a full debated discussion on that :lol2: It was upon closing the thread that Victor decided he wouldn't let it be that easy lol. Anyways


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> I most certainly have kept Turtles w/ other species, particularly Florida Cooters (Penninsula sub-species) with fish and African-clawed Frogs and the result was that it was nota good idea. Despite the turtles being herbivorous, their claws alone caused damage to the fish and frogs. Now just imagine doing the same thing w/ CARNIVOUROUS turtles  The ammonia and nitrate levels never became a problem cuz i had enough common sense to separate them early on before any more damage was done.
> 
> When I speak it is strictly from experience. If I don't know what I am talking about, I keep my trap shut.


so you've tried keeping fish with turtles and frogs,


Victor Creed said:


> WHERE do you unskilled and uneducated people come from? I'm going to give you the low-down before the rest of the site gets on your case. Musk Turtles are highly carnivorous and every fish in that tank is going to get eaten eventually. You could NOT have picked a worse species to attempt species-mixing except maybe Snapping Turtles. Why would you go ahead and do it after EVERY pet store advised you not to?? What is the point of asking for advice from professionals if you are going to ignore it? We are currently dealing w/ another fool who believes this type of species-mixing is acceptable....... and now comes along ANOTHER ONE. I swear, you people make me so angry just by EXISTING sometimes, man
> 
> *waits for everyone else to jump in and give the OP hell*


so instead of this you could have just said it is a bad idea and that you have done it yourself and had to learn from your mistakes, but instead you said the RFUK equivilant of fetch your knives and pitch forks. 

and as for not doing research you put them in with frogs who's skin is even more sensitive to toxins than the fish.


----------



## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> just read...
> 
> naughty boy
> 
> ...



LOL! See what I meant about the dude being stubborn and not listening to the facts? This clown STILL thinks I'm wrong and talking rubbish AS I type. Anyway, that's why I talk down on people sometimes....cuz of people like him need to be. I treat people according to their actions and the vibe they give. You don't get more respect than you show me you deserve, basically.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

tomwilson said:


> so you've tried keeping fish with turtles and frogs,
> 
> so instead of this you could have just said it is a bad idea and that you have done it yourself and had to learn from your mistakes, but instead you said the RFUK equivilant of fetch your knives and pitch forks.
> 
> and as for not doing research you put them in with frogs who's skin is even more sensitive to toxins than the fish.




See above post. Let's get back on topic. How many times do I have to tell you people to stop concerning yourselves with me? Worry about YOU. I don't need your help, in fact it seems like several of you need MY help. This is a forum for keeping, raising and breeding animals. Stop wasting time complaining about the "way I rub people".


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

brysaa2 said:


> Right again mate lol. Obviously no US forums allow him, so he wrecks this UK one. I'm amazed he even wants to comment when nobody wants his input, it's like he is commenting for himself only. Certainly doing it to stir everything up, otherwise he'd just leave it.



You are Wrong, as usual.


Wrong again.


Wrong yet another time.


Don't you EVER get tired of being wrong?


You're lucky I wasn't your father, boy. That hint of arrogance and snobbishness would have been removed from you w/ a quickness. Have you noticed yet that I don't talk down to everyone like I talked down to you and Shredder? It's because they don't do the stupid thing you guys are doing and then refuse to take peoples' input/advice. Stop pointing the finger at me, wipe your tears and learn to grow-up and take accountability for your actions. YOU created your OWN problem for yourself, now since you made it public, you need to deal w/ it accordingly.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

tomwilson said:


> so you've tried keeping fish with turtles and frogs,
> 
> 
> and as for not doing research you put them in with frogs who's skin is even more sensitive to toxins than the fish.


Also, this was more then 10 years ago and it was for about 24 hours. Are you gonna criticize me for for making a mistake that I learned from or encourage others to learn from my mistakes instead? Be constructive instead of confrontational, otherwise you're preaching to the choir. Note the reason I stated this was to PROVE that I DID have experience on the matter and I DO know what I am talking about. You just wasted a perfectly good post on someone who did it a DECADE ago instead of directing it at the people who are doing it CURRENTLY. Also, this last post of yours really makes me question your intelligence and better judgment, as well as seeing you showing biased favoritism.

I knew I was wrong after the 24 hours, but since you just said it, I think I'll make it a point to travel back in time to the year 1999 and separate them a second time. Wth is wrong w/ you man?


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

oh my god
victor, do yourself a favour and grow up.

no one here needs your help, at all.
especially as you dont offer help, but instead offer criticism and very unhelful posts.

by saying you kept turtles with fish "for 24hrs" youve contradicted yourself.

what was the point in having a rant about it, when youvbe done it yourself.
you were clearly a newbie too, and have just admitted so, so why do you have to be such a dick to everyone else?

were you sted of oxygen for a while as a baby? or did daddy beat you for trying to be outspoken?

either way your a tool and of no help or use to this forum.
no one likes you, no one actually takes anything you say to be serious, so you should just go away.

from all the posts ive seen complaining about you, im surprised you havent got the hint yet.

i think this site needs some new more active and OBSERVANT mods. this thread needed closing days ago, yet its still here and allows victor creed to post his nonsense again.

but it wont happen, cos they all seem to love kissing his ring and letting him ruin this site with crap posts and false information. sounds just like RFUK really


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> oh my god
> victor, do yourself a favour and grow up.
> 
> no one here needs your help, at all.
> ...


You still cryin', Bro?


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> You still cryin', Bro?



lol, im not crying at all.
i just find it amusing how you constantly think your right when you clearly arent.

youve kept fish with turtles have you?
you seem to have kept every type of animal, yet when you respond to peoples questions about them, you answer without any useful info or clearly without any experience or even basic knowledge about it.
all you do is attack

why would i get annoyed by something on the internet?

im simply asking you why you feel its necessary to come on here on a daily basis and belittle and abuse people.

you must be a very sad little boy.

i know youll reply with some stupid answer that has nothing to do with anything, but thats your choice.
if you do reply then you clearly enjoy being a dick. if you dont reply then everyone will be a lot happier


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> lol, im not crying at all.
> i just find it amusing how you constantly think your right when you clearly arent.


 I have yet to see you post correct information thus far. We're looking for facts, no opinions, therefore coming from you that is a totally empty and meaningless statement.



Pearson Design said:


> youve kept fish with turtles have you?


 yes I have. What is your point. I made mine very clear in my last post. I have not kept every animal, but sure have kept alot more than the average person and did alot of learning by experience, which is the exact reason why people should listen when I speak. Is there a particular species I can assist you with? 

If I'm not familiar with a species I'll tell you flat-out, but with the exception of venomous and some large dangerous booids, monitors, crocodilians, and some high-maintenance treefrogs, Amazon tree boas, true Chameleons some exotic mammals and some arachnids and a few Old World arboreal Geckos, it seems to ME (IMO) that alot of the species kept here in general are very noobish and even a keeper w/ just a small amount of experience would know the answers to alot of these questions asked.



Pearson Design said:


> you seem to have kept every type of animal, yet when you respond to peoples questions about them, you answer without any useful info or clearly without any experience or even basic knowledge about it.
> all you do is attack


 If you firmly believe this statement to be true then it is YOU who are the one doing the attacking, because obviously you haven't read. You may be right about 5-10% of my total posts. Try reading the others instead of always focusing around negativity, which you apparently thrive on. If I recall, I had a problem with you before because you just start yapping w/out reading 1st. You still haven't fixed that problem. Why is that, Sir?



Pearson Design said:


> why would i get annoyed by something on the internet?


 I don't know, I was hoping you could tell me since you're the one who has invested so many feelings and heart-felt posts towards another GUY you don't know on the internet. Are you really a female pretending to be a guy? Your sensitivity-levels seem to suggest so.



Pearson Design said:


> im simply asking you why you feel its necessary to come on here on a daily basis and belittle and abuse people.


 like I said, 5-10%....the other 90% are very useful, polite, accurate and correct. Try reading them, the majority are filled w/ facts. All I have ever read in any of your posts are opinions. Im looking at about 9-10 other threads I have recently responded to, yet this is the ONLY one I see YOUR name on. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?



Pearson Design said:


> you must be a very sad little boy.


Not in the least, Sir, but I am angry at the people who constantly insist they are right when they are wrong. I guess it comes with the territory when you prove groups of people wrong repeatedly through a vast knowledge and long-time experience.



Pearson Design said:


> i know youll reply with some stupid answer that has nothing to do with anything, but thats your choice.
> if you do reply then you clearly enjoy being a dick. if you dont reply then everyone will be a lot happier


No reply  Happy?


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> lol, im not crying at all.
> i just find it amusing how you constantly think your right when you clearly arent.
> 
> youve kept fish with turtles have you?
> ...


This. And as Vic-tooor (in Keith Lemon's voice) has shown he can't be an adult and stop posting rubbish, I will not post anymore.

Oh and good job making this thread helpful for everyone looking at turtles with fish :lol2:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

brysaa2 said:


> This. And as Vic-tooor (in Keith Lemon's voice) has shown he can't be an adult and stop posting rubbish, I will not post anymore.
> 
> Oh and good job making this thread helpful for everyone looking at turtles with fish :lol2:



It was already helpful, point made several times.

Summary: Keeping turtles and fish together - don't do it.

Your opinions are useless and moot so keep them to yourself.


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## Arizahn (Jan 21, 2011)

Ironically enough, I found this forum when I googled to see if fish and turtles could be kept together. That search led to this thread, so at least I know that we can't get a turtle as a pet until we can afford to buy another tank. So thanks to everyone for that.
Shredder, I hope you get the hang of the fish keeping. Invest in a big bottle of Stress Zyme to establish your filter, dose every day for the first fortnight and do twice weekly 10% water changes until your tanks water chemistry is stable. Don't forget to add Stress Coat (or similar product) at each water change. Your angelfish wish need soft acidic water, so try adding a piece of well soaked bogwood to their tank.
And remember in future that fish less cycling is better.

Hope everyone has a good day.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

EDIT: double posted by accident.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Arizahn said:


> Ironically enough, I found this forum when I googled to see if fish and turtles could be kept together. That search led to this thread, so at least I know that we can't get a turtle as a pet until we can afford to buy another tank. So thanks to everyone for that.
> Shredder, I hope you get the hang of the fish keeping. Invest in a big bottle of Stress Zyme to establish your filter, dose every day for the first fortnight and do twice weekly 10% water changes until your tanks water chemistry is stable. Don't forget to add Stress Coat (or similar product) at each water change. Your angelfish wish need soft acidic water, so try adding a piece of well soaked bogwood to their tank.
> And remember in future that fish less cycling is better.
> 
> Hope everyone has a good day.


Glad you found it helpful. Thank you for listening to what people are saying in their posts, I'm sure your fish will thank you for it in the long run.




brysaa2 said:


> Oh and good job making this thread helpful for everyone looking at turtles with fish :lol2:



Ironically, I think I've made my point. I wouldn't post either if I was proven wrong as many times in a row as you were.


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## Arizahn (Jan 21, 2011)

My fish don't say thank you. Or please. They just glower at me when they want something. My friends call the livebearers "the Molly Mafia".
All hail our fishy overlords:notworthy:


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

:devil: Victor creed you're one annoying little boy, (even though you're probably 4 times my age):Na_Na_Na_Na: can you stop being so childish already? 

You are not right! nobody has been right, we all have opinions maybe one's more favoured amongst the RFUKers but still it's not "right" there is no right nor wrong answer when it comes to mixing species, it's frowned upon by most reptile keepers. if your first post was said in a polite and helpful way maybe then you would have the support of other RFUK members. 

You don't have the right to talk down to "the noobs" when you've stated that you was once in the same position, we all need to learn! some of us in different ways than others, but we still learn. 

And to get back on topic OP hows the set ups coming along? any pictures?


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Victor Creed said:


> Glad you found it helpful. Thank you for listening to what people are saying in their posts, I'm sure your fish will thank you for it in the long run.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


'proven' :2thumb:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

*michael* said:


> :devil: Victor creed you're one annoying little boy, (even though you're probably 4 times my age):Na_Na_Na_Na: can you stop being so childish already?
> 
> You are not right! nobody has been right, we all have opinions maybe one's more favoured amongst the RFUKers but still it's not "right" there is no right nor wrong answer when it comes to mixing species, it's frowned upon by most reptile keepers. if your first post was said in a polite and helpful way maybe then you would have the support of other RFUK members.


You're Wrong. Opinions mean nothing. Opinion = someone who's wrong desperately attempting to be right about something.



*michael* said:


> You don't have the right to talk down to "the noobs" when you've stated that you was once in the same position, we all need to learn! some of us in different ways than others, but we still learn.


Being in the same position for 24 hours after which I caught my own mistake, fixed my own mistake and never thought about doing something that stupid again doesn't put me in the "stubborn, ignorant" class of people. LOL Besides I was half the OP's ages when I did that.....so that should tell you something about my intelligence level as a mere child, vs. theirs' as adults. Stop directing posts at me. You are going to get shut-down every time.



*michael* said:


> And to get back on topic OP hows the set ups coming along? any pictures?


I doubt it since we FINALLY convinced him not to mix the species after a long grueling and annoying process.


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> You're Wrong. Opinions mean nothing. Opinion = someone who's wrong desperately attempting to be right about something.
> No you're wrong! some people successfully keep turtles and fish together. If mine and some other members opinions are wrong are your opinions wrong? no they are not wrong they are *opinions. *And I do not need to be right I have not tried to be right I do not keep fish and reptiles together but I understand that it can and is done.
> 
> 
> ...


I'll just like to apologies for any spelling mistakes in this post :lol2: it is 01:27 afterall


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

*michael* said:


> I'll just like to apologies for any spelling mistakes in this post :lol2: it is 01:27 afterall



Dude, you can never run out of opinions, they are everywhere, much like disease, poverty and evil. If you want to do things right and in the correct manner, search for FACTS. You stating opinions in the previous post is nothing more than more opinion. What I have just stated is facts. That's part of the reason so many people fail in this hobby and make so many mistakes.....because they are going off of peoples' opinions when they should be utilizing performance based upon facts. People who have successfully kept turtles w/ fish either have a zoo or have what most of us would call "dumb-luck". Nothing more.


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> Dude, you can never run out of opinions, they are everywhere, much like disease, poverty and evil. If you want to do things right and in the correct manner, search for FACTS. You stating opinions in the previous post is nothing more than more opinion. What I have just stated is facts. That's part of the reason so many people fail in this hobby and make so many mistakes.....because they are going off of peoples' opinions when they should be utilizing performance based upon facts. People who have successfully kept turtles w/ fish either have a zoo or have what most of us would call "dumb-luck". Nothing more.


I'll now fight my side of this battle the way you have been doing.

"It's fact that you can keep turtles and fish together so go on do it don't do any further research as I've said it can be done and I'm always right". 

Do that sound very childish to you? I in no way believe that just anyone can keep turtles and fish together I just understand the *fact* that it can and is done and no not just in zoos. 

I'll again apologise for my spelling.

P.S for anyone other than victor reading this post I don't think people should just jump in to keeping turtles, as most don't house them right never mind adding fish to the aquaria! but I'll still state that keeping turts and fish together can be done.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

*michael* said:


> I'll now fight my side of this battle the way you have been doing.
> 
> "It's fact that you can keep turtles and fish together so go on do it don't do any further research as I've said it can be done and I'm always right".
> 
> ...



Look man, I'm FAR from an idiot and I saw where you were coming from a while ago, but now you're just reaching and making yourself look like the noob/child. Just because a few people have succeeded keeping turtles with fish doesn't mean it can be done. That % of success is so low that it shouldn't even be regarded, so if you are indeed supporting your claim of "not encouraging people to do it", then it would simply be best for everyone to say "It shouldn't be done" rather than take the chance of losing animals

What right do we as people have to put another animal in direct jeopardy of their lives and hope for some half-*ssed chance of survival? How about I put you in a cage w/ a tiger that has been raised around humans cause it has been done? Would you think that was good idea? Especially if the owner was working late one day and the tiger got hungry before he got home to feed him.

Am I making sense to you yet? This is the exact reason I told you to stop directing posts at me....you simply don't understand and you're only going to make matters worse. I don't condone/support putting people in cages with tigers, but it "can be done".....


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> Look man, I'm FAR from an idiot and I saw where you were coming from a while ago, but now you're just reaching and making yourself look like the noob/child. Just because a few people have succeeded keeping turtles with fish doesn't mean it can be done. That % of success is so low that it shouldn't even be regarded, so if you are indeed supporting your claim of "not encouraging people to do it", then it would simply be best for everyone to say *"It shouldn't be done"* yay about time you've said it shouldn't not can't rather than take the chance of losing animals
> 
> What right do we as people have to put another animal in direct jeopardy of their lives and hope for some half-*ssed chance of survival? How about I put you in a cage w/ a tiger that has been raised around humans cause it has been done? Would you think that was good idea? Especially if the owner was working late one day and the tiger got hungry before he got home to feed him. lol I see where you're coming from here but just made me laugh.
> 
> Am I making sense to you yet? you have once in this post when you said it "shouldn't be done"This is the exact reason I told you to stop directing posts at me....you simply don't understand and you're only going to make matters worse. I don't condone/support putting people in cages with tigers, but it "can be done".....


I've just woken up and I'm way to tired to pay to much attention to this so I will re-read this later.

But a few points I am a kid well young I'm 17 and I'm being a lott more mature about this than you, I'm behing most of what you have said *but *with the right people with the right amount of money, space and time this can be done.

Putting an animal in a cage,vivarium or aquarium alone can kill an it. I wouldn't do anything to cause any extra ill treatment to an animal, but I also believe and animals enclosure should be as close to and as enriched as the wild so for the turtles sake I believe fish in an aquarium is good but if you're a fish person then it OBV aint likely going to end in your favour!

I'm genuinely not trying to start an argument with you but like you have said zoos can do it, so the right person also could, 

sorry if I've missed something out but I'm tired I'll get back in a few hours : victory:
P.S don't judge me by my age :naughty:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I give up man...you are absolutely hopeless. The people who posted against combining these species have done so because they CARE about animals.

You're just picking and prodding at little stuff to try and prove someone wrong in hopes of gaining some "respect". If you were really here for the right reasons you would understand where I am coming from, but you're obviously not, so I'm done with you. You are dismissed.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

*michael* said:


> I've just woken up and I'm way to tired to pay to much attention to this so I will re-read this later.
> 
> But a few points I am a kid well young I'm 17 and I'm being a lott more mature about this than you, I'm behing most of what you have said *but *with the right people with the right amount of money, space and time this can be done.
> 
> ...


sorry, i dont agree with how victor is speaking his mind as he is, but i do agree with his opinions. this that you have written however is complete rubbish. how on earth can you say in one sentence you wouldnt do anything to cause ill treatment in animals, and then go on to say about it wont work out in the fishes favour (so meaning it is ill treatment for the fish). seriously, fish have as much right to a decent stress free life as turtles, you have just drastically lost a lot of my respect. turtles can have as much of an enriched life in a nice sized aquaria full of rocks, live plants and such like. they do not need to have stressed live fish swimming around them to be happy!


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> sorry, i dont agree with how victor is speaking his mind as he is, but i do agree with his opinions. this that you have written however is complete rubbish. how on earth can you say in one sentence you wouldnt do anything to cause ill treatment in animals, and then go on to say about it wont work out in the fishes favour (so meaning it is ill treatment for the fish). seriously, fish have as much right to a decent stress free life as turtles, you have just drastically lost a lot of my respect. turtles can have as much of an enriched life in a nice sized aquaria full of rocks, live plants and such like. they do not need to have stressed live fish swimming around them to be happy!


 ^ spot on, and this brings me right back to my first post in this thread:

it _"can"_ be done BUT from what i see of many turtle/fish set ups the fish are just there as an additional decoration and aren't researched/cared for to the same standard as the turt...

i can see why you'd want to have a nice naturalistic set up with both fish and turtles as you would find in nature but unfortunately this isn't always possible to recreate in captivity; for more reasons than just the possibility of predation


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

i do agree with the underlying message of sabertooths posts it's the manner and hypocracy i disagreed with


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

goldie1212 said:


> sorry, i dont agree with how victor is speaking his mind as he is, but i do agree with his opinions. this that you have written however is complete rubbish. how on earth can you say in one sentence you wouldnt do anything to cause ill treatment in animals, and then go on to say about it wont work out in the fishes favour (so meaning it is ill treatment for the fish). seriously, fish have as much right to a decent stress free life as turtles, you have just drastically lost a lot of my respect. turtles can have as much of an enriched life in a nice sized aquaria full of rocks, live plants and such like. they do not need to have stressed live fish swimming around them to be happy!


you can't be hypercritical when it comes to feeding animals lizards eat live snakes eat live(sometimes) why not turtles?
I wasn't trying to say go out and buy the biggest prettiest most expensive fish I mearly meant fish wich are bought and bred for food. 

I keep guppies, platies so on in my aquariums I wouldn't put then in with turtles never mind musks but if they were bought a feeder fish then yes I would. But I still believe that the right people can keep turtles and fish together! 

And *respect* the only people that recive it seems to be bullies, reptile breeders and people with a huge collection, I'm not a bully a breeder nor have a big reptile collection, so I don't expect to recive any of this nor want it :2thumb:


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

is this seriously still going on?

im gonna end it now.

fish can live with turtles.

thats a fact.

BUT, like others have said, if you choose to ignore the requirements of both the fish and turtles then you are wrong and shouldnt be attempting it.

victor - you say its wrong and hsould never be done... so how come if you go to the majority of zoos in this country you can see mixed setups of turtles and fish? 
are you going to come back with some nonsense like "zoos arent looking after them properly"? if so then your a very sad and deluded moron.
so from what you've said i get the impression you think that zoos that keep fish and turtles together arent "caring" about the animals.. would i be right in thinking that?

i agree that in most of the setups the average turtle keeper has it wont be suitable to add fish...but!! if you have a large enough setup that is adequate for both turtles and fish then there is no problem.

fish live with turtles in the wild all the time, yeah turtles eat some of the fish but thats life. its like saying you have to let a snake starve to death because its immoral to feed live mice to it!
its ridiculous!

you come marching in here spouting off nonsense withut fully explaining anything, something you do in majority of your posts, and then moan when people have a go at you.

you want us to stick to facts? ok then we will.
FISH CAN LIVE HAPPILY WITH TURTLES.

and also, while im writing this, where did you get your oh so spot on meaning of "opinon" from?
by saying what you said you are contradicting yourself, you say your opinion is that you cant keep them together, yet you say opinions dont mean jack!

im sorry, but you are just making yourself look more pathetic than before.

thing is, i am yet to see a single picture of any of your setups.. why is this? maybe you dont have any at all, or maybe your afraid because people might see them and have their own "opinions" on your setups.
either way you are losing credibility here fast.

its clear everyone here thinks your a jumped up little fool who cannot ever be wrong, about anything.
ever.

so, from now on dont post unless you have something helpful or at least have something to back up your wild claims with.

now its you who has been dismissed. 
the end.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

*michael* said:


> you can't be hypercritical when it comes to feeding animals lizards eat live snakes eat live(sometimes) why not turtles?


hehe, i was waiting for this argument:

i doubt many would disagree with feeding fish to turtles as it's no different to (for example) feeding live rodents to snakes - however, would you keep mice in the in the same small (small when compared to the natural scenario you would be trying to recreate) viv? i doubt it, so why would you keep live feeder fish with a turtle? 

i wouldn't call it cruel to live feed a fish (many fishkeepers use live feeders for other fish sp.) but i don't think it's fair keeping feeders in a situation leading up to the point where they serve their purpose that is stressful (e.g. spending every day in the same vicinity as they thing that's going to eat you..) or otherwise harmful (we have an example just down the page that illustrates the potential waste produced by turts which in turn affects the fish)



*michael* said:


> Putting an animal in a cage,vivarium or aquarium alone can kill an it. I wouldn't do anything to cause any extra ill treatment to an animal, but I also believe and animals enclosure should be as close to and as enriched as the wild so *for the turtles sake* I believe fish in an aquarium is good but if you're a fish person then it OBV aint likely going to end in your favour!


this is what you're gonna get picked at for if anything; like i've said (twice now?) fish just seem to be added for decoration...


this has to be the liveliest fishy thread i've seen since Fenwoman popped in :lol2:


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Pearson Design said:


> is this seriously still going on?
> 
> im gonna end it now.
> 
> ...


^^Exactly^^ but you know he's gunna come back and say you're completely wrong.

there is no getting through to him he has to be right all the time, about 90% of his posts are putting people down but then he has never given any evidence that he is as good at caring for these animals that he's making out to be, as soon as he is questioned he gives the same simple reply "don't worry about me" 

I don't think there is much else to say as it's all been said to him many times! :bash:


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

daftlassieEmma said:


> hehe, i was waiting for this argument:
> 
> i doubt many would disagree with feeding fish to turtles as it's no different to (for example) feeding live rodents to snakes - however, would you keep mice in the in the same small (small when compared to the natural scenario you would be trying to recreate) viv? i doubt it, so why would you keep live feeder fish with a turtle?


that just a little different :lol2: there is then risks for both snake and rodant but I see where you're coming from there, but to answer your question (I think) yes I would keep feeder fish in with turtles as a food source, and I'd feel safe knowing they will not eat the turtles : victory:



daftlassieEmma said:


> this is what you're gonna get picked at for if anything; like i've said (twice now?) fish just seem to be added for decoration...


 I knew I'd get alittle abuse?(can't think of the right word) for that, this is the fish sub-furum afterall. 



daftlassieEmma said:


> this has to be the liveliest fishy thread i've seen since Fenwoman popped in :lol2:


I have to say in my sort time of being a member this is the longest fish thread I've yet seen :lol2:.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> is this seriously still going on?
> 
> im gonna end it now.
> 
> ...



For the umteenth time....If you had been reading, paying attention and using your search function instead of letting your fingers type words without knowing what you were talking about, you would have seen some of my pictures of my animals and enclosures several MONTHS ago. Do you have Attention-Deficit Disorder? It seems like no matter how many times someone tell you somethings, despite how clear of plain and proper English it is, you just don't understand? 

How is it that you can exhibit these type of mis-qualities and think people should still consider taking your advice as legit?? REAL TALK. You seem to really like making big long heart-felt posts towards me (a result of a boy-crush?) and picking out everything that's wrong with me, yet you fail to achieve simple tasks required to function properly in society such as the aforementioned.

If you would have asked nicely, I would have linked you right to my pictures, but since you want to act like a sniveling little girl all the time, use the "Search Function" in your user-profile and find them yourself. Am I foolish to explain things to you since you seem to have such trouble comprehending ? You have dismissed no one, Fool...don't even bother taking the tough-guy tone with me, because I already KNOW you're nothing but an internet-tough-guy and the only reason you are so adamant about speaking your mind here is because it's the 1st chance you have ever had in your life to be able to do it without having to worry about someone putting you in your place. I would LOVE to see how you handle yourself in the real world, much less a ghettoish section of America. The rich-boy attitude wouldn't get you anywhere fast. No disrespect, but I'm just calling it how I see it, and we both know it's true. ...there's a reason I have studied human-psychology for so long - eventually it gives you a form of almost psychic-ability to see into one's soul and reveal the true nature of things. And I still think it's hilarious that you're a supposed fish-keeper, yet you are totally ignoring all the other threads in this section JUST so you can post here and argue with me because you're a complete DRAMA-QUEEN. You are a total waste of time....no, a waste of life, You are dismissed.

@ Emma and Goldie - I appreciate the responses and I accept the fact that you ladies think I should try redirecting my tone of posting. I typically do in 90% of my posts, and as a challenge to me I will try to stay civil even when dealing w/ some of these "most aggravating people I have ever encountered" thus overall it will only benefit me more in the long-run and skill me further in dealing w/ difficult people and keeping my cool when doing so.


@ Tomwilson - What hypocrisy? Trying to get people to learn from a mistake I made over a decade ago is not hypocrisy. I respect you for understanding me despite the way I come-off to people, but you would actually deserve MORE respect if you could understand why I try to see people learn from MY mistakes rather than their own. It's kind of like a good parent who sees their kids doing something they already experienced and they don't want their kids taking the same path as them and walking down a path that leads to a dead end that will only disappoint.

Michael - just doesn't get any response because I'm trying to look-out for him and make sure he doesn't make himself look even MORE stupid. You're welcome.


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> I have studied human-psychology for so long - eventually it gives you a form of almost psychic-ability to see into one's soul and reveal the true nature of things. And I still think it's hilarious that you're a supposed fish-keeper, yet you are totally ignoring all the other threads in this section JUST so you can post here and argue with me because you're a complete DRAMA-QUEEN. You are a total waste of time....no, a waste of life, You are dismissed.


This actually made a little bit of wee come out! The guy's deluded, thinks he's Derren Brown!?!

Victor why do you insist on posting??? Not one person have stood up for you, most people have stated you know your stuff but you're a jumped up tool. Just leave it and go back to worshipping yourself or what ever it is you do all day.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Shredder said:


> This actually made a little bit of wee come out! The guy's deluded, thinks he's Derren Brown!?!
> 
> Victor why do you insist on posting??? Not one person have stood up for you, most people have stated you know your stuff but you're a jumped up tool. Just leave it and go back to worshipping yourself or what ever it is you do all day.


I'm sorry what did you say? I wasn't listening because I was too busy worshipping myself. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> *michael* - just doesn't get any response because I'm trying to look-out for him and make sure he doesn't make himself look even MORE stupid. You're welcome.


Victorrrr I know in your own strange way you're trying to be nice :flrt:and stop me looking a fool but I have my own opinion on this matter and it wont change.:Na_Na_Na_Na: I don't at all think that I have once looked stupid though. :crazy:

I think we just need to agree to disagree on this subject? :2thumb:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

*michael* said:


> Victorrrr I know in your own strange way you're trying to be nice :flrt:and stop me looking a fool but I have my own opinion on this matter and it wont change.:Na_Na_Na_Na: I don't at all think that I have once looked stupid though. :crazy:
> 
> I think we just need to agree to disagree on this subject? :2thumb:


Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Truce?


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

Victor Creed said:


> Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Truce?


Truce :grouphug:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> hehe, i was waiting for this argument:
> 
> *i doubt many would disagree with feeding fish to turtles as it's no different to (for example) feeding live rodents to snakes - however, would you keep mice in the in the same small (small when compared to the natural scenario you would be trying to recreate) viv? i doubt it, so why would you keep live feeder fish with a turtle? *
> 
> ...


this in bold. i have no issue feeding live fish to other fish/animals. i really dont, some need it. what i disagree with is the inhumane stressful existance the fish will live until the death comes. if you want to feed live, give them a tank of their own, of adequate size, keep them happy and healthy until you wish to feed them. yes in a large enough aquarium, the fish stand more of a chance of escape and hiding etc, but in most home aquariums there simply isnt enough space for them to escape, so they are stressed to an extent most of the time. why not allow both animals to live a good life? as said, we could shut a person in a cage with a well fed tiger, im quite sure they wouldnt enjoy their little existance for fear it may attack at any minute, but it could work, for a while. 

i still dont see how someone can say they dont wish to cause any cruelty and suffering on any animal, yet will happily set-up an enclosed system with both predator and prey for as long as the prey manages to live for, when its completely pointless apart from possibly looking a bit nicer and more interesting for the cruel human who forced them to co-habit the same small space.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

I've followed this post, all 15 pages! As I said at the beginning over on Shelled don't do it. Its unfair on the fish plus they have different requirements especially as the turtles get older they do not require heated water. Plus tropical fish tend to have a lid on their tanks and turtles shouldn't. Anway, it seems the poster has now separated them and bought additional tanks and fish.

Of far more concern is a previous poster on here posting in Shelled a link to a Youtube video showing his two new unquarantined turtles tearing apart a goldfish. It turns out the fish was already dead, but that matters not. He asked us to identify what the turtles were in the video clip. I replied accordingly :censor:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> I've followed this post, all 15 pages! As I said at the beginning over on Shelled don't do it. Its unfair on the fish plus they have different requirements especially as the turtles get older they do not require heated water. Plus tropical fish tend to have a lid on their tanks and turtles shouldn't. Anway, it seems the poster has now separated them and bought additional tanks and fish.
> 
> Of far more concern is a previous poster on here posting in Shelled a link to a Youtube video showing his two new unquarantined turtles tearing apart a goldfish. It turns out the fish was already dead, but that matters not. He asked us to identify what the turtles were in the video clip. I replied accordingly :censor:


Yeah I saw that... it's okay I suppose because the fish was dead:bash::bash:

I really don't get why this thread is still going on...


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> For the umteenth time....If you had been reading, paying attention and using your search function instead of letting your fingers type words without knowing what you were talking about, you would have seen some of my pictures of my animals and enclosures several MONTHS ago. Do you have Attention-Deficit Disorder? It seems like no matter how many times someone tell you somethings, despite how clear of plain and proper English it is, you just don't understand?
> 
> How is it that you can exhibit these type of mis-qualities and think people should still consider taking your advice as legit?? REAL TALK. You seem to really like making big long heart-felt posts towards me (a result of a boy-crush?) and picking out everything that's wrong with me, yet you fail to achieve simple tasks required to function properly in society such as the aforementioned.
> 
> ...


*Wow! Words simply cannot describe my amazement at this guy.You must be banned from every U.S forum to keep coming onto a UK one spouting this mindless drivel,where you are hated by the great majority of other users.I can only think you are mentally ill perhaps? (I really mean this,its not meant as an insult)*


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> *Wow! Words simply cannot describe my amazement at this guy.You must be banned from every U.S forum to keep coming onto a UK one spouting this mindless drivel,where you are hated by the great majority of other users.I can only think you are mentally ill perhaps? (I really mean this,its not meant as an insult)*



LOL, thanks for the input, I appreciate your uneducated opinion....really, it means alot to me. Thank you for joining this thread so late into it and not knowing what's going on, and thank you for arbitrarily saying I speak mindless drivel. You're a really awesome person and I wish I could be as cool as you.....I practice in the mirror everyday. Now I am going to go drop myself on my head to achieve the full effect of being JUST LIKE YOU!!!

By the way, this is the 1st Animal Forum I have joined,....I always used to just Google what I wanted to know. Have a nice day. :lol2:


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## BumNum (Dec 13, 2009)

Message to the OP, can you close this thread please.............


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

:lol2: why close it, if we all just stopped replying it would disappear anyway. if you dont want to read it, just dont come on. i personally find it quite funny, annoying yes, but funny. i just hope the OP has sorted his situation and put all his livestock in adequate separate aquariums :2thumb:


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> LOL, thanks for the input, I appreciate your uneducated opinion....really, it means alot to me. Thank you for joining this thread so late into it and not knowing what's going on, and thank you for arbitrarily saying I speak mindless drivel. You're a really awesome person and I wish I could be as cool as you.....I practice in the mirror everyday. Now I am going to go drop myself on my head to achieve the full effect of being JUST LIKE YOU!!!
> 
> By the way, this is the 1st Animal Forum I have joined,....I always used to just Google what I wanted to know. Have a nice day. :lol2:


I joined on page 3 of the thread,then left again as your personality began to shine through.......Keep taking the meds


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## *michael* (Jan 14, 2011)

BumNum said:


> Message to the OP, can you close this thread please.............


Even thought this thread is annoying I don't think it needs to be closed, as if read properly most post for and against the matter are quite educational: victory:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> I joined on page 3 of the thread,then left again as your personality began to shine through.......Keep taking the meds


Nah, i'd be boring if i took the meds......u mean to say you don't appreciate my charming personality and random acts of kindness? Oh you're such a kidder. Admit it, you can't get enough of me...that's why you keep coming to this thread....LOLOLOL!!! :mf_dribble::lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na::devil::whip::bash:


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## Shredder (Jan 19, 2011)

YouTube - Friendship of Turtle and Goldfish

Haha if i only i'd of found this sooner!


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## Flattestmeat (Nov 5, 2008)

Just found this thread, I keep fish and a map turtle together. I have had them living together for over two years now. I started out with 6 black neon tetras and 3 platys in a densely planted tank. I let the fish get accustom to the tank for 3 or 4 weeks till I put in my turtle, over which time the platys produced many fry. For the first few days the tetras were clearly threatened as they were shoaling much more than normal, but the turtle was much more interested in the snails that had over populated my tank. After a week or so the fish were acting normal again but I did get a little bloom of algae so brought a small group of oto catfish(which I do not feed and eat only the algae they graze). Since then I have added 6 more rummy nose tetras and a pair of kribs. In the two years I have never once seen my turtle kill a fish. Sometimes at feeding he will try and nip them, this is only as they try and steal his food and crowd round it so much so that he cannot see it. My platys, otos and the kribs are spawning and thus are obviously under no undue stress. The kribs are actually more dominant than my turtle, especially when they are herding their young around for feeding. I chose my species of fish so that they could thrive in the same environment my turtle needed, and this is the case. I regularly test my water, maybe twice a week but do not do water changes regularly at all, in fact only when it is needed which is almost never. I would say as long as you chose the species carefully to ensure none are physiologically stressed by the turtles particular water parameters and are lucky in having a "well tempered" turtle there is no reason for them not to be kept together.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Map Turtle = North American

Tetras, Plattys = South American

Kribensis = African

just sayin........everything in that tank has different water parameter requirements.

Just sayin......


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

As I said on your thread in Shelled - they have different requirements. 

Turtles should not have a lid on their tank and as they get older they do not need heated water. Also, the tank is only just big enough for the turtle and, I think, you are running the risk of overcrowding, particularly as you wanted to add another Map or some Musks.


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## Flattestmeat (Nov 5, 2008)

Hi victor, they may well come from different parts of the world, I am not disputing that, they do all require similar water parameters though (or their ranges all cross). And as stated everything is doing well and breeding, with no deaths to date. 

Stephen, I do not have a lid, just a reflector for my u.v. tubes, and the turtle and fish are fine at 21degrees Celsius. This thing with overcrowding I am assuming is due to the 40L per one inch of shell, this however does not take into account my specific set-up. This measurement I assume is to do with the bioload, as I have seen it stated elsewhere the tank should be 5x the turtles length and 2.5x their hight. If so everyone's tank will be different, as my tank is heavily planted (CO2 diffusion used) and has two canisters going I really do not feel the added bioload would be an issue


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Flattestmeat said:


> Hi victor, they may well come from different parts of the world, I am not disputing that, they do all require similar water parameters though (or their ranges all cross). And as stated everything is doing well and breeding, with no deaths to date.
> 
> Stephen, I do not have a lid, just a reflector for my u.v. tubes, and the turtle and fish are fine at 21degrees Celsius. This thing with overcrowding I am assuming is due to the 40L per one inch of shell, this however does not take into account my specific set-up. This measurement I assume is to do with the bioload, as I have seen it stated elsewhere the tank should be 5x the turtles length and 2.5x their hight. If so everyone's tank will be different, as my tank is heavily planted (CO2 diffusion used) and has two canisters going I really do not feel the added bioload would be an issue


No dude......he's simply referring to the amount of open space allotted to each organism.


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

WOW THIS THREAD IS GREAT:2thumb: i mean how long can a row go on for :lolsign:
now easy tiger(Victor)
this is my experience of keeping fish and turtels together for 6 years whithout any murders 
first of we had a 7x3x3 tropical tank with big fish 7 inch being the smallest 18 inches being the largest .after a while we liked the idear of keeping somthing a bit diffrent and decided on snake neck turtle (Macrochelodina rugosa) after doing lots of reserch and reading. we set them up in a 5x3x2 purpose made setup. after about a year of happy turtels we took the decision to move a big turtle over to the big tank with fish in when we had to decorate and move the turtle tank. at first we did it by keeping the turt in his tank over night feeding him in the morning then puting him in the fish tank after feeding where he whould stay till 9-10 in the evening then be placed back in the turtle set up for the night .this we did for 2 weeks before we moved the turtels over to the big tank for a 2 week time span for the decorating to be done .just have to point out that while we wer doing this i increased the water changes in the trop tank to 200ltrs a week
any how..... after the 2 weeks we found that far from the turtle being a threat to the fish the fish whould not leav the turtle alone following him around the tank (the turtle) was about 11 inch shell 19 inches overall 
the fish and turtle lived happily for 6yrs whith no problem for about 5 days a week .at the end of the day a fish tank is not a great habitat for a turtle purely for the fact that a turtle will want to come out on to land and scap about in sub that is semi dry for that reason this is why our turtle still had 2 days aweek in his own set up. (a) so we could give him his powderd aditives on his food whithout clouding the tank water
(b) so that we could regulate the uv bulb and know he was geting what he needed 
and 
(c)let him have a place wear he could dry out till he wanted to go back into water

this is not a for or against... its just what we did and this worked for us our fish and our turtle 
sadly thomas our very much loved pet turtle died a few months ago he started looking a bit slow and lathergic and we hunted about for a vet that had knolege of turtles and found one in romford essex after much exspence (over 400 pounds) the conclusion was that liver failure was the reason for thomases early entance to the pearly gates 

so this is my story of my turtle and fish 
sorry for the long post but i saw this thread and felt that maybe a pesonal experience may help in this thread 

r.i.p thomas 







lets see some love in this thread lifes to short eh!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Ok, now let me tell you a story about a pair of Diamonback Terrapins that were kept in a 360 U.S. Gallon tank w/ a group of larger fish at one of my LFS. They were fine for a few months, then the large Red-tail Catfish decided to bite off one of the Terrapin's legs and they separated the turtles from the fish almost 6 months after I told them this was a bad idea. The terrapin's leg healed back to a stump after they separated them and it died less than a month later. THE END.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Ok, now let me tell you a story about a pair of Diamonback Terrapins that were kept in a 360 U.S. Gallon tank w/ a group of larger fish at one of my LFS. They were fine for a few months, then the large Red-tail Catfish decided to bite off one of the Terrapin's legs and they separated the turtles from the fish almost 6 months after I told them this was a bad idea. The terrapin's leg healed back to a stump after they separated them and it died less than a month later. THE END.



i wish your bullshit would end

you have gone and done it again.

people have put their experiences with fish living with turtles and youve gone and tried to make out you know best.

fish and turtles can live together given proper living conditions.
the end


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> i wish your bullshit would end
> 
> you have gone and done it again.
> 
> ...


I wish you would STFU for once in your pathetic excuse for a life. Stop following me around like some internet-stalker and always commenting on what I have to say like one of my EX girl friends. You're a damn TROLL. I did absolutley nothing more than share a life-experience just like the person posting above me. Stop inserting your 2 cents, no one cares about your input.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

hemps123 said:


> WOW THIS THREAD IS GREAT:2thumb: i mean how long can a row go on for :lolsign:
> now easy tiger(Victor)
> this is my experience of keeping fish and turtels together for 6 years whithout any murders
> first of we had a 7x3x3 tropical tank with big fish 7 inch being the smallest 18 inches being the largest .after a while we liked the idear of keeping somthing a bit diffrent and decided on snake neck turtle (Macrochelodina rugosa) after doing lots of reserch and reading. we set them up in a 5x3x2 purpose made setup. after about a year of happy turtels we took the decision to move a big turtle over to the big tank with fish in when we had to decorate and move the turtle tank. at first we did it by keeping the turt in his tank over night feeding him in the morning then puting him in the fish tank after feeding where he whould stay till 9-10 in the evening then be placed back in the turtle set up for the night .this we did for 2 weeks before we moved the turtels over to the big tank for a 2 week time span for the decorating to be done .just have to point out that while we wer doing this i increased the water changes in the trop tank to 200ltrs a week
> ...


Interesting - but I wonder if he was being stressed at all by being moved about for the 5 days in/2 days out etc?


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

hi Stephen i dont think so he always looked to be very happy in both his tanks and being moved only 2 times aweek once on a friday evening and once on a sunday night never shyed away from us when we went to get him .also we whould give him the once over on the sunday move just to cheek his skin and shell . he also used to take food from us but being poor sighted this could lead to the odd finger geting taged but it never broke the skin


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## AnythingWithAShell (Apr 14, 2009)

hemps123 said:


> hi Stephen i dont think so he always looked to be very happy in both his tanks and being moved only 2 times aweek once on a friday evening and once on a sunday night never shyed away from us when we went to get him .also we whould give him the once over on the sunday move just to cheek his skin and shell . he also used to take food from us but being poor sighted this could lead to the odd finger geting taged but it never broke the skin


Am I reading it right that your turtle did not have the chance to bask at all in the fish tank 5 days a week?

If I am reading it right, then you're completely correct, that sort of fish tank setup is definitely not the best environment for a turtle.


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

hi AnythingWithAShell :thumb:
well pointed out i should say that in the fish tank he had 3 turtle docks siliconed together and a lamp above them .but the point i was trying to get across is that i still belive that even tho my turt was ok with fish the turt still need a setup which included a land erea whith sand sub and shallow water area (10-14 inches deep)


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## katieblake (Jun 2, 2010)

my red eared slider shares its pond with fish never had one eatern ?


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## karlb123 (Jul 20, 2009)

same as, mine has been in a koi pond all summer... totally fine


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Cant believe this ones still running! I have Ocadia sinensis in a POND with goldfish-no problem with that much space,and the species is almost entirely vegetarian once adult,i just dont feel an aquarium is the right environment for mixing fish with turtles (apart from Fly Rivers).


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Berber King said:


> Cant believe this ones still running! I have Ocadia sinensis in a POND with goldfish-no problem with that much space,and the species is almost entirely vegetarian once adult,i just dont feel an aquarium is the right environment for mixing fish with turtles (apart from Fly Rivers).



THANK YOU. A POND is one thing but cramping turtles in a tank with Cichlids requires some serious space and filtration. Herbivorous turtles in a pond is not NEARLY the same as carnivorous/omnivorous turtles ina damn glass aquarium. Most Cichlids are not housed properly by themselves as is. Most turtles are not housed properly by themselves as is. WHY on EARTH would people cramp them all together?

I think this is the 1st time i actually agree with you on something.


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## katieblake (Jun 2, 2010)

did i also mention when she comes in for the winter she goes in with my sons 3 molly and 3 guppys


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

katieblake said:


> did i also mention when she comes in for the winter she goes in with my sons 3 molly and 3 guppys


No, as I've said all along they have different requirements. The fish (obviously depending on what they are) usually have heated water and a lid on their tank. Turtles, particuarly, one you age and size does not need heated water, nor should there be a lid on her tank as it can cause a respiratory proble.

What size tank is it?


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## katieblake (Jun 2, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> No, as I've said all along they have different requirements. The fish (obviously depending on what they are) usually have heated water and a lid on their tank. Turtles, particuarly, one you age and size does not need heated water, nor should there be a lid on her tank as it can cause a respiratory proble.
> 
> What size tank is it?


first the fish do not have a heater as they were born in a cold water tank 
the tank has not got a lid it measures roughly 6ft x2.5ft it was made by a family freind for me it also had a built in dock for her


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> I wish you would STFU for once in your pathetic excuse for a life. Stop following me around like some internet-stalker and always commenting on what I have to say like one of my EX girl friends. You're a damn TROLL. I did absolutley nothing more than share a life-experience just like the person posting above me. Stop inserting your 2 cents, no one cares about your input.



as no one cares for yours

and fyi, the fact you put THE END at the end of your post shows how sad you are.

im actually done with this forum, it used to be helpful, but not anymore.

you are the main reason for its decline. with every post you enter the site gets less and less credible, as does your "knowledge"


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> as no one cares for yours
> 
> and fyi, the fact you put THE END at the end of your post shows how sad you are.
> 
> ...


LOLOLOL !!! Then go back under you bridge and cry some more, TROLL. I have never seen a grown man of 30 years old cry and complain so much about something. I keep hearing you say "I'm leaving" or "I'm trying to get banned" or "I'm sick of this guys rants" or "I hate this forum cuz I can't pretend to know what I'm talking about now that smart, experienced people are here" <-----( that's my favorite complaint from you so far).

Let me just ask you this : Instead of always trying to make yourself the center of attention, trying to start drama, or victimizing yourself when you are just as much to blame as anyone else.......why don't you just log-out and DON'T log-in anymore? Do you really need to be banned or tell everyone your sob-story? What is so hard about logging out and not logging back in? Are you really that weak-minded?

This forum is very helpful, the fish section has jumped to life lately, and in addition to that, if it wasn't and no one cared about my views and "opinions" (as you like to call them), then I wouldn't recieve PM from different people asking for advice often, right?

Personally, if you came to MY website, I would not have banned you because that is not what we do, and it is absolutely a last resort......

but you would have been LAUGHED off the site by now and left on your own out of sheer embarassment of making yourself look idiotic. Good Day, Sir.

Now as I said, stop stalking me and get some psychiatric help.


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

soo vic what you keeping at the mo mate any pics


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

hemps123 said:


> soo vic what you keeping at the mo mate any picsimage


Nothing of my Cichlids atm, but you can view my Yellow Anaconda in the anaconda thread and Tiger Salamander in the Amphibians forum. Other than that I haven't taken any pictures recently....especially since I'm in the midst of moving a bunch of stuff around, selling and trying to get rid of things that have grown to big or aggressive. I constantly accept rescues and re-home them as well as have several breeding pairs - Royal Gold Saum/"Green Terrors", Jaguar Cichlids, Jack Dempseys, Convicts, FireMouths, etc. 

I should finally have everything sorted out properly by Spring at the latest which is when I can introduce this Channel Catfish to my friend's pond which has exhibited "freak-of-Nature" growth-rate. Things have been really rough for us lately so getting things sorted out is always halted by one thing or another.

Let's just say that I have spend many 8-12 hour "works days" in my basement working on fishtanks and reptile enclosures lately. it seems a man's work is never finished, and because there is always a way to make everything better, I doubt I will ever allow it to be finished, honestly.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

hemps123 said:


> soo vic what you keeping at the mo mate any picsimage



he has no pics cos he has no fish 

just for good measure heres a pic of one of my tanks


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Is this thread worth reading?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Is this thread worth reading?


Yes - if you like reading insults being traded!

No - if you want some really good advice, but choose to ignore it!


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

Pearson Design said:


> he has no pics cos he has no fish
> 
> just for good measure heres a pic of one of my tanks
> 
> image


thats a great set up :2thumb::2thumb: love to give the old marines a bash but dont have the time or cash at the mo :mf_dribble:


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## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

Cool tank Pearson. Loving those pink tree looking things:blush: (rubbish with marine tanks). What are they?


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> he has no pics cos he has no fish
> 
> just for good measure heres a pic of one of my tanks
> 
> image




Didn't you say you were done with this forum? Or was that just another cry for attention from a very feminine guy in need of psychiatric help? Still following me around like my shadow, I see. What's really sad is that you have all those nice tanks and give such lousy advice it doesn't even seem like you know what you are doing. In addition to that, you carry yourself in such a horrible manner, only a person with no self-respect would actually listen to anything you say. You said you were leaving....stop talking about it aand BE about it, Fake-One.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

Pearson Design, Victor Creed....put each other on ignore; for our sanities as well as your own :lol2:


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> Pearson Design, Victor Creed....put each other on ignore; for our sanities as well as your own :lol2:


im just finding a fun way of breaking up my days lol


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Didn't you say you were done with this forum? Or was that just another cry for attention from a very feminine guy in need of psychiatric help? Still following me around like my shadow, I see. What's really sad is that you have all those nice tanks and give such lousy advice it doesn't even seem like you know what you are doing. In addition to that, you carry yourself in such a horrible manner, only a person with no self-respect would actually listen to anything you say. You said you were leaving....stop talking about it aand BE about it, Fake-One.



lousy advice?
where? when? examples please?

and thanks for the compliments  believe it or not i do know a thing or two about keeping all types of fish


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Pearson Design said:


> lousy advice?
> where? when? examples please?
> 
> and thanks for the compliments  believe it or not i do know a thing or two about keeping all types of fish



You're welcome. Here, make yourself useful since you know your stuff, like explaining how they would have had all the eggs they are willing to have yet still spawning several times after the fact.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/7695242-post17.html

I don't see you making the better out of the situtation by responding to other threads with useful advice, just frequently popping in here to troll me. Perhaps the forum would be better if you contributed more useful information???? Maybe???? Just a thought.


Initial question that no one can seem to answer: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/7689540-post12.html

I figured I'd post it here cuz this thread is the only place you'll see it.


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