# is it illegal to feed live mice...



## jamie11 (Mar 15, 2011)

and goldfish in the uk? im just wondering as my beardy wont eat frozen ones :- ( but alot of people seem to do it anyway

do you feed live mice?


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## Keto (Mar 28, 2011)

You probably shouldn't be feeding a beardie any mice.

& AFAIK it is illegal.


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## jamie11 (Mar 15, 2011)

oh right...

anyway i've heard that it's illegal to feed any vertibrate alive to another animal ._. i just want to clear things up


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## LizardFTI (Dec 2, 2006)

jamie. said:


> and goldfish in the uk? im just wondering as my beardy wont eat frozen ones :- ( but alot of people seem to do it anyway
> 
> do you feed live mice?


Beardies shouldnt be fed on mice, they eat greens and insects (mice are the odd treat). Live feeding isnt illegal, but it should only be used as a last resort as it is stressful for both animals and the mouse could hurt your reptile. 

Definitely not something you should be considering in this situation regardless.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

no it isn't illegal; it's a grey area because it's not encouraged but it isn't illegal.


although i do feed live mice; i find dead mice refuse to eat


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## jamie11 (Mar 15, 2011)

ELZ1985 said:


> Beardies shouldnt be fed on mice, they eat greens and insects (mice are the odd treat). Live feeding isnt illegal, but it should only be used as a last resort as it is stressful for both animals and the mouse could hurt your reptile.
> 
> Definitely not something you should be considering in this situation regardless.


that's what i meant lol, i wouldnt ever feed it her on her main diet, just as a treat 

tyy


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## Tedster (Nov 24, 2010)

Meko said:


> no it isn't illegal; it's a grey area because it's not encouraged but it isn't illegal.
> 
> 
> *although i do feed live mice; i find dead mice refuse to eat*


You do make me laugh :2thumb::lol2:


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## jabba212006 (Nov 4, 2007)

It IS illegal to feed live rodents in the U.K unless the animal being fed is at risk of death due to not feeding otherwise, 

However, depending on the type of animal you are feeding obviously depends on what type of live foods you are allowed to feed,

i.e, things like beardie's are obviously allowed to be fed locusts, crickets, worms and things like that (also to add, beardie's can eat PINKY mice now and again but it is advised to be kept to a minimum)

Things like snakes and lizards that are captive bred should be fed only on Frozen/Thawed prey it is illegal to do otherwise,
(However live fish are allowed to be fed to animals that eat them)

UNLESS, the animal is wild caught and rely's souly upon live food item's, however, according to the law, every attempt should be made to "convert" the prey item's to F/T, (which might i add could take a considerable amount of time, depending on the age of the animal)

Hope this helps.. : victory:


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

jabba212006 said:


> It IS illegal to feed live rodents in the U.K unless the animal being fed is at risk of death due to not feeding otherwise,
> 
> However, depending on the type of animal you are feeding obviously depends on what type of live foods you are allowed to feed,
> 
> ...


Where is all this info to be found? As I understood that it is not illegal to feed live vertebrate to reptiles, as this would be in direct conflict to the Animal Welfare act.


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## rickpellen (Nov 21, 2008)

keto said:


> you probably shouldn't be feeding a beardie any mice.
> 
> & afaik it is illegal.


 
arrest me


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## ric0898 (Oct 26, 2010)

jabba212006 said:


> It IS illegal to feed live rodents in the U.K unless the animal being fed is at risk of death due to not feeding otherwise,
> 
> However, depending on the type of animal you are feeding obviously depends on what type of live foods you are allowed to feed,
> 
> ...


its not illegal :censor:hell how many times has this been said its not advised but not illegal they would try and prosicute saying its inhumane to what ever food source it is but then the argument would be then if i dont feed live them im causing unessary suffering to my reptile wich may cause it to die so its a pretyy grey area but totaly legal in doing it so before people start going on check the facts arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh rant over and i also have a snake that will only eat live so if the case why have i never been done :lol2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

The law says that you can't cause *un-necessary* suffering to another animal; and that is as far as the law goes, if i remember correctly but it doesn't say it's illegal.


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## jabba212006 (Nov 4, 2007)

Section 4 Animal Welfare Act 2006. 

INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY DEFRA......

IT IS AN *OFFENCE *TO CAUSE UN-NECESSARY SUFFERING TO ANIMALS UNDER THE CONTROL OF MAN.

END OF.

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Graham Arthurton (Aug 6, 2009)

*live food*

So when everyone buys their frozen food from their local shop did all these die naturally ????

What`s the difference ?

Will I not be able to buy chicken , beef , pork , lamb or turkey from now on ??:lol2::lol2:


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## ric0898 (Oct 26, 2010)

Graham Arthurton said:


> So when everyone buys their frozen food from their local shop did all these die naturally ????
> 
> What`s the difference ?
> 
> Will I not be able to buy chicken , beef , pork , lamb or turkey from now on ??:lol2::lol2:


 :censor: so isn't anything food related tht has a pulse then must be caused suffering etc b4 it dies its not illegal and never has been in this country im afriad end of :bash:


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## ric0898 (Oct 26, 2010)

ric0898 said:


> :censor: so isn't anything food related tht has a pulse then must be caused suffering etc b4 it dies its not illegal and never has been in this country im afriad end of :bash:


 beef and chicken isnt tht all processed and not realy from animals :lol2:


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

jabba212006 said:


> Section 4 Animal Welfare Act 2006.
> 
> INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY DEFRA......
> 
> ...


I have two live feeder here.

If I feed them live I'm causing un-necessary suffering to the rat but if I dont feed them live they will starve and die causing un-necessary suffering to the snake.

Damned if I do, Damned if I dont.

Also, if the snake will only eat live is it *un-necessary *suffering as its necessary to keep the snake alive??


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## ric0898 (Oct 26, 2010)

markhill said:


> I have two live feeder here.
> 
> If I feed them live I'm causing un-necessary suffering to the rat but if I dont feed them live they will starve and die causing un-necessary suffering to the snake.
> 
> ...


 not at if thts whats needed m8 plus is it not suffering if this happened in the wild or would it be put down to nature :whip:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

jabba212006 said:


> Section 4 Animal Welfare Act 2006.
> 
> INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY DEFRA......
> 
> ...



you highlighted the wrong word. the correct one is un-necessary. If it's necessary to cause suffering then happy days


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Meko said:


> you highlighted the wrong word. the correct one is un-necessary. If it's necessary to cause suffering then happy days


That's what I thought too^^


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

As other have said live feeding is allowed if it is absolutly necessary. It should however be carried out as a last resort. It can be stressful for both animals involved and there is a risk to the reptile when the fluffy meal trys to fight for its life. As far as I am aware it is illegal to make a public display of livefeeding or to livefeed for fun. You only have to look at youtube to see how some people get a thrill from watching live feeding.

As for giving a mouse to a beardie, live or defrost, I seriously advise against it. Some keepers may give a pinkie to a gravid female but other than that well gut loaded insects and salad are all a beardie needs.


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

Right, I have a friend who is a reptile keeper and also a RSPCA officer. Now if you want to put a live mouse in with a reptile for food then unless there is a bowl of food and some drinking water for the mouse in the reptiles cage then if the RSPCA come round and the mouse is uneaten without the above stuff then they can take all animals off you. As you are not caring for that mouse, even if it is food. Remember, you don't have to let the RSPCA in your house. I think the point is here though, if you want to feed live cos you think it's cool to watch (as I do), or you are against it, as long as that feeder mouse is in your care then make sure it's well kept for til feeding day comes. And for those against feeding live rodents but are ok with feeding live inverts, you're just like the veggies who eat fish. A complete contradiction!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

veggies don't eat fish, pescatarians do.


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

Meko said:


> veggies don't eat fish, pescatarians do.


Sorry, I'm just going on what the veggies who I know who eat fish have told me. I just spoke to one and they don't even know they are classed as a pescatarian so there's no need to be condescending. My point still stands that some people won't eat meat yet eat fish, and that is contradicting.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Actually Barlow has the absolute correct answer.
By law you must supply the mouse with food and water.
But the reality is if you do have to feed live then you should never leave it in there for many reasons, if i have had to do it in the past i allways watch and if the snake doesnt take it within a reasonable amount of time i will take it out


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

no it isn't contradicting because fish isn't 'meat'. If a veggie eats fish then they're a pescatarian but just don't know there's a different name. It's be contradicting if they were a veggie but ate bacon butties.


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## Pirate7 (Apr 7, 2008)

*FOR ALL THOES QUOTED BELOW READ THIS, IT WILL CLEAR EVERYTHING UP!!!!!!!! 
*_It is *NOT* illegal to feed live vertebrates. _
*http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/69279-live-feeding-laws.html*

^^ Maybe that should be a sticky to stop threads like this?!



jamie. said:


> oh right...
> 
> anyway i've heard that it's illegal to feed any vertibrate alive to another animal ._. i just want to clear things up





jabba212006 said:


> It IS illegal to feed live rodents in the U.K unless the animal being fed is at risk of death due to not feeding otherwise,
> 
> However, depending on the type of animal you are feeding obviously depends on what type of live foods you are allowed to feed,
> 
> ...





andy007 said:


> Where is all this info to be found? As I understood that it is not illegal to feed live vertebrate to reptiles, as this would be in direct conflict to the Animal Welfare act.





jabba212006 said:


> Section 4 Animal Welfare Act 2006.
> 
> INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY DEFRA......
> 
> ...





Barlow said:


> Right, I have a friend who is a reptile keeper and also a RSPCA officer. Now if you want to put a live mouse in with a reptile for food then unless there is a bowl of food and some drinking water for the mouse in the reptiles cage then if the RSPCA come round and the mouse is uneaten without the above stuff then they can take all animals off you. As you are not caring for that mouse, even if it is food. Remember, you don't have to let the RSPCA in your house. I think the point is here though, if you want to feed live cos you think it's cool to watch (as I do), or you are against it, as long as that feeder mouse is in your care then make sure it's well kept for til feeding day comes. And for those against feeding live rodents but are ok with feeding live inverts, you're just like the veggies who eat fish. A complete contradiction!!


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

Meko said:


> no it isn't contradicting because fish isn't 'meat'. If a veggie eats fish then they're a pescatarian but just don't know there's a different name. It's be contradicting if they were a veggie but ate bacon butties.


How can a fish not be meat? A sheep and a cod are both vertebrates. Take water out of the equation and what is the diffference??????


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Barlow said:


> How can a fish not be meat? A sheep and a cod are both vertebrates. Take water out of the equation and what is the diffference??????


fish dont have legs or eat grass


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

markhill said:


> fish dont have legs or eat grass


Your skills at debating are far beyond mine. I have no retort!


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Barlow said:


> And for those against feeding live rodents but are ok with feeding live inverts, you're just like the veggies who eat fish.


Can I just say that I don't have anything against feeding live rodents if it is absolutely necessary to the survival of the animal in question. If done for a cheap thrill then I'm afraid I'm a little less understanding 
However...
With regards to the above comment, I believe there has been evidence to support that an invert does not process pain or fear in a way that a vertebrate like a mouse does. They don't 'feel' as much, as it were... :2thumb: So we can't really compare the two!


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Barlow said:


> Your skills at debating are far beyond mine. I have no retort!


Its called humour:bash:

Back to the point, I actually thought the same as you wrote and I see no difference as to how fish is not meat.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Pirate7 said:


> *FOR ALL THOES QUOTED BELOW READ THIS, IT WILL CLEAR EVERYTHING UP!!!!!!!!
> *_It is *NOT* illegal to feed live vertebrates. _
> *http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/69279-live-feeding-laws.html*
> 
> ^^ Maybe that should be a sticky to stop threads like this?!


Hey...don't quote me in that.....I said it wasn't illegal: victory:


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Can I just say that I don't have anything against feeding live rodents if it is absolutely necessary to the survival of the animal in question. If done for a cheap thrill then I'm afraid I'm a little less understanding
> However...
> With regards to the above comment, I believe there has been evidence to support that an invert does not process pain or fear in a way that a vertebrate like a mouse does. They don't 'feel' as much, as it were... :2thumb: So we can't really compare the two!


One of the "thrills" of keeping reptiles is seeing how they are evolutionary adapted to killng and consuming their prey. Whether that is a cricket, locust, roach or rodent makes no difference at all. The only difference is a human beings so called sympathy to the prey. Pain or no pain, is it ok to unnaturally euthenase rodents so we can feed them to our reptiles, or have not our reptiles evolved to do that for themselves? If that tears you up then keep a god damn rabbit!


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## mac101 (Apr 27, 2010)

Live feeding is not illegal anywhere in UK law..... HOWEVER it is illegal to cause stress to an animal without undue cause (animal welfare act)..... live feeding to an animal that doesnt require live feeding to survive MAY be classed as this.


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

mac101 said:


> Live feeding is not illegal anywhere in UK law..... HOWEVER it is illegal to cause stress to an animal without undue cause (animal welfare act)..... live feeding to an animal that doesnt require live feeding to survive MAY be classed as this.


 
Read the whole thread then comment.; This is nothing new!


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## Pirate7 (Apr 7, 2008)

andy007 said:


> Hey...don't quote me in that.....I said it wasn't illegal: victory:


Sorry buddy, i was on a megaquote task, cant edit my post anymoree.... sorry again mate!! :2thumb:: victory:


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Pirate7 said:


> Sorry buddy, i was on a megaquote task, cant edit my post anymoree.... sorry again mate!! :2thumb:: victory:


No probs:2thumb:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

No...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

if it's illegal... so what?

be an outlaw!:2thumb:


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

i did comment and then realsied it had been covered in previous replies and i dont know how to remove post!! sorry


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