# American Pitbull Terrier



## nocturnalbynature

I know they're ban over here but is there no way of owning one? i mean people keep all sorts of venomous animals and other dangerous animals so why can't you own a pitbull with a licence? Pitbulls are no more dangerous than any other large dog


----------



## Owzy46

Don't know anything about dogs, is there not a section on here?

The only reason I can think of is there must have been more attacks from them over other big dogs, mabie they are more aggresive?


----------



## Colosseum

Unfortunatly theres not unless you brake the law which i dont recommend at all i know people that keep them in remote lockups but really what quality of life does it have, these dogs are bred for one one reason im sure you know the reason.

Get a Rottweiler mate

Welcome to the forum :welcome:


----------



## nocturnalbynature

no i wouldn't say they are more agressive tbh.. i think its more the fact chavtastic people had them to give them that hard as f%ck image and using them to attack people...there was a story not long ago where two lads had set their 'pitbull' on someone..yet later on they found out it wasn't actually a pitbull it was a staff! my dad thinks every stocky dog is a pitbull and im thinking alot of people are the same which has given it the sh!te name it has today. i wont say it couldn't be dangerous in the wrong hands...but so can alot of things... faaaarrr to many to list but im sure you all know what they are


----------



## RasperAndy

most pit bull attacks are not actually pit bulls, they are cross breeds of several other dogs, and they just say "pit bull type"

a dogs actions, is a result of its owners 

raise a dog correctly and you have no problems,

they are on the band list as a result of attacks, when people don't really no exactly what type of dog it is, including police, and media, they are to quick to judge.

the band four

1. pitt bull
2. japenese tosa
3. dogo argentina
4. fila bandenerio

(thats of the top of head, please someone correct me i'f i'm wrong)


----------



## nocturnalbynature

RasperAndy said:


> most pit bull attacks are not actually pit bulls, they are cross breeds of several other dogs, and they just say "pit bull type"
> 
> a dogs actions, is a result of its owners
> 
> raise a dog correctly and you have no problems,
> 
> they are on the band list as a result of attacks, when people don't really no exactly what type of dog it is, including police, and media, they are to quick to judge.
> 
> the band four
> 
> 1. pitt bull
> 2. japenese tosa
> 3. dogo argentina
> 4. fila bandenerio
> 
> (thats of the top of head, please someone correct me i'f i'm wrong)


 damn straight! :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## GazEmm

I dont always agree with the chav owners bit...you need to remember these dogs have been bred for generations and generations for fighting. Of course you do get a lot of bad owners and this doesnt help with their reputation but at the end of the day they have it in them to attack and kill.

Its the same with any trait withing pedigree dogs, for example ive always wanted a border collie but its bred into them to work and unless you can provide them with enough stimulation then they will not be happy and likely wreck your house!!

All im getting at is they are very dangerous as far as dogs go, whether this justifies them being banned im not sure. A license would be the way to go i think if anything...certainly dont simply un-ban them otherwise the chav situation would swing into effect.


----------



## RasperAndy

but most "bull" breeds were bred for bull baiting, bear fighting, boar hunting, and hurding other large ainimals, they were not bred to attack people, they were raised to be friendly around people and trust worthy of its owner as a protector, espically children

how times have changed,


----------



## nocturnalbynature

GazEmm said:


> I dont always agree with the chav owners bit...you need to remember these dogs have been bred for generations and generations for fighting. Of course you do get a lot of bad owners and this doesnt help with their reputation but at the end of the day they have it in them to attack and kill.
> 
> Its the same with any trait withing pedigree dogs, for example ive always wanted a border collie but its bred into them to work and unless you can provide them with enough stimulation then they will not be happy and likely wreck your house!!
> 
> All im getting at is they are very dangerous as far as dogs go, whether this justifies them being banned im not sure. A license would be the way to go i think if anything...certainly dont simply un-ban them otherwise the chav situation would swing into effect.


i see what your saying there i suppose.. i just think that alot of animals have it in them to be dangerous but treat them with love and respect and you get a good dog for life but if you teach it to bark, chase and attack people then its the owner.. nearly every chav in my area has some rottie or staff that will attack on command and maybe if a pitbull attacks it'll do so to kill but so would alot of animals..most infact


----------



## georgieabc123

you can but it must go though behaving test and it must be muzzled in public and tatooed and you must have a licence i think :blush:


----------



## GazEmm

You need to remember mind things that get banned or put on the DWA list have the potential to be dangerous. In general they might be totally docile around humans but they have it in them to snap and do some serious damage.

The owner plays a huge part in their attitude dont get me wrong, and there will be a right way and a wrong way to raise them. However, even bringing up a dog in the right way doesnt guarantee you will never get into a situation where they will react in a way they shouldnt.

I'll be totally honest mind and admit i know very little about dogs im just trying to use a bit of common sence. But the way i see it is due to their large size and potential to do a LOT more damage than most other dogs has resulted in them being banned.


----------



## Marinam2

georgieabc123 said:


> you can but it must go though behaving test and it must be muzzled in public and tatooed and you must have a licence i think :blush:


Nope that was put in place for owners of pit bulls that was already legally in the country to save them from being destroyed after the ban!

----------

I am sorry you are right there are no dangerous breeds but there is NO legal way of getting a pit bull anymore. They are completely illegal to own. All the pit bulls that were in this country legally before the ban had restrictions put on them and were forced to neuter so there is no legal breeding in this country.

Marina


----------



## GazEmm

I think i saw a program before and if i remember right you can technically own one in the UK. However, in order to do so its like someone else just said...they need to be registered with the local police and vets, tattoo'd, wear mussle in public AND be snipped.

It's all a con really as if you do all of the above (in particular getting them snipped) then they will eventually die out in this country so you got no chance of getting a puppy legally.

EDIT - Well this was right when i saw the program, not anymore it appears :lol2:


----------



## SiUK

RasperAndy said:


> most pit bull attacks are not actually pit bulls, they are cross breeds of several other dogs, and they just say "pit bull type"
> 
> a dogs actions, is a result of its owners
> 
> raise a dog correctly and you have no problems,
> 
> they are on the band list as a result of attacks, when people don't really no exactly what type of dog it is, including police, and media, they are to quick to judge.
> 
> the band four
> 
> 1. pitt bull
> 2. japenese tosa
> 3. dogo argentina
> 4. fila bandenerio
> 
> (thats of the top of head, please someone correct me i'f i'm wrong)


there was a dogo argentino openly being sold on preloved the other day, said it was imported to the UK from Hungary.


----------



## nocturnalbynature

GazEmm said:


> You need to remember mind things that get banned or put on the DWA list have the potential to be dangerous. In general they might be totally docile around humans but they have it in them to snap and do some serious damage.
> 
> The owner plays a huge part in their attitude dont get me wrong, and there will be a right way and a wrong way to raise them. However, even bringing up a dog in the right way doesnt guarantee you will never get into a situation where they will react in a way they shouldnt.
> 
> I'll be totally honest mind and admit i know very little about dogs im just trying to use a bit of common sence. But the way i see it is due to their large size and potential to do a LOT more damage than most other dogs has resulted in them being banned.


so that includes venomous snakes and such? so why can you have alicence for them but not for a pitbull?? if muzzled outside and properly trained i don't see why not? yes then theres a danger you could be attacked in your home by your own pet but i think your more likely to be bitten by a venomous snake or something like that as you can't really tame a venomous snake and even if you could i'd rather take my chances with a pitbull anyday


----------



## RasperAndy

SiUK said:


> there was a dogo argentino openly being sold on preloved the other day, said it was imported to the UK from Hungary.


i might have it wrong then, i thought they were 1 of the 4 band, will look into it later,


----------



## GazEmm

nocturnalbynature said:


> so that includes venomous snakes and such? so why can you have alicence for them but not for a pitbull?? if muzzled outside and properly trained i don't see why not? yes then theres a danger you could be attacked in your home by your own pet but i think your more likely to be bitten by a venomous snake or something like that as you can't really tame a venomous snake and even if you could i'd rather take my chances with a pitbull anyday


Oh yeah, ive never agreed with the ban and in my first post said a license would be the way to go.

However, in answer to this, im guessing the thinking is that a venemous snake has to be proved to be totally secure and locked away. Plus interaction with a snake is very limited and therefore the chance of attack on the keeper and particualry the public is extremely low.

You cant lock a dog up 24/7 in a cage and so it is far more likely for a dog to have the opportunity to attack.


----------



## SiUK

RasperAndy said:


> i might have it wrong then, i thought they were 1 of the 4 band, will look into it later,


no your right mate they are on the list


----------



## nocturnalbynature

btw i love venomous snakes lol im just using them as an example because its the only one i have! lol.. yeah i understand that but i honestly don't think its looking for a chance to attack you i think if your attacked by your pet your doing something wrong.. im not saying its never happened but its alot less likely than an attack from venomous animals or even if someone kept say a caiman! i see your point about its a locked viv and the snakes cant escape but changing water and feeding and general cleaning up poo and stuff gives them plenty of chances


----------



## Andy

Marinam2 said:


> Nope that was put in place for owners of pit bulls that was already legally in the country to save them from being destroyed after the ban!
> 
> ----------
> 
> I am sorry you are right there are no dangerous breeds but there is NO legal way of getting a pit bull anymore. They are completely illegal to own. All the pit bulls that were in this country legally before the ban had restrictions put on them and were forced to neuter so there is no legal breeding in this country.
> 
> Marina



Since there are no pedigree Pit Bulls in the UK anymore the ban covers 'Pit Bull type' dogs so that can cover lots of breeds and crosses. You can legally own a 'Pit Bull type' dog now but it will have to be classed as Exempt from the DDA which you can still do. You will invariably face a court case and have to prove the dog is not dangeroous usually by having undertaken obedience classes, neutered, muzzled in public,chipped etc etc.


----------



## RasperAndy

SiUK said:


> no your right mate they are on the list


someone on preloved being naughty then, :lol2:

cheers matey


----------



## GazEmm

It is all silly, im just trying to think of what the reasoning could be for it...at the end of the day you can keep a lion if you go about it correctly so why not a dog?!


----------



## ern79

RasperAndy said:


> most pit bull attacks are not actually pit bulls, they are cross breeds of several other dogs, and they just say "pit bull type"
> 
> a dogs actions, is a result of its owners
> 
> raise a dog correctly and you have no problems,
> 
> they are on the band list as a result of attacks, when people don't really no exactly what type of dog it is, including police, and media, they are to quick to judge.
> 
> the band four
> 
> 1. pitt bull
> 2. japenese tosa
> 3. dogo argentina
> 4. fila bandenerio
> 
> (thats of the top of head, please someone correct me i'f i'm wrong)


almost correct, no 4. is fila de brasiliero


----------



## nocturnalbynature

GazEmm said:


> It is all silly, im just trying to think of what the reasoning could be for it...at the end of the day you can keep a lion if you go about it correctly so why not a dog?!


 
lmao see THATS the example i should have used...well done...:notworthy:


----------



## RasperAndy

ern79 said:


> almost correct, no 4. is fila de brasiliero


thats the one, my spelling let me down there, 

cheers mate : victory:

not bad off the top of my head though :lol2:


----------



## georgieabc123

Marinam2 said:


> Nope that was put in place for owners of pit bulls that was already legally in the country to save them from being destroyed after the ban!
> 
> ----------
> 
> I am sorry you are right there are no dangerous breeds but there is NO legal way of getting a pit bull anymore. They are completely illegal to own. All the pit bulls that were in this country legally before the ban had restrictions put on them and were forced to neuter so there is no legal breeding in this country.
> 
> Marina


oooh ok that was a good idea i hope they do the same for rottis if they do get baned ....witch they shouldent bad owners should get banned ffor owning dogs maybe evan allpets :bash:


----------



## nocturnalbynature

georgieabc123 said:


> oooh ok that was a good idea i hope they do the same for rottis if they do get baned ....*witch they shouldent bad owners should get banned ffor owning dogs maybe evan allpets* :bash:


it probably will they seem to have done it with the pitbull


----------



## ern79

GazEmm said:


> .you need to remember these dogs have been bred for generations and generations for fighting. at the end of the day they have it in them to attack and kill.


They were bred for generations to fight other dogs, not people, a well bred fighting dog is designed to have a good disposition and be loyal to its owner, during dog fights a referee would be present in the ring, also fighters would wash their opponents dog before a fight to ensure no poison was added to the coat, if these dogs were indescriminate man biters, who would go in the ring to ref and who would want to handle so closely a strange dog.
The problems are that these dogs if well bred are fiercely loyal and if its their masters bidding to attack people then they will do whats excpected of them, the other problem is that these dogs have been bred and bred by idiots who dont understand the breed and instead of breeding for sound temperament, they have indescrimanately churned out pup after pup without selecting for desireable traits and allowing human aggressive dogs to proliferate.
As much as i am disgusted with dog fighting, i will add that in dog fighting circles, a human aggressive dog is viewed as flawed, this is not what they were bred for!
lets look at another breed of dog, the bull mastiff, it was bred as a game keepers dog and one of its primary functions was to sieze and hold poachers, if there ever was a breed of dog that in theory people should be afraid of, this is it. Please, i have nothing against this breed, im just trying to illustrate that people have these preconceived ideas about a particular breed and the purpose they have been bred for. Fighting dogs were bred to fight dogs, not people.


----------



## ern79

RasperAndy said:


> thats the one, my spelling let me down there,
> 
> cheers mate : victory:
> 
> not bad off the top of my head though :lol2:


im a bit of an anorack, the DDA is a particular interest of mine.


----------



## georgieabc123

nocturnalbynature said:


> it probably will they seem to have done it with the pitbull


noo not my mad max hes my baby


----------



## RasperAndy

ern79 said:


> They were bred for generations to fight other dogs, not people, a well bred fighting dog is designed to have a good disposition and be loyal to its owner, during dog fights a referee would be present in the ring, also fighters would wash their opponents dog before a fight to ensure no poison was added to the coat, if these dogs were indescriminate man biters, who would go in the ring to ref and who would want to handle so closely a strange dog.
> The problems are that these dogs if well bred are fiercely loyal and if its their masters bidding to attack people then they will do whats excpected of them, the other problem is that these dogs have been bred and bred by idiots who dont understand the breed and instead of breeding for sound temperament, they have indescrimanately churned out pup after pup without selecting for desireable traits and allowing human aggressive dogs to proliferate.
> As much as i am disgusted with dog fighting, i will add that in dog fighting circles, a human aggressive dog is viewed as flawed, this is not what they were bred for!
> lets look at another breed of dog, the bull mastiff, it was bred as a game keepers dog and one of its primary functions was to sieze and hold poachers, if there ever was a breed of dog that in theory people should be afraid of, this is it. Please, i have nothing against this breed, im just trying to illustrate that people have these preconceived ideas about a particular breed and the purpose they have been bred for. Fighting dogs were bred to fight dogs, not people.





ern79 said:


> im a bit of an anorack, the DDA is a particular interest of mine.


 
thats what i tried to say a few pages ago, but you said it better

nice one


----------



## Andy

ern79 said:


> They were bred for generations to fight other dogs, not people, a well bred fighting dog is designed to have a good disposition and be loyal to its owner, during dog fights a referee would be present in the ring, also fighters would wash their opponents dog before a fight to ensure no poison was added to the coat, if these dogs were indescriminate man biters, who would go in the ring to ref and who would want to handle so closely a strange dog.
> The problems are that these dogs if well bred are fiercely loyal and if its their masters bidding to attack people then they will do whats excpected of them, the other problem is that these dogs have been bred and bred by idiots who dont understand the breed and instead of breeding for sound temperament, they have indescrimanately churned out pup after pup without selecting for desireable traits and allowing human aggressive dogs to proliferate.
> As much as i am disgusted with dog fighting, i will add that in dog fighting circles, a human aggressive dog is viewed as flawed, this is not what they were bred for!
> lets look at another breed of dog, the bull mastiff, it was bred as a game keepers dog and one of its primary functions was to sieze and hold poachers, if there ever was a breed of dog that in theory people should be afraid of, this is it. Please, i have nothing against this breed, im just trying to illustrate that people have these preconceived ideas about a particular breed and the purpose they have been bred for. Fighting dogs were bred to fight dogs, not people.


I think thats what people fail to understand about dogs that were bred to fight other dogs.

Like Staffies. Without getting into too much detail when Staffordshire Bull Terriers were being bred in the early days of the breed to fight they were being kept by working class men who were quite poor so didn't have a nice kennel out the back for the dog the dog lived and slept in the house with the family, including children. If the Staff showed any human aggression at all it would be destroyed. You just couldn't have a dog that was likely to bite a human living in the house. This responsible breeding meant that the Staffy evolved into a dog that was particularly good with children hence the nick name the Nanny dog. Unfortunately nowadays with indiscriminate breeding by every mug with a Staffy that trait is being slowly lost as people dont care about temperament when breeding just abou the money.

If people are interested in the origins of the SBT and fighting dogs read Celebrating Staffords by Steve Stone Celebrating Staffordshire Bull Terriers by Steve Stone


----------



## ern79

RasperAndy said:


> thats what i tried to say a few pages ago, but you said it better
> 
> nice one


thanks, it just bugs me about what people THINK is the truth rather than relying on facts.
If anyone saw the panorama documentary, which incidentally almost reduced me to tears, put me off my tea and made me styruggle to sleep, the most telling statement of the programme was where the guys were dicussing Dunkeln a breeder/fighter,dogs, the guy said " you know whats the worst thing about dunkelns dogs? , they are man biters!" 
For someone who fights dogs to make this statement, i feel it says a lot.


----------



## 9Red

I spent the summer of '05 in sole charge of a friends American Pitbull while he busy with family issues. He was imported from Ireland (on the sly obviously) where he had been bred from purebred dogs brought over from the states.

'Woodstock' was and still is one of the loveliest and most fun dogs I have ever looked after - even when he accidently cut his paw pad on a peice of wire and I had to clean it up he was good as gold. He was also very well behaved with children, a quick learner and keen to please. He really was one of those dogs that just wants to be everyones best mate.

Being aware of the legal status surrounding the American Pitbull breed in this country, he was always decribed as 'American Staff' to anyone that asked. The only negative thing about this dog was that he was overly playful to the point of aggression with other dogs, and for that sake was always muzzled when out and about. 

I am not a chav - I am a veterinary scientist, and having worked in animal breeding and behaviour I believe the DD Act needs some serious revision. I remember clearly one occasion where a litter of six healthy, squeaky four day old puppies was brought in to be euthanased by the police because they were half-pitbull. We refused, but found out later that day that the litter had been dystroyed by another practice in the area. I cannot agree with a law that demands the euthanasia of animals simply because they carry the 'wrong' genes. 

In an ideal world such laws and policies would be written by people that know something about the subject, not by scared politicians reacting to the demands of a misinformed public. All dogs have the ability to inflict horrific bites regardless of their breed - my worst bite was from a golden retriever, and how many of those are there in this country that are allowed to play unsupervised with young children? My neice was bitten in the face by a collie - it narrowly missed taking out her eye by just a few milimeters. Dogs are pack animals and require strict but fair discipline in order for us as owners to influence their behaviour. If a dog is brought up to be vicious it will be, whether is it a pitbull, poodle or anything else.


----------



## ern79

Andy said:


> I think thats what people fail to understand about dogs that were bred to fight other dogs.
> 
> Like Staffies. Without getting into too much detail when Staffordshire Bull Terriers were being bred in the early days of the breed to fight they were being kept by working class men who were quite poor so didn't have a nice kennel out the back for the dog the dog lived and slept in the house with the family, including children. If the Staff showed any human aggression at all it would be destroyed. You just couldn't have a dog that was likely to bite a human living in the house. This responsible breeding meant that the Staffy evolved into a dog that was particularly good with children hence the nick name the Nanny dog. Unfortunately nowadays with indiscriminate breeding by every mug with a Staffy that trait is being slowly lost as people dont care about temperament when breeding just abou the money.
> 
> If people are interested in the origins of the SBT and fighting dogs read Celebrating Staffords by Steve Stone Celebrating Staffordshire Bull Terriers by Steve Stone


spot on, they were also viwed as a commodity and would often change hands many times, they had to be sound with different people.


----------



## gazz

nocturnalbynature said:


> I know they're ban over here but is there no way of owning one? i mean people keep all sorts of venomous animals and other dangerous animals so why can't you own a pitbull with a licence? Pitbulls are no more dangerous than any other large dog


What's wrong with good old uk breeds ? staffordshire bull terrier,English bull terrier'etc ??.I've got nothing agenst Am-pitbulls coz as far as i'm concerned a dog is a dog and they are what YOU! make them to be.But the powers that be have made it a lot of hassel to own one if at all possible(i don't think it is now ?).But last thing i herd was they had to be mico chip,tatooed ?,spayed,castrated,muzzed in public,always leashed'etc'etc.Look in the classifilds ads there quite a few Amstaff's about the uk.And no for those that say a Amstaff is a Pitbull.There not as a Amstaff was never created for fighting they was created for showing.USA have there own terrier types and bull types and these was used to create Pitbull amoung others.And UK have there own terrier types and bull types and these was used to Staffordshire bull terrier amoung others.Then migrants from the UK took there staffordshire bull terriers to the USA and breed them with to the Pitbull then the Amstaff was born.And there prime purpose was the show ring.Coz people didn't want regular Pitbull in the show ring.

Anyway look into Amstaffs there's quite a few in the adds That have been ship over with papers'etc.So if they was illegal how did they get through ?.

There's some uk based ones in this link.
UK American Staffordshire Terrier Puppies


----------



## rakpeterson

gazz said:


> What's wrong with good old uk breeds ? staffordshire bull terrier,English bull terrier'etc ??.I've got nothing agenst Am-pitbulls coz as far as i'm concerned a dog is a dog and they are what YOU! make them to be.But the powers that be have made it a lot of hassel to own one if at all possible(i don't think it is now ?).But last thing i herd was they had to be mico chip,tatooed ?,spayed,castrated,muzzed in public,always leashed'etc'etc.Look in the classifilds ads there quite a few Amstaff's about the uk.And no for those that say a Amstaff is a Pitbull.There not as a Amstaff was never created for fighting they was created for showing.USA have there own terrier types and bull types and these was used to create Pitbull amoung others.And UK have there own terrier types and bull types and these was used to Staffordshire bull terrier amoung others.Then migrants from the UK took there staffordshire bull terriers to the USA and breed them with to the Pitbull then the Amstaff was born.And there prime purpose was the show ring.Coz people didn't want regular Pitbull in the show ring.
> 
> Anyway look into Amstaffs there's quite a few in the adds That have been ship over with papers'etc.So if they was illegal how did they get through ?.
> 
> There's some uk based ones in this link.
> UK American Staffordshire Terrier Puppies


AM staff's arent illegal, there not the same as a pitbull, and could possibly be argued on type, but as a breed they are legal and different to a pit.


----------



## Nebbz

urm i think you can rehome a pit bull but you cant get new born puppies now...or shouldnt as no longer alowed to breed. i know a couple of people who own pit bulls but they are for ever worried, and have to keep strict rules for the dogs. one is a mix with a staffy but he is VERY powerful and i couldnt trust it with a barge pole (but thats cus of the owner! hes a dick)

why a pitbull may i ask?

i know mixes are still around but why not a staffy? there very good dogs, wonderful companions and great with kids!

also staffys may be bull terriers but they are not Pits and very different in many ways. when you put the two together this is when you notice the differences. pictures below may help work out the differences 
Pit bull terrier note the powerful chest and hind legs but much taller. The head is alot of the time very different also i feel the picture below is a good candidate as this lad doesnt seem to be set up for fighting! (lacking in the usual wide neck)








Staffordshire bull terrier; note the short bulky legs, wide chest, heavy head.









edit: i also think its a shame the pittbull breed will dissapear due to idiots getting hold of them as i think they are very beautiful and powerful and very well proportioned muscle wise, head and neck wise.

utter shame!


----------



## ichis-mom

nocturnalbynature said:


> I know they're ban over here but is there no way of owning one? i mean people keep all sorts of venomous animals and other dangerous animals so why can't you own a pitbull with a licence? Pitbulls are no more dangerous than any other large dog


they are legal to keep (i think) as long as it is neuterd/spayed and kept muzzeld in public such a sham cos a lovley breed and can be so soft


----------



## gazz

This is infact a AMSTAFF.










True pitbull terriers have a totally differant shape.There longer legged,thiner but muscular.IMO they resemble hounds in build.









































Then there is ofcourse pitbulls/pitdogs that are mix bull and bullterrier type breed.That are often miss ID'd as pitbull terriers and Amstaffs.


----------



## Alpha Dog

Injection said:


> these dogs are bred for one one reason im sure you know the reason.


Pits are misunderstood, they are not just bred for fighting as you suggested.


----------



## GazEmm

ern79 said:


> ...the other problem is that these dogs have been bred and bred by idiots who dont understand the breed and instead of breeding for sound temperament, they have indescrimanately churned out pup after pup without selecting for desireable traits and allowing human aggressive dogs to proliferate.
> ...


I have taken the bit from your quote what i was getting at. I know nothing about the origins of dog fighting and so i dont doubt you for a second...but at the end of the day and in the real world it appears less and less care has been taken and im guessing the further underground it went/goes the less care is taken for the animals and thus ending up in them being far more aggressive to humans than originally intended.

I vaguely remember seeing a programme on it a long time ago and it was just like you see in the films...dogs locked in small cages and wound up pre-fight by people with sticks and the likes. I'm not against fighting dogs and I have a staffy so please dont get me wrong...im not anti-fighting dog like the press seem to be i've just been trying to point out all along that they have the potential to be far more dangerous than some other dogs which has resulted in them being banned!!


----------



## marthaMoo

I dont like the term "Fighting dog" I dont own a fighting breed, I own Staffies.
No dog is born to fight, a dog is mainly what you make it, bad breeding aside, although you need to know your breed and be the right home for that dog.

APBT's werent banned because there dangerous, they were banned because most of the people owning them were dangerous with them. Although I love my Bull Breeds and have worked with them for a number of years I am sick of seeing abused and neglected dogs. There is no other breed who is as badly abused as them. And for that reason I am happy with the ban on APBT and would be happy if all Bull Breeds had to be registered, chipped and neutered to try and stop the wrong people from owning them and try to help control the amount of unwanted Bull Breeds in this country.

There are very few true APBT's in this country, I know of 2 or 3, there are allot of dogs that are type due to idiots breeding different breeds together to try and make them look like something there not.


----------



## lenemily

marthaMoo said:


> I dont like the term "Fighting dog" I dont own a fighting breed, I own Staffies.
> No dog is born to fight, a dog is mainly what you make it, bad breeding aside, although you need to know your breed and be the right home for that dog.
> 
> APBT's werent banned because there dangerous, they were banned because most of the people owning them were dangerous with them. Although I love my Bull Breeds and have worked with them for a number of years I am sick of seeing abused and neglected dogs. There is no other breed who is as badly abused as them. And for that reason I am happy with the ban on APBT and would be happy if all Bull Breeds had to be registered, chipped and neutered to try and stop the wrong people from owning them and try to help control the amount of unwanted Bull Breeds in this country.
> 
> There are very few true APBT's in this country, I know of 2 or 3, there are allot of dogs that are type due to idiots breeding different breeds together to try and make them look like something there not.


God Bless You !!! 
Bullys are my most favorite breed im owned by 2 lovely bullys 
one is a staff x PBT and is absolute darling a little nutty but a fantastic _FAMILY_ dog 
and to the origional poster why not look into a rescue ? so many lovely bullys need homes due to the :censor: that own and breed them 
both of mine are rescues and wouldnt change them for the world
i had trouble finding a vet willing to take the staffy x on due to her looks and also get alot of nasty comments when walking her but thats just peoples opinions on this dangerous dog .... shame they dont see her cuddled up to the kids and ferret :whistling2:
I think having a licence is the way to go with the dangerous dogs act but then again how many back street breeders will continue to dish them out to the wanna be gangster out there 










Who could resist those faces :flrt:


----------



## ern79

gazz said:


> This is infact a AMSTAFF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True pitbull terriers have a totally differant shape.There longer legged,thiner but muscular.IMO they resemble hounds in build.
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is ofcourse pitbulls/pitdogs that are mix bull and bullterrier type breed.That are often miss ID'd as pitbull terriers and Amstaffs.


spot on! that was my immediate feeling on seeing this dog, way too thick set, this just goes to show how little people know about these dogs, they have a picture in their head of what a pitbull actually looks like but if you put a montage of photos up, i bet they would pick something other than a pit most times. I would say that this is an absolutely stunning dog, i would love to own him!!


----------



## rotty

spot the pit bull

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


----------



## beardedlady

i have done that spot the pit b4 an found it very interesting as people have already said they have a image in there head an 9 times outta 10 its nothing like the original pit . They are beautiful looking dogs an its a shame they are illegal.


----------



## ern79

i have to put my money where my mouth is, its a very difficultchoice, theres a few possibles but im going to go for 16


----------



## ern79

ern79 said:


> i have to put my money where my mouth is, its a very difficultchoice, theres a few possibles but im going to go for 16


oh yes, just realised you can click on the dogs, i was right:no1::no1::no1:


----------



## Mish

GazEmm said:


> It is all silly, im just trying to think of what the reasoning could be for it...at the end of the day you can keep a lion if you go about it correctly so why not a dog?!


Could you expand on how I could keep a lion by 'going about it correctly?'

Stating the obvious here, but I think the assuption is that a lion is going to be kept securely in a cage where there is no chance of it ever having any direct contact with the public. Therefore, Im not sure I quite get the comparison, a dog could not possibly be kept in this manner and have a good quality of life. 

Out of interest, what is the attraction of owning a pit-bull anyway? Personally, it would make me sad if my dogs had to wear muzzles and be forever leashed in public, even if I knew they were harmless. But thats just my opinion.


----------



## daikenkai

Picked the pit first time. Was about the least vicious looking one on the page :lol2:
Theyre definately beautiful dogs and can be brilliant if in the right hands. But thats the problem. They werent in the right hands 9 out of 10 times. 
Same with Staffies unfortunately. Every dog that has attacked mine around here has been a Staffie OR a Jack Russel. 
Guess what breed nearly took 2 of my fingers off when i was a kid? Thats right, the feckin Jack Russel! :devil:


----------



## fenwoman

georgieabc123 said:


> you can but it must go though behaving test and it must be muzzled in public and tatooed and you must have a licence i think :blush:


You cannot. Not only were they made illegal about 20 years ago but it bcame illegal to breed them, sell them, give them away.


----------



## Andy

fenwoman said:


> You cannot. Not only were they made illegal about 20 years ago but it bcame illegal to breed them, sell them, give them away.


You can own a 'pitbull type' dog legally.


----------



## marthaMoo

You can only own APBT types if it goes through the court system and they deem it to be a good natured animal, and you the owner to be responsable. The dog is then placed on the register, neutered, tattooed, and has to wear a muzzle in public at all times.

That doesnt mean you can just go out and get one and think you can get it placed on the register, because you cant, the register isnt open for just anyone to register there dog. It can only be regisitered by you placing your dog in there hands, you may never get your dog back. And your dog may have to sit in holding kennels for sometime before they decide what will happen to it.

I dont see why anyone would knowingly want to take the risk, but yet there are still people wanting these dogs and trying to get hold of them, whilst putting the animals life at risk.


----------



## Andy

marthaMoo said:


> You can only own APBT types if it goes through the court system and they deem it to be a good natured animal, and you the owner to be responsable. The dog is then placed on the register, neutered, tattooed, and has to wear a muzzle in public at all times.
> 
> That doesnt mean you can just go out and get one and think you can get it placed on the register, because you cant, the register isnt open for just anyone to register there dog. It can only be regisitered by you placing your dog in there hands, you may never get your dog back. And your dog may have to sit in holding kennels for sometime before they decide what will happen to it.
> 
> I dont see why anyone would knowingly want to take the risk, but yet there are still people wanting these dogs and trying to get hold of them, whilst putting the animals life at risk.


I never said it was easy but it does happen. some people dont hav =e a choice they buy a nice little puppy and it grows into pitbull type and the they have it seized. The authorities try and get them to sign it over to be destroyed without the owners realising they can fight for the dog and keep it. Like those horrible Pitbull amnesties in Liverpool. Loads of family dogs who had never shown any aggression in their lives killed out of ignorance.


----------



## fenwoman

nocturnalbynature said:


> so that includes venomous snakes and such? so why can you have alicence for them but not for a pitbull?? if muzzled outside and properly trained i don't see why not? yes then theres a danger you could be attacked in your home by your own pet but i think your more likely to be bitten by a venomous snake or something like that as you can't really tame a venomous snake and even if you could i'd rather take my chances with a pitbull anyday


 well you might get bitten in your home by your dangerous snake but nobody else will. If you had a pitbull you would presumably have to take it outside your property to where it potentially could kill a child as so many of the breed have done all over the world. Personally, with so many breeds of dogs which you could own legally, I wonder what it is about the pitbull which attracts you as you don't seem to understand they potential for death with this and many other large breeds. The breed wasn't banned on a whim for no reason, it was because of the large percentage of deaths caused by the breed. You seem also to think that all breeds have the same temperament and as long as they are 'well trained' they will all be as calm and relaxed as spaniels. This is what worries me because when people like you get hold of these powerful breeds ytou seem blithely unaware of the potential for the dog causing major damage. Why is it that they are so succesful in America at killing other dogs in the pit? Some will argue that they are only aggressive with other dogs but this isn't the case, they seem unable to stop when they get fired up and if a human child gets in the way like the little girl in Liverpool a couple of years ago, then the police and ambulancemen have to go and scrape up the blood and bits of childs body from the room.
Unlike the staffordshire bull terrier which was bred to bait bull and had merely to be brave, the pitbull is a mishmash of all kinds of aggressive breeds, including our own staffy, which were adopted and taken back to the States at the end of the 2nd world war. They were bred solely to kill other dogs and they needed not bravery, but savagery and bloodlust. I'm sorry to all who think that they are sweet and nice and the law is mean and nasty. There might be nice individuals within the breed but as a whole, I'm happy they are banned and there are a few other breeds I'd like to see on the list too.


----------



## fenwoman

Andy said:


> You can own a 'pitbull type' dog legally.


The OP specifically asked about the pitbull terrier. Not the 'pitbull type'.


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA

Just get into the underworld 

Plenty of people round here are selling red nose pits.
Very nice dogs, and if in the right hands can be magnificent.. I love them to bits, there like a big staff.


----------



## Andy

fenwoman said:


> The OP specifically asked about the pitbull terrier. Not the 'pitbull type'.


Thats all there is now in the UK. No such thing as a pedigree Pitbull, they are all classed as 'type'.: victory:


----------



## lizardloverrach

you can have a apbt, you just have to have it microchipped, registered, and neutered/spayed.
they are great dogs generally, even with other dogs if bought up with them and well socialised.
it's usually the owners of these breeds that are kn:censor:ds, thats why the dogs are crazy! 
only problem is finding a decent one because obviously they not advertised!


----------



## gazz

fenwoman said:


> well you might get bitten in your home by your dangerous snake but nobody else will. If you had a pitbull you would presumably have to take it outside your property to where it potentially could kill a child as so many of the breed have done all over the world. Personally, with so many breeds of dogs which you could own legally, I wonder what it is about the pitbull which attracts you as you don't seem to understand they potential for death with this and many other large breeds. The breed wasn't banned on a whim for no reason, it was because of the large percentage of deaths caused by the breed. You seem also to think that all breeds have the same temperament and as long as they are 'well trained' they will all be as calm and relaxed as spaniels. This is what worries me because when people like you get hold of these powerful breeds ytou seem blithely unaware of the potential for the dog causing major damage. Why is it that they are so succesful in America at killing other dogs in the pit? Some will argue that they are only aggressive with other dogs but this isn't the case, they seem unable to stop when they get fired up and if a human child gets in the way like the little girl in Liverpool a couple of years ago, then the police and ambulancemen have to go and scrape up the blood and bits of childs body from the room.
> Unlike the staffordshire bull terrier which was bred to bait bull and had merely to be brave, the pitbull is a mishmash of all kinds of aggressive breeds, including our own staffy, which were adopted and taken back to the States at the end of the 2nd world war. They were bred solely to kill other dogs and they needed not bravery, but savagery and bloodlust. I'm sorry to all who think that they are sweet and nice and the law is mean and nasty. There might be nice individuals within the breed but as a whole, I'm happy they are banned and there are a few other breeds I'd like to see on the list too.


Escaped snakes are rarely found in the house/place they escaped from. In meny cases there found outside or in the house next door or near by.So if venomus they can be very dangerous.As a child is most likely just to pick it up.Shaffordshire bullterrier origin was a fighting dog.Bulldogs where for bear baiting'etc and not the poor examples that are about to day oldtime bulldogs was wat bigger with a better muzzel.Bullterriers breeds came after baiting wild animals become illegal but they was allowed to dog fight and ratting.Bullterriers are lovely dogs same goes for pitbull but there only down full is they are loyal to the owner and this is the main problem.Meny dog breed have attack people other animal.In USA there was a case that even the big friendly giant them self the Newfoundland went on the attack rampage.A dog is a dog they are what YOU! make them.Sadly it's knobs that have small pricks 9 times out of 10.That send them on a one way road to death row.



> The infamous locking jaw is a myth. The American Pit Bull Terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. All dogs are from the same species and none have locking jaws. Dr. I Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of 'pounds per square inch' can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." Furthermore, Dr. Brisbin states, "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier.While many Pit Bulls do tend to be aggressive towards other DOGS (as are most TERRIERS), the normal, well raised Pit Bull has NO human-aggressive tendencies! In fact, human-aggression was actually bred out of the breed. The majority of Pit Bulls are affectionate, intelligent, trainable dogs. In fact, the highest obedience trial record of all time is held by an American Pit Bull Terrier named Maddy.
> In fact, no breed of dog does. Dog aggression is nearly always preceded by some kind of warning, and there is always a reason behind the attack. However, many inexperienced owners do not recognize the dog's behavior as aggression, or refuse to acknowledge it as a warning sign. The only exception I can think of is Springer Rage, a rare and controversial neurological condition that manifests itself as a spontaneous attack, followed by confusion, and then a return to normal behavior. Pit Bulls are NOT prone to this condition. There are individual dogs of any breed that may be more aggressive to others.


Learn from experience not a shi:censor:y news paper trying to sell the most copys.


----------



## SiUK

gazz said:


> Escaped snakes are rarely found in the house/place they escaped from. In meny cases there found outside or in the house next door or near by.


just wondering where that statistic is from, not having a go, just interested?


----------



## gazz

SiUK said:


> just wondering where that statistic is from, not having a go, just interested?


I supose it more depends on the house structure but snakes are very good at escaping.And if you don't find them with in the first 24 hours.It's very doutbful that you'll find them in your house.I lost a western hognose about 7 year ago.Turned up about 2 months later BIGGER 3 doors down near there pond.There been a couple examples over the years and more often than not.There found next door or out side'etc with some one bagging on there door.I was making more the point that though there are guideline for getting a licance.A escaping venomus same turning up next door with no one knowing what it is.Is very possible though i not herd of a venomus escapie as of yet.But there has been large pythons and boas that can be dangerous to a small child.


----------



## Lynne

i watched a programme about these dogs once. and two had been let out to roam freely by thier owner, this was in usa, they chased an old womans cat. she opened the door to let her cat escape the two dogs and they forced thier way in and attacked her. imagine an old woman on the floor being attacked by two of these dogs. 
i have an american bulldog, and although she is a softy in the house, i would never take her for granted as being as soft when out. i dont think you can take any dog for granted really. you always must be alert.


----------



## rakpeterson

lizardloverrach said:


> you can have a apbt, you just have to have it microchipped, registered, and neutered/spayed.
> they are great dogs generally, even with other dogs if bought up with them and well socialised.
> it's usually the owners of these breeds that are kn:censor:ds, thats why the dogs are crazy!
> only problem is finding a decent one because obviously they not advertised!


For everyone saying you can have a Pit, you just have to have it chipped etc, etc......well thats very misleading information.

There is not one legal way to become a Pit owner, you must first break the law by obtaining the dog in the first place. If you then got found out (you cant just go to the nearest court or policestation and say '' I have a pit and would like to be considered for exemption to the dda''), the dog would be siezed and providing you didn't sign that destruction order they waved under your nose and fought for the dog, the decision would then go to the courts. The dog would undergo some very strict temprement testing, you would also be on trial to assess your ability and motive for owning the dog and a decision would be made. It is by no means a full gone conclusion that once the tests have been passed you'll be granted exemption, maybe the judge doesn't like pits, or you, maybe he's had a bad experience and doesnt see the need for you to keep the dog, its very rocky ground.


----------



## Andy

fenwoman said:


> well you might get bitten in your home by your dangerous snake but nobody else will. If you had a pitbull you would presumably have to take it outside your property to where it potentially could kill a child as so many of the breed have done all over the world. Personally, with so many breeds of dogs which you could own legally, I wonder what it is about the pitbull which attracts you as you don't seem to understand they potential for death with this and many other large breeds. The breed wasn't banned on a whim for no reason, it was because of the large percentage of deaths caused by the breed. You seem also to think that all breeds have the same temperament and as long as they are 'well trained'* they will all be as calm and relaxed as spaniels. *This is what worries me because when people like you get hold of these powerful breeds ytou seem blithely unaware of the potential for the dog causing major damage. Why is it that they are so succesful in America at killing other dogs in the pit? Some will argue that they are only aggressive with other dogs but this isn't the case, they seem unable to stop when they get fired up and if a human child gets in the way like the little girl in Liverpool a couple of years ago, then the police and ambulancemen have to go and scrape up the blood and bits of childs body from the room.
> Unlike the staffordshire bull terrier which was bred to bait bull and had merely to be brave, the pitbull is a mishmash of all kinds of aggressive breeds, including our own staffy, which were adopted and taken back to the States at the end of the 2nd world war. They were bred solely to kill other dogs and they needed not bravery, but savagery and bloodlust. I'm sorry to all who think that they are sweet and nice and the law is mean and nasty. There might be nice individuals within the breed but as a whole, I'm happy they are banned and there are a few other breeds I'd like to see on the list too.


Funny you should mention spaniels which are statistically the breed that bite the most causing people to need hospital attention.

You say you are happy the are banned but the ban obviously is a load of tosh. The ban came in years ago yet we have still had attacks by pitbulls reported in the press. The ban has not solved the problem its just driven the breed underground into the hands of criminals.


----------



## fenwoman

GazEmm said:


> It is all silly, im just trying to think of what the reasoning could be for it...at the end of the day you can keep a lion if you go about it correctly so why not a dog?!


 Because your lion wouldn't live in your house, with your family, be taken out on the streets for a walk, allowed to have a run in the park.


----------



## fenwoman

Andy said:


> Funny you should mention spaniels which are statistically the breed that bite the most causing people to need hospital attention.


 Which breed of spaniel. Data please.



> You say you are happy the are banned but the ban obviously is a load of tosh


 I said that?



> The ban came in years ago yet we have still had attacks by pitbulls reported in the press. The ban has not solved the problem its just driven the breed underground into the hands of criminals.


 Yes there are still pitbull attacks because there is a lack of policing and the authorities are thick. I mean we all know what pitbulls are called now don't we, and advertised all over the place. If the ban was to be a proper ban it should be rigourously enforced and every advert' for them (under the different names) should be followed up and the litters, parents etc removed and euthanased.
However I think the ban was brought in as a sop to the public. Another law which is unenforceable and brought in so that politicians can say "look, of course we care, we banned them didn't we?"


----------



## fenwoman

gazz said:


> .Shaffordshire bullterrier origin was a fighting dog.


 Staffordshire bull terriers were bred to fight bulls. Why do you imagine the name contains the word 'bull'? 


> Bulldogs where for bear baiting'


 So why aren't they called beardogs?
Again, used for baiting bulls. Do you know how bull baiting came about? Probably not since you think that 2 bull breeds were used for dog fighting and bear baiting. Well I'll tell you. In the olden days, it was thought that if you got the animals blood up and enraged it before killing it, the meat would taste better, so they set dogs on it to get it angry. Originally just any old curs which were usually killed or maimed by the beast. They someone, probably a nutter with sadistic tendencies, realised, he was getting his jollies watching animals in pain so he bred the best of the curs together to try and uimporve their bravery, nimbleness and a resistance to pain. Hence the bull breeds were developed. Originally to do a job and then to make a spectacle out of it.



> and not the poor examples that are about to day oldtime bulldogs was wat bigger with a better muzzel


 a modern bulldog would not be able to bait a bull. TYhey are physically incapable



> .Bullterriers breeds came after baiting wild animals become illegal but they was allowed to dog fight and ratting


 Bull terriers were always used to bait bulls, hence the word 'bull' in their name. You are talking a lot of it as you don't know their history. 



> Bullterriers are lovely dogs same goes for pitbull but there only down full is they are loyal to the owner and this is the main problem.


 The pitbull is a recently made up breed and their 'downfall' is that they have been proved to be not reliably steady, and have caused too many deaths all over the world, not only of children but other animals and adults too.Many of these so called 'loyal to their owner' pitbulls have killed their owners kids, and even savaged their owners too.



> Meny dog breed have attack people other animal.In USA there was a case that even the big friendly giant them self the Newfoundland went on the attack rampage.


I agree, any dog could bite. But how often have you heard of a newfie attacking or going on the rampage?Could you provide a link to the report of the Newfie attacking out of interest?



> A dog is a dog they are what YOU! make them


 You think? SO my chihuahuas could be sniffer dogs? My newfie cross could learn to herd sheep? A collie could learn to be a retrieving or pointing dog? Why do you think there are different breeds? They were developed to have certain traits to do a certain job.The pitbulls only job was to kill other dogs, unlike the staffy's job which was to bait bulls. The only reason the pitbull has the word in it's name is because of the fact that staffordshire bull terrier was used in the original crossings to try to form the breed. The word 'pit' has more relevance as to how the breed came about.




> Sadly it's knobs that have small pricks 9 times out of 10.That send them on a one way road to death row.


They don't help certainly, but sadly, nice, normal family people aren't the kind of people who would want a powerful aggressive breed as a family pet.
A friend of mine runs rescue kennels and if she advertises that she has staffies or rotties and the like available, she gets plenty of calls from barely literate tattooed numpties off the local rough council estate and only rarely does she get nice, normal sensible family people wanting them.





> Learn from experience not a shi:censor:y news paper trying to sell the most copys.


 What you mean like the 25+ years experience being involved in breeding, showing, grooming, training, rescue, and running an advice line? The only paper I read occasionally is the times or the independant. I wouldn't call either of them sh:censor:tty.


----------



## gazz

fenwoman said:


> I mean we all know what pitbulls are called now don't we, and advertised all over the place.


If that's a dig at Amstaff's they are NOT pitbull terriers.There is only one ture pitbull terrier and there not bully,stocky they are tall and lanky.Then there are Amstaff's that was created for the show ring created by staffordshire bull terrier CROSS pitbull terrier then refined to the desired look.Then there is the 'pitbull'/pitdogs/bullterriers these are dogs that are bulldog type and bullterrier type cross breeds and it's these are most likely involed in most attacks recorded.


----------



## Evie

Anyone considering owning a pit bull might be well advised to consider this:
A Labrador is bred to retrieve birds, if it isn't used as a gun dog, it is likely retrieve something else instead.
A Collie is bred to herd sheep, if it isn't used as a sheepdog it is likely to herd something else instead.
Pit bulls were bred to be aggressive towards other dogs,what do you think MIGHT happen if the dog has no outlet for its natural drives?

I don't agree with the banning of any breed, but I would welcome legislation which required anyone wanting to own a dog to have to receive training. The level of training could depend (for example) on the weight of the dog they wished to own.
It would cut out the idiots who get a dog on a whim if they had to jump through a few hoops first.


----------



## gazz

> Staffordshire bull terriers were bred to fight bulls. Why do you imagine the name contains the word 'bull'?


They are called BULL terrier coz they created by cross BULLdogs with terrier breeds-AKA-Bull & terrier/bullterrier.

Bulldog that looked noothing like they do today was found to be a bit to heavy and slow for dog to dog combat.And fight didn't last long enought for human so called enterainment.

Bulldogs was use for baiting the undershot jaw let them breath whiles hanging on the there target game.

I'm sure that bullterrier was use in the odd baiting but they would be nothing compaired to a pure bulldog due to not have a under shot jaw bullterrier would need to brake off the breath a lot sooner then a bulldog would.


----------



## gazz

fenwoman said:


> I agree, any dog could bite. But how often have you heard of a newfie attacking or going on the rampage?Could you provide a link to the report of the Newfie attacking out of interest?.


Well there not very common dogs.I mean how meny Newfoundlands in the uk compaired to bullterrier types.So which are you likely going to hear about attack someone or something..

Here the link.
Newfoundland Attacks 2nd Time


----------



## gazz

fenwoman said:


> You think? SO my chihuahuas could be sniffer dogs? My newfie cross could learn to herd sheep? A collie could learn to be a retrieving or pointing dog? Why do you think there are different breeds? They were developed to have certain traits to do a certain job.The pitbulls only job was to kill other dogs, unlike the staffy's job which was to bait bulls. The only reason the pitbull has the word in it's name is because of the fact that staffordshire bull terrier was used in the original crossings to try to form the breed. The word 'pit' has more relevance as to how the breed came about.


I ment knowing there place in the pecking order a dog as you ofcourse know should always bottom of the athabet under humans-(never to be done in a crual manner) will lead to nervous aggression-(dangerous).Rase any breed as a family pet that's what you get.Rase them to be aggressive that what you get.You have differant breeds coz there are meny differant countrys and they breed go though differant process country to country/county to county/state to state.A chih's sence of smell is the same as any other dog so yes why not.There are some large breed that are involed in sheep rottie for one was a herding breed.And ofcourse a collie could lean to retrive esay.I've seem a staffie doing agility that usually seen being done by collies.Certion breed have coats,builds'etc most suited for there jobs needed of them it's that that make it esayer for some breed and not others.


----------



## Andy

fenwoman said:


> Which breed of spaniel. Data please.
> 
> 
> I said that?
> 
> 
> Yes there are still pitbull attacks because there is a lack of policing and the authorities are thick. I mean we all know what pitbulls are called now don't we, and advertised all over the place. If the ban was to be a proper ban it should be rigourously enforced and every advert' for them (under the different names) should be followed up and the litters, parents etc removed and euthanased.
> However I think the ban was brought in as a sop to the public. Another law which is unenforceable and brought in so that politicians can say "look, of course we care, we banned them didn't we?"


I would not agree with anyone euthanising any healthy non aggressive dog just because of its breed. The stats I found didn't give a specific type of spaniel just 'spaniel' so it covers a broad range admittedly. If you google it you will find it. I know also that GSDs and Rottweilers have caused deaths not only to children but adults wordwide (if not more than Pitbulls) would you also be happy for them to be banned?


----------



## Nebbz

if this helps i have seen this on many forums since the whole pitbull thing kicked off with press because of that poor little girl (yes i agree with that score, that kid didnt need to die, but it was the owners fault)

but this is the top ten most dangerous dog breeds

1) dachshund
2) chihuahua
3) jack russel
4) Akita
5) Australian Cattle dog
6) Pit Bull
7) Beagle
8) English Springer Spaniel
9) Border Collie
10) German Shepherd dog

It was an investigation carried out by the University of Pennsilvania. Notice how how Rotties and Staffies do not even make it onto the top 10! The lowest apparently are Golden Retirievers, Labs, Basset Hounds and Greyhounds ( which does not surprise me).

courtesy of petforums.co.uk of which i am NOT a member of but might join.


----------



## gazz

fenwoman said:


> You are talking a lot of it as you don't know their history.


Sorry but that would be you.The fact you don't know that the BULL come from the being created from bulldog cross terrier ?? enough said.

I am a staffie owner 10 years had her since a pup i got a staff coz i when round my dads friends.That had four SBT's and a EBT and the house hold was mum/dad 3 kids with four SBT's and a EBT (AND A CAT: victory.There dogs didn't know me but i was greeted with much friendlyness they only wanted to play all the time:roll:.So before i got one first thing was BOOKS read about there history,there facts,the books also told me that bullterriers WASN'T what papers lead you to beleave.So yes ofcourse i know there history:Na_Na_Na_Na:.My staffie has NEVER rased a tone to any human.She lived with a cat till he sadly died of kidney failer this year:sad:.And the only dog she sniped at was a dog that pested her in season.But she only told it to pi$off she didn't continue to ravage and this is coz she is rased as a much love family pet.NOT a killing machine.


----------



## rakpeterson

Nebbz said:


> if this helps i have seen this on many forums since the whole pitbull thing kicked off with press because of that poor little girl (yes i agree with that score, that kid didnt need to die, but it was the owners fault)
> 
> but this is the top ten most dangerous dog breeds
> 
> 1) dachshund
> 2) chihuahua
> 3) jack russel
> 4) Akita
> 5) Australian Cattle dog
> 6) Pit Bull
> 7) Beagle
> 8) English Springer Spaniel
> 9) Border Collie
> 10) German Shepherd dog
> 
> It was an investigation carried out by the University of Pennsilvania. Notice how how Rotties and Staffies do not even make it onto the top 10! The lowest apparently are Golden Retirievers, Labs, Basset Hounds and Greyhounds ( which does not surprise me).
> 
> courtesy of petforums.co.uk of which i am NOT a member of but might join.


You have to watch these lists of so called dangerous breeds. Most are not factualy backed up and if you search around you'll find different variations everywhere you look, plus yours is in the USA.

I give you all a list below that was compiled in 2006 based on numbers of reported bites/attacks in the UK.



*Staffordshire Terrier - 279*
*Cattle Dog - 208*
*Rottweiler - 173*
*German Shepherd - 166*
*Pit Bull - 133*
*Kelpie - 100*
*Bullmastiff - 90*
*Labrador - 83*
*Bull Terrier - 74*
*Terrier - 66*
This list doesnt do much for protecting or bettering the reputation of certain breeds, as most are up there, but for me, it still all boils down to ownership.....Two things have to be looked at 1)What type of people are the most prominent owners and 2) Of the few good owners, how many of them had enough experience, education, training etc.

I hate BSL and think its a total farce and I also agree that a dog is what you make it, but as fenwoman has pointed out, some dogs are better than others at certain tasks and have certain traits that come with the breed which can make them unsuitable for certain people for several obvious reasons.

My opinion and something I would actually welcome to better protect the dogs, is a form of licensing and training for all dog owners, and an assesment of your ability to manage a more difficult breed.....the problem is enforcing it and working out how you can stop people going underground with them.


----------



## Evie

rakpeterson said:


> My opinion and something I would actually welcome to better protect the dogs, is a form of licensing and training for all dog owners, and an assesment of your ability to manage a more difficult breed.....the problem is enforcing it and working out how you can stop people going underground with them.


I said exactly this in a previous post. I don't think it would be that hard to enforce since the number of people owning dogs would decline. Any law enforcement officer could spot check anyone on the street with a dog. Also anyone who is the subject of a dog related complaint. If they can enforce motoring laws, they can easily enforce dog laws. 
Half the problem with the breed bans is that the average policeman don't know one end a dog from the other. I should think seizing a suspect dog is very expensive too: Kennel fees, legal experts to ID it etc. 
If everyone had to prove themselves, and the levels were based on the weight of the dog, it would be much easier to enforce.


----------



## Nebbz

rakpeterson said:


> You have to watch these lists of so called dangerous breeds. Most are not factualy backed up and if you search around you'll find different variations everywhere you look, plus yours is in the USA.
> 
> I give you all a list below that was compiled in 2006 based on numbers of reported bites/attacks in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> *Staffordshire Terrier - 279*
> *Cattle Dog - 208*
> *Rottweiler - 173*
> *German Shepherd - 166*
> *Pit Bull - 133*
> *Kelpie - 100*
> *Bullmastiff - 90*
> *Labrador - 83*
> *Bull Terrier - 74*
> *Terrier - 66*
> This list doesnt do much for protecting or bettering the reputation of certain breeds, as most are up there, but for me, it still all boils down to ownership.....Two things have to be looked at 1)What type of people are the most prominent owners and 2) Of the few good owners, how many of them had enough experience, education, training etc.
> 
> I hate BSL and think its a total farce and I also agree that a dog is what you make it, but as fenwoman has pointed out, some dogs are better than others at certain tasks and have certain traits that come with the breed which can make them unsuitable for certain people for several obvious reasons.
> 
> My opinion and something I would actually welcome to better protect the dogs, is a form of licensing and training for all dog owners, and an assesment of your ability to manage a more difficult breed.....the problem is enforcing it and working out how you can stop people going underground with them.


ah fair nuff, i do belive yours more how ever (even if staffys are on there!  grr to facts) just used the one i found as seen it more than once. 

im with you though, they have a crap rep because of the silly people who get hold of them and because they do, they breed them (bad lines occur) and then more available and more bad people get hold of them. Recently had a go at a kid my OH knows as hes getting a staff x pit soon and hes a chav, and he said the wrong thing straight away.."imagine walking down the road with that blood" just reared up on him telling him not to bother owning a dog because he only wants it for status not as a pet, called him every name under the sun and told my OH to get him out my face cus hes a pratt. lol! i hope for the dogs sake he doesnt get it :censor:


----------



## Caz

Injection said:


> Unfortunatly theres not unless you brake the law which i dont recommend at all *i know people that keep them in remote lockups* but really what quality of life does it have, these dogs are bred for one one reason im sure you know the reason.
> 
> Get a Rottweiler mate
> Welcome to the forum :welcome:


Well as they're obviously kept there for breeding / fighting. Why don't you report them? Perhaps not as controversial to you as a tortoise 'farm?'


----------



## rakpeterson

fenwoman said:


> Staffordshire bull terriers were bred to fight bulls. Why do you imagine the name contains the word 'bull'?


We could debate this all day as most breed history is a bit of a mystery, but it is widely accepted than the SBT as we know it today was infact bred mainly for dog fighting. They were created at the time bullbaiting became illegal. By this time bullbaiting had become more of a sport and so people took to dog fighting which was still legal, to replace this sport they had lost. It is believed that todays SBT was created from the bulldogs of the day (which were more like american bulldogs) and terriers. Back then they were simply known as ''bullterrier'' or ''bull and terrier''.



fenwoman said:


> So why aren't they called beardogs?


As i said, they weren't used for bullbaiting, but the bulldogs of the time that they were created from were used for both bull and bear baiting.




fenwoman said:


> You think? SO my chihuahuas could be sniffer dogs? My newfie cross could learn to herd sheep? A collie could learn to be a retrieving or pointing dog? Why do you think there are different breeds? They were developed to have certain traits to do a certain job.


I do believe that with the right training your ursa could herd sheep, your chihuahuas could be sniffers and a collie could retrieve, and I am currently doing sniffer training with my Presa, just for the fun of it, but as you do say, certain breeds are better than others for particular tasks, but that doesnt mean that only the specific breeds can perform that task.


----------



## tortz

i may be wrong but i think in florida (except miami dade) you can own pitbulls still so you may have to move if u want one :lol2:

i watched a program where a man had about 12 pitbulls in his garden (in usa) & had them chained up outside & the males were used for fighting & females for breeding. Even tho they were brought up to fight & was kept in horrendous conditions they still wagged there tails when the animal rescue come. As they were fighting dogs tho & couldnt be trusted to be rehomed sadly the dogs were put to sleep but they kept one bitch & she passed the tests & was adopted by a family :flrt:


----------



## ishotthesherifswife

dogo argentio was not bred for fighting, but hunting large game.

BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED


----------

