# Help With Spanish Snake Identification.



## Sharm (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi I wonder if anyone could help identify the snake in the pictures please. I spotted it whilst walking in the Beceite area of Spain. It`s a juvenile about 12" in length and was in a pool striking at fish. I have googled all the species know in the area, but it doesn`t appear to match any of them. Thanks Paul
















Thanks Paul


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Is the snake dead in these images? (Distorted head, swollen eye, skin folds along its back)
If this was taken in Spain it can only be a Viperine snake (_Natrix maura_) but the head and eye look swollen up and pupil has popped (there would be a ring around the round pupil in a live specimen, making the eye look smaller).


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## Sharm (Sep 6, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> Is the snake dead in these images? (Distorted head, swollen eye, skin folds along its back)
> If this was taken in Spain it can only be a Viperine snake (_Natrix maura_) but the head and eye look swollen up and pupil has popped (there would be a ring around the round pupil in a live specimen, making the eye look smaller).


Hi, no the snake was most definitely alive, we watched it for some time when it went back in the water striking at small fish. It was the size of the eyes that confused me. Having said that we must of watched it for 30 mins or so and didn`t see it catch one of the many small fish around it regardless of the many strikes, so could it of been a Viperine with some sort of condition. I cant find a picture from the other side, but both eyes were the same..


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## Roman A (Sep 13, 2012)

My best bet would be an unusually colored Viperine water snake (Natrix maura), maybe because the colors are lighter in juvenile snakes. The eye looks strange, it might be just prior to shed, so still somewhat cloudy or it might actually have some kind of infection, so you can’t see the pupil. However, the big frontale, Supraoculare and Parietalia are typical for Natrix maura, also the light coloration of the Supralabialia and Sublabialia.

Here are some pictures from Natrix maura showing similar head shapes, the large eye and unusual coloration 































































Francis, your thoughts?


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## paulsharman64 (2 mo ago)

Thanks, that's great.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I disagree.
That is NOT a viperine.
First off, zoom in on the snout in the first photo. That rostral scale looks enlarged.
The eyes are completely wrong. Even in shed, no viperine would have eyes like that. 
Then the body shape.
It looks triangular, and very underweight. The markings are completely wrong too.
I wonder if it's more likely to be a non native species that has been released or escaped?
Whatever it is, it's not a viperine. Wrong eyes, snout is wrong, especially that rostral scale, markings, couring, body shape, none fit a viperine.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Roman A said:


> Francis, your thoughts?


I concur, although I admit I had to look a few times and if anybody showed me this pic and did not mention it was found in Spain, Viperine snake is definitely not where my mind would go.


Scalation and coloration does match some Viperines I have seen, albeit this one has a really low contrast pattern; possibly even near hypo but certainly not super unusual. Look at the patten and colour on the flanks, postocular, nape and labials compared to this, the markings are all there:










What confused me a bit is the overall shape and the eye but my opinion is these are explained by the animal being in extremely poor condition (which is why I thought it was a dead specimen - if it was not dead it probably is by now).

Firstly it is _extremely_ emaciated and has folds down its back that hide the dorsal pattern, seen here. Obscuring what is already a low pattern animal, and making it look toblerone-shaped and skinnier than it should be.










Second and more confusing is the eye. That does not look like a _Natrix_ eye... only I think it is actually damaged and either has a retained eyecap or the spectacle is destroyed and half popped out; if you look closely at the other eye you can see the round pupil and ring around it. The ring around _Natrix_ pupils gives a false illusion that they have smaller eyes than they really do, actually their eyes are quite large and more so on a young snake so would look weird if damaged.










I still say Viperine snake as this is the only snake in Spain that matches the description of behaviour and the images. Poor photos and an unusual/ damaged specimen just make it a more difficult ID.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

The enlarged and pronounced rostral scale is my issue. That's not seen on a viperine.
Perhaps the description trying to grab fish but failing is because they are not normal prey.
Is this a ladder snake thats ended up in the wrong habitat?
Seems more likely than a viperine with an unyet described pattern mutation with odd eyes??


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

ian14 said:


> The enlarged and pronounced rostral scale is my issue. That's not seen on a viperine.
> Perhaps the description trying to grab fish but failing is because they are not normal prey.
> Is this a ladder snake thats ended up in the wrong habitat?
> Seems more likely than a viperine with an unyet described pattern mutation with odd eyes??


The rostral does not look enlarged to me? Maybe the angle the snake's head is at.
Ladder snakes have one preocular (this has two) and a much taller, narrower rostral that overhangs the jaw. 
They also have round pupils, so the same issue with the eye exists. I suspect if it had problems grabbing fish it might be more likely to be due to a damaged eye / poor condition?




























I do not think it is an undescribed pattern mutation, the pattern itself is fairly typical; it's just poorly defined. Animals from north-east Spain tend to be low contrast in general anyway.

I can see why confusion is there but it really does look to me like a sickly Viperine with one bashed up eye.
I will pass the images along to my Spanish snake groups for other opinions.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Thrasops said:


> The rostral does not look enlarged to me? Maybe the angle the snake's head is at.
> Ladder snakes have one preocular (this has two) and a much taller, narrower rostral that overhangs the jaw.
> They also have round pupils, so the same issue with the eye exists. I suspect if it had problems grabbing fish it might be more likely to be due to a damaged eye / poor condition?
> 
> ...


Consensus is that it’s a Viperine in bad condition.


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## Sharm (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi all, thanks for the responses. from the comments I think we can conclude it is actually a Viperine in ill health. Thanks again Paul


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Sharm said:


> Hi all, thanks for the responses. from the comments I think we can conclude it is actually a Viperine in ill health. Thanks again Paul


Hi, they are asking if there is any possibility of rescuing this animal (there are a number of snake rescuers in that group). When did you see it? Is there any chance of collecting it as I have the contact for a rescue in Teruel that might be willing to drive up for it?


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## Sharm (Sep 6, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> Hi, they are asking if there is any possibility of rescuing this animal (there are a number of snake rescuers in that group). When did you see it? Is there any chance of collecting it as I have the contact for a rescue in Teruel that might be willing to drive up for it?


Hi Thrasops, unfortunately the photo was taken back on the 24th September, so based on comments I doubt it is still alive or in the same place. I`ve attached an image of where it was spotted (marked with red)
)


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Sharm said:


> Hi Thrasops, unfortunately the photo was taken back on the 24th September, so based on comments I doubt it is still alive or in the same place. I`ve attached an image of where it was spotted (marked with red)
> )
> View attachment 369364


Thanks, I did think it was probably a long shot, but said I would ask.


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