# really silly question



## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

maybe this is a really silly question but is a creamsicle the f1 of a corn x great plains or does it only become a creamsicle after its been crossed again with another corn

Cause i remember reading somewhere that creamsicles are produced by first crossing the great plains and corn and then the offspring to another corn


So are creamsicles f1 or f2's?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

A creamsicle is any visual albino animal who has Emoryi and Guttattus heritage.

It could be an F1 or an F100.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

yep, thats it dude..


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ah, ok. i wasn't sure if it only became a creamsicle when the f1 hybrid was put with another corn, i assumed to enhance colouring etc but that was an easy one

cheers peeps:no1:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

if its amel then its creamsicle, generally if its not then its copper.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

or rootbeer, thats the yankie version though


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> if its amel then its creamsicle, generally if its not then its copper.


 
yeah i got that side of it lol, just always assumed it was always enhanced by a second breeding with amels, just something i was wondering about after seeing those sunglow creamsicles, were they sunglow x great plains or creamsicles x sunglows


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

most creams are really bright 1st go.. i dont think i have seen too many rough ones to be honest.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> most creams are really bright 1st go.. i dont think i have seen too many rough ones to be honest.


 
Yeah, that male i had off you is turning into a real cracker:grin1: 


Cheers for that, Im considering breeding my male albino everglades to one of my amels, when they are big enough :lol2: not sure what name that gives them, or if anything interesting comes out of it, but i have spare female amels with nothing to breed to, so might be worth a go:lol2:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

dont waste amels on one mate, use an ultramel, at least until the price drops on them anyway.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> dont waste amels on one mate, use an ultramel, at least until the price drops on them anyway.


 
Ya lost me there nige? are you on about ultramels? I didn't get that in the end,too many people didn't see the ultra side so i thought it wasn't worth it, not unless they drop the price

i was on about my albino everglades:lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> or rootbeer, thats the yankie version though


You mean the "right" version of it, not the "Yankee" version of it, don't you?  Seeing as they're North American snakes and all....

Far as it goes, for what I understand (and where each species has a contribution, though it does not have to be 50/50):

_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, no morph = Rootbeer / "Copper"
_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, amelanistic = Creamsicle
_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, anerythristic = "Fudgesicle" / anery-emoryi/corn
_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, snow = "Icicle" / snow-emoryi/corn 
_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, Hypomelanistic = Cinnamon
_P. guttattus_ X _P. emoryi_, Caramel + Amel = Buttercream


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> You mean the "right" version of it, not the "Yankee" version of it, don't you?  Seeing as they're North American snakes and all....
> 
> Far as it goes, for what I understand (and where each species has a contribution, though it does not have to be 50/50):
> 
> ...


 
do you know if its ever common to be done with rossalleni?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> do you know if its ever common to be done with rossalleni?


I haven't personally seen anything I KNOW is a Corn / Everglades cross for sure - they might have posted some photos over on Cornsnakes.com, though....

I'm not quite sure what an Everglades / Corn cross would improve, mind you - unless you had a nice stripe corn.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> I haven't personally seen anything I KNOW is a Corn / Everglades cross for sure - they might have posted some photos over on Cornsnakes.com, though....
> 
> I'm not quite sure what an Everglades / Corn cross would improve, mind you - unless you had a nice stripe corn.


 
yeah, ive got a nice ghost stripe, but probably be best with an amel stripe or something?, ive not seen what my bino everglades are going to look like as adults and how much of the patterning will show through,( if any) compared to a normal. theres some pics on here recently of an everglades thats still showing its young hour glass marking but not sure of the age of that one


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> yeah, ive got a nice ghost stripe, but probably be best with an amel stripe or something?, ive not seen what my bino everglades are going to look like as adults and how much of the patterning will show through,( if any) compared to a normal. theres some pics on here recently of an everglades thats still showing its young hour glass marking but not sure of the age of that one


I dunno, I think a coral snow stripe Florida Rat Snake would be pretty cool.... 

Albino Everglades X Ghost Stripe Corn = 100% Florida Rats het for Everglades Albino, Corn Hypo, Corn Anery and Corn Stripe.

Breed the hets together and you might get some VERY interesting results!


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> I dunno, I think a coral snow stripe Florida Rat Snake would be pretty cool....
> 
> Albino Everglades X Ghost Stripe Corn = 100% Florida Rats het for Everglades Albino, Corn Hypo, Corn Anery and Corn Stripe.
> 
> Breed the hets together and you might get some VERY interesting results!


 
Yeah, that could be fun, if its not all masked, knowing my luck:lol2: would you get results in the f1 if an amel was used?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> Yeah, that could be fun, if its not all masked, knowing my luck:lol2: would you get results in the f1 if an amel was used?


No guarantee.

Cornsnake Amelanistic isn't compatible with certain other rat snake Amelanistic - if I remember rightly, Black Rat Snake Amel for one - so you might get amel F1s ... or you might get normal-looking Florida Rats who are het for two types of amel at the same time.

I wouldn't guess that simple recessives like hypo, anery and stripe would work any substantially differently JUST because they're crossed into a hybrid - I know that you can get Motley, Amel, Anery and Snow Jungle corns, and that's an even more distant cross.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> No guarantee.
> 
> Cornsnake Amelanistic isn't compatible with certain other rat snake Amelanistic - if I remember rightly, Black Rat Snake Amel for one - so you might get amel F1s ... or you might get normal-looking Florida Rats who are het for two types of amel at the same time.
> 
> I wouldn't guess that simple recessives like hypo, anery and stripe would work any substantially differently JUST because they're crossed into a hybrid - I know that you can get Motley, Amel, Anery and Snow Jungle corns, and that's an even more distant cross.


ah, ok thanks, i definetely got a pair of these everglades, so should be able to breed these, then i can just give it a go with the male to a corn, it cant hurt


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

Ssthisto said:


> You mean the "right" version of it, not the "Yankee" version of it, don't you?  Seeing as they're North American snakes and all....
> 
> Far as it goes, for what I understand (and where each species has a contribution, though it does not have to be 50/50):
> 
> ...


doesnt make a great deal of difference to me... but yeah, that lol


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

captaincaveman said:


> Ya lost me there nige? are you on about ultramels? I didn't get that in the end,too many people didn't see the ultra side so i thought it wasn't worth it, not unless they drop the price
> 
> i was on about my albino everglades:lol2:


that dont mean you havent got access to one


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> that dont mean you havent got access to one


 
to go with? think im having a stupid week:lol2:


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

from my original question, i realised where i got it from, I got the 2007 corn morph guide delived and it says this



> creamsicle projects are started by crossing an amel cornsnake to a emoryi ratsnake. these offspring are then either bred to each other or to an amelanistic. in the second generation and beyond, the amelanistic offspring(or any amel with an emoryi ancestor)are called creamsicles


at least i didn't imagine it:lol2:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

captaincaveman said:


> to go with? think im having a stupid week:lol2:


amel and ultramel


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> amel and ultramel


 
are you offering to stud out your ultramel to one of my amels nige?:mf_dribble:


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

captaincaveman said:


> are you offering to stud out your ultramel to one of my amels nige?:mf_dribble:


thats the rumour


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> thats the rumour


 
think it'll need some growing to do first:lol2:


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