# African Pygmy Hedgehog substrate help please!!!



## pipistroller (Jun 1, 2011)

Hi everyone

I am really worried about my little boy. His substrate is aspen (the same shredded type aspen used in the burmese python's viv). Yesterday when he came out for his cuddle time, I noticed a small piece of aspen sticking out of his little willie. I panicked but gently pulled it out. Tonight when he came out for cuddle time, there was more aspen sticking out of his little winkie and again I have pulled it out gently. I am worried sick as I have been reading that this can cause urine infections and all sorts of problems. All over the net, it says you can use aspen shavings as substrate. I am now wondering if aspen shavings are different to the burm's aspen i.e., does aspen shavings look sortof like what is left after you have plained some wood? Is the burm's aspen I use for my little boy shredded and is different? 

I don't want to use fleece liners as he loves to burrow and dig his way under the substrate.

Sorry for rambling but I am really worried and don't know what to do.


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

I would stop using the Aspen if it were me. I use Finacard, which is shredded cardboard for the same reason as you mentioned, they can snuffle through it! Its dust free, doesnt get caught on them and really economical.

Heres the link FinaCARD Cardboard Bedding Maxibale [Finacard] - £13.99 : Finacard, Quality Animal Bedding

Its £13.99, delivered for a large bale, so it will last you ages!! :2thumb:

All the best Paula


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

i use bog standard small animal wood shavings.....and willies have always remained functioning and healthy


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## pipistroller (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks so much for responses. I have had a good look at the link and have now ordered finacard.

After seeing little pieces of aspen sticking out of his little winkie was enough for me and as you said, finacard still allows him to snuffle. I looked around and have seen it said that finacard also lets them still burrow etc so it sounds perfect. Hopefully they will deliver it soon!


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## jamie2011 (Jul 9, 2011)

i keep my hoggie on fleece cage liners which are changed daily works well for him and he has loads of snuffles in it!


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

How do you expect your hedgehog to be able to root around and forage (i.e. exhibit natural behaviour) with fleecy cage liners instead of more sensible substrate?


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## pipistroller (Jun 1, 2011)

I thought that too. I was going to go for fleecy liners but am glad I didn't as he loves to snuffle, dig around and burrow in his aspen. I was worried that if I used finacard he wouldnt be able to do this but after a lot of searching around I found out that he would still be able to do all he loves to do. I think that fleece liners look cute but I think its better to let these little guys do what comes natural to them, i.e., dig and burrow


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> How do you expect your hedgehog to be able to root around and forage (i.e. exhibit natural behaviour) with fleecy cage liners instead of more sensible substrate?


My hog was on finacard for best part of two years and didnt exhibit foraging behaviour, every hog is unique some will do it some wont, same with many other "natural" behaviours they and other animals are "supposed" to do. 

Although the APH does not exist in the wild (and never has) and so doesnt technically have a natural habitat that we can accurately copy in their cage/viv.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

panther_87k said:


> Although the APH does not exist in the wild (and never has) and so doesnt technically have a natural habitat that we can accurately copy in their cage/viv.


yes yes yes I know they don't exist in the wild, but are you _seriously_ suggesting that this means they won't exhibit foraging behaviour? If you look at all other *WILD* species of hog (including the ones which are the ancestors of your beloved fleece-wrapped babies, then they are natural foragers....as are the tenrecs (not related, but mind-blowingly co-evolved to be bloody identical). So are you _really_ saying that because the APH is a hybrid created for the pet market, they have lost the ability/drive/need to forage???? Just so that they can walk around on fluffy wuffy, fleecy, softy stuff to protect their little tootsies? 

_NEWSFLASH:_ They are animals.....not babies!:2wallbang:


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## pipistroller (Jun 1, 2011)

Well I hope that Mr Strummer does dig around an forage in the finacard when it is delivered. I'll put in quite a bit so its nice and deep and keep my fingers crossed. 

I do have a snuggle pouch for him which he either sleeps in or sleeps under. I do think the fleece liners look really cute but I just couldn't take away his instince of foraging, burrowing and digging.


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> yes yes yes I know they don't exist in the wild, but are you _seriously_ suggesting that this means they won't exhibit foraging behaviour? If you look at all other *WILD* species of hog (including the ones which are the ancestors of your beloved fleece-wrapped babies, then they are natural foragers....as are the tenrecs (not related, but mind-blowingly co-evolved to be bloody identical). So are you _really_ saying that because the APH is a hybrid created for the pet market, they have lost the ability/drive/need to forage???? Just so that they can walk around on fluffy wuffy, fleecy, softy stuff to protect their little tootsies?
> 
> _NEWSFLASH:_ They are animals.....not babies!:2wallbang:


Why are you constantly so hostile towards other members on here? its not the first time ive seen you post in such a way either.

At no point did i say that they WONT exhibit foraging behaviour, I said that they are all unique and therefore will exhibit DIFFERENT behaviours, i.e. some will and some wont forage! I gave you an example in my own hog who didn't forage when given the opportunity for TWO YEARS! He much prefers his wheel, i'm not going to force him to forage simply because its the "NORMAL" thing that he is supposed to do.
I also never stated that I keep my hedgie on fleece, I don't. But I dont see it being a problem for those that do, most people I know that keep theirs on fleece offer finacard/chin sand or similar for foraging (if the hog wants to) when out for play in the evenings. Skunks don't live on carpet or laminate flooring in the wild but does that mean skunk keepers should cover their living room floors with leaves and such???? No that would just be ridiculous.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

panther_87k said:


> Why are you constantly so hostile towards other members on here? its not the first time ive seen you post in such a way either.
> 
> At no point did i say that they WONT exhibit foraging behaviour, I said that they are all unique and therefore will exhibit DIFFERENT behaviours, i.e. some will and some wont forage! I gave you an example in my own hog who didn't forage when given the opportunity for TWO YEARS! He much prefers his wheel, i'm not going to force him to forage simply because its the "NORMAL" thing that he is supposed to do.
> I also never stated that I keep my hedgie on fleece, I don't. But I dont see it being a problem for those that do, most people I know that keep theirs on fleece offer finacard/chin sand or similar for foraging (if the hog wants to) when out for play in the evenings. Skunks don't live on carpet or laminate flooring in the wild but does that mean skunk keepers should cover their living room floors with leaves and such???? No that would just be ridiculous.


"_*Constantly*_ hostile"? No hostility here whatsoever.....perhaps a touch of exasperation at a world gone utterly bonkers :crazy:, but never truly hostile....and certainly _never_ constant!:gasp:

So are you saying that your hedgehog never foraged? How could you possibly know unless you stayed awake _all_ night?

All fleece liner does is remove opportunity for the best and most basic trick in the keeper's arsenal.....that of a scatter-feed. Something that every keeper of almost every animal can (and probably should) do to provide a little enrichment.

Bravo on your little dig about skunks living indoors. It would almost work except that every day I hide food about the house for Rosy to *forage* for.....making it a little more difficult for her to find food instead of just troughing away at a bowl. Also skunks (like raccoons, foxes, and other such urban wildlife), have shown a fantastic ability for adaptation to live alongside humans and find them as the _best_ and most constant source of food in the wild.....making them ideal subjects to be well on their way towards _true_ domestication. As well as that, Rosy spends rather a lot of time in my huge escape-proof garden.:2thumb:


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## pipistroller (Jun 1, 2011)

Update on the substrate ....

Mr Strummer's finacard arrived yesterday. We immediately cleaned out the viv and gave him a good deep layer. At first he wasn't sure about it at all but after about 5 or 10 minutes, he was almost diving around in it. He would run along underneath the layer of finacard so all we could see was a moving lump and then pop his little head up like a gopher all proud of himself. He kept that up for hours. He especially likes the fact that he can creap under his finacard and pounce on his toys without them seeing him coming. He seems really proud of his new skill!!!! :lol2:Bless him!!!

I know he's only been out one night on the finacard but if he keeps going the way he did last night, its a total success.


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

pipistroller said:


> Update on the substrate ....
> 
> Mr Strummer's finacard arrived yesterday. We immediately cleaned out the viv and gave him a good deep layer. At first he wasn't sure about it at all but after about 5 or 10 minutes, he was almost diving around in it. He would run along underneath the layer of finacard so all we could see was a moving lump and then pop his little head up like a gopher all proud of himself. He kept that up for hours. He especially likes the fact that he can creap under his finacard and pounce on his toys without them seeing him coming. He seems really proud of his new skill!!!! :lol2:Bless him!!!
> 
> I know he's only been out one night on the finacard but if he keeps going the way he did last night, its a total success.


im glad hes enjoying the finacard, it is great stuff! My hog has never exhibited that behaviour with the stuff, and has never shown an interest in toys either. He liked cardboard tubes (cut down the side) but after about 6 months gave up on them, hasnt been bothered with toys since. Tried everything, shop bought and stuff from round the house. Loves his wheel though! 
Keep an eye out for large chunks of cardboard that didnt get shredded properly, i used to just rip them up into smaller pieces, did once find a piece of hard blue plastic in my batch but was soon sorted out with the guy and havent had any problems since, or heard of any one else having problems either.


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> "_*Constantly*_ hostile"? No hostility here whatsoever.....perhaps a touch of exasperation at a world gone utterly bonkers :crazy:, but never truly hostile....and certainly _never_ constant!:gasp:
> 
> So are you saying that your hedgehog never foraged? How could you possibly know unless you stayed awake _all_ night?
> 
> ...


My apologies "constantly" was probably the wrong word "regularly" would fit better, and it seems others agree with me too. 

Knowing where things were placed in his viv before I went to bed and seeing them in exactly the same place when I got up in the morning would mean they hadn't been moved, these "things" would have food hidden under them too. Why won't you just accept that MY hog isn't a forager but others may well be. Do you not believe that each animal has unique qualities? It is still possible to scatter-feed without having a substrate such as finacard, there are other ways to hide food around a viv or when out in a pen. Also there is more to enrichment than just food.

I didnt have a dig at skunks living indoors at all, I was using the fact that they dont live on a "natural" substrate when kept as pets (although im sure there are the odd few kept more naturally), skunks are still technically "wild" animals the same as APH, so the same sentiments apply. I have no problem with skunks as pets in or outdoors. In fact I would love one myself but am not in a position to have one at present. 
Your "I hide food about the house for Rosy to *forage* for.....making it a little more difficult for her to find food instead of just troughing away at a bowl." is no different to me or someone using fleece liners hiding food around a viv or playpen (when out for play in evenings) so you've in esscence, contradicted yourself, you were saying that without a finacard type substrate a hog cannot forage, it can you just do things differently. Like YOU do with your skunk. 

Foxes, raccoons and the like have only become urbanised because we as humans have urbanised their wild habitat, but thats a totally different discussion 

I shall not continue to reply to your posts now if it is going to become an arguement. If you wish to converse without arguing then thats fine.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

panther_87k said:


> Why won't you just accept that MY hog isn't a forager but others may well be. Do you not believe that each animal has unique qualities?
> Because I would have assumed that foraging is an almost innate behaviour, that only a spoon-fed lazy hog would not wish to engage in.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not having an argument with you....is that _really_ how you see this? As a yorkshireman, I may not be the most delicate person in the world (which is maybe why I think fleecy liners are a laughably comical), but if you perceive my direct (sometimes blunt) honesty as "argumentative", then I'm truly sorry you feel that way......but I can't apologise for this honesty, which I see as a good quality.:flrt:: victory:


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## Jafna (Jun 7, 2012)

Was gonna chip in with what I do for my little girl, but in a bit scared to get involved now!!

I keep her on puppy training pads BUT provide her with a large sand tray that I fill with compost and treats each night.... She does have a fleecy in her bed area... That seemed like the best compromise to my cleaning regime, her health and both of our happiness!

Have to say, she wouldn't be a happy hog I she didn't have her compost to snifflewiffle in....


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

I always used Finacard with my late Hog (and I plan to use it with my new addition in several months). I found it an absolute God-send. It's not expensive for the amount you get, considering how large my three-tiered "Hog house" was, it lasted a good few months, not bad! I found the customer service top-notch, and they're always happy to send out samples for the price of delivery if you want to see how your pet gets on with it. It also encourages natural foraging behaviour. Quite often in the evening before bed, I'd scatter and hide insects throughout her viviarium so she would have something entertaining to do whilst I slept. She loved it!
: victory:


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