# Is this all there is to DWA?



## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Hello,

I spoke to my local council and vets and asked about DWA, i am having the vet come round i think to check out the room in which a DWA would be kept (referring to venomous snakes). 

They said basically i fill in the application, get the vet to check the place out and advise and thats about it. I asked about PLI and they said my council didnt require it for granting a license on snakes. So long as warning signs and envenoming protocols are kept.

Should there not be more to it? The council guy i spoke to also knows the guy who I know sells venomous snakes such as puff adders and cobras in his shop. (he refuses to sell them to people without DWA and takes a copy of the license when he sells them to you, so he isnt irresponsible). He told me that once I have the license i can buy the snakes, thats all that I need to do.

Im sure there should be more than just the above?

cheers

Rob


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Some areas are a lot more easier than others, if that's what your council tells you, then that's what it is!

I'm suprised about the PLI and I'd recommend getting it anyway to be honest..

My council requires you to be specific about the species of DWA you intend to keep and you have to speak to the council if you want to add another species, but I know that there are quite a few councils that still don't do this.

Some require "proof" of mentoring or knowledge/experience, others simply don't.

Looks like you got the postcode lottery of an easy area to be honest!

How much is your DWA out of interest? (It's just shy of £500 here)


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

They said you dont need PLI...?

Crikey, i havent heard about this before...


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

devil: out soapbox) That's why the DWA license is such a pile of poo! No standardisation of requirements, no standardisation of fees, sometimes the issuing council don't have the first idea of what is actually required and rely on the prosective owner to effectively write their own protocol for license issue.
It's bloody pathetic that a person could fulfil the license requirements in one area, but if he/she moved to another then they would have a whole different set of hoops to jump through, for exactly the same animal. I don't know how true this is, but I was told (can't remember when or by whom) but one council insists on a separate licence for each species!
(soapbox away now:2thumb


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

are you sure you wanna be keeping dwa's with such a short list of current species? i apologise if you have more experience than your drop down suggests


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

400runner said:


> are you sure you wanna be keeping dwa's with such a short list of current species? i apologise if you have more experience than your drop down suggests


Youve got a good point mate..


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Yeah ive been keeping and handling snakes e.t.c for a long time, i just never had a particularly large collection more due to size of house e.t.c 

But yeah it does look like iv got a good postcode lottery lol.

The license is £142.50 and the vet coming to inspect is £200 so in total £342.50

Theyre sending me the forms in the post.

Its probably not that bad either cos they havent had a new DWA app for over 2 years round here, we dont have a particularly high population density in the rural village i live in lol.

Rob


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Oh and i forgot to add, i mentioned the separate license for each species but he said if its reptiles i can keep them all on one license and if its others such as big cats e.t.c i need a separate one. 

So basically one for reps and one for mammals. Thats it.

This is the point of the thread really, im surprised there is so little to it in my area thats what Im saying.

Rob


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

ok well good luck with it all. the hobby will be all the better for people getting into dwa in a responsible way. have you thought about getting some mentoring?


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

I know round here it's £185 for the licence, £150 for the vet and PLI is required, that's it. No proof of mentoring required. All you have to do is phone them up and say "oh, I've got DWA, I've just bought one of these too, k, thanks bye"


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

I have.

The guy at the shop (the one the council know) is a true expert been doing it since he was 16, he keeps caiman, adders, cobras e.t.c and his shop is very aptly named 'predators' lol.

He said he will be happy to give me and the family a few free handling, tutoring sessions to get the show on the road as it were.

Im not taking it lightly by any means. Im getting info first. I certainly wont be having anything venomous for a few months/year or so until I know i am gonna be ok with them.

Our snake room already has spring loaded hinges and locks so the door shuts and locks if you forget to close it properly e.t.c so we would be pretty safe.


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Good luck mate !!

Let us know how it goes !!


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Cheers,

That i shall, that I shall.

Rob


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Chance said:


> Cheers,
> 
> That i shall, that I shall.
> 
> Rob


What type of snake were you planning on getting ??

Forgive me if you have already said !!


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

I dont really know yet, hes got a couple of horned vipers and a few puff adders at the moment, oh and his forset cobra lol. Im reckoning the puff adder to start with.

What u reckon? theres a surprising lack of info on them over tinterweb! lol.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

well puffs can be very aggressive and are big heavy bodied snakes, I can think of a couple that I have seen that have been relatively chilled though.


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Whats wrong with a copperhead or something a little less fiesty ?


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Nothing as yet. I havent really read massive amounts yet cos as I say am taking it slowly. I am going for the license first then ive got what I need to research and buy.

Rob


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

id do all the research first tbh, after looking into it in depth you might be put off, the risks are high, and accidents can happen bites really are horrific.


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

You will need to put what you intend to keep on your license. Have a look at v. ammodytes they don't get huge and are reasonably easy to work with although they can be a bit fiesty at times. Also the Antivenin for them is the same as the European Adder antivenin.


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Doodles said:


> You will need to put what you intend to keep on your license. Have a look at v. ammodytes they don't get huge and are reasonably easy to work with although they can be a bit fiesty at times. Also the Antivenin for them is the same as the European Adder antivenin.


I wont though cos I asked the council guy that exact question, cos I said id seen the forms of other councils saying they wanted to know exactly what u plan to keep but I said i wasnt sure and he told me that its fine so long as I restrict it to venomous snakes or other reptiles.

My council seem pretty slack on it tbh.

Rob


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Chance said:


> I wont though cos I asked the council guy that exact question, cos I said id seen the forms of other councils saying they wanted to know exactly what u plan to keep but I said i wasnt sure and he told me that its fine so long as I restrict it to venomous snakes or other reptiles.
> 
> My council seem pretty slack on it tbh.
> 
> Rob


Pity its not like that here !!


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Pity its not like that here !!


i know lol. Seem to have got lucky with our local council.

If theres any species you would consider best to start with all suggestions are welcome.

Cheers
Rob


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

Copperhead i would say !!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

my copperhead is insane by far the snappiest one out of them all.


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

SiUK said:


> my copperhead is insane by far the snappiest one out of them all.


What else do you have ?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I have a western diamond back, white lipped pitviper and europeon horned nosed viper.


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## Viper (May 10, 2008)

SiUK said:


> I have a western diamond back, white lipped pitviper and europeon horned nosed viper.


Lucky man, wheres the pics mate ?


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Chance said:


> Nothing as yet. I havent really read massive amounts yet cos as I say am taking it slowly. I am going for the license first then ive got what I need to research and buy.
> 
> Rob


 You might find the dwa has to be applied for each year......And you might need a lot of the stuff first......I would get set up... get trained up......Then get the dwa when you intend to get the snake.....Otherwise it's just redundant and wasting away without the animal......Well thats how it is around here....Your neck of the woods might be different.......


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

snakewispera snr said:


> You might find the dwa has to be applied for each year......And you might need a lot of the stuff first......I would get set up... get trained up......Then get the dwa when you intend to get the snake.....Otherwise it's just redundant and wasting away without the animal......Well thats how it is around here....Your neck of the woods might be different.......


It is renewable on an annual basis, thats what the guy at the council told me. 

Yeah am thinking of getting set up first e.t.c then getting the license sorted after that. I havent got up once from the sofa today as have been researching all bloody day lol.

Will do that me thinks!


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

Chance said:


> I have.
> 
> The guy at the shop (the one the council know) is a true expert been doing it since he was 16, he keeps caiman, adders, cobras e.t.c and his shop is very aptly named 'predators' lol.
> 
> ...


I've spoken to the guy at predators, and he wasn't willing to do any mentoring, just because it could go against his insurance. 
But that might change if an when I get a dwa. 
Cos as far as I know its really hard to get any mentoring in west yorkshire.
Shame really.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Put an ad on here for a mentor...Thats what I did.... And this guy got back to me.... I know a few on here have done the same thing.... 400 Runner....Mark Elliot...Thats the way I would go.....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Chance said:


> It is renewable on an annual basis, thats what the guy at the council told me.
> 
> Yeah am thinking of getting set up first e.t.c then getting the license sorted after that. I havent got up once from the sofa today as have been researching all bloody day lol.
> 
> Will do that me thinks!


 
I researched all the time without ever touching a venomous snake for over a year that was the research planning stage I already had learned about them before just not with the sole intention of keeping them, it really isnt something to be taken lightly, think about it carefully mate: victory:


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

mentoring, is something which is hard as many people dont want the risk of a trainee being bitten, I know marie and rich do training which might be a good idea, its funny, it strikes me as if one wanted to parachute jump they would want you to learn how, yet they issue licenses without any requirements on trainning at all, on a subject which is at least as dangerous as parachute jumping. What a shame a acrredited course cant be run somewhere to allow people to get the basic training they need, which then councils could sign up to so they accept it as part of their licence requirements. Myabe thats something for tigersnake or rich and marie to do. Certainly there seems more and more people wanting to do this, and it worries me how many people do it without training, it would be good maybe if somebody was set up for hot keepers to work together, so various places around the country could be listed to do this


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## thewifestolemyaccount (Mar 24, 2008)

Our local council (Aberdeenshire) only mentions DWA once on their website to state that they exist. No further details.
Have emailed them to ask for policies and fees and will let you know.

Simon


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

Chance said:


> I have.
> 
> The guy at the shop (the one the council know) is a true expert been doing it since he was 16, he keeps caiman, adders, cobras e.t.c and his shop is very aptly named 'predators' lol.
> 
> ...


 

looool im assuming your talking about richard at predators in shipley, i know him used to get some things from him he is a pretty good keeper, one thing i saw made me laugh tho he was on trisha once with his gf the store cleaner saying how he didnt love her. oh and once when i was in there he was trying to get a nile monitor out for cleaning it wriggled free and ran round the shop for ten minutes


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

Chance said:


> Yeah ive been keeping and handling snakes e.t.c for a long time, i just never had a particularly large collection more due to size of house e.t.c
> 
> But yeah it does look like iv got a good postcode lottery lol.
> 
> ...


Hi all,

I looked into getting a licence, and also have a mentor.

When I looked into it 15 months ago it cost £75 pounds for the licence and £300 pounds for the vets visit which were at the time International Zoo Veterinary Group. I belive Johanna Storm was the vet used, specialist rep vet so she knows what she is doing.

The council stated that I must have PLI.

An escape proof room, I was going to use my internal garage, door bricked up and room made escapeproof.

The vivs had to be lockable and have toughened glass.

Also it had to have double door entry,and one door you could see through.

Fire extinguishers.

I also had to name the snake(s) I wanted.

So prices have changed a bit licence has gone up, but vets inspection gone down.

One thing I do no If they still use the same vets there is no way you would be granted a DWA licence if you did not measure up.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that the DWA is a club and some existing members are not so keen on new keepers.

I think if anyone wants a DWA, has done all the things required plus research Has a mentor has got skills to handle snakes he she has as much right as anyone else to keep DWA snakes.

slither61


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

slither61 said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that the DWA is a club and you existing members are not so keen on new keepers.
> 
> I think if anyone wants a DWA, has done all the things required plus research Has a mentor has got skills to handle snakes he she has as much right as anyone else to keep DWA snakes.
> 
> slither61


 
Yeah I think that as well, although having said that, I have found keepers that have been really helpful and more than willing to help me out with anything I wanted to know and I appreciate the help of a select few people who I wouldnt be keeping now without there guidance.

But some people give the impression of a select club that no one has the right to belong to.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

i dont think thats true when I first learnt people were more than happy than happy to teach me and aid me. I think the same is true now, but some things have changed about the country we live in, with litigation on the increase, people are much more nervous about teaching, the only way we got the authorities to allow us to do it was coming up with health and safety policies and entrie criteria, so the council were happy we werent going to teach just anyone who turned up. Personally i feel this is a better way. The other part that does come into it in my opinion is, people these days seem in such a hurry to get to venomous, I cant think of any keepers i mix with who went on to venomous so quickly they all spent time with numerous non venomous species, its the way it was generally done, 

I dont think anyone objects to anyone coming and learning this passion of ours, but sometimes the worry is there about bites and sometimes it feels that people underestimate what one is like. I wouldnt wish a bite on anyone, having seen it first hand , the worry the family goes through, anything we can do to minimize this is a good thing. 

It is an interesting debate, and one with many sides, I personally like the florida system in linking hours of experience with a mentor to a license. but again, finding people willing to do it could be dificult. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out now that defra are making it easier to get licenses


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

SiUK said:


> Yeah I think that as well, although having said that, I have found keepers that have been really helpful and more than willing to help me out with anything I wanted to know and I appreciate the help of a select few people who I wouldnt be keeping now without there guidance.
> 
> But some people give the impression of a select club that no one has the right to belong to.


Hi all,

Thanks for the backup SiUK, as you say some are only too willing to help these people are needed in the hobby.

Not the one with the negative attitudes, some very highly regarded DWA keepers have been killed so it just shows noone is exempt.

It is a shame that all this negative attitude cannot be redirected to helping new DWA keepers, the snake hobby needs all the help it can get from the anti's.

Happy herping 

slither61:snake::snake::snake::snake:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Intersting*



slither61 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I looked into getting a licence, and also have a mentor.
> 
> ...


My council will only use The Zoo Vet Group for the inspection. Their charge this year is £440 inc vat!!!

When I had my recent inspection the local council abide to what the vet states in their report..no mention of double doors or of toughened glass and certainly not of fire extinguishers. In my case I can keep what I like with no restrictions on species or numbers. I do however have to get the DWA ammended everytime I add a snake onto it for the hard copy.

Mentoring is a real issue as I think SiUk stated in these days of lawsuits it is so so difficult to see who would do it.

And by the way I wasnt asked if I had been mentored but I suppose many applicants are asked.

I have a table booked at the spetember IHS Doncaster bash and will gladly answer anyones DWA questions....Not that I am an expert on the ins and outs of it ..only my personal expereinces.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

no I wasnt asked either if I had been, but I had a covering letter from my mentor but they never wanted to see it, I was a bit disapointed tbh, because I had planned it for months, stressed about everything being perfect added lots of extra stuff, and they didnt really pay too much attention at all, asked a few questions, I guess that was to weed out the people that hadnt done their research, but it was simple stuff that anyone applying should know. Checked the warning signs were in place and that the vivs were escape proof and that was it, didnt even look at my protocols.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> no I wasnt asked either if I had been, but I had a covering letter from my mentor but they never wanted to see it, I was a bit disapointed tbh, because I had planned it for months, stressed about everything being perfect added lots of extra stuff, and they didnt really pay too much attention at all, asked a few questions, I guess that was to weed out the people that hadnt done their research, but it was simple stuff that anyone applying should know. Checked the warning signs were in place and that the vivs were escape proof and that was it, didnt even look at my protocols.


Very similar to my exp.


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## thewifestolemyaccount (Mar 24, 2008)

*Aberdeenshire DWA*

Eventually got a reply from Aberdeenshire Council. They charge £37.75 plus vet inspection. There conditions are as follows:

*DANGEROUS WILD ANIMALS ACT 1976 (as amended)*​ *LICENCE CONDITIONS*​ 

A licence for the keeping of Dangerous Wild Animals is granted subject to the following conditions that must be implemented by the licence holder during the currency of the licence. These conditions shall apply to all buildings and areas to which the animals have access:


No dangerous wild animals other than those specified in the Licence shall be kept without the approval of the Local Authority.
 


The animals shall be kept by no person other than such person specified (whether by name or description) in the Licence.
 


The animals shall be held at the premises specified in the licence.
 


Animals shall be held in accommodation that is suitable as regards construction, size (including exercise provision) temperature, lighting, ventilation, drainage and cleanliness.
 


Animals will be supplied with adequate and suitable food, drink and bedding material, and be visited at suitable intervals.
 


The accommodation shall be such that the animal can take adequate exercise.
 


The animals shall be held in accommodation that secures that the animals will not escape.
 


All reasonable precautions shall be taken to prevent and control the spread of infectious and contagious diseases. Facilities for isolation shall be available when required.
 


Adequate precautions shall be taken for the protection of the animals in the case of fire or other emergency. An emergency evacuation plan and a notice with emergency contact details shall be drawn up and displayed where appropriate. 
 


The animals shall not be moved from the premises without the prior notification and approval of the Local Authority. Where animals are transported, the transportation will comply with current welfare of animals during transport legislation. 
 


The licence holder shall hold a current Insurance Policy that insures him against liability for any damage that may be caused by the animals. The terms of the Policy shall be to the satisfaction of the Local Authority.
 


The premises and any animals or other thing therein may be inspected at all reasonable times by an Officer or Veterinary Surgeon authorised by the Council under Section 3 (1) of the Act.

Hope this is of interest to all.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats similar to mine, except I dont have to tell them im moving an animal as long as its to another licensed keeper.


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## thewifestolemyaccount (Mar 24, 2008)

Aberdeenshire Council have asked me to direct any further enquiries to the local Dog Warden!!


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

Viper said:


> Whats wrong with a copperhead or something a little less fiesty ?


Why would a copperhead be less fiesty than a puff? I've never met a chilled out copperhead. I've not met many but not one has been what i'd call chilled. Certainly no more than a puff.

People often recommend copperheads as a first hot not because of their attitude but because of their simple husbandry requirements and the fact that lots of bites only require pain management and nothing more severe than that.

the notion that copperheads are chilled out is something you should be very careful about spreading. You are less likely to drop dead from a copperhead bite than a puff adder, and copperheads are straight forward to keep, but it's not necessarily going to be a calmer snake, in fact you could find the reverse is true depending on the specimines in question.


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