# looking for my Baby Puff Adders



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi ,
Just wondered if anyone knows the whereabouts of my baby puff adders. ?
I bred them and a good friend of mine was looking after them temorarily getting them to feed , as I was going through a stressful time.
I have pictures of the babys , so can recognise them .

The snakes were seized , along with a breeding pair of sharp nosed vipers , a snouty cobra , a couple of adult puffs and 1 male nasicornis .

If anyone knows were they are , could they get in touch please 

Thanks,
Al


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

hmmm, me thinks you have seen classifieds matey, i have to say, iv asked about the deinags buddy, i didnt know they were yours, i will obviously be walking away from them, it all slots into place now, i see the seized merchandise(or some of it) is for sale in the classifieds bud.you lost a few didnt you???


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

by the way al, i believe it was actually 2 breeding pairs of deinags.


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Mate yeah I did ..
At the time the stress of my divorce was getting to me, I had to pass over non-feeders and reduce stress as it was such a dark time .. 

Would be nice to see those buby puffs again for sure


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

oh indeed mate, were the older puffs and nasi male not also yours or am i getting confused?


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes Mate , nasi was .


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

drop the guy a pm al, im sure he would listen to your comments, you may even be able to collect them from him, you are the only person who has bred lake nakurus in the uk this year(i think) so if these are lake nakurus they are morethan likely yours.


----------



## bloodpython22 (Feb 19, 2010)

Al Hyde said:


> Hi ,
> Just wondered if anyone knows the whereabouts of my baby puff adders. ?
> I bred them and a good friend of mine was looking after them temorarily getting them to feed , as I was going through a stressful time.
> I have pictures of the babys , so can recognise them .
> ...


Sounds like the snakes richard is selling I do have his mobile no if you want it


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

hi andy, pm me that number please, also, richard who???do i know him?


----------



## bloodpython22 (Feb 19, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> hi andy, pm me that number please, also, richard who???do i know him?


Hi mark iv text it you mate


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

If I came into possession of some DWA species such as the ones mentioned in Al's post I would have a pretty good idea where they originated from.

Am I missing something here or what?


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Graeme ,
It was common Knowledge that they were mine .. I thought us ven guys all stuck together . We're a small community after all .


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Graeme , apparently these puff adders and the nasicornis should have been returned to me on the day they were seized . 
They never belonged to the guy and he made it clear that they were not part of his personal collection


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Al Hyde said:


> Graeme , apparently these puff adders and the nasicornis should have been returned to me on the day they were seized .
> They never belonged to the guy and he made it clear that they were not part of his personal collection


Why is "one of our own" selling your livestock?

How did he come into possession of your stock Al?

I would be livid and suspect you are.

Pm me or get me on facebook if I can help you I will

are these the one being advertised by Perdators on the classified section?


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> Why is "one of our own" selling your livestock?
> 
> How did he come into possession of your stock Al?
> 
> ...


So we now know the answer !


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Graeme ,
I am pretty pissed if i'm honest... 

I don't know if it is the same as being advertised, but it seems pretty damn spooky that all species being sold are exactly the same as what was seized and I was told they'd been sent to someone in the Midlands or thereabouts . 
As I said , No problem if it's a misunderstanding , but then my name was on the tubs the puffs were in when they were taken. 
I really thought us Hot keepers stuck together 

I'll always know them , I photographed the snakes and they're Nakurus . I'm the only person to breed Nakurus in UK so far . I know Mark Craddocks have hooked up, but she hasn't dropped yet .
Cheers Graeme .. you're a good friend 
Al


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

You know what? 
I lay in bed last night and thought about this .

My very good herp friends that have stood by me and know that i've been through some SERIOUS dark s**t these past 19 months .. and I still continue to do so . 
This is much akin to me lending a hi-fi to someone, they then get a visit from the debt collectors and my hi-fi is taken and sold on for profit . 
There are many good sincere people in the ven community , and then there's those that'll always be just the dealers and collectors out for a quick buck. 
The Good guys look out for each other watch each others back, actually study , learn and pass on info . 

I've got far more important things to worry about at this moment in my life , and I know damn well that no decent herpetologist will buy any of those Nakuru's .
In truth .. If I got them back I was going to hand them out FREE to my good herper friends who'd actually appreciate having such a stunning fairly new locale of arietans .. it aint about the cash ... even though i'm broke .

I can rest assured , that none of the good guys will buy 'em ..
Whatever, i'm letting it go 

Thanks to all the decent , knowledgable and sincere friends I have in this interest

Al


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Al, 

I've not heard the full story of what is going but sounds like someone is being a right shit. I hope you get your collection back soon!

Nix


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Thanks Nix .. really appreciate it


----------



## bloodpython22 (Feb 19, 2010)

Al Hyde said:


> Hey Thanks Nix .. really appreciate it


Hi AL 
How things get better for you, after you text me other
Day I sent that bloke a text and email and received a very
Sarcastic email but if I can help I will


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks Andrew ..
Doesn't matter mate , I've got DECENT herper friends .
Whatever happened to .."Oh Crikey Al, didn't realise these were yours , sorry mate , come and collect 'em" 
Then.. "Cheers , no worries , Thanks for giving them back " 

It really doesn't matter. Except for the puffs , which will probably end up in freezer , as king food , or sold on to someone that does not know what they're letting themself in for .
Lake Nakuru puffs as adults DO NOT act like other puffs .. trust me, i've kept many .. They still throw out surprise moves every time they are dealt with . 

While we're at it 
The Snouty is not a female .. it's male 
The adult puffs are not 1.1 .. they're both female

And the babies, unsexed ? If you cannot sex one of the large bitis visually .. you shouldn't have 'em .. simple fact .. ask any experienced Herper

So.. Like I said .. walking away with my head held high .. I know they're mine 

Tme to worry about more important things .. like STUDYING bitis and interacting with the decent members of this interest 

Cheers Andrew,
Al


----------



## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

Hey Al, I don't like counting my chickens, so to speak, but if my female drops, you can have as many as you want for free to dispose of as you feel fit.


Al Hyde said:


> Hi Graeme ,
> I am pretty pissed if i'm honest...
> 
> I don't know if it is the same as being advertised, but it seems pretty damn spooky that all species being sold are exactly the same as what was seized and I was told they'd been sent to someone in the Midlands or thereabouts .
> ...


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

He He ... Hello Mark !!
Eeer , you know where i'm at and the point i'm trying to make here  
As I said , if they came back i'd give them to some close friends that genuinely would appreciate , care for and study them 

But, most kind of you old bean 
Hope the same applies when you breed Cornuta and when our good friends Parviocula drop   !!


----------



## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Aw hope you get them back huni! Let me know if you hear of any in my neck of the woods, will go round for a polite word


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Helen, as always .. you are wonderful  x


----------



## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

so buddy, would i be correct in assuming that the recipient of "ill gotten gains" has to date not done the "decent thing" and contacted you back as yet???i assume hat he is not responding hoping it will all go away.i appreciate the guy got them as a psl holder so in fact he did nothing wrong in aquiring them, however, damage limitation now would be preferable i believe,

selling animals for vast proffits after you have been GIVEN them is all well and good, but if some are not to be included in that sale they should be offered back to the legitemate owner, hes not actually losing any money is he???????????????????????????????


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi mate .. your assumptions are absolutely correct .


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

have you got this sorted Al?


----------



## snakedude (Jul 28, 2007)

Al, I have to say I find this whole situation very distasteful. The snakes in question were being housed by a mutual friend in good faith while you were unable to manage them and then seized and passed to someone who is now selling them at a vastly inflated price? I'm rather annoyed given that myself and snapping chap had actually arranged for some of these babies to be ours, so therefore this guy is technically selling our snakes as well, now that surely isn't on?

Hope things get sorted bud,

Mike.


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

snakedude said:


> Al, I have to say I find this whole situation very distasteful. The snakes in question were being housed by a mutual friend in good faith while you were unable to manage them and then seized and passed to someone who is now selling them at a vastly inflated price? I'm rather annoyed given that myself and snapping chap had actually arranged for some of these babies to be ours, so therefore this guy is technically selling our snakes as well, now that surely isn't on?
> 
> Hope things get sorted bud,
> 
> Mike.


I take it the Guy is still advertising them?


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Mike ,Graeme, Simon.

Yup, Nothing has changed ... All I can say is- the guys selling stolen goods as far as i'm concerned . 
Meh.. Certainly will not give his business a good clean reputation .

cheers for your support 
Al


----------



## rinkels (Jun 17, 2011)

Al Hyde said:


> Hi Mike ,Graeme, Simon.
> 
> Yup, Nothing has changed ... All I can say is- the guys selling stolen goods as far as i'm concerned .
> Meh.. Certainly will not give his business a good clean reputation .
> ...


i hope you get this all sorted mate.


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

HI Al,

I know we dont really know each other but it is an interesting story. surly if following the seizure these animals were seized and they were made aware they were yours (and this can be proven which from what you have said you can) surly legally you can put a legally action in place for all the animals to be returned to you. if you contact the organisation/individuals who were involved in the seizure they should return them to you. if not could you not press other legal action?? 

Im sure it would be complicated, and with what has gone on so far extra stress. But it might be worth it. 

Jay


----------



## happycallis (Mar 23, 2010)

They are now up for sale in the snake classifieds.


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Spikebrit said:


> HI Al,
> 
> I know we dont really know each other but it is an interesting story. surly if following the seizure these animals were seized and they were made aware they were yours (and this can be proven which from what you have said you can) surly legally you can put a legally action in place for all the animals to be returned to you. if you contact the organisation/individuals who were involved in the seizure they should return them to you. if not could you not press other legal action??
> 
> ...


The legal situation is very complex, however, both the vendor and the Local Authority that seized and disposed of the snakes have liabilities. It would be worthwhile the owner of the animals notifying the LA of his interests in this matter, ASAP.


----------



## predators (Oct 12, 2010)

happycallis said:


> They are now up for sale in the snake classifieds.


To all those wanting to get involved in this maybe u should look at the facts and ethics of the situation, firstly when things are seized they are seized for a very good reason ie NO LICENCE, wrongly kept etc, secondly if the authorities can't re-home things they get destroyed (not very good for the creatures involved), thirdly whoever takes them has them LEGALLY signed over to keep,sell,destroy etc, fourth the NEW OWNER has to house,feed,clean,look after the seized animals this may well mean build new vivs,venom boxes, buy new stats,viv fernishings etc none of which comes cheap, fifth when animals are seized ONLY the police/authoritys know were they come from therefore with all this taken into consideration the vast amount of these threads are bull shit, and as for bloodpython 22 he recons on he's all these venomous etc he's not got a licence his self like many others he's a dreamer, al has had my number a while and i've told him he's welcome to ring me which would be far better than bitching


----------



## predators (Oct 12, 2010)

Al Hyde said:


> Hi Mike ,Graeme, Simon.
> 
> Yup, Nothing has changed ... All I can say is- the guys selling stolen goods as far as i'm concerned .
> Meh.. Certainly will not give his business a good clean reputation .
> ...


You may want to ask yourself if it's an inteligent decision to let someone with No licence or pl to take charge of highly dangerous reptiles? As someone who seems to be "a leading expert" it seems an incredibly dangerous thing to do, it seems you are looking to slate others when it's you who is to blame for this situation, if you drive a car with NO license your car gets seized and crushed or sold, if you have a gun and NO license your gun gets seized you see were I'm coming from? If people do things correctly as they should these situations wouldn't arise.


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

My response to this should not be taken as I am taking any side in this matter, purely commenting on the situation, which is most unfortunate and very regrettable. Under section 4 of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act there are powers of seizure for unlicensed animals. However, the Act is an old Act predating the Human Rights Act so the unfettered powers of disposal as laid down in the Act are highly questionable today! Certainly a Local Authority can seize and detain, but disposal of personal property without the authority of a Court Order is highly dubious, more so if the competent authority is informed the holder is no the owner of the property as I understand is the case in this situation. If the seizing authority is not in lawful position of the property clearly they cannot transfer ownership legally to a third party, especially for a commercial activity! Certainly the third party would be well advised to seek independent legal advice on this issue before considering entering into any transactions concerning the disputed property. Or in short come on guys get this sorted between yourselves!!


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

predators said:


> You may want to ask yourself if it's an inteligent decision to let someone with No licence or pl to take charge of highly dangerous reptiles? As someone who seems to be "a leading expert" it seems an incredibly dangerous thing to do, it seems you are looking to slate others when it's you who is to blame for this situation, if you drive a car with NO license your car gets seized and crushed or sold, if you have a gun and NO license your gun gets seized you see were I'm coming from? If people do things correctly as they should these situations wouldn't arise.


Firstly , I've only just signed in and recieved your number .. Secondly .. Yes , in that situation the Car may get crushed . But these are living creatures and it is akin to baliffs removing something from someones property that does not belong to the person in debt , then not returning it to the rightful owner . 
As to letting this person 'Look after' the snakes I was, and still am totaly confident that he is indeed very capable , professional and reliable enough to do so , piece of paper or not . 
There are many lisenced keepers that should not be .
I have broken no law here , just asked a damn good herpetologist and friend to help me out over a difficult period . 

The point I am trying to make is .. the Authorities , and indeed yourself , must have known that the snakes were mine and I would've expected at least to be notified with the offer of coming to get them back .

I will call you and have a chat 
Cheers,
Al


----------



## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Ok.. Richard and I have just spoken on the phone and the matter is sorted .
Richard genuinely was not aware that they were my puffs and there are no hard feelings on either side .  

Case closed peacefully and amicably 

All the best everyone 
Al


----------



## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

So lets go back am I right in thinking that you was on hard times dark times bad times we have all been there at some point and yes I am sorry for anyone in that position. Am i right in thinking that you let someone (luck after )your DWA who did not have the licence to keep them.......


Also stress try this £900 pcm to find 2nd divorce on its way step son who had cancer while all this is going on I had 13 WDB that would not feed 2 shops (wife and me had 1 each ) 2 sons in and out of troubble step daughter aged 13 going on 18....ho and a lump in ma balls......but not cancer aint life good


----------



## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

brian said:


> So lets go back am I right in thinking that you was on hard times dark times bad times we have all been there at some point and yes I am sorry for anyone in that position. Am i right in thinking that you let someone (luck after )your DWA who did not have the licence to keep them.......
> 
> 
> Also stress try this £900 pcm to find 2nd divorce on its way step son who had cancer while all this is going on I had 13 WDB that would not feed 2 shops (wife and me had 1 each ) 2 sons in and out of troubble step daughter aged 13 going on 18....ho and a lump in ma balls......but not cancer aint life good


What's the point in that post? It's not exactly a competition whose been in the worst position is it! Have some respect if you don't know the full story.


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Al Hyde said:


> Ok.. Richard and I have just spoken on the phone and the matter is sorted .
> Richard genuinely was not aware that they were my puffs and there are no hard feelings on either side .
> 
> Case closed peacefully and amicably
> ...


I am very pleased to hear this unfortunate issue has been resolved amicably, well done guys.


----------



## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

nsn89 said:


> What's the point in that post? It's not exactly a competition whose been in the worst position is it! Have some respect if you don't know the full story.


NO sorry not a competition but why give your dwa to someone is not in care of the licence to keep them. Like someone said would you give your pride and joy to your neighbour to drive round who has no licence to drive knowing you might just lose your car.......would you !!!

NO I think NOT....!!!!!
SO
Would you give your DWA (if you have them) 

They is enough people on here who can keep have them and would have collected and kept them for him and gave back at the right time when he wanted them back in is life and that would have been a lot less stress on him aswell :2thumb:


----------

