# Bearded dragon basking spot to high help



## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

Hi guys , so I managed to get everything I need and in order but now my basking spot surface is nearly at 150F I'm concerned he will burn him self it's a stone/rock type hide that u can lay on to bask 
Ideas? The watt is 100watt 
I have a 75 watt if needed advice is so appreciated thank you


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

Personally I would reccomend using a thermostat on the basking spot. You can then set your desired temprature and the stat will control it without needing to worry too much about wattage and reducing the chances of overheating in the vivarium.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

supatips said:


> Personally I would reccomend using a thermostat on the basking spot. You can then set your desired temprature and the stat will control it without needing to worry too much about wattage and reducing the chances of overheating in the vivarium.


I'm a first time reptile owner and he is a rescue so I'm proper paranoid I've read BD's can bask comfortably at 160f but he is either avoiding the stone hide surface under the light or is in the middle of the viv 
I read some surfaces hold the heat more than others should I put his bark hide under instead of this stone thing ? 

Also where and how much is a thermostat I can use to control his light? Thanks a lot


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> I've read BD's can bask comfortably at 160f


Sorry but I think this is wrong. I would not risk any higher than 115f otherwise you will struggle to get a cool end that is suitable.



> Also where and how much is a thermostat I can use to control his light?


What kind of bulb is it? If it is a light emitting bulb then you need a dimming thermostat like this:


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## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

You certainly need a dimming thermostat. New they will cost around £50 but you may find one cheaper in the classifieds. I would certainly be swapping the 100W for the 75W. Do you know what the air temperature is in the hot side and also the cool? You really need to know these and without a thermostat and such a high basking spot you could be putting the dragons health or even life in danger if the cool end isn't cool enough. 



Gavin.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

gavgav04 said:


> You certainly need a dimming thermostat. New they will cost around £50 but you may find one cheaper in the classifieds. I would certainly be swapping the 100W for the 75W. Do you know what the air temperature is in the hot side and also the cool? You really need to know these and without a thermostat and such a high basking spot you could be putting the dragons health or even life in danger if the cool end isn't cool enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Gavin.


Yeah I wrote all the temps down today I will defiantly get a thermostat! 
The air it's self is at 90F plus.
The cool end is 85F. 
I will swap the bulbs over 

Thanks a lot  any other advice is really helpful the last thing I want is to harm a dragon I just rescued 
Can u also offer advice for his constant attempts to climb up his viv back wall? It's bare I have not put anything up but did get a bark log and put it on his side wall near his plants if he wanted to climb he attempted climbing on his plants but failed I let him out and put some towels from my floor to the window ledge with me watching he climbed up it 
He's becoming rather active since picking him up on Wednesday


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

gavgav04 said:


> You certainly need a dimming thermostat. New they will cost around £50 but you may find one cheaper in the classifieds. I would certainly be swapping the 100W for the 75W. Do you know what the air temperature is in the hot side and also the cool? You really need to know these and without a thermostat and such a high basking spot you could be putting the dragons health or even life in danger if the cool end isn't cool enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Gavin.


Swapped the 100watt to a 75watt 
His lights are now off for the night. 
I swapped the stone basking spot with a tree barked log type thing which he did happily thank me for I think he's now asleep beside it. 
I also emailed a few people/ companies about the habistat will get right on that. 

If u could help with one last thing : he came to me on a carrot , locus diet since birth, he is offered fruits and greens , veg anything I can offer I offer him fresh daily I prepare daily for him 1-2 hours after his lights on 
He pretty much walks over it and that's it , I'm out of ideas I've tried worms in there I've tried hand feeding I've tried floating in the bath with him ive tried sprinkling from a higher position for him I even spray it with water for him if he wants to attempt licking it 

He's thin so starving is not an option I've reduced his insects but sooner or later he has to eat them because I'm so worried I give in and give him a Mario (sorry) worm or 2 
I even tried fruity baby food on it he nearly spat it at me so I threw it in the bin 
I'm literally at the end of ideas any help is so appreciated


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Swapped the 100watt to a 75watt
> His lights are now off for the night.
> I swapped the stone basking spot with a tree barked log type thing which he did happily thank me for I think he's now asleep beside it.
> I also emailed a few people/ companies about the habistat will get right on that.
> ...


has he been to the vet? is he eating anything? they usually wouldnt let there weight drop low if food is available and there isnt a problem. they wouldnt be picky to the point where it started to hurt them. i fear there might be something wrong with him, i remember you from the other day no improvement. if hes thin feed him what he will eat get his weight up, worry about variety when hes back on weight. i would advise worms at this point, anything fatty. 


post a pic!!

need a stat you can get cheap ones on ebay if your stuck for money for like a tenna, the only prob is that its austalian and you need an adaptor. let me know ill point you in the right direction.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> has he been to the vet? is he eating anything? they usually wouldnt let there weight drop low if food is available and there isnt a problem. they wouldnt be picky to the point where it started to hurt them. i fear there might be something wrong with him, i remember you from the other day no improvement. if hes thin feed him what he will eat get his weight up, worry about variety when hes back on weight. i would advise worms at this point, anything fatty.
> 
> 
> post a pic!!
> ...


Hello again yes it's me lol 
No he ate literally a tiny bit of bell pepper and a bit of collared green he ate these in the same moment as he was catching a cricket it was by mistake and has not touched anything since I even offered diced carrot to encourage him nothing. I took him to the vet she said he seems fine and apart from the obvious should be healthy with in a year or less 
Crickets did not go down to well he maybe had 20-25 with in 2 days his aim is terrible and it's like if he misses he just gives up and there so fast for him he doesn't try again he will wait till there close unless I hand feed them to him. 
I'm honestly concerned about him not eating veg I'm also spraying his plants offering a small water bowl now and today I sprayed him with water twice as I'm worried for dehydration his skin is getting better though. 
I have Mario worms he seems to like these worms as I hand feed them or let one at a time next to him 

If I buy worms every 2-3 days and feed him will this not make him unwell? How will I give him the nutrition he needs and apart from crickets and locus what can I feed daily to fatten him up 
I have no got his weight on hand but what is the ideal weight for a male of 2-3 years of age? 
Also I put the food in the middle of the viv should I move it to the cool end completely ? I still want to offer him greens etc though at this point the money is coming from a fund I saved up months ago when I planned on getting a bearded dragon so I'm okay for money but should I breed worms and stuff for him will this be cheaper for us both? He seems so happy and active I just wish he would eat I can't list how much I have offered I even switched his leafy greens for diced peeled fruits and qorchets the worms are eating more greens than he is 
I've had him 4 days at which point should I start being worried about this enough to return him to the vet? Nearly £300 into him I don't want it to be wasted on death he is such a lovely boy


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## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

I wouldn't try reducing the live foods just to get it to eat greens especially when he is in a bad state. Get it eating a varied diet of live foods whilst still offering greens. When it gets up to a decent size/weight then maybe try others means to get it eating greens. Make sure all live foods are well gut loaded and things won't be too bad.



Gavin.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Hello again yes it's me lol
> No he ate literally a tiny bit of bell pepper and a bit of collared green he ate these in the same moment as he was catching a cricket it was by mistake and has not touched anything since I even offered diced carrot to encourage him nothing. I took him to the vet she said he seems fine and apart from the obvious should be healthy with in a year or less
> Crickets did not go down to well he maybe had 20-25 with in 2 days his aim is terrible and it's like if he misses he just gives up and there so fast for him he doesn't try again he will wait till there close unless I hand feed them to him.
> I'm honestly concerned about him not eating veg I'm also spraying his plants offering a small water bowl now and today I sprayed him with water twice as I'm worried for dehydration his skin is getting better though.
> ...


was it a reptile specialist? normal vet wont have a clue.

again if hes thin feed him what he will eat. 

breeding bugs is a good idea but the marios take alot of prep and time best just to buy them.

now worms arent the best diet for him but its something, try earth worms more of the good stuff in them less of the fat. keep offering greens he should have a go eventually. he might not be under weight but just small from a bad diet unless he is clearly under weight.

what substrate have you got? they dont like taking crickets from the sand might be why hes got crap aim, trying not to eat the sand. 

try not to worry unless hes really under weight and i mean stick tail and ribs


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

gavgav04 said:


> I wouldn't try reducing the live foods just to get it to eat greens especially when he is in a bad state. Get it eating a varied diet of live foods whilst still offering greens. When it gets up to a decent size/weight then maybe try others means to get it eating greens. Make sure all live foods are well gut loaded and things won't be too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Gavin.


im with this guy get his weight up first. it could be behavioural, bugs are more fun and they taste nicer. get his weight up and then try with green, im thinking if you target train it ie handfeeding, once hes learnt to take food off you you might be able to trick it, starve him for a bit then do one crocket and then veg see if he notices.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Have to agree about the veggies you are stressing too much about him eating them. He needs to get weight back on him so feed him what he wants to eat. Crickets can be put in the fridge for 10 mins to slow them down if he is having difficulty catching them. Most beardies wont chase their food anyway as they are lazy.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> was it a reptile specialist? normal vet wont have a clue.
> 
> again if hes thin feed him what he will eat.
> 
> ...


Hey couldn't see if I answered this. 
He will eat a few Mario worms 5 is the most now sometimes won't eat them at all. Advice on other things to feed? I will get earth worms. Tbh he is underweight to me the vet said he was under weight you can feel his ribs very clearly his back bone is pretty pronounced as well he does not look like a 2-3 year old male 

When I had the crickets in he was on tile with a small amount like a hand full of bark skattered around. 
If u can tell me how to upload photos I can show u him before and now 
He is in shed his entire beard is shedding looks silly but he is not patchy no more 
I was told they like there food colourful , is this true if so what veg can I give that's colourful?:/


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Hey couldn't see if I answered this.
> He will eat a few Mario worms 5 is the most now sometimes won't eat them at all. Advice on other things to feed? I will get earth worms. Tbh he is underweight to me the vet said he was under weight you can feel his ribs very clearly his back bone is pretty pronounced as well he does not look like a 2-3 year old male
> 
> When I had the crickets in he was on tile with a small amount like a hand full of bark skattered around.
> ...


this is the thing i was told to use to upload pics TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting works well if you havent got a crappy android. 
food wise there loads of stuff have a look on this site Online Reptile Shop - Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.
worm wise theres:
earthworms- lot of protein
waxworms
sun beetle grubs pachnoda these are big, really good for building weight up
then your marios mealworms 
calci worms- these are good cant escape out of food bowls and you can mix them in with you veg provide some movement, he wont be able to pick them out either cos they are small. 
then you have:
cockroaches- dubia- easy to contain, not infesting in nature
locust
crickets 

all of these are easy to breed the only thing you have to give them is your time. im breeding earthworms(piss easy), hissing cockroaches, giant african land snails, and millipeeds. i have a monitor and it can be difficult to get food large enough which is why i breed them.

veg wise try to get one of each colour of the rainbow, do a bit of research on whats good and whats bad should be fine. you can get weed packets on ebay as well that might be a good idea, ive heard from others that if it looks like an actual plant sticking out of the ground they are more inclined to eat it. dont quote me on this though its just hear say.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> this is the thing i was told to use to upload pics TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting works well if you havent got a crappy android.
> food wise there loads of stuff have a look on this site Online Reptile Shop - Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.
> worm wise theres:
> earthworms- lot of protein
> ...


Thank you for all your help on all my threads you have really helped me and my sister who is also caring for Titan 
I will take everything u said into consideration 
We were thinking about growing stuff in a new viv we are building (bigger space) what do u recommend other then weeds ? 

I couldn't get the other site to work but if u can follow this link this is a photo of him taken today he is shedding http://postimg.org/gallery/295gqeqtu/


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Thank you for all your help on all my threads you have really helped me and my sister who is also caring for Titan
> I will take everything u said into consideration
> We were thinking about growing stuff in a new viv we are building (bigger space) what do u recommend other then weeds ?
> 
> I couldn't get the other site to work but if u can follow this link this is a photo of him taken today he is shedding Postimage.org / gallery - image, image


no problem,
to me he doesnt look to bad, he needs to put on some weight and he is small but from what you have said hes been through hes come out the other side looking quite healthy. i would aim to stick a bit more weight on him but dont go too far with it they can get fat easier than getting thin. hes not far off i like to keep my herps on the good side of thin though someone else might have a different opinion. i would get some worms and that over the next few weeks and then try to get his diet back to normal. 

as for growing stuff there loads of stuff you can use for decor, if thats what you mean? but he will eat it and probably rip it apart. 
what i meant with the weed packets, grow them in a plant pot(no fertilizer, no pesticides) and then stick it in there with him. if he dont eat all of it or none of it, its a live plant thats just going to continue to grow. replace them when hes wrecked it. you can get them specifically for beardies on ebay uk.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

for decor, find stuff you like and check if its on herehttp://www.zutrition.com/reptiles-and-harmful-plants/
this is a highly trusted site zoos use this, as well as the one i work with. they have alot of other stuff on here that might be interesting to read. nutritional requirements for different animals(i think) and whats in the foods that make them good.

this might help you too its good and bad things to feed herbivorous reptiles and how othen to use them What fruits and vegetables to feed your lizard or reptile. Reptile fruits and vegetables Diets. What fruits and vegetables to feed your iguana, bearded dragon, monkey-tail skink, uromastyx and other lizards and reptiles.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> no problem,
> to me he doesnt look to bad, he needs to put on some weight and he is small but from what you have said hes been through hes come out the other side looking quite healthy. i would aim to stick a bit more weight on him but dont go too far with it they can get fat easier than getting thin. hes not far off i like to keep my herps on the good side of thin though someone else might have a different opinion. i would get some worms and that over the next few weeks and then try to get his diet back to normal.
> 
> as for growing stuff there loads of stuff you can use for decor, if thats what you mean? but he will eat it and probably rip it apart.
> what i meant with the weed packets, grow them in a plant pot(no fertilizer, no pesticides) and then stick it in there with him. if he dont eat all of it or none of it, its a live plant thats just going to continue to grow. replace them when hes wrecked it. you can get them specifically for beardies on ebay uk.


Thanks a lot 
I'm linking 2 photos from when we got him the photos u saw are from today so a week since getting him. 
Can u see if he has gained or lost weight ? I can't tell


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Thanks a lot
> I'm linking 2 photos from when we got him the photos u saw are from today so a week since getting him.
> Can u see if he has gained or lost weight ? I can't tell [URL=http://s3.postimg.org/ur1yngrlr/image.jpg]image[/url]
> 
> [URL=http://s3.postimg.org/ups0u1prz/image.jpg]image[/url]


its the tail width you want to compare and i cant see that, do one of his tail. i wouldnt have thought there would be much improvement on his weight after a week they take a bit longer than that, it will be a few months before you notice a big difference. 

the more and more photos i see the more and more i think you got nothing to worry about. forget how big his stomach is, look at his tail if, its got weight on it hes fine. honestly i think the vets worrying you over nothing, hes small, that would be from poor diet and husbandry but i think hes fine. 

looks like a she to me(not sure) bit small to be a boy, but poor conditions from his last house could have something to do with that. i dont actually know how to tell but a lot of lizards are sexually dimorthic (different in some way) for example iguanas have the neck ball thing(i think). look for them online and check.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

whatch this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwXjeot9m8w
sexing dragons, might be an idea to look what a hemipene looks like before you do. long sausage shaped lumps

the one with the black beard is probably the best one you can see it on


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> its the tail width you want to compare and i cant see that, do one of his tail. i wouldnt have thought there would be much improvement on his weight after a week they take a bit longer than that, it will be a few months before you notice a big difference.
> 
> the more and more photos i see the more and more i think you got nothing to worry about. forget how big his stomach is, look at his tail if, its got weight on it hes fine. honestly i think the vets worrying you over nothing, hes small, that would be from poor diet and husbandry but i think hes fine.
> 
> looks like a she to me(not sure) bit small to be a boy, but poor conditions from his last house could have something to do with that. i dont actually know how to tell but a lot of lizards are sexually dimorthic (different in some way) for example iguanas have the neck ball thing(i think). look for them online and check.


Thank you 
Here's the only photo I have with his tail in 
I'm in London recovering from my op my sister sent me the photos today 
Hope this helps http://postimg.org/image/7u6030wif/


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Thank you
> Here's the only photo I have with his tail in
> I'm in London recovering from my op my sister sent me the photos today
> Hope this helps View image: image


base of the tail could be a bit bigger, as i said wont see a difference yet. keep him on a high fat diet for a bit he should recover quickly. i have seen a lot worse try to keep that for piece of mind. being fat is a lot worse he will get better soon. its a long drawn out process rehabilitating reptiles im afraid, he could go a long time showing no improvement but he will. keep him on the worms try and vary it a bit. im sorry i cant be more help on getting him to eat crickets as i said a little while ago i would usually starve but i would just keep doing what your doing in this case.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> base of the tail could be a bit bigger, as i said wont see a difference yet. keep him on a high fat diet for a bit he should recover quickly. i have seen a lot worse try to keep that for piece of mind. being fat is a lot worse he will get better soon. its a long drawn out process rehabilitating reptiles im afraid, he could go a long time showing no improvement but he will. keep him on the worms try and vary it a bit. im sorry i cant be more help on getting him to eat crickets as i said a little while ago i would usually starve but i would just keep doing what your doing in this case.


Thanks a lot u been great


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Thanks a lot u been great


:2thumb:


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

He looks fine to me, his hip bones are not showing which is a good sign.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Debbie1962 said:


> He looks fine to me, his hip bones are not showing which is a good sign.


i said that vets over worrying the guy aint he


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> whatch this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwXjeot9m8w
> sexing dragons, might be an idea to look what a hemipene looks like before you do. long sausage shaped lumps
> 
> the one with the black beard is probably the best one you can see it on


http://postimg.org/gallery/i4oqxmi2/

We can't see or feel any lumps 
Btw he is still shedding how long do they shed for ?


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> http://postimg.org/gallery/i4oqxmi2/
> 
> We can't see or feel any lumps
> Btw he is still shedding how long do they shed for ?


dude looks like a lady! they can shed for some time, things you want to look out for are dry orange patches especially around the toes and the end of the tail. they can lose toes, end of the tail if its left too long. really make sure the humidity's right. if it is going bad, invest in some shed ease if you want, try soaking him for like half hour. 

what substrate do you have?


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

if your after a name change Metis is a girl titan in greek mythology.

shedding problems can be caused by a lack of calcium as well poor humidity but i know your trying your best with both of them and thats all you can do at the min. 

post if you have problems, im sure if you search through the threads there will be one in depth about this.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> dude looks like a lady! they can shed for some time, things you want to look out for are dry orange patches especially around the toes and the end of the tail. they can lose toes, end of the tail if its left too long. really make sure the humidity's right. if it is going bad, invest in some shed ease if you want, try soaking him for like half hour.
> 
> what substrate do you have?


It looks female?? Oh god what else have them owners lied to me about. 
I use soil and sand mix (more soil then sand) under that is tiles


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> if your after a name change Metis is a girl titan in greek mythology.
> 
> shedding problems can be caused by a lack of calcium as well poor humidity but i know your trying your best with both of them and thats all you can do at the min.
> 
> post if you have problems, im sure if you search through the threads there will be one in depth about this.


His food is always dusted with calcium dust he is not rough and dry anymore he feels (sounds stupid) healthy 
Nothing like this is on him or her or whatever lol yet in the past his tip of his tail is kinda bent a tiny bit but other than that he's doing well 
He has bad shed when I got him I can only assume he is shedding that off and is also shedding another lot of his body off he looks great in colour now though 

Thanks for the help


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> It looks female?? Oh god what else have them owners lied to me about.
> I use soil and sand mix (more soil then sand) under that is tiles


great stuff thats the best thing for lizards like these from my own experiences and from what i hear from other people. if you can get her to burrow that would be best, as for tricks to get him to do that for my monitors i raise the temp but i know you have been having problems so just leave that be. other than that make sure when you squeeze it, it molds together like snow. you need to have a dry place as well( your basking area ) make sure thats dry try to keep the soil not wet but moldable.

you have a humidity guage? 

what you want to do is add water to the substrate, see how much it rises and then remember how much you add and how often to gauge how much and how often you need to do it. for my hatchling bosc (tiny by the way people) in my 4 ft viv with a good 8-9 inches of soil i add 4-6 litres to the soil every 3-4 days to get about 60% humidity in the middle. now dont use that as a guide they need much higher temps and humidity but i was just using that as an example. just get your humidity bout right if its too high add less to low add more.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> His food is always dusted with calcium dust he is not rough and dry anymore he feels (sounds stupid) healthy
> Nothing like this is on him or her or whatever lol yet in the past his tip of his tail is kinda bent a tiny bit but other than that he's doing well
> He has bad shed when I got him I can only assume he is shedding that off and is also shedding another lot of his body off he looks great in colour now though
> 
> Thanks for the help


sounds like she is improving, i thought maybe he was having problems from before you got him and he come to you on a bad shed. sounds fine, bent tail can be an incubation issue or a genetic thing so nothing to worry about.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> great stuff thats the best thing for lizards like these from my own experiences and from what i hear from other people. if you can get her to burrow that would be best, as for tricks to get him to do that for my monitors i raise the temp but i know you have been having problems so just leave that be. other than that make sure when you squeeze it, it molds together like snow. you need to have a dry place as well( your basking area ) make sure thats dry try to keep the soil not wet but moldable.
> 
> you have a humidity guage?
> 
> what you want to do is add water to the substrate, see how much it rises and then remember how much you add and how often to gauge how much and how often you need to do it. for my hatchling bosc (tiny by the way people) in my 4 ft viv with a good 8-9 inches of soil i add 4-6 litres to the soil every 3-4 days to get about 60% humidity in the middle. now dont use that as a guide they need much higher temps and humidity but i was just using that as an example. just get your humidity bout right if its too high add less to low add more.


Gonna answer the other comment u had on this one , when I picked him/ her up she was very dry the owner said he had shed or was shedding but no signs apart from dry white marks everywhere and a tail of white flaking skin. Now that's all gone she's like yellow colour everywhere looks great. 

As for this question , the 4ft viv I have her in has allot of substrate in she moves it all and lays under a bark log that's perched on the wall like a hide for her but she does this in the cold/humid area and today has been sleeping a lot while having black beard (she was bathed ?) i think maybe she's stressed she has also puffed her bearded out once but she's shedding her beard not sure if it's all connected or why she's doing this. Temps are all okay and being monitored as had trouble with them. 
Yeah I do have a humidity gauge it stands at 70-80 normally but is at 65% 
Is this okay or should be add water ? I'm never sure with humidity I did have trouble with condensation when I put the substrate in but it's seemed to of stopped 
It's pretty really dry at the basking area end its mouldable everywhere else just not her hot end 

Silly question but can female dragons have PMS ? She has never in a week and a bit black bearded us and has never taken up the offer of using one of her hides till yesterday


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Gonna answer the other comment u had on this one , when I picked him/ her up she was very dry the owner said he had shed or was shedding but no signs apart from dry white marks everywhere and a tail of white flaking skin. Now that's all gone she's like yellow colour everywhere looks great.
> 
> As for this question , the 4ft viv I have her in has allot of substrate in she moves it all and lays under a bark log that's perched on the wall like a hide for her but she does this in the cold/humid area and today has been sleeping a lot while having black beard (she was bathed ?) i think maybe she's stressed she has also puffed her bearded out once but she's shedding her beard not sure if it's all connected or why she's doing this. Temps are all okay and being monitored as had trouble with them.
> Yeah I do have a humidity gauge it stands at 70-80 normally but is at 65%
> ...


i wouldnt add anymore water should read about 50 at the most your looking between 45-50. i would add some more substrate make it deeper on the hot end and then you wont have problems with it going dry other than on the top which it should be .good sign shes moving substrate around that will turn into burrowing. might want to add more sand make it dryer. 

make it as deep as your viv will allow you could look into making it bio active as well but ive not heard how good it works with these. stops it smelling and needing to change the substrate all the time if not at all, but no plants youll need to once a year if your doing this. i dont want over complicate all this so dont worry about that unless your really interested. 

she could be acting weird cos all the changes that have been made its nothing to worry about. 

for the min dont do anything leave her alone let her settle down, sheddings fine heats fine just leave her be. 

conclusion- make it a bit deeper add more sand, let the humidity drop. 

behavioral changes are probably normal 

leave her be for a week or two and then make the substrate deeper

all sounds really good :2thumb:


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> i wouldnt add anymore water should read about 50 at the most your looking between 45-50. i would add some more substrate make it deeper on the hot end and then you wont have problems with it going dry other than on the top which it should be .good sign shes moving substrate around that will turn into burrowing. might want to add more sand make it dryer.
> 
> make it as deep as your viv will allow you could look into making it bio active as well but ive not heard how good it works with these. stops it smelling and needing to change the substrate all the time if not at all, but no plants youll need to once a year if your doing this. i dont want over complicate all this so dont worry about that unless your really interested.
> 
> ...


Okay so the humidity well it's not a problem I think it went up because I put the soil sand mix in and had a lot of condensation it's calming down like I said it's normally higher 
I do have a big water bowl in there as she lays in it occasionally 

So it's doing down I will add more substrate to the max 
When u say leave her alone do u mean don't handle her ? She's so needy always wants to come out like if I open the tank she will try climb on my arm to my shoulder when I spot clean etc


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Okay so the humidity well it's not a problem I think it went up because I put the soil sand mix in and had a lot of condensation it's calming down like I said it's normally higher
> I do have a big water bowl in there as she lays in it occasionally
> 
> So it's doing down I will add more substrate to the max
> When u say leave her alone do u mean don't handle her ? She's so needy always wants to come out like if I open the tank she will try climb on my arm to my shoulder when I spot clean etc


just leave her tank be, if she enriched by being out dont stop.

animal behavior is a vague subject so i cant be sure the change has stressed her but it could be a possibility. 

when you say needy do you men she up on the glass trying to get out? this might be a problem, when you see needy i see a stereotypical behavior that could be a result from her last owner.

a stereotypical behavior is a repetitive behavior that has no purpose ie running up and down the glass. 

now she could have started this before with her last owner basically to pass time as something to do(bored). this had led to you misinterpreting it as wanting to come out. 

if you continue to feed into this she wont stop and you will create this behavior to become worse ie more frequent more aggressive(not angry).

although things are better now(more interesting) stereotypical behaviors generally dont stop it is common in all captive animals. 

i would stop getting her out at this point (when shes doing it) to try and not feed into this behavior. try to make her environment more interesting rather than outside more interesting. 

whatch this vid its hard to explain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HZi2pgZXc

on this vid at the zoo i work with this animal is pacing because it is nearly feeding time and this is the reaction it has. what the zoo has done is to not feed it during this time. do you see what i mean? this is really hard to explain please post back if you dont get me.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

you are basically positively reinforcing this pacing behavior because it gives her something to do, now im not saying she dont want to come out, im saying that you may have turned this behavior into wanting to come out. 

im really struggling to explain this please bare with me


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> just leave her tank be, if she enriched by being out dont stop.
> 
> animal behavior is a vague subject so i cant be sure the change has stressed her but it could be a possibility.
> 
> ...



Hey , so as I'm recovering my sister is looking after her. 
She's not having much luck from yesterday on wards 
Basically -------

so for about 2? Days now my bearded dragon has been sleeping and digging in the humid/cold part of her viv 
She is shedding well & under her beard was like a black line then After she was bathed she started to black beard from light to very dark she's also been spending a lot of time in the cold area under her hide digging etc no veg has been touched or nibbled at and she's refusing worms from yesterday so I'm not feeding her them for a few days?? 
She also flinched when my sister went to stroke her 
In a week and a bit I've owned her she has never done this however she has puffed her bearded up twice once yesterday and once Thursday last week I just assumed she was stretching her skin to shed. 
Her humidity is a bit high at 60% 
She doesn't gap much if at all 
She hasn't been basking much that we have seen 
She's digging her self 
Her viv is 4ft lights and temp are on 6-6pm on timers 
Heat in the air is 90-95 F
Cold side I think last check was 80 or 90 FI can re check 
And her basking spot was 106 F 
She's on soil sand mix she's obviously soaking in her water bowl sometimes as there's shed in there 
She's 2-3 years old no one is sure 
We recently found she was female 


http://postimg.org/image/dn28b5zcr/


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

To be honest I don't think that shot of the tail and vent is at the correct angle to tell the sex. We really need it to be straight on.

It sounds like the beardie has gone through quite a lot of stress in one way or another lately so it is not surprising that you are getting the black beard. And unless she is used to your sister then that could be another reason for it.

When shedding beardies do not need humidity then skin comes off better the drier it is, it tends to get really dry and crackly and then falls off. They do not have the same kind of skin as geckos which tend to need humidity to shed. Skin in the bowl of water could just have dropped off into it.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

you need to get the humidity down 60% is still high, look at ventilation and making that better. this sounds like a stress thing to me as i said just leave her be for a bit.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> you need to get the humidity down 60% is still high, look at ventilation and making that better. this sounds like a stress thing to me as i said just leave her be for a bit.


She has 4 long vents 2 down 2 up 
It's the soil sand 
When it was just tiles there was nearly no humidity 
I also crack the cold side of the viv open a jar to help ?


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

Debbie1962 said:


> To be honest I don't think that shot of the tail and vent is at the correct angle to tell the sex. We really need it to be straight on.
> 
> It sounds like the beardie has gone through quite a lot of stress in one way or another lately so it is not surprising that you are getting the black beard. And unless she is used to your sister then that could be another reason for it.
> 
> When shedding beardies do not need humidity then skin comes off better the drier it is, it tends to get really dry and crackly and then falls off. They do not have the same kind of skin as geckos which tend to need humidity to shed. Skin in the bowl of water could just have dropped off into it.


She's still shedding but it's calming down 
I'm attaching photos of her under neath for you please tell me if these are still no good 
http://postimg.org/gallery/1bdrwgzne/

I do appreciate your help and input


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Could you arch the tail more towards the body just to show up any hemipenal bulges more? Not too much as you don't want to hurt her/him.

I also agree that you need to get the humidity down so let the substrate dry out more before you do any more spraying.



> I do appreciate your help and input


Not a problem hun. We all want what is best for your beardie.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

Debbie1962 said:


> Could you arch the tail more towards the body just to show up any hemipenal bulges more? Not too much as you don't want to hurt her/him.
> 
> I also agree that you need to get the humidity down so let the substrate dry out more before you do any more spraying.
> 
> ...


Will take another photo tomorrow as beardie asleep now 
She's still sleeping in the cold side burrowed under the sand mix and she still black bearded I did handle her today and put her on the floor to roam for about 5 minutes and she stopped black bearding then though 
She will be moving to the guest room down stairs as I'm having up stairs re decorated and it's gonna be a few weeks before she's back up there I don't want to cause her even more stress with all the noise and people I will see how she is down stairs and see where she seems happier 

Also here's a wonder - how many Mario worms should a adult dragon consume in 1 sitting ? 
Also what's up with the worms smelling ? I had 3 boxes and decided to count and empty what's left in 1 box 34 is left almost a whole box of dead worms over 2 weeks have been counted ..is this right? I also feed the worms veg and fruit should I add water and if it's that smelly should I put them in a storage box that u would use under the bed etc ? I'm not planning to keep feeding these worms 
I want to change to black crickets , roaches , tomato worms etc these worms are horrid to smell and look at


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

It sounds like you have too much moisture in the morio tubs so no water needs adding. It may be the fresh foods your feeding, if they are particularly wet foods it could be causing the moisture. What are you putting in? I usually put around 12 morios in a bowl for my beardie, sometimes he eats them all sometimes not. I usually feed locusts though as his staple diet.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

Debbie1962 said:


> It sounds like you have too much moisture in the morio tubs so no water needs adding. It may be the fresh foods your feeding, if they are particularly wet foods it could be causing the moisture. What are you putting in? I usually put around 12 morios in a bowl for my beardie, sometimes he eats them all sometimes not. I usually feed locusts though as his staple diet.


I think I've tackled the smell I put them in a big tub with sand and soil mix and its I guess masked or replaced the smell 
I took the dead ones out etc. some times my beardie will eat 2 sometimes he will eat 5-6 the most he ate was 12 
I'm hoping to get some more of a variety soon as for locus he/she used to eat locus previously with old owners 
Maybe if I feed it locus every few days it will feel a bit like home ?


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Sounds like too much moisture in with the worms, add a bit of veg but not too much, good vents are needed as well. You have done the right thing putting them in a bigger tank. 3-4 at a time I would go for, if you were reading the thread on my berdie eaten by mealworms you know why. Just make sure shes eaten all of them. 

Same with all the bugs, condensation and a bad smell added with them all dying is too much humidity. Ive allways kept them in oats, wheat and bug grub ive never tried dirt, just be careful mixing stuff in cos I belive theres also a problem with mold killing them. 

Sexing thing I will leave to the other person cos it sounds like they have a bit more experience on this. 

Everything sounds like its on the up and you sound like your getting the flow of things. I think your are going to make a fantastic owner, alot of people dont look further than the pet shop for advice. Any other problems pls let us know but the problems you have been explaining in the last few will pass with time.


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> Sounds like too much moisture in with the worms, add a bit of veg but not too much, good vents are needed as well. You have done the right thing putting them in a bigger tank. 3-4 at a time I would go for, if you were reading the thread on my berdie eaten by mealworms you know why. Just make sure shes eaten all of them.
> 
> Same with all the bugs, condensation and a bad smell added with them all dying is too much humidity. Ive allways kept them in oats, wheat and bug grub ive never tried dirt, just be careful mixing stuff in cos I belive theres also a problem with mold killing them.
> 
> ...



Hi , I've had to move her from my bedroom to my guest room down stairs as upstairs is being decorated , she seems happier :/ where I got her from she was in the living room with 3 big dogs a turtle and 4 room mates 
Do you think the peace of my bedroom was to silent for her? 
We got her out and let her run in the living room which is pretty huge and has no carpet but tiles and she seemed to enjoy it and spent a good 10 minutes looking at the garden as we have the living room and the back garden doors she was trying to climb up the glass doors 
When we put her back in her viv she stayed up front basking and trying to get attention by doing a dance at the glass towards us 
She hasn't black bearded but is not really eating again 
All I think I can do is keep handling her and see how it goes I may even keep her in the gest room if she is less stressed ?


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

dinosaur lou said:


> Hi , I've had to move her from my bedroom to my guest room down stairs as upstairs is being decorated , she seems happier :/ where I got her from she was in the living room with 3 big dogs a turtle and 4 room mates
> Do you think the peace of my bedroom was to silent for her?
> We got her out and let her run in the living room which is pretty huge and has no carpet but tiles and she seemed to enjoy it and spent a good 10 minutes looking at the garden as we have the living room and the back garden doors she was trying to climb up the glass doors
> When we put her back in her viv she stayed up front basking and trying to get attention by doing a dance at the glass towards us
> ...


Quietest room I think, wouldnt handle it too much try to keep it short.


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