# Axoltol - Mixed Species Exo Terra Question



## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Couple of Q's!

1) Would an axolotl go for a crested gecko if it came close to the water?
2) Would the bottom bit of an exo terra be deep enough for an axolotl?#


Cheers


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

dorian said:


> Couple of Q's!
> 
> 1) Would an axolotl go for a crested gecko if it came close to the water?
> 2) Would the bottom bit of an exo terra be deep enough for an axolotl?#
> ...


1.yes
2.no must be at least as deep as the axie is long


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

if you like both animals get 2 vivs/tanks with mixing if you have to ask dont do it


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## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

Without trying to sound too negative, this is a joke, right???


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## OlyFroggyBoy (Nov 18, 2009)

Ben W said:


> Without trying to sound too negative, this is a joke, right???


Thats what i was thinking...


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Errm the crestie will drown if it falls in the water :bash:

Are you some sort of idiot?


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Constructive advice prob better - at least they are asking.
I know weve had a few trolls on here but we cant assume anybody asking what some may consider an obvious question is doing so to wind people up.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Oh god lol, not another "I've read this so it must be true" response.

Crested Geckos can swim, and there is nowhere in my tank (which is a paludarium) which is not close to land or a wall, and so there is no risk of not being able to reach safety. She has jumped in a couple of times and has found the land in a matter of seconds, but ventures no where near the bottom anyway. Geckos are not made of glass.

Secondly, no, it is not a joke - it might sound stupid to the experienced keeper but having never kept axolotls I don't know they're behaviour. I have a fire salamander, and this is the only reference to salamander behaviour that I have, and it's the laziest animal I keep so was wondering whether the axolotls would actually go for the gecko.

Your collective response is typical of people who don't actual know what they're on about; they've latched on to things that other people have said and repeat it with no foundation of knowledge or experience to back it up with.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Errm the crestie will drown if it falls in the water :bash:
> 
> Are you some sort of idiot?


No, you're an idiot because you don't know what you're talking about. Last time I checked it rains in New Caledonia, and the water at the bottom is about the sized of a medium sized puddle. It might not be the nicest way of proving it, but check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nk3fiwYyy0



> Constructive advice prob better - at least they are asking.
> I know weve had a few trolls on here but we cant assume anybody asking what some would consider an obvious question is doing so to wind people up


I was aware it might have sounded stupid at the time, but this isn't a troll; I personally can't see why this is such a crazy question - there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to reptile keeping, and my crestie stays well up the top all the time, so I was just going through options of aquatic animals to keep in the bottom of my already water filled exo. 

Thank you for all your wonderful support, you're prize knobs.


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

dorian said:


> I was aware it might have sounded stupid at the time, but this isn't a troll; I personally can't see why this is such a crazy question


Thats exactly the point I was trying to make dorian but your last line wont exactly endear people to give you advice


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

How big is the paludarium? From my understanding, axolotls need quite a lot of space, I've never kept them myself so someone more knowledgeable will be able to give you better information on them. May I ask, for what reason do you keep your crestie in a paludarium? Do you have any photos? I'm quite interested to see how exactly you keep it.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

There was a guy a while ago who kept a crestie in a paludarium, had a thread in planted habitats.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Mainly to boost humidity, partly for aesthetics. As related to this thread, I plan to add some fish or maybe African Dwarf Frogs. I wouldn't do it if I wasn't sure it was safe. 

This is how it was before, but I've redone it today an added a filter and heater for the new potential additions:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat-pictures/654281-my-vivs-cresties-beardies-tokay.html

It's a 60x45x60 exo terra, and I doing a quick bit of research the "internet" recommended 24"x18 which is what it is...


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> There was a guy a while ago who kept a crestie in a paludarium, had a thread in planted habitats.


Tis what inspired me!


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Cheers, but I was in a bad mood.

I keep cresties myself and would not risk it where there is a chance they could fall into water.. near a wall or not.


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

What sort of filter you got in there?
Need to be careful with ADFs and filters as they can be drowned by getting stuck on a filter. Try and get the filtration level as low as you can as well as they are sensitive to water movement etc because of their lateral line


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

maybe I should have gone more indepth with my answer rather than just answering your questions 

Honestly you should never keep amphibians with crested geckos because of the Entamoeba parasite it can be carried by amphibians without any real symptoms can be passed through fecal matter, water and insects that have had contact with the fecal matter or water but its devastating to many species of gecko (there are rumors it was the cause of a big crestie breeder loosing all there stock in the states a few years back but these are just rumors).

also there is a kinda temperature issue, axolotls shouldnt really be housed over 24C with 14-21C being preferred (in the wild they would very rarely experience temperatures in excess of 20C) this means the 18-24C recommended for cresties could involve you tiptoeing you way around the recommend axolotl temperatures or it probably wouldn't die but its not the preferred number. 

axolotls can grow big with the largest recored specimen hitting over 17inches and 8-10 inches being the norm an exo terra would never be suitable for an adult as the minimum depth required is as deep as the axie is long 

finally axolotls are pretty aggressive feeders, cannibalism, eating anything smaller than itself (and sometimes trying to eat things bigger than itself) and biting of tankmates are issues that crop up often.


so I'm still firmly in the bad idea camp



EDIT: didnt see the bit about dwarf frog I personally wouldn't risk it due to the threat of disease (especially since alot of dwarf frogs are still WC)


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Also doesnt the large body of water create a lot of humidity, cresties only need a small amount.. 1 light misting in the evening is good enough.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

spend_day said:


> maybe I should have gone more indepth with my answer rather than just answering your questions
> 
> Honestly you should never keep amphibians with crested geckos because of the Entamoeba parasite it can be carried by amphibians without any real symptoms can be passed through fecal matter, water and insects that have had contact with the fecal matter or water but its devastating to many species of gecko (there are rumors it was the cause of a big crestie breeder loosing all there stock in the states a few years back but these are just rumors).
> 
> ...


Thank you for a more reasonable response, and obviously informed.
Would captive bred ADF's still carry parasites, even after a prolonged quarantine period? If so, then fair enough.

Also, I didn't think that ambient temperature of the gecko enclosure would affect that of the water too much - there's no additional heating other than UV lights which barely raise the temps up by 1 degree.



> What sort of filter you got in there?
> Need to be careful with ADFs and filters as they can be drowned by getting stuck on a filter. Try and get the filtration level as low as you can as well as they are sensitive to water movement etc because of their lateral line


I forgot about that, I did read that before. I have kept ADFs before but didn't use a filter, but they didn't have a load of plants and wood on top so it as easy to clean. The suction area of the filter looks like a gridded vent kinda thing, so from first inspection it doesn't look like it could pose a risk but I'd have to look into it further.



I know to the experienced keeper it might seem a daft question, but I was merely going through potential new inhabitants. Via brief browsing a couple of websites said they can do well in a 24"x18", which I have. They don't need deep water, so I figured that maybe the exo terra base could provide adequate depth. I'm not just some remedial saying "can u keep a leo and a crestee togver." A simple yes or no would have sufficed, but some people feel the need to resort to mediocre insults that only make themselves look a bit daft.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Also doesnt the large body of water create a lot of humidity, cresties only need a small amount.. 1 light misting in the evening is good enough.


They live in rainforests, I doubt it's going to be much of an issue.

Also, on the Grand Terre island, there's a population of crested geckos that live around the Blue River.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Well sorry if I offended you, but 99% of people think its wrong and this sort of question has been asked so many times before. You must of had an idea what people would say before you posted?
I would say just don't do it, The animals you plan to keep come from different parts of the world and I still believe having a large body of water is dangerous to the crestie.
Surely even if it could get out climbing up glass with wet feet will be slippy.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

I recommend you go and speak to Wildlife Warrior, probably one of the most respected members and breeders of rare species on this forum. He'll sort you out.

Trouble is, 99% of people on here think they know everything. How much experience do you have in the swimming capabilities of crested geckos?

"The animals you plan to keep come from different parts of the world"
Yes, they come from New Caledonia and I'm keeping them in Jersey. 

As long as requirements are kept for both species, and no stress or aggression is shown, there's no reason why they can't be kept, especially when divided by a body of water. Now, with regards to Axolotl behaviour, this is why I asked. The only salamander I keep is a Fire Salamander, which seems perpetually stoned, and is the only reference to salamander behaviour I have. Now you have clearly demonstrated that this is not the case, so thank you. 

I know the subject of mixed species is controversial, so I ask you to tell everyone that keeps a dog and a cat, a rabbit and a guinea pig and various species together to separate them at once or THEY WILL DIE. So yes, I expected morons like you to come charging in with your ignorant yet arrogent ill-informed ravings.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

For your information, I am not a moron (now who's being insulting.. doing just what you complained about) I just like to provide a correct habitat for my animals in which I am confident they are safe from harm. It would cause a crestie great stress to swim. I don't claim to know everything, where did I say this? I was merely stating my concern for the gecko potentially drowning. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and keeping my animals safe from potential harm is my way of doing things.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

dorian said:


> Thank you for a more reasonable response, and obviously informed.
> Would captive bred ADF's still carry parasites, even after a prolonged quarantine period? If so, then fair enough..


I'm not that well informed really I know little about the parasite itself apart from its risks. they are fairly hardy have a simply lifecycle and tend to form cysts. Like i said I know little about this parasite (and only the basics of parasites in general) but from this I would guess they are likely to be able to hang around for quite sometime only to become active later on but some1 else or maybe some further reading might be able to shed some more light on or have a definitive/correct answer rather than my guesswork on lifespan.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Bro, seriously, I wouldn't do it. There have been many stories about people trying to keep animals with Axolotyls and fish is probably the WORST choice ever, as they will nip and eat the Axo'x gills, eventually killing it. I made the mistake of trying to house a baby Water Dragon w/ my Tiger Salamander a few years back, and even a largely aquatic species such as the water dragon ended up DROWNING!!!!. If this extreme case ended up in disaster, what do you think will happen to an arboreal species that is not suited for water? It sounds good to have a group of animals living together in harmony and looks awesome, but these are just very different creatures with very different requirements. 

Be it a few years ago, but I still kick myself in the arse for trying it, cuz I loved that water dragon and he would actually climb onto my hand on his own right from the tank and sat on my shoulder calm as all hell w/out a concern in the world. ......and the only reason it is dead is because I made a foolish mistake by thinking it would be better to make a cool-looking enclosure, rather than meet each individual animal's needs and requirements. 

I seriously hope you take this into consideration. It was a 48 U.S. gallon Vivarium btw. Plenty of space for the both of them.....it just wasn't meant to be. please reconsider.....the success rate for these type of things is so low it's not worth trying....like keeping turtles and fish together.


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> For your information, I am not a moron (now who's being insulting.. doing just what you complained about) I just like to provide a correct habitat for my animals in which I am confident they are safe from harm. It would cause a crestie great stress to swim. I don't claim to know everything, where did I say this? I was merely stating my concern for the gecko potentially drowning. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and keeping my animals safe from potential harm is my way of doing things.


Sorry, I got a little over zealous in my response - your recital just seemed so typical of people who don't really know what they're on about but read someone else's post who equally didn't know anything about the subject in hand but read someone else's post...

Yes their feet are a bit slippy initially, but gecko's feet clean themselves within 2-3 steps and will become dry in seconds.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

dorian said:


> "The animals you plan to keep come from different parts of the world"
> Yes, they come from New Caledonia and I'm keeping them in Jersey.


just to clearn this up I think the OP is talking about a risk of disease again. different animals from different part of the world tend to be able to carry/immune to different bacteria/pathogens which could cause health issues in an enclosed environment which cross contamination is hightly likely and the other species immune reaction to said bacteria/pathogens is unknown.

its a fairly long standing argument against mixing and does have it's points.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

I meant, mixing species from different parts of the world in the same viv.. They wouldnt come into contact in the wild, so why force it upon them in captivity?


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

spend_day said:


> just to clearn this up I think the OP is talking about a risk of disease again. different animals from different part of the world tend to be able to carry different bacteria/pathogens which could cause health issues in an enclosed environment which cross contamination is hightly likely and the other species immune reaction to said bacteria/pathogens is unknown.
> 
> its a fairly long standing argument against mixing and does have it's points.


Fair enough, but if the animals are captive bred and quarantined and as long as neither species produce potentially harmful chemicals to the other then there shouldn't be much risk of disease.

Yes, there are a lot of points against mixing species, because the vast majority of species shouldn't be mixed, granted, but there are exceptions and there is never a hard or fast rule.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Many would say just don't risk it. Just out of concern for your animals. It might work for a while but there could be a day where you wake up in the morning and its all gone wrong. What if the crestie panicked and drowned? You'd feel awful I bet.. Just think.

Without calling me names please.


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## Truffs (Aug 6, 2008)

Purely from the point of axolotls - i think they're weirdly cute and endlessly fascinating and i would definitely recommend you get some :2thumb:

As for making a dual tank, its not something i've heard of before but axies do grow pretty big and need a lot of space. An axie will need a water depth which is about the same as the length of the axie, roughly around 8 or 9inches deep for an adult and they need plenty of space for moving around in. The water needs to be kept cool and they also need hides and a good filter (love 'em but have to admit they're not the cleanest of animals!) 

As an idea of space needed, i keep 2 adult axies in a 3ft long tank with a water depth of around 9inches.

Axies will also try to eat pretty much anything thats in front of them if it will fit into their mouths so if the worst happened and the crestie fell/jumped into the water i would worry about the risk of the axie trying to eat it which could potentially kill both animals.

So sorry but i have to say that i dont think it would work - thats just my opinion of course.


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## Stephen Nelson (Jun 21, 2010)

Although I personally don't plan on doing it I personally don't see the issue with mixing species provided you know exactly what your doing.

I appreciate the *NO MIXING *line people tend to take serves to guard against people who don't have a clue making a mess and harming their animals but, if you observe all the quaranteen proceedures you would with same species mixing, test for parasites, are sensible about the sizes of the animals you mix, ensure they don't produce toxins harmful to one another and that you only choose species that share similar environments in the wild how could this possibly be anymore dangerous than placing individuals of the same species together. 

It's 50% research 50% common sense surely. I certainly don't see the harm in people asking questions. 

The only problems I can see with axolotls in this mix other than the fact they may be a little limited on space are the fact that yes they will tend to go for anything that drops in the water (whether they could actually harm a cresty physically I am unsure but I think maybe if they did get hold they could stress it out enough to take on water if you get me) and secondly the temperature issue. Like all caudates its about keeping them cool rather than warm and any raise in temperature can cause fungal infections that are usually fatal. It can be a matter of one degree in some cases. 

Genuinely though luck finding something that you can house with them! I'm sure there must be someone out there who has done it successfully. If not then maybe its not wise to try but thats why you asked the question in the first place to find out and I certainly ain't gonna fault you for that! : victory:


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

Stephen Nelson said:


> Although I personally don't plan on doing it I personally don't see the issue with mixing species provided you know exactly what your doing.
> 
> I appreciate the *NO MIXING *line people tend to take serves to guard against people who don't have a clue making a mess and harming their animals but, if you observe all the quaranteen proceedures you would with same species mixing, test for parasites, are sensible about the sizes of the animals you mix, ensure they don't produce toxins harmful to one another and that you only choose species that share similar environments in the wild how could this possibly be anymore dangerous than placing individuals of the same species together.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you. From what people have said an axolotl would not be suitable, which is fine, and that is why I asked - I'm not going to now go against this advice like some n00bs on this forum do. As for ADFs, I'm going to look into whether they produce any harmful toxins that could pollute the water - although when I kept them before they were housed with fish and a snail, and they were fine, so if they did produce toxins I'm sure it wouldn't be recommended to mix them with fish.

As for the crestie drowning, I appreciate your concern and I too when I first saw someone with a semi aquatic crestie viv was a bit like "Woah", but they can swim, she has swum and can easily get out of the water - she never ventures down to the bottom of the tank anyway.


Jazzy B Bunny - sorry about the names (not that I'm the sole party/originator of this) - I was tired and tetchy last night and didn't really appreciate being called an idiot because of my *hands up* naivety. I didn't know Axolotl's were quite so ferocious in their eating approach. I mean look at the cutie, who would suspect?:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Cute...yea.....but a vicous killer who will swallow anything it can.....basically an Oscar with LEGS!!! Axolotyls are not much different from Tiger Salamanders, and my Tiger eats 2-3 fuzzy mice, plus 6-10 crickets at a time....and some eat fish, depending on how they are raised. Trust me Dude...they are living MOUTHS.


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Two or possibly 3 issues I think from my perspective

The axolotol will need more spacre than you can offer in the exo - the water wont be deep enough and they are messy too so need pretty good filtration or very frequent water changes.

I heavily suspect my axy would have a pop at a cresty - he inhales anything that drops in the water near him and has a big gob!

The possible third and I may be wrong because I dont know a lot about crestie care - but if the require a warm environment then you may have a problem providing cold enough for the lotl and warm enough for the crestie. If cresties are one of thosw weirdos that like it cool then obvioulsy am wrong!

I wonder if it could be done in a slighlty diff way with a larger tank and providing some kind of mesh on the water surface or just above so that the crestie couldnt end up in the water?


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

My crested gecko is kept at room temperature with no additional heating, so the water temp wouldn't rise above it norm. room temperature. 

I think axolotls have definatly been ruled out but I'm looking in to African Dawrf Frogs instead.

Thanks for peoples help.


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## Truffs (Aug 6, 2008)

African Dwarf Frogs - now they're tiny in comparison to axies with much smaller mouths lol!! 

My frogs are about 1inch long, they're very peaceful little things, very active and very cute - especially when they kind of hang with limbs stretched out in the water and have a kind of 'zen' moment!

They're pretty easy to look after too, mine are in with my fish and the only thing they need are hand feeding by turkey baster to ensure they get fed enough (otherwise the fish would eat everything and poor frogs wouldnt get a look in!) - mine happily eat live or frozen bloodworm although i have noticed them taking an occasional sinking fish pellet now and then!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi Dorian

Can I make an alternative suggestion for your water area? Some cherry shrimp or other neocaridina species of shrimp. They would do absolutely fine at room temperature (ignore folks who tell you they are tropical fish, they actually prefer temps between 18 and 24 degrees Celsius). They will also be fine in a quite small body of water, and all you need for them filtration wise is an air driven sponge filter, the produce very very little waste. No risk of them carrying diseases that your cresties could catch either.

They would also help to keep algae under control in your water area, are pretty and quite fun to watch. Freshwater shrimp really do make ideal palludarium inhabitants.

Ade


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Wolfenrook said:


> Hi Dorian
> 
> Can I make an alternative suggestion for your water area? Some cherry shrimp or other neocaridina species of shrimp. They would do absolutely fine at room temperature (ignore folks who tell you they are tropical fish, they actually prefer temps between 18 and 24 degrees Celsius). They will also be fine in a quite small body of water, and all you need for them filtration wise is an air driven sponge filter, the produce very very little waste. No risk of them carrying diseases that your cresties could catch either.
> 
> ...


 
this is genius:notworthy:add in some nice jave moss balls and it would look awesome


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## dorian (Nov 27, 2010)

I've kept ADF before, they're wonderful, but my girlfriend fell in love and she kinda has a way of making you do things for her. Damn.

I'll defos look into shrimps! I'm thinking of getting a snail to to clear the algae too.

Thanks guys!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I'd go for nerite snails if you want snails. They can't breed in fresh water in most cases, so you don't end up inundated with them. 

If you want some more info, and pics, on shrimp take a look at my website ukshrimp.co.uk bud. 

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> I'd go for nerite snails if you want snails. They can't breed in fresh water in most cases, so you don't end up inundated with them.
> 
> *If you want some more info, and pics, on shrimp take a look at my website ukshrimp.co.uk bud. *
> 
> Ade


Nice little site, Wolfie! :2thumb:


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## Truffs (Aug 6, 2008)

> my girlfriend fell in love and she kinda has a way of making you do things for her. Damn.


 Hehe yep its a useful skill us girls seem to have somehow :whistling2:

Shrimp are great, i looked at keeping some as tank cleaners and potential snacks for my axies but i couldnt do it, they just looked too cute!

Good luck with whatever you decide. :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Hi Dorian
> 
> Can I make an alternative suggestion for your water area? Some cherry shrimp or other neocaridina species of shrimp. They would do absolutely fine at room temperature (ignore folks who tell you they are tropical fish, they actually prefer temps between 18 and 24 degrees Celsius). They will also be fine in a quite small body of water, and all you need for them filtration wise is an air driven sponge filter, the produce very very little waste. No risk of them carrying diseases that your cresties could catch either.
> 
> ...


Cresties would eat shrimp. Definitely.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Cresties would eat shrimp. Definitely.


Not definitely at all Morgan, have you ever tried it or seen a single shred of evidence for this? Asides from which, if the water part is properly planted, with plenty of hiding places, they wont even see the shrimp.

At 75p each for cherry shrimp from some places, I would say it's worth trying.

I have to say the 2 poles I have seen here are a little amusing. First folks saying crestries drown in water, now that they can hunt live freshwater shrimp in the same water. :Na_Na_Na_Na: Fickle these cresties. :lol2:

Ade


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## rickpellen (Nov 21, 2008)

I have done frogs in the top of a paludarium, with axolotols in the bottom. It actually went quite well although it was abit too much work after a while so i took the axies out and put fish in. I will get flamed.....bu i have also put clarius catfish in a paludarium aswell:gasp:. Which did REALLY well! so well infact that i had to move them on lol


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

iv never tried it but my theory is crested geckos cant swim in deep water from the looks of your viv if it fell in it could presumably with little difficulty touch the bottom or some form of dryland to escape, alot of people mention they come from the rainforest so will always be around water but as an arboreal species seems very unlikly they would have evolved the ability to swim in the tree tops :lol2:just a theory though 


as for african clawed frogs they look perfect size for a cresty snack may also encourage the cresty into the water either way id not be happy risking the frog or the cresty but that is your call

how come you want to mix so bad thats what i never get with these mixing debates there is always way way more to lose than to gain especially if knoweldge/experience of 1 or both species is lacking....also id say the amphibian section is THE most knowledgeable section on the forum throwing insults and the like may be the way of the lizard section but we all get along here in the phib section and we like to keep it that way!

edit.a really good mixed set up is crestys with woodlice and springtails saves all the cleaning :notworthy:


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

sambridge15 said:


> iv never tried it but my theory is crested geckos cant swim in deep water from the looks of your viv if it fell in it could presumably with little difficulty touch the bottom or some form of dryland to escape, alot of people mention they come from the rainforest so will always be around water but as an arboreal species seems very unlikly they would have evolved the ability to swim in the tree tops :lol2:just a theory though
> 
> 
> as for african clawed frogs they look perfect size for a cresty snack may also encourage the cresty into the water either way id not be happy risking the frog or the cresty but that is your call
> ...


This! I would be so worried about the crestie drowning, if it mis judged a jump and panicked. The crestie might also be tempted by the frogs moving. Just my concerns, but if you are willing to risk then its up to you. If I was going to attempt a mix I'd go for something that comes from where the crestie or other animal comes from, not something from a totally diff part of the world.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Not definitely at all Morgan, have you ever tried it or seen a single shred of evidence for this? Asides from which, if the water part is properly planted, with plenty of hiding places, they wont even see the shrimp.
> 
> At 75p each for cherry shrimp from some places, I would say it's worth trying.
> 
> ...



Evidence? The fact that shrimp are the same size as the usual crestie live food I think it's good enough reason not to try it.


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> This! I would be so worried about the crestie drowning, if it mis judged a jump and panicked. The crestie might also be tempted by the frogs moving. Just my concerns, but if you are willing to risk then its up to you. If I was going to attempt a mix I'd go for something that comes from where the crestie or other animal comes from, not something from a totally diff part of the world.


im confused im not the op but your reply looks like its suposed to be :lol2: i was saying that its a bad idea


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

sambridge15 said:


> im confused im not the op but your reply looks like its suposed to be :lol2: i was saying that its a bad idea


Huh? I was saying it was bad too..


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Evidence? The fact that shrimp are the same size as the usual crestie live food I think it's good enough reason not to try it.


Not really no. Just because something is the same size as somethings food doesn't mean it's the same thing at all. Like I said, with plenty of hiding places in the water (could easily even use duck weed on the surface) the few shrimp you MIGHT lose to the crestie would be far outstripped by their ability to multiply. Believe me, they make guppies look slow breeding.

I'd worry more about the OP's ability to keep them to be honest. Freshwater shrimp make keeping dart frogs for example look simple. All it takes is a bit of copper and your shrimp are corpses for example. However they DO make excellent Palludarium inhabitants. Heck even issue 1 of BriBri has an article in there on using shrimp in palludariums, and I would say frogs are even more likely to go after a shrimp as a quick snack.

If you must mix, then at least shrimp wont put your other animals at any risk. Look on the bright side of the worst scenario, it's extra calcium in their diet. :lol2:
To the OP. You might actually want to try a European forum for discussing mix tanks and palludariums to be honest. They're not too popular on the UK scene, and seen as anathema in the US, whilst they are quite popular in Holland I believe.

Ade


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Huh? I was saying it was bad too..


ah i get it now sorry my mistake:lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Just to add, I am not by any means saying it will work even with shrimp, just that they are the lesser of many evils.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a water area in an exo. Even the biggest size of exo is hardly huge at 90cms wide. If you are set on wanting a palludarium, you'd get a much nicer one using a large aquarium and keeping something like fire bellied toads or mossy frogs that use both the land and water.

Ade


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