# Pushchairs!



## ambyglam

Who thinks that pushchairs should be banned from shows?


Do you think there should be a minimum age that kids should have to be to get into reptile shows?


****Just to state that the beauty expo in sctoland has banned pushchairs for the last 6 or 7 years as they get in the way too much, plus it means that there are no kids screaming of boredom/hunger/needing nappy changed either.

Bearing in mind that the beauty expo has no live animals to get stresses by screaming children either or even pulled off tables.

oh and just to say... the space between the stands at the beauty show are about double that of the space at the doncaster show!***

maybe not the best comparison, but the best I could think of!!!


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## Hissy Missy

Just because you are a parent it doesnt give you any less right to beable to attend shows. But i do think as a responsible adult best judgement should be used. I for example have a 4 year old that wanted to come yesterday. The heat, combined with the 2hr drive and the fact that he had been naughty the day before and had nursery the day after contributed to my decision to not take him. He will however be comming with us to kiddy (if its still on) .


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## Athravan

Most of the trade shows I go to do not allow pushchairs/buggies (but do still accomodate wheelchairs/disability scooters obviously) and I personally would not take a child to a show with me. All of the horse related expo-s I go to have a creche at the entrance to leave any pushchairs/buggies and then you can carry children if you like. In fact almost every single event I've ever been to has said no pushchairs allowed due to limited space, except for british reptile shows - even though they are also some of the busiest/smallest spaces I've seen at a trade show.

Even my doctors surgery makes people park pushchairs in the entrance hall and not to be taken into the waiting room or doctors rooms - even though there's more than enough space for them.

I don't think there should be a set age that people aren't allowed to take children in, it's up to each parent to figure out what's best for their own children, but it's very rare to see kids at the european shows and I don't think I would take anyone under 16 to one personally. None of the European shows I've been too I've ever seen a pushchair and I assume they have a rule - or maybe people just don't do it, but I've never seen a single one. 

I am actually quite suprised that most of the UK reptile shows allow pushchairs given the massively limited amount of space there is between tables.


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## rum&coke

:hmm:hmmm what would be better?
acting like civilized people and making space for kids in push chairs? 
or 
banning push chairs so you can all pile in like old pensioners looking for a bargain at a jumble sale?

I don't think you can really blame the show organizers for peoples lack of manners really.


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## klair328

noooooooooooo prams AND old people or them mobility scooters.. deffo should not be aloud in public.. iv got kids and i HATE taking the pram/buggy..i hate mroe so when im out and stuck bhind a traffic of them! its not the space.. its the getting your feet an over knees bashed into sliced by the side of the darn things not to mention the fatal raming of heels and back of knees resulting in casualties.. 

long story short i deffo think if your going to take a buggy to a show they should at least put on a wee lane for them .. their dangerous!


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## carlo69

*Hi*



ambyglam said:


> Who thinks that pushchairs should be banned from shows?
> 
> 
> Do you think there should be a minimum age that kids should have to be to get into reptile shows?
> 
> 
> ****Just to state that the beauty expo in sctoland has banned pushchairs for the last 6 or 7 years as they get in the way too much, plus it means that there are no kids screaming of boredom/hunger/needing nappy changed either.
> 
> Bearing in mind that the beauty expo has no live animals to get stresses by screaming children either or even pulled off tables.
> 
> oh and just to say... the space between the stands at the beauty show are about double that of the space at the doncaster show!***
> 
> maybe not the best comparison, but the best I could think of!!!


 
something as simple as letting people take pushchairs blown out of all proportion its simple if you have a problem with pushchairs and you see one turn round and walk the other way problem solved , what a bunch of ignorant people like i said before we was all in pushchairs at one time and if you ban pushchairs you'll have to ban wheelchairs too, come on everyone grow up .how hard is it to navigate round a pushchair i am sure you wouldnt say fat people arent aloud in cause they get in the way :devil:


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## klair328

to be fair though its not exactly somewhere you want to take toddlers .. reptile shows.. big crowds horible heat busy place ..i wouldnt take my kids they wouldnt like it...


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## LizardFTI

Ban pushchairs - Yes.
Ban children - No.


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## carlo69

ELZ1985 said:


> Ban pushchairs - Yes.
> Ban children - No.


ban people who dont like pushchairs at shows - YES
problem solved:2thumb:


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## kirky1980

if people are to take pushchairs then tough luck just grow a pair and get on with it.

iv never herd anything so petty in all my life.:bash:


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## LizardFTI

carlo69 said:


> ban people who dont like pushchairs at shows - YES
> problem solved:2thumb:


If people didnt use them as a battering ram I wouldnt mind, its being hit in the ankles and nearly falling over I find objectionable.


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## rum&coke

TBH I don't think it's the push chairs that are the problem. The thing that puts me off reptile shows is the people who attend. It's like when you go to the super market to get your shopping and they are reducing things, you get a bunch of people just pile in pushing and shoving to get the cheap stuff. I don't blame the show organizers as most shows at least pretend to have some kind of show element to them but mostly the attitude of people attending kind of gives some credit to when the ANTI's call it like a boot fair for animals, especially with the way people behave pushing and shoving to get the bargains. People are just rude and ignorant at times and banning push chairs wont stop that.


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## Rach1

if that is the case then no wonder people of all description get frustrated and flustered...
maybe a bigger venue is needed with more thought as to keeping the children entertained?


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## LizardFTI

Rach1 said:


> if that is the case then no wonder people of all description get frustrated and flustered...
> maybe a bigger venue is needed with more thought as to keeping the children entertained?


Honestly, I didnt find any of the children at the show to be poorly behaved or anything, they all seemed quite interested and werent making a pest of themselves. My issue is only with the bulk of a pram being used to ram people.

I think for the most part, the children that were old enough to appreciate it genuinely did.


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> something as simple as letting people take pushchairs blown out of all proportion its simple if you have a problem with pushchairs and you see one turn round and walk the other way problem solved , what a bunch of ignorant people like i said before we was all in pushchairs at one time and if you ban pushchairs you'll have to ban wheelchairs too, come on everyone grow up .how hard is it to navigate round a pushchair i am sure you wouldnt say fat people arent aloud in cause they get in the way :devil:


Unbelievable! Mate are you for real? Putting people in wheelchairs in the same category as toddlers? Haha

Where do you get the idea that they are the same thing? People with a disability have to use the wheelchair 

They also WANT to go to the show, have the interest in reps, keep reps, have an adults mind about them, don't just Want to play 'poke the snake'

The argument that prams can be a pain in the ass is valid! Disability is totally different altogether!



klair328 said:


> to be fair though its not exactly somewhere you want to take toddlers .. reptile shows.. big crowds horible heat busy place ..i wouldnt take my kids they wouldnt like it...


Very sensible!!


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## ladycelestria

well if shows did ban pushchairs, people who have children with mental disabilities, that use pushchairs as a method of keeping their child safe would be screwed

my son will likely be in one till he is 5 or 6, as he is not physically disabled then he does not warrent a wheelchair... i have given up everything for my family, its all part and parcel of being a parent but once in a while u need to do something for yourself and sod it if the kids dont want to go... tough sh*t... i was made to do stuff i didnt like when i was a kid and if i didnt behave i got a clip round the earole

If you are lucky enough to have a partner, or family/ friends to have ur kids then great but single parents or those with mentally disabled kids should not miss out because there are a few git out there who are rude and use a push chair as a weapon... what people dont seem to get is, take away the pushchair and you will still have the git... they will just use their elbows, or feet to push and shove you

anyway i am done with it now


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## sazzle

ladycelestria said:


> *well if shows did ban pushchairs, people who have children with mental disabilities, that use pushchairs as a method of keeping their child safe would be screwed*
> 
> my son will likely be in one till he is 5 or 6, as he is not physically disabled then he does not warrent a wheelchair... i have given up everything for my family, its all part and parcel of being a parent but once in a while u need to do something for yourself and sod it if the kids dont want to go... tough sh*t... i was made to do stuff i didnt like when i was a kid and if i didnt behave i got a clip round the earole
> 
> If you are lucky enough to have a partner, or family/ friends to have ur kids then great but single parents or those with mentally disabled kids should not miss out because there are a few git out there who are rude and use a push chair as a weapon... what people dont seem to get is, take away the pushchair and you will still have the git... they will just use their elbows, or feet to push and shove you
> 
> anyway i am done with it now


i agree that pushchairs should not be allowed, however, if a child has a disability that is a completely different story, it is still a disability regardless of age, i don't have children but i wouldn't dream of taking anyone under the age of 5 to a reptile show, they don't particularly have any interest, it is too hot and too bloomin dangerous, all it takes is for someone to trip over a pushchair/buggy and potentially knock it which could harm the child. 

Sorry for the comparison but taking a child to donny is like standing in the middle of a slipknot moshpit with a buggy IMHO, just as shovey, just as hot, just as sweaty :lol2:


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## HABU

i'm just here to find out what a "pushchair" was... oh a stroller...

: victory:


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## ladycelestria

sazzle said:


> i agree that pushchairs should not be allowed, however,* if a child has a disability that is a completely different story, it is still a disability regardless of age,* i don't have children but i wouldn't dream of taking anyone under the age of 5 to a reptile show, they don't particularly have any interest, it is too hot and too bloomin dangerous, all it takes is for someone to trip over a pushchair/buggy and potentially knock it which could harm the child.
> 
> Sorry for the comparison but taking a child to donny is like standing in the middle of a slipknot moshpit with a buggy IMHO, just as shovey, just as hot, just as sweaty :lol2:


if you are saying that a child with a disability should be allowed a pushchair then it defeats the purpose of banning them in the 1st place as policing it would be impossible... anybody could say their child has a mental disability


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## phelsuma

Banning pushchairs.....well if you are selfish and intolerant you might want to ban them or you could apply some logic and work out that kids are the future of our hobby. Yeah I had my ankle clipped a couple of times but I'm still walking so who cares? Rather than discriminating against people with young kids could I suggest that I am permitted to physically and violently remove numpties who hum and haw at tables when they clearly have no intention of actually buying anything.


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## NickBenger

klair328 said:


> noooooooooooo prams AND *old people or them mobility scooters*.. deffo should not be aloud in public.. iv got kids and i HATE taking the pram/buggy..i hate mroe so when im out and stuck bhind a traffic of them! its not the space.. its the getting your feet an over knees bashed into sliced by the side of the darn things not to mention the fatal raming of heels and back of knees resulting in casualties..
> 
> long story short i deffo think if your going to take a buggy to a show they should at least put on a wee lane for them .. their dangerous!


*The Bold* = Disability Discrimination
The Underlined  = Wow you've taught me you can die from being rammed by a scooter in the heels.... This world is fascinating


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## pigglywiggly

or maybe all whiners&moaners should be banned from shows?

yes it was hot, 
yes it was busy, 
we have only a few shows in the uk maybe we should just get on with enjoying them and stop all the whinging?

all the kids i met were polite, and all the poeple in wheelchairs and using buggys were too :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## rum&coke

sazzle said:


> Sorry for the comparison but taking a child to donny is like standing in the middle of a slipknot moshpit with a buggy IMHO, just as shovey, just as hot, just as sweaty :lol2:


But really should it be like that? why is it like that?
It's advertised as a reptile show the idea being people should be able to walk around and have a look at the reptiles and talk to the breeders.
I can see your point I would not take a kid in a push chair to a reptile show, but thats only because I know what they are like, If I didn't then it would not cross my mind that it's not a great place for anyone who cant fight there way to the tables in the hope of bagging a cheap snake/lizard before the next person gets there.


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## Pauline

The problem isn't so much with pushchairs it's the adults pushing them who are so ignorant they park them right behind you so when you step away from the table you fall over them, it's the same in shops not just rep shows.

I do also think it's very selfish of parents to subject their tiny tots to the conditions in the hall especially when, as I said on the other thread they know it will be hot in there, I certainly wouldn't. I'm sure they could get a baby sitter for the day. I agree children should be encouraged to appreciate reptiles but dragging them round a show should wait until they are a little older. An alternative would be for parents to take turns and leave their little one's with one parent in the entrance while the other does the show and then swap over. 

I am surprised that health and safety haven't a say in a matter like this.


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## NickBenger

I didn't go but, Why don't they have a limit to how many people they let in the hall.... so you get stamped in and out and they only let so many people in at once then when someone leaves another is let in etc. This would solve the whole problem.. Less people in there would mean you could have pushchairs in there too. Plus it's less stress on the animals, and just people in general.


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## sazzle

ladycelestria said:


> if you are saying that a child with a disability should be allowed a pushchair then it defeats the purpose of banning them in the 1st place as policing it would be impossible... anybody could say their child has a mental disability


people who lie will have karma bite them in the ass :lol2: to be fair, i doubt they would ban them anyway, too many people would kick up a fuss, some people have no choice but to bring a child, others are just selfish and take them anyway


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## farnell182

ladycelestria said:


> well if shows did ban pushchairs, people who have children with mental disabilities, that use pushchairs as a method of keeping their child safe would be screwed
> 
> my son will likely be in one till he is 5 or 6, as he is not physically disabled then he does not warrent a wheelchair... i have given up everything for my family, its all part and parcel of being a parent but once in a while u need to do something for yourself and sod it if the kids dont want to go... tough sh*t... i was made to do stuff i didnt like when i was a kid and if i didnt behave i got a clip round the earole
> 
> If you are lucky enough to have a partner, or family/ friends to have ur kids then great but single parents or those with mentally disabled kids should not miss out because there are a few git out there who are rude and use a push chair as a weapon... what people dont seem to get is, take away the pushchair and you will still have the git... they will just use their elbows, or feet to push and shove you
> 
> anyway i am done with it now


Disability being totally different..but even at 5 or 6 no child of mine would be dragged around anywhere like that it's simply not fair 



phelsuma said:


> Banning pushchairs.....well if you are selfish and intolerant you might want to ban them or you could apply some logic and work out that kids are the future of our hobby. Yeah I had my ankle clipped a couple of times but I'm still walking so who cares? Rather than discriminating against people with young kids could I suggest that I am permitted to physically and violently remove numpties who hum and haw at tables when they clearly have no intention of actually buying anything.


Oh yes! Every child that enters a overcrowded, very hot and sweaty reptile show when stuck in a pram with only the view of adults arses will become future herpetologists!DAMN I should of knew that!



Pauline said:


> The problem isn't so much with pushchairs it's the adults pushing them who are so ignorant they park them right behind you so when you step away from the table you fall over them, it's the same in shops not just rep shows.
> 
> I do also think it's very selfish of parents to subject their tiny tots to the conditions in the hall especially when, as I said on the other thread they know it will be hot in there, I certainly wouldn't. I'm sure they could get a baby sitter
> for the day. I agree children should be encouraged to appreciate reptiles but dragging them round a show should wait until they are a little older. An alternative would be for parents to take turns and leave their little one's with one parent in the entrance while the other does the show and then swap over.
> 
> I am surprised that health and safety haven't a say in a matter like this.


100% agree with this!


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## rum&coke

TheDogMan said:


> Why don't they have a limit to how many people they let in the hall.... so you get stamped in and out and they only let so many people in at once then when someone leaves another is let in etc. .


In an ideal world that would work, but if you go to one of these shows you will see everyone has the same idea get there early and get the good stuff before it sells out, If you go to a show after lunch time it's normally a different story and much more room to move, problem is all the good stuff has sold.
I think over crowding and pushing and shoving is going to be an on going problem for shows as most of the smaller ones have stopped now in favor of big shows. 
I think people are just going to have to weigh up the options do they want to jump in the mosh pit for the chance of a bargain or do they want to not bother with shows and buy animals from breeders direct.
Personally shows have pretty much lost all appeal for me now I find them a bit like shopping on a Saturday it's to crowded I'd rather go shopping on a week day. So same for buying reptiles I'd rather get them from a shop or private sale ,at least I don't have to engage in unarmed combat that way :lol2:


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## fiesta599

pushchairs shouldnt be banned but i think some off the parents using a push chair as an aid to knock people out of the way should be banned.we cant blame the children for their parents idiots way.
i got rammed and got a bruise from a pram ramming me but one look at the cute newborn in said pram made me smile.he was such a cutie so i forgave him lol


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## phelsuma

farnell182 said:


> Disability being totally different..but even at 5 or 6 no child of mine would be dragged around anywhere like that it's simply not fair
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes! Every child that enters a overcrowded, very hot and sweaty reptile show when stuck in a pram with only the view of adults arses will become future herpetologists!DAMN I should of knew that!
> 
> 
> 
> 100% agree with this!


Wouldn't any reasonably intelligent person have enough common sense to realise that I was not suggesting that every kid at Donny will get the reptile bug. You should have known that.


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## RhianB87

I dont mind pushchairs as a whole, but its the parents that use them to shove everyone out of the way and dont say sorry. 
But at the shows I have been to my issues were actually children out of push chairs. 
Halls are crowded and yet people have 4-5 year old children walking around. I nearly took out several children and saw several get knocked to the floor in the crowds.


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## NickBenger

rum&coke said:


> In an ideal world that would work, but if you go to one of these shows you will see everyone has the same idea get there early and get the good stuff before it sells out, If you go to a show after lunch time it's normally a different story and much more room to move, problem is all the good stuff has sold.
> I think over crowding and pushing and shoving is going to be an on going problem for shows as most of the smaller ones have stopped now in favor of big shows.
> I think people are just going to have to weigh up the options do they want to jump in the mosh pit for the chance of a bargain or do they want to not bother with shows and buy animals from breeders direct.
> Personally shows have pretty much lost all appeal for me now I find them a bit like shopping on a Saturday it's to crowded I'd rather go shopping on a week day. So same for buying reptiles I'd rather get them from a shop or private sale ,at least I don't have to engage in unarmed combat that way :lol2:


Lol then the people who deserve them can get the bargains, I want to see overnight camping the lot. If you're willing to work for it, you deserve them bargains :lol2:


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## rum&coke

TheDogMan said:


> Lol then the people who deserve them can get the bargains, I want to see overnight camping the lot. If you're willing to work for it, you deserve them bargains :lol2:


 Ha ha I bet some do camp out, it's amasing people drive for miles que for hours fight there way to the tables just to save £20 of a leo or something daft like that. TBH I think I'd be happy to pay that extra bit of money just to not have to bother with all that.


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## NickBenger

rum&coke said:


> Ha ha I bet some do camp out, it's amasing people drive for miles que for hours fight there way to the tables just to save £20 of a leo or something daft like that. TBH I think I'd be happy to pay that extra bit of money just to not have to bother with all that.


:lol2: You'd probably save the money on petrol tbh


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## farnell182

phelsuma said:


> Wouldn't any reasonably intelligent person have enough common sense to realise that I was not suggesting that every kid at Donny will get the reptile bug. You should have known that.


Tell me..did you know what you wanted to spend your life doing at the age of 2?


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## phelsuma

farnell182 said:


> Tell me..did you know what you wanted to spend your life doing at the age of 2?


Don't be stupid of course I didn't. Perhaps if you opened your blinkered eyes you would realise that not every parent of young children has a support network to help out. We could of course ban pushchairs and deny many people the same opportunities to enjoy their hobby as the rest of us or we could be more inclusive and welcome them to the fold. 

Perhaps the IHS could just employ burly elite members to man the entrance at future shows to ensure that "the wrong sort" don't get in. But why just stop at pushchairs? If we ban pushchairs and fat people there would be much more room and safety for the rest of us. It makes perfect sense. Which group will we pick on next?


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## farnell182

phelsuma said:


> Don't be stupid of course I didn't. Perhaps if you opened your blinkered eyes you would realise that not every parent of young children has a support network to help out. We could of course ban pushchairs and deny many people the same opportunities to enjoy their hobby as the rest of us or we could be more inclusive and welcome them to the fold.
> 
> Perhaps the IHS could just employ burly elite members to man the entrance at future shows to ensure that "the wrong sort" don't get in. But why just stop at pushchairs? If we ban pushchairs and fat people there would be much more room and safety for the rest of us. It makes perfect sense. Which group will we pick on next?


La-de-da..

You said the kids are the future rep keepers..bold statement that is infact incorrect..unless of corse you can tell the future? Now don't YOU be stupid..

It's not about wrong sort, it's an inconvenience to an already busy show, age limit would be good IMO but each to their own


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## farnell182

phelsuma said:


> Don't be stupid of course I didn't. Perhaps if you opened your blinkered eyes you would realise that not every parent of young children has a support network to help out. We could of course ban pushchairs and deny many people the same opportunities to enjoy their hobby as the rest of us or we could be more inclusive and welcome them to the fold.
> 
> Perhaps the IHS could just employ burly elite members to man the entrance at future shows to ensure that "the wrong sort" don't get in. But why just stop at pushchairs? If we ban pushchairs and fat people there would be much more room and safety for the rest of us. It makes perfect sense. Which group will we pick on next?


Oh and the stinky people would be next! They should be made to shower in the changing rooms first!


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Unbelievable! Mate are you for real? Putting people in wheelchairs in the same category as toddlers? Haha
> 
> Where do you get the idea that they are the same thing? People with a disability have to use the wheelchair
> 
> They also WANT to go to the show, have the interest in reps, keep reps, have an adults mind about them, don't just Want to play 'poke the snake'
> 
> The argument that prams can be a pain in the ass is valid! Disability is totally different altogether!
> 
> 
> 
> Very sensible!!


dont be stupid mate you think its totally different do you ,what about the people that want to go to the show have an interest in reps ,keep reps and educate there children in the hobby so as we can all enjoy it in the future, like i said you have the problem with pushchairs they dont create a problem as neither do people in wheelchairs ,and also my children don't play poke the snake they are well behaved , and not all people who are disabled come to shows to buy animals they come to look at the animals like a lot of people do. This argument is b****x , oh and yes i am happy to put a wheelchair in the same category as a pushchair or have you forgot the argument was not about the person but the pushchair and the wheelchair taking up too much space


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> La-de-da..
> 
> You said the kids are the future rep keepers..bold statement that is infact incorrect..unless of corse you can tell the future? Now don't YOU be stupid..
> 
> It's not about wrong sort, it's an inconvenience to an already busy show, age limit would be good IMO but each to their own


I am guessing by this comment that its not childen that cause the problem its people who make stupid comments , I can tell the future people like you with your daft comments are not going to help the future of the hobby


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> dont be stupid mate you think its totally different do you ,what about the people that want to go to the show have an interest in reps ,keep reps and educate there children in the hobby so as we can all enjoy it in the future, like i said you have the problem with pushchairs they dont create a problem as neither do people in wheelchairs ,and also my children don't play poke the snake they are well behaved , and not all people who are disabled come to shows to buy animals they come to look at the animals like a lot of people do. This argument is b****x , oh and yes i am happy to put a wheelchair in the same category as a pushchair or have you forgot the argument was not about the person but the pushchair and the wheelchair taking up too much space


I've never once mentioned a wheelchair mate, not being capable of walking is a valid reason for being in a chair, no? 

Not all kids are perfect specimens of the human race, now this may come as a shock to you, but some misbehave! And a rep show is not a good place for that mainly for the safety of themselves! They also get bored very easy, 
stressed with the heat etc etc

So IMO where possible younger children should be left at home..

It's a difference of opinions, that is all..

Don't get your knickers in a twist! : victory:


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> I am guessing by this comment that its not childen that cause the problem its people who make stupid comments , I can tell the future people like you with your daft comments are not going to help the future of the hobby


Why because I put la de da? 

Mate without being funny, thats a bit petty..

I'm not saying so much cause a problem, it's just not ideal! They don't mean no harm but kids are kids


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Why because I put la de da?
> 
> Mate without being funny, thats a bit petty..
> 
> I'm not saying so much cause a problem, it's just not ideal! They don't mean no harm but kids are kids


and all adults are perfect


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> and all adults are perfect


Far from it mate, far from it


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## phelsuma

farnell182 said:


> Oh and the stinky people would be next! They should be made to shower in the changing rooms first!


Damn, I've got to agree with you :2thumb:. But I still think you need to be more tolerant!!!!


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## farnell182

phelsuma said:


> Damn, I've got to agree with you :2thumb:. But I still think you need to be more tolerant!!!!


I think I am quite tolerant! Very compared to some: victory:


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## snaketats

yep ban them and give the people moaning a new reason to wing - il take my kids and if i hear people moan il ram them simple do or die style from now i think lol

p.s ticked the wrong box i think il be taking my kids every time even if it pisses people off and if they get banned which they wont - it will be a huge court case to answer in my case you wont see any uk shows then.


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## kay&Bert

kirky1980 said:


> if people are to take pushchairs then tough luck just grow a pair and get on with it.
> 
> iv never herd anything so petty in all my life.:bash:


im in agreement here kirky, it wont be long before i drop me sprog, i was at donny and didnt even make it into the show full stop after an incident where i actually ended up assaulting a female (in my defense she needed it) and i decided it was too risky for me to stay with bump.
i will be attending next years donny show and will more the likely have my baby with me.

i think the problem to the solution is :
perhaps bigger premises ... Why not have marquee's outside thus meaning less people inside less crowding

and a polite notice around the site: i.e please do not ram other visitors etc.

and everyone just being polite in general to everyone else, yes it was hot & sticky but that does not require all of the blame being put onto pushchair owners.

the young girl i assaulted take for instance, she elbowed me several times in the stomach (noting im 20 weeks pregnant) resulting in me politely asking her to be careful as i was pregnant and i also had a Tshirt on stating 'Bump on Board for a Reptile Hoard'
the young girl turned and replied with im here to get reptiles not get nagged at by a pregnant hag!!!

alot of it comes down to manners, IMO if you show someone respect they will respect you back

dont just blame 1 target patron, we are all to blame in a sense! 
let common sense prevail!:devil:

RANT OVER


----------



## rum&coke

A bigger venue wont solve the problem, shows are crowded because everyone wants to be in at the same time, early for the good stuff, and ques systems will just cause problems as people moan about them as it is let alone if they are kept waiting for hours for the first, second, third lot to come out.
You have to look at reptile shows in the same way you would new years day sales at the shops, it's gonna be hell and every man for himself.


----------



## ambyglam

kay&Bert said:


> i will be attending next years donny show and will more the likely have my baby with me.


dont you think your less than a year old baby may be happier... virtually anywhere else on earth, rather than a crowded hot room full of people on a mission?

As stated before, european shows are bigger, busier and no one would ever dream of taking babies to such things.

remember back to when your parents used to take you to things where you didnt get to play with other kids, got hauled round looking at stuff that was interesting for 10 min then bored... its the same thing.

for those saying that the kids at shows are the future herpers... eh no... not that many people share the same hobby as their parents and not many people keep the same hobby from childhood into adulthood. Yes some people do... but lots of people dont.

The kids I saw yesterday were very well behaved in general, I saw a little boy proud as punch carefully carrying his little pacman frog.

My thoughts are if a kid is old enough to look after a pet they are old enough to go to a show, otherwise there really is no point in them being there. Surely everyone with a child must know someone who could look after their child for a few hours...Ive looked after my friends wee boy for a whole week once when she had to go to a conference... where they actually had childcare facilities, but apparently coming round to our house was waaaaay funner, so why not let the kids have a nice day at home or a relative or friends house rather then a busy hot hall with a rather pungent smell on occasion.

Currently the poll reads that more people would prefer for push chairs to be banned than not... even people with kids are saying so.

Im saying I would prefer for small kids not to be there for the sake of the kids... and for that sake anyone else that was only there to keep their other half happy...lol... it would keep the numbers down a wee bit...lol...i did see a couple of 'yes dear!' partners yesterday looking under enthused...thats why my other half sat outside under a tree in the shade xx


----------



## Ssthisto

ambyglam said:


> for that sake anyone else that was only there to keep their other half happy...lol... it would keep the numbers down a wee bit...lol...i did see a couple of 'yes dear!' partners yesterday looking under enthused...thats why my other half sat outside under a tree in the shade xx


100% agree on that one, Ambyglam - adult non-reptile-keepers shouldn't feel obligated to go in either (although I know most of them are likely to do it to ensure that their reptile-obsessed other half / teenager / etc doesn't bring home more than was agreed...)


----------



## farnell182

kay&Bert said:


> im in agreement here kirky, it wont be long before i drop me sprog, i was at donny and didnt even make it into the show full stop after an incident where i actually ended up assaulting a female (in my defense she needed it) and i decided it was too risky for me to stay with bump.
> i will be attending next years donny show and will more the likely have my baby with me.
> 
> i think the problem to the solution is :
> perhaps bigger premises ... Why not have marquee's outside thus meaning less people inside less crowding
> 
> and a polite notice around the site: i.e please do not ram other visitors etc.
> and everyone just being polite in general to everyone else, yes it was hot & sticky but that does not require all of the blame being put onto pushchair owners.
> 
> the young girl i assaulted take for instance, she elbowed me several times in the stomach (noting im 20 weeks pregnant) resulting in me politely asking her
> to be careful as i was pregnant and i also had a Tshirt on stating 'Bump on Board for a Reptile Hoard'
> the young girl turned and replied with im here to get reptiles not get nagged at by a pregnant hag!!!
> 
> alot of it comes down to manners, IMO if you show someone respect they will respect you back
> 
> dont just blame 1 target patron, we are all to blame in a sense!
> let common sense prevail!:devil:
> 
> RANT OVER


Well..that's unbelievable! So you'll take your new born to the show? That's downright selfish! Being pregnant is bad enough knowing what it's like you should expect to be knocked a few times (don't get me wrong sounds like that girl deserved a slap) but if somebody falls onto your newborn because you are too selfish to get a babysitter I hopesomebody gives you a slap for being so stupid! 

Somebody pmd me about how well I handled all the messages on these threads not being overly aggressive but this takes the biscuit! Think of the newborn instead of you self!!

P.s also agree with ambyglam!!


----------



## Ssthisto

As for me, personally....

I have a young nephew. He will not be invited to attend any of the shows with us until he's old enough to walk, talk, and not get stood on by people twice his height - and that's assuming he says he is *interested *in going and his parents think he's able to go with us without them being there (since mum's phobic of snakes!), rather than being taken whether he wants to go or not. 

I wasn't taken to any dog shows until I was old enough to stay out from underfoot, old enough to ask my parents if I could go and watch, and old enough to cope with the fact that mum and dad were going to be busy at the show and wouldn't be focussing on me.


----------



## kay&Bert

in light of your opinions, you have to take certain things into account with your comments :

1, Not everyone will have the capacity of being able to arrange a babysitter. There are alot of single parents, whom raise their children on their own.

2, I personally would take my child yes, as the child is my responsibilty and i do not feel that there would be anyone that i trust enough to look after that child aside from myself. 

im not being selfish what so ever , im just simply stating that there is alot of Personal Circumstances that no one has taken into consideration, 

As for stating that 'i knew what it was like and it was bad enough going there when i am pregnant' well just for your information, i was not aware of what it was going to be like at the donny show as it was my 1st time there. and i took the judgement from myself to leave after being knocked to the stomach and verbally abused! and i left befoire i even got chance to see glimpses of any reptile!!!!

i will take my baby if necessary yes, even if less then a year old, but there will be measures in place to put that babys protection as priority

i.e the baby will not be in a pram, s/he will be in a pappoose which will be strapped to myself, heavily padded, 

unfortunatly liek some other persons in the world/..... i do not have the capacity to organise a babysitter for an entire day, i do not have a support network that allows me to have numerous amount time to myself, 

my Partner works away 2 weeks out of 4 so 50/50 chance of him being able to look after the baby at the time, and unfortunatly my dad is currently undergoing multiple sugeries which will lay him up for the next 2 years minimum.
Being pregnant and having a baby, does not and should not and certainly will not stop me from enjoying my hobby!!!!!! Women and Pregnancy and Babies are all to often shoved in the corner and i will not let this happen to me, i will not be wrapped in cotton wool.


----------



## kay&Bert

also if you start wanting to restrict persons whom attend the shows :

1, Prams, Puschairs
2, Pregnant Women, And Babies

who are you going to target next:

Fat People becuase they take up too much room

People whom have BO

Wheelchair users

Tell what what why not just make the show invite only, then you can alll weed out the people that you dont want there, and only have the Skinny, Non Smelly, Non Disabled, Non Pregnant or pushchair weilding people there! No Kids, No 'Yes Dear Partners' and see how far that gets you with the show!!!


----------



## Jazzy B Bunny

Banning pushchairs is a great idea.. I find a lot of people use them as 'weapons' to push and shove people out of the way.
Banning kids isn't fair but maybe a min age of say 5 or 6 years old.


----------



## Sweetcorn

I voted yes to stopping pushchairs from being allowed in. I’m not anti children and raised my son as a single parent so know how difficult it can be. But with being a parent comes a responsibility to that child and sometimes, yes you’ll miss out on doing things......that’s life!!! 

I really don’t think that busy reptile shows are an appropriate place for young children and babies. I’m sure you wouldn’t even consider taking your child/baby to a nightclub or a concert etc if you didn’t have a babysitter, so what’s the difference?

Schools can’t do any activities with children without a risk assessment being done and I’m sure that an event like this would not be passed as being safe at all.

As said, you don’t see this happening at the Hamm show and Germany is much more family/child orientated than we are in this country.

All it will take is for a child to be injured and there will be hell to pay and likely that the councils will no longer approve these shows.


----------



## ambyglam

I cannot see how people have so few friends that they cannot find a babysitter for a day which is known about months in advance. so for those who like to plan ahead... last sunday in june, last sunday in spetember!

And please dont use the single parent card...EVER... My friend who is a single parent thinks people who say 'I'm a single parent' in defense of things need slapped. (her words not mine).

I looked after her kid for a week once...as stated before in a post. Thats what friends are for, she has looked after my pets in the past, its called being part of a community. She also took over the running of the local tiquando club single handedly so it would not close, just so her son could still have his hobby, she organises events for it, the finances for it and ordering the uniforms for itm meaning no friday nights out...ever... all on top of a full time job, whilst also taking her son to swimming and rugby. So as you can see, being a single parent in not really an excuse for not finding a baby sitter, although not having any friends maybe is!

p.s.

yes i would also like to see a ban on smelly people as there is just NO NEED EVER...

Click here to find out why!

If people cannot afford soap and water, they should not be buying reptiles!


----------



## kemist

If people with children and pushchairs want others to show respect and act responsably they should do the same to others themselves. Twice in town i have had a run in with a mum with push chair. One rammed me with it them blamed me for not moving out the way there was no where to go and i was already in the tight space when she hit me. The second accused me of trying to hurt her child with shopping (i had loads of bags) she pushed past me and it was my fault when a bag came close the her child head. Bus rides are always fun when you have to play dodge the pushchair just to get on or off the bus and stand up all the way home because there is no seats because 16 seats have been removed to allow pushchairs on and one woman with a pushchair and a couple of small children is taking up 4 or 5 seats after paing a single fare.

I appreciate not all pushchair users are like this but they are the reason pushchairs attract attention.


----------



## bikenut

I think the votes speak for themselves. As for a earlier comment I read "ban those whom dont like prams/pushchairs" they wouldnt be many people at the show then would there?

Leave the pushchair at home, carry your offspring if you must take them, I managed back in the day with a brat in each arm. Didnt do me any harm.


----------



## HABU

so much for a family atmosphere eh?


----------



## ambyglam

HABU said:


> so much for a family atmosphere eh?


Its not really a family day out tho is it?

Its a sale of animals and related goods, but then some people seem to think going to asda is a family day out too... maybe these people have never heard of the park!

I have always loved animals and always had pets, I know however that i would have hated a place as crowded, hot and stressful as that reptile show... which is why the rest of europe does not allow children to shows.


----------



## HABU

ambyglam said:


> Its not really a family day out tho is it?
> 
> Its a sale of animals and related goods, but then some people seem to think going to asda is a family day out too... maybe these people have never heard of the park!
> 
> I have always loved animals and always had pets, I know however that i would have hated a place as crowded, hot and stressful as that reptile show... which is why the rest of europe does not allow children to shows.


 
who's fault is it that the venue is so small?

these shows are to sell herps right?

if i were selling herps i would want as many potential customers as possible... married people with children usually have money and jobs... more so than the average teen...


if there was enough room then this would not be an issue...

should they ban families from department stores?... oh that's right... those places don't try to squeeze everyone into a small space... 


ban stollers, kids, wheelchairs, walkers, old people, babies... who's left?


----------



## ambyglam

HABU said:


> who's fault is it that the venue is so small?
> 
> these shows are to sell herps right?
> 
> if i were selling herps i would want as many potential customers as possible... married people with children usually have money and jobs... more so than the average teen...
> 
> 
> if there was enough room then this would not be an issue...
> 
> should they ban families from department stores?... oh that's right... those places don't try to squeeze everyone into a small space...
> 
> 
> ban stollers, kids, wheelchairs, walkers, old people, babies... who's left?


As most of the thread says... why dont people leave their children with a friend or family member, cos to be honest, most people spend more time and money on themselves when they do not have their kids there, as they have no interruptions so they have time to question stall holders and not worry that the kid is getting bored.

and department stores do not generally have the sheer volume of people that the rep shows have as they are only on a couple of times a year.

If the venue was bigger, there would have not been enough traders to fill the hall, and btw, the venue was not too small... it was a decent sized hall.

All we are asking is for people to leave the pushchair outside or at home.

wheelchair users have no choice to use a wheelchair but parents do have a choice when it comes to using a pushchair...so that argument doesnt even exist!

and to play the devils advocate here...

Question:


HABU said:


> ban stollers, kids, wheelchairs, walkers, old people, babies... who's left?


Answer: about 95% of the people at the show lol

I just thought a rediculous statement deserved a rediculous answer! lol


----------



## HABU

ambyglam said:


> As most of the thread says... why dont people leave their children with a friend or family member, cos to be honest, most people spend more time and money on themselves when they do not have their kids there, as they have no interruptions so they have time to question stall holders and not worry that the kid is getting bored.
> 
> and department stores do not generally have the sheer volume of people that the rep shows have as they are only on a couple of times a year.
> 
> If the venue was bigger, there would have not been enough traders to fill the hall, and btw, the venue was not too small... it was a decent sized hall.
> 
> All we are asking is for people to leave the pushchair outside or at home.
> 
> wheelchair users have no choice to use a wheelchair but parents do have a choice when it comes to using a pushchair...so that argument doesnt even exist!
> 
> and to play the devils advocate here...
> 
> Question:
> 
> Answer: about 95% of the people at the show lol
> 
> I just thought a rediculous statement deserved a rediculous answer! lol


 
leave the kids at home... got it...

NORTH AMERICAN REPTILE BREEDERS
CONFERENCE & TRADE SHOW RETURNS TO CHICAGO

WHAT: Open to the public and family-friendly, the 7th Annual North American Reptile Breeders Conference & Trade Show in Chicago is an amazing exhibition and sale of the finest selection of exotic and pet-friendly "herps" in the world. This high quality captive-bred-only reptile show will host over 100 dealers showing over 10,000 animals from across the country. Learn about snakes, frogs, turtles, geckos, iguanas, tortoises and purchase all of the supplies needed to support a herp hobby! Meet Nigel Marven, host of Animal Planet's Prehistoric Planet, and attend his lecture on animals at both poles.

WHEN: Saturday, October 13 from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sunday, October 14 from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.

WHERE: Convention Center at Tinley Park Holiday Inn Select 18501 S. Harlem Avenue (I-80 and Harlem Avenue) Tinley Park, Illinois 60477

TICKETS: Adults: $15 for a weekend pass
Children under 13: $ 8 for a weekend pass
Children 5 and under admitted free, Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts: $5


----------



## carlo69

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Banning pushchairs is a great idea.. I find a lot of people use them as 'weapons' to push and shove people out of the way.
> Banning kids isn't fair but maybe a min age of say 5 or 6 years old.


and what about the 5 or 6 year olds that want to go because they are interested in reptiles, you discriminating against them?


----------



## ladycelestria

ambyglam said:


> wheelchair users have no choice to use a wheelchair but parents do have a choice when it comes to using a pushchair...so that argument doesnt even exist!


i dont have a choice as previously stated, my son has a mental disability, does not warrent a wheelchair as it isnt a physical disability

i dont have family/friends round me to look after him, ban pushchairs and that would be people like myself stuffed... and there is ALOT of people like me out there


----------



## Jazzy B Bunny

carlo69 said:


> and what about the 5 or 6 year olds that want to go because they are interested in reptiles, you discriminating against them?


I said that 5 and 6 year olds should be able to go, if you actually read my post.

I think any child under that should not be allowed really.


----------



## kemist

carlo69 said:


> ban people who dont like pushchairs at shows - YES
> problem solved:2thumb:





kirky1980 said:


> if people are to take pushchairs then tough luck just grow a pair and get on with it.
> 
> iv never herd anything so petty in all my life.:bash:





pigglywiggly said:


> or maybe all whiners&moaners should be banned from shows?





kay&Bert said:


> i think the problem to the solution is :
> perhaps bigger premises ... Why not have marquee's outside thus meaning less people inside less crowding
> 
> and a polite notice around the site: i.e please do not ram other visitors etc.
> 
> and everyone just being polite in general to everyone else, yes it was hot & sticky but that does not require all of the blame being put onto pushchair owners.
> 
> the young girl i assaulted take for instance, she elbowed me several times in the stomach (noting im 20 weeks pregnant) resulting in me politely asking her to be careful as i was pregnant and *i also had a Tshirt on stating 'Bump on Board for a Reptile Hoard'*
> the young girl turned and replied with im here to get reptiles not get nagged at by a pregnant hag!!!
> 
> alot of it comes down to manners, IMO if you show someone respect they will respect you back
> 
> dont just blame 1 target patron, we are all to blame in a sense!
> let common sense prevail!:devil:
> 
> RANT OVER


How does your tshirt make a difference people go to look at reps not read your tshirt. Isn't it common knowledge that getting into the shows is cramped with a bit of pushing and shoving maybe you should have thought of that before taking your bump inside. 



HABU said:


> so much for a family atmosphere eh?


Bigger premises will push up the cost so should everyone pay more just to accomodate the minority who want to take a pushchair. 
I think the best idea would be remove/ban the pesky reps and then all the people who want to buy reps or hobby supplies rather than dodge pushchairs and stray childen wont go and then you can all have your "bump, baby and child show" with out being moaned at.


----------



## kirky1980

lol is this still going on you do all realise you have been typing for no reason whatsoever because nothing is going to change and you will all be back here on the last sunday of september whinging about the same thing all over again.:lol2:
i cant honestly believe what people will whinge about, like its too hot well duh there about a million reptiles all with heat mats or lights or whatever add to that a good few hundred sweaty manky bodys and all at the end of june what did most of you expect for a 5 pound entry fee? a personal assistant wafting you with fans and taking buggies in the ankles for you?
some of you should think yourselves lucky that you have all these shows on your doorsteps and dont have to do 600/700 miles round trips to get to your nearest one :devil: 

so why dosnt everyone have a nice big friendly cuddle and we will all meet back here at the end of september and go at it all over again


----------



## farnell182

ambyglam said:


> I cannot see how people have so few friends that they cannot find a babysitter for a day which is known about months in advance. so for those who like to plan ahead... last sunday in june, last sunday in spetember!
> 
> And please dont use the single parent card...EVER... My friend who is a single parent thinks people who say 'I'm a single parent' in defense of things need slapped. (her words not mine).
> 
> I looked after her kid for a week once...as stated before in a post. Thats what friends are for, she has looked after my pets in the past, its called being part of a community. She also took over the running of the local tiquando club single handedly so it would not close, just so her son could still have his hobby, she organises events for it, the finances for it and ordering the uniforms for itm meaning no friday nights out...ever... all on top of a full
> Ltime job, whilst also taking her son to swimming and rugby. So as you can see, being a single parent in not really an excuse for not finding a baby sitter, although not having any friends maybe is!
> 
> p.s.
> 
> yes i would also like to see a ban on smelly people as there is just NO NEED EVER...
> 
> Click here to find out why!
> 
> If people cannot afford soap and water, they should not be buying reptiles!


I have much respect for people like your friend, the kind that are worth knowing! It would be so easy for her to say I'm not working I'll go on benefits, everybody else does!

But no she takes responsibility!

I also agree anybody who can't plan a babysitter for a years time wants to start being nice to people a bit more! 

If I had kids I know I could get a babysitter within an hour and that's not including family! Granted I've got alot of mates but maybe because I'm likeable? Who knows..


----------



## farnell182

kay&Bert said:


> in light of your opinions, you have to take certain things into account with your comments :
> 
> 1, Not everyone will have the capacity of being able to arrange a babysitter. There are alot of single parents, whom raise their children on their own.
> 
> 2, I personally would take my child yes, as the child is my responsibilty and i do not feel that there would be anyone that i trust enough to look after that child aside from myself.
> 
> im not being selfish what so ever , im just simply stating that there is alot of Personal Circumstances that no one has taken into consideration,
> 
> As for stating that 'i knew what it was like and it was bad enough going there when i am pregnant' well just for your information, i was not aware of what it was going to be like at the donny show as it was my 1st time there. and i took the judgement from myself to leave after being knocked to the stomach and verbally abused! and i left befoire i even got chance to see glimpses of any reptile!!!!
> 
> i will take my baby if necessary yes, even if less then a year old, but there will be measures in place to put that babys protection as priority
> 
> i.e the baby will not be in a pram, s/he will be in a pappoose which will be strapped to myself, heavily padded,
> 
> unfortunatly liek some other persons in the world/..... i do not have the capacity to organise a babysitter for an entire day, i do not have a support network that allows me to have numerous amount time to myself,
> 
> my Partner works away 2 weeks out of 4 so 50/50 chance of him being able to look after the baby at the time, and unfortunatly my dad is currently undergoing multiple sugeries which will lay him up for the next 2 years minimum.
> Being pregnant and having a baby, does not and should not and certainly will not stop me from enjoying my hobby!!!!!! Women and Pregnancy and Babies are all to often shoved in the corner and i will not let this happen to me, i will not be wrapped in cotton wool.





kay&Bert said:


> also if you start wanting to restrict persons whom
> attend the shows :
> 
> 1, Prams, Puschairs
> 2, Pregnant Women, And Babies
> 
> who are you going to target next:
> 
> Fat People becuase they take up too much room
> 
> People whom have BO
> 
> Wheelchair users
> 
> Tell what what why not just make the show invite only, then you can alll weed out the people that you dont want there, and only have the Skinny, Non Smelly, Non Disabled, Non Pregnant or pushchair weilding people there! No Kids, No 'Yes Dear Partners' and see how far that gets you with the show!!!


Ok, you didn't get in the show..basically it's like a tin of roasted sardines!

As for the baby not being in a pram that is more considerate for others, fair play!

But please think twice before taking your baby boy or girl, nobody's lying when they say it's not child friendly! Quite frankly it's dangerous for a child, more dangerous the younger they are!

You've already said you got elbowed 3 or 4 times before getting in, and put it this way, inside was worse! I'm not anti children or anything quite the opposite but it seriously is totally the wrong place to take a child! IMO if you have no babysitter and your chaps working the responsible thing to do would be miss it..sounds harsh but a baby is an accident waiting to happen, and no matter how many times you are told if it did July would want to kill them and really, it wouldn't be their fault! 

As for the wheelchair users, check my posts, I won't explain again!

Anybody who categorises babies in a pram and a disabled person in a wheelchair as the same need to give themselves a slap and go and see a doctor, as something in their head is seriously wrong!!


----------



## ambyglam

HABU said:


> leave the kids at home... got it...
> 
> NORTH AMERICAN REPTILE BREEDERS
> CONFERENCE & TRADE SHOW RETURNS TO CHICAGO
> 
> WHAT: Open to the public and family-friendly, the 7th Annual North American Reptile Breeders Conference & Trade Show in Chicago is an amazing exhibition and sale of the finest selection of exotic and pet-friendly "herps" in the world. This high quality captive-bred-only reptile show will host over 100 dealers showing over 10,000 animals from across the country. Learn about snakes, frogs, turtles, geckos, iguanas, tortoises and purchase all of the supplies needed to support a herp hobby! Meet Nigel Marven, host of Animal Planet's Prehistoric Planet, and attend his lecture on animals at both poles.
> 
> WHEN: Saturday, October 13 from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
> Sunday, October 14 from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.
> 
> WHERE: Convention Center at Tinley Park Holiday Inn Select 18501 S. Harlem Avenue (I-80 and Harlem Avenue) Tinley Park, Illinois 60477
> 
> TICKETS: Adults: $15 for a weekend pass
> Children under 13: $ 8 for a weekend pass
> Children 5 and under admitted free, Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts: $5


This is relevant to European shows in which way?

The doncaster show is not really a show in the way your one is, its basically folk in a room selling stuff. lol

I actually was thinking that it should indeed have some changes made to it such as talks and things which would make it a lot more interactive and user friendly.

There is no learning about things at the show we have... just sales, although you might just learn a bit from the person selling you something, but no real info.

But anyway, yet again all you do is compare two non comparable things, and expo and a local show!


----------



## phelsuma

Anyone want to borrow this for September?

There's an old song by Elvis Costello called "What's so funny about peace love and understanding?" Listen and learn. Respect costs nothing.


----------



## Jazzy B Bunny

Why can't there be a pushchair parking facility like there is for bikes! :lol2:


----------



## farnell182

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Why can't there be a pushchair parking facility like there is for bikes! :lol2:


Theres a lake?


----------



## farnell182

farnell182 said:


> Theres a lake?


Just to add I dis mean just the puahchair, nothing inside :whistling2:


----------



## kemist

farnell182 said:


> Theres a lake?


This would have benefit for the smelly people aswell


----------



## cornmorphs

In the past I have taken mine, and pretty much when they go they all go. I have 4 now. uptil now always at least one has been in a buggy, although i have always been a vendor.. not sure i;d take a buggy if I was looking only.
My lot are hard work, at least in a buggy though you know where they are.


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

@farnell182 , do you know how bloody hard it is to find someone to babysit when you have got 5 kids , let alone trust someone enough to be able to cope with your 5 kids ! ? ! i wont just dump my kids on anyone for the sake of pleasing a bunch of moaners who obviously have nothing better to do with their time :devil:
Get over it for god sake its like been at a blooming nursey on here at times :bash:


----------



## corncrazy

I didn't take my 2 children this time to Doncaster because we had a table selling but usually my 2 children go to every show, they are BOTH in pushchairs they love the shows and look forward to them so I will NOT stop them going just to please winging adults!
My children are 6 and nearly 8 they are in push chairs (made for upto an 11 year old) because they can not walk so unless I get big neon signs stating that they are disabled I get comments by very ignorant people.(ie Kempton show).


----------



## joeyboy

Athravan said:


> Most of the trade shows I go to do not allow pushchairs/buggies (but do still accomodate wheelchairs/disability scooters obviously) and I personally would not take a child to a show with me. All of the horse related expo-s I go to have a creche at the entrance to leave any pushchairs/buggies and then you can carry children if you like. In fact almost every single event I've ever been to has said no pushchairs allowed due to limited space, except for british reptile shows - even though they are also some of the busiest/smallest spaces I've seen at a trade show.
> 
> Even my doctors surgery makes people park pushchairs in the entrance hall and not to be taken into the waiting room or doctors rooms - even though there's more than enough space for them.
> 
> I don't think there should be a set age that people aren't allowed to take children in, it's up to each parent to figure out what's best for their own children, but it's very rare to see kids at the european shows and I don't think I would take anyone under 16 to one personally. None of the European shows I've been too I've ever seen a pushchair and I assume they have a rule - or maybe people just don't do it, but I've never seen a single one.
> 
> I am actually quite suprised that most of the UK reptile shows allow pushchairs given the massively limited amount of space there is between tables.


I think this sort of comment has been overlooked. I've been to a couple of shows(not reptile) and they didn't allow buggies in either because of space restraints. The venues at the reptile expos are more cramped then they were...it's quite a common thing to ban pushchairs to avoid problems with space and people tripping over/getting stuck when it's crowded.

As others have some I really can't see how a very young child, let alone a baby, is going to appreciate being in a cramped room which was around 30c (for Donny), they can't see the animals from buggy height and even if they could, the heat and noise is likely to aggravate them..looking at a lizard or a spider isn't going to do a whole lot...and they're not going to remember the experience when they're older. Someone has said when they're old enough to appreciate the animals and keep one as a pet (with help), then they're old enough for a show. I agree with that pretty much.

As for those with disabilities who need a wheelchair. For those trying to say it's the same thing, the stupidity makes my brain hurt. A disabled person who is mature enough to want to buy some reptiles is totally different from a toddler who hasn't chosen to go to the show. Unless you're trying to say disabled folks are in the same class as toddlers...but I dare say that might offend some of them.


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

You have to realise not everyone has a choice to leave all their kids at home.
Now if id have not have brought the youngest in the pushchair i would of had to bring my 3 yr old who is a live wire and i could of guarenteed he would have knocked something off someones stall so i for one thought of others first. I also did not make a point of placing the pushchair right across in front of someones table i tried my best to keep it out of the way as possible as im considerate like that.
As for the heat issue i agree not ideal for a baby or toddler but come on how difficult is it to go back outside in the shade like we did to cool down ?!? i'll tell you , NOT difficult at all in fact.
You cant say its okay for wheelchair users and not pushchairs they both take up space and both a wheelchair user is a potential customer and so is the parent with the pushchair.
Also carrying a small child in your arms whilst browsing ? thats quite clearly worse they grab hold of anything and everything at least when they are in a pushchair they can be kept out of reach of touching things!
You cant tie responsible parents and irresponsible parents with the same brush. As you may of seen on the thread that got closed Terry (bladeblaster) commented on how well my children were behaved and that they looked like they were enjoying it which they were and did.
If pushchairs got banned i wouldnt be able to attend why should i lose out because i have children , why does some other parent get to go because they have the easy option of finding a babysitter for their kids.
I acted responsible whilst at the show which is more than can be said for the ignorant adults barging past at the show :whip:


----------



## Tds79

Athravan said:


> Most of the trade shows I go to do not allow pushchairs/buggies (but do still accomodate wheelchairs/disability scooters obviously) and I personally would not take a child to a show with me. All of the horse related expo-s I go to have a creche at the entrance to leave any pushchairs/buggies and then you can carry children if you like. In fact almost every single event I've ever been to has said no pushchairs allowed due to limited space, except for british reptile shows - even though they are also some of the busiest/smallest spaces I've seen at a trade show.
> 
> Even my doctors surgery makes people park pushchairs in the entrance hall and not to be taken into the waiting room or doctors rooms - even though there's more than enough space for them.
> 
> I don't think there should be a set age that people aren't allowed to take children in, it's up to each parent to figure out what's best for their own children, but it's very rare to see kids at the european shows and I don't think I would take anyone under 16 to one personally. None of the European shows I've been too I've ever seen a pushchair and I assume they have a rule - or maybe people just don't do it, but I've never seen a single one.
> 
> I am actually quite suprised that most of the UK reptile shows allow pushchairs given the massively limited amount of space there is between tables.


I have to agree with this, every other type of show i have ever been pushchairs have not been allowed, I do not understand why this isnt the case in reptile shows, I understand people may want to take their children and some people have to BUT I simply do not think there is the space in reptile shows for pushchairs.


----------



## kemist

xXxLynnxXx said:


> You have to realise not everyone has a choice to leave all their kids at home.
> Now if id have not have brought the youngest in the pushchair i would of had to bring my 3 yr old who is a live wire and i could of guarenteed he would have knocked something off someones stall so i for one thought of others first. I also did not make a point of placing the pushchair right across in front of someones table i tried my best to keep it out of the way as possible as im considerate like that.
> As for the heat issue i agree not ideal for a baby or toddler but come on how difficult is it to go back outside in the shade like we did to cool down ?!? i'll tell you , NOT difficult at all in fact.
> You cant say its okay for wheelchair users and not pushchairs they both take up space and both a wheelchair user is a potential customer and so is the parent with the pushchair.
> Also carrying a small child in your arms whilst browsing ? thats quite clearly worse they grab hold of anything and everything at least when they are in a pushchair they can be kept out of reach of touching things!
> You cant tie responsible parents and irresponsible parents with the same brush. As you may of seen on the thread that got closed Terry (bladeblaster) commented on how well my children were behaved and that they looked like they were enjoying it which they were and did.
> If pushchairs got banned i wouldnt be able to attend why should i lose out because i have children , why does some other parent get to go because they have the easy option of finding a babysitter for their kids.
> I acted responsible whilst at the show which is more than can be said for the ignorant adults barging past at the show :whip:


 

I appreciate your children and pushchair may not have been a problem but if pushchairs were banned you would have to find a sitter or make a sacrifice for your children its not like you are being asked to give up your animals. As others have said wheelchairs should not be put in the same category for several reasons firstly its not legal to ban wheelchairs and secondly you can not expect someone to give up their right to go out because of a disability. Children are a choice you make and they come with consequences. I would like to know why people should tolerate badly behaved children and parents just because tours can behave.


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

kemist said:


> I appreciate your children and pushchair may not have been a problem but if pushchairs were banned you would have to find a sitter or make a sacrifice for your children its not like you are being asked to give up your animals. As others have said wheelchairs should not be put in the same category for several reasons firstly its not legal to ban wheelchairs and secondly you can not expect someone to give up their right to go out because of a disability. Children are a choice you make and they come with consequences. I would like to know why people should tolerate badly behaved children and parents just because tours can behave.


And how many so called badly behaved children were there compared to the arrogant rude adults that were barging people out of the way to get a good deal ? hmmmm ! my dads in a wheelchair electric one *pictures it now some rude pushy person barging by and knocking his throttle stick eek now that would be nasty* and it would chuffing well do more damage than a sodding pushchair.(for the record incase anyone misinterprets my text i have absolutley nothing against wheelchair users attending the show everyone should be allowed to)

You guys honestly have nothing better to do , do you? sorry but your bang out of order and somewhat rude !:devil:

Anyway im done with this its petty, selfish and down right pathetic :bash:


----------



## Tds79

xXxLynnxXx said:


> And how many so called badly behaved children were there compared to the arrogant rude adults that were barging people out of the way to get a good deal ? hmmmm ! my dads in a wheelchair electric one *pictures it now some rude pushy person barging by and knocking his throttle stick eek now that would be nasty* and it would chuffing well do more damage than a sodding pushchair.(for the record incase anyone misinterprets my text i have absolutley nothing against wheelchair users attending the show everyone should be allowed to)
> 
> You guys honestly have nothing better to do , do you? sorry but your bang out of order and somewhat rude !:devil:
> 
> Anyway im done with this its petty, selfish and down right pathetic :bash:



If there was so many rude adults pushing their way through then i would say a reptile show is not a place for children anyway. 
I honestly don't think anyone has been rude at all and i think it is a shame you have taken it that way. 
I understand that being a parent that takes their children to shows it has got your back up reading a thread about people not wanting pushchairs in a reptile show, but as previously said the venues are too small and crowed and most other types of shows in the uk (and i believe most reptile shows outside the uk) do not allow pushchairs and have found it to work out well.


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

It will be banning dwarfs next folks :whistling2:


----------



## Tds79

Aslong as they ban pushchairs first i am sure people will be happy : victory:


----------



## farnell182

@ Lynne

It's all well and good your kids behaving so does that mean every child will behave? I'm quite the opposite of being anti children, infect I have alot of time for them, but a rep show no matter how you look at it isn't the right place for them!

As has been said, with having children comes a responsibility and maybe means there are times you will miss out! 

Like I have said I'm not against kids but it's dangerous for kids, plenty of parents have agreed they would never take kids! 

It's a difference of opinion that is all. I'd never dream of taking a child as for one it's not fair on them and two it's bloody dangerous place for them. Kids are also exactly that..kids they do kiddy things and as I have said a couple of times I watched a young child nearly pull a row of inverts off obviously not meaning to, but that goes to prove a point in itself..

As for anybody putting people with a disability in the same category ad kids (as I have said if you had read through) needs to get to the soca quick, there's something wrong in your head! (it's also bang out of order) toddlers and people with a disability are totally different altogether! It's unbelievable that people talk about them as the same situation!


----------



## farnell182

xXxLynnxXx said:


> And how many so called badly behaved children were there compared to the arrogant rude adults that were barging people out of the way to get a good deal ? hmmmm ! my dads in a wheelchair electric one *pictures it now some rude pushy person barging by and knocking his throttle stick eek now that would be nasty* and it would chuffing well do more damage than a sodding pushchair.(for the record incase anyone misinterprets my text i have absolutley nothing against wheelchair users attending the show everyone should be allowed to)
> 
> You guys honestly have nothing better to do , do you? sorry but your bang out of order and somewhat rude !:devil:
> 
> Anyway im done with this its petty, selfish and down right pathetic :bash:


See now you say we have nothing better to do, were just arguing our opinions it's not a heated debate. Both sides have said as much as each other so saying this is selfish and pathetic goes for you too? Right?

Also, the poll results speak for themselves (other parents have also said would be best with no pushchairs, just for the record)


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

okay one of the reasons for banning pushchairs is they take up too much space right ? a pushchair takes up no more space than a wheelchair been electric or someone pushing a manual in either party one of the pair is a potential buyer . Its got nothing to do with classing a disabled person confined to a wheelchair as a baby/toddler in the same category as regards choice of been there ie the carer for said disabled person may not want to be there either but needs to be to help. I dont need my head looking at its perfectly fine thankyou as i mentioned in an earlier post my dad has been in a chair for years.
As far as having children i should have to make sacrifes and take the consequences pfffttt ! what a load of crap seriously heard it all now :lol2:
oh and one last thing why do people insist on adding an 'e' to my name :bash:



farnell182 said:


> @ Lynne
> 
> It's all well and good your kids behaving so does that mean every child will behave? I'm quite the opposite of being anti children, infect I have alot of time for them, but a rep show no matter how you look at it isn't the right place for them!
> 
> As has been said, with having children comes a responsibility and maybe means there are times you will miss out!
> 
> Like I have said I'm not against kids but it's dangerous for kids, plenty of parents have agreed they would never take kids!
> 
> It's a difference of opinion that is all. I'd never dream of taking a child as for one it's not fair on them and two it's bloody dangerous place for them. Kids are also exactly that..kids they do kiddy things and as I have said a couple of times I watched a young child nearly pull a row of inverts off obviously not meaning to, but that goes to prove a point in itself..
> 
> As for anybody putting people with a disability in the same category ad kids (as I have said if you had read through) needs to get to the soca quick, there's something wrong in your head! (it's also bang out of order) toddlers and people with a disability are totally different altogether! It's unbelievable that people talk about them as the same situation!


----------



## farnell182

xXxLynnxXx said:


> okay one of the reasons for banning pushchairs is they take up too much space right ? a pushchair takes up no more space than a wheelchair been electric or someone pushing a manual in either party one of the pair is a potential buyer . Its got nothing to do with classing a disabled person confined to a wheelchair as a baby/toddler in the same category as regards choice of been there ie the carer for said disabled person may not want to be there either but needs to be to help. I dont need my head looking at its perfectly fine thankyou as i mentioned in an earlier post my dad has been in a chair for years.
> As far as having children i should have to make sacrifes and take the consequences pfffttt ! what a load of crap seriously heard it all now :lol2:
> oh and one last thing why do people insist on adding an 'e' to my name :bash:


Because your names spelt wrong  (sorry)

Glad you've heard it all now, nothing left to hear : victory:

Spotted disabled people buying reps, didn't see anybody in pushchairs doing so though..strange considering you think they're the same? 

That's the first big difference, second, disabled people with wheelchairs can decide for THEMSELVES if they want to go, won't play up, won't have a tantrum..the list is endless..

Oh and you didn't reply about if you were being petty along with 
us??:whistling2:


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## kemist

I for one like being in the petty club it gives me something to do while my nail varnish dries. Since you dont have to make sacrifices when you have children i'll be on the dancefloor on friday nights with a pint in one hand and the buggy in the other.

Edit: I'll leave my drink on the table glass is a safety risk on the dancefloor.


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

farnell182 said:


> Because your names spelt wrong  (sorry)
> 
> Glad you've heard it all now, nothing left to hear : victory:
> 
> Spotted disabled people buying reps, didn't see anybody in pushchairs doing so though..strange considering you think they're the same?
> 
> That's the first big difference, second, disabled people with wheelchairs can decide for THEMSELVES if they want to go, won't play up, won't have a tantrum..the list is endless..
> 
> Oh and you didn't reply about if you were being petty along with
> us??:whistling2:


Its like flogging a dead horse you seriously are not reading my posts correctly.
As far as me been petty ? no just defending my corner against the wannabe politicians *pictures the house of commons* :Na_Na_Na_Na:



kemist said:


> I for one like being in the petty club it gives me something to do while my nail varnish dries. Since you dont have to make sacrifices when you have children i'll be on the dancefloor on friday nights with a pint in one hand and the buggy in the other.
> 
> Edit: I'll leave my drink on the table glass is a safety risk on the dancefloor.


Your seriously comparing a reptile show with a nightclub ? wow :gasp: give yourself a gold sticker :2thumb:


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## kemist

I've got my gold sticker. Its a star! 

Also since we are getting stickers for comparrisons i'm sending you one for the wheelchair/pushchair one.

Anyhoo since all i have left to offer is sarcasm I'll simply take it for granted you and i will never agree on this lynn and go find another thread to read.


----------



## farnell182

xXxLynnxXx said:


> Its like flogging a dead horse you seriously are not reading my posts correctly.
> As far as me been petty ? no just defending my corner against the wannabe politicians *pictures the house of commons* :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Being as it's 50/50 that makes both sides petty and both wannabe politicians, being as each side has replied back to each other, stop being so hypocritical both sides have done exactly the same simple as!


----------



## becky89

Can't believe this is still going on :lol2:

I don't have a problem with pushchairs themselves it's usually the person controlling it that I have the problem with. Some people use the chairs to push through, or they bash you in the leg with it or cause a traffic jam in various places.. Or the one's who expect you to jump out their way cos they're coming through and things like that. However considerate parents with chairs I don't mind. There are still more than enough rude, pushy people without the chairs there. 
Can't say I'd ever bring young kids (like less than 4/5 years) with me no matter how much I wanted to go to the show. Not really a nice environment, really hot, nothing for the kids to do, they'll end up getting shoved or stepped on by some arsehole. If I couldn't get a sitter I just wouldn't go, that would be my sacrifice for the kids, we'd go somewhere more kid friendly like to the park instead : victory:


----------



## rum&coke

I love RFUK sometimes :no1:


----------



## xXxLynnxXx

farnell182 said:


> xXxLynnxXx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its like flogging a dead horse you seriously are not reading my posts correctly.
> As far as me been petty ? no just defending my corner against the wannabe politicians *pictures the house of commons* :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Being as it's 50/50 that makes both sides petty and both wannabe politicians, being as each side has replied back to each other, stop being so hypocritical both sides have done exactly the same simple as!
> 
> 
> 
> Okay 'simple as' i'll stop being hypocritical , i'll say 60/40 though , the 60 been you just because you have been the chief contributor to the thread :notworthy::Na_Na_Na_Na:
> Anyhooo enough of this im off to wash and polish my bike taroooooo : victory:
Click to expand...


----------



## farnell182

xXxLynnxXx said:


> farnell182 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay 'simple as' i'll stop being hypocritical , i'll say 60/40 though , the 60 been you just because you have been the chief contributor to the thread :notworthy::Na_Na_Na_Na:
> Anyhooo enough of this im off to wash and polish my bike taroooooo : victory:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree to some of it I'm happy at 60/40
> 
> Don't usually get involved on threads (as you'd see by looking through posts) because I won't stop lol
> 
> Anyway, I'm the chief!
Click to expand...


----------



## carlo69

Pauline said:


> The problem isn't so much with pushchairs it's the adults pushing them who are so ignorant they park them right behind you so when you step away from the table you fall over them, it's the same in shops not just rep shows.
> 
> I do also think it's very selfish of parents to subject their tiny tots to the conditions in the hall especially when, as I said on the other thread they know it will be hot in there, I certainly wouldn't. I'm sure they could get a baby sitter for the day. I agree children should be encouraged to appreciate reptiles but dragging them round a show should wait until they are a little older. An alternative would be for parents to take turns and leave their little one's with one parent in the entrance while the other does the show and then swap over.
> 
> I am surprised that health and safety haven't a say in a matter like this.


Health and safety you are kidding arent you? 
we'll not be allowed in to shows soon without steel toecap boots on 
in case someone steps on your tootsies :roll2::roll2:


----------



## Davism

I was at the show at the weekend and i was hit in the ankle by someone on a mobility scooter, it was a accident i hope but at the end of the day some people will need to take there little ones to the show if it means that is there only ways of going they they will take there little ones, if you want to ban pushchairs you will need to ban anyone that cant walk around on there own so in my eyes stop moaning get up early and get there first and hopefully you mite beat the pushchairs next time. I don't not have kids my self but i still don't see why its fair to ban push chairs. Why don't all you people who moan about pushchairs send emails to the teams that host the shows and complain that the venue they pic are to small for everyone and pushchairs, wheelchairs, mobility scooters


----------



## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> See now you say we have nothing better to do, were just arguing our opinions it's not a heated debate. Both sides have said as much as each other so saying this is selfish and pathetic goes for you too? Right?
> 
> Also, the poll results speak for themselves (other parents have also said would be best with no pushchairs, just for the record)


 sorry I disagree the poll stands for nothing , lots of reasons but if you have any common sense you will know what they are, or do i have to list them all?


----------



## carlo69

Davism said:


> I was at the show at the weekend and i was hit in the ankle by someone on a mobility scooter, it was a accident i hope but at the end of the day some people will need to take there little ones to the show if it means that is there only ways of going they they will take there little ones, if you want to ban pushchairs you will need to ban anyone that cant walk around on there own so in my eyes stop moaning get up early and get there first and hopefully you mite beat the pushchairs next time. I don't not have kids my self but i still don't see why its fair to ban push chairs. Why don't all you people who moan about pushchairs send emails to the teams that host the shows and complain that the venue they pic are to small for everyone and pushchairs, wheelchairs, mobility scooters


 Please do not email moaning at people like me who help to organise shows ,there is a lot of work goes into making shows possible at all, so your support would be much appreciated or there will be no more shows for all the hobbyists out there to go too we need to stick together.


----------



## NickBenger

carlo69 said:


> Please do not email moaning at people like me who help to organise shows ,there is a lot of work goes into making shows possible at all, so your support would be much appreciated or there will be no more shows for all the hobbyists out there to go too we need to stick together.


I'm only going to quote this post but it refers to all. I'm sure everyone here apprieciates the work those that organise shows and sort this all out do. HOWEVER when you're doing ANYTHING you need to be able to take constructive critisicm and listen to your audience so that your product can improve. In this case you need to listen to peoples feedback and try to work off it. 

It's not a case of us being ungrateful, it's a case of constructive critisicm. It will help the show to get better and better. It's a positive thing, not a negative.


----------



## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> sorry I disagree the poll stands for nothing , lots of reasons but if you have any common sense you will know what they are, or do i have to list them all?


So why come on a poll thread if it stands for nothing? I'm sure if it was the other way around there would be a 'told you so'

Granted, nothing will change because of this poll, but the people voting on the poll ARE the people the shows should take note of. As said above it's constructive criticism which I also said the otherday on another thread


----------



## carlo69

TheDogMan said:


> I'm only going to quote this post but it refers to all. I'm sure everyone here apprieciates the work those that organise shows and sort this all out do. HOWEVER when you're doing ANYTHING you need to be able to take constructive critisicm and listen to your audience so that your product can improve. In this case you need to listen to peoples feedback and try to work off it.
> 
> It's not a case of us being ungrateful, it's a case of constructive critisicm. It will help the show to get better and better. It's a positive thing, not a negative.


Excluding people who cannot get babysitters will always be a bad thing, reducing the number of people able to attend shows is a slippery slope who is next? It is not constructive critisicm it is plain and simply a whinge.


----------



## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> So why come on a poll thread if it stands for nothing? I'm sure if it was the other way around there would be a 'told you so'
> 
> Granted, nothing will change because of this poll, but the people voting on the poll ARE the people the shows should take note of. As said above it's constructive criticism which I also said the otherday on another thread


So why are you argueing then if the poll will say it all? I am on here because iam a father of 4 children and they all love the shows, and how do you know the people voting have ever even been to a show? and as i said above it is not constructive it is a whinge. I am going to leave it there as i have made my point several times I do believe you are whingeing just to whinge.


----------



## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> So why are you argueing then if the poll will say it all? I am on here because iam a father of 4 children and they all love the shows, and how do you know the people voting have ever even been to a show? and as i said above it is not constructive it is a whinge. I am going to leave it there as i have made my point several times I do believe you are whingeing just to whinge.


Whinging just to whinge..interesting..

I wish you would stop whinging about me whinging 

I understand they may like the shows, I don't doubt it! Just as they would like pet shops or zoos 

Imagine if everybody attending took their 4 kids..(obviously not everybody has 4 kids or any kids for that matter but you get the idea) it would be no longer enjoyable for anybody


----------



## KurtH

Or maybe ban miserable tossers who have nothing better to do with their lives but bitch others......

You were in pushchairs once remember :whistling2:


----------



## farnell182

KurtH said:


> Or maybe ban miserable tossers who have nothing better to do with their lives but bitch others......
> 
> You were in pushchairs once remember :whistling2:


Not in hot stuffy reptile shows with no room to move..ya tosser!

I would of been at the park or something!


----------



## Ssthisto

KurtH said:


> Or maybe ban miserable tossers who have nothing better to do with their lives but bitch others......
> 
> You were in pushchairs once remember :whistling2:


Yes, but only in places appropriate to being there in a pushchair... Otherwise my parents either didn't go or they arranged a sitter. I can't imagine my mum taking toddler-me to a crowded hot reptile show even knowing that I loved reptiles back then... She would have taken me to the kid-friendly zoo instead.


----------



## KurtH

Then wheelchairs,mobility scooters and fatties should be banned too.....


----------



## Tds79

KurtH said:


> Then wheelchairs,mobility scooters and fatties should be banned too.....


You do realise what a pleb you are coming across as. 

So as a parent you think it is fine to take a child to a hot crowed venue that they won't get anything out of...all because the parent wants to go a buy a reptile ?...I don't know about you but when i was a kid my parents took me to child friendly places & if it was somewhere like a reptile show i didn't go and they got me a sitter...or would that mean that people would have to fork out some money on a sitter so less to spend on reptiles ? 
Honestly don't know why you are all getting your knickers in a twist....my parents used to go to horse shows all the time when me and my sisters were little, most of them was no pushchairs, they ether didn't take us or they took it in turns carrying us. Its not a hard concept.


----------



## farnell182

Ssthisto said:


> Yes, but only in places appropriate to being there in a pushchair... Otherwise my parents either didn't go or they arranged a sitter. I can't imagine my mum taking toddler-me to a crowded hot reptile show even knowing that I loved reptiles back then... She would have taken me to the kid-friendly zoo instead.


That's the most sensible thing that's been said on these threads: victory:

Your parents seem to have lots of consideration for others



KurtH said:


> Then wheelchairs,mobility scooters and fatties should be banned too.....


If you take the time to read through these have been covered numerous times

Anybody putting people with a disability in the same category as people young enough to be in pushchairs needs to go to the docs to get their head looked at. Totally different situation 

(for the record, young kids in wheelchairs, who are young enough to be in a pushchair don't need to be there either before anything is said on that)


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## farnell182

Tds79 said:


> You do realise what a pleb you are coming across as.
> 
> So as a parent you think it is fine to take a child to a hot crowed venue that they won't get anything out of...all because the parent wants to go a buy a reptile ?...I don't know about you but when i was a kid my parents took me to child friendly places & if it was somewhere like a reptile show i didn't go and they got me a sitter...or would that mean that people would have to fork out some money on a sitter so less to spend on reptiles ?
> Honestly don't know why you are all getting your knickers in a twist....my parents used to go to horse shows all the time when me and my sisters were little, most of them was no pushchairs, they ether didn't take us or they took it in turns carrying us. Its not a hard concept.


Exactly, even jobless bums that I pay my taxes for id rather my money went towards a babysitter for the day


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## KurtH

Yawn!


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## Tds79

KurtH said:


> Yawn!


Run out of things to say ? 

Just a hint for all saying they dont have access to a sitter.....thing called the yellowpages has a lovely section you should maybe look in 

Childminders & Creches in United Kingdom  » Yell.com


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## KurtH

Nope......

I don't even go to shows as you lot constantly preach that people shouldn't impulse buy :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Tds79

KurtH said:


> Nope......
> 
> I don't even go to shows as you lot constantly preach that people shouldn't impulse buy :Na_Na_Na_Na:


So you don't go to shows but chose to come on a thread and have a moan about it anyway......makes sense.


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## KurtH

Tds79 said:


> So you don't go to shows but chose to come on a thread and have a moan about it anyway......makes sense.


Lol.....so I'm not allowed on a forum now because I font go to shows?
You get funnier every post......

Grow up!


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## Jazzy B Bunny

KurtH said:


> Nope......
> 
> I don't even go to shows as you lot constantly preach that people shouldn't impulse buy :Na_Na_Na_Na:


So you obviously have no clue what its like then, if you don't go to any?!

You don't have to impulse buy at shows, you can plan in advance what you'd like to get... durr.


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## farnell182

Tds79 said:


> Run out of things to say ?
> 
> Just a hint for all saying they dont have access to a sitter.....thing called the yellowpages has a lovely section you should maybe look in
> 
> Childminders & Creches in*United Kingdom *» Yell.com


Quality lol



KurtH said:


> Nope......
> 
> I don't even go to shows as you lot constantly preach that people shouldn't impulse buy :Na_Na_Na_Na:


That's a valid point I'm sure a good few do buy on impulse. Although I'd say most do have in mind what they want and go there looking for exactly that (as I did) infect I come back with less than I wanted

What people don't realise is many on here have a good few set ups readily available anyway I have 6 spare and im sure others might have 50 or more spare so if I come back with 6 snakes they would be going straight into a home no messing about,


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## farnell182

KurtH said:


> Lol.....so I'm not allowed on a forum now because I font go to shows?
> You get funnier every post......
> 
> Grow up!


I think you are missing the point he's getting at, I think I've got what he's saying right..

Basically if you had went you would not know how hot and cramped it was with people barging past etc..

I'm not sure hold old your little lad is but if you had been maybe you would think different about how much of a good idea it would be to take a child in a pushchair (I certainly wouldn't be taking any child of mine until old enough to care for an animal) it's nothing personal against kids: victory:


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## Ssthisto

KurtH said:


> Then wheelchairs,mobility scooters and fatties should be banned too.....


I think a better ban would be on "inconsiderate people".

Consider the effect your actions will have on others; if the sum total is more negative than positive, don't take that action. I am personally not convinced that there is a positive to taking a very young child to a reptile show that outweighs the possible negatives AND couldn't more readily be met by taking the child to a zoo or museum instead - and the museums often (always?) have the advantage of being free. 

Of course, _adults _who barge past people, stand on people's feet (no matter how old the person who's getting stood on is), push them out of the way or otherwise act like total tools should also be banned.... a much more difficult prospect.



farnell182 said:


> That's the most sensible thing that's been said on these threads: victory:
> 
> Your parents seem to have lots of consideration for others


Yes. And they taught me to do the same. 

I realise it isn't always easy to find a sitter you trust on short notice, but if you know six months or a year in advance that there's a reptile show "around this date" that you'd like to go to, surely that is plenty of time to arrange something if you really, really want to go. 

Same goes for people whose other halves don't like reptiles and don't really want to go - why make them? Arrange to carpool with someone who does want to be there - there's lots of us, all over the country, and if you start looking a couple of months in advance you're likely to find someone who's going and has spare seats in the car


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## Tds79

KurtH said:


> Lol.....so I'm not allowed on a forum now because I font go to shows?
> You get funnier every post......
> 
> Grow up!


The fact you clearly have completely missed what i am saying is whats funny . . . . . Where did i say anything about you not being allowed on the forum . . . . What i said was that how can you comment on something that doesnt even affect you because you clearly said you do not go to shows . . . . Not sure how what i said means i need to grow up :hmm:


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Whinging just to whinge..interesting..
> 
> I wish you would stop whinging about me whinging
> 
> I understand they may like the shows, I don't doubt it! Just as they would like pet shops or zoos
> 
> Imagine if everybody attending took their 4 kids..(obviously not everybody has 4 kids or any kids for that matter but you get the idea) it would be no longer enjoyable for anybody


ok :roll2:you obviously attend loads of shows don't you? are your ankles really badly bruised?:roll2:


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> ok :roll2:you obviously attend loads of shows don't you? are your ankles really badly bruised?:roll2:


Erm was that supposed to be funny?

I'm really missing to point of this post..

Got hit by a dew pushchairs, I'm considerate enough to make space for them though even though sometimes felt like kicking the parents in the teeth..


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Erm was that supposed to be funny?
> 
> I'm really missing to point of this post..
> 
> Got hit by a dew pushchairs, I'm considerate enough to make space for them though even though sometimes felt like kicking the parents in the teeth..


:roll2::roll2::roll2:


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## farnell182

carlo69 said:


> :roll2::roll2::roll2:


Is that all you have left?


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## tigger79

this thread and vote is pathetic, i have a 5 month old, i would of taken him to the show but due to the dogs needing vet treatment i didnt have the funds to go, both my wife and i currently do not trust anyone enough to leave our son with and dont have the luxuary of family close by, taking him to the show will help him in his developement as he wont be constantly left in the buggy, also we want him to grow up and learn about reptiles.

also saying that fat people and those that smell shud be banned is also a load of cods wallop, i personally am slightly overweight and i also suffer with a condition that causes me to sweat excessively and its not curable, 

before slagging people who are unable to defend themselves (not all people who attend shows come on here) take into consideration that you dont know there circumstances, therefore wind your neck in and find something else to moan about.


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## skippy225

put a boxing ring in the middle of the show and let folk slog it out , simples :lol2:


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## Cutter

If we're going to start banning pushchairs in Reptile shows, they the hell stop there!? Lets start banning them from supermarkets, and other such busy places! 

I personally despise pushchairs, but on the other hand, I also despise little kids running around screaming? So which do I choose - the pushchair. I can not shout at someone else child, I can on the other hand - shout at whoever is steering the dreadful thing! :flrt:

From personal experience, I think a Reptile Show is no place for a child anyway - They are very busy, and very pushy, and no one gives two s**** whether or not they push against anyone, and it is very tiring, and kids always act up when they're tired.

And this is when you get onto the large subject of "Kids in pubs" - my my.


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## Davism

so all you people who want to ban pushchairs think its also a good idea to ban wheelchairs mobility scooters? because i was hit by a mobility scooter so does that give me the right to slap the woman driving. NO it does not it was a accident, i dint just jump up and shout she you hit me you should be band.

all i have heard from you guys say that they should be band is the should not be there to young, to hot, pushchairs hitting people

if you guys know that there are going to be there then why dint you stay home if it was such a problem or did you have to go so you could collect something pre-order or try and get a bargain, probably the same reason they had to go and take there little ones

before any one jumps at me i think they should stay


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## Cutter

Davism said:


> so all you people who want to ban pushchairs think its also a good idea to ban wheelchairs mobility scooters? because i was hit by a mobility scooter so does that give me the right to slap the woman driving. NO it does not it was a accident, i dint just jump up and shout she you hit me you should be band.
> 
> all i have heard from you guys say that they should be band is the should not be there to young, to hot, pushchairs hitting people
> 
> if you guys know that there are going to be there then why dint you stay home if it was such a problem or did you have to go so you could collect something pre-order or try and get a bargain, probably the same reason they had to go and take there little ones
> 
> before any one jumps at me i think they should stay


]

Fact of the matter is, they are not our children, so we should not dictate if they should go or not.

Same with our animals, people should not dictate to whether we keep them or not.

People are entitled to take thier kids anywhere (within reason) not matter how much we ***** and moan. When the time comes, and I shall be behind a pushchair, I will be ranting and raving that no one respects the fact I have children, and they come with me wherever I go.


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## Davism

at the end of the day there would be no reason to moan about pushchairs if people just looked at the hole pic and thought about everyone not just themselves


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## Ssthisto

Cutter said:


> ]entitled to take thier kids anywhere (within reason)


And, as I've pointed out previously... my parents would not have seen taking ME to a reptile show like the UK ones in a pushchair as "within reason". That's how I was brought up, and therefore that's what I learned was normal.

I didn't get to go to a formal indoor dog show until I was six or seven - and that was growing up around the selfsame dogs that were being shown. I did get to go to the fun matches held in a park with a fenced playground at a younger age, but I still didn't get to go when I was too young to be trusted to stay in the fenced play area.


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## KurtH

Davism said:


> at the end of the day there would be no reason to moan about pushchairs if people just looked at the hole pic and thought about everyone not just themselves


That's what I was trying to get at but my tourettes must've kicked in :lol2:


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## Davism

yea that is how you was brought up but that don't mean you can say it is ok to stop every one from doing it just because its what you do everyone has there own choice and they will make it and its not right for everyone to say well i would do that and i would do this, so what your not the one with the pushchair, as i said before there are other people in the crowd that cause the same problem the pushchairs do, but because my nan said no i will stay at home and not go because i don't want to get in the way on my mobility scooter, it don't mean i run round saying ban everything on wheels


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Is that all you have left?


no just realised how ridiculous your argument is , and that whatever you say i will be right because pushchairs will never be banned from shows so:biteme::roll2:


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## xXxLynnxXx

carlo69 said:


> no just realised how ridiculous your argument is , and that whatever you say i will be right because pushchairs will never be banned from shows so:biteme::roll2:


Win :no1::2thumb:


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## Tds79

carlo69 said:


> no just realised how ridiculous your argument is , and that whatever you say i will be right because pushchairs will never be banned from shows so:biteme::roll2:


They used to say that about other animal shows....I wouldnt be so certain when we are one of the only countries that allow pushchairs into reptile shows, if enough people complained about it, it could happen.


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## carlo69

Tds79 said:


> They used to say that about other animal shows....I wouldnt be so certain when we are one of the only countries that allow pushchairs into reptile shows, if enough people complained about it, it could happen.


Well i know one show that it will never happen too for sure :2thumb:


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## carlo69

Tds79 said:


> They used to say that about other animal shows....I wouldnt be so certain when we are one of the only countries that allow pushchairs into reptile shows, if enough people complained about it, it could happen.


Sorry forgot to ask which countries are those then as i travel regularly to shows on the continent , I must just be missing the ones in the obscure countries of europe you are talking about


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## crestiegirl

Does that then mean that wheel chair users should be banned too? Yes they get in the way nut equal rights......does this mean you dont have any children yourself? I have a 2.5 year óle and i try to get my mum to have her but if i cant Im polite and we manage!


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## R0NST3R

nice one. Lets stop pushchairs getting into reptile shows. Lets also discriminate against disabled people and stop wheelchairs and mobility scooters.


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## farnell182

crestiegirl said:


> Does that then mean that wheel chair users should be banned too? Yes they get in the way nut equal rights......does this mean you dont have any children yourself? I have a 2.5 year óle and i try to get my mum to have her but if i cant Im polite and we manage!





R0NST3R said:


> nice one. Lets stop pushchairs getting into reptile shows. Lets also discriminate against disabled people and stop wheelchairs and mobility scooters.


Ahh the joys of people who can't be bothered reading, if you had bothered to read through disability has been covered (50 or so times by now) 

Totally different situation and stupidity would be the only thing making somebody put the two in the same category :bash:


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## crestiegirl

what im trying to say is reptile shows should be for everyone to enjoy and why should people in different circumstances be unable to attend,as long as everyone is polite and courteous there is no need for bans to be imposed. lets not all become so anal that it ruins the hobby. And being impolite doesnt win an arguement i just dont have time to go through 15 pages of comments although clearly you do....


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## carlo69

farnell182 said:


> Ahh the joys of people who can't be bothered reading, if you had bothered to read through disability has been covered (50 or so times by now)
> 
> Totally different situation and stupidity would be the only thing making somebody put the two in the same category :bash:


and why would that be ? surely you can see its not about disability or being young enough to be in a pushchair its about people being ignorant if you see a wheelchair you make room for them to get through surely that applies to pushchairs too, its called manners where i come from


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## selina20

This is disgusting. So because i have 2 children both in a pushchair i cant go to a show because i cant leave them at home on their own. That is utterly rediculous and imo prejudice tbh. So are they guna ban wheel chairs then seeing as they take up more room than a pushchair. I found at the BTS the people at the door were willing to watch my pram while i carried my daughter who was 6 weeks old. Yea kids cry so do adults if u kick them hard enough. Would they prefer us to let them S**t on the floor then rather than change nappies???


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## kirky1980

hahaha i cant believe this is still going on does it bother you that when you go back in september once again you will come home with mama's and papa's tattooed up your leg after you spend a week arguing about it on the internet. 

i suggest closing this thread so some of you poor people dont lose another week of your lives arguing about something that aint going to change


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## carlo69

kirky1980 said:


> hahaha i cant believe this is still going on does it bother you that when you go back in september once again you will come home with mama's and papa's tattooed up your leg after you spend a week arguing about it on the internet.
> 
> i suggest closing this thread so some of you poor people dont lose another week of your lives arguing about something that aint going to change


 
:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## carlo69

*Hi*

Just thought i would say our show went without a hitch and a lot of pushchairs were there to share a great day:2thumb:


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## snaketats

Il still go to show with my kids as they have an interest in reptiles. If people dream of giving a dirty look and i see it, it might just remain on there face for a long time. They wont be banned due to discrimination they might be able to control it on age of children like they do in some theme parks but you just have to get over the fact that they will be there open your eyes and have the manners to wait just a few seconds it takes 10times longer for the parent and child to see what they want to joe bloggs wondering about nipping between spaces


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## NickBenger

Let this thread die for .... sake :devil:


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## carlo69

TheDogMan said:


> Let this thread die for .... sake :devil:


ok but why?:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## NickBenger

carlo69 said:


> ok but why?:Na_Na_Na_Na:


The argument has got ridiculously boring...


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## PeteNhollie

I really can't believe people are so pathetic and this subject is still going. I have 3 small children who in previous expo's have left with babysitters while have attented. I don't see a problem with myself or any other parent bringing young children along. You people should be really ashamed of yourselves. Me and my missues have decided on protest out of this lenghty debate that at kempton we WILL be bringing are 3 children...and they will all be in pushchairs (even though only one really needs one). The reptile hobby (and partiulaly expo's) are in serious trouble, without adding unneccesay pressure to them yourselves though mindlessness and discrimination...think on please people.


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## carlo69

TheDogMan said:


> The argument has got ridiculously boring...


i agree we should end this but why is it boring:2thumb:


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