# dog prices differ with colour!



## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

hi well i presume everyone knows what a blue staffordshire bull terrier is and well how expensive they actually are compared to the rest of the colours eg. brindle, red,white. Well i know most people don't agree with the price just for a colour so i was just wondering what all your views are on the different prices for different colours.

i personally love blue staffordshire bull terriers however they are way to expensive, i would rather pay more money for temperment differences rather then colour.

so get posting


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## CWD (Feb 11, 2007)

well i payed £200 for my girl from a mate with full papers !!

here she is


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

CWD said:


> well i payed £200 for my girl from a mate with full papers !!
> 
> here she is
> image




wow what a bargain with papers aswell!!! i would love them ...beautiful girl btw


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## CWD (Feb 11, 2007)

sumair24 said:


> wow what a bargain with papers aswell!!! i would love them ...beautiful girl btw





TY she has 14 champions in her bloodline as well !!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Some people charge more for blues as they think they can get away with calling them rare (they're not rare but anything to make a buck or two). 

You see the same in other fancies too, some unscrupulous breeders charging different amounts for different varieties when none of them are rare, they crop up in the same litters and cost the same to raise. I think personally it's just done to pick up the idiots who would believe they're worth more. :lol2:


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

KathyM said:


> Some people charge more for blues as they think they can get away with calling them rare (they're not rare but anything to make a buck or two).
> 
> You see the same in other fancies too, some unscrupulous breeders charging different amounts for different varieties when none of them are rare, they crop up in the same litters and cost the same to raise. I think personally it's just done to pick up the idiots who would believe they're worth more. :lol2:



lol so true..blue are just diluted versions of black staffs im pretty sure? thats what i read up however they attract far more attention and a far bigger price tag


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

That's because there's plenty of retarded chavs who will believe it. It makes you wonder about the breeder though if they're happy for dogs to go to homes that don't know that about the breed they chose.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

IMHO, when chosing/breeding a dog should be the last consideration.

Whats far more important is the health ( and health testing ) of the sire and dam ( and preferably health certs going back at least 4 generations ), the temperment of the sire and dam, and the ability of the "breeder" to raise the pup adeqautely.

If you have found "the perfect litter" and the pups are of equal merit, then yes colour could sway things. but not before IMO


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

Decent breeders do not charge more for a dog depending on it's colour, all the puppies in the litter cost the same to raise.

I do not know of many blue staffies that do not come from puppy farm/ 100% pet to pet lines which of course go hand in hand with lack of health testing back over the generations and sadly also often dubious temperament.

Beautiful dogs if nicely bred with matching beautiful temperaments, not for me though, especially when rescue is overflowing 

If I saw a breeder was selling pups at different prices - bitches more than dogs or purples more than blacks ... I would walk away fast!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

I disagree with different colours being more, but I would be perfectly happy to pay different prices for different lines (ie. I would pay much more for a terrier from Saxons then from Keogh Terriers) same breed or not. If somebody was asking more or less depending on colour/pattern I wouldn't bother, but I wouldn't mind paying more for a bitch then a dog.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

most breeders charge different prices for dogs and bitches thats standard practice what I have seen.

I know a lot of Labrador breeders charge more for Yellow and choc than blacks, I dont if I have a mixed colour litter they get sold at the same prices.


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## tilly790 (Jan 24, 2008)

I saw an ad a while ago for rare white G.S.Ds my friend who used to breed G.S.Ds said at one time they were a throw back & were given away, i dont think you can show them either. Soon the dog pounds will be full of blue staffs as everyone & his dog will be breeding them.


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## Sirvincent (Jul 16, 2008)

surely it's the same for corns or royals? you pay far more for a pied royal than you would for a pastel........ the only thing that's different is the colour


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I agree that colour wouldn't be first on my list. Health and temperament are far, far more important. 

If a colour genuinely is a rarer colour then I don't have a problem with it. But as has been said, that's often not actually the case. The seller bumps up the price to imply that, and some numpty falls for it. That's just supply and demand I'm afraid. If people will pay it, then some breeders will charge it!

I've never bought a pup, only rescued, so I can't really say for dogs, but I know for poultry I would expect to pay significantly more for some colours. But I also know I've seen really, really poor examples at auctions and they've still fetched silly prices!


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Sirvincent said:


> surely it's the same for corns or royals? you pay far more for a pied royal than you would for a pastel........ the only thing that's different is the colour


I think thats a tad different, because in a lot of cases when it comes to reptiles and inverts, it is actually harder to get certain colours and people do work hard to get them, also people collect reptiles and inverts...people do not or should not collect dogs.

I wouldn't call owning a dog a hobby like i would with herps....


Now for my reply to this thread...
what i don't get is, seeing animals priced up for sexes, females costing more than males because they can be bred from!
Usually see this in petshops with rodents and rabbits, but commonly seen at shows too, with snakes and lizards.

Ok it makes sense when it comes to spiders i won't argue, females live like 20 times longer than males, it makes sense to pay £50 for a spider that may live 25 years, than for the same species but different sex that is only going to live 6-12months tops...so i've not a problem with that!


Maybe someone can enlighten me though when it comes to mammals and reps, but personally what.is.the.point?!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Well I can only speak from a rat breeding perspective but I breed certain varieties of rats, one is considered to be one of the rarest in the country (for now) and I don't charge differently for colour or ear setting or coat type as many others do. They all cost the same to raise so there is absolutely no need. Yes some of my varieties are hard to "make", but I'm breeding for myself not for the cash I can get so they all are sold for exactly the same price.


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

I dont really mind what they charge if i fall in love with the pup i will buy it! maybe im just stupid, i couldnt say no to a pup from a litter because its £100 more, and i would pay more for MY desired colour, or sex. : victory:

Blue staffs are gorgeous by the way :flrt:


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

sumair24 said:


> hi well i presume everyone knows what a blue staffordshire bull terrier is and well how expensive they actually are compared to the rest of the colours eg. brindle, red,white. Well i know most people don't agree with the price just for a colour so i was just wondering what all your views are on the different prices for different colours.
> 
> i personally love blue staffordshire bull terriers however they are way to expensive, i would rather pay more money for temperment differences rather then colour.
> 
> so get posting


dissagreed blue staffies with all blue lines will have better lines and defo less chance of inbreeding i looked this up and their are certain lines that do cost more...

my girl came from an all blue litter with all blue KC lines and there are more desirable dogs to have in the lines making the pup more expencive EG my girl has a 'famous' or more disiarble boy in her and his KC name is johnson blue boy and he is very well bred with great health and a good breed example now when i took evi to be chipped jabbed and cheacked over wormed flead ect the vet said ''aye its nice to have an irish staff in again. i havnt seen one in a while!''

now looking this up my mum got worried that he was hinting evi was pit bull type even though the KC papers clearly show she is a blue staff and i spoke to a girl who knows her dogs and said theres no such breed as the 'irish staff' 

so IMO there is two sides to this thread disiarble or undisirable

(sorry for any spelling mistakes hehe  ))


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Any ethical, ecent dog breeder will charge the same for a dog or bitch in whatever colour, or 'show quality (potential show quality in a pup) or pet quality. Why?! All the pups in a litter cost the same to rear, and puppy pricing should heavily involve ethics. Ethical dog breeders feel that pricing is the way it is to cover the cost of rearing a litter properly, and so that prices are high enough to make sure most people have to give fairly serious consideration to what they are buying. 

You will not see many blue Staffs int he show ring. Their blue colouring means they can lack skin pigment, and so aren't usually oustanding examples of the breed, even if everything else is great. There are very, very few blues who have done well in the ring. 

I have no idea why anyone would think it is OK to pay more for a bitch than a dog? Especially in breed's like mine where dogs are usually thought to look far more magnificent.


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

ive been researching and alot of people say no proper breeder should do this however i can understand that once a person sells the blues for alot more and makes money then so will the others its the way it works i guess its not ethical its just all about money.

Blues are highly sought after nowadays and so are dogs who generally are good looking however when you sell a blue for say £700 from a litter of other colours that you sell for £300 thats not right.

all in all i can understand now why the breeders do this its just simply they know they will make more money, but to say the blue is a rare colour is wrong as they are not


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> dissagreed blue staffies with all blue lines will have better lines and defo less chance of inbreeding i looked this up and their are certain lines that do cost more...
> 
> my girl came from an all blue litter with all blue KC lines and there are more desirable dogs to have in the lines making the pup more expencive EG my girl has a 'famous' or more disiarble boy in her and his KC name is johnson blue boy and he is very well bred with great health and a good breed example now when i took evi to be chipped jabbed and cheacked over wormed flead ect the vet said ''aye its nice to have an irish staff in again. i havnt seen one in a while!''
> 
> ...



i dont get what your disagreeing there

also is an irish staff not considered a breed? sorry i didnt know however i am looking to get a staffy..( i have an akita)


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

sumair24 said:


> ive been researching and alot of people say no proper breeder should do this however i can understand that once a person sells the blues for alot more and makes money then so will the others its the way it works i guess its not ethical its just all about money.
> 
> Blues are highly sought after nowadays and so are dogs who generally are good looking however when you sell a blue for say £700 from a litter of other colours that you sell for £300 thats not right.
> 
> all in all i can understand now why the breeders do this its just simply they know they will make more money, but to say the blue is a rare colour is wrong as they are not


 
The point is, you won't find many decent breeders even producing blue staffs, let alone charging a £400 price difference.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

sumair24 said:


> ive been researching and alot of people say no proper breeder should do this however i can understand that once a person sells the blues for alot more and makes money then so will the others its the way it works i guess its not ethical its just all about money.
> 
> Blues are highly sought after nowadays and so are dogs who generally are good looking however when you sell a blue for say £700 from a litter of other colours that you sell for £300 thats not right.
> 
> all in all i can understand now why the breeders do this its just simply they know they will make more money, but ty the blue is a rare colour is wrong as they are not


you ring some of the dog breeders registered on the kennle club breeder advertisment bit and the bitches will be more than dogs, even accredited breeders will charge more, doesn't make them a bad breeder because they charge £50 more for a bitch


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

bosshogg said:


> you ring some of the dog breeders registered on the kennle club breeder advertisment bit and the bitches will be more than dogs, even accredited breeders will charge more, doesn't make them a bad breeder because they charge £50 more for a bitch


 
And anyone 'in the know' knows that the accredited breeder scheme has a lot of improvements to make, and it is full of BYB's and puppy farmers, some of whom do not even health test. 

I know a lot of good breeders, and _know of_ a lot more, and not one of them charges more for bitches than dogs. 

breeding dogs shoul dnot be ablout money, and unless it is, there is no reason to charge £50 more for a bitch than a dog. Why on earth would bitches be worth more?


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

bosshogg said:


> you ring some of the dog breeders registered on the kennle club breeder advertisment bit and the bitches will be more than dogs, even accredited breeders will charge more, doesn't make them a bad breeder because they charge £50 more for a bitch


i no it doesnt i didnt say it did make them bad breeders infact i said i understand they do it just for more money which i didnt say was a bad label on them or whatever


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

this is exactly why i put this up i wanted to see everyones opinions on it some think its fair for bitches to be higher priced some dont..i personally dont really see much of a difference however the breeder is obviously thinking the customer will try breeding and make money

threads coming along nicely..i hope it stays that way


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I dont believe in breeding anything for profit. So charging more for an animal that's cost the same to feed/raise/treat at the vets IMO is irresponsible breeding and that kind of breeder is best avoided.


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## cubeykc (Aug 8, 2008)

blue staffies are stunning and if i had the money i would quite easy go out and pay £800 for one i like and what is £800 for a dog these days after all you paying for a friend for life if it lives for 12 years that works out at about £66 a year its like saying why do you pay more for a blizzard corn then a amel?

a dog is a investment they bring you so much love and joy for such a small price what more do you want?


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## ownedbyroxy (Jan 27, 2009)

When we went to search for a border collie easter time we came across a 'breeder' who had prices ranging from £150 - £750. 
His 'basic' pups (his words not mine) were black and white boys atarting at £150 and black and white bitches at £175. He had merles / blues etc all stunning, but with price tags of £500-£750 depending on colours / markings / eye colour / sex and wherther they were big / small. he said if they had been registered he'd of gotten an extra few hundred on top. I asked if in the circumstance of IF we needed to rehome - he said try preloved or EPupz, i asked if we could call him, he said office hours, not weekends or holidays.

Needless to say we walked. 

We then found the chap who bred Fly. Real straightfoward chap he were. His B&W pups, male or female were £150 a piece. He had another litter at the same time, (with pups similar to Amalthea's). we were very very tempted to have one, He charged £250 for them no matter what size / sex / etc. We were very very tempted to have one of rthese, but a little B&W runt bitch escaped from the puppy pen and showered my 3 yr old with kisses. So home came Fly! We havn't taken him up on it yet - but we have backup for life.


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

cubeykc said:


> blue staffies are stunning and if i had the money i would quite easy go out and pay £800 for one i like and what is £800 for a dog these days after all you paying for a friend for life if it lives for 12 years that works out at about £66 a year its like saying why do you pay more for a blizzard corn then a amel?
> 
> a dog is a investment they bring you so much love and joy for such a small price what more do you want?



i would more then happily pay £800 for a dog i did so with an akita however its the fact that the colour is highly priced even when there is a mixed litter of puppies

i understand your comment about the dog being a joy i love my dog too bits im just trying to find everyones views as i wouldnt mind paying that much for a blue staff it just seems unfair they are more then double standard colours


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My friend breeds GSD and her pups are the same price regardless of sex. I really dont see why bitches should cost anymore tbh as a good breeder will put an endorsement on the registration of pet puppies regardless of sex


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I wonder why people are so chuffed they got papers with a dog and say 'yeah he has 899 champions in his bloodline' and 'yeah his grandfather was crufts champion in 1983'.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Because if a pup comes with KC papers, at least you know she's not been bred from at every season, and that they are from pedigree lines.

I'm not saying I agree with paying more because of that - and I'm not saying that KC registered means a good breeder (far from it - there's good and bad, you have to research your breeders as much as you would your chosen dog breed). But if someone is selling pedigrees without papers, or with "Dog Lovers" papers, you can almost always guarantee they are a backyard breeder who wont have done relevent health tests and may be breeding from their bitch irresponsibly.

If you dont want papers - go to a rescue. Dont give money to people breeding for no other reason than profit.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think it's because nowadays there are so many people who don't even bother trying to breed to a proper standard and who don't register the pups. There are even a few that make up their own dog clubs so as not to have to restrict their breeding practices to conform with any standard and to churn out pups at every season. 

The vast majority of staffies are bred badly, often crossbred with other unregistered dogs and of varying sizes, and bred with no thought at all for their health and temperament. It is these breeders who label them as "irish staffs" and sell blues for twice as much, and it is these breeders that give good staffie breeders a bad name. If people want to pay through the nose for a substandard dog they're idiots frankly, as they're ten a penny in rescues throughout the country. I wouldn't pay a penny to someone who doesn't register their dogs or work towards a standard in health, temperament and conformity stakes AND doing ALL relevant health tests. Anyone else is just doing it for the cash, "rare" colours or not they'll end up with health problems and crap personalities. Whoever pays more than £50 for those types of puppies is retarded lol.


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## CWD (Feb 11, 2007)

Andy said:


> I wonder why people are so chuffed they got papers with a dog and say 'yeah he has 899 champions in his bloodline' and 'yeah his grandfather was crufts champion in 1983'.





whos said that well i tell ya 1 thing mate i bought a staffy off a forum member on here with no papers and she turned out to be a staff cross i got ROBBED !!! allways better to by a dog with papers


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

CWD said:


> whos said that well i tell ya 1 thing mate i bought a staffy off a forum member on here with no papers and she turned out to be a staff cross i got ROBBED !!! allways better to by a dog with papers


 
papers can still be forged!


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## CWD (Feb 11, 2007)

Kerriebaby said:


> papers can still be forged!




true yes but when you ring up with the numbers of the sire and dam there not LOL !!!!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

sumair24 said:


> i no it doesnt i didnt say it did make them bad breeders infact i said i understand they do it just for more money which i didnt say was a bad label on them or whatever


Any dog breeder who is doing it for money, or has money as any sort of motivation is doing it for the wrong reasons, IMO. There are such a huge number of dogs in rescues and being PTS every year, anyone breeding dogs should only do so witht he best of reasons, and money isn't anything to do with that. 



Andy said:


> I wonder why people are so chuffed they got papers with a dog and say 'yeah he has 899 champions in his bloodline' and 'yeah his grandfather was crufts champion in 1983'.


Actually, I would only ever buy a KC registered dog, but I don't get that either. 

A dog can have as many champions as youlike in it's pedigree, it still might be a dreadful example of the breed. Not very pup in every litter would a champion make. My youngest is of exceptional breeding. She's nice enough, done pretty well in the ring. Just missed out on qualifying for Crufts herself a few times, which in such a prolific breed is pretty good going. However, she's not perfect, and I won't be breeding from her, because I don't think she's good enough. She's prone to being nervous for one, which for a Golden is a real big no no. IMO. 

I think it's just like everything else. Certain people want to think that what they buy is the best of the best, better than what someone else has got....


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

i personally think alot of people foolishly get into breeding to quickly just for money however i dont fully agree with what you said as a responsible person can breed good healthy dogs and make a profit and this will erge him to continue alot of good breeders actually breed for money its only recently that lots and lots of backdoor breeders who own pets just breed for the sake to turn over a few pounds


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> dissagreed blue staffies with all blue lines will have better lines and defo less chance of inbreeding i looked this up and their are certain lines that do cost more...
> 
> my girl came from an all blue litter with all blue KC lines and there are more desirable dogs to have in the lines making the pup more expencive EG my girl has a 'famous' or more disiarble boy in her and his KC name is johnson blue boy and he is very well bred with great health and a good breed example


What do you class as better lines though? Since Staffies are no longer used for working - do you mean top show lines? Multiple Champions? Champions in dog pedigrees are generally pretty irrelevant unless it is the parents of the pup ....
Just wondering how people qualify great lines when we are talking about pet only dogs? Unless you are talking about sports - weight pull etc?????

Your blue girl is totally adorable


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

sumair24 said:


> i personally think alot of people foolishly get into breeding to quickly just for money however i dont fully agree with what you said as a responsible person can breed good healthy dogs and make a profit and this will erge him to continue alot of good breeders actually breed for money its only recently that lots and lots of backdoor breeders who own pets just breed for the sake to turn over a few pounds


I absolutely disgaree. No good breeder breeds for money. They might make a profit on an individual litter, but that money, plus much more, will go into the costs of showing their dogs, and health testing dogs they never breed from. Plus the cost of actually keeping a bitch for life that they will maybe only have a litter or two from.

It costs me on average £100-£150 to go to a show with one dog. if you take into account that some people are showing more than one dog, two or three times a month, and may well have to travel the length of the country to do so, they aren't making any money by having a litter every two or three years.

Good breeders will continue because they have the right motivation, the welfare of the breed as a whole.


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## deerhound (Jul 19, 2009)

I dont see the point in having pedigree papers for house pets. Why would you need them ?. It would help if breeders didnt issue them for pets. But then again they are very easy to forge. Who has actually phoned the kennel club to verify thiers ?. 
I think that all colours should cost the same price especially with Staffs as there are so many of them around. 
Always look at the mother of any puppies that you are looking at buying. If she looks like she has had many litters then walk away. 
Heres a pic of my dog.
Reptile Forums UK - deerhound's Album: Flynn - Picture


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

deerhound said:


> I dont see the point in having pedigree papers for house pets. Why would you need them ?. It would help if breeders didnt issue them for pets.


In what way would it help? (Not arguing just unsure of the reasoning )


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

midori said:


> Actually, I would only ever buy a KC registered dog, but I don't get that either.
> 
> A dog can have as many champions as youlike in it's pedigree, it still might be a dreadful example of the breed. Not very pup in every litter would a champion make..


I think you are the only person who got what I meant lol.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Staffy with papers









Staffy without









I love them both the same though!


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

Andy said:


> Staffy with papers
> image
> 
> Staffy without
> ...



beautiful dogs
papers would only matter to me if i wanted to breed properly or show dogs however never would i care for papers.... unless i was unsure of the dogs heritage and iffy breeders other then that my dog just needs a good temperment and im all good


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

just a quick question too

how much do average staffies with papers cost roughly?
or if you dont mind saying how much you payed

thanks


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Give me a mutt anyday :lol2:

I'm sure most people watched the program on the KC club.

In my mind the papers arent worth shite.


As for Staffies and there colouring. You can get every shape and colour Staffie in rescue, so why people want to buy them is beyond me. You could adopt one, neutered, vaxed and chipped for a little as £75.

And if we are mainly talking about Staffies I am totally against people buying them and breeding them in this climate. if people stopped buying them people would have to rethink breeding them. And then maybe so many of them wouldnt end up dead in pounds.


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## deerhound (Jul 19, 2009)

I had my dog much cheaper because i didnt want the papers with him. He is a family pet so i dont need them. I saw both parents so saw that they where of excelent standard with no health problems. Thats the most important . I see dogs everyday which the owners brag about having papers and to be honest the dogs dont even look like what breed its suppose to look like. They pay hundreds of pounds for them too:whip:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It shouldn't be about the money though - people shouldn't go to a rescue because they want to save some cash, they should go to a rescue because they want to offer a dog a home.

It frankly turns my stomach seeing people recommend rescues in order to save some money. It's not what it's about. A person would be privileged to be chosen to adopt, they would be grateful that the rescue chose them as the best home for the dog. It should never be about saving money compared to a pedigree dog.

Edited to add - I was replying to marthaMoo. No person trying to save money should buy a dog full stop. They should buy a stuffed toy. Vets bills alone are many many times more costly than any adoption fee, if people chose a rescue because they didnt want to pay hundreds, I would hope the rescue would tell them where to go.


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> It shouldn't be about the money though - people shouldn't go to a rescue because they want to save some cash, they should go to a rescue because they want to offer a dog a home.
> 
> It frankly turns my stomach seeing people recommend rescues in order to save some money. It's not what it's about. A person would be privileged to be chosen to adopt, they would be grateful that the rescue chose them as the best home for the dog. It should never be about saving money compared to a pedigree dog.
> 
> Edited to add - I was replying to marthaMoo. No person trying to save money should buy a dog full stop. They should buy a stuffed toy. Vets bills alone are many many times more costly than any adoption fee, if people chose a rescue because they didnt want to pay hundreds, I would hope the rescue would tell them where to go.



the last bit was well said i personally under estimated the cost of owning a dog...naive mistake it costs alot of money although i didnt get him a huge dong run but none the less owning a dog is not an easy venture to come in to


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> Give me a mutt anyday :lol2:
> 
> *I'm sure most people watched the program on the KC club.*
> 
> ...


What the same programme that picked and chose facts and brought a huge surge of BYB's and puppy farmers able to sell their pups eaily because they advertised them as 'not KC registered' and 'we DO NOT show our dogs'..... 

That did the dog world a whole lot of good..... :censor:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

TBH I would never buy a dog. KC reg, Puppy farmed, BYB, bloke on the corner who had an accidental litter.

Every corner you turn there are people in it for the money and not in it for the dogs. And its very difficult to tell them apart.

I have worked in kennels that are very well known for breeding a certain breed, and they do breed rescue. And never have I seen such vileness. Puppies were left to die because they werent worth the vet bill. A man came round at night when I wasnt there and put bands on the puppies tails to dock them. Rescue dogs were bred from and the pups were registered to a KC bitch who had also had pups at the same time. White pups were removed from the litters when people came to view the pups. I could go on... And this person is thought of very highly in the dog world.

I would never have to buy a dog anyway as you can get vertually any breed you want from rescue. Either here or from Ireland.

If people are seriously stupid enough to buy puppies from puppy farms because of there "need" for a certain dog thats there problem. That pups life will usually be full of allot of sadness and health problems.
People know where these puppies are from, they know how the adults are kept, but they dont care. They just want that breed. And untill people stop thinking like that nothing will change.


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## Dizz (Mar 29, 2009)

Because so many people breed for money.

Simple as.

And they list dogs are "rare colours" to sucker in the numpties who do no research before buying a dog.

Rare usually = non-standard.

Now, I'm not with the KC on a lot of standards, but the dogs should not cost anymore to buy.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> TBH I would never buy a dog. KC reg, Puppy farmed, BYB, bloke on the corner who had an accidental litter.
> 
> Every corner you turn there are people in it for the money and not in it for the dogs. And its very difficult to tell them apart.
> 
> ...


The fact is, people do not know how or where to look for a dog. They do not know how to tell a good breeder from a bad one. Most people think, for example, that if abreeder owns the stud dog an dthe bitch, that is a good thing. They do not understand about health testing, or think that a Crufts Champ. Great Grandad means they are buying a quality, well bred puppy. if we can educate people on how to find a well, properly bred puppy, that would go a long way to help the situation. However, the government see dog breeding as a legitimate business, and as long as they do, there is no stopping puppy farmers or BYB's. 

Instead of a ridiculous programme like PDE, Ms. Harrisson would have been better eploying her time making a programme which explained to people how to find a properly bred puppy, or at least included a section about that in her programme, which was heavily biased. 

The fact is, there are good and bad everywhere, but most breeders who show do so for the love of their dogs and the breed. KC registration may not be an absolute guarantee, but I do guarantee that you won't find any breeder of a KC recognised breed who doesn't KC register and is responsible or breeding 'properly'.


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## constrictor24 (Jan 21, 2009)

midori said:


> The fact is, people do not know how or where to look for a dog. They do not know how to tell a good breeder from a bad one. Most people think, for example, that if abreeder owns the stud dog an dthe bitch, that is a good thing. They do not understand about health testing, or think that a Crufts Champ. Great Grandad means they are buying a quality, well bred puppy. if we can educate people on how to find a well, properly bred puppy, that would go a long way to help the situation. However, the government see dog breeding as a legitimate business, and as long as they do, there is no stopping puppy farmers or BYB's.
> 
> Instead of a ridiculous programme like PDE, Ms. Harrisson would have been better eploying her time making a programme which explained to people how to find a properly bred puppy, or at least included a section about that in her programme, which was heavily biased.
> 
> The fact is, there are good and bad everywhere, but most breeders who show do so for the love of their dogs and the breed. KC registration may not be an absolute guarantee, but I do guarantee that you won't find any breeder of a KC recognised breed who doesn't KC register and is responsible or breeding 'properly'.



great post i for one would like to know facts on where to look for good and bad pups and just general good information maybe someone can start giving that out even on this thread or anyone willing to help


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Go to the breed club and other owners for recommendations for breeders. Dont automatically pick the nearest person, or the first one you visit. Look up what health tests are required for a certain breed, and ask whether they've been done. And dont be afraid to walk away - just because you've visited or been in touch with a breeder doesn't mean you have to go through with it.

And dont automatically choose the cheapest. IMO I'd avoid the free ads breeders as really good breeders generally dont need to advertise as they have waiting lists.

Dont be put off waiting either, I'd much rather wait for a well bred healthy pup than get one sooner that hadn't been raised properly or its parents health tested.

And most importantly of all IMO - dont rule out rescues. Contrary to popular belief and what BYBs will tell you, pedigree dogs are very common in rescue, and there are breed specific rescues too. And if you really aren't fussed on a specific breed, dont forget there's many similar crossbreeds in rescues needing homes too.


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

this could be different if we were talking bulldogs being a high price or french, neopolitan, english mastiff all mastiff yet all different prices IMO you choose the dog not the price...

skunks. more for spotted than B&W so there are many moree like mice rats cats ect

so it depends what you want,

cross breeds can have better health than a KC Reg dog so who knows what the world of money is like my DDB's breeder said the credit crunch has affected his prices as he breeds DDB bulldogs and chows so....


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> this could be different if we were talking bulldogs being a high price or french, neopolitan, english mastiff all mastiff yet all different prices IMO you choose the dog not the price...
> 
> skunks. more for spotted than B&W so there are many moree like mice rats cats ect
> 
> ...


So, instead of lowering his prices, why not simply stop breeding? 

I would rather keep a pup than lower the price, and that has nothing to do with money. It is due to the fact that I don't want someone buying a puppy from me because they see it as a bargain. That said, I have a waiting list anyway, and always have done, plus only breed rarely, so am unlikely to ever find myself in that situation.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

> skunks. more for spotted than B&W so there are many moree like mice rats cats ect


IMO regardless of species, charging more for a specific coat/colour/ear shape is the sign of an irresponsible breeder who is breeding purely for profit.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> now looking this up my mum got worried that he was hinting evi was pit bull type even though the KC papers clearly show she is a blue staff and i spoke to a girl who knows her dogs and said theres no such breed as the 'irish staff'


There is such a breed as the Irish staff(Irish bull terrier).

Irish staff's that IMO should be called Irish bull terrier.Has NO! APBT blood.Irish bull terriers have the blood of a bull terrier breed called the Blue paul terrier running through there vains that Staffordshire bull terriers & English bull terriers don't have.Blue paul terier was created in Ireland around the time of Staffordshire bull terriers & English bull terrers was being deveoped in the UK.The Blue paul terrier is a extincted breed.What's left is the Irish bull terrier the thing that makes a Irish bull terrier differant than a Staffordshire bull terrier or English bull terrier is Irish bull terrier have the blood of the Kerry blue terrier ofcourse not exsticted.Kerry blue terrier was use in the creation of the Blue paul terrier.Which then got involed in the creation of the Irish bull terrier which faded the Blue paul terrier out to extinction.The most common color for Irish bull terriers ws *BLUE* which is why the vet maybe added 1+1 a came up with 4(Irish bull terrier) rather than blue staffordshire bull terrier.

*Blue paul terrier(Extinted breed).*
*







*

*Irish bull terrier(Irish staff).Longer legs/body/tail & muzzle.*
*







*


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

It's not a _recognised_ breed, and the name is abused by some undescribables to cover for their pits and pit crosses.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> It's not a _recognised_ breed, and the name is abused by some undescribables to cover for their pits and pit crosses.


Just coz it dosen't have a piece of paper with KC on it.That dosn't mean they don't exsist.A Irish bull terrier history is just as long as the Staffordshire bull terrier and English bull terrier.They are not a new made up breed.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I dont think the KC recognise Jack Russels either.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

gazz said:


> Just coz it dosen't have a piece of paper with KC on it.That dosn't mean they don't exsist.A Irish bull terrier history is just as long as the Staffordshire bull terrier and English bull terrier.They are not a new made up breed.


I believe you, but their name is given to illegal dogs here. I would imagine 99.9% of dogs named as "irish staffs" over here are not the dogs you describe!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Andy said:


> I dont think the KC recognise Jack Russels either.


I thought the KC recognised them as "properly" bred Parson Russell terriers?


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## deerhound (Jul 19, 2009)

Yes the Parson Russell Terrier is a kc recognised breed. Its a variant of the Fox Terrier.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

gazz said:


> Just coz it dosen't have a piece of paper with KC on it.That dosn't mean they don't exsist.A Irish bull terrier history is just as long as the Staffordshire bull terrier and English bull terrier.They are not a new made up breed.


I never disagreed with you. Just, like someone else said, irish staff is a term used very commonly by people trying to evade the law :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Just because they've used a "genuine" breed to rename them as doesn't mean people dont do it. They could call them poodles and they'd still be pits!


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