# Sticky  RAW feeding Cats! - Possible Sticky?



## freekygeeky

Now this question gets asked ALL the time on here. So I thought it was about time someone made a possible sticky? 

These questions get asked near enough daily on here...

Do you feed RAW to your cats? Have you ever thought about feeding RAW? Where is the best place to buy RAW diet? Why feed RAW? How can I change my cats to RAW? Can my cat eat RAW? etc..

I thought i'd let you know what I do, how I do it, where I get my diet from etc.

---------------------------------------

I love cats, I've had cats all my life, I've fostered, and I currently own 6!

Ginger 25+, Luca 14, Zingi 6ish, Scooby and Tom 5ish, and Simba 4ish!

I started feeding RAW about 6 years ago, the price of commercial cat food kept rising, which meant i was having to buy the cheaper food. Cheaper food ended with smelly runny stools! Yuck! So I started to re search RAW/BARF etc. It was quite difficult to do, considering my vet was very anti!

After alot of trial and error, i now know what my cats like, will eat, and what keeps them healthy!

Alot of people are put off by not being able to bulk buy, due to only having a small freezer! Dont be put off, you can still do it cheaply, and fit it in your freezer. I only use one draw in mine!)

What I buy, Where I buy it (cheapest possible place!)
-Chicken wings (Value pack in the fridge area of Tescos/Morrisons, morrisons are more meaty!)
-Chicken legs (As above)
-Chicken thighs (As above)
-Turkey necks (Frozen, by a company called anglian meat products, found in local pet shops, PAH, or BULK buy)
-Turkey legs (Tesco have started to do value ones in the fridge area)
-White fish (Value Frozen from Tescos, Morrisons)
-Pilchards (Tinned from Tescos)
-Sardines (Tinned from Tescos)
-Eggs (VALUE bulk from tescos)
-Frozen minced packs (Anglian meat products again, these come in 400g and 500g packs, they do a value range, ask your local pet shop!)
--> these come in many flavours, beef, beef and tripe, white fish, chicken, chicken and tripe, tripe,turkey, rabbit etc.
-Hearts (now you can go to your butchers, but for me, and ease, i use MORRISONS packs, alreday chopped, cheap as chips etc)
-Livers (again as above)
- Kidneys (again as above)
-Salmon Oil tablets (from health shops in bulk)
-Taurine (off the internet, however with the offeal they are getting some anyway)
- day old chicks (once a year ish! - when i get to a reptile shop!)
- mice (i used to breed them, i dont anymore though)

Oh and most importantly - REDUCED ISLE!

Ive probably missed something, but thats all i can think of for now.

When i get home, i bag up the items in meal sizes and freeze them.

Cats should get around 2-3% of their weight, I personally just play it by ear, if they get fat or thin change it!

I feed them minced frozen pack in the morning for ease (i have to go to work!) and then something more ''difficult'' in the evening.

I do hope this helps? Possible sticky?

Happy and Healthy eh?


----------



## SakuraPastel

ah. might have a look at this how much do you feed. I am going on my third cat and I feed a mixture of iams soft and hard which is the highest meat content I can find in the grocery store. One of my cats are very picky. Is all raw meat okay or only some?


----------



## Drayvan

I'm glad day old chicks are on there, got a freezer full and keep meaning to give one to Willow to make up for him never going to be able to go outside and hunt. Possibly going to get him onto a RAW diet so very interesting post :2thumb:


----------



## Kare

Excellent post.

I have been raw feeding my dogs for many years and am often asked for advice by people looking to feed their pets a natural diet. I am confident on feeding fully grown dogs on raw I have to admit I have never raised puppies on raw or ever had a raw fed cat and need to refer them to websites.

One I particularly like is this one What About Cats? especially worth reading for tips on how to maintain the taurine in what you are feeding.


----------



## Griffon

Delighted you did this. I want to do this so am going to start. I read on a different site that you need a grinder do you use one.


----------



## Embo

I started my two on RAW about 3 weeks ago and they are loving it. It has already made a change to their toilet habits! Not going as often as they were and stools are now firm, where they were soft and very smelly before.

They love chicken and hearts and will scoff it as soon as it's put down. They were eating kidney up until this weekend when they decided to go off it. Bad news for me as I had just been out to Morrisons and got a load! Including a massive Ox kidney!! They aren't too sure about liver, but will keep going back until finished.

Only thing with chicken is that they just wont shred it themselves, so I do have to chop this up (I actually use scissors as it's easier!) and only one of them has just started chomping on the bigger bones. 

I get heart & liver at Morrisons, last lot of chicken portions from Iceland, frozen fish fillets from Sainsburys. They also do packets of frozen chicken liver for 50p.

I spent £14 in Morrisons at the weekend, chopped everything up and froze it all in meal-size portions. I now have enough to last for about 30 days (this is now less as they will no longer eat kidney!!)

Heading to my nearest petshop at the weekend to see if they sell the frozen meat packs. 

I just wish they were allowed raw pork as it's so much cheaper than anything else lol.


----------



## freekygeeky

I'm so glad it's been of use. I'm rubbish at writing so I've been putting it off. ! 

I must add that this is what I do, so more things could be added. I also have tried whole rabbits, but they just tossed it around the garden!! I didn't have the heart to chop it up so was wasted. 

Also, it's helped with weight issues ( too fat / to thin cats ) in my household. It's also helped with urine problems, also poo, and coat condition, oh and teeth - or lack of! 

With the younger cats they so the chopping biting themselves. Te older cats can't quite manage to do so. So I chop there up. 



Drayvan said:


> I'm glad day old chicks are on there, got a freezer full and keep meaning to give one to Willow to make up for him never going to be able to go outside and hunt. Possibly going to get him onto a RAW diet so very interesting post :2thumb:


They love them! They make a right mess though. Watch out!



Kare said:


> Excellent post.
> 
> I have been raw feeding my dogs for many years and am often asked for advice by people looking to feed their pets a natural diet. I am confident on feeding fully grown dogs on raw I have to admit I have never raised puppies on raw or ever had a raw fed cat and need to refer them to websites.
> 
> One I particularly like is this one What About Cats? especially worth reading for tips on how to maintain the taurine in what you are feeding.


That is a good site 



Griffon said:


> Delighted you did this. I want to do this so am going to start. I read on a different site that you need a grinder do you use one.


No they have teeth! Claws! And paws!



Embo said:


> I started my two on RAW about 3 weeks ago and they are loving it. It has already made a change to their toilet habits! Not going as often as they were and stools are now firm, where they were soft and very smelly before.
> 
> They love chicken and hearts and will scoff it as soon as it's put down. They were eating kidney up until this weekend when they decided to go off it. Bad news for me as I had just been out to Morrisons and got a load! Including a massive Ox kidney!! They aren't too sure about liver, but will keep going back until finished.
> 
> Only thing with chicken is that they just wont shred it themselves, so I do have to chop this up (I actually use scissors as it's easier!) and only one of them has just started chomping on the bigger bones.
> 
> I get heart & liver at Morrisons, last lot of chicken portions from Iceland, frozen fish fillets from Sainsburys. They also do packets of frozen chicken liver for 50p.
> 
> I spent £14 in Morrisons at the weekend, chopped everything up and froze it all in meal-size portions. I now have enough to last for about 30 days (this is now less as they will no longer eat kidney!!)
> 
> Heading to my nearest petshop at the weekend to see if they sell the frozen meat packs.
> 
> I just wish they were allowed raw pork as it's so much cheaper than anything else lol.


Hehe, mine aren't too keen on liver either. How odd. !!


----------



## Embo

Embo said:


> I just wish they were allowed raw pork as it's so much cheaper than anything else lol.


I just read on the 'what about cats?' website that they can have raw pork? I've read that they mustn't have it...

Can they have pork or not??

Confused.com


----------



## Kare

Embo said:


> I just read on the 'what about cats?' website that they can have raw pork? I've read that they mustn't have it...
> 
> Can they have pork or not??
> 
> Confused.com


I know with dogs it is said pork is more likely to contain parasites, not sure if there is the same reasoning in cats.

You can either accept that and not feed it, decide to feed it and freeze it first to kill off parasites, or just feed it and rest assured any worming treatment you currently use (either chemical or natural) with sort that issue.

Also there is the risk people do not know the difference between pork (natural) and gammon/bacon (massive amount of salt added) So maybe they are just catering for the lowest common denominator? (ie the thick people :lol2


----------



## SakuraPastel

yeah what about pork are cats prone to trichinosis like we are with raw pork?


----------



## freekygeeky

Everything I feed my cats gets frozen first. Regards to pork I only feed pig hearts.


----------



## freekygeeky

SakuraPastel said:


> ah. might have a look at this how much do you feed. I am going on my third cat and I feed a mixture of iams soft and hard which is the highest meat content I can find in the grocery store. One of my cats are very picky. Is all raw meat okay or only some?


Whoops, missed this one! 

Your supposed to feed 2-3% of their body weight. But just play it by ear. See how they are doing do they seem hungry? Overweight? Etc

My 400 gram minced food for the morning does 4-5 cats for example.

Also, get rid of that iams food! They test on cats and dogs...massively cruel. Eek!
Also, is all raw meat ok? Look at my list above, and use them  they are all fine.


----------



## Salamanda

Very useful sticky! Thank you! I've tried mine on chicken legs in the past and they loved it! I think next weeks shopping list is going to have a few new additions made to it :whistling2:


----------



## freekygeeky

Salamanda said:


> Very useful sticky! Thank you! I've tried mine on chicken legs in the past and they loved it! I think next weeks shopping list is going to have a few new additions made to it :whistling2:


I'd just go for it  poos will be stinky or too hard to begin with but that soon changes.


----------



## freekygeeky

anyone else trying it?


----------



## Whosthedaddy

freekygeeky said:


> anyone else trying it?


No, not got a cat yet...

:whistling2:

I would be though should that time arise


----------



## Griffon

Ya I started about 2 weeks ago. I'm doing it gradually though. I got them off the kipple and onto tinned food which was not easy with Sugar. Leo will eat anything. I started adding raw to their tinned food and I am gradually reducing the tinned.
My only problem is bones. Sugar will not touch them. I have drizzled some of their tinned juices over the chicken wing but no she will not touch it. Leo is having a go, he would not eat the whole wing but is trying.
Any suggestions as to encourage Sugar to eat the bones?
Also I got added some beef mince and she was fine with it but last week she got sick .


----------



## RLS

Unless you buy your raw food, freshly fozen, its not a good idea and your vet is right. The meat has come for a slaughter house full of other dead animals, full of bacteria's, yes cats can handle these bacteria better due to there stronger stomach acids, but these toxins build up in the animals body over time. Unless you can get freshly killed and frozen meat, its a very bad idea.

I have spent alot of time researching into this, yes raw diets are "better" but the ones we can generally provide for them are not. I discussed this with my vet, over a few visits. It turns out, that, your not only risking your animals by feeding them these raw diets bought from supermarket shelves. You are also elavating your own risks as an owner. Scientific studies have shown that raw and undercooked protein can be sources of infection with Salmonella, Campylobacter, Clostridium, E. coli, Listeria monocytogenes, and enterotoxigenic Staphylococcus aureus. These pass throught your animal into there feces, onto there feet from the litter tray, and then to your whole house. Alot of supermarket meet, is not treated for pathogens, which is why people are recommend to cook there meats (especially chicken and pork) thoroughly, until "cooked through" the high temps kill off these bacteria and make it safe for us too eat. These same bacteria can also make your cats ill, they are just as susceptible as us, yet they cant tell u when they have stomach ache  

I am not saying do not feed raw, what i am saying is the source of your raw food, should be as fresh as possible, supermarket meat just does not cut it for a raw diet.

As for dogs, they are not wolves, they are not carnivores and should not be fed on a meat only diet, this will make them ill, reduce there bone density over time, arthritis and other problems can occur without the correct nutrition. Dogs are omnivorous! Raw diets for dogs should include plant material, of which suitable ones can be found with a quick google search. And yet again FRESH meat, not that store bought stuff


----------



## freekygeeky

1. I freeze mine
2. In 24 odd years I've not been effected by any of the stated below, common sense kicks in. I don't lick my fingers after touching fresh meat. 
3. Shop bought stuff is fine, flip me. If I can eat it. My cats can. 
4. Cats, we are talking about cats. 



RLS said:


> Unless you buy your raw food, freshly fozen, its not a good idea and your vet is right. The meat has come for a slaughter house full of other dead animals, full of bacteria's, yes cats can handle these bacteria better due to there stronger stomach acids, but these toxins build up in the animals body over time. Unless you can get freshly killed and frozen meat, its a very bad idea.
> 
> I have spent alot of time researching into this, yes raw diets are "better" but the ones we can generally provide for them are not. I discussed this with my vet, over a few visits. It turns out, that, your not only risking your animals by feeding them these raw diets bought from supermarket shelves. You are also elavating your own risks as an owner. Scientific studies have shown that raw and undercooked protein can be sources of infection with Salmonella, Campylobacter, Clostridium, E. coli, Listeria monocytogenes, and enterotoxigenic Staphylococcus aureus. These pass throught your animal into there feces, onto there feet from the litter tray, and then to your whole house. Alot of supermarket meet, is not treated for pathogens, which is why people are recommend to cook there meats (especially chicken and pork) thoroughly, until "cooked through" the high temps kill off these bacteria and make it safe for us too eat. These same bacteria can also make your cats ill, they are just as susceptible as us, yet they cant tell u when they have stomach ache
> 
> I am not saying do not feed raw, what i am saying is the source of your raw food, should be as fresh as possible, supermarket meat just does not cut it for a raw diet.
> 
> As for dogs, they are not wolves, they are not carnivores and should not be fed on a meat only diet, this will make them ill, reduce there bone density over time, arthritis and other problems can occur without the correct nutrition. Dogs are omnivorous! Raw diets for dogs should include plant material, of which suitable ones can be found with a quick google search. And yet again FRESH meat, not that store bought stuff


----------



## freekygeeky

Griffon said:


> Ya I started about 2 weeks ago. I'm doing it gradually though. I got them off the kipple and onto tinned food which was not easy with Sugar. Leo will eat anything. I started adding raw to their tinned food and I am gradually reducing the tinned.
> My only problem is bones. Sugar will not touch them. I have drizzled some of their tinned juices over the chicken wing but no she will not touch it. Leo is having a go, he would not eat the whole wing but is trying.
> Any suggestions as to encourage Sugar to eat the bones?
> Also I got added some beef mince and she was fine with it but last week she got sick .


Apparently feeding both kibble and raw can cause stomachs upsets as they both take various differebt times to break down in the gut, I did read that. That could be incorrect!! That's why I moved straight in to it. 

Bones, for me, I got then, and tore the meat so the meats exposed and bloody. Oh and warm too!!


----------



## Whosthedaddy

freekygeeky said:


> Apparently feeding both kibble and raw can cause stomachs upsets as they both take various differebt times to break down in the gut, I did read that. That could be incorrect!! That's why I moved straight in to it.
> 
> Bones, for me, I got then, and tore the meat so the meats exposed and bloody. Oh and warm too!!


Should be ok if fed at different times as meat and veg take different times to digest.


----------



## RLS

Yes because you eat your food cooked, bacteria is slowed by freezing not killed...... how long has your shop bought food gone without being frozen?

Do what you like, but don't be recommending people to do what YOU can not prove is safe. If you wouldn't lick your fingers after just touching it, why would you give it to your cat to eat in that state! Common sense, really? You missed out on that when you didn't take the advice of your vet!


----------



## Drayvan

RLS said:


> Yes because you eat your food cooked, bacteria is slowed by freezing not killed...... how long has your shop bought food gone without being frozen?
> 
> If you wouldn't lick your fingers after just touching it, why the hell would you give it to your cat! Do what you like, but don't be recommending people to do what YOU can not prove is safe. If you wouldn't lick your fingers after just touching it, why would you give it to your cat to eat in that state! Common sense, really? You missed out on that when you didn't take the advice of your vet!


To be honest, I wouldn't go and lick a dead rat or mouse...or any other raw carcass for that matter (I'd be even less inclined to lick my fingers after touching that mess we call 'commercial petfood') but multiple species of feline AND canine eat raw food 'in the wild' whats the difference? You don't see prides of Lions sitting around a camp fire cooking a zebra to kill the bacteria on an animal thats been rolling around in god knows what :roll: Raw food is not harmful to animals for god sake use a bit of common sense. Should we be cooking frozen rodents before offering them to snakes too? :lol:


----------



## freekygeeky

RLS said:


> Yes because you eat your food cooked, bacteria is slowed by freezing not killed...... how long has your shop bought food gone without being frozen?
> 
> Do what you like, but don't be recommending people to do what YOU can not prove is safe. If you wouldn't lick your fingers after just touching it, why would you give it to your cat to eat in that state! Common sense, really? You missed out on that when you didn't take the advice of your vet!


lol



Drayvan said:


> To be honest, I wouldn't go and lick a dead rat or mouse...or any other raw carcass for that matter (I'd be even less inclined to lick my fingers after touching that mess we call 'commercial petfood') but multiple species of feline AND canine eat raw food 'in the wild' whats the difference? You don't see prides of Lions sitting around a camp fire cooking a zebra to kill the bacteria on an animal thats been rolling around in god knows what :roll: Raw food is not harmful to animals for god sake use a bit of common sense. Should we be cooking frozen rodents before offering them to snakes too? :lol:


you don't cook your mice first ... o.m.g


----------



## RLS

Lions eat FRESH prey, they also live in dry environment where bacteria don't grow well and are more specialized then the domestic cats we find today. 

as for what cats find outdoors, yes they carry things too, your cat may come across a rotten corpse of a bird now and again, doesn't mean he will eat it. cats carry a lot of bad things, so do raw meat products, those found in the store are proven to carry more concentrated amounts of these bacteria then you would find in a fresh dead animal. 

But you obviously didnt read my previous post.... because if you did, i doubt you would have replied the way you have. This diet causes just as much of an issue with the owner as it does the cat. You may was your hands after handing the meat, but your cats don't? neither do they wash there paws after using their litter tray... Just search "toxoplasmosis" in google, have a read. Thats just one common problem with raw food, the more raw food the greater chance of picking this up over time. The odd bird from the back garden is a problem but concentrating this problem by adding more shop bought raw meat or any raw meat for that matter. This comes down to the health of the owners and not just the cats. ESPECIALLY pregnant women!

I wont be replying anymore on this thread because typically people don't know there facts and just think because they do in the wild..... well im sorry your cats are not lions, sorry to disappoint you... :S 

If you want to be responsible, AT LEAST make people aware of the dangers of this diet, that have been proven in studies.

I was trying to give you information, not tell you that you were wrong in doing so.


----------



## RLS

Also, would u think it a good idea for me to buy a chicken from asda and feed it to my Burmese python? Yea because thats what people do... :S sorry but people keep mentioning common sense.

Frozen Mice/rats/rabbits, are frozen as soon as they are killed. Bacteria doesn't get a chance to grow on these dead animals because they have been frozen right after being killed. You defrost them for a few hours, feed it to your snake. so your rat, while dead has spent maybe a few hours not frozen. Raw meat from the store however. Gets killed, stored in coolers, these coolers do not freeze the meat and bacteria can still grow hence why meat goes off in your fridge! They can be stored here a lot longer then you would think!

Think i might grab my burm some chicken burgers.... hmmm

(keep in mind my post are about Poultry and Pork)


----------



## Drayvan

RLS said:


> Lions eat FRESH prey, they also live in dry environment where bacteria don't grow well and are more specialized then the domestic cats we find today. What about the good old wet and humid jungles some cats are native to? Cats stomachs are designed to digest tendon and bone...a bit of bacteria will be no problem. There are plenty of anecdotes of feline scavenging.
> 
> as for what cats find outdoors, yes they carry things too, your cat may come across a rotten corpse of a bird now and again, doesn't mean he will eat it. cats carry a lot of bad things, so do raw meat products, those found in the store are proven to carry more concentrated amounts of these bacteria then you would find in a fresh dead animal.
> 
> But you obviously didnt read my previous post.... because if you did, i doubt you would have replied the way you have. This diet causes just as much of an issue with the owner as it does the cat. You may was your hands after handing the meat, but your cats don't? neither do they wash there paws after using their litter tray... Just search "toxoplasmosis" in google, have a read. Thats just one common problem with raw food, the more raw food the greater chance of picking this up over time. The odd bird from the back garden is a problem but concentrating this problem by adding more shop bought raw meat or any raw meat for that matter. This comes down to the health of the owners and not just the cats. ESPECIALLY pregnant women! I don't know about your cats, but the hundreds, if not thousands of cats that I have worked with have been fastidiously clean, it's again common sense for pregnant women to be careful around any cat, not just raw fed ones.
> 
> I wont be replying anymore on this thread because typically people don't know there facts and just think because they do in the wild..... well im sorry your cats are not lions, sorry to disappoint you... :S I'm well aware as to what my cats are or aren't. They are predators, built to kill and eat other animals. Not to eat cooked slop from a bowl. They share many traits with other felines, the lions were to make an obvious point, I apologise if that was lost on you.
> 
> If you want to be responsible, AT LEAST make people aware of the dangers of this diet, that have been proven in studies. I agree with you here, but a lot of what you have said seems to be based on not much and makes no sense at all when you relate it to the biology, behaviour and anatomy of the animal in question.
> 
> I was trying to give you information, not tell you that you were wrong in doing so.


What I will add is that there is no argument in my mind as to the significant difference in bacteria levels between a fresh kill (thats possibly had its stomach contents and bowel/bladder contents opened up during feeding?? Eaten off the floor that hasn't been cleaned!!!) and a commercially produced piece of meat from a shop, they won't be loaded with bacteria, these are sold as fit for human consumption and a chilled almost as soon as slaughtered to prevent bacteria build up. I don't really get why you think we are being sold bacteria ridden raw meat?

Food for thought (see what I did there?) Vets are saying that raw feeding isn't a good thing? Could that be because the animals need less vet visits? The same vets who have our pets best interest at heart yet, despite the evidence (my own animal nutrition lecturer did her PHD on the correlation between the increased use of dry diets and the increase in companion cats and dogs diabetes) still advise people to use dry diets which may not be best for our pets...because they get money to! Money makes the world go round...not animal welfare i'm afraid. 

Apologies, I seem to have wandered onto a tangent there :blush:


----------



## freekygeeky

Gingerboy AKA Battlecat (25 year old cat with two teeth!) eating some scrummy chicken this morning!


----------



## sa123

*hi*

Hi know a British short haired breeder and shows of 30 years , she always feeds rabbit , that were net catched so no nastey pellets , the head and feet were cut of, skinned of course think that was all they must of been gutted?, then the whole lot was minest up bones also for calcium then froze and defrosted to feed, her kittens were the biggest i had seen for age plus the adult cats are big boned and big she has so many champions produced in this country and others so something must be working right for her.


----------



## 5plusmany

I actually think 'RLS' has made some very good points HOWEVER cats (even domestic ones!) are far better equipped than us to deal with bacteria. I won't go into this further as I think the points raised by others said enough.
That said, though, I would point out that freezing food DOES NOT KILL bacteria - it merely stops the bacteria already present from multiplying. As soon as the food comes back up in temperature (through defrosting) those bacteria will again begin to multiply. This is why when defrosting raw meats and fish for human consumption the general advice is to do so in the fridge as keeping the temperature low restricts the multiplication of bacteria. Just something to bear in mind.
Great sticky, thanks!

Edit: Just thought I'd add that I've eaten food past it's 'sell by' date numerous times and have had no ill effects, if anything supermarkets play it safe with these dates.


----------



## sa123

*hi*

I am a outsider looking at this ladies cats that has breed for 30 years thats a long time on a raw diet and seeing the diffrence in their size very large, big boned etc its so diffrent to others i have seen on biscuits . I myself have not used a raw diet reason biscuits and the odd bit of wet food is faster and none smelly when your in a rush.


----------



## freekygeeky

It's funny one of the reasons I stopped using it was the smell. Cat food makes me gag!!!

P.s thank you op. 

Pp.s I meant to put a video link up there ^ of ginger today. Whoops. Lol.


----------



## angelgirls29

Haven't got a cat (because of where I live) but when I get somewhere bigger I really would like a big (domestic) cat.

One question that no-one else has mentioned (or seems to have thought about?) is where do you feed your cats as it must get a bit messy sometimes?
Sorry if there is an obvious answer :blush:


----------



## freekygeeky

angelgirls29 said:


> Haven't got a cat (because of where I live) but when I get somewhere bigger I really would like a big (domestic) cat.
> 
> One question that no-one else has mentioned (or seems to have thought about?) is where do you feed your cats as it must get a bit messy sometimes?
> Sorry if there is an obvious answer :blush:



mincey stuff and chopped heart etc in a bowl, boney stuff outside


----------



## freekygeeky

heres the video...

1 March 2013 01:53 | Facebook


----------



## freekygeeky

Who here uses fish? Or seafood? What do you use?


----------



## em_40

Glad to get my cat back on a whole prey diet, he's been on biscuits for a week (had to be looked after by my mother) and his breath and poos stink!! Especially his breath, eww...


I do feed fish but my cat's not really that fond, I feed sprats and sardines as well as prawns and the odd 'scrap bits' of fish we are eating... The dog gets the leftover, a whole sardine is a bit large.


----------



## freekygeeky

em_40 said:


> Glad to get my cat back on a whole prey diet, he's been on biscuits for a week (had to be looked after by my mother) and his breath and poos stink!! Especially his breath, eww...
> 
> 
> I do feed fish but my cat's not really that fond, I feed sprats and sardines as well as prawns and the odd 'scrap bits' of fish we are eating... The dog gets the leftover, a whole sardine is a bit large.


Naww


----------



## feorag

em_40 said:


> I do feed fish but my cat's not really that fond, I feed sprats and sardines as well as prawns and the odd 'scrap bits' of fish we are eating... The dog gets the leftover, a whole sardine is a bit large.


Careful with the prawns - too high in magnesium and can contribute towards UTIs.


----------



## Jasberfloob

*recipes - cat nutrition*


This is what we use

:whistling2:​ 

*Raw Cat Food Diet Recipe Made WITH Real Bones 

2 kg [4.4 pounds] raw muscle meat with bones (chicken thighs and drumsticks or, better, a whole carcass of rabbit or chicken amounting to 2 kg; if you don't use a whole carcass, opt for dark meat like thighs and drumsticks from chicken or turkey and remove/don't use 20 to 25 percent of the bone; if using whole rabbit, which has a higher bone-to-meat ratio than chicken, dilute the extra bone by adding another 20 to 25 percent of plain muscle meat and skin and fat from rabbit, chicken, or turkey)

400 grams [14 oz] raw heart (best not to use use beef heart; if no heart is available, substitute with 4000 mg Taurine)

200 grams [7 oz] raw liver (don't use beef liver; if you can't find appropriate liver, you can substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D--but try to use real liver rather than substitutes)

NOTE: If you cannot find the heart or liver and decide to substitute with the Taurine/Vitamin A and D, then remember to REPLACE the missing amount of organ meat with the equivalent amount of muscle meat. In other words, if you cannot find heart, you add another 400 grams of the meat/bones. If you can't find the liver, add another 200 grams of meat/bone.

16 oz [2 cups] water

4 raw egg yolks (use eggs from free-range, antibiotic-free chickens if you can)***

4 capsules raw glandular supplement, such as, for example, multigland supplement by Immoplex.

4000 mg salmon oil (see note at bottom of recipe*)

800 IU Vitamin E ("dry E" works well)

200 mg Vitamin B-50 complex (i.e., four capsules of B-50)

1.5 tsp. Lite salt (with iodine) 

(optional: 4 tsp. psyllium husk powder (8 tsp. if using whole psyllium husks; see note at bottom of recipe**)

NOTE: If you will not be using the food immediately and freezing for more than a week or two, toss in 4000 mg of additional Taurine to make up for what may get lost during storage. It is also not a bad idea to sprinkle extra Taurine from a capsule on the food as you're serving it two or three times a week, just to be certain your cat is getting plenty of this critical amino acid.

1. Remove about half of the skin from the muscle meat. Chunk up (i.e., cut) as much of the muscle meat (minus most of the skin if using chicken or turkey, but leave skin on if using rabbit) as you can stand into bite-sized (nickel-sized, approximately) pieces. Save the chunked meat for later. Do not grind it.

2. Grind the raw liver, any skin, raw meaty bones, and raw heart. Once ground, stir this meat/bone mixture well and return to refrigerator.

3. Fill a bowl with 2 cups of water and whisk everything (non-meat) except the psyllium. If you had to replace liver with Vitamin A/D or replace heart with Taurine, add the substitutes now. Add psyllium at the end -- if you're using it -- and mix well. Finally, put the three mixtures together--the "supplement slurry" that you have just mixed, the ground up meat/bone/organs, and the chunks of meat that you cut up by hand. Portion into containers and freeze.

Don't overfill the containers. The food expands when frozen and you don't want lids popping off. Thaw as you go. The food shouldn't be left thawed in the refrigerator more than 48 hours before serving. To serve, portion into a 'zipper baggie' and warm under hot water in the sink. NEVER microwave the food. Cats like their food at something approximating "mouse body temperature."

*Every two or three days, I suggest sprinkling a few drops of fresh salmon oil from a newly-opened capsule on to the cats' food. The Essential Fatty Acids in salmon oil are extremely fragile, and since we do not know exactly how much gets lost during freezing, I think it's wise to use a bit of fresh salmon oil directly on the food a few times a week. Most cats love the flavor.

**Not all cats require additional fiber (psyllium) in their diet. If your cat has been eating low-quality commercial food for several years, especially dry food, she may have lost bowel elasticity and may benefit from the extra fiber. As a general rule, I recommend using psyllium when an adult cat first gets raw food. I rarely add much psyllium to my adult cats' diet. Bear in mind that some cats seem to get constipated without additional fiber, whereas other cats seem to get constipated if they get too much fiber. Each cat is unique, and you'll have to judge what works best for your cat.

***If you don't want to waste the egg whites and don't feel like making an angel food cake, poach them, grind them, and throw them in with the food. A nice phosphorus-free source of protein.  

Raw Cat Food Diet Recipe Made WITHOUT Real Bones 
(not recommended, except in a pinch) 

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: The recipe that follows is inferior to the recipe above. Why? Because it does not contain real bone and relies on an isolated calcium supplement. Cats should eat REAL bone. But if you do not yet have a grinder, this recipe will suffice for short-term use. It also has some gelatin in it to make up for missing cartilage. Please do not use this recipe indefinitely.


1400 grams [3 lbs] raw muscle meat (i.e., chicken thighs and drumsticks meat. leaving about half the skin)

400 grams [14 oz] raw heart (if no heart is available, substitute with 4000 mg Taurine)

200 grams [7 oz] raw liver (if you can't find appropriate liver, you can substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D--but try to use real liver instead of substitutes)

NOTE: If you cannot find the heart or liver and decide to substitute with the Taurine/Vitamin A and D, then remember to REPLACE the missing amount of organ meat with the equivalent amount of muscle meat. In other words, if you cannot find heart, you add another 400 grams of the meat. If you can't find the liver, add another 200 grams of meat/bone.

16 oz [2 cups] water

4 tablespoons bonemeal (the kind intended for human consumption--not the type used for gardening)

2 tablespoons unflavored gelatin

4 raw egg yolks (use eggs from free-range, antibiotic-free chickens if you can)***

4 capsules raw glandular supplement, such as, for example, multigland supplement by Immoplex

4000 mg salmon oil (see note at bottom of recipe*)

800 IU Vitamin E ("dry E" works well)

200 mg Vitamin B-50 complex (i.e., four capsules of B-50)

1.5 tsp. Lite salt (with iodine)

(optional: 4 tsp. psyllium husk powder (8 tsp. if using whole psyllium husks; see note at bottom of recipe**)

NOTE: If you will not be using the food immediately and freezing for more than a week or two, toss in 4000 mg of additional Taurine to make up for what may get lost during storage. It is also not a bad idea to sprinkle extra Taurine from a capsule on the food as you're serving it two or three times a week, just to be certain your cat is getting plenty of this critical amino acid.

1. Remove about half of the skin from the muscle meat. Chunk up (i.e., cut) much of the muscle meat (minus most of the skin if using chicken or turkey, but leave skin on if using rabbit) into bite-sized (nickel-sized, approximately) pieces. Save the chunked meat for later - do not grind it.

2. Grind the raw liver, remaining meat and the raw heart. Once ground, stir this mixture well and return to refrigerator. Once ground, stir this mixture very well and refrigerate.

3. Fill a bowl with 2 cups of water and whisk everything (non-meat) except the psyllium and gelatin. If you had to replace liver with Vitamin A and D or heart with Taurine, add those substitutes now. Add psyllium (if you're using that) and gelatin at the end and stir well. (If you add the psyllium and gelatin too soon it clumps up.) Finally, put the three mixtures together -the "supplement slurry" that you have just mixed, the ground-up meat, and the chunks of meat you cut by hand. Portion into containers and freeze.

Don't overfill the containers. Thaw only what you can use within 48 hours. Warm the food in a plastic bag under hot water to take off the chill, and serve.

*Every two or three days, I suggest sprinkling a few drops of fresh salmon oil from a newly-opened capsule on to the cats' food. The Essential Fatty Acids in salmon oil are extremely fragile, and since we don't know exactly how much gets lost during freezing, I think it's wise to use a bit of fresh salmon oil directly on the food a few times a week. Most cats love the flavor.

**Not all cats require additional fiber (psyllium) in their diet. If your cat has been eating low-quality commercial food for several years, especially dry food, she may have lost bowel elasticity and may benefit from the extra fiber. As a general rule, I recommend using psyllium when an adult cat first gets raw food. I rarely add much psyllium to my adult cats' diet. Bear in mind that some cats seem to get constipated without additional fiber, whereas other cats seem to get constipated if they get too much fiber. Each cat is unique, and you'll have to judge what works best for your cat.

***If you don't want to waste the egg whites and don't feel like making an angel food cake, poach them, grind them, and throw them in with the food. A nice phosphorus-free source of protein. 

*

*How much food does this make? *

A batch based on the top recipe makes a wee bit over 2 kg (4.4 pounds) of food. How long that will last is entirely dependent on your cat. 

In truth, I usually make about a triple-sized batch. 

If you're using the super-nifty pint-sized can-or-freeze jars to store food (see Supplies), each jar holds _about_ 400 grams of food. That means that if you make a single-sized batch (2 kg), you will need _about_ five or six jars to store the food. 

Those six-ish jars should feed the average healthy adult cat (and I know, no cat is average) for _about_ 12-14 days. Please understand that every cat's appetite, needs, activity level, body size, and moods are different so your mileage may vary. 

Hop on over to the the FAQ page for more on how much to feed your cat. (Spoiler alert: _I really don't know_, but I can give you a ballpark guesstimate.)​


----------



## freekygeeky

Eek, one of those ingredients causes harm to fertility/embryos in humans!


----------



## Jamiioo

Which ingredient is that? I don't like the idea of grinding bones. 

I can't find my last post (going to have another hunt in a moment!) 

But i think i asked, does anyone have any examples of what they feed over the course of 1/2 weeks?

I feed my dog raw and thinking about putting the kitten on it, would just like something effective to follow as i am a bit wary of getting proportions etc wrong given she is so young! x


----------



## Jamiioo

Also, why shouldn't you use beef heart/liver with cats?


----------



## freekygeeky

I feed four cats in the morning, and 5 in the evening. (one is on prescription food), this is an average day, it changes massively, depending on how much i have in the freezer, whats on offer, and if i have money!

*MORNING*
Mine get minced food in the morning (80p per pack split 4 ways) this will be either, beef, chicken, tripe, rabbit, turkey. I do this as its easier and quicker for the mornings, before work!

*DAYTIME* 
I give them a little snack, if im in so possible an egg each? Or if im preparing a meal, and have left overs or trimmings of healthy shizz they'll get that.

*EVENING*
They get something random from the freezer, this could be..

- kidneys
- heart
- liver
- fish
- eggs
- turkey
- chicken
etc etc 


This changes somewhat if its a weekend, and im here all day. I'd normally give them boney things, chicken wings, lamb bones, necks etc etc etc. Which they can eat in the garden.


----------



## Whosthedaddy

freekygeeky said:


> I feed four cats in the morning, and 5 in the evening. (one is on prescription food), this is an average day, it changes massively, depending on how much i have in the freezer, whats on offer, and if i have money!
> 
> *MORNING*
> Mine get minced food in the morning (80p per pack split 4 ways) this will be either, beef, chicken, tripe, rabbit, turkey. I do this as its easier and quicker for the mornings, before work!
> 
> *DAYTIME*
> I give them a little snack, if im in so possible an egg each? Or if im preparing a meal, and have left overs or trimmings of healthy shizz they'll get that.
> 
> *EVENING*
> They get something random from the freezer, this could be..
> 
> - kidneys
> - heart
> - liver
> - fish
> - eggs
> - turkey
> - chicken
> etc etc
> 
> 
> This changes somewhat if its a weekend, and im here all day. I'd normally give them boney things, chicken wings, lamb bones, necks etc etc etc. Which they can eat in the garden.


So can I feed our kitten basically the frozen mixes I get for the dog with just some supplements added per meal?

Quite chuffed so far that he has had some cod / haddock, fresh prawns, raw chicken and even tonight scoffed some heart before he tucked into his dinner. 

I'd be keen to get him off the Whiskers as he stinks when he craps and poops more than the Bullmastiff and only a 50th of her size!


----------



## feorag

Careful with the prawns, though. They have a high quantity of magnesium in them and that causes upper urinary tract problems.


----------



## Whosthedaddy

Cheers, certainly not something we have in the house very often, only or the odd fish pie.


----------



## freekygeeky

For those who think cats cant do big bones, my lot love them, heres scooby! he munched it for a good 30 mins, then it started to rain!


----------



## freekygeeky

People often ask me how on earth does my older cat get on .. 

Ok he isn't as quick as the others, it takes alot of effort! (no teeth, and 25 years old ish)

And he doesn't quite get as much as the others, so i will top his meal up with eggs or the like. (He can't eat the bone).

But he has loads of FUN!!


----------



## feorag

Gums are hard enough to gnaw, although obviously not as good as teeth, but with the rasping tongue a cat has they can still lick a good bit of flesh off a bone! :2thumb:


----------



## freekygeeky

feorag said:


> Gums are hard enough to gnaw, although obviously not as good as teeth, but with the rasping tongue a cat has they can still lick a good bit of flesh off a bone! :2thumb:


and big huge paws and claws!!!


----------



## freekygeeky

So i've taken the plunge and bought bulk online!!! The quality etc was SO much better than expected! The cats LOVED it!

Here are some of them! Eating minced Duck Carcasses.


----------



## karl martin

my cat used to eat tinned meat but went off it when she reached a year old so now shes on biscuits. i do feed her on cooked meat and sardines, tuna, smoked salmon whenever i eat it which it regularly. 

with raw food does it smell ?
do i need to remove the bones ?
and doesn't raw foods contain salmonella etc ?


----------



## karl martin

my cat used to eat tinned meat but went off it when she reached a year old so now shes on biscuits. i do feed her on cooked meat and sardines, tuna, smoked salmon whenever i eat it which it regularly. 

with raw food does it smell ?
do i need to remove the bones ?
and doesn't raw foods contain salmonella etc ?

once there on raw food if for any reason you need to go back to tinned or biscuits cos your away etc will they be ok or can they get fussy and refuse ?


----------



## feorag

If you watched the programme on BBC 2 "The Truth about Your Dog's Food", where they discussed the dog food industry and compared feeding manufactured foods and raw, you'd now know that yes, the raw food you are feeding will very well contain Salmonella and campylobacter and other bacteria that are in raw meat.


----------



## freekygeeky

with raw food does it smell ? (No it smells like raw meat we eat... - tripe however REAKS)

do i need to remove the bones ? (no)

and doesn't raw foods contain salmonella etc ? (yes all meat can possibly have it, however cats are amazingly tuff and eat all sorts, theyve never been ill from what theyve eaten, and that includes birds with maggots in them!)

once there on raw food if for any reason you need to go back to tinned or biscuits cos your away etc will they be ok or can they get fussy and refuse ? (my lot could easily turn back to normal cat food, however im sure once youve sytarted it, youd never go back.)


----------



## alasdairgordon

*Kiezebrink UK Ltd.*

To see a wide selection of frozen raw meats you could potentially feed your cat see our website: www.kiezebrink.co.uk :welcome:
Not necessarily the cheapest, but great selection and good quality with no added fillers such as rice or wheat.


----------



## ami_j

Just got a new kitten and i want him raw fed. So far so good he has had chicken and some tinned fish, just ate it like he has all his life  hoping he takes to other stuff as well

This was his first raw meal


----------



## cjbulloch

Just having a wee read over this subject, Im for feeding raw but as someone mention already, dont think the supermarket meat is as fresh as it should be. 
Have found Lidl's Chicken to be better than Tesco. 

I have 3 cats at the moment. Charlie 1yr 8mths Half maine **** and a big boy, practically eats for two lol, Oscar is smaller and sleeker moggie and McKaella is a little stubby female who is half persian. All love their food!

It cost me between £7.50-£8 per week to feed ALL of them. I make batches every 7days on the dot. 

Ingredients used:
either 1 x 2kg chicken or 2 x 1.25kg chickens from Lidl
450-500g of heart 
450-500g of liver from Tesco
5 x gel capsules of fish oil (dont use cod liver on its own)
2-3 cups of water
If theres no heart you can substitute with two fillets of salmon. 

Cook the chicken for 20(1.25kg chickens) to 30(2kg) minutes to kill off bacteria on the outside of meat. around 170 degrees c.

Pan fry with water or olive oil the organs but for only 2 minutes on each side.
Melt the capsules in 1 cup of boiling water (have to stir vigorously with fork)

Cleave up the chicken into pieces that will fit through the grinder

(I bought a meat grinder that makes sausages- tells you not to grind bones but its ok if they are not cooked to within a inch of oblivion! Has a reverse button if anything does get stuck, have only used once in 2years)£80 from amazon, has white frame. 

(When chopping you should see darkish red in the bones, this is good, if its gone brown its lost its nutritional value, you might as well cook the rest of it for yourself to eat) 

Pop the organs through the grinder. Add the fish oil. Stir well. Dish out into 6 x 700ml tuperware boxes. Freeze what your not using for the next day or two. 

After having to watch both my elderly cats age with very painful chronic diseases, I would not hesitate to recommend feeding your cat the right food, which isn't full of fillers, wheat and pieces of chewed up animal parts which cant even be called meat anymore ie 'meat derivatives'. The pet food industry is out to make money any way possible and to help keep vets in a job.


----------



## [email protected]

*Raw feeding*

I personally do not agree with a raw pet food diet. Dog food toppers are great though! use them on both my two dogs.


----------

