# my OH doesnt agree with keeping reptiles..



## Shelly24 (Aug 28, 2008)

hi all,

yesterday i was chatting on about getting my new leo and my OH, although he listens and helps me build vivs n stuff, said that he doesnt agree with keeping them as pets. He said he feels they are wild animals and that we shouldnt keep them. 

We had a bit of a heated discussion (which has led to him wanting 'a quiet night in on his own'  ) where i said that if we are good owners in that we try to recreate their natural environment and keep them as wild as possible isnt that ok and he didnt agree.

im sure there are lots of people for and against, maybe not on here but it kind of got me thinking about the subject. 
I dont personally see anything wrong with captive breeding reptiles for them to go to good homes with nice big vivs etc but i dont agree with taking wild specimens and keeping them in a viv, but then the first ones would of come out of the wild to captive breed anyway....

confusing..

anyone care to discuss?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

If he does not agree with keeping reptiles, he must also not agree with keeping birds, hamsters, rabbits, fish - these animals are also not domesticated, and are essential captive bred versions of wild animals (in the case of fish, often wild caught animals). Does he tell people who keep budgies, parrots, hamsters, and fish that they shouldn't be kept as pets?

If he singles reptiles out then he is a hypocrite, as long as the environment is correct and the needs are met there is little difference between exotic reptiles and exotic birds, exotic mammals or exotic fish.


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## Shelly24 (Aug 28, 2008)

thats what i said actually. I said 'what about hamsters, gerbils, mice etc and he didnt really have an arguement there, he said its not the same, i think its completely the same with any animal. The animal itself doesnt know whether its supposed to be out in the wild or whether it was created as a family pet, when they are born they know nothing else so if we can give them a good life in a big enclosure which meets their needs what is the problem?


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

By the look of your sig you also have a horse and two dogs...

Maybe you should ask if he agrees with keeping those as 'pets' Seeing as a horse in a stable on its own is further out of its natural environment than say a leopard gecko on its own in a viv.

Horses are herd animals and dogs are pack animals -shrug- Where as a leo is perfectly happy alone, so personally I think we make reptile homes more like their natural surroundings than we do anything else.
hamsters for example on peat or shavings... Really going to find that in the wild eh?

Also going to find a piece of plastic shaped like a house...


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## Shelly24 (Aug 28, 2008)

Spider Call said:


> Also going to find a piece of plastic shaped like a house...


:rotfl:

of course you do, they are just a little blander, no curtains! HAHAHA!!


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

Oh some people!
His point would be more valid if he had a decent argument behind it, rather than just 'they are wild animals, they should be in the wild!'

I used to have a friend that thought horse riding was cruel, yet would happily put bets on the races :|


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## Shelly24 (Aug 28, 2008)

RSPCA think people shouldnt keep reptiles as pets dont they, wonder what their arguement is?


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Sadly you come across people who just can't and won't see your perspective in life. 

You have to accept that if a reasoned debate on the topic doesnt look like it will sway them, then they arent going to change their minds and you can't persist in trying to.

At this point, you need to forget the rest and decide if or how it will affect your relationship and if it won't then just let it lie.


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## Taxemic (Aug 13, 2008)

Beardies are practically domesticated where they've been bred in captivity so long now that they are no longer wild animals. I don't agree with birds being kept as pets because their freedom is to fly and confining them to a cage where they can't do what they have evolved to do sickens me. But what can we say about dogs, cats, horses?

For people that want to keep reps and imitate a natural environment is good to some extent but nowdays people often just use tiles etc and the reps we keep are becoming domesticated.


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## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

Keeping reptiles are probably the best pets to keep purely beause you can give them everything they need where as most other animals will either want more space or ridiculous amounts of food.

But i tho ive kept birds i tihnk they need 100 times more space than anyone gives them and i hate to see them kept in tiny cages, especially things like rosellas, macaws which are wonderful birds and in the wild are never found on their own!


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## Taxemic (Aug 13, 2008)

If someone likes wild animals - leave 'em in the wild. If you want to raise a pet and have it as tame then you are taking away that privalige no?


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

i have a similar problem with my misses over reptiles, she says they shouldn't be kept vivariums or tanks or tubs, but i will argue the fact that she has kept rabbits and dogs etc etc which is the same thing.

i wanted a monitor lizard, a large one as she said its cruel to keep them as they are large wild animals, so a large animal that has been bred and raised in captivity, should be released into the wild!!! it wouldn't last the week.

its just the anti reptile people who don't know what they are talking about, yet again


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## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

i dont see the problem with keeping snakes and reps in viv scoz like evryone has said, most people create an environemtn for them which is like the wild anyway, i dont like keeping pets in rubs tho, if your breeding its easier, but ive seen some pics where the there is just a water bowl in there and the snake, and i dont think thats fair. 

However, i dont agree with people that keep budgies, cockatiels , parrots etc in crappy little cages in their houses, especially the ones that never let them out for a fly, becaise thats what they are meant to do, i think if you are going to keep birds, you might as well do it properly and build a good large avery(spellt wrong i think) so they can have a fly as well.


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

most of these people are more than happy to go visit the zoo, whats the difference?


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## Taxemic (Aug 13, 2008)

Elisha Metcalf said:


> i dont see the problem with keeping snakes and reps in viv scoz like evryone has said, most people create an environemtn for them which is like the wild anyway, i dont like keeping pets in rubs tho, if your breeding its easier, but ive seen some pics where the there is just a water bowl in there and the snake, and i dont think thats fair.
> 
> However, i dont agree with people that keep budgies, cockatiels , parrots etc in crappy little cages in their houses, especially the ones that never let them out for a fly, becaise thats what they are meant to do, i think if you are going to keep birds, you might as well do it properly and build a good large avery(spellt wrong i think) so they can have a fly as well.


I with you. :2thumb:


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

um...i often feel guitly, esp with stuff like tokays, as all usually wc, and stress etc kills em off by the time they get here, then not all are ok...

BD's are ok, as long as looked after, enough space etc. but i feel it depends on the animals..

many a time, esp after having ill or neglected stuff dumped on us, and it dies i feel like getting rid of everything and only wanting them to be in the wild....


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Shelly24 said:


> I said 'what about hamsters, gerbils, mice etc and he didnt really have an arguement there, he said its not the same,?


how silly.it is the same.


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## VoodooWitchDoctor (Sep 3, 2008)

If any animal is captive bread, it would die if released into the wild.

It wouldn't know what to do.


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

if the animal is happy in captivity then theres nothing wrong but ii have a African Grey parrot and don't agree with keeping her in captivity sometimes she used to be really sad so now she doe sent live in her cage shes out 24-7 but sometimes she gets lonely Evan though theres someone in all day talking to her maybe shes a biit spoiled :whistling2:


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## blackdragon (Jun 27, 2008)

i don't see a problem with keeping any animal as a pet if your keeping it in a way that is healthy. the places that most animals come from are getting smaller and smaller as we build on there land so animals that have become pets have guaranteed there survival in the world in our homes even if there habitat gets destroyed they will not become extinct. I think its natural to keep pets lots of animals live close together and depend on each other for survival people forget that humans are also animals and I'm sure we used to share our caves with snakes and lizards to help control rodents in the past and used other animals for work like cattle or dogs, pets are just an evolution of that and not to keep animals as pets will just distance our selfs from accepting the fact that we are also animals


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## DRACONODON (Apr 28, 2008)

Athravan said:


> If he does not agree with keeping reptiles, he must also not agree with keeping birds, hamsters, rabbits, fish - these animals are also not domesticated, and are essential captive bred versions of wild animals (in the case of fish, often wild caught animals). Does he tell people who keep budgies, parrots, hamsters, and fish that they shouldn't be kept as pets?
> 
> If he singles reptiles out then he is a hypocrite, as long as the environment is correct and the needs are met there is little difference between exotic reptiles and exotic birds, exotic mammals or exotic fish.


 
Very well spoken i couldnt agree more:no1:


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## beege_3 (May 20, 2005)

My father in law often says things like this, but yet he used to keep rabbits, dogs etc. If someone in china god knows how many hundreds of years ago never started keeping dogs as hunting companions etc then would he agree with keeping wild dogs?

It's a no brainer arguement that often comes up when there are underlying issues imo!

Also theres the fact that if noone ever started keeping WC animals, and the amount of deforestation etc, would there be any hope at all for the survival of endangered animals?!

Sorry if this sounds full on, I'm not the best at explaining what I am trying to put across especially when its across the net where you cant exactly tell the tone its meant.


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## beege_3 (May 20, 2005)

VoodooWitchDoctor said:


> If any animal is captive bread, it would die if released into the wild.
> 
> It wouldn't know what to do.


I wouldnt of thought so, they have survival instincts and I would think that yeah you may have losses, but there would be some that would strive.


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## gtm (Jan 23, 2008)

My wife is similar - she just about tolerates the tortoises because they go in the garden in the Summer. I wanted a Gecko but I was'nt allowed one on the basis 'they look miserable in vivariums':bash: & I have to put up with her flatulent, gormless greyhound.


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

beege_3 said:


> I wouldnt of thought so, they have survival instincts and I would think that yeah you may have losses, but there would be some that would strive.


yeah, stick a 100000 cb tokays back, they would be fine.....disease and worms etc might be a problem


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

Shelly24 said:


> :rotfl:
> 
> of course you do, they are just a little blander, no curtains! HAHAHA!!


Lol! XD 

I am so making a little house for my crestie with little curtains <_< He would 'LOVE' it -snort-


I do however have somehting to say on keeping birds D:

I think unless you are actually going to provide space so it CAN fly you should not have them. 
They are smart D: And get so bored ; ; 
There was a cockatoo doing his nut at the store near us  And a macaw behind glass.... And I just stood and looked at him... His eyes looked dead ; ;
I don't think the macaw would even be able to spread his wings in the width..


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## beege_3 (May 20, 2005)

cooljules said:


> yeah, stick a 100000 cb tokays back, they would be fine.....disease and worms etc might be a problem


I dont know alot about Tokays personally, but im sure there would be *some* that survived.


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## NXSmiggy (Oct 29, 2008)

just my 2p worth, but comparing the lifespan of lets say a wild beardie to a captive one

are they any better in the wild

sure we remove alot of things that they require from the wild suce as intensive heat, a copetition for food and incredibly high UVB levels, but also remove things suce as risk of impaction, localised predators, food shortages.

I for one belive that even though keeping "Wild" animals can be considered wrong, it firmly falls into 2 seperate camps , with no one sitting on the fence.

im fine with keeping them , as long as they are cared for with love and devotion.


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## Master_Of_Darkness (Sep 18, 2007)

Athravan said:


> If he does not agree with keeping reptiles, he must also not agree with keeping birds, hamsters, rabbits, fish - these animals are also not domesticated, and are essential captive bred versions of wild animals (in the case of fish, often wild caught animals). Does he tell people who keep budgies, parrots, hamsters, and fish that they shouldn't be kept as pets?
> 
> If he singles reptiles out then he is a hypocrite, as long as the environment is correct and the needs are met there is little difference between exotic reptiles and exotic birds, exotic mammals or exotic fish.


you could even argue that its actually worse to have some of the common pets like cats and dogs, because not only are they also from the wild originally, but they are inbred so badly that many "breeds" suffer a huge range of issues throughout their lives...


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Myself personally, I don't agree with keeping Wild caught animals, unless, they were trying to bred to create a Captive collection for the better of the species. But Captive Bred I have no problem with, they were born into captivity, and will leave in captivity. IMO, Leopard gecko's, Cornsnakes and other common reptiles are almost as domesticated as dogs, period. And again, with keeping birds its abit eeky with me, i have no problem with Budgies and cockatiels as they have been in the pet trade and captivity for so long, i see them as 'pets' aslong as their needs are met. But when it comes to magnifficent birds like the Macaw, i strongly agree they shouldn't be kept in cages and should have a huge aviary were they can fly. just my opinion.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Most of the arguments i have heard about reptiles is normally along the lines of:



You take them from the wild.
Not enough research has been done how to keep them.
They are scary.
They destroy reptile population in other areas.
What most people don't realise is that dogs/horses/cats have been domesticated for hundreds/thousands of years. They are used to being with humans. Furthermore the reptile trade has only really been popular for what....twenty years? In another twenty years im willing to bet 90% of animals available will be CB not WC or CF. We are at the midstage of a pet trade development. Its gone from being novel to being serious.

Furthermore in the past five years alone new leaps and bounds have been made on their keeping. Scientists, Zoo's and Keepers always find out new ways of keeping their animals that improve their life. In another five years more improvments will have been made. People may say "we shouldnt be keeping them until we know how" but if it wasnt for people keeping them we wouldnt know anything. Also the amount of people keeping rats/gerbals/dogs/cats incorrectly is scary, reptile keepers in general seem to be more educated.

The scare factor is a big thing, but many people find it easy to get over if they SEE someone handling an animal. Suprisingly lots of people are terrified of bearded dragons but if they see someone handling it they often come over to stroke it and ive seen a few people get a bearded dragon after this and has never looked back. Lets face it BD's are domesticated, its got to the stage where they crave human attention as many keepers will know.

On the last point keeping reptiles helps bring more reptiles into the world, just look at the Crested Geckos who came back from extinction because of the pet trade. Yes we do take lots out of their natural enviroment but as soon as we get a CB scheme up their population will bounce right back up and we can help them do it. None of our domestic pets were born in a cage, they were all taken out of the wild at some point.


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