# Feeding, in its Vivarium or seperate Rub?



## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

I thought id put it to discusstion about the best place to feed a snake because there are mixed views

i asked this question in another thread as follows:


Megan. said:


> When i used to be nervous incase he would bite me id run my hands under cold water for a few minutes.. as they would expect their food to be hot


I replied with:


> well thats a intresting concept, and true about the warm food thing but... dont they also track there food based on movement to


so is it ok to feed your snake in its own enviroment vivarium or rub, or do you feed it in a Seperate area such as another rub?

Some say if you feed it in its own rub or vivarium, it will assoiate your hand going in as food or feeding time and bite you? some say thats not true


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## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

If a snake is not handled enough and the viv is only opened for feeding, then they will associate their viv being opened with feeding. I handle mine a lot so they dont associate their viv being opened with food. I feed most snakes in the viv, In the case of snakes i am housing together, i split them up to feed. If there is a particularly picky feeder, that is the one i will leave in the viv.

Some Snakes (such as my Mangrove) will absolutely refuse to feed out of the viv or after being handled, so i have no choice but to feed him in his viv.


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## Megan. (Mar 11, 2009)

bw89 said:


> Some Snakes (such as my Mangrove) will absolutely refuse to feed out of the viv or after being handled, so i have no choice but to feed him in his viv.


Yeah! this is exactly the same as Leo!! He just curls up in a corner until he is placed back in his viv!


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Personally i wouldn't start messing about with him, he's just settling in & you really don't want to start stressing him out any more :2thumb:. You have newspaper down as a substrate, this is fine so feed him in his viv (at least for the first 3 or 4 feeds).


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## shesha_royal (Aug 4, 2010)

I feed mine in seperate rubs. that way they associate being in the rub with food nt with anything that gets poked at them in the viv, my smallest hasnt fed since having him though so i try offering him prey items from the comfort of his viv just to try getting him eating...


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

corny girl said:


> Personally i wouldn't start messing about with him, he's just settling in & you really don't want to start stressing him out any more :2thumb:. You have newspaper down as a substrate, this is fine so feed him in his viv (at least for the first 3 or 4 feeds).


so it wont promote false striking responses when you just go to handle him later on?


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## Megan. (Mar 11, 2009)

No he should be fine don't worry


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm 99.9% sure my two wouldnt eat if i moved them out of their vivs for feeding. They know the difference and i dont see the point to be honest. Saying that im just about to get a nippy king ... i may well be changing my mind :whistling2:


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

see its not the biting that be a concern so to speak, i mean sure it would hurt, sure it would be scary.

the only biting concern would be is if just about every time i put my hand in he wanted to bite.

it would be my fault if it was true that i should try to feed him out of the viv and didnt


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## nelly1 (Oct 27, 2009)

Do your hands smell of rat/mouse all the time.If not why would your snake misstake your hand for food.I feed all mine in vivs from hatchling pits upto a 7ft6" bull no problems with handleing and never been bitten


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

nelly1 said:


> Do your hands smell of rat/mouse all the time.If not why would your snake misstake your hand for food.I feed all mine in vivs from hatchling pits upto a 7ft6" bull no problems with handleing and never been bitten



just thought that it would home in on 2 of its key senses movement and heat.

im no snake expert, im just recalling what seems to be the general consensus and i wanted to know peoples different experiences with the matter.

some say it will promote false strikes, some say it wont, some say its the only way, some say it can be fed separately


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## nelly1 (Oct 27, 2009)

kaleluk31 said:


> just thought that it would home in on 2 of its key senses movement and heat.
> 
> im no snake expert, im just recalling what seems to be the general consensus and i wanted to know peoples different experiences with the matter.
> 
> some say it will promote false strikes, some say it wont, some say its the only way, some say it can be fed separately


.
If you think about it, if the snake thought every time you went in the viv it was food, would it not think the same if you took the snake out to feed.
They react on instinct,ie heat or smell. If you dont smell like a rat if it struck it would probably be defensive


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## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

kaleluk31 said:


> see its not the biting that be a concern so to speak, i mean sure it would hurt, sure it would be scary.
> 
> the only biting concern would be is if just about every time i put my hand in he wanted to bite.
> 
> it would be my fault if it was true that i should try to feed him out of the viv and didnt


he shouldnt strike every time you go in the viv if you handle him enough, if your worried about the first few times get a pair of gardning gloves. Like i said i my snakes dont strike all the time because i handle them quite frequently, but because i have so many i cant handle them nearly as often as id like,:blush: so, rarely i do get bitten. When i had only a few it was easy to keep them from striking everytime i brush the viv.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

nelly1 said:


> .
> If you think about it, if the snake thought every time you went in the viv it was food, would it not think the same if you took the snake out to feed.


erm id have thought no, because feeding it the viv is one area, feeding it in a separate rub is another area

so if it wasn't fed in the viv and that it was fed somewhere completely different it might not associate your hand as food just cos you picked it up, cos thats not the part where it gets food, so if that last part of another rub doesnt comes it aint food time.

however another side of the coin is....

what if you did feed it in another area and yes it took the food, a problem i would find with that is, its suppose to be a sensitive time for the snake, if you handle it even to put it back in the viv, could that not in some way make it sick. cos you are suppose to completely leave it alone for at least 48 hours after feeding, cos after feeding all its gonna wanna do is find a nice warm hidden place to digest the mouse


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## nelly1 (Oct 27, 2009)

Its personal choice realy, in or out.
I just dont agree with the theory of associating opening viv with food.
As said form milk snakes,royals,bull snakes , carpet pythons and Boas all are fed in vivs and no probs.
If you choose to feed out, just wait about 5 mins after snake has finished and carefully lift back in


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## iHorror (Apr 10, 2008)

I feed mine in the viv every 2nd Saturday.
Snakes seem to know when it's feeding day, as they all come out on feeding day, even the ones that constantly hide lol


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

I feed my Conda insitu (taking down a rather large rat):










And my Hognose outside of the viv. He wont drop feed and gets stressed trying to strike or even when in a small tub but seems fine in the hand.


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## Snow_Man_UK (Nov 20, 2006)

Assuming that water changes and spot cleaning are as they should be then the animal will expect a degress of interaction that is not related to feeding. Additionally I would not want to moved a 'hungry' or alert big boy without good reason. 

If in doubt then I would tap train.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

My 08 female is kept in a viv, i feed her in it & she is fine. Never ever shown any sign of striking (only at a rat, never my hand). Thing with Royals is that they can stress easily & this is why i suggested you feed him in his viv (plus you worry too much about him & would worry if he didn't feed if you fed him in a separate tub :whistling2.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

corny girl said:


> My 08 female is kept in a viv, i feed her in it & she is fine. Never ever shown any sign of striking (only at a rat, never my hand). Thing with Royals is that they can stress easily & this is why i suggested you feed him in his viv (plus you worry too much about him & would worry if he didn't feed if you fed him in a separate tub :whistling2.


seems to be more yes`s with feeding inside his viv then separate tub, i think ill go the inside viv option lol


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## Carla-Marie (Mar 5, 2010)

We feed all of our snakes in a rub and not in their vivs. We believe that doing this puts them into feeding mode only when they get are in the relevent rubs. This helps keeps our minds at ease especially when our daughter is getting them out. Although their is no official way of doing things, it boils down to owner preference.


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## kelsey7692 (Jul 28, 2010)

At college we feed all the snakes in their viv. Considering the amount of health and safety stuff that colleges have to do I doubt there is that much of a risk of them striking at you by doing this.

Of course there is always a tiny risk.

Although the reason the college snakes might not strike may be because they've have different students feeding them so there is no one person they associate with food.


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## simondeej (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm no expert but personally i feed my snake in a rub, I have always been told that feeding him in his viv leads to a risk of ingesting the substrate, don't know how true that is but don't much like the sound of it so better safe than sorry. Also, whilst he is in his rub eating it gives me a good chance to have a really good clean of his viv to find those bits of poop missed from the spot cleaning.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

simondeej said:


> I'm no expert but personally i feed my snake in a rub, I have always been told that feeding him in his viv leads to a risk of ingesting the substrate, don't know how true that is but don't much like the sound of it so better safe than sorry. Also, whilst he is in his rub eating it gives me a good chance to have a really good clean of his viv to find those bits of poop missed from the spot cleaning.


seems reasonable to me if you use substrate other then newspaper which i plan to do as well sooner or later


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

*if feeding in a RUB*

If i fed him in a rub and he took it.
how do i pick him up after?

im told after feeding there real grumpy or that they might think there getting a second feed and go for a bite??

what's a way around this?

also the whole picking up right after meal makes them sick, what can i do about that if i fed him in the rub?


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## heron (Nov 21, 2008)

It isn't going to puke its guts up just because you pick it up to put it back in the viv after eating. Although if you tried to handle it as you would regularly, then yes it probably would feel like regurgitating.

I either very lightly and carefully pick it up and put it back in the viv straight away, or angle the rub into the viv and she sort of slides in and goes into her hide for a nap. If you wash your hands/use alcohol gel before doing this, then they shouldn't bite.

I prefer to feed in the rub because I use Aspen. And as already mentioned, it gives me time to do a good spot check for poos.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

kaleluk31 said:


> Some say if you feed it in its own rub or vivarium, it will assoiate your hand going in as food or feeding time and bite you? some say thats not true


My personal experience is that snakes that strike at me in their vivariums tend to be striking for fear/defensiveness, not food-acquisition. I think they're instinctive enough to realise that actually my hand doesn't smell like a rat. And if they're SMART enough to associate "something coming in my viv" with "being fed" they're ALSO smart enough to associate "coming out of my viv" with "being fed".

I prefer to feed my snakes in their vivariums because I don't have to disturb them by getting them out of their safe hiding place to eat (which, in the case of many of my royals would result in them NOT eating) and I don't have to disturb them when they've got a full belly either.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> .
> 
> I prefer to feed my snakes in their vivariums because I don't have to disturb them by getting them out of their safe hiding place to eat (which, in the case of many of my royals would result in them NOT eating) and I don't have to disturb them when they've got a full belly either.


all great advice
is it a myth or is there some truth to right after feeding there grumpy and might bight just out of "having a hissy fit" so to speak cos they just ate??? i speaking in relation to feeding in a separate rub:lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Not so much a hissy fit as they think there MIGHT still be more food on its way - they sort of get into the mode where anything COULD be edible.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Not so much a hissy fit as they think there MIGHT still be more food on its way - they sort of get into the mode where anything COULD be edible.


kinda a catch 22 situation then in that case.
on the one hand people feed in a different rub cos they feel that the snake will associate handing with food time

and then if you feed in the separate rub, you cant get them to the viv without the risk of biting :lol2:

sounds like the feed in the viv is winning :lol2:


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## heron (Nov 21, 2008)

kaleluk31 said:


> kinda a catch 22 situation then in that case.
> on the one hand people feed in a different rub cos they feel that the snake will associate handing with food time
> 
> and then if you feed in the separate rub, you cant get them to the viv without the risk of biting :lol2:
> ...


It's not a case of what the "winning" solution is, it's what suits YOU and YOUR snake.

Everyone has different circumstances. My Royal is unusually active so i'm able to feed successfully in a RUB.

Part of owning a pet is not following guidance word for word. You need to try things for yourself and adapt. There's got to be a certain degree of independent thinking and decision making on your part, because you won't always be able to ask people on a forum.

I'm sorry if I sound overly harsh, but I think you worry too much about your Royal. I don't think i'm alone in that opinion either.


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

heron said:


> It's not a case of what the "winning" solution is, it's what suits YOU and YOUR snake.
> 
> Part of owning a pet is not following guidance word for word. You need to try things for yourself and adapt. There's got to be a certain degree of independent thinking and decision making on your part, because you won't always be able to ask people on a forum.


funny you should say that but, it seems if you disagree with peoples advice on here they get a little to harsh.

i listen to what people sayin here but if it dont seem right to me ill not do it, some people dont like that



> I'm sorry if I sound overly harsh, but I think you worry too much about your Royal. I don't think i'm alone in that opinion either.


i may have read alot about the general keeping of a snake but actually keeping one i do take advice, my concern is not over the top i just wanna do everything right and not have the snake ill or something be cause of what i may have done wrong somewhere along the lines

i think ill have to be very careful what i ask and only post something if absolutely necessary because it seems a forum on help and advice isnt completely help and advice on everything


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

kaleluk31 said:


> funny you should say that but, it seems if you disagree with peoples advice on here they get a little to harsh.
> 
> *i listen to what people sayin here but if it dont seem right to me ill not do it, some people dont like that*
> 
> ...



The bit highlighted in bold, you were told to leave your Royal to settle yet still wanted to feed it. After several people told you not to feed it you finally listened & waited :2thumb:. Yes by all means find a method that suits you but when you first start out take peoples advice on board (afterall they have been there & experienced the ups & downs & the advice is going to probably stop you experiencing too many downs). Believe me i had a Spider Royal who was a nightmare feeder, i could of easily given them up at that point as she was one of my first Royals. I took on board a few peoples advice & got her feeding again but this was after a fair few months of pulling my hair out :devil:. After you've had your Royal a while then is the time to experiment with different methods (but only once it's feeding well for quite a few months). Sorry if i got harsh with you but it just seemed you weren't listening when good sound advice was given to you (you were choosing to ignore it which was getting peoples backs up :whistling2.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

bw89 said:


> If a snake is not handled enough and the viv is only opened for feeding, then they will associate their viv being opened with feeding.


Have to disagree with this, I barely handle any of mine and feed all of them in the viv- none bite or strike when I go in there on non feeding days. : victory:


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## kaleluk31 (Sep 6, 2010)

corny girl said:


> The bit highlighted in bold, you were told to leave your Royal to settle yet still wanted to feed it.


wanting to feed it early and actually feeding it early is 2 different things, i was just concerned about its welfare, the previous owner told me a pack of lies i found later, so what's to say HOW long before i got it that it atually had fed thats why i was concerned but i still did not feed it early

had i have known what i found later that it was going though a shedding it would have all made sense and would not have bothered.



> After several people told you not to feed it you finally listened & waited :2thumb:.


actually the way that went was, i write a thread and several read it and reply isnt the same as not listening and it taking allot of people to reply before i dont do something.

what went though my mind was all the people have for information about the situation is what i tell them, and the only information i had about the situation on its feeding is what the previous owner told me, and remember he lied so that would mean by default if the previous owner lied about the feeding and i got advice based on his lies, then the whole solution could be wrong.



> Yes by all means find a method that suits you but when you first start out take peoples advice on board (afterall they have been there & experienced the ups & downs & the advice is going to probably stop you experiencing too many downs).


and what i learned i took on board, but everyone who has had a snake or actually the snake in question has had different experiences, why? because it would seem everyone's individual snakes has its own personality and set of probs to deal with so i still have to is if a few people tell me things, each persons information is a slightly different experience i have to use my head and do something in between that best suites what everyone is saying not just one.



> I took on board a few peoples advice & got her feeding again but this was after a fair few months of pulling my hair out :devil:.


well im still at the pulling hair period and im still asking questions as a guide or reference, and i hope i will find out everything that works for me and my snake eventually



> Sorry if i got harsh with you but it just seemed you weren't listening when good sound advice was given to you (you were choosing to ignore it which was getting peoples backs up :whistling2.


my opinion isnt based on something i made up, why i give an opinion or a question on the advice is because ive heard from other experienced keepers, so when i disagree its like me trying to find out why or why not to the fact being told


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