# sven koeppler what happend in the end?



## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

As above just curious what happens anyone no


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## hazza12 (Apr 16, 2009)

he got released theres a thread somwere.....


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## hazza12 (Apr 16, 2009)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spiders-inverts/625653-sven-koppler-released.html

found it


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

hazza12 said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spiders-inverts/625653-sven-koppler-released.html
> 
> found it


I'm on that thread that just said he was on bail but couldn't leave the us wondering what the situation is now


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

still on bail, living in Virginia, but he's doing ok :2thumb:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> still on bail, living in Virginia, but he's doing ok :2thumb:


Ah ok that's mental tho he's still gotta reside there


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

He is a top bloke and I hope it all goes well for him.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Stelios said:


> He is a top bloke and I hope it all goes well for him.


Yehi wish him well realy can't see what he did wasthat wrong but there u go just a case of not doing paperwork


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah so what he Fooked, over the tax man whoopie doo. Every one goes on like he is Heinrich Himmler.
Love to hear what they would say about me then ha!


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Hes getting ready for his trial now bless him. Hopefully he will be heading back to Germany soon


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

Am I missing something?! This bloke smuggled 300 T's into America? Even if we forget the whole legal side behind this, i'm guessing he didn't use RMSD for next day service. The T's could have been in there for days or more.

Although Steve has just pointed out that most WC will have had to endure long haul flights from their native countries which I didn't think of.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ChrisNE said:


> Am I missing something?! This bloke smuggled 300 T's into America? Even if we forget the whole legal side behind this, i'm guessing he didn't use RMSD for next day service. The T's could have been in there for days or more.
> 
> Although Steve has just pointed out that most WC will have had to endure long haul flights from their native countries which I didn't think of.


So the press say. You shouldnt believe everything you read in news articles lol


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

selina20 said:


> So the press say. You shouldnt believe everything you read in news articles lol


Very true!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

selina20 said:


> So the press say. You shouldnt believe everything you read in news articles lol


The guy still broke basic import / export laws regarding livestock. 

Anyone that cares about the animals involved would not cut so many corners. Considering "Simply spiders" has been getting slated on AP for shoddy postage within the UK I cannot understand how "because it's Sven" it's somehow OK. 

I hope the guy gets a fair punishment (i.e. an actual punishment enough to stop him doing it again). 

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the average hobbyist is seen as an obsessive collector, willing to ignore laws and sustainable practice to get what species they want. Remember the whole poecilotheria hanumavilasumica thing and the BTS? That was an organisation getting totally blanked basically because of how it (and it's members) was perceived , when trying to conserve a species. How do you think the average Brazilian sees hobby tarantula collectors? Do you think if you appear in Mexico you'd be welcomed in open arms and have red-knee tarantulas gifted to you by the authorities?. 

Widespread support of a dude that gets charged and pleads guilty to smuggling is hardly doing much to change that view, or indeed disprove it.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

GRB said:


> Widespread support of a dude that gets charged and pleads guilty to smuggling is hardly doing much to change that view, or indeed disprove it.


Yes it seem strange people are quick to support Sven 100% when he freely admited he knew what he was doing was wrong dispite him being a nice chap by all acounts, wishing he does not get the book thrown at him is one thing but hoping he gets off scott free is another, but to me it seems unlightly the USFW would have put as much effort into this case if not for the fact CITES species were involved.

But you have to ask the question what is one of the main things that goes though the minds of the living at a funeral, what Sven did is by no means rare im sure there are many people who have been bricking it since this case came to light..


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

He should get whatever the law of the US deems appropriate . 

As I've said on other threads , I imagine he knew his actions were at least questionable but he carried on anyway . Whether you agree with the laws or not , he chose to chance breaking them for profit .


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

> The guy still broke basic import / export laws regarding livestock.


agreed, unfortunately for his family he is being detained in the US, others in the past have been much more fortunate.



> there are many people who have been bricking it since this case came to light


again, i agree, one point would be that all the Peripatus and Wetas that come in from New Zealand come from one source who has been doing it for many years without permit or licence and through the mail....there are others too....there are lots of UK based collectors advertising for African and South American inverts via the post on various message boards....and i would be surprised if none of those people post on RFUK



> Whether you agree with the laws or not , he chose to chance breaking them for profit


once again i agree, my support is for him and his family, not his actions


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> once again i agree, *my support is for him* and his family, not his actions


Why? 

The guy knew what he was doing. You don't jump off a cliff and then whinge because it hurts on the landing :lol:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

GRB said:


> Why?
> 
> The guy knew what he was doing. You don't jump off a cliff and then whinge because it hurts on the landing :lol:


i wish you'd picked a different analogy, lol, two discs compressed to the point of my vertebrae scraping together aparently aggravated by climbing :lol2:

he knew what he was doing yes, the same as even the majority of UK suppliers have always done, and no, no-one is beyond reproach, but as i've said before there are other cases very similar to this where the person involved has been treated much more leniently ie. a hefty bail and extradition


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

ChrisNE said:


> Am I missing something?! This bloke smuggled 300 T's into America? Even if we forget the whole legal side behind this, i'm guessing he didn't use RMSD for next day service. The T's could have been in there for days or more.
> 
> Although Steve has just pointed out that most WC will have had to endure long haul flights from their native countries which I didn't think of.


Sven. Captive bred endagerd brachypelma smithi then imported them bk to there country of origin avoiding import papers I'm assuming to keep the cost down I realy dont see how this is the crime of the century and I think somebody who has captive bred so many animals has doing nothing but good for the hobby however u look at it as far as I'm concerned he should be given a medal for captive breeding something endagerd which is in so much demand , I serious view this as declaring a few extra expenses on ur tax return hardly a crime which warrants serious prison time


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> Sven. *Captive bred endagerd brachypelma smithi then imported them bk to there country of origin* avoiding import papers I'm assuming to keep the cost down I realy dont see how this is the crime of the century and I think somebody who has captive bred so many animals has doing nothing but good for the hobby however u look at it as far as I'm concerned he should be given a medal for captive breeding something endagerd which is in so much demand , I serious view this as declaring a few extra expenses on ur tax return hardly a crime which warrants serious prison time


Lol where do B.smithis come from??


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> Sven. Captive bred endagerd brachypelma smithi then imported them bk to there country of origin avoiding import papers I'm assuming to keep the cost down I realy dont see how this is the crime of the century and I think somebody who has captive bred so many animals has doing nothing but good for the hobby however u look at it as far as I'm concerned he should be given a medal for captive breeding something endagerd which is in so much demand , I serious view this as declaring a few extra expenses on ur tax return hardly a crime which warrants serious prison time


There's more to it than that, of course you can spin it to sound like the guys a hero if you take only a shallow skim of the picture. 

If you really wanted to see a captive breeding system work, then you'd be supoorting that institute "Tarantulas de mexico" which are captive breeding Brachypelma from known localities and of solid ID. 

Sven took hobby material and imported it cheaper (by breaking the law), which is essentially aiming at flooding (I doubt he did it in enough numbers, but the point is the same) the market with cheap hobby tat of questionable origin, and at the same time taking away incentive to support the (costlier, and *legal*) captive breeding efforts from the TDM group. 

Just apply that same scenario to Avics and you'd understand why the TDM group is the far better option to support over hobby material, that frankly might look like B.auratum or whatever, but could be genetically stagnant or hybridised, etc. 

It's not crime of the century but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished for it. Same as the notion that other people commit similar crimes - for all we know they are waiting to prosecute them as well. 

I mean, to illustrate it plainly, if we followed the logic there we wouldn't prosecute Sven because Murder is a worse crime that happens frequently, and also because other people are smuggling and Sven shouldn't be prosecuted until they are. Sounds a bit unrealistic don't ya think? :lol:


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

I may add if there is enought support for things like the TDM group then we may see the same happening in more closed countries when you consider there were very few Australian species in the hobby until legal captive bred stuff came over from Steve the same thing could happen with places like Brazil and that way we will get to keep far more species then what are being smuggled out at present.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Ive not heard Sven moan about the charges, so Im not sure where that view comes from. For me, whilst I accept his guilt and it was obvious he was avoiding regulations, its one of compassion. He didn't steal these Ts from their country of origin, nor did he sell them back to their country of origin. He captive bred them to supply a demand which isnt being met by the Mexican licensed exporters.
The papers required seem to suggest low cost so Im not sure why he didnt use these, rather foolish IMO. But the papers and US authorities seem to have come to certain assumptions eg. the amount of money he has gained from sales and the possible prison term which we should remember is the maximum possible.
I don't support him because he's right, or done the right thing. I support him because I have compassion for the man and his family, simples!

@jkb please note they were not sold back to country of origin and nor are B. smithi endangered.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Ive not heard Sven moan about the charges, so Im not sure where that view comes from. For me, whilst I accept his guilt and it was obvious he was avoiding regulations, its one of compassion. He didn't steal these Ts from their country of origin, nor did he sell them back to their country of origin. He captive bred them to supply a demand which isnt being met by the Mexican licensed exporters.
> The papers required seem to suggest low cost so Im not sure why he didnt use these, rather foolish IMO. But the papers and US authorities seem to have come to certain assumptions eg. the amount of money he has gained from sales and the possible prison term which we should remember is the maximum possible.
> I don't support him because he's right, or done the right thing. I support him because I have compassion for the man and his family, simples!
> 
> @jkb please note they were not sold back to country of origin and nor are B. smithi endangered.


Agree completely with you Pete


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

> I don't support him because he's right, or done the right thing. I support him because I have compassion for the man and his family, simples!


thats what i was trying to say! :lol2:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Well that's why I read I thought they were from Mexico being so close to america its like England and Scotland


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> I don't support him because he's right, or done the right thing. I support him because I have compassion for the man and his family, simples!
> 
> @jkb please note they were not sold back to country of origin and nor are B. smithi endangered.


Fair enough - I'm not actually against people liking the dude. What I find confusing is that people seem to either dance around the issue or plain support his actions as "no big deal" sort of thing. 

As Bill said, if people were dead set against stuff like this and more open to embrace things like TDM then we'd probably have more openness from countries like Brazil and Australia, and we'd not be tarred in such a bad light in places like India. 

If Sven gets a hefty fine, whatever and it makes others question what they are doing and why, then it's a win. I think people need to question themselves more often - is this right? Should we be doing this? Should I act more responsible as an ambassador of the hobby (we all are, like it or not)?


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## guruphil (Oct 16, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> Well that's why I read I thought they were from Mexico being so close to america its like England and Scotland


Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. It's a bit like Russia and China


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

guruphil said:


> Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. It's a bit like Russia and China


Yeh but u can drive across u get what I'm saying esp as it could have been.just a few miles from the border for all i no also when I send endagerd I ment listed on cites which i assum means threatend same thing almost , 
And Phil It must make a difference hen e why u beed no paper work to import them here yet u do to there


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> Yeh but u can drive across u get what I'm saying esp as it could have been.just a few miles from the border for all i no also when I send endagerd I ment listed on cites which i assum means threatend same thing almost ,
> And Phil It must make a difference hen e why u beed no paper work to import them here yet u do to there


we need the exact same paperwork when exporting CITES listed animals outside of the EU

for instance, if you sent a single P.imperator scorpion to Norway (just an example) you would also be guilty of Trafficking Endangered Species.....it's one of the few perks of being in the EU that we can get stuff from France, Spain, Germany etc (although even then it's still a grey area)


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

The one everyone breaks from my understanding is sending live animals via normal airmail, from what iv read animals even inverts should travel via air only as cargo packed in accordance with IATA regs and with a clear manifest so that the contents can be checked by a airport vet/animal unit as it moves.

When was the last time anyone buying a few slings or stick ova from Germany did that. :crazy:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Oderus said:


> The one everyone breaks from my understanding is sending live animals via normal airmail, from what iv read animals even inverts should travel via air only as cargo packed in accordance with IATA regs and with a clear manifest so that the contents can be checked by a airport vet/animal unit as it moves.
> 
> When was the last time anyone buying a few slings or stick ova from Germany did that. :crazy:


yup, exactly


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