# royals



## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

im going to be getting a few more royals next year, maybe at hamm to breed when theyre adults..was just hoping someone could let me know whether these are correct --

mojave x mojave = 50% mojaves, 25% blue eyed leucistics, 25% normals

spider x pastel = 25% normals, 25% pastels, 25% spiders, 25% bumblebees

also, is how would you make a albino spider? albino het spider x albino het spider? and a albino pied? and is there such thing as a caramel albion spider, and a caramel albion pied? and how would you make an ivory? 

sorry for all the questions..

thanks

Matt :smile:


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

bump..


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

bump..


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

%s look right

Albino spider could be made by mating albino x spider, then keeping back a spider het albino. you can then mate that to either albino (to get 25% albino spiders, 25% albino, 25% spider het albino, 25% normal het albino) or het albino (similar morphs but more normals, less chance of the others).

Caramel albino spider and caramel albino pied are perfectly possible.

Ivories are from yellowbelly x yellowbelly. statistically 1/4 ivory from that


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

ok thanks alot..really really helps ..

so if i wanted an albino spider in the first generation, id cross an albino with a spider het albino?

and to make caramel albino spiders, id cross a caramel albino with a spider het caramel albino?

again, thanks


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

while you ave the numbers about right theres something I don't know if you can see..


take spider x pastel, 25% bumble bee. thats right BUT that does nto mean one in every four will be a bumble bee, you may never make one, you make get a clutch full. you can tell which one is more likely. This is on a 25% snake. Some of the double recessives you're talking ab out are 1 in 16 or 1 in 24 chances, some breeders can cross mojave's together forever and never get a single blue eyed leucistic.

Bob clarke has many thousands of animals breeding each year yet didn't produce enough leucies to sell anywhere enar the amount you would imagine.

Not trying to say don't try, it's just your approach seems very analitical/unrealistic and despite the fact you've said it's not many times seems to be only about the money. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but without a grasp of the facts I mentioned earlier it's hard ot do it right.

Lets stick with mojaves.

This year to buy a pair of hatchling mojaves it would have cost you between £800-2400 on average.

Recon on three to four years to get them upto weght, 2-3 for the male so you'll get a few mojaves out of him in the mean time.

By this point the price of mojaves will be significantly less so in order to actually make much money you'll be relying on that lesser % snake to pop out. It may happen or it may not. Say mojaves in that time head to around the £300 mark, that's a fair few snakes to sell (low clutch numbers) before your mojaves have even paid for themselves.

Taking cinnamon pastels as an example.

Genetically proven by graziani in 2002, hatchlings went on the market at at about $5000, this then shot upto about $17 000 a hatchling a couple of years later when other breeders began doing interesting things with theirs, graziani couldn't produce them fast enough at this time. A short time later here we are with cinnie hatchlings struggling to break £500. Think about it and we are still only talking a couple of breeding generations after the origingal snake was geneticall proven! $17 000 dollar peak price down to under $1000 over there now. In seven years. Some of those original CB02 graz snakes will only have had 2-3 litters!

Looking forward to some of your double recessives:

Again whikle I think you've grasped what makes what you fail to see much else. some of those snakes (baring some lunatic selling visual morphs with amazing hets) are 4-10 year breeding projects at the end of which you're still only looking at a low probabilty snake.

Most of it is in the alp of the gods, it's not simply a matter of looking at percentages and figuring out how much money you will make.

Mason


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## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

Do the %s really work out like that? Thought it was just luck on how many you got of each one


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

shiva&kaa123 said:


> Do the %s really work out like that? Thought it was just luck on how many you got of each one


it is, but thats the theory you work on.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

shiva&kaa123 said:


> Do the %s really work out like that? Thought it was just luck on how many you got of each one


those percentages are essentially a probability, that is the concept I didn't think he had grasped and was trying to explain.

You could breed spiders and pastels forever and you may never make a bumblebee, you could drop lucky on your first clutch. You need to see more than just numbers.

Mason


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> while you ave the numbers about right theres something I don't know if you can see..
> 
> 
> take spider x pastel, 25% bumble bee. thats right BUT that does nto mean one in every four will be a bumble bee, you may never make one, you make get a clutch full. you can tell which one is more likely. This is on a 25% snake. Some of the double recessives you're talking ab out are 1 in 16 or 1 in 24 chances, some breeders can cross mojave's together forever and never get a single blue eyed leucistic.
> ...


Im glad someone pointed this out. I was being lazy :lol2: :no1:

Thanks Mason


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

I had to stop myself, could have gone on but I sense it's all wasted...


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

Forgetting your high end multi gene morphs for a second. I was at a breeders last week who had mated a pastel x normal and came out with a clutch full of normals. Not a single pastel in there.
Thats not unheard of and its just pastels. You cant expect to be able to breed lots of fantastic morphs in the next couple of years.
It will take a long time to establish breeding groups and much longer to prove them out.

What happens if you blow loads of money on a female caramel albino hatchling and it turns out shes a dud? She wont breed and suddenly you are 1 snake short for your project. Can you afford to take that loss AND have to wait another few years for the next female you buy to get to breeding weight?


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

thankyou mason and tops, i realised this..

im not breeding them for an income, just ba bit of momey on the side - because i love snakes..if they fail to breed or produce anything other than normals or what have you, so be it..ill still gain experience and will love what im doin in the mean time


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Fair play and best of luck then.

Mason


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Numbers look right to me, but mostly it seems to come down to luck at the end of the day 

Don't think I would have patience for royal breeding, with how long it takes to get adults up to par and then the small clutches... I have a lot of respect for anyone who has the patience to deal with royals


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

lol Athravan..thanks for checkin it anyway


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