# URGENT Leopard Gecko Pregnancy Question - Egg Binding?



## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Two weeks ago, on the recommendation of my vet, I started breeding my young female leopard gecko who will be turning 14 months old next week. This was after she became very bloated and started losing weight in her tail - she looked very disproportionate and uncomfortable. The vet told me that she was gravid and that it would benefit her health to breed her, so naturally I put her in with my male gecko, after which she started to eat again, became less bloated, and started putting weight back in her tail.

Today, however, I decided to check her to see if they had mated and if any eggs were forming and I noticed something very unusual...it looks as though she has more than two eggs and I was wondering if this could be egg binding? I bred my other two females last year and had no problems with them at all, they collectively laid 24 eggs, all of which except one clutch were very healthy and hatched without a trouble. I do have a little bit of experience in breeding my geckos and haven't had any problems before, thus why I'm concerned as to why it looks like she's carrying so many eggs.

I hope these pictures help



















I would very much appreciate some helpful replies to ease my concern :C

Thanks in advance!


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## Madhouse5 (Jun 6, 2011)

myself i would use another vet to breed a gecko that young is not good for her at all i do not breed any of my females that are under 2 years old , and to breed a gecko that has had weight loss is not a very good idea there are loads of reasons that your gecko can be losing weight the main one is temp in the viv if house in a group bullying if the group contains a male being pestered to mate, i would get some advice from a better reptile vet and take it from there 

Paul


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Madhouse5 said:


> myself i would use another vet to breed a gecko that young is not good for her at all i do not breed any of my females that are under 2 years old , and to breed a gecko that has had weight loss is not a very good idea there are loads of reasons that your gecko can be losing weight the main one is temp in the viv if house in a group bullying if the group contains a male being pestered to mate, i would get some advice from a better reptile vet and take it from there
> 
> Paul



Thank you for your quick reply!

Usually I wouldn't breed a gecko this young, it's just because I was advised to do so by someone who is meant to be an expert. The weight isn't the problem, she has a healthy tail and she's quite an eating machine. None of my geckos have ever had weight loss problems, so I don't think the temperature of the tank is an issue. Plus, when it comes to this female in particular, I think the bloating in the stomach from being gravid made her look quite disproportionate when actually her tail was still a healthy weight.

I was wondering if you had any ideas about the pictures I put up?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

It looks like there may be eggs developing but some of the lower white areas look to be huge fat pads. You said that she's quite the eating machine and she does look a little out of proportion in the pictures. You may want to reduce the feed or change what you're feeding before the fat pads become a problem with health and reproduction. 

Agree with Paul though, I really think the vet should have done more tests before telling you to mate her. Those symptoms could also indicate parasite burdens, impaction, growths, diseased ovaries and other infections.

If you're concerned about egg binding then make sure she has plenty of suitable lay spots ready.


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

vgorst said:


> It looks like there may be eggs developing but some of the lower white areas look to be huge fat pads. You said that she's quite the eating machine and she does look a little out of proportion in the pictures. You may want to reduce the feed or change what you're feeding before the fat pads become a problem with health and reproduction.
> 
> Agree with Paul though, I really think the vet should have done more tests before telling you to mate her. Those symptoms could also indicate parasite burdens, impaction, growths, diseased ovaries and other infections.
> 
> If you're concerned about egg binding then make sure she has plenty of suitable lay spots ready.


Thanks for the helpful reply 

The vet did do quite a lot of tests - he didn't just look at her and tell me to mate her straight away. I left her with him for a few hours and he checked for parasites and did lots of other tests and he said she was otherwise healthy.

She's not with the male anymore, once I saw the eggs developing I separated her from him so that he doesn't cause her anymore unnecessary stress, and I have given her a cosy little laying box for when she's ready to lay, so hopefully that will help her?

I try to make sure my geckos have a varied diet, from locusts, crickets and mealworms to the occasional waxworm as a treat. I will stop feeding her waxworms and just stick to the hoppers and mealworms instead, and reduce the amount that I am feeding her? Is there anything else I can do to help her?

Thanks in advance


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

If I were you I'd be taking her to the vet ASAP just to be sure they aren't eggs.
Vgorst is normally spot on with help and advise so I am in no way contradicting.

I just think a quick X-ray will be needed to make sure they aren't eggs then you needn't worry anymore.

One of my girls was fasting so I put a male in her viv but DIDN'T let them mate and two days later she was back to her old self.
If it happens next season, maybe try that.

A lot of my girls have been laying all season and I have never seen anything like that on even the greediest gecko.

I a highly anxious person and I do spend a hell of a lot of time at the vet because I over worry, but that would have me very concerned.

Even if it is fat pads, there could be something underlying that's causing her to lay down that much fat on her abdomen, and a fat gecko is not healthy.

Good luck, I hope she lays okay for you!
Keep us posted.


PS. Sorry if that came across as shouty or anything, I'm in a lot of pain ATM, and it wasn't meant to.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

Looks egg bound to me, I would take her to a different vet preferably but if not possible then the same vet as she will need treating.


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## Denbyc12 (Jul 17, 2012)

I would take get to the vets looks egg bound and this can be fatal if not treated


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> If I were you I'd be taking her to the vet ASAP just to be sure they aren't eggs.
> Vgorst is normally spot on with help and advise so I am in no way contradicting.
> 
> I just think a quick X-ray will be needed to make sure they aren't eggs then you needn't worry anymore.
> ...


Don't worry, I didn't see that as shouty in any way, I hope you feel better soon.

I worry quite a lot about my geckos if I think something is wrong as well so I understand. I will take her to the vets to be on the safe side and see if they can shed some light on the situation. I'm sure if it was something to do with fat pads my vet would have pointed it out to me because I only took her to the vets 2 weeks ago...they can't form that quickly can they? I will be very upset if I've been given bad advice by him and caused more trouble for her considering that I only mated her on the advice that it would help her 

How did you stop your geckos from mating if they're in the same viv? Sounds like a good idea for if or when this happens again.

Nice hair in your picture by the way - mine is exactly the same colour! haha

Thanks for the advice!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

chloecrumbs said:


> Don't worry, I didn't see that as shouty in any way, I hope you feel better soon.
> 
> I worry quite a lot about my geckos if I think something is wrong as well so I understand. I will take her to the vets to be on the safe side and see if they can shed some light on the situation. I'm sure if it was something to do with fat pads my vet would have pointed it out to me because I only took her to the vets 2 weeks ago...they can't form that quickly can they? I will be very upset if I've been given bad advice by him and caused more trouble for her considering that I only mated her on the advice that it would help her
> 
> ...


Haha thanks, it's blue at the moment 

I let the male do his vibratey tail majiggy and let him do the flirty nipping, then just picked him up before her properly latched onto her neck.
He's quite a gentle guy so he does the flirty nipping gently and lets go between each nip, so it's easy to take him out.

He was a bit grouchy/ restless for a few hours but just fine that night and stuffed his piggy face and the female did the same a few days later.
No idea why it worked, it just did.
The female is question is a pet only, but she'd been laying loads of dud eggs and not eating anything at all for a good two months, and had lost a considerable amount of weight. Figured it was worth a go and it worked; had it not, she would have been down the vet.
She's back up to like 94g now. Lol.

Had to make sure it was the right male though, if I had used any other boy it might have been more difficult.

If I were you, and you HAD to see the same vet again, let him do X-rays and ask to see them; even someone who's never seen egg bound X-rays will know if it is that, calcium in the shells of the eggs will be easy to see so there would be no way for him to worm his way out; explain to him that you are very upset with his bad advice that has potentially left your pets life threatened, and that you feel he should fix the problem free of charge.
It should be in his notes that he suggested you mated her, so you should have enough to have a go at that.
That's what I'd be doing anyway, kicking up a bit of a fuss so the waiting room can hear. He won't want his reputation soiled.
Just make sure you stay on the respectable side of angry, just slightly elevated voice and no cursing.

Obviously if he refuses, he still has a legal obligation to treat an animal who's life is in danger, so he'll have to treat her regardless. If you have to pay, I would personally be taking it further, putting in a written complaint; especially if she does lose her life.



I think I'm getting a bit OTT.


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> Haha thanks, it's blue at the moment
> 
> I let the male do his vibratey tail majiggy and let him do the flirty nipping, then just picked him up before her properly latched onto her neck.
> He's quite a gentle guy so he does the flirty nipping gently and lets go between each nip, so it's easy to take him out.
> ...


I don't think that method would work for me because I'd have to keep an eye on them all the time, and I can't stay up all the way through the night to make sure they're not getting up to anything ;O With my other two females he wasn't that persistent as he is a bit of a lazy sod and they would tell him what was what. A whack in the face with their tail would sort him right out ahah.

All of my geckos are pets - I know mating puts a lot of strain on the females and I love them too much to put them through it. Thus why I only did it the once, would never of thought of doing it again until I was advised to do so -.-

The vets in question is actually one that my friends mum works at, and has done for many years. The vet I saw there is a reptile specialist and when he checked my gecko he did do x-rays, so I can safely say that I have trust in the vets that I am going to. I don't really want to get myself worked up or start pointing any fingers until I know for sure what the problem is. I'm quite an assertive person so I will make my feelings known if there are egg binding complications and I am left unhappy with the advice I have been given by him, and if this is the case I will definitely find a new vets for the next time that I have an issue (which I hopefully won't). 

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions


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## angie69 (Mar 20, 2011)

*gecko help*

hi if u go on barkinggeckos on facebook this pic has come up and they r all saying shes egg bind so u need to see vet asap hope this helps


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

angie69 said:


> hi if u go on barkinggeckos on facebook this pic has come up and they r all saying shes egg bind so u need to see vet asap hope this helps


Hi, I don't have facebook so I can't see what's been said...has my picture been used in particular? Could you maybe send me a link so I can see what they are saying.

I got up early and called the vets but the reptile specialist is on holiday till the 12th, I called a different vets but unfortunately they are closed because it is a sunday, I will be ringing first thing tomorrow morning and making an appointment for her to be seen immediately.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Id personally say she looks rather egg bound as i've never seen fatty lumps like that before..

I've had a leo in the past (around 6 years ago) who became egg bound, the vets did their best and saved her. 

If you leave it, it can and does normally become fatal.

I'd advise going else where, and sending the original vet the bill. Its never ever a good idea to breed any animal, be it a gecko a dog or a cat. Animals or humans, dont NEED to breed.

Good luck x


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

freekygeeky said:


> Id personally say she looks rather egg bound as i've never seen fatty lumps like that before..
> 
> I've had a leo in the past (around 6 years ago) who became egg bound, the vets did their best and saved her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice, I was skeptical about it being a fatty lump because it wasn't there before. 

As i've said, the previous vet is on holiday till the 12th so I won't be seeing him this time round and the other vets is closed until tomorrow. I Will be calling first thing in the morning and making an appointment for her to be seen tomorrow. I will then speak to the original vet when he is back from holiday and make a complaint if it turns out that she is egg bound.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

chloecrumbs said:


> Thank you for the advice, I was skeptical about it being a fatty lump because it wasn't there before.
> 
> As i've said, the previous vet is on holiday till the 12th so I won't be seeing him this time round and the other vets is closed until tomorrow. I Will be calling first thing in the morning and making an appointment for her to be seen tomorrow. I will then speak to the original vet when he is back from holiday and make a complaint if it turns out that she is egg bound.


Good luck, and let us know how it goes. 

If it does turn out to be egg binding, them keep the receipts etc. As it won't be cheap! And 100% take it to your other vet. It was a very very silly thing to suggest. Most vets try to stop people breeding animals, not breed them!


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

freekygeeky said:


> Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
> 
> If it does turn out to be egg binding, them keep the receipts etc. As it won't be cheap! And 100% take it to your other vet. It was a very very silly thing to suggest. Most vets try to stop people breeding animals, not breed them!


I always keep my receipts obviously 

And of course I will post after I've taken her and let everyone know what's happening with her. Breeding her is the last thing I wanted to do but when someone who is meant to be an expert advises you to do it then you'd obviously trust their judgment. If it's egg binding I've hopefully caught it early and she can be helped as she doesn't look very uncomfortable and she's still quite active and walking around so I'm guessing that's a good sign of that.

Thanks for your help!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

chloecrumbs said:


> Hi, I don't have facebook so I can't see what's been said...has my picture been used in particular? Could you maybe send me a link so I can see what they are saying.
> 
> I got up early and called the vets but the reptile specialist is on holiday till the 12th, I called a different vets but unfortunately they are closed because it is a sunday, I will be ringing first thing tomorrow morning and making an appointment for her to be seen immediately.


Hey, it was me that posted the photos on the group to get you more advice as I wasn't 100% sure and that group is full of lovely, knowledgeable and friendly keepers.
People on there don't flame at people or bully like some on here, so I thought it would be best for you to help you get some more constructive advice before the keyboard warriors found this thread.

No one has been slating you or slagging you off, so don't worry 
In fact everyone hopes for the best and knows you're doing the right thing.

All the best for tomorrow, lots of positive thoughts being sent your way!


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> Hey, it was me that posted the photos on the group to get you more advice as I wasn't 100% sure and that group is full of lovely, knowledgeable and friendly keepers.
> People on there don't flame at people or bully like some on here, so I thought it would be best for you to help you get some more constructive advice before the keyboard warriors found this thread.
> 
> No one has been slating you or slagging you off, so don't worry
> ...


Thank you for doing that, that was very kind and thoughtful of you  It's good to know that there are actually nice people on the internet! haha

I've called three different vets in the past hour and the best I can get is 11am tomorrow with an exotics specialist because they're either not around today or on holiday. I'm a bit annoyed because I wanted to be able to get up and get her seen straight away this morning but it's best to see someone who knows what they're talking about and can get the problem sorted as quickly as possible. Will probably get myself down there earlier than 11 to see if I can get her seen quicker.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

chloecrumbs said:


> Thank you for doing that, that was very kind and thoughtful of you  It's good to know that there are actually nice people on the internet! haha
> 
> I've called three different vets in the past hour and the best I can get is 11am tomorrow with an exotics specialist because they're either not around today or on holiday. I'm a bit annoyed because I wanted to be able to get up and get her seen straight away this morning but it's best to see someone who knows what they're talking about and can get the problem sorted as quickly as possible. Will probably get myself down there earlier than 11 to see if I can get her seen quicker.


You did well, i can never get one that quickly!!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Any updates?
I hope it all went well.
xx


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> Any updates?
> I hope it all went well.
> xx


Hi, Sorry I didn't post yesterday, I didn't have much time after all the running around I had to do ahah but so far it looks like good news. I picked her up around 5 after she had her x rays which look like this...










Looks like there are only two eggs forming and not three like the pictures I posted showed. I've been giving her nice warm baths to help encourage her to lay them, so hopefully she won't have any trouble passing them.

The vet who I saw wants to get a second opinion from one of the other exotic vets who was actually away on holiday (is it national exotic vet holiday week or something?!) so she's emailed him the x-ray she took and the photographs I put up on here, as well as requested the x-rays and all the info from the last time I took her to the other vets for comparison. She said she'd give me a call as soon as he gets back to her, and I also will be taking my gecko back to see him when he's back from holiday.


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

freekygeeky said:


> You did well, i can never get one that quickly!!


I have no idea how I managed it either!


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Wow! That's a huge surprise!
I don't envy her trying to push those out!
Hopefully everything will rights itself!


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Rawwwrchazli said:


> Wow! That's a huge surprise!
> I don't envy her trying to push those out!
> Hopefully everything will rights itself!


Thanks 

Didn't hear from the vet today so I think I will ring tomorrow to see if she has managed to get in contact with the other vet.


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## Denbyc12 (Jul 17, 2012)

Keep us updated


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

chloecrumbs said:


> Hi, Sorry I didn't post yesterday, I didn't have much time after all the running around I had to do ahah but so far it looks like good news. I picked her up around 5 after she had her x rays which look like this...
> 
> image
> 
> ...


How odd!! It really looks like more than two in the photo ... odd odd odd!!


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

Just heard back from the vet I saw the other day and she managed to get in contact with the other exotic vet who is in agreement that the x-rays are normal.

Freckles has been in her laying box all day, and this is the first time I've seen her in there so it looks like she's preparing to lay her eggs (hopefully). I'm just going to leave her so I don't cause her an unnecessary stress and hopefully she will be able to lay them without any trouble  

The vet also said to call her next week at some point to let her know how she's doing and if I have any other concerns...I feel so much more at ease


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## Denbyc12 (Jul 17, 2012)

It's so far going good for you then . Let's hope she pops them buggers out


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## chloecrumbs (Aug 3, 2013)

WE HAVE EGGS!

Can't tell anyone how relieved I am...or how peeved that I had to pay an arm and a leg to find out that nothing was actually wrong with her. But I guess it could have been something a lot worse so I must look at the positives!

Here are some pictures for your enjoyment...



















Not sure if they are fertile, they look the right shape but they were a bit squishy...having said that, I have no idea when she laid them, but I knew she was going to because she was making a right mess of her enclosure and throwing a load of substrate around the place.

Now to call the vet and tell her the good news


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Hoorahhhhh!!!!!

Congratulations!!!!


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