# Dwarf bosc monitors



## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Hey, just wondering if anyone has ever come across a dwarf bosc monitor? and if there would be any particular reason for the bosc being dwarfed (in regards to care or setups) or if it's just one of those random chance things to happen occasionally through breeding or something?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated  and if anyone owns one?  

Got a 2 year old bosc who is roughly the size of a male adult leopard gecko. He is a healthy lil guy who eats, sheds and poops fine and the setup is all correct in regards to bosc care. He is active and we usually see him exploring about the viv in the evenings  He just never seemed to grow any bigger! He is cared for correctly and shows no signs of unhappiness, malnutrition or neglect 

Hence the wondering if it's something that has happened before with boscs and if anyone has any dwarfed boscs or other usually large lizards that are dwarfed? 

I shall add some pictures of him in a bit  thanks x


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

YoshiHCG said:


> Got a *2 year old *bosc who is roughly the size of a male adult leopard gecko.


You sure someone's not painted a leo ?

Even small one(dwarf) would grow somewhat.

Think you've been done :whistling2:


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## MrJsk (Jul 29, 2012)

A "dwarf" bosc is like.. 3ft ish

Any pics of your bosc?


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Veyron said:


> You sure someone's not painted a leo ?
> 
> Even small one(dwarf) would grow somewhat.
> 
> Think you've been done :whistling2:


Definitely not been done, he's a bosc for sure, here are a few pics of him


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

Maybe younger than 2 years old? If not then not a clue very nice bosc though


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## MrJsk (Jul 29, 2012)

YoshiHCG said:


> Definitely not been done, he's a bosc for sure, here are a few pics of him
> 
> image
> image
> ...


OMG he is cutee :flrt:

Somethings got to be wrong though for him to be that size at that age.. Maybe it's like something related to genetics or nutrition from when he was young? But as long as he is happy and healthy then I suppose that is all that really matters!


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

He's defo 2 years old, yeah we have no idea either, just one of those things but yeah I agree as long as he's happy n healthy which he is . Would b interesting to see of anyone else has a dwarf bosc!!


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

I am sitting here in complete awe right now.

That is not a baby, the colour, head structure, foot structure & snout all indicate that this is a mature Bosc.

You have a real rarity there, even a stunted animal would be bigger than that.


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## MrJsk (Jul 29, 2012)

Infernalis said:


> I am sitting here in complete awe right now.
> 
> That is not a baby, the colour, head structure, foot structure & snout all indicate that this is a mature Bosc.
> 
> You have a real rarity there, even a stunted animal would be bigger than that.


I thought that about head structure too because I see this happen with my Bosc. 

BIN as a baby..









And BIN now (only just under 2months from when that 1st pic was taken), you can see how his head and face have changed..


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Infernalis said:


> I am sitting here in complete awe right now.
> 
> That is not a baby, the colour, head structure, foot structure & snout all indicate that this is a mature Bosc.
> 
> You have a real rarity there, even a stunted animal would be bigger than that.


 
Im going to have to correct you there wayne bud... 

I have seen a smaller stunted bosc than that. 

That one looks healthyish from the pictures...

It does look like a type of dwarfism. 

Have you grown that fella up from a baby or bought him recently?


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## Spreebok (Jul 4, 2012)

I love seeing wee little dwarf oddities, and he is a handsome chappy! I have a dwarf butter corn myself, 1 year old and barely 20g, still a bloody shoelace. Got a Fire that hatched a few days later, well over 100g and lovely and chunky. Both eat like horses lol!


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

MrJsk said:


> A "dwarf" bosc is like.. 3ft ish
> 
> Any pics of your bosc?


 
:lol2: 

Nah man an average bosc is 3ft a huge bosc is 4' 

Contrary to popular belief boscs do not regularly hit 4'.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Hey guys  thanks for the kind replies, owned peaches since he was a baby, quite amazed that he could be a real rarity. Btw just to note please do not reuse these pictures without prior permission thanks


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

YoshiHCG said:


> Hey guys  thanks for the kind replies, owned peaches since he was a baby, quite amazed that he could be a real rarity. Btw just to note please do not reuse these pictures without prior permission thanks


Should have watermarked them then.


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## LeoBoris (Jul 21, 2012)

If you can breed and make more dwarf bosc's I would have one!

I love Bosc's and my mum/dad does just can't have one due to the size they grow. I'd be quite happy with a dwarf!


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Should have watermarked them then.


Yeah not sure whether to take them down and watermark them, as long as people ask I don't mind them using them.


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Im going to have to correct you there wayne bud...
> 
> I have seen a smaller stunted bosc than that.
> 
> ...


 Maybe you have seen a stunted one Shane, I have not.:notworthy:

The build of this little beastie is quite unique, stout arms, thick neck, a wee bit chubby, but not obese, thick forehead.

Almost like a dwarf person build.

I am thinking a well cared for runt or genetic fluke.


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

he's adorable!!!

i agree, he doesnt just look young or small, he looks like a real dwarf with his stubby features. 

can i have him...... pleasey.....? :flrt:


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

Very nice bosc which i said earlier :2thumb: Would a dwarf bosc still need the same size viv as a normal bosc?


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

TommyR said:


> Very nice bosc which i said earlier :2thumb: Would a dwarf bosc still need the same size viv as a normal bosc?


The logical answer would be no.

However, the last thing anyone wants is to see people take it wrongly and keep it in a fish tank.

A carefully thought out enclosure that offered the humidity gradients and proper temperature gradient would be just fine.

Myself, I would still use a 8x4x4 since a nicely heated bosc is an active animal, and I am a firm believer in allowing them space to run around.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

SilverSky said:


> he's adorable!!!
> 
> i agree, he doesnt just look young or small, he looks like a real dwarf with his stubby features.
> 
> can i have him...... pleasey.....? :flrt:


He is just a little bit adorable isn't he, can be so grumpy sometimes though  but cause he's so tiny his bites don't hurt at all! 

Haha unfortunately this lil guy isn't for salee and for welfare reasons we won't be breeding him, but will keep you guys updated about him?


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

grumpy is nice. that's a sign of good health.


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> grumpy is nice. that's a sign of good health.


My missus should live way past 100 then :devil:


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

aww hes lovely and nice to hear he has that lovely bosc attitude too. Bet your proud of him and him being a rareity is just another bonus to you.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Infernalis said:


> Maybe you have seen a stunted one Shane, I have not.:notworthy:
> 
> The build of this little beastie is quite unique, stout arms, thick neck, a wee bit chubby, but not obese, thick forehead.
> 
> ...



Yup thats what im thinking wayne it does have a certain Look about it that suggests dwarfism.

purely out of interest how are you keeping him? 

Thanks S.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

*viv*

in a 3ft by 1.5 by 1.5 ft viv uv light heatmatt hide


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

mitsi said:


> aww hes lovely and nice to hear he has that lovely bosc attitude too. Bet your proud of him and him being a rareity is just another bonus to you.


Haha he definitely has the bosc attitude  we don't love him any different for being a rarity  he's such a cute lil guy


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

just out of interest how are you creating a basking area for him and what are your temps and what substrate and depth do you have. Only asking because in a viv the size you say, i would imagine it would be hard to create correct temps, humidity, and have a deep enough substrate for him.


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

mitsi said:


> just out of interest how are you creating a basking area for him and what are your temps and what substrate and depth do you have. Only asking because in a viv the size you say, i would imagine it would be hard to create correct temps, humidity, and have a deep enough substrate for him.


And the witch hunt begins :lol2:

Honestly though, the words 'uv and heat mat' did worry me.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Veyron said:


> And the witch hunt begins :lol2:
> 
> Honestly though, the words 'uv and heat mat' did worry me.


 
i wasnt having a go just wondering that was all, to be honest i was surprised no one else had asked.


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

mitsi said:


> *i wasnt having a go* just wondering that was all, to be honest i was surprised no one else had asked.


I know mate : victory: 

It's just the usual response, but people surely know how things should be kept....so they either do it (or ask first), or never bother. :bash:


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Im going to have to correct you there wayne bud...
> 
> I have seen a smaller stunted bosc than that.
> 
> ...


That must be the one that Dazza showed us a good while back Shane if im correct that is as i remember him posting it :2thumb:



Infernalis said:


> Maybe you have seen a stunted one Shane, I have not.:notworthy:
> 
> The build of this little beastie is quite unique, stout arms, thick neck, a wee bit chubby, but not obese, thick forehead.
> 
> ...


That i'd agree with , most boscs would be that size at 2 to 3 months old
:2thumb:


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

Natalie, he is sooooo cute! :flrt:

Definately a bit on the small side for a 2 year old. My juveniles are that size at around 4 months old!
But he's looking to be in good health, his build does look similar to dwarfism but its not something i have ever come across in savannahs so you do have a rarity there!

Hope you're good chic


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Noofy said:


> Natalie, he is sooooo cute! :flrt:
> 
> Definately a bit on the small side for a 2 year old. My juveniles are that size at around 4 months old!
> But he's looking to be in good health, his build does look similar to dwarfism but its not something i have ever come across in savannahs so you do have a rarity there!
> ...


Haha thanks Fliq  I think we do have a midget on our hands here  he's well cared for and in response to the setup questions he actually lives at my other halfs house (as he's my other halfs bosc just I post the pics etc and share the love haha) so you'll have to wait til he's online or I see him next before I can clarify those things but he is cared for in the correct manner for a bosc and hasn't had anything out of the norm in the care of a bosc . He is just one of those rare oddities that come to light every blue moon hehe. He is healthy and active (and fiesty too) so it's not malnourishment or any form of setup neglect . His viv is smaller than a normal bosc of 2 years old because he is so small! hehe, he does fine in the viv, we usually see him exploring or lazing about on top of a rock 'sunbathing' lol. My partner Damien has had reptiles for many many years now of all shapes and sizes and animal welfare is always a top priority so research and care always goes into the setups of our animals to make sure they are as good as can be  :2thumb:

I'm good btw Fliq  hope you, sam and the bump are doing good too and have settled ok!  Love looking at your pics on instagram, those boscs you hatched are beeeaaautiful, well done  btw check out my other thread on snake pictures, would love you to see my new carpet python nova as I know you have some yourselves she's a beauty and i'm rather proud of her   :no1:


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

YoshiHCG said:


> My partner Damien


Can I just, your partner has an amazing, sexy, masculine name :flrt:


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Veyron said:


> Can I just, your partner has an amazing, sexy, masculine name :flrt:


:no1:Haha, slightly off topic  but i'll let you off 'cause he is rather amazing and sexy and masculine :blush: but I shan't keep on otherwise sick buckets might be needed...

I do love the man haha, good thing we both share a massive love of reptiles  one of the things that makes me love him is how much he does actually give a crap about his reps and makes that little extra effort to ensure they are cared for in the best manner possible  hence why I want to make sure people don't get the wrong idea and think Peaches dwarfism is due to improper care. I totally understand people will question the setup and care, anyone would and thats fine  we're happy to answer the questions but we can assure you all that on this occasion he's just one of those beautiful cute freaks of nature


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## monitor mad (Jun 16, 2008)

Veyron said:


> Can I just, your partner has an amazing, sexy, masculine name :flrt:


 AHHH so your the partner :lol2:: victory:


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

YoshiHCG said:


> :no1:Haha, slightly off topic  but i'll let you off 'cause he is rather amazing and sexy and masculine :blush: but I shan't keep on otherwise sick buckets might be needed...
> 
> I do love the man haha, good thing we both share a massive love of reptiles  one of the things that makes me love him is how much he does actually give a crap about his reps and makes that little extra effort to ensure they are cared for in the best manner possible  hence why I want to make sure people don't get the wrong idea and think Peaches dwarfism is due to improper care. I totally understand people will question the setup and care, anyone would and thats fine  we're happy to answer the questions but we can assure you all that on this occasion he's just one of those beautiful cute freaks of nature


Yeah, nobody thinks it's because of his care....if it was bad enough to make a 2 year old bosc *that small*...it would be dead. Obviously something else going on there : victory:

I only mentioned your partners names cos it's mine too :no1:


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

monitor mad said:


> AHHH so your the partner :lol2:: victory:


No, just the same name and spelling. We're a rare breed you know :2thumb:


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Veyron said:


> Yeah, nobody thinks it's because of his care....if it was bad enough to make a 2 year old bosc *that small*...it would be dead. Obviously something else going on there : victory:
> 
> I only mentioned your partners names cos it's mine too :no1:


Haha  Damien is an awesome name so congrats to you! hah

That's good to know, I honestly don't blame people for questioning the setup, it's natural when enquiring about something as strange as a miniature bosc! I'm quite surprised there are no others though, surely there's at least one other? or is Peaches truely one of a kind haha!


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

YoshiHCG said:


> Haha  Damien is an awesome name so congrats to you! hah
> 
> That's good to know, I honestly don't blame people for questioning the setup, it's natural when enquiring about something as strange as a miniature bosc! I'm quite surprised there are no others though, surely there's at least one other? or is Peaches truely one of a kind haha!


Shane said he's seen one (further up). Would be great if someone knew what it was and why, cos husbandry cannot make something grow (or not) like this :hmm:


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Veyron said:


> Shane said he's seen one (further up). Would be great if someone knew what it was and why, cos husbandry cannot make something grow (or not) like this :hmm:


Yeah thats a point, Shane did the bosc you saw look anything like Peaches? 

How would someone go about finding out if there are any other factors that caused Peaches to stay this small though?


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

YoshiHCG said:


> Yeah thats a point, Shane did the bosc you saw look anything like Peaches?
> 
> How would someone go about finding out if there are any other factors that caused Peaches to stay this small though?


 Aside from a complete genetic testing, not really.

DNA examinations are expensive.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Veyron said:


> Shane said he's seen one (further up). Would be great if someone knew what it was and why, cos husbandry cannot make something grow (or not) like this :hmm:


Oh and whys that then? Because it can and far worse happens all the time. 


Lack of food lack of heat n you get stunted monitors... There are some ackies in a shop near me at least 2 years old n there only a 12"


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Oh and whys that then? Because it can and far worse happens all the time.
> 
> 
> Lack of food lack of heat n you get stunted monitors...


 Shane, I have seen some sickly, poorly cared for Boscs, and they are not proportioned like this wee lizard, nor anywhere near as good looking.

I would however love nothing more than seeing Peaches setup, either to criticize or compliment.. Can't really say until I see it.


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Oh and whys that then? Because it can and far worse happens all the time.
> 
> 
> Lack of food lack of heat n you get stunted monitors... There are some ackies in a shop near me at least 2 years old n there only a 12"


Would have thought that vertebrates grow regardless, obviously slower if they lack what they require, and to grow almost nothing at all in 2 years for an animal that grow rapidly, would mean it had been sooo badly looked after, it would have died before this point. Hence the extreme rarity of this one, but the immense abundance of neglected boscs out there !


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Infernalis said:


> Shane, I have seen some sickly, poorly cared for Boscs, and they are not proportioned like this wee lizard, nor anywhere near as good looking.
> 
> I would however love nothing more than seeing Peaches setup, either to criticize or compliment.. Can't really say until I see it.


I shall get a few pictures of Peaches setup for you next weekend when I'm over there again for you


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Veyron said:


> Would have thought that vertebrates grow regardless, obviously slower if they lack what they require, and to grow almost nothing at all in 2 years for an animal that grow rapidly, would mean it had been sooo badly looked after, it would have died before this point. Hence the extreme rarity of this one, but the immense abundance of neglected boscs out there !



Most would but there such tough animals there bodies can take a hello of a lot before they succumb theyll hang on by a claw for yonks after summat that shouldhave killed them


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Haha thanks Fliq  I think we do have a midget on our hands here  he's well cared for and in response to the setup questions he actually lives at my other halfs house (as he's my other halfs bosc just I post the pics etc and share the love haha) so you'll have to wait til he's online or I see him next before I can clarify those things but he is cared for in the correct manner for a bosc and hasn't had anything out of the norm in the care of a bosc . He is just one of those rare oddities that come to light every blue moon hehe. He is healthy and active (and fiesty too) so it's not malnourishment or any form of setup neglect . His viv is smaller than a normal bosc of 2 years old because he is so small! hehe, he does fine in the viv, we usually see him exploring or lazing about on top of a rock 'sunbathing' lol. My partner Damien has had reptiles for many many years now of all shapes and sizes and animal welfare is always a top priority so research and care always goes into the setups of our animals to make sure they are as good as can be  :2thumb:
> 
> I'm good btw Fliq  hope you, sam and the bump are doing good too and have settled ok!  Love looking at your pics on instagram, those boscs you hatched are beeeaaautiful, well done  btw check out my other thread on snake pictures, would love you to see my new carpet python nova as I know you have some yourselves she's a beauty and i'm rather proud of her   :no1:


yeah will be good to see the setup etc but from the photos he looks like he's doing well : victory:

we're all good here, its still hectic with trying to get settled in and sorting the business out and all that but hopefully miss fidget should be here in a couple of weeks!
didn't know you followed me on instagram! whats your instaname?
the bosc's are my pride and joy :flrt: i'm so proud of our female for doing so well and i'm glad that all the hatchlings are eating well and are as mental as anything!!

will head over and have a look at the new carpet python.. i'm a sucker for morelia species!


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Haha  Damien is an awesome name so congrats to you! hah
> 
> That's good to know, I honestly don't blame people for questioning the setup, it's natural when enquiring about something as strange as a miniature bosc! I'm quite surprised there are no others though, surely there's at least one other? or is Peaches truely one of a kind haha!


i would have no doubt that dwarfism will naturally occur in many species. it has probably occurred before in the wild but the survival rates of such a small adult are unlikely to be very high. havent heard of them in captivity before though :2thumb:


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Noofy said:


> i would have no doubt that dwarfism will naturally occur in many species. it has probably occurred before in the wild but *the survival rates of such a small adult are unlikely* to be very high. havent heard of them in captivity before though :2thumb:


 A quick eagle snack for sure.

It's capacity to fight back is severely diminished.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Oh and whys that then? Because it can and far worse happens all the time.
> 
> 
> Lack of food lack of heat n you get stunted monitors... There are some ackies in a shop near me at least 2 years old n there only a 12"


 
must admit this is what made me ask as there is no mention of a basking spot or heat/spot bulbs just a uv light and a heatmat, so i thought that if they are not having the correct temps then he cant bask at the correct temps, therefore he wont be able to get up to temp to digest any food properly therefore this would stunt his growth wouldnt it?? he does look healthy in the pics though so im probably wrong.


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## DaveWillisHertsARG (Jul 8, 2012)

I have recently taken on a Bosc -my first and only - which was at least 14 months old, and whilst having the mentioned 'adult' proportions, had a SVL of approximately 15-20cm. Whilst it is entirely probable that dwarfism occurs -and I want to make it clear I am making no judgements here on the OP's care- husbandry (heat, available food etc.) seems to be the overwhelmingly determining factor. In the case of mine, he was kept in a bone dry 48" vivexotic with a heat mat, large fake bark arch and <2" of those square beech chips. The water bowl was one of those shallow exo-terra dishes. He was being fed a handful of crickets or perhaps a couple of pinkies once a week. Hence, he is very small.


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

Infernalis said:


> A quick eagle snack for sure.
> 
> It's capacity to fight back is severely diminished.


exactly.

for those of you who are interested, this is what DB has to say on the matter:

You'd expect some variation in size and as you say there is no reason why animas cant be dwarf.
I suppose the only way to be certain would be to breed from it and see if any of the offspring were similarly small.
Dwarf varieties of large monitors would be very popular in the pet trade.

Natalie, i saw the pictures of Nova. That is some very bold yellow on her!
Looking good out in the sun :2thumb:


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Typically, an underfed animal winds up looking like this poor beastie. Photo used with permission.


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## DaveWillisHertsARG (Jul 8, 2012)

All too familiar, Wayne!


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## Lightbulb310 (Aug 13, 2012)

while dropping off a royal recently to a guy local to me we got chatting about boscs, i was explaining the size and weight of my guy when he said he to had a bosc roughly 16-18 months old. 

well when he showed me it i was gobsmacked there sitting in a 3ft viv on woodchips was a 12" bosc looking rather plump 

exactly how my guy looked at only a few months old i couldn't believe this bosc was around 16-18 months old i told him he MUST be mistaken and got it mixed up somehow, he said nope it was bought from so and so shop on his birthday there was no way the age could be wrong. 

it was around 12" and over just over 16 months old 
mine was roughly 3 - 1/2 ft at roughly the same age it was unbelievable.
it was the body mass that was the shocker it was not skinny or underfed (he had a dubia colony going and also fed eggs and chicken occasionally just like i did) 

it seemed healthy but it just hadn't grown.


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

Lightbulb310 said:


> while dropping off a royal recently to a guy local to me we got chatting about boscs, i was explaining the size and weight of my guy when he said he to had a bosc roughly 16-18 months old.
> 
> well when he showed me it i was gobsmacked there sitting in a 3ft viv on woodchips was a 12" bosc looking rather plump
> 
> ...


if it was kept on woodchips i doubt the poor thing will have been too healthy!


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## Lightbulb310 (Aug 13, 2012)

Noofy said:


> if it was kept on woodchips i doubt the poor thing will have been too healthy!


yh i did pull him on that in a polite as possible manner but his reply was "thats what the shop had him on"

i have been into nearly every reptile shop possible in this part of the country and have yet to find one that doesnt have there beardies on sand from 4 weeks old and boscs on newpaper and woodchips. 

not surprised so many reptiles end up ill or suffering if they have these shops set ups to go by..


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## Lightbulb310 (Aug 13, 2012)

Noofy said:


> if it was kept on woodchips i doubt the poor thing will have been too healthy!



nice to see at least 2 of YOUR boscs are kept on woodchips did you forget you have picture albums of your own animals and set ups.

FAIL


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

nice convo killer, very nice bosc either way aslong as husbandry is good (not doubting you!) good on you!


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

Lightbulb310 said:


> nice to see at least 2 of YOUR boscs are kept on woodchips did you forget you have picture albums of your own animals and set ups.
> 
> FAIL


yes, i had three adults on woodchips while one was being fixed for scale rot.

i dont feel the need to take them down as they're good photos of my boscs


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Noofy said:


> exactly.
> 
> for those of you who are interested, this is what DB has to say on the matter:
> 
> ...


Thanks Fliq  I do adore Nova, even when she can be a little grumpy haha!!



Lightbulb310 said:


> nice to see at least 2 of YOUR boscs are kept on woodchips did you forget you have picture albums of your own animals and set ups.
> 
> FAIL


C'mon please keep this thread as pleasant as possible, no need for that, thanks 



benjo said:


> nice convo killer, very nice bosc either way aslong as husbandry is good (not doubting you!) good on you!


Agreed, no need to turn this convo sour :/ ... Thankyou, well like I said on the weekend I will provide setup information, but we have done our best for Peaches and have followed advice of very reputable bosc breeders etc. Not everyone is always going to agree on the same things (happens alot with cresties too) but thats just peoples opinions and views  doesnt mean anyones more right than the other, just different ways of doing things and as a few people have said Peaches does seem to have all the characteristics of a mature bosc not a baby and he looks to be in good condition. I can also confirm he's active, playful and never refuses feed so its not like he's been neglected


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## Lightbulb310 (Aug 13, 2012)

i dont understand how im being asked to keep the thread clean when someone made a cheap sarky comment about the bosc i had seen on woodchips..

"doubt it is healthy"

FACT you keep your own boscs on wood chips yet make cheap snidey comments about others doing so for your followers to like and boost your ego.:whip:

EPIC FAIL in every way. :blush: 

sorry for spoiling the thread but i hate cheap snidy comments from keyboard critters who know it all yet so little . :notworthy:


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Lightbulb310 said:


> i dont understand how im being asked to keep the thread clean when someone made a cheap sarky comment about the bosc i had seen on woodchips..
> 
> "doubt it is healthy"
> 
> ...


 Have you ever considered that Noofy has learned better since those pictures were taken?


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

YoshiHCG said:


> Agreed, no need to turn this convo sour :/ ... Thankyou, well like I said on the weekend I will provide setup information, but we have done our best for Peaches and have followed advice of very reputable bosc breeders etc. *Not everyone is always going to agree on the same things (happens alot with cresties too) but thats just peoples opinions and views  doesnt mean anyones more right than the other,* just different ways of doing things and as a few people have said Peaches does seem to have all the characteristics of a mature bosc not a baby and he looks to be in good condition. I can also confirm he's active, playful and never refuses feed so its not like he's been neglected


Not picking on you in any way. 

But I simply must clarify this...

Wood chips is a lizard killer with Boscs, period. No opinion about it.

Boscs simply must have a soil substrate to support burrowing or they do not live to get old, it's not about what pleases us, it's not about what works for snakes, it's about moisture conservation.

There is a most excellent write up at savannahmonitor.net about his very subject.

Savannah Monitor Health!

Countless keepers failing to follow this *LAW* of bosc keeping continue losing animals and blaming it on everything under the sun, from diet to parasites to diseases that don't exist.


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## Noofy (Oct 22, 2009)

Lightbulb310 said:


> i dont understand how im being asked to keep the thread clean when someone made a cheap sarky comment about the bosc i had seen on woodchips..
> 
> "doubt it is healthy"
> 
> ...


i wasn't being sarcastic dude, simply stating that it should be kept on better substrate.

fact is that i _kept_ my adults on woodchips for a while but please note that all photos in that album date well over a year ago.

nothing to do with my ego. my boscs are now back on burrowing substrate and have been for over a year. never claimed to 'know it all' though.. sorry you feel that way.. : victory:


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## Lightbulb310 (Aug 13, 2012)

Ok fair enough but I don't know why your telling me how boscs should be kept I know. and would never put woodchips anywhere near My Bosc ? wouldn't dream of it. 

Even when I first got him I had done enough research before hand.
the Bosc I Mentioned was simply one in a strangers house I was visiting to drop Off a snake. and as I said I pulled him On the set up an said it wasn't any good for him at all, he wasn't interested as the "reptile shop" had told him chips where fine. 

Thia is what I'm Saying why would he listen to
Me? Over a reptile shop who he thinks and believes are the experts..

Such a shame...


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Infernalis said:


> Not picking on you in any way.
> 
> But I simply must clarify this...
> 
> ...


Sorry should have probably made it a little clearer, I don't mean when its in black and white and prove that there is a correct way which is healthier for the animal. I mean things like uv light for cresties. Some people say yes, some say no, some have said their cresties have benefited from the extra light whereas some say they have had some on uv and others not and they themselves cannot see that it has benefited in any extra way.  I wasn't meaning keeping boscs on woodchips can be seen as right or wrong although I do feel fliq is justified, she explained it was only temporary and I know her partner and her, they are excellent reptile keepers and have some amazing and well thought put setups for their reptiles. Id have no issue going to fliq for advice if I needed it


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

YoshiHCG said:


> Sorry should have probably made it a little clearer, I don't mean when its in black and white and prove that there is a correct way which is healthier for the animal. I mean things like uv light for cresties. Some people say yes, some say no, some have said their cresties have benefited from the extra light whereas some say they have had some on uv and others not and they themselves cannot see that it has benefited in any extra way.  I wasn't meaning keeping boscs on woodchips can be seen as right or wrong although I do feel fliq is justified, she explained it was only temporary and I know her partner and her, they are excellent reptile keepers and have some amazing and well thought put setups for their reptiles. Id have no issue going to fliq for advice if I needed it


 I wasn't "targeting" anyone in particular, or you.....

Just clarifying for the benefit of anyone who reads this thread who may be confused about why wood chips just don't work.

Have to admit, the title is drawing in viewers.: victory:


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## cold blooded beast (Mar 17, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> Have you ever considered that Noofy has learned better since those pictures were taken?


Her recent breeding success supports this



Lightbulb310 said:


> Even when I first got him I had done enough research before hand.
> 
> Thia is what I'm Saying why would he listen to
> Me? Over a reptile shop who he thinks and believes are the experts..
> ...


Research as you point out it vital. . .I agree. . .

it can save animals,heartbreak,money and controversy............
The unfortunate thing is....
there are still many easily accessible sources of information that are dated and misleading and that can contribute to killing animals,heartbreak,and controversy!
The success of a keeper/breeder for me is of far more value than the advice of a salesperson..............just personal belief.


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## Damien666 (Sep 30, 2009)

*for sale*

This little jem is now for sale open to offers I have I number in my head as I have never seen a bosc this small pm me damien666


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## SporAkaJohn (May 1, 2012)

Omg I want a dwarf bosc  gutted they grow so big, just can't get that amount of space anywhere


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

As posted by damien666 this gorgeous special bosc is for sale, he does have a price in mind so just PM offers to either me or him, reason for sale is genuine, focusing on GTP breeding projects and need funding for this  

does really look like one of a kind dwarf almost?


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## SporAkaJohn (May 1, 2012)

Damn my wench, if it wasn't for her I'd have had a setup already but I'm not allowed until next year 
Would love to own this tiny dude


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

How long have you had this Bosc?


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## Damien666 (Sep 30, 2009)

*bump*

2 years I think


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Definitely not been done, he's a bosc for sure, here are a few pics of him
> 
> image
> image
> ...


Is he more docile then a full grown bosc

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

Damien666 said:


> This little jem is now for sale open to offers I have I number in my head as I have never seen a bosc this small pm me damien666


I bet it's a big set of numbers lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

he is friendly, not really aggressive, does get feisty and pissy when you first get him out but he settles. he's such a cutie, his bites don't even leave a mark haha 


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> he is friendly, not really aggressive, does get feisty and pissy when you first get him out but he settles. he's such a cutie, his bites don't even leave a mark haha
> 
> 
> _Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


That's a good thing then 
Be good if there were more dwarfs around .. !
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

definitely he is such a character. hopefully we can find him a good home ! 


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## SporAkaJohn (May 1, 2012)

Any sign or interest in a new home for "Tiny Tim"?


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Unfortunately not at the moment, if we don't find a fantastic home for him he won't be going anywhere


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Unfortunately not at the moment, if we don't find a fantastic home for him he won't be going anywhere


That must be a good thing 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

yeah he's a cute lil guy, no rush to sell really. just strange theres not a massive amount of interest! x 


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

theres loads for sale again at the moment, admittedly not as unusual as yours but alot of people seem to be selling them.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

yeah I've noticed it too, well like i said we're in no rush to sell him


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## emmilllyyy (Oct 9, 2010)

I was just curious to see the little guys setup, have you got pictures yet? it's an absolutely gorgeous little thing


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

emmilllyyy said:


> I was just curious to see the little guys setup, have you got pictures yet? it's an absolutely gorgeous little thing



Hey, I've decided against putting pictures of the setup up on rfuk just due to the comments I've seen in the past on here from other people. I know the setup is right but others may disagree and I don't want tension and arguements to start. Everyone does things differently but some people on here can get very opinionated and assume their way is the only way. So to avoid all that I'm going to leave putting pics up. More than happy to share pics of peaches and videos to show how active and fiesty she is . It doesn't mean I'm not willing to share because I would just I don't want to deal with the minority of ignorant rfukers, not saying any of you are  majority are lovely, just a shame some have to ruin it for others, just I know a few people seem to think peaches is due to inappropriate care and not just a genuine dwarf.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

YoshiHCG said:


> Hey, I've decided against putting pictures of the setup up on rfuk just due to the comments I've seen in the past on here from other people. I know the setup is right but others may disagree and I don't want tension and arguements to start. Everyone does things differently but some people on here can get very opinionated and assume their way is the only way. So to avoid all that I'm going to leave putting pics up. More than happy to share pics of peaches and videos to show how active and fiesty she is . It doesn't mean I'm not willing to share because I would just I don't want to deal with the minority of ignorant rfukers, not saying any of you are  majority are lovely, just a shame some have to ruin it for others, just I know a few people seem to think peaches is due to inappropriate care and not just a genuine dwarf.


i think 99 per cent of people on here with boscs will understand where you are coming from, but where boscs are concerned there really is only one way to keep them correctly so they grow and thrive as they should, if te basic elements arent being met then they wont grow, wont thrive etc, thats why people get like they do over boscs care etc. most problems with boscs can be overcome with correct husbandry isuues sorted, and many die and have problems because of incorrect care/husbandry issues.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Indeed, and I know peaches has the correct care, she always has, we are huge reptile lovers and would never skimp on making a setup correct because our animals welfare is top priority and that they are in the right environment. Peaches is definitely not ill or malnourished or not cared for  so yeah just hope people understand my reason why I am not going to add pics, not that I am worried or have something to hide  x


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

would you be willing to describe it, ie, temps, size substrate etc, at least everyone then will know that shes being kept correctly, just a short to the point description, someone may have some helpful advice , you never know.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Hey, I've decided against putting pictures of the setup up on rfuk just due to the comments I've seen in the past on here from other people. I know the setup is right but others may disagree and I don't want tension and arguements to start. Everyone does things differently but some people on here can get very opinionated and assume their way is the only way. So to avoid all that I'm going to leave putting pics up. More than happy to share pics of peaches and videos to show how active and fiesty she is . It doesn't mean I'm not willing to share because I would just I don't want to deal with the minority of ignorant rfukers, not saying any of you are  majority are lovely, just a shame some have to ruin it for others, just I know a few people seem to think peaches is due to inappropriate care and not just a genuine dwarf.


As long as you can justify why you've made those husbandry choices noone can hurt you.
From the moment you posted that it had a heat mat as the heat source and the ignored questions about the set up I have been suspicion of this thread, I think there's more to this than being genetically or naturally dwarfed but without proof I can't say either way.


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

Chris18 said:


> As long as you can justify why you've made those husbandry choices noone can hurt you.
> From the moment you posted that it had a heat mat as the heat source and the ignored questions about the set up I have been suspicion of this thread, I think there's more to this than being genetically or naturally dwarfed but without proof I can't say either way.


I am with you 100% on this Chris. I am almost certain it is a bad case of MBD from very early stages of growth.

A heat mat as a heat source is most likely a contributing factor.

I think not showing the set up is a clear indication that the owner is actually unsure of the husbandry and is afraid that the husbandry was the cause of the issue. Proof of guilt? No, but it is pointing to that.

I always laugh when people say that "everyone does things differently". This is true but there are ways to do things right and there is the absolute wrong way to do things.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Chris18 said:


> As long as you can justify why you've made those husbandry choices noone can hurt you.
> From the moment you posted that it had a heat mat as the heat source and the ignored questions about the set up I have been suspicion of this thread, I think there's more to this than being genetically or naturally dwarfed but without proof I can't say either way.


Sorry my other half didn't elaborate on the setup that day as he was in a rush. Should have done so.

Peaches is in a 3 x 1.5 x 1.5 foot viv, she has orchid bark as a substrate (i have seen this used on many thriving boscs and it has been proven as an acceptable substrate by many people, it keeps her humid and we didnt want to risk a soil/sand combination because of her size, we have tried the soil/sand method before and it only caused stress and she went off her food therefore we researched the next best method of substrate) she burrows easily in this and is often in little nooks in the substrate. She has a large water dish which she can also get in, plenty of exo terra plants, rocks and wood to climb on and hide under and a cork bark hide. She has a meal worm dish and is fed a varied diet of calci dusted mealworms and occasional wax worms and gut loaded locusts. She's not only heated by a heat mat, she also has a 75w heat lamp for basking under and has her UV tube as well which is changed every 6 months. Temps are kept around 29-32c and at night this drops to about 24-25c. We also always keep an eye on humidity and make sure its up around 50-60%.

I really wish people would not jump to conclusion, i did not wish to post pictures because of this, people immediately assume i have something to hide. No i dont, i just dont want people who seem to pick on very easily commenting and getting funny with me cause I'm not an arguementative person. If peaches had MBD why does Correct Savannah Monitor Care have pictures of peaches on the rare bosc page. I'm pretty sure this person can tell the difference between MBD and dwarfism and wouldn't have pictures of an unhealthy bosc on a rare pic page. I have nothing to hide so dont assume I do please. Gregg I agree there are right and wrong ways but there are different ways of doing it right. there are different types of substrate, different types vivariums, different brands of things that each have their pros and cons. Just because my setup wont be exactly identical to your setup or your idea of a setup doesnt mean its wrong. Peaches is healthy and does NOT have mbd. thanks.

Here is a picture of peaches recently taken next to a mini bottle of jagermeister. P.S she is in shed atm so looks a little scruffier than normal

























She is bright, alert, fiesty, takes a good chomp out of you if she feels like it, shes not lifeless, dull, tired, lacking in colour. She moves all her legs perfectly normally, runs, scuttles, climbs, burrows, scratches, flicks her tail when she feels like it. She's 3 years old now and still going strong, no sign of illness or dying. (p.s your all just jealous XD hehe)


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

What are the surface temps at your basking site? The temps you quote are seriously low for a monitor which would explain low growth. Also the head is proportionally large to the body which suggests underfed and underheated.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

basking temps reach 140-150f which is tops of about 65c. We ensure bulbs are replaced regularly too. Also I have read a huge range of care sheets from here, other places and taken advice from other bosc keepers and the temps we keep her at are sufficient.

P.S disproportionate dwarfism is the way to describe it, its proven.


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

I guess I will be the one to tell you everything you are doing wrong. Here it goes.



YoshiHCG said:


> Peaches is in a 3 x 1.5 x 1.5 foot viv, she has orchid bark as a substrate (i have seen this used on many thriving boscs and it has been proven as an acceptable substrate by many people, it keeps her humid and we didnt want to risk a soil/sand combination because of her size, we have tried the soil/sand method before and it only caused stress and she went off her food therefore we researched the next best method of substrate) she burrows easily in this and is often in little nooks in the substrate.


No, orchid bark has not proven to be an acceptable substrate for any varanid. Also, the dimentions of your viv clearly indicates that you are not offering enough substrate for it to be effective. Maybe if you had 1.5 feet of it in the cage in conjunction with other substrate types, it may work ok but in the current set up, you might as well be using aspen bedding. Hatchling and small odatria are kept kept on sandy soils by varanid keepers who are very successful with keeping and breeding monitors so why would it be a problem with your bosc? What risk can a proper sandy soil pose?



YoshiHCG said:


> She has a large water dish which she can also get in,


What does this do for your bosc exactly? In a proper set up, your bosc will never need to get into its water dish.



YoshiHCG said:


> plenty of exo terra plants, rocks and wood to climb on and hide under and a cork bark hide.


Thats all good.



YoshiHCG said:


> She has a meal worm dish and is fed a varied diet of calci dusted mealworms and occasional wax worms and gut loaded locusts.


You should also be offering rodents as part of its diet. An insect only diet will not cut it.



YoshiHCG said:


> She's not only heated by a heat mat, she also has a 75w heat lamp for basking under and has her UV tube as well which is changed every 6 months.


It is good to offer the UV, just incase it it is beneficial. It has not been proven either wa when it comes to varanids though.



YoshiHCG said:


> Temps are kept around 29-32c and at night this drops to about 24-25c. We also always keep an eye on humidity and make sure its up around 50-60%


.

Your temps are rediculously low for any varanid. The cool end should never drop below 26 to 27 degrees C. Your hot end should be at least 32 degrees C with a basking spot of 54 degrees C.

Your humidity should be 75%.



YoshiHCG said:


> I really wish people would not jump to conclusion, i did not wish to post pictures because of this, people immediately assume i have something to hide. No i dont, i just dont want people who seem to pick on very easily commenting and getting funny with me cause I'm not an arguementative person.


Now there is no need to jump to conclusions. You spelled it out clearly that you are not properly caring for your bosc. Sorry if it sounds rude or harsh but you obviously need to hear it. You should also take the info given to you in this thread and fix your husbandry instead of ignoring it because you THINK you are housing you bosc coreectly at the moment. 



YoshiHCG said:


> If peaches had MBD why does Correct Savannah Monitor Care have pictures of peaches on the rare bosc page. I'm pretty sure this person can tell the difference between MBD and dwarfism and wouldn't have pictures of an unhealthy bosc on a rare pic page. I have nothing to hide so dont assume I do please.


Maybe it is a true dwarf, maybe it isnt. Maybe Wayne thought it was something it is not?



YoshiHCG said:


> Gregg I agree there are right and wrong ways but there are different ways of doing it right. there are different types of substrate, different types vivariums, different brands of things that each have their pros and cons. Just because my setup wont be exactly identical to your setup or your idea of a setup doesnt mean its wrong. Peaches is healthy and does NOT have mbd. thanks.


Based on what you have explained, you are not doing things the right way. And it is not just my set up I am stacking against yours. It is the set up of every other SUCCESSFUL varanid keeper as well.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

fine, look im not getting into an arguement with you. i shall listen to what you said, but a few things. no the soil/sand combo hasnt worked with my bosc, she went off her food, she refused to eat and started losing weight, she didnt burrow or anything. so we put her on orchid bark. she has thrived on it since then. I have seen it being written as an acceptable substrate on MANY sites and i have friends who have boscs themselves for many years healthy and happy and have said its ok. 
Just simply stating the waterbowl is large enough for her to get in, didnt say she actually did get in it. 
Shes had pinkies before, but we dont feed too often as due to her size we are keeping an eye on her weight.
Look if my husbandry was so so bad, surely the bosc would be dead, severely deformed or other, you can see in the pics she isnt, she has no overshot jaw or undershot, all her legs are working fine, she isnt lifeless and dull, she is happy. she is just a midget!!
I am a successful keeper too. Humidity is fine for her she sheds well and has never had any problems, shes hydrated well enough...
I do not want this going on and on and on so lets just leave it now. you've told me how bad my setup is, thats fine, your entitled to your opinion, i've explained my set up, im sticking by my setup, peaches is not being abused, shes not dying, she's not neglected at all. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I will look at temps again but I am going by what care sheets have told me (this is a collection of different caresheets not just 1 or 2). But for now I see no reason why I should suddenly switch her viv around after 3 years just because shes a little different to yours.


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

What your friends do and what should be done are 2 totally different things.



YoshiHCG said:


> Shes had pinkies before, but we dont feed too often as due to her size we are keeping an eye on her weight.


If your bosc was in a proper set up, you would have no need to watch its weight. You should be offering more than an occational rodent. Rodents should make up a big part of its diet.



YoshiHCG said:


> Look if my husbandry was so so bad, surely the bosc would be dead, severely deformed or other, you can see in the pics she isnt, she has no overshot jaw or undershot, all her legs are working fine, she isnt lifeless and dull, she is happy. she is just a midget!!


This is the mistake most people make when keeping varanids. The worst possible husbandry can take years to actually kill a varanid. And in actuality, compared to every other normal, healthy bosc I have seen, your IS severely deformed. And the lower jaw does seem to hang. It may not have MBD at this point in time but bad cases of MBD in early stages of growth are not irreversible and this is what you can be stuck with down the road.



YoshiHCG said:


> I am a successful keeper too. Humidity is fine for her she sheds well and has never had any problems, shes hydrated well enough...


Humidity is not fine at 50 to 60 %.



YoshiHCG said:


> I do not want this going on and on and on so lets just leave it now. you've told me how bad my setup is, thats fine, your entitled to your opinion, i've explained my set up, im sticking by my setup,


So instead of taking advice from people who have been keeping varanids for many years and already made the same mistakes you are currently making, you will stick to husbandry that has proven to be detrimental to the longevity of varanids? Have fun with that.



YoshiHCG said:


> peaches is not being abused, shes not dying, she's not neglected at all. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I will look at temps again but I am going by what care sheets have told me (this is a collection of different caresheets not just 1 or 2).


Like I stated earlier, your bosc may not be dead, but that does not mean you are not slowly killing it in the current set up.

And stop reading care sheets. The huge majority of them are crap. The only care sheet worth anything is one that you are not taking advice from. The very one you linked in you post before.



YoshiHCG said:


> But for now I see no reason why I should suddenly switch her viv around after 3 years just because shes a little different to yours.


No, you should not change it because it is different from mine. You should change it because it is not the correct set up if you want to have your bosc for more than another 2 years.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

YoshiHCG said:


> fine, look im not getting into an arguement with you. i shall listen to what you said, but a few things. no the soil/sand combo hasnt worked with my bosc, she went off her food, she refused to eat and started losing weight, she didnt burrow or anything. so we put her on orchid bark. she has thrived on it since then. I have seen it being written as an acceptable substrate on MANY sites and i have friends who have boscs themselves for many years healthy and happy and have said its ok.
> Just simply stating the waterbowl is large enough for her to get in, didnt say she actually did get in it.
> Shes had pinkies before, but we dont feed too often as due to her size we are keeping an eye on her weight.
> Look if my husbandry was so so bad, surely the bosc would be dead, severely deformed or other, you can see in the pics she isnt, she has no overshot jaw or undershot, all her legs are working fine, she isnt lifeless and dull, she is happy. she is just a midget!!
> ...


 
no hes not saying you shoulod change it cus its different to his, hes saying you should change it as its wrong, everyone on here who keeps boscs and have done for years knows that they need soil/sand to help regulate temps and keep humidity where it should be, we all know what temps they should be kept at, its been proven that the substrate you are using is no good for them, boscs can take years to show any kind of illness due to incorrect husbandry etc, by which time its too late to help them and they die, i would suggest that alot of your husbandry aspects are the reason this little one, is still a little one,.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

how do you know my friends arent doing it correctly? dont assume 
and yes we do need to keep an eye on her, shes not a normal bosc, she gains weight easily due to her size.
Perhaps instead of being an arrogant sod to me unlike someone on here who just quietly PM'd me and is having a nice conversation explaning it and advising nicely instead of just being outright and blunt then you'd get a better response. your as bad as chris with his IMO's which has pissed SO many people off.
I shall look at humidity too then but as i said sheds well, never has problems, hasnt ever shown signs of dehydration etc. Your so bad at advising and trying to help people though, you should perhaps look into that and be a bit nicer rather than come across rude.
Your not the only one to have kept boscs for years, your not perfect. other people are talking to me too so maybe just leave it gregg and dont comment again cause i dont really wish to talk to you about it, however right you may be. there are far better ways of discussing this and you clearly dont know how to. 
Also i have looked at that site and do take advice from it.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

mitsi said:


> no hes not saying you shoulod change it cus its different to his, hes saying you should change it as its wrong, everyone on here who keeps boscs and have done for years knows that they need soil/sand to help regulate temps and keep humidity where it should be, we all know what temps they should be kept at, its been proven that the substrate you are using is no good for them, boscs can take years to show any kind of illness due to incorrect husbandry etc, by which time its too late to help them and they die, i would suggest that alot of your husbandry aspects are the reason this little one, is still a little one,.


Ok, well the temps have been looked at and are same as on the savannahmonitor site. Her humidity again I feel is ok, shes sprayed daily and we keep a constant eye on her humidity. Can you maybe link a thread where it proves the substrate is inadequate, with examples to prove? 
thanks


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> how do you know my friends arent doing it correctly? dont assume
> and yes we do need to keep an eye on her, shes not a normal bosc, she gains weight easily due to her size.
> Perhaps instead of being an arrogant sod to me unlike someone on here who just quietly PM'd me and is having a nice conversation explaning it and advising nicely instead of just being outright and blunt then you'd get a better response. your as bad as chris with his IMO's which has pissed SO many people off.
> I shall look at humidity too then but as i said sheds well, never has problems, hasnt ever shown signs of dehydration etc. Your so bad at advising and trying to help people though, you should perhaps look into that and be a bit nicer rather than come across rude.
> ...


As per usual, when someone is called out they resort to childish mannerism and sly remarks.
Me or Gregg aren't bad at advising were just not worried about stepping on baby toes, we're straight to the point but still get the info in.

The funny thing is, I only put IMO so much because people always whine that I sound like I know in right so I put IMO to show I don't think that.

Please stay focused on your bosc's husbandry instead of trying to score points.
I couldn't care if I've annoyed people so it doesn't bother me.


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Chris18 said:


> As per usual, when someone is called out they resort to childish mannerism and sly remarks.
> Me or Gregg aren't bad at advising were just not worried about stepping on baby toes, we're straight to the point but still get the info in.
> 
> The funny thing is, I only put IMO so much because people always whine that I sound like I know in right so I put IMO to show I don't think that.
> ...


Hardly, just pointing out how i feel gregg has come across to me, I feel he needs to work on it because people are less likely to listen to someone like him. The person who PM'd me has made me listen and got the same information as gregg probably tried to across to me. And i've listened, just all to the way they said it. It works, he should give it a try. 
Sometimes 'straight to the point not stepping on baby toes' isnt the best way and doesnt work with everyone.
I'm not scoring points, im just simply trying to relate how he came across, which is similar to how you have to threads occasionally. thats fine then if it doesnt bother you carry right on  And dont think for a second my boscs husbandry is second on my mind to your comments, makes me laugh you'd think that


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

heres one
Savannah Monitor -  BambooZoo and another
Bosc Monitor Care Sheet - TC Reptiles

in fact ive just read 12 sheets and they all say bark is dangerous not only cus small bits could be swallowed, but for a male it could stick to their hemipenes and they become lodged causing infection, i havent read one that says it is ok/better to use this.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Hardly, just pointing out how i feel gregg has come across to me, I feel he needs to work on it because people are less likely to listen to someone like him. The person who PM'd me has made me listen and got the same information as gregg probably tried to across to me. And i've listened, just all to the way they said it. It works, he should give it a try.
> Sometimes 'straight to the point not stepping on baby toes' isnt the best way and doesnt work with everyone.
> I'm not scoring points, im just simply trying to relate how he came across, which is similar to how you have to threads occasionally. thats fine then if it doesnt bother you carry right on  And dont think for a second my boscs husbandry is second on my mind to your comments, makes me laugh you'd think that


Then do so in PM. This isn't a personality advice forum.

The funny thing is I'm like this because of people like you. Do you know how frustrating it is when people come onto the forum and say 'I've got x problem but my husbandry is perfect' but then never state what it is, then when we finally find out it's ALWAYS, off.


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

YoshiHCG said:


> Hardly, just pointing out how i feel gregg has come across to me, I feel he needs to work on it because people are less likely to listen to someone like him. The person who PM'd me has made me listen and got the same information as gregg probably tried to across to me. And i've listened, just all to the way they said it. It works, he should give it a try.


See, here is the deal. I do not really care about your feelings to be quite honest. If you do not want to take my correct advice because how I put it hurts your feelings or deflates ego, that is not my problem. The only one who will get the crap end of the stick is your bosc. So, not taking my advice is not hurting me, its hurting your captive. I do not resort to PMs with stuff like this because anyone reading how you keep your monitor should know that it is the absolute wrong way of doing it. Sorry I am not patting you on the back for providing your bosc with poor, incorrect husbandry.

And if your friends are keeping their boscs like you are or advising you to do it the way you are, they are doing it wrong. A friend who knows what they are doing would have either advised you to set it up right or offered to take it off your hands. Maybe they did advise you the right way but you are too set in thinking you are doing it ok.

Also, shedding fine is an indication of nothing and if you need to spay down your monitors cage daily, it further cements the fact that your husbandry is not right.


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

I think you should just either take their advice and be thankful for it or if you think the way you do it is correct just leave the argument as it going nowhere! At first I was quite interested in this thread thinking if they created some sort of dwarf bosc that would be very cool and a great new species but its just turned into an argument over the husbandry of this very interesting subject.

Gregg and Chris are both great keepers who I have very high respect for so please don't try and argue with them as they are probably always going to be right. The way you take care of your bosc may be perfectly ok (I don't know as ive never kept varanids) but their way is probabley right too so mabye come to an agreement with them on the correct husbandry?

Mabye we could get this thread back to the topic as I was pretty interested!


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

pippin9050 said:


> I think you should just either take their advice and be thankful for it or if you think the way you do it is correct just leave the argument as it going nowhere! At first I was quite interested in this thread thinking if they created some sort of dwarf bosc that would be very cool and a great new species but its just turned into an argument over the husbandry of this very interesting subject.
> 
> Gregg and Chris are both great keepers who I have very high respect for so please don't try and argue with them as they are probably always going to be right. The way you take care of your bosc may be perfectly ok (I don't know as ive never kept varanids) but their way is probabley right too so mabye come to an agreement with them on the correct husbandry?
> 
> Mabye we could get this thread back to the topic as I was pretty interested!


I'm not always right mr pip 

Maybe you'll respect me a little less when I say I'm getting a 8 week old Jackson's at the end of the month mwhahahahaah :lol2:


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

well you usually are!
are you actually getting a Jacksons soon? raising it from 2 month will be a challenge! Bur im sure with your skills you will succeed!
where are you getting it from?
and by the way call me Ash!


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

pippin9050 said:


> well you usually are!
> are you actually getting a Jacksons soon? raising it from 2 month will be a challenge! Bur im sure with your skills you will succeed!
> where are you getting it from?
> and by the way call me Ash!


Ye, I've reserved one from Global Geckos
It's local to me and they were born in the shop so I couldn't resist :/
I was hoping they were going to be 3 months but they said they're going at 8 weeks. I'm making sure everything is good while I wait for it so I'm hoping hell be good


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

thats great news! 
heard nothing but great things about global geckos!
have you got your sikorae from julie yet?
would be great to see pics!


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

pippin9050 said:


> thats great news!
> heard nothing but great things about global geckos!
> have you got your sikorae from julie yet?
> would be great to see pics!


Ye, got it beginning of January.
I don't post picture on here really because noone seems to appreciate them unless they're leopard geckos lol!
Weren't you here to make this thread on topic LOL


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

cool its a shame no one appreciates them for what they are! beautiful geckos sikorae are my favourite of them all!
How old is it?
Well no one else is replying so might as well make a converstaion of it until someone does!


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

pippin9050 said:


> cool its a shame no one appreciates them for what they are! beautiful geckos sikorae are my favourite of them all!
> How old is it?
> Well no one else is replying so might as well make a converstaion of it until someone does!



Ill post pictures in a sec. And it is a shame indeed.
I can't remember how old it is to be honest, I waited so long it all just merged together haha! I think around 4-6 months


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

wow thats a long time you were on the waiting list from an egg wern't you? would be great to see pics especially of your quality!


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

pippin9050 said:


> wow thats a long time you were on the waiting list from an egg wern't you? would be great to see pics especially of your quality!


Ye, It was before he was even laid 
Things I do to get the things I want :blush:


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## pippin9050 (Dec 20, 2011)

I know!
So its a male?
are you planning anything with these species or just prefer the males?
are they sexually dimorphic?


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Chris18 said:


> Then do so in PM. This isn't a personality advice forum.
> 
> The funny thing is I'm like this because of people like you. Do you know how frustrating it is when people come onto the forum and say 'I've got x problem but my husbandry is perfect' but then never state what it is, then when we finally find out it's ALWAYS, off.


Never said I had a problem though  I never came on here saying my bosc was having problems, I came on here to talk about the possibility of dwarf boscs and to discuss it. end of


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

pippin9050 said:


> I think you should just either take their advice and be thankful for it or if you think the way you do it is correct just leave the argument as it going nowhere! At first I was quite interested in this thread thinking if they created some sort of dwarf bosc that would be very cool and a great new species but its just turned into an argument over the husbandry of this very interesting subject.
> 
> Gregg and Chris are both great keepers who I have very high respect for so please don't try and argue with them as they are probably always going to be right. The way you take care of your bosc may be perfectly ok (I don't know as ive never kept varanids) but their way is probabley right too so mabye come to an agreement with them on the correct husbandry?
> 
> Mabye we could get this thread back to the topic as I was pretty interested!


Thanks pippin. Thing is yes they may be quite good keepers im not disputing it and never well, but ive got advice from other people now and thats the end of it, i'll check a few things but i think its just gotta stop now if gregg wishes to pm in the future thats up to him, but im gonna leave it now. just wanted to talk about dwarf boscs and the possibilities, excluding the possibility of mine


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

YoshiHCG said:


> Never said I had a problem though  I never came on here saying my bosc was having problems, I came on here to talk about the possibility of dwarf boscs and to discuss it. end of


No, you didn't but it was instanstly up for debate as soon as you asked if you had a dwarf and if it's something that has happened naturally due to no fault of your own.
You stated your setups were perfect but when you actually posted the info it turned out it wasn't :whistling2:


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## YoshiHCG (Feb 21, 2012)

Chris18 said:


> No, you didn't but it was instanstly up for debate as soon as you asked if you had a dwarf and if it's something that has happened naturally due to no fault of your own.
> You stated your setups were perfect but when you actually posted the info it turned out it wasn't :whistling2:


In some ways i regret the thread because i had a niggle it'd end up like this. i hate conflict and avoid it if i can. I never said the setup was perfect. i think everything can be improved. I know there are things i could do to improve peaches setup, and i look into it often. just there are better ways on going about advising people thats all. i've had a chat with some other less forward people on the forums and come away with some good stuff. but nevertheless be assured peaches isnt mistreated or neglected. she is loved and cared for every day of her life.


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## Martin88 (Aug 9, 2009)

The fact the animal is way undersized and out of proportion and lots of people are telling you the husbandry is not correct makes me wonder why alarms bells aren't ringing in your head.

You are 100% set on the fact that its a natural occurrence and not down to your husbandry.

Every Bosc care sheet I have ever seen says soil/sand mix, Minimum of 1ft ideally 1.5ft, They also say that rodents are a huge part of the animals diet.

Why not feed less bugs more pinkies? 

All seems fairly straight forward for someone who is open minded and willing to change their ways and do the best for their animal. Perhaps it's best that this one is sold on to someone who is willing to try.

And by try I mean change stuff. Just to see if this animal has a chance at growing. Is there a down side to trying to make sure the animal has the proper care? I am inclined to agree with others, I think that you were worried about posting pics of the set up because it was wrong. Nothing else in it.


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

I think she has had enough peeps sooo maybe let's leave it out !!!! Chris and Greg have sed their peace .... And Martin 8 
This ain't a shooting gallery ... More pinkies .... U obviously knw f all as she shud b feeding a high calcium level so maybe rat pups yes but pinkies are mostly water ..... :whistling2:

Like I say she has been notified of her faults now let's not bully the poor woman


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## rep-it (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm with varanus87 on this one, yoshi knows what's what now so leave it be.


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