# Because I had suspected IBD will I ever be able to sell animals or not?



## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

Just wondering becuase I want to breed in the future but there is no point if people are not going to buy from m becuase of suspected IBD being in my history.
I know short term I cant but medium-long term(1-5 years from now) would I b able toor would people still be unwilling?


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## hankasaur (Mar 23, 2009)

eventually i think you could, yes


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

For sure, if everything's still healthy say a year or two down the line then there's no reason why not. Nothing was ever confirmed and could've been a whole host of problems. You did shoot yourself in the foot though unfortunately. Next time you suspect something like that get a pm done straight away!


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

yes i did shoot myself in the foot and especially as it was never confirmed i would have been better to not have posted it on a large forum!!!

i have heard several theories to what it could have been but as stated many times unfortunately i never got a PM and so no point shooting blind


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Barney_M said:


> Just wondering becuase I want to breed in the future but there is no point if people are not going to buy from m becuase of suspected IBD being in my history.


What is an IBD?


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

maybe many years down the line


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## georgieabc123 (Jul 17, 2008)

not to sound harsh but me personally i wouldn't buy from you because im paranoid but maybe in a few years its such a shame though because it not your fault


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

excession said:


> What is an IBD?


Inclusion Body Disease.


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

georgieabc123 said:


> not to sound harsh but me personally i wouldn't buy from you because im paranoid but maybe in a few years its such a shame though because it not your fault


yeah thats the worst bit about it


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

NM my question, google has answered it for me.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Thing is barney as already stated some people are abit funny and still dont want to risk it even if its 2-3 years down the line....BUT 2- 3 years down the line you might be living else where, a different area where your reptiles are kept so its not like your still going to be using the same room where IBD was suspected.

All i sugest is keep the snakes you have and enjoy them. dont buy anything else...weather it be boid or not just to make sure what ever it was dont get to other snakes or vise versa.
Knowledge is gained by experince not collection size.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

If I was a large snake keeper, I would probably buy from you in the future yes. I think that things are learnt from our errors. 

I don't know the in's and outs of your situation hun but you come across as a okay guy and are honest enough to post and say that you have concerns - for me that is worth 10 of the keeper who would have PM's and then hide it from people :no1:


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

cheers christian - for some reason you always seem to make a point that gets the pint across and makes perfect sense.

it is a shame its happened to me as it is uncommon and it mans if i see something i really like i must restrain myself!!!!!!!!! I am sure i will keep up with my reading and work to gain as much experience as I can so when I 'rejoin' the hobby i will hopfully be much more experience, knowledgeable and sensible


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Barney_M said:


> cheers christian - for some reason you always seem to make a point that gets the pint across a


:gasp: pint...across....am confused...athough completely off topic i do drink 4 pints of milk aday.

Barney why do you need to re-join the hobby in a few years time? reptile keeping is about just that. its a hobby where fellow keepers converse and exchange tips,methods,storys and pictures. You are a reptile keeper regaurdless of weather your breeding or keeping anything.

The sales,trade and breeding side of reptile keeping is kinda like a sims game add on...you can still play the orginal game without needing the add on.


Also it doesnt stop you from being a active member in reptile keeping and such. why not educate children on animals, go and make a pond in your garden,create a bog garden , make a rotting log pile to increase the wildlife in the area. theres many things you can do still without requiring you to buy animals


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

wildlifewarrior said:


> :gasp: pint...across....am confused...athough completely off topic i do drink 4 pints of milk aday.
> 
> Barney why do you need to re-join the hobby in a few years time? reptile keeping is about just that. its a hobby where fellow keepers converse and exchange tips,methods,storys and pictures. You are a reptile keeper regaurdless of weather your breeding or keeping anything.
> 
> ...


i meant point sorry for my typing!

whislt i understand your point about the hobby christian its the age old thing that is a lot of the time un true 'the more of somthing you have the more you know' and having a small amount of snakes people may not listen to your advice. i know i would still be party of the community but people will soong et bored of pictures of the same animals and as i said, despite owning amazon tree boas for a while in the past (actually other than my bci longer than any other snake i have kept so far) people wont listen to me when i answer questions on them becuase i dont own them anymore, whereas i never once had a bad shed of bad feeding response which seems to be a common complaint.

as to your last oint that i something i am planning to do over summer - build a small wildlife patch in the corn of my garden to attract wildlife into my garden which would act as a refuge for them. :2thumb:


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

The only saying....evil only provails when good men do nothing.

So what if you dont have as many snakes as someone else, dont mean there right or wrong....look at BHB, i and many other keepers advoid being biten,not because it might hurt but because it can be dangerous to the snake aswell, yet they allow the snakes to bite them for entertainment on a youtube channel...same for there beardies...they have no decor in there enclosures yet many including my self would say they should have things to climb up and explore...yet he is very knowledgeable and have over 20,000 snakes.

experince is what people with a half decent brain will listen to.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

i`m confused did your snake have it or not ,or were you just being a drama queen.
from what i can gather you never actually had a confirmed case


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

As he has already said, he suspected it.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

wildlifewarrior said:


> As he has already said, he suspected it.


yeah but this IS Barnpot M WE ARE TALKING ABOUT


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

no need to be rude is there,,,everyone makes mistakes...his was a big one but at least hes being mature now.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Can i ask how old you are please before i continue on


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

dont see what that has to do but am 19


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

I thought you said you were leaving the forum for good barny..??


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## dragonbreeder (Aug 22, 2007)

shouldn't be selling your snakes tbh barney, not until you're sure - just my opinion.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

wildlifewarrior said:


> dont see what that has to do but am 19


i think you need to read this lads history .

and i dont think you are old enough to pass an informed opinion on this thread.


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## dragonbreeder (Aug 22, 2007)

darwengray said:


> i think you need to read this lads history .
> 
> *and i dont think you are old enough to pass an informed opinion on this thread.*



explain that statement.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

darwengray said:


> i think you need to read this lads history .
> 
> and i dont think you are old enough to pass an informed opinion on this thread.



I am well aware of his history. never stated i was happy with him or the way he went about it once.

maybe you shouldnt pass comments like his until you actually know me.


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

Barney I think you will struggle to sell anything in the future to anyone who is aware of the problem you had, I'm sorry to say I will not deal with you or anyone you have dealt with around the time you had suspected Ibd in your collection. The funny thing is, things could be so different had you had a PM done...


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## gowing238 (Mar 2, 2009)

GlasgowGecko said:


> Inclusion Body Disease.


Whats ibd in snakes then? I jus googled it and it came up with inflammatory bowel disease. thats not right is it?


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

gowing238 said:


> Whats ibd in snakes then? I jus googled it and it came up with inflammatory bowel disease. thats not right is it?


Inclusion Body disease .. highly contagious ( even if one snake in your house gets it all can be infected easily)... extremely dangerous.. and no cure..

its basically Like SNAKE Aids.. only passed on from contact or moisture particles even in air.. or on human skin.. so very easily passed from collection to collection


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

gowing238 said:


> Whats ibd in snakes then? I jus googled it and it came up with inflammatory bowel disease. thats not right is it?



gives me the craps just talking about it 



its a diease in boid...pythons and boas...its long winded but basically it can spread and kill your collection of them over time and theres no none cure.


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## gowing238 (Mar 2, 2009)

gowing238 said:


> Whats ibd in snakes then? I jus googled it and it came up with inflammatory bowel disease. thats not right is it?


Ignore that. Inclusion body disease. Just re googled and found a snake answer. Very interesting. Hope mine dont get it. Sholdnt though, being the only one!


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

gowing238 said:


> Ignore that. Inclusion body disease. Just re googled and found a snake answer. Very interesting. Hope mine dont get it. Sholdnt though, being the only one!


What snake do you have out of interest


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

darwengray said:


> i`m confused did your snake have it or not ,or were you just being a drama queen.
> from what i can gather you never actually had a confirmed case


i was not being a drama queen it was a suspected case better to be safe than sorry.



darwengray said:


> i think you need to read this lads history .
> 
> and i dont think you are old enough to pass an informed opinion on this thread.


i dont tihnk age has anything to do with it. I know Christian outside of the forum and know he is incredibly knowledgeable and down to earth. He has a good knowledge of most things reptile and I would trust him with any animal or any info he gives out. I don't think ag has anything to do with anything as you get some older people pass opinions who really have no clue what their doing/saying and therefore look like an idiot


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## dragonbreeder (Aug 22, 2007)

Barney_M said:


> i was not being a drama queen it was a suspected case *better to be safe than sorry.*



That my friend, is why you should have no movement into or out of your collection for i'd say around 6 months at a very bare minimum, considering IBD can lie dormant for some time...
but i've made my opinions clear on msn mate.


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## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

I have to be completely honest, I wouldn't buy from you.
Not because one of your snakes may have had IBD - cause anyone can be unfortunate enough to have their collection decimated by this illness but you never had a PM done to find out WHETHER you had this extremely deadly and infectious disease.
So I really don't see how anyone could trust that it wasn't still harbouring somewhere.
If this thread was by someone who had lost a whole collection, sadly, due to this horrible disease I am sure everyone on this forum would be rallying round them - giving advice and encouraging them. However, it seems you just didn't bother to check. Sorry, but that's how it seems.


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

But is it not possible to do a blood test on some of your snakes to see if anything is not right and if that came back all good bobs ya uncle unless he's had a sex change then he's ya anty all the best


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

No, IBD cannot be confirmed or proven to be absent from blood tests. 

Barney would have to have liver/organ biopsies done on his snakes (which is expensive and invasive), and a negative first test would not prove that they are *definitely* clear.


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## cannotstopbuyingballs (Dec 29, 2007)

sparkle said:


> Inclusion Body disease .. highly contagious ( even if one snake in your house gets it all can be infected easily)... extremely dangerous.. and no cure..
> 
> its basically Like SNAKE Aids.. only passed on from contact or moisture particles even in air.. or on human skin.. so very easily passed from collection to collection


 
It it is like "snake aids" it is a retro virus but is not as contagious as you suggest. It is mainly spread by snake mites and extreme direct contact. If barneydid have snake mite and IBD his collection is finished. The fact that no other snake is sick is encouraging. 

If IBD was an airborne virus and was as contagious as like a rota virus then I think that every snake it captivity in the UK would be dead by now


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

clive1973 said:


> It it is like "snake aids" it is a retro virus but is not as contagious as you suggest. It is mainly spread by snake mites and extreme direct contact. If barneydid have snake mite and IBD his collection is finished. The fact that no other snake is sick is encouraging.
> 
> If IBD was an airborne virus and was as contagious as like a rota virus then I think that every snake it captivity in the UK would be dead by now


 
IBD CAN be transferred through moisture particles and studies have NOT shown if this includes air moisture particles.. there is NO proof how large the moisture particles need be yet.. eg sweat.. air..
I read a long paper by a scientist in USA who has been studying transferral and has stated they simply do not know yet.. i have to try to find it.. if i have the time i will do a search and Pm it to you


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## cannotstopbuyingballs (Dec 29, 2007)

sparkle said:


> IBD CAN be transferred through moisture particles and studies have NOT shown if this includes air moisture particles.. there is NO proof how large the moisture particles need be yet.. eg sweat.. air..
> I read a long paper by a scientist in USA who has been studying transferral and has stated they simply do not know yet.. i have to try to find it.. if i have the time i will do a search and Pm it to you


i respect your opinum but as snakes only have one lung and dont cough then i still feel that the major risk is from snake mites and blood to blood contact. If imd was airborne then we most people going to a pet shop everyweek then there would be a huge outbreak


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

clive1973 said:


> i respect your opinum but as snakes only have one lung and dont cough then i still feel that the major risk is from snake mites and blood to blood contact. If imd was airborne then we most people going to a pet shop everyweek then there would be a huge outbreak


some snakes have 2 lungs :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## cannotstopbuyingballs (Dec 29, 2007)

Mr Man said:


> some snakes have 2 lungs :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Stand corrected, which ones ?


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

would it not be the some of the new world species? e.g. not boas and pythons?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Boas are kinda new-world snakes.... 

And it's not actually "because they have only one lung" that is the correct answer to "Why can't snakes cough as forcefully as humans".

Even if snakes ALL had two fully developed lungs (instead of one developed and one rudimentary) they still couldn't cough like we do - because they have a much weaker, simpler diaphragm structure. It's our diaphragm that lets us cough and hiccup with force... as well as being able to breathe while running.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

At the end of the day pal (and hard to understand by some), RFUK isnt the be all and end all of the reptile world, far from it. If you are happy your collection is clean then breed away. You might not sell anything on here but there are plenty of other places to advertise. I'd probably use a different username tho as there are sad-acts that waste their lives on more than one forum that will try and stir things up for you. The truth is, IBD is pretty rare, its an internet buzz word


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## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

hysteria_uk said:


> At the end of the day pal (and hard to understand by some), RFUK isnt the be all and end all of the reptile world, far from it. If you are happy your collection is clean then breed away. You might not sell anything on here but there are plenty of other places to advertise. I'd probably use a different username tho as there are sad-acts that waste their lives on more than one forum that will try and stir things up for you. The truth is, IBD is pretty rare, its an internet buzz word



thanks mate 
well if i win the euro millions tonight i will get the whole collection tested anyway and get my own facilty :2thumb:

lol


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

clive1973 said:


> i respect your opinum but as snakes only have one lung and dont cough then i still feel that the major risk is from snake mites and blood to blood contact. If imd was airborne then we most people going to a pet shop everyweek then there would be a huge outbreak


 that isnt what i meant at all.. and the fact you FEEL somoething doesnt make it scitnifically viable.. I am not a scientist therefore have read extensive reports..

what I meant was.. if for example a snake had IBD and it was transferable in moisture particles then it could be transferred in those particles not by a snake coughing.. there HAS outbreaks of snake diseases before in the reptile community and breeders have culled collections before..

its only a matter of time till it happens again especially as so many people dont bother the same witrh reps to have them Pmed and tested...

anyone with suspected IBD who doesnt test is a poor keepr in my eyes.. and the VERY REASON an outbreak of diease COUD happen.. someone careless enough not to have tests done when they suspect something is a poor example.. but that happens daily, hourly in reptile community..

snakes die.. lizards die.. noone bothers finding out reasons.. its cheaper to replce.. soon people will forget and I cna crack on with breeding again..

I suspected disease in my collection years ago and had animals tested.. someone I know also had one of her snakes post mortemed and as mine had been in proximity to hers at one stage i was worried when both showed signs of RI very quickly advanced and severe literally overnight..we drew blanks and nothing was proven despite extensive testing with vets and labs.. the Pm did not show IBD or any other disease.. but the 2 snakes i had then are still the only 2 i have now.. they seem fit and well.. grow nicely.. no signs of disease but i refuse to risk an animal because i want to breed ..

the animals I have are a carpet python and a royal.. the risk simply isnt not fair to others if i decided to breed. I err on side of caution..

we can argue the rights and wrongs all day here.. but its whether you are a risk taker with animals that is the deciding factor here..

Im not..


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

hysteria_uk said:


> At the end of the day pal (and hard to understand by some), RFUK isnt the be all and end all of the reptile world, far from it. If you are happy your collection is clean then breed away. You might not sell anything on here but there are plenty of other places to advertise. I'd probably use a different username tho as there are sad-acts that waste their lives on more than one forum that will try and stir things up for you. The truth is, IBD is pretty rare, its an internet buzz word


 

so as long as im happy then that makes it ok.. total lack of responsible keeping there.. but then just because we are al interested in reptiles doenst make us all safe keepers not wanting to risk breeding animals who could potentially have issues... same old same old.. and the very reason WHY we risk outbreaks are people liek you in the cuddle-crew.

OO your snakey is pooing green.. OOOO its ok.. OO breed it anyway dont matter.. ARE U HAPPY MATE.. then go for it.. OOO.. dont worry what the nasty other RFUK people say.. dont matter what your snake died of IBD??? really.. COOL can i have 10 babies from you.. i aint bovvered mate .. 

i hope your snakes dont catch internet buzz words then.. what will you do run a virus check and cleanse them.. what a stupid comment to make.. seriously..
:whistling2:

I wonder at the total idiocy on here!!!!

youre the type of person who doesnt believe someone could have HIV cause they LOOK pretty and make you laugh.. and as long as YOURE happy


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

hysteria_uk said:


> At the end of the day pal (and hard to understand by some), RFUK isnt the be all and end all of the reptile world, far from it. If you are happy your collection is clean then breed away. You might not sell anything on here but there are plenty of other places to advertise. I'd probably use a different username tho as there are sad-acts that waste their lives on more than one forum that will try and stir things up for you. The truth is, IBD is pretty rare, its an internet buzz word



I can't begin to describe how irresponsible that comment is. If someone is aware of the past problems, at least they could make an informed decision as to whether it was worth taking a risk and buying an animal from the OP and thereby, _potentially _at least, putting the rest of their collection at risk. What you are doing is encouraging the OP to, at best, be economical with the truth and, at worst, be downright duplicitous. With that sort of attitude, no wonder problems like IBD and crypto will continue to be propagated. What is needed in such situations is honesty; unless everyone is upfront, there's no hope of containing such problems.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

you both may step down from your collective soap boxes


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## Mr Man (Jan 8, 2008)

clive1973 said:


> Stand corrected, which ones ?


carpet pythons have 2 lungs :2thumb:


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