# Gut loading for leopard gecko



## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok, I am new to this, so very basic questions coming from me.

I have a cricket keeper and it has water and potato in it at the moment. So I was wondering, if I was to put better food in there, some kind of gut load mix, would I have to also gut load them? I am guessing potato isn't good enough gut loading before I feed my gecko?

Also, what is the best food for gut loading? Right now I have some crickets in a sandwich bag with some carrot, and they are munching away happily. How long will they have to munch before they are loaded? 24 hours?


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi good things to feed your crickets/locusts on are mixed salad leaves,things like spinach etc,mixes from supermarkets like florrette salad etc,grated carrot,or even a small baby carrot,apple,things like this but no citrus fruits and i wouldn't use iceberg lettuce or banana but most other things should be good.

I would take out the potato and they don't usualy do well with water unless there is a sponge in it or you can buy gel water for them.

I have a tub of gel water and a tub of gel cricket feed that i wont be using if you want them for the price of postage.Let me know if you want them and i will see what postage will be.


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok, so if I chuck them in the cricket pen, will I still need to gut load as well, or is the good diet in the pen enough? Also, when I gut load, how long do I do it for?


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

littlefoot said:


> I would take out the potato and they don't usualy do well with water unless there is a sponge in it or you can buy gel water for them.
> 
> I have a tub of gel water and a tub of gel cricket feed that i wont be using if you want them for the price of postage.Let me know if you want them and i will see what postage will be.


The water has a sponge there so no drowning tonight!


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Feeding them in their cricket pen is what gut loading is.The food that you feed to them is gut loading,just feed them on a good varied diet in their pen and take out old dried up food daily and replace with fresh that's gut loading


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

Cool! Ok, so they have had potato and a water source? I know potato is not perfect, but will it be good enough to feed by gecko?


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

I feed my bugs on mixed leaves/carrot and other veg/grapes/apple/cereal/crushed dog or cat biscuits about twice a week : victory:


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

It will not harm your gecko to feed them these crickets but obviously the better the food you feed the better it is for the gecko.Just get some better foods into them as soon as you can get some,but yes they will be fine to feed your gecko.The ones that have been eating the carrot will be better unless you mixed them with the others in the keeper already.


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

I tried feeding him yesterday, he wasn't interested. So I dropped some meal worms in front of him today, still not interested. So will leave the crickets to have a good dinner tonight, have put some meal worms in his dish and will leave them there tonight. Tomorrow night I will throw him some crickets.

Is it OK to have them left there over night with him? I have done before and most of them were gone by morning (if not all).


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I personally never leave any insects in my leopard geckos viv.He will not touch meal worms so i don't bother leaving them in for him other wise i would.Apart from mealworms in an appropriate escape proof dish,I wouldn't leave anything in.

Having said that,this is only my personal choice.My leopard gecko eats what i feed him at a certain time every night and then that's it.Other people have different ideas and routines.I can't stand the thought of any insects biting him or bothering him while he is trying to sleep.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

I feed my bugs every 24 hours to ensure they are always gutloaded and healthy so they dont eat each other!
Keeping them i have them in RUB's as i find in the cricket keeper with food you tend to get a moisture problem and they die off.

I feed mine generally whatever i have around but usually spring greens,potato, carrot etc.

My mealworms live in a bed of porridge oats and get ed spring grrens as well, This means they have a substrate to live in which they also eat as well.

Dont leave any fom of insects that cannot be contained in a dish in with your gecko overnight, They can and will bite your gecko :/

Hope this helps


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

I guess this comes down to a general feeding question then. When I put my dusted crickets in, he doesn't give a F***K, so after 15 minutes they are still there and have wondered off to hide. Is this normal?

Should I keep offering him crickets every 2 days, then removing them if he doesn't eat them? Should I also leave some mealworms in the dish over night in case he is hungry and can go find them? I don't want him starving...


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Kyral210 said:


> I guess this comes down to a general feeding question then. When I put my dusted crickets in, he doesn't give a F***K, so after 15 minutes they are still there and have wondered off to hide. Is this normal?
> 
> Should I keep offering him crickets every 2 days, then removing them if he doesn't eat them? Should I also leave some mealworms in the dish over night in case he is hungry and can go find them? I don't want him starving...


When they are young they should be eating daily.

What i do is offer him the crickets every evening and remove any he does not eat within 10-15 minutes.
Mealworms can then be left in a dish overnight. I would put 10 mealies in the dish and then you know if he has eaten any.
Remember to remove the uneaten mealies the next day to gutload them and replace with the fresh gutloaded ones.


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## Kyral210 (Apr 13, 2013)

dramen said:


> What i do is offer him the crickets every evening and remove any he does not eat within 10-15 minutes.
> Mealworms can then be left in a dish overnight. I would put 10 mealies in the dish and then you know if he has eaten any.
> Remember to remove the uneaten mealies the next day to gutload them and replace with the fresh gutloaded ones.


Ok, I will do the mealworm thing from now on, and daily crickets. He didn't eat any of them. The temperature was 27C, now it is set to a higher 34C. Maybe the rise in temp will bring back his appetite!


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

littlefoot said:


> Hi good things to feed your crickets/locusts on are mixed salad leaves,things like spinach etc,mixes from supermarkets like florrette salad etc,grated carrot,or even a small baby carrot,apple,things like this but no citrus fruits and i wouldn't use iceberg lettuce or banana but most other things should be good.
> 
> I would take out the potato and they don't usualy do well with water unless there is a sponge in it or you can buy gel water for them.
> 
> I have a tub of gel water and a tub of gel cricket feed that i wont be using if you want them for the price of postage.Let me know if you want them and i will see what postage will be.


What is wrong with the ocassional use of banana, and oranges ? I would certainly prefer my insects to have that than water gel crystals.

Those bagged salads you can buy from the supermarket are usually grown in very unnatural soils and given high doses of artificial fertilisers, fungicides and pesticides. Dandelions/clovers found in the garden would have much higher nutrient levels.

If you want your insects to have the maximum levels of veg nutrients, then feeding them water crystal gels is counter productive.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi,the water crystal gel was only in place of water not food as i thought the o.p was giving water in a dish so i suggested water with a sponge or gel water.Also the gel food is actualy pretty good stuff,it has the calcium,phospherous and vitamins in it that they need and it doesn't dry out as quickly as other foods,also it was not to be used in place of fresh foods it was to be used in conjunction with fresh foods.

As for citrus fruits,it has been known to cause diarrohea in some insects and also citrus fruit is not a good thing to feed to certain lizards either so i would say avoid using it for gut loading.Banana is very high in phosphorus and potassium and also turns yucky very quickly.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,the water crystal gel was only in place of water not food as i thought the o.p was giving water in a dish so i suggested water with a sponge or gel water.Also the gel food is actualy pretty good stuff,it has the calcium,phospherous and vitamins in it that they need and it doesn't dry out as quickly as other foods,also it was not to be used in place of fresh foods it was to be used in conjunction with fresh foods.
> 
> As for citrus fruits,it has been known to cause diarrohea in some insects and also citrus fruit is not a good thing to feed to certain lizards either so i would say avoid using it for gut loading.Banana is very high in phosphorus and potassium and also turns yucky very quickly.


Banana can also block calcium absorption which kinda defeats the purpose


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

dramen said:


> Banana can also block calcium absorption which kinda defeats the purpose


How does banana block calcium absorbtion ? What is the chemical involved ?


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> How does banana block calcium absorbtion ? What is the chemical involved ?


I think its because it has a high content of oxalic acid that binds with the calcium and doesnt allow the body to absrob it properly. Its the same advice given to humans who are put on calcium supplements to avoid foods that contain high amounts of it.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

littlefoot said:


> Hi,the water crystal gel was only in place of water not food as i thought the o.p was giving water in a dish so i suggested water with a sponge or gel water.Also the gel food is actualy pretty good stuff,it has the calcium,phospherous and vitamins in it that they need and it doesn't dry out as quickly as other foods,also it was not to be used in place of fresh foods it was to be used in conjunction with fresh foods.
> 
> As for citrus fruits,it has been known to cause diarrohea in some insects and also citrus fruit is not a good thing to feed to certain lizards either so i would say avoid using it for gut loading.Banana is very high in phosphorus and potassium and also turns yucky very quickly.


It will start to get very tricky to know how to dust insects if you use gels with added mins/vits. 

Its a very different matter in my opinion using oranges directly to lizards as compared to using it ocassionally for insects. Oranges are very high in vitamins including vit C of course, and is high in calcium too. 

Banana is high in phosphorus and pottasium, but very few of the veggies out there actually have a good cal/phosphorus ratio. The diet can easily be supplemented with calcium powders.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

dramen said:


> I think its because it has a high content of oxalic acid that binds with the calcium and doesnt allow the body to absrob it properly. Its the same advice given to humans who are put on calcium supplements to avoid foods that contain high amounts of it.


I personally think it is important to provide a wide variety of veggies and fruits for optimum nutrition. The key is rotation. Things will balance out in the long run. Many good green leafy veggies have oxalic acid in them. I can't personally see a problem with using banana as part of a wide variety of foods for nutrient enriching crickets and other insects.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> I personally think it is important to provide a wide variety of veggies and fruits for optimum nutrition. The key is rotation. Things will balance out in the long run. Many good green leafy veggies have oxalic acid in them. I can't personally see a problem with using banana as part of a wide variety of foods for nutrient enriching crickets and other insects.


I totally agree but you can do that with plenty of other varieties without the need to include banana as part of that. I'm not saying dont use it at all but it should not be used as a staple diet for any insect or reptile.
Curly Kale for example is another one recommended as an occasional veg for a bearded dragon but is high in the oxalic acid but thats why its an occasional feeder.
Banana just appears to have a VERY high content of it so should be a rarely rather than occasional even for insects as what you feed your bugs stops them absorbing calcium and so it does not get passed on to your lizards.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

There's an easy solution.i will do it my way and you do it your way


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> I personally think it is important to provide a wide variety of veggies and fruits for optimum nutrition. The key is rotation. Things will balance out in the long run. Many good green leafy veggies have oxalic acid in them. I can't personally see a problem with using banana as part of a wide variety of foods for nutrient enriching crickets and other insects.


While a variety is good generally, if you dont understand what you are feeding, then its not really going to 'even out'. The main reason we began gut loading insects was due to their having a poor Ca ratio. Ideally you want to feed reptiles a 2:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorous. Banana, for instance, has a Ca ratio of 1:5, a similar problem with many vegetables. Since there are other ways of getting calcium and vitamins in your gut load besides banana, there is no need to include such a high source of phosphorous into the insect feeders diet. Instead use vegetables that have a high Ca ratio, things like alfalfa, numerous squash, spring greens, etc to help improve the nutrition of the insects. 

Oxalic acid is another thing to consider since it also binds to calcium and makes it unavailable for absorption in reptiles. Its the reason things like spinach, which are high in calcium, are not recommended. Even though its high in calcium, spinach is also very high in oxalates so the calcium is essentially rendered useless. 

In regards to oranges, just make sure to remove the peel first. Citrus fruit has a chemical in the oil that is detrimental to both the nervous and reproductive system of many insects. While its not harmful to your reptile its been used for many years as a common insecticide. 

Dusting has been shown to be much less effective than gut loading with high calcium diets. If you want to use that calcium dust more effectively, coat your veggies in it prior to feeding your insects. That has a much greater effect.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

All the research I read suggests that reptiles need a diet with a ratio of cal/phos of around 2.1

If the typically used insects consume alfalfa, squashes and spring greens are they going to have this ratio ? Does that mean I can stop dusting the insects with calcium ?

Can you show me any research that shows that dusting veggies with calcium works better than dusting the insects ? How do reptiles in the wild survive without somebody around to dust their livefoods veggies ?

This time of year I use around 5-10 kilos of oranges a day for my insects. I don't see any harm to my insect production (i breed all the insects I need). I find the insects know the flesh is palatable and the skins are not. Each day I simply remove the uneaten skins as I put in fresh food.


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