# African Cichlid stocking guide



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Is there anything online?

I'm just interested how many say, per gallon would be good for adult cichlids.

Also, lets say you were having 50 in a 150 gallon ( I dunno) would it be safe to start with youngsters in this size tank and let them grow, or start with a smaller tank and upgrade?


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

I always grow my cichlids up together. Always have if im honest. Not gonna really make much of a difference as if there gonna fight then there gonna fight. You just cant tell.

Will all depend on what species your looking to keep as far as stocking. But I always packed my Africans species in a tank and it helped to eliminate terrotorial squabbles.

Obviously making sure the filtration etc can cope with the added stocking.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

caribe said:


> I always grow my cichlids up together. Always have if im honest. Not gonna really make much of a difference as if there gonna fight then there gonna fight. You just cant tell.
> 
> Will all depend on what species your looking to keep as far as stocking. But I always packed my Africans species in a tank and it helped to eliminate terrotorial squabbles.
> 
> Obviously making sure the filtration etc can cope with the added stocking.


exactly... my mbuna i packed in... but i did water changes every other day or so... massive filtration...

but a really crowded tank of mbuna works great...

it takes work though... they love water changes...


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

This may help I have found the cookie cutters on this site work very well in the past.
Cookie Cutter - 55-gallons


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

To add to that link I posted. I think over stocking a tank works but it's not the only way and it's not the best way to go. I think that if you carefully plan what fish you are going to keep and make sure you have the correct male to female ratio and make sure you don't mix fish that have similar colors, And by that I mean don't put male fish in that are the same color as the female of another fish. For example some people go out and get say a red fish and a blue fish and think they will be fine but in truth it turns out that the red fish is a male of one type but looks identical to the female of the other type of fish you have and gets raped to death. Also knowing how aggressive each type of fish you choose helps, if you pick one of the more aggressive types and mix it with one of the types that are not so aggressive then you could have problems. I think most people just buy a bunch of mixed fish from a tank in a fish shop, overstock and hope for the best. It works but knowing what fish and what number to mix works much better.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

HABU said:


> exactly... my mbuna i packed in... but i did water changes every other day or so... massive filtration...
> 
> but a really crowded tank of mbuna works great...
> 
> it takes work though... they love water changes...


What about just massively overfiltering?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> What about just massively overfiltering?


 nitrates build up.. trace minerals get exhausted...

mass filtration just buys you time between water changes...

it's nothing to pull a few gallons out of a tank and replace it...

takes 5 minutes... 

but mbuna love it... you can see the difference after a water change...

mbuna are meant to live crowded... lake malawi is huge... but mbuna are crowed together in the rocks on the shoreline...

they need very clean water... fresh water... hard water... but also need to live together in crowded condition...

water changes and crowding them is the way...


i've had 30 in a 29 gallon tank... they bred like crazy with nearly daily water changes and crowded conditions...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Well obviously I'd do a water change, I just do fancy doing more than 50% a week.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

I do around 50% a week at the moment if im honest with the Dovii and Jags.

But there in a small 4 foot tank just now as there young but getting fed 3 x a day.

I do hate doing water changed but will hate more when I upgrade them to there permanent tank even if it will just be the Dovii pair in there and possibly a female Jag.

Good filtration will eliminate the need to do as large water changes but as you know cichlids can be proper messy feeders.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, I hate water changes even on my two small tanks. For something large I'd think about getting a pump.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

personally id say nothing smaller than 180 litre tank for mbuna for peacocks or haps u wanna go say 300litres, tanganikans and shell dwellers u may go smaller but frontosa need huge tanks they get real big erm ur best bet is to check out lakemalawi.co.uk there really helpfull i breed a sell mbuna i find them the most interesting and interactive be warned though u need to overstock as said before or u will get agression now ur gonna get aggression anyways with these but with the overstocking it and agressive fish will dilute its anger over various other tank mates not chase one till it kills it as u will find ul get one dominant male, u want a ph about 7.9 and a temp 28degrees c unfortunatley i dont know much about victorians apart from there really hybridised which is a bad thing apparently in the fish world or for genuine species really expensive if u have any questions give me a pm ive been breeding mbuna a while im currently sat here looking at about 30 baby yellow tailed acei and a metraclima fainzilberri thats holding oh an be warned ul have babies coming out ur ears u get 2 choices let the spit in the tank and let nature take its course if any survive or get a breeding tank the females left alone to spit in then take her out but its easy to get over run luckily my local aquarium has a deal for babies for food so they sort of pay for themselves


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Is there anything online?
> 
> I'm just interested how many say, per gallon would be good for adult cichlids.
> 
> Also, lets say you were having 50 in a 150 gallon ( I dunno) would it be safe to start with youngsters in this size tank and let them grow, or start with a smaller tank and upgrade?


What do you mean by african?

For example, you overstock mbuna (by about 20% normal stocking levels). This DOES NOT apply to all cichlids from lake malawi mind!

You deliberately understock cichlids from Lake Tanganyika (by about 20%) because their highly territorial nature means they kill off each other if overstocked etc.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Mbuna I think, thems my faves.

Cichlids seem a good choice as my Ph is pretty much 8.0.


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Water changes are easy. 
I've got a smaller jug, scoop the water out and put it in a large bucket. bucket full - empty in garden.
Bit of dechlor in bucket, fill with fresh water, pour back into tank. Done.

Takes 5 mins! : victory:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Just RAM em in its all I used to do demonsai, acei , cobalts and labs are nice and cheap as chips


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

I have a pump that lifts the water out the window and on to the plants below as my tank is beside the window.

Nice and easy to change especially when the big tank eventually arrives.

Just hate filling it back up.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

For big tanks I'd use a pump.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

get a brewing bucket for water changes there like a huge bucket that way less trips lol


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I have two already!


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

i find this interactive guide is a good help 

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Think I am going to get a big water VAT and fill that up with a we air stone at the bottom and leave at the back door and keep that de chlorinated.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> i find this interactive guide is a good help
> 
> AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor


Unfortunately stocking calculators like this are alwas flawed. I clicked on Adonis plec as it was on the first page. I know these are imported regularly and I know they grow to 3' in length. But this calculator reckons they only grow upto 2'.

If they don't state the real potential size of fishes you're knackered. 

WWW.FISHBASE.ORG is far more reliable.


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

I have a 400 litter tank and about 35 fish of all different types. Two external 1000 litters per hour turn over each plus a powerhead directed upwards to agitate the water surface for oxygenation. My fish do really well on a 30-50% water change every week. And I also move the rocks around every few months to stop territorial issues.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Yeah the calcs are pretty useless IMO.

For example I clicked on wolf cichlid and an 84" by 30" by 24" tank and they said that wasnt big enough for a single fish......

Eh, yes it is. By a large margin.

It says they get to 24" but I have never seen one in captivity over 17".

So they are ok for general info but thats about it.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> Yeah the calcs are pretty useless IMO.
> 
> For example I clicked on wolf cichlid and an 84" by 30" by 24" tank and they said that wasnt big enough for a single fish......
> 
> ...


Think outside the box.....

The reason you've never seen one in captivity achieve it's full potential is because people are not giving them enough space.  You'll have only ever seen young or stunted specimens.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> Think outside the box.....
> 
> The reason you've never seen one in captivity achieve it's full potential is because people are not giving them enough space.  You'll have only ever seen young or stunted specimens.


Find me one thats 24" thats even in a monster tank.

Even MFK dont have any nearing that.

The biggest is about 19.5".

In the wild 24" is possible no doubt.

But you could say that about so many fish.

I have seen oscars at 15 - 16" but most get to around the 12" mark regardless of the room that they are given.

Same with RBP. I have seen them up beyond a foot and with massive bulk, but I have seen a group of 6 kept in a 350g with dither fish and the biggest is 9" and there all around 5 years old so fully matured.

Dovii get big no doubt but a Managuense has the same chance of getting to a similar size, yet people say the tank size needed for them is half.

Unfortunately you will get people commenting that have never kept nor even seen certain fish but feel the need to comment on what they have read on the internet. Emailed Jeff rapps about it as well and he says that a 180g (us) is what he recommends for an adult dovii. Thats about a 6-2-2. I trust his opinion, although I will be using a larger tank than that. I only have a pair on there own and there still in a grow out so have plenty of time in the 4-2-2 until they need upgraded.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> Find me one thats 24" thats even in a monster tank.
> 
> Even MFK dont have any nearing that.
> 
> ...


You do, but I've seen each and every species you mention. Working in the trade previously you tend to see lots. Especially when you import direct yourself. 

It's no secret that that the aquatic industry would fail financially if all fish were housed properly. Importers and exporters (even those with reconised names) are renowned for quoting sizes that will keep fish alive but that won't allow them to reach their full size or potential.

As for the Moron Fishkeepers Forum (MFK) it is quite possibly the least respected aquatic forum out there. It's full of kiddies collecting tankbusters. There are a small handfull of serious keepers, but they're extremely rare on there. Yes Fishbase does quote the maximum size, but you've still missed the point on whats needed to grow fish on properly.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> You do, but I've seen each and every species you mention. Working in the trade previously you tend to see lots. Especially when you import direct yourself.
> 
> It's no secret that that the aquatic industry would fail financially if all fish were housed properly. Importers and exporters (even those with reconised names) are renowned for quoting sizes that will keep fish alive but that won't allow them to reach their full size or potential.
> 
> As for the Moron Fishkeepers Forum (MFK) it is quite possibly the least respected aquatic forum out there. It's full of kiddies collecting tankbusters. There are a small handfull of serious keepers, but they're extremely rare on there. Yes Fishbase does quote the maximum size, but you've still missed the point on whats needed to grow fish on properly.


No I aint missed the point. Can you please tell me what YOU believe will be needed to grow this fish on as that would be of help.

Giving your experience is great, im pleased you worked in the trade..... As was I brought in to turn the fortunes around of an aquatics department that when finished was featured in the PFK, I have Also kept cichids for over 2 decades as well as odd balls. I do know what I am talking about (before you write back I am not looking for a argument or who has done what etc as I generally dont play well with others and cant be bothered with the usual flexing rubbish) :war:

There are plenty of morons on EVERY forum that you go on... :whistling2: But my argument still stands. Show me a picture of a 24" Dovii as you never mentioned that.

They dont usually get near to there maximum size no matter what room is given to them. Regardless what you say about MFK (I am not a fan but there are alot of Dovii keepers there with 500g tanks) and if they cant get a male up to that size of tank then what can.

So if I am missing your point then please enlighten me as that would genuinely be of use to me. Sorry to the OP as this has gone off topic of your tank stocking issues.

So please if you can post links of the Dovii etc or even pm me them then that would be great. 

I believe in regular water changes and feeding a variety diet of high quality foods, with large powerful filters and giving the fish as much room as possible. 250 UK gallons is plenty of room for a pair of Dovii on there own which is what they will get.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> No I aint missed the point. Can you please tell me what YOU believe will be needed to grow this fish on as that would be of help.
> 
> Giving your experience is great, im pleased you worked in the trade..... As was I brought in to turn the fortunes around of an aquatics department that when finished was featured in the PFK, I have Also kept cichids for over 2 decades as well as odd balls. I do know what I am talking about (before you write back I am not looking for a argument or who has done what etc as I generally dont play well with others and cant be bothered with the usual flexing rubbish) :war:
> 
> ...


lol you really have missed the point. Twenty years aint that long. Maybe in your early days you'll have read about the head of the American cichlid association and his pet cichlid.  Before the days of the 'tinternet.

Not that dovii have anythink whatsoever to do with my point. 

And yes, you do indeed get the wannabee morons on here.  You know the type, always go for predatory fish on the large size. Probably own a chavvy dog thinking it's hard. And probably drive a chavvy car like a modded (insert suitable make and model here). ATB.


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## owlbassboy (Jun 26, 2008)

My Automatic Water Changer - Setup

what about something like this, if you google automated water changes there's loads of links about how to go about it


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Mynki said:


> lol you really have missed the point. Twenty years aint that long. Maybe in your early days you'll have read about the head of the American cichlid association and his pet cichlid.  Before the days of the 'tinternet.
> 
> Not that dovii have anythink whatsoever to do with my point.
> 
> And yes, you do indeed get the wannabee morons on here.  You know the type, always go for predatory fish on the large size. Probably own a chavvy dog thinking it's hard. And probably drive a chavvy car like a modded (insert suitable make and model here). ATB.


Handbags at five paces. . . . . March!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

chalky76 said:


> Handbags at five paces. . . . . March!


Haha! Not really. I used to be site staff on the PFK and another aquatic forum a long time ago. Seen it all before and much more. Can't be arsed these days.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

I hope your not referring to me as some sort of chav etc.

Do I drive a chaved up car = NO
Do i own a hard dog = NO
Do i wear track suits = NO
Do I listen to dance music = NO

But its over opinionated crap that actually comes out in your posts reading previous things you have written.

Its p****y ass know it alls that get to me. People who think they know EVERYTHING when really they actually have nothing of any benefit at all to say.

Rather than having this on a public forum please feel free to email me and I can speak to you further if you actually have anything of use to say apart from putting lol and winking icons.

But since clearly you know more than EVERY other user on here then you should start posting informative things instead of the same old crap.

Got to go away to buy a RTC for a 35g tank need to get there before the shop closes.


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