# Lab mouse breeding



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi

Im new to the mammal section as I have had to turn to breeding mice for my snakes, as what should cost £30 for mice a week now costs over 200€ including P&P and the mice rarely arrive frozen, etc. I want to keep the mice as happy as possible and cull them humanely. I have done a great deal of research without having to post here, so much that I was so confident as to buy a male and two females. I am still confident but there is a few questions I would like to ask if possible.

The pet shop kept the sexes together, and they have been in an Exo Terra together for 12 days now since I bought them. They seem happy and are eating and gaining weight. As of Monday the male weighed 30 grams and the females 24 and 25 grams. 

I have spare enclosures set up ready to move the male and weaned juveniles, but I have read conflicting reports all over the place. Some say leave the sexes together resulting in multiple litters, but I don’t want to do this as giving the female her rest after litters ties in with the whole keeping them happy as possible for me. Some say remove the male, but I have read that some mice will get lonely or too bored on their own. The only other thing I thought of, and I don’t know if this is acceptable, is to purchase 2 or more pairs of females and creating 2 or 3 groups in which I could rotate the male giving the mums a good rest. I could cope with the amount of babies produced from this (I have a lot of reps) but I wanted to get some input from other, more experienced keepers. Any suggestions?

I also wanted to know if people separated after a certain amount of days or go by the condition and weight of the mum? I have read to remove the male after between 10 and 16 days. These are (I think) normal lab mice, and are around the size of the large-giant mice sold as snake food in Reptile shops, is there a certain weight they pass when they are overweight or pregnant? I weigh them a few times a week so this could help.

Heres a pic of them. Im in the middle of making a 2nd floor, the wheel hasn't injured anyone but i will remove it when babies come. The food is the main thing that worries me. The woman gave me a hamser diet that has lots of sunflower seeds, i am trying to make my own, but havent found the right stuff yet.



















Thanks a lot and if anything is unexplained ask and I will try to answer best as I can, I’m new to this lol, and feel much more confident with Sankes and Lizards. I didn’t know whether to post this here or in the feeder section so I hope this is the right place.

Thank you very much

Bill


----------



## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

i use dog food and pig nuts for my mice and rats, i would buy a lab cage if i were you, a hell of a lot easier to clean, ect. i use a converted rub for mine, its essentially a giant lab cage


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

firebelliedfreak said:


> i use dog food and pig nuts for my mice and rats, i would buy a lab cage if i were you, a hell of a lot easier to clean, ect. i use a converted rub for mine, its essentially a giant lab cage


Thanks firebelliedfreak. I have mixed a few bits of dog food to the mix i currently use, but I have only added a handful to the 4kg of other seeds and stuff. Would you recommend more? 

I have looked at the lab cages (as i was only using the exo terra while i get used to the whole process) and i'm thinking about a RUB conversion like yourself. Im just trying to find the mesh for the lids (plenty of leads).

Any other suggestions eagerly welcome: victory: especially to do with seperating.

Bill


----------



## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

firebelliedfreak said:


> i use dog food and pig nuts for my mice and rats, i would buy a lab cage if i were you, a hell of a lot easier to clean, ect. i use a converted rub for mine, its essentially a giant lab cage


thats also what i do. i breed them for my monitors so on.. feeding them dry dog food and pig nuts seems to work fine im now on 7 genirations each time only buying a new male for new blood. i use 1 male and put it in with females then soon as they all look preg i move it to the next so on. i also keep mine in rub in a rack kinda like a snake rack. hope this helps


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

I used to keep groups of 3-4 females and rotate the male between them. leave him in for 2 weeks to make sure he gets the females pregnant then move him to the next lot.
I also had 2 additional RUBs for male and female weaners. As soon as they were 4 weeks old and sexable the young ones were put into those RUBs. Then you can grow them onto the size you want. Or as your mums get a bit old for breeding, you can grow on some daughters to replace them. I used to cull off the males at a smaller size, once they get to 6 weeks and get their hormones they start to stink. :lol2:

You want 6mm mesh - cut out a large panel on 2 sides of the RUB and fix mesh over it. I drilled holes round the cutout and stitched the mesh into place with wire, or you can use cable ties.

I used to feed them on a basic rabbit mix with some extra dog biscuits and veg for protein. I also gave pregnant and nursing mums mealworms.

If you are concerned about making their environment happier, buy them wheels, they absolutely love them. Although mine were feeders they still had wheels, millet sprays and cardboard boxes and tubes to play on.


----------



## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Mine are fed on hamster and gerbil mix. Sunflower seeds and peanuts are fattening, but to be honest thats not a problem with breeders because they need the extra fatty foods and protein anyway


----------



## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

bw89 said:


> Thanks firebelliedfreak. I have mixed a few bits of dog food to the mix i currently use, but I have only added a handful to the 4kg of other seeds and stuff. Would you recommend more?
> 
> I have looked at the lab cages (as i was only using the exo terra while i get used to the whole process) and i'm thinking about a RUB conversion like yourself. Im just trying to find the mesh for the lids (plenty of leads).
> 
> ...


 i would do a 50 50 split, the dog food gives them fat and protein needed for the birthing and the seeds will add the fibre. i mixed in a 1kg bag of rat and mouse food and a 4kg bag of dog mixer, that worked well for the mice.

my rub conversions look crap but they do the job, if you make them nicely they look really good. i also use a food hopper on the top made of a cylindrial piece of mesh that they eat through, saves the food from getting dirty.
you will need to get the smallest mesh possible for the mice, hard to find and expensive, i use the mesh from wilkos for my rats.


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi everyone, thanks for the helpful replies. I think i will do the rotating method, you guys seem to have had good success. I just hope my females dont give birth until i have others, otherwise i will have to keep him alone for a day or two (and play with him loads) till i get a female

Again thanks, youve all helped a lot, if anyone has anything else to add im all ears: victory:

garlic pickle - did you find with a group of 3-4 females your mums got a decent enough rest, or would you recommend an extra group or 2? I have an wheel in at the moment (with one spare) but i will buy more. They have boxes to play and nest in, cardboard tubes, and a peice of wood to chew. Iv been looking for new toys, they love their wheel so I might put both in for now lol.

Bill


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

firebelliedfreak said:


> i would do a 50 50 split, the dog food gives them fat and protein needed for the birthing and the seeds will add the fibre. i mixed in a 1kg bag of rat and mouse food and a 4kg bag of dog mixer, that worked well for the mice.
> 
> my rub conversions look crap but they do the job, if you make them nicely they look really good. i also use a food hopper on the top made of a cylindrial piece of mesh that they eat through, saves the food from getting dirty.
> you will need to get the smallest mesh possible for the mice, hard to find and expensive, i use the mesh from wilkos for my rats.


:lol2:Then I haven't added enough dog food (mine is aout 2% dogfood). Unless i read you wrong, you suggest mostly dog food with some sunflower seeds? Or is that added to other seeds and grains.


----------



## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

bw89 said:


> :lol2:Then I haven't added enough dog food (mine is aout 2% dogfood). Unless i read you wrong, you suggest mostly dog food with some sunflower seeds? Or is that added to other seeds and grains.


i simply put 2 bags in, i use a mixed seed based diet with kibbly bits and then the extra dog food. also they seem to prefer the dog food over the seeds


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

firebelliedfreak said:


> i simply put 2 bags in, i use a mixed seed based diet with kibbly bits and then the extra dog food. also they seem to prefer the dog food over the seeds


Thanks a lot, I will try this: victory::2thumb:

Bill


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

bw89 said:


> garlic pickle - did you find with a group of 3-4 females your mums got a decent enough rest, or would you recommend an extra group or 2? I have an wheel in at the moment (with one spare) but i will buy more. They have boxes to play and nest in, cardboard tubes, and a peice of wood to chew. Iv been looking for new toys, they love their wheel so I might put both in for now lol.
> 
> Bill


It depends on how many groups of females you have. I used to have 3 groups, each with 3 or 4 females. So I'd put the male in with group 1 and leave him for 2-3 weeks then swap him to group 2 (get him out before the females give birth otherwise he will get them pregnant again straightaway)
So while the male is in with group 2, group 1 are looking after their babies. Then after another 2-3 weeks move him to group 3, by which time group 2 are ready to have their babies and group 1 have pretty much weaned theirs and can have a rest for a few weeks. 

If you find you are getting more babies than you need, the male can be housed in his own RUB for a while with some of his newly weaned sons, to give all the girls a rest and slow things down. He won't hurt young males as long as they aren't mature and there are no females present. But TBH adult males are happy enough on their own for short periods. mine used to sleep all the time. I reckon he was worn out!


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

garlicpickle said:


> It depends on how many groups of females you have. I used to have 3 groups, each with 3 or 4 females. So I'd put the male in with group 1 and leave him for 2-3 weeks then swap him to group 2 (get him out before the females give birth otherwise he will get them pregnant again straightaway)
> So while the male is in with group 2, group 1 are looking after their babies. Then after another 2-3 weeks move him to group 3, by which time group 2 are ready to have their babies and group 1 have pretty much weaned theirs and can have a rest for a few weeks.
> 
> If you find you are getting more babies than you need, the male can be housed in his own RUB for a while with some of his newly weaned sons, to give all the girls a rest and slow things down. He won't hurt young males as long as they aren't mature and there are no females present. But TBH adult males are happy enough on their own for short periods. mine used to sleep all the time. I reckon he was worn out!


Thanks garlicpickle, legend.

I was thinking of four groups of 2 females. I had a big illustration drawn up on paint and it went along the lines of the schedual you mentioned. I didn't think about housing the male with his immature sons, thanks for that tip, this gives me options. 

Looks like i will be buying a few more females ASAP:devil:

Thanks again:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## firebelliedfreak (Nov 3, 2008)

bw89 said:


> Thanks garlicpickle, legend.
> 
> I was thinking of four groups of 2 females. I had a big illustration drawn up on paint and it went along the lines of the schedual you mentioned. I didn't think about housing the male with his immature sons, thanks for that tip, this gives me options.
> 
> ...


 make sure to kill of your male every few cycles though, keep bloodlines fresh and stopping inbreeding


----------



## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

Will do, its pretty easy for me to source different mice in different shops, theyre only €2.50 (about £2.20) so it's not bad. 

Bill: victory:


----------

