# crone the hopefully new to be caiman



## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

I thought I would share this with you.

I looked into gettin a dwa some time ago but the prices in the areas I planned to live in made it impossible! (price wise) 
I have now established myself and I am going through the 8 week stage of my licence, I am really suprised how low the price is round here! I found public liability insurance for £85 per annum for the one species. The vet check is 60 pound and the licence is £130 for the year. I thought long and hard about what to keep as a dwa animal in the end I decided crocodilians as arachnids dont interest me and im happy to admit my mentoring is not up to scratch for venomous snakes (maybe in the future), thought about a gila monster but I here they are hard to come by? So crocodilian wise im gonna start with a spectacled caiman, got my setup all ready its a fab tank/viv setup with land and water, filtration, in and out waterheating, dimmed lighting you name it, lots of plant growth etc. I have gone though the protocals, locks and signs on viv and door, My council didint require me to have double doors which is good for me lol I havent got the caiman yet but already decided on the name crone lol I did my degree in crocodilians last year and have worked with a couple of species of caiman, and a american alligator.

Will upload pics of setup and my new lil friend when it all goes through.


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Cool! Looking forward to seeing the pics :2thumb:


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

I have uploaded some pics of some previous friends lol (in my album)


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

your from the south east 

it wasnt at yarmouth where you worked with the crocks was it 

there is a place on the sea front that has some dwarf and spec caimans and a realy big american aligator


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

Nope afraid not.


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

get a pic of your setup up mate i have a specticled caiman and love him to bits took 14 years to get one


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

Yea keep meaning to take da pics lol what sort of setup you use? 14 years wow, Im sure there was a post just recently in the dwa classifieds for some for sale.


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

he is just over 2ft long and he is in a 7ft by 3ft fish tank with about 8" of water and a gravel bank at one end with the right lighting and a realy big exturnal pump and filter as tis is verry important for the cleanleynes lol


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

lol yea what filtration you using? I found a couple of external fluvas work well.


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

same here mate once he is in a big enclosure it will be swapped to a big pond pump and filtration system


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

yea will have to do that too.



jacko1 said:


> same here mate once he is in a big enclosure it will be swapped to a big pond pump and filtration system


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

get the pics up mate dying to see it


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> I thought I would share this with you.
> 
> I looked into gettin a dwa some time ago but the prices in the areas I planned to live in made it impossible! (price wise)
> I have now established myself and I am going through the 8 week stage of my licence, I am really suprised how low the price is round here! I found public liability insurance for £85 per annum for the one species. The vet check is 60 pound and the licence is £130 for the year. *I thought long and hard about what to keep as a dwa animal in the end I decided crocodilians as arachnids dont interest me and im happy to admit my mentoring is not up to scratch for venomous snakes (maybe in the future), thought about a gila monster but I here they are hard to come by?* So crocodilian wise im gonna start with a spectacled caiman, got my setup all ready its a fab tank/viv setup with land and water, filtration, in and out waterheating, dimmed lighting you name it, lots of plant growth etc. I have gone though the protocals, locks and signs on viv and door, My council didint require me to have double doors which is good for me lol I havent got the caiman yet but already decided on the name crone lol *I did my degree in crocodilians last year* and have worked with a couple of species of caiman, and a american alligator.
> ...


Sorry, could just be the cynic in me, but this just doesn't ring true. Plus 2 points of your post really jump out at me.
Why were you so dead set on keeping a DWA animal, without knowing full well exactly what you wanted to keep? Venomous snakes? hmmm, not good enough. Arachnids? Nah, not interested. Gila monster? Tough to get hold of..... but I've got to have something dangerous to show off with.... I know, I'll get a croc.
And where exactly can you do a degree in Crocodillians?
Like I say, this all just doesn't add up. If you do get a caiman - and I hope you don't - then the way you write makes it sound like a default purchase, as opposed to one of consideration and down to genuine passion.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Dave, Dave ,Dave......come on you arnt seriously saying that someone would come on here and start a thread saying that they are having this or that and talk complete BS. Thinking that all the people on the forum will think they are so impressive, when actually they think they are idiots and anyone who does that sort of thing should really see a shrink as that must be suffering from some sort of mental condition or really need to get a life.....sorry dave those days im sure are long gone im sure the posters are totaly genuine and will post some fantastic photos of setups and animals . Personaly im really looking forward to seeing them.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Sorry Lee, there I was just starting to have faith in humanity again and POW. Another retard.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Although I have to agree, can't wait to see the pics. Wonder if I can find the same ones with google....


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

while your there mate as you have nothing better to do go into my album and find those ones on google too! oh rite you will probaly tell me they are from my local zoo or petshop when you wont find them.



terciopelo_dave said:


> Although I have to agree, can't wait to see the pics. Wonder if I can find the same ones with google....


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

Well it isnt up to you my friend what I keep. What doesnt ring true to you is clearly a view point of yours and not factual perhaps if you had concern for a newbie dwa keeper you could of pmd me asking a bit more about it but clearly your not interested but just want to stir.

Are you telling me when you go to the pet shop you dont think in your head I could get this or I could get that? I was merly experessing my thoughts, experience and what I was/was not interested in. 

Gila monster I hear these are hard to come by tho??? question!
Venomous snakes would like to! but not mentored enough!

I did a herpetology degree which involved a large section of crocodilians towards the degree. 



terciopelo_dave said:


> Sorry, could just be the cynic in me, but this just doesn't ring true. Plus 2 points of your post really jump out at me.
> Why were you so dead set on keeping a DWA animal, without knowing full well exactly what you wanted to keep? Venomous snakes? hmmm, not good enough. Arachnids? Nah, not interested. Gila monster? Tough to get hold of..... but I've got to have something dangerous to show off with.... I know, I'll get a croc.
> And where exactly can you do a degree in Crocodillians?
> Like I say, this all just doesn't add up. If you do get a caiman - and I hope you don't - then the way you write makes it sound like a default purchase, as opposed to one of consideration and down to genuine passion.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> Well it isnt up to you my friend what I keep. What doesnt ring true to you is clearly a view point of yours and not factual perhaps if you had concern for a newbie dwa keeper you could of pmd me asking a bit more about it but clearly your not interested but just want to stir.
> 
> Are you telling me when you go to the pet shop you dont think in your head I could get this or I could get that? I was merly experessing my thoughts, experience and what I was/was not interested in.
> 
> ...


There is not one university in the UK which offers a sole degree in herpetology. Only a very few offer a module on herpetology on their zoology courses. Most zoology courses, mine included, have a module on vertebrate zoology with a single lecture on reptiles (and in mine I ended up having a heated "discussion" with the lecturer who was getting everything wrong), the reason for this is that zoology is far more than learning about zoo animals, it is more to do with ecology, parasitology, evolution, populations, genetics, etc.
So to say that you did a degree in herpetology which included a large section on crocodilians is not true.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

ian14 said:


> There is not one university in the UK which offers a sole degree in herpetology. Only a very few offer a module on herpetology on their zoology courses. Most zoology courses, mine included, have a module on vertebrate zoology with a single lecture on reptiles (and in mine I ended up having a heated "discussion" with the lecturer who was getting everything wrong), the reason for this is that zoology is far more than learning about zoo animals, it is more to do with ecology, parasitology, evolution, populations, genetics, etc.
> So to say that you did a degree in herpetology which included a large section on crocodilians is not true.


cant wait to see the reply to this Ian

cold blooded but primewned8:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

leecb0 said:


> cant wait to see the reply to this Ian
> 
> cold blooded but primewned8:


I'm not holding my breath for one.........


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

ian14 said:


> There is not one university in the UK which offers a sole degree in herpetology. Only a very few offer a module on herpetology on their zoology courses. Most zoology courses, mine included, have a module on vertebrate zoology with a single lecture on reptiles (and in mine I ended up having a heated "discussion" with the lecturer who was getting everything wrong), the reason for this is that zoology is far more than learning about zoo animals, it is more to do with ecology, parasitology, evolution, populations, genetics, etc.
> So to say that you did a degree in herpetology which included a large section on crocodilians is not true.


Well said Ian, you beat me to the punch there.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> Are you telling me when you go to the pet shop you dont think in your head I could get this or I could get that? I was merly experessing my thoughts, experience and what I was/was not interested in.


That's a moot point. When considering owning a DWA animal your first step is not browsing your local pet shop. Although if you're interested I believe you actually CAN do a degree in shopping studies. Mainly in the US if I'm not mistaken.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

these threads just get better and better lol!


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> while your there mate as you have nothing better to do go into my album and find those ones on google too! oh rite you will probaly tell me they are from my local zoo or petshop when you wont find them.


Ok, you cast the bait, I took it. In this very thread you state "I've uploaded some pics of previous friends". Emphasis on previous, ergo not the caiman you claim to have now, ergo, not yours. Also, the other pic is a gator. Ergo, not yours. Need I go on? Ok, you mention in several of your older posts a reptile rescue in Essex. Maybe a source of your pics? I could be wrong, but I suspect not. 
Have I made my point?
The DWA keepers on here are all experienced, knowledgable, and genuinely passionate, and I know I'm not the only person who is offended when someone makes a mockery of what we've all worked hard to achieve. If you want help as a self-professed "newbie", then simply ask and yee shall see, but if you come on and just chat :censor: then you can expect responses in kind.


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

IACE open university involving a course and placment soly on HERPETOLOGY which involved a section on crocodilians. Look it up!!!

Maybe the way I wrote my original post came across to you in the wrong way, I often get asked by people why did you choose this animal to keep so I expressed why I chose crocodilians.

This is not a wind up I did not work out all these quotes cause I was bored.

This was a genuine thread that you have destroyed of mine, I dont see why i should now share anything further with you least of all pictures! 

You said we are all experienced knowldgeable dwa keepers on here and dont like our time bein wasted. Yet instead of talking to me properly all you have done is come on here and straight away point fingers and accuse, you dont come across to me as a bunch of decent helpful dwa keepers if this is the way you come across.


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

wow your mature!



leecb0 said:


> cant wait to see the reply to this Ian
> 
> cold blooded but primewned8:


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

It scares me that you guys on here are dwa keepers when this is how you communicate to other people, what a scary thought you lot woking with dwa animals! Think I will join a dwa section which communicates professionaly and doesnt waste my time as all you lot have accused me off!

As I said if any of you had pmd me asking me generally I would of been more than happy to tell you bout my qualifications my experience, pictures Ie had you name it! Dont see why I should when this is how you treat me after I post a genuine thread!


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## Phasmid (Sep 17, 2008)

Dont know if this is of any use but cold blooded but prime did his placement at dwarf in essex, with the caimens and American aligator we had, for about 6 months.


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## Crotalus atrox (Dec 12, 2008)

I have met cold blooded but prime a few times now and I have got to be honest he has himself one amazing collection of reptiles, he is always talking about the new dwa setups he is planning. I dont think he is the sort of person to be a time waster. 

Very helpfull chappy :2thumb:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Phasmid said:


> Dont know if this is of any use but cold blooded but prime did his placement at dwarf in essex, with the caimens and American aligator we had, for about 6 months.


Not really the best advertisment for the guys abilities as from what i know this is one of the most slated rescues in the country due to poor husbandry and lack of knowledge



Cold blooded but prime said:


> IACE open university involving a course and placment soly on HERPETOLOGY which involved a section on crocodilians. Look it up!!!
> 
> :lol2: you have done a corispondance course in animal behaviour through a company called compass this is nowhere near a degree infact its not even close to a BTEC. Remember there are people on here who know what they are talking about
> 
> ...


There are a lot of people who come on here saying they are something they arent, your downfall was saying you have a degree in herpetology, and as there is no such thing people start to question everything you say. now you slag all the people on here that you may need to help you if you are genuinly wanting to keep a dwa animal. this section of the forum had been almost ruined by people posting similar posts to what you have posted.
If you are genuine you will get lots of help from the many genuine DWAL holders on here. You say you worry for all the DWAL keepers on here, problem is WE worry for all the DWAL wannabies who think that keeping these animals is easy. 
We all have made a huge comitment to keep the animals we do in time, effort and money. i personaly believe it is a unique privilage to keep such animals. If you are genuine cool no problem ask for advice and the caimen keepers will help you im sure but you start having a go at the very people whos help you may need is not going to endear yourself to them, ask Viperlover. And at the end of the day slaging off the genuine DWAL keepers doesnt bother us



Cold blooded but prime said:


> wow your mature!


well i did turn 40 yesterday:lol2:


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## phil010390 (Feb 10, 2008)

*hi*

hiya how do u go about getting your degree in crocodilians as iv looked into it but couldnt get anywhere thanks in advance


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## shytalk (Jan 9, 2010)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> It scares me that you guys on here are dwa keepers when this is how you communicate to other people, what a scary thought you lot woking with dwa animals! Think I will join a dwa section which communicates professionaly and doesnt waste my time as all you lot have accused me off!
> 
> What scares DWAL holders is people like you saying they have a degree when all you have is some poxy piece of paper not worth the paper its written on after doing some micky mouse course. luckly to get a DWAL they have to be inspected buy a knowledgable professional who has a proper qualification.
> 
> As I said if any of you had pmd me asking me generally I would of been more than happy to tell you bout my qualifications my experience, pictures Ie had you name it! Dont see why I should when this is how you treat me after I post a genuine thread!


YOU posted on a public forum that you had a degree so you should not moan if you are questioned about it PUBLICLY. The photos in your album are from DWARF so they arnt yours


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> *IACE open university* involving a course and placment soly on HERPETOLOGY which involved a section on crocodilians. Look it up!!!
> 
> Maybe the way I wrote my original post came across to you in the wrong way, I often get asked by people why did you choose this animal to keep so I expressed why I chose crocodilians.
> 
> ...


You are still talking BS. So you now claim that your "degree" is an Open University course - shame, cos I just had a look and there is no such thing. I will now have a look for an IACE open university course, which I have never heard of, ad will take a wild guess that it is one of those highly recommended "universities" used to obtain visas to enter the UK.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

This the place your "degree" is from??...

IACE - The Institute for Animal Care Education

Take a look, their site is a joke, makes no mention of official accreditation, and , oh shock horror, doesn't even list a "degree" or even a "course" in hereptology.
I could sit and write a course on herpetology and charge unsuspecting muppetts to enrol, I would make a fortune, they get something that is worth.................naff all.

You are not studying for a degree at all. 
This is yet another example of fake "colleges" cashing in on people's naivety.


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

I dont want to leave this up in the air as such with what has been said, 
I hope to get on well with the dwa section as I plan on keeping a bigger variety of dwa in the future I just got a bit winded up with such strong replies when it could of been easily explained if I was asked politly but yes I admit perhaps the way I wrote my op was not as good as can be so let me re write my original post and hopefully we can get on a bit better? Sorry took me a while to reply been sooo busy!

This is a genuine thread today I recived my licence paper part and will now be filling it in. 

Hello all I plan on keeping my first dwa animal in the upcoming months I have already sorted out so much and look forward to the experience I have got all my quotes sorted for the prices and although have never kept a dwa at my home I have worked with dwa animals before. I decided to keep a caiman after much thought as although I do like snakes too I dont feel I am mentord as well in this field. I did my placment at dwarf for a little while with the caiman and aligator ian had but I didnt get on there well for reasons mentiond about the slating that place has had etc The course I did was open university and it was a herpetology course done by the IACE yes as mention you get certificates etc but they are not an awarding body but the modules were very interesting and helpful in my experience. It was a diploma not a degree this bit I did get wrong. 

Yes the pictures are from dwarf of the crocodillians not mine, I never said they were mine and will upload pics of crone asap when I get my licence.

Thnx for reading


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> I dont want to leave this up in the air as such with what has been said,
> I hope to get on well with the dwa section as I plan on keeping a bigger variety of dwa in the future I just got a bit winded up with such strong replies when it could of been easily explained if I was asked politly but yes I admit perhaps the way I wrote my op was not as good as can be so let me re write my original post and hopefully we can get on a bit better? Sorry took me a while to reply been sooo busy!
> 
> This is a genuine thread today I recived my licence paper part and will now be filling it in.
> ...


Can't speak for everybody, but I respect that you've posted something humble, respectful, and apologetic.
I also apologise for being instantly critical. In recent months there's been a lot of crap posted on here by overnight experts and I think it's got a few of us rather defensive. 
Good luck with the caimen. I've had a few in the past so if I can help with anything, drop me a message.
Dave


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Cold blooded but prime said:


> I dont want to leave this up in the air as such with what has been said...





terciopelo_dave said:


> Can't speak for everybody, but I respect that you've posted something humble, respectful, and apologetic.
> I also apologise for being instantly critical...


:notworthy: Hooray for that! 

Looking forward to seeing the pics once you get it all sorted.
Ahhh the safety of the DWA forum... :blush::cheers:


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

Thnx mate mite do that!



terciopelo_dave said:


> Can't speak for everybody, but I respect that you've posted something humble, respectful, and apologetic.
> I also apologise for being instantly critical. In recent months there's been a lot of crap posted on here by overnight experts and I think it's got a few of us rather defensive.
> Good luck with the caimen. I've had a few in the past so if I can help with anything, drop me a message.
> Dave


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## Cold blooded but prime (May 22, 2009)

I have been speeking to the lady who sorts out the licence in my area earlier this week and she was telling me that all the councils have been waiting about the new regulations with the dwa licence that should of come in months ago but could now step in at any time something about it changing from yearly to 2 years so it might be worth waiting till they find out as you can then apply and hold the licence for 2 years before renewal instead of 1 year. Anyone else heard this? Is it worth waiting or this something that has been on going and unlickly to change?

chrz


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## jacko1 (Jul 4, 2009)

been told april


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

The Licence runs from 1st of Jan till the end of the year so all the keepers on here would have had there inspection and paid for there renewal so it wont really matter to us untill next renewal. If it was me and i was going to the expence of building a room and getting the licence for the first time i would get it before it comes into effect. That way you dont have to fork out for two years licence fee and build a room and purchase vivaria and equipment and insurence.....etc. then when you come to renew next year and if its finaly in force you can pay for the two years


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