# Roborovski Hamsters + Mice = ??



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

*Before you start shouting/cursing/been a complete d***, please make sure you read the whole starter thread. Thankyou *

_Ok im currently doing some research into the behaviour of roborovski dwarf hamsters and mice socialibility. From the 12th of april 2009 i will be slowly introducing a male roborovski hamster with a female mouse. _

_These are my initial plans:_


*In one realy usefull box for a hour duration keep a male roborovski dwarf hamster (Phodopus roborovskii) and a two female (Mus Musculus) in a 84lt realy usefull box for the duration of 1 hour using a plastic middle to seperate them. This will take place in the morning of 12th april 2009.*

*Later on in the day i will remove i will once again place both species into the 84lt realy usefull box and this time not use a plastic barrier. This will be for 5 minutes and will only be interupted if sexual reproduction signs show or threat of injury to any of the animals occur. I will be there watching this closly and jotting down and usefull information.*

*If plans show that the two animals successfully lived with each other for 5 minutes then later on during the evening i will keep them together for 30 minutes monitoring there behaviour watching and jotting down any information. Once again this will only be stopped if sexual reproduction takes place or injury to either animal occurs.*
_From what i conclude from this depends on whether i am going on to the next stages._

*PLEASE NOTE I HAVE NO INTENTION EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST OF BREEDING THE TWO SPECIES!! I THINK THIS IS BOTH WRONG AND WOULD CAUSE MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR THE OFFSPRING AS THE BODY FEATURES OF A ROBOROVSKI AND A MOUSE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!*

_Here are some of the reasons i am going ahead with the plan;_

_Both species are noc-turnal._
_They both have the similer, if not the same diet._
_I want to answer a question that has been asked more than once before._
_Im a *sad* individual who wants something to do on pet cleaning day._

_I will take pictures and photographic evidence of this to show your my findings. It is not just the case of keeping the two species together._

_If these plans all work out i will then be trying with a female roborovski and two female mice for longer durations and i will be monitoring the behaviour the same. _


*Reptilover, ill keep the thread updated with what i've found out ect. Please post your opinions and express your'e views.*

: victory:


----------



## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

they could breed in that time together surely. sorry but i think its pointless. what happens if they do breed?


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

lizardloverrach said:


> they could breed in that time together surely. sorry but i think its pointless. what happens if they do breed?


Hence the reason I will be watching them for the entire time. I will be closly keeping a eye on them with a pen and paper in my hand jotting down the behaviour. The reason im starting with a male first is because i believe if the males and female carnt get along then the females definatly wont. 

Thats why i wont breed them, it would cause major disformed problems.. you know the two heads.. 7 legs.. 1 tooth thing. :bash:

This is pretty pointless as no one cares or gives the slightest :censor:... but people have asked wether they can be kept together. If they can then great :2thumb: This is what im out to proove.


----------



## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

Reptilover said:


> Hence the reason I will be watching them for the entire time. I will be closly keeping a eye on them with a pen and paper in my hand jotting down the behaviour. The reason im starting with a male first is because i believe if the males and female carnt get along then the females definatly wont.
> 
> Thats why i wont breed them, it would cause major disformed problems.. you know the two heads.. 7 legs.. 1 tooth thing. :bash:
> 
> This is pretty pointless as no one cares or gives the slightest :censor:... but people have asked wether they can be kept together. If they can then great :2thumb: This is what im out to proove.


it's not pointless as such, but i would be very worried incase they managed to breed....while your looking at your pen and paper :lol2: they are pretty fast! and if they can be kept together, some ignorant, irresponsible idiots WILL let them breed :bash:


----------



## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

Its science, it isnt pointless at all!!! It is all research, without which we would still be like developed cavemen!! 

One thing I would do though is create a hypothesis (theoretical outcome) and then use findings to either prove or disprove!!)

GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN!!

Ben


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

lizardloverrach said:


> it's not pointless as such, but i would be very worried incase they managed to breed....while your looking at your pen and paper :lol2: they are pretty fast! and if they can be kept together, some ignorant, irresponsible idiots WILL let them breed :bash:


:lol2: Im sure there not that fast for my eyes :gasp:

Also if some complete :censor: of a person decided they wanted to breed them they would probly end up *FAILING *anyway as the genetics between the two animal are completely different and the chances of the sperm of a roborovski actually fertilising a mouse is highly unlikely. Either way we have to accept there's :censor:heads out there like that...

Thanks for your curiousity. : victory:




bpc said:


> Its science, it isnt pointless at all!!! It is all research, without which we would still be like developed cavemen!!
> 
> One thing I would do though is create a hypothesis (theoretical outcome) and then use findings to either prove or disprove!!)
> 
> ...


_I agree.. if einstine didn't decide to nearly blow himself up then we wouldn't have half the things we had today... reasearch is essential for the human race to develop. I have a rough estimation on whats going to happen in my head and will type it down soon to share my ideas._

Thanks for your comment


----------



## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

Exactly, the majority of research scientists (myself included) are still met with a large degree of sceptisism (sp???) we have to rise abouve peoples floggings and doubts to push forward research that WE believe is worthwhile, whether for healthcare, money making, or fun, its al the same!!

Look forward to seeing your conclusion!!

Ben


----------



## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm sorry but this isn't _science _they is no scientific purpose if they is whats your scientific hypothesis to what your going to do! mice and hamster's should be kept separate, they need different care, mice are no nocturnal if they are will you tell my 150 odd that they should be asleep

also your mice and hamster may be OK together but every animal is differnt and someone might see thats yours are ok and mix, then one ends up been injured or dead.


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

*Substrate Issues:*

_Only just thought this through, a while back i did a experiment on wether sand or wood shavings were better for roborovski's and my conclusion told me that sand was by far more natural and better for them. So now my roborovski is on sand whilst my mice are on wood shavings._

_I know have the problem on decided what substrate to use during the experiment. I know that mice can adapt very quickly to anything but may try to eat the sand which is not all too great. However i know that both species can be kept on wood shavings. So i am going to be using wood shavings for it._

*Strengh Issues:*

_I know for definate that a roborovski is much heavier in comparison to a adult female mouse and therefor can surpress body weight easier. This is the reason i am using two female mice and only one male roborovski to take all the strain from the one famale. _



bosshogg said:


> I'm sorry but this isn't _science _they is no scientific purpose if they is whats your scientific hypothesis to what your going to do! mice and hamster's should be kept separate, they need different care, mice are no nocturnal if they are will you tell my 150 odd that they should be asleep
> 
> also your mice and hamster may be OK together but every animal is differnt and someone might see thats yours are ok and mix, then one ends up been injured or dead.


Your right this is'nt science.. its just a bored person trying to find out wether roborovski dwarf hamsters and mice can live together. If there is any anomous behaviour in them i will note it down and come to sumary at the end and will relate it towards my prediction. 

You might say that hamsters CARNT live together with mice.. have you tried it? Have you even done the slightest REAL research on them? I very much doubt it and this is the reason for me doing it then if they dont get along i can say to people than they carnt be put together and i will have proof/fact.

Mice are nocturnal by the way.. and so are roborovski dwarf hamsters.
You say care is not the same.. i find that it is. Both my roborovski's and my mice have the same setup just the mice dont have monkey nuts. (also my roborovksi has sand but they can live on woodshavings just like mice).

I will be doing more research than just this one day, and wont be saying wether someone should keep them together or not untill i have hard factural proof.

Thankyou.. RL.


----------



## miss_rawr (Mar 18, 2009)

why not start off with two females to avoid to prgnancy issue?


----------



## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

your trying to breed don't lie if you was you would be using same sex, your just trying to cover it up by calling it an experiment


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

miss_rawr said:


> why not start off with two females to avoid to prgnancy issue?


As i stated earlyer on im using a male as if males do not get along i believe that females wont either and therefor saves a whole lot of time. I can guarentee i am not tyring to breed them as i think this is sick ans just cruel as mutations and god knows what else would emerge and thats even if the female survived.

Thanks for your interest.



bosshogg said:


> your trying to breed don't lie if you was you would be using same sex, your just trying to cover it up by calling it an experiment


How about you go get alife before going around accusing people of lieing.. why the :censor: would i decide to breed two completely different animals. IM ANSWERING A SIMPLE :censor: QUESTION. This is CSI.. its no big coverup of the misterious plot of crossbreeding animals. You have not even the singliest right to tell me im lieing. Im trying to find out a simple thing that will answer a question... do you seriously have a problem with someone trying to find things out??

I dont like ranting but your telling me im lieing when you have not even the slightest idea your talking about, seriously i dont want to start a conflict but your just bang out of order. 

Edit: Also if im just trying to cover it up then why the F*** would i post it on a public forum anyway? If i was seriously so bothered about cross breeding animals then why would i bloody post this.. i just wouldn't tell now one...!!


----------



## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

why the hell are you doing it again same sex groups get on fine you don't have the risk of breeding, I do get snotty as someone will read this and think oh if hes doing it that means I can do it and animals getting injured kind just cos someone thinks its fun to try. really I have a rat and a chinchilla maybe I should put them together just to see


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> why the hell are you doing it again same sex groups get on fine you don't have the risk of breeding, I do get snotty as someone will read this and think oh if hes doing it that means I can do it and animals getting injured kind just cos someone thinks its fun to try. really I have a rat and a chinchilla maybe I should put them together just to see


_Its not quite as simple as that.. if you read you will see im doing it in stages.. im not just plonking two animals in together and let them fight to the death.. infact im not even just plonking them in. There starting with a divider in between to test for any agression. Then the divider will be removed allowing them to come into contact with each other (Both have been in my care for months and months and are free from disease and parasites). I know where you coming from to some extent as i wouldnt place a rat and a syrian together as its been proven that syrian hamsters are highly agressive. Same with the fact i wouldn't put a syrian and mouse together as the syrian would probly each the mouse. However i believe different with the mouse and the roborovski. Both are socialiable, both are nocturnal, they eat the same things ect ect._

_But seriously dont go around throwing false accusations._

*Thankyou, RL.*


----------



## izzyki (Jan 18, 2009)

if you weren't trying to breed them why put your title as that then? 
i think what you are doing is stupid you are just putting the animals at risk so whats the point? because your bored, i think your the one that needs to get a life.


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

izzyki said:


> if you weren't trying to breed them why put your title as that then?
> i think what you are doing is stupid you are just putting the animals at risk so whats the point? because your bored, i think your the one that needs to get a life.


Please make sure you read the whole thread before commenting as i've explained what im doing, the title does suggest that i mean breeding them but it also suggest's keeping them together so i understand where your coming from. I have *NO *ideas for even trying to breed them, i think its just as cruel as you do. Im also not just doing it for "Fun", people have asked before wether you can keep them together, is it realy so bad to try and answer that question? Also the only reason i told him to get a life is because he called me a lier when i am not lieing in the slightest. Suppose if i said i was a human i would be a lier.

Also at no point in this are the animals at risk, im there.. watching them contously throughout the time. Even if they begin to squable or show signs of sexual reproduction the entire thing will be stopped.

That brings it all back to the point why do people mix other species such as lizards ect.. is it realy worth the risk..?

I appreiciate your understanding.


----------



## izzyki (Jan 18, 2009)

i still see no point in what you are doing, for the split second that you look at your paper to write something down, the hamster or one of the mice could attack the other and cause it serious harm before you have chance to do anything, even if you did manage to get them off of each other before they killed each other, the odds are that they would die anyway frm the damage caused. do you think you could let this happen to your pets in the name of 'science' because i know i couldn't.

but if you are going to do it anyway which it looks like you are, good luck to you because i wouldn't like to clean up the mess if the inevitable happens.

x


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

izzyki said:


> i still see no point in what you are doing, for the split second that you look at your paper to write something down, the hamster or one of the mice could attack the other and cause it serious harm before you have chance to do anything, even if you did manage to get them off of each before they killed each, the odds are that they would die anyway frm the damage caused. do you think you could let this happen to your pets in the name of 'science' because i know i couldn't.
> 
> but if you are going to do it anyway which it looks like you are, good luck to you because i wouldn't like to clean up the mess if the inevitable happens.
> 
> x


I realy do understand what your saying and i would probly say the same if i thought the person doing it didn't know what he was doing. But i think i do know what im doing and i have it all set out.

Its in a controlled enviroment, In the middle of a room, with a daylight lamp (at day intervals) and several objects to help me seperate them if anything did happen and of course equiped with my camera. If i realy do start getting nervous as of course i dont want none of them to get injured then i will get secondry help which will probly be my mother who is comfortable around the pets. 

Just for clarification the two mice are already living together. 

Also if i do become too wary closer to the time i will close the entire thing as i do love my pets and wouldn't want anything to happen.

Once again thanks for your concern. :2thumb:


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

if he was trying to breed them i pretty much doubt he'd have come on here first and told us. Probably waited till it had happened or till they'd been at it and come up with some story that a mouse escaped and.........


----------



## DementisMulier (Feb 23, 2008)

robomice..... cool.


----------



## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

ffs!!! somebody has obviuosly asked this question!!
and for once rather than just giveing a close minded NO.. this person is actualy trying to find out teh facts about it.. and under CONTROLED conditions!!! this erson is not saying "please throw all your aniomals in one big pen" nor are they saying "lets breed mutants" they are trying to find an answer to a question and actualy find out taht answer them selfs!! god anyone doing anything for them selfs these days seems to outrage people!!

why does everything have to be an argument!


----------



## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

They will not breed. It is not possible. Only animals of the same species or genus can interbreed. Animals from the same Genus (e.g. Lions and Tigers) can breed but produce infertile offspring (Ligons, Mules etc). Mice are from the genus mus and roborovski hamsters from the genus phodopus. They don't even belong to the same family of rodents so breeding is an impossibility.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Given how distantly related hamsters are to mice (they're different families, let alone different genus and species - sort of like expecting to get viable offspring by crossing a giraffe to a roe deer; I've never heard of a successful mouse/rat cross even though they're in the same family) ... what you're going to have is animals who are competing for the same sort of resources. If they have the same activity periods and eat the same food, then they're going to see each other as *competitors*.

Now, I DID try to see if a group of mice would raise a runty baby rat...

They killed it.

And ate it.

You might have some success trying to get a female mouse to raise hamster pups - or vice versa - but I personally would NOT introduce adults to each other.


----------



## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

why would u want 2 know if they get along??

even sometimes the same spices fight i have had female mice fight b4.

IMO this is totally pointless, why can u not house them separtly, why r u wanting 2 have them living 2geva. i think there is no need for this so called experiment, it will cause stress on the animals n even harm, its not like anyone despartly needs this researching n it will change lives, ur just bord n need sometime 2 do.


----------



## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

Just to throw a spanner in...

I kept mice and robos together for _years_ when younger. No problems at all - they even bred (mice to mice, robo to robo obviously) and raised their litters together in a big squeaky heap. The females were especially sociable with each other - the female mice would groom the robos while they slept.


----------



## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

I havent kept small rodents for years, but to be fair, if this experiment has never been tried before, how the feck can you so surely say they cant be housed together? 

This sort of research goes on in a professional manner, its called animal behaviour study, difference is they tell no-one about it, I wonder why.....

A world full of closed minds is a world standing still!!


----------



## naz_pixie (Oct 6, 2008)

bpc said:


> I havent kept small rodents for years, but to be fair, if this experiment has never been tried before, how the feck can you so surely say they cant be housed together?
> 
> This sort of research goes on in a professional manner, its called animal behaviour study, difference is they tell no-one about it, I wonder why.....
> 
> *A world full of closed minds is a world standing still!!*


totaly agree


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

9Red said:


> Just to throw a spanner in...
> 
> I kept mice and robos together for _years_ when younger. No problems at all - they even bred (mice to mice, robo to robo obviously) and raised their litters together in a big squeaky heap. The females were especially sociable with each other - the female mice would groom the robos while they slept.


Did you introduce the mice to the robos when they were all adults, or as juveniles? I would have thought getting them used to each other from tiny would be best.


----------



## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

I would love to know the outcome of this and hope you will update us : victory:


----------



## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Did you introduce the mice to the robos when they were all adults, or as juveniles? I would have thought getting them used to each other from tiny would be best.


The robos were all adult with the mice added as recently weaned youngsters.


----------



## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i have also housed a mouse and a hamster together it was a male mouse who had stopped eating after his cage mate died and a male russian hamster both were adult and used to come out and play together, they both lived happily for over a yr untill they both died of old age  putting the hamster with the mouse made the mouse start eating again as he must have been pineing for his friend


----------



## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

:lol2: Most bored people do the crossword or walk the dog


----------



## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

DementisMulier said:


> robomice..... cool.


_:lol2: I likeit.. but nah.. breeding will not happen has stated just abit further up the thread._




*Thanks for all your comments, all have been taken on bored and apprecieted. Your idea's and opinions are fully welcome and i will update you as soon as it goes ahead. *

*As i've read some of you have kept them together in the past and had great success. I will also be sharing my finding in closer details including images and behaviour logs.*

*Thanks again, RL. :no1:*


----------



## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Good luck  For once, someone is bored and doesn't go to over 18's and remove thier clothing or go mug a granny down the off license and the forum is up in arms!!!

I say, provided you can provide a conrolled environment with suitable help at hand just in case then go for it. Can think of worse things to spend your time doing :no1:


----------

