# flightless crow



## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

well my dogs caught a crow today, 
they didnt hurt him just pinned him down but when i got over there he couldnt fly, 
he is very thin and weak and struggles to walk let alone fly.
i think he was a pet that somone kicked out because he is used to being hand fed :bash:
at the moment he is in a dog cage on top of my rabbit hutch and is happy but should i put him inside instead, even though i would not then be able to go out till summer ?

what shall i do ?


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

123dragon said:


> well my dogs caught a crow today,
> they didnt hurt him just pinned him down but when i got over there he couldnt fly,
> he is very thin and weak and struggles to walk let alone fly.
> i think he was a pet that somone kicked out because he is used to being hand fed :bash:
> ...


 Well indoors will keep him warmer the colder a bird gets the more weight they lose due to turning there body fat into heat so bringing it in will help a great deal, you checked to see if its been shot? little pellet holes anywhere? try feeding some meat too, not processed meat, ims ure you can find something on goolge what they should eat. but they do eat alot


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

why dont you contact one of the several crow/corvid rescues to see if they can help?

The Corvid Network Network of Corvid rescue Centres, The page of contacts are all part of the corvid network our aim is to add as many Corvid rescuers as possible in order for these wonderful birds to have the support they need

Personaly if its weak & hungry as you say, I would bring it out of the cold.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

well i have brought him in the house now, 
he has no holes at all so things are looking good :2thumb:
i really think he is a pet that got out or was let go because i have found hurt crows and they were never this happy to take food from my hand, 
he has had a little bit of soaked toast (i know not the best but i know they like it)
and he has had a load of morio worms and crickets which he loves 
i think he will end up being a pet for life cause im not goig to dump a tame bird back out i the wild


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

123dragon said:


> well i have brought him in the house now,
> he has no holes at all so things are looking good :2thumb:
> i really think he is a pet that got out or was let go because i have found hurt crows and they were never this happy to take food from my hand,
> he has had a little bit of soaked toast (i know not the best but i know they like it)
> ...


 Well, he could be acting tame cause of it being hungry, with most birds you drop there weight to fly/train them crows and ravens do also drop there weight to train them etc not sayign he isnt wild, but he could be if its had lots of food tomorrow could be a different out come :lol2: but glad things are looking up for you and the crow : victory:


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

well thought i would get some pics of him to show everybody

http://s1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/123dragon1/jacko the crow/


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

Have already replyed to your PM regarding diet but have had a look at your pictures and have a little more to add. Your bird is about 6 months old and probably female from the size and shape of the beak and feet, although it imposable to tell for sure without a DNA test. She certanly does look very calm with your presence at the moment but as already said, this does not always mean a "tame" bird, often just a sick, weak one. you may well see a change in behaviour once she puts on some weight and feels better. I thought at first from some of your pictures that there was a wing problem but going by the rest it seems ok, more likely the inability to fly is due to the starvation than an injury. Good luck with her, and keep us updated.


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## sasca (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi, we are a avian and wildlife rescue if you would like us to take him. 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bradbury-Bird-and-Wildlife-Rescue/227128430683294


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

corvid2e1 said:


> Have already replyed to your PM regarding diet but have had a look at your pictures and have a little more to add. Your bird is about 6 months old and probably female from the size and shape of the beak and feet, although it imposable to tell for sure without a DNA test. She certanly does look very calm with your presence at the moment but as already said, this does not always mean a "tame" bird, often just a sick, weak one. you may well see a change in behaviour once she puts on some weight and feels better. I thought at first from some of your pictures that there was a wing problem but going by the rest it seems ok, more likely the inability to fly is due to the starvation than an injury. Good luck with her, and keep us updated.


yeah she is feeling better and is not so friendly anymore, 
i agree with you about the wing problem as she cant fly very well ( not much more than a flap or two after she jumps)
we are thinking about emptying out the shed and setting that up for her


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

sasca said:


> Hi, we are a avian and wildlife rescue if you would like us to take him.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bradbury-Bird-and-Wildlife-Rescue/227128430683294


no thanks, i read your post saying you dont agree with keeping animals that cant be released and after today i dont think that would work, 
she was out the back eating her tea on the patio (a nice lump of beef)
and a wild cow landed on the lawn and she just walked of and let him take it, she has no self confidence and wont defend her own food which i guess is why i found her starving


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

I have a crow that does the 2 jumps half flaps.. but lookign at it looks perfect health when we first got it checked for broken wing etc and nouthing.. its strange why it cant fly! but we feed it dead day one chicks, bird seed abit of bred just a varioty of stuff really and it isnt very freindly, but living in an averiy and were happy to look after it if its not well, the first chance it can fly it will be released if not going to keep it :2thumb:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I've also got one and mine can't be released.If anyone gets fed up of theirs in future and it can't be released I'd be interested in a companion for mine who lives out in the day but is in at night.


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

123dragon said:


> no thanks, i read your post saying you dont agree with keeping animals that cant be released and after today i dont think that would work,
> she was out the back eating her tea on the patio (a nice lump of beef)
> and a wild cow landed on the lawn and she just walked of and let him take it, she has no self confidence and wont defend her own food which i guess is why i found her starving


Crows have a very complex social structure, and a very well defined pecking order. Yours, being a young, sick/injured bird will be right at the bottom of that order, and for her to stand up to a healthy adult bird in defence of food in his teritory would not only be stupid but would show a complete lack of etiquette. That sounds like a stupid thing to say when talking about birds but corvids have a very strict code on how to interact with each other, and by standing down and allowing the dominent bird to feed she showed that she understood that. That is actuly a far more positive sign for her ability to survive in the wild than if she had tried to defend her food and almost certanly goten beaten up for it.


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## jona (Jan 1, 2009)

Isn't it illegal to keep a uk native WILD animal within the uk?.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

corvid2e1 said:


> Crows have a very complex social structure, and a very well defined pecking order. Yours, being a young, sick/injured bird will be right at the bottom of that order, and for her to stand up to a healthy adult bird in defence of food in his teritory would not only be stupid but would show a complete lack of etiquette. That sounds like a stupid thing to say when talking about birds but corvids have a very strict code on how to interact with each other, and by standing down and allowing the dominent bird to feed she showed that she understood that. That is actuly a far more positive sign for her ability to survive in the wild than if she had tried to defend her food and almost certanly goten beaten up for it.


oh ok thats good then, i would imagine they know each other if they recognize each other as she was found 5 mins away from my house 



jona said:


> Isn't it illegal to keep a uk native WILD animal within the uk?.


no you can keep them as they are classed as a pest 
i personally would never want somone to keep one that didnt need to be kept, 
i personaly am looking forward to the day that i dont have to look after her
(does that sound mean ?)


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## jona (Jan 1, 2009)

123dragon said:


> oh ok thats good then, i would imagine they know each other if they recognize each other as she was found 5 mins away from my house
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No not at all,I could imagine it's like having a 4 year old child about the home.lol


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## ArmyBoy (Dec 9, 2011)

I love crows. I had an injured crow follow me all the way home once. Love them


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

jona said:


> Isn't it illegal to keep a uk native WILD animal within the uk?.


 It is illegal to purposly catch a healthy wild animal to keep as a pet in most cases, but it is perfectly legal to take in a sick,injured or orphaned wild animal with the intention of releasing it once it is healthy again. If that animal does not recover suficiently to survive in the wild then it is illegal to release it as it is classed as abandonment, so it may be kept in captivity. depending on species it may have to be registered with DEFRA in this situation. The Carrion Crow, not being a schedule 4 species, does not need to be registered. Being a pest species does not have a bearing on whether or not it can be kept, however it does mean that it may be "killed or taken" for the purpose of pest control in certain circumstances.


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

i think you should take the bird to a proper wildlife hospital, and let them re-habilitate the bird around other crows, and learn natural behaviours among bird of its own kind, n a natural outside aviary. keeping the bird inside caged up is not a fair life for a wild animal


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

joe190 said:


> i think you should take the bird to a proper wildlife hospital, and let them re-habilitate the bird around other crows, and learn natural behaviours among bird of its own kind, n a natural outside aviary. keeping the bird inside caged up is not a fair life for a wild animal


so you think i should take a crow that cant fly/ doesnt want to fly it put in a aviary with other crows 
i phoned a rescue and they said if she shows signs of being tame they will get her put down 
and she isnt just shut i a cage, 
she has free movment of my room all day every day 
and days when i am home i let her out in the garden or take her down to the girlfreinds riding arena 
she does not act like a wild animal


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

123dragon said:


> so you think i should take a crow that cant fly/ doesnt want to fly it put in a aviary with other crows
> i phoned a rescue and they said if she shows signs of being tame they will get her put down
> and she isnt just shut i a cage,
> she has free movment of my room all day every day
> ...


even though she doesnt act as a wild animal, IT IS A WILD ANIMAL. 
phone another rescue then?!?!
a room is no life for a wild bird, that has known freedom, she should be free to fly in the wild, or put to sleep. it is so overly creul to keep this bird locked up with no freedom. 
:x


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

also may i add, that this 'tame bird' is only becoming tame due to the fact you are hand feeding it, and taking it everywhere with you. its not a parrot. at least try to make this bird wild for god sakes.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

joe190 said:


> even though she doesnt act as a wild animal, IT IS A WILD ANIMAL.
> phone another rescue then?!?!
> a room is no life for a wild bird, that has known freedom, she should be free to fly in the wild, or put to sleep. it is so overly creul to keep this bird locked up with no freedom.
> :x


how is it exactly ?
she is happy and content, 
she is a tame bird that should have not been released first time around because she doesnt know how to look after herself and i found her starving to death 
if she was wild and didnt like people and couldnt fly then yes i would put her out of her misery but she is HAPPY she now has time to have fun and she doesnt need to worry about finding food or staying safe


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

123dragon said:


> how is it exactly ?
> she is happy and content,
> she is a tame bird that should have not been released first time around because she doesnt know how to look after herself and i found her starving to death
> if she was wild and didnt like people and couldnt fly then yes i would put her out of her misery but she is HAPPY she now has time to have fun and she doesnt need to worry about finding food or staying safe


i think you'll find that she wasnt someones bird to start off with, she was just a young bird still dependent on its parents and with you providing food, was nice towards you. if your going to keep this poor poor bird, AT LEAST provide it with a very large aviary?! being stuck in a room in someones house is the furthest thing from the wild possible. do the best thing for this bird, and send it to someone who knows what there doing, as you clearly have no clue. or put the poor thing to sleep.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

joe190 said:


> i think you'll find that she wasnt someones bird to start off with, she was just a young bird still dependent on its parents and with you providing food, was nice towards you. if your going to keep this poor poor bird, AT LEAST provide it with a very large aviary?! being stuck in a room in someones house is the furthest thing from the wild possible. do the best thing for this bird, and send it to someone who knows what there doing, as you clearly have no clue. or put the poor thing to sleep.


i found her a week and a half ago, she would have been fully weaned by then and if her parents were looking after her she wouldnt be starving and she still wouldnt like people instantly, 
you clearly dont know what your talking about she would be unhappy shut out side on her own 
i have had lots of advise from somone on here that knows lots about corvids and he said if she cant be released keep her tame so she can be happy


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

123dragon said:


> i found her a week and a half ago, she would have been fully weaned by then and if her parents were looking after her she wouldnt be starving and she still wouldnt like people instantly,
> you clearly dont know what your talking about she would be unhappy shut out side on her own
> i have had lots of advise from somone on here that knows lots about corvids and he said if she cant be released keep her tame so she can be happy


i think you'll find that bird dont become 'weaned' 
the bird took to you as it was hungry and needed attention and food. i've dealt with many corvids and many are like this when picked up by members of the oubli such as yourself. you clearly do not have a clue how to look after such a bird, YOU FED IT TOAST!!! she's a bird, the live outside. it come from england so can clearly cope with the weathers, and would probably enjoy the company of birds that fly into your garden. thats if you have any. poor thing is most likely left alone for most of the day, with no company. these are highly intelligent birds that need a high level of mental stimulation. which you are most likely unable to provide.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

joe190 said:


> i think you'll find that bird dont become 'weaned'
> the bird took to you as it was hungry and needed attention and food. i've dealt with many corvids and many are like this when picked up by members of the oubli such as yourself. you clearly do not have a clue how to look after such a bird, YOU FED IT TOAST!!! she's a bird, the live outside. it come from england so can clearly cope with the weathers, and would probably enjoy the company of birds that fly into your garden. thats if you have any. poor thing is most likely left alone for most of the day, with no company. these are highly intelligent birds that need a high level of mental stimulation. which you are most likely unable to provide.


when i said weaned i ment her parents would have stopped feeding her by now, 
how do i know because i have about 30 crows come to my garden everyday to get fed i kind of notice when the chicks have to feed themselves 
the poor thing spends all day will me, i wake up feed her and leave her in her cage to eat, i walk and feed the dogs, 
i get ready for work then get her ready 
and she comes to work with me, i get home at 5 put her in my room walk and feed the dogs let her out and she has a bath and another piece of meat, 
she then chooses to sit in her cage and rest up after a fun day out.
how much experiance have you had with corvids ?
what do you do with them,


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## del_044 (Jan 29, 2007)

i dont know much about crows, but my dad and my grandad keep pigeons and they are weaned from their parents..the parents stop feeding them at a certain point. i would presume crows do the same.

in regards to it being free, it would certainly die of starvation as it cant fly. therefor it would be in the garden looking for a human too feed it. i think if you get the diet right and the bird doesnt mind being handled ect then carry on.
just be prepared to have it for the long haul if it can never fly again. if this happens i have to agree and suggest the crow is kept out side in an aviery.
in doors is ok untill the bird is the correct weight.

in regards to handling it i would be careful unless you intend on keeping it.


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

it called fledging, not weaning. thats still no life for a bird, that should be wild. and i beleive you've said it can fly now? so it can, and should be free provided the right rehabilitation. which could be provided by a wildlife hospital or centre. if you do insist on keeping the poor thing, i think that it should at the very least have some company, as they live in large flocks/murders in the wild. i volunteer in a wildlife hospital, and have done for 3 years now so have seen cast amounts of corvids in my time there.


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## del_044 (Jan 29, 2007)

joe190 said:


> it called fledging, not weaning. thats still no life for a bird, that should be wild. and i beleive you've said it can fly now? so it can, and should be free provided the right rehabilitation. which could be provided by a wildlife hospital or centre. if you do insist on keeping the poor thing, i think that it should at the very least have some company, as they live in large flocks/murders in the wild. i volunteer in a wildlife hospital, and have done for 3 years now so have seen cast amounts of corvids in my time there.


 
you dont agree with it being kept indoors but suggest that they get a couple more crows for company...what?


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

yeah she can fly about 3 foot, 
and ok ill just go and catch a few more crows so she has company ?
parrots pair for life but people keep them on there own, 
she is happy and is enjoying an easy life, 
i let her out in the garden if she could fly and wanted to she would


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

i know nothing about birds, but i know plenty about trolls, and there is one inhabiting this thread, ignore them and carry on with the sound advice you've obviously had in private.


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

I have been following and advising on the bird in question for a while and after having the social behaviour described in detail I do not belive the bird is hand reared, however I do think that in this case it was already humanised before the OP aquired it. I have delt with many young corvids of most native species, wild, hand reared and humanised, and have found most young carrion crows very nervous and untrusting, even when partialy hand reared. This bird, while it does not show social behaviour towards people as an imprint would, it has shown no fear and exibits normal feeding/playing behaviour in close proximity from the first day it was picked up. while it may be posable to get a fledgling to this point, this bird was around 6 months old when found, and as such should have behaved as a completly wild bird. This wild behaviour is often masked at first by ill health or starvation, but as the condition improves, the behaviour returns. This is not the case here, as the bird has remained just as calm in the presence of humans as before. While it is posable to humanise a wild, adult bird, this takes much more time than has been given here.
The flight problem I am not about to diagnose over the internet, however if soley starvation was to blame then the bird should be flying perfectly by now. one wing apears to be damaged. exactly what that damage is can only be properly diagnosed by a specilist vet, which I have already recomended doing, however the fact that the bird has already been kept by someone, presumably from a fairly young age for it to become so humanised, I would guess that it is a long term, or permenent injury. 
IF the injury turns out to be permenent and the bird is unreleasable then the next course of action is debatabe, and everyone has different opinions on what, if any, wild animal should spend the rest of its life in captivity. Personaly I would say that an animal that is able to exibit an acceptable degree of normal behaviour with its disability (obviously if the bird has a disabled wing then it will not fly, which is "normal behaviour", but corvids spend the majority of their life on the ground or perched, only generaly flying to move between feeding sites or escape predators, and so most of their feeding and social behaviour is displayed on the ground), and is happy and stress free living in close proximity to humans then it may be given a chance. It is generaly far easier to dehumanise a bird at a later date, than attempt to re-humanise a bird that has become wild if it is discovered later that release is not an option.
As to where to keep it. Idealy, yes, a large, outside aviary with another crow would be great, however the OP does not have access to another crow at the moment, and while human company is far from ideal, it at least provides stimulation, which living alone outside would not. This is a situation that will need sorting out if it to be permenent, either by the OP aquireing a similar disabled bird that needs a home, or by his own bird being rehoused with someone who already has one, but for the moment this is unnessicary as the future of the bird is not yet descided and depends on how the healing progresses.
Also, as a last note, While the term "weaning" is usualy reserved for mammals switching from milk to solid food, it is also frequently used to describe a young bird starting to self feed. This, in most species, happens seperatly to fledging, which is the act of leaving the nest and becoming mobile.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

corvid2e1 said:


> I have been following and advising on the bird in question for a while and after having the social behaviour described in detail I do not belive the bird is hand reared, however I do think that in this case it was already humanised before the OP aquired it. I have delt with many young corvids of most native species, wild, hand reared and humanised, and have found most young carrion crows very nervous and untrusting, even when partialy hand reared. This bird, while it does not show social behaviour towards people as an imprint would, it has shown no fear and exibits normal feeding/playing behaviour in close proximity from the first day it was picked up. while it may be posable to get a fledgling to this point, this bird was around 6 months old when found, and as such should have behaved as a completly wild bird. This wild behaviour is often masked at first by ill health or starvation, but as the condition improves, the behaviour returns. This is not the case here, as the bird has remained just as calm in the presence of humans as before. While it is posable to humanise a wild, adult bird, this takes much more time than has been given here.
> The flight problem I am not about to diagnose over the internet, however if soley starvation was to blame then the bird should be flying perfectly by now. one wing apears to be damaged. exactly what that damage is can only be properly diagnosed by a specilist vet, which I have already recomended doing, however the fact that the bird has already been kept by someone, presumably from a fairly young age for it to become so humanised, I would guess that it is a long term, or permenent injury.
> IF the injury turns out to be permenent and the bird is unreleasable then the next course of action is debatabe, and everyone has different opinions on what, if any, wild animal should spend the rest of its life in captivity. Personaly I would say that an animal that is able to exibit an acceptable degree of normal behaviour with its disability (obviously if the bird has a disabled wing then it will not fly, which is "normal behaviour", but corvids spend the majority of their life on the ground or perched, only generaly flying to move between feeding sites or escape predators, and so most of their feeding and social behaviour is displayed on the ground), and is happy and stress free living in close proximity to humans then it may be given a chance. It is generaly far easier to dehumanise a bird at a later date, than attempt to re-humanise a bird that has become wild if it is discovered later that release is not an option.
> As to where to keep it. Idealy, yes, a large, outside aviary with another crow would be great, however the OP does not have access to another crow at the moment, and while human company is far from ideal, it at least provides stimulation, which living alone outside would not. This is a situation that will need sorting out if it to be permenent, either by the OP aquireing a similar disabled bird that needs a home, or by his own bird being rehoused with someone who already has one, but for the moment this is unnessicary as the future of the bird is not yet descided and depends on how the healing progresses.
> Also, as a last note, While the term "weaning" is usualy reserved for mammals switching from milk to solid food, it is also frequently used to describe a young bird starting to self feed. This, in most species, happens seperatly to fledging, which is the act of leaving the nest and becoming mobile.



she is going to the vet on wednesday for xrays to check her wing and i have found somone local that has a wild crow but with only one wing that lives in his garden so once she is sorted she is moving into his place


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## joe190 (Jun 28, 2008)

123dragon said:


> she is going to the vet on wednesday for xrays to check her wing and i have found somone local that has a wild crow but with only one wing that lives in his garden so once she is sorted she is moving into his place


i think you've made a good choice by sending her to someone with another resident crow, and livng outside


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

joe190 said:


> i think you've made a good choice by sending her to someone with another resident crow, and livng outside


well she got out from their house and has found her way back to my area, she has joined a group of 3 young crows and they are all having run causing problems


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