# First APH



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Got my first APH today. Stunning little chocolate girl. 

Very inquisitive and active. Already had the set up ready, so popped her straight in after the 2.5 hour journey home. She had a quick mooch around, before scuttling off into one of her houses. I was pottering around in the room and she quickly came back out to see what i was doing. 

Seems very friendly, and funny. Really good introduction to exotic mammals!

Will get pictures up tomorrow 

Thanks to all the people who have helped me


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

cool!!!!! who did you get her from?


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Swift Pet Supplies in Southport. 

The litter they have in are stunning, as is the skunk they have. 

Would deffinately reccomend them!


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

congratulations and hope she settles in well over the next few days - please please get to know your girl before even considering breeding - its not as easy as you think and it isnt an easy buck - I have had APH for 14months now and only now am I considering breeding my well lined boy - I do wish you well with your girl but please think and consider the animal always and 1st and foremost enjoy her for who and what she is


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

animal addict said:


> congratulations and hope she settles in well over the next few days - please please get to know your girl before even considering breeding - its not as easy as you think and it isnt an easy buck - I have had APH for 14months now and only now am I considering breeding my well lined boy - I do wish you well with your girl but please think and consider the animal always and 1st and foremost enjoy her for who and what she is


Listen mate, like i said on the last post you had a go at me on, i didnt say i was going to start breeding straight away did i! I said i MIGHT in a year or so once i get to know hedgehogs more!!!!


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

Can i just mention if you plan to breed in a yr you will not be able to use your new girlie as they have to be bred and have given birth before one yr old as their hips fuse.


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

yes hope you enjoy her. there is loads of advice and information around, and the the more you research the more interesting these animals are.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

I didnt have a go and you certainly didnt say nowt of the sort you said that you'd read up and knew everything - no-one will ever know everything


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## dexnos (Mar 10, 2008)

But you did give that impression and you were naive enough to say you knew all u needed to know about them :Na_Na_Na_Na: which is probably why you had the original post removed .

Good look with your new hedgie glad she is settling in.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Im actually going to stop posting here now, or updating people on my hedgehog as you all seem to think your superior to me, and i would rather not argue. Its getting like the tortoise section.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

i am SO glad your happy with her! if she is about 8-9 weeks old then she is one of my last litter.......please Pm me for the details to get her cert registered in your name. she has been registered but the registry doesnt issue certs to trade unti they are in their new homes.


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

erm...... i havent been arguing although I do love a good arguement!

I thought my post offered a useful tip about breeding actually, in the fact it needs to be done before a yr.


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

actually the registry sends out certificates to the breeder to give to the new owners but as you clearly sold to a shop you didnt have any new owners, also we dont agree with providing to pet shop but thats another matter


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

angeldog said:


> actually the registry sends out certificates to the breeder to give to the new owners but as you clearly sold to a shop you didnt have any new owners, also we dont agree with providing to pet shop but thats another matter


You need to stop being negative. Its none of your business if Fantapants wants to sell to a shop at all!

She chooses who to sell to, not you.


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

no but its angels business when incorrect info is given about the reg she runs!!!


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

no-one is superior - no-one even suggested that - you were the one who said that you knew it all- you said that in your own words - no-one will ever know it all in any walk of life and you did say in your classifieds post that you wanted a breeding pair of APH and all I said was to please get to know the species first seeing as its people like myself who have a few non breeders because of people making mistakes with them -I've been bitten to shreds trying to re-socialise hogs -esp at the moment on the run up to xmas and recent media attention then people do need to recognise the importance of howmuch commitment these animals need


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

The shop owner has the certs, and is posting them on to me! 

I think its a wonderful thing that you can register them though, shows the good lines and breeding etc.


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## dexnos (Mar 10, 2008)

No offence anyone with a bit of sence wouldn't sell to an APH to pet shop esp given the current media coverage on them and the amount of impulse buys going on as a result


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

i was just stating a fact and you should mind your own business and maybe try and grow up a bit, not everyone posts to get in arguments, some of us only have the animals welfare at heart. 
lots of animals dont belong in pet shops and hedgehogs are one of them, most of the time they dont know the first thing about them, they dont give correct info on care, they dont house them correctly, they house mixed sexes together, they sell the wrong set ups for the animal, they dont handle them.
just a few reasons


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

you may need to get the details changed on the cets to show you are the new owner.


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

animal addict said:


> no-one is superior - no-one even suggested that - you were the one who said that you knew it all- you said that in your own words - no-one will ever know it all in any walk of life and you did say in your classifieds post that you wanted a breeding pair of APH and all I said was to please get to know the species first seeing as its people like myself who have a few non breeders because of people making mistakes with them -I've been bitten to shreds trying to re-socialise hogs -esp at the moment on the run up to xmas and recent media attention then people do need to recognise the importance of howmuch commitment these animals need


Just because i wanted a breeding pair doesnt mean i will breed straight away though! Ofcourse i would get to know the hogs and get more experience with them!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> Got my first APH today. Stunning little chocolate girl.
> 
> Very inquisitive and active. Already had the set up ready, so popped her straight in after the 2.5 hour journey home. She had a quick mooch around, before scuttling off into one of her houses. I was pottering around in the room and she quickly came back out to see what i was doing.
> 
> ...


 
congrats on your new lil prickley bum 

hope you enjoy her looking forward to seeing pics of her :2thumb:


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

hedgies should definately not be sold to pet shops!!! They need regular nocturnal handling i.e when pet shops are not open unless they are bred from home - its very very irresponsible to sell to pet shops and I am most disappointed to hear that someone whom I have held in high self esteem has dipped their standards to such a level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

angeldog said:


> i was just stating a fact and you should mind your own business and maybe try and grow up a bit, not everyone posts to get in arguments, some of us only have the animals welfare at heart.
> lots of animals dont belong in pet shops and hedgehogs are one of them, most of the time they dont know the first thing about them, they dont give correct info on care, they dont house them correctly, they house mixed sexes together, they sell the wrong set ups for the animal, they dont handle them.
> just a few reasons


The shop i got her from kept them in perfect conditions. Had one of those indoor rabbit hutches, with the mesh tops and plastic hides. Had a big wheel to run in, and space and hides to do as they wish.

I understand that not all animals belong in a shop, however i would think that animals that dont belong in shops are monkeys and crocodiles etc. Aslong as they correct care is given out with the hogs from shops (which it was for me) then i see no problem with it at all. 

I understand what you are saying, and ofcourse not all shops offer correct care, but then again, that counts for any animal! Ive been sold guinea pigs and been told they can live with rabbits. ( a rabbits kick can and will kill a guinea pig) so its not only hedgehogs that what you are saying counts too.


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

did they have many hogs in?


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> congrats on your new lil prickley bum
> 
> hope you enjoy her looking forward to seeing pics of her :2thumb:


Thanks Emma, she is gorgeous  Really glad to have her home at last, done 2 months of reading and sorting an enclosure out for her!

She is very friendly, the shop i got her from handled regularly so she is used to it already


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

enola69 said:


> did they have many hogs in?


Just the one litter  They where all stunning


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

At the end of the day whats done has been done 

I think its nothing to do with anyone else where and who the breeder sold the hogs to tbh

why has someones happy thread yet turned into another argument 

the OP has already stated he will stop posting progress in here so all your doing is pushing someone away who may need help in the future............that wont dare ask for it due to the response he has had just saying "YAY i have my hedgie"


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## Simplylucy (May 22, 2009)

Good luck with your new Hedgehog, hope she settles in well.

When she has settled in can you post a picture. I really like them.

My daughter is very keen to get one but she is only 8, she'll have to wait a few more years yet.

Oh and whats she called? (I like to be nosey!)


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> Thanks Emma, she is gorgeous  Really glad to have her home at last, done 2 months of reading and sorting an enclosure out for her!
> 
> She is very friendly, the shop i got her from handled regularly so she is used to it already


Yes i know the people who you got her from and i know they take care of all their animals very well hun 

they are a pet shop that care : victory:


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

What sort of set up you got her in as there are many to choose from?


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Simplylucy said:


> Good luck with your new Hedgehog, hope she settles in well.
> 
> When she has settled in can you post a picture. I really like them.
> 
> ...


Hiya 

Thanks for that 

She is called Madame Cholet, from the wombles... She looks just like one haha

Ill post a pic tomorrow


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

also how many were in the litter????? I have family that live in Southport so I may visit them and see hoglets at the same time - can never resist a hoglet!!!! :lol2:


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

enola69 said:


> What sort of set up you got her in as there are many to choose from?


 
Can you stop quizzing me please, trying to find a fault with the way i keep her!

This really is hard work. Think i will join a proper hog forum, maybe they will be more helpful.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

thats not the case emmaj - its not the case of 'oh lets have a go for no reason' dont you realise the amount of inappropriate hedgies, sugar gliders etc ect that are being inappropriatly bred because they are the latest fad??? Its not an argument its aplea to people-please be sensible about what you are doing - saying that you want a breeding pair, saying that you wanna breed coz you have read up and you know everything!! you should know that no-one knows everything - its like saying 'I know the meaning of life' it wasnt meant to be an argument - it was a friendly please think of what you are doing if you do want to breed from someone who has owned these animals for over 14 months and have picked up the pieces from the other side-surely people can understand that???

I have no problem with Tomcat breeding if he has owned his hedgies for a good few months near a year etc and has a different few personalities etc etc for the experience


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

just curious as i keep them too! dont mean to come across as quizzing.

I currently own 10! I use zoozones, and vivs and vivs with mesh instead of glass.


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

yeah the hog forum is good!!!! im on there! same name


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Might just stick to asking my mates if i need any help actually.


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## angels1531 (Aug 27, 2008)

Tomcat said:


> Can you stop quizzing me please, trying to find a fault with the way i keep her!
> 
> This really is hard work. Think i will join a proper hog forum, maybe they will be more helpful.


 
As I said in my previous post... 

Pygmy Hogs UK

I found this site really easily when I was doing my research for mine. Good luck with your new hog and finding a new home for your lizards. Looking forward to pics.


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

yes the hog forum is the best place to be


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Thank you


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

animal addict said:


> thats not the case emmaj - its not the case of 'oh lets have a go for no reason' dont you realise the amount of inappropriate hedgies, sugar gliders etc ect that are being inappropriatly bred because they are the latest fad??? Its not an argument its aplea to people-please be sensible about what you are doing - saying that you want a breeding pair, saying that you wanna breed coz you have read up and you know everything!! you shoudl know that no-one knows everything - its like saying 'I know the meaning of life' it wasnt meant to be an argument - it was a friendly pleasethink of what you are doing if you do want to breed from someone who has owned these animals for over 14 months and have picked up the pieces from theo ther side-surely people can understand that???


 
Yeah i do understand and its not just hedgies and suggys there are plenty of other animals being treated the same way too 

but people ranting at someone about breeding ethics will only get their back up hence what happened 

it would have been easier to have a polite convo via pm than ruin his thread with an argument


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

Tomcat said:


> Listen mate, like i said on the last post you had a go at me on, i didnt say i was going to start breeding straight away did i! I said i MIGHT in a year or so once i get to know hedgehogs more!!!!



YOU LISTEN !!!! she was not having go at you she was giving you advice people like you think they know it all about APH's maybe you come across a bit better before people would of not started and dont think you are in for the money (Which There is Not) What is the point trying to help thats why i dont bother !!!!


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> Yeah i do understand and its not just hedgies and suggys there are plenty of other animals being treated the same way too
> 
> but people ranting at someone about breeding ethics will only get their back up hence what happened
> 
> it would have been easier to have a polite convo via pm than ruin his thread with an argument


I didnt rant -I said to him please think -that wasnt an argument


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## little-miss (Nov 17, 2009)

I've had my hog for 3 weeks now and the forum has been invaluable. Even after reading masses of stuff i still have questions! Even simple things like when my hog should have his wheel?

I would be lost without it!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

animal addict said:


> I didnt rant -I said to him please think -that wasnt an argument


i didnt say you did but a few people have

isnt it better to guide and give advice than push away? Which is probably how the OP feels right now


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

^^^ yes hence my plea -just please think thats all I'm saying :-( just get to know the hedgie first off etc


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## angels1531 (Aug 27, 2008)

In all fairness Emmaj, if you take a little looksie at the OP's previous threads, he has made it perfectly clear he intends to breed. We are not trying to ruin his thread, or take away from the excitement of a lovely new pet, but to make sure he knows what he is getting into. I assume you would feel exactly the same way if I asked you to sell me skunks, a breeding pair please. I know all about them and cant wait for my first babies to sell on eh!
Tomcat, as I have already said.. enjoy your new bundle.. I am looking forward to seeing your pictures once she has settled.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

animal addict said:


> ^^^ yes hence my plea -just please think thats all I'm saying :-( just get to know the hedgie first off etc


 


the thing with typing anything out........you cant truely read what the person in meaning and this is where things go wrong 

what reads ok to you may read completely different to someone else 

its so hard to judge how to take something when its written 

i dont think you meant anything bad and your intentions were good as i think the same with most that have posted on here 

but to an outsider it can look slightly in your face and pushy 

i hope that made sense :gasp::lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

angels1531 said:


> In all fairness Emmaj, if you take a little looksie at the OP's previous threads, he has made it perfectly clear he intends to breed. We are not trying to ruin his thread, or take away from the excitement of a lovely new pet, but to make sure he knows what he is getting into. I assume you would feel exactly the same way if I asked you to sell me skunks, a breeding pair please. I know all about them and cant wait for my first babies to sell on eh!
> Tomcat, as I have already said.. enjoy your new bundle.. I am looking forward to seeing your pictures once she has settled.


I know im not doubting you or anyone and tomcat wouldnt doubt he wants to breed eventually 

i said pretty much what i ment on the post i replyed to animaladdict :lol2:


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

yes things do look out of context in type :-(


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

animal addict said:


> yes things do look out of context in type :-(


I wasnt having a go at anyone just trying to point out well basically what i did 

Tomcat is just excited about getting his hog and he was bombarded with advice that did come across as a little abrupt


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

angeldog said:


> actually the registry sends out certificates to the breeder to give to the new owners but as you clearly sold to a shop you didnt have any new owners, also we dont agree with providing to pet shop but thats another matter


The registry sent out prefixes to give to the owners AFTER they had been sold to the pet shop (E-mail proof if needed).



enola69 said:


> no but its angels business when incorrect info is given about the reg she runs!!!


No incorrect information was given, only what I was told by the registry (Once again E-mail proof if neded)



animal addict said:


> no-one is superior - no-one even suggested that - you were the one who said that you knew it all- you said that in your own words - no-one will ever know it all in any walk of life and you did say in your classifieds post that you wanted a breeding pair of APH and all I said was to please get to know the species first seeing as its people like myself who have a few non breeders because of people making mistakes with them -I've been bitten to shreds trying to re-socialise hogs -esp at the moment on the run up to xmas and recent media attention then people do need to recognise the importance of howmuch commitment these animals need


As I said in the classified quote, Tomcat did not mean to come across as arrogant, just that he knew the basics. I have been to his house, having sold exotic animals to him in the past. He has been in touch with me constantly in the last few years and we have been discussing hedgehog care recently and I have no doubt in his ability to care for any animal he has.



angeldog said:


> i was just stating a fact and you should mind your own business and maybe try and grow up a bit, not everyone posts to get in arguments, some of us only have the animals welfare at heart.
> lots of animals dont belong in pet shops and hedgehogs are one of them, most of the time they dont know the first thing about them, they dont give correct info on care, they dont house them correctly, they house mixed sexes together, they sell the wrong set ups for the animal, they dont handle them.
> just a few reasons


I happen to know that cheron took the baby hogs home with her to further socialise them. I have no doubt, due to our many recent e-mails,that she is completely and utterly capable of caring for and making sure they go to competent homes.

Animal addict, I saw you original post and am disgusted that your opinion of me could alter so rapidly. You know the care and dedication that I goto for my animals and that I would not let anything go to anything less than a truly reputable supplier.

What most people don't know is that I have consistently supplied my animals for a lot less than the market price, on the proviso that they goto caring, reputable homes, normally to peoples from RFUK. A few months ago people could not get rid of baby hogs for £80 each. Then a news article said they were the next biggest thing and breeders off this forum doubled their prices. For me it is not the profit but the joy, so I only sell to people that I can trust and cheron is one of them.


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## spikeacus (Dec 19, 2008)

Coming from a person that says _"he knows all there is to know"_ about APH's perhaps he should put all his time and energy into writing a book about his knowledge since he knows so much :whistling2: I think that's what has got peoples back up here, as I have been obsessed with hedgehogs [not aph's I am still new to them] for over 30 years and still I learn more and more each day, I certainly wouldnt confess to knowing all there is to know!


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

spikeacus said:


> Coming from a person that says _"he knows all there is to know"_ about APH's perhaps he should put all his time and energy into writing a book about his knowledge since he knows so much :whistling2: I think that's what has got peoples back up here, as I have been obsessed with hedgehogs [not aph's I am still new to them] for over 30 years and still I learn more and more each day, I certainly wouldnt confess to knowing all there is to know!


 
I didnt say i knew all there was to know.

I said i know what i NEED to know, meaning the basics.

So glad Ali knows me :notworthy:


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## spikeacus (Dec 19, 2008)

> _A few months ago people could not get rid of baby hogs for £80 each. _


Blimey it was only a few months ago I had trouble finding any baby hogs from reputable sources and they were certainly selling for more than £80.....


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

spikeacus said:


> Coming from a person that says _"he knows all there is to know"_ about APH's perhaps he should put all his time and energy into writing a book about his knowledge since he knows so much :whistling2: I think that's what has got peoples back up here, as I have been obsessed with hedgehogs [not aph's I am still new to them] for over 30 years and still I learn more and more each day, I certainly wouldnt confess to knowing all there is to know!


 
as i have already said.......tomcat didnt mean to offend anybody. he simply meant that he had done his basic research and knew all of that.

when will you people get over your selves? he made a mistake with his wording!


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## spikeacus (Dec 19, 2008)

Tomcat said:


> I didnt say i knew all there was to know.
> 
> I said i know what i NEED to know, meaning the basics.
> 
> So glad Ali knows me :notworthy:


Glad you at least know the basics then and will make sure that you dont breed her too soon or too late then, and that all the lineages will be checked throughly and are registered from reputable breeders. 

Personally for me, before I brought mine, knowing the 'basics' wasnt enough....


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

spikeacus said:


> Blimey it was only a few months ago I had trouble finding any baby hogs from reputable sources and they were certainly selling for more than £80.....


do a search sweety, i can think of three breeders that were advertising their babies for "£80 or offers" befoe the news article.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

spikeacus said:


> Coming from a person that says _"he knows all there is to know"_ about APH's perhaps he should put all his time and energy into writing a book about his knowledge since he knows so much :whistling2: I think that's what has got peoples back up here, as I have been obsessed with hedgehogs [not aph's I am still new to them] for over 30 years and still I learn more and more each day, I certainly wouldnt confess to knowing all there is to know!


The original poster was excited about his new hog just as every other person who owns hogs was when they got their first 

i dont think tom is that old so give him a break hey 

people say they want to do and try things its no crime.........he will ask people when the time comes and as time goes by advice should he need to 


i know everyone is wanting the best for the hedgie but if you keep pushing you will push him away and then never know how he or the hedgie is getting on


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

I thought the reason behind forums like this was for peoples to help each other, not for holier than thou preaching.
Also angeldog what animal is it ok to sell in petshops?


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

spikeacus said:


> Glad you at least know the basics then and will make sure that you dont breed her too soon or too late then, and that all the lineages will be checked throughly and are registered from reputable breeders.
> 
> Personally for me, before I brought mine, knowing the 'basics' wasnt enough....


Ive researched for the past 2 months, on care, housing, feeding & breeding.

I beleive i know enough to trust myself to take good care to make my little hog thrive!


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## spikeacus (Dec 19, 2008)

fantapants said:


> as i have already said.......tomcat didnt mean to offend anybody. he simply meant that he had done his basic research and knew all of that.
> 
> when will you people get over your selves? he made a mistake with his wording!


Not about 'getting over ourselves' its about getting across that these are not very easy pets to care for and certainly not to breed from and all the people who's backs are up I think you will find own APH's and have alot of experience....


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## angels1531 (Aug 27, 2008)

spikeacus said:


> Blimey it was only a few months ago I had trouble finding any baby hogs from reputable sources and they were certainly selling for more than £80.....


 
I got Thistle in May... she was a lot more than £80 and I had to go on a waiting list then... but she was worth the wait.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

fantapants said:


> Animal addict, I saw you original post and am disgusted that your opinion of me could alter so rapidly. You know the care and dedication that I goto for my animals and that I would not let anything go to anything less than a truly reputable supplier.
> 
> What most people don't know is that I have consistently supplied my animals for a lot less than the market price, on the proviso that they goto caring, reputable homes, normally to peoples from RFUK. A few months ago people could not get rid of baby hogs for £80 each. Then a news article said they were the next biggest thing and breeders off this forum doubled their prices. For me it is not the profit but the joy, so I only sell to people that I can trust and cheron is one of them.


My original post had nothing to do with you - I will say though that although you have not had the best reputation with hedgies I have always defended you on numerous occassions on the basis of the way you have helped me with my tortoise - I am dismayed that you have sold to a pet shop knowing that these animals are nocturnal and that pet shops are not open by night - market price or not is no matter its the home they go to and I feel really let down- reptiles do not bond with owners like mammals do - I equally dispear of owners selling pintos and the like for excess amounts because of colour - its just ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I bought my male hog from Chez and Steve over a year ago and they delivered him for me, spent ages chatting, giving advice and showed great concern for his welfare. He also came with a care book and registration papers.


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## spikeacus (Dec 19, 2008)

Tomcat said:


> Ive researched for the past 2 months, on care, housing, feeding & breeding.
> 
> I beleive i know enough to trust myself to take good care to make my little hog thrive!


I hope so ........ and hope we dont see her in the classifieds in the future for sale to buy another different pet!


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## angels1531 (Aug 27, 2008)

ste_lloyd said:


> I thought the reason behind forums like this was for peoples to help each other, not for holier than thou preaching.
> Also angeldog what animal is it ok to sell in petshops?


 
Its a bit like any animal though isnt it... you see people wanting one (an APH or a tortoise), then a few months later when the novelty has worn off, they're up for sale... just like you would sell a car or a second hand book. That and the fact that people sometimes are just on the look out for a quick moneyspinner. Ive even seen wanted ads on here saying they are willing to take on animals with deformities... as long as they can be bred from :gasp::whip:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

animal addict said:


> My original post had nothing to do with you - I will say though that although you have not had the best reputation with hedgies I have always defended you on numerous occassions on the basis of the way you have helped me with my tortoise - I am dismayed that you have sold to a pet shop knowing that these animals are nocturnal and that pet shops are not open by night - market price or not is no matter its the home they go to and I feel really let down- reptiles do not bond with owners like mammals do - I equally dispear of owners selling pintos and the like for excess amounts because of colour - its just ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!


yes, hedgies ARE nocturnal.....people are not. so how on earth can you justify keeping them yourself? unless you stay awake from 10-6am to keep them occupied? and i "may not have had the best reputation"? i would like to here that explanation. I am fully aware of how may hogs i have sold and i am also ware of their current status.......so please enligten me via PM. all of my hedges are fully socialised, 100% healthy and happy. they are provided with good food, good housing and vet care as and when its needed regardless of cost. i would LOVE to know how that makes me a bad keeper.

if you still respect me as a tortoise keeper then i fail to see how your opinion on my APHs can have altered. i have NEVER deinied that i would supply to the BEST....most REPUTABLE petshops. 



Shell195 said:


> I bought my male hog from Chez and Steve over a year ago and they delivered him for me, spent ages chatting, giving advice and showed great concern for his welfare. He also came with a care book and registration papers.


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

ste_lloyd said:


> I thought the reason behind forums like this was for peoples to help each other, not for holier than thou preaching.
> Also angeldog what animal is it ok to sell in petshops?


actually i dont think any animal should be in a pet shop

im one of the longest running breeders of aph in the uk and my hogs have always been £150 regardless of sex or colour, ive had people waiting on my list for up to 18 months. obviously the people selling for less are not well known in the hog world and alot of people will only buy from recommended breeders


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

angeldog said:


> actually i dont think any animal should be in a pet shop
> 
> im one of the longest running breeders of aph in the uk and my hogs have always been £150 regardless of sex or colour, ive had people waiting on my list for up to 18 months. obviously the people selling for less are not well known in the hog world and alot of people will only buy from recommended breeders


thats your choice. i have only sold to people that i have become friends with. over half of my hedgie babies have gone to friends......once they have become aware of thir care etc. i would never dream of charging a friend £150 for a animal that i keep for PLEASURE! i absorb the costs of my hobby and sell my animals at a loss as i enjoy the keeping, learning and JOY of having them in my house. i am sorry if that offends anybody on this forum.

i am sorry that i dont NEED to command a price of £150 per hog to maintain my hobby. god damn me for having too much money......


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

fantapants said:


> yes, hedgies ARE nocturnal.....people are not. so how on earth can you justify keeping them yourself? unless you stay awake from 10-6am to keep them occupied? and i "may not have had the best reputation"? i would like to here that explanation. I am fully aware of how may hogs i have sold and i am also ware of their current status.......so please enligten me via PM. all of my hedges are fully socialised, 100% healthy and happy. they are provided with good food, good housing and vet care as and when its needed regardless of cost. i would LOVE to know how that makes me a bad keeper.
> 
> if you still respect me as a tortoise keeper then i fail to see how your opinion on my APHs can have altered. i have NEVER deinied that i would supply to the BEST....most REPUTABLE petshops.


I do actually spend most of my nights awake actually!!! Your rep speaks for itself that you are happy to sell to pet shops -no matter HOW reputable -they are NOT open by night - they may be fully socialised by you but a week/fortnight in a pet shop and unhandled undoes a lot of hard work!!!


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

ste_lloyd said:


> I thought the reason behind forums like this was for peoples to help each other, not for holier than thou preaching.
> Also angeldog what animal is it ok to sell in petshops?


I dont think the issue is about pet shops selling them. Its more the way they are sold with more than often bad advice, or non at all. I have come across hogs for sale on many occassions where they are being kept innapropriatley and sold for ridiculouy prices. Pet shops tend to tell the customer what they want to hear, and often lie. ( i have experienced this). There main purpose is to make MONEY. Claiming they are a rare colour or something just to charge people more. So this is obviously not about preaching just common sense.:2thumb:


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

i never mentioned anything about how much you sellyours for, what you sell for is up to you, noone is disputing that.
pet shop is still selling for the going rate though....

i have seen other people on here who are obviously only breeding for the money, and or some reason seem to think things like pintos warrent a price tag of £200+, ridiculous when there are hundreds of them around.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

If ANYONE thinks its ok to allow hedgies to become unsocialised for even a week or so at a young age -I personally would like to invite you to my house and meet the product of such a stupid belief - come and see the damage you cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please do-I wont take no credit for what you will meet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

animal addict said:


> I do actually spend most of my nights awake actually!!! Your rep speaks for itself that you are happy to sell to pet shops -no matter HOW reputable -they are NOT open by night - they may be fully socialised by you but a week/fortnight in a pet shop and unhandled undoes a lot of hard work!!!


i am sure that Tom cats hedgie will turn into a tasmanian devil overnight. just out of curiosity......has anybody even asked Cheron what she does with the hedgies? do you KNOW that she leaves them in the shop overnight? do you KNOW that she doesnt handle them at home after 10pm when they are awake? or.....are you going on what you THINK she does?:whistling2:


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

fantapants said:


> yes, hedgies ARE nocturnal.....people are not. so how on earth can you justify keeping them yourself? unless you stay awake from 10-6am to keep them occupied?


Actaully anyone experienced would know that although they are naturally nocturnal. It is appropriate and to the benefit of of the hog to socialise them even during the early eveing and day time. This does them no harm and is essential. Remember these are domestic animals and are not in danger of been eaten by preditors, or need to hide away all the time. Unless you cant be bothered with them of course.


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

to TAO, I just asked what animals should be sold in petshops. Many petshops are just there for profit, not all, that is too sweeping a statement. People must have set up shops to sell their wares for more than monitary gain.


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

animal addict said:


> If ANYONE thinks its ok to allow hedgies to become unsocialised for even a week or so at a young age -I personally would like to invite you to my house and meet the product of such a stupid belief - come and see the damage you cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please do-I wont take no credit for what you will meet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So you admit either you have bought hedgehogs from a dubious source or you are a bad keeper.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

nope I rescued thanks!!! C'mon meet my 1 yr old unhandled boy (for one) -please do


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## little-miss (Nov 17, 2009)

ste_lloyd said:


> So you admit either you have bought hedgehogs from a dubious source or you are a bad keeper.


:gasp:


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

ste_lloyd said:


> to TAO, I just asked ......


 no you didnt. you also accused people who were trying to give advice, of preaching. Im not saying all petshops are bad, just dont always look into what they are selling and buying.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

angeldog said:


> i never mentioned anything about how much you sellyours for, what you sell for is up to you, noone is disputing that.
> pet shop is still selling for the going rate though....
> 
> i have seen other people on here who are obviously only breeding for the money, and or some reason seem to think things like pintos warrent a price tag of £200+, ridiculous when there are hundreds of them around.


 
i agree the price tag is insane. i have never sold an APH for more due to its colour.



animal addict said:


> If ANYONE thinks its ok to allow hedgies to become unsocialised for even a week or so at a young age -I personally would like to invite you to my house and meet the product of such a stupid belief - come and see the damage you cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please do-I wont take no credit for what you will meet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i KNOW what can happen. i am fully aware of it. so is Cheron.......your point is? i could have sold my hedgies for twice the price JUST cos they were on classifieds. yet i didnt. Go figure!? maybe i know something you dont.......



animal addict said:


> I do actually spend most of my nights awake actually!!! Your rep speaks for itself that you are happy to sell to pet shops -no matter HOW reputable -they are NOT open by night - they may be fully socialised by you but a week/fortnight in a pet shop and unhandled undoes a lot of hard work!!!


so you ONLY sell your hedgies at night....between 10 ad 6? you wouldnt let a person collect them in the daytime?.........if a viewer came over in the daytime and the hedgie didnt "perform".....would you poke it? would you tease it? cos i promise you......Cheron would NEVER stand for that, as i wouldnt.


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

animal addict said:


> nope I rescued thanks!!! C'mon meet my 1 yr old unhandled boy -please do


I have rehomed animals but don't assume that I KNOW it all and therefore have the right to foist my beliefs of questionable ethics upon everyone.


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

fantapants said:


> so you ONLY sell your hedgies at night....between 10 ad 6? you wouldnt let a person collect them in the daytime?.........if a viewer came over in the daytime and the hedgie didnt "perform".....would you poke it? would you tease it? cos i promise you......Cheron would NEVER stand for that, as i wouldnt.


Idiot! :lol2:


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

ste_lloyd said:


> I have rehomed animals but don't assume that I KNOW it all and therefore have the right to foist my beliefs of questionable ethics upon everyone.


did I say I knew it all???? I don't think so!!! like I said previously -knowing it all is paramount to saying 'I know the meaning of life!!!' ethics are by far questionable in this instance!!!


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

animal addict said:


> did I say I knew it all???? I don't think so!!! like I said previously -knowing it all is paramount to saying 'I know the meaning of life!!!' ethics are by far questionable in this instance!!!


Just an assumption I gleaned from your responses on this thread.


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

:lol2: i gleaned my teeth this morning. : victory: or I have been gleaning the hogs out today etc .


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Tao said:


> Idiot! :lol2:


 
yes......yes you are. nocturnal animals can be sold at any time of the day or night. The "upset" is the same regardless.......or can you QUANTIFY wellbeing in a mammal that cant speak? but for gods sake, dont go and anthropomorphise......(and dont go google it either!).:gasp:

i breed mammals AND reptiles. i treat all of them with the utmost respect. i have regular fecals done on ALL of my animals. i have regular vet checks just for the hell of it. just because i can. and they are ALL handled regularly and treated with the utmost respect. so yes, maybe i AM an idiot. unlike you i assume:whistling2: (you have very little posts to go off.......but i am pretty good with picking them out).


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

fantapants said:


> just out of curiosity......has anybody even asked Cheron what she does with the hedgies? do you KNOW that she leaves them in the shop overnight? do you KNOW that she doesnt handle them at home after 10pm when they are awake?



im sure she takes them home every night with a great zoozone in the car, oh no wait 2 zoozones cos of the male - crap how stupid of me!!!


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

fantapants said:


> so you ONLY sell your hedgies at night....between 10 ad 6? you wouldnt let a person collect them in the daytime?.........if a viewer came over in the daytime and the hedgie didnt "perform".....would you poke it? would you tease it? cos i promise you......Cheron would NEVER stand for that, as i wouldnt.



You that bloody stupid to think that only sell them at night oh my god get a grip 

Animal Addict dont even breed or sell hogs she bought and rescue them she as taken on disabled ones to have a proper life 

As you sell to a pet shop well !!! Do you sell the whole litter ??? to them and how do you feel if they brother and sister breed while in that shop which always happens at a young age this why people go off on one about Pet shops as they dont car what happens to them in there as long they get plenty of ££££££££££££££££££ for them


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## angels1531 (Aug 27, 2008)

Animal Addict has probably forgotten more abotu APH's than I will ever know! ALWAYS been supportive and knowledgable, willing to help and share. 
This thread is now getting personal. As I have previously said, it was really the way the OP went about it that put peoples backs up... and IMO rightly so. There are far too many people wheeling and dealing animals around like sweets in a shop. They come on... get what they want, and when it all gets boring or too much like hard work, they are back up for sale. Its such a shame that there are so many people thinking they can just dispose of their critters when they realise that theres a lot more to looking after an animal than just turning up and feeding it.


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

fantapants said:


> yes......yes you are. nocturnal animals can be sold at any time of the day or night. The "upset" is the same regardless.......or can you QUANTIFY wellbeing in a mammal that cant speak? but for gods sake, dont go and anthropomorphise......(and dont go google it either!).:gasp:
> 
> i breed mammals AND reptiles. i treat all of them with the utmost respect. i have regular fecals done on ALL of my animals. i have regular vet checks just for the hell of it. just because i can. and they are ALL handled regularly and treated with the utmost respect. so yes, maybe i AM an idiot. unlike you i assume:whistling2: (you have very little posts to go off.......but i am pretty good with picking them out).


congratulations on that. QUANTIFY, anthropomorphise, fecals , ?? so as well as breeding with animals are you an archaeologist too.*http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...VMcwFmy3T3JFPYvtQ&sig2=dQ4ZstF6zGOF2u6RYLToew*


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Reptileaddict said:


> You that bloody stupid to think that only sell them at night oh my god get a grip
> 
> Animal Addict dont even breed or sell hogs she bought and rescue them she as taken on disabled ones to have a proper life
> 
> As you sell to a pet shop well !!! Do you sell the whole litter ??? to them and how do you feel if they brother and sister breed while in that shop which always happens at a young age this why people go off on one about Pet shops as they dont car what happens to them in there as long they get plenty of ££££££££££££££££££ for them


i pity you. you , again, havent asked the petshop owner on her seperation procedures. and i didnt get plenty of ££££££££ i sold them for my normal "friend" rate. try reading the thread before you judge. 

so.....you say hedgies cant be sold JUST at night........so why is the pethsop selling them wrong? if i KNOW that the petshop sells them to people that have passed a vetting test......so why is it wrong? i could have made ALOT more selling them at classified price.......i didnt need to sell them so cheap. but i KNOW that Cheron will take the same care in finding them homes as i could.


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## shplooble (Jan 5, 2008)

Reptileaddict said:


> You that bloody stupid to think that only sell them at night oh my god get a grip
> 
> Animal Addict dont even breed or sell hogs she bought and rescue them she as taken on disabled ones to have a proper life
> 
> As you sell to a pet shop well !!! Do you sell the whole litter ??? to them and how do you feel if they brother and sister breed while in that shop which always happens at a young age this why people go off on one about Pet shops as they dont car what happens to them in there as long they get plenty of ££££££££££££££££££ for them


 

ok i am making one post as this has REALLY upset me! I work in a petshop, my oh owns said pet shop, my hedgehog has just has babies I may sell them in the pet shop!

They will still me socialised BY ME aswell as the 2 owners, they will still be cared for and still be sold at reasonable prices! WE all care about the well being of EVERY animal we sell mammel reptile ANYTHING! to be soooo narrow minded as to say what every pet shop thinks and works on is beyond a joke! do not steriotype all pet shops with a bad few there may be out there please!!! 

We close at 5:30 how many days a week do you think we leave at that time?? not many as the animals need care and what stops us getting out the hedgehogs at 4:30 in the afternoon so they are still socialised and as theyre young aclimatised to waking up at this time? NOTHING! 

thank you :2thumb:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Tao said:


> congratulations on that. QUANTIFY, anthropomorphise, fecals , ?? so as well as breeding with animals are you an archaeologist too.


 
BAHAHAHA! the word "quantify" is a linguistic term that simply means to "determine the exact amount" ( i did english at uni). the word "anthroporomphise" means to give any object/animal OTHER than a human, *human* feelings. fecal means poo......so basicaly, judged on your reply......you know f*all.....about f*all......so F* off.

in a nice friendly way of course!:2thumb:


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

I dont think every pet shop is stereotypical thought most are - socialising hogs is very minimal in pet shop terms though in general throughout the uk - there are some but very few


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

hmm nice, at least you learnt the important words then:lol2:

lets all boast about what we've done and do :lol2: ive got an iq of 150 and yeah i knew the meanings of all those words but thanks for pointing it out:lol2:


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

Shame you allowed yourself to become upset. however obviously your shop is different. There are many bad shops too, and no one said all were no good. this is only from experience.

Also fantapants no one has said that hogs can only be sold at night. Just makes you look stupid for suggesting it.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

shplooble said:


> ok i am making one post as this has REALLY upset me! I work in a petshop, my oh owns said pet shop, my hedgehog has just has babies I may sell them in the pet shop!
> 
> They will still me socialised BY ME aswell as the 2 owners, they will still be cared for and still be sold at reasonable prices! WE all care about the well being of EVERY animal we sell mammel reptile ANYTHING! to be soooo narrow minded as to say what every pet shop thinks and works on is beyond a joke! do not steriotype all pet shops with a bad few there may be out there please!!!
> 
> ...


 
nice to see that other breeers will sell to shops IF they are the right sort f shop. 

plenty of shops breed their own or buy in APHs. if you lot want to start a slanging match......EDITED......i could give a looooong list of people in the uk that supply to shops. but i dont care what small minded petty people think.


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

:lol2: whats wrong fanta pants getting angry. Did you also learn the f word at uni too. :lol2: . nice one your so gifted. :2thumb:.


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

animal addict said:


> hedgies should definately not be sold to pet shops!!! They need regular nocturnal handling i.e when pet shops are not open unless they are bred from home - its very very irresponsible to sell to pet shops and I am most disappointed to hear that someone whom I have held in high self esteem has dipped their standards to such a level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
What animals get the correct handling in pet shops??? The hamsters arnt handled for 2 hours a day, rats dont get interaction?? rabbits dont........... why are hedgehogs any different..... Im just curious of your strong opinion????


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

sophs87 said:


> What animals get the correct handling in pet shops??? The hamsters arnt handled for 2 hours a day, rats dont get interaction?? rabbits dont........... why are hedgehogs any different..... Im just curious of your strong opinion????


My opinions dont differ - you put the argument over enough yourself


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

i did say that i though no animals should be sold in pet shops


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

fantapants said:


> i pity you. you , again, havent asked the petshop owner on her seperation procedures. and i didnt get plenty of ££££££££ i sold them for my normal "friend" rate. try reading the thread before you judge.
> 
> so.....you say hedgies cant be sold JUST at night........so why is the pethsop selling them wrong? if i KNOW that the petshop sells them to people that have passed a vetting test......so why is it wrong? i could have made ALOT more selling them at classified price.......i didnt need to sell them so cheap. but i KNOW that Cheron will take the same care in finding them homes as i could.



are you and cheron joined at the hip or someething ??/

Did i say you make a lot £££££ NO !!!!!!!!!! i said the shop does and prob 90% of the shops dont give a damm about seperation procedures and the same rate dont have clue on care and living needs i know a few people who have gone into a pet shop to get them out cause the owners just dont have clue about them they just see £££££££££££ signs 

Did i say only buy them at night ?? well i have never bought one at night are we meant to ??? well in the early evening i have i cant really get to grips what you mean by buying at night only do you think they should only be bought at night ?? is that what you are saying and not to be bought in the day


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

just some examples... one shop i ireland, the owner imported loads of hogs from germany. too many to look after and also kept with same sex, . stock infected with ringworm and also babies pregnant. 

We bought a hog from a pet shop because it was been kept in innappriate surroundings and also being fed a stupid diet that is not suitable. Pet shop owners had no idea about its care and the hogs skin was hanging off. 

I could go on.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

animal addict said:


> I dont think every pet shop is stereotypical thought most are - socialising hogs is very minimal in pet shop terms though in general throughout the uk - there are some but very few


 
i can promise you, to Cheron, her animals are VERY important.......as they are too me. but if you dont know her, i can understand why you may doubt that. 




angeldog said:


> hmm nice, at least you learnt the important words then:lol2:
> 
> lets all boast about what we've done and do :lol2: ive got an iq of 150 and yeah i knew the meanings of all those words but thanks for pointing it out:lol2:


IQs have been proven to be an incorrect measuremnet of inteligence. i KNOW my own state of mnd and what my friends are capable of. Cheron is more than capable of looking after the hogs and seeing them onto new homes.



Tao said:


> Shame you allowed yourself to become upset. however obviously your shop is different. There are many bad shops too, and no one said all were no good. this is only from experience.
> 
> Also fantapants no one has said that hogs can only be sold at night. Just makes you look stupid for suggesting it.


i wasnt REALLY upset. it was _sarcastic_.

and i wasnt the one that suggested they should only be sold at night. somebody else suggested that....... as they are nocturnal.
check post number 72 by animal addict she states......she is awake most of the night. and petshops are NOT open by night....so does she ONLY sell at night? even if she doesnt sell at night.....to suggest that these wonderful nimals are only active at night is a LIE. i have huge exotic room where mine are kept....i see them all through the day when i am sorting out the other many, many animals i keep as a HOBBY.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

fantapants said:


> and i wasnt the one that suggested they should only be sold at night. somebody else suggested that....... as they are nocturnal.
> check post number 72 by animal addict she states......she is awake most of the night. and petshops are NOT open by night....so does she ONLY sell at night? even if she doesnt sell at night.....to suggest that these wonderful nimals are only active at night is a LIE. i have huge exotic room where mine are kept....i see them all through the day when i am sorting out the other many, many animals i keep as a HOBBY.


did I suggest they should be sold at night? I think not ... erm shall we get a grip .. I dont sell at all as it goes lol!!!! so .... wtf?????!!!


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

yes you were upset :lol2: . Or it wouldnt bother you that i said you was. And animal addict does not state in that post or any other that they can only be sold at night. So you trying to make that out proves that you have an incorrect measurment of intelligence.


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

fantapants said:


> i can promise you, to Cheron, her animals are VERY important.......as they are too me. but if you dont know her, i can understand why you may doubt that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are really getting on my tits now !!!! ANIMAL ADDICT DOES NOT SELL !!!!!!! She is awake most of the night playing and handling all her hogs as she is at work in the day Oh is that bad working in the day and earning a living oh Animal addict you should be at home in the day with the hogs oh and yes she as got a BIG !! exotic room as well 

I will say every post i have read of yours you always mention Cheron and who the hell is that ????

Fair play this a great forum i never belived what people say about this site god i belive them now


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

angels1531 said:


> Animal Addict has probably forgotten more abotu APH's than I will ever know! ALWAYS been supportive and knowledgable, willing to help and share.
> This thread is now getting personal. As I have previously said, it was really the way the OP went about it that put peoples backs up... and IMO rightly so. There are far too many people wheeling and dealing animals around like sweets in a shop. They come on... get what they want, and when it all gets boring or too much like hard work, they are back up for sale. Its such a shame that there are so many people thinking they can just dispose of their critters when they realise that theres a lot more to looking after an animal than just turning up and feeding it.


I respect other peoples points of view

Did i say only buy them at night ?? well i have never bought one at night are we meant to ??? well in the early evening i have i cant really get to grips what you mean by buying at night only do you think they should only be bought at night ?? is that what you are saying and not to be bought in the day[/QUOTE]

Your point was that animals are nocturnal, so to part with them in the day is not right.



Tao said:


> just some examples... one shop i ireland, the owner imported loads of hogs from germany. too many to look after and also kept with same sex, . stock infected with ringworm and also babies pregnant.
> 
> We bought a hog from a pet shop because it was been kept in innappriate surroundings and also being fed a stupid diet that is not suitable. Pet shop owners had no idea about its care and the hogs skin was hanging off.
> 
> I could go on.


Is this the same pet shop that the hogs fantapants sold to is the same or are you assuming that the owners are the same? or are you assuming that everyone who owns a pet shop is like the one you visited?
Mammals imported need to be quarantined. That means it is more likely the quarantine centers fault. 



fantapants said:


> i can promise you, to Cheron, her animals are VERY important.......as they are too me. but if you dont know her, i can understand why you may doubt that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, being the only one who seems to have been into this particular shop, the owners seem to be capable of being genuine animal lovers?


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

:lol2: thanks reptile addict - nice to see some support from someone who has seen my set ups and ways of doing things lol


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

this is so getting silly though :-(


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

Reptileaddict said:


> You are really getting on my tits now !!!! ANIMAL ADDICT DOES NOT SELL !!!!!!! She is awake most of the night playing and handling all her hogs as she is at work in the day Oh is that bad working in the day and earning a living oh Animal addict you should be at home in the day with the hogs oh and yes she as got a BIG !! exotic room as well
> 
> I will say every post i have read of yours you always mention Cheron and who the hell is that ????
> 
> Fair play this a great forum i never belived what people say about this site god i belive them now


Oooh bitchy. Go bobo's little one and rest your tired eyes.
Has Animal addict ever sold animals?


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

errmmm not that I know what its got to do with you but I have sold about 2 collared lizards - some to a friend and one that I advertised on here that already owned collareds otherwise no coz I kept the others - dont see whats that got to do with anything though?? or how its relevant??


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

i think its crack houses your into not pet shops ste loyd.:lol2:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

animal addict said:


> did I suggest they should be sold at night? I think not ... erm shall we get a grip .. I dont sell at all as it goes lol!!!! so .... wtf?????!!!


 
if you dont breed from your disbabled rehomers then good for you.



Tao said:


> yes you were upset :lol2: . Or it wouldnt bother you that i said you was. And animal addict does not state in that post or any other that they can only be sold at night. So you trying to make that out proves that you have an incorrect measurment of intelligence.


erm. sorry to upset you.....i really WASNT uspet by you...sarcasm.....and it's spelt " measurement".



Reptileaddict said:


> You are really getting on my tits now !!!! ANIMAL ADDICT DOES NOT SELL !!!!!!! She is awake most of the night playing and handling all her hogs as she is at work in the day Oh is that bad working in the day and earning a living oh Animal addict you should be at home in the day with the hogs oh and yes she as got a BIG !! exotic room as well
> 
> I will say every post i have read of yours you always mention Cheron and who the hell is that ????
> 
> Fair play this a great forum i never belived what people say about this site god i belive them now


 
the only reason i mentioned Cheron in this thread is cos THATS THE SHOP OWNER! and no, were not joined at the hip. far from it. but i wont have a decent shop called fit to burn just cos they choose to buy APHs from a reputable source. I dont breed my stock willy nilly......not with ANY of my collection . and please. check my sig, its worth a fortune. and i absorb my monthly running costs and sell my stock cheaper than mrket level prices BECAUSE I CAN! again, sorry that i have more spare cash than you lot that feel the need to ask for £150 each for their hogs.

my animals are top quality, planned pairings and i NURTURE themuntil they are ready to go to new homes.

you dont like it? put me on ignore. or send me a hate mail.

hey, i havent had a hate mail since i said i would sell CB leopard torts to petshops!


i really dont give a shit. i DONT need to make £150 a hog to maintain my hobby.......


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

:lol2:


Tao said:


> i think its crack houses your into not pet shops ste loyd.:lol2:


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

fantapants said:


> if you dont breed from your disbabled rehomers then good for you.


no I do not - disabled/deformed should not be bred from

Neither would I ever allow an APH to go to a pet shop no matter what IF I did breed


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## ste_lloyd (Feb 7, 2009)

Tao said:


> i think its crack houses your into not pet shops ste loyd.:lol2:


Not only are you illiterate but also uncouth and bad mannered. Your opinion, though warped, may be valid in your own rose tinted little world but has very little to do with reality. Unless you can say anything constructive please keep your sad little remarks to yourself.


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## Reptileaddict (Jul 30, 2009)

fantapants said:


> you dont like it? put me on ignore. or send me a hate mail.
> 
> 
> 
> i really dont give a shit. i DONT need to make £150 a hog to maintain my hobby.......



I am not that childish thank you 

And i never said you need to make a lot of money from it i was talking about pet shops NOT YOU !!!

I cant be doing with little know it all's


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Reptileaddict said:


> I am not that childish thank you
> 
> And i never said you need to make a lot of money from it i was talking about pet shops NOT YOU !!!
> 
> I cant be doing with little know it all's


 
Thats good.........i MAKE nothing from my breedings. i do it for the sheer joy, pleasure and satisfaction of knowing that my animals are healthy enough to reproduce.


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

This is getting really silly. 

And some of us dont breed and sell them to make £150 to maintain their hobby. 

I donate an awful amount of money back into wild hog charities with the money I make. The rest goes into my vet account so I can take on rehomes if needed.


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## CJP (May 3, 2008)

I wasnt going to post on this thread but I do have one question that I have to ask...Fantapants if you have a good reputation with hogs (which I am assuming you do as you were wanting to know how someone thought that you didnt have a good one) how do you have any left that you can sell to a petshop?? 
Most good breeders have waiting lists as long as their arms even though they sell their hogs for more than you and wouldnt have any to be able to sell a whole litter to a pet shop if they wanted to...

Like I say not passing judgement...just a question


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Well its nice to see this carried on even after the peace was made 

all i can say is wow how inviting to new hog owners this thread really looks 


(and for those that see nothing wrong with it i suggest you read it all the way through again from the start)


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## Choggie (Apr 27, 2009)

Blimey - this has certainly put a few backs up!

I breed my own APH's at home and yes I do sell them in my own shop - my choglets are all kept at my home and any prospective owner will visit my home to see my breeding group and also the available litters and this gives them the opportunity to see how I look after my choggies and also gives me the opportunity to "vet" them as potential owners. 

Not all pet shops are irresponsible but there are some out there who keep them in together or advertise them as pairs giving the impression that they are OK to be kept in together which if anybody does their research will know that this is wrong. We have one local to us who is currently selling them at £ 250.00 each - again, if prospective owners do their research they know that this is way above the standard price for one - people who pay this amount are purchasing on impulse and these are the ones that will probably end up on classifieds months later at a reduced price.

As for socialising, my hedghogs at home are used to being handled in the day and night - there are times in the day when I need to get them out to show prospective new owners and as mine are handled daily they take this in their stride - now the dark nights are here mine are coming out of their own accord from 5.00pm in the evenings and I am lucky enough to have a large exercise area where the girls (who haven't got any litters) can play together - there are plenty of tunnels and wheels for them to run on. The boys go out seperately after the girls and whoever is sitting on the sofa will at some point get a choggie on their knee.

When my babies are weaned I will take them and mum down to the shop where they have a large pen that they can exercise in and there are plenty of hide aways for them as well and mum appreciates a little time to have some serious cuddles.

My son did a school assembly on Monday for his year group on APH's and he took three girls with him to show them - they were all well behaved and managed to poop on us and not the pupils but I was very proud of the presentation he gave as not only did he get across the fun side of owing one he also got across their care requirements and the fact that they should never be an impulse purchase.

I currently have 10 hedgehogs and all of them are spoilt rotten and given the best care and attention possible - a litter of choggies is always a welcome thing and it is nice to find them responsible and loving homes - over the last few weeks I have had four litters with a total of 14 babies - all have been weaned on a diet of cat biscuits, boiled chicken, boiled mince and scrambled eggs and I thank the co-op that they have had chicken fillets on offer at two packs for £ 5.00 and the same with the mince!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I really cant believe how an innocent thread turned into such a biatchfest.

I have met Fantapants hogs and they have wonderful setups and are much loved pets which are very sociable and well handled.Her Exotic room is amazing and all her animals are kept in wonderful conditions and I could find no fault with anything
I have also met the owner of the pet shop who is not your average petshop owner. She always puts her animals first and has many years experiance in all kinds of exotics. My first hog came from her before she had a petshop and he is a pleasure to own

Why do people feel the need to make unfair despicable comments about people/things they have no facts on other than a few written words


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Hi Shell 

Pics are in the picture bit of her now


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

And what great pics they are :2thumb::no1:


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks Emma  SO pleased with her.

So friendly, and inquisitive. Truely is fascinating to was her shuffle about in her hedgehog way lol


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> Thanks Emma  SO pleased with her.
> 
> So friendly, and inquisitive. Truely is fascinating to was her shuffle about in her hedgehog way lol


 
hee hee the womble shuffle ahhh yes i do miss that :flrt::flrt:

i love it when they snuffle at something then lick their lips and nose its sooooo cute :flrt:


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> hee hee the womble shuffle ahhh yes i do miss that :flrt::flrt:
> 
> i love it when they snuffle at something then lick their lips and nose its sooooo cute :flrt:


 She was doing that to my wallet and the lucozade bottle haha


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> She was doing that to my wallet and the lucozade bottle haha


its so sweet when they lick you really tickles :lol2:


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

She was licking my thumb this morning lol


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

she definately looks like a happy lil hog from the pics you put up hun :2thumb:


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

It's scary in this section. She's a lovely hoggie, really cute too.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LiamRatSnake said:


> It's scary in this section. She's a lovely hoggie, really cute too.


LOL there are some nice threads in here too ya know :Na_Na_Na_Na:LOL


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Haha more scary than the tortoise bit, i thought that was bad lol

 Some really nice and helpful people in here though


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## EVIEMAY (Mar 6, 2008)

GOBSMACKED doesn't cover it - I cant believe this thread has turned so nasty.

There is so much I want to say but as I have spent so long reading it - then replying to it - then accidently deleted it before I got a chance to post it so I am keeping it simple.

Firstly I bought my APH from Fantapants - he came with his own personalised pouch - enough of his food mix to last weeks - his own fleeces that he had been used too and the reassurence that I could phone at any time for advice.

Secondly - I am sad that the conversation between Fantapants and Animal Addict turned out the way it did - as they are both very passionate about their animals and a great help to alot of people.

Finally - WTF gives TAO the right to make a comment like that about Ste LLoyd ....


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## EVIEMAY (Mar 6, 2008)

Tom glad you have finally got your little hoggie - they are a wonderful pet.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Tomcat wait until she self annoints that is really cute:flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

EVIEMAY said:


> GOBSMACKED doesn't cover it - I cant believe this thread has turned so nasty.
> 
> There is so much I want to say but as I have spent so long reading it - then replying to it - then accidently deleted it before I got a chance to post it so I am keeping it simple.
> 
> ...


 
Sadly a lot of threads turn out this way


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Sadly a lot of threads turn out this way


thats so true shell 

but at least tom is happy as a hog in shizer with his new hedgiepig :2thumb:


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Tomcat wait until she self annoints that is really cute:flrt:


She was doing it last night when i got her home, made me laugh.

I could see why it would worry new owners, but i had expected it and wondered when she was going to do it haha 

It looks so cute


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

EVIEMAY said:


> Tom glad you have finally got your little hoggie - they are a wonderful pet.


 
Thanks Eviemay  She is fantastic!


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

:gasp::gasp::gasp: I think a few of you on here should be totaly bloody ashamed of yourselves for judging each other and speaking to each other the way you have, its disgraceful and certainly no help to anyone. 

Personally I bought my gorgeous little hoggy from Fantapants - I paid £150 which I was more than happy with - he is a real joy and in fairness a credit to Fantapants as he's friendly, trusting but a little cautious and in my opinion she did a great job with rearing him in his early weeks. The courier (SW Reptile Couriers) who delivered him even remarked on how friendly and lovely he was.

Although I am a little disappointed that Fantapants has sold any of her litter/s to a pet shop I do trust her judgement on a hoggy professional level that the shop concerned would not in any way jeopardise the great work she'll already have done with the young animals. I feel sure that she would not have picked the pet lightly and like I say I feel certain that I can trust her judgement of the shop and its owners.

Why can't people have a little more respect for each other and instead of shouting loudly maybe try listening to each other for a change?


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

Mrs Mental said:


> Although I am a little disappointed that Fantapants has sold any of her litter/s to a pet shop


This is purely my point - I dont have a problem with the way fantapants has her hedgies etc from a household perspective - I firmly believe that hedgies do not belong in pet shops in any circumstance - I do know people have pet shops but breed their hedgies at home - thats fine as people come to the house etc but they do not belong in pet shops to be left alone all night and I dont think good breeders should be encouraging it. 

Its also some what hypocritical too because everyone always advises to go to the breeder and not to a pet shop - look on the other animal chats - everyone always says you will get better quality from a breeder etc and its been said in rattie posts, rabbit posts, guinea pig posts the list goes on!! Hoglets will be better socialised and remain socialised staying with a breeder than knocking around in a pet shop

From the AMERICAN code of ethics:
'It is recommended that breeders do not sell to any Commercial wholesale or retail pet dealers.' I chose the american one so not to be biased as I know the UK one states that it is not recommended to sell to pet shops. 

Tomcat - its best to discourage the licking - it may lead to a bite - not particularly one to be nasty but shes obv licking you because your tasty and she may want to sample you and/or annoint over you - once they think biting is ok it can become an established behavior which is quite hard to stop


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## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

animal addict said:


> Tomcat - its best to discourage the licking - it may lead to a bite - not particularly one to be nasty but shes obv licking you because your tasty and she may want to sample you and/or annoint over you - once they think biting is ok it can become an established behavior which is quite hard to stop


Hiya

Yeah i had read that previously, so will put a stop to it next time she does it


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## alfie99 (Oct 12, 2007)

I have not posted here to argue or get into any discussions over the ethics. Animal addict you are entitled to your opinion like anyone else but DO NOT tar all pet shops with the same brush, and please do not make assumptions over the welfare of any animal kept by myself.
Well here is a pick of the unsocialised hogs in question,
By the way I am not joined at the hip to know one.


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## Choggie (Apr 27, 2009)

I do agree that not all pet shops should be tarred with the same brush - as with anything a small minority can spoil it for the majority which is such a shame. 

I had a phone call from a member of staff at a shop local to us who were purchasing African Pygmy Hedgehogs and wanted me to tell them how to look after them - ethically should I have done so? If you are going to have any animal for sale it is up to the individual shop to research their care requirements before actually stocking them. 

The nicest compliment that we had was last weekend when a new customer came to our shop and remarked how nice it was to see the animals actually been handled - at this point Matt J had our frilled lizard on his shoulder and I was feeding my male choggie Boss Hog.

Hedgehogs are available through different wholesalers,(one of which gets bad press on here) not just breeders - if I didn't breed my own I would rather buy from a breeder than a wholesaler as I feel that I would be getting a socialised hoglet that had been well cared for.

I particularly love the unsocialised hoglet that looks like it has just pooped or is about to - never ceases to amaze me exactly how big their backsides actually are!!


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i just came on here to say that i can personally vouch for cheron and steve, theyre not just pet shop owners but also pet owners, long before they got their shop and they are wonderful with their animals, both their private collection and their shop ones. 
need to come see you soon steve and cheron, i hope things continue to do well

i also know several reputable pet shops, mainly people who have started up cos of their love of animals not money. Actually someone who is a good member of the hog forum has just recently set up shop, i wonder if she will get slated and cast out because she is now a dreaded pet shop owner??
i would prefer to sell privately, though there are a couple of pet shops who i would have no problem with selling live stock to (cheron and steve being one of them) as i know that they will be cared for properly and will be sold to the appropriate people. sometimes i feel that if good private breeders didnt sell animals to pet shops then they would just get their animals elsewhere, meaning that ( and im referin mainly to reptiles ) a lot of wild caught animals would be in shops, or the quality of animals would be less, meanin it could have a knock on effect for all of us


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## LauraandLee (Nov 11, 2008)

I love this song 
YouTube - Meredith Brooks - I'm a bitch, I'm a lover Lyrics :2thumb:


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

:lol2: who gave you the right to put that on here hehe


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

come on answer the question stroppy one. imense uncoth person. :devil:


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## LauraandLee (Nov 11, 2008)

Who gives u the right to comment on my song!!!!

What the hell does uncloth mean :lol2:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

LauraandLee said:


> Who gives u the right to comment on my song!!!!
> 
> What the hell does uncloth mean :lol2:


There is no such word as "Uncoth", but if he (or she? it?) means 'Uncouth' then that means strange, akward, clumsy...etc.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> There is no such word as "Uncoth", but if he (or she? it?) means 'Uncouth' then that means strange, akward, clumsy...etc.


 
Also means :- Unrefined, crude :gasp: I thought al members on here were pure, angelic and refined:whistling2:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Also means :- Unrefined, crude :gasp: I thought al members on here were pure, angelic and refined:whistling2:


:lol2: of course we all are, lovely friendly bunch here..... (NOT) :2thumb::whistling2:
ETA: with the exception of a select few, me not being one of them .... :whistling2:


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## Tao (Oct 16, 2009)

:lol2: uncloth. its ok im illiterate. :2thumb:


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