# Where hav all the fish shops gone



## bigdek (Nov 21, 2011)

Twenty years ago I liked my fish had lots of tanks with many different fish

Been away from it along time and now fancy something again

But most of the pets hops are long gone and any place remotely close me only stock the usual bread and butter stuff no unusual or fancy stuff and all small no bigger or grown on stuff

So what's happened has the hobby died on its arse and no demand for a lot of stuff any more

When I was in my late teens (1989) I worked in a fab pet shop had over 100 tanks and the variety of fish was amazing. We had three or four big fish deliveries every week. That place made a fortune every week 

Which has me wondering if I made my garage into a fish house and git some stock of the slightly different stuff fancy cats plecs some bigger stuff would I have a market


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

round my way, all the fish shops that sold the more unusual stuff have either gone, or gone 'bread & butter'. the one i depended on most for the rare/different stuff was fishy friends in basildon shopping centre- they shut down 3 years ago. there are 5 other shops- 1 in rayleigh, 3 in southend, & 1 in pitsea. of the 5, 3 of them usually had a fair few unusual fish until about 5 years ago- they now stock almost just bread & butter species, with the odd rare plec, rainbow or other odd species once in a blue moon. as for pairs of adult cichlids- forget it! in the past 5 years or so, only fishy friends ever had them.

not naming any existing shops, but the one in rayleigh used to sell:
killies
lots of rare plecs
lots of rare synos
lots of dwarf cichlids
pairs of adult medium/large cichlids
other oddballs.
they now sell:
no killies
few rare plecs
hardly any synos
few dwarf cichlids
no pairs of adult cichlids
few other oddballs.

the shop in central southend used to sell:
killies
lots of rare plecs
lots of rare synos
lots of dwarf cichlids
pairs of adult large cichlids
lots of other oddballs.
they now sell:
no killies
hardly any rare plecs
no synos
few dwarf cichlids
no pairs of large cichlids
few other oddballs once in a blue moon.

the shop in pitsea varies, still selling some of the above mentioned, but nothing like what they used to stock, & no adult cichlids lately either.


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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

i think most sales of bigger fish and oddballs have moved online. if you're in the hobby you get better money by sale to other fish keepers direct rather than taking fish back to you're local shop for a credit note !! 
so many shops have gone or as you say just still sell the bread and butter stock that new fish keepers are looking for .
if i was you mate id look local for fish auctions and club meets.you can find some real gems if you know the right people.
shops i used to go to are 
1 swallow aquatics stanway
2 swallow aquatics rayleigh
and finaly wickford aquatics 

the 2 swallaow shops used to be fantastic for the more serious fish keeper and the shop at stanway had a gem of a guy called paul who was one of them shop staff that once you find you keep hold of !! but sadly he left and not to long after both shops went down hill (imo) and now sell mostly the bread and butter stuff .
the shop at wickford still has a wide range of fish and i will travel the 50 mile round trip from time to time just on the off chance .most of the fresh water stock is from fish retuned to the shop or from local keepers looking to move on young fry . but be on you're toes !!! this shop will mix and mach fish with minimal health cheeks so you need to look over the fish .

it seems to me that the hole sale of fish for the keen keeper has moved to the on line sites like aquatics classified and in to the club and auction seen .
word of mouth is the new shop !!!! lol : victory:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hemps123 said:


> i think most sales of bigger fish and oddballs have moved online. if you're in the hobby you get better money by sale to other fish keepers direct rather than taking fish back to you're local shop for a credit note !!
> so many shops have gone or as you say just still sell the bread and butter stock that new fish keepers are looking for .
> if i was you mate id look local for fish auctions and club meets.you can find some real gems if you know the right people.
> shops i used to go to are
> ...


the rayleigh shop i mentioned was swallows. they used to stock adult cichlids either as pairs, or of sexable size- now they only sell juvenile, unsexable sized cichlids. adult cichlids are now almost impossible to find in most shops.
the problem with buying online is that delivery costs by courier make it extremely expensive, plus you have to be home for the delivery.
another fish you can't get lately is nannacara anomala- these beatiful, easy to keeo dwarf cichlids were once sold by all the shops i mentioned- but not anymore. the only shop to make a real effort to stock them all the time, was fishy friends, who had them right up until they shut down. they used to sell out of them, too- but always restocked, as they were popular. so why does nobody else sell these & others like them?


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

It's a sad and true fact, the little independent shops where you could get personal care and interesting stuff have gone the way of the dodo, with Pets at Home and Maidenhead Aquatics coming into the market people are drawn to them and not to the littler shops. Also with the raise of eBay and online shopping undercutting shops it becomes harder and harder. Sadly the shop where I cut my teeth suffered from declining sales and increase in rent and shut down last year.

I know some people who have started to breed up their fish and sell them, either online or to local groups/clubs, but it's more pocket money than a living. A word of warning, check with your local council regarding the need for pet shop licences, over a certain amount of fish in one place with the intention of selling them requires different licences.

The hobby is not dead, in fact with manufacturers like AquaOne and Hagen churning out smaller, cheaper tanks I'd say it was bigger than ever, but unfortunately the local shops have been pushed out by the big boys. If you find a good local shop, support it all you can.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Fargle said:


> It's a sad and true fact, the little independent shops where you could get personal care and interesting stuff have gone the way of the dodo, with Pets at Home and Maidenhead Aquatics coming into the market people are drawn to them and not to the littler shops. Also with the raise of eBay and online shopping undercutting shops it becomes harder and harder. Sadly the shop where I cut my teeth suffered from declining sales and increase in rent and shut down last year.
> 
> I know some people who have started to breed up their fish and sell them, either online or to local groups/clubs, but it's more pocket money than a living. A word of warning, check with your local council regarding the need for pet shop licences, over a certain amount of fish in one place with the intention of selling them requires different licences.
> 
> The hobby is not dead, in fact with manufacturers like AquaOne and Hagen churning out smaller, cheaper tanks I'd say it was bigger than ever, but unfortunately the local shops have been pushed out by the big boys. If you find a good local shop, support it all you can.


actually, according to reviews of maidenhead aquatics in the aquatic press, they don't sound bad, with largish selections of unusual fish- but there isn't a branch near me to find out.
the assistant manager of the shop in southend told me that one reason for the decline in choice for the aquarist who likes something unusual, is the emergence of the 'moron culture' in the hobby- people who aren't serious fishkeepers, know little about fish & aren't prepared to learn, & just point at a tank & say 'i want the red one there', with little idea of what they're keeping beyond what colour they are. the kind of people who try to keep 2 male dwarf gouramis because the females are 'boring', even though 2 males will fight- they aren't interested in the fact that the reason why a tank full of them don't fight is cos they don't get to form territories in the shop tank. that kind of fishkeeper apparently makes up a large percentage of the customer base of many shops these days, and cos they aren't interested in the more unusual fish, the shops have little motivation to stock them.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

wilkinss77 said:


> actually, according to reviews of maidenhead aquatics in the aquatic press, they don't sound bad, with largish selections of unusual fish- but there isn't a branch near me to find out.


I wasn't saying MHA or [email protected] were bad, I've heard some good thing about them as well, although apparently there are good and bad ones. It's just that the likes of the name brands pushing out the independent shops, like many examples in other industries. 

I agree with the moron culture whole heartedly, although I'm not sure this is a new phenomenon, surely that sort of behavior must have happened since the industry began?

I know that it's a bit of a "get out clause" but the economic down turn must have hampered the availability of fancy/interesting fish. Why stock 2 fish in a tank that cost £100 each and take months to sell when you can put 100 fish each costing £1 and will sell in a couple of weeks?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Fargle said:


> I agree with the moron culture whole heartedly, although I'm not sure this is a new phenomenon, surely that sort of behavior must have happened since the industry began?


they've always been there, but were previously too small a minority to make much difference- the guy who told me about the moron culture in the hobby, said it's cos within the last 5 years, they've started to take over the hobby, to the point where shops have to cater mainly for them, rather than the more serious hobbyist.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

The number of bricks and mortar shops has decreased over the last fifteen years or so. Online sales are the largest contributing factor. 

As someone who owns an aquatics business which sells aquatic related goods but not fish I have little sympathy, the reason being some small traders have embraced e-commerce and plenty of small shops have thriving websites or ebay / amazon enterprises where they can still sell online reaching out to the whole of the UK and beyond.

Many shops have not changed their business model and have gone bust as a result. If I was going to open an LFS next week it would be a business built around online sales.

Bread and butter species account for around 98% of all fish sold, so it's not really surprising that shops focus on these. Stocking a £79 rare Synodontis which might die on you is risky, and it might be sat in your tanks for over a year before finally being sold.

However, after keeping ornamentals for over thirty years I'd say there are more species readily available to fishkeepers than there ever has been for those who are prepared to look for them.

Tropicalfishfinder can be quite good. There are also a few decent local clubs whos members keep and breed uber rare species. You just need to look hard for what you want.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Jack's Pets | Sales Flyer










it's all good here...:2thumb:


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

It's good here. There are a few issues within the trade. We used to sell products made by Ocean Nutrition, then they signed a deal with a company who were to become their sole UK distributor. This wholesaler didn't supply companies who only sell online to try and protect the bricks and mortar shops.

After a complaint to ON's sales director we were given an account with them, but a year later they've upped the stakes and have since stopped the sales of goods made by several manufacturers on ebay and amazon. Sadly the law does currently allow them to do this.

So, this wholesaler now has a guy running daily searches on these third party sites and getting any listings he finds pulled for several brands.

Apparently this is good for the industry. Me, I just replaced all the products with those from other companies and sales have remained the same......


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

business opportunities there it seems!: victory:


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

i think that although the maidenheads have pushed out smaller businesses they are damn good shops. they still use individual wholesalers, many different dry goods companies etc.

it's a uk based large company thats actually owned by local people ( each store has a main shareholder and a local owner). They are good at what they do supplying some amazing fish. you just have to look in pfk each month to see that most months a maidenhead is featured. round here we have maidenheads that seem to compete with each other which is great as the fish are crazy rare! ( p.s i don't work for maidenhead lol)


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> The number of bricks and mortar shops has decreased over the last fifteen years or so. Online sales are the largest contributing factor.
> 
> As someone who owns an aquatics business which sells aquatic related goods but not fish I have little sympathy, the reason being some small traders have embraced e-commerce and plenty of small shops have thriving websites or ebay / amazon enterprises where they can still sell online reaching out to the whole of the UK and beyond.
> 
> ...


yes, but the point that the O.P & myself were making, is that you used to see a mix of bread & butter & unusual/rare fish, in most shops, without having to try too hard. recently, most shops seem to be stocking nearly 100% bread & butter species, not even stocking a few of the more unusual fish- take a look at my list of what shops in my area used to stock, & what they stock now, also what one of them told me about the reason why.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

exoticsandtropics said:


> i think that although the maidenheads have pushed out smaller businesses they are damn good shops. they still use individual wholesalers, many different dry goods companies etc.
> 
> it's a uk based large company thats actually owned by local people ( each store has a main shareholder and a local owner). They are good at what they do supplying some amazing fish. you just have to look in pfk each month to see that most months a maidenhead is featured. round here we have maidenheads that seem to compete with each other which is great as the fish are crazy rare! ( p.s i don't work for maidenhead lol)


i too, have heard all this about them- about all the rare & unusual fish they stock- but for some reason they won't open any branches in this area. and they have been around for 20+ years, so it's not as if they haven't had the chance to get round to it yet.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

HABU said:


> business opportunities there it seems!: victory:


There's quite a few aquatic industry related opportunities. It's very easy to make profit from this hooby, be it a fishkeeper with just two or three tanks, to commercial size enterprises. 

Give it a few years and aquaponics will be a lot bigger here too.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> yes, but the point that the O.P & myself were making, is that you used to see a mix of bread & butter & unusual/rare fish, in most shops, without having to try too hard. recently, most shops seem to be stocking nearly 100% bread & butter species, not even stocking a few of the more unusual fish- take a look at my list of what shops in my area used to stock, & what they stock now, also what one of them told me about the reason why.


I was replying to the OP.

Thing is, the aquatics industy is a multi million dollar industry. So you can't base everything on what you see in a few local shops. There are plenty of LFS which still stock more unusual species. 

The reason though that bread and butter types are more popular is because over the last twenty years or so, aquariums have become more lifestyle product than suitable pet habitat.

You no longer see rectangular clearview tanks for sale with angle iron stands, aquaria now are aimed at those who want a nice looking living room, the needs of the fish are not even considered with many tanks. Take the Fluavl Edge death trap for example. Few people are interested in water chemistry, natural behaviour and recreating a natural biotope, all they want are pretty guppies and endlers.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

Very interesting discussion going on in here

I've worked in aquatic shops for nearly ten years now, and in that relatively short period of time, alot has changed.

The decrease of big cichlids is that most people dont really have the tanks to accommodate larger fish, they just buy small ones and hope they wont grow.
That and the cost of shipping and delivery costs that wholesalers charge, it would just make the fish too expensive.

The is a lot of 'moron culture' as someone put it, people just want fish to look nice, many a time people buy fish without knowing what they've got already. Some people dont even know how big their tanks are. You ask them how they treat their water etc and you get a vague look, with 'I just use a little bit of that blue stuff'.

People are not as fishy friendly as they used to be, you get the odd old person who tells you their life story of keeping fish and it does make a change, but most people just want to slap a load of fish in a tank and clean them out once in a while.

In regards to rare fish, most independent shops make up the small majority of larger shops all after the same stock, so the larger chains usually get all the better stuff because they are buying in such large quantities. And when you do finally get the nice rare plecs and cats, joe bloggs with more money than sense comes along and just sees it as a statement fish to impress his mates and buys it, not really knowing much of what he's doing or any special requirements. People just dont listen, you can be telling them something for their own good, or that of the fish mind, and you can see it all going in one ear and out the other.

I've just started working at a shop that has recently been sold off, I hope to get some of the stranger looking and rarer stuff back in and bring back some of the older element of it all. Its only a small shop, but I want us to have a big impact. We're already adding in tanks for cichlids, and a marine section is next on the horizon shortly after.
I was even thinking a small discus section too, proper discus not so callled tap water ones. That may or may not happen though.

Its in the Essex area, and we haven't got much fish in at the moment, taking baby steps with orders so we dont go too crazy too early on. But hopefully big things will come of this. Dont take my word for it though haha

Any fish requests, either fresh or salty, we'll see what we can do.


Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> Very interesting discussion going on in here
> 
> I've worked in aquatic shops for nearly ten years now, and in that relatively short period of time, alot has changed.
> 
> ...


i'd hardly call tranquility a small shop. i remember when they had a lot of rare stuff, but went the bread & butter route a few years ago, when they got rid off all the marines & discus, & started selling pet foods & reptiles in their place. didn't know they'd been sold off though. glad to hear you're gonna bring the shop back round to how it was.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

As much as i would like to turn tranquility around, it is another shop that i am leaving tranquility for.

It was a shame when the marines and discus were shut down, but at that time reptiles were 'taking over' and its easier in some cases to sell reptile products moreso than marine.

As for the pet stuff, we've stopped doing that because people prefer to buy it cheaper from pets at home or online.


Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> As much as i would like to turn tranquility around, it is another shop that i am leaving tranquility for.
> 
> It was a shame when the marines and discus were shut down, but at that time reptiles were 'taking over' and its easier in some cases to sell reptile products moreso than marine.
> 
> ...


oh, i see. is the new shop in rainham? if so i know where you mean. spoke to the owner on the phone a few weeks back & he said much the same as you.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

No its not in Rainham, but i did work part time at that one
and it has changed hands sort of.
One of the owners who worked there sold up,and now the other 2 guys still own it, but its now someone else managing it.

Stopped working at Rainham, and the place where I am going, was supposed to be a replacement part time job, but somethings happened and I was offered 6 days a week, and I've been at Tranquility too long now really, its just a way out into something else. And as much as I love reptiles, I get to play with marine again soon.

The shop is about a third of the size of Tranquility, it needs a bit of TLC and some paint and upgrading, but its getting there.

Cant really say much else unfortunately, apart from watch this space.
Once I'm there permanently, and the owner has finalised the in and outs of naming/re-naming etc, we'll start advertising and trying to push the shop forward.

Any input is welcome, and hopefully put to good use


Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> No its not in Rainham, but i did work part time at that one
> and it has changed hands sort of.
> One of the owners who worked there sold up,and now the other 2 guys still own it, but its now someone else managing it.
> 
> ...


hopefully it's in an area i can get to without a car.


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## KingElf (Sep 23, 2013)

We have 2 decent aquatics shops in Exeter (not sure where your based thou)
Richards aquatics in market street Richards Aquatics - Exeter - Wellington
and Exeter aquatics in Shaftbury road 
Exeter Aquatics
doubt this is much help to though


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

dazdaraz said:


> Very interesting discussion going on in here
> 
> I've worked in aquatic shops for nearly ten years now, and in that relatively short period of time, alot has changed.
> 
> ...


Have big cichlids ever been popular in the trade? Adult cichlids must represent less than 0.01 of all ornamental fish available in the UK industry right now. When I worked in an LFS as a kid over twenty years ago they were still not that popular back then. Their territorial nature means they'll never be that popular, despite exhibiting some of the most interesting behavior in the fishy world. 

You mention people buying goods from [email protected] and online, this is the point I was making earlier really, why don't you sell online? The prices in that chain are not massively competitive and plenty of the larger dry goods wholesalers supply goods at prices which would allow you to compete.  

I'm not sure what you mean by 'real discus' though? Do you mean F0 fish? You might find that because their colouration is comparibly drab that they won't sell well compared to tank strains of fish.

Serious discus keepers tend to buy from well known breeders also as opposed to LFS, but it can be done if you can achieve a good reputation.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> Have big cichlids ever been popular in the trade? Adult cichlids must represent less than 0.01 of all ornamental fish available in the UK industry right now. When I worked in an LFS as a kid over twenty years ago they were still not that popular back then. Their territorial nature means they'll never be that popular, despite exhibiting some of the most interesting behavior in the fishy world.
> 
> You mention people buying goods from [email protected] and online, this is the point I was making earlier really, why don't you sell online? The prices in that chain are not massively competitive and plenty of the larger dry goods wholesalers supply goods at prices which would allow you to compete.
> 
> ...


you used to get at least a few big cichlids in most shops- now you're lucky to see any at all. even dwarf cichlids, which aren't as territorial, can be kept in smaller tanks with other fish, aren't as easy to get anymore.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> you used to get at least a few big cichlids in most shops- now you're lucky to see any at all. even dwarf cichlids, which aren't as territorial, can be kept in smaller tanks with other fish, aren't as easy to get anymore.


 
The shops near you sound crap....

Dwarfs are common around here. I bought a wild caught pait of Nannochromis transvesticus about a month ago, hopefully they'll breed soon.

On topic, the stock lists I havefrom suppliers always have plenty of dwarfs on, be they South American or West African. 

Realistically, the only large adult cichlids you see for sale are those returned from customers. The costs of importing and selling them make them unrealistic for LFS to trade in, you'll see them if you look, but they've never been 'common'. 

Did you ever see oddballexpress when he was selling imported cichlids?


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

When i said about 'real discus',
I was referring to them being kept in soft water,
not the hard water ones that you see in a few shops.

I've never a hard water one that i really liked, whereas soft water ones
always seem more attractive to me


Daz


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

dazdaraz said:


> When i said about 'real discus',
> I was referring to them being kept in soft water,
> not the hard water ones that you see in a few shops.
> 
> ...


I still don't understand what you mean to be honest.

F0 and those bred n Germany tend to be produced in softer water. Those bred in the Far East harder water. But the strains can be the same. How would you tell the difference from visuals alone?


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## GuardianReptileCourier (May 7, 2011)

sadly its the same old story, the internet has killed traditional businesses.
people breed in their bedrooms and sell online as joe blogs uk no 1 breeder , with no overheads, cheap as chips.

internet was / is a great invention and tool, but has many downsides too.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> The shops near you sound crap....
> 
> Dwarfs are common around here. I bought a wild caught pait of Nannochromis transvesticus about a month ago, hopefully they'll breed soon.
> 
> ...


the shops near me have _gone _crap, mynki. take a look at my earlier post, the one where i listed what they sell now, compared with what the same shops used to sell a few years ago- all of those shops used to be good.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

GuardianReptileCourier said:


> sadly its the same old story, the internet has killed traditional businesses.
> people breed in their bedrooms and sell online as joe blogs uk no 1 breeder , with no overheads, cheap as chips.
> 
> internet was / is a great invention and tool, but has many downsides too.


yeah, but selling fish online costs the buyer too much, on account of the courier fees often outweighing that of the fish.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GuardianReptileCourier said:


> sadly its the same old story, the internet has killed traditional businesses.
> people breed in their bedrooms and sell online as joe blogs uk no 1 breeder , with no overheads, cheap as chips.
> 
> internet was / is a great invention and tool, but has many downsides too.


Business has evolved, and some have embraced it and prospered. Others didn't quite get it and went uner. Their own fault....

Backroom breeders don't affect the aquatics hobby at all though. They contribute to it as they don't produce bread and butter species.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

I work in a little independent shop that has been open well over 20 years. We have our good and bad weeks trade wise and we are finding more and more people buy their equipment online. It's very frustrating for us and extremely annoying when someone brings in say an external filter purchased online, that has broken and they expect us to fix it for them for free! 
We are mostly here for fish sales now, we often get complaints about pets at home etc but people still shop there. Large stores coupled with online buying will be the death of small shops like ours, so if you prefer small ones to chain ones then support them!

Also as someone else mentioned some companies have stopped supplying via a wholesaler and we now have to purchase direct. Minimum spend being £250-300 for a small shop like ours this can be difficult especially since biorb have changed to this method and slashed our discount because we don't sell the whole range!

ETA: we specialise in L no plecs and usually have many dwarf chiclids in. People do come to us because of the variety and we have a few very loyal customers because of that.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> the shops near me have _gone _crap, mynki. take a look at my earlier post, the one where i listed what they sell now, compared with what the same shops used to sell a few years ago- all of those shops used to be good.


Shops only sell what they get asked for though Steve. 

There are several big players supplying UK LFS, all of which do stock rarer species, it's just that most don't want them. I've had this conversation with the sales manager of the company which owns all the fish for sale in [email protected] stores in the North. [email protected] do not own their fish they have two companies in the UK selling them through their stores. They really can source just about anything from suppliers worldwide, they just can't shift more unusual species in the quantities needed to justify filling their stock tanks with them. Their warehouse must have almost 60 stock tanks of guppies, endlers and platties. 

No doubt you've seen the new man made Synodontis hybrids over the last few years? These are resulting in the real thing disappearing from the hobby too which is a real shame. 

Why is it hard to find Microsynodontis species too? They make a lot of sense as small, easy to keep and peaceful fish, so why do you hardly ever see them for sale? 

It's just like the reptile industry where all the focus is on corns and royals. 

Most types will have a dedicated group trying to promote their keeping and care though.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> I work in a little independent shop that has been open well over 20 years. We have our good and bad weeks trade wise and we are finding more and more people buy their equipment online.


So why are you not selling online? 

Why are you not evolving with your customers buying habits? 

If you go under due to lack of sales the reality will be that it was your fault, blaming online sales would just be a weak excuse, if online sales are where the business is moving too, why are you not chasing it seeing as your livelihood depends on it?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> Shops only sell what they get asked for though Steve.
> 
> There are several big players supplying UK LFS, all of which do stock rarer species, it's just that most don't want them. I've had this conversation with the sales manager of the company which owns all the fish for sale in [email protected] stores in the North. [email protected] do not own their fish they have two companies in the UK selling them through their stores. They really can source just about anything from suppliers worldwide, they just can't shift more unusual species in the quantities needed to justify filling their stock tanks with them. Their warehouse must have almost 60 stock tanks of guppies, endlers and platties.
> 
> ...


i get what you're saying. but in the case of the southend store, the owner tells me he still wants to stock the more unusual species, but is finding them hard to source, as his suppliers no longer stock them- he used to make regular trips to ruinemanns in rotterdam, but no longer finds the cost of travelling there worthwhile. he has, however, found a new supplier in vietnam, who has sent him a few shipments that he's been impressed with- he may even be able to get wild-caught dwarf gouramis- something you NEVER see anymore!
also, if [email protected] find it hard to shift unusual fish, how come maidenhead aquatics, also a chain like [email protected], don't seem to have that problem? in fact, they have a reputation for being great shops for the aquarist who likes something different- too bad they won't open a branch in my area.

i have indeed seen those horrid, deformed syno hybrids- yuk!
the nearest thing i've seen sizewise to microsynodontis, is synodontis petricola. but you're right- microsynodontis would make great aquarium fish- i just looked at the planet catfish site, & some of the microsynodontis have amazing colours.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

To me competing online and physically are two separate if related things. If I want to buy a simple piece of kit, and there is no difference whoever I buy it from, I would tend towards the cheapest.

However other factors will come into it. What if I need something in a hurry? For example, medication. Do I buy it from a local shop immediately or try to save a pound or two and wait a few days? There will always be a need for items in a store even if they're not the cheapest. With the recent royal fail price increases, I've noticed the gap closing a little too unless you buy in bigger quantities to dilute that.

What if it is a bulky and/or fragile item like a tank? It isn't the sort of thing you really want to be shipping, and if anything goes wrong returns will be more difficult too.

There are already many online stores shifting a lot of kit cheaply. With their volume they can get the best prices. A smaller shop isn't going to compete with them easily, so that in itself isn't a wise direction either. It is better to offer what they can't to differentiate yourself.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> i get what you're saying. but in the case of the southend store, the owner tells me he still wants to stock the more unusual species, but is finding them hard to source, as his suppliers no longer stock them- he used to make regular trips to ruinemanns in rotterdam, but no longer finds the cost of travelling there worthwhile. he has, however, found a new supplier in vietnam, who has sent him a few shipments that he's been impressed with- he may even be able to get wild-caught dwarf gouramis- something you NEVER see anymore!
> also, if [email protected] find it hard to shift unusual fish, how come maidenhead aquatics, also a chain like [email protected], don't seem to have that problem? in fact, they have a reputation for being great shops for the aquarist who likes something different- too bad they won't open a branch in my area.
> 
> i have indeed seen those horrid, deformed syno hybrids- yuk!
> the nearest thing i've seen sizewise to microsynodontis, is synodontis petricola. but you're right- microsynodontis would make great aquarium fish- i just looked at the planet catfish site, & some of the microsynodontis have amazing colours.


I didn't say [email protected] say it's hard to shift rare fish. 

The wholesaler who supplies their northern shops said that. They supply [email protected] and hundreds of other businesses as well. 

[email protected] aim straight for those who just want a pretty tank in their home, they don't consider the experienced keeper / breeder as their target market. 

I used to be a member of the BKA and breed laods of killifish, when you look at their colouration, it still amazes me that they're not far more popular than they actually are. Incidentally, the same wholesaler did say that they would purchase home bred killis from me if I could produce them in quantity, however I don't have the time these days and their suppliers in the Far East just don't cater for this market, so there is the opportunity there. They do list UK bred fish on their stocklists specifically, but these are all commercially bred pond fish, but shops are happy to pay a premium for UK fish. It just needds some clued up, LFS staff with business accumen to push them.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Mynki said:


> So why are you not selling online?
> 
> Why are you not evolving with your customers buying habits?
> 
> If you go under due to lack of sales the reality will be that it was your fault, blaming online sales would just be a weak excuse, if online sales are where the business is moving too, why are you not chasing it seeing as your livelihood depends on it?


I have been asking of we can sell online, but we can't compete with how cheap some are selling at. We don't have the vast amount of storage space to order the quantity of stock needed to get a good enough discount to compete. For us as a small business it's currently not possible.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

GlassWalker said:


> To me competing online and physically are two separate if related things. If I want to buy a simple piece of kit, and there is no difference whoever I buy it from, I would tend towards the cheapest.
> 
> However other factors will come into it. What if I need something in a hurry? For example, medication. Do I buy it from a local shop immediately or try to save a pound or two and wait a few days? There will always be a need for items in a store even if they're not the cheapest. With the recent royal fail price increases, I've noticed the gap closing a little too unless you buy in bigger quantities to dilute that.
> 
> ...


Several small pet shops sell through third party websites such as ebay and amazon. I know one locally who now sells more goods online than through the shop, so based on this and knowing we only get the same discounts as other shops from suppliers, I really can't agree with what you're saying at all.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

In my opinion to be successful online you have to be offering something unique. If you are selling all the same stuff as others and are more expensive, it's not going to work. Currently we would have to be selling twice the amount of say fish food online to make the same profit on one pot sold in the shop. 

Not to mention the extra wages that he would need to pay me as it would be a full time job, also need to factor in packing costs. It's not as simple as saying. 'Oh I'm going to sell stuff on eBay' there's lots of fees to factor in.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> In my opinion to be successful online you have to be offering something unique. If you are selling all the same stuff as others and are more expensive, it's not going to work. Currently we would have to be selling twice the amount of say fish food online to make the same profit on one pot sold in the shop.
> 
> Not to mention the extra wages that he would need to pay me as it would be a full time job, also need to factor in packing costs. It's not as simple as saying. 'Oh I'm going to sell stuff on eBay' there's lots of fees to factor in.


I can't agree with that either. Think about it, all the really popular aquatic products you can think of are already being sold online. Therefore they're not unique.

We sell plenty of goods at full RRP, a few even slighty more than RRP. It's a mistake to think that you need to be the cheapest to be succesfull. A quick check on ebay will show that those offering a particular product at a higher cost than everyone else still sell it. Feedback, pictures and a well worded listing matter every bit as much as price.

P&P costs are passed onto the customer. Obviously you don't sell goods at a loss. You already said you have quiter weeks, so that suggests to me that you have the time to put at least some effort into an online sales campaign.

Again, you say it can't be done and are complaining about online sales. Yet plenty of shops are already doing it, can you see why it would be hard to find sympathy for your shop if you did go bust?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> I didn't say [email protected] say it's hard to shift rare fish.
> 
> The wholesaler who supplies their northern shops said that. They supply [email protected] and hundreds of other businesses as well.
> 
> ...


during the 80s, killies did become very popular, & a lot of shops started selling them. wholesale tropicals in london even had a whole bank of tanks with just killies- rare ones, too. in fact, this was considered the shop to go to if you wanted killies. they still do them, but only a few now.
i'm waiting for the southend shop to get the wild-caught dwarf gouramis from the vietnam supplier- apparently they're listed as 'indigenous', so i guess they're the progeny of escapees from fish farms, that have reverted to their wild form. if they're anything like the original dwarfs, they should be smaller & more colourful than the ones you see now, & as tough as old boots.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

I'm not being funny, but I can't see someone online paying full RRP plus postage costs for things. A lot of the shops selling online are much bigger than ours. If you came for a visit I'm sure you would understand. 

I'll leave it at that, I have animals to see to.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> I'm not being funny, but I can't see someone online paying full RRP plus postage costs for things. A lot of the shops selling online are much bigger than ours. If you came for a visit I'm sure you would understand.
> 
> I'll leave it at that, I have animals to see to.


I'm not being funny either, but just because you can't see it happening doesn't mean it does not. A quick look through fleabay will show many popular products being sold at full RRP.

You're problem is that you assume your customer base (The whole of the UK and beyond) think the same way as you. Paying P&P can be much cheaper for many that it can be than driving to the nearest shop. A fact that explains why we see a disproportianate amount of goods to rural Scotland where there are no LFS. 

Again, I'm not being funny, but shops that want or hope they can survive as they are almost asking for trouble. Think about it, unless you try and up your sales you'll never know. But please, don't blame online retailers for ruining yourbusiness if you're not prepared to modernise and even try and survive.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

There are two fish shops local to me that have closed there doors within two Weeks of each other I know one of the owners so I asked him and he said it's the internet that's killing shops and big chains like pets at home


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

sometimes it makes no odds if you modernise & go online- fishy friends in basildon did just that- they shut down all the same. & they were the best shop in this area, catering for specialists as well as casual keepers of bread & butter species. they even stocked (& successfully sold) pairs of large cichlids, killies, rare catfish, etc. much of their stuff was bread & butter, but they never neglected the specialists. much of what i like to keep was only available from them round here.


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

I am also in the Essex area and although I keep a lot of the 'bread and butter' tropicals I do look for the rarer ones and the rarer marine species. 

My favourite shop is swallows in Rayleigh due to the amount of marine and tropicals stocked but recently I have been visiting H2O aquatics for marines and even though they are a small shop they do have some rarer stuff in.

It would be good to see some more shops around the area. Really I would like a Maidenhead aquatics nearer as I have never been but swallows and H2O are providing me with what I need at the minute.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> sometimes it makes no odds if you modernise & go online- fishy friends in basildon did just that- they shut down all the same. & they were the best shop in this area, catering for specialists as well as casual keepers of bread & butter species. they even stocked (& successfully sold) pairs of large cichlids, killies, rare catfish, etc. much of their stuff was bread & butter, but they never neglected the specialists. much of what i like to keep was only available from them round here.


Then if they were not successful they wereobviously not good enough to survive. Not everyone who sets up their own business has the ability to keep it going forever. 

People are forever banging on about how LFS staff don't know anything, and to be fair a good level of knowledge is needed to keep punters coming back, but that really is only half the battle. You need staff who can sell, people who can talk customers into buying those test kits, extra plants and a bit more livefood than perhaps they want. You also need to be able to market your shop. Loads of LFS are owned by people who are not true business people and thats the main reason why chains who have marketting budgets and who train their staff to sell survive.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Bradley said:


> I am also in the Essex area and although I keep a lot of the 'bread and butter' tropicals I do look for the rarer ones and the rarer marine species.
> 
> My favourite shop is swallows in Rayleigh due to the amount of marine and tropicals stocked but recently I have been visiting H2O aquatics for marines and even though they are a small shop they do have some rarer stuff in.
> 
> It would be good to see some more shops around the area. Really I would like a Maidenhead aquatics nearer as I have never been but swallows and H2O are providing me with what I need at the minute.


yeah, but there's nowhere around here for unusual freshwater tropicals. swallows stock very few- they used to be great for that kinda thing, as was the late & very lamented fishy friends. & H2O only really do marines- they only have one row of tropicals, & they're all bread & butter.


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

wilkinss77 said:


> yeah, but there's nowhere around here for unusual freshwater tropicals. swallows stock very few- they used to be great for that kinda thing, as was the late & very lamented fishy friends. & H2O only really do marines- they only have one row of tropicals, & they're all bread & butter.


I agree to be honest. Although I do not keep the rarer stuff I still look out for it. Wickford has a few bits but it is very much hit and miss and it's very much luck of the draw whether they have something or not. H2O is basically marines with the few tropicals. If they had a bigger shop I think they would probably stock more but they obviously cannot.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Bradley said:


> I agree to be honest. Although I do not keep the rarer stuff I still look out for it. Wickford has a few bits but it is very much hit and miss and it's very much luck of the draw whether they have something or not. H2O is basically marines with the few tropicals. If they had a bigger shop I think they would probably stock more but they obviously cannot.


yeah, we need at least one shop around here that's more like maidenhead, fishy friends or like swallows used to be before it went bread & butter.


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## Tappers (Jan 22, 2008)

As someone who's worked in the aquatic trade for nearly twenty-five years I'd say that availability of species has never been better in good shops. Asia in particular has yielded some amazing discoveries that have made quite an impact on the hobby but what has declined are geeky fishkeepers like myself it seems.

I used to have fifty tanks of mainly Neotropical cichlids and watched the same pattern over and over again. I'd sell some of my homebred fish to a shop, they'd sell pairs from my young and many of the people who bought them would return with fry. Now the local market is swamped with this species and people stop breeding them (that's when pairs get seen in shops as returns). Once the glut disappears there's no longer any breeders and they become rare once more and occasionally vanish completely. Years ago there were lots of people who had tanks for the fish they were enthusiastic about rather than just having a decorative aquarium - the 80's and 90's saw lots of people with big tanks keeping large catfish and cichlids with much larger average sizes of set-up than today.

Now tanks are smaller and nano aquaria that are home to bullsh#t aquascapes populated with shrimps and (often stunning) tiny fishes are on the increase. In a few years time there'll be species that we just don't see anymore because the hobby doesn't suit them. Between nano tanks and irresponsible shops continuing to sell species such as pangasius and redtails there's a definite trend. Good independent shops can stand their ground against competition and enrich the hobby but sadly small shops aren't always good and when times are hard economic natural selection takes effect.

It does seem that it's in better shape than the reptile hobby at the moment though, even the most bread & butter trop shop is more diverse than most reptile retailers. Can you imagine a world where fewer than ten fish species make up the bulk of livestock sales?


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Tappers said:


> As someone who's worked in the aquatic trade for nearly twenty-five years I'd say that availability of species has never been better in good shops. Asia in particular has yielded some amazing discoveries that have made quite an impact on the hobby but what has declined are geeky fishkeepers like myself it seems.
> 
> I used to have fifty tanks of mainly Neotropical cichlids and watched the same pattern over and over again. I'd sell some of my homebred fish to a shop, they'd sell pairs from my young and many of the people who bought them would return with fry. Now the local market is swamped with this species and people stop breeding them (that's when pairs get seen in shops as returns). Once the glut disappears there's no longer any breeders and they become rare once more and occasionally vanish completely. Years ago there were lots of people who had tanks for the fish they were enthusiastic about rather than just having a decorative aquarium - the 80's and 90's saw lots of people with big tanks keeping large catfish and cichlids with much larger average sizes of set-up than today.
> 
> ...


We see the hobby / industry through the same eyes. I agree with everything you've just written.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

i was at a wholesaler this morning, buying fish for the new shop i am going to work at.
they had killies in stock, also had some gold nugget plecos, and some violet bruno plecos, all looked quite good really. Didnt get any this time as we're trying to stock up the bread and butter stuff first ( unfortunately ).
also had splashing tetra on the list, but i didnt see any.
was a few tanks that had apistogramma labels on them, but i think we were too late and missed out on those.
it seems there is a good stock of semi-unusual fish, but most shops cater more for the majority of bread and butter customers

Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> i was at a wholesaler this morning, buying fish for the new shop i am going to work at.
> they had killies in stock, also had some gold nugget plecos, and some violet bruno plecos, all looked quite good really. Didnt get any this time as we're trying to stock up the bread and butter stuff first ( unfortunately ).
> also had splashing tetra on the list, but i didnt see any.
> was a few tanks that had apistogramma labels on them, but i think we were too late and missed out on those.
> ...


i just hope this new shop of yours is within easy public transport for me.


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## Spritehight (Nov 10, 2013)

This has happened here as well. We can not find the fish we have been looking for. Every time someone gets our Marbled Hatcets in, they basically kill them before I can rescue them.


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## Gazza1587 (Sep 29, 2013)

Least it appears that there are a few shops around the Essex area. May be over shortly to have a look.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Gazza1587 said:


> Least it appears that there are a few shops around the Essex area. May be over shortly to have a look.


yes, but as i've said, most of them don't sell anything out of the ordinary- they've all gone bread & butter.


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## Gazza1587 (Sep 29, 2013)

Cheers for the info. will expand my search.


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## Pole (Nov 7, 2013)

audience. the fish game is being taken over by the herp game in Europe, recently a local fish store closed down, and a reptile store( gotta admit, much higher quality/variety when compared to the old fish store) replaced it.


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm all for supporting the lfs's as much as i can, but went into mine recently & was asked for £19.00 for a tube of ordinary aquarium silicone. Needless to say i went home & got two delivered, two days later, for less than £7.00. Say's it all for me.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm not sure herps are taking over fish, at least not near me. Within say 10 miles of my house, I know of 5 LFS, possibly one more I never visited as it is in middle of nowhere. Of those, two do beardies/cresties too, and another does turtles. The single dedicated reptile store in the area I hear has closed (rarely visit myself) and I'd have to expand to say 40 mile radius to find two more dedicated reptile stores.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

just found another good shop- having been there today, i can recommend infinite aquatics in rainham, essex. they sell plenty of unusual fish as well as very good bread & butter types. they also stock a large supply of dry goods, including the entire range of hikari foods (most other shops only stock a few hikari foods). among the more unusual stuff:

10 different L no. plecs
hoplosternum cats
6'' black ghost knifefish (most shops that sell black ghosts only get the 3-4'' ones)
corydoras septentrionalis
c. 'venezuela black'
myleus schombergki
several species of rainbowfish
horabagrus cats (sun catfish).

prices aren't bad either. they also sell rift lake cichlids & marines.


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## neil1973 (Nov 17, 2008)

I think back in the 80s when i was seriously getting into fishkeeping you went to shops to find out about new species and equipment available either by talking to shop staff or other customers. Essentially shops acted as places where information was shared. The internet has obviously had a huge effect on this which has been positive for the hobby in many ways but not perhaps for the good shops who’s competitive advantage over pets at home type places was the knowledge they had. 



The other factor is that most shops (including those that have an interest in and carry a lot of unusual stuff) make most of their money from people who aren’t serious fish nerds but who just want a basic tank for their kids etc. I think a lot of this business is being picked up by the pets at home type chains and this squeezes the more specialist shops profits meaning they can’t afford to be as adventurous in their choice of stock.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

*Noahs Ark Aquatics, Canvey Island*

hi guys and girls

i posted on here quite a while ago about a shop that i was moving to,
its half of the old Noahs ark aquatics and exotics shop on Canvey Island.
the fish part was sold off and now both section are 2 different shops and business's.
the fish part is now Noahs Ark Aquatics and the reptile part is now Island Reptiles, both of us are on facebook.

as for the topic at hand, we have mostly bread and butter fish, but have had, and do have some more unusal bits in.

We recently got in some microsynodontis polli in for one of you guys,
and we also have had a few killies in, just recently sold a blue phantom pleco and a galaxias pleco.
we've had gold nuggets in at a very good size and price, queen arabesque plecos, have butterfly fishes in if you like that sort of thing.

we're going to a different supplier this week to hopefully pick up a few different bits specifically that our usual supplier hasnt had.

any queries regarding specific fish, just drop me a pm

Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> hi guys and girls
> 
> i posted on here quite a while ago about a shop that i was moving to,
> its half of the old Noahs ark aquatics and exotics shop on Canvey Island.
> ...


yeah, it was me who asked for the microsyno's- picked up 2 yesterday!:2thumb: they're actually m.batesi, often misidentified by importers as polli- the true m.polli are drab brown mottled fish with a long tail fin.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

I know it was you
Didn't wanted to say who,
Incase you didn't want people knowing your business.

Thanks for popping in, was good to finally meet you,
You normally come in when I'm not there.

Daz


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> yeah, it was me who asked for the microsyno's- picked up 2 yesterday!:2thumb: they're actually m.batesi, often misidentified by importers as polli- the true m.polli are drab brown mottled fish with a long tail fin.


 Good choice. As I've said on here before, Microsynodontis really should be far more popular than they actually are in the hobby.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mynki said:


> Good choice. As I've said on here before, Microsynodontis really should be far more popular than they actually are in the hobby.


this is the first time i've ever seen them for sale!:gasp: tbh, i expected them to be about £20+ each, being so rare in the hobby- but they were under £3 each!:2thumb: i may add 2 more.


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## dazdaraz (Feb 23, 2008)

hi guys

at work we will be placing an order with an 'usual fish' supplier
and i'm hoping to get in this week
corydoras habrosus
corydoras concolour
possibly some pygmaeus too

and maybe some a few more unusual bits depending on funds
i'll post pics possibly depending on what turns up


Daz


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

dazdaraz said:


> hi guys
> 
> at work we will be placing an order with an 'usual fish' supplier
> and i'm hoping to get in this week
> ...


:gasp: c.concolor! they are magnificent! i'll pop in & look when you get them.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> this is the first time i've ever seen them for sale!:gasp: tbh, i expected them to be about £20+ each, being so rare in the hobby- but they were under £3 each!:2thumb: i may add 2 more.


 They're often available a big wholesalers often has them on their stock sheets, I'm guessing this is where yours came from but few people keep them.


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## Snake Island Reptiles (Feb 6, 2014)

Im not intrested but any 1 seen that hardly any where sells turtles like musks and snappings turtles (ofc snapping turts are agressive) but i think there should be more of a market


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## zekee (Sep 14, 2011)

You are insane. Its good that they don't sell turtles. Wise up.


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## Snake Island Reptiles (Feb 6, 2014)

Of course some 1 from the turtle conservation comes alone Lol jokes 
Sorry i was half asleep when i wrote that but if you think about it they r becoming harder to find in fish shops and are becoming imposiable to aviod on ebay and pets4homes and bits


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## LolaBunny (Feb 23, 2012)

Snake Island Reptiles said:


> Of course some 1 from the turtle conservation comes alone Lol jokes
> Sorry i was half asleep when i wrote that but if you think about it they r becoming harder to find in fish shops and are becoming imposiable to aviod on ebay and pets4homes and bits


& That is exactly one of the reasons why they shouldnt be sold in pet shops at all. 

A rehoming center I know, has 6 turtles in right now, and, at their most buy point, had to make a makeshift 2nd pond at one point.

& On ebay? You should report them adverts.


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## dbrack (Aug 9, 2013)

Ive mostly been using maidenheadaquatics but recently found a smaller fish shop near me. Only been in once but if anyone lives in the area Kettering Aquatics seems like a great little shop. :2thumb: Also stocks a few 'unusual' varietys. planning on picking up a new type of tetra I've never seen before as soon as I've stopped treating the dreaded whitespot infestation I seem to have introduced with my latest batch of fish! :devil:


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## samnsteve (Aug 20, 2013)

I generally go to maidenhead aquatics but Ive heard of a store in Cardiff called Aquabatics so Ill be going there tommorow for a browse. Has anybody here been there?


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

In general I'd love to bash the big names and support the little guy but around my way (Dundee) I don't have much of a choice. There's two smaller independent shops and having walked around a few times I wouldn't want to give them any of my cash. Dirty and dingy tanks, lots with dead or dying fish. Lots mislabeled or not labeled, lots with algae. And possibly the cardinal sin in one of them, Red Tailed Cats on an offer if you buy two!!!

The Pets at Home on the other hand, while only having the usual fish, they all seemed healthy, were all labeled correctly and were in clean, bright tanks.


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## essoxlucius (Mar 11, 2014)

sadly i.live in the north east and there hasn't been a decent aquatic or reptile shop for years i used to work in the trade and pets at home etc make me shudder


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

essoxlucius said:


> sadly i.live in the north east and there hasn't been a decent aquatic or reptile shop for years i used to work in the trade and pets at home etc make me shudder


it's much like that round here- there are a few shops that would like to stock stuff that's different and do so when they can, but the suppliers rarely have anything much available.


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## dbrack (Aug 9, 2013)

Think its just a nationwide thing. first independently owned fish shop I've found.. I normally just go to maidenhead


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

I think we're quite lucky here - we have Wharf Aquatics in Pinxton, Derbyshire (nr. J28 of the M1) - we were very impressed when we went to visit! 

They have a great range and everything was clean etc too. A friend of mine has been keeping fish for ages and recommended them. They have a reptile room too.

Have just got my first tank - a dinky 60litre - it doesn't even have water in yet lol as am waiting for some stuff to be delivered. But when it's all cycled etc I shall be getting my fish from there. Can't wait! :2thumb:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Mollie100 said:


> I think we're quite lucky here - we have Wharf Aquatics in Pinxton, Derbyshire (nr. J28 of the M1) - we were very impressed when we went to visit!
> 
> They have a great range and everything was clean etc too. A friend of mine has been keeping fish for ages and recommended them. They have a reptile room too.
> 
> Have just got my first tank - a dinky 60litre - it doesn't even have water in yet lol as am waiting for some stuff to be delivered. But when it's all cycled etc I shall be getting my fish from there. Can't wait! :2thumb:


yeah, wharf have a great rep for catering for the oddball, catfish & cichlid specialist. fishy friends in basildon was the nearest thing to them down here until it closed down a few years back- swallow aquatics were similar too, until they came under new management 4 or 5 years ago, who decided to go the bread & butter route.

but- there is light at the end of the tunnel!
went to creation aquatics in wickford today, & they've got sexable-sized cichlids, sexable rainbows, & several species of catfish- i picked up a pair of 4'' firemouths (you rarely see them for sale that big). they've also got a tank full of ADULT upside down cats- the true synodontis nigriventris, usually only for sale at 1 1/2''. 

also checked out a NEW shop in wickford high street- fins aquatics, who've had another shop for years in south ockendon. the new branch has potential- the manager told me they intend to stock the same kinda stuff as the other branch- lots of dwarf cichlids, catfish & other unusual stuff. they've not got much yet- the shop is only 4 weeks old, & most of their tanks are still cycling.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> i too, have heard all this about them- about all the rare & unusual fish they stock- but for some reason they won't open any branches in this area. and they have been around for 20+ years, so it's not as if they haven't had the chance to get round to it yet.


update: maidenhead have at last, opened a local branch- maidenhead @ summerhill garden centre, billericay!:gasp: hope to check it out tomorrow.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> update: maidenhead have at last, opened a local branch- maidenhead @ summerhill garden centre, billericay!:gasp: hope to check it out tomorrow.


went there today- was impressed! bought a pair of t-bar cichlids (cryptocentrus sajica), they had blue flash firemouths (thorichtys aureum) too- they were stunning! passed on getting any though, as they were too young to accurately sex- i wanted a pair. considering they've only been open a month, & that not all theirs tanks are even stocked yet, they had more to offer by way of unusual/rare stuff than most other local shops.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

another one bites the dust- noah's ark on canvey island has closed down- just as they'd become one of my go-to places for killies & catfish!:bash:


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