# Little pygmy hedgehog



## coopere (Aug 6, 2008)

Hello,
I have just bred my first litter of APH who are now almost eight weeks old. There are three babies - a male who is now living on his own and two girls. I am a bit worried about one of the girls - the runt of the litter as she only weighs 102 g and is about the size of a hamster. Has anyone had a similar pygmy pygmy?! On the hedgehog forum I can only find one post with two replies which basically said it will catch up in the end - but the hedgehog they were talking about was twice as big as Teazel. She has no defects and is eating like a little piggy - just want to know if anyone has been in the same situation.
Thanks Emma


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I really would make a thread on the pygmy hog forum as there are loads of knowledgable people on there


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

wouldnt it be nice for someone on here to actually give an axtual reply rather than constantly sending people over to another forum... most of the people on that forum are on here anyway, so why not discuss it here to save people joining another forum!


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## slimeysnail (Jan 29, 2009)

coopere said:


> Hello,
> I have just bred my first litter of APH who are now almost eight weeks old. There are three babies - a male who is now living on his own and two girls. I am a bit worried about one of the girls - the runt of the litter as she only weighs 102 g and is about the size of a hamster. Has anyone had a similar pygmy pygmy?! On the hedgehog forum I can only find one post with two replies which basically said it will catch up in the end - but the hedgehog they were talking about was twice as big as Teazel. She has no defects and is eating like a little piggy - just want to know if anyone has been in the same situation.
> Thanks Emma


I currently have 14 hogs, and I have experienced exactly what you are describing. 

I have a litter just now, where the little male of 3, is half the size, but I have to say, I am not worried, because he is eating and drinking fine. Some people may say they will catch up in size.. but in my experience, the runts, generally do stay a little smaller when they reach adulthood.

I have a monster baby just now- he is 325g and only 6 weeks! Compare him to a 6 week old litter of 3 whom are 175g.

Your little girl does seem a fair bit smaller than what I would say is avergae for that age. Are you sure she is getting a fair share of the food.. sometimes bigger siblings can push out the little ones so they get bigger and the runts dont grow as much. 

Have you considered seperating her from her sister to see how she does on her own? Are you weighing her daily? How much is she putting on daily? How long have they been away from their Mum. What food are you feeding them?

Another experience I have had- I took on three rescue sister hogs. Peaches was extremely small, and extremely active. She seemed to eat well, but never put on any weight. She has remained a tiny hedgehog.. compared to her sister Pumpkin who is easily 2-3 times bigger. 

I suppose there are many reasons.. she is just the runt and will remain small, she has not gone through her growth spurt yet that all babies seem to do, she is not getting enough food as other is pushing her away, she feels threatened by other sister in with her so is stressing her out, too much excercise- do they have a wheel yet, weaned too early from mum.. she could have spent extra time with her mum as you knew she was smaller.

I am sure some other people will pop along and add to what I have said.


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## coopere (Aug 6, 2008)

Hi thanks for the replies. She and her sister are still with mum, I just removed the boy at six weeks to prevent inbreeding. They started on solids at about 4weeks and I weigh her everyday. On average she puts on 2g a day. I give her extra time sat on the foodbowl alone! She hasn't got a wheel yet as I was worried she's so small. Otherwise she's perfect! I am considering splitting her up now from mum and sister to feed her up. Any ideas of good food to beef her up? At the moment she has tesco premium catfood and mealies


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

ambyglam said:


> wouldnt it be nice for someone on here to actually give an axtual reply rather than constantly sending people over to another forum... most of the people on that forum are on here anyway, so why not discuss it here to save people joining another forum!


 
Do grow up
I have only had one litter and rather than leave the op with no reply I suggested a knowledgable site for them to go on rather than them sat waiting for an answer. Ive only had one litter so wasnt going to give advice about something I have no experiance of.
Maybe you should do the same


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Maybe remove the bigger baby from mum and leave runty on mum for longer, rather than the other way around?


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

I don't have much experience but I would've thought that even though she is only putting on 2g a day, it's a good sign that she is actually putting on weight and not losing it


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Do grow up
> I have only had one litter and rather than leave the op with no reply I suggested a knowledgable site for them to go on rather than them sat waiting for an answer. Ive only had one litter so wasnt going to give advice about something I have no experiance of.
> Maybe you should do the same


do go back to prodding rottys with a hoover*

i hope i got the right person :<


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Do grow up
> I have only had one litter and rather than leave the op with no reply I suggested a knowledgable site for them to go on rather than them sat waiting for an answer. Ive only had one litter so wasnt going to give advice about something I have no experiance of.
> Maybe you should do the same


wow do grown adults actually say 'do grow up' as an insult, or are you just not very bright...lol


I actually do have an aph but i think that its a shame that every person who ever posts about them just gets referred to that site rather then anyone discussing it on here.

which for a change some people have done!

well done slimeysnail!!!


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

tbh i agree with amby, instead of pushing people away we need to invite people in, and if need quote other sites information on here and link to them. not just say "go here bye"


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

There's nothing wrong with pointing somebody in the direction of a more informative site, I don't know what everyone is moaning about! It's all to help the animal and its owner at the end of the day...


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

what were saying is, why not quote information and link to the site rather than send people away who might never come back? its like:

a women walks into a shop (boo 'r' us) and asks for the new buzz light year figure. the clerk says sorry sheila the light year figures are out back and tbh im a lazy shh and cba getting you one so why not try nextdoor (moo 'r' us), im sure theyll have some, thus loosing customers/money ect.

its the same princible here, loosing new members, advertising clicks, people to buy our impusle bought pets ect ect

x


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

bampoisongirl said:


> There's nothing wrong with pointing somebody in the direction of a more informative site, I don't know what everyone is moaning about! It's all to help the animal and its owner at the end of the day...


that is not the point im making, the point is that hardly anyone ever makes any effort what so ever on this site to discuss APH, they just get redirected to that site and think thats it dealt with.

Heres a better way...

Q: my APH has lost a lot of quills and is scratching a lot do you have any ideas?

A: it looks to me like your hog may have mites, this can be treated several ways blah blah blah... ''lots of info'... also you may like to check out 'hog forum etc' as theres people on htere who may have other ideas.

this would be way more helpful, otherwise RFUK may as well just stop people posting on the forum and just put up a whole page of links to specialist forums where people can discuss only the one type of animal.

as someone who has run forums in the past there is nothing more infuriating than people only suggesting other sites for info ans clearly the more people discuss topics on this forum the busier it gets and as people commonly have various species isnt it easier to get 'most' of your info on one forum rather than having to look at 4 or 5?


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

ambyglam said:


> that is not the point im making, the point is that hardly anyone ever makes any effort what so ever on this site to discuss APH, they just get redirected to that site and think thats it dealt with.
> 
> Heres a better way...



well said mate, could not of put it better my self. :no1:


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

benjo said:


> what were saying is, why not quote information and link to the site rather than send people away who might never come back? its like:
> 
> a women walks into a shop (boo 'r' us) and asks for the new buzz light year figure. the clerk says sorry sheila the light year figures are out back and tbh im a lazy shh and cba getting you one so why not try nextdoor (moo 'r' us), im sure theyll have some, thus loosing customers/money ect.
> 
> ...


I disagree to be honest, we're not talking about toys, we're talking about an animal (i know it was a hypothetical scenario, but its completely different). As long as they get the right information from the best source what's the problem?

But yes it might be more helpful to quote or direct to a specific spot rather than just the website



ambyglam said:


> that is not the point im making, the point is that hardly anyone ever makes any effort what so ever on this site to discuss APH, they just get redirected to that site and think thats it dealt with.
> 
> Heres a better way...
> 
> ...


Well why didn't you say that in the first place? There just seems to be a lot of moaning for the sake of moaning rather than saying things in a polite way, like you just have in your reply to me  I get where you are coming from though


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

benjo said:


> do go back to prodding rottys with a hoover*
> 
> i hope i got the right person :<


 
Ha ha I think you have mixed me up with Marina:whistling2:





ambyglam said:


> wow do grown adults actually say 'do grow up' as an insult, or are you just not very bright...lol
> 
> 
> I actually do have an aph but i think that its a shame that every person who ever posts about them just gets referred to that site rather then anyone discussing it on here.
> ...


Listen mate I am old enough to be your mother but if my kids had an attitude like yours I would be ashamed call them my family.
Now run along little one, you really must have some homework to do


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

bampoisongirl said:


> Well why didn't you say that in the first place? There just seems to be a lot of moaning for the sake of moaning rather than saying things in a polite way, like you just have in your reply to me  I get where you are coming from though


this is what i did say in the first place...



ambyglam said:


> wouldnt it be nice for someone on here to actually give an axtual reply rather than constantly sending people over to another forum... most of the people on that forum are on here anyway, so why not discuss it here to save people joining another forum!


which was not nippy or moany it was just a factual statement...

but then when you get replies like this from people who should know better



Shell195 said:


> Do grow up
> I have only had one litter and rather than leave the op with no reply I suggested a knowledgable site for them to go on rather than them sat waiting for an answer. Ive only had one litter so wasnt going to give advice about something I have no experiance of.
> Maybe you should do the same


it does make you a bit p'd off... but as my last post explained... this is how it SHOULD work but as benjo said... people are too lazy and adding a link to another site is easier then typing the info out yourself

xx


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Listen mate I am old enough to be your mother but if my kids had an attitude like yours I would be ashamed call them my family.
> Now run along little one, you really must have some homework to do


i think my mother is proud enough of me, I own 3 successful businesses and its my attitude of not being lazy and just typing links to other sites instead of doing the work myself that has gotten me there!


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Ha ha I think you have mixed me up with Marina:whistling2:


im so freaking glad i put the tiny disclaimer type thing in /phew  

(sorry)


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

ambyglam said:


> i think my mother is proud enough of me, I own 3 successful businesses and its my attitude of not being lazy and just typing links to other sites instead of doing the work myself that has gotten me there!


 

*Yawn*


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

benjo said:


> im so freaking glad i put the tiny disclaimer type thing in /phew
> 
> (sorry)


 

:lol2: No problem, it made me giggle


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> *Yawn*


so anyway now that she has that interesting load of info out of her system...

does anyone have any more infor for the good people on this site to say about the baby hog?


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

considering she is, as you say, the runt of the litter you could do with splitting them up and giving her some more meal worms ect? i dont really know i had a adult hog my self but never had a runt/litter before.

when i had a runt ferret i gave her ( and the none runt ) some chicken livers and it seemd to work. not sure what you can give a young hog but i would personally split them up or just remove the runt into a smaller setup so you can moniter her for a while


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## puffin (Feb 20, 2009)

I have had 2 APHs that were tiny & took months to grow to normal size, your runt might catch up, only time will tell, mine both spurted at 6 months. However one of them has something odd about her that I cant put my finger on & the other has a small face so I think there is always some evidence left that they didnt grow in the first place

To Shell - I am a member of Pygmy Hogs UK & would not normally have found this post if I hadnt been directed to you. I dont think there is anything wrong in directing people to a specialist forum the more info the better, also I have seen many times on Pygmy hogs it being suggested that people post / search on here when they have questions about reps so whats the difference


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

puffin said:


> I have had 2 APHs that were tiny & took months to grow to normal size, your runt might catch up, only time will tell, mine both spurted at 6 months. However one of them has something odd about her that I cant put my finger on & the other has a small face so I think there is always some evidence left that they didnt grow in the first place
> 
> *To Shell - I am a member of Pygmy Hogs UK & would not normally have found this post if I hadnt been directed to you. I dont think there is anything wrong in directing people to a specialist forum the more info the better, also I have seen many times on Pygmy hogs it being suggested that people post / search on here when they have questions about reps so whats the difference*


 

"If Mohammed won't come to the mountain, the mountain must come to Mohammed":whistling2:

If I had questions about any specific animal I would use a specialist forum not a general one that is really geared to reptiles


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

because perhaps the people who are on here as well (such as myself) as there cant be bothered with dealing with a lot of argumentative boneheads and deal with a load of crap like this post has on it

also the OP has posted they have looked on the site so perhaps they are a member on there? so easy enough to post up and ask if thats the case

I agree with shell - a lot of us dont bother with RFUK any more when info is needed esp when theres access to an experienced breeder who's advice I would trust hence why I would use the pygmy hog forum to ask.

I'm sure the baby will catch up though - there was a thread somewhere on the pygmy forum about topping small babies up but I dont know all the info about it


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

ambyglam said:


> wouldnt it be nice for someone on here to actually give an axtual reply rather than constantly sending people over to another forum... most of the people on that forum are on here anyway, so why not discuss it here to save people joining another forum!


People like you are the reason i dont hang around RFUk and tend to direct people in the direction of more friendly forums, where you are guaranteed to get a friendly, educated response rather than someone specifically looking to cause a debate or argument on a thread. 

Even on those forums, if i cant answer a question and have seen a thread on another forum i will direct them there (directed someone here yesterday, actually to a specific reptile thread? Maybe i should regret that, seeing this.) Are there actually any threads on this site where some Jerk hasnt started some form of "debate" to get on one's T**s?

Honestly! Some people have nothing better to do than critisise. :whistling2:


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

Jamiioo said:


> People like you are the reason i dont hang around RFUk and tend to direct people in the direction of more friendly forums, where you are guaranteed to get a friendly, educated response rather than someone specifically looking to cause a debate or argument on a thread.



my point was valid.... its pathetic for there to be a section on here for exotic animals and for it to not be used.

if you dont like people who support this forum and try to make use of it why bother coming on here and being negative yourself?


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## VW_Rick (Nov 8, 2009)

coopere said:


> Hello,
> I have just bred my first litter of APH who are now almost eight weeks old. There are three babies - a male who is now living on his own and two girls. I am a bit worried about one of the girls - the runt of the litter as she only weighs 102 g and is about the size of a hamster. Has anyone had a similar pygmy pygmy?! On the hedgehog forum I can only find one post with two replies which basically said it will catch up in the end - but the hedgehog they were talking about was twice as big as Teazel. She has no defects and is eating like a little piggy - just want to know if anyone has been in the same situation.
> Thanks Emma


Nope, my girlfriends APH was the runt & has always eaten/drank/pooped like a pig and she is a teeny weeny adult now and healthy as anything :2thumb:. & even cuter than her bigger counterparts .


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

aww pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease post a pic, i love small animals... I think its because im so big i find the world of miniature so fascinating...which reminds me I must get a pic of my hog up soon xx


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## angeldog (Mar 12, 2006)

to the OP
firstly the advice was good to go to pygmyhogs and make a post, most knowledgable breeders only find posts like this when other peopl say theres been so and so posted on rfuk can you go check it out. most wont come and look on here otherwise as frankly you just get posts contaminated with arguments and its really not worth it.

ok with your hoglet my advice would be to seperate all the babies from mum, i wouldnt leave them with her past 8 weeks anyway and its unlikely they are getting milk from her at this point.
you will probably find that living on her own where she isnt having to fight for the food bowl will help.
she will most likely always be a smaller hog but i wouldnt worry unless she isnt eating or drinking.
ive had them at this weight before and they go on to be normal sized healthy hogs.
i wouldnt try feeding up with mealworms or fatty foods either, just keep to the normal cat biscuits you are feeding, which should be a fat content of no more than 10% and protein of over 30%, most people are using a mix of biscuits at the minute to get a good balance.
if youd like advice on feeding you can pm me on pygmyhogs as i dont have timeto come on here as much and i might miss your pm. my name over there is hedgebottom.

on another note
if someone posted up asking about thier hog scratching and losing quills, my first reply would not be your hog looks like it has mites, it would be how old is it cos more than likely its quilling.


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## Nicky1983 (Oct 25, 2010)

I think the advice was good, I ve seen lots of threads where people have not bothered to answer so at least the op was directed to somewhere where they would get good advice after shell told them she did not have experience to answer. It's better to be redirected to a specialised forum than to be left unanswered.


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## coopere (Aug 6, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer the question I actually asked - yes I am a member on pygmy hogs but hardly ever go on there where as I come on here for a read most days - so it was more convenient for me as I know there are hedgehog people on here too, and remembered reading about a litter with a giant hoglet around the same age as mine! (thanks to the earlier poster who did comment) The babies are eight weeks on wednesday so I will be separating the girls from mum then.
Thanks again -I think we can close this thread now mods!!!


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

ambyglam said:


> my point was valid.... its pathetic for there to be a section on here for exotic animals and for it to not be used.
> 
> if you dont like people who support this forum and try to make use of it why bother coming on here and being negative yourself?


I dont exactly call "critism" supporting a forum. All you apparently do from what i have read is critisise critisise critisise. Your point may be valid but is there any need to offend people? More so what is wrong with reccomending a forum more specialised in relation to the question??

I've seen a few posts on here enquiring about APH where there has only been 1 or 2 replies - if that, so i have given my opinion and reccomended PHUK so they get more feedback. 

If they dont get the answer here, at least they have to option to go there and have a second opinion/oppertunity to get the question answered elsewhere...problem solved, no?

I think the more forums you join the more knowledge you gain through reading different peoples experiences. Personally if i was to have created a forum i would be more than happy for people to reccomend other (more specialised) forums if the situation required, especially if it was the welfare of an animal in question...


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## VW_Rick (Nov 8, 2009)

ambyglam said:


> aww pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease post a pic, i love small animals... I think its because im so big i find the world of miniature so fascinating...which reminds me I must get a pic of my hog up soon xx











: victory:


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

soooooooper cute!


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## pgag_1_york (Mar 12, 2008)

seeing as everyone is probably readin this im gonna be cheeky and plug the hedgehog rescue charity calendar : victory:










Price per calender is £7.99 each or £14.99 for 2

They are A4, bound with a hook and printed on good quality paper

email : [email protected] for more info or to order

more full size samples are posted here: Rescue Calendars *For Sale* - but you do need to register to view the classifieds section

We only have around 12 copies left

:2thumb:


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## Avyron (Jun 29, 2010)

cheeky


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