# rear fanged that are not on DWA



## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

what snakes are rear fanged but are not on DWA?
all comments welcome
looking forward to hear from your experience too :notworthy:


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

cat eye snakes, mangroves, fwc, green vine snakes


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## xChudy (Sep 28, 2009)

chewy fyu said:


> cat eye snakes, mangroves, fwc, green vine snakes


also hognose's


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## Zimey (Sep 28, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> what snakes are rear fanged but are not on DWA?
> all comments welcome
> looking forward to hear from your experience too :notworthy:


Arent you already searching for a Mangrove mate?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

There are very few rear fanged snakes which ARE DWA. These are:

​All species of the genera​_Malpolon _and _Thelotornis. _​_
_The species​_Dispholidus typus, Rhabdophis subminiatus, Rhabdophis tigrinus, Elapomorphus lemniscatus, Philodryas olfersii, 
Tachymenis peruviana _and _Xenodon severus. _​Certain rear-fanged venomous snakes, Montpellier snakes and African vine snakes (otherwise known as African twig or bird snakes). 
The boomslang, the red-necked keelback, the yamakagashi (otherwise known as the Japanese tiger-snake), the Argentine black-headed snake, the South American green racer, the Peruvian racer and the Amazon false viper.​​

Any other rear fanged species is not DWA. Commonly available species are western hognoses and FWC's. Less commonly seen, but still occasionally available, are barons racer (Philodryas baroni), Malagasy hognoses (Leioheterodon species), and various Boiga species, those seen most often are Mangroves (dendrophila and gemmicincta subspecies), greens (B. cyanea), B. drapezeii and B. cynodon. Most of the Boiga are WC, as are the Malagasy hognoses. 
The chances of finding others are pretty remote as they are rarely kept, and wen available are generally WC.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Unless youve kept non venomous wc snakes before then i wouldnt even bother thinking about getting boigas or such...


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Another point to consider is that most of the rear fanged species have some very particular, and hard to cater for, diets. Many are specialist lizard feeders and impossible to move onto rodents.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

thanks for all your comments
i think mangroves are bit too aggresive for me
so maybe swap a FWC for my 2yr male ackie?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

geckoloverr said:


> thanks for all your comments
> i think mangroves are bit too aggresive for me
> so maybe swap a FWC for my 2yr male ackie?


you say mangroves are too aggresive so you are going to have a FWC instead:whistling2:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Why do you want a rear fanged snake?
From your posts, the only snake you have is a royal python. I don't know if you have kept anything else before, but if your only experience is a royal then rear fanged snakes are definately a no at the moment I'm afraid.
They are venomous snakes for a start. Most are aggressive.
A FWC is not a small snake, nor is it noted for being calm. Most are pyschotic, especially when food is around. Mine started off very calm and was a very gentle feeder, never striking, and having to have her food left for a while in her viv. She shed recently and now goes beserk when food is offered, striking out and really chewing on it - imagine if that was your hand?
They can get to 6 feet, sometimes more, they are fast, and powerful.
For your own sake, I would suggest gaining some more experience with snakes a little more lively than a royal before you think about an FWC.


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## onebat (Oct 25, 2009)

yep i agree with leecb0, i have a falsie myself not the tamest of snakes in the slightest. if you havent had much experience mate dont bother tbh.
falsies are quite a nice and unusual species but for some one that hasnt had much experience then its defo a no go......!!!!! 
Maybe you have heard stories where people are saying that they are a tame snake with good handling..... but believe you me mate there not. falsies are very unreliable... just take it in to consideration please because they do give an almighty bite and have a rather powerful jaw.

THIS IS NOT ME HAVING AGO EITHER. JUST PUTTING MY OPINION ACROSS

ONEBAT


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

watch this vid and i think you will change your mind :lol2:
also i have seen the photos of his hand a few hours after the bite and it has swollen up a fair bit

i have had a couple of good wacks from falsies over the years, and the one just recently is still mildly afeecting me now, nothing bad but its there

and if im honest and from my experience i would say a mangrove is easyer to handle, its just feeding they are a pain for



YouTube - Nigel Marven finds a false water cobra


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

a friend down the road has a few rear fanged snakes inc FWC
i have seen it in person, if treated correctly can be just as calm as any other snake


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> a friend down the road has a few rear fanged snakes inc FWC
> i have seen it in person, if treated correctly can be just as calm as any other snake


I'm afraid this shows your inexperience - the difficulty with an FWC is they can be calm one minute, mental the next. Seeing someone experienced handle one is totally different to you doing it. The reason it seems calm is due to experienced handling. You have one royal. To safely handle an Fwc, especially as an adult, needs a hook, which you need to know how to use. An adult snake, 6' plus, heavy build, powerful, fast and aggressive, possessing a venom which drop for drop is considered as toxic as that of a timber rattlesnake is not in any circumstances suitable for someone who has only held a royal. 
Clearly it is down to you if you get one, I only hope you listen to experienced keepers and wait until you have morer experience.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

i do respect anyone who has experience with DWA animals of course
i have learned to handle some rear fanged snakes with hooks from him, i wouldnt be looking to get one if i was confident
i dont mean to sound aggressive : victory:


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

I agree with Ian 14, FWC's are not really a good idea for a second snake. Get one if you will but make sure you post bite pics:whistling2:
If you had a rat snake and it seemed docil and turned on you a amall bite and no harm done, a FWC decides to turn its whole different ball game, you will have a mad rush on your hands to get it off before its chewed enough venom into you to cause damage, granted its unlikely to kill you but you will be in a lot of pain, I think it was a bloke on here that spent a while in hospital after a bite. FWC venom is fairly potent acording to alot of scources they only lack the abilitly to deliver it efficiently but that does not mean thy should be taken lightly. Why not try your hand at a more flighty rat snake species and get your self a hook to get some practice in before getting rear fang, or hognoses are fairly harm less as they mainly bluff.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

if worst comes to worst i can always sell
if i get uncomfortable with it : victory:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> if worst comes to worst i can always sell
> if i get uncomfortable with it : victory:


Sorry but that attitude is totally wrong and shows that you are not experienced, or I would respectfully say, mature enough, to own an fwc. You can't go and buy a snake with the intention of off-loading it when you realise you can't cope with it. In one post you say you have learnt to use a hook and arer confident, then you come out with your last post!
This is not a species to take a chance on. If you hae your heart set on an fwc, start getting more experience with other species first (not just going to someone else and holding them). 
I don't wish to be rude but this is coming across as if you want a rear fanged snake just for the sake of having a venomous animal. You don't have the experience yet for an fwc. Normally, I don't agree with the concept of a "beginner" snake, but when it comes to venomous species, including rear fanged snakes, it is different. You need to know how to read a snake and how to handle them safely.
The late John Foden, a highly respected British herpetologist, was left with a permanently disfigured arm after a bite from a falsie, and that was with a lot more experience than keeping a royal.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

i am confident but if worst does come then i can sell it
i have learned like a padiwan, everyone starts somewhere


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## Zimey (Sep 28, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> i am confident but if worst does come then i can sell it
> i have learned like a padiwan, everyone starts somewhere


All I can say is if you do go for one... I wish you good luck (as I think that you might need it)


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## Darlo_Gal (Sep 24, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> i am confident but if worst does come then i can sell it
> i have learned like a padiwan, everyone starts somewhere


No one has disagreed that you have to start somewhere they are saying a FWC is not a good starting place, start small. I always said I'd love a falsie and decided to work my way up, I started with a Heterodon nasicus (hoggie), nice and small but can still cause damage (there was thread on a while ago) After 2years I'm just on a Madagascarophis meridionalis and to be honest I'm happy with the smaller rear fanged, there are loads of small beautiful rare snakes out there and they hold my interest much more now.
The attitude of buy to sell is wrong and imo doesn't sound like your putting the snake first.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

i was just wanting some info on them
if you lot think i should start of with hoogies then i best go with your exp


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

geckoloverr said:


> i am confident but if worst does come then i can sell it
> i have learned like a padiwan, *everyone starts somewhere*


Correct, from the bottom, not half way up:whistling2:


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

ok i understand


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## paraman (Oct 27, 2007)

geckoloverr said:


> thanks for all your comments
> i think mangroves are bit too aggresive for me
> so maybe swap a FWC for my 2yr male ackie?


 
If you think mangroves are too aggressive for you then maybe you need to rethink your choices again. Mangroves telegraph their intentions and compared to a fwc are really quite slow. Fwc's explode in to action especially if there is a hint of food around. Equally its not exactly a barrel of laughs to treat these snakes for say example, mites or retained eye caps. I've kept rear fanged snakes for years but I'm still very aware of what they can do and am very carefull when handling them.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

you have to be careful because the capabilities they capable of
i understand :2thumb:


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## Roewammi (Mar 23, 2008)

I dont have much experience at all compared to many on here but just thought id share my experience. i always wanted an argentine longnose aka barons racer but started off with asian rats snakes such as my cave racer and jap rat snake. they were really good practice and a different kettle of fish than anything ive kept before. i kept those for 2 years before getting my longnose and now feel confident enough with my longnose.


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

I’m feeling a bad case of *Déjà vu **coming on....*


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

PDR said:


> I’m feeling a bad case of *Déjà vu **coming on....*


There are always more waiting to pick up the baton and run.....:whistling2:


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

geckoloverr said:


> i am confident but if worst does come then i can sell it
> i have learned like a padiwan, everyone starts somewhere


Thats not the right attitude though...ikeep alot of rear fangs...you no whats fun about keeping most of them?

nothing.
Having snakes that refuse to feed or come off the plane looking half dead are anything but fun.

There are a few which husbandry are easier for such as hoggies and FWC....but most are filled with heart break and stress....but i wierdly enough enjoy this feeling...I like taking on a vine snake and getting it to thrive...yes everyone starts somewhere....its a learning curve...you learn from your mistakes...you dont shift on those mistakes because your bored of it.

If you like a snake for the correct reasons then you shouldnt need to sell it


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't understand the OP's reason for wanting rear-fanged. I get the impression its because they are venemous, and thats the only reason.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

how can you say that, i love reptiles its not just because they are venomous that would be a foolish reason for wanting them.
thanks for the polite and understanding replys


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

geckoloverr said:


> how can you say that, i love reptiles its not just because they are venomous that would be a foolish reason for wanting them.
> thanks for the polite and understanding replys


Well that's fair enough. But saying you can just sell a snake if you can't deal with it.. That is the completely wrong attitude to have.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

the trouble with the statement of selling it is if you get scared of it it may take months to sell in this market at the moment and the snake needs care in these mopnths how will you provide it, All everyone has spoken is the truth you just don't want to hear it.


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## geckoloverr (Jul 30, 2009)

i no what the people are saying i have understood 
everyone's going on


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Boiga are wicked if they feed but it's never fun when you have a non-feeder. 

If you don't have a seperate quiet room I found it will be especially hard, once I moved them to a seperate room I found the feeding to be much better, but from what you said you I gathered you had taming in mind which will most likely kill them in the end due to stress leading to non-feeding blah blah...

I jumped from a corn & royal to Boiga against a lot of advise & it turned out ok but it took a bit of research & effort to get it feeding regularly. But they could just never feed & then it would bad times for you & the snake.

I have never kept them but from what I have seen & experienced finding them in the wild out here there are plenty of rat snakes that are really pretty & keep you on your toes.


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## Agkistrodon (Dec 12, 2008)

> Boiga are wicked if they feed but it's never fun when you have a non-feeder.
> 
> If you don't have a seperate quiet room I found it will be especially hard, once I moved them to a seperate room I found the feeding to be much better, but from what you said you I gathered you had taming in mind which will most likely kill them in the end due to stress leading to non-feeding blah blah...


Amen to this. Mine never really ate on it's own, it was assist every time with a reasonable amount of risk (he was an aggy little bastard) and it's really disheartening when you've got something that will just flat out refuse to eat. The seperate quiet room thing I've heard recommended before, I had success basically covering his viv with a black cloth when I wasn't feeding or doing cage maintenance, but that doesn't lead to a particularly rewarding animal if it stresses the hell out every time it can be seen from the outside.

I'd certainly advise against them for an inexperienced keeper. I don't claim to be any kind of expert on boiga, but I barely even exposed mine to the outside world that seemed to stress it so much, let alone tamed it or anything, and it still starved itself to death.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Agkistrodon said:


> Amen to this. Mine never really ate on it's own, it was assist every time with a reasonable amount of risk (he was an aggy little bastard) and it's really disheartening when you've got something that will just flat out refuse to eat. The seperate quiet room thing I've heard recommended before, I had success basically covering his viv with a black cloth when I wasn't feeding or doing cage maintenance, but that doesn't lead to a particularly rewarding animal if it stresses the hell out every time it can be seen from the outside.
> 
> I'd certainly advise against them for an inexperienced keeper. I don't claim to be any kind of expert on boiga, but I barely even exposed mine to the outside world that seemed to stress it so much, let alone tamed it or anything, and it still starved itself to death.


Completely agree...however i love Boiga. If you can get there enclosure and husbandry bang on then you wont ever have them not feeding for you.

i keep 9 adults and all feed. even in slough


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

wildlifewarrior said:


> Completely agree...however i love Boiga. If you can get there enclosure and husbandry bang on then you wont ever have them not feeding for you.
> 
> i keep 9 adults and all feed. even in slough
> 
> image



I never knew you kept a large collection of rear fanged snakes, boiga are one of the few snakes that would/do convert me from a lizard person to a snake one. My only experience with rear fanged ar a fiesty pair of hognoses.

When i come for the wildlife pics i would love to get some of the boiga's.


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## Jack W (Feb 9, 2009)

On the youtube video of Nigel Marvin. I saw the original programme which showed that clip, and in it he never said 'the bite is painful, it must be slightly venomous'. If you listen really carefully it is obvious that this statement has been added afterwards in an editing studio, to offset what he originally said about it not being venomous. Nigel Marvin is a complete joker, he obviously knew nothing about FWCs and still chased it down and picked it up, and let it bite him.

And to the OP, FWCs really are nutters when they want to be. Mine has always been really calm, but would hood up when I first picked him up. Now he has stopped hooding, but just goes for me. No reason for his behaviour change, his enclosure is the same. He is okay when I get him out, but I have had a few very close shaves with him recently. I was actually bitten by him a few months ago, and although he didn't hang on or chew (thus there was no envenomation), it really hurt. He is only 4 ft long at the moment (a CB08) but it hurt worse than bites I have taken off boas that were 6ft.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Geckolover cant reply on private message so im afraid ill have to do it here 
firstly i wouldnt swap my falsie i have for sale for an ackie. but more importantly i would not sell it to you due to some of the posts you have done on this thread, you are in noway ready for a fwc the one i have is 18inch long will fall off the hook is bonkers and WILL bite you. and i know if you were to buy it it will be back on here for sale within a couple of days


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

wildlifewarrior said:


> Completely agree...however i love Boiga. If you can get there enclosure and husbandry bang on then you wont ever have them not feeding for you.
> 
> i keep 9 adults and all feed.* even in Slough
> *
> image


Why are you picking on Slough........:Na_Na_Na_Na:



leecb0 said:


> you are in noway ready for a fwc the one i have is 18inch long *will fall off the hook* is bonkers and WILL bite you.


I wish people would try hook working a snake to see how bloody difficult it is..... I recently tried to hook a Rat snake for Rain....... Eventually it seemed quicker and easier to ditch the hook and take a couple of bites.... Much less stressful for the animal..... 
Hooks only look easy.......:whip:


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Spikebrit said:


> I never knew you kept a large collection of rear fanged snakes, boiga are one of the few snakes that would/do convert me from a lizard person to a snake one. My only experience with rear fanged ar a fiesty pair of hognoses.
> 
> When i come for the wildlife pics i would love to get some of the boiga's.


i keep alot more rear fangs than just boiga:whistling2:

your you can mate: victory:



SW-morelia said:


> Why are you picking on Slough........:Na_Na_Na_Na:


i saw that one coming


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Why are you picking on Slough........:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> 
> I wish people would try hook working a snake to see how bloody difficult it is..... I recently tried to hook a Rat snake for Rain....... Eventually it seemed quicker and easier to ditch the hook and take a couple of bites.... Much less stressful for the animal.....
> Hooks only look easy.......:whip:


I make using a hook look really easy........:2thumb:
But then I have been usings hook all day, every for many years!


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

PDR said:


> I make using a hook look really easy........:2thumb:
> But then I have been usings hook all day, every for many years!


So you could say the hook is a natural exstention of your own hand


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

PDR said:


> I make using a hook look really easy........:2thumb:
> But then I have been usings* hook all day*, every for many years!


bet that greats on the missues after awhile


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

PDR said:


> I make using a hook look really easy........:2thumb:
> But then I have been usings hook all day, every for many years!


It's an art that isn't picked up overnight....
And something that should be mastered before you need to know how to do it... IMO


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## Agkistrodon (Dec 12, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> It's an art that isn't picked up overnight....
> And something that should be mastered before you need to know how to do it... IMO


Agreed. I personally feel more comfortable and in control hooking most stuff now than bare-handing non-venomous, lol. It gets to a point, IMO where you don't even really think about where the hook is going and where it's supposed to be - it just kinda naturally goes there like it would if it was just your hand. Although I could be alone in my freaky hook body part Alien Hand Syndrome ideas.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

wildlifewarrior said:


> i keep alot more rear fangs than just boiga:whistling2:
> 
> your you can mate: victory:
> 
> ...



cheers, i'll be looking forward to it. I was tempted to try a few unusal rear fanged stuff on the last import i was involved in but thought better of it, my snake skills arent that good, yet!


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