# No offence meant at all here, but,,,



## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

I personally prefer to see a nice display environment for exotics than to see lots of opaque rubs and tubes, racked up on shelves with stickers on. Its not a criticism of anyones ability to care for the animals. I just like to enjoy a "slice of life", or as near to it. 
Those who keep lots of species in rubs can teach us who only keep a few a lot through their experience of husbandry.
I reiterate, i personally like to see something that mimics a snapshot of its home.
And I'm not trying to be controversial.
There, discuss. :whistling2:


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## GazEmm (Jul 11, 2006)

I agree with you, but i think when you keep them you need to make a choice...either keep a few and have some really nice setups or keep many and house them in cheaper tubs that dont usually look as 'pretty'.

I dont plan on getting many and hopefully will have some nice setups for mine when they are all adults...i dont want to have to buy tidy setups yet, as they will just out grow them. I'll stick to housing them in DIY tubs whilst they grow.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

The same can be said for snakes and lizards and other species really, people keep them in big racks of plastic tubs, people keep them in extremely natural looking large vivariums...... 

Personally i'm a snake person more than an invert person, and although I have a shop that stocks plenty of inverts, at home I have only ever had one "pet" invert, which was a chile rose, who came to me at age 16 and died at age 22. She was a display, she was kept in a large fish tank, far larger than she needed, with live plants and full lighting to keep them alive, it was basically like a small jungle.

It was a nice display, a good talking point for visitors, and much akin to having a fish tank in the room really, I found it quite relaxing to sit next to in an evening and watch.

But in practicality, if you have more than one - how many display tanks can you really have in a house before it becomes wasted space and clutter? Five? Ten? I know people on here who have 50+ inverts. Can you have 50 natural display tanks? Not if you want somewhere to sleep! :whistling2:

I think it comes down to personal preference and why you are keeping your animals the way you do. I do not personally feel that the quality of life was that much enhanced by my chile rose who lived in a 4 ft fish tank, considering 99% of her years with me she spent sitting in one corner, and only really was active when looking for food, which she was probably annoyed about not finding so easily because the tank was so big. I don't feel that the quality of life is poor for those inverts I keep in plastic tubs in a rack in my shop.

So if you assume that high quality of life can be assured in either a plastic tub, or a display tank, it comes down to purely what you want in your house and what you want to do with your space... or how much space you really have to spare on a nice display for people, that may not increase the quality of life for the animal.


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Just to clarify. I'm not for one moment sugesting that anyone who keeps stuff in pots etc is in any way treating the animal badly, or vice versa.


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## Andy b 1 (May 14, 2007)

id rather see my royal in a viv but hey ho i can only afford a RUB atm so that shall suffice!! :lol2:


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Although i agree with you to an extent....

Inverts are great to some people especially students as they are cheap and have LOTS of variety. Furthermore there are quite literally hundreds of different species of tarantula (let alone other inverts) on the market each with their own personality, looks and color variations so people do tend to have lots if they like them.

Now considering myself i have 13 tarantulas. The slings are in very clear glass jars, the adults in faunariums. If i was to say all of them were adults and id buy display cases for them i.e. exo terras it work work out as:

4x box exo terras aprox £30 - £120
5x arboreal exo terras £35 each - £175
2x burrowing species, £25 for custom glass tanks from germany - £50
2x long exo terras 1meter by 30 cm - £65 each - £130

That all works out at £475 aprx for tanks alone.....

NOW decoration for that lot would probably cost about £60 for cheap stuff. That brings the total to £535.

Expensive decoration would cost in the region of £100 + 30 hours of work.

Considering most of my tarantulas are slings i estimate ive spent about £165 for 13 tarantulas. Thats a lot to spend on housing considering their costs. My entire collection will be worth about £300-£400 as adults.

Currently i don't have any communal species, but i plan to have pokeys communally at some point. This means a £65 tank as adults + god knows how much in decoration for 4/5 spiders.

2 Of my species (Green bottle blue and Pokey) will be going into display cases because quite frankly they NEED to be displayed. My h.lividum is already in a display case because quite frankly nothing else gives the amount of substrate needed for depth and even then it could do with another 30cm of substrate.

Spiders at the end of the day do not like big spaces, keeping a sling in an over sized tub will result in death and most likely escape since some are 0.5cm. Although Faunariums are not the best, they are cheap, secure and in the right light you can see the tarantula perfectly.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I have some spiders in exo terra vivariums, and others in 5l cereal containers... All the spider act the same, that is naturally (well, as natural as you can when you're shut in a box!) and doing spidery things. 
In every tub, whether it be a plastic one or a glass one, the spider has everything to accomodate its needs. I.e the burrowers have deep substrate, the arboreals have things to climb on and vertical hides. All my terrestrial spiders also have hides... As a keeper and breeder of spiders, i cannot afford to buy 200 odd glass tanks... 

What would you house spiderlings in then if this is your view? Assuming you bred say parahybana.. what would you use to house the 2000 spiderlings?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

each to their own tbh
some love to breed others love to watch
some create great retreats others provide substrate only.
This guys spider room shows how good things can look, if money isn't an object:
Pajki


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Becky said:


> I have some spiders in exo terra vivariums, and others in 5l cereal containers... All the spider act the same, that is naturally (well, as natural as you can when you're shut in a box!) and doing spidery things.
> In every tub, whether it be a plastic one or a glass one, the spider has everything to accomodate its needs. I.e the burrowers have deep substrate, the arboreals have things to climb on and vertical hides. All my terrestrial spiders also have hides... As a keeper and breeder of spiders, i cannot afford to buy 200 odd glass tanks...
> 
> What would you house spiderlings in then if this is your view? Assuming you bred say parahybana.. what would you use to house the 2000 spiderlings?


I'm not really going to discuss this all again, as we've discussed it a lot already anyway, but I think that your own situation is rather different from most other peoples Becky - and that trying to do more than use RUBs would be silly/uneconomical in your case. The sheer volume of animals you have, and the range of life styles/ages makes me think of your collection in a similar manner to a pet shop - rather more expansive than the average collector who might have at most 20 inverts. 


It's kinda similar to myself in the Lab. I might well have 800+ juvenile harvestmen to contend with in a few weeks time, all under 2mm in size. I'm housing them in 30mm petri dishes...not natural I know, but its all I can budget for, and it will allow me to adjust the humidity better and keep track of individuals.

I think in situations where people have fewer inverts, it makes sense to display them. Personally, I always aim for a natural habitat regardless of whether its in a RUB or a glass tank. You can get larger RUBs, and its no hassle really if you only have a few inverts to do it with. I think i'm also lucky that most of my inverts are quite small - my whips are about 3cm, and my solifuge is only about 4cm, so a 25-30cm long tub is fairly big compared to them.

What I am against, are people who house inverts just plain incorrectly - those shoe box containers, with little or no substrate in them.There is no way that the animal has the oppertunity to behave normally in such containers, and I am glad to see them gradually being replaced with more considerate containers in the majority of set-ups.


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/51375-cams-inverts.html

made some myself, page one shows them.


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## GazEmm (Jul 11, 2006)

I think in an IDEAL world, which as you all know this isn't, most of us would like to house our animals in the biggest, fanciest and most naturally decorated enclosures...i don't think its that people don't want to do this, but for some people it is just not realistically possible.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/51375-cams-inverts.html
> 
> made some myself, page one shows them.












This is exactly why GBB's should get a display tank. :2thumb:


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## SpiderGirl33 (Sep 2, 2007)

I have mine in cheap plastic faunariums and tupperware for slings and juveniles.
They all have plants, hides and waterbowls, and all of them are in pots that offer them enough space. 

I'd rather see somebody have them in cheap tubs and have enough money to feed them and buy them enough hides/dishes etc than spend a fortune on fancy glass tanks and struggle to buy them food cos they spent so much on tanks.
As a 15yr old, I can only afford cheap tubs, I wouldn't be able to keep tarantulas at all if I had to keep them in glass exo terras.
And as for labeling, all my pots are labelled, except for one or two because I know what spiders are in them anyway. I'm not running a zoo, as long as I know what's in the pots that's fine.

Sam


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## GazEmm (Jul 11, 2006)

Lucifus said:


> This is exactly why GBB's should get a display tank. :2thumb:


:mf_dribble: This is why i want one of these so bad...looks stunning!!


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I do not feel that my setups are similar to petshops in any way shape or form!!!!!! 

I don't see why people who keep many spiders get seen in this light??? My spiders would be no better off in glass tanks full of decor and plants than they are as they are anyway?? 

Take a Poecilotheria species in the wild for example. How often do you think it takes a stroll through the woods to admire the scenery??? Never... It sits webbed into a retreat iniside a piece of bark on a tree... So a tub with a bit of bark for it to hide in is the same yes? Be it made of plastic or glass.

Take my female P. regalis for example. Her house is decorated. She's in a 45x30x30 exo terra vivarium. Substrate on the bottom, a water bowl, and the rest has some plants to fill up the background etc. Her hide is a cork bark tube...
Now i have had this spider a year... i have seen her once in that year outside of her hide. And where was she??? Sitting on the outside of her hide. Maybe she was smelling the fake floristry, maybe she was pruning the dead leaves, maybe admiring the view... i don't know, but to me, looked like she was just sitting there! 

A burrowing spider in a glass tank. All this spider sees is dirt for gods sake!!! Top, bottom and both sides, compacted dirt. Why does it really matter if at the top is plants and lovely looking things that make it pleasing to the eye?? 
I'd rather spend less in the way of decor and more on feeding my spiders decent food, feeding their food decent food so as to give them better nutrition, providing decent hides (cork bark is not cheap!!) so if all this is achieved and all humidity levels are right, the spiders way of life is correct (i,e housed adequately for its lifestyle; fossorial, terrestrial or arboreal) then i'm really lost as to why it really matters... except for how people look at them.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Does it really matter as long as the spids are looked after ok? 

For example look at Beckys set up as some of you have commented before. Since when have any of you seen a pic of an unwell spid or one not looking healthy or without a natural environment in Beckys collection? The aswer to that is never because all of her spids have the proper care and environment needed. Also you cannot say that her collection does not look impressive.

Tbh a spid really does not care what its enclosure looks like as long as it has a hide, substrate, water dish and is fed weekly.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Thank you Selina! My point exactly!! :no1:


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

Toeboe said:


> I personally prefer to see a nice display environment for exotics than to see lots of opaque rubs and tubes, racked up on shelves with stickers on. Its not a criticism of anyones ability to care for the animals. I just like to enjoy a "slice of life", or as near to it.
> Those who keep lots of species in rubs can teach us who only keep a few a lot through their experience of husbandry.
> I reiterate, i personally like to see something that mimics a snapshot of its home.
> And I'm not trying to be controversial.
> There, discuss. :whistling2:


i agree but the amount some people have on here it wouldn't really be possible lol


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

And also.. another point about the petshop thing....

Would having all the spiders in glass not be more petshop like???

Also... how would i be able to lug huge great glass tanks about everytime i wanted to get them down to feed etc? I couldn't do it!!


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## GazEmm (Jul 11, 2006)

Not sure if i've missed something here but i didnt notice anyway suggesting people with many spiders in rubs and the like are not looking after their spids correctly?!

I dont think this thread is a question of anyones care abilities anyway...it simply comes down to what the person keeping the spider wants.

There is no need to have fancy tanks with all the trimmings and as Becky has said, it does not benefit the spider in any way, as long as the main components are there. BUT if the person keeping the T wants it all to look impressive then by all means go all out on the setup.

Basically there is no right or wrong answer here...as long as the spider has what it needs then its fine :2thumb:


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

lol funny thread itws turned out to be.

I personally appreciate a beautifl enclosure enough to do it, i get so many comments from visitors to see them, i enjoy it.. But the spiders benefits could be listed on a finger...

these are my main displays, they look good but id hate to work out the cost! lol


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## GazEmm (Jul 11, 2006)

C_Strike said:


> the spiders benefits could be listed on a finger...


 
:lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> I'm not really going to discuss this all again, as we've discussed it a lot already anyway, but I think that your own situation is rather different from most other peoples Becky - and that trying to do more than use RUBs would be silly/uneconomical in your case. The sheer volume of animals you have, and the range of life styles/ages makes me think of your collection in a similar manner to a pet shop - rather more expansive than the average collector who might have at most 20 inverts.
> 
> 
> > TBH mate if i saw a petshop keep their spids as well as Beckys then i would be impressed. Also i think its due to Beckys hard work that there are more spids etc about so we can afford to have them as pets.
> ...


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

And if we're gonna be picky about what people do... What are you hoping to benefit from catching native inverts and keeping them in petri dishes in a lab?? Surely thats 10x worse than my "petshop" collection........


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm one of the folk that use cheap plastic tubs for my spiders, mostly because they are affordable and cheap to replace. I have approx 80 tarantula's in varying sizes from 1cm to 5+ inches, arboreals, terrestrials and 1 burrowing so the differing sizes of cheap plastic tubs are easy to get compared to large glass tanks.

This is an E. vulpinus, 5" legspan and semi-arboreal. Her tub is 15"L x 13" W x 13" H so it gives her plenty of ground room with height from climbing also.









This one is a 2" E. truculentus. He is terrestrial so doesnt need height. He seems tiny in his tub but he does use most of it.









Plastic tubs can be used just as well as glass tanks but only a lot cheaper which suits me better. I can use more money for Decor or feeding etc.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Elaine god forbid!!!!!!! Plastic argh... my eyes!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:

What a load of bollocks.


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Oi leave my plastic alone. I :flrt: it :lol2:

Looks good though huh?? :2thumb:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah.. except it's not glass so your spiders look miserable! And the fact you have more than 1 spider is just horrendous!!!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Why is petshop just used as insult all the time?


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Becky said:


> Yeah.. except it's not glass so your spiders look miserable! And the fact you have more than 1 spider is just horrendous!!!


I'll have you know that I have a huge female albop here that is in a glass tank and looks miserable (never see her). Maybe I should stick her in a plastic tub to cheer her up :whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Becky said:


> And if we're gonna be picky about what people do... What are you hoping to benefit from catching native inverts and keeping them in petri dishes in a lab?? Surely thats 10x worse than my "petshop" collection........


 
FFS, for a start I was actually agreing with you. I'm not entirely sure what the hell Selina was on about either...

I actually said, that with someone with your collection, its stupid to try going for massive glass tanks. It's uneconomical - as in, I agreed with you. I think you should stop assuming that im having a go, and actually read what i'm saying. 

And, in regards harvestmen - I study them. Thats a different ball game entirely to keeping them as pets. I love the little guys, but they arent pets, they can't be. Also, note the size: < 2mm. In a 30mm petri dish...do you keep your animals in containers 15x their bodylength?


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

lolz, well im lost...who said petshop, who are you arguing with Bex?
dont think anyones said theyr husbandry suffers when in rubs...or did they? lol 

so lost


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

In fact, i made the comparison to pet shop because its often a shop that owns a lot of animals. You dont have to assume i'm suggesting a _BAD_ pet shop...should we all have a go at how Lee keeps his animals now?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Elaine R said:


> Oi leave my plastic alone. I :flrt: it :lol2:
> 
> Looks good though huh?? :2thumb:


Love the set up Elaine. 

Notice the healthy spids people. See no evidence of plastic poisening lols.


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Thanks Selina. Those are 2 of my favourite spiders. Pretty cute huh? xx


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

GRB said:


> FFS, for a start I was actually agreing with you. I'm not entirely sure what the hell Selina was on about either...
> 
> I actually said, that with someone with your collection, its stupid to try going for massive glass tanks. It's uneconomical - as in, I agreed with you. I think you should stop assuming that im having a go, and actually read what i'm saying.
> 
> And, in regards harvestmen - I study them. Thats a different ball game entirely to keeping them as pets. I love the little guys, but they arent pets, they can't be. Also, note the size: < 2mm. In a 30mm petri dish...do you keep your animals in containers 15x their bodylength?


Why??? What are you aiming to achieve by looking at what we already know about them?? Seems pointless to me! 



C_Strike said:


> lolz, well im lost...who said petshop, who are you arguing with Bex?
> dont think anyones said theyr husbandry suffers when in rubs...or did they? lol
> 
> so lost


Read GRB's first post in this thread.



GRB said:


> In fact, i made the comparison to pet shop because its often a shop that owns a lot of animals. You dont have to assume i'm suggesting a _BAD_ pet shop...should we all have a go at how Lee keeps his animals now?


Maybe we should because Lee uses plastic too. 
I take offence to people saying my lot is like a petshop because its completely not! Few petshops look after spiders correctly (Athravan i'm not picking at you, from what i've heard you're in the clear ) so in my mind would be saying that i am not doing the best for my animals because they're in tubs not decorated to the highest standards.

Hey if people wanna see my spiders tanks full of decor, feel free to send me some and i'll stick it in!!!


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> FFS, for a start I was actually agreing with you. I'm not entirely sure what the hell Selina was on about either...
> 
> I actually said, that with someone with your collection, its stupid to try going for massive glass tanks. It's uneconomical - as in, I agreed with you. I think you should stop assuming that im having a go, and actually read what i'm saying.
> 
> And, in regards harvestmen - I study them. Thats a different ball game entirely to keeping them as pets. I love the little guys, but they arent pets, they can't be. Also, note the size: < 2mm. In a 30mm petri dish...do you keep your animals in containers 15x their bodylength?


Sorry mate but what u wrote was pretty harsh tbh.


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

I'll send you some decor if you send me a female B. klaasi Becky :2thumb:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

why do people get so defensive about this?
The thread starter has gone to pains to explain he's not judging. 
Some people are happy to use their time and money to set-up display tanks and that's what the thread starter is suggesting he prefers. He's certainly not saying that putting your spids in plastic containers is wrong. Nor has he suggested that monies spent on these displays has meant a lack of money in feeding the Ts, as some have suggested.

I'd be interested to know how those who feel they have it right measured this? Is there a guage that I haven't purchased? (If you feel you have a need to rant on this question please pm me rather than feed the angst).
Lets get real, we all have different ways of looking after our pets and that's what makes the hobby so interesting, that's what helps us to learn and to try alternative methods. The display tanks are for display, something nice to look at when you can't see the inhabitants, not a judgement on how things must be done. Personally I have both, I prefer the display tanks, I prefer clear glass or acrylic to opaque containers, purely because I want to see the beauty of the inhabitants without disturbing them, to make sure the substrate isn't alive with mites and to get a quick visual on their enclosures.

Breathe in, 
and out
and relax


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

well im staying outta this other than to say from what i saw, GRB was in aggreement with you. he goes on to say that his are in RUB. His problem was inadequate enclosures be it glass or rub..

cyas, lmao


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Elaine R said:


> I'll send you some decor if you send me a female B. klaasi Becky :2thumb:


 
Or not!!!!!!! :lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Becky said:


> Why??? What are you aiming to achieve by looking at what we already know about them?? Seems pointless to me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I donate a leaf Bex 100% plastic free :whistling2:


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Becky said:


> Or not!!!!!!! :lol2:


Drat :bash:


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

Becky said:


> Why??? What are you aiming to achieve by looking at what we already know about them?? Seems pointless to me!


Disagree on this one tho:whistling2: its scientific progress, even if the same results occur, it backs up and validates the previous work meaning it bares more weight as evidence for the results.
We know much about basic anatomy but i doubt very much about endoparasites for one, or maybe behavioural patterns havent been well documented.. or even internal anatomical structures and contents, who knows, but lots of science tests end up manipulated towards a bias anyway so having multiple is good:2thumb:.
Im wainting to read Grants papaer


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

If GRB is in agreement then fair enough, but i took it as offensive because he said about me having more than X number of spiders before and criticised me for it... Not that any of it is his business. IMO my spiders are all as happy as can be, and are happily mating and breeding in plastic tubs without any decor.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Becky said:


> Why??? What are you aiming to achieve by looking at what we already know about them?? Seems pointless to me!
> 
> You dont know what i'm studying, so I fail to see how that comment makes any sense, nor how it is merited.
> 
> ...


I dont think anyone was actually having a go, but you seem very defensive, and to me thats strange if you are so confident in your actions. 

I don't think it suits you trying to tell me what is relevant and interesting to study in the field of Opilione research. Perhaps you can keep further discussion to the topic at hand.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm not the only one who thinks it, but you study trues more than u study T's so in the same way as i can't comment on what you do.. how can u comment on what i do?? you already assumed my breeding was for profit and that i didnt take notes etc...


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

I think this thread has got needlessly out of hand.

After reading through all of this thread, To me it seems the OP was only commenting on personal preference as to the cosmetic look of the set ups.

I am in agreement, as I like my tanks to look great with fake leaves and nice hides etc. Although this is expensive to do, I'm getting there slowly. I buy a couple of glass tanks at each show, and in the mean time use cheaper faunariums.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Becky said:


> I'm not the only one who thinks it, but you study trues more than u study T's so in the same way as i can't comment on what you do.. how can u comment on what i do?? you already assumed my breeding was for profit and that i didnt take notes etc...


Sorry people but its funny how both me and Bex read it the same way!

Tbh i think everyone wants their tanks to look pretty but does it really matter whether the outside is glass or plastic. Its not as if the spids care.


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

It doesn't matter if the tank is glass or plastic.....

but people will still have a preference.

and thats all this thread was about.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

My preference is if the spid is happy then i am happy!!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Becky said:


> I'm not the only one who thinks it, but you study trues more than u study T's so in the same way as i can't comment on what you do.. how can u comment on what i do?? you already assumed my breeding was for profit and that i didnt take notes etc...


I thought we agreed to drop that convo? Again, I never once said you were out to make profit. I just said that breeding is not some sort of fantastic noble activity, when in many cases it barely dents the impact of WC animals. 

Again, that instance was you mis-reading my post, and myself taking offense to your post about the meat industry, and we both agreed to leave it as is. I havent brought up again until now, I dont see why it is relevant.

Obviously it still clouds your reading of my posts. To me, this all seems like my initial post was skim-read and mis understood. What a pointless discussion. 

And Selina: I'll say it again: My post didnt discuss the merits of glass nor plastic, its was totally neutral to them both. Stop confusing me with someone else...

Anyway, i'm off. I dont want to keep arguing about something so stupid.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> I thought we agreed to drop that convo? Again, I never once said you were out to make profit. I just said that breeding is not some sort of fantastic noble activity, when in many cases it barely dents the impact of WC animals.
> 
> Again, that instance was you mis-reading my post, and myself taking offense to your post about the meat industry, and we both agreed to leave it as is. I havent brought up again until now, I dont see why it is relevant.
> 
> ...


Lighten up mate.


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## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm personally not fussed about appearance as long as the spider does ok. With an ever increasing collection, space saving becomes more important and being as T's don't necessarily need a great deal of space, containers can be a bit smaller providing the spider has enough space to burrow or build their web nests. I can't deny keeping spiders in smaller than ideal containers in the past but I disagree with anyone who thinks that large amounts of space is a necessity.


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Lighten up mate.


im still not wanting to get into anything, but i do think GRB has been pushed into the corner for no justifiable reason. I read no agrument to plastic nor glass, and i saw no insinuation of Bex caring for her inverts badly, or even slightly inadequately.
GRB, i assume would be a bit frustrated at the situation, hence the responses being a little tense,but thats reciprocated by some of the responses.


Again i may be missing something, so please dont eat me, lol


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> im still not wanting to get into anything, but i do think GRB has been pushed into the corner for no justifiable reason. I read no agrument to plastic nor glass, and i saw no insinuation of Bex caring for her inverts badly, or even slightly inadequately.
> GRB, i assume would be a bit frustrated at the situation, hence the responses being a little tense,but thats reciprocated by some of the responses.
> 
> 
> Again i may be missing something, so please dont eat me, lol


Agreed!

and dont eat me either, you'l robbing the world of some good looking children when I eventually reproduce!! :lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Jamie said:


> Agreed!
> 
> and dont eat me either, you'l robbing the world of some good looking children when I eventually reproduce!! :lol2:


 Tbh this has all got a lil outa hand. I was just stating how i read it lols. Also i have no wish to eat u Jamie.


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## Fatpower (Aug 17, 2007)

Im no expert but id assume plastic is easier to climb than glass so would that not make it a more suitable and maybe safer environment for the spider?

More on topic though I prefer glass but it completely depends on the size of the spider in question, my first 2 purchases were put in an exo terra 45 x 45 (chille rose) and a 20 gallon fish tank (h. lividum). This was simply because they were already adults and that would be there home for life.

On the other hand plastic is better for housing slings for many pratical reasons and not just economic issues in my eyes, the main one being its hard to drill suitable air holes through glass :lol2:


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i got my mexican and chilean rose in a clear plastic tank and they still act like normal my spiderlings are in black and clear camra tubs still eatting molting like normal (what i call normal) i dont think it makes a differant to a tarantula they dont see the way we see things a home is a home they dont know better unless they WC lol they seen the world lol.
i LOVE my spiders :flrt:


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Poxicator said:


> why do people get so defensive about this?
> The thread starter has gone to pains to explain he's not judging.
> Some people are happy to use their time and money to set-up display tanks and that's what the thread starter is suggesting he prefers. He's certainly not saying that putting your spids in plastic containers is wrong. Nor has he suggested that monies spent on these displays has meant a lack of money in feeding the Ts, as some have suggested.
> 
> ...


Thanks Poxicator, also Jamie in a shorter but later post. You read exactly what I was talking about and didnt read between lines like some. GRB too, not forgetting C-strike for his magnificent displays (,,erm and everyone else who has magnificent displays).
I was looking for opinions and I sure got them, we are all right so long as the T is ok. I still prefer to see them through clear substances rather than say " here I'll pop this plastic lid open and show you my,,,,,,", surely that alone gives the beast a fright (maybe I'm wrong though). 
I fully understand the views of all of you and this thread has answered some of my questions as to why some might like to keep things like a football card collection. 
Becky I think your input into this forum is invaluable, and your knowledge and passion is unquestionable. Contrary to some of your posts, I havent read any that go out to criticise you, and mine certainly wasnt.
I have kept tiny numbers of T's for 25+ years and dont profess to have a fraction of any of the knowledge that some of you have. They have always been in glass and have lived a long life until age got the better of them. I have never had a T, lizard or snake die from ill health (maybe I have been lucky).
I have wanted to raise this post for a while but didnt because I didnt want some to take it the wrong way. It would appear my fear that some people may be over sensitive and unable to debate without feeling like its aimed at them have been realised. 
Open, honest, lively debate. Its how we learn. But sometimes we need to think that a)we are right, b)we are wrong, or c)all points of view have their merits. 

I came in peace:welcome::lol2:


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Nearly forgot, respect to Lucifus too. Good points well made.:2thumb:


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## SpiderGirl33 (Sep 2, 2007)

Toeboe said:


> I personally prefer to see a nice display environment for exotics than to see lots of opaque rubs and tubs


Go to a zoo or a wildlife park then! 
With the spiders I keep, there's no point in having completely clear plastic or glass because I can't see them anyway, they're always down their burrows.
For most of my spiders I have see through plastic so I can still see them, but for the small ones there isn't much point.
Like Becky said, if you have a very large collection then it wouldn't be practical to have big, heavy, glass tanks. 
If you buy quite a special spider, say a GBB or a blondi then it might be worth having a couple of glass tanks because they grow very big/do a lot of webbing making them display spiders.
But if you were to come to my house right now and have a look at my tanks, more than likely you'd just see legs sticking out of a hole or what looks like an empty tank with some leaves in. 
BTW, I'm not trying to start an arguement by posting this or anything, I'm just sharing my opinion!


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

,,,and we are all entitled to our opinions,,,:lol2:

It's the heart of this thread. Its good to hear others opinions, and I'm listening to them all. Isnt it emotive though :bash:, lol


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

One thing I've noticed about this thread is the assumption that glass is expensive, which it neednt be especially if you can pick up 2nd hand tanks, and that plastic is always opaque, which it neednt be.
So, in a bid to share our "best plastic tubs" I thought I'd post this, from IKEA which I use to house my P. reduncus. Certainly wouldn't house an adult but great for younger spids. They sell taller versions but Its rather unfortunate they don't do a wider version capable of housing adults.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I've got 6 glass exo terra's, 1 glass custom aquaria, 1 wooden viv and 5 plastic pots housing young mantids. When it comes to plastic there just isn't much choice. There's a place in the states that does fantastic looking acrylic housing for spiders, although they ship to the UK the shipping costs more than the housing. 

The major dowside to glass is the sheer weight. When I moved house a few months back I had to get my dad to help me move my big glass exo terra and to say it nearly did us both in would be an understatment! Of course you can't stack glass either and shelving has to be very strong.

If I could get what I wanted in plastic then I would have gone with that. I keep my collection on my rather large desk and having glass means I can see everything clearly and easily.


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

Interesting thread.

As far as enclosures go ours are tubs with hide, bowl etc. Any display tanks are going to be made out of acrylic, its clearer than glass :Na_Na_Na_Na:
I'm currently building another arboreal tank and the one I built recently (that hasn't yet fallen apart) is housing a juvenile Avic. 

Not purely spider related but the whole enclosure thing interests me. You hear on the forum of people arguing over 6" width on a beardie viv. "The viv must be 4x2x2' minimum. Or else!"
Although I don't disagree with size suggestions I'd love to know who sat down and made them 'law', if you will. Getting a nice large enclosure is great if the animal benefits from it. I've heard of 5' vivs for Leos. That's great, but where do you draw the line? 6'? 10'? a room on their own? My two adult leos are now in a tub that's larger and soon to be better decorated than the viv they were in when I got them. It was easier to see them in the viv but I know I have them.

For me, knowing I have an animal is just as good as seeing it.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

After my new T i'll be getting next week ill have 11. Im not getting any more (thats the plan anyways) so will be able to get everyone exo terras over time and when theyre all adults, but with people who have lots theres really no point, the cost of setting up and finding the space for them would be very difficult. My brother has i think its nearly 200 Ts and breeds them, theres is no way he could realistically set them all up in nice glass tanks, although a select few do have tanks (the Blondi for one) 

I guess it all depends on how many you keep, how much you can afford to spend on one setup and space.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

ooops, I didn't put the price of the IKEA tubs - £1.50 for the smaller one - 7&1/4" high, £2.50 for the taller one - 11&3/4"
soz


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> ooops, I didn't put the price of the IKEA tubs - £1.50 for the smaller one - 7&1/4" high, £2.50 for the taller one - 11&3/4"
> soz


Fantastic will check that out, do they do 30 leters there too/


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Lucifus said:


> Fantastic will check that out, do they do 30 leters there too/


30 litres! eeek no, not in this design
0.3, 1.3 & 2.3 litre: IKEA | Food storage | Jars, tins & food savers | IKEA 365+ | Jar with lid


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Vase said:


> For me, knowing I have an animal is just as good as seeing it.



Interesting statement. isnt this the "football card collection" theory I mentioned earlier though. I can appreciate what you're saying though.


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

I think it could be to an extent. Although, and pretty obviously, animals are not inanimate objects, you get to interact with them as well as appreciate them generally. So it goes a lot deeper than just seeing them. If that makes sense?


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

That statement of Vase's is true of Millipedes for me. I've got loads I see once in a blue moon simply because they spend a lot of time underground but knowing I've got them makes me happy.


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## steveH (Nov 8, 2006)

I like to see the animal

even if its 3 times a year, thats better than 0 times a year in a tub

but i keep very few T's (none atm i am gettin back into it :no1

for the 'collectors' i completely get plastic tubs, they are perfect for those that want to just observe them when they want to and have lots of T's

for me though i want a display, if i am not going to see the T may as well have something nice to look at in my eyes


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## lethalmethal (Jul 21, 2010)

something ive found highly succesful is splitting large 4 x 1.5 foot tanks to accomodate multiple spiders can be a very effective space saving exersize if done correctly if done incorrectly can be disasterous as a friend of mine found out when his lambertons burrowed under the divide ( which should always go below the subby right to the bottom of the tank which he failed to do and meet the lid flush at the top) his lambertons was promptly eaten by his B smithi :gasp: thankfully ive never had this happen


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

steveH said:


> I like to see the animal
> 
> even if its 3 times a year, thats better than 0 times a year in a tub
> ...
> ...


I feel the same way, I really want to be able to see my tarantulas on the occasions they are visible without having to take off lids and disturb them. . Now, I only have a small collection of 16 inverts (12 of which are arachnids) and I have the space for that many display enclosures. I don't think that this is the only good way of housing Ts or look down on people that use RUBs or plastic tubs in any way, its just the best way for me because,.. well,.. (LOL) I like it that way better :blush:. To be fair, I only start providing clear plastic tubs at juvie stage (when there is something to look at!) and only large juvies and adults get glass display tanks. So glass vs RUB is mainly for my benefit, I don't think the Ts would care one way or the other.

As for the decor, decorating the tank in a naturalistic way (and thinking carefully about what decor to use and how to arrange it to try and make the spider feel secure but also to give me something nice to look at) is a big part of the fun of the tarantula hobby for me. Here, as an example, is the new enclosure for my juvenile female P. regalis:









I had a fab time picking out the size and shape of the cork tube that I thought she would feel safe in and decorating it to look like a bit of tree trunk! And she seems to be happy with the result too. A few dats later, after she'd webbed a bit and dug down through the substrate at the bottom of the tube, I found her sitting out looking stunning on the lip of the tube. It is now her favourite place to wait for prey and I get to see her regularly (hurray!).


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

how do people drag threads back up from 2008 n times like that :S


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

brownj6709 said:


> how do people drag threads back up from 2008 n times like that :S


Ha-ha ! I've only just noticed that :blush:!
Can't say that I'm not glad it got dragged back up though, otherwise I would never have got to read it .


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

Chaika said:


> Ha-ha ! I've only just noticed that :blush:!
> Can't say that I'm not glad it got dragged back up though, otherwise I would never have got to read it .


yea it is quite an interesting thread i jst wonder why the odd old one pops up from time to time they do in the classifieds 2 :S


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## Diabolic Al (Mar 12, 2010)

brownj6709 said:


> how do people drag threads back up from 2008 n times like that :S


I only noticed that after reading the entire damn thing!! I was gonna comment but seems somewhat pointless now......


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## Toeboe (Dec 28, 2006)

Nobody is as surprised as me :whistling2:


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## Animalmadness (Dec 8, 2009)

lethalmethal said:


> something ive found highly succesful is splitting large 4 x 1.5 foot tanks to accomodate multiple spiders can be a very effective space saving exersize if done correctly if done incorrectly can be disasterous as a friend of mine found out when his lambertons burrowed under the divide ( which should always go below the subby right to the bottom of the tank which he failed to do and meet the lid flush at the top) his lambertons was promptly eaten by his B smithi :gasp: thankfully ive never had this happen


 Ouch, i bet he was pretty miffed


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

I keep my T's in nice display enclosures and RUB's I don't personally see the problem with that..... 

The T's seem happy enough and I'm happy enough....


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Jeez, what an old thread. This surfaced after my stormy "Habitat enrichment" thread...


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## Chaika (Jun 5, 2009)

GRB said:


> Jeez, what an old thread. This surfaced after my stormy "Habitat enrichment" thread...


Which one was that? Sounds interesting,..


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Chaika said:


> Which one was that? Sounds interesting,..


It was binned IIRC - basically I made the point of habitat enrichment for spiders and a few people argued against it. It all got a bit personal...

It was one of the first threads I made here after being somewhat chagrined by the "shoebox + 5mm vermiculite base" tubs I saw so many use. I argued that spiders have complex stimulus detection and do exhibit plasticity in behaviours if given larger more complex enclosures. 

it's kind of funny how 2 years later, many people are more open to the idea and make fantastic naturalistic containers. I feel kind of vindicated, although it was certainly not "my idea" as such - I'd seen many US and European keepers do the same with great results.


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## Sublios_Pixelus (Dec 13, 2008)

Each to their own and all that but when ever I see pics of peoples setups and you see slings in those black film canisters or all there spiders in little tubs inside a bigger tub tucked away on some shelf I just think well what's the f'kin point in that? it's like buying a clock and having the face facing the wall :bash:


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