# Performing minor veterinary procedures - do you, or would you learn to?



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm starting to consider whether it might be an idea for me to learn how to do minor veterinary procedures on my own reptiles - nothing that is not legal for a non-veterinarian to perform (particularly, no body cavity surgery), but generally things that CAN be performed by the owner of the animal - emergency first aid, for example, or minor medical procedures.

The particular I have in mind is being able to give calcium injections before dystocia becomes serious enough to warrant a vet trip - and to prevent it from becoming that serious, because I trust my current "exotics" vet about as far as I can throw him when it comes to egg binding. However, I am certainly not going to try it on my live animals until I've been properly trained to do it and have practiced any procedure on inanimate objects and/or euthanased feeder mice.

Does anyone do this sort of thing themselves? How did you learn to do it?


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

actually id be very interested to learn that type of thing,i self treat my dogs where possible,again as you said nothing major but things that ppl would take their dogs to the vets for,abcess' anal glands etc,i think it would be an excellent tool to have as rep vets or should i say good rep vets a few and far between


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

The vet showed me how to give injections to snakes, lizards and tortoises and supervised me whilst guiding me on my own reptiles who needed it (mostly calcium and vitamin injections, but also some during antibiotic treatments) so that I could in future simply give medication to my own animals. I've also been shown how to suck out the eggs for egg binding but would never attempt that myself. Just ask if you can learn yourself and buy just the medication, and hopefully they will be accomodating?


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

I would recommend speaking to your vet. My vet is happy to allow me to give injections (depending on the medication, of course), and similar minor things, such as allowing me more freedom with medication than maybe some pet owners would get, plus help on doing gross autopsies on my animals.

If your vet is rubbish, I wouldn't recommend going on your own - I had to travel quite a distance to find a vet who was willing to help me learn, but it was worth it in the long run. But you do need veterinary backup on anything like that, you need someone with the experience and learning behind you otherwise you're not learning anything really.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

At this point, I'm going to hope that my usual exotics vet comes back from maternity leave before I start considering learning how to do any kind of minor medical treatment. She is very good, and has always been willing not only to answer my questions but to ask me for my knowledge of individual animals. 

The other "exotics" vet in my area unfortunately asks a question and then talks over you and THEN gets care wrong... and is the one who suggested that an egg-bound gecko just be euthanised rather than trying oxytocin and calcium jabs or egg aspiration first.

I suppose I could make an appointment for one of our critters to have a checkup and ask one of the small-and-furry vets if they'd be willing to show me, far as it goes, should our normal vet not come back.


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

I do a fair amount of minor medical treatment on a wide variety of animals, reptiles included. I give various diferent injections, to various species, I have set broken and dislocated wings, legs, toes and pelvis. I treat open wounds, infections, eye problems, plus plenty of other stuff i am probably forgeting right now. on the other side of it I also carry out several methods of euthanasia and post mortems. my situation is slightly diferent though. working at the wildlife centre I am getting in new patients daily, many of which require medical treatment so I have a fair bit of experience dealing with them. I also work very closely with many of the vets in my area, who actuly pass stuff on to us rather than treating it themselves. plus my best friend is also a vet, and she regualy helps me out and teaches me new methods and treatments, as well as looking at any PMs I can't figure out. 

most decent vets will be happy to teach you minor stuff, such as how to give injections once they know you are sensible and genuinly know what you are doing.this will be helpful in that if your animal needs a course of injections you won't have to keep taking it in every time, however you will not be able to just say "hey my animal has this, I will just give it an injection" because you won't have the medication. that is perscription only, and most vets will be very carfull not to give you any more than what the animal needs at that time, so you will still have to take it in if something new comes up. even we still have that problem, although some of our vets are good enough to give us a little extra or perscribe a long course to something that is not going to survive because they know what we do.


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

I just recently did an egg aspiration on one of my eggbound females (2 eggs), read up on the subject as much as possible etc & waited as long as i dared, bit the bullet & did the deed. Two hours later one egg was passed & the other came out 2 days later & the female is none the worse for it. It just needs a big deep breath to decide to do it....


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## Guest (May 15, 2007)

where did you get your info from bribrian ?


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

Laura-LNV said:


> where did you get your info from bribrian ?


A couple of US forums & there's a good pic on Kathy Loves site of her doing the deed....(i'll see if i can find it)
Use an 18g needle/10ml syringe, going in between the scales where the side scales meet the belly scales...

*** Found it *** http://cornutopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Photo%20&%20Image%20Stockpile%20-%20CornUtopia/Kathy%20aspirating%20egg%20yolk%20by%20syringe%20-%20CAPTION.jpg


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## Guest (May 15, 2007)

i`ll have a look at that...i couldnt do it myself though...far too squeeemish lol


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

Laura-LNV said:


> i`ll have a look at that...i couldnt do it myself though...far too squeeemish lol


That's what i thought until i had to, it's easier than you think.....


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i self treat most of my guys too if its something i can deal with..

big things i go to vets for, like when ebony broke her toes the other year, even though it was 11.30pm on a friday evening, she was at the emergancy vets by midnight. 

where have i learnt.. umm... from here and there.. asking people, reading, watching, using common sense and intuition.. ( i used to want to be a vet, so helped out at vets quite a lot when i was at school) 

i'm not really a squeamish person.. an inside out rat will still make me think "euuugh" but not in a "icky" sort of way.. more a morbid fascination sort of way. 

i would, and am considering, paying to be trained in a few minor procedures that might be useful to me in the future.

N


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

i would like to learn a few procedures that may help me look after my pets, although after helping out in a gym for a bit i have perfomed many intramuscular injections so im well versed in those(on humans anyway lol)


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

Egg aspiration by non vets is dangerous. There is a risk of leakage of egg contents causing a coeloemitis, or iatrogenic organ (eg kidney) trauma causing significant internal bleeding. What you have to remember is that if any animal needs treatment there are often underlying issues that need addressing. At my surgery I have all the facilities to deal with complications should they arise. Im not saying this to make money, Im happy to show clients how to inject eg antibiotics. Going too far can be risky and unethical, and compramise animal welfare. I once had to deal with the back end of a cow after a farmer had taken his pocket knife to it to get a calf out. It was horrific. Its easier to find a good vet and get advice. Its free and in your animals best interests


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

its weird this thread has come up, after what we had to go through with ours, when the vet was away... it would eb great to know the basics... such as injections etc etc 

me and graham were goign to find out if there are corses etc etc, but who knows?


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## hermanlover (Jul 8, 2007)

i think it would be very worth doing. i done similar with horses. i worked at a racing stables, and most of the time when there was an emergency i was always left to deal with it until a vet got there, you learn these things over time, first by watching other people doing it, vets etc, and also courses, i done a few first aid corses. it was basic things like giving an injection, making a poltice, cleaning and pressuring a wound, and what chemicals to use in different situations, was very interesting and rewarding knowing you have helped in the process, but luckily in 3 years of rep keeping i havent had a vet trip and touch wood i wont ever have one. although if there were any courses for reptile first aid i would definatly do it.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

I've given injections twice.. I just watched my Herp Vet give one and it looked easy enough so 12 hours later, I gave her another then about 24 hours after that. A lizard btw.. Was very easy, would be hard to get it wrong imo.
I'm deathly afraid of needles too, but knowing that it was doing her good made it simple and I wasn't the slightest bit scared.. weird!


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

I do most of the minor stuff myself, giving injections, minor wounds, palpating/thumbing eggs etc but luckily i`ve got an excellent vet on hand who i call up for advice on what to do if needed. I`ve never had anything that serious to deal with yet though to be fair. Fingers crossed. I think a bit of basic knowledge goes a long way though, i`ve saved a few equine lives through watching and learning.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I can inject cats dogs and small animals(no reps). We have injectable penicillin etc registered to the Sanctuary and need to know how to perform simple veterinary procedures.Anything that is more than simple is taken to our excellent vets for treatment


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## loobylou (Nov 18, 2007)

Im all for owners self treating as long as they are properly trained and know where their limitations lie. Ive seen too many animals brought into the vet surgery in awful states with the owners confessing that they thought they could treat it themselves at home. You would also have to be confident that you were 'diagnosing' the problem correctly and the correct treatment was being carried out. I think self treating would save a lot of very stressed out reptiles but isnt for every owner.
I have a beardie who was treated for mites with ivermectin injection. Im also a veterinary nurse and have injected hundreds of animals but still chose to take 'Boo' to the vet as I wasnt 100% confident. Had it been one of the cats or the dog I would not have hesitated!


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

since getting the reps my husband and i have learnt quite alot. we can both inject our reps, have administered ABs and such. i can tube my tortoises, treat wounds and skin infections. I can treat most things myself and have a pretty good grasp of anatomy. we have lots of academic papers and books so i research as much as possible. BUT i still take my animals to the vet when necessary. often i will research the problem, find out the most common treatment and call my vet for advice. if he agrees, i get a prescription or if he thinks it needs more investigation, i take the animal in to see him. alot of medication is only available through a vet, but my vet has been really good, showing me all of the procedures and how to inject, tube and assist feed and lots more.

its also very important to remember NOT to post details of meds and dosage on a public forum. it can be very tempting for inexperienced people to try and emulate their peers, and self medicate. without a good knowledge of the species that can be fatal. i have advcies friends in the past and discussed methods and dosage in times of emergency, but always via PM or telephone.

i am also in the process of learning to do different types of fecal checks. My husband did a science degree so we have all the stuff. its absolutely fascinating, i have identified all sorts and am currently studying the differences between neneficial and detrimental parasites. I am gutted that i wasted my student loan reading english, i would LOVE to study animal medicine.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

i can give injections. i have given them to a cat with diabetis, and when one of the horses needed injections every day for a week. i also cut my rabbits teeth as he gets stressed when in vets, so my vet thought it would be a good idea for me to do it at home. i also tube fed a snake. but always with my vets permission and always after he was sure i could do it. 
i think a vet would have to give the initial consultation and give instructions on any treatment he wanted you to give.


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## tigger79 (Aug 22, 2006)

interesting topic, i do agree with owners treating minor ailments, but only after a consultation with a vet, first aid on animals is exactly the same as first aid on humans, you treat the symptoms then you get further help, 

one of my royals had a RI a couple of years ago, so he went to the vets and had a course of antiniotic injections for 5 day, even with me being a combat medic, and stabbing people every day or taking blood every day, i still couldnt bring myself to inject my own snake, just in case i got it wrong.

if you animal is showing signs of illness or injury there are small thing you can do to try and help, which may help reduce vets bills,

for instance, if showing minor symptoms of an RI, rasie temps and reduce humidity - but if showing signs of getting worse or not clearing up within 36-48 hours then, its straight to the vet, 

cut and abraision - can be cleaned with some antiseptic cleaner, covered with a small dressing, and monitored - again it showing signs of infection or not healing, then off to the vets, 

egg binding - this is a touchy topic, but if you are inexperienced with dealing with it, then you have 2 options - 1 find a more experienced keeper, to swee if they can help or 2, take to vets.

Its little things like this that are helpful to know but i will state the advice above is from things i have read and been told, and if you chose to follow it, it is at your own discression.


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## Kathryn666 (Dec 16, 2007)

rodneyvet said:


> Egg aspiration by non vets is dangerous. There is a risk of leakage of egg contents causing a coeloemitis, or iatrogenic organ (eg kidney) trauma causing significant internal bleeding. What you have to remember is that if any animal needs treatment there are often underlying issues that need addressing. At my surgery I have all the facilities to deal with complications should they arise. Im not saying this to make money, Im happy to show clients how to inject eg antibiotics. Its easier to find a good vet and get advice. Its free and in your animals best interests


I agree with Rodneyvet on the dangers of aspirating eggs. 18g is a large bore needle for a snake. I use them on adult humans sometimes!

However it isn't always easy to find a rep vet.

I can and do, inject and do fluid replacement on snakes. Manipulate eggs and aspirate as needed. I can also inject horses, cats, dogs as needed either sub cut, IM or IV.

Some of this comes from being a Paramedic and other bits from having to learn.


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