# Dart Frog Setup with photo



## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

This is my new dart frog setup, just trying to get it perfect before introducing any frogs, it has a few plants but have a few more on order. It has an exo terra medium waterfall in there with an exo terra fogger in the reservoir. Humidity is low at 75% but will be getting Perspex panels for the mesh at the top to reduce ventilation and possibly an auto mister if humidity doesn't reach 80-100% constantly. I may put a heat mat on the side too on a thermostat in case temperature drops (it's at 23C most of the time ATM). The substrate is Eco earth and has the hydroleca balls at the bottom with a pool for occasional drainage. Just looking for any feedback or pointers really :2thumb: thanks


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Andy, i`m guessing thats a 45 x 45 viv.
You don`t mention what frogs your thinking of getting.
You have more plants on order too.
Right now it doesn`t look too bad, but you don`t want to crowd it too much with plants as they will over run the viv and you won`t see your frogs.
That was a mistake I made with my first viv.
Your using exo terra guages for humidity, they are not accurate so don`t go by them.
The important part is to have a water dish for the frogs to soak in if they get too dry, or if hunidity gets too low between misting.
Your waterfall should cover that part.
For a cover on the mesh you`d be better with a bit of glass rather than perspex, maybe.
An auto mister will be a waste of your money for the one viv, it`s better for when you have several, so a hand mister will be fine 2 or 3 times a day.
A heat mat might be okay if you can`t stabilise temps but most frogs will be happy at room temps.
As a rule of thumb aim for around 25c during the day with a drop to around 18c at nights.


Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Another point is the waterfall itself- a lot of keepers aren't happy to use them as they tend to accumalate crud- including dead insects- and become breeding grounds for bacteria.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Yes it's a 45x45, not sure which frogs yet to be honest, I'm just kind of making a generic type setup. I think either dendrobates azureus if that's spelled right or the bumblebee dendrobates one (can't remember the name). I'm thinking the bumblebee as its more arboreal (so I heard) and my setup is pretty steep (45 degrees plus in places) with a few level areas and one hide on the left hand side. There's a very shallow pool on the bottom left, not too deep for them to drown in. Thanks. Andy


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

The bottom tray of the waterfall is removable for access to reservoir so will be able to drain and clean every now and again.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Those waterfalls do get dirty and my one ended up in the bucket.
But don`t let me put you off using it as it will do its job.
A turkey baster will do a good job of sucking all the crap out of it.
You`ll get 3 Leucs in there okay.
For Azureus i`d say its a bit tight for space so maybe 2 of them.
Smaller frogs like Azureiventris you could have 4 or 5 easily.
All three frogs are good for beginners so you should be okay there.


Mike


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. The main concern I have with the waterfall is the gap between the tray and the reservoir. I'm sure the frogs could get through into there, get stuck and drown. I'm going to put some netting over the gap I think.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Those waterfalls do get dirty and my one ended up in the bucket.
> But don`t let me put you off using it as it will do its job.
> A turkey baster will do a good job of sucking all the crap out of it.
> You`ll get 3 Leucs in there okay.
> ...


Mike sneaks in the turkey baster again...


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Did someone mention 'turkey basters'?


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Also I am going to put a layer of leaf litter down in there, do I really have to order oak leaves from dartfrog or is it acceptable just to collect them from the park and put them in? Lol


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> Thanks for the advice. The main concern I have with the waterfall is the gap between the tray and the reservoir. I'm sure the frogs could get through into there, get stuck and drown. I'm going to put some netting over the gap I think.


Why not scrap the waterfall and just use the pump to make your own running down some bark into the pool? It would give you a lot more floor space also. I have the small exo waterfall and have never used it for the same reasons as you and the others have pointed out. The pumps are tiny and easily hidden in the drainage layer or behind a piece of bark or bog wood. Other than the waterfall I think it looks great. 

For converting the lid check out this thread http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/732973-converting-exo-terra-lids.html


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Many collect their own leaves and then microwave them for a few minutes to kill off germs.
Try if possible to get leaves that haven`t been on the ground.

Mike


turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters turkey basters


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Many collect their own leaves and then microwave them for a few minutes to kill off germs.
> Try if possible to get leaves that haven`t been on the ground.
> 
> Mike
> ...


I think Mike is pointing out when it comes to turkey basters it's important to have a back up!:lol2:


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

If I was to scrap the waterfall could I just have no running water whatsoever then? And a mister or fogger externally spraying in through a tube? Really don't fancy dragging everything out and starting from scratch lol plus I don't like the idea of having the pump in the bottom where I have no access for maintenance. 

Really have no idea about the turkey baster joke, probably don't want to know I should think lol


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yep, you can just spray regularly, no real need for the waterfall. As for the turkey basters, don't worry about it- Mike has a bit of a 'thing' for them- but he's harmless- we just nod and smile a lot.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Do you have any suggestions for a fairly automatic mister/fogger? I just would rather have one so all I have to worry about is feeding once a day.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yes that's how lots of people have their setups. You could fill in your pool and use a water dish for them to have a soak. Alternatively leave your pool but make sure you drain the water regularly. I agree that pumps can be a pain unless you can access them easily. Overall you are doing the right thing and asking the right questions. Always best to get it just how you want it before the frogs go in.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> Do you have any suggestions for a fairly automatic mister/fogger? I just would rather have one so all I have to worry about is feeding once a day.


For one tank, to be honest a handspray is going to be your best option- yes, it means doing it regularly, but it is cheap and easy. Automatic systems are pricy, and hardly worth it unless you have a fair number of vivs.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I would leave the waterfall in for now since it`s already installed.
No doubt you`ll be making another viv soon, we all got caught out with the frog bug.
The turkey baster is a very useful tool for sucking up the crap out of water dishes and waterfalls.
It`s also used for sucking up tadpoles from waterfall sumps and petri dishes for puting into rearing containers.

Mike


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Exactly, trial and error before introducing the frogs  I hope to have them in a month or so but to be honest the landscaping and gardening is just as much fun at the moment and I want everything to be spot on before I get them


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> I would leave the waterfall in for now since it`s already installed.
> No doubt you`ll be making another viv soon, we all got caught out with the frog bug.
> *The turkey baster is a very useful tool for sucking up the crap out of water dishes and waterfalls.
> It`s also used for sucking up tadpoles from waterfall sumps and petri dishes for puting into rearing containers.
> ...


He tells the Press... :lol2:

Actually, Mike or Ade (Wolfenrook) are probably best set to advise you on misters.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> Do you have any suggestions for a fairly automatic mister/fogger? I just would rather have one so all I have to worry about is feeding once a day.


Try Climate Control Price List or Misting Equipment :: MistKing :: Misting Systems - JungleFrog

Hand spraying a couple of times a day is all you really need for one viv. If you do get more vivs the misting systems are great. Mistking is good but the only problem is they have very different size fittings so are not interchangeable with other systems.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

I'll leave it then and see how it is in a few weeks and decide before I introduce the frogs. I have a couple more questions if you don't mind lol

Should I be introducing the springtails and woodlice now? And will they reproduce and maintain a cleaning operation like I am lead to believe? (I don't intend to use them as feeder food as such, ill be using fruit flies)

And what are the differences in 'personality' between Azureus and Leucs?

Cheers


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yep, introduce the woodlice and springtails ASAP. In my experience, springs reproduce much faster than the woodlice, but both will benefit in the early days from a little supplimental feeding in the form of fish flake, either scattered on top of the soil or mixed in the top layers.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

And they will maintain a population in there or do you have to buy more every few months?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

My first viv was running for a year before I put frogs in so theres no rush.
Have fun playing around with it until your happy and then when the time is right get your frogs.
In the meantime look at all the different frogs to be sure you get what it is that you want.

Mike


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> I'll leave it then and see how it is in a few weeks and decide before I introduce the frogs. I have a couple more questions if you don't mind lol
> 
> Should I be introducing the springtails and woodlice now? And will they reproduce and maintain a cleaning operation like I am lead to believe? (I don't intend to use them as feeder food as such, ill be using fruit flies)
> 
> ...


Yes put them in now and they are always useful to have as a back up if your fruit flies crash. I have never kept leucs but they are on my list after hearing all the stories on here. They are definately the ' cheeky chapies' of the Dartfrog world. Azzies are just spectacular frogs and fairly bold. Mine were out all the time and new exactly when feeding time was. Both have their merits and its really down to personal choice.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

Well thanks for the help guys, I have read so many different care sheets and they are all so generic it is good to have advice from people who keep them and have experience.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> And they will maintain a population in there or do you have to buy more every few months?


You will need to keep it topped up as the frogs are fond of a little snack. They are easy to breed and if set up in advance to let them get established the fogs won't eat them all.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> Well thanks for the help guys, I have read so many different care sheets and they are all so generic it is good to have advice from people who keep them and have experience.


Your welcome. We have all learnt from each other along the way.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

andy07966 said:


> And they will maintain a population in there or do you have to buy more every few months?





fatlad69 said:


> You will need to keep it topped up as the frogs are fond of a little snack. They are easy to breed and if set up in advance to let them get established the fogs won't eat them all.


Given that most of my frogs are much bigger than darts, there is no real issue with predation in my tanks- they are too small to be tempting. Having said that, on Stu's advice (Soundstounite; if you haven't checked out his mega-thread, *do!*) I have kept a basic woodlouse colony going seperately, and occasionally top up the population in established as well as new tanks.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I have both Leucs and Azureus here and they are both cracking frogs.
But I am always saying that every frog keeper should have Leucs.
They are proper characters and can be very entertaining as they climb around the viv.
Some have been known to launch themselves into pools of water and one i`ve heard of jumps down onto leaves and sort of bounces off into the water and then climbs back up for a repeat.
Azureus though not quite as mad have a character of their own and as Fatlad says they will come up to the viv door looking for food etc.
Mine are very bold and when i`ve been in there collecting eggs the males will stand next to my hand watching me steal their babies.
You can see them looking on and thinking WTF do you think your doing.
I`ve had tads put in the waterdish and they`ll stand guard and check on their tad after i`ve fed it to see if i`ve nicked it.
I also have Azureiventris which keep filling the waterdish with tads.
They then spend loads of time sitting on the plants around the edge of the dish watching their kids swim around.
I could go on but I think thats enough for you to digest for now lol.

Mike


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