# Does anyone keep Gila monster/beaded lizards



## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

As the title says....I've always had an interest in these guys and wondered if anyone actually keeps them. I've seen them in a local rep shop to me but never asked about them. Wish I had now.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

I keep gilas and beaded lizards they are loads of fun but sadly you need a dwa to keep them.


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## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

TEG said:


> I keep gilas and beaded lizards they are loads of fun but sadly you need a dwa to keep them.



I would apply for one just for them though. What's the care like? Can't seem to find any proper care sheets for them.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

One of the most simple lizards i have ever kept. for care etc look up dr mark stewards book, very easy read tells all you need to know about gilas.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

I keep them. Like Teg says, they are a very easy species to keep. Just make sure you do not over feed them as they would eat everyday if you let them.

Best


Alex


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## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. Will have a look around for the book.


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## omen (Sep 26, 2011)

i have handled one and they are beautiful


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## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

omen said:


> i have handled one and they are beautiful


I'm fascinated by them, really lovely looking lizards.


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## Alfonzo (Mar 7, 2008)

TEG and AJ76 - I've also had a longterm interest in Gilas (Another great book is Beck's Biology of Gila Monsters and Beaded Lizards, my copy is falling apart!). They are probably the only species I would pursue a DWA license for - but I am a long way from being able to do so (rented homes, not knowing where we are going to put down roots, working away from home etc).

I just wanted to know if you guys, as established keepers, felt that this was a species which one should be mentored for before attempting to keep, as seems to be the case with venomous snakes?


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

I have a group of reticulated and banded Gila monsters. They are truely magnificent animals. I use to keep beaded lizards too, another great species to have.


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## omen (Sep 26, 2011)

Alfonzo said:


> TEG and AJ76 - I've also had a longterm interest in Gilas (Another great book is Beck's Biology of Gila Monsters and Beaded Lizards, my copy is falling apart!). They are probably the only species I would pursue a DWA license for - but I am a long way from being able to do so (rented homes, not knowing where we are going to put down roots, working away from home etc).
> 
> I just wanted to know if you guys, as established keepers, felt that this was a species which one should be mentored for before attempting to keep, as seems to be the case with venomous snakes?


like you i really want to keep Gila's but also venomous snakes i would recomend getting some handling experiences with them so you can understand what they are like to keep and handle.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

omen said:


> like you i really want to keep Gila's but also venomous snakes i would recomend getting some handling experiences with them so you can understand what they are like to keep and handle.


 As long as you have had experience with larger lizards then you should not need mentoring with heloderma,but you must give them the respect they deserve.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Alfonzo said:


> TEG and AJ76 - I've also had a longterm interest in Gilas (Another great book is Beck's Biology of Gila Monsters and Beaded Lizards, my copy is falling apart!). They are probably the only species I would pursue a DWA license for - but I am a long way from being able to do so (rented homes, not knowing where we are going to put down roots, working away from home etc).
> 
> I just wanted to know if you guys, as established keepers, felt that this was a species which one should be mentored for before attempting to keep, as seems to be the case with venomous snakes?


That is a tough one really mate.


At the end of the day a Gila bite isn't really going to kill you ( you will wish that you were dead for sure).


If you have had a history of keeping large lizards and other such species such as tokay's etc without being bitten then I am sure you could step up to a gila as long as you are confident etc? 


I am sure other people's opinions on here will vary, but this is mine.


Regards 


Alex.


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## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm definantely going to look into, I'm used to having large lizards around and also lizards which if they bite cause some damage. (although not venomous, still painful)

What's the best way of finding a breeder?


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

I think the best thing for you to do is enquire about your dwal with you council and whether or not it is financially viable for you to do so.

Try getting yourself onto one of the venomous handling courses available.


I have a few friends that run them and can make a gila available for them to use.


Pm me on here for more details.


Regards 


Alex.


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## omen (Sep 26, 2011)

Tone said:


> I'm definantely going to look into, I'm used to having large lizards around and also lizards which if they bite cause some damage. (although not venomous, still painful)
> 
> What's the best way of finding a breeder?


im not sure but alex (house of venom) has one for sale, not sure if it has been sold though.


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## Jenface (Apr 8, 2012)

How venomous are these guys and how does their venom work?

Is it just a I might ruin your day type venom or a ARRGH MY FACE?


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

Tone said:


> I'm definantely going to look into, I'm used to having large lizards around and also lizards which if they bite cause some damage. (although not venomous, still painful)
> 
> What's the best way of finding a breeder?


I breed beaded lizards and next year i should do gilas as well(cinctums).


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

Jenface said:


> How venomous are these guys and how does their venom work?
> 
> Is it just a I might ruin your day type venom or a ARRGH MY FACE?


The venom is produced in the top jaw and injected through their teeth by chewing, the can "flip over /twist" this is belived to help them dispense the venom quicker. The venom is neurotoxin

I have heard not many people have died from bites something like 6 in the last 100 years (someone please inform me if I'm wrong). But if you are bitten you would wish you were dead its ment to be that painful.


Here's a quote about the them-
I have never been called to attend a case of Gila monster bite, and I don't want to be. I think a man who is fool enough to get bitten by a Gila monster ought to die. The creature is so sluggish and slow of movement that the victim of its bite is compelled to help largely in order to get bitten.	”
—Dr. Ward, Arizona Graphic, September 23, 1899


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## Jenface (Apr 8, 2012)

hahah Dr Ward sounds awesome.


So how would the neurotoxin affect the body? Does it start shutting down organs and stuff?
Are Gilas handleable with caution? 

They are kinda cute. Look at this little face


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> The venom is produced in the top jaw and injected through their teeth by chewing, the can "flip over /twist" this is belived to help them dispense the venom quicker. The venom is neurotoxin


The venom glands are in the lower jaw, not the top. The venom contains neurotoxins (some really cool ones) but shouldn't be described as a 'neurotoxin', that does a disservice to the lizards which produce a diverse range of toxins. The venom also contains toxins which cause changes in blood pressure and blood sugar levels, toxins that interfere with cell structure and many more.

David.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

DavidR said:


> The venom glands are in the lower jaw, not the top. The venom contains neurotoxins (some really cool ones) but shouldn't be described as a 'neurotoxin', that does a disservice to the lizards which produce a diverse range of toxins. The venom also contains toxins which cause changes in blood pressure and blood sugar levels, toxins that interfere with cell structure and many more.
> 
> David.


Ah I seem to of been misinformed during my reasearch, I think I will have to dig deeper with some of my findings, thanks for that David I'm all about getting the correct information, I'm still an Amature with my "hots"( in the reasearch stage )

A quick one for you David Is it true that their venom is as "strong" as a coral snake, in a round about way as they do not deliver the same amount ?

Sorry I have misinformed you jenface


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## Tone (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm going to go and find out today how much a DWA is in my County, and then go and pop over to Wrigglies and have a chat with them as they had one in a few months back.

Also near Mark Amey who does work with the councils for DWAs so will seak to him...so much research but so exciting. 

Now just to tell my other half :lol2:


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> A quick one for you David Is it true that their venom is as "strong" as a coral snake, in a round about way as they do not deliver the same amount ?


Not to worry, it is just a pet hate of mine to see complex venoms described as 'a neurotoxin' or 'a haemotoxin'. It is like saying 'Leonardo da Vinci dabbled in art' and massively over simplifies the huge diversity and complexity of reptile venoms.

It is a difficult question to answer because the only way of comparing venoms is the murine LD50, which is not particularly useful. I had a quick look for LD50 values for _Heloderma_ and _Aspidelaps_ venoms and they seem to be of the same sort of order of magnitude (0.5-1mg/kg) but this is only really relevant if you are a lab mouse. Neither heloderms or coral cobras are particularly likely to kill you, but both are certainly capable of delivering a medically significant envenoming. 

David.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

DavidR said:


> Not to worry, it is just a pet hate of mine to see complex venoms described as 'a neurotoxin' or 'a haemotoxin'. It is like saying 'Leonardo da Vinci dabbled in art' and massively over simplifies the huge diversity and complexity of reptile venoms.
> 
> It is a difficult question to answer because the only way of comparing venoms is the murine LD50, which is not particularly useful. I had a quick look for LD50 values for _Heloderma_ and _Aspidelaps_ venoms and they seem to be of the same sort of order of magnitude (0.5-1mg/kg) but this is only really relevant if you are a lab mouse. Neither heloderms or coral cobras are particularly likely to kill you, but both are certainly capable of delivering a medically significant envenoming.
> 
> David.


Ah I see what you mean about the comparisons that I have read about, and what you mean about the "pet" hate of yours. I'm guessing nearly every venom in different species have a large number of differences in how it is made up? A bit like how we as people have such a viarity of DNA 

I have to ask David as I have seen you write very informative replays in most replys where do you get your reasearch from ? It must be a very interesting read, once the terminology is understood


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> Ah I see what you mean about the comparisons that I have read about, and what you mean about the "pet" hate of yours. I'm guessing nearly every venom in different species have a large number of differences in how it is made up? A bit like how we as people have such a viarity of DNA


Reptile venoms are generally composed of many tens of different compounds, these vary between families, genera, species, sexes, ages and in the same individual over time. 



> I have to ask David as I have seen you write very informative replays in most replys where do you get your reasearch from ? It must be a very interesting read, once the terminology is understood


Thanks very much. It is a subject I have been interested in for quite a while. I would suggest reading anything and everything (except the majority of forums) if you want to get your head around reptile toxinology. There is no one source that I would recommend over others.

David.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

DavidR said:


> Reptile venoms are generally composed of many tens of different compounds, these vary between families, genera, species, sexes, ages and in the same individual over time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I shall be hitting the net and books this weekend, thanks David


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