# Pro or Anti?



## Connie_F

Ms Elaine Toland did not care to attend our event, despite a personal invitation by Chris Newman. Instead we had a few extremely suspicious acting visitors, asking the most dubious questions and hiding a camera in their bag (couple in picture 4) – does anyone know these people?

The idea is to build up a portfolio of our APA friends and all other clubs/societies can add pictures of anyone suspicious at their events.

So – are these reptile keepers or not? Please keep your replies civil and to the point.

(Sorry Penfold – you beat me to it!)

Connie, on behalf of
Chris Newman


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## MJ75

What a cheery looking bunch eh?


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## Dave-Flames

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/atta...4167100-pro-anti-apa_2009-09-273_4-large-.jpg

this guy looks like a suicide bomber..


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## Caz

penfold said:


> is no 3 mat rendles dad


No - thats the Harold Bishop lookylikey I mentioned on the other thread. He was definately 'with' older woman (pic1/2) but pretending not to be. I believe he had a camera in his rucksack that he was carrying. 'Tried for a beard' lad had a camera lense disguised as a badge on his rucksack and the girl in pic 3 was either taking pics with her samsung phone or had a camera in her bag as it kept being swung bizarrely around.
Good job they don't work for MI5 eh :lol2:


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## billy james

Im 90% certain pic 3 is a amphibian keeper who has brought phibs of me before if not a good lookalike.


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## billy james

pic 3 i mean


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## Meko

bloke in pic 4 has to be an anti. No normal bloke in their right mind would wear that jumper.


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## hogboy

Meko said:


> bloke in pic 4 has to be an anti. No normal bloke in their right mind would wear that jumper.


Crustie all the way :lol2:


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## KING_GONZO

well there defo odd looking people:hmm:. how did you spot the hidden camera?????


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## DazedLewis

why is the woman in 1 and 2 posing for you? loll


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## htf666

Were the people caught with cameras thrown out,? and if not, why?Harry


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## Malti

htf666 said:


> Were the people caught with cameras thrown out,? and if not, why?Harry


is it illegal to take pics at the rep shows?


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## DazedLewis

Malti said:


> is it illegal to take pics at the rep shows?


hahaha, if they had just had a camera out taking pics of things then no one would have batted an eyelid at them.


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## Malti

DazedLewis said:


> hahaha, if they had just had a camera out taking pics of things then no one would have batted an eyelid at them.



yep thats what happens when u have wannabe spies...


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## SWMorelia

Kill them and put their heads on poles.......
Not polish people I may add....
Just regular poles....
I phoned Elain, BTW...... She's not the most cheery person to question....
She doesn't like anyone IMO....


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## arkreptiles

The ginger haired lady was the one that asked us if all our leo's were captive bred!! Nick kindly pointed to the signs on the front of our table saying "all our animals are captive bred" dohhhh:bash:


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## Malti

SW-morelia said:


> Kill them and put their heads on poles.......
> Not polish people I may add....
> Just regular poles....
> I phoned Elain, BTW...... She's not the most cheery person to question....
> She doesn't like anyone IMO....


she needs a battery operated friend


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## SWMorelia

Malti said:


> she needs a battery operated friend


 Unless it's 240v and bare wires.... I would say it's not man enough.....


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## reptile_man_08

DazedLewis said:


> hahaha, if they had just had a camera out taking pics of things then no one would have batted an eyelid at them.


I asked, I wasn't allowed.
I second the guy in pic 4 looks like a bomber..
The guy in the 3rd pic looks like a relative of Henry Piorun:lol2:


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## kato

I got knocked over at the Show and luckily I landed on someone - that someone had a small Video Camera(not Mobile Phone) hidden just up his sleeve but it was none of those in the photo. But he did talk to the posing woman covertly. To be honest it was such a good show as regards to reptiles that it would'nt hurt for them to show what they recorded.

I to think that the lad in picture four looks like a suicide bomber. I saw him at the show and thought to myself "my, he looks like a suicide bomber". He was acting very very strange. I know that most Reptile Folk at Shows act strange, but he was acting in a strangerer way which got me suspicious. He did not know what the Crickets were for at the Show and thought they were being sold as pets!!!! The Stall Holder that he spoke to(small room in the middle nest of tables) did not really notice what this plonker had said, but it set alarms ringing in my head. The girl with the suicide bomber was outside when I was there and spoke into a dictaphone thing. She did this when the Newspaper Reporter Interviewed and took photos of the dark haired lad with a stripey top who had a stall in the big hall in one of the centre nests of tables in the first aisle.

I'm not nosey - honest.


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## Dave-Flames

kato said:


> I got knocked over at the Show and luckily I landed on someone - that someone had a small Video Camera(not Mobile Phone) hidden just up his sleeve but it was none of those in the photo. But he did talk to the posing woman covertly. To be honest it was such a good show as regards to reptiles that it would'nt hurt for them to show what they recorded.
> 
> I to think that the lad in picture four looks like a suicide bomber. I saw him at the show and thought to myself "my, he looks like a suicide bomber". He was acting very very strange. I know that most Reptile Folk at Shows act strange, but he was acting in a strangerer way which got me suspicious. He did not know what the Crickets were for at the Show and thought they were being sold as pets!!!! The Stall Holder that he spoke to(small room in the middle nest of tables) did not really notice what this plonker had said, but it set alarms ringing in my head. The girl with the suicide bomber was outside when I was there and spoke into a dictaphone thing. She did this when the Newspaper Reporter Interviewed and took photos of the dark haired lad with a stripey top who had a stall in the big hall in one of the centre nests of tables in the first aisle.
> 
> I'm not nosey - honest.


Your like a stealth ninja


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## naz_pixie

the redhead looks exactly like a girl that went to my uni, i have her detials somwhere.. she left last year, (i say left, she disapeared randomly, moved out in the middle of the night haveing not paid her bills lol but has since got back in touch with a few people).. there is a possiblity the girl i am thinking of has since then got involved with anti's, she was a vegan and very into animal rights... it may well not be her atall.. but i can have a dig around and see what shes upto these days...

if there is a face on picture of her i could say wheather it was deffinatly her or not...


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## Molly75

Ginger haired woman came to ask questions twice she got a reply she was not expecting LOL.

She asked if any snakes ate live before that she said she knew nothing about snakes DOH!!!

came back and asked if she bought 2 would she get a discount i asked her if she had space and im[lied she might be impluse buying as my friend was in no hurry to sell his hatchlings  

She also seemed to be following people she popped up 4 times behind me whilst I was walking around and I'm sure she heard me say I think she's an anti  

Paula


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## rum&coke

If animal rights people was taking pictures I think its a bit of a worry really, Think about all the animal rights people who break into labs and set lab animals free, hunt saboutors etc etc 
It would worry me that they maybe making profiles of breeders and there stock with break ins in mind ,crazy bunch animal rights people


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## Dextersdad

Psychos get uglier by the day.


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## MJ75

rum&coke said:


> If animal rights people was taking pictures I think its a bit of a worry really, Think about all the animal rights people who break into labs and set lab animals free, hunt saboutors etc etc
> It would worry me that they maybe making profiles of breeders and there stock with break ins in mind ,crazy bunch animal rights people


Yeah they all look really scary. I'd be terrified if the two tiny women confronted me looking for a brawl! :lol2:

The fat bloke looks handy. Still, you could always toss him a pie and leg it. I doubt he'd be able to catch you.


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## Issa

I'm sure I've seen the young ginger thing somewhere before.......


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## Dave-Flames

Issa said:


> I'm sure I've seen the young ginger thing somewhere before.......


 
did you sleep with her?


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## Issa

Dave-Flames said:


> did you sleep with her?


Nah, never knobbed a ginger in my life.


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## Steve L

they look like some sort of council officials to me .be wary of insults here we do not want any more bad press do we?(the first 2 that is)


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## Dextersdad

Issa said:


> Nah, never knobbed a ginger in my life.


I recommend it. 

Mine was the fist and completely changed my outlook.


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## rachel132002

The ginger girl only said "awww aren't they sweet" when i was selling my last corn snake but i think she may have been around earlier when someone who was buying a corn asked if it fed live or dead and i said all of them feed on defrost so no doubt Ms. AR will be disappointed i didn't say how they liked live only and preferred them with extra stress incurred prior to feeding lol.

I just look at it as no matter how much of a pain they are, we may as well play nice, gives them less fuel for their fire.


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## Malti

Dextersdad said:


> I recommend it.
> 
> Mine was the *fist* and completely changed my outlook.


actually if she was the fist...she changed your backdoor not outlook :lol2:


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## 9Red

Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?

My OH is a guard and says that he and several others would be willing to volunteer to help at shows in the future in uniform if it would be any help.

I also had an idea when flicking through this months' PRK mag and came across the review of the daytona expo in USA. There the organisers advertise the event as a 'conference' and run a series of lectures and demos throughout the day in one area/room at the venue, while a sale/show goes on in another. If we organised future shows in a similar way we could avoid the issue the antis use in trying to get them cancelled by claiming they are 'illegal' animal markets rather than breeders meetings. 

Then they would simply be 'Herpetology Conferences' run by societies and clubs that also happen to include breeders bringing along livestock for trade with other members. Would also be a really good way of sharing information through guest lectures from vets, FBH reps, pro keepers, conservationists etc.

What do people think - good idea?


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## DRAGONLOVER1981

9Red said:


> Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?
> 
> My OH is a guard and says that he and several others would be willing to volunteer to help at shows in the future in uniform if it would be any help.
> 
> I also had an idea when flicking through this months' PRK mag and came across the review of the daytona expo in USA. There the organisers advertise the event as a 'conference' and run a series of lectures and demos throughout the day in one area/room at the venue, while a sale/show goes on in another. If we organised future shows in a similar way we could avoid the issue the antis use in trying to get them cancelled by claiming they are 'illegal' animal markets rather than breeders meetings.
> 
> Then they would simply be 'Herpetology Conferences' run by societies and clubs that also happen to include breeders bringing along livestock for trade with other members. Would also be a really good way of sharing information through guest lectures from vets, FBH reps, pro keepers, conservationists etc.
> 
> What do people think - good idea?


 sounds like a good idea just depends on the organisers themselves tho


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## DRAGONLOVER1981

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/386689-what.html
check this link out its just a thought i had


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## MJ75

9Red said:


> Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?


No offence. But I think the idea of having security guards would be an extremely bad one for several different reasons. After all, what can they do or achieve other than make the show look "dodgy".

Shows are all above board. Let the antis in and take their pictures. What do we have to hide after all?


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## connor 1213

what does the future of reptile keeping look like 

i recognize his face in pic 3 :hmm:


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## Caz

MJ75 said:


> No offence. But I think the idea of having security guards would be an extremely bad one for several different reasons. After all, what can they do or achieve other than make the show look "dodgy".
> 
> Shows are all above board. Let the antis in and take their pictures. What do we have to hide after all?


They could legally search everyone coming in. Bang goes their 'covert' :lol2: cameras.


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## HABU




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## Pete Q

I think these people should be challenged at shows, anyone asking silly questions should be made to feel at the very least uncomfortable. Once reported, followed them, and even ask why they are there. Did I see someone say there was a hidden camera ? why was this person not reported and asked to leave ?


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## Malti

MJ75 said:


> No offence. But I think the idea of having security guards would be an extremely bad one for several different reasons. After all, what can they do or achieve other than make the show look "dodgy".
> 
> Shows are all above board. Let the antis in and take their pictures. What do we have to hide after all?



Actually security in big venues is always welcome - fights might break up (and I'm not talking about breeders, but members of the public as everyone goes in), and what about thefts? heard too much thefts of reps on here, they could keep an extra eye out.


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## Malti

Pete Q said:


> I think these people should be challenged at shows, anyone asking silly questions should be made to feel at the very least uncomfortable. Once reported, followed them, and even ask why they are there. Did I see someone say there was a hidden camera ? why was this person not reported and asked to leave ?



I don't agree with you...noobs may ask silly questions at first (I did before I researched), and that might deter them. 

And whats the fuss of the cameras? As people are saying all was in order with the reps kept at their best, so there should be nothing to hide - after all its an open venue.


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## incrisis

9Red said:


> Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?


There was at our show.

We also had the local police wandering around.


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## SleepyD

incrisis said:


> There was at our show.
> 
> We also had the local police wandering around.


and very nice they were too : victory:


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## Horsfield

incrisis said:


> There was at our show.
> 
> We also had the local police wandering around.


One of the local police also made a purchase, A snake


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## MJ75

Malti said:


> Actually security in big venues is always welcome - fights might break up (and I'm not talking about breeders, but members of the public as everyone goes in), and what about thefts? heard too much thefts of reps on here, they could keep an extra eye out.


Do they keep their eyes on the tea leaves or the dreaded camera toting anti's? Maybe one to debate over a pint when you're over here eh?


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## MJ75

Horsfield said:


> One of the local police also made a purchase, A snake


 
Not really surprising. I know of at least two coppers posting on here.


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## Malti

MJ75 said:


> Do they keep their eyes on the tea leaves or the dreaded camera toting anti's? Maybe one to debate over a pint when you're over here eh?



well thats an offer I can't refuse


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## Malti

MJ75 said:


> Not really surprising. I know of at least two coppers posting on here.



is that bacon I smell? :whistling2:


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## Utter Nutter

9Red said:


> Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?
> 
> My OH is a guard and says that he and several others would be willing to volunteer to help at shows in the future in uniform if it would be any help.
> 
> I also had an idea when flicking through this months' PRK mag and came across the review of the daytona expo in USA. There the organisers advertise the event as a 'conference' and run a series of lectures and demos throughout the day in one area/room at the venue, while a sale/show goes on in another. If we organised future shows in a similar way we could avoid the issue the antis use in trying to get them cancelled by claiming they are 'illegal' animal markets rather than breeders meetings.
> 
> Then they would simply be 'Herpetology Conferences' run by societies and clubs that also happen to include breeders bringing along livestock for trade with other members. Would also be a really good way of sharing information through guest lectures from vets, FBH reps, pro keepers, conservationists etc.
> 
> What do people think - good idea?


I was there with my SIA badge! I was by no means there in an official capacity but my badge does give me thr right to use reasonable force to remove someone if I am asked to do so. I did post this in one of the other threads before the show in case anyone wanted to take me up on the offer. Thankfully it was not needed, all went rather swimmingly really!


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## kato

HABU said:


> imageimage


Now that is one fugly bunny!



incrisis said:


> There was at our show.
> 
> We also had the local police wandering around.


Adie does not count!!!!!:whistling2: Unless you mean insecurity.


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## wohic

kato said:


> Now that is one fugly bunny!



aww i kinda like it.
habu that pic is sooo bloody brill i pinched it for my avatar


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## eco_tonto

wohic....... i love your avatar, that will keep a smile on my face for a fair old while, and fair play habu, some sharp photoshop skills, keep up the good work!


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## Issa

HABU said:


> imageimage


Now that is class!! If your taking requests do one of Elaine Toland crossed with Jabba the Hutt........


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## HABU




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## DazedLewis

9Red said:


> Out of interest was there any kind of 'real' security at this or any of the other shows, by which I mean SIA approved security guards or similar?
> 
> My OH is a guard and says that he and several others would be willing to volunteer to help at shows in the future in uniform if it would be any help.
> 
> I also had an idea when flicking through this months' PRK mag and came across the review of the daytona expo in USA. There the organisers advertise the event as a 'conference' and run a series of lectures and demos throughout the day in one area/room at the venue, while a sale/show goes on in another. If we organised future shows in a similar way we could avoid the issue the antis use in trying to get them cancelled by claiming they are 'illegal' animal markets rather than breeders meetings.
> 
> Then they would simply be 'Herpetology Conferences' run by societies and clubs that also happen to include breeders bringing along livestock for trade with other members. Would also be a really good way of sharing information through guest lectures from vets, FBH reps, pro keepers, conservationists etc.
> 
> What do people think - good idea?


I think there are some very interesting ideas here :2thumb: hope they reach the relevant people...


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## HABU




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## Dave-Flames

HABU said:


> image


 
now thats sexy!:mf_dribble:


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## 0000matt0000

they are on facebook theres only 23 members lol with pictures


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## Steve L

0000matt0000 said:


> they are on facebook theres only 23 members lol with pictures


??????


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## HS

> I also had an idea when flicking through this months' PRK mag and came across the review of the daytona expo in USA. There the organisers advertise the event as a 'conference' and run a series of lectures and demos throughout the day in one area/room at the venue, while a sale/show goes on in another. If we organised future shows in a similar way we could avoid the issue the antis use in trying to get them cancelled by claiming they are 'illegal' animal markets rather than breeders meetings.
> 
> Then they would simply be 'Herpetology Conferences' run by societies and clubs that also happen to include breeders bringing along livestock for trade with other members. Would also be a really good way of sharing information through guest lectures from vets, FBH reps, pro keepers, conservationists etc.


Something similar is already on the agenda, at least it is for the Maidstone Shows.:thumb:


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## 0000matt0000

apa lot are on facebook maybe you could match up ppl with who were at the show just an idea if u want to name n shame ppl


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## MJ75

0000matt0000 said:


> they are on facebook theres only 23 members lol with pictures


I think that number may have grown by the end of the day.


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## Steve L

0000matt0000 said:


> apa lot are on facebook maybe you could match up ppl with who were at the show just an idea if u want to name n shame ppl


 have you got a link?


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## Connie_F

MJ75 said:


> I think that number may have grown by the end of the day.


Looking forward to it


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## HABU




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## MJ75

Steve L said:


> have you got a link?


Just log in and do a search. 

Interesting how the group is maintained by a South African.


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## Steve L

it gives me loads ! a direct link would be appreciated


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## 0000matt0000

just search animal protection agency


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## 0000matt0000

it comes up with 3 search results


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## Connie_F

HABU said:


> image


Habu, this pic was taken in front of a class room - might be an idea to take 'Ms L Brown, Team Leader' out in the background!


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## MJ75

0000matt0000 said:


> it comes up with 3 search results


One official, one unofficaial and one unrelated.


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## Ozgi

I agree that talks and presentations would be a very good idea. It would be very informative to the reptile keepers that go to these shows and would also prevent the anti's from calling them animal markets!

The BTS shows have guest speakers and presentations and they are always very popular.

Habu those pics are brilliant! Keep them coming!


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## HABU

Connie_F said:


> Habu, this pic was taken in front of a class room - might be an idea to take 'Ms L Brown, Team Leader' out in the background!


 
she looks good there...


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## shep1979

i ant find them on facebook we need a link


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## HABU

Ozgi said:


> I agree that talks and presentations would be a very good idea. It would be very informative to the reptile keepers that go to these shows and would also prevent the anti's from calling them animal markets!
> 
> The BTS shows have guest speakers and presentations and they are always very popular.
> 
> *Habu those pics are brilliant! Keep them coming*!


 
i can do goofy stuff with any pic... those on line generators have some funny stuff... they feed my twisted mind...


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## shep1979

HABU said:


> i can do goofy stuff with any pic... those on line generators have some funny stuff... they feed my twisted mind...


we need one of the #1 woman herself habu


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## Crownan

Login | Facebook

The APA on Facebook...


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## Steve L

a very small group .i bet the reptile orgs could make them look quite small 
are there any groups?


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## HABU

shep1979 said:


> we need one of the #1 woman herself habu


 
post the pic... let me tinker with it...:gasp:


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## shep1979

thats her


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## Natrix

HABU said:


> post the pic... let me tinker with it...:gasp:


Brilliant Habu

How about one of her visiting a reptile show dressed up in a full body bio hazard suit, That would be funny.

Oh hang on minute I think she has already posed for that one her self:lol2:

Natrix


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## fishboy

Natrix said:


> Brilliant Habu
> 
> How about one of her visiting a reptile show dressed up in a full body bio hazard suit, That would be funny.
> 
> Oh hang on minute I think she has already posed for that one her self:lol2:
> 
> Natrix
> 
> image



Wow! What a nut-job! :lol2:


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## fishboy




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## hogboy

Crownan said:


> Login | Facebook
> 
> The APA on Facebook...


Wonder if they'll let me join -)


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## Captainmatt29

fishboy said:


> image


Haha stupid mare !


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## connor 1213

Serious ? | Facebook


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## hogboy

connor 1213 said:


> Serious ? | Facebook


Thats my post -)
They're so passionate about their beliefs that i've not seen a response in 24 hours !!!
Why not join the group, and post your own comments -)


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## Pete Q

hogboy said:


> Thats my post -)
> They're so passionate about their beliefs that i've not seen a response in 24 hours !!!
> Why not join the group, and post your own comments -)


First time I've looked at face book, how do you join the group ?


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## hogboy

Pete Q said:


> First time I've looked at face book, how do you join the group ?


Just click 'join this group' -)


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## Malti

Pete Q said:


> First time I've looked at face book, how do you join the group ?



you have to be ravaged by 10 bulls...


or sign up and then click join


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## Straight-Up

What a grim set off people they are :gasp:



Malti said:


> *you have to be ravaged by 10 bulls...*
> 
> 
> or sign up and then click join


Yes, but first they'll ask if your bulls are captive bred :whistling2:


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## Malti

Straight-Up said:


> Yes, but first they'll ask if your bulls are captive bred :whistling2:



mine are WC from the farm! :gasp::gasp:


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## Pete Q

hogboy said:


> Thats my post -)
> They're so passionate about their beliefs that i've not seen a response in 24 hours !!!
> Why not join the group, and post your own comments -)


Think I've posted something, can't see it.


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## Straight-Up

Malti said:


> mine are WC from the farm! :gasp::gasp:


Then prepare to suffer the paddington bear stare the woman is doing in picture two :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Malti

Straight-Up said:


> Then prepare to suffer the paddington bear stare the woman is doing in picture two :Na_Na_Na_Na:



me iz scared! 



:lol2:


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## hogboy

Pete Q said:


> Think I've posted something, can't see it.


 
If you're Bruce lee, its there -)


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