# Draco Volans : Need alot of help



## TFMANIAC (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi my name is Ben.
I live in Asia
This here would be my first experience with any reptile. I've had a few Newts and frogs before.

Here's what happened.
I was sitting on the porch early this month and a male Draco Volans landed on the ground. I was delighted..
I grabbed him and put him into a large acrylic tank.
with lots of branches. 
A week later I caught a female that was trapped on the cloths that were out to dry..
the moment I popped her into the tank with the male... he started displaying and mated with her later that week.

I'm having trouble finding food and making sure that they eat it.
i've seen them eat ants.. but those mealworm beetles don't seem to be attracting them at all.

I'm afraid they may be starving. Is force feeding an option?

the female is in the process of moulting. She has not eaten anything in a week. I'm not sure if that is normal.

here are some pictures.




























Any help in caring for them would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

My advice is let them go, if you cannot care for them properly and they are not doing well (i.e. not even eating) then they are clearly better off where they belong... in the wild.


----------



## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

They are going to be highly stressed. If you want to keep them in captivity after taking them from the wild you need to create a large natural environment. I can't see the exact size of the tank - but make it large, at least 4 x 2 x 4 foot, bigger would be better though.

You need to make sure you have UVB inside the tank and the correct humidity / temperature level. Although you live in the country they come from, your tank is such a small area, it is not going to be giving the right microclimate unless you set up the heating and lighting correctly, and you may even need a fan to cool it down depending on what your ambient temperature is. In the wild, they can move on a hot day to a damp cave.. they can hide in the shade, they can go up high, or low, as the humidity / temperatures change. In a small tank, they can't do this. You have to be 100% sure that you are providing an environment in which they have a choice of hot, cold, damp, dry, height, exactly as if they were still in the wild.

You need to keep handling to a minimum and avoid stress. Coming from the wild you can guarantee that they have a heavy parasite load. This is natural in the wild. In the wild, they poop - and they move away. They do not become reinfested with their own parasites. In a tank, they cannot move away from their own faeces, the parasites will reinfest every time they go to the bathroom, resulting in a huge parasite burden that kills. You need to get them treated with an anti parasite if you are going to keep them in captivity.

If they continue to refuse to eat, let them go. This is a hard species to care for in captivity and is highly prone to stress.


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Erm...



...You have. my friend, taken them directly from their happy wild habitat and placed them in your container thus making them very unhappy.

Read the warning signs (and the posts before this one) and LET THEM GO!


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

no law against local wild catching and he obviously wants to do right by them..if he gets the job done right then he has some cb babies to coem doesnt he?

Did you say they will eat ants? can you not offer plenty of ants?

It may very well be worth lettin the male go if you only have the one tank mind.


----------



## dragon123 (Apr 3, 2008)

Dextersdad said:


> Erm...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i completely agree with you mate you cant just take them from there natural enviroment if you havent even got any experience


----------



## dragon123 (Apr 3, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> no law against local wild catching and he obviously wants to do right by them..if he gets the job done right then he has some cb babies to coem doesnt he?
> 
> Did you say they will eat ants? can you not offer plenty of ants?
> 
> It may very well be worth lettin the male go if you only have the one tank mind.


there is no law against it but i dont agree with what your saying lizards arent just about being able to breed them,
ok yes we do get a lot of wild caughts in the trade but at least their owners know what they are doing, this guy has had a frog and a newt that is not enough experience...and just cos it isnt against the law doesnt mean that its right.


----------



## serz (May 8, 2006)

Let them go back into the wild. They will be highly stressed with you capturing them and putting them into captivity when they are wild. 
Do the right thing and let them go


----------



## todds_out (Aug 29, 2007)

I have read that these guys are very difficult to keep alive. They may look funky but they're not for anyone who just simply wants a pet lizard.
Like a lot of reps that need huge amounts of space I don't believe they should be kept in captivity unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Ben,

Although most lizards can do well in captivity, I am afraid none of the _Draco_ species do. They really only eat ants. Even zoos find _Draco_ lizards difficult if not impossible to keep.

I am all in favour of lizard keeping, but I think this is one case where you ought to release the two lizards.

If you find another species (non-_Draco_) that you would be interested in keeping, I am sure we will be happy to help you as much as we can.

Best wishes,


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

dragon123 said:


> i completely agree with you mate you cant just take them from there natural enviroment if you havent even got any experience


Cheers mate: victory:


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Cyberlizard said:


> Hi Ben,
> 
> Although most lizards can do well in captivity, I am afraid none of the _Draco_ species do. They really only eat ants. Even zoos find _Draco_ lizards difficult if not impossible to keep.
> 
> ...


Very constructive. Good job.

:beer8::yeahright:


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Not kept in captivity unless absolutely necesary?
when is that then? 
if you mean only if the species survival depends on it then ok.

Seen as how the author hasnt been back i feel im prolyl wasting my time anyway but being oposed to the keeping of the species because you cant advise on where the author may be going wrong is a tad stubborn.


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> Not kept in captivity unless absolutely necesary?
> when is that then?
> if you mean only if the species survival depends on it then ok.
> 
> Seen as how the author hasnt been back i feel im prolyl wasting my time anyway but being oposed to the keeping of the species because you cant advise on where the author may be going wrong is a tad stubborn.


It sounds, and keep with me here...That the author was just a chancer. I mean, that is in the top echelon of herps to keep. Very touch.


I hope he let them go.

Word


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

dragon123 said:


> there is no law against it but i dont agree with what your saying lizards arent just about being able to breed them,
> ok yes we do get a lot of wild caughts in the trade but at least their owners know what they are doing, this guy has had a frog and a newt that is not enough experience...and just cos it isnt against the law doesnt mean that its right.


I wasnt saying keeping lizards is all about breeding them... 
Of course just cos soemthing isnt against the law doesnt make it right...
however it doesnt make it wrong either...and the bloke is just asking for help to infact, keep them alive.

I gather the author has had them atleast a fair while? or i might be wrong, will check first post again in a sec...

Anyway, the lizard [female] is no doubt stressed being in close quarters with a male that has already had his way with her... they 100% need seperating, they 100% need a larger enclosure for each of them, let alone together.
And if you do keep it with you...and its health deteorates you have to be responsible to seek vet treatment for it..rather than say...letting it go whilst injured/ill... if you are not willing to do that then yes let them go.
If you plan to learn and feel able to care for them [seeking advice is fair] then that will include the above-mentioned larger vivarium, and as athravan mentioned in her post...the necesary uvb lighting etc.


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

f:censor:k it this guy's just messed up.

Let them go!


----------



## dragon123 (Apr 3, 2008)

DeanThorpe said:


> I wasnt saying keeping lizards is all about breeding them...
> Of course just cos soemthing isnt against the law doesnt make it right...
> however it doesnt make it wrong either...and the bloke is just asking for help to infact, keep them alive.
> 
> ...


ok yeah i agree with most of that but i still think that this indian guy has taken a lizard that is too hard to care for as a learner, i mean how many people in this country buy a draco volans as there first lizard :lol2: its madness i think he should buy a CB one in india thats easier to keep 

im sure leopard geckos would be easier and easy to get


----------



## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

dragon123 said:


> ok yeah i agree with most of that but i still think that this indian guy has taken a lizard that is too hard to care for as a learner, i mean how many people in this country buy a draco volans as there first lizard :lol2: its madness i think he should buy a CB one in india thats easier to keep
> 
> im sure leopard geckos would be easier and easy to get


I'm with you on that


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

At the end of the day the biggest stumbling block to *anyone* trying to keep _Draco_ in captivity is the ant problem, which applies to some other species as well. It's not just a question of providing formic acid as the prey items need to be very small. From reports by some naturalists it seems also that the lizards just seem to sit by an ant trail (on a branch, I think) and lap them up as they march past. Crickets don't exhibit that sort of "troop" mentality and I'm guessing that _Draco_ might be a bit baffled by them.

I would encourage Ben to release them and find another species, one that can be kept in captivity.


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Cyberlizard said:


> At the end of the day the biggest stumbling block to *anyone* trying to keep _Draco_ in captivity is the ant problem, which applies to some other species as well. It's not just a question of providing formic acid as the prey items need to be very small. From reports by some naturalists it seems also that the lizards just seem to sit by an ant trail (on a branch, I think) and lap them up as they march past. Crickets don't exhibit that sort of "troop" mentality and I'm guessing that _Draco_ might be a bit baffled by them.
> 
> I would encourage Ben to release them and find another species, one that can be kept in captivity.



I think your getting lizards confuesed mate. I've never heard of draco's being a primaly ant feeder. I also know individuals in the UK who now have breading colonys of the D. Volvan feeding happly on crickets. Although fresh WC's are very hard to establish but it can be done. A large live plated viv, with air movement (fan assisted) so that you create a sort of up current. ie one in the bottom right and one in top left. Then they tend to be happy. 
However, there are 2 very unusal interna parasates that can live in these guys and cause alot of problems, the name escapes me now but when i think of it i'll post it. 

But they are an advanced lizard and not somthing for the novice to attempt, as not done right they will not survive. In a year or so i wish to have a colony of these guys once i can source enougth CB ones as currently i can only get a few. 

To the poster, unless you have the room to create a larger viv, heated, with a 10% UVb tube, with air movement then in a few weeks/months these guys will slowly die on you im affriad. I know you want to do your best, and in this situation i think the best is to let them go. They are n advanced lizard.

jay


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

I have heard that dracos eat a lot of ants too actually dude [in the wild]

So you can get some cb volans?
are you going to get what you can and build up? or wait to find a source with a load at once?


----------



## TFMANIAC (Apr 18, 2008)

Sorry I took some time to get back here.
Thanks to all those who have given me some vital information..
I have decided to set them free.
They would be much happier in the wild anyway.
Please don't get me wrong.. I never intended to keep them for the Breeding=cash reason. I felt they looked cool.

once again thank you.


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Ben,

Well done for making that decision. I hope nobody here thinks bad of you. Like I said, if you want any advice on any other lizards, please come on here again and we'll do our best to help.

Best wishes


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Jay,

Where did you hear of _Draco _doing OK on crickets? I am not saying you are wrong, I would simply like to know of your sources. All the authorities I have read are pretty adamant that they are primarily if not overwhelmingly ant eaters.

Cheers


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

TFMANIAC said:


> Sorry I took some time to get back here.
> Thanks to all those who have given me some vital information..
> I have decided to set them free.
> They would be much happier in the wild anyway.
> ...


good job mate.
They are totally awesome lizards indeed...but not the easiest to keep as said.
However with the correct research and devotion... you COULD keep them. [larger viv and all the correct equipment etc]


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Cyberlizard said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> Where did you hear of _Draco _doing OK on crickets? I am not saying you are wrong, I would simply like to know of your sources. All the authorities I have read are pretty adamant that they are primarily if not overwhelmingly ant eaters.
> 
> Cheers


A couple of friends of mine who keep them and the breader i know of tho for reasons unknown one of my friends has had all of his colony (3.8) die within days of each other not long ago. Im pritty sure the breading colony are not supplimented at all and have been breading for the last 2 years. This is except for the usual neutrolbol and calcium supliments. 

Its the same as the Texas horned lizards, they can do very well on a suplimented cricket diet so long as they are well and truly dewormed and parasite free, they can surive happly on a cricket diet. I know of a colony 1.2 and another all male (3.0) colony both being kept the same. The first colony are now coming up to 5 yrs in capativity now, the second nearly 2 years. I also know of a shop that gets them in alot, and since he has started making sure they are dewormed and totally parasite free the second he gets them he hasnt had one die on him, which impressed me. Before he did this he would lose alot more. 

The reoccuring theme seems to be that so long as you get them parasite and worm free they surrivie alot longer on a cricket diet. Im not sure why this is so dont ask, just seems to be the general theme. But when i get more settled i want to try and find out.


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

That's very interesting. If this is the case, maybe it is the case that some _Draco_ species are more adaptive than others, in the same way as the _Phrynosoma _species are. 

I think this is one area where we still know very little - hence my normal views on ant-eating lizards. But who knows what the future will bring?


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Cyberlizard said:


> That's very interesting. If this is the case, maybe it is the case that some _Draco_ species are more adaptive than others, in the same way as the _Phrynosoma _species are.
> 
> I think this is one area where we still know very little - hence my normal views on ant-eating lizards. But who knows what the future will bring?


yer there need to be alot more research and keeping done in the area. Those that are succesful need to make their finidng known. But presently very few do, for reasons i dont understand. If and when i get a colony of D. Volvans i want to document everything so that i can learn from my own mistake as can others.


----------



## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

Well if it works out for you and you manage to maintain _D. volans _successfully in captivity, then you should get the kudos you deserve!

The German herp society encourage people to record their results by giving 3 prizes each year for successful captive breeding (and I'm sure they check the claims rigorously!). I think that's a good idea as the keeper gets peer recognition.


----------



## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Cyberlizard said:


> Well if it works out for you and you manage to maintain _D. volans _successfully in captivity, then you should get the kudos you deserve!
> 
> The German herp society encourage people to record their results by giving 3 prizes each year for successful captive breeding (and I'm sure they check the claims rigorously!). I think that's a good idea as the keeper gets peer recognition.


If i do i'll be over the moon.


----------

