# marmoset trouble :(



## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

ive had my male marmoset now for over 2years he is nealy 3yr old. never had any problems with him till now, he has started to attack my girlfrend and not just little nips, he's full on and has made her bleed for the head a few times, and he is sneaky in the way he does it to her, he is fine with me and frends, its just my girlfrend, or and my female cat he trys to really hurt her aswell, i have 7 cats but he only attacks one of them, ive 3 dogs and he is fine with them too? he's my little frend lol and goes most places with me so i carnt lose him, can anyone help?


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

I am not an expert but is he a intact male?


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Welcome to marmosets , this is what you get when you keep one marmoset on his own and he reaches sexual maturity.

You wont stop it ,he will get worse ,the only thing would be to get a mate and put it a proper enclosure outside with a heated indoor enclosure

Believe me you will get slated for keeping one on its own this is a no no


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

also he wont let us kiss each other lol my girlfrend wont even look at him incase he attacks her, does my marmoset need a girlfrend?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

yes he intact?


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

lee.burton said:


> also he wont let us kiss each other lol my girlfrend wont even look at him incase he attacks her, does my marmoset need a girlfrend?


Probably, but neturing him might help


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

he is fine with me just my girlfrend? ive heard if i got him a girlfrend he wouldnt bother with me?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

where would you get a marmoset neturing done?


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

Ask vets, i now that there is a exotic vets in bedford, where are you??

I imagine it wouldn't be much more different to neuturing a rabbit.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Start treating him like a monkey instead of your 'freind'; he needs a girlfreind and things to do that monkeys do, not people...
(don't just skip over what animalsbeebee said, lol)


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

im near the durham area, had to take him to vets while back as he hurt he leg on my multi gym cables, and they where clueless, but i never even thougt about getting him done... seems like he'd be fine if it where just me and him, i think he just gets very jalous, plus i let him get away with alot as he likes to steel food from eveyone


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Maybe you should get rid of the girlfriend lol


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

how can i treat him like a monkey when im not a monkey??????


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

Getting him done could help. It does also soun a little bit like you a treating him like one of our children and not like a marmoset


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

em_40 said:


> Start treating him like a monkey instead of your 'freind'; he needs a girlfreind and things to do that monkeys do, not people...
> (don't just skip over what animalsbeebee said, lol)


im not its just not very helpful, if i wanted to luk at an outside encloser then id go to a zoo lol


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Is this a wind up ,surely you cant be that stupid ,you cant just take an animal to be neutered and then think everything will be ok ,you have to neuter at an early age.

The best thing you can do would be rehome to someone that knows what they are doing


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

Beardies are the best said:


> Getting him done could help. It does also soun a little bit like you a treating him like one of our children and not like a marmoset


so since im a male then i should mark my things and chase im about all day as im the bigger male, as thats how they go on in the wild?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

animalsbeebee said:


> Is this a wind up ,surely you cant be that stupid ,you cant just take an animal to be neutered and then think everything will be ok ,you have to neuter at an early age.
> 
> The best thing you can do would be rehome to someone that knows what they are doing


well thats going to happen


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

look all im asking is for some advice into why he is attacking my girlfrend and noone else? he fine with me and my mates, he seems to like males more then females, he plays he eats he cleans himself he is happy and fine, he just attacks my girlfrend from time to time, thats all i want help with....


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

can i just ask, what have you decided to do then?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

animalsbeebee said:


> Is this a wind up ,surely you cant be that stupid ,you cant just take an animal to be neutered and then think everything will be ok ,you have to neuter at an early age.
> 
> The best thing you can do would be rehome to someone that knows what they are doing


who you calling stupid anyway, didnt come on here for a pissing contest.. your a joke!


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

Beardies are the best said:


> can i just ask, what have you decided to do then?


well nothing, i just have to look into things, had him a long time so not rehoming him


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm glad you did a great deal of thorough research before you spent a large amount of money on a pet.


A single, hand raised marmoset is always going to become very protective over one or another 'owner' (i.e. mate) and highly aggressive and possessive to other 'intruders'. Two minutes on google should have informed you of this way before you ever considered buying the animal.

Marmosets should NEVER be kept alone and should ideally be parent reared. They should never be kept as 'pets' in the 'dog/cat/hamster' sense and this is just one of many reasons why.

To keep marmosets properly they need company of their own kind, a very specific diet and a large aviary style enclosure. Ideally they'll have outside access from within the enclosure but at the very least they will need full spectrum UV basking lights in their enclosure. 

They should never have 'human food' and should be kept on daily livefoods, daily gum arabic and plenty of fresh fruit and cooked root veg. Anything else (rice, pasta, chips, marshmallows etc) is asking for an early death at best and a long drawn out miserable life at worst.




Now, I'm sure you're not one if these people that keep marmosets in a parrot cage/ferret cage, dress it in little jackets/harnesses and let it free roam around your house, but if you haven't got a large aviary style enclosure or a proper diet then please do some further research (and not just 'from the breeder' as the chances are they don't have a clue either - if they did they would never have sold you a single animals and/or would of definitely warned you of the issues that a single, hand raised animal will always have - maybe they did just want your £1K after all!? :bash


Then you will need to source and buy a mate for the animal. However, as you wouldn't want to introduce more babies into the 'pet trade', then you will need to get the male neutered, or possibly better would be to give the female contraceptives so that the natural bond can be maintained.


Wait until he starts bathing in his own urine - they love doing that once they've reached sexual maturity! 


I know my post comes across as quite harsh, but you're not the first person to spend over a grand on an animal and yet fail to do quite basic research about its proper care and I've kinda worn out my 'polite' filter.


Some light reading:

In depth - but not perfect, do not take all this link as 'gospel'
Nutrition & Husbandry of Callitrichids

Government guidelines

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf


Here's a really good paper on callitrichid nutrition

http://www.nagonline.net/Technical Papers/NAGFS1303CALLITRICHIDSAPR7-2003.pdf


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## Lenor (Jul 24, 2009)

He's attacking your girlfriend and your female cat because he's coming into sexual maturity. He's frustrated and probably lonely. You have quite rightly stated you can't treat him like a marmoset as you're not one. that is why he absolutely NEEDS A FRIEND. He should never have been kept alone. The animal welfare act states animals need to be kept with, or apart, from others of their own species as appropriate. Which means he absolutely should never have been allowed to come to you as a single monkey.
Monkeys ARE NOT PETS. They can be kept responsibly by private keepers, but they need a proper indoor and ideally outdoor enclosure, and company of their own kind. They are not baby substitutes. They are not happy just going around doing whatever you want to do. They are happy living with other marmosets doing what they want to do, and hopefully allowing you to join in.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

bothrops said:


> I'm glad you did a great deal of thorough research before you spent a large amount of money on a pet.
> 
> 
> A single, hand raised marmoset is always going to become very protective over one or another 'owner' (i.e. mate) and highly aggressive and possessive to other 'intruders'. Two minutes on google should have informed you of this way before you ever considered buying the animal.
> ...


 
he is fed the right food but he does steel human food on a daily basis, he has full run of the house dosent wear jackets or dresses lol, and he was £750, look all in all i understand what your saying, he is fine he nealy 3years old and good with earyone but my girlfrend as i have mentioned few times, i just wanted to know if their was any reason he keeps attaking my girlfrend, he known her for 2years but only started attacking her in the last month?


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## Beardies are the best (Jun 28, 2011)

did u get my message?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

BTW - the reason he's biting your girlfriend is that you show her affection and as far as he's concerned YOU are HIS (yep - you are in a long term, very serious homosexual but heterospecific relationship and your little marmoset is definitely the 'jealous type').

The cat is also a threat. Your mates aren't as they are merely 'strangers' or 'vistors' and they get very different chemical and social cues from you than your girlfriend and cat do.


When you took on a single, hand raised marmoset, you signed up for exactly this.

Your options:

1) get a girlfriend that doesn't mind being torn to shreds by a jealous monkey on a regular basis

2) rehome the monkey

3) Get a mate for the monkey (but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you do this, make sure you are more responsible this time and put them in a proper enclosure and make sure that you use birth control for them).

4) There is no (4)




BTW - your comment of 'if you wanted to see an outdoor enclosure you'd go to a zoo' does not do you any favours. If you feel like that, then maybe the only place YOU should see a marmoset is at a zoo. At least then you'd see a happy, well adjusted family group of them.


The irony of all this is, is that I bet you claim to 'love' your little monkey...


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

i know very little about marms but even iv picked up whats up with him.

3 yr old monkey = sexully mature

sexually mature = wants to make babies.

your girlfreind = female so either competition for you as potential mate (you being his only companion) or he wants her for a mate

solution: unless you want the behaviour to continue and get worse (bathing in pee, nice!) BUY HIM A COMPANION.

think thats the jist of what everyones trying to tell you.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

bothrops said:


> BTW - the reason he's biting your girlfriend is that you show her affection and as far as he's concerned YOU are HIS (yep - you are in a long term, very serious homosexual but heterospecific relationship and your little marmoset is definitely the 'jealous type').
> 
> The cat is also a threat. Your mates aren't as they are merely 'strangers' or 'vistors' and they get very different chemical and social cues from you than your girlfriend and cat do.
> 
> ...


most of the time i love him yeah lol, but not all the time can be a right little bugger hahaha thanks for the help


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> i just wanted to know if their was any reason he keeps attaking my girlfrend, he known her for 2years but only started attacking her in the last month?


well read what people are saying and you'l find out!


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

SilverSky said:


> well read what people are saying and you'l find out!


now your just being sensible....


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

our lass will just have to take it till i can get gizmo a real mate of his own kind, but not making an encloser for them, land lord wont let me, thanks for all the help guys hope i havent upset meny of you too much haha


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

lee.burton said:


> our lass will just have to take it till i can get gizmo a real mate of his own kind, but not making an encloser for them, land lord wont let me, thanks for all the help guys hope i havent upset meny of you too much haha


Glad you are so relaxed about it all. If he/they is/are free roaming, then it is only fair to warn you that it won't be long before he/they start anointing themselves with urine. That'll make the house smell nice anyway.

Good luck (and I'm talking to Gizmo and his potential mate here, not you I'm afraid Lee)


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

bothrops said:


> Glad you are so relaxed about it all. If he/they is/are free roaming, then it is only fair to warn you that it won't be long before he/they start anointing themselves with urine. That'll make the house smell nice anyway.
> 
> Good luck (and I'm talking to Gizmo and his potential mate here, not you I'm afraid Lee)


 
dont be too upset if gizmo does not reply lmao


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

...*facepalm*


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## TheProfessor (Apr 19, 2011)

Lee you obviously haven't taken everything onboard....
You do realise that without the proper enclousure your Marmoset will WRECK the house you are in....and the landlord won't be happy....

Without correction to his diet to ensure its exactly right, not using the excuse well he steals human food occasionally, your "loved" monkey will die early and it will be more than likely very uncomfortable to your monkey?

He chances are now, won't intergrate very well with another companion, as he views you as your companion....and he can very well kill your female cat....and do some SERIOUS damage to your girlfriend.....

Unless you can correct this I seriously recommend looking at rehoming....yes its not nice and I am having to rehome some of my pets for private reasons, but it needs to be done for whats best for the animals not what I want, after all I want lots of things I just know aren't reasonable. 
Seriously do 5 minutes of googling and you will see how serious some of the attacks to humans are, you seem to be finding this as one large joke?! 

Are you really insinuating that your girlfriend will just have to put up with it until you find a suitable female marmoset? Its just like you can just buy another baby, as she won't be of the correct age, nor is it guarnteed they will intergrate now! 

Another thing to think about.....what happens if your girlfriend has to visit the doctors or hospital due to injuries? what if people start questioning the screaming when she is attacked and report something? When you lose the monkey due to incorrect care, how will you feel then? At least rehoming you can choose a good carer and possible visiting rights, where as if they take your monkey you won't see it again....
Can you find a vet specialised to neuter the marmoset? Or can you afford contraceptives for the female?

Do EVERYONE a favour and seriously consider this instead of joking and thinking things will be ok....THINK SERIOUSLY about this!


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

im sorry but i think this is all blown out of proportion, so your saying and maybe everyone else here too, that there are no hand cared for marmosets that live with a human family that are happy on their own? surely their must be? he does seem fine, ive seen loads of marmosets in the wild and zoo's he is no different, he makes all the right calls i understand his calls and what he wants, he seems more then happy, he plays with all my cats but the one he attacks which he ha stopped attacking since he started on my girlfrend, which in one month he has gone for her 3 times i know it not right but apart from this and abit chewing on wood furniture, the times he has attacted have been when i was in the room too so was able to get gizzy off her then 5mins later was if nothing ever hapened, now if some how i can stem is violent ways towards my girlfrend and make sure he's never bored things could be fine or is their really no hope?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Im suprised this thread hasn't turned into a lockable one by now! Well done to the OP's responders! :2thumb:

Lee, there are many (unfortunately) baby Marmosets that are sold to unsuspecting buyers to live as a single Marmoset in a family home. I can safely say that most of these Marmosets will be either:

rehomed by the owners to a zoo, sanctuary or proper private keeper
rescued by Monkey World or the like
or left to live their life in a small cage in a back room, alone & miserable as it can't be trusted not to attack someone
Which would you like for Gizmo?

Seriously, what he needs is a proper enclosure, & the company & understanding of his own kind. You will not be able to train Gizmo not to attack your girlfriend. If you love him & want the best for him, take this seriously & do the right thing for Gizmo!


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

i do want whats best for him, but i wish people would beleave me when i say he is happy.. so no one has been able to train a marmoset? he understands his name, and when i allow him into certain rooms and when i say no he listens, but tends to sneak commando style, he loves sun bathing ontop of my fish tank and lets me groom him and he play fights too which is funny, and play hide and seak, he makes laughing type sounds when he excited, argh this is going to be so hard if i have too rehome for whats best for gizmo


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

lee.burton said:


> i do want whats best for him, but i wish people would beleave me when i say he is happy.. so no one has been able to train a marmoset? he understands his name, and when i allow him into certain rooms and when i say no he listens, but tends to sneak commando style, he loves sun bathing ontop of my fish tank and lets me groom him and he play fights too which is funny, and play hide and seak, he makes laughing type sounds when he excited, argh this is going to be so hard if i have too rehome for whats best for gizmo


How many Marmosets do you see in movies? None! This is because they aren't trainable like other larger species are, & many of these Capuchins, Macaques, Baboons, apes, etc have been trained using things such as electric shocks, etc.

If you do not want to rehome Gizmo, then make him a large aviary-type enclosure, & find a similarly-aged female Marmoset of his species. Introduction would have to be carefully supervised, but there is no reason why you cannot intergrate Gizmo into being what he naturally is - a Marmoset. Then look into birth control methods for them. You may not have the same bond with him then, but you will know he is happier & is acting as nature intended.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> i do want whats best for him, but i wish people would beleave me when i say he is happy.. so no one has been able to train a marmoset? he understands his name, and when i allow him into certain rooms and when i say no he listens, but tends to sneak commando style, he loves sun bathing ontop of my fish tank and lets me groom him and he play fights too which is funny, and play hide and seak, he makes laughing type sounds when he excited, argh this is going to be so hard if i have too rehome for whats best for gizmo


I totally understand mate, maybe find a place which keeps various monkeys which would let you visit often to see him with others of his own species.


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## pether (May 4, 2010)

Hey Lee,

I'm afraid Gizmo's jealous he is sexually mature and wants/needs to mate

In my opinion that is ALL it is MY opinion I would re-home him, because living by his self is not what nature intended

It will be hard but it's for his own sake


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## Lenor (Jul 24, 2009)

> im sorry but i think this is all blown out of proportion, so your saying and maybe everyone else here too, that there are no hand cared for marmosets that live with a human family that are happy on their own? surely their must be? he does seem fine, ive seen loads of marmosets in the wild and zoo's he is no different, he makes all the right calls i understand his calls and what he wants, he seems more then happy, he plays with all my cats but the one he attacks which he ha stopped attacking since he started on my girlfrend, which in one month he has gone for her 3 times i know it not right but apart from this and abit chewing on wood furniture, the times he has attacted have been when i was in the room too so was able to get gizzy off her then 5mins later was if nothing ever hapened, now if some how i can stem is violent ways towards my girlfrend and make sure he's never bored things could be fine or is their really no hope?


How much research did you do before getting this poor animal? This is why part of me feels the move towards the banning of keeping primates wouldn't be a bad thing, as there are so many people who are able to get hold of monkeys and keep them as pets who have little to no idea of their very specialised and complex needs.

You need to realise he is a monkey, not a human pal. If you had to spend your whole life with a group of chimps who never fully understood what you needed, didn't speak your language, fed you what they thought you'd like rather than what you needed, thought tossing you a few sticks to play with would be compensation enough for a rich social life full of interactions with members of your own species to keep you from developing boredom related behaviours or stereotypies, and you had to live you whole life without ever being able to fully express your behaviours as a human being, would you truly be happy? No. So why would monkeys be happy being forced to live lonely lives with us?

Do some research, build a proper enclosure, get him a friend or two and get some form of contraception sorted for the pair/group, and start putting his needs first. Then you can keep what will hopefully be a happy monkey. Surviving and not getting sick, understanding commands and making noises does not equal happiness, happiness is a much more complex thing than that.

You will also have to prepare yourself that his behaviours are going to continue to change from now on. An infant monkey and an adult are worlds apart. I'll be amazed if your landlord will tolerate the destruction and urine marking of an adult monkey but not tolerate an aviary...

Sadly huge numbers of monkeys that people misguidely buy as "pets" because they've done not proper research and haven't realised they can't ever be "pets" are rehomed once they reach sexual maturity because the owners are totally unprepared for what life with a monkey really entails.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

he does get his right food and not what i just feel like giving him, if he gets human food its because he steels as he thinks he's missing out on something! now in terms of its how nature intended, well nature did not intend for monkeys to be caged, my gizmo is not caged!!!! by me he is fine he is coming on 3 years old is happy and gets on fine with the family he does get jealous between me and my girlfrend, if people want to go on about best for then thats fine but at the end of the day its wrong for anyone to keep primates as pets even if they think they have the monkeys best intrest in mind so dont dictate to me i came on here for a solotion to stop gizmo biting my girlfrend, ive had my answers so i will be taken them onboard and will do whats best for him, i dont regret getting him he is an amazing frend maybe abit cheeky at times and yes he does wee abit and has been marking for a while now but i can deal with that, i would like to do an enclosure for him and get him a girlfrend but space is an issue, we are think of moving to bigger house so maybe then i can, and gizmo will have to wait till the for a girlfrend as im not having 2 of them running round my house lol, but i would love to get in talks with a keeper of marmosets as ive never had the intention of gizmo never getting a mate.. people on here have agood way of making you feel bad about your self, he is loved for very much and i know things are not ideal for him, but he has a loving family that care for him, he was for sale so he could have gone to somewhere much worse, would he self harm if he was unhappy would he not clean himself if he wasnt happy, yes his life is not as fulfilled as other marmosets on this world but he is happy, if anyone is willing i would love to come and see their marmosets at their place to see how they get on in groups and their naturel state


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## pether (May 4, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> he does get his right food and not what i just feel like giving him, if he gets human food its because he steels as he thinks he's missing out on something!
> 
> 
> > now in terms of its how nature intended, well nature did not intend for monkeys to be caged, my gizmo is not caged!!!!
> ...



BUT still surrounded by there own kind!


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

This thread is a good read:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/exotic-mammals/519781-marmoset-advice.html

Also has photos of rooms for the marmoset.


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## budgetbus (Oct 11, 2011)

lee.burton said:


> he does get his right food and not what i just feel like giving him, if he gets human food its because he steels as he thinks he's missing out on something! now in terms of its how nature intended, well nature did not intend for monkeys to be caged, my gizmo is not caged!!!! by me he is fine he is coming on 3 years old is happy and gets on fine with the family he does get jealous between me and my girlfrend, if people want to go on about best for then thats fine but at the end of the day its wrong for anyone to keep primates as pets even if they think they have the monkeys best intrest in mind so dont dictate to me i came on here for a solotion to stop gizmo biting my girlfrend, ive had my answers so i will be taken them onboard and will do whats best for him, i dont regret getting him he is an amazing frend maybe abit cheeky at times and yes he does wee abit and has been marking for a while now but i can deal with that, i would like to do an enclosure for him and get him a girlfrend but space is an issue, we are think of moving to bigger house so maybe then i can, and gizmo will have to wait till the for a girlfrend as im not having 2 of them running round my house lol, but i would love to get in talks with a keeper of marmosets as ive never had the intention of gizmo never getting a mate.. people on here have agood way of making you feel bad about your self, he is loved for very much and i know things are not ideal for him, but he has a loving family that care for him, he was for sale so he could have gone to somewhere much worse, would he self harm if he was unhappy would he not clean himself if he wasnt happy, yes his life is not as fulfilled as other marmosets on this world but he is happy, if anyone is willing i would love to come and see their marmosets at their place to see how they get on in groups and their naturel state


Yes he is, unless he has keys to the front door.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

budgetbus said:


> Yes he is, unless he has keys to the front door.


windows are open he can leave when ever he wants but he doesnt..... he has been to falmingo land with me no harness was needed, he does not like the outdoors think its all abit overwelming for him, i can take him out but he wont leave me shoulder unless he is near the house and he can get back in,


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

southpython said:


> This thread is a good read:
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/exotic-mammals/519781-marmoset-advice.html
> 
> Also has photos of rooms for the marmoset.


seen those pics mate cheers, the cage i have for gizmo is bigger then the one in those pics but he only in it at tea time or if geust are round and have hamuks, ropes and swings all round the house also abig cargo net under the stairs,


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

im at work tonight but at the weekend i will take some pictures of his cage and rooms in house, and of gizmo, pictures ive seen of other marmoset and gizmo seem very large for 3yrs his tail is not much short of 25cm and his forearms are huge, but has very slim waist, when i groom him he hangs upside down and streches out and as if he's reaching for the floor, he looks very long when he does this


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

ive put a picture of gizmo that is not that old on my profile havent been able to get the picture on this thread just keeps asking for url?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

think this has worked? nope hasnt worked but their is a pic of giz on my page if anyone like to see him, i will put more recent ones of him at the weekend and of his home


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Spent alot of years keeping small primates....

This thread is something else..
Cut off private parts to make a monkey a better pet..

Have found over the years that all read about monkeys not making good pets
but they choose to ignore..
Because the want for an adorable pet over rules facts...
They all decide to ignore and eventually end up moving on to another disalutioned person with a dream.
It goes on and on...

To the fact that some can reach a stage that they are that imprinted to humans that they cannot be put back with there own kind..

This marmie should have been with its own kind from the start.
I just hope that for its sake that it can have the time and effort put in from you as you are the cause of this situation..

Animalsallbee has stated a few obvious issues to you and you choose to argue..
And it gets worse.
Hurt himself on a multi gym..
Good to hear its not just own its own but kept in an environment that is anything but suitable..

There is only one way to rectify this issue and thats to get an enclosure built and get him a companion so as he can be a monkey and not a plaything.

You say you can understand what he says..
Listen more closely then you will find he wants to be a monkey....

But i think by reading this post that you will hang on and hope for a miracle cure...
Or keep him closed up in a cage permanently because he gets worse...

If you love him as you say you do.
then start thinking of him and his needs and forget about you selfish needs for a pet..

We have over 40 small primates and adore and enjoy each and every one..
But our passion is monkeys not pets......

DO THE BEST THING FOR HIM.
OR REHOUSE TO SOMEBODY WILLING TO GIVE HIM WHAT HE NEEDS.


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## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

I fully agree that the marmoset would have been better off with it's own companions in a natural outdoor enclosure - but would it be too stressful for everything to be changed for him now?

If he is 'happy' in his current environment (although far from ideal), would it be too much for him to be separated from his human companions and put in an unfamiliar environment with another marmoset (especially when he has not learnt to speak the language)?

I am not trying to fuel an argument here, I am genuinely interested on how the marmoset would feel about the change. Yes he should have been kept more natural with friends from the beginning, but would a massive change now be the best thing for him?


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Spent alot of years keeping small primates....
> 
> This thread is something else..
> Cut off private parts to make a monkey a better pet..
> ...


ok understand what your saying but your not saying anything different to what others have already said, you have 40 small primates? what are you a zoo? at the end of the day i have gizmo and i dont think people should judge him and his enviroment in which he lives, its all he's known you are you to judge, his accident with the multi gym horrible and sence moved it over a year ago.. he has move then enough to do in the house and comes out with me alot, he is always happy to meet new people but can be funny with females! he has a cage which is 6ftx5ftx4ft but is only in it at tea time as i carnt stand to see him in their, i cant see those feelings changing if i got him a partner so id end up with 2 running round the house... their a pic of gizmo on my profile! he is happy but of corse he be happy with his own kind but im sure your primates would be more happy were they belong in the wild..... as would meny animals humans keep in their house holds, it an inperfect world, besides even if gizmo lived in the wild whos to say he'd have even reached the age he is now, people have been keeping monkeys for hundreds of years,


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

suity said:


> I fully agree that the marmoset would have been better off with it's own companions in a natural outdoor enclosure - but would it be too stressful for everything to be changed for him now?
> 
> If he is 'happy' in his current environment (although far from ideal), would it be too much for him to be separated from his human companions and put in an unfamiliar environment with another marmoset (especially when he has not learnt to speak the language)?
> 
> I am not trying to fuel an argument here, I am genuinely interested on how the marmoset would feel about the change. Yes he should have been kept more natural with friends from the beginning, but would a massive change now be the best thing for him?


No it wouldnt be stressfull if done properly.
He would adapt back pretty quick..

He will still carry on his monkey antics and eventually get nasty with everyone.

Happens all the time with singles.

If he was hand reared then introduction to his own kind must be done slowly.


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## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> No it wouldnt be stressfull if done properly.
> He would adapt back pretty quick..
> 
> He will still carry on his monkey antics and eventually get nasty with everyone.
> ...


Thanks, I thought that would be the case but I wasn't sure.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

lee.burton said:


> ok understand what your saying but your not saying anything different to what others have already said, you have 40 small primates? what are you a zoo? at the end of the day i have gizmo and i dont think people should judge him and his enviroment in which he lives, its all he's known you are you to judge, his accident with the multi gym horrible and sence moved it over a year ago.. he has move then enough to do in the house and comes out with me alot, he is always happy to meet new people but can be funny with females! he has a cage which is 6ftx5ftx4ft but is only in it at tea time as i carnt stand to see him in their, i cant see those feelings changing if i got him a partner so id end up with 2 running round the house... their a pic of gizmo on my profile! he is happy but of corse he be happy with his own kind but im sure your primates would be more happy were they belong in the wild..... as would meny animals humans keep in their house holds, it an inperfect world, besides even if gizmo lived in the wild whos to say he'd have even reached the age he is now, people have been keeping monkeys for hundreds of years,


No i dont have a zoo.
Have a large enough garden to allow me to keep monkeys like monkeys.

Judging and stateing facts are two different things..
Have heard the same story as yours hundreds of times...

You are in denial of your monkeys needs..

Return to the wild...
Its getting destroyed. so keeping as best as you can in captivity to keep species going..
Have quite a few endangered and are breeding well.
So other pairs can be made to keep going...

A houshold free run for a monkey is wrong....
Sure i remember you before asking how to get toffee of him..

The longer you leave the inevitable then the harder it will be to do the right thing for him..
And may even be impossible...


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> No i dont have a zoo.
> Have a large enough garden to allow me to keep monkeys like monkeys.
> 
> Judging and stateing facts are two different things..
> ...


this is the frist thread and the frist time ive been on this site so no it wasnt me asking for toffee? 
i would not be having these talks if it wasnt for gizzy attacking my girlfrend, if i lived on my own with him they would'nt be any issues. 
i dont want be another person that has had to rehome their monkey, he has never attacked me and no one else for that matter, my girlfrend dosent even have to do anything, she opened the front door one night and giz leaped on her head and was biting was very nasty and made her bleed, i just wanted to know if anyone might know what is going on in his head when he attacks her, as 90% of the time he is okay with her, but my girlfrend carnt cope with him no more and feels unsafe around him, ive segested the two options with my girlfrend i.e rehome him or get him girlfrend and try to do thing right for him, she says carnt rehome him as i will blame her forever and doining things right will of corse take time and money, money is no object as far as giz is concernd, i just think my girlfrend resents him now and it causing a rift between us


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

lee.burton said:


> ive had my male marmoset now for over 2years he is nealy 3yr old. never had any problems with him till now, he has started to attack my girlfrend and not just little nips, he's full on and has made her bleed for the head a few times, and he is sneaky in the way he does it to her, he is fine with me and frends, its just my girlfrend, or and my female cat he trys to really hurt her aswell, i have 7 cats but he only attacks one of them, ive 3 dogs and he is fine with them too? he's my little frend lol and goes most places with me so i carnt lose him, can anyone help?


Hi Lee

You have come on here as obviously you know you have a problem and yet you choose to ignore the advice of some pretty experienced keepers.

You asked for help as the monkey was attacking your girlkfriend and now you know the reasons why ( from many sources ) and what to do about it. Yet it still appears you either don't believe or choosing to ignore.

I keep small primates too but not as experienced as some on here. I agree with every single word that has been said and the steps that should be taken.

Very constructive replies :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

Best Wishes

Neil


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

just to add, you say now that hes 'only' attacking your girlfreind, aggression tends to escalate, what if he goes for someone else?

depending on what he's done to your girlfreind he may already legally be classed as a dangerous animal as hes already causing harm to people. animals have been put down for less, all it takes is one phone call to the police reporting you for having a dangerous animal and you'd have a hell of a time proving hes safe around people, largely becuase you've already admitted he can be dangerous around your girlfreind.

you need to get this sorted before it escalates, you cannot just ignore these issues and hope they go away, they wont. you cant just wait until you have a new girlfriend or a new house.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

miss_ferret said:


> just to add, you say now that hes 'only' attacking your girlfreind, aggression tends to escalate, what if he goes for someone else?
> 
> depending on what he's done to your girlfreind he may already legally be classed as a dangerous animal as hes already causing harm to people. animals have been put down for less, all it takes is one phone call to the police reporting you for having a dangerous animal and you'd have a hell of a time proving hes safe around people, largely becuase you've already admitted he can be dangerous around your girlfreind.
> 
> you need to get this sorted before it escalates, you cannot just ignore these issues and hope they go away, they wont. you cant just wait until you have a new girlfriend or a new house.


i can asure you the olny way he'd get put down would be over my dead body.....


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> i can asure you the olny way he'd get put down would be over my dead body.....


if the police get involved you wont have a choice. if hes deemed a danger to the public its a death sentence, regardless of what condition your bodys in at the time .


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

miss_ferret said:


> if the police get involved you wont have a choice. if hes deemed a danger to the public its a death sentence, regardless of what condition your bodys in at the time .


he'l be fine :2thumb:


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

you know what? i give up.

iv tried to help, very experienced keepers have tried to help, your clearly going to do whatever the hell you want and to hell with the consequences. 

at this stage im hoping this is a wind up.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes this has all been a wind up sorry for wasting everyones time!


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

Well it wasnt funny in the sense that a wind up should be but at least its brought about several very informative posts on how to keep them properly and not how crappy you jokingly let people to believe you kept them.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

lee.burton said:


> windows are open he can leave when ever he wants but he doesnt..... he has been to falmingo land with me no harness was needed, he does not like the outdoors think its all abit overwelming for him, i can take him out but he wont leave me shoulder unless he is near the house and he can get back in,


Wow, this shows great irresponsibility & disregard for Gizmo's safety! And how the hell did you get him into Flamingo Land? Smuggle him in your bag? Again, that is not only very stressful for Gizmo (as you say, he doesn't like going outside!!!), but also very risky as if he bit a member of the public, it'll be bye-bye Gizmo, & hopefully legal action for you!

Enough knowledgable people on here have given you the right advice for your Marmoset. Either be responsible & do what you have been told to do by us, or go off, make Gizmo live a long miserable misunderstood life & blame yourself only for the consequences.


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> Yes this has all been a wind up sorry for wasting everyones time!


unless you're just saying that now to try and look less of a prick


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

whatever! easy to call people names on the internet, maybe not so easy face to face! :bash:


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## SilverSky (Oct 2, 2010)

trust me i'd call you the same thing if i saw you face to face :2thumb:

and thats the last i'm saying on the matter before i get myself an infraction


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## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

Come on guys, how is this helping? Lee is asking for help, which is what this forum is for. Our opinions are very different to his and go against everything he has known for the whole time he has owned his marmoset. He has been keeping his marmoset this way for two years as he thought it was correct, now he is being told it was wrong and you need to give him time to let that truth sink in. We can't expect him to just accept it straight away and go along with the advice that we are giving him, why should he trust us? Especially since we are coming off as quite a hostile bunch, simply because he is not ready to accept our help (within only hours of receiving it).

I have seen this happen time and time again on this forum, it goes like this -
1) Someone has been keeping an animal totally differently to what is reccomended or how we would do it.
2) We tell the person he has been doing it all completely wrong and needs to change things fast or re-home the animal.
3) This is hard for the person to accept as things have been going fine the way they are keeping the animal -except for usually one or two concerns. (Remember, this person doesn't know us - why should he immediately trust us and take our advice?)
4) We move on to scare tactics, tell the person they are killing their animal and don't care.
5) The person doesn't like the way they are talked to and decides we're all crazy and hostile. Names are exchanged, from both sides.
6) The person leaves. We have no way of giving further, helpful advice and the person will never again come here for it. They will end up getting their advice from somewhere else and the problems with the animal's living conditions may never be improved. We'll never know.

We are missing out on a real opportunity here to help Lee and his marmoset. Lee has already said he is willing to change how he is keeping his monkey, he loves it and wants what is best for it and says money is no object. He even asked very nicely if he could have the opportunity to talk to and maybe even see another marmoset keeper's set up so he could see what it would be like to keep them more naturally.

We have to understand Lee has no reason to trust our advice or believe what we are saying, can we please be nicer to him so that he sticks around and maybe gets to see what we are really about, and that our advice can be trusted?

Lee, I am sorry for the way people have talked to you here. Please understand that we are all just trying to help. There are real experts here, people who can truly help you. People are offended because they feel you didn't do enough research and aren't willing to accept their help, but I bet you did do research, but maybe not from the most reliable of sources (which is not necessarily your fault).

Can we all call a truce here and focus on the main concern, which should be the future of this marmoset and nothing else. I hope you stay Lee, there are some people here that can give you the best advice you would ever receive. Someone near you may even be kind enough to show you their natural set up, I believe you would get so much more out of your little marmie if you could see him in a natural enclosure with some friends and watch him do what nature intended him to do. I have to say though that people will just get more and more frustrated at you if you do not express at least some interest in following the advice given. I would ask that you take a few days to read online and see what some real marmoset experts say on the issue, because I do feel that after reading what they say that a natural life with other marmosets and a nice big enclosure is the best way to keep them. If you decide to stay, everyone here will do whatever they can to help your little marmoset have the best life possible.

I hope this helps.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

I would absolutely echo what suity has said. We've all given our opinions, now its all up to lee to decide on HIS families future (i.e. Lee, Gizmo and the girlfriend). We may not like the way the animal is kept, but even I recognise that some elements of Gizmo's care is better than many marmoset 'pets' (just look at TB's thread on CB! - pm for more info if curious)



Lee - I appreciate that you have been given quite a bashing, but please hang around and learn from us. There really are some knowledgeable people on here. Peter keeps a large number of primate species and is a 'proper' expert with years of experience. Zooman is also an experienced keeper as are a number of others contributing to this thread. I'm more 'paperbased' in terms of my knowledge, but I lecture in animal management for a living and teach to degree level and I'm module leader for the third year BSc 'Primate Management' module (our college also houses three callitrichid species, three lemur species and a capuchin troop).


Please understand that this is not another dig, but please reconsider taking Gizmo with you 'everywhere you go'. I cannot believe you managed to smuggle him into Flamingoland. Transporting primates between collections requires huge levels of quarantine procedures to be in place and control of zoonoses is of paramount importance to all collections with primates. By taking Gizmo 'to the zoo' you were being incredibly irresponsible to the collections animals and Gizmo. Just being out and about with you and coming into contact with lots of other humans is incredibly risky. Due to their similar physiology, primates are very susceptible to human illnesses and exposing him to so many is risking his health everytime. Gizmo would not recover easily from something that a full grown human could easily shake off. I'm sure that being the 'monkey guy' feels pretty good and gives you a little 'local fame' - I'm not judging, everybody enjoys being the centre of attention - but please consider leaving Gizmo at home when you go down the shops.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

i have taken on board what everyone has advise me to do and i know only have 2 options, but have to think about things, just been a big blow, came on here to seek help and now it looks as though im going to have to rehome him, as space is a big issue for the right enclosure needed.. so am just upset, manage to get some more pictures of him on my profile,

i know all of you are concerned for gizmo but i will make sure i get a better life for him with his own kind


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Bit confused here...
Why when theres another problem with single pet monkeys that all of a sudden it should be banned...

Surely better education would be the answer...

You here of other animals that are kept incorectly but its never ever jumped upon for all to be banned...

Not that it would ever happen anyway as its been tried several times...

Even by the Cronnans..
Ban private keeping but when asked who owns monkey world they were infact private keepers themselves..
Fighting a crusade to close there own park...

Dont get me wrong i personnaly think they do a good job..
Most of the time..

But they still make mistakes especially with the smaller ones..
But they still televised there errors..
Cotton tops tried with common marmies---disaster..
Even down to the release of max to the marmie troop..
Lucky in my mind and not how we would have achieved the result....

We like many others have made bad judgements in the past...

But why should we be punished or a ban on keeping be threatened because of what others are doing.....

Even deffending that research would have been done..

First and foremost it always states they are social animals and should be with there own....

There has been alot of good advise given but equally allot of bad...
neauter him....
Get him a friend or two..
Plus allot more...

It does seem this person will do whats best for gizzmo..
Or is it a wind up as im confused....

But sorry again folks as ive said lots of times...
Lets start looking to ban the keeping of all thats not correct and not just primates.....


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Just to let you all know that Lee is thinking long & hard about the future for Gizmo & certainly seems to want to do right by him. I have told Lee that if I can be of any help, I will, which was taken on board & appreciated.


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## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

Awesome. That's what this forum is about! Well done guys !


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

would there of been less of an issue if the marm had been a female im just curious obviously all pprimate males are testy just wondering though why is it not possible to train the marm obviously primates are intelligent


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## Kev.K (Jan 3, 2010)

lee.burton said:


> he is fine with me just my girlfrend? ive heard if i got him a girlfrend he wouldnt bother with me?



I don't know much bout marmosets. But that sounds really selfish mate. 
No offence intended.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> would there of been less of an issue if the marm had been a female im just curious obviously all pprimate males are testy just wondering though why is it not possible to train the marm obviously primates are intelligent


Humans are meant to be the inteligent ones..
Why train it...
Its a monkey and should be so...
Female marms can be just as agressive...


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ultimately though if the marms imprinted with human behaviour and its gone too far to introduce him back to other marms then surely theres an option of training it yh this might not be a short and easy process but if u can train a goldfish


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Wow! What a thread! I don't know if anyone has added this, but here is a link to the Code of Pratice for the Welfare of Privately Kept Non-Human Primates (aka monkeys). http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf It is written by a very experienced primate keeper.


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

glidergirl said:


> Wow! What a thread! I don't know if anyone has added this, but here is a link to the Code of Pratice for the Welfare of Privately Kept Non-Human Primates (aka monkeys). http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf It is written by a very experienced primate keeper.


wish id had read this nealy 3years ago, i know me taken gizmo away from his perents was a bad thing to do, and keeping him on his own has been far from ideal, but he has had a quility of life (see pictures) i know alot on here will not agree but he has, it hurts but its time for him to go back with his own kind, thank you to all that have participated to this thread........


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## lee.burton (Oct 25, 2011)

Kev.K said:


> I don't know much bout marmosets. But that sounds really selfish mate.
> No offence intended.


 
yes it does, i didnt mean it to sound quite like it does, but its hard to explain as i do feels a bond with him and didnt want to lose that bond, yes it is selffish but im doing the right thing by him now i dont think ive ever understood the severity of what ive done till now, also i think that maybe getting a mate will be even more selffish of me so im going to try and find him a new home with someone that better understands gizmos needs, ive tryed to give him a good home but i know now i can never satisfy his needs


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> ultimately though if the marms imprinted with human behaviour and its gone too far to introduce him back to other marms then surely theres an option of training it yh this might not be a short and easy process but if u can train a goldfish


A Marmoset could not be imprinted with human behaviour, as it's not a human, its a wild animal. Instinct will always take over from imprinted behaviour, to one degree or another, at some point. 

As I said in an earlier post, Marmosets are not easy to train - how many Marmosets or Tamarins do you see in movies, compared to larger species such as Capuchins.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

glidergirl said:


> Wow! What a thread! I don't know if anyone has added this, but here is a link to the Code of Pratice for the Welfare of Privately Kept Non-Human Primates (aka monkeys). http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf It is written by a very experienced primate keeper.


Nice one Glidergirl.
This is the revised version.
Updated in 2009
Published 2010.

Little changes from the old one which has been there for all to see for many years..

Problem is that its guidelines...
Apart from breach of animal welfare --which is always a hard one to prove.

Ive said for years and will still say there should be laws....
Good keepers keep themselves to themselves..
Work in there own circles of others who do the same..

Circles that take allot of years to get into..
Proving that you are like them and have the welfare and ethics
to keep breading going in an acceptable way..

But allot find it very expensive and start selling to keep going..
To inexperienced newbies as they are the ones that will part with the most money...

There are studies on various issues that can be implimented to justify whats wrong..
As there are many that do it..
Remove to hand rear for better pets.
Hybrid breading...
Keeping in parrot cages as part of the family....

With time and patianced good keeping practice can be achieved...

But there are those that want to learn and those that want a magical
answer to achieving a pet monkey..

Its easy to tell them apart.

I find it to be the difficult thing with forums..
Its the same questions and problems that pop up again and again..
And allot of the times its basics that should have been sought before
housing the animal...
But it goes back to the breeder who sold..
And therefore those bad ethics are passed on quicker.

Good to hear that this guy is doing the best for Gizzmo.
Hes the important one here...

It would be great to be able to solve all problems and donate partners to singles..
But to me its not the answer as it was not having basic knowledge
and hearing bad ethics when purchasing.
That caused the problem.
And there is more to keeping small primates than the basics of having in pairs of there own kind.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> A Marmoset could not be imprinted with human behaviour, as it's not a human, its a wild animal. Instinct will always take over from imprinted behaviour, to one degree or another, at some point.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Marmosets are not easy to train - how many Marmosets or Tamarins do you see in movies, compared to larger species such as Capuchins.


Imprinted in this case is loosing fear...

Small primates can be steadied in a natural environment,
to the extent that they except there keepers.
But they will bite if handled etc...

They show you the respect that you must return...

Other than if they attack..
Which can happen..
They will keep there monkey play to there own..
Biting etc...

I for one when i go to the parks am more comfortable with a natural monkey than a hand reared climing about me..
Theres more chance of the hand rear attacking you when it doesnt get what it wants...

And yes they cannot be tought to do tricks...

Sorry my spelling hasent improved Colin..


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

glidergirl said:


> Wow! What a thread! *I don't know if anyone has added this,* but here is a link to the Code of Pratice for the Welfare of Privately Kept Non-Human Primates (aka monkeys). http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf It is written by a very experienced primate keeper.





PETERAROBERTSON said:


> *Nice one Glidergirl.*
> This is the revised version.
> Updated in 2009
> Published 2010.




I take it neither of you caught my post on page three of this thread?! :whistling2:

:lol2:


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Lol - I skim read, mainly reading the OP's replies.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

Zoo-Man said:


> A Marmoset could not be imprinted with human behaviour, as it's not a human, its a wild animal. Instinct will always take over from imprinted behaviour, to one degree or another, at some point.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Marmosets are not easy to train - how many Marmosets or Tamarins do you see in movies, compared to larger species such as Capuchins.


surely if u can train a goldfish then you can train a primate yh it may not be easy but then those are the breaks of owning a wild animal. Saying that i used to own ferrets and polecats and ended up with a mink that was found out while ferreting now that thing was the most evil natsy thing with the stongest instincts wild ever and eventually using food i managed to train that to not bite etc so why not with something more intelligent like a primate ?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> surely if u can train a goldfish then you can train a primate yh it may not be easy but then those are the breaks of owning a wild animal. Saying that i used to own ferrets and polecats and ended up with a mink that was found out while ferreting now that thing was the most evil natsy thing with the stongest instincts wild ever and eventually using food i managed to train that to not bite etc so why not with something more intelligent like a primate ?


Sounds all a bit crazy.
They bite when they play and when being monkeys.
See if you can work the mink.
Would be a different story..
Never seen a goldfish doing much either to be honest....
Monkeys are not pets..
And never will be.


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

Well the OP has decided to rehome the monkey, Everyone is on his case 'Take our advise take our advise; Then no body says anything.... Its like all any body like saying is negative things. nope things were far from ideal, but that is also down to who sold him the monkey, as well as himself.
I think he got the animal with the wrong info.. BUT at least hes willing to put it right now and do whats best for the wee thing.:2thumb:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Must have been a tough decision to make, I don't envy the person who has to give up an animal they love, but if you can't provide the best environment and the social interaction it craves it is for the best. 

Hope you find gizmo a nice knowledgable keeper and he settles in well with his new family. :2thumb:


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## norrie_hearty(jnr) (Mar 15, 2010)

Hi Lee I have read over this thread and just wanted to say Hi! I hope that evreything works out for giz!


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