# why did my red eye skink die? (warning- pic of dead lizard)



## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

So, last thursday i picked up my first reptile, a red eyed crocodile skink, ive done a lot of research on them and thought i was capable to look after him.

I got a setup from the reptile shop with the lizard, everything they recomended, i bought, live plants, live substrate, coconut hide, a few other hides, everything i should need, got the crickets from them too, they are medium silent crickets i believe, the neutrobol was from the same place, now as far as i know, the place is popular and well respected. im not going to say where i got him from as if its my fault, i dont want a negative impact on them.

So for the first few days ive owned him, he has not moved around much, he has been hiding in different places but would stay in each place for a long time, and would only move when i was out of the room. Since about saturday, he has mainly been in his coconut half, curled up, he would come out on occasion but not much, i put this down to the fact that they are shy and he was getting used to where he lives. until sunday i didnt put any crickets in the tank with him, i was told not to for a few days until he gets used to his surroundings, but not knowing when he was last fed, i decided i should put some in, i dusted some with neutrobol and put them in, about 5 i believe, may have been 6, cant remember. 

Today he was really active, mum said that while i was at work he had moved to the little pond he has and every time she went into check on him, he had moved around some where else, out in the open, not hiding away as much, this was the first time he went into the pond, so i thought he was getting used to his enclosure and settling in, however, after tea before i was going to work again, he was laid half on his side in the middle of the tank, not moving (pic below of that) i thought he was just scared that i was there, so thought nothing of it, however, i did notice some white stuff on his back earlier today when he was active, it looked kind of like powder. I decided to keep an eye on it and would check on him when i got home, thinking it may just be his markings. 

i got home to find that he had died, mum text me at work saying so, and when i got home it was obvious, his eyes were virtually closed, he wasnt moving at all, i had been at work for 5 hours, he would have moved from the middle of the tank otherwise, it was just obivous, he was gone but i dont know what i did wrong, i had the temps right, under where he was basking it was around 28 celcius, i kept the humidity between 60 and 90% as much as i could i made sure it was atleast 70% i let him settle in before feeding him, made sure the water in his pond was fresh, the plants in the tank are growing fine so the temps and humitity must be fine ( they are high humidity plants, to match the lizard). I just dont know what i did wrong. 

below are images of him after he died with the white stuff clearly visible, sorry i added these but thought it may show what was wrong, the white stuff seemed worse after he died. (note- we picked him up and moved him after he died into a tub)


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Sorry for your loss. Can't really help give you any answers as I don't know anything about this species. But I find it hard to think that after just a week you are at fault. Lizards can go for weeks and months being basly kept before any signs appear. Have you thought about a post mortem? I would also speak to the shop.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

i spoke to the shop and they were utterly useless, i had a 5 day period to take him back, he died on the 6th day, i signed a contract when i bought him saying they would accept him back and replace him if he died in the first 5 days. When i called them they just said they thought it was strange in the most un-caring tone ever, they put it down to the fact that they are easily stressed and thats what killed him, even though the last day before he died he was really active and moving around, the night before he died he even came to the glass and was looking at me. i mentioned the white stuff and they said they had never heard of it before and that was that, nothing they could do and they didnt care at all. I went to another local pet store and asked them about it and they said it sounds like it was wild caught, i mentioned the shop to them and they said that they used to get croc skinks from the same breeder as they did, and that they were wild caught, i bought this guy believing he was captive bred and told he was captive bred.

how would i go about a post mortem, i aint cutting him up, could barely pick him up after he died.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

A vet would do a post mortem but if you don't want him cutting up then a post mortem is not for you as that is what they would have to do. But it would give you answers. Most likely if he was wild caught is parasites or an illness which has overcome him with the stress of the move. The shops reaction is disgusting but not a surprise. This must be very upsetting for you.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

What were the temperatures on the cool side? You're more likely to have gotten a wild caught croc skink. Although there are breeders around, captive bred individuals are harder to come by and are usually more expensive. Wild caught often come in bad condition and can harbour some nasty parasites, infections or injuries. 

The white patches could be shed, fungus or perhaps even residue from water.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

the temps on the cooler side were between 20 and 22 degrees, under the heat, it was about 28. he hardly went into the water until the last day, and i changed the water whenever he wasnt close to it, so it was fresh. He was £100, if thats expensive for them, im not sure. 

One thing that concerned me the day i got him was that, i never saw the tank, the pet shop was undergoing renervations so the back half was closed off, the woman went into the back and brought one out, i checked him over for injuries and parasites and saw none so agreed to that lizard, really i should have checked the tank he came from, but as i said, the shop was undergoing maintanence, so that part was closed off. 

On the contract i signed it said he had to be frozen to return him, so currently he is in the container, wrapped in bags in my freezer, i could get a post mortem done i guess, if i cant sort anything with the pet shop, but i dont think my local vet would know much about lizards.

I cant believe how the shop reacted, they just didnt care, if they dont care about a lizard that they apparently had for a year that they sold, do they really care about the ones they have in store? makes me not want to buy from them again, but they have a really friendly chameleon in stock that i was going to get...


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

If he's frozen, you won't get reliable results from a necropsy. I'd try and push the shop for a refund. 

I also find it a little strange that they had him for a year, croc skinks are quite sought after and often sell quick. £100 is typical of a wild caught animal.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

They had all of them for a year, guess they got them to a year old then sold them, i bought one a week after they went on sale at the place, why they werent sold from babies i dont know, unless they were wild caught.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Again that seems strange to me. Most shops won't invest that much time into an animal that's £100, they won't get the money back for a year's worth of food, electric etc. I've sold croc skinks from around 6 months, they should be established well before a year old. At a year old, they also won't be fully grown. If he's fully grown then they're fibbing.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

vgorst said:


> What were the temperatures on the cool side? You're more likely to have gotten a wild caught croc skink. Although there are breeders around, captive bred individuals are harder to come by and are usually more expensive. Wild caught often come in bad condition and can harbour some nasty parasites, infections or injuries.
> 
> The white patches could be shed, fungus or perhaps even residue from water.


This. 

Most of these are WC, and usually are not red eyes but muddy eyes, with a dull brown or yellow ring rather than a red ring around the eye.
Being WC you have no idea how old it is. They are always imported as adults so they could be in the last few months of their lives. 
Chances are you had done nothing wrong, it was simply an old animal. 
Next time, if you are looking at a lizard other than the usual leopard gecko/bearded dragon/veiled chameleon then I would suggest careful research, and try to find a breeder rather than a shop. That way you will get CB and know its age.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

they didnt tell me he was fully grown, i think they got him from a breeder in december, i just went to find the advert and re-read it, also he was captive farmed, could that explain things?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

kaiscott98 said:


> they didnt tell me he was fully grown, i think they got him from a breeder in december, i just went to find the advert and re-read it, also he was captive farmed, could that explain things?


There is no way that was CB at that price in a shop. A shop will pay a breeder around a third of the price they will sell it in th shop. However a breeder of rarely seen species are not going to sell for peanuts as they know they can sell privately for a better price. 
If you paid £100, and from its size that's an adult, that did not come from a breeder. That was from a wholesaler who would have sold it to the shop for around £20.
Captive farmed is a real misnomer. Basically, if you see something in a shop as captive farmed, then it is wild caught. True farming involves raising adults caught wild and held to harvest eggs or young. 
However Croc skins are not noted for being farmed.
You were conned into buying wild caught sadly. 
Chances are that the shop was also conned by believing their supplier was selling farmed. 
True farmed herps are to all extents the same as CB. 
But as I said, most are in fact wild caught.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

well, shit. that really sucks. is there anyone that captive breeds them in the uk? today i went out and bought a desert horned lizard, and re did the tank for him (cleaned it out thoroughly!!) so dont want another skink yet, but may want one again.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Could you put a copy of the advert on here by any chance? I'm intrigued as to what they put.

As above, I'd consider anything 'captive farmed' to be wild caught. I've always understood captive farmed to mean gravid animals taken from the wild and their resulting eggs being incubated in captivity. If they referred to the supplier as a breeder, that's incredibly misleading.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

kaiscott98 said:


> well, shit. that really sucks. is there anyone that captive breeds them in the uk? today i went out and bought a desert horned lizard, and re did the tank for him (cleaned it out thoroughly!!) so dont want another skink yet, but may want one again.


Yes, there are a few breeders. Keep an eye on the classifieds or Facebook groups. A desert horned lizard? Far more difficult than a croc skink to keep alive and healthy, and your setup as it was is not suitable at all.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

With how they handled the situation, i will post a link to their facebook post advertising them and you can read it yourself. I have nothing against this place, they handled the situation wrong, but ive only spoke to one person, not evreyone who works there, so dont assume the whole place is bad and that every reptile they sell there is gonna die.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

I changed the setup, threw away everything from the old setup, bought new bulbs, sand substrate, a couple rocks etc. had to buy a light dome for the new red bulb i got, the temps are a bit high on the red bulb ( cant remember the name of it) so it needs moving higher up, but have nothing to do that with at the minute. His setup is completely changed compared to the skinks setup dont worry, i traded the medium crickets in for some small black ones and have ordered some harvester ants and some repashy formic-all for his crickets to be dusted in.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

kaiscott98 said:


> With how they handled the situation, i will post a link to their facebook post advertising them and you can read it yourself. I have nothing against this place, they handled the situation wrong, but ive only spoke to one person, not evreyone who works there, so dont assume the whole place is bad and that every reptile they sell there is gonna die.


From my point of view, captive farmed will still hold the same risks as wild caught in terms of parasites, transportation etc. A couple of the skinks in the video appeared a little skinny and showed some of the same white markings that you saw on your guy. This could be trauma from overcrowding, or being badly transported etc. I also don't agree with some of their husbandry recommendations but that's subjective. 



kaiscott98 said:


> I changed the setup, threw away everything from the old setup, bought new bulbs, sand substrate, a couple rocks etc. had to buy a light dome for the new red bulb i got, the temps are a bit high on the red bulb ( cant remember the name of it) so it needs moving higher up, but have nothing to do that with at the minute. His setup is completely changed compared to the skinks setup dont worry, i traded the medium crickets in for some small black ones and have ordered some harvester ants and some repashy formic-all for his crickets to be dusted in.


If I remember rightly, your tank was a 45x45 exo? This is not big enough for the desert horned. They need incredibly high temperatures and in achieving those you won't be providing cool temperatures. Overheating is more dangerous than underheating. You also need strong UV.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

yeah they did look a little skinny i guess, what recomendations dont you agree with?

i have a different, stronger uv bulb too, the tank i have is bigger than the tank that the store i got him from had him in, i asked them if my tank would be ok, they had the same one for sale in store and they said it would be fine for him, i have a thermometer with two different pickups in his tank, one measuring the sand below his basking area, and one on the other side next to his hide, its about 24 celcius outside his hide, but the basking spot gets up to 42 celcius unless i sit there holding the lamp higher then its about 39, which i think is closer to what it should be, tomorow im going out to get some hooks to hang the light from the ceiling a little higher, so the temps wont be as bad.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

I don't agree with the basking temperature or the size requirement. My pair are kept in a 36" x 18" and I wouldn't go smaller with enclosure size.

Please don't always go by pet shop standards, they are not planning on housing them long term and therefore suitable husbandry and tank size is often lacking. I would put desert horneds in a 4ft viv with deep substrate, best 12% UV tube I could find and basking temperatures of 120F (give or take depending on the individuals). They are notoriously difficult to keep alive, so please do your research.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

i have been researching them, i read that 110 farenheight is the highest i should go, i will get a bigger tank when i can, i plan on keeping a few of them so was getting a bigger one anyway, mines about 2/2.5 foot, he seems happy in there, at the minute he is sat on his rock staring at me. i have planned on getting a horned lizard anyway so did research even before i had the skink, it was just lucky that the local petshop (not the one i got the skink from) had one in stock, that id seen there for a few weeks, and that i knew was healthy and quite handle-able.


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

The white powder on his back is probably from the dusted crickets running over him. Id take it back up with the shop if you can, otherwise name them here so no-one else has to deal with an unfortunate incident such as this. It's not your fault, sorry for your loss.


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## kaiscott98 (Mar 29, 2018)

it cant have been, if anything i doubt i dusted the crickets enough, there wasnt much dust on them and the dust stuff got worse after he died. the crickets have been avoiding him a lot.

The place name is in the link i posted its a link to the advert on their facebook page, the advert blew up over facebook and has had thousands of shares and comments. But the places name is ****** **** ****, i dont not recomend going there, there customer service is bad sure, but the lizards that you could see in the entrance looked well cared for and healthy, it could have been an honest mistake on their part getting captive farmed, one bad experience with one type of lizard from there shouldnt stop people going there all together, there has been a lot of good reviews on the place.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Whilst I sympathise with your situation I have removed the name of the shop and the link to their Facebook page. Naming and shaming on an open forum is a legal mindfield. If anyone wishes to know the name of the shop then they can Private Message you.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

If your still interested in getting some of the red eye skinks there is an ad here you may find interesting:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-classifieds/1240858-red-eyed-crocodile-skinks.html


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## sagebellefire (Mar 29, 2021)

i feel so bad for you


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## elishacoombes9 (Sep 5, 2017)

sagebellefire said:


> i feel so bad for you


This is nearly 3 years old...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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