# Eyelash Viper, Temple or Atheris? Hmmm :)



## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

Some years ago my brother and I walked into a good reptile store to buy a lizard or perhaps a snake. Upon buying our first two snakes (florida waterbanded snakes) a friend of the owner stood at the counter and confidently remarked:

"Ahh thats it, you'll be hooked now. Once you buy one, honestly, you won't stop the obsession. They are incredible, amazing animals".

Several snakes later (lizard, spiders etc too!) his words are very true :2thumb:

Sooo...we feel the arboreal Temple, Eyelash or perhaps even an Atheris ceratophora is next to compliment our collection. DWA granted of course. Certainly this one will not be "bare hand handled" so the most beautiful is sought to enjoy its care & proper attention. 

Of these three, any suggestions/advice? 

We currently have a False Water Cobra (very "handable" with respect) and 9ft common boa (gentle giant) plus our Colombian Tegu (very feisty girl and joyous to watch, especially feeding time! lol).


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

All three of those snakes can be difficult to maintain, in fact _Atheris ceratophora_ can be a complete b*stard to keep alive. Wagler's suffer terribly from impaction and require overnight soaking weekly and extremely heavy spraying to get them to drink. _B schlegelli_ can be difficult to get feeding Graeme Skinner (Slippery42) has a couple of those that required assist feeding. Now, imagine assist feeding a snake that's about 4" long and therefore requires a very delicate grip, but will be trying its level best to sink its little fangs in you whilst you're doing it.........

Wagler's are quite a tolerant species and won't give you much grief in the way of trying to have you at every opportunity, schleg's can be feisty and are bloody quick with a strike range of almost their whole body length when they are anchored to a branch and _Atheris_ sp. generally, are bad tempered little sods with quite potent venom.

You seem to like arboreal pitvipers, why not try _C. albolabris_ or, if you have the money _T. trigonocephalus_. Easier to maintain and, in the case of the trig's, not inclined to try and bite you at every chance


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*choosing a viper...*

Stuart thats very good information, cheers. 

Impaction could prove costly and we'll definately think about that. Force feeding one of these guys doesnt sound fun! Yes Atheris has very potent venom although this is a display only viper but yes gotta consider risk of getting bit...not impossible being in their proximity etc. Love ceratophora though.

Am doing detailed research on the white lip you mentioned - both beautiful snakes!! Their natural behaviour certainly sounds appealing :2thumb:

Also will have a "think tank" on impaction and give back a little to the community.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

maffy said:


> Stuart thats very good information, cheers.
> 
> Impaction could prove costly and we'll definately think about that. Force feeding one of these guys doesnt sound fun! Yes Atheris has very potent venom although this is a display only viper but yes gotta consider risk of getting bit...not impossible being in their proximity etc. Love ceratophora though.
> 
> ...


Forgot to add, no arboreal snakes seem to have been told that bit about only being able to strike a third of their body length, they are all able strike to the full length of their body when anchored to a branch and the mood takes them, so bear in mind that adult size of the snake and think how that would affect your ability to maintain it's enclosure on a daily basis.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Anyone coming into the DWA fold and looiing at getting neonate snakes need to seriously think about the issue of assist feeding small/tiny snakes which even at a small size have the potential to cause SERIOUS hurt!!!

As Stuart noted I have three Schelgs all purchased as neonates and ALL needed assisting to start with.

Small, fragile and with large fangs and attitude!!!!

Pinkie parts............fun!!!!!

get it wrong and you injure or kill the snake or get nailed and end up in hospital!!!!


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*viper selection & impaction*

_The bamboo pitvipers are definately a consideration for us, such as the Sri Lankan T.trigonocephalus mentioned - for sure. Totally agree, we are not taking one of these lightly. Personally I do also love the Christmas Tree variation of the eyelash, T.schlegelii - but they're all gorgeous._

_Our experience with florida bandeds taught us to switch to fish from mice...and boy did they take that fishy food!!!! Not sure it will work with pitvipers however they eat frogs so may be inclined._

_Trout and salmon were their favourites and readily available, bone removed and cut into neat chunks. Great for oil/water content too so pls let me know the results/thoughts. Certainly if it works its a good diet, even if in combination._

_Take care, as our waterbandeds went nuts for trout & salmon LOL._

_Full length striking is a serious consideration for us but we will have a very good policy in place. Familiarity plus complacency is a deadly mix. _
_So a big thumbs up for highlighting these issues._

_Even for our 9ft common we have a rule of at least two of us being in the house should a bite ever occur. He's tame as a much loved dog, a viper of course is not :bash:_


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*more thoughts*

i think "viperkeeper" (the american You Tube renowned keeper) appears to have a regular water drinking program for his vipers from what I can observe. He uses a long squeezy water tube with a small end. 

With regular water feeding do you find impaction occurring? He certainly does this each week as a minimum.

Salmon/trout treats may work (like a frog diet supplement in the wild in addition to birds and mice). 

Mites/worms and parasites are another concern to consider and wonder if anyone has a regular program to prevent this occurring. I hope that with the right measures in place we can prevent most common ailments aside from species endemic.

If anyone knows any viper dealers/breeders we'd be pleased to hear from them/you.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Personally, I soak my Trim' weekly regardless of how much she gets sprayed (which is when she drinks) I don't know whether their fluid intake has much of an effect on their prone-ness (is that even a word??) to impaction.

The fish may be a good supplement to a rodent diet or good to scent and stimulate iffy feeders.

As for mites and parasites, buy CB, quarantine your animals and you should never have a problem with these. You could use stuff like Ardap and/or Provent-a-Mite on a monthly basis as a running program of prevention


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*general viper keeping issues*

sounds all good to me. Thoughtful experimentation is always good. When we purchased two Royal Pythons (few yrs back) they weren't feeding too well and we said we'd sort it out. So we just held them higher than prey item and a little tease feeding, patience...bang. Problem solved.

Our boa waits 10 minutes to strike no matter how hungry he is so we leave him in peace.

Err not something you can do with vipers, hold them for din din time!! Below head height strikes seems a good method in my mind. Sticking them in an elevated position whilst offering prekilled prey item from below. But every snake has its own personality for SURE. 

One of our Royals neck squeezes for at least 10 mins whereas our False Water Cobra strikes without hesitation and eats immediately. 

You likely agree i'm sure that the important thing is to keep things as natural as poss i would suppose. Particularly as it maintains the species through next generations from offspring.


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