# Pangolins??? Nerys? anyone!?



## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

I'm in love in Pangolins! Went to the natural history museum in London recently and they're just wonderful! Had a bit of a google but can't find much info on them, and i just wondered if any of you 'Exotic mammal' types (ahem Nerys, Rory! lol) had ever seen them up for sale?

I know they'll probably be way out of my price bracket and need pretty specialist care, but in the future i'd LOVE to consider it seriously! I'm also aware that they're pretty endangered but so are all kinds of species people captive breed and keep as pets!

Just a fun pic for people who've never seen one!


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

all i can say is

i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want, i want. 

Now where was the moeny i was saving for the house lol.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

the specimen in the natural history museum is awesomely cool too! Check them out if you're down that way! You also get Tree pangolins which are cool, but its the big ones i really like!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I remember reading an article once about how they are killed by the thousands every year for their meat, and they are often kept in very poor conditions and killed very inhumanely


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

Oh no! Poor things! On google images there are lots of pics of clothes made from their skin too(if you can call it skin?!lol). they don't look very 'meaty' do they?!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

madness i tell you!... madness! :lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Mmm... you would pick something unusual eh lol.. they are occasionally seen, more in europe than the uk, although they have been brought in in the past that we know of. price wise.. hard to say as they so rarely come up.. not cheap tho, as of course the rarer something is, the higher the price it tends to command.

there are some 7 species of pangolin, most of them being nocturnal, geographically they are found in tropical african (giant, tree and ground) / and 4 in asian areas. the only one rory has seen available in the past is the common ground. however, they are now protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora and trading of the animal and its products is illegal. 

their scales help protect them, they curl into a ball when threatened, and like skunks, they can emit a noxious substance from glands near the tail if provoked. the scales also have very sharp edges, so they make an uncomfy mouthful for most attackers! unfortunately they are not a match for the human predator

they have low reproduction rates in the wild, they live dispersed over large areas, have a long gestation (4-5 months) and most of the species only have a single baby per pregnancy. they do not hit sexual maturity until they are in their second year. that and the diet, with is insect based (ants, termites and so on) means they have not historically done well in captivity.

pangolins, for a long time, did fare badly in captivity generally, and i think there is probably a way to go before they are commonly understood in keeping terms.. depending on the source you look at there are reports that only 11.5% of captive pangolins live past their second year. being that they do not hit sexual maturity until the second year, you can see how there have been issues breeding them in captivity. there are a few places who have managed to captive breed them, Taipei Zoo in taiwan for example i think is one, Nandankana another, rory thinks berlin and moscow too..i'm sure Durrell at Jersey did aswell thinking about it.. no doubt there are others..

they are threatened in the wild by a range of things, habitat loss at one end and over hunting at the other. the scales are believed to have certain magical properties, and the meat is commonly eaten. for isntance i have seen reports from recent years concerning things like the confiscation by vietnamese customs of about 5 tonnes of pangolin meat (around 1480 animals) to be fair, vietnam, although along with china in terms of an appalling record for animal welfare, does now have people fighting to help, for instance The Carnivore and Pangolin Conservation Program...

who are committed to securing a future for wild populations of threatened carnivores and pangolins in Vietnam. We are dedicated to increasing understanding of and inspiring respect for these unique species and empowering people to act to conserve them. (according to their mission statement)

there is, or was, an Asian Pangolin Conservation Project. who list the contact email as [email protected]

also another group here, the *Pangolin Conservation Support Initiative (PCSI)*: SavePangolins.org

in africa, the pangolin is protected by law in in much of its range and occurs in some protected areas, such as Serengeti National Park in Tanzania. there is still a conflict between the conservation efforts and the traditions of the some of the local people though

so... in all honesty, i would say if people are taken by this fascinating little group of animals, the best way to help them, would be to maybe contact some of the conservation groups worldwide and see if there is anything you can contribute.. maybe you could sponsor a bit of field kit.. or even volunteer to go over and have a working holiday.. you never know until you ask, and i am sure anyone who is interested in conserving the species, would love to think there are others up for helping too

hth

Nerys


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

Wow thanks for all the interesting info Nerys, you're a star as always! I will def be donating to the cause, such funky little animals! Never imagined a captive survival rate as low as 11% though! Thats seriously terrible! Hopefully in the future we can learn what we need to to help these beauties and start some successful captive breeding programs


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## Paradoxurus (Jan 10, 2008)

There is just a single captive Pangolin in Europe and that is at Leipzig Zoo. All of the species are incredible difficult to maintain in captivity for several reasons. As has been mentioned Taipei Zoo currently does best with them (thats where the Leipzig animal came from). None have been seen in the UK for many years though London Zoo has made several attempts in the past. Perhaps the most recent in the UK were of the Giant species imported by the Chipperfields to Southampton Zoo in the 1960s. Antwerp seems to have done the best in Europe with them until now though Wuppertal in Germany and the Jardin des Plantes in Paris have held specimens not too long ago.

Oklahoma City Zoo currently holds the longevtity record with one individual living for over 19 years. I cannot recall the species without looking at my notes but this occurence was exceptional.

The current husbandry guidelines, drawn up by Taipei, includes a significant proportion of bee larvae in the diet which probably puts them well beyond the means of most keepers.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Aww, they are really cute!!


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

Awwww it's a cross between an armadillo and a sloth. They are really cute!


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