# Amel het butter breeding



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

So the mrs has an amel het butter corn, rather a nice little thing and im wondering what would be worth breeding her with. Shes our first corn so ive got no idea on what to breed her to. I like butter stripes but im thinking having a butter stripe already or any stripe het butter is the only way to do it in one generation.
So, whats everyones ideas?


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

unless your amel is het stripe you won't get any stripes first generation what ever you breed it too.

Really your best bet is to breed to a visual butter, but anything thats carrying amel or caramel, either visually or as hets, will/should give you visual offspring.


----------



## claire_e_dodd (Sep 18, 2007)

An ultramel het caramel would be good


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

claire_e_dodd said:


> An ultramel het caramel would be good


whats an ultramel? I know about caramels but not ultramels. What would breeding with one of those throw out then?


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

a ultamel is carrying one amel gene and one ultra gene, so het for both, but as they share the same allel the visual appearnce is somewhere between the 2 so a ultamel het caramel crossed with yours would produce

50% ultramels 66% het caramel
25% amels 66% het caramel
25% butters


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Doesnt sound like a bad output, had a look at ultramels and theyre fairly nice. What would you put to it? Im not looking to sell, just expand our collection


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

I would agree with Claire that an ultramel het caramel would go best, as you won't produce any normals.

You could introdcue any morph carrying amel or caramel but you will get a percentage of normals carrying hets, you would need to back breed to bring these hets out in the next generation, but it adds more genes to the mix. Depends a bir on your budget. Heres a quick list a amel and/or caramel containing morphs:-

Ulramel (het amal and ultra)
Amber (hypo caramel)
Amel Cinder (amel & cinder)
Anery Caramel (anery & caramel)
Blizard (amel & charcoal)
Butter (obviously)
Diffused caramel (diffused & caramel)
Fire (amel & diffused)
Golddust (ultramel and caramel) you could prodcue these with the suggest combo above, with back breeding
Honey (sunkissed & caramel)
Lavamel (Lava & Amel)
Opal (amel & lavender)
Snow (amel & Anery)
Topaz (caramel & lava)
Ultra Amber (ultra & caramel) you could also produce these by back breeding from above combo

And thats just double trait morphs........

I would go with ultramel het caramel as suggested and back breed to try and produce goldust and ultra amber.

Then maybe look at throwing something else in.


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Christ, thats loads! I like the look of blizzards though, theyre rather good. I can see this ending up with us going to a show and coming back with loads of stuff.


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

mrhoyo said:


> I can see this ending up with us going to a show and coming back with loads of stuff.


yep :lol2:


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Could be worse i suppose. At least corns are cheap. Much cheaper than the ij. Could do with getting him a gf at some point, think carpet hatchlings might make me a few quid back to invest in others. Shame its going to be a few years until hes old enough!


----------



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Amel het caramel X ultramel het caramel will give you:

3/8 Amel 66% poss het caramel
3/8 Ultramel 66% poss het caramel
1/8 Butter
1/8 Golddust

OR

Amel het caramel X Golddust = 

1/4 Amel het caramel
1/4 Ultramel het caramel
1/4 Butter 
1/4 Golddust


: victory:


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

eeji said:


> Amel het caramel X ultramel het caramel will give you:
> 
> 3/8 Amel 66% poss het caramel
> 3/8 Ultramel 66% poss het caramel
> ...


How? you would need 2 ultra genes to produce a gold dust and you only have 1?


----------



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

golddust is ultramel + caramel, so to get ultramel you only need one ultra and one amel because they are codominant to each other.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Of course, if you wanted a shortcut...

T-Pets has Golddusts.

Cross a Golddust to an Amel het Caramel and you would expect:

25% chance of Amel het Caramel
25% chance of Ultramel het Caramel
25% chance of Butter
25% chance of Golddust


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Sorry if im sounding stupid but shes het butter. Isnt that diff to het caramel? I dont know how it works,i thought butter seperate? Were going to be at tpets tomorrow, should see you there ssthisto


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

An "Amel het Butter" is more correctly an "Amel het Caramel". Because Butter is an Amel Caramel, an animal that's already VISUAL amel isn't "het for Amel and Caramel" (AKA "het butter").

Unfortunately I'm going to be going to T-Pets on Sunday this week


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Thats what i thought after reading our corn book. I wondered how it could be het amel when it was already visual (homozygous is the word for that isnt it? Were still learning!). 
Were going to be missing out on your morph corrections tomorrow then, im sure you can rectify any of matts mistakes sunday instead .
How would we go about getting any pattern morphs into offspring then? Tempted to buy some stripes when we go to donny in sept. Chaz has a gorgeous twin stripe anery in atm and the caramel stripe matt has in is rather spectacular too


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

You wouldn't get any pattern morphs until the second generation.

For example, if you bought the Caramel Stripe male that Matt has in, and bred him to your Amel het Caramel female, you'd expect about half normal het caramel, amel and stripe (AKA "het butter stripe") and half Caramel het amel and stripe. 

Breed two of the Caramel het amel and stripes together and you have:

1 in 4 chance of:
Butter possible het Stripe
Caramel Stripe possible het Amel

1 in 16 chance of:
Butter Stripe

But unless you shell out the £1500 or so that it would cost to get hold of a Tessera, you couldn't get any pattern morphs in the first generation. Tessera is an exception because the trait is either dominant or codominant, and can be reproduced when breeding a carrier to a non-carrier.


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

That doesnt sound bad, so all 1st gen normals would be het for amel butter and stripe? 
If we were to pick up a few random corns at a show would we be better to get more of one sex than another? I know with leos a decent male is best but what about corns?


----------



## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

eeji said:


> golddust is ultramel + caramel, so to get ultramel you only need one ultra and one amel because they are codominant to each other.


Sorry I thought gold dust was Ulta + Caramel, not Ultramel + Caramel.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

mrhoyo said:


> That doesnt sound bad, so all 1st gen normals would be het for amel butter and stripe?
> If we were to pick up a few random corns at a show would we be better to get more of one sex than another? I know with leos a decent male is best but what about corns?


My personal choice would be to get one male who complements two or three females.

For example, a Butter Stripe male could be bred to an Amel het Caramel for amels het caramel stripe and butters het stripe; it could be bred to a normal het Butter Motley for normals het butter stripe, amels het caramel stripe, caramels het amel stripe, motley-het-stripes het butter, amel motley-het-stripes het caramel, caramel motley-het-stripes het amel and Butter motley-het-stripes. And if you just wanted Amel Stripes he'd make those with an Amel Stripe or even a Snow Stripe female.

Generally the way I do it is aim for multiple-homozygous males and multiple-het, single-homozygous females.


----------



## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Sounds like a plan. I hope your going to the donny show in sept, i think i might have to pinch you to tell me whether stuff would be worth breeding!


----------

