# Small tank community?



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

I currently have a 10 gallon tank running with one red claw crayfish in. The crayfish is only about 3.5 inches (from nose tip to end of tail) and so on his own, the tank looks rather empty. I've been doing some research about possible tank mates and have pretty much concluded that without the risk of them eating him or him eating them, theres not really anything that would be compatible. I remembered i still have my novice tank stashed away from when i used to keep my coldwater goldfish when i was younger and was considering turning this into a tropical tank. However its only a 5 gallon tank so i would not be able to fit much livestock in there. I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how i could make the most of my 2 tanks? is putting a divider into the 10 gallon tank an option or would this create too little space for both the crayfish and anything else i add? Any suggestions would be appreciated! I want something different, thats interesting to watch, but i don't want to cause any overcrowding or poor living conditions. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

I dont think you will be able to have anything else in the 10gal.

there are quite a few options for the 5gall though. : victory:

for example, you coul dhave 6 pygmy corys and a sparkling gourami

or you could fill it with lots of caves and have upto 10 bumblebee gobies.

or you could have one betta splenders

or you could have a colony of cherry shrimp

there really are a lot of options, find something you like and do LOTS of research. :2thumb:

and dont forget to cycle your tank. there's a sticky thread on this. :no1:


----------



## Jesterhead (Apr 9, 2008)

go with a betta in the 5 gal, and get him some freindly tanks mates! ghost shrimp, snails, african dwarf frogs! just keep a close eye on all of em!

but the colony of cherry shrimps sounds like alot of fun too!


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Dwarf frogs shouldn't be kept with fish and I would plant the 5 gallon tank up and stock with some Ember tetras and maybe a couple of shrimp.


----------



## Jesterhead (Apr 9, 2008)

Pleccy22 said:


> Dwarf frogs shouldn't be kept with fish and I would plant the 5 gallon tank up and stock with some Ember tetras and maybe a couple of shrimp.


 
how come? I've always heard they were good tank mates??

im not trying to argue lol, just wondering : victory::whistling2:


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Large specimens can eat very small fish and fish will out-compete the frogs for food.


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

If you take the time to feed the frog yourself, then it's absolutely fine. : victory:

Like squirt some bloodworms at him with a pipette =]


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

I still wouldn't keep them with fish. They ideally need a species tank, despite what you may read on the web fish are not good tankmates for African dwarf frogs.


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

I found this whilst rummaging through my Practical fishkeeping collection.

From Colin Dunlop's article on Dwarf frogs, PFK May 2007:

"_Water depth should be at 6-8" (15-20cm)"_

Obviously the water depth requirements for fish and frogs are quite different.

"_Feeding dwarf frogs can be quite a problem in aquariums where they are kept with fish and this is one of the main reasons I don't recommend mixing them. Hemenochirus are very slow and deliberate feeders that prefer live foods such as small shrimps, earthworms and bloodworm. Your fish will also enjoy these types of food and are much faster at finding it than frogs. Unfortunately it is not uncommon for dwarf frogs to starve in a community tank"._


----------



## Jesterhead (Apr 9, 2008)

6-8" sounds like a good depth for betta splendens to me


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

well i have kept dwarf frogs and clawed frogs with fish, and everything was fine. : victory:

Also, I know of a lot of other people who have kept frogs in a community / with fish.


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Many newbies to the fishkeeping hobby won't know how to feed dwarf frogs properly. I still don't recommend it and I wouln't risk it. Ok you can keep Betta splendens in a water depth of 6-8 inches but I wouldn't keep those with frogs, males have been known to kill small fish and frogs.

Esfa: I have kept Dwarf frogs for 3 years and I have had a couple of misfortunes when keeping them with fish, now I know better.


----------



## Jesterhead (Apr 9, 2008)

Pleccy22 said:


> males have been known to kill small fish and frogs.


very true, male bettas are very aggressive (females too lol). even though one male can be kept with a frog, doesnt mean that all bettas can be kept with a frog, all bettas have different personalities, and some are much more aggressive than others. some bettas can however be kept with other dull colored non-invasive and non aggressive fish. the risk of the two not getting along is always there, same as mixing any species. 

many newbies wont know how to feed many species correctly, thus we have these wonderful forums to help those newbies out! ^_^

now, ive never kept african dwarf frog with a betta, or even alone, so I'm gonna have to step outta this convo, and leave it to people who have had experience: victory:


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

My great uncle has 35 years fishkeeping experience (he's given up now though) and he never recommends mixing dwarf frogs with any fish.


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

i know someone who has kept fish for many years and they never recommend keeping any different species of fish together. Does it mean they're right? Nope!


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

That's going a bit off point there Esfa. I was saying that myself and many other people I know don't recommend mixing dwarf frogs with fish, not mixing fish with fish. I look up to these people with experience a lot as they have provided me with lots of excellent advice and have given me help when I needed it.


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

I wasn't being funny myself??

I know someone who has quite a few of these frogs and regularly breeds them. She says they make great tank mates for bettas. :2thumb: She also says they do fine in a community tank, but it is wise not to have any bottom dwellers.


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

I know you weren't, I was just trying to clear things up a bit.


----------



## bullet tooth t0ny (Apr 24, 2008)

bettas aggressive,never had a aggressive one yet.i had to keep mine out of harms why.you have to be careful what you mix bettas with they will get a hard time.even two males will try to keep out of each others why if they can.

i have also seen many dwalf frogs kept with fish....


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks everyone for getting back to me and for all your suggestions, i'll have a google search and let you know what i decide on! :2thumb:


----------



## pokerplayer (Jul 22, 2007)

hummm for a 5 gallon i woud personally recomend
- betta
- shrimps
- african dwarf frogs
- guppies
- sparkling gouramies
- endlers
- bumblebee gobies
- neon tetras

mostly what other people have mensioned before.
not to add fuel to the fire but i belive frogs are fine with fish.. providing they get enough food and have places to hide. i have had many dwarf frogs in the past and currently have 2 in a community tank along with tetras, endlers, platies, shrimps and cories. granted some fish can be aggressive or greedy with food, but keeping an eye on this will help. majority of bettas ive kept have lived with shrimps or frogs. good tank mates if u ask me.

but each to their own. research and patience will always help.
=]


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

I think compatability is due to personality of the individual livestock as well as species. I think its quite possible that some dwarf frogs would get along with fish and others might not. If you read my first post that began this thread, i mentioned looking into tank mates for my crayfish, when doing this i found that many people had their crayfish in an aquarium with other species and were having no problems what so ever, and others had fish disappearing every day, and fish nipping at the cray, this risk was the reason i decided to set up my 5 gallon tank again =)


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

Quote
"_Feeding dwarf frogs can be quite a problem in aquariums where they are kept with fish and this is one of the main reasons I don't recommend mixing them. Hemenochirus are very slow and deliberate feeders that prefer live foods such as small shrimps, earthworms and bloodworm. Your fish will also enjoy these types of food and are much faster at finding it than frogs. Unfortunately it is not uncommon for dwarf frogs to starve in a community tank"._[/quote]
Quote

Well this suggests that esfa's feeding the frogs with a pipette would work, that way you ensure the frogs don't starve. It doesn't suggest the frogs and fish would cause eachother any harm, just a food issue, which is easily remedied


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

sorry jesterhead - only just saw your post about personalities! I agree though!


----------



## Jesterhead (Apr 9, 2008)

rebecca1987 said:


> sorry jesterhead - only just saw your post about personalities! I agree though!


 
NP, just glad to help!: victory: dont forget to keep us posted! with pictures!!!:lol2:


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

esfa, can u explain the cherry shrimp colony a bit more?! sounds interesting. what would be needed in the tank plant/decor wise? how many would a "colony" consist of? Thanks!


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

A colony of cherry shrimps can be as little as six, this species will breed if looked after correctly.

A tank devoted to cherry shrimps should be heavily planted. An attractive planting style known as 'Amano' which was created by Japanese nature aquarium fan Takashi Amano, consists of special rocks (web link below) which are covered in a plant known as Riccia, the foreground is planted heavily with Hairgrass. These plants need good lighting and CO2.

Web link for rocks (click on planting decor on the side menu and click on rocks and then scroll down until you find aquascaping rocks): Aqua Essentials.


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

Also I forgot to add, aqua essentials also sell cherry shrimps. Click on invertebrates on the side menu.


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks Luke! :2thumb:


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

you could also "plant" with fake plants if you cant be bothered ith live plants. : victory:

in a 10gal, you could probably have upto 100 shrimp :2thumb:


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

:2thumb: my cousin has just dug out a 10 gallon tank that she had forgotten she had! so i now have a 5 gal and a 10 gal to populate! : victory: had a look round my local aquatic store yesterday and am now thinking of having a couple of african dwarf frogs in the 5 gal, and shrimps in the 10 gal. Can i have any fish in with the shrimp or will it have to be solely for the shrimp?
Thanks!


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

rebecca1987 said:


> Can i have any fish in with the shrimp or will it have to be solely for the shrimp?
> Thanks!


Otos are 100% shrimp friendly, there's no other fish that i can think of that wont eat the baby shrimp. : victory:


----------



## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

When ever i kept ADF, was when i bought a Betta at the same time: victory:


----------



## rebecca1987 (Jun 23, 2008)

yeah i asked my aquatic store the other day about what they would suggest with african dwarf frogs and they said a single betta as long as you use sinking food for the frogs and ensure the frogs actually get to this before the fish. i still can't decide what to get for my tanks! theres so many different options to choose from! wish i had the tank space to try all of them! My tanks are busy cycling at the moment, so i have a little more time to make my decisions! lol : victory:


----------

