# Hand-rearing?



## genevie (Jul 12, 2011)

So, I'm new to the world of exotics in general. It's something I began to take an interest in when it became impossible to find any domestic animal that my mother really _liked_. The two exotic mammals I've done the most research on (as pets) are wallabies and genets. When researching genets, all but one of the sources said that hand-rearing is definitely the way to go with no problems. With wallabies, I believe it was the same for all the sources, all recommended hand-raising from a young age.

Of course, being new to this, I had absolutely no idea that selling an unweaned animal was against the law. I'd seen it mentioned so frequently, I logically assumed that it was legal. So now I know it's illegal, can anyone explain to me the reasons behind this?

I'm trying to read up on it now, but I feel like the information I've received is very conflicting. With wallabies and genets, sources were saying that hand-rearing makes pets well bonded to their owners as well as tamer and generally more "friendly" all round. But now, I'm reading that hand-rearing makes for unstable adults who will attack humans because they lack fear.

Am I missing something? I understand why it's bad to hand-rear an animal when you don't know what you're doing, but with all this conflicting info on doing it properly I don't know what to think!  Is there some factor that just doesn't apply to some mammals like genets and wallabies, or are they lying, or..?

Also, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the finer details of this law are when it comes to breeders hand-rearing themselves, or breeders "fostering" the unweaned animal to a new owner, or even breeders giving the pet away without receiving a fee? I haven't been able to find the legislation online.

Thanks in advance  I really just want to make sure I'm as well-informed on this whole issue as possible, because I literally didn't know anything about the negatives.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Issue #1 Weaning - It is illegal to sell a mammal before it is weaned, that is a fact. 

Issue #2 Hand Rearing vs Parent Rearing - I can 100% understand your confusion but sadly, when information is published on the Internet it is often repeated by others or copy & pasted onto others sites which as you say, makes it seem true because different people appear to be saying the same thing.

The fact is, it used to be accepted that hand reared animals make better companions but that view is now badly outdated, but as with the dominance theory in dogs, it continues to be perpetuated on the Internet.

I believe this theory came about due to the fact we automatically humanise animals and presumed that we could emotionally replace an animal's mother. Works ok until maturity when the animal can become confused and develops poorly due to having little or no contact with it's own species during its critical learning stage.

That theory is now being fazed out in light of the socialisation argument. In other words, the latest view is that instead of trying to bond with an animal and having it 'believe' it is human (sounds ludicrous doesn't it), we now attempt to social an animal at it's young impressionable stage, so that it becomes a well adjusted but sociable adult. Well adjusted to its own species and has learned how to behave and mature naturally, but well socialised to humans due to having positive experiences and plenty of careful handling during early development.


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## genevie (Jul 12, 2011)

Pouchie said:


> Issue #2 Hand Rearing vs Parent Rearing - I can 100% understand your confusion but sadly, when information is published on the Internet it is often repeated by others or copy & pasted onto others sites which as you say, makes it seem true because different people appear to be saying the same thing.
> 
> The fact is, it used to be accepted that hand reared animals make better companions but that view is now badly outdated, but as with the dominance theory in dogs, it continues to be perpetuated on the Internet.
> 
> ...


Thank you! This makes a lot of sense, I never really thought about it in that way. I have criticised people before for trying to humanise their pets, somehow it just never clicked that hand-rearing is another attempt of this.

With Genets it probably was a case of people just copying the information. With Wallabies there were many individual breeders who swore by hand-rearing, but their own information was probably outdated so that makes sense. Is there a different law in the US, because a lot of the sites I saw were American.

So I'm thinking to get the most tame and stable animal with the most pet-like qualities, you let the parent rear their young (as long as they are capable, of course) and just make sure they have plenty of exposure to humans, human touch, human voice etc during their youth?

I definitely think one of the appeals of exotics is that they have this almost other-wordly quality that you don't get from domestics, it's like they have a magic that can be observed when it's not tampered with. But at the same time, I think it's nice to have an animal that is as tame and pet-like as possible, so that you get to experience every side  Not that I would expect an exotic pet to be as attached to a human as a typical dog or cat! Just more like a pet than a crazy wild being.

I'm so grateful for the expertise of this forum, really


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Yes, broadly speaking it is a different kettle of fish in the US entirely.
We have a much more zoological approach in the UK, thankfully.

If you want my advice, I would say lower your expectations. The real attraction of wild animals is that they are wild and you get to observe them in all their beauty and watch their fascinating behaviours. If you can develop a bond with an exotic that allows you to stroke them and be close in a way that you can be with most domestic 'pets', then you should consider yourself honoured. If you approach exotics keeping with expectations of a cuddly wild animal or something that looks wild but acts domesticated, you'll be disappointed. 
What you may get, is something inbetween.

Remember, if you obtain a Genet, it may be captive bred and perhaps 2 or 3 generations from wild. This is still a long way off from usual pets who may have been raised with and by humans for 10,000 years.


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## genevie (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm probably coming across as having higher expectations than I do have! I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to end up with a genet who was totally wild and preferred to be observed rather than stroked. I'd just prefer to have one more in between than completely wild, as I'm sure many people would  And looking through the old classifieds on here, it seems that it's definitely possible for parent-raised genets to have a "cuddly" aspect. I'm definitely not expecting any miracles, and tbh if they did act too much like a domestic animal I think it would take away from that majesty they have.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Then you have what you need to be a successful exotics keeper :2thumb:
The trick is bending to fit the needs of the animal and never trying to mould the animal into what you want it to be.


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## Indicus (May 3, 2009)

We own and breed wallabiesand we are always getting people contact us asking if we have and young joeys that they can handrear. All htese people use the same "we have experience in handrearing" line, but we have come to think this actually means they have no experience at all because if they did and fully under stood what it involved they wouldn't intentionally want to subject themselves to it.

A very yiung joey needs to be fed every 2 hours, which sounds do able at first, but then you have to consider everything else involved as well.
Mixing the formula and getting it to the right temp could take 10 mins, then the actual bottle feeding, this can take a couple of mins upto 20 mins depending on the joey. Then the bottle, mixing cup, spoons etc all need washing and the bottle and teat should be steralized like you would a baby after every feed.
So the entire process could take more then 40 mins per feed if done properly.
Then you need to toilet the joey, which should be encouraged every hour in a young joey.
So feeds every 2 hours, toileting every hour, then play time, you might be lucky to get 40 mins sleep at any one time.

Joeys also can't regulate there own tempeture properly so it is up to you to keep them warm. 
Joeys hate being left alone, even if you need the loo, they will make a fuss. I use to take joeys to school with me, under my uniform, peole would come up to me and ask if I was preggers, nope I just have a wallaby under my top,lifting my top to reveal a joey strapped to my tummy, they use to just give me 'that' look, say 'kay and walk off lol.

Hand rearing is very rewarding, but I would never recommend someone purposely removing from the mother to do it, it is just too much work. Wallabies also do calm down nicely when parent reared, I can stroke all my joeys in their mothers pouches and give them treats, it just takes slightly longer to build trust.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Plus there is the nutritional side of it. Each species has their own milk and each milk changes in nutritional value from birth to weaning.

I fail to believe that can be replicated.


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## NexivRed (Jul 11, 2012)

Absolutely with the species milk part. Any formula you feed an animal is just going to be extremely substandard, that to subject an animal to it just so it's more cuddly is completely immoral. 

I had to rear one of my cat's kittens and she is significantly smaller than her brothers. It's completely down to the lack of mother's milk. I doubt there's a lot of funding for making animal formula's anything like the specific species (like they do for humans), so you're going to feeding an extremely poor replacement. I personally think it's cruel and should only be used in emergencies.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Have to disagree with that one! Sorry!

Yes, you are right and every mammal's milk will be different, but that doesn't mean to say an animal fed on a different milk will always en up smaller than it should be.

I handreared 2 red squirrels from about 14 days old (weighing 38g &40g respectively) on the mix I always use, which is full fat goats milk, pro-biotic yoghurt and ABIDEC baby vitamins. Although with some species I add double cream too, I didn't with these 2 squirrels.

They lived in my house (outside later on) for 5 months and then I moved them to a release pen in a red squirrel area. When it came time to release them the lady who had found them came to see their release and commented on how much bigger they were than the reds currently visiting her garden.


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## NexivRed (Jul 11, 2012)

I didn't say they'd all be smaller, I commented on how _my _cat was smaller, ergo she had a visual effect on not having the food nature intended. Other animals will have non visual effects, but they will be affected none the less.

Like I said, it's for emergencies. Thankfully many many animals survive on alternative milks, but they're lucky. I think to purposefully deny an animal the chance to nurse from it's mother is cruel.


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