# Help sexing hognose



## Frostiesmux (10 mo ago)

Hi everyone, i 'm new in the reptile world, and i bought an hognose from a pet shop 1 month ago.. eats a lot ahah.
The Seller told me It was a male... But the more I look at the tail... The more i think It could be a female 😅 it's like aroind 20 cm long and 3-4 months old.
Really Need some help... ♥ Thanks


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

With most species of snake you can't tell by looking at them, the only way to be sure is to have them probed by someone experienced in probing, but sometimes even that isn't 100%


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Male.
Hogs are 90% of the time simple to reliably sex visually.
Occasionally you get a female with a longer tail but yours is definitely male.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

I presume you’ve done some research and are aware that Hognoses are rear-fanged and as such are classed as mildly venomous.


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## Frostiesmux (10 mo ago)

I reserched like 3 months by internet and literature... That's why i'm so concerned about sex since to me really seems a long trailed female as the cloaca Is really big too... And has quite of and appetite... 
Also the tail drops a bit in the cloaca regione and it's not perfectly continus..








About venom... That's more like a lightly toxic saliva...


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Frostiesmux said:


> I reserched like 3 months by internet and literature... That's why i'm so concerned about sex since to me really seems a long trailed female as the cloaca Is really big too... And has quite of and appetite...
> Also the tail drops a bit in the cloaca regione and it's not perfectly continus..
> View attachment 361260
> 
> About venom... That's more like a lightly toxic saliva...












Hospital stay included ..











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## Frostiesmux (10 mo ago)

You had really bad luck i guess too... Hognose owner i know got bitten but had only kind of a wasp puncture sign and nothing more.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Frostiesmux said:


> You had really bad luck i guess too... Hognose owner i know got bitten but had only kind of a wasp puncture sign and nothing more.


Kinda like Russian Roulette though depending on the individual and the type of bite I guess 

If you or anyone is hyper sensitive to anything maybe best to be really careful 


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Frostiesmux said:


> I reserched like 3 months by internet and literature... That's why i'm so concerned about sex since to me really seems a long trailed female as the cloaca Is really big too... And has quite of and appetite...
> Also the tail drops a bit in the cloaca regione and it's not perfectly continus..
> View attachment 361260
> 
> About venom... That's more like a lightly toxic saliva...


Ok. 
Two points. First off, yes it's always possible you have a long tailed female. I had a "male", visually sexed by an extremely experienced breeder as such, that turned out to be female. No complaint there! Only probing will confirm.
But secondly, please don't fall into the trap of repeating false information as fact.
Hognose venom is NOT a "lightly toxic saliva".
Allow me to explain why.
Venom is, quite literally, toxic saliva. So that statement is instantly self contradictory. 
But is it mild? Well, nobody has ever died from a hoggie bite. But I can also assure you that the small number of us that have been bitten will all tell you that it is agonising. And in some cases led to serious and long term damage to the immune system.. 
I have kept and bred many hognoses, including a second species, the Mexican hognose, which I had the first UK captive breeding.
I have also had the opportunity to closely examine a dead large adult female Western hognose. What I saw really did surprise me.
The so called "rear fangs" actually sit under the eye, so are better described as "mid fanged". But even more funky was the fact that on both sides of the upper jaw, those fangs were 1) hinged and 2) sheathed.
This is the same as vipers.
What this also explains is the disparity between bites of many that are asymptomatic and some that are symptomatic of envenomation. 
Hogs can choose whether to use those fangs or not.
This would explain why those that have experienced symptoms of envenomation, myself included, have ALL described a feeding bite rather than a defensive bite.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Frostiesmux said:


> You had really bad luck i guess too... Hognose owner i know got bitten but had only kind of a wasp puncture sign and nothing more.


That would have been a dry bite. A full on bite would have put them on their arse & into A&E.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> Kinda like Russian Roulette though depending on the individual and the type of bite I guess
> 
> If you or anyone is hyper sensitive to anything maybe best to be really careful
> 
> ...


Or it's a dry bite whenever there are no venom symptoms.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Frostiesmux said:


> I reserched like 3 months by internet and literature... That's why i'm so concerned about sex since to me really seems a long trailed female as the cloaca Is really big too... And has quite of and appetite...
> Also the tail drops a bit in the cloaca regione and it's not perfectly continus..
> View attachment 361260
> 
> About venom... That's more like a lightly toxic saliva...


Try popping the snake. Roll your thumb along the underside of the tail- if it's male the hemipenes should pop out.


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## Frostiesmux (10 mo ago)

That's a nice advice... I'll try it


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

wilkinss77 said:


> Try popping the snake. Roll your thumb along the underside of the tail- if it's male the hemipenes should pop out.


With all due respect, unless someone has actually been shown how to pop a snake, I don't think it's advisable to suggest they try and do this. Like probing, if not done correctly there is a chance that damage can be done. I still recommend that the OP takes the snake to someone experienced in probing (like a vet or breeder - both of which should have sexed the snake before it was sold.)


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## 228331 (10 mo ago)

Frostiesmux said:


> Hi everyone, i 'm new in the reptile world, and i bought an hognose from a pet shop 1 month ago.. eats a lot ahah.
> The Seller told me It was a male... But the more I look at the tail... The more i think It could be a female 😅 it's like aroind 20 cm long and 3-4 months old.
> Really Need some help... ♥ Thanks
> View attachment 361255
> ...


In royal pythons it tends to depend on length of tail end .


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Legseleven said:


> In royal pythons it tends to depend on length of tail end .


Never heard that before. Royals are even harder to sex visually given the heavy body structure... even probing isn't 100% as they can clamp down around the pockets so males get probed as females.

Normally thin rat snakes and the like tend to be easier as the bulge near the cloaca to house the hemipenes is more obvious.


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## DoctorGreen. (Jun 2, 2019)

Frostiesmux said:


> That's a nice advice... I'll try it


If someone needs advice in how to sex a snake, popping or probing is way above their skillset.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Legseleven said:


> In royal pythons it tends to depend on length of tail end .


We're talking about a hog though, not a python.


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## Frostiesmux (10 mo ago)

I didn't tryed popping yet anyway cos he/She Is near shedding so i'm gonna leave It alone in peace till the end of the process..


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Frostiesmux said:


> I didn't tryed popping yet anyway cos he/She Is near shedding so i'm gonna leave It alone in peace till the end of the process..


Have you been shown how to pop a hatchling (adults should never be popped) and I don't mean by watching a you tube video ? - If not then take the snake to someone experienced enough to probe it, even if that means buying the guy a coffee / beer !


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Frostiesmux said:


> I didn't tryed popping yet anyway cos he/She Is near shedding so i'm gonna leave It alone in peace till the end of the process..


Please don't.
You need to be shown how to do it.
Popping can be extremely risky unless you know what to do.


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## Astro (Dec 20, 2012)

Please do not try 'popping' western/plains hognoses! It's not a suitable technique for the species and you can do them serious spinal injury due to the force needed (and even for the species you can use it on, it should only be done on very young hatchlings who are still flexible enough for it).

Visual sexing and probing (when old enough) are two ways to sex w/p hognoses. From the eye size and tail length I would say male (a typical female tail would be about 2/3rds or less than the length of yours). It would be unusual to have a female w/p hog with a tail that long, though outliers do exist!. The only thing that would cast a crumb of doubt in my mind is they do have quite a full meaty head which can be a more typical female head shape. though i've seen males with a fuller head so it's not that uncommon.

Another visual thing would be adult size with males being quite a bit smaller than females, so it's likely that will become more apparent as they approach adulthood. Probing is generally done by an experienced vet or breeder on adult snakes so you might have the wait a couple of years for the final confirmation either with size or probing. Or if they start laying infertile eggs... 
So yeah, I would lean towards male unless proven otherwise


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