# Cryptosporidium MUST READ



## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Guys, Cryptosporidium parasite has been found in the water of northamptonshire and surround areas.....

DO NOT GIVE THIS WATER TO YOUR REPTILES ! even boiled it will still pose a risk, id suggest using bottled water untill it has long been sorted !

Please dont ask me questions about crypto, as i dont know alot about if, however this is giving people sickness and diarea, so if its strong enough to affect humans im assuming its bad enough to affect reps !


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

i think crypto is found in all water.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

if it was, all our reptiles would be dead...


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

can anyone calrify please what this really means short and long term... its worrying and if anyone has more detailed facts it might help? Im wondering if crypto in the water can be at different levels or if its either there or not.... there seems to be conflicting info when ive tried to look at reports on the net... maybe if someone more experienced can help answer a few questions...

1. if peopel in these areas have been giving tap water in the last few weeks they are in danger and how could they tell?? 

2. if anyone buying or selling in these areas recently have been giving tap water would there be signs and if so what would they be ?? 

3. Is there a test for any issues it may cause reps??

4. is there any long term issues if a rep has drunk infected water.. for example would this bug live in the rep long term or would it kill them and is there any treatment??

5. would other reptiles be at risk if someone bought from a person in this area and took an animal back home to their own collection??


Im asking out of interest and because a friend of mine has booked snakes to colect from northamptonshire... and she does not use the internet..

ive no idea who might know the answers to these questions but i am sure it will be something a lot of people in thse areas wil want to know..

thanks


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## Nick417 (Apr 19, 2007)

From a little bit of googling it appears that_ Cryptosporidium parvum _is the one that affects mammals (i.e humans)and _Cryptosporidium __serpentis _is the one that affects reptiles. They are not the same and as such the water should be perfectly safe for reptiles.

See link below

REPTILIAN CRYPTOSPORIDIOSIS

Nick


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Nick417 said:


> From a little bit of googling it appears that_ Cryptosporidium parvum _is the one that affects mammals (i.e humans)and _Cryptosporidium __serpentis _is the one that affects reptiles. They are not the same and as such the water should be perfectly safe for reptiles.
> 
> See link below
> 
> ...


 
ahh thats reassuring..

well not really with regards to mammals but with regards to reptiles it is...


its important we get proper clarification of this...

i think the threads been posted in all the animal section on rfuk so might be important to clarify as much as we can to avoid worrying


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

If you live there, you know the parasite is in the water, possibly for the next few weeks. Boiling the water _will_ make the water safe. It may be worse for us than reptiles but personally I would play it safe rather than sorry. I would definitely be boiling the water if I lived in that area and was giving it to the reps.

And if you live there, remember to boil it for everything, even brushing your teeth!


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

there seems to be conflicting info... whether it affects reps or not

and the worry is IF and only IF it affects reps... theres plenty of peeps been giving their pets water before it was confirmed


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

have called for clarification to the aqua culture studies dept at the UNi they confirmed the human one cannot affect reps...

so it LOOKs as though its ok but id boil and cool the water anyway to be safe


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

freekygeeky said:


> if it was, all our reptiles would be dead...


no they wouldnt. differant strains.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Cryptosporidiosis in Snakes


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

i live here, right in the middle.. typical eh.
i heard about it last night so have boiled all mine again.
i think i will make a habit of it now, never can be too safe.
if it is boiled it if safe to humans, not sure who said it wasnt.


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

crypto is a naturally occuring bactieria, boiling water does kill it!!!
however boiling water for your reptiles concentrates flouride and minerals in the water which isnt good for your reps.
Bottled water until the crypto virus is removed from the water supply


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

bottled water? thats like gold here,seriously.. at 5 this mornng people were walkingout of shops with trolley fulls... people over panic i think.


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

cornmorphs said:


> bottled water? thats like gold here,seriously.. at 5 this mornng people were walkingout of shops with trolley fulls... people over panic i think.


yeah some people are like sheep. just think how many people drive off to the petrol station when theres a slight hint of a strike.
see if you can order some to be put away for you from your local shop or super market.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

the thing is, there are a few people on this and the other thread of the same that are going to scare the life out of somepeople.
its been chased up, and its small amounts of thr human form,so whil i agree boiling is a good idea, i dont think peopl should be going over the top.. warning is fine, but keep it at that.
i dont want anyone suggesting that everyone is northamptonshire has it in their collections, as that simpl wont be true.
maybe some will? i guess we'll soon find out


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## athy59 (Jan 30, 2008)

*re Crypo*

*Why its a good idea if possible, to have a water butt in a garden.*
*Also Microwaving water will Kill anything. *
*I cant abide Water, in some areas it contains High Nitrates as well.*
*Why My birds/reps dont get water from the Tap. UGH *


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

io tell you what, the water after it has been boiled tastes evil. i even have orange in it and can still taste.. its foul or is it fowl? lol


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## Blazin (Mar 25, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> io tell you what, the water after it has been boiled tastes evil. i even have orange in it and can still taste.. its foul or is it fowl? lol


thats not normal lol... i havent had water since, only some bottled water.


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## Blazin (Mar 25, 2007)

IS there anyway i can find out about which villages will be affected? it doesnt state them anywhere however i did ring up to find out about my village and a local one and they are both affected yet havent been told. takes the mick really, they need to actually have a map of where is affected.


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

HI Sparkle 
here you go some answers 
round two this happend in essex a few years back 

1. if peopel in these areas have been giving tap water in the last few weeks they are in danger and how could they tell?? 

A Yes any animal which Has drunken water from the contaimated source is a risk all auto immune suppress people and animals are at high risk 
The only way to know is having a fecal done if you suspect anything some times a feacal is only done once in my experience it needs to be done a few times as crypto does not always show up.

2. if anyone buying or selling in these areas recently have been giving tap water would there be signs and if so what would they be ?? 

The first symptoms I find are general quiteness first then the reptile will carry on more or less as normal but weight loss will be rapid. Most reptiles will carry on eating and will waste away.

3. Is there a test for any issues it may cause reps??
have a feacal done if symptoms present.

4. is there any long term issues if a rep has drunk infected water.. for example would this bug live in the rep long term or would it kill them and is there any treatment??

Its a parasire designed to move from water to its host so they are tough Hydrogen peroxcide will kill the Oocysts.

5. would other reptiles be at risk if someone bought from a person in this area and took an animal back home to their own collection??

yes new animals can be carriers sheding the Oocysts and look healthy.


Im asking out of interest and because a friend of mine has booked snakes to colect from northamptonshire... and she does not use the internet..

yes but no need to panic the water supply should be cleared very very quickly this is a serious threat to humans I beleive people were in hospital for weeks last time so its in their interest.

Check with your supplier what they are doing in response to the situation also remember the chemicals used to clense the water are nasty to reptiles so its best to use a product such as watersafe .
many thanks Paula 

ive no idea who might know the answers to these questions but i am sure it will be something a lot of people in thse areas wil want to know..

thanks[/quote]


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

the one of buying from people in the area.. the simple answer is, if you are worried then you shouldnt buy. dont let the buyer make the decision, do it for them.
i am looking to go to barking, and unless i find anything in my collection, i will proceed to go to the show.
if people dont want to buy from me and they think there is/may be a risk, then thats no problem, it really is their call.
I will only be concidered being irresponsible if i KNOW i have a problem and still sell, at this point i do not have one.
The thing people keep forgetting is, the reptiles shouldnt be in any harm, its the human form, not the animal form. YES take precautions of course, you'd be silly not to, but my conclusion is, that at this point there is no issue with reptiles.
BUT i will say, if i find i have a problem i will not take any snakes to the show at all.
Thats all i can personally say on it,i presume i few of the comments in this thread are aimed at me without mentioning my name.. so there you have it.


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## Blazin (Mar 25, 2007)

Molly75 said:


> HI Sparkle
> here you go some answers
> round two this happend in essex a few years back
> 
> ...


[/quote]


you say all this affecting reptiles however what about what others have said (different strains of it, this one inparticular not affecting reptiles)


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

Blazin said:


> IS there anyway i can find out about which villages will be affected? it doesnt state them anywhere however i did ring up to find out about my village and a local one and they are both affected yet havent been told. takes the mick really, they need to actually have a map of where is affected.


sorry dude, didnt see this.
look on northants 96,there is a link. it gives you all the areas, i believe you are in it.. but take precautions and dont panic.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

you say all this affecting reptiles however what about what others have said (different strains of it, this one inparticular not affecting reptiles)[/quote]
this one is the human form


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

No one should panic as it wil be minute amounts and they have to disclose the information bear in mind Essex was affected last time and how many peoples reps got ill very few  

p xx


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## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

Blazin said:


> IS there anyway i can find out about which villages will be affected? it doesnt state them anywhere however i did ring up to find out about my village and a local one and they are both affected yet havent been told. takes the mick really, they need to actually have a map of where is affected.


http://http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/index.php?sectionid=135&contentid=878&parentid=0


The following areas are affected:
Ashby St Ledgers, Badby, Boughton, Boughton Green, Braunston, Brixworth, Bugbrooke, Byfield, Canons Ashby, Catesby, Chapel Brampton, Charwelton, 
Church *B*rampton, Collingtree, Cottisbrook, Daventry, Dodford, Duston, Everdon, Farthingstone, Fawsley, Flore, Gayton, Grange Park, 
Great Houghton, Hannington, Hardingstone, Harlestone, Harpole, Hellidon, Holcot, Kislingbury, Milton Malsor, Moulton, Nether Heyford, Newnham, Northampton: - Castle Northampton - Delapre Northampton - Kingsley Northampton – Weston Northampton - Abington Northampton - Billing Northampton - Boughton Green Northampton - Eastfield Northampton - Ecton Brook Northampton - Headlands Northampton Kingsthorpe Northampton - Lumbertubs Northampton - Parklands Northampton - Spencer Northampton - St Crispin Northampton - St David Northampton - St James Northampton -Thorplands Northampton - Norton, Old Overstone, Pitsford, Preston Capes, Rothersthorpe, Scaldwell, Staverton, Stowe, Nine Churches, Sywell, Upper Heyford, Upton, Walgrave, Weedon Bec, Welton, Woodford cum Membris, Wootton.

Only once drinking water has been boiled and allowed to cool should it be used for drinking, preparing food or cleaning teeth. This advice also applies to pets.

http://http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/assets/Northants/AnglianWater_boil_notice_Q&A_update.pdf


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

I have noticed alot of people saying its ok its not the form that will affect your reps... this may be the case, id still boil/bottle water to be safe.

but the other point your all missing is, reptiels can still carry the human form.... so they can pick it up, and pass it on to their keeper, without showing any symptoms themselves !


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

and you keep postin it on every thread too.
how many of these did you actually start kev? i found 3 so far


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Hi Nigel. 

At the risk of being even more unpopular, I have to say that whether you like it or not, Kev is right. There is no changing that fact. For people like you Nigel that doubt that the human form can affect animals, ask yourselves why then do the water boards advise to *not give to your pets either.* Seems a daft statement to make if pets are unaffected, don't you think? Anyhow I have seen snakes with the human form of crypto, and it is terrible. Most creatures including us humans just become ill and recover, but it is a one way trip for snakes, and that is to death. It is a horrible way to go too, with much suffering towards the end, watching the snakes fitting out, and going mad, and biting at themselves, etc. In cases that were exposed to crypto, it took up to a year as well, for it to fully come out, and as I recall trying to test the others showing no systems took at least 5 or 6 fecal tests for it to show, due to it not being shed at all times. 

With snakes, it affects their stomach lining, which become thicker and thicker until a snake say eating a giant rat, can only manage a pinky mouse, and at the end cannot even keep down a few drops of water as the stomach is no more. It is devastating, and highly contagious, so once in a collection will whip through quicker than anything else. With this in mind it really is not something that should be left to chance and so action should be taken *NOW* to hopefully avoid this terrible risk, and hope that you have acted soon enough. 

For others, buying snakes from the area, you should be placing them in quarantine anyhow for a year, if you wish to play safe with the risk of crypto and all over viruses out there. If you don't adhere to that sort or timing, then you are not allowing for the full incubation time.

Reptiles have a very rough deal with crypto and at one stage the question came up of, 'what if we were to give the reptiles a longer period of survival to see if they could then fight off this bacteria as many other animals do, so it was decided to take a corn snake and operate on it, and the Vet very skillfully removed all of the thickened stomach lining, leaving the stomach as it should have been.This was then stitched up carefully, and then tested for leaks before the snake was fully closed. It was amazing surgery which I was proud to been able to witness, whilst keeping a close watch on the patient too. I brought the snake home and cared for it for months,but it sadly went back down hill again and was put to permanent rest before the onset of pain. Whilst this snake was in my care I had to don disposable paper suits, and hair had to been enclosed with a hood, and I could not risk touching anything outside of that viv housing the corn snake. It was a total nightmare to keep the crypto contained within, but it was done thanks to the training I had been given whilst with a very good Vet.

Mo. 

PS This whole post is not directed straight at you Nigel, but for everyone reading here that it could affect, and for those that have an interest in learning more about the facts in case one day it comes their way which is quite possible.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Maureen Collinson said:


> Hi Nigel.
> 
> At the risk of being even more unpopular, I have to say that whether you like it or not, Kev is right. There is no changing that fact. For people like you Nigel that doubt that the human form can affect animals, ask yourselves why then do the water boards advise to *not give to your pets either.*


It's because it's a mammal strain not a human specific one. A majority of pets fit into that catagory:whistling2:


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

cornmorphs said:


> and you keep postin it on every thread too.
> how many of these did you actually start kev? i found 3 so far


5, 

its posted in everythread cause i think its important !!!! 

tbh, i dont know why i bother, its not as if it affects me, just trying to help other people ! and all i seem to get is people whinging, why you posting this everywhere its not THAT big a deal bla blah

all im trying to do is make sure NO ONE has to get this in their collections, not make people think they have !


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

it seens as though as i said this particular crypto isnt able to pass to reps... but i called two places a vet teaching school that specialises in reps and an aqua studies dept.. in stirling uni

As for breeders/ sellers and buyers in general... I only kept snakes for 2/3 years when i was younger... and i didnt know anyone else that had them so i never encountered the red tape and politics unitl the last 2 yrs when i started keeping again...


But i have noticed more and more sellers that offer aftercare til something actually goes wrong... then the aftercare is withdrawn and the seller blames the buyer.. never wanting to take any repsonsibility for ilness or problems if an animal becomes sick or dies...
There are also amazing breeders and sellers.. who are both highly experienced and very caring and would in a heartbeat WANT to know if there was an issue.. want to test their collection and do all they could to work with you in helping to solve any issue or problem if there was information with Post mortems or the likes... but theres are a few just not liek that...

I am aiming this at nooen personally ( id idnt feel i needed to state this but re-reading some comments in the htreads its obvious some people are taking things personally)

if anyone gets the hump at this type of post then its yourself you need to look at.. your own reactions to these posts and threads... NOT the person making them..

cages cant be rattled if theres no cage...


So heres the scenario.. and its one ive had a few people in the last 2 yrs tel me about with various reps and various sellers/ shops... u go back to a breeder or seller say an animal has died and u always always get this answer...

Well ALL mine are fine... 

What exactly does that prove... NOTHING

Which got me thinking.. IF they all SEEM fine.. ( and im not just talking about the crypto stuff) does that mean they ARE fine... 

Obviously not.. as reptile diseases can lay dormant with NO signs whatsoever.. and wil this become more common or less common in the next decade as the reptile trade seems to become more and more popular with programems such as cold blood etc?? who knows but it is something we should be considering when quarentining and buying in reps.. do we take enough care??or are we desperate for that new bloodlines wild caught royal morph that noone sever seen???



When i breed beardies next year if any person came back to say one had died id be testing and double testing everything i had to make double sure..

but so breeders usually do this.. ??? I wil let people make their own minds up about that one ...

ive lost count of the people on here saying I know why my snake died, I know why my lizard died it wasnt eating etc etc..

And u ask so why wasnt it eating???... and they dont know..

surely as with humans if someone stops eating... u test WHY...

.. if a person came back to me to let me know something had died that had come through my home and was sold by me.. id be asking them to perform a PM..

if the animal was sold or bred by me I would then want results and test my own collection.. irrespective if all my animals SEEMED well.. id stil test every last one... especially if i wanted to continue breeding with a clear conscience and confirmed proof one way or another that it had or hadnt been passed on by one of my animals..

this is both morally right with resepct to caring for your animals and fair on the buyer..

when people panic they cant afford to test 10, 100 1000 breeding animals in their collections they just dont..

how can a bigger breeder choose who to test.. and work out where and if somethings went wrong.. where it came from and how to halt or treat it..

keeping and breeding is a MASSIVE responsibility.. when it goes tits up we should be big enough to admit it and have the money to test and fix if its fixable.. if we dont then to me the answer is simple... stop doing it.. otherwise you are only contributing to the issues faced within the rep community right now regarding disease and infectious bacterias or parasites..

Much like adeno virus in beardies... whichis why i shall be testing before i breed either of mine.. that way i have done what i can..



but who can honestly say they breed within their means..

what I suggest by this is..

IF a new buyer buys ONE hatchling from a seller... and that new buyer only has ONE snake and the snake dies.. The PM confirms for example reptile crypto.. the buyer comes back to the seller and tells them...


can the seller genuinely and honestly deal with a crypto issue within their collection.. have all snakes/lizards tested... or stop breeding.. financially for a LOT of breeders that scenario is impossible hence the reason so much is swept prompty under the carpet..

Ive seen this happen ( not just with crypto) 4 or 5 times and each and every time the sller / breeder has not halted sales.. not checked their entire colletion and said simply..

well at the moment mine are fine..

ive also watched as that answer and lack of desire to do anything has caused two of those breeders to go under.. as they HAVE had an issue and they didnt check.. frankly it serves them right but it doesnt help the fact when something is OBVIOUSLY wrong their so calld mates rally round to protect them and hide the issues for them... thats even more pathetic

i would never breed outwith my financial ability to check every animal i had for any issue a buyer found with a hatchling of mine..

that way I keep both my animals safe and i play fairly and hoenstly with any buyers purchasing from me

breeding ethically is not just about husbandry, it is about honesty and the ability to know when to pull your horns in..when to reflect if an issue arises and when to admit you need to spend your ccash on looking within your own collection instead of ignoring information given to you and pretending it wil go away...


there are some beardie breeders admitted publically on the net they found adeno virus in their collection.. now i thnk thats honest and brave.. that way they can halt the additional and further spread from their own collection.. they have been bitched about left right and centre in the states... as that is where they are based

keeping schtum and laying low is weak... being honest even if it makes you VERY unpoular has at least strength of character


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

i bought two corn from a breeder on this forum. one died. i was offered 100% refund or a replacement right away. a pm showed a stomache deformity. the remaining one is growing strong and is well. just because everyone doesnt publish pm reports doesnt mean they are at it. although if pm reports are promised that should be upheld.


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

Yes because at this stage we do not know the source or type so as a pecaution I've written a few answers on not so p[eople panic but for a heads up on crypto.
p 


you say all this affecting reptiles however what about what others have said (different strains of it, this one inparticular not affecting reptiles)[/quote]


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## burrow (Nov 5, 2007)

Ahhhh crypto. I work in a crypto lab in yorkshire, i analyse water samples for it =)

The crypto oocysts are very hardy and water treatments don't always kill the majority of them (hence i'm employed to test the water and make sure most of it's gone). Now i'm not too sure about reptiles but i would just advise anyone in the contaminated area to boil the water before giving it to them, it's better to be safe than sorry, and to be honest it's only a small effort.

If anyone has any doubt then contact anglian water and they will be able to give you more information!


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

Kev132 said:


> 5,
> 
> its posted in everythread cause i think its important !!!!
> 
> ...


i've already answered that mate and was on ur side, but nevermind.. you like alot of people are reading the bits you want to.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

butterfly said:


> i bought two corn from a breeder on this forum. one died. i was offered 100% refund or a replacement right away. a pm showed a stomache deformity. the remaining one is growing strong and is well. just because everyone doesnt publish pm reports doesnt mean they are at it. although if pm reports are promised that should be upheld.


for whats it worth, i believe this was from me.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

just for piece of min, coz there seem to be a few here aimed at me.. if at all i have a problem, even a tiny one i will stop selling anything until whatever it was had been sorted..
someone said about selling then hiding, well personally i havent got a hope in hell of doing this, a lot of people on here know me and know where i live, i am a pretty easy person to track down. i wouldnt knowingly sell anything that was ill or even seemed ill..
i know i havent got any problems, but this is just to point out that fact and that if i did have i would be reasponsible enough to not add to it by selling..
anyone else want a pop, please go ahead as i know some of these comments are for me as i live in northampton.

and just for the record, all my snakes are eating well and ALL are putting weight on monthly as i now weigh at least once a month to monitor this.
The only regurges i have had in recent times have been from putting a snake on a too bigfood item too early.. that happens.. i have some snakes that wont eat a fluff for instance but a snake half he size that will.. they are all different.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

hi mo, i dont doubt what this is capable of, i was mearly saying not to panic and that it isnt the animal form.. so in other words it might have ben worse, thats the angle i was banging on at really. 
i know how serious it all could be, and lets hope it isnt.


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## PSGeckos (Jul 15, 2007)

sparkle said:


> it seens as though as i said this particular crypto isnt able to pass to reps... but i called two places a vet teaching school that specialises in reps and an aqua studies dept.. in stirling uni
> 
> As for breeders/ sellers and buyers in general... I only kept snakes for 2/3 years when i was younger... and i didnt know anyone else that had them so i never encountered the red tape and politics unitl the last 2 yrs when i started keeping again...
> 
> ...


 
BRAVO...BRAVO

Well said burd!! :2thumb: :notworthy:

Couldn't agree MORE, especially with the highlighted bit!
Hence why our collection is only very small, (15 adults) it would be absolutly irresponsible, like you said to have a collection of 100, 1000 + and not be able to have the financial means to ensure these animals, *ALL *the animals couldn't have access to vetinary care, that would nothing more than animal cruelty in my mind.

Disease and illness is indescriminate!


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## ant29nhampton (Jun 28, 2007)

just to let people no there are 2 reservoirs one is infected one isn't the one that is infected is pitford and nige and i both come under the other one which is sywell reservoir i have checked and made shore of this we are both boiling water for our selfs and our animals just for safety more than anything 
all our animals are feeding shedding and no regures so our animals are all OK 
i admit i was worried a few days back but not worried at all now 
the infected areas are listed in the link here Anglian Water Services - alerts

nige and i are in the lings area of Northampton which is not on the list


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> for whats it worth, i believe this was from me.


it was nigel. and can i say the female is the most beautiful candy cane i have ever seen. she really can be classed as a top class animal. its a shame i picked the wee one with a deformity. he was gorgeous too and it broke my heart to have to say bye to him. that was between you and me though, some folk have promised pm results on here and they have never materialised. results which were important to some people.
any more cc's for sale by the way????


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

hiya, no candys this year. i dont think i have any in my collection right now.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> hiya, no candys this year. i dont think i have any in my collection right now.


aw thats a shame. would have liked a male. keep me in mind please.


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