# frogsgalore.net



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Dont know if this kind of thing is accepted on this forum?
but I will like to say that I got some toads from frogsgalore last week.
All came perfectly packaged, lovelly healthy animals, and communications with frogsgalore were excellent at all times


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes Frogs Galore is great,I am so happy with my frogs,spent all night sat in the dark watching them:flrt::flrt::flrt:hubby not pleased :flrt::flrt:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

have to agree with you both, Richie is very helpful and all his stock seems to be good quality. I would recomend him to people with great confidence they will have a plesent, helpfull transaction.

Plus he has a great advert as his signature :whistling2:


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## danielle6761 (Aug 15, 2009)

HI Guy's I would also like to say how great frogsgalore and Richie are, I brought a red eye tree frog from Richie last week and the little fella turned up friday well packaged. He is so intresting, love watching him at night. I am just waiting now for Richie to get some Tiger legged tree frogs :flrt::notworthy::lol2::no1: Thanks Richie :notworthy:

Danielle
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons Wally and bindi
1.1.0 Crested Gecko's flash and baby G 
0.0.2 Chinese water dragons julio and milo
1.0.0 Royal Python harry 
0.0.1 corn snake cooper
0.0.2 americian tree frogs burt and ernie
1.0.0 red eye tree frog fando
1.0.0 chinchilla casper
3.0.0 cats JD, mia and suki
2.1.0 rabbits bob, marbles and stew
0.2.0 Guniea pigs bubble and squeak
1.0.0 patterdale terrier my baby Kai
0.0.1 Dwarf musk turtle Squirt
and fish to keep squirt company :2thumb:


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## shadowfrog (Nov 16, 2008)

Hello there, I'm considering buying a CFBN newt from there, but the postage price doesn't come up untill you've completed the order so I'm just wondering how much on an average it comes too? I know it's going to be different for everyone but I live in Birmingham. I just don't want to buy the newt for £5 and then the full cost is like £25.

Thanks.


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## danielle6761 (Aug 15, 2009)

I paid £9 for my frog :2thumb:


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## shortyshazz (Mar 21, 2009)

What is the web site im trying to find it and no luck :lol2:


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## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

Good site, bought a couple of Horned frogs from him the other week.

Excelent communication.


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## danielle6761 (Aug 15, 2009)

Flogsgalore.net - Home follow this and you should find it : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm getting my peacocks from here on wednesday.

£9 delivery!


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## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

ive seen his site, and adverts, if i were to buy some frogs for him, would he tell u what th date of delivary would be, as id need to take the day off work ect?


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## danielle6761 (Aug 15, 2009)

yes he would I asked for a friday delivery as that is my day off. Frog arrived on promised date :no1: with no problems :notworthy:


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

yes you can specify date,i did :2thumb::2thumb:


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

I havent bought from them personally but their prices are better than anywhere else i have been for the majority of their tree frogs


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## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

i only get weekends off? would happilly pay extra for saturday delivary if that was possible


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

darrensimps said:


> i only get weekends off? would happilly pay extra for saturday delivary if that was possible


I'd assume they use either TNT or they deliver in person, i know TNT has a saturday option as other places selling exotics have that choice.


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi all thanks for all your kind comments:2thumb:
we dont do a Saturday delivery anymore, ive had problems in the past with people not being in and the frogs stuck in a warehouse till Monday so decided not to do Saturday delivery sorry
[email protected]


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

what is the delivery method of the frogs?some good prices on the site


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

Good prices. I'm going to order an Asian painted bullfrog from there soon. 

Only negative is that you need cane toads in stock for me to order on there, Richie. :2thumb:


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

hi cranwelli 
no problem cane toad 6" £22 yours if you want him, :no1:


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

richie.b said:


> hi cranwelli
> no problem cane toad 6" £22 yours if you want him, :no1:


Check PMs.


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

Dan Bristow said:


> what is the delivery method of the frogs?some good prices on the site


anyone know?


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Dan Bristow said:


> what is the delivery method of the frogs?some good prices on the site





Dan Bristow said:


> anyone know?


Illegal methods, i.e Royal mail.


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> Illegal methods, i.e Royal mail.


 
i did wonder,thats why asked,as i think the site said 9 pound delivery which is far too cheap for tnt,which i think(i appologise if im wrong) is the only legal way to courier reps and amphibs,apart from rep taxi etc. 
i wonder if anyone who has purchased off frogs galore or frogs galore themselves can confirm the Royal Mail thing and if its legal or not??


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

royal mail will happily take fry, inverts or spawn, fact.

when it comes to live stock they generally do not take it however my purchase from frogsgalore cam boxed covered in stickers saying LIVESTOCK and living animal and these stickers were obviously seen at the postoffice and they accepted it.

I will personally contsct royal mail and see what they say on the matter.


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

ive just done some research and sending frogs etc by royal mail is ILLEGAL
From the RM website;
Prohibited goods; Living creatures-except certain insects,see restricted goods.

Restricted items; living creatures-Bees, Leeches, Pupae and Chrysalides, Caterpillars, Lugworms, Rag worms, Earthworms, Maggots, Silkworms, Fish fry and Fish eggs, Mealworms, Crickets, certain Parasites and destroyers of Noxious Pests, and some other insects sent between recognised institutions are allowed. You must use boxes that protect both the creatures and Royal Mail staff from harm. Use First Class as the minimum service and clearly label the package as *"URGENT - LIVING CREATURES"*. Mark the sender's name and address on the outer wrapping

That is why your box did say living creatures on it and was allowed,but only if contained the latter. As it didnt,it shouldnt be sent that way. I feel sorry for the poor animals being sent this way. 
Frogs galore-please dont take this as a personal attack on yourself,but if you are,as it seems,sending live amphibs by the postal system,then you need to stop as it is against the law and also will be regarded as cruelty to animals by the RSPCA and i no doubt believe liable to prosecution


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

knighty said:


> my purchase from frogsgalore cam boxed covered in stickers saying LIVESTOCK and living animal and these stickers were obviously seen at the postoffice and they accepted it.


Huh? thought you said on a previous thread that your were arranging your own courier to pick up your animals?


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA (Oct 31, 2008)

I would be happier to buy a captive bred frog and it delivered bynext day delivery than a wild caught one,my frogs were carefully packaged and labelled on the outside,they arrived at 8.15am and all were happy and alert when opening the boxes,next day delivery meant that they were not stuck in a sorting office somewhere and I was waiting for them to arrive with my set up ready.I am very happy and Ritchie takes good care of them and cares about where they are going :notworthy::notworthy::2thumb::2thumb:


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

that may be the case but it is still illegal and the parcels are not all passed around nicely just because they are labelled as live animals.its all done on conveyor belt systems etc so are chucked around etc. thats why it is ILLEGAL as how would you like to be put in a dark box and transported via conveyor belts,dropped etc. the post office is what it is-for letters,parcels etc,not for sending live animals. if you cared about your animals then you wouldnt think it was ok for them to be sent via the post office!!! you would use a licensed courier!!!!
i can easily pass this this info onto the rspca and see what they make of it as i guarentee they dont take this lightly as ive already had one person reported and they ceased trading because of this..but id rather not do this,just see the illegal practice stopped being used and a legal more humane one take its place so frogs galore can still continue to sell what seems like quality animals.
like ive said,im still not 100% sure royal mail is being used but from the comments im getting and frogs galore not telling me otherwise,im assuming it is the case


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

OHOH its all gone a bit Pete Tong!


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## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

Yeah, and i bet none of you drive your cars over 70mph which is illegal:whistling2:


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Dan Bristow said:


> that may be the case but it is still illegal and the parcels are not all passed around nicely just because they are labelled as live animals.its all done on conveyor belt systems etc so are chucked around etc. thats why it is ILLEGAL as how would you like to be put in a dark box and transported via conveyor belts,dropped etc. the post office is what it is-for letters,parcels etc,not for sending live animals.


Im totally with you Dan, ive raised these concerns before but they fell on deaf ears. Unfortunately there are many people on this forum who are more concerned with getting things on the cheap than the welfare of animals.

The downside is that people who are prepared to treat animals like this and send and receive animals in the post end up giving all Herp keepers a bad name.

What i cant understand is if Admin know people are operating illegally and i fail to see how they cant have noticed, its blatant enough, why they continue to let them advertise?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Dan Bristow said:


> ive just done some research and sending frogs etc by royal mail is ILLEGAL
> From the RM website;
> Prohibited goods; Living creatures-except certain insects,see restricted goods.
> 
> ...


I get crickets delivered by royal mail from livefoods.co.uk every couple of weeks, and they are listed as a restricted item. Livefoodsdirect.co.uk send theres in an outer cardboard box that has big round air holes in and you can clearly see the crickets inside! So i don't think it matters what that list says to be honest!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> Im totally you with you Dan, ive raised these concerns before but they fell on deaf ears. Unfortunately there are many people on this forum who are more concerned with getting things on the cheap than the welfare of animals.
> 
> The downside is that people who are prepared to treat animals like this and send and receive animals in the post end up giving all Herp keepers a bad name.
> 
> What i cant understand is if Admin know people are operating illegally and i fail to see how they cant have noticed, its blatant enough, why they continue to let them do advertise?


Everyone that has gotten frogs from him have had them arrive healthy and well. Including red eyed tree frogs which are the most easily stressed frogs in the world and they have all been fine and well! If they were dead on arrival or died shortly after then yeah I would complain but the fact that the frogs aren't stressed shows that its not as cruel as you think.


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

andaroo said:


> Everyone that has gotten frogs from him have had them arrive healthy and well. Including red eyed tree frogs which are the most easily stressed frogs in the world and they have all been fine and well! If they were dead on arrival or died shortly after then yeah I would complain but the fact that the frogs aren't stressed shows that its not as cruel as you think.


 
what happens when one arrives dead? you stop using this ILLEGAL method of transport......poor the frog who has to arrive dead before people realise this method of transport is ILLEGAL for a reason.

does noone have morals anymore.......its cheap so its ok....just like dvd pirating but this involves lives ffs living breathing creatures that feel pain.....oh and its ILLEGAL:whip:


we have transported many frogs and amphibs and know how stressful a road journey can be for all the creatures we carry, we check them regularly and the box that they are transported in never once gets thrown about, never once slips and slides along with other parcels all over the back of a van, never is left in a wharehouse, never travels on a conveyer belt and arrives at its destination, and i must say although we have never lost any animal in transit i always breathe a sigh of relief when we unpackage the animal and see the animal is safe and sound.


royal mail deliver letters parcels and packages NOT live animals.....why?..........cos its ILLEGAL


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

also dont no where you seen that insects cant be sent as its legal to send most inverts with royal mail just not frogs lizards snakes and the like there was some where else on here that did that and got closed down altho see there in trade again whats this world coming to next be dogs and cats with royal mail


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

andaroo said:


> I get crickets delivered by royal mail from livefoods.co.uk every couple of weeks, and they are listed as a restricted item. Livefoodsdirect.co.uk send theres in an outer cardboard box that has big round air holes in and you can clearly see the crickets inside! So i don't think it matters what that list says to be honest!


 
???youve quoted my paragraph without reading it.royal mail state crickets etc are allowed.read it again and it'll explain this:2thumb:


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

Ben W said:


> Yeah, and i bet none of you drive your cars over 70mph which is illegal:whistling2:


 
and what relavance has that?we have a choice to do this,were as the animals dont have a choice to be sent though the postal system


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

Dan Bristow said:


> ???youve quoted my paragraph without reading it.royal mail state crickets etc are allowed.read it again and it'll explain this:2thumb:


but you say there a restricked item and that you dont think it matters what the list says


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

adamntitch said:


> but you say there a restricked item and that you dont think it matters what the list says


think am reading it wrong lol sorry


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> think am reading it wrong lol sorry


:lol2:i was confused myself then!!ha!!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

oh yeah but still none have been dead on arrival that i know of. Like i said if it doesnt stress a red eye out when simply handling it too much can then i don't have a problem with it. proof is in the pudding.

How do u think they transport frogs from the rainforest they must go on airplanes and such


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

andaroo said:


> oh yeah but still none have been dead on arrival that i know of. Like i said if it doesnt stress a red eye out when simply handling it too much can then i don't have a problem with it. proof is in the pudding.
> 
> How do u think they transport frogs from the rainforest they must go on airplanes and such


if you think that putting a frog in a tub,then into a box of some description,then sending it through a postal system on conveyor belts etc which'll gets tossed about and will stress the frog(how could it not??), is ok,then thats fine,thats your opinion,but thats not the opinion of the carrier i.e royal mail or the law/RSPCA


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Dan Bristow said:


> if you think that putting a frog in a tub,then into a box of some description,then sending it through a postal system on conveyor belts etc which'll gets tossed about and will stress the frog(how could it not??), is ok,then thats fine,thats your opinion,but thats not the opinion of the carrier i.e royal mail or the law/RSPCA


if it stressed the frog out it would be dead on arrival or die of stress later on...


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

andaroo said:


> if it stressed the frog out it would be dead on arrival or die of stress later on...


like i say,if you think that its ok to this then thats your choice,but again,like i said,thats not the view of RM or the law.
there is a simple solution to this-stop using an illegal carrier and use a legal one. I had a royal python sent to me once via RM. i went straight to the RSPCA who took the box,email and forum thread as evidence.next thing i knew,said online shop disapeared. i can happily forward this link to them and let them investigate but would rather the latter happen so frogs galore can continue to supply quality animals...


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Dan Bristow said:


> like i say,if you think that its ok to this then thats your choice,but again,like i said,thats not the view of RM or the law.
> there is a simple solution to this-stop using an illegal carrier and use a legal one. I had a royal python sent to me once via RM. i went straight to the RSPCA who took the box,email and forum thread as evidence.next thing i knew,said online shop disapeared. i can happily forward this link to them and let them investigate but would rather the latter happen so frogs galore can continue to supply quality animals...


just leave it be dont be a party pooper and piss on his parade.


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

andaroo said:


> just leave it be dont be a party pooper and piss on his parade.


i'll leave it be when a proper courier is used...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

andaroo said:


> if it stressed the frog out it would be dead on arrival or die of stress later on...


just cos a frog gets stressed it doesnt mean it will automatically die, but stress is stress regardless of the results, an animal can still suffer stress and have ill effects temporarily even if it doesnt die and if you would potentially put animals at risk like that then you shouldnt keep them. So until one of yours arrives dead its ok? thats a load of crap, and its a time bomb waitin to happen. Even TNT arent the best couriers of animals as they treat even animals as a parcel, but royal mail are even worse. i dont believe dan is pissin on anyones parade, he just wants someone to operate legally. If we didnt have a DEFRA license etc people wouldnt use us, so why the hell should anyone else use an ILLEGAL mode of delivery for their frogs.


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

ftao reptile taxi can u provide me with some idea of your prices according to distance for say a couple of frogs???????


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> ftao reptile taxi can u provide me with some idea of your prices according to distance for say a couple of frogs???????


 
if you pm me with an idea of where these couple of frogs could be going from and coming to and i could give you an example quote. Our price is based on miles covered, to and from base included


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

Richards a great bloke! Although I haven't bought from him yet. He's given me plenty of advice and everything I need to know.

Kudos to a great guy and business.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Josh-sama said:


> Richards a great bloke! Although I haven't bought from him yet. He's given me plenty of advice and everything I need to know.
> 
> Kudos to a great guy and business.


the point being he would be an even better guy if he sent his frogs out in a LEGAL way


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> Huh? thought you said on a previous thread that your were arranging your own courier to pick up your animals?


yes i did but after a telephone conversation with richard and speaking to people that have previously ordered i decided that the law was the only problem. the packages at royal mail marked with the living creatures stamp are handled no differently than the same package sent via tnt. 

the stress on the animal is no greater than being taken from breeder to shop, or the rainforest to the wholesaler. royal mails main reason for avoiding this is purley down to there insurance and the decision they do not wish to get involved with the animal shipping trade.

I have recieved both through royal mail and tnt and other than the legal status of the order there has been no difference in the packaging or the handling of the animal.

There may be a good case for richard to change his shipping methods as im sure he or frogsgalore do not want a legal case against them, but in the mean time i suggest the people that have a problem with breaking the law stay away.


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> if you pm me with an idea of where these couple of frogs could be going from and coming to and i could give you an example quote. Our price is based on miles covered, to and from base included


surely u would hope for more than 1 delivery going in the same direction this then subsequently would split the travel costs then for every other item the travel cost would be split again but im guessing u price it full cost as if only 1 item goin that direction to each customer. im not pming u say it was a 50(total) mile journey then 100(total) mile journey then 150(total) mile journey etc to ur farthest delivery point what would the cost be approx, surely u can share this info on a forum espicaily a thread u are arguing on quote ur prices u will soon find out if buisnesses see it as feasable and if the customer would be willing to pay.....advertise urselves with some figures that u believe are acceptable instead of coming on and slating people for tryin to make a living, sure if there animals started arriving dead or unwell they would reconsider if u dont want them to wait that long then give them reason to use a reptile taxi. gimme an idea of your prices please.

tell where the most stress is caused its after the animal has got to its new home the majority of them arent lucky enough to find homes with the same sort of peole who use this and other forums most shops dont ask any questions about how the animal is goin to be looked after, it should be made ilegal for suppliers not to do followup checks on the animals they sell or even to ask the new owner for regular updates via email and photograph and it should be the owners responsibility to keep up with these updates or the supplier should be able to report them...sorry for the rant a bit off subject but just my opinion.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

AndyJY said:


> im not pming u say it was a 50(total) mile journey then 100(total) mile journey then 150(total) mile journey etc to ur farthest delivery point what would the cost be approx, surely u can share this info on a forum espicaily a thread u are arguing on quote ur prices u will soon find out if buisnesses see it as feasable and if the customer would be willing to pay.....advertise urselves with some figures that u believe are acceptable instead of coming on and slating people for tryin to make a living, sure if there animals started arriving dead or unwell they would reconsider if u dont want them to wait that long then give them reason to use a reptile taxi. gimme an idea of your prices please.


totally agree mate.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> surely u would hope for more than 1 delivery going in the same direction this then subsequently would split the travel costs then for every other item the travel cost would be split again but im guessing u price it full cost as if only 1 item goin that direction to each customer. im not pming u say it was a 50(total) mile journey then 100(total) mile journey then 150(total) mile journey etc to ur farthest delivery point what would the cost be approx, surely u can share this info on a forum espicaily a thread u are arguing on quote ur prices u will soon find out if buisnesses see it as feasable and if the customer would be willing to pay.....advertise urselves with some figures that u believe are acceptable instead of coming on and slating people for tryin to make a living, sure if there animals started arriving dead or unwell they would reconsider if u dont want them to wait that long then give them reason to use a reptile taxi. gimme an idea of your prices please.
> 
> 
> tell where the most stress is caused its after the animal has got to its new home the majority of them arent lucky enough to find homes with the same sort of peole who use this and other forums most shops dont ask any questions about how the animal is goin to be looked after, it should be made ilegal for suppliers not to do followup checks on the animals they sell or even to ask the new owner for regular updates via email and photograph and it should be the owners responsibility to keep up with these updates or the supplier should be able to report them...sorry for the rant a bit off subject but just my opinion.


first of all, i am not slatin anyone for makin a livin, i am commenting on something that is being done ILLEGALLY....... or have you failed to see that point?!?!?! From the point of view of gettin a frog our service probably isnt feesable as the delivery would probably outweigh the price of the frog but that doesnt mean its ok to then go using ILLEGAL means to transport a LIVIN BREATHING FEELING animal from a to b!!!!

secondly, ill try to answer you the best i can seen as i cant quite understand your use of english......a job is quoted on an individual job basis, as if we dont have something booked that way then we cannot offer discounts. if 2 people wanted to join up on a run then we would plit the cost, as we would between 3 and so on, we wouldnt charge each person full charge if they were on a multi run. But if we couldnt combine runs then we would have to quote for an individual job. The price of the animal in transit doesnt matter to the price of delivery, its all down to miles, so if a £10 frog or a £5000 snake was going to the same place the charge would be the same. if you are not willin to pm to discuss then thats fine, but im not willing to publish prices either for obvious reasons, thats my porogative/

surely if the animal turns up dead then they would reconsider?? so you are sayin that an animal has to lose its life before you will find it unacceptable to use an ILLEGAL method of delivering?

so you think it should be illegal for suppliers not to do follow ups but yet sending a living creature in package overnight or even longer getting tossed about in warehouses n on conveyor belts is perfectly acceptable?

and just incase you didnt get the point, sending frogs through royal mail is....yes you guessed it.......
*ILLEGAL!!!!* just cos they arrive alive doesnt make it right


ps, why have you taken that last bit off your post?


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

why wont u say prices i dont understand why it needs be a secret.

right only other solution would be if at least 1 petshop in every town stocked a number of fogs this is not the case at the moment ive travelled about 100 miles to 3 shops just to look at frogs, i drive not every1 does, so its more shops supplying them which then 1. more usuitable new owners would purchase them 2. more would be transported from countries much farther a distance to supply all the new petshops stocking them. 3. a surpluss of frogs would begin to build up in the shops that couldnt shift them which would mean being overcrowded and stuck in smaller areas for a longer time( u only need go into a petshop and see the increase in beardies and tortoises over the years to see this it is a shame much worse than a 24 hour delivery imo). or it stays the way it is with them being more rare generaly petshops that have an interest in their care looking after them until sale and also specialist breeders(which offer top mark advise) who have to put bread on the table selling a pretty cheap asset if they go out of buisness the frogs would be sold as said in a pet shop in every town not good news for the frog.

sometimes u need turn a blind eye to some laws they just aint justified. : victory:

it was a rant i was gettin somethin off my chest it didnt need to stay but ive put it back up.

why so secretive about prices though its not like a customer wont ask. sounds daft to me but you offer no reeason other than its ur porogitive

as u say for frogs ur buisness wouldnt be very feasable offer another solution


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> why wont u say prices i dont understand why it needs be a secret.
> 
> right only other solution would be if at least 1 petshop in every town stocked a number of fogs this is not the case at the moment ive travelled about 100 miles to 3 shops just to look at frogs, i drive not every1 does, so its more shops supplying them which then 1. more usuitable new owners would purchase them 2. more would be transported from countries much farther a distance to supply all the new petshops stocking them. 3. a surpluss of frogs would begin to build up in the shops that couldnt shift them which would mean being overcrowded and stuck in smaller areas for a longer time( u only need go into a petshop and see the increase in beardies and tortoises over the years to see this it is a shame much worse than a 24 hour delivery imo). or it stays the way it is with them being more rare generaly petshops that have an interest in their care looking after them until sale and also specialist breeders(which offer top mark advise) who have to put bread on the table selling a pretty cheap asset if they go out of buisness the frogs would be sold as said in a pet shop in every town not good news for the frog.
> 
> sometimes u need turn a blind eye to some laws they just aint justified. : victory:


why the secret? do you think it makes good business sense to broadcast your prices so the competition can see them? :lol2:

i appreciate that some things shouldnt be the law but when it involves an animals life i think its pretty justified. Or are some losses acceptable in your eyes?

offer another solution? 
1. buy frogs closer to where you live
2. travel yourself to collect the frogs you want
3. get enough people on a run for a courier to be able to do it at a feesable price

enough solutions for you to avoid having something sent *ILLEGALLY?*
i find it really hard to believe frog lovers are happy to support sending frogs through the post...... ive got someone who wants some of my rabbits in scotland..... if i box them up well enough, stick a sticker on them and send them to the post office that would be acceptable?? why not, if you can do it with frogs, why not with rabbits? or lizards? or dogs?!?!?! until one arrives dead, whats the problem??


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

u barely answered anything there, ur paranoid eh competitors :lol2:

as i said to change things would cause more animal lifes than the none that have been reported by customers so far.

better leave that on eh soz i never read to the end

ur answers 1. see above the consequenses of stocking more shops and they just off the top of my head im sure there would be more.

2. as mentioned not every1 drives (or has access to long distance transport)

3. that would be ur job being the courier even if it meant delaying deliveries til new customers in the same area contacted u. (that should sound good to u be able to compete wi yer rivals lol )


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> u barely answered anything there, ur paranoid eh competitors :lol2:
> 
> as i said to change things would cause more animal lifes than the none that have been reported by customers so far.
> 
> ...


1. so how about save the lives of all of them n just not have them in the pet trade? im not nieve, i know there are losses due to us wanting to keep new animals from all over the world but i dont understand how its acceptable to sacrifice some lives when it could be avoided totally by transporting LEGALLY??. if a supplier cant provide a legal way of transporting an animal then they shouldnt be selling them or offering delivery on them

2. how have people not got access to long distance transport??? if you want something so much you will travel for it, if you cant and want it so badly you would be willing to pay to get it

3. it isnt my job. i quote people, if they want to try n get the price down by gettin their friends involved in the trip then thats up to them, we have bulk runs every so often but mainly we do individual jobs cos we are more of a personal service and dont like having a lot of animals on board at one time as i think it devides our attention too much. Some deliveries could be delayed that long just waitin for other interest in that area that the potential animals could be sold. 

anyway, this thread isnt about couriering and offering alternatives to ILLIGAL services..... even if there arent other solutions (even though there are, you have just dismissed them), it doesnt mean that an ILLAGAL way is then acceptable to use. if you cant get for it yourself or wont pay for a LEGAL way to get it then dont get it, simple, though if you have no morals or resect for life and animals that have no choice on the way they are delivered then i can totally see why you are in support of it!!!!

andy, would it be acceptable for me to send a rabbit via royal mail if i packaged it appropriately?


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

is there not somethin ilegal about not sharing prices i do no it is illegal to pursue to be the sole company of anything within 1 area.

some people unfortunately are housebound (frog an ideal pet)

as u say there isnt any other solutions (that wouldnt cause far greater consequence for human and animal alike )and im sure police time, court time and public expense should be used dealing with more serious issues.: victory:

"so how about save the lives of all of them n just not have them in the pet trade? im not nieve, i know there are losses due to us wanting to keep new animals from all over the world but i dont understand how its acceptable to sacrifice some lives when it could be avoided totally by transporting LEGALLY??. if a supplier cant provide a legal way of transporting an animal then they shouldnt be selling them or offering delivery on them" 
never goin to happen and would cause it to go even more ilegal 
"if you want something so much you will travel for it, if you cant and want it so badly you would be willing to pay to get it" open the dors to black market frog tradin if as u first said ban it all together (consequenses) 


ok 2 frogs picked up in dumfries and to be dropped off in wishaw gimme a price.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> is there not somethin ilegal about not sharing prices i do no it is illegal to pursue to be the sole company of anything within 1 area.
> 
> some people unfortunately are housebound (frog an ideal pet)
> 
> ...


i think youll find i didnt say there werent any other solutions, its just people arent willing to pay out for the donkey work to be done or do the donkey work themseves, most people want something for nothing these days
did i say there was something illegal about sharing prices? no, i just choose not to, as a) its not in good business to broadcast your prices and b) im not wasting my time calculating a quote on someone who isnt even remotely interested in using our services. i dont get paid for makin quotes up for a laugh you know. i think you seem to have totally lost the point in this thread. And it isnt to do with my prices or any other courier prices, its to do with frogsgalore, which has evidently highlighted the fact that an ILLEGAL method of delivery is being used....... im assuming youre not that stupid that youve missed that point and just decided to launch an attack on me

and as for people being housebound, im pretty sure most have friends or family that could assist. there are ways and means


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

FFLF "just because there arent other solutions" read what u write :lol2:
ok if ye want iwll do the donkey work what does it involve give me yer postcode i will go on google maps ur postcode direction from postcode dumfries directions from postcode wishaw directions from postcode ur base add them together there u go u have the miles u say u work on a milage so whatever u are per mile multiplied by total milage.....yer right a donkey could do it.

if yer competitors realy wanted ur prices they would phone with an order it aint rocket science...paraparapara stick stuck somehwere it shouldnae be and bet yer competitors sit back enjoy there earnins n laugh at ur milage gps goin doolaly bet yeve got yer vans runnin like we blue arsed flies lol

MODS sorry for language remove if u want it is midnight at moment n this person is nothin but a timewaster better mine than anyone elses though i have plenty :lol2:

: victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> FFLF "just because there arent other solutions" read what u write :lol2:
> ok if ye want iwll do the donkey work what does it involve give me yer postcode i will go on google maps ur postcode direction from postcode dumfries directions from postcode wishaw directions from postcode ur base add them together there u go u have the miles u say u work on a milage so whatever u are per mile multiplied by total milage.....yer right a donkey could do it.
> 
> if yer competitors realy wanted ur prices they would phone with an order it aint rocket science...paraparapara stick stuck somehwere it shouldnae be and bet yer competitors sit back enjoy there earnins n laugh at ur milage gps goin doolaly bet yeve got yer vans runnin like we blue arsed flies lol
> ...


 
i dont think the mods will mind what has been written in your post as they will probably have just as much trouble readin it as everyone else.....

i think you will find i offered solutions and you dismissed them, so i then said even if there are no other solutions (which there are you just dismissed them) it doesnt mean an ILLEGAL alternative should be used

from what i can gather though you are callin me a time waster.... dunno how you have come to that conclusion? as i am commenting on something to do with the original subject, i think you will find its you that has gone off on a stupid tangent and taken this thread off topic.


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

u offered no solution that wouldnt cause greater consequence for animal and human alike.

shit happens and if anyone is taken to court for using royal mail then it would be a great waste of time and money.

go think about how you could make your prices better (maybe expand to other areas then there would be less milage)do something useful.

just leave this alone until u have firm evidence that animals are suffering long term damage or death.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> u offered no solution that wouldnt cause greater consequence for animal and human alike.
> 
> shit happens and if anyone is taken to court for using royal mail then it would be a great waste of time and money.
> 
> ...


 
how would someone going themelves or buying from closer to home cause greater consequence?!?! are you seriously on this planet?!?! 

so lets say you got burgled, or attacked in the street, would that be ok? would you just shrug it off n say " well shit happens"? no! so why is one form of illegal activity more acceptable than another? 

as for the prices, i will do as i see fit with my prices, seen as you arent usin our services it is non of your concern.

i think the fact that sending animals through royal mail is ILLEGAL
is evidence enough. 

and you say i avoid questions.... you still never answered whether it would be acceptable for me to send a rabbit via royal mail.....cos lets face it, if its acceptable for a frog, why not a rabbit eh!!


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

FFLF "why is one form of illegal activity more acceptable than another?"
FFLF "i appreciate that some things shouldnt be the law"........:S.

as i said i traveled over 100 miles and only seen 3 species of frog so should someone have to travel a 500 mile round trip for example to get the frog of their choice or knowledge...what if they wer under 16 how does the law count on this it is hard enough for some kids to talk them into allowing them an animal never mind traveling they kind of distances to get 1. and some adults just simply might not be able to afford it but may be able to afford adequate housing for the animal within their budget. oh aye and some folk are housebound and as i said for these people a frog would be a great pet.

as for comparing rabbits with frogs well ye cant frogs are cold blooded rabbits arent.(i never read the question before)

and yes if i was burgled or attacked in the street i prob would just say shit happens : victory: time flies shit happens thats life enjoy it best ye can :whistling2:

finaly you may put down the way i write doesnt mean i am stupid just means ur not intelegent enuff to make sense of it:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> FFLF "why is one form of illegal activity more acceptable than another?"
> FFLF "i appreciate that some things shouldnt be the law"........:S.
> 
> as i said i traveled over 100 miles and only seen 3 species of frog so should someone have to travel a 500 mile round trip for example to get the frog of their choice or knowledge...what if they wer under 16 how does the law count on this it is hard enough for some kids to talk them into allowing them an animal never mind traveling they kind of distances to get 1. and some adults just simply might not be able to afford it but may be able to afford adequate housing for the animal within their budget. oh aye and some folk are housebound and as i said for these people a frog would be a great pet.
> ...


 
so the temperature of somethings blood decides whether its acceptable to post via royal mail ILLEGALLY? how does that figure? cold blooded or warm blooded its still alive. you say i need to find evidence but your arguement is weak. Keep quoting parts of what ive said previously isnt going to make your weak arguement any stronger. I dont agree with every law that is in force nowadays, but it doesnt mean it should be broken just because i dont agree with it. 

as for my intelligence, just b coz i stugl 2 undastand sum1 who writes lyk they r illiterate duznt meen im not intelligent. peoples accents are their accents, and shouldnt be reflected what so ever in the way they type. some simple grammer wouldnt go a miss. Even i drop the odd letter but theres only so many you can drop before you become hard to understand


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

i for one would not like any animals to come delivered from royal mail mean i had hermit crabs delivered this morning and the driver carried the box under his arm they where all over the place when i opened the box.
compared to even tnt when i have deliverys from them they are always careful and hold the box the right way up i have had reptiles delivered from royal mail as i said earlyer but i never new they where being sent in that way and that place got closed altho are now trading again (pm for name of place) and animals arrived cold and stressed delivery from the likes of reptile taxi and others is the best way altho dearer but even tnt is better than royal mail and is also legal av a feeling you as well as the sender could be charged as it is illegal to send frogs and the like in this way there are plenty places that tnt frogs and stuff so search about and dont encourge illegal and money making gits and companys


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

It is not a weak argument I have put forward. Everything I have written is justified. The only real strong argument you have for your cause is that it is ilegal which you like to put across so boldly. 

If it was to go to the police then a trial it would be a waste of time in my opinion. 

I hope you can now undertand this better literature which in my opinion is no more understandable than what I have writ before just wasted some of my time having to slow down typing it.

Believe me when i tell you I probably have better interests for both humans and nature at heart than yourself. You have a bee in your bonnet as I have said previously the consequenses of the crime not being commited would be far greater than if it was stopped for which I have forwarded not only strong but reasonable thoeries.

Go find yer common sense i think its lost somewhere.

: victory:

I'm sure if you ask at the post office they will transfer your packages to TNT they do this with large parcels .


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> It is not a weak argument I have put forward. Everything I have written is justified. The only real strong argument you have for your cause is that it is ilegal which you like to put across so boldly.
> 
> If it was to go to the police then a trial it would be a waste of time in my opinion.
> 
> ...


they way your going on i dont think you care about your animals and are more worryed about saving pennys getting them sent cheaply

also it would probs not go to trial they would just lose there licence like the other place did due to breaking laws


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> It is not a weak argument I have put forward. Everything I have written is justified. The only real strong argument you have for your cause is that it is ilegal which you like to put across so boldly.
> 
> If it was to go to the police then a trial it would be a waste of time in my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
i think you need to stick your head in a pan n boil it personally.

the only real strong arguement i have is that its illegal?? thats the whole point isnt it?? sheesh! for someone who claims to be so intelligent you aint half thick!! whether you agree with it or not, sending live animals through royal mail is illegal, end of! whether it be a frog, a rabbit, a dog or a horse! its still ILLEGAL!!! i dont have a bee in my bonnet at all and i would ask you not to question my best interests, as an animal lover i know exactly where my best interests are placed thankyou very much!! where is your strong founded evidence that amphibians would suffer more if people didnt use illegal methods to send frogs? refering back to an old post you put if frogs arent sellin in petshops then the shops would stock accordingly! they wouldnt keep gettin them until they had so many they couldnt cope!! only someone with no business sense would carry on gettin frogs into their shops until they couldnt cope and were gettin over crowded!


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## Darbz (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh look, bunting!


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

Darbz said:


> Oh look, bunting!


eh :S.

more shops supplying frogs in unsuitable enclosures, open to a wider variety of unsuitable owners, a surpluss of frogs in unsuitable enclosures, more frogs being transported in from other countries to supply the new suppliers.....all this means more stress more deaths

as for me trying to save money i have traveled over 100 miles to buy 2 frogs i will travel to buy another 3 or 4 will be less miles as i now know where i am goin i have no intention of buying animals online so you's are wrong 

: victory:


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> eh :S.
> 
> more shops supplying frogs in unsuitable enclosures, open to a wider variety of unsuitable owners, a surpluss of frogs in unsuitable enclosures, more frogs being transported in from other countries to supply the new suppliers.....all this means more stress more deaths
> 
> ...


if you have no intention of buying frogs or animals online why you sticking up for the way frogs galore send there animals so much also most of the reasons you give at the start happen anyway with places like frogs galore with somewhere that seams a large sellers place do you think all the frogs and animals are kept in brill conditions


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> eh :S.
> 
> more shops supplying frogs in unsuitable enclosures, open to a wider variety of unsuitable owners, a surpluss of frogs in unsuitable enclosures, more frogs being transported in from other countries to supply the new suppliers.....all this means more stress more deaths
> 
> ...


 
100 miles is like nippin out to the shop for us, its no distance at all.

the fact of the matter is and always will be is that its illegal. we're goin round in circles now. i dont believe what you said above would happen just as a result of people stopping posting frogs ILLEGALLY


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

because all there customers are truly satisfied an argument has been made where there was no problem, problem waiting to happen who knows i only wanted to know their alternatives this meant asking for a price but reptile taxi got all paranoid about sharing prices unjustly i might add i think ur worrying to much as i said a rival would just need place a legit order if they realy wanted ur prices. also showing ur prices may just get u a few more customers sure some people would be willing to pay, frogs galore could offer ur contact details if they had an idea of price then it could be the customers decision. i dont even know if frogsgalore definetely use royal mail just know their current customers are satisfied with deliveries. : victory:


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

100 miles is nothing i know but but not to others i was travelin 53000 miles per year just to get to my place of work and worked an average 80 hours per week. whereas i know people who a 15 mile journey would be a long trip. different situations create different realities for different people. u need think of individual circumstances and not just ur own.

: victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> because all there customers are truly satisfied an argument has been made where there was no problem, problem waiting to happen who knows i only wanted to know their alternatives this meant asking for a price but reptile taxi got all paranoid about sharing prices unjustly i might add i think ur worrying to much as i said a rival would just need place a legit order if they realy wanted ur prices. also showing ur prices may just get u a few more customers sure some people would be willing to pay, frogs galore could offer ur contact details if they had an idea of price then it could be the customers decision. i dont even know if frogsgalore definetely use royal mail just know their current customers are satisfied with deliveries. : victory:


its up to me whether i want to share my prices or not on a forum. at the moment we dont actually need any more customers, if and when we do, i am sure i can come up with something to find them!! you didnt just want to know the alternative, you have responded in an antagonisin way all the way through this thread so you got a response back. Im sure frogs galore isnt stupid, theyre fully aware of the couriers available as they are all advertised in many places, so if they wish to make contacts with any couriers they have plenty of means to do so. 

and even if frogs galore dont send their frogs out by royal mail, (though by the sounds of their delivery prices theydo) it seems you are a supporter of this illegal wasy of doing things which means you are quite happy for people to jeopardise the health of any amphibians just to save a bit of cash


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

at the moment u can go in almost any pet shop and u are face with small tanks stuffed full of beardies and tortoises now im sure at one point they would have been more commonly only available via courier and speecialised dealers now they are widespread it is horrible seeing them in these conditions and as the shops hold a surpluss they will sell to anyone with cash, take beardies people go in a shop see 20 in a tank together n go home thinking they are sociable animals this could happen with frogs
everyone i have shown piccies of my frogs has said awww their so cute i could get some they havent seen them before imagine everyone who walked into any petshop had access.......think about it.

: victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> 100 miles is nothing i know but but not to others i was travelin 53000 miles per year just to get to my place of work and worked an average 80 hours per week. whereas i know people who a 15 mile journey would be a long trip. different situations create different realities for different people. u need think of individual circumstances and not just ur own.
> 
> : victory:


53000 a year? we did more than that in 6 months! :lol2:
peoples circumstance doesnt make a difference to something that is illegal, if you dont drive it doesnt mean sendin animals through royal mail is acceptable and legal for them!!


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> at the moment u can go in almost any pet shop and u are face with small tanks stuffed full of beardies and tortoises now im sure at one point they would have been more commonly only available via courier and speecialised dealers now they are widespread it is horrible seeing them in these conditions and as the shops hold a surpluss they will sell to anyone with cash, take beardies people go in a shop see 20 in a tank together n go home thinking they are sociable animals this could happen with frogs
> everyone i have shown piccies of my frogs has said awww their so cute i could get some they havent seen them before imagine everyone who walked into any petshop had access.......think about it.
> 
> : victory:


 
hold on a minute, you go on about people who arent suitable gettin hold of frogs, doesnt sendin them via royal mail also allow unsuitable people to get their hands on them?? making them cheaper to obtain means that more people will be buyin them where as allow them only to be sent via legal means, means that only serious interested keepers would consider spending the money on them


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

"53000 a year? we did more than that in 6 months" you say we i take it u werent driving all these urself alone and im sure it was part of ur work and not to commute to ur place of work :lol2:

heres another thing seen as u are so strong about legalities

in scotland until recently(or it may still be) it was ilegal to not allow anyone access to your loo......so if someone chaps my door and asks for the toilet i need to let them in because it would be ILEGAL not to yet by letting them in I may very well be endangering mysel......now we wouldnt know the outcome maybe he would wnat to rob kill me or maybe he would simply need the toilet.....im sure i would refuse entry threw common sense yet this would be an ILEGAL move on my part for which i could be punished so i MUST be wrong eh.:bash:


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

far less people use the internet and if they have they have prob found the supplier after researchin thir desired frog......how many kids go into a petshop how many kids say i want and the parents allow frogs arent hamsters or gerbils they need much more control of their climate.

24 hours disruptance is far less worrying than a life of certain early death.

: victory:


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## Dan Bristow (Jan 12, 2008)

my my havent we all been busy. i find it quite worrying that people think that posting out animals is ok,very worrying. the only reason i can see for this is because people think its cheap and 'none of them have died and are packaged well'-what does that mean? nothing. it is an illegal practice for a reason-its not a suitable means for transporting animals. 
Like i have said before,if any of this is wrong,please frogs galore,come and reply to this, but as after 9 pages there is no word from him im assuming everything said so far is the truth???
I think the best bet is to forward his details and the link to this thread to the appropriate people and let them decide...saves us all the arguing now doesnt it people. i have already said i dont want to do this but as frogs galore havent come on here,saying they are stopping this illegal shipping method and using a legal one,i have no other option.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> "53000 a year? we did more than that in 6 months" you say we i take it u werent driving all these urself alone and im sure it was part of ur work and not to commute to ur place of work :lol2:
> 
> heres another thing seen as u are so strong about legalities
> 
> in scotland until recently(or it may still be) it was ilegal to not allow anyone access to your loo......so if someone chaps my door and asks for the toilet i need to let them in because it would be ILEGAL not to yet by letting them in I may very well be endangering mysel......now we wouldnt know the outcome maybe he would wnat to rob kill me or maybe he would simply need the toilet.....im sure i would refuse entry threw common sense yet this would be an ILEGAL move on my part for which i could be punished so i MUST be wrong eh.:bash:


On iPod touch so please forgive the few spelling mistakes, it won't let mesceoll down far enough to change them but I'm sure you get what I mean
I did know that actually, believe it or not my whole family are from scotland. But if you let someone in and they attacked you what does it matter cos shot happens right??? 

As for the qoute below, less people use the Internet are you mad? Just type in frogs for sale In google andeverythin is at your fingertips! It's a he'll of a lot simpler than going to the shop, why do you think people do most of their shoppin online now? Cos of ease. So if anythin this makes it a he'll of a lot easier for unsuitable peole to spend a small amount of money on gettin. A frog, cos let's face it a cheap frog with delivery via royal mail is what, £20? What's that if it dies eh, nothin. Where as take this cheap ILLIGAL service away and people buyin frogs on a whim might think twice 


AndyJY said:


> far less people use the internet and if they have they have prob found the supplier after researchin thir desired frog......how many kids go into a petshop how many kids say i want and the parents allow frogs arent hamsters or gerbils they need much more control of their climate.
> 
> 24 hours disruptance is far less worrying than a life of certain early death.
> 
> : victory:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

If people are looking to buy a frog i honestly do not believ that the price will will put them off. As for unsutable people aquiring specemins i think that that will happen no more on frogs galore than it will anywere else including shops and other online sites.

Yes shipping frogs via royal mail is illegal but that is purley because of royal mail pollicys. I think that the RSPCA would frown upon this purley because of handling legislations because lets face it frogsgalores stock is packed just as good as anyone elses.


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

knighty said:


> If people are looking to buy a frog i honestly do not believ that the price will will put them off. .


Absolute crap.



knighty said:


> Yes shipping frogs via royal mail is illegal but that is purley because of royal mail pollicys.


Its nothing to do with Royal mail's policies, its cruelty to animals, sending an animals through a system that is designed for inanimate objects is clearly cruel, anyone with half a brain cell can figure that out. 

How about this for an idea? how about you get off your fat arse and go and collect your animals, or if that is too much trouble for you, open your coffin of a wallet, clear away the cob webs and pay someone to properly transport the animals to you!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> Absolute crap.


IMO its not unless your a tight C**T. if people have really got there mind set on something they will pay the price FACT





ghastly152 said:


> Its nothing to do with Royal mail's policies, its cruelty to animals, sending an animals through a system that is designed for inanimate objects is clearly cruel, anyone with half a brain cell can figure that out.
> 
> How about this for an idea? how about you get off your fat arse and go and collect your animals, or if that is too much trouble for you, open your coffin of a wallet, clear away the cob webs and pay someone to properly transport the animals to you!


If the animals were being mistreated then it would be cruel but they are being sufficiantly packed and arrive in great health. You comment like you know everyones circumstances when you dont. I have always collected my animals from stores or breeders apart from on 2 occasions and considering the ammount i have kept thats pretty good. My wallet is far from a coffin so worrying about money is no issue for me im affraid. 

Have you even done any research into this or are you just living of other peoples evidence. I rememer rich telling me you have a personal problem with him so i think you need to be clear on weather this is a personal vendeta or you do actually give a shit.

You joining this forum was a ghastly mistake, you never give advice you just bitch and moan. Do you even have any constructive knowledge to give people or are you just a compleet twat?


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

I have no issue with Richie apart from his delivery methods and that is the only thing ive ever pulled him up on, if he or you can produce evidence to say otherwise please feel free to do so!

You can call me names all you like, i dont know if you have some kind of learning difficulties? but i will not bring myself down to your pathetic level.

You say that money isnt a problem but if that was the truth i cant see why you been trying to save yourself a few quid and putting an animals health and life in danger by having in delivered through the postal system. 

Youve really let yourself down, as have any other keepers who have knowingly received animals in the post.

P.s ive helped many people out with advice, but you dont need any because you know it all.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> I have no issue with Richie apart from his delivery methods and that is the only thing ive ever pulled him up on, if he or you can produce evidence to say otherwise please feel free to do so!
> 
> You can call me names all you like, i dont know if you have some kind of learning difficulties? but i will not bring myself down to your pathetic level.
> 
> ...



Sorry but you already have. This is not the first frogsgalore thread you have been like this on, i will happily post you a link so you can have a recap.

Money is no issue when it comes to my frogs, the reason i ordered from Rich was purley because he had a male in stock and could post that day. Yes it may of been a little impatient but after a conversation with rich his methods, all though illegal, sounded no worse than any were else.

I have no learning difficulties mate i am very knowledgable person and am very helpful to alot of people in this section.

With issues like this it will always raise opinions, good and bad. People are slating these delivery methods as cruel and are saying that recieving Frogs like this is letting our selfs down. All though i can see your point i feel this is alot less worse than people buying WC stock, thats cruelty.


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## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

does this mean that when TNT and foo foo la fluff has their first DOA there service will in future be considered cruel and illegal?

Im just a tad curious.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

I know people that have had DOAs from TNT. They are no specialist in transporting live stock, the boxes are just put on the van the same a sroyal mail. the only difference is they knowingly take livestock.


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## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

So im guessing that TNT gurantee's a refund on the DOA out weighs the animal cruelty bit right?

sorry, i know i shouldnt be biting at the bait.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Richie has offered an absolutely fantastic service, kept me up to date with the situation and has given me a 50% refund for the hassle and seems genuinely concerned for the frog's welfare. To be honest I wasn't aware postage was Royal Mail but I don't see the difference between this and TNT other than the legality, nor will I mention the number of reptile couriers that really don't live up to the name.

It's a contentious issue and I can see both sides of the argument but accusations of selfishness and lack of caring are childish and not needed on this forum.


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## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Seems like many people are missing the wood for the trees.

At the end of the day no amount of satisfied customers can convince me that posting animals is fine so please save your breath.

What your doing is wrong, END OF STORY, and no person who was really concerned about an animals welfare would send or receive animals this way.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

ghastly152 said:


> What your doing is wrong, END OF STORY, and no person who was really concerned about an animals welfare would send or receive animals this way.


Well you've had my input and I can do nothing more. Clearly the 4 months of viv building and research means nothing, because I unknowingly had my pets delivered via royal mail.

Lets just hope everyone who does purchase frogs in the future makes sure they haven't been sourced from overseas...or even....a reptile show! :mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## blackbat67 (Jul 1, 2008)

I've ordered from Richie before and was pleased with the service, even though it turned out to be the wrong species (not his fault) and he refunded me promptly. Yes, it is Royal Mail next day delivery - but that's just the same as TNT basically, is it not?


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

jesuslovestheladies said:


> does this mean that when TNT and foo foo la fluff has their first DOA there service will in future be considered cruel and illegal?
> 
> Im just a tad curious.


just because something dies in transit doesnt make it illegal does it? we are not CONSIDERING royal mail to be cruel and illegal, it is ILLEGAL!!and whether posting animals via royal mail is cruel or not it is ILLEGAL! also in 3 years of doing this not once has reptile taxi had a DOA. We like to put this down to our knowledge, being able to check the animals periodically throughout the journey, them being delivered same day, and not being thrown about or shipped down conveyor belts.... all of which royal mail cannot do when deliverin animals through their system


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

blackbat67 said:


> I've ordered from Richie before and was pleased with the service, even though it turned out to be the wrong species (not his fault) and he refunded me promptly. Yes, it is Royal Mail next day delivery - but that's just the same as TNT basically, is it not?


no tnt is not basically the same they no there sending reptiles and no to be more careful also animals are usaly sent out at 4pm to arrive before 12 unlike royal mail when most things have to be sent before 12am to be next day so more time in a box for the animals and also can be delivered up intill 5 as av said before av seen my posty walking up the stairs with the box under his arm with even just insects in it so they would treat frogs and the like the same altho with tnt they always carry the box right way up as the box says live animals or live reptiles and they no to take more care


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> just because something dies in transit doesnt make it illegal does it?


So the lageality IS your only concern, otherwise your tirade would be against TNT aswell.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

So is the issue here about A.) breaking the law or B.) is there any real difference between Trash N Tramples and Royal Mail's Recorded Next Day Delivery and their handling of packages on the road?. Well, there really is no difference in the way they're handled, delivery drivers are delivery drivers whichever company they work for, it all gets slammed on the back of the truck at the end of the day. The only difference, of course, is knowing that you've been a law abiding citizen  ...


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> they always carry the box right way up as the box says live animals or live reptiles and they no to take more care


The trick is to walk up to the door holding the box correctly, as this gives the reciever of the goods the impression that this is how it's been consistently handled since it set off on it's long journey between many pairs of hands, and sometimes, boots


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> So the lageality IS your only concern, otherwise your tirade would be against TNT aswell.


 
course it isnt our only concern and if you read through my post history you would see that we dont support tnt delivering animals either. but seen as frogsgalore from what i can see uses royal mail and not TNT there would be not much point me arguing against TNT, though if he used TNT i would advise not to use them as i have heard lots of horror stories about animals arriving with broken legs etc and wouldnt even advise sending through tnt. The only good point, and i use the term loosly is that tnt usually know what they are delivering, so it is with some hope that that knowledge will mean they handle them with care, though i do realise this isnt always the case. The point is though that with all the other points that i can list as to why it is so wrong to use royal mail to post animals, being illegal is one of the major ones and people seem to condone this illegal method because none have arrived dead, and are quite happy to carry on doing so until an animal has to lose its life.


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

anyone bored go count how many times she has said illegal since starting posting :lol2:


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

This thread has just become a pointless rant like so many others


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## Darbz (Mar 22, 2009)

vitticeptus said:


> This thread has just become a pointless rant like so many others


Thank goodness.
I've wanted to say this for ages but didn't want to interupt what could have been an interesting debate for the posters, but since someone else has noticed too..

this thread is on the verge of/has descended into petty name calling and quite frankly, is dull now. Could a Mod please close it?


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

Alex M said:


> The trick is to walk up to the door holding the box correctly, as this gives the reciever of the goods the impression that this is how it's been consistently handled since it set off on it's long journey between many pairs of hands, and sometimes, boots


maybe where your from but the guy that delivers here always asks what am having delivered this time and comes in for a look at the animals and is interested in them him self not just chucking boxes about


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> maybe where your from but the guy that delivers here always asks what am having delivered this time and comes in for a look at the animals and is interested in them him self not just chucking boxes about


Sure, but you don't really think that your parcel is initially collected AND then delivered by the same TNT driver do you? That parcel will have gone between various depots and many pairs of hands en route to you


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> anyone bored go count how many times she has said illegal since starting posting :lol2:


So you actually noticed that I'd mentioned it? From the way you were posting I thought that point had past you by. At least now I know that you are fully aware that you condone an illegal activity... N yeah you can add that one to your tally too. And while we're here have a few more, illegal illegal ILLEGAL :lol2:
And for the record yes I do think that TNT animal accounts should also be made illegal ( oops there's that word again ) 
I'm not the only one here gettin boring you know andy


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I think everyone has made their opinions clear.

Group hug time?


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## blackbat67 (Jul 1, 2008)

:grouphug:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I think everyone has made their opinions clear.
> 
> Group hug time?


That made me giggle... You big wuss :lol2:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

well this thread went well..........


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

a giggle yay the bee has landed :lol2:

FFLF "At least now I know that you are fully aware that you condone an illegal activity" and heres another .

LCC FTW : victory: and no i dont particpate in the smoking/injestion of it but its another legality thats wrong : victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> a giggle yay the bee has landed :lol2:
> 
> FFLF "At least now I know that you are fully aware that you condone an illegal activity" and heres another .
> 
> LCC FTW : victory: and no i dont particpate in the smoking/injestion of it but its another legality thats wrong : victory:


i can giggle you know, its just when you are dealin with someone whos as annoying as thrush its hard to muster a giggle :lol2:

LCC? im unfamiliar with that abreviation. And we arent discussing what laws we think are and arent right, we are discussing one, so bringin in others to try and justify why one thats totally different shouldnt be illegal to me is pointless


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## AndyJY (Jul 30, 2009)

i was just confirming that i condone more than 1 ilegal activity, 

a might have been anoying on this thread but thats something weve got in common :lol2:

: victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

AndyJY said:


> i was just confirming that i condone more than 1 ilegal activity,
> 
> a might have been anoying on this thread but thats something weve got in common :lol2:
> 
> : victory:


you havent got a better come back than that? im very disappointed, youre a scot, youre meant to be quick witted! :lol2:
at least im annoying AND lawful :2thumb:


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