# Ideas for my Murphys patternless Leopard Gecko?



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

Any ideas would be great for my Murphys Patternless Leopard Gecko. I brought her as a 'Him' then a few weeks later brought a 'Her' to go with. Silly me didn't think to check and I now have two female murphy's and was thinking that instead of buying a male Murphy's patternless could try something a bit more exciting. 
The only males I have at the moment are;
1 x SHCTB
1 x Normal
1 x Tangerine Albino

If anyone thinks one of these would work than great but really I'm looking to purchase another Male as I only have 3 and 10 females to serve!

I was thinking of a Male Blizzard?


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

TCReptile said:


> Any ideas would be great for my Murphys Patternless Leopard Gecko. I brought her as a 'Him' then a few weeks later brought a 'Her' to go with. Silly me didn't think to check and I now have two female murphy's and was thinking that instead of buying a male Murphy's patternless could try something a bit more exciting.
> The only males I have at the moment are;
> 1 x SHCTB
> 1 x Normal
> ...


A true Banana blizzard is a patternless blizzard, you don't see many of them about really, could be a good avenue. Or could even be really adventurous and try for albino patternless blizzards 

This could be achieved potentially in 2 generations with a Blazing blizzard male to get triple het babies.


----------



## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Well if you dont get another patternless your looking at a 2 generation project.
Blizzard x patternless would produce normal double het for blizz and patty and then you could breed the offspring back to each other, but for some reason "banana blizzards" seem very hard to produce.

You could go down the line of patty albinos which would be the same as above just using albino instead of blizzard, but are more commonly available!


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

If a bred an Albino to one and a Blizzard the other than bred one of each of their offspring together what would be the chances of getting Albino Patternless Blizzards (Or Blazing Banana Blizzards) Or would THEIR offspring be double hets?


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

1/64 chance of a BBB from triple recessive parents.... I think


----------



## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

MrMike said:


> 1/64 chance of a BBB from triple recessive parents.... I think


2 triple het parents would have about 1.5625% (or something silly like that) chance of producing **** for all 3 traits.

And crossing the tang albino to both would only produce... normals het albino and blizzard and normals het albino and patty. So it would be more than 2 gens for the triple ressesive. And thats with good luck!


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Patternless, blizzard and tremper albino are all linked genes so they don't behave like normal genes.

If you bred a patternless to a blizzard (or a tremper albino) and then bred the offspring then technically you would get 1 in 16 patternless blizzards but in reality you would probably have to produce hundreds of babies to get one.


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

sam12345 said:


> 2 triple het parents would have about 1.5625% (or something silly like that) chance of producing **** for all 3 traits.


1/64 is 1.5625%


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

Me all confused! :lol2: So what your basically saying is get a male Patternless and leave the complicated stuff to you guys!

MrMike your maths is amazing... makes me think i should've payed more attention at school!


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

sam12345 said:


> 2 triple het parents would have about 1.5625% (or something silly like that) chance of producing **** for all 3 traits.
> 
> And crossing the tang albino to both would only produce... normals het albino and blizzard and normals het albino and patty. So it would be more than 2 gens for the triple ressesive. And thats with good luck!


Not my Tangerine Albino... just an excuss for Tim to buy me another leo (in this case a male albino) but I think you guys have saved him some pennies!


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

TCReptile said:


> Me all confused! :lol2: So what your basically saying is get a male Patternless and leave the complicated stuff to you guys!
> 
> MrMike your maths is amazing... makes me think i should've payed more attention at school!


Or basically don't get something with tremper albino or blizzard in :razz: (unless you want to work on that as a project). You could get something co-dominant (like a mack snow) that was het patternless then you'd get mack snow patternless', mack snows, patternless' and normals


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

intravenous said:


> Or basically don't get something with tremper albino or blizzard in :razz: (unless you want to work on that as a project). You could get something co-dominant (like a mack snow) that was het patternless then you'd get mack snow patternless', mack snows, patternless' and normals


I like that idea! I love mack snows aswell as they are gorgeous looking leos!

So how does this sound... Tim for christmas i would like... :lol2:


----------



## Moosmoo (Jul 21, 2008)

TCReptile said:


> I like that idea! I love mack snows aswell as they are gorgeous looking leos!
> 
> So how does this sound... Tim for christmas i would like... :lol2:


ooh claire, have you seen the hypo het bell albinos at work? (waterlife) im the girl whos always there at weekends with dark hair! :flrt:


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

Moosmoo said:


> ooh claire, have you seen the hypo het bell albinos at work? (waterlife) im the girl whos always there at weekends with dark hair! :flrt:


Not yet! I'll have to come down and have a look! I'm a sucker for a cheeky leo grin!


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Mack snow patternless are gorgeous as well


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

I'll have 2 of everything please :lol2: I'm still tempted by the idea of a blizzard, but think I'll go for mack snow patternless so my poor lil' brain can cope with the maths! And they are gorgeous too!


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

6.25% chance of a patternless blizzard form double het babies


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

MrMike said:


> 6.25% chance of a patternless blizzard form double het babies


As I said though...in practice its probably more like a 0.1% or less chance because they are linked.


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

intravenous said:


> As I said though...in practice its probably more like a 0.1% or less chance because they are linked.


I don't know tbh, have you got any links with this information. Haven't heard it before.


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

MrMike said:


> I don't know tbh, have you got any links with this information. Haven't heard it before.


Nope, sorry...I'm having a look but can't find any good sources. It doesn't seem to be that well documented. I'll keep looking.


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

intravenous said:


> Nope, sorry...I'm having a look but can't find any good sources. It doesn't seem to be that well documented. I'll keep looking.


Don't worry too much, I have had a quick google with no luck as yet.


----------



## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

MrMike said:


> Don't worry too much, I have had a quick google with no luck as yet.


There is evidence that tremper albino and blizzard are linked and VMS herp has documented this: The Learning Center - Genetics 501 . There is also evidence as documented by VMS herp of tremper albino and patternless being linked: The Learning Center - Leopard Gecko Morphs . If albino is linked to both blizzard and patternless then it means that patternless and blizzard must also be linked.


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

intravenous said:


> There is evidence that tremper albino and blizzard are linked and VMS herp has documented this: The Learning Center - Genetics 501 . There is also evidence as documented by VMS herp of tremper albino and patternless being linked: The Learning Center - Leopard Gecko Morphs . If albino is linked to both blizzard and patternless then it means that patternless and blizzard must also be linked.


Very interesting read. not quite with it today, but will read tomorrow when the brain is working again


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Blizzard X Patternless = .

Normal HET blizzard,patternless.
----
----
Normal HET blizzard,patternless X Normal HET blizzard,patternless = .

Normal.
Normal HET blizzard.
Normal HET patternless.
Normal HET blizzard,patternless.
Blizzard.
Blizzard HET patternless.
Patternless.
Patternless HET blizzard.
BLIZZARD PATTERNLESS:no1:. 

The only problem is blizzard patternless look very much like yellow blizzards.They hatch looking like yellow blizzard.The don't look like patternless other that baring a resemblance when adult.So the blizzard gene seems a more dominant gene.
----
----
Blizzard patternless X Blizzard patternless = .

Blizzard patternless.
----
Blizzard Patternless X Blizzard = .

Blizzard HET patternless.
----
Blizzard patternless X patternless = .

Patternless HET blizzard.
----


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

gazz said:


> Blizzard X Patternless = .
> 
> Normal HET blizzard,patternless.
> ----
> ...


So I could end up with what i think is a Blizzard Patternless and is actually a yellow Blizzard and would only be able to find out 100% by test breeding?


----------



## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

TCReptile said:


> So I could end up with what i think is a Blizzard Patternless and is actually a yellow Blizzard and would only be able to find out 100% by test breeding?


Pretty much yes, you'd have to put them to a full patty no hets and if you get all pattys you know your "blizzard" is a "banana blizzard"!


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

i'd go with a tremper albino patternless male. there's a good chance that one or both of your females is het tremper, and you could get more in the first generation, if you don't get any albino's from a female, then the next season you could put her to a bell (or even better a snow bell) to get double het patty/bells and mack double het patty/bells, if you bred two mack double hets you'd have a 1 in 64 chance of hitting a new morph, never been made before, a suer snow patternless bell:no1:

allong with other very very rare morphs like patternless bells and mack patternless bells. 1 in 32 for each egg


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

boywonder said:


> i'd go with a tremper albino patternless male. there's a good chance that one or both of your females is het tremper, and you could get more in the first generation, if you don't get any albino's from a female, then the next season you could put her to a bell (or even better a snow bell) to get double het patty/bells and mack double het patty/bells, if you bred two mack double hets you'd have a 1 in 64 chance of hitting a new morph, never been made before, a suer snow patternless bell:no1:
> 
> allong with other very very rare morphs like patternless bells and mack patternless bells. 1 in 32 for each egg



Oh the possibilties are undless! I'm going to have to have a hard think now about what male I'm going to purchase. I do like the sound of making my own Super Snow Patternless Bell Geckos... so watch this space :lol2:


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

TCReptile said:


> Oh the possibilties are undless! I'm going to have to have a hard think now about what male I'm going to purchase. I do like the sound of making my own Super Snow Patternless Bell Geckos... so watch this space :lol2:


good luck with that project, i'd buy one for sure :flrt:,
i'd buy a pair of hets too :lol2:


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

TCReptile said:


> Super Snow Patternless Bell Geckos... so watch this space :lol2:


If you made a Balbino patternless of any type you'd be the first to my knowledge.Would be great if you pulled it off.


----------



## TCReptile (Sep 9, 2008)

Ok decision made!

I've decided that I'm going for a Mack Snow het patternless for now so that I get instant results next year... but if a male Snow Balbino comes up I'll be snapping him up! Tim says that this is the LAST leo I can have... and only because I'm short a suitable male... but then again he's making me a leo rack today to house them in and I'm sure he wouldn't notice if there was an empty space one day then occupied the next (He has no interest in geckos at all)


----------



## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

sam12345 said:


> Well if you dont get another patternless your looking at a 2 generation project.
> Blizzard x patternless would produce normal double het for blizz and patty and then you could breed the offspring back to each other, but for some reason "banana blizzards" seem very hard to produce.
> 
> You could go down the line of patty albinos which would be the same as above just using albino instead of blizzard, but are more commonly available!


 
I think the problem with Banana Blizzards is the fact that when you produce them you cant tell which ones are the actual Bananas and can only tell once you breed them too?


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

TCReptile said:


> Ok decision made!
> 
> I've decided that I'm going for a Mack Snow het patternless for now so that I get instant results next year... but if a male Snow Balbino comes up I'll be snapping him up! Tim says that this is the LAST leo I can have... and only because I'm short a suitable male... but then again he's making me a leo rack today to house them in and I'm sure he wouldn't notice if there was an empty space one day then occupied the next (He has no interest in geckos at all)


haha, will look forward to seeing then :2thumb:


----------

