# Does a pet shop license cover dwal?



## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Does anyone know if a pet shop license covers dwa's? or are they two seperates ?

The owner of the local reptile shop thinks having a pet shop license lets you keep animals normally requiring a dwal.


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## TBUK (Feb 25, 2005)

WeThePeople said:


> Does anyone know if a pet shop license covers dwa's? or are they two seperates ?
> 
> The owner of the local reptile shop thinks having a pet shop license lets you keep animals normally requiring a dwal.


Mine does :no1:


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

think it lets you keep them but not sell, or sell them but not keep them lol :?, cant member where i heard that.​


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Mine allows me to keep and sell. Obviously with selling the buyer is also meant to have a DWA 

I assume it is very similar with most, if not all counties.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

The license by defult says you can. Some local authoritied are stating "no DWA" on the license but essentually this is illegal. 

The shop i work in has a license that covered DWA but the council must be notified by phone of any animals covered when they come in and go out. 

Also there is no Lawwful requirement to sell to a DWA holder. However you must obtain the persons details before the sale.


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Cheers, i wont be selling dangerous animals just considering keeping them and ive been told a pet shop license is a lot easier to obtain than a dwal.


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## TBUK (Feb 25, 2005)

WeThePeople said:


> Cheers, i wont be selling dangerous animals just considering keeping them and ive been told a pet shop license is a lot easier to obtain than a dwal.


Are you thinking about a PSL at your home? A bit of a warning if you are you might have to go in for planning for change of usage


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

TBUK said:


> Are you thinking about a PSL at your home? A bit of a warning if you are you might have to go in for planning for change of usage


No, i keep my large reptiles at work - I have a small flat and large pythons would take up more room than the wife and i


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## TBUK (Feb 25, 2005)

WeThePeople said:


> No, i keep my large reptiles at work - I have a small flat and large pythons would take up more room than the wife and i


:lol2: fair enough what you thinking of getting?


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

TBUK said:


> :lol2: fair enough what you thinking of getting?


Red spitting cobra i think. Although i think id be happy with any venomous cobra :no1:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

they are nice, fast though I would imagine not for the faint hearted :lol2:


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## ReptileRescueHull (Dec 23, 2006)

WeThePeople said:


> Cheers, i wont be selling dangerous animals just considering keeping them and ive been told a pet shop license is a lot easier to obtain than a dwal.


 

*DWA or the Dangerous Wild Animals act if you prefer was first introduced in 1976 and revised in 1984 in a hope to legislate the keeping of dangerous animals by the private keepers as pets with the main focus being on big cats (hence the stories of beast of Bodmin moor and sightings of large black predatory cats, that were turned loose by their keepers in the late 70’s rather than buying what was seen as a expensive government money spinner). *
*The licence aims to ensure that where private individuals keep dangerous wild animals they do so in circumstances which did not create any risk to the public and safeguard the welfare of animals.*
*Licences are required for any animal which appear on the schedule to the act. These are issued by relevant department, normally the environmental health department of local councils, and will only be granted when the authority is satisfied that it would not be contrary to public interest, on the grounds of safety or nuisance, (you are unlikely to be able to keep Tigers if you live next to a school for instance); that the applicant is a suitable person; and the animal’s accommodation is adequate and secure.*


*Reptiles*​*Crocodilians*
*Alligatoridae*
*Alligators and Caimans*
*Crocodylidae*
*Crocodiles and the false gharial*
*Gavialidae*
*The garial (otherwise known as the gavial) *
*Lizards and snakes*
*Colubridae of the species of the genera atractaspis, malpolon, psammophis and theatornis and of the species boiga dendrophila, dispholidus typus, rhabdophis subminiatus and rhadophins tigrinus*
*Mole vipers and certain rear fanged venomous snakes (including the moila and Montpellier snakes, sand snake, twig snake, the mangrove (otherwise known as the yellow-ringed cat snake), boomslang, the red necked keelback and the yamakagshi (otherwise known as the Japanese tiger-snake)*
*Elapidae*
*Certain front fanged venomous snakes (including cobras, coral snakes, the desert black snake, kraits, mambas, sea snake and all Australian poisonous snakes (including the death adders)*
*Helodermatidae*
*The gila monster and the (Mexican) beaded lizard*
*viperidae*
*Certain front-fanged venomous snakes (including adders, the barb camarilla, the bushmaster, the copperhead, the fer-de-lance, moccasins, rattlesnakes and vipers)*​*Invertebrates *​
*Spiders*
*Ctenidae of the species of the genus phoneutria*
*Wandering spiders*
*Dipluridae of the species of the genus atrax*
*The Sydney funnel-web spider and its close relatives*
*Lycosidae of the species lycosa raptoria *
*The brazilian wolf spider*
*Sicariidae of the species of the genus loxosceles *
*Brown recluse spider (other wise known as the violin spiders)*
*Theridiidae of the species of the genus latrodectus*
*The black widow spider (other wise known as red back spider) and its close relatives)*
*Scorpions*
*Buthidae*
*Buthid scorpions*​


*If any of the species that you are thinking of keeping is listed above you must obtain a valid DWA licence prior to obtaining the animal.*
*This is done, by first applying to the local authority / council, for the application to keep dangerous wild animals. This form will ask some brief details in relation to you, the address where you propose to keep your animals at, and the species and intended numbers.*
*The local authority will arrange to attend and view the enclosure with a vet. And ask you some questions regarding the animal and your knowledge of keeping (such as diet, heating requirements if necessary, who your vet is, how will you clean and dispose of waste, again depending on species) this type of animal they will also require a copy of your public liability insurance that should be in place and you must have the policy details.*​


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## ReptileRescueHull (Dec 23, 2006)

continued from post before


*Enclosures*
*Dependant on species enclosures and size differs completely. But most mammals have certain similarities where heating and lights are used, make sure your animal can not get to any cabling, make sure that heaters are covered and the animal can not burn itself , and because these both use electricity. Use only properly fitted sockets (fused) and it’s a good idea to install a fire extinguisher.*
*If you are using a shed or aviary type enclosure, like you would for most primates these need a sterile area to allow you some where safe to stand with in the enclosure this will also stop the animal from escaping.*
*Construction*
*The above type of enclosures must be quality built and if wood is used only screws should be used not nails, heat area’s should be insulated and ventilated.*
*Where meshed outside runs are to be used again quality construction and double meshing used (heavy correct grade mesh is to be used and fixed with u nails, note: chicken wire is not suitable for any DWA animal) with a cavity installed to prevent the animal reaching out or peoples fingers reaching in.*
*As with everything regarding any animal, a good under pinning knowledge of the species and habitat is required so reading and research is essential. *​ 

*This is the out line of how to correctly approach keeping Dangerous Wild Animals. The transition from a pet owner to a professional keeper is one not to be taken lightly. Becoming a professional keeper of any animal comes with a great deal of responsibility not just to the animal in question but to your family and your neighbours and the general public. The animals listed on the DWA are on there because they are unpredictable and in some case simply Dangerous. *
*The dangerous wild animals act is regulated by DEFRA but enforced by local area councils. The application to keep DWA species is made to your local council offices and a form would normally be sent out asking you to out line your intentions and the animal you intend keeping. Once this has taken place the council and a vet will visit your home and an inspection will take place in relation to your enclosure and you will be asked questions about the species you intend keeping.*​

_*Firstly you must research the animal you’re intending to keep. When carrying out your research you must find out as much as you can about the animals natural habitat in the wild and research to see what you as keeper would need to do to relate this to keeping in captivity.* _​
*An example of this would be, if the animal you’re intending to keep is a spider monkey, they live high up in canopy of the rain forest, so to keep in captivity you would need high branches / trees and a lot of space inside and out.*​
*Another example would be, if you intended keeping a tiger, in the their natural habitat tigers spend time swimming and basking in water so you would need some type of pool for this animal in a captive enclosure.*​
_*Building a suitable enclosure for the animal you intend keeping is paramount. The DWA is mainly about public safety but does have some interests in relation to the animal’s welfare.* _
*All enclosure should be of solid construction and its recommended that advice should be sort from other private keepers as these enclosure are not cheep and getting it wrong could be very costly, remember they are Dangerous Wild Animals so get it rite first time.*
*All enclosures must be adequately sized nut bolt and screw construction not nailed; walls should be lined / bored and insulated as must the roof in the case of heated enclosures. Normal type shed conversions are not recommended as they generally are not strong enough.*
*External area must be solid again and nut bolt screw fixing used. In relation to gauge of mesh this is species specific, yet chicken wire is NOT suitable for any DWA animal, large cats for example require chain link fencing and posts concreted in to the ground. Primates such as tamarins require 14 – 16 gauge mesh with no bigger than 1" x ½" holes. *
*Where mesh is used on outdoor enclosure this must be double meshed with a cavity so as not to allow your animals claws paws teeth through and to stop fingers being put back through. This will also prevent any type of predatory attack from cats dogs foxes or even birds of prey, that will attack smaller type mammals e.g. Tamarin monkeys.*
*All enclosure must have a sterile area. This is an area you stand in safely and your animal can not get access to. The sterile area serves two purposes. On entry to your enclosure having a sterile area this mean you can open the door with out the worry of the animal / s escaping past you. *
*Where enclosures have an in and out door area all access doors / flaps / bob holes must be lockable. E.g. if you have a large predator cat you must be able to keep your animal captured inside / outside of your enclosure while you can access the indoor / outdoor part of the enclosure safely for feeding, cleaning or general husbandry work with out fear of attack *​
*(REMEMBER THEY ARE WILD ANIMALS AND UNPREDICTABLE).*​
_*A lot of DWA species come from tropical climates and the need to heat enclosures is very common. To provide heat you must provide electricity to your enclosure. A qualified electrician should do this, as extension leads running from the house are not acceptable. Main power feed must come into a fused point in the sterile area where your animal can not access the cabling.* _
*Providing heat for mammals is best done by thermostat controlled oil filled radiators. This type of heat must be encased in a form of radiator cover so your animal can not access and burn its self. With any power cable in sturdy trunking back to the power point.*
*Remember with electricity comes many hazards so a fire extinguisher should be present.*​
_*When sighting your enclosure consideration should be given to the type of ground it is to sit on. For example your internal enclosure should be on a concrete base free from damp that could weaken the integrity of your enclosure. The out door part of your enclosure should be sat on concrete block but if the species you intend keeping is an animal that digs consideration must be made for this. And a foundation wall must be sunk in to the ground to stop any escape.* _​
_*Good quality locks should be used not to just protect your animals from theft but to stop vandals or would be intruders allowing your animals escape. Internal locks must also be child proof especially when you intend keeping primates.* _​
_*Upon inspection the council vet will want to test your knowledge and questions surrounding diet, stimulation, heat, and your intention for keeping will be asked. Some council vets may not know very much about the chosen animal so you having quality researched knowledge is a good foundation.* _​
_*Before you will be granted DWA you will also require public liability insurance. This can be obtained from companies such as Exotic Direct - Insurance for Birds, Mammals and Reptiles and such like.* _​
*Remember your intending keeping dangerous wild animals do not leave your self-open to a disaster! Get it right first time, if in doubt ask.*​
*DO IT RIGHT! BE A RESPONSIBLE KEEPER!*​ 
*hope that helps you (Reptile Rescue Hull)*​


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks, ive read a lot of that on my local council website  Ive spoke to the local vet and my local council and they are confident ill be able to get a pet shop license with DWA entitlement if i can prove i can look after the animals i want.

Not sure if im gunna go ahead with it though, probably just pipe dreaming, but you never know


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

snakelover said:


> think it lets you keep them but not sell, or sell them but not keep them lol :?, cant member where i heard that.​


Morning all you pet shop licence entitles you to keep and sell( but it is wise to let you local licincing officer know what you are doing ( even just to stay on his good side then no surprise for him if you know what I mean)
Now something not a lot know if you see something in a pet shop and it's not for sale then that shop is breaking the law as that shop then needs a zoo licence for the display of animals(If the animal is for display that is if sick or on holls then thats different again)


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

but if it gets pulled up, the animals are for sale, but they are £100,000 each, dont think many will pay that for a beardie or a royal etc. ..


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Hmm.. well I told my licensing officer I was displaying animals and he said, that's fine.. but they will count on the quota of maximum animals housed on the license, is all... didn't mention any need for additional licensing.

Is it just me who thinks it's a bit weird that there is an essentially then a "loophole" in the DWA - if it is easier to get a pet shop license than a DWA and a pet shop license lets you keep everything..... the pet shop license really should be more specific, be only relevant to businesses/traders and should be harder to get, and more stringent than a DWA?

Does just seem like a loophole to me  I think pet shop licenses are way too easy to get in some places anyway.. and way too hard to lose again!


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Athravan said:


> Hmm.. well I told my licensing officer I was displaying animals and he said, that's fine.. but they will count on the quota of maximum animals housed on the license, is all... didn't mention any need for additional licensing.
> 
> Is it just me who thinks it's a bit weird that there is an essentially then a "loophole" in the DWA - if it is easier to get a pet shop license than a DWA and a pet shop license lets you keep everything..... the pet shop license really should be more specific, be only relevant to businesses/traders and should be harder to get, and more stringent than a DWA?
> 
> Does just seem like a loophole to me  I think pet shop licenses are way too easy to get in some places anyway.. and way too hard to lose again!


I agree entirely. Especially about licences being far too hard to lose.

We've looked into it here, just out of interest, as we were considering going the DWA route in a couple of years.

After we applied for all the gumpf from our local council we realised that with a few minor alterations my house would technically be perfectly fine to get a pet shop license.

I've never looked further into it, eg the legalities and ramifications of applying for/getting a pet shop licence for a private residence, but on a purely 'tick all the boxes' level then all i'd need would be some very minor alterations.

I have no interest in persuing this route at the minute, i'm not stupid enough to cut any corners where hots are concerned, I think there is far too much "keeping up with the jones' " on this forum. 

DWA (etc) is there for a reason, to stop people who should not be keeping these animals from doing so.

Mason


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Athravan said:


> Hmm.. well I told my licensing officer I was displaying animals and he said, that's fine.. but they will count on the quota of maximum animals housed on the license, is all... didn't mention any need for additional licensing.
> 
> Is it just me who thinks it's a bit weird that there is an essentially then a "loophole" in the DWA - if it is easier to get a pet shop license than a DWA and a pet shop license lets you keep everything..... the pet shop license really should be more specific, be only relevant to businesses/traders and should be harder to get, and more stringent than a DWA?
> 
> Does just seem like a loophole to me  I think pet shop licenses are way too easy to get in some places anyway.. and way too hard to lose again!


very much so, i think there should be given out with entitlements too. Everyman and his dog are breading leo's and corns and if they are selling then maybe they should be subject to a few extra rules and require a license, thenit should vary in degree right up to those who important zoo animals etc. Everyone falling under the same umbrella is stupid really and because its run by the councils licensing dept, who most of the time deal with taxi drivers and pub landlords some councils dont know that much about animals and what not. Thats why some point blank refuse DWA entitlement to anyone who hasnt had a pet shop for some time.


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## bee pampered (May 22, 2007)

I have no interest in persuing this route at the minute, i'm not stupid enough to cut any corners where hots are concerned, I think there is far too much "keeping up with the jones' " on this forum. 




SORRY but the way you make it sound ( sorry if iv read it wrong) is as if people with DWA cut corners with hots and only get them to "keep up with the jones" 
I have never been to anybodys house or shop who have kept DWA
and anybodiescut corners

But I have been to buy standard run of mill type snakes in private sale's and would not even touch them (mouth rot or mites) But I can not say this has been the case with DWA


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

indeep said:


> I have no interest in persuing this route at the minute, i'm not stupid enough to cut any corners where hots are concerned, I think there is far too much "keeping up with the jones' " on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nonononononono.


Quite the reverse. People are starting to see appliying for a pet shop licence and a very easy way of keeping hots without the need for a DWA.

MY comment about keeping up with the jones':

I simply mean that all of a sudden there are a lot of people who think it would be cool to own hots, you can tell by some of the posts that they have put little/no thought into it. They see (or come across like this) owning hots as something they should do so they can say they do.

BAasically what I mean is people are forever postong on here going on about this species ankd that species and about how they will definately vbe getting one, then you see the same people posting about basic husbandry mistakes. the kind of basic husbandry mistake that would mean a visit to hostpital at the very least if you involved venomous snakes.

Mason


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## bee pampered (May 22, 2007)

I do own a DWA but I dont shout it from the roof tops and I do understand what you are saying about people who are now getting hots....


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