# Uk primate community



## jambos reptiles (Dec 28, 2012)

hey guys i would like to get to know some of our uk primate keepers try get away from all the american keepers


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Lol.
Good luck with this one.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

You are right in avoiding the American way of primate keeping. Or at least the widely publicised way, ie a single monkey in the house, dressed in clothes & nappies, fed crap, canine teeth capped or removed, babies routinely removed from parents for hand-rearing, etc.

Take a look at BEMA, the British Exotic Mammal Association, in my signature.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> You are right in avoiding the American way of primate keeping. Or at least the widely publicised way, ie a single monkey in the house, dressed in clothes & nappies, fed crap, canine teeth capped or removed, babies routinely removed from parents for hand-rearing, etc.
> 
> Take a look at BEMA, the British Exotic Mammal Association, in my signature.


Silly question Colin.
How can looking at BEMA introduce him to the uk primate comunity.
Not that im having a go.
Just curious.
Bema does good work.
Just cant get my head round it.
I know hundreds of keepers but none are bema members.
Or do you meen for advice.?


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

There are a number of things we're working on with regards to primates, Peter... some of which we will probably be seeking your advice on  All will be revealed once in place :2thumb:


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

5plusmany said:


> There are a number of things we're working on with regards to primates, Peter... some of which we will probably be seeking your advice on  All will be revealed once in place :2thumb:


Ok.
Kinda understand.lol
But pointing newbies there at the moment is gonna gain members.
But what can be achieved for them.
I like the principle.
Its good.
So is the responce by certain ones to problems.
Bad sales etc.
But its the mixed views on how to keep.
Thats what detters the likes of myself.
Its why people into primates properly
Stick together and dont get involved.
Dont take the wrong way.
All seem to see this as a cleat.
But its not.
Theres new people pop up quite alot.
Looking for diff blood lines for example.
But tend to keep away from the wrong type.
And the wrong type pop up too much.
It takes a long time to understand whats involved.
But everybody needs to learn somewhere.
Thats where the problem is.
Miss informed.
Looking back over old posts on here for example.
Most kept in pucka inside with uv etc.
(not my cup of tea)
But babies still sold on.
Yous have a hard job.
And as said im always happy to give an opinion.
But you get fed up with the same debates and arguments.
Looking forward to seeing what your working on


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

I think I know what you're getting at, and thank for being diplomatic about it; however, as and when BEMA do put together a primate Code of Practice this will take into account the views of keepers such as yourself, as well as best practice guidelines set out by the likes of Defra and professional/scientific viewpoints. I think 'we' (i.e. the exotics - keeping community) all generally agree on the accepted way of keeping primates and it differs quite substantially to the ways of other countries whistling2 and I can assure you that BEMA (and *all* it's active team members) will ensure our policies and advice reflect this. 
Thank you for your support, it is much appreciated.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't want to hijack the original thread as it is not about BEMA but suffice to say, the work that we are doing with regard to primate keeping does not rely upon individual experience of the BEMA Team. Far from it.

Nothing BEMA does is based upon the sole experience of our members. 

We *REPRESENT* the community. This means that we are simply the ones who consult with 'all' keepers including some public zoo keepers where we lack input from the private community.

Peter, you have as much opportunity to contribute to the Primate Code of Practice - Species Specific Guidelines as the next person. Same goes for input into other areas of keeping such as Internet Sales. Getting each and every dedicated keeper's input is what enables us to formulate a balanced guideline.
I also want to emphasise that the Codes of Practice being produced by BEMA are all being published in editions - allowing new and updated editions to be released, keeping the documents fully up to date as new methods and informations are developed within the hobby.

We have to be a little cryptic at this point in time which is frustrating but please rest assured that BEMA is not an autocratic group trying to control primate keepers. We are a fully democratic group who are simply setting a standard of welfare for new keepers to achieve.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Caroline
Anything that will educate newbies is good.
It was the bit i understood when asked by Neil to join the primate section.
Its what i keep saying 
Kinda singing off same sheet.

There is a vast amount if seious keepers.
Hard to break into.lol
Said before and say again.
When your serious you get excepted.

Again on here.
Marms wanted.
They get.
Then its marms for sale.etc
Its that circle that causes all of the problems.

Things have changed on here.
Not refrred to as a cleat as much.
Most say they will talk if your prepaired to listen.

Any efforts for keeping proprrly is good.
But the others ways work.
Has done for years.
So they kinda look after each other.
No need fir net.

And i never for a moment thiught BEMA was trying to cintrol.
That wouldnt happen.
Not over night anyway.

I guess too many have a dream.
Then reality kicks in.
And its usually the minkeys who suffer.

Sorry for spelling.
Fingers to big for phone.
But i guess your used to it by now.
Keep up the good work


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

What do you think of a possible mentorship scheme Peter?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> What do you think of a possible mentorship scheme Peter?


Ive said before.
Ive a lad comes here.

Hes brill.
Could manage himself.
But wont till he can commit to them.

Alot of people have.
But you get to know them first.

What if you recomended someone.
And it went wrong.

But it does happen.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I think this is an excellent idea.

Far too many people 'like' the idea of keeping an exotic (I am not just talking primates here) yet don't have access to first hand expert advice or support - regurgitated information on the internet only goes so far. 

Internet says do A, B and C but animals don't read the internet or books and may do D, E or F. This is when having someone on hand or at the end of a telephone can be invaluable.

Just my 2p worth.



Pouchie said:


> What do you think of a possible mentorship scheme Peter?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I think this is an excellent idea.
> 
> Far too many people 'like' the idea of keeping an exotic (I am not just talking primates here) yet don't have access to first hand expert advice or support - regurgitated information on the internet only goes so far.
> 
> ...



The at the end of the phone happens as well.
Theres quite a few ive given mobile number to.
First babies and bit worried.
Theres even some got house number and call just to talk monkeys.
But like i said.
Baby situation etc would help anybody for the animals sake.
But would only get involved with those that were seious.
Getting fed up and moving on only stresses them.
So i dont encourage it.
Got rescue animal few months back.
This animal has mental probs and dont think she will ever be normal.
All thanks to people playing at having monkeys.
And also agree other species would benifit from mentoring as well.
I had mentor when i was into lizards.
And it worked...
Silly questions are only that when you dont know the answer.lol


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

From reading through the comments here, I think we are all pretty much in agreement with the way we would like to see the future of Primate Keeping.
We may have our differences in opinion on some of the smaller parts of the hobby, but the ultimate aim is the Welfare of the animals.

Any scheme BEMA introduces will be carefully thought through, and discussed with experts in the field before thrown out for public consumption. The last thing we want to do is put out a hashed plan that benefits no one.

As said, we have to be a little coy at the moment, for these reasons and others, but rest assured, we are doing our utmost to ensure it is well thought through.

The key to any mentorship (Primte, or otherwise) will always be the experts being used as mentors, and their willingness to help. there will be idiots that slip through the net and cause a bit of hassle, but this can be dealt with. The main point will be to ensure someone is aware of what they are letting themselves in for.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

To the OP, if you wish to PM me with any questions, concerns or anything else please do. I am by no means an expert on primates, and having never kept them, but I would be happy to help where I can, and maybe help you to gather the information in the correct manner.

cheers


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> The at the end of the phone happens as well.
> Theres quite a few ive given mobile number to.


Not saying it doesn't. There are plenty of ways we all mentor each other including by these forums and that has gone on for years.

The difference here is that mentorship can be done within a structured organisation which will give folks a place to start. That way, people like the OP would have somewhere specific to go instead of having to ask on a forum and sadly, often when they do - they get shot down or ignored.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Tarron said:


> From reading through the comments here, I think we are all pretty much in agreement with the way we would like to see the future of Primate Keeping.
> We may have our differences in opinion on some of the smaller parts of the hobby, but the ultimate aim is the Welfare of the animals.
> 
> Any scheme BEMA introduces will be carefully thought through, and discussed with experts in the field before thrown out for public consumption. The last thing we want to do is put out a hashed plan that benefits no one.
> ...


He has had several comunications with me tarron.
Young kid.
But seems to be listening.
But never sure.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

t


Pouchie said:


> Not saying it doesn't. There are plenty of ways we all mentor each other including by these forums and that has gone on for years.
> 
> The difference here is that mentorship can be done within a structured organisation which will give folks a place to start. That way, people like the OP would have somewhere specific to go instead of having to ask on a forum and sadly, often when they do - they get shot down or ignored.


There are no keepers i know that would let a 14yr old on to there premises.
No matter how structured you thought your group was.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> t
> 
> There are no keepers i know that would let a 14yr old on to there premises.
> No matter how structured you thought your group was.


Mentoring doesn't have to be done face to face, though some prefer it that way, that's up to them. Of course security issues must be taken into account also.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

It all seems to be getting bit confusing again.
Folks dreams differ.
Folks ideas etc differ.
Its all a bit its my ball and im not playing.
I know its all been giung on for a while.
Just answwred the question.
But good luck.
And i really hope yous achieve your goals.
But each to there own foljs.
Surelly that can be exepted..
Just stop jumping on people.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> t
> 
> There are no keepers i know that would let a 14yr old on to there premises.
> No matter how structured you thought your group was.


I do not understand why you have quoted my post and then made a completely irrelevant comment.

I mentioned nothing about asking keepers to allow 14yr olds or anyone else on their premises in fact I have not spoken about the proposed scheme in any detail at all. Earlier, I was just asking what you thought of the idea in general. 






PETERAROBERTSON said:


> It all seems to be getting bit confusing again.
> Folks dreams differ.
> Folks ideas etc differ.
> Its all a bit its my ball and im not playing.
> ...


 
LOL you're confused!? That makes two of us.

Is your above post aimed at me? Happy to discuss but I am totally lost now and don't know what we are discussing exactly.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

I would look on mentoring as they would come to the enclosures and learn first hand.
Not over the phone.
Therefore it would be no diff to here.
Maybe im not as educated as you all are.
But advice can be given over the phone.
Some things would need seen..
But yea getting confusing.
And i can be doing without upsetting anybody.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> I would look on mentoring as they would come to the enclosures and learn first hand.
> Not over the phone.
> Therefore it would be no diff to here.
> Maybe im not as educated as you all are.
> ...


I don't think you are upsetting anyone Peter, just online it can be tricky trying to get points across, etc.

Without going in to deep detail of the ideas we have, it will definitely seem confusing. It shouldn't be too long before we are accessing the community to, so all shall be revealed, and your view on it will be desired, as will everyones.

Hopefully, the OP is getting all the help required so that one day, if he goes in to primate care, he will have the best enclosures and the best advice to do what is best for the animals.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Tarron said:


> I don't think you are upsetting anyone Peter, just online it can be tricky trying to get points across, etc.
> 
> Without going in to deep detail of the ideas we have, it will definitely seem confusing. It shouldn't be too long before we are accessing the community to, so all shall be revealed, and your view on it will be desired, as will everyones.
> 
> Hopefully, the OP is getting all the help required so that one day, if he goes in to primate care, he will have the best enclosures and the best advice to do what is best for the animals.


Looking forward to it tarron.
Love talking about primates.
Apart from construction n martial arts its all i talk about.
I really hope somethings achieved fir the best.
But i hope certain ones can take others opinions on board.
Some are hard work.


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