# Energy bills



## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Have seen quite a few posts on Facebook of keepers selling up due to the increase in energy bills, so just wondered how everyone on here is getting on and in particular those with larger collections?


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I can only speak for myself but so far there has been a mark up but to be honest nothing like the huge increase that was prophesied. (I am with Ovo Energy at the moment and they are significantly better than my previous supplier).

Government support scheme has taken the teeth out of the bills so far.

Most of my enclosures are off during winter so that helps a lot. Will wait to see next year to get an idea of how bad it will really be. It's expensive... but maintaining a reasonably large collection has _always_ been expensive.


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## al stotton (Jul 27, 2008)

Short answer Stu , I'm sucking it up ,keeping animals isn't cheap.


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> I can only speak for myself but so far there has been a mark up but to be honest nothing like the huge increase that was prophesied. (I am with Ovo Energy at the moment and they are significantly better than my previous supplier).
> 
> Government support scheme has taken the teeth out of the bills so far.
> 
> Most of my enclosures are off during winter so that helps a lot. Will wait to see next year to get an idea of how bad it will really be. It's expensive... but maintaining a reasonably large collection has _always_ been expensive.


Thanks for the reply Francis. I've not noticed a huge difference yet however I only keep a small collection. 




al stotton said:


> Short answer Stu , I'm sucking it up ,keeping animals isn't cheap.


My thoughts exactly. It might well help the hobby overall if those that are breeding for a quick profit are put off at the thought of higher energy costs.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I suspect that higher energy costs will mean breeders bumping up their prices. Hopefully this will be beneficial as it will put an end to low cost herps being seen as almost disposable with the "who cares if it does I'll just replace it" attitude that I am sure is present. People will research more, and make sure they provide the correct husbandry if the animals are a higher price to buy.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Stu, I've already documented my circumstances...switch all but the Boa over to heat mats, and negotiated a small increase on the DD's but will be in debt come next April when the review is done.

Whilst the anticipated surge of collections being down sized or completely sold off may not have been as predicted, there does seem to be a lot more listings in the RFUK's classified section, and often as first time posters

As Ian mentions, maybe this will now see a rise in prices of hatchlings as breeders try and recoup the costs. 

It does amaze me though that the government could have saved a lot of money by not giving £400 to everyone but only those who really need it, as judging by the number of houses in this area that are already running outside Christmas lights all over their houses that rival Blackpool illuminations, they obviously didn't need the money....


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

ian14 said:


> I suspect that higher energy costs will mean breeders bumping up their prices. Hopefully this will be beneficial as it will put an end to low cost herps being seen as almost disposable with the "who cares if it does I'll just replace it" attitude that I am sure is present. People will research more, and make sure they provide the correct husbandry if the animals are a higher price to buy.


I hope you are right Ian 👍

But I wonder if, as demand drops, because more people struggle to even have any disposable income, then there will be a supply surplus.


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## Iekika. (2 mo ago)

Malc said:


> It does amaze me though that the government could have saved a lot of money by not giving £400 to everyone but only those who really need it, as judging by the number of houses in this area that are already running outside Christmas lights all over their houses that rival Blackpool illuminations, they obviously didn't need the money....


Horses for courses really. We spend it on reptiles/aquariums, others will spend it on some christmas cheer.

StuG - I'm seeing the rise like everybody else. I would say though that, it's not causing me to scale down on reptiles, but it is making me extremely careful about future purchases that I already had in mind, and I likely won't make those certain purchases now. I'm definitely having to 'focus' on particular directions much more. This is not so much because of the current cost of energy, but the uncertainly of the future costs. When it comes to aquariums though, I have had to scale right down and focus, which is a shame. This is something I'm seeing a lot - aquarists giving up their hobby totally, or else scaling down to a huge degree.

I personally won't directly raise my prices of anything I breed as a result. It will be different for people who's breeding brings a source (or THE source) of their annual income of course, but for hobbyists who breed because of the enjoyment they gain from it, many of us lose money in the process anyway as we all know. But will the _general_ prices of reptiles rise, which fuels the market? Undoubtedly!

I'm probably in a different camp to some though, in that whilst I think potential buyers researching more is obviously a good thing (I have had some absolute belter enquiries in the past), a fool and his money is easily parted - that is to say, the better off will continue to purchase animals, there will still be impulse buys (just have a look at the state of gumtree), but you will find the less well off keepers who are perfectly adept at keeping reptiles and enjoying the hobby will not be able to purchase as easily, which is an absolute shame. Reptile keeping should be taken seriously, but it should not be for the elite.

I think the energy prices will have a very damaging impact on our hobby, if I'm honest. Less people will be able to afford to keep and buy reptiles, breeders will find it harder to move on animals, even more so if prices inflate, and they will likely have to think extremely carefully about whether to breed X, Y or Z due to this. Could it hinder advancement of the hobby, at least during the recession? Time will tell.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Malc said:


> Stu, I've already documented my circumstances...switch all but the Boa over to heat mats, and negotiated a small increase on the DD's but will be in debt come next April when the review is done.
> 
> Whilst the anticipated surge of collections being down sized or completely sold off may not have been as predicted, there does seem to be a lot more listings in the RFUK's classified section, and often as first time posters
> 
> ...


Life isn't fair though. They might think ...'why should the guy along the road get it for keeping x number of vivarium heating and lighting sources running 12 hours or so per day?' How can it be judged for those that really need it? The last payment for those in council tax bands A - D were fortunate, but what about those E upwards?


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I am just absorbing the additional cost.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

al stotton said:


> Short answer Stu , I'm sucking it up ,keeping animals isn't cheap.


This.

Ours has increased by 50%. We are in the process of (much needed) rearranging the animal rooms to organise by heat requirements so the vivs are not competing against each other.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I disagree that it will increase prices, it is already showing to decrease prices this is evident everywhere at present.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

I've been lucky as I was already on a fixed rate until 2024, so no rises (Scottish power). I've also started paying each bill monthly - so far that has paid off, but the next few months will be telling. I did this because of the crazy monthly DD they started asking for. Currently only running 2 vivariums and only the Royal 24hrs a day.

For me, running specialist equipment needed for my disabilities and health issues is the biggie, plus the need to run a tumble dryer when washing isn't getting dry. 

Higher food and diesel is a bigger problem, especially with 100 mile round trips to hospital and multiple food/environmental allergies.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Iekika. said:


> Horses for courses really. We spend it on reptiles/aquariums, others will spend it on some christmas cheer.


And then there are those who are not fortunate enough to have that choice and struggle to make ends meet and feed their family and pets.

The current cost of living crisis could either cause breeders to breed less, or only breed reptiles that are always in high demand. Back in the late 90's the bottom fell out of the cornsnake market, with people giving them away at the few remaining fairs that existed at the time. 

It's not just the cost of running the equipment, feeding the collection is costing more. I typically order enough rats and quail to cover a three / four month period. The previous order came to just shy of £100 plus delivery. The order placed this weekend was £130 exl delivery. Give the current and predicted rise in cost of living things are going to get tougher before they get better and I doubt things will ever get back to pre-covid / Ukraine levels.


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

My bills have increased substantially even with only a handful of reptiles: and despite a couple of them now living in an unheated part of the house in a box of hay brumating. The increase is enough that it has guaranteed I won't be rescuing or buying any more animals, however much I might want to, and that is a bit of a shame although it does mean I value what I do have that little bit more.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Life isn't fair though. They might think ...'why should the guy along the road get it for keeping x number of vivarium heating and lighting sources running 12 hours or so per day?' How can it be judged for those that really need it?
> 
> The last payment for those in council tax bands A - D were fortunate, but what about those E upwards?


How does that reconcile Malc’s comment? 

We can measure fairness in various ways…… and may be biased by our points of reference.

Indeed, life isn’t fair. Do we want it to be, and if so, how?

Malc’s point was that Christmas lights are not essential (life sustaining), but surely heating for humans and animals most definitely is life sustaining (essential).
If you want to make it an argument that keeping reptiles is a privilege choice, I don’t think this will convert or win over, or increase empathy or gratitude for what one has.

Perhaps better just to console and commiserate than allude to views of hypocrisy?

It is after all a very emotive subject.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Part of the issue here is that there is a fine line between discussing the impact high energy costs are affecting those that keep reptiles and amphibians and the politics behind it. I'm sure there are forum rules that may forbid that line being crossed. 

Ironically I was only talking to the guy who has turned his house into Blackpool illuminations a few weeks before and he was griping about the cost of fuel, shopping and electricity, and rather than reduce the amount of lights or give them a miss this year he adds more than last year. Now I have no idea if he is that comfortably off that running several hundreds of watts of lighting all through the night doesn't matter, or it does and he's sticking two fingers up at whatever establishment he may consider to blame for this situation. 

There will always be policies that offend or upset some people... A lot of those who appreciate and need the handouts from the government can't understand why the government would give £400 to a millionaire who would have no need for it, when previous packages were means tested, targeted at those on low incomes and/ or specific benefits, or had thresholds such as the council tax bands (again, just because someone is sitting an a band E house doesn't mean they have a high income and thus don't need the £150 - but hey hoe the government thought otherwise ) - But then again the council tax bands have always been a bone of contention since being introduced, but that's a subject altogether.

Regarding the point in the post above, regarding the provisions of heat for our reptiles as been essential. For some it is, and if we were to take that away then would that not equate to cruelty or make the keeper irresponsible for not providing the correct essentials. As I have documented, I've switched to mats, and for the most the Royals are still OK, even being active at night, but then spend all day sitting on the mats, with one or two moving off the heat in the day, but no where as frequent as they did when the ceramics were running. It's the best compromise I can make under my circumstances, but I still beat myself up over these changes as it's not ideal.

Not going into details, but I have a low fixed income. I've set my central heating to come on for half an hour in the morning around 5am so the edge has just been taken off for when my daughter get up, and then an hour from 6pm, with the stat set to 19c. If it gets cold after that I put an extra layer on, or sit with a blanket over my legs, or boil the kettle for a cuppa and hot water bottle should it get that cold. 

[/rant  ]


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Then there is of course the elephant in the room... how this cost of living crisis is affecting the industry itself. The food breeders, the pet shops with their overheads, the rescues and shelters, the wholesalers... they are from the sound of it having an extremely rough and worrying time of it.

I'm fortunate in that as of now I can swallow the price hike without being affected too much. And yes I understand that makes me privileged. But I am well aware an 'I'm OK Jack' mindset can only last while the industry is afloat... remove the companies providing the food and equipment for our animals and what happens then?



LiasisUK said:


> I disagree that it will increase prices, it is already showing to decrease prices this is evident everywhere at present.


Sadly I concur, reptile rescues are full of animals being given up for rehoming, many are past capacity.
People are not buying more animals, they are selling up due to the cost of living.


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## StuG (Nov 4, 2009)

Thrasops said:


> Then there is of course the elephant in the room... how this cost of living crisis is affecting the industry itself. The food breeders, the pet shops with their overheads, the rescues and shelters, the wholesalers... they are from the sound of it having an extremely rough and worrying time of it.
> 
> I'm fortunate in that as of now I can swallow the price hike without being affected too much. And yes I understand that makes me privileged. But I am well aware an 'I'm OK Jack' mindset can only last while the industry is afloat... remove the companies providing the food and equipment for our animals and what happens then?


We’ve only got one local pet shop and at present they appear to be thriving. 
The owner said that sales are as good as ever and last Saturday I popped in twice throughout the day and both times it was packed.
Will be an interesting couple of years, fingers crossed we get a bit of respite at some point


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

StuG said:


> We’ve only got one local pet shop and at present they appear to be thriving.
> The owner said that sales are as good as ever and last Saturday I popped in twice throughout the day and both times it was packed.
> Will be an interesting couple of years, fingers crossed we get a bit of respite at some point


I've been talking to a couple of the bigger reptile shops lately and there seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes that I was unaware of. Sounded rather worrying to be honest.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Thrasops said:


> I've been talking to a couple of the bigger reptile shops lately and there seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes that I was unaware of. Sounded rather worrying to be honest.


I have heard the same from the majority of shop owners I know, times are hard, money is not freely available, people are not buying much outside the norm, luxuries like reptiles/fish are not selling well. Other pets seem to sell OK, small mammals that have no associated 'energy burden'; but still nothing like what they used to.

At least 6 reptile shops have closed in the last 6 months, mostly due to lack of sales.

Wholesalers are sat on livestock, as no one is buying them.

It's not good.

EDIT: I liked you comment out of agreement Francis, not out of actually liking the context haha


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Francis, you raise a really good point. As posted elsewhere on the forum, I've just placed a food order and it was up £30 on previous orders. I was comparing prices from alternative suppliers to TSM who I've used for years (decades even), and some the prices were silly. A bag of 5 large weaner rats from Kiezebrink worked out at £2.00 each, dropping to £1.84 each if purchased as a bag of 25. Jumbo rats from the same supplier £4.25 each. I stuck with TSM in the end (order being delivered today) as they were more competitive (£1.20 for large weaners and £2.80 for jumbo rats), but Peter was still awaiting deliveries from a couple of suppliers, so stock was limited. Granted there is probably a large difference between both companies, and Kiezebrink could well have higher staffing levels, higher outgoings etc that warrant these differences, but for customers also feeling the squeeze we are more likely to shop on price, and spending £42.50 on ten jumbo rats when the same can be had for £28 is just out of the question. I would therefore speculate that Kiezebrink are sat on a fair amount of stock, unless of course they have larger contracted customers how have little choice in accepting the inflated prices?


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## markiemark1914 (Nov 11, 2021)

I am unsure if I should participate in this discussion
.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

markiemark1914 said:


> I am unsure if I should participate in this discussion
> .


Ok then


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

markiemark1914 said:


> I am unsure if I should participate in this discussion
> .


Unsure in what way ??


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