# Looking for Guidance: New Yemen Viv - Concerned.



## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Hello All,

I'm hoping you guys/gals will be able to help me with this as I'm a little concerned I've cocked things up abit to be honest.

I intended to go out and buy a Vivarium and all required components and assemble myself - as I was in the shop the owner (I think it was) told me they had a viv set up with (apparently) everything I needed...

I had researched pretty heavily before going ahead and purchasing these lovelies but I hadn't taken into consideration buying a full set up (I was set on getting the components myself and doing it that way) and if I'm honest I'm not 100% confident now.

I got home and set up the viv, powering it up and aligning things and everything seemed ok. I popped the Yemen's in and they seemed happy. I fed them shortly after and 1 of them snapped up the locust fine the other just didn't eat.

Next day I noticed the Yemen that didn't take any food looks just not right...Seems depressed, darker complexion, skinnier than the other, still didn't eat but is moving around quite abit (climbing, walking along the substrate). Then as I was leaving for work yesterday he jumped off the climbing branch and ran (pretty fast) around at the bottom of the tank then hid behind the feeding dish. I was concerned by this as he didn't leave the dish before I left, but when I arrived home he was sat on the branch.

Day 3 now and still hasn't eaten that I can see - I cannot be 100% sure but I feel he hasn't. He has also taken to moving behind the dish again a few times throughout the day...Whilst down there he has also turned an extremely dark brown colour (as the substrate) until he moves around. then his more green complexion returns...The other one has eaten, is pretty lively, more colour etc.

I am not really sure if the Viv is correct for them now - I have read about ventilation (Flexariums etc.)...This is a wooden viv with glass doors, but it has 4 round vents at the back which I thought would be sufficient. I chose not to go for a Flex as my flat isn't particularly warm.

The large bulb the shop supplied to me gives off plenty of heat and both of them appear to bask quite happily on the branch below this.

I have a heat mat (inside the tank, under the substrate) that I have left on permenantly - I enquired about needing a thermostat (and was set on getting one) but the shop said that it wasn't really necessary ?!

They have moved down to the substrate at night, laying/sitting on the area where the mat is. The thermometer seems to indicate things are ok.

I've taken a few pictures that I attach below, I'd appreciate if anyone could take a gander and tell me if I'm doing anything badly wrong here - I am aware of the like of plant life at the moment (I am on my way out shortly to pick up a whole host of appropriate plants).

The Viv:










Bulb and basking spot:










Bulb and Vent:










Strip light and bulb:










This is the Cham that appears (to me) to be unwell:



















The other Cham:



















This shot is of the poorly Cham perched on the dish - I've noticed a few times he has stood up on his hind legs waving his arms a little then goes behind the dish - This was during that sort of action:










During the nights they have either just layed on the branch or been laying on the substrate.

I have been misting the tank twice a day and monitoring the heat actively. I've put a timer on the lights for 12 hour sessions a day.

I notice that the more active one seems to come to the glass alot and wave - I've read that this can be sometimes because they don't like the Viv  I hope that isn't the case. When ever I open the viv the same Cham comes toward me and happily climbs out onto my hand...I realise some Cham's can be friendly like this, but unsure if its a sign of bad things!

The other cham shys away from me, literally going in the opposite direction - I've placed a locust directly infront of him and he nearly always moves away from it as if scared.

These are a male and a female - I realise that some maintain the view of not keeping Cham's together - At the moment they seem to have no problems with each other and sit/lay next to each other / pass each other by with no problems. I am prepared to split them up if required though.

Any guidance with this would be appreciated.

Tom


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

If that was my viv I'd kit it out with all sorts of branches, plants and bendy vines as it does look very bare at the moment. But you said you're getting some foliage so I don't suppose my comment's helpful :blush: 


I'd guard that bulb too if your plants are going to be that high up just to be safe.


I'd also get a reptile water dripper as that way there's a constant supply of moving water. 


I don't really know alot about lizards though I'm afraid so that's all I could suggest and I'm sorry if I've covered anything that you've already answered, I have a memory like a sieve. :lol2:


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks boaboy...

Yes, I'll be getting lots of bits to fill up the tank today.

The bulb guard is on my list, I thought as they are small at the moment it wouldn't be a problem as they cannot reach - I plan to keep the plant/decor a fair bit away from that as well.


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

I've never kept anything that needs UV but I was wondering whether the rays will reach the chams when they're at the bottom of the viv, I think I'd put some vines etc closer to the UV. I might be way off though but I have an excuse :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

here we go... this is from a decent care sheet that i found. i agree with most all of it.

*veiled chameleon-101*


Care sheet for owning Veiled chameleons. 
Veiled Chameleons are often considered to be one of the most hardy and easy species of chameleon to own. This is not to say that a veiled chameleon is an easy pet. All chameleons require a large investment of time in feeding, watering, cleaning, and general care. Chameleons are not a good pet for children. They do not react well to handling, they easily get seriously injured and quickly die if improperly cared for. 
Veiled chameleons come from Yemen/Saudi Arabia. Veiled chameleons are arboreal (they like to be in trees/shrubs) They are also diurnal (they are active during the day.)
Sexing Veiled chameleons is very easy all male veiled chameleons from birth on have a tarsal spur located just behind their rear feet. 
Housing: Almost all chameleons with the exception of a few species of Brookesia and a few Rhampholean require screen cages. A screen cage is required because all chameleons except those genus previously listed cannot stand to see their reflection in glass. NO MORE THAN ONE VEILED SHOULD BE HOUSED IN A CAGE. Additionally chameleons need a good airflow. One should not think this means to point a fan at the cage. The only solution is a screen cage. Reptariums are good screen cages, except the mesh on top does not allow in enough light from uvb lights. If you get a reptarium you need to get a double fluorescent fixture, and get two fluorescent bulbs. The cage for an adult veiled should be at least 2 feet wide, 2 feet long and 3 feet high or at least 12 cubic feet. So the cage does not have to be 2x2x3. But the cage has to offer at least 30 inches of height for the chameleon to climb about. 
Feeding: You should feed veiled chameleons crickets, mealworms, superworms, waxworms, silkworms, and butterworms. A diet with variety is one of the keys to a healthy chameleon. Crickets should be the base of the diet. Crickets should be gut loaded before feeding them to the chameleon. A feeder insect is only as nutritious as what it eats. An unhealthy starved cricket is worthless nutritionally because basically it is nothing more than chitin. Also try to feed chameleons crickets no larger than the width of the chameleons mouth. Mealworms are an additional feeder insect and store easily in the refrigerator. Superworms are a good feeder insect but should not be fed to chameleons until they are about half grown unless you can get small superworms. Waxworms are kind of like junk food, they are high in sugar and fat and basically serve as a snack food and are not to be fed regularly. BUTTERWORMS are the king of calcium content they have more calcium than all other feeder insects by about 3 times and therefore I recommend using butterworms. Silkworms are a great source of food when available. 
VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS: reptile vitamin supplements are not all the same and therefore some are better than others for chameleons. I use repcal herptivite multivitamins for vitamins (the blue container) I also use sticky tongue farms miner-all indoor to provide minerals and vitimin d. I have found the combination works well. repcal uses beta carotine rather than vitamin A which avoids vit a overdosing and miner all is an excellent source of calcium minerals and vitamin d.
If you cannot find miner-all indoors just use repcal multivitamin and repcal calcium with vitamin d3 (the pinkish red container. Dust feeder insects every other feeding according to directions. 
Veileds will eat some plant matter so occasionally offer some chopped up collard greens, carrots, and oranges all chopped up and see if he will dig in. vegetation may be eaten but it is not what you should exclusivley feed a veiled they require insects predominatly.
Lighting and Heating: Improper heating and lighting is one of the number one killers of captive chameleons. 
Veiled chameleons like all other chameleons require full spectrum lighting. The full spectrum uva/uvb lighting is needed to prevent mbd or metabolic bone disease. Improper lighting will slowly and painfully kill a chameleon by preventing proper calcium absorbsion leading to weak and brittle bones and eventual crippling and death. So what is required is a basking lamp to provide heat and uva light. The basking lamp should provide a basking area in the cage around 90 to 100 degrees. The rest of the cage should be in the 70 to 80 range to allow for the chameleon to walk around to cooler areas if overheated. The basking lamp wattage should be about 100 watts for a screen cage that is 2 feet by 2 feet by 3 feet, but the wattage may need to be higher or lower depending on room temperature and the cages ability to build up or release heat. Place basking bulb in a basking light clamp lamb and place above cage about two to three inches. This spacing is needed because chameleons will get too close to the light and get thermal burns, which will kill them. Additionally a fluorescent uvb light is mandatory. You can also use high intensity discharge lamps. For cages that are larger a powersun light works well, but the cage should be very very large. A UVB fluorescent reptile light is what will prevent mbd deaths.The more fluorescent uvb light the better. A chameleon should be able to bask within 6 inches of the fluorescent bulb so you've got to put some vines or plants that will let them get near the light. So fluorescent tubes should run the entire length of the cage. Preferably at least two fluorescent tubes. These can be expensive because you have to buy special fluorescent reptile lights. A regular fluorescent or plant fluorescent light is worthless. You must either purchase a ZOOmed 5.0 fluorescent light or a esu 7.0 desert uvb light. Zoomed has better studies that i know of and most vets recomend it. The light usually runs around 30 dollars and buy as big as possible because they cost the same no matter what size. I keep a veiled in a 2.5'x2.5'x3' cage and I have 3 twenty four inch fluorescent tubes over the cage. I have found the cheapest and most effective fluorescent fixtures to be available at home improvment stores. Buy a double fluorescent fixture and put it right on top of the cage. Remember the biggest fluorescent tubes you can fit above the cage is advised. USE A TIMER TO CONTROL THE LIGHTING. Twelve or fourteen hours of lights on is recomended. Irregular lighting will result in a hunger strike.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Humidity: Veiled chameleons normally like 30 to 50 percent humidity. Humidity can be provided by putting a shallow dish of water about three quarter of an inch deep with a air line with a bubble stone in the water to bubble the water. Additionally this may occasionally encourage some chameleons to drink from the water bowl, but the majority of chameleons will not.
Watering: Veiled chameleons like all other chameleons will almost never drink from a bowl of water or standing water in anything. Many will drink from waterfall dishes but these often become contaminated with germs and such but still usually work well if cleaned out every couple of days. Also careful with waterfalls and any water basins to make sure the chameleon does not drown. I advise placing branches or vines through the water to allow a climbing route out. Chameleons drown very easily even in very shallow water. 
To provide drinking water mist with warm water the chameleon and the cage for 3 to 5 minutes in the morning and at night. Additionally place a cup with a pinhole in the bottom of it on top of the cage and fill with water water should drip onto leaves of a plant in the cage for the chameleon to drink. 
Plants: You must get live non toxic plants for the cage.
Providing water to a chameleon can be one of the biggest problems in captive care. Veiled chameleons drink water that collects on leaves and such in the wild, they do not drink from pools of water or from a water dish. It just will not happen. You must use a dripper to drip water onto a plant in the cage that the chameleon can lick the water from. The water should drip down the plant and be collected in a drip basin below the plant for removal. A simple way to remove the water from a drip basin is the use of a turkey baster. A pothos is a good plant for this due to the leaf size. An additional method is to spray the cage plants with a mister or spray bottle. There are automated misters available on many websites and they may work as well. It is a mistake to assume that a veiled chameleon can surive on small amounts of water. Veiled chameleons need to drink water daily or else dehydration will occur. 
Veiled chameleons normally like around 30 to 50 percent humidity and this can easily be accomplished by placing a water bowl with bubble stone in it connected to an air pump. You could use a waterfall instead, but you must clean it out weekly because they are prone to becoming very dirty, also some models I have found may have leaking problems. 
The choice of plants to put into a chameleons cage must be done wisely. Not just any plant will work. Several imortant factors must be considered. First does the species of chameleon you own or plan to own eat any vegetation. For example sometimes Panther chameleons will eat some flowers or some leaves, even though most literature on panther chameleons tends not to mention that some will eat vegetation. Also Veiled chameleons will eat just about any plant you put in front of them. Aside from the species that eat vegetation I have seen on several occasions accidental ingestion of plant matter. While watching one of my Jackson's eat I saw the lizard shoot at a silkworm grab it but the silkworm did not let go of the leaf and the leaf the silkworm was on came with the silkworm into the lizards mouth and he chomped down on it. So only non toxic plants should be used with chameleons. Also the plants should provide a good drip water area. Most chameleons like to lick water off of leaves so the plants you choose should reflect this. Another important consideration is can the chameleon move about the plant. Will the plant hold up the lizards weight or will it fall over or break. The plant you choose should be sturdy. Also can the plant handle whatever temperature the cage is at and can it handle lots of watering from drippers if that is what you use. Captive chameleons require live plants for their enclosures. Plants provide areas to climb, clean the air, provide hiding places, and are used to drink water from the leaves. Additionally the plants help reduce stress on the chameleon by providing it with a closer to realistic environment. Also overall it makes the cage much more pleasing to the eye. 

Here are a few that I like to use. Dwarf Bannana Tree, Thornless citrus trees, hibiscus, ginger, pothos, and brocolli in my veileds cages. Plants will grow too large for the cage sometimes, but all you have to do is selectivly trim them to fit the cage. You can get into Bonsaii with your plants if you want to. Despite what most people think Bonsaii is not just for trees it can be done with any plant. 
For using ginger I normally go to the grocery store and buy fresh ginger root then plant 2 to 3 inches deep in one of the plants already in the cage. In about a two weeks the plant should start to grow. POTHOS-pothos although technically non toxic they do contain noticable levels of oxalate crystals. These crystals cause pain when eaten and it is debatable if they should be used with omnivourous species. Many breeders use pothos with no problem, I use it and have no problem. HIBISCUS- I advise using large hibiscus plants, they are nutritous if eaten and are a great plant overall.
Make sure the plant is pesticide free. Ask the nursery if they use pesticides. Do not take chances even miniscule pesticide ingestion will result in death. Wash the new plants in the shower with a soapy washrag thoroughly. I advise washing because it gets off pesticide and also small insects and their eggs. 

I quick note on using ficus trees. Ficus trees are non toxic and readily available. The only problem is that the leaves and stems of the plant have a large amount of milky sap in them. I once had a chameleon that got some sap in his eye from a ficus tree and it resulted in eye problems and helped lead to an infection, so I have sworn off from ever using ficus again. Also the sap and the leaves irratate my skin and give some people a rash. 

Abelia 
African Daisy 
Sweet Alysum 
Chamomile 
Arbutus 
Asperagus Fern 
Aster
Baby's Tears 
Bird's Nest Fern
Boston Fern
Bottle Bush 
Bouganville
Bridal Veil 
Bromeliads
Camellia
Coleus-this plant is midly toxic, it is ok for most chameleons but if you have one that likes to eat plants like a Veiled do not use this plant. 
Corn Plant
Corn flower-also known as bachelors buttons
Croton
Draceana
Emerald Ripple
Eugenia
Fuschia
Geranium
Hen and CHicks Succulent
Hibiscus-my favorite choice
Hoya
Iceplant
Japanese aralia
Japanese aralia
Impatients
Jade Plant
Jasmine
Lavender
Marigold
Monkey Plant
Mother of Pearl
Natal Plum
Painted nettle
Palms
Pampas Grass
Parlor Palm
Peperomia
Phoenix
Piggyback Plant
Pilea
Pink Polka Dot Plant
Ponytail Plant
Purple Velvet
Spider Plant
Staghorn Fern
Swedish Ivy
Tree Mallow
Umbrella Plant
Velvet Plant
Wandering Jew
Warneckii
Wax Plant
ZEbra plant
zinnias 


Simply put if a plant is not on this list or one of the plants previously discussed then assume it is toxic until you can prove otherwise. For example even the common tomato is toxic. The fruit are not toxic but the plants leaves and stem are toxic. So in choosing plants be thorough it might just save your chameleons life.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

was that any help at all?..


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Hey HABU,

Thank you - I was looking for more personal observations rather than care sheets though (I have read about 20 of them prior to getting my Chams) as I know most of them differ from each other etc. I also studied your Plant list from a previous post (which was very helpful!)

I do appreciate the reply though.

T.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Atom said:


> Hey HABU,
> 
> Thank you - I was looking for more personal observations rather than care sheets though (I have read about 20 of them prior to getting my Chams) I also studied your Plant list from a previous post (which was very helpful!)
> 
> T.


 
i'd lose the viv and get a big screen cage right off the bat. i always used cheap reflector type screw in lamps from the hardware store and a regular incandecent light bulb and a screw in compact U.V. light just sitting on top of the cage. lots of branches and live plants. no substrate. i used the cheap plastic cup method of watering them... i'd mist mine down heavily in the early morning when i turned on the lights and no more. my crickets were always gut loaded with quality fish flakes and some greens. i always toon my lightweight cages outside during the warm summer months for real sunshine and i'd dust my crickets every two or three feedings. also i would go collect wild bugs for my chameleons and at night catch various moths by a big porch light that i had. i had no problems. warm them up during the day and cool 'em down at night.

let them be chameleons.... where's the breeze?


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## paulskin (Jul 5, 2007)

the ventilation will end up a problem if u leave it like that,at least cut some more vent holes or make a custom mesh front.is that a mecury vapour bulb?that should be fine but dont let your chams be able to touch it!


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks HABU & paulskin.

I had considered cutting out a chunk on each side of the viv and covering it over with some netting...I think I'll do that today.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Atom said:


> Thanks HABU & paulskin.
> 
> I had considered cutting out a chunk on each side of the viv and covering it over with some netting...I think I'll do that today.


 
remember to make it cricket-escape proof....:whistling2:


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm a little concerend about the shop that sold you all that! I have only had mine a month or so so am no expert but from what I've read these are my observations.

Yemen Chams can only be kept together at a very young age and then need to be seperated or one will start to suffer. 
Chameleons are climbers so its important to have more vertical climbing space than horizontal ground space. They feel safest if they can sit at the very top and look down onto a room rather than up into it. I have never seen mine on the floor of the enclosure at all, and because of that you dont need substrate, this can also cause problems if they ingest it.
You also need to either remake that enclosure to have screen mesh on each side or buy a new one. I can recommend a place for mesh screens if you decide to do this. Ventilation is very important for them. They need to be able to get a lot closer to the UVB bulb in order to absorb what they need from it, and also possibly the heat bulb depending on what temps you have underneath it.

This is my enclosure if it helps.

Chameleon enclosure - ukexpert

For eating, I place all the food in a cup, he doesnt like to eat if he sees me walking about, doesnt like to be disturbed. If you have them in a cup with a lid and a small hole in the top you can also monitor how much is being eaten.


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

Also is the strip light a UVB bulb or normal? It needs to be UVB else it is doing nothing. If its all done right you wont need a heat matt, they just need a basking temperature during the day and then nothing at night as long as it doesnt get too cold, having a cool down at night gets them into a sleep routine.


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## paulskin (Jul 5, 2007)

SimonB said:


> I'm a little concerend about the shop that sold you all that! I have only had mine a month or so so am no expert but from what I've read these are my observations.
> 
> Yemen Chams can only be kept together at a very young age and then need to be seperated or one will start to suffer.
> Chameleons are climbers so its important to have more vertical climbing space than horizontal ground space. They feel safest if they can sit at the very top and look down onto a room rather than up into it. I have never seen mine on the floor of the enclosure at all, and because of that you dont need substrate, this can also cause problems if they ingest it.
> ...



yeah....bloody hell i dint even think about them being together!they wont live happily in that size viv forever.by the way simon,mesh screens,where lol


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

It is a 3ft high viv, similiar to yours from what I can make out.

The view on Yemen's being kept together, well, I've read numerous threads on here and other forums and some say it is fine others say its not...If there is a problem with them I'll seperate em.

I'm going to cut a long strip (probably 2ft in height and a considerable width) from either side of the viv and put some mesh over it. I'm more than likely going to make some strips in the top of the viv as well - Do you think that will be sufficient?

I purchased some mealworms earlier and am very happy to say that the poorly Cham accepted it - I hope that is, in some form, a good sign!


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

paulskin said:


> yeah....bloody hell i dint even think about them being together!they wont live happily in that size viv forever.by the way simon,mesh screens,where lol


About lightweight aluminium framed cages with clear view black aluminium screen Thats the guy I got mine from. Really good stuff.


I think you need to make as much of as many of the walls mesh as possible. What you have said should be good though. Its good that they are both eating, are you gutloading the food?
You need be prepared to get another enclosure or pass one of them on as soon as either shows any signs of stress from the other. The only times I've read you can successfully keep two veileds togehter is in a really large enclosure where they can both establish their own terratories.

Is the strip light a UVB bulb or normal? 

Have you got more stuff in it now for them to climb on?


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## paulskin (Jul 5, 2007)

yeah thats bout size of my cham viv atm,but after starting off with full wood/glass viv,then cutting extra vent holes,then making a custom mesh front ive decided to get a flexi in the coming months because the wood is getting water damage(i did seal it with bathroom silcone first)so if your wood is unprotected then be ready for water damage in less than 12 months.but yeah the main issue id say is ventilation and your ideas do sound sufficient enough to me.


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

The round bulb is a UV 10% Bulb according the shop that supplied it. The strip light is just a standard light.


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## paulskin (Jul 5, 2007)

yeah the pic u have looks like a mecury vapour bulb,what is the box it came in?


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

It is called a Hobby UV Ultra Lux Spotlight 125 Watt - There is a ballast attached to it.


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

From the pictures.
You defernetly need to add more decor, plants, live or fake. Just they need there security. I notice theres only one branch, this is extremely unadaquite.
Flexariums are much better, especially in terms of ventilation too. Those 4 ventilation holes are not suitable for chameleons. They are also probably to hot with such a powerful bulb.

Theres alot of things you need to change, and no offence, but i dont think you've done enough research. But the main conern is to see these guys thrive.

So i suggest, buying a flexarium imediatly, get a lamp holder to rest on top. And get plenty of branches, twigs and LOTS of fake plants or real plants. Ficus or Pothos is good for this.

Ill add a photo of my set-up in two minutes.


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Meltos: As stated in my first post I am adding plants today - I've purchased numerous suitable species to add to the viv.

No offense taken - I'm happy for the advice!


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

Thanks for being grown up about it :]

And Whats happening with the vivarium? I would highly recommend scrapping it. Or if wanting to keep it, put extra ventilation in. For example, a screen top, screen front (instead of glass) or big ventilation plates on the sides, like used in bedrooms.

To give you some ideas.


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Did you read any of my posts regarding cutting ventilation holes in the viv? 

I will be adding ventilation points this evening.

Nice set up!

I feel a Flex is unsuitable for my flat due to the sharp drop in temperatures I experience which is why I was hesitant to purchase one in the first place.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Meltos said:


> Thanks for being grown up about it :]
> 
> And Whats happening with the vivarium? I would highly recommend scrapping it. Or if wanting to keep it, put extra ventilation in. For example, a screen top, screen front (instead of glass) or big ventilation plates on the sides, like used in bedrooms.
> 
> To give you some ideas.


 
that's pretty much it!:no1: although i always had double reflectors.


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

Atom said:


> Did you read any of my posts regarding cutting ventilation holes in the viv?
> 
> I will be adding ventilation points this evening.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.
I suppose theres different ways of doingt hings, and how people will get around it.
I can understand the flexarium not being suitable due to temperture drop, but how cold does it actually get at night? they can with stand quite cold conditions. Also, a heat mat could be used at night as a background temperture.
If your going to cut ventilation holes, i would do what u suggest, on both side, left and right. And i would also scrap the top. releasing the hot air. and have a current from the sides going up, as yes the ventilation will be much better, but it will still be pretty "stuffy".


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

Would be good to see latest photos when youve done the changes.

I'm not sure about your lighting still though. The normal arrangement is a standard light bulb which provides the heat and a UVB tube along side that as they are most effective at providing UVB. Tubes don't provide much heat so I'm not too sure what the one in yours is actually doing. It may be worth having a read and swapping it round so you have a good 5.0 UVB tube in there and a standard 60/100w incandescent light bulb in there to provide the heat.


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

SimonB said:


> Would be good to see latest photos when youve done the changes.
> 
> I'm not sure about your lighting still though. The normal arrangement is a standard light bulb which provides the heat and a UVB tube along side that as they are most effective at providing UVB. Tubes don't provide much heat so I'm not too sure what the one in yours is actually doing. It may be worth having a read and swapping it round so you have a good 5.0 UVB tube in there and a standard 60/100w incandescent light bulb in there to provide the heat.


I Agree. The mercuary bulbs you have are mainly used for large vivariums, for occupants such as monitors. The electricity bill will be much higher with that also, and of the top of my head, you can't use a thermostat with it. So a normal light bulb or even a spot bulb is necesarry. And of course a UVB strip as Simon mentioned.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi I must appologise before hand as I have only skipped through the posts quickly.If I was you I wouldn't have any substrate in the bottom at all just kitchen roll or newspaper.Chameleons do not spend much time on the floor at all.Yours are because there isn't anything for them to climb on.That one branch you have looks too thick for them to grip properly.They like to get their little feet around things to hold on well.So try and get some thin braches or such.


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

After a fairly long day reworking this, I'm pretty happy with the result (and the Cham's seem abit happier too!)

Some pics (not great quality!) - Excuse the mess around, my living room was like a workshop after I'd finished!

Overall Viv:










Front (Zoomed in abit):




























I cut out decent sized holes in the left and right sides, covered em up with some netting from the inside:



















Closeup of Cham's exploring!



















Need to get a guard for the bulb which I'll be doing shortly


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

Looks loads better, good work.

I'd still remove the substrate which can cause problems if they ingest it and sort out the lighting and you could be there.

Is it sat on the floor? You should generally try to have the enclosure on something so that it is higher in the room if that is possible


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

looks great now but i'd have the uvb running down the side of the viv.


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Cheers both!

Simon: I've spoken to a few friends who've kept reptiles over the years and they have said the bulb should be fine, 2 of them said it's actually really good to have said bulb type. I read around on it and a few Cham keepers also mentioned using this type of bulb so what problem is there with it?

linda: Regarding it's position - It is abit problematic I agree - It interfered with another plant I wanted in there and takes away quite abit of space...I may have a go shortly and see if I can change the positioning.


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

If others have said its fine then I wouldn't worry about it. I'm just saying that a lot of setups you have two types of lighting because both types do something different. One provides the UVB and one provides the heat. Bulbs dedicated to one job tend to be better at it. Where as you have the bulb which provides the uvb and heat so the tube fitting isn't actually doing anything apart from give off light. 

I'd just say that see how everything goes and if anything seems a miss maybe try going for a uvb tube and normal lightbulb instead of your existing setup. :cheers:


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## reptile.kid (Aug 27, 2007)

hi i keep chams and i knw quite abit about thm and the habitat thy live in, im nly gin 2 tel u 2 things 1 - your viv is miles too big for the size of your cham he wont be able to find his food 2 - your substrate is no good you need reptile carpet / reptile grass add me on msn i will tell you alot more thanks


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

It looks loads better !!!


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## reptile.kid (Aug 27, 2007)

looks loads better,I still fink the viv is too big and i jst noticed the size of the locust you feeding him (on 1 of the first piks) thy are well big for a baby cham i feed mine on size 1 (small) locust and mine is a bigger than your, i have my cham in an exo terra terrarium (30x30x45) i fink i have a spare 1 ill sell to you if your intersted m8 but i would scrap that viv and use a terrarium/flexarium,and also scrap the orchid bark substrate and put reptile grass/carpet or even kitchen paper or newspaper they dont need any substate they wont spend any time on the floor unless its ill add me on msn > [email protected] cheers


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

Fantastic. Good job on the ventilation. That will help greatly. As people have mentioned, the substrate CAN be a problem, i have soil down for mine. And the way i stop the risk of her picking any up, is feed her from a cricket station. I place a plastic tub in with crickets, and she will just eat from there. I never have free roaming crickets or locusts (the locusts wudnt stand a chance anyway!)

I'd get an other plant like the one you have in the middle, looks stronger enough to carry them, and its more proporstioned. I know i can't spell! lol.

Well done, Nice to see a member actually taking advice and getting on with it. Up most respect for that :]


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## Atom (Mar 8, 2008)

Cheers guys.

There is absolutely no chance of "scrapping" the viv  It cost a lot of time and money to get things going and looking right. If I could notice a considerable problem with using it I would change it but at this time I can't see that - I really like it - I don't feel it's causing a problem for them. The only thing I could see as being a little bit of a problem is them finding food - So far the feed I've added has a tendency to crawl upward toward them and they have been catching it - I like the idea though Meltos of having a designated feeding area (this would allow me to monitor their feeding more effectively)...So I think I will add that soon!

I must say they seem pretty happy! I'm still a little concerned regarding one of them though, skinnier than the other, not so colourful - He is much more active and doesn't seem to be stressed much but I can't be sure yet how often he is feeding.

I've been breeding/keeping crickets, locusts, mealworms and waxworms (last 2 not given so often, of course ) to feed em...All fed on gut loader, veggies and weatabix - keeping their diet balanced and varied - And dusting the feed off just before feeding time.

The other is happy in his tree (moves around but favours the tree on the left more) feeding regular, nice colours... caught him drinking off a leaf today for about 5 minutes - Was great too see!

I will change the substrate shortly - I'd like something that matches the Plant life more than just Newspaper though - I have to be careful as the heat meat is inside under the substrate (though is sealed quite well). The reptile carpet sounds good though reptile.kid.

Meltos: How does your cricket feeder work exactly? If I put, say, an empty plastic tub (like the ones crickets come in when you buy em) with a few crickets/locust in, they will just crawl out?


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

I think you really need to spererate them! 

My cricket feeder is a small tub that you get from supermarkets with pasta in or something (http://www.themanchesterstudio.co.uk/images/070310/lunch.jpg)

then just cut a hole in the middle of the lid about 5cm diameter, they can only get out if they are in the centre of the tub but very few seem to be able to. I wedge it inbetween vines half way up the enclosure


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## Triangulum (Apr 30, 2006)

I simply get a small plastic container (i use the small cricket keeper) and place it on the bottom, this is important, because if its the same level, the chameleon maybe confused and try get to the crickets through the plastic, very stressful.

So the point if it on the bottom is so she comes down onto it. It works a charm, and you can monitor how many shes eating etc.


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

Also what have you got a heat matt for?


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

They will be fine together until they are a little bigger at which point you will need to either split them up or get a much bigger viv. 3x2x2 is a minimum recommended size for 1 Yemen chameleon.

Substrate wise, you could consider using tiles to keep the cleanliness at a peak - this will make it easier for you to keep clean.

The cage should be fine provided you are offering a good cross air flow and sufficient ventilation to prevent a build up of stale, damp air which can lead to health problems including respitory infections.

Best of luck with them 

The heat mat also may be better served if you place it on the back wall of the viv and ensure you have a proper thermostat fitted to both it and your heat lamp


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## SimonB (Jan 31, 2008)

How are these guys doing?


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## Doommidget (May 15, 2008)

> If others have said its fine then I wouldn't worry about it. I'm just saying that a lot of setups you have two types of lighting because both types do something different. One provides the UVB and one provides the heat. Bulbs dedicated to one job tend to be better at it.


It is not necessarily true that individual types of bulb will do a job better on their own than if the functions were combined into one.

Many of the mercury vapour bulbs such as the Megaray from Reptile-UV or other company's equivalents provide both excellent heat and UVB production, and will in fact outlast a UVB producing strip light and separate basking lamp as they are generally good for up to 2 years rather than 1 for UVB production and I have never had a basking light last more than 6 months. In many cases they will also produce more UVB, and will lose less of their total UVB production over time. These are the kinds of bulb that many reptile vetenarians and zoos will use to nurse lizards with MBD back to health and to most accurately reproduce natural sunlight, when the real thing is not available. They also give off varying amounts of heat dependant upon the wattage of bulb that you purchase.

Although these kind of bulbs are more expensive, ranging from £35 to £60 from what I have seen, it will generally save money in the long run as they require replacing far less often, and they will be better for your lizard.

The one thing that you must do with them is ensure that they are far enough away from your lizard or other UVB requiring animal that they do not overdose on UVB or bake. For this reason in most cases they are situated around 12" to 21" above your lizard and are therefore not suitable for small vivariums.

I'd have thought that with a tall vivarium for chameleons and plenty of ventilation, Atom shouldn't have any problems with his setup if that is the kind of bulb he has.

:2thumb:


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