# To have a heat mat or to not have a heat mat? That is the question



## crazycatlady1987 (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi guys

I went into our local reptile store yesterday to get advice on correct heating and lighting for our beardie who we rescued 2 days ago. They sold me a heat mat for the nighttime to keep his viv at around low 70sF but I've been told by a couple of people that a heat mat is not necessary and he may burn himself on it.

I'm worried I've been fleeced by the shop and I can't take this mat back now cos we've put holes through it to pin it to the back of his viv :banghead: 

Help!!


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

I am not a beardie keeper but i thought they needed a night time drop so most people turn off vivs at night ??? You could pin it to the back of viv instead of floor and run it from a stat so that it only clicks on if the room reaches really cool temps ??


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## Hardy87 (Apr 7, 2011)

Yea heat Matts are a huge no no they can burn the underneath of your beardy as they can't feel the heat when it gets to warm and just stay there.
I honestly Wouldn't worry about night-time temps aslong as it's not absolutely freezing in your house there from the desert and deserts are cold at night time.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

Actually some people do use heat mats for a night time heat source, they will usually tape it to a side wall to stop burns to the Beardie, you will of course need a mat stat for it.

I don't use additional heat for any of my beardies as my house I warm enought, as said a night time drop is fine as long as it 70+


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

You've been had by that shop keeper  commonly happens. 

Beardies need a night time temperature drop otherwise they don't 'shut down' and rest properly.

You can try selling it on here... or saving it for another rep 

Heat mats are useless on the wall, they don't heat the air. You're just using up electricity and gaining nothing.

A drop below 70F is fine too, it can easily drop into minus numbers where they live and they manage to survive quite well.


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## tremerz97 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hardy87 said:


> Yea heat Matts are a huge no no they can burn the underneath of your beardy as they can't feel the heat when it gets to warm and just stay there.
> I honestly Wouldn't worry about night-time temps aslong as it's not absolutely freezing in your house there from the desert and deserts are cold at night time.


 not a HUGE no no. but you are best without it. if you are still going to use it put it on a stat.


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## Reptgal (Mar 3, 2013)

i have all my reptiles on heat mats, including my beardies. i disagree with the comment that they burn, heat rocks should never be used as they do burn the animal because they come into direct contact with it. but you can place your heat matt under an inch or so of substrate. it will not burn them like the rocks, they are also not stupid and do move when they get too hot. they do require a night time drop but i turn off their basking light and UVB light, and keep their mat on. if they cant keep their body temperature up, they will become tired and lose their appetite. remember they cant keep themselves warm like us :/


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## Imrahill (Mar 8, 2012)

You don't really need a heat mat and they are not the best for beardies but if you are using one on a thermostat then they are perfectly safe for you beardie ( 35-37deg is only slightly higher than the palm of your hand) it is very very rare for any lizard to burn itself on a heat mat if they are properly used with a thermostat ,as long as your night time temps don't get too low you should get away with no heat source.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Reptgal said:


> i have all my reptiles on heat mats, including my beardies. i disagree with the comment that they burn, heat rocks should never be used as they do burn the animal because they come into direct contact with it. but you can place your heat matt under an inch or so of substrate. it will not burn them like the rocks, they are also not stupid and do move when they get too hot. they do require a night time drop but i turn off their basking light and UVB light, and keep their mat on. if they cant keep their body temperature up, they will become tired and lose their appetite. remember they cant keep themselves warm like us :/


Problem with it being under an inch or so of substrate, is that most of the heat will be blocked anyway. That's more of a fire/burn risk. If it's loose substrate there's every chance that they will come into contact with it when digging around.

They sense heat from above, not so good at detecting heat from below, hence the risk of burns. Once they realise how hot it is, they may already have caused damage. 

Why do we allow them to thermoregulate if they prefer being warm? They only require short periods of being warm before going off and doing their thing in cooler temperatures. They have no need to be warm at night and actually it's detrimental to their health.



Heat mats are unnecessary for beardies.


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## diddlydee (May 17, 2012)

No, you havent been 'had' by the shop keeper. The fact of the matter is that some people just dont like heat mats. Thats their prerogative. Though having said that, most of the 'against arguments' are a bit daft. The one that does stand true is that of 'malfunctioning equipment'. Malfunctioning equipment can burn your reptile, this is true of all the equipment you use hence the most important piece of kit you can buy is a decent thermometer. I cant tell you whether you actually need an additional heat source at night, as I just dont know what the temps in your house where you keep the viv at 4-5.00am, and I doubt anyone else on here can either really! Invest an a max/min and place it overnight to get an idea of whether you need it. Beardies like to drop to 18-22C. Ive certain lived in property's as a younger man- single glazed with no insulation and prehistoric heating- that got much colder than that, so the viv required additional heating. Thankfully these days I'm a grown up (?) so have UPVC windows, a lagged loft and a decent thermostat on my wall too, so dont really need them. The shop did the right thing to sell you one. They didnt know what temps your house gets to. Provided the primary heat source (bulb/ceramic) is on a decent stat- I'd get a dimmer- than having a mat on the wall will be of no detriment to your animal. Hope this helps.


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## crazycatlady1987 (Mar 2, 2013)

If it helps, his viv temp this morning before his light went on was 14C (57F). He warmed up quite quick once the light went old but that's pretty cold. It's tacked onto the back wall, not underneath, as the reptile shop said the same, they detect heat from above. 14C sounds too low to me. My house is pretty chilly at night


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## Reptgal (Mar 3, 2013)

fair enough.... that shut me up.


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## diddlydee (May 17, 2012)

Yeah, 14C is pretty nippy for a beardie. Its not dire, but definitely the cooler(est) side you'd want to let a young beardie drop. I'd say your options are; move the viv to a warmer area of the house. If using a ceramic, install a day/night stat (which cycles the primary heater to a lower temp at night). Install a red bulb to take the night temps up a bit. Or, put in a bigger heat mat (I'm not convinced this would be too effective, as it wasnt massively cold where I was last night and a bigger mat would prob only get you a couple of degrees C's, whereas it sounds like you could do with 5C ish)


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## Tyzer (Nov 11, 2012)

diddlydee said:


> Yeah, 14C is pretty nippy for a beardie. Its not dire, but definitely the cooler(est) side you'd want to let a young beardie drop. I'd say your options are; move the viv to a warmer area of the house. If using a ceramic, install a day/night stat (which cycles the primary heater to a lower temp at night). Install a red bulb to take the night temps up a bit. Or, put in a bigger heat mat (I'm not convinced this would be too effective, as it wasnt massively cold where I was last night and a bigger mat would prob only get you a couple of degrees C's, whereas it sounds like you could do with 5C ish)


Not really needed they can hit minus temps but if you want the heat up put the bulb on a dimming stat so if it hits below a certain temp it turns slightly on


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## diddlydee (May 17, 2012)

Tyzer said:


> Not really needed they can hit minus temps but if you want the heat up put the bulb on a dimming stat so if it hits below a certain temp it turns slightly on


A beardie can hit minus temps?


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## Tyzer (Nov 11, 2012)

diddlydee said:


> A beardie can hit minus temps?


Been heard of wouldent want to test it tho my house hits 16 and mine are fine


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## GeorgiaAndJayFuzz (Jan 27, 2013)

crazycatlady1987 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I went into our local reptile store yesterday to get advice on correct heating and lighting for our beardie who we rescued 2 days ago. They sold me a heat mat for the nighttime to keep his viv at around low 70sF but I've been told by a couple of people that a heat mat is not necessary and he may burn himself on it.
> 
> ...


I have 2 beardies and they BOTH have heat mats. They are good for keeping a consistent temp, especially over night when the lights are off. Mine are selopated to the bottom of the viv (round the sides) on the hot side with a thick layer of substrate over the top. 
The way I look at it, is that they come from a hot country, a heat mat is not going to reach the temperature that a rock would out in Australia, and they bask on those all day. Although they cannot regulate their own body temperature, if they get too hot they will move!
I've have no problems with mine what so ever. And I think they are brilliant, especially as I live in a very old Victorian house and the temps do drop very low.
I also have a heat mat in my tegu enclosure. 
If you feel the temps drop a lot in your house, then use it. 
If you are worried, connect a thermostat and set it at a temperature that you feel comfortable with.


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## diddlydee (May 17, 2012)

Tyzer said:


> Been heard of wouldent want to test it tho my house hits 16 and mine are fine


Been heard of where??


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## Purple_D (Jan 18, 2009)

GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> I have 2 beardies and they BOTH have heat mats. They are good for keeping a consistent temp, especially over night when the lights are off. Mine are selopated to the bottom of the viv (round the sides) on the hot side with a thick layer of substrate over the top.
> The way I look at it, is that they come from a hot country, a heat mat is not going to reach the temperature that a rock would out in Australia, and they bask on those all day. Although they cannot regulate their own body temperature, if they get too hot they will move!
> I've have no problems with mine what so ever. And I think they are brilliant, especially as I live in a very old Victorian house and the temps do drop very low.
> I also have a heat mat in my tegu enclosure.
> ...


so much wrong with that post,but just 2 things,sticky tape of any kind is a big NO NO in vivs,and i take it you don't use stats on mats in the viv:bash::bash:


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

diddlydee said:


> A beardie can hit minus temps?


Australian Capital Territory Climate and Weather Averages

It changes depending on where you look, but I've seen temperatures lower than that.



GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> I have 2 beardies and they BOTH have heat mats. They are good for keeping a consistent temp, especially over night when the lights are off. Mine are selopated to the bottom of the viv (round the sides) on the hot side with a thick layer of substrate over the top.
> The way I look at it, is that they come from a hot country, a heat mat is not going to reach the temperature that a rock would out in Australia, and they bask on those all day. Although they cannot regulate their own body temperature, if they get too hot they will move!
> I've have no problems with mine what so ever. And I think they are brilliant, especially as I live in a very old Victorian house and the temps do drop very low.
> I also have a heat mat in my tegu enclosure.
> ...


How hot does it get over the heat mat (without the other heating on) and on top of the substrate out of curiosity?

It doesn't stay hot at night, everything gets very cold and beardies hide away.

You should always use a thermostat on a heat mat, regardless of placement and species. Mine easily get to 50C without a stat!


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## GeorgiaAndJayFuzz (Jan 27, 2013)

Purple_D said:


> so much wrong with that post,but just 2 things,sticky tape of any kind is a big NO NO in vivs,and i take it you don't use stats on mats in the viv:bash::bash:



Errrrrr and how?
How is sticky tape a big no no? If stuck CORRECTLY, there is no way of getting it up, it contains no harmful chemicals, and is not dangerous. What do u suggest? Glue?
And actually yes I do, but I know many people that don't, and have never had a problem. 
People are always going to have different opinions on what to use, and what not to use.


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## GeorgiaAndJayFuzz (Jan 27, 2013)

vgorst said:


> Australian Capital Territory Climate and Weather Averages
> 
> It changes depending on where you look, but I've seen temperatures lower than that.
> 
> ...



With the lights being on during the day, that makes the substrate hot, as would the sun. I find that overnight when the lights are off, the heat mat helps to keep the substrate warm. 
I do use a thermostat.
I was giving my opinion, everyone has a different. 

But rather than biting each others heads off, we are meant to be helping others.
This forum is starting to get reallllllll bitchy.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> With the lights being on during the day, that makes the substrate hot, as would the sun. I find that overnight when the lights are off, the heat mat helps to keep the substrate warm.
> I do use a thermostat.
> I was giving my opinion, everyone has a different.
> 
> ...


I apologise, I had no intention of sounding bitchy, tone doesn't really come across in text 

I was wondering how warm the substrate got during the night over the heat mat?

'*If you are worried*, connect a thermostat and set it at a temperature that you feel comfortable with' - thermostats are debatable when it comes to lights (and you're fairly experienced with the whole heating aspect), but not mats. They reach stupid temperatures if left unregulated and stats should always be recommended for these, not just if the OP was concerned.

The thing is, it gets so cold at night in Australia, beardies can easily handle our 'low' night temperatures, it's the owners that can't manage the worry.

: victory:


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## diddlydee (May 17, 2012)

vgorst said:


> Australian Capital Territory Climate and Weather Averages
> 
> It changes depending on where you look, but I've seen temperatures lower than that.


Inland Beardies dont really live in the area you have provided minimum night time temperatures for though. Their population is more central isnt it?


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## GeorgiaAndJayFuzz (Jan 27, 2013)

vgorst said:


> I apologise, I had no intention of sounding bitchy, tone doesn't really come across in text
> 
> I was wondering how warm the substrate got during the night over the heat mat?
> 
> ...


Bitchy comment wasn't directly aimed at you, was in general. 
Over night it's only as warm as the palm of your hand, but it helps me sleep at night knowing that they have that extra bit of warmth.
As I said I live in a very old house, and during the winter months even I wake up with icicles on my nose! Let alone the dogs. 
I appreciate that they do get hot, hence why I said to thermostat. 
It's all very well and good people jumping off the band wagon with dont do this and don't do that, but it doesn't help with the advice already given! 
It does get cold over night in Australia, but we forget these animals are captive bred and haven't actually experienced that temperature changes of Australia, only the settings in which they where bred and where sold.
There are many people out there that will try and fob you off, believe me, over the years I've met many. I appreciate this forum for people's own experiences. But over recent months, there's less of that, and genuine helpful advice, and more of slating each other and jumping down each others throats.

##RANT OVER## :flrt:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

diddlydee said:


> Inland Beardies dont really live in the area you have provided minimum night time temperatures for though. Their population is more central isnt it?



Central Australia, such as Alice Springs, can drop below freezing in winter


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## heathster (Jan 24, 2013)

I would never use a heat mat for a beardie. They arent great at sensing heat through their feet. So they are likely to get burned if the mat gets too hot

Sent From My Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

diddlydee said:


> Inland Beardies dont really live in the area you have provided minimum night time temperatures for though. Their population is more central isnt it?


Alice Springs Climate and Weather Averages, Northern Territory

Simpson Desert Climate

The Territory | Climate

^ Info for Central



GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> Bitchy comment wasn't directly aimed at you, was in general.
> Over night it's only as warm as the palm of your hand, but it helps me sleep at night knowing that they have that extra bit of warmth.
> As I said I live in a very old house, and during the winter months even I wake up with icicles on my nose! Let alone the dogs.
> I appreciate that they do get hot, hence why I said to thermostat.
> ...


They may be captive bred, but the majority are still adapted to cope with hot, arid day conditions and the freezing cold nights (until you get to freaky 'morphs' like silkbacks). 

This forum does seem to be going down; people recommending absolute rubbish (not referring to this thread  ) and cat fights everywhere! It's turning into a minefield!


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## Purple_D (Jan 18, 2009)

GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> Errrrrr and how?
> How is sticky tape a big no no? If stuck CORRECTLY, there is no way of getting it up, it contains no harmful chemicals, and is not dangerous. What do u suggest? Glue?
> And actually yes I do, but I know many people that don't, and have never had a problem.
> People are always going to have different opinions on what to use, and what not to use.


Have you ever tried getting tape off a reptile.The heat,damp and the rep itself will loosen the tape.What do i suggest,don't use a heat mat in a viv,or fix it down with a frame or staples


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## blabble182 (Dec 26, 2010)

Reptgal said:


> i have all my reptiles on heat mats, including my beardies. i disagree with the comment that they burn, heat rocks should never be used as they do burn the animal because they come into direct contact with it. but you can place your heat matt under an inch or so of substrate. it will not burn them like the rocks, they are also not stupid and do move when they get too hot. they do require a night time drop but i turn off their basking light and UVB light, and keep their mat on. if they cant keep their body temperature up, they will become tired and lose their appetite. remember they cant keep themselves warm like us :/


A large majority of dragons will dig at night to make a little hole for them to sleep in, they will probably lay right on the heatmat to be honest



tremerz97 said:


> not a HUGE no no. but you are best without it. if you are still going to use it put it on a stat.


i know you get some stick on this forum tremerz but thats the best advice youve ever given! use a stat...mats, cables, strips should all have a stat



GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> I have 2 beardies and they BOTH have heat mats. They are good for keeping a consistent temp, especially over night when the lights are off. Mine are selopated to the bottom of the viv (round the sides) on the hot side with a thick layer of substrate over the top.
> The way I look at it, is that they come from a hot country, a heat mat is not going to reach the temperature that a rock would out in Australia, and they bask on those all day. Although they cannot regulate their own body temperature, if they get too hot they will move!
> I've have no problems with mine what so ever. And I think they are brilliant, especially as I live in a very old Victorian house and the temps do drop very low.
> I also have a heat mat in my tegu enclosure.
> ...


there is no requirement for them to have a consistent temperature over night, in fact that is very different from the wild where they would have large drops over night.

tape in a viv is not good. they can dig down through the substrate. often you will find dragons scratching at the bottom of the viv. if they happen to pull up the tape and get caught to it its bad times for the dragon! tape is extremely hard to safely remove from a reptile without damage, trust me ive learnt the hard way. plus the heat from the mat softens the glue which over time makes it very tacky and easy to pull up, but sticks to everything.



GeorgiaAndJayFuzz said:


> With the lights being on during the day, that makes the substrate hot, as would the sun. I find that overnight when the lights are off, the heat mat helps to keep the substrate warm.
> I do use a thermostat.
> I was giving my opinion, everyone has a different.
> 
> ...


there is no sun during the night so the substrate wouldnt be hot anyway.

the forum also has alot of people who seem to not like the way it is yet they still use it?


Meko said:


> Central Australia, such as Alice Springs, can drop below freezing in winter


a quick note on that meko is right but most would be in a state of brumation where they can tolerate a much lower temp



vgorst said:


> Alice Springs Climate and Weather Averages, Northern Territory
> 
> Simpson Desert Climate
> 
> ...


it cant be that bad if you still come on here, there are much worse forums!


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## crazycatlady1987 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ok before this goes any further down the bitching road, I've bought a thermostat for the heatmat which can be set at 18C so won't burn him or boil him, just keep him nice and warm and it's tacked onto the back wall, not on the floor. He sleeps at night on his basking rock, every night without fail so there's no risk of burning. Once the stat comes, ill use the mat but I won't before it comes. He's been at 14C again tonight. It'll just be for winter use when his viv gets cold. I prob won't need it when the nights get warmer. 

Thanks for all your help and advice guys. We're all in the reptile owners club so we should work together to keep happy, healthy pets


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

how far away from the heatmat is the basking rock?

as already mentioned, heat mats work by heating the area they touch. If the basking rock isn't close to the heat mat then it's not having a huge effect; although when you use it you'll be able to see for yourself if it's having any effect on the temperature.


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