# Tilikum the orca whale at Seaworld!!!!



## rob_garrison (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi guys,

Now I'm not normally one to do this kind of thing however, after watching a documentary film called 'Blackfish' , I couldn't leave it alone!

If you don't already know, it documents the Seaworld corporation and the orca whales they have in captivity!

It specifically focuses on a large bull orca called 'Tilikum', his capture and terrible life with the Seaworld co resulting in attacks on trainers through frustration being locked up etc!

I feel strongly about this and thought as long as the moderators don't have any issues, I would post it on here and ask everyone, if they want to, to click the link below or copy and paste and sign the petition to free 'Tilikum'!

A lot of signatures are needed but every little helps!

Cheers 

http://www.change.org/petitions/sea...-whale-known-as-tilikum-to-a-seapen-for-rehab


----------



## Bowells (Dec 12, 2013)

I have also watched Blackfish and found what they have done/are doing is appauling. However, at this point, I believe that releasing Tilikum will do more harm than good to him I feel he's been held captive so long and in such "disturbingly unique" conditions I think he wouldn't last very long as a free whale. It is disgusting the trauma he has endured and we should work towards preventing them from repeating this treatment and/or supplying better conditions rather than simply releasing him as that would not solve the problem.


----------



## SilverWings (Sep 26, 2013)

I agree that releasing him may do more harm than good, I've sen a few documentaries recently on orcas after watching blackfish, they say that each pod has its own dialect. Would he even be able to fully interact with a wild pod if he found one? I think he should be given a huge natural enclosure, a closed off harbour or something, and allowed to live out his days being cared for but not made to perform for amusement.


----------



## rickpellen (Nov 21, 2008)

that documentary is incredibly biased and one sided. Thats not to say that some of the points are not valid, but it is icredibly one sided. 

Having visited pretty much all US dolphinaria i would say that seaworld is easily the best and most modern facility and there are many much worse facilities that deserve to be victimised by the media (EG Miami Seaquarium).

The good done by seaworld in my opinion easily outweighs the bad due to the appreciation of the natural world that they inspire in children. If people see an orca or a beluga in the flesh, they want to keep them around for the next generation. Also orcas are not rare (other than southern resident population).

The most common overlooked point by PETA, animal aid, or other animal rights terrorist organisations is that you categorically cannot release any of the ORCAs at seaworld. 80% of them were born in captivity, so have known nothing else, and of the captive bred individuals are largely all hybrids of orcas from different oceans, which at this time may or may not be classifieds as different species. So there simply isnt any wild for them to even go to as they are not an animal which occurs in nature.

One of the most common arguments against keeping orcas in captivity is that they dont live as long...the fact is we dont actually know that as we ( as in humanity collectively) have only been breeding them in captivity for about 15-20 years. It is widely said that orcas can live 80 years in the wild. This also logically cannot be a known fact....as there is no study that has followed any orcas for that type of timeframe so is purely conjecture. The only orcas we know exact ages on are captive animals.

..chimpanzees and gorillas are another example of an animal which is highly social and proven to be self aware, but i dont see anyone up in arms about keeping them in captivity...

Also the behavioral enrichment of performing has many benfits to the animals, many fo the behaviors performed (spy hopping etc) are all performed in nature and help to keep them fit and healthy. 

All of the above is just my opinion.....based on having grown up near orlando florida and seen that specific whale more times than i can count.


----------



## Bowells (Dec 12, 2013)

> that documentary is incredibly biased and one sided. Thats not to say that some of the points are not valid, but it is icredibly one sided.
> 
> Having visited pretty much all US dolphinaria i would say that seaworld is easily the best and most modern facility and there are many much worse facilities that deserve to be victimised by the media (EG Miami Seaquarium).
> 
> ...


I love a good old debate so here we go: 

Regarding your point about 80% of them being born in captivity and being unable to be released into the wild - I completely agree with you on this point for the exact same reasoning. The fact is they simply would not survive in the wild because of the life we have enforced upon them.

Next you have to understand that everyone who has a belief or a "side" will tend to be biased as simply arguing for both sides although will be a more fair and accurate assesment will also be a less effective one. You in your reply chose to argue for one side and one side alone despite it being generally known that a lot of your answers have been addressed.

I'd like to address your point about Orca lifespan both in and out of captivity and while doing so I'd like to point your attention to this website here:


> ADW: Orcinus orca: INFORMATION


 and more specifically the section headed Lifespan/Longevity which references the Human Aging Genomic Resources and the Cetacean Societies: Field Studies of Dolphins and Whales.

So for you to say it logically can not be a known fact although somewhat true is incredibly misleading as there are people a lot smarter than you or I who have dedicated their entire lives to obtaining this information. It's similar to saying the big bang can not be true because we haven't followed the universe for 13.7 billion years....It's about using the information humans have available to us and theorising the most likely answer.

You are right in saying it's difficult to estimate the age of captive whales due to the limited time frame they have been in captivity but what we can do is monitor their health as they age make estimates from this about their lifespan which obviously has been said to be less than their lifespan in the wild so their health must be more negativily impacted in captivity.
_Cetacean Societies: Field Studies of Dolphins and Whales_

Chimps and gorillas are typically held in a lot larger areas in a ratio to their bodysize (Orcas are a lot lot lot bigger so they require a lot lot lot more space but unfortunately they don't get it).

Finally, I'd like to thank you for your counter points as it does allow me to consider some alternative ideas on keeping orcas captive however I feel there is a lot more evidence to support they do better in the wild.


----------

