# Do fish reach their full length even if in a small tank?



## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

I have just had this talk and i thought maybe somepeople on here would know better than me as im not all clued up on fish!

I was thinking that they would still grow to normal size no matter what the tank size was ?
OR
Like my mums bf pointed do the fish know how much they can grow till they are the right size for the tank they are in and then will it somehow prevent its self from growing ..

If he is right how do they stop them selves from growing to their full potential (sp) ?

Thanks for reading
Charlottie =)


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

If a fish is in a tank that is too small for it, it switches off its growing gene, thus ending up stunted. This obviously affects its health and significantly shortens its lifespan. The LFS people euphemistically call it "growing to the size of the tank" which sounds like an acceptable compromise but _isn't_ IMO for the reasons outlined above. :whistling2:

Case in point - the much abused goldfish which has the potential to grow to between 6-12" depending on the species and can live up to 25 years, if properly housed and cared for. But if kept in a small bowl or tank, will only reach about half that size and lifespan, if it's lucky. :hmm:


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## Marine (Jun 6, 2008)

Thought it worth mentioning that this doesnt apply to marine fish.

An atlantic blue tang for instance that you can buy from around 2" upwards in your local shop will grow to a good 13" over time no matter what size tank you put him in.

You will of course end up with one very stressed / aggressive fish at some point when he gets too big for the tank and there are very few home tanks that can house a 13" fish happily.

The number of fish like these you see in shops must mean that they die regularly in home tanks otherwise there'd be a lot of large fish looking for new homes


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## TUBBS (Mar 16, 2009)

one thing on the stunting, its only the bones that stop growing, the organs carry on and thats what harms the fish worst of all, they will always grow too big for a tank befire stunting comes in though


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Not all fish stunt too, some just keep on growing!


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## khaostim666 (Apr 29, 2009)

hmm this just gave me an idea, i havnt had fish in ages!, pay day im off to buy some!!! Wooooooo


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## strictly_scales (Sep 10, 2008)

No... they will end up stunted and deformed. Fish keeping is simple- if you cannot afford/ have a tank large enough for the species you wish to keep, you can't have it... I would love a Dovi, an Electric Eel, a Bamboo Shark, an African Lungfish, a Shoal of Silver Sharks etc, but I live in a first floor flat and cannot have a particularly large tank... 

There are so many amazing smaller fish that you really won't be suffering.


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## xyra (Apr 26, 2007)

stunting is often caused when the water gets polluted from the larger fish (small tank volumes and filter capabilities are aimed towards small fish) so it isn't healthy enough to grow new bone. the internal organs continue to grow as has already been said and you end up with a heavily deformed fish.

99.99% of the time if the water in a tiny tank is kept perfect (say with daily water changes and big filtration) then the fish will keep growing and growing.

THere is a belief although I don't know if its been backed up with any studies that some species (specifically some SA cichlids) give off a stunting pheromone so other fish in the area in the wild don't grow as fast giving the fish an advantage. In an aquarium this may rebound and effect the fish emitting it. However I have always read this as speculation - if any one knows of any actual research being done let me know 

But in answer to your question. In good conditions fish don't stop growing in small tanks as a rule.


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## TUBBS (Mar 16, 2009)

nah it's not been proved yet, i dont know why the big companys haven't done it yet as they have the lab conditions to do it in which they do food trials in, maybe aquarian would do it at the waltham centre of research as that lab publishes everything it finds even though aquarian pay them to do the trials


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

Thank you very much for the replys! 

x


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## ex0tics (Jun 9, 2009)

I believe only the more domestic fish have adapted to stunt growth many will just keep growing.

I could be wrong though I mean I only keep Koi carp in the pond so..:blush:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

I can remember as a kid my brother had 2 goldfish in a tiny bowl. And they grew to around 6"-7" and they basically just sat at the bottom all day. I made my dad build a pond and now they are still in there, they are over a foot long now and huge.

Well point of the story, they still get massive before they stunt. A 2cm fish wont stay 2cm in a bowl.


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

you wouldnt buy a huge dog and put it a hamster cage would you? if you know the fish your getting will grow large and you dont have the adequate space for it dont buy the fish! or upgrade dont stunt the poor thing it will just mess up the fish.


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

its a myth spread around by bad shop keepers who just want to sell stock on, 
hear is an example of how the myth works
An oscar will grow to 12"-14" in the right sized tank
Some body buys an oscar puts it in a tank that is to small the oscar lives for a few years and dies before it can reach its adult size, That person then go's on to tell people he had an oscar that only grew to 8" and grew to the size of the tank.
Also bad water conditions will slow the growth of a fish even more.


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## xyra (Apr 26, 2007)

rum&coke said:


> its a myth spread around by bad shop keepers who just want to sell stock on,
> hear is an example of how the myth works
> An oscar will grow to 12"-14" in the right sized tank
> Some body buys an oscar puts it in a tank that is to small the oscar lives for a few years and dies before it can reach its adult size, That person then go's on to tell people he had an oscar that only grew to 8" and grew to the size of the tank.
> Also bad water conditions will slow the growth of a fish even more.


Quite right. Other points which has caused this myth of fish growing to the tank size or smaller than "wild" are:

The size listed in literature is generally the maximum size. This is like saying the size of a male human is 8ft 5in. This is the largest recorded, but not the norm. Hence put a fish in a tank and it only reachs 80% of the listed size and people think "oh its stopped growing to fit the tank)

Another issue is inbreeding. A lot of farm bred mass produced fish in shops are terribly inbred and end up dying young or not growing properly. For example a lot of LFS oscars will only reach about 10", but get a quality wild or well bred fish and you could have a 16" fish swimming around. (I think the record for an oscar was about 20" in a german public aquarium, i may be wrong though)


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## Dumples (Jul 8, 2009)

A good example of a fish that grows no matter what is the plecostemus. I've seen those things get huge even when kept in a small 10 gallon tank. They always get marketed by pet stores as a good community any size tank fish too. I don't see them get stunted much.


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

right ok.. let me try and get this right..

Some fish do stunt there growth but many dont ?! thats what i have got so far :lol2:

Thanks for the help people

Charlotte


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a big species in a small tank will just die when it reaches a certain size...

if keeping something in a small container will prevent them from growing then i'm buying baby elephants.... and really small enclosures for them...

mini elephants! those would sell like hotcakes!!!


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

HABU said:


> a big species in a small tank will just die when it reaches a certain size...
> 
> if keeping something in a small container will prevent them from growing then i'm buying baby elephants.... and really small enclosures for them...
> 
> mini elephants! those would sell like hotcakes!!!


:lol2: mini elephants would be cool! could we have mini giffares(sp)?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Charlottie said:


> :lol2: mini elephants would be cool! could we have mini giffares(sp)?


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

Charlottie said:


> right ok.. let me try and get this right..
> 
> Some fish do stunt there growth but many dont ?! thats what i have got so far :lol2:
> 
> ...


some fish in the wild will stunt there growth if in over crowded conditions, but it has never been proved that this happens in the home aquarium.
Simple truth is all fish will grow to adult size or will die before they reach adult size no matter what tank you put them in, And They all will grow slower in dirty water than clean


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## Paul_MTS (Mar 23, 2008)

Research your fish, don't rely on what other people tell you.

Don't put big growing fish in a small tank, simple!

No need to go into this stunting rubbish, don't be cruel to begin with and then you would never need to ask the question.

I get customers spouting this rubbish all the time at work, does my nut in!


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

rum&coke said:


> some fish in the wild will stunt there growth if in over crowded conditions, but it has never been proved that this happens in the home aquarium.
> Simple truth is all fish will grow to adult size or will die before they reach adult size no matter what tank you put them in, And They all will grow slower in dirty water than clean


OK thanks!



HABU said:


>


Brill! Where do you get these from? :lol2:


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

Honestly.

People all say that if you put a fish in a small tank it stops growing.
It doesn't at all.
It may slow down, but it won't stop!

Some other Aquarium myths:

Calcium is only necessary for most community fish.

WRONG! This is one of the worst myths out here as there is no truth to this yet mounds of scientific evidence refuting this claim. Even Discus benefit from Calcium in the water.

It takes at least 6 weeks to cycle a saltwater aquarium.


The original method used for cycling a tank consisted of putting a fish or two in the new tank then waiting up to 6 weeks for the nitrobacter and nitrosoma bacteria to form and grow. It is now known that there are a number of methods which can cycle a tank in as little as one day. 


Water changes are the only way to reduce nitrates in a saltwater aquarium.



There are a number of methods which can be used to reduce or even prevent nitrate build up without performing a water change, e.g. live rock and some algae types.


The ideal reef tank temperature is between 72° and 78° Fahrenheit.

Most corals live in waters that are above 78 degrees.


Tangs (Surgeonfish) are very sensitive to nitrates. 

Surgeonfish are no more sensitive to nitrates than any other species. Tangs have endured nitrate levels of hundreds of ppm for extended periods of time with no ill affects. 


Coral Banded Shrimp kill fish. 

The coral banded shromp is a scavenger as well as a parasite picker, and may attack other shrimp, but will not normally attack fish. Many people who find their Coral Banded Shrimp consuming a dead fish or invertebrate assume that it was killed by the shrimp. However the shrimp is just doing what it does for a living: Scavenging.


Hope this clears up a lot of other questions in the future.


Harry


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## Wandering (Jul 19, 2009)

My 2 pence........

The vast majority of fish (freshwater and marine) produce a type of pheromone as they grow. It basically feeds back to the fish how much room it has to grow. When the pheromone is at very low concentrations in the environment, the fish will grow at a 'normal' rate (providing all other environmental conditions/food availibility etc are optimal).

When this pheromone reaches a certain concentration, fish growth pretty much stops. 

Obviously some fish grow much faster than others and may require a higher concentration of the pheromone before they stop.

Assuming a 'contained' environment like an aquarium is perfectly stable and there are only trace amounts of potentially harmful compounds, a fish will live quite happily without the water being changed too often. The growth pheromones will build up and the fish's growth will slow down or even stop. Do a 50% water change and the fish is likely to have a little growth spurt.

Hope that helps


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## xyra (Apr 26, 2007)

Wandering said:


> My 2 pence........
> 
> The vast majority of fish (freshwater and marine) produce a type of pheromone as they grow. It basically feeds back to the fish how much room it has to grow. When the pheromone is at very low concentrations in the environment, the fish will grow at a 'normal' rate (providing all other environmental conditions/food availibility etc are optimal).
> 
> ...



Out of interest do you know of any actual research to back this up? I brought up this theory earlier in the thread, but didn't know of any research done to further this from a theory? Also wasn't the current theory only based against some SA cichlids?

I'm not saying it isn't true, i'm just wondering if you have seen something I haven't (I haven't overly searched for research papers for it so it is more than possible)

I might try and have a word with Peter Burgess at the next FoF and see if he knows anything about it or any research being done.


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

xyra said:


> Out of interest do you know of any actual research to back this up? I brought up this theory earlier in the thread, but didn't know of any research done to further this from a theory? Also wasn't the current theory only based against some SA cichlids?
> 
> I'm not saying it isn't true, i'm just wondering if you have seen something I haven't (I haven't overly searched for research papers for it so it is more than possible)
> 
> I might try and have a word with Peter Burgess at the next FoF and see if he knows anything about it or any research being done.


Thats great if there is any being done let us know =)


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