# water gel?



## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

anyone not use this or know if it is totally safe?

I need a source of water for feeder crickets and the gel seems the best solution, or is there a better option, as the gel looks like something I wouldn't want my crestie eating, is it full of chemicals etc?


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

Just soak some kitchen roll and leave it in a milk bottle top. We have never even considered using the water gel.


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

Ginapx said:


> Just soak some kitchen roll and leave it in a milk bottle top. We have never even considered using the water gel.


Yeah thanks, think I'll do that, the gel just totally puts me off.


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## GECKO MICK (Jun 6, 2012)

I've always used the gel for my roach and cricket colonys with no problem.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Jebb said:


> anyone not use this or know if it is totally safe?
> 
> I need a source of water for feeder crickets and the gel seems the best solution, or is there a better option, as the gel looks like something I wouldn't want my crestie eating, is it full of chemicals etc?


I have never heard of any evidence that this stuff is dangerous. 

But do you want your crestie to be fed a bug filled with this gel, or one filled with mineral/vit rich watercress, dandelion, carrot etc ? 

Alot of fruit and veg is mostly water (which the crickets need) but with plenty of good healthy 'additives'. i choose to use that instead.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

GECKO MICK said:


> I've always used the gel for my roach and cricket colonys with no problem.


But I can't help wondering if a gecko might live six months longer, or lay an egg that hatches rather than doesn't. The differences could be quite subtle. 

Until somebody proves otherwise my gut feeling (no pun intended) is that green leaves, carrots etc has to be more nutritious and better than water crystals.


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> I have never heard of any evidence that this stuff is dangerous.
> 
> But do you want your crestie to be fed a bug filled with this gel, or one filled with mineral/vit rich watercress, dandelion, carrot etc ?
> 
> Alot of fruit and veg is mostly water (which the crickets need) but with plenty of good healthy 'additives'. i choose to use that instead.


I have mango fig and kiwi in the RUB with the crickets but I thought you had to supply a source of water on top of that? if the fruit and veg is fine then that's even better.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Nope, no need to supply extra water if fresh veg/ fruit is available. I have seen how alot of insect production is done commercially, and I have never seen or heard of water crystals being used in this setting rather than fresh food. 

Mango and kiwi are extremely water rich, I think Kiwis arevery high in vit C (not 100% sure, but def more vits than water crystals !!!). Figs are very naturally high in calcium.


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

I have found that locust require water as well as their veg as they seem to dehydrate quite a bit quicker than crickets and roaches. Although you can just give crickets their veg I tend to always give them the choice of extra moisture. Also I have heard of people using potato for moisture, but potato alone is no good for gut loading as it hold no enrichment.


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> Nope, no need to supply extra water if fresh veg/ fruit is available. I have seen how alot of insect production is done commercially, and I have never seen or heard of water crystals being used in this setting rather than fresh food.
> 
> Mango and kiwi are extremely water rich, I think Kiwis arevery high in vit C (not 100% sure, but def more vits than water crystals !!!). Figs are very naturally high in calcium.


Great thanks, no gel or soggy kitchen roll for me :2thumb:


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Ginapx said:


> I have found that locust require water as well as their veg as they seem to dehydrate quite a bit quicker than crickets and roaches. Although you can just give crickets their veg I tend to always give them the choice of extra moisture. Also I have heard of people using potato for moisture, but potato alone is no good for gut loading as it hold no enrichment.


I have never found locusts require extra water. The common species bred in the UK has the common name of the 'Desert locust' for a reason. But they must have access to plenty of fresh green food. 

To say potato has no enrichment is very odd. I remember reading once that the UK public more of their vitamin c from potatoes than citrus fruit. 

Its definately better than water gel crystals !


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> I have never found locusts require extra water. The common species bred in the UK has the common name of the 'Desert locust' for a reason. But they must have access to plenty of fresh green food.
> 
> To say potato has no enrichment is very odd. I remember reading once that the UK public more of their vitamin c from potatoes than citrus fruit.
> 
> Its definately better than water gel crystals !


To my knowledge yes potato has some vit c but I think that is basically all. There are certainly a huge amount of fruits and veg out there are are much more nutritious. Yes it wasn't exactly true saying NO enrichment but it certainly ain't a veg that you should use to gut load as there are plenty more out there. Lastly the main reason the UK probably gets more Vit C from tatties is because we have a growing problem in this country with unhealthy living and fruit does not seem to get consumed as much as potatoes.

On the point about locust, I have found they seem to die and dry out much quicker when I have left them without water. This is my experiences and I just thought that they may be useful to Jebb.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Ginapx said:


> To my knowledge *yes potato has some vit c but I think that is basically all. *There are certainly a huge amount of fruits and veg out there are are much more nutritious. Yes it wasn't exactly true saying NO enrichment but it certainly ain't a veg that you should use to gut load as there are plenty more out there. Lastly the main reason the UK probably gets more Vit C from tatties is because we have a growing problem in this country with unhealthy living and fruit does not seem to get consumed as much as potatoes.
> 
> On the point about locust, I have found they seem to die and dry out much quicker when I have left them without water. This is my experiences and I just thought that they may be useful to Jebb.


No, potatoes have protein and other nutrients. But I agree there are alot of better choices. 

I breed hundreds of locusts every week at certain times of the year (when I can grow food for them) and I have never seen a problem with not supplying water. In fact I find they get digestive problems if not fed dry bran as well as fresh 'wet' foods. They need the bran to balnce moisture levels in the body. Again I have seen commercial locust production and they just use spring greens and bran.


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> No, potatoes have protein and other nutrients. But I agree there are alot of better choices.
> 
> I breed hundreds of locusts every week at certain times of the year (when I can grow food for them) and I have never seen a problem with not supplying water. In fact I find they get digestive problems if not fed dry bran as well as fresh 'wet' foods. They need the bran to balnce moisture levels in the body. Again I have seen commercial locust production and they just use spring greens and bran.


They also seem to have more potassium than bananas and with high levels of potassium being potentially hazardous to Jebb's cresties it ain't a good idea. 

Anyways I think Jebb has enough info to go on and I would like to stop the argument there as I hear the police coming due to that hijack.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

If anybody is actaully interested in the true nutrition in potatoes look at the wiki article - scroll down and you can see a table with the long list of various minerals and vitamins it contains.

Potato - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For those too lazy to check this out, I will just say for example it contains 6 different types of b vitamins, and vitamins C, E and K, plus loads of minerals too. 

Sorry but when people say something like that has 'no enrichment' I have to challenge that. 

High levels of pottasium in the diet is bad for us, so how come we do ok éating potatoes ? The truth is that when you eat a mixed diet it is not a problem. It balances out in the end. 

If bananas contain alot of pottasium are you going to tell Jebb he shouldn't use them as food for his cresties ? That would be the logical conclusion. I hope not because as long as his cresties get other fruit, and calcium added in the diet, bananas are a great food for cresties.


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## karma_llama (Jan 4, 2009)

:2thumb:The bug gel is made of a material called hydrogel.

When you buy it it is often presoaked, so looks like big gell blobs. In its dry form it is small crystals.

When the dry crystals are soaked in water they absorb the water and expand immensely.

When the crickets 'drink' from the saturated crystals (which now resemble gel) they are just removing the water content, not actually any of the original polymer. Eventually if they drink all the water contect you are left with small dry crystals again.

Therefore you dont need to worry about your crickets ingesting anything unnatural. You can soak them in anything you like. I have soaked some in orange juice before


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> If anybody is actaully interested in the true nutrition in potatoes look at the wiki article - scroll down and you can see a table with the long list of various minerals and vitamins it contains.
> 
> Potato - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Wow are we still on this? This thread is about water gel and not you and me arguing about how nutritional potato is. It is not that "it balances out in the end" it is because we obviously don't eat enough for it to become dangerous where as it would take a lot less to become hazardous in a crested gecko. I'm not telling what do do with anything, just advising him with(in this case) info I have taken from many crestie caresheets where breeders and keepers advise not to use banana. Obviously a little of anything is OK but when people say "bananas are a great food for cresties" others may think about feeding it all the time which is then bad.

Now I really have had enough of this as I have better things to do than search the web for nutritional info on veggies. Also as you "work seven days a week, and work long hours" how can you possibly have time to argue about such a pointless topic?


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Can.you use water retention crystals that you get for plants then?? 

Tiger

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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

These threads are fun. :lol2:

The water crystals for crickets and the ones you use for plants are pretty much the same thing...which might give you a hint.  There are cases of finding these crystals in both the gut of the invertebrates and in reptiles who eat them. While they do draw the water from the crystal, they are also prone to eating the dry crystal itself, as well as having smaller crystals on their bodies. Obviously this would cause problems once swallowed. While this obviously doesnt happen all the time, its best to stay away from them. There is no reason to use them, as mentioned above, vegetables do the same job and also add in extra nutrition. 

As for your potato debate, its also best left out of the gut load diet of feeders. Remember the biggest thing you are trying to do with gut loading is increase the calcium ratio of the insect. Potatoes are very high in phosphorous, and so will decrease the Ca ratio instead of increasing it. For the same reason, you dont want to feed much banana either. Hope this helps.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Ginapx said:


> Wow are we still on this? This thread is about water gel and not you and me arguing about how nutritional potato is. It is not that "it balances out in the end" it is because we obviously don't eat enough for it to become dangerous where as it would take a lot less to become hazardous in a crested gecko. I'm not telling what do do with anything, just advising him with(in this case) info I have taken from many crestie caresheets where breeders and keepers advise not to use banana. Obviously a little of anything is OK but when people say "bananas are a great food for cresties" others may think about feeding it all the time which is then bad.
> 
> Now I really have had enough of this as I have better things to do than search the web for nutritional info on veggies. Also as you "work seven days a week, and work long hours" how can you possibly have time to argue about such a pointless topic?


Well if you are going to make bizarre statements like potato has 'no enrichment' , and then when challenged suggest that 'To my knowledge yes potato has some vit c but I think that is basically all.' I feel I ought to challenge that. When I am say that is nonsense I thought I ought to back it up with some evidence. That is what I did. 

I guess if you don't care about the care of reptiles and what the quality of the food they eat, then this is a pointless topic. I believe the food we give our reptiles is very important, and this is a very important topic, not a pointless one. 

Blimey you actually had to really go through my website and look very hard for that quote about me working long hours. If you look after hundreds of reptiles and have to breed all the food they require, it is seven day a week job. But I would rather live in a sunny climate in a beautiful country looking after reptiles, than say work in an office for a living. 

When I first set up the website, i was deluged with requests from complete strangers who made it pretty clear they did not want to buy any of my lizards, but that were keen to come along and get a guided tour of the place as if it were a free zoo rather, than a private reptile breeding facility. So I added the FAQ on my website to make it clear I wasn't interested in showing complete strangers around my farm. I used the excuse of working long hours (which is true in the summer months) as a reason. If any of you reading this got a request from a complete stranger out of the blue asking to visit your home how would you react ?

EDIT by the way, although I do work hard, I do find time to eat breakfast, have lunch, drink cups of tea. Please forgive me if while doing those things I attempt to help others with what I consider to be good advice in the care of their reptiles.


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## sye1 (Jul 30, 2013)

Would this be the same for a dubia roach colony. Would it be better for me to just throw in half an orange/fig rather than using water crystals what else could I use Thanks


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

sye1 said:


> Would this be the same for a dubia roach colony. Would it be better for me to just throw in half an orange/fig rather than using water crystals what else could I use Thanks


I have a feeling citrus fruits may not be the best?


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## sye1 (Jul 30, 2013)

Jebb said:


> I have a feeling citrus fruits may not be the best?


So basically any fruit and veg that retain water (i:e apple) apart from citrus I only ask because I picked up a colony yesterday and he said he used oranges to feed them and I thought the same (what the roaches eat the bts will eat and they shouldn't eat citrus) I haven't fed it any yet and don't think I will for a couple of weeks now that should be enough time for the orange to be out of the roaches


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## Jebb (Jul 3, 2013)

sye1 said:


> So basically any fruit and veg that retain water (i:e apple) apart from citrus I only ask because I picked up a colony yesterday and he said he used oranges to feed them and I thought the same (what the roaches eat the bts will eat and they shouldn't eat citrus) I haven't fed it any yet and don't think I will for a couple of weeks now that should be enough time for the orange to be out of the roaches


yeah that's my thinking too, roaches will eat most things so you shouldn't have a problem feeding things, I would stay away from citrus until you are sure it's ok to feed that.

I try and feed the stuff I would feed the crestie or whatever animal it is, so mango, fig, kiwi, I also use carrots and cucumber as it contains a lot of water.

I might move to bug burger from Repashy as it is good for both water and food and has loads of other stuff too, it can also be frozen so stores well.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Jebb said:


> I have a feeling citrus fruits may not be the best?


I don't understand the downer on citrus. The roaches love it. In the wild the lizards don't get to choose what fruit/ veg there prey items have been eating. oranges are full of vits, and I believe oranges have good calcium levels too. The important thing is that you shouldn't stick to just one type of food item, the examples from Jebb are good ones as part of the mix. 

Just because the cresties, or blue tongues or whatever wouldn't be fed oranges, it doesn't mean small amounts in the roaches are a bad thing.


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## Ginapx (Jul 31, 2013)

Dragon Farm said:


> I don't understand the downer on citrus. The roaches love it. In the wild the lizards don't get to choose what fruit/ veg there prey items have been eating. oranges are full of vits, and I believe oranges have good calcium levels too. The important thing is that you shouldn't stick to just one type of food item, the examples from Jebb are good ones as part of the mix.
> 
> Just because the cresties, or blue tongues or whatever wouldn't be fed oranges, it doesn't mean small amounts in the roaches are a bad thing.


I don't want to get into another argument, but I have noticed people saying that feeding roaches orange seems to slow breeding. We don't use it so I can't say if it does or not.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I would admit that although I often hear this and think it is nonsense, I cannot prove this either way. I use alot of free wind fall oranges in the winter months, and i have never seen problems. I think this idea stems from the idea that citrus oils could be a problem, but unless the roaches are really badly starved, they are not going to eat the skins where the oils I think are mostly contained. 

Ironically I have read here several times that oranges ARE the secret to best roach breeding, many people swearing they are the secret of sucess.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Ginapx said:


> I don't want to get into another argument, but I have noticed people saying that feeding roaches orange seems to slow breeding. We don't use it so I can't say if it does or not.


Frankly unless somebody does some proper trials we are noty going to know.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

See I always thought oranges encouraged roaches to breed more.. I do use oranges n carrots alone with pig nuts don't use water crystals at all and never have..

Tiger

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