# For New Comers To Exotics or Amphibs - Don't Mix Species Topic



## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey everyone,

A big hello to all the new comers to either the Exotic Pet hobby or just simply Amphibians! 

I have been noticing a lot of new comers posting up asking all the important questions they need to know before making a choice on if the hobby/animal is for them (which is great to see instead of people rushing into it). 
However, the same question keeps popping up every time, which is “Can I mix species ‘A’ with species ‘B’?” or “Can I mix them with anything else?” 
Don’t take it the wrong way, but not entirely sure why you would want to mix before actually having experience with a single species, especially since your a beginner. 

So, I have decided to post this thread for you all to see and find out why not to mix species together. Hopefully a Moderator will see this and perhaps put it as a sticky so new comer’s can see it right away!  

*Right, Down to business! *

Firstly No, DO NOT mix a species no matter what. It is highly frowned upon in all honesty, especially if you have had no experience with an individual species before as really you're biting off way more than you can chew for a beginner. 

Mixing should ONLY really be done if you are an experienced keeper of either species you’re planning on mixing or if you’re experienced at mixing. 

There are so many reasons for not doing this and there is a lot you have to think about before even considering trying it out. Here are a few reasons why you shouldn’t and what you should think about (everyone feel free to add to list!):



Cross Contamination.
Do the animals actually come across each other naturally in the wild? Not being funny or patronising but surely mixing a species from Africa with a species from South-East Asia is clearly a bit stupid. If someone suggests two beginner species to you, dont go rushing in by asking "Can 'A' go with 'B'?" look it up quickly and see if you even like the look or sound of the animals.
Do they require the same Habitat, Set-up and Habitat Requirements such as Temperature, Humidity, and Dampness etc?
Possible Spread of disease; if they are Wild Caught (WC) specimens, certain diseases may lie dormant for long periods of time or they could be carriers (sort of cross contamination but I thought it was too important not to write)
Amphibians all have natural toxins, these are all species specific but they could easily poison each other.
Causing the animal(s) stress from being with a species they may not naturally come across. Stress can easily lower the immune system and cause illnesses and lead to fatality.
Are the species going to eat each other (A big important factor) as people that are wanting to get White’s Tree Frogs (WTF’s) tend to ask if they can either be mixed or put in with younger WTF’s. White’s will eat anything that moves really, they will happily do so and there are many people that will back this up in saying that they have had problems with theirs trying to eat each other.
Unnatural Breeding/Hybrid Specimens; It is possible for this to happen depending on the animals such as Poison Dart Frogs or Mantella species. I haven’t heard of this happening easily (personally) but it might well happen, and is frowned upon especially with Mantella subspecies as most are Rare and Endangered. (Don’t take my word on this; this was just something I thought could happen).
Space Requirements; Is the enclosure is big enough to allow each individual animal to pick a retreat and live it's lifestyle without interference from others. Allowing enough Hides is vital.
 Anyway, there are possibly even more reasons behind why mixing is a big no go area, but I can’t think of any more for the moment! 

As I said before, experienced keepers who have either have experience with mixing species or even just mixing amphibians in general, should be the only people mixing. 

If you want two different species, just get another Set-up and keep them separate as they are still going to give you lots of joy from keeping them. Don’t use mixing as a solution because you can’t fit another tank in your house or you don’t have enough money. 
Save up if you don’t have enough money and be patient and research more while you wait. And if you can’t fit another tank in your house then decide on what you should buy because mixing might just cause more problems than they solve. Besides, there are other options that you can choose rather than mixing such as getting a racking/shelving system etc etc. 

People may not agree with me or they might agree or they might delve deeper into the subject, what you must remember is the hobby is full of opinions on Do’s and Don’ts or what works best for someone, but this topic is what I see most people agreeing with! 

Thank you for reading (If your still awake)

MM

P.S Do plenty of Research, Research, Research, Research and Research…. And on top on that a little bit more Research! Haha


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

As you know, MM, I don't agree 100%; _some_ mixing can be done, but only if:

1) The owner is experienced and knows the species very well indeed.
2) Stress, predation and possible toxin transfer are taken into account.
3) The species involved have broadly similar environmental and habitat needs.
4) The enclosure is big enough to allow each individual animal to pick a retreat and live it's lifestyle without interference from others.

Since very few keepers will be able to provide all of these things, in general, yes, mixing is a bad idea.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Definitely mate, totally agree with you that it can be done but under the right circumstances and by people that know what they are doing 

But for beginners, that haven't kept anything like this before or are asking for information about certain animals they haven't kept before, I do think its a very bad idea, it can be done, I have seen it done in many pet shops or zoo's with Poison Dart Frog's but i assume they aren't beginners... 

I think this topic effects Poison Darts a lot aswell as some people love the look of them and see them in a zoo with mixed species and jump into it lol

Also, i have taken number 4 from your list and added it because it's a pretty good one lol


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> As you know, MM, I don't agree 100%; _some_ mixing can be done, but only if:
> 
> 1) The owner is experienced and knows the species very well indeed.
> 2) Stress, predation and possible toxin transfer are taken into account.
> ...


All this plus:

5) You're doing it to create a natural biotope, NOT because you think the pretty colours will look nice together.

6) The species you mix CAN'T breed together. The last thing the hobby needs is another "fake" morph of dart frog for example. This one tends to get a lot of "old hands" with vivs the size of a room, as so often you see articles about them showing pics of things like leucomelas/Azureas crosses. I know some folks will argue that they would never allow a frog like this to leave their keeping, but my reply to this is as we can't know each other well enough to actually know whether to believe this or not, this should stand. (Yeah I know you covered this MM.  I meant add it to what Ron has posted. :2thumb

I am actually NOT anti mixing, it can be done if you know what you are doing. But as I always say, the simplest guide is "If you need to ask, you shouldn't be doing it".

So although I don't agree 100% with MM, I DO agree with the thread title "*For New Comers To Exotics or Amphibs - Don't Mix Species Topic"*

Ade


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> So although I don't agree 100% with MM, I DO agree with the thread title "*For New Comers To Exotics or Amphibs - Don't Mix Species Topic"*
> 
> Ade


I was hoping you would comment mate! lol 

This is why I wrote the thread mate, for the new comers not for the experts! lol I'm just getting slightly concerned about people that are coming into the hobby, asking about mixing.... I simply dont understand why they would want to mix that soon, i mean before they have even kept a Amphibian or exotic.... 

Hahah fair enough man  
and I would add your number 5 too the list mate but i cant now mate :/ editing option has gone!


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

It`s all quite simple really.
DON`T do it :2thumb:

Mike


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*mixing*

hi on this topic for many yrs 
i have mixed my anoles with my fbts and both have bred very well in their enviorment i total agree with all the above that has been said , maybe what should be said is what are and is compatable together successfully in the right setups and how to acheive these setups .as cannot some small geko be kept with some darts ?? 
surley we endevour to get as natural to natural setup as possable 
and in real life wouldnt we have some liveing alongside eachother ?
just a thought ,,, scot


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

snowdragon said:


> hi on this topic for many yrs
> i have mixed my anoles with my fbts and both have bred very well in their enviorment i total agree with all the above that has been said , maybe what should be said is what are and is compatable together successfully in the right setups and how to acheive these setups .as cannot some small geko be kept with some darts ??
> surley we endevour to get as natural to natural setup as possable
> and in real life wouldnt we have some liveing alongside eachother ?
> just a thought ,,, scot



Hi scot, 

Well tbh it's all done at your own risk, but what the Don't do it bit is actually concentrating on is mixing Amphibians with Amphibians lol I do agree that in wild situations they do live together (if they didn't i would be worried! haha) but dont forget in the wild they have the entire world open to them, all the space they need, unless beginners want a 100ft x 100ft x 20ft enclosure.... you get where im going lol If your trying to recreate a natural Biotope like Ade said then fair enough, do it when you have more experience....
But really beginners are either thinking about mixing because they can't decided which one to go for, they dont have enough room for another viv/set-up, they were both recommended by someone so they think they can mix... 

In all fairness i am not saying it cant be done, cos it totally can be done but by people who are experienced in doing so. People that have just started off, who haven't even looked after one species and are already asking if they can mix is biting off way too much in one go....

However though, you mentioning natural, FBT's wouldn't come from anywhere near Anoles in the wild because Anoles come from places around the Caribbean lol This for example isn't natural living along side each other, so your comment saying "surley we endevour to get as natural to natural setup as possable" is kind of pointless, as it isnt really natural lol 

I think a list should be done if it hasnt already but that would simply encourage beginners to try it which is only going to end badly in the long run lol

In most cases I think that beginners aren't looking into live planted vivs or anything of the kind, they are mostly sticking to the basics first. (however not entirely sure im right in this instance lol)


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*thanks*

great reply 
just wonder then why then my anoles mate and rear and grow very well in the same viv as my fbts ????? lol
maybe i have 2 microclimates the top being total diff from the bottom ?
wow am i gettin this planted viv thing ?
i agree that new comers just want to see a busy viv hence wanting to mix i knows i went and wanted to do the same thing . hence the studying and asking advice b4 getting and going ahead with anything . reps ans amphibs is a costly hobby 
.... scot


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

snowdragon said:


> great reply
> just wonder then why then my anoles mate and rear and grow very well in the same viv as my fbts ????? lol
> maybe i have 2 microclimates the top being total diff from the bottom ?
> wow am i gettin this planted viv thing ?
> ...


That I cannot answer haha There must be a reason for it, but maybe it does have two different gradients or like like you said Micro Climates, depends on the type of Anolis you have really! lol But normally Anole species tend to stick to higher places (might be wrong), however as i said we are talking about Amphibian + Amphibian mixing. All amphibians have porous skin and therefore can absorb any moisture through it, including each others toxins which can end up in disaster.

Well its good you studied before you did it but not everyone does do that unfortunately, people just write on the section asking people that they are getting into the hobby whats a good beginner etc etc and as soon as someone says two species, for example (I'm making this situation up) Epipdobates tricolor or Fire Bellied Toads, instead of asking "ok can you tell me the requirements of the FBT please?" they ask "Will the two mix together well? or would I have to separate?" 
I mean why do people ask that right away rather than asking the obvious stuff about one species? :/ Or even just quickly looking them up on Google or a book etc, every time I see something in a shop I don't jump and say "Right I will take that animal thanks, know nothing about it but oh well". I go home and have a look into the species, if its sold by the time I'm happy i can provide then tough luck just will have to keep my eyes peeled! lol 

It is a very expensive hobby, and its even more expensive when people try the mixing thing I think..... At the end of the day, some people aren't going to listen to peoples advice and end up trying anyway, their animals end up dying and they just say "oh well, what should i get next?", this has happened even without mixing, where someone has listened and not tried the mixing idea and their animals die anyway because they couldn't provide for them or even look after them properly.... FIRSTLY, try looking after one animal species to not only see if you can look after them, but also to see if you even like the hobby! lol


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> I was hoping you would comment mate! lol
> 
> This is why I wrote the thread mate, for the new comers not for the experts! lol I'm just getting slightly concerned about people that are coming into the hobby, asking about mixing....* I simply dont understand why they would want to mix that soon, i mean before they have even kept a Amphibian or exotic.... *
> 
> ...


I think it's because the model most people work on is the 'community' fish tank; even that has it's problems, and most 'community' fish are just fish too wimpy to do each other any harm, rather than 'sweet ickle fishies who want to live together in a model village'! :lol2:


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

frogman955 said:


> DON`T do it


This.

I also prefer knowing each viv contains single species - seems 'cleaner' / clinical (aesthetically) to me.


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

MantellaMan said:


> Hi scot,
> 
> Well tbh it's all done at your own risk, but what the Don't do it bit is actually concentrating on is mixing Amphibians with Amphibians lol I do agree that in wild situations they do live together (if they didn't i would be worried! haha) but dont forget in the wild they have the entire world open to them, all the space they need, unless beginners want a 100ft x 100ft x 20ft enclosure.... you get where im going lol If your trying to recreate a natural Biotope like Ade said then fair enough, do it when you have more experience....
> But really beginners are either thinking about mixing because they can't decided which one to go for, they dont have enough room for another viv/set-up, they were both recommended by someone so they think they can mix...
> ...


The toxins that FBT's produce may be harmful to Anoles as well. 

2 species = 2 tanks, simple as. The only things I would put in with frogs are cleaner insects.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I just want to respond to the part in bold, and please don't think this comment is meant to be snide or narky, but....

In the wild the creatures aren't living in a glass box. They are living in an environment the size of which we can't even approach in our little glass boxes. So no, you aren't coming close to nature keeping multiple species together in even a 1 m x 1 m viv, as even if those species are found together in the wild in a 10metre area that's 10 times the floor space and about 300 times the vertical space you will find in even a 1m square viv. So unless you have a viv the size of a room, you can totally forget the idea that keeping them together is at all approaching natural. In fact, NOT keeping them together is far more natural as the fact is they wouldn't be sharing a 1m cube in nature for more than very very brief periods of time.

Ade



snowdragon said:


> hi on this topic for many yrs
> i have mixed my anoles with my fbts and both have bred very well in their enviorment i total agree with all the above that has been said , maybe what should be said is what are and is compatable together successfully in the right setups and how to acheive these setups .as cannot some small geko be kept with some darts ??
> *surley we endevour to get as natural to natural setup as possable
> and in real life wouldnt we have some liveing alongside eachother ?*
> just a thought ,,, scot


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*as i said*

as i said endevour . and i give up to those who know better than me 
lol
:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
..... scot


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*can i just ask then*

can i just ask then 
when i have visited some dartfrog suppliers not mention names 
that they sell small lizards that are compatable to live along side with darts ??? in the same vivs ??? 
.... i not wanting to start argues just wanting to know answers to this ?
.... scot 
thank :notworthy: i actualy find this thread realy great because its answering a lot i needed answers for so thanks for starting it : victory:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

snowdragon said:


> can i just ask then
> when i have visited some dartfrog suppliers not mention names
> that they sell small lizards that are compatable to live along side with darts ??? in the same vivs ???
> .... i not wanting to start argues just wanting to know answers to this ?
> ...


I have never heard of a quality Exotic Pet Shop mixing small lizards or sell them to live along side Dart Frogs.... Not sure who this is but if they are doing it then it cant be a quality Pet Shop in my opinion with much Reputation lol 
I am assuming that these small lizards are referring to Day Geckos and small geckos? I have seen a Madagascan Day Gecko mixed with a pair of Blue Poison Darts and couldn't make any sense of it as they don't come from each others natural habitats! lol :/ 

As Ade and I said, it isnt natural at all as really its far from it as the animals are stuck in a Glass Tank etc Today i actually felt bad as my Male M.aurantiaca was against the glass with his hands on it as if he was trying to get out, felt kind of guilty but then came to my senses in knowing he was CB! lol No matter how many plants you put in a 'natural' set up, doesnt make it natural in my opinion! lol 

Glad this is clearing up some things for you though


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Wolfenrook said:


> In fact, NOT keeping them together is far more natural as the fact is they wouldn't be sharing a 1m cube in nature for more than very very brief periods of time.
> 
> Ade


Ade i`d like to add a little something to what you posted.
Something that`s being overlooked here but Ade came real close.
Unlike in a tank, no matter how large it is, in the wild they have an escape route when confrontations loom.
Why do people keep asking the question of mixing species ?
It`s always the same answers, DONT.


Mike


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> Ade i`d like to add a little something to what you posted.
> Something that`s being overlooked here but Ade came real close.
> Unlike in a tank, no matter how large it is, in the wild they have an escape route when confrontations loom.
> Why do people keep asking the question of mixing species ?
> ...



...... Mike that pretty much what i have said the entire time on my thread! :L haha i dont understand why the same question is asked by newbies all the time....


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

frogman955 said:


> Ade i`d like to add a little something to what you posted.
> Something that`s being overlooked here but Ade came real close.
> Unlike in a tank, no matter how large it is, in the wild they have an escape route when confrontations loom.
> Why do people keep asking the question of mixing species ?
> ...


Cheers for clearing that up Mike, I'm not always that great at building on my point.  But yes, exactly so, in the wild they can escape. In a viv they're going to reach glass sooner rather than later. Increasing the stress experienced from confrontation a fair bit.

Regarding dartfrog suppliers, I am only aware of one in the UK? Having been there a number of times, and talked a fair bit with the owner, I know it's not him. Although he sells day geckos they aren't housed with frogs, and nor does he suggest it. The one time I discussed them with him (keeping them, NOT mixing them) he was very clear that they have different requirements to darts. As there are NO other specialist dartfrog suppliers in the UK, then that would suggest you're talking about either a reptile shop or a pet shop, and I think it's been demonstrated time and again that the majority care more about the money than they do about the long term well being of the livestock they sell, and also that very few know much at all about keeping dart frogs in the first place. Shops are the worst possible example to follow, short of finding a complete muppet on forums who hasn't a clue either. Heck one of my faves where I got my Asian golden tree frogs from had them in with fire bellied toads, fire bellied newts, small turtles, cuban tree frogs, American green tree frogs... I certainly wouldn't want to recreate that at home. :lol2:

Again, I am not anti mixing frogs. Some mixes can work, when done by somebody who knows what they are doing and has experience. I AM anti mixing amphibians with reptiles though, unless a) the keeper has years of experience with the animals he or she is going to mix and b) has a conservatory sized viv. I AM anti mixing for newbies who even have to ask if it's ok to do, not out of any sense of elitism etc, but simply because they need to learn about the animals they want to keep first, as in hands on experience which you can't get from advice on a forum or a book.

Even experts sometimes get it wrong. Grab yourself a copy of the last DN magazine (the English version) if you don't believe me. There's a guy in there who HAS got a conservatory sized viv, and even he admits he got it wrong the first time around by not taking enough care over what he put in it. That was a guy with years and years of experience.

Ade


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice post Ade. 
And someone will still ask if it's ok to mix. 
Why do we bother. 

Mike


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Right, in all fairness guys I think the best thing to do is stop telling people it can be done by experts or experienced keepers and just say don't do it..... 
It can be done I know that and agree with you all but to be honest if newbies are viewing this and seeing our posts saying "it can be done by experienced keepers", the only bit they are actually seeing is "IT CAN BE DONE" so they will try either way....

Let's be honest there are a certain few people that we (Me, Ade and Ron) have all commented on in their threads telling them not to go ahead with it and yet they still do it and surprise surprise animals wind up dead or they simply ignore us and keep asking and asking if it can be done :/ I have a slight feeling its because they do what i said above, and selective read what they want to read...


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

We bother for those who like we did actually pay attention. Unfortunately there will always be those who read what they want to see, and there will always be those who tell them it's fine. You will also always have those who are VERY experienced with reptiles, and think this makes them experienced with amphibians as well who will ignore the answer and just argue they know what they are doing. But for those who like us actually bother, well they go away and keep happy healthy frogs, just like we did and do.  We were newbies once, heck in many respects I still am, we appreciated and appreciate the advice we were given from experienced keepers with hands on experience, newbies still will, it's the noobs that don't.

I would still assert that the best answer you can give a newbie asking if mixing is ok is simply "If you need to ask, then don't". I would also say it is not a good thing to try to advise them on how to do it, there are just too many variables that effect success, such as how you decorate the viv etc etc, not to mention pure dumb luck on the animals you get as not all of a species or morph behave the same. Heck I have a viv with 2 species of dart frog in it that works brilliantly, would I try to help a newbie to do the same? Heck no, there's too much that can go wrong and no guarantee they would even be able to match my design, or get frogs with similar temperaments. There's far too much that can go wrong, which is why you need hands on experience and to get to know the animals fully before you try it.

Ade


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Regarding dartfrog suppliers, I am only aware of one in the UK? Having been there a number of times, and talked a fair bit with the owner, I know it's not him. Although he sells day geckos they aren't housed with frogs, and nor does he suggest it. The one time I discussed them with him (keeping them, NOT mixing them) he was very clear that they have different requirements to darts. As there are NO other specialist dartfrog suppliers in the UK, then that would suggest you're talking about either a reptile shop or a pet shop, and I think it's been demonstrated time and again that the majority care more about the money than they do about the long term well being of the livestock they sell, and also that very few know much at all about keeping dart frogs in the first place. Shops are the worst possible example to follow, short of finding a complete muppet on forums who hasn't a clue either. Heck one of my faves where I got my Asian golden tree frogs from had them in with fire bellied toads, fire bellied newts, small turtles, cuban tree frogs, American green tree frogs... I certainly wouldn't want to recreate that at home. :lol2:
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I think I know who your on about too with a very obvious name too it, and I know for a fact that they dont mix their geckos with darts or any amphibian! lol As Ade said here Snowdragon, a majority of pet shops or exotic pet shops do care about one thing.... the money! Not all of them are like that but most are all about the amount of wonga they cash in and not about the animal care and the health and well being of the animals they stock!
> ...


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> We bother for those who like we did actually pay attention. Unfortunately there will always be those who read what they want to see, and there will always be those who tell them it's fine. You will also always have those who are VERY experienced with reptiles, and think this makes them experienced with amphibians as well who will ignore the answer and just argue they know what they are doing. But for those who like us actually bother, well they go away and keep happy healthy frogs, just like we did and do.  We were newbies once, heck in many respects I still am, we appreciated and appreciate the advice we were given from experienced keepers with hands on experience, newbies still will, it's the noobs that don't.
> 
> I would still assert that the best answer you can give a newbie asking if mixing is ok is simply "If you need to ask, then don't".
> 
> Ade


Couldnt of said it better myself mate!  I will use that answer if i see a newbie asking again, however i must say thats sort of stopped since this has gone up! :lol2:

I may seem like a bit of a idiot about it but I just worry about the subject for the people that aren't like us and just think because they have kept a Bearded Dragon or Leopard Gecko, that they can go and look after a load of frogs mixed together or whatever! lol In some respects I still a m a newbie at some things, i think we can all be guilty for that, and don't hesitate to ask for your help or anyone else lol As i said earlier, i was hoping you would comment on this as i respect your opinions and knowledge about things....

Whats this article about the guy having a massive conservatory converted? I'm interested in seeing this, does it have a picture? haha


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## snowdragon (Feb 21, 2010)

*i will point out*

i will point out iam not meaning any breeder in mind ok also my own vivs are single frog vivs as for the anole which now live in their own viv . like i said b4 i take a bow to the knowledge of better known 
... scot :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

snowdragon said:


> i will point out iam not meaning any breeder in mind ok



Slight confused at the moment, You said and i Quote that you were wondering why certain suppliers in the UK do sell small lizards that are compatible to live along side Dart Frogs...

Here is the exact quote:


> when i have visited some dartfrog suppliers not mention names that they sell small lizards that are compatable to live along side with darts ??? in the same vivs ???


So you did mean that shops in the UK have done this or do this as you even said places you have "Visited"... Not sure if you just worded your first post wrong or if you made it up but we were only replying to what you said exactly lol


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## gex20 (Mar 22, 2008)

I can speak from being the newbie and i fully agree with the points made, why the hell would a newbie to phibs even think about mixing species

you have to get your head around one species to start with before throwing another into the mix

plus like you said you would need to be an experienced keeper

am a firm believer if u are going to keep a rep/phib keep it with the same species dont mix cos one of the animals always suffer and that not what we do when you go into this hobby


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

gex20 said:


> I can speak from being the newbie and i fully agree with the points made, why the hell would a newbie to phibs even think about mixing species
> 
> you have to get your head around one species to start with before throwing another into the mix
> 
> ...



You would be surprised at how many new keepers or newbies to Amphibians actually do try to mix or even ask about mixing lol A lot of people do ask this, however they have stopped since this thread has gone up!! Which is what I wanted in all honesty!!


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

:up::up::up:


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## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Slight confused at the moment, You said and i Quote that you were wondering why certain suppliers in the UK do sell small lizards that are compatible to live along side Dart Frogs...
> 
> Here is the exact quote:
> So you did mean that shops in the UK have done this or do this as you even said places you have "Visited"... Not sure if you just worded your first post wrong or if you made it up but we were only replying to what you said exactly lol


I believe they may have been referring not to the main UK dart frog supplier which also sells day geckos, but to the other major day gecko breeder in the UK who also sells darts, and most certainly used to say on their website that certain Phelsuma species were commonly kept with bold species of dart frog. 

I have had a look again and can't find it now - either I don't remember which page it was on, or they've decided to take that bit off...


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

beaniebopps said:


> I believe they may have been referring not to the main UK dart frog supplier which also sells day geckos, but to the other major day gecko breeder in the UK who also sells darts, and most certainly used to say on their website that certain Phelsuma species were commonly kept with bold species of dart frog.
> 
> I have had a look again and can't find it now - either I don't remember which page it was on, or they've decided to take that bit off...


There was also some kind of skink (I think) that a lot of Dutch traders used to flog for dart vivs.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Bump, Bump, Bump!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Bump, Bump, Bump!


Should this thread be bumped, or stickied, I wonder?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I reckon a mod could add a link to it in the FAQs thread, as it really is a frequently asked question.

Ade


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Personally I think this should be a sticky! Least then when all the newbies see it, they can look at it right away lol


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

They can only look at it if they bother to read it.


Mike


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> They can only look at it if they bother to read it.
> 
> 
> Mike


Yep, but posting a link is a lot less tedious for us than going through the whole explanation again! :lol2:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

frogman955 said:


> They can only look at it if they bother to read it.
> 
> 
> Mike


Well if they cant be bothered to read it then why come on a site asking the same questions over and over? Lol this is a forum, its designed to ask questions and to READ so if they come on here and not read anything that would help them then whats the point of a forum? Lol and well either way it should be seen or put as a sticky, I feel like a right dipstick bumping it! Lol plus if its at the top of the page personally new comers might be draw to it, and not being funny but its had over 700 views since its been uploaded so its getting seen..


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yep, but posting a link is a lot less tedious for us than going through the whole explanation again! :lol2:


The ones asking the question won't have looked at the stickies,the ones that have contemplated this and then done the homework,will have most of the answers,already strange but true:Na_Na_Na_Na:
Still sticky it,i say or FAQ...:no1:
Josh good work mate,and guys interesting read,not a heck of alot to add from here,it takes all my brain power to get a viv done for one species,to hell with 2.

Oh just this which is slightly off topic,but its been touched on here.As viv's get silly big ie room size i've come across a couple of cases now where the guys doing it,(incredibly experianced) were saying that stocking densities bare no relationship to how we stock vivs numbers of individuals wise.The animals are more able to set a realistic natural territory ie meters sq. So a couple of prs can still cause the same problems one would encounter in one of our poxy meter cubes:whistling2:,just something i thought fascinating,yes i am talking still about single species enclosure,the relevence being,your always going to encounter more issues than this with different species,even in a hellish big viv

Stu


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> The ones asking the question won't have looked at the stickies,the ones that have contemplated this and then done the homework,will have most of the answers,already strange but true:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> Still sticky it,i say or FAQ...:no1:
> Josh good work mate,and guys interesting read,not a heck of alot to add from here,it takes all my brain power to get a viv done for one species,to hell with 2.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate  appreciate that a lot! 

And hmmm that is interesting mate actually and is totally relevant and goes to show that there can still be problems in theses massive converted conservatories! Lol


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I`m not saying to not sticky it.
But of the 700 views you mention how many are from people like us who have read and reread only to see what new was added ?
Newbies often ask because we tell them what they need and they know it saves them the bother of looking for themselves.
Bumping it up will only have them going to the last page anyway.
Personally I don`t mind answering questions to newbies as long as its not a dumb question which they should have researched before hand.

Mike


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

It doesn't take you to the last page, If you click the title it takes you to the first page and if.you click the little arrow in the blue box it takes you to the last actual comment...

I dont mind asking questions, I enjoy helping people all the time, hence why.i wrote the thread lol but you say you dont like answering "dumb questions" well in all honesty asking to mix species before you even know how to look after an animal with no experirnce at all IS a dumb question to ask...
There is no need for it and its commonly a question asked when a user suggests a couple of beginner species for the newbie to look at :/ you just bite off more than you can chew reall and I dont know any of my friends that wants to mix ( save a few of them) and the friends that have gone on about mixing have done it purely out of greed or the fact they are indecisive about whgat species to get and the illusion that it looks pleasing to the eye... And when I speak to them a few weeks later they tell me it had gone wrong and they always say "it didnt work, maybe I shouldnt of done it like you said" lol 

And well since then its gone from just over 700 to 855 with only 45 posts on it so its not doing bad, and I dont imagine Ron or Ade repeatedly looking at this page after writing on it, I know I dont lol sorry if I seem rude or blunt dont mean to be at all


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

:up::up::up:


Tried contacting Pollywog but he hasnt been on in over a month so I thought that maybe it would be easier to contact the Admin but no reply at the moment, soooooo..... I will just have to keep Bumping! lol


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Bump away- it's already come in useful a couple of times.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> Bump away- it's already come in useful a couple of times.


Hahah i know, I saw you link it up on a thread! :L well done mate! 

I am glad I made this thread in all honesty it has helped out alot!


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

BUMP BUMP BUMP!!!!! 

Lots of new comers wanting to Mix species, look instead of just posting a thread in this section why don't you look at other threads (like this one!) :lol2:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

BUMP!!!!!!!!! :2thumb:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

:up::up::up:


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Bump


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I've lost count of how many times I've posted it...


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> I've lost count of how many times I've posted it...


Haha really? Has it come in handy that much then Ron? :L


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

MantellaMan said:


> Haha really? Has it come in handy that much then Ron? :L


Yes. It really should be Number 1 in 'Frequently asked Questions- the last time was a guy who wanted to mix milk frogs with darts- 'cos apperently, 'lots of zoos do it'. I despair, sometimes, I really do.


EDIT: Here it is: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/883661-amazon-milks-pdfs.html


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> Yes. It really should be Number 1 in 'Frequently asked Questions- the last time was a guy who wanted to mix milk frogs with darts- 'cos apperently, 'lots of zoos do it'. I despair, sometimes, I really do.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Here it is: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/883661-amazon-milks-pdfs.html


What.... The.... Actual.... Hell lol I have never ever seen a Zoo mix PDF's with Amazons before, seriously no Zoo i have ever been too has gone that far lol Sounds like an excuse just to mix too me :/ lol


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

It's madness from whatever angle you look at it; size difference, possible toxicity etc etc. I'm thinking it was probably a troll, actually.


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Ron Magpie said:


> It's madness from whatever angle you look at it; size difference, possible toxicity etc etc. I'm thinking it was probably a troll, actually.


He most likely is, because I have been to a few zoo's and not seen that kind of set up lol but still I have commented on it  You might be right mate, I see that as just a way to get people to rage in all honesty lol :/


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## MantellaMan (Feb 3, 2012)

Give this a little bump.:up:


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