# what are the do's and dont's of breeding?



## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

i just wondered if anyone can tell me what are the do's and dont's of breeding in terms or related and unrelated pairs?

for example if i bought a 1.2 trio of leo's who had the same parents, could the trio be bred to one another? or is that a deffinate no no? i've heard talk about 1st generation but dont understand what it means really.


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## animal addict (Jun 1, 2008)

if all the trio are from the same parents then that means they are all siblings - they shouldnt ideally be bred as thats too much inbreeding - if I have this right then those siblings would be the first generation and then the babies of those siblings would be the 2nd generation of the parents etc etc - I think????? Ideal scenario that any breeding pair would be unrelated to minimise risk of defects/deformities - I have read that sometimes you can breed a son or daughter back to a parent but I dont know the specifics of this and it would concern me personally to do this and then it gets all too complicated and I dont know enough lol so hopefully some-one else will come alomg and explain it better


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## cervantes (Apr 24, 2008)

It's also hard to tell the exact history of some animals. People may have unknowingly inbred their reps.


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## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

yeah completely agree.

i also thought it depends on the way the morph has been created, line bred which is inbreeding to a point, or genetic where it is a combination of hets or morphs.

i wont name names, but i asked a leo breeder if it would be okay to buy a trio of sunglow leos off her early next year, just to breed for my own enjoyment, i asked her what the blood lines were but she never replied.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

TBH leos can be successfully inbred for quite a while. I would only recomend it for about 3 generations and then you should ideally introduce new blood.
After all every morph with any reptile has been created through inbreeding!

And im not having a go or sticking up for the breeder but alot of people who sell reptiles just dont know the bloodlines, for example a hobbiest has a hypo het albino and an albino.. both from different places they put them together and produce sunglows... would you as a hobbiest want to put a tag and say these are "x" line sunglows. After all i think a lot of people would slate them for naming them their own!


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## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

Aslong as the breeding pair you are breeding are in *tiptop* conition and of full health then they should be fine. But if you get any genetic defaults then never breed them again even if they have produced perfectly fine babies in the past.:2thumb:


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## Jon2ooo8 (Sep 6, 2008)

:sad: a bell albino soldto me has a genetic default. not very nice


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Jon2ooo8 said:


> :sad: a bell albino soldto me has a genetic default. not very nice


Is it deffo genetic and not an incubation deformity?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Here are MY personal rules:

*DO inbreed to "fix" beneficial traits* like ready feeding, good size, good temperament, good doers and hardy offspring *as well as* "pretty colours". Colours aren't everything - no matter how pretty an animal might be, if it won't feed, won't grow, bites the poo out of you and has sickly babies, what good is it as a breeder?

*DO outcross to animals with the same beneficial traits* your inbred line does. Breed good feeders to good feeders. Breed a lavender from Line A to a lavender from Line B. Breed the best of the best you can get.

*DO stop breeding a pair that throws defective offspring*, whether they're inbred or outcrossed - and that includes poor feeders, poor doers, lots of runty offspring or lots of infertile/failing eggs. That means you shouldn't breed them to anything else either - retire them and keep them as pets.

*DON'T inbreed just because a pair of siblings is all you have.* How difficult is it to find an unrelated animal of a common species if you want to breed? Ok, you like Billy and Bessie and they look so sweet together, but if you just want to breed nice babies without a specific genetic goal, you're better buying from two different sources.

*DON'T outcross an animal that regularly throws defective offspring from an inbred pairing.* It carries the trait; all you're doing is creating "possible hets". Nasty recessive traits can hide for generations and pop up when you least expect them if you think outcrossing will "get rid" of the trait... unless you're willing to test out your "possible hets" and CULL animals that are actual carriers. Not willing to kill healthy hatchlings or adults that carry nasty defective genes? Don't create them if you can help it.

*DON'T breed animals that were poor feeders, poor doers or otherwise sickly.* Yeah, they're lovely pets sometimes... but do you want to perpetuate those traits and make the species as a whole weaker?


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## Jon2ooo8 (Sep 6, 2008)

sam12345 said:


> Is it deffo genetic and not an incubation deformity?


genetic stomach deformaty or something.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

hmm not nice!


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## Jon2ooo8 (Sep 6, 2008)

not nice at all, feel sorry for the poor soul. just gotta hope aint you.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Jon2ooo8 said:


> not nice at all, feel sorry for the poor soul. just gotta hope aint you.


Yeah! How old is he now?


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## Jon2ooo8 (Sep 6, 2008)

shes around 3- 4 months old.


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## Amyboo (Nov 11, 2007)

ok thanks everyone for the info, very much appreciated


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Any animal that is a morph will probably have been quite heavily inbred at some point in the close past...if you think about it most morphs come from one founder animal and the only way that morph has spread is through breeding siblings together or parents to offspring etc. If you have two animals of the same morph...even if you got them from different sources they still share at least one common ancestor and likely much more than that.


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## Willythegame (Sep 20, 2008)

tbh ALOT of the species we all have are RIDICULOUSLY inbred, ask any big corn breeder ten generations are not uncommon. I know that in the case of some up and coming specie of mtn king there was only say 4 animals brought into this country,all animals today are related. 
Breeders today line breed all the time to produce the much coveted morphs.


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