# Non-Native species in the UK



## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

All the animals listed below are classed as non-native species and are breeding in the UK.
If anyone can add to this list it would be handy, and if they can identify where these species are likely to be found that would be cool too

North American Bullfrog _Rana catesbeiana_
Marsh frog _Rana ridibunda_
Edible frog _Rana esculenta_
Pool Frog _Rana lessonae_
European Tree frog _Hyla arborea_
Fire Bellied Toad _Bombina sp_
Midwife toad _Alytes obstetrica_
African Clawed Toad _Xenopus laevis_
Alpine Newt _Triturus alpestris_
Italian Crested Newt _Triturus carnifex_

Red eared terrapin _Trachemys scripta_
Stripe necked terrapin _Mauremys caspica_
Snapping turtle _Chelydra serpentina_
Painted turtle _Chrysemis picta_


Aesculapian snake _Elaphe longissima_


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

Where did you get the information that all those turt species were breeding in the UK?

I have never found a substantiated case of turts breeding in the wild in the UK, eggs being laid maybe but not hatching in the wild, it has always been my understanding that it doesn't remain warm enough for long enough for the eggs to incubate successfully here.

I would be extremely interested to hear of any proven cases of this happening.


----------



## Storm Python (Jan 10, 2008)

*Good thread mate.*
*some woodland/farmland near Lewes in east sussex have a collony of king snakes that are thriving.*
*A local farmer had a problem with a rodent infestation & released a few king to eat them & there still alive & breading by all accounts i know a few people personally who have caught a few.*

*Also iv'e been told that there is at least 1 ''croc'' (no idea what species) in the marsh land near the lotbridge drove area of eastbourne but thats not 100%*

*The kings how ever are deffinatly there.*


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Male snapping turtles mature at 3 to 5 years and females at 4 to 6 years. Mating usually takes place in water early in the 
summer. Although snapping turtles breed in the water, their eggs are laid on land. Female snapping turtles often have 
traditional nesting areas and they are known to journey 10 miles (16 km) in order to reach the nesting site. Twenty to 30 eggs 
are laid in a hole in moist soil about 4 to 7 inches (10 -18 cm) deep that is dug with their hind legs. The eggs are round, 
shelled, and about an inch (2.5 cm) in diameter, about the size of a small golf ball. Once the eggs are laid, the female turtle 
has completed her maternal tasks and returns to her pond or stream. 
The turtle eggs often hatch in the fall after an incubation of 2 to 3 months. If the eggs are laid late in the season, they may not 
hatch until the following spring. The incubation temperature of the eggs determines the sex of the hatchlings. Males result if 
the eggs are maintained within the temperature range of 72 to 82 degrees F. (22-28 degrees C). Snapping turtle eggs produce 
more females at incubation temperatures outside of this range. As soon as they have hatched, the young turtles make their 
way to water. They grow quickly and may reach 6 inches (15 cm) in shell length within their first year. Many of the 
hatchlings become prey to raccoons, skunks, snakes, bullfrogs, herons, and other large birds.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

painted turtles
Nesting occurs from late May to mid-July. The female prepares a flask-shaped nest in slightly moist loamy or sandy soil at a sunny site near water. The number of eggs laid varies from 2 to 20, differing among the subspecies. Incubation in nature and in captivity averages 76 days. 
The influence of incubation temperature on hatchling gender is well-documented in painted turtles. Eggs incubated at relatively higher temperatures (87°F, 30.5°C) produce female hatchlings; lower incubation temperatures (77°F, 25°C) produce male hatchlings. At the pivotal temperature of 84°F (29°C), both males and females are produced. 
Hatchlings emerge from the egg with the help of the caruncle or eggtooth. The caruncle drops off a few days after hatching. The hatchlings have a keeled shell and an abdominal fold, both of which disappear as they grow. Their shell pigmentation and markings are brighter and more pronounced than those of adults. They mature about five years after hatching and are thought to live as long as 20 years. 
Wild hatchlings may overwinter in the nest. The inch-long (2.5 cm) hatchlings can survive being frozen! Adult painted turtles are also cold tolerant, and have been observed swimming under ice. Most painted turtles become dormant in the colder winter months. They burrow into the mud of their pond or seek muskrat burrows or other suitable shelter. While dormant, their need for oxygen is greatly decreased, and they can absorb sufficient oxygen for their needs from the water through their skin, throat linings and thin-walled sacs in the anal area. 
Since painted turtles range so extensively, they are found from the coldest-winter to the warmest-winter regions of the United States. The more northerly subspecies brumate regularly and for a longer period than their southern cousins. It is possible that southern and western painted turtles living in the most southerly reaches of their ranges do not brumate.


----------



## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Corns

hahah


----------



## ishotthesherifswife (Jun 10, 2008)

Mandarin ducks and american cray fish


----------



## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Canadian Geese


----------



## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

> All the animals listed below are classed as non-native species and are breeding in the UK.
> 
> Pool Frog _Rana lessonae_


Rana Lessonae are native and have been re-introduced to the UK.



> If anyone can add to this list it would be handy, and if they can identify where these species are likely to be found that would be cool too


I could add to the list and I could tell you where populations can be found but I wont. I don't think publishing such details on an open forum for all to see is a good idea; A) Who is to say that some of these are not actually remaining populations of native species? B) It's fuel for animal rights groups. C) It's encouraging people to go catch themselves some free pets. D) It's encouraging people to go and dump more unwanted pets in that area thinking that they are ok to do so as they are already present.


----------



## llama_girl (Jul 6, 2008)

Grey Squirrels...


----------



## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

As this is a herp' forum, can we keep it to non-native reptiles and amphibians please, unless you know of any *really* interesting non-native mammals


----------



## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

The agile frog as i've caught one, and an green anole.


----------



## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Crotalus ruber-cant say where but been breeding for a few years in this country.


----------



## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Berber King said:


> Crotalus ruber-cant say where but been breeding for a few years in this country.


You actually being serious...!


----------



## sean k (Dec 20, 2007)

*herp*

you are luckey if you find any non native herps around i have never seen any in kent only marsh frogs.


----------



## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Declan123 said:


> You actually being serious...!


Certainly am.I dont know the exact location as its a closely guarded secret,but true ...............


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> As this is a herp' forum, can we keep it to non-native reptiles and amphibians please, unless you know of any *really* interesting non-native mammals


Melanistic Leopards, Cougars and other small felines.


----------



## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

seriously, red diamond rattlers? breeding in this country? and no-one's heard of it?


----------



## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> seriously, red diamond rattlers? breeding in this country? and no-one's heard of it?


Crotalus ruber ruber's are my fave rattler...

and breeding in the UK... 

hey Stuart you heard of this?


----------



## bluetongued (Apr 25, 2007)

I think pool frogs are native...I was listening to it on radio four the other day....although I think they went extinct and they reintroduced it from Europe....but it is the same sp as the original.

Hope that makes sense!!!


----------



## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> seriously, red diamond rattlers? breeding in this country? and no-one's heard of it?


Only a few people do know about it,i was told in confidence and prob shouldnt have posted on a public forum but the location will never be revealed.They are on a piece of private land,away from habitation-and will probably continue to remain unmolested and doing no harm-apart from to the local rodent population.


----------



## gtm (Jan 23, 2008)

What about boids? I regularly see Parakeets in my local park.


----------



## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> Melanistic Leopards, Cougars and other small felines.


He's right, there is a Melanistic Leopard/Panther living in the New Forest area out the front of my house.

I've seen it once, a friend has seen it once, and another person down the road has seen it once.


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> He's right, there is a Melanistic Leopard/Panther living in the New Forest area out the front of my house.
> 
> I've seen it once, a friend has seen it once, and another person down the road has seen it once.


I sense sarcasm...:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Oh and there are supposed to be wild Corn snakes somewhere in Essex...


----------



## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> I sense sarcasm...:Na_Na_Na_Na:



No no, I'm deadly serious. We've all discussed things, as it's only been glimpses, but we're positive it, or something very similar is out there.

I mean, there's plenty of livestock around in my area, so it's not short of food.


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> No no, I'm deadly serious. We've all discussed things, as it's only been glimpses, but we're positive it, or something very similar is out there.
> 
> I mean, there's plenty of livestock around in my area, so it's not short of food.


I'm pretty sure they're out there...


----------



## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

fire salamanders i think


----------



## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

According to Schedule 9 of the WCA 1981, the only non-native herps listed as ‘established’ in the wild in the UK are:-

Scientific name / English name / Year scheduled 

Reptiles 
Elaphe longissima, Aesculapian snake 1992 
Emys orbicularis, European pond terrapin 1981 
Podarcis muralis, Common waII lizard 1981 

Amphibians 
Alytes obstetricans, midwife toad 1981 
Bombina variegata, YelIowbeIlied toad 1981 
Hyla arborea, European tree-frog 1981 
Rana esculenta, Edible frog 1981 
Rana ridibunda, Marsh, frog 1981 
Triturus alpestris, Alpine newt 1981 
Triturus carnifex, Italian crested newt 1992 
Xenopus laevis, African clawed frog clawed toad 1981 

Excuse the out of date scientific names. 

A review of this schedule has recently been out to consultation, but the results aren’t out yet. No herps were proposed for addition to, or removal from, this list as part of this consultation, but many of us will have pointed out the Lacerta bilineata on Boscombe cliffs, many ‘Common’ wall lizards will actually be Italians (P.sicula) and many of the ‘green frog' complex will be Albanian, Balkan, Iberian etc green frogs

According to Nick Arnold’s Field Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians of Britain and Europe, which is a well-regarded text, species that have survived for at least 25 years in wild or semi-wild conditions include all of the above plus the American bullfrog and Lacerta viridis


----------



## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

pollywog said:


> Rana Lessonae are native and have been re-introduced to the UK.


Depends on which group of Rana lessonae (now Pelophylax lessonae) that is being referred to, as in Britain there are two genetically distinct populations.

The populations originally inhabiting East Anglia are considered to have been native populations (which was presumed extinct in 1995), and part of a 'northern clade' of Pool Frog. These animals are very similar to populations in Norway and Sweden, and are now subject to a species recovery programme in East Anglia using individuals from Sweden. 

However, Pool Frogs in the South of England are genetically far closer to those populations found in Central Europe, and as such are considered 'non-native'


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

they say bigfoot lives in my woods.... no joke! but then we have a lot of moonshine and weed about... these guys are liable to see anything...:whistling2:


----------



## -matty-b- (Dec 13, 2007)

theres atleast 2 terrapins in a small lake up the road from me that have been there years, and as said have never bred (assumin there male+female)


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Wall Lizards*

Wall lizards *are* V*ery common* on the south coast!!!

Red Rattlers???????

someone is taking the *pss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*and on that thread i recon that VAT inspectors are nice people and not :censor:ankers


----------



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Here is a list of species which are confirmed:

*Known Alien Species*​ 
*Species*
*Scientific name *
*Present*​*Breeding*​*Est*​*Threat*​Alpine newt 
_Triturus alpestris_
Yes​Yes​?​Medium​Italian crested newt 
_Triturus carnifex_
Yes​Yes​?​High​Midwife toad
_Alytes obstetricans_
Yes​Yes​Yes​Low​African clawed toad
_Xenopus laevis_
Yes​Yes​?​Low​European tree frog
_Hyla arborea _
Yes​?​?​Low​North American bullfrog 
_Rana catesbeiana_
Yes​?​?​High​Marsh frog
_Rana ridibunda _
Yes​Yes​Yes​Medium​Edible frog
_Rana esculenta_
Yes​?​?​Low​Red-eared terrapin
_Trachemys scripta elegans_
Yes​No​No​Low​Green lizard 
_Lacerta viridis_
Yes​Yes​?​Low​Wall lizard
_Podarcis muralis _
Yes​Yes​Yes​Medium​Aesculapian snake
_Elaphe longissima_
Yes​Yes​?​Low​

It is illegal to introduce non-native species, release pets.


----------



## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> Here is a list of species which are confirmed:
> 
> *Known Alien Species*​
> *Species*
> ...


Chris 

I am interested in how you define the threat element in the above.

I can understand if for say the newt species which can and do cross with GCN and also the issue of Bull frog which is a serious predator but for other species such as Wall lizard and even Marsh Frogs its unclear to me.


----------



## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Chris
> 
> I am interested in how you define the threat element in the above.
> 
> I can understand if for say the newt species which can and do cross with GCN and also the issue of Bull frog which is a serious predator but for other species such as Wall lizard and even Marsh Frogs its unclear to me.


 
i asume it would be down to the fact do they pose a threat to native species out growing out breeding native ones meaning native ones will start to decline do to the fact that thes non native animals are better 


luke


----------



## retri (Mar 5, 2008)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> He's right, there is a Melanistic Leopard/Panther living in the New Forest area out the front of my house.
> 
> I've seen it once, a friend has seen it once, and another person down the road has seen it once.


with that many sightings could even be more than one


----------



## TAXI (Apr 5, 2008)

StormTrooper said:


> *Good thread mate.*
> *some woodland/farmland near Lewes in east sussex have a collony of king snakes that are thriving.*
> *A local farmer had a problem with a rodent infestation & released a few king to eat them & there still alive & breading by all accounts i know a few people personally who have caught a few.*
> 
> *.*


I can see that,After keeping Kings.....Drops in Temps don't really Bother them.And when i gets to cold i assume they borrow as they do in viv...

LOVe to see them.........


----------



## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

No reason many North American species couldnt live and breed in our climate...........


----------



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

The red rattler rumour intrigues me! IF it is true, and a massive IF, them I am not surprised the location is secret, for 2 reasons.

1. The release would be illegal under the Wildlife and Countryside Act
2. There is not a single local authority in the country that would issue a licence if they knew they were to be released!! So there is an offence under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act.

And thridly, we all know how good snakes are at escaping. By now, one at least would have escaped. I think someone would have seen one???!!


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

garters might take over the place like grey squirrels.... by the way i caught another garter in that box outside..... i've almost got them cleared out.:whistling2:


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I can confirm that in addition to Red Eared Sliders, Yellow Bellied Sliders and Cumberland Sliders are both definitely present, I'm aware of several local populations and have photographed them.

I'd still like to see a substantiated report of _any _turtle species breeding successfully in the UK in the wild though.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

an unusually long and warm summer could cause some interesting things to happen..... you never know... also some live bearers would find warm spots, natural or otherwise to help in successfully producing a brood..... you never know....:whistling2:


----------



## reptile_dude (May 31, 2008)

In the the new forest reptile center you 
can see all our native herps, and some
of the introduced ones.


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

ian14 said:


> The red rattler rumour intrigues me! IF it is true, and a massive IF, them I am not surprised the location is secret, for 2 reasons.
> 
> 1. The release would be illegal under the Wildlife and Countryside Act
> 2. There is not a single local authority in the country that would issue a licence if they knew they were to be released!! So there is an offence under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act.
> ...


A Rattlesnake is probably the best to escape because at least it gives warning before you stand on it and it bites you...:lol2:


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> A Rattlesnake is probably the best to escape because at least it gives warning before you stand on it and it bites you...:lol2:


 if you have a lot of prey items they would make out like a fat cat..... depending on the species... the timbers that i have around here would do well... but i don't know if they could produce viable offspring...... they'd eat well and could handle the mild climate.


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I'd say we have quite a few yeah...


----------



## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

besides the bull frog and african clawed toad i dont think any of the introduced amphibians could do a massive amount of harm, and as far as competing with native amphibians, its not like theres that many left ot compete with, even without non native amphibians id give our native amphibians maybe 20 years before they either go extinct or are removed from the wild and put into man made habitats because of all the habitat destruction, lil kids who kill them and cats out there.


----------



## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

jesuslovestheladies said:


> besides the bull frog and african clawed toad i dont think any of the introduced amphibians could do a massive amount of harm, and as far as competing with native amphibians, its not like theres that many left ot compete with, even without non native amphibians id give our native amphibians maybe 20 years before they either go extinct or are removed from the wild and put into man made habitats because of all the habitat destruction, lil kids who kill them and cats out there.



I can't see the African Clawed toad being a threat really - although warming climate might increase survival rates, they are very poor dispersers so current populations are unlikely to spread very far, or very quickly.


----------



## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

alright so for amphibians its just the american bull frog... cant condone non-native species as being a good thing but im not going to complain about them as far as amphibians are concerned.


----------



## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

neep_neep said:


> I can't see the African Clawed toad being a threat really - although warming climate might increase survival rates, they are very poor dispersers so current populations are unlikely to spread very far, or very quickly.


From the recent consultation on amendments to WCA Sch 9 (Source Defra):-

Xenopus Laevis

Known to be a vector for the pathogen which causes the
disease chytridiomycosis, which has been implicated in
serious amphibian population declines. Escape from
captivity is likely (and has been documented in many
countries). It can establish large populations in certain
conditions. Several hundred were removed from one site
in Lincolnshire in recent years. Diet is primarily
invertebrates but it can also be cannibalistic and would
prey on other amphibians such as great crested newts.
The main possibility of detrimental effect is through spread
of disease though competition effect may also be possible
with native amphibians. This species is in trade, much of
which is for research purposes.​


----------



## jesuslovestheladies (Apr 30, 2008)

alright so xenopus is back on the bad guy list, but surely we can accept the italian crested newt and the other two rana species?

as for euro pond terrapins they were native to this country a few hundred years ago anyway.

and hyla aborea too, not the biggest carnivore on the planet eh?:hmm:


----------



## ogawa only (Jun 4, 2008)

bradhollands999 said:


> Oh and there are supposed to be wild Corn snakes somewhere in Essex...


 funny you say this , iv found quit a few in my garden over the last few years , and i just put it down to someone getting them to keep replaceing the one's ive found , which they've lost !!! when i find them i put them in atub and wack em on a heat matt , they never go past 24hrs , i just put this down to thm being cold for to long . 

the wild population you've bought up is in , or should i say, at the back of reptile master's , upminster /crahnam , and they've been there quite a while !!! i stopped keeping rep's 10-12yr's ago , and can remember a guy who used to run it for bob , saying he's found adults , sub's and hatchlings , most of it can be put down to them doing a bunk , but finding hatchlings on a basis where there's quite a few , and lets be honest you would miss that many corns , if they come from your own tanks and viv's .

, finding the corns over the last few year's is what has got me back to the rep's , so lets it's fate, karma or just a ton of lost corns:2thumb:


----------



## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

jesuslovestheladies said:


> alright so xenopus is back on the bad guy list, but surely we can accept the italian crested newt and the other two rana species?
> 
> as for euro pond terrapins they were native to this country a few hundred years ago anyway.
> 
> and hyla aborea too, not the biggest carnivore on the planet eh?:hmm:


T Carnifex is a problem because it can hybridise with our native T cristatus, which is something we want to avoid.

This is what the Herpetological Conservation Trust have to say about Euro Pond terrapins:-

_This Terrapin used to be native c. 8,000 years ago. It was presumed to have become extinct due to climate deterioration. However, odd individuals have been found in this country in recent years although we are uncertain if they are breeding. It can only be conjectured whether these constitute a remnant of the original population or are escapees from captivity._

Predation is not the only reason why it is illegal to release non-native species; there are other issues such as spread of disease, hybridisation, competition etc. Invasive non-native species are the second biggest threat to biodiversity on earth after habitat loss, and although I take your point that Hyla arborea aren't going to go mad like cane toads in Oz, the effects of non-natives can be subtle, long-term and difficult to predict.


----------



## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

Bottom line, if you want to see some different species in the wild, go abroad, go to France, bring back some cheap booze and cheese while you're at it.


----------



## dmrich (Nov 29, 2007)

I love all this kind of stuff and the fact that even experts are stumped sometimes over whether an animal is native, extinct but reintroduced or non-native. There is even debate over whether the big cats that are sighted (and I am sure that they are) are infact a native cat rather than descendants of zoo and private collection escapees. 

Interesting that there are corns just down the road in Benfleet?


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

dmrich said:


> I love all this kind of stuff and the fact that even experts are stumped sometimes over whether an animal is native, extinct but reintroduced or non-native. There is even debate over whether the big cats that are sighted (and I am sure that they are) are infact a native cat rather than descendants of zoo and private collection escapees.
> 
> Interesting that there are corns just down the road in Benfleet?


who exactly thinks they are native?

I'd love to know as all the ones captured (both dead and alive) are definately non native species. I'm also pretty sure racoons and sugar gliders have never lived here..yet they can be found too.


----------



## dmrich (Nov 29, 2007)

I read it a while a ago somewhere - we used to have similar large predators to the rest of Europe and North America/Canada but the last of the Bears/Wolves in the UK were killed around about 200-300 years ago. I believe that the thinking was that Cougars could have existed in the UK for thousands of years relatively undetected - as even where they exist in the wild in abundance in America/Canada they are hardly ever seen. 

They have caught live specimens in the UK? - do you have any links?


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

this link isn't bad

British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website

Most of them end up shot but there have been one or two live captures. I happen to know of a WC racoon for sale very recently. It was WC in sussex!


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

this gives more detail on the lynx captured in '01

'Beast of Cricklewood' captured by RSPCA - This Britain, UK - The Independent


----------



## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> as for euro pond terrapins they were native to this country a few hundred years ago anyway.


Actually that would be several _thousand_ years ago, before the last ice age!


----------



## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

ogawa only said:


> they never go past 24hrs , i just put this down to thm being cold for to long .


your probably heating them up too fast


----------



## ogawa only (Jun 4, 2008)

weelad said:


> your probably heating them up too fast


 na , 2c above what i found them at , never got the chance to go any futher in heat ect


----------



## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

strange


----------



## shelley_draven (Jul 5, 2008)

Some animal rights campaingers broke into a local aquatic centre some years ago. They let among tropical fish and coldwater fish go before they were disturbed. The tropical fish wouldn't have survived life in the canal but many Koi carps were released which are apparantly alive and well. One fisherman caught a massive one a year after this had happened and there have been sghtings of the same.


----------



## ogawa only (Jun 4, 2008)

weelad said:


> strange


tell m e about it i could have had i nice collection by now:lol2:
it's comming up to that time again , so i'l keep em peeled


----------

