# Why should YOU use a thermostat? * Read this*



## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Well, after endless emails asking me if it would be ok if they didnt use a thermostat, and there have been a few people that have posted also about this and wanted to know the dangers of not using a thermostat. Well here are the dangers:


*H*eatmat brand: Ultratherm vivarium heatmat, 142 x 274mm, 230 volts, 7.25 watts.

Thermometer type: Exo terra digital thermometer.

Current room temp: 80.1f 


Heatmat Just turned on (3 seconds) Temp: 81.3f.










Heatmat on for 2 min: 87.1f.










Heatmat on for 3 mins: 92.3










Heatmat on for 4.5 mins: 96.1f ( i didnt think it would get this hot! its only a small mat!









After 6 mins it was 98.4! then it almost went upto 99f. MADNESS!











Hope this helps some people, im going to email people who asked me about thermostats the link to this thread, cheers. :!:

Remember this is only a small mat!, at my room temp is 81f. Cheers.

If this was used to heat a rub, the royals or other snakes wouldnt be able to escape the heat at all.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Another one here for you. http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/174166-do-i-really-need-thermostat.html


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Meko said:


> Another one here for you. http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/174166-do-i-really-need-thermostat.html


Cheers, worrying because my mat that i used want in a tub, just on the floor, so it would get much hotter in a tub or viv. Cheers for posting the link : victory:


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

STICKY on captivebred


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

you have your temperature gauge directly on you heat mat!!! Thisis like selotaping it to your basking bulb just to prove a point!


I have 2 vivs and use 2 microclimate AHS heaters to control low temp and nightime temp! My basking bulbs allone keep the ambient temp absolutely perfect- regardless off summer or winter fluctuations in the home temp!

You can simpily regulate you viv temps by adjusting the wattage of your basking bulb!!! I run 2 viv exotic 48s and have NO negligable difference in ambient temp from summer to winter!!! I utilize 75 watt basking bulbs and have a consistent temp from day to day! If it goes up a couple of degrees in summer then thats fine- as long as the cool end is a cool end then beardies are accustomed to having periods of warm/hot and periods of cool!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Ambersnake said:


> you have your temperature gauge directly on you heat mat!!! Thisis like selotaping it to your basking bulb just to prove a point!
> 
> 
> !



Good point, we all must have forgotten that a sheet of newspaper is the best way to repel heat.

Selotaping a thermometer to your basking bulb would be a great way to compare it if you measured the temperature at the basking bulb, but seeing as you put a heatmat in a viv, then the substrate (quite often newspaper or kitchen roll) on top of it and then the reptile on top of that.. his experiment is pretty much spot on.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> you have your temperature gauge directly on you heat mat!!! Thisis like selotaping it to your basking bulb just to prove a point!
> 
> 
> I have 2 vivs and use 2 microclimate AHS heaters to control low temp and nightime temp! My basking bulbs allone keep the ambient temp absolutely perfect- regardless off summer or winter fluctuations in the home temp!
> ...


Yeah ok, updated pic









Heatmat is under the rub and themometer is over. Temp in the pic is much too high and it shows that a thermostat is needed. 

Thanks for your imput, :2thumb:

Ignore the peice of paper, nothing to do with this thread.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Still got the probe directly on the heat mat and to compound the issue you have it hermatically sealed in a tupperware box- go figure!!!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Ambersnake said:


> Still got the probe directly on the heat mat and to compound the issue you have it hermatically sealed in a tupperware box- go figure!!!!



it's under a RUB you crackpot.

Heat mat, RUB, snake / leo. That's what people do, or should everybody change the standard setup just so you can claim you don't need a thermostat?


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

ooowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

The experiment is invalid, because the temp probe has been placed directly on the heat mat and sealed in a 'greenhouse' not a viv. If you want to prove a point then go put it in a 'real' viv and show the world!!!!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

oh dear oh dear oh dear... you really should be wearing a foam helmet.

the experiment isn't invalid as thousands of people keep reptiles in RUB's and tubs. Plus, even in a viv they can reach silly temperatures if - like you already said - the thermometer is on top of heat mat, which it will be in any viv!

the only thing that's invalid in this thread is you.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

I agrre whole heartedly in the use of themostats where correctly used- but will dissagree with such inappropriate use of 'scientific' proof! The experiment/exhibit is flawed!! Most keepers will either keep their heat mat under thier viv or under a thick layer of substrate! Dont tell us that our vivs will automatically reach 115 degrees without a stat because the will not!!!

If you like to be scientific in your approach then please do so!!!!


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> Still got the probe directly on the heat mat and to compound the issue you have it hermatically sealed in a tupperware box- go figure!!!!


As you already know, you need to go figure. When your trying t0 be cocky and end up lookin like a pleb it makes your epic fail more funny. Go figure :2thumb:


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Meko said:


> the only thing that's invalid in this thread is you.


:lol2::lol2::no1:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

most keepers put the heatmat inside a wooden viv and use newspaper, even with 'deep' substrate it'll be for a snake that can bury under it,


you can't even see that the heat mat is under the RUB, you keep rattling on that it's inside it... so any of your opinions should be scrapped.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

southpython said:


> As you already know, you need to go figure. When your trying t0 be cocky and end up lookin like a pleb it makes your epic fail more funny. Go figure :2thumb:


If I were to tape my thermometer prob to any of my heating devices I could record very high temperatures!!!! The simple question is that of the ambient temperatures a 'un-statted' heater may give! These statistics have not been provided! So the experiment IS IN VALID!


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> If I were to tape my thermometer prob to any of my heating devices I could record very high temperatures!!!! The simple question is that of the ambient temperatures a 'un-statted' heater may give! These statistics have not been provided! So the experiment IS IN VALID! SO GO FIGURE YA ASS MEKO!!!


Did you not see the new picture i posted, the heatmat is UNDER the rub, and there us substrate over the thermometer. Burrowing species would be right where the tempreture probe would be. Therfore i am showing that without using a thermostat on a heat mat it can get far too hot. Therefore you need a heatmat. 

Get it into your head. Bloody hell. 

Cheers meko :2thumb:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Ambersnake said:


> If I were to tape my thermometer prob to any of my heating devices I could record very high temperatures!!!! The simple question is that of the ambient temperatures a 'un-statted' heater may give! These statistics have not been provided! So the experiment IS IN VALID! SO GO FIGURE YA ASS MEKO!!!



you don't use heat mats to get ambient temperatures you dumb bint. So why would you rattle on about it?

heat mats are used for a hot spot as per the experiment.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Sunshine!!! Ya the 'Bint' And if yav got a scientific degree in biology then you may see that the perameters of the experiment are flawed! Wont tell you again you fkkn arogant tool!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

your scientific degree in biology means shit. This isn't a biology experiment, it's simple common sense.

You use a heat mat you provide a hot spot, if use a heat mat in a viv or under a RUB for a snake or gecko then you're using the heat mat to provide belly heat. The snake or gecko is at ground level and therefor the heat is and should be measured at ground level.

the experiment shows exactly how you use a heat mat. Now i'm glad you're not going to tell us again, no point repeating yourself when you're talking out of your arse.
and the fact you're calling me 'fkkn arrogant tool' shows you've realised you're wrong.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

'fkkn arrogant tool' I rest my case!!!! LOL


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Also bored shitless of this thread! Meko if ya can't see it ya never will! Dh


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i rest my case, you realised you're wrong and off you toddle.

Plus, i'm pretty sure it isn't a degree in biology that would help in this 'experiment',


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> Also bored shitless of this thread! Meko if ya can't see it ya never will! Dh


Nah your full of shite, listen to meko, he knows what he talking about.


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

What ever 'MEKO' Big yawn, your the man, i've got no experience, you just too clever! BIG YAWN!!!!!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

'MEKO'? what's that all about? i'm not a fridge. As it clearly says, my name is Meko, just the one capital and no inverted commas. Fact is, you're wrong.

If you don't want to accept it here, go into the snakes and lizards section and try and make me look stupid; i'll just put my feet up and laugh at you failing.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

yes please come along to the lizard section and tell us all how to heat our leo rubs, just give me time to get my popcorn ready and find a comfy seat to observe your epic fail

:lol2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

if you look at most of their previous posts they're on beardie threads. Looks like they're trying to give beardie style advice to reptiles that need belly heat.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

shame, that would have been fun to watch.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i'd have loved it as well but they know they're wrong, couldn't admit it and logged off.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Ambersnake said:


> I agrre whole heartedly in the use of themostats where correctly used- but will dissagree with such inappropriate use of 'scientific' proof! The experiment/exhibit is flawed!! Most keepers will either keep their heat mat under thier viv or under a thick layer of substrate! Dont tell us that our vivs will automatically reach 115 degrees without a stat because the will not!!!


The heat mat instructions specifically state that less than a centimetre of substrate should be used, to reduce the risk of thermal blocking (resulting in heat buildup, resulting in *fire* that is a lot hotter than 115 degrees fahrenheit). 

Same goes for heat mats under vivs - you've got the choice of having it in the viv, where your animal will be *right on top of it* (at least mine would be; I don't have levitating leos, floating fat-tails or soaring snakes...) and the thermometer is correctly placed since your animal will be *right on top of it just like the probe* .... OR you can put it under the viv, where you can quite cheerfully thermally block it if it's sandwiched between viv and another insulator, or you can prop your vivarium up on legs and have a heat-mat-sized warm spot on the wood above, but not effectively heat the air in the vivarium. Oh, and it can STILL get hot enough to be a problem on that patch of heated wood.

And many, many, MANY people house their reptiles in faunariums or other similar plastic tubs (like the ventilated Really Useful Boxes) - here's the same thermometer experiment, using equipment exactly as you might be sold it from a reptile shop (minus the thermostat):
Reptile Forums - Ssthisto's Album: Think you don't need a thermostat?

Note: a Microclimate AHS != a heat mat.
A basking bulb != a heat mat.
Saying you can run either of those two things without a thermostat (which, in some situations, CAN be true - though the AHS has an intrinsic thermostat, to my understanding) does not automatically mean you can run a heat mat safely without one in all circumstances.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Meko said:


> i'd have loved it as well but they know they're wrong, couldn't admit it and logged off.


shame, i`m bored and a nice `debate` would cheer me up no end.


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## LadyYoruichi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ambersnake you fool. How can one person be so utterly stupid. *knock knock* Hellooo? Is there a brain in there???


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

May I just add something or enquire at least.

Have you carried out the same experiment with a heat gun?

I have noticed with my mat that the temp fluctuates and varies quite a bit from one end to the other as well as from top to bottom.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Have you carried out the same experiment with a heat gun?


I used a TN1 infrared thermometer to do my spot checks - yes, the temperature on a mat is not consistent across the whole mat.


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## eridu (Jul 3, 2010)

*Hehehe*

Ok let´s settle this...good reason for a thermostat...
It means you do not have to worry about your reps being hurt and you don´t have to keep turning things on and off!


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

However, to complicate things, thermostats can and do fail. They can be knocked and temperatures soar/plummet. I think, for what little it is worth, that there is no substitute for regular and careful checks on animals.


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## stern69 (Feb 12, 2009)

What's a thermostat?


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## kaikara (Aug 18, 2009)

Podarcis said:


> However, to complicate things, thermostats can and do fail. They can be knocked and temperatures soar/plummet. I think, for what little it is worth, that there is no substitute for regular and careful checks on animals.


Yes they can. Or they can be used wrong. A good example is a rack with multiple levels with the heat tape set-up in sequence instead of one long piece. You take the whole lot and plug it into a thermostat and put the probe on one of the levels. If the heat tape died on this probed level then the other levels would run at full power and probably cook the animals. There are not many people that have a thermostat for every level in this setup. 

If you want to be 100 percent covered a good suggestion would be to use a rheostat in conjunction with a thermostat. You adjust the heat source to a max temp with the rheostat (say 5 degrees above your intended max) then you hook it into the thermostat in sequence with the rheo. That way if the thermostat fails the heat source could only go to a max that is limited by the rheostat.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

stern69 said:


> What's a thermostat?


That which controls temperature.

Thermometer = will tell you "yup, it's too hot, that's why your reptile's not using the warm side of the tank."

Thermostat = Will stop the heat source from getting too hot, assuming it's set up correctly and working.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> Still got the probe directly on the heat mat and to compound the issue you have it hermatically sealed in a tupperware box- go figure!!!!


Your reptile would be directly on the heat mat? Reptiles generally don't float above them so this experiment is perfect.


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## stern69 (Feb 12, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> That which controls temperature.
> 
> Thermometer = will tell you "yup, it's too hot, that's why your reptile's not using the warm side of the tank."
> 
> Thermostat = Will stop the heat source from getting too hot, assuming it's set up correctly and working.


I was joking but thanks anyway! :2thumb:


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