# hawk or owl



## Ian.g

just thought I would ask who has what experience in either harris hawks or barn owls, I am looking to get into falconry either later this year or it will be next...I am in love with harris`s and barn owls, but which would make the best most reliable first bird? I do intend on free flying once the bird is fully manned and trained, a good friend of mine is a very keen falconer (well was up until a few years back) and he thinks you cant beat a harris hawk as a fantastic all round bird of prey....looking for lots of opinions though, so I can make a well informed decision.


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## LoveForLizards

Ian.g said:


> just thought I would ask who has what experience in either harris hawks or barn owls, I am looking to get into falconry either later this year or it will be next...I am in love with harris`s and barn owls, but which would make the best most reliable first bird? I do intend on free flying once the bird is fully manned and trained, a good friend of mine is a very keen falconer (well was up until a few years back) and he thinks you cant beat a harris hawk as a fantastic all round bird of prey....looking for lots of opinions though, so I can make a well informed decision.


Personally I'd recommend a Common Buzzard as a first bird. Fantastic all rounders, not great on the hunting front but I assume since you said about the Barn Owl, you aren't set on hunting anyway?
I am of the opinion that Harris Hawks should be given the opportunity and encouraged to hunt on a regular basis. I also believe it's easier to become 'sloppy' when dealing with a Harris Hawk as a first bird, but they are generally recommended mostly due to their docile nature and weight margin (which is pretty much the same with a Common Buzzard, but the Buzzard will most likely teach you more).
Edit: On the whole, hawks & buzzards are considered more reliable than owls when flying free, but in the end it comes down to your ability in weight management, training and handling. 

I wouldn't recommend a Barn Owl as a first bird if you intend to fly it. If you get set on an owl, Turkmenian and Bengal eagle owls are awesome for first birds. 

We keep both barnies and Harris', and whilst I wouldn't change my Harris for the _world_, I do sometimes wish I'd have stuck to my guns and got a CB as my first bird. : victory:


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## miss_ferret

it really depends what you want to do with the bird, if your happy with a bird that will just fly to your fist and not much more, then go for an owl. with the right bird and at a push, with a lot of training you might get one to chase a ground lure but thats about it with an owl. for anything more than that you need to be looking at hawks and falcons.

personally i wouldnt reccomened a barn owl as a first owl unless you do a lot of work before hand with weight control on other small birds. there hard work, stroppy and can have the attention spans of absent minded goldfish, especially in breeding season. trust me i own one :whistling2: i love him dearly but its like having an overdemanding todler at times...

while i only have my barn owl (and until i get more room that is all il have), i do love harrises. put the work in and there incredible birds. but if you go down that route, get one because thats what you want, not because they have a reputation as the beginners bird of choice, to be traded in after a year or so for something bigger and fancier. im not saying that this is what you'l do (far from it) but it breaks my heart sometimes when you see bird of prey ads and near enough every one is 'harris for sale' after someones bought one because they where told its the best bird for a beginner, done the bare minimum with it, and are now trading it on for a goshawk


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## Ian.g

thanks very much for the replies! I do not intend to hunt with the bird...but would like to do some lure work, mostly I just want a reliable calm bird that will fly to the fist, but has scope for other things should I want to start hunting etc, I adore the look of the harris hawks, and also the fact that they are good for both hunting and just general free flight work...but also have always had a very very soft spot for barnies ever since I got to meet a friend of mines, they were incredibly affectionate for birds of prey, and also very gentle...I did think about buzzards, but have been told they can be a lot noisier than harris hawks, and although noise is not a huge issue...I would rather get something that is not likely to annoy the neighbours lol...that said, I have heard barn owls can be very loud at times! especially in breeding season!.....plus I have no intention on getting a "stepping stone" bird, when/if I get one, it will be with the intention to keep for life!....would you mind letting me knowhow you keep your birds also, as I have heard many mixed opinions...some say seclusion with just part of the top of the "aviary" open....and others have said that a standard aviary type enclosure is fine....I have an outside toilet I was planning on converting to an indoor section...and taking the small window out to allow access to a reasonable sized flight that I would build on to it.


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## miss_ferret

personally, if you want to do lure work, id go for a harris. in terms of noise i cant really comment on harrises, but my barn owl screaches his little head off come breeding season. that said hes stopped since the wild tawneys stopped calling, could be a coincidence but he dosent start until they start either... given how loud they can be nobody notices a little barn owl noise :lol2:

my barn owl has a 10x6 indoor area (converted shed) with a 5x5 (aprox) outdoor aviary added on. i dont like seclusion aviarys (the all enclosed with one small window type things), i think it must make life really boring for the bird. given how much mine will sit in his outdoor bit (or at the window to it if its raining) and watch whats going on, i think he'd suffer in a seculsion type aviary. but that is my personal opinion. general rule is, give the bird the most space you possibly can : victory:


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## Ian.g

miss_ferret said:


> personally, if you want to do lure work, id go for a harris. in terms of noise i cant really comment on harrises, but my barn owl screaches his little head off come breeding season. that said hes stopped since the wild tawneys stopped calling, could be a coincidence but he dosent start until they start either... given how loud they can be nobody notices a little barn owl noise :lol2:
> 
> my barn owl has a 10x6 indoor area (converted shed) with a 5x5 (aprox) outdoor aviary added on. i dont like seclusion aviarys (the all enclosed with one small window type things), i think it must make life really boring for the bird. given how much mine will sit in his outdoor bit (or at the window to it if its raining) and watch whats going on, i think he'd suffer in a seculsion type aviary. but that is my personal opinion. general rule is, give the bird the most space you possibly can : victory:


yeah I think I am more leaning towards a harris at the moment...and as for the set up, I would prefer a set up similar to how you have described (although the indoor area would be smaller in my case)....I will obviously strive to give as much room as possible, as I would only be giving any decent amount of excersize at the weekends.


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## LoveForLizards

Definitely wouldn't recommend a Harris if you can only free fly on weekends.
Generally if you get a bird at the right age and man it down & house it appropriately, it shouldn't be noisy. 

Our hawks & falcon are always tethered except for when flying (or moulting) in an open-fronted mews, and tethered on the lawn when there's somebody to watch over them and the weather is decent. As far as owls go, I agree with miss_ferret on the seclusion aviary. I really don't see any need for them unless the bird is down to moult, young & separated from it's parents, or breeding.


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## Ian.g

LoveForLizards said:


> Definitely wouldn't recommend a Harris if you can only free fly on weekends.
> Generally if you get a bird at the right age and man it down & house it appropriately, it shouldn't be noisy.
> 
> Our hawks & falcon are always tethered except for when flying (or moulting) in an open-fronted mews, and tethered on the lawn when there's somebody to watch over them and the weather is decent. As far as owls go, I agree with miss_ferret on the seclusion aviary. I really don't see any need for them unless the bird is down to moult, young & separated from it's parents, or breeding.


hmmm....see my friend had a pair of Harris hawks, and he had his in open fronted mews, he used to fly them both at weekends...but also would fly them most evenings after workin the garden, just flying from the back fence to the fist for their food etc...he said that this should be enough to keep them happy and healthy, would you have any other suggestions on an appropriate bird if you feel this would not be enough for a Harris?


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## LoveForLizards

Ian.g said:


> hmmm....see my friend had a pair of Harris hawks, and he had his in open fronted mews, he used to fly them both at weekends...but also would fly them most evenings after workin the garden, just flying from the back fence to the fist for their food etc...he said that this should be enough to keep them happy and healthy, would you have any other suggestions on an appropriate bird if you feel this would not be enough for a Harris?


I personally don't think, and know most 'serious' falconers would agree with me, that harris hawks are weekend birds. I'd say one of the medium-sized owls would be more suited. :2thumb:
Harris hawks are very intelligent birds (err... most of the time. :whistling2 and I have found they thrive on enrichment, which is mostly from flying and hunting and changing flying routes around.


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## Ian.g

LoveForLizards said:


> I personally don't think, and know most 'serious' falconers would agree with me, that harris hawks are weekend birds. I'd say one of the medium-sized owls would be more suited. :2thumb:
> Harris hawks are very intelligent birds (err... most of the time. :whistling2 and I have found they thrive on enrichment, which is mostly from flying and hunting and changing flying routes around.


ok thanks for that, what owls would you suggest?


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## Zoo-Man

I agree with Meg (LoveForLizards). We are both big fans of the Common Buzzard & we both feel its a shame that more people aren't giving them a chance. 

But from what you have said about time to fly the bird, etc, I would say a Bengal Eagle Owl would be more suitable. Owls aren't very intelligent, compared to a Harris Hawk, so they aren't as likely to be as bored by spending longer in an aviary. Owls shoudln't be tethered for long periods though.


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## Ian.g

thanks for the info guys....in all honesty I really was set on a Harris, how much flying time would you say is needed to keep them happy?....I shall look into other owls also though, as I don`t want to get a bird and not give it adequate enrichment/time etc.


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## Whosthedaddy

I was toying with the idea like yourself Ian and joined a Falcon forum and it was made quite clear that there is quite the snobbery factor with some birds. It was also apparent from reading others experiences that they do take a hell of a lot of time to keep fit and this requires land and thats something thats not too abundant round here. Well, there is but main roads are a plenty and whether the farmers would be too keen on you asking for permission is another.

I think that you've got the right mentality of getting something that you want rather than a 'trainer' or stepping stone bird

Owl or falcon is something that you need to decide on depending on what you want to do with it from my understanding.

I'd like a falcon but worry that the quarry isn't proliferate enough near me making it hard and therefore detrimental on the bird.


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## Ian.g

Whosthedaddy said:


> I was toying with the idea like yourself Ian and joined a Falcon forum and it was made quite clear that there is quite the snobbery factor with some birds. It was also apparent from reading others experiences that they do take a hell of a lot of time to keep fit and this requires land and thats something thats not too abundant round here. Well, there is but main roads are a plenty and whether the farmers would be too keen on you asking for permission is another.
> 
> I think that you've got the right mentality of getting something that you want rather than a 'trainer' or stepping stone bird
> 
> Owl or falcon is something that you need to decide on depending on what you want to do with it from my understanding.
> 
> I'd like a falcon but worry that the quarry isn't proliferate enough near me making it hard and therefore detrimental on the bird.


yeah I have avoided the falconry forums, as from what my friend who had birds for many years has told me there can be quite a few high and mighty keepers, who are very quick to knock new people wanting to get into the hobby down, I am incredibly lucky where I live...I cross the road, go down an alley (in total from my house around 200 metres lol) and I am surrounded by 5 fields, and 3 large patches of woodland! 3 of the fields are very rarely used by anyone...and one patch of the woodland is also seldom used....from seeing all the photos of my friends old harris hawks, and hearing how his birds were and the work needed, I really felt I would be able to keep a Harris happy...but I am not going to dismiss other views etc, and will keep looking into the whole thing in great depth before making any decisions.


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## Whosthedaddy

I hear that Red Tails are also a nice alternative (if there is such a comparison) to a HH. I remember holding one as a child, only just found the pic again a few months back. I remember as a 9 year old how heavy it was on the glove!

We went to a few country fairs over the last couple of years and an owl group has been at them and was able to hold and handle a few different ones. They are all so different how you'd decide what one is beyond me as all have merits.


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## LoveForLizards

Ian.g said:


> ok thanks for that, what owls would you suggest?


Something along the lines of a Bengal or Turkmenian is what I'd usually recommend, but most of the medium-sized owls would be suitable. Meeting a few different breeders and their birds/chicks would be a good start, there's a lot of different species' around all with different characters and they'll be able to give you a better idea of upkeep, specifics to the species and so on. :2thumb: 



Ian.g said:


> thanks for the info guys....in all honesty I really was set on a Harris, how much flying time would you say is needed to keep them happy?....I shall look into other owls also though, as I don`t want to get a bird and not give it adequate enrichment/time etc.


I'd say 40minutes> every other day/4+ times a week or more would be about right for a Harris, weather permitting obviously.


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## Ian.g

LoveForLizards said:


> Something along the lines of a Bengal or Turkmenian is what I'd usually recommend, but most of the medium-sized owls would be suitable. Meeting a few different breeders and their birds/chicks would be a good start, there's a lot of different species' around all with different characters and they'll be able to give you a better idea of upkeep, specifics to the species and so on. :2thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say 40minutes> every other day/4+ times a week or more would be about right for a Harris, weather permitting obviously.


see I could do 40 min work with one every other day easily enough, in fact I would prob spend that much time (if not more) with one every day...all be it in the garden during the week, at weekends I could easily devote an hour and a half or more each day...when I said about only flying at weekends, I only meant in the sense of taking it out over the fields/woods for an hour or two.


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## Scoffa

Ian.g said:


> see I could do 40 min work with one every other day easily enough, in fact I would prob spend that much time (if not more) with one every day...all be it in the garden during the week, at weekends I could easily devote an hour and a half or more each day...when I said about only flying at weekends, I only meant in the sense of taking it out over the fields/woods for an hour or two.


A male Harris is the best bird suited to your situation. A female will become stroppy at some stage. But I don't believe the harris is the best bird to begin with. They are easy to train, not easy to keep from screaming, and great for maintaining some sort of fitness through the week whilst not being flown. The common buzzard or a redtail buzzard are the best beginners bird as you will learn a lot more about weight control, but they need to be flown hard every day to maintain the fitness.


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## Ian.g

Scoffa said:


> A male Harris is the best bird suited to your situation. A female will become stroppy at some stage. But I don't believe the harris is the best bird to begin with. They are easy to train, not easy to keep from screaming, and great for maintaining some sort of fitness through the week whilst not being flown. The common buzzard or a redtail buzzard are the best beginners bird as you will learn a lot more about weight control, but they need to be flown hard every day to maintain the fitness.


well I am very torn between a male harris and an eagle owl, really having a difficult time in choosing which to go for! from everything I have read the eagle owls are a much lazier bird, so may well be better suited in one respect...hmmmm decisions decisions!!!


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## anthony reilly

this is not a cheap thing to get into either..Plus if you were to just fly your bird in the back garden an feed it there then it can become a screaming bird an then it will get on your nerves and you will probably try to sell it and no1 will buy it because no1 wants a screaming bird. you really would need more than just 1-2 hours a day at weekends. Another thing to think about is what if you take your bird out flying an it catches something are you prepared to dispatch the quarry ? Am not having a dig btw just that i've seen it so many times people get birds, show interest for a few months an then it becomes a garden orniment. the best thing to do really is to find someone local who has been in the game a long time(best asking how long they've had birds as if they say 1year or a few months back away), ask if you can accompany then out in the field with them flying birds an see if its for you and if it is then pursue it further. Not much point if its gona be out in the field 2 days a week (why some people call them the weekend bird).


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