# Sexing by epiandrous fusillae - anyone any good?



## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Got some pretty naff pics. Could try and get more...

Grammostola pulchripes. Old owner bought from someone who they trust and who had sexed it as female, however "she" hadn't shed for her, so it could not be confirmed. I am torn from the very little I've read about this method of sexing.





























Now for the really really pants pics of a Brachypelma albopilosum. This one was handed into a shop without any info, many months ago. I have brought "her" home and would be interested to see what "she" is if at all possible.


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## sarahsaz (Jun 1, 2011)

i wouldnt like to say from these pics, the better method needs a picture of the same area but inside the moulted skin


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## 666 (Mar 18, 2009)

**

As already said the only way we can sex your tarantula is from his or her moulted skin if you have a moult put sum pics up.


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## gaz2374 (Aug 29, 2005)

Have you tried arachnoboards they seem to post pics like this all the time asking for help sexing


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Yep posted them on Arachnoboards and a couple of FB groups. So far people think the Chaco is female, which is great as it's the opposite of what I thought from what I'd read of sexing this way!


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

well, its only one of two guesses, you could have done the same yourself.

i dont understand the lack of patience and not doing it properly in a few weeks or months to be perfectly frank with you


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

As many probably know, I hate ventral sexing, it's pants  

But I'm gonna say, the chaco looks kinda male to me...


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> well, its only one of two guesses, you could have done the same yourself.
> 
> i dont understand the lack of patience and not doing it properly in a few weeks or months to be perfectly frank with you


I don't understand the animosity towards a bit of lighthearted chat to be honest either. I don't really care either way which the spiders are, I got some photos that I'd seen on other boards being used to have a little friendly banter and a guess on sex and put them up on a chat board. If it bothers you so much, it's not like it wasn't clear in the title. 

If we're being frank, I think some people could avoid looking if they have such a problem with it. As a newbie to spiders, unfortunately my psychic skills aren't up to scratch and I can't know in advance what a terrible faux pas I've made by bothering to share pictures in a polite and friendly manner, that the more experienced keepers prefer to turn their noses up at and pass (a wrong) judgement on the keeper for. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## gambitgareth (Sep 18, 2011)

im guessin - top one: female. bottom one: male ^_^

i think the implicit danger is that it can misdirect newcomers and also have a direct impact on the market.. (imo) 

other ventral indications can be looked at too for instance in some species (eg poecilotheria) the gap between book lungs is wider for females and closer together in males - but i should think you'd need a direct comparison. I would like to point out that i havent tested this information - its taken from an article fr here.. :lol2:


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks. Yep I posted these to compare answers to their more accurate shed sexing when they get round to shedding. It was a bit of a test really (too strong a term, I was being nosey), and a learning experience for me, as it has encouraged me to look closer at their anatomy and it was interesting reading into it and looking at others' photos and diagrams. 

I shall know not to post heathen "newbie" questions in future for fear of hot pokers and eternal damnation. I am off to say ten Hail Marys and beg forgiveness now. :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I wish I could help but I find my accuracy with ventral sexing smewhat hit and miss. 

However....the top one to me looks female. The lower? I wouldn't like to say either from the photo as I simply cannot say for sure whether there is an arch or not, or whether it's a trick of the light.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> I wish I could help but I find my accuracy with ventral sexing smewhat hit and miss.
> 
> However....the top one to me looks female. The lower? I wouldn't like to say either from the photo as I simply cannot say for sure whether there is an arch or not, or whether it's a trick of the light.


Errrmmmm where did u appear from lol. Havent seen you around for aggessss


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone, you're really kind! We shall see whether we can confirm any guesses when they moult!


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

KathyM said:


> I don't understand the animosity towards a bit of lighthearted chat to be honest either. I don't really care either way which the spiders are, I got some photos that I'd seen on other boards being used to have a little friendly banter and a guess on sex and put them up on a chat board. If it bothers you so much, it's not like it wasn't clear in the title.
> 
> If we're being frank, I think some people could avoid looking if they have such a problem with it. As a newbie to spiders, unfortunately my psychic skills aren't up to scratch and I can't know in advance what a terrible faux pas I've made by bothering to share pictures in a polite and friendly manner, that the more experienced keepers prefer to turn their noses up at and pass (a wrong) judgement on the keeper for. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


You know I don't quite understand the attitude you have, I've seen this on lots and lots of threads, I am a newbie to spiders just like yourself and when I bought mine (from the spider shop) I requested that they pick for me the biggest, nicest female they have however, I know for definate that sex of a T cannot be guaranteed and if my girl turns out to be a boy, well I am not in the least bothered as I have what I've always wanted, for ages now, my own big spider & I'm smitten for sure & to learn about T anatomy for myself there are good books to buy!




KathyM said:


> Thanks everyone, you're really kind! We shall see whether we can confirm any guesses when they moult!


Post pics once they moult, I always find these fascinating to look at when people post them, are you going to preserve your the moults from your T's and keep them?


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

KathyM said:


> I don't understand the animosity towards a bit of lighthearted chat to be honest either. I don't really care either way which the spiders are, I got some photos that I'd seen on other boards being used to have a little friendly banter and a guess on sex and put them up on a chat board. If it bothers you so much, it's not like it wasn't clear in the title.
> 
> If we're being frank, I think some people could avoid looking if they have such a problem with it. As a newbie to spiders, unfortunately my psychic skills aren't up to scratch and I can't know in advance what a terrible faux pas I've made by bothering to share pictures in a polite and friendly manner, that the more experienced keepers prefer to turn their noses up at and pass (a wrong) judgement on the keeper for. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


there was no animosity neither imparted nor implied.

just some facts delivered in a 'non fluffed out' manner so its simple to understand and so we dont get more 'presumed female for sale' threads turning up in the future and buyers (as you yourself were) getting very upset at the incorrect gender assessment of a spider


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## Jonb1982 (Feb 20, 2011)

Im pretty good at this to be honest, ive narrowed it down to either male or female but cant decide


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Jonb1982 said:


> Im pretty good at this to be honest, ive narrowed it down to either male or female but cant decide


One word: gynandromorph.


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## Jonb1982 (Feb 20, 2011)

Hedgewitch said:


> One word: gynandromorph.


Ladyboy?!


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## gambitgareth (Sep 18, 2011)

tv ts who'dve thunk it lol - but wait does my manbag make me a gynandromorph? :blush:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Errrmmmm where did u appear from lol. Havent seen you around for aggessss


I pop my head in now and again, I'm quite busy these days however so tend to leave the more generic beginner questions to the other forum denizens...I've shouted enough about aspects x,y,z of the hobby so I suppose it's time to let others have their say


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Jonb1982 said:


> Ladyboy?!


I asked you not to call me that in public...



gambitgareth said:


> tv ts who'dve thunk it lol - but wait does my manbag make me a gynandromorph? :blush:


No, it makes you many things, but not a gynandromorph...

---

For anyone who's not come across them before, gynandromorphs are invertebrates that are part male and part female. Due to the way they develop differently to us, instead of a mixture of male and female cells, you end up with an animal that is split in half or three-quarters-one-quarter one gender and the other.

Some pics of gynandromorph butterflies and moths:

http://www.amentsoc.org/images/gynandromorph.jpg
http://www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/images/jpegs/Papilionidae/Pa glaucus gynandromorph2.jpg

BBC Nature - A rare he-she butterfly is born in London's NHM

And a tarantula example (_Poecilotheria ornata_)
Poecilotheria ornata (gynandromoph)

Theraphosidae - Selenocosmiinae - Poecilotheria ornata (gynandromorph)


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## gambitgareth (Sep 18, 2011)

tbh I just thought a gynandromorph was an animal that 'appeared' to be both male and female - but i suppose that 'understanding things as they appear' would be an apt definition of what science actually is. 

the reason im being pedantic is because i think my manbag does make me a gynandromorph - and I therefore deserve legal protections under international law ! gynandromorphs unite!!!:lol2:


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

gambitgareth said:


> gynandromorphs unite!!!:lol2:


Technically they could, if they were bendy enough :lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> I pop my head in now and again, I'm quite busy these days however so tend to leave the more generic beginner questions to the other forum denizens...I've shouted enough about aspects x,y,z of the hobby so I suppose it's time to let others have their say


Right what have you done with Grant lol


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## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Hedgewitch said:


> As many probably know, I hate ventral sexing, it's pants
> 
> But I'm gonna say, the chaco looks kinda male to me...


Me too. If I wanted a male for breeding I'd probably buy it on a hunch that might be incorrect.


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