# Building a Dart frog vivarium



## Reptitat (Nov 28, 2013)

I have a large vivarium which I used for my tortoises until I knew it was unsuitable for them, so now i'm turning into a Dart frog enclosure. It's wooden, which little ventilation so I know it's suitable and i'm guessing it stays humid. 
I bought expanding foam to make a custom background so i'll be doing that this weekend. I was wondering if you're supposed to glue the substrate onto the expanding foam? And if you have any pictures of your custom setups, that would be so helpful. 
Forgot to add, how do you carve the expanding foam?
Thank you.


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

Reptitat said:


> It's wooden


you realise frogs need to get wet, right?


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## Reptitat (Nov 28, 2013)

Can't wood hold in humid? I'm pretty sure it does..


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Yep, it holds humidity in and then rots in front of your very eyes. Glueing substrate on to foam is the least of your worries- wood vivs are a big no no with darts. Either get a glass viv or put something else in the wood one.


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

it's not the humidity, it the fact you're soaking wood two-three times a day - wood and water don't generally mix because it tends to rot etc .. when was the last time you saw a dart frog vivarium made out of wood??


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

dam .. beat me to it!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Reptitat said:


> It's wooden, which little ventilation so* I know it's suitable* and i'm guessing it stays humid.


.....

anyways, put that to one side

i did write a massive list out but hit backspace by accident, lets start at,

What type of dart frog are you interested in getting ?


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## Reptitat (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm not sure yet.. I was thinking Dendrobates azureus, but still looking..


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

my advice, find a frog that you like, then research the fook out of it till your little peepers hurt, and all you can think about is nailing an enclosure for it to go into. (i spend all day thinking, i send stu random pictures of habitats to look at lol)

Once, you've picked a frog, you'll be needing to buy a tank thats suitable for them to go in, Stu (soundstounite) has been talking alot about azzies recently, hopefully he'll pop by when he has some spare time.

You'll need to nail the culturing of not only their primary food source (fruit flies) but may want to look into culturing others aswell to provide a varied diet. you'll also need to get yourself some springtails and woodlice to clean up your viv if you are going to have it live planted. the frogs will also eat these too.

but seriously, put the wooden tank away for something else, and forget about getting frogs for a few months and get some research under your belt. I wish i had been proper into darts when i started building, was set on tree frogs like, had my viv set up for a couple of months and fell in love with leucs and gave in and bought some, im now currently raising three more aha


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## Reptitat (Nov 28, 2013)

I wasn't planning to get frogs until next February-March, and i'm currently doing research now and have been since september. Would a Exo Terra work? I have a few for my Crested Geckos, but would I be able to modify it for a dart frog? If so, what size? :lol:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Reptitat said:


> I wasn't planning to get frogs until next February-March, and i'm currently doing research now and have been since september. Would a Exo Terra work? I have a few for my Crested Geckos, but would I be able to modify it for a dart frog? If so, what size? :lol:


You can, I have several although they take some modding such as adding a glass lid with a smaller mesh vent, sorting out the front mesh and doors so they're fruit fly proof and making a false bottom for drainage. You might just be best off buying an ENT style viv with a false bottom.
As for size most species are more than happy in a pair in 40 cubes, I'm a big fan of 60x40x40 but if you can provide 60 height many species will be glad of it. I shudder to think what my leucs would be capable of if I could give them a tank with huge amounts of height .


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

as someone who has an exo, dont lol, i'd suggest getting a tank from DMS Vivaria, you can get it with or without glass false bottom, i'd go for without and put in an egg crate false bottom but build it in so that there is a gully at the front, my leucs love going down to this and sitting in the water (i did a method of putting pebbles on net curtain, peeling it back, putting leca in behind, laying curtain back over this and then adding soil ontop). but the choice is yours tbh depending on what you want the look etc.

btw Jon, local pet shop had that massive 90x45x90 exo on sale, so nearly bought it for a leuc build aha


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> as someone who has an exo, dont lol, i'd suggest getting a tank from DMS Vivaria, you can get it with or without glass false bottom, i'd go for without and put in an egg crate false bottom but build it in so that there is a gully at the front, my leucs love going down to this and sitting in the water (i did a method of putting pebbles on net curtain, peeling it back, putting leca in behind, laying curtain back over this and then adding soil ontop). but the choice is yours tbh depending on what you want the look etc.
> 
> btw Jon, local pet shop had that massive 90x45x90 exo on sale, so nearly bought it for a leuc build aha


I'm actually thinking of one for an aquatic garter snake palaudarium build. Don't tell the wife .


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

ronnyjodes said:


> I'm actually thinking of one for an aquatic garter snake palaudarium build. Don't tell the wife .


well, if you decided to get facebook, we'd not have this problem....

btw jon clicked that link in you addy for planted habitats it has been hacked in the name of allah

Amphibiancare.com >> An Online Amphibian and Reptile Information Resource >> Shedd Aquarium and Brookfield Zoo Reptile House Chicago


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Meefloaf said:


> well, if you decided to get facebook, we'd not have this problem....
> 
> btw jon clicked that link in you addy for planted habitats it has been hacked in the name of allah
> 
> Amphibiancare.com >> An Online Amphibian and Reptile Information Resource >> Shedd Aquarium and Brookfield Zoo Reptile House Chicago


Haha whether I have Facebook or not I'll still get told off for planning builds .

Oh craphats. I'll tell the gaffer.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

ronnyjodes said:


> You can, I have several although they take some modding such as adding a glass lid with a smaller mesh vent, sorting out the front mesh and doors so they're fruit fly proof and making a false bottom for drainage. You might just be best off buying an ENT style viv with a false bottom.
> As for size most species are more than happy in a pair in 40 cubes, I'm a big fan of 60x40x40 but if you can provide 60 height many species will be glad of it. I shudder to think what my leucs would be capable of if I could give them a tank with huge amounts of height .


Jonny,I've always been as straight as I can with everyone,so I know you'll take this in the right way,but we just can't be advocating a pr of tincs in a 40 cube,I know you mate, I suspect i have a damn good idea of how you keep frogs:notworthy:,and I admire that!!I think there is a slip here,tiredness bla bla,I'm there dude shattered,but this is real important. 

A pr of azzie wont "DO" in a 40cube not to adult hood,they just will not get where they should be(or one of them won't),it just isn't enough floor space. OP said that was his pref,so I really can't do other than contradict,just in case he goes there.There is nowt personal here,I know it's one line and you have stated preference. But I just wouldn't put any of the larger darts especially a tinc with their food needs in a 40.


OP forget the wood, go glass,or possibly polycarb,but having no experience of the latter,glass would be my choice,all else I agree with pretty much,hammer the food get it down,then fink froggies:2thumb:

Lads I really am cream crackered,this is the post before sleep.Jon,I had to say what i have,hope ...really hope you understand why.It's written word,not us all mulling through stuff together,where we can get our selves over. We primarily deal with new guys,i know where you are at,but he doesn't yet:lol2:

seeya

Stu


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Sorry fella, when I said most species I wasn't referring to azzies, I'd kinda glazed over the bit where the OP mentioned them tbh :blush:.

When I'm saying 40 cubes I'm talking a pair of auratus, tricolors, galacs- something reasonably terrestrial. That's kinda what I was getting at by saying go 60x40x40 which is what my leucs are in. If I was going azzies or some of the bigger tincs I'd say a 40x40 base and a 60 height would be the bare minimum but 60 wide would be even better. Those tincs sure do know how to use space .

Sorry for any confusion caused, I think I need my bed : victory:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

No worries bro,I know how you care for your aminals,its very evident.I was more concerned about not 'causing offence to someone I respect.
wouldn't be me if I didn't pop this in though:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Ha and we all know i've got a bee in my bonnet about small tanks too:blush:
cheers for taking it how it was meant Jon:notworthy:

Ya know I'm starting to feel that a good yardstick to gauge tank size to species is if one can tank raise,it seems a bit off the wall,but I figure if a little guy can find enough food and space,straight ootw, thereby implying no stress to him,then that gives a good indicator that the viv is big enough. What I'm starting to see using that as a ball park,is I should of built bigger,so even a 50x50 footprint is on the small side for tincs,just a pair at that. It is of note that I don't seem to be able to rear an SB,from 3 adults,on that 50sq base,but with 5 adult pan specials on a 60sqcm base,I can do it,both vivs 40 high. i'm utterly convinced its down to the amount of substrate/floor area and the inherent food there in.

cheers jonny

Stu


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> No worries bro,I know how you care for your aminals,its very evident.I was more concerned about not 'causing offence to someone I respect.
> wouldn't be me if I didn't pop this in though:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> 
> ...


Stu, I knew exactly what you meant fella, no offence was taken. Had I actually been awake at the time I could have probably made my original post a bit clearer :lol2:.

I think the thing is with dart keeping perceptions of what works and what doesn't are changing all the time- I was talking to Ade and Adam at the last BAKS about my microspots finally coming out of their shells and them basically saying to go against the often touted way of heavily planting auratus vivs and going with minimal planting to make them bolder. We need to experiment constantly whilst making sure we're doing the best for our frogs. I mean, if we don't try these things out, who will? I don't think it will be long before 50x50x50 or 50x40x40 will start taking over from 40 cubes as the "go to" tanks for darts.

I take it you don't have any probs rearing your mysties in that 2 foot cube monster that they're in?

No probs bro :notworthy:

Jon


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Got one in there now jon,closing on adult size,he seems to have grown faster than the pulled ones,but we have tried to not let him carry too many,that said 51/2months in the ditch is a big deal i suspect,before they ever get to land,but there are tads in there as we speak.ha ha don't I love 2'cubs,if only for a bigger room matee now i'd have em all like that,even for the pums. it's bonkers when you see a 2'cube against the other sizes,we use. mind moving the *** once the background is in especially the next two,is no bloody fun at all!! Won't I be glad when this next one is in place,it's almost head height:gasp: in the rack.

Just had to go there didn't I...DOH:bash::bash:

best

Stu


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