# Fighting fish



## Doogerie (Jul 6, 2007)

So i saw in an world of water (behind Grovelands near Reading) they are selling fighting fish I was wondering how easy are they to keep (I am not planing to use them as fighters I just think that they look amazing) is there anyway to breed them


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

fighting fish are lovely, but must be kept singley. You cannot have more than one male per tank as they will simply fight to the death.

The dont do well with other fish in general as they are prone to being nipped and chased. They can however be kept with very small fish such as neon tetra without too much trouble. 

They are not very hardy fish so getting, and keeping, you water right is an absolute must.

Many people here keep 'Betta cubes' a small tank, or bioorb with just a single fighter and nothing else.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Frostpaw said:


> fighting fish are lovely, but must be kept singley. You cannot have more than one male per tank as they will simply fight to the death.
> 
> The dont do well with other fish in general as they are prone to being nipped and chased. *They can however be kept with very small fish such as neon tetra without too much trouble.*
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with you FP. 

Take a look at the required water conditions of these two species. It isn't a good mix at all really. Also, you can keep groups of females together. I have a harem of six females, so it's incorrect that they have to be kept singularly. You should only keep males singularly or with a harem of females in a suitable size and aquascaped tank. This will stop males fighting and damaging one another. 

Doogerie, if you want to see a well written and informative care sheet for this species start here :-

Betta splendens (Siamese Fighting Fish) — Seriously Fish

I've linked to Seriously fish because the authors of the care sheets have actually kept the fish and have actively sought info from well known, respected aquarists when publishing them rather than regurgitating rubbish read on the internet. 

Biorbs make a very bad choice of aquarium for any fish. The small surface area being the problem. They have been designed as a lifestyle product for fans of interior design. They are not designed with the needs of fish in mind.


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## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

i have kept a pair of these in a small tank for almost 2 years now and had no problems and i think the issue most people have is they put a heater in the water, these are best kept at room temp i have a small tank on my kitchen table with a good little filer (not a massivly strong current) and no heater, also keep some plantes so the female had hide if needed


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

I know a lot of people/family that keep theese and a small tank is fine for theese but not too small as people think they don't move about but they do so you should ask the shop you are buying the tank from if it is fine for this type of fish.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> i have kept a pair of these in a small tank for almost 2 years now and had no problems and i think the issue most people have is they put a heater in the water, these are best kept at room temp i have a small tank on my kitchen table with a good little filer (not a massivly strong current) and no heater, also keep some plantes so the female had hide if needed


I agree that filters with strong flows and a lot of disturbance at the surface are unsuitablefor fighting fish. But considering they originate from a part of the world where the water temperature is around the 28c mark, I'm at a loss as to why you think problems would occur from heating the tank of this tropical fish species? Mine are housed at 27c without issue. 

Does your male not constantly badger your single female?



Mcadam1222 said:


> I know a lot of people/family that keep theese and a small tank is fine for theese but not too small as people think they don't move about but they do so you should ask the shop you are buying the tank from if it is fine for this type of fish.


Yep, they deserve swimming space as they can be active. Don't you think that people should ignore the advise from shops that sell tanks which are too small or have the wrong type of integrated filter for Bettas though? Many shops do sell innapropriate tanks for the fish they sell after all.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> i have kept a pair of these in a small tank for almost 2 years now and had no problems and* i think the issue most people have is they put a heater in the water, these are best kept at room temp* i have a small tank on my kitchen table with a good little filer (not a massivly strong current) and no heater, also keep some plantes so the female had hide if needed





Mynki said:


> But considering they originate from a part of the world where the water temperature is around the 28c mark, I'm at a loss as to why you think problems would occur from heating the tank of this tropical fish species? Mine are housed at 27c without issue.


Something I've noticed recently ["recently" being the last couple of years] is the number of people saying fighters "can be kept at room temperature and actually do better that way". 

Every single book and article I read on _Betta splendens _when I kept them emphasised their love of comparatively warmer temperatures to many tropical fish.

Not having a go, just an observation.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

daftlassieEmma said:


> Every single book and article I read on _Betta splendens _when I kept them emphasised their love of comparatively warmer temperatures to many tropical fish.
> 
> Not having a go, just an observation.


Me too. I believe this is another internet rumour being regurgitated over and over again. Personally I'd keep them in the high 20's. After all, not is this the temperature of their native range but it's the water temperature range of the far eastern farms where they are bred. To me it's just logical and common sense to mirror an animals native environment. 

They'll be more susceptible to stress and disease if the temperatures are too low.


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

Mynki said:


> I agree that filters with strong flows and a lot of disturbance at the surface are unsuitablefor fighting fish. But considering they originate from a part of the world where the water temperature is around the 28c mark, I'm at a loss as to why you think problems would occur from heating the tank of this tropical fish species? Mine are housed at 27c without issue.
> 
> Does your male not constantly badger your single female?
> 
> ...


I understand what you mean but if you done a bit of research and asked in a good shop then you would have an idea if the person was talking crap or new what they were talking about.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Mcadam1222 said:


> I understand what you mean but if you done a bit of research and asked in a good shop then you would have an idea if the person was talking crap or new what they were talking about.


I've worked in an LFS. I've worked in one of the largest importers of ornamental fish in the UK. And I currently own an aquatics related business. But more importantly than all of that, I've actually kept and bred fish, including Betta splendens. 

I couldn't take any shop that said keep a Betta splendens at room temperature seriously. They may survive. They will not thrive and low temperatures will subject them to stress, which means an increased chance of disease and premature death. 

The caresheet I linked too earlier has been produced by some of the most respected aquarists in the UK. Check the bottom of it and it even details the sources it's referenced. 

Sadly, there are some people working in LFS which either don't have the knowledge they should, or just don't care that they are selling an unsuitable tank. Also, how would a beginner know if the LFS staff were talking crap or not?

Somebody very close to me is the sales manager of a major wholesaler. Recently they had a call from a pet shop owner asking how to sex guppies. Need I say more?


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## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

Mynki said:


> I've worked in an LFS. I've worked in one of the largest importers of ornamental fish in the UK. And I currently own an aquatics related business. But more importantly than all of that, I've actually kept and bred fish, including Betta splendens.
> 
> I couldn't take any shop that said keep a Betta splendens at room temperature seriously. They may survive. They will not thrive and low temperatures will subject them to stress, which means an increased chance of disease and premature death.
> 
> ...


I did not say they live at room temperature?


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Mynki said:


> Biorbs make a very bad choice of aquarium for any fish. *The small surface area being the problem. *They have been designed as a lifestyle product for fans of interior design. They are not designed with the needs of fish in mind.


I agree with this generally,but for a single fish with a labyrinth organ,would be fine.


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## Gt Turbo (Feb 9, 2011)

I think the room temperature issue affect the bettas by causing them to be less active and effectively seem more placid. 

However, as someone who has also kept bettas and who lives in a temperate country (average temp of 28) I would definitely like to dispel that as a rumour.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Berber King said:


> I agree with this generally,but for a single fish with a labyrinth organ,would be fine.


It would survive for sure. But due to the labyrinth organ the same would be true of a 2 litre container. I believe a more conventional shaped tank would be better though as they provide more swimming space, with a similar sized footprint. 




Gt Turbo said:


> I think the room temperature issue affect the bettas by causing them to be less active and effectively seem more placid.
> 
> However, as someone who has also kept bettas and who lives in a temperate country (average temp of 28) I would definitely like to dispel that as a rumour.


I asked the person who thinks it's OK to keep Bettas at room temperature if the male harrased the female. He says he's had no problems so I assume not. I believe this will be because the fish is lethargic due to innapropriare conditions and so isn't displaying natural behaviour. i.e harrassing the female constantly!


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## RescueCat (Aug 13, 2011)

My Betta is my first fish (excluding the one I got from [email protected] without realising it was sick, and having it pass away within 24 hours!), and he's been pretty easy to care for, if I say so. It's just about having a routine and sticking to it, with cleaning and checking levels and such. I also keep snails in with him!


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## Moscowlynny (Jul 1, 2012)

I love my male fighter, have him in a 200l tank at 25 degrees. He's housed with 3 female fighters and about 30 other fish including glass catfish, balloon mollies, tetras, shrimp, gouramis and a small blue lobster. He is fine, full of life and gets on fine with the others. Has no nipped fins and doesn't harass anything else


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

Moscowlynny said:


> I love my male fighter, have him in a 200l tank at 25 degrees. He's housed with 3 female fighters and about 30 other fish including glass catfish, balloon mollies, tetras, shrimp, gouramis and a small blue lobster. He is fine, full of life and gets on fine with the others. Has no nipped fins and doesn't harass anything else


A bit unrelated, bit I thought mollies only thrived in slightly salty water?


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moony14 said:


> A bit unrelated, bit I thought mollies only thrived in slightly salty water?


They do. They survive in hard, alkaline water. Mollies and tetras are a very bad match. Lobsters can and will kill and eat your fish if they get the chance. The stocklist you have read is far from ideal. Especially if you want your fish to thrive and not just survive. :/


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## Moscowlynny (Jul 1, 2012)

As with my other two blue lobsters, once they get to a decent size, they get separated into a bigger tank where they can't cause damage to fish, as I stated this one is young. He's been in my community tank for 3 months now and is fine, hasn't gone for any fish. My balloon mollies and tetras have also lived together since the beginning with no fatalities. They're all growing, feeding and in the case of the mollies have produced many fry which are doing well


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## YOGI BEAR (Jun 3, 2012)

they can live well with african dwarf frogs


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

ive heard they do well with malawi cichlids and oscars too Yogi Bear!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moscowlynny said:


> As with my other two blue lobsters, once they get to a decent size, they get separated into a bigger tank where they can't cause damage to fish, as I stated this one is young. He's been in my community tank for 3 months now and is fine, hasn't gone for any fish. My balloon mollies and tetras have also lived together since the beginning with no fatalities. They're all growing, feeding and in the case of the mollies have produced many fry which are doing well


The thing is, even small crayfish will damage and kill fish. They can live in the same tank for months before they manage to successfully catch and kill one. Or it can be very soon after introduction. So it is a bad mix.

There is a huge difference between having your fish live together for a few months and surviving than there is for them living for years and thriving.

If you look at the ideal water conditions for mollies and for tetras they are about as different as you can get in a freshwater tank. One requires soft acidic water to thrive and the other brackish.

So although you may think they're OK, it's unlikely they'll live as long as they should. It's a very poor choice of stocking you have. My comments are there to prevent people making the same mistakes, rather than being critical of you personally.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Frostpaw said:


> ive heard they do well with malawi cichlids and oscars too Yogi Bear!


Whoever told you that isn't very clued up. There are many instances where they have killed and eaten fish. Even larger species, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.


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## SwampyK (Jan 28, 2012)

i had a trio of bettas in my 200l community tank for several years. it contained platies, tetras, gourami, corydoras cats, a synodontis and a massive plec. the male never showed any signs of extreme agression, and the male even built a bubblenest at one point, though no fry were produced.


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## YOGI BEAR (Jun 3, 2012)

Frostpaw said:


> ive heard they do well with malawi cichlids and oscars too Yogi Bear!


sorry this confused me it's clearly sarcasm, are you talking about the betta, the frog or the cray fish

and just to make sure you understood i mean't betta and frog combo which can work very well


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## Frostpaw (May 10, 2010)

ahh i thought YOU where begins sarcastic about the frogs mixing with little species...!

Yeah i was being sarcastic too


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## JumperBoy (Jul 3, 2010)

Frostpaw said:


> *ive heard they do well with malawi cichlids and oscars too Yogi Bear!*
> 
> 
> Mynki said:
> ...


There you go i've put the sarcasm in bold for you...:whistling2:


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## JumperBoy (Jul 3, 2010)

YOGI BEAR said:


> sorry this confused me it's clearly sarcasm, are you talking about the betta, the frog or the cray fish
> 
> and just to make sure you understood *i mean't betta and frog combo which can work very well*


:lol2:


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## YOGI BEAR (Jun 3, 2012)

JumperBoy said:


> :lol2:


that bit wasn't sarcasm, lots of people have done it including myself, the frog never showed any interest in the betta and vice versa


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

I have to agree with yogi bear here, if you go on betta forums- especially american ones you will see the combo can work really well


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