# Ragdolls ... Im in love (Pic Heavy)



## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

We have 2 new additions to our family ... Purdi and Toddi, my Aunties 3 month old ragdolls. 
Super cute but Purdi, the little girl is full of attitude !
Toddi is way more laid back and chilled out.
Would love to see other peoples Ragdolls. 
:flrt:
Here they are:










































































































My sister in law is taking care of 2 Ragdolls, Bo and Zoe, who are looking for new homes.


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## xvickyx (Jul 21, 2009)

They are gorgeous   I love them!


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Those little white mittens on the older two make me go all funny inside :flrt: Absolutely gorgeous.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Cute kittens, is the grey and white one a cross?


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Cute kittens, is the grey and white one a cross?


Ahhhh no. The grey and white one (Toddi) is one of only 9 (i think she said 9 or maybe 15) solid ragdolls in the country ... hence his price.
They were bred by Tumbledown Ragdolls and it explains it all on there.
Doesnt mean much to me im afraid as they could be back yard moggies to me, they are still adorable  
x


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

why are bo and zo looking for new homes? they are adorable! *starts working on bf to steal them away :flrt:*


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Toddi is absolutely wonderful I love ragdolls and have a cat that definately has ragdoll in him somewhere and I would love to have one like Toddi purdi is really sweet too but Toddi has won my heart completely the older two are especially cute as well I will get one of these one day


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

harlequin said:


> why are bo and zo looking for new homes? they are adorable! *starts working on bf to steal them away :flrt:*


Bo and Zoe belonged to my sister in law's, friends Dad. He had to go into sheltered accomadation that doesnt allow pets so she agreed to have them until they could be found a new home. She would keep them apart from the fact she is never home and these guys need lots of attention and she simply isnt there to give it and its unfair on them. I cant have them as I am alredy having to foster my animals out due to my current living arrangements but if I had my own place I would.




sammy1969 said:


> Toddi is absolutely wonderful I love ragdolls and have a cat that definately has ragdoll in him somewhere and I would love to have one like Toddi purdi is really sweet too but Toddi has won my heart completely the older two are especially cute as well I will get one of these one day


Yes, Toddi got me too. He is so lovely and gentle. Cant wait to see what he will look like when he's a big boy. x


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Me too you will have to keep us up to date with piccies and lots of them lol just so I can drool and plot how i can come and steal him on my wheelchair lol


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Yes of couse  He's only been here since saturday and already have over 300 photos of him 
x


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

cool cant wait to see more of him as he grows up he is so cute and i am in love lol


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## animalmad69 (Nov 2, 2010)

im in love with zoe/bo if i lived closer, i would be there trying to take them home, what are their ages ?:flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I am looking to get a ragdoll or two this coming year, I would love 2 boys, but price restricts getting two in one go really


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

most decent breeders will give you a discount for taking two.

they are addictive though, and its hard to stop at a couple.................

:lol2:

what have the ragdolls been crossed with to give the blue bicolour kitten? 
and what has it been registered as with the gccf? i wasnt aware that they were allowing outcrossing in raggies since it was done to bring the red/tabby series in and choc and lilac back.
think that stopped years ago.
http://www.gccfcats.org/regpols/ragregpol.pdf


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> most decent breeders will give you a discount for taking two.
> 
> they are addictive though, and its hard to stop at a couple.................
> 
> ...


 
Introducing Solid Ragdoll Cats,


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i thought we already had them, but called ragamuffins in the us? but not standardised over here?


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, I always thought they were called ragamuffins...... One of the reasons I think my Lou has raggie in him is that he looks a LOT like some of the ragamuffins I've seen (and has the normal raggie temperment).


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

can find no reference to these solid raggies on the breed club websites nor the gccf site.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

animalmad69 said:


> im in love with zoe/bo if i lived closer, i would be there trying to take them home, what are their ages ?:flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt:


Bo and Zoe are 2 years old. x



pigglywiggly said:


> most decent breeders will give you a discount for taking two.
> 
> they are addictive though, and its hard to stop at a couple.................
> 
> ...





pigglywiggly said:


> can find no reference to these solid raggies on the breed club websites nor the gccf site.


No cross. Toddi is a solid ragdoll 
x


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Purdi and Toddi as babies are on here 
(same link as shell's)
Introducing Solid Ragdoll Cats,

x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> i thought we already had them, but called ragamuffins in the us? but not standardised over here?


I thought he was a Ragamuffin too when I opened the thread! Is he registered with GCCF or TICA or both, in which case what is he registered as with the GCCF?

Beautiful kittens by the way! :flrt:


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

beautiful cats i love ragdolls allways have since i was a kid:flrt:


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

I love them Tara, seriously !!! :mf_dribble:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

feorag said:


> I thought he was a Ragamuffin too when I opened the thread! Is he registered with GCCF or TICA or both, in which case what is he registered as with the GCCF?
> 
> Beautiful kittens by the way! :flrt:


thats what i was asking, i`ve had ragdolls for 10 years and i`ve never seen any like that.

and if you`re breeding raggies solid ones arnt just going to appear in a litter of blue-eyed colourpointed kittens, something else must have been put in somewhere in the background.

would be very interested to see the papers for them.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Your best to query it with tumbledown . Im sure she will be more than happy to advise, though as per my previous link, it does explain a little on there
x


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

so you havnt got papers with them then?
we just want to know what they are regisitered as, if they are registered.

i know how strict the gccf are with their registration policies, as i have cats that are from american imported lines outcrossed to persian way back to bring in the red and tortie colours, and have a cat from english outcrossing to a siamese to give the tabby colour.
the persians and siamese have to be an approved colour and not have silvers etc in their background, or the offpring will not be classed as ragoll 5 generations down.
think the outcrossing was stopped in 2004 though?

i`m personally interested as i have a house full of raggies and have kept them for 10 years.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> so you havnt got papers with them then?
> we just want to know what they are regisitered as, if they are registered.
> 
> i know how strict the gccf are with their registration policies, as i have cats that are from american imported lines outcrossed to persian way back to bring in the red and tortie colours, and have a cat from english outcrossing to a siamese to give the tabby colour.
> ...


If you check the first post again they are not mine, they belong to my aunt and yes she has their papers and other documentation from the breeder.

I cant answer your questions as I dont know, thats why I put the link to the woman who bred them and if you have Ragdolls and are interested in further information about the solid's etc, then the best person to contact is her.

My aunt didnt buy him for being a solid, she bought him as she simply wanted him and his sister to be together and she wanted ragdolls. Her other moggies are common a garden british domestic short hair.

Like I said you are best to check with tumbledown, im sure she will be more than happy to help.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> thats what i was asking, i`ve had ragdolls for 10 years and i`ve never seen any like that.
> 
> and if you`re breeding raggies solid ones arnt just going to appear in a litter of blue-eyed colourpointed kittens, something else must have been put in somewhere in the background.
> 
> would be very interested to see the papers for them.


On the link I posted you can see thier parents and the other kitten in the litter was black as far as I know. There were only 3 in the litter as far as I am aware.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> thats what i was asking, i`ve had ragdolls for 10 years and i`ve never seen any like that.
> 
> and if you`re breeding raggies solid ones arnt just going to appear in a litter of blue-eyed colourpointed kittens, something else must have been put in somewhere in the background.
> 
> would be very interested to see the papers for them.


here are some pics, and info
Introducing Solid Ragdoll Cats,

or here for more info
http://www.solidragdolls.co.uk/


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> here are some pics, and info
> Introducing Solid Ragdoll Cats,


This is the link I put up earlier and also the place he came from
You can see him and his sister and brother on that page.
T


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

taraliz said:


> This is the link I put up earlier and also the place he came from
> You can see him and his sister and brother on that page.
> T


I know, hence posting it, with her comment so the OP can look it up herself.
its all copywrited so i cannot copy and paste info.pics


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i cant get the website to load and scroll properly, 
maybe i`ll phone the gccf and ask them wether the registration rules have been changed, they are usually very helpful.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I think you're both missing the point - what Piggly is saying is that we are not disputing that solid Ragdoll cats are now being bred in this country, but to our knowledge, they are not Ragdolls, they are Ragamuffins.

The Ragdoll Standard of Points says a Ragdoll is a pointed cat, so anything that isn't pointed isn't a Ragdoll - it's a Ragamuffin - a breed created by crossing pointed Ragdolls with other cats to produce solid colours.

I don't breed Ragdolls, but as far as I am aware solid Ragdolls are registered and known as Ragamuffins.

Semantics I know, but it does confuse people when someone says they have a Ragdoll that we can see from the photograph isn't a Ragdoll.

That's the reason why Piggly and I asked what breed she was registered as on her Registration Certificate.



pigglywiggly said:


> maybe i`ll phone the gccf and ask them wether the registration rules have been changed, they are usually very helpful.


As far as I'm aware the rules haven't changed at all. Ragamuffins are now at assessment stage for showing and definitately are not shown against Ragdolls, which they would be if they were Ragdolls.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

as far as i am aware if your ragdoll isnt colourpointed, mitted or bicolour with blue eyes from ragdoll parents it isnt a ragdoll??

ragamuffins are now registered as breed number 60 according to the gccf office, but the joan who does the semilonghaired registrations is on her hols so i cant pick her brains.

there is also a ragamuffin breed club in the uk now too.

maybe your aunt hasnt got a solid ragdoll but a ragamuffin? i hope so, i wouldnt like for anyone to be ripped off.

RagaMuffin Info


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, that's what I've just said - the kitten cannot be a Ragdoll, it must be a Ragamuffin, which is recognised as a different breed.

Technically an oriental cat is a Siamese which doesn't carry the himalayan gene, so is a solid, tabby or bi-colour, but it would never be bought or sold as a Siamese, because when breeders started outcrossing to produce solid Siamese, they didn't fit the breed standard and so it was decided they would be bred as orientals.

This is the same as the Ragdoll and the Ragamuffin.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve found the ragamuffin breed club!

The UK RagaMuffin Cat Society

seems that colourpointed ragamuffins are classed as variants and cant be shown, 
and ragdolls cannot be crossed with ragamuffins.
two entirely different breeds 
and ragamuffs cannot be bred from nor babies registered unless the parents are hcm and pkd negative.

so a solid ragdoll dosnt exist.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Guys

I have sent a link to this thread to the lady who bred him as I don’t know enough about ragdolls, their registration or breed to comment any further on anything other than what my Auntie has been told.
If she comments back I will add it here, with her permission

T
x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

OK - that'll be interesting.

As I said it might just be purely semantics. 

The kittens may actually be registered as Ragamuffins, because I don't see how they could be registered as Ragdolls, but your aunt has told you they're Ragdolls because she bought them from a Ragdoll breeder???


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

feorag said:


> OK - that'll be interesting.
> 
> As I said it might just be purely semantics.
> 
> The kittens may actually be registered as Ragamuffins, because I don't see how they could be registered as Ragdolls, but your aunt has told you they're Ragdolls because she bought them from a Ragdoll breeder???


No, the breeder told us that they are ragdolls. Thats what they were sold as and Toddi as a solid ragdoll. 
She / I have been in touch with the breeder throughout and still are, hence sending her this thread. If you check the link about Solid Ragdolls, the are on there as tiny kittens and were under the Kittens available page as Ragdolls for sale.

x


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Curiouser and curiouser......


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I looked at the link when you first posted them because I couldn't understand how they could be Ragdolls and I recognised your two kittens in the photograph.

Well I confess to being very confused if you have been sold these kittens as Ragdolls and I cannot understand how they have been registered as Ragdolls, but maybe the breeder will explain where Piggly and I are misunderstanding the situation.

It's very clear on this American site why a solid coloured cat *cannot* be registered as a Ragdoll and as these cats originated in America - surely they are right?? RagaMuffin Cat


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

feorag said:


> I looked at the link when you first posted them because I couldn't understand how they could be Ragdolls and I recognised your two kittens in the photograph.
> 
> Well I confess to being very confused if you have been sold these kittens as Ragdolls and I cannot understand how they have been registered as Ragdolls, but maybe the breeder will explain where Piggly and I are misunderstanding the situation.
> 
> It's very clear on this American site why a solid coloured cat *cannot* be registered as a Ragdoll and as these cats originated in America - surely they are right?? RagaMuffin Cat


Like I said before, to be fair neither me or my aunt are bothered what they are or turn out to be. Yes if they have been sold as something and are really something different then it’s interesting to find out, but doesn’t make a difference to us or Purdi and Toddi. 

I cant really comment anymore as I only know and have stated what I was told and read. I’m not fighting against what you guys think or know, that’s why I have left it to Teresa to comment.
x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And neither of us is trying to tell you that you're wrong, we're just trying to understand the situation.

As I said in my first post they are both beautiful kittens especially the solid blue one and, to be honest, it shouldn't make a difference what they are, as long as your aunt is happy with them - that's the crux of the matter.

We're just trying to understand whether we've got it all wrong, that's all. Especially Piggly as she breeds them herself. I'm just putting my two-penn'orth in because of my interest in cat breeding and the Cat Fancy! :blush:


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

feorag said:


> And neither of us is trying to tell you that you're wrong, we're just trying to understand the situation.
> 
> As I said in my first post they are both beautiful kittens especially the solid blue one and, to be honest, it shouldn't make a difference what they are, as long as your aunt is happy with them - that's the crux of the matter.
> 
> We're just trying to understand whether we've got it all wrong, that's all. Especially Piggly as she breeds them herself. I'm just putting my two-penn'orth in because of my interest in cat breeding and the Cat Fancy! :blush:


I understand that and I’m sorry if I seemed a bit defensive but I can only go on what I have been told and read.
As for Purdi and Toddi, their 3 brothers are all British domestic short hair (that’s how we classed bog standard cats when I was a veterinary nurse) and all are loved the same. With Purdi and Toddi, my aunt liked the look of the cats and more so reading about their temperament.
x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Glad to hear that you don't think we're having a go at you, because of course we aren't!


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

feorag said:


> Glad to hear that you don't think we're having a go at you, because of course we aren't!


 huh see eileens coming out of her cellar again:whip::whip:

















:lol2::flrt::lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:roll2: PMSL!!!


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Guys
I have received this email back from Teresa who bread Toddi and Purdi. As I have said I can not answer your questions so if you have any following this post I would think it better to email her through Tumbledown, although I would still be interested to know what your comments are. 
I cant help but feel somewhat attacked by all this when all I have done is pass on what little information I have been given
Thanks T

Hi tara 


I have looked at your forum- basically some of the "breeders" on the site don't understand the difference between ragdolls and ragamuffins so i have taken the liberty of cutting and pasting the following for you to use. I do not wish to participate in the discussion _ I use other forums which are for breeders of the raggies - please feel reassured that these kittens are pedigree and are not due to some out crossing _ I found the comments on the forum slanderous to say the least!

Solid Ragdoll's have been around since the beginning of the Ragdoll breed. Josephine's daughter (Buckwheat) first litter produced 4 Ragdoll kittens. These kittens were a solid black kitten named Gueber (m), a solid black and white mitted named Mitts (m), a chocolate colour point (traditional Ragdoll kitten) named Tiki (f) and a seal point mitted (another traditional kitten) named Kyoto (m). This litter was born in the summer of 1965. 
 
The Solid Ragdoll; unlike the Ragamuffin, MUST conform to the three patterns of the Ragdoll, Colourpoint, Mitted (with or without blaze) and Bicolour. The only difference is that that the Solids have eyes of green, copper, blue, blue-green, and odd eyes whereby the Pointed Ragdolls must have blue eyes.

As far as the standard of the Solid Ragdoll, it can be black, blue, chocolate, lilac, white, red, cream, blue/cream, and seal tortie and any of these colours can be marked with the Lynx (tabby) gene, as well as smoke, shaded and silver. Again, the coat texture and pattern must conform to that of the Traditional Ragdoll.

Solid Ragdolls are purebred; they are registered with TICA. Some breeders believe the Solids to be controversial however more and more Ragdoll breeders are opening their hearts and minds to accepting the solids into their breeding program. They are still the laid back Ragdolls that are known today. They are often referred to as Non-Traditional Ragdolls.
A special feature found in the non-pointed Solid Ragdolls is that they can give birth to both pointed and non-pointed Ragdoll kittens in the same litter! This is due to the fact that the Solid Ragdoll carries the gene for the pointed traditional variety of Ragdoll. So as a breeder, one is always anticipating the birth of such a litter. The traditional Ragdoll kittens are born completely white (colour on these kittens starts to come in after several days) while the non-traditional Solid Ragdoll kittens of the same litter are born with full color

Teresa Hassett
[email protected]
http://www.tumbledownragdollcats.co.uk


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Please don't feel attacked - you're not being attacked at all - we were just curious about your aunt being sold a Ragdoll that to our knowledge was not a Ragdoll but a Ragamuffin.

As I said it's semantics, because technically they are the same breed, but Ragdoll is a trademarked name and the owner of the trademark stipulated that only pointed cats could be registered as Ragdolls. I even gave the example of Oriental and Siamese cats which can be bred together, but the solid orientals must be registered as Orientals and only the pointed cats as Siamese. Basically it's the same principle. The point that I certainly was making was that the blue solid boy was a Ragamuffin - that was why I asked what was on his registration certificate. 

The bit she has cut and pasted is from the website that I linked to on this thread so I don't need to read it again.

There is nowhere on this forum that either Piggly or I have said that these are *not* pedigree kittens, we aren't daft enough to suggest that they are, because we understand the breeding of new colours of cats and so we know that they aren't! 

So if she's reading this, maybe she'd like to e-mail me and tell me where I have said they aren't pedigrees? My website URL is clearly displayed on the bottom of my signature and she can e-mail me through that! I don't want to carry on this discussion on your thread, but I'd love her to e-mail me to explain that.

And as a breeder of Somalis and Siamese/Orientals for nearly 20 years, breeding the top winning Somali in the UK 2 years running (2 different cats) I take offence at her putting the word breeders in speech marks implying that I am not a breeder and therefore don't understand the finer points of breeder! I am and I do.

What her reply proves to me is that she hasn't read the thread and certainly my posts correctly, because if she had, all she needed to say was that the blue solid boy was indeed a Ragamuffin and the whole question would have been sorted Also the fact that she has quoted the same link that I pasted was totally unnecessary as it was there for everyone to read.

Again, please understand I'm not having a go at you, but if you'd been sold the kittens as a Ragdoll and a Ragamuffin, then neither Piggly nor I would have queried it at all.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

I dont understand though because they came from the same parents so does that not make them both ragamuffins and not ragdolls?
If they are ragamuffins is this still a pedigree cat?
Also, is there one body in the uk like the kennel club is for dogs, that pedigree cats are registered with?

If I was you I would contact her by email as I am not going to email her back re these posts as I still don’t seem to be getting clear answers from anywhere and its being taken as me doubting the kittens and its not that, I just dont understand it fully, and still after all the posts on this thread I don’t.

All I was after was as the above, are they ragdolls? Are they registered as ragdolls, if not, why not as my aunt was sold 2 ragdoll kittens and while she really doesn’t mind what they are, I do, in so much as I would hate her to have been mis sold.

:-(


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

taraliz said:


> I dont understand though because they came from the same parents so does that not make them both ragamuffins and not ragdolls?
> If they are ragamuffins is this still a pedigree cat?
> Also, is there one body in the uk like the kennel club is for dogs, that pedigree cats are registered with?
> 
> ...


I *think* that one is a ragdoll and one is a raggamuffin.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> I *think* that one is a ragdoll and one is a raggamuffin.


But how can that be when they have the same parents?

I cant think of anything to liken it to other than if a white man and black woman had 2 children, even if their skin tone was that one was darker than the other, both children would be mixed race?

I guess like a Labrador and poodle cross, if one came out looking just like a Labrador and one just like a poodle they would still be labradoodles?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

> As I said it's semantics, because technically they are the same breed, but Ragdoll is a trademarked name and the owner of the trademark stipulated that only pointed cats could be registered as Ragdolls. I even gave the example of Oriental and Siamese cats which can be bred together, but the solid orientals must be registered as Orientals and only the pointed cats as Siamese. Basically it's the same principle. The point that I certainly was making was that the blue solid boy was a Ragamuffin - that was why I asked what was on his registration certificate. ............Again, please understand I'm not having a go at you, but if you'd been sold the kittens as a Ragdoll and a Ragamuffin, then neither Piggly nor I would have queried it at all.


im not 100% but i hink thats what elieen is saying, genetics are very confusing,


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Let me try and explain it to you using the best example I can think of to compare with Ragdolls and that is Siamese. When Siamese were first brought into this country they came in both solid and pointed colours, but only pointed cats were known as the Royal Cat of Siam. Eventually, everyone wanted to breed these cats and the solid colours basically died out. 

Then in the 1960's a group of breeders decided they wanted to bring in the solid colours again, so they started to outcross to other breeds to introduce a solid siamese - the himalayan gene is recessive, so both parents have to carry it to produce it.

So now today there are thousands of oriental cats in a wide variety of colours and patterns. Genetically they are Siamese, but because they aren't pointed they don't conform to the Siamese Standard of Points and are registered as Orientals and they are all pedigree cats.

This means that Siamese and Orientals can be bred together. If you mate a siamese to an Oriental Blue for instance, if the Oriental Blue carries the himalayan gene then the litter can have solid and pointed cats, *but* the solid cats are registered as Orientals and the pointed cats are registered as Siamese. That's it put in the simplest of terms.

So presumably a pointed Ragdoll, bred to a solid Ragamuffin will produce both pointed kittens like your aunt's pointed cat and solid kittens like the other one. The pointed ones will be registered as Ragdolls and the solid ones as Ragamuffins.

So when new colours are introduced to a breed by outcrossing to another pedigree breed, the resulting kittens are registered as variants, meaning they are variants of the breed, not the true breed, but this is done in a very restrictive breeding programme using only cats approved for outcrossing by the governing body. Once these cats breed 'true' they then become known by their breed.

This is not to be confused with breeding say a Maine **** and a Norwegian forest which look very similar, but are totally different breeds - an outcross like this, basically is a moggie. :lol2:

So that was why Piggly and I questioned that you had said your aunt had 2 Ragdolls - that would be like someone saying they had 2 siamese and posting a photograph of a siamese and an Oriental Blue - does that make sense now?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

we`re not having a go at you.
i`m just querying wether you`ve actually got what you paid for as it were.

i`ve kept ragdolls since 1999/2000 and my first pedigree cat i had problems with the `paperwork` which took months to sort out, its very stressful trying to sort out wether the fluffy bundle you`ve just paid hundreds of pounds for is a great big expensive moggie.

pedigree cats are registered with the governing council of the cat fancy
www.thegccf.org 
the cat version of the kennel club.

for a cat to be a predigree its parents will be registered with them.
when you buy a registered cat the breeder will give you a printed pedigree which has to be signed by the breeder.

you also get a pink piece of paper - usually refered to as a `pink slip`
this is the actual paper which makes your cat a pedigree.
it will have the pedigree names of the kitten you have bought, its parents names and their registration number of them all, as well as the breeders and owners names.

all breeds have a code which tells you what breed it is.
a ragamuffin is a 60
a sealpoint ragdoll is a 66
a bluepoint like your baby should be a 66a

what is actually on the paperwork your aunt got with the kittens?

this has to be signed by the breeder to transfer the ownership to you the purchaser.

if you go onto the gccf`s website there is information on the different breeds, and if you wanted to speak to someone about wether you have been sold ragdolls the person to ask for is joan kimberley. she registers the semi longhaired cats.

she will be able to tell you wether solid ragdolls are a breed, and the registration policy for ragdolls and ragamuffins.

if you look at the site i put the link up for the ragamuffin cat club in the uk, it clearly states that registered ragdolls are not acceptable crosses to put with ragamuffins.
and that colourpointed cats out of ragamuffin queens are registered as ragamuffin varients not ragdolls and they are kept in the breeding plan to make minks etc, but cant be shown.

if you wanted to ask the secretary of the ragamuffin club about it her name is chris powell, from cheham ragdolls and ragamuffins.

i know nowt about ragamuffins, only what i found out by googling their site.

the info the `breeder` has put up about the origins of ragdolls and the other colours is basic ragdoll history.
everyone interested in raggies knows about ann and blossomtime cattery.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

heres the page on cat registrations from their site.

Welcome to the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy

heres a couple of interesting points from the page.

a kitten must be sold with a pedigree if advertised or sold as a pedigree cat.
it is against gccf rules not to, as well as being an offence under the trades description act.

a kitten sold unregistered must have a copy of its pedigree and a mating certificate from the owner of the stud, so that the new owner can register the cat themselves.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi
Im still not sure what to make of all this as I dont like to push it with my aunt and havent asked to see their papers but they went to the vets last night and from all accounts the vet also turned her nose up when my aunt said Toddi was a solid ragdoll.

x


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

still dont get how you can be so adamant that its a solid ragdoll when you havnt even found out if the papers came with the kitten or asked to see them.

you dont need to tell your aunt you`ve checking to see if she`s been `had` you could just say you`d like to see what `papers` are like perhaps?


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> still dont get how you can be so adamant that its a solid ragdoll when you havnt even found out if the papers came with the kitten or asked to see them.
> 
> you dont need to tell your aunt you`ve checking to see if she`s been `had` you could just say you`d like to see what `papers` are like perhaps?


... and you wonder why I feel got at?!?

When have I been adamant that Toddi is a solid ragdoll???
Oh apart from my very first post???

I have said over and over this is what I have been told by the breeder and my aunt, not necessarily what I believe, hence why I have asked you all for clarification, because, like I said, I didn’t understand it all.

This forum really does have the ability to make people feel small, stupid and really got at. Show me where else I was adamant that he was a solid ragdoll?

My Aunt knows about all this, I have told her about all the posts and about what the breeder has said to me and what I think etc, which I actually go with facts that I have read that solid ragdolls are not registered with the GCCF but I have been told these kittens are registered with the TICA but I cant find anything about solid ragdolls on there either. I can only go off what I am told but have not said I believe anything either way as I just don't know.

I had no reason to question it before now to be fair as a) i just took what the breeder said b) the cats are not even mine.

I only want this clearing up for her, but she doesn’t seem that interested. Of course I am but only because I dont want her to be mis sold something or have someone advertising something thats not correct, but is she isnt that interested I dont know what else I can do.

I have said a number of times for any of you that know more about this than me (which isnt hard) to email tumbledown. I have and she, I felt, was a little rude to me. I asked what they were registered as as I didnt get a straight answer, so im kinda stuck here without being got at from this side too.

I wish someone else would just email tumbledown and cut me out as the middle man as I can only pass messages between there and here and feel like im being shot at in the middle.


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## Anna_x (Jun 2, 2009)

Jack is only part ragdoll and I have to say they are just the best!
They do the funniest stuff could watch and play with them forever :')
My favorite pic of him....


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

taraliz said:


> ... and you wonder why I feel got at?!?
> 
> When have I been adamant that Toddi is a solid ragdoll???
> Oh apart from my very first post???
> ...


I'm so sorry that you are still feeling 'got at' about this business.

I totally accept that you are not the owner and don't have the papers and really, at the end of the day your aunt has got 2 beautiful kittens which she is obviously happy with and whether their papers are correct won't make any different whatsoever to her love for them, or indeed yours.

Please try not to get upset about all this, because I've never seen any fault on your side at all.

I still don't think that Piggly is blaming you for any of this or having a go at you, but can I just say in mitigation that when you love an animal enough to want to breed it (and the purpose of breeding pedigree animals is to hopefully improve the breed and breed the best) it can be very frustrating to see people breeding willy nilly, putting anything together to produce a kitten to sell, selling kittens wrongly identified colourwise which makes such a mess of pedigrees or mixing up their breeds.

At least that's my personal viewpoint.

I'm sure the breeder of the kittens has come back on this thread to read what has been said since she posted, especially since she accused us of making slanderous comments against her, but she hasn't taken up my invitation to e-mail me to explain what she thinks I don't understand.

And can I just say that I knew the kittens wouldn't be registered with GCCF because GCCF wouldn't register them as Ragdolls, because technically they aren't, but I'm sorry TICA will register anything!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`m not having a go at you, just trying to work out what you`ve actually got, you keep saying they are solid ragdolls, and as far as i`m aware theres no such thing in this country.

you dont seen to be able to answer any of my queries, just keep saying look at the breeders site.

the breeder has a registered gccf prefix, so has to abide by their rules and ethics.

so you should have a kitten thats 12/13 weeks or older, fully vaccinated, health checked and regisitered with signed pedigree and gccf paperwork.

if you and your aunt hasnt got them with the kittens someones been very naughty.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> the breeder has a registered gccf prefix, so has to abide by their rules and ethics.
> 
> so you should have a kitten thats 12/13 weeks or older, fully vaccinated, health checked and regisitered with signed pedigree and gccf paperwork.


But she registered these kittens with TICA because she can't register them with GCCF and like I said TICA will register anything, they have no scruples when it comes to registering cats.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i didnt see the tica bit, the `breeders` websites dont load or scroll properly for me and cabbage my computer.

i did google-search some adverts for kittens that looked very similar in the same area for from £700 each due to their `rarity` though.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:gasp: that's a scary price for anyone to pay for a pedigree cat imao!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

pedigree :whistling2:

i was offerend four figures for my ginner boy when he was 4 weeks old, i thugh that was weird


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi

My aunt didnt get the kittens till they were almost 14 weeks old and they were fully vaccinated.
I keep refering you to her website because she has refused to read anymore on here or comment, so I cant get any more out of her to add to this.

I havent seen their papers just the folder they are kept in as I dont want to rock to boat with my aunt but she is still saying (as i did) what the breeder told her that toddi is a solid ragdoll and one of only a few in the country.

This was my email trail between me and tumbledown below. I dont know what else i can add but I did feel got at becuase I was not adament that Toddi was a solid ragdoll as they are not registered with the GCCF
Is this the only place that can class a cat as a pedigree, like the kennel club with Dogs?

email trail

Hiya Teresa

I spoke to C today and she mentioned photos for your website.
I will pick some out for you and send them in an email so you can add them to your gallery.

I also put some photos of Toddi and Purdi on a forum I use called RFUK ... usually other people just post comments saying how cute the animals are etc, but a bit of a debate started over Toddi and Solid Ragdolls. It makes not difference to us what he is but I thought you may be interested in reading the comments.

Unfortunately I dont know enough about Ragdolls, their registration or the breed to back anything I have said up, but will post any comments you want me to add.

Here's the link.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...7-ragdolls-im-love-pic-heavy.html#post7362138

Hope you are well.

Tara
x

-----

Thanks Tara if its on the traditionalragdollkitten site I run the forum otherwise I will have a look if it on another forum look orward to the photos xx 

----

Hiya, no its on RFUK, which is Reptile Forum UK.
Check it out when you have time.
xx

----

Hi Tara
I notice you have put photos of the 2 raggies that are looking for homes on the forum, can you give my any information on them - ages, sexes, if neutered or not etc etc and we will try and rehome them for you through the rehoming scheme if that would be of interest to your family?
kind regards

----

Hi Tara
I notice you have put photos of the 2 raggies that are looking for homes on the forum, can you give my any information on them - ages, sexes, if neutered or not etc etc and we will try and rehome them for you through the rehoming scheme if that would be of interest to your family?
kind regards

----

have a look at the solidragdollcats.co.uk or google solid ragdolls they are still rare in the uk hope it helps

----

Hiya
Thanks, i tried the website and it doesnt seem to exist.
Is the solid ragdoll a registered breed? What are the kittens registered as?
Sorry to ask so much just a bit confused lol
x

----

Yes solids are registered (TICA and FIFe) and we are currently seeking to get GCCF to register them. Will send link to english site tomorrow but if u google solid several oversea breeders Toddi and Purdy's grandma was imported from Sweden! X 

----

Does the UK have one body like the Kennel Club is for dogs for cats? If Solids are not yet a recognised breed in the UK and Toddi and Purdi are solids and not ragdolls, then how are they a pedigree. I think im more confused lol
x

----

They're both ragdoll first and foremost and TICA /FIFe are recognised bodies in uk and overseas and both are pedigrees xx 

----

I have been looking on the GGFC and Toddi doesnt fit into the Ragdoll breed, which is the part I dont get.
The people on the forum first said he was a ragamuffin then that he was a cross (which would mean purdi was too as from the same litter) so im unsure how he can be registered as a ragdoll? Are they registered with the GGFC?
Im really sorry to ask so much but so many people are disputing that they are ragdolls and im still unsure what to say.
x

----

With all due respect I feel you are doubting my word - yes they are ragdolls and yes they are pedigrees and yess they're recognised also people on your forum are probably knowlesgeable in the field of reptiles not cat!!! I breed in partnership with one of the top breeders in the country wh also happens to be the president of the TBRCC - will send link tomorro I'm off to bed now 

----

Hi
Please dont mis understand me or think I am doubting you but there are ragdoll breeders on the forum who are questioning me regarding the kittens pedigree and i simply cant answer their questions, hence why I asked if you wanted to read the whole thread and asked for your help as they are stating that purdi and toddi are not ragdolls. 

The forum is called RFUK but it incorporates all animals and there are specialists on there from snakes to dogs to cats to skunks and so on. Its full of separate sections and the people commenting on my post dont necessarily have reptiles.
The ones posting are breeders, hence their questions.

I only wanted to back up what we have been told, which is just as much for tumbledown as myself, im certainly not doubting anyone, but you can see how i'm struggling with this.

If you have time tomorrow I would urge you to read the thread and you will see I have repeatedly said i cant answer their questions and was hoping you could.

Its very hard for me to tell them we have been sold 2 pedigree ragdolls when they are stating that the kittens are not ragdolls full stop. I just wanted to clear it up and respond to them.

Thanks
T

----

Hi tara 

I have looked at your forum- basically some of the "breeders" on the site don't understand the difference between ragdolls and ragamuffins so i have taken the liberty of cutting and pasting the following for you to use. I do not wish to participate in the discussion _ I use other forums which are for breeders of the raggies - please feel reassured that these kittens are pedigree and are not due to some out crossing _ I found the comments on the forum slanderous to say the least!

----

Thanks Teresa

I hope you can see that I have not in any way been disrespectful to Tumbledown or yourself and it was not me raising questions over their pedigree and I regret that in your previous email you felt that way or seemed to think I was doubting you, which I wasn't, I just wanted their questions answering as I could not provide the answers.
Had I have purchased Toddi or Purdi then I would have asked the self same things and would not have expected it to me met with hostility.
I have posted your reply.

T

----


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Just to explain the governing bodies to you.

The Governing Council of the Cat Fancy was established 100 years ago and has been running cat shows and registering pedigree cats in Britain since then.

The International Cat Association (TICA) was established in 1979 in America.

Federation Internationale Feline (FiFE) was established 30 years ago in Paris and is represented in Britain by Felis Britannica.

All these organisations register pedigree cats and hold cat shows in Britain and although TICA is the largest registry in the world, because it covers the whole world, in Britain GCCF holds the most shows and registers the most British bred kittens.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

feorag said:


> Just to explain the governing bodies to you.
> 
> The Governing Council of the Cat Fancy was established 100 years ago and has been running cat shows and registering pedigree cats in Britain since then.
> 
> ...


So if the kittens are registered with the TICA and FiFE, they are pedigree's?
Well I know Purdi is, but its Toddi I still cant get my head round.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, as far as I'm aware he's a pedigree kitten, I've never said anywhere that I thought he wasn't, but if he was registered with GCCF he would not be a Ragdoll.

As Piggly has pointed out there are strict rules when breeding Ragdolls which GCCF have in place to prevent the breeding of solid Ragdolls, which are not permitted.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

I see, so then the breeder is right, he is a solid ragdoll so long as there is such a breed clasification with the other 2 bodies (which i will go check) 
They are doing well by the way ... here they are.


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