# how to put down my beardie :(



## elliotuk (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi, I would like to hear people's opinion's on how best to put down my beardie, please don't critisise my decision to do this until you have fully read the entire post though!

Basically I have had my beardie for about 18 months, for the first 6 months she was very healthy, running around and chasing crickets etc. After about 6 months she started showing less interest in her food, she would only eat feeder insects if I hand fed her, at the time I didnt realise how much damage I was doing by hand feeding her, and within a few months she would only eat if I hand fed her. I took her to the vets at the time and the vet found a few parasites inside her and gave her some medicine, she seemed a bit more active for a few days but she still only ate when hand fed.

After a few months she seemed to slowly go downhill, she would still only eat when hand fed, but most of the time she would stare in to space and no matter how much i wiggled the insect in front of her she wouldnt notice it for up to a minute sometimes or not at all. She's at the point now where every day I try waving a roach in front of her, most of the time she will ignore it and I have to try again the next day. She eats about 2 roaches a week and thats it, she shows no interest anymore in crickets, locusts, worms and no salad leaves either.

I have taken her to the vet multiple times over the last few months and yes sometimes he will find parasites inside and give her medication but this never really improves her for more than a few days and she will still barely eat. She wont move for several days at a time either.

Now I have gone over everything with the vet, temperatures are fine (basking spot 100-110F, hot end 90-100F, cool end around 80F), the UVB bulb has been changed often (now an arcadia 12% UVB), substrate is just repticarpet, she gets a bath to soak in twice a week, and gets sprayed with water every day. Vitmanin supplements and calcium are given to her on the feeder insects that she does eat.

Anyway despite trying everything over the last few months, no matter what I do she does not improve, I feel partly responsible as I should never have hand fed her, but it's at the point now where I feel it would be best if she was put to sleep.

Now I know if I took her to the vets the vet would say "ok before I put her down lets check her for parasites" and he would probably find some and give her medicine for the millionth time, but this would not help, I would like her to be put down because she is not having a happy and healthy life, she looks misserable, but I have a feeling that the vet will just charge me a lot of money to try and see if we can "fix" her first.

Is there a humane way to put her down myself without her suffering? I read in a few places about putting them in the freezer, but then another web page said this is actually very cruel because:
_
"as they get cold, they become torporous, that is, alert mentally but unable to move or respond. This is in contrast to mammals, which become unable to move, but also become mentally dull and comatose as they become hypothermic. As a result, reptiles and amphibians can feel their body get cold, which produces pain, but they can do nothing about it. Studies show that they can, literally, feel their cells freeze and rupture as they get further chilled, sensing pain as intensely as if they were being burned alive, but unable to move or respond."

_So is there another way? Or do you think it is ok to freeze them? Or is it perhaps possible to buy the lethal injection online and do it myself?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

If you take her in and ask for her to be euthenised a vet cannot refuse. It is illegal for them to do so, even if the animal is healthy. Theres no need to do it yourself if you are willing to have a vet do it.


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## Google Astaroth (Jan 17, 2013)

Drayvan said:


> If you take her in and ask for her to be euthenised a vet cannot refuse. It is illegal for them to do so, even if the animal is healthy. Theres no need to do it yourself if you are willing to have a vet do it.


This^ Taking her to the Vet would be the best thing, it works slower on reptiles [for a reason I've forgotten], so you'll have time to take her home after and let her go in peace in her viv.


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## Denbyc12 (Jul 17, 2012)

Think it's slower because of them being ecto thermic so the metabolism and heat takes longer to work


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## StuOwen86 (Nov 12, 2012)

When I was younger say 15 years ago we had bearded dragons and one became really sick vet told us to put him in the fridge to cool down and go to sleep and after that in the freezer.. Not sure tho I would rather have had him euthanised as opposed to the way the vet told us but being 11 I had no say in the matter and forums like this were not around to provide the excellent info and help available to us now.

Stu


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

elliotuk said:


> [/I]Or do you think it is ok to freeze them? NO, it is cruelOr is it perhaps possible to buy the lethal injection online and do it myself?


No Pentoject (or other brand names for the barbiturate) is a controlled drug... and besides you would need to know how to use it properly


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Please, please don't try and freeze her - it's inexplicably cruel for the reasons you've found and so very painful for them. You wouldn't want her passing to be so torturous when you've been so kind to her so far.
If you are certain this is what you want for her and that she's got no quality of life, then the vet shouldn't refuse euthanasia.


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## elliotuk (Jan 1, 2012)

Ahhhh I wasnt aware that a vet *had *to put your pet to sleep if you wanted it, I assumed they could refuse if they deemed the animal healthy enough. So that makes things easier then, I will take her to the vets and have it done properly.

thanks for your help


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## ayrshire bob (Oct 24, 2012)

sorry to hear about this. maybe another vet would have a better idea of whats wrong with it? is the vet you have been going to a reptile specialist? a second opinion surely can't hurt? just a thought before giving up on the wee one completly?


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## CHATAfrog (Feb 27, 2012)

Sorry, apart from being lazy and not a particularly good eater, what is actually wrong with this dragon? You're going to have it put down rather than getting a second opinion because... what? I'm really not having a go or trying to flame you but are you sure there isn't more you can do?


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## yummymummytothree (Mar 12, 2012)

Maybe getting another vet to check her could be your first plan as the first vet cud be missing something then if still no good answers come and u deem it necessary have her put to sleep at the vets but as said above apart from her being lazy and not eating much what is wrong with her x


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## IceBloodExotics (Sep 17, 2012)

Dude, I see your from glasgow, if your looking for a reptile specilist vet try Ardmory Vets Home


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## Kuja (Dec 14, 2011)

Before you jump into anything, my dragon like many others has not eaten properly since about September/October the weather changed and we had a cold winter coming, the reptiles knew.

I can't see anything wrong with the dragon from your post so isn't PTS a little bit harsh? A dragon not eating at this time of the year isn't unsurprising, you can break the handfeeding don't try and feed for a few days and place insects in there after a few days she will eat when she gets hungry(as long as there isn't something else wrong), spraying everyday might not be helping if she does not want to interact. I have never sprayed mine he gets a bath about once every 2 weeks normally to clean him more than anything.

Still your choice i guess, i still think its a bit OTT.

edit - and yes, avoid the freezer its a painful death, vets will be able to PTS(have not gone through the motions myself) but i thought it was an injection into the heart.


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## IceBloodExotics (Sep 17, 2012)

Would http://www.facebook.com/SRER15?ref=ts&fref=ts not take him?


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

Im only just starting out in learning about beardies but from what ive read could it not be brumation due the very cold spell we have had?

Tomcannon mentioned the other day about thebarometric pressure on the rise which may see her become more alert/active!

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/937449-barometric-pressure-up.html

It just a suggestion, as other people have said if all she is doing not eating then seems a little harsh to just have her put down!

I dont know much about the freezing part but it seems way to cruel to me! Failing that is there not a rescue centre that would take her?

Lewis


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## ffion13 (Jan 28, 2013)

Or perhaps there might be an experienced beardie keeper on here that might like to try and get her going again ?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

No offence but I wouldn't bother with that vet anymore. If he finds parasites he should tailor the treatment to what he found. Along with this treatment you'll need to offer a probiotic and clean out the tank daily (or at least every poo day). Lack of appetite is normal when taking wormers as it kills everything, good or bad, harmful or not. She needs time to get her gut flora back to normal - hence the probiotic. This in itself cam inhibit appetite over a long period. 

Yes it is also coming to the end (hopefully) of brumation time. 

Hand feeding her is making her lazy, you stop hand feeding she'll quickly learn to get off her arse. As long as you are persistant though. 

Get a 2nd opinion and some proper tests done, stop the hand feeding and don't give up on her.

Don't try and put her down yourself. The freezer is just wrong and no end of problems can occur with a 'DIY' put down if you don't know what you're doing


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## Red123 (Mar 3, 2010)

If you are not prepared to continue with her then maybe you should see if you can find someone that is. A lot of animals slow down at certain times of the year. My leos spend all their time in the cold hide and eat next to nothing does not mean I should PTS though.


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm just wondering if maybe she was in Brumation when she went off her food and perhaps hasn't come out properly yet? And maybe all the disturbance upset her system?

A few months ago, as early as September people were reporting their Beardies going into Brumation and some have only JUST started to come out of it?

Sorry if this has been covered already, I didn't read the whole thread.


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## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

lewkini said:


> Im only just starting out in learning about beardies but from what ive read could it not be brumation due the very cold spell we have had?
> 
> Tomcannon mentioned the other day about thebarometric pressure on the rise which may see her become more alert/active!
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/937449-barometric-pressure-up.html


Unless the beardie has been put outside, how is it supposed to know we've had a cold snap? The temperature in the viv is 110 F basking, 100 F hot end and 80 F cool end.

Barometric pressure varies all year, not just in winter. Do beardies have barometers handy, anyway?

Back on topic. Get the beardie treated by a vet who knows what he is doing. There's no need to put down an otherwise healthy animal. Only a vet will be able to make this judgement correctly.

By the way, the safest and best method you could use to euthenize your pet is to club it over the head with a heavy hammer. I'm not sure you'd fancy doing that though.......


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Yeah deffo seek another vet mate.

And give it some time and see if he comes around, he may come back and eat better soon, unless a good vet checks him over you never know...

And I know this isnt a traditional way with reptiles, however, If my dragon NEEDED to be put down due to illness etc I would not have the poor bugger injected or frozen, freezing sounds cruel...Id simply use my 22. Caliber rifle to the back of the head..

You wont find a quicker, humaine kill. And it will be easier on the stomach/mind than using a blunt object.


Good luck in whatever you chose to do, but give him a month or two of seeing the right vet.


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

Jeffers3 said:


> Unless the beardie has been put outside, how is it supposed to know we've had a cold snap? The temperature in the viv is 110 F basking, 100 F hot end and 80 F cool end.
> 
> Barometric pressure varies all year, not just in winter. Do beardies have barometers handy, anyway?
> 
> ...


Alright mate it was only a suggestion, as i said im fairly new to this and i was only going on what other people have said! Is there a need for the sarcastic response!


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

elliotuk said:


> Hi, I would like to hear people's opinion's on how best to put down my beardie, please don't critisise my decision to do this until you have fully read the entire post though!
> 
> Basically I have had my beardie for about 18 months, for the first 6 months she was very healthy, running around and chasing crickets etc. After about 6 months she started showing less interest in her food, she would only eat feeder insects if I hand fed her, at the time I didnt realise how much damage I was doing by hand feeding her, and within a few months she would only eat if I hand fed her. I took her to the vets at the time and the vet found a few parasites inside her and gave her some medicine, she seemed a bit more active for a few days but she still only ate when hand fed.
> 
> ...


We had a male bd that lived 17 yrs.
The last five yrs he was ok then not then was then not and this went on till one Christmas afternoon when he was trying hard to fight old age and he last.
So I would be wondering why your bd is having health problems and what is giving her health problems..
Then if needed I'd gut the viv and clean it all then I'd book her in to another vet and see what they say.
If you have no luck.. Then put her to sleep and give up..
Or ask was this past on from the breeder/shop!.. I'd not sit back happy with knowing this bd is having a short life.
Next rep . get a ackie ;-) from a breeder not a shop.


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

Ieuan7 said:


> Yeah deffo seek another vet mate.
> 
> And give it some time and see if he comes around, he may come back and eat better soon, unless a good vet checks him over you never know...
> 
> ...


Freezing slows the organs making the lizard shut down..
A 22 makes a bloody mess..but agree it's fast.


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## Leenie (Jan 24, 2012)

This has made me feel abit ill:-( surely the vet you have seen has some advice on whether it's brumation or a unhealthy dragon, unless you not going to the same vet everytime? Please don't even think about putting her in the freezer or hitting her over the head with something! Neither of my dragons are eating at the moment and when awake they look like right miserable buggers but their not losing weight so I'm not worried, one of them has already started to look more interested in us through the glass, an I was terribly worried he was sick in the beginning when he wouldn't eat. Brumation is a stressful time, have u weighed her at all? I suggest keepin a weekly weight record. If u really are at ur wits end with her then how about advertising her for rehoming? Of coarse list ur concerns on the advert. Maybe someone will want to take over her care, I know after reading this, if I was closer I'd offer to take her myself. 
Just don't kill her untill u know for sure what's up with her!:-(


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## Rabb (Jan 13, 2010)

If you have too do it your self CO2 would be probably the most peaceful method. I know it's used allot for chicks on farms. That's how all toughs frozen chicks and mice you get in pet shops are killed form what I hear. 

One thing that stuck out that others seem to have picked up on is the fact that it seems to be constantly infected with parasites so something has got to be wrong somewhere. I'm no expert on it but if it was mine I would be deep cleaning the viv (F10 Disinfectant) getting the parasites treated and then keep it in a basic as sterile as possible viv until I'm sure it clear. Making sure to try and aid recovery with the pro-biotic others have mentioned.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

jb1962 said:


> Freezing slows the organs making the lizard shut down..
> A 22 makes a bloody mess..but agree it's fast.


Freezing sounds rough :/

A quick shot to skull is IMO the best way to do it...Its a sure thing. And obviously nothing else comes close to the speed of it.

---

But i will say the Dragon in our house has become abit more withdrawn in the past month. He has turned into such a lazy animal. Sleeps all day and only wakes for food. Doesnt like be handled now so much either, but no doubt he will snap out of it soon as the warmer months approach.

An animal that has the year round calender bred into its life cycle over the millions of years will know when its supposed to be cold or not regardless of where they are.


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

Jeffers3 said:


> Unless the beardie has been put outside, how is it supposed to know we've had a cold snap? The temperature in the viv is 110 F basking, 100 F hot end and 80 F cool end.
> 
> Barometric pressure varies all year, not just in winter. Do beardies have barometers handy, anyway?
> 
> ...


 Barometric pressure does very all year yes BUT around different values. In the winter it drops and veries generally aroun 990 in the summer it's around 1020. I know this as I have my pilots license and have done for about 5 years. We use barometric pressure to determin altitude. I am now also an aircraft engineer so i see barometric pressure readings all day everyday. 
As to OP give ye dragon a chance don't just give up. Don't feed her for a week then just put some hoppers in the viv if she hasn't eaten them within half an hour retry every 2 days she will eat


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## alexsaunders1991 (Feb 23, 2011)

Has your vet recommended Critical Care at all? would boost immune system and might give him the kick start he needs


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## harry136 (Aug 2, 2012)

Just out of interest, for those who have gone through the motions, how is it done at the vets?


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## Kuja (Dec 14, 2011)

alexsaunders1991 said:


> Has your vet recommended Critical Care at all? would boost immune system and might give him the kick start he needs



As said(i missed it last time) if there has been treatment for any parasites then it is going to need a pro-biotic of some kind this could be the reason for not eating(or brumation and just bad timing with the parasites).

To sorta reinforce the whole brumation thing, mine 'woke' two days ago, at least i thought he did, he had 4 Pachnoda's on his day of wake then 7 adult locusts yesterday i was over the moon, came home after work and hes sleeping in the middle of his viv lol eyes shut and hes eaten nothing at all today(and has not done a doodoo either which is unexpected). I really don't think its time to give up on your little mite.


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## alexsaunders1991 (Feb 23, 2011)

in the vets, we havent put a reptile down yet only mammals. but usually, we would place an IV catheter, then place the animal under a light sleep using propflo via the catheter and when the animal is docile we administer the pentoject. this is how we do the mammals but dont know about reps tho.


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## alexsaunders1991 (Feb 23, 2011)

I would recommend asking your vet about critical care as we use these on our recovering animals and I also used this on my beardie that i rescued from PaH, and the dragon is doing really well


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeffers3 said:


> Unless the beardie has been put outside, how is it supposed to know we've had a cold snap? The temperature in the viv is 110 F basking, 100 F hot end and 80 F cool end.
> 
> Barometric pressure varies all year, not just in winter. Do beardies have barometers handy, anyway?
> 
> ...


Yes barometric pressure varies all year dy by day but low pressure is naturally associated with lower temps and vice versa hence why we've had a massive drop in barometric pressure since September, which is why we've had such a cold winter and barometric pressure has been rising for the last fortnight hence why our weather has improved and we've had a mighty fine week. As you said the temps remain the same in the viv yet our reps seem to slow down and brumate at the same time, this obviously isn't coincidence and is brought on by something. As they literally can't feel the cold snap then it only makes sense that it is the drop in pressure that coincides with it that they detect. 

Of course they don't have barometers but they don't have calendars either.


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## Munkys Mummy (Feb 23, 2007)

In case you missed it last time, contact https://www.facebook.com/SRER15?ref=ts&fref=ts

before making a final decision, it would be a shame if he was pts if not absolutely necessary


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## elliotuk (Jan 1, 2012)

IceBloodExotics said:


> Dude, I see your from glasgow, if your looking for a reptile specilist vet try Ardmory Vets Home


That is the *exact *vets I have been going to  Yes Michael there is probably the best reptile specialist in the glasgow area thats why I went to him.....many times.

So many posts here I cant answer everything, but to answer most people's questions: this started happening like a year ago not just during the cold weather, she hasnt eaten properly in almost a year. And as _IceBloodExotics _stated, I have in fact gone to the main reptile specialist in my area.

Anyway I will go back there and ask him what he thinks before I have her put to sleep, but the point is no amount of medicine in the last few visits has made a change to her behaviour. I could give her to a rescue centre but the point is she is not having a good quality of life no matter who looks after her. I do my very best to make sure she is happy but I dont think she ever can be. 

I should also mention that when I first chose her I picked her out of a "litter" (or whatever the correct term is) of about 28 dragons, I chose her because she was much lighter than the other 27 and smaller, it could be possible that I picked the runt of the litter. She has always been very strange running in to walls and not noticing objects in front of her, you have to wave food in front of her for up to a minute before she even notices it, she will just stare in to space, it could be an eye problem but the vet checked the eyes and couldnt find much wrong there....but then theres only so much you can do to check this.

Anyway I will ask the vet's final opinion before I decide, and _Munkys Money_ I will speak to the rescue centre as well first. many thanks.


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## elliotuk (Jan 1, 2012)

ive jsut rememebred that 6 months ago I made a video of myself trying to feed her and stuck it on youtube, so here you go you can see what a mission it is: Feeding a Bearded Dragon with Attention Deficit Disorder - YouTube

Note that when I made this video she hadnt eaten for 3-4 days, yet still she shows so little interest. You can see that sometimes she sees the food, goes to grab it, misses it and then loses interest. Totally mental.

PS. At that point I had wood chips but most of the time have used repti carpet, and yes she has been scanned by the vet and nothing was found inside her intestines.


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## ayrshire bob (Oct 24, 2012)

sorry to here that bud. was really hoping there would be a better vet around to check the beardie over. maybe worth looking into other ones in the area? Surely worth looking down every avenue to be safe???


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## Go Slinky Go (Jan 1, 2013)

elliotuk said:


> ive jsut rememebred that 6 months ago I made a video of myself trying to feed her and stuck it on youtube, so here you go you can see what a mission it is: Feeding a Bearded Dragon with Attention Deficit Disorder - YouTube
> 
> Note that when I made this video she hadnt eaten for 3-4 days, yet still she shows so little interest. You can see that sometimes she sees the food, goes to grab it, misses it and then loses interest. Totally mental.
> 
> PS. At that point I had wood chips but most of the time have used repti carpet, and yes she has been scanned by the vet and nothing was found inside her intestines.


Im sorry, but if you stop waving the food in her face like that maybe she would eat it. She looks interested, mine like to stalk, watch them be still and pounce. I wouldnt have her killed over this. My beardie sits there staring, Hes lazy.


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## JessT860 (May 14, 2012)

What the hell's with all the gun nuts?...

Our beardie has been off his food for nearly 3 months but he has only lost a tiny bit of weight, he's also been very lethargic with brief spurts of energy. A lot of beardies are going through brumation at the moment, our weather has been erratic and regarding Mr. Sarcastic's earlier comment, reptiles are a LOT more in-tune to their surroundings than we are and they can sense slight changes in things like air pressure and heat REGARDLESS of in-viv conditions.

Keep an eye on her weight (use accurate gram scale to record weekly weights), unless she appears emaciated or is losing weight/condition rapidly then dont give up. Try putting a set amount of locusts (our beardie's favourite) in at night before bed, then rounding them up in the morning to see if any have been eaten, then repeat every few days.

If all that fails (remember to give her a couple of months for the weather to warm up/her condition to get worse), then go to a vet to get her euthanised. Freezers and DIY euthanasia will just upset you/torture the animal.


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## yummymummytothree (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm sorry but looking at that video there is nothing wrong with that beardie its untreated that's y it's heads moving I think it's well wrong that u even considering putting it down I'm sorry but maybe ur moving ya hands to much for a start


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## Imrahill (Mar 8, 2012)

I agree with above post doesn't look like anything seriously wrong with your dragon. Your vet will tell you when it is required to put your dragon to sleep, having lost many pets over the years I can assure you that more often than not the vet will tellu if the animal is suffering just because your beardie looks depressed doesn't mean it is, my geckos diet varies greatly some times he eats all the time and sometimes goes over a week without eating. I would completely clean your viv then only interfere with your dragon when absolutely required( removing poo etc) and do the locust thing count them in at night and count them out in the morning. All the best though


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## Imrahill (Mar 8, 2012)

Forgot to ask has your dragon been eating any of its greens? Also I would cut back on the spraying if its a bacteria/ parasite problem lying water will only make this worse.


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## elliotuk (Jan 1, 2012)

no she doesnt eat any of her greens, ever,
no she wont eat the insects if i hold them still or further away or closer,
no she isn't "untreated" she has had all sorts of medicine from the reptile specialist vets,
no she hasnt just been doing this in the cold weather she has been like it for a year,
no there isnt another reptile specialist in glasgow just the one i go to.

i seem to keep repeating myself so this will be my last post, but she has gone down hill more since that video was done and most of the time wont eat anything.

like i said i will get the vets final opinion, but she is not having a good quality of life, thanks for all your answers anyway.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

few things i would like to add after reading this thread...

Beardies and many other reptiles can sense barometric pressure, of this i have no doubt, i first noticed there might be a correlation after noticing a lot of our beardies acting erratically before thunder storms, I believe this is a key environmental trigger for them.

The only sensible and safe way to have a beardie put to sleep is take it to the vet for lethal injection of barbiturates.

CO2 is not an effective way to euthanise a reptile as they are extremely tolerant of low oxygen environments and will come back round after doses of co2 that would be lethal to any mammal.


having watched your video, I wouldn't be worrying, i would put its livefood in the viv and leave it to it, its obviously feeding when given a visual stimulus of seeing the insects moving so there isnt a problem with appetite, when its hungry it will eat, These are lizards that can go months with out eating before even starting to lose any weight so i certainly wouldnt be considering having it put down.


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## IngloriousJD (Aug 24, 2012)

I would stop using your hands and try feeding tongs instead. Where i work (a sort of semi-rescue) there are loads of beardies with different issues and theres one that we believe may be brain damaged that never eats her greens and with insects we feed her with forceps and rub around her mouth from eye to eye until she grabs the first one (can take upto 3-4 minutes) then she'll grab the rest of them no problems and she lives quite happily. IMO i wouldn't put this beardie down


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## snootyfox (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't mean to be a bitch, but the majority of these replies are making me sick to my stomach. WTF are you doing, encouraging him to go to the vets and have the beardie euthanised?? You're f-ing SICK!
As for you lot comparing guns - I have no words for you. You're what's wrong with society.

So the OP hasn't quite got the emotionally responsive puppy that plays bug-fetch that they were hoping for. You made a commitment to an animal, and to them you are their whole world. Suck it up, buttercup, and knuckle down for some TLC. Talking Critical Care, Electrolyte Baths, Impeccable husbandry and hygiene, and lots and lots of time and patience. If you can't do that, or feel you have exhausted yourself at the vets, let someone who can do that take over.

I had an adult rescue dragon that was riddled with MBD, constantly bobbed at things that weren't there, couldn't use her back legs at all at ate one locust every two weeks for about 4 months. She was medically depressed and suicidal, and would try to throw herself off of heights. I could see that she had no 'quality of life' but instead of resigning myself to that, I decided to change her quality of life. It takes time, my friend. She looked like she didn't want to live but we pushed her through it, same as we would with a kid, and now she's a bundle of fun, feisty as you like, a different dragon. I shudder to think I could have wasted her life if I didn't have the time to push her through this difficult time and get her back on track.

If we can work out a way to get her to me, I'll take her. I'll buy her from you, if you need the money. Don't kill her. All life is precious and you don't get to decide who gets to live and who doesn't. Please, let me have her.

PM me.

xC


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

^ Well....that Escalated quickly!

But I will say your whole paragraph is abit (alot) hypocritical.

You own many reptiles, and you will be feeding live, healthy animals (i.e. Crickets etc) whithout.giving a second thought to their demise. Or how they are quite litterally savaged and eaten alive.

Yet you scrutanise people who are giving advice to someone about putting down a potentially ill and suffering animal.

Logic = Gone for a walk on that one.

---

I suggested instead of gassing, drugging or freezing the poor thing to death, that if a rifle was available, that would be by far the quickest (quickest = most humaine) viable option.

I standby what I originally said.

----

Many people, including my self all said that we think there is no real problem...The suggestions wer simply worst case scenario.


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## Frankmiller123 (Jul 25, 2010)

Do you really have the heart to let a living pet freeze in pain while you are sleeping? Honestly? That sickens me.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Frankmiller123 said:


> Do you really have the heart to let a living pet freeze in pain while you are sleeping? Honestly? That sickens me.


NO....hence the whole rifle debate! (If your question was directed at me)

Just thought Id respond to put the record straight about me 'being whats wrong with society'

I wouldnt freeze, gass or let a vet drugg my reptiles if i could help it.

It was just a suggestion...ANYONE with an ounce of logic should be able to see that its by far quickest, and kindest. And that I am not whatever you donuts
are trying to brand me.

How can wanting the quickest painless ending for a pet be a bad thing?

Honestly the ignorance and stupidity shown sometimes astounds me. (Not aimmed at you 

---


NO MORE...Im sure the lizard is fine, and hopefully the OP will drop an update soon


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

OP, Your beardie looks fine, based on the video. If I was trying to feed like that, mine wouldn't take anything either. 
Beardies can go for a long time without eating, especially this time of year, so don't worry.
Chuck the food in, and leave him to it. Maybe he is partially sighted or has some other issue that the vet won't be able to spot, which is why he needs fast moving live food.
either way, so long as his weight loss is not drastic, keep at him.



Frankmiller123 said:


> Do you really have the heart to let a living pet freeze in pain while you are sleeping? Honestly? That sickens me.


I've no response to the question, I just wanted to say

"Blimey, Frank Miller is back everyone!"


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## Go Slinky Go (Jan 1, 2013)

snootyfox said:


> I don't mean to be a bitch, but the majority of these replies are making me sick to my stomach. WTF are you doing, encouraging him to go to the vets and have the beardie euthanised?? You're f-ing SICK!
> As for you lot comparing guns - I have no words for you. You're what's wrong with society.
> 
> So the OP hasn't quite got the emotionally responsive puppy that plays bug-fetch that they were hoping for. You made a commitment to an animal, and to them you are their whole world. Suck it up, buttercup, and knuckle down for some TLC. Talking Critical Care, Electrolyte Baths, Impeccable husbandry and hygiene, and lots and lots of time and patience. If you can't do that, or feel you have exhausted yourself at the vets, let someone who can do that take over.
> ...


Well your not called Snooty for nothing aye. Your beardie was suicidal, really? We are supposed to believe it was suicidal. Please dear, get checked out.
And as for the gun talk, its more humane then freezing them. He thinks its got no quality of live and wanted to avoid the vets, people gave him solutions, i didnt agree with it but who are you to judge. And yes he does get to decide who lives and dies, if it is his animal, he does end of.


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## Imrahill (Mar 8, 2012)

snootyfox said:


> I don't mean to be a bitch, but the majority of these replies are making me sick to my stomach. WTF are you doing, encouraging him to go to the vets and have the beardie euthanised?? You're f-ing SICK!
> As for you lot comparing guns - I have no words for you. You're what's wrong with society.
> 
> So the OP hasn't quite got the emotionally responsive puppy that plays bug-fetch that they were hoping for. You made a commitment to an animal, and to them you are their whole world. Suck it up, buttercup, and knuckle down for some TLC. Talking Critical Care, Electrolyte Baths, Impeccable husbandry and hygiene, and lots and lots of time and patience. If you can't do that, or feel you have exhausted yourself at the vets, let someone who can do that take over.
> ...


I feel that you have went a bit ott with this post firstly having owned many animals, there is nothing wrong with putting an ill animal to sleep, I had a Lhasa that was diagnosed with cancer and we tried treatment for 3 months but it became obvious that the treatment was not going to work we choose to end the dogs suffering and put him to sleep( this broke my heart we had him for 10 years and we had re homed him at 2years old) secondly if a vet( which you are not) says that an animal would be better off being put to sleep them that is what I would do after all they are the pros. This is what most posters have said to the OP if his beardie is ill then put it to sleep. Another point, how did you know your beardie was suicidal? Did it tell you? And you seem to own a lot of animals how can you be sure that ALL your animals are happy? It is not sick to want what is best for the animal and sometimes that means putting them to sleep this is sad but one of the factors of owning animals and for you to come on here and criticise people for it it is wrong, what are you saying it is better to let the animal suffer?


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

maybe the beardie is getting stressed with all the trips to the vet, trying to force her to feed, and that could be making things worse not better, I would pop her in her viv keep her nice a quiet put some nice tasty duabis in a tub and let her chill and have a munch if she wants


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## snootyfox (Dec 27, 2011)

Go Slinky Go said:


> And yes he does get to decide who lives and dies, if it is his animal, he does end of.


It's remarks like this that make me desperately wish it was compulsory for owners of exotic species (and all species, actually) to have to have a licence and monitoring.

Not that this thread is about me, but as you mentioned it - when you spend time with an animal, studying it, bonding with it, you get a feel for it's disposition. In the wild, most lizards resign themselves to death when they feel it's inevitable, and if trapped somewhere (I refer by example, but no means exclusively so) to the giant plated lizards. Their defence mechanism is in their plates - like a hedgehog, they flow one way, but can puff them up to stop themselves being dragged out of rock cracks that they hide in. Unfortunately, they occasionally get themselves stuck, and after deciding that they aren't getting out, they resign themselves to death. They stiffen, and start to shut themselves down. Having experienced this behaviour first hand, there was something of it that I saw in my dragon, and she needed help badly. We know it is possible for lizards to feel depression - depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and there are many things you can do to kick the body into balancing these levels again. She was exhibiting many signs of depression - and this need to throw herself off of things was horrendous. Many would shrug it off as blindness (inability to see that she was about to fall) but if that were the case, she would still have that blindness now. The fact is that if you think outside the box, and the forum, and try to treat an animal holistically (looking at the animal as a whole, and not just each individual symptom - you can achieve amazing results. To many people thing that an animal is like some kind of machine - changed bulb, changed fuse, still won't work, throw it out - but animals are BODIES and can be incredibly complex. Once you start to balance out all the underlining issues, an animal can heal itself. I'm not saying that there aren't animals who need to be put down, and that there aren't sad 'lost causes' and animals in so much pain that they are beyond intervention - but it's a fck of a lot less than people think.

But who am I, indeed, to judge.

To Quote Ieuan7 - "...you will be feeding live, healthy animals (i.e. Crickets etc) whithout.giving a second thought to their demise. Or how they are quite litterally savaged and eaten alive."

I'm sorry if you feel sympathy towards your feeders. You must have a bigger heart than I. When I collect my insects, I fail to notice their puppy-dog eyes looking up at me and begging for life. I'll go and study a locust now. I may see the world differently when I return. But the fact is, that I have never once promised a different life to a roach, or a mealworm... Apart from once. I sort of fell in love with a silkworm. It was adorable. I was heartbroken when my partner had sort of fed it to a frilled dragon... I digress.
I make promises to each of my pets every time I take responsibility for their lives - and that is to give them the best chance at life and to make them all into happy, healthy beasts. I've a great track record. I don't promise this to insects, regrettably, so I am not a 'hypocrite'. I never break my promise to a wax worm - "Ooh, you fat little worms - my painted dragon will be so happy to see you!!" - promise kept.

But enough about the promises we make our pets and our breakfast bugs.
What I am deeply disturbed by, is the notion that the safest way to put down an animal is anything other than by a _trained veterinary practitioner _ with a _controlled substance_. The very reason that it is a controlled substance is because it has to be calculated to the exact .ml so as not to traumatise the animal and to send it to sleep, peacefully and safely.

Imrahill - Yes I hear what you are saying about your dog. But I feel confident saying that a dog that you have owned for 10 years will have been shown a good deal of love by you. Cancer is -in many, not all- cases a terminal disease. By giving it the treatment, you had done everything that you could do for it and took the difficult decision to safely have him put to sleep. It's tough, but in that case was the best thing for it. You did great  I still -personally- think there is more to be done for this beardie. The original question, however, was not a moral judgement on whether or not the dragon _should_ be put to sleep, it was _'How can I do it myself'_ - Some of the responses are irresponsible and ill-thought. 

Which leads me to..

I'm sure that some of you are regular back yard billy-the-kid marksmen when it comes to shooting rabbits or tin cans or whatever you like to shoot. I'm confident that you could shoot a small dragon bang between the eyes, blindfolded and twenty paces if you so felt like it.
However, you are advocating that someone who may not have ever had any kind of gun experience source a firearm, and try to kill their pet.
You just cannot expect that someone who might be inexperienced in such matters could get the first shot perfect, first time. They would invariably miss, injure the animal and have to take more shots until they hit the brain and completely traumatise the animal on the way out. Like shooting a target in a fairground, no one wins.
How is that any more peaceful than with a barbiturate? There are many more ways to euthanise an animal - I've been around animals, large and small, my whole life, and there are -pardon the expression- many more ways to skin a cat.
But I do not point them out, glaringly obvious though they may be to me, because the most obvious of them all, is to get someone experienced to do it. It will be easier on the animal, and easier on you.
I understand it seems like a waste of money to spend on something that you're not technically going to get, but you will come away knowing that you spent the money giving an animal the right to die with dignity. It was the final payment and the most important one. 

However I'm still for the pro-life argument, and still willing to offer the reptile a happy home with all the treatment, holistic care and TLC it could want. Watching the video - it's got something about it, that one, and I want to help. Please get in touch x


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Each to their own opinions.

And your paragraph was nothing other than hypocritical, "Dont put down an ill animal thats sick, but i make damn sure thousands of other animals die to feed my lizards" thats what your saying.

Me owning a legal rifle (p.s. Never once shot an animal, I bought it to practise my marksmanship whilst starting my career in the military) is no different from you purposely buying insects to kill them like we all do.

Your essentially saying if the animal is cute it shouldnt be allowed to be put down should it be suffering, but it doesnt matter if its ugly.

--

I can see where your coming from. But your taking everyones post out of context and insulting people....I could insult you, but im not!

Id appreciate it you returned the favour and played nice with others.

Although i will say a comment or two directed at you wer over the top, but by definition they are all correct im afraid.


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## snootyfox (Dec 27, 2011)

You clearly *don't* see what I'm "essentially" saying.

I'm saying my pets (and believe me, they aren't all 'cute') deserve the life that I've made a commitment to give them. I buy insects the same way I buy meat. Alive or dead, I've never taken them on as 'pets'. If I had, I would be keeping them alive with every ounce of my existence. But I'm not. I'm not giving up on them, because I never try to keep them alive. They are meat for my pets. Nothing more. We are all hypocrites by your logic - anyone who wears leather boots or eats meat. So fine, if that's all that you can take out of my post then so be it. I'm a hypocrite. 

And I'm really, really not trying to be a bitch, thank you etc for backing me up and agreeing with my statements - but if you say that you yourself have never shot an animal, you simply *cannot* suggest that someone else do it. So often people take forum advice very literally, and assume that the members of the forum are experienced enough at what they are talking about to be right, and I can just envisage the original poster seeing your post, and not knowing that you have never shot an animal before, and going and finding a gun with horrific consequences. The bearded dragon does not live on the computer. It doesn't get to restart if it goes wrong. It is real life, and it is all very well all of us giving advice on the internet but it is the pet's owner that has to go and do it. I wanted very much to convey my shock at some of these suggestions in my post because it cannot be that the OP reads them and think that they are ok. It required a strong post. I really, really hope that it is not too late and that there's not someone that's found a gun with one bullet but not made the right shot, and has to deal with the consequences. That is one psychological f-up waiting to happen.


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## Go Slinky Go (Jan 1, 2013)

snootyfox said:


> It's remarks like this that make me desperately wish it was compulsory for owners of exotic species (and all species, actually) to have to have a licence and monitoring.
> 
> Not that this thread is about me, but as you mentioned it - when you spend time with an animal, studying it, bonding with it, you get a feel for it's disposition. In the wild, most lizards resign themselves to death when they feel it's inevitable, and if trapped somewhere (I refer by example, but no means exclusively so) to the giant plated lizards. Their defence mechanism is in their plates - like a hedgehog, they flow one way, but can puff them up to stop themselves being dragged out of rock cracks that they hide in. Unfortunately, they occasionally get themselves stuck, and after deciding that they aren't getting out, they resign themselves to death. They stiffen, and start to shut themselves down. Having experienced this behaviour first hand, there was something of it that I saw in my dragon, and she needed help badly. We know it is possible for lizards to feel depression - depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and there are many things you can do to kick the body into balancing these levels again. She was exhibiting many signs of depression - and this need to throw herself off of things was horrendous. Many would shrug it off as blindness (inability to see that she was about to fall) but if that were the case, she would still have that blindness now. The fact is that if you think outside the box, and the forum, and try to treat an animal holistically (looking at the animal as a whole, and not just each individual symptom - you can achieve amazing results. To many people thing that an animal is like some kind of machine - changed bulb, changed fuse, still won't work, throw it out - but animals are BODIES and can be incredibly complex. Once you start to balance out all the underlining issues, an animal can heal itself. I'm not saying that there aren't animals who need to be put down, and that there aren't sad 'lost causes' and animals in so much pain that they are beyond intervention - but it's a fck of a lot less than people think.
> 
> ...


 
I know ive said this to someone quite recently, but i feel i should ask you more strongly. ARE YOU ON CRACK?!


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## Imrahill (Mar 8, 2012)

It's impossible to know for a fact how an animal is feeling, I work with dogs and have for years and owned dogs for 30+ years and I would not say I can fully read and understand them, the point I was making in my post is that if his vet says his lizard is ill then euthanasia is an option and its purely for the owner to decide, this is the burden of pet ownership. As for shooting it I wouldn't do it but if done properly its just as if not more humane than and injection( you have to physically inject the animal and the chemicals take time( sadly seen this a few times but its still the way I'd go) where as shooting is quick but I couldn't do it. But I understand why people say it.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Exactly....I only suggested shooting because someone said blunt force i.e. a hammer for an example, NOT AN ACTUAL METHOD but only as an example.

So i suggested shooting. In my mind its perfectly logical. I cant see how/why you would disagree with it...And remember now, we are only talking about this in reference to a suffering animal.

I would take a death lasting 0.1 - 0.2 seconds over sitting in the arctic naked over night, or being gassed i.e. Suffocating or being drugged myself personnaly

--

And what your saying is you personnally wouldnt put an animal out of its misery, which is fine, but im not calling you sick for wanting to watch it suffer for the rest of its life, am I?


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## snootyfox (Dec 27, 2011)

Again - the question was not 'Whether or not to put it down' it was 'how to do it myself'.

I'm going to keep this brief, so that it is impossible to misinterpret what I am saying.

I've said many times over the last few posts that there are circumstances where it is absolutely the best thing to do. I wouldn't let an animal suffer. But where there is a glimmer of life, there is hope. Before you decide to put down your animal where you feel there is nothing more *you* can do for it, let someone else with fresh eyes assess it. If not me - try another vet. A sanctuary. Someone else. It is not just my opinion -others on this thread agree - there is life in your bearded dragon yet. No need to waste it. 

Please do not freeze it, bludgeon it, try to buy drugs online for it or shoot it.

If you *have* to, take it to the vet and let it go. But please don't. I really want to take it in and give it a shot. And not the deadly kind


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## Go Slinky Go (Jan 1, 2013)

snootyfox said:


> Again - the question was not 'Whether or not to put it down' it was 'how to do it myself'.
> 
> I'm going to keep this brief, so that it is impossible to misinterpret what I am saying.
> 
> ...


I dont think the beardie in question is past it. I know the op thinks its got no quality of life, but that doesnt seem it to me. Not by the videos ive seen. And he shouldnt betying to have it destroyed in anyway, not a vets a hammer a gun a freezer, he should just hand it over to someone with more experience.


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## Lukosis (Feb 26, 2013)

Ieuan7 said:


> You own many reptiles, and you will be feeding live, healthy animals (i.e. Crickets etc) whithout.giving a second thought to their demise. Or how they are quite litterally savaged and eaten alive.
> 
> Yet you scrutanise people who are giving advice to someone about putting down a potentially ill and suffering animal.


That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that little evangelical conclusion!

Also, what you actually said was that he didn't get to choose what lived and died. You made absolutely no mention of pets. If you genuinely feel that life is sacred go vegan and sell your pets.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

I think also the OP might have mentioned he couldnt afford more vet bills or something aswell, think that was what lead to the different methods of putting the lizard down.

But again, nothing cynical or 'Sick' was posted...You simply 'jumped the gun' and 'open fired' on us...NOW WHOS THE HILLBILLIE! : victory:
:lol2:


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## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

PLEASE READ THIS....


MY MALE BEARDIE IS SUPER SENSITIVE TO THE TINIEST TEMP CHANGE BROUGHT ON AND ALSO THE SUN COMING AND GOING EVERY FEW DAYS WITH OUR WEID WEATHEWR (CONSTANTLY LOOKING AT THE SKY),

ANYWAYS , MY BEARDIE HAD THE EXACT SAME THING AS YOURS, AND I TOOK HIM TO A VETS, WHO DIDNT SEEM TO KNOW, AND MY TEMPS WERE BANG ON, ANYWAYS, HE HAS AROUND 4 MONTHS OF THE YEAR SUPER ENERGETIC,AND THEN MOST OF REST OF YEAR BACK TO SLUGGISH . HE IS VERY FUSSY WITH FOOD ,AND TAKES IT OR LEAVES IT MOST OF THE TIME, BUT IS A DECEDNT WEIGGHT 

I WAS POSITIVE HE WAS DYING A FEW TIMES,AND WAS IN YOUR EXACT BOAT 

I THINK YOUD BE CRAZY TO GIVE UP NOW, IT MAY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MISERABLE AND SUFFERING BUT THEY ARE JUST IN SEMI BRUMATION

MY BEARDIE WASNT KEPT IN GREAT CONDITIONS IN THE SHOP i GOT HIM FROM, AND MAYBE THIS HAD AN EFFECT,WHO KNOWS, A SECOND OPINION FROM ANOTHER VET FELT THE FACT BEARDIE COULD SEE THE WINDOW (AND WAS ALWAYS CHECKING THE SKY, COUPLED WITH THE FACT WE HAVE A CRAZY HEATWAVE IN MARCH, THEN NOTHING, THEN A LATE SUMMER, CAN TRIGGER BRUMATIONS IN THEM,EVEN THOUGH YOUR TEMPS ARE 99% STABLE

I REALLY HOPE YOU DONT PUT HIM DOWN,IT CAN DEFINATLEY SEEM BAD,BUT MINE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW WHAT YOU THINK IS ONE THING TURNS OUT TO BE WRONG,EVEN THOUGH A VET HAS THEIR OWN IDEAS. A BIT OF TROUBLE SHOOTING AND TIME, AND SECOND OPINIONS AND MY BEARDIE IS FINEFULL OF LIFE. 

THE FIRST VET SAID HE DEFO WASNT IN BRUMATION, WAS TOO EARLY IN YEAR, BUT AS I SAY, THE FLUCTUATING TEMPS OF HOUSE IN RANDOM WARM SPELLS, AND THEN THE FOLLWING DROP,CAN HAVE A KNOCK ON EFFECT ON SOME SET UPS, EVEN WITH STATS AND BACK UPS ETC 

JUST DONT GIVE UP YET, I THINK YOU MAY WELL BE KILLING A HEALTHY BUT SHUT DOWN ANIMAL

MOVE VIV AWAY FROM WINDOW VIEW,GET ANY ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT TO MAKE SURE THE OUTSIDE TEMPS CANT EFFECT THE VIV TEMPS BY EVEN A LITTLE, AND IM SURE IT WILL BE FINE IN A FEW WEEKS JUST DONT GIVE UP SO EASILY 

CRAP,SORRY FOR CAPS!!


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## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

by the way i did everything my local highly regarded rep shop said, and trusted the first vet (as you would, he knows more than me!!) but as the more experienced people on here say,its not always a case of a care sheet and thats it,you have to learn things as you go , like the sun gazing window thing ,vast majority of beardies wont bother with this, but mine does, wether had a crap uv as a hatch in shop or whatever. 

plenty of people will probs offer to get it started up again


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Ive not had time to read the whole thread and Im too jaded to write a lengthy reply. However from the sound of it, there is no indication for euthanising the animal. I suspect it is carrying a parasite load. Pinworm eggs etc arent found in every poop which would explain the intermittent discovery of parasites. Medication alone does not eradicate parasites. It requires a rigerous disinfecting regime until the animal is 100 % clear. This means disinfecting the viv and every bit of equipment, every furnishing daily and after every poop. Failure to do this means viable parasite eggs get passed out of one end of the animal and with a flick of a tongue back in the other end. Bathing and spraying the animal is likely to be stressing it and increasing the risk of RI in a weakened animal. It doesnt need a death sentance it needs a bit of patience, hard work and tlc. It will be worth it though when you have a happy healthy dragon tearing round its viv.


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

For obvious reasons, I think we'll stop this here.


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