# Ill dwarf puffers



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

On friday I was at my lfs and i saw a 10gal tank for cheap. So i bought it and went to get some dwarf puffers.

I set the tank up, acclimatised the puffs and let them lose. I put a few ramshorn snails in, and two ghost shrimp.

They were fine for about 48 hours, then one was on the bottom, not looking too well. This puff has been on the bottom of the tank for three days now, she seems to be gasping, too. I've done daily water changes incase something was in the water, but no change. The other puff is fine.

Size: 10gal, heavily planted. 
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Any idea what is wrong?


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Could it be the other puffer bullying it? The Dwarfs are very feisty little things, and can be bullies... If you think it may be the other puff, adding a couple more may help spread out any agression.


----------



## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

This might sound silly, but how did you mature the tank since friday?


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

I havn't seen the other puffer bullying it, and there's plenty of plants to break up their line of sight... so i dont know 

and yeah, i used mature filter media. Sorry, forgot to mention that lol.


----------



## ern79 (Jul 26, 2007)

another silly question, is there a heater?


----------



## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

Ive always had bad luck with puffers, but i know they can be very sensitive to water quality, maybe puffers are like stingrays, and need a really mature tank. I think there are specific puffer forums out there which might be worth looking at. maybe theres a lack of oxygen or they may need brackish water


----------



## ern79 (Jul 26, 2007)

if its the travancorius dwarf puffers then theyre full fresh water puffers, many puffers can suffer from lack of oxygen especially following big meals, make sure your filter return is breaking the waters surface.
its always important to know exactly whaich puffer species you have


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Yup, they're Tetradon travancorius*.

*The filter is breaking the surface, and yup, there's a heater. It's set at 26 degrees C. 

Could it just be stress?


----------



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Could be... How are his fins looking? Nips or fluff?


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Fins are looking fine, they are clamping htem and unclamping them like they should.


----------



## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

You say you used mature filters.

If you have mature filters then add standard water that will just eliminate the bacteria on the filters anyway. Puffers aren't that hardy.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

10 Things to Know About Puffers: Dwarf Puffers

Dwarf Puffers : About Dwarf Puffers


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Diablo said:


> You say you used mature filters.
> 
> If you have mature filters then add standard water that will just eliminate the bacteria on the filters anyway. Puffers aren't that hardy.


Dechlorinate the water lol.

fishboy, i've read all them already :Na_Na_Na_Na: I think the puffer might have a parasite.


----------



## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Esfa that wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. You need to build up the bateria in the filters. Putting a Mature filter into strange waters will kill most of the bacteria off.


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Esfa that wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. You need to build up the bateria in the filters. Putting a Mature filter into strange waters will kill most of the bacteria off.


He's right matt, it would.


----------



## bullet tooth t0ny (Apr 24, 2008)

you cannot cycle a new tank in less than a week,you also can not put old media in new water.it seems like you have new tank sindrome to me.also what ph have you got your water is it the same as the tank you got the fish from.have you checked your ammonia,nitrate,nitrite levels with a good test kit.make sure its not old as your ready will be false.: victory:


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Yes, you can.

Use the mature media from the old ank and fill up the new tank with old water from the old tank. It's called cloning the tank. If it hadn't worked, my ammonia and nitrites would not be at 0. The tank is FULLY cycled.

I thought I had posted my stats, but it seems i havnt

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Everything is fine.


----------



## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Well obviously everything is fine bearing in mind you have problems. 

I'm also fully aware of cloaning tanks and it isn't recommended because it can FAIL. 

So you emptied a tank to fill another, what was in the other fish tank to cause the filters to be "mature" Don't forget puffers are dirty fish with alot of waste.


----------



## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

esfa you always seem to think your right but on this occasion your not by the sounds of it although your water tests are ok there is something in the water that the puffers dont like .....can i ask what test kit you are using and how old is it ....by the way i have been keeping fish for 20 odd years now and also worked in the industry for a very long time..


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

cant remember what test kit it is, but it's about 3 months old.

There isn't something in the water. If there was, both puffers would be ill. But only one puffer is acting strange. I think it's either a bacterial infection, or a parasite.


----------



## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

Esfa said:


> cant remember what test kit it is, but it's about 3 months old.
> 
> There isn't something in the water. If there was, both puffers would be ill. But only one puffer is acting strange. I think it's either a bacterial infection, or a parasite.


like anything some are hardier than others and the ill one may be weaker so more open to infections ect ....are you using a liquid test kit or tablet one as i found the tablet one is not as accurate and results are not always correct .......it may just be that the puffer didnt take to be bagged up and put in another tank this can and does happen


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

yeah, its liquid. :no1:

I think i'll give it till the weekend, and see if there is any improvement. If not, i think i'll treat with a bacterial med.


----------



## bullet tooth t0ny (Apr 24, 2008)

this all a bit of a waste of time,you are now going to do treatment on a new uncycled tank.i dont care what you say it cant be done in a week some fish are harder to new tanks than others.i bet if you done a water reading now it wont be the same.get yourself a new test kit and do a water reading today before treatment.


----------



## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

Esfa said:


> I havn't seen the other puffer bullying it, and there's plenty of plants to break up their line of sight... so i dont know
> 
> and yeah, i used mature filter media. Sorry, forgot to mention that lol.


So you put fresh water in a tank with mature filter media? The fresh water you put in would have killed the bacteria on the media. You should have waited for the tank to cycle. Using mature media will have sped the process up, but not eliminated the fact you still need to wait a little bit. Impatience was the biggest thing that killed fish when i was working in an aquatics centre. Even if you tested the water a little while after you set the tank up, it wouldn't have been long enough for anything to have really changed that much.


----------



## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

And puffer not having scales, just skin they are more suseptible to any fluctuation in the water quality. It will undoubdedly be nitrite in the water, possibly ammonia (which can be present when there is zero nitrite, and is also more dangerous to fish), which 'burns' the fish' skin - any catfish present will have been affected too. (But not as much as the ppuffers. Hope this helps - at least for the future. Ben


----------



## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Sorry, i agree with esfa here, it can be done in under a week. mature filter, mature water, low stocking levels. If everything is switched over quickly there is no reason for ANY filter bacteria to die. More mature water can be sourced from the original tank in the case of water changes. I have done it before and it work. Fact. There is no difference putting a new fish into this water than there is putting it into the original tank, though if there is a problem there there will be a problem with the new one. Esfa's tests rule this out unless (i can't remember if there was) the nitrate its dangerously high (puffers DO NOT like very high nitrate).
Have you considered the possibility of the puffer having only recently arrived at the LFS and having a delayed reaction to high ammonia/nitrite in the shipping bags? Had you seen the fish swimming around happy and healthy at the LFS previously to buying it or is there a chance it had arrived the night before and been sold the next day? The other one beng ok does suggest you are doing everything ok. Other than that is could very well be parasites. I would just keep a very close eye on the water parameters/temperature and not add any medication until you are certain what the problem is. Like it says in the links i posted, they are a very sensitive puffer that often don't seem to acclimatise well, and in my experience they ship very poorly and often seem to lose weight even when they are apparently happy, settled and feeding. Maybe a parasite treatment is the way to go. : victory:

edit - mate, you should use 50% mature water too AT LEAST if u want this to work


----------



## SnuffBunny (Jan 23, 2008)

Hellooooooooooooooo
If the water is properly cycled surely there should be a trace of nitrate?
As Ammonia turns to nitrate and nitrate to nitrite. If you are getting 0's for all of them it means the waters not cycled? I could be wrong but im sure im not as i had a load of problems cycling my tank.
Just going on what i learned from my giant puffer fish.
But.........If you have a parasite (which i think you will have as i think i know where you bought your puffs from)
Try a product called Flubanol? Flubonal? Try with the spelling, its like a powder you put in the water. Brilliant stuff.
But yea check ebay for it as thats the only place i managed to find it. Cheap aswell. And will not cause any problems with your water or harm healthy fish.
Hope that helps.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Spam2208 said:


> Hellooooooooooooooo
> If the water is properly cycled surely there should be a trace of nitrate?
> As Ammonia turns to nitrate and nitrate to nitrite. If you are getting 0's for all of them it means the waters not cycled? I could be wrong but im sure im not as i had a load of problems cycling my tank.
> Just going on what i learned from my giant puffer fish.
> ...


 
it goes ammonia - nitrite - nitrate 

there will always be a trace of ammonia and nitrite in a cycled tank and the actual amount of established bacteria will fluctuate with the ammount of waste produced. Most freshwater kits available will not be accurate enough to detect the low concentrations of ammonia and nitrite present in a cycled tank.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

are they males? is there any salt in the tank? how hard is your water?


----------



## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

fishboy said:


> Most freshwater kits available will not be accurate enough to detect the low concentrations of ammonia and nitrite present in a cycled tank.


Indeed. I worked at london aquarium for a few weeks over easter, spent lots of time testing their water. They have the photometric test kits, which measure to stupidly low levels to detect even the hint of nitrite and ammonia... it was an aquarists heaven :flrt::blush:


----------



## SnuffBunny (Jan 23, 2008)

Aha, yea thats what i ment sorry.
I got them mixed up. I appologise.
But still...Flubonal...Flubanal


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks, fishboy.

They were at the lfs for at least a week. So it really looks like it is a parasite.

The reason why my nitrate is so low, is because i have less them 5ppm of it in my tap water, and i have a very heavily planted tank. Therefore my nitrates rarely go over 5ppm unless i have something like a dead fish (rarely )

Btw, my water is 100% freshwater lol. And they are both females.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Esfa said:


> Thanks, fishboy.
> 
> They were at the lfs for at least a week. So it really looks like it is a parasite.
> 
> ...


 
tapwater in london has like 60ppm nitrate where i am :bash:


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

fishboy said:


> tapwater in london has like 60ppm nitrate where i am :bash:


awww lol. :lol2:


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Both puffers now look happy and are feeding! :no1:


----------



## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

i would guess that the smaller one which looked ill, just felt alittle nunstae beng in a new tank and all, kept fish for a few years meself, along with my dad who has 20+ years experience, so feel free to ask any Q'sbtw, is this Paul Stevans cousin?


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

daz30347 said:


> i would guess that the smaller one which looked ill, just felt alittle nunstae beng in a new tank and all, kept fish for a few years meself, along with my dad who has 20+ years experience, so feel free to ask any Q'sbtw, is this Paul Stevans cousin?


Yeah, that's what i think too.

and no its not :? lol


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I've got to say, I'm appalled to have just read so many people in one topic trying to force utter rubbish advice on someone in the form of authoritative assertions...

I hope we've all realised by now that you can indeed get going right away with mature media in a brand new tank provided the bioload is sufficient to sustain the nitrifying bacteria already present. Whether the water you use is fresh dechlorinated or something else doesnt make the blindest bit of difference.

Nitrifying bacteria grows on solid surfaces, the majority will be found in the filter media, with a proportion growing in the upper substrate of the aquarium and a negligible amount really on the glass etc. Provided you do not disturb the areas where the majority of your nitrifying bacteria are growing you can do a 100% water change to no ill effect whatsoever. 
I've been helping others start new tanks with mature media for 8 years now, starting my own multiple tanks this way and doing up to 50% water changes whenever I feel the need with no trouble at all. 

Dont get your science in a twist


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

^ yup yup ^

I just got two more puffers and they are now in a heavily planted 35gal "community" with shrimp, otos and snails  They're getting on great with everyone, they don't even bother the adult snails. They're all eating bloodworm, and they feed from my hand. <3<3


----------



## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

remember to feed them baby snails once every so often to keep down there choppers, im pretty sure you know this but just to make sure.

JJohn


----------



## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

daz30347 said:


> remember to feed them baby snails once every so often to keep down there choppers, im pretty sure you know this but just to make sure.
> 
> JJohn


Aye, i have an invasion on ramshorm snails lol. cheers. :2thumb:


----------

