# newbie help...



## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

ok i realise i am probably letting myself in for a right royal shooting here BUT...
i wish people in the classifieds would not just put the fancy names up for their insect/spider/whatever sales...
Know why?.... cause for us newbies we don't know what they are...
i have just been looking through and in the end i had to open a new tab and google some of the species up for sale...LOL

Sorry i'm so dumb...
thank you


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

So you would rather use common names which in some cases might refer to more than one species so you have no idea what your actually buying?

I like that


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

They are the scientific names nothing fancy. We like referring to Ts by their proper names not the silly common names people make up


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

snowgoose said:


> So you would rather use common names which in some cases might refer to more than one species so you have no idea what your actually buying?
> 
> I like that


no.. and theres no need to be so condecending...
it was just a passing thought...
for newbies to this area...a little extra help might be nice...
but hey ho...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Rach1 said:


> no.. and theres no need to be so condecending...
> it was just a passing thought...
> for newbies to this area...a little extra help might be nice...
> but hey ho...


He werent he was just making a point at why people dont use common names.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

I was basically saying it wouldn't work for the above reason, if you google you can quite easily find lists of scientific names to common names, but these might not be the same on each list.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

We don't like common names here


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

ok so why when i googled some of the more interesting names did google claim it couldn't find them?
sorry if i sounded rash but if you are new to this section its really confusing...
see...whats an ooth?


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

ooth is an egg case,

If google can't find it, it's more likely miss-spelt rather than anything else.

Searching on here and other various invert forums / sites also helps.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

ok...thank you..
:notworthy:

if i find any more i'll ask here...but no laughing cause i'm thick...LOL


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

ok...so heres a good example...


Humberriella Ceylonica L1 Nymphs £3.50 each

oothes £45 each hatching around 60/70 nymphs

Popa sp £25 pair L5L6 / Subs

this is from an ad on classifieds...
can you see how if you were new to this you would be like...que?
so what does it mean?
i'm guessing nymphs are kinda slightly grown on things...LOL


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> ok...so heres a good example...
> 
> 
> Humberriella Ceylonica L1 Nymphs £3.50 each
> ...


The L is the number of moults they have had, so L5 would have 5 moults, L1 just one etc.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

ok...so what are the actual species listed here see i wondered this and googled it but it got arsey and said 'google doesn't recognise this'

is the spelling wrong then..or is google just playing silly devils?


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

it's spelled wrong yeah, so unfortunately you didn't pick a good example :lol2:
Sometimes you need to play detective a bit - in that case I guessed it was a mantis so I googled ceylonica mantis, and it came up with Humbertiella 

Humberriella Ceylonica - Google Search

chances are that mantis doesn't even have a common name.


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

I understand what your saying but as Jake very rightly highlighted in the second post; the problem is a 'common name' can be attributed to several different species of Tarantula.

For examples sake, If I was to use the common name 'White kneed tarantula' I can think of 5 or 6 species just off the top of my head that can be considered a 'White Kneed Tarantula'.
-P


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

Well it should be "Humberriella Ceylonica" but like you said, google doesn't know it, and I'm no good with mantids so I would ask the original poster who made the thread.

As for the Popa sp. Popa is the genus but the species is not know / unsure about so it's just classed as a species of Popa mantid.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> ok...so what are the actual species listed here see i wondered this and googled it but it got arsey and said 'google doesn't recognise this'
> 
> is the spelling wrong then..or is google just playing silly devils?


Could be google, try putting just the genus and see if it comes up with a few species in that predictive thing is does, then if it is spelt wrong you'll know.
Scientific names makes life easier though really lol, doesn't take long just to learn a few at first


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Also dont beat yourself up over not knowing everything. Afterall we all had to start somewhere.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

+1 on all of these.
plus, google is very simple.
you just need to remember the species.. the first part of the latin name, then you know at least sort of what it is like.
eg: i see Brachypelma verdezi.. i haven't a clue of the species, so i can see brachypelma, i know its care etc. i know about what they look like ish.. big black spiders with very red/orange markings. you haven't seen the species, so you buy it


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

snowgoose said:


> Well it should be "Humberriella Ceylonica" but like you said, google doesn't know it, and I'm no good with mantids so I would ask the original poster who made the thread.
> 
> As for the Popa sp. Popa is the genus but the species is not know / unsure about so it's just classed as a species of Popa mantid.


Your change in font shows us that you google nothing...

Haha


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

lol... now i've clicked your link...i found some piccies of said humbrerellahumbugius mantis...LOL
its rather nice actually...
LOL


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

If you ever need any help understanding anything on the classifieds, and don't want to deal with this scary lot, just PM me and I'll try and help. (joking guys, I love you really :Na_Na_Na_Na

I think using the scientific names is much better than using common names, you know what you're dealing with then. it takes a while to understand but once you get to grips it really is easy.  For example Brachypelma Smithi, weird long name, but seeing that I'd know exactly what it is, rather than saying red knee. If someone said red knee I'd not have a clue what spider that was... Also with mantids some don't have common names, even with spiders. And the leaf insects there is many different species that all fit under the leaf insect title. If you were looking for a male example you'd need one that is exactly the same as the female, just saying leaf insect could be all of them.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

thanks hun...


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Well, at least you have noticed it is hard. 

It's meant to be, there's a learning curve but everyone gets the hand of it quick enough.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

LOL...
i know...its gotta be done but when you start out and are looking for new things its so confusing...
all i know so far is i have some thorny stick insects...
and some dancing leaf insects (my daughter named them dancing bugs..cause they wiggle)

i have some mackleys...LOL


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> LOL...
> i know...its gotta be done but when you start out and are looking for new things its so confusing...
> all i know so far is i have some thorny stick insects...
> and some dancing leaf insects (my daughter named them dancing bugs..cause they wiggle)
> ...


Yeah I was in your position a few months ago, I still don't have a clue on most things and do what you do, google it. :2thumb: Google is usually open for me, then if someone mentions something I don't know I google it, see what comes up, other reptile forum posts sometimes come up so you can read about it then.


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## Jo81 (Aug 4, 2008)

It makes my brain hurt!!

I'm just starting out with the T's and am slowly getting to grips with the latin names of some of the more popular species but most of the time I've several windows open googling stuff.


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

I always put both names in the classifieds.:werd:
I know quite a few of the scientific names but actually saying them aloud would be some thing else.
I used to train at LA Fitness, asked the bird on reception if they had any classes for "pie lates"
she said "oh you mean pill latte es". We were talking about pilates.:blush:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

see both names would be good...
or maybe a photo or a link to a photo...

i understand now why you guys do it... but as i keep saying its really quite confusing...and you feel daft asking! LOL


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> see both names would be good...
> or maybe a photo or a link to a photo...
> 
> i understand now why you guys do it... but as i keep saying its really quite confusing...and you feel daft asking! LOL


Having both names there does make things more helpful sometimes, but after a while you just start to forget them and remember the scientific names instead. I don't even know the common name for half of mine :lol2:
There's no harm in asking though, will always be someone to answer your questions  If you're new and don't know much yet it's not a crime lol.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Rach1 said:


> see both names would be good...
> or maybe a photo or a link to a photo...
> 
> i understand now why you guys do it... but as i keep saying its really quite confusing...and you feel daft asking! LOL


Most of us dont even know the common names lol


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

spinnin_tom said:


> you just need to remember the species.. the first part of the latin name,


The first part is the genus, the second part is the species.



spinnin_tom said:


> then you know at least sort of what it is like. eg: i see Brachypelma verdezi.. i haven't a clue of the species, so i can see brachypelma, i know its care etc.


Do you really? Why is it ok to assume all spiders of a particular genus require the same care? Is it not worth doing at least the bare minumum of research?



spinnin_tom said:


> i know about what they look like ish.. big black spiders with very red/orange markings.


If you had a look you would know that _B. verdezi_ look very different from _B. smith/boehmei/auratum_ etc.



spinnin_tom said:


> you haven't seen the species, so you buy it


Sigh



spinnin_tom said:


> plus, google is very simple.


Give it a whirl then.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> +1 on all of these.
> plus, google is very simple.
> you just need to remember the species.. the first part of the latin name, then you know at least sort of what it is like.
> eg: i see Brachypelma verdezi.. i haven't a clue of the species, so i can see brachypelma, i know its care etc. i know about what they look like ish.. big black spiders with very red/orange markings. you haven't seen the species, so you buy it


You cant assume all the spiders in the same genus can be kept the same. A good example is the genus Thrixopelma. T.pruriens is terrestrial whereas T.ockerti is arboreal so you cant keep them the same. I think you really need to do a bit more research because one day you will get one hell of a shock


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

so long as the seller has spelled the scientific name correctly you will get more accurate care details and pictures (usually) : victory:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

selina20 said:


> You cant assume all the spiders in the same genus can be kept the same. A good example is the genus Thrixopelma. T.pruriens is terrestrial whereas T.ockerti is arboreal so you cant keep them the same. I think you really need to do a bit more research because one day you will get one hell of a shock


and Brachypelma.... Brachypemla smithi vs. Brachypelma vagans for example :2thumb:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> and Brachypelma.... Brachypemla smithi vs. Brachypelma vagans for example :2thumb:


Brachys hate me with vengence so they arent worth mentioning :whistling2:. Plus you hurt my T.pruriens feelings at the bts remember


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

thank you for the input guys... this is getting interesting.
i'm glad i'm not that keen on spiders as that would complicate issues even more..LOL
The OH would love one but its a no no...
i'm just getting started on my leaf and sticks... and hope to get a mantid next..
just the fly keeping i'm worried about...

the Oh is also interested in scorpions...but that will be a while off!

so far we have mackleys leafs another one i forget the anme of but its green!
and some thorny sticks...
can anyone suggest some good mantids for beginners?
remember common name too if possible LOL


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

selina20 said:


> You cant assume all the spiders in the same genus can be kept the same. A good example is the genus Thrixopelma. T.pruriens is terrestrial whereas T.ockerti is arboreal so you cant keep them the same. I think you really need to do a bit more research because one day you will get one hell of a shock


Dunno about that :lol2: My ockerti's seem to act like terrestrials :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

becky89 said:


> Dunno about that :lol2: My ockerti's seem to act like terrestrials :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Well my pruriens acts like an arb from time to time lol


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Well my pruriens acts like an arb from time to time lol


:lol2: Damn spiders not acting how they're supposed to :whip:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

becky89 said:


> :lol2: Damn spiders not acting how they're supposed to :whip:


I think they just like to humour us lmao


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

I thought the same when I first started, a Theraphosa whatnow? !!! Scientific names is just something you'll get used to, it takes time. Took me ages, and I still dont know most of them!  I know what I like though 

Something that I never get used to is the arrogance of some of the members in this section. Like you pointed out, very condescending. 

Condescending:

_"Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority"_

This is a horrible trait so often shown by certain members on here. Whats wrong with helpful, constructive advice? It takes no more effort, just a little bit more thought.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

It'd be nice if people posted both, simply because then there's catering to all. Takes 5 seconds to type in the common name! I know that some common names can apply to more than one/a different tarantula, but there's no harm in it if there's both being posted up.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> It'd be nice if people posted both, simply because then there's catering to all. Takes 5 seconds to type in the common name! I know that some common names can apply to more than one/a different tarantula, but there's no harm in it if there's both being posted up.


Takes less than that to google a scientific name :whistling2:


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Jamie said:


> I thought the same when I first started, a Theraphosa whatnow? !!! Scientific names is just something you'll get used to, it takes time. Took me ages, and I still dont know most of them!  I know what I like though
> 
> Something that I never get used to is the arrogance of some of the members in this section. Like you pointed out, very condescending.
> 
> ...


I can't understand why some people choose to answer bona fide newb queries with either a rude snotty remark, or an incomplete answer which will only lead the OP to ask even more questions.

If you've got time to post, why not post something that is actually useful and reasonably polite?


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Takes less than that to google a scientific name :whistling2:


If someone really wants to sell their tarantula, then a good selling tip is to provide any potential buyers with as much information as possible.

Scientific name
Common name
Price 
Location
Picture

It's just common sense.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Takes less than that to google a scientific name :whistling2:


People would rather have a nice lot of information from a potential seller, than have to ask countless questions or have to google simple things the seller could have posted, if they'd have been bothered.

I know I'd appreciate a seller who provided more than one name, for browsing ease, over someone who was snobby enough to leave it out on purpose as their buyer can just 'google a scientific name'.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

@craig... i meant genus, obvious mistake, no need to get picky.
i said what sort of care, i never said you can know exactly what it is like.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> People would rather have a nice lot of information from a potential seller, than have to ask countless questions or have to google simple things the seller could have posted, if they'd have been bothered.


but what information is a 'common' name going to get you? you'd still need the scientific name to get the correct care for the spider.
are you saying that 'simple things' like full care sheets should be posted by the seller too?




Freakinfreak said:


> I know I'd appreciate a seller who provided more than one name, for browsing ease, over someone who was snobby enough to leave it out on purpose as their buyer can just 'google a scientific name'.


it really wouldnt give any browsing ease....scientific name gives you one spider.....common name can bring up 6 (chile rose for example)
it's nothing to do with being 'snobby' as you put it, it's to do with making sure the buyer knows exactly what they are getting (and not just a vague idea) so the correct information can be found and utilised to give the spider the correct care

:2thumb:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Jamie said:


> If someone really wants to sell their tarantula, then a good selling tip is to provide any potential buyers with as much information as possible.
> 
> Scientific name
> Common name
> ...


 
this would be the perfect ad... it caters for all..


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> this would be the perfect ad... it caters for all..



what about the ones that dont have a common name? such as the mantid you used as an example?


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> People would rather have a nice lot of information from a potential seller, than have to ask countless questions or have to google simple things the seller could have posted, if they'd have been bothered.
> 
> I know I'd appreciate a seller who provided more than one name, for browsing ease, over someone who was snobby enough to leave it out on purpose as their buyer can just 'google a scientific name'.


If I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't sell to someone who doesn't know the scientific name, shows they haven't done research and hasn't taken the time to learn about the species.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> but what information is a 'common' name going to get you? you'd still need the scientific name to get the correct care for the spider.
> are you saying that 'simple things' like full care sheets should be posted by the seller too?
> 
> it really wouldnt give any browsing ease....scientific name gives you one spider.....common name can bring up 6 (chile rose for example)
> ...


If you have been looking for a specific spider that you know the common name of, then if the common name is on the ad, you can easily check to see if it's the same spider (lots of people now put pictures on their ads).

I didn't say that they should provide a caresheet, no. I simply said to provide a name. Providing a tailored caresheet just proves that the particular seller genuinely cares about the spider's life away from them. People do the same for snakes, some sellers provide a scientific name and a common name AND a caresheet along with any snake that they sell. I'd rather see an extra name and a caresheet from a seller, more effort = more respect as a seller.

One little name added isn't going to hurt anyone, nor any spider. Clarification can be provided, it's just a small amount of effort involved. Laziness is something that people seem to love.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> If I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't sell to someone who doesn't know the scientific name, shows they haven't done research and hasn't taken the time to learn about the species.


Didn't see this until now.

I'd rather you be honest. Honesty is good.

Some people may have been very interested in a specific spider that someone has only told them the common name for. They may have researched into it, but how much easier is 'brazilian black' to 'grammostola pulchra', to remember? A lot for someone who has referred to that spider as a brazilian black, or even someone who finds it difficult to spell.

All I'm saying is that one little thing added to an advertisement, that other people too have clearly said would make things easier, isn't skin off anyone's nose.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> If you have been looking for a specific spider that you know the common name of, then if the common name is on the ad, you can easily check to see if it's the same spider (lots of people now put pictures on their ads).
> 
> I didn't say that they should provide a caresheet, no. I simply said to provide a name. Providing a tailored caresheet just proves that the particular seller genuinely cares about the spider's life away from them. People do the same for snakes, some sellers provide a scientific name and a common name AND a caresheet along with any snake that they sell. I'd rather see an extra name and a caresheet from a seller, more effort = more respect as a seller.
> 
> One little name added isn't going to hurt anyone, nor any spider. Clarification can be provided, it's just a small amount of effort involved. Laziness is something that people seem to love.


Little bit ironic, could be seen as lazy that as a seller you couldn't be bothered to look up the scientific name. :lol2: I'm not having a go or anything, just a thought. :whistling2:


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

personally I only use scientific name as common names mean Jack sh*t.

If someone doesn't know the common name to a T, I don't see that as my problem. I am selling what I am selling not just a spider which could be one out of unpteen various species if I use common names.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> Little bit ironic, could be seen as lazy that as a seller you couldn't be bothered to look up the scientific name. :lol2: I'm not having a go or anything, just a thought. :whistling2:


Nothing lazy about it. See above. It's like anything, if someone has been referring to something as a particular name for long enough, a new name (after they could be bother to look the name up) is going to be a lot harder to remember.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

As i see it if you had done the research on the species beforehand you would know what the scientific name is.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> Didn't see this until now.
> 
> I'd rather you be honest. Honesty is good.
> 
> ...


I don't understand the big deal, I always have a google tab open, if I don't know something I google it.  

Also if I don't know how to spell the scientific name, which is true for pretty much everything, I just google the bits I do know and it tells me the rest... E.g I don't know how to spell the pokie genus, go I google P. Regalis and look down a bit and it will come up with the full name somewhere. I've honestly never even thought it was a big problem, it's just something we do on here, I was a newbie (still am technically) about 8 months ago, I saw everyone else using scientific names, I just kinda adapted to do the same. 

And too be fair if they have been reading lots of pages G. Pulchra will be pretty easy to remember, or at least know what the scientific name is even if they can't spell it. Like with mine I know all of their scientific names, I can't spell most of them for the life of me, but I know what they are...


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> I don't understand the big deal, I always have a google tab open, if I don't know something I google it.
> 
> Also if I don't know how to spell the scientific name, which is true for pretty much everything, I just google the bits I do know and it tells me the rest... E.g I don't know how to spell the pokie genus, go I google P. Regalis and look down a bit and it will come up with the full name somewhere. I've honestly never even thought it was a big problem, it's just something we do on here, I was a newbie (still am technically) about 8 months ago, I saw everyone else using scientific names, I just kinda adapted to do the same.
> 
> And too be fair if they have been reading lots of pages G. Pulchra will be pretty easy to remember, or at least know what the scientific name is even if they can't spell it. Like with mine I know all of their scientific names, I can't spell most of them for the life of me, but I know what they are...


That's what I did too. High five 
My argument is just for the principle of adding the common name.


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## samhack (Jan 11, 2009)

In all fairness if you want something you research it to the best of your ability first. Most care sheets provide the scientific name and at least one variant of common name.

I actually find the scientific names easier to remember mostly. The only time I use common names is to people outside the hobby.

As for snakes and lizards very few people, even those who keep them, actually know their scientific name. I'm not actually sure that matters as snakes and lizards seem to have very few common names. The only things that seem to change is locality names.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> That's what I did too. High five
> My argument is just for the principle of adding the common name.


But why should we if people cant be bothered to research a new species before they buy it?


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> That's what I did too. High five
> My argument is just for the principle of adding the common name.


As Steve said earlier what about the ones without common names?


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Freakinfreak said:


> Didn't see this until now.
> 
> I'd rather you be honest. Honesty is good.
> 
> ...


thats great for numptys but I think treating people like simpletons makes them much more lazy imo. I have no problem with people useing common names and can they can be useful when talking about tarantulas to people who only have a passing interest in the things. It is just more often than not I do not have a clue as to what the hell they are talking about except for the ones like red knee etc which are very well established. 

Here is a thing to remember though, many people buy/sell their spiders abroad to and from main land europe and there you will hardly ever come across common names at all. This is the same for many reptiles etc also I notice when I go to places like Hamm. 
giving a care sheet does not make you a good/better seller or a seller that cares it just shows that you are also willing to sell to someone who doesn't know what they are doing so provide them with some basic crap to follow (which gets chucked in the bin after a few months once they learn other better methords...and they will).

But seriously if anyones brain can not cope with learning the odd new word or two in a so called interest they have then you have to question yourself is your interest really there strong enough to keep and care for the animal.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

vivalabam said:


> If I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't sell to someone who doesn't know the scientific name, shows they haven't done research and hasn't taken the time to learn about the species.


Agreed. That's why I have a big blacklist that I won't sell to here. 

Thing is, the 'experts' are the ones who go and actually read information from other sources than a forum. They then come back to places like this and if they can be bothered, and disseminate this information to others. 

It's like a reverse pyramid scheme, they spend all the time and money on the literature and then pass it on for free to lazy, cheap moochers out of a sense of obligation to improve living conditions for pet arachnids. :lol2: 

I have to say that I only kick around this place to dismantle incorrect posts from time to time and generally try to steer people towards questioning the "general forum ethos" - i.e. "Use small containers they dont use bigger ones duuuuuuuuuuuh" and "Buy 50 spiders that will make you more knowledgable than someone with only 10". 

Frankly, at times I _want _to bamboozle people because it is SUPPOSED to be difficult, and it is supposed to require effort.:Na_Na_Na_Na:

I mean, you wouldn't expect a mechanic to use alternative names like "tube-nut thingy that lightning stuff comes from" or "bit that starts a diesel engine thing" rather than the names, so why expect a discipline that started from a scientific pursuit to 'dumb down' and use common names - which are bupkuss half the time and purely the invention of the distributer, or change, or are so vague as to be unusable. 

I usually can't be bothered listing common names in my adverts since I'd have to go google them and they probably change with the seasons anyway, so might as well just get it right first time and stick with it. Plus common names often sound stupid:

_Rhagodes aegypticus_ or "Giant Egyptian Blank Banded Solifuge"? 

I know which one is easier to say! (Hint: Rah- go- des egypt-i-cus :lol.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> But why should we if people cant be bothered to research a new species before they buy it?


It was just the "they can google it" arrogance that made me reply with the argument about it. 



vivalabam said:


> As Steve said earlier what about the ones without common names?


If they don't have common names then clearly everyone uses a scientific name for them, no problem with it as there's no other name.

It's not the actual names I care about, it was the principle behind it.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> It was just the "they can google it" arrogance that made me reply with the argument about it.


They can use another search engine if they wanted to :whistling2:


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

samhack said:


> In all fairness if you want something you research it to the best of your ability first. Most care sheets provide the scientific name and at least one variant of common name.
> 
> I actually find the scientific names easier to remember mostly. The only time I use common names is to people outside the hobby.
> 
> As for snakes and lizards very few people, even those who keep them, actually know their scientific name. I'm not actually sure that matters as snakes and lizards seem to have very few common names. The only things that seem to change is locality names.


I do use common names when it's an irrelevant post, sometimes it's just easier. For example my salmon pink just ate a cricket, wonderful. It doesn't overly matter if I meant a L. Klugi or a L. parahybana. If on the other hand, I was worried about something that was going on with it, I would use the scientific name.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> They can use another search engine if they wanted to :whistling2:


Yeah, but Yahoo! sucks a fair bit.

See, everyone, with all the typing you've just done, it wouldn't hurt to add a simple name :whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> Yeah, but Yahoo! sucks a fair bit.
> 
> See, everyone, with all the typing you've just done, it wouldn't hurt to add a simple name :whistling2:


Why? 

The amount of effort people spend moaning about scientific names you could have learnt 2-3 names/ week and you'd be on par with the rest of us in a short space of time...


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

GRB said:


> Why?
> 
> The amount of effort people spend moaning about scientific names you could have learnt 2-3 names/ week and you'd be on par with the rest of us in a short space of time...


Why not?

I really am not entirely bothered, like I've said twice, it's the principle of the whole 'look for it yourself' arrogance to start with. I really have nothing behind the argument, other than providing more information is clearly going to be more helpful, even if it's just for people starting off.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> Why not?
> 
> I really am not entirely bothered, like I've said twice, it's the principle of the whole 'look for it yourself' arrogance to start with. I really have nothing behind the argument, other than providing more information is clearly going to be more helpful, even if it's just for people starting off.


But what we are saying is that why should we spoon feed people. They have a brain and resources needed so why not use them then ask questions when you have at least tried. By looking for it yourself you are going to learn a lot more from it than if someone just tells you.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> If they don't have common names then clearly everyone uses a scientific name for them, no problem with it as there's no other name.
> 
> It's not the actual names I care about, it was the principle behind it.


But pretty much everyone uses scientific names on here... I don't understand? I know the new keepers find it more difficult, but if we all use common names then no one would have a clue what we're all talking about. Surely a bit of difficulty at the beginning is better in the long run as they will be clear on things? Rather than oh my red leg is ill, wait are you talking about a B Emilia, B Boehmei or a B. Klassi, or maybe something all together different?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> Why not?
> 
> I really am not entirely bothered, like I've said twice, it's the principle of the whole 'look for it yourself' arrogance to start with. I really have nothing behind the argument, other than providing more information is clearly going to be more helpful, even if it's just for people starting off.


Well, tbh the whole "look for it yourself" argument applies to the whole forum and most of the posts within. 

I'd wager 90% of the stuff here is solvable with a quick google. I don't blame people for getting sick of seeing the same stuff after a while, especially when the forum also has a search function. 

The point is, people keep wanting things simplified to "be inclusive". There sadly comes a point where people cannot be included because they are simply not up to the task. If you can't be bothered learning the lingo then you have to accept you'll be limited in certain respects - be it buying from certain sellers or trading with people, whatever.


And...


Since help requires time and effort then why should those who put in the effort always be forced into being "nice" to people who expect to be spoon fed? They want to be treated with respect, so they can go earn it surely? You won't be respected being lazy or ignorant...


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> But what we are saying is that why should we spoon feed people. They have a brain and resources needed so why not use them then ask questions when you have at least tried. By looking for it yourself you are going to learn a lot more from it than if someone just tells you.


How about we mix this up and you put common names into the ads instead of any scientific names and see if they can try and guess what it is from that :whistling2:


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Like I said, the whole thing sprouted from just adding a single name to a post.

I really have lost interest in it now, you can call it defeat, but this has amused me quite a bit.

Well done everyone for being so well constructed in their arguments.

Gold stars for everyone.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> How about we mix this up and you put common names into the ads instead of any scientific names and see if they can try and guess what it is from that :whistling2:


Have you read anything that has been said????? Doing that will teach people nothing except the importance of using scientific names rather than common names.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Have you read anything that has been said????? Doing that will teach people nothing except the importance of using scientific names rather than common names.


I was being sarcastic.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> Why not?
> 
> I really am not entirely bothered, like I've said twice, it's the principle of the whole 'look for it yourself' arrogance to start with. I really have nothing behind the argument, other than providing more information is clearly going to be more helpful, even if it's just for people starting off.


Pretty much exactly what Selina said, I got annoyed with someone the other day as their idea of research was just ask every single question on the forum. I know I did a while back but I also did a hell of a lot of reading, and found most things out for myself. I was just a bit of a post whore, which I like to think I've cut down a bit on now. :blush:

But it's not really more information, it's misinformation, a red leg isn't any more helpful that using B. Smithi. In fact it can get more confusing, like was it a B auratum they meant?


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> Pretty much exactly what Selina said, I got annoyed with someone the other day as their idea of research was just ask every single question on the forum. I know I did a while back but I also did a hell of a lot of reading, and found most things out for myself. I was just a bit of a post whore, which I like to think I've cut down a bit on now. :blush:
> 
> But it's not really more information, it's misinformation, a red leg isn't any more helpful that using B. Smithi. In fact it can get more confusing, like was it a B auratum they meant?


That eemmmiiiillllyyyy person, who clearly has an oddly spelt name, or her tongue stuck to the bottom of her mouth, has been doing that :whip:

I know that, it was PRINCIPLE!!

Question though, why did they bother with common names in the first place?


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> How about we mix this up and you put common names into the ads instead of any scientific names and see if they can try and guess what it is from that :whistling2:


Because it would be a guess .


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Mutley.100 said:


> Because it would be a guess .


To answer something I've wondered for a long time, why do you leave a space at the end of every sentence, then follow it with a dot?

It looks strange to me...


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't know if it's just me but google is only really useful for finding information on more common species, and even then it can be confusing. So much different information, how is a newbie supposed to know what is right and wrong? It's also fairly difficult to find information for more uncommon species, this is where forums can be so useful, someone can usually help you or point you to particular websites that you may not have found. I've also noticed forums come up quite a lot so why can't they be used, isn't what they're for? To help and discuss? If you're that bothered about people being spoon fed then don't look and don't reply.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> To answer something I've wondered for a long time, why do you leave a space at the end of every sentence, then follow it with a dot?
> 
> It looks strange to me...


Why are you stalking him enough to realise that lol


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> Like I said, the whole thing sprouted from just adding a single name to a post.
> 
> I really have lost interest in it now, you can call it defeat, but this has amused me quite a bit.
> 
> ...


So...this discussion has just been pointless? 



:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Why are you stalking him enough to realise that lol


Doesn't it make you wonder too?



GRB said:


> So...this discussion has just been pointless?
> 
> [URL="http://www.trollface.net/trollface.png%3C/a%3E"]imageimage[/URL]
> 
> :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Yes. Like a blunt pencil, dear GRB!

I also want this kilt picture you promised me 1000 years ago.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> So...this discussion has just been pointless?
> 
> [URL="http://www.trollface.net/trollface.png%3C/a%3E"]imageimage[/URL]
> 
> :Na_Na_Na_Na:


In other words they have finally realised they are just going around in circles and have given up


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> Doesn't it make you wonder too?


Cant say i have ever noticed tbh


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> In other words they have finally realised they are just going around in circles and have given up


I KNEW you would say this!

I've given up because I need to really write a CV. Maybe I can put "annoying" as one of my traits. Hmm...


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Cant say i have ever noticed tbh


But now you noticed, doesn't it make you wonder?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> I KNEW you would say this!
> 
> I've given up because I need to really write a CV. Maybe I can put "annoying" as one of my traits. Hmm...


Or lazy


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> But now you noticed, doesn't it make you wonder?


Nope cant say it does.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Or lazy


I'm not lazy 



selina20 said:


> Nope cant say it does.


But you subconsciously just added a full stop to your sentence... you very rarely do that.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Freakinfreak said:


> I'm not lazy
> 
> 
> 
> But you subconsciously just added a full stop to your sentence... you very rarely do that.


The fact you are realising these things suggests you really have too much time on your hands.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

selina20 said:


> The fact you are realising these things suggests you really have too much time on your hands.


But not any time to learn binomials.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

selina20 said:


> The fact you are realising these things suggests you really have too much time on your hands.


Or maybe I'm just observant...

ANOTHER FULL STOP!

Makes me think that you really want this drivelling conversation to be over. I annoy you, don't I? You want to slap me, don't you?


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Freakinfreak said:


> But you subconsciously just added a full stop to your sentence... you very rarely do that.


At least 8 out of your last 12 posts contain an ellipsis...

Do you subconsciously have difficulty in finishing things once you have started them?


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> Or maybe I'm just observant...
> 
> ANOTHER FULL STOP!
> 
> Makes me think that you really want this drivelling conversation to be over. I annoy you, don't I? You want to slap me, don't you?


Too be fair you hardly every come on this section, then you randomly decided to come and tell us we're doing things wrong and need to change the way we go about our forum business... :whistling2:


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

garlicpickle said:


> At least 8 out of your last 12 posts contain an ellipsis...
> 
> Do you subconsciously have difficulty in finishing things once you have started them?


No, I consciously have difficulty in finishing things. It's a disease.



vivalabam said:


> Too be fair you hardly every come on this section, then you randomly decided to come and tell us we're doing things wrong and need to change the way we go about our forum business... :whistling2:


I actually came to say hello to you :flrt:


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## samhack (Jan 11, 2009)

vivalabam said:


> I do use common names when it's an irrelevant post, sometimes it's just easier. For example my salmon pink just ate a cricket, wonderful. It doesn't overly matter if I meant a L. Klugi or a L. parahybana. If on the other hand, I was worried about something that was going on with it, I would use the scientific name.


I'll second you on that.

I think I would find common names much harder when searching for care info. Someone's favorite rose hair (I really hate this common name) is someone else's Chile rose which is someone else's Common Chilean tarantula. As far as you would be considered the care sheet wouldn't apply to your T as to you it isn't the same species. But it is. 

Except a NCF G.rosea is now a G.porteri lol. Damn I'm still not getting used to that.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

So then... WHY, were there common names in the first place if they're so useless?


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

I genuinely find it rather refreshing that its not me in the hatred fireing line for a change. Ah well maybe later or tomorrow.


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> I genuinely find it rather refreshing that its not me in the hatred fireing line for a change. Ah well maybe later or tomorrow.


Does it feel nice? 

I think you're either really attractive in real life, or really, really ugly.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> I genuinely find it rather refreshing that its not me in the hatred fireing line for a change. Ah well maybe later or tomorrow.


I'm sure you won't miss out for long


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Baldpoodle said:


> I genuinely find it rather refreshing that its not me in the hatred fireing line for a change. Ah well maybe later or tomorrow.


Are you missing it then XD


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Freakinfreak said:


> So then... WHY, were there common names in the first place if they're so useless?


good question and I also happen to belive they are not useless. 
I think the reason why they came about is to convey some species of popularly kept spider over to people who only have a passing interest for the animals. 
The main problem comes from the fact that many species seem to have more than one common name, so in effect you are often trying to learn more rather than the one scientiffic name.
It also doesn't help if certin dealers just make up their own common names as there doen't seem to be a set standerd for them if you see how I mean.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> So then... WHY, were there common names in the first place if they're so useless?


the scientific names were there first, the 'common' names were just nicknames, mostly added by the pet trade to make their product more saleable to the masses

like i said earlier, what about the species that dont have common names? should we just make some rubbish up ? after all, thats what the retailers did :lol2:


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Freakinfreak said:


> Does it feel nice?
> 
> I think you're either really attractive in real life, or really, really ugly.


not really and yes.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Are you missing it then XD


 always


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> good question and I also happen to belive they are not useless.
> I think the reason why they came about is to convey some species of popularly kept spider over to people who only have a passing interest for the animals.
> The main problem comes from the fact that many species seem to have more than one common name, so in effect you are often trying to learn more rather than the one scientiffic name.
> It also doesn't help if certin dealers just make up their own common names as there doen't seem to be a set standerd for them if you see how I mean.


I think the common names sound pretty cool. Like a Flame Knee... how cool must that tarantula feel?! It's so hot, it's on fiiiiire. 

Are you really, really ugly?



[email protected] said:


> the scientific names were there first, the 'common' names were just nicknames, mostly added by the pet trade to make their product more saleable to the masses
> 
> like i said earlier, what about the species that dont have common names? should we just make some rubbish up ? after all, thats what the retailers did :lol2:


I think there should be a spider called Steve. Find a spider with no common name, and give it one. Steve.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Freakinfreak said:


> I think the common names sound pretty cool. Like a Flame Knee... how cool must that tarantula feel?! It's so hot, it's on fiiiiire.
> 
> Are you really, really ugly?
> .


oh yes thats fonzy cool that is.

and yes


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Baldpoodle said:


> oh yes thats fonzy cool that is.
> 
> and yes


I don't believe that you're really ugly.

Hmm, you seem like the sort of person who is probably attractive, but would never admit or think it.
Or maybe you are really, really ugly.

Does an actual picture exist of you that isn't just an image used from google to put in place of an actual photograph of your actual face?


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

vivalabam said:


> If I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't sell to someone who doesn't know the scientific name, shows they haven't done research and hasn't taken the time to learn about the species.





selina20 said:


> As i see it if you had done the research on the species beforehand you would know what the scientific name is.


Brilliant! you guys are perfect!

How many people have gone to an invert show, seen something they've never seen before, asked about basic care, and bought it. Then done their research back home. Months later still don't know the scientific name, because basically they dont care, they know the husbandry.

Basically you guys are saying unless you don't know the scientific name, then you cant keep a spider! Rubbish. I've kept loads of T's, never lost one. I guarantee I didn't know all the scientific names, but I did my research.

God this place gets preachy with lots of perfect people!


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Jamie said:


> Brilliant! you guys are perfect!
> 
> How many people have gone to an invert show, seen something they've never seen before, asked about basic care, and bought it. Then done their research back home. Months later still don't know the scientific name, because basically they dont care, they know the husbandry.
> 
> Basically you guys are saying unless you don't know the scientific name, then you cant keep a spider! Rubbish. I've kept loads of T's, never lost one. I guarantee I didn't know all the scientific names, but I did my research.


Is that a real camel in your signature?

And don't argue with them, because you go round in circles and are lazy to not research all the names...

BUT, I don't want to go onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, too much typing.


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Quick off topic...

Yes it's a real camel, I went to Tunisia in May/June and that picture was taken in the Sahara desert


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

Jamie said:


> Quick off topic...
> 
> Yes it's a real camel, I went to Tunisia in May/June and that picture was taken in the Sahara desert


No way! I was in Tunisia like... a month ago, and there was a camel at the hotel, along with people dressed as clowns... and clapping. They were really quite odd in hindsight.

Did you get sand in all sorts of places? That's the only bit I don't like about sandy locations.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Freakinfreak said:


> Is that a real camel in your signature?
> 
> And don't argue with them, because you go round in circles and are lazy to not research all the names...
> 
> BUT, I don't want to go onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, too much typing.


everyone else had to, including me :lol2:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

OMG...i go off line for 3 hours and this thread gets sabotaged...LOL

so now i know i need to do my research before i buy anything..LOL
in fairness tho... i did google and it said my enqueery was not valid so :Na_Na_Na_Na:

LOL

but can amyone actually tell me of any good mantids for a newbie?
no one has answered that yet!


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## Freakinfreak (May 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> everyone else had to, including me :lol2:


 
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it, trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it, charge it, point it, zoom it, press it, snap it, work it, quick - erase it, write it, cut it, paste it, save it, load it, check it, quick - rewrite it, plug it, play it, burn it, rip it, drag and drop it, zip - unzip it, lock it, fill it, call it, find it, view it, code it, jam - unlock it, surf it, scroll it, pause it, click it, cross it, crack it, switch - update it, name it, rate it, tune it, print it, scan it, send it, fax - rename it, touch it, bring it, pay it, watch it, turn it, leave it, start - format it.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Jamie said:


> Brilliant! you guys are perfect!
> 
> How many people have gone to an invert show, seen something they've never seen before, asked about basic care, and bought it. Then done their research back home. Months later still don't know the scientific name, because basically they dont care, they know the husbandry.
> 
> ...


But those people would have been invert keeps for a while, they still know what it is and how to care for it. We're talking total newbie terms as in never kept a spider, and in my opinion they shouldn't be buying one if they don't know how to care for it. 

I guarantee you do know the scientific names, you can't google the common name and do adequate research, without coming across a scientific name with it somewhere. You may not think of the scientific name, or use it when talking, but I can be pretty certain that you would know the scientific name if it was presented to you. 

We're not saying we're perfect at all, we're trying to help the new keepers, if they learn the scientific names it will be much easier for them long term. It's honestly not as bad as people make out, I came in to the spider hobby 8 months ago knowing nothing, I didn't even know about a G.Rosea, now I know a fair amount of spider species, it's very rare these days when I have to google a genus.


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> OMG...i go off line for 3 hours and this thread gets sabotaged...LOL
> 
> so now i know i need to do my research before i buy anything..LOL
> in fairness tho... i did google and it said my enqueery was not valid so :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> ...


There's a topic on the forum pretty close to the top asking about mantids, I answered a fair amount of qiuestions there, if you want PM me, or make another topic if you want peoples opinions. (the answers will get lost in this one I feel!)


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

vivalabam said:


> But those people would have been invert keeps for a while, they still know what it is and how to care for it. We're talking total newbie terms as in never kept a spider, and in my opinion they shouldn't be buying one if they don't know how to care for it.
> 
> I guarantee you do know the scientific names, you can't google the common name and do adequate research, without coming across a scientific name with it somewhere. You may not think of the scientific name, or use it when talking, but I can be pretty certain that you would know the scientific name if it was presented to you.
> 
> We're not saying we're perfect at all, we're trying to help the new keepers, if they learn the scientific names it will be much easier for them long term. It's honestly not as bad as people make out, I came in to the spider hobby 8 months ago knowing nothing, I didn't even know about a G.Rosea, now I know a fair amount of spider species, it's very rare these days when I have to google a genus.


Fair point 

Sometimes on the forum it doesn't come accross as constructive advice, more preachy and condescending, which I have a real bee in my bonnet about! Maybe thats because you cant read the 'tone' of a post, and thus it gets mis-interpreted.


----------

