# Bearded Dragon Blood in Stools



## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

Hello guys, worried dragon Mum here. Looking for a bit of advice, thanks. 

Nessie is a 3 1/2 year old female bearded dragon. I've had her for a year now She has a history of metabolic bone disease from her previous owner. She's housed in a 2ft by 4 ft viv and is the only dragon I own. Her cool end is 25 degrees and her hot end is 40 degrees. I feed her on mealworms and medium locusts. 

About 5 months ago we discovered that she had 3 different types of parasites, which she was treated and given the all clear for. The past few weeks, I've been worried about my girl. I discovered blood in some of her stools, she was lethargic and didn't have any energy or enthusiasm for life. She showed no signs of shedding. So I took her to the vet, thinking the parasites were back. 

Her past two stool samples have been clean. We strapped a thermometer to her back, which took her temperature every three minutes. The results showed that she was only peaking at 35 degrees and the vet thought it was a temperature issue. I upped her vitamins, put her on probiotic powder and added electrolyte water to her baths. We decided to see how it goes.

Today, she has excreted twice and each stool has had a significant amount of bright red blood. She is still lethargic and refuses to bask, unless I put her in the basking area. Even then, she can only stand to be there for a maximum of 5 minutes before she decides that it is too much. This is with the reduced 60w from 70w, because I thought that the 70w may be too intense for her. 
Her appetite has not slowed and she is eating well. Generally, she produces a stool most days of the week. And by the way, I do think she is getting ready to shed now, but I don't know what relevance this has to her behaviour, if any. 

Also, I know she needs to go back to the vet. But I can't take her until Tuesday and I'm worried. Looking for advice, thanks all.


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

Is the dragon struggling to defecate? It could be somthing as simply as having to strain excessivly which would be diet related. Is there undigested food in the stool?

Other than that it would possibly suggest kidney or liver issues or possibly or maybe somthing with the pancreas. 

In all honesty I would get it to the vet sooner as it needs medical treatment.


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

supatips said:


> Is the dragon struggling to defecate? It could be something as simply as having to strain excessively which would be diet related. Is there undigested food in the stool?
> 
> Other than that it would possibly suggest kidney or liver issues or possibly or maybe something with the pancreas.
> 
> In all honesty I would get it to the vet sooner as it needs medical treatment.


She doesn't seem to be struggling and her stools appear to be fairly well formed. I haven't found any undigested food either. 

Yes, I was worried it might be something more serious like that. But you must understand, appointments with exotic specialists are very limited down here in the country. It's almost the weekend and that doesn't help.


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

Mosherchick said:


> She doesn't seem to be struggling and her stools appear to be fairly well formed. I haven't found any undigested food either.
> 
> Yes, I was worried it might be something more serious like that. But you must understand, appointments with exotic specialists are very limited down here in the country. It's almost the weekend and that doesn't help.


Don't they have emergency appointments, all the vets near me do them

It wasn't a critiscm of you as I'd no idea on your previous post why you couldn't get there before tuesday. More of a suggestion. 

I doubt very much anyone on here will be able to help much if I'm honest, due to the fact it could be so many things causing it. Try and get a stool sample for the vet too.


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

supatips said:


> Don't they have emergency appointments, all the vets near me do them
> 
> It wasn't a critiscm of you as I'd no idea on your previous post why you couldn't get there before tuesday. More of a suggestion.
> 
> I doubt very much anyone on here will be able to help much if I'm honest, due to the fact it could be so many things causing it. Try and get a stool sample for the vet too.


To be honest, I have no idea. I'll look into it, as a lot can happen in 4 days. 

Yeah, sorry. I guess I'm highly strung right now. 

Okay, thank for the advice.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Mosherchick said:


> Hello guys, worried dragon Mum here. Looking for a bit of advice, thanks.
> 
> Nessie is a 3 1/2 year old female bearded dragon. I've had her for a year now She has a history of metabolic bone disease from her previous owner. She's housed in a 2ft by 4 ft viv and is the only dragon I own. Her cool end is 25 degrees and her hot end is 40 degrees. I feed her on mealworms and medium locusts.
> 
> ...


Hi, the short answer is you need to take the dragon to a decent vet for a thorough examination asap.
Why did you put a thermometer on the lizard`s back, you cannot take a core body temp that way?
How are you measuring the surface temp of the basking object and what is that figure? If the ambient (air) temp is 40c it might be too hot considering the basking surface only needs to range between approx. 38 to 45c, meaning you provide a relatively large basking site where the animal can move from directly under the heat bulb/s and still thermoregulate (I would suggest using two lower wattage bulbs so they heat more of the body evenly).
Which vitamins/other supplementation are you using and how often, lastly, when`s the last time she was gravid?
EDIT: Sorry, more questions (in order to get a better idea of how you keep her); why are you bathing the dragon and how often do you do that, plus what`s the humidity range, and can you show a few photos of the whole enclosure? Thanks!


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

murrindindi said:


> Hi, the short answer is you need to take the dragon to a decent vet for a thorough examination asap.
> Why did you put a thermometer on the lizard`s back, you cannot take a core body temp that way?
> How are you measuring the surface temp of the basking object and what is that figure? If the ambient (air) temp is 40c it might be too hot considering the basking surface only needs to range between approx. 38 to 45c, meaning you provide a relatively large basking site where the animal can move from directly under the heat bulb/s and still thermoregulate (I would suggest using two lower wattage bulbs so they heat more of the body evenly).
> Which vitamins/other supplementation are you using and how often, lastly, when`s the last time she was gravid?
> EDIT: Sorry, more questions (in order to get a better idea of how you keep her); why are you bathing the dragon and how often do you do that, plus what`s the humidity range, and can you show a few photos of the whole enclosure? Thanks!



Hi murrindindi, 

I should have been clearer on that, sorry. The vet was trying a new diagnostic tool out, which involved strapping something that looked like a battery to her that took her temp every 3 minutes. The results showed that her peak temperature was 35 degrees. 

I have a temp gun, so I can measure both on the log and around it accurately. The top of the log is 41-42 and generally around the log its 35-38. 

I dust her veg with a multi vitamin once a week and dust her veg with calcium twice a week. I don't know the brand and can't check right now, as i'm not at home. But at the vet's recommendation I bought an electrolyte vitamin water, which I have been using to bathe her in a small kitchen sink. I try to bath her twice a week, and generally in our full size bath. 

She hasn't carried eggs since I had her, but when she had the all clear parasite-wise in February, I was told she was ovulating. 

I'm not sure about humidity levels. And since I'm not at home right now, I can't post a pic of the setup. But as soon as I can, I'll update this post. 

Thanks for responding.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Mosherchick said:


> Hi murrindindi,
> 
> I should have been clearer on that, sorry. The vet was trying a new diagnostic tool out, which involved strapping something that looked like a battery to her that took her temp every 3 minutes. The results showed that her peak temperature was 35 degrees.
> 
> ...


If 35c was an accurate measurement of her core temp it`s acceptable. 
Bathing the animal in vitamin water won`t help in any way unless she ingests it, does she?


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

murrindindi said:


> If 35c was an accurate measurement of her core temp it`s acceptable.
> Bathing the animal in vitamin water won`t help in any way unless she ingests it, does she?


She does when I drip it down her nose. But she doesn't freely drink and when I spray her food, she has difficulty grabbing things with her tongue.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Mosherchick said:


> She does when I drip it down her nose. But she doesn't freely drink and when I spray her food, she has difficulty grabbing things with her tongue.


I don`t quite understand, is there a problem with her tongue?


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

murrindindi said:


> I don`t quite understand, is there a problem with her tongue?


No, it's not an issue. Just an observation. When the food is wet her sticky tongue is much less effective. 

In short, yes, she is ingesting the vitamin water with encouragement. Thanks for taking the time to help, it sounds like I really just need to get her seen to.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Mosherchick said:


> No, it's not an issue. Just an observation. When the food is wet her sticky tongue is much less effective.
> 
> In short, yes, she is ingesting the vitamin water with encouragement. Thanks for taking the time to help, it sounds like I really just need to get her seen to.


They don`t have a "sticky" tongue as such (not like a Chameleon), although it does help with food ingestion once the item`s inside the mouth, and it`s obviously used for taste/smell purposes. 
I think a few photos might be of some help whenever you can get them up, at least to get an idea of the setup itself.
Maybe the vet could take an x-ray or do an ultrasound scan?


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

The vet appointment is an emergency, i do not know of any vet that doesnt offer an emergency appointment service, however they do tend to charge more for it.

Blood in the stools is a symptom of some quite serious conditions and needs immediate attention.

The other thing to look at is husbandry and feeding.
You need to be checking basking spot surface temperatures (you mentioned a log as the basking spot, this isnt really ideal, i would recommend some sort of natural stone surface) and cool end temps need to dip low enough. If the log itself is only reaching 40/42 i would thing that theres a possibility your temps are too low, wood tends to hold onto heat, so i would expect around 45/47C. Stone if far better and holds/reflects heat in a much better way. Basking spot should have a surface temp approx 45C.
This is vital to thermoregulation, which the animal needs to be able to do. If unable to properly thermoregulate there is a massive knock on effect to a huge amount of the animals biology, including how its digestion works.

The other thing to look at are humidity levels, you shoud have around 35 to 45% humidity in the cool end, personally i would always measure the cool end for humidty, you will get a gradient naturally forming if the viv is sufficiently long enough as the basking area will have lower humidty due to the increase in direct heat. There also needs to be things like cork bark/driftwood/hides of some sort that will create pockets with higher humidity they can take shelter in. I would also look at a routine of misting the vivarium in the morning to create peaks of humidity, it will go up to around 60% or so and then slowly drop back down over an hour or so, this is similar to what they would experience in the wild.

In the wild these animals do things like digging burrows or hiding in dark/shaded areas which aid in keeping away from predators, but also give shelter from the elements. This again contributes towards maintaining hydration which also has a big impact on things like digestive health.

I would look at getting timers for the UV and the basking bulb, and check they are on a suitable schedule, and i would look at your feeding habits as well as what you use to supplement.
Also remember that UV bulbs dont last forever, depending on the brand, some are longer lived than others. Now is a very good time to be re-checking all your equipment and seeing if anything is due to be replaced.
If youve had multiple different paracites i would also look at what substrate you use, what decoration you use and the possibility of throwing most of it away if you havent already done so, particularly if the paracites were microbial like coccidia. The viv would need a proper deep clean with a good disinfectant (reptile friendly, for example F10). You may find its a good idea anyway given the current circumstances.

As already mentioned, bathing isnt really a useful practice and only serves to keep the animal clean, if they are already dehydrated the animal will sometimes drink from the water, but they would tend to avoid standing water/pools of water and will naturally favor running water or things like rainfall which is why dripping it onto the snout tends to be far more effective at encouraging them to drink or pouring water directly in front of them into a small bowl.

Pumping the animal full of multivitamins can also be detrimental if you over do it, it all depends what you are using, and i would look at re-evaluating what you actually feed and trying to ensure a good wide variety of plant and insect rather than just increasing things like supplements. Supplements are beneficial when used properly, but are no match for a properly varied diet.

Whatever you do, you need to get the animal to a proper reptile vet, and do it today if possible. It's also likely to be a good idea to get fecals and bloodwork done as well as an x-ray so you can get a much better picture of her current status.
While it is unwell, raising the temps of the viv by a degree or two could also be beneficial, but talk to the vet about it.


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## Mosherchick (Jul 11, 2015)

Thank you so much for your in depth response, Azastral. I will go through each and every point. 

And I'll post pics, just for reference.


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## lewleary (Sep 28, 2016)

And I'll post pics, just for reference.[/QUOTE]
where are these pics ? another tearaway : victory:


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## lewleary (Sep 28, 2016)

Mosherchick said:


> Thank you so much for your in depth response, Azastral. I will go through each and every point.
> 
> And I'll post pics, just for reference.


?:devil:


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