# Captive perch or pike?



## tozhan

Hey all, Just wondering if anyone here keeps freshwater perch or pike in an aquarium? (or if it is even legal).

I have no intention of doing it, just curious :whistling2: I dont even keep fish, usually hang out in the gecko forums...

Thx!


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## Moogloo

Its not reallt feasible... You would need to have a HUGE tank (especially for a pike!) for fish that wouldnt enjoy being on view the whole time...

The filtration you would need would be something massive...

But biggest problem other than that is you would need to be running a chiller on the tank to keep it cool enough. These are cold water and high oxygen species and its extortionate to provide that... the air pump less of a problem... but a chiller might well cost you upwards of £1k..


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## spottymint

I have seen Perch for sale in one aquatic shop, can't remeber which one.

But I doubt they would be easy to keep as mentioned.

Both species you mention are predatory, so feeding may be an issue to consider.


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## Jack the kipper

Yes and yes is the short answer.

Long answer:

Pike would obviouly be a bit of a challenge indoors because of their size and diets, and Perch are hardly one for begginers, but you can definately keep Perch indoors in large tanks.

I keep mine indoors and out, depending on the time of year. I rear fry netted from the pond indoors most years and i've kept their large 1lb parents indoors for short periods of time too. They are adaptable to a pretty wide range of food (worms, frozen prawns/fish etc and even pellet food sometimes) and water conditions, VERY easy to tame and can be hugely entertaining at feeding time... by far my favorite fish.

You wont need a chiller either, not if you have the tank at ground level away from any radiators (or just turn them off). I've never had any heat/oxygen issues indoors anyway, even during the hotter summer months..... if there's such a thing as a hot summer month in the UK :lol2:


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## Frase

Jack the Kipper,

Out of pure curiousity (I know i know it killed the cat!), what size do your captive pike grow to. A syndicate I'm on has one in excess of 23lb. What pond size and fish size do you get?


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## Berber King

Used to keep Perch years ago at an aquarium i worked at,did really well in a large tank,stunning fish.Earthworms initially,but they would take dead frozen fish if you teased them with it.No chiller,just good oxygenation.


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## benh

Frase said:


> Jack the Kipper,
> 
> Out of pure curiousity (I know i know it killed the cat!), what size do your captive pike grow to. A syndicate I'm on has one in excess of 23lb. What pond size and fish size do you get?


 
Pike can go much bigger than that:whistling2:


I have perch in my pond, and they keep the goldfish population in check quite nicely. Most of my fry tends to get eaten, as i believe do some of the tadpoles. 

I dont really feed them in my pond though, not specifically at least. Due to the natural style of my pond, they tend to do okay on the abundant bug population. I am also an angler, and as such, excess maggots are thrown in regularly, as well as occasional worms, and they will usually be seen eating any halibut/trout pellets i throw in. I have caught perch on halibuts several times while out fishing!


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## Arcadiajohn

I've kept perch no issues at all! And yes you can buy them legally! But I don't think you can remove them from a wild waterway. 

The nicest I have seen was at Whalf aquatics they had an absolute monster perch in there!!

Another good one in saw was an 8foot shallow tank with very fast flow from one end to the other creating a very fast river effect with barbel in the current and a few gudgeon and bullheads and alike. Very, very nice to look at but not for beginners I would think.

John.


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## Frase

lol ben, i am aware of that and am demonstrating that even smaller specimen can be found at huge weights! never done piking myself, although i enjoyed my first ever 2 jacks last sunday, nice experience and change from carping.

I'd definately say attempt perch, if any. They grow to little monsters themselves but their space requirements a lot easier to achieve that a pikes 

that being said, perch look good on the bank, dont know how i'd feel watching it in my tank all day though ....


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## fishboy

As long as you have a rod licence you are allowed to keep a certain number of fish under a certain size (Doesn't apply to privately owned waters obviously - i'm talking rivers). I'm assuming what you do with them is up to you.


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## benh

Frase said:


> that being said, perch look good on the bank, dont know how i'd feel watching it in my tank all day though ....


having kept mine in a tank for a couple of weeks while really small, they are fascinating. the aggression was brilliant at feeding time, they would really launch themselves at the food as it dropped through the water column, barging each other out of the way to get to it first. I was feeding maggots, pinkies and worm chop, with some larger pieces of worm, in a tank that was as much pond weed as water. they like to hide, given the opportunity.


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## Frase

I imagine it would have been nice to watch in that sense.

Last few weekends i've been out maggot drowning feeding them in the shallows (in hopes of attracting carp come nightfall) its fun to watch from the bank how they react and such.


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## Jack the kipper

Hello Frase, i've no idea how big Pike can get i'm sorry. I've only ever personally seen pikelets and juveniles. Big enough to gobble up my largest female Perch though i bet! lol

Pike are a lake/river species really, that's why i wont keep them.

Perch are too but they're also pond specialists by nature and, with the exception of Rudd, are probably more ecologically suited to garden fishponds than any of the usual suspects.. Goldfish, Carp, Tench, Orfe etc, even Sticklebacks and Minnows.


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## Frase

Oh lol. I know about pike i must have just midred your post about keeping them. Read it as though you were keepingthem indoors. Thus enquiring about the size of them. nevermind 

Sorry to go off topic if i have done with regards to fishing etc. Point i was trying to get across is that pike probably arent the best of coldwater fish in the world to house in your typical garden pond or fish tank.


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## Jack the kipper

Agreed ..... Happy fishing:2thumb:


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## spidersteve

Moogloo said:


> Its not reallt feasible... You would need to have a HUGE tank (especially for a pike!) for fish that wouldnt enjoy being on view the whole time...
> 
> The filtration you would need would be something massive...
> 
> But biggest problem other than that is you would need to be running a chiller on the tank to keep it cool enough. These are cold water and high oxygen species and its extortionate to provide that... the air pump less of a problem... but a chiller might well cost you upwards of £1k..


You can make a chiller from a beer fridge! No need to spend a lot A chiller is a glorified fridge when you can make one with a thermostat set in reverse to switch on when temp gets too high. I've kept Roach, Rudd, Gudgeon together in an aquarium with no problems.


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## Mynki

I've only skimmed the thread, but to summise :-

Both are fairly easy to keep.

You don't need a chiller for either species. An ordinary coldwater aquarium will be fine. While you may need one for coldwater marine, they are not needed for native freshwater fish.

Both can be kept legally. If purchased from a retailer which will have bought them from a fish farm.

If you hold an EA rod license I believe (This needs clarifying) you can remove pike from public waters, But not other species. As far as coarse fish go. Obviously game fish are treated differently. Certainly this used to be the case anyway.

You need a very large aquarium. Young perch are best kept in shoals but will grow quickly. Pike can grow well over 50lbs in huge lakes with massive food supplies, though 20 lbs is more common. A pond would be ideal, if you're not bothered about small fish in there and the fact that you'll hardly see it.

I did keep a smal jack pike once upon a time and then released it when it grew as a kid. This is now illegal!


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## Jack the kipper

Mynki said:


> You don't need a chiller for either species. An ordinary coldwater aquarium will be fine. While you may need one for coldwater marine, they are not needed for native freshwater fish.


 
Well, except for Brown Trout, Grayling, Charr and possibly one or two other species that i can't think of atm..... 

i would definately try keeping some Grayling if i had a chiller. My local river is full of them.


Staying on topic though: This is the ideal kind of setup a pet Pike should be kept in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVolQT7xyU


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## Graylord

I have kept a couple of small pike and muskellunge in the past ,bit boring to be honest they are not too bothered about room temp but like frequent water changes.

I've also kept Barbel as well they are nice fish but very predatory with smaller fish.


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> Well, except for Brown Trout, Grayling, Charr and possibly one or two other species that i can't think of atm.....
> 
> i would definately try keeping some Grayling if i had a chiller. My local river is full of them.
> 
> 
> Staying on topic though: This is the ideal kind of setup a pet Pike should be kept in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVolQT7xyU


 
I've kept trout without a chiller. My local trout farm Barlow Lakes doesn't chill the water during the height of summer in their trout lakes. They just increase the aeration.

The Derbyshire Wye can get warm, but the Grayling never die...

You may have a point with char. Only can you name one fish farm that sells them commercially. Doubt you'll ever see them for sale in an LFS...


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## Jack the kipper

Mynki, i was talking about needing them indoors at room temprature.

Think about it, If your local Trout lakes are having to artificially increase disolved oxygen levels in summer because of the heat, imagine what it would be like for Trout in a tank at sumertime room temperatures.


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## ianxxx

I have seen perch in aquaria before and they are stunning! Whilst small they like to shoal up, adults tend to be more solitary. I have seen stuffed perch about 6lbs but have never seen one over 4lbs, they grow over a foot long and they tend to be quite deep fish so would probally benefit from a tall tank. Tank mates would be problematical as they are fish eaters, any small fish would disapear over time. If you were setting up a tank with UK fish you could try tench ,crucian carp (they stay relatively small compared to other carp though the UK record is about 5lbs), roach, rudd,bream though you might have to rotate a few of them out as they can all grow biggish or if you fancy something unusual you could go for the common eel, i had one as a child and it became quite tame. Pike grow very long so you would need a very wide tank to let it swim without having problems turning, Uk record is over 50lbs and over 5ft long, even a small pike of about 8lbs is about 3ft.


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## Stary eyed

Try Zander instead of perch or pike.
They tolerate poorer water conditions and take dead fish as food readily.

Perch are fine, easy to keep while small, pike are very boring but do look impressive.

If you are looking to keep preds there are loads of tropical ones in the shops that will be fine in an indoor aquarium, you can leave the natives in peace then.:2thumb:


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## ianxxx

Stary eyed said:


> Try Zander instead of perch or pike.
> They tolerate poorer water conditions and take dead fish as food readily.
> 
> Perch are fine, easy to keep while small, pike are very boring but do look impressive.
> 
> If you are looking to keep preds there are loads of tropical ones in the shops that will be fine in an indoor aquarium, you can leave the natives in peace then.:2thumb:


I assume zander would be hard to source, i have never seen them for sale and they only live( as far as i know) in the Norfolk Broads and parts of the river Severn.


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## markn

ianxxx said:


> I assume zander would be hard to source, i have never seen them for sale and they only live( as far as i know) in the Norfolk Broads and parts of the river Severn.


I may be wrong but I think the river wye has Zander in. I'm a member of Ross on wye but I've never caught one, I have had every other species of fish native to those waters , you've got me wanting to try for one. 
Back to the subject though with a perch tank you could possibly get away gudgeon as tank mates. Being ground huggers they may just be able to stay out of the perchs mouth. Lol.


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## benh

there are zander in the trent as well these days. they are primarily nocturnal hunters, so may not be the greatest aquarium fish, but again grow quite large, relatively quickly.

I have been fortunate to catch some 3lb+ perch, and seen a couple of 4s landed. They are my favourite native by far, as they are so damn handsome, and a big one puts up a good fight on light tackle. 

They will happily take gudgeon though, with it being a highly successful bait in many waters perch are present in. 

Ianxxx, it is illegal to take the european (common) eel without a commercial fishing licence these days due to their rapid decline in numbers. this came about fairly recently, so i'm not suggesting you did anything wrong when you had yours.

SILVER bream would make good tank fish i suspect, as they max out around 2-3lb, smaller than many native fish. There is a guy selling them regularly on ebay.


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> Mynki, i was talking about needing them indoors at room temprature.
> 
> Think about it, If your local Trout lakes are having to artificially increase disolved oxygen levels in summer because of the heat, imagine what it would be like for Trout in a tank at sumertime room temperatures.


Jack, 

I don't have to 'think about it' as I understand that the trout at the cmmercial fishery I mention are kept in an artificial environment and stocked to unnaturally high levels as it's a put and take fishery. The trout are only in there a few days before being taken.

The additional oxygenation thing is employed by many commercial fisheries, both trout and coarse. During very hot periods, again due to overstocking.

In an aquarium you will have unnatural filtration / aeration anyway. And if you know what you're doing, sensible stocking ratios. So your point is moot.

P.S I couldn't find any info on char being kept in aquaria. But they're a deep water species, so it's not really surprising.


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## Jack the kipper

lol, my only point is that not all British natives can go without a chiller in an aquarium throughout the year. And i stand by it.


Not sure what your trying to prove regarding the Charr tbh, but why don't you give a Chris Rees @ the Environment Agency a call and ask him for a list of Charr farms/suppliers in the UK if you like.

I'd be surprised if there isn't a hatchery in the land producing Charr.


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> lol, my only point is that not all British natives can go without a chiller in an aquarium throughout the year. And i stand by it.
> 
> 
> Not sure what your trying to prove regarding the Charr tbh, but why don't you give a Chris Rees @ the Environment Agency a call and ask him for a list of Charr farms/suppliers in the UK if you like.
> 
> I'd be surprised if there isn't a hatchery in the land producing Charr.


For the ornamental fish trade? Doubt it. But if there is, show me...

You might stand by your point. You're simply wrong though.


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## Jack the kipper

It didn't get my Perch in the ornamental fish trade, Mynki. I phoned the Environment Agency. I'd do the same if i wanted some Charr too.


Burp!


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> It didn't get my Perch from in the ornamental fish trade, Mynki. I phoned the Environment Agency. I'd do the same if i wanted some Charr too.
> 
> 
> Burp!


Who said you did?

I asked who supplies char for the ornamental fish trade. Big difference. 

I have commercial interests in the trade. I've seen all kinds of weird and wonderful, uber rare species offered. But never deep water salmonoids, hence the question. I don't think they'd survive very long at all in your average aquarium though.


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## Jack the kipper

lol, this is getting silly... the term "Deepwater Salmonid" doesn't even exist!. 


Save it for a "can I keep Trout in a tank?" thread mate.


I've got better things to do....like feeding a hungry bunch of fingerling Perch


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> lol, this is getting silly... the term "Deepwater Salmonid" doesn't even exist!.
> 
> 
> Save it for a "can I keep Trout in a tank?" thread mate.
> 
> 
> I've got better things to do....like feeding a hungry bunch of fingerling Perch


You're right, I spelt it wrong. That would give a google warrior like yourself a headache! :lol2:


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## Frase

why the t'internet bickering!?

aint yall got fish to feed and clean and watch and enjoy?! lol


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## Jack the kipper

lol, Yes Frase.

But for the sake of any potential Trout keepers watching this( don't want them killing their fish), i had a flick though my copy of Freshwater Fisheries Management, 2nd edition (not google) and came up with these figures:

Optimum temperature for Brown Trout 14°C

Optimum temperature for Grayling 10-16°C

Both species do poorly when temperatures exceed 19-20°C


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## Mynki

Jack the kipper said:


> lol, Yes Frase.
> 
> But fot the sake of any potential Trout keepers watching this( don't want them killing their fish), i had a flick though my copy of Freshwater Fisheries Management, 2nd edition (not google) and came up with these figures:
> 
> Optimum temperature for Brown Trout 14°C
> 
> Optimum temperature for Grayling 10-16°C
> 
> Both species do poorly when temperature exceed 19-20°C


 
I agree, none of my temperate tanks exceed that though. Thing is trout make an uber crappy choice of fish for an aquarium. And are best left in their natural habitat. For reasons your book will possibly explain...


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## adamntitch

theres live pike on ebay just now


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## benh

adamntitch said:


> theres live pike on ebay just now


sadly, he's stating that they would be great for a coldwater aquarium. hopefully they wont sell, or will be bought by people with the means to care for them, ie a whopping great fishing pond.


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## ianxxx

Mynki said:


> Thing is trout make an uber crappy choice of fish for an aquarium. And are best left in their natural habitat. For reasons your book will possibly explain...


I think brown trout would be superb in an aquarium set up as a stream with power heads etc, they are colorful and pretty active.


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## wilkinss77

years ago, swallow aquatics in rayleigh had a large open topped concrete tank/raised indoor pond, abut 8'x3'x3', inside the entrance to their coldwater section. it was filtered, & had a notice above it saying 'danger-this fish bites. keep hands out!' i couldn't see anything in there- but, there was a concrete shelf hanging over one end with a planted goldfish tank set up on it, which cast a pitch back shadow over that end of the tank. so, i quickly dabbled my fingers in the water at the other end, & a torpedo-like shape shot out from the dark end- & there it was, a 30'' pike!


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## Mynki

ianxxx said:


> I think brown trout would be superb in an aquarium set up as a stream with power heads etc, they are colorful and pretty active.


They're also territorial and kill each other which is why they make poor aquarium fish.


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## benh

wilkinss77 said:


> years ago, swallow aquatics in rayleigh had a large open topped concrete tank/raised indoor pond, abut 8'x3'x3', inside the entrance to their coldwater section. it was filtered, & had a notice above it saying 'danger-this fish bites. keep hands out!' i couldn't see anything in there- but, there was a concrete shelf hanging over one end with a planted goldfish tank set up on it, which cast a pitch back shadow over that end of the tank. so, i quickly dabbled my fingers in the water at the other end, & a torpedo-like shape shot out from the dark end- & there it was, a 30'' pike!


While i'm sure i would have been amazed to see that, it also saddens me to think of it. I have seen pike much smaller than that make lunges far bigger than that tank chasing a bait. what a sad existence. I would probably want that for a single large perch and some feeders, let alone a pike. 

Was they live feeding? or just dropping in any casualties from the rest of their tanks?


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## wilkinss77

benh said:


> While i'm sure i would have been amazed to see that, it also saddens me to think of it. I have seen pike much smaller than that make lunges far bigger than that tank chasing a bait. what a sad existence. I would probably want that for a single large perch and some feeders, let alone a pike.
> 
> Was they live feeding? or just dropping in any casualties from the rest of their tanks?


not sure, since i only saw it that once- & after it scared the poop out of me by appearing out of the shadows, & my curiosity about what was in there was thus satisfied, i lost interest. my guess is that they had it on dead prey.


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## ianxxx

Mynki said:


> They're also territorial and kill each other which is why they make poor aquarium fish.


I have never kept trout in an aquarium so im not aware of this behavior, i have fly fished for thirty years and often see the smaller ones shoaled up whilst the larger ones tend to be more solitary. If they are that territorial how do the hatcheries keep the adults together? i am not having a go at you, im just interested. Also, is this aggression species limited, could you for instance keep a grayling in an aquarium with a trout?


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## fishboy

Mynki said:


> If you hold an EA rod license I believe (This needs clarifying) you can remove pike from public waters, But not other species. As far as coarse fish go. Obviously game fish are treated differently. Certainly this used to be the case anyway.


This is for thames region but it may differ in others. Look up your region here http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/31465.aspx

Section 5: Catch
i) The prohibition on taking undersized fish
Regional Byelaw 8
Made 23 August 1976
Confirmed and implemented 6 June 1978
• No person shall take away from any waters within
the area any fish of a kind and of a size less the
following:
Barbel 40cm Chub 30cm Rudd 20cm
Bleak 10cm Gudgeon 13cm Tench 25cm
Bream 30cm Perch 22cm Brown Trout 25cm
Carp 30cm Pike 60cm Dace 15cm
Crucian
Carp 18cm Roach 18cm Grayling 25cm
The size shall be determined by measuring from the tip
of the snout to the end of the tail fin.
This byelaw does NOT apply to the following:
• any undersized freshwater fish if kept alive in a
keepnet and returned alive to the water at the
point of capture not later than at the conclusion
of fishing;
• any undersized freshwater fish (not exceeding
twelve in any one day) for use as bait in the water
from which they were taken;
• any undersized fish for any specific purpose with
the previous consent in writing of the Authority.
ii) Bag limits
Regional Byelaw 9
Made 23 August 1976
Confirmed and implemented 6 June 1978
• No person without the previous consent in writing
of the Authority when fishing with rod and line shall
take away from any waters within the area in any
one day more than two fish of which not more than
one may be tench, carp, barbel, bream or pike.
This byelaw does NOT apply to the following:
• any enclosed reservoir, lake or pond into which or
from which fish cannot normally swim from or to
other waters;
• trout, zander or eels
The riparian owner has the right to prohibit the
removal of any fish. They cannot however exceed this
bag limit on waters where this byelaw applies.
iii) Restriction on movement of fish
Regional Byelaw 12
Made 10 March 1981
Confirmed and implemented 1 October 1981
• Whilst fishing or at the conclusion of fishing with
rod and line, the movement or transportation of any
fish by means of a keepnet or container of any kind,
other than fish permitted to be transported in
accordance with regional byelaws 5 i), 8, 9 and 12
is hereby prohibited.
iv) The weighing of fish
Regional Byelaw 13
Made 23 August 1976
Confirmed and implemented 6 June 1978
• Fish must be weighed as close as possible to the
point of capture.


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