# Mack Enigma crosses!



## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

hi hi hi guys

looking to get my pretty male Mack Enigma shortly...

in which case.... what do i get when i cross him with females:

Mack Enigma x creamsicle

Mack Enigma x Mack snow

Mack Enigma x Blizzard

Mack Enigma x Jungle Mack Snow (dont actually have this female yet - tis a maybe but im still curious)

cheers you guys :notworthy:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MACK ENIGMA X CREAMSICLE =.
Mack snow.
Mack snow enimga.
Mack snow hypo of strain.
Hypo of strain.
Hypo enigma of strain.
Normal.
Enigma.
Super snow.
Super snow enigma.


MACK ENIGMA X MACK SNOW =.
Mack snow.
Mack snow enigma.
Normal.
Enigma.
Super snow.
Super snow enimga.

MACK ENIGMA X BLIZZARD =.
Mack snow HET Blizzard.
Mack snow enigma HET Blizzard.
Normal HET Enigma.
Enigma HET Blizzard.


MACK ENIGMA X MACK SNOW JUNGLE =.
Mack snow POLY'HET Jungle.
Mack snow enigma POLY'HET Jungle.
Normal POLY'HET Jungle
Enigma POLY'HET Jungle.
Super snow POLY'HET Jungle.
Super snow enigma POLY'HET Jungle.

I think that's pretty much it.It's getting late :zzz::lol2:.If its Percentages you want as it's my strongest point.Ssthisto maybe your bst bet for that: victory:.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

gazz said:


> MACK ENIGMA X BLIZZARD =.
> Mack snow HET Blizzard.
> Mack snow enigma HET Blizzard.
> *Normal HET Enigma.*
> Enigma HET Blizzard.



Sorry Gazz but you must be slipping. You cant get Het Enigma:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Wouldnt mind knowing where the OP got his creamsicle from though?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

where i got my creamsicles from? (im a girl by the way.. worried if the pic makes me look like a man lol!!)

got her from big yellow gecko at doncaster a few sundays back and she is VERY pretty indeed ^_^ they have links on here and their own website and their geckos really are top knotch id recommend them to anyone!!

:no1:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

ALSO thank you all very much for that - would appreciate percentages if anyone knows??? would owe you all many hugs :notworthy:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Faith said:


> Sorry Gazz but you must be slipping. You cant get Het Enigma:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Well done :2thumb: it was you i was testing and you passed :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:.You try typing ENIGMA over & over and not slipping up :blush:.I did say i was half asleep whiles typing.


MACK ENIGMA X BLIZZARD =.
Mack snow HET Blizzard.
Mack snow enigma HET Blizzard.
Normal HET Blizzard.
Enigma HET Blizzard.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

chondro13 said:


> creamsicles


Just so you know if you want to CREAMSICLE is a trade name for a Mack snow super hypo tangerine.That why you can get super snows from a mack snow X creamsicle : victory: .


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

chondro13 said:


> would appreciate percentages if anyone knows???


I've added them in bold - they are based on the assumption that hypo is dominant and "super" is actually just a line-bred hypo. If hypo is co-dom with "super" *actually* being the super form, all offspring from the creamsicle will be hypo (plus whatever else they would be as well).



gazz said:


> MACK ENIGMA X CREAMSICLE =.
> *2/16 *Mack snow.
> *2/16 *Mack snow enimga.
> *2/16 *Mack snow hypo of strain.
> ...


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

wow thank you

im a biology degree student and i have always hated genetics!! doesnt help that i find enigmas hard to distingish.... :blush:

thank you very much guys :mf_dribble: cant wait to see the outcomes when my little ones get down to doing the dirty....


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

HadesDragons said:


> I've added them in bold - they are based on the assumption that hypo is dominant and "super" is actually just a line-bred hypo. If hypo is co-dom with "super" *actually* being the super form, all offspring from the creamsicle will be hypo (plus whatever else they would be as well).


Hypo is dominant and super hypo is hypo + line breed same as baldy,carrottail,tangerine.A German breeder bred his Super hypo X pure blood wild and got hypo & super hypo offspring.If hypo was co-dom there would have been NO! super hypo's it would have been 100%hypo.So hypo deffo IS NOT! co-dom.It work in a dominant way.IMO i think there also the single factor/double factor thing going on also.

Like the chart below.But this would take some test breeding.As people seem to be getting rusults like Hypo-type X Normal = 50%Normal/50%Hypo.But also seems Hypo X Normal = 100%Hypo is happening also.


Normal X Hypo-(single factor) = 1/2 Normal, 1/2 Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Normal X Hypo-(double factor) = all Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(single factor) = 1/4 Normal, 1/2 Hypo-(single factor), 1/4 Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = 1/2 Hypo-(single factor), 1/2 Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(double factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = all Hypo-(double factor) offspring.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

gazz said:


> Hypo is dominant and super hypo is hypo + line breed same as baldy,carrottail,tangerine.A German breeder bred his Super hypo X pure blood wild and got hypo & super hypo offspring.If hypo was co-dom there would have been NO! super hypo's it would have been 100%hypo.So hypo deffo IS NOT! co-dom.It work in a dominant way.IMO i think there also the single factor/double factor thing going on also.
> 
> Like the chart below.But this would take some test breeding.As people seem to be getting rusults like Hypo-type X Normal = 50%Normal/50%Hypo.But also seems Hypo X Normal = 100%Hypo is happening also.
> 
> ...


That's pretty interesting - I've never been able to find any "proof" either way with the hypo genetics; thanks for that. I knew about tangerine / carrot tail / jungle being poly-loci traits; it's just hypo that's the grey area...

By "single / double factor" do you mean "het / ****"? With a dominant gene that would give a similar inheritance pattern would it not?

e.g.


gazz said:


> Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(single factor) = 1/4 Normal, 1/2 Hypo-(single factor), 1/4 Hypo-(double factor) offspring.


Het-hypo x het-hypo = 1/4 normal, 1/2 het-hypo, 1/4 ****-hypo. Obviously with the hypo gene being dominant in leos that would give you 75% visual hypos, with 1/3 of them being **** and 2/3 being het...


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

HadesDragons said:


> By "single / double factor" do you mean "het / ****"? With a dominant gene that would give a similar inheritance pattern would it not?


Yes single factor HET.Double factor ****.I think it's a very bad idea to use the term HET with enigma as it lead to much confusion as we associate HET with Recessive.And to call a animal that visual for the morph that has no visual differance confuse's meny people.That have a hard enought time with genetics as it is.

Exsample

SF'Enigma X Albino = 50%Normal HET albino,50%SF'Enigma HET albino.
DF'Enigma X Albino = 100%SF'Enigma HET albino.

HET Enigma X Albino = 50%Normal HET albino,50%HET Enigma HET albino.
Enigma X Abino = 100%HET Enigma HET albino.

Can you see how confusing putting HET Enigma is.I think putting single factor(SF) & double factor(DF) is way more less confusing.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

gazz said:


> Yes single factor HET.Double factor ****.I think it's a very bad idea to use the term HET with enigma as it lead to much confusion as we associate HET with Recessive.And to call a animal that visual for the morph that has no visual differance confuse's meny people.That have a hard enought time with genetics as it is.
> 
> Exsample
> 
> ...


I can see both sides of the argument...

I find that most people assume Enigmas are **** because they are visual - the number of times I've heard people say "you can't get het enigma" or "this isn't a het because it looks enigma"... 

Raising awareness of the nature of inheritance might be a good thing, as it will let people understand things for themselves. I know if I was going to be investing substantial amounts of money into breeding stock I'd want to know the genetics behind it all first!

Using sf / df and het / **** to distinguish may be helpful to the casual curious observer, but most of them don't *need* to understand the way things work, as they won't be breeding the complex (ie non-recessive) morphs... It's a tough one...

I sometimes add a "(visual)" in front of things if I think there's a chance of it being misunderstood, e.g. "(visual) het enigma".


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## byglady (Jun 9, 2007)

chondro13 said:


> where i got my creamsicles from? (im a girl by the way.. worried if the pic makes me look like a man lol!!)
> 
> got her from big yellow gecko at doncaster a few sundays back and she is VERY pretty indeed ^_^ they have links on here and their own website and their geckos really are top knotch id recommend them to anyone!!
> 
> :no1:


Hi ya

Thank you for your kind comments were glad that you are happy with your gecko, would it be possible for you to send us a picture of him/her. We like to see their progress. You dont look like a man in the pic either, :lol2: Keep in touch.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

lol! thank you! have pm'd you with pics :no1:


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