# Proving who's a Daddy



## DesA (Aug 14, 2015)

There is an thin, outside chance, based on parental line and a high visual contrast, that my 0.1 Pastel Phantom is in fact a Pastel Phantom 44 (Daddy).

My questions are (and I'm new to Royals, so please speak to me as if I were a child of 5 or a Labrador)...

Can I prove this out (in a single generation?) without bankruptcy?!

1. Does the male have to be Het Daddy? I don't understand why, given that Daddy behaves as Dominant (and given that the 'super' DD looks normal).

2. Does the male need to be a BEL type (or a combo that includes one) since I read this is the only complex that shows up the Daddy 'enhancer' gene? But then I know of a Stinger Daddy so that doesn't add up (some posts are quite old so maybe things have moved on?)

As a Royal newbie it makes no sense to splash out bundles on a multigene male, but it would be good to make some pairing which *might* turn up something interesting.

I like Mojave from the BEL group, and Banana. Maybe toss me some example based on those genes so I don't spend another day on WOBP.

The problem I'm having using the genetic wizard is that it tells me what I might get, but I cannot tell if it will be visual/identifiable and 'prove' anything.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Welcome to the RFUK forums!

I am not sure whether this can be proven. If it is possible, it can be done in a single generation, but if may take more than one clutch. As for bankruptcy, you will have to judge whether finances will stretch.

The male should not be het daddy.

The male must have a gene in the BEL complex. I am not sure of the best choice, but it may be a lesser.

Mating a male lesser to a female pastel phantom 44 is a 2 gene pair project.

Female's genes:
gene pair 1 = a pastel gene and a normal gene (pastel/normal)
gene pair 2 = a phantom gene and a daddy gene (phantom/daddy)

Male's genes:
gene pair 1 = two normal genes (normal/normal)
gene pair 2 = a lesser gene and a normal gene (lesser/normal)

Mating result:
1/8 normal/normal, normal/daddy (normal looking, het daddy)
1/8 normal/normal, lesser/phantom (BEL or close to it)
1/8 normal/normal, lesser/daddy (platinum)
1/8 normal/normal, phantom/normal (phantom)
1/8 pastel/normal, normal/daddy (pastel)
1/8 pastel/normal, lesser/phantom (BEL or close to it)
1/8 pastel/normal, lesser/daddy (pastel platinum)
1/8 pastel/normal, phantom/normal (pastel phantom)

If the female is just a pastel phantom, then the platinum and pastel platinum babies in the above mating would be lessers and pastel lessers. So the question becomes how easy is it to distinguish between platinum, pastel platinum, lesser and pastel lesser royal pythons? I do not know that answer. Perhaps someone else on the forum knows. Perhaps someone else knows a member of the BEL complex that would produce a more obvious difference than the lesser gene does. 

Good luck.


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## DesA (Aug 14, 2015)

Thanks for that explanation. Faultless 

So, is the convention to talk of a morph being 'Daddy' when there is a visual effect and Het Daddy where the Daddy gene is known to be present? For example:

2014 #5 Stinger Het Daddy x Butter

Stinger Het Daddy (which cannot be visually expressed because no BEL gene) produced a visual Butter Daddy in the clutch.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Daddy is a member of the BEL complex of genes. The mojave gene produces a smaller change from normal than a lesser gene does. The daddy gene produces a much smaller change from normal than the mojave gene does. But the Daddy gene does have an effect. Otherwise a butter daddy royal python and a butter royal python would look identical.

Butter daddy = the BEL gene pair has a butter gene paired with a Daddy gene.

Het daddy = the BEL gene pair has a normal gene paired with a daddy gene.

Homozygous daddy = the BEL gene pair has two daddy genes, even if the snake does not show an obvious difference from normal.


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## DesA (Aug 14, 2015)

Perfect. Many thanks. Just need to focus on my morph identification skills now


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