# Heat lamp won’t work



## Mark7520

Hi, my heat lamp has suddenly stopped working. I’ve replaced the bulb, bought new thermostat and an normal light bulb works in the fitting so can’t be the wiring. It’s driving me nuts!


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## ian14

Sorry thistles no sense at all. The lampnstopped working so you replaced the bulb. Fine, makes sense. But why replace the thermostat too??
It clearly works as a "normal" bulb works in it.
Without a clearer explanation nobody can help with this


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## Malc

Mark7520 said:


> Hi, my heat lamp has suddenly stopped working. I’ve replaced the bulb, bought new thermostat and an normal light bulb works in the fitting so can’t be the wiring. It’s driving me nuts!


So that would suggest the new lamp you bought is faulty and needs returning for a replacement or refund...


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## SueBoyle

You don’t need a thermostat. Tortoises need to choose their own temperature, so will move in and out of the lamps rays at will. What lamp are you using and what species?


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## ian14

SueBoyle said:


> You don’t need a thermostat. Tortoises need to choose their own temperature, so will move in and out of the lamps rays at will. What lamp are you using and what species?


Sorry but that is wrong. The same could be said for all reptile species, but we all know that that is not good husbandry. 
In certain situations, ie a massive enclosure, then yes, I could see your point holding true. 
However, to say that there is no need to control heat output from a heat source is both wrong and dangerous.
By your rationale, I could stick a 150W lamp in a 3 ft enclosure, uncontrolled, and that would be safe for any and all species????


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## SueBoyle

Think about reptiles in the wild, they don’t live in a thermostatically controlled environment, but use shade during the hottest parts of the day and bask according to ambient temps and the level of the sun in the sky. To keep a reptile in a situation that is so small and enclosed is about as kind as keeping a dog in a kennel or a fish in a bowl. All creatures need enough room to exercise, explore and develop a territory. I have never ever used thermostats for tortoises in over 40 years except for incubation. It is our duty as ‘keepers’ to keep animals humanely and if we cannot do that, whilst aiming to replicate nature as best we can then we shouldn’t have them. I love horses and have done all my life but could never give them a decent life as I do not have acres of countryside, just a humble tortoise garden. 
Would I stick a 150 watt bulb in a 3ft enclosure, no I wouldn’t, but for a hatchling tortoise I would put one in a 4ft enclosure. After first hibernation they would be outdoors where they would thrive (with cold frame or greenhouse accomodation obviously). I have an excellent tortoise vet, but I rarely see him as my tortoises are healthy. If I confined them I would no doubt see him more.


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## NickN

Snakes in the wild can burrow several feet down to escape heat (or cold) as well as climb several feet up, along with hundreds of feet along to find the optimum conditions. Captive snakes cannot possibly be afforded this, even by the best zoos, so it absolutely is necessary to have thermostatically controlled environments so as to avoid stress and placing the animal in a situation it cannot escape.

Reptiles in the wild also live shorter lives than those in captivity. Should we also replicate those conditions of uncertain feeding/vicious predators/floods and fire/parasites? Or just possibly might it be that in captivity they are getting a better quality of life "despite" the 4-5 foot vivarium?


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## ian14

SueBoyle said:


> Think about reptiles in the wild, they don’t live in a thermostatically controlled environment, but use shade during the hottest parts of the day and bask according to ambient temps and the level of the sun in the sky. To keep a reptile in a situation that is so small and enclosed is about as kind as keeping a dog in a kennel or a fish in a bowl. All creatures need enough room to exercise, explore and develop a territory. I have never ever used thermostats for tortoises in over 40 years except for incubation. It is our duty as ‘keepers’ to keep animals humanely and if we cannot do that, whilst aiming to replicate nature as best we can then we shouldn’t have them. I love horses and have done all my life but could never give them a decent life as I do not have acres of countryside, just a humble tortoise garden.
> Would I stick a 150 watt bulb in a 3ft enclosure, no I wouldn’t, but for a hatchling tortoise I would put one in a 4ft enclosure. After first hibernation they would be outdoors where they would thrive (with cold frame or greenhouse accomodation obviously). I have an excellent tortoise vet, but I rarely see him as my tortoises are healthy. If I confined them I would no doubt see him more.


Explained this way, your stance makes perfect sense! 
Context ways makes a massive difference.


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## SueBoyle

NickN said:


> Snakes in the wild can burrow several feet down to escape heat (or cold) as well as climb several feet up, along with hundreds of feet along to find the optimum conditions. Captive snakes cannot possibly be afforded this, even by the best zoos, so it absolutely is necessary to have thermostatically controlled environments so as to avoid stress and placing the animal in a situation it cannot escape.
> 
> Reptiles in the wild also live shorter lives than those in captivity. Should we also replicate those conditions of uncertain feeding/vicious predators/floods and fire/parasites? Or just possibly might it be that in captivity they are getting a better quality of life "despite" the 4-5 foot vivarium?


Put yourself in that situation, would you rather be free outdoors or stuck in a tiny room with no escape for the rest of your days? I know which I’d choose. We should really be thinking of why we would want to keep a snake when we cannot possibly give it a decent life. This section though is about shelled creatures, so no need for vivariums ever. I’ve never owned one and never will. Nothing but viewing boxes for people with no compassion. Don’t get me started on Zoos, just bigger viewing areas for people who wish to stare at animals for no particular reason. Ask them about their death rates, I think you would be surprised. Ask them how many of their male youngsters are fed to the big cats etc etc


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## Malc

I think the thread is being taken OT as we are now discussing the morals of housing reptiles in captivity. Personally I would always use a thermostat with any form of heating. Whilst it is a means to control the heater to provide a hot spot that is within the range of the same temperatures the animal is likely to experience in the wild, it is also a safe guard in that it prevents a run-away situation in the event the ambient air temperature outside the enclosure (as we experienced this year) becomes in excess of what the animal can take. When we experienced 38c this summer all my thermostats had turned the heaters off. If I was just using a 60w lamp that's unregulated then its heat and energy would be adding to that, putting the animal at risk. You could then point fingers with reference to me being an irresponsible keeper due animal cruelty.

Anyway, hopefully the OP has resolved their issue and now has a lamp that is functional and giving the animal access to a hot spot


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Tortoises should be in an open topped enclosure as to would a turtle (obviously this may vary slight species-wise) so there would not be a risk of overheating.


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## Malc

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Tortoises should be in an open topped enclosure as to would a turtle (obviously this may vary slight species-wise) so there would not be a risk of overheating.


I don't keep Tortoises, but surely having an open top enclosure is irrelevant in the example I gave. Google gave me the following:

_As a guide, the temperature under the heat source should be *32-35°C (90-95°F)*, with the opposite end of the enclosure being no lower than 20°C (68°F)._

So this summer when the ambient air temperature in the shade was 39c (both inside and out unless you had Aircon) the air temp would be the same in an open top enclosure, but with an uncontrolled heat source the lamp would be still be adding to that heat as the IR from the lamp would still be heating whatever is beneath it ?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Malc said:


> I don't keep Tortoises, but surely having an open top enclosure is irrelevant in the example I gave. Google gave me the following:
> 
> _As a guide, the temperature under the heat source should be *32-35°C (90-95°F)*, with the opposite end of the enclosure being no lower than 20°C (68°F)._
> 
> So this summer when the ambient air temperature in the shade was 39c (both inside and out unless you had Aircon) the air temp would be the same in an open top enclosure, but with an uncontrolled heat source the lamp would be still be adding to that heat as the IR from the lamp would still be heating whatever is beneath it ?


Well they were all outdoors anyway during the summer!


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## SueBoyle

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Tortoises should be in an open topped enclosure as to would a turtle (obviously this may vary slight species-wise) so there would not be a risk of overheating.


Exactly and not in enclosures with heat lamps anyway unless they are hatchlings, where presumably people are not leaving little ones I need setting that is likely to overheat in a heatwave. All mine survived the heatwave with no stats whatsoever. I’d never leave them to succumb to such temps.


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## SueBoyle

Malc said:


> I don't keep Tortoises, but surely having an open top enclosure is irrelevant in the example I gave. Google gave me the following:
> 
> _As a guide, the temperature under the heat source should be *32-35°C (90-95°F)*, with the opposite end of the enclosure being no lower than 20°C (68°F)._
> 
> So this summer when the ambient air temperature in the shade was 39c (both inside and out unless you had Aircon) the air temp would be the same in an open top enclosure, but with an uncontrolled heat source the lamp would be still be adding to that heat as the IR from the lamp would still be heating whatever is beneath it ?


substrate has to be deep for tortoises at all time to allow for safe aestivation and hibernation. Hardly saw my torts in the heatwave but underground loggers as used outdoors during hibernation showed very safe temps. Isn’t nature wonderful 😂


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## Malum Argenteum

Whether to use a thermostat (which should absolutely be the default recommendation in the absence of full or at the very least minimal knowledge of the situation, which in this case only the OP has; we have no details of the setup at all) doesn't have anything to do with whether a species thermoregulates since nearly all the herps in captivity thermoregulate. 

If a housing setup needs a thermostat to maintain adequate temps under/over whatever heating unit(s) are used, then it does. If the setup is such that there is no conceivable set of circumstances that could yield an unsafe (high or low) temp under/over whatever heating unit(s) are used, then it doesn't need a thermostat. 

FWIW, I keep my group of _Terrapine _in a closed-top enclosure during those couple months when it is too cold in their outside pen and too warm in the basement brumation room. I can't imagine any reason it is a bad setup.


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## SueBoyle

I’m so sorry, I didn’t know we were discussing turtles, which of course, although still Chelonia, have slightly different requirements, being aquatic. I stand by my original statement though that if kept humanely there is sufficient space not to require a thermostat. When people ask for advice on lightning, heating etc you have to look at the whole scenario, which often points to the size of enclosures which is where the problem often lies. It’s a bit like people asking why their dogs are hyperactive, nervous, aggressive etc........before advising various medications, look at the whole picture.....could just be down to environment, exercise levels etc etc. Regarding all animals we need to take off the blinkers and see that Mother Nature knows best and almost always has the answer.


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## Malum Argenteum

SueBoyle said:


> I’m so sorry, I didn’t know we were discussing turtles, which of course, although still Chelonia, have slightly different requirements, being aquatic.


We don't know what species of Chelonia the OP is keeping, and no one mentioned aquatic turtles at all.


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## SueBoyle

“FWIW, I keep my group of 
_Well forgive me again I thought Terrapine referred to aquatic turtles. _


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## Malum Argenteum

Somewhat my misleading misspelling; _Terrapene_ is the correct spelling of the genus name. I apologize for being confusing.


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