# Help buying my first bearded dragon.....s?



## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi guys,

The wife has finally given in to letting my son and I get a bearded dragon! I took him to a reptile shop last week and knowing my son out of all the bearded dragons in the shop (about 25) he goes straight to the male rainbow tiger leatherback at a cost of £250!! I took a fancy to a girl with lots of orange with white legs at a cost of £150.

My first question after never owning a reptile, is starting with 2 a bad idea? What troubles will I run with in having 2? Is there any advantage in having 2? If I got one now could I add another in 12months time?

As for the cost I've kind of been saving for a "special dragon"
And want nice colours rather than the normal dragon colour!

Going for a 4ft viv but its going in the utility room where it's cold, around 10deg C in the winter! Which leads me to the question about the best heating setup for those conditions????

Any advice would be great!


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Any dragon keepers out there?


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Just been reading about buying 2 dragons!! So it seems buying a male and female at the same age will not work! So if I want to get 2 dragons how do I do this??


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

hi its best to have 1 dragon per viv regardless of gender as they could fight ......as to heat as long as you have the heat bulb on a dimming stat that should not be a problem you may need a ceramic on a pulse stat during the night if it gets really cold


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

How do you go about keeping 2.....it can be done right?


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## COLD BLOODED THINGS RULE (Dec 27, 2012)

what i would do is buy a whole setup from the pet store if they do not do it ebay do for about £200 ....for a first beardie i would get a normal one for about £30 .....keeping together for first is ok but not the best idea if you have a male and a female because in breeding season the male could anoy the female male + male is a definate NO.....if you realy want two get two females?????


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

separate vivs is the way to go

if you get two then try to get two that were brought up together and both female you may then have a chance of them happily living together but i doubt it the main thing is that they may fight then you will need a second viv and a vet as they can damage themselves when fighting 

i keep mine in separate vvs even though they are both females as i don't want to chance it


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Shame I found one I really wanted and my son found his! I'm not having 2 setups so I guess my son will win! I'm not going for a standard £30 dragon I want a nice colour dragon!


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Have a look in the main Lizard section and you will see that it is strongly recommended that bearded dragons are kept separately.

It is better to purchase the equipment separately rather than a complete "set up" from a pet shop as there are often items that are not necessary/needed.

Ebay is ok for vivariums, but of course if the lighting etc is second hand there is always a risk that it doesn't work!

The Classifieds on here are also good :2thumb:


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Right firstly I would never recommend 2 dragons in 1 viv especially for a new keeper. First off they would both have to be female or you will have to separate them at some point, even with 2 females chances are you'll have too separate anyway and be sure to do it before harm is done. It can be very difficult to detect the signs early enough before damage is done, be it physical or mental, there's a lot that we as humans won't pick up on. So either get 1 dragon or 2 vivs. 

A 4ft viv is fine for life for 1 BD as long as you have a minimum depth and height of 2ft also. This is needed for its size but mainly so that you can create the required temperature gradient. Without a large enough viv either your basking temp or cool end temp will suffer either being detrimental to your BD's welfare. 

With you being new to reps and doing most of your research (I assume) primarily at pet shops then they have most probably given you inaccurate advice regarding kit for your viv. Amazingly most pet shops haven't the slightest clue how to properly look after specific reps. I advice you thoroughly research on here on BD. stick around and you'll learn a lot in no time. I will quickly run through what you need. 

Heat source. For a 4x2x2 viv you want a 60w light emitting heat source. A standard reflective spot bulb or halogen bulb is what you want, don't buy a reptile specific one, it'll do the same job but be a lot more pricey, this is just to give off heat, you could use a candle in theory if it gave off enough heat. You don't want a ceramic. BD's are attracted to the light and will recognise the light as an area of warmth, it is also easier to create a hotspot with a light emitting source. This heat source must be statted to ensure the safety of your BD, otherwise it could overheat your viv. You want a DIMMING thermostat for a light emitting heat source. If it does indeed get to 10c in the winter at night then it might be a good idea to have a secondary heat source. This would of course need to emit no light at all, so no coloured bulbs, you want a ceramic heat emitter, low wattage as it is only to slightly boost ambient temps, this again needs to be statted, you can use a dimmer or pulse stat for this although pulse is preferable. Set the stat to 15-17c, any higher and it will negatively affect your BD, a temp drop at night is good and in the wild of Aus it often gets to - temps so I wouldn't worry too much. You never want any other heat source for a BD, no heatmat, these can be dangerous as they emit heat from below, not designed for BD's. 

UV. You want a tube uv source, it must be a minimum of 10% however the only one I would recommend at current is the Arcadia T5 12% D3+. It is leaps and bounds above the rest at the moment, the tubes last 12 months too as opposed to 6 months so you'll make your money back within the year anyway. You probably won't be able to buy this at your pet shop however it'll be cheaper if you buy your viv and all the kit online anyhow so I'd recommend you do that, try swell reptiles or Surrey pet supplies. If you go for the T5 then you want the 3ft version in a 4ft viv. Mount it in the hot end so it drops off in to shade down the cool end, this is called a photogradient and is again very important to your BD, it is necessary to complete the D3 cycle. Take a look on Arcadias website for more info. 

Substrate. This is mainly personal preference after a mass of research however I would steer clear of loose substrates (sand, woodchip). These can cause issues if ingested as they cannot always be properly digested. It is always best to have experience of reps and the rep in question before attempting loose substrates, even with this knowledge it is sometimes still a bad idea, especially woodchip! I'd stick to tiles if I were you, aesthetically pleasing, easy to clean and good at keeping nails trimmed, probably one of if not the best choice for a BD. 

Finally you will need a few digital thermometers off ebay (cheapest place). I think I've pretty much covered the basics there and it should be good to get you started. Take a look here for info on temps and setting up a thermostat, there's a few views there so again its best to research and make your own choice.


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Sound advice......it's funny I was reading your build thread late last night.....looks amazing.

Will look deeper into the heading as not sure what you mean about pulse e.t.c lol it was a reptile shop within a fish shop that were going to sell me both boy and girl (of same age) which I have read would have given me major trouble with the male sexually maturing faster than the female!

Back to the research! I'm just concerned and don't get how you can maintain a temp from a bulb 

As for tiles what sort of tiles so I get? I thought calcium sand was the way to go?


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Justi said:


> Sound advice......it's funny I was reading your build thread late last night.....looks amazing.
> 
> Will look deeper into the heading as not sure what you mean about pulse e.t.c lol it was a reptile shop within a fish shop that were going to sell me both boy and girl (of same age) which I have read would have given me major trouble with the male sexually maturing faster than the female!
> 
> ...


Haha, cheers pal. Ok a dimming stat simply dims the light source and a pulse stat rapidly pulses it on/off, great for ceramics but makes a light bulb flicker, it'll do everyone's head in, BD included! It's not difficult once you get the hang of it. Buy your setup online and get it all setup for a few days so you can be sure all is spot on, put down a deposit on the BD so its yours and don't pick it up until you're sure the setups correct. Basically a 60w heat source down one end shining down on a basking spot of 105-115f, this will then create a gradient down in to your cool end so your BD can choose where to place himself in the viv to warm up or cool down. The basking spot is the most important. Too hot and it won't be used properly, not hot enough and he won't be able to digest food properly. The other temps then aren't set in stone, your cool end can in theory be zero degrees if there is a steady gradient all the way down, as long as it isn't too warm then he'll have somewhere to efficiently cool. It's easy when you know how and you'll get a much better understand of it when you actually do it so I'd go ahead and order the kit ASAP so you can get it sorted. 

Calci sand is most definitely not the way to go I'm afraid. It contains calcium strangely enough! There's a good chance a BD will be attracted to the calcium and eat it, or miss live food and get a mouthful of sand by mistake. If your husbandry is ever so slightly off, temps are too cool, BD dehydrated then ingesting sand could be fatal. It basically isn't digested and causes a blockage, your BD can then not pass anything and will need vet treatment or die. This is why I wouldn't recommend loose substrate until you know what you're doing if at all. Any tiles will do, although I'd recommend rough ones or he'll have trouble with grip, I believe slate tiles are a good choice. If I'm honest I've never used tiles however I know that they are a great substrate, its obvious. People also use Lino and I would agree it is a great choice however I've heard it can give off dodgy fumes at high temps. I haven't used this either so I'm not 100% on this but any doubt means I wouldn't recommend it. Plus tiles look better. Cut them to size and then either grout them in as you would with a normal tiled floor or just place them in and sprinkle child's play sand in to the gaps. Minimal particle ingestion won't be an issue its large clumps/mouthfuls of sand you need to worry about which won't happen with sand in gaps like this.


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

So many people tell me different things its starting to piss me off.....just looking for the best setup for my new dragon....went to buy the viv today 3 staff members all told me different things confusing me and they did not have the viv in stock!

Please tell me ideal lighting and do people use T5 or T8's????


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## bluemoon1502 (Sep 3, 2012)

Justi said:


> So many people tell me different things its starting to piss me off.....just looking for the best setup for my new dragon....went to buy the viv today 3 staff members all told me different things confusing me and they did not have the viv in stock!
> 
> Please tell me ideal lighting and do people use T5 or T8's????


4x2x2 viv minimum.. T5, T8, T12 is just the thickness of the tube. Whats more important is to get the correct %age of UV and a decent reflector so then all the Uv light is focussed into your viv where the beardie will be. My advice to anyone buying a new UV is to get an arcadia 12% t5 slimline set up. You get UV tube, starter and reflector all in one package. It works out about the same as buying it all seperately but you get one of the best UV tubes on the market


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

I got that but the T8 version now I want to take back and get the T5! I was also sold a 150w bulb which by the sounds of it is a bit of a joke??????


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## Lizardbonkers (Sep 7, 2012)

Justi said:


> Sound advice......it's funny I was reading your build thread late last night.....looks amazing.
> 
> Will look deeper into the heading as not sure what you mean about pulse e.t.c lol it was a reptile shop within a fish shop that were going to sell me both boy and girl (of same age) which I have read would have given me major trouble with the male sexually maturing faster than the female!
> 
> ...


Hi ummmmmmm how do I start a thread from an iPod


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

bluemoon1502 said:


> 4x2x2 viv minimum.. T5, T8, T12 is just the thickness of the tube. Whats more important is to get the correct %age of UV and a decent reflector so then all the Uv light is focussed into your viv where the beardie will be. My advice to anyone buying a new UV is to get an arcadia 12% t5 slimline set up. You get UV tube, starter and reflector all in one package. It works out about the same as buying it all seperately but you get one of the best UV tubes on the market


As blue has said go for the 4x2x2 online and get the Arcadia T5. I have replied to your PM. :2thumb:


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

right, temp falls down to 8 deg C where the Viv is going to be placed at night so I am going to have a basking light on a dimmer for heat. When lights go out and its dark I will have a ceramic heater on a pulse kicking in to stop the temp dropping so much!

1) What watt ceramic heater do I need for a 4x2x2 just to stop the temp in the Viv falling over night?

2) Where does the dimmer thermostat go.......as close to the basking area as possible to make sure that is the temp that is spot on?

3) Where does the pulse thermostate go to regulate the temp at night.....at the hot or cool end?

4) is this

```
http://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/reptile-supplies/reptile-heating-equipment-414/thermostats-555/habistat-twin-channel-thermostat-26740.html
```
 a DIMMER, PULSE, or ON/OFF


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

anyone?


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

Hellllllllloooooooo............?


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

I've replied to your PM but to answer your other questions, a low wattage ceramic for night time heat, I don't really do ceramic so don't know what they come in but I'd say anything under 100w will do, preferably 50 or less, it's only to give a very slight temp increase. I can't open the link to the stat you're on about but if its a twin channel one which it is by the looks of it I believe they are both dimmers so that would be fine for the light source and ceramic. You may want to double check that though :2thumb:


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## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Don't get too concerned about the conflicting advice. The reason is that there's more than one way of setting things up. These are the important requirements:

1 dragon per viv 
Floor area at least 4 x 2 ft
Basking temperature around 40C (maybe even a bit more)
Warm end approx 35C
Cool end approx 28C (don't get too uptight about temps - they vary quite a lot in the wild!)
Use an appropriate thermostat for the heat source
Measure the temperatures using a calibrated thermometer (don't rely on the setting on the thermostat - they're rubbish)
Strongest UV you can get 12% arcadia is good - and use a reflector
Night time temp drop can go down to 15C or so, but don't let it drop too low.

You can use a ceramic as the only heat source if you want. Beardies have a parietal eye in the top of their head and are able to locate an IR heat source. The advantage of a ceramic is that you can also use it to maintain a minimum night time temp, but you will need a day/night thermostat for this.


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## Justi (Nov 15, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> I've replied to your PM but to answer your other questions, a low wattage ceramic for night time heat, I don't really do ceramic so don't know what they come in but I'd say anything under 100w will do, preferably 50 or less, it's only to give a very slight temp increase. I can't open the link to the stat you're on about but if its a twin channel one which it is by the looks of it I believe they are both dimmers so that would be fine for the light source and ceramic. You may want to double check that though :2thumb:


Ended up with a 250w ceramic! 75.......150 not up for the job of heating 7 deg C


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## ayrshire bob (Oct 24, 2012)

The high wattage ceramic will be ok as long as it on a stat, just means it will be able to go to higher temps if need be.


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

ayrshire bob said:


> The high wattage ceramic will be ok as long as it on a stat, just means it will be able to go to higher temps if need be.


Agreed!

The stat is the most important thing really to control the temperature. If you didn't use one and just had the 250 ceramic on full you would end up with a beardie kebab!


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