# Alarming!



## ReptileRoom (Oct 15, 2011)

*So after visiting a fair few reptile shops over the last few years, as we all know some are better than others, but I never thought i'd see the day where I was shocked by a shop!

Basically this place "which shall remain nameless"... I though always had a good variety of reptiles, and was clean and all around a good little shop. However after going there a few times recently it has really opened my eyes :gasp:

The owner firstly believed that a boa constrictor should be 6foot in length by the time its 1 year old, which im sure people would agree, that would mean some serious power feeding! There was also a few other comments that i felt was mis leading especially if you didn't know any better yourself. Then a friend of mine purchased some reptiles and I went round to check out the new additions and happened to notice mites!! and not just one or two... so next we were trying to figure out where they had come from, they happened to go back to the shop to pick up a heap load of callingtons to treat their reptiles and viv's which I'm sure if anyone has had mites in the collection before it can be a real nightmare to sort out. They happened to speak to the owner about it only to be told "Yeah i've got a mite problem too, everyone's got mites!"
To which i couldn't quite believe that they were openly admitting to having a problem in store and still be selling reptiles and seemly to have no urgency to deal with the issue.. however it gets worse as there was then a delivery of new stock come in from abroad as the owner had told us they dealt with certain breeders, but there didn't seem to be any quarantine and the animals where straight out for sale, which makes me think no wonder he'd got a mite problem!

I just find it so hard to believe that someone could be so careless and not give a thought for anyone else they might affect by their actions... 

Well that's my little rant over, I'd be grateful of other peoples opinions on this situation.*


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## snakesandscales (Oct 6, 2009)

ReptileRoom said:


> *So after visiting a fair few reptile shops over the last few years, as we all know some are better than others, but I never thought i'd see the day where I was shocked by a shop!
> 
> Basically this place "which shall remain nameless"... I though always had a good variety of reptiles, and was clean and all around a good little shop. However after going there a few times recently it has really opened my eyes :gasp:
> 
> ...


The mite situation is particularly alarming IMO. It could mean serious implications for lots of reptile keepers who have bought from this shop or his supplier.


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## sam n mushu (Jun 4, 2012)

thats awful, its a shame, and they should deal with the problem. even at my college that have an isolation room and all new animals are put into there for at least a week to make sure they are healthy enough and dont have any underlying problems that needs to be dealt with, beofre they go into the vivs/hutchs etc with the others animals on the unit.

could the mites have been transported on the other reptiles from abroad, as they most likley come from wild caught reptiles??

i hope i dont ever get any. awful little things and hard to kill


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Just goes to show that some shop owners are just in it just for the money and aren't bothered about the health of their animals and happy customers! :bash: 

If I visit a shop and I don't like it (for whatever reason) then I won't ever go in it again, plain and simple.


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## ReptileRoom (Oct 15, 2011)

andy2086 said:


> Just goes to show that some shop owners are just in it just for the money and aren't bothered about the health of their animals and happy customers! :bash:
> 
> If I visit a shop and I don't like it (for whatever reason) then I won't ever go in it again, plain and simple.


Too right! I definitely won't be using the shop again.


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## sam n mushu (Jun 4, 2012)

i wouldnt go again either. one time i went in a pet shop and they had 2 mahoosive beardies, they were so over weight, i dont know why they were like this but i havent gone back, i always think what happened to them though adn if there still allive, its so sad i would have if i was old enough at the time had them and maybe got them healthy again


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

Hi, i dont normally post, but i think this situation does warrant it.
I myself own a shop in merseyside and we do have strick rules and regulations to follow. These are stipulated on the license that we have to renew every 1st january. One of the rules stipulates all new animals that have been bought should have a minimum 7 day isolation period and any unwell animal (mites etc) should be immediatley taken off sale and placed away from the shop front, also vet advice should be sort where ever an illness warrants it.

Some of the rules and regulations


You are suitably qualified to keep animals with regard to the type and number proposed to be kept.
You will keep animals in suitable accommodation and have adequate supplies of food and bedding.
You will not sell mammals at too early an age.
You will take all reasonable precautions to prevent the spread of infectious disease amongst the animals.
You will take appropriate steps to protect the animals in the case of fire or other emergency.
You will keep a register on the premises, giving a description of any animal received on the premises, the age and sex, the date of acquisition and departure and the source from which you received the animals. This should be available for inspection at all times by a licensing inspector or by a veterinary practitioner authorised by the council.
You will not sell animals to a child under the age of 12 years.
We may refuse or withhold a licence on other grounds if those grounds are such that conditions are not suitable for the keeping of animals.
ANIMAL HEALTH RULES

5.0 *HEALTH, DISEASE AND ACCLIMATISATION*
5.1 All stock sold must be in good health as far as can be reasonably determined without veterinary inspection.
5.2 Any sick or injured animal must received appropriate care and treatment without delay.
(This may include euthanasia.)
5.3 Veterinary advice should be south whenever necessary.
5.4 Any animal with an obvious, significant abnormality which would materially affect its quality of life, must not be offered for sale. When in doubt, veterinary advice should be sought.
5.5 All animals must be allowed a suitable acclimatisation period before sale.
5.6 The facility to isolate sick animals must be provided.
5.7 All reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent the outbreak and spread of disease. No animal which is suffering from, or could reasonably be suspected of having come into contact with any other animal suffering from, any infectious or contagious disease, or which is infested with parasites, shall be brought into or kept on the premises unless effectively isolated.
5.8 Puppies and kittens must be kept separate from other litters.
5.9 All necessary precautions must be taken to prevent the introduction to the premises, and harbourage, or rodents, insects and other pests.
('Rodent' and 'insect' excludes livestock for sale or for feeding.)

Hope this helps.
These are rules from knowsley council, dont know if other councils have same procedures.


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

But in the shops defence if they didnt know they can not treat. Now hopefully they will know and solve the problem.


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## ReptileRoom (Oct 15, 2011)

applepye said:


> But in the shops defence if they didnt know they can not treat. Now hopefully they will know and solve the problem.


That's the thing they did knowingly sell the animals with mites, and the attitude was a no a big problem!

So what do you think would be the best route to take? I have written a email to the council the shop is under, but would they even listen?


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## kingkelly (May 14, 2012)

So if a shop sells you a snake with mites is that considered a minor thing?


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

ReptileRoom said:


> That's the thing they did knowingly sell the animals with mites, and the attitude was a no a big problem!
> 
> So what do you think would be the best route to take? I have written a email to the council the shop is under, but would they even listen?


JUST FOR CLARIFICATION - let me say i have never had mites touch wood

In my license terms if i know an animal has mites and sell it i am breaking the rules of my license and the council will investigate and we will get notice of a breech of rules. Too many breaches of rules can result in prosecution of the license owner.

hope this helps, but in response to the other part yes your local licensing department will investigate and will give you feedback on your complaint. As after all you are a concerned member of the public.


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## ReptileRoom (Oct 15, 2011)

applepye said:


> JUST FOR CLARIFICATION - let me say i have never had mites touch wood
> 
> In my license terms if i know an animal has mites and sell it i am breaking the rules of my license and the council will investigate and we will get notice of a breech of rules. Too many breaches of rules can result in prosecution of the license owner.
> 
> hope this helps, but in response to the other part yes your local licensing department will investigate and will give you feedback on your complaint. As after all you are a concerned member of the public.


Thanks that's clarified what I thought, let's hope I get some feedback from the council.


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

ReptileRoom said:


> Thanks that's clarified what I thought, let's hope I get some feedback from the council.


No problems, Hope it put your mind at ease.


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## sam n mushu (Jun 4, 2012)

no its not a minor thing, if i owned a shop i would follow the rules and regulations and stick to them. its not right if they dont. and im sure the shop owner knows about the rules they should follow if he/she wants to house and sell animals from a shop that will be allowing the general public to purchase from there.. its not very responsible really if they havent.

and i understand that not all shop owners are like this and some are responsiable and care about the animals they want people to have from them. its just sad that some shop owners are like this.

and i hope the council will get back to you


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

sam n mushu said:


> no its not a minor thing, if i owned a shop i would follow the rules and regulations and stick to them. its not right if they dont. and im sure the shop owner knows about the rules they should follow if he/she wants to house and sell animals from a shop that will be allowing the general public to purchase from there.. its not very responsible really if they havent.
> 
> and i understand that not all shop owners are like this and some are responsiable and care about the animals they want people to have from them. its just sad that some shop owners are like this.
> 
> and i hope the council will get back to you



Totally agree, my license is like my bible as it is my sole responsibllity to mantain the general well being and health of all my animals (even the ones at home), i alone as the license holder is at risk of losing the license, banned, jailed and fined if these rules are broken.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Sounds like common pet shop practice to me.

The sad truth is it's just not economically viable to quarantine for an adequate length of time.

Many harmful pathogens have incubation periods of months if not years. You really can't expect them to keep everything locked up for that length of time. The best you can hope for is that they house old and new stock separately.

Also in my experience most reptile shops have an ongoing battle with mites and its rare to find a shop without them.......

Just think of the number of deliveries they have from all over the planet, and in addition to that the number of reptile keepers who come in and handle the reptiles and could be bringing anything in on their hands/clothes.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just saying it like it is.

You buy from a shop with a constant flow of reptiles in and out, you take your risk.

I'm sure there are some excellent shops out there with very strict procedures that help to minimise the risks but these are undoubtedly the exception, not the rule.

And no I don't work in a pet shop :lol2:


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## snakesandscales (Oct 6, 2009)

kingkelly said:


> So if a shop sells you a snake with mites is that considered a minor thing?


No, infact the opposite is true.


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

fishboy said:


> Sounds like common pet shop practice to me.
> 
> The sad truth is it's just not economically viable to quarantine for an adequate length of time.
> 
> ...


In responce to your comments:

It isnt a common practise to sell animals with mites, it is against the rules that we have to follow.
We have to quarantine for at least 7 days and if any animal looks ill has to be seen by a vet within a resonable time frame (i would think that day is resonable).
A way to stop infection from imports is Not to import (i myself do not import and i only use private breeders for my animals, i have used a large supplier once for animals since opening and one out of two animals where dead on delivery). There is an extensive network (especially on here) of people who breed a wide range of animals exotic and other that we can buy from.

We have numerous antibacterial hand gels placed round the shop and if anyone wants to handle one (once we have spoke to them over their animals) we ask them to place on before and after.
Like i said previous i have never had mites and cleanliness is next to godliness in my eyes.
Most shops do have good reputations and there are some who it is an oversight, but we as shops should be more on the ball than others are we are there every day 7 days a week.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

applepye said:


> In responce to your comments:
> 
> It isnt a common practise to sell animals with mites, it is against the rules that we have to follow.
> We have to quarantine for at least 7 days and if any animal looks ill has to be seen by a vet within a resonable time frame (i would think that day is resonable).
> ...


I understand what the rules are. I'm just going on my experience of when i've bought from shops in the distant past and from what i've seen in many shops much more recently.

Quite a few shops i've been into I actually SEE mites wandering around the vivs and lodged under scales on the snakes.

I suppose if you only buy from a few select breeders that you trust then the need to quarantine lessens but I very much doubt many shops do that.

Your shop sounds great :2thumb:


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## applepye (May 16, 2011)

fishboy said:


> I understand what the rules are. I'm just going on my experience of when i've bought from shops in the distant past and from what i've seen in many shops much more recently.
> 
> Quite a few shops i've been into I actually SEE mites wandering around the vivs and lodged under scales on the snakes.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comment : victory:
But yes i can see why people get angry, i do myself when i hear what other people do. In my opinion the animals welfare is my priority. As you can imagine i am not going to be rich owning a pet shop lol, but i see a different future for us (shops) that is there are many animals in substandard conditions in home and shops, many being abandoned, mistreated etc and unfortunatley a small minority of shops can add to the problem. I myself think we should be part of the solution not part of the problem. If anyone who wants to buy a reptile or exotic should be properly briefed and aware of the long term commitment of the animal. until they are aware of this and the needs of the animal, then they cant buy off me.
And yes i have refused to sell animals to people because of there lack of knowledge. Most come back time and time again to gain training of handling, feeding etc and then do go on to buy. 
I find this the best way as none of my animals so far have been rehoused, dies or abandoned. yes i do know everyone i sell :whistling2:
Sorry rant over lol


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## Demonlude (Feb 17, 2009)

sam n mushu said:


> they most likley come from wild caught reptiles??


Not true.


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