# what is the best terrain for a bearded dragon



## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

i am getting a bearded dragon in a few weeks, so i need to know what terrain is best for them.


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## ANT (Nov 11, 2007)

urrr desert?, have you done any research on beardies??


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

They come from the desert, but they dont live on sand. 
I use tiles in mine.
Tiles, lino, kitchen roll, newspaper are all a good substrate to use.
I wouldnt recommend sand or anything with loose particles due to impactation risks.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

ummmmmm,yes,but they all say diffrent things,and its driving me nuts!:crazy:


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

ok,thanks for info,id like u to give me some more if u find any


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

Catherine896 said:


> They come from the desert, but they dont live on sand.
> I use tiles in mine.
> Tiles, lino, kitchen roll, newspaper are all a good substrate to use.
> I wouldnt recommend sand or anything with loose particles due to impactation risks.


just don't use sand
linda


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

What are you planning on keeping the beardie in?
What sort of setup etc?


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## nc-duk-alike (Jan 6, 2007)

calci sand is a good thing. if they eat it its ok for them. but quite dear round my way


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

well,a 3 ft vivarium and 1 beardie


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Calci-sand is NOT a good thing. It is worse than playsand.
It clogs up in their stomachs.


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

nc-duk-alike said:


> calci sand is a good thing. if they eat it its ok for them. but quite dear round my way


calci sand is not good and can give them impactation if they eat to much of it!


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## nc-duk-alike (Jan 6, 2007)

yeah to much off anything substrate isnt good but mine are on calci and never had a problem


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

They shouldnt be able to eat it atall. They get calcium from a calcium powder.
Providing sand only gives risks to the animal living on it.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

ok, thanks for the no sand info, by the way,do u know how to tell a baby male beardie and baby female beardie apart!?


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

No you wont be able to tell 'til around 5 months +


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Babies will prove diffiicult to sex..
Im in the majority for sand, I wouldn't use anything else. It looks alot more natural than lino or kitchen tiles and allows them to dig which mine love.


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

female









male


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

oh,ok,well how do u tell them apart after 5 months


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

thanks for the diagrams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: victory:


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

It does look nice Ill admit, and I wish there wasnt any risks involved.
Beardies dont live on sand in the wild so it isnt natural. Tiles and lino arent either obviously but they are more natural to hard compacted clay than loose sand is.
They provide NO risks, are far more easier to clean. I also find sand stinks and gets everywhere.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

do u think that wood chipings would do?:hmm:


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

I've been thinking about trying this stuff out as mine love to dig around and make little beds..

Entry Detail


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

No, if one of them gets stuck its hell of a lot harder to get out than sand is!
I would stick with tiles, lino, kitchen roll or newspaper. Its the safest way!


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

diggyc said:


> do u think that wood chipings would do?:hmm:


Think about it.. they're larger than sand particles, getting a wood chip stuck in their throat wont be nice..


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

Catherine896 said:


> It does look nice Ill admit, and I wish there wasnt any risks involved.
> Beardies dont live on sand in the wild so it isnt natural. Tiles and lino arent either obviously but they are more natural to hard compacted clay than loose sand is.
> They provide NO risks, are far more easier to clean. I also find sand stinks and gets everywhere.


Well said : victory: it looks nice but i would rather not take the risk i use lino for all my reps and will be using lino for my bd when i get it at the end of the week coming up. you can get some really nice tiles and lino to that looks like rock.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah the tiles I have in mine are a natural colour, same colour as sand.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

ok thennnn.......what about plants,can u put them in
:hmm:


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

They'll trash live plants, and they will give off too much humidity, which is bad for a beardie, can cause respiritory problems.

Stick to silk/fake plants.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

then how do thay suvice in the wild,and can u put cacti in


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Your viv isn't going to be as big as the Australian outback is it?


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

true..........ok,u win


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Lol, that was good.
Just stick with fake plants. But you might want to take the beardie out for feeding 'cos the crickets will just hide everywhere.


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

ok,thanks by the way, do some forms of cricket eat baby beardies


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Crickets can bite yes. You should always remove any uneaten food over night. Or provide a small dish of carrot for the crickets.


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

Catherine896 said:


> Crickets can bite yes. You should always remove any uneaten food over night. Or provide a small dish of carrot for the crickets.


I agree i always remove any crix after a hour but if you keep them in the bds viv they wll just eat some of the bds veg from the dish but i still would take them out tho its alway better to play it safe


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## Raiden (Sep 8, 2007)

Aye, yank anything they don't eat. A couple of weeks back Rufus had a slice out of his nose that I reckon was from a cricket I must have missed. After that I started feeding them outside the viv but both he and Teeny hate that... so now the fussy little herberts get locusts more often than not.

The offending cricket was tracked down, and given to the cats to play with. Dagda and Vivi made a right mess of it


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

by the sae principal...as not usig sand due to impaction risk.....
fake plants are dangerous as they resemble leafs and may be eaten...

just another thing to bare in mind.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

i dont see what the problem is with sand, everyone i no who has beardies has kept then on sand, and guess what NO problems!! i used playsand for ages, and now i use a natural sand which i see no harm in doing.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

what sort of natural sand do you use?
is it from a rep shop called "natural sand" or do you nick it from a beach?
just wondering.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

i got it from a very reliable shop. why?


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## diggyc (Nov 24, 2007)

thanks for the info!luckyu said that,as i was going to use fake plants!


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

That is what gets me, individual people havent had problems so they continue using it. Until you get an animal with impactation will you not see that it ISNT safe?
There is someone on here who has a beardie with impactation at the moment! People on here who have had pets DIE from impactation of SAND. How is that safe?!


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

diggyc said:


> thanks for the info!luckyu said that,as i was going to use fake plants!


i use fake plants and sand... [although wouldnt use sand for a beardie till its 6 months or so and i have had it for atleast a month on newspaper or kitchen towel just to keep an eye on things.

Its just best to use what you like and keep an eye on things, no problems are likely to arise and even less likely that soemthing would become an issue as any signs of eating thigs they shouldnt and things would be changed accordingly...There is a risk with everything, be it for a beardie or us ppl is what i was trying to sugest.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah you can keep an eye on them, but what if someone has a rep that doesnt like being watched when eating?
I have a beardie who will only eat when he cant see us.

Or what is stopping the rep eating some when you arent watching?
I just dont understand why people use it with the risks involved is all. That risk can be removed completly by not using it but people do it anyway for how it looks etc.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

I personally see no risk of excessive eating of substrate whatever that happens to be with an adult or sub adult bearded dragon, I have never witnessed any behaviour to sugest one would eat sand in any amount, let alone enough to cause impaction.

I would think but obviously cant be sure... that a beardie who is aware enough to not eat when being watched..would be headstrong enough to not get a mouthfull of sand on any regular basis but at the same time maybe not.

The risk is prolly exactly the same as with fe3eding mealies with thier chittiny shell... do you use mealworms out of interest?
if you do its prolly cos you dont personally see it as a problem...despite the similarities in risk.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

In my opinion, there is no risk of impaction to any of my reptiles. They get fed well and never even "taste" the loose substrate, and in my opinion a well fed Lizard will not attempt to eat the substrate.
If my Leo happens to get a bit of sand when she misses a cricket, she sticks her tongue out and scrapes it off on her mouth and doesn't eat it - Clever little girl 
Where they originate, they don't have kitchen towel or little bowls with food in unfortunately.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah I do feed them, but not in excessive amounts - where as if a beardie or any rep for that matter decided it fancied eating a load of sand that cant be monitored.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Brat said:


> Where they originate, they don't have kitchen towel or little bowls with food in unfortunately.


 
They also dont live on an area totally covered in sand. Its hard compacted clay with a fine dusting of sand which gets blown into gaps etc so they barely walk on any of it atall.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

There is still loose substrate around, it's not lino or nicely laid tiles.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

Catherine896 said:


> That is what gets me, individual people havent had problems so they continue using it. Until you get an animal with impactation will you not see that it ISNT safe?
> There is someone on here who has a beardie with impactation at the moment! People on here who have had pets DIE from impactation of SAND. How is that safe?!


 
there is a risk of anything happining, you could get hit by a bus tomorro, so would you stop going out? i feel there is no risk to my reptiles, and i for one dont care for what your opinion is anymore


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

They could still get impaction in the wild tho but as the reptile keeper we get the chance to reduce the risks of them getting anything they could get in the wild!


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

I personally feel my reptiles are much happier on sand.
What would you rather lie on - a hard lino floor or nice plush carpet? I know what I'd rather, and I know what my reps prefer.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lil noodle.
I just asked as i wanted to know what "natural sand" was thats all... i believe it to be a packaging term only and no more natural than any other sand but nothing wrong with it...just more expensive than playsand.

Catherine.
yes..cool.. thats true any lizard could decide to eat sand...why they would do that though is beyond me and I dont think anything other than a mentally unhinged beardie would and said beardie may also decide to drown itself in its own waterbowl... 
fair point though and I have no problem with your decision but dont think its entirely correct to tell ppl its a 100% no no, however youropinion is just as valid as anyone elses, as is mine which is why im giving it here thats all.

Finch.
yes thats true of course.

Brat.
Also true.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

DeanThorpe said:


> lil noodle.
> I just asked as i wanted to know what "natural sand" was thats all... i believe it to be a packaging term only and no more natural than any other sand but nothing wrong with it...just more expensive than playsand.
> 
> Catherine.
> ...


 
it comes in a plain bag, i am assured that it is natural sand.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Well the whole point that there IS a risk however big or small it is to me, IS a 100% no. Yeah, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, but if I had the chance to get rid of that risk I would. I could stay in, but then my house could collapse on me. There is a risk with everything, but the people that use sand are providing an unnecessary risk to their pets just for their own benefits of 'it looks nice' 'its natural' blah blah blah, it ISNT natural and yeah it looks nice but taking a pet to the vets because of a human error when they knew all along there was a risk isnt nice.
Im not arguing about it, you think your pets will be fine on sand you go ahead and use sand. I am much happier not having that risk there, and all my reps are happy and healthy living on nice safe tiles.


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## mightyrhi_16 (Feb 24, 2007)

Finch said:


> They could still get impaction in the wild tho but as the reptile keeper we get the chance to reduce the risks of them getting anything they could get in the wild!



exactly! it frustrates me that people still use sand and even argue that it's fine to use and 'safe' when it's so evidently not.
there's a reason that animals kept on sand die more than animals kept on tiles, lino etc.
and as well as the risk to the animal, it's NOT natural as they don't actually live on sand, it gets everywhere, wears the glass down if it gets into the runners, is hard to keep clean (spot cleaning imo isn't good enough), scrapes against the glass and makes the most god-awful noise every time you open the viv and after a while it stinks to high heaven if you don't change it every 5 minutes.

there is a risk with sand, i prefer to take that risk away, and have a healthier animal that i don't need to worry about every time i feed my pets. if idris and mordrid want to explore by licking and tasting, they can, and i don't need to wonder if they're gonna die a horrific death from something easily avoided.



Catherine896 said:


> Im not arguing about it, you think your pets will be fine on sand you go ahead and use sand. I am much happier not having that risk there, and all my reps are happy and healthy living on nice safe tiles.


i agree 100% with that. it makes me sad to think that another million animals have to die before it's unanimously agreed that sand is unsafe.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

mightyrhi_16 said:


> exactly! it frustrates me that people still use sand and even argue that it's fine to use and 'safe' when it's so evidently not.
> there's a reason that animals kept on sand die more than animals kept on tiles, lino etc.
> and as well as the risk to the animal, it's NOT natural as they don't actually live on sand, it gets everywhere, wears the glass down if it gets into the runners, is hard to keep clean (spot cleaning imo isn't good enough), scrapes against the glass and makes the most god-awful noise every time you open the viv and after a while it stinks to high heaven if you don't change it every 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
Finally someone that agrees 100% lol. 
Anyway Im off now to watch a film, check again later!


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

I does not bother me if people use sand thats up to the reptile keeper and i admit i think it looks great in the viv, but i would rather not take the risk that comes with it and i also think lino looks nice(you can get it in loads of different designs) and is easy to clean!


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lil_noodle said:


> it comes in a plain bag, i am assured that it is natural sand.


k..
I was ot doubing that as i have yet to come across an unatural sand just wandered what type it was but ts cool if you dont know.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

well i think talking to you is extremely boring an idiotic, you do NOT know everything about lizards and it p*sses me off when people think they are the best and their knowlege is greatest, get over yourselfs!


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

Are you talking to me?
I havent said I know everything and Ill happily admit that I dont. But to say that sand is safe, when it can be swallowed, can clog up and can kill an animal is rediculous. People on this site have had animals die from it and suffer from it, Im not making things up. Why do you think there is a reputation for it?
Having sand in a reptiles viv to me is posing a risk to their health. So I will advise anyone not to use it.


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

Do you lot using tiles/kitchen towel have anything else in there to keep their nails down?


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## Finch (Sep 14, 2007)

Brat said:


> Do you lot using tiles/kitchen towel have anything else in there to keep their nails down?


they would still need somthing in there if they was on sand to help keep the nails trim, i have log and rocks in my leos viv but when i get my bd viv setup on monday that comes with rocks and a massive bamboo root jungle gym so that will help keep the nails trim.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

The tiles keeps there nails down, they are rough surface tiles.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

Blah Blah Blah, thas all im going to contribute to this pointless thread


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

maybe its best you just dont post atall then...
it isnt your thread, the author is no doubt glad enough for the opinions, why are you getting wound up?


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

ill do as i please


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

im not saying its the best to use but i used newspaper with all the Pogonas ive had and just put in a small tub of sand for expectant females
as far as the best to use id say play or fine chinchillaa/bird sand


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

I dont like bird sand myself, but it is nice and fine thats true...just kinda smells a bit funny for me lol and erm..the grains seem so small and irritable but i have not used it enough to have a fair opinion of it.
might have a go again some time soon.


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## becka (Jul 10, 2007)

Catherine896 said:


> Yeah you can keep an eye on them, but what if someone has a rep that doesnt like being watched when eating?
> I have a beardie who will only eat when he cant see us.
> 
> Or what is stopping the rep eating some when you arent watching?
> I just dont understand why people use it with the risks involved is all. That risk can be removed completly by not using it but people do it anyway for how it looks etc.


well said. why have any risk if you can eliminate it altogether?


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## mightyrhi_16 (Feb 24, 2007)

lil_noodle said:


> ill do as i please


to be honest you're being childish and not contributing anything useful to the thread, so not posting on it any more is probably best. i'm not starting an argument so don't take it the wrong way, but nobody said they knew everything whether they believe sand to be safe or not.


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## eamdog (Jul 18, 2007)

ive just read this whole post and thinking to meslef why on earth would any beginner ask a question if this is the result. 

really like, u have all hijacked this post to prove points to each other and its not cool really. the person only wanted advice, not an argument, so give the advice and start a new apost entitled, bitching session, every1 welcome. 

p.s orgional poster - find ur info on google then add what u find to the pile of poo argued about in here and make ur own mind up, tbh u'll probly get slated no matter what u keep ur BD on, keep in with it, and for that matter feed it. 

enjoy the hobbie people dont distroy it. 

Eamonn


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## Tina (Apr 9, 2007)

eamdog said:


> ive just read this whole post and thinking to meslef why on earth would any beginner ask a question if this is the result.
> 
> really like, u have all hijacked this post to prove points to each other and its not cool really. the person only wanted advice, not an argument, so give the advice and start a new apost entitled, bitching session, every1 welcome.
> 
> ...


 

: victory: Well said...


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

i see very little arguing..its called personal preference...would be boring if everyone agreed and without different experiences and ideas theyd be no progression in reptilekeeping


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

There is ALWAYS big disagreements when sand comes into a thread. Some people love it, some people hate it. I hate it and will always stick by that.


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## Tina (Apr 9, 2007)

People should be more tolerant of others keeping methods. There is more than one good way to look after all reptiles and things are never black and white. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to state what _they_ think is the best method for them but there is no need to shoot others down in flames who don't use the same methods. 

There are lots of posts at the moment where people seem to be on a short fuse, sad really on a forum which is supposed to be for friendly discussion.


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## dayredfern (Jun 21, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> lil noodle.
> I just asked as i wanted to know what "natural sand" was thats all... i believe it to be a packaging term only and no more natural than any other sand but nothing wrong with it...just more expensive than playsand.
> 
> Catherine.
> ...



i read sumwhere that reptiles eat/taste the ground to replenish lost nutrients. 

ive got all my beardies on playsand and neva had a problem, there is no sand in the feces so i guess they are not eating it.


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## Raiden (Sep 8, 2007)

Our beardies started out on sand... but it was a pain in the posterior to keep clean / sterile so we junked that for tiles, lino, or newspaper.

SO much easier to clean!


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## Adam E (Nov 3, 2007)

i really don't know what to say... This thread started out as a simple question and turned into 8 pages of YES and NO answers...

All i can say is, do what you like and monitor you BD... If you use sand, look at the poo to see if it is being eaten. Don't think sand digests...

I have noticed that alot of people go for the "easy option" of tiles because it is "easy to clean" but to be honest, if you love your reptiles, you will keep the sand clean too.

Good luck and post some pics soon...

Adam


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## Raiden (Sep 8, 2007)

True, sand can be kept as clean as anything else, Tiles or some other substrate is just that bit easier to keep sterile.

The whole impaction issue aside, particulate substrates will certainly take more work to keep clean.

Personally, I've also noticed that our 4 seem happier now they're not on a particulate. Just as lizard lover said, do what you think is best, keep an eye out for any signs of anything potentially going wrong.

It's an emotive issue and you'll never get a right or wrong answer since as with any decision involving your own reptiles... the choice is yours.


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## Othnelia (Jul 21, 2007)

Well i Know plenty of people that use sand with no problem. 
It is entirely up to you what you decide to use. 

I see where finch is coming from with saying we have the option to reduce risks in captivity. 

but one could argue that you need the reptile to feel comfortable. I personally would most likely not use lino or tiles, except for babies and juves.

I don't think you will get a definitive answer in all this, except on the matter of calci sand, it is 40% dust and WILL cause respiratory problems.

Please don't flame me,... I really not an expert and I only deal in mud as i keep monitors lol.


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