# Why were mangroves taken off DWA



## rudolph20039932 (Sep 26, 2011)

Just wondering why? Don't keep DWA species myself but just always wondered about this. Thanks


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## mike49608 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dont keep them myself but i think its because their venom delivery system is poor compared to some front fanged dwa snakes as the magrove(boiga dendrophila) is rear fanged and need to have a good chew to envenomate properly, although i have seen pics of bad enough bites from mangroves. Im sure if i missed something someone else will add. Hope this answers your question a bit atleast.


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## rudolph20039932 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah thanks for reply, like i said just curious, not desprate too find out why but i just find it interesting, gonna look at some of these pics you're talking about now, if i can find any. Thanks again


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## mike49608 (Feb 13, 2010)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/242337-mangrove-bite.html#post3226665 this post is the one i was on about. :2thumb:


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## rudolph20039932 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yuk lol thats horrible


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

mike49608 said:


> Dont keep them myself but i think its because their venom delivery system is poor compared to some front fanged dwa snakes as the magrove(boiga dendrophila) is rear fanged and need to have a good chew to envenomate properly, although i have seen pics of bad enough bites from mangroves. Im sure if i missed something someone else will add. Hope this answers your question a bit atleast.


Boomslangs are rear fanged and have a poor delivery system when compared with a front fanged snake, but are most definitely on the DWA act! If you look at any rear fanged snake you'll see that most are really 'mid fanged' and certainly have no problem delivering a good dose of venom. 

Mangroves were removed from the DWA list due to them having relatively low venom potency that was deemed to be of low risk to humans. That said - they should be treated as if they were fully loaded hots - ive been tagged while injecting a Boiga dendrophila gemmicincta, i can tell you it will certainly ruin your day!


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## BrianInnes (Jan 5, 2012)

Very true a mangrove bite can be very nasty (depending on the person)

"there venom is as toxic as a cobra" - Bryan Fry.


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## mike49608 (Feb 13, 2010)

chondro13 said:


> Boomslangs are rear fanged and have a poor delivery system when compared with a front fanged snake, but are most definitely on the DWA act! If you look at any rear fanged snake you'll see that most are really 'mid fanged' and certainly have no problem delivering a good dose of venom.
> 
> Mangroves were removed from the DWA list due to them having relatively low venom potency that was deemed to be of low risk to humans. That said - they should be treated as if they were fully loaded hots - ive been tagged while injecting a Boiga dendrophila gemmicincta, i can tell you it will certainly ruin your day!


I stand corrected, thanks. :2thumb:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

mike49608 said:


> I stand corrected, thanks. :2thumb:


Not at all, you made a valid point! : victory:


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## mike49608 (Feb 13, 2010)

chondro13 said:


> Not at all, you made a valid point! : victory:


Thanks, id love to keep some boiga species and look at a getting a dwal one day, just not in the position to do it at the minute and by no means do i know enough yet, especially for the dwa anyway.Trying to do as much learning as possible before i seriously consider it. 

Saw your post of the pictures of the dwa you keep... Stunning snakes btw, especially like the Bothriechis schlegelii, although i find them all fascinating to be honest. :lol2:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

chondro13 said:


> Boomslangs are rear fanged and have a poor delivery system when compared with a front fanged snake, but are most definitely on the DWA act! If you look at any rear fanged snake you'll see that most are really 'mid fanged' and certainly have no problem delivering a good dose of venom.
> 
> Mangroves were removed from the DWA list due to them having relatively low venom potency that was deemed to be of low risk to humans. That said - they should be treated as if they were fully loaded hots - ive been tagged while injecting a Boiga dendrophila gemmicincta, i can tell you it will certainly ruin your day!


boomslangs fangs arent as far back as u think they would be look on bryn frys report on colubrid venom also there venom from what i can remember is the most dodgy of all snakes


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> boomslangs fangs arent as far back as u think they would be look on bryn frys report on colubrid venom also there venom from what i can remember is the most dodgy of all snakes


... Thanks for that - i think.. 

Could you elaborate on what *"there venom from what i can remember is the most dodgy of all snakes"* means? :hmm:

Boomslangs dont have the most potent venom of all snakes (when considering LD:50 values) and have a cocktail of haemorrhagins, procoagulants and anticoagulants within their venom - but im curious to know what 'the most dodgy' means in venom terms?


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

chondro13 said:


> ... Thanks for that - i think..


:lol2:


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## Gar1on (Mar 27, 2012)

chondro13 said:


> ... Thanks for that - i think..
> 
> Could you elaborate on what *"there venom from what i can remember is the most dodgy of all snakes"* means? :hmm:
> 
> Boomslangs dont have the most potent venom of all snakes (when considering LD:50 values) and have a cocktail of haemorrhagins, procoagulants and anticoagulants within their venom - but im curious to know what 'the most dodgy' means in venom terms?


_Dispholidus typus_ has, based on LD50, the most potent venom of all opisthoglyphous snakes which is where the misconception may have come from, indeed many people believe the Boomslang to be the most venomous snake in the world so he is not alone in his assumption. He may well of called it 'most dodgy' because of the effects it has, he wasn't necessarily suggesting it was the most potent.

It is slow acting, and causes mass haemorrhaging as I am sure you know. While no death by envenomation is pleasant, one imagines this type of death would be particularly unpleasant. It is most certainly 'dodgy' as symptoms may not display themselves until it is too late (as the late legend Karl Schmidt found out!) I am sure you know all of this and therefore I think it is fair to say you had a good idea of what the poster was suggesting; it lacked a certain eloquence, granted, but you are evidently not stupid and could have inferred what the poster was suggesting I am sure! :2thumb:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Gar1on said:


> _Dispholidus typus_ has, based on LD50, the most potent venom of all opisthoglyphous snakes which is where the misconception may have come from, indeed many people believe the Boomslang to be the most venomous snake in the world so he is not alone in his assumption. He may well of called it 'most dodgy' because of the effects it has, he wasn't necessarily suggesting it was the most potent.
> 
> It is slow acting, and causes mass haemorrhaging as I am sure you know. While no death by envenomation is pleasant, one imagines this type of death would be particularly unpleasant. It is most certainly 'dodgy' as symptoms may not display themselves until it is too late (as the late legend Karl Schmidt found out!) I am sure you know all of this and therefore I think it is fair to say you had a good idea of what the poster was suggesting; it lacked a certain eloquence, granted, but you are evidently not stupid and could have inferred what the poster was suggesting I am sure! :2thumb:


Perhaps - i do prefer to hear such things from the horses mouth as it were


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

chondro13 said:


> Perhaps - i do prefer to hear such things from the horses mouth as it were


sorry i used dodgy over most dangerous or venomous as 1 there reluctant to bite and have to chew even though there not as rearm fanged as u think and 2 there venoms imo prob one of the most complex going literally no symptoms till its too late and by that time literally ur blood cells are just massively haemoraging internally you could compare it to like say and elapids like taking an od of morphine very little pain and over fairly quick and boomslangs like swallowing a thousand razorblades. This with the added fact its irreversable and theres only one horse in africa if i remember rightly they get antivenine from (so he must be a real happy pony)


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