# Advice on dart frogs



## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

i was thinking of getting a few dart frogs and keeping them in a fish tank. the fish tank holds about 60 gallons so i was wondering how many dart frogs that would allow me to keep. i was thinking of getting Maranon dart frogs, are they ok for me to keep if i havent kept dart frogs before? if not which is a good starter frog? i have been told that i would need to take out the regular fish tank bulb that i have in it and replace it with a UV bulb, is that correct?

if you have any other advice then please share it because i am new to keeping frogs

thanks for the advice

Matt


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

it sounds like one of those built in fish tanks. if you are serious about getting dart frogs i'd suggest doing a shed load of research, and then some more lol, and whether you like it or not you'll have to feed flies and not crickets. when it comes to frog enclosures we tend to work on cm size and not gallons as this can be misleading as to what you want, 60 gallon could be 20cm tall by 2ft etc.

Mysties (maranons) are great frogs, and have amazing characters and the craziest little crawl. They'll need a decent sized tank, my five will be going into a 60cm cube, and even then i wanted to give them 70high 60deep and 100wide, but space isnt allowing me to currently. as for uv. its a commonly run through 'discussion' in the frog world, if you're getting mysties i'd certainly suggest giving them some form of it.

if you're seriously thinking about getting into darts, as i said at first, start reading up on the frog you are interested in and fully prepare yourself for what they require and not what fits in best with you. most people find flies to be the big issue


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

What he says ^^^ :2thumb:


Mike


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

i dont mind feeding flies, i give my chameleon flies and i have a bit of experience with frogs from where i work. 

The fish tank is 30cm tall by 30cm wide by 60cm long. 

Ok, thanks, i have done some research but wanted to check on the things that i couldnt find out. 
If you could post a picture of what your tanks look like then that would be great, just to give me an idea of what i could make it look like

i was also looking at bumblebee dart frogs, are they the same sort of set up as a maranon?

Thanks

Matt


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

:welcome: Matt,both very similar really,we keep both side by side both are groups of 5 both in 60cubes. Matt I think you tank dimensions are going to scupper it's use. both sets of frogs will use every inch of a 60cube so 30high and deep for me at least will compromise their inate ability to climb,which is important in my eyes as this keeps them fit. Mate some of the earliest builds we did were mysites and leucs,look in my room thread here,tis lurking called Da dartroom,sure it's a big thread but you should be able to find build details for those viv not too far in. You will find one hell of a lot about mysties aswell as many folks were struggling with them back then,just a few years back. You are better going there and seeing the build rather than me posting a finished product pic me thinks:2thumb:

Mate choose the frog you will adore,I say this oft to a newer guy,tis very important,these little frogs can live a long time,you have to make this choice,we can only help
good luck
Stu


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## kwiky (Sep 3, 2006)

I've got Luecs currently in a 80 wide 50 high and 45 deep viv and seeing them scale the 50cm to the top in 2 or 3 leaps prompted me to go higher. They climb a lot! I've just had a 90x45x90 delivered and I have no doubt they'll use every inch. In the wild I'm sure there are rocks or tree trunks where they live that are way more than 90 high so the more height we can offer climbing species the better I believe. I'm not saying I think you have to go 90 high, that was just my personal preference but if I had owned the frogs before I bought my first viv and knew what they were like I'd have deffo gone 60 high minimum.

Phil


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

ok thanks Stu and Phil, i will look for a bigger viv then.

would i be able to mix frog species such as the mysties and bumblebees and how many would you think is a good number to house in a viv? 

Matt


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

snake boi said:


> ok thanks Stu and Phil, i will look for a bigger viv then.
> 
> would i be able to mix frog species such as the mysties and bumblebees and how many would you think is a good number to house in a viv?
> 
> Matt


No, don't bother mixing dart frogs species, there are vastly expereienced folk who have, but as a rule of thumb its frowned upon, they also tend to mix species which wont eat or crossbreed one another. aside from possible secretions that could effect the other species, cross breeding of frogs is very frowned upon and personally shouldn't be entertained as a thought. the problem with such an issue is one person might say its okay and then some kid goes and cross breeds his frog, but they come out looking like a full leuc (bumblebee) rather than a cross, they then sell that on as normal and before long the bloodlines are diluted and possible effects could damage the frogs.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

here's an idea of a 'Stu Viv'










and here's my new leucs home for five once i get my lighting hooked up on the new racking


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

ok, i wont mix frogs then haha. i think i prefer the bumblebees. wow, they are nice vivs, i will use those as a guide to design mine.

are bumblebees easy to breed and is there a market for them? if i was going to have 5 bumblebees would i have 4 females and a male?

Matt


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

they do what they do, if you're getting into dart frogs to make money, you're coming to the wrong section of the hobby.


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

no, i wasnt thinking of the money, i was thinking more of that i dont want a load of baby frogs if im not going to be able to sell them or get rid of them. it had nothing to do with the money. 

what is the best male to female ratio to have if i was getting 5 frogs?

Matt


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

it's an odd one, i've been pondering this because im currently in the process of adding an older gorup of two suspected females, never had them call and they come out when the male from the other group of three calls, but never call back. and in the other group of three there has also been no call battles etc. so it seems like 4-1 ratio, which isnt really ideal in regards to egg eating and possible female agression (which can occur) i've been tempted to add another male. 

breeding wise, like most dart frogs conditions usually bring on breeding, more 'rain fall' and food. i've not bred any yet personally. as for the eggs, if you dont want to be over run you could leave the eggs in there and let nature take its course

imagine stu and mike will be along at some point, they've both had great success with breeding


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

oh ok, i will see what Stu and Mike think. ok, so if i do breed them i will need somewhere else to incubate the eggs?

can you explain what you mean by 'so it seems like 4-1 ratio, which isnt really ideal in regards to egg eating and possible female agression (which can occur) i've been tempted to add another male.' 

do you mean that females will eat each others eggs if they arent all able to mate?

i found a website that has a list of the latin name for a variety of dart frogs, i like the look of Ranitomeya vanzolinii but i cant seem to find another name for them. do you know of another name that people call them?

Matt


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

latin names is what we use, 'bumblebee' we all refer as Leucs, dendrobates Leucomelas. Maranon are Mysties, excidobates mysteriosus.

you'll have more luck finding Vanzo's using the latin name rather than any cool name they get given


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

oh ok thanks, if i was to breed frogs would i need an unrelated pair?

i will have a look around to see what i can find

Matt


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> they do what they do.



That probably sums them up.
I have a group of 5 and can`t guarantee getting any youngsters from them.
I do manage but they control things themselves as to how much breeding they do.
Egg eating happens all the time with them.
It is natures way for the females to wipe out the opposition, a bit like a male lion taking over another lions pride, the first thing he does is kill all the youngsters to make way for his own offspring.
So sometimes I`ll be lucky and find a new clutch of say 6 eggs which haven`t been eaten or I`ll find one egg with whats left of the other five.
Inbreeding doesn`t affect frogs in the same way as say you having kids with your sister and ending up with a bug eyed balding banjo playing throwback, for lack of a better description.
We all aim for unrelated pairs but it isn`t essential.


Mike


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

oh ok, that really helps, thanks Mike. i will see if i can find an unrelated group of Ranitomeya vanzolinii

thanks for all the help, if you have any other advice on keeping or breeding darts then please let me know :2thumb:

Matt


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Not sure where you live but a trip to Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper would be worthwhile for you .
I was talking to Marc last week and he has quite a few CB Vanzos coming through at the moment.
Remember though that Vanzos require a taller viv as they really do like climbing and spend most of their time up high.
Myself Joe and Stu could give you lots of advice on breeding frogs, but probably you`d end up with information overload and forget everything or just get lost amongst everything we chuck at you.
Concentrate on getting your viv set up and then when the time comes we can then help with the finer details of actually keeping the frogs.
You`ll probably find that you`ll absorb everything a lot more easily like that.


Mike


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## snake boi (Jun 28, 2009)

ok thanks, that it quite a long way from me. im just south of London so it will be quite a journey for me to get there. i will see if the place were i work can order some in for me

ok fair enough, i will try it out and see what happens. if i dont get to the eggs in time then the frogs will have another meal haha.
ok, i will get the viv set up. 

Thanks Mike

Matt


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Matt we describe a group of dart by a sex ratio like Joe did convention is a:b:c
where a=males b=females and unknown sex whether kid or adult is c. I have a group of 5 leucs in a 3:2 group ie 3 males 2 females. I don't see a lot of egg eating,but for sure others do as above from mike. 

Mate if you did a hell of alot more research and had your culturing wired, then maybe starting with vanzos would be an option,at the moment and only going off the questions you have asked, I would recommend something slightly more forgiving of beginner mistakes. Matt be very aware I'm a slow old sod,we did nearly 2 years of research and homework,so i'm not one to rush in and a lot slower than most. But god that time spent with folks taking the mick,ha stuey no frogs:lol2: was the best move we could have made!! Get ya head down bro read hard anything is possible from there. Not all frogs are as easy to keep as others,although the base parameters are the roughly the same,some simply require a bit more experience/knowledge.

good luck

Stu


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