# DWA Mentors in Essex?



## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

Hi guys, I'm 18 on the 12th, and I'd like to get some mentoring in handling venomous snakes in Essex. If anyone knows any shops or keepers who would be willing to help that would be great! The closer to the Colchester area the better. Thanks.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Have you got experience with snakes in general ? 18 seems very young and when I had mentees i honestly wouldn’t even start until said mentee had years of experience.

Have you got the financial means to go towards a license ? Not to mention the cost of preparing a room. The license alone costs several 100 quid plus vet inspection that can be several 100.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

Jibbajabba said:


> Have you got experience with snakes in general ? 18 seems very young and when I had mentees i honestly wouldn’t even start until said mentee had years of experience.
> 
> Have you got the financial means to go towards a license ? Not to mention the cost of preparing a room. The license alone costs several 100 quid plus vet inspection that can be several 100.


Ive had a few snakes since i was around 12, including a really nasty boa i rescued from a guy who was too scared to open its enclosure and another i treated for a not too severe respiratory infection. And yes, I move out of home in september and will be more than financially capable. I obviously cant build out a room at my mums house, but wanted to start getting training for when i will be able to in the next few months/ towards the end of the year.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Good. Just checking. I had all sorts of odd people asking back in the day. My license expired and I gave up hots but good luck.

Get a false water cobra and train on her


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

You really need to know what type of snake you're after,


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Moving out in September suggests going to university?
If that's the case when you say "moving out" what will you be "moving in" to?


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

ian14 said:


> Moving out in September suggests going to university?
> If that's the case when you say "moving out" what will you be "moving in" to?


Im actually starting my 2nd year in college (stayed back a year for better A levels). And a house near to both my college and the University I'll be going to after I finish in May.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

GT2540 said:


> You really need to know what type of snake you're after,


I want to keep cobras mainly, but i also know thats not a very responsible first venomous.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Not sure that many students are 'financially capable' at 18!

Everything is so expensive these days - food, accommodation, going out, drinks, petrol etc......


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Not sure that many students are 'financially capable' at 18!
> 
> Everything is so expensive these days - food, accommodation, going out, drinks, petrol etc......


That's my thought too.
Seems very odd.
Let's think about this sensibly.
Assuming he thinks he is buying a house, how will that work? I doubt very much at 18/19 he has saved enough for the 10% deposit. The there's the mortgage. I doubt that any lender will give a mortgage to a university student. And even if they did, how is he going to be able to study full time AND work a full time job to be able to pay mortgage payments, council tax, gas/water/electric bills, broadband, food, the cost of maintaining reptiles??
It just does not ring true.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

waharding said:


> Im actually starting my 2nd year in college (stayed back a year for better A levels). And a house near to both my college and the University I'll be going to after I finish in May.


Sorry to sound like I'm pulling you apart but I'm going to.
College courses follow the academic year, especially if, from what you have said, you stayed back for better A levels. The exams are held at the same time whether you are at school or at college. So that would be June to July. So not quite sure how you can be finishing college in May if you are sitting A levels??
And until you have your results, you won't know if you will actually be going to University, as they give conditional offers for entry, ie you get a place as long as you reach set A level grades.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

ian14 said:


> Sorry to sound like I'm pulling you apart but I'm going to.
> College courses follow the academic year, especially if, from what you have said, you stayed back for better A levels. The exams are held at the same time whether you are at school or at college. So that would be June to July. So not quite sure how you can be finishing college in May if you are sitting A levels??
> And until you have your results, you won't know if you will actually be going to University, as they give conditional offers for entry, ie you get a place as long as you reach set A level grades.


A levels are sat in May, just before GCSEs that start in June. Im also a straight A student, I'm not sure you know as much about the schooling system as you're making out.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

ian14 said:


> That's my thought too.
> Seems very odd.
> Let's think about this sensibly.
> Assuming he thinks he is buying a house, how will that work? I doubt very much at 18/19 he has saved enough for the 10% deposit. The there's the mortgage. I doubt that any lender will give a mortgage to a university student. And even if they did, how is he going to be able to study full time AND work a full time job to be able to pay mortgage payments, council tax, gas/water/electric bills, broadband, food, the cost of maintaining reptiles??
> It just does not ring true.


I have a very kind father who owns property and will rent it to me. And yes I do work very close to full time on a good wage on top of college. Terribly sorry if it doesn't ring true to you but thats the facts. I came here to ask if anyone could mentor me with venomous snakes and we moved onto my personal finances and college life. Not sure how or why but it seems very irrelevant to my original post.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Not sure that many students are 'financially capable' at 18!
> 
> Everything is so expensive these days - food, accommodation, going out, drinks, petrol etc......


You're right that not many students are financially capable but that doesn't mean none are. I work incredibly hard at all the things I do which is why I'm not like most students. I'm also very lucky to have a father in property to help me out. We aren't all the same you know?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

What are you hoping to study at university?


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> What are you hoping to study at university?


Statistics/ Data Science


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

waharding said:


> A levels are sat in May, just before GCSEs that start in June. Im also a straight A student, I'm not sure you know as much about the schooling system as you're making out.


You need to take a step back young man.
11 GCSEs, 4 A levels and a BSc(Hons) degree.
So yes, I do know the schooling system rather well.
Quite frankly you are coming across as an extremely arrogant young man who, if what you say is true, has absolutely no concept about money, value, or work. 
If, as you say, you will be buying your own place at 19, then good for you. But you come across as arrogant, rude and with literally no understanding of the real world.
A rich daddy does not make you a decent person, as has been clearly shown here.
You have shown yourself to be someone who believes that you can do as you want if you have money behind you. And in many cases, yes you can!
But in this specific case, no.
You want to keep dangerous snakes, great! But don't think, please, that being wealthy means you can just get what you want.
At your age, start slowly. If you have the financial means to pursue keeping venomous snakes then that's great! But you also need to accept that they pose a serious risk to others. The law is written not to protect the keeper, but the public. 
If you are dead set on this, my advice would be to start off with rear fanged, aggressive but non deadly species. False Water Cobras, mangrove snakes etc.
These will give you a good opportunity to develop the skills needed to safely manage elapids and viperids, and also to develop the knowledge and ability of keeping species that need a lot more than a corn snake or a royal python.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

ian14 said:


> You need to take a step back young man.
> 11 GCSEs, 4 A levels and a BSc(Hons) degree.
> So yes, I do know the schooling system rather well.
> Quite frankly you are coming across as an extremely arrogant young man who, if what you say is true, has absolutely no concept about money, value, or work.
> ...


I have money behind me because I work hard, not because of my dad so lets get that clear. I have access to certain oppurtunities like being able to rent a place so easily because of him but that in no way means I dont understand the concept of money and work. I study full time and still work almost full time around it in the evenings. Im young but I think you would be more than suprised how much I know about the 'real world' especially at my age. I will admit im incredibly arrogant and i have no shame in admitting it. I do apolagise for coming across as rude though, i never mean to be. Thanks for your advice, I had started looking into the rear fanged snakes after a previous suggestion on this post and will probably pick one up to start with after i move into my new place. Thanks again


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

That's great.
However, please be aware that renting and owning are world's apart with the DWAA.
You need permission from the landlord as part of a DWAL.
The local authority will not entertain an application without the landlords written consent.
Admitting to being arrogant is, however, a brave thing, and you deserve kudos for that. It puts you above many others who are in a similar position as yourself. There are not many people able to do so, and to be fair you have not been rude. If you have the financial means to set yourself up keeping hots then go for it.


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## waharding (Jul 9, 2021)

ian14 said:


> That's great.
> However, please be aware that renting and owning are world's apart with the DWAA.
> You need permission from the landlord as part of a DWAL.
> The local authority will not entertain an application without the landlords written consent.
> Admitting to being arrogant is, however, a brave thing, and you deserve kudos for that. It puts you above many others who are in a similar position as yourself. There are not many people able to do so, and to be fair you have not been rude. If you have the financial means to set yourself up keeping hots then go for it.


Yeah I'll keep that in mind and make sure i can get it on paper before I start building the room. Do you know any good places to start learning about bite protocols and room layout?


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

Room needs the following

Two locked doors between the tank and the outside world.
Sealed so an escaped animal cannot find its way out.
Clutter free, you want to be able to easily get the snake when it bolts off the hook. You don't want to be laying on the floor trying to hook it out from underneath something.
For cobra's they generally strike when something is below them when hooded. If the tank is higher than your hands it will lunge at you once the door is open, as it will see the movement. Too close to the ground and it will often jump onto the floor. Once on the floor it will probably charge you.
A glass door to the room is good, so you can see if anything may take you by surprise.
It is good to have a sink and water supply. Saves leaving the room for each water change.
Room signed, warning of what is in it and emergency contact numbers, local hospital and back up handler are a must.
Clock
Marker pen, permanent ink

Equipment

Hooks, Grab sticks, Lockable bin, Etc, go without saying.
A torch is useful
Venom extractor, you can get these from the states
Something to incapacitate the snake if needed
Have spares of everything. Locks, hooks, and an empty tank is good. Break the tank glass whilst cleaning and you have a problem.

Tank needs to be labelled with what is in them in Latin with quantity.

Tanks are best being sparse. Cobra's are a very strong snake, if they can get a loop around something it can be a tug of war.

Local Hospital, Fire and Police need to be notified as to what you keep. The fire service may let your property burn to the ground rather than risking their staff.

Protocols

You need to to be able to secure/incapacitate the snake once it has bitten.
Remove label from tank and attach it to you. You may be unconscious before you can tell anyone what has bitten you.
Attach venom extractor too bite site.
Mark around bite site with a marker pen and write the time. This is why you need a clock/marker in the room. If you're able, mark and time around the edge of the swelling every 15 minutes or so. This allows the hospital to have an educated guess at the rate of swelling, they need this as swelling in certain areas is fatal, such as airways or blood flow.
Get to hospital
Pray



ian14 said:


> If you are dead set on this, my advice would be to start off with rear fanged, aggressive but non deadly species. False Water Cobras, mangrove snakes etc.
> These will give you a good opportunity to develop the skills needed to safely manage elapids and viperids, and also to develop the knowledge and ability of keeping species that need a lot more than a corn snake or a royal python.


You need to be comfortable with using a hook. I would suggest using a hook for any snake you have. You will get to learn what to do when the snake wraps around the hook and you can't get it off. What direction the snake will move if you hook it from the right or left. How much weight you can support with a hook Etc. It does not need to be venomous in any way to learn this.
Each person handles snakes differently. I prefer one hook and bare hands. Others work better with a grab stick and a hook, some two hooks, others just a grab stick and some just gloves. It is better to find what you are comfortable with. What is good for one is not good for all. So take all advice with caution even from experienced keepers.

A mangrove behaves like a mangrove, a false water cobra behaves like a false water cobra. The do not prepare you for a cobra, only a cobra behaves like a cobra and this varies a lot for each individual snake. The above advice above is from someone who does not keep venomous and has little to no experience of them. It's like getting a domestic cat to teach you to handle a Scottish wild cat.

The difficulty with handling venomous is more mental than anything. Most experienced snake keepers have the skills to handle Hots. It's a case of you being calm enough to be able to practice those skills when something that is capable and willing to kill you is at close quarter.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mangrove behaves like a mangrove, a false water cobra behaves like a false water cobra. The do not prepare you for a cobra, only a cobra behaves like a cobra and this varies a lot for each individual snake. The above advice above is from someone who does not keep venomous and has little to no experience of them. It's like getting a domestic cat to teach you to handle a Scottish wild cat.


That's a very fair point, and one that I completely agree with.
But what is better. A complete novice, no experience of keeping snakes, diving in the EXTREMELY deep end and keeping hots, OR at the very least gaining some experience with a mildly venomous, often aggressive species first?
By the way, while I don't keep venomous, I have had experience with them.

On a more positive note, it is very refreshing to see someone with experience offering practical advice and guidance to a potential keeper.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

I always used a false water cobra when mentoring hopefuls. In fact, when I sold hots I always made sure I deliver them no matter where they are. I always insisted seeing the room and how they handle the snake. Sure, some buyers told me to FO but that was fine with me. I never felt comfortable letting people out of the house with a weapon that is triggered by thin air. 

And I agree that each snake handles differently and a non hot cannot really be taken as example in how to handle hots, but you need to start somewhere. And for me it was important to see how a snake being handled with a hook, not as a proof said person can handle hots. You can easily spot bad habits. I had someone that told me he had YEARS of experience and when I asked him to handle my FWC he was all over the place. Shaking, nervous, hold the hook half way down the shaft and couldn't even keep it hooked to begin with as it kept flinging itself at him. I must add - my FWC was an utter psycho - so perfect for mentoring really  In fact, in that instance I actually refused to sell and went back home with the noodle. 

The one (well one of many) challenge will be to find a vet who is happy to sign off the inspection. 

But 100% agree - it is always wise to start with non hot snakes and use hooks or other handling equipment exclusively to ensure it becomes second nature. 

Then you say 'Cobras' ... I'd make sure you know the differences. Are you talking about Kings, Spitting, Monocled, Indian, Malaysian - vast differences in husbandry ...


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