# Help my Goldfish, please



## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

For some reason he's on his side and his tail has split into like strips and his fins are too. He's a fancy fantail. His fins and tails look infected. He's 18 months old, no problems before apart from white spot which cleared about 4-5 weeks ago after treatment, bloody new stock. Tank is 4 feet, 4 tank mates, all fine. Water parameters perfect, filtration and airiation (spelling sorry) are both strong and efficient. I've separated him and given him salt baths to try and reduce infection.
This is the third day and he looks pretty crap.
Thanks, Liam


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## white (May 16, 2009)

could be a problem with the swim bladder


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

white said:


> could be a problem with the swim bladder


Well I assumed that, just never seen the damage on fins like that before. I've stopped feeding to help with the swim bladder problem, although they are nowhere near overfed.


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## akelly (Mar 3, 2009)

swim bladder gone, and other fish eatting him slowly, which they are known to do to fan tails. once the bladder is gone there is nothing much you can do for him, sorry


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

akelly said:


> swim bladder gone, and other fish eatting him slowly, which they are known to do to fan tails. once the bladder is gone there is nothing much you can do for him, sorry


Ok well he is separate for now. Considering culling him, but I have had fish recover from swim bladder probs before. What may have caused this? Like I said water is perfect, if anything else could cause is then I need to fix it for the other fish. Very attached to these guys. (They even have names, look in my sig lol)


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## princess (May 17, 2009)

i suggest 3 things.

1.Qaurentine and don't feed for 3 days
2.There is swimbladder treatment you can buy i've never used it but might be worth a shot.
3.pop the swim 

Its immune system will be low to treat with an anti-internal bacteria medication whilst it's in 3 days qaurentine with no food. Also you might want to try epsom salts 
The water in the QT tank is shallow yeah?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

princess said:


> i suggest 3 things.
> 
> 1.Qaurentine and don't feed for 3 days
> 2.There is swimbladder treatment you can buy i've never used it but might be worth a shot.
> ...


I will have a look, I fear tomorrow maybe too late, but he's well outlived my expectations. 1. is already covered. Number 3 sounds too scary.


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## princess (May 17, 2009)

I don't blame you i wouldn't pop a swim bladder, has been done though always an option thought i'd put it out there.

ahhhhhhh get the clove oil ready.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

I can't do that to my fluffy  He seems quite cheerful, just lying there on his side. If he's no better by tomorrow, clove oil it is. I saw deep sea divers on tv popping swim bladders on marine fish while taking them to the surface. Looks way to scary.


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

I cant understand some of the manufacturers that sell the food, i was told and have read that fancies should be fed sinking food, to reduce the fish taking in too much air if they were feeding from the surface etc which can cause swimbladder problems, so why can i only find 1 or 2 brands of food that actually sinks  .......unless this is one of them myth's ........i dont know?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

labmad said:


> I cant understand some of the manufacturers that sell the food, i was told and have read that fancies should be fed sinking food, to reduce the fish taking in too much air if they were feeding from the surface etc which can cause swimbladder problems, so why can i only find 1 or 2 brands of food that actually sinks  .......unless this is one of them myth's ........i dont know?


I've never heard that. Makes sense. I may swap next time I buy some, nearly ran out of flake. I also feed them live, frozen and vegetable matter.


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

The 2 foods i have at the mo is a tetra gold type thats sinking, and a hikari one that chuffin floats, i'm guessing the latter is japanese or chinese, and as many fancies originate from these areas you'd think they'd be the people that would be in the know.........hmmmm, makes you wonder i guess, but i have heard they should be fed sinking food on many occasions......mine also love odd bits of bloodworm, cockle etc, but just now and again


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

labmad said:


> I cant understand some of the manufacturers that sell the food, i was told and have read that fancies should be fed sinking food, to reduce the fish taking in too much air if they were feeding from the surface etc which can cause swimbladder problems, so why can i only find 1 or 2 brands of food that actually sinks  .......unless this is one of them myth's ........i dont know?


 you're correct 

s'pose if you had flakes you could push them down to make them sink :hmm:


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

daftlassieEmma said:


> you're correct
> 
> s'pose if you had flakes you could push them down to make them sink :hmm:


I do that anyway. They seem to like picking it off the gravel, which is always perfectly clean thanks to them.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

LiamRatSnake said:


> I do that anyway. They seem to like picking it off the gravel, which is always perfectly clean thanks to them.


 ah, cool 

salt cures swimbladder trouble very well but i can't remember the ratios...your lfs should be able to help : victory:


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

try pre soaking the food to see if it sinks once you put it in the tank


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

labmad said:


> try pre soaking the food to see if it sinks once you put it in the tank


Yeah, it works just pushing it in  
I'm also using the ratio 2-3% salt 27-98% water, by weight for 20 mins or so.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Any more ideas for what I can do???


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

UPDATE: Got worse today, so I dispatched him quickly as he was suffering. RIP Fluffy poor bugger was only about 2 - 2 1/2


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

sorry to hear this mate


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## princess (May 17, 2009)

labmad said:


> The 2 foods i have at the mo is a tetra gold type thats sinking, and a hikari one that chuffin floats, i'm guessing the latter is japanese or chinese, and as many fancies originate from these areas you'd think they'd be the people that would be in the know.........hmmmm, makes you wonder i guess, but i have heard they should be fed sinking food on many occasions......mine also love odd bits of bloodworm, cockle etc, but just now and again


Fish don't get swim bladder from taking in surface air when feeding.There are three main possibilities to investigate: diet, infection and genetic defects. :2thumb:
Goldfish don't have lungs and their swim bladder is not connected to the fish "breathing". The swim-bladder is an air-filled sac laying just under the backbone, i wouldn't worry it is really common my guess is genetic.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

done a bit of reserch with regards as to intake of air contributing to swimbladder problems (in fancy goldfish):

*"Feeding dry foods which tend to take on water like a sponge and expand in the fish can result in food impactions. There are a number of references that state fish feeding at the surface will take in air with the food and this may result in swim bladder problems. In fact, this is not true. It is the swelling/expansion of food in the gut that causes impaction and it is the impaction, NOT AIR, that causes swim bladder problems."*

you learn something new every day : victory:


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Good info  I've done some water changes, just to be on the safe side, although it's all fine. The others are doing fine anyway. I'm dead sad about it lol


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Sorry about that, did sound like a swim bladder problem . R.I.P


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

LiamRatSnake said:


> I'm dead sad


Lame pun :whistling2:

RIP.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

_jake_ said:


> Sorry about that, did sound like a swim bladder problem . R.I.P


Thanking you. Yeah I agree. My OH said she'll get me a couple of new ones so that will be nice lol


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

AshMashMash said:


> Lame pun :whistling2:
> 
> RIP.


Sorry lol:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Aww that's good news . You getting fancies or another species?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

_jake_ said:


> Aww that's good news . You getting fancies or another species?


Fancies all the way. I can't think of any other cold water sp to suit. Minnows would be gobbled by my biggest Bruce. Ideas very welcome. There's a nice big one in Swan Street PS which I have my eye on.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Golden Barb's I believe can live at room temperature, how about some danios?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

_jake_ said:


> Golden Barb's I believe can live at room temperature, how about some danios?


Are Golden Barbs similar in temperament to Tiger Barbs? I don't want fish which will nip my fantails, also I like Danios and never knew they could live at room temp. What about non-fishy species? I'm not very good at apple snails.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

no, they are very calm, great community species. And yeah, all species of danio's. I think most snails can too


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

_jake_ said:


> no, they are very calm, great community species. And yeah, all species of danio's. I think most snails can too


I kill apple snails. I will look into Danios and barbs.


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## princess (May 17, 2009)

No i would not get any other type of fish, stick to goldfish. If you want to get barbs or danio set-up a tropical.

Just because some trops CAN live in cold water doesn't mean they should, danio like cool water not goldfish cold.Also not just the temp but the PH and other things need to be looked at.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

i saw a past PFK how-to article for a tank for fancies, danios, peaceful barbs and rainbows on the basis that all species preferred cool not cold water

emphasis was placed on aereation and filtration


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

daftlassieEmma said:


> i saw a past PFK how-to article for a tank for fancies, danios, peaceful barbs and rainbows on the basis that all species preferred cool not cold water
> 
> emphasis was placed on aereation and filtration


I have very strong aeration and filtration.


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