# stopping a psycho dog?



## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

the dog we recently got has a thing for horses.

We had a problem this afternoon when we took him to the new forest, he took us by suprise and bolted, took his lead with him and attacked 5 horses before we managed to get him back.

Luckily neither him or the horses got hurt and they soon went off and calmed down.

Is there any way of training the dog to not do that? he is a year old so is still young enough to train.

He is a good dog, doesnt attack other dogs, and is great with kids, his last owners had 2 he was great with and is even ok with the cats, he just wants to sniff their butts.

But horses are dangerous! I know for sure from now on im going to have hold of his lead a lot stronger!


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

I'd say if his prey drive is that high I wouldnt even bother trying, it will be too stressful for him and the horses. 

I would make sure he is securely on lead at all times and if there is a risk of him getting off he should be muzzled. That or walk elsewhere. As I would imagine you could get in quite a fair bit of trouble if he were caught chasing and attacking the ponies.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

marthaMoo said:


> I'd say if his prey drive is that high I wouldnt even bother trying, it will be too stressful for him and the horses.
> 
> I would make sure he is securely on lead at all times and if there is a risk of him getting off he should be muzzled. That or walk elsewhere. As I would imagine you could get in quite a fair bit of trouble if he were caught chasing and attacking the ponies.


yeah, we didnt let him off, he bolted big time and the lead flung out of my hand! 

theres no way i would purposely put any animal in danger, wether its a wild one or pet, luckily no one got hurt, just startled the ponys more than anything.

would getting him neutured help the problem? we are hopefully soon getting that done!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

what breed is he? You need to hold the lead tight to ensure it doesn't 'get flung out of' your hand. You need to do some serious training with him to get him to listen to you and come back when called and that would start with a good traing class. You can't just train him not to chase horses, it's a whole bigger picture than that and the running off and attacking anything is one sign that he simply doesn't even consider you as a leader or his boss as he can just do as he pleases. He may not have bitten the horses but if any of them are heavy in foal, he may easily have caused them to abort their foals. You are aware that a land or livestock owner is legally entitled to shoot the dog for doing what he did, and then sue you on top for any damage caused to the livestock?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> what breed is he? You need to hold the lead tight to ensure it doesn't 'get flung out of' your hand. You need to do some serious training with him to get him to listen to you and come back when called and that would start with a good traing class. You can't just train him not to chase horses, it's a whole bigger picture than that and the running off and attacking anything is one sign that he simply doesn't even consider you as a leader or his boss as he can just do as he pleases. He may not have bitten the horses but if any of them are heavy in foal, he may easily have caused them to abort their foals. You are aware that a land or livestock owner is legally entitled to shoot the dog for doing what he did, and then sue you on top for any damage caused to the livestock?


Hes only had the dog for a few days (about 5 days I think)


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Hes only had the dog for a few days (about 5 days I think)


 Ahh I see. Even more reason to either not take it near livestock, or to expect it to want to chase and have a firm hold on the lead. None of my lot have seen sheep as this isn't sheep country. If I walked any of them near a field of sheep I would be nervously anticipating a reaction from them , so would be on my guard.
I hope he takes it to some good training classes as a routine and firm direction will also help the dog settle.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Ahh I see. Even more reason to either not take it near livestock, or to expect it to want to chase and have a firm hold on the lead. None of my lot have seen sheep as this isn't sheep country. If I walked any of them near a field of sheep I would be nervously anticipating a reaction from them , so would be on my guard.
> I hope he takes it to some good training classes as a routine and firm direction will also help the dog settle.


he was in the new forest, which has wild ponys.

he is a staffy/rotty, and we was walking him and took me by suprise.

its not like i let him off purposely to harm any animal so please do not make it out to be my fault.

i merely asked if there was anything can be done to curb this behaviour, and if so what route to go. The last dog i had we had for 15 years, he never had any problems like this. We took our time on deciding if we should get another dog and rehomed this little fella recently.

I know he is a powerful dog, and i admit i need to be more alert when walking him.

If you know the new forest though you would also know that u could be walking along then all of a sudden out of no where there would be a pony!

As said previously, none of the animals were hurt and we did get him back just wondered if anyone knew of ideas of how to curb the behaviour or wether its a behaviour i will have to work around.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Mush said:


> he was in the new forest, which has wild ponys.
> 
> he is a staffy/rotty, and we was walking him and took me by suprise.
> 
> ...


I just read your other thread on the dog and now realise he is a new dog to you. You still have to have a tight hold on the leash at all times in case anything unexpected occurs. It may be that the dog is never going to be safe around horses, in which case, perhaps you might need to find a place to walk him where there is no livestock, otherwise, as I mentioned before, training classes to make him always be looking to you for guidance and not simply making the decision to run off, by himself. He may not have actually bitten the horses, but as I said before, and heavily pregnant mare could have been so badly scared that she's gone off and aborted her foal the same evening. It happens.
I think you can get strong leads which you can clip to a belt. Plus get a muzzle as someone else has mentioned. If an irate farmer comes along and he has managed to pull free again, fault or no fault, your dog may well pay with his life.
I have to say that if any strange dog came onto my land and spooked my goats, I would have no hesitation in shooting it.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

We recently Rescued a young Tup (male sheep) that had been mauled by a dog. Knowing sheep, I checked him over and he was in shock. Had to carry him back to the farm and get him in farmers landrover, where he went off to the vet.

I'm glad to say that any of mine have always been good around livestock. They have to be. But we had puppies who we introduced to livestock at a young age. Older dogs we have trained around livestock, specially our Springer, who until came to me had been a City dog living in a flat. So she had no experience with livestock. But because we have a pony, who aslong as the dog is with me, is willing to help train them cause she is fearless around dogs, a trait she got from her mental mother, loose dogs in her field would be chased, bitten and booted. My pony alos has a dislike for muzzled dogs. And has put herself and me, between a muzzled dog off lead, and my Children. with me shouting at the owner to 'Rescue' her dog right away before it had a hoof shaped hole in it's head.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> We recently Rescued a young Tup (male sheep) that had been mauled by a dog. Knowing sheep, I checked him over and he was in shock. Had to carry him back to the farm and get him in farmers landrover, where he went off to the vet.
> 
> I'm glad to say that any of mine have always been good around livestock. They have to be. But we had puppies who we introduced to livestock at a young age. Older dogs we have trained around livestock, specially our Springer, who until came to me had been a City dog living in a flat. So she had no experience with livestock. But because we have a pony, who aslong as the dog is with me, is willing to help train them cause she is fearless around dogs, a trait she got from her mental mother, loose dogs in her field would be chased, bitten and booted. My pony alos has a dislike for muzzled dogs. And has put herself and me, between a muzzled dog off lead, and my Children. *with me shouting at the owner to 'Rescue' her dog right away before it had a hoof shaped hole in it's head.*


I hope she listened we werent so lucky when we were hacking along a bridlepath and a dog walker had their staffie off the lead. The staffie went straight upto the horses and mauled my companions horses leg. When he let go the horse did boot him and the woman did try to sue. When will some people learn.

Sounds like an amazing pony u have there.


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

Without looking to apportion blame for this incident, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your dog is under control. This is not my opinion it is the law in this country. If you have a powerful dog and it can just jerk the lead out of your hand and it does not listen to your instruction then it is NOT under your control. You need to tackle this situation.

If the dog is so much stronger then I would suggest walking it on a harness (less chance of it pulling free) and always making sure you have your hand through the loop of the lead (so the loop is around your wrist and you are grasping the lead itself). These little steps will make it much harder for your dog to pull free. 

In the long term, training classes will help you to work with your dog. Highly recommended.


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

selina20 said:


> I hope she listened we werent so lucky when we were hacking along a bridlepath and a dog walker had their staffie off the lead. The staffie went straight upto the horses and mauled my companions horses leg. When he let go the horse did boot him and the woman did try to sue. When will some people learn.
> 
> Sounds like an amazing pony u have there.


We've had her since she was 15months old, so she has grown up with the kids. She'll sometimes put herself between me and the kids and strange Blokes lol She adores my hubby tho, mainly cause she knows she can flutter her eyelashes at him and get away with anything! lol
The woman wasn't going to put him on a lead at first. I had asked nicely aswell. So second time it was a warning 'Look! Get your dog on a lead or it's gonna be a dead dog! She'll have her hooves straight through your dogs skull!'
She moved pretty fast then. But Spooky was Screaming at it, and pawing the ground and snorting. 
We then passed a cocker, well behaved and on lead, and she never batted an eyelid.

I had a dog who was blind in one eye, have a horse who was being led, come over and Snort over his head, he stood still and never moved a muscle, we kinda stuck in a lane so no where to move, and he was pulled in by the girl riding who was leading him, and carried on. Dante just looked at me, horse snot on his head, as if to say 'I'm covered in snot! Thanks for that!'

I think it's because I have seen the damage dogs can do to Horses and other Livestock. We also had sheep at school and had 2 Rotties loose on school grounds. They chased the sheep before the dog warden caught them, and we had all young ewes abort lambs that night. Wasn't a happy sight coming in to check them before school, like I did every day from starting school!, to find 4 Aborted lambs and 2 very sad looking Ewes.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

ipsilon said:


> Without looking to apportion blame for this incident, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your dog is under control. This is not my opinion it is the law in this country. If you have a powerful dog and it can just jerk the lead out of your hand and it does not listen to your instruction then it is NOT under your control. You need to tackle this situation.
> 
> If the dog is so much stronger then I would suggest walking it *on a harness (less chance of it pulling free)* and always making sure you have your hand through the loop of the lead (so the loop is around your wrist and you are grasping the lead itself). These little steps will make it much harder for your dog to pull free.
> 
> In the long term, training classes will help you to work with your dog. Highly recommended.



for f*cks sake i came on here for bloomin advice on how to try and fix this problem and u lot being u lot have decided to turn it into something nasty yet again.

first of all as highlighted above he* IS *on a harness. I wouldnt walk him any other way

Whats the damn point of a bloody forum if you are unable to actually ask any advice due to a**holes like you.

do you think its best i come online and ask people what course of action to try and take to solve a problem or leave the problem to fester????

get a f*cking grip and grow up and stop slating people who dont deserve it.


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## sophs87 (Jan 25, 2009)

Mush said:


> for f*cks sake i came on here for bloomin advice on how to try and fix this problem and u lot being u lot have decided to turn it into something nasty yet again.
> 
> first of all as highlighted above he* IS *on a harness. I wouldnt walk him any other way
> 
> ...


 



this is very common on here now!! shame!! nearlly everything i post the same faces appear JUST to leave a negative comment, my dog was like this when she was a bit younger, not listening to me! shed follow joggers down the park, walk of with people and id be there shouting her name like a right idiot being ignored, your best bet is to in the house make sure he comes back when you call his name, everytime and reward it then in bigger confined place and so on. when your walking him have a firm hold of the lead. i had a 20ft horse leash for one of my dogs as i think them extendable ones are shit! and as i wasnt willing to let her off the lead,this was great. when he even looks at a horse tug the lead firmly so you position his head in a different direction. making it clear he cant even look! do this everytiome. it just sounds that hes thinking he is better than u and can do what he wants :whip: they r funny lol
like you said hes good with cats and kids ect so maybe its just he hasnt seen a horse before and is curious, im sure you wouldnt let him of the lead on purpose and good for you asking for advise instead of letting it get worse. i have never been to one, but a training class may be a good idea. 
good luck!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I can understand why people are cross, we are talking about animals lives at risk here, both the dog and the horses. 

I know the New Forest well, as I used to live in Bournemouth and often walk or ride there. The ponies are not 'wild' they are all owned by farmers/people who have rights to turn them out on the New Forest. 

You have anew dog, and if you know theree is a chance you can walk into a pony round any corner, you should really be more on your guard. If you have a strong dog, a halti or similar may be more useful than a harness, as harnesses don't really give you much control over the dog. 

Keep in on the lead around any livestock and find a good training class. There is a very good lady called Donna Skinsley in Verwood. You can find her details on www.apdt.co.uk


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

midori said:


> I can understand why people are cross, we are talking about animals lives at risk here, both the dog and the horses.
> 
> I know the New Forest well, as I used to live in Bournemouth and often walk or ride there. The ponies are not 'wild' they are all owned by farmers/people who have rights to turn them out on the New Forest.
> 
> ...


i am cross because i asked for advice on how to deal with the problem, not as to where the blame lies.

I know the ponys are actually owned however i said wild as they have free roam, we didnt know he would be funny with them, he has been to the forest 3 times since we have had him and this was the only time we had an issue.

He WAS on his lead, with a harness, just he took me unexpected.

It is not on that this thread has turned into one where blame is now being thrown about, when the whole point of this thread was to ask if he could be trained out of it or not, wether it is a behaviour that can be changed or not.

at the end of the day no animals were hurt and i think im taking this responsibly by ASKING before even considering taking him there again.

Thanks for the link, il give it a looksey


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

He is trainable. Does he like toys if so do what I did with my GSD bitch, I got her so focused on a Frisbee she doesnt notice anything else just me and her frisbee nothing else registers when we are out. She carries it the whole time we are out and is just waiting for it to be thrown.She would do cartwheels if I asked her too just so I throw her frisbee as a reward She has gone from the dog from hell to an angel all because of a frisbee. Teach him the leave command start at home with cats and rabbits and reward him when he looks away when given the command. Enjoy your walks in the new forest it wont be long before your gorgeous boy ignores the ponies

Also perhaps until you are sure he will leave the ponies alone use a training lead with the harness he already has this will give you more control over him.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> He is trainable. Does he like toys if so do what I did with my GSD bitch, I got her so focused on a Frisbee she doesnt notice anything else just me and her frisbee nothing else registers when we are out. She carries it the whole time we are out and is just waiting for it to be thrown.She would do cartwheels if I asked her too just so I throw her frisbee as a reward She has gone from the dog from hell to an angel all because of a frisbee. Teach him the leave command start at home with cats and rabbits and reward him when he looks away when given the command. Enjoy your walks in the new forest it wont be long before your gorgeous boy ignores the ponies
> 
> Also perhaps until you are sure he will leave the ponies alone use a training lead with the harness he already has this will give you more control over him.


thanks hun, he likes his ball but ignores it if there are more interesting things, we are going to try a frisbee though. 

we helped him settling in at home with lots of treats, we dont think he had EVER seen cats and rabbits before but hes fine with them now, even allows the youngest kitty to play with his tail.

I just want to be able to walk him in the forest without him being mean to anything, with such a huge forest right on the doorstep i dont want to just leave it, plus i enjoy going in the forest too


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

iv always found they can pull harder with a harness on id try some other type of gear


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I dont blame you Id love to live near the New Forest or Dartmoor:flrt:

He will be fine it was probably the novelty of seeing them and once he gets used to seeing them the novelty will wear off. Just have him on a training lead so you have more control. You could also put a few small pebbles in a small plastic bottle and shake it when you say leave then reward him for looking at you. He really is a handsome boy, I love him:flrt:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

How about using a combination of a halti harness and a collar when out? With a double ended lead. That way, when he pulls his head turns towards you?


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> How about using a combination of a halti harness and a collar when out? With a double ended lead. That way, when he pulls his head turns towards you?


whats that like? might have to go back to pets at home to see what equipment is available etc.

We dont know much about his history tbh, all we know is hes a year old and he was given up because his previous owners had 2 kids and couldnt cope with a dog too!


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

there are collars with inside teeth...when the dog pulls they drive into the neck and pinch the skin. Try it...if that doesn't stop him the first or second time from pulling away from you then try something else. We used this once on a lurcher that would always try and pull himself free...never did it again and we have never needed to use it there after. But living on the forest it is a must to be able to keep your dog under control which is why we tried it.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

A halti is a harness that goes around the muzzle. It works miracles with pulling, cuz basically, when they pull, their heads turn, so they don't get to look at what is so interesting to them. Then have the double ended lead, so you have a bit more control with his normal harness.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

Nemesis027 said:


> there are collars with inside teeth...when the dog pulls they drive into the neck and pinch the skin. Try it...if that doesn't stop him the first or second time from pulling away from you then try something else. We used this once on a lurcher that would always try and pull himself free...never did it again and we have never needed to use it there after. But living on the forest it is a must to be able to keep your dog under control which is why we tried it.


that sounds a bit of a harsh one to me!



Amalthea said:


> A halti is a harness that goes around the muzzle. It works miracles with pulling, cuz basically, when they pull, their heads turn, so they don't get to look at what is so interesting to them. Then have the double ended lead, so you have a bit more control with his normal harness.


ah i think i know the sort you mean, will see if i can get one, the other option was to muzzle him when he is out in the forest, however that does stop him scaring them, its the behaviour i wish to sort out.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*How to use Gentle Leader & Halti Head collars*










The Halti Collar








The Gentle Leader Pulling on the lead is one of the few unpleasant experiences of bringing up a new puppy or dog. In recent years dog head collars have revolutionised our ability to help train good lead walking manners, as well as being a useful training aid to help keep your dog's attention. Although fairly straight forward to use, it is important that head collars are correctly fitted and that your dog be properly acclimatised to them: 
*How should the collar fit?*

Both the Gentle Leader and Halti collars should fit fairly snugly such that one finger can fit under the strap that fastens behind the ears. The nose strap should locate no closer than 15mm from your dog's eyes. On the Gentle Leader, the clip should tighten under the chin such that only one finger fits. 
*How do I acclimatise my dog to the collar?*


It will take a week or so to acclimatise your dog to a head collar. But these tips should help smooth the way:

Have some tasty treats at hand. Place the head collar over your hand such that it hangs around your wrist.
With the same hand, hold a treat with your fingers and offer it to your dog, but holding the treat such that they have to nibble at it. As your dog is nibbling the treat, simultaneously slide the collar over its face.
Now release the treat and while they are munching away, finish fitting the clasp. Give your dog another treat and praise them warmly.
At this point it is important to keep your dog distracted- either by you playing with him or letting your dog use its favourite toy. After 2-3 minutes remove the collar and play for a few more minutes.
Repeat this 3-4 times a day for the first week and only playing with your dog whilst they are wearing the head collar. As you progress, start to introduce a command word that your dog can start to associate with the collar being fitted. Don't use a lead until your have completed this stage.
Once your dog is able to wear the collar for 5 minutes without distraction (i.e. scratching or trying to remove it), attach his lead and continue playing with them for a few minutes. Repeat this until your dog is not distracted by the head collar or lead.
Once your dog is acclimatised, gradually build up the time your dog spends wearing the head collar and lead to the point you can take short walks.
*IMPORTANT: *

Remember, keep this a positive experience for your dog and don't try to achieve too much in one go.
Don't allow your dog to wear a head collar unsupervised. This will give them a chance to learn how to remove them.
Never tug your lead hard when your dog is wearing a head collar. This may cause them neck injuries.
For the same reason, never use retractable or very long leads as these may allow your dog pick up speed before the lead takes up.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Nemesis027 said:


> there are collars with inside teeth...when the dog pulls they drive into the neck and pinch the skin. Try it...if that doesn't stop him the first or second time from pulling away from you then try something else. We used this once on a lurcher that would always try and pull himself free...never did it again and we have never needed to use it there after. But living on the forest it is a must to be able to keep your dog under control which is why we tried it.


I would never put one of these on any animal, much less one I professed to love. Imagine if you were wearing it... I'm sure it more than "pinches the skin".


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

Mush said:


> for f*cks sake i came on here for bloomin advice on how to try and fix this problem and u lot being u lot have decided to turn it into something nasty yet again.
> 
> first of all as highlighted above he* IS *on a harness. I wouldnt walk him any other way
> 
> ...



You have GOT to be kidding me! Did you actually read my post without going off on one hollering obscenities at me? Thanks for the personal and abusive comments, that's really made my day. I don't come on here to get called an "a**hole" for no reason other than trying to help.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*DOUBLE-ENDED LEADS - *
Allows two points of contact (when used in conjunction with other equipment) making walking more pleasurable.








The leads currently available are made from Softex - a soft-feel material that is kind on the hands. The trigger hooks are two different sizes - a smaller one to attach to a head-halter (I'm very aware that some leads have a heavy clip &when this attached to a halter it can be quite uncomfortable for the dog), and a larger one to attach to the collar or harness.
The lead can also be used to attach to a single point and adjusts into a variety of lengths to allow you a greater degree of control or more freedom for your dog.
*NB :- *For heavier set dogs, I would recommend ordering the lead with two large trigger hooks which will be stronger & therefore more secure this is available in 3/4" or 1" widths. 




*A Double-Ended Lead may help with :* 

pulling on the lead
Lunging
Animals that escape from their harness or head halter
_"My favourite product is the *double-ended lead*. The fact that it is wider & kind of padded has been invaluable to me as a person with arthritis in my hands.
Thanks, Rachael, for all the good I've gotten out of your leash. Before I had it I hurt 4 of my fingers in a long-term way, 2 of which are permanently swollen. So you can imagine how I only use your leash & no other."_
S. Robinson U.S. 
_"My lead is fabulous, I work at a rescue centre so its very good for dogs who need a halti or harness or just basic lead training. It is already much used, so thank you for a brilliant product!" _
Lisa
*Softex®colours available
(matches collars)*


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> I would never put one of these on any animal, much less one I professed to love. Imagine if you were wearing it... I'm sure it more than "pinches the skin".


Put your heckles down It was used once and worked....live on the forest and around horses and your understand the need to be cruel to be kind.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Nemesis027 said:


> Put your heckles down It was used once and worked....live on the forest and around horses and your understand the need to be cruel to be kind.


 
My friend had 9 GSD and has always had horses not one of them bothers them at all and she never resorted to a pinch collar. I would imagine it was very painful for a lurcher as they have vey sensitive skin. I am glad it was only a one off


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Definitely think there are much kinder ways to deal with something like that than those horrid things. Like the halti. They are completely pain free and just teach the dog that if he/she pulls, they end up going a different way. There's no way I would put one of those torture devices on an animal I loved even once. But that's just me and MY beliefs... You can do what you like. Am only trying to show an alternative.


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> My friend had 9 GSD and has always had horses not one of them bothers them at all and she never resorted to a pinch collar. I would imagine it was very painful for a lurcher as they have vey sensitive skin. I am glad it was only a one off


Well that's good for her none of my other dogs has been any trouble around horses. This one was and needed to be controlled at all times. The collar obviously did hurt as after he became good as gold (more or less) on a lead. You can buy these things as a form as dog control so they can't be that bad can they.

Anyway...its not like it was one of those electric collars.


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Definitely think there are much kinder ways to deal with something like that than those horrid things. Like the halti. They are completely pain free and just teach the dog that if he/she pulls, they end up going a different way. *There's no way I would put one of those torture devices on an animal I loved even once*. But that's just me and MY beliefs... You can do what you like. Am only trying to show an alternative.


Well no...I wouldn't expect someone who uses the word puddy tats to. LMAO.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes, but if it only had to be used the once, it must have hurt pretty bad to leave the lasting effect. Surely that's proof enough that it's cruel. There are a lot of items on the market for animals that I'd consider cruel/dangerous... Something as "minor" as a spoked hamster wheel to the horrid electric collars (and all sorts in between). Just because they are available to buy, doesn't make them good.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Nemesis027 said:


> Well no...I wouldn't expect someone who uses the word puddy tats to. LMAO.


 
Aww bless... Gone to making fun of how I refer to my animals now? Just because I raise a valid point. Not once have I made fun of you in any way. I see my pets (the cats especially) as my kids and so what if I talk to them a bit stupidly. That's me and I'm not ashamed about it. :2thumb:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Mush said:


> for f*cks sake i came on here for bloomin advice on how to try and fix this problem and u lot being u lot have decided to turn it into something nasty yet again.
> 
> first of all as highlighted above he* IS *on a harness. I wouldnt walk him any other way
> 
> ...


 I find it very sad that you will not accept any responsibility. Your first post said that your large powerful dog 'attacked'the ponies, then you altered it to he only chased them . A harness allows a dog to putt much like a carthorse in a breast harness can pull. People have offered advice yto you aswell as attempting to tell you and others, why it is vitally important that you have full control over your dog which you obviously hadn't got on the day. What if it hadn't just chased the ponies? What if it had got loose and grabbed the throat of a young foal and refused to let go until it was dead. Would you have just got the dog and run away and still refused to admit liability? If it wasn't your fault the dog got loose, whos fault was it? Perhaps the horse's for being there? Or the trees for blocking your view? Or the horse owners for letting their animals roam freely?
By getting aggressive and abusing those who have attempted to offer advice to you, you are simply putting a picture in my mind of the sort of person I imagine to be the typical person who would want to own a staffie cross rottweiller which is hardly a calm obedient cross, specially in the wrong hands.
If people have posted horror stories about their own experiences with dogs and livestock, it's because such attacks are common by pet dogs who's owners refuse to anticipate that their pet could turn into a killer. Last years locally, someone's shetland pony was so badly bitten by 2 pet dogs which had got loose from the owner who was unable to control them, that it had to be shot. There were pictures of the horrific injuries, in the local paper. All it's legs were bitten, huge chunks of flesh missing from its backside and a hole in the belly. This was a little girl's pet pony and the attack was witnessed. The dog's owner eventually wrestled the dogs off the screaming bleeding pony, then ran off, shoved the dogs into a car and drovr away, leaving the pony screaming, kicking and bleeding on the ground.
Do you still not see why people have been so vociferous in their demands that you take urgent and immediate steps to get control of your dog?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I thought we all spoke to our animals in a special voice:gasp:


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

Nemesis027 said:


> Well that's good for her none of my other dogs has been any trouble around horses. This one was and needed to be controlled at all times. The collar obviously did hurt as after he became good as gold (more or less) on a lead. You can buy these things as a form as dog control so they can't be that bad can they.
> 
> Anyway...its not like it was one of those electric collars.


electric collar?

people have electric collars to electricute their dog???


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I find it very sad that you will not accept any responsibility. Your first post said that your large powerful dog 'attacked'the ponies, then you altered it to he only chased them . A harness allows a dog to putt much like a carthorse in a breast harness can pull. People have offered advice yto you aswell as attempting to tell you and others, why it is vitally important that you have full control over your dog which you obviously hadn't got on the day. What if it hadn't just chased the ponies? What if it had got loose and grabbed the throat of a young foal and refused to let go until it was dead. Would you have just got the dog and run away and still refused to admit liability? If it wasn't your fault the dog got loose, whos fault was it? Perhaps the horse's for being there? Or the trees for blocking your view? Or the horse owners for letting their animals roam freely?
> By getting aggressive and abusing those who have attempted to offer advice to you, you are simply putting a picture in my mind of the sort of person I imagine to be the typical person who would want to own a staffie cross rottweiller which is hardly a calm obedient cross, specially in the wrong hands.
> If people have posted horror stories about their own experiences with dogs and livestock, it's because such attacks are common by pet dogs who's owners refuse to anticipate that their pet could turn into a killer. Last years locally, someone's shetland pony was so badly bitten by 2 pet dogs which had got loose from the owner who was unable to control them, that it had to be shot. There were pictures of the horrific injuries, in the local paper. All it's legs were bitten, huge chunks of flesh missing from its backside and a hole in the belly. This was a little girl's pet pony and the attack was witnessed. The dog's owner eventually wrestled the dogs off the screaming bleeding pony, then ran off, shoved the dogs into a car and drovr away, leaving the pony screaming, kicking and bleeding on the ground.
> Do you still not see why people have been so vociferous in their demands that you take urgent and immediate steps to get control of your dog?



jog on will you, you have no purpose to this thread

at least people have the decency in this thready to help me by showing the options i have with controlling my dog.

you are just getting in the way and putting ur nose in places it doesnt belong


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Yes, but if it only had to be used the once, it must have hurt pretty bad to leave the lasting effect. Surely that's proof enough that it's cruel. There are a lot of items on the market for animals that I'd consider cruel/dangerous... Something as "minor" as a spoked hamster wheel to the horrid electric collars (and all sorts in between). Just because they are available to buy, doesn't make them good.


It was given to me by someone else...i didn't go shopping for one.

Your now starting to drift a little to close to the assumption that i don't care about the welfare of my animals. A few seconds of pain is far better than a life time or fatal injury.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Afraid so


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah... Electric collars tend to be used to keep a dog within a specific area that has an "invisible fence" (a wire buried, so when the dog crosses it, they get a shock)


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

oh and thankyou Shell195 for your constructive and helpfull posts.


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## Mush (Jan 20, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Yeah... Electric collars tend to be used to keep a dog within a specific area that has an "invisible fence" (a wire buried, so when the dog crosses it, they get a shock)


that sounds cruel to me! and not very fair either!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I find it very sad that you will not accept any responsibility. Your first post said that your large powerful dog 'attacked'the ponies, then you altered it to he only chased them . A harness allows a dog to putt much like a carthorse in a breast harness can pull. People have offered advice yto you aswell as attempting to tell you and others, why it is vitally important that you have full control over your dog which you obviously hadn't got on the day. What if it hadn't just chased the ponies? What if it had got loose and grabbed the throat of a young foal and refused to let go until it was dead. Would you have just got the dog and run away and still refused to admit liability? If it wasn't your fault the dog got loose, whos fault was it? Perhaps the horse's for being there? Or the trees for blocking your view? Or the horse owners for letting their animals roam freely?
> By getting aggressive and abusing those who have attempted to offer advice to you, you are simply putting a picture in my mind of the sort of person I imagine to be the typical person who would want to own a staffie cross rottweiller which is hardly a calm obedient cross, specially in the wrong hands.
> If people have posted horror stories about their own experiences with dogs and livestock, it's because such attacks are common by pet dogs who's owners refuse to anticipate that their pet could turn into a killer. Last years locally, someone's shetland pony was so badly bitten by 2 pet dogs which had got loose from the owner who was unable to control them, that it had to be shot. There were pictures of the horrific injuries, in the local paper. All it's legs were bitten, huge chunks of flesh missing from its backside and a hole in the belly. This was a little girl's pet pony and the attack was witnessed. The dog's owner eventually wrestled the dogs off the screaming bleeding pony, then ran off, shoved the dogs into a car and drovr away, leaving the pony screaming, kicking and bleeding on the ground.
> Do you still not see why people have been so vociferous in their demands that you take urgent and immediate steps to get control of your dog?


If I had been there I probably would have shot the dogs:whip: Poor pony


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Aww bless... Gone to making fun of how I refer to my animals now? Just because I raise a valid point. Not once have I made fun of you in any way. I see my pets (the cats especially) as my kids and so what if I talk to them a bit stupidly. That's me and I'm not ashamed about it. :2thumb:


No I'm not poking fun...i think its very cute and amusing...my misses calls the horses all sorts of weird names.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Nemesis027 said:


> It was given to me by someone else...i didn't go shopping for one.
> 
> Your now starting to drift a little to close to the assumption that i don't care about the welfare of my animals. A few seconds of pain is far better than a life time or fatal injury.


I'm not saying that at all (or intending to). Just saying that just because it's on the market, doesn't mean they aren't cruel. And that I, personally, wouldn't put my pet through " a few seconds of pain" when there are other methods out there to control your dog. To each his own.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*Electric Shock Collar Campaign*

21-Nov-07









*Please join the Kennel Club in calling upon the Government, Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly to introduce an outright ban on this barbaric method of training dogs.*
*Timeline of the Electric Shock Collar Campaign*
The Kennel Club has long been campaigning for electric shock training devices to be completely banned across the UK. Electric shock training devices train a dog to respond out of fear of further punishment, having received an electric shock when it does not perform what is asked of it, rather than from a natural willingness to obey. In order for the devices to serve effectively as a training tool, the dog has to perceive the shock as painful - moreover if the dog does not respond, the punishment has to escalate, creating further potential for abuse.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Nemesis027 said:


> there are collars with inside teeth...when the dog pulls they drive into the neck and pinch the skin. Try it...if that doesn't stop him the first or second time from pulling away from you then try something else. We used this once on a lurcher that would always try and pull himself free...never did it again and we have never needed to use it there after. But living on the forest it is a must to be able to keep your dog under control which is why we tried it.


Wow, some people still believe in 'brute force and ignorance and inflicting pain' as a method of training? I sort of thought that people were much more educated nowadays. Besides the fact that pinch collars are illegal in this country.
They are unnecessary and there are better tools available. 
OUt of interest. Do you kick and slap your dog too? If not , why not? Why is kicking or slapping any different to driving spikes into a dog's neck?
Personally if a person has to resort to pain, fear and violence to train their dog , they shouldn't own a dog as they are obviously too sadistic.


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## Nemesis027 (Jan 11, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Wow, some people still believe in 'brute force and ignorance and inflicting pain' as a method of training? I sort of thought that people were much more educated nowadays. Besides the fact that pinch collars are illegal in this country.
> They are unnecessary and there are better tools available.
> OUt of interest. Do you kick and slap your dog too? If not , why not? Why is kicking or slapping any different to driving spikes into a dog's neck?
> Personally if a person has to resort to pain, fear and violence to train their dog , they shouldn't own a dog as they are obviously too sadistic.


Oh don't you start....want an argument...want to put someone down...want to find fault with everybody....well go hassle someone else.

JOG ON


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

Hang on....fenwoman's not the only one who's objected to the pinch collars - why is she the one getting the grief about it?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Pam do you know they sell these openly on Ebay UK ? Ive just looked:devil: They must be painful as you can buy plastic caps to go over the prongs


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Nemesis027 said:


> Put your heckles down It was used once and worked....live on the forest and around horses and your understand the need to be cruel to be kind.


 There is absolutely no need to have any kind of cruelty involved when you are training your dog. Training should be done with kindness and clarity. Ensure the dog clearly understands what you want it to do or not do for a start.
I have 18 dogs in my home and I have never used so much as a choke or throttle chain on any of them. Nor do I punch, slap, kick, drive prongs into their necks etc. I can walk 65kg Ursa, +45kg Urian, and little 10kg Chalky, (that's 120kg combined, or 245 lbs, to my 8 1/2 stones)holding all 3 leads in one hand and not one of them would dream of pulling, tugging or anything else. If a lead or collar fell off, they would just stand still until I put it back on again.If I punched, kicked or stabbed them in the neck they would lose all trust in me and think I'd gone mad and was savaging them.


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## t-bo (Jan 26, 2005)

Locked at request of OP.


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