# bengal cat help



## temerist (Feb 1, 2009)

Im pretty sure you cant, but does anyone know if you can get a ginger bengal? Looking for a bengal and seen some "pure bengals" ginger for £95


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Not that I know of - don't think they'd be selling for £95 if you could get ginner ones.


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## temerist (Feb 1, 2009)

heres the ad http://birmingham.gumtree.com/birmingham/23/44903223.html


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

I doubt they are bengals either! I've just been looking on a proper bangal breeder's site and they suggest that if you are offered a bengal for £200 then it's going to be a very poor example of the breed.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I would be very suspicious of anyone selling a full bengal (or any pedigree kitten) for that price!

It doesn't look much like a bengal to me. Maybe they think any spotted kitten can be described as a Bengal! :lol2:

The Ginger gene is referred to as 'red' in cats and you can get red spotted bengals, but they don't look like 'normal' ginger cats!! This looks like a normal ginger spotted kitten to me - except, unless the colour isn't properly reflected in the photograph, it isn't even a red, it's a cream to me!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

that kitten is as pure a bengal as i am.

typical gumtree scammer tbh, i`m amazed they arnt "for adoption" etc

:devil:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

i think its just a normal ginger tom


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

I find it really hard to tell the difference between a tabby moggie and a striped Bengal. I think my cat (rescue moggie) looks like a Bengal. I keep looking at pictures of them and trying to established in my mind the characteristics but its just not happening.
My cat Mido is huge, carries his tail low, has a spotty belly, large feet, but he's just a moggie - all be it a very handsome one.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You can get spotted cats in loads of different breeds - Persians, British Short Hairs, Egyption Maus, Ocicats and Orientals and of course in non-pedigrees too, but that doesn't make them bengals.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

feorag said:


> You can get spotted cats in loads of different breeds - Persians, British Short Hairs, Egyption Maus, Ocicats and Orientals and of course in non-pedigrees too, but that doesn't make them bengals.


Cat breeds baffle me. My other cats litter sister is a siamese but mine is a black oriental. I've never understood how they are different breeds - Dog classification is so much easier to get yer head round. :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Bengals come in a few colours. Red or Sorrel as its called looks like the colours here Kingsmark Bengals & Serengeti Cats

For the price they are asking for those kittens they are not full Bengal as Sorrel is one of the rarer colours so would have a much bigger price tag


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## repti-mon (Aug 31, 2007)

Browns spotted/marble average about £300
Silver spotted/marble average about £500
Snow spotted/marble average about £500 
£95 would most probably not be a Bengal breed.

Here's where we got ours from and very well reccomend them too!!
www.*belladonnakatz*.co.uk

you can also get pure black Bengals, possibly called malamanistic or something....


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Evie said:


> Cat breeds baffle me. My other cats litter sister is a siamese but mine is a black oriental. I've never understood how they are different breeds - Dog classification is so much easier to get yer head round. :lol2:


As a dog owner for many years, I struggled with the concept of Siamese & Orientals and when the breeder of my first Somali told me that she'd mated her Oriental Spotted Tabby to a Seal Point siamese and got a Siamese and a Havana I couldn't understand how, because I thought they should be moggies!

However, technically Siamese and Orientals are the same breed, but the Orientals don't carry the himalayan gene which bleaches out the warm areas and they are classed purely by their colour. So they can be mated together and whatever colour the kitten is, that is the breed of cat, but this only refers to Siamese and Orientals, not any other breeds.

Other breeds have what is known as "permitted outcrosses" where a breeder can mate 2 pedigree cats together to broaden their gene pool, but the resulting kittens are registered as variants, not as the either of the breeds of the parents.

For instance, with my Somalis, the only breed I can mate to apart from Somalis is Abyssinians (because Somalis are just longhaired Abys), but I have to register them as Somali Variants so any resulting kittens don't end up being bred back to an Abyssinian, thereby bringing the longhaired gene into the Abyssinian breed! 

If I then put one of those variants (which would have short hair) back to a Somali, some kittens would be longhaired and some would be short haired. The short haired would be registered as variants and the longhaired would be registered as Somalis.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

a bengal has `glitter` if you see one in the fur you`ll see what it means

:lol2:

my pedigree britishshorthair girl is pure british, with only blue, cream and bluecream pure bsh in her lines, yet she`ll still throw out a semi longhair variant.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, but not all of them do have glitter. Some do, some don't.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

temerist said:


> Im pretty sure you cant, but does anyone know if you can get a ginger bengal? Looking for a bengal and seen some "pure bengals" ginger for £95


Maybe not at that price but a gnger bengal is pretty easy to make.

(Male)Ginger domestic X (Female)F1,F2,F3,F4'etc Bengal = Will result in Ginger begal.

I'd say ANY domestic cat color can be breed into Bengal easy.There already mini pathers bengals. 

Panther bengal.Looks like any other black cat till you see it in water.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

feorag said:


> As a dog owner for many years, I struggled with the concept of Siamese & Orientals and when the breeder of my first Somali told me that she'd mated her Oriental Spotted Tabby to a Seal Point siamese and got a Siamese and a Havana I couldn't understand how, because I thought they should be moggies!
> 
> However, technically Siamese and Orientals are the same breed, but the Orientals don't carry the himalayan gene which bleaches out the warm areas and they are classed purely by their colour. So they can be mated together and whatever colour the kitten is, that is the breed of cat, but this only refers to Siamese and Orientals, not any other breeds.
> 
> ...


Bless you for that explaination! 
I can see the undefinable quality of a really good Bengal, but when you see pictures of pet quality Bengals, it just completely bypasses me. I must go to a cat show and see them in the flesh. I went to one last year but I was paying attention to the Orientals and didn't really look at the Bengals.


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## repti-mon (Aug 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> Yes, but not all of them do have glitter. Some do, some don't.


Now you mention it ours do have a glitter about them sometimes, dont see it all the time but sometimes they look really sparkly......weird....


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

nope, cat genetics dont work like that.

ginger male cats offspring will be tortie females and random non ginger males.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

If you get a Bengal with good glittering, it's beautiful to see.

Just what I was going to say Piggly. 

Gazz, it isn't as simple as that, not with the red gene. You'd have to have a ginger female or a tortie female to get any red males or females.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

everyone thinks all my cream and red kittens are out of my red colourpoint stud boy,

it totally cabbages everyones head that he wont breed any, only tortie girls and seal and blue boys. 

and all the gingers are out of my tortie girlies

:lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Evie said:


> Bless you for that explaination! .


No probs - it's easy once it's been explained! :lol2: 

And by the way I bought that Havana cos I thought he was absolutely gorgeous! Lost him at 3 year old with cardiomyopathy and bought myself an Oriental Black! Siamese & Orientals are a breed apart imao!! :2thumb:

And yes, Piggly, the red gene is another thing that always needs an explanation too! :2thumb:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

feorag said:


> No probs - it's easy once it's been explained! :lol2:
> 
> Siamese & Orientals are a breed apart imao!! :2thumb:


Tell me about it! My one came to us a complete wreck - hiding, biting and hostile. He's now the most clingy cat I've ever known. Has a better recall than the dogs, pokes us with his front paws if he wants attention - he's fab. He's like a different cat, wants to sit on visitors knees and nibble them if they don't stroke him quite the way he likes. :lol2:


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## Rachel&gary (Aug 29, 2009)

Hi 

ive just read your message and i have 2 pure bengal cat at the moment and the only way you would get a ginger is if it get crossed with a normal domestic cat and a bengal really but ginger is uncommon in bengals really... but i looked at the picture and its a cross breed thats why its cheap... but its still a cute thing thou


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm loving all these cat pics.

Mick and I have come to the decision that we probably wont get another dog if/when (in the distant future) Blu passes on, and will probably get a pair of indoor cats instead.

But in the meantime I have to settle for pics, so please keep them coming!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Evie said:


> Tell me about it! My one came to us a complete wreck - hiding, biting and hostile. He's now the most clingy cat I've ever known. Has a better recall than the dogs, pokes us with his front paws if he wants attention - he's fab. He's like a different cat, wants to sit on visitors knees and nibble them if they don't stroke him quite the way he likes. :lol2:


We always say that they are dogs in cats clothing! :lol2:

I'm struggling at the minute cos I lost my Siamese last Friday and I've only got the Somalis left - the house is so quiet!!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

feorag said:


> We always say that they are dogs in cats clothing! :lol2:
> 
> I'm struggling at the minute cos I lost my Siamese last Friday and I've only got the Somalis left - the house is so quiet!!


So sorry for your loss, pets with big personalities (and voices) leave such a huge gap don't they.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

They sure do!


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## panther_87k (Feb 4, 2009)

looks like a normal ginger moggie to me! not even a hint of true bengal markings, and the stupid thing is some people will pay ridiculous prices for a cat advertised as "bengal" when its just a moggie


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> nope, cat genetics dont work like that.
> 
> ginger male cats offspring will be tortie females and random non ginger males.


(Male)Ginger Domestic X (Female)F1,Bengal = (Male)F2,Bengal,(Female)F2,Tortie bengal.

*Then.*

(Male)SBT,Bengal X (Female)F2,Tortie bengal = (Male)F3,Ginger Bengal,(Female)F3,Tortie Bengal. 

I beleave the above is right ?.So not that hard and you could use a f2 female instead of a f1 so you won't need a dwa to it.


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## jabbawockymark (Aug 2, 2009)

we have bengals and theres no such thing as a ginger bengal lol:2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Non-red male to tortie female will produce red *and *non-red boys and tortie *and* non-red girls, so knowing my luck I still wouldn't end up with gingers (even if I wanted a ginger Bengal, which I don't)


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

jabbawockymark said:


> we have bengals and theres no such thing as a ginger bengal lol:2thumb:





> Im pretty sure you cant, but does anyone know if you can get a ginger bengal?




Question wasn't if there was but if there can be and with a bit of breeding there can be.There maybe already out just not registered or how ever paper'etc go with cats.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Yes you can get ginger Bengals but they are called Sorrel and are one of the rarer colours

Have a look on here and it shows you photos Kingsmark Bengals & Serengeti Cats

This photo is taken from this website

Sorrel Bengal


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## jabbawockymark (Aug 2, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Yes you can get ginger Bengals but they are called Sorrel and are one of the rarer colours
> 
> Have a look on here and it shows you photos Kingsmark Bengals & Serengeti Cats
> 
> ...


 
sorrell bengals are classed as rusted bengals and there not ginger they are a very deep rust like coulor


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

jabbawockymark said:


> sorrell bengals are classed as rusted bengals and there not ginger they are a very deep rust like coulor


 
In the pedigree cat world ginger cats all have a posh name whether its sorrel,red,hot cream etc its all the same. That bengal pic looks ginger to me even if its called sorrel


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorrel is the colour of cinnamon (yellowish-brown) and ginger is red.

This is a sorrel Somali (which is called a red in America). Anyone would take this for a ginger cat, but that's because the Somali is a tabby cat and when you put sorrel onto a paler base coat, as in any tabby, it lightens the overall colour











But when you put those colours onto a solid cat, you can see a huge difference.

Oriental Red ............................................................................................ Oriental Cinnamon


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## jabbawockymark (Aug 2, 2009)

feorag said:


> Sorrel is the colour of cinnamon (yellowish-brown) and ginger is red.
> 
> This is a sorrel Somali (which is called a red in America). Anyone would take this for a ginger cat, but that's because the Somali is a tabby cat and when you put sorrel onto a paler base coat, as in any tabby, it lightens the overall colour
> 
> ...


lol hence the rusted colour and NOT ginger :lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

gazz said:


> (Male)Ginger Domestic X (Female)F1,Bengal = (Male)F2,Bengal,(Female)F2,Tortie bengal.
> 
> *Then.*
> 
> ...


 
not quite,

f1 bengal is asian leopard cat x moggie
f1 is offspring from above 
etc
think you`d need a dwa and very deep pockets to buy an f1, lol









young red and cream selfs have tiger markings when they are little like harvey the cream bsh here, they fade when they are bigger and they dont look like tabbies anymore.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> image young red and cream selfs have tiger markings when they are little like harvey the cream bsh here, *they* fade when they are bigger and they dont look like tabbies anymore.


Can I just change that word to *SOME* :lol2: because a lot of reds and creams keep some markings, on a lot they're more like ghost markings, but on some they stay quite defined. That photograph above of the red oriental is a red, not a red tabby.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

ok, they are supposed to fade, lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> ok, they are supposed to fade, lol


Yup!! :lol2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> not quite,
> 
> f1 bengal is asian leopard cat x moggie
> f1 is offspring from above
> ...


Yes i know that ALC and F1,Bengals are DWA.That what i was saying that you could use a F2,Bengal instead of a F1'Bengal then you won't need a DWA.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

sorry it must be the way i read your post, it sounds like a moggie x bengal was an F1


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

However, technically, to bring in any new colour you wouldn't need to use an F1 or an F2 you could use any Bengal cat, well down the line from the Asian Leopard.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve seen a melanistic bengal at a cat show, definatly different looking!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

So did that just look like a normal black cat then??

I ask because not all Bengals have a 'wild' face - to me most of them just look like a spotted cat of heavier British type, so does a melanistic just look a bit like a black BSH??


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