# Any Lizards that don't require Insects?



## mrblue2008 (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi, this is a daft question and I'm sure I know the answer but is their any smaller sized Lizard (Skink size) that doesn't eat insects? I do not want Crickets in the house..... 

thanks


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## HannahDJA (Aug 23, 2014)

*Welp*

Blue tongues don't need bugs. They can eat fruits and veggies and HIGH QUALITY wet dog/cat food. Just make sure their diet is varied with nutritional fruits and veggies and that the wet dog or cat food you get is of extremely high quality to keep them healthy.

Crested geckos don't need live food, nor do gargoyle geckos or other fruit eating rhacodactylus species. 

As far as I'm aware, most if not all captive kept uromastyx species' are vegetarians as well.

That's as far as my knowledge goes when it comes to species that don't get bigger than skinks. Tegu's and monitors can be fed raw meats, frozen rats/mice and veggies and fruits, and iguana's are completely vegetarians, as well, just so you know. :3


Also, if you're afraid of crickets getting lose in the house, most bug eating reptiles can live off of well fed and gut loaded worms, like meal worms, super worms, and king worms. I prefer them to crickets, to be honest, less smell and less noise, haha.


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Desert Iguanas also don't feed on insects.


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## mrblue2008 (Jan 27, 2009)

HannahDJA said:


> Blue tongues don't need bugs. They can eat fruits and veggies and HIGH QUALITY wet dog/cat food. Just make sure their diet is varied with nutritional fruits and veggies and that the wet dog or cat food you get is of extremely high quality to keep them healthy.
> 
> Crested geckos don't need live food, nor do gargoyle geckos or other fruit eating rhacodactylus species.
> 
> ...



This is great Info... thank you so much! 

My most wanted is a Blue Tongue Skink! love them but I was told these needed a diet of insects! so this is great news.... I am sure to get one of these and no need to look any further. thank you for all the info. I don't mind worms. 

I looked after a bearded dragon for a friend of mine and i swear I 2 weeks later I could still hear Crickets! 

thank you :2thumb:


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Uromastyx are veggies


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

mrblue2008 said:


> This is great Info... thank you so much!
> 
> My most wanted is a Blue Tongue Skink! love them but I was told these needed a diet of insects! so this is great news.... I am sure to get one of these and no need to look any further. thank you for all the info. I don't mind worms.
> 
> ...


Insects are a part of BTS diet admittedly it is more the worms and snails side but they do still have livefoods as far as i know


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## HannahDJA (Aug 23, 2014)

TEENY said:


> Insects are a part of BTS diet admittedly it is more the worms and snails side but they do still have livefoods as far as i know


I've never fed my blue tongues insects. Mine eat wet dog food, fruits and veggies, and the occasional thawed pinky. They also get eggs occasionally and chicken and beef. 

You can feed worms and snails, as they are more managable and probably less squeamish-worthy than crickets or roach worms, but in the grand scheme of things, no insects of any kinds is very doable with BTS's, as their diets are so varied.

Just my opinion. :3


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## Creed (Apr 2, 2014)

HannahDJA said:


> but in the grand scheme of things, no insects of any kinds is very doable with BTS's, as their diets are so varied.


 This isn't correct, insects as staple food is very doable and by all indications healthier then dog food based diets. With really large collections the additional labor might be an argument to feed dog food, but small collection do very well with insects as staple food.

Dog food is high energy food made for a medium sized carnivore, blue tongue skinks simply don't need that much energy in their diet. 

Insect based diets reflect the wild diet far better than 'dog food' base diets. It allows for a far greater diversity in the diet then cups of 'chicken' or 'turkey' dog food, provides enrichment, exercise and helps prevents obesity. Not to mention the ability to gut load the animals and the benefits of feeding whole prey items.

Dog food is fine to feed as a supplement, but insects, snails and slugs as staple food are far better suited. If crickets are the only insects you don't want to feed, an bluetongue would still be an option. Roaches and locust are my preferred prey items, crickets are a bit too small.


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## mrblue2008 (Jan 27, 2009)

Creed said:


> This isn't correct, insects as staple food is very doable and by all indications healthier then dog food based diets. With really large collections the additional labor might be an argument to feed dog food, but small collection do very well with insects as staple food.
> 
> Dog food is high energy food made for a medium sized carnivore, blue tongue skinks simply don't need that much energy in their diet.
> 
> ...


No I couldn't have roaches in the house, I don't mind mealworm or grubs... I don't even mind locust because their so easy to catch but I don't want roaches in the house.. no way lol


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

Dubia roaches aren't too bad, they can't breed at room temperature so you will never become infested, they are silent and like to hide! I hate crickets, but if you're ok with locusts they are better nutrition anyway, slower and less smelly


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## warrensark (Aug 23, 2012)

I have a BTS and despite starting him on Nature diet to begin with, decided that I would rather 'know' what he is eating. 

Hence, he has Dubai roaches and mealworms (bred by me here at home) locusts, snails (brought in from the garden, purged, frozen then thawed when required)

I make up a mix of cooked chicken, assorted steamed veg, calcium powder - freeze individual portions and take out when required and can add to bits of fruit, he's not too keen on fruit, would rather eat peas! I am currently in the process of obtaining some Dendra worms to provide another source/variety of food for him and the bosc.


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## Tiliqua (Dec 6, 2008)

It is absolutely fine to never feed insects to blue tongues. Also pink tongues or any of the Egernia skinks. Also, chicken and vegetables should be fed raw not cooked. Mark.


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## HannahDJA (Aug 23, 2014)

Creed said:


> This isn't correct, insects as staple food is very doable and by all indications healthier then dog food based diets. With really large collections the additional labor might be an argument to feed dog food, but small collection do very well with insects as staple food.
> 
> Dog food is high energy food made for a medium sized carnivore, blue tongue skinks simply don't need that much energy in their diet.
> 
> ...



I've never had any health problems by using wet dog food as a staple, and having it supplemented with chicken, beef, fruits and veggies. But I agree that having a diet with worms, roaches, and snails/slugs in it is a little better than having a diet without them.

I'm simply saying that if bugs are hard to find, or not an option for feed, wet dog food used as a staple protein source and supplemented with other nutritious sources of food is an option. :/

EDIT: I'd also like to make not that I'm not trying to start a fight. I've noticed when it comes to blue tongues diets and lighting requirements, almost everybody has their own opinion. UVB vs no UVB. Dog food vs cat food. Insects vs no insects. Everybody finds their own way with their blue tongues in those regards. I found a way that works for me, and you found a way that works for you. As long as the animal is healthy and active, then we've both succeeded in our care.


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## Creed (Apr 2, 2014)

Opinions are fine to have, so long as you have proper arguments to support them. I think most arguments that can be made leans in favor of using UVB and feeding insects. I love to be proved wrong though. 

I know it's easy to say: "Well that's just your opinion". But I think that's a bit too easy. We all want to push our hobby forward and provide the best care possible. Discussion where everyone explains their opinions (based on facts) are a great way to do this. We can all learn from each other right?

I know that several good breeders (like Tiliqua) use dog food and that's absolutely fine, but I feel the benefits of feeding live can't be ignored. In any case I've already explained the benefits of feeding live, could someone provide arguments for the use of dog food? I'm especially curious what the effects of the extra supplemented minerals, high protein and added products like grain are.


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## Liamwilko (May 20, 2014)

I agree in Parts with both creed and tiliqua. I use dog food as a staple (not cat food due to the taurine) because it is readily accepted and eaten well even mixed with greens which are otherwise ignored by my BTS. I do offer a mixture of insects locust, roaches, mealworms, morios and have had little to no response at all to them. This is something, when I've spoken to other BTS keepers, we seem to share amongst our animals.
I still offer them on occasion but mine seems to choose the dog food over the live and she is perfectly healthy. 
In essence I suppose what I'm getting at is give your BTS the choice to have what it wants and give it the most varied diet possible.


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

I think mountains are being made out of mole hills on this one.

If you don't want crickets or roaches in the house for a BTS it's not a problem. You can give them a well balanced diet without these. As it happens older BTS are a bit, lets just say slower, & almost don't bother chasing faster moving crickets anyway. If you're happy to feed locust & morio worms etc then it really isn't an issue not to feed crickets or roaches.

Good luck


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Greg mentioned Desert Iguanas - these are a hugely under rated species 

No livefood, no meat required.











As for blue tongue skinks - there is a great diet chart here which shows how you can get a nutritionally balanced diet and get protein without using livefood.

http://bluetongueskinks.net/foodchart.html


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## NINJATURTLETOM (Sep 1, 2009)

Just a quick question for the BTS owners, would you be able to feed it snails and slugs from the garden? I know it's not advised to catch wild crickets etc due to the risk of pesticide contamination does that apply also to slugs/snails?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

NINJATURTLETOM said:


> Just a quick question for the BTS owners, would you be able to feed it snails and slugs from the garden? I know it's not advised to catch wild crickets etc due to the risk of pesticide contamination does that apply also to slugs/snails?


Quite risky in the UK - snail and slug killer is one of the most common arsenals to the British gardener. If you do take them from the garden you should keep them and feed them for a week or so. If after a week the snails/slugs are thriving, it's unlikely they've ingested any serious poisons. They could still have ingested fertilisers or non-lethal chemicals which over time, can build up in a reptile and cause problems.

A very easy solution for the snail problem is to get a few adult african land snails. They are cheap, very easy to feed and breed very easily. 

You can also buy "canned snails" that are prekilled and keep for a long time in cans.


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

NINJATURTLETOM said:


> Just a quick question for the BTS owners, would you be able to feed it snails and slugs from the garden? I know it's not advised to catch wild crickets etc due to the risk of pesticide contamination does that apply also to slugs/snails?


 Adding to what Athravan has said above I do collect snails/slugs from a piece of land I know is not subject to nasty's being spread but feeding them for a couple of days to clear their system is a good idea. I struggled to get ALS to breed but what I did find quite handy were the trays of Apple snails you can get from most Chinese supermarkets, relatively cheap, frozen & only part cooked, quite good for chopping up & mixing with fresh (or frozen harvested in summer for winter) juicy snail.


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## Iaintanz (Sep 30, 2014)

Personally I prefer locusts as they are slower and therefore easier for my Beardies to catch, as Beardies do get less active as they get older. Also, I have read that they are more nutritous provided properly gutfed. All our lizards (except the Gargoyle) have mealworms too, and the occasional wax worms as a treat.


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## JRB 89 (Aug 5, 2013)

HannahDJA said:


> Crested geckos don't need live food, nor do gargoyle geckos or other fruit eating rhacodactylus species.


tell that to my gargoyle. if you leave a tub of live food anywhere near its viv it head butts the glass repeatedly trying to get at it. if you move anything like a lead near the viv it head butts the glass again. chuck a locust in the viv and sometimes it doesn't even touch the floor, it has actually learned to catch!

some say certain geckos don't NEED live food but i think that has something to do with convenience for the keeper that doesn't want to keep livefood in the house. if offered, they will eat it, what does that tell you?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

JRB 89 said:


> some say certain geckos don't NEED live food but i think that has something to do with convenience for the keeper that doesn't want to keep livefood in the house. *if offered, they will eat it, what does that tell you?*


Well this isn't about geckos but just because a reptile will eat livefood doesn't mean it should - both desert and green iguanas will readily eat all livefood, to the point where it can cause serious and permanent organ damage. Many iguanas on the incorrect diet will have liver & kidney failure. They will happily eat all the live insects even though it can kill them long-term.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

And just to reinforce the above, I've got iguanas in my care suffering from renal issues from feeding insects, admittedly you could also argue its a hydration thing, but in my expierience I seriously would have to say that isn't always the case. 

Its not just a nutritional issue for me with they can eat a fruit only diet or a vegetarian one, In theory many omnivore species can have tere nutritional requirements met with the correct diets and planning.
Even bearded dragons. 

My issue with it is, you have to take into consideration the mental health of the animal too, encourage normal patterns f behavir, get them to hunt and excercise rather than graze, while I've never done it I can see it working but I think its a sad situation to deprive any animal of its natural hunting behaviour.

Just my opinion on that though.


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## Iaintanz (Sep 30, 2014)

JRB 89 said:


> tell that to my gargoyle. if you leave a tub of live food anywhere near its viv it head butts the glass repeatedly trying to get at it. if you move anything like a lead near the viv it head butts the glass again. chuck a locust in the viv and sometimes it doesn't even touch the floor, it has actually learned to catch!
> 
> some say certain geckos don't NEED live food but i think that has something to do with convenience for the keeper that doesn't want to keep livefood in the house. if offered, they will eat it, what does that tell you?


Oh we offer our gargoyle live food but he is very young and only wants his repashi, I have no doubt that will change as he (or she, too young to tell yet) grows lol


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