# Need Some Legal Help



## RiSE (Feb 12, 2014)

Hello everyone,

Most of you will of already read and probably not understood my business proposal, which I hold my hands up and say was my fault, but I'm slightly confused and need your insights.

The trust and my borough have said that if I intend to sell to the public, whether I have bred them or not that I have to have a ASL and public liability insurance.

Many people yesterday and today have pointed out to me that it is not a requirement if you are selling what you have bred. Someone on Facebook said its APA are giving incorrect information to councils.

Can anyone shed any light on this please?

Thanks


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

For a basic insight to Public Liability Insurance please see here

I assume you mean A Pet Shop License, for Kent county Council you will need to look here 

Ben


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## RiSE (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks Ben but I'm confused to if I need a ASL. Everyone else has said I don't need one if I am selling animals I have bred myself, is this true?

Everyone else's boroughs call it a pet shop licence but mine calls in a pet animals licence. Is this the because of the effect of the APA? Or are my council just greedy lying bastards?

Thanks Jason


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Are you a registered business?


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

SiUK said:


> Are you a registered business?


Would he actually need to be a registered business?
surely not if he's selling offspring from pets he already has.
I was sure you only needed licenses ect if you owned a shop and was making money out of it.
as a seller of babies which are produced from his own collection, he can clearly state he aint making money from it. because the money he makes from selling babies is what gets spent on the frogs food and enclosure's. surely?


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## RiSE (Feb 12, 2014)

SiUK said:


> Are you a registered business?


Yes sole trader....but business is not trading yet.
Also does it matter if I'm trading at home or on a premises?


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

also, if you need a license to sell frogs that your breeders produce, does that also mean everyone needs a licence at these frog shows everyone goes to?
because none of them have licences.
i can almost 100% guarantee you DONT need a licence to sell baby frogs in the uk.


http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/generallicences.aspx


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Heart4Darts said:


> i can almost 100% guarantee you DONT need a licence to sell baby frogs in the uk.


You do if you want to set up a pet shop to sell them like the OP does. A breeder selling off surplus livestock is a hell of a lot different to somebody selling them as a business from a shop.....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

RiSE said:


> Yes sole trader....but business is not trading yet.
> Also does it matter if I'm trading at home or on a premises?


 I can see where the confusion has arisen. Private hobbyists selling a few animals they have sold themselves do not need a pet shop license.

If you are a business, which you clearly are, you need a pet shop license and public liability insurance whether you have bred the animals, or have bought wholesale to sell on.

There have been a number of hobbyists shows that APA have tried to disrupt in recent years. Private breeders (hobbyists) are legally allowed to sell animals at these events. APA have always argued that some selling at these shows are businesses (Breeding to make profit) and have convinced some councils to stop these events on that basis. Last year the owner of AC snakes who had been selling at these shows ran into problems with Doncaster council. He accepted a caution, which is an admission of guilt. This whole saga is well documented on this forum if you look through the relevant threads.

So, if you are a business you do need a PSL. It might be worth your while contacting Chris Newman (A member on here) who is the chairman of the FBH (Federation of British Herpetologists) for further information as he was indirectly involved with this. 

Be under no illusions though, sole trader or registered LTD company, if you are dealing in animals to make a profit you do need the license and insurance despite what others have told you.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

I should have added, legally if you are trading you have 90 days to register with HMRC. If you have not done so already I'd highly recommend you find a local small business accountant and take advice from them in regards to this. Not a pet related forum!!!

You'll often find that the initial consultation is free when discussing a business idea with them. 

Good luck with the new endeavour.


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## phelsumaman (Aug 14, 2008)

RiSE said:


> Thanks Ben but I'm confused to if I need a ASL. Everyone else has said I don't need one if I am selling animals I have bred myself, is this true?
> 
> Everyone else's boroughs call it a pet shop licence but mine calls in a pet animals licence. Is this the because of the effect of the APA? Or are my council just greedy lying bastards?
> 
> ...


I have never heard of an ASL so cant comment on whether you need on or not? Best to speak to your local citizens advice they will know who to contact


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Mynki said:


> I can see where the confusion has arisen. Private hobbyists selling a few animals they have sold themselves do not need a pet shop license.
> 
> If you are a business, which you clearly are, you need a pet shop license and public liability insurance whether you have bred the animals, or have bought wholesale to sell
> 
> Be under no illusions though, sole trader or registered LTD company, if you are dealing in animals to make a profit you do need the license and insurance despite what others have told you.


I had this conversation with my local trading standards and a member of the councils legal team. They agreed that I did not need a pet shop licence to sell animals I had bred myself through my business, I chose to get a pet shop licence as I was planning to sell animals from other breeders. Any business needs insurance.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

ianxxx said:


> I had this conversation with my local trading standards and a member of the councils legal team. They agreed that I did not need a pet shop licence to sell animals I had bred myself through my business, I chose to get a pet shop licence as I was planning to sell animals from other breeders. Any business needs insurance.


 Interesting, as my local authority told me you do if you are selling them as a business. They did say it was different if you were just a hobbyist and not profiteering. The license relates to the premises also, not the individual. 

Can you advise what law states that a business needs insurance? You need public liability if the public is visiting your premises, but not all businesses operate like this. Those selling mail order etc who don't have visitors do not it, though it might be very foolish not to get stock insured etc. 

I strongly recommend the OP talks to Mr Newman for professional advise!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

This is what I brought to their attention :-

https://www.gov.uk/pet-shop-licence

And was advised that this was relevant to dog breeders etc breeding at home as an example, but who were not a real business. 

Is the OP planning on only selling animals he has bred?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Nobody really knows what he's planning, Prince Charles told him to keep stum


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## RiSE (Feb 12, 2014)

What if I was to trade at a home address and only have people come by appointment? I am planning on selling animals I have bred myself but what business plan doesn't evolve as you arrive at different hurdles?

And sorry I ment a A.E.L not A.S.L


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