# Reporting a zoo.



## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

Hello im looking into reporting a zoo local to me.
Its a small family run business and has been closed down before due to animals being kept badly.

I went and had another look around today and was shocked at the state of some of the animals on display.

Firstly i went in and saw 4 boscs kept in approx 10ft x 5ft vivarium. A fair size as the Boscs themselves were around 2 foot each. They had a large water pool with very little water which was full of shit. There was a basking spot with an unguarded bulb which could be reached if the animals attempted to jump at it. The Bosc's themselves were in rather poor condition all had shed stuck around them and one i recall had a burn on its nose.

Secondly i walked over to the Beardie display tank. This vivarium was around 8ft x 4ft and had 4 visable dragons inside. I was shocked when i saw a Chinese water dragon in with them. They were kept on orchid bark and had a pool of sand at the other end of the vivarium. The vivarium itself had 1 basking spot and a larg cat litter tray for the animals to drink/bathe in. The Beardies themselves all looked battered, one missing around half of its tail (yes possibly from losing when being young).

Next i moved around and looked at the Spur theighed torts. They were in a considerably large enclosure around 12ft long to estimate. The torts themselves had a considerably different size range. They ranged from around 10 inches to 20 inches. I was horiffied when i saw that there was a green iguana living amongst them in the branches. The iguana looked in good health and had plenty of room to climb around and had a platform with a uv tube above it ( around 6 foot from the ground so this would not be beneficial to the tort's in any way. )

Next i moved around and saw an albino burmese python in a large vivarium on its own. Reading its description i saw that " it had a feeding problem so as temperarily in this housing and would be put back onto the main display when it was ok ) baring in mind this vivarium it was in was still on display. The burmese itself was covered in mites! These were very easy to spot as they stand out on snakes of this colour.

Next i saw the Rhino Iguana. The iguana looked in good health but did not have much room to climb. The vivarium was a good size for the animal but only had 2 platforms for the animal to climb on. It simply laid their in the corner covered in shed.

I went into the 'reptile room'. As i first went into the room their was a yellow anaconda. The anaconda was around 11 foot and was in good condition. The vivarium had adiquite space and a large water pool with very little water inside and once again full of shit.

The main display vivarium of the 'zoo' was the burmese tank. This vivarium was very large around 12foot to estimate. Inside were 3 normal phase Burmese and 1 boa. The vivarium was covered in snake skin and shit from the snakes. the burmese varied in size from roughly 8 foot to 13 foot. The boa was around 6 foot.

The next exhibit that caught my eye was the spider's. All of the 4 tarantula's they had were kept on bark chippings ( beach coloured ). These spiders did not at all look in very good condition. With all of them being new world species, ( brachypelma smithi, brachypelma albopilosum and grammostola rosea x 2 ) all par the rosea had almost bald abdomens. one of the rosea was also labled as a hybrid birdeating spider which it was obviously not.

I turned my attention to another display. The royal python and carpet python enclosures. Both of these enclosures had exposed heatmatts ontop of the bark chipping substrate. 

Another display which shocked me was a small bearded dragon kept in roughly a 15inch x 12 inch all glass tank with only a uv bulb ontop of a piece of glass! in a tank this size even if heated properly the animal will not be able to regulate its temperature.

Finally i looked up at the ceiling of the reptile room. PARTS OF IT WERE MISSING AND FALLING IN! 

I want to report this zoo asap for the well being of the exotics there! could anyone give me an idea of the correct channels to take to ensure they are delt with properly? 

Thanks.
Graz.


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## R0NST3R (Nov 28, 2007)

As I said the other day mate, these guys are finding it hard. It is the only thing local for people to actually go see exotic animals. Instead of reporting them, why not offer support? One day a week (when you aint at college) would help them loads.

I am tomorrow going to speak to my advisor and see if I can have my placement moved to there. I know there is only like 10 weeks left, but them 10 weeks could help get the place on track.


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## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

R0NST3R said:


> As I said the other day mate, these guys are finding it hard. It is the only thing local for people to actually go see exotic animals. Instead of reporting them, why not offer support? One day a week (when you aint at college) would help them loads.
> 
> I am tomorrow going to speak to my advisor and see if I can have my placement moved to there. I know there is only like 10 weeks left, but them 10 weeks could help get the place on track.


the fact he ran down some protestors in his car a few months back put me off a little


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## R0NST3R (Nov 28, 2007)

Graz said:


> the fact he ran down some protestors in his car a few months back put me off a little


they was there to try shut the place down, not to offer advice ;D


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

To be fair, even if they are finding it hard it doesn't excuse having exposed heatmats or T's on the wrong substrate.


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## Squirrel (Oct 23, 2007)

Oh dear, another point to consider is


Graz said:


> Another display which shocked me was a small bearded dragon kept in roughly a 15inch x 12 inch all glass tank with only a uv bulb ontop of a piece of glass! in a tank this size even if heated properly the animal will not be able to regulate its temperature.
> quote]
> 
> The UVB won't pass through the glass!
> ...


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## Squirrel (Oct 23, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> To be fair, even if they are finding it hard it doesn't excuse having exposed heatmats or T's on the wrong substrate.


Agreed, I am trying to be positive, but if I went there i'd probably kick off :whistling2:


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## bakeri666 (Mar 16, 2009)

always nicer to be constructive rather than destructive... help them get it right - sounds like it could be a useful place for people to learn about exotic animals if done correctly, they just need showing what 'correctly' is


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## bakeri666 (Mar 16, 2009)

Squirrel said:


> Agreed, I am trying to be positive, but if I went there i'd probably kick off :whistling2:


yeah you would... but untill you open your zoo better to let them know these pearls of wisdom- end of the day if they get closed down they will only try again and damage more animals health, far better to educate them and make sure all future animals owned by them ae cared for right... long term not short term blah blah


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## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

I have just emailed the zoo offering my assistance, now time to wait.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Just a few ideas to consider;



Graz said:


> Hello im looking into reporting a zoo local to me.
> Its a small family run business and has been closed down before due to animals being kept badly.
> 
> I went and had another look around today and was shocked at the state of some of the animals on display.
> ...


To me, it sounds like really the main problems centre around poor levels of maintenance. With any luck the guys working there are working flat out and doing their very best, but unfortunately they simply don't have the time or the pairs of hands to achieve basic standards.

This is of course all optimism 

I think volunteering would definitely be the most proactive and successful route to helping this situation 
Lotte***


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## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

"personally have never used lamp guards in enclosures with clawed lizards species. All you are providing these animals with is a ladder to get closer to danger! I can tell you, in my experience no lizards I've ever worked with have ever "attempted to jump at" lamps...

Are you certain the shed skin was "stuck" boscs don't often shed in one clean piece and have more of a patchwork look."

You would be suprised with the amount of lizards i have seen that have burned themselves from reaching unprotected lamps. As i said one of them did have a burn on its nose. The shed was stuck in many different pieces all over the lizards.

"Doesn't sound like my textbook impression of how things should be done, but without proof that the animals are actually being damaged or suffering in this situation, husbandry will always cause disagreements..."

Maybe not but keeping different Species of animals together is one thing... when they are from an entirely different continent its another.

"I see no problems with the tortoises, they have a large enclosure and differing sizes really aren't a problem when the animals have enough space to avoid sitting on each other.
Again, the iguana is going to eat relatively similar food and occupy a different area of the enclosure, the only issue I can see is the tortoises eating the iguana poo (which I'm sure they'd love to!)"

The only problem i have with the tortoises is that they are of quiet different sizes. The iguana would also not spend all of its time on the top of the enclosure.

"Do you think it mean't it was in seperate housing to allow it to be individually monitored rather than the main reason being to take it off display? (which it clearly wasn't, misunderstanding of the signage perhaps?)
Are you certain you were seeing mites? if the animal was on barkchip it could easily get flecks of dirt on it that might look like mites at a distance.
Perhaps they had said it had a "feeding issue" as it sounds a little less frightening to the average zoo visitor?"

I was not missunderstanding the signage. Why would you display a snake they claimed was ill at a zoo? The snake did have mites. Little black dots walking around a yellow snake stand out a bit. They were 100% mites.

"This one is my favourite. The Rhinoceros iguana did not have any climbing facilities as they are a terrestrial species which are incredibly poor at climbing!"

Maybe i have lacked researching into various different species of Iguanid's but still the animal had no where to hide and mealy a small cat litter tray to drink from/ bathe in.

i have emailed the zoo offering my help free of charge when i am available. Hopefully they will see the point i am trying to get across and agree to let me help.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Wasn't supporting the zoo (As I have no idea who they are and have certainly never been there) nor was I disputing that there are clearly serious issues 

Just giving my take on what you've said and pointing out the ones that I think are really not a big issues. This is speaking as someone who has worked in trade and zoological collections for 10 years 

Just my two penneth.

P.S: Rhino igs don't particularly hide either... or drink from waterbowls... or bathe...

They like to sit out all day lonnnnng 









*Yes that is a leaf hat...*


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> *Yes that is a leaf hat...*


And very fetching it looks too. Nice to see the animals putting some effort into their appearance before photo time : victory:.


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## Scarlet_Rain (Jan 16, 2009)

*There is a place near me with similar conditions...Thing is although you are saying to go and help them out, surely they should know that boas should not be kept with pythons, beardys wont get UVB through glass, mites will stop a snake from feeding etc...even novice reptile keepers have done this simple research?

Its quite appalling but I do agree to speak to them before you report to anyone else.*


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Try and offer help but sadly many of these places do need to be shut down. If they can not afford the upkeep of the building and animal related equipment they will get a poor rep as a crap hole and less people will go. The result even less money and the animals suffer further.
Reminds me of a place in kent known for its "resuces" and its beavers, biggest hell hole ive ever seen and despite very polite offers of help from me and many others they remain rude and crap....


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Saedcantas said:


> Just a few ideas to consider;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well once again the caped crusader known only as Jersey Girl comes to the rescue with a thought out response wiping out yet more evil .
Death to L the evil one yes that L for lack of first hand knowledge and posting on emotions not practical experience.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Graz said:


> You would be suprised with the amount of lizards i have seen that have burned themselves from reaching unprotected lamps. As i said one of them did have a burn on its nose. The shed was stuck in many different pieces all over the lizards.
> 
> Which species have you seen? For all of the lizard species you have mentioned, I still wouldn't recommend using a bulb guard.
> 
> ...


I hope they do give you an opportunity but in the meantime, remember to consider things from every angle before finding yourself outraged and with a huge list of perhaps sometimes unreasonable or unrealistic complaints


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## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

Cant be bothered quoteing everything but thought i'd stick my 2p in aswell..lol

I never use bulb guards for most clawed lizards either, and to be honest i dont personally know any experienced keepers that do, as has already been said, tends to cause more problems than it solves, the guards get hot aswell, not to mention one rescue i had in that had to have its leg amputated from getting it stuck in a bulb guard which resulted in 2 breaks, nasty cuts, and a badly burned foot.

torts and iguanas together is very common in the zoo world im afraid and personally i cant see anythign wrong with it, i have seen myself that it works. whats the problem with keeping different size torts together? again its normal practice in the zoo world, i dont think ive been to a single zoo where they havn't done this? 

Rhino iggys dont really climb, they just sit out in the open watching you waiting for you to get close enough that they can tail whip you in the shin (which hurts like hell)

yeh, there are a lot of problems you mentioned aswell, but most of which just point to them being understaffed / overworked. sad truth of it is they are probably struggling to stay afloat, a lot of small zoos are at the moment, and even more unfortunatley most of these small zoos have the larger zoos cast offs, you can bet if that zoo were to close its doors the vast majority of the animals would be pts (unfortunatley like what not long ago happened at another similar small zoo in england)

Owen


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## dragonsRus (Jun 1, 2008)

There is a shop near me that is similar.

There was a royal with a dead mouse in its enclosure, but the mouse had wierd little bugs all over it

There was Corn snakes in the same enclosure as a huge BOA !

all the enclosures were discustingly full of sh*t and green water.

i feel sorry for these animals


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