# DWAL initial questions on species and applications



## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

Ok so ive posted a thread about this on another forum but said forum doesnt get alot of traffic so Id like to talk about it on this one instead.

Ive started contacting the local authorities in my area (Hampshire) about looking into getting a DWAL to keep Gila Monsters and an Albino Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. the Rattlesnake will be a pet and the Gilas I may breed purely on a hobby level

Ive found that exotics direct sell the insurance!! £13 a month! 

Im also lucky enough to know Ian Stephen, the Curator of London Zoos Reptile House, I helped him out with some racks he got stitched up by the last FreedomBreeder guy and he has offered to help me out with the handling of the animals I have chosen and also agreed to inspect the enclosures and write a letter to my authorities with his opinion on my DWAL situation and application. The agent I am speaking to has said this will help my application no end.

Im not looking to sort this application out anytime soon, I know these things take alot of time to sort out and also most importantly I have to learn to know the species im dealing with inside out before I can own one!! the habitat it relatively easy to setup, as with any animal, IF you do your research etc

I plan to have display tanks setup in my Ball Python room, which will be locked and I will only have access to!!

Id like to know what you experienced keepers think about my species choice?

Thanks

Chris


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## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

not a massive amount of traffic in this section eh :whistling2:


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

chrisgard said:


> not a massive amount of traffic in this section eh :whistling2:


Can you make your question a little clearer, as I'm not sure what it is you're asking.


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## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

chrisgard said:


> Id like to know what you experienced keepers think about my species choice?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris


also anything else anyone with experience could add to help out


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

'What do you think of them' is a very open question. Ask specific questions and you'll get more replies.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

If you have researched the animal, can care for it adequately, are competent enough to keep it safely - then good animal choice : victory:


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## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

now i know why i dont bother asking people questions on RFUK , thanks for nothing both of you


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## gmccurdie (Jun 1, 2012)

chrisgard said:


> now i know why i dont bother asking people questions on RFUK , thanks for nothing both of you


In years to come, when you have gained your experience with your chosen animals, please hesitate remember this moment and don't make the same mistake.

Beware the dark side!


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## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

exactly, I havnt posted here in ages, now i know why!!!


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

They haven't said anything wrong. Stop taking everything so personally, they just want you to be specific with your questions.

If you work with that species and you feel comfortable handling that species, and you're capable of caring for it husbandry wise (which is straight forward for an atrox). Then you have nothing to worry about. 

It doesn't matter what your first hot is, just depends on your capabilities. Only you can answer that question.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Haha whats he pissing his knickers over.

How does he want us to answer his question. "Id like to know what you experienced keepers think about my species choice?"


There is primarily going to be two different answers for this. "Good choice/Nice species" or "Bad choice/Crap species". 

I don't know what he was expecting, us too choose the species he's going to keep for him?


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Spuddy said:


> Haha whats he pissing his knickers over.
> 
> How does he want us to answer his question. "Id like to know what you experienced keepers think about my species choice?"
> 
> ...


Thank you. I thought I was going daft, by not answering a question he' asked twice, in the exact same words.

To the OP. People want to help you, but they need to know what you want help/advice/comments/opinions on. If what you want is an opinion on your choice of animals, then thats fine. WDB's are great, but I'm not keen on the lizard - Yes, thats a pointless answer, but the way the question is phrased isn't specific enough.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

chrisgard said:


> now i know why i dont bother asking people questions on RFUK , thanks for nothing both of you


I thought I politely answered the only question you asked.... ? 


Good luck in this community with that attitude m'dear...


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## gmccurdie (Jun 1, 2012)

chrisgard said:


> Ok so ive posted a thread about this on another forum but said forum doesnt get alot of traffic so Id like to talk about it on this one instead.
> 
> Ive started contacting the local authorities in my area (Hampshire) about looking into getting a DWAL to keep Gila Monsters and an Albino Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. the Rattlesnake will be a pet and the Gilas I may breed purely on a hobby level
> 
> ...


Ok so you don't like the question at the end.

In my opinion this could have been a good thread showing how someone responsibly went about obtaining their DWAL.

I am sure lots of people would have liked to follow "Chris" as he updated us on his progress.

Can we recover this theme (If Chris will let us) and rephrase the question.

Anyone with a Diamond Back Rattlesnake _Crotalus atrox _care to comment on the challenges involved with keeping one?

Anyone who keeps Gila Monsters _heloderma suspectum or heloderma suspectum cinctum_ care to comment on the challenges involved with keeping one and what they think of breeding them for someone new to venomous (though in this case not new to breeding, would anyone care to elaborate on any additional challenges)?


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

gmccurdie said:


> Ok so you don't like the question at the end.
> 
> In my opinion this could have been a good thread showing how someone responsibly went about obtaining their DWAL.
> 
> ...


 
very well put!
i know it is clear that most of the experienced hots keepers on the forums are sick of people asking pointless questions and i fully agree, however if all new interested parties are disregarded the hobby could well fade away and the masses of knowledge gained by trial and error and hard work could be lost.
please do not dismiss all potential keepers as timewasters just because they phrase things questionably.
:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

personally I think a WDB is a bad choice 
it would seem that because they are cheap and easily available they make first choice for some people.
in fact they are very large,nervous and extremely dangerous they eat like pigs and defecate accordingly and as for temperament I've met many that prefer to strike before rattling which in itself speaks volumes about the animals disposition
a bite will cost you and our dear NHS immensely.

but most of all I feel If this question really needs to be asked then surely you're not ready for venomous. 

It's never been easier to find out all you need to know about these animals so why ask such
inane questions, no one can tell you what species is right for you all they can tell you is what is known about their husbandry and general disposition if this is in fact your question
then yes WDB are relatively easy to maintain and often thrive in captivity hence their 
availability. if your question is really should I be nervous of keeping WDB's? then absolutely -yes and may be you should think long and hard about that before doing so.




regards.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

gmccurdie said:


> Ok so you don't like the question at the end.
> 
> In my opinion this could have been a good thread showing how someone responsibly went about obtaining their DWAL.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'll give it a go.

If it's a WDB you're interested in, then yes, its a good choice. They're very easy to maintain (husbandry wise), but as Tim has stated, they get big, and are very dangerous. A bite from one of them will be very painful, and if you're unlucky, it may well kill you.

WDB's are known for being aggressive, but like all snakes, that depends on the individual. I've got 4 of them, and each one is different. 

2 are young, measuring around 40cm. Both rattle a lot, but are relatively easy to work with. They stay on the hook well, and only one of them stikes. The other is more of a bluffer, and calms down as soon as you move it. 

The sub adult is psychotic, and wants me dead. Getting him to ride the hook is very difficult, as he is constantly rattling, stiking, and doing what he can to escape the hook. If he gets the chance, I have no doubt that he will bite, and I'm pretty sure that it will be a wet bite, with lots of venom injected. Out of all my hots, he is by far the most difficult to work with

The big male I have is the total oposite. I've never heard him rattle, he's never struck, and at feedinng time, he takes the rats like a tame dog would a treat - he doesn't strike at it, he just takes it calmly off the tongs. He is by far the easiest hot to work with (out of my collection). Dispite this, he is just as dangerous (even more, due to his size) as the others. He may be placid, but I've only had him for a couple of months, and that could easily change.

My advice would be to read everything you can about the species. If there is anything you need knoww, then ask again, but with clear questions.

I cannot comment on the lizards, as I've never come into contact with them.

Hope this helps.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Hello mate,

If I were you I would stick to what you know and try not to mix your species to start?

If you want to get into DWA keep snakes or lizards not both.

Maybe keep your Atrox for a year then introduce a Gila or vice versa?

No matter what people tell you, the only person that knows that you are ready to keep DWA is you and hopefully the responsible seller of the animals.

There are so many people in this hobby that will jump on you in the slightest instance. I understand and so do they as they were at this point once also.

This is my answer to your questions.

I have 3 Atrox. My Adult female is over 5 kilos and is easy to hook and tail. But still she is treated with the upmost respect as are all my hots.

I am also interested in Gila's and am really considering keeping them.

But good luck with your plan and :welcome:to the clicky world of hots!!

Regards

Alex.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I find younger atrox are a nightmare. And adults seem pretty easy, well at least the ones i work with are. So in summary, everyone so far has completely different experiences with this species. I do however enjoy working with them. And as has been said.... From a purely husbandry perspective they are easy and eat like fat girls.

Good luck in your application, i hope it all works out for you.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Moshpitviper said:


> I find younger atrox are a nightmare. And adults seem pretty easy, well at least the ones i work with are. So in summary, everyone so far has completely different experiences with this species. I do however enjoy working with them. And as has been said.... From a purely husbandry perspective they are easy and eat like fat girls.
> 
> Good luck in your application, i hope it all works out for you.


 
Who posted this for you???? it was @ 09:12??? :gasp:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

chrisgard said:


> the Rattlesnake will be a pet and the Gilas I may breed purely on a hobby level


I am afraid that this particular section may get you negative replies.

A Rattlesnake is never a pet and Gilas are more of a commitment that just a breeding option.

Getting spikey will also result in less than enthusiastic replies.

Although atrox are relatively easy husbandry wise they are extremely dangerous and there are far more suitable species to keep if you are inexperienced.

Dont take it to heart when people are offering advice.


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

Believe me when I say that Gila monsters aren't as easy to keep as many would like to think. To begin with, if you decide to house more than one monster together you may find that during feeding either one, both or all (depending how many you house together) display an extremely aggressive feeding response which is great until one finishes before the other or others. You may have to separate animals, are you comfortable wth handling Gilas? Although 8 out of 10 times they are faily docile, you can get the odd grumpy monster. I have had one of my nicest Gilas turn back on me with its gob wide open wanting more than just a kiss. 

Cleaning their enclosure is also a hands on basic husbandry requirement, and yes these animals can be messy sh:censor:ers, more than once a week! They need fresh water on a daily basis considering they can spend time in their bowls, are you comfortable removing them from their bowls or cages to tend to their basic husbandry needs baring in mind that a bite can lead to a medical emergency? If you were to get bitten, would you have the first clue on how to remove the animal as swiftly as possible so as to avoid a long envenomation? A 10-20 second bite by an adult Gila would be enough to make you wish you were hung, strung and quartered in stead of bitten. 

Many think that just because these reptiles are lizards they are not as deadly as venomous snakes. Since there is no antivenom available for this species one should bare in mind that a seriously bad bite could lead to a world of hurt. 

I would advice that you read up as much as you can on this species and perhaps get some hands on mentoring from others in the UK prior to acquiring any. 

Having said all this, I personally love this species and find them a pleasure to work with. 

Good luck.


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