# Timon Lepidus - Eyed Lizard



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi all, does anyone keep these? Can you recommend some good care sheets? When my new rep room is ready in a couple of months I am considering keeping these stunning lizards and (hopefully) breeding them. Are there ever any CB ones available or are they all WC. Many, many thanks for any replies.


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## Breadrun (Mar 1, 2007)

enjoy http://www.terrariummorbidum.se/image/pdffiles/Caresheet%20for%20Timon%20lepidus.pdf


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

Sorry i can't help but if you found any Naultinus elegans on your travels i'll have 1 lol, wouldn't you rather have these anyway lol.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

ginnerone said:


> Sorry i can't help but if you found any Naultinus elegans on your travels i'll have 1 lol, wouldn't you rather have these anyway lol.


Trouble is I am just going to be SOOOOO spoilt for choice - like a kid in a sweet shop. But I want to make the right decisions so I'm doing my research now. I would like very much to be able to breed something that is often WC and hopefully become fairly expert - like you with your Tokays. I do have some restrictions as far as temps / humidity and various other factors. I will have a look at these now :2thumb:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Breadrun said:


> enjoy http://www.terrariummorbidum.se/image/pdffiles/Caresheet for Timon lepidus.pdf


Thank you Breadrun. Will have a butchers now.


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

jools said:


> Hi all, does anyone keep these? Can you recommend some good care sheets? When my new rep room is ready in a couple of months I am considering keeping these stunning lizards and (hopefully) breeding them. Are there ever any CB ones available or are they all WC. Many, many thanks for any replies.


I think it is extremely rare to find w/c ones offered for sale. Two wholesalers are offering Timon pater (c/b) to shops and I would highly recommend them to you as a very closely related species if you can't get hold of lepidus. One of the wholesalers is incorrectly selling them as lepidus despite me pointing out they are not that species. So it is possible some shops may be selling lepidus that are really pater. I know because i sold them to them in the first place !

I am not sure if Chris Davis has any left see www.captivebredlizards.co.uk 

One of my Timon pater males below (not the best looking)


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you so much. What a stunning lizard. I am not in a position to buy for at least a couple of months - just wanting to do my research first. Do they need hibernating if I want to try to breed them?


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## Blaptica (Jun 26, 2008)

*pater*

Yes they need to be hibernated if you want to breed either species. Timon pater are from North Africa which might make you think they are not used to the cold. My adults and young are hibernated outdoors here where we get more frosts than my friend on the south coast of England.

One difference is that young pater go bright green when only a couple of months old where as lepidus stay olive/brown usually for around 6 months or more. I find the adult pater also greener than lepidus too. 

There care is identical as far as I can see.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

ginnerone said:


> Sorry i can't help but if you found any Naultinus elegans on your travels i'll have 1 lol, wouldn't you rather have these anyway lol.


Ha! Good luck with that


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Ha! Good luck with that


 LOL, tell me about it,


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## reptilemad123 (Nov 15, 2011)

Sorry to bump and old thread but does anyone have any pictures of there viv set ups for these and pater.


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## reptilemad123 (Nov 15, 2011)

Sorry another bump but is bark okay for a substrate for either of these lizards


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Absolutely as you can keep it sprayed. I use bark in one area and top soil from the garden centre in another. Anything else you want to know while I am on here?


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## reptilemad123 (Nov 15, 2011)

jeweled lady said:


> Absolutely as you can keep it sprayed. I use bark in one area and top soil from the garden centre in another. Anything else you want to know while I am on here?


loads have you got any pictures of your viv set ups you could send me.

I was told i need a large water bowl for the viv but not sure how big?


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

There are a few pics on my albums. I use cypress mulch / soil for substrate and a water dish about 6" diameter and 1.5" deep.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Dont use bark or mulch,gravel or sand are best .Otherwise they will develop respiratory problems.


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## reptilemad123 (Nov 15, 2011)

Great pictures Jools for my petar does the waterdish have to be deep or do they only drink from it.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

reptilemad123 said:


> Great pictures Jools for my petar does the waterdish have to be deep or do they only drink from it.


Sorry I don't keep Pater. But my lepidus only drink from their water bowl. I have never seen them soaking in it.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

reptilemad123 said:


> loads have you got any pictures of your viv set ups you could send me.
> 
> I was told i need a large water bowl for the viv but not sure how big?


Perhaps you would like to post me with all your questions, I must get to bed now.


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## reptilemad123 (Nov 15, 2011)

jeweled lady said:


> Perhaps you would like to post me with all your questions, I must get to bed now.


Great thanks do you mind if i PM you over the weekend


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

colinm said:


> Dont use bark or mulch,gravel or sand are best .*Otherwise they will develop respiratory problems*.


Not necessarily. I keep mine on cypress mulch/soil but they are kept relatively dry (although they do have a large moist hide that they can use if they feel they need to). I mist them very lightly in the morning to replicate early morning dew. Perhaps a little more so when they are shedding. But the substrate is not damp. I have also massively increased the ventilation in the vivs by cutting out almost a third of the cool side end and replacing it with mesh. In my experience it is high humidity in the air of the viv, rather than dampness of the substrate, that can lead to respiratory infections. I have found that they like to burrow and I feel that my substrate enables them to do that. However, mine are only in their inside vivs during spring and autumn. In summer (unless it is particularly bad) they are outside, and in the depths of winter they are hibernating.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Sorry I dont agree.Over the years I have kept lots of Lacertids and I have found that there are problems when you keep them on wood based substrates, usually respiratory.
The ones that I keep inside are kept on either sharp sand or pea gravel.these are easy to clean and dont hold the moisture,although it is often good to have a damp patch of sand.The ones that I keep outside I keep on sharp sand mainly.If you look at their natural habitat most species(certainly the ones from southern Europe) are found on rocky or sandy areas.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

colinm said:


> Sorry I dont agree.Over the years I have kept lots of Lacertids and I have found that there are problems when you keep them on wood based substrates, usually respiratory.
> The ones that I keep inside are kept on either sharp sand or pea gravel.these are easy to clean and dont hold the moisture,although it is often good to have a damp patch of sand.The ones that I keep outside I keep on sharp sand mainly.If you look at their natural habitat most species(certainly the ones from southern Europe) are found on rocky or sandy areas.


You obviously have far more experience with this species than me and I am always willing to learn from other keepers :2thumb:

The vivs are empty ATM, so when I bring the Eyeds out of hibernation I shall take on board what you have said and try a sandy mix. I'm not sure about pea gravel though - my Eyeds are so greedy they lunge at anything that moves - I would be worried about impaction TBH.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I have been keeping these animals for a long time but that doesn`t make me an expert by any means and I am willing to learn too..

The other thing with sand or gravel is that its better for their claws.Hopefully they shouldn`t grow too long but I guess that yours will not anyway with them being out in the garden .Natural sunlight definately is the way to go,much better than any ultraviolet bulb.Their colours are much better,the greens often turn from a bluey green in captivity to an emerald green outside.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Well, spring is on the way. One of my female Lepida has been up and sunning itself over a couple of days. Anybody elses up yet?


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Mine are up - but that is my doing. I hibernate mine in RUBs in an unheated shed and in spring bring them into their vivs. They go outside during the sunny, summer months. Cheating a bit I know - but living on top of a mountain (our mean temps are at least 3C lower than sea level and we are quite northerly) I am too scared to risk outdoors all year round. They were brought out of hibernation a couple of weeks ago and are all looking great. The two pairs have both been mating ( one male has had a hemipenal prolapse today - vet fortunately was able to pop them back in - so no more nooky for him for the time being!)


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I am surprised that shes out already,its only 10c at most here in the day.i hope that my Lacertids stay down a bit longer to be honest.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

jeweled lady said:


> Well, spring is on the way. One of my female Lepida has been up and sunning itself over a couple of days. Anybody elses up yet?


Not yet - but the first decent day today and I have been at work!

I'm crossing everything that they pop up soon....


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Yep, she's out again today for a brief period. I got an unexpected surprise as well. One of my Bilineata which I had not seen since last summer appreared. I thought I had lost it (got out or died) so a magnificent bonus. I have taken it indoors and under a lamp, had a good soak and looking good but rather skinny.

The sun is very low but was quite warm in sheltered areas like outdoor vivaria.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

jeweled lady said:


> Yep, she's out again today for a brief period. I got an unexpected surprise as well. *One of my Bilineata which I had not seen since last summer appreared. I thought I had lost it (got out or died) so a magnificent bonus.* I have taken it indoors and under a lamp, had a good soak and looking good but rather skinny.
> 
> The sun is very low but was quite warm in sheltered areas like outdoor vivaria.


That must have been such a thrill for you - I can imagine how I would feel.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Yep, the the Green is coming around slowly. It will be even better to see it eating, I am sure that will come.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Hmm,
Some good some possibly not so good news.

I popped home at around 1pm today as we had temps of around 16c here, I checked the enclosures and saw movement, but only in one enclosure. Surprisingly it was the male Timon Pater, after watching for a while I saw another bit of movement and that was his lady. So both Pater are 'ok'. They were actually darting about looking for food, one chased after a spider but seemed to miss it.

On the flip side in the second enclosure, no signs whatsoever of the Timon Lepidus. My worry is that the underground chamber may have been washed out somehow, as I'd have expected those guys out at least as quickly as the pater, if not before.

Anyway I'll continue I monitor but temps are due to drop a little again over the next few days, but we'll see. Fingers crossed for the Lepidus now!


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Still very early. Strange as it may seem, the female that was up has not been today. It has been extremely hot here and I measured 35c plus at the lizard enclosure. I think it was just too hot and they know to keep at a lowere temperature till later on.

Re your Pater, were they hibernating outside? I cannot believe they would be chasing food to eat. It will probably be end April or May before they will eat, otherwise it would kill them if they went back under.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Is it wise to let the temperatures reach such high numbers this early in the year?


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## Mick.Ire (Nov 21, 2011)

Hey can you believe I saw a eyed lizard in the wild in northern spain. It was fabulous and since then I have always had a facination with them. It was chasing a green lizard across the road, hunting?? Territorial?? Anyway we jumped out of the car and got a nice close up view. I have pics somewhere. I'll try and dig them out. It was fabulous even with a new grown tail. 
What are they like as pets, can you tame them? They would make a fabulous exhibit.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

colinm said:


> Is it wise to let the temperatures reach such high numbers this early in the year?


Not sure what you mean Colin? It has been very hot today, exceptionally in the South East. How would you be able to stop it?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Mick.Ire said:


> Hey can you believe I saw a eyed lizard in the wild in northern spain. It was fabulous and since then I have always had a facination with them. It was chasing a green lizard across the road, hunting?? Territorial?? Anyway we jumped out of the car and got a nice close up view. I have pics somewhere. I'll try and dig them out. It was fabulous even with a new grown tail.
> What are they like as pets, can you tame them? They would make a fabulous exhibit.


They are a protected species out there and can no longer be kept as pets. However, I do breed them very successfully here in UK and we don't need CITES for them at the moment. They make excellent pets especially the males which are very handsome but they do much better living outdoors, where most of mine are in an outdoor vivaria 10ftx10ft.


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## Mick.Ire (Nov 21, 2011)

jeweled lady said:


> They are a protected species out there and can no longer be kept as pets. However, I do breed them very successfully here in UK and we don't need CITES for them at the moment. They make excellent pets especially the males which are very handsome but they do much better living outdoors, where most of mine are in an outdoor vivaria 10ftx10ft.


Facinating, the one we saw must have been male, gorgeous and big. I don't think I'd be able to locate one in Ireland and personaly I hate the thought of keeping a WC animal although I know this is how the hobby started it's just a personal thing with me now. 

Sad to hear they're cites, they must be struggling out there. Your very privilaged to keep them.


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## Mick.Ire (Nov 21, 2011)

Come to think of it, it could have been a female he was chasing. She was the size of a adult green lizard but did seem a bit bulkier. Didn't get a pic of her though, just him. This would make more sense. 
Are they egg layers of live bearers?


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Mick.Ire said:


> Come to think of it, it could have been a female he was chasing. She was the size of a adult green lizard but did seem a bit bulkier. Didn't get a pic of her though, just him. This would make more sense.
> Are they egg layers of live bearers?


Egg layers up to 25 in a clutch.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Mick.Ire said:


> Hey can you believe I saw a eyed lizard in the wild in northern spain. It was fabulous and since then I have always had a facination with them. It was chasing a green lizard across the road, hunting?? Territorial?? Anyway we jumped out of the car and got a nice close up view. I have pics somewhere. I'll try and dig them out. It was fabulous even with a new grown tail.
> What are they like as pets, can you tame them? They would make a fabulous exhibit.


That must have been wonderful to see one (two?) in the wild.

They are fantastic lizards to keep and I can't understand why they are not more popular. If they are kept in an inside viv then the males can often become very tame - the females less so. Many ppl choose to keep them outdoors where, if provided with the right conditions, they can do very well - but will be more wild and not really tameable pets.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

jeweled lady said:


> Not sure what you mean Colin? It has been very hot today, exceptionally in the South East. How would you be able to stop it?


By ventilating the vivarium.My outside vivaria are glass sided and mesh topped but they have not reached anywhere near 35c in the last couple of days.Personally I would be worried about the jump in temperatures from freezing last week to 35c this week.In my opinion its better to let the temperatures rise gradually.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

One of my Green Lizards is out today,even though the temps are not too high.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

colinm said:


> By ventilating the vivarium.My outside vivaria are glass sided and mesh topped but they have not reached anywhere near 35c in the last couple of days.Personally I would be worried about the jump in temperatures from freezing last week to 35c this week.In my opinion its better to let the temperatures rise gradually.


They are not in a small glass vivarium. The 35c was basking area and quite exceptional. It's a 10'x10' outdoor enclosure open to the elements! Eyed lizards need a lot of room because they are big lizards and mine have their own space and hibernate deep underground about four foot down!:lol2:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Come on, let's hear some more about peoples Eyed's....Jools?


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I think I am going to set up a social group (on RFUK here) for Timon - would be good don't you think? I'm rather tired out and tied up ATM but I will do it soon.

My two pairs of adults (who are indoors ATM and were brought out of hibernation during the warm spell we had about 3 weeks ago) have been going at it like rabbits. Unfortunately one of the males got a double hemipenal prolapse - looked truely gross - poor fella. Sugar bath didn't work so it was a 70 mile round trip to the herp vet. She popped them back in very easily as I had kept him moist. She then raved about him - what a magnificent animal - so long since she had seen one - in wonderful condition - could she take him home - etc. The vet showed me how to replace them if it ever happened again, as she said I knew what I was doing (?????) - but I don't think I ever would, I would be too scared of hurting him. He is now in a viv by himself and having daily squirts of meds into his bits. He will stay by himself for the rest of the year so I shall have to sort out another outdoor enclosure for the summer. His lady is looking gravid now so he was obviously successful in his efforts.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

That's odd I have never had my Eyed's constantly at it. In fact it just seems to be the one time. Usually the females keep out the way. Good job you got you male sorted though, you don't really want him doing that often.

Last year I got one of my pairs out early in February and of course they laid early, they then stopped eating early, July in fact, the time the eggs would hatch, so watch out that getting them out early doesn't cause yours problems. I aim to leave them longer this year, otherwise they have such a long period without food.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Quick update from up here.

Nipped home at lunch as it was around 15C here today. no signs of the pater that were up last time, however I did spot one of the two lepidus !

So at least that indicates that the underground hibernaculum has not been washed out (assuming they used it - suspect they did as they were in and out of it all last summer). So 3 out of 4 timon have 'survived the winter' outside. 

Just want to see the 4th emerge, then hope that they last until the real temperatures arrive and they can start to take on some food.....


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

I guess that made your day. It's great to know they survive. Pater as well, wintering out, that's an acheivement surely? As I previously said, don't expect them to start feeding till May. If they are still nice and fat they will be fine.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Big Red One said:


> Quick update from up here.
> 
> Nipped home at lunch as it was around 15C here today. no signs of the pater that were up last time, however I did spot one of the two lepidus !
> 
> ...


Mark, that is FANTASTIC news. I know you must be really made up - I am too!

I still have a trio of juvies from last year so if the worst has happened to the other Lepidus you know where to come :2thumb:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

jeweled lady said:


> Last year I got one of my pairs out early in February and of course they laid early, they then *stopped eating early*, July in fact, the time the eggs would hatch, so watch out that getting them out early doesn't cause yours problems. I aim to leave them longer this year, otherwise they have such a long period without food.


I didn't have a problem with that last year, but mine are only outside during the warmest summer months. It is something I will watch for tho.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

jeweled lady said:


> I guess that made your day. It's great to know they survive. Pater as well, wintering out, that's an acheivement surely? As I previously said, don't expect them to start feeding till May. If they are still nice and fat they will be fine.


Yeah, not expecting to see them much until it gets properly warmed up, just nice to see they survived the frost and rains ! Hopefully they will keep low and quiet and their reserves will see them through.



jools said:


> Mark, that is FANTASTIC news. I know you must be really made up - I am too!
> 
> I still have a trio of juvies from last year so if the worst has happened to the other Lepidus you know where to come :2thumb:


Yeah, very pleased, if I see the 4th I'll be even happier ! :2thumb:

Hopefully I won't need your reserve plan, but sure will give you a shout if it turns out I do....... Getting excited to watch these guys have a full summer (hopefully!)


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