# mangrove questions??



## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

hi everyone i know that everybody knows that mangrove snakes have a reputation for being bad feeders but my little sulawesi mangrove has been feeding with a lot of enthusiasm on every feed but i have a couple of questions regarding their feeding i'm taking a trip down to my local reptile shop tomorrow so i will ask them as well so here is my questions 

1) she's been sort of refusing her pinkies last couple of feeds a was feeding 3 pinky mice as instructed by my local reptile shop and on her last 2 feeds she's only eaten 1 pinky showed all the signs for feeding fast tongue flicking, 's' postures etc but know strike and i did the same things i have been doing with her for the last month??

2) as seen above do you think her feeding habits have changed due to well she's getting bored with pikies or that she was/is coming in for shed (her eyes cleared up last nite).

so any help will be grateful thanks (and i already knew about there tendency to be difficult feeders) thanks again!!

also could it be anything to do with a bite she gave me last saturday nite when i was attempting to feed her 2nd pinky.

sorry for the long message!!


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

venpmking said:


> hi everyone i know that everybody knows that mangrove snakes have a reputation for being bad feeders but my little sulawesi mangrove has been feeding with a lot of enthusiasm on every feed but i have a couple of questions regarding their feeding i'm taking a trip down to my local reptile shop tomorrow so i will ask them as well so here is my questions
> 
> 1) she's been sort of refusing her pinkies last couple of feeds a was feeding 3 pinky mice as instructed by my local reptile shop and on her last 2 feeds she's only eaten 1 pinky showed all the signs for feeding fast tongue flicking, 's' postures etc but know strike and i did the same things i have been doing with her for the last month??
> 
> ...


Speak to stark on here


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

is that his full forum name??


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

Here he is what he don't know ain't worth knowing 

Reptile Forums - View Profile: stark


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

thanks message him now!!


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Leave her a week to shed and get over any stress she may be feeling and start feeding again as usual.
Most likely because she was in shed.. the fact that she still ate something when in shedding mode is a good sign nothing is really wrong.
Let us know if she doesnt get back to normal after shedding and de stressing :thumb:

Tom


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

thanks mate just got a bit worried about her as i said she has fed incredibly well!! so i take it i'll keep her on 3 pinkys then....when i do move her up will it be 4 pinkys or a fluffy mouse??


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

venpmking said:


> thanks mate just got a bit worried about her as i said she has fed incredibly well!! so i take it i'll keep her on 3 pinkys then....when i do move her up will it be 4 pinkys or a fluffy mouse??


Personally I would vary the amount week by week. When she is big enough to take larger, increase the size and vary the numbers accordingly.

Tom


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

thanks for the advise so for example 1 week say 2 pinkies 2nd week 3 etc..


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

venpmking said:


> thanks for the advise so for example 1 week say 2 pinkies 2nd week 3 etc..


Yes, like that.

Tom


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

thanks :2thumb: so when would you put her on fluffs then?? any time soon or not


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

right then i tempted fate lastnite with feeding and she took all 3 pinkies no problem....i was following the advice stark but she was going all through the signs of being hungry sitting in her hide with her head poking out constantly roaming and striking at anything that moved passed her rub :gasp:....and not the problem even with the longer feeding tongs she still seems more interested in having a pop at me is their anything i can do to change her ways or just wait it out?


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Firstly - get a couple of photos up on the forum - on this your thread so that we can see what we are dealing with. Secondly - I've had Boiga come on and off food at various times and sooner or later they just bounce back to being as greedy as other sized 'bins' - pardon the expression. Also - post a pick of the enclosure - okay don't be put off if the enclosure now is small etc - we all understand that sometimes an enclosure is just a temporary enclosure etc. I had a pair in a viv that was just 2ft x l.5ft x 1.5ft for ages - but then they moved into a much bigger one with a tonne of luxuries etc. 

Do keep a feeding record - I will try find a couple of mine to show you how a couple of mine went on for the first year etc. DO handle as often as possible. I free handle - as youngsters the bite isn't too bad - again it's like velcro - MY OPINION ONLY! ( Don't need no telling folks - so cut loose !!) 

Found that both would go bonkers if they were left out on a plant etc out of the viv - seemed as if their new freedom was just what they wanted. I would sit for long periods at the front of the vivs too and place a slow hand up against the glass etc. Don't know if this works as both turned pretty nasty - and when they huff up they seriously double in size. I know what this was due to though - it was a sudden move from their old vivs into a new one - and this commenced at night too - the period when they are most active. Female took 5 mins to get from A to B whilst the male took about 35minutes. Gee he was just so huffed. I gave it a good few days before even looking into their new viv - even then the male struck at the glass repeatedly. What thanks hey!!.

Attaining over 5ft - I advice hooking them out when the viv temp is cooler. When I know I am going to handle them for the afternoon I advice switching the heating source off and letting their metabolisms slow a while. Don't worry it's not going to drastically affect them - but the hooking out should be a tad easier. I had two in one viv so the trick here is to find where both are and then try and work the hook on one - or simply let it glide out of the viv into the control area and then hook from there. Admittedly I do wear a good thick pair of leather gloves when the first stage of the operation is at hand. I then allow 5 - 10 minutes handling before removing the gloves. Often I just chill on the couch watching a nice wildlife documentary on youtube etc. Often the snake will settle down and rest in a tuck of my lap or arm etc.


You will be surprised at the size of prey they can consume although I always felt more comfortable feeding a size down. Once they hit rat weaner and rat pups they really bulked up. Boiga are more Aves ( bird) orientated though as research proves their venom acts quicker upon birds than small mammals etc. A varied diet should include quail chicks and any lizard you may chance upon. Picture below taken last year of Boiga that were 1.5 years old and around the 4ft mark - still not half grown and nowhere near the chunkyness they attain.

Check out Sulawesi weather patterns, climate reports current time and also over a detailed period of year to year = plenty of info out there. Personally I have seen a few set-ups too that are just plain bad - ie too sterile for any Boiga - so my advice would be to introduce either natural plants ( expect some to get trashed though) or alternatively use artificial plastic plants, flowers, vines etc. ( more pics will follow once you follow up your thread).

I would like to empasise that these are captive bred stock and not LTC or WC - Wild Caught. In my opinion this does make a little difference in their inherant attitudes.











... yes my chin is resting upon its dorsal - we had a good hug session... :whistling2:


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks for all the info. At the moment my phone's not working..well i did drop it down a flight of stairs. :whistling2: So my set up for her is well 'basic' i'm open to advice and any *positive * criticism towards me regarding her rub.

It's just a hide with moss (regularly sprayed with bottled water), Water bowl and substrate. She'll be moving into a good size viv sometime this year, But ideally as soon as i can. The manager of my local reptile shop does a brilliant job with custom viv's very well planted with perches etc.

I keep record for all my snakes what they ate and how many plus the rodents weight, Shedding dates ie when their eyes clouded over and finished shedding, When they pooped and passed uric acid and there overall weight after a poop.

Ever since i bought her home i've free handled her from day 1, And i never had a problem she always puts up a nice 'show' before she even thinks about biting me (thats my personal view), But i've always got a hook to hand *just* incase she gets a little to feisty. But as far as handling goes she's as good as gold, She'll just glide through my hands and over my arms but as a general rule i will never have her to close to my face, Like i do with my little royals and my bci.

And just one last thing not sure if other mangrove owners would agree with me, But i don't think mangroves are as bad as some people portray them to be like. I may be wrong after all she is my first boiga...and i can tell you she will not be my last.


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Sounds good - what neck of the woods you in btw? I think Strak asked why I gave mine up - well as the recent news depicts in Somerset I was having no luck with finances and insurance etc and when it came to the crunch I was loosing far more than what was coming in etc. A very good mate of mine helped me out and that's where I stand at the moment. I pop over now and again and I get updated etc.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

Sorry to hear that mate. I'm in Havant, Hampshire. So everything i'm doing with my sulawesi is all good? Looking into getting some dendrophila if i can!! One species of snake i have lusted over for a good 10+ years!!


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Freshly CB are completely different to freshly WC and healthy CB can be very different to healthy WC.
I prefer not to trust any of them.. but they do not deserve the reputations (plural as there are many misunderstandings and false truths out there) they are often branded with.

Tom


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Nice thing about melonata is that they have individual patterning like tigers, giraffe etc so, potentially one is able to identify individual members in a population :










This is a bit different though:

























...sorry to bore everyone with a white bellied tree snake though. I'll be on my way...


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Nice tanahjampeana.

Tom


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

I prefer the melonata and I really like the cyanea much much better. I think I saw an add at Crystal Palace Reptiles advertising the white spotted Boiga drapiezii and Boiga nigriceps etc. The nigriceps showed a photo of cyanea though and 24hours after I checked they were not there etc. don't know if that was a glitch etc - you know anything? Stark I think you switched my opinion though of the cynadon as I had not deemed it particularily interesting I dare say and with all due respect the colouration was similar to the Chinese beauty and I didn't rate picking a couple up when I had the chance due to this. There is something about Green snakes though that I have always liked and apart from a once upon a time Rough Green I have never kept another. Why that is so is beyond my own logic too - I reiterate some of the stunning glossy cyanea I have seen on the forum and elsewhere.

As Stark points out too - CB are different from LTC and WC. You can spend hundreds on vetinery bills nursing WC back to health and even then its not just a case of a few weeks - it can be months and months and months = costly and soul breaking! Please take heed of these words of kindly advice. However - sometimes there is a form of treasure so to speak at the end of some rainbows.

Does anyone know of the red and black banded Boiga dendrophila?


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

Red and black boiga!!?? Wow loving melonata's quick google search, And i've fallen in love with them!! Anybody breeding them?


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

There is a 'red and black' banded mangrove featured on one of those tourist Asian snake abuse/demonstration videos (believe the guy gets bitten on the tongue by it!).. I personally think that it is an artificially dyed animal as I can not think how it is physically possible for a mutation to have this effect..

As for people breeding _B. d. melanota_.. Only know of 2 in UK.
These were laid this morning by my female..




Tom


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

You selling the hatchlins??


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

Not from this clutch, no.

Tom


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Above photo is real - it does not click bigger than that though! One can not attain this colouration using Nekton either!!! I'm not 100% sure these are Boiga though its just an image I caught after watching the red and black Boiga (100%) bite the chap in the vid I saw and posted ages ago and to which I think Stark is refering to.


Again congrats Stark on another clutch. How old the male you putting to her?


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

KWIBEZEE said:


> [URL=http://www.herpnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/China-Snakes.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> Above photo is real - it does not click bigger than that though! One can not attain this colouration using Nekton either!!! I'm not 100% sure these are Boiga though its just an image I caught after watching the red and black Boiga (100%) bite the chap in the vid I saw and posted ages ago and to which I think Stark is refering to.
> 
> ...



Red ringed snake (Dinodon)? Look similar and are from China. Think they are rear-fanged as well?

Thank you man. Unfortunately it looks like maybe only 2 of the eggs are any good.. will see how they go and remove the obvious duds.
The male is the striped individual. I guess from his growth in the last year that he is between 3 and 6 years old. 
She has already eaten, so will get her back into shape and re-introduce him again. Time will tell...

Tom


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

hum - yes could well be the case :




"Red Banded Odd-Tooth Snake"... Dinodon rufozonatum ...

The one I saw on the vid ages ago with the guy being bitten I was convinced it was Boiga though - could be my mistake.


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

*VENPMKING *- pimp your thread - where are the photos??:whip:


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

^^^ - please...


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

Well this is embarrassing :blush: I can't figure out how to post images!!


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