# Leos genitics :D



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Ok ive got a few of them done but im missing a few 
anyone know any more to add to this list of Dom Co-dom and recessive genes of leopard geckos  
Thanks in advance 

*DOM*
Normal

*CO DOM*
Mack snow


*RECESSIVE*
Blizzard 
Patternless
Albino
Jungle
Banana blizzard
Blazing blizzard


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Banana Blizzard and Blazing Blizzard are not genes.

They're combinations of two genes. (Banana is Patternless Blizzard, Blazing is ANY Albino Blizzard.)

The genes as I am aware of them are:

*Dominant:* 
Enigma
Mack Pastel
Gem Snow

*Co/incomplete Dominant:*
Mack Snow
Hypo
Giant

*Recessive:*
Blizzard
Patternless
Tremper Albino
Las Vegas Albino
Bell Albino
Eclipse
"Emerald"

*Selectively Bred Traits:*
Tangerine
Carrot-Tail
Baldy
High Yellow
Linebred Snow

To my knowledge Jungle is not necessarily ALWAYS genetic (it can also appear due to incubation factors). I'm not sure about Reverse Stripe and Stripe, so I haven't included them in any of the categories above.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Thanks for that ssthisto,
Is jungle genetic if 2 parents are jungle?
And i know that blazing and banana blizard are a mix of 2 morphs but i meant are they resessive if mixed to another morph which isnt in their make up? for example a banana x normal most they will be normal? so is the banana basically a line bred trait?


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## Herpinfested (Apr 24, 2007)

whats a gem snow :S


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Faith said:


> Thanks for that ssthisto,
> Is jungle genetic if 2 parents are jungle?
> And i know that blazing and banana blizard are a mix of 2 morphs but i meant are they resessive if mixed to another morph which isnt in their make up? for example a banana x normal most they will be normal? so is the banana basically a line bred trait?


It might not be genetic if both parents are, for example, incubation-based Jungles. Aberrant patterns can crop up at any time - I have no aberrant adults, but last year I hatched out about a dozen aberrant-patterned babies. I won't say ANY of those are genetic. And I'm not sure Jungle has proved out to be a simple recessive either.

And Banana Blizzard (no such thing as just "banana") crossed to normal would make baby normal het Patternless and Blizzard. Real Banana Blizzard is not a linebred at all - it's a combination of homozygous Patternless, Homozygous Blizzard. Bred to a Blizzard it should make 100% blizzards, bred to a patternless it should make 100% patternless. 

Does that make sense?

Herpinfested: Gem Snow is a gene that hasn't popped up over here. It works WITH Mack Snow to produce Super Snows (an animal who carries one copy of Mack snow and one copy of Gem Snow will be a super snow) ... but either the people working with the gene have been VERY unlucky with the odds or one of two things happens if you get a homozygous Gem Snow - either it doesn't HAVE a "super" form (which makes it a dominant gene, not a codominant) ... or homozygous Gem Snows die before they hatch. I don't know if they know which it is yet.


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## katrinamw (Sep 9, 2007)

If albino is a recessive gene, and high yellow is a line bred trait, what would an albino / high yellow cross give me?

Sorry, I'm REALLY taking my time to learn this!!






Ssthisto said:


> The genes as I am aware of them are:
> *Dominant:*
> Enigma
> Mack Pastel
> ...


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

katrinamw said:


> If albino is a recessive gene, and high yellow is a line bred trait, what would an albino / high yellow cross give me?
> 
> Sorry, I'm REALLY taking my time to learn this!!


You'd get normals het for albino, and they might show enhanced yellow colouring.


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## katrinamw (Sep 9, 2007)

Thank you.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Banana Blizzard and Blazing Blizzard are not genes.
> 
> They're combinations of two genes. (Banana is Patternless Blizzard, Blazing is ANY Albino Blizzard.)
> 
> ...


is that most/all of the single trait morphs?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Many/most. I'm sure there's plenty I don't know about - I was reading that there's a third type of codom/dominant reduced-xanthism gene currently being called TUG Snow - but I don't know how it works with Mack, or whether it's just the same gene that's cropped up in a new place.


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## Susie_L (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Ssthisto,

I have a couple of questions, seeing as you know the genetics of Leos.

I have a pair of Snows (from Ray Hines) and this year we put the male with a female SHTBCT and 60 to 80 percent of the babies looked like they would be hypo Snows, so I get the part about Snow and Hypo being co-dominant, I think! Next year we will keep some of the babies back to see how they look as they mature.

Question 1; do you think they will continue to look like Hypo Snows? If so, can I sell them as such? If I can't call them Hypo Snows what should I sell them as? As I don't want to mislead anyone!

Question 2; if I put the male in with a female Blizzard what am I likely to get? Would the babies be Snows het for Blizzard because Blizzard is recessive? Again what should I market them as?

Hope you can help and thanks in advance,
Best wishes,


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

If they're carrying the Mack snow gene and have reduced spotting, they're hypo Snows. Macks DO pick up yellow colouring as they mature - and some of them wind up looking all but normal as they hit adulthood. This would be reduced if people would stop breeding a gecko who should be as white as possible with very little or no yellow colouring to geckos which have been selectively bred for enhanced yellow or orange colouring.

But anyway....

If they have the genes, they're hypo Snow. If they don't, they're not. That's how simple it is  

Put a Mack Snow to a blizzard and you'd expect half normals and half Mack Snows - and all of them would be het blizzard.


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## Susie_L (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks Ssthisto, that's my wrist slapped! lol.

So I'll only pair my female SHTBCT with the Snow male a couple of times next year, just to raise a few babies and see how they turn out, because I'm curious to see if they get better or worse with age.

So theoretically, the Blizzard not having enhanced yellow/orange would be a better 2nd mate for my Snow male?

I don't know if my Snows are Mack Snows or not, as I didn't ask when I bought them! (My local rep shop got them direct from Ray Hines). Although they are some of the better ones I've seen, as they have very little creamy yellow on them!

Thanks again, best wishes,


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Susie_L said:


> Thanks Ssthisto, that's my wrist slapped! lol.


Wasn't actually aimed at you specifically, but at people in general. Means *I* can't buy a Mack Snow hatchling and expect it to stay monochrome, which is what peeves me. If-when I have Macks that I'm breeding, I'll be selecting for the least yellow - I want snows, not pale yellow Don't-Eat-The's.



> So I'll only pair my female SHTBCT with the Snow male a couple of times next year, just to raise a few babies and see how they turn out, because I'm curious to see if they get better or worse with age.


You might turn out with some nice looking geckos - do a google search for Creamsicle Gecko.



> So theoretically, the Blizzard not having enhanced yellow/orange would be a better 2nd mate for my Snow male?


Depends on what colour the blizzard is under her white jacket. Blizzard HIDES other colours, but it doesn't mean the potential for them doesn't exist. You could theoretically breed Blizzard into a line of screaming orange Super Hypo Tangerines, and those white blizzards would still carry the selective breeding for having enhanced orange colouring. They just can't show it.



> I don't know if my Snows are Mack Snows or not, as I didn't ask when I bought them! (My local rep shop got them direct from Ray Hines). Although they are some of the better ones I've seen, as they have very little creamy yellow on them!
> 
> Thanks again, best wishes,


If they're good and pale they're either Linebred Snows (which Ray Hine was selling some years back, but may not have any more) or Mack Snows - or maybe the best of all worlds, Mack Snows that have been bred into the Linebred Snow lines for really monochrome Macks.


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## Susie_L (Oct 10, 2007)

> Wasn't actually aimed at you specifically, but at people in general. Means *I* can't buy a Mack Snow hatchling and expect it to stay monochrome, which is what peeves me. If-when I have Macks that I'm breeding, I'll be selecting for the least yellow - I want snows, not pale yellow Don't-Eat-The's.


Don't worry I didn't take offence, I'm here to learn!



> You might turn out with some nice looking geckos - do a google search for Creamsicle Gecko.


I did a search but all it was turning up was creamsicle corns and crested geckos. If you have a specific link I would be interested in reading it, thanks!



> If they're good and pale they're either Linebred Snows (which Ray Hine was selling some years back, but may not have any more) or Mack Snows - or maybe the best of all worlds, Mack Snows that have been bred into the Linebred Snow lines for really monochrome Macks.


Not sure which they would be. We bought them mid 2006 as bigger juveniles. :idea:I could try contacting him direct to see if he may know.

Thanks for the replies!
Best wishes,


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Susie_L said:


> I did a search but all it was turning up was creamsicle corns and crested geckos. If you have a specific link I would be interested in reading it, thanks!


How 'bout this:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/48474-creamsicle-leo.html


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## Susie_L (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks Ssthisto, interesting reading!


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