# A bite experiment



## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Yesterday I set about trying to get bitten by one of my 5-to-6-inch long _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_. I handled one, got it onto my right hand. It must have decided I smelled like food, because it proceeded to bite me 3 times in 3 different places at the base of my right index finger. I gave it perhaps 10 seconds of bite time. Because of the 3 bites there were and still are 6 puncture wounds, 1 of which began to bleed a little. Initial pain was sharp, but that was probably the mechanical pain caused by the fangs. I quickly put the pede back in the tank, and soon the puncture wounds turned into white, slightly raised lumps, and there was a constant sharp pain as well as a tingling feeling. However the pain was manageable. By now it has been almost 12 hours since the incident and there is no more pain or swelling.

Tonight I would like to try getting bitten again to confirm the symptoms. It must be noted that this pede bit me THREE times and had its fangs in my skin for almost 10 seconds, and that it is over 13cm in length.

These pictures were taken approximately 10 minutes after I got bitten.


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## fpa05 (Nov 28, 2008)

Hmmm... you sound like a pretty clever guy :whistling2: lol


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

fpa05 said:


> Hmmm... you sound like a pretty clever guy :whistling2: lol


Thank you. Anyway I did this solely to show people the effects of the bite of _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

I believe i speak for everyone when i say.....What the hell dude.


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Lucifugus said:


> I believe i speak for everyone when i say.....What the hell dude.


I think the OP needs to get out more.

True the results are quite fascinating however I do not necessarily need to get run over by a Bus to imagine what the pain would be like and hence will not further any research into the matter.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

AZUK said:


> I think the OP needs to get out more.
> 
> True the results are quite fascinating however I do not necessarily need to get run over by a Bus to imagine what the pain would be like and hence will not further any research into the matter.


That's a poor example. Getting run over by a bus, or any large moving vehicle for that matter, is almost certainly fatal, whereas the venom of the centipede that bit me is not known to be medically significant.

You need to do some research with regards to centipede venom toxicity.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Phark said:


> is almost certainly fatal,


As this may have been. You could have been allergic. And saying "I have been bitten before" doesn't help: its called a senstisier, it will _increase_ the chances of you becoming allergic and increase the chances of serious allergic reactions. 

Oh how we all would have been laughing if you had died eh?

I wouldn't do it if I was you. You really are just risking sensitising your self to it, so then when you are accidentally bit, you have anaphalytic shock and die. Oh the joy.


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## lynneowen1 (Jun 5, 2008)

lol oooooooooooooooooooooooooooouch! why? heheheh i was right yesterday you do like to be bitten:lol2:


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

AshMashMash said:


> As this may have been. You could have been allergic. And saying "I have been bitten before" doesn't help: its called a senstisier, it will _increase_ the chances of you becoming allergic and increase the chances of serious allergic reactions.
> 
> Oh how we all would have been laughing if you had died eh?
> 
> I wouldn't do it if I was you. You really are just risking sensitising your self to it, so then when you are accidentally bit, you have anaphalytic shock and die. Oh the joy.


I'm happy to know my death is so looked forward to.

What causes this sensitivity?


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## alphakenny1 (Sep 16, 2008)

im gonna give the missus some abuse, just too see how much nom she gonna give me! after all you never know when she could randomly attack:Na_Na_Na_Na::bash:


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Just because its not known to be medically significant doesn't mean that its 

A) Not painful - You didn't know what the effects would be and it could have ended up very badly. It was lucky that this was one of the cases where it wasn't that bad.

B) Irresponsible - Kids look at this forum, monkey see monkey do. Let alone people may get an idea that pedes in general don't hurt too much if they bite let alone other medical factors involved. Fair enough if you got bitten due to your own mistake in maintenance but purposely going out to get bitten? 

This is not taking into the account of individual responses to venom, you may be resistant to that kind of venom or even venom in general. Let alone that as stated in another thread pedes can control the amount of venom injected so you may have had a minor dosage. Others may not be so lucky especially if they go into anaphalaxis. Im interested in the venom of the Psalmopoeus cambridgei but i wouldn't put my hand in to find out the effects personally.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Phark said:


> What causes this sensitivity?


Repeated exposure to the same stimulus. The more you do it, the more chance of becoming allergic there is. Thats why some of the venomous-snake handling guys are now allergic to some snake venom. http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology...at-certain-cells-may-eliminate-poison-3022-1/



> In people who have been sensitized (i.e., made allergic) by prior exposure to substances such as peanuts or certain pollens, mast cells also respond to those stimuli.


Have a look here:

Allergy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

To really have been worth your time this 'experiment' should have been fully documented and findings sent off to some research bodies etc. Full accounts at set time intervals including pics etc. Is that what you're doing?


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## lynneowen1 (Jun 5, 2008)

alphakenny1 said:


> im gonna give the missus some abuse, just too see how much nom she gonna give me! after all you never know when she could randomly attack:Na_Na_Na_Na::bash:


ooooooooooo dicing wiv death their lol
that bite will deffo kill:lol2:


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> You didn't know what the effects would be


Actually, I did. Arachnoboards has a Bite Reports section and I knew what to expect from the bite.

As for the rest of your post, on hindsight, I have to agree. But I do not actively promote the handling of centipedes; this was a decision of mine somewhat inspired by Cacoseraph.

Sorry if I have misled anyone. Any venom can be potentially deadly if the victim is allergic to it.


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Mark said:


> You need to do some research with regards to centipede venom toxicity.


ERMMM.................... no I don't ! .................... what is you suffered an allergic reaction ? ..........who knew.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

AZUK said:


> ERMMM.................... no I don't ! .................... what is you suffered an allergic reaction ? ..........who knew.


Thanks for changing my screen name to "Mark".


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

your welcome :2thumb:


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Unless you are an orphaned nomad,purposefully risking death by allergic reaction just to be able to say"look! I was right!'pede bites are over hyped!" is not only immature but extremely selfish.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

That was a really clever thing to do.... I'm impressed.....
Have you told your carer what you done....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

your losing any credibility you had in my eyes dude, stupid pointless thing to do, the only reason to do it is to show off and tbh its made you look like a knob


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Darwin award anyone?


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> your losing any credibility you had in my eyes dude, stupid pointless thing to do, the only reason to do it is to show off and tbh its made you look like a knob


Does it matter? I can't please everyone, can I?

Stupid people like me will be snuffed out of the gene pool sooner or later, so why worry?


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

Had it been an accidental mishap bite and it had been documented with notes and observation then sent as article for journal publications then that would have been a valid experiment in the same as if someone is bitten by said Pokie and make written report on the effects, in the case of an accident. Too intentionally get bitten as an experiment to me comes across as pointless and kinda careless but im not one to judge just my opinion on the subject. Also if someone has read up on what can be expected from bite, why put yourself through it.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

spider_mad said:


> if someone has read up on what can be expected from bite, why put yourself through it.


Because different people react differently. I wanted to see how I reacted.

In any case why bother about an ignorant stupid prick like me? Posting here was a waste of time for all of you, no?


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Phark said:


> Because different people react differently. I wanted to see how I reacted.
> 
> In any case why bother about an ignorant stupid prick like me? Posting here was a waste of time for all of you, no?


I don't understand what you expected peoples responses to be.Are forum members meant to think this was a clever,intelligent and well thought out experiment?Or that your daft for risking your health,tax payers money and possibly the life of someone else who had genuine need for the ambulance that may well have been required should you have had a bad reaction?All in all this was,I feel,just done to show off and prove your previous points that centipede bites are over hyped in the hobby.The simple fact is you have been lucky,next time you may not be so.Now people are pointing that out you're getting defensive and rude.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Well, not to defend the OP but...

A lot of scientists in the early days did exactly as he did here. 

An example:

"Oh, nobody knows what this newly discovered radioactve material does to people, c'mon Pierre lets strap some onto our arms for several months and see what it does". 

Now, if Marie Curie can win 2 nobel prizes...

Yes, it was quite stupid, but at least the OP can describe his own experience and not rely on "someone else had this effect". I wouldn't advise doing it again however.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

I believe this was done purely for the wow factor,much the same as the OP's thread about him feeding live geckos to his frogs.Trolling if you will.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> Does it matter? I can't please everyone, can I?
> 
> Stupid people like me will be snuffed out of the gene pool sooner or later, so why worry?


I have a little rattlesnake, at that size you probably wouldnt die, do you want to come and stick your hand in the tub? just to see what happens


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Barry.M said:


> I believe this was done purely for the wow factor,much the same as the OP's thread about him feeding live geckos to his frogs.Trolling if you will.


Hmmn...I never saw that one....thats not cool.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> Well, not to defend the OP but...
> 
> A lot of scientists in the early days did exactly as he did here.
> 
> ...


Marie Curie also died painfully and proving if you do something utterly moronic in the name of poorly conducted science you can get fame, glory and a charity named after you. Although the difference between her case and this case is her work made the foundation of saving countless lives.

To be fair to the OP even if they willingly got bitten the results are still interesting. However they have little indication on what a real bite would be like. The difference being is not many people would actually handle a centipede so bites would more likely be to other areas let alone that most people after a single bite would have thrown the centipede off. Also at least he admitted that he did it on purpose rather than saying "well i was cleaning its enclosure...." like others have done. Still not something to be emulated or repeated.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Barry.M said:


> I believe this was done purely for the wow factor,much the same as the OP's thread about him feeding live geckos to his frogs.Trolling if you will.


Let's get things straight here, pal:

1) It was a one-off thing

2) House geckos are annoying carriers of germs in my part of the world and in my home

3) My country does not prohibit the use of vertebrates as feeders

And trolling? What constitutes "trolling"? Seeking attention? When somebody here posts pictures of his pets, is he not seeking attention?


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

I am thoroughly intrigued. Since I'm such a fool in your eyes, why are you folks bothering to say anything? Wouldn't it be a waste of time for intellectuals like you? Why bother wasting the neurons in your heads on a dimwit like me? Really, you should be saving them for your other, more significant endeavours.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Because its funny, its not everyday someone posts that they have done something so idiotic then tries to justify it.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> Because its funny, its not everyday someone posts that they have done something so idiotic then tries to justify it.


Yeah you're right. I hope I managed to add some much-needed laughter to your life with my idiotic behaviour. Maybe you should thank me.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> I am thoroughly intrigued. Since I'm such a fool in your eyes, why are you folks bothering to say anything? Wouldn't it be a waste of time for intellectuals like you? Why bother wasting the neurons in your heads on a dimwit like me? Really, you should be saving them for your other, more significant endeavours.


 To show others on here how to deal with a moron....:Na_Na_Na_Na:. Your experiment has given us chance to warn off other would be attention seeking moronic keepers.....:no1:
Cheers for that at least you achieved some good....: victory:


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

I for one think that this was a very worthwhile experiment and the op should be applauded for his courage in doing this to find out what it was like so others don't have to!

I light of this I have realised that I myself have become very selfish lately and to make up for this I have just let an adult gaboon viper chew on my goolies.

I will let you all know how it goes.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> To show others on here how to deal with a moron....:Na_Na_Na_Na:. Your experiment has given us chance to warn off other would be attention seeking moronic keepers.....:no1:
> Cheers for that at least you achieved some good....: victory:


I expected intellectuals like you folks to know how to deal with morons instead of having to be taught to do so. Not so clever after all, eh?


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Doodles said:


> I for one think that this was a very worthwhile experiment and the op should be applauded for his courage in doing this to find out what it was like so others don't have to!
> 
> I light of this I have realised that I myself have become very selfish lately and to make up for this I have just let an adult gaboon viper chew on my goolies.
> 
> I will let you all know how it goes.


What were you looking to achieve with such sarcastic remarks?


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

a bit unusual but i dont really see too much of a problem. Look At Caco on AB, MANY people have been able to better understand the effects on humans.. we should all know LD50 tables are worked on mice and rats which obviously have different morphology.
Essentially this info is a bite report.. If he wants to get bitten..fine..
If he writes it up and shows the report then its benefitial imo..... as he has.. though this forum will only loose it into the archives


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Doodles said:


> I for one think that this was a very worthwhile experiment and the op should be applauded for his courage in doing this to find out what it was like so others don't have to!
> 
> I light of this I have realised that I myself have become very selfish lately and to make up for this I have just let an adult gaboon viper chew on my goolies.
> 
> I will let you all know how it goes.


good work mate, a very noble and worthwhile thing you have done


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

SiUK said:


> good work mate, a very noble and worthwhile thing you have done


I thought so starting to sting a little bit now. Should be ok though I am only allergic to puff adders:whistling2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

No point in getting abusive.... You made a dodgy post and expected a different reaction to the one you got..... It's not big or clever to intentionally envenomate yourself....
We are just pointing out to others that read this why you are a moron.....
Don't be offended.... You should of realised not everyone would think you had a good idea....
Oh and I'm not an intellectual, but I am smart enough to realise you are a plonker...


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

C_Strike said:


> a bit unusual but i dont really see too much of a problem. Look At Caco on AB, MANY people have been able to better understand the effects on humans.. we should all know LD50 tables are worked on mice and rats which obviously have different morphology.
> Essentially this info is a bite report.. If he wants to get bitten..fine..
> If he writes it up and shows the report then its benefitial imo..... as he has.. though this forum will only loose it into the archives


At last, someone who sees the bigger picture. Thank you. :2thumb:


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

Phark said:


> At last, someone who sees the bigger picture. Thank you. :2thumb:


A number of arachnologists fel the same as yourself ya know, look at Baerg in the 50s n 60s, he would induce bites from A chalcodes.. Duchess.
I do feel its a big part to keeping them, knwoing what you could expect.
its more infuencial seeing as its human not animal.
You wouldnt know that G rosea urticating setae are very dangerous for dogs without it happening to someone, appanrently it can choke them within hours...
Heck, you wouldnt even know the hairs were irritant to humans without someone reacting to them and noting it down.
Its a contravertial subject but a pretty immeaurably helpful with a growing number of people owning tarantulas that they dont have anyidea about and or have only a working name
I hope your not weak to any of the toxins, n i DEFINATELy wouldnt like to swap places but meh, your choice.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

Here is a bite report taken from a scientific journal:

While handling an approximately 20-cm Scolopendra subspinipes (a species native to much of Asia and the Pacific islands; Figure 1 ) for a television interview, the same victim as in case 2 (S.S.) was stung once on his left index finger at approximately 10 AM (October 18, 1999). The patient had been stung by this species once previously with minimal reported effects (little pain and no swelling). On this occasion, however, there was nearly immediate onset of burning pain that spread over the next several minutes into the back of his hand. Blood oozed from 2 puncture wounds for several minutes, and swelling and erythema began at the site. Two puncture wounds were present, approximately 1.5 cm apart (Figure 2 ). Pain engulfed the entire hand. A burning sensation was present at the leading edge of the soft tissue swelling with severe throbbing at the sting site. By 10:30 AM, the swelling in the finger had become pronounced (with approximately 50% loss of flexibility) and had spread into the dorsum of the hand. Pain was now present in the left elbow and axilla. By 11 AM, pain was present to some degree in all the digits of the hand, and pain in the wrist, elbow, and axilla was pronounced. Swelling continued over the next several hours, peaking at approximately 3:30 PM (with swelling of all 5 digits and the dorsum of the hand and proximal wrist) (Figure 3 ). By this point, pain was a “10” on a verbal scale of 1 to 10. There was a severe “sprained” sensation from the elbow to the hand. The patient self-medicated with acetaminophen (2000 mg per os), but noted no relief of the pain. He got some pain relief by applying local heat (by wrapping a heating pad around his hand with an elastic bandage, covering this with a large bath towel, and wedging his arm between 2 pillows to increase the insulation). (Recreation of this technique later demonstrated an attained temperature of 41°C at the skin surface.) He maintained this heat application for approximately 6 hours and noted his pain level was reduced to approximately a “5.” The patient was unable to find a position of comfort and had a restless night secondary to the pain. On arising at 4 AM the next morning (October 19, 1999), the patient noted significant improvement in the pain, and he experienced nearly complete resolution by 7 AM. Swelling persisted, however, and as the patient used the hand throughout the day, mild ecchymosis developed over the proximal phalanges and metacarpals. The swelling began to recede by early that afternoon and was resolved by the morning of October 20, 1999. Pain did not recur and there was no necrosis.

And a bit of the summary: No fatality due to a centipede sting has ever been reported in the United States, although 1 fatality was reported following a sting by a large specimen of S subspinipes (the same species responsible for cases 3 and 4 in our series) to the head of a small Filipino child. (Remington CL)


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> look at Baerg in the *50s n 60s*


I think that sums it all up Cam:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

C_Strike said:


> A number of arachnologists fel the same as yourself ya know, look at Baerg in the 50s n 60s, he would induce bites from A chalcodes.. Duchess.
> I do feel its a big part to keeping them, knwoing what you could expect.
> its more infuencial seeing as its human not animal.
> You wouldnt know that G rosea urticating setae are very dangerous for dogs without it happening to someone, appanrently it can choke them within hours...
> ...


Honestly, I do hope to be a arachnologist or a myriapodologist someday.

Again, thanks for the vote of support.


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

Willyleigh said:


> Here is a bite report taken from a scientific journal:
> 
> While handling an approximately 20-cm Scolopendra subspinipes (a species native to much of Asia and the Pacific islands; Figure 1 ) for a television interview, the same victim as in case 2 (S.S.) was stung once on his left index finger at approximately 10 AM (October 18, 1999). The patient had been stung by this species once previously with minimal reported effects (little pain and no swelling). On this occasion, however, there was nearly immediate onset of burning pain that spread over the next several minutes into the back of his hand. Blood oozed from 2 puncture wounds for several minutes, and swelling and erythema began at the site. Two puncture wounds were present, approximately 1.5 cm apart (Figure 2 ). Pain engulfed the entire hand. A burning sensation was present at the leading edge of the soft tissue swelling with severe throbbing at the sting site. By 10:30 AM, the swelling in the finger had become pronounced (with approximately 50% loss of flexibility) and had spread into the dorsum of the hand. Pain was now present in the left elbow and axilla. By 11 AM, pain was present to some degree in all the digits of the hand, and pain in the wrist, elbow, and axilla was pronounced. Swelling continued over the next several hours, peaking at approximately 3:30 PM (with swelling of all 5 digits and the dorsum of the hand and proximal wrist) (Figure 3 ). By this point, pain was a “10” on a verbal scale of 1 to 10. There was a severe “sprained” sensation from the elbow to the hand. The patient self-medicated with acetaminophen (2000 mg per os), but noted no relief of the pain. He got some pain relief by applying local heat (by wrapping a heating pad around his hand with an elastic bandage, covering this with a large bath towel, and wedging his arm between 2 pillows to increase the insulation). (Recreation of this technique later demonstrated an attained temperature of 41°C at the skin surface.) He maintained this heat application for approximately 6 hours and noted his pain level was reduced to approximately a “5.” The patient was unable to find a position of comfort and had a restless night secondary to the pain. On arising at 4 AM the next morning (October 19, 1999), the patient noted significant improvement in the pain, and he experienced nearly complete resolution by 7 AM. Swelling persisted, however, and as the patient used the hand throughout the day, mild ecchymosis developed over the proximal phalanges and metacarpals. The swelling began to recede by early that afternoon and was resolved by the morning of October 20, 1999. Pain did not recur and there was no necrosis.


Assuming that thats the guy that got bit 3 times unintentionally? never understood how he wasnt trying, but still the reports detailed enough


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

SiUK said:


> I think that sums it all up Cam:Na_Na_Na_Na:


hehe
well still Baerg has ben one of the most influencial and prominant players in theraphosids.. it is out dated, but how else can you get accurate results for its effect on a human body.


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

C_Strike said:


> Assuming that thats the guy that got bit 3 times unintentionally? never understood how he wasnt trying, but still the reports detailed enough


Yep, he got bitten by the same pede two days later :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

You guys do amaze me at your narrow mindedness.

There is never only one way to go about doing something. You can all mock the OP, but he has at least some first hand experience which the majority of you are lacking. It takes balls to decide to get bitten, and then maintain the thought of documenting the effects. 

The marie curie example was simply the first one that came to mind, there have been hundreds of examples. You have to remember,its only stupid in _hindsight;_ we know how radioactive materials now damage. Its no different to people during the Renaissance believing in unicorns - it only sounds stupid because in the 300 years since, we have proved unicorns dont exist. Given what spouts from people on this forum on a daily basis, we can hardly consider ourselves any less idiotic in our beliefs.

And as for the _geckos - _seems reasonable when you remember he doesnt live in the UK. I go out and use wild bugs to feed my animals, I dont see why anyone else cant. There's plenty of you here that feed house spiders to your Ts and _disgusts_ me. I know some americans that feed wild bugs like katydids which we keep as pets. Some people use hamsters and mice. A wild pest is probably better used as food than simply being destroyed like we do with house mice or rats.

[edit] Bare in mind that when I wrote this, the page was only at 4 pages of replies...can't keep up...


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Its no different to people during the Renaissance believing in unicorns


huh? dont they exist then?? :liar:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

SiUK said:


> I think that sums it all up Cam:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Considering that most of the work cited in the beginners guides was from the 80's or earlier, the hobby is hardly at the forefront of the current knowledge anyway...


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

GRB said:


> You guys do amaze me at your narrow mindedness.
> 
> There is never only one way to go about doing something. You can all mock the OP, but he has at least some first hand experience which the majority of you are lacking. It takes balls to decide to get bitten, and then maintain the thought of documenting the effects.
> 
> ...


im amazed that people actually think its a good idea, I worry whats going through peoples minds when they compare some guy getting bitten on purpose by a centipede and writing a very sketchy report to Marie Curie :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

C_Strike said:


> huh? dont they exist then?? :liar:


Hahaha! :Na_Na_Na_Na: Hate to break it to you...


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

GRB said:


> The marie curie example was simply the first one that came to mind, there have been hundreds of examples. You have to remember,its only stupid in _hindsight;_ we know how radioactive materials now damage. Its no different to people during the Renaissance believing in unicorns - it only sounds stupid because in the 300 years since, we have proved unicorns dont exist. Given what spouts from people on this forum on a daily basis, we can hardly consider ourselves any less idiotic in our beliefs.
> 
> 
> 
> [edit] Bare in mind that when I wrote this, the page was only at 4 pages of replies...can't keep up...


I agree with you here, although I have to say that we haven't proved that unicorns don't exist it is almost impossible to prove that they don't exist, as just one sighting proves that they do. (Bit of a hijack, I'm sorry)

There's still hope for you yet C_strike.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

SiUK said:


> im amazed that people actually think its a good idea, I worry whats going through peoples minds when they compare some guy getting bitten on purpose by a centipede and writing a very sketchy report to Marie Curie :lol2:


It was just a quick analogy; Prof Curie was a double nobel prize winner and carried out massively important research from humbles beginnings.

Without hindsight telling us that strapping radioactive materials to your arm is idiotic, then her experiment becomes no less stupid than the OP's.

The OP basically decided he disagreed with the hypothesis that the venom was dangerous. A simple and effective way to test this is simply to be bitten. IN HIS CASE the hypothesis was incorrect, and the venom proved somewhat mild. 

Hindsight and hearsay is what is driving everyone here to just jump on the band wagon and mock. What started this thought that the venom is so dangerous? Was it the same thoughts or people that decided that solifuges chase people or that they have necrotising venom? Thats just as rediculous to us, but thats only because some people decided to actually study the things and disprove the commonly accepted "facts". 

All I'm trying to say is that a lot of people here are far too accepting of "facts" that have not been tested. if anything, further study needs to be done on venom, so there is no gospel truth *either way *as regarding it being weak or strong in its action. Deriding the OPs method of experiment is hardly a useful exercise when no one has pushed forward a better methodology themselves. 

If he is so moronic, how would you guys, of implied surperior intellect, test the effects?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Willyleigh said:


> I agree with you here, although I have to say that we haven't proved that unicorns don't exist it is almost impossible to prove that they don't exist, as just one sighting proves that they do. (Bit of a hijack, I'm sorry)
> 
> There's still hope for you yet C_strike.


Yes, you are indeed right. From now on, if I say "prove" what I mean is "proven beyond significant doubt" :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

GRB said:


> It was just a quick analogy; Prof Curie was a double nobel prize winner and carried out massively important research from humbles beginnings.
> 
> Without hindsight telling us that strapping radioactive materials to your arm is idiotic, then her experiment becomes no less stupid than the OP's.
> 
> ...


Just what I needed. : victory:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

you cannot rely on a sketchy test of one case of a bite on one person, its known that people have had pretty serious bites from centipedes some people dont, theres people that have been bitten by a monocled cobra and had minor localised effects that doesnt mean they arnt dangerous.

The only way to test it would be to do multiple tests on lots of people of various ages ect look at the effects more in depth in a hospital/lab enviroment where the proper monitoring equipment is available, look at the make up of the venom, the average yeild compared to size, theres so many factors that depend on how serious a bite is that its impossible to do and totally pointless by an amatuer at home with a pet centipede.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

GRB said:


> If he is so moronic, how would you guys, of implied surperior intellect, test the effects?


No one is implying superior intellect (only the OP has said that) We are saying it's stupid to get bitten by a known venomous animal (even if the venom is of unknown strength)... What does it prove?


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> No one is implying superior intellect (only the OP has said that) We are saying it's stupid to get bitten by a known venomous animal (even if the venom is of unknown strength)... What does it prove?


Calling me a moron is implying that the rest of you aren't - does that not equate to implying superior intellect?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> Calling me a moron is implying that the rest of you aren't - does that not equate to implying superior intellect?


so purposefully letting yourself get bitten is a clever thing to do then?


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

OK you got bit and wrote a report....What if it had gone the other way and you had gone down. You wouldn't of got to write the report, we wouldn't of known a thing about it and we would of been non the wiser...


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> It was just a quick analogy; Prof Curie was a double nobel prize winner and carried out massively important research from humbles beginnings.
> 
> Without hindsight telling us that strapping radioactive materials to your arm is idiotic, then her experiment becomes no less stupid than the OP's.
> 
> ...


*sigh* The test is inconclusive and stand alone at best, if you want to test it properly you need testing on a variety of people of different age groups and genders. Let alone the dosage has to be controlled as we *dont know *how much was injected. Its very possible he received a mild dose as we know centipedes can control the amount injected. Prefribly with lab work (blood samples etc) to go along with it. Let alone follow up studys as some venom can actually effect people long after the initial exposure. Theirs a Caterpillar out there that causes organ failure up to a year after the initial exposure to its venom, pokeys causing muscle degridation up to six months after etc etc ad nausium.

We *know *people have different reactions to venom and the tollerence to venom changes depending on a variety of factors, many of which are beyond our control. The only thing this bite has shown was his reaction to THAT bite at that particular time. Nothing more.

Venom is dangerous, even a single bee sting can kill some people. Its not accepting the facts blindly its more like wanting to avoid being envenomated in the first place. Hell if he died at least we could have enscribed "I did it for science.....oh dear god im shitting out my kidneys" on his tomb stone eh?


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> so purposefully letting yourself get bitten is a clever thing to do then?


And so you're once again insinuating that I'm a moron and you're of a higher mental ability.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> *Its very possible he received a mild dose*


I disagree. Like I said in the original post, I was bitten *thrice*, and the centipede had almost 10 seconds of bite time. The amount of venom injected was most likely substantial.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> And so you're once again insinuating that I'm a moron and you're of a higher mental ability.


OK perhaps not a moron , but your certainly not firing on all cylinders....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> And so you're once again insinuating that I'm a moron and you're of a higher mental ability.


I asked you a question not call you a moron, I want to know what has been gained from doing it thats worthwhile and taught you something, thats out of interest, im not calling you a moron, I would just like a sensible and justified discussion about why it was a good idea.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Phark said:


> I disagree. Like I said in the original post, I was bitten *thrice*, and the centipede had almost 10 seconds of bite time. The amount of venom injected was most likely substantial.


But neither hypothesis can be proved or disproved since the lack of actual control.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> I disagree. Like I said in the original post, I was bitten *thrice*, and the centipede had almost 10 seconds of bite time. The amount of venom injected was *most likely substantial*.


 
theres a major flaw there, you dont know, theres no way to tell except a guess


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

so you have ignored both mine and Lucifus reasons as to why the experiment is ineffective, and ignored when I asked what has been gained by it, and picked out the comments that are just insulting you, if you want to have a discussion about this then lets, because I am asking genuine questions and not being insulting.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> *sigh* The test is inconclusive and stand alone at best, if you want to test it properly you need testing on a variety of people of different age groups and genders. Let alone the dosage has to be controlled as we *dont know *how much was injected. Its very possible he received a mild dose as we know centipedes can control the amount injected. Prefribly with lab work (blood samples etc) to go along with it. Let alone follow up studys as some venom can actually effect people long after the initial exposure. Theirs a Caterpillar out there that causes organ failure up to a year after the initial exposure to its venom, pokeys causing muscle degridation up to six months after etc etc ad nausium.
> 
> We *know *people have different reactions to venom and the tollerence to venom changes depending on a variety of factors, many of which are beyond our control. The only thing this bite has shown was his reaction to THAT bite at that particular time. Nothing more.
> 
> Venom is dangerous, even a single bee sting can kill some people. Its not accepting the facts blindly its more like wanting to avoid being envenomated in the first place. Hell if he died at least we could have enscribed "I did it for science.....oh dear god im shitting out my kidneys" on his tomb stone eh?


*sighs*. 

Yes, thank you for pointing out what is already known to me, and missing the point of my entire post. 

NONE of the evidence banded about IN THIS ENTIRE HOBBY just about is "Real science", because only a few actually read any of the REAL SCIENCE that is carried out in arachnology. Most people here don't even critique experiments published, or the musings of others. Most of the time, these forums are just a bitching ground to see how can trump each other based on housekeeping, or to show off new acquisitions. 

Its all hearsay; all I was illustrating would be that if THIS bite was say, the first instance of a bite, then the general consensus would be different, and someone who reacted differently would be in a similar position to the OP trying to defend his/her own allergic reaction. 

Everyone knows that some people are sensitive and can be killed by a bee sting for example. However, WE DO NOT classify bee venom as extremely dangerous based on that. We take a middle ground and highlight that it can be dangerous. However, that relies on OTHER people NOT dying to bee venom. 

In this case, it is centipede venom; SOME people have a large reaction, and it seems to be that a disproportionate levl of fear is associated with this. What was the "severe" sample size? 100's of cases? Or 30 different people? Who has compared the number of "severe" cases to "non severe"? This is an example of a NON SEVERE bite. However, it's impossible to contextualise it because there are basically only "severe" bites known by us to compare it to. Why is that? Because it seems that only severe bites get noticed, and if someone has a mild bite is "lucky". How do we know that the severe bites werent extra sensitive individuals or "unlucky"?

Yes, it proves little on its own, but if it is compared and used in a data set with severe and non severe bites then it IS useful.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> I disagree. Like I said in the original post, I was bitten *thrice*, and the centipede had almost 10 seconds of bite time. The amount of venom injected was most likely substantial.


So using your method of experimentation, its safe to assume that when a friend of mine was bitten by a Green Mamba (and nothing happened to him) that Green Mamba venom is not a powerful as others have documented...I don't think so....


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> so you have ignored both mine and Lucifus reasons as to why the experiment is ineffective, and ignored when I asked what has been gained by it, and picked out the comments that are just insulting you, if you want to have a discussion about this then lets, because I am asking genuine questions and not being insulting.


I think GRB has spoken for me (partly because I couldn't come up with something as comprehensive as that).


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

shep1979 said:


> Wot a total ** u are!!!! its people like u that give other herb keepers a bad name ,there is nopoint in wot u are doing with getting it to bite u as "ur" test is one on one person U so the results are pointless ,
> !!!!!


I dont think there is any need for that.

If anything, it is badly punctuated, mis-spelt and non constructive comments from keepers like you that give us all a bad name by communicating that we are all a bunch of under-educated people incapable of structured thought or grasping basic spelling. 

Why not leave the discussion of scientific merit to scientists? I'll happily discuss with Lucifus, C_Strike etc, but random name calling doesnt further anything.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

shep1979 said:


> Wot a total ****ing idot u are!!!! its people like u that give other herb keepers a bad name ,there is nopoint in wot u are doing with getting it to bite u as "ur" test is one on one person U so the results are pointless ,
> TWAT !!!!!


Whether you agree with the OP's actions or not,name calling and swearing on an open thread will serve no purpose other than seeing that thread closed and the discussion ended.Then you help no one see either side.Bad form.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

GRB said:


> I dont think there is any need for that.
> 
> If anything, it is badly punctuated, mis-spelt and non constructive comments from keepers like you that give us all a bad name by communicating that we are all a bunch of under-educated people incapable of structured thought or grasping basic spelling.
> 
> Why not leave the discussion of scientific merit to scientists? I'll happily discuss with Lucifus, C_Strike etc, but random name calling doesnt further anything.


thats the thing though mate, it has no scientific merit


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> thats the thing though mate, it has no scientific merit


Added to a table/graph of info regarding bite effects for this species, I believe my bite report would be of scientific merit. Furthermore...this Arachnoboards thread lends some support to my hypothesis - 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1292612#post1292612

There are many more non-severe than severe reports of Mutilans bites.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> Added to a table of info regarding bite effects for this species, I believe my bite report would be of scientific merit.


how would it? genuine question im not having a go mate.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> *sighs*.
> 
> Yes, thank you for pointing out what is already known to me, and missing the point of my entire post.
> 
> ...


So what if most forum members don't read or critique journals? We all decide our own levels of involvement. Some of us like reading journals and spending time researching inverts outside of basic husbandry. Just because others don't it doesn't mean they cant talk about inverts like the rest of us. Besides this forum is for spider keepers of a variety of levels.

The reason the OP is getting so much flack is because he jumped on the scientific bandwagon in an attempt to dodge any responsibility for what he did. Its clear to see it wasn't for any scientific reasons, it was for bragging rights. Theirs clearly nothing scientific about the bite for many reasons as stated. Yes this case was a mild envenomation, however it very easily could have gone the other way. Since we're supposed to be showing responsible keeping to potential new keepers and those who are starting up this was an extremly stupid thing to do. Let alone his past keeping habbits. It doesnt matter if it was his first bite or his 300th, its a pretty moronic thing that he did.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> how would it? genuine question im not having a go mate.


Well, if there is an _overwhelming_ number of cases where the symptoms are non-severe, as compared to severe bites, then it can be concluded that the venom of this particular species is generally not dangerous to anyone who is not sensitive or allergic. Do you agree?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Its a bite report, in the same manner as most others:

"I was bitten x times by xxxxxx.I had the following sympotoms xxxx"

How is any other bite report different? Unless you inject a known quantity of venom, then all bite/sting reports are of this type. 

This is pretty much how all venom reports on humans come in. At least in this case, the identity of the animal is known, rather than the thousands of jellyfish stings each year that get attributed to no particular species.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> *Its clear to see it wasn't for any scientific reasons, it was for bragging rights.*


In what way is this clear? Did I say "i let myself get bit, don't you think i've got guts?" ? 



Lucifus said:


> Let alone his past keeping habbits.


What "past keeping habits" are you talking about?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> _So what if most forum members don't read or critique journals?_ We all decide our own levels of involvement. Some of us like reading journals and spending time researching inverts outside of basic husbandry. Just because others don't it doesn't mean they cant talk about inverts like the rest of us. Besides this forum is for spider keepers of a variety of levels.
> 
> GRB: I'm not saying they can't: but at the same time, if you do not study science then you shouldnt be jumping into a conversation about subjects in greater depth than your own knowledge.
> 
> ...


See above. Whilst the method can be seen as moronic, it is actually a commonplace method to test the effects on humans, simply because there isnt much better that people can use.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah I do agree, but that is what is known anyway, what you would find out is that localised effects are the most common side effects, what people would be looking into is the clinical effects and more specific science behind it.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Phark said:


> *In what way is this clear? Did I say "i let myself get bit, don't you think i've got guts?" ?*
> 
> 
> *What "past keeping habits" are you talking about?*


Alright GRB I think it's about time I spoke for myself. I would like Lucifus to answer the above questions.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> yeah I do agree, but that is what is known anyway, what you would find out is that localised effects are the most common side effects, what people would be looking into is the clinical effects and more specific science behind it.


Well, in the first place my point was that the venom of this species is over-hyped. Systemic effects are very rare. I think that proves something, and that my bite report lends some support to the hypothesis.

Like GRB has mentioned, the fact that a single bee sting can kill a person doesn't necessarily mean bees are labelled "deadly". It's the same thing here. Just because of some people suffering severe reactions to bites, everyone else jumps on the "centipede venom is dangerous" bandwagon. Like GRB said earlier, who knows if those people with severe reactions were sensitive? Remember, only some people have had severe reactions.

And essentially I wanted to prove the opposite.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

SiUK said:


> yeah I do agree, but that is what is known anyway, what you would find out is that localised effects are the most common side effects, what people would be looking into is the clinical effects and more specific science behind it.


But again, that is very hard to sample.

It tends to be today that the evidence is either from other animals injected with known quantities of venom, or from incidental human based bite reports.

As with most science, the ideal test is often unavailable, so the best of the available data is utilised. In this case, a combination of LD50 (mice) and human bites are often used (although both suffer substancial bias).


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## clockworkorange (May 30, 2007)

Phark said:


> Added to a table/graph of info regarding bite effects for this species, I believe my bite report would be of scientific merit. Furthermore...this Arachnoboards thread lends some support to my hypothesis -
> 
> Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans - Arachnoboards
> 
> There are many more non-severe than severe reports of Mutilans bites.


Hello everybody,

very entertaining thread here, that keeps me away from my work:whistling2:

A few papers have been published on centipede bites and medical incidence of such bites, using hospital records as references.
I've pasted below the abstract of a paper reporting anaphilaxis after a scolo bite and a list of references for those who are interested in knowing more. Enjoy!

In some species, the venom contains 5-hydroxytryptamine or cytolysin.
There is an occurrence of histamine release by these venoms so that other
important components are present and require further study. In this report
we describe a case of centipede bite causing an anaphylactic reaction in a 23-year–old man. He had been bitten on his left little finger by a twenty centimeter-long centipede. Within 5 minutes, he developed face swelling
and generalized urticarial rash. Ten minutes later, he felt discomfort in his
chest, slowly became unresponsive and was delivered to the emergency
room where he was found hypotensive with systolic blood pressure of 50
mmHg and unmeasurable diastolic blood pressure. Standard treatment
with epinephrine, intravenous volume expansion and iv antihistamine
were started. After 400 ml of intravenous normal saline infusion, he
gained conscious and became normotensive. Systemic corticosteroid was
given and the patient was admitted to ward. Laboratory investigation
revealed only leucocytosis with lymphocyte predominate. He was
observed for 1 day until all clinical signs were improved then discharged
home. Unfortunately he did not come back to follow up.​*CONCLUSION:​*​Anaphylaxis from centipede bite can occurred and
should be awared. As far as we know, this is the first case report for centipede anaphylaxis.​
*(Supakthanasiri et al., 2004, in J ALLERGY CLIN IMMUNOL)*

*See also:*

 
Balit, C.R., Harvey, M.S., Waldock, J.M. and Isbister, G.K. (2004) Prospective study of centipede bites in Australia. _Journal of Toxicology_. 42, 1: 41-48.

Bush, S.P., King, B.O., Norris and Stockwell, S.A. (2001) Centipede envenomination. _Wilderness and environmental medicine_. 12: 93-99.

Knysak, I., Martins, R. and Bertim, C.R. (1998) Epidemiological aspects of centipede (Scolopendromorphae:Chilopoda) bites registered in Greater S. Paulo, SP, Brazil. _Rev. Saude Publica_. 32, 6: 514-518.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

GRB said:


> Its a bite report, in the same manner as most others:
> 
> "I was bitten x times by xxxxxx.I had the following sympotoms xxxx"
> 
> ...


Very true there. However bite reports in general are hardly scientific either. They only tell about a bite from that particular animal, on that person at that point in time. However they do give a real world representation of bites. In this case however the bite was forced. Any time this is done in tested conditions a stringent code of ethics would be followed or it wouldn't be accepted.

Due to the way this was carried out and posted on a forum where most people here keep tarantulas as "pets" he will get flack as we are supposed to promote responsible keeping. If he posted it on a scientific forum he would get a lot less flack (most likely a warning to be carefull) however his methods would be criticised. 





Phark said:


> In what way is this clear? Did I say "i let myself get bit, don't you think i've got guts?" ?
> 
> Lucifus: And i quote "Yesterday I set about trying to get bitten by one of my 5-to-6-inch long _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_. " Let alone labeling this as an "experiment" then a rather dodgey line of "Tonight I would like to try getting bitten again to confirm the symptom".
> 
> ...


Anyway im going to be late for my drs appointment and this has gone on for four hours now.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

clockworkorange said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> very entertaining thread here, that keeps me away from my work:whistling2:
> 
> ...



We all know that anaphylactic reactions from centipede bites are possible. In fact many allergens can give rise to anaphylactic reactions. This is, however, irrelevant to my point, which is - bites from the species, _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_, are generally mild.​


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> We all know that anaphylactic reactions from centipede bites are possible. In fact many allergens can give rise to anaphylactic reactions. This is, however, irrelevant to my point, which is - bites from the species, _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_, are generally mild.
> [/left]


 but what is "mild"


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

> Lucifus: Feeding geckos to horned frogs perhaps?


I repeat - I do not live in the United Kingdom; therefore, I am not bound by its laws. I thought an intellectual like you would grasp that fact easily enough. Looks like I was wrong.


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## sandwell-x (Sep 2, 2008)

SiUK said:


> your losing any credibility you had in my eyes dude, stupid pointless thing to do, the only reason to do it is to show off and tbh its made you look like a knob


 
i was thinking the same, just a show off getting attention.

is it even fair to piss of a pede to bite ya ?? or what ever you did to make the poor buger bite ya.

i hate the things but i wouldnt want to piss it off hurt it or anything.

big attention seeker me thinks


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

SiUK said:


> but what is "mild"


*In my opinion*, a mild bite would be characterised by purely localised effects, such as in my case.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> *In my opinion*, a mild bite would be characterised by purely localised effects, such as in my case.


which in all due respect is what is considered true for pedes anyway.


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## clockworkorange (May 30, 2007)

Phark said:


> We all know that anaphylactic reactions from centipede bites are possible. In fact many allergens can give rise to anaphylactic reactions. This is, however, irrelevant to my point, which is - bites from the species, _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_, are generally mild.
> [/left]


Hey, Phark, I posted these references as guidelines and general info for people interested in the subject. In this frame, I believe that my post is relevant. I do believe like you that _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_, generally, delivers mild bites compared to some other _subspinipes ssp._


Mika


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> Very true there. However bite reports in general are hardly scientific either. They only tell about a bite from that particular animal, on that person at that point in time. However they do give a real world representation of bites. In this case however the bite was forced. Any time this is done in tested conditions a stringent code of ethics would be followed or it wouldn't be accepted.
> 
> I follw your point here, but that it almost touching on the actual method of science itself. You apply the individual logic to anything; for example, my harvestmen I study could act in a completely different way to all other harvestmen in the UK. However, in the absense of data to explicitly suggest they do, then we assume they behave in a manner similar to behaviour observed in other studies - as a _general_ rule.
> 
> ...


Indeed, this has went on for ages...


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

sandwell-x said:


> i was thinking the same, just a show off getting attention.
> 
> is it even fair to piss of a pede to bite ya ?? or what ever you did to make the poor buger bite ya.
> 
> ...


Slander me ONE more time?

I did not - repeat, did not - "piss it off" or otherwise hurt it to make it bite me.

This is what I did:

I offered it a prekilled cricket; it accepted it and began chewing. I immediately began coaxing the pede onto the top of my right hand. Afterwards I hastily removed the cricket from the pede's grip in one swift motion, and the pede's instant reaction was to bite me 3 times at the base of my index finger.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Phark said:


> I repeat - I do not live in the United Kingdom; therefore, I am not bound by its laws. I thought an intellectual like you would grasp that fact easily enough. Looks like I was wrong.


And an intellectual like you should realise that as your posting on a British forum so that sort of behavior isnt accepted so your going to receive flack for it. General consesnsus and all that.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Lucifus said:


> And an intellectual like you should realise that as your posting on a British forum so that sort of behavior isnt accepted so your going to receive flack for it. General consesnsus and all that.


Was I expected to know British law before I registered here?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

I think the frog issue is somewhat irrelevent to this post surely?

Lucifius: I hate to say it, but if that offends you then please dont ever join any american societies for exotic pets. Ive seen live mice fed to piranhas. Its not nice, but it happens. I dont agree with it either, but i'm not going to let i bias my opinion in this instance. 

At least in this case, it is a pest species that is likely to be killed anyway, so it may be marginally more acceptable (at least IMO its better to use something in death than to simply kill it and disgard it).


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## Oliver Dodds (Apr 26, 2008)

Phark said:


> Yesterday I set about trying to get bitten by one of my 5-to-6-inch long _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_. I handled one, got it onto my right hand. It must have decided I smelled like food, because it proceeded to bite me 3 times in 3 different places at the base of my right index finger. I gave it perhaps 10 seconds of bite time. Because of the 3 bites there were and still are 6 puncture wounds, 1 of which began to bleed a little. Initial pain was sharp, but that was probably the mechanical pain caused by the fangs. I quickly put the pede back in the tank, and soon the puncture wounds turned into white, slightly raised lumps, and there was a constant sharp pain as well as a tingling feeling. However the pain was manageable. By now it has been almost 12 hours since the incident and there is no more pain or swelling.
> 
> Tonight I would like to try getting bitten again to confirm the symptoms. It must be noted that this pede bit me THREE times and had its fangs in my skin for almost 10 seconds, and that it is over 13cm in length.


I thought you were accidently bitten whilst trying to 'stroke' your pede the other day. That doesnt sound like an experiment, it sounds like an accident...:whistling2:

Refrence: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/223293-got-tagged-one-my-new.html

Quote: 


Phark said:


> No worries mate, it's been nearly one and a half hours since the bite. All the pain has subsided; it was very manageable to begin with. I think this episode, coupled with many other people's experiences, proves that centipede bites are simply over-hyped.
> 
> 
> Because it was stupid of me. Alright alright - I tried to stroke the centipede.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

GRB said:


> I think the frog issue is somewhat irrelevent to this post surely?
> 
> Lucifius: I hate to say it, but if that offends you then please dont ever join any american societies for exotic pets. Ive seen live mice fed to piranhas. Its not nice, but it happens. I dont agree with it either, but i'm not going to let i bias my opinion in this instance.
> 
> *At least in this case, it is a pest species that is likely to be killed anyway, so it may be marginally more acceptable* (at least IMO its better to use something in death than to simply kill it and disgard it).


Yes. Lucifus, for a fact, house geckos are everywhere here, especially in kitchens of houses. At night, they come alive, annoying occupants with their calls (yes most geckos are nocturnal and do communicate vocally) and defecating anywhere they damn please.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

live feeding is neither here nor there in this discussion


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Oliver Dodds said:


> I thought you were accidently bitten whilst trying to 'stroke' your pede the other day. That doesnt sound like an experiment, it sounds like an accident...:whistling2:


That was a separate incident. You seriously need to learn to read in detail. Let me teach you how.

From that thread I posted earlier - 

"Just got bitten by one of them on my right thumb"

And now, go to the first page of this thread and look at the pictures I posted. Does the red, swollen area look like it's on my thumb?

In fact, in the first picture, you can see the red marks on the thumb, which were the results of that earlier bite, which was wholly accidental. Do you get it now?


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## Oliver Dodds (Apr 26, 2008)

Phark said:


> That was a separate incident. You seriously need to learn to read in detail.


 How coincidental that you were 'tagged by accident' the same day you 'tried an experiment'
Your an attention seeking fool, and I very much doubt trying to big-up yourself on a forum by saying you were bitten on purpose will bode well with people.
Now wheres the part I was supposed to read in detail?:lol2:


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## Oliver Dodds (Apr 26, 2008)

Just noticed also, you say it was feeding on a cricket then you removed the cricket and it got you.
Surely it would have injected almost no venom into your hand if it was merely having some food?
Try holding it and squeezing a leg, Im willing to bet you will suffer more then a little red patch to be fair.
Just my two cents though.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Oliver Dodds said:


> How coincidental that you were 'tagged by accident' the same day you 'tried an experiment'
> Your an attention seeking fool, and I very much doubt trying to big-up yourself on a forum by saying you were bitten on purpose will bode well with people.
> Now wheres the part I was supposed to read in detail?:lol2:


I'm sorry, but you're the fool here. A big one at that.

Let me teach you how.

From that thread I posted earlier - 

"Just got bitten by one of them on my right thumb"

And now, go to the first page of this thread and look at the pictures I posted. Does the red, swollen area look like it's on my thumb?

In fact, in the first picture, you can see the red marks on the thumb, which were the results of that earlier bite, which was wholly accidental. Do you get it now?


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

This thread has proven interesting to say the least, and I think there are valid points from each side of the argument. 

Personally, I think the experiement it's self was somewhat valid (if underdocumented), and can provide useful information. But on the other hand, I feel that the way it was carried out, and has been presented, is somewhat irresponsible. Seeing as Scolopendra venom contains proteins (unlike tarantula venom), then it is certainly possible to have an allergic reaction, which although unlikely, could have proven disaterous.

All I can gather from this "bite report" is that the OP was bitten, his hand got red, and he lived. If anything, I would have liked to have read about body temps, pain levels, numbness, swelling, breathing problems, and pulse rates etc., all at timed intervals. I would also have liked to have known what precautions were made before hand. I.e. were any antihistamines taken before hand, or on hand if neccesary. Was the OP alone for the duration, or was someone there in case of emergency? Were the emergency services or a doctor notified before hand to prevent delays in case of emergency. And I would have also liked to have read the original intentions. Was it out of curiosity, for a paper, or contribute to already well established bite reports?

Posting it in this fashion I think is not the right course of action. I find there are more "newbies" to invert keeping on this forum, than any other that I frequent. And I do feel that presenting it this way could give the wrong impression. If anything it should have been correctly documented with the appropriate saftey precautions listed, in a *stickied* bite report section. I won't say that I'm concerned this will promote handling, but I am concerened that it would go some way to supporting the idea that handling a scolopendra isn't all *that* bad.

I see the OP's intentions, and from a point of view, applaud his "bravery", but I think it should have been more well structured and thought out, before executing the "experiment" and presenting his findings.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Danhalen said:


> This thread has proven interesting to say the least, and I think there are valid points from each side of the argument.
> 
> Personally, I think the experiement it's self was somewhat valid (if underdocumented), and can provide useful information. But on the other hand, I feel that the way it was carried out, and has been presented, is somewhat irresponsible. Seeing as Scolopendra venom contains proteins (unlike tarantula venom), then it is certainly possible to have an allergic reaction, which although unlikely, could have proven disaterous.
> 
> ...


Thats a very eloquent post, +1!


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Oliver Dodds said:


> Just noticed also, you say it was feeding on a cricket then you removed the cricket and it got you.
> Surely it would have injected almost no venom into your hand if it was merely having some food?
> Try holding it and squeezing a leg, Im willing to bet you will suffer more then a little red patch to be fair.
> Just my two cents though.


If there was no venom injected, how do you explain the onset of sharp pain after, and not during, the 10 seconds it had its fangs in my skin? How do you also explain the tingling sensation I felt after the bite? If it did not want to inject venom, why did it bite me THREE times, leaving behind SIX puncture wounds, one of which began to bleed?


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## Oliver Dodds (Apr 26, 2008)

Phark said:


> If there was no venom injected, how do you explain the onset of sharp pain after, and not during, the 10 seconds it had its fangs in my skin? How do you also explain the tingling sensation I felt after the bite? If it did not want to inject venom, why did it bite me THREE times, leaving behind SIX puncture wounds, one of which began to bleed?


I think its you that needs to learn how to read.
I said "almost no venom" not none.
This thread is fast going nowhere, and is turning into pointless posts, so im out before it gets locked.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Danhalen said:


> This thread has proven interesting to say the least, and I think there are valid points from each side of the argument.
> 
> Personally, I think the experiement it's self was somewhat valid (if underdocumented), and can provide useful information. But on the other hand, I feel that the way it was carried out, and has been presented, is somewhat irresponsible. Seeing as Scolopendra venom contains proteins (unlike tarantula venom), then it is certainly possible to have an allergic reaction, which although unlikely, could have proven disaterous.
> 
> ...


No medication taken prior to or after the bites. How many times do I have to reiterate my point that _I did this to lend support to my hypothesis that the venom of this centipede is generally mild_?

Tell you what. You give me a proper, structured "scaffold" for a proper bite report, and I will try to induce a bite again.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Phark said:


> _I did this to lend support to my hypothesis that the venom of this centipede is generally mild_?


which in fairness this "experiment" on its own didnt prove even slightly, for the reasons posted further back in the thread.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

*/abandons ship*

I think all that needs to be said has been. Its been interesting, I hope it doesnt turn into insult slinging...


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## Danhalen (Jun 6, 2008)

Phark said:


> No medication taken prior to or after the bites. How many times do I have to reiterate my point that _I did this to lend support to my hypothesis that the venom of this centipede is generally mild_?


Yes, you have made that point, but how many people who read this thread are going to pay attention to what species of centipede you were bitten by? And more to the point, I don't see how it's adding particularly to the general hypothesis? If you want to contribute your findings, I think it would be a good idea if you were to abandon this thread and start a new.

I think the right course of action would be to contact the moderators, and request an invert bite report section be constructed. Wherein I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread, documenting as much as you can about the actual bite, and the effects.

However, I would leave out the fact it was an intentional bite. This would only detract from your original idea of contributing information.


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## Phark (Jul 1, 2008)

Danhalen said:


> Yes, you have made that point, but how many people who read this thread are going to pay attention to what species of centipede you were bitten by? And more to the point, I don't see how it's adding particularly to the general hypothesis? If you want to contribute your findings, I think it would be a good idea if you were to abandon this thread and start a new.
> 
> I think the right course of atcion would be to contact the moderators, and request an invert bite report section be constructed. Wherein I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread, documenting as much as you can about the actual bite, and the effects.
> 
> However, I would leave out the fact it was an intentional bite. This would only detract from your original idea of contributing information.


I think telling people it was intentional served to strengthen my stand that I did so in order to see and "analyse", for lack of a better term, the effects of a bite.

Anyway, I thank you for your input; your two posts have certainly been among the most constructive in this entire thread. If/when I get bitten again, I'll try getting as much information as I can, make a "draft", and consult you before posting. How's that? I am serious, by the way.


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## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

If you really must do this again, get somebody to be present at the time who can over see it, keep a good record, maybe video document parts of it.
Temperatures, heart rate, swelling pain on the 1-10 scale etc etc


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## C_Strike (Feb 20, 2007)

SiUK said:


> you cannot rely on a sketchy test of one case of a bite on one person, its known that people have had pretty serious bites from centipedes some people dont, theres people that have been bitten by a monocled cobra and had minor localised effects that doesnt mean they arnt dangerous.






Lucifus said:


> *sigh* The test is inconclusive and stand alone at best, if you want to test it properly you need testing on a variety of people of different age groups and genders. Let alone the dosage has to be controlled as we *dont know *how much was injected. Its very possible he received a mild dose as we know centipedes can control the amount injected. Prefribly with lab work (blood samples etc) to go along with it. Let alone follow up studys as some venom can actually effect people long after the initial exposure. Theirs a Caterpillar out there that causes organ failure up to a year after the initial exposure to its venom, pokeys causing muscle degridation up to six months after etc etc ad nausium.


true, but there has to be a first person.. i know he isnt, but equally with a broad spectrum of bite reporters of varying sizes, ages blahblah an amalgamation of figures and info would be totally relevant and so helpful. Equally simply browsing them will put a picture in your mind.



GRB said:


> *sighs*.
> 
> Yes, thank you for pointing out what is already known to me, and missing the point of my entire post.
> 
> ...


A men brother! lol


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> a bit unusual but i dont really see too much of a problem. Look At Caco on AB, MANY people have been able to better understand the effects on humans.. we should all know LD50 tables are worked on mice and rats which obviously have different morphology.
> Essentially this info is a bite report.. If he wants to get bitten..fine..
> If he writes it up and shows the report then its benefitial imo..... as he has.. though this forum will only loose it into the archives


That's what i was getting at, im not saying what is wrong and right but did say that had he documented it and written up as a bite report for publications that is plausible, but making a thread on a forum like this seems like a lost cause.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

C_Strike; lol! I think what I forgot to mention was that the literature is usually boring too! :lol2: So much taxonomy....bring on the behavioural ecology!


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## Willyleigh (May 25, 2008)

This thread has restored my interest in this board. 
There have been far too many "What shall I get as my first T?" and "My T hasn't eaten for 2 days, what's wrong" or "oops a cricket escaped" that it has been driving me mad.

This thread has made for some interesting reading.


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