# If you don't know......



## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

If you see a topic on here and you don't KNOW the answer can you stop guessing please.

Since i've been back on the amount of blatantly bo**ocks information i've seen is worrying. There seems to be a lot of people either spouting complete nonsense that has just been guessed or they are using second hand info that they haven't quite understood when they heard it so added their own twist.

If you don't know something as FACT or through your own experience then either keep it to yourself or state your source. If you cause a problem through a desire to increase your post count or just for the sake of speaking then i'd guess you are going to feel pretty crappy.

Not to mention the fact that nobody is disputing this stuff.

I know you all hate confrontation but turning a blind eye to incorrect information spreading can be dangerous for others that read and see something as correct because nobody has disputed it.

Presumably, if you don't want confrontation then you could report the post and get it sorted anonymously? I'm sure if you reported it and stated clear sources as to why it is wrong and that you have reported it to save confrontation the mods would be helpful.

rant over


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi all,

Reticulatus Don't mind the rant,it's a free world but no need for swareing.

You don't ack like this on the Ratsnake Foundation Forum don't do it on this one.

If you don't like it don't come on this forum.

slither61:snake::snake::snake::snake:


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

slither61 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Reticulatus Don't mind the rant,it's a free world but no need for swareing.
> 
> ...


If this forum continually gets filled with junk then the more knowledgeable posters may well stop posting. It is only a matter of time before incorrect advice on here kills someones pet.

Advice given should be correct, this forum becaosme USELESS as a resource if you can't trust 2/3 posts written becaus people are spouting crap about things they have no clue on.

Dan is dead right, if you don't KNOW what you are saying is correct keep it behind your teeth!


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

thats the problem dan, there are people on here that know more than me, but its all from books.. so when they give out info its often right, but not often from experience. makes me laugh, they know who they are lol.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

slither61 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Reticulatus Don't mind the rant,it's a free world but no need for swareing.
> 
> ...


"Slither61", you are probably correct - there may not have been a justifyable reason for swearing. I did lose the plot somewhat when writing that post however, i'm sure we have all done that at times. It's also worth noting that i did place the stars in the word myself, the post was not edited.

As for your comment on the way i act. It is no act, i am who i am and make no appologies for this. How i act here is exactly the same as anywhere else. 
Perhaps the difference is that when information is disseminated through and on the Ratsnake Foundation website it is correct and not based on hearsay or just plain old fashioned guesswork?

As for your last line. How about you add me to your blocked list, that way you do not have to read my posts and i can be content in the knowledge that if i am annoyed it wont have a direct effect on yourself.


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> "Slither61", you are probably correct - there may not have been a justifyable reason for swearing. I did lose the plot somewhat when writing that post however, i'm sure we have all done that at times. It's also worth noting that i did place the stars in the word myself, the post was not edited.
> 
> As for your comment on the way i act. It is no act, i am who i am and make no appologies for this. How i act here is exactly the same as anywhere else.
> Perhaps the difference is that when information is disseminated through and on the Ratsnake Foundation website it is correct and not based on hearsay or just plain old fashioned guesswork?
> ...


Hi Dan,

I agree with what you say in your post, I don't think it will be iradicated because people will still do it.
I think the best so far feeding a Heterodon nasicus crickets????. All you can do is read and form your own opinion.

Dan I have no intention of blocking you you have posted some good topics on this forum which I have read with intrest.

I said what I said in my last line, that if the misinformation gets you that cross I would not bother with it.

slither61 :snake::snake::snake::snake:


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## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

Mason said:


> If this forum continually gets filled with junk then the more knowledgeable posters may well stop posting. It is only a matter of time before incorrect advice on here kills someones pet.
> 
> Advice given should be correct, this forum becaosme USELESS as a resource if you can't trust 2/3 posts written becaus people are spouting crap about things they have no clue on.
> 
> Dan is dead right, if you don't KNOW what you are saying is correct keep it behind your teeth!


HI all

Mason if you read the post I agree with what Dan says, it was the swareing that I don't think people on an open forum have to read, you can put your points forward without swareing.

The best way to research is do your own research.

Mason you are right in one sence ,the even more knowledgeable people are not even members of forums they just don't want the hassel.

slither61:snake::snake::snake::snake:


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

I fully agree.

And when you do step in with a correction, then your a bully !

Cant win so yeah.

As nige says, theres too much 'book' knowledge out there, not to mention info on the internet thats wrong or misleading.

Theres nothing like experiance, but those with the experiance want to help, not get into a row over the who, whys, and what ifs.


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## CaseyM (Nov 8, 2006)

Well said Dan, nice to see you back btw :no1:


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## TtotheC (Mar 26, 2008)

Hence some of us are wise enough in our ignorance not to go handing out advice, even book advice. Though it does limit you somewhat to going "Awwww" at cute pictures.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

I didnt even notice the swearing :lol2:


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

I think a lot of people are put off posting I know I am as I put an article on about something only to have it slated by people who have kept a couple of reptiles a few months etc and are quoting directly from the lastest book.

I end up getting mad and theres a trend to look to books to much these days us old reptile keepers had to do everything from experience in those early years and books are invauable these days but you can't beat experience as far as I'm concened.

Seems 22 years reptile medical,import breeding and keeping stands for nothing these days!

Paula


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

purejurrasic said:


> I fully agree.
> 
> And when you do step in with a correction, then your a bully !
> 
> ...


that annoys me too, I think the next time people accuse folk of "jumping on them" or bullying they should stand back and realise that unless that incorrect information gets corrected then it's there as a searchable online resource for who knows how long. Also that once something is posted on the internet it's read by ten people and repeated by those ten people to another ten, who then repeat it to another ten (and so on) until all of a sudden it's illegal to feed live, you can't pick up a grass snake or an adder without being arrested and all the rest of it!

The next piece of crap info that gets given out could be the one to kill somones pet, I mean people post on these forums asking for advice when their pets in a critical state instead of going to the vets!

One day someone will be very, very glad that there are people on here like me (and Dan :lol who don't care what the general forum opinion of them and their attitude is because it will be someone like us who "dared" to "jump on" someone and point out they are talking crap.


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

reticulatus said:


> If you see a topic on here and you don't KNOW the answer can you stop guessing please.
> 
> Since i've been back on the amount of blatantly bo**ocks information i've seen is worrying. There seems to be a lot of people either spouting complete nonsense that has just been guessed or they are using second hand info that they haven't quite understood when they heard it so added their own twist.
> 
> ...


Ello..."Captain America" is back in town :whistling2:...

Tis the forum way, I am affraid...Keyboard experts and the like...

They start off sensible enough (newbies) then within 6 months of forum time (and 24 000 posts) they know it all...Once the forum circle is near completion, they then transcend into what I call "Forum Diva's".

Thats not to say, I personally havent learnt anything from this wonderful site, Ive learned heaps : victory:...you just gotta know were to look...T.T.8)


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

There are such things as "Good Books" though.

We spend a LOT of time on here telling people to research animals before they buy. Which means reading books !!!!

As well as book knowledge, there is a lot of out of date and just plain wrong knowledge out there too... not all experience is good experience. It's like driving. I would lay odds that were I to retake my driving test, I would probably have too many 'bad habits' to pass even though I have been driving for nearly 30 years. It does not make the way I drive right.

There is a balance of book knowledge, experience and knowing the right people to talk to. If I read something in a book like the rat snake monograph by Schulz... it would certainly trump anything I heard on here simply because the book is an amalgamation of experience of the species involved by people who know those species... but in a book.

Disrespecting information simply because it is in a book is just as bad as jumping up and down and shouting everyone must do it my way because I have 'experience'.


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## Danezie (May 11, 2008)

> As nige says, theres too much 'book' knowledge out there, not to mention info on the internet thats wrong or misleading.


not to try and dampen this thread but...arent we here taking advice regarding health and care of our pets.. so surely you saying what you did only makes this a hypocritical post and that we shudnt digest what we are reading.. as it is internet based.

people might know they are making a mistake(s) unless someone says .. but then even if someone gets something wrong... people are straight down their throats degrading them.. which is wrong.. since when did shouting and mouthing off get anyone in life?


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

ok.. excelletn thread... interesting read so far 

the simple short answer is..

to the first point.. if someone THINKS they know they are right.. then it cant be called GUESSING lol
and to them its truth...


the long reply is.....


so when two very respected breeders/ keepers.. long time reptile people totally 100% disagree.. then who do we believe..????. ive seen people totally disagree with one another on here within threads... and their internet buddies support one side or the other,,. and everyone argue .... it becomes like a penalty shoot out at the final of the world cup.. but then irrespective of what avenue our hobbies take people were born to disagree... its the way we all are.. we LOVE to think we dont need help.. we love to think we are right... well not everyoen but a LOT of people on here can never ever admit their faults..

to me thats total weakness of character...

anyway back to the case in point...


I dont agree with taking snakes out in the grass to roam around in the sun.. to me thats asking for trouble.. they could get lost... or in general there could be other animals crap etc in the grass... anyway... if someone else wants to do it im not gunna jump all over them and tell them its wrong.. its up to them surely.. but there are some aspects of husbandry thats obvious

beardies NEED UV

Cresties NEED humidity..

obviously these things are basics and obvious and you cant really disagree..

the issue arises when theres difference in opinion...


Making mistakes with animals.. and their care is probably part of the learning curve.. if anyone here is willing to say they have never made one mistake ( no matter how big or small) i personally would be willing to say they were probably telling a big fat fib!!!!

I always turn to a guy i know whos been keeping reptiles for 22 years.. he isnt forum or internet based.. hes in his mid 40s and he always has a lot of time to asnwer any query without trying to get one up.. and if hes not sure of something he will do his best to find out for me.. i trust him 100%.. luckily he lives fairly close to me and is never involved in any forum crap ( well done to him i say  )

my uncles been keeping snakes since i was a kid and i would personally NOT trust him... so there we go... hes had snakes 30 years and i think he talks total pants and he wont listen to anyone... so yes he has the YEARS of experience but how do u differentiate a great keeper of 2 years and a crappy keeper fo 30 years... not easy for a new keeper is it???

I heard recently of one proposed crested gecko whizz kid ( suppsed whizz kid i may add) saying they keep their crests over their eyes when they feel grmupy and open when they are happy,. when in fact they do the former when they are sleeping and the latter when they are awake...

so you see.. its not always the long term keepers that know more... when i gently corrected this person she was a tad embaressed and we both had a laugh.. but noone got angry or arguementative...

it all becomes a bit catch 22.... what people need to remember is that often people are giving the advice they THINK is right.. they dont mean to give crappy advice necessarily.. they are doing it out of their own newness ( or just be being simply human and getting it wrong) not specifically to try and detrimentally ruin someones collection with something they have read in a book..

gads ive seen bigger more respected breeders on and off this forum making shocking mistakes... what i find amusing is the people who think because they have been keeping and breeding 3 years or 5 years or whatever more they must KNOW more..

often you find its people who have taken in rescues and dealt with the serious problems of mistreated and stressed or sick animals that have to find out everything on their feet... they need to learn quick.. the exact husbandry to make sure a sick lizard gets the perfect environment to get well in.. learn about meds.. possible health issues and herp vet visits etc.. deal with stress in an animal is gravid.. or egg bound.. mouth rot... dislocated limbs.. and many more issues rescues can have... problems of non-eating and supplementation etc... visits to herp vets and then trying to find out way more indepthly what it takes to get everything as right as can be from that minute on for that particular animal.. that type of expertise is also important... and is often overlooked and the breeders who churn out humndreds of hatchlings a year ( or even just import them) are seen to know more.. it takes nothing to import 100 snakes.. thats hardly expertise.. its just monetary transactions..

so whos an expert... i know many people who claim to be..

personally im not... but i would try my best.. and thats all anyone can do..







not all books are bad either... some however are totally horrific and very conflicting..

so yeah although i agree with some of what you said reticulatus.. its a far more grey area than i think wed all like it to be. we all like to think were right.. the chances of that happening 100% of the time though are slim to nil.. and it takes a bigger person to say sorry and admit something wasnt right than an idiot who wil keep banging on they can never be wrong ...but we al need help at times.. both with our aimals and with our knowledge.. thats why people want to help give advice etc... theres alos pletny of people on here when you do admit youre wrong and appologise that will hang you out to dry. that attitude though only makes them look like pathetic playground bullies..

often the ones who PRETNED to be nice.. and pretend to know everything are the most highly insecure people I have met..

I know several peopel on here ( and i mean stuff about their private lives.. very private i may ) and when you tot it up.. they are total wrecks.. but pretend on here that when they hide behind their animals they are arrogant know it alls..
liek they are really sorted and perfect.. when in actual fact its a pile of pants...

none of us are perfect..


id rather just be me... warts and all... mistakes to boot.. and learn as much as I can... not just from people but from my animals.. by observing.. taking notes.. trying various minor temp changes feeding changes and noting it all down.. do i sound a geek about my animals??? probaby i am..

we tell people to research ... they do so then they are told they are talking shit.. no wonder they dont liek sticking around here.. i apprecitate some of the stuff is GUFF... and not everyone wil accpet that when they are told.. but sometimes its the WAY you do it.. not WHAT u are actually trying to convey...




personally i dont mind being wrong sometimes.. at least that way i feel safe im learning... even if its by my mistakes...


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## TAXI (Apr 5, 2008)

Must admit being a bit of a new-bi on here & only keeping reps for 2yrs,i've learnt loads of quite a few of you CHEERS,yes i have made 1 or 2 cock ups ,& i've been put straight on a few things which i do't mind i'm here to learn as you all did at one point.
But on the other side a few on here do kind of jump down your throat straight of the bat,once & a while a bit of patience wouldn't go a miss.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

hmm i realised i could have cut my post by about a million words..


just cos u think u know doesnt mean u do.. but just cos u dont know....... doesnt mean u realise it !! :whistling2:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Have to agree, there is a lot of misinformation, the one on feeding crickets to a hognose a prime example!!


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

No one knows it all although some people on here think they do! I think most people myself included learn by their mistakes.I have to agree with Taxi once and a while a bit of patience wouldn't go a miss :2thumb:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Not often one of my rants makes 3 pages :lol2:



One thing in Sparkles epic i noticed was the comment of people thinking they are correct so they say what ever they have to say as fact. This is actually what i would like to see stop. If you THINK you're right then check before you state it as fact. Chances are, if you can't find resources to back up what your saying then it probably is not right.
If you find some back up then you KNOW you are correct and if disputed you can show people that if you're wrong then so are your sources.

As for these people that read a book and know everything. Yes, they drive me nuts too. My problem is that they have read a book and learned the words but don't understand what they mean. For example you can read in many places that male retics will fight when housed together, but you really have no idea what this means until it happens right infront of you.

Then the whole subject of how to treat these people has come up again. Tell me something, would you still be calling for patience if your hognose died because you tried to feed it crickets and it died? 
It's very easy to call for patience when the results don't effect you directly.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

was a tad epic wasnt it LOL

thats the problem with something like reptiles though reticulatus...

heres a true example..

my uncles kept snakes for 30 years.. hes a twat and I KNOW he keeps them wrong..

we dont even talk now.. i have no respect for him.. BUT say i did.. say id listened to him without asking others or checking any resources at all..


what then...

now to surmise...

do i listen to a hells angel twat that keeps his snakes wrong... or do i try to find out what the right thing is..

some people with less proactive ability or desire to learn would just listen to the first thing they were told believe it and pass it on..

reptile keeping unfortuantely does not demand an IQ test.... it should.. but it doesnt..


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## DJH1 (Nov 13, 2007)

You definately upped the swearing stakes. You forgot your astrisks! Hate to be diplomatic but i agree with elements of both sides. Making misinformation extinct is important, but there are ways of putting things accross without appearing to attack. I made a goon of myself on a post shortly after joining, by gobbing off on a subject i'd heard about second hand (drunk too). Since then i pretty much stopped contributing. After reading a post by ez4pro the other day i decided i've got to chip in- i've gained a lot from this site and want to. But i'm gonna keep my mush shut unless i 'know,' and have checked!


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## Harrison (Feb 29, 2008)

If I know the answer I'll say it and if I have no idea then I won't. But if I think I might have the answer but I'm not 100% sure, I will say what I think but explain afterwards that I may be wrong and to take it with a pinch of salt. Then I ask if someone else can confirm or deny what I have said. I'm happy dealing with posts in that manner. But I'll keep my mouth shut if I can't just don't have the answers.


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

You won't stop people putting their opinions down rightly or wrongly.

If people have half a brain they will collate the info theiy are looking for from many sources on the web.

If they just do it here then that's simply stupid.

No one, not even you has all the RIGHT answers.


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