# Leos, Sunglow to Banana Blizzard



## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Sorry I'm so dense when it comes to leos.

My male sunglow is - tangerine super hypo x tangerine tremper albino and is super bright!

The female I'm thinking about is a banana blizzard.

Predicted offspring would be..? Super hypos? Het for albino? Or something else?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Does your "sunglow" have any black pigment? I'd always heard that a "Sunglow" is a visual tangerine albino with reduced spotting (so that the tangerine colour takes up more of the body - either het or homozygous hypo). If your sunglow had one superhypo parent and one non-hypo just-albino parent, that would make him genetically hypo (heterozygous hypo). 

But if you cross a visual albino to a visual banana blizzard (and the banana blizzard is a REAL one - i.e. homozygous blizzard, homozygous patternless) you will get animals who are het for albino, blizzard and patternless. 

Adding the codominant hypo (super hypo is the homozygous form) into the mix means you'll get some visual hypos who are triple het and some visual normal triple hets, unless your banana blizzard carries hypo underneath the 'patternless' body colouration.


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## cjreptiles (Nov 13, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Does your "sunglow" have any black pigment? I'd always heard that a "Sunglow" is a visual tangerine albino with reduced spotting (so that the tangerine colour takes up more of the body - either het or homozygous hypo). If your sunglow had one superhypo parent and one non-hypo just-albino parent, that would make him genetically hypo (heterozygous hypo).
> 
> But if you cross a visual albino to a visual banana blizzard (and the banana blizzard is a REAL one - i.e. homozygous blizzard, homozygous patternless) you will get animals who are het for albino, blizzard and patternless.
> 
> Adding the codominant hypo (super hypo is the homozygous form) into the mix means you'll get some visual hypos who are triple het and some visual normal triple hets, unless your banana blizzard carries hypo underneath the 'patternless' body colouration.


I presume what was meant by "tangerine super hypo x tangerine tremper albino" was that these are the traits exhibited in the gecko, not that those are the two parents (grandparents, though). That would have to be the case for it to be a sunglow anyway.

As for hypomelanism being a co-dominant morph, that's not quite true - it is a selectively bred trait, which is not under the influence of a single gene as something like the albino or patternless trait is. However, as you rightly say, this does mean you should get some hypomelanistic offspring.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

cjreptiles said:


> As for hypomelanism being a co-dominant morph, that's not quite true - it is a selectively bred trait, which is not under the influence of a single gene as something like the albino or patternless trait is. However, as you rightly say, this does mean you should get some hypomelanistic offspring.


Recent breeding trials seem to indicate that the Ray Hine-strain Super Hypo IS a codominant trait - or at least it very much behaves like one...


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## cjreptiles (Nov 13, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Recent breeding trials seem to indicate that the Ray Hine-strain Super Hypo IS a codominant trait - or at least it very much behaves like one...


Interesting. Has this been generally accepted, as you would get pretty much the same results whether hypomelanism was co-dominant or selectively bred from what I understand of that thread, so I can't really see what it proves. Also, is it just Hine super hypos believed to be dominant or all? I still think it is selectively bred, but certainly an interesting link, thanks.


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## cjreptiles (Nov 13, 2006)

cjreptiles said:


> Interesting. Has this been generally accepted, as you would get pretty much the same results whether hypomelanism was co-dominant or selectively bred from what I understand of that thread, so I can't really see what it proves. Also, is it just Hine super hypos believed to be dominant or all? I still think it is selectively bred, but certainly an interesting link, thanks.


Incidentally when you/I say co-dominant (as some leo traits are referred to, such as Macks), we normally mean incompletely dominant...although with these it could be co-dominance at work. My opinion is still they are a line-bred trait for the time being.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

cjreptiles said:


> Incidentally when you/I say co-dominant (as some leo traits are referred to, such as Macks), we really mean incompletely dominant.


Good point. It IS incomplete dominant, since we're not getting a 'blend' form, we're getting three separate phenotypes. 

As for the hypos, I'm pretty sure it's JUST the Ray Hine line that are considered an incomplete-dominant trait.

I've done some breeding with a Super hypo, a patternless I suspect to be hypo and their super hypo daughter ... and it definitely seems to be something single-gene-related from what I can tell. I'm going to be keeping closer track of the Superhypo daughter's offspring this year to see if ALL her babies are hypo when bred to a non-hypo male and if she produces anything that would be considered a super ...


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## cjreptiles (Nov 13, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Good point. It IS incomplete dominant, since we're not getting a 'blend' form, we're getting three separate phenotypes.
> 
> As for the hypos, I'm pretty sure it's JUST the Ray Hine line that are considered an incomplete-dominant trait.
> 
> I've done some breeding with a Super hypo, a patternless I suspect to be hypo and their super hypo daughter ... and it definitely seems to be something single-gene-related from what I can tell. I'm going to be keeping closer track of the Superhypo daughter's offspring this year to see if ALL her babies are hypo when bred to a non-hypo male and if she produces anything that would be considered a super ...


In this case, thinking about it, a hypo is really just a blend of super hypo and normal, so it could be co-dominance at work. Looking forward to seeing the results of you breeding project this year and onwards :thumb:


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I just thought I would add that this is a Ray Hine male and the picture of my male (taken by Ray - I haven't gotten around to it yet) is attached below i can't figure out how to resize it though!!










I also have some chocolate albino females that I might give to him, just to see how it goes.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Ahhh, yeah, he's definitely a Sunglow as I understand them - and looks like he's a super hypo to boot. In which case (if your female is a real banana blizzard - a patternless blizzard) you'd get:

100% hypo who are 100% het for albino, blizzard and patternless.


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