# help please - Ray Hine :)



## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

right i need help, i need to buy some leos from ray hine and i did have his mobile number but ive lost it and cant find it on my phone as it has been repaired and they deleted everything . so i was just wondering if anyone knows his mobile if they can pm me it or text him and tell him Brad wants ur number .?


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

You're selling your ill leo's because you can't afford to pay for them to go to a vet, but yet you can buy new leo's? You shouldn't have animals.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

What :O i never sold them i rehomed some to a loverly couple who will take amazing care of them.

and im getting money in my account in a few weeks just for vet fees for my reptiles.

just answer what ive asked for.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

Rehomed then, it doesn't matter. If you can't afford vets then you shouldn't have the animal.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

of for god sake just answer my question, then when i get some geckos and if yyyou ever see the ones i hav produced you will be stunned. i havent got the time for people who try to argue like you.

i can afford vet fees now i didnt last week coz my nan was on holz.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

What does the gecko's you've produced have to do with anything? You could buy 2 decent morph ones, keep them badly, breed from them and end up with nice babies, but that doesn't prove anything.

You shouldn't be buying more gecko's if you can't afford vet fees.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

I CAN AFFORD VET FEES NOW¬!!!! end this little onvo and get back to the question i asked. thankyou.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

luke123 said:


> You're selling your ill leo's because you can't afford to pay for them to go to a vet, but yet you can buy new leo's? You shouldn't have animals.


Totally agree - although you never sold them, you rehomed them knowing full well they were ill.

It's actually against the law to withhold treatment to an ill animal, there is absolutely no way you should be looking at buying more animals IMO....


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

oh for god sake dont anyone ever listen .

i rehomed them to a couple, and i told them that they were unwell, and they offered to take them and do there best. which im sure will.

i can now afford vet fees as my nan has said that she will lend me £1000.

now can we get back to the qustion i initially asked.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

Big Red One said:


> Totally agree - although you never sold them, you rehomed them knowing full well they were ill.
> 
> It's actually against the law to withhold treatment to an ill animal, there is absolutely no way you should be looking at buying more animals IMO....


Not forgetting that the last time he owed someone money, he had to sell some leos to pay off the debt, as per this thread. Given how his money situation varies so wildly, let's hope that if the new leos become ill, they don't do it when he's skint again or owes someone some dosh.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

leopardgeckomad said:


> oh for god sake dont anyone ever listen .
> 
> i rehomed them to a couple, and i told them that they were unwell, and they offered to take them and do there best. which im sure will.
> 
> ...


It's not a case of listening - it's a case of putting your money where it's needed.

Everyone has a responsibility to their animals, you can't just get rid as and when it suits. I posted on your rehome thread to say I wasn't having a go, but you seriously should not be looking at buying more animals (that's what they are - not toys.....) unless you can provide emergency veterinary treatment if required.
Also, as you still have no idea why the other leos were ill (it could be ANYTHING), bringing new animals into your home could be a very bad idea.

It has to be said I'm afraid.............


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

my freind has taken on my other reps that i thought were ill but they are all ok, and ive cleaned and discinfected every last inch of my reptile room  please i know im stupid at times but i do learn from my mistakes.

and the biggest mistake that coursed this was that i saw 2 baby ill (really skinny ) leopard geckos and i wanted to help them and then 3 of my geckos died. so ive discinfected the whole room and now im starting again


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## Geckogirl_88 (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi
Im not going to get on at you because how can i expect you to take on board wat i say if you think im attacking you lol.
So first off, its TOTALLY up to you waht you do with ur money and your time.
However, please dont get upset by my saying so, but although £1000 is a MASSIVE amount of money (can i have some please? lol), it is a one off finite sum, and unfortunately will run out eventually. I know the chances are that u will be able to get more by then, but what if u cant?
I know how attatched we can get to these animals, and so im worried at how upset you would be if for ANY reason, you had to sell/rehome one or if you lost one because you didnt have the vet money. I dont know about you, but as much as i love all my animals (and i do, A LOT lol), they are probably (now that uni's over) THE biggest source of stress in my LIFE! lol. Im always worrying about them even when they are totally healthy and happy, because i always want to do everything i can to make them even happier. 
Im worried that if something _were_ to go wrong and you didnt have the money for any reason, or if something else happened like before where a lot of them fell ill at once and it was too much money to find all in one place, you would be devastated, not to mention that the animals could suffer for it.
We all care about the animals here, but im worried about you too. If things went pear shaped again, can you really say you wouldnt be destraught?

Look out for them by looking out for urself.
If someone does want to give you money, maybe it would be worth asking them not to give you a lot right now, but to help you out with any unforseen expenses in the future should you need it. Otherwise, a svings account that you can only access in emergencies is also a good idea.

I know how tempting it is to have thousands of animals, believe me, id have them ALL if i could lol, but we have to think long term.

Hope you sort this out 
Good luck
x


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## Danbellini (Sep 29, 2008)

I love reptile keepers
We as a breed feel that we have a duty to rip on some and lick others' bums.
I agree with what has being said, but GOD I love this forum ^^

IMO

Dude, more leos could be a bad idea. Its up to you at the end of the day and if you get more they will be lovely im sure. But I've had the same kind of thing where I've got rid of some animals due to funding problems but WANTED MORE!! I mean, lets face it, this hobby is extremely eclectic
You get one lizard and you want another. Get another and you want 2 more. Get 2 more and you want a snake. And so on.
So I feel for ya, I know what its like to want another animal but for the time being I think stabilising funds would be the first thing to do.
Theres nothing wrong with yourself as a keeper and I think you know that too, so good luck and if/when you build up your collection again I look forward to seeing/hearing how it all goes.
IMO it doesnt matter what has happened in the past, just making sure that the next leos are healthy is the main thing as I have a feeling you'll get them anyway 
Good luck
:2thumb:


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

thankyou so much but im deffo getting some more leos because i love the reptile world, and i aint getting £1000 for anything my nan said its only for vet bills as i was devastated wen i lost my 3.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

So if the £1000 is for vets only, how can you afford more leo's, but not the vets for your old ones?


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

im only getting 3 from ray hine and he will do a deal..


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

wen a mod reads please remove this thread ...


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

> and the biggest mistake that coursed this was that i saw 2 baby ill (really skinny ) leopard geckos and i wanted to help them and then 3 of my geckos died. so ive discinfected the whole room and now im starting again


but without having had any of the sick ones tested or taken to the vets you DON'T know what affected and ultimately killed the leos! And quite frankly you wouldn't have lost your leos if correct quarentine proceedures were practised and vet treatment sought at the time.



Big Red One said:


> Totally agree - although you never sold them, you rehomed them knowing full well they were ill.
> 
> It's actually against the law to withhold treatment to an ill animal, there is absolutely no way you should be looking at buying more animals IMO....


ditto ~ when you set yourself up as a breeder (which the OP has done previously) then you owe it not only to potential customers but more importantly to the leos you own to provide them with the best care and health that is possible.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

But the money that's going to be spent on those three could have been spent on helping your pets. You should think about what you have now instead of what you may get in the future.


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

well i don't know what to say so i shall simply say 
SPOON
it does sicken me when i pay many many hundreds of pounds to try to save my poorly animals and folk like yourself see them as a desposable pet that can be palmed off to others as and when it starts getting tough tricky or expensive and the sad thing is if it had been a dog or cat the RSPCA would have jumped on yo ass like a ninja yet as its a reptile you seem to get away with it. in the interest of the animals welfair i think its probably best if you refrained from keeping anymore reptiles.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

If your nan lent you 1,000. then why are you buying more ?

You should be trying to pay her back.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

luke123 said:


> But the money that's going to be spent on those three could have been spent on helping your pets. You should think about what you have now instead of what you may get in the future.


i havent got any leos now  my freind took them and he said there eating fine and nothin seems wrong he has bred eptiles for 5 years.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i havent got any leos now  my freind took them and he said there eating fine and nothin seems wrong he has bred eptiles for 5 years.


 Maybe you should leave it that way, having no leo's.


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i havent got any leos now  my freind took them and he said there eating fine and nothin seems wrong he has bred eptiles for 5 years.


 i think this is in the best intrest of the animals imo, you clearly don't have the experience or common sence to care for animals that don't jump at you when they are poorly or hungry.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

I have Ray Hines number in my phone but I certainly wouldnt give it out without his permission. Im afraid with the OPs track record I wouldnt rush to get Rays permission to give his number out. I think his (and any other breeders) animals deserve better care than demonstrated previously by the OP.


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

Without having a go, I agree with the others here. Until you can afford to look after, including vet bills, then maybe you shouldn't get any more, esp as you did care for the others when they was sick. Untill you know what was wrong, you shouldn't get any more as it could happen again.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

I agree with Ginner and Mal here. Having paid a rather large vets bill myself it does annoy me when people see reptiles as disposable animals.

Borrowing £1000 probably isn't a smart move either, sounds like your Nan may be attempting to stop you nagging?

Take a breather, as you don't know what the problem was previously get rid of everything. Start again, buy the equipment slowly, ensure everything is perfect, then start saving for future vets bills. Once you have enough then look into getting back into it.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

Stop Going ON AT ME pleas i kno ive done wrong but ive o some money and my freind is taking care othmy other geckos..so just leave it.

i care about reptiles so much u wont understand its just that wen times are hard its hard, and i can afford to buy reptile food i buy too much sometimes .

JUST LEAVE IT NOW...ur just making me mad ...

ive done the best i can, the other geckos arnt ill, i just rehomed them so i can start breeding all from scratch and learn from my mistakes!


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i care about reptiles so much u wont understand its just that wen times are hard its hard, and i can afford to buy reptile food i buy too much sometimes


when times are hard....... you make sure that you have either savings, the ability to pay vet fees or a vet that can help out with payment plans..... youdon't rehome sick animals just so that you can buy more which is in effect what you have done.


> ive done the best i can, t*he other geckos arnt ill, i just rehomed them so i can start breeding all from scratch and learn from my mistakes!*


direct quote from your rehome post which directly contradicts what you have just said ~


leopardgeckomad said:


> i have 2 female ill leopard geckos for rehome, they are both 18months old and weigh 39-43g, they are getting skinnier and lost appetite, and they need to have a fecal test and maybe some medication, also one gecko has its eyes shut but when i put a little water in them the eyesopen for a little bit. these geckos really need to get to a reptile vet but i havent got the money.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> Stop Going ON AT ME pleas i kno ive done wrong but ive o some money and my freind is taking care othmy other geckos..so just leave it.
> 
> i care about reptiles so much u wont understand its just that wen times are hard its hard, and i can afford to buy reptile food i buy too much sometimes .
> 
> ...


 To be fair, I think you make a lot of the people you talk to mad with your stupidity. It's best on the animals that you don't buy them. Reptiles have the ability to need a lot more than food!


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

i aint going on anymore ive learnt from my mistake .


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i aint going on anymore ive learnt from my mistake .


no if you had learnt you would not buy anymore.

Just because Ray Hines sells his animal cheaper than a Vet consultation does mean you should leave it to others to fix what you broke and then start again..:whip:

TBH I think Ray Hines is just as bad for selling them so cheap, if hes selling in bulk to a Pet shop then so be it, but not 3 to a kid for the same stupid prices.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

erm im really not a stupid kid  just because ive messed up - doesnt mean im stupid ..im saving myself each week for vets bills and i cn get £5 a week, so if anything does happen i can get a vet payment plan thingy..

im really not stupid. you can all think what you want. oh and ive done silly things and in the past, but ive gotta move on,


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> erm im really not a stupid kid  just because ive messed up - doesnt mean im stupid ..im saving myself each week for vets bills and i cn get £5 a week, so if anything does happen i can get a vet payment plan thingy..
> 
> im really not stupid. you can all think what you want. oh and ive done silly things and in the past, but ive gotta move on,


i never called you stupid, but with all your posts i think its something you will have a hard time defending.:whistling2:


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

Slurm said:


> i never called you stupid, but with all your posts i think its something you will have a hard time defending.:whistling2:


i know but now i know how stupid i am, im going to start all over again, and my freind went to the vet yesterday with some leos because 1 more died yesterday and they said unless we get some fecals for every gecko its going to be over £300 and then treatment which me and my friend decided the best thing was to do was have them pts.

i just wanna get over it now as ive just had a sad phone call from him. and now im upset coz i feel like a bad breeder. i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

A good long hard think at what you are planning on doing is needed. You've just lost some leos therefore wait and decide what is the best move. You were trying to sell/rehome some as you said neither you nor your family had the money. Surely, its best to wait, suppose your nan decides that she needs the loan repaid? Also, £5 a week really doesn't go very far towards anything, least of all vet bills.


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


If you are saying you have learnt from your mistakes, then you'll had tests carried out on the other lizards to find out what was wrong so you can ensure it doesn't happen again to your new ones?

How do people know you are not going to do the same again? As you're saying you've gone for the easy opition of putting them all to sleep without trying to find out what was wrong or geting treatment?


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## simooshy (Mar 12, 2010)

I would wait until you get anymore leos, at least until you have enough money saved for vet bills. My longtail only cost £15, but has already cost £60 in vet bills, and at £5 a month, that's a year's saving...


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

I've tried to stay well away from the reply button on this thread but what I just read has completely astounded me!

Your gran is happy to give you a loan of £1000, yes? So why, when the leos you had in your care became ill did you not do everything you could to diagnose and hopefully treat whatever the problem was? A mate took them in for you, yet he wasn't prepared to get them tested or treated either?

£300 out of the £1000 could have been used to at least diagnose those geckos.

I'm sure many people here have come upon hard times where they have had to take a step back and have a serious think about how many animals they can provide for, you need to do this now. £5 a week pays for some of my animals food, it certainly wouldn't cover vet treatment.

Why not wait a couple of years until you are in a better position to be able to really provide for the animals? : victory:


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## Morphene (Jun 28, 2008)

Found his number using google. Also 3 threads by LGM too 

help please - *Ray Hine*  - Page 4‎ - 2 posts - 15 May 2010
help please - *Ray Hine* ‎ - 11 posts - 15 May 2010
*Ray Hine* Leopard Geckos - Any good?‎ - 11 posts - 5 Nov 2009
What i bought from *Ray Hine* Yesterday.‎ - 11 posts - 26 Aug 2009

That wasn't hard.

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> .....i just wanna get over it now as ive just had a sad phone call from him. and now im upset coz i feel like a bad breeder. i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


A _*good*_ breeder would have made sure that they had identified the cause of the health problem that affected these animals and paid for their treatment, if treatment was possible. No reputable breeder would contemplate bringing in new geckos when, potentially, there's still an unidentified source of infection. At the risk of appearing blunt, the fact that you're even contemplating doing this really does suggest that you haven't learnt much at all to be honest.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i know but now i know how stupid i am, im going to start all over again, and my freind went to the vet yesterday with some leos because 1 more died yesterday and they said unless we get some fecals for every gecko its going to be over £300 and then treatment which me and my friend decided the best thing was to do was have them pts.


so you still don't know what the leos were dying from and won't be looking to find out why either? You were given the PALs link not so long ago which would've been cheaper (£35+) but you didn't even use that service! 



> and now im upset coz i feel like a bad breeder. i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


sorry but this has been heard before on more then one occasion and you just carry on as before


olivine said:


> A _*good*_ breeder would have made sure that they had identified the cause of the health problem that affected these animals and paid for their treatment, if treatment was possible. No reputable breeder would contemplate bringing in new geckos when, potentially, there's still an unidentified source of infection. At the risk of appearing blunt, the fact that you're even contemplating doing this really does suggest that you haven't learnt much at all to be honest.


exactly


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

you don't want to be a bad breeder! my god your a terrible keeper never muind keeper to be fair, as stated earlier, you've just got a grand from your nan and your prioritys are to spend it on more leos rather than trying to ease the suffering of the ones you already have or had. good god sort yourself out.

if one of mine becomes ill everything else get put on hold IE breeding programs etc, and this is not a theoretical idea i have, its fact and it happens. you seriously shouldn't be keeping animals at all, period never mind breeding them, if you can't afford to look after a couple of adults (which includes vet fee's) the i very highly doubt you could cope with breeding them and having complications.

you really are begining to iritate me with your incesant childish attitude towards living, breathing animals, don't you think they feel pain just cos they don't cry out like people do.

your attitude towards reptiles is all wrong, you see them as disposable assets that can be moved on or swappeed when they become ill or for a stronger better leo, you can try to prove me wrong but to be honest your post prove me right.
they aren't football cards that can be swapped around and disposed of once they become unwanted and tatty.
grow up and do yourself and the reptiles a favour and STOP BUYING THEM and wait till your mature enough to understand the concept of life and consequenses of your actions.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

It's people like you that give the younger keepers a bad reputuation.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i know but now i know how stupid i am, im going to start all over again, and my freind went to the vet yesterday with some leos because 1 more died yesterday and they said unless we get some fecals for every gecko its going to be over £300 and then treatment which me and my friend decided the best thing was to do was have them pts.
> 
> i just wanna get over it now as ive just had a sad phone call from him. and now im upset coz i feel like a bad breeder. i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


Did i read this right you had them all pts? When you had £1000 sitting in your back pocket for vet treatments. Whatever they had could have been treatable??? 
Surely it was worth finding this out to possibly save their lives. 
Ive heard of a leo dying from something as simple as worms in the past, was unknown to the owner as it was not showing signs but after having a pm done and finding this out it meant the whole collection could be treated very easyily saving the rest from any suffering and illness.

Is your nan loaning you the £? If thats the case how will you pay it back ??

Id sell my car, my jewellry, anything i could to save my animals if i didnt have the money spare for some reason. Life is more important than material things in my eyes.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

luke123 said:


> It's people like you that give the younger keepers a bad reputuation.


Which is a shame really, given that there are younger members on here who have proved their commitment to providing excellent care for their herps and will act in the best interests of their animals no matter what.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

im a good carer of reptiles so all think what you want in 5 years time i will prove you all wrong when i become a professional breeder. im 15 and my parents are having in bad money situations as i say my nan said she would give me £1000 for et bills if anythin goes wrong with my reptiles from now so please just leave it now.

im gonna leave this forum and go to another coz im sick of ppl judging me when they dont even know me, i love all my geckos and i care the best, i didnt save money last year and this year everything was going well then they got ill and i didnt have the money to get them sorted i will be doing it properly just please let me hav 1 more chace to get my reputation up.


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## simooshy (Mar 12, 2010)

I didn't judge...:sad:


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## jaf2212 (May 10, 2008)

It seems that nothing that is said on here you listen too and I'm guessing after a while it will be the same to the other forums too.

Before you think about becoming a breeder you need to ensure you can afford it, as its not just the vets bill to consider


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> im a good carer of reptiles so all think what you want in 5 years time i will prove you all wrong when i become a professional breeder. im 15 and my parents are having in bad money situations as i say my nan said she would give me £1000 for et bills if anythin goes wrong with my reptiles from now so please just leave it now.
> 
> im gonna leave this forum and go to another coz im sick of ppl judging me when they dont even know me, i love all my geckos and i care the best, i didnt save money last year and this year everything was going well then they got ill and i didnt have the money to get them sorted i will be doing it properly just please let me hav 1 more chace to get my reputation up.


I've also been in "bad money situations" in the past, but my animal's have always come first; if they required veterinary treatment, I got the money somehow / negotiated with the vet for an instalment plan so that the animal could be treated. That's what it means to be a "good carer" for your animals; their needs come first, no matter what. That can also entail _not_ getting animals if you can't afford to meet all of their requirements; taking on the responsibility of an animal that you can't afford to care for properly is, quite simply, putting your desire to own an animal ahead of that animal's well-being. 

You say that you are "sick of ppl judging (you) when they don't know (you)"; well I'm afraid that people only form an opinion based upon the comments that you yourself have made. If people appear to be getting at you, that's because you have repeatedly been offered excellent advice that you have chosen to ignore. The ball is now in your court; listen to what's been posted on here and you might find that you've earned some respect.


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## promarc73 (Jul 5, 2009)

sorry but after reading through this dont buy any rep's at all, go and buy a xbox 360 or a ps3, because you dont deserve to have any rep's or animals in fact. if it was me my pc would of been sold xbox or whatever to get treatment or to find out what happened. everything you've said in this thread and your previous one worrie's me and no way would i sell you anything.


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

olivine said:


> The ball is now in your court; listen to what's been posted on here and you might find that you've earned some respect.


:2thumb:

You clearly have an ambition to become a 'top breeder' and I wish you good luck with that, but it really doesn't sound like you are in a position to do this at the moment. If you need to borrow money before you have even started, then wait until you are in a better position.

The £1000 will only last so long, what will happen when it runs out?


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## Tink&Chaos (Mar 20, 2010)

This is truly worrying 
Ok, people can only form opinions of you, by the way you portrray yourself on here. From that...I'm afraid you do not come out in a good light!
Money can be a struggle. I am unable to work (due to spine problem), and me& my OH have had some serious times of struggling for money. Especially when we were trying to buy food for our Dad that was dying of cancer & getting no benefit help. But all our animals still had the best food . meanwhile we lived on bread & eggs if we were lucky for a while (scrambled, sarnies...found lots to do with bread & eggs) we literally were scraping up our 'penny jar' we had to get enough for a loaf of bread. BUT we would have sold everything in the house & our souls if it had meant we couldn't properly care for our animals.

We are probably all wasting our time, as you get defensive, rather than looking at yourself & doing something positive. Getting rid of the old, to start anew....isn't a 'good' thing to be doing!!! That isn't taking positive action, though you seem to think starting over is ok, forget the last lot...but this time I will do it properly.......

You will no doubt go on other forums, but before long sadly people will develop the same opinions we all have. If you have no Leo's now...what about your sig?? Or I guess you have forgotton to change that:hmm:

It is a very sad situation. I have seen you trying to sell very unwell gecko's on here, on more than one occasion. Even if they were your 'Friends'...as a 'Breeder' you should know these animals are not for being sold in that condition. A non breeder would know that with one look.

I'm not a nasty person, and I am not out to argue & upset people. But this I have found very upsetting & worrying. I am concerned for any future leo's you may have. You say you have learnt & it will not happen again...But when money is tight.......well, it seems the animals/reptiles are the first to go.



> im a good carer of reptiles so all think what you want in 5 years time i will prove you all wrong when i become a professional breeder


 This is not about you proving a point. Do you think anyone else really cares if you ended up the worlds best breeder(hmmm)?
We care about the Leo's. Yes you can still be a breeder, lets face it any of us could class ourselves as such. Doesn't mean that you are breeding Healthy happy Geckos though, or that you know what you are doing. You could write a book on Leo keeping....people do....and whats worse, many of these same people do not have a clue either, not like you have to prove you have done something...anyone can do these things after owning an animal for just one day! 

I truly hope you have a long hard think about this. No-one is attacking you. But we all hold our animals/reptiles in very high regard & their welfare comes first. Hence why people that care, naturally get angry when reading these kinds of things.
I think not being rude, that you need to wait a few years, learn a bit more...thoughts and feelings change a lot over the years. You may think you know it all now, but wait until you are 20..30...40...50.. Alot changes in that time, You will be surprised how much a person can change, maybe you will look back and be glad you didn't go into it fully. Hopefully.

More than anything....try and think how these Leo's are feeling....and with pets, you can't just wipe the slate clean & start again. They are not toys to be thrown away when they break, or get boring because they aren't as pretty. They have feelings too.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

right guys, i have read all your posts, and i am sorry for causing havvock, im not going to be a big breeder i only want 2 now so i can concentrate and thats it. i have got the money for 2 but i didnt have the money to treat 15 geckos. i know what ive done is silly and uncalled for but what is done is done i just want to get this all over and start a fresh with just 2 lizards as my pets, i can affford them but not 15 ..i jumped the gun wen i bred them last year coz i kinda got addicted with all the morphs and im going to move forums as its not fair me upsetting everyone. i will be looking on here evry now and then coz i like u all..i just want to become a good breeder.

i wish everyone all the best.. 

good bye 
Brad


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i know but now i know how stupid i am, im going to start all over again, and my freind went to the vet yesterday with some leos because 1 more died yesterday and they said unless we get some fecals for every gecko its going to be over £300 and then treatment which me and my friend decided the best thing was to do was have them pts.
> 
> i just wanna get over it now as ive just had a sad phone call from him. and now im upset coz i feel like a bad breeder. i dont want to be silly and i have deffo learnt from my mistakes.


Am I reading this right ? The lad has a vet fund of £1000 from his Nan but is allowing some of his geckos to be euthanised rather than pay for faecal testing ? Even if the bill does come to £300 that leaves a very healthy balance in reserve. I wish the lads Nan could read these threads,I think she might change her mind about bailing him out if she did. I think most Nans would be ashamed of him and heartbroken if they knew their grandson was behaving like this. Brad, Im sorry lad but you really do take the biscuit. You are an insult to all the junior reptile keeping community. Move forums by all means but unless you change your ways people will soon develop the same feelings about you. Stop thinking about yourself, get your act together and start putting the animals you claim to love FIRST. Please dont abuse the wonderful generosity of your Nan. Not many kids will be in the fortunate position of knowing they wont have to worry about vet bills for a few years.


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## simooshy (Mar 12, 2010)

I think he said the friend has the geckos now, and the nan has offered that money since he lost them. But as I said earlier, he really should save some of his own money first...


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

simooshy said:


> I think he said the friend has the geckos now, and the nan has offered that money since he lost them. But as I said earlier, he really should save some of his own money first...


 But then him and his friend decided to have them all put to sleep.

Shame on the OP to be honest, it's pure selfishness that's got him in this position. You bought 15 leo's, and I bet you couldn't afford one consultation never mind 15, so you just gave them all away or had them killed. Easy way out of your problem, and now you want to buy more? I'm not even going to bother anymore, your stupidity makes me, and I'm sure a lot of other people angry.

You not looking after your animals has cost them their lives. I hope you're happy!


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

simooshy said:


> I think he said the friend has the geckos now, and the nan has offered that money since he lost them. But as I said earlier, he really should save some of his own money first...


Sadly, what he actually said was.......



leopardgeckomad said:


> .....my freind went to the vet yesterday with some leos because 1 more died yesterday and they said unless we get some fecals for every gecko its going to be over £300 and then treatment which me and my friend decided the best thing was to do was have them pts.


As the trip to the vet only happened yesterday, he presumably some idea that his Nan was might offer him the £1,000, but he's chosen to spend on new geckos rather than treating his existing animals.


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## simooshy (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, weren't those the geckos his friend took off him though? I still would have offered the money though...


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## 53bird (Sep 30, 2009)

olivine said:


> Which is a shame really, given that there are younger members on here who have proved their commitment to providing excellent care for their herps and will act in the best interests of their animals no matter what.


 
im only 23 and if any of my lot drops a gram i pay £30 to the vet just to make sure there ok and evan a check up once a year (which isnt cheap for all of them)
ive just spent 20mins reading this thread, im so angry now :devil::devil::devil: 

if the op wants to start again why doesnt he get hes old ones back :bash:
but then i dont want to hear of this f***** ever keeping anything 


i think ive had to much to drink :whistling2:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Mal said:


> Am I reading this right ? The lad has a vet fund of £1000 from his Nan but is allowing some of his geckos to be euthanised rather than pay for faecal testing ? Even if the bill does come to £300 that leaves a very healthy balance in reserve. I wish the lads Nan could read these threads,I think she might change her mind about bailing him out if she did. I think most Nans would be ashamed of him and heartbroken if they knew their grandson was behaving like this. Brad, Im sorry lad but you really do take the biscuit. You are an insult to all the junior reptile keeping community. Move forums by all means but unless you change your ways people will soon develop the same feelings about you. Stop thinking about yourself, get your act together and start putting the animals you claim to love FIRST. Please dont abuse the wonderful generosity of your Nan. Not many kids will be in the fortunate position of knowing they wont have to worry about vet bills for a few years.


Mal, thats EXACTLY what I was going to say!!

You know you have a £1000 loan now off your nan, why the hell are you not rushing round to your friends and telling them you have the money to treat the leos? 

You say your friend agreed to take them on knowing that they needed vet attention but now your friend doesn't want to pay for that vet attention and is instead going to have them PTS?? 

If I were you, I would go get my 15 leos back from your friend, treat them all then sell some of them when they have been treated and are healthy to pay your nan back for the loan. Or is that too much like hard work for you and you would rather they were all PTS and you could buy 3 new leos instead? You make me sick! If you cared AT ALL about your leos, you would get them treated now you have the money!

And £300 for fecal tests? What, is that testing all 15 leos? That is expensive so why don't you get ONE of the 15 leos tested and treat them all with the same medication as they have all been in contact with each other?? That would work out much cheaper! I bet that would cost more like £100 for the fecal test and treatment, a small price to pay!

I hope you do leave this forum and please don't come back :bash:

ETA - I have just thought of something, how come your friend can afford to have them all PTS but can't afford the treatment? The vet doesn't PTS animals for free you know....or are they going in your friends freezer instead?


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## 53bird (Sep 30, 2009)

nuttybabez said:


> Mal, thats EXACTLY what I was going to say!!
> 
> You know you have a £1000 loan now off your nan, why the hell are you not rushing round to your friends and telling them you have the money to treat the leos?
> 
> ...


well said!!!!!


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## eddyisdabest (Jan 1, 2010)

quick flick though so may have missed some points but this guy sounds like a total douch. and to be honest 15 isn't even a legal age to to buy animals without adult consent, and £5 a week thats not even enough to feed the little things. i only consider my self as a young keeper at the age of 20 but i have a stable job and ensure i always have some emergency money. i dont know if theres any law in place for private breeders selling animals to miners or if its just shops but you can obviously see what theres a law there and why that poor woman got a huge fine for selling to a minor recently. personally if i had been in the same position of this chap i wouldent even dream of buying any more animals till i was sure i could provide.

i also notice alot of people on this forum commenting about waiting for student loans so they can afford another rep and i wonder weather they consider what about when i finish uni and the student loans stop... what if i cant get a job which with the economy how it is isnt looking too good and will there parent be willing to take on the expenses. some people realy do just wind me up


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

OMFG i would never put it in a freezer thats it im Fuc**ng pissd off now goodbye..in my eyes i couldnt see my leos so suffer so i had them HUMANELY put to sleep. it cost me £10 and my friend paid £10from our local vet.

also i am going to breed again but when i get a stable job and atleast £300 in the bank just for thte reptiles.

i havent got a problem with any one on hear but im leaving anyway.

and tell T-Bo he can delete this Account 

GOOD BYE,

no one reply anymore your all sad if you do. also i LOVE all animals including Reptiles...what would you rather me do keep them and have them suffer days of pain because i cant afford vet, or have them HUMANELY pts.

tbh i know ive done the right dcision, and it really did upset me..also the £1000 was a lie 

i said it to try and shut you all up but it didnt work...


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Yeah I know the £1000 was a lie. Thats why I posted what I did. If someone posted a solution like I did, you would have to back down and admit you lied.

I also know that there is no way a vet has PTS 15 leos for £20 so thats another lie. My betting is that they went in your mates freezer. So sad and such a waste of life.


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

We all knew the £1000 was a lie, unless there are some reallt gullible people on here:gasp:

Also agree with Nutty that there is no way a vet euthanised 15 geckos for such little money. It would cost more than that just to get the consultation!

IF the geckos are still alive, please do the right thing and find a home for them with someone who is able to provide for them.


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## eddyisdabest (Jan 1, 2010)

nuttybabez said:


> I also know that there is no way a vet has PTS 15 leos for £20 so thats another lie.


i was thinking that but then again one vet i use for mammals is very kind and i think he would do some thing like that. i think any one with a heart would as £20 would cover a syringe full of the blue stuff and a baby leo wouldn't need much. thats what i will leave my self thinking the alternative just isnt a nice fort.


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## Fatherted (Feb 8, 2010)

leopardgeckomad said:


> im a good carer of reptiles so all think what you want in 5 years time i will prove you all wrong when i become a professional breeder..


 
I don’t think you realize what’s involved here......I have a very good friend in Wales who breeds & raise's hundreds of leos every year (dave davies), the quality of his leos is excellent ....but to have high quality leos like that you need the finances, experience and commitment that’s needed ....like getting up at 4-5am for 2-3 days in a row & spending most of the day just cleaning them out to maintain a healthy environment....sorry but you don’t have any of these quality’s or requirements at the moment & I think it will be a long time before you do....its horrible to think that those poor leo's suffered due to your inexperince & callous attitude.......i really do hope that you improve you husbandry & knowledge on reptiles... sadly not for your sake....but for the reptiles you intend to keep in the future.......I have rays number....but id rather phone him and warn him.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

All very sad but you're no doubt intent on getting 2 more Leos.

Before you do consider that you may have had an outbreak of Cryptosporidium. It's why quarantining new geckos (and other reptiles) away from your existing ones is so important. Cryptosporidium is highly resistant to disinfectants - even neat bleach for example. Placing new Leos into the old viv's is not a good idea and you are very likely to have a repeat experiance..

If you take nothing else from this thread please buy NEW vivariums and destroy your old ones, including all furnishings and equipment. It may well save your new geckos lives.


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## Faybert (Sep 29, 2008)

I'll happily admit I think you're an idiot, I only hope you do really leave the forum and I would suggest not keeping reptiles too. If you love animals do the decent thing and don't subject them to yourself. And you've admitted to lying so you'll never have any respect here. Good riddance :censor:


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

right guys i want to end this once and for all, 

i have 2 leo hatchlings atm and im getting them tested this week from PALS.
also all my other adults have been pts because there eyes were sucken in, they were pooing out a bit of blood, they were lethargic, please just stop now im upset as it is, i know ive said stupid things, im starting again and i have got a job now so im saving £10 a week for vet fees, in the future touch wood i wont have any.

i love reptiles and im sure im not the only breeder who has to put the geckos out of there misery, id rather of put them to sleep rather than them in pain.

anyway end it now and i really dont want to move forums as this is the best one lol.

but please give me 1 last very last chance.

ps. if a mod come across this can they remove it withing 3 days. thankyou

and sorry for the inconveinence i have corsed


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

Brad, you *have* to start being honest with people. You say above that you had them PTS because their:


> eyes were sucken in, they were pooing out a bit of blood, they were lethargic


And yet you have stated on another forum that they had Crypto. It is a really sad day when honest people really cannot believe a single word you say. In situations like this, it is really impossible for people to help you, because the problem more likely to be fiction than to be reality!

My suspicion is that the reason you no longer want to leave this forum is because you were faced with the same response on the other forum you tried.

IF as you say you have two hatchlings, why were they not tested at the same time the others were? Or was the crypto case made up? Having 15 animals with such severe symptoms does not develop overnight, and nor is cryptosporidium likely to work like that.

I have to say that I find it very insulting that you keep trying to mislead us, and so I will not be available to help you in the future.

Andy


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## Kiel (Aug 20, 2009)

i'm just glad i backed out of buying leos from you.

i didn't know your reputation at the time, a little looking around showed me that i should be wary and this just makes me sure i made the right choice.

unfortunate, i could have given the animals the treatment they so obviously required, but i'd rather not fund your abusive treatment.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i have 2 leo hatchlings atm and im getting them tested this week from PALS.
> also all my other adults have been pts because there eyes were sucken in, they were pooing out a bit of blood, they were lethargic,


it's a crying shame that the other leos weren't afforded this test earlier as it would probably have saved a lot of suffering for them as well as giving them a chance at being treated.


> please just stop now im upset as it is, i know ive said stupid things, im starting again and i have got a job now so im saving £10 a week for vet fees, in the future touch wood i wont have any


It's not often I voice my feelings on here and I make no apology for being/sounding harsh ~ 
it's not just the stupid things said Brad it's also the downright lies... lies that you've continued elsewhere with regards to supposed tests/results etc and it's not the first time either is it ... that and the negligent cruelty you showed towards them is, for me anyway, unacceptable.


> i love reptiles and im sure im not the only breeder who has to put the geckos out of there misery, id rather of put them to sleep rather than them in pain.


yes I've had geckos PTS humanely when there's been *no other option* *and all tests and treatments have been given to them* ~ but I myself and many Breeders and Owners I know have *NEVER* let a gecko suffer in misery like you have and therein lays the difference between Breeders and Owners I respect and yourself.

I really would suggest that you seriously rethink either setting yourself up as a breeder or having a collection of geckos/reps for a long while to come.


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Im hoping a mod doesnt delete this post as potential buyers of any babies that might be produced need to the know the past of their breeder! 
I certainly always check previous posts and feedback before buying anything!!!!

As Glasgowgecko says Crypto doesnt appear overnight, it also doesnt leave overnight. If that is infact what they had, I guess we will never know now? Did you not think to have a pm done as you had them all PTS?

For the sake of the new hatchlings bin evrything you ever used for your other leos and start afresh and as Sleepy D says seriously rethink your plans!!!!!!!


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

is this douchbag for real iv never herd so much rot in all my life 
my 8 year old daughter looks after her rabbit with no problems whats so ever feeding it bathing it she even demanded she came to the vet a couple of year ago when a bite got infected the only thing she doesnt do is clean it out but she is 8 and has had it for 4 year 

so tell you what send your geckos up here and she will look after them 10 times better than you would any day and save them from going through all that like your last lot did 

sorry you may be 15 but what an ass


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

A 15 year old 'breeder', more like pubescent keyboard warrior. 

Everyone deserves a another chance but you are so full of :censor: it amazes me. Clearly the health of your animals is not your primary concern. Get a job/another job cause you are going to need to save a fair amount of money for emergency vet fees. 

If you are intent on keeping two babies as pets but I wouldn't even consider breeding until you are past the age of majority and have your own place. If you previously had crypto then you need to throw out all of your equipment. A lot of decent breeders like SleepyDee have offered you quality advice but you are behaving like a child and throwing it back in their face. Want to be taken seriously? Grow up. Oh and quit the compulsive lying thing. Your lies stink a mile off. 

I think this thread should stay up as a reminder to you not to be such an arse and to remind you constantly to do the best every day you can for your animals. If you can't do that you don't deserve them. I spend hours each night caring for my animals, what do you do? You want all the pets without the hardwork. Forget it and get some parental supervision.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

Leopardgeckomad's threads always end up like this, either sick leos, selling for a fiver or cant afford vet. Is there a legal age for selling animals as im sure the first few posts I looked at he was rather young........... Regardless its not a good idea to buy more when you dont know what the previous problem was. Could be a death sentence to the poor things. I certainly wouldnt sell to someone if I knew this.


looked above, thought he was 15 if theres an age on buying animals then surely theres a law for selling.


oh and affording vet bills isnt a case of asking parents friends or family for money. If you believe you are responsible enough to own breed and sell then provide for them yourself, if you are too young...........wait!


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

I heard once that you have to be an adult to sell something as a sale is a legally binding contract, I don't know this for certain cause I am a scientist not an expert in business and law!


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

pro breeder ? really.

even if you breed loads and have nice babies, whos going to buy from you after what you have done now.

people would have more respect for you if you stopped buying leos and waited a few years until you feel ready again.

you have already got a bad name for yourself, dont make it eny worse.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

Nix said:


> I heard once that you have to be an adult to sell something as a sale is a legally binding contract, I don't know this for certain cause I am a scientist not an expert in business and law!


 
I would certainly like to find out because I am sick of this boy misleading people, blatently lying to people, leaving animals to suffer and selling them off cheap as chips when he is fed up and wants the next best morph!

I am not against responsible people breeding, buying and selling, breeders need new lines after all but theres ways to do it and not like this. 

If the leos did have crypto then people would fully support him if he done the right thing, chuck everything out, eradicate it, disinfect everything touched, quarantine anything he had and stop buying/selling. This would be too much to ask of such a :censor: though



Now that he has lied the poor leos left will either die of the previous illness or be sold of for pennies to the first person who will take them when he is over run as no responsible person will buy.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

the legal age before you can buy an animal without parental consent is I believe 16 though I know many places where the age guideline is set at 18....... anyone found selling an animal/rep to someone under the age of sixteen can face fines and/or imprisonment
with regards to selling this seems to be a grey area however you cannot sell as a Street Trader until 16+ and places such as ebay etc have an 18 and over policy for sellers


Nix said:


> I heard once that you have to be an adult to sell something as a sale is a legally binding contract, I don't know this for certain cause I am a scientist not an expert in business and law!


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

thats it im off this forum, if you ever come across me on another dont bother messagin me or about me.

im starting fresh, ive euthanised my other geckos as they started to die one-by-one and i dont like seeing them suffer, im starting fresh.

so GoodBye


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

ive sent an pm to t-bo asking if hes aware of any legal issues, my thoughts are he could be challenged as this site is clearly offering a market place, and advertising revenue is being taken in some forms.

I have always said if you want to trade on this site it should be only open to premium members, thereby ensuring a paypal account which is for only over 18yr olds.

Be interested in his reply.


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> thats it im off this forum, if you ever come across me on another dont bother messagin me or about me.
> 
> im starting fresh, ive euthanised my other geckos as they started to die one-by-one and i dont like seeing them suffer, im starting fresh.
> 
> so GoodBye


sorry but do you really think we care??:devil:


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## Chaos&Tink (May 3, 2010)

I really do hope you do remove yourself.....not only from this forum but from the hobby completely!
You really are a disgrace to this wonderful hobby, yourself and humankind. You need to go away, extricate your head out of your anus and grow up!
Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

none of you know me, i LOVE leopardgeckos, and my setups are of an excellent standard, i will be leaving this forum with my head held high. i know how to care for reptiles, i do have the knowledge. 

so good bye and no one reply.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> thats it im off this forum, if you ever come across me on another dont bother messagin me or about me.
> 
> im starting fresh, ive euthanised my other geckos as they started to die one-by-one and i dont like seeing them suffer, im starting fresh.
> 
> so GoodBye


Sorry, it's not that simple I'm afraid. You have repeatedly attempted to sell animals that you claim are healthy in one thread, while in other threads you have previously admitted that the same geckos are displaying signs of ill health (for example in the threads here and here). You have attempted to hire tables at shows duplicitously, even though the organisers informed you that you were too young to do so, as shown in this thread. 

You have displayed a completely irresponsible attitude towards the care of your geckos and have decided to introduce new animals into an environment which may still contain crypto (you've publically announced that to be the case in this thread). In attempting to set yourself as a 'breeder' (and I use that word in the loosest possible terms) you could therefore be putting other peoples collections in jeopardy. Given your totally unacceptable behaviour, I for one will have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever advising people to avoid buying from you on any forum I encounter you on.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

FFS, dont come on captivebred and start making out your a top leopard gecko breeder or ill just post a link to this very thread.

Im sorry but you do not have a good attitude.

STOP!. dont buy eny more leopard geckos. Wait a couple of years and think if you really want to breed them. 

:devil:


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

I have my doubts that any of his reps had crypto.... Sounds like a nice cover up story for bad husbandry to me


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> none of you know me, i LOVE leopardgeckos, and my setups are of an excellent standard, i will be leaving this forum with my head held high.* i know how to care for reptiles, i do have the knowledge.*


I'm sorry but that is something that I find very hard to believe..... if you truely cared for and knew how to care for your geckos then they would not have been left *undiagnosed* by a vet nor left to suffer *untreated* like they did.



olivine said:


> Given your totally unacceptable behaviour, I for one will have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever advising people to avoid buying from you on any forum I encounter you on.


*nods* fraid I agree with that sentiment entirely


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

southpython said:


> FFS, dont come on captivebred and start making out your a top leopard gecko breeder or ill just post a link to this very thread.


he's already been posting about his 'crypto diagnosed' geckos on there :devil:


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

SleepyD said:


> he's already been posting about his 'crypto diagnosed' geckos on there :devil:


 
Yeah i read that a while back, best thing for him to do is leave the hobby. Scrap this account and come back after a long long think about where he wants to go with reptiles.


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## tattooandy (Jul 16, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> none of you know me, i LOVE leopardgeckos, and my setups are of an excellent standard, i will be leaving this forum with my head held high. i know how to care for reptiles, i do have the knowledge.
> 
> so good bye and no one reply.


 
Goodbye and good riddance........from what ive seen and heard about you the forum is better off without you. It totally sickens me when people just off load their sick animals and then replace them. If you cant afford or cant be bothered to provide the care needed then DONT buy them, simple. Lets hope that no one sells you anymore leo's for you to neglect.


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## tattooandy (Jul 16, 2009)

Also does anybody actually know his real age, because from what ive been told his been 15 for about the last 3 years.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

tattooandy said:


> Also does anybody actually know his real age, because from what ive been told his been 15 for about the last 3 years.


Are we talking mental age or proper age??


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

You arent leaving, you have said you are several times but you are still here and you are still trying to defend yourself when its pretty obvious noboby wants you around and you have no excuse for the actions you have taken. Im thinking you just like the attention this thread is getting.....
My advise read the whole thread again, take the advise that has been given to you by many members including top breeders and take a hint when you are being called so many names it means people dont like you or what you did or plan to do....that many people cant be wrong.


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

It's not about how good your setups are, if the animal becomes ill you need to do all you can to treat it! They aren't mammals, they can't make a noise to say they're in pain. When you figure out a reptile is ill you need to treat it urgently because a lot of the times they don't let you know there's something wrong until it's developed and it's quite bad.

You shouldn't be allowed to keep animals if you can't afford the vets feed they can make. Would you let a dog suffer? No. Why let a leo then?


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

i didnt make my leos suffer, it happened all within a night i had 3 leos that went down hill.

i cant be bovered with this anymore im still breeding geckos and ive learnt from my mistakes..


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i didnt make my leos suffer, it happened all within a night i had 3 leos that went down hill.
> 
> i cant be bovered with this anymore im still breeding geckos and ive learnt from my mistakes..


Thought you had gone ?

Please just only keep a few leos and keep them well. DOnt keep buying more.

im sure we would have more repect for you if you had a different attitude.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i didnt make my leos suffer, it happened all within a night i had 3 leos that went down hill.
> 
> i cant be bovered with this anymore im still breeding geckos and ive learnt from my mistakes..


 
lol thought you left the forum but is that more sh&$e aswell:whistling2:


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

right guys, can we start over once more,

i know i was stupid enough to think i was rescuing 4 skinny geckos from the shop but obviosly they had something wrong and gave watever they had to my geckos which i sadly miss, but i had to euthanise them as i didnt want to see them suffer. 

the next time i breed geckos i will deffo go to the vet as soon as i see a sign of bad health, i had to haave mine pts because it was too late.

im sick and i actually do hate myself for what i have done, but all i can try to do is get over it. and i know none of you have any respect for me anymore and i can fully understand that. im a complete twat i know but please please believe me i do care for my reptiles. ive still got 2 geckos and one beardie and they are all fine as they were in another room. 

i have fully disinfected my reptile cages and the reptile room and all the hides ect. i just want to get this mess i have bought on myself all cleaned up.

i know i have done many things wrong but i do love reptiles and now from now on im going to show u all that i do.

sorry again for everything ive done and i do hate myself for it.

kind regards 

brad


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

quick question what have you disinfected your viv/equipment with?


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

Slurm said:


> quick question what have you disinfected your viv/equipment with?


first of all i dicinfected them with normal reptile disinfectant but i read thats its useless so i got some F10 BioCare today and used it


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

You can gain respect but everyone will always remember mate. Things stick.

People would respect you if you didnt buy enymore for a while and stopped thinking your a top breeder.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

i dont think im a top breeder, id love to be a top breeder , i just want to get back into geckos slowly, im going to buy 3 next weekend, and just start again with them and gain more experience.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i dont think im a top breeder, id love to be a top breeder , i just want to get back into geckos slowly, im going to buy 3 next weekend, and just start again with them and gain more experience.


Ive lost all repect for you now.

You buying 3 more this weekend! so soon ?! 

I cant be botherd with you.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Slurm said:


> i never called you stupid, but with all your posts i think its something you will have a hard time defending.:whistling2:



Sorry for OT but that thing in your sig looks like it's been skinned alive and dipped in boiling water. Is it an anorexic mole rat?


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

You have 2 at the moment.. buying 3 next week is not taking things slowly at all. If you have the money for 3 more already, I would advise you to put that toward vet bills and replacement equipment. : victory:

Look, I can HELP you if you would like it. We can discuss any future plans you may have and I can help you toward setting individual goals for you to meet (in time). I won't shout at you, I won't give you any abuse. I DO believe that you love leopard geckos, but you need to take a step back from breeding at the moment. Keep the two you have as pets for at least a couple of years and build up very very slowly. If you want to be a well respected breeder you will first need to listen to your potential customers (everyone on here who is trying to understand and help you and your geckos) and do what they advise. If you really do love the geckos, appreciate them as they are without feeling the need to add to the numbers or breed from them. 

If you want to talk in a calm manner, discuss your plans and so on, you can add me on MSN (just pm for addy).


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

leopardgeckomad said:


> first of all i dicinfected them with normal reptile disinfectant but i read thats its useless so i got some F10 BioCare today and used it


 
not that i believe you have f10 but even if you do it wont do crap against crypto, might aswell use water.

as a way of showing you are telling the truth now, put a piece of paper infront of your f10 bottle with leopardgeckomad written on it, take a pic and post the pic, show everyone your trying and not lying...


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i dont think im a top breeder, id love to be a top breeder , i just want to get back into geckos slowly, im going to buy 3 next weekend, and just start again with them and gain more experience.


How many more times does this need to be repeated? As you didn't get faecals run on your animals, the infection that killed them remains unidentified and, potentially at least, may have been crypto. If it was crypto, simply disinfecting the enclosures, even with F10, will not eradicate the infection as oocysts will not be destroyed by disinfectant. Introducing new leos into that environment therefore runs the risk of infecting them too. This may not be apparent immediately; crypto can remain asymptomatic for months, even years. To be perfectly honest, no one in their right mind would buy an animal from you in such circumstances.


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## dmiles310 (May 1, 2009)

leopardgeckomad said:


> i dont think im a top breeder, id love to be a top breeder ,* i just want to get back into geckos slowly*, im going to buy 3 next weekend, and just start again with them and gain more experience.





leopardgeckomad said:


> right guys, can we start over once more,
> 
> i know i was stupid enough to think i was rescuing 4 skinny geckos from the shop but obviosly they had something wrong and gave watever they had to my geckos which i sadly miss, but i had to euthanise them as i didnt want to see them suffer.
> 
> ...



If you have still got 2 geckos then why do you need to buy anymore if you want to get back into geckos slowly?


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## ginnerone (Aug 2, 2009)

OK enough is enough, your clearly NOT gonna get fecals done, your clearly NOT gonna check the health of any further reptile purchases and i think its safe to say your NOT gonna quarantine them either.

You shouldn't be keeping reptiles if your not prepared to shell out the nessesary costs to ensure they are clean, healthy and safe.

I like to be blunt, so lets be blunt.

You can respond to this in a childish manor and call me names if you wish but i can sleep comfortably at night knowing i do the best by my animals and always ensure they are clean, healthy and free from parasites to the best of my ability BUT I personnaly think you are a moron who should be banned from keeping reptiles until your maturity level reaches a point that you can understand that these are living creatures and NOT just the latest craze that would make you look cool to all your mates. 
Getting back into reptiles is not something you do because you killed off your previous collection, you shouldn't be responsible for another creatures life let alone be allowed to breed the poor things so you end up with more of the poor blighters.
DON'T buy any more reptiles until you fully understand how much they can cost you both financialy and time wise. you need to look into what your doing very carefully, most breeders have kept reptiles for a few years first before they decide to breed to make sure they are fully aware of any circumstance that may arise and how to deal with it.

summary
GROW UP
DON'T BUY ANYMORE REPS YET
FULLY RESEARCH THE COST AND CARE REQUIRED FOR KEEPING AND BREEDING.
keep them alive, comfortable and happy for at least a year before you breed.

maybe then, and only then will you start to earn the trust and respect from time served and experienced breeders, which in turn will result in you getting as much help as you need.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

kk guys im going to buy pure ammonia then, i rang the vet in south beach vetinary surgery in wickford/southend and they said F10 is the best disinfectant they use also PALS reccomend it too.

heres the pic as requested:


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

well thats a step in the right direction but as more than just i have said f10 even if you mix at 8mls per litre it still wont kill crypto, if it is crypto then the ONLY real way to be clear is to throw out all the equipment and vivs.

you dont get second chances with crypto...


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

Slurm said:


> well thats a step in the right direction but as more than just i have said f10 even if you mix at 8mls per litre it still wont kill crypto, if it is crypto then the ONLY real way to be clear is to throw out all the equipment and vivs.
> 
> you dont get second chances with crypto...


ok well i am willing to do that, but before i do, im sure ive seen everywere that F10 and Ammonia can kill crypto and how come PALS reccomend it and other reptile vets.


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

ammonia at over 10% mix and left for 30 mins should kill crypto, but its not garanteed. 

F10 is just not strong enough.

The smell from the ammonia will take ages to go also....


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

olivine said:


> Sorry, it's not that simple I'm afraid. You have repeatedly attempted to sell animals that you claim are healthy in one thread, while in other threads you have previously admitted that the same geckos are displaying signs of ill health (for example in the threads here and here). You have attempted to hire tables at shows duplicitously, even though the organisers informed you that you were too young to do so, as shown in this thread.
> 
> You have displayed a completely irresponsible attitude towards the care of your geckos and have decided to introduce new animals into an environment which may still contain crypto (you've publically announced that to be the case in this thread). In attempting to set yourself as a 'breeder' (and I use that word in the loosest possible terms) you could therefore be putting other peoples collections in jeopardy. Given your totally unacceptable behaviour, I for one will have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever advising people to avoid buying from you on any forum I encounter you on.


Fully agree! 

Sorry Brad, I can't forgive and forget on this one. I won't send any more abuse your way but I am going to completely avoid you and recommend that others do the same! Needless to say, please don't enquire about any leos I will have for sale.


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## croc&chewy (Sep 21, 2009)

This is quite sad really. I actually thought you was about 12/13 years old before I read you was 15. 

There are quite a few decent young reptile keepers on here and you are not one of them. I couldn't agree more with everybody else saying about the vets. 

It's upsetting that somebody who claims to love these animals so much hasn't given them a decent chance at life. I seriously do hope you sort your noggin out before you get any more animals.. 

Also if you say you're not coming back on the forum.. don't come back :whistling2:


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## Faybert (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry but you won't get another chance from me, no matter how bad you feel. You've lied and openly admitted it, tried to sell underweight geckos, off loaded ill geckos and pts geckos without having any tests done or trying to treat them in any way. Plus you're leaving then you're not leaving every day (you should stop getting our hopes up). You're a fidiot and thats not going to chnage any time soon from what I can see!


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

ok bye everyone...


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## Kiel (Aug 20, 2009)

stop SAYING goodbye and either leave or stop getting my hopes up!


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