# im gonna open a pet shop



## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have been thinking about this for a while now and im gonna do it. where i live the closest thing to a pet shop is a vets.

i have decided on the shop i want to rent (still need to find out how much the rent is) and i have set up a couple of trade accounts so far.

i will be selling products for all animals, from dogs and cats to snakes and lizards. i will also be selling some animals.

i have worked out the ones off payments when i first start up, and what my monthly payments will be. 

i need a little help though, i have found out that i cant get grants from the govt. for starting up a business. does anyone know what these are and how much i can get? also i know i need a pet shop licence and insurence but how much is the pet shop licence and what insurence it is i need, contents and personal liabilty, or are there others


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

Good luck 
Grants and government support | Business Link


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thank you


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## sargie (Nov 28, 2010)

Do you have efactor were you are? Thy helped a lady we know start a buisness.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have never heard of them


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## sargie (Nov 28, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i have never heard of them


Heres a link e-Factor


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

The pet shop license costs vary from county to country. You need to speak to the licensing department of your local council. You then need to fill in their application form, and pay the fee - after this you will get a vet inspection and you cannot sell a single live animal until you have your license fully approved, but you can set the shop up and have the animals on display but it's very important you don't sell any animals until your license has come through or you could seriously risk a fine or ban. This fee and inspection is yearly at the moment. It only applies for animals though, you can open and sell dry goods whilst waiting for the license to come through.

Insurance wise you will need to add full contents insurance which for retail is very different to personal, as obviously you could be being insured for tens or even hundreds of thousands worth of goods. Insurance will be cheaper if you have a secure lock up and alarm system. You also need to make sure that your insurance provider gives quotes for live animals - animals will generally be excluded from insurance unless you specifically mention them, and also as a shop if you're stocking a lot of frozen foods you may want to make sure that frozen loss is covered should your freezer break down - last thing you want is to lose thousands of pounds worth of frozen mice because of a power cut or appliance breakage.

Also make sure the windows of the shop are covered by your insurance if possible - although this may be covered by the buildings insurance of the landlord, double check. A rock through the window by some kids can end up costing £500 to replace on the same day so you want to make sure you know who's covering that and that you can get same-day replacement.

Then you need full public liability - this is so if someone decides to sue you, you don't go bankrupt. It can cover everything from people slipping on a wet floor to getting bitten by an animal. Most public liability covers for about £1mil in legals.

Other things you may not realise is that you will need a Fire & Safety check, usually by the local fire department. For my fire department they give these checks free of charge, but you do have to spend money on things like, fire exit signs, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers (size and number depends on the size of the property, how many rooms etc) and you need to have emergency exit plans. You want to get this done before the vet inspector comes out for the license as fire safety is one of the things they need to tick off the inspection.

Your Phone line, internet, gas, water and electric bills will all have to be declared as business use - this is different to personal use, so when getting quotes, make sure you're getting quotes for a business property. Same for council tax, and you will need to take out a contract either with the council or a private company for waste disposal - retail shops do not use the free waste disposal service that houses do, you generally have to pay for special coloured bags or for special trucks to dispose of your retail waste. Those are some little things that people often don't realise so make sure you budget for them in advance 

Hope that helps.


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## Timewarpbunny (Jan 1, 2009)

For grants and funding have a look for you local enterprise agency, you can find it here NFEA - they will receive government funding to deliver projects helping SME's (small to medium enterprises) this might take the form of business advice, funding or training courses. Although with the funding cuts there may actually not be a lot about. I used to work for an Enterprise Agency and we had our funding withdrawn, I also know of Business Link consultants who have been made redundant recently.


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## sargie (Nov 28, 2010)

Timewarpbunny said:


> For grants and funding have a look for you local enterprise agency, you can find it here NFEA - they will receive government funding to deliver projects helping SME's (small to medium enterprises) this might take the form of business advice, funding or training courses. Although with the funding cuts there may actually not be a lot about. I used to work for an Enterprise Agency and we had our funding withdrawn, I also know of Business Link consultants who have been made redundant recently.


Off topic but warmfront is being scrapped too because of government pulling funding.

Good old tories lol im glad i didn't vote them in, they are definately not for the working person.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

good luck with it. i thought about opening up an aquatics or pet shop, but decided i couldnt live not knowing where all the animals would end up :lol2: worrying they werent looked after properly etc, so decided against it.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

you need vendors...


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

sargie said:


> Off topic but warmfront is being scrapped too because of government pulling funding.
> 
> Good old tories lol im glad i didn't vote them in, they are definately not for the working person.


BTW, its only temporary - new Warmfront applications are being accepted wef April 2011. If you're a working person you possibly wouldn't be eligible.

Good luck to the OP in your new venture, but I imagine the initial setup costs will be quite high but that was a very informative and helpful post by a petshop owner on page 1. There is an awful lot to take into account.


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## sargie (Nov 28, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> BTW, its only temporary - new Warmfront applications are being accepted wef April 2011. If you're a working person you possibly wouldn't be eligible.
> 
> Good luck to the OP in your new venture, but I imagine the initial setup costs will be quite high but that was a very informative and helpful post by a petshop owner on page 1. There is an awful lot to take into account.


We are a working family yes, and you are entitled to it if you are receiving tax credits and have children under 16.

They fitted us loft insulation and cavity wall insulation, we passed this on to a friend who rang them. The person on the phone at warm front told her she was just in time as the scheme was being scrapped.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thank you everyone. this is very helpful. i am going to the council and jobcenter next week to find out more.


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## MadManc (Jan 9, 2011)

Where do pet shop owners generally get supplies from? Are there any majotr suppliers or is it down to finding a local one?

Been thinking about this myself lately, suppliers are the first things i would get sorted personally.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Really good luck on the Pet Store.



MadManc said:


> Where do pet shop owners generally get supplies from? Are there any majotr suppliers or is it down to finding a local one?
> 
> Been thinking about this myself lately, suppliers are the first things i would get sorted personally.


I have a feeling all in my local pet store come through one company called Batleys. May be wrong though


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Good luck, it isn't easy. 

Excellent advice from Athravan! :2thumb:

Where possible, try to only stock locally bred animals (obv not feasible with fish), but you may be able to find a local rodent breeder, rabbit breeder, bird breeder, reptile breeders, etc. By doing this, you will be getting much better quality animals, you will know where they have come from, & you will have someone to go back to if you have any problems. Stores such as Pets At Home get their animals from large animal suppliers, where the quality is poor, illnesses are common & there is no personal relationship between supplier & shop.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

MadManc said:


> Where do pet shop owners generally get supplies from? Are there any majotr suppliers or is it down to finding a local one?
> 
> Been thinking about this myself lately, suppliers are the first things i would get sorted personally.


 
when it comes to supplies all you need to do is look up trade pet supplies on the net. pet foods, im still looking for suppliers. animals i will be using simons rodents


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> animals i will be using simons rodents


That's a huge shame, was all sounding very positive


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## MadManc (Jan 9, 2011)

rosanna123 said:


> when it comes to supplies all you need to do is look up trade pet supplies on the net. pet foods, im still looking for suppliers. animals i will be using simons rodents


I googled it the other week and there was a minefield of info to work through, someone on here already in the game might be prepared to share hard earned info on the subject, that info could turn out to be priceless.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Kare said:


> That's a huge shame, was all sounding very positive


well do you know of any other animal suppliers. i have been tallking with some other people in the classified chat and most of them have not had any problems with simons rodents. but if you can suggest any other suppliers/breeders willing to sell to a pet shop then please do let me know


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

oh this is my drean but we could never afford one, the shops that have been forsale are asking too much money for what they were taking :whistling2:
i would like to wish you the best of luck 
ann xxxx


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

MadManc said:


> Where do pet shop owners generally get supplies from? Are there any majotr suppliers or is it down to finding a local one?
> 
> Been thinking about this myself lately, suppliers are the first things i would get sorted personally.


they get from company wholesales like pedigree pets ( not the dog fodd company the animal feed wholesale company ) they provide big books and you order from them also other companies such as burgess, supreme eukanuba tyou buy direct from them


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> when it comes to supplies all you need to do is look up trade pet supplies on the net. pet foods, im still looking for suppliers. *animals i will be using simons rodents*


Then be prepared for many disatisfied custoemrs, having to have animals put to sleep, having to get on the phone to complain lots, etc etc


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have said that if any one can tell me of any others suppliers, i am more than happy to see what they have to offer. and it is only a small % of people who have had problems with simons rodents (see thread in classified chat)


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Then be prepared for many disatisfied custoemrs, having to have animals put to sleep, having to get on the phone to complain lots, etc etc


i dont know who this person is so cant comment but if thats true look around research and get your animals from the best people dont just go to the first person you find because they are cheap :whistling2:
have the best you will have satisfied customers 
you need healthy animals to have a healthy buisness
i personally was going to breed my own and get from people i know if we did it then i know the history and know the breeding so therefore i would have healthy animals :2thumb:
oh remember 
a - and learn how to sex animals especialy rabbits
b - remember rabbits and guinnea pigs cant be kept together 
c - provide the best housing for the animals nice big hutches, cages etc not the horried little rabbit hutches shops provide a rabbit requires at least 4 ft hutch bigger if in pairs 
d - know about the animals you sell best housing how to sex etc thats what annoys me about pet shops when they have no idea what they are talking about 
e - provide in the shop nice housing for the animals space toys etc as there is nothing worse than animals crammed in small cages 
f - do a survey find out what people want no point keeping in stock no one wants 
g -dont have so many that you cant cope all animals will need cleaning out every day !!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> i have said that if any one can tell me of any others suppliers, i am more than happy to see what they have to offer. and it is only a small % of people who have had problems with simons rodents (see thread in classified chat)


I used to work at a Pets At Home store for 5 years. They use suppliers similar to Simons Rodents. Every week I saw rabbits come in with bloat, the runs, weepy eyes, etc. Rodents would come in stinking & we had to work through them all to find out which ones had wet tail & make sure they were sexed correctly (they never were). Birds would come in with injuries, & adult birds would try to be passed off as youngsters. 

When me & my OH had a pet shop, we used only local breeders for all our livestock (apart from fish). I had a freind who bred hamsters, gerbils, rats & mice. A few great breeders of rabbits. A few bird breeders who produced fab quality birds. I had a goo dfriend supply me with baby tortoises that he bred, I had breeders of snakes, lizards, invertebrates, etc. The quality of these aniamls as opposed to those from large suppliers (more like factory farmed animals) was vast!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

yyeah, i am going to breed but all my stock will have to be kept in the shop as the OH dont want them in the flat. but i still need starter stock to use for breeding and some extra to sell while the others are breeding, if you get what i mean, sorry i am a bit hard to understand at times lol


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have said that if any one can tell me of any others suppliers, i am more than happy to see what they have to offer. and it is only a small % of people who have had problems with simons rodents (see thread in classified chat)


 this is somthing you need to research propperly contact other pet shops look at their animals ask who their providers are etc they should be ok with that as you wont be competing with them
when you find out contact them go see their set up see how they are kept ask about breeding lines any good breeder will not refuse to do this if they do well dont use them as they may have something to hide  
search the internet for local breeders im not sure where you are based but rabbits your better talking with brc breeders of mini lops, mini rex, english, dutch, rabbits they are the most popular pets 
our pet shop buys them in at £7 - £10 and sells them for £20 
i dont provide to pet shops as i like to know where my babies are going but some will 
good luck 
ann xx


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## jazzywoo (Sep 24, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> I used to work at a Pets At Home store for 5 years. They use suppliers similar to Simons Rodents. Every week I saw rabbits come in with bloat, the runs, weepy eyes, etc. Rodents would come in stinking & we had to work through them all to find out which ones had wet tail & make sure they were sexed correctly (they never were). Birds would come in with injuries, & adult birds would try to be passed off as youngsters.
> 
> When me & my OH had a pet shop, we used only local breeders for all our livestock (apart from fish). I had a freind who bred hamsters, gerbils, rats & mice. A few great breeders of rabbits. A few bird breeders who produced fab quality birds. I had a goo dfriend supply me with baby tortoises that he bred, I had breeders of snakes, lizards, invertebrates, etc. The quality of these aniamls as opposed to those from large suppliers (more like factory farmed animals) was vast!


thats the best way of doing it and what i would do use local people check them out properly never take someones word for it go see for my self lol ok im fussy 
and your right big mass breeders care for money not animals and well its asking for trouble :whistling2:


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

As others have said, by far the best way to do it is to make local contacts with breeders to supply you. I have nothing against any wholesalers at all and I do use several very high quality wholesalers for reptiles (don't sell furries so really can't comment on that), but if you buy direct from a breeder than you generally can buy them cheaper and have better quality and if local, you can usually see the animal and confirm it's the correct size, sex, type etc. before you part with cash - rather than having animals delivered on a van and they may not be exactly what you were looking for.

Wholesalers themselves have to either import; or buy from breeders, most don't do the bulk of breeding themselves (At least with reptiles anyway) - by buying direct from a breeder you're cutting out the middle man. Whether a wholesaler is high quality or not, there is obviously stress and quarantine potential if a large amount of animals are being moved in vans or kept on the same premises, whereas a local breeder can minimise any stress on the animal as they come direct to you. In some cases you need to use wholesalers, especially for rare/unusual or imported animals, but personally, if an animal is widely bred in the UK you should be okay to get hold of it direct from a breeder.

Building up contacts and relationships with the community is something that takes a lot of time and research and there's no real list people can give you as to where you can buy them from.

Once you're open and up and running you will also find your contacts expand a lot quicker, people will call up and visit in store and ask you to buy their animals so you dont have to go out and look for people quite so much.

You could also try placing wanted adverts in local newspapers and online, stating that you're a retailer looking for business relationships with local breeders and see if you get any good responses.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

well i am hoping to sell a little bit of everything a couple of exotic mammals, some inverts, some birds, some reptiles, some fish, some of the normal animals you would see in a pet shop and im gonna have a list of animals i can "order" in shall we say, so that if i dont have what the customer is looking for i can always order it


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Athravan said:


> As others have said, by far the best way to do it is to make local contacts with breeders to supply you. I have nothing against any wholesalers at all and I do use several very high quality wholesalers for reptiles (don't sell furries so really can't comment on that), but if you buy direct from a breeder than you generally can buy them cheaper and have better quality and if local, you can usually see the animal and confirm it's the correct size, sex, type etc. before you part with cash - rather than having animals delivered on a van and they may not be exactly what you were looking for.
> 
> Wholesalers themselves have to either import; or buy from breeders, most don't do the bulk of breeding themselves (At least with reptiles anyway) - by buying direct from a breeder you're cutting out the middle man. Whether a wholesaler is high quality or not, there is obviously stress and quarantine potential if a large amount of animals are being moved in vans or kept on the same premises, whereas a local breeder can minimise any stress on the animal as they come direct to you. In some cases you need to use wholesalers, especially for rare/unusual or imported animals, but personally, if an animal is widely bred in the UK you should be okay to get hold of it direct from a breeder.
> 
> ...


Good post! :2thumb:

We used to use a wholesaler for reptiles, until we had half of their livestock die, they sent baby corns that had never fed, & we hada questionable case of cryptospiridium from them! After that, I decided to scrap them & just build up a local base of breeders.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> well i am hoping to sell a little bit of everything a couple of exotic mammals, some inverts, some birds, some reptiles, some fish, some of the normal animals you would see in a pet shop and *im gonna have a list of animals i can "order" in shall we say, so that if i dont have what the customer is looking for i can always order it*


Order it? From where?


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## emmabee (Oct 29, 2010)

hi, another little bit of advice!!! 
you really need to look into your business rates too! if a retail space is over a certain size the rates are crippling. you do get a reduction but its not really that much! before you sign any lease find out what the rates are and what reduction you will be entitled to.
another thing to find out is if you will be entitled to any tax credits, i am self employed and i am entitled to them. its not much money but my god it helps you when you first start a business!
also put some budget aside for marketing and advertising, dont underestimate how important they are! try to get local press coverage of your opening, its free and local people read local papers!
have a look in your town and see if they have a business advice centre. they will be able to help you with a business plan, are aware of any local grant systems and not just ones from the government (charaties and the princes trust for example) they will also be able to help you apply for these grants.
they can help with tax and vat issues and if you employ any staff how you do this, they will even give book keeping and accounting lessons!! most towns have one and your local council or job centre should be able to help you. there is a lot of help available you just have to look in the right places!!!!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> Order it? From where?


from simons rodents. or other breeders if i can find some in my area


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

emmabee said:


> hi, another little bit of advice!!!
> *you really need to look into your business rates too! if a retail space is over a certain size the rates are crippling*. you do get a reduction but its not really that much! before you sign any lease find out what the rates are and what reduction you will be entitled to.
> another thing to find out is if you will be entitled to any tax credits, i am self employed and i am entitled to them. its not much money but my god it helps you when you first start a business!
> also put some budget aside for marketing and advertising, dont underestimate how important they are! try to get local press coverage of your opening, its free and local people read local papers!
> ...


Definately!


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## adthatch (Feb 27, 2010)

I looked into setting up a pet shop last year. I don't know if this rule varies depending on the council but in Hampshire new applications for a pet shop licence require at least one member of staff to hold a City & Guilds Pet Store Management Certificate or at least be studying for it & get qualified within 2 years.


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## sjl02 (May 31, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> when it comes to supplies all you need to do is look up trade pet supplies on the net. pet foods, im still looking for suppliers. animals i will be using simons rodents


There's 2 major pet supply distributors. Most big ones there were more but have had to merge in recent years! Vital pet products is the biggest and cheapest vital is a merge between batleys & chay ( I use vital) and pedigree wholesale nothing to do with the brand.more expensive than vital and min spend is higher! Vital have nearly dbl amount of products than pedigree too. If ur not buying a ready made shop ur looking at around 20k to fully stock a 'small' shop before animals. I don't sell pets at my place I know the owners of about 6/7 other independent pet shops in the nxt few towns and they all use private breeders only!


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## sjl02 (May 31, 2010)

adthatch said:


> I looked into setting up a pet shop last year. I don't know if this rule varies depending on the council but in Hampshire new applications for a pet shop licence require at least one member of staff to hold a City & Guilds Pet Store Management Certificate or at least be studying for it & get qualified within 2 years.


Yep this is correct was introduced I think about 8/10 yrs ago now. You can't sell pets in a shop with out this!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thank you all, i will look up the companies etc. that have been mentioned


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> i have said that if any one can tell me of any others suppliers, i am more than happy to see what they have to offer. and it is only a small % of people who have had problems with simons rodents (see thread in classified chat)


 
Only because people were pm'ing me with the 'alternative' comments should we say.
Take it from me there were quite a few 'alternative' experiences with this company.
Before anyone asks I deleted the pm's as all I wanted to know in my thread was whether I was making the correct decision in not letting breeders with their syrians have my babies to breed to them.

Every year there are numerous 'I'm going to open a petshop' threads. Most don't come to fruition, I wish you luck in your venture, maybe some think it's a lot easier than it actually is?
I'm sorry Rosanna but I think you're trying to run before you can walk again the same as your other thread about wanting to start breeding rodents without really putting much 'serious' thought into it.

I do wish you all the luck in doing this as it has always been something I would like to do thorughout my life, which has been quite a long one, even with all the grants etc you will need a hell of a lot of your own money to setup and keep it going though.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i always put serious thought into everything i do. i am taking my time with this. planning it out. checking what grants i can get and how much my inishall lay out will before goig any therfer


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I don't want to sound negative but you need to do a LOT more research. 

Although my field isn't pets I've been in retail for 15 years and it is hard, hard work being an independent retailer, even more so with the current recession. Probably 50% of the shops that open here close down within the first 6 months.

Do you have a business plan? Without one you haven't a hope of getting any funding.

What's your competition? Because if you have a chain like [email protected] nearby you've not a hope of competing with them on price. Remember on things like feed you'll be undercut by local supermarkets too.

How much cash do you have to invest in starting this up? There will be upfront payments and deposits to pay before you've even opened, and most suppliers will also expect you to pay up front if you have no trading history.

Can you afford to live with NO income, or even a loss until you've established the business and gained a reputation?

Sorry to be so negative. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but I think you're rushing into this. Every week you post with a new venture. Each one bigger than the last. You could lose a lot of money if you're not careful.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

vonnie said:


> I don't want to sound negative but you need to do a LOT more research.
> 
> Although my field isn't pets I've been in retail for 15 years and it is hard, hard work being an independent retailer, even more so with the current recession. Probably 50% of the shops that open here close down within the first 6 months.
> 
> ...


This is all very true - I've read on another of your posts that you are only 21 have two very young children, have a disabled boyfriend and only just manage to scrape by - your words.

You are going to need a lot of money to start up the business and to keep it running, particularly in today's economic climate with so many shops closing down.

I wish you luck.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

vonnie said:


> I don't want to sound negative but you need to do a LOT more research.
> 
> Although my field isn't pets I've been in retail for 15 years and it is hard, hard work being an independent retailer, even more so with the current recession. Probably 50% of the shops that open here close down within the first 6 months.
> 
> ...


 
i am currently writing a business plan. 

there is a [email protected] 45 mins away. we also have a lidl and a vet where i live but they hardly sell anything. also [email protected] are very expensive compared to any pet shop i have been in. 

i dont have any money of my own to invest. i have lookedon the net and found out that there are alot of grants and help that i can get, due to being on benifits. i also have my ex boyfriend, friends and family helping me out. 

i wont be living on no money as i am allowed to carry on claiming my benifits for the first 3 months of my business being set up. and the only income we will lose in my income support and our housing benifit. 

i dont post a new venture every week, the only one i have posted is for breeding various species of mice and selling mouse supplies online.


AND TO STEPHEN P: yes i am 21, i dont see what my age has to do with it. yes i do have 2 yound childern that are both in nursery so i dont see why this would be a problem. and yes i do have a disabled boyfreind, i dont see what this has to do with it as he will be helping me in the shop.

yes i did say that we only just scrap through but thing have picked up now.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

No grant is gonna cover everything - you will need some money of your own to set up - be that from taking out loans or using savings.
you will need £1000's to start up.
You will need to be at the shop from 8am - 7pm so is there someone to take care of the kids then ( even thou u wont be open til 7am you will still be at the shop making up the till , cleaning up the shop and locking up ) 
I think its totally unrealistic to think you can start something like this up with not a penny to your name to be honest.
Also you can claim benefits for 3 months - what happen after that ? its well proven that most shops take a couple of yrs to make a profit so what will u live in those yrs ?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

be prepared for at least half of your customers to be complete yahoos...

i've worked in and ran a few shops...

terribly hard work... you have to be all things.. and the money sucks...

be prepared to answer any question about any animal at all times...

practice talking on the phone, cleaning a cage and ringing a customer up all at the same time...:whistling2:


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## beardys (Sep 28, 2009)

srry buy why should the goverment give you a grant for you to start up a buisiness where is you are going to make profit to go in your pocket??? 

not being funny just a simple question. and good luck with it


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

beardys said:


> srry buy why should the goverment give you a grant for you to start up a buisiness where is you are going to make profit to go in your pocket???
> 
> not being funny just a simple question. and good luck with it


erm, taxes?

employees?... more taxes...


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

yes, there is someone to look after my kids, MY BOYFRIEND. i have said that i also have MY EX, MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY all helping me out with this. i know how much i need to start this up, i have run a music shop before. so it is not like this is my first time in a shop. does no-one actually read what is written here, cos it seems like you just go off on one for no actual reason other that what you have thought up


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## emmabee (Oct 29, 2010)

being a single mother when i set up my business (nothing to do with pets so i cant help you in that way!) there is help out there. you can get your childcare paid as long as its with a regestered childminder or nursery, you will also get the maximum award for tax credits and with the help of an adviser from the local council you will be able to get housing benefit until you start to turn a profit. the housing benefit one is a nightmare but it is there you will just need some help from someone who knows benefits! also on the NVQ side, if you do not have an NVQ level 2 you will be entitled to get this course free of charge, hope this is of some help!
please dont take this the wrong way but do NOT expect to turn a profit in your first 2 years, it just wont happen!


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## emmabee (Oct 29, 2010)

oh and as an after thought!!! can you find local breeders who will let you sell animals on their behalf and put a commission on? that way you will have stock in your shop and not have the massive outlay of paying up front for the stock? i know we will be doing this with our offspring in the future.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

No, I've read it through and like I said it will cost you a lot of money. However, its going to be your ex's, family and friends money so you won't loose anything, but they might.

I admire you at your age hoping to start up a business but I just think the amount of hours you will have to work and the small amount you will earn really needs to be taken into consideration. It could also put a lot of pressure on your relationship as your boyfriend will be looking after the children and you will return home late in the day and go out early in the morning. You won't have a lot of spare time to spend together as a family.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

we already have it all planned


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> yes, there is someone to look after my kids, MY BOYFRIEND. i have said that i also have MY EX, MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY all helping me out with this. i know how much i need to start this up, i have run a music shop before. so it is not like this is my first time in a shop. does no-one actually read what is written here, cos it seems like you just go off on one for no actual reason other that what you have thought up


To be fair, we can only go on your post history, and you come across like a kid playing dress-up. In the past four months you've wanted to be an 'invert rescue centre' a mousery, a dog breeder, get a skunk etc. It just seems like you don't really know what you want. Why not just enjoy your boyfriend and children for a bit and not rush into anything?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

I was thinking about an invert rescue but thought against it. I did get a skunk, i have bred my dog, i pulled him off the classified as a stud dog due to the remarks i was getting. I am running a mousery but i am incorperating it with the shop.


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> I was thinking about an invert rescue but thought against it. I did get a skunk, i have bred my dog, i pulled him off the classified as a stud dog due to the remarks i was getting. I am running a mousery but i am incorperating it with the shop.


The remarks you got about your dog were spot on, and you're not running a mousery. Three APDs does not equal a mousery :lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, so i dont have the other mice yet. i am waiting for them to be weaned


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

and how were the remarks about my dog spot on. if i want to breed my dog, then i can. if someone wants to breed there dog with mine and i say yes then wat is the problem. it has nothing to do with anyone else, no-one had any right to comment unless they were intrested in breeding with my dog


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## kirksandallchinchillas (Sep 29, 2009)

I think opening a pet shop in a recession is risky - 2 large independant pet shops in my town have closed in the last few months. When money is tight people cut back on luxuries first - they stop buying pets and cut back on treats, etc.

I was talking to on of the pet shop owners before he closed and some months his rent and rates were more than his takings.

You have said you can get your benfits for 3 months after starting work - but if you are on Income Support and most other benefits this ends as soon as you as you start working full time unless you also receive Carers Allowance when other rules apply. 
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...herSupport/Employedorlookingforwork/index.htm

This is a usful site for new busainsss too
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...room/DG_193356&domain=www.businesslink.gov.uk


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Just what the world needs, another pet shop selling animals.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

can i ask what you mean by that LISALQ


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Just what the world needs, another pet shop selling animals.


yep!

i agree... the world needs more pet shops!

a walmart sized pet shop!:no1:

:whistling2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> can i ask what you mean by that LISALQ


I'm one of the few people who believes pets should be adopted from rescues or bought from reputable breeders, not from pet shops.

Having seen what kind of conditions mass breeders keep their animals in, I wouldn't buy a pet shop animal again, or recommend anyone else did.

Unless they wanted a small, unhealthy, possibly pregnant animal, that is. Or just had no care for animal welfare.

TBH if someone was going to open a pet shop responsibly (which I'm not sure is actually possible), I would hope it wouldn't be someone who'd pimp out their dog for hundreds of pounds not having even done health tests.

There are things best left to intelligent responsible adults. Anyhoo - you say you've owned a shop before....what happened to it?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

HABU said:


> yep!
> 
> i agree... the world needs more pet shops!
> 
> ...


We have a great pet supermarket in our town. Been there years and years, and they dont sell animals.

That's my kind of pet shop!


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Totally agree Lisa - pets should not be sold in pet shops - thankfully more and more people agree. 

Rosanna you are certainly not doing yourself any favours on here.
If you want your mousery and online shop to be successful then you are going about it the wrong way as reading thru your posts many many people on here would not use the shop/mousery as they would want someone responsible who had put thought and effort into it and you really dont come accross like that on the posts about breeding your dogs and where you would get your animals from ( simons rodents ) and who is to say that you wont get some of your own breeding animals from the same place ( people would be suspicious thats for sure )


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Teach me to read the whole thread before I post.

I'll amend my initial post.

Just what the world needs, another pet shop stocking Simon's Rodents animals.

Not.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

in my area there are qiute a few pet shops, however the ones that are doing best are the ones that dont sell any animals other than fish. the one closest to me sells loads of little cheap things for kids to buy there pets alongside the more expensive cat towers, luxery dog beds ect. come saturday morning he has a massive cue of kiddies franticly buying sparkly cat toys and blokes spending a bomb on customised harnesses for there dogs. as he puts it, animals cost a fortune to keep healthy, house correctly, feed ect. the stuff he sells dosent get ill, dosent need cleaning out and dosent mean he has to call in every day to make sure there still alive.

times are tough, people are shopping around more. a freind of mine wanted 2 rabbits for her little lad. she looked at prices in pets at home and other pet shops then compared it with adoption prices from the rspca, for (i think) a fiver more than pet shop price her rspca rabbits are castrated, vaccinated and they made sure to pair her up with the best rabbits for her son. how many pet shops can compete with that?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

They can do "buy mum, get litter free!"...

*disclaimer* that was not serious.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i did not pimp my dog out for hundreds of pounds. i asked for advice not abuse. and not for past threads to be brought up. yes i said i would buy from simons rodents because i have heard good things about them. most of you are going on here say about them. how many of you have actually been there or brought animals from them. and NO my breeding stock was not coming from them, as SR were too expencive. i am getting my stock from a breeder. i have taken on board what people on here have siad and i will be looking for local breeders. all because i metioned that i would buy from SR you have gone off on one.

I NEVER SAID THAT I OWNED A SHOP, I SAID I RAN A SHOP. the owner died and so the shop was sold, it was doing really well


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

I think the op needs a reality check to even think that the government is going to hand out enough money to set up a pet shop is naive at best.

You will need somewhere in the region of 20000 just to get you started .
I reckon you`ll need to spend about 10000 stocking your shop .

Most people buy their tinned dog and cat food from supermarkets ,you`ll be lucky to buy it in for what they sell it for unless your buying hundreds of units.

And think about why there is no pet shop near you ,if there was a market for one i`m sure one would be set up already.

Working in the pet trade is cleaning ,cleaning and oh more cleaning.

You`ll need to turnover 2000 a week just to cover your costs .

Its a nice idea and i`m sure many of us have thought about setting up a small pet,aquatic,reptile shop but unless you can set something up that sets you apart and is impressive enough for people to travel then i think you will struggle.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have thought of all this and i will be diffrent. as i have said i will be seeing just what grants and loans etc. i can get, i need approx £23,500 to set up. as i have siad i have put alot of thought into this, worked every thing out to the last penny.


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

rosanna123 said:


> i did not pimp my dog out for hundreds of pounds. i asked for advice not abuse. and not for past threads to be brought up. yes i said i would buy from simons rodents because i have heard good things about them. most of you are going on here say about them. how many of you have actually been there or brought animals from them. and NO my breeding stock was not coming from them, as SR were too expencive. i am getting my stock from a breeder. i have taken on board what people on here have siad and i will be looking for local breeders. all because i metioned that i would buy from SR you have gone off on one.
> 
> I NEVER SAID THAT I OWNED A SHOP, I SAID I RAN A SHOP. the owner died and so the shop was sold, it was doing really well


Um, yes, you were pimping your dog out:


> the way i look at it these days every thing is to make money and why not, at the moment we need all the money we can get. and if hamish can help us then so be it. my boyfriend is disabled and i have 2 young children. we do have alot of troble afford what we need. most of the time we just scrape by.


 Your words


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok then ANYONE WHO BREEDS THERE DOG IS CLASSED AS PIMPING IT OUT is that what you are saying or are you just having a bitch at me about something that has nothing to do with this thread. if you have a problem with me then take it to a mod. or PM me stop making it public as i believe that is against forum rules (im not sure)


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

No - speaking as a breeder, there is a huge difference between offering a mongrel up for stud in order to make money, and breeding responsibly in order to better a species. 

And yes, in my naivety I've had several Simon's Rodents rats. Directly and indirectly. I had one double rex boy that couldn't be handled without serious biting, he died at about 18 months IIRC. I also had three babies from a litter born after their mum was taken from the pet shop pregnant. One died at 9 weeks, the other two had lifelong heart conditions. Lifelong would suggest they had a long life, they didn't. The rest of their litter weren't healthy either.

Simon's Rodents and their like are the scum of the earth, and pet shops who sell animals are no better because they condone this treatment and say it's ok in the name of profit. The farms keep rats in tubs - in crappy conditions, no handling, no thought goes into their breeding, they just breed a mum til she's half dead, then when she's no good for making more, you can bet where she ends up. Babies dont get any handling, and are scooped out of their tubs into boxes for shipping, then wanged in tanks in pet shops scared witless. They are sick and psychologically damaged goods.

For those who genuinely care about animal welfare (ie not the OP!), then this is why many of us actively avoid pet shop animals:
Rodent Farm

TBH the world does not need any more pet shops. With online sales, and good breeders and rescues becoming the more popular option, you're destined to fail.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

I do care about my animals, you have no idea what i am like, or how i treat my animals. I tell you what when i open my shop i will invite you down to take a look at it and then you can see the conditions the animals are kept in. I will also bring you to my flat if you want and you can see the animals i have here and see how they are kept, then i will even take you to the yard where my horses are and show you how they are kept. Would that make you happy, so then you may stop having a go at me. If you want i will pm you my address and you can come down when ever you want, just turn up and see how my animals are kept


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## Solitaire (Dec 6, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> No - speaking as a breeder, there is a huge difference between offering a mongrel up for stud in order to make money, and breeding responsibly in order to better a species.
> 
> And yes, in my naivety I've had several Simon's Rodents rats. Directly and indirectly. I had one double rex boy that couldn't be handled without serious biting, he died at about 18 months IIRC. I also had three babies from a litter born after their mum was taken from the pet shop pregnant. One died at 9 weeks, the other two had lifelong heart conditions. Lifelong would suggest they had a long life, they didn't. The rest of their litter weren't healthy either.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's that she doesn't care, it's just a bit of ..... misguided enthusiasm??


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

*if you want LISALQ go on my facebook and take a look at the pictures on there of all my animals and then tell me they are not cared for Welcome to Facebook*

*go through all my pics of my kids, my boyfriend everything if you want. *
*i would say to get in touch with barclay outerbridge, to find out how i treat animals but he is dead now. so why dont you just call the british racing school, newmarket or the national stud, newmarket or stanley house stud, newmarket. as i have worked at all of these. they will tell you how much i care for animals*


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Solitaire said:


> Um, yes, you were pimping your dog out: Your words


:lol2: BUSTED!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Get a grip dear, I dont want to see any of that, why would I care about seeing pics of you and your kids? :lol2:

You need to grow up a bit - take things slowly and think things through. Going from scraping the bottom of your purse to starting a business isn't as easy as it sounds, even less so running a pet shop - let's face it, there's many many of them - you're up against biggies like [email protected] and Jollyes which are much cheaper, plus eBay etc.

Unless you've got something remarkably different to offer, you're going to need one hell of a lot of back up money for the first year or two. And if your boyfriend's disabled, how's he going to care for the kids AND help in the shop, as you've said in here?

Now stop over-reacting, take a deep breath and think it through a bit more. Why not start saving up now and start your business in 5-10 years, when the kids are more independent and you have more money in the bank to settle with?

I didnt say you didn't care FOR your animals, but I did say I dont think you care ABOUT animal welfare in general. I wouldn't use my pets for profit or to help me through tough times. If I couldn't afford to feed my family, I wouldn't be buying and selling pets in the first place. I think it's unfair to say you care about animals, but you'll support mass breeding in horrible conditions in order to make a profit. Think it through. Do you sound very caring?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have thought it through, i have been thinking about this for a long, long time. i have alot of people helping me out with this and so i don't see where i can go home. where you live [email protected] may be cheap, but where i live they are very expensive, they are also 45mins away, the nearest jollys is over an hour away, and alot of people in my town rely on public transport to get to them shops, where as i will be just down the road saving them money on transport, and products. 

the way you were talking it was as if i didnt care for my animals, hence i offered for you to come and look at the animals i own. the animals in my shop will have the best of care, the enclosures will be the right size for them if not bigger and no animal i sell will be sold with out a care sheet so that the new owner will know how to care for the animal properly. i am going to be looking for local breeders and so i will not be using SR. so you will have to worry no more. but if i may say, if SR are so bad then how come the RSPCA have not shut them down, and why have the pet care trust they are registered with had no complaints about them, as i have been in touch with the pet care trust and they have heard nothing bad about them. they also told me that if any-one was to have a problem with SR, then they should get in touch so that they may investigate it.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

I know youve mentioned not too far back that youve worked out youll need about £23,500 but youve also mentioned you have nothing saved and plan to do it on government funding. Surely they arnt going to be dishing that sort of money out funding new bussiness when large business chains are still going bust from the recession. A few £1000k maybe but I cant see £23,500 being handed to you in all honesty.

Me and James aim to be able to open up our own reptile/exotics shop in the future, but we know its going to be a long way away (5-10 years+ probably) As we first want our own place and then to save and get as much in depth research done on all species we would like to have available etc. We are planning to save at least £20,000-£30,000 minium to be able to set it up.

Good luck.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Supermarkets are killing the independant pet shops, as no pet shop can compete with their prices! Be warned!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

super markets dont stock half the stock that i will. 

yes i did say that i will need that much to start up. i am going to the jobcenter on tuesday to find out how much i can get in govt. grants, i will also be finding out what other grants from other places i can get as well. i have been offered a £20,000 grant that i do not have to pay back but i am finding out whether it is a scam or not before i take them up on the offer


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> *super markets dont stock half the stock that i will. *
> 
> yes i did say that i will need that much to start up. i am going to the jobcenter on tuesday to find out how much i can get in govt. grants, i will also be finding out what other grants from other places i can get as well. i have been offered a £20,000 grant that i do not have to pay back but i am finding out whether it is a scam or not before i take them up on the offer


 
No, but most pet food purcahsers will, for ease, just pick up some crappy Bakers or Pedigree from ASDA's shelf as they are there already doing the weekly shop, because "they're dog likes it".


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thats fine but where would they be getting all there other pet foods from


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> thats fine but where would they be getting all there other pet foods from


Of course, there are the sensible people who buy brands such as James Well Beloved, Burns, etc that are not available at supermarkets (yet!) but overall, these people are not the majority. 

Next time your in ASDA, take a look at their pet ailses - they sell dog food, cat food, cat litter, dog toys, cat toys, collars, flea & worm treatments, treats, dishes, fish food, fish gravel, fish bowls, budgie food, budgie treat sticks, wild bird food, rabbit food, hanster food, guinea pig food, hay, shavings, & others! Thats a lot for owners of the commoner types of pets. And Argos now sell reptile vivs & equipment!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

the only super markets of any type close to where i live is lidl, everything else is over an hour away if not more


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## ambyglam (Nov 16, 2009)

sargie said:


> Good old tories lol im glad i didn't vote them in, they are definately not for the working person.


lolll thats the funniest thing ive read all day... maybe its because theres no money in the country as the last crowd spent it all on people who do nothing all day!

I have 3 businesses and I started them all with very little money of which none was grants or funding!

If people want something...save up for it...dont get into debt for anything nowadays!


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> the only super markets of any type close to where i live is lidl, everything else is over an hour away if not more


your webpage is saying u live in Bexhill-on-sea - there is a PAH in Bexhill-on-sea 
there is also a tesco in bexhill on sea
there is an asda 2.5 miles from bexhill ( so hardly an hour for most people )
So no idea where u get this idea from that there is no shops where u live unless u travel an hour LOL


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## ukphd (Mar 29, 2008)

To be honest I think the biggest competition will be the online shops. People who buy foods not readily available in the supermarkets tend to buy them online. I know I do. It's far far cheaper than any pet shop I've found and it arrives at my door without me needing to do anything. I think your challenge will be beating the online retailers.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

A quick Google search using Yell.com - now I appreciate it may not be right up to date but it showed:

3 Pet Shops in Bexhill itself
3 Pet Food Suppliers/Pet Suppliers within 4 miles
12 Pet Food Suppliers/Pet Supplies within 10 (or 10.5) miles

which included two large chains

There were pages of Pet listings including Dog Walkers, Groomers etc.

Plus, as of course already mentioned, the Supermarkets there and in Hastings and other nearby surrounding areas.


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Supermarkets are killing the independant pet shops, as no pet shop can compete with their prices! Be warned!


I used to work in a pet shop, and for a while Asda were selling cans of Chappie to customers at a cheaper price than we could buy them from our supplier. 
There are an awful lot of costs involved in running a pet shop you need to do some serious homework. 

However I don't always think that having other shops nearby is necessarily a problem. In my local area (within a 20 min drive) there are 6 pet shops, 2 of those stores are an Acorn. We also have 2 Asdas, a tescos and a sainsbury's. And numerous other small stores which sell assorted pet items. 
There is obviously competition, but different stores attract different customers. The shop I used to work in is ideally located making it easy for people to access by car, bus, or by walking if you live nearby. Also we were big on customer service and were trained to be knowledgeable in everything we sold. 

So while it may be hard, it can be done if you really want to go for it. I don't know anything about how much it costs to set up, but it's a lot.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Shadowz said:


> your webpage is saying u live in Bexhill-on-sea - there is a PAH in Bexhill-on-sea
> there is also a tesco in bexhill on sea
> there is an asda 2.5 miles from bexhill ( so hardly an hour for most people )
> So no idea where u get this idea from that there is no shops where u live unless u travel an hour LOL


 
i live out side bexhill-on-sea but where i live is classed as bexhill, i would like to know where that asda is cos the nearer to here in eastbourne and that is at least 15-16 mile away. 

[email protected] and tesco are quite away from me and so it does take an hour on the bus to get to them.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> A quick Google search using Yell.com - now I appreciate it may not be right up to date but it showed:
> 
> 3 Pet Shops in Bexhill itself
> 3 Pet Food Suppliers/Pet Suppliers within 4 miles
> ...


3 PET SHOPS- i can only think of 2 unless you count in the horse food suppliers

3 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS- i can only think of 3 horse food suppliers within 4 mile

12 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS IN 10 MILE- only if you include all of the above and go to hastings


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

by all means go to the jobcentre, i did when i was setting up my buisness. they will help you (or to be more precise put you in touch with the company who has the contract with them to help people start up on there own) but you have to sign on and its very unlikely you'l get a grant. the way the cuts are going at the minute tbh you'd have more chance on dragons den. i cant fault the help i got from my buisness advisor, i couldnt have set up without him, but the most cash i got was jobseekers allowence plus travel expenses.


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## Skarlet (Nov 8, 2009)

There is a new Asda in Hastings (Silverhill) so not that far away now.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

but for most people its a 5 mins drive ( even if it take longer on the bus ) 
so most people would simply drive to the other places for their pet supplies and people who dont drive would more then likely order online so they dont have a cart it all home by hand.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Won't you lose your carers allowance as well if you start to be self employed?
Presuming your OH is disabled enough to require a carer of course.

Also think of the other 'benefits' you will lose if you, as you say, lose the IS that your family get for yourself, your OH and the kids etc.

If you are claiming seperately then a lot of the benefit losses that you yourself will lose can be covered with your OH's InCap and DLA, again presuming he has these, as none of these will be taken into consideration.
I would say if your OH is disabled, depending on disability, the DWA would not be very happy if he was 'helping' in the shop or taking care of the kids almost 24/7.
He would have to declare whatever he was helping with and in these times, where they are trying to get people off disability, they may recind his entitlement as well.

A lot of people who set up in self employment actually have less money for the first few years as others have said.

I know my OH who is also disabled would not be able to physically do those things.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I have 3 cats, 2 guinea pigs, a rescue hamster and zillions of rats (well, 30ish).

The _only_ thing I use my pet shop for is frozen food for the snakes. If I could get that online without buying in bulk or having to spend ridiculous amounts on delivery, I would.

Everything else I either get at the feed supplier (bedding, food), or online (treats, accessories). Jollye's on occasion when I need something urgently. I rarely use [email protected] either - but at least they have the buffer of being a HUGE company.

Small businesses are going under all the time, especially pet shops. Look at your local pet shops - or others in the area - I'm sure you'll be able to count several changes of hands over the years.

Why not try starting an online business? No shop outlay, could be a way of building up some money for when you're ready to start for real?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

That sounds a better idea Lisa.
A lot easier as well I should think if Roseanna can find storage for the goods.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I think you should reconsider the live animal bit but apart from that it's good that you at least have some aspirations and don't see your self on benefits forever.What about starting with a market stall?Or giving it a try at the summer market/boot sales combined with online service.My friend bought the petshop he worked in.He's got rid of most of the animals.Just a few hamsters rabbits and guinea pigs because they didn't make any money.I spend a lot of money on animal stuff and I've really tried to be a loyal customer .He lets me down all the time though,not by choice but sometimes he can't justify spending the minimum a wholesaler requires for an order because he's ran out of my bits.So now I get my dog food from [email protected] which is actually more expensive than him on frozen meat but reliable.I get my hay and bedding/shavings from a farm shop because there is a big price difference that makes it worth a drive out.One good thing he has done is to let out a room upstairs to a dog groomer which helps.He's just holding his head above water and the shop pays 3 wages.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

my advice?

get a job in a pet shop and have a mentor... the owner there showing you the ropes and letting you see what's all involved... get tips and tricks and ideas...

my former boss who owned the shop did this before opening his own shop... he did the crap jobs as well as the books and ordering... got educated firsthand before plunging in himself...


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

The OP is, as my mum would say, living in cloud cuckoo land !

You've not said anything that would persuade me that you have the faintest idea about setting up and running a business. And you certainly won't have a hope in hell of persuading anyone to give you a grant unless you research this in a LOT more detail.

One of the first things that they will want to see is that you can show them there is a market for your business in that area. That means knowing the details of all your competitors (and in a geographical radius, not based on your personal bus travelling times!).

What size of population do you have within your area? How much are you going to need to take each week just to break even, and how much to be able to pay yourself the minimum wage? What is your projected turnover for the first year and how do you justify your assumptions on number of customers and average spend?

I'm betting you don't know that answers to any of those questions. You need a reality check. As for the free £20k, I'm not aware of any grants of that size available. If you want to PM me the details of it I can check it out for you, but start up grants tend to be a few thousand at best and usually involve you at least matching the amount.

I do have some information on grants bookmarked from when I was starting up. I'll see if I can find it.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

The other good thing about starting smaller with an internet business for a few years is that you can build up a customer base, and still do internet sales once you have your business, so you'll already have people coming back to you regularly (if you play your cards right and provide a good service!).


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i live in a 2 bedroom flat, i have no room to store any goods for an internet company, and i dont want to be sitting indoors all day, i want to be out and about doing stuff. 

i have heard what i need to. any thing said from now on putting me and my plans down will be ignored


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

what will you be doing with the mousery when you're working 12+ hours a pet shop?

at the end of the day you need to consider if your area needs a pet shop; if it's viable and profitable. Just because there isn't one doesn't mean that people will use it and you'll be able to make a living.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i will carry on with my mousery. as and when i get the chance to aquire more mice


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a mousery?... i've never heard of such...

i googled it...

Mousery Database

alrighty then...:whistling2:


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> 3 PET SHOPS- i can only think of 2 unless you count in the horse food suppliers
> 
> 3 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS- i can only think of 3 horse food suppliers within 4 mile
> 
> 12 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS IN 10 MILE- only if you include all of the above and go to hastings


Those figures I got from Yell.com the numbers of outlets increased as the mileage did, ie 3 petshops in Bexhill plus the suppliers etc. so on that basis there would appear to be 18 upto 10.5 miles of Bexhill.

Originally, you said there weren't any, but there are at least 2, as you don't know of a third, in the town itself.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

HABU said:


> a mousery?... i've never heard of such...
> 
> i googled it...
> 
> ...


See. You learn something new every day :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

vonnie said:


> See. You learn something new every day :lol2:


indeed!: victory:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> *i live in a 2 bedroom flat, i have no room to store any goods for an internet company, and i dont want to be sitting indoors all day, i want to be out and about doing stuff. *
> 
> i have heard what i need to. any thing said from now on putting me and my plans down will be ignored


Get a job working for someone else? :whistling2:


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Get a job working for someone else? :whistling2:


:lol2: i`m not sure these are the words she wants to hear :2thumb:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Graylord said:


> :lol2: i`m not sure these are the words she wants to hear :2thumb:


Well she said she doesn't want to be stuck inside all day! And by working for someone else, she wont have the huge headaches of owning her own business!


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## RaccoonsRule (Aug 24, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Well she said she doesn't want to be stuck inside all day! And by working for someone else, she wont have the huge headaches of owning her own business!



It is a mega headache!!! People are a headache lol...And in all honesty, im not that far away from her Selling Exotic Mammals, so those are probably best left alone! Without sounding like I feel threatened because I can assure you im not lol  And I have visited Rosanna's It was clean and tidy and at the time only had the dog a few tanks with Some amazing Snails in


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

RaccoonsRule said:


> It is a mega headache!!! People are a headache lol...*And in all honesty, im not that far away from her Selling Exotic Mammals, so those are probably best left alone! Without sounding like I feel threatened because I can assure you im not lol*  And I have visited Rosanna's It was clean and tidy and at the time only had the dog a few tanks with Some amazing Snails in


You aren't a pet shop are you?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You know what's funny? Checking your emails and realising this numpty sent you one.

Dont email again, numbnuts. My pm box is full for a reason ie. I dont want pms.


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

rosanna123 said:


> and how were the remarks about my dog spot on. if i want to breed my dog, then i can. if someone wants to breed there dog with mine and i say yes then wat is the problem. it has nothing to do with anyone else, no-one had any right to comment unless they were intrested in breeding with my dog


lots of people on here work with unwanted and rescue dogs due to irrisponsable back yard breeders like you so yes actually i think they do have a right to comment.
oh and the fact she then decided to bin your dogs off on classifieds not long after.



rosanna123 said:


> i have thought of all this and i will be diffrent. as i have said i will be seeing just what grants and loans etc. i can get, i need approx £23,500 to set up. as i have siad i have put alot of thought into this, worked every thing out to the last penny.


hmmm is it only me who would think that a lady who in her own words "sits around all day" be handed that amount of money for nothing when people work 40+ hours aweek and could never dream of this happening to them.wake up its not going to happen. they will exspect YOU to have some funds too.



rosanna123 said:


> 3 PET SHOPS- i can only think of 2 unless you count in the horse food suppliers
> 
> 3 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS- i can only think of 3 horse food suppliers within 4 mile
> 
> 12 PET FOOD SUPPLIERS IN 10 MILE- only if you include all of the above and go to hastings


doesnt matter really people can just got to supermarkets for most pet stuff now.

dont bother suplying horse feed or equipment it wont work,there are so many liveries and private yards near me when my local pet shop started selling it i thought ohh thats good but even they gave up on the horse bit.funny is the owner had 4 horses herself on a large yard and still coudlnt make it work.

horse wholesalers are so much cheaper and anyone can go.

your best option is doing stuff online.you get more time with your famliy,looking after your animals,you can start off small if it takes off great exspand sell more things etc. you wont loose much money.have you thought about doing a poll on the forum asking where people buy the majority of there pet stuff from ie shops,online.
i only use my petshop every other week and spend 4Quid mice and dog chews,my petshop doesnt sell livestock but like i said she stopped selling equestrian stuff and has now moved to a smaller premises.



LisaLQ said:


> You know what's funny? Checking your emails and realising this numpty sent you one.
> 
> Dont email again, numbnuts. My pm box is full for a reason ie. I dont want pms.


:lol2: oh the irony.


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have been thinking about this for a while now and im gonna do it. where i live the closest thing to a pet shop is a vets.
> 
> i have decided on the shop i want to rent (still need to find out how much the rent is) and i have set up a couple of trade accounts so far.
> 
> ...



pet shop licence is round 180.00 per year.

your rent per month even on a small shop prob 350- 1000 per month
+ your electric which will be at a business rate so even more.
+ all the shelving and elclosures.

you will need 6- 10k to get started with a good stock of feed/equipment animals pay for years rent enough money aside for electric. you will also need insurance public liability possibly insurance for the actual building, its alot of money as i thought about it my self. its best/easier to do it with atleast another person also.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have been in touch with every one today. the rent is about £200 a month, insurance is £400 a year, business rates are nothing until oct, the £600 a year after that, im still waiting on the rest


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I think they meant your elecricitly would be more expensive than a domestic property so that would be a big drain as you would, I imagine, have to have some sort of heating running 24/7 for the animals and lighting/heating in each enclosure if you were to stock exotics!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> You know what's funny? Checking your emails and realising this numpty sent you one.
> 
> Dont email again, numbnuts. My pm box is full for a reason ie. I dont want pms.


Sounds intersting Lisa...........


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> i have been in touch with every one today. the rent is about £200 a month, insurance is £400 a year, business rates are nothing until oct, the £600 a year after that, im still waiting on the rest


That doesn't sound right! It must be a very small shop if rent is £200 a month & business rates are £600 a year!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Sounds intersting Lisa...........


Not really:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Not really:lol2:


:lol2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

its a nice size actually, big enough to start out in


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

£200 a month is far too cheap. You need to ask yourself why it's that price. There is nothing available at double that here, and this is not an expensive area. 

Don't just take somewhere because it's cheap. You need to think about things like footfall, what shops are nearby that draw people to that street, and what's access like for parking. That's very important if people are buying something like large sacks of feed.

Also look at the lease. A standard commercial lease will give YOU responsibility for maintenance of almost everything. I think the roof is about the only thing I don't have to take care of. So if the building's in a state you could be looking at a lot of expense.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> its a nice size actually, *big enough to start out in*




Make sure you check the terms, again about this. There should be contract breaks every few years so that if you do decide to move on for whatever reason you can without paying any penalties. I have a 10 year lease but with a break every three. Not that I'm planning on going anywhere soon, but it's still good to have the option there.


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

On the news a few months ago I saw something about how it is cheaper to open a market stall as you have far less over heads and how more people shop at markets at the moment as you can get everything there. Maybe you could open a stall selling pet supplies, I mean you did say you do not want to be inside all day and a shop is well, inside. . . 
Maybe you could start by selling supplies and then move onto animals when you have a good name and a regular client base? I mean if you started selling animals from day one and then your business went under you would have loads of animals and no room for them atop of the supplies you don't have room for. 
Maybe you should get a job and start to save some money. I do not know about the people giving grants but if I were to give someone any of my money I and I could choose between someone with a job or someone without one I would go with the employed person more often then not.
-
Elina


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

vonnie said:


> *£200 a month is far too cheap. You need to ask yourself why it's that price. There is nothing available at double that here, and this is not an expensive area. *
> 
> Don't just take somewhere because it's cheap. You need to think about things like footfall, what shops are nearby that draw people to that street, and what's access like for parking. That's very important if people are buying something like large sacks of feed.
> 
> Also look at the lease. A standard commercial lease will give YOU responsibility for maintenance of almost everything. I think the roof is about the only thing I don't have to take care of. So if the building's in a state you could be looking at a lot of expense.


Agreed! We payed £500 a week rent when we had a pet shop!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Elina said:


> On the news a few months ago I saw something about how it is cheaper to open a market stall as you have far less over heads and how more people shop at markets at the moment as you can get everything there. *Maybe you could open a stall selling pet supplies*, I mean you did say you do not want to be inside all day and a shop is well, inside. . .
> Maybe you could start by selling supplies and then move onto animals when you have a good name and a regular client base? I mean if you started selling animals from day one and then your business went under you would have loads of animals and no room for them atop of the supplies you don't have room for.
> Maybe you should get a job and start to save some money. I do not know about the people giving grants but if I were to give someone any of my money I and I could choose between someone with a job or someone without one I would go with the employed person more often then not.
> -
> Elina


Like Chesney off Corrie! hehe


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## Wills (Sep 10, 2009)

yeah my place was around 500 a week !! lol

also the one thing you have to consider is foot fall of traffic, a small unit on a housing estate is no good you need to be somewhere that gets a massive ammount of traffic, spend some time just sitting in a car outside the shop you are looking to take, like entire days and see how many others use the local shops to it


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i live just up the road from the shop that i am looking at getting. it is in very good condition, and i wont have to do much to it other than a lickof paint, shelving ect. i have been living in this town for 16 years on and off, there is alot of animal people around here and everyone i have spoken to has said it is a really good idea and that it is just what the town need, even other shop owners have said so. one shop owner i spoke to said that the reant was really expencive but i think it is quite cheap


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Location is EVERYTHING!

I pay £800 a month for a pretty decent sized shop, but even though I'm less than a hundred metres from the main shopping street people still don't walk down here because the road doesn't lead anywhere.After 5 years I still get people 'discovering' us even though they've lived here all their life! 

If you're doing it right, once they visit they'll come back, but you need to be somewhere reasonably visible to attract them in that first time.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

my town has one street of shops, and a little side street with about 4 second hand shops, im gonna be right in the center of the main street, it is a very busy road out side as it is a main road from bexhill/hastings to brighton/hailsham ect. i have alot of window space for making my shop stand out to people driving past, so that i get noticed


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## Wills (Sep 10, 2009)

something doesnt add up, do you understand how rates work ? they are taken on a factor of the property value, and normallys its around 10% of the rental value

your rental value is 2400 a year !! even if there was an error and it was 200 a week its still cheap

if the protery is only renting for 2400 a year then its sale value is £26000-30000 which for a commercial property is very low

also you cant people words as anything when it comes to this, who is going to be rude enough to turn round to you and say no its a stupid idea.

if you want to do it then great, but let me ask you something

what is a sensible income for you to make in your area ?

as let me put some figures down for you

100k turnover per year equates to on average around £2000 a week 

now thats a fair ammount for a small shop to do for the first year

now margins, you are likely to make 30% at most and thats then got to loose 20% of it

so 30k less 20% {vat} so thats 24000 left

so is 2000 a month for rent rates, water electric and staff income enough ?

i would estimate that will leave you with around 1k for staff and your wage per month.

if it were me i would look to start a pet food delivery company in your town, and build up a customer base from that, then if that makes enough to pay a member of staff to deliver the food then look to move into a shop, honestly its a lot of peoples pipe dream to run a shop and it was mine, and i would not do it unless you like to work 15 hour days 363 days of the year.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

there will not be any staff only me, other than a couple of 15 and 16 yr old who have asked me if they can do work experiance.
i dont have a car and cant drive and so i cant deliver food.


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## Wills (Sep 10, 2009)

you cant be the only employee legally you have to have 2 people within the shop at all times for health and safety reasons

and will the shop be open everyday ?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have never heard of that one, i see one person in shops all the time.

i will be open from 9.30am-4.30 mon-sat
closed sundays


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## Wills (Sep 10, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have never heard of that one, i see one person in shops all the time.
> 
> i will be open from 9.30am-4.30 mon-sat
> closed sundays


is the rest of your high street closed on a sunday then as most petshops do 80-90% of there trade over the weekend.

its a common law that gets overlooked but fines are heavy


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i will asking the licensing people tomoro about that. yes most of the street is shut, it is only the newsagents, the kebab shop, co-op and lidl that are open then, oh and the cafe


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

Closing at 4:30 might not be the best bet as most people finish work at 5:30ish and then have to drive to you.
The pet shop I shop at closes at 7pm for that exact reason and I know pets at home closes late as well.
-
Elina


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Elina said:


> Closing at 4:30 might not be the best bet as most people finish work at 5:30ish and then have to drive to you.
> The pet shop I shop at closes at 7pm for that exact reason and I know pets at home closes late as well.
> -
> Elina


Pets at home near me closes at 8 which is great if i ever run out of something or cant get to Batleys for some reason ( which closes at stupid times youd think a cash and carry would be opening till at least 6 not half 4 most days and half 12 on a saturday ).

Been thinking about opeing my own pet shop since i was in college and took pet shop management but as of yet i havent the funds or experience really.


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## sjl02 (May 31, 2010)

Zoo-Man said:


> Agreed! We payed £500 a week rent when we had a pet shop!



Agreed again. I have a pet supplies "cabin" in the Market.hard to explain but not a stall I got doors and elericity ect! And I pay just over £200 a week for 7 trading days (that's just for the pitch I own the cabin)
And actually stock more then some of the smaller shops that are left.(cabins 20x10 ft) I'm also one of the last independent places left for 2 towns! That's cos a) my overheads are v.low and shops can't survive and b) between me & previous owner we've been here over 20 yrs and have a established busines with Regular customers!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

In regards to someone saying you would get fined for opening on a sunday, this is not true. You can check with your local council for sure, but even the limitations on hours only applies to large stores.



Wikipedia.com said:


> Following the defeat of a bill to enable widespread Sunday trading in April 1986, compromise legislation was introduced in July 1994 in England and Wales, coming into force on 28 August 1994, allowing shops to open, but restricting opening times of larger stores i.e. those over 280 m2 (3,014 sq ft) to a maximum of six hours, between 10am and 6pm only.
> 
> Some categories of large shop are exempt from the Sunday Trading Act 1994:
> 
> ...


If you are under 280 metre squared you can actually open as much as you like I believe, hence how all the little "Tesco Expresses" are legally open from 6am - 11pm on a sunday. All the big 24 hour shops however are limited to 6 working hours between the allotted times.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive never heard of a rule that says you must legally have more than one person working in a shop. There are lots of small shops near me that only have one person working in the shop at anyone time, including a petshop.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> Ive never heard of a rule that says you must legally have more than one person working in a shop. There are lots of small shops near me that only have one person working in the shop at anyone time, including a petshop.


Yes, I agree, I've never heard of this. I've run a small shop for 5 years in March and we almost never have more than one employee there at the time. I worked in reptile shops previous for 5 years where I was the sole employee and I've really never heard of a rule like that, I've had countless health and safety inspections and it's never been an issue.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> Ive never heard of a rule that says you must legally have more than one person working in a shop. There are lots of small shops near me that only have one person working in the shop at anyone time, including a petshop.


its a health and safety thing, your not allowed to be in a building on your own, however i think there must be some sort of 'size of building' limit, as a lot of shops round here are only staffed by one person and they dont seem to have a problem but my aunty (who has a material manufacturing factory) cant allow anyone to be in the building on there own as it would invalidate her insurance.


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

miss_ferret said:


> its a health and safety thing, your not allowed to be in a building on your own, however i think there must be some sort of 'size of building' limit, as a lot of shops round here are only staffed by one person and they dont seem to have a problem but my aunty (who has a material manufacturing factory) cant allow anyone to be in the building on there own as it would invalidate her insurance.


 
Load of guff 





This thread has been hilarious to read. :lol2::lol2:


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

Mrs Mental said:


> Load of guff


why? :hmm:


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## Wills (Sep 10, 2009)

Athravan said:


> Yes, I agree, I've never heard of this. I've run a small shop for 5 years in March and we almost never have more than one employee there at the time. I worked in reptile shops previous for 5 years where I was the sole employee and I've really never heard of a rule like that, I've had countless health and safety inspections and it's never been an issue.


its the kind of rule that you wil never hear about till its to late, if a member of your staff gets hurt in the shop and you dont have someone there to help them its your neck on the line

just like if you have a work experience person in the store you ask them to get that item from the top shelf using a ladder they use the ladder incorrectly and fall and hurt themselves badly, if you are the person in chrage at the time you are held accountable, so if you work for some chain consider this before you take a tiny pay increase to become a supervisor lol


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## quizicalkat (Jul 7, 2007)

wow - ummm interesting thread!

To the OP as reguards to having 15-16 year olds there - firstly employment law is quite strict on the hours they can work, secondly there may be insurance issues with you not actually 'employing' them.

Also, something I haven't seen factored into your budgeting is an accountant. A decent accountant is worth his/her weight in gold and can help you maximise the tax credits and grants you can get.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Wills said:


> its the kind of rule that you wil never hear about till its to late, if a member of your staff gets hurt in the shop and you dont have someone there to help them its your neck on the line
> 
> just like if you have a work experience person in the store you ask them to get that item from the top shelf using a ladder they use the ladder incorrectly and fall and hurt themselves badly, if you are the person in chrage at the time you are held accountable, so if you work for some chain consider this before you take a tiny pay increase to become a supervisor lol


Can you link to the legislation regarding this? Because like I say, I've had full health and safety inspections many times when the officer knows we have only one employee and it's never been mentioned - I just went through my insurance and there's no mention of needing multiple employees. If it's a rule it has to be written down somewhere, and I would be sue'ing the inspection team if I had any repurcussions because of a law that I was failing on that they'd told me I had fully passed on. I've googled it extensively and in none of the health and safety documents is any mention I can find of minimum employees on the premises.

I'm just a bit dubious as you were sure about the sunday hours thing which was totally incorrect - but if it's correct, then I'm very interested in laws (and obviously in keeping them.)

I can see it being true for manufacturing plants, heavy machinery or something like that, I can't see it being true for retail or offices.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

quizicalkat said:


> wow - ummm interesting thread!
> 
> To the OP as reguards to having 15-16 year olds there - firstly employment law is quite strict on the hours they can work, secondly there may be insurance issues with you not actually 'employing' them.
> 
> Also, something I haven't seen factored into your budgeting is an accountant. A decent accountant is worth his/her weight in gold and can help you maximise the tax credits and grants you can get.


Yes... if you are employing work experience people and not actual paid members of staff, then you must ensure that your insurance covers you for work experience in case one of them gets hurt. This may or may not increase the premiums, depends on your policy really but you must mention it. My insurance company requires me to call them up and provide them of the names, dates of birth and dates that work experience will be there so they are added to the policy for those dates, as they are not covered under the general clause of "employees".


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

quizicalkat said:


> wow - ummm interesting thread!
> 
> To the OP as reguards to having 15-16 year olds there - firstly employment law is quite strict on the hours they can work, secondly there may be insurance issues with you not actually 'employing' them.
> 
> Also, something I haven't seen factored into your budgeting is an accountant. A decent accountant is worth his/her weight in gold and can help you maximise the tax credits and grants you can get.


i have checked up all the laws on this for what age can work what hours, what the wage is for them ages and the fact that i dont have to pay them if it is just work experince. it does not effect any thing.

i do have a accountant. she is a freind of mine


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## CalE (Apr 24, 2010)

i will work for you when its done :2thumb:


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## swad1000 (Nov 9, 2010)

Ensure the safety of lone workers | Business Link

Nothing wrong with Lone working, providing you have the correct policies in place.


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

miss_ferret said:


> why? :hmm:


 
Im an ex commercial insurance brokers thats why.

The only time a correctly written insurance policy would require two members of staff to be around is when a certain type of machine/ery requires two operatives.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

Mrs Mental said:


> Im an ex commercial insurance brokers thats why.
> 
> The only time a correctly written insurance policy would require two members of staff to be around is when a certain type of machine/ery requires two operatives.


which all of my auntys do. its a textile factory - lots of huge machinery with sharp bits and multiple controls. if its not a general thing then i apologise for incorrect information but i only know what iv been told (being self employed but not actually owning a building its not something iv ever had to look into)


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

miss_ferret said:


> which all of my auntys do. its a textile factory - lots of huge machinery with sharp bits and multiple controls. if its not a general thing then i apologise for incorrect information but i only know what iv been told (being self employed but not actually owning a building its not something iv ever had to look into)


 
No its defiantely not a general thing so not soemthing that probably 90% of businesses would even need to think about.

The insurance policy itself would be written in such a way that if your Aunt had large machinery that should have two operatives and she allowed just one operative to work on it, she would void the insurance policy by breaking a Health & Safety rule.

The insurance policy itself wouldn't say that she had to have x amount of people doing whatever but it would say that she shoudl take every precaution to reduce risks/adhere to helath and safety legislation etc etc Because she would have broken a H & S regulation she would have voided the insurance policy through her own neglect/mismanagement

Hope that makes sense. 

Any questions on insurance (commerical business) Im more than happy to help with : victory:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Well from reading comments on this thread, & on your other thread that is now locked, I must say that your attitude towards people's opinions & experiences is poor, childish & plain rude. I certainly would not purchase anything from you knowing you were like that!


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

sorry but i come on here for help and advice and that is just not what i was getting yesterday. everytime i come on this site and make a thread all i get is crap thrown at me.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Most people are trying to help/advise. Some of us cannot see how you are going to get the money together to start the business off. Friends and family are going to want their money back (with interest) at some point.

There are so many other factors involved. You have two very young children (although quite why they are in a nursery all day when you are, at present, at home with them is strange) who need you. It is going to put an awful lot of pressure on you, the children, your disabled boyfriend - who with the best will in the world is possibly going to resent things a little if he never sees you. The hours you will work are going to be long, either in the shop or paperwork/ordering etc for such little return.

I personally think that with so many people turning away from buying animals from petshops you will struggle. You say you want to sell parrots, well we are talking about £000's. People do not have the sort of money available that they did have. They are also naturally going to be looking for the cheapest food/equipment available.

However, as I have said all along - good luck I admire you for wanting to start your own business, but I really think you would be better working for someone else both financially and emotionally.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Because you don't listen Rosanna.

I and plenty of others with years of experience of running shops have given you plenty of sound advice. But you don't listen because you know better.

And your comment about making £500 a week just shows that you have absolutely no idea what a struggle retailing is even without the added effects of the recession. But then if you'd done your research and put together a realistic business plan and budget you would know that.

Personally I still don't believe that you have found suitable premises for £200 a month, which leads me to believe that all of this is pure fantasy.

But from your attitude and language in the other post at least when you fail we'll all be able to say that it couldn't have happened to a nicer person.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

what is it with you lot. i do listen but i also get upset when i have people saying that i don't care about animals etc. yes i do have a shop that is only £200 a month (not sure how i can prove it to you but i have).

my kids are not at nursery all day every day at the moment but will be when my shop opens as neither me or my husband to be will be able to look after them. my OH is behind me all the way, he really want me to do this and he really wants to help me out in what ever way he can.


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## skimsa (Sep 28, 2007)




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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

:devil: well thank you for that. : victory: the more people who say im gonna fail the better. as it just makes me more determined to prove them all wrong:mf_dribble::lol2::2thumb::whip::notworthy::flrt::cheers::thumb:


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## skimsa (Sep 28, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> :devil: well thank you for that. : victory: the more people who say im gonna fail the better. as it just makes me more determined to prove them all wrong:mf_dribble::lol2::2thumb::whip::notworthy::flrt::cheers::thumb:


Makes it funnier for us too when it does happen

[insert a begillion smileys to try and not look like im pissed off - passive aggressive]


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

im not gonna fail, keep your eye out in may for a thread called my pet shop, ill show you lot. i can do what ever i want, all i gotta do is put my mind to it


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## skimsa (Sep 28, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> im not gonna fail, keep your eye out in may for a thread called my pet shop, ill show you lot. i can do what ever i want, all i gotta do is put my mind to it


Can you fly? I have a 9th story apartment you can borrow


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

what is your problem, what have i ever done to you. all i have ever wanted to to be a better person. do better with my life. give my children a better life and just live life to the full. but all i ever get on here is being put down. i was gonna breed my dog and that was wrong, i was thinking of starting a mousery but that was wrong, i want to open my own pet shop and once again that is wrong. 

please some tell me do i have a massive sign above me saying "make my life hell". you know i have done nothing to any of you other than stand my ground and stick up for myself. only about 3 people on here have met me. and yet it is everyone else that are having a pop as if they know me.


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> good luck with it. i thought about opening up an aquatics or pet shop, but decided i couldnt live not knowing where all the animals would end up :lol2: worrying they werent looked after properly etc, so decided against it.



your as bad as me i could never do it i would be crying every time i sold a pet


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> what is your problem, what have i ever done to you. all i have ever wanted to to be a better person. do better with my life. give my children a better life and just live life to the full. but all i ever get on here is being put down. i was gonna breed my dog and that was wrong, i was thinking of starting a mousery but that was wrong, i want to open my own pet shop and once again that is wrong.
> 
> please some tell me do i have a massive sign above me saying "make my life hell". you know i have done nothing to any of you other than stand my ground and stick up for myself. only about 3 people on here have met me. and yet it is everyone else that are having a pop as if they know me.



if you want to start a pet shop go and do it dont post stupid things on this forum you no your going to get stupid replys :lol2: you dont need to ask before you do things you have your own life go ahead

open 1 pet shop open 10 why not


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

missyrain said:


> if you want to start a pet shop go and do it dont post stupid things on this forum you no your going to get stupid replys :lol2: you dont need to ask before you do things you have your own life go ahead
> 
> open 1 pet shop open 10 why not


 
i made this thread asking for advice from other shop owners, with regards to laws, insurance ect. 

so no i did not ask "if it was ok" for me to open a pet shop, i was just asking advice. 

this forum was created for sharing expeirences and helping others now wasnt it, because at the moment it dont seem like it


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

you can find all that out at the bank and at the council 
go around your local shops and ask them what they think
you could end up worse off than you started 
i only trying to be nice


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok sorry it was just the way you said it. i have all the info i need now *MANY THANKS TO THE HELPFUL MEMBERS ON HERE. *


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

another thing you can do is breed all your own pets and sell them at the shop 
a local pet shop near me dose this and they sell top show rabbits aswell 
nice lops! make sure you keep them all well and healthy


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Yesterday before this thread was closed you asked a question along the lines of what do people expect you to do if you cant open the shop right now or something ( sorry cant remember the exact words ) 

However I think people would have expected you to get a job.
You are obviously capable of working full time as thats what you would do in a shop. 
So you could get a full time work and save up some money over the next few years so you at least have some kind of deposit and dont expect other people to finance you. 
I know you will now say you cant earn enough but a pet shop wont earn you more then £500 a month or so for the first many years so no difference in earnings with a proper job or the petshop.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

rosanna123 said:


> ok sorry it was just the way you said it. i have all the info i need now *MANY THANKS TO THE HELPFUL MEMBERS ON HERE. *


Just to highlight how ill prepared you are to start your own "petshop".......you said in the other thread that you didnt have any space to store things to open a mail order shop. yes? if you had the faintest idea then you would know that 90% of the mail order shop operate a drop shipping service. That means customers order nd pay for the item - then the shop orders it from the wholesaler and sends it to the customer. the customer pays frull RRP ( thats recomended retail price ) and the shop owner pays the whole saler the trade price. 

So all your big words and research really are irrelevant. You havent done any research or you would already know that a wholesaler would provide this service. The overheads on a internet shop are VERY low copmpared to a real life shop......that means bigger profits. Sorryto burst your bubble on that one.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

missyrain said:


> another thing you can do is breed all your own pets and sell them at the shop
> a local pet shop near me dose this and they sell top show rabbits aswell
> nice lops! make sure you keep them all well and healthy


*i would like to do this, and was sort of trying to plan away of doing it *



Shadowz said:


> Yesterday before this thread was closed you asked a question along the lines of what do people expect you to do if you cant open the shop right now or something ( sorry cant remember the exact words )
> 
> However I think people would have expected you to get a job.
> You are obviously capable of working full time as thats what you would do in a shop.
> ...


*sorry but there are NO jobs where i live. none at all. so i cant. im also not very good at aving someone tell me what to do all the time. i have always wanted a shop of my own and i am now going to have one. i have been through everything with my friend and my husband to be, i know everything that needs doing. i have the suppliers, the shop and the odd teen to help out. once i have the money there is know stopping me. everything is all planned. i have the support of my family and friends, im now engaged, and nothing can upset me (well i hope not).*


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

fantapants said:


> Just to highlight how ill prepared you are to start your own "petshop".......you said in the other thread that you didnt have any space to store things to open a mail order shop. yes? if you had the faintest idea then you would know that 90% of the mail order shop operate a drop shipping service. That means customers order nd pay for the item - then the shop orders it from the wholesaler and sends it to the customer. the customer pays frull RRP ( thats recomended retail price ) and the shop owner pays the whole saler the trade price.
> 
> So all your big words and research really are irrelevant. You havent done any research or you would already know that a wholesaler would provide this service. The overheads on a internet shop are VERY low copmpared to a real life shop......that means bigger profits. Sorryto burst your bubble on that one.


 
well know i havent researched a mial order shop as im not intrested in doing that. i am opening a pet shop.

*oh and i DO know what RRP is ok*


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

*This thread is getting out of hand. Please do not post unless you have something constructive to say, you don't have to agree with the OP but please try to be constructive & helpful and not take the thread off topic and try to flame an emotional response. I'll start giving out infractions soon.*


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Shadowz said:


> However I think people would have expected you to get a job.
> You are obviously capable of working full time as thats what you would do in a shop.
> So you could get a full time work and save up some money over the next few years so you at least have some kind of deposit and dont expect other people to finance you.
> I know you will now say you cant earn enough but a pet shop wont earn you more then *£500 a month* or so for the first many years so no difference in earnings with a proper job or the petshop.


My emphasis - she actually said £500 a week is what she needs as a basic wage to survive. 

This is not a contentious post, but I have some ideas for you. To get to those ideas you have to drop this long-term benefit view that you can't work. It's just not going to get you anywhere - it's something many people believe when they're downtrodden and stuck in a rutt (and I've been there!) but it's never going to get you what you say you want for your kids. Do you think your kids would want you to sit on the dole waiting for the job you will never find because you've set your standards too high and have nothing on your CV for the time you've been signing on? I'm genuinely not having a go. I have some ideas.

1. Voluntary work. I believe if you check with your Jobcentre contacts that you can do a certain amount of hours voluntary work. That helps get you some experience to go on a CV. A big gap of benefits on a CV is a red flag to any employer, even for your basic jobs.

2. Education. Over the last 5 years, I have taken myself out of where you are now and done an Access to Higher Education course at my local college, and am currently in the final year of my degree. I have had grants and loans to do the degree and the Access course was free because I was on a low income. See - no excuse to be doing nothing - you can do many of these courses part time and I have managed around 3 children and a disabled fiance.

3. Getting into ANY work. Any work is good work to you - don't be fooled into thinking you need a certain amount to survive, it's rubbish. You will get Child Tax Credits or Working Tax Credits up to a certain level and you can get housing benefit and council tax benefit depending on what level the wage is. You're in council housing and therefore the rent is far lower than private rented, there isn't any reason for you not to be working if you're not at home with your kids (they're in nursery you say). 

All of the above will help you on the road to getting a petshop. You could do a degree in Animal Management, you could get voluntary work in a rescue kennels or other situation, you could be working at Asda and saving for the downpayments. Your kids would look up to you for doing any of these rather than teaching them that they can't do it. 

Hope that helps - I'm not meaning to be a toe up the arse, but that's what I needed when I sat whining about being a full time mum on benefits with a partner who was laid off for going blind. My family need me to support them financially and to do that I had to quit moaning about it being impossible and be a good example. Kids will not thank either of us for sitting on our arses waiting for the impossible. :whistling2:


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

i have alot of qualifications, and alot on my cv. but there really are no jobs at all down here. the only job i have found recently is a saturday driving job. the problem is i cant drive


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

I know Kathy but was trying to show that she wont earn more in the petshop a month then she will in a normal job.
there is no way a petshop will bring in a £2000 profit a month ( ever more then likely lol ) 
She could earn more a month doing a normal job then she will in the petshop.
Im just worried how they will survive to be honest as the first couple of years there wont be any profit in the shop more then likely and I have no idea how they can feed the family with no income and no savings to fall back on.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I haven't added anything, nor read this whole thread, but you asked in another thread what was the minimum cage size for groups of certain animals. Sugar gliders were among these. Gliders should not be kept in a shop environment. They are completely noctournal, so your customers would only ever see a cage, anyways. They have very specific needs that need to be met during THEIR day time (so in the evening for us). They need out of cage time at night, a very in depth diet, etc. If you are truly interested in gliders, join the forum in my sig.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

my boyfriend will still get his benifits, i will still be getting child tax credits, child benifit and a friend has said i can also claim working tax credits (not sure about this one) and my housing benifit will be paid until the shop starts making a profit


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

Amalthea said:


> I haven't added anything, nor read this whole thread, but you asked in another thread what was the minimum cage size for groups of certain animals. Sugar gliders were among these. Gliders should not be kept in a shop environment. They are completely noctournal, so your customers would only ever see a cage, anyways. They have very specific needs that need to be met during THEIR day time (so in the evening for us). They need out of cage time at night, a very in depth diet, etc. If you are truly interested in gliders, join the forum in my sig.


 
quick queston: if they should not be in shops then why do places like new world exotics sell them, and why is nothing said about them selling them


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I would completely agree with you - I have had a dream of starting my own business (not animal related) and wouldn't personally dare in the current climate as I know if I'm on a steady low income I will get help, whereas if I'm in my own business I am unsure of where we'd stand for any help if things went badly. It's something I will think of more and more as the kids get older, but for now the most stable income is employment with someone. If she likes animals she could get a trainee vet nurse position, but they'd expect her to have done at least a year's voluntary work and stuck with other employment previously. It's time to get cracking and get the experience under her belt because otherwise she's just going to get nos and more downtrodden and show her kids that grownups don't bother trying. I would rather be in the worst menial labour (even in my state) than be back in that state of mind where "I can't" means "I can't be bothered trying" and signing on for life.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> i have alot of qualifications, and alot on my cv. but there really are no jobs at all down here. the only job i have found recently is a saturday driving job. the problem is i cant drive


How long have you been on benefits? Did you know that, for example, GCSEs have a 5 year shelf life and employers or unis that require them will expect you to do them again? You could be doing so much but you're just making excuses not to try. I know what it's like to lack that confidence. Think about the kids though - do you want them to learn to sit on their arse for handouts, or do you want to lead by example and show them that any work is better than that? That there is pride in doing anything to bring home any wage? I know you're not this person you're making out to be, you want better for them, so stop making unrealistic choices and make a realistic plan. If you really want to start a business you need to plan 5 years in advance, not 5 months and without any knowledge. I am trying to help you.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

but i dont sign on


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## missyrain (Feb 14, 2009)

how about doing a chip shop? it would be less stress 
when your childern are older they can help out and you can have a family run chippy!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Shadowz said:


> I know Kathy but was trying to show that she wont earn more in the petshop a month then she will in a normal job.
> there is no way a petshop will bring in a £2000 profit a month ( ever more then likely lol )
> She could earn more a month doing a normal job then she will in the petshop.
> Im just worried how they will survive to be honest as the first couple of years there wont be any profit in the shop more then likely and I have no idea how they can feed the family with no income and no savings to fall back on.


Family Tax Credits are available to self employed low income earners and can actually be quite a good boost to a family, if there are children this goes up, if the partner is working then that will be factored in so it goes on a household earning + higher limitations depending on children. Many self employed people can declare a loss but still manage to keep running the business because of the supplements the government currently offer working but low income / self employed people.

But I agree, in 99% of cases, people will earn more working for another company than they do setting up a small business - however most of us who run our own pet shops aren't in it for the money (wrong career choice if we were!) but are in it for the love of the animals, the independance, and for a variety of reasons. Whether or not someone can make those finances work is really up to them to work out - but self employed people are entitled to Family Tax Credit, and also Housing Benefit and I believe Council Tax benefit too - depending on the profit/wages they're taking from the business and their partners situation, but a lot of people who start up businesses actually declare a financial loss in the business name in the first 1-3 years, whilst paying themselves a wage, and assume that the business will pick up after the startup to cover it's initial losses.

Other business owners take no wages at all, but simply pay taxes on the profits made a month and that is their personal earning. Some set it up so they are their own employee and business profit/loss is kept as business earnings but they take a set hourly wage. There are a couple of ways to set it up depending on what works best for that person's situation. 

It's certainly something that any one thinking about starting a shop should do - sit down and assume you will make NO PROFIT at all and see if your family can still live adequately from their other resources by working out on a spreadsheet, but if the OP is confident that they can do this based on a zero profit spreadsheet at least for the first 6 months, then they can probably give it a go - then any profit is a bonus and allows a more comfortable lifestyle in the future.

My business plan was over 100 pages long including about 50 pages of spreadsheets and budgets, there is a lot of software available that will allow you to calculate exactly every single outgoing. You can't calculate every single income from the customers because you just don't know so this is the most important part to estimate realistically or it all goes tits up, but you can factor in personal savings, any personal income, partners income, and any government benefits available to self employed people. It's worth doing several sets - one for the highest threshold you think you'll meet and one for the lowest, see how each one affects the business, and then take an average mean.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm currently working my way out of that rut too - and something you will need is probably your drivers license, I dont know of any pet shop owners who dont need to get to the wholesalers, or pick up something from somewhere, and you're not going to be able to lug it on the bus, or afford a taxi.

Maybe get yourself some experience working in a pet shop again or get on a night class for small businesses, it'll all look good on your loan apps presumably. They're not going to loan money to someone who's heart is in the right place but has no realistic vision of how to make this succeed.

I'd look into finding out if there's any help getting you through your test - maybe a budgeting loan or something might pay for lessons? And get yourself back to college or into work. Sitting at home dreaming wont get your loans, you need to prove you have the balls and the know how.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> but i dont sign on


You don't physically sign on when you get IB for a disabled person but it's the same thing. I didn't want my kids to see that sitting on your backside gets a free paycheck. Yes it's hard to get out there after being in that position, and I'm not someone preaching from a highup vantage point without any experience of it. If you carry on with the "I can't" fatalism, your kids will be doing it soon with school work, then saying "I don't want a Saturday job - why should I when you don't work?" While your kids are in nursery you have a great opportunity to not let them grow up thinking positively about you and preparing them for a positive future. Making and throwing away unreachable plans is not going to sort it - if a petshop is your one life choice (and going on this thread I think that changes week to week like it did for me when I was wasting time like you) then get on a business course at your local college and start helping in another petshop on a Saturday, ANYTHING more realistic and setting a better example. Don't teach your kids they won't achieve their dreams by making pie in the sky choices and not being realistic about them, that makes you fail.

ETA: I would've thought with your experience of having children and a disabled partner, that something like nurse training (now a degree) would be ideal for you too. Don't know if you've ever thought of that, but it's probably one of the few careers where you could use your parenting and caring time as experience.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Myself and my family have been thinking about opening a pet shop for a long time now, but just don't know how to get started (especially before I move house!). After reading these threads made by the same person I have to say I'm pretty shocked she seems to think its going to be a walk in the park.

I have no business experience, but have a degree in Zoo biology. My mum has a degree in law, and she and her fiance have a passion for marine life. We wanted to open a shop that did not only supply high quality food, equipment and animals, but we also wanted to educate the public about the animals in situ that are suffering from the pet trade and how to help eg by not buying WC sea horses.

After reading these threads I have been thinking it might be easier to start off as supplying from my own premises via a website, which also has this information as well as where to get animals from sustainable sources without damaging our planet, eco systems and animals.

We wanted to take a much wider view on the world of animals as pets, and this was our way of being different. I would appreciate any help that anyone has to offer, we have been thinking about this for a while as my mum wanted to open a small animal park but I after talking to people I don't think that this is feasable.

Thanks for reading guys : victory:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> quick queston: if they should not be in shops then why do places like new world exotics sell them, and why is nothing said about them selling them



I've never been to NWE, so don't know how they are kept. But tell me how you are supposed to offer your gliders their basic needs (which should all be in the evening), if they are in a locked shop? They wouldn't ever see people, so would be anti-social (and a glider bite isn't a nice thing... take that from somebody who rescues these special little creatures). I have been keeping gliders for nearly 15 years.... And there are many people with a LOT of glidery experience in that forum I pointed out to you in my sig.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> I've never been to NWE, so don't know how they are kept. But tell me how you are supposed to offer your gliders their basic needs (which should all be in the evening), if they are in a locked shop? They wouldn't ever see people, so would be anti-social (and a glider bite isn't a nice thing... take that from somebody who rescues these special little creatures). I have been keeping gliders for nearly 15 years.... And there are many people with a LOT of glidery experience in that forum I pointed out to you in my sig.


New world exotics is owned by some good friends of mine, and their shop is cracking. As far as I know they take a lot of the mammals home at night with them :lol2:


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I was raised to believe (even after my crappy time up until 5 years ago) that you can achieve anything if you set your mind to it. I know that's not all-encompassingly true, but I do believe where there's a will there's a way, but only if people are realistic and plan for every eventuality. I also believe that if you can't bring yourself (and that's in the "one" manner than at anyone here) to plan properly, then you can't want it that much. Now if you plan and realise it's not achievable, and alter your plan to get the happiness and satisfaction you need, that's great. I just despair seeing people say "I can't" or "I won't unless I get £X a week", especially when they have children. My ex husband used to be like that. Living with Baz, who has a very strong work ethic and genuinely has been told by the benefits agency that he shouldn't bother trying for work as they don't want to have to find a disability friendly employer for him (and yet he still goes and tries and keeps trying) makes me angry when I see people give up for less, able, intelligent people using life as an excuse. Trying desperately trying every day for that job and being told your girlfriend is your only hope of an income. He's only blind and that's the barrier he's up against. Able people have all the choices, don't throw them away.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

bampoisongirl said:


> New world exotics is owned by some good friends of mine, and their shop is cracking. As far as I know they take a lot of the mammals home at night with them :lol2:


Then that'll be how it works *lol*

There really is no point in keeping gliders (or any other completely noctournal animal, really) in a pet shop.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Then that'll be how it works *lol*
> 
> There really is no point in keeping gliders (or any other completely noctournal animal, really) in a pet shop.


Be a boring shop if that was the case, glider aint half noisey at night with the random noises lol.


edit- have a mobile pet shop just buy a moterhome transfer it more into a store like on corrie lmao.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

I wish anyone well in their endeavours - especially those looking to better their life and create a new business, but by gods you've got to have done the research. Going self-employed, especially starting a business in the worst recession in memory is a big, big risk. Especially jumping straight in with a physical (and expensive) shop floor. 

A couple I know run a reptile and exotics shop and they have to work seven days a week to make a profit. They've been at it for a damned long time so they have the reputation to bring customers to them. A new shop has such a big struggle to make a name for themselves that, personally, I wouldn't consider it until the economy is on a stronger footing - unless I had considerable personal resources as a backup...


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Agree with the above, there is so many pet stores now and unless you are very well known buisness will be slow i assume till you gain more customers which could take ages, Think of something new hey like my mobile pet shop for instance lol.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Lover said:


> Be a boring shop if that was the case, glider aint half noisey at night with the random noises lol.


Exactly!!! There's no point in keeping gliders in shops. Your customers wouldn't ever see them.


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Exactly!!! There's no point in keeping gliders in shops. Your customers wouldn't ever see them.


Only if there butts were hanging out the pouch :lol2:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

seems to be a lot of people on this thread who consider not having a job and claiming benefits a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net in a crisis.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*lol*

I don't like the idea of any completely noctournal animal spending its life in a shop, anyways... Surely all the public poking and prodding them to see what they look like could cause some health problems and definitely psychological ones.

Chipmunks could be an interesting display animal, because they are awake during the day and very active.....


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> Chipmunks could be an interesting display animal, because they are awake during the day and very active.....


My old pet shop used to sell chipmunks back in the day when they were popular pets. One day a chipmunk escaped from its enclosure, the staff spent days/weeks trying to catch it, but it was too fast. It lived in the shop, running wild for *3 years*. They would see it occasionally. Then one day as Brian was walking up the stairs, the cheeky chipmunk was sitting on the banister. So Brian grabbed it and managed to contain it! 

This was long before I worked in the store. Funnily enough they don't sell chipmunks anymore. Too much trouble.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

sarahc said:


> seems to be a lot of people on this thread who consider not having a job and claiming benefits a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net in a crisis.


Not just here but across society in general. I've never been on benefits, ever, so it does wind me up a little. 

Some might says I've been lucky in having work, and good jobs at that, but the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get...


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Darklas said:


> My old pet shop used to sell chipmunks back in the day when they were popular pets. One day a chipmunk escaped from its enclosure, the staff spent days/weeks trying to catch it, but it was too fast. It lived in the shop, running wild for *3 years*. They would see it occasionally. Then one day as Brian was walking up the stairs, the cheeky chipmunk was sitting on the banister. So Brian grabbed it and managed to contain it!
> 
> This was long before I worked in the store. Funnily enough they don't sell chipmunks anymore. Too much trouble.



I think they'd need a good walk in aviary with a double door system. They are fast!! When I used to have a very old girl here living out her retirement, she escaped past me a couple times and that was stressful in a tiny room *lol*


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

sarahc said:


> seems to be a lot of people on this thread who consider not having a job and claiming benefits a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net in a crisis.


The reason i cant go back to work is my daughter has cerebral palsy affecting her left side so is stoping her from walking, and she also wont use her left hand like she should. I dont feel like i could leave her in someone else care everyday. BUt i dont claim tons of benifets we get working tax credits for Jack working.

-i'm scared of chipmunks since one bitten me just to hard to handle i think lol.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

sarahc said:


> seems to be a lot of people on this thread who consider not having a job and claiming benefits a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net in a crisis.


I don't think that's the case at all. People are simply being realistic in saying that you don't achieve your dream, whether it be a pet shop or anything else, without getting out there and working your arse off for it.

Established enterprises with proven business models and profits are being turned away by the banks. It is completely unrealistic to expect them in this, or any climate to lend money to someone with no assets or experience, however enthusiastic they are.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I just wanted to say I wish you the best in your venture of setting up a pt shop (even if it takes a bit longer to get started thatn you perhaps inititally thought), and thanks for starting the thread.

I guess I'm like MANY other animal lovers who at some point thinks 'I'd like to open a pet store'. I don'tthink I could turn a profit though as I think I'd be too picky choosing who my animals went to, most pet shops sell to kids whos parents let them have a new pet and they themselves put trust in a small child knowing and doing everything it's supposed to and I'm skeptical that most children do. 

I think one day I'd like to set up a small animal petting zoo type thing/animal show (that goes around schools) so that I could work with animals every day and help educate children to the care of animals. That's what my dream would be, and I found the post very helpful in the begining with the details of grants and insurance because I frankly was overwhelmed not knowing where to start and a forum is a good place to start, even though people keep saying that you need to do a LOT more research. That's true but I'm sure the OP didn't expect to find everything out by posting a thread on a forum, just wanted somewhere to begin. 

Another thing, I do think you'd be better off working in a pet shop for atleast a while first, and maybe doing a business course, just because you do have to 'apply' for any grants that are available, not everybody gets them and you do stand a better chance of getting one if they think that your business will succeed, and with experience is a good way to begin. I looked in to the Princes trust grant and you do need to have a good solid business plan and they wittle off the people who don't have a clue until they are left with a few who could pottentially make it, and they get the grant after lessons on writing plans and accountancy etc. Seems like a really good scheme. 

Another thing... someone (I can't remember who) said you can have college courses paid for etc.? who do you go to to find out about that? 'cause I would like to do an animal management course or something but I'd need finacial help and help with putting my child into nursery. Is that possible? 

As someone said it's hard to get out of the rut once your on benefits, I blinkin hate being on them, I can see why your frustrated and want to get out of the house. I wish I could have gone back to work once my maternity ran out but stupid as it is, I couldn't afford to put him into a nursery. I don't want to just have to wait until he's entitled to a free placement before I start looking for work or atleast doing something ie. get more of an education.

I found this post helpful even if it did go a bit squiffy in the middle with some people being down-right negative.


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Athravan said:


> Family Tax Credits are available to self employed low income earners and can actually be quite a good boost to a family, if there are children this goes up, if the partner is working then that will be factored in so it goes on a household earning + higher limitations depending on children. Many self employed people can declare a loss but still manage to keep running the business because of the supplements the government currently offer working but low income / self employed people.
> 
> But I agree, in 99% of cases, people will earn more working for another company than they do setting up a small business - however most of us who run our own pet shops aren't in it for the money (wrong career choice if we were!) but are in it for the love of the animals, the independance, and for a variety of reasons. Whether or not someone can make those finances work is really up to them to work out - but self employed people are entitled to Family Tax Credit, and also Housing Benefit and I believe Council Tax benefit too - depending on the profit/wages they're taking from the business and their partners situation, but a lot of people who start up businesses actually declare a financial loss in the business name in the first 1-3 years, whilst paying themselves a wage, and assume that the business will pick up after the startup to cover it's initial losses.
> 
> ...


Wise words - she did state earlier that she need the shop to make them £500 a week for them to survive.
Thats £2000 a month profit which honestly wont happen for a long long time if ever.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't quite GET why she'd need £500 a month to survive.... I don't know many families who come out with that much and they are very happy (and alive, I assure you).


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*Grants for starting a business | Startups*

*Repayable grant
*Under this type of scheme cash funding is offered for a project with the intention that the sums are paid out of future revenues. However, if the project fails, the grant is written off. 

I dont think that these grants would be easy to get though


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

thank you everyone. as i have stated before i am currently writing up a business plan, i have spoken to many, many diffrent banks, colleges, pet shops, ect. and i am doing really well. i am now on a business course that lasts for a couple of hours a week.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> I don't quite GET why she'd need £500 a month to survive.... I don't know many families who come out with that much and they are very happy (and alive, I assure you).


When you include her rent, council tax and other expenses as she won't have the 'run on' housing benefit for more than a few weeks I'm sure it would be in that region to have any decent living.

My OH is on incap and DLA, we no longer have housing benefit or council tax benefit as I now have my income but I bet we have more than £500 coming in a week and we are by no means well off.
We're not skint anymore but we don't live the high life either.

Having said that my horses cost me £135 a week, livery alone, so I suppose without them we may be able to afford a lot more!


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## skimsa (Sep 28, 2007)

Im a manager of an incredibly sucessful family business. We turnover into the six figures, this has been the main focus of my father life for the best part of 30 years.

You do not start a successful business from thin air. You also dont start one without taking advise and guideance.

The OP has been given excellent advise from Athravan (one of the most successful reptile shops in Wales and well known on this site) as well as many others who do know better than she does.

Yet she ingnores all this with a pathetic childish attitude of " i want it so im having it". 

This thread is nothing more than ego boost to be perfectly honest. In my own sick way i look forward to the day when we hear the excuses for why it didnt work but im sure it wont be her fault at all.

REMEMBER KIDS: Respect forum members most of them know better than you, and know what their talking about.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

saxon said:


> When you include her rent, council tax and other expenses as she won't have the 'run on' housing benefit for more than a few weeks I'm sure it would be in that region to have any decent living.
> 
> My OH is on incap and DLA, we no longer have housing benefit or council tax benefit as I now have my income but I bet we have more than £500 coming in a week and we are by no means well off.
> We're not skint anymore but we don't live the high life either.
> ...


Gary is in a very well paid job and after taxes, he doesn't come out with £500 a week..... And we pay a mortgage, which I would assume to be a lot more than the rent on a council flat.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

is your horse on full livery then


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Gary is in a very well paid job and after taxes, he doesn't come out with £500 a week..... And we pay a mortgage, which I would assume to be a lot more than the rent on a council flat.


Same here ( only my husband is not called Gary LOL ) 
We certainly dont have £500 a week
And we support 2 adults , 22 ferrets , 3 dogs and 3 parrots


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Shame... Everybody should have a Gary *lol*


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

"No, Gary!"

(Team America reference for you there...)


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> I don't quite GET why she'd need £500 a month to survive.... I don't know many families who come out with that much and they are very happy (and alive, I assure you).



Here you said £500 a month...but now we are talking £500 a week? Getting a bit confused tbh. 
£500 a month to live on is a bit basic once you take of rent and other expenses, especially if like the op you have kids. But £500 a week is a totally different story. I would loooove to earn £500 a week! My OH works full time as an engineer and gets about £300 a week. And thats with him working overtime.
My income doesn't count, only work part-time as I'm a student.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

personally i dont think this thread needs to continue as i now have the info i need adlock:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Darklas said:


> Here you said £500 a month...but now we are talking £500 a week? Getting a bit confused tbh.
> £500 a month to live on is a bit basic once you take of rent and other expenses, especially if like the op you have kids. But £500 a week is a totally different story. I would loooove to earn £500 a week! My OH works full time as an engineer and gets about £300 a week. And thats with him working overtime.
> My income doesn't count, only work part-time as I'm a student.


Sorry about that!! It was £500 a week :blush: The OP stated very early on that her and her family needed at least £500 a week to survive :whistling2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> is your horse on full livery then


 
All four are on full livery but my daughter pays £25 towards her pony so that leaves me with £135 to pay.
At £40 each week full livery that is very cheap as well but I get 'mates rates'.


Jen my daughter pays less for her morgage than I pay rent mind you but we do have a 2 bed house, I know not massive, it's not council either.
Depending on where you live the rents can be surprising.

We have just over £2000 a month but we do have extra expenses with John being disabled, 2 dogs, 9 cats, 6 ferrets, 56 rats, 42 hamsters and about 30 mice along with the four horses so quie a bit goes on them. OH! and two steppe lemmings and three multimammates.
We have all our rent and council tax to pay and John can't go anywhere without a car so we have a huge fuel bill as well.
He also has to have heating on all the time even in summer as he cannot maintain his own temperature.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> I don't quite GET why she'd need £500 a month to survive.... I don't know many families who come out with that much and they are very happy (and alive, I assure you).


She actually said £500 a WEEK.



sarahc said:


> seems to be a lot of people on this thread who consider not having a job and claiming benefits a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net in a crisis.


A lot? I am not sure you've read the threads, most people (myself included) are saying any job is better than sitting on your arse claiming. I only see one person claiming it as a lifestyle choice.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> She actually said £500 a WEEK.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot? I am not sure you've read the threads, most people (myself included) are saying any job is better than sitting on your arse claiming. I only see one person claiming it as a lifestyle choice.


 
sorry i am being really dumb here as i dont know who you are talking about


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, I meant a week :blush:

I have actually heard of some rentals costing more a month than our mortgage, but I assumed a council flat would be relatively cheap. I thought that was the idea of council housing? I don't know a lot about council housing, mind....


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

saxon said:


> When you include her rent, council tax and other expenses as she won't have the 'run on' housing benefit for more than a few weeks I'm sure it would be in that region to have any decent living.
> 
> My OH is on incap and DLA, we no longer have housing benefit or council tax benefit as I now have my income but I bet we have more than £500 coming in a week and we are by no means well off.
> We're not skint anymore but we don't live the high life either.
> ...


Christ, maybe I should give up uni if you get over £500 a week in a similar situation to us. My partner gets DLA and we get student loans which I have to pay back obviously. We also have to pay £400 a month rent and around £70 a month council tax. We do get some Child Tax Credit. There is no way what we get adds up to anywhere near £500 a week. I wish we could afford horses, must be nice! Cushy setup lol.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> Yeah, I meant a week :blush:
> 
> I have actually heard of some rentals costing more a month than our mortgage, but I assumed a council flat would be relatively cheap. I thought that was the idea of council housing? I don't know a lot about council housing, mind....


Depending on the area, a council flat of that size will range between £40 and £60 a week.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

That's still less than £250 a month..... We definitely pay more than that on our mortgage


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

Amalthea said:


> I have actually heard of some rentals costing more a month than our mortgage, but I assumed a council flat would be relatively cheap. I thought that was the idea of council housing? I don't know a lot about council housing, mind....


Some rentals are an awful lot. I'm looking for a place to get with the OH, and getting a mortgage is the cheaper option! Only problem is getting the deposit for it. :/

But council housing is cheap. Only £50 a week for my mates place.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I understand that renting can be dearer than a mortgage... I know our neighbor (who's house is identical to ours, since we are in a semi and they're the attached neighbors) pay about £100 more in rent than we do on our mortgage.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, to stop the arguments:
£500 a week =
£125 p/w rent
£100 p/w food
£20 p/w gas
£20 p/w electric
£15 p/w tv license
£30 p/w transport
£150 p/w extra nursery costs for the girls (govt will only pay so much)
we also have to pay water, sky, and will have to pay council tax


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think in this day and age mortgages aren't necessarily the cheaper option, indeed for many they are impossible to get. I know most people I know are paying similar to me for a smaller house. I would like to have a small flat for a lot cheaper though! Roll on summer.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

£125 a week for a council flat?!? The mind boggles..... And I promise you can survive without sky


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

KathyM said:


> Christ, maybe I should give up uni if you get over £500 a week in a similar situation to us. My partner gets DLA and we get student loans which I have to pay back obviously. We also have to pay £400 a month rent and around £70 a month council tax. We do get some Child Tax Credit. There is no way what we get adds up to anywhere near £500 a week. I wish we could afford horses, must be nice! Cushy setup lol.


 
do you purposly write to offend............im sure dawn woulsd prefer her husbands health and no money......i hardly think its a cushy setup!!!!!!!!!!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

rosanna123 said:


> ok, to stop the arguments:
> £500 a week =
> £125 p/w rent
> £100 p/w food
> ...


There is absolutely no way you're living in a £125 a week flat, you're having a larf lol. You have what, 2 kids? I feed a houshold of five with visitors for less than that a week. TV licence is £6 a week, you're doubling everything surely.


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

the sky is everything, tv, phone and internet. its the OH who mainly watches the tv


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

ditta said:


> do you purposly write to offend............im sure dawn woulsd prefer her husbands health and no money......i hardly think its a cushy setup!!!!!!!!!!


I certainly didn't mean it that way (cushy setup referred to what it would be for us to sit back with all that money coming in and do nowt), I was comparing it to our setup, and I have a disabled partner too, so would be similarly rewarded I'm sure - I wouldn't be flaunting that I could afford ponies on money given for my ill husband, but fair enough. :whistling2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You can still survive without those items  Since you said £500 p/w to survive........


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

KathyM said:


> She actually said £500 a WEEK.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot? I am not sure you've read the threads, most people (myself included) are saying any job is better than sitting on your arse claiming. I only see one person claiming it as a lifestyle choice.


I count you as a dosser.Plenty to say to this woman but you've not been working since I've been on here.Put that in your pipe and smoke it


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm a full time student you moron lol. I don't GET benefits, are you slow?


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

KathyM said:


> There is absolutely no way you're living in a £125 a week flat, you're having a larf lol. You have what, 2 kids? I feed a houshold of five with visitors for less than that a week. TV licence is £6 a week, you're doubling everything surely.


 
no, due to some problems i have missed a load of payments and so the license has gone up. yes my flat is £125 a week. that is cheap compared to private ones round here. if we were to get a 2 bed house with council we would be looking at £7-800 a month.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

yeah like I said,bit out of the age group for the usual student.Straight from claiming to being a student...


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## rosanna123 (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, im not replying to this thread any more as i can see it starting to get out of hand just like my other thread yesterday. if you have anything to tell me please feel free to PM me


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

sarahc said:


> yeah like I said,bit out of the age group for the usual student.Straight from claiming to being a student...


LOL is this your best shot? Seriously? Shows you might take a leaf out of my book and get yourself an edumacation darling.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

rosanna123 said:


> is your horse on full livery then





KathyM said:


> Depending on the area, a council flat of that size will range between £40 and £60 a week.


*Can be more as has been said.*



ditta said:


> do you purposly write to offend............im sure dawn woulsd prefer her husbands health and no money......i hardly think its a cushy setup!!!!!!!!!!


*Thanks Ditta and the money for the horses is 'my' money as I'm not on benefits as someone else seems to be implying.*



KathyM said:


> There is absolutely no way you're living in a £125 a week flat, you're having a larf lol. You have what, 2 kids? I feed a houshold of five with visitors for less than that a week. TV licence is £6 a week, you're doubling everything surely.


*How the hoofing heck would you know? I know of two bedroom flats in certain areas a lot more than that and they're council. Your friends are taking you for a ride then tell them to feed themselves.*



KathyM said:


> I certainly didn't mean it that way (cushy setup referred to what it would be for us to sit back with all that money coming in and do nowt), I was comparing it to our setup, and I have a disabled partner too, so would be similarly rewarded I'm sure - I wouldn't be flaunting that I could afford ponies on money given for my ill husband, but fair enough. :whistling2:


*I'm not on benefit did you not read 'my income'. Not everyone with a disabled OH decides to claim carers and 'sit on their arse half the day' you know! So I am not 'flaunting' that I use my OH's money to keep my ponies. For your information, not that you need to know, two fo those ponies have been with me longer than the OH.......:bash:*
*My OH has his own private carer that he pays for as I am not someone who can do those things and decided against claiming carers and maybe resenting John for haivng to do these things for him!*
*I also have my own health issues but still don not 'sit on my arse' either for the whole day nor half the day I make sure I have the money to be able to affrod my animals none of the animals care is taken form my OH's money other than his own little min pin dog...which incidently I can't stand!*
*By the way I run a 2010 car as well, my money, it's not a mobility car either before you jump to yet another conclusion.*


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## rmb87 (Aug 10, 2009)

Ahhhh rfuk.....and fountain of endless knowledge and friendly advice. What a forum!:bash:


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

saxon said:


> My OH is on incap and DLA!


Oh yes, I was jumping to conclusions saying your household is on benefits. Incapacity is means tested. Of course I take it all back if you live seperately and would gladly apologise.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I am of the opinion that you are a dosser.Studying for an a level in how long you can put off getting a job?


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Lol, whats so bad with going on DLA? there entitled to it for having what is wrong with them. Ive not claimed any money for my daughter but i may just have to because i cant work because im constantly caring for her.
Why is it bad to caim carers allowence if you cant possibly work because they depend on you. As for getting someone else to care for them doesnt this cost more, or does the carers allowence cover it, in my experiance carers are asking for more money than you get on carers allowence is this right?


As for rent thats pretty cheap for a flat, here there expensive and they are crap, they doing flats the same price as 3 bed houses lol.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I just realised that a certain member thinks I do 'nowt' by god she really needs to get her arse up here and 'be me for a day'.

My day starts at 7am when I get up to take my grandkids to school, yes I have grandids so not a little girl of only 20+, then I come over and do some little things for John. I get him out of bed and the things I feel I can do without feeling resentment, I take him whereever he wants to go and anything else he requires. My days are never the same!
I tend to the animals which usually takes at least 2-3 hours of what can be quite arduous work, then it's back to pic up the kids and take them home for tea, their Mum comes in from work and I leave at around 4.30pm.
Not the end of my day by a long chalk. I then go elsewhere and make 'my money' that pays for everything I have. I'm there from 5.30pm until 1am when I get to go home for a quick bath and bed until it all starts again at 7am.
I even have the kids on weekends when their mother is at work as 'guess what' she has a morgage to pay, four kids and no benefits not even tax credits!

Inbetween all this, especially on weekends, I do some small private rescue, I can be seen up and down the motorway helping with anything from a dog to a mouse.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

sarahc said:


> I am of the opinion that you are a dosser.Studying for an a level in how long you can put off getting a job?


 
Actually, a Batchelors of Science degree in Psychology and Criminology so I can study people like you. :lol2:


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Okay.. this thread despite my previous warning seems to have trailed into some sort of argument / personal disagreement about claiming for benefits and being unemployed and the OP has said she's not posting in it anymore so I think we'll call it there.


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