# Ventilation of Springs/woodlice.Bit confused



## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Got my Trop Springtail and Trop woodlice cultures at the weekend. Both came with instructions suggesting they should be left in the original containers for a couple of weeks (presumably so the small number of individuals are forced to meet each other?), and only then then moved to bigger quarters. 

Thing was the containers had no ventilation at all. Being a smart know it all, I at once grabbed a pin and made some vent holes..

Only later did I find this nice live-food guide here : http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibian-articles/580733-feeding-dart-frogs.html

where berksmike suggests 



> You need an unventilated container


but I've also read How to culture Isopods / Woodlice and Springtails - Dendroboard



> Regardless of your container choice, don’t forget the air holes! in.


Would appreciate any tips/ hints/ideas gained from personal experience.

Chris


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats an omission on my part in that guide - for springtails I use unventilated containers and for woodlice ventilated ones.

Sorry for the confusion!


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

berksmike said:


> Thats an omission on my part in that guide - for springtails I use unventilated containers and for woodlice ventilated ones.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion!


Cheers!  Thanks for the guide too  Printed it off which is a rare event in this house 

Why have no ventilation with the Springs though?

Chris


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Sandsifter said:


> Got my Trop Springtail and Trop woodlice cultures at the weekend. Both came with instructions suggesting they should be left in the original containers for a couple of weeks (presumably so the small number of individuals are forced to meet each other?), and only then then moved to bigger quarters.
> 
> Thing was the containers had no ventilation at all. Being a smart know it all, I at once grabbed a pin and made some vent holes..
> 
> ...


 hey mate i ventilate,moreso for woods,a bad experiance with a banging DW culture and feeding yeast which i guess started to ferment producing co2 and nailing all inhabitants lead me to this,i cut a say inch hole and cover with cheep blue white cloth ya know the stuff form a big store with a T... springs less so small holes as you've done.
The wood we do in 3l tupperware edible subs,but i'd keep them in smaller ones at first for your exact reason make sure they can find each other,now we have a real good stock i am able to set up a 3l and let it go,woods i check a couple of times a week springs almost daily.woods now a problem for big numbers to just increase,springs the minute they get plentiful i split or feed to froggies,keep splitting those springs mate,be onit woods i have cultures here that are silly rammed no probs months old,keep the woods real warm not too wet,pop a bit of cardboard on top it gives an idea of humidity in there. and they'll munch it 
grub we mix tetramin and ready break for woods...not too much fish flake read about isotocopherols blocking uptake of Ca and vit A,and later veg peelings etc as they are nearing feeding to frogs.
Spring we sprinkle small quantities of readbreak.Woods are a doddle easy to manage i repeat be on those springs
there ya go kiddo ventilation and a bit more:2thumb: oh Doug's method for giant orange works too,well it does here
regards
Stu


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> hey mate i ventilate,moreso for woods,a bad experiance with a banging DW culture and feeding yeast which i guess started to ferment producing co2 and nailing all inhabitants lead me to this,i cut a say inch hole and cover with cheep blue white cloth ya know the stuff form a big store with a T... springs less so small holes as you've done.
> The wood we do in 3l tupperware edible subs,but i'd keep them in smaller ones at first for your exact reason make sure they can find each other,now we have a real good stock i am able to set up a 3l and let it go,woods i check a couple of times a week springs almost daily.woods now a problem for big numbers to just increase,springs the minute they get plentiful i split or feed to froggies,keep splitting those springs mate,be onit woods i have cultures here that are silly rammed no probs months old,keep the woods real warm not too wet,pop a bit of cardboard on top it gives an idea of humidity in there. and they'll munch it
> grub we mix tetramin and ready break for woods...not too much fish flake read about isotocopherols blocking uptake of Ca and vit A,and later veg peelings etc as they are nearing feeding to frogs.
> Spring we sprinkle small quantities of readbreak.Woods are a doddle easy to manage i repeat be on those springs
> ...


Lol. slow down Stu. whats a "banging DW culture"? Its a woodlice culture you were feeding yeast too?

Ok, ventilate the woods, less so the springs, get ready for a spring population explosion?

Ta.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Sandsifter said:


> Lol. slow down Stu. whats a "banging DW culture"? Its a woodlice culture you were feeding yeast too?
> 
> Ok, ventilate the woods, less so the springs, get ready for a spring population explosion?
> 
> Ta.


Sorry mate,damn late trying to get alot of info over with few words:gasp::2thumb: DW= dwarf white (woodlouce)...banging = absolutly loaded with them,and yes we tried out bakers yeast and the result was total die off suffocation was almost certain as all were on the top,summerise came up trying to find air, no ventilation !!.
Yeah exactly that with the springs,as the explosion starts split em,or move some,the theory is they excrete some form of inhibitor,this can implicate a crash if the numbers get too high. We get better results with the springs slightly ventilated but folsuma we struggle with, siera work well for us they seem more predictable. I talked to marc at dartfrog recently about this,he seems to experiance the same as me sudden unpredictable die off for no real explainable reason,i have tried just about every method with them one can think of always the same unpredictable results. Ha funny Marc said he had some cultures running for 2 yrs amongst his others and they all crashed just before he went away...i think they might just do this to mess with us,kamakazi springs:lol2: possibly the highest intelligence on our planet :bash: watch them on water surface mate the synchronisation is mad....well ya wouldn't just want the answers with out some fun would ya:whistling2:
Stu


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

My understanding is that folks keep springs in air tight containers to stop mites getting in, as once mites get in the culture is pretty much done for.

That said, my BEST culture is in my substrate bucket. A 25 litre brewers bucket with a lid vented with a piece of hydroflieece over the hole. The media, the exact same ABG based mix I use in dart vivs. Food, I just use fish flakes. Seriously, it's teeming permanently with both dwarf woodlice and tropical springs! Whenever I made a new viv, I just kept topping up the mixture with more xaxim fibers, sphagnum peat etc. I put leaves and pieces of xaxim panel on the surface, the springs climb on these, I can then just tap them into a viv. Woodlice I just use a plastic teaspon and my hands to locate and remove them for food use. I also have about 4 more normally sized springtail cultures, but they don't produce anywhere near as well.

Ade


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> Sorry mate,damn late trying to get alot of info over with few words:gasp::2thumb: DW= dwarf white (woodlouce)...banging = absolutly loaded with them,and yes we tried out bakers yeast and the result was total die off suffocation was almost certain as all were on the top,summerise came up trying to find air, no ventilation !!.
> Yeah exactly that with the springs,as the explosion starts split em,or move some,the theory is they excrete some form of inhibitor,this can implicate a crash if the numbers get too high. We get better results with the springs slightly ventilated but folsuma we struggle with, siera work well for us they seem more predictable. I talked to marc at dartfrog recently about this,he seems to experiance the same as me sudden unpredictable die off for no real explainable reason,i have tried just about every method with them one can think of always the same unpredictable results. Ha funny Marc said he had some cultures running for 2 yrs amongst his others and they all crashed just before he went away...i think they might just do this to mess with us,kamakazi springs:lol2: possibly the highest intelligence on our planet :bash: watch them on water surface mate the synchronisation is mad....well ya wouldn't just want the answers with out some fun would ya:whistling2:
> Stu


Being happy is alright if you like that kind of thing   Watched "Merlin" this week so well up on the rational/witchcraft debate btw  

Seems a big ask to expect any monoculture to last years I guess. Read Martin Moe's book on rearing Orchid Dotty-back's ( A marine fish and right out there on the edge when he was doing it) a few years ago and he had "unexplained" crashes in his feed and fish cultures that he reckoned were down to toxins from bacteria. 

Too much to think about so please send your Dance troupe North 

Chris


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> My understanding is that folks keep springs in air tight containers to stop mites getting in, as once mites get in the culture is pretty much done for.
> 
> That said, my BEST culture is in my substrate bucket. A 25 litre brewers bucket with a lid vented with a piece of hydroflieece over the hole. The media, the exact same ABG based mix I use in dart vivs. Food, I just use fish flakes. Seriously, it's teeming permanently with both dwarf woodlice and tropical springs! Whenever I made a new viv, I just kept topping up the mixture with more xaxim fibers, sphagnum peat etc. I put leaves and pieces of xaxim panel on the surface, the springs climb on these, I can then just tap them into a viv. Woodlice I just use a plastic teaspon and my hands to locate and remove them for food use. I also have about 4 more normally sized springtail cultures, but they don't produce anywhere near as well.
> 
> Ade


Cheers Ade.

So the lack of ventilation has nothing to do with the Springs themselves but is all about keeping out the mites. Must be other ways of dealing with mites?

Splitting the culture(come the time) between lots of small cultures and maybe a big bin of a culture on the side looking sensible then?

Chris


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I'd say so yeah.

As to mites, not had them yet. But then I keep all of my fruit fly cultures on mite paper, so don't have the mite problems some folks have. I have had problems with microworms destroying cultures with excessive CO2 production though, you don't get them in ventilated cultures as they don't get overly wet like a sealed one can, and any CO2 can easily escape.

Like I said, I get more success with vented springtail cultures than with sealed ones. BUT, you are supposed to regularly take the lid off the sealed culture, which does ventilated the CO2 that builds up. If you have a lot of cultures though you tend to miss a couple, and splat they go bump on you. Hence I have some with ventilation, some without.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Can totally see the merits of what Ade's doing Chris although i don't have any big cultures persay at presant i have knockeded up some large tubs for the young frogs untill a can get my proper rearing system up and running,the springs in them are going nuts. At presant my demand for springs is huge due to all the little ones that are appearing so also have some unvented cultures as i'm trying all options to build numbers as radpidely as possible. Our woodlice are just great we have huge numbers,and the method is working so well i have no reason to look for others,the bits of rotton plum wood i pop in are our means of harvest plus the card,on the wood lice that is,and i use bits of oak bark for the same reason with the springtails
Stu


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## Sandsifter (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks guys, :2thumb:. Just patented and trademarked a combination of your methods as "STAMina Energy Culture"  

Seriously though, Ta 

Chris


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