# Squirrels?



## geckocider (Nov 22, 2010)

So after the last year looking into the different squirrels I have decided I would like the challange of one... My cage is 4x3x6 foot and my spare room is 12x8 foot so.would be allowed out the cage.... ive met a pet richardsons ground squirrel and they didnt really appeal to me, and the same lady had 13 lined squirrels but altho they are absolutly beautiful they need vast ground space rather than height. 

The squirrels im interested in are:

Grey
Red
White bellied
prevosts (i cant find good info on these)

I go to portsmouth quite alot to see Kayleigh-kaz and I do keep a few exotics.. 
I dont want a pet I can cuddle, I have only read statements from.people keeping wild grey squirrels... I know they bite and I know their claws are incredabily sharp and their jumping range is huge!! 
Want to make the right choice in what to have, ive looked at palm civits, skunks and racoons but they need quite alot of exercise out of the house and I cant offer that at the moment tho.i would love to meet a skunk.... Ive met a raccoon called Rocky he sparked my love for exotics and thats when I got a passion for them... 
My exotic list is small but ive been looking into the bigger animals for a while... 
My partner likes monitor lizards and crocs - which once we move he can have what he likes


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## Rhianna.J (Nov 5, 2011)

geckocider said:


> So after the last year looking into the different squirrels I have decided I would like the challange of one... My cage is 4x3x6 foot and my spare room is 12x8 foot so.would be allowed out the cage.... ive met a pet richardsons ground squirrel and they didnt really appeal to me, and the same lady had 13 lined squirrels but altho they are absolutly beautiful they need vast ground space rather than height.
> 
> The squirrels im interested in are:
> 
> ...


i think you have to keep squirrels in at least a pair.....


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## geckocider (Nov 22, 2010)

Rhianna.J said:


> i think you have to keep squirrels in at least a pair.....


Ill get a bigger cage as mines only big enough for the one.. 
I dont know anyone that keeps them I was hoping they were commonly kept.. 

I know people that keep ground squirrels singually..


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I think that most grey squirrels kept are unreleasable wild ones, and I've heard that they get much more aggressive than other squirrel species. 
The easiest to get hold of will be the White bellied.
I think Kodakira keeps Prevost squirrels.
I'm suprised more people haven't posted saying they keep squirrels to be honest, you might have more luck on • View forum - Ground Squirrels, Flying Squirrels & Prairie Dogs


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## geckocider (Nov 22, 2010)

em_40 said:


> I think that most grey squirrels kept are unreleasable wild ones, and I've heard that they get much more aggressive than other squirrel species.
> The easiest to get hold of will be the White bellied.
> I think Kodakira keeps Prevost squirrels.
> I'm suprised more people haven't posted saying they keep squirrels to be honest, you might have more luck on • View forum - Ground Squirrels, Flying Squirrels & Prairie Dogs


We origianally wanted flying squirrels but they need posts to jumo to and from so my house woukdnt be so suitable  
Ive seen grey squirrels on my pet shop list, but no info written on age or anything.. I would love a native red squirrel I grew up on the isle of wight and they have reds there and I love them <3


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

People talk about tree squirrels on that forum too, there's a couple of posts about Pevrost, red and white bellied. Not much about the care but you could then PM the people who have owned/cared for them.


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## geckocider (Nov 22, 2010)

em_40 said:


> People talk about tree squirrels on that forum too, there's a couple of posts about Pevrost, red and white bellied. Not much about the care but you could then PM the people who have owned/cared for them.


Kayleigh-kaz is looking at squirrels  its just a idea atm want to make a desision on what I can look after etc. then I need to check with our animal sitter if hed look after one as itll b more work than our other fluffies


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## ferretfreak (Jun 20, 2011)

don't know if you have got a squirrel yet or not, either way you should take a look at this forum

The Squirrel Board - Powered by vBulletin


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Avoid Grey Squirrels - legal complications and can be aggressive.

Avoid Reds - legal complications, very shy and willing to drop dead at the slightest excuse!

Good options include :

Tamiops swinhoei - S E Asian tree squirrel - looks similiar to a Chipmunk. easy to keep in the spece available.
Hudson's - look like a small red, easy to keep and wiling to breed.
Pere Davids used to be available - but have not seen any recently.
Japanes White-Belied (Sciurus lis) - look a bit like Reds but totally different in character! Being bred in a variety of colour forms - all attractive.

Other species are available - but avoid Ground Squirrel sp such as Richardson's, Prairie Dogs, Dremomys pernyi.

Prevost are large squirrels - need more space and there is the problem that UK breeders seem to be unable to grasp the fact that there are sub-species that should be bred true! If you must go down the Prevost road - buy a specific sub-species and do not interbreed with other sub-species!

Of course there is always the option of the ultimate adaptable Squirrel - Chipmunk!

Have kept all the above - except Prevosts - plus other species so the comments are from a practical viewpoint!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You need to have a licence from Natural England to keep a grey squirrel, so they could be hard to buy.

You could approach local vets, who are instructed to euthanase any orphaned or injured greys brought to their surgery, but many do not like to do this as it's against their ethics to euthanase a healthy squirrel and tell them you would be willing to take on an orphan and handrear it.

Alternatively google Meon Valley Squirrel Rescue and volunteer to take any local squirrels that need a home. They rescue greys and are often looking for homes for 'disabled' or humanised greys which can't be released.

Reds are hard to come by but there are people breeding them in captivity, so you might be able to source one.

I've met a few greys that have been rescued as orphans and they haven't been vicious and the same with reds.

I've seen white bellied squirrels for sale on here and reds.


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Feorag

Having known several people injured by hand-reared Grey Squirrels, one of whom had an artery severed in a 'lightning' attack by a hand-reared pet Grey Squirrel - I have to repeat : Grey Squirrels do not make the best choice for a novice squirrel keeper.

At the risk of repeating myself - Red Squirrels are also a very poor choice. There may be a few people keeping them, but they are far too nervous for a novice squirrel keeper to even think about keeping them!

How many species of Squirrel have you kept, Feorag?

Having kept 12 species of Squirrel - my comments are based on practical hands-on experience!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And I've know people have the same problem with a domestic cat.

I don't "keep" squirrels, but I've had a bit to do with both red and grey and know of people who've kept greys without being attacked.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

duffey said:


> of colour forms - all attractive.
> 
> Other species are available - but avoid Ground Squirrel sp such as Richardson's, Prairie Dogs, Dremomys pernyi.


Why do you say this?


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Colinm

The only reason for advising against any species of Ground Squirrel was the spatial requirements in Geckocider's initial post. Ground Squirrels (Prairiedogs, Richardson's Ground Squirrels, Suslik) & Rock Squirrels (Dremomys pernyi) require ground area rather than height and an enclosure described by Geckocider is not ideal.


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## CHUNK (Dec 8, 2006)

Hello Geckocider, 

You mention your intended housing for a Squirrel species being 4 x 3 x 6 ft. But you didn't mention in what order, is it 6ft long or 6ft high?

I'm hoping the housing is 6ft high, rather than 6ft long?

Also I hope your first Squirrel species would be Chipmunks?

Chipmunks are the the most commonly available Squirrel species, and they can be housed in aviaries smaller than needed for the other species you have mentioned.

Chunk.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> Feorag
> 
> *Having known several people injured by hand-reared Grey Squirrels, one of whom had an artery severed in a 'lightning' attack by a hand-reared pet Grey Squirrel* - I have to repeat : Grey Squirrels do not make the best choice for a novice squirrel keeper.
> 
> ...


I think this was a freak accident, Im sure the squirrel didnt intend to go in for the kill. Accidents like this can happen with any species its up to the keepers to be aware of the damage sharp teeth and claws can do



feorag said:


> *And I've know people have the same problem with a domestic cat.*
> 
> I don't "keep" squirrels, but I've had a bit to do with both red and grey and know of people who've kept greys without being attacked.


At our sanctuary weve had many an aggressive domestic cat. Gizmo was a huge black moggy that shredded many a volunteers wellies and even managed to put somebody in hospital with blood poisoning after he managed to puncture an artery. Im glad to say that after 3 years at the sanctuary he finally chose his owner himself and now lives in the life of luxury with only the odd outburst of aggressiveness. Some domestic mogs can be evil especially when they are upset!



CHUNK said:


> Hello Geckocider,
> 
> You mention your intended housing for a Squirrel species being 4 x 3 x 6 ft. But you didn't mention in what order, is it 6ft long or 6ft high?
> 
> ...


I had chipmunks in a cage the size that was mentioned and they never looked happy at all, in the end I rehomed them to someone with a large aviary with space to run, climb and dig and they love their new life.


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Shell195

Grey Squirrels WILL ATTACK! If a hand-reared Grey takes a dislike to an individual it will attack! I know of 2 very, very experienced animal keepers that have been attacked - not once, but numerous times - and a Grey has a severe bite!

I know squirrel keepers in Holland who keep Greys - but they have experience with other Squirrel species.

Grey Squirrels are not a species for a novice.

When you refer to Domestic cats - do you mean Domestic or Feral (Domestic cats gone wild)?
There is a difference in behaviour! From experience of keeping & breeding cats ( Pedigrees - with fur, not furless aberations!) and working with Cats Protection as a Trapper, and working with a specialist feral cat charity, there is a world of difference between Domestic and Feral! I would sooner trust a Puma or Lynx than some of the Ferals - the Puma & Lynx I've handled were far better tempered and trustworthy than some ferals!


I know many people who have kept and bred Chipmunks - using a variety of sized enclosures - including the size proposed by Geckocider - but the only 'unhappy' Chipmunks seem to be ill or lacking something in their enviroment! They are an extremely adaptable species - and I have to agree with Chunk - an ideal first squirrel species!


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## Draco (Nov 23, 2005)

I had an orphon grey living here in my living room for 6 months, before the wildlife centre found him a perminant home, and not once did he even look like he was gonna attact anyone.

Nor have any of the other hand rears I been around, its the wild ones that that come in injured that are the ones to be weary of.

Then again I wouldn't keep on as a pet, unless I had a massive out door avery and then it would have to be a one that was not able to be released. ( the wildlife place I work for has a licence for rehab and releace)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to release because we're in the largest area with red squirrels left in England.

We did have licences for our greys, but once red squirrel 'preservation' started we were told in no uncertain terms that we had to keep the bodies of our greys for inspection when they died and we were not allowed to take in any more, regardless of the circumstances.

I too wouldn't keep any type of squirrel as a pet, but that's because I haven't got the space to house them properly, not because I'm ill informed about them.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> Shell195
> 
> Grey Squirrels WILL ATTACK! If a hand-reared Grey takes a dislike to an individual it will attack! I know of 2 very, very experienced animal keepers that have been attacked - not once, but numerous times - and a Grey has a severe bite!
> 
> ...


 
I never said they wouldnt attack I said its up to the keeper to be aware of what could happen, its the same with any species.

I think you will find that after 30 years of being involved in cat rescue as welfare officer and feral trapper with Cats protection I know the differance between feral cats and domestics. I am now trustee and co -founder of a large registered animal sanctuary and know enough about ferals to make me trust them more than I would an angry upset domstic. Ferals would rather hide away than attack someone were as domestics will avtually lunge at you as they have no fear of humans. All this plus a few years showing and breeding Siamese cats.

Not only do I have my 3 much loved Sphynx I also have assorted other cats including ex ferals so please keep your comments about my cats to yourself.

I really dont enjoy being spoken down to by anybody, especially some new person who I have never spoken to before! Please get your facts right before you make any further comments...........


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## CHUNK (Dec 8, 2006)

Hi Geckocider,

I'm quite sure you will now be extremely confused by the replies to your initial question, because I know I am!

While I had hoped you would choose to house Chipmunks in the housing you mentioned, it now seems that Feorag doesn't share my opinion. And that the housing is too small for Chipmunks.

But the reason for my confusion is because Feorag suggested before that you should approach Rescue Centres regarding homing Grey Squirrels. Or contacting Red Squirrel breeders knowing the measurements of the housing you have.

Please check out this link before you decide on any Squirrel species.

UK Pet Chipmunk Owners - Index

Paul.


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## CHUNK (Dec 8, 2006)

Hello Geckocider and Feorag,

I apologise, it seems that Shell195 has a problem with the housing you suggest, not Feorag! Sorry.

Shell195, 

The size of the housing for any animal is important, but the contents of the housing is far more important!

As long as the animal/s has/have enough of the ideal enrichment factors in their enclosure then it/they will be contented.

It is possible to house Chipmunks in a variety of enclosures that will enable them to carry out natural behaviour.
It doesn't matter if Chipmunks (or any animal for that matter) are housed indoors or outdoors, as long as certain measures are taken to keep the animal/s busy with near natural conditions they will be content enough to live out a long life and if paired up they will breed too. 

Paul.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

No problem with the confusion Chunk. I was just about to point that out when i read your second post. :lol2:

To be honest I didn't 'absorb' the measurements that were mentioned, but the reason I suggested that the OP contacted the squirrel rescue was because they often have disabled squirrels who've maybe been trapped and have lost legs, so are not as active as able bodied squirrels. 

To be honest if the OP approached the rescue, he'd be asked about his enclosure and if the rescue thought it was too small, then they would tell him.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

CHUNK said:


> Hello Geckocider and Feorag,
> 
> I apologise, it seems that Shell195 has a problem with the housing you suggest, not Feorag! Sorry.
> 
> ...


 

I do have a problem with any small active animals being kept in small enclosures. I dont think its anything to do with whats in the cage, they need to be able to have as much space as possible. Imo squirrels need an aviary and no indoor cage could fullfill their needs(disabled animals excepted)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> From experience of keeping & breeding cats ( Pedigrees - with fur, not furless aberations!)


Going totally off track here, but do you mind if I ask what your prefix was for your ***** - presumably if you did it for 20 years, then you did it properly and registered your kittens with GCCF etc? 



Shell195 said:


> I do have a problem with any small active animals being kept in small enclosures. I dont think its anything to do with whats in the cage, they need to be able to have as much space as possible. Imo squirrels need an aviary and no indoor cage could fullfill their needs(disabled animals excepted)


I'm with Shell and it has been said in a previous post that height is very important.


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Feorag

"Going totally off track here, but do you mind if I ask what your prefix was for your ***** - presumably if you did it for 20 years, then you did it properly and registered your kittens with GCCF etc? "

The only way to achieve Champion, Grand Champion and UK Grands is by registering with the GCCF - as you know! And we have a variety of titles over 3 breeds! The moggies do not get shown - one of them is 20 years old this year!

Squirrels need an aviary - please do not forget that there are Ground Squirrels such as Prairie Dogs, Richardsons etc that do not require height ion their enclosure!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> The only way to achieve Champion, Grand Champion and UK Grands is by registering with the GCCF - as you know! And we have a variety of titles over 3 breeds! The moggies do not get shown - one of them is 20 years old this year!
> 
> Squirrels need an aviary - please do not forget that there are Ground Squirrels such as Prairie Dogs, Richardsons etc that do not require height ion their enclosure!


No, if you know the cat fancy, you've been able to get a champion title in this country for over 20 years, if you decided to show Cat Association in the early days, or FiFe or TiCA now.

However, I'm still curious to know what your prefix was or the name of your champion as I've had an interest in Maine ***** for as long as I bred my somalis.

I hadn't forgotten about ground squirrels, but I was responding to the discussion regarding chipmunks and it doesn't need a University Degree to know that a ground squirrel is what they say it is.


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## CHUNK (Dec 8, 2006)

Shell195,

Your comment that no indoor cage could fulfil a Squirrels needs is crazy!
The fact is that indoor housing can be ideal for any animal as long as the species needs are provided.

Since when did Squirrel housing only be acceptable outside and not inside? There are many Squirrels species that are housed and bred in enclosures that are internal rather than external.

What do you suggest as the minimal size of a Chipmunk, or any other Squirrel aviary


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

CHUNK said:


> Shell195,
> 
> Your comment that no indoor cage could fulfil a Squirrels needs is crazy!
> The fact is that indoor housing can be ideal for any animal as long as the species needs are provided.
> ...


 
I have no idea on exotic squirrels but my 2 chippies went into a aviary that was about 10ft square. I really hate to see animals living in minimum sized enclosures. If something this size was indoors I wouldnt have a problem with it at all. Our sanctuary takes in ex cage birds and they live their lives out in our large aviaries and the differance it makes to see them in flocks with lots of space is amazing.The same goes for our rabbits, we wont rehome them unless they have a minimum sized hutch of 6ft long with a secure run they can access at all times. Just because animals survives and are willing to breed when in a small space doesnt mean they are happy!


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Shell195

Guess your comment "I have no idea on exotic squirrels" sums up many of the comments on this thread! The Grey is technically an "exotic squirrel"! They are an introduced species - classified as vermin.

As for a 10ft by 10ft flight for Chipmunks - a 12ft square unit is considered by American Zoo authorities as being adequate for a pair of Lynx!

Ever heard of the British Rabbit Council? Would suggest that you research the subject of Rabbits - starting with the BRC. Would I be correct in assuming the sizes of hutch quoted by you originated from The Animal Gestapo aka RSPCA? 

I'm afraid that the "advice" offered by yourself and Feorag can only be described politely as faulty & misleading. You probably mean well!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> a 12ft square unit is considered by American Zoo authorities as being adequate for a pair of Lynx!


Adequate is not enough for some people - would you keep a lynx in an enclosure that small? As you put yourself forward as an expert on all things exotic and feline , I would hope not.





duffey said:


> Ever heard of the British Rabbit Council? Would suggest that you research the subject of Rabbits - starting with the BRC. Would I be correct in assuming the sizes of hutch quoted by you originated from The Animal Gestapo aka RSPCA?
> 
> I'm afraid that the "advice" offered by yourself and Feorag can only be described politely as faulty & misleading. You probably mean well!


How very offensive!!! How dare you be so condescending!

You really are a rude person - and I suspect an exaggerator!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> Shell195
> 
> Guess your comment "I have no idea on exotic squirrels" sums up many of the comments on this thread! The Grey is technically an "exotic squirrel"! They are an introduced species - classified as vermin.
> 
> ...


 
I find your reply very offensive, our sanctuary doesnt need to use anyones guidelines, we have our own and we stick to them in the interest of our rescued animals welfare, regardless of others thoughts!
If you think its ok to keep a pair of Lynx in an enclosure that small I suggest you change jobs.
I see you havent answered Feorags question aboout your prefix, which suggests to me that your Mainecoon showing/breeding days where exaggerated or even non existant, much the same as your knowledge of animal welfare!!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

duffey said:


> Shell195
> 
> Guess your comment "I have no idea on exotic squirrels" sums up many of the comments on this thread! The Grey is technically an "exotic squirrel"! They are an introduced species - classified as vermin.
> 
> ...


Wow you come across as an insufferable know it all. Has anybody ever told you that?

Shell was on about the size of enclosure she would feel comfortable with, not the bare minimum that would result in behavioural issues, surely as an expert in all things exotic, you could differentiate what she was saying? Or do you just like being pedantic?

I used to be a bit condescending on here in regards to torts (though it wasn't intentional), but then I took a closer look at my posts and the rest of the forum/posts of others, and realised there are many people much more knowledgeable than I, so I climbed down off my high horse and realised what a pillock I sounded...I hope you do the same


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

duffey said:


> Having kept 12 species of Squirrel - my comments are based on practical hands-on experience!


Do you have any idea which make the best eating?

I keep meaning to shoot a few greys to try them. What do you reckon?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

duffey said:


> Shell195
> 
> Guess your comment "I have no idea on exotic squirrels" sums up many of the comments on this thread! The Grey is technically an "exotic squirrel"! They are an introduced species - classified as vermin.
> 
> ...


Would that be the same authority that allows Orcas to be housed in concrete fish tanks?


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## chezequerz (Mar 30, 2008)

duffey said:


> Shell195
> 
> Guess your comment "I have no idea on exotic squirrels" sums up many of the comments on this thread! The Grey is technically an "exotic squirrel"! They are an introduced species - classified as vermin.
> 
> ...


12 square foot is 3ft x 4ft...can you even FIT a pair of Lynx into that sized space?


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

chezequerz said:


> 12 square foot is 3ft x 4ft...can you even FIT a pair of Lynx into that sized space?


That is exactly what I thought, then thought maybe I was being dumb. They obviously intended it to read 12x12 but I reckon Shell meant 5x2 for the squirrels, not 10x10.


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Chezequerz,

Presume reading and simple maths are not your strong points!

There is a difference between 12 ft square and 12 square feet!

"I cannot tolerate fools, and, for some reason, fools find that disturbing!"


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Tolerating fools is one thing, but being rude and insulting to people you don't even know is totally different!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

em_40 said:


> That is exactly what I thought, then thought maybe I was being dumb. They obviously intended it to read 12x12 but I reckon Shell meant 5x2 for the squirrels, not 10x10.


 
No I mean 10ft long x 10ft wide (x 6ft 6inches high):2thumb: Our largest aviary at the sanctuary is 30ft long x 16ft wide x 7ft high and contains at the minute 10 budgies, 8 cockateils and 2 rabbits


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought that you had put 10 squared foot, I see you didn't. Wow 10x10 is an amazing size. Don't think they 'require' that though. I would prefer to keep them in an outdoor aviary type too though. My neighbour had a group in a 6x4x6 (lxwxh) and they seemed happy enough.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> Chezequerz,
> 
> Presume reading and simple maths are not your strong points!
> 
> ...


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

em_40 said:


> I thought that you had put 10 squared foot, I see you didn't. Wow 10x10 is an amazing size. Don't think they 'require' that though. I would prefer to keep them in an outdoor aviary type too though. My neighbour had a group in a 6x4x6 (lxwxh) and they seemed happy enough.


The man who took them had it built just for them, it was amazing. I would imagine 6x4x6 would be fine for them, I just hate to see them in an indoor aviary type cage as they just arent big enough!


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Wow duffty you are summit else..
See you say you are retired.
Would expect a retired person to be somewhat mature.
There are alot of good people on here.
Why try to make issues.

Put up your number and thered be no need for forums.
All could ask you.

Ive made similiar mistakes.
Why not draw your neck in and behave like a human..
Read back and surelly you will see for yourself...

Good people shouldnt be spoken to like you are doing..


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## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

We have grey squirrels all over the place in the uk so im not sure if you can keep them if you can just ask a pest control company to call you when they next trap one


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## chezequerz (Mar 30, 2008)

duffey said:


> Chezequerz,
> 
> Presume reading and simple maths are not your strong points!
> 
> ...


Actually I have level 3 qualifications in both, however we all miss stuff from time to time or misinterpret a statement. I don't find you disturbing, I assure you when i close RFUK in a couple seconds and go back to watching the football and feeding my animals I probably won't give you a second thought. As for tolerance, it's very clear you don't have a great deal of that. As for the fool comment it happens I can quote stuff too: "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Chez

Re your quote "any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do"

That actually sums up the behaviour of the little clique who 'liked' your post!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

I do love, how if we happen to agree with somebody other than Duffy, we're automatically assumed as being in a 'clique'. Quite bizarre. To the OP, I'm sorry your thread was derailed so much. Have you had any more thoughts on any squiggles you'd like to keep?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Dare I agree with that comment, because we chat on another thread?

Yes I can because I'm an independent thinker and agree with what has been said against the nasty attitude of Duffey. Although Shell and I are friends on this forum, I haven't had a lot of dealings with Em, so I wouldn't class us as 'clique-y' at all. She is, after all entitled to her own opinion of what impression he is giving on this forum.

And I'm still waiting to find out what his breeding prefix was!

OP, I bet this has made you think about not bothering with squirrels in case all experts have the same attitude as Duffey!

However, let me assure you that they don't!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I see my post wasn't replied to...... I feel left out now. Is it because Im not a lady perhaps? :whistling2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Maybe he'd run out of insults??


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Dont think thats the case with regard to insult.
Below is a PM from Duftty,
Which in my mind says it all


I'd never considered myself as an 'expert' - despite keeping 750+ species of bird, 50+ species of Exotic (I.e. Non domestic) animals and 100+ species of Reptile, Amphibian & Chelonian over the past 55 years!

I only ever comment on species that I have personally kept (as per above) so when someone posts inaccurate or misleading advice - shouldn't that be questioned - even at the risk of upsetting some outsized egos?

As an example - the Striped Tenrec thread. All I know re Striped Tenrec is second hand info - friends in Netherlands warned me against keeping the species, and I heed advice from those with practical experience. I was one of the first people in the UK to keep the Lesser Madagascan Hedgehog Tenrec (Echinops telfairi) in about 2002 (long before most UK keepers even knew the existed) but the two species are radically different!

I agree there are many good people on the Forum - but very few of the 'good' ones have participated in the Squirrel thread. The "Northern Witches" & their friends are upset - but, oddly enough, I couldn't care less! I was tought many years ago to say what I thought - if someone doesn't like it - they can lump it!

Thanks for your opinion - but if I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Looked pretty reasonable till the ending..
Thing is duftty this is a forum where opinions can be given by all members.
Including myself....

Stop to think that maybe these people you are having a go at are your minors.
I took the time to look you up to find out you are infact registered as a mature man,

Sometimes we need to stop and think.
I Like you say things how they are.
But have tried very hard to get point over with a bit diplomacy.
Hard work it was as well.

But i tend to think worth it as it gives a better chance of getting a point over
and avoiding conflict.
You seem to want the opposite...
Thriving on argueing and having a big list of enamies.

Spellings still not any better..lol

Why did you answer myself by means of a pm.?
Why not open or was it too difficult to slag people off publicly.
Dont see why as youve made a good effort at it already...

Weve all kept a good selection of animals over the years.
I used to have quite a few that others have on here.
Have read posts that i thought to be not how we done it.
But now we keep only primates as i wanted to specialize in one thing.
I would tend to think that our ethics and welfare are good.
I work to keep our hobby so as not to need to sell.
As we dont believe in it.
But we have a saying in our circle.

It may work for me but not for you.

Have a good day..


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Dont think thats the case with regard to insult.
> Below is a PM from Duftty,
> Which in my mind says it all
> 
> ...


 
Peter, I think you will find you are not the only person to recieve a pm off Duffey!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Peter, I think you will find you are not the only person to recieve a pm off Duffey!



Nope. I too received one where he said he doesn't have hours to spend on this forum like myself and some named others clearly have time to do...yet he went out of his way to pm myself and you and possibly others, and the pm he sent to me wasn't nearly as nice as the one you received Petera. Apparently I was part of a 'witch hunt' as I stated how he came across. Ah well.

It's one thing sharing experience, and if you genuinly have something to offer then by all means, but to talk to members the way he was doing, with an air of snobbish authority, arrogance and outright rudeness, is uncalled for. It's an awful first impression to make on here. He may well be very knowledgeable but it won't be that people think of when they see his name.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi

As Em40 mentioned earlier I have kept Prevost Squirrels. They are stunning animals that require quite large enclosures. When getting ready to mate part of the ritual is for the male to chase the female and therefor they require massive amounts of space. They enjoy running through tunnels, so we utilised large plastic piping, the sort used for drains, made tunnels from wire mesh and covered them in brnches to make them more natural.

Feeding is pretty straight forward, plenty of veg, fruit, nuts, we also fed lactose free primate pellets as these were fortified with supplements.

Also have Finlayson's Squirrels _Callosciurus finlaysonii_ which are a sub species of the Prevosts. 
Much the same care as above.

We have kept / looked after Grey Squirrels and in my opinion are no harder to keep then any other species of squirrel. In fact I would say they are relitively easy to keep. Yes they can bite and can do some damage but so can a rat, GPR, RGS, PD's , Prevosts,etc, etc. It is always a risk with most animals you keep.

I do hope you have not been put off from keeping squirrels as they are very rewarding animals to keep.

Best Wishes

Neil


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

kodakira said:


> We have kept / looked after Grey Squirrels and in my opinion are no harder to keep then any other species of squirrel. In fact I would say they are relitively easy to keep. Yes they can bite and can do some damage but so can a rat, GPR, RGS, PD's , Prevosts,etc, etc. It is always a risk with most animals you keep.
> 
> I do hope you have not been put off from keeping squirrels as they are very rewarding animals to keep.


The voice of reason!

Apparently I can't offer advice that they are no harder to keep than any other species of squirrels because I don't know anything about squirrels as I don't 'keep' them, even though I've looked after our 2 at the sanctuary for years. Shell also offered the opinion that any animal can bite and it's up to the keeper to always be aware that this can happen, but her advice was ignored, she was just 'lumped in with me' as a "northern witch" PMSL!!! Purely because she had an opinion that differed from Duffey.

Peter, he has pm'd me too - he certainly likes to tell everyone what an expert he is and how many animals he has kept, but even that doesn't make an expert in my opinion, it's just someone who has kept a lot of animals.

He told me he's bred and shown Maine ***** for 20 years. I've bred and shown Somalis for the same length of time and they show in the same section as Maine ***** and for years I collected results for the Maine **** Cat Club Secretary and yet I've never heard of him and, strangely enough neither have people I know who've been in ***** for more than 20 years? I've asked for his prefix so that I can educate myself on his cats and what he has bred, but he is ignoring my question - and I find myself wondering why - is it because he has been exaggerating his experience with breeding *****?


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## chezequerz (Mar 30, 2008)

duffey said:


> Chez
> 
> Re your quote "any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do"
> 
> That actually sums up the behaviour of the little clique who 'liked' your post!


Hey you started it as far as I can tell, top post on page 2 is the start of the beef in this thread and surprise surprise it's you starting it. It's unrealistic to assume that you can go around and dish that stuff out and not get it back. 

There's nothing cliquey about it you're acting like everything that is wrong with the animal care world.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi Feorag

Yep been following the thread, not good :whistling2:

Best Wishes

From the North Eastern Warlock :lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

It's just all so unnecessary.

Someone with the experience he claims to have could be such an asset to this forum and offer a wealth of advice to new and existing keepers, but his unpleasant manner is causing dissention. 

I may be a northern witch, but not everyone who has taken exception to his posts is a friend of mine - some I've never even had a 'conversation' with in the past, so they aren't responding because they are "in my clique", they are responding because of his outright nasty comments.

Like I said all so unnecessary.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Not only has Duffy not replied to my post on this thread, he hasn't PM'd me either! Im starting to feel left out!  And if the ladies are Northern Witches, I want to be a Northern Hobgoblin.


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

To the OP

How are you wanting to keep them ?.

Inside ?, outside ?, be able to handle ?, not bothered about handling ?. What size enclosure ?, 

Lets see if we can actually get you some info / advice :2thumb:

Best Wishes

Neil


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

*Squirrels ?*

Kodakira,

Which sub-species of Prevost's did you have?

Also, technical point, the Variable or Finlayson's Squirrel - C. Finlaysonii - is NOT a sub-species of the Prevost's - C. Prevosti - but a species in it's own right!


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Technical question...
If its a true species 
out of the 13-17 species of finlaysonii
which are the true species...
Or could nobody be bothered to name them.
Or are the experts doing feild studdies wrong.
Or maybe they havent met you yet to give all the answers.

The guy your asking is trying to do what you should.
Help the original op get some answers.

Bit of guidance in the direction needed.

Lifes too short mate.
Wake up smell the coffee and get one.


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## duffey (Mar 1, 2012)

Peteraroberton

If you look back, I tried to make practical comments in my first post - and got attacked for my comments!

If someone is wrong - they should shut up & accept it!

Talking of being wrong - the Trinominal system of identification needs to be explained!

Callosciurus (family) : prevosti (species) : rafflesii (sub-species

Your comment "out of the 13 - 17 species of Finlaysonii which are the true species?" Is very disturbing! There are NOT 13 - 17 "species" of Finlaysonii - there 13 - 17 SUBSPECIES of C. Finlaysonii - dependent on the Taxonomic authority used. C.f.finlaysonii being the nominate race.

Most of the Prevosts in captivity originate from a German breeder who went to great lengths to ensure that all the sub-species of Prevosts that he bred (about 6 ssp from memory) were bred true.

You can be as insulting as you like - but do please get your facts right!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Your first comment was useful, but no one attacked you, they just had different experiences to you and so they said what they're own experiences were, you then started questioning them.

People can have two different experiences with the same species of animal, it doesn't make either one right or wrong. It also depends on what you want from a pet too I suppose, some people are hands on, other are hands off. These are things that Kodakira is making effort to find out what is wanted from the OP but again you are derailing the thread by being pedantic.


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

I am shocked that all this insulting and arrogance has gone on for so long when advice was all that was asked for. I pity the person that came on here and asked for advice, what must they think? 

Its great that people have such a great interest and knowledge of species, if only we could all share and be excited to talk to others about what we love, without feeling that we are talking rubbish or that we should just keep quiet for fear of being verbally insulted or attacked!

Sometimes we all may give some advice or info that someone else may not believe to be correct. In my opinion i would love to be corrected, respectfully. Knowledge is the most wonderful thing and animals are the only thing i have ever been passionate about or have had the confidence to chat to others about. To be made to feel stupid on a forum or insulted just makes me want to not join in at all. Shame on those people that make others feel that way. 

My knowledge of squirrels are basic but its my knowledge and my research. I chat to people who have great knowledge of squirrels and who will willingly share any information they can give. Because of that i feel confidant that i can phone or visit these people should the need arise with out shrinking back and being cautious. That is how husbandry, knowledge and better conditions for such wonderful creatures happen. I cant say that i would feel confident coming on here and asking for help. How will that benefit anyone or any animal? 

Rant nearly over :blush: ......

By the way, absolutely any knowledge i have or ideas, i would willingly and respectfully share, your only problem may be that once i start talking animals, i may never shut up! :whistling2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

duffey said:


> If you look back, I tried to make practical comments in my first post - and got attacked for my comments!
> 
> If someone is wrong - they should shut up & accept it!


Em is absolutely true! Nobody attacked you, we just offered a different perspective based on our experiences. So who is to say who is wrong? Why should we, who have obviously had different experiences to you be told we are wrong, accept it and shut up??? It's an open forum and we are entitled to speak from our own experience.

I think most people would agree that you are the person who did the 'attacking' to use your own words, you are the person who started the name calling - Northern Witches indeed!!! Just because we've had different experiences to you and so disagreed and we won't be talked down to by you.

As some who is over 55 I think it's time you grew up and stopped telling everyone that your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

duffey said:


> Peteraroberton
> 
> If you look back, I tried to make practical comments in my first post - and got attacked for my comments!
> 
> ...



I at no point have insulted you.
Like you i say how it is...

I am not an expert on squirrels.
But quoted what i read for myself...

But im wondering how all the squirrel keepers on here have managed without you..

But still stick to my guns and again suggest you pull your neck in and behave.


Its a forum for open discussion.
Opinions do differ.


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