# ID snake please



## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

Hi

We bred our spider to firefly last year and I'm struggling to ID what this one is.

She was light when born (I've added pic in), so thought bumblebee, but she has got darker with age so wondering if she might be a fire spider instead.

Any help would be great. We are looking to sell her as she doesn't fit in with our breeding plans, although she is such a great snake that she may be a keeper of I get my way 😅


----------



## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

My guess (and I am not expert) is Fire Spider.


----------



## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> My guess (and I am not expert) is Fire Spider.


Thanks for your input, the only reason I didn't think fire spider is because the underbelly comes up high and I've not seen that on a fire spider before 😅 plus is brighter than typical fire spiders

Royal python ID can be tricky sometime 🙃


----------



## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

Like I said, I am not an expert.

Guess you will just need to pair it in future to determine what it is.


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

M1chelle said:


> Thanks for your input, the only reason I didn't think fire spider is because the underbelly comes up high and I've not seen that on a fire spider before 😅 plus is brighter than typical fire spiders
> 
> Royal python ID can be tricky sometime 🙃


More so when you can consider the variation between individuals in the same clutch, and that colours change from when they come out of the egg. I've paired the same two adults together twice and have had 18 hatchlings in total from them. In 2019 the clutch produced two normals, one had a very yellow belly, and the saddles were a deep golden tan, almost light orange where as the other had a very high bright white content with a flat white belly - the two were so different it made me think that there could be some hidden gene in one or both parents


----------



## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

Malc said:


> More so when you can consider the variation between individuals in the same clutch, and that colours change from when they come out of the egg. I've paired the same two adults together twice and have had 18 hatchlings in total from them. In 2019 the clutch produced two normals, one had a very yellow belly, and the saddles were a deep golden tan, almost light orange where as the other had a very high bright white content with a flat white belly - the two were so different it made me think that there could be some hidden gene in one or both parents


It's just so hard sometimes 😅 I currently have her advertised as bumblebee but thought I should get opinions! I will let possible buyers know that she might be either or.

From the same clutch we produced 1 X firebee, 2 X spider, 1 X firefly and 1 X normal. I thought the variation would help but I'm still stumped with this one 😅


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

To give you some idea of variation, here are two lessers from the same clutch




















Now as the pairing was a Lesser Paster to Lesser Platinum you might think that the second snake, having more yellow compared to the first could be a Pastel Lesser... but when you see a pastel lesser form the same clutch (below) it's clear that the middle is still a lesser. The difficulty is knowing if the second snake is your typical lesser and something is missing form the first to give it the cream colouration, or that is the normal colouration and the second snake is the one that is different by having more gold / yellow in the patterns.










But if the odds gods were not good to me and I had a mix of Pastels, Normals and Lessers, with that variation you can see how easy it is to get thing wrong, and mis identify the middle snake incorrectly.


----------



## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

Very nice looking snakes and very confusing ones too 😅
I might put something in the description of the snake to say it's either a bumblebee or a fire spider, let them decide for themselves 🤷‍♀️ I'm not fussed if she doesn't sell, she's a lovely snake 😁

Thanks


----------



## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

M1chelle said:


> Very nice looking snakes and very confusing ones too 😅
> I might put something in the description of the snake to say it's either a bumblebee or a fire spider, let them decide for themselves 🤷‍♀️ I'm not fussed if she doesn't sell, she's a lovely snake 😁
> 
> Thanks


Keep a very close eye on her for spider/bumblebee neurological issues.


----------



## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

wilkinss77 said:


> Keep a very close eye on her for spider/bumblebee neurological issues.


One of the reasons I've stated before that we need to put more consideration for the snakes health and well-being before our want for different morphs. You never know if the other snake you breed with one with a known genetic issue is carrying a faulty gene. Those 2 faulty genes mixing can have devastating affects. 

Something I've learnt over the past 29yrs is the complexity of genetics and the affects of faulty genes.


----------



## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Elly66 said:


> One of the reasons I've stated before that we need to put more consideration for the snakes health and well-being before our want for different morphs. You never know if the other snake you breed with one with a known genetic issue is carrying a faulty gene. Those 2 faulty genes mixing can have devastating affects.
> 
> Something I've learnt over the past 29yrs is the complexity of genetics and the affects of faulty genes.


& one of the reasons why I don't keep morphs- the other being that I like my reptiles to look like the wild forms.


----------



## M1chelle (May 20, 2020)

Thanks, spider gene is my favourite and so I have been keeping a very close eye but she is showing little too no signs ATM 🤞 we probably won't breed the spider again as we got what we wanted


----------

