# bugs for babies



## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

while i am trying to get my milos grass snake babies eating i have been thinking on natural food for tiny babies. a lot of the species i really like have tiny babies (thamnophis/natrix types) and often many of them. i also read that a lot of them are known to be temperamental when it comes getting feeding. it seems like the prevailing way to offer food is chopped larger prey. i am not knocking that, it is the kind of thing that filter down from trial and error so i am not trying to rewrite the rules. obviously there is nobody in the wild chopping up mice/fish/worms for them. so what would be the natural diet? 
amphibians are a regular feature for natricines but its a fairly narrow window for small tadpoles really. it seems like soft bodied bugs would be most likely. things like grubs and maggots, which are available almost everywhere for almost the whole year. they would also be found relatively easily under close cover like bark and logs which are favoured by tiny babies.
so in a captive setting, would that be a good thing to offer? obviously maggots would be easy, just leave some meat out for flies to lay eggs on and gather them up and grow them on. maybe things like calci-worms would be good too. it seems like that approach would be easier to ensure they are getting a good diet when it comes to vitamins and minerals.
plus they move, so they could be really enticing and minimise human intrusion while they are getting established. they would be a lot easier to keep than fish fry too. 
i know i am not the first to think this, but i dont really hear of people doing it. it seems like it would make sense though.

any thoughts?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I would get hold of Andrew Grimm on here (AndrewG) as he has bred this, and several other, grass snake subspecies


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## spigotbush (Feb 8, 2019)

yeah i know, thats who i got my milos hatchlings from. i am rather jealous of his collection. he has already been a huge help. 
i was just thinking in general terms. as the species which have very small young tend to have a reputation for being hard to establish. it just makes sense to me that tiny snakes would be inclined to feed up on grubs and the like until they are big enough to overpower larger prey. i may be missing something but it seems logical.


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## frogeyed (Nov 8, 2012)

spigotbush said:


> yeah i know, thats who i got my milos hatchlings from. i am rather jealous of his collection. he has already been a huge help.
> i was just thinking in general terms. as the species which have very small young tend to have a reputation for being hard to establish. it just makes sense to me that tiny snakes would be inclined to feed up on grubs and the like until they are big enough to overpower larger prey. i may be missing something but it seems logical.


Very logical, maybe to start them feeding waxworms would be a better choice, not everything seems keen on calciworms, I think it's the earthy taste they have, but maybe that would be okay for them.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

spigotbush said:


> yeah i know, thats who i got my milos hatchlings from. i am rather jealous of his collection. he has already been a huge help.
> i was just thinking in general terms. as the species which have very small young tend to have a reputation for being hard to establish. it just makes sense to me that tiny snakes would be inclined to feed up on grubs and the like until they are big enough to overpower larger prey. i may be missing something but it seems logical.


Naturally, most grass snake hatchlings will over winter before feeding.
When they emerge there will be tadpoles and fish fry available which is what I suspect they will start on.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Small earthworms or chopped up earthworms often work.
When all else fails, a live guppy in a see-through, tiny dish like an Ikea Glimma tealight holder or something similar, rarely fails... although that can get expensive over time.
As Ian said late born young often do not eat until the following year after brumation.
I have had no success with maggots or other bugs, although Viperine snakes (_Natrix maura_) will sometimes take leeches.
Last ditch effort when all else fails can involve sticking a tiny morsel of fish flavoured cat food in their mouth. They seem to find this hard to spit out so will often swallow it if gently put down with it in their mouth. Once they get used to it you can scent fish or rodents with this and it will work. (Obviously the goal is to get them off the cat food as quickly as possible as I doubt it is very good for them long term).


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