# zoology or biology?



## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

*zoology/biology career choice?*

I'm 15 so some might argue it's to early for me to be considering my future career, however in a way it motivates me in school, so it cant be bad. 
Also I just have some general questions which hopefully people can answer as I can't find the answers to them on the internet.

first of all I would just like to point out that I would love to become a zoologist and i'm very intrested in field research and conservation.

(I know it's very competitive in zoology).


- Would it be better for me to study a more general subject like just general biology(because there might be more jobs avalible), or go for something more specific which i would enjoy more like zoology or primatology etc?

- can you get a biology/zoology 4 year courses. where 3 years is your bachelors and the last year is your masters? (the reason I ask this is because my brother going to study chemistry in uni and he has something similar to this)

- what type of jobs do zoologists get if you only have a bachelors or masters (because i hear you really need a PhD for field research)

- Is there anything i can do now, besides revising and trying to get the best grades i can in GCSE, that will give me an advantage in the future. (I have been trying my best to get voluntary work with animals, however so far iv'e had no luck because im not 16, or the company are unable to take on volunteers)

sorry for so many questions and the long read:blush:


Thanks,


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## TommyBurt (Dec 14, 2009)

im going to be doing a 3 year zoology course when im 18 or so. at anglia ruskin university becoming a zoologist isnt as competitive as some think at least that's what i have been told i was told that specialising in certain feilds such as herpetology and entomology and mammalogy etc is the hard bit these are the ones you need a PhD for but i don't think you need a phd to be a zoologist in general just a masters your gonna want A levels in sciences and maths however my cousin did a college course and got in to a zoology course lol im doing a college course and a A level in biology for the zoology course im trying to get on to requires 240 ucas points as for anything you can do now to give you a future advantage the only advice i can give you is concentrate on those gcse's you gonna need em


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

oh right thanks

so once you have the bachelors or masters what options do you have from there as far as work goes?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Spencer95 said:


> first of all I would just like to point out that I would love to become a zoologist and i'm very intrested in field research and conservation.


Cool beans. I'm currently studying towards a PhD in biodiversity stuff, I hope some of this is of use.




> - Would it be better for me to study a more general subject like just general biology(because there might be more jobs avalible), or go for something more specific which i would enjoy more like zoology or primatology etc?


You can do either a specific degree or start off general. There's no harm in applying to do "Zoology" then changing your mind - in fact you probably will. 

At 15 I wanted to be a "marine biologist", then a botanist later when I liked carnivorous plants, then a "Zoologist". I later realised (at uni) that Ecology was the thing that I was actually interested in, and it linked all these things together. I initially started doing a B.Sc in "Biology" as is the usual here with most folk (just the way the School of Biology works at St Andrews, or did anyway when I did it). 

I didn't realise at the time that Zoology is at the level of the individual organism for the most part - you need to study cell biology and such. I hated that stuff, I prefer communities and populations of animals, so ecology was the way forward for me. The important thing is that you can change your degree title as your opinion changes when you start studying (just don't do it too often I suppose, that might muck up module choices!). 

In the end, you could just do a degree in something like "Ecology and Conservation". It's useful to keep things a little broad, as being too narrow too early on is not always useful. I still think that even as an invertebrate ecologist, I should know stuff about plants, cells, fungi, marine organisms, etc etc. Chemistry was useful too! I now study arachnids in urban environments, so you never know how it might turn out.







> - can you get a biology/zoology 4 year courses. where 3 years is your bachelors and the last year is your masters? (the reason I ask this is because my brother going to study chemistry in uni and he has something similar to this)


Scottish system = 4 years for B.Sc
English = 3 years. 

I'm sure some will offer combined B.Sc + M.sc courses, depends on what you really want to do. Worth considering that a M.Sc is usually not funded, so can cost a chunk.



> - what type of jobs do zoologists get if you only have a bachelors or masters (because i hear you really need a PhD for field research)


Lots of things....a mate of mine works in a Zoo with animal husbandry, I have a funded PhD with aims of doing research afterwards. Others I know have gotten involved with policy making for conservation and yet others still have done stuff with absolutely nothing in common with Zoology! :lol:

PhD study is not a requirement to have a career in zoology / biology. I just is a different way of getting there. My personal feeling is that if you do a PhD then you should aim to do research afterwards. 

There's plenty of non-academics however with M.Sc or PhD, involved with various "applied" fields and branches of ecology. A mate of mine used to work at the monterey bay aquarium and is now doing a PhD after years of being at the forefront of jellyfish culture. 




> - Is there anything i can do now, besides revising and trying to get the best grades i can in GCSE, that will give me an advantage in the future. (I have been trying my best to get voluntary work with animals, however so far iv'e had no luck because im not 16, or the company are unable to take on volunteers)
> 
> sorry for so many questions and the long read:blush:


Voluntary work is not a bad idea, although what looks even better these days (since anyone with dosh can volunteer), is applying to funded placements and getting them. If you can win a scholarship for a 6 week project or something it shows a lot more gumption than if you simply stump up £8000 yourself and pay your way in. 

It might be worth joining the British Ecological Society as they have lots of funding open to members. If you have a specific interest (i.e. I'm a member of various arachnological societies) you can join them too - never hurts, and you can keep up to date with the names and research easily in your field. There's other societies worth a look too, there's a zoological one (I forget the name), various entomological ones and I'm sure there's ones for mammals and birds, plants, etc, etc, both UK based and international. 

The BES have small grants available that you could get teachers or that to apply to for small under 16 porjects or similar. They usually award a small budget for consumables and allow you some experience of designing a field experiment or similar. 

As for length, no worries. My reply is huge as well :lol:


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## TommyBurt (Dec 14, 2009)

there are many places a zoologist can work universities, museums (i want to work at the natural history museum) and zoos i really want to become a herpetologist the natural history museum does Phd courses i think but im not sure how that works there was one about cacilian evolution i like the science behind the evolution and diversity of life


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

Thank you both for your amazing replies and great tips!


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

GRB said:


> Cool beans. I'm currently studying towards a PhD in biodiversity stuff, I hope some of this is of use.
> 
> 
> You can do either a specific degree or start off general. There's no harm in applying to do "Zoology" then changing your mind - in fact you probably will.
> ...





TommyBurt said:


> there are many places a zoologist can work universities, museums (i want to work at the natural history museum) and zoos i really want to become a herpetologist the natural history museum does Phd courses i think but im not sure how that works there was one about cacilian evolution i like the science behind the evolution and diversity of life


wow thanks


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## TommyBurt (Dec 14, 2009)

me and my cousin joined the royal entomological sociaty lots to learn off that site


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## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

I can try and help with a few of these questions  My experiences thus far have been in Sheffield so I can only really provide first hand experience from here.

With regards to which course will be 'better' - it really depends on the course structures and what you plan to do with the degree afterwards. If you study 'general' biology, then you could argue that you have a broader understanding and can apply yourself in a variety of roles - you could also argue that you are a jack of all trades and master of none! But it can also help you figure out exactly what area of biology you really are interested in. It all depends on what you are applying for. i.e., what do you mean by 'I would love to become a zoologist' - what exactly is the type of thing you are aiming for? What is your perception of a 'zoologist'?

I would definitely suggest you read the course/module descriptions provided by the department carefully. They are very variable between universities - some Biology courses are heavily ecology/evolution biased, some are marine biology biased, some are molecular biology biased, some are all rounders! In fact, I should also say that some are much better if you are looking for a more applied course - e.g. a course that teaches you things like GIS, surveying skills etc. This type of course may be better if you are more interested in a more practical career rather than a research career. 

In Sheffield, the course is quite ecology/evolution biased, though the Biology course is quite flexible. There are a few core modules, then you can select the modules which interest you for the 2nd and 3rd years.
The Zoology course is structured in the same way - except there are a couple of additional core modules which are, of course, zoology based. But as you have a list of other modules to choose from, if you really wanted you could still study plant modules alongside! 

Essentially, it would have been entirely possible for one student to graduate with a Biology degree, and another to graduate with a Zoology degree, but to have studied pretty much the same modules as each other! But saying that, Zoology students get priority on zoology modules/field courses.

You can indeed get 4 year courses - Sheffield is one which offers these. I wish I had taken the opportunity when I had the chance! I was naive and thought I could just go and do a masters elsewhere - didn't occur to me that I couldn't get another student loan until it was too late!

As far as research goes - yes, you would need a PhD if you want a career in research. However, there are also research technician posts which often only require a masters/bachelors (with plenty of relevant experience though!) - although you aren't necessarily 'leading' the research, you can still have a very hands-on role. There are also sometimes opportunities to study for a PhD alongside a paid technician post.
If you are interested in the research side of things, it's always worth asking departments of interest if they run summer bursary schemes, where you spend a number of weeks assisting with research in one of the labs - this is something I did and I would highly recommend.

What type of jobs do zoologists get with a BSc...i'm just thinking back now to the people I did my course with... not many of those who graduated with the BSc went into a biology career. Not saying they couldn't of course, just that they didn't, the course was more a 'means to an end' rather than a final career choice! Oh, actually, one guy went to Oz and worked as a guide on shark diving trips on the barrier reef... I was very jealous of that one :lol2:

Everybody else who I can think of doing biology jobs were those who did a masters/PhD. Though as I said, it's not necessarily because they couldn't, but because the 4 year option it made it 'easier' for people to study for the masters if they were serious about pursuing a biology based career.

As far as things you can do now - where abouts are you based? Can you volunteer with the local wildlife trust? I would suggest this would be looked upon more favourably than, for example, working in a pet shop. You will pick up some knowledge of natural history, ID skills, and some basic ecology. In fact, one girl on my course had volunteered with her local wildlife trust from the age of 16, so as soon as she graduated with her masters they had a job available for her. They even tried to convince her to graduate with her BSc and not bother with her masters year! Never underestimate the value of 'getting your foot in the door' : victory:


ETA: looks like GRB was replying at the same time - I apologies for my equally massive post :lol2: He also highlights one of my points about how courses differ - in Shef, _everybody _had to do a cell biology and molecular biology module in the first year, regardless of whether you were studying biology, zoology or plant science. Then you are free to choose - so as a zoologist, it was entirely possible to have a heavily ecology biased degree and never study cells again!


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

neep_neep said:


> I can try and help with a few of these questions  My experiences thus far have been in Sheffield so I can only really provide first hand experience from here.
> 
> With regards to which course will be 'better' - it really depends on the course structures and what you plan to do with the degree afterwards. If you study 'general' biology, then you could argue that you have a broader understanding and can apply yourself in a variety of roles - you could also argue that you are a jack of all trades and master of none! But it can also help you figure out exactly what area of biology you really are interested in. It all depends on what you are applying for. i.e., what do you mean by 'I would love to become a zoologist' - what exactly is the type of thing you are aiming for? What is your perception of a 'zoologist'?
> 
> ...


Wow thanks again for another great post!

*"- what exactly is the type of thing you are aiming for? What is your perception of a 'zoologist'?"* I would love to have a practical career, not one working in a lab staring down a microscope (no offence to anyone who does this, it's just not what i want to do) I would like to be out on field researches. Helping with conservation, maybe working with zoo's etc that's what I would like, working with the animals and helping them and their speices to survive.


I have found something thats perfect for me in the last half an hour http://www.thebhs.org/YHC.html I think this will be hugely beneficial to me. All i have to do is wait for the reply to the email to see if the meeting and events are around my area.


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## TommyBurt (Dec 14, 2009)

ignore this was a failed post lol


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## TommyBurt (Dec 14, 2009)

Spencer95 said:


> Wow thanks again for another great post!
> 
> *"- what exactly is the type of thing you are aiming for? What is your perception of a 'zoologist'?"* I would love to have a practical career, not one working in a lab staring down a microscope (no offence to anyone who does this, it's just not what i want to do) I would like to be out on field researches. Helping with conservation, maybe working with zoo's etc that's what I would like, working with the animals and helping them and their speices to survive.
> 
> ...


that's a good site lots of good publications for members


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Spencer95 said:


> I would love to have a practical career, not one working in a lab staring down a microscope (no offence to anyone who does this, it's just not what i want to do) I would like to be out on field researches. Helping with conservation, maybe working with zoo's etc that's what I would like, working with the animals and helping them and their speices to survive.


Hey matey, 

Good on you for having a good idea of where you'd like to be and the beginnings of the drive and self motivation needed to achieve it 

I work in a Zoo with around 50 species of reptiles and amphibians, including three active conservation projects.
I'm in the middle of a month in Mauritius on paid field work, I led the (ex-situ component only!) captive breeding for translocation project for _Nactus coindemirensis_ and later this week I'll be involved in releasing them to the wild.

These jobs do exist!
I took English lit, Biology, Geology and Chemistry for my A levels, then went on to do a degree in Biology and Geology at Manchester.
While you certainly want to achieve a relatively broad degree qualification, in the end it will be all of your other experiences, determination, ambition and talent that get you to the job of your dreams 

Ask me anything!!! I'm always happy to help, I had a flock of Notts Trent students buzzing around me here for the last week as I just couldn't help handing out career advice and encouragement!


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

You too could sleep under the stars wrapped in a tarp! and work with endangered species in the wild and captivity


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm in my third year of a 4 year honours degree in Zoology. Its VERY biology based, my courses so far covering cellular biology, marine biology, chemistry, animal physiology, animal psychology, aquatic conservation and exploitation, animal population ecology and a few others I can't remember. 

I have learnt very little that would actually help me in the field however- ideally I would like to be a zoo/safari park keeper working on breeding programmes and habitat reconstruction, but I am depending on my self motivated work and experience to help me with that rather than my degree. It will look good on paper, but overall I've been disappointed.


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

oh right thanks everyone!


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

Saedcantas said:


> Hey matey,
> 
> Good on you for having a good idea of where you'd like to be and the beginnings of the drive and self motivation needed to achieve it
> 
> ...


i know this thread is not aimed at me but zoology was also something im considering and im 15 next month basicly i talked to my headmaster not long ago because i dont enjoy school even though im relatively bright. And i talked through with him when i want to leave school and what i want to do and i talked throught the fact that in glasgow uni if you get 3 a'sand a b you can get an unconditional for zoology and he said to me that he wreckoned that was easily achievable for me what sort of carrer choices would that enfold and if i got 4 a;s and a b you can do a three year course. There are 3 jobs i would like to do be a herpetology keeper at a zoo do field research and conservation or if herpetology fizzled for me it would have to be working with primates and i have always wanted to work with animals for as long as i knew what a job was and i hoped you could give me some insight into the prospects for possibly a 20 year old with a zoology degree


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

I think for the most part a degree in either zoology or biology are interchangeable for animal related jobs. It is probably best to look around at how different courses are put together, my BSc was Zoology at Bangor and was very field course oriented. I am now at Nottingham and the undergrad seems to be mostly lab focussed. As has been said previously, it is usually reasonably easy to switch to a different degree within the same department within the first two years. People that I studied with are doing various things now; zoo keepers, park ranger work abroad, lab work/technicians. Quite a lot are doing PhDs now in quite a diverse range of subjects, I am in toxinology but others are in ecology, molecular ecology, evolutionary biology etc.

Best of luck,
David.


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## 064ldingla (Nov 8, 2009)

this thread has been very useful to me, i too am 16 and planning to do A level biology and continung to do a 4 year zoology course at Cardiff University, but i was unsure where to go from there.....so thanks, even though i didn't start this thread:whistling2:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> I had a flock of Notts Trent students buzzing around me here for the last week as I just couldn't help handing out career advice and encouragement!


where are you based then? I think us biology/zoology students at trent go to Bristol zoo or Dublin in year 2, next year for me. 

Anyway OP I'm doing Zoology here, well it's called Zoo biology at trent but UCAS wise it has the same course code as Zoology does at other Unis. Obviously this is an ex poly and I'd say the course is a little more applied then you might get at say Nottingham, which I really didn't like the look of as year two was very heavy on computer software. Trent offers Animal Biology and Zoo biology. The courses are very similiar you share the majority of lectures together throughout the three years of study. However on the couple of modules you don't share Animal Biology focuses on native species and quite a bit on rural aspects like farming, dog breeding, horses etc. Where as zoo biology focuses on exotic animals in their habitats and their care in captivity.(along with things like CITES. Zoo biology does CITES, looks at illegal wildlife smuggling, poaching etc, animal does UK legislation like dangerous dogs, animal welfare act etc).


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

joeyboy said:


> where are you based then? I think us biology/zoology students at trent go to Bristol zoo or Dublin in year 2, next year for me.
> 
> Anyway OP I'm doing Zoology here, well it's called Zoo biology at trent but UCAS wise it has the same course code as Zoology does at other Unis. Obviously this is an ex poly and I'd say the course is a little more applied then you might get at say Nottingham, which I really didn't like the look of as year two was very heavy on computer software. Trent offers Animal Biology and Zoo biology. The courses are very similiar you share the majority of lectures together throughout the three years of study. However on the couple of modules you don't share Animal Biology focuses on native species and quite a bit on rural aspects like farming, dog breeding, horses etc. Where as zoo biology focuses on exotic animals in their habitats and their care in captivity.(along with things like CITES. Zoo biology does CITES, looks at illegal wildlife smuggling, poaching etc, animal does UK legislation like dangerous dogs, animal welfare act etc).


 so what are your job prospects when you finish then?


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

MP reptiles said:


> so what are your job prospects when you finish then?


honestly it's quite a generalised degree. Some modules are quite applied(like exotic animal management) and so I think it's a decent degree for say working in a Zoological institution, possibly working with local authorities and such. But then again you also study ecology, biodiversity etc. Personally I might go down the masters route and do entomology. If not I'd personally be interested in working for the council managing PSL licences, DWA licences etc. Or working at an airport dealing with import and export of animals. I think this degree is quite broad to be honest. We did have have a discussion on more exact job prospects but my mind is blank, it does say somewhere in the degree pack. I'm only in year one mind, and so I'd probably be better able to explain what the degree seems applicable to when I'm a little further on.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

joeyboy said:


> honestly it's quite a generalised degree. Some modules are quite applied(like exotic animal management) and so I think it's a decent degree for say working in a Zoological institution, possibly working with local authorities and such. But then again you also study ecology, biodiversity etc. Personally I might go down the masters route and do entomology. If not I'd personally be interested in working for the council managing PSL licences, DWA licences etc. Or working at an airport dealing with import and export of animals. I think this degree is quite broad to be honest. We did have have a discussion on more exact job prospects but my mind is blank, it does say somewhere in the degree pack. I'm only in year one mind, and so I'd probably be better able to explain what the degree seems applicable to when I'm a little further on.


 thanks for reply


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

joeyboy said:


> where are you based then? I think us biology/zoology students at trent go to Bristol zoo or Dublin in year 2, next year for me.
> 
> Anyway OP I'm doing Zoology here, well it's called Zoo biology at trent but UCAS wise it has the same course code as Zoology does at other Unis. Obviously this is an *ex poly* and I'd say the course is a little more applied then you might get at say Nottingham, which I really didn't like the look of as year two was very heavy on computer software. Trent offers Animal Biology and Zoo biology. The courses are very similiar you share the majority of lectures together throughout the three years of study. However on the couple of modules you don't share Animal Biology focuses on native species and quite a bit on rural aspects like farming, dog breeding, horses etc. Where as zoo biology focuses on exotic animals in their habitats and their care in captivity.(along with things like CITES. Zoo biology does CITES, looks at illegal wildlife smuggling, poaching etc, animal does UK legislation like dangerous dogs, animal welfare act etc).


 sorry i got lost reading it, whats ex poly? so is zoo biology classed as zoology? does it have the same specific modules as zoology? how long's the course? could i go into a univeristy doing a 4 year course (3 year degree, then 1 year masters in herpetolgy or something?)


Btw thanks everyone: (i know obviously it isn't as easy as it sounds) I've been thinking of doing a biology degree, then a masters in zoology in the same 4 year course thingy? is that possible, does this make any sense to anybody? :L 

or i was thinking of just going straight into a zoology/ecology degree then get a masters... and maybe one day when i'm older ill get a PhD in herpetology or something more specific? 


sorry if this just sounds really confusing, but is any of this even possible?(4 year course with 3 year degree and last year is a masters) ?


thanks


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Spencer95 said:


> sorry i got lost reading it, whats ex poly? so is zoo biology classed as zoology? does it have the same specific modules as zoology? how long's the course? could i go into a univeristy doing a 4 year course (3 year degree, then 1 year masters in herpetolgy or something?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ex poly just means ex polytechnic, type of Uni back in the day. Basically you have the Russell group Unis(which are the top unis with higher entry requirements for most courses) and then ex-polys which generally have lower requirements, Russell group Unis are more prestigious. Nottingham is in the Russell group but I didn't like their modules so picked trent. (good job really I didn't quite get the A-levels they wanted as my Chemistry let me down...shouldn't have taken that haha.)

Modules for Zoology won't be identical for every University, they'll bias a little to what they do research in and such. For example Nottinghams does a lot of genetics and computer software(year 2), but say Sheffield will have slightly different modules. The main idea of the course in that you're studying animal biology will be the same but what you focus on may be different, some might throw in ecology modules for example, but might not as much. This course has very different modules then Nottinghams Zoology, but again unis can be different from each other so you'd want to read their course prospectus when you're doing A-levels and looking at different Unis, see what you like the sound of. 

The course is three years as are all Bsc(hons) degrees(standard ones you do), though all are four years in Scotland it's the same degree you come out with. Masters would be totally seperate, you'd apply for a Masters degree after you've gotten the Honours degree, it would likely be at another University as Masters in subjects generally aren't as widespread and only a few Unis will do them. For example I might do a masters in entomology, the only place offering this in the UK is Imperial College London as far as I'm aware. 

I'm not actually sure there is a Masters degree available in Herpetology. You might be able to do something herpetologically related in your dissertation on your Zoology/Biology degree but I believe people who do research and conversation with reptiles probably go into it with a more general qualification such as a zoology degree, ecology degree etc.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

I was going to say take up diving as a hobby. If you learn something like this it is great fun, if you go far enough you can teach it and work in field. It could be useful in zoology and set you ahead of others. Keeping herp I think helps a lot. I've seen loads do there Uni course and then go no where with it, (and many have never even kept a herp!), so volunteer, always be keen and helpful as it can often be who you know that gets you that job!


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the great comments everyone, they have been really useful for me and to others


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## Spencer95 (Feb 20, 2010)

also does anybody know what a levels or other things i should take or you reccomend for me to get into uni? because i heard two sciences at a levels are highly reccomended, however, I don't know if i'll be able to cope with chemistry AND biology in a-levels as i hear the step up from gcse's to a-levels is huge. Although i am getting high grades in science in gcse's i was just wondering what over options are avalible, just incase?

thanks


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Go onto the UCAS website and type in the course and/or university you have in mind. This will tell you the GCSE and also the A Level requirements.

Yes, it is a big step up from one to the other!


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

> I'm not actually sure there is a Masters degree available in Herpetology.


The Free University of Brussels has just introduced a 2 year MSc in herpetology: www.herpetology.be. As far as I am aware this is the only taught masters in herpetology in europe, but obviously there is plenty of opportunity to specialise in research degrees. A number of UK universities have researchers actively involved in herp studies; Bangor, Oxford, Salford, Manchester, Institute of Zoology and I am sure there are more.

With regards to A level choices, it depends where you want to go really. The higher ranking universities will probably want biology, chemistry and at least one other relevant subject. As has been said, a look at the UCAS website is your best bet, have a look and try and figure out where you want to go. The courses at different universities will probably have similar broad themes, but individual modules are likely to be very different.

David.


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