# My Betta tank



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

48 litre interpet 'fish pod'. Contains 4 females, one male, plus 1 red clawed crab and an apple snail. Plain back background and black substrate to show of Rufus's colour.
YouTube - betta.wmv


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

The amount of chasing going on and the shredded fins of the male betta, is the reason why it is never a good idea to keep a male with females:devil:

There is loads of info on bettas available and a massive clue is in their common name. I cannot condone the keeping of bettas in this way, as they will be in a state of permanent stress leading to illness and disease.

Whilst there will be people who say they have done it, I would not want to put my fish at that level of risk. When a betta attacks, its fast and it can inflict serious damage within seconds. Torn fins, missing scales and eyes being ripped out are all possibility, and quite frankly it is absolutely unneccessary to take risks which may result in the death of the fish.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

andy007 said:


> The amount of chasing going on and the shredded fins of the male betta, is the reason why it is never a good idea to keep a male with females:devil:
> 
> There is loads of info on bettas available and a massive clue is in their common name. I cannot condone the keeping of bettas in this way, as they will be in a state of permanent stress leading to illness and disease.
> 
> Whilst there will be people who say they have done it, I would not want to put my fish at that level of risk. When a betta attacks, its fast and it can inflict serious damage within seconds. Torn fins, missing scales and eyes being ripped out are all possibility, and quite frankly it is absolutely unneccessary to take risks which may result in the death of the fish.


There is no chasing going on. I had only just put food in for them and they were chasing the micro pellets.Odd how you see a grainy video and at once diagnose a problem which doesn't exist:bash: Rufu's fins were worse when I got him a month ago. He'd been in a tank wirth neon testras which were plaguing him. I'm not really bothered about what you 'condone' or not. The last Rufus lived for 5 years in a community tank with several females and I have photos of him with immaculate finnage.I have never had a male attack females, nor females attack a male. I wouldn't keep 2 males together for obvious reasons.
So I guess he couldn't have been all that stressed, nor ill could he?
I have kept bettas for the last 35 years in community tanks and all have lived for at least 3 years, with never eyes taken out, no scales missing, no damage at all. So tell me what I'm doing wrong again to have them live that long.:bash:
The problem with many so called 'experts' is that they concentrate on one thing (like show bettas with unusual colours and fins) and have done so for a relatively short time but think they know it all, whereas people like me have kept normal pet shop ones in community situations for decades, doing it 'all wrong' by their standards, yet for all that, my fish live very long and healthy lives.
You may have superior bettas to my bog standard pet shop ones but I wonder if yours live for 5 years?
Ands actually, when a betta attacks it isn't fast at all. There is much gill flaring and displaying before an actual attack occurs. I'm surprised you wouldn't know this since you are a betta 'expert'.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Within a few seconds of the video starting you can clearly see a betta chasing a betta, not a betta chasing a pellet.

Whether a betta is a PK, a VT or HM, makes no difference to being superior or bog standard....mute argument really. They are all the same inside with different fins.

I aint gonna get into an argument with you as you obviously know everything already. 

If like to keep them that way thats up to you, but I dont have to agree. You put the video on an open forum, so expect replies that you dont want to hear.

And dont even try and imply anything about me and how experienced i am with bettas and fish, as you have no idea about my history and experience. I replied without being personal, or implying remarks about people, so there was absolutely no reason for you to go on the attack. Generally people who respond as you have done do so because they dont like criticism!

I wont bother next time.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Before you make judgements about our so called superior bettas, perhaps you should look at our gallery page which includes a PK (shop bought), 3 VTs (shop bought).

I've been keeping Betta for the last 26 years but only got into breeding them a few years ago. Going on our experience of keeping many of them, we have seen the damage that can be done in a very short space of time.

Perhaps you'd like us to remove your membership from our forum if that's how you feel about us :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

andy007 said:


> Within a few seconds of the video starting you can clearly see a betta chasing a betta, not a betta chasing a pellet.
> 
> Whether a betta is a PK, a VT or HM, makes no difference to being superior or bog standard....mute argument really. They are all the same inside with different fins.
> 
> ...


DArn right I don't like your criticism since you seemed to assume I was a numpty who'd never kept fish before and didn't know what I was doing. You thought you saw something which wasn't actually happening and you assumed that Rufus's fins were shredded because I was a bad fish keeper. 
If criticism is fair, I have no problem with it, but when it is unfair as it was here then no, I won't accept it. I have no idea how experienced you are. You probably know a lot about breeding bettas.
I note you have made no comment about how long my bettas have lived in the 35 years I've kept them. This is the first time I've had a purely betta tank.This one has been set up for 8 weeks now.I think that if Rufus was getting bullied as you stated definatively, for the last 8 weeks, his fins would be in a shocking state don't you?
You were the one who dived in to attack, without asking any questions about how long I'd had the set up, whether I noticed bullying etc. I can assure you that there is no harrassing going on at all and will happily do another video tomorrow to show you if it makes you any happier.
Please don't assume that because I don't post here very often and because I'm not active on any fish forums, that I'm a moron who has only kept fish for a couple of months.Try over 3 decades. 3 decades of keeping fish which live long lives and are very healthy. So how long did you say your bettas live?


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Toys out of pram come to mind. You're very quick to turn on people that don't agree with your methods and don't appear to have an open mind to how other people do things.

You don't like being criticised and yet you seem to do the same rather alot on here :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Sweetcorn said:


> Before you make judgements about our so called superior bettas, perhaps you should look at our gallery page which includes a PK (shop bought), 3 VTs (shop bought)


judgements? It wasn't me making judgements.I'm glad you are proud of your bettas. I'm proud of mine. I'm not into special ones. When one Rufus dies, I go out and buy another plain deep red one. In 3 decades of keeping them, 90% of them have been deep red.



> I've been keeping Betta for the last 26 years but only got into breeding them a few years ago. Going on our experience of keeping many of them, we have seen the damage that can be done in a very short space of time.


 So you are admitting to having bettas get damaged in your tanks? Well in over 30 years keeping them I have never once had any of them damaged. Yet you tell me I'm the one doing it all wrong?:whistling2:



> Perhaps you'd like us to remove your membership from our forum if that's how you feel about us :whistling2:


 Feel free to remove me. I joined in the hope of finding out about the fancier ones just as a point of interest, but taking you both as an example of the betta community , I'd rather not bother. I'll keep my bettas how they are kept, and carry on doing it all wrong according to you. Rather keep them all wrong and have them live healthy lives for 5 years, than do it according to your rules and have them live shorter, less enriched and natural lives.
So sorry I refuse to conform to your ideals, and bow down to your superior knowledge and abase myself before you because you have threatened to take me off your forum for daring to disagree with you.
Take me off please. I can't stand petty and spiteful people who think they are little gods.
Apart from that, anyone think my fish are pretty?:whistling2:
Come on now, don't be afraid of the betta facists, they can't bite you and you don't have to take their every word as the gospel you know :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Sweetcorn said:


> Toys out of pram come to mind. You're very quick to turn on people that don't agree with your methods and don't appear to have an open mind to how other people do things.
> 
> You don't like being criticised and yet you seem to do the same rather alot on here :whistling2:


I criticise where criticism is fair. You lot criticise without even being able to see the fish properly or knowing anything about the tank. Then you all pile in and comment and have digs. That's bullying isn't it? I'd rather criticise truthfully, and accept fair criticism, than make things up,and bully someone. Never liked bullies at school and don't like them as adults either.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

We've had males jump divided tanks in the past and have seen how quickly they can damage each other.

We've also seen agression in fry as young as 4 weeks old.

Please don't turn this into a spiteful name calling venture. Any help or advice we give to people is done out of our genuine concern for these beautiful fish.

FYI....I have removed you. We pride ourselves in the fact that we have a very friendly forum with lovely members and as such would like to keep it that way.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Pot, kettle Fenwoman? :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Sweetcorn said:


> We've had males jump divided tanks in the past and have seen how quickly they can damage each other.
> 
> We've also seen agression in fry as young as 4 weeks old.
> 
> ...


 And there you have it folks. Don't join the betta forum or they'll kick you off if you disagree with them or protest at their wild accusations about your own bettas.Orwellian democracy at it's best.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

Not at all. We just don't want nasty people as members....end of!!!!!

And as you think of us as facists then why would you still want to remain a member.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> DArn right I don't like your criticism since you seemed to assume I was a numpty who'd never kept fish before and didn't know what I was doing.


Right, show me where i said you were a numpty? That was the same advice i woud give anyone.



fenwoman said:


> You thought you saw something which wasn't actually happening and you assumed that Rufus's fins were shredded because I was a bad fish keeper.


I say again, show where i said you were a bad fish keeper? I know of many people who have had a male with females for a tad longer than just 8 weeks, and they say "they're ok no fighting", then all hell breaks lose. So dont assume everything will be fine forever



fenwoman said:


> If criticism is fair, I have no problem with it, but when it is unfair as it was here then no, I won't accept it. I have no idea how experienced you are.


Advice isn't criticism. You never accept it anywhere on the board.



fenwoman said:


> You probably know a lot about breeding bettas.


I bet i do, so what? Whenever i choose to get an animal/fish I research first to ensure that I dont put them in stressful situations.



fenwoman said:


> I note you have made no comment about how long my bettas have lived in the 35 years I've kept them. This is the first time I've had a purely betta tank.This one has been set up for 8 weeks now.I think that if Rufus was getting bullied as you stated definatively, for the last 8 weeks, his fins would be in a shocking state don't you?


As before 8 weeks is no time. What the heck does 35 years experience count for when you openly admit you are wrong on your other thread? 



fenwoman said:


> You were the one who dived in to attack, without asking any questions about how long I'd had the set up, whether I noticed bullying etc. I can assure you that there is no harrassing going on at all and will happily do another video tomorrow to show you if it makes you any happier.


Thats where my experience comes in, but then you dont have to be experience to notice the black edging to the males torn fins, which could (note the word "could") indicate fin rot due to being shredded. I'd rather not watch another single video you post TBH



fenwoman said:


> Please don't assume that because I don't post here very often and because I'm not active on any fish forums, that I'm a moron who has only kept fish for a couple of months.Try over 3 decades. 3 decades of keeping fish which live long lives and are very healthy. So how long did you say your bettas live?


Well, over 3 decades you sure haven't learned anything. I could say my bettas lived for 10 years, just as you can say yours live 5 years. Means naf all really as people can say what they want. Bettas, as with any fish, can live for a varying amount of time. Just because you say you had one for 5 years, doesn't mean this one will? Plus VT's and PK's have a longer life expectancy than HM's etc etc....Ours, 2-5 years depending on genetics and whether they have been bred with as breeding can reduce lifespan. 

You sure are very very over defensive. But on the other hand look at the way you launched a severe attack on the people who had those tortoises stolen the other day, and did you know the facts? No you didn't. So glass houses and all that:whistling2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

andy007 said:


> Right, show me where i said you were a numpty? That was the same advice i woud give anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Never a truer word spoken!


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> And there you have it folks. Don't join the betta forum or they'll kick you off if you disagree with them or protest at their wild accusations about your own bettas.Orwellian democracy at it's best.


You verbally abused us.......i take offence to being called a Fascist. I'd rather not have people that launch verbal attacks like that on my forum. Everyone on there discusses there differences rather than calling each other names. If you bothered to read anything on there you would have seen that members keep their bettas in all sorts of ways. And if you looked further you would have seen the instances of keeping males and females together, and then read about the DEATH of some of them. 

But then, what do i know:whistling2:


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Feel free to remove me. I joined in the hope of finding out about the fancier ones just as a point of interest, but taking you both as an example of the betta community , I'd rather not bother. I'll keep my bettas how they are kept, and carry on doing it all wrong according to you. Rather keep them all wrong and have them live healthy lives for 5 years, than do it according to your rules and have them live shorter, less enriched and natural lives.
> So sorry I refuse to conform to your ideals, and bow down to your superior knowledge
> Take me off please. I can't stand petty and spiteful people who think they are little gods.
> Apart from that, anyone think my fish are pretty?:whistling2:
> Come on now, don't be afraid of the betta facists, they can't bite you and you don't have to take their every word as the gospel you know :lol2:



Oh poor me........I think you'll find every single betta forum would have the same advice and warnings for you about keeping them that way, NOT JUST US!!!! 
Dont start defaming me in public, when we run one of the busiest betta forums registered in the UK today. We didn't get that by acting like "gods", and we dont do it for money. We do it because we care. And if we were so so bad, would we have been the first Betta site to receive a recommended reading award for our forum and website?

I suggest you re-read my initial post. I gave my honest opinion and advice, but you obviously cant take that advice. If you cant take it, dont post it.


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## Sweetcorn (Aug 2, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> The last Rufus lived for 5 years in a community tank with several females and I have photos of him with immaculate finnage.I have never had a male attack females, nor females attack a male. g and healthy lives.
> You may have superior bettas to my bog standard pet shop ones but I wonder if yours live for 5 years?


Yes but he didn't actually live for 5 years did he. According to this thread he died in sept 08 and you only bought him in Jan 07. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/fish-keeping/181456-rip-rufus.html


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Possibly just cant see in the video,but the Red Crabs are part terrestrial-so need a land area,and also from brackish water.Thats advice not critisicsm,most shops dont tell you that when you buy them.


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## gravitation (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm not going to read through every comment so excuse me if i repeat something that has already been said.

I used to keep and breed quality bettas and i had quite a few setups going. One of the tanks i kept was a 215L tank housing around fourteen females, having that much space and that many females worked incredibly well for me, they were able to establish a good pecking order with plenty of areas to hide, here's a picture.










I'm all for female community tanks, my own personal experience tells me they can work well if gone about correctly especially when introduced as young fish. I wouldn't recommend keeping your male in with your girls permanently, i'm not sure how long he has been living in there but as someone has already mentioned nipped fins and chasing stress doesn't end well, especially if they are getting no rest from eachother which they won't be living in the same tank.

You really should seperate him from the girls, i know it looks nice but it's in the best interest of your little friend. I would suggest having six females in your 48L and another seperate tank for your male.


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## mikef (Sep 3, 2009)

nice one fenwoman, just another fine example of just how NOT TO DO IT :censor:


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