# Oxybelis/Leptophis venom



## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

hi there

as some of you may know i have been trying to track down Oxybelis fulgidis and Leptophis ahaetulla for a while know. i have been successful, all i need to do now is get over to houten, and seeing as i cant drive that is more difficult than it sounds!

my question is, does anyone know the venom characteristics of these species. i know that leptophis has an extremely poor venom delivery system, and the venom is not meant to be especially potent - i know people that have been bitten by the species, with symptoms being pain, nausea and localised swellig for around 8 hours. does anyone have anymore information on them, as it is proving as hard to find as the snake itself

likewise Oxybelis fulgidis, though this is said to be significantly more potent than many rear fanged snakes. i have seen a LTC specimen in Belize strike at, and hold a large rat for around 5 seconds. upon release the rat ran to the corner of the vivarium, but within about 10 seconds started to show signs of envenomation. it had collapsed, and been paralysed by about 1 minute. this to me would indicate that their venom is extremely potent. i do not know of anyone that has ben bitten by them, so i would guess there are no documented bites. does anyone have any information on their venom.

i will of course be treating the latter as a venomous snake, and so will be using full venomous procedure.

Alex


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## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

I know someone who might be able to help you out here. I can ask for you the next time i see him which should be tomorrow when he's working.


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## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

I ve just spoken to my mate over the phone.

Leptophis he said there was a case in belize which caused numbness and blistering to a patient and it lasted several hours.

Oxybelis .

has resulted in itching and redness swelling and blister formations but there is one record of a fatal bite in a horse. He admits though that although the defensive attacks from these snakes is impresive they can deliver bites which cause no ill effects.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

thanks. I think i know the individual from belize that documented that bite. he told me the story in person, so it seems that they are only mildly venomous.

the oxybelis is an interesting one. if the venom has the ability to kill a horse, then it will have the ability to also kill a human. only poosibility is misidentification, though they are a distinctive species. nevertheless you have confirmed my suspicions, and oxybelis is definitely the dangerous one, deserves respect! out of interest who is your mate?

anyone else got any information


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

you must be massochistic.

They are some funny feeders to take on at the same time!


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## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

His name is shaun he actually works at wharf reptiles part time while at uni. But he's into snake toxicology etc and latin american herpetology as well as the rest of the world. If you can catch him at work one day by phoning them that would be good for ya.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Mason said:


> you must be massochistic.
> 
> They are some funny feeders to take on at the same time!


yea, indeed they can be funny feeders, especially the leps. 

i wouldnt describe myself as masochistic - im not planning on getting bitten, and i have handled (albeit with snake hooks/pins/grabs/etc) more dangerous snakes than these. they are a challenge, they are truly stunning snakes, and having seen, handled wild specimens and been taught on their captive husbandry both in costa rica and belize, i feel it is a challenge i could succeed in. 

thanks for all the help vikki_john - much appreciated

Alex


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## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

Was you looking for info on more of a molecular level. Enzymes etc ?

That type of stuff baffles me so didn't ask him to go into depth.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

initially just looking into the effects of envenomation. at a later stage i will look more closely into venom characteristics


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

the comment about mascochism was in regard to them beeing funny feeders not venomous. Hours of fun.


I can get you cheap house geckos if you need them :lol:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

cheap house geckos may be useful, though anolesare preferred by them. got any green or brown anoles?


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

i can ask.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Mason said:


> i can ask.


awesome

cheapest i can find is about £6 - which is quite pricey if thats 2 a week!


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## madman2 (Mar 11, 2008)

to be honest i dont know anything about these i would just like to say they are increadiable snakes!!! also you know its Oxybelis fulgidus not Oxybelis fulgidis??? that may help you but im sure it was just a typo!!! i hope you sucseed in these and you never know i maybe wanting some in a few years time good luck to you!!!!


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

yes indeed, fulgidus - i have been typing fulgidis forever without realising my mistake - will be hard to change now!


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

anyone else know anything of their venom. i am now going to go ahead with the purchase, so will have some fairly soon.

Alex


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## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

Its unlikley that you will find loads of info from internet resources. I can e mail my mate for you for more info on venom characteristics if you want.


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## RoninUK (Aug 30, 2007)

carpy said:


> anyone else know anything of their venom. i am now going to go ahead with the purchase, so will have some fairly soon.
> 
> Alex


I can't comment on the venom because I was never bitten but the Leptophis I had was seemed very reluctant to bite at all. It would (very rarely) go into an impressive threat display - gaping the mouth into a bell shape and displaying a very dark, almost black lining which, I believe, is caused by forcing blood into the membranes lining the mouth but never followed it up with a strike. Mind you I never gave it a reason to.

One way to reduce the feeding costs is to tie a rat pup or two onto the initial feeder lizard and they will usually swallow the lot once they have started. 

Mine fed best when fed at night after a thorough misting of the tank.

Good luck with them - photos do not really pick up the metallic sheen they have on their scales - absolutely stunning snakes.

Mark


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a bloke on reptileclassifieds who has both of these available! Just saw the advert.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

hi thanks - that is actually me!


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