# White's tree frog colouration



## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

I own a white's tree frog and he is mainily darker but sometimes he does go lighter green. He oftern goes lighter green when i am cleaning him out, i asume that this means that they are stressed. I wanted to know if they skin colour is meant to mean anything about how they are feeling or if changes due to their environment. And what colours generally mean what, or if its down to the frog what colours means what.


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## TheToad888 (Dec 18, 2008)

Hello again 
The green is always a happy/unstressed & natural colour I thought. Whenever they were too cold etc. they were brown. I think it's their natural colour as well.


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

So would they change to the oposite colour they normally sit at when they are stressed or something


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## retrophile (Jul 3, 2011)

Hannah, if you post a picture here it would probably allow people to give you advice.

I have 2 whites, only had them a month or so - definitely not an expert but I could compare to mine if you could provide a photo. 

Steph


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

there are photos of him on my profile if anyone wanted to look at him, it wasnt a post about him it was more for finding out more about white's in general as my white's seems fine he just goes bright green when i clean him out.


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## Jez&Kayla (Nov 27, 2011)

sorry to pop in and ask a question, but i have 2 african big eyed tree frogs and i noticed when i came in from work they both looked a shade lighter

maybe the same thing?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm going to disagree.

White's tree frogs often turn brown in response to light, probably as a protection against the sun in the wild. At night they turn greener. They do vary colour by mood as well, but unless your frog is showing other signs of stress, I wouldn't worry too much.

I would however ask a big question, why are you cleaning them out? Get yerself a natural substrate in there, seeded with springtails and dwarf woodlice. No more cleaning out needed, especially if you pop in a couple of easy to grow plants like pothos, anthurium scandens etc. The less you mess with your frogs, the better for them.

Ade


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

I clean him out once a month, i use eco earth which i have read is fine for them, i do not know any place that sells springtails and/or dwarf woodlice. I am happy cleaning him out + it gives me a chance to change the setup around and clean the plants and stuff. There is a pic of his setup on my profile in the viv album.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

You're happy, he's not. Sorry Hannah, but this isn't about what you like doing, and every time you change his setup around etc, you're stressing out your frog quite a lot.

Eco-earth is fine so long as it doesn't get too wet (I use it myself) and can easily be seeded just the same. You can buy springtails from either dartfrog.co.uk or thelivefoodwarehouse.co.uk, dwarf woodlice you can buy from dartfrog.co.uk.

Frogs don't much like been handled, and they certainly don't like change very much.

Ade


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

I havent actually changed his setup as yet, i have brought some new branches for him to sit on as he has got bigger and the vines will eventually be a bit small, and whites are the most handable frog going, i handled them when i did my qulification in animal managment and also have been told that they like being handled by a number of different people and read in a number of different places, i dont handle him much however few times a month (i much prefer watching him and watching him feed). I would however want to make small changes to his environment for enrichment and also because in the wild there enrironment would be changing naturally. And as we speek he has come right up to the glass to see me soo cute


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

There is NO SUCH THING as a handleable frog. Their skins are EXTREMELY sensitive to all those lovely oils and chemicals in your skin. I don't care who told you they like been handled, what they like is the feeling of warmth from your hands. However, they don't have the intelligence etc to realise that the chemicals in your skin are harming them. Yes they are very very bold and friendly creatures, but I can tell you now that by regularly handling him you ARE shortening his life.

As to changes in their natural environment, their natural environment is not a 45cm cube Exo-Terra (guessing the size from the pic in your album). Small changes in a tiny habitat have a far bigger impact than big changes in a HUGE habitat.

If you don't want to change your habits, and are going to insist on stating that 'everybody' has told you it's fine, then all I can say is enjoy your fella whilst you have him, as it wont be for the the 10-15 years these frogs can reach with ease when kept properly.

Ade


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I've had my whites for a couple years now and mine are often changing colour, sometimes one is bright green and the other is brown so never really thought it was related to heat or light as they are in the same enclosure. 

I don't really clean mine out either tbh, just remove any poops or dead crickets when needed and change the water.

I also studied animal management :2thumb: go us!


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

We had a white's at college which was between 10 to 12 years old that was handled at least weekly, if not every other day. Im not saying its a handleable frog, just that it can tolerate it when it needs to, which is when his viv is cleaned (once a month) and to check him over, which is usually when he's cleaned. When handling him our hands are clean (not cleaned using soaps etc, just water clean), and then kept moist with declorinated water, and have been told springtails and woodlice being active in the enclosed space all the time, would be an unneccesary stress.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Told by a moron, seriously. Try telling that to the hoards of keepers using live substrates.....

Ade


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

HannahM said:


> We had a white's at college which was between 10 to 12 years old that was handled at least weekly, if not every other day. Im not saying its a handleable frog, just that it can tolerate it when it needs to, which is when his viv is cleaned (once a month) and to check him over, which is usually when he's cleaned. When handling him our hands are clean (not cleaned using soaps etc, just water clean), and then kept moist with declorinated water, and have been told springtails and woodlice being active in the enclosed space all the time, would be an unneccesary stress.


Wait? What? Stress? That means that my Phyllobates Terribils are under an immense amount of stress, due to the large microfauna population that they don't eat.

That was sarcasm btw.


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

I was told it COULD cause stress, not WILL. So i've heard something different to what you have and you have a live substrate, i dont, means i have to clean him out once a month, the frog is fine and seems to be happy, did it require a sarcastic and rude comment like that


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

If your frog is fine and seems to be happy, why the posts asking for advice? I'm not been sarcastic, I'm been completely serious.

Me, if I were you I would be questioning just how useful a source of information this person or people telling you these things are. They're doing a good job of ignoring evidence.

Ade


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

Several amphibian owners, breeders, books and the internet, none of these have said to use live substrate or that its neccesary, and the amount of people i know or have had advice or read online that dont have live substrates outweigh the people who do. Im not saying its wrong to have live substrate because you clearly have success with it, but just pointing out i dont think its needed for white's tree frogs, (although it did come up more with pygmy chameleon care).

And in regard to asking advice, i originally asked on two seperate threads about colouration changes and shedding in white's tree frogs, just general questions to observations i've made, i didnt question the health of my frog.


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

P.s. Ade, i wasn't saying your comments were sarcastic.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Well Hannah, you clearly know more than absolutely everybody on here, even those with more experience than yourself, so I'm just not going to bother trying to help you any more as you clearly know so much.

I didn't say you'd said I was been sarcastic, I merely pointed out that my last post was not intended to be sarcastic. However I can really see why somebody might become sarcastic with you.

Best of luck.

Ade


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

HannahM said:


> Several amphibian owners, breeders, books and the internet, none of these have said to use live substrate or that its neccesary, and the amount of people i know or have had advice or read online that dont have live substrates outweigh the people who do. Im not saying its wrong to have live substrate because you clearly have success with it, but just pointing out i dont think its needed for white's tree frogs, (although it did come up more with pygmy chameleon care).
> 
> And in regard to asking advice, i originally asked on two seperate threads about colouration changes and shedding in white's tree frogs, just general questions to observations i've made, i didnt question the health of my frog.


Your viv doesnt have to have a live substrate but what Ade and other people are telling you is its benificial for the frogs, it means that you dont have to clean them out every month and handle them which really does stress any amphibian out. More and more people have started using live substrate in there vivs, its been used in dartfrog vivs for years as these are pretty much impossible to clean out. As for coursing the frogs stress thats rubbish we are not talking about tipping loads of tubs of crickets in your viv that will run all over the frogs all night, most of these are tiny minute insects that frogs like whites wouldnt even know were in there.
As for colour change in your whites ive had them all sorts of colours kept together so i believe its just down to the frogs mood and ive never had any suffer from being brown. They will shed there skin when needed more as younsters as they grow quicker.
Its up to you what advice you take but people on here are only trying to help

Richie


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

HannahM said:


> I was told it COULD cause stress, not WILL. So i've heard something different to what you have and you have a live substrate, i dont, means i have to clean him out once a month, the frog is fine and seems to be happy, did it require a sarcastic and rude comment like that


Check out Dendroboard / Dendroworld for literally hundreds of owners who will tell you the same. Live substrates do not stress the frogs out. After all, what do you think is in the substrate in the rainforest? Unicorns? .

P.s - It wasn't rude, it was just wit of the lowest form.


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

I have never once said anyone was wrong, if anything i have been told that what i am doing is wrong. I know what i do is fine as many other white's owners do exactly what i do and having a live substrate is also fine as some white's owners do this and is fine as you all have told me. I was only saying that the only people i have ever hurd of using a live substrate are the people who have commented on this post. I also only stated that i hurd that live substrates could be stressfull to an animal, i never said this was correct (however in the wild the animal have a larger space to get away from the live substrate if it was irratating) so i can see how someone could think it would stress a amphibian or a reptile out. I have listerned to all the advice even if this has nothing to do with what i posted in the thread (white's tree frog colouration).


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## HannahM (Aug 19, 2011)

Also i can see how some animals have been stressed out by having a live substrate because the owners have more than likley put to many of the bugs in the viv and it has become over run with them (i asume they will breed and mutiply?) I may be incorrect with this.


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## detail3r (Jul 13, 2010)

HannahM said:


> Also i can see how some animals have been stressed out by having a live substrate because the owners have more than likley put to many of the bugs in the viv and it has become over run with them (i asume they will breed and mutiply?) I may be incorrect with this.


The sheer amount of arthropods and isopods present in the rainforest will dwarf the limited biomass present in your vivariums substrate.


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