# Another fake rock build - realistic attempt



## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Hi guys

Inspired by Thrasops thread, I raided the spare contiboard offcuts and the kingspan pile and started a little project!



Started with the build. I wanted this to be a taller viv to allow for proper use of the vertical as well as horizontal temperature gradient.


The beauty of building the viv yourself means you can leave off things like lids and front panels to ease access!
(Exoterra hide for scale)










Then started with the kingspan.









I immediately decided that the 'carve the rocks separately and stick them in' look wasn't what I was after. I've used this method before (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/355117-another-fake-rock-background-build.html) and I didn't want the 'stone wall' look.

So, I binned the individually carved rocks and started building up a rock face instead....



















Then I remembered the vents and figured they needed to go in sooner rather than later...





























As I'd already carved a large offcut, I integrated that into the rock face


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Then it was just a case of fill in and carry on carving (and making a hell of a mess!)



















extra depth was created by sticking on extra bits of kingspan using adhesive and chopped up wooden skewers...










'seams' between pieces were smoothed and filled 











until I had a shape I was happy with


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Time to grout (and hoover!)....

I used grey 'floor and tile' grout powder from Wickes (as I happened to have half a bag in the cupboard!) and mixed it with black emulsion, PVA and water.




















After four layers of grout, I started on the painting.

Firstly the 'Jet black matt emulsion'











As you can see, Ive gone for a good 'depth' of rock so it almost isn't a 'background' but more of a whole viv rock work piece.











More to follow as I do the next stages


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Awesome that mate. Similar to mine with the depth, I wanted mine to look like part of th viv too, just like this. Kingspans the way forward ey? What sealant did you use to stick the kingspan together and how did it work? I found sticks like didn't dry very well in between the sheets of kingspan.


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## fuzzzzbuzzzz (Apr 11, 2010)

The viv is awesome, thankyou for sharing


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Just put on another coat of black as I'd missed a little bit.

Once its dry then I'll start on the dry brushing.....

more updates (with pics next time!) soon!


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

I love the design  only thing I dont like is the depth of it, Just seems like a waste of usable space to me. Apart from that it looks great though, I look forward to seeing it painted up


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

AWESOME!

This looks cool, I normally just use the expanding foam I love the BTS viv too, he looks very happy in there, heck even I would live in there:2thumb:

So have you decided what is going in this one?
Just as an observation too, I noticed those books and dvds were all herp related in some way, that does not suprise me lmao.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Love it! Looking forward to seeing how it progresses, and what goes in it! :no1:

Francis


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

Bothrops, that is trully inspirational. Well done and thanks mate.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

OrigamiB said:


> I love the design  only thing I dont like is the depth of it, Just seems like a waste of usable space to me. Apart from that it looks great though, I look forward to seeing it painted up



I thought the same when I saw the pic from the top (it doesn't look that 'full' in reality)...but then I thought a bit more...

Firstly, most of the depth at the top is due to the overhang, and a lot of caves and ledges are built in. Also, when you think 'useable space' the reality of a 'standard viv is that 90% of the space isn't 'useable' at all and is mostly empty air spaces......a lot more of this viv is actually useable than most others!




Salazare Slytherin said:


> AWESOME!
> 
> This looks cool, I normally just use the expanding foam I love the BTS viv too, he looks very happy in there, heck even I would live in there:2thumb:
> 
> ...


It would be rude to use 'normal' books! :lol2:




Thrasops said:


> Love it! Looking forward to seeing how it progresses, and what goes in it! :no1:
> 
> Francis



I'll let you into a little secret. Due to the timing of your inspiration thread, and the end of my summer holidays looming, I kinda rushed into the build.

Although I had an idea of what I was aiming for, I hadn't actually decided 100% on a species :blush:.

It's sooooo wrong and completely rubbish as a herpetoculturist...I feel like a noobie posting 'I've got a 3 foot viv from a mate..what should I keep?!'

I had in my head that I was aiming for temperate rock/moss/grass type thing along these lines:






































but the viv has taken on a bit of a mind of its own (I was originally going to integrate some logs/roots/branches, but got carried away with the rock work!)

...and as for its inhabitant(s)? I'm not even sure yet! I do know I don't currently own it/them! (Nothing I currently own would sit right in here).

I'm thinking European small snake species or a small group of lizards......ideas welcome! I don't want to spoilt the effect with large guarded heat lamps and spot bulbs, so I've got a reptile radiator to sit flat on the roof, behind the top fascia, and I was planning on a strip of LEDs for lighting. I could fit a UV strip in, but being so tall, it might be pretty useless.....



Anyway, on with the painting...

Got a black and a white and a small selection of greens to 'natural-up' the greys and to use as lichen/algae/moss growth at the end.










First layer over the solid black is a dark grey (30:70 white to black - with a tiny splash of the dark green). This was plied on quite liberally but I didn't work it too much into the crevices. As each layer of paint goes on, it will get lighter and I will use less and less paint on the brush.



















right, gotta leave that to dry now.

nite nite. :2thumb:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

tomcannon said:


> Awesome that mate. Similar to mine with the depth, I wanted mine to look like part of th viv too, just like this. Kingspans the way forward ey? What sealant did you use to stick the kingspan together and how did it work? I found sticks like didn't dry very well in between the sheets of kingspan.



Sorry mate, missed this!

I used this stuff http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fp45DxFaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg as I just happened to have some lying around. It sticks really well, but its expensive (relatively) and is probably over kill for this particular type of build. I mean, this stuff is designed to adhere even underwater, so bone dry fake rock builds are not really what it's designed for!


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## Nikkeh (Jun 26, 2010)

Looks awesome! 

Is the painting part hard? It looks like it takes so much effort to get it to look that realistic!


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

bothrops said:


> I thought the same when I saw the pic from the top (it doesn't look that 'full' in reality)...but then I thought a bit more...
> 
> Firstly, most of the depth at the top is due to the overhang, and a lot of caves and ledges are built in. Also, when you think 'useable space' the reality of a 'standard viv is that 90% of the space isn't 'useable' at all and is mostly empty air spaces......a lot more of this viv is actually useable than most others!
> 
> ...


Very Nice!

Have you considerd mountain horned dragons, very interesting little tree/bush dwellers, and I find them absaloutely facinating although boring just sitting around all the time they are very easy to keep (I remember on G/R troopers thread you mentioned you haven't kept them yet, I want a pair myself still, I reckon a pair would love it in there.

Other than that I have also been thinking of Japlura splendida (dragon agamas) they areawesome looking little lizards I could picture those in there!.

Either way I look forward to hearing what you decide.:2thumb:


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## WolverineX (Apr 23, 2011)

Great build up! Gonna be superb when its finished! :2thumb:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Nikkeh said:


> Looks awesome!
> 
> Is the painting part hard? It looks like it takes so much effort to get it to look that realistic!


Not at all.

Start very dark grey/black (or dark brown if you're wanting a different finish) and paint it completely with no gaps. Then its just a matter of using lighter and light er colours and, at the same time, using less and less paint on the brush. The deeper areas of the sculpting remain dark and the ridges become the highlights.

The final 'coat' will be almost pure white (maybe slightly off white with a little green) and will be an almost completely dry brush. A tiny dip the the paint, followed by wiping it all off with newspaper, and then, literally whipping it over the top of of the rocks to just give a hint of highlights on only the proudest ridges.

If I can, I'll try and get a video done for the next couple of stages. :2thumb:


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## Nikkeh (Jun 26, 2010)

bothrops said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Start very dark grey/black (or dark brown if you're wanting a different finish) and paint it completely with no gaps. Then its just a matter of using lighter and light er colours and, at the same time, using less and less paint on the brush. The deeper areas of the sculpting remain dark and the ridges become the highlights.
> 
> ...




A vid would be awesome, or even on your next project a pic for every stage of paint going on...Not that i'm trying to take up your time or anything:lol2:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Nikkeh said:


> A vid would be awesome, or even on your next project a pic for every stage of paint going on...Not that i'm trying to take up your time or anything:lol2:




Ok.

Tried to do a vid. Unfortunately, somewhere between downloading the video files from my phone to my dropbox and then uploading them into windows movie maker, both the sound and the images went to pot!

The pictures move slower than the sound and then the images finish much earlier than they should. Therefore, unfortunately, the actual interesting part (i.e. the painting itself) gets cut off (twice!).

Anyway, for what it's worth, this is the third coat

fake rock - YouTube


So, to finish the rock work, back to plain old photos!

So this is where we are at so far. Two coats of paint ; black and then dark grey.












After the stage you have seen in the video it then looked like this. 





















Next a final colour. For this, I added some green to the light grey to make a sort of greenish 'duck egg' shade. This was then added using the previously discussed 'dry brush' technique, this time with barely any paint at all on the brush.


Thinking of heating and avoiding big old ceramic bulbs and guards spoiling the effect, I'm going with a radiator. Thanks to 'Northernboy' I have now obtained a practically brand new reptile radiator and guard.
The good news is that the guarded heating element will actually fit!











Next I started to look into where I would place my 'spare' rock. I was planning on making it a little rocky basking spot poking out from the leaf litter/substrate.






































Please note that the fascia is just for measuring purposes. The actual fascia will be deeper and without measurement scrawls!

Decided I would leave the spare rock 'free floating' rather than fix it so I can move it around as I see fit!


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Dude, that is awesome! 
Great vid too! :no1:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Next stage. Extra furniture.

Firstly I took trip to 'naturalistic viv builders heaven', other wise known as 'My college estate's tree surgery/tree felling log pile'! At this time of the year it looks like this...










And after a hunt I found a good solid beech root stock and a couple of nice green oak branches covered in beautiful lichens. Straight in the back of the car these went!











Once home, I wanted to try and make the rock background a little more 'organic' by adding some algae/lichen.











So,

I took a smaller brush, a RUB lid as a palette and a few greeny/yellowy colours.

Mixing them together using the end of the brush in a dabbing motion gave 'lichen'



















a few different mixes left me with this.












I felt this was a little bright and so I added a little of the original dark grey over the top


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Unfortunately that will be it for the moment. I need to cut a couple of pieces of wood for the top and bottom fascia's, buy the runners and hunt down some decent fake plants.

Hopefully, these things will happen very soon!

Thanks for all the positive comments guys. Much appreciated. :2thumb:


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## WolverineX (Apr 23, 2011)

Wow! Thats some nice painting there mate! :no1:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Ok,

So a few more bits arrived and I've done a bit more work on it!

Firstly I placed the lid on top of the viv and drew aound the rock to give an idea of where I can and can't place the radiator.

Then I turned it over and fixed the radiator and guard in place.

I also attached the LED strips. Really impressed with these, really bright. I know it look like I cut one short, but it is actually three strips, two stuck together and a third single. The double one was too long so I cut it down slightly.










Turned over and with the LEDs on (don't worry about the gap - the fascia isn't yet screwed in, it's just balanced for now!)












Now for a coat of varnish in order to seal the paint and make it water resistant in case I want to use it in the future for more humid loving species.













Then disaster!

Having used the ronseal before on a number of builds I was very surprised when this happened!












:censor::censor::censor:


I initially thought the paint had run into the varnish and spread and that caused the froth. It would be fair to say that at this point I thought it was time to get the black paint out to start over!


Fortunately though, as it dried, it started to 'recover'











Phew!

The varnish does give it a slightly 'smoothed' look that some people wouldn't like on a rock background. It kinda looks more like a resin cast now rather than the raw roughness of the grout and paint, but for this build, I think the ability to clean and lightly spray the background will give me more flexibility and is therefore an acceptable reduction of realism.


Now it's just a second coat of varnish, screw the lid on, order the glass and then plants and substrate.


Then I've got to decide what's going in it!


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

when putting the varnish on if you sprinkle on just a little bit of of sand it takes the shinyness of the varnish away and works quite well


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## ItsExiled (Oct 24, 2011)

Very nice! is there any special paint that you use or is it just ordinary paint? :2thumb:


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

looks great,
as above add a light sprinkle of sand, to reduce the shine or/and use a matt finish spray
Waterproof Clear Matt Varnish Spray Can 250ml Car Auto boat Craft | eBay

just one, light spray,


again looks great



SmexyReptilez said:


> Very nice! is there any special paint that you use or is it just ordinary paint? :2thumb:


acrylics are the best to use


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## veewee (Sep 11, 2009)

That looks fantastic.:no1: well done: victory:


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## sara436 (Jul 2, 2012)

wow i love it!! mine is just a drawing on a piece of paper at the moment  

cant wait to see the finished thing! xx


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## Walshy (Jul 12, 2012)

Very very nice any hints or tips to someone that wants to try this?

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

OK, I think we're there!


Broke out the 'non-branded dremel' to make groove for the LED wires and the rep radiator wire



















Then screwed on the lid












Added runners and decor and moved it to its new home!

























































And pride of place!














Just gotta decide what to put in it now!

:blush::blush::blush:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Walshy said:


> Very very nice any hints or tips to someone that wants to try this?
> 
> Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2



Yep - follow this or any of the other builds on here (ch4dg is a particular expert and tomcannons, and Thrasops recent threads show excellent builds too!).

Keep a hoover handy and don't be afraid to ask questions on here - lots of experts!


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

bothrops said:


> OK, I think we're there!
> 
> 
> Broke out the 'non-branded dremel' to make groove for the LED wires and the rep radiator wire
> ...


That is awesome! A beautiful setup.
I would love to know what ends up going in there, p.s whats in those other tanks? I am curious, or maybe just nebby:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> That is awesome! A beautiful setup.
> I would love to know what ends up going in there, p.s whats in those other tanks? I am curious, or maybe just nebby:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Thanks mate.

From left to right

young crestie, millipedes and a Hemidactylus sp that came in in a box of handbags and ended up in our possession through a quirk of fate!


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## jimbopfc (Nov 9, 2011)

Done an amazing job here, been thinking of doing a background for my aussies with a basking ledge over their pond & you've made a perfect step by step guide! So many thanks for this but my question is actually about the radiator, what power is it & does it kick out a reasonable amount of heat? Any help would be great!


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

jimbopfc said:


> Done an amazing job here, been thinking of doing a background for my aussies with a basking ledge over their pond & you've made a perfect step by step guide! So many thanks for this but my question is actually about the radiator, what power is it & does it kick out a reasonable amount of heat? Any help would be great!



To be honest mate, I've no idea! I bought it second hand and I haven't actually had it on in the viv yet! I just tested it after I'd bought it and that was it.


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## jimbopfc (Nov 9, 2011)

bothrops said:


> To be honest mate, I've no idea! I bought it second hand and I haven't actually had it on in the viv yet! I just tested it after I'd bought it and that was it.


cheers anyway, after digging through a few more posts on here I believe I've found a guy who can help me out! Good luck picking what to go in your viv,i started my shopping list last night to start mine so pics to follow!:2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

this is ace, what did you use to make the rocks ?


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Meefloaf said:


> this is ace, what did you use to make the rocks ?


Kingspan, insulation material you can get at most DIY places.


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## acromyrmexbob (Oct 3, 2010)

To my shame I am only just catching up on things here. So this is the first time I have seen this rock work thread. Very impressive. I like the painting. And especially the green touches. Looks very good. I might not have put quite so much tank décor in front of the rockwork, I wouldn't want to hide the masterpiece, but I think you have achieved your goal of creating realistic looking rock. The water based varnish that you used tends to go on very milky and then dry, as you say, with a certain effect. Only potential problem I have found with this one, however, is that when it gets very wet it can get sticky again and revert to milkiness a little. I try to use a solvent based varnish whenever possible. 
As you say, lots of very good build threads here but yours must be up there with the best of them. :notworthy:


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## edgar1981 (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm gonna start one of these soon, was thinking about using expanding foam. Anyone had much experience with it?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

acromyrmexbob said:


> To my shame I am only just catching up on things here. So this is the first time I have seen this rock work thread. Very impressive. I like the painting. And especially the green touches. Looks very good. I might not have put quite so much tank décor in front of the rockwork, I wouldn't want to hide the masterpiece, but I think you have achieved your goal of creating realistic looking rock. The water based varnish that you used tends to go on very milky and then dry, as you say, with a certain effect. Only potential problem I have found with this one, however, is that when it gets very wet it can get sticky again and revert to milkiness a little. I try to use a solvent based varnish whenever possible.
> As you say, lots of very good build threads here but yours must be up there with the best of them. :notworthy:


Thanks Andy.

Good advice on the varnish. If I was to do a viv for a very humid environment I would either follow your cement based versions or revert to the expanding foam/silicon/coir I've used previously in dart vivs.

A guess fit all depends on cost, weight and animal.



This viv now houses a 'special' tenrec (he was he runt and is a little deformed) which the finish is perfect for as it is tough enough to withstand claws but light enough to move the viv easily. Also it doesn't need to be too wet at an point, just needs to withstand the odd light spraying.

:2thumb:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

edgar1981 said:


> I'm gonna start one of these soon, was thinking about using expanding foam. Anyone had much experience with it?


Yep.


Very difficult to control. Depending on quality of product and depth of initial 'squeeze' it can be difficult to carve and can have quite large cavities in it.



If covering it in silicon and coir, it can quite good - I've used it in dart frog vivs:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/908903-45cm-exo-terra-cube-paludarium.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/837857-double-3x2x2-paludarium-completed-video.html




But when covering it in grout, it doesn't take it very well and because the foam is so 'soft' the grout easily cracks if pushed so I don't recommend it for animals with any sort of weight or large claws/jaws.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/355117-another-fake-rock-background-build.html






What are you planning on doing and what will be living in there?


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## edgar1981 (Nov 6, 2007)

bothrops said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> Very difficult to control. Depending on quality of product and depth of initial 'squeeze' it can be difficult to carve and can have quite large cavities in it.
> ...





I've ordered a 4x3x2 for my Irian Jaya, she's not big enough for it yet but I'm hoping to make a project out of it over the next few months or so. I'll probably just do a background on a separate board so it's removable (and so it doesn't ruin the whole viv if I cock it up!). It's not especially humid or anything in there, although I was considering having some sort of moving water. Was hoping to make it as realistic as possible, much like yours. I wondered if I could sort of apply the foam in thin layers rather than all in one hit, to avoid the cavities you mentioned.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

edgar1981 said:


> I've ordered a 4x3x2 for my Irian Jaya, she's not big enough for it yet but I'm hoping to make a project out of it over the next few months or so. I'll probably just do a background on a separate board so it's removable (and so it doesn't ruin the whole viv if I cock it up!). It's not especially humid or anything in there, although I was considering having some sort of moving water. Was hoping to make it as realistic as possible, much like yours. I wondered if I could sort of apply the foam in thin layers rather than all in one hit, to avoid the cavities you mentioned.



You could. Also, the more expensive foams tend to produce denser final foams and are better for coating.


I think however, that the best bet for larger vivs is the kingspan method. It provides a firmer base, is much more controllable and much easier to work with all around.

I'd also be a little concerned about the strength of the adhesion of the expanding foam to the viv, especially with the 3' height.


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## edgar1981 (Nov 6, 2007)

bothrops said:


> You could. Also, the more expensive foams tend to produce denser final foams and are better for coating.
> 
> 
> I think however, that the best bet for larger vivs is the kingspan method. It provides a firmer base, is much more controllable and much easier to work with all around.
> ...




Yeah I'll probably go with kingspan if I can find some. Food for thought, cheers for the advice!


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## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

excellent build! good detail given on the dry brushing too! that's my next task!


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