# Pandas at Edinburgh Zoo



## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I remember a while back that there was a big debate about the upcoming arrival of the giant pandas at Edinburgh Zoo. Just wondering if anyone has been to see them, and if they'd like to report back on what they thought of the whole thing?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> I remember a while back that there was a big debate about the upcoming arrival of the giant pandas at Edinburgh Zoo. Just wondering if anyone has been to see them, and if they'd like to report back on what they thought of the whole thing?


Timed and ushered at the moment Chris.

Ill wait till i can spend the time id like too.

My mates been though and said he didnt get long enough..

Plus the fee to get in....
would want to spend as long as..


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

boreing lol

you have to book online for a time slot to see them (its free to book)

and print it out to take with you and you only get about 10/20 mins and are moved on even when its not busy 

luckly i dont pay to get in the zoo but i did find them boring and dont see the big deal about them


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

adamntitch said:


> boreing lol
> 
> you have to book online for a time slot to see them (its free to book)
> 
> ...


And how was the enclosure? And about the actual exhibit.....Was the educational stuff surrounding them any good? I'm not a huge fan of edinburgh zoo, but I would hate to think that they have wasted the opportunity.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

was not to bad if you go on there website theres a live web cam but no ones out side just now


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

adamntitch said:


> was not to bad if you go on there website theres a live web cam but no ones out side just now


:gasp: *Runs to Edinburgh Zoo website to see if I can spot the Pandas!* :mf_dribble:

EDIT: http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/pandacam.html - He's not out to play


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Bit of a sparse enclosure isn't it? Seeing as it would have cost them an absolute fortune to rent the pandas in the first place, you'd have thought they'd have thrown a bit more cash at the living quarters!


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> Bit of a sparse enclosure isn't it? Seeing as it would have cost them an absolute fortune to rent the pandas in the first place, they'd have thrown a bit more cash at the living quarters!


It looked a little small to me, I wonder what there inside enclosure is like? The webcam description says you can see the one Panda Yang, do the two live in different enclosures side by side or together?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

MattsZoo said:


> It looked a little small to me, I wonder what there inside enclosure is like? The webcam description says you can see the one Panda Yang, do the two live in different enclosures side by side or together?


The male lives in an enclosure right next to the female's enclosure, with a mesh grill in one part of the wall so they can see & smell one another.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

as zoo man said its 2 diffrent enclosures side by side well round a bend lol

the indoors are smallish but have 2 parts for each panda one you can see and one that they can get a bit of peace

the enclosures mainly the indoors are not that well done but you have to remember where they came from the pens are realy small and bare concrete pits almost

the chinese keepers came over to check the spaces and enclosures and aprove them as i surpose they wanted it to be more like what there used to and they seam to breed fine over there


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

When I was little the highlight of visiting my family in England was the giant panda in London zoo. I remember once when I was about 6 I watched him/her for over 1h and this old woman was next to me asking if I thought we could teach him ballet. . . She said she was a dance teacher, I have no idea but hey, I was 6 and they did not have any foxies hehe. 

Can you take photos? If you can have any of you got any to share with those of us who live many, many hours away?

-Elina


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

Elina said:


> When I was little the highlight of visiting my family in England was the giant panda in London zoo. I remember once when I was about 6 I watched him/her for over 1h and this old woman was next to me asking if I thought we could teach him ballet. . . She said she was a dance teacher, I have no idea but hey, I was 6 and they did not have any foxies hehe.
> 
> *Can you take photos? If you can have any of you got any to share with those of us who live many, many hours away?*
> 
> -Elina


Agreed! Too far away to visit for me :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

Well i have to admit that since i read on here that there is a live camera there, i have had the live camera on my laptop for at least two hours, knowing that of course i won't see anything. 
I can't wait till tomorrow :flrt:

I wonder how many people in one day go "ooooo" or "ahhhhh" :lol2:


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

I am at a loss why they are actually here if they are not here to attract publicity/promote to the zoo itself, which they deny and say it is for conservation reasons....they have spent how much on an enclosure and how much more is it going to cost to "rent" these pandas for the next 10 years - too much i would say....If for conservation reasons what difference would it make if these pandas are here or in china, they would be serving the same purpose...and are going to end up back over there regardless....if anyone would like to enlighten me on the logic of this please do :lol2:

I think the hype is a bit over rated, i have seen Pandas before over in Hong Kong's Ocean Park, it was nice to see them though and from the comments about how the viewings are working at Edinburgh Zoo it sounds pretty much the same, organised groups were sent through side by side enclosures, with a viewing time of probably about 20 minutes. I had time to get a few pictures and a short video

I actually want to go back down to Edinburgh at some point to see the sun bears and what their enclosures are like as i have not seen them yet, however i doubt i will be down there until all this Panda hype dies down! :lol2:


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

the sun bears are more exciting to see lol

i never got any pics as camaras crap but there is a zoo forum am on where there is more info on the pandas and pics

heres the link to the forum lots of goss and info about the goings on in nearly every zoo world wide 

http://www.zoochat.com/


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Mr Liu Xiaoming, ambassador of China to the UK, said: "Pandas are a Chinese national treasure.

"This historical agreement is a gift to the people of the UK from China.

"It will represent an important symbol of our friendship and will bring our two people closer together." (BBC News)

Sounds like they're still being used as a diplomatic tool to me, thinly disguised as a conservation effort.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

as they say

wonder what they will think or say about the thing going on just now about there crul fur trade was in the paper today and how the uk wants them to stop it


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I personally dont think that it is wrong to have these as an exhibit to draw in the public.Surely it will be better for all of the other animals if the funds created by their arrival are ploughed back into the zoo? Zoos are places of entertainment as well as conservation and education.

I remember the excitement when the Giant Pandas came to London Zoo it created a lot of good publicity and I would imagine increased revenue.

But as an exhibit the seemed to spend most of the time hunched over half asleep so pretty boring really.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

As mrcriss said, China allowing zoo's to have a pair of Giant pandas seem to seal any business negotiations, both at that time and in the future.

I think when people go and see Giant pandas they expect them to be quite active. And they don't actually realise how lazy (by the typical standards) they actually are.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

UrolithicTitan said:


> As mrcriss said, China allowing zoo's to have a pair of Giant pandas seem to seal any business negotiations, both at that time and in the future.
> .


It has always been this way ,Ching Ching and Cha Cha were "given" to Edward Heath thirty odd years ago.They are bargaining tools but that is the only way that zoos will get Giant Pandas.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

colinm said:


> I personally dont think that it is wrong to have these as an exhibit to draw in the public.Surely it will be better for all of the other animals if the funds created by their arrival are ploughed back into the zoo? Zoos are places of entertainment as well as conservation and education.
> 
> I remember the excitement when the Giant Pandas came to London Zoo it created a lot of good publicity and I would imagine increased revenue.
> 
> But as an exhibit the seemed to spend most of the time hunched over half asleep so pretty boring really.


Maybe you misunderstand me....I don't blame Edinburgh at all. It's an amazing coup for them, and bravo! I hope they do well out of it, and that the pandas don't keep dying like the London ones.

It's the actions of the Chinese that stick in my throat here. They made a huge hoohaa about _stopping_ using pandas as diplomatic gifts, and keeping them to themselves for conservation purposes.....making themselves out to be all noble as the saviours of the panda, and that they are the only ones with the know-how to breed them; whilst at the same time time doing more than any other country to wipe out various other highly threatened species throughout the world by means of outdated "medical" practices. Panda care for a long time seemed to become all hush hush and cloak and dagger whilst the Chinese "sorted it out". 

Now they seem suddenly to have realised what a cash generator a couple of pandas can be, and pass them around using glib phrases like "it'll bring our countries together". Call me cynical, but I don't buy it.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

The London Zoo ones seemed to last a fair time but I am sure that husbandry techniques have improved now.

It is a cynical ploy by the Chinese but Giant Pandas are a good bargaining tool but they hve been doing the same for years.

Other countries have done it to a lesser extent as well but their animals are not as high profile as the Giant Panda.If you went around London Zoo say twenty years ago you would see plaques on the side of cages donated by so and so to the Queen or Prime Minister.Animals and especially high profile animals do enter into political side of foreign policy.

As an aside I wonder whether the pandas will be as big a draw as hoped ? We have such good internet and televisual acces to wild animals ,will many people want to see them in the flesh?


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Just been watching panda going round and round same small area down far end of cage,unless they are just replaying same footage,though it is a live webcam.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

colinm said:


> As an aside I wonder whether the pandas will be as big a draw as hoped ?


Well they're costing £600,000 a year in rent PLUS the highly expensive diet and no doubt the massively expensive breeding techniques that they'll be contracted to employ by the Chinese. Maybe putting them all the way up there in Edinburgh was a bit of a bogus move. To make the money back on them, one would have thought that a more centrally placed zoo would have been more prudent.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Not knowing the workings on this but perhaps other zoos didn`t want them?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Possibly.

Just tuned into "panda cam" myself.....nice to see the poor thing is bored stiff already! :whistling2: And this is for an animal that is _famous_ for being happy doing nothing!

I watched a clip of a zoo official being interviewed, and he said something like "it's fun to watch the male snoozing, and the female pacing around"....._pacing around!_ Like he's already trying to laugh off stereotypical behaviour as an endearing panda quirk!

Sorry, maybe I'm being over-dramatic here, but I've not seen another person since before NYE due to enforced quarantine (i.e. I have the lurgee, and people don't wanna catch it again, so won't visit........ahhhhhhhhhhhh  )


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

Whenever I turn on Panda cam he's never out to play!  lol I will see him at some point!


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

At £600k a year that is a very odd "gift", I hope I do not start getting bills for my X-mas gifts. . . 
So how many zoos have Giant pandas now? I mean in the world not just the U.K.
-Elina


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Elina said:


> At £600k a year that is a very odd "gift", I hope I do not start getting bills for my X-mas gifts. . .
> So how many zoos have Giant pandas now? I mean in the world not just the U.K.
> -Elina



Panda Zoos | www.GiantPandaZoo.com


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

You are very good with that google button! :no1:
-Elina


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

the first pic of a panda on that page looks like it's been caught having a poo!


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> the first pic of a panda on that page looks like it's been caught having a poo!


The first picture made me burst out laughing :lol2: The awkward smile he has! I think he is doing a poop too :lol2:


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

mrcriss said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Just tuned into "panda cam" myself.....nice to see the poor thing is bored stiff already! :whistling2: And this is for an animal that is _famous_ for being happy doing nothing!
> 
> ...


the enclosure there in is about 5 times the size of what they came out off over there same as the sun bears they ofen pace but where rescues from tiny cages in peoples houses

i think once animals learn to pace they seam to always do it


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

adamntitch said:


> the enclosure there in is about 5 times the size of what they came out off over there same as the sun bears they ofen pace but where rescues from tiny cages in peoples houses
> 
> i think once animals learn to pace they seam to always do it


Not really, pacing is a sign of boredom. For example, take the Amur Leopards at West-midlands safari park. They only have a small outdoor enclosure and when i go and their awake, they are always pacing along the viewing window. However, when you go to see the Jaguars at Chester zoo when their awake they don't pace at all when in the outside enclosure. Same goes with their Spectacled bear.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Theres lots of the cats at Edinburgh pace back and forth with boredome.
Can some not develope this even if moved to bigger area.

See it with primates with the head curling all the time.
Even when moved they never loose it..

Like ex lab monkeys.
Mates have caps n squirrels n uglies and they have vast areas.

But you can still see them do it..


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Bit of controversy here: _Should_ pandas be saved? They don't do much to help themselves; a carnivore that deliberately eats some of the least nutritious vegetation on the planet? That can hardly be bothered to breed? Discuss...:whistling2:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Not if you are talking about it in a rational way but they are a good "poster" species for conservation and as such they can help other less known species.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Bit of controversy here: _Should_ pandas be saved? They don't do much to help themselves; a carnivore that deliberately eats some of the least nutritious vegetation on the planet? That can hardly be bothered to breed? Discuss...:whistling2:


hahahahaha....sh:censor: stirrer! :lol2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> hahahahaha....sh:censor: stirrer! :lol2:


 True.


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Bit of controversy here: _Should_ pandas be saved? They don't do much to help themselves; a carnivore that deliberately eats some of the least nutritious vegetation on the planet? That can hardly be bothered to breed? Discuss...:whistling2:


Me and my bf were talking about this yesterday when I showed him 'Panda Cam' lol, (by the way third day now and I still haven't seen the bloody thing!)

He says it's not working, I say we should try harder :hmm: You can't just _let_ them die out, but what can we really do to save them, Panda IVF? lol I wouldn't like the job of getting some Panda sperm :whistling2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

MattsZoo said:


> Me and my bf were talking about this yesterday when I showed him 'Panda Cam' lol, (by the way third day now and I still haven't seen the bloody thing!)
> 
> He says it's not working, I say we should try harder :hmm: You can't just _let_ them die out, but what can we really do to save them, Panda IVF? lol I wouldn't like the job of getting some Panda sperm :whistling2:


They do panda IVF in china 

Google "panda cam"....there's loads!


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

I SEE HIM! I SEE HIM! I SEE HIM! :lol2: I got so excited, the bf looked at me like I was a freak...


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

I saw him tooooo!!!! :flrt:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

aww, I saw him too!!


I'm not sure renting pandas from china for £600,000 a year does much for the conservation of the panda or any other species. There are critically endangered animals that need our help because we have destroyed their environment etc. but the panda... like Ron said, it was once a carnivore and now only eats bamboo. I don't want to see it die out, but if the Chinese were really concernered they wouldn't see little (whatever Chinese money is) signs.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

UrolithicTitan said:


> Not really, pacing is a sign of boredom. For example, take the Amur Leopards at West-midlands safari park. They only have a small outdoor enclosure and when i go and their awake, they are always pacing along the viewing window. However, when you go to see the Jaguars at Chester zoo when their awake they don't pace at all when in the outside enclosure. Same goes with their Spectacled bear.





PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Theres lots of the cats at Edinburgh pace back and forth with boredome.
> Can some not develope this even if moved to bigger area.
> 
> See it with primates with the head curling all the time.
> ...


Big cats don't just pace in captivity due to boredom. Many species of big cat in the wild spend a lot of their time patrolling their territories, checking boundaries, etc. In captivity, this instinct is often shown via the animal pacing up & down.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

it's the head-weaving that's more upsetting...particularly in elephants.

Anyone ever been really embarrassed at a zoo? I remember when I was a kid at London zoo with my old maid great aunt, and a monkey started violently masturbating......the funny thing was, this happened again just a few weeks ago when I took my 5 yr old niece to the zoo and the dominant male mandrill was cracking one off, and she was fascinated! My mum and I were wetting ourselves....and dying inside!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> it's the head-weaving that's more upsetting...particularly in elephants.
> 
> Anyone ever been really embarrassed at a zoo? I remember when I was a kid at London zoo with my old maid great aunt, and a monkey started violently masturbating......the funny thing was, this happened just a few weeks ago when I took my 5 yr old niece to the zoo and the dominant male mandrill was cracking one off, and she was fascinated! My mum and I were wetting ourselves!


Yes, Elephants swaying their heads repeatedly is a sad sight indeed.


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

Last time i was at Edinburgh Zoo probably around a year ago there was a barrier up against the glass of the Male Amur Leopard's enclosure as it had taken to attacking the glass constantly when people were looking through....of all the times i have viewed the big cats there he was always the one constantly pacing back and forth along the front of the enclosure next to the glass too. I don't really think the big cat enclosures at Edinburgh are big enough at all. 

A few animals actually there i think could be doing with much bigger enclosures..but i guess that is probably the case at most Zoo's..


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Jamiioo said:


> A few animals actually there i think could be doing with much bigger enclosures..but i guess that is probably the case at most Zoo's..


....lest we mention "the forgotten corner" at London Zoo (i.e. the giraffes/okapi/tapir/zebra section! oh, and the camels!)


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> ....lest we mention "the forgotten corner" at London Zoo (i.e. the giraffes/okapi/tapir/zebra section! oh, and the camels!)


The problem with London Zoo is that a lot of their houses or enclosures are listed so they cannot pull them down and start again.This would surely be better for the animals and the zoo authorities would probably want it.Its therefore making the best of a bad situation.

Over the years they have reduced the numbers of animals and numbers of species but they are hindered somewhat by the public.Most people when they go to London Zoo will want to Lions,Tigers,Giraffes,Zebra etc and the zoo needs these to attrract people in.Your average man in the street would not know what an Okapi is and therefore not visit the zoo to see them.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

This is why Durrell was a hero of mine....he didn't give a tiny toss about what the public wanted to see! 

......or indeed whether the public could see the animal at all!!!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Sorry Kids, The Pandas Must Die - YouTube


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Big cats don't just pace in captivity due to boredom. Many species of big cat in the wild spend a lot of their time patrolling their territories, checking boundaries, etc. In captivity, this instinct is often shown via the animal pacing up & down.


Not doupting the fact Colin.
The area they were pacing was at the glass and it didnt look like instinct.
Some and most were defo boredome..
Especially the jaguar it was sole distroying to watch...
They have a row which is all very small enclosures.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

If zoos see this type of behaviour why do they not do something about it,it is not always the cage is too small,maybe too big,if the pandas have been use to a smaller area for years being put into a large area could cause stress,solid walls could cause stress,too many people about,it could be a number of things not always boredom.Some animals do it out of habit and may never stop,but sometimes there could be a solution.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

IMG_0236 by DavieB2011, on Flickr

I have a load of pictures of the pandas on my other PC, but most are similar to this in their indoor enclosure if they had been outside I'd have taken more, this is the Male if there is demand I'll put up some of the female and more of him you want.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Zoo-Man said:


> Big cats don't just pace in captivity due to boredom. Many species of big cat in the wild spend a lot of their time patrolling their territories, checking boundaries, etc. In captivity, this instinct is often shown via the animal pacing up & down.


Edinburgh Zoo have been very proactive in moving there large animals which require more space up the highland wildlife park in Aviemore, they get far less visitors at the highland wildlife park yet send the animals there for there welfare and conservation projects.


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