# complete novice advice please



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

a few questions please,complete novice just slowly looking into possibility of getting fish 

can clown fish be kept in 30 l tank ?

what are good beginner fish, but not boring ones . id like something hardy but interesting 

i like the look of biorb ,any good?

room is a problem, so obviously i wouldnt want to get anything that needs a big tank . a 30-50 L tank would be ideal 

what needs replacing in a set up, and how often ?

im experienced with reps and things like uv strip lights need replacing every 6 months 

and is it correct that you need to change 25% ish of the water each month ? 

as in surely you cant be expected to change all the water each month, where would the fish go ? lol

as you can tell, complete beginner lol


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

You can indeed keep Clownfish (I'm assuming you mean Common or Percula Clownfish) in a 30 litre tank, however if you've never kept fish before I'd put Clownfish and other marines to one side until you've gained some experience. Clownfish come from the ocean which is a very stable environment, as such marine organisms are adapted to very stable conditions such as pH and salinity. A 30 litre tank is quite small and smaller volumes of water are more prone to fluctuations in pH, temperature and salinity.

Bi-Orbs may look stylish, but their spherical shape makes them harder to clean than conventional aquariums and the surface area is restricted, meaning less area available for gas exchange. The filtration system also leaves much to be desired, as it is prone to clogging and the coarse, alfagrog substrate on the bottom (which also serves as the biological media) traps a large amount of detritus.

Very little actually needs replacing in an aquarium in a regular basis. Fluorescent tubes should be replaced every six months due to diminishing light output. In a standard internal or external filter, the biological media (usually sponges, ceramic rings or balls) shouldn't be replaced. Instead it should be rinsed every couple of weeks in old aquarium water. Mechanical media (usually filter floss) and chemical media (e.g. carbon, rowaphos) should be replaced when ever it either clogs or expires. Chemical media normally needs to be replaced every few weeks, but there isn't normally much need for it in established freshwater aquariums. 

It's much better to carry out smaller but more frequent water changes as opposed to one large water change every few weeks. I suggest 15-20% weekly water change regime. This will also help to prevent a build-up of waste in the substrate and keep nitrates and phosphates down - the latter providing your tapwater isn't loaded in nutrients.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

so its best for a typical rectangle shape then? 

do you ever have to totally replace the water though? and clean the tank etc ?

what are good beginners fish then ?

what is easiest, freshwater or salt water?

cheers!


----------



## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

You'll never really find the need to completely drain the tank down, except for the very rare occasion where you might have to replace the substrate or re-scape the tank's decor.

I'd highly recommend a rectangular or cube-shaped aquarium, simply because they're easier to clean and have higher surface areas in comparison to spherical tanks including Bi-Orbs.

While marine (saltwater) fishkeeping has never been easier or cheaper thanks to better equipment and more easy-to-find information, freshwater fishkeeping still stands as the easiest and cheapest of the two. 

Tastes vary where fish selection is concerned. For a 30-50 litre tank I wouldn't recommend buying any fish that grows larger than 5cm/2" in length. Most small tetras, barbs, rasboras and danios should be fine; along with smaller anabantoids and catfish such as Corydoras.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

cheers, ill do some more research


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah definitely go freshwater and make sure you read up on fishless cycling. If you need any help post away.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

cheers 

ultimatley im looking for a tank with maybe 3 diff species of fish together , all smaller side,but want interesting looking fish 

guppies are freshwater,is that right?


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

They are!

How about a little south american set up? 5/6 corydoras on the bottom and two species of tetras shoaling in the middle of the water.

What's your budget?


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

budget , i dont really know to be honest

how much is a reasonable amount to pay for a small-med freshwater set up?

i want something easyish to keep, but not like goldfish ...i see you keep snakes...think something better than run of mill corn snake, but not a green tree python lol

is saltwater defo out then for a beginner?

oh and on a site for beginners aquariums, i saw this :
*Care: *Easy
*pH: *6.0 - 8.0
*Hardness: *up to 30 dGH
*Temperature: *64-82 F (18-28)



what does the hardness bit mean ??


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'd say saltwater is out for a beginner, you could do it with loads and loads of research, like anything.

Water hardness is the measure of calcium and magnesium in your water. It will change depending on where you live.

Hmmm not sure on fish, I tend to shy away from the more common species but I do like tetras, there's so many to choose from. Dwarf cichlids might be worth a look. Your corn snakes of the fish world tend to be things like goldfish, mollies, guppies, tetras to an extent etc etc


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

You'll need to get a test kit to measure all the stuff in your water, I use the API ones, they're really good. About £20 on ebay.


Everything soon adds up :lol2:

Buying second hand saves you a sh*tload of money, you can get a medium size set up for £100 I reckon.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

cool cheers,im a while off yet anyways 

i would prefer saltwater, but depends, that would add more expense 

i do like the multicoloured guppies though, i think they are the most colouful freshwater fish ive seen


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

*marine*

hi.
as explained before, marine aquariums would not be an option for a first time fish keeper. they need lots of care, stability etc. it's only advice, but if you decide to go marine, on your head be it lol.
nice freshwater fish are cichlids, small south american cichlids such as; convicts, keyholes, blue/gold/bolivian rams. other fish such as beta, small minnow like fish, neon tetra, white cloud mountain minnow etc.
these fish are all very easy to care for, by comparison to saltwater fish, they are not expensive and are always available in aquatic shops.
if you want a compromise, look into brackish species. one could buy a puffer, they have amazing character and need a regular supply of shellfish, they have beaks so need to grind it down, the same way as you give budgies cuttlefish. other brackish fish such as datnoids and monos are very nice, they do require a bit more room though.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

i would prefer salt water, but to honest will prob go freshwater anyways, id rather do it right and it will be cheaper 

some of those you suggested look quite interesting


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

i would leave the salt water until you are a very old retired man, with very little else to do, they are constant work, don't even start on corals, that's where the price adds up, i've seen small 30L setups for sale, with a single clown (the black one with white stripes, not sure on the name) with a couple of anenomes and coral go for in excess of £400.
have you thought about aquascaping? i well scaped freshwater tank looks far nicer than marine, look into carpet type plants, that will colonise the floor of the tank.
but yeah.. i keep cichlids, they have far more personality than any marine fish, well aside from dolphins lol.
i seriously suggest trying to get a bigger tank.
heres a thought... google: black ghost knife and african knifefish. they are so gool, i have a black ghost, mr wiggles


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

lol fair enough, i dont like sound of that 

freshwater it is

looked up a few and there are some decent looking ones

i want one that is low maintenance really, dont mind having to empty some water etc, as long as nothing too physical 

ive never heard of aquascaping etc, im complete novice aside from a goldfish about 20 years ago lol

ill look it up cheers


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

just had a look. so what is it, the art of aqua gardening sort of thing ? some look a bit over crowded


----------



## Jack0 (Sep 28, 2009)

its basically just well thought out planted tanks, some of them look the part, and i love the look of the overgrown ones. 

If your willing to spend a bit of time i would defintaley suggest a bit of aquascaping. What siz tank do you think you'll end up going with? If your wanting live plants youll need some decent lights too.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

im not sure, a 3 foot tank maybe 

are live plants essential ?


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

3 foot is quite large, it will be simple to maintain, so long as you have a test kit, in a larger tank, the water paramaters are much more stable.
in a tank of that size, one could keep a small school of 6 or 7 buenos aires tetra. 
look on a site called: the tropical tank . it features numerous beginner type fish, but imo, a small south american blackwater setup would be far easier to look after, black water fish are far more hardy. this is fish such as the colourful tetra: neon, cardinal, silver tip, penguin and buenos aires etc.
in a tank that size, you could easily have 2f:1m of any ram, instead of this, you could keep a black ghost knife.. i keep mine in a 3foot, 110l as a grow on, watch these type of fish. black, quick etc. small fish will go missing.
in a black water biotope, you do not neec to have 'black' water, just fairly soft and with some tanins. keeping bogwood or mopani wood will help achieve this.
another alternative would be a south east asian stream biotope.
you could have a school of any 1 type of cyprinid (sp?) barbs, rasboras etc.
to reduce regular algae cleaning, a small group of maybe 5 butterfly loach or 5 flying fox would keep it down.
this type of aquarium needs little to no plants, it does need to have fine natural colour gravel, with a few large rocks as something for the fish to avoid.
try not to mix different fish, from different places.
hope thiis helps


----------



## Tommy123 (Sep 19, 2008)

Personally I think you could start out with a marine tank, if you've taken enough time to research deeply. 
I'm 13 and researched for months and I finally have one now, and to be honest it's not _that _hard to maintain as long as you keep on top of things. But at the end of the day it's up to you, and your the one whose got to make the decision but just make sure you do your research* before* buying anything.
Tom


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

tommy.. do you keep fish in your aquarium? your sig shows as snails ad shrimp. from experience, marine fish are the hardest part of a marine aquarium.... they are prone to stress and other parasites.
i think , i can't remember who asked the q, but they wan't fish in their aquarium, if done right it looks very nice and it is succesful, but i think that fw is the way to go, for a first timer.
btw i'm 15, it seems as us youngens know our stuff lol


----------



## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Sorry to go against the flow but...
I have to come in here, I reckon you can totally do marine with no freshwater experience, in fact I think it might be preferable! I did fresh before marine and had to unlearn so much stuff it was ridiculous, it's as if the two are totally unrelated.
If you really want marine I'd say give it a go, but just take it super slow and be prepared to read like a nutcase.

Buy an all in one tank to start, like -
Boyu TL-450
or
Red Sea Max Black
(There's others but I know those two are good)

Research it like crazy
Get in a bit of live rock and pre mixed saltwater (bought by the bucket from your LFS)
Do your cycling (you have to research this bit but it's actually easier in marine than fresh due to live rock.)
Get some inverts (CUC, again, research)
Buy a pair of clowns

Tada, tank done!

Take a look at this guys journey to get his marine journey started, should give you the basics to start thinking about - Nemo Paradise


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

ultimatley i want whatever is easiest , and whatever needs less maintenance 

i have my hands full most of time with other pets and want something nice too look at but not something i have to constantly keep checking and worrying about 

i do think freshwater seems to be the easiest of the 2 ?


----------



## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

If you want a no nonsense pet then I think fish may be out altogether. I have a mantis and he needs way less maintenance than both my tanks.
Fish are no bother, feed once a day and leave alone, however water maintenence is a hard job, testing, chemistry, algae control, temperature issues, as has been said many times before, you don't keep fish, you keep water!


----------



## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

carter2011 said:


> ultimatley i want whatever is easiest , and whatever needs less maintenance
> 
> i have my hands full most of time with other pets and want something nice too look at but not something i have to constantly keep checking and worrying about
> 
> i do think freshwater seems to be the easiest of the 2 ?


I don't think any ind of fish can be ruled out as a beginners species.

Look after their requirements, and as long as you do so the fish will look after themselves.

Having said that, freshwater in this case would get my vote.

Go for a bigger tank, plants and cardinals with some cory's. :flrt::flrt:


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

im sure i could get to grips with freshwater, ive kept reptiles for years on and off 

i dont mind a bit of chemistry as long as not too full on and time consuming


----------



## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

personally, if you want a low maintenance pet, i would not go with fish,but they can be very rewarding. any fish need hard work and commitment, weekly partial water changes (you wouldnt leave a hamster in a cage for weeks with no clean outs) or if you get a smaller tank then this could even need doing every few days depending on stocking. my 6ft fancy goldfish tank and 4ft tropical community get once a week partial water changes of around 50%. i would do 2 30% changes a week instead but dont have the time during the week so we spend up to 3 hours of a weekend just doing our partial water changes. it isnt advisable to do such large changes but our fish are used to it and our tanks are heavily stocked, and we have great success with it. the goldfish are the hardest of any fish ive owned, and would say stear clear of them if you want an easy to maintain set-up. fresh water tropical fish are much easier IMO and far less work to keep healthy. marine i have no idea as so far i havent delved into that.

3ft is a good size tank, not too big to make weekly water changes a chore, but not so small as to greatly restrict stocking. i have to say i dont agree with adding a fish which will grow too large for your tank and using it as a grow out tank. you dont know what is around the corner which may mean you cannot upgrade in time for the fish and you wont know when stunting begins so the fish could well end up suffering. 

a nice little community tank with some live plants which will help maintain the water quality through the week and it will tick over nicely for you once cycled. you could look at guppies,endlers, harlequin rasboras, smaller tetras such as neons, cardinals, black neons, silvertips, platys, and have some bottom dwellers such as school of 5-6 corydorus catfish-panda corys are very sweet little guys. 

you do need to research the aquarium cycle process, this can take around 6 weeks, and you will need a liquid drop test kit. test strips can be very innaccurate so try to steer clear of those, they may seem a cheaper option but there is a reason for that, and for £20 you can have a quality liquid test kit. 

the readings you need to end up with are ammonia-0, nitrites-0, and a reading of up to 40ppm nitrates though less than 20ppm is preferable. nitrates are kept low via weekly partial water changes. any reading of ammonia or nitrites can prove harmful and possibly fatal for fish, so during cycling if you are using fish to cycle the tank, you must carry out partial water changes every few days at most to try and ensure the wellbeing of your fish. a better way to cycle is fishless, using pure ammonia dosed into the tank every day. then its just a large partial water change once cycled and you can stock your tank. if you know someone close by with an established tank, you can ask to take a piece of their established filter media to seed your tank. this will kick start your bacteria colony and you can cycle in much less time. just make sure any tap water added to your tank is treated. very little of the bacteria live in the water column, it sticks to the decor, gravel and the majority in the filter media, so to kick start the cycle, use preferably established filter media, or a handful of aquarium gravel. 

you should never need to completely empty your tank, and any partial water changes should leave the fish in the tank. a gravel vac is an essential IMO, one of the jiggle starter ones which have a valve in them, so you just jiggle them up and down in the water to get them going then push the end into the gravel to suck out the debris. syphon straight into a bucket or in my case, straight out the window into the garden. filter media should then be removed, swished and squeezed gently into a bucket of old tank water (never untreated tap water) and then placed back into the filter. do not let it dry out. then refill the tank using buckets of tap water which have been treated before they go into the tank, temperature matched using warm water aswell if need be just ensure your tapw ater treatment treats for metals in it too. 20% water change with gravel vac once per week should keep a tank in good condition and fish healthy. 

sponge or ceramic filter media never needs replacing unless literally falling apart. then do not replace all at the same time, keep back some of the old one to seed the new one. 

make sure you research any fish yourself, before buying, sales people in shops are usually there to simply sell you the item, even live fish, and a lot will tell you wrong information to make the sale, regardless of whether the fish will suffer or the new owner having issues. make a list of what fish you like the look of, and research each fish on several sites to ensure you get good information on them. 

there are some very knowledgable people on here who im sure will be happy to help with any questions you ask.


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

^ i agree, you seem to want fish that require little care.. as goldie said, fish aren't animals that need little care.
and goldie.. it's fine as a grow out for me, i have a larger tank lined up  it's the space i need lol.


----------



## carter2011 (Feb 4, 2011)

sound cheers, i got what im after sorted, ill spend a few months researching and getting it all together


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

you don't need that long to research. you have all of us. that must add up to about a day worth lol


----------



## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

researching the aquarium cycle process can take a while to get into your head though :2thumb: also, deciding and researching which fish to stock with. best to research loads beforehand than try and patch up mistakes afterwards :lol2:


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

goldie1212 said:


> researching the aquarium cycle process can take a while to get into your head though :2thumb: also, deciding and researching which fish to stock with. best to research loads beforehand than try and patch up mistakes afterwards :lol2:


change my mind. that's perfect. i rushed my first tank, now have 3 perfect ones through learning by my losses


----------

