# Eeeexciteddd!! :D



## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

For quite a while now I've been trying to convince my parents to get a marine tank, and they've finally given in! :2thumb: I've already got a tank that I've said we can use, it hasn't had anything in for quite a while now.. so just gotta give it a clean up, and off we go!

It's I think roughly 90L (there or thereabouts) at 2.5(l) x 1(w) x 1.5(h) feet.. I've heard it might be a bit hard in a tank that, in terms of marine setups, is quite small.. but we'll give it a go!


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## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

Just keep it nice and simple and try to stick to a fish only tank and you should be fine.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Paul B said:


> Just keep it nice and simple and try to stick to a fish only tank and you should be fine.


Yeah I was going to just keep maybe a couple of clowns, possibly a few damsels and maybe a tang.. not much else apart from some live rock :2thumb: but yeah, slow and steady wins the race :lol2:


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

unfortunately tang would be too large to go in there , i have a rio 180 which is 100cm long and cant keep one either  look at the dwarf angels if your looking for a centrepiece fish , i have a pair of yellow band maroons and this Eibl's Angelfish as my centrepiece fish


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Danggg... i like tangs  ahh well, thats a very pretty angel though.. they're not that hardy though are they...? That might be a late addition.:whistling2:


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

should be one of the last but a 90 litre wont hold many fish , id say 5 :/


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

ridium said:


> should be one of the last but a 90 litre wont hold many fish , id say 5 :/


Yeah I know, but doesn't mean it wont look good..


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> Danggg... i like tangs  ahh well, thats a very pretty angel though.. they're not that hardy though are they...? That might be a late addition.:whistling2:


dwarf angels are as tough as nails if you make sure they're feeding in the shop- but them & damsels might not like each other, as both like a punch-up over territory!:lol2: in fact, most damsels aren't good with other fish. the angel will have to go in last, btw.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Paul B said:


> Just keep it nice and simple and try to stick to a fish only tank and you should be fine.


i have kept 9 & 12 gal nano reef tanks successfully. in fact, the 9 gal is about to be set up again this weekend.



ridium said:


> unfortunately tang would be too large to go in there , i have a rio 180 which is 100cm long and cant keep one either  look at the dwarf angels if your looking for a centrepiece fish , i have a pair of yellow band maroons and this Eibl's Angelfish as my centrepiece fish
> 
> image


actually, ridium, there is a tang you could keep- a yellow tang. i had one in a 36"x12"x18" tank & it did very well.


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

I have to disagree slightly here guys, with the right equipment there's no reason to keep a 90 litre tank fish only.... Can make an awesome reef, and also... I'd add the damsels last with the angel fish 2nd to last (although I wouldn't reccomend damsels at all), I also wouldn't reccomend and eibls as 5-6inchs is abit large for a 90 ltr tank you'd be much better looking at something like a flameback angel that look nicer and stay around 2-3 inches


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Oh and if you have your heart set on a tang there are a couple of species you can keep, you can either get a small yellow tang like Wilkins says and the chances are before it's grown to big you will have a bigger tank or you can look at some of the smaller species, carrabean tangs tend to come in tiny as do some of the mimic species....


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> I have to disagree slightly here guys, with the right equipment there's no reason to keep a 90 litre tank fish only.... Can make an awesome reef, and also... I'd add the damsels last with the angel fish 2nd to last (although I wouldn't reccomend damsels at all), I also wouldn't reccomend and eibls as 5-6inchs is abit large for a 90 ltr tank you'd be much better looking at something like a flameback angel that look nicer and stay around 2-3 inches


well, like i said, i've kept 9 & 12 gal nano reefs- & guess what? i had more success with them, than when i ran bigger tanks of 30 gal. i found the maintenence easier, lights cheaper to replace, & water changes less tedious.



Kev132 said:


> Oh and if you have your heart set on a tang there are a couple of species you can keep, you can either get a small yellow tang like Wilkins says and the chances are before it's grown to big you will have a bigger tank or you can look at some of the smaller species, carrabean tangs tend to come in tiny as do some of the mimic species....


my yellow tang never outgrew its tank. i forgot about the mimic tangs- some of them stay quite small.


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

lol your recommending a fish that can grow up to 8 to 10 inches? in a 90 litre tank? my yellow tang was 5 inches and was too big for my rio 180. if you want to stunt a fishes growth and shorten its life then by all means do it


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Have you ever seen a 10" yellow tang ? No me neither...

I have 6 in a 8x3x2 at work and they took 4 years to grow from 3-6"and they seem to have maxed out at that, so opts we no problem with finding a 2" one have having it in a 90 litre tank for a year or 2, as like I said he's much likely to upgrade the tank, or gave up on marines in that time.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Kev132 said:


> I have to disagree slightly here guys, with the right equipment there's no reason to keep a 90 litre tank fish only.... Can make an awesome reef


I do want some corals in my tank if I'm honest, it just makes it a real reef... and I'm not completely set on what fish I'm gonna put in; if Damsels aren't that great in reefs then I won't have any :lol2:


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

damsels are fine in reefs , the problem is damsels are mean and fiesty little things that will terrorise everything


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

ridium said:


> damsels are fine in reefs , the problem is damsels are mean and fiesty little things that will terrorise everything


.... a bit contradictory....? :lol2: Does that mean that they can be kept with other 'reef safe' fish or not?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> Have you ever seen a 10" yellow tang ? No me neither...
> 
> I have 6 in a 8x3x2 at work and they took 4 years to grow from 3-6"and they seem to have maxed out at that, so opts we no problem with finding a 2" one have having it in a 90 litre tank for a year or 2, as like I said he's much likely to upgrade the tank, or gave up on marines in that time.


i don't think yellows grow to 10''- all of the literature on them says 6'' max.



hodgesa said:


> .... a bit contradictory....? :lol2: Does that mean that they can be kept with other 'reef safe' fish or not?


they are great in a reef tank- but like i said in my first post in the thread, they like a punch up with other fish. a dwarf angel will be ok if it goes in last, but damsels may start a fight anyway.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> they are great in a reef tank- but like i said in my first post in the thread, they like a punch up with other fish. a dwarf angel will be ok if it goes in last, but damsels may start a fight anyway.


I think I might just stay away from damsels all together :lol2:


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

wilkinss77 said:


> i don't think yellows grow to 10''- all of the literature on them says 6'' max.
> 
> they are great in a reef tank- but like i said in my first post in the thread, they like a punch up with other fish. a dwarf angel will be ok if it goes in last, but damsels may start a fight anyway.


So why when told he could put a yellow tang in did you go off on one at stunting the growth of an 8-10" fish ?

By reef safe he means they are safe with your corals, but not safe with te other fish you would typically have on a reef, honesty mate if leave the damsels out, IMO only way damsels can be kept well is in big groups in large tanks where they can bicker with each other...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> I think I might just stay away from damsels all together :lol2:


i've always tended to avoid them. there are a few that will mix- green chromis & blue chromis are ok, but they need a shoal to really settle. another which isn't too bad, is the sapphire or fiji damsel. it's electric blue, with a yellow belly, dorsal fin & tail. i've kept them twice- the only exceptions to my damsel ban, lol! they're fine with anything already in the tank, but will kick off with any new fish, a bit like dwarf angels.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Kev132 said:


> So why when told he could put a yellow tang in did you go off on one at stunting the growth of an 8-10" fish ?


that wasn't me- i said a yellow would be ok.


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Oops, my bad ! :blush:


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> i've always tended to avoid them. there are a few that will mix- green chromis & blue chromis are ok, but they need a shoal to really settle. another which isn't too bad, is the sapphire or fiji damsel. it's electric blue, with a yellow belly, dorsal fin & tail. i've kept them twice- the only exceptions to my damsel ban, lol! they're fine with anything already in the tank, but will kick off with any new fish, a bit like dwarf angels.


So chromis are ok? I've always loved chocolate dipped chromis


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> So chromis are ok? I've always loved chocolate dipped chromis


just yahoo'd those, & yes, they're said to be placid. & not as shoal-dependent as the blue or green. but you either need a shoal of 6 or more, or just one- less than 6 will fight.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> just yahoo'd those, & yes, they're said to be placid. & not as shoal-dependent as the blue or green. but you either need a shoal of 6 or more, or just one- less than 6 will fight.


Ok thanks :no1: although I think I've already set up my tank in my mind, I think I'm gonna have a couple of clowns, a cleaner wrass, possibly a small goby and maybe a bit later a small angel  and a few different corals, not too many, but a few just to snazz it up a bit :2thumb:

Thanks for all the replies guys :notworthy:


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

it was me who said he shouldnt go with a 10" fish , and i stick by that , a yellow tang grows 6 to 7 " max , a mimic tang which was being touted grow to 10"

your claiming he will upgrade yet read his first post

"For quite a while now I've been trying to convince my parents to get a marine tank, and they've finally given in!" 

if its taken a while for him/her to be aloowed a 90 litre tank , i doubt they will agree to an upgrade any time soon , so shouldnt we be helping them decide of fish that will be happy homed for life in that size tank


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

ridium said:


> it was me who said he shouldnt go with a 10" fish , and i stick by that , a yellow tang grows 6 to 7 " max , a mimic tang which was being touted grow to 10"
> 
> your claiming he will upgrade yet read his first post
> 
> ...


my bad- i thought some of the mimic tangs only grew to 4-5''. i was confusing them with bristletooth tangs, some of which do stay in that size range.


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## Scales123 (Aug 23, 2011)

me and my dad used to have a fowlr (fish only with live rock) it contained: 1 black trigger, 2 clownfish, 1 cleaner wrasse and a few damsels, the damsels killed the trigger and the wrasse, then the clowns..we put the damsels into a different tank (mine) to mature it, that was almost 6 years ago, last year the damsels died....

Dont get damsels!!!

well..yellow tail ones anyway


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Scales123 said:


> me and my dad used to have a fowlr (fish only with live rock) it contained: 1 black trigger, 2 clownfish, 1 cleaner wrasse and a few damsels, the damsels killed the trigger and the wrasse, then the clowns..we put the damsels into a different tank (mine) to mature it, that was almost 6 years ago, last year the damsels died....
> 
> Dont get damsels!!!
> 
> well..yellow tail ones anyway


I think 99% of everyone i've asked has told me not to get damsels.. so I don't think I will :lol2:


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## Scales123 (Aug 23, 2011)

hodgesa said:


> I think 99% of everyone i've asked has told me not to get damsels.. so I don't think I will :lol2:


good choice :2thumb:


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

ridium said:


> it was me who said he shouldnt go with a 10" fish , and i stick by that , a yellow tang grows 6 to 7 " max , a mimic tang which was being touted grow to 10"
> 
> your claiming he will upgrade yet read his first post
> 
> ...


I've never seen a 10 inch mimic tang either and neither have you. If you consider a yellow tang too big for your tank why are you after shark eggs ? seems a bit strange to me.


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

do you know how many tanks i have? do you know the size of my tanks? didnt think so , so please refrain from trying to start a flame war , and yes ive seen a mimic tang that was nearly 9 " which is way to big for his tank ,if i were to get like planned a Epaulette shark , it wouldnt be in anything less then a 6x2.5x2 aroiund 190gallons/850litres


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## davesbray (Feb 12, 2011)

its not so much the size the tangs get to, its also the bio-load they produce, and the swimming space they need. 90ltr is DEFINATELY too small for any tang IMO, i had a 3x2x2 (about 220ltrs) and although i really wanted a tang, the tank was too small. 

good show fish are fire blennys, gobies have good characters, some wrasses are absolutely stunning, i had a peacock wrasse and that is one dam sexy fish :mf_dribble:

i have a 20ltr marine tank (so far no fish but will be getting a pair of nano gobies) and a 50ltr mixed reef with 2 clowns, a bangaii cardinal and a spotted mandarin - have a look in my sig for some ideas, IMO 90 ltrs is definately not too small to keep a very successful reef :2thumb:


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Right, here is the plan then.

Im going to get a hang-on skimmer, probably the V2 nano (some input here would be great) and some powerheads to create surface movement for the gas exchange, and I'll use lots liverock and sand for the filtration. Once I've got these and got all the water in, I'll let it cycle for a while, then check the levels of nitrite, nitrate, pH, phosphorus, salt level etc before adding some inverts - probably a turbo snail of some sort and maybe a couple of blue hermits to keep the tank clean. Good so far?

Once they've settled I'll leave it another few weeks, do some more tests and if they are ok, my first fish will probably be a couple of clowns :2thumb:

Any input of changes I should make would be great - this is all from you guys' replies, and from other research I've done on the internet for first marine setups. One question though - is it best to add the corals first or fish then corals?

P.S my tank which I've just worked out on square feet to UK gallons to litres is actually around 106 litres, will this make much difference with anything?

Thanks :no1:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> Right, here is the plan then.
> 
> Im going to get a hang-on skimmer, probably the V2 nano (some input here would be great) and some powerheads to create surface movement for the gas exchange, and I'll use lots liverock and sand for the filtration. Once I've got these and got all the water in, I'll let it cycle for a while, then check the levels of nitrite, nitrate, pH, phosphorus, salt level etc before adding some inverts - probably a turbo snail of some sort and maybe a couple of blue hermits to keep the tank clean. Good so far?
> 
> ...


v2 nano is an internal skimmer, not a hang on. the kent nano is similar, but cheaper, & (i'm told) better. the red sea prizm is a hang on. your plan seems fine, but you can add the first fish as soon as the tests stay stable when you've added the first inverts. i've always added corals as & when i find ones i want, regardless of whether i'm still stocking with fish or not. btw, when everythings ok, i'd add 2 more turbo snails, & 2 or 3 more hermits.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> v2 nano is an internal skimmer, not a hang on. the kent nano is similar, but cheaper, & (i'm told) better. the red sea prizm is a hang on. your plan seems fine, but you can add the first fish as soon as the tests stay stable when you've added the first inverts. i've always added corals as & when i find ones i want, regardless of whether i'm still stocking with fish or not. btw, when everythings ok, i'd add 2 more turbo snails, & 2 or 3 more hermits.


Ok cool, thanks. :2thumb: One more question - do i add the water at the same time as the liverock, or add the water, leave it for a day or two and then add the liverock?

Cheers :no1:


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

Just to clarify, I'm about to purchase:
-the Newa Newatt 150W heater
-the Kent Marine Nano protein skimmer
-the Hydor Koralia Evoltion 2800LPH ciculation pump

is this ok? All for 106 litre tank.

Cheers :2thumb:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> Ok cool, thanks. :2thumb: One more question - do i add the water at the same time as the liverock, or add the water, leave it for a day or two and then add the liverock?
> 
> Cheers :no1:


you can do either.



hodgesa said:


> Just to clarify, I'm about to purchase:
> -the Newa Newatt 150W heater
> -the Kent Marine Nano protein skimmer
> -the Hydor Koralia Evoltion 2800LPH ciculation pump
> ...


that sounds spot on. the koralia nano pump is another option.


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## hexem (May 14, 2009)

I have a Kent bio reef 94 litres, at the moment it's been sitting for a week with salty water, best advise is to take thing's really slow, don't rush out and buy fish before you're tank has completely cycled, even then wait a bit longer, make sure all parameters are correct, you will need a test kit , I have the API salt water kit £21-30 depending on where you buy.

Also get a refractometer, the hydrometers are useless!


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

I haven't gotten round to doing anything with the tank yet, mainly coz there's still some confusion with what we are going to do, and how to go about it. So here are just my most important question:

(I have been advised by many people - as I have asked loads about the best way to set up a marine tank - to have a filter; I'm not contradicting anyone, but I've had a filter for every other tank I've had, and so would feel a bit more confident having one along with the liverock.) *If I include a large external filter, is there any need for the powerheads?*

Just a small question now - as my tank is relatively large, how do you mix the salt water? Shall I fill up the tank with RO water and then add the salt?

Sorry for all the questions I've been asking, you must think I am so annoying :lol2:

Thanks for all the help :2thumb: You guys rock.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

hodgesa said:


> I haven't gotten round to doing anything with the tank yet, mainly coz there's still some confusion with what we are going to do, and how to go about it. So here are just my most important question:
> 
> (I have been advised by many people - as I have asked loads about the best way to set up a marine tank - to have a filter; I'm not contradicting anyone, but I've had a filter for every other tank I've had, and so would feel a bit more confident having one along with the liverock.) *If I include a large external filter, is there any need for the powerheads?*
> 
> ...


the problem with having an actual filter alongside live rock, is that it will intensify the nitrification process & produce more nitrate than the live rock can remove (live rock removes nitrate via anaerobic filtration, as well as providing normal (nitrifying) filtration). 

you will still need powerheads- the flow provided by an external filter will not be strong enough.

i would mix the salt in the bucket, then add it to the tank- otherwise you may kill the live sand by pouring freshwater on it before adding salt.


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## discussam7 (Sep 10, 2011)

dont use a filter, just have lots of live rock, atleast 13 kg in your size tank, more live rock the better it will be filtered. then get 2 power heads.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

discussam7 said:


> dont use a filter, just have lots of live rock, atleast 13 kg in your size tank, more live rock the better it will be filtered. then get 2 power heads.


yep! the live rock is a complete filter system in itself- it nitrifies, then denitrifies.


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## hodgesa (Jan 8, 2011)

okey cokey  thanks guys


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

i use filter for a chemical filtration containing carbon phosphate remover filter floss and live rock rubble


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