# free roaming reptiles. monitors, tegus and iguanas



## raymaral (Feb 1, 2013)

After having a search on here I discovered that I can't find anything about free roaming reptiles. Last year I met a guy who has a tegu that free roams his house at all times, obviously weigh certain heat spots and when I was younger I knew someone with a free roaming iguana. Now I have my bosc monitor I've got to thinking whether it would benefit her in anyway to have her large enclosure but have it open so she can go in and out as she pleases. What are peoples opinions of free roaming reps. Pros and cons etc.


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## BeardedDee (May 26, 2010)

Pros - ?
Con - The heat and humidity will leave the enclosure left open. Ideas like this only benefit the keeper imo.


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## Rottalma (Dec 20, 2012)

Can only speak other peoples wisdom, i read an article a while back about slow deaths from dehydration in monitors (nile or sav if it matters, don't recall) due to people either not supplying adequate water/humidity by letting their animals roam. Not sure if your situation with a bosc would be at all similar as i know nothing about them).

It was explained something like this,:

1 when they exhale, water leaves the body
2 when inhaling, humidity in your living room is much lower than the exhalation.
3 repeat for months or years, slowly dehydrating.
4 dead monitor

Someone can confirm which species are susceptable and if indeed this is correct. As i said, this is just someone else's info, i have no clue.


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rottalma said:


> Can only speak other peoples wisdom, i read an article a while back about slow deaths from dehydration in monitors (nile or sav if it matters, don't recall) due to people either not supplying adequate water/humidity by letting their animals roam.
> 
> It was explained something like this,:
> 
> ...



All species ... : victory:


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## raymaral (Feb 1, 2013)

Wouldn't benefit me in slightest as id still plan on keeping the huge enclosure just wanted to know peoples opinions on doing it, just figure she would get more excercise if not restricted to the Viv so much, at moment she comes out for excercise quite a bit but keeping her from going under sofa is a nightmare, tbh I probably wouldn't do it as id worry about heat to much. even with basking spots set up around the place I know she would probably find somewhere there isn't alot of heat to hide in and the humidity wouldn't be right


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## Rottalma (Dec 20, 2012)

varanus87 said:


> All species ... : victory:


Does this mean i knew something? :2thumb:


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rottalma said:


> Does this mean i knew something? :2thumb:


Maybe ...:whistling2:


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Rottalma said:


> Can only speak other peoples wisdom, i read an article a while back about slow deaths from dehydration in monitors (nile or sav if it matters, don't recall) due to people either not supplying adequate water/humidity by letting their animals roam. Not sure if your situation with a bosc would be at all similar as i know nothing about them).
> 
> It was explained something like this,:
> 
> ...



But surely that is all just a red herring ,nothing to do with free roaming, merely not allowing the animal enough access to water for drinking and soaking.Owner mismanagement, nothing more


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## jawstheme (Jan 3, 2008)

true, but assuming you decide to free roam something like a large monitor lizard, the room is going to need a complete re-vamp. waterproof flooring/walls, drainage in the floor. an area with soil for burrowing. and some means of keeping the humidity up, as well as the room temperature.

essentially a very difficult/time consuming tasking... with only one benefit for the lizard - more space. which isnt really that much of a benefit if the lizard in question is already being housed in an appropriate sized vivarium. 

im not pro free roaming, its impractical and difficult to achieve without risking the animals welfare.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Graylord said:


> But surely that is all just a red herring ,nothing to do with free roaming, merely not allowing the animal enough access to water for drinking and soaking.Owner mismanagement, nothing more


Drinking limits the damage caused soaking does not help in the long term at all. 

And it does have to do with free roaming owing to inadequate temps humidiy lack of an ability to burrow. 

Soaking is next to useless they take in a limited amount of water through there cloaca. 

Respiration is how they lose 90% of there water if the air there breathing isnt right its detrimental to there well being. 

So yes it does have a lot to do with free roaming,

Since houses are not a monitor friendly environment.


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## Stivali (Apr 9, 2012)

Free roaming monitors is a great idea - ALL you need to do is;
1.Throw out TV, PC, sofa, table, sideboard, carpet, spouse and kids (if applicable).
2.Reinforce flooring and fit 18mm plyboard to floor.
3.Insulate room well (especially loft area and external walls)
4.Seal room with large amount of epoxy resin.
5.Ship in 14 tons of substrate and 100 pcs of cork bark.
6.Fit a dozen or so basking spots and an irrigation/misting system to keep the substrate moist.
7.Never move house.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

All my iguanas are semi free roamers, best part of the time when I am in the house I will open their vivs and allow them to roam, explore as they please (within certain areas at least) though this works nicely for me, none of them are forced to come out, they can come and go as they please, if they go back in or decide to stay in the enclosure doors will be closed again. 

Though this has so far cost me alot of money including laptop replacements, curtain polls, cups going flying, etc, so free roam oppurtunities are not all fun and games lol. 

My way of thinking with "big lizards" differs greatly from most common thought anyways, including humidity as an example so while most people are worrying about dehydrating their iguanas and keeping them constantly at 70-90% humidity, which imo is extreme overkill, I am probably keeping mine within a range of 40% with the occasional spike in humidity to 70-90% by misting heavily twice daily along with a shower, which (may be a little more than once daily when shedding) 

Hope that helps.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Iggies are different to monitors though. 

They dont spend hours at a time in burrows : victory:

There environment has large fluctuations in humidity.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Iggies are different to monitors though.
> 
> They dont spend hours at a time in burrows : victory:
> 
> There environment has large fluctuations in humidity.


Did I say anything about monitors?  which I could really go on a bit more about but I can't because I have an outdoor enclosure to build lol. 

the thread said free roaming reptiles, monitors, tegus and iguanas, so thought I would give my expirience, and opinion on iguanas, because they are what I mainly keep though I have had a few past monitors, I really don't feel the need to bring that up presently when just considering free roam oppurtunities (focussed on this threads name. and what I am keeping now mate. : victory:


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Did I say anything about monitors?  which I could really go on a bit more about but I can't because I have an outdoor enclosure to build lol.
> 
> the thread said free roaming reptiles, monitors, tegus and iguanas, so thought I would give my expirience, and opinion on iguanas, because they are what I mainly keep (focussed on this threads name. : victory:


i wanted to stress the difference :2thumb:


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

Think they can get enough exercise in the viv without the need to come out for exercise? Well at least I hope it is the case. I seen possibly mitsi witha rabbit run in the garden the other day when nice and her boscs in that which is fine for a period of time, I think letting them free roam serves no purpose really to them and do see threads about animals escaping due to free roaming was one recently about going under the floor of a house through a cooker or something similar, may have been a bosc infact.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Humidity and heat?? My bathroom would be perfect!!! That stays hot n humid for.hours after a long shower.. The extractor is crap... Or the insulation is amazing.. Can't decide which.. Lol. 

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## Stivali (Apr 9, 2012)

In a warm room full of vivs, House gecko's make excellent "free roamers"..



They like to watch the monitors too..


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> All my iguanas are semi free roamers, best part of the time when I am in the house I will open their vivs and allow them to roam, explore as they please (within certain areas at least) though this works nicely for me, none of them are forced to come out, they can come and go as they please, if they go back in or decide to stay in the enclosure doors will be closed again.
> 
> Though this has so far cost me alot of money including laptop replacements, curtain polls, cups going flying, etc, so free roam oppurtunities are not all fun and games lol.
> 
> ...


-

I agree,my Sailfins have the full room to themselves and the large water bath is outside the viv with a log from the viv to the water and a small opening for them to get out.I could not have such a large water container for them in the viv.Drinking water dish also in the viv.Also other logs in the room They can come and go as they please.They spend most of the time in the viv about an hour out of it normally first thing in the morning, but when I am in they come into the lounge area sometimes sit on my knee or on the windowsill in the sun.Always go back on there own.
You have got to make sure the room is lizard safe.It must be beneficial for them to run around,they can get up on there legs and run 40 odd feet from the lounge to the viv room,in a viv they cant run.
Think a lot depends on type of animal and whats in the room and how much time you are with them.



ps
(hope thats not come across as to arrogant :lol


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

My tegu used to scratch on the viv when she wanted out for a bit, so I'd open the glass, out she'd come. I'd leave the viv open so when she'd had enough she went back in herself and I'd shut it again.

Never had any problems doing that, leaving them out all the time would though I'd imagine.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

ghand said:


> -
> 
> I agree,my Sailfins have the full room to themselves and the large water bath is outside the viv with a log from the viv to the water and a small opening for them to get out.I could not have such a large water container for them in the viv.Drinking water dish also in the viv.Also other logs in the room They can come and go as they please.They spend most of the time in the viv about an hour out of it normally first thing in the morning, but when I am in they come into the lounge area sometimes sit on my knee or on the windowsill in the sun.Always go back on there own.
> You have got to make sure the room is lizard safe.It must be beneficial for them to run around,they can get up on there legs and run 40 odd feet from the lounge to the viv room,in a viv they cant run.
> ...


Sounds interesting, got any pics.of your set up?? Been thinking along similar ideas for.water dragons... 

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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

vukic said:


> Sounds interesting, got any pics.of your set up?? Been thinking along similar ideas for.water dragons...
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


I can take some pics if you like.You can maybe get the idea from this in the background, you can see two logs to the right of the viv they go down to a large water container which sits on a waterproof sheet along the radiator


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## tremerz97 (Nov 30, 2012)

ghand said:


> -
> 
> I agree,my Sailfins have the full room to themselves and the large water bath is outside the viv with a log from the viv to the water and a small opening for them to get out.I could not have such a large water container for them in the viv.Drinking water dish also in the viv.Also other logs in the room They can come and go as they please.They spend most of the time in the viv about an hour out of it normally first thing in the morning, but when I am in they come into the lounge area sometimes sit on my knee or on the windowsill in the sun.Always go back on there own.
> You have got to make sure the room is lizard safe.It must be beneficial for them to run around,they can get up on there legs and run 40 odd feet from the lounge to the viv room,in a viv they cant run.
> ...


you arrogant son of a :censor:! lol! but great point


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Yeah it's the Viv/pond setup that one really intrigued with.. You can see the logs.. Looks.good.. 

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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

TommyR said:


> Think they can get enough exercise in the viv without the need to come out for exercise? Well at least I hope it is the case. I seen possibly mitsi witha rabbit run in the garden the other day when nice and her boscs in that which is fine for a period of time, I think letting them free roam serves no purpose really to them and do see threads about animals escaping due to free roaming was one recently about going under the floor of a house through a cooker or something similar, may have been a bosc infact.


 
yeah they were mine in the run, just giving them some natural warm air, they were out for a bout half a hour, then went back in, the only other time they are out is if i need to check them over or when i put them in the bath on the odd occassion, they get loads of exercise in their viv, by chasing the crickets and locusts etc, and burrowing and trying to destroy everything in there lol, i dont see any other need for them to roam about the house, i know they are warm,safe and where i can keep my eye on them in the viv.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

Each of the animals mentioned needs to be dealt with differently but there would be general rules,

general requirements ,
each area to be used should have a daytime temp of min 80f and night say 65/70f plus basking spots in each room to be used.
to keep any of the subtropical species a humidifier would be needed, or the african species no humidifier but higher ambient temps.

subtropical species would benefit from a large water area.

all boscs, tegus and some monitors would need a large area of compacted soil to dig burrows, this soil should be moist but not wet.

all regions of the world that specifically green iguanas are found to my knowledge are subtropical and therefore rather humid one would take from that, that it is of some importance, i kept and bred them many years ago but i still remember that they shed better and had better skin when they were regularly misted and had a large water source. most footage i have seen of them usually involves them swimming at some point this would dictate they live near bodies of water. 

if animals are to come out of their vivs for short periods i dont think much of the above matters but for a 24/7 roamer your house would need to be very hot with a swimming pool and large piles of dirt in each corner of the room, if you want to do all that so your creature can come out and crap all over your house GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

TEG said:


> Each of the animals mentioned needs to be dealt with differently but there would be general rules,
> 
> general requirements ,
> each area to be used should have a daytime temp of min 80f and night say 65/70f plus basking spots in each room to be used.
> ...


Mmm not strictly true with all animals, i know I am repeating most of this but my Sailfin Dragons only ever make a mess in the water.They will come out of the viv into the water poo and climb back into the viv.Then i can just tip the water down the loo and refill it.They can roam 24/7 but choose not to.They will both be out either in the water or on the logs near the window when i get up at 8 ish but then just go back in soon after, then maybe come out for half an hour or an hour in the afternoon so its no big deal if the room is safe like no curtains they can climb up. Always both together these so called solitary animals LOL. Generally both come out together and go back together.If I leave the the viv room door open they will eventually come out into the lounge have a run round or maybe lie in the sun from the window for a while or jump up onto my chair and sit on me for a spell,then off back home.Never once made a mess in the lounge so I did GO FOR IT !!!!!!!!! LOL


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

vukic said:


> Sounds interesting, got any pics.of your set up?? Been thinking along similar ideas for.water dragons...
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


Thats the room they live in but when I am in they have the run of the lounge and hall also.Recently threw the sheet down to stop the carpet getting splashed but think I will remove it looks a bit crap.The other small tank has a box of soil in for now in case she wants to dig at egg time.They have a water tank each now :lol:


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

ghand said:


> Thats the room they live in but when I am in they have the run of the lounge and hall also.Recently threw the sheet down to stop the carpet getting splashed but think I will remove it looks a bit crap.The other small tank has a box of soil in for now in case she wants to dig at egg time.They have a water tank each now :lol:
> http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/ghand2/media/2013-05-09101457.jpg.htmlimage
> 
> http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/ghand2/media/2013-05-09101827.jpg.htmlimage


Nice thought and concept but why not just give them a bigger viv?


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Nice thought and concept but why not just give them a bigger viv?


Yes could do, its just cost and time at the moment and I could never make one as big as the rooms they have the run of. It just seems to work well for them at the moment, place to live, bask, eat, sleep and so on and plenty of room to run around in and also more interaction with me so they are not just show animals and I can handle them. Just renting at the moment so when I get my own place soon I will make a bigger viv,would still leave the door open though :lol: this seems ok at the moment for now. In the future I want a running water feature with filters and so on permanently connected to a water supply and a drain
And how many rep owners get to see there pets run full speed across a 22ft lounge the 6ft hall way and on into there own room,best exercised lizards I have seen for a while LOL


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

ghand said:


> Yes could do, its just cost and time at the moment and I could never make one as big as the rooms they have the run of. It just seems to work well for them at the moment, place to live, bask, eat, sleep and so on and plenty of room to run around in and also more interaction with me so they are not just show animals and I can handle them. Just renting at the moment so when I get my own place soon I will make a bigger viv,would still leave the door open though :lol: this seems ok at the moment for now. In the future I want a running water feature with filters and so on permanently connected to a water supply and a drain
> And how many rep owners get to see there pets run full speed across a 22ft lounge the 6ft hall way and on into there own room,best exercised lizards I have seen for a while LOL


 
A very honest and responsible answer matey your certainly doing more for them than most people. 

Ive seen those guys in some horrible enclosures.


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> A very honest and responsible answer matey your certainly doing more for them than most people.
> 
> Ive seen those guys in some horrible enclosures.


Cheers,its the best I can do at the moment LOL

Its the water I was concerned about,Sailfins and Water Dragons which are the only lizards I have had(snakes) love to be in deepish water,a drink dish only was not an option for me so this way they can get fully immersed and spend time in water they can move around in which i could not fit in the viv. I will do a larger viv in the future.
It may not be an option for other animals or situations but works for these critters.:lol:


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

How are you maintaining temps with the viv open? Letting heat escape the viv.


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

TommyR said:


> How are you maintaining temps with the viv open? Letting heat escape the viv.


If you look at the top sliding glass panel right hand side,that is the only bit that is normally open.It is slid shut up to the logs and a piece of clear thin plastic film covers the opening to within about 3 or 4 inch of the logs just secured from the top,as its thin it clings to the glass but the glass will still slide This only leaves a small opening for them to come and go and so no great heat loss from the cool side of the viv.Plus its never very cold in the room.It would be better with the small opening in the bottom section of glass as the heat rises but they seem to want to climb the logs all the time get in,if i leave the bottom open they still go up the logs.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

I am Very impressed that you get them to breed in that type of set up! how long have you had them ?


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

TEG said:


> I am Very impressed that you get them to breed in that type of set up! how long have you had them ?


Ha Ha no they don't breed, I never got them to breed.Just pets.The Male about 4 years the female is new a few month only
I suppose I could try putting any eggs in an incubator,I don't have one so would have to buy one and what would I do if they Hatched !!!! LOL I Do catch them at it sometimes when they are out of the viv,so its possible 
They seem to be very rare I could not find any for sale in this country and this new one was owned by a guy wanting the room for some Sailfin hatchlings he had just imported.

Why would they not breed in that type of set up ? Not clued up on breeding habits and set ups as was never the plan
but like I say they do Mate on a regular basis since she arrived.


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

ghand said:


> Ha Ha no they don't breed, I never got them to breed.Just pets.The Male about 4 years the female is new a few month only
> I suppose I could try putting any eggs in an incubator,I don't have one so would have to buy one and what would I do if they Hatched !!!! LOL I Do catch them at it sometimes when they are out of the viv,so its possible
> They seem to be very rare I could not find any for sale in this country and this new one was owned by a guy wanting the room for some Sailfin hatchlings he had just imported.
> 
> ...


It is very unlikely they would breed in that setup because it is not the correct setup for that species, not my opinion, Fact!
To my knowledge they are an indonesian species they need high ambient temperatures and very high humidity.They have evolved to the way they are now over millions of years in that habitat therefore they will not flourish in substandard temps and very low humidity. They are going from a high heat with almost no humidity to a much colder temperature with again very little humidity , this would never be the case in their native environment(Bosc monitors will live for ten years in a dry hot viv but it does not mean it is correct, humans eat too much junk food and look how thats working out!!!!). they have to come out of the viv to find a water source, that should be a basic requirement in the viv and they have to go to the window sill or your lap to find a heat source. They are probably wild caught animals and as such will never be domesticated whatever you believe. Most reptiles poo in their waterbowl if one is available this happens probably due to the temperature change when they enter the water (similar to when we go out in cold weather and need to pee more!!!! ) if you have had one of these for four years it should be your responsibility as a keeper to research the species and subsequently either give the animal what it needs or keep a species better suited to what you can achieve at the time . i have always wanted a captive bred cheetah but i know that i can not give it what it needs so it would be wrong to have one at the moment.

i am in no doubt you love your animals but they are not being kept in the optimum conditions and this is wrong, they need to be in a 10x4x6 enclosure at least with a filtered pool and possibly moving water to aid humidity, they would also benefit from a misting system.

Again i am sorry that it sounds like i am having a go but i have to say if i think something is wrong, i would not stand by if someone was mistreating a dog and i will not say nothing if i know that what they are doing is not in the animals best interest.


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

TEG said:


> It is very unlikely they would breed in that setup because it is not the correct setup for that species, not my opinion, Fact!
> To my knowledge they are an indonesian species they need high ambient temperatures and very high humidity.They have evolved to the way they are now over millions of years in that habitat therefore they will not flourish in substandard temps and very low humidity. They are going from a high heat with almost no humidity to a much colder temperature with again very little humidity , this would never be the case in their native environment(Bosc monitors will live for ten years in a dry hot viv but it does not mean it is correct, humans eat too much junk food and look how thats working out!!!!). they have to come out of the viv to find a water source, that should be a basic requirement in the viv and they have to go to the window sill or your lap to find a heat source. They are probably wild caught animals and as such will never be domesticated whatever you believe. Most reptiles poo in their waterbowl if one is available this happens probably due to the temperature change when they enter the water (similar to when we go out in cold weather and need to pee more!!!! ) if you have had one of these for four years it should be your responsibility as a keeper to research the species and subsequently either give the animal what it needs or keep a species better suited to what you can achieve at the time . i have always wanted a captive bred cheetah but i know that i can not give it what it needs so it would be wrong to have one at the moment.
> 
> i am in no doubt you love your animals but they are not being kept in the optimum conditions and this is wrong, they need to be in a 10x4x6 enclosure at least with a filtered pool and possibly moving water to aid humidity, they would also benefit from a misting system.
> ...


They are already "breeding" if they're mating?? :-S the set up can't be that bad other wise... From.what I can understand is the Viv does have everything they need.. The extra features are just that.. Extra... It's.just a playground for them.. With two large pool ares and extra space from what the pics display... 

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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I would love to know where this brilliant line of thought comes from that animals must be healthy if they are breeding? 

Ill animals breed all the time, we see this daily in the lizard section, they will breed in a last "ditch effort to pass on genes" it is survival nothing more or less than that.

The results of the babies on the other hand? 
Husbandry is subjective and varible, and I am a beleiver in not trying to fix what isn't broken, as long as peoples care routines are working nicely for them, it is not up to anyone on here to shove their "view" "opinion" or the facts at them unesscerily, if they asked for advice on the other hand? maybe that is different. 

His setup is fine, his justifcations are fine, and his animals are fine.

If you do something any other way, to what someone else "thinks" your somehow wrong, I know people like to hightlight risks, (somoene posts a pic) why are you using sand? kinda thing, they done their research, they assessed the risks, made observations and informed choices and put it together , but when its not asked for, I don't see the need to go on about it, it is not up to anyone on here to tell someoene else how to care for their  animals, when peoples opinions are thrown at particular issues, its not suprising your going to see some defensive reactions, it is very insulting to their knowledge, as a wise person on this forum once said, "common thought doesn't make something a fact, or means it can't be done. If they ask for advice then thats different.


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

TEG said:


> It is very unlikely they would breed in that setup because it is not the correct setup for that species, not my opinion, Fact!
> To my knowledge they are an indonesian species they need high ambient temperatures and very high humidity.They have evolved to the way they are now over millions of years in that habitat therefore they will not flourish in substandard temps and very low humidity. They are going from a high heat with almost no humidity to a much colder temperature with again very little humidity , this would never be the case in their native environment(Bosc monitors will live for ten years in a dry hot viv but it does not mean it is correct, humans eat too much junk food and look how thats working out!!!!). they have to come out of the viv to find a water source, that should be a basic requirement in the viv and they have to go to the window sill or your lap to find a heat source. They are probably wild caught animals and as such will never be domesticated whatever you believe. Most reptiles poo in their waterbowl if one is available this happens probably due to the temperature change when they enter the water (similar to when we go out in cold weather and need to pee more!!!! ) if you have had one of these for four years it should be your responsibility as a keeper to research the species and subsequently either give the animal what it needs or keep a species better suited to what you can achieve at the time . i have always wanted a captive bred cheetah but i know that i can not give it what it needs so it would be wrong to have one at the moment.
> 
> i am in no doubt you love your animals but they are not being kept in the optimum conditions and this is wrong, they need to be in a 10x4x6 enclosure at least with a filtered pool and possibly moving water to aid humidity, they would also benefit from a misting system.
> ...


Interesting stuff.Oh and also wrong on so many points :lol: Well first do you know the temp and humidity of the viv ? Did you know they have a large water dish almost under a 40 watt spot in the viv (come out for water,Wrong) which keeps the humidity high along with regular spraying and soaking of the logs under the other spot. I can set the temp to what I want. its generally at 85(substandard temps Wrong) in the top section warm end and lower towards the right of the tank and slightly lower in the bottom one side of which has heat pads under the substrate the other a 40 watt spot.Basking temp log is well up again I can set this to what I want by raising or lowering the spot.Two uvb s one fluo one compact.So I set the temp and humidity and basking spot to what the book says, thats all I can do. The room is always warm with two well watered plants that get sprayed when the viv gets done two or three times a day, a large water tank along the radiator 3ftx2.5ft and one in the sun from the window.I generally put 3 to 4 inch of water in any more it gets a bit heavy LOL Oh it will not need filtering(wrong again) as it gets changed twice a day or straight after they poo in it. (the joys of being retired at 55 LOL) The humidity in the room is generally 45 plus measured on top of the tank with a room temp of 65/70 ish, but the animals can stay as long or as short a time as they want in the room.
Maybe you can do better for them? The pet shop did not and could not sell them.I think they are better off with me than in the shop.Four to five years on he seems fine and healthy. The female seems to have had a hard life looking at her scars and bits of tail spines missing and lumps but I will do all I can to keep her healthy.Temp,humidity,food is all by the book.If you think they are being mistreated I would happily take any practical advice into consideration.Any suggestions apart from putting them back in the wild where they have never been as they are captive bred I will take on board.
May be you would rather i left them in the pet shop to die? 
I did all the research i could(wrong again) before I decided to do a "rescue" read all I could find and made a set up to cover it best I could. 
So you did not even get close on most points but I look forward to seeing your advice above and beyond what the book says i should be doing.A larger viv will be 3 to 4 months off.

"not in optimum conditions" well neither am I but i have lasted this long LOL

A lot of folk seem to forget the places some animals come from differ a great deal in temp and humidity from one area to another,from day to day and season to season its not all text book numbers set in stone.we can all get to hung up on exact numbers.

Show me this mythical place that has all the temps and humidity's set all year round right across the living area and habitats of these animals.It would be more natural for the temps and humidity to change.

So I look forward to some advice on how I can improve things now you know how it works



Oh and I have a pet cheetah LOL


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## Ratamahata (Oct 16, 2012)

ghand said:


> Interesting stuff.Oh and also wrong on so many points :lol: Well first do you know the temp and humidity of the viv ? Did you know they have a large water dish almost under a 40 watt spot in the viv (come out for water,Wrong) which keeps the humidity high along with regular spraying and soaking of the logs under the other spot. I can set the temp to what I want. its generally at 85(substandard temps Wrong) in the top section warm end and lower towards the right of the tank and slightly lower in the bottom one side of which has heat pads under the substrate the other a 40 watt spot.Basking temp log is well up again I can set this to what I want by raising or lowering the spot.Two uvb s one fluo one compact.So I set the temp and humidity and basking spot to what the book says, thats all I can do. The room is always warm with two well watered plants that get sprayed when the viv gets done two or three times a day, a large water tank along the radiator 3ftx2.5ft and one in the sun from the window.I generally put 3 to 4 inch of water in any more it gets a bit heavy LOL Oh it will not need filtering(wrong again) as it gets changed twice a day or straight after they poo in it. (the joys of being retired at 55 LOL) The humidity in the room is generally 45 plus measured on top of the tank with a room temp of 65/70 ish, but the animals can stay as long or as short a time as they want in the room.
> Maybe you can do better for them? The pet shop did not and could not sell them.I think they are better off with me than in the shop.Four to five years on he seems fine and healthy. The female seems to have had a hard life looking at her scars and bits of tail spines missing and lumps but I will do all I can to keep her healthy.Temp,humidity,food is all by the book.If you think they are being mistreated I would happily take any practical advice into consideration.Any suggestions apart from putting them back in the wild where they have never been as they are captive bred I will take on board.
> May be you would rather i left them in the pet shop to die?
> I did all the research i could(wrong again) before I decided to do a "rescue" read all I could find and made a set up to cover it best I could.
> ...


And the crowd goes wild!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vukic (Apr 9, 2010)

Ratamahata said:


> And the crowd goes wild!!!!!!!!!!!!


ROAR!!!!!!

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

ghand said:


> Interesting stuff.Oh and also wrong on so many points :lol: Well first do you know the temp and humidity of the viv ? Did you know they have a large water dish almost under a 40 watt spot in the viv (come out for water,Wrong) which keeps the humidity high along with regular spraying and soaking of the logs under the other spot. I can set the temp to what I want. its generally at 85(substandard temps Wrong) in the top section warm end and lower towards the right of the tank and slightly lower in the bottom one side of which has heat pads under the substrate the other a 40 watt spot.Basking temp log is well up again I can set this to what I want by raising or lowering the spot.Two uvb s one fluo one compact.So I set the temp and humidity and basking spot to what the book says, thats all I can do. The room is always warm with two well watered plants that get sprayed when the viv gets done two or three times a day, a large water tank along the radiator 3ftx2.5ft and one in the sun from the window.I generally put 3 to 4 inch of water in any more it gets a bit heavy LOL Oh it will not need filtering(wrong again) as it gets changed twice a day or straight after they poo in it. (the joys of being retired at 55 LOL) The humidity in the room is generally 45 plus measured on top of the tank with a room temp of 65/70 ish, but the animals can stay as long or as short a time as they want in the room.
> Maybe you can do better for them? The pet shop did not and could not sell them.I think they are better off with me than in the shop.Four to five years on he seems fine and healthy. The female seems to have had a hard life looking at her scars and bits of tail spines missing and lumps but I will do all I can to keep her healthy.Temp,humidity,food is all by the book.If you think they are being mistreated I would happily take any practical advice into consideration.Any suggestions apart from putting them back in the wild where they have never been as they are captive bred I will take on board.
> May be you would rather i left them in the pet shop to die?
> I did all the research i could(wrong again) before I decided to do a "rescue" read all I could find and made a set up to cover it best I could.
> ...


 

Firstly i hope you and the cheetah are well!!! dont forget to walk it as much as possible:lol2:

i never meant to cause any upset to you and i did not see the small water dish in the tank for that i apologise however ,the fact remains that with an open tank you will lose heat and more importantly humidity. spraying regularly is fine but you will have a "spike " for about 30 mins then it will drop again. the room temps and humidity are too low . As you did do plenty of research you will know that their requirements are an ambient temp in the mid 80s and a humidity level between 70 and 90%, by your own admission the room is no where near that.
i also totally agree that all climates vary daily but indonesia is much more constant than most, temps change very little throughout the year but humidity rises from a low of 70% to a high of 90% during peak rain seasons, so that Mythical place you seek is just a plane ride away!!

i am glad you are looking at a new enclosure in the near future and if i can help in any way i gladly will, and if we are still on speaking terms i would like you to come to my house and see some of my walk in enclosures that may assist in ideas for your build.

i never wish to upset anyone as life is too short to make enemies but i care passionatly about all animals and their husbandry.


if you would like to visit pm me.
tim


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

vukic said:


> ROAR!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2



Are we entertaining you !!!

Get back to work LOL


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

TEG said:


> Firstly i hope you and the cheetah are well!!! dont forget to walk it as much as possible:lol2:
> 
> i never meant to cause any upset to you and i did not see the small water dish in the tank for that i apologise however ,the fact remains that with an open tank you will lose heat and more importantly humidity. spraying regularly is fine but you will have a "spike " for about 30 mins then it will drop again. the room temps and humidity are too low . As you did do plenty of research you will know that their requirements are an ambient temp in the mid 80s and a humidity level between 70 and 90%, by your own admission the room is no where near that.
> i also totally agree that all climates vary daily but indonesia is much more constant than most, temps change very little throughout the year but humidity rises from a low of 70% to a high of 90% during peak rain seasons, so that Mythical place you seek is just a plane ride away!!
> ...


No problem I like a bit of banter LOL
Still do not agree the humidity in the tank is about right the heat loss is very small through a hole 4"x4" and the temps spot on. The room humidity is not of concern as they are not out longer than an hour ,its 52% with a temp of 75 as we speak in the room.
WE would all like massive walk in vivs but thats what a zoo if for, this is a house pet set up.

Take it you breed.

Also the animals in these country's live at the extremes of the habitat zones as well as in the ideal positions. They have no sign post which says stay on this side of the mountain range as the rain fall is 80% less on the other side and its cooler.They can and do live and survive on the edges of typical lizard terrain without text book temps and humidity's I think the set up is as good as i can get in the house and the animals seem to be very healthy 

We will have to agree to disagree :lol:

Advice on mods to my set up would be fine but I can not make a Zoo type set up for house pets like you have .

Oh and I don't do upset,you would know if you did upset me.LOL I like a good debate.we are all entitled to our own opinion.


Dam the cheetah has just eaten next doors cat LOL


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

One thing I've often thought of is, bare with me...




freestanding parrot style bird perch with a heat source over the top thus allowing basking and heat in the living room when out.


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

ghand said:


> No problem I like a bit of banter LOL
> Still do not agree the humidity in the tank is about right the heat loss is very small through a hole 4"x4" and the temps spot on. The room humidity is not of concern as they are not out longer than an hour ,its 52% with a temp of 75 as we speak in the room.
> WE would all like massive walk in vivs but thats what a zoo if for, this is a house pet set up.
> 
> ...


This mythical place is not a plane ride away. Indonesia that you speak of has a mountain range that has frost at times on the mid slopes and snow on the peaks Average temps for the year are 23 to 28 in general but can get higher and lower 

My dragons come from the Philippines, deyathinkhesorus "Pustulatus" The mountain areas of which can drop to 18/19 degrees average over the whole year is 20 to 30 

Bigger range than my Lizards would see and like I say they can live at the extreams of there habitat and have no thermostats. LOL


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## TEG (Feb 4, 2010)

As you say we will have to agree to disagree but please look after the cheetah!!!!!!!!
All the best


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## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

ghand said:


> This mythical place is not a plane ride away. Indonesia that you speak of has a mountain range that has frost at times on the mid slopes and snow on the peaks Average temps for the year are 23 to 28 in general but can get higher and lower
> 
> My dragons come from the Philippines, deyathinkhesorus "Pustulatus" The mountain areas of which can drop to 18/19 degrees average over the whole year is 20 to 30
> 
> Bigger range than my Lizards would see and like I say they can live at the extreams of there habitat and have no thermostats. LOL


i can understand what your saying but the exstreams of natural is not what is needed in captivity we should aim to give them the BEST possible temps/humidity so on. I know for a fact a nile monitor can stand temps as low as 10'c for over 24hrs without any longterm issues (my one has :whistling2

the bad days in the wild don't last long. so lets say the humidity drops in the wild to 50% (way below the average low) it will likely only last a few days, then back upto 70% right upto 95% on the top end of rain season. 

in a house however your going to do it the wrong way around:

50% (if your lucky) all the time with the odd 30mins of 75% (from misting) making the said animal have to deal with the exstream for almost the whole time rather than just a few days a year. asking for longterm problems i say that way : victory:


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

Let's not forget that while there may be extremes in any given environment reptiles will avoid them at every given opportunity. So if they don't use them, why provide them?


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Whosthedaddy said:


> One thing I've often thought of is, bare with me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen these used before ... Don't think it is something I would go for myself but I have seen them ......

Now onto the main subject ..... Not aimed at u daddy ....

I feel that if u are going to buy a sp them maybe and just maybe the research should tell u that if u can't afford or don't have the space for the animal and u maybe are resorting to below par husbandry techniques then maybe u should reconsider having the animal or get it all ready so that it doesn't need to free roam but has an almost perfect setup for its large viv .... And have out of viv time as a occasional thing or an enrichment purpose and this Is meant with no disrespect to anyone just my opinion in the matter .... 


Viv is the free roam in my view 

Out of the viv enrichment ....:2thumb:

I have had to move my animals on because of this fact so I knw how hard the decision is to think about moving an animal because of viv sizes but I felt it right to do so for the animals welfare and not my own selfish needs .... :bash: my 2 pennies


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

I've read about people having free roaming chameleons before, with plants just stacked in the corner. Surely that would be crap for the cham due to lack of humidity and sufficient heat?


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

bampoisongirl said:


> I've read about people having free roaming chameleons before, with plants just stacked in the corner. Surely that would be crap for the cham due to lack of humidity and sufficient heat?


But it's only a Cham ....:whistling2:


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

varanus87 said:


> But it's only a Cham ....:whistling2:


That's not nice :lol2:


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

varanus87 said:


> I've seen these used before ... Don't think it is something I would go for myself but I have seen them ......
> 
> Now onto the main subject ..... Not aimed at u daddy ....
> 
> ...


Oh No not another "do the research" LOL have you read the other posts ?

Always planned to have a bigger viv. from new they got lost in the 4x4x2.5 viv on sort of two levels creating more room in the same space if you know what I mean and could swim in the tank in the viv.Now full grown I have moved the "main tank" outside for some" enrichment" Tank set up is fine and they pop out of a 75 to 85 deg 70 odd % h tank into a 70 deg 45/55 h room for a run and splash for half an hour or less then they go back on there own. or a quick run into the 70 degree lounge and back.
ITS NO BIG DEAL GUYS 

Even in the bigger viv they will always be able to go for a wonder if they wish 

I just don't know how they survive the abuse LOL


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

ghand said:


> Oh No not another "do the research" LOL have you read the other posts ?
> 
> Always planned to have a bigger viv. from new they got lost in the 4x4x2.5 viv and could swim in the tank in the viv.Now full grown I have moved the "main tank" outside for some" enrichment" Tank set up is fine and they pop out of a 75 to 85 deg 70 odd % h tank into a 70 deg 45/55 h room for a run and splash for half an hour or less then they go back on there own. or a quick run into the 70 degree lounge and back.
> ITS NO BIG DEAL GUYS
> ...


Just my opinion sweetness .....: victory:


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

varanus87 said:


> just my opinion sweetness .....: Victory:


lol..


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

If everyone was the same it would be a pretty boring world, unfortunately I have yet to see a care sheet give any actual facts yet, but that is by the by, . :whistling2:

Moving on....


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> If everyone was the same it would be a pretty boring world, unfortunately I have yet to see a care sheet give any actual facts yet, but that is by the by, . :whistling2:
> 
> Moving on....


There's a couple of good uns in the monitor FAQ :whistling2:


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> There's a couple of good uns in the monitor FAQ :whistling2:


don't try to catch me out you  :whip: :whistling2: lol.


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## davidian (Jul 7, 2009)

my iggie is semi free roaming and it works out great for her. i have a 6x4x2 viv which is adequate but it has additional sliding glass at the bottom meaning i can leave a gap of less than a ft2 open most of the time so she can come and go as she pleases (she gets cranky and scratches at the glass if i close the iggie flap!!). i do have the benefit of a conservatory which also houses the tumble dryer, which gives her a warm (and often humid) place to go in the afternoons if she wants.

i also own a bosc (although he's a baby and i'm having some issues which i'm about to post about seperatly) i'd like to think that once he's bigger he'll benefit from some extended time out and about (thinking of including an actual cat flap when i build his big boy tank).

so in my opinion Viv first, safe play area second but are a great option for enrichment, exercise and enjoyment for yourself - my iggie coming for a cuddle and a fuss of her own accord makes me think i'm keeping her happy


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-care-sheets/839624-monitor-faq.html

Please read that


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## davidian (Jul 7, 2009)

ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-care-sheets/839624-monitor-faq.html
> 
> Please read that



Thanks Shane, i'd read these post before i bought him last summer. 

Everything's been going really well since then but the last few weeks he's become very lethargic (he doesn't even huff and puff at me when i first go in the tank) and gone off his food!!! (very worrying!). 

i'll post separately, and your input will be greatly received but i can see a trip to the vets coming on


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

davidian said:


> my iggie is semi free roaming and it works out great for her. i have a 6x4x2 viv which is adequate but it has additional sliding glass at the bottom meaning i can leave a gap of less than a ft2 open most of the time so she can come and go as she pleases (she gets cranky and scratches at the glass if i close the iggie flap!!). i do have the benefit of a conservatory which also houses the tumble dryer, which gives her a warm (and often humid) place to go in the afternoons if she wants.
> 
> i also own a bosc (although he's a baby and i'm having some issues which i'm about to post about seperatly) i'd like to think that once he's bigger he'll benefit from some extended time out and about (thinking of including an actual cat flap when i build his big boy tank).
> 
> so in my opinion Viv first, safe play area second but are a great option for enrichment, exercise and enjoyment for yourself - my iggie coming for a cuddle and a fuss of her own accord makes me think i'm keeping her happy


Nice one, It works for me and mine and its not like they are out long,mine soon go back in.I have the opening covered with a thin sheet of clear polythene down to about 6" from the bottom leaving only 6"x6" hole for less heat and humidity loss.Worth trying maybe,just secure the top of it and it clings to the glass or just damp the edge and it sticks to the glass.May work for your new set up.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

No idea why this post ended up on this thread....


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