# Bulloxer pups..oddball



## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

One of the male pups is odd..he has a really thick heavy coat..he is a big boy with the Boxer cone shaped head but is pretty hairy..any thoughts any one..mum has not been near another male..really odd
I have seen a huge Rottie with long hair, it looked like an Orangutan lol!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

this happened to neil once..pm him?

are you 100% sure mum hasnt mated with any other dog?

and can we see a picture? LOL


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> this happened to neil once..pm him?
> 
> are you 100% sure mum hasnt mated with any other dog?
> 
> and can we see a picture? LOL


Will do..she def hasnt been with another male..he just has a thick coat lol!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

I DEMAND pictures...right now! (stamps foot)


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> I DEMAND pictures...right now! (stamps foot)


lol! heres Frank or cone head :lol2:









Heres one of two girls I'm thinking on keeping


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

OMG OMG!
(flaps hands about in a suitably girly fashion)
thats such a fuzzy little hair ball... and yes by golly, he does indeed have a conical head...
making him a furry cone!


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> OMG OMG!
> (flaps hands about in a suitably girly fashion)
> thats such a fuzzy little hair ball... and yes by golly, he does indeed have a conical head...
> making him a furry cone!


Getting big arent they..3 and a half weeks :lol2:
He def has the Boxer head but fluffy :2thumb:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

he is a chunky little bugger!
pics of the others or they dont exist! LOL

i cannot wait to see what they look like at 8-10 weeks.
i'll bet youre well chuffed!


squeee... shes lovely....


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> he is a chunky little bugger!
> pics of the others or they dont exist! LOL
> 
> i cannot wait to see what they look like at 8-10 weeks.
> ...


Lol will post pics up later as they are all sleeping..getting wee monsters now..Franks odd isnt he..their are a couple with thicker coats but not like him.
I am torn between this wee girl & another, both very similiar but this girl is the smallest but def the boss :lol2:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

always the way:whistling2:

brodie is a little fire cracker when she wants to be... bosses gus of she gets chance..LOL


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Another pic of Frank


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I like them hairy :flrt:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

jnr said:


> lol! heres Frank or cone head :lol2:
> image
> 
> Heres one of two girls I'm thinking on keeping
> ...


Oh dear, a vet trip on the cards huh? Thats not right.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Oh dear, a vet trip on the cards huh? Thats not right.


 
Totally agree, his head shape isnt normal and he appears to have muscle wastage around his skull


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Oh dear, a vet trip on the cards huh? Thats not right.


Oh dear..another silly misinformed post..a trip to the silly corner is on the cards..comments not right as usual..Teh heh!
Boxer pups have high domed skulls..perfectly normal ..Whats not right?..It is quite clear that you regard yourself as a know all..in this case you obviously know nothing...This is a sought after trait in choosing a Boxer pup..I guess you think you are an expert in all things..Not today.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...oQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNGmx6eqPDCWc63EhKoNADZL73FMtg



Shell195 said:


> Totally agree, his head shape isnt normal and he appears to have muscle wastage around his skull


Do you know what your talking about..his head shape is quite normal..hahaha where are you getting muscle wastage around his skull..do you suffer from this ailment?

Gave you a link each..Dome heads are common & sought after in Boxer pups...Thank you both for your illinformed posts..


http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNG_nhIA1wfDGpe9p_usuyHXo-4gVA


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

jnr said:


> Do you know what your talking about..his head shape is quite normal..hahaha where are you getting muscle wastage around his skull..do you suffer from this ailment?
> 
> Gave you a link each..Dome heads are common & sought after in Boxer pups...Thank you both for your illinformed posts..
> 
> ...


Cute pups that little girl is lovely, you have to admit a cone head like that looks really weird though, especially to those of us who know nothing about boxers.
In regards to the hairy pup i sort of vaguely remember apup called enigma i think it was, but this was ages ago and my memory is rubbish so I'm probably wrong lol.

But in regards to muscle wastage, this is a quote from the second link you put up

' Before my old boxer, Max, died, he lost alot of weight and muscle tone. The muscles on his head shrank, and you could see the cone once more - though further back. I thought he had a growth, it 'stuck out' so much! But it was just that the muscles no longer filled out the valleys in the bones'

So it's not as crazy a comment as you implied to be fair.


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Esarosa said:


> Cute pups that little girl is lovely, you have to admit a cone head like that looks really weird though, especially to those of us who know nothing about boxers.
> In regards to the hairy pup i sort of vaguely remember apup called enigma i think it was, but this was ages ago and my memory is rubbish so I'm probably wrong lol.
> 
> But in regards to muscle wastage, this is a quote from the second link you put up
> ...


Thank you., the pups are all coming along nicely, for a first time breeder every thing has gone well I am pleased to say, it has been a learning curve.
Forums never cease to amaze me, why some continualy feel the need to post negative comments is beyond me. As you have quite rightly stated cone heads must look odd to those who know nothing about the subject regards Boxers..however if this is the case why comment?
The comments you are reffering to are in relation to severe weight loss on a terminaly ill adult. These puppys are 3.5 weeks old the dome is perfectly normal in youngsters..I'm sorry but stating the pup has muscle wastage around its skull is ridiculous in this case, the puppies skulls change as they grow, as adults the dome is not so evident than it is on a very young pup.
I posted this thread in relation to the wee guys coat not the shape of his head, I am perfectly happy with the cone shape to his head, half of the pups are exhibiting the high dome to their heads, the others are showing the American bulldog shaped head this is shown on the pic of the little female, she has a bull head.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

In this case I agree jnr.... I thought the cone head shape looked weird, it reminds me of a baby that's been delivered with 'ventouse'. You clearly said it was a boxer head though so I googled it rather than comenting about it looking abnormal. 

I'd like to see what the long-haired one looked like all grown up.


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

em_40 said:


> In this case I agree jnr.... I thought the cone head shape looked weird, it reminds me of a baby that's been delivered with 'ventouse'. You clearly said it was a boxer head though so I googled it rather than comenting about it looking abnormal.
> 
> I'd like to see what the long-haired one looked like all grown up.


Thanks..It only takes a minute to google : victory:
Hopefully I will be able to keep in contact with his new owner, I would love to see him grow, he is going to be a big boy :2thumb:


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Just discovered that you do get long haired American bulldogs, from what I have read its a rare gene carried by the female..intresting


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

I read that it was a recessive gene that had to be carried by both


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## Lizard Loft (Mar 1, 2008)

jnr said:


> Just discovered that you do get long haired American bulldogs, from what I have read its a rare gene carried by the female..intresting


Great look pups nice big and healthy : victory: 



em_40 said:


> I read that it was a recessive gene that had to be carried by both


i would have thought it to be a recessive gene myself as most 'rare' genes are if it is carried by just the female and not the male, it would have to be dominant and would show up in more pups and more often through out the breed.


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Lizard Loft said:


> Great look pups nice big and healthy : victory:
> 
> 
> 
> i would have thought it to be a recessive gene myself as most 'rare' genes are if it is carried by just the female and not the male, it would have to be dominant and would show up in more pups and more often through out the breed.


Thanks ..pups have all been feeding well for the last week or so..all are very healthy
I havn't found any info other than its caused by a rare gene carried by the female..their are 3 in the litter that have thicker coats including this boy, not as heavy as this boy but def heavier than the others..wondering if the Boxer carried the white gene..if it is a recessive thing maybe the white gene reacts with the mums hidden gene..Their are breeders that breed for the long haired AM bulls..weird


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I know that the cone head is common in boxers but i would still get him checked out. I would want to be more safe than sorry. Maybe its just my panicky side lol


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

jnr said:


> Oh dear..another silly misinformed post..a trip to the silly corner is on the cards..comments not right as usual..Teh heh!
> Boxer pups have high domed skulls..perfectly normal ..Whats not right?..It is quite clear that you regard yourself as a know all..in this case you obviously know nothing...This is a sought after trait in choosing a Boxer pup..I guess you think you are an expert in all things..Not today.
> 
> Pointy Headed Puppy - Boxer Board
> ...


Yes, pure Boxer puppies do have a conical shape to their skull, as their occiput is more pronounced, but not THAT pronounced!

And no, I don't think im a know-it-all, & have never made out that I do, unlike some.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

the long coat gene in other breeds/animals is normaly ressive, so a pup would need two copies to have a long coat. So both mum and dad would have to carry it as they have to give one copy each.


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## JPP (Jun 8, 2009)

i know someone with a boxer x american bulldog and he is a huge bouncing monster but soft as shite 

would be interesting to see a hairy one :lol2:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

see to me on the second picture it doesn't look quite as pronounced. I know in human babies born by vontouse the swelling and the cone can take many, many weeks to go down as the head shape changes and the bones move about...maybe thats the case with bulldogs...i dont know?

also, i will add that our Old tyme pup brodie has a narrow face which at times looks a bit too narrow but she is still growing and they do tend to fill out later in the face do bull breeds (or so i've found)

any who... I'm sure all will be fine but you learn something new everyday...i had nop idea boxers had this trait in puppy hood.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

on some boxer forums i have just been looking at they say the bigger the cone the better the head at the end.
in fact they positively rave about it!


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## Lizard Loft (Mar 1, 2008)

jnr said:


> Thanks ..pups have all been feeding well for the last week or so..all are very healthy
> I havn't found any info other than its caused by a rare gene carried by the female..their are 3 in the litter that have thicker coats including this boy, not as heavy as this boy but def heavier than the others..wondering if the Boxer carried the white gene..if it is a recessive thing maybe the white gene reacts with the mums hidden gene..Their are breeders that breed for the long haired AM bulls..weird


The type of gene reaction your refering to is called *Co-dominance *and dogs have many genes that do this such as their coats being more then one colour, such as a white dog mates with a balck dog and you might get black and white pup/s as in this instance neither gene dominates the other. However im unsure as whether or not coat length and colour are linked in such a way. 

I dont know if you know the basics of how genetics work? if you do then im sorry for this bit of my post lol, 

coat length is usually defined in three ways, 

*Wirehair - *Dominant over Shorthair and Longhair
*Shorthair - *Dominant over Longhair recessive to Wirehair
*Longhair* - Recessive to Wirehair and Shorthair

Now judging by the fact both parent dogs im assuming have short hair? im assuming were dealing with lets say *Shorthair *and *Longhair*...

If this is the case and only one parent has the gene for longhair she would be represented as *S/L *and the male who doesnt have the gene would be represented as *S/S*...

now *S/S* + *S/L* = Half the pups would be *S/L* and half *S/L*, and as short hair is dominant over long all pups would have short hair. 

however if we say the male also has the longhair gene he would then be an *S/L*

and an *S/L* + *S/L* = Half of the pups would be *S/L* (shorthair) a quarter of pups would be *S/S* (shorthair) and the other quarter would be *L/L* (longhaired), 

Now those figured are based on probability, so you have a 50% of *S/L* shorthairs a 25% chance of *S/S* shorthairs and a 25% of *L/L* longhairs, on each pup! and you can end up with and entire litter of longhairs or 3 long hairs one short hair, vise versa, etc etc, 

hope that makes some sort of sense? its what i remember from when i did a little animal gentics about 3years ago! : victory:


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Yes, pure Boxer puppies do have a conical shape to their skull, as their occiput is more pronounced, but not THAT pronounced!
> 
> And no, I don't think im a know-it-all, & have never made out that I do, unlike some.


In your opinion how pronounced is too pronounced..since you know ..what are the acceptable dimensions of a conical head in a Boxer or American bulldog puppy? Yes Cone heads appear in Pure Boxer puppies lol! they also appear in American bulldogs..So I would guess it will show in a cross, I hope so as it was my intention.

Have you considered, As the pup is white in colour the depth of focus on the picture might just be an optical illusion..does the dome appear as exaggerated in the second pic?


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

JPP said:


> i know someone with a boxer x american bulldog and he is a huge bouncing monster but soft as shite
> 
> would be interesting to see a hairy one :lol2:


mum is a softy too..will be intresting to see him grown 



Lizard Loft said:


> The type of gene reaction your refering to is called *Co-dominance *and dogs have many genes that do this such as their coats being more then one colour, such as a white dog mates with a balck dog and you might get black and white pup/s as in this instance neither gene dominates the other. However im unsure as whether or not coat length and colour are linked in such a way.
> 
> I dont know if you know the basics of how genetics work? if you do then im sorry for this bit of my post lol,
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to explain, its very interesting..The breeding is from two short haired parents..This male pup is the only one with a thick long coat, two others have a thicker coat but not long and the other four have dense short coats.
I have read that American bulldogs & I assume Boxers (as similar breeding) occasionally produce throw back offspring showing the traits of the mixes used to produce the breed..ie St Bernard..can you explain this please. Thanks


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

Esarosa said:


> Cute pups that little girl is lovely, you have to admit a cone head like that looks really weird though, especially to those of us who know nothing about boxers.
> In regards to the hairy pup i sort of vaguely remember apup called enigma i think it was, but this was ages ago and my memory is rubbish so I'm probably wrong lol.
> 
> But in regards to muscle wastage, this is a quote from the second link you put up
> ...


yes you rigth about a dog called enigma http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/other-pets-exotics/864438-due-someone-mentioning-enigma-i.html


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

PPVallhunds said:


> the long coat gene in other breeds/animals is normaly ressive, so a pup would need two copies to have a long coat. So both mum and dad would have to carry it as they have to give one copy each.


that rigth wrong only 1 parent need the long coat gene i


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

oldtyme said:


> that rigth wrong only 1 parent need the long coat gene i


Everywhere online says that it is a recessive gene, if it wasn't it would surely be much more common.
What makes you think only one parent needs to carry it? (if that's what you meant)


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

em_40 said:


> Everywhere online says that it is a recessive gene, if it wasn't it would surely be much more common.
> What makes you think only one parent needs to carry it? (if that's what you meant)



i know cos i had and pay for dna it only need a parent to have a long hair gene 

Home - Old School Bulls - Mammut Bulls


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

but then that would make it domant if the pup only needs to get 1 copy to be longhair so the parent carrying it would also be longhair

In all other dogs its a ressive as explained by better then me by Lizard Loft, so cant see why they would be any diffrent to every other dog.


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## Lizard Loft (Mar 1, 2008)

jnr said:


> mum is a softy too..will be intresting to see him grown
> 
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to explain, its very interesting..The breeding is from two short haired parents..This male pup is the only one with a thick long coat, two others have a thicker coat but not long and the other four have dense short coats.
> I have read that American bulldogs & I assume Boxers (as similar breeding) occasionally produce throw back offspring showing the traits of the mixes used to produce the breed..ie St Bernard..can you explain this please. Thanks


No worries just saying what i can remeber really lol, as for the 'throw backs' each dog is like a cocktail of different genes some will have an affect on the appearence of a dog, others the internal organs literally every single part of the dog is determined by its genes, 

now when two dogs breed their offspring is given half of the chromosomes from the mums egg and half from the dads sperm, these chromosomes have the genes in them, the dog will ideally end up with 2 of every gene 1 from mum one from dad, (sometimes this varies usually in males) now imagine each one of the pairs of genes, now in some pairs one gene with be dominant over the other as previously said while the other is recessive, other pairs can be co-dominant and react together and have an equal effect on whatever it is they affect, and dogs have somewhere between 25,000 - 35,000 genes so the possibilities are endless!!! 

Also the genes that have an affect etc wont always be equal from each parent, hence why some people look more like one parent or you get people who look like niether or you get people who are the spit of great grandparents etc, the same is sort of true with dogs, 

each parent dog is made up of half of its parents, its parents are made up of half of their parents, and their parents half of their parents! etc etc so on and so on, now there will be genes from all of these relatives and ancestors within your dog and its not uncommon for genes from not so far back ones cropping up in the way a dog looks particulary if its two breeds like a boxer and a bulldog which have had very similar breeds in the mix, 

you also have to factor in that i am basing my information on healthy non pedigree dogs, pedigree breeds have less genetic variation due to inbreeding thats a fact there no denying it, its rumoured that some pedigree breeds have less gene variation then current populations of some critically endangered wildlife species! so if you dogs are bred from pedigree lines and the animals used to form the breeds where aswell their gene variation may be quite abit lower then the 25-35,000 meaning more chance of them being affected by genes dogs carried many lines back in their breeding compared to that of say a mongrel 

Im not implying because they are pedigree in breeding they wont be happy and healthy btw, just that they will have less genes lol



oldtyme said:


> i know cos i had and pay for dna it only need a parent to have a long hair gene
> 
> Home - Old School Bulls - Mammut Bulls


Thats interesting, is the site in german? ill get the comp to translate it and try and have a read through it, 

was the test done by a vet? if so did they go into much detail regarding why only one parent needs to carry it? 


I wonder if it is definately a 'longhair' gene and not some form of possible mutated 'wirehair' gene as that would explain why on parent can carry it? hmmmm maybe i duno, really interesting stuff though, would love to hear more on the subject : victory:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

The link contains no information on the genetics and neither does the link they provide for more information... Of the ones that do provide information, they all seem to think it's recessive.

eg. Mammut Bulldog Blog: Designer Dogs?

and a DNA site: http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html 

Would be interested to hear more about the DNA tests though, perhaps in your case it was a wire-haired gene rather than long-haired. Perhaps like the wire-haired 'furnishings' that it says about on the second link?


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Lizard Loft said:


> No worries just saying what i can remeber really lol, as for the 'throw backs' each dog is like a cocktail of different genes some will have an affect on the appearence of a dog, others the internal organs literally every single part of the dog is determined by its genes,
> 
> now when two dogs breed their offspring is given half of the chromosomes from the mums egg and half from the dads sperm, these chromosomes have the genes in them, the dog will ideally end up with 2 of every gene 1 from mum one from dad, (sometimes this varies usually in males) now imagine each one of the pairs of genes, now in some pairs one gene with be dominant over the other as previously said while the other is recessive, other pairs can be co-dominant and react together and have an equal effect on whatever it is they affect, and dogs have somewhere between 25,000 - 35,000 genes so the possibilities are endless!!!
> 
> ...


Mum is a pedigree American bull dog & dad is a pedigree Boxer..from what I have managed to find out, well looking at the AM BULL side..its quite common for the odd pup to pop out with longer hair..If you google long haired AMERICAN BULLDOGS its more common than I thought..MUMMUTS (long haired am bulls) are seemingly bred intentionaly in the likes of Canada as hunting dogs as the climate is colder..I have seen very long haired Rotties but up until now did not realize that the American bull dogs can also have long hair lol! They look odd 
I know for sure that Boo had not been in contact with any other male, it was a mystery..I am not sure what line Boo is as the previous owner did not drop her papers off as promised, she is registered, but seemingly the long haired gene is most common in the Johnstone lines.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

jnr said:


> One of the male pups is odd..he has a really thick heavy coat..he is a big boy with the Boxer cone shaped head but is pretty hairy..any thoughts any one..mum has not been near another male..really odd
> I have seen a huge Rottie with long hair, it looked like an Orangutan lol!


srry i know i maybe being a bit silly but is he pure boxer or crossbreed? cause if hes a pure breed i wud say hes either got a deformaty or maybe its something hell just grow into lol but it is weird hes still though


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

with stuff like long hair genes it does only take one parent to have it but the chance of a pup getting it isnt very common but it still does happen. and each pup is different no 2 pups in a litter are the same. they never look the same. they dnt act the same.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Lol.... I think the answers to your questions may have been explored in depth over the past 3 pages....
Have a read of them and if you still wanna know stuff ask away.
The pups by the fact of their name...bulloxers.... Are am bull boxer crosses.
The head is cone shaped from the boxer lineage.


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## mrandmrsk (Nov 28, 2009)

im sure if you go back through the parents pedigrees you will find a long haired one somewhere 

i breed smooth ( shortcoated) st bernards and dispite breeding smooth to smooth we still get the odd throughback a rough ( longhaired) , although now im futher down my lines ( 3 gens) i expect the throwbacks will be less and less as i put smooths to smooths only 

id say that within 5 gens theres a fluff monster!!! 

the cone head does look very odd to me, but if it was a bernard or newfie id be completely worried..... its not my breed so i cant comment on shape or standard of the breed 

congratulations on rearing your first litter , my first litter was my only easy litter and ill forever be greatfull for that!!!


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

missmoore said:


> im sure if you go back through the parents pedigrees you will find a long haired one somewhere
> 
> i breed smooth ( shortcoated) st bernards and dispite breeding smooth to smooth we still get the odd throughback a rough ( longhaired) , although now im futher down my lines ( 3 gens) i expect the throwbacks will be less and less as i put smooths to smooths only
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input.he isnt quite as Fluffy as he is growing, TBH his head isnt as pronounced as it appears in the pic, his head was down so showed his forehead & the back of his head at the same time.

Thanks the pups are coming along great, just wee pooping & piddling machines at the moment..they all attack your feet & trousers at every opportunity lol!..some funny characters but they all like attention :2thumb:


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