# Vipera berus, is it classed under DWA?



## callumstanton (Nov 12, 2013)

Am I allowed to have the European adder without a DWA license? Or would I have to require one first


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

No:whistling2:


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

First of all, yes you would need a DWA license to keep European Adders (_Vipera Berus)_. Secondly, you would need the adders to be captive bred animals from captive bred parents. 

As i understand, wild animals that have been bred and produced litters in captivity are still not allowed to be sold or traded and the only animals that can be sold are the generation after the first captive breeding.


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

yes need a dwa they may not be as venomous as say a rattlesnake but a adder bite is still no joke theres a few people on here who have had bad bites from working monitoring and protecting wild populations of adders here in uk i beleave there a stunning species when i get my licence i will definatly own some


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## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> First of all, yes you would need a DWA license to keep European Adders (_Vipera Berus)_. Secondly, you would need the adders to be captive bred animals from captive bred parents.
> 
> As i understand, wild animals that have been bred and produced litters in captivity are still not allowed to be sold or traded and the only animals that can be sold are the generation after the first captive breeding.


wrong, you need a dwa but adders are not given the same protection as smooth snakes.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> First of all, yes you would need a DWA license to keep European Adders (_Vipera Berus)_. Secondly, you would need the adders to be captive bred animals from captive bred parents.
> 
> As i understand, wild animals that have been bred and produced litters in captivity are still not allowed to be sold or traded and the only animals that can be sold are the generation after the first captive breeding.


No you don't. If you have DWAL allowing you to keep berus you can go and collect them yourself. And as long as you can prove they were bred in captivity then the offspring can be sold too.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Hmm, every time I quote a member's thread, it selects the wrong one....


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok lets make is simples folks

The Northern Viper or Adder if you prefer is as the name says a "viper"!

It is a species of "viper" covered under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act, so you would need a licence to keep one.

They are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act, however the level of protection given is not brilliant, in fact its pretty poor. But you cannot trade, barter or sell the species.

If you were to successfully breed in captivity you would be ok to sell provided you could show the offspring were from captive bred stock. 

However thats ok and hypothetical 99% of the time as Vipera berus are a difficult species to maintain in captivity, certainly in vivarium environments. 

Out doors is different.

As for taking from the wild although its not illegal (it clearly should be) ones taken from the wild seldom do well and rarely feed.

As one post has noted there seems to be an idea that the "common adder" is not a dangerous snake. 

IT IS!

A bite from a berus needs hospital treatment and is potentially serious.

I know as I have been there on the wrong end.

So to cap it all they are not a good choice and best left to specialists or left in the wild.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

I can't quote other threads... either way, I agree with Graeme. The law should stipulate that it is illegal to take them from the wild. They do not do well in captivity. A bite from _V. berus_ hurts too. *A LOT!*

Dave


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

You can find CB berus though if you want to keep them they are a much better option than taking one from the wild and they are reasonably cheap as well.


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

rigsby said:


> wrong, you need a dwa but adders are not given the same protection as smooth snakes.





ian14 said:


> No you don't. If you have DWAL allowing you to keep berus you can go and collect them yourself. And as long as you can prove they were bred in captivity then the offspring can be sold too.


I stand corrected : victory:


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

get a Cobra much easier


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Cape cobra is a less painful death too


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Tim Hallam said:


> get a Cobra much easier


And the bite is just like a bee sting.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

This does confuse me at times though the dwa licence is there to protect the public from venomous animals i completely agree with that but when there literally on ur doorstep or back garden surely there even more of a danger to the public than they would be indoors not that i condone taking from the wild. The adders near me i just supply many hiding places in the garden and also leave grain about to attrack prey for them


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> This does confuse me at times though the dwa licence is there to protect the public from venomous animals i completely agree with that but when there literally on ur doorstep or back garden surely there even more of a danger to the public than they would be indoors not that i condone taking from the wild. The adders near me i just supply many hiding places in the garden and also leave grain about to attrack prey for them


What? I do not understand what you are writing? That last sentence has me lost!


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## Gratenkutzombie (Dec 28, 2012)

He provides lots of hiding places in his garden and puts down grain to attract fluffies which can be eaten by the snakes.



slippery42 said:


> What? I do not understand what you are writing? That last sentence has me lost!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Gratenkutzombie said:


> He provides lots of hiding places in his garden and puts down grain to attract fluffies which can be eaten by the snakes.


Having worked professionally with Vipera berus for 30 years the idea of putting grain in a garden to "attrack" prey for the species is interesting and simplistic to say the least.

Adders are generally sensitive to any regular forms of disturbance something which most gardens tend to have.

I would have been able to reply earlier but I needed someone to translate as the way the post is written makes little sense to me.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

Its Cornwall as soon as spring hits adders turn up everywhere an old lady had one xome in her house even and was drinking out of dogs water bowl lol but u see my confusion u can attract them onto ur land but the min u take one indoors ur breaking the law but surely there less of a danger in ur house. Il be honest as a kid I saw one hit by a car and not killed called rspca and they were just like it will be destroyed I knew the vet and said to him why they destroying it. His response was because they cant care for them so I was like screw that im taking it home and alot of keeping it in the dark in the garage in a old aquarium with sone chicken wire worked really well ..... and food was easy just slung a load of mouse traps out and whatever they caught (the neighbours bloody cat included but thats different story) just got thrown in there amd about half of it got eaten...... although now I realise every 3 days that adder must of thought it was at harrods with all the food being left for it. About 3 months later I just let it go in the garden my bro nicknamed it kink and we used to see im now assuming her alot. Now I don't get why thats wrong u take summit thats gonna die and give it life hows that illegal there native so makes no sense imo for them to be on dwa imho theu should be a regulates snake I.e u need a licence like a hermans tortoise..


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

mikeyb said:


> Its Cornwall as soon as spring hits adders turn up everywhere an old lady had one xome in her house even and was drinking out of dogs water bowl lol but u see my confusion u can attract them onto ur land but the min u take one indoors ur breaking the law but surely there less of a danger in ur house. Il be honest as a kid I saw one hit by a car and not killed called rspca and they were just like it will be destroyed I knew the vet and said to him why they destroying it. His response was because they cant care for them so I was like screw that im taking it home and alot of keeping it in the dark in the garage in a old aquarium with sone chicken wire worked really well ..... and food was easy just slung a load of mouse traps out and whatever they caught (the neighbours bloody cat included but thats different story) just got thrown in there amd about half of it got eaten...... although now I realise every 3 days that adder must of thought it was at harrods with all the food being left for it. About 3 months later I just let it go in the garden my bro nicknamed it kink and we used to see im now assuming her alot. Now I don't get why thats wrong u take summit thats gonna die and give it life hows that illegal there native so makes no sense imo for them to be on dwa imho theu should be a regulates snake I.e u need a licence like a hermans tortoise..


Google Chrome or a spell checker would certainly be useful.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Stephen P said:


> Google Chrome or a spell checker would certainly be useful.



No attempt at grammar and the way its written means it is so difficult to read and actually understand.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> Its Cornwall as soon as spring hits adders turn up everywhere an old lady had one xome in her house even and was drinking out of dogs water bowl lol but u see my confusion u can attract them onto ur land but the min u take one indoors ur breaking the law but surely there less of a danger in ur house. Il be honest as a kid I saw one hit by a car and not killed called rspca and they were just like it will be destroyed I knew the vet and said to him why they destroying it. His response was because they cant care for them so I was like screw that im taking it home and alot of keeping it in the dark in the garage in a old aquarium with sone chicken wire worked really well ..... and food was easy just slung a load of mouse traps out and whatever they caught (the neighbours bloody cat included but thats different story) just got thrown in there amd about half of it got eaten...... although now I realise every 3 days that adder must of thought it was at harrods with all the food being left for it. About 3 months later I just let it go in the garden my bro nicknamed it kink and we used to see im now assuming her alot. Now I don't get why thats wrong u take summit thats gonna die and give it life hows that illegal there native so makes no sense imo for them to be on dwa imho theu should be a regulates snake I.e u need a licence like a hermans tortoise..


So you committed offences under the Animal Welfare Act by failing to obtain veterinary help, and the DWAA by keeping a schedule 1 species.
You don't need a licence to keep a Hermann's either, you need an exemption certificate to use one for a commercial purpose.
Adders are venomous, have a potent venom, and have caused human fatalities. The purpose of the DWAA is to protect the public. If adders were given some bizarre exemption from the Act because they are native, there is the real risk of people collecting them and keeping them in urban areas where the public would never encounter them.
As they are a viper, they will never come off of the DWAA.


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

to add - the main issue about Adders and the Dangerous Wild Animals Act is clarity and the law - quite simply all snakes belonging to the Genus Vipera of the subfamily Viperinae of the family Viperidae are controlled under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act - any anecdotal evidence about their relatively innocuous nature and close proximity to the UK public is totally irrelevant. to exclude Adders from the Act because they are native would leave a flaw in the act that could be challenged no only with other species but also its administration. personally I think it's great that we have "officially" Dangerous animals wild in the UK. be proud people


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> So you committed offences under the Animal Welfare Act by failing to obtain veterinary help, and the DWAA by keeping a schedule 1 species.
> You don't need a licence to keep a Hermann's either, you need an exemption certificate to use one for a commercial purpose.
> Adders are venomous, have a potent venom, and have caused human fatalities. The purpose of the DWAA is to protect the public. If adders were given some bizarre exemption from the Act because they are native, there is the real risk of people collecting them and keeping them in urban areas where the public would never encounter them.
> As they are a viper, they will never come off of the DWAA.


Ian14 you are skilled beyond me! I lost to will to live trying to read that shite that the post eluded to


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

no ian it had vet care given too it i paid for out of my hard earned dish washing money and when the vet told me if this goes to the rspca they will destroy it i was like screw that im not letting it die due to the in abillities considering i have them in the field behind me and even in the garden surely a injured snake if it did survive is then more of a danger to my local public i get what ur saying in a city etc.... so what would u of said i should of done as a 17 yr old lad just left it to die ????


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> no ian it had vet care given too it i paid for out of my hard earned dish washing money and when the vet told me if this goes to the rspca they will destroy it i was like screw that im not letting it die due to the in abillities considering i have them in the field behind me and even in the garden surely a injured snake if it did survive is then more of a danger to my local public i get what ur saying in a city etc.... so what would u of said i should of done as a 17 yr old lad just left it to die ????


So a vet knew that you were keeping it illegally and was happy to allow you to keep it in a garage after being run over? In the dark. In an old fish tank. No heating, no lighting. Just what medical treatment did it get? Because I'm pretty sure after being run over it would have needed some medical treatment.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> So a vet knew that you were keeping it illegally and was happy to allow you to keep it in a garage after being run over? In the dark. In an old fish tank. No heating, no lighting. Just what medical treatment did it get? Because I'm pretty sure after being run over it would have needed some medical treatment.


You smell some bull like I do?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> You smell some bull like I do?


A huge steaming pile of it!


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

well it wasnt like exactly flat and still twitching it just got clipped,. it was summer and the vets advice was to put it in a dark place undisturbed with water. from my recollection the vet cleaned its wound stitched it up gave it some antibiotics by injection and then sent me on my way please bare in mind the vets down here aint the same as ur city vet alot are self taught and the guy i used to go to for the ferrets used to work out of his home. back then i wasnt even aware of dwa or this site or i would of passed it onto a hot keeper but i dont see the harm when the animal was given the care it needed to live its life again and i know it survived as id see it out sunning and it was the one with the scare accrossed it......so what ur saying is i should of allowed it to just die ???


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> well it wasnt like exactly flat and still twitching it just got clipped,. it was summer and the vets advice was to put it in a dark place undisturbed with water. from my recollection the vet cleaned its wound stitched it up gave it some antibiotics by injection and then sent me on my way please bare in mind the vets down here aint the same as ur city vet alot are self taught and the guy i used to go to for the ferrets used to work out of his home. back then i wasnt even aware of dwa or this site or i would of passed it onto a hot keeper but i dont see the harm when the animal was given the care it needed to live its life again and i know it survived as id see it out sunning and it was the one with the scare accrossed it......so what ur saying is i should of allowed it to just die ???


This has to be the funniest post I have read for a very long time! Self taught vets??? What absolute horsecrap. To perform veterinary procedures you must be a qualified and registered veterinary surgeon. This requires studying at university for around 7 years, and passing all exams before being qualified. So please explain how exactly the vets in Cornwall have managed to circumvent this and become registered to practice veterinary medicine after teaching themselves??!!


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

MikeyB up to his grammarless antics again :gasp:


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

OMG, this thread has become HILARIOUS!

Adders drinking from dog bowls, attracting adders with grain, adders in car accidents, injured WC adders eating pre-killed rodents, self taught vets. . . .

I'm embarrassed to say it, but I know very little about our native adder. However, some of the stuff in this thread doesn't seem to sit right. I was under the impression WC adders were difficult to get feeding, so I'm assuming it would be even harder if the snake had been ran over, stitched up by a hobby vet, and put in a fish tank with dead rodents and a mesh lid?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

coldestblood said:


> OMG, this thread has become HILARIOUS!
> 
> Adders drinking from dog bowls, attracting adders with grain, adders in car accidents, injured WC adders eating pre-killed rodents, self taught vets. . . .
> 
> I'm embarrassed to say it, but I know very little about our native adder. However, some of the stuff in this thread doesn't seem to sit right. I was under the impression WC adders were difficult to get feeding, so I'm assuming it would be even harder if the snake had been ran over, stitched up by a hobby vet, and put in a fish tank with dead rodents and a mesh lid?


Lee, Glad you joined in the fun


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ian14 said:


> This has to be the funniest post I have read for a very long time! Self taught vets??? What absolute horsecrap. To perform veterinary procedures you must be a qualified and registered veterinary surgeon. This requires studying at university for around 7 years, and passing all exams before being qualified. So please explain how exactly the vets in Cornwall have managed to circumvent this and become registered to practice veterinary medicine after teaching themselves??!!


 basically because the guy was a sheep farmer in cornwall never wanted to be but followed the family buisness got fed up with it so decided with alot of money that he would pay to put himself through all the exams and practical work around the buisness and basically paid to become a vet which i believe took him a little over 10years because he didnt go to uni as such... The main advantage of this was that when my ferrets went into season if they aint bred then they will become really ill so if there given based on weight the same drug given to dogs to take them out of season it works really well the difference being a vet in the main city of cornwall would of been about £35-40 where as he charged and i believe still practices like 20-25 because he doesnt believe in making money out of sick animals at the same levels other vets do he earns enough to live which makes him happy i suppose


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

either way if u dont believe me i really couldnt give a :censor: at the end of the day ive had this expirience and wanted to share it with people who were interested. not some jumped up little rambo hot keepers who have a messiah complex. either way look up vets online on the st agnes to perranporth road i believe his name was Dr doodey or Dr dodey and he was all over the equine forums years back because of the costs of his service being so low compared to the conventional vet i.e no call out charges if he cannot treat the animal on its own farm instead he would transport it back to his own farm and then it would pay for its keep on the farm while recieving med treatment


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

mikeyb said:


> basically because the guy was a sheep farmer in cornwall never wanted to be but followed the family buisness got fed up with it so decided with alot of money that he would pay to put himself through all the exams and practical work around the buisness and basically paid to become a vet which i believe took him a little over 10years because he didnt go to uni as such... The main advantage of this was that when my ferrets went into season if they aint bred then they will become really ill so if there given based on weight the same drug given to dogs to take them out of season it works really well the difference being a vet in the main city of cornwall would of been about £35-40 where as he charged and i believe still practices like 20-25 because he doesnt believe in making money out of sick animals at the same levels other vets do he earns enough to live which makes him happy i suppose





mikeyb said:


> either way if u dont believe me i really couldnt give a :censor: at the end of the day ive had this expirience and wanted to share it with people who were interested. not some jumped up little rambo hot keepers who have a messiah complex. either way look up vets online on the st agnes to perranporth road i believe his name was Dr doodey or Dr dodey and he was all over the equine forums years back because of the costs of his service being so low compared to the conventional vet i.e no call out charges if he cannot treat the animal on its own farm instead he would transport it back to his own farm and then it would pay for its keep on the farm while recieving med treatment


To dispense medicines to animals surely you have to be a member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons? After all anyone who had the money could "pay" to do the exams or even pay for someone else to do them for them!

Giving medicines to animals licensed for a totally different species again surely is not permitted?

More like Dr Dodgy............:lol2:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> basically because the guy was a sheep farmer in cornwall never wanted to be but followed the family buisness got fed up with it so decided with alot of money that he would pay to put himself through all the exams and practical work around the buisness and basically paid to become a vet which i believe took him a little over 10years because he didnt go to uni as such... The main advantage of this was that when my ferrets went into season if they aint bred then they will become really ill so if there given based on weight the same drug given to dogs to take them out of season it works really well the difference being a vet in the main city of cornwall would of been about £35-40 where as he charged and i believe still practices like 20-25 because he doesnt believe in making money out of sick animals at the same levels other vets do he earns enough to live which makes him happy i suppose


Oh dear God it gets better!! So ferrets get really ill if they can't breed when in season?? And are given medication that dogs have? A word from the wise - dogs don't get ill when in season and don't need medication to bring them out of season. That is no different to saying that women will become ill if they don't get pregnant! Then the whole issue of this "vet" who paid to be one but didn't go to university! Hilarious!! Then he is not a vet. If this little jackanory story is true then he is committing numerous offences including fraud by false representation, prescription fraud, and I assume handling stolen goods because the medicine he has been dispensing could not have been lawfully obtained.
Perhaps you would be better off by just leaving this before making yourself look any more foolish than you already have.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

ian14 said:


> Oh dear God it gets better!! So ferrets get really ill if they can't breed when in season?? And are given medication that dogs have? A word from the wise - dogs don't get ill when in season and don't need medication to bring them out of season. That is no different to saying that women will become ill if they don't get pregnant! Then the whole issue of this "vet" who paid to be one but didn't go to university! Hilarious!! Then he is not a vet. If this little jackanory story is true then he is committing numerous offences including fraud by false representation, prescription fraud, and I assume handling stolen goods because the medicine he has been dispensing could not have been lawfully obtained.
> Perhaps you would be better off by just leaving this before making yourself look any more foolish than you already have.


As instructed, I have Googled the name Doody in St Agnes.

There is no vet under that name registered with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. However, that name comes up with the words "Surgery Closed" and "We only treat farm animals at this surgery". Interestingly enough there are no letters after the name!


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## cjd12345 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't often visit the DWA section, but I have a soft spot for our native species and this thread caught my eye.

I've also had a quick Google for a vet called Doody and found that the parish council has given him an award:
st agnes parish certifiactes of recognition | This is Cornwall

Great... they've given someone award for community-minded veterinary services to someone who isn't actually registered with the RCVS...


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

Well see now do u believe me lol


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> Well see now do u believe me lol



No! and why dont you use English to make your posts understandable?


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## __sam69__ (Mar 4, 2008)

Lol...


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

slippery42 said:


> No! and why dont you use English to make your posts understandable?


well the facts are there no one believed me about the vet and thats been proven wrong so tbh i couldnt give a flying :censor:. Seems pretty clear that some hot keepers seem to think its better to let an animal be destroyed than bring it back to health and then release it


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## marie_k (Apr 21, 2006)

mikeyb said:


> well the facts are there no one believed me about the vet and thats been proven wrong so tbh i couldnt give a flying :censor:. Seems pretty clear that some hot keepers seem to think its better to let an animal be destroyed than bring it back to health and then release it


I think if you reread the posts you'll find they can identify someone providing veterinary services but who is not registered as a vet (so is either retired or working illegally).
You can't self-train or study part-time to be a vet. You go to one of the vet schools, study full-time for 5-6yrs, pass your exams and qualify. There is no other option. Either he did this and worked legally, or he wasn't a qualified vet and was working illegally, there is no grey area.



> Oh dear God it gets better!! So ferrets get really ill if they can't breed when in season?? And are given medication that dogs have?


This bit is actually true - ferrets have a persistent oestrus that ends when mated and if they are left in season long-term the ongoing high oestrogen levels can have serious health results. And you can use a medication licensed for dogs to bring them out of season.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

thank you maria someone who actually understands and doesnt have a messiah complex. im not sure about doodey all i was told was by a freind of mine who kept horses (now them things do scare the :censor: out of me and kick and hurt like :censor: id take an adder bite over a pissy horse anyday) not to take my jills to the vets in the main city in cornwall but to take it down the road to doodey and he would weight her and then give her a jab to pull her out of season. so ireally dont know the deal with him all i know was hes a sheep farmer and ive seen him pull a cat that had be slammed by a lorry in perran and was literally on the way out and he nursed it back to health and then was all over the local papers as he didnt charge the owner anything but the cost of the drugs. so i cant see him being illegal.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> thank you maria someone who actually understands and doesnt have a messiah complex. im not sure about doodey all i was told was by a freind of mine who kept horses (now them things do scare the :censor: out of me and kick and hurt like :censor: id take an adder bite over a pissy horse anyday) not to take my jills to the vets in the main city in cornwall but to take it down the road to doodey and he would weight her and then give her a jab to pull her out of season. so ireally dont know the deal with him all i know was hes a sheep farmer and ive seen him pull a cat that had be slammed by a lorry in perran and was literally on the way out and he nursed it back to health and then was all over the local papers as he didnt charge the owner anything but the cost of the drugs. so i cant see him being illegal.


He isn't registered so is therefore not legally able to practice. You said yourself he is "self taught" which implies he has not studied veterinary medicine at a university, so is not qualified. So therefore he is acting unlawfully.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

id imagine after 10+years since ive last seen him the local parish are not gonna be giving any kind of recognition to someone practicing illegally and something would of happened by now so ur wrong about the vet u were wrong about the ferrets anything else u wanna be wrong about :bash:


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## marie_k (Apr 21, 2006)

mikeyb said:


> id imagine after 10+years since ive last seen him the local parish are not gonna be giving any kind of recognition to someone practicing illegally and something would of happened by now so ur wrong about the vet u were wrong about the ferrets anything else u wanna be wrong about :bash:


Diagnosing, sourcing prescription medication and administering medication to other people's animals comes under the remit of the Veterinary Surgeons Act. If he isn't a vet then he is 100% working illegally.
Marie


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> id imagine after 10+years since ive last seen him *the local parish are not gonna be giving any kind of recognition to someone practicing illegally* and something would of happened by now so ur wrong about the vet u were wrong about the ferrets anything else u wanna be wrong about :bash:


Why not? They cover up child abuse and rape, and support indoctrination, so giving an untrained vet an award is pretty tame in comparison - I'm surprised he didn't try speaking to it in tongues.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> id imagine after 10+years since ive last seen him the local parish are not gonna be giving any kind of recognition to someone practicing illegally and something would of happened by now so ur wrong about the vet u were wrong about the ferrets anything else u wanna be wrong about :bash:


Hmm. You do know what a parish council is I assume? If not, I'll explain. A locally elected group, with no political power, who act to represent a very local community. Without intending any offence to those who sit on such "councils" they are essentially local community spirited residents with no understanding of law or legal process.

This "vet" is quite frankly a fraud.


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