# Morph check: Leopard Gecko



## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

Asked someone ages ago about this little gal in a reptile shop, but thought I'd get a second opinion really. This is Ringo, first gecko we've hatched, and only one like her.


















Eclipse eyes for certain, but pattern? I was told Reverse Stripe, but would like an updated opinion, or back up on the original please! She's always been a little on the titchy side too. Not sure why =P

Bred from two normals. Trying to find photos.

Thank you for any input!


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

WOW - what a stunning leo! I was drawn towards leos like this on the American Forums recently. Those however, were mainly outcross/by products from Calico breedings as far as I was told, and as you describe the parents as Normals then it`s not because of that!
If it comes from 2 normals, with no hidden hets (ie both being non het Eclipse) then you`ve got a cracking genetic mutation/fluke on our hands!!! Personally, as it doesn`t tend to happen that often, I`d say that both of the parents must have been carrying hidden hets that you`re unaware of - the Eclipse and Stripe that`s come through are classic byproducts from outcrossing Raptors somewhere alogn the line.
Any chance of a pic of the parents - just on the off chance that you do actually have 2 `Outcross` leos (I hate that term!) rather than 2 Normal leos???
As to what your girl `is` I`d say an Eclipse eyed Stripe, Eclipse obv because of the eyes (if they are totally filled in) and Stripe purely because of the strong tail stripe.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Reverse stirpe springs to mind, especially with the eclipse eyes. Although the hypermelanism interests me more. Were the parents dark?


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## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys! Dug out some photos of the parents here:

The mother (Peach) was my first gecko. Bought her in a reptile shop at around...2 months? The male was a rescue gecko that a local reptile shop owner had brought back to health. Not entirely sure how old he was, or his genetics. It's possible he did carry some genes, but after Ringo all we got were normals, which is why I think it was a fluke, if such a thing is possible. 

Bearing in mind she was born...2003? The bloke who sexed her wanted to buy her off us there and then =P

Mother:









Father:










And baby Ringo: (Really small picture, sorry)


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

If it is carrying the eclipse gene, both parents must be carrying the gene for it. The only way to be sure (as you have had normals after this) is to test breed to a proven eclipse.
There is a slim chance you could have stumbled upon a new mutation, but with the reverse stripe influence I would guess RAPTOR in the parents history.


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## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

Shame it's a female, otherwise you could of bred it to my giant reverse stripe. :no1: Stunning!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Would like to see a picture of the parents.She look like the oddball Super calico they have solid black eyes,also that strip down the back into the tail.It look a little differant than Reverse striped.Genetics of Calico and Super calico are not yet understud.

Hatchling.









Young.









Bit older.

















Sub adult.









ANOTHER

Hatchling.









young.









Adult.

















TWO MORE.

Young.









Bit older.
























One of them adult.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

They are gorgeous and very pretty


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ringo said:


> Mother:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Non of the parents look to be calico ?.So you've been very lucky in getting two leo's with eclipse ancestory.Or like you said Ringo is a genetic oddball a freak.I'd put Ringo to a RAPTOR see what happens.


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Flippin` Heck pal, if I`ve got it right what you`re saying - that Ringo was born around 2003 - then that blows the whole Eclipse (as it`s known today), Raptor ancestory, outcross theories out of the water - because the Eclipse gene was only discovered in 2004!!!! It would also put an end to the `Calico ` theory as well, as these are also a new pretty morph discovery.
If she was born in 2003 as you say (in case I got that bit wrong), and she does actually produce Eclipse eyed babies when/if you paired her to another Eclipse or Raptor, then it would throw a heck of a lot of morphs and their origins on their heads as we know them. If it comes true that she`s an Eclipse, then you could rightly claim to be the discoverer, and proud owner, of the the first ever Eclipse eyed leo.

What I will add - without a shadow of a doubt and unquestionably - is that if she was born in 2003, then she is far, far more than either `just` an Eclipse eyed leo OR a Reverse Stripe.

How come you kept her hidden away for so long?????!!!!!


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## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

Ah, gone through the records, and it was 2005 she was born. So it is possible that she did have parents with hidden genes. Sorry to get you excited =(
(Would have been nice though!) 

I still find it incredibly interesting though, especially when comparing the Calicos to her as a baby. Some look very similar to how she was. I wish I had more pictures of her when she was younger, but the phone I had some on was sold. 

Will be looking to breed her with something else, maybe not this year, as it's nearly over for us (they started quite early this year, and deserve a break!).

We have actually bred Peach, Ringo's mum, to a ruby-eyed enigma (not sure if it has to be straight RAPTOR?). Haven't got anything but very dark eyed engimas, but we think we can see the pupils. The hunt continues!


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## forgottenEntity (Sep 7, 2008)

Ringo said:


> Ah, gone through the records, and it was 2005 she was born. So it is possible that she did have parents with hidden genes. Sorry to get you excited =(
> (Would have been nice though!)


Possible but somewhat unlikely...

It was 2004 when RT had the first Eclipse traits appear. Problem is, he got them whilst working on his APTOR project... So, for Ringo to be Eclipse, his parents would both probably have had to come from RT's APTOR breeding project crosses, most likely in 2002/2003/2004. Possible... but unlikely. If it is the case - you've got one of the world's first none-"bred by RT" Eclipse geckos.... in which case, you've probably got a reverse stripe carrier aswell, going by the looks of it.

As Gazz has said - you could do a lot worse than cross it with a real RAPTOR. You'll prove a lot out very easily that way. If yours is an Eclipse, every baby should also be Eclipse / Snake eyed. If you happen to end up with an Albino baby out of the deal, that would also point, in a big way, to both of Ringo's parents having come from RT's APTOR breeding project lines too. If on the other hand you get a bunch of baby normals.... you know you have a none-tremper-eclipse gecko.


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## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

I feel some investigative breeding coming up next year! We're actually looking for a new male, so it could be worth having a look into her genetics too. 

Might find something at the B.R.A.S or WMRS Expo... :whistling2:

Cheers for all the input guys! It's like a great mystery at the moment. Rather exciting @[email protected]


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## forgottenEntity (Sep 7, 2008)

Ringo said:


> I feel some investigative breeding coming up next year! We're actually looking for a new male, so it could be worth having a look into her genetics too.
> 
> Might find something at the B.R.A.S or WMRS Expo... :whistling2:
> 
> Cheers for all the input guys! It's like a great mystery at the moment. Rather exciting @[email protected]


Doh! Having just noticed Ringo is female, that will teach me to read posts more carefully!....

Darn! That does slow down your progress a bit unfortunately. Males - easy - you can test breed them out against 10 different morphs if needs be in a single season . Takes 10 years to do ten morphs with a female!! I think if you really are wanting to prove her out then the RAPTOR idea is your best bet for year 1. You may find out from that exactly what you've got or else... well, you've got a real mystery gecko there


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Still exciting bud!!! Like I said - the first `real` Eclipse was discovered in 2004, so with her being born the following year, then it`s highly unlikely that she`s any kind of descendant from the whole Aptor/Raptor/Eclipse project. When did you buy her parents? 
Pretty much guaranteed that you had to buy her mum in - poss before - 2004 for her to have produced the corker, as she was only a few months old when you bought her. And if the mum and dad were bought seperately (not from the same supplier/source) and as they would have to both be Eclipse carriers to pass it on, then I think that also takes the `Eclipse as we know it` theory out of the water (again). 
She a belter (and still exciting!). Possibilities inc another strain of `eclipse`, a new eye gene (*is her dad still alive btw? breeding her back to the father would be a fantastic pairing*), an ancestory of Calico origin (judging by her baby pic) one of the world`s first ever eclipse or a total one off!!!! It`s 99.9999% though, that she`s nothing to do with anything RT was working on, which makes her all the more special!
I think she`s great - one of those leos that you just hope and pray are going to pop out of your collection once or twice on your lifetime - if you are lucky! You have breeders who pair up countless amounts of morphs and leos and never produce anything out of the ordinary.


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## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

I actually like the look of RAPTORs, so getting one would be nice, and on the side we can put theory to the test. Yeah, she's a female! I was a novice really when we hatched her, so I went with instinct when I said what gender she was. Thought it was a boy, but turned out she was a little girl x3

As for her parents, her mum (Peach) was bought in late 2003 in our local pet shop, The Reptile House, which moved quite a while ago because of new owners. We got Oscar (dad) in 2004, though to be honest here, we don't know ANYTHING about him. He was a rescue gecko, and we have no idea how old he was when we got him (quite old we think, as he had some problems last year normally due to age, and we had to put him down, sadly). Peach is still with us though.

Come to think of it, I actually have emailed Ron Tremper before, and got this response:



> 14th April, 2008:
> 
> Hi
> This is a very nice gecko.
> ...


Based on the same pictures I've put here, minus the one close-up. I was never comfortable with breeding her with her dad, mainly because the size difference was too much (Ozzy was a big gecko, Ringo is a tiddler, even fully grown), and because I didn't think I'd need to, really.


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## forgottenEntity (Sep 7, 2008)

Going by the past tense where "dad" / Oscar is concerned, do I gather he's no longer with you?

As for RT's little email to you.... interestingly, from the sounds of it, RT has already completely ditched the idea in his own head that your leo could possibly be an eclipse carrier leo, otherwise he would probably have recommended a RAPTOR to prove it out against, rather than going for an Albino like he has suggested. Unless he missed the solid black eyes in the photos... which I very much doubt.


PS: (For the benefit of Gazz)
See, told you RT was a nice, warm, friendly, helpful chap :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Ringo (Apr 15, 2008)

As said above, we lost him late last year. We think he was older than we thought at first. Sad part is we'll never know. The vet didn't know what else to put it down to though, except for old age.

I didn't attach the black eyed photo I put here, but I gave him another one to look at, which showed the eyes off clearly. I think the only thing on her that hasn't been seen elsewhere is the 'black head' (though it's more purple!).


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

forgottenEntity said:


> PS: (For the benefit of Gazz)
> See, told you RT was a nice, warm, friendly, helpful chap :lol2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Never said he wasn't nice.Only that he's the only person that can robs people.
With out the use of a sawn off shotgun:whistling2:.He does it with leo's:lol2:.

Some of his morph are fair of price now and when they first come out.
Others i just totally disagree with.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ringo get in contact with a member called 'Just a beginner' he/She got a baby leo just like your from two NORMAL leo's.Maybe you can short out breeding plans ? or somthing if they are differant sex's.

Male.









Female.Has iris smudge but not eclipse.









Offspring has the reverse striped thing going on i can't recall wheather it had solid eyes or not ?.


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

There you go mate - if you`ve got a response from RT that says he`s never seen a leo like yours `with all that going on` - then it just goes to show exactly how unique/special your lady really is. Just think how many leos he has, breeds, combines, the leos he`s seen or been offered etc without coming across the same leo as yours - and it puts your lady into context. Don`t mean to go OTT, but it`s any breeders dream to find a leo that`s never been made/discovered before - the really surprising thing is that he didn`t try to prise her away from you!!! (how much do you want by the way haha?! )


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## forgottenEntity (Sep 7, 2008)

gazz said:


> Never said he wasn't nice.Only that he's the only person that can robs people.
> With out the use of a sawn off shotgun:whistling2:.He does it with leo's:lol2:.
> 
> Some of his morph are fair of price now and when they first come out.
> Others i just totally disagree with.


PM Sent in the hopes of trying to make you at least a little bit aware of how wrong you are about him. Still don't understand why you seem to love being so insulting about him. He definitely does NOT deserve it.

Sorry for this ending up smack in the middle of a really great thread.


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

Ringo said:


> Asked someone ages ago about this little gal in a reptile shop, but thought I'd get a second opinion really. This is Ringo, first gecko we've hatched, and only one like her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Woah, i've never seen a leo with markings like that, stunner :mf_dribble:


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