# Bottom feeder to live with axolotls



## Si_C (Dec 30, 2008)

I am looking around for some thing to the help clean up there tank i have only had them a few days loving learning all about them .. I asked a guy in a pet shop an he told me he didn't think there is anything that could live in the cold temps with them Any idea's folks ?? and also wat other fish u think would be ok to live with them ???


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

None they'll most likelt get eaten.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

You could maybe try something like a European weather loach- if it's big enough, it might not get eaten.


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## Si_C (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks very much for the help will look in to it further they look quite nice lil fishys to live along side them . thank you


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

you could do a large Plecostomus but it must be conditioned to live in the cold water. I was told Cichlids could only survive above 72 degrees F, but I have conditioned a colony of Black Convicts to survive as low as 56 degrees or less. A Pleco should be no different and if anything should be MORE hardy as a bottom-feeder and a catfish. Find one that is over 6'' or so and begin with it alone in a 10 gallon tank w/ a filter and heater. 

Gradually lower the temperature from 78 degrees F every few days. Do not drop the temperature faster than 2-3 degrees at a time. Once you get the tank to around 65-68 degrees, don't lower it again until you are sure the Pleco is still eating, as it's metabolism will have slowed considerably. Keep notes of the lowest temperature it will eat at, and don't drop it below that temperature until it acclimates. 

At this point, a 2 degrees drop every 5-7 days will be more practical. Plecos will eat pellets, but a supply of Algae Wafers should be kept available as well. Once the Pleco's tank and the Axolotl's tank are within a degree or 2 of each other, you can bag up the Pleco, float it for 20-40 minutes in the Axolotyl's tank, and then release him into it.

If i'm not mistaken, Axolotyls are best kept between 58-65 degrees F., so as long as the Pleco has been properly conditioned, it should survive at that point. You will need to pay closer attention to the temperature however to ensure both species survive, w/ the Axolotyl of course being primary concern.

Anything else is not suitable, as fish will pick and peck at the feathery gills of the Axolotyl as well as eat it's protective slime coat, eventually killing it.....ESPECIALLY Goldfish or Chinese Algae-eaters.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

So no one likes this idea? It really DOES work.


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> So no one likes this idea? It really DOES work.


Not really. You are not conditioning tropical fish to live in cold water, all you are doing is forcing them to "survive" at the very lowest temperatures they can handle. I knew someone who kept anoles in a plastic critter keeper with no additional lighting or heating and they lived for maybe 2 years until he got bored with them and sold them. Looking at them I would say they seemed pretty healthy and although not mega active would jump about crazy after crix just like I would expect an anole to. Would you say these lizards had been "conditioned" to live in cold conditions? Lastly a pl*co would be a poor choice anyway as 1) They are known to attach themselves to large slow tankmates and feed on their slime coat and being armoured can injure tankmates by banging into them if spooked. A large one could easily pierce the skin of an axy 2) a large pl*co not only needs a large tank with a powerful filter but also produces a lot of waste so it would defeat the purpose keeping it with the axy.

To the OP, sorry but keeping axolotls (as with most phibs) and fish together is a recipe for disaster. If they are too small then they will be eaten and too big can harm the axy by picking at their gills or bashing into them. A larger fish will probably cause just as much if not more waste anyway.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

BornSlippy said:


> Not really. You are not conditioning tropical fish to live in cold water, all you are doing is forcing them to "survive" at the very lowest temperatures they can handle. I knew someone who kept anoles in a plastic critter keeper with no additional lighting or heating and they lived for maybe 2 years until he got bored with them and sold them. Looking at them I would say they seemed pretty healthy and although not mega active would jump about crazy after crix just like I would expect an anole to. Would you say these lizards had been "conditioned" to live in cold conditions? Lastly a pl*co would be a poor choice anyway as 1) They are known to attach themselves to large slow tankmates and feed on their slime coat and being armoured can injure tankmates by banging into them if spooked. A large one could easily pierce the skin of an axy 2) a large pl*co not only needs a large tank with a powerful filter but also produces a lot of waste so it would defeat the purpose keeping it with the axy.
> 
> To the OP, sorry but keeping axolotls (as with most phibs) and fish together is a recipe for disaster. If they are too small then they will be eaten and too big can harm the axy by picking at their gills or bashing into them. A larger fish will probably cause just as much if not more waste anyway.


Interesting. I like the way you worded it and explained everything thoroughly instead of just giving smart-*ss answers like alot of people. Hats-off to you. I have never heard or saw a Pleco sucking the slime coat from another fish or amphibian, but I have heard of Chinese Algae-eaters doing it. Also, just one question...why did you spell "Pleco" with a "*" instead of an "E"??

Also, aren't the Rubber-lip Plecos much smaller and softer bodied and not nearly as armored as others? I would also vote that if u could condition it to live in that temperature a Haplo Catfish would work as long as it's too big to swallow. What are your thoughts? Are you familiar w/ Haplos?


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

I wouldnt put anything with an axie... they will eat anything that moves, that includes eachother! 
Please don't 'condition' a tropical fish to live in coldwater, it just won't work and the fish will suffer. 
Any decent lfs who knows your intentions will not provide you with fish. I know I wouldnt.. at the end of the day I lose a sale, but I know I did the right thing.

I almost always give my customers a grilling before selling to them :lol2:


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> I wouldnt put anything with an axie... they will eat anything that moves, that includes eachother!
> Please don't 'condition' a tropical fish to live in coldwater, it just won't work and the fish will suffer.
> Any decent lfs who knows your intentions will not provide you with fish. I know I wouldnt.. at the end of the day I lose a sale, but I know I did the right thing.
> 
> I almost always give my customers a grilling before selling to them :lol2:


See, I just don't understand that. I set aside about 10 Convicts in my Tiger Salamander vivarium as an experimental colony and not only did they survive at temperatures as low as 55-56 degrees F., and continued regular feeding, but they have also spawned as well. Let's not say the water is COLD, but there is no HEATER in it and they are more or less kept like Goldfish or Bettas that are spoiled, w/ filter, waterfall, live plants, etc. 

In the wild, there are times even in Tropical areas where temperatures may drop very low, so I must concur that many of the hardier Cichlid species and many bottom-feeders are anatomically suited to deal with it should it come up. Take a look at Florida for example: EXTREMELY hot humid Summers over 110 Degrees F., but in the Winter temperatures regularly fall to the 40-50 degree range, and even in the 30's, allowing frosts. Florida has wild populations of over 20 different introduced lizards (including Saharan and sub-Saharan Nile, Savannah and other Monitors) as well as many of their own, at least 30 different species of snakes including Burmese Pythons, and a PLETHORA of Cichlids, Plecos, and other tropical fish that were released by thier irresponsible owners. Not just Central American Cichlids thrive, but also South Americans, the type that are found naturally in the hottest places on the grid. 

Just wanted to share, it may be some food for thought for many of you, and you need to remember that the tank's water temperature changes with seasons. My Tiger's vivarium may drop to 50-some degrees F in the WINTER, but in Spring, Summer and Autumn, it remains between 65-85 degrees,which my Tiger Salamander has suprisingly adapted to very well since they don't like heat. This "natural" fluctuation is also what triggers the spawning responses from the Convicts. I also believe that if they have been kept that way as babies, they will "think" it is normal, as they have not experienced life in another way.


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## Si_C (Dec 30, 2008)

thanks for all the info guys i looked the loach's but there grow just a bit to big an he let me put my hand in the tank let it sit on my hand could feeling it nibble at my hand lol .. wasn't to sure where to go next to talked about about some cleaner fish lol an i now have 3 hong kong plec's living in with the axolotl's been keeping a very close eye on them seem to be getting on fine no problems made plenty of of see space's for the kongs to hide and the axototl 's don't seem to care about them as they are to tough on the out side . 

an the kongs seem more than happy to clean upall the mess .. so all good nows for just cheers for the help ppl


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Well for one it's against OATA rules. Some shops sell danios and guppies for cold water, which just isn't right. I'll stand by what I say. I will not sell any tropical fish to go to an unheated tank.


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## Berber King (Dec 29, 2007)

Axys and fish just dont mix,and large plecs create a mess anyway.Theres no such thing as a "cleaner" fish,they may nibble at algae,but are no substitute for using your hand and scrubbing!


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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Interesting. I like the way you worded it and explained everything thoroughly instead of just giving smart-*ss answers like alot of people. Hats-off to you. I have never heard or saw a Pleco sucking the slime coat from another fish or amphibian, but I have heard of Chinese Algae-eaters doing it. Also, just one question...why did you spell "Pleco" with a "*" instead of an "E"??
> 
> Also, aren't the Rubber-lip Plecos much smaller and softer bodied and not nearly as armored as others? I would also vote that if u could condition it to live in that temperature a Haplo Catfish would work as long as it's too big to swallow. What are your thoughts? Are you familiar w/ Haplos?


As most of the common types grow they tend to eat less of a veggie diet and more of a meaty diet and they do eat a lot. Slower and/or larger fish are often targeted and once they get a taste for slime coat (much like CAE's as you have seen) they will keep eating it. Many oscar owners face this problem as they are a popular combo. Rubber lip pl*cos are much smaller (bite sized) and have high oxygen requirements so are unsuited too. Hoplo catfish again are armoured. I keep 4 hoplo cats (2 pairs) and in one tank I have a pair with large clown loaches who sometimes get scrapes from sharing the same hiding place. Though hoplos would probably not be eaten if large enough they still need tropical conditions and their constant active foraging would not be to the liking of an axy.

Btw I spell "pl*co" like this because of a silly internet superstition that started a long time ago. Apparently if you spell it with an E your pl*co will die. I know it's stupid but at the time I started using it I was keeping a small fortune in fancy L number pl*cos so was taking no chances. All I keep these days are various bristlenoses so I suppose it's time to drop the silly supserstition...tomorrow 



Victor Creed said:


> See, I just don't understand that. I set aside about 10 Convicts in my Tiger Salamander vivarium as an experimental colony and not only did they survive at temperatures as low as 55-56 degrees F., and continued regular feeding, but they have also spawned as well. Let's not say the water is COLD, but there is no HEATER in it and they are more or less kept like Goldfish or Bettas that are spoiled, w/ filter, waterfall, live plants, etc.
> 
> In the wild, there are times even in Tropical areas where temperatures may drop very low, so I must concur that many of the hardier Cichlid species and many bottom-feeders are anatomically suited to deal with it should it come up. Take a look at Florida for example: EXTREMELY hot humid Summers over 110 Degrees F., but in the Winter temperatures regularly fall to the 40-50 degree range, and even in the 30's, allowing frosts. Florida has wild populations of over 20 different introduced lizards (including Saharan and sub-Saharan Nile, Savannah and other Monitors) as well as many of their own, at least 30 different species of snakes including Burmese Pythons, and a PLETHORA of Cichlids, Plecos, and other tropical fish that were released by thier irresponsible owners. Not just Central American Cichlids thrive, but also South Americans, the type that are found naturally in the hottest places on the grid.
> 
> Just wanted to share, it may be some food for thought for many of you, and you need to remember that the tank's water temperature changes with seasons. My Tiger's vivarium may drop to 50-some degrees F in the WINTER, but in Spring, Summer and Autumn, it remains between 65-85 degrees,which my Tiger Salamander has suprisingly adapted to very well since they don't like heat. This "natural" fluctuation is also what triggers the spawning responses from the Convicts. I also believe that if they have been kept that way as babies, they will "think" it is normal, as they have not experienced life in another way.


Convicts are as tough as nails though, I had one live for years after its tail fin was bitten completley off and soon after it lost an eye somehow. It not only survived but became the dominant individual in the group and bred with it's pick of females. I understand what you are saying but for tropical fish to thrive and not just survive they need to be provided with tropical temps. One of my tropical tanks is currently unheated due to a heater fail and it's been like this for almost 2 months and the fish have done ok since it hasnt dropped to danger levels. But now winter is kicking in here it's approaching. My big cichilds seem ok for now but already my congo tetras and hoplos seem to be struggling and stay sedate near the bottom unlike their usual manic selves and seem reluctant to feed. Thankfully my new heater should arrive today or tomorrow :whistling2:

Like you say Florida does have the odd cold snap but tends to stay pretty warm throughout the year. The introduced species that manage to survive are very tolerant but even they succumb when the weather gets too cold. Fish can go to the very deepest parts of the water body they are in to escape the coldest temps. But often in places there are sudden die offs where much of the population of most introduced species dont make it (though there always seems to be some that do as well as hobbyists always willing to repopulate). Last winter many introduced lizards died off, hundreds of pythons and green iguanas were found dead or near death, iguanas were falling out of trees onto peoples cars :gasp:

I do see what you are saying but I don't agree tropical species can be "conditioned" to live in much colder conditions without some kind of negative effects on their long term health.



Si_C said:


> thanks for all the info guys i looked the loach's but there grow just a bit to big an he let me put my hand in the tank let it sit on my hand could feeling it nibble at my hand lol .. wasn't to sure where to go next to talked about about some cleaner fish lol an i now have 3 hong kong plec's living in with the axolotl's been keeping a very close eye on them seem to be getting on fine no problems made plenty of of see space's for the kongs to hide and the axototl 's don't seem to care about them as they are to tough on the out side .
> 
> an the kongs seem more than happy to clean upall the mess .. so all good nows for just cheers for the help ppl


The "hong kong pl*co" is actually a species of loach that come from very cool fast flowing well oxygenated streams and are completely unsuited to living with an amphibian which not needs little or no water movement. If they don't die due to lack of oxygen they will almost definately be eaten by the axy. They are neither armoured nor designed to eat leftover scraps (they live on algae covered rocks where they feed both on this and the micro organisms which colonise it). To be honest you couldnt have picked a worse fish to try and keep with an axy, in fact these fish are even difficult to keep in specially desinged setups due to their specific water and dietary requirements.


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## Si_C (Dec 30, 2008)

yup regrettably one of the plecs ha a run in with the axel (axel won) and im sure im down a zebras or now as well so i have now separated them all to there own tanks no more mixing lesson leard !:bash:


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