# Urgent Hamm Coach Info



## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

*PLEASE NOTE :*​ 
As a result of contact today with Kent County Council Trading Standards Dept, and Animal health, we feel it is important that all our passengers are reminded as to what animals they are permitted to bring back into the UK.

Each passenger is responsible for ensuring their purchases conform with current legislation. Whilst we will give any assistance and advice we can, ultimate responsibility lays with each passenger.

Animals purchased in the EU for your personal collection can be legally imported into the UK subject to CITES rules.

These rules state, briefly, that if the species you are buying is on Annex A or Appendix 1, the seller must supply you with a current original copy of an Article 10 certificate.

If the species is Annex B or Appendix 2, you must obtain from the seller a receipt that clearly shows who sold the animal, how much for and that it is captive bred and not taken from the wild.

Apart from a few species, Annex C & D or Appendix 3 & 4 do not have any special requirements, but we as organisers suggest you get receipts for ALL livestock, and that ALL livestock is labelled with the correct Latin name. 

For some reason, Animal Health have advised Kent Trading Standards that Primates may be imported via our trip.

This may be as a result of sour grapes, or indeed some underhanded scheme.

ONLY REPTILES, AMPHIBIANS AND INVERTS ARE PERMITTED ON THE COACH.

We are in contact with Both Animal Health and Trading Standards, who are both happy with our plans. We have also agreed to work fully with them to stop illegal imports via our trips. Anyone found breaking these rules will be removed from the coach and reported.

There is a high probability that we will be stopped on the way back, and therefore ask all passengers to adhere to our rules, complete the species list correctly (will be handed out on the coach) and observe any other rules. This will ensure a swift passage through customs.

Please be assured, if the rules are kept to, you will have no problems bringing your animals back. Only if you break the rules will there be problems, and two coach loads of people who wont be to happy with you!




Further information can be found at the following links :

http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml List of restricted species

http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/transport/rp3.shtml Transport guides

http://www.ukcites.gov.uk/intro/default.htm CITES website.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

To the readership here, as you can see PJ has stated what animals can be brought back through via the coach.

The line

"For some reason, Animal Health have advised Kent Trading Standards that Primates may be imported via our trip."

Should not be acted upon by those not travelling via normal transport.

Primates are a quarantinable species from outside UK, and if you are caught with this species, the penalties are huge, and far reaching.

All primates entering the UK must be brought in by licenced quarantine vehicles, or met from the ferry by licenced quarantine vehicles.

All primates would also need to be accompanied by paperwork and cites documents, for most of the primates in EU are under cites.

So do not even be tempted on/in this one.

R


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## ade (Mar 7, 2007)

Were does it tell you whats on sites and apendix on the above site's stressing i'm going to get somthing and i should have paper work. I can'nt seem to find it?


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

ade said:


> Were does it tell you whats on sites and apendix on the above site's stressing i'm going to get somthing and i should have paper work. I can'nt seem to find it?


Introduction - CITES Species

Scroll down to the bottom where it says publications
its in pdf 


or there is this one
Welcome to CITES


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

ade said:


> Were does it tell you whats on sites and apendix on the above site's stressing i'm going to get somthing and i should have paper work. I can'nt seem to find it?


 
the first link takes you directly to the species list, just scroll down to find the reptile etc.

Pm t-barn with the latin and he will check for you


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## ade (Mar 7, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> the first link takes you directly to the species list, just scroll down to find the reptile etc.
> 
> Pm t-barn with the latin and he will check for you


Thanks had a quick browse think i might be ok if get stuck i will do.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

I have just got two emails from AH , diff depts.

The first confirms our view on import requirements regarding CITES

The second confirms our view on animal transportation.

Just waiting on the quranteen team and HMCE to reply, and we already know what the reply will be, but to have it in writing is great.

AS with the whole hobby, dont suffer from apathy, look into the species your wanting to get, know the laws and stick to them, no one can do anything about it if your not breaking the rules.

With regards to our little green striped back snake in the grass, if we need any advice in breaking rules we shall ask as you and your org seem to know all about it.


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

It has come to our ntention that one of our passengers intends to buy loads of snakes to sell to a rather well known and dislikes pet shop in essex, (w,,,,s), and going to pack them in sacks to save space and squeeze them in his allocated boxes,

*THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN*

*Al boxes have to be checked prior to loading and you need to fill an inventry form in for customs*

*ANYONE FOUND BREAKING THE RULES WILL BE LEFT IN GERMANY*

*Transportation of Animals 
1. The transport of animals on the coach is covered by our SVS animal transport licence. 
2. We will NOT cover animals obtained for resell, or for 3rd party collection where a collection fee is payable in any way.
3. Any animals covered under the above are deemed as a commercial activity and as such are due to have VAT, and other such fees, paid upon the return to the UK. We will not provide any assistance in this matter save to ensure other passengers are not effected or delayed. 
4. Any charges raised by HMC are the responsibility of the animal owners. 
5. Passengers are advised to get receipts for ALL livestock, and to make sure they have all the cities paperwork needed for any livestock purchased. 
6. The organisers will not be held responsible for any seizures by customs for any reason. 
7. In order to cover any animals as above, we will request an inventory form be completed showing the contents of any boxes you lay claim to. This will assist the whole coach in the case of inquiry from customs 
8. Passengers are responsible for packing their boxes securely to avoid death or damage to their livestock and the organisers will not be held responsible for any damage or deaths that occur for any reason. All livestock should be clearly and accuratley labled with Latin names to aid identification. 
9. No DWA species may be carried unless the owner provides a copy of their DWA licence, in advance, all other paperwork is in order, the animal(s) are securely contained and travel on the lower deck with the organisers.
10. This is a reptile, amphibian and insect hobbyist show trip, and as such we will not permitt the carriage of any species other than reptile, amphibian or insect under ANY circumstances. Any passenger found to be breaching this rule WILL be reported and full assistance provided to the authorities involved

Sorry if there is a lotof shouting in this thread but it [email protected]@es me off that some one is willing to put everyone else in jeapardy to make a few quid!!​*


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

sorry if its been covered in the thread but what are the laws on bringing in rodents? I dont mean on the coach just in general


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

All i can tell you is what I know, which is not not much!

i understand that domestcated rodents can be brought through customs ok.


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## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

tarantulabarn said:


> It has come to our ntention that one of our passengers intends to buy loads of snakes to sell to a rather well known and dislikes pet shop in essex, (w,,,,s), and going to pack them in sacks to save space and squeeze them in his allocated boxes,
> 
> *THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN*
> 
> ...



So I gather point 2 on this list will affect quite a few of your party or do you make exceptions for certain individuals.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

fazer600sy said:


> So I gather point 2 on this list will affect quite a few of your party or do you make exceptions for certain individuals.


OK, let me clarify it.

Its our transport licence that is in use. We are legally bound to ensure that ALL animals are fit for transport and are transported in accordance with the guide lines.

Both our licences permit us to transport livestock for commercial activities.

We have taken the descision NOT to generally cover animals on our license for commercial activities. Thats our choice. It was taken because we do not want to risk everyone being delayed or subject to inspection unduly.

Commercial activity has many effects, not just the sheer act of bringing the animals back, but in other areas as well, such as import duties and space.

A number of people have approached us with differing questions, some of which we have denied, others which we have allowed, depending on the circumstances and based upon advice from Inland Revenue and Customs.

In one case, an extra seat has had to be purchased to cover the space issue. 

The issue that has brought this to the forfront involves the purchase of animals to sell on at a profit to one outlet, and the planned way of transporting them.

Our rules are made to protect everyone on our trips, it is not possible to make rules for every single situation, so as and when we have been approached, we have looked into each case on it merits and made a decision based on those merits and advice from different legal bodies.

Whilst we may or may not agree with the laws in the country, we are duty bound to observe them, and will take any steps needed to protect our passengers.

The last thing we want is someone to buy animals and be hit with large import duties at customs, IR investigations, or animal welfare issues.

We have already pointed out some issues on this very thread, and yet still someone was planning on breaking our rules, and trying to hide it from us.

If people are totally honest with us, and talk to us, we can help overcome any possible problems and ensure they do indeed stay with in the law.

The reptile hobby as a whole is under enough presure with out us giving a 'free for all do what you want aslong as you pay us' trip

If anyone has concearns or wishes to discuss individual situations, then we are always availble, via pms on rfuk, direct email or via the web site.

Hope that clarifys our posistion.

Tony


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Ok, an update.

By working closely with different agencies, we have so far identified at least 3 possible passengers that present a risk to themsleves (and a delay to everyone)

We DO know your plans, we are aware and WILL be checking.

At this stage, you have done nothing wrong, please keep it that way and keep the reptile hobby untarnished by your self indulgent and/or get rich quick schemes.

Please, dont let the hobby, your fellow passengers, us, and yourselves down.


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Are the rules the same for every person on the coaches, no exceptions?


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## Hamish (Jun 17, 2007)

Something that TB and PJ have not pointed out is the fact that if people dont like the rules TB and PJ have regarding the trip that TB and PJ have spent so much time organising for people like me (who couldnt even think about how i would do it on my own) and many others, those thinking that said rules are to harsh have the freedom and the right not to go on the coaches but instead make their own way to hamm and take whatever chances they want in their own vehicles.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Young_Gun said:


> Are the rules the same for every person on the coaches, no exceptions?


I dont quite understand why you have asked the same question as fazer? Are you wanting to smuggle something in, and want our permission? or to jam 100 snakes into one tesco shopping bag to fool everyone into thinking you only have a few?

As we have said many times, our 'rules' regarding the animal side of things are based on the law of the United Kingdom.

Although both steve and I are really great guys, even we are not above the law and can not give special permission to any one to effectivly smuggle animals into the UK.

If some one has special requests, and we can accomodate that with out affecting other passengers or transgressing the law, we will try to help.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Hamish said:


> Something that TB and PJ have not pointed out is the fact that if people dont like the rules TB and PJ have regarding the trip that TB and PJ have spent so much time organising for people like me (who couldnt even think about how i would do it on my own) and many others, those thinking that said rules are to harsh have the freedom and the right not to go on the coaches but instead make their own way to hamm and take whatever chances they want in their own vehicles.


 
Yes, indeed.

Thanks for your support, it is getting somewhat , shall we say annoying.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

If you know who these people are and what their intentions are, give 'em their seat money back and don't take them.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Personally, although not travelling this time (but intending to at a later date) I would Like to THANK both Tony and Steve, for all the effort and work they are putting into arranging this great service for our hobby. 

The rules here are loosely the same as the rules for transporting them in your own vehicle, But due to the nature of the trip they are slightly more strict, which i welcome. 

The last thing the hobby needs is a "SUN" headline along the lines of "150 reptile keeping nutters have been stopped at customs for smuggling reptiles (etc) into the UK" 

Or somthing like that.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

stuartdouglas said:


> If you know who these people are and what their intentions are, give 'em their seat money back and don't take them.


We have considered this action, but as yet they have not broken any rules, theres just the chance they may try, so in all honesty, we dont have reason to ban them.

We are changing the rules slightly for the next trip, as with everything, they evolve, and we will then reserve the right to refuse a booking.

However, I am hoping that these involved are just misguided and once aware that thier actions are wrong, will reconsider and not try anything.

Everyone makes mistakes, Its just a mistake in this area has huge consiquences.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

darkdan99 said:


> Personally, although not travelling this time (but intending to at a later date) I would Like to THANK both Tony and Steve, for all the effort and work they are putting into arranging this great service for our hobby.
> 
> The rules here are loosely the same as the rules for transporting them in your own vehicle, But due to the nature of the trip they are slightly more strict, which i welcome.
> 
> ...


Spot on Dan, thanks

We both try to support our legal hobby against the antis in whatever way we can, and are not about to throw all that away for the sake of turning a blind eye.

Some people have a bee in thier bonnet about certain passengers, but have as yet refused to come forward in pm and explain the problem !


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## Jake89 (May 30, 2007)

Tony i have just PM'd you regarding one of the rules .
Jake : victory:


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> I dont quite understand why you have asked the same question as fazer? Are you wanting to smuggle something in, and want our permission? or to jam 100 snakes into one tesco shopping bag to fool everyone into thinking you only have a few?
> 
> As we have said many times, our 'rules' regarding the animal side of things are based on the law of the United Kingdom.
> 
> ...


No I won't be trying to smuggle anything in that I shouldn't nor would I stick more animals that can comfortable fit in the housing they are sold in into a poly box.

I was just asking if every body on the coaches has to adhere to the rules, with no exceptions.

I don't have a problem with your rules, and to be fair, with the amount of animals that will be getting brought back on the coach the rules are very lenient and small in number.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Young_Gun said:


> No I won't be trying to smuggle anything in that I shouldn't nor would I stick more animals that can comfortable fit in the housing they are sold in into a poly box.
> 
> I was just asking if every body on the coaches has to adhere to the rules, with no exceptions.
> 
> I don't have a problem with your rules, and to be fair, with the amount of animals that will be getting brought back on the coach the rules are very lenient and small in number.


Yeah, sorry , that may have come over a little harsh and directed at you, it sure wasnt.

Just it all really makes me mad that these people know what they are planning is wrong, yet dont care about us others, and there seems to be some thoughts out there on msn that we are bending or breaking the rules for some and not others, yet those that are saying this dont have the b**ls to ask us directly.

Its all good though, should they go ahead with thier plans its entertainment for the rest of us watching them standing in the car park as we drive off !! :lol2:


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> Its all good though, should they go ahead with thier plans its entertainment for the rest of us watching them standing in the car park as we drive off !! :lol2:


haha nah more fun leaving them with customs and driving off :Na_Na_Na_Na:


luke


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

lukendaniel said:


> haha nah more fun leaving them with customs and driving off :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> 
> luke


mmm, i am torn between just leaving them, or letting them think they have got away with it !


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> mmm, i am torn between just leaving them, or letting them think they have got away with it !


 



depends how evil you want to be and how much they deserve what they get 


luke


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