# just enquiering



## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

hi guys, well i am getting a new beardie soon, a baby one. i have been advised that juvinile bearded dragon dry food is ok for it, but was just wondering, if i should get some and put in viv all the time, so that when its not due greens or live insects its got something to nibble when it wants, 

also is it best to get into a routine of feeding at set times during the day,

should the beardie be given live food once a day or twice a day. and veg. should that be done once a day or twice a day

thanks for reading, and thanks for any advice

p.s. i know everyone does different so am just wanting ideas thanks again:welcome:


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## colby4898 (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi,

I personally am not a fan of the dry food and I much prefer giving them insects and veg.

In terms of how many time you feed them a day it doesn't matter as long as theyre getting the right quantity. If your feeding crickets I would suggest maybe 7 a day. Locusts 5. But thats a rough guide. It's been 6 years since mine was a juvenile so i can't remember too well

I always have veg on offer sprinkled in calcium. I usually offer a mix of rocket, spinach and water cress. You can also dust te insects in the powder as well.

I hope this has been of some use, sorry it's not very detailed.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

As above I do not reckon much to the dry foods and most beardies will just ignore it.



> should the beardie be given live food once a day or twice a day. and veg. should that be done once a day or twice a day


Veg should be fed once a day and left in until it either gets eaten or needs throwing away. Always put fresh veg in every day. If he is under 3 months of age he will need feeding with insects at least twice a day with as many as he will eat in around 10 mins. Babies can usually manage size 2 crickets and very small locusts.



> also is it best to get into a routine of feeding at set times during the day


I usually feed mine early afternoon that way they have had time to warm up and be ready for food. You dont have to be exact with your routine but it is okay to stick to a reasonable schedule. Never feed any food less than one after heat and lights have been put on and never any more than one hour before lights out. This is for digestion purposes.


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## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

i have never tried dried food so cant comment on it , however baby bearded dragons grow very quick so need lots of food as a baby it needs fed two or three times a day as much livefood (crickets are cheapest) as it will eat in aprox 10 minutes then as it gets older 2 feeds a day then as a adult once a day then once every other day (once it eats all veg) ,, veg should be given every day fresh even if its not eaten still put it in .

i feed mine veg in the morning and livefood 3 times a week now they are adults 

dont forget to dust all food with calcium(5 times a week) and nutrobal(2 times a week)


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

thanks all, so ill not get the dry food then, oh i been advised on calcium powder too whats the best one to get. 

and how often should you handle a baby beardie. i have had beardies in the past but they were adults. i have never raised them from a baby so i dont know


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

calcium is just calcium, just buy whatever one you want, but not a "multivitamin" one, just pure calcium powder

agree with above, beardies should eat 50% insects and 50% fresh veg - the suggestion above about feeding veg first, before feeding insects is a good one, it can help avoid problems with fussy eaters, as veg is very important for hydration and nutrients


have you got a UVB tube ready to go? very important it has access to the right level of UVB



regarding handling - avoid handling until it gets used to you, so feed it, clean up, change water etc and wait until its no longer scared of you, then try putting a piece of food in your hand for it to eat...patience will buid trust between you both


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

thanks, as for the uvb, the viv i am getting comes with full set up, as i am a novice and i didnt know which one was the right one. so asked the shop and it will come with full set up.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

job30 said:


> thanks, as for the uvb, the viv i am getting comes with full set up, as i am a novice and i didnt know which one was the right one. so asked the shop and it will come with full set up.


cool, although, I wouldnt trust a shop...a few shops are good, but most are useless and send people off with completly the wrong kit :whistling2:

heres a checklist for ya to make sure it really is a full setup...



4ft vivarium (you can use smaller to start with, but theres not much point, even a baby beardie will use a full 4ft enclosure, and theres not much difference in price if you buy online - you will only have to buy a bigger viv within a year if you start smaller)
heat lamp, i'd recomend Halogen Flood with frosted glass, standard 42W will probably do it, but you may need to experiment depending on your house temps (or ceramic heater...light heaters are allot more efficient tho)
high range dimming thermostat (or high range pulse if using ceramic heater)
12% UVB tube and Tube starter (power supply) (cant go wrong with a T8 Arcadia setup)
water bowl
3 hides (one cool, one warm, one humid)
substrate (anything for reptiles, but not Calci-Sand)
digital thermometer with probe, or an IR gun thermometer
tub of pure calcium powder
you will also want lots of decor like branches, rocks etc, the more the better for a young beardie to climb, get excersize and feel secure (able to hide easily if it wants to)

basking spot should be set to 45-46C (that is the temp of the substrate directly below the heater, not air temp), UVB tube and heater on a timer for 12hrs a day (you can vary this through the year, for example less during the winter when the Beardie starts to Brumate (bit like hibernation))


you can almost certainly get all of the above for about 1/2 the price online, compared to buying in a shop  espcially if you buy a full kit (check out Swell Reptiles, not the cheapest, but they are pretty reliable, and have kits available)


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

its a specialist shop. not a normal pet shop. deals only with reptiles n fish


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

its 200 for full set up a glass viv and beardie


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

job30 said:


> its 200 for full set up a glass viv and beardie


Do you have a link for it because I don't know of a glass viv that is big enough for an adult beardie - and for £200 you should be getting the full life time setup. Just make sure you're getting the right thing


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

its not a specialist reptile store if they are recomending a Glass tank for a beardie :bash:


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> cool, although, I wouldnt trust a shop...a few shops are good, but most are useless and send people off with completly the wrong kit :whistling2:
> 
> heres a checklist for ya to make sure it really is a full setup...
> 
> ...


Out of Interest Cloud what's wrong with calci-sand?
I'm fairly new to reptiles had my beardie for a couple of months now and have been keeping him on calci-sand as that is what he was kept on in the store and they recommended it?
What would you recommend instead? he's quite the digger so preferably something he can get his claws into that isn't my hand :lol2:


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Dentts said:


> Out of Interest Cloud what's wrong with calci-sand?
> I'm fairly new to reptiles had my beardie for a couple of months now and have been keeping him on calci-sand as that is what he was kept on in the store and they recommended it?
> What would you recommend instead? he's quite the digger so preferably something he can get his claws into that isn't my hand :lol2:


the calcium in calci-sand is sticky and lumps together, and carries a higher risk of impaction than other substrates

standard sand (play sand), sand/soil, or pretty much any othe substrate is fine - as long as the beardie has access to the right temps (minimum 45-46C basking temp, thats the temp of the substrate directly below heater), and has a well balanced diet including 50% hydrating veg, a wide range of veg is prefrable to provide all the nutirients, fibre, sugars, salts and water needed

impaction can occour with any substrate, but it is almost always down to not having the above husbandry just right, rather than the substrate itself (with the exception of calci-sand which builds up and forms lumps)

hope that helps 

a top soil/sand mix (play sand is prefrable) can provide an excellent digging substrate, a mix of 60/40-70/30 can provide a good digging substrate which will hold burrows - obviously for a beardie you dont want to keep it to wet, the moisture from the top soil should be enough to allow you to compact the substrate down (use a large flat stone to compress it) and get it to stick together....ventilation is key with this sort of substrate, beardies of course need it to be mostly dry, a little humdity isnt harmful for a while as long as there is good ventilation (for eg rather than just a few vents at the back, a full strip of ventilation along the front at the top and bottom is prefrable)


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

its not an online shop, so no link, its a 4 foot glass tank, with full set up


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## Badgerroy (Mar 16, 2015)

job30 said:


> thanks all, so ill not get the dry food then, oh i been advised on calcium powder too whats the best one to get.


I'd avoid dry food, it's easyer for the keeper but I don't believe it's any good the the reptile, and for calcium iv always used cuttlefish very finely grated and then crushed into powder.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

job30 said:


> its not an online shop, so no link, its a 4 foot glass tank, with full set up


glass tanks are not really suitable for large lizards, for a great many reasons (lots of threads about it on here, if you want to know why, run a search)

I am assuming that this tank is 1ft high and deep? which is not large enough either

if you havent already ordered, then look for a wooden setup (4x2x2ft), if you have already ordered, then give the shop a call/email and ask to change the order - if you have already recieved it, and it was advertised as specifically for bearded dragons, then I'd send it back and ask for a wooden enclosure as a replacement


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Have to agree a glass tank is no good and you need a wooden viv as suggested.


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> the calcium in calci-sand is sticky and lumps together, and carries a higher risk of impaction than other substrates
> 
> standard sand (play sand), sand/soil, or pretty much any othe substrate is fine - as long as the beardie has access to the right temps (minimum 45-46C basking temp, thats the temp of the substrate directly below heater), and has a well balanced diet including 50% hydrating veg, a wide range of veg is prefrable to provide all the nutirients, fibre, sugars, salts and water needed
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot cloud looks like I'm of to the gardening center this weekend. will get him off the calci sand and hopefully it will make his viv a bit more interesting as he seems a bit board and has been glass surfing quite a bit lately. 

In regards to the venting my viv only has four holes at the back so guess I will be getting the power tools out. always looking for a good excuse.  Any recommendations on installing new vents? I was thinking maybe getting a hole saw and adding them that way. Can you have too much ventilation with a beardie?


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Dentts said:


> Thanks a lot cloud looks like I'm of to the gardening center this weekend. will get him off the calci sand and hopefully it will make his viv a bit more interesting as he seems a bit board and has been glass surfing quite a bit lately.
> 
> In regards to the venting my viv only has four holes at the back so guess I will be getting the power tools out. always looking for a good excuse.  Any recommendations on installing new vents? I was thinking maybe getting a hole saw and adding them that way. Can you have too much ventilation with a beardie?


you cant really have to much ventilation for these guys no, although, be aware of any drafts in the room, and keep an extra close eye on the tempretures

The simplest way to add new vents is to use a Hole Saw drill bit, perhaps have 2 holes on each side wall, 2 at the top on the side of the heater, and 2 at the bottom on the cool side (this will provide a natural air flow, warm air out the top, which will pull fresh air in the other side)

once you have cut the holes, you can just slot in ready made vivarium vent covers (available on ebay for eg)...i'd get the vent covers first, just to be sure of the size, you want a nice snug fit 

(vents which are closable are also worth considering, so you can increase/decrease airflow depending on temps/season/humidity etc - but not essential, blocking a vent isnt difficult if needed)

*edit:* (if the vent covers dont have good strong clips, you might want to silicone them in too)


If he is spending allot of time on the glass, its worth considering the setup again to see if anything can be improved for him, perhaps he could do with lots more decor, or a larger enclosure, also double check the tempretures - it could just be that time of year, but always worth checking everything is within spec (esp as temps are going up now) and also making sure he's not bored by providing plenty of stimulation for him in the viv

(try to avoid letting him out when he's on the glass tho, or he could learn that is a way to get out and may hurt himself one day if he doesnt get a response)


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

we dont want a wooden one because it holds the smell when the beardie has pooped even if you clean it out thorouly i believe it is a 4x2x2ft exo terra glass tank, i trust the specilaists shop and will continue to trust them


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

job30 said:


> we dont want a wooden one because it holds the smell when the beardie has pooped even if you clean it out thorouly i believe it is a 4x2x2ft exo terra glass tank, i trust the specilaists shop and will continue to trust them


their poop smells, thats just something you have to get used to i'm afraid, regardless of the type of enclosure, whatever room it is in, is going to stink for a good 30-40minutes after it goes to the toilet, even if you clean it up as soon as it goes - and if you clean up in a wooden enclosure (generally Melamine, with a Plastic laminate, not bare wood) properly, then lingering smells shouldnt be an issue

If it is an Exo Terra, then it is only 3ft long, thats the widest they do, and is not large enough for an adult bearded dragon - their 3x1x3ft might just about give enough space if it was well enough designed inside (with lots of levels/branches), although it wont hold heat well at all (one of the main reasons glass is not recomend for this species)

if it is one of their 3x1x1, then its definitly to small...your trust is misplaced - take a look through all the bearded dragon threads on this forum, see how many sick beardies there are as a result of pet shop advice :whistling2:


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

it dont matter now not getting one, stupid local council say we need permission for one even tho its in a tank,


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

job30 said:


> it dont matter now not getting one, stupid local council say we need permission for one even tho its in a tank,


so no one got nothing to critisize me for now have they. not getting one so no need for critisim:notworthy:


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

job30 said:


> so no one got nothing to critisize me for now have they. not getting one so no need for critisim:notworthy:


What you see as criticism other people see as trying to be helpful and make sure that both you and your lizard get what is the best option available. People don't post here because they like being mean.. they're genuinely trying to help because they care about quality reptile keeping in the UK.


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

My beardie is in a wooden viv. The problem with glass is that too much heat escapes from it. Which is why a wooden viv is ideal for a beardie. 

Their feces stinks no matter what the enclosure is made out of. Providing you clean it up appropriatley the smell will soon dissapear regardless of the enclosure material. 

I don't understand your comment about the local council saying you can't have one, are you not based in the UK? As far as I'm aware there are currently no restrictions on owning a beardie. Infact the only time the council may object to you keeping somthing is if it falls into the DWA category and I'm quite confident a beardie is not classes as a DWA.

As has been said the people here are only trying to help not to offend or be mean. It's someone perhaps trying to stop you making the same mistakes they did.


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## Badgerroy (Mar 16, 2015)

job30 said:


> so no one got nothing to critisize me for now have they. not getting one so no need for critisim:notworthy:


The biggest criticism iv got is you sounding like a stroppy 10 year old with whole "stupid local council" bit.
I can visualise you stamping your feet as you typed it out.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

If your local housing assiciation wants you to ask permission first, just do it, most of the time they are nice about it, and dont class reptiles in enclosures the same way they do dogs and cats (which they can be very strict on); no need to give up on a dream for the sake of asking perimission! do it in wiriting if you dont fancy a phone call, you can get the address on their website, and the post office will do the rest 


please dont take my comments negativly, they are intended to help you make good choices, so that you have a long and happy relationship with your Beardie over the next 20+ years - we see many people come here with the same kind of setup as you and they all have beardies suffering health or behavioural problems, I appriciate that it might seem strange, that the type of enclosure would cause this, but it does, and we've all spent many years learning this, averging 30-20 years from what I can tell of most people  (and as pointed out, we've all made mistakes starting out)


thats a dedication you wont find in many shops


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

Badgerroy said:


> The biggest criticism iv got is you sounding like a stroppy 10 year old with whole "stupid local council" bit.
> I can visualise you stamping your feet as you typed it out.


:devil:


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> If your local housing assiciation wants you to ask permission first, just do it, most of the time they are nice about it, and dont class reptiles in enclosures the same way they do dogs and cats (which they can be very strict on); no need to give up on a dream for the sake of asking perimission! do it in wiriting if you dont fancy a phone call, you can get the address on their website, and the post office will do the rest
> 
> 
> please dont take my comments negativly, they are intended to help you make good choices, so that you have a long and happy relationship with your Beardie over the next 20+ years - we see many people come here with the same kind of setup as you and they all have beardies suffering health or behavioural problems, I appriciate that it might seem strange, that the type of enclosure would cause this, but it does, and we've all spent many years learning this, averging 30-20 years from what I can tell of most people  (and as pointed out, we've all made mistakes starting out)
> ...


its rotherham borough council, it states in tenancy that permision is needed only for a cat or a dog, and as the new tenancy is not brought out until july we have to go by old one, but our housing champion is a bitch, and she says we even need permision if we get a gold fish, 

it may sound to someone who more than likely has never had to deal with it, that i am stamping my feet, but the truth is in the area we live there are people with pets who have never asked permission and they get away with it, but we want one in a tank so no mess is gonna get in house n we have to have permision 

so now it is by by dream.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

i've dealt with housing associations, and local councils, yep they want you to ask permission for everything, (for their own insurance purposes mainly, everything has to be Risk Assessed) - doesnt mean you cant have a beardie, it just means you have to let them know first that you want one; just find out what the conditions are for getting permission (look it up online...ringing them up doesnt always get the answers you need, but its worth a try), then write to them and get permission


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

CloudForest said:


> i've dealt with housing associations, and local councils, yep they want you to ask permission for everything, (for their own insurance purposes mainly, everything has to be Risk Assessed) - doesnt mean you cant have a beardie, it just means you have to let them know first that you want one; just find out what the conditions are for getting permission (look it up online...ringing them up doesnt always get the answers you need, but its worth a try), then write to them and get permission


you dont know rotherham council. our housing champion is a difficult one, she lets some get away without permission for pets then theres those she has issues with and is a jobs worth, but others she is ok with. im one she has issues with and is a jobs worth. 

its a case of if your face fits


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## Badgerroy (Mar 16, 2015)

job30 said:


> you dont know rotherham council. our housing champion is a difficult one, she lets some get away without permission for pets then theres those she has issues with and is a jobs worth, but others she is ok with. im one she has issues with and is a jobs worth.
> 
> its a case of if your face fits


Im sorry but no I don't accept that. Iv worked in the public service sector and that is just not how it's run. If and I do mean if she really is like that then you need to be asking to speak to her manager and if need be there manager Etc as ANYONE who works in the pss has to be 100% unbiased, If a council employee was to behave like your saying she is behaving then it needs to be brought to managements attention. If she is like your saying she is and you don't report it then it's a case of why moan about something your not willing to stand up and stop. Below is a photo of the keeping pets section on Rotherham councils tenant agreement. \
\
\
Read section B and if none of that applies to you ask why you have been refused permission and say you want it in writing. Always ask for anything in writing as that makes it official and more often than not someone who's willing to make a snap decision and just say no will think again when asked for it in writing.


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## job30 (Mar 23, 2015)

Badgerroy said:


> Im sorry but no I don't accept that. Iv worked in the public service sector and that is just not how it's run. If and I do mean if she really is like that then you need to be asking to speak to her manager and if need be there manager Etc as ANYONE who works in the pss has to be 100% unbiased, If a council employee was to behave like your saying she is behaving then it needs to be brought to managements attention. If she is like your saying she is and you don't report it then it's a case of why moan about something your not willing to stand up and stop. Below is a photo of the keeping pets section on Rotherham councils tenant agreement. \
> [URL=http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j399/Badgerroy123/image.jpg1_zpsnmotdund.jpg]image[/URL]\
> \
> Read section B and if none of that applies to you ask why you have been refused permission and say you want it in writing. Always ask for anything in writing as that makes it official and more often than not someone who's willing to make a snap decision and just say no will think again when asked for it in writing.





sorry but its my business i did not need all this, all i said was she wont let me have any pet but will allow other on the estate. i have reported her but she is still like it, 

i wont be getting one thats all that matters


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

job30 said:


> sorry but its my business i did not need all this, all i said was she wont let me have any pet but will allow other on the estate. i have reported her but she is still like it,
> 
> i wont be getting one thats all that matters


you seem to be taking things very negativly, no one is attacking you or trying to give you a hard time, we're trying to explain to you that being told "you need permission" does not automtically mean you cannot have one, it just means you have to ask the right person


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## Badgerroy (Mar 16, 2015)

I think you need to do a lot of growing up with your attitude before you own any animal. Maybe this is the reason she says you can't have one!


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