# My new enclosure



## jacksp

I put more hides because he is like drop in the ocean and maybe i change the screen with something like plastic or glass to keep more humidity and temperature in the cold days and for protection of his head and body... a standard setup because i want to clean fast i think about bioactive but im afraid of the plant illnesses at 60 70 humidity all the time.. What you think? I didn't post the other photos of the project i think is very simple to make it osb 18 wood with a pet friendly water soluble varnish


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## Malc

How are you heating it ?


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## jacksp

Malc said:


> How are you heating it ?


I have a heat mat with habistat mat stat because is summer and i think ceramic emiter or radiation heater at september


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## Malc

I'm not that great when it comes to flags, so have no idea of your location, but if you are in warm country where the ambient air temps don't drop below 27c at night then you should be OK. Otherwise would still use a ceramic (guarded) on a pulse proportional or dimmer stat. If your daytime temp exceeds 32c then the thermostat will cut off anyway.


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## jacksp

Malc said:


> I'm not that great when it comes to flags, so have no idea of your location, but if you are in warm country where the ambient air temps don't drop below 27c at night then you should be OK. Otherwise would still use a ceramic (guarded) on a pulse proportional or dimmer stat. If your daytime temp exceeds 32c then the thermostat will cut off anyway.


Yes at this time sure don't drop below from september i must see it again.. We have a lot humidity in greece so i think both emiter with a pulse thermostat and the heat mat with mat stat


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## ian14

What snake are you planning on keeping in there?


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## jacksp

ian14 said:


> What snake are you planning on keeping in there?


Α boa


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## Jibbajabba

Looking at the picture and the size of the boa I would suggest adding another hide - put one on top of theatmat and the other on the colder side ...


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## jacksp

Jibbajabba said:


> Looking at the picture and the size of the boa I would suggest adding another hide - put one on top of theatmat and the other on the colder side ...


Yes i i have three of cork bark 2 small one big in the middle and now i put 3 more and tge bowl that have holes and go for sheddings i haven t it at photo i see then that he is small enough for this hides but i see him all the morning at bamboo and at night on the ground... now i want put out the screen and find something like plexiglass to keep better the humidity and temperature.. Now i do a check to see what is better


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## ian14

jacksp said:


> Α boa


Then a mat is completely wrong. Heavy bodied snakes are at sig ificant risk of burns as they will lay on the mat to get warm, but their body mass means that they burn.
Mats so do not warm the air. They are contact heaters.
You should be looking to use a ceramic heater on a dimming stat. This will warm the air, and provide the correct environment. 
It is quite difficult for us in the UK to advise how to keep in a country like Greece with a hotter and drier climate but the care needs of the snake are the same.
Mat, no.
Ceramic on a pulse or dimming stat, yes.


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## jacksp

ian14 said:


> Then a mat is completely wrong. Heavy bodied snakes are at sig ificant risk of burns as they will lay on the mat to get warm, but their body mass means that they burn.
> Mats so do not warm the air. They are contact heaters.
> You should be looking to use a ceramic heater on a dimming stat. This will warm the air, and provide the correct environment.
> It is quite difficult for us in the UK to advise how to keep in a country like Greece with a hotter and drier climate but the care needs of the snake are the same.
> Mat, no.
> Ceramic on a pulse or dimming stat, yes.


Ok i understand i don t know it about the heavy body snakes.. The climate isn't t so much problem it's a controlled environment i do a test with no screen and with plexiglass at the holes is more easy


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## Malc

Have a read of these two sticky posts

General care and husbandry for Common Boa's

Basic guide to heating


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## Troopbd

I'm not slamming on you at all, but did you research basic husbandry and needs for boas? That setup is all wrong in a couple different ways. Please research a little more, for the snakes sake. I can answer any questions you might have if you need me to, just ask.


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## jacksp

Troopbd said:


> I'm not slamming on you at all, but did you research basic husbandry and needs for boas? That setup is all wrong in a couple different ways. Please research a little more, for the snakes sake. I can answer any questions you might have if you need me to, just ask.


Yes i read a lot, the only that i haven't read is about heating that the heavy body snakes want ceramic or heat panel as a heat source so in the end of the month that i have to clean the cage i change heat source with a ceramic bulb and i haven't all of the setup at the photos that i post and i do some changes ... This is a final size terrarium for a baby boa i can separate it in the middle and use the half for less "stress" but i prefer to do it with more hides and i see no different habits of the animal,i have 32 degrees at hot side on the bottom with thermostat and 29 at cold side, at night cold side be at 27 28 and humidity 50 60 and is better with plexiglass than screen i have change it, i have 3 hides at cold 3 hides at hot side and one big in the middle (to feel more safety) and 2 bamboo wood for more exploring all was sterile some from oven and some with bleach method and herp easy for substrate the best for me is to make bioactive setup but i didn't think it until i make it but when i see it i prefer this factory setup because you can keep it always clean and sterile... so from your opinion what can i change?


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## mooselee

When you think that not an insignificant number of people keep boas in RUBS and racks all their lives, I don't think it's a terrible set up.


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## jacksp

mooselee said:


> When you think that not an insignificant number of people keep boas in RUBS and racks all their lives, I don't think it's a terrible set up.


I think of this sometimes about the space of all of captive animal wants, and i think that even a mourning gecko have a whole room with a lot of hides and right temperature and humidity can live a very nice life..sure i don' t believe that this animals wants specific enclosure sizes if you can create something bigger and you can provide the needs


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## jacksp

i
II think now is a little bit better from the beginning with a pulse thermostat and a 150w ceramic bulb, hot at 32c cold at 26c and 50 to 60 humidity


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## jacksp

And after from all the changes i have very nice temperature and steady humidity the wire screen help (isn t the most handsome that you ever seen but the bulb helps a lot inside than before) and the secret is this old oven pan for a temporary period that don t left himidity and temperature to go out


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## jeremy68

Good effort but just one concern about the above photos - the ceramic bulb appears to be either touching or extremely close to the wire cage. I would always keep the bulb at least 5cm from any part of the cage, as this can also become dangerously hot.


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## loxocemus

this simply isn't true, the majority of large boa breeders in the states use mats and trays and their fine (not counting the very fat densely bodied royals, how many are in racks via mats around the world, how many hundred thousand?), iv kept a very good size short tail boa (@5ft and built like a brick latrine) and a younger corn island on mats, plus 6-7ft indigos (and their heavy) whose main heat source was mats, never a slight blemish never mind a burn. iv used mats for virtually everything regardless of how fat their ass was, iv never got a "thermal block burn" because iv never set a mat up wrong.

if you set mats up wrong u can get burns, but ditto with virtually every other heat element in the hobby.

if you burn a boa with a mat its either

A keeper set it up wrong
B equipment failure

A and B apply to any heat element in the hobby.

the current hobby wants everything to have overhead heat because u know the suns above ur noggin and therefore heatmats are the new heat rocks (which is bullshit to the 10th degree), its an overly simplistic and in some ways flawed idea tacked onto a live animal hobby with species from everywhere on the globe and from every micro-habitat ("habitat" means %&£*all if u don't know which part of that habitat they occupy).

if u set a piece of equipment up wrong or buy the cheapest chinese shit on the market, its on you, the keeper, when ur animal gets burned.

to the OP if it hasn't already been said there's too much empty space in the cage height, young boas like to sit on branches so id include some for climbing and resting 

rgds
ed


ian14 said:


> Then a mat is completely wrong. Heavy bodied snakes are at sig ificant risk of burns as they will lay on the mat to get warm, but their body mass means that they burn.
> Mats so do not warm the air. They are contact heaters.
> You should be looking to use a ceramic heater on a dimming stat. This will warm the air, and provide the correct environment.
> It is quite difficult for us in the UK to advise how to keep in a country like Greece with a hotter and drier climate but the care needs of the snake are the same.
> Mat, no.
> Ceramic on a pulse or dimming stat, yes.


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## ian14

loxocemus said:


> this simply isn't true, the majority of large boa breeders in the states use mats and trays and their fine (not counting the very fat densely bodied royals, how many are in racks via mats around the world, how many hundred thousand?), iv kept a very good size short tail boa (@5ft and built like a brick latrine) and a younger corn island on mats, plus 6-7ft indigos (and their heavy) whose main heat source was mats, never a slight blemish never mind a burn. iv used mats for virtually everything regardless of how fat their ass was, iv never got a "thermal block burn" because iv never set a mat up wrong.
> 
> if you set mats up wrong u can get burns, but ditto with virtually every other heat element in the hobby.
> 
> if you burn a boa with a mat its either
> 
> A keeper set it up wrong
> B equipment failure
> 
> A and B apply to any heat element in the hobby.
> 
> the current hobby wants everything to have overhead heat because u know the suns above ur noggin and therefore heatmats are the new heat rocks (which is bullshit to the 10th degree), its an overly simplistic and in some ways flawed idea tacked onto a live animal hobby with species from everywhere on the globe and from every micro-habitat ("habitat" means %&£*all if u don't know which part of that habitat they occupy).
> 
> if u set a piece of equipment up wrong or buy the cheapest chinese shit on the market, its on you, the keeper, when ur animal gets burned.
> 
> to the OP if it hasn't already been said there's too much empty space in the cage height, young boas like to sit on branches so id include some for climbing and resting
> 
> rgds
> ed


Sorry, Ed, but this is one thing you and I disagree with!
Mats do not warm the air. That is a fact.
Mats have their place, of course. But for the average keeper, with a single viv or two, they are frankly just a cheap option that doesn't work for many species.
When I had some royals I thought, "hey, everyone seems to keep them in tubs on mats". None of them fed.
I moved them out of those set ups and into vivs with overhead heaters, and guess what? They all fed.
The same with sand boas.
In a heated room, with a decent ambient air temperature, then yes, Mats are a cheap and economic heating method to provide a warm spot.
But otherwise, the snake has two choices. Cold or hot.


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## loxocemus

it is ian, sorry mate 

rgds
ed
ps if u go back far enough in my rfuk history you'll find the posts where i detail using a 18x12 ultratherm (under a layer of self adhesive vinyl) on the roof a cage, this was the basking spot for a large female P.baroni on a branch below (maybe 6-8"), it achieved the 82of where i needed it to, the pads surface im sure was much higher, but it was in no way a hazard. so yes iv used a mat as a basking spot. if i was to do it again id use aluminium sheet and one of those high temp model mats.

rgds
ed




ian14 said:


> Sorry, Ed, but this is one thing you and I disagree with!
> Mats do not warm the air. That is a fact.
> Mats have their place, of course. But for the average keeper, with a single viv or two, they are frankly just a cheap option that doesn't work for many species.
> When I had some royals I thought, "hey, everyone seems to keep them in tubs on mats". None of them fed.
> I moved them out of those set ups and into vivs with overhead heaters, and guess what? They all fed.
> The same with sand boas.
> In a heated room, with a decent ambient air temperature, then yes, Mats are a cheap and economic heating method to provide a warm spot.
> But otherwise, the snake has two choices. Cold or hot.


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## Malc

jeremy68 said:


> Good effort but just one concern about the above photos - the ceramic bulb appears to be either touching or extremely close to the wire cage. I would always keep the bulb at least 5cm from any part of the cage, as this can also become dangerously hot.


Looking at the image the OP has used a reflector around the CHE to focus the warmth and its the reflector that is touching or close to the metal guard. This is perfectly acceptable as the heater will be thermostatically controlled and not running at an unregulated surface temperature.

I would also agree with ed, the viv needs more branches - they love to climb










Here's my boa when he was a youngster doing an impression of an ETB


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## jacksp

jeremy68 said:


> Good effort but just one concern about the above photos - the ceramic bulb appears to be either touching or extremely close to the wire cage. I would always keep the bulb at least 5cm from any part of the cage, as this can also become dangerously hot.


I have change it with a another wire screen but and with this wire screen i always check if you can touch it and then i put the animal inside








Here is when i change it with two bulb and two pulse and i change it again because i don t like the temprature at night drop at 23c but i haven t photo of this now that im on vacation, but i move the left bulb more left and i take out the left wood because now in winter don't leave the ceramic to do job when i am not at home. Now i have 33c basking spot, ambient at 32-28c and my cold is at 26c the only problem is the humidity because you must spray everyday but isn't a big deal..Now i see your photo malc pretty boa on "duty" i must find and disinfect some branches


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## Malc

Have a read of the sticky posts above on Boa's and heating - You don't need a temperature drop at night. What levels of humidity are you getting - don't get too hung up on values.


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## jacksp

Malc said:


> Have a read of the sticky posts above on Boa's and heating - You don't need a temperature drop at night. What levels of humidity are you getting - don't get too hung up on values.


I say that one night i see my temperature at cold side drop below 25c (23.8 i think) is winter and i have some equipment so i set it and i make wire screen and ready.. My enclosure don't drop below 26c now. Humidity i have steady 50 to 60 with a morning spraying with the second CHE(before this i almost spraying 2 / week) but i keep it (second CHE) only for a couple of months.. I don't see only the numbers sure, most i see the animal sheddings (6 - 7 sheddings i have i have not even a hole) and how he use the spots( i set the temperature a little bit up from 32 to 33 because i see boa try to find more hot place i see him at night cam )


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## jacksp

And after some months i think a bioactive set up start with pvc membrane








Polyurethane foam and aquarium silicone and i stick coco fiber








A mix coco fiber, coco husk and sand springtails and woodlice and phyllodendron plant and i wait for 1 2 months to get in my boa in and a mopani wood


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## ian14

Using chipboard for the viv and setting it up as "bioactive" may not end up well. The wood will start to rot fairly fairly quickly.


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## jacksp

ian14 said:


> Using chipboard for the viv and setting it up as "bioactive" may not end up well. The wood will start to rot fairly fairly quickly.


It have varnish for this isn't a naked wood


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## Zincubus

jacksp said:


> It have varnish for this isn't a naked wood


I wouldn’t use chipboard even if it’s sealed ..

Water always seems to find a way ... even if it takes a little while 

Your shout though 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Malc

Observations:


The viv is quite square so having two CHE's is puzzling. I know you mentioned the drop over the winter months, but trying to maintain the cool end as well as the hot side using two CHEs is not needed. So long as the hot side is maintained at around 32-35c it will form a natural thermal gradient, getting cooler the further away form the heat. Whilst this may mean the cool side may drop down to what most care sheets will state as being ideal, it doesn't really matter as the snake will find the desired location IT feels is ideal for that moment. If its too cool it will move nearer the heater, if its too warm, it moves away. You only need one thermostatically controlled CHE of appropriate wattage to provide 32-35c without being driven fully placed at one end of the enclosure.
The particle board, as others have said, is not really suited for a bio active enclosure. Granted you have taken steps to make it moisture proof, but the moisture needed to maintain the plants will ingress the wood and lead to degradation of the panels.
The edges of the wire mesh used on the air vents need covering. The snake will rub against them and damage to the skin will occur. You would be better off fitting plastic louvre vents which will have smoother edges
Like wise the home made guards for the CHE's and UV lamp (I'm guessing its a UV lamp?) using galvanised wire leaves sharp corners and sharp edges which will cause wounds that will leave the snake scarred (I'm talking from personal experience). Buy some proper wire mesh guards designed for protecting CHE's
Remove the croc skull - there have been post in the past where snakes have got stuck in the eye sockets of similar ornaments. If you are going "bio" there is no need for such things - keep it natural, with rocks, bark etc
Add some natural branches as young boa's love to climb
Now it's your call if you listen to the suggestions from other forum members or not. But just be mindful that if you ignore such comments and then post up that your boa is stuck in the skull, or is missing some scales as its rubbed against the sharp edges of the heater guard or vents then the likely response from the membership will be "told you so!!"


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## jacksp

Malc said:


> Observations:
> 
> 
> The viv is quite square so having two CHE's is puzzling. I know you mentioned the drop over the winter months, but trying to maintain the cool end as well as the hot side using two CHEs is not needed. So long as the hot side is maintained at around 32-35c it will form a natural thermal gradient, getting cooler the further away form the heat. Whilst this may mean the cool side may drop down to what most care sheets will state as being ideal, it doesn't really matter as the snake will find the desired location IT feels is ideal for that moment. If its too cool it will move nearer the heater, if its too warm, it moves away. You only need one thermostatically controlled CHE of appropriate wattage to provide 32-35c without being driven fully placed at one end of the enclosure.
> The particle board, as others have said, is not really suited for a bio active enclosure. Granted you have taken steps to make it moisture proof, but the moisture needed to maintain the plants will ingress the wood and lead to degradation of the panels.
> The edges of the wire mesh used on the air vents need covering. The snake will rub against them and damage to the skin will occur. You would be better off fitting plastic louvre vents which will have smoother edges
> Like wise the home made guards for the CHE's and UV lamp (I'm guessing its a UV lamp?) using galvanised wire leaves sharp corners and sharp edges which will cause wounds that will leave the snake scarred (I'm talking from personal experience). Buy some proper wire mesh guards designed for protecting CHE's
> Remove the croc skull - there have been post in the past where snakes have got stuck in the eye sockets of similar ornaments. If you are going "bio" there is no need for such things - keep it natural, with rocks, bark etc
> Add some natural branches as young boa's love to climb
> Now it's your call if you listen to the suggestions from other forum members or not. But just be mindful that if you ignore such comments and then post up that your boa is stuck in the skull, or is missing some scales as its rubbed against the sharp edges of the heater guard or vents then the likely response from the membership will be "told you so!!"


I see a lot of people at youtube who make bioactive set ups from wood panel so i check it, if its ok for 1 2 years im ok then sure i change it with a pvc or home made from glass. i have 2 ceramic and 2 thermostats to keep the temperature but i do it because i have more equipment,
I have change the screen lid of the vents (at the last photo) with plexiglass. Thanks for the heater guards and uvb but when i make it i do it smooth isn't sharp im not reckless and ok for the skull i don't know it, but i keep sure the animal 1 2 monts out to be sure that the clean up crew thrive and yes i must find branches i have 1 2 but it was small


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## ian14

jacksp said:


> I see a lot of people at youtube who make bioactive set ups from wood panel so i check it, if its ok for 1 2 years im ok then sure i change it with a pvc or home made from glass. i have 2 ceramic and 2 thermostats to keep the temperature but i do it because i have more equipment,
> I have change the screen lid of the vents (at the last photo) with plexiglass. Thanks for the heater guards and uvb but when i make it i do it smooth isn't sharp im not reckless and ok for the skull i don't know it, but i keep sure the animal 1 2 monts out to be sure that the clean up crew thrive and yes i must find branches i have 1 2 but it was small


Theres a lot of absolute rubbish on YouTube.
I wouldn't follow the advice from around 99% of channels.


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## jacksp

ian14 said:


> Theres a lot of absolute rubbish on YouTube.
> I wouldn't follow the advice from around 99% of channels.


Me too i follow 2 3 persons for this reason and ok isn't advices for the animal, for this i search here or i ask a vet that i find recently, is information about the caging so im not afraid if i destroy it and it wasn't cage for dartfrogs that they need 80% humidity or more. My snake is a yearling i want to see his "final" size to know what i can make or buy but in greece the problem if u find pvc enclosure is from europe and america and you pay more for courier than the cage i keep try to find something but i don't know, or u must make from glass because all enclosures that i find is less than 5ft, recently i speak with a friend that make boats and says that if i have a frame he can dress is with fiberglass that is a hard and non toxic material but i keep search my choices and i have the time.. I don't think that i wake up tomorrow and i find irritadet sawdust everywhere.


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## ian14

jacksp said:


> Me too i follow 2 3 persons for this reason and ok isn't advices for the animal, for this i search here or i ask a vet that i find recently, is information about the caging so im not afraid if i destroy it and it wasn't cage for dartfrogs that they need 80% humidity or more. My snake is a yearling i want to see his "final" size to know what i can make or buy but in greece the problem if u find pvc enclosure is from europe and america and you pay more for courier than the cage i keep try to find something but i don't know, or u must make from glass because all enclosures that i find is less than 5ft, recently i speak with a friend that make boats and says that if i have a frame he can dress is with fiberglass that is a hard and non toxic material but i keep search my choices and i have the time.. I don't think that i wake up tomorrow and i find irritadet sawdust everywhere.


No, you won't. But over time, that wood will start to rot down, especially with a moist substrate. Chipboard is just pieces of scrap wood compressed together to make a board, so is more susceptible to warping and rotting, simply because water can get in between the bits of wood that make it.
I dont know how long your viv will last, the best I can suggest is to start preparing for a more suitable, permanent home now, even if that just means putting some money aside each month so you have the funds to buy or build one when it's needed.


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## jacksp

ian14 said:


> No, you won't. But over time, that wood will start to rot down, especially with a moist substrate. Chipboard is just pieces of scrap wood compressed together to make a board, so is more susceptible to warping and rotting, simply because water can get in between the bits of wood that make it.
> I dont know how long your viv will last, the best I can suggest is to start preparing for a more suitable, permanent home now, even if that just means putting some money aside each month so you have the funds to buy or build one when it's needed.


I always keep money for this changes, i want only to find a sure final size and a long lasting material. Cgipboard is a good material for experimentation i can't buy a pvc and do the same.. But sure i wan't to buy a ready enclosure only if it wants screwing.. Im not omniscient with specialized materials even with silicon at glass.. The only that im sure is that i don't have holes in the bottom for the time because i did't cut nothing








I don't know if u see the corners are folded and i have an extra strip to all its acne for the water that it falls from the sides, its a demi mesure that gives more time to think😛


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