# Gorilla Glue Experiment



## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Sooo,

I've used gorilla glue on several tropical builds now, and despite the fuss, mess, touching up andpeeling it off my fingers for WEEKS afterwards, I've always been impressed. However a couple of days ago I decided to make a start on my next viv interior, a desert habitat.

Now, I usually have a firm idea in my head (and numerous drawings, scribbles, written notes, etc!) of what I'm making. I.e. the background type, substrate, colours, size, shape, etc. This time I found myself without a clue, so just began building. I whacked a load of polystyrene bits in the viv, and glued them in. Shortly afterwqard I decided I didn't want to just cut my vents out of the background, maybe I could find a way to incorporate them. This got me thinking about Rango, and the pipe in the desert. Several other films etc feature pipes seemingly dumped in the middle of a canyon face or similar, so suddenly I had my inspiration.

Carved out, put pipes in etc, then a final crisis, what was I going to cover it with? I've used grout plenty of times and had some good effects, just didn't fancy painting umpteen layers on just to find I wasn't exactly ecstatic with the result. Therefore, when I spied my spare bottle of Gorilla Glue, a new plan occurred. A few minutes of mixing sand and desert substrate later, and several hours of laborious gluing, here's the result.

What do you guys think? Comments and criticisms welcome, 

Dave


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I think that looks pretty damn awesome!
I might do somethign like that for my beardies!


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## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

Now that dose look really good, and something different :2thumb:


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> I think that looks pretty damn awesome!
> I might do somethign like that for my beardies!


Feels pretty hard right now, but I'm not sure how well it would stand up to their claws? The pics don't do it justice to be honest, I've always used grout in the past and you can get a really good look with it if you try hard, but it always seems to lack something in my eyes, this really does look like rock. There are a few things i'd possibly do in a slightly different way, but they're really only minor cosmetic changes such as putting slight cracks in the parts where the rock changes direction. With this method you get a really impressive array of textures and colours, heres a couple of close ups to illustrate 























rexob said:


> Now that dose look really good, and something different :2thumb:


Thanks mate, I'm pleased it turned out so well, and maybe it'll inspire people to try different approaches 

Oh yeah, forgot to mention its for a cali king snake. 

Dave


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

It looks really good, much better than the standard grout texture.

Best,
Paul


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## werewolf (Dec 26, 2009)

Looks much more natural, well done! :no1:


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## Goobs (Nov 20, 2010)

Awesome job, that looks really good! :no1:


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## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

that does look really different :2thumb: 

what did you mix the desert sand with and did you put it on the same way as you would using coco fiber for a crestie( press the sand into the gorrilla glue with it a bit damp ? )


what did you put on the bottom of the viv is that glued too or the same sand mix loose ?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

wezza309 said:


> that does look really different :2thumb:
> 
> what did you mix the desert sand with and did you put it on the same way as you would using coco fiber for a crestie( press the sand into the gorrilla glue with it a bit damp ? )
> 
> ...


The substrate mix is this

Lucky Reptile Desert Bedding Outback Red 7L - Surrey Pet Supplies

mixed roughly half and half with this

Buy Children's Play Sand - 15kg Bag at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Sand.

To glue it I sprayed the polystyrene with a little water and then spread the gorrilla glue over it and waited until it foamed a little. Once it was foaming up I spread a THIN layer of the substrate mix over it ( a thick layer made it difficult to keep track of where it was expanding and led to a couple of odd shaped protusions!) and just kept presssing it in 

On the floor is the same mix left loose.

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the compliments :notworthy:

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Couple of pics of the new occupant exploring




























She has explored the whole space, draping herslf over the "water pipes", on the shelf, climbed all over every inch of stonework and buried herself under the log, seems very happy 

Dave


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## c_1993 (Jun 10, 2011)

Looks really good Dave!

I'm gutted I don't have another desert species that I can try this method with, hmm this is a good excuse to get a new desert dwelling rep :whistling2:


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks amazing mate. I have some of that desert bedding that I was thinking of using with my build, never did in the end. I agree though, I highly doubt it is going to withstand claws of a beardy or similar. Shame otherwise I'd be right on it!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Looks great!


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

c_1993 said:


> Looks really good Dave!
> 
> I'm gutted I don't have another desert species that I can try this method with, hmm this is a good excuse to get a new desert dwelling rep :whistling2:


Well gorilla glue works with anything, soil, pebbles, wood, straw, dried leaves etc. So you can use it with any rep. There again, far be it from me to get between a fella and his excuse for a new rep 



tomcannon said:


> Looks amazing mate. I have some of that desert bedding that I was thinking of using with my build, never did in the end. I agree though, I highly doubt it is going to withstand claws of a beardy or similar. Shame otherwise I'd be right on it!


Thanks mate, appreciate it seeing as yours is so amazing  It feels pretty solid, I'm going to use the same method for my african eyed lizards viv, but may do it over a layer of grout to stiffen it up. 



fatlad69 said:


> Looks great!


Thanks mate


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## c_1993 (Jun 10, 2011)

my_shed said:


> Well gorilla glue works with anything, soil, pebbles, wood, straw, dried leaves etc. So you can use it with any rep. There again, far be it from me to get between a fella and his excuse for a new rep


I'm a girl :Na_Na_Na_Na:, but any excuse for a new rep :lol2:
But yeah I may have too try out that gorilla glue method, looks really good!


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

c_1993 said:


> I'm a girl :Na_Na_Na_Na:, but any excuse for a new rep :lol2:
> But yeah I may have too try out that gorilla glue method, looks really good!


Ooops my apologies  lol

Dave


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## rexob (Sep 1, 2012)

my_shed said:


> The substrate mix is this
> 
> Lucky Reptile Desert Bedding Outback Red 7L - Surrey Pet Supplies
> 
> ...


 
thats something else learned :2thumb:


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## HDreptiles (Apr 30, 2011)

What type of Gorilla glue did you use? Just the regular wood working stuff?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

HDreptiles said:


> What type of Gorilla glue did you use? Just the regular wood working stuff?


This one 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gorilla-Glu...ZIYW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352758974&sr=8-8

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

So to continue my experiment, I began a second build a few days ago, a slightly more complex one to test how well the GG will work in this case.

Carved up










Individual sections gorilla glued

Back










Right hand side










Left hand side










All three











These were then put in the viv to check fit etc










All fine, so they were glued together and the joints were glue with aquarium sealant. Sand was pushed into the joints to make them less noticeable. Then the roof was put on to check the tube fits and so on.










In that picture you can also see the frame on the bottom I put in to raise the build slightly so i had the top fitting flush with the roof. 

Not much to do now, just put the heat mat back in, seal around the sides and top and put some substrate in. I'm reasonably happy with it, it's definitely easier and quicker than grout, and gives a better finish in my opinion, but will probably not be as hard wearing. Although it feels pretty hard, i'm guessing the surface layer could be dislodged by repeated rubbing and anything with decent claws could possibly get through it, although maybe not. The color of this one is pretty uniform, I was planning to wait a while and get some white sand and maybe yellow sand to mix with this grey, but got impatient, it actually looks a little more multi shaded in real life, but I kind of wish i'd waited.

Here's some close-ups of the caves and pillars (before sealing the joints)



















As always, comments and thoughts welcome

Dave


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks epic mate, love that sculpting work and love the gorilla glue concept, preferred it with the desert bedding you did first time around mind. Do you think there would be anyway of using the GG and desert bedding and it being strong enough to withstand BD nails? Possibly on to of grout? Did you mention that possibility earlier in the thread, I'm sure I heard it so must be here. Also did you use the desert bedding as it comes or mix with water and allow to dry first?

I think I might have to get my hands on a cheap 4ft viv. : victory:


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

tomcannon said:


> Looks epic mate, love that sculpting work and love the gorilla glue concept, preferred it with the desert bedding you did first time around mind. Do you think there would be anyway of using the GG and desert bedding and it being strong enough to withstand BD nails? Possibly on to of grout? Did you mention that possibility earlier in the thread, I'm sure I heard it so must be here. Also did you use the desert bedding as it comes or mix with water and allow to dry first?
> 
> I think I might have to get my hands on a cheap 4ft viv. : victory:


Thanks mate  I'm just experimenting with different substrates right now, going to give a yellow white and grey sand mix a go soon, maybe come up with a similar colour scheme to what you acheived. As for it being strong enough for a beardies claws, to be honest mate I think it might be anyways. With the desert bedding and sand mix, the majority of the background is actually the desert bedding as a lot of it is small particles and therefore you get a very strong layer of small particles that doesn't brush off in the way the sand does. It feels very hard and you can't scrape any off with fingernails, and gorilla glue dries rock hard! If it's well pushed in when it is expanding it becomes very solid, so could be worth a try 

Have a go, it's a bit more demanding than grout in the fact that you need to spend an hour on each side just pushing it back in again and again and AGAIN! And turn the background onto each side that needs gluing. But on the other hand.........one coat rather than 7 :2thumb:

Dave


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## Enigma Herp (Oct 30, 2012)

what quanity of glue did u use on the first background


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Enigma Herp said:


> what quanity of glue did u use on the first background


About 250 mls. At my local (ish) shop that sets me back about £7.50, but for any more I make i'll be getting it from amazon at £20 for a litre 

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Finished 

In place










As it looks (waiting for some grey sand to mix with the playsand)










The future occupant testing it out










Dave


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

That really is wicked. I think I'll have to give it a go! Did you mix up the desert bedding with water before mixing it with the sand or did you just put it straight from the bag in to the sand? I have some of that bedding around so I think I'll try it out.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

tomcannon said:


> That really is wicked. I think I'll have to give it a go! Did you mix up the desert bedding with water before mixing it with the sand or did you just put it straight from the bag in to the sand? I have some of that bedding around so I think I'll try it out.


It was just mixed with the play sand, which was slightly damp, then applied. However, i sprayed the polystyrene before applying the gorilla glue, however I think if i did it again I would just dampen the sand and bedding mix a bit and not spray the polystyrene or the glue. 

Dave


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

my_shed said:


> It was just mixed with the play sand, which was slightly damp, then applied. However, i sprayed the polystyrene before applying the gorilla glue, however I think if i did it again I would just dampen the sand and bedding mix a bit and not spray the polystyrene or the glue.
> 
> Dave


Wicked cheers. I think a trial experiment is in order. I haven't the space for more vivs unfortunately so it would have to be sold on but would be fun regardless!


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

If anyone is interested in a background like these, I will be offering a service to make them to order. 

All quotes would be based on the individual requirements of the customer, as there are so many variables, size, shape, substrate choice, number of colours present, rock pattern, ledges, shelves, overhangs, etc etc. 

Any size considered, although bear in mind postage costs may be high on larger designs.

Substrate choices I've considered so far include; play sand and desert bedding as featured, calci sand (impaction risk should be negligible due to it being glued:2thumb eco earth, compost.

Additional features such as branches, driftwood, cork bark, larger stones, planter etc can also be added.

I'm not looking to make my fortune from these, more a way to pass the odd evening so prices would be as reasonable as possible. Anyone wishing to enquire please feel free to pm me.

Dave


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## krome187 (Apr 29, 2011)

awesome builds, but does anyone know 
if gorilla glue is inert?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

100% inert, its been used for PDFs and other amphibs for a long time

Dave


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## krome187 (Apr 29, 2011)

nice sounds like some handy stuff to have around the house, PDFs ?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Poison dart frogs :2thumb:


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## krome187 (Apr 29, 2011)

ah I see


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## smiling paul (Sep 12, 2011)

brilliant setups you have here :no1:

what colour does the GG dry?
and can you see it between the sand mix you have on the walls?

Paul


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

smiling paul said:


> brilliant setups you have here :no1:
> 
> what colour does the GG dry?
> and can you see it between the sand mix you have on the walls?
> ...


Thanks mate  GG dries a yellowish colour but as you can see from the close ups you don't get any showing through. The smaller the substrate grains the better the coverage, although you can end up with a flat texture if you just use a single dusty sunstrate.

Dave


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

my_shed said:


> 100% inert, its been used for PDFs and other amphibs for a long time
> 
> Dave


Spot on Dave!


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## smiling paul (Sep 12, 2011)

my_shed said:


> Thanks mate  GG dries a yellowish colour but as you can see from the close ups you don't get any showing through. The smaller the substrate grains the better the coverage, although you can end up with a flat texture if you just use a single dusty sunstrate.
> 
> Dave



when i was looking a the pics i didnt know if i was looking through the sand at the GG or at the layer of sand if you know what i mean. Thanks for letting me know know, though i see some of my own experiments in the near horizon


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

smiling paul said:


> when i was looking a the pics i didnt know if i was looking through the sand at the GG or at the layer of sand if you know what i mean. Thanks for letting me know know, though i see some of my own experiments in the near horizon


I think that that yellower layer is the sand mate, as I used a mix of colours, some is play sand and some is grey rep sand. The yellower play sand seems to sit below the surface slightly as it's finer than the rep sand.

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Spot on Dave!


Hopefully in reference to the builds :lol2: thanks!

Dave


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## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

what does any one use to apply the gorilla glue ????
I have tried squirting some glue then i used a tooth brush to get it in to the nooks and crannies on my test piece i tried it was not a good finish 

I think the glue was too cold and the substrate was not wet enough


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

wezza309 said:


> what does any one use to apply the gorilla glue ????
> I have tried squirting some glue then i used a tooth brush to get it in to the nooks and crannies on my test piece i tried it was not a good finish
> 
> I think the glue was too cold and the substrate was not wet enough


Paint brush mate - works a rudy treat :2thumb:


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## Schneeden (Oct 25, 2012)

im defo gonna try summit like this on mine, can you think of anything else that might work better then polystyrene for bearded dragons


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## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

from what i have read it seems to be try and find the perfect wettness and glue coverage but its the best cause it expands and is better than silicon cause of that so i will be doing this way on my vivs


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

wezza309 said:


> what does any one use to apply the gorilla glue ????
> I have tried squirting some glue then i used a tooth brush to get it in to the nooks and crannies on my test piece i tried it was not a good finish
> 
> I think the glue was too cold and the substrate was not wet enough


I buy cheap latex gloves and spread it with my hands



Schneeden said:


> im defo gonna try summit like this on mine, can you think of anything else that might work better then polystyrene for bearded dragons


Kingspan



wezza309 said:


> from what i have read it seems to be try and find the perfect wettness and glue coverage but its the best cause it expands and is better than silicon cause of that so i will be doing this way on my vivs


Not sure about the perfect wetness, I just slap it on and hope for the best  Moisture levels determine the amount of expansion, however I think the most important thing is to ensure a decent layer of glue. Maybe I've just been lucky with all of mine, but I've yet to run into problems in terms of the amount of water used, with some of the sand ones I've been trying to avoid too much expansion so have used barely damp substrate and it's stuck well, in others I've used soaking wet compost and its worked equally well.

Dave


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## Islandgeckos (Oct 13, 2011)

Would gorilla glue be ok in humid tropical set, to stick earth to background?


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

In a word yes.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Islandgeckos said:


> Would gorilla glue be ok in humid tropical set, to stick earth to background?


Nothing better than Gorilla glue for humid environments, just make sure to put loads of pressure on the substrate as the glue expands, and keep pushing it in for about an hour or so. 

Dave


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## Needrl (Mar 21, 2013)

So has this been tried in a bearded dragon viv, just wundering if it will stand up to there claws. Why I ask I am in the process of building a viv but the grout process is taking a long time and have done 4 coats and is still not produching a rock hard cover. So was think of putting a covering of gg and substrate on

Please come back with info. :bash: this is how I feel at the moment.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Needrl said:


> So has this been tried in a bearded dragon viv, just wundering if it will stand up to there claws. Why I ask I am in the process of building a viv but the grout process is taking a long time and have done 4 coats and is still not produching a rock hard cover. So was think of putting a covering of gg and substrate on
> 
> Please come back with info. :bash: this is how I feel at the moment.


Not sure how the GG would stand up but you can get the same effect using epoxy resin then push the substrate onto it.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Needrl said:


> So has this been tried in a bearded dragon viv, just wundering if it will stand up to there claws. Why I ask I am in the process of building a viv but the grout process is taking a long time and have done 4 coats and is still not produching a rock hard cover. So was think of putting a covering of gg and substrate on
> 
> Please come back with info. :bash: this is how I feel at the moment.


It'll help this for sure as long as its well pressed so it doesn't rise off the surface of the grout. I'm using it in my new arid viv build and its rock solid but it is also on top of rock solid grout so it makes sense. I can't say for sure whether it would be strong enough alone or on weak grout. To be honest I'm not sure it would after a while.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

I would say there are several factors, firstly the thickness of the glue, secondly how hard you push it down as its expanding, thirdly the choice of substrate, design of the background, etc. 

1)A thin layer of glue isn't as strong, 
2)pushing it down harder makes it more dense and therefore stronger, 
3)a substrate that has differing sizes, from dust to larger grains, will embed itself deeply into the glue and make a really strong dense layer that should be nearly impervious to the claws of a bearded dragon, using just larger substrate makes it much easier to be able to be pulled off as it doesn't have the support of the smaller grains around it
4)sharp corners are much more difficult to glue effectively, smooth curves are not only more easily glued but are less liable to become a section that is persistently rubbed and clawed than a sharp corner.

For reference I have a club tailed iguana in the second viv on this build thread, he's extremely active, and whilst smaller and lighter than a beardie, he has an extremely heavily scaled and weighty tail (It is rock hard and can easily draw blood!) but his background looks exactly the same as the day I finished it. And that is the background with the larger particles that I don't expect to last as long.

Hope this helps

Dave


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## bob brown (Mar 15, 2010)

These look great Dave, nice to see some thign a bit different, i realy like the finish it looks very realistic, great job!


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