# FWC pic



## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

My FWC is now 18 months old (pic through glass). 5 month old pics are in my album for comparison.

She eats two or three mice weekly with gusto. Attacking anything in sight whilst in "feed mode". Unlike her juve stage where she was fairly timid.

FWC's really seem to slow down feeding during winter for a few months. She managed to get to the floor the other day, and to stop her getting away I grabbed her tail.. erm.. I just managed to dodge the accurate strike before getting my hook as usual.

One reason not to put your hook on top of your viv where you can't see it!! (lol - ED)


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

*fwc*

thats a nice fwc mate well done on ur purchase


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## beardys (Sep 28, 2009)

have you got access to anti venum


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

beardys said:


> have you got access to anti venum


FWC stands for False Water Cobra mate, even if you did need anti-venom for it I have not heard of a private keeper maintaining a stock, though it is possible there could be, bit pointless and costly when the NHS will give it you for free though.


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## xvickyx (Jul 21, 2009)

very nice FWC


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Nice animal but its not a DWA species is it.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Anti venom? I think anti hysthemine would be the usual thing wouldn't it?


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Hold on with that until someone clarifies.

Just though that antihysthemine opens cell walls, so in theory it may just help the venom spread.

Though i better put this before someone gets bit and heads for the Clarityn : victory:


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## FWC354 (Aug 3, 2010)

the best thing to do is ride it out its hard to extract sufficient amount of venom from rear fanged species so its even more difficult to produce anti-venom and its not worth producing anti-venom for a species that isnt a DWA because that not classed as a deadly animal but the effectss arent very nice. 

and anti-venom can be more dangerous than the actual venom due to the anti-bodies from the animal e.g a horse are different and are not allways compatible with ours.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

FWC354 said:


> and anti-venom can be more dangerous than the actual venom due to the anti-bodies from the animal e.g a horse are different and are not allways compatible with ours.


I disagree - you may or may not get a reaction but if you are being given an anti venom/venin chances are the venom is pretty likely to kill you. The reaction isn't even if you do get one except in extreme cases of anaphylaxis!


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## roddy mac (Dec 10, 2009)

ahhh looks nice buddy


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*one post to all *

thanks all for the kind FWC comments. yep I love my Coby (sorry to all true cobra owners for the pathetic name i gave her :lol2
Here is a quote from DavidR (from Reptile Forum) whom I think may be selling a clutch of FWCs right now...(?..)

"FWCs are perfectly capable of delivering a reasonably serious envenomation without prolonged chewing (i.e. in seconds rather than minutes), even as hatchlings. Although the delivery system seems archaic on paper, it is far more effective than some would have you believe. It is likely that reaction will vary from person to person, but if you are unfortunate enough to receive a decent envenomation you will definitely know about it. Necrosis is unlikely, but localised swelling, bruising etc and inflammation of lymph nodes make for an incredibly unpleasant experience. These are all direct venom effects rather than allergic reaction, which is very unlikely with rear-fangs. Allergy to wasp/bee sting is no indicator of increased sensitivity to snake venom, it simply demonstrates that you have an immune system and are therefore capable of developing an allergy.

Saying that, FWCs tame down very easily but always retain the mad feeding response. If you wish to keep them then you must be aware that they are capable of ruining your week if you are very unfortunate (only a small number of reported bites result in anything more than a lot of blood).

David." 

Its safe to say I very nearly joined the statistic in reaching to stop mine getting away! Remembering she is tame when being handled.

"mad feeding response" - hell yeah!! :lol2: 

I reckon their core body operating temp is higher than boas/pythons (I own all three species). From experience an FWC can strike even in mild conditions as effectively. Near a river system I believe my FWC could readily survive an English winter. Aside from pike!!


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## FWC354 (Aug 3, 2010)

your right that if your being given anti-venom obviously the venom itself is potent enough to do serious damage or kill but in the case of a false water cobra i.e requiring anti-venom incase of envenomation would be unneccesary as the venom is not potent enough (even though research has shown the venom has similar structure to that of a timber rattlesnake but is not delivered in the same large quantity as would be by a rattlesnake, partly because of the size of the rear-fangs meaning the snake had to chew more to deliver more.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Forget all the scientific stuff the truth is a mild bite may have no effect to slight tingling sensation in the bite area. A bad bite can cause pain fairly severe swelling possible nausia and even hospitalisation where the symptoms will be treated. I have had a bad bite and had long lasting effects from a big snake that really hung on. I have also personnally known someone who ended up in hospital with a bite. do not underestimate what a bite may do, as im sure a couple of other members on here will confirm.


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

FWC354 said:


> your right that if your being given anti-venom obviously the venom itself is potent enough to do serious damage or kill but in the case of a false water cobra i.e requiring anti-venom incase of envenomation would be unneccesary as the venom is not potent enough (even though research has shown the venom has similar structure to that of a timber rattlesnake but is not delivered in the same large quantity as would be by a rattlesnake, partly because of the size of the rear-fangs meaning the snake had to chew more to deliver more.


The question about whether antivenom should be prescribed in snake bite is purely academic as there is no antivenom for FWCs, nor is one necessary. It has very little to do with potency and everything to do with quantity. The venom of FWC has been shown (admittedly by LD50 which does not relate information about toxicity to humans) to be of higher toxicity than many species for which antivenom is necessary.
I'm unsure where your statement about the venom being similar in structure to that of a timber rattlesnake is from, and assume you mean composition rather than structure? Either way it has been shown to be similar in toxicity (different to composition), again by LD50.



> do not underestimate what a bite may do, as im sure a couple of other members on here will confirm.


I agree.

To the original post, that is a very nice FWC! 

David.


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*bites*



leecb0 said:


> ... I have had a bad bite and had long lasting effects from a big snake that really hung on. I have also personnally known someone who ended up in hospital with a bite. do not underestimate what a bite may do, as im sure a couple of other members on here will confirm.


thanks leecb0 and David.

Also this is aside from mechanical damage from their powerful bite and sharp fangs. Not trying to scaremonger, we're not talking Gaboon Viper "ouch factor" but certainly not something to pass off lightly. 

My FWC's recent double strike (she was on the floor and didn't have my hook handy) really confirmed that picking up without a hook is a bad idea!! :bash:

On a positive note my FWC is as tame as mice when handling. I can stroke her head, under her mouth, lift her head up.... 

...I just draw the line at playfully slapping her chops!!:lol2:


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

maffy said:


> thanks leecb0 and David.
> 
> Also this is aside from mechanical damage from their powerful bite and sharp fangs. Not trying to scaremonger, we're not talking Gaboon Viper "ouch factor" but certainly not something to pass off lightly.
> 
> ...


Still its not a DWA species so why post in here? :?


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*Simple Answer*



Jb1432 said:


> Still its not a DWA species so why post in here? :?


1. The opening commentary to the DWA section reads:

*DWA Species* (n Viewing) 
Help and general chat for all venomous & DWA species.

2. No one should buy straight into DWA, so the forum offers EVERYONE the opportunity to learn about DWA and various venomous species.

3. Owning a non-DWA but venomous snake is recognised as the best pre-cursor to DWA ownership. 

4. If/when I buy into DWA my (years of) Boa, Python and non-DWA venomous experience will blitz anyone going the non-licenced or uneducated route.
I'll earn my stripes :lol2: as a responsible keeper.
5. Fun. I love all creatures and peoples insistence on learning new things including my own.

Hope this helps.

Maffy.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

maffy said:


> 1. The opening commentary to the DWA section reads:
> 
> *DWA Species* (n Viewing)
> Help and general chat for all venomous & DWA species.
> ...


 Sorry im going to pull you up on a couple of things if i may.
You are indeed correct about being perfectly able, and i see no real reason why you cant post a non DWA venomous snake in here.
But i cant agree that Owning a FWC or non dwa venomous snake is recognised as the best pre curser into gaining or owning DWA snakes. I agree sometimes people do suggest them, and i may have done so in the past, but i have never endorsed them as being the best training snake for dwal. I would be more inclined to suggest asian rat snakes for hook training, especially something like a fiesty red tail rat snake. In my opinion FWC can be i little unpredictable. If you are trying to get to grips with hook and tailing you spend more time trying not to get bitten rather than perfect your technique, also most venomous snakes act nothing like a fwc, its like learning to ride a bike then going hang gliding. Just like driving just because somebody has a licence doesnt mean they have good handling skills, i Know a couple of people who are licenced dwal holders who handling skills leave a lot to be desired, some councils are easy it seems, and on the otherhand i have also known unlisenced people who are the dogs danglies when it comes to handling. Years of handling boas pythons and non dwa venomous means jack. Some one who has kept a couple of rat snakes for a year or so could easily be a far better handler, i believe you need some sort of aptitude to do it. Not too long ago i had somebody who wanted to get into DWAL he had kept snakes for 25 years or so and there wasnt much he hadnt kept and bred. his knowledge and experience was mindblowing, and all he ever wanted to do was own venomous. I had helped himout with some of his big nast Boids over the years and very much like myself i like to think nothing much fazed him. He came to my house for some training he was very good with the hook and his skills were easily good enough for dealing venomous.......but once i got a rattler out for him to hook into a rub he froze he just couldnt do it, he was the one person i have come into contact over the years that i would have put money on him having no problems whatsoever, he was really peed off about it and angry with himself as it was his ultimate goal. It just goes to show nothing can come anywhere near having to deal with the real thing.....his words were "s:censor:t....these things are f...ing deadly"

If anybody wants to go for there licence then do yourself and your family a favour find a mentor or get some training........... bravado means jack when your taking a dirt nap.

That said Maffy i do wish you all the best and hope you go about it the right way.......if you need any help PM me..


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

I've got to agree with Lee here. Owning a false water cobra as a precursor to front fanged venomous snakes, i.e DWA listed, is as much use as owning a corn. They can't kill you. Period. Your mind set is totally different. I mean no disrespect, but you simply cannot comprehend handling something that could end your life unless you do it. Knowing that a bite will make you feel ill is worlds apart from knowing that a bite could see you dead. You can't practice that. You need to get husbandry correct, handling skills correct, security protocols in place, etc. But when the big day comes and you're face to face with something that knows it's dangerous, and you know it can kill you, all your FWC handling experience evaporates and reality sinks in. 
I hate to be a doom monger but you're over simplifying the process of getting good enough to keep hots. You can't break it down to stages as clearly defined as you're trying to do. It can be broken down, but into nothing ore than:
1. Learn husbandry.
2. Learn handling.
3. Go venomous.
You can't say this particular snake will get you ready for venomous but you shouldn't own it until you've owned such and such.
There's no such thing as a practice snake for hots. If you want to keep vipers what use is a false water cobra? If you want to keep cobras, why would a copperhead be an ideal first venomous species? 
Similarly, despite sharing the name "cobra", FWC's are no good for practicing for elapids. Most importantly because that bit of the brain that says "you're going to die" isn't active.
Forget falsies, get mentored. 
I hope I don't sound harsh and I wish you the best of luck, but never assume you can practice for what can kill you on something that can't.
Dave


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*reply*

Guys, you are entitled to your opinion.

Opinions are not facts. They are subjective, open to discussion.

Please appreciate that as a responsible keeper I would most definitely seek to be mentored for venomous handling skills.

This is logical and humble thinking. The right thing to do.

You're also correct that it is about mentality. And men do have big egos that rub people up the wrong way.

You cannot make a sweeping statement that owning numerous snakes is not good preparation. Knowing the nature of snakes of all kinds is highly useful. 

In the early days we had Royals escape :lol2:.

Ownership includes basic husbandry and knowledge that a complete beginner just doesn't have. I knew nothing of snakes from a keeping point of view prior to ownership. Now I know lots.

Your concern is likely that you feel I'd not look to get mentored. If my message appeared this way, sorry chaps, but its not my style to go it alone on DWA. I do however applaud your regard to my welfare and your hobby.

Why not try Rottweiller ownership... :2thumb: I guarantee handling venomous won't be so unnerving. 

As for ratsnakes, don't King Cobras snack on them? :lol2:
Also, once off her hook I've tamed my FWC very nicely indeed. Although I did have a reminder the other day that she will defintely bite if I try to pick her up by the tail. 

It was a first for me.. and a last!!

Anyway guys I would want to be mentored for sure.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Its godd to here that you want to be mentored/trained for keeping and handling venomous. but what me and Dave were trying to get at is the notion that keeping a FWC or Boiga is the next step to keeping venomous.
the simple fact is you keep non venomous/rearfang snakes then you need to get some form of training/mentoring before moving to venomous its a huge jump to go from one to the other without it, There are people out there who think they are the dogs danglies when it comes to handling and have kept all manor of snakes and think getting venomous will be an easy next step. 
What i mean is you can teach yourself how to hook pin neck etc etc on non venomous, but you always subconsciously have it in your mind that the snake you are dealing with is not venomous and cant do much damage, trust me when it comes to dealing with the real deal everything changes your mind will be set on full alert and you will still have to do the hooking pinning tubing etc in the same way you do with the non venomous if you get my drift, this is what you need to get over, and in the end no other snake can ever give you that feeling


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## maffy (Dec 24, 2008)

*Dwa*

Leecb0, I think its unlikely I will go DWA to be honest.

I'm thinking that I'm pretty maxed out as regards husbandry maintenance etc. Plus I'm buying a new viv for my FWC soon. 

However if I did, you know I'd respect the need for proper handling technique etc. It's "the law" to be safe.

many thanks,
matt

PS I do think ratsnakes are lightning and I can see your point!! So joking aside it was a very worthy and notable mention. Especially as I have seen cobra charmers training with ratsnakes!! :lol2:.


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