# Blue Eyed Lucy - Patterning?



## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Hey guys, wonder if any of you Royal morph experts can give me a helping hand with something that seems to be doing backflips in my brain. Just cant work it out. 

Basically problem is, I plan on getting a Blue Eyed Lucy into my collection, definetly want one because of the way it looks. Im wanting a Super Mojave to eventually breed to the phantom for Purple Passions. 

Ive now also got the chance to get a male Enchi Lesser to throw to the super mojave, I was just wondering what would happen if I got the Enchi, Lesser and Mojave all in one animal? 

Would it still be a completely white snake that I could not identify between a normal BEL and one with Enchi in or would it dramatically alter the pattern? 

Enchi Lesser x Super Mojave - 

1/4 Mojave
1/4 Lesser Mojave - BEL
1/4 Enchi Mojave
1/4 Enchi Lesser Mojave - BEL


So theoretically I have a 50% chance of hitting a blue eyed lucy with the above pairing, and Im not to keen on the idea if I cant successfully identify what Ive hatched? 


Many thanks as always and sorry if I seem to have rambled on! 

Spuddy.


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## JBR (Oct 1, 2006)

*My views ..*

As you asked ...

Q: Would it still be a completely white snake that I could not identify between a normal BEL and one with Enchi in or would it dramatically alter the pattern? 

A: You “might be/ should” be able to tell the different as I would guess the Enchi would add some extra colour back … like you can tell the difference between a regular ivory and a pastel ivory. But with any leucistic gene you might not be able to.

Q: I’m not to keen on the idea if I cant successfully identify what Ive hatched? 

A: Welcome to the big league :banghead:

I can tell you in all honestly EVERY breeder faces this problem, every year. I’m currently sitting with several litters where I’m not certain what I have produced (I have a good idea), but until they shed and grow its difficult. Even then once you hit multiple genes (normally around 3 and over), many breeders make good guesses and often get it wrong.

cheers, John


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Many thanks for your help John. It's a real head scratcher, glad you could shed some light on it. 


Still unsure on whether or not to pursue the Enchi Lesser thing now but I have PM'd you also regarding some other stuff :no1:


Spuddy.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I dont see why you wouldnt be able to tell an Enchi BEL from a BEL, you can see pattern when the Spider gene is chucked in the mix its just very faint.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

markhill said:


> I dont see why you wouldnt be able to tell an Enchi BEL from a BEL, you can see pattern when the Spider gene is chucked in the mix its just very faint.


 

Wasnt aware of this, thats why I was asking. 

Thanks : victory:


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## Komodo1 (Aug 30, 2009)

I have heard of using a black UV bulb. I have never used this but on a white snake, it is supposed to show any other patterning in the white. 

Ask Tony67 on here, he bought a Karma from Ralph Davis he thought the parents were phantom x lesser but in fact the parents were phantom x kingpin so he wanted to see if his Karma had any pinstripe in it, i don't know how successful he was.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Komodo1 said:


> I have heard of using a black UV bulb. I have never used this but on a white snake, it is supposed to show any other patterning in the white.
> 
> Ask Tony67 on here, he bought a Karma from Ralph Davis he thought the parents were phantom x lesser but in fact the parents were phantom x kingpin so he wanted to see if his Karma had any pinstripe in it, i don't know how successful he was.


 
Thanks matey, I'll keep it in mind but unfortunately I just missed out on that Enchi Lesser last night. Absolutely gutted. 

So now Im on the hunt for another Enchi Lesser at a good price like that one, or another decent double or triple gene morph - male only. 

Theres nothing about though atm :sad:


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## GJR (Jul 17, 2007)

Spuddy said:


> Thanks matey, I'll keep it in mind but unfortunately I just missed out on that Enchi Lesser last night. Absolutely gutted.
> 
> So now Im on the hunt for another Enchi Lesser at a good price like that one, or another decent double or triple gene morph - male only.
> 
> Theres nothing about though atm :sad:



Hiya, Have you dropped ballmorph on here a line ?

Adam has some cracking enchi-lessers in alongside other super sexy stuff.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

GJR said:


> Hiya, Have you dropped ballmorph on here a line ?
> 
> Adam has some cracking enchi-lessers in alongside other super sexy stuff.


 
Hey, yeah I have although his are £800 dearer :lol2:


Im in need of a good 2 or 3 double gene male, to go with a few different females. Have fallen for the Enchi Lesser now though - dammit! 


As a back up I may go for something like an Emperor Pin.


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## GJR (Jul 17, 2007)

Spuddy said:


> Hey, yeah I have although his are £800 dearer :lol2:
> 
> 
> Im in need of a good 2 or 3 double gene male, to go with a few different females. Have fallen for the Enchi Lesser now though - dammit!
> ...



Any Luck tracking down a super mojo ? I am after a male for the same project as you i believe ??


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

GJR said:


> Any Luck tracking down a super mojo ? I am after a male for the same project as you i believe ??


 
Purple passions? .... Not a female mate, found a male though. From "laf27" on here, send him a pm. I asked him through facebook about them, its not listed in his for sale thread atm. 

Also "mutations only" has a male on his website, take a look.

Ball Pythons Only - Available


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## GJR (Jul 17, 2007)

Spuddy said:


> Purple passions? .... Not a female mate, found a male though. From "laf27" on here, send him a pm. I asked him through facebook about them, its not listed in his for sale thread atm.
> 
> Also "mutations only" has a male on his website, take a look.
> 
> Ball Pythons Only - Available



Thanks loads..

Purple passions here we come....

I will drop them a line....If i come across a female i will drop you a line...

Thanks, Gareth


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

GJR said:


> Thanks loads..
> 
> Purple passions here we come....
> 
> ...


 

Indeed matey! ... Thanks buddy, its appreciated. I cant find one for love nor money. 

Very frustrating.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I have 28 eggs incubating atm all possibly sired by a Mojave.

If I get any females I'll be keeping a couple but the rest will be put up for sale if anyones interested?


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

markhill said:


> I have 28 eggs incubating atm all possibly sired by a Mojave.
> 
> If I get any females I'll be keeping a couple but the rest will be put up for sale if anyones interested?


 
super mojaves? ... Ill be interested in a female.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Spuddy said:


> super mojaves? ... Ill be interested in a female.


ah no, sorry missed that bit.

Just Mojos and hopefully a Spider Mojo or 6:whistling2:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

markhill said:


> ah no, sorry missed that bit.
> 
> Just Mojos and hopefully a Spider Mojo or 6:whistling2:


 
or 7,8,9,10 :whistling2:


Just after super mojaves matey, a female. 


And an Enchi Lesser male, if you know anybody!


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## GJR (Jul 17, 2007)

Spuddy said:


> or 7,8,9,10 :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Just after super mojaves matey, a female.
> ...



Thanks for the heads up, Laf is going to ping me some photos this afternoon....

Good luck on your quest,, at least there is 2 sets of eyes peeled for you now...

Gareth


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Spuddy said:


> or 7,8,9,10 :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Just after super mojaves matey, a female.
> ...


well I got an 11 egg clutch from Spider x Mojave so a couple at least would be nice.

Have you spoke to Dave (Biogeny)?
He has a bit if a thing for Enchis and I'd be surprised if he didn't get an Enchi Lesser this season.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

markhill said:


> well I got an 11 egg clutch from Spider x Mojave so a couple at least would be nice.
> 
> Have you spoke to Dave (Biogeny)?
> He has a bit if a thing for Enchis and I'd be surprised if he didn't get an Enchi Lesser this season.


 

Jeeze, what a lovely big clutch! Hope you do well out of it mate : victory:


Ahh thanks man, I'll drop him a PM now! :no1:



Edit: ... Is he still a member on here mate? .. Just searched for him, but returned no results and looked through the members list and couldnt see him


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## GJR (Jul 17, 2007)

Yes he is try DE73.....


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

GJR said:


> Yes he is try DE73.....


different username than CBRF then?


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

markhill said:


> different username than CBRF then?


 
He only had Enchi Lesser females, diddums! 


Back to square one again, unless I go for a male Enchi Butter...


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## tony167 (Dec 18, 2009)

*Links Links Links*

Ohhh White snake thing see below 

‪White Balls under Black light!‬‏ - YouTube

Super Mojave Male see mohammeds new web site
Ball Pythons Only


Butter Enchi again above. Mohammed just sold two but has one more to sex! 


:whistling2:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

tony167 said:


> Ohhh White snake thing see below
> 
> ‪White Balls under Black light!‬‏ - YouTube
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the video : victory: .. I'll have to give it ago. Although shouldnt need to with Enchi Butter/Lesser x Super Mojave now :2thumb:


See the thread by me "They call me Mellow Yellow" here in Genetics section too 


Yeah Ive been talking to Mohammed, just waiting for him to sex the last one as I missed out on the other two. I need a super mojave female also, so I can throw it to the Phantom male. So need an Enchi Butter/Lesser male for definite. 


Nowhere apart from Mohammed is producing any Enchi Lessers/Butters, or not that I can find anyways.


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## tony167 (Dec 18, 2009)

*More guchi stuff*

snowball on captivebred has hit a super lucy clown twice from a lesser clown pairing. Im so jealous. He's deciding on its name as we speak.

Clowns are back in Blackpool (blacklight) - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum

pastel will show, enchi more so. spider shows too underblack light, pin a little more difficult it seems but at about 700/800 grams or grown on its easier to see under blacklight.


Its the way forward! fantastic new project that most keepers have the genes to play with!


Enchi butter is a strong combo, won't be many. If that last one is a female i have dibbs


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

tony167 said:


> snowball on captivebred has hit a super lucy clown twice from a lesser clown pairing. Im so jealous. He's deciding on its name as we speak.
> 
> Clowns are back in Blackpool (blacklight) - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum
> 
> ...


 

That is pretty awesome, having a worlds first and all that too :no1:


Yeah if its female I wont be fighting you for her :bash: haha. ... I need a male. ... Theres that Enchi Butter Fire that someones just hatched out on here, pretty impressive. 

Not sure if its for sale or anything, but pretty epic none the less. Good potential with it, although breeding that to a super mojave reduces my chances of producing a "mellow yellow" ball in the clutch.


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## Reptilepit (Dec 2, 2010)

*Super Lesser Super Enchi*

Hi,

Just to shed some light on your question regarding getting colour and pattern onto a leucistic is a very good one and one that there is still a lot to be proved out in that area.

This is a Super Lesser Super Enchi (I am awaiting confirmation that it is a super Enchi). You can clearly see the colour coming through on this leucistic... What a beautiful animal.










The Karmas do exhibit a stripe down their spine from birth that becomes more intense yellow with age. I think the Karmas will hold other pigments better than leucistics, proof will be in the pudding when more combinations are produced.

Tony's Karma definitely does exhibit pinn looking markings on the side even in normal light. This was produced from a Kingpin x Phantom breeding so he has a good chance in it being one, I think the colours and pattern with express themselves with age as she didn't exhibit any markings aside from the stripe down the back as a baby.

Will post some new pictures of my Karma girl soon.

I see you are looking for some nice morphs. I will have some nice double and triple gene morphs becoming available soon too.

Many Thanks,
Millz
Reptile Pit | 07931 377 066 | [email protected]


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