# Power feeding



## septicrazorwire (Aug 2, 2011)

someone recommended to me that i should power feed my T's if i want them to grow quicker

IS THIS CRUEL OR ANYWAY DISTRESSING TO THE T ?


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

septicrazorwire said:


> someone recommended to me that i should power feed my T's if i want them to grow quicker
> 
> IS THIS CRUEL OR ANYWAY DISTRESSING TO THE T ?


This happens alot with big snakes,

they way I look at it, how many BIG body builders die early because they put to much stress on there body ?

so why do the same to a snake/T/anything

It's better to watch them grow naturally, if you want a bigger T buy them in stages

say get a sling, a juvie and a sub adult so you have at least one T at a futher stage of growth


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

I wouldn't do it personally. I've heard about moulting problems because the T is forced to moult when they might not be ready. 

If I were you I'd stick to a normal feeding shedule, they will grow eventually, I promise!


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

septicrazorwire said:


> someone recommended to me that i should power feed my T's if i want them to grow quicker
> 
> IS THIS CRUEL OR ANYWAY DISTRESSING TO THE T ?


People tend to power feed for two reasons mainly, the first being to grow slings onto juvenile stages faster. Other reasons for power feeding are usually for breeding purposes, ie to speed a male or a female up to maturity or sometimes to season a female for pairing.

It isnt cruel in anyway, nor can it cause any stress to the tarantula than feeding normally would. Although there is a possibility it may reduce the tarantulas overall lifespan.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

vivalabam said:


> I wouldn't do it personally. I've heard about moulting problems because the T is forced to moult when they might not be ready.


Ive never heard that one before, have you any links or information you could post about that?


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

mcluskyisms said:


> Ive never heard that one before, have you any links or information you could post about that?


I don't remember where but someone said it on the forum once. Maybe I'm talking crap then, my apologise!


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

vivalabam said:


> I don't remember where but someone said it on the forum once. Maybe I'm talking crap then, my apologise!


You don't have to apologise, I was just wondering about it as I have neither read nor heard of that phenomenon.


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## septicrazorwire (Aug 2, 2011)

o yeah dont get me wrong i dont plan on doing it its just a guy in work who seems to know everything said he's feed his four times a week or untill they turned the feed away

he reckons that they know how much to eat but he does talk alot of :censor: anyway

i suppose its like them people that feed there dogs steroids and strap them to a walkin machine lol


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

There's not really any such thing as a "normal" feeding schedule though. A wild tarantula's prey insects will likely go through boom and bust cycles themselves. So sometimes the T's might get loads to eat and other times nothing for several months. If anything duplicating that is more natural than reliably feeding it one cricket every Sunday morning.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

garlicpickle said:


> There's not really any such thing as a "normal" feeding schedule though. A wild tarantula's prey insects will likely go through boom and bust cycles themselves. So sometimes the T's might get loads to eat and other times nothing for several months. If anything duplicating that is more natural than reliably feeding it one cricket every Sunday morning.


Couldn't agree more, I didn't feed my AF _B.albopilosum_ since January as she looked healthy enough, she moulted about a fortnight ago so I gave her a cricket and she snaffled it down.


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

garlicpickle said:


> There's not really any such thing as a "normal" feeding schedule though. A wild tarantula's prey insects will likely go through boom and bust cycles themselves. So sometimes the T's might get loads to eat and other times nothing for several months. If anything duplicating that is more natural than reliably feeding it one cricket every Sunday morning.


This is how I feed my spiders. I have no set routine for them and they are all healthy enough. I might keep slings to twice a week at the most but that's about as much routine as it gets even then it isn't always the case. If they start looking too fat then I just stop feeding them until they moult.

Edit to add..... I don't let them go months, just re-read your post and saw that bit :blush:


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

kris74 said:


> This is how I feed my spiders. I have no set routine for them and they are all healthy enough. I might keep slings to twice a week at the most but that's about as much routine as it gets even then it isn't always the case. If they start looking too fat then I just stop feeding them until they moult.
> 
> Edit to add..... I don't let them go months, just re-read your post and saw that bit :blush:


well my B. smithi fasted herself for around a year before moulting with no ill effects, and now after her moult she's eating quite well. But I have others that would eat until they almost burst if I allowed them to.


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## kevhutch (Feb 18, 2010)

i thought a spider would only eat if it was hungry

the other one is to slow down males by not feeding as much


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

This subject has been covered so much it makes me wonder why you didnt do a simple search. Certainly worthwhile if you wish to get all the viewpoints quickly.

Power feeding isnt like Power Weights. The detrimental effects are reported by numerous sources. 

Here's one of my recent replies on the subject. 
"Overfeeding speeds up the metabolism, therefore increasing the rate of moults which perhaps they are not ready for, you'll note many tarantula are reported to have issues when moulting.
Ray Gabriel noted shorter lifespan and less fertility in powerfed tarantula.
More importantly a group led by the chairman of ATS brought together to discuss issues within the hobby stated that overfeeding was the biggest threat to our hobby."


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> This subject has been covered so much it makes me wonder why you didnt do a simple search. Certainly worthwhile if you wish to get all the viewpoints quickly.
> 
> *Power feeding isnt like Power Weights.* The detrimental effects are reported by numerous sources.
> 
> ...


Sorry dude, I couldn't think of anything else to compare it to :blush:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

lol Tyler, I wasnt picking up on your post, more a case of saying that because the word Power is used that that doesnt infer good


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> lol Tyler, I wasnt picking up on your post, more a case of saying that because the word Power is used that that doesnt infer good


Ahh Ok dude, I didn't think you were picking on my post ,

Just felt I should explain why I gave that as an example :blush:


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## vivalabam (Aug 8, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> This subject has been covered so much it makes me wonder why you didnt do a simple search. Certainly worthwhile if you wish to get all the viewpoints quickly.
> 
> Power feeding isnt like Power Weights. The detrimental effects are reported by numerous sources.
> 
> ...


I knew I read it somewhere. :blush:


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

vivalabam said:


> I wouldn't do it personally. I've heard about moulting problems because the T is forced to moult when they might not be ready.
> 
> If I were you I'd stick to a normal feeding shedule, they will grow eventually, I promise!





mcluskyisms said:


> Ive never heard that one before, have you any links or information you could post about that?


 
If the abdomen on the tarantula gets to big it can cause problems when moulting I think she is meaning fella or even what Pete said lol that will teach me to finish reading the thread first lol


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> "Overfeeding speeds up the metabolism, therefore increasing the rate of moults which perhaps they are not ready for, you'll note many tarantula are reported to have issues when moulting.


Ive powerfed many spiderlings to speed up their rate to juvenile and I haven't had any trouble ever with any tarantula (spiderling to adult) in moulting?



Poxicator said:


> Ray Gabriel noted shorter lifespan and less fertility in powerfed tarantula.


Is there a paper I can read on this somewhere? I would like to read it.



Poxicator said:


> More importantly a group led by the chairman of ATS brought together to discuss issues within the hobby stated that overfeeding was the biggest threat to our hobby."


I think overfeeding can be a minor problem, although I don't for one moment think it is the _biggest_ threat within the hobby.

As Lisa mentioned, in the wild how can we judge what a tarantula eats and how often throughout its natural lifespan? They may be near a constant food source in some locality's whereas others may find food more scarce to come by. I personally believe that yes of course it will speed up a tarantulas metabolism and moult rate, that in itself will therefore naturally reduce the tarantulas overall lifespan. Although I fail to see how this can be detrimental to the tarantulas actual moulting process?


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Dr3d said:


> If the abdomen on the tarantula gets to big it can cause problems when moulting I think she is meaning fella or even what Pete said lol that will teach me to finish reading the thread first lol


Well people who keep adults obese I do not personally agree with, although I still struggle how that may make a tarantula force a moult? Tarantulas, well fed ones in particular tend to fast for months on end whilst preparing to moult, and one of the reasons for this must be a way to naturally make the process easier.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

If a spider wants to eat it will eat. You cant physically force it to eat. In the wild they will eat what they want when they want. I will power feed a male ready for a female but i dont do it for every T lol


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

mcluskyisms said:


> Ive powerfed many spiderlings to speed up their rate to juvenile and I haven't had any trouble ever with any tarantula (spiderling to adult) in moulting?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Ive read all about this on BTS chris very intresting.....: victory:


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## Leanne47 (Mar 24, 2009)

I wouldn't do it, when I first started keeping Ts I 'power fed' them - not deliberately but I didn't really realise how little they needed, so they were always fed more than once a week. The males matured very early, were all very small for their sp, most of them never made a sperm web, most of them wouldn't breed and they died young. There are less signs with the females but my B.vagans who's the size of an AF also won't breed and just becomes aggressive to any male put in. To me it's too consistent to be a coincidence.

Now I feed small slings (1-2cm) once a week, juvies once every 1-2 weeks (depends on sp and size) and adults, unless there's special circumstances once every 3 weeks and they still look porky compared to the WC tarantulas I had.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

selina20 said:


> If a spider wants to eat it will eat. You cant physically force it to eat. In the wild they will eat what they want when they want. I will power feed a male ready for a female but i dont do it for every T lol


Yeah I agree, like I mentioned in my original post, I cant see any other reasons to powerfeed other than feeding slings up to juvenile or for breeding purposes.



Dr3d said:


> Ive read all about this on BTS chris very intresting.....: victory:


I did a search when Pete used the quotation marks hoping it would lead me to the original post/thread although it only brought me back here... Haha


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Leanne47 said:


> I wouldn't do it, when I first started keeping Ts I 'power fed' them - not deliberately but I didn't really realise how little they needed, so they were always fed more than once a week. The males matured very early, were all very small for their sp, most of them never made a sperm web, most of them wouldn't breed and they died young. There are less signs with the females but my B.vagans who's the size of an AF also won't breed and just becomes aggressive to any male put in. To me it's too consistent to be a coincidence.
> 
> Now I feed small slings (1-2cm) once a week, juvies once every 1-2 weeks (depends on sp and size) and adults, unless there's special circumstances once every 3 weeks and they still look porky compared to the WC tarantulas I had.


Did u spray them well when they matured??? Iv noticed for some reason MMs drink a lot more than females and sometimes a good spray encourages a sperm web. Also sometimes you will not notice a sperm web. Were you 100% sure they were pure vagans and not a hybrid??? In that you knew the parents were definately a pure vagans and not a pet trade one??


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## Leanne47 (Mar 24, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Did u spray them well when they matured??? Iv noticed for some reason MMs drink a lot more than females and sometimes a good spray encourages a sperm web. Also sometimes you will not notice a sperm web. Were you 100% sure they were pure vagans and not a hybrid??? In that you knew the parents were definately a pure vagans and not a pet trade one??


Yeah the males always had their water bowls topped up, they were sprayed occasionally but not that much as they were sp of Brachypelma and Grammostola. I also tried other things like putting some of the female's web in with them and shark tanking. When I eventually gave up and brought males in from e.g TSS, they were kept in the same conditions and made many sperm webs and would breed readily.
As for the B.vagans, I suppose I can't be 100%, I'm as sure as I can be but if there are hybrids in the first place then I'd be surprised if that was the only reason.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Leanne47 said:


> Yeah the males always had their water bowls topped up, they were sprayed occasionally but not that much as they were sp of Brachypelma and Grammostola. I also tried other things like putting some of the female's web in with them and shark tanking. When I eventually gave up and brought males in from e.g TSS, they were kept in the same conditions and made many sperm webs and would breed readily.
> As for the B.vagans, I suppose I can't be 100%, I'm as sure as I can be but if there are hybrids in the first place then I'd be surprised if that was the only reason.


Also if they were from the same sac then that could suggest why they were both small.


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

mcluskyisms said:


> I did a search when Pete used the quotation marks hoping it would lead me to the original post/thread although it only brought me back here... Haha


Sorry fella I just had a hunt myself but cant find it, maybe pete will do the honours in a bit


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## Leanne47 (Mar 24, 2009)

selina20 said:


> Also if they were from the same sac then that could suggest why they were both small.


Yeah it could do, but they were different species. The males were - B.vagans, G.pulchra, G.rosea, G.pulchripes, and one GBB. The females are small/average in size.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Leanne47 said:


> Yeah it could do, but they were different species. The males were - B.vagans, G.pulchra, G.rosea, G.pulchripes, and one GBB. The females are small/average in size.


Males all seem to mature at different sizes. When i got 2 males on 50/50 for my T.gigas 1 was about 4 inches while the other was nearer 6 inches.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

selina20 said:


> If a spider wants to eat it will eat. You cant physically force it to eat. In the wild they will eat what they want when they want. I will power feed a male ready for a female but i dont do it for every T lol


Really Sel, this doesnt sound right at all. For a start, in the wild, food comes along and moves off or gets eaten. In the confines of an enclosure food rotates around the enclosure constantly available, not at all like the sources available in the wild.

In the wild people have not described abrasions, nor found them with huge abdomens (apart from when they are gravid). And yet Im sure you could easily find examples of that within this forum without leaving your chair.

To put it simply, the tarantula doesnt have the brain to figure its overeating. It works on instinct - there's food available, eat it!

The issue of feeding a male for breeding is another issue I find a little comical. At what point do we discover the T we have are males? as slings? or juveniles? or sub-adult? At what time do we make sure our breeding programme of males and females should be governed by feeding and heating? Its something often repeated but I'd bet few actually do this for much longer than 6 months.

Chris, over what timeframe have you seen there's no issues to your tarantula. Over how many generations? Have you compared this with powerfed and balanced diets? Have you reported it? The reason I ask is because often I see people asking for reports to prove statements and yet they'll readily stick to their own statements without producing any reports. There's some irony in that IMO. 

The thread I refer to comes from BTS, with sources elsewhere, but the topic was feeding mice to Ts and expanded into issues with feeding locusts amongst other issues.

I believe, somewhere in the BTS journals, you can find Ray Gabriels reports on feeding. I might add that Ray doesnt classify powerfeeding slings to get them through the vulnerable early stages as an issue, infact he recommends it.

Powerfeeding doesnt guarantee issues, but it clearly is recognised as having the potential to cause them.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Having read Pete's response to a near identical thread like two weeks ago ( http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spiders-inverts/722120-overfeeding-slings.html) I'm inclined to give more weight to the argument that power feeding can cause problems.



Poxicator said:


> good replies Toby.
> 
> Here's comment from
> *Christian Elowsky*
> ...


Now the metals should be as available in the mass feeding as in slow feeding, but there's some sense to the argument.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> Chris, over what timeframe have you seen there's no issues to your tarantula. Over how many generations? Have you compared this with powerfed and balanced diets? Have you reported it? The reason I ask is because often I see people asking for reports to prove statements and yet they'll readily stick to their own statements without producing any reports. There's some irony in that IMO.
> 
> The thread I refer to comes from BTS, with sources elsewhere, but the topic was feeding mice to Ts and expanded into issues with feeding locusts amongst other issues.
> 
> ...





Hedgewitch said:


> Having read Pete's response to a near identical thread like two weeks ago ( http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spiders-inverts/722120-overfeeding-slings.html) I'm inclined to give more weight to the argument that power feeding can cause problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Now the metals should be as available in the mass feeding as in slow feeding, but there's some sense to the argument.


I think y'all not catching my drift TBH, I said in my first response to this thread that powerfeeding is usually only used in two situations, to either grow slings on to juvenile stage faster or to help season adults for breeding purposes. I actually _only_ powerfeed certain individuals myself for those two reasons, and not to the ridiculous extents I see certain individuals at on many forums I may add. 

For growing slings on I would feed them appropriate sized prey items roughly twice a week (or every 4 days), and for seasoning adults I would feed the male or female tarantula I want to moult sooner two crickets instead of one cricket a week.

Im not saying people should powerfeed their tarantulas for their whole lifespans, I only powerfeed for the reasons I mentioned. As for tarantulas developing ulcers on the underneath of their abdomens. That is usually a trait of vastly overweight/obese tarantulas (usually kept on the wrong substrate I may add).


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> In the wild people have not described abrasions, nor found them with huge abdomens (apart from when they are gravid).
> 
> To put it simply, the tarantula doesnt have the brain to figure its overeating. It works on instinct - there's food available, eat it!
> 
> The issue of feeding a male for breeding is another issue I find a little comical. At what point do we discover the T we have are males? as slings? or juveniles? or sub-adult? At what time do we make sure our breeding programme of males and females should be governed by feeding and heating? Its something often repeated but I'd bet few actually do this for much longer than 6 months.


just a couple of things I was wondering about

How do they tell that a tarantula in the wild with a huge abdomen is gravid as oppose to just fat? 

So could a tarantula eat and eat until it bursts then?

How do you mean slowing the male growth down or speeding the males growth up? If you can sex a moult from say a 4th or 5th instar maybe you can start there?

The ulcer thing, well how old are the tarantulas that have got this?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> To put it simply, the tarantula doesnt have the brain to figure its overeating. It works on instinct - there's food available, eat it!


I agree with the sentiments of most posts so far, but this is a little too simplified imho. 

Spiders will refuse food and do have preferences. 

However, you have to place that into an ecological perspective - it _will _vary with species and habitat, and season, and lifestage. 

In the US many spiders experience a marked "winter" where food is basically non-existant. In SE Asia, dry periods may mark a reduction in food, as in Southern Africa, but there also exists those regions where the climate is essentially similar year round, and food for generalist predators plentiful. 

I cannot show this quantitatively, but I would think that species from highly seasonal environments are more 'extreme' in eating habits than those typically facing relative stability. What I mean by this is that I'd imagine the US species probably cope better with intense feeding followed by fasting that say, some of the Ornithoctoninae from reasonably stable chunks of tropical Asia. 

In regions where you might face 6 months of starvation every year, it makes sense to have the ability to depress metabolism for the duration, but also kick it up a gear beforehand when food is plentiful. Boom and bust as such. Many desert arthropods do the same thing, albeit constantly as food and moisture are always uncertain and not seasonal as such. 

However...

From David Wise's book on Araneomorph spiders, I would say that almost all spiders in the wild are food limited. He spends a couple of chapters arguing the reasons for this, and I recommend the book if interested (it's sadly now about £40 - D. Wise, _Spiders in Ecological Webs). 

_It seems pretty certain in orb weavers and ground hunting Lycosidae that they are constantly hungry, ands that it limits their fecundity. In tarantulas it would seem likely that prey quality and quantity influence fecundity too, but of course you can go overboard which I think "powerfeeding" is. 

In captivity, it takes a lot to satiate true spiders, but it does happen that Lycosids and such will refuse food. They will also select prey preferentially, and it seems no coincidence they will select more nutritious prey over those that are of low quality (or even slightly toxic if consumed as a primary prey item, not the paper I wanted to quote but here is one of similar conclusion: Effects of prey quality and availability on the life history of a trap-building predator - Mayntz - 2003 - Oikos - Wiley Online Library). 

Dysdera crocata is another species that in the wild is thought to feed almost exclusively on woodlice, yet in captivity will show preference to other prey items offered. There are other examples, but it seems spiders do know what they prefer, and it's not just a size thing of the prey item. 

Aside from all that however, I do find the whole powerfeeding thing a bizarre thing to want to do.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

How do they tell that a tarantula in the wild with a huge abdomen is gravid as oppose to just fat? 
_I can only go by the claim people have made as to gravid or not when they've found them in the wild but I suspect there are tell tale signs with many species be it the shape of the abdomen (round or pear-shaped), open epigastric furrow, clues within the hide etc._

So could a tarantula eat and eat until it bursts then?
_LOL, Ive heard this many times on the web, I don't believe they burst open due to gluttony. As Chris has mentioned above, large abdomens on abrasive substrates is reported to cause issues. Ive certainly seen tarantula suffering from ulcers and sores that could very conceivably be due to too large an abdomen and overfeeding._

How do you mean slowing the male growth down or speeding the males growth up? If you can sex a moult from say a 4th or 5th instar maybe you can start there?_
IF you can sex it. IF you do. Lets take a scenario, you have a bunch of Pokies, on the 5th moult you've confirmed its male. Another 2 moults and its likely to be mature. The females are likely to be mature too within the same amount of moults but a different timeframe. Is it conceivable that the male can be slowed down enough within that timeframe to mate with the mature female. Or to take another scenario, you have an adult female that needs a moult and a sub-adult male. The timeframe involved in getting these to moult at the same time IMO does not constitute powerfeeding. As Ive suggested powerfeeding in the short term is not the issue._

The ulcer thing, well how old are the tarantulas that have got this?
_No idea_


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## Lucybug (May 10, 2011)

Poxicator said:


> How do they tell that a tarantula in the wild with a huge abdomen is gravid as oppose to just fat?
> _I can only go by the claim people have made as to gravid or not when they've found them in the wild but I suspect there are tell tale signs with many species be it the shape of the abdomen (round or pear-shaped), open epigastric furrow, clues within the hide etc._
> 
> So could a tarantula eat and eat until it bursts then?
> ...


 
Iv seen tarantulas that are at a decent size, not over weight, nor under weight. Yet they have ulcers, and/or sore's... There not over weight, there just as normal as can be, ... Explain ?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

If you've seen them why are you asking me to explain? Did you not ask the owner why they may have occurred? the feeding regime? the substrate? WC? etc.

Please refer to the quoted text from CE as to why this might be.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Really Sel, this doesnt sound right at all. For a start, in the wild, food comes along and moves off or gets eaten. In the confines of an enclosure food rotates around the enclosure constantly available, not at all like the sources available in the wild.
> 
> In the wild people have not described abrasions, nor found them with huge abdomens (apart from when they are gravid). And yet Im sure you could easily find examples of that within this forum without leaving your chair.
> 
> ...


So how does a none eating G.rosea work then. Surely on the basis you stated a spider should eat all the time then??


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## Jonb1982 (Feb 20, 2011)

selina20 said:


> So how does a none eating G.rosea work then. Surely on the basis you stated a spider should eat all the time then??


 
oooh you opinionated know it all


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Jonb1982 said:


> oooh you opinionated know it all


Sowi :blush:.

Im still learning you know. If you dont ask questions then u dont get answers so you cant learn lol. Im not hear to start an argument and i dont state i know it all lmao.


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## Jonb1982 (Feb 20, 2011)

selina20 said:


> Sowi :blush:.
> 
> Im still learning you know. If you dont ask questions then u dont get answers so you cant learn lol. Im not hear to start an argument and i dont state i know it all lmao.


 
The hall of fame says otherwise :lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Jonb1982 said:


> The hall of fame says otherwise :lol2:


Thats cos u lot hate me. But im winning lol .


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

G. rosea is a classic example of a tarantula adapted to its environment and seasons. Its metabolism is built to withstand long periods where there's a lack of both food and moisture. It goes through seasonal changes that reduce it to an almost dormant state, particularly in the winter months when snow is prevalent. This "cooling period" is what R. Gurley describes as a significant part of the breeding process. During our summer months Chile can expect temperatures nearing freezing.

Its geared up to that, over millions of years, and we come along stick it in an enclosure and feed it every week. Its hardly surprising its a common cause for concern that it doesn't eat. LOL


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> How do they tell that a tarantula in the wild with a huge abdomen is gravid as oppose to just fat?
> _I can only go by the claim people have made as to gravid or not when they've found them in the wild but I suspect there are tell tale signs with many species be it the shape of the abdomen (round or pear-shaped), open epigastric furrow, clues within the hide etc._
> 
> So could a tarantula eat and eat until it bursts then?
> ...


Shape of abdomen? so round would indicate? pear shape would indicate?how long does an epigastric furrow remain open after mating and if a tarantula can be gravid without being mated then would the epigastric furrow be open now as well? what type of clues in the hide? I will also add that how come you can tell gravid females in the wild but not so well in captivity?

Yes but you said they do not have the brain to figure out they are over eating and that it if there is food available it will eat it, so is this to mean that they have no funtion in their brain to say that they are full? if not then it should in theroy be possible to feed a tarantula to death, as there is only so much a stomach can hold before it ruptures yes?

so male pokies mature in 7 moults? if so then I gues sexing one at 5th moult is not going to be a problem. And yes I think it is very possible to slow the time inbetween moults by lower temps and less food, or speed up a moult by higher temps and more food. I have to say I have done this a good number of times. I don't quite get the points you are making with "at what time do you start" comments as my answer would be to this once you have sexed them and worked out a breeding plan (if you are planing on mating siblings or spiders of different batches but the same size. This is really not hard to do either, just less food and a lower spot on the shelve seems to work well for me.

So ulcers could just as easy be an age thing as oppose to an over fed thing?


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

People complaining about their _G. rosea _not eating is pretty much like asking why all the leaves fell off your tree in the autumn...


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> G. rosea is a classic example of a tarantula adapted to its environment and seasons. Its metabolism is built to withstand long periods where there's a lack of both food and moisture. It goes through seasonal changes that reduce it to an almost dormant state, particularly in the winter months when snow is prevalent. This "cooling period" is what R. Gurley describes as a significant part of the breeding process. During our summer months Chile can expect temperatures nearing freezing.
> 
> Its geared up to that, over millions of years, and we come along stick it in an enclosure and feed it every week. Its hardly surprising its a common cause for concern that it doesn't eat. LOL


hang about you said ealier that if food is avaible it will eat it!:mf_dribble:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Shape of abdomen? so round would indicate? pear shape would indicate? A pear shaped abdomen is a good indication of a gravid pokie IME. how long does an epigastric furrow remain open after mating I sometimes see the epigastric furrow open immediately after mating, bulging furrow seems has been observed on some gravid females. and if a tarantula can be gravid without being mated then would the epigastric furrow be open now as well?  No idea concerning unmated females. what type of clues in the hide? Webbing I will also add that how come you can tell gravid females in the wild but not so well in captivity? Who said I could tell the difference in the wild? 

Yes but you said they do not have the brain to figure out they are over eating and that it if there is food available it will eat it, so is this to mean that they have no funtion in their brain to say that they are full? if not then it should in theroy be possible to feed a tarantula to death, as there is only so much a stomach can hold before it ruptures yes? In theory I guess it could be the case, in practise I'd think instinct plays a part too.

so male pokies mature in 7 moults? In my scenario, yes. if so then I gues sexing one at 5th moult is not going to be a problem. And yes I think it is very possible to slow the time inbetween moults by lower temps and less food, or speed up a moult by higher temps and more food. I have to say I have done this a good number of times. I don't quite get the points you are making with "at what time do you start" comments as my answer would be to this once you have sexed them and worked out a breeding plan (if you are planing on mating siblings or spiders of different batches but the same size. This is really not hard to do either, just less food and a lower spot on the shelve seems to work well for me. Yes. Congratulations. 5th - 7th moult is what I would determine short term feeding regime.

So ulcers could just as easy be an age thing as oppose to an over fed thing? Ulcers could be caused by a number of factors, I didn't feel the need to explore each, but age may be a cause.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> Shape of abdomen? so round would indicate? pear shape would indicate? A pear shaped abdomen is a good indication of a gravid pokie IME. So this is only good for pokies then?how long does an epigastric furrow remain open after mating I sometimes see the epigastric furrow open immediately after mating, bulging furrow seems has been observed on some gravid females.unmated gravid ones?and if a tarantula can be gravid without being mated then would the epigastric furrow be open now as well? No idea concerning unmated females. so its quite possible that some fat tarantulas in the wild may not be gravid?what type of clues in the hide? Webbing I will also add that how come you can tell gravid females in the wild but not so well in captivity? Who said I could tell the difference in the wild? sorry never ment the "you" as in you personly but in a general type of way if you (I mean you here) see what I mean?
> 
> Yes but you said they do not have the brain to figure out they are over eating and that it if there is food available it will eat it, so is this to mean that they have no funtion in their brain to say that they are full? if not then it should in theroy be possible to feed a tarantula to death, as there is only so much a stomach can hold before it ruptures yes? In theory I guess it could be the case, in practise I'd think instinct plays a part too.so instinct tells them they are full then?
> 
> ...


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## Lucybug (May 10, 2011)

Poxicator said:


> If you've seen them why are you asking me to explain? Did you not ask the owner why they may have occurred? the feeding regime? the substrate? WC? etc.
> 
> Please refer to the quoted text from CE as to why this might be.


 
Because your not open or stating it aint always the chubby spiders that happen to, that it can infact happen to the more healthy individuals.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes

Unknown, only when she needed to eat as it varied, coco fibre, Captive bred, ...


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Baldpoodle said:


> Poxicator said:
> 
> 
> > Shape of abdomen? so round would indicate? pear shape would indicate? A pear shaped abdomen is a good indication of a gravid pokie IME. So this is only good for pokies then? no idea, it's an example to answer your question. how long does an epigastric furrow remain open after mating I sometimes see the epigastric furrow open immediately after mating, bulging furrow seems has been observed on some gravid females.unmated gravid ones? I'm lost on your "unmated gravid" angle, I have no experience of these so I can't comment. and if a tarantula can be gravid without being mated then would the epigastric furrow be open now as well? No idea concerning unmated females. so its quite possible that some fat tarantulas in the wild may not be gravid? is this a serious question? what type of clues in the hide? Webbing I will also add that how come you can tell gravid females in the wild but not so well in captivity? Who said I could tell the difference in the wild? sorry never ment the "you" as in you personly but in a general type of way if you (I mean you here) see what I mean? Yes, I see what you mean.
> ...


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