# Carolina/Normal Corns



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Just wondering is a Carolina corn the same as a normal corn?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Yup. Carolina = Classic = Wildtype = Normal.


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## LauraandLee (Nov 11, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Just wondering is a Carolina corn the same as a normal corn?


 
We were told they were the same????


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

My oh keeps arguing with me over this saying they def arent. So this was the only way i could prove it thanks.


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## vickylolage (Oct 5, 2008)

Steve Sharp "Snake Breeder" will tell you no they are not the same.

They are similar but if I rememebr correctly when I spoke to him the carolinas are more red in colour and im sure it was thicker and more defined line borders on their markings. Other variations are the Miami.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

That's an "Okeetee" not a "Carolina".

The UK term "Carolina" is synonymous with "not a Miami, not an Okeetee, not a genetic recessive morph or combination morph."


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

vickylolage said:


> Steve Sharp "Snake Breeder" will tell you no they are not the same.
> 
> They are similar but if I rememebr correctly when I spoke to him the carolinas are more red in colour and im sure it was thicker and more defined line borders on their markings. Other variations are the Miami.


Ians Vivarium International Reptile Community Forum • Normal cornsnake

Ians Vivarium International Reptile Community Forum • Miami cornsnake

Ians Vivarium International Reptile Community Forum • Okeetee cornsnake

Carolina is the 'normal' or 'classic'.


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## Hana (Jun 18, 2008)

I bought what i thought was a carolina but in all the pics iv seen none of them are like her. She may just be a different variation of one


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Carolina is the name used by people who don't like their cornsnake to be called 'normal'

Also used by petshops to tack an extra few quid on a cornsnake because its got a fancy name and not called a normal

this is a pic of a normal:









and this is a pic of a "carolina" ( :roll: ).....









:2thumb:


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## Hana (Jun 18, 2008)

Haha thats so funny


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

You can really see the differences when you put them together like that!


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

eeji said:


> Carolina is the name used by people who don't like their cornsnake to be called 'normal'
> 
> Also used by petshops to tack an extra few quid on a cornsnake because its got a fancy name and not called a normal
> 
> ...


I bought this corn as a carolina!! 



















He is about 18 months old and looks different to other Carolina's i have seen!!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

That's because "Carolina" isn't a morph - it's "Anything that ISN'T a morph" - and can vary between "not quite grey enough for a Miami" to "not quite orange and bold-black-bordered enough for an Okeetee".

Yours is absolutely a young Normal/Carolina/Wildtype/Classic/Beeblebrox - on the "not quite grey enough for a Miami" side of the colour scale.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

charlie2e1dxy said:


> I bought this corn as a carolina!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


natural variation


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

eeji said:


> natural variation


 :lol2:Yup he was that colour when he was born, and 18 months later exactly the same!
My other carolina was that colour as a hatchling, but changed to a red/orangey colour:whistling2:


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

vickylolage said:


> Steve Sharp "Snake Breeder" will tell you no they are not the same.
> 
> They are similar but if I rememebr correctly when I spoke to him the carolinas are more red in colour and im sure it was thicker and more defined line borders on their markings. Other variations are the Miami.


This has been a bone of contention with me for a while.

Back in the late 80's a breeder friend (Alan) sold me some Hi-Red corns which were labeled as Carolina's. They were being sold as a locality and are NOT recognised these days.
These redder ones are NOT oakettes and look like a poor mans BloodRed.
They looked a bit like a bloodred on the back but had checkers underneither.
Alan kept his "Carolina" line true for a couple of generations. 
I lent my "Carolina's" to Alan and his brother one year for a group breeding. There was a problem and all the snakes died. 

However 3 years ago I was offered a pair from that original "Hi-Red Carolina" bloodline.
I bred them for 2 years and sold the babies as Hi-Red Carolina's before the male died. This year I bred the female hi-Red to a male I had held back from the previouse year. He was only a yearling but they produced eggs. She went down hill after laying the eggs and died. She must have been quite old for a breeder at that point as she was probably about 8 years old when I bought the pair.
Most of the eggs failed to hatch and the ones that did hatch were difficult feeder, which was rare for these Hi-Reds as they were normaly bigger as hatchlings than normal corns. 
I'll have a look to see if I have any photos of these Hi-Reds. Last photos I took were for a guy in Ireland last year who had some "new bloodred" bloodline from Germany and wanted to compare them.
There must be a lot of these still in the North East as Alan bred them for a few years and I sold hatchlings in 2006 and 2007.
I still think they are very different to "normal" corns as they have little or no white / yellow as adults, although as babies they just look like darker classics.
Maybe these "Hi-Reds" should have had some posh name stuck to them to differentiate them from other classicly colored corns.


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

Isn't that just natural variation that has been line bred?


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

To be honest I just don't know but they a look more like bloodreds than classics when adult. 
Maybe there is another gene at work there, but I never got anything other than Hi-Reds out of them, as I line bred them. If I had know they were so different to the norm, maybe I would have done some test breedings.
But back in those days I was mostly a lizard collector with only a fleeting interest in snakes, and none in corn morphs.
Most likely they wil just be colorful classics, not as bright as Oakettes though as they had a lot of black in them.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Blackecho said:


> Isn't that just natural variation that has been line bred?


the same could also be said of miami and okeetee too.

I think if the line being bred in the N.E had been given a different name, then maybe they would have taken off instead of melding away into normal-normal land.


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

Fair points.


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