# Rights and wrongs



## connor1999379 (Nov 7, 2012)

:welcome:

Wild-Caught in Madagascar: From forest to shoebox | Gecko Time

I just thought i would share this article, I feel it is important that we know how the animals we keep get here and that we truly respect and care for them as they are not supposed to be here. Hundreds of animals die (many endangered species) when being transported to their destinations for our pleasure; is this right?

I know its a big subject but if anyone could share some info and take this into account i would be very grateful.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Its not quite as simple as that. The article is very skewed against wild caught animals.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The article is interesting and thought provoking, but clearly not written from an unbiased view point. The Durrell Institute of Conservation and Ecology (DICE) has for many years been involved in studying the trade in wild collected reptiles and amphibians from Madagascar, it will be interesting to see what they have to say on the issue in the forthcoming report. In terms of mortality this is an issue often over stated, mortality in transport is well documented at 0.47%. Post shipping mortality rates vary between 3 & 5%, 10% would be extremely unusual. Pre shipping mortality rates are not as well documented, many Animal Rights organisations claim that for every animal shipped 6 die, the same groups claimed that mortality in shipping was 50% (as we know its’ 0.47%). This is an issue that DICE are currently looking at so it will be interesting to see some accurate data. Personally I think one of the most important issue is clarity at point of sale, purchasers need to be fully informed on the source of the animal they buy, if it’s of wild origin or captive breed.


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## connor1999379 (Nov 7, 2012)

Colinm i understand what your saying, i should of made the aims of the thread abit more clearly and will edit the introduction, I aiming to discuss and educate myself and others about the ads and cons/ rights and wrongs and issues within the hobby and what we as breeders, collectors and general owners can possibly do tackle any problems.


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## connor1999379 (Nov 7, 2012)

Chris Newman said:


> The article is interesting and thought provoking, but clearly not written from an unbiased view point. The Durrell Institute of Conservation and Ecology (DICE) has for many years been involved in studying the trade in wild collected reptiles and amphibians from Madagascar, it will be interesting to see what they have to say on the issue in the forthcoming report. In terms of mortality this is an issue often over stated, mortality in transport is well documented at 0.47%. Post shipping mortality rates vary between 3 & 5%, 10% would be extremely unusual. Pre shipping mortality rates are not as well documented, many Animal Rights organisations claim that for every animal shipped 6 die, the same groups claimed that mortality in shipping was 50% (as we know its’ 0.47%). This is an issue that DICE are currently looking at so it will be interesting to see some accurate data. Personally I think one of the most important issue is clarity at point of sale, purchasers need to be fully informed on the source of the animal they buy, if it’s of wild origin or captive breed.


And certainly Chris, if you could possibly put the link for the report onto the thread when it is posted i would be very grateful. 

And i think this issue you have mentioned is very important especially with endangered species which we are trying to conserve to allow a greater genetic variety. We could tackle this by promoting the documenting and recording the origins of geckos lineage, what breeders they came from, wild caught or not etc...


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