# Male Tokay aggression during "breeding" - WARNING - Graphic Images



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

I thought I'd post this to show people how important it is to keep a very close eye on animals when pairing up. I consider myself a bit OTT when it comes to monitoring my animals but even I got caught out. I use a CCTV camera to keep an eye on my Tokays when I pair them up and up to just I've had a few good matings with no aggression. Had a couple of the usual mating wounds which were treated at home. I paired up my patternless powder blue male with my yellow spot female last night and watched them on the TV for 3 hours before retiring to bed for the night. They showed no aggression and both of them seemed receptive towards eachother showing typical pre-mating behaviour. No mating actually took place while I was watching though. Feeling content with the pairing I went to bed. When I awoke I found this...







Now of course my first thought was "OMG, I better go on RFUK and see if anyone has a miracle cure!?" but then I thought a vet might be a better idea (Shock Horror). An hour later I was at the vet and the wound was being cleaned up. It was the first time I used the vet (Ian at ARK vets in Killamarsh/Sheffield) but he did a fantastic Job of cleaning it up. I've now got antibiotics for 2 weeks and an F10 bath every day. All being well she should be fine now she's in a sterile viv with sterile hides. Amazingly enough she stayed nice and bright the whole way through without showing any signs of stress.

Here's how she looked a couple of hours later...











As you can see he's made a real mess of her. damage to the body tail and head. I took a look back on the footage and found it only happened about half an hour after I went to bed. I'll pop it up for anyone to see who might be interested. The male is up on the top right and the female is on the bottom right at substrate level. You can see their eyes quite clearly. Anyway, here it is...

Male Tokay Aggression - YouTube

So in conclusion. Regardless of species, it is immensely important you keep an eye on pairings as appearances aren't always as they seem and all this happened in less than 2 MINUTES.


----------



## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Ouch! That's a big bit of missing skin. Hope it heals quickly and well.


----------



## trogdorable (Feb 4, 2011)

omg the poor girl ! =[
you must have been horrified to find that. it looks so painful . . .


----------



## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

Jesus, poor thing  I must say I am impressed at you using a CCTV camera to keep an eye on them during mating.
I must say though Tom I was a bit put out that you went to a vet *BEFORE* asking the people on here what to do about that very nasty looking wound :gasp::gasp::gasp:


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

GlassWalker said:


> Ouch! That's a big bit of missing skin. Hope it heals quickly and well.


Cheers : ) she looks good so far. Pairing up has ceased until she's fully healed!


trogdorable said:


> omg the poor girl ! =[
> you must have been horrified to find that. it looks so painful . . .


Aye it's very raw! Hardest part was "pinning" her without actually touching the wound. Got bitten a few times lol.


sarasin said:


> Jesus, poor thing  I must say I am impressed at you using a CCTV camera to keep an eye on them during mating.
> I must say though Tom I was a bit put out that you went to a vet *BEFORE* asking the people on here what to do about that very nasty looking wound :gasp::gasp::gasp:


It's not nearly as impressive as it seems. Bloody wires everywhere!

I was going to make a joke thread asking if anyone knew what to do as the vets were over half an hour away and charged money for treatment. Then I thought I might actually post a serious thread for once!


----------



## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

Ouch that's a lot worse than the mating bite my w/y had which is already fully healed.

I'm sure she will be fine though mate and yes i was surprised to find a serious thread no doubt somewhere along the lines you will edit my post.


*awaits an edited quote*


----------



## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

Tombo46 said:


> It's not nearly as impressive as it seems. Bloody wires everywhere!
> 
> I was going to make a joke thread asking if anyone knew what to do as the vets were over half an hour away and charged money for treatment. Then I thought I might actually post a serious thread for once!


Wonder how long it would have been before anyone decided a trip to the vets was the best thing, even if it was half an hour away :lol2:

Seriously though Tom, good on you for getting the tokay treated asap - I know a few on here that wouldn't have bothered, maybe thinking
'' hell its gonna die with a wound like that, so why waste money'' :bash:


----------



## nads (Apr 21, 2010)

Poor girlie  Is this the males 1st season?did he have any wounds?I would be scared to pair him again..These things happen so fast,even if you were watching,i'm sure the outcome would have been the same,do not think?(didn't watch the vid thou)
Vicky


----------



## Ker (Feb 8, 2012)

Ouch, looks like it has been cleaned up nicely though, hope she has a speedy recovery, did you put the female in the males cage or vice versa? or did you put them in a completely different cage altogether?


----------



## Junior13reptilez (Oct 17, 2010)

'Now of course my first thought was "OMG, I better go on RFUK and see if anyone has a miracle cure!?" but then I thought a vet might be a better idea (Shock Horror)'.


----------



## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

ouch! glad you got her sorted out real quick hun and fingers crossed she'll bounce back good : victory:


Tombo46 said:


> So in conclusion. Regardless of species, it is immensely important you keep an eye on pairings as appearances aren't always as they seem and all this happened in less than 2 MINUTES.


*nods* it's not just the females who can come off worse either ~ one of my males had a chunk ripped from his tail by a female just after they'd mated (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/647550-damage-leo-do.html)


----------



## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

The cut looks a whole lot better before and after seeing the vet!I'm sure she will recover in no time!


----------



## berbers (May 29, 2010)

jeez tom, thats savage:gasp:

is it normal premating behaviour or is he just an ar*****e?!?


----------



## blizard87 (May 9, 2011)

just watched the video and scratching my head a bit as he seems to have a good pop and its all over in the blink of an eye.if it was true agression why didnt he carry on.wondering wether it was just all too much and he got too excited.this is just a theory but could this kind of behaviour possibly be avoided by pairing earlier in the year before the so called "mating season" starts or will they mate on indroduction whatever the time of year???


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

MP reptiles said:


> Ouch that's a lot worse than the mating bite my w/y had which is already fully healed.
> 
> I'm sure she will be fine though mate and yes i was surprised to find a serious thread no doubt somewhere along the lines you will edit my post.
> 
> ...


No quote editing here! this is a serious thread, there'll be no tomfoolery here! It's the worst mating bite I've seen before too, I was gobsmacked when I saw it.



sarasin said:


> Wonder how long it would have been before anyone decided a trip to the vets was the best thing, even if it was half an hour away :lol2:
> 
> Seriously though Tom, good on you for getting the tokay treated asap - I know a few on here that wouldn't have bothered, maybe thinking
> '' hell its gonna die with a wound like that, so why waste money'' :bash:


Money wasn't even worth talking about. Only £62! I can't understand the mentality of not taking your reptile to a vet. People spend £100's on a set-up and the lizard and then suddenly its not worth spending £30 on for a consultation. I don't care what they say about not being able to afford it. Aside from people in serious trouble with debts and no family support. There's no way you can't find such a small amount of money from somewhere.



nads said:


> Poor girlie  Is this the males 1st season?did he have any wounds?I would be scared to pair him again..These things happen so fast,even if you were watching,i'm sure the outcome would have been the same,do not think?(didn't watch the vid thou)
> Vicky


This is the males first season for what I'm aware. The strange thing is, he was paired up with a different female before this one with no problems. He was housed with her for about a week before he was seperated and they were like 2 peas in a pod. One possible explaination is Tokays often bond with their mate and sometimes will not breed with any other females. it's plausable that he didn't want her and got sick of her advances. the only thing that baffles me about that theory is the fact that he was displaying typical pre-mating behaviour. Unless I mistook this for dominant behaviour?



Ker said:


> Ouch, looks like it has been cleaned up nicely though, hope she has a speedy recovery, did you put the female in the males cage or vice versa? or did you put them in a completely different cage altogether?


I put the male in with the females to give the female the dominant edge. I find them more receptive that way. males don't care that they are somewhere different if there's tail to chase! The vet did a cracking job, I'm really pleased with it. 



SleepyD said:


> ouch! glad you got her sorted out real quick hun and fingers crossed she'll bounce back good : victory:
> 
> *nods* it's not just the females who can come off worse either ~ one of my males had a chunk ripped from his tail by a female just after they'd mated (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/647550-damage-leo-do.html)


Ooooya, that's a nasty 'un! just goes to show. I think some people reading this thread may think "well thats just tokays for you". I can't stress enough that this isn't the case. apart from the usual mating bites, Tokays are very gentle towards their own kind and have even protected them from predators. This can happen with any pairing of any species.


NickBenger said:


> The cut looks a whole lot better before and after seeing the vet!I'm sure she will recover in no time!


Aye it does! I'm looking forward to seeing how it heals. I'm going to keep a photographic record of the healing.


berbers said:


> jeez tom, thats savage:gasp:
> 
> is it normal premating behaviour or is he just an ar*****e?!?


Not normal at all. I have seen a male grasp her side like that before though. I'm still torn as to whether he was just over keen or not. I can't see him going to those lengths to try and mate. If the female isn't bothered they don't usually kick off like that. After all, it takes 2 to tango.


blizard87 said:


> just watched the video and scratching my head a bit as he seems to have a good pop and its all over in the blink of an eye.if it was true agression why didnt he carry on.wondering wether it was just all too much and he got too excited.this is just a theory but could this kind of behaviour possibly be avoided by pairing earlier in the year before the so called "mating season" starts or will they mate on indroduction whatever the time of year???


That's a good theory. I replicate the rainy season to trigger breeding as I wanted all my females cycling at the same time ideally. Because Tokays pretty much mate any time of the year I wanted to make the extra effort to replicate beeding season. All my females came from different homes so are cycling at different times which can be frustrating. Next year I may try pairing up during the "rainy season" and keeping them together for a month or two.


----------



## blizard87 (May 9, 2011)

well theres not much you can do now apart from let her heal up....will you try this pairing again or put it down as an incompatible pair?


----------



## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

nasty .poor girlie .Glad the vet did a great job for her (and you of course) 
she will probs have a white scar left when the wound heals .


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

blizard87 said:


> well theres not much you can do now apart from let her heal up....will you try this pairing again or put it down as an incompatible pair?


As far as I'm concerned this pair is incompatible now and won't be paired up again. The male will still be bred though but I will be keeping a much closer eye on him. I will only leave him with a female while I am watching and split them when I'm not. he got on fine with the other female so I don't particularly think theres a problem with him individually.


suez said:


> nasty .poor girlie .Glad the vet did a great job for her (and you of course)
> she will probs have a white scar left when the wound heals .


Soon find out I hope! I'm going to keep record of it as it heals.


----------



## kelsey7692 (Jul 28, 2010)

Aww poor little girl! I've posted a link to this thread on the Geckos Unlimited UK page for people who don't use the forum.

I know this might be a weird question, but will the area scar at all? I don't know much about reptile skin healing so thought it was worth asking.


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

I know it's a serious thread but the talk of flesh wounds and the thought of you trying to pick up the injured Tokay and getting attacked kept conjuring up images from Monty Python and the Holy Grail!


You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine! 


Oh, had enough, eh? 


(Hope the little girl heals soon, Tom).


----------



## fredsshed (Jan 16, 2012)

shit :gasp:


----------



## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh thats noting you should see what my missus does to me when were finished :lol2: 

On a more serious note. 

Shes a very tough little gecko :no1: 

I hope she has no further complications from this and it heals perfectly


----------



## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

*and there was me miffed......*

*Oh my Tom :gasp: and there was me miffed with one of my lads for being way to rough with his lady, makes that look like foreplay. 
Heres hoping she heals up without issue, shame they couldn't use some of that 'spray on skin stuff' so it was fully sealed (I had this used when I fell on some rocks fossil hunting and cut my foot open bad, skinned a whole section just llike your girl, we were in a remote place, so saw to it there and then, they cleaned my foot, dried and then sprayed on this artificial skin, did the job a treat, don't suppose it's rep friendly though and bloody hell did it hurt, if there had been a roof I'd have gone through it) Keep us posted on her progress. 
It is weird how certain males and females just don't gel and stuff like this occurs, I've seen it with the leo's and I am curious as to what 'sets' them off as it were, from the initial mating show, all seems good, then wham! outright aggression, luckily I was watching my guys, so split before serious damage was done, but I don't doubt something similarly awful would have occured, had I not intervened, just bad luck it happened just after you had gone to bed.*


----------



## LizardAli (Jan 30, 2012)

*O..m..g..*

Thats awful.. watching that video made me really uncomfortable.. kinda feels like your spying on something you shouldnt see! I hope she makes a full and swift recovery and I think I'll stick to my bearded dragons now! x


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

LizardAli said:


> Thats awful.. watching that video made me really uncomfortable.. kinda feels like your spying on something you shouldnt see! I hope she makes a full and swift recovery and I think I'll stick to my bearded dragons now! x


That's not spying...THIS is spying!!

video | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


----------



## simon31uk (Jan 6, 2012)

after watching that vid u posted
you probably would have still had some sort of injury to the female Tokay. as the males lunge was like superfast. you'd have provably got bitten too seperating them

hope she gets well and keep ud all posted with update pics of how she healing

would be interesting to see


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

kelsey7692 said:


> Aww poor little girl! I've posted a link to this thread on the Geckos Unlimited UK page for people who don't use the forum.
> 
> I know this might be a weird question, but will the area scar at all? I don't know much about reptile skin healing so thought it was worth asking.


I don't know myself. From what I have heard, It should heal pretty normal but be a slightly lighter colour. I'm going to take pictures as it heals.


Jeffers3 said:


> I know it's a serious thread but the talk of flesh wounds and the thought of you trying to pick up the injured Tokay and getting attacked kept conjuring up images from Monty Python and the Holy Grail!
> 
> 
> You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine!
> ...


haha. We are no longer the knights who say "NI" we are now the nights who say....."TO-KAY!" and we demand.......SOME FINGERS!


fredsshed said:


> shit :gasp:


Indeed.


ShaneLuvsMonitors said:


> Oh thats noting you should see what my missus does to me when were finished :lol2:
> 
> On a more serious note.
> 
> ...


lol. I'm fairly confident it will heal up shortly. Keeping my busy in the mean time though!


loonymoony said:


> *Oh my Tom :gasp: and there was me miffed with one of my lads for being way to rough with his lady, makes that look like foreplay.
> Heres hoping she heals up without issue, shame they couldn't use some of that 'spray on skin stuff' so it was fully sealed (I had this used when I fell on some rocks fossil hunting and cut my foot open bad, skinned a whole section just llike your girl, we were in a remote place, so saw to it there and then, they cleaned my foot, dried and then sprayed on this artificial skin, did the job a treat, don't suppose it's rep friendly though and bloody hell did it hurt, if there had been a roof I'd have gone through it) Keep us posted on her progress.
> It is weird how certain males and females just don't gel and stuff like this occurs, I've seen it with the leo's and I am curious as to what 'sets' them off as it were, from the initial mating show, all seems good, then wham! outright aggression, luckily I was watching my guys, so split before serious damage was done, but I don't doubt something similarly awful would have occured, had I not intervened, just bad luck it happened just after you had gone to bed.*


Aye it's a shame as I went to bed early. Not much I can do now though but keep her clean and wait!


simon31uk said:


> after watching that vid u posted
> you probably would have still had some sort of injury to the female Tokay. as the males lunge was like superfast. you'd have provably got bitten too seperating them
> 
> hope she gets well and keep ud all posted with update pics of how she healing
> ...


Aye I think there would have been some injury but not nearly as bad. Feel very guilty about the whole thing.


----------



## Geckogirl_88 (Apr 24, 2009)

I had a similar situation a few years ago.
One of my boys got out and broke into my other male's tub.
Luckily I heard the scuffle from the other room and seperated them before too much damage was done.
One male was ok with just a few scratches, but the other had a wound similar to ur girl's.
It was much smaller but the skin had been torn back in the same way. 
Luckily the flap of skin was easy enough to put back in the right place, so wasn't left open for too long, and it was treated with tamoudine.

Hope your girl is ok, that's a nasty one xx


----------



## fiesta599 (Jun 11, 2009)

oouch
poor little thing.i hope she makes a full recovery and it hasnt effected her too much.ive heard tokays were hard core but shes hard as nails bless her.
im a wimp and im not going to watch the video
this is one of the main reasons my lizards are pets only as id be mortified if they got hurt whilst mating even though its natural behaviour for them.


----------



## stven1988 (Jul 6, 2011)

ian is the best vet round here by miles use him for all mine. infact iggys gong next week.


----------



## jambo1984 (Aug 1, 2010)

bloody hell mate he's a ruff one isn't he how about calling him jack the ripper...serious though hope she has a speedy recovery


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

Geckogirl_88 said:


> I had a similar situation a few years ago.
> One of my boys got out and broke into my other male's tub.
> Luckily I heard the scuffle from the other room and seperated them before too much damage was done.
> One male was ok with just a few scratches, but the other had a wound similar to ur girl's.
> ...


Cheers =]



fiesta599 said:


> oouch
> poor little thing.i hope she makes a full recovery and it hasnt effected her too much.ive heard tokays were hard core but shes hard as nails bless her.
> im a wimp and im not going to watch the video
> this is one of the main reasons my lizards are pets only as id be mortified if they got hurt whilst mating even though its natural behaviour for them.


Aye it is a downside with any breeding =(



stven1988 said:


> ian is the best vet round here by miles use him for all mine. infact iggys gong next week.


He gave a very good first impression. I'm glad he was recommended to me now as it's a lot closer than my previous vet!



jambo1984 said:


> bloody hell mate he's a ruff one isn't he how about calling him jack the ripper...serious though hope she has a speedy recovery


haha, that's a good name!


----------



## stven1988 (Jul 6, 2011)

i think hes good. where did you go before out of interest


----------



## sheena is a gecko (Apr 22, 2011)

Aw bless her. Even in the initial pics, with obviously such a nasty wound she doesn't look too fazed by it. Just goes to show how tough the little things really are. We paired our SS male and SHT female last weekend. Everything going well she sat nice and still, lifted her tail for him, no scuffles nothing. Then afterwards as they were separating she lunged and grabbed him under his chin and was shaking her head like a bull terrier on a tyre swing! We managed to split them with no damage done but like you say it can just come from nowhere. Fantastic thread idea to high light to some who think people are over exaggerating when they say real damage can be done :notworthy:

Would have loved to have seen the replies if you had posted asking what to do though :lol2: bit of savlon would heal that up no probs :whistling2:


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

To be perfectly honest Tombo. I think if you had tried to seperate them not only would you have gotten a nasty bite but I think it would have made things worse. 

I worked in kennels for a few years, and the last thing you ever want to do it to try grab hold of a dog and make it let go if its got hold of something. You have to simply wait it out or throw water on them. Pulling them apart stops the 'release' instinct and the one doing the biting usually just clamps down harder and you will cause tears as well as the existing bite.

That is one nasty bite, but its skin only and not deep tissue, Possibly have caused him to clamp down more and get into the deeper muscle under the skin, that would have been seriously dangerous for her I think.

Maybe keep a water pistol or something handy for future emergencies. Spray the male in the face and he is more likely to let go rather than hold on an tear.


(DO NOT ever throw water on mating dogs as the male pulling away can actually kill them through physical trauma to both, seen this happen with neighbours dogs and its 'common knowledge' that is how to get a male dog off a bitch if you don't want them breeding.)


----------



## Amazonia (Mar 6, 2011)

OMG, the poor thing. That looks so painful. Hope she heals quickly.


----------



## Higgt4 (Apr 25, 2009)

That was quite horrific to watch, hope she heals OK


----------



## spotz (May 10, 2009)

That is sooo scary - hope she recovers well:gasp:


----------



## JBR (Oct 1, 2006)

*Tokay bite*

Hi Tom,

You have a very impressive collection of Tokays :2thumb:

Thanks for sharing this. Hope the little girl makes a full recovery. 

I noticed you are washing/ bathing her in F10 everyday, that will help keep the wound sterile. Did your vet also give you any *F10 germicidal ointment* as well ? Its a wound cream specifically for all animal bites, burns and open wounds. It would really help that bite heal. You can PM or email me if you need more info.

PS. looking forward to see some baby Tokays you produce in the future.

cheers, John


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

JBR said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> You have a very impressive collection of Tokays :2thumb:
> 
> ...


Cheers John =] Thanks for the PM.


----------



## Fantom6 (Feb 16, 2012)

*Tokay attack*

Tom, how is your baby doing, can you post a pic of how the wound is healing? I put my Hurricane in with Thunder and he bit her pretty good but not as bad as yours thank god!! But as you said it happened after i quit monitoring them. Hope she is ok!!!


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

Fantom6 said:


> Tom, how is your baby doing, can you post a pic of how the wound is healing? I put my Hurricane in with Thunder and he bit her pretty good but not as bad as yours thank god!! But as you said it happened after i quit monitoring them. Hope she is ok!!!


Ello mate, thanks for asking and welcome to RFUK.

She's all good now thanks. I made a couple of update threads for "patches" showing how she's healed etc. I'll try and dig them out later as I'm on my phone at the moment! I found progress very slow while she was being kept in a more sterile environment. As soon as I kept her like I normally keep her I found she healed a lot quicker. My advice would be to keep her in a clean environment for a short period, all the time bathing to keep the wound clean and when it's looking less "raw", put her back in to a more natural set up and keep a close eye on her.

While she was displaying normal mating behaviour maybe it was misunderstood by me at the time. She may have been warning him off which in turn caused him to attack her as I have since tried to pair her up with several females which she has shown aggression towards. She was with the same male for a long time previous to me keeping her so I think she finds it difficult to get on with any others!

Do you have any pictures of yours?

All the best

Tom


----------



## Fantom6 (Feb 16, 2012)

*hi tom*

i find that amazing being together all this time and then he attacks her. My Thunder I just acquired and wanted Hurricane to mate with her and i don't know if its a first time getting laid or if he's always going to be like that. I don't know. But I want some toklings as Kristyn dion would say haha. I am so glad she is doing better and i'll post some pics , thanks Tom


----------



## xamydaviesx (Aug 21, 2011)

Hope she gets better soon


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Tombo46 said:


> Ello mate, thanks for asking and welcome to RFUK.
> 
> She's all good now thanks. I made a couple of update threads for "patches" showing how she's healed etc. I'll try and dig them out later as I'm on my phone at the moment! I found progress very slow while she was being kept in a more sterile environment. As soon as I kept her like I normally keep her I found she healed a lot quicker. My advice would be to keep her in a clean environment for a short period, all the time bathing to keep the wound clean and when it's looking less "raw", put her back in to a more natural set up and keep a close eye on her.
> 
> ...



Tombo have you had her anywhere near her original male since they split up. Have you ever tested the theory that they might pair bond at all? Would be interesting to see what she made of the original male now.


----------



## badboyboas (Feb 23, 2009)

omg poor lil thing


----------



## Tiigaan (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi Tom, have only just seen this thread, but I realise that it goes back quite a while, poor little poppet. I would have been distraught, looks like she was a complete honey about the whole thing though.

I too would be interested to see the healing photos and to see how a reptiles skin regrows.

On a completely different topic, were you the guy interviewed for Octobers PRK?
Interesting article either way.

Cxx


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

hope she ok but will be good if you can get pic as her heels be interested to see how the skin heels


----------



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

xamydaviesx said:


> Hope she gets better soon


She's all healed now : ) this thread is a bit old.


nicnet said:


> Tombo have you had her anywhere near her original male since they split up. Have you ever tested the theory that they might pair bond at all? Would be interesting to see what she made of the original male now.


Not yet but probably going to give it a shot next year.


Tiigaan said:


> Hi Tom, have only just seen this thread, but I realise that it goes back quite a while, poor little poppet. I would have been distraught, looks like she was a complete honey about the whole thing though.
> 
> I too would be interested to see the healing photos and to see how a reptiles skin regrows.
> 
> ...





bigd_1 said:


> hope she ok but will be good if you can get pic as her heels be interested to see how the skin heels


Here's a few update threads for her so you can see how it healed...

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/812455-update-thread-patches-tokay.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-pictures/822674-think-patches-trying-tell-me.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-pictures/890986-patches-update.html


----------



## Bigjim (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for the update.

So in evolutionary terms how can it be beneficial to injure your 'mate' within an inch of her life before she has your babies?


----------

