# Phoenix Worms passing undigested ?



## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

I thought getting some phoenix worms into my toads would be great, what with their extra calcium etc.

However...

Two toads, the biggest and most active 2, have both passed them out undigested. (Not that I usually go poking around in their poo but noticed one of em was moving a week or so ago so had to see WTH it was and have checked their poo ever since)
Fed one toad two phoenix worms this morning, and this afternoon he passed one whole and the other partly digested.

Anyone had this happen or know why it could be happening ??


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

sounds like they might be finding them a little rich.
most creatures find sudden changes in their diet unsettling to their stomache.
try feeding their normal staple diet and add in the occasional worm.
if this continues it may be that they are unsuitable for your toads or that your toads could have parasites.


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

When we were importing Phoenix Worms from the states I used a fair few with the amphibs & did notice a few would re-apear in the tanks now and then. However when we switched to breeding & using our own CalciGrubs I never noticed it at all.
My conclusion was that by the time the Phoenix Worms are potted, sat on a shelf for a while, shipped into the UK, sat on another shelf for a while and then finally used they become dehydrated and even when rehydrated by the suppliers instructions the relatively thick skins become too tough for the amphibs to digest them properly. With the CalciGrubs always being fresh they are properly hydrated and easier for the frogs to digest.


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## Dr. Phoenix (Mar 10, 2009)

Hello,

We are the producer of Phoenix Worms and joined this forum to be able to respond to your questions. Thanks for the opportunity.

The conclusion drawn by pollywog is not correct and frankly, we find it self-serving. Phoenix Worms never "sit on a shelf." Our worms are cupped fresh, shipped immediately via FedEx, and are delivered to our UK distributors within 2 days. We just shipped 4 cases yesterday and the cups are now in clearance at Stansted GB, according to online tracking at FedEx. Customers in the UK/EU will be able to purchase fresh PWs tomorrow. In fact, PWs are delivered faster to the UK than they are to California!

To answer REDDEV1L's question: Passing undigested PWs is an occurrence that happens occasionally. It's relatively rare but is seen more often in amphibians because they tend to not chew their food and they have very short digestive systems. Frog hobbyists and breeders tell us that they see this sometimes with other feeders. They suggest "pinning" the prey (pierce with a needle before serving) to allow digestive juices to easily penetrate which ensures complete digestion. 

Breeders tell us that they do not view this as a problem--they compare it to humans finding undigested kernels of corn in the toilet bowl. The many reports of enhanced growth and improved health indicates that animals being fed PWs benefit from the superior nutrition the worms provide.


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## hullreptilelover (Mar 4, 2006)

Could it also be that the amphibs have not been warm enough to digest these properly??? Just a thought guys, Ive never used P W myself but have found with any reptile/amphibian that if they are not heated correctly, then they can sometimes have digestion problems with other livefoods...


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