# Help I'm strruggling to get the temperature right in my bearded dragon vivarium



## AProut (Jun 5, 2013)

Hi I’ve recently bought a second hand vivarium with a bearded dragon however am struggling to get the temperature parameters right. I have the cool side of the vivarium set at 27°C and the hot side set at 37°C the set up did come with a heat rock however I never switch it on as I’ve read so much about how dangerous they can be. The issue I’m having is when I get up in the morning and come down to check on the dragons the temperature in my vivarium seems to be very high I’m talking 50-57°C by 9.30am which I can’t understand as the lights only come on at 9am.

I have a 100W day bulb on a constant timer from 9am-9pm and an additional 100W ceramic bulb plugged also on a timer plugged into my Habistat Dimming Thermostat which as I understand it is supposed to switch on automatically when the temperature in the vivarium drops below the temperature programmed into it. 

At the moment what I’m having to do is get up early to open the vivarium doors a little bit to let the heat out and then close them back up when it has dropped to an acceptable temperature which it then strangely sustains for the rest of the day. I am truly baffled.

If anyone can give me some advice as to why this is happening and how to fix it that would be great as I just want my bearded dragon to be happy and healthy and at the moment I doubt she is.

Any additional advice about temperature setting and control would be truly appreciated.


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Phew! Thats a lot of heat for one enclosure. First though, could you tell us what size the enclosure is? 

Normally for a basking light you can go with a lower wattage. Something in the range of 75 watts should be enough. Also, I dont know that I would bother with the ceramic at all right now. In the winter you could use it if your room temps get quite low at night, but otherwise the basking bulb should do enough to keep the ambients up where they need to be. You didnt mention anything about a UVB light source. Do you have that? They can put out some pretty good heat too, so that may be contributing to the effect.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

What time is your ceramic set to go on/off?

It may be worth fiddling around with your heating, leaving the ceramic off and using the dimming stat on your light instead.


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## AProut (Jun 5, 2013)

jarich said:


> Phew! Thats a lot of heat for one enclosure. First though, could you tell us what size the enclosure is?
> 
> Normally for a basking light you can go with a lower wattage. Something in the range of 75 watts should be enough. Also, I dont know that I would bother with the ceramic at all right now. In the winter you could use it if your room temps get quite low at night, but otherwise the basking bulb should do enough to keep the ambients up where they need to be. You didnt mention anything about a UVB light source. Do you have that? They can put out some pretty good heat too, so that may be contributing to the effect.


The vivarium is 4ft long and yes do have a UV light running the length of the vivarium which also comes on at 9am and switches of at 8.30pm. I try unplugging the ceramic bulb tonight and see if that helps, thanks for your advice.


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## AProut (Jun 5, 2013)

vgorst said:


> What time is your ceramic set to go on/off?
> 
> It may be worth fiddling around with your heating, leaving the ceramic off and using the dimming stat on your light instead.


The ceramic bulb is set to come on at 9am and stays on till 9pm. 
I will definitely try unplugging the ceramic bulb and when my partner gets back on Thursday we'll fiddle with the settings and hopefully that will resolve the problem.

Thank you for your advice.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

I think the problem may be that both heating elements come on at the same time, with only one on a thermostat. By the time the thermostat registers to shut the ceramic off, it's pretty warm and the heat light only adds to the temperature after that as it's not on a stat.... If that made any sense


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## Corfel (Apr 29, 2013)

In my 4ft Viv I have only a 75 W basking bulb + the UVB strip which both keep my Viv perfectly fine temperature

Probably just have too much going on in there


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Corfel said:


> In my 4ft Viv I have only a 75 W basking bulb + the UVB strip which both keep my Viv perfectly fine temperature
> 
> Probably just have too much going on in there


This is exactly the saem as mine and no issues either


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

First thing is you have far too much in the way of heat source. I would ditch the ceramic heater completely and reduce the strength of the bulb to a 75 watt or lower. Make sure the bulb is on the dimming stat. Place the probe of the stat towards the cool end of the viv. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the ambient warm and cool ends right but once done it should be pretty static. Just move the probe further to the cool end and fiddle with the stat to get the temps at both ends where you want them. 

*After* you have done that you sort out out the basking spot. You dont increase the output of the lamp or raise the stat to set the basking spot temp but adjust the height of the basking platform. Too warm lower it, too hot raise it up. Then you have cool end, warm end and basking temp spot set. Its how we did ours almost 5 years ago and we rarely need to adjust anything.


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## AProut (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> First thing is you have far too much in the way of heat source. I would ditch the ceramic heater completely and reduce the strength of the bulb to a 75 watt or lower. Make sure the bulb is on the dimming stat. Place the probe of the stat towards the cool end of the viv. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the ambient warm and cool ends right but once done it should be pretty static. Just move the probe further to the cool end and fiddle with the stat to get the temps at both ends where you want them.
> 
> *After* you have done that you sort out out the basking spot. You dont increase the output of the lamp or raise the stat to set the basking spot temp but adjust the height of the basking platform. Too warm lower it, too hot raise it up. Then you have cool end, warm end and basking temp spot set. Its how we did ours almost 5 years ago and we rarely need to adjust anything.


A big thank you to everyone for your advice I have unplugged the ceramic bulb and am going to see what the vivarium temperature is like in the morning with just the 100W bulb, If the tank is still too high I will purchase a lower wattage bulb the setup originally came with the 100W bulb so that's what I've been using.

Over the next couple of days I will try and probe around the vivarium as suggested to try and get the most accurate reading. In addition to this I will plug the bulb into the dimming thermostat to hopefully keep the temperature more consistent.

Many thanks, I'll let you know how things go.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

the problem you've had is that you've plugged a ceramic into a dimmer stat and then left the bulb running unstatted. So the ceramic isn't doing anything; the 100watt bulb is coming on and working away at full pelt and the dimmer is keeping the ceramic turned off.
If you removed the dimmer stat and ceramic, and replaced it with a carrot dangling down, your temperatures would be the same as they are now.

Like Mal says, get a lower wattage bulb and plug that into the thermostat, and ditch the ceramic. Even a 60watt bulb should do the trick (normal spotlight, pictures of lizards on boxes aren't needed)


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

Far, far, far, too much heat for the size of vivarium.

The important thing is to get the cool side preferably no higher than 80F (max 85F). The cool end is where you should ideally set the thermostat probe, set of course to 80F. You get the basking temp by experimenting with different wattage lamps and will depend on how far from the basking area your lamp is. Once the basking temp is correct the "warm side" temp will take care of itself.

I achieve all this with a single 60w spot on a dimmer stat (or 42w in the halogen scale) which makes the raised basking area spot on and the cool end rarely ever hits above 80F, even in the summer.


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

Agree with what everyone else has said, too much heat in the viv! You need the spot bulb on a dimming stat!

One thing i would add though is there are loads of different views on where to place the probe, some people say cool end, some people say hot end, i've got mine about a foot away from the bulb and this works for me (at the moment) i have had a nightmare trying to get the correct temps with the probe in different places.

The problem i found with setting the probe in the cool end was by the time the probe detected 80f in the cool end the basking spot was stupidly high around 127f(52c)/129f(53c). Where as with the probe placed appx a foot away from the bulb i have the basking spot from 110f(43c)/118f (47c)and my cool end is around 80f(26c)/82f(27c) (this is in a 6x2x2 viv)

One final thing to add is you will find when it all switches on in the morning the temps will go high to begin with whilst the stat regulates it self and the viv heats up. 

For instance mine went on at 7:30 this morning and within 45mins the basking spot was 123f(50c)/125f(51c) this then settles back down to 110f(43c)/118(47c)f although whilst is regulates itself my cool end never went above 85f

Hope that helps, hopefully im right in what ive said as im still learning myself! : victory:

Lewis


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

lewkini said:


> Agree with what everyone else has said, too much heat in the viv! You need the spot bulb on a dimming stat!
> 
> One thing i would add though is there are loads of different views on where to place the probe, some people say cool end, some people say hot end, i've got mine about a foot away from the bulb and this works for me (at the moment) i have had a nightmare trying to get the correct temps with the probe in different places.
> 
> ...


Thats about where my probe is, towards the back of the vivarium and about 1ft away as the crow flies from the actual basking spot. Works well in a 4ft viv too.


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

lewkini said:


> The problem i found with setting the probe in the cool end was by the time the probe detected 80f in the cool end the basking spot was stupidly high around 127f(52c)/129f(53c).


The important thing is for the cool end not to get too warm. It is more dangerous for a lizard to get too warm than not warm enough so it needs somewhere to go that can be guaranteed cool enough to enable thermoregulation. If the basking area gets too hot then the wattage of the heat source is too high. For example, if using a 100w drop it to 60w.


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

MCEE said:


> The important thing is for the cool end not to get too warm. It is more dangerous for a lizard to get too warm than not warm enough so it needs somewhere to go that can be guaranteed cool enough to enable thermoregulation. If the basking area gets too hot then the wattage of the heat source is too high. For example, if using a 100w drop it to 60w.



I get what your saying but then there are there are people that say if you set your basking temp the thermal gradient will automatically happen!

I never know who to listen to to be honest, its all so confusing especially for a beginner like me:blush:

Those temps were using a 50w lol

Lewis


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

lewkini said:


> I never know who to listen to to be honest, its all so confusing especially for a beginner like me:blush:


listen to all of it, think about it and work it out yourself. 
Everybody's viv is different and everybody's pet is different. If we all just stuck to the one script we'd never learn anything.

My simple rule of thermostats is: stick the probe wherever you have to, to get the right temperature.


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

Meko said:


> listen to all of it, think about it and work it out yourself.
> Everybody's viv is different and everybody's pet is different. If we all just stuck to the one script we'd never learn anything.
> 
> My simple rule of thermostats is: stick the probe wherever you have to, to get the right temperature.



Which i have now accomplished


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

lewkini said:


> I get what your saying but then there are there are people that say if you set your basking temp the thermal gradient will automatically happen!
> 
> I never know who to listen to to be honest, its all so confusing especially for a beginner like me:blush:
> 
> ...


Then, maybe, your basking area is too near the heatsource.

You cannot assume the CORRECT gradient will automatically happen. Every vivarium (unless it is a bare box) will have differing requirements. Again, it is ultra important that the cool part of the viv is cool enough for the lizard to thormoregulate. It is important that the lizard can bask at the correct temps, especially to digest food. The rest of the viv temps should then, indeed, take care of itself temp wise.

The correct wattage of heatsource for the correct basking temperature, combined with thermostatically controlled cool area, will give you the correct overall temperatures. However, you must also add into the equation the distance between the basking area and heat source. Too close and the wattage needed for correct basking temperatures may not be high enough to create enough temperature overall and the heatsource will be constantly ON. Too far away and the correct wattage required to obtain basking temperatures will make the cool end reach the maximum temp too quickly and the heatsource will be turned OFF more than ON. 

It can, indeed, be a juggling act.


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## lewkini (May 12, 2009)

MCEE said:


> Then, maybe, your basking area is too near the heatsource.
> 
> You cannot assume the CORRECT gradient will automatically happen. Every vivarium (unless it is a bare box) will have differing requirements. Again, it is ultra important that the cool part of the viv is cool enough for the lizard to thormoregulate. It is important that the lizard can bask at the correct temps, especially to digest food. The rest of the viv temps should then, indeed, take care of itself temp wise.
> 
> ...



I can see what your saying again :2thumb: but then look at this two experience people both with different views!

Where do i place the thermostat probe?

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/newbie-advice/124203-guide-thermostats.html

Lewis

EDIT: just read that hades agreed with live foods but set the temp lower lol!


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