# Crocodile is living in a bungalow in Kent



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Caesar the spectacled caiman crocodile, who lives with his owner in a converted bungalow in Kent, is one of dozens of alligators and crocodiles kept as licenced pets, according to a Sunday Telegraph study. 

Crocodile is living in a bungalow in Kent - Telegraph


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

Thats pretty cool


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## moodyblue1969 (Jul 6, 2009)

surely he has to keep it in a more secure *enclosure* than that. or is he legally allowed to let it roam free within his property?


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## louodge (Sep 26, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> Caesar the spectacled caiman crocodile, who lives with his owner in a converted bungalow in Kent, is one of dozens of alligators and crocodiles kept as licenced pets, according to a Sunday Telegraph study.
> 
> Crocodile is living in a bungalow in Kent - Telegraph


 
An Interesting read Chris.


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## Skorps (Nov 23, 2009)

But no Moose...

A Very interesting article and Im actually surprised that there are not more snakes!

(but then I dont hold a DWA)

xXx


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

Skorps said:


> But no Moose...
> 
> A Very interesting article and Im actually surprised that there are not more snakes!
> 
> ...



Thats a good point I was expecting there to be more snakes, maybe there are more dreamers on the dwa forum than I thought lol


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm personally surprised at how *few* Gilas are listed.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

good read altho i thought racoons are not on the dwal


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

I think the numbers on snakes are a bit off "9 monocled cobras and 19 WDB"


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont know where they pulled their venomous snake statistics from but they seem pretty vague to me.

The article as a whole isnt too bad, the RSPCA sticking their noses in with the usual crap, and the guy with the croc I thought his comments about getting bitten loads when it was younger and laying its head on his lap were a bit weird but it takes all sorts I guess.:whistling2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> Caesar the spectacled caiman crocodile, who lives with his owner in a converted bungalow in Kent, is one of dozens of alligators and crocodiles kept as licenced pets, according to a Sunday Telegraph study.
> 
> Crocodile is living in a bungalow in Kent - Telegraph


I was interviewed for the article but thankfully havent been mentioned!


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

slippery42 said:


> I was interviewed for the article but thankfully havent been mentioned!


I hope you didn't mind me passing them your contact details G, but I couldn't think of anyone better informed about DWA. I would have asked you first but there wasn't time and I expected you just to tell em to go jump if you didn't want to share.

HMHB


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

9 monacled cobras????? i know people who have more than 9 themselves lol and the rattlesnakes aswel, i own 5 so that means there are only 14 other wdb in collections??


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

50%man50%biscuit said:


> I hope you didn't mind me passing them your contact details G, but I couldn't think of anyone better informed about DWA. I would have asked you first but there wasn't time and I expected you just to tell em to go jump if you didn't want to share.
> 
> HMHB


No problem buddie, I didnt quite tell him to go jump but as you'll have seen he didnt use anything I said, which sort of shows you where he was coming from!

No harm done and in a way its a real shame as the reporter had the opportunity to do a real balanced article but has lost this for good!

The fact that both forums and LA's are crossed referenced should be a lesson to everyone that we post of open forums and everyone IS looking at us, whether it is be those interested in DWA or the Tax officials looking at what "private" breeders are selling!

Keep in touch buddie, I'll need to come see you this year, long time no shared beers!


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

I gave him my personal take on the DWA situation, and I could tell he was looking for sensationalism rather than balanced facts. I referred him to you as I felt you might have more impact. 

I'm hoping to go to the meeting at the end of January, will you be there?

HM


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Just read the article. Looks like scare mongering to me. Nice looking Caiman by the way.


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## cmullins (Feb 20, 2008)

the figures at the bottom are wrong, i know someone who owns two red pandas, stupid telegraph


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

cmullins said:


> the figures at the bottom are wrong, i know someone who owns two red pandas, stupid telegraph


I find it very hard to believe that a newspaper could get thier figures wrong :whistling2:.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

They said 120 LA's have issued licenses. What I suspect is that only 120 of the 350 have ADMITTED to issuing licenses. That would leave potentially 230 LA's that aren't saying either way. I could be wrong, hell it's happened before, but I reckon that's where the discrepancies regarding numbers comes from.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The data was obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, all Local Authorities in England [not Scotland or Wales] were required to provide information if they issued DWAA licences, if so for what species. Of the 300 or so LA’s in England, 122 responded. Whilst this snap shot is not definitive, it is likely to be reasonably accurate as authorities are under a legal obligation to respond. The results are quite interesting….


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

indeed....

...remind us again how many DWA species are imported each year Chris?

...I take it this is adding weight the the percentage of non-compliance to the DWAL of private keepers?


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

bothrops said:


> indeed....
> 
> ...remind us again how many DWA species are imported each year Chris?
> 
> ...I take it this is adding weight the the percentage of non-compliance to the DWAL of private keepers?


To give a definitive answer to that is virtually impossible, that said we know that up to 300 caiman are/have been imported in a year. Certainly several hundred venomous snakes are imported, and large numbers of DWAA scheduled scorpions. Also numbers of Latrodectus [black widows] although interestingly none appear to be licensed! How many DWA scheduled species are brought back each year from Hamm for example!!

As for the issue of non-compliance, well that is a done issue, we all know non-compliance is high, the only question now is what can be done to generate compliance – or should the Act be scraped! Personally I believe that the Act is fundamentally a good Act and I would rather see efforts made to make the Act workable. 

As is often said since the Act was introduced in 1976 there has not been a death or serious injury to a member of the public by A DWAA scheduled species. That said, over the last 100 years there has not been a death or serious injury to a member of the public by an attack from a non-native reptile, not certain about taxa, but I have found no records for them either. So is the Act justified!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> To give a definitive answer to that is virtually impossible, that said we know that up to 300 caiman are/have been imported in a year. Certainly several hundred venomous snakes are imported, and large numbers of DWAA scheduled scorpions. Also numbers of Latrodectus [black widows] although interestingly none appear to be licensed! How many DWA scheduled species are brought back each year from Hamm for example!!
> 
> As for the issue of non-compliance, well that is a done issue, we all know non-compliance is high, the only question now is what can be done to generate compliance – or should the Act be scraped! Personally I believe that the Act is fundamentally a good Act and I would rather see efforts made to make the Act workable.
> 
> As is often said since the Act was introduced in 1976 there has not been a death or serious injury to a member of the public by A DWAA scheduled species. That said, over the last 100 years there has not been a death or serious injury to a member of the public by an attack from a non-native reptile, not certain about taxa, but I have found no records for them either. So is the Act justified!


Sorry Chris I fail to see any evidence for the claim that non compliance with the DWA Act is high.

I do believe there are a small number but if the evidence indicates that there are less than 100 actual licenced DWA keepers are we to believe there are simialr or higher numbers who do not comply?

Sorry cant see it my self.

I agree with other comments that the journalist has made certain errors and the fact that he appears to have rushed into publishing the article when a large number of local authorities have failed in their legal obligation to reply makes the figures utter bollocks.

Additionally when I spoke to him on the article he admitted that he had probably failed to ask 50 or so LA's for info!

Doh!

Its a real shame that someone cannot do this properly and get an accurate list.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> the only question now is what can be done to generate compliance?


Fair charges by the local LA and more strict punishment for those not abiding by the rules. Its not a difficult solution in theory but I believe it near impossible to implement. Prices are high in some local LA's to put people off applying in my opinion, but in turn that pushes more people underground. Not necessarily bad keepers, just ones that cant spend £1600 after already spending money making their hot room/shed acceptable. Its just another tax, not an application fee.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> The data was obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, all Local Authorities in England [not Scotland or Wales] were required to provide information if they issued DWAA licences, if so for what species. Of the 300 or so LA’s in England, 122 responded. Whilst this snap shot is not definitive, it is likely to be reasonably accurate as authorities are under a legal obligation to respond. The results are quite interesting….


Chris, 

I fail to see how you or anybody else can believe that the statement is anywhere near accurate – I myself along with a couple of friends exceed the amount of _N. kaouthia_ on the list, plus look how many LA’s actually replied! I think the best thing the RSPCA can continue doing, is spending their millions of pounds that they have robbed from old age pensioners, on advertisement for ‘Mr Fluffy & co’ that need re-homing.

Sorry, doesn’t wash with me.

Dave


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Sorry Chris I fail to see any evidence for the claim that non compliance with the DWA Act is high.
> 
> I do believe there are a small number but if the evidence indicates that there are less than 100 actual licenced DWA keepers are we to believe there are simialr or higher numbers who do not comply?
> 
> ...


The issue of weather this is or is not mass non-compliance with the DWAA is irrelevant and not worth wasting time debating, governments view is that there is and that is all that matters. The whole purpose of the DWAA review is to generate compliance. 

There is no central data base of species kept, which I think is unfortunate. Therefore we have to work from what is obtainable, this last survey is as accurate as it is likely to get. There are about 430 Local Authorities in England Scotland and Wales, each time such requests have been made about a third, as in this case, respond with positive results in respect of issuing DWA licences.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

hysteria_uk said:


> Fair charges by the local LA and more strict punishment for those not abiding by the rules. Its not a difficult solution in theory but I believe it near impossible to implement. Prices are high in some local LA's to put people off applying in my opinion, but in turn that pushes more people underground. Not necessarily bad keepers, just ones that cant spend £1600 after already spending money making their hot room/shed acceptable. Its just another tax, not an application fee.


Very good points.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> Chris,
> 
> I fail to see how you or anybody else can believe that the statement is anywhere near accurate – I myself along with a couple of friends exceed the amount of _N. kaouthia_ on the list, plus look how many LA’s actually replied! I think the best thing the RSPCA can continue doing, is spending their millions of pounds that they have robbed from old age pensioners, on advertisement for ‘Mr Fluffy & co’ that need re-homing.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you Local Authority was one of the ones not to respond! 

So how many DWAA animals are kept in your view!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Go on Dave pluck a figure out of the sky and put that down as likely to be true!:gasp:


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> Perhaps you Local Authority was one of the ones not to respond!
> 
> So how many DWAA animals are kept in your view!


Chris, I like how when most of the more hard-faced members in the past stand their ground and put you on your back foot, you respond in a more polite manor but when I pass comment in only a view I believe to be half reasonable you get all defensive. Now, why would I have any idea how many venomous snakes are being kept in the UK legally or illegally? I have no idea what so ever. I could count over 150 _N. kaouithia_ as an example in private collections though. In my opinion and only my opinion the ‘guesstimate’ from the LA’s is way off – don’t be offended, I’m not aiming any of that at you!

As for the RSPCA – I’m sure many would agree.

Any give me one reason why you think my LA wouldn’t have responded? I can’t think of one! This is an interesting topic, lets not turn it into a ‘RFUK bitch fight’.

Dave


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> The issue of weather this is or is not mass non-compliance with the DWAA is irrelevant and not worth wasting time debating, governments view is that there is and that is all that matters. The whole purpose of the DWAA review is to generate compliance.
> 
> There is no central data base of species kept, which I think is unfortunate. Therefore we have to work from what is obtainable, this last survey is as accurate as it is likely to get. There are about 430 Local Authorities in England Scotland and Wales, each time such requests have been made about a third, as in this case, respond with positive results in respect of issuing DWA licences.


1 Why is it irrelevant? 
2 Surely as the reporter was using the freedon of information act to obtain his information those LA's who fail to respond are legally bound to reply?


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Looking at the figures provided compared with the known number of animals imported the Government can only come to the conclusion that there is non compliance.

The DWAA is and has always been a mess, with LA's ill informed and some charging ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts.

Interestingly an arguement that you touched on earlier that often comes up amongst the current DWAA licence holders on this forum is the potential for disaster/injuries/deaths IF the DWAA was scraped. If the conclusion is that there is massive non comliance and no deaths or injuries have been recorded since 1976 by unlicenced keepers, then perhaps the DWAA should be revoked?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Caz said:


> Looking at the figures provided compared with the known number of animals imported the Government can only come to the conclusion that there is non compliance.


Thats a fair point but does not seem to take into account the reasonably high level of animals which die after being imported etc.

Those that are re-exported etc

Mind you thats probably an argument best avoided otherwise the fluffy brigade at the RSPCA will have more ammo (no pun there for those that know me)


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

Surely the best means of finding out the true number of venomous snakes kept in the UK would be to ask LSTM if they would be prepared to release results of the recent census they carried out on this very subject? Obviously no need for a breakdown of who owns these snakes or where they are, just what is in the UK. Then this could be compared to what each LA believes is living under their authority to find the true extent of underground keeping. Obviously this will be inperfect because not everybody will have responded to LSTM, and many LA are probably not fully up to date with what people are keeping but it is likely to be the best way to find out what is kept legally and illegally.

David.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

DavidR said:


> Surely the best means of finding out the true number of venomous snakes kept in the UK would be to ask LSTM if they would be prepared to release results of the recent census they carried out on this very subject? Obviously no need for a breakdown of who owns these snakes or where they are, just what is in the UK. Then this could be compared to what each LA believes is living under their authority to find the true extent of underground keeping. Obviously this will be inperfect because not everybody will have responded to LSTM, and many LA are probably not fully up to date with what people are keeping but it is likely to be the best way to find out what is kept legally and illegally.
> 
> David.


Good point David, but they wanted non-venomous animals included i.e red panders etc..., I guess LSTM would have given them a more accurate number of venomous though.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> Chris, I like how when most of the more hard-faced members in the past stand their ground and put you on your back foot, you respond in a more polite manor but when I pass comment in only a view I believe to be half reasonable you get all defensive. Now, why would I have any idea how many venomous snakes are being kept in the UK legally or illegally? I have no idea what so ever. I could count over 150 _N. kaouithia_ as an example in private collections though. In my opinion and only my opinion the ‘guesstimate’ from the LA’s is way off – don’t be offended, I’m not aiming any of that at you!
> 
> As for the RSPCA – I’m sure many would agree.
> 
> ...


Political correctness and politeness are not one of my better qualities! The point I maid was if you are saying that you hold, or know of more _N. kaouithia _that shown in the survey then it is possible that those LA’s didn’t respond to the request! 

The Freedom on Information Act is like most legislation, is not clear cut. A request can be made under FOI and Local Authorities have, if I remember correctly 21 days to respond. But there are circumstances where they can decline to disclose the information requested, further some just ignore it. If a LA fails to respond it is down to you to take matters further. As I said in total there are about 430 LA’s, it would be quite a task to force each and everyone one to respond. 

As regards the RSPCA, they would jump on any bandwagon that would restrict people keeping animals, that’s for sure. However, in this case they were not involved in the survey. I suspect they have done their own, and they would be more tenacious in getting the information from LA’s than anyone else would have the time or resources to do, unfortunately they would not share it with anyone else. 

Ideally I think it would be useful to know the numbers and species of venomous species kept so that medical provisions could be better know.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Just to throw another iron in the fire, what about the incompetant LA licencing offices, such as mine, that seem to believe that you only need a licence if you are breeding or opening a petshop? How many keepers have had that confirmed in writing by the LA (as mine were fully prepared to do!) and just gone ahead with their purchase? The animals would be invisible when it came to the LAs' lists of DWAA species.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> 1 Why is it irrelevant?
> 2 Surely as the reporter was using the freedon of information act to obtain his information those LA's who fail to respond are legally bound to reply?


Academically it would be very interesting to know the actual level of non-compliance, but by its very nature that would be impossible to know. All available evidence is that it is very high; people can agree or disagree as they wish.

With regards to the Freedom of Information Act – see my response above.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Paulusworm said:


> Just to throw another iron in the fire, what about the incompetant LA licencing offices, such as mine, that seem to believe that you only need a licence if you are breeding or opening a petshop? How many keepers have had that confirmed in writing by the LA (as mine were fully prepared to do!) and just gone ahead with their purchase? The animals would be invisible when it came to the LAs' lists of DWAA species.


That is a very interesting point and what I have a greater interest in. It is my view that largely non-compliance is generated because of incompetent Local Authorities who fail to administer the Act reasonably.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> That is a very interesting point and what I have a greater interest in. It is my view that largely non-compliance is generated because of incompetent Local Authorities who fail to administer the Act reasonably.


Further to my post above, I agree with what you've just typed.

I made an enquiry when I moved to find out prices for a past survey. My simple phone call to the EHO's (I was initially told that they didn't issue DWAA licences..) prompted 6 people to phone me from separate departments within a day!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Caz said:


> Further to my post above, I agree with what you've just typed.
> 
> I made an enquiry when I moved to find out prices for a past survey. My simple phone call to the EHO's (I was initially told that they didn't issue DWAA licences..) prompted 6 people to phone me from separate departments within a day!


This is a very common situation, and one of the main factors for non-compliance. I have even know Councils to go to Court and stand up and say “we never have issued a DWA licence and we never will” In fact that was the Local Authority which now issue the licence for the caiman in the article, but it took nearly five years to force them to issue it!


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Caz said:


> Further to my post above, I agree with what you've just typed.
> 
> I made an enquiry when I moved to find out prices for a past survey. My simple phone call to the EHO's (I was initially told that they didn't issue DWAA licences..) prompted 6 people to phone me from separate departments within a day!


I was passed from pillar to post and back again with my enquiry. The first person I spoke to asked where I was planning on opening my pub, the second was asking me where the pet shop would be located but, by far the best one was, what species I would be keeping at the new zoo. I'm contemplating sending them a copy of Gray's Anatomy so that they can figure out which is the elbow and which is the .........:whistling2:. I only found the price for the licence (Portsmouth is £173) through searching on the net and my local rep store were kind enough to point me in the direction of the vet who does the inspections in this area. The LA were hopeless.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

pythondave82 said:


> Chris,
> 
> I fail to see how you or anybody else can believe that the statement is anywhere near accurate – I myself along with a couple of friends exceed the amount of _N. kaouthia_ on the list, plus look how many LA’s actually replied! I think the best thing the RSPCA can continue doing, is spending their millions of pounds that they have robbed from old age pensioners, on advertisement for ‘Mr Fluffy & co’ that need re-homing.
> 
> ...


Well said Dave, I really do fail to see how someone can keep going on like they're in charge of the whole of the reptile keeping community and give out statements that can't be accurate or substaciated. Also living on the fact that they're the chairman of some federation that as far as I can see dosn't even exist or if it does it wont tell us on an open forum anything about itself i.e- like who its commity members are? or how they're funded?
THEY DONT EVEN HAVE A WEBSITE. 
Why is this federation trying to muscle in on everything to do with reptile keeping whether it's to do with DWA or not. 
I see the 300 caimans came back into it although that was from over 10 years ago it's been used again to sound like it was last week,obviously to make us look bad.
I'm sure this will get ignored again like most of my other post's have,
when iv'e tried to pick out fault's with what's been said from these people before!!!.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

This is probably a silly question but why do the LA's have to be involved? My understanding is that the licence is granted by fulfilling the criteria laid out in an act of parliament to the satisfaction of an experienced vet appointed by DEFRA. What part of that is directly controlled by a LA? None or are they just wanting to stick their oar in and make some money out of us? Sorry for getting on my soapbox a bit just then but I just don't get why LA's need to be involved in the first place. I mean it's not like you go to your LA office to get your driving licence, passport, etc. Why should DWALs be any different.

p.s. What federation do you mean Jabba? Have I missed something?


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Paulusworm said:


> p.s. What federation do you mean Jabba? Have I missed something?


FBH - Federation of British Herpetologists, We know who the chairman is but know nothing about anyone else thats in it or how it's run funded ect, and these are the people that say there sticking up for are hobby but instead there trying to run our hobby


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Jabba the mentor said:


> FBH - Federation of British Herpetologists, We know who the chairman is but know nothing about anyone else thats in it or how it's run funded ect, and these are the people that say there sticking up for are hobby but instead there trying to run our hobby


Never heard of 'em.


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## jonodrama (May 7, 2009)

Did anyone see the report the other week in the Star(ok, maybe not watertight!) about the amount of exotics (no DWA)and rare breed farm animals kept in prisons??
included beardies, rare breed pigs, falcons and owls.
that was from the freedom of info act.


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## *Mac (Dec 28, 2008)

One more thing...

_"Caesar, who is four years old, is already 4.5ft in length, although his species can live for* up to 40 years *and reach 7ft. _
_ Mr Weller, *63*, bought him in *2007,* as a-one-year-old, when he was only 1ft long. He has spent around £20,000 converting the loft and turning the dining room and conservatory of his home in Strood, Kent, into a habitat for the crocodile, with a special pool fitted."_


So, um, what happens when he carks it?


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

*Mac said:


> One more thing...
> 
> _"Caesar, who is four years old, is already 4.5ft in length, although his species can live for* up to 40 years *and reach 7ft. _
> _Mr Weller, *63*, bought him in *2007,* as a-one-year-old, when he was only 1ft long. He has spent around £20,000 converting the loft and turning the dining room and conservatory of his home in Strood, Kent, into a habitat for the crocodile, with a special pool fitted."_
> ...


I'll have it!!!!!!! Sorry. That just kind of blurted out :blush:.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

Caz said:


> Looking at the figures provided compared with the known number of animals imported the Government can only come to the conclusion that there is non compliance.
> 
> The DWAA is and has always been a mess, with LA's ill informed and some charging ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts.
> 
> Interestingly an arguement that you touched on earlier that often comes up amongst the current DWAA licence holders on this forum is the potential for disaster/injuries/deaths IF the DWAA was scraped. If the conclusion is that there is massive non comliance and no deaths or injuries have been recorded since 1976 by unlicenced keepers, then perhaps the DWAA should be revoked?


i think by looking at some of the idiots who have been posting on her recently we can draw a pretty scary conclusion as to what could happen if the dwaa was revoked!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

paulrimmer69 said:


> i think by looking at some of the idiots who have been posting on her recently we can draw a pretty scary conclusion as to what could happen if the dwaa was revoked!


Agreed…..


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

paulrimmer69 said:


> i think by looking at some of the idiots who have been posting on her recently we can draw a pretty scary conclusion as to what could happen if the dwaa was revoked!


Problem is I think at least one of them has a DWAAL!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Caz said:


> Problem is I think at least one of them has a DWAAL!


 who?????????:gasp:


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## jonodrama (May 7, 2009)

The guy with the Croc in the telegraph report looks alot like John "canoe man" Darwin


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

no matter what the law is your always going to get non compliance, luckily enough i wud imagine 99.9% of the population wudnt even go near a venomous snake never mind own one but getting rid of the dwaa would be a disaster waiting to happen


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

paulrimmer69 said:


> no matter what the law is your always going to get non compliance, luckily enough i wud imagine 99.9% of the population wudnt even go near a venomous snake never mind own one* but getting rid of the dwaa would be a disaster waiting to happen*


I don't get this statement. Why?
There are very few 'disasters' in Countries that don't have a DWAAL or similar. Why would the UK be any different?
IMHO it's just another example of a money making 'nanny state' law.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

Caz said:


> I don't get this statement. Why?
> There are very few 'disasters' in Countries that don't have a DWAAL or similar. Why would the UK be any different?
> IMHO it's just another example of a money making 'nanny state' law.


because were not just talking about venomous snakes here, any of the animals on the dwa list including the big cats could be legally kept by people who think its "cool", look at the story of christian the lion, lovely story with a happy ending but at the same time he was kept in a flat and allowed to run around freely in a churchyard, just think what COULD have happened if that lion had turned on either the owners or passers by? in your statement you say there are "very few" incidents involving animals that are dwa listed well to my knowledge in britain there havent been any! surely if one incident is stopped by having a dwaa then its worth it? granted the whole system needs overhauling and standardising but to even suggest getting rid of it is daft in my opinion


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Caz said:


> I don't get this statement. Why?
> There are *very few* 'disasters' in Countries that don't have a DWAAL or similar. Why would the UK be any different?
> IMHO it's just another example of a money making 'nanny state' law.


 As you state there are *very few "DISASTER" *BY by which i take it you mean people being hurt or even killed by DWA?
But here we have a licencing law and we have had *NO *"disasters" proving to a degree that the system does work surely.
If you get rid of this system then this will mean that every Tom Dick and Viperlover could then get hold ov deadly snakes meaning that people with little or no experience would be *legaly* able to obtain venomous snakes *this is where the disaster would begine,* because the people who then keep them the correct way will then come under scrutiny than the next thing they will ban them completely and that could be slippery slope from there for the rest of the herp keepers.
Now before anyone starts by saying "well noone was killed before the DWAA was introduced" i agree we didnt and since its introduction we havnt but think about it in 1976 the only people that would have kept Venomous snakes would have been dedicated herpers who had proberbly studied them for years also the availability would have been very poor.
I have had a break of around 8 years from keeping reptiles and venomouse snakes and the snakes i only dreamed of keeping 8 years ago are 10 a penny now, availability and access to purchasing venomous snakes now is far easyer than it ever was. 
what my point it due to the fact we have a DWAA licencing system in this country you need to know what you are doing to get one and for these that dont have one due to idiotic LA's you will proberbly find they have similar setups to those that do and are proberbly just as knowledgable and skillfull at keeping and handling there snakes than a licanced keeper, and they need to be due to the fact that they dont want to be bit or have one escape which means there is then a possibility they may be court and prosecuted....etc...etc. so even though the act is there it also means that to a degree the unlicenced keepers comply to some sort of ruling. If this wasnt there you would have some bloke who think hes a bit of a geeza keeping a cobra in his front room to show off to all his mates *THEN *you will see people being hurt or worse.
*KEEP THE DWAA INPLACE!!!!!! LA's should not use it as a way of making a few sheckles and not be alowed to refuse an application for any other reason than the applicant is not suitable for safety reasons*


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> As you state there are *very few "DISASTER" *BY by which i take it you mean people being hurt or even killed by DWA?
> But here we have a licencing law and we have had *NO *"disasters" proving to a degree that the system does work surely.
> If you get rid of this system then this will mean that every Tom Dick and Viperlover could then get hold ov deadly snakes meaning that people with little or no experience would be *legaly* able to obtain venomous snakes *this is where the disaster would begine,* because the people who then keep them the correct way will then come under scrutiny than the next thing they will ban them completely and that could be slippery slope from there for the rest of the herp keepers.
> Now before anyone starts by saying "well noone was killed before the DWAA was introduced" i agree we didnt and since its introduction we havnt but think about it in 1976 the only people that would have kept Venomous snakes would have been dedicated herpers who had proberbly studied them for years also the availability would have been very poor.
> ...


I agree. Some further training for the LA's is definately needed or a DEFRA licensing officer embedded within the LA to deal with it. Another option could be to remove the task of issuing licences from the city/district/borough councils and have a DEFRA officer embedded at county council level. Removing the licence altogether is just unthinkable. When we lived in our old council flat a few years back we had a neighbour who thought he knew everything about reps, had more money than sense and was a total moron. Basically a recipe for disaster which is currently being prevented by licensing.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

A very persuasive augment can be made for the repeal of the DWAA, that is beyond doubt. The question is should we? My personal opinion is we shouldn’t, the basis of the DWAA is a good one, what we need is to see the Act made workable. And that is the premise of the current review, to generate compliance both from keepers and, in my view more importantly Local Authorities. The Act has been abused to long by rouge LA’s, with the new guidance that will hopefully be issued shortly it will be much easier to bring bad councils to account.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Paulusworm said:


> I agree. Some further training for the LA's is definately needed or a DEFRA licensing officer embedded within the LA to deal with it. Another option could be to remove the task of issuing licences from the city/district/borough councils and have a DEFRA officer embedded at county council level. Removing the licence altogether is just unthinkable. When we lived in our old council flat a few years back we had a neighbour who thought he knew everything about reps, had more money than sense and was a total moron. Basically a recipe for disaster which is currently being prevented by licensing.


Exactly what Paul said. The only thing that should be removed is the opportunity for LA's to use this as a money making exercise.
By simply existing, the license means that those who wish to own a hot without the necessary paperwork have to show themselves to be competent to those willing to sell them "under the counter". This in itself is a regulatory measure.


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## MontyPython (Jan 3, 2008)

there is a dwa holder in northern ireland who keeps a tiger but there is no tigers listed in that article

:whistling2:


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

i thought NI did not have DWA act there


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## MontyPython (Jan 3, 2008)

xxstaggyxx said:


> i thought NI did not have DWA act there


 they have since the 28th of december 2006!

http://www.ni-environment.gov.uk/dangerouswildanimalsleaflet.pdf


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

ahh so what about the rest of irland


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## MontyPython (Jan 3, 2008)

xxstaggyxx said:


> ahh so what about the rest of irland


 a licence is needed for dogs only, not for any other animal.


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

MontyPython said:


> a licence is needed for dogs only, not for any other animal.


Cheers for the info i always thougth the who of irland did not have the DWA act learn somthing new evrey day


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

i think its the republic of ireland where they dont have it


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

MontyPython said:


> there is a dwa holder in northern ireland who keeps a tiger but there is no tigers listed in that article
> 
> :whistling2:


The article is England only!


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Well said Dave, I really do fail to see how someone can keep going on like they're in charge of the whole of the reptile keeping community and give out statements that can't be accurate or substaciated. Also living on the fact that they're the chairman of some federation that as far as I can see dosn't even exist or if it does it wont tell us on an open forum anything about itself i.e- like who its commity members are? or how they're funded?
> THEY DONT EVEN HAVE A WEBSITE.
> Why is this federation trying to muscle in on everything to do with reptile keeping whether it's to do with DWA or not.
> I see the 300 caimans came back into it although that was from over 10 years ago it's been used again to sound like it was last week,obviously to make us look bad.
> ...


Oh look so I was right come on people wake up


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Oh look so I was right come on people wake up


Good point will CN reply to your post?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Jabba the mentor said:


> THEY DONT EVEN HAVE A WEBSITE.


No?

Federation of British Herpetologists

Granted, there is a lot that they need to put on it...


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> Good point will CN reply to your post?


Which part of the post? 

Perhaps the information below will be of interest some:-

Mission Statement​The “*Mission Statement*” of the FBH is quite simple. It exists to promote and support the responsible keeping of reptiles & amphibians by individuals in the UK. Our “Aims & Objectives” are equally simple:
· To represent the legitimate interests of UK reptile keepers at national level.
· To oppose unwelcome regulation/ legislation.
· To manage a national information base of key facts/ issues/ statistics relating to reptile & amphibian keeping.
· To create & maintain a strong positive image for private reptile keeping.
Our Goals & Objectives​Our goals & objectives are as follows;

*Represent* the legitimate interests of herpetologists and herpetoculture in the UK, including breeders, importers and keepers.
*Promote* all aspects of education in herpetology and herpetoculture, and will organise awareness days and events to further the cause of herpetology. The FBH will encourage individual members and affiliated organisations and others to do the same.
*Create* a Code of Practice for all its members. All members will be expected to abide by the Code of Practice.
*Encourage* and promote captive breeding programmes of all species, but particularly those endangered in the wild. It will encourage the sharing of information and animals aimed at the conservation of such species. It will promote and encourage the sharing of husbandry and breeding information for the benefit of all herpetologists.
*Support* and encourage the legitimate trade in wild caught reptiles and amphibians, from sustainable schemes and reliable sources.
*Encourage* the collecting of information for statistical purposes and use of statistics to support the keeping of reptiles & amphibians and for the benefit of reptile & amphibian welfare.
*Defend* rigorously any member or member of an affiliated organisation against injustice and the illegal seizure of animals by any body, individual or organisation (1).
*Co-operate* wherever possible with NGOs, government bodies and other groups and individuals to further the interests of reptile and amphibian keeping and trading.
*Oppose* ill-conceived regulations and legislation that may impact on the legitimate and responsible trading and private keeping of reptiles and amphibians.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Paulusworm said:


> This is probably a silly question *but why do the LA's have to be involved? *My understanding is that the licence is granted by fulfilling the criteria laid out in an act of parliament to the satisfaction of an *experienced vet appointed by DEFRA*. *What part of that is directly controlled by a LA?* None or are they just wanting to stick their oar in and make some money out of us? Sorry for getting on my soapbox a bit just then but I just don't get why LA's need to be involved in the first place. I mean it's not like you go to your LA office to get your driving licence, passport, etc. Why should DWALs be any different.
> 
> p.s. What federation do you mean Jabba? Have I missed something?


For the highlighted parts - :
1. LA's have to be involved because under the DWAA they have the responsibility for issuing the licence and administering/enforcing the DWAA.
2. The vet is not appointed by DEFRA - the LA picks the vet. Ideally it should be a vet qualified and experienced in the type of animal applied for, so either an exotics or zoo vet, but there is no specific requirement for this. So this part is directly controlled by the LA. 
DEFRA have no part in the DWAA administration.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> Which part of the post?
> 
> Perhaps the information below will be of interest some:-
> 
> ...


Sorry but am I the only one that finds this a joke? any one could write that. The website is just some cheap thing just about anyone could knock up in a couple of hours. Still no sign anywhere to tell us who the commity are as far as I can see it's just a one man band and that doesn't make it anything.
They want us to donate money but what the hell for? Are you not making enough out of crickets anymore?


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

ian14 said:


> For the highlighted parts - :
> 1. LA's have to be involved because under the DWAA they have the responsibility for issuing the licence and administering/enforcing the DWAA.
> 2. The vet is not appointed by DEFRA - the LA picks the vet. Ideally it should be a vet qualified and experienced in the type of animal applied for, so either an exotics or zoo vet, but there is no specific requirement for this. So this part is directly controlled by the LA.
> DEFRA have no part in the DWAA administration.


Ah right. I misunderstood. It just seems that a vast majority of the problems encountered are due to poorly trained staff at the LA and extortionate fees set by some LA bodies.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> No?
> 
> Federation of British Herpetologists
> 
> Granted, there is a lot that they need to put on it...


Is my laptop going mental, are my painkillers making me hallucinate or is it the FBH site? I've just clicked on the Join bit and it's written in Greek.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Paulusworm said:


> Ah right. I misunderstood. It just seems that a vast majority of the problems encountered are due to poorly trained staff at the LA and extortionate fees set by some LA bodies.


This is the heart of the problem with the DWAA, and why a review is, allegdedly, due soon. There is nothing written into the Act to give a set list of requirements, or a set charge. It is meant to be a reasonable charge to recover the council's costs of processing the application.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Paulusworm said:


> Is my laptop going mental, are my painkillers making me hallucinate or is it the FBH site? I've just clicked on the Join bit and it's written in Greek.


Its not just that bit thats in Greek! Most of the options to click on are all in Greek when you open them. There is also a bizarre sub option of "Who is God" on one of them!!

Incidentally, the last time the FBH and membership came up, you couldn't join as an individual member, rather it was for affiliation by reptile groups around the UK.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> Its not just that bit thats in Greek! Most of the options to click on are all in Greek when you open them. There is also a bizarre sub option of "Who is God" on one of them!!
> 
> Incidentally, the last time the FBH and membership came up, you couldn't join as an individual member, rather it was for affiliation by reptile groups around the UK.


Its in English on my screen but why cant you join seems to be no way to do so?

How many current members?

How many "herpetologists" have joined and how many hobbyists?

Big difference!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is how the DWA reptile list appears...

There is much more to do if we are to save our hobby and/ or livelihood. We fully accept the need for proper legislation that seeks to protect the well being of reptiles & amphibians. Any changes, however, must be carefully thought through before Government imposes them upon ordinary individuals. The current “lottery” when it comes to local authorities issuing (or not) Pet Shop & Dangerous Wild Animals Act licences must come to an end. Equally inspecting authorities, whoever they may be, must have proper experience/ qualifications to do the job in hand. The activities on the very vocal animal rights groups need to be curtailed & these people exposed for what they are. We need to ensure that the average reptile or amphibian keeper is fully aware of the threats to their hobby, and enlist their support. It is critically important to be able to raise sufficient funds to enable our work to continue. *Complacency is no longer an option, witness the new attacks on Breeders Meetings this year. *We also need to work more closely with similar groups in mainland Europe & elsewhere.​


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

ian14 said:


> This is how the DWA reptile list appears...
> 
> 
> There is much more to do if we are to save our hobby and/ or livelihood. We fully accept the need for proper legislation that seeks to protect the well being of reptiles & amphibians. Any changes, however, must be carefully thought through before Government imposes them upon ordinary individuals. The current “lottery” when it comes to local authorities issuing (or not) Pet Shop & Dangerous Wild Animals Act licences must come to an end. Equally inspecting authorities, whoever they may be, must have proper experience/ qualifications to do the job in hand. The activities on the very vocal animal rights groups need to be curtailed & these people exposed for what they are. We need to ensure that the average reptile or amphibian keeper is fully aware of the threats to their hobby, and enlist their support. It is critically important to be able to raise sufficient funds to enable our work to continue. *Complacency is no longer an option, witness the new attacks on Breeders Meetings this year. *We also need to work more closely with similar groups in mainland Europe & elsewhere.​


Copy and paste it onto Notepad and it translates it for you : victory:.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Paulusworm said:


> Copy and paste it onto Notepad and it translates it for you : victory:.


Why don't they simply put it in English first?????!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Looks like someone used the wrong font face or used the "Symbol" font for something and didn't close it correctly so it wound up applying to the whole page.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Looks like someone used the wrong font face or used the "Symbol" font for something and didn't close it correctly so it wound up applying to the whole page.


Easily done. I did the same thing to my dissitation/final year honours project write up. Only meant to change an m to a mu symbol. I nearly had a heart attack when it happened :blush:.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Sorry but am I the only one that finds this a joke? any one could write that. The website is just some cheap thing just about anyone could knock up in a couple of hours. Still no sign anywhere to tell us who the commity are as far as I can see it's just a one man band and that doesn't make it anything.
> They want us to donate money but what the hell for? Are you not making enough out of crickets anymore?


Strong feelings...I wonder what has been done to you by the FBH or Chris that has led to such anger. It certainly seems a little odd to be so upset at someone trying to look out for our hobby (even if it is, as you believe, a one man army!) Surely all that anger could be channelled into something a little more constructive or at least against the 'other side' rather than a federation fighting for your right to keep your pets? (and that stands whether the FBH is a giant mutlinational organisiation full of thousands of experts or a six year old's school project....surely it doesn't matter about scale?)


Cheers

Andy


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Feeling like cview days again, jabba you really do come across like varanus did on that site! he had a real problem with the fbh and chris and came across exactly like you do on this site.

Hell we aint all going to agree all of the time, its called being human after all. Fact of the matter is we have seen so many caimen imported into the uk over the years that the dwa figures do show theres a non conpliance issue and with the total farce that dwa is in some areas and the amount of shady uk dealers as well as european shows its not hard to get dwa stuff.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> the amount of shady uk dealers as well as european shows its not hard to get dwa stuff.


shady dealers?

Like to elaborate?


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

The Eastern Herpetological Society is an affiliated member of the FBH. I think you'll find most Societies are.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> Feeling like cview days again, jabba you really do come across like varanus did on that site! he had a real problem with the fbh and chris and came across exactly like you do on this site.
> 
> Hell we aint all going to agree all of the time, its called being human after all. Fact of the matter is we have seen so many caimen imported into the uk over the years that the dwa figures do show theres a non conpliance issue and with the total farce that dwa is in some areas and the amount of shady uk dealers as well as european shows its not hard to get dwa stuff.


Cview days lol I was on that site but cant think for the life of me what my user name was. But it wasn't varanus or that other one who's name I can't remember.
I'm pretty much annoyed with the FBH as they have just cobbled up a rubbish website,the codes of practice for DWA's? how are they qualified to tell us that?, the chairman won't tell us on a public reptile site who there committee members are, or how they're funded. They want us to donate money but we have no clue as to where our money will be going. 
What happened to all the money from the crickets?


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Well if your not varnanus or his other user names im guessing its turtle or potto. 
Yes maybe chris could be a bit more open but the fact remains that with out his help and input many shows would not have gone ahead, laws would have been to tight and so on and so on.
So if you think chris is so wrong on the numbers of dwa and not doing a great job lets see what you can come up with?


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## oscar96 (Nov 7, 2009)

I didn't read all of the posts and i don't really care but as far as i know,you should just face it people - there probably isn't anything like FBH, lots of people heard about the chairman but what about rest of it? It looks to me like someone in my age (i'm 13) made a crappy website about something that don't even exist so if i was you then i would just stop going on this post because is pointless...


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

oscar96 said:


> I didn't read all of the posts and i don't really care but as far as i know,you should just face it people - there probably isn't anything like FBH, lots of people heard about the chairman but what about rest of it? It looks to me like someone in my age (i'm 13) made a crappy website about something that don't even exist so if i was you then i would just stop going on this post because is pointless...


Put it this way if it wasent for the work the fbh has done in the past the hobby would not be any where near as big today. As your young you wouldent know how things where going a few years back, shows where totaly stopped for starters. It is the work that chris and others within the fbh and its affiliated groups that helped see them come back. 

You say there probaly isent anything like the group, well the fact is the fbh is a real group! ask the likes of pras, erac, ihs, and so on for starters and do some googling on the animal welfare bill and those who had input into it as well as dwa reviews and so on. A few names come up a lot, chris and the fbh! Yes chris could do with being more public with the goings on at times but no ones perfect.

Infact do a serch on the recent erac show in brentwood, who helped to save this show? give you a clue it wasent jabba and those who side with him.

Yes they could be more open but sadly more can be achived by being under the radar so to speak. Theres a lot more behind all this and it seems some one has a real personal issue with chris so dont get sucked in to it all. The truth is out there if your willing to look for it.


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## oscar96 (Nov 7, 2009)

Well, but why don't they actually improve the website and all of this, it's not that hard to put some info on it, is it?


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> Put it this way if it wasent for the work the fbh has done in the past the hobby would not be any where near as big today. As your young you wouldent know how things where going a few years back, shows where totaly stopped for starters. It is the work that chris and others within the fbh and its affiliated groups that helped see them come back.
> 
> You say there probaly isent anything like the group, well the fact is the fbh is a real group! ask the likes of pras, erac, ihs, and so on for starters and do some googling on the animal welfare bill and those who had input into it as well as dwa reviews and so on. A few names come up a lot, chris and the fbh! Yes chris could do with being more public with the goings on at times but no ones perfect.
> 
> ...


 I just want to know who the FBH commitee are and what the money goes to that they want us to donate.
Don't tell me I'm the only one that want's to know this?


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

oscar96 said:


> Well, but why don't they actually improve the website and all of this, it's not that hard to put some info on it, is it?


They tend to work more with the other socitys and after the animal welfare bill was complete they did take a bit of a back seat. They did have a bloody good site and i would say it was a mistake to take it down. The new site is still in development but when it will be done i dont know.

I only replied as you seemed to claim they where like ghosts and ufos, beleaved in but possibly non exsistant. The fact is there out there and have worked there arsed of for all of us.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> They tend to work more with the other socitys and after the animal welfare bill was complete they did take a bit of a back seat. They did have a bloody good site and i would say it was a mistake to take it down. The new site is still in development but when it will be done i dont know.
> 
> I only replied as you seemed to claim they where like ghosts and ufos, beleaved in but possibly non exsistant. The fact is there out there and have worked there arsed of for all of us.


For all of us? thats some statement


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I knew Chris many many years ago and since I first met him he was extremely passionate about reptile keeping, and the right to keep reptiles.
I have to say that recently some posts and threads have descended into a slagging match.
On balance, I can though see Jabba's point which is "why the secrecy". For those of us who are paid members of societies affiliated to the FBH, part of our subscription fees go towards the club fee to the FBH. So, why then is it that Chris is the only public voice of this group? Surely there should be a committee, members of which should be nominated and voted for by herp club members, and the names of the committee published. After all, these clubs all pay an affiliation fee to the FBH.
The FBH is a great idea, and should be developed. Chris has done a lot of good but it has always been Chris using the name of the FBH. Perhaps it is time to reassess the FBH, be more open, and crucially bring others on board.


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## majik (Aug 23, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> What happened to all the money from the crickets?


Why did they mug crickets ? where did crickets get the money in the first place ?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

oscar96 said:


> Well, but why don't they actually improve the website and all of this, it's not that hard to put some info on it, is it?


Because if you have limited manpower and resources, and you've got two things that need doing:

1. Update the website for people like us to look at
2. Go to someone's house to be with them when an RSPCA inspector comes 'round to tell the inspector they don't have the *right* to come in without a warrant, or explain to someone why their local council is wrong about a hobby breeder needing a pet shop licence in words that can be passed back to the council, or speak to government agencies about reviews to the legislation that affects our hobby...

I know which *I* would rather have Chris and the rest of the FBH spend their time doing.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

I will be watching the website. Very interested in the FBH and the work that they do.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

oscar96 said:


> I didn't read all of the posts and i don't really care but as far as i know,you should just face it people - there probably isn't anything like FBH, lots of people heard about the chairman but what about rest of it? It looks to me like someone in my age (i'm 13) made a crappy website about something that don't even exist so if i was you then i would just stop going on this post because is pointless...


There was the fight against the stopping of reptile shows/meetings (which is still ongoing.)

You're young. You probably don't remember the RSPCA report that could have meant the END of reptile keeping in the UK as a hobby. 'Morbidity and Mortality in Private Husbandry of Reptiles.' 
It would have been taken as gospel if the FBH and a few others hadn't given their own time to debunk/correct it.

You may think the 'END' is rather dramatic. Trust me, it was close.




oscar96 said:


> Well, but why don't they actually improve the website and all of this, it's not that hard to put some info on it, is it?


They're busy, they're not of the age where website building comes easily :lol2:
Perhaps they would like a volunteer?


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> For all of us? thats some statement


Your a keeper right? so there for his worked has helped you as well!


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Caz said:


> Perhaps they would like a volunteer?


 
That's a really good point...

..instead of bitching about them on a public forum how about you step up and offer your time and energy into helping the cause. Maybe a bit of PR work as that seems to be your main issue. It's really easy to sit back and demand something is done to please your curiosity....it's a whole other ball game to get up off your bum and help....

..as Ssthisto said - They are clearly very stretched and maybe updating the website is a little lower down the priorities than stopping the anti propaganda that is threatening to destroy *our *(yep mine and YOURS) right to keep our animals.....

Yours

Andy


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

With regards to publicaly nameing the members of the committee, these people are working against fanatical animal rights organisations, we've all heard what the extremists in these AR groups are capable of so why should these people working for our hobby put themselves at risk by publishing their personal details on the Internet for all to see?


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

bothrops said:


> Maybe a bit of PR work.........


Do you think it might be worthwhile me liasing with Chris about the school visits I'm already doing? It's only my kids' schools but if it helps the cause.......


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

blood and guts said:


> Your a keeper right? so there for his worked has helped you as well!


I never said I was a keeper but if I am or not I think we all have the right to know who the commitee are and where our money is being spent? It looks to me that everyone is trying there best not to tell us which makes me think we are paying for jolly's.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

pollywog said:


> With regards to publicaly nameing the members of the committee, these people are working against fanatical animal rights organisations, we've all heard what the extremists in these AR groups are capable of so why should these people working for our hobby put themselves at risk by publishing their personal details on the Internet for all to see?


Personal details? what i.e 
Chris Newman - Chairman
Elvis Presley - secretary
ET - treasurer
Not that personal is it??


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> I never said I was a keeper but if I am or not I think we all have the right to know who the commitee are and where our money is being spent? It looks to me that everyone is trying there best not to tell us which makes me think we are paying for jolly's.


Doesn't sound like YOU are paying for anything?
I'm yet to see an FBH 'jolly.' :lol2:



Jabba the mentor said:


> Personal details? what i.e
> Chris Newman - Chairman
> Elvis Presley - secretary
> ET - treasurer
> Not that personal is it??


From a name, an address is easily found. (I know Elvis' straight away..)


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> I never said I was a keeper but if I am or not I think we all have the right to know who the commitee are and where our money is being spent? It looks to me that everyone is trying there best not to tell us which makes me think we are paying for jolly's.


So your just a trouble maker then? hmm you remember the cview days but with the add you have on dwa you cant be turtle and you clearly are in the hobby/trade so i guess chris has done somthing for you!


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

PART .



Jabba the mentor said:


> FBH - Federation of British Herpetologists, We know who the chairman is but know nothing about anyone else thats in it or how it's run funded ect, and these are the people that say there sticking up for are hobby but instead there trying to run our hobby


Now that's a downright lie for starters jabba. Bad little Boy. 



Jabba the mentor said:


> Sorry but am I the only one that finds this a joke? any one could write that. The website is just some cheap thing just about anyone could knock up in a couple of hours. Still no sign anywhere to tell us who the commity are as far as I can see it's just a one man band and that doesn't make it anything.
> 
> Again you are telling untruths.  Is this just the tip of the iceburg, I wonder???????????
> 
> They want us to donate money but what the hell for? Are you not making enough out of crickets anymore?


Now we can add spite to the above. Not good qualities in a person, so don't be surprised at the fact that I have no time for your crap stirring.

I will just pause to point out to others that the cricket comment goes a long way to proving that Jabba knows far more than he is letting on, but has this terrible throbbing nerve that forces him to come on here in an attempt to stir things up. 


Jabba when suffering as you are, you can help yourself here by letting go and trying to relax and unwind. If on the other hand you continue with this trend then you can expect to remain bitter and twisted up, and it gets more painful. It's up to you now. (I was going to say "Dear Boy", but you are a far cry from that. 



bothrops said:


> Strong feelings...I wonder what has been done to you by the FBH or Chris that has led to such anger. It certainly seems a little odd to be so upset at someone trying to look out for our hobby (even if it is, as you believe, a one man army!) Surely all that anger could be channelled into something a little more constructive or at least against the 'other side' rather than a federation fighting for your right to keep your pets? (and that stands whether the FBH is a giant mutlinational organisiation full of thousands of experts or a six year old's school project....surely it doesn't matter about scale?)
> 
> 
> Cheers
> ...


Well said Andy, and spot on too. 



Jabba the mentor said:


> Cview days lol I was on that site but cant think for the life of me what my user name was. But it wasn't varanus or that other one who's name I can't remember.
> 
> Just out of nappies then, but shame you have not developed further all this years later.
> 
> ...


That post is as pathetic as your attempts to discredit the FBH, so not worthy of any response. 



Jabba the mentor said:


> For all of us? thats some statement


Does your Brother know you are raising such a strong objection, or are you perhaps posting on his behalf seeing as he would be paying something towards the FBH fund with owning a reptile shop?



blood and guts said:


> So your just a trouble maker then? hmm you remember the cview days but with the add you have on dwa you cant be turtle and you clearly are in the hobby/trade so i guess chris has done somthing for you!


Now you are getting somewhere.  All correct accept for the last comment re Chris. I think maybe the opposite in fact, and that is why Jabba is so intent of pulling Chris to pieces. 


PART 2 BELOW.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

PART 2.

Jabba, how can you have the nerve to come on this forum to have a go at Chris???????????????????

You are the Guy who thought nothing of sending poor reptiles through the Royal Mail over and over, and then bragged about how your Solicitor got you off the 37 charges thanks to a loop hole in the Law. Those poor creatures that you got your hands on. I know of at least one that never made it, how many others????????????? Did you want the FBH to offer you advise maybe, but were turned down due to your abuse of those poor creatures. 

Maybe you are upset along with your brother because your big show could not go ahead because you did not belong to the FBH at the time???????? I could go on, but you really are not worth it. In fact you disgust me. 


One last thing Jabba before I sign off, I would have thought your memory would be better than mine taking both our ages into account, but anyway in order to give yours a jolt, here is some of the info you received during your last spat on here.

Maureen. 

 Natrix








Super Citizen








Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 919 









Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_Yeah so they say but who are they and what have they done? I dont get it I cant seem to find anything they have done? Do they have a website?_

Think of the A Team but older and not as good looking:lol2:
It's late and this is just off the top of my head but basically..........

The Federation of British Herpetologists was set up about 15 years ago to protect the reptile hobby from unwelcome attacks by Animal Rights groups (I include the RSPCA in this group). At the time the hobby had lost about fifteen regular shows and had seen a number of clubs fold after losing revenue from their annual show. It's active members are all voluntary and come from a mixture of clubs including the IHS and BHS.

Since being set up the FBH has defended and kept running the remaining shows. Helped other groups set up clubs and start their own shows. Given the hobby a voice at Government level especially during the recent Animal Welfare Bill and review of the DWAA, as well as defending the hobby against attempts by the RSPCA to get all sorts of silly bans put in place. 
The FBH also offers a source of information and advice for hobbyists, rescuers, clubs and societies experiencing problems with bureaucracy.
The FBH consists of one full time person (the Chairman you mention) who attends regular meetings with DEFRA and groups such as the police (PAW) and a group of volunteers dotted around the country who help and offer advice, back up and assistance where needed.
The FBH is not a club, it doesn’t do news letters or hold shows, it is the political voice for the hobby and as such is there for when it is needed. Without the FBH I suspect the hobby would look very different to how it does at the moment, if there was a hobby at all.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice Chairman
(just another one of those bods dotted around the country)



PART 3 BELOW.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

PART 3.









25-09-2009, 09:07 AM 
Natrix








Super Citizen








Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 919 









Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_But its still not clear who the FBH is? ?_

The FBH was set up by the hobby, to protect the hobby

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_Who are you all?_

Given that our extremist friends are always happy to pay anyone standing against them a visit, most of those involved prefer to remain in the back ground. Your first port of call if you need help is Chris Newman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_How is the FBH funded?_

Any costs incurred are covered by a small number of donations and the Society/club membership fees. The people involved work voluntarily. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_Its beginning to look like we have to do as the FBH says and yet I'm finding it really hard to find any real evidance that you have done anything to save the hobby?_

What is it that you feel the FBH has forced you to do? 
It is always hard to show the worth of the FBH but if it hadn't of been set up the only voice the Government would of heard durring the recent Animal Welfare Bill discussions would of been those of the Anti groups.
Without the FBH a great many, if not all the shows would of been cancelled years ago. 
I don't know what this hobby would of been like if the FBH hadn't been set up but my guess is things wouldn't of been to good. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but its beginning to look like to me that our hobby is being run by a group of funny hand shakers that cant actually prove who they are_

That's mostly to do with their age. There is medication available for the hand shakes and some of the older ones are allowed to wear name badges.:whistling2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jabba the mentor*  
_how there funded and what they have done to save the hobby?_

The FBH doesn't run the hobby but it does protect the hobby and the only people it should be causing problems for are the Animal Rights Extremists.

Are you having a problem with the FBH???????

Gordon
​


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

:lol2:
Nice work MC.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Caz said:


> :lol2:
> Nice work MC.


 
I agree, makes his posts and the reasons behind them a lot clearer now


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info Mo....

Jabba - it is clear you have some sort of seep seated vendetta against the FBH, possible due to something they did or didn't do to or for you in the past.

Your stirring in this thread and Mo's consequent input has shown you to be a bitter man who clearly needs to let something go! I recommend watching and interacting with the scaly legless things that the FBH have worked so hard to stop others taking away your right to keep:whistling2:.....that certainly calms me down!


Cheers

Andy


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Nice posts mo:2thumb:


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

great post Mo


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

The plot thickens :hmm:. Cheers for the info MC :no1:.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Thank for all that info Mo. Yes Jason is my brother and yes we have both been in trouble for doing things we probably shouldnt of in the past you should know that as you grassed Jason up didnt you?


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## lee-ellam (Oct 17, 2009)

Caz said:


> They're busy, they're not of the age where website building comes easily :lol2:
> Perhaps they would like a volunteer?


I know a web designer who'd work wonders (shameless self promotion :whistling2


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

lee-ellam said:


> I know a web designer who'd work wonders (shameless self promotion :whistling2


... and modest too :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Thank for all that info Mo. Yes Jason is my brother and yes we have both been in trouble for doing things we probably shouldnt of in the past you should know that as you grassed Jason up didnt you?


Really??????????????????????? I think not young Man. If I had, I would openly admit to it, but no, some one else did that. I took Jason to task via pm and directly on the phone yes, but Jason swore he would not ever do it again. I took him at his word on that occasion. I think you need to look to the people who were sent animals via the Royal Mail that either died, or did not ever turn up.

You don't have to take my word for it, but I am well known for being up front with people and not sneaking off behind backs to do things.

Please don't judge others by your own standards.

Maureen. 

PS By your very actions on here you are doing both yourself and your brothers reputation great damage, and in trying to run your vendetta against Chris Newman and the FBH, you are instead turning the tables on yourself, so better you vanish into the back ground and hope.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

All this has in my opinion gone beyond a joke

I dont not know who Jabba is and do not know who Maureen Collinson is and quite frankly dont care about either


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> All this has in my opinion gone beyond a joke
> 
> I dont not know who Jabba is and do not know who Maureen Collinson is and quite frankly dont care about either


What a completely pointless post! I happen to know Maureen relatively well (in an 'online' sense) and is she is a highly respected member of the herpetological community.

Jabba it would appear is someone who holds a proper grudge! Hopefully he will let it go sooon.

Your post is rude, unnecessary and pointless. If you are not interested in the subject of the thread...don't read it!


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

Yawn... such :censor:. I know Maureen from various PMs we have exchanged and she seems to be a respectable person. However, this is a DWA section, what on earth does any of this :censor: have to do with DWA? Not that I have read all of the cursing.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

some people need to open there minds a bit, all im saying for now..


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

snakekeeper said:


> Yawn... such :censor:. I know Maureen from various PMs we have exchanged and she seems to be a respectable person. However, this is a DWA section, what on earth does any of this :censor: have to do with DWA? Not that I have read all of the cursing.


 
This is what I will never understand about forums.....it's as if there are people stood over you making you log on, click DWA and then click this particular thread..they then make you read all the way through it and stop you from reading all the other threads on the boards.....so much so that you have to post to tell us how it has nothing to do with this or that....


..I'm not having a go by any means,,,I just wonder what makes people think that a thread going a little off topic (although technically FBH has everything to do with all herps _including_ venomous species) means that the other threads etc are somehow slowed down, diluted, disrupted or hindered by this one existing....?

If you are bored, uninterested or completely neutral, why bother telling us...just don't click on the 'if you click this you will read a thread you are not interested in' button.

.....unless of course you actually do have some interest or else you wouldn't be posting:whistling2:


JMHO

Cheers


Andy


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

*moderators take note*

:2thumb:i think the forum need a slagging off section:no1:


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

bothrops said:


> This is what I will never understand about forums.....it's as if there are people stood over you making you log on, click DWA and then click this particular thread..they then make you read all the way through it and stop you from reading all the other threads on the boards.....so much so that you have to post to tell us how it has nothing to do with this or that....
> 
> 
> ..I'm not having a go by any means,,,I just wonder what makes people think that a thread going a little off topic (although technically FBH has everything to do with all herps _including_ venomous species) means that the other threads etc are somehow slowed down, diluted, disrupted or hindered by this one existing....?
> ...


Well if that isn't having ago I don't know what would be  

Well my point is that I came on to read comments about this caiman kept in a room and had to read through a spat which had nought to do with it. Now regardless of whether I am bored of it or not I shouldn't have to read a slagging match between two individuals on a post which I have been trying to follow. Surely you as a mod. shouldn't encourage such arguments. By the way, I wasn't having a go or anything :whistling2:


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> All this has in my opinion gone beyond a joke
> 
> I dont not know who Jabba is and do not know who Maureen Collinson is and quite frankly dont care about either


 
Sorry but I do care a great deal about Mo and she has done loads for the hobby we all enjoy.

Can I suggest next time you decide to write about somebody you do your homework. 

Google is such a wonderful tool in the right hands.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Maureen Collinson said:


> Really??????????????????????? I think not young Man. If I had, I would openly admit to it, but no, some one else did that. I took Jason to task via pm and directly on the phone yes, but Jason swore he would not ever do it again. I took him at his word on that occasion. I think you need to look to the people who were sent animals via the Royal Mail that either died, or did not ever turn up.
> 
> You don't have to take my word for it, but I am well known for being up front with people and not sneaking off behind backs to do things.
> 
> ...


"Vanish into the back ground and hope" What's that supposed to mean Mo? 
Sorry but again I see you and a few others have suddenly jumped into stick up for the FBH which is of course your right to do so but it's still not answering who the commitee are or where the money goes? Ok let's forget the money then but who's on the commitee??


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Jabba the mentor said:


> "Vanish into the back ground and hope" What's that supposed to mean Mo?
> Sorry but again I see you and a few others have suddenly jumped into stick up for the FBH which is of course your right to do so but it's still not answering who the commitee are or where the money goes? Ok let's forget the money then but who's on the commitee??


Why is it so important for you to know?
I personally do not care who they are. If they are protecting the hobby I love and feel priviledged to be a part of then does it really matter?
The reasons for these people not revealing themselves are abundantly clear, and have been explained here in case you don't get it, so WHY do YOU need to know? What is your agenda?
You are repeating yourself ad nauseum. "where does the money go?" "What about the cricket money?"
Put your point across sensibly like an adult and perhaps you might be viewed as one.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

The fbh diddent help him and his brother as rightly so! all this is him just throughing his toys out of the pram. Bit like his slating of cold blooded a while back when it turned out he just diddent like one of there friends/employees!

Turns out old jabba is one of the shaddy types i rethered to earlyer, any one who uses royal mail post to send animals should be banned period!


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

blood and guts said:


> The fbh diddent help him and his brother as rightly so! all this is him just throughing his toys out of the pram. Bit like his slating of cold blooded a while back when it turned out he just diddent like one of there friends/employees!
> 
> Turns out old jabba is one of the shaddy types i rethered to earlyer, any one who uses royal mail post to send animals should be banned period!


Couldn't agree more. Even if royal mail are having a rare good day when post arrives within 24 hours, the parcels still pass through unheated sorting offices and are roughly handled.
Anyone who thinks this is an appropriate way to transport animals should be jailed.
I notice that this person is selling rattlers. Ergo they are a DWA holder. THAT, people, is what is wrong with the licensing system. If this person can convince an issuing body that they are a competant keeper, then there is very little hope for any of us if serious changes are not made soon.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

terciopelo_dave said:


> I notice that this person is selling rattlers. Ergo they are a DWA holder. THAT, people, is what is wrong with the licensing system. If this person can convince an issuing body that they are a competant keeper, then there is very little hope for any of us if serious changes are not made soon.


I would imagin there being advertised on behalf of his brother who holds a psl so also goes to show that psl also needs more changes. But yes totaly agree with your point on some keepers.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

blood and guts said:


> I would imagin there being advertised on behalf of his brother who holds a psl so also goes to show that psl also needs more changes. But yes totaly agree with your point on some keepers.


Whichever one of them is the guilty party (both I suspect), the RSPCA need little more ammo to close us down. These peope need to be stopped so the rest of us can prove our competancy and show the anti's that their concerns are unfounded.
Whilst people like jabba are involved with this hobby, sadly the groups trying to fight us will always have the higher ground.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Renfield said:


> Sorry but I do care a great deal about Mo and she has done loads for the hobby we all enjoy.
> 
> Can I suggest next time you decide to write about somebody you do your homework.
> 
> Google is such a wonderful tool in the right hands.


How the hell is that "writing about someone"?

Its a fact I do not know either and am not concerned about that fact!


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> All this has in my opinion gone beyond a joke
> 
> *I dont not know who Jabba is and do not know who Maureen Collinson is and quite frankly dont care about either*





Renfield said:


> Sorry but I do care a great deal about Mo and she has done loads for the hobby we all enjoy.
> 
> Can I suggest next time you decide to write about somebody you do your homework.
> 
> Google is such a wonderful tool in the right hands.





slippery42 said:


> How the hell is that "writing about someone"?
> 
> Its a fact I do not know either and am not concerned about that fact!


It was the *quite* *frankly dont care about either *in relation to Mo got my back up as Maureen really has helped the reptile community including the DWA community and she has done much more than most of us, including me.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

well renfield you have at least done something, by that i mean annoying proberbly 2 of the last ACTUAL DWAL Holders on this forum left enough to now stop posting on the forum.
i would also like to thank all the idiots who strangly are non dwal for ruining what 4 months ago was a half decent forum well done.
and Andy im afraid the (numpty/proper keeper) ratio is now is just too numpty heavy im out of here you lot can slag each other off and give each other gash advice all you want.
ADIOS AMIGOS
Lee


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

leecb0 said:


> well renfield you have at least done something, by that i mean annoying proberbly 2 of the last ACTUAL DWAL Holders on this forum left enough to now stop posting on the forum.
> i would also like to thank all the idiots who strangly are non dwal for ruining what 4 months ago was a half decent forum well done.
> and Andy im afraid the (numpty/proper keeper) ratio is now is just too numpty heavy im out of here you lot can slag each other off and give each other gash advice all you want.
> ADIOS AMIGOS
> Lee


See you on the other side Lee


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Have I picked the wrong time to join this section of RFUK or what? It seems that just about every section of this forum is going downhill rapidly. A real shame considering what a lot of us new-to-DWA keepers could learn from the experienced keepers who are being driven away.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Slippery and Lee,

Although I don't know either of you well, I have read enough posts by both of you to come to the conclusion that you are both sensible adults that also come across as very respectful, and I can even understand both of you, and others feeling upset by the way things are going here, but please bear with me as what I *do *fail to understand is why you have continued to allow Jabba to post over here attacking the very Man who is one of the front runners fighting for the hobby and your rights to continue keeping DWAA reptiles??????? 

This thread was started by Chris Newman, and was an insight into what he is involved in at present thus keeping the hobby informed, and what for I ask? other than to be constantly attacked by a Guy whom you all allowed to go on attacking without even a hint of an objection, now that I find strange. Surely you Guys knew that it would only be a matter of time before someone else felt the need to try to stop it all for the sake of the person, IE, Chris Newman just trying hard to do his job.

There was another very big thread a very short while ago and Jabba was allowed once again free rein without so much as a wisper of resentment, now surely that is not good unless you wanted to see Chris brought to task for some under laying reason??????? I don't believe that of you as I know you two will speak up and say, just as I do, but that is how it was coming across. 

Please both re-think your decisions as this is but one thread, and when it dies down, and you can tell Jabba to go and start his own personal thread away from here, you can all get back to how you were, and hopefully run a clean forum between you once more, and those of us that don't usually post here can continue to look up to you Guys and enjoy looking and reading what you have to show and say. 

Slippery, with regards to your off the cuff remark re Jabba and myself, it did come over as said by a very peeved person and because of that, I can fully understand Renfield rushing to my defence bless him. It seems emotions of the heart are ruling all of our heads at the moment, and so maybe time to stop and think. Tomorrow is a new dawn and one day less in all of our lives, and speaking as an oldie our time is gone before we know it, and there is much pain and strife out there in this world to be truly upset about, so a small thing like what is occuring here really should not have such a big impact. 

Please move on from it and stay put, and continue to give people, including us usually silent ones, (at least in the DWAA section LOL) the pleasure we have been accustomed to when we pop in here to look, see and wonder at. 

Peace to you Guys, and thank you to you Renfield and others that felt compelled to step in. I feel truly humbled by you all. :blush: 

Mo.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I will publically apoligise to both Leecbo, Slippery and the DWA forumites for intruding on the thread but as I not only know Mo and have been asked a while ago to go meet the person who owns this beast, I thought it was justified.

I'm sorry to all and I sincerely hope that you both continue on here.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Renfield said:


> I will publically apoligise to both Leecbo, Slippery and the DWA forumites for intruding on the thread but as I not only know Mo and have been asked a while ago to go meet the person who owns this beast, I thought it was justified.
> 
> I'm sorry to all and I sincerely hope that you both continue on here.


Speaking as a new DWA forumite there's no apology needed from what I've read. You and MC have brought something to light that I was previously oblivious too. I'd previously never heard of the FBH let alone the history regarding Jabba. Thank you both for having the balls (honorary pair for MC) to post it : victory:.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Lee and slippery im not sorry for my part in this thread, a bad dealer has been exposed and as a seller of dwa you should be glad people like this are outed for the greater good of the hobby.
Stick around guys, this is just one thread on a large section. If you dont like a thread avoid it, simples! every section and infact every forum will have bits we dont like, were only human after all.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Renfield said:


> I will publically apoligise to both Leecbo, Slippery and the DWA forumites for intruding on the thread but as I not only know Mo and have been asked a while ago to go meet the person who owns this beast, I thought it was justified.
> 
> I'm sorry to all and I sincerely hope that you both continue on here.


Apology accepted and for the record I'd confirm that I've nothing against either Chris or Maureen and I'd also confirm I have no idea who Jabba is.

I'd be happy if this particular thread was locked so we can all move on.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

I am going to post a link here and with my computer skills being naff, I hope it works. :whistling2:

Please all click on it and listen to an interview with Mr Weller, and then directly afterwards an interview with the RSPCA, and perhaps discuss this as it should be of concern to all of you wishing to keep DWAA and exotics in general. 

Note the comments on the snakes well. 

To save you listening for over an hour to get to the part with Chris Weller, please ensure when you hit the link that the pink time line is just above the word at the bottom right that says "player". It should be midway over this word and then you will have just moments until Chris's interview.

Mo. 


BBC iPlayer Console - Breakfast with John Warnett and Clare McDonnell: 19/01/2010


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

slippery42 said:


> Apology accepted and for the record I'd confirm that I've nothing against either Chris or Maureen and I'd also confirm I have no idea who Jabba is.
> 
> I'd be happy if this particular thread was locked so we can all move on.


Not yet please Slippery. Please see and click on the link in my post now above this one. 

Mo.


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## Paulusworm (Jan 26, 2009)

Nice positive speech from the RSPCA again then :whistling2:.

If it'll help find it quicker, Chris' bit starts at 1:50:55.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Only 72 crocs liscened in the uk against how many imports? does add to the theroy of mass noncompliance.
Intresting replie from the rspca guy, 4' snake in a 3' viv? what was the other dimensions of the viv? And as for his attitude to chris keeping the caimen just showed a pretty ill informed opinion as you would excpect from them.
Chris sounds a good guy whos really done his home work and got a fantactic set up so should be shown as how things should be done not dammed as come across from the rspca guy. 
Id love to visit chris at some point, one of my goals is to keep a croc in the future.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

Just out of interest, I would very much like to be able to save and download the interview on the iplayer, but seem unable to do so. Any one able to point me in the right direction please?????? It would be much appreciated as this interview will vanish from the site tonight, it's seven days then being up.
Am I being a typical Mo, or is it not allowed??????????

Mo.


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## Maureen Collinson (Oct 6, 2006)

blood and guts said:


> Only 72 crocs liscened in the uk against how many imports? does add to the theroy of mass noncompliance.
> Intresting replie from the rspca guy, 4' snake in a 3' viv? what was the other dimensions of the viv? And as for his attitude to chris keeping the caimen just showed a pretty ill informed opinion as you would excpect from them.
> Chris sounds a good guy whos really done his home work and got a fantactic set up so should be shown as how things should be done not dammed as come across from the rspca guy.
> Id love to visit chris at some point, one of my goals is to keep a croc in the future.


Chris would be very much up for a visit from you Jason, so just shout when you are able to come this way, and I will put you in contact with him. 

Mo. 

PS The rooms the animals have are fantastic.  Chris has just turned his place into a up/down house instead of a bungalow, choosing to give the animals the downstairs, and he lives upstairs for the main, so not how it sometimes comes over with the loft comments. They do share the Kitchen but then Chris prefers to eat out, and does so daily, so even the kitchen area is mostly for the preparation of the animals food, and 99% of that is brought from the local supermarket.


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## cabrera (Jun 28, 2009)

Every time I hear someone from the RSPCA give an interview I am reminded of why I do not like them ill informed is an understatement. Liked the bit about the croc could bite :lol2: I would like to see the bite figures for last year crocs vs dogs .

From the speech and the answers the inspector gave the RSPCA seem to be intent on sticking to an anti- reptile campaign it is a shame they cannot stick to their original manifesto which was to stop animal suffering.

Hey if there is going to be a day trip to go see Chris stick me on the list I would love to see what is has created for his reps.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I think we ought to put a lid on this one and if people still need to deal with some of the many, many different issues (!) that came up in this topic, either they can do it via PM or start individual topics with more clarity (possibly in more appropriate forum sections) 

Cheers
Lotte*


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