# Genetics



## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

I know there is a progarm for making the prediction of what corn morphs you will get, is there one the same for royals (or any other reptile?).


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Marcel Poots' Generic Gene Wizard has a setup for royals, but you'll need to tweak it heavily to get Mojave / Lesser / Butter / Phantom / Russo het Leucistic / Mystery Dilute working correctly as alleles of the same gene trait.


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## Toonami (Mar 18, 2008)

I have the marcel poots program and its very good, would be very usefull to have it set to royals as i have corns figured out now.

Dont spose anyone has their wizard set for royals and could send it to me, or tell me what i need to change to make it set for royals, that that might be more hassle 

Many thanks
Natalie


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## Toonami (Mar 18, 2008)

WOOHOOO

I have found a tweeked downloead yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
Its really good

LINK
Ians Vivarium International Reptile Community Forum • View topic - Generic Genetic Wizard - Updated version - Exclusive to IV

Hope this is okay


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Toonami said:


> WOOHOOO
> 
> I have found a tweeked downloead yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
> Its really good
> ...


That's not exclusive to IV, it's not even complete! It's Marcel's old version of his program, someone has just added a few royal morphs and they haven't even done it right because it's the old version (which couldn't cope with co-dominant genes). I asked Marcel about a week ago to add royal morphs to the program and change the gene strengths so that co-dominance works, but he doesn't know anything about them so I helped him to add them so that it does corns and royal genetics now. Download the new one here www.cornsnakes.nl


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

The version on Marcel's site still doesn't take into account that Mojave, Lesser, Russo het Leucistic, Phantom, Butter and "Hidden/Mystery Dilute/Crystal/Special/Daddy" are all alleles of the same gene pair.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

the version on IV has the royal python gene set as supplied by Marcel. It has been brought up to date with all the known corn snake morphs which all work correctly


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> The version on Marcel's site still doesn't take into account that Mojave, Lesser, Russo het Leucistic, Phantom, Butter and "Hidden/Mystery Dilute/Crystal/Special/Daddy" are all alleles of the same gene pair.


Yes it does.. try combining mojave/lesser for example, you will get blue eyed leucistic. The hidden gene stuff is a bit more complex, since it doesn't seem to be co-dom or recessive, so that's why the platty daddy hidden stuff has been left out. Feel free to add it though!



eeji said:


> the version on IV has the royal python gene set as supplied by Marcel. It has been brought up to date with all the known corn snake morphs which all work correctly


Yes and that set is old. So for royals, the version on IV isn't correct, only the corn section. The one on Marcel's site has updated versions for both gene sets


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

ladybird said:


> Yes it does.. try combining mojave/lesser for example, you will get blue eyed leucistic. The hidden gene stuff is a bit more complex, since it doesn't seem to be co-dom or recessive, so that's why the platty daddy hidden stuff has been left out. Feel free to add it though!


But try combining a Mojave/Lesser Blue-eyed Leucistic with a normal.

There are only two actual outcomes (Mojave OR Lesser) - but the current setup will show four (Normal, Mojave, Lesser, BluEL) because it's treating Mojave and Lesser as two different genes on two different loci, not two flavours of the same gene on the same locus.

As for the Hidden/Mystery Dilute gene... it's codominant to the other mutant genes on the locus by the way it acts, but may be recessive to normal where no homozygous animal's been produced (or dominant/codominant and just isn't particularly visually distinctive).


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> But try combining a Mojave/Lesser Blue-eyed Leucistic with a normal.
> 
> There are only two actual outcomes (Mojave OR Lesser) - but the current setup will show four (Normal, Mojave, Lesser, BluEL) because it's treating Mojave and Lesser as two different genes on two different loci, not two flavours of the same gene on the same locus.
> 
> As for the Hidden/Mystery Dilute gene... it's codominant to the other mutant genes on the locus by the way it acts, but may be recessive to normal where no homozygous animal's been produced (or dominant/codominant and just isn't particularly visually distinctive).


Isn't that how a lesser/mojave BEL works though? I thought it acted the same as any other double co-dom, like bumblebee... where you get 1/4 normal, 1/4 pastel, 1/4 spider, 1/4 bumblebee. Surely the genes don't melt into one, making it homozygous? It doesn't make sense


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

nobody said the royal set was correct. in fact i have zero interest in royal morphs, so our set will always be wrong if the original is wrong.

why are you being so picky about this?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

ladybird said:


> Isn't that how a lesser/mojave BEL works though? I thought it acted the same as any other double co-dom, like bumblebee... where you get 1/4 normal, 1/4 pastel, 1/4 spider, 1/4 bumblebee. Surely the genes don't melt into one, making it homozygous? It doesn't make sense


No, the Blue-Eyed Leucistics are not double codominant like Bumblebee.

They're two different mutant alleles on ONE locus.

A Bumblebee can be expressed as:

*P/Pa S/s* (*P* = normal not pastel, *Pa* = Pastel; *S* = Spider, *s* = normal not spider).
There are _two_ gene loci there - the Spider locus and the Pastel locus. 

But a Mojave Lesser BluEL is:

*Wl/Wm* (*Wl* = Lesser; *Wm* = Mojave).
_One _gene locus, _two _mutant traits.

This is analogous to the Agouti locus in mice - there are six possible alleles here (Dominant Viable Yellow, Dominant Lethal Yellow, Agouti wildtype, Tan, Self, Extreme Non-Agouti), and a mouse can have two of a single flavour OR any two of the six. An animal that is Agouti Tan can only pass on one half to any given offspring (so they can have either agouti offspring OR tan offspring, but unless you breed them to an appropriate mate, you will not get more Agouti Tans).


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

eeji said:


> nobody said the royal set was correct. in fact i have zero interest in royal morphs, so our set will always be wrong if the original is wrong.
> 
> why are you being so picky about this?


...as an addition to this, i just downloaded the latest from marcels site, and our corn set is still more up to date, so yes, it is still an exclusive download :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> No, the Blue-Eyed Leucistics are not double codominant like Bumblebee.
> 
> They're two different mutant alleles on ONE locus.
> 
> ...


Now I'm even more confused!!!!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Right, confusion:

Not all "combination" morphs are the result of two different morph gene loci - some of the "combo" morphs are the result of one locus with multiple different mutants.

Spider and Pastel are two totally different genetic traits.
Mojave and Lesser are two variations of the same SINGLE genetic trait (call it "white snake").


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Right, confusion:
> 
> Not all "combination" morphs are the result of two different morph gene loci - some of the "combo" morphs are the result of one locus with multiple different mutants.
> 
> ...


I see. So if you breed a LesserxMojave BEL to a normal, you get 1/2 mojave and 1/2 lesser babies, is that right?


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

Yes.


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