# Live Feeding



## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Is the live feeding of vertebrates lawful?

I know there is a sticky in the snake section, but I'm told this is outdated. Can anyone provide a comprehensive answer please?


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

I believe it's a grey area. Something like you can but you'd somehow have to prove undue suffering didn't occur. So if there was an option to not feed live then you'd be told to take that route, but if your snake/reptile etc will not feed on anything but live vertebrates, then you'd be able to, as the animal welfare act would also protect your own pet in it's need to be able to feed...so it's a bit of double edged sword.

I don't think you'd be going to court for it realistically unless you made youtube videos and commented on how you enjoyed the preys suffering.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

it's lawful there...


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Mynki said:


> Is the live feeding of vertebrates lawful?
> 
> I know there is a sticky in the snake section, but I'm told this is outdated. *Can anyone provide a comprehensive answer please?*


 
No. They can't.

The law is untested as it stands and no-one has pressed charges against someone for live feeding a vertebrate.

The Animal Welfare Act 2006 is ambigous in this area and until a precident is set in a court of law and a judge makes the judgement there is no 'comprehensive answer'.


If you search for the live feeding threads on this forum you will finf hundreds of 'comprehensive' discussions, but all of them are moot until a judgement is made in a court of law.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Live feeding of vertebrates has never been ‘illegal’ - under the Animal Welfare Act a proposal to outlaw the feeding of a live vertebrate to another was made and subsequently withdrawn. However, an offence could be committed if the pray item was caused ‘unnecessary suffering’, you might argue that being eaten whilst alive would cause suffering, indeed it might. However, if that suffering was necessary, i.e. the predator would not eat dead pray, then that is the defence to any charge. If on the other hand you feed live bunnies to pythons just for fun, or to impress your mates, then you might have a problem [and rightly so]. The whole issue of live feeding is complicated and best avoided if possible, at the end of the day its best avoided if possible because the pray tends to object to being eaten, unsurprisingly, and can cause significant injury to the predator.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Chris Newman said:


> Live feeding of vertebrates has never been ‘illegal’ - under the Animal Welfare Act a proposal to outlaw the feeding of a live vertebrate to another was made and subsequently withdrawn.




Can you elaborate on this please? Why was it withdrawn etc.




Chris Newman said:


> However, an offence could be committed if the pray item was caused ‘unnecessary suffering’, you might argue that being eaten whilst alive would cause suffering, indeed it might. However, if that suffering was necessary, i.e. the predator would not eat dead pray, then that is the defence to any charge. If on the other hand you feed live bunnies to pythons just for fun, or to impress your mates, then you might have a problem [and rightly so]. The whole issue of live feeding is complicated and best avoided if possible, at the end of the day its best avoided if possible because the pray tends to object to being eaten, unsurprisingly, and can cause significant injury to the predator.


This is how I see things. However, I've been in discussions with a journalist within the pet keeping industry who believes it is unlawful to feed vertebrates in all circumstances.

I did explain that no one has ever been prosecuted under the act and so that the law is untested. His counter argument centers around the fact that some UK institutions including the LSTM have a special exemptiom for feeding live food, granted by the home office. This has been confirmed on by PDR on here.

Now, the argument is, that if an exemption can be made, then the law must state that live feeding is unlawful. I've read the act, and note that there is no mention of live feeding specifically. I do see the logic in the argument, and I was surprised that an exemption can be made. So I'm now confused. Hence me starting this very thread!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

I can assure you it is not, nor has ever been illegal to feed live pray – full stop. Certain radical ‘welfare’ organisations have always said they believe it is illegally and would prosecute, and indeed have under the old 1911 Act. However, the simple fact is there is no law in the UK that states it’s an offence to feed a live vertebrate animal to another – it come back to ‘unnecessary suffering’.

During the development of the Animal Welfare Bill, now Act specific discussions took place to ban live feeding, this was objected to and subsequently dropped. Indeed the new Act is more helpful on this issue due to the assistance provided by the radical welfare organisation demanding that one of the five needs enshrined in the Act be ‘the need to exhibit normal behaviour’ – snakes are predators not scavengers, so one could argue that today it is illegal to feed dead pray to snakes!! 

It comes down to common sense, if someone was feeding live rabbits to a python just for the fun of it or to impress his/her mattes then perhaps there is a case for a prosecution as the ‘duty of care’ bestowed upon the keeper of the rabbit has not been discharged. [the person feeding the rabbit to the snake would be deemed to be in control of a protected animals, thus liable under the Act, in my view] 

This has reminded me that we have drafted a Code of Practice for live feeding, perhaps in light of this discussion it is time to publish this document.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

On the issue of LSTM, animals kept there would be governed by the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act, 1986. I have no idea if this Act restricts the live feeding of vertebrate animals, but even if it did it would have no relevance to the public/private keepers.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Chris, who proposed to ban live feeding and why was it rejected? Is any of this documented on the parliament site?

Also, if the law applies to feeder animals, could it not be argued that the feeder animsl is being subjected to pain and suffering? Even if it was only fed to ensure the survival of the predator.


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## michellew (Jun 3, 2009)

I would personally only feed live as a last resort but I heartily agree snakes etc eat live in the wild therefore to give them as realistic a life in captivity they would need live food. 
The fact most snakes etc will eat euthanased / frozen / defrosted food has made reptile keeping more accessible and acceptable and to promote live feeding would damage the reputation of responsible keepers in the publics' eyes but we do need a get out clause in case it is needed at some point in extreme cases.


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