# Non venomous dwa?



## mooshu (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi I want to get a dwarf caimen one day if I ever get enough money to build a enclosure, I was just wandering if the license needed for a non venomous DWA is the same as a venomous DWA license 
Sorry if its a noob question!?
Cheers
Tom


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## kain (Mar 23, 2009)

yes its the same license


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

I must admit i've always kinda thought about this, as to why some of the dwarf sp are on the DWA. Because i know they're wild animals per say, but are they anymore dangerous than some of the things we're allowed to keep in our home legally? Like giant snakes, certain breeds of dogs and some of the inverts we're allowed to keep have some of the nastiest bites known! Sicarious sp are allowed to be kept, yet these are arguably the most venomous spiders on earth!


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## naja-naja (Aug 26, 2009)

i thought that it was because that if you got a baby of the big species you could just say it was an older one of the smaller species if it wasn't on the licence and one could fool an inspector, whereas if they are all on the list then there is no confusion, its either a croc or it isnt.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I must admit i've always kinda thought about this, as to why some of the dwarf sp are on the DWA. Because i know they're wild animals per say, but are they anymore dangerous than some of the things we're allowed to keep in our home legally? Like giant snakes, certain breeds of dogs and some of the inverts we're allowed to keep have some of the nastiest bites known! Sicarious sp are allowed to be kept, yet these are arguably the most venomous spiders on earth!


Isnt the law great! :whistling2:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

SiUK said:


> Isnt the law great! :whistling2:


The laws great if you live in another country. A lot of people who have the DWAL disagree with me here, but i think a lot of it is another reason for the country to get even more money out of us! It's like £250 a year down here, sounds ok, but then add the insurance....


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

So lets say you wanted a DWA license to keep dwarf caimen, would you need to go through the training for venomous snakes aswell?


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> The laws great if you live in another country. A lot of people who have the DWAL disagree with me here, but i think a lot of it is another reason for the country to get even more money out of us! It's like £250 a year down here, sounds ok, but then add the insurance....


Why are you so concerned as to how much the DWA licence costs? You are happy to keep DWA listed species illegaly as you have stated so in the "Spiders and Inverts Pictures" section of the forum. 
As you have no idea on the amount of time and resourses spent by the council in prosessing the licence, you are not qualified to say how much it should cost. 
Maybe you will be able to explain to the magistrate how much your fine should be when you are inevitably caught.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> So lets say you wanted a DWA license to keep dwarf caimen, would you need to go through the training for venomous snakes aswell?


There's no training. To get a DWA licence you have to, though it varies by council district, prove you have the knowledge, experience and equipment to handle the species you are requesting to keep.

A vet or council worker will generally inspect the premises and interview you. You will generally have to demonstrate knowledge of the husbandry and care of your species to be granted a licence.


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## tallandy90 (Nov 28, 2010)

i have seen god knows how many pitbulls around the council dont do **** all probs cuss the people who have them are idiots and are scared to say anything to them but come on ffs you get a monitor lizard that will reach 6-8ft but not a drawf caimen 4ft max hmmm the law is dumb


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Monitors get big yeah, but a bite from a dwarf camen will really ruin your day. Wouldnt like to be bitten by a big Nile or salv but would rather it over the caimen.

I do agree that the DWA needs a shake up on whats on and not on the list.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Khaos said:


> There's no training. To get a DWA licence you have to, though it varies by council district, prove you have the knowledge, experience and equipment to handle the species you are requesting to keep.
> 
> A vet or council worker will generally inspect the premises and interview you. You will generally have to demonstrate knowledge of the husbandry and care of your species to be granted a licence.


Well experience is kind of what I meant by training.

Basically, once you have your licence, can you keep any DWA species? 

This is what confuses me, lets say you have a license granted after your dwarf caiman set up, knowledge, experience has been checked. Could I then, theoretically, go out and buy a venomous snake? Even though I have no experience with them.


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Well experience is kind of what I meant by training.
> 
> Basically, once you have your licence, can you keep any DWA species?
> 
> This is what confuses me, lets say you have a license granted after your dwarf caiman set up, knowledge, experience has been checked. Could I then, theoretically, go out and buy a venomous snake? Even though I have no experience with them.


From my understanding the licence would have to be updated like adding another car to an insurance policy.

I suppse the vet may call again to check as the previous one carried out on your property was for a croc and not snakes?


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Well experience is kind of what I meant by training.
> 
> Basically, once you have your licence, can you keep any DWA species?
> 
> This is what confuses me, lets say you have a license granted after your dwarf caiman set up, knowledge, experience has been checked. Could I then, theoretically, go out and buy a venomous snake? Even though I have no experience with them.


Short answer no

Depends on your council entirely 

An example.... http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/dwa-species/619716-swap.html


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ahh so each time you get a new animal you have to request an update to your license. Got it.

Thanks.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Well experience is kind of what I meant by training.
> 
> Basically, once you have your licence, can you keep any DWA species?
> 
> This is what confuses me, lets say you have a license granted after your dwarf caiman set up, knowledge, experience has been checked. Could I then, theoretically, go out and buy a venomous snake? Even though I have no experience with them.


A DWA licence doesn't give you a green light to keep anything and everything on the DWA register. 

You have to get permission from the issuing council for each type. If it's a similar one to those you already carry, you have a history of proper care and a good reputation, you may get it without the need for additional inspections.

If you keep vipers and suddenly decide to keep a monkey, you'll probably have some hoops to jump through...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah I realise my question was a bit silly now :lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

each council differs so greatly, that alot of what is said on here is pure speculation when it comes to general standards, both the councils I have been licensed by were totally different when wanting requirements.

However DEFRA are writing guidelines for councils at the moment, so hopefully they should be rolled out quite soon.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

southwest vipers said:


> Why are you so concerned as to how much the DWA licence costs? You are happy to keep DWA listed species illegaly as you have stated so in the "Spiders and Inverts Pictures" section of the forum.
> As you have no idea on the amount of time and resourses spent by the council in prosessing the licence, you are not qualified to say how much it should cost.
> Maybe you will be able to explain to the magistrate how much your fine should be when you are inevitably caught.


Caught for what? If you read through the whole of that thread you would of realised what was going on. I did have DWA listed spiders once, but because i didn't want the hassle of getting caught and having a large fine, i sold them on to a DWA holder. A man deemed by his council to be good enough to keep DWA animals. Yet it was him posting up pictures of him holding a DWA listed spider, and acting all bravado about doing so. Not myself the once illegal keeper. 

The fact is you're still going on about something that was like over a year ago. But the spiders whilst in my care were kept secure and looked after really well. Unlike now, with someone who's apparently worthy of holding the high and mighty DWAL. The thing is here you don't like me because i've kept these spiders illegally, but that shouldn't be an excuse for you to act like you're better than me because you have the DWAL. And when i thought i'd better get rid of them, i made sure they went to DWAL holders. Some went to a zoo and are on public display in a venom section, and some went to a DWAL holder who turned out to be an idiot who thinks posting pictures of himself holding a Phoneutria will get people to wow him. 

So please stop acting like you're better than me because you have a piece of paper saying you're good to keep these animals, as clearly not everyone who gets a DWAL should have one. I just won't pay out the money.


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Caught for what? If you read through the whole of that thread you would of realised what was going on. I did have DWA listed spiders once, but because i didn't want the hassle of getting caught and having a large fine, i sold them on to a DWA holder. A man deemed by his council to be good enough to keep DWA animals. Yet it was him posting up pictures of him holding a DWA listed spider, and acting all bravado about doing so. Not myself the once illegal keeper.
> 
> The fact is you're still going on about something that was like over a year ago. But the spiders whilst in my care were kept secure and looked after really well. Unlike now, with someone who's apparently worthy of holding the high and mighty DWAL. The thing is here you don't like me because i've kept these spiders illegally, but that shouldn't be an excuse for you to act like you're better than me because you have the DWAL. And when i thought i'd better get rid of them, i made sure they went to DWAL holders. Some went to a zoo and are on public display in a venom section, and some went to a DWAL holder who turned out to be an idiot who thinks posting pictures of himself holding a Phoneutria will get people to wow him.
> 
> So please stop acting like you're better than me because you have a piece of paper saying you're good to keep these animals, as clearly not everyone who gets a DWAL should have one. I just won't pay out the money.


You are being very economical with the truth. The fact is that up until very recently you have been buying and selling DWA listed spiders illegaly. As you well know.The man you sold the illegaly held Phoneutria is better than you as he has qualified for his DWA licence and is therefore able to handle his specimens as he feels fit. It is his decision and risk. You have not qualified for a licence and are not entitled to a valid comment. Only an unqualified opinion. You seem to have a "chip" on your shoulder about feeling inferior to bonafide DWA licence holders and the cost of the licencing application. You would not qualify for the licence, even if it was free. Your personal circumstances would forebid it. I posted to you on a previous thread or PM, the details and criteria required to apply for a licence, but you said that you didn't have the money to do so. You seem to have the money to buy more animals illegaly but none to even attempt to comply with the law. You are directly responsible for giving the hobby a bad reputation.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

southwest vipers said:


> You are being very economical with the truth. The fact is that up until very recently you have been buying and selling DWA listed spiders illegaly. As you well know.The man you sold the illegaly held Phoneutria is better than you as he has qualified for his DWA licence and is therefore able to handle his specimens as he feels fit. It is his decision and risk. You have not qualified for a licence and are not entitled to a valid comment. Only an unqualified opinion. You seem to have a "chip" on your shoulder about feeling inferior to bonafide DWA licence holders and the cost of the licencing application. You would not qualify for the licence, even if it was free. Your personal circumstances would forebid it. I posted to you on a previous thread or PM, the details and criteria required to apply for a licence, but you said that you didn't have the money to do so. You seem to have the money to buy more animals illegaly but none to even attempt to comply with the law. You are directly responsible for giving the hobby a bad reputation.


Lol you say i have a chip on my shoulder? And the guy who handles them is more qualified than me? Who was it posting pictures holding these dangerous animals? Putting himself and others at risk? Not me. It was the 'more qualified' DWAL holder. And no i don't feel inferior to license holders at all, most of you are ok. But then there are ones like you that are a bit of a stickler for lifes rules, no matter how crap they may be. Fact is i'm actually friendly with a few license holders because they don't act like their god for having one. 

And for your information it was about a year ago i kept these, and i did what should of been seen as right, by selling them to what i thought were sensible DWAL holders. One was a zoo, which has given them a good home, another was a license holder that has used them to try to make himself look good on a forum. As i said earlier, when i had them, they were looked after well and kept secure. Never handled. I respected them for what they were, and admired them for what they are. I kept them because i've been in the arachnid side of the hobby for 15 years. So pretty much the same as you lot in here, i'm pretty sure none of you started off with DWA snakes. You build upto it. 

Saying i'm not qualified to keep them is a bit stupid if you ask me. I have more experiance at keeping at keeping arachnids than most people on this forum. The only thing i lack, is the high cost of the insurance because my outgoings each month is quite high. And i won't put myself under more financial pressure.

You saying the other guy is more qualified is actually a huge joke to be honest. As anyone without a silly grudge agaisnt me, and reading this from a neutral point of view would feel that i would be a lot more qualified to look after DWA spiders than the person in question. And if you want to do some real council detective work for them how about you look into the person in question? I really don't think his licence is real


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Lol you say i have a chip on my shoulder? And the guy who handles them is more qualified than me? Who was it posting pictures holding these dangerous animals? Putting himself and others at risk? Not me. It was the 'more qualified' DWAL holder. And no i don't feel inferior to license holders at all, most of you are ok. But then there are ones like you that are a bit of a stickler for lifes rules, no matter how crap they may be. Fact is i'm actually friendly with a few license holders because they don't act like their god for having one.
> 
> And for your information it was about a year ago i kept these, and i did what should of been seen as right, by selling them to what i thought were sensible DWAL holders. One was a zoo, which has given them a good home, another was a license holder that has used them to try to make himself look good on a forum. As i said earlier, when i had them, they were looked after well and kept secure. Never handled. I respected them for what they were, and admired them for what they are. I kept them because i've been in the arachnid side of the hobby for 15 years. So pretty much the same as you lot in here, i'm pretty sure none of you started off with DWA snakes. You build upto it.
> 
> ...


 Once again you are being economical with the truth. You were visited and questioned by the Public Protection Dept of the City Council about your collection of spiders. You then panicked and sold/ disposed of the illegaly kept specimens. This is how and why the new keepers aquired your spiders.It's a bit rich for you to come onto the forum to criticise a bonafide licence holder after you admitted keeping illegaly. The very man you sold the spider to. Perhaps, you should "vet" all of you potential buyers before you sell them your illegaly held specimens. In case they may not treat them to your exactingly high standards. 
Nobody has a grudge against you, but you appear to have an unhealthy disrespect for the DWA rules. The same rules that all of the bonafide licence holders on the forum abide by. How can you expect to gain any respect by admitting on the forum that you are breaking the laws that we all adhere to. This realy is foolish behavior Tim.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

southwest vipers said:


> Once again you are being economical with the truth. You were visited and questioned by the Public Protection Dept of the City Council about your collection of spiders. You then panicked and sold/ disposed of the illegaly kept specimens. This is how and why the new keepers aquired your spiders.It's a bit rich for you to come onto the forum to criticise a bonafide licence holder after you admitted keeping illegaly. The very man you sold the spider to. Perhaps, you should "vet" all of you potential buyers before you sell them your illegaly held specimens. In case they may not treat them to your exactingly high standards.
> Nobody has a grudge against you, but you appear to have an unhealthy disrespect for the DWA rules. The same rules that all of the bonafide licence holders on the forum abide by. How can you expect to gain any respect by admitting on the forum that you are breaking the laws that we all adhere to. This realy is foolish behavior Tim.


And once again you've got the truth 100% wrong. I did have a visit here yes, but that was a long time *after* i got rid of them. So no i did not panic sell. I sold because for a while now i've been toying with the idea of getting out of the invert side of the hobby for a while, something else you would of realised if you read it all. And don't act like i'm having a go at all DWAL holders because that's not the case here. The fact is invert keeping shouldn't be held in the same catergory as DWA snake keeping. And that's something i've always said. 

Thing is here you're going on what you think, not what you know.


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> And once again you've got the truth 100% wrong. I did have a visit here yes, but that was a long time *after* i got rid of them. So no i did not panic sell. I sold because for a while now i've been toying with the idea of getting out of the invert side of the hobby for a while, something else you would of realised if you read it all. And don't act like i'm having a go at all DWAL holders because that's not the case here. The fact is invert keeping shouldn't be held in the same catergory as DWA snake keeping. And that's something i've always said.
> 
> Thing is here you're going on what you think, not what you know.


I think it's clear how you conduct yourself within the hobby to everyone of the genuine DWA licence holders that reads this forum by what you have said in the last few threads. I doubt if anyone of them would condone your behavior for a moment. You have damaged the hobby and your own credibility enough already. So over to you for the last word to try and redeem your integrity.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

southwest vipers said:


> I think it's clear how you conduct yourself within the hobby to everyone of the genuine DWA licence holders that reads this forum by what you have said in the last few threads. I doubt if anyone of them would condone your behavior for a moment. You have damaged the hobby and your own credibility enough already. So over to you for the last word to try and redeem your integrity.


Are you really as stuck up as you come across on here? Can't you just give it a rest? You're actually boring me with your nonsense. Yes i kept them without the DWAL, but i kept them well and i kept them safe. Unlike someone who apparently has a DWAL. But i don't hear you having a go at him saying how he's damaging the reputation of DWAL holders by being such an idiot by putting himself and others at risk. No instead you have a go at me, someone who you seem to have a problem with for no reason. Grow up and get a life.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks like you made a mistake and learnt from it. Time to move on.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Looks like you made a mistake and learnt from it. Time to move on.



Yup. Shame some others can't.


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## mattb22 (Feb 1, 2007)

Must say coming from a completly unbiased person who only keeps lizards and hasn't got the slightest clue about keeping spiders or dwa species (hate spiders), that keeping them illegally is wrong, but I would prefer to see someone caring for them properly but illegally rather than someone with a licence putting there life on the line along with other peoples lives by stupidly showing off... im also sure if there local council saw those pictures there licence would be revoked

Just my opinion.


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## volly (Mar 6, 2009)

I think the whole "licence" thing needs to be severely looked at and overhauled.

Not just who gets a licence but what's on it.

There are a lot of animals that in my "minimal" experience and in my humble opinion should be on the DWA list that aren't - and vice versa.

Burms, Iguana's, Retics should be on there just to name a few ( again, just my opinion so don't shoot me ).

The fact that somebody has a licence doesn't make them any better or anymore qualified at caring for animals than the next person.

Take a driving licence for example - ok so it's completely different and in no way related to this topic but I know a handful of people who simply shouldn't have one and often wonder how the hell the passed thier tests?
It all depends how you perform on the day and if your luck's in.

Nothing can beat knowledge and experience - doesn't matter if you give the right answers at the time.

That's my 2p worth anyway, lol.

Cheers,
Volly


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> And once again you've got the truth 100% wrong. I did have a visit here yes, but that was a long time *after* i got rid of them. So no i did not panic sell. I sold because for a while now i've been toying with the idea of getting out of the invert side of the hobby for a while, something else you would of realised if you read it all. And don't act like i'm having a go at all DWAL holders because that's not the case here. The fact is invert keeping shouldn't be held in the same catergory as DWA snake keeping. And that's something i've always said.
> 
> Thing is here you're going on what you think, not what you know.


I can confirm this as my OH (licensed) was contacted to see if we had the space and if we were going past (have relatives in Cornwall) to collect these long before Tim had a visit.


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## ex0tics (Jun 9, 2009)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yup. Shame some others can't.


I'm with Tim on this one, granted legally owning the animals should be enforced. But abusing a DWAL is if anything stupid. I think the licensing needs to be rethought.

You have for instance an a.australis, you can fairly easily look after a scorp fully without ever coming into close contact with one.

If you kept a mangrove snake it would be alot harder to never have to come within a couple feet of it, I mean substrate changes, bulb changes, clutches laid you'd have to atleast handle it(Snake hook, or not :lol

I think you need a certain level of respect and care for an animal, rather than just a license you may have gotten (which could be by total chance!) obviously both being the way to go.

He's clearly learned from this and moved on, he's explained this and understands it. I don't think he needs a lecture everytime he posts, especially being on a different discussion. You can atleast credit him for moving them on to what he had _thought_ would be a reputable buyer.


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

it really pisses me when i hear people say oooo i have a dwa so im capable of looking after dwa animals as its a load of crap 

in my opinion the dwa license is a load of :censor: as the vet that inspects you most prob as no experience with dwa animals so how the hell would he no if you had a caimen or a saltwater croc 

i think that the guy made some mistakes and i don't get why people keep rambling on about it i got to be honest im going to be applying for a dwa my self but if someone come up to me and said do you want to buy this cobra i would be extremely tempted :lol2: but if the council wont issue me one i wont be giving up and i will be looking into bribing people sorry if this pees some of yous off but no hard feelings as i don't see why the council should be able to mess up what you really want


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

How could you bribe someone into giving you a DWA - surely there is more than one official individual involved?


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

It also pisses me off, when I have to spend a stupid amount of money every year on a DWA, when "many" keep spiders and snakes under their bed (literally under their bed too - I know of this happening). I also know of bites, in the UK, where the keeper was bitten, and everything turned into a major flap, and the keeper was reluctant to visit the hospital... the next day the snakes were gone!

I think what Mark is trying to say, is that "most" DWA keepers are capable of dealing with their animals, based on research and help they have gained from others - the quiet ones just keep their animals, and sometimes have no idea what to do if things go wrong.

Yes, correct, you don't need a piece of paper to say you can handle snakes, but as they say "it's not my law, it's *the* law!"

Now it's New Year in a few hours, how about we do what they do at war (might as well be on this forum), and make piece of a few hours.

Cheers,

Dave


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I agree with Dave, having the piece of paper doesnt prove you can handle the snakes but it does prove you are responsible enough to do things properly.

I also know of a few unlicensed keepers who dont do things properly that have venomous snakes in their bedrooms. No one wants an escaped snake on their conciense but god forbid if it did happen at least a licensed keeper has the correct public liability insurance in place.

Fact is its against the law and going by quite a recent court case they came down like a ton of bricks on an unlicensed keeper, fining them £1500 and banning them from keeping for 10 years, pretty hefty sentence really.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

berry1 said:


> im going to be applying for a dwa my self but if someone come up to me and said do you want to buy this cobra i would be extremely tempted :lol2: but if the council wont issue me one i wont be giving up and i will be looking into bribing people


If the council won't issue you a DWA, look very hard at WHY they didn't - if they don't think you're fit to have what you're asking to keep, what made them think that?

I would be shocked if my council issued me a licence to keep a tiger where I'm living - and if they refused, it's for a good reason!


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## mattykyuss (Oct 12, 2009)

*re*

same as these idiots who drive cars with no licence ,then end up killing somebody ,putting there family through hell ,not being able to clame any moneys cuz the dick heads had no insurance ,no tax ,no mot ,but hey ,they thought they could drive ,uive been in this situation ,and its hell ,so somebody with a hot snake ,it gets out ,bites my son and kills him ,better hope that they get caught by owning up ,like that is going to happen ,and get a long sentance ,if not they would not see many more days


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> If the council won't issue you a DWA, look very hard at WHY they didn't - if they don't think you're fit to have what you're asking to keep, what made them think that?
> 
> I would be shocked if my council issued me a licence to keep a tiger where I'm living - and if they refused, it's for a good reason!


yes i can perfectly understand if its for a tiger or similar wild cat but as im shore you already no some councils will make it nearly impossible to meet the requirements but as i said i wont to do it legally that's why im going to apply for the license 



mattykyuss said:


> same as these idiots who drive cars with no licence ,then end up killing somebody ,putting there family through hell ,not being able to clame any moneys cuz the dick heads had no insurance ,no tax ,no mot ,but hey ,they thought they could drive ,uive been in this situation ,and its hell ,so somebody with a hot snake ,it gets out ,bites my son and kills him ,better hope that they get caught by owning up ,like that is going to happen ,and get a long sentance ,if not they would not see many more days


do you actually know no body has ever been killed or seryasly injured by their dwa animals and lets take a king cobra they need temps between 25-30 degrees how long do you think that cobra would last if it escaped in are climate i count even see it striking any body as can you really see a snake that needs 25-30 degrees attacking in a 10-15 degree climate


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

berry1 said:


> do you actually know no body has ever been seryasly injured by their dwa animals


I wouldnt be so sure about that mate


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

sorry i meant to say no one has ever been killed by their dwa in the uk


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## berry1 (Sep 25, 2010)

but any way do you get what i mean :devil: : victory: i don't even think venomous snakes should be on the dwa as what damage are they really going to do to the public if they escaped they would die of our climate


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

berry1 said:


> but any way do you get what i mean :devil: : victory: i don't even think venomous snakes should be on the dwa as what damage are they really going to do to the public if they escaped they would die of our climate


They could result in a fatal envenomation for anyone who tried to pick one up - you are aware that there are *native* snakes, right, that don't have any trouble at all surviving in our climate? And that there are other snakes that live in similar temperatures?

I can guarantee you that a western diamondback or a prairie rattler wouldn't go outside and freeze solid the moment it got out there right *now* let alone in summertime. Just because their optimum basking temperature is higher doesn't mean they can't cope for at least a little while in lower temperatures.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

berry1 said:


> but any way do you get what i mean :devil: : victory: i don't even think venomous snakes should be on the dwa as what damage are they really going to do to the public if they escaped they would die of our climate



do you only pick snakes up once they've escaped?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

berry1 said:


> but any way do you get what i mean :devil: : victory: i don't even think venomous snakes should be on the dwa as what damage are they really going to do to the public if they escaped they would die of our climate


 DID YOU REALLY JUST SAY THAT????????:lol2:


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