# I would like to clarify something...



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

After reading something on another forum I would like to clarify a few things.

All animals we sell are our own, we no longer sell on behalf of a shop. If this changes it will be (as it used to be) stated clearly.

Now apparently several people have been "warned off" us because of our association with a shop. I want to make it adundantly clear that we do not own, run, work in or have any financial interest in any reptile shop.


we did for a period sell for a shop to try and help out a local rep shop who were just starting up. We always stated this and were always free with this information.

I would also like to point out that we have only ever had two complaints, both relating to a group of dart frogs. To my knowledge all of our other customers have been satisfied.

Apparently there are some people on here who think otherwise, think we own/run a rep shop and that it is a bad one.. We do not. I am a full time Network administrator and Sami is now at university full time, prior to this she had a full time job in customer services. Neither of us have ever owned, worked in or run a reptile shop. we maintened a website for one and sold their animals online for them (including on this forum) as they have absolutely no idea when it comes to computers and the internet.



I would ask whoever thinks differently, whoever thinks any of this is a lie or an attempt to mislead to either post here or PM me or both.

To make it abundantly clear:


Anything we sell is nothing to do with any shop unless we clearly state otherwise (which I doubt will be happening again now) and I would appreciate it if absolutely anyone who has any kind of issue with us please PM us so we can iron it out 

Cheers.

Mason


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

A while back I did ask you and you explaned then and honesty .And if you ever have owt for sale and I fancy it I will buy it (PRICE DEPENDING LOL )I dont have a problem and dont see why anybody else should have...Brian


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

I know the feeling Mason since a certain post on here no one seems to be interested in purchasing my own snakes from here. Just shows when a rumour goes around how bad it can be for someone. It is very very annoying more when the rumour is wrong. I heard something about you supposed to be selling on behalf of a shop but at the end of the day if you are then fair enough if not then fair enough. Should it really matter if your selling on behalf of a shop as long as its stated when your selling them. Mason dont suppose you know anyone with any mack snows or blazing blizzards lol


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## NicolaMe (Nov 2, 2006)

Why would it make a difference if you were a shop or not? If you had a snake i wanted it would make no difference if you were a private breeder, hobbyist or shop


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

For some strange reason it does make a difference and no one understands why. But its stupid really, think about it if theres a snake you want or a lizard you want do you honestly care where it comes from as long as its in good condition and healthy?


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## NicolaMe (Nov 2, 2006)

Diablo said:


> For some strange reason it does make a difference and no one understands why. But its stupid really, think about it if theres a snake you want or a lizard you want do you honestly care where it comes from as long as its in good condition and healthy?


That is the most important thing that you sell a healthy and well looked after rep, and that your happy to respond to any problems that the buyer may have after purchase


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## NicolaMe (Nov 2, 2006)

Sorry i posted twice, the forum went off and i must have hit the button twice.....im bad


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

It does not matter if we are or are not a shop, what does matter is that because of one problem we are know known as the owners of a dodgy shop.

an example:

this picture of me holding an ATB that is shop stock (as clearly stated on the advert) was posted (on another forum):










along with comments like this:

"I've seen him advertising on Rep Forums UK quite a bit, when I posted an enquiry about some of his stock I quickly received several PMs from other forum members, all basically saying "don't touch with a bargepole", I'm glad I took their advice"

I'd love to know who...as like I said as far as we know we have total customer satisfaction apart from an issue with some PDF's and no one has coem to us with a problem, but someone is obviously doling out PM's about us being bad (despite the fact that "us" were only the people selling stock for a shop online.



> They are pretty bitey things too, and judging by the way hes got hold of it I would say that one is no exception I hope its nailed him a few times!!.
> 
> If you want action taken against these cowboys, I'd first approach the county council of the area that the shop is in, they are responsible for issuing pet trade licences and have to act on any reported suspicions of cruelty cases even if they do get the RSPCA in to check the allegations out.


Cowboys? 2 complaints ever and we're cowboys? :roll:




> well after checking on reptileforums i asked them and got the addy
> 
> 
> Lizard of Oz, Portland Street, Mansfield Woodhouse, Nottinghamshire NG19 9LE
> ...


 
Well how about this eh...must be a big conspiracy.... OR it could be something as simple as if people bypassed us and went directly to the shop to buy we lost our (very small) percentage comission despite whatever time we may have spent securing the sale online (days of sending pictures, answering PMs etc etc). We never added money to their prices (again the odd one or two people that did goto the shop can attest to that). Are we expected to donate our time/effort for nothing? 

All we did was make regular listings online for our local rep shop, we made it clear to everyone who brough from us and on every post (remember..."Lizard of oz stocklist")


Basically what I am trying to say is that if anyone has any problem with us, anything we have sold or whatever why not come to us with it? this applies even more to the people who are passing on "well she told me that they said that they did...." crap.

Hell we're not expecting to have 100% satisfaction, no business ever acheives that in any field, what I would prefer though is to actually have done something wrong before we get a reputation for doing so 

the association we had with that shop is now over (no time any more!) anything and everything (unless we CLEARLY state otherwise) we are selling is our own.

Mason



Mason


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

lol  doesnt matter but I know what you mean about as long as they are healthy that is all that matters. 

Its all gravy


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Ahh Mason i always knew you was dodgey lol  but not in the reptile world lmao from what ive seen mate your very very passionate about your reptiles and wouldnt see any harm done to them what so ever. Screw all the rumours this crap needs to stop and needs to stop now we are all supposed to be protecting the hobby and guess what at the moment the hobbys worst threat is ourselves because of all the people out there that keep reps are rubbishing each other. We need to stand as one and unite our forces and be together not apart or in little cliques AMEN MY BROTHER.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Having personally met mason and sami and found them to be refreshingly knowledgable people should be grateful they are buyi ng stock from people who know their onions, no matter its sources. there are noobs to this hobby who breed corns in their first year, sell them on classifieds with no idea whether they are good stock.

i dont care whether people like sami and mason breed their own stock or get it from the moon. i trust their opinions enough to know what i'd be getting.


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

I thought mason was sexy


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

but sami was sexier


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

lol Tops


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## Pincers n Paws (Aug 22, 2007)

I've bought from mason and sami, great people who found a snake i was looking for and charged a good price. Shop stock, private stock etc who cares, they helped me find what i wanted and sold me a very healthy hognose and for that im grateful. Some people need to get a life and stop sticking their noses in where its not welcome.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I have never bought of Sami and Mason but of all thier posts I have read on this nad other forums, they always come across as honest and knowledgable and seem a dam site more interested in the welfare of the herps that some people I have come across (not on thie forum might I add)

I have seen past ads of thiers which always stated if the animals were shop owned or thier personal collection and in both cases, the pics have always shown a healthy well cared for animal.

Stuff em all I say - you can't please everyone and some people will alwyas pick faultin whatever ay they can


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

slanderous, slanderous i say!!


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Hear Hear Habu god can tell your back lol thats a good thing


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

just want to say thanks for all the support guys...

went off to my first day at college in a bad mood, after reading some of this stuff on the other site... 

i'd like to think that people can come back to us if they do have any problems... i myself am customer service trained and qualified :lol: 
but more importantly, we are both human beings. 

i wouldn't want to see anyone upset with us or what we do, and would like to think that people can tell us if they do have a problem, rather than go slagging us off on other forums.. so we can deal with it! 

we can't help you out if we don't know what the problem is! 

and it would be nice if people would research animals before they bought them. know what they want, and buy accordingly... : victory:

sami


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## poizon (Jan 7, 2007)

tbh when i buy a reptile, i dont care if its a private breeder or from shop, as long as its healthy and been well looked after, thats all i'm worried about.

Thats the problem with this hobby tho, anyone can start a roumer about you, and once its started, thats it, your always gonna be tarnished.

Myself, i prefer to make my own mind up, if there evdience, then fair enough, if not, well after all isnt it supposed to be innosent until PROVEN guilty! I refuse to make judgments on hearsay alone.

Dont let them get you down, some people just have no lives


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

I personally advertised a timor python onhere that was a shop snake, as a favour to my mate, i never saw any problem in what i was doing, im with others if its healthy etc, who cares where its from/is:no1:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

silly silly rumours, hug! you have been so helpful and kind to me, lovely people!


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

people like that ned to get a life. who cares if its from a shop or from a breeder. anyone who buys reps should only care about its health.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Sami, Mason. I know that i've not bought anything from you but you both seem like very nice, passionate, knowledgeable people and I would have no qualms about buying from you (except my lack of money or i woulda had that Macklott's).

If you are or are not selling for a shop it doesn't bother me. Other shops sell on here and others on behalf of shops. I was under the impression you were running a shop from your lizard of oz stocklist post a while back.

Ah well, it's good that you've been honest with people in your sales and that you've come on here to try and sort things out. I hope people here continue to buy from/sell to you. I know I would


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

....and if you link me to where this was posted I'll happily add my two-penneth


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Well ... q-a .... I feel for you . i too have had one or two comments accusing me of being a shop or involved with a shop etc ... trying to drag prices down and stuff like that.... simply because i buy in bulk and add a fiver to a snake (even though i've paid £40 in petrol to collect!). 
You yourself know you've done nothing wrong so take heart from all the support you have received..... Like you have.
Some cynical ... small minded people may try to knock you down, but as you two know, your strong enough to stand upto them.
Keep up the good work:no1:


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

I've not had a problem with the snake I've had from you but can't say the same for the rodents purchased recently with my thoughts being PM'd to Sami with a non too satisfactory response and reason given in return.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Schip said:


> I've not had a problem with the snake I've had from you but can't say the same for the rodents purchased recently with my thoughts being PM'd to Sami with a non too satisfactory response and reason given in return.


I know you had a response from Sami...and i'm pretty sure we never heard anything back after that. How are we to know you were not satisfied with Sami's response unless you tell us?

As far as I know your issue with the rats you had from us was that they were mucky.

I apologise for that, it looked like a leaky water bottle was at fault. the rats were cleaned out about 2 days before you had them. It was also made clear from the word go that these rats were breeders (for food) and never pets. It has also always been our policy to not disturb any rodent at all when it has very young babies, this often leads to cage being smellier than your average pet rat cage. Still i'm sorry you felt unhappy with them.

I've no problem with people airing problems they had with us....rather that than the alternative.

Mason


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## Sueg65 (Aug 14, 2006)

If you had something we wanted and we were happy with the price and the health of the animal we would buy from you. I dont see any problem with it being from your own collection or from that of a shop or on behalf of someone you know. If all parties are happy then so be it, our main concern would be the health and condition of the animal. Dont let others get to you ....... life is too short.


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## carisma02uk (Sep 14, 2006)

freekygeeky said:


> silly silly rumours, hug! you have been so helpful and kind to me, lovely people!


well S&M you could be more helpfull and the next time you see them steal their camera.... so the rest of us csn win POTM:lol2:

yeah, people can ruin your rep in an instance....mason me and you both know this eh mate (remember the boa episode earlier this year..)
which it turns out...he is a central american pastel het for blood...:lol2:, hes not a very nice pastel granted but he came from a trusted american breeder and the original importer still has paperwork...

any way it take alot to recover for this sorta stuff but you two can do it. when i first met you i thought you were arrogant :lol2::lol2: but now in getting to know the pair of you i know you are not, just strongly opinionated, but this opinion is in the best interests of the animals....im not going to ramble on any more...put my bit in so there you go....:Na_Na_Na_Na:

JON>>


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## sarahssnakes (Feb 19, 2006)

i have had some things off Sami and Mason and i have nothing bad to say about either,really nice and helpful people and like what has been said before it shouldnt make any difference where the rep came from so long as it is ok health wise.
p.s my 2 rats and axoltol are all doing great the rats now have 5 other mates and a huge cage to play in.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I know you had a response from Sami...and i'm pretty sure we never heard anything back after that. How are we to know you were not satisfied with Sami's response unless you tell us?
> 
> As far as I know your issue with the rats you had from us was that they were mucky.
> 
> ...


That's good as if you disturb them when they have young babies it stresses the mother and they can eat the babies. I've seen this first-hand. It does lead to smelly dirty cages but is only for a short-while, so is common practice to leave them be


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Dirty cages for feeder rodents is part and parcel of breeding them, your best staying well clear of them once they have given birth and even though it does mean a dirtier cage than usual it is for the greater good of the critters.

Whilst we are Q&A'ing here, why do you share an account? Just curious :no1:


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Have to say I've been keeping and breeding livestock for over 40 yrs I KNOW what to expect in regard to conditions for most animals from our family farm and shoot to my own working dogs, Aviaries, cats, exhibition Angora Rabbits, mice, gerbils, hamsters, rats the list is endless and I've been successful breeding with all of them including some of the larger Macaws and more delicate Parrots. I have handreared most creatures form Kaid lambs down to parrots, kittens, puppies, rabbit kits etc.

You didn't hear anything more from me as I really didn't see the point as a leaky water bottle it was not, fact the water bottle was green with algae as you saw on the photo's there was barely any paper in the bottom of the cage as the photo shows. These female rats are due anytime no babies in with them 2 days prior to collection with them arriving at my house some 12 hrs after collection from you, like I said have no problem with the Hognose I had from you as I can sort them out when they're not feeding but I wouldn't have purchased the rodents if I'd seen them in the conditions they arrrived in.

















This was them after I'd cleaned them out and its still the same now with less smell too despite it being longer than 2 days since I cleaned them out. 








I have also had to take the male to the vets for an infection in his foot which is thankfully healing well as he's on 0.7ml of Baytril twice a day.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Having babies in the cage is no excuse for allowing any animal to literally paddle around in its own urine with ammonia burns on their feet!! Yes, they shouldn`t be disturbed too much, but these particular critters didn`t have babies with them anyway so again, no excuses. Those cages were disgusting, it wouldn`t have hurt to have at least put some clean bedding in. I`m sure Schip and myself can tell the difference between the non existant smell of water and the awful stench of mature rat pee! I saw the rats when they arrived and we were appalled!
So you want to clarify something? Can you please clarify how on earth these animals ended up in these conditions?


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

Thats a bit minging and not the bit of mess you'd expect from leaving feeder pets alone. Algea in the water is bad news and there's no excuse for it imo.


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## sw3an29 (Jul 13, 2007)

algae only come from water left standing for a long time so you cant of give them fresh water on a regular basis


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

I would also like to point out these animals I was told were not handled so you can imagine my trepidation at having to handle the male twice a day to administer his syringe of Baytril to ensure the females, who are very pregnant, don't get any as the vet wasn't sure of the risks to their pregancies.

Thankfully my experience has come good and now all 4 of them are happy to come for a bit to eat from my hand and a cuddle before I give him his meds, needless to say I think its a good thing the girls have got used to me being that close and touching them before they give birth.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Just for the information of non rodent breeders, here are my most filthy tanks......all with babies in so some, especially the first pic haven`t been fully cleaned for a lot longer than normal. Yes they stink, but at least their bedding is clean and deep enough to be absorbant.




























Spot the difference?
Yes the cages are generally dirtier than normal "pet" cages, but certainly not as bad as the ones schip purchased.


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## lampropeltis (Jun 21, 2007)

i had some mice babys a few weeks ago. but lost them due too cleaning them out.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

lampropeltis said:


> i had some mice babys a few weeks ago. but lost them due too cleaning them out.


But the rats didn`t have babies so there`s still no excuse for the conditions they arrived in.


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## sw3an29 (Jul 13, 2007)

i agree you cant clean mice or rats when they have babies but that no reason not to clean the water bottle and give them fresh drinking water


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## lampropeltis (Jun 21, 2007)

i sadly had no choice on cleaning them as i have a bad alergy to some woods especialy pine that mixed with the general amonia pong is unbearable. thinking of getting a rat or two in the next few weeks! but they will definately be going on hay/straw lol


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

lampropeltis said:


> i sadly had no choice on cleaning them as i have a bad alergy to some woods especialy pine that mixed with the general amonia pong is unbearable. thinking of getting a rat or two in the next few weeks! but they will definately be going on hay/straw lol


Yes, i love the chopped straw, its more flexible and smells better lol. I lost my first litter from one of my females so she`s now left well alone with her new babes. I feed, water and thats it for the next week. Luckily in my dirtiest cage, the babies are pretty grown on so i`m going to be giving it a good scrubbing!


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

just pure neglect av 11 rats in a huge cage as pets and thay dont make that mess in a month well you say it was a leakie water bottle fair enough why not change it why was it green but all the poo shows its not been changed in a while you should not be allowed to keep animals fair enough there feeders but would you sleep in your piss and poo no unless your a tramp i will be making sure this is reported you do know the rspca can get you put in jail for 5 years for that its just pure neglect 
just think the better you keep your feeders the better food your animals are getting dont want to see what your animals look like after that you stupid person

p.s get your own account saddo stop shareing


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Reporting to the RSPCA, what is that going to achieve.do you know the Op's personal address..i suspect not..thus they'd have no idea of where to start...they're not going to go round looking for them are they.


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

adamntitch said:


> just pure neglect av 11 rats in a huge cage as pets and thay dont make that mess in a month well you say it was a leakie water bottle fair enough why not change it why was it green but all the poo shows its not been changed in a while you should not be allowed to keep animals fair enough there feeders but would you sleep in your piss and poo no unless your a tramp i will be making sure this is reported you do know the rspca can get you put in jail for 5 years for that its just pure neglect
> just think the better you keep your feeders the better food your animals are getting dont want to see what your animals look like after that you stupid person
> 
> p.s get your own account saddo stop shareing


Grow up child seriously. Like your immature comment at the end NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! why not wait till they come back online when they can defend themselves instead of doing it whilst they are not here.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

no you silly lady but i am friends with spirt and can get the address that way and your just as sick sticking up for this stupid pewrson so dont talk unless spoken to you stupid idiot


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Erm, just to add i don`t know the address.....before i get jumped on, and tbh if i did i wouldn`t give it out....just to clarify!: victory:


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## sw3an29 (Jul 13, 2007)

is everyone in a mood tonight


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

can we keep the thread clean and to what it was intended, for people to give their views back to sami n mason, be they positive or negative.

Plus i'm pretty sure if the addy was given out to you that's illegal as they don't have the op's express permission to make the information public..not that spirit would do this of course.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> can we keep the thread clean and to what it was intended, for people to give their views back to sami n mason, be they positive or negative.
> 
> Plus i'm pretty sure if the addy was given out to you that's illegal as they don't have the op's express permission to make the information public..not that spirit would do this of course.


No, i know enough about legal issues to honestly say i wouldn`t give out any personal info, not that i know any.: victory:


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

adamntitch said:


> **deleted by t-bo**


 
Sorry, no need. Please don`t rant at me on MSN either.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

just to say delete my account on here and mandy delete my mobile number and msn thanks as your not worth my bother i stuck up for you but you dont bother to repay the favor


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

anger.


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

Well my own experience with Mason and Sami was top notch. I bought Dexter my Royal from them. He is strike feeding every time, as promised.
I get help on msn whenever I need it, and would certainly buy anything they were selling that I wanted.

You people need to remember that you aren't slagging off some words on a screen, but two human beings with feelings. Two really helpful ones at that!
When I went there Sami showed me all her pets and there wasn't one I thought was neglected in any way, shape or form.


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## WeThePeople (Jul 8, 2007)

EddieLizzard said:


> Well my own experience with Mason and Sami was top notch. I bought Dexter my Royal from them. He is strike feeding every time, as promised.
> I get help on msn whenever I need it, and would certainly buy anything they were selling that I wanted.
> 
> You people need to remember that you aren't slagging off some words on a screen, but two human beings with feelings. Two really helpful ones at that!
> When I went there Sami showed me all her pets and there wasn't one I thought was neglected in any way, shape or form.


I bow down to Mason's superior knowlege when it comes to everything cold blooded, he's the RFUK oracle and the one i trust most when dishing out information but there's a big difference between a leaky water bottle and one full of stagnet water - It clearly didnt get changed nearly as often as it was needed. No matter how much he knows, no matter how many good trades he has under his belt i think he has dropped a bollock with this one, there's no excuse for keeping those rats in those conditions imo.


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

I can't speak for Mason and Sami, so I don't know what happened in this case.
I was simply stating my experience, seeing as the pitchforks were out :lol2:


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

the rats were *NOT* kept in those conditions. when they left our house there was no standing water in the bottom at all.


We have had many, many forum users in our home including the rodent room.

As I said in the original response it looks like a leaky water bottle was to blame. when those rats left our house there was no standing water in there. Please lets not forget they had a journey in a transit van to a middle point and then another journey from there to your house. and please also remember that the plastic trays in the bottom of jenny rat cages do collect a bit of cack around the edges...empty a bottle of water in there and you soon have that nasty looking liquid we can see in the pictures. they don't get cleaned out as regularly as pet rats BUT they were cleaned out 2 days before we sold them. whatever happened in that cage happened very quickly.

The algea build up is/was caused by sunlight, our water bottles need cleaning every few days, water does not get left in a water bottle that size long enough to go stagnant, not on a jenny rat cage full of breeding rats. Daily water changes are a must simply because after 24 hours all the water is gone! Algae does not necessarily equal lack of water changes...they eat their babies if you don't provide water! It just means that the water bottle was not taken off and scrubbed, an oversight that I cannot apologise enough for.

The algea, no excuses, just did not have time to clean the bottle. The state of the cage....was not representative of how we keep our rats, anyone who has been round here or purchased rodents from us before will attest to that.

Adamntitch - we share an account because I am lazy, my own account is on it's way.

Mason


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

EddieLizzard said:


> Well my own experience with Mason and Sami was top notch. I bought Dexter my Royal from them. He is strike feeding every time, as promised.
> I get help on msn whenever I need it, and would certainly buy anything they were selling that I wanted.
> 
> You people need to remember that you aren't slagging off some words on a screen, but two human beings with feelings. Two really helpful ones at that!
> When I went there Sami showed me all her pets and there wasn't one I thought was neglected in any way, shape or form.


 
thank you, as I have said every single person who has ever SEEN our collection has never had any cause for concern.

Mason


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## lampropeltis (Jun 21, 2007)

ive never delt with sami and mason
ive noticed when reading threads they are always helpful
and the advice they give is usually exactly what i would of said

i got slated myself last week
over a missunderstanding
luckily a few good people that new me and often spoke to me put them right
(you know who you are and thanks again)

so please dont create a witch hunt im sure pm's would sort it

youd be suprised how detremental this could be for there rep

oh p.s. im not saying theyve done nothing wrong im just saying slating them aint the answer


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

lampropeltis said:


> so please dont create a witch hunt im sure pm's would sort it
> 
> youd be suprised how detremental this could be for there rep
> 
> oh p.s. im not saying theyve done nothing wrong im just saying slating them aint the answer


I created this thread with the intention of hopefully clearing the air with whoever is bad mouthing us via PM. I don't mind wheather it's done in public or via PM.

Now sure some people will see those photos and never want to deal with us again....whereas others will think...

"hang on they have sold hundreds of animals on here with barely any issues."

I've explained the rats as best I can, if people wish to get stuck on that issue that is fine, there is not much more I can really say about it.

Mason


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

adamntitch said:


> no you silly lady but i am friends with spirt and can get the address that way and your just as sick sticking up for this stupid pewrson so dont talk unless spoken to you stupid idiot


hmm take another guess kidda btw Im no Lady lmao. You can get the address from Spirit well looks like your plan just back fired I have no problems with Sami and Mason they are both sound and give good advice one mishap that is all and you jump on them like they have just killed someone and before you say again im sick no actually im not i just give people a chance. So if you dont have anything decent to say dont say it at all comprenday


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

For goodness sake behave the lot of you, remember some of us here are old enough to be your parents so aren't exactly short of experience. Mason with all due respect love there wasn't enough newspaper on the bottom of that cage for a day let alone 3 that it was when they arrived at my house, those photos were taken on arrival like all rodents rats chew and need to chew ergo I have them on layers of newspaper, then Carefresh and finally broken up egg cartons for them to chew. My guinea pigs outside have cleaner water bottles despite being exposed to sunlight all the time due to them living outdoors. Reason I didn't waste my time continuing the PM communication is simply your response showed you had no intention of sorting it out.

For those of you like me who have allergies then try the carefresh substrate as it takes the smell of amonia away is recycled paper and expands. The animals love to chew it and make their own beds out of it, my gerbils disappear under a pile of it and can be kept without cleaning for wks if you really wanted to without smell or sign of defication. For the rats, rabbits, guinea pigs etc I use 'corners' put a bit of their droppings into one when first introduced and within a wk they use it all the time without mess everywhere else, you can then remove the corner for cleaning safe in the knowledge that the rest of the cage still has their scent on it and feels/smells like home to the occupants, thereby reducing the risk of a 'fear kill' of newborns.

Buy Supreme Science Carefresh Pet Bedding 10l at BizRate UK


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Schip could i just ask did you take the rats on as pets?


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Not at all - I'm a farmers daughter love but still expect to keep my animals in the best conditions I can provide for them with the best life before they're slaughter be they cattle or rodents they're feeder animals but still deserve to have a happy life all the same.

I've eaten lambs that I've handreared, my own geese, ducks, chickens, pheasants as well as rabbits which I feed to my dogs as part of their BARF diet. I also expect to be able to handle all my animals to prevent stress induced death when they need medical treatment especially with the parrots a greenwing macaw dropping down dead in your hand when your worming it ain't no joke.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Schip said:


> For goodness sake behave the lot of you, remember some of us here are old enough to be your parents so aren't exactly short of experience. Mason with all due respect love there wasn't enough newspaper on the bottom of that cage for a day let alone 3 that it was when they arrived at my house, those photos were taken on arrival like all rodents rats chew and need to chew ergo I have them on layers of newspaper, then Carefresh and finally broken up egg cartons for them to chew. My guinea pigs outside have cleaner water bottles despite being exposed to sunlight all the time due to them living outdoors. Reason I didn't waste my time continuing the PM communication is simply your response showed you had no intention of sorting it out.


All I can say is that cage did not leave our house looking like that...I'm not sure what we could have done TBH? If you contact the guy that collected them for you he should certainly be able to confirm that the cage wasn't sloshing when we carried it down our stairs (i'd have got covered if it was) put it in our front room, had a chat and then loaded it into his transit. It took some 'persuading' to fit in the back seats so that much liquid in the cage would have been obvious.

the water bottle I can only apologise for, all I can say is those rodents never wanted for fresh water but the cage certainly did not leave our house like that. I really can't say any more. other than to apologise again.

Mason


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

No one said it was a joke, But what you must understand is that they were on a 12 hour journey. There stress levels would of been through the roof. Fair enough you handle all your animals feeders or not. But for crying out loud its one simple mistake and its been rectified by yourself. I love fresh Lambs tastes the best lol 

**EDIT**

Forgot to add

If Mason is saying they didnt leave their house in that state then I believe them anything could of happened during transport.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

"a greenwing macaw dropping down dead in your hand when your worming it ain't no joke."

Re read that Diablo I was talking about a Macaw which at the time I was breeding them came in just shy of £2k per bird hence the its no joke comment.

My replies are in response to others comments re me and my expectations/experience etc. so please refrain from the "But for crying out loud" sort of comments especially when I'm replying to your question! 

Mason he text me once he'd collected them and told me I'd not be happy and he was right. Again this post is a response to clarify what happend, I will say yet again I have no issues with the hognose which is why I was shocked at the rats conditions.


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Fair enough Macaws are expensive but thats the risks you take when dealing with livestock. At least he was honest with you saying you would not be happy he could of been a right A hole and said not my problem etc etc. The main question is are you happy with your new feeder rodents?


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## punky_jen (Feb 22, 2007)

To be honest feeder cages dont get that bad really, you can see when mom is gona pop, so jsut clean them then, leve them a week after they pups are born, are clean around the nest, thats what i do anyways.

I dont know they full story with this, but Mason and Sami have always been really good people, and care alot about their animals.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Schip;860646Mason he text me once he'd collected them and told me I'd not be happy and he was right. Again this post is a response to clarify what happend said:


> did he say what you'd not be happy with? Because like I said I can 100& guarantee that the bottom of that cage was not running with liquid when it left.
> 
> I'll have a chat with him later on.
> 
> ...


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

I am surprised one dirty cage has become such a big issue.. I know for a fact there are other people on this forum that keep their animals in worse/smaller/dirtier conditions than Mason and Sami beause I have seen a good few peoples collections, including M&S's.


On a different note: Constructive criticism is fine, but if I see anyone launching into personal attacks using foul language again they can expect an infraction and possibly a little vacation from the forum!


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Thats the thing pendlehog its all about a rat cage which had a bit of wee in it. whos M&S lol **EDIT** Never mind its just clicked lol Mason And Sami lol I think i need to go back to bed  lol


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

adlock:


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Line drawn:lol2:

__________________________

Enough info has been given by both sides to now make our own personal decision. I`m sure the people involved can now continue to discuss matters privately if they wish to.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

this thread isn't all about a rat cage...it's just schip has been the only person to come forward and say "I have a problem"

the purpose of this thread was to try and figure out who is sending pm's telling people how bad we are, why and to try and resolve it.

They obviously have no intention of doing so either publically or privately.

I have no problem with schip and i'm sure that they don't have an issue with us (hopefully). It has at least put my mind at ease a bit, at least I know that if someone is sending these PM's then (judging by this) the vast majority of people would ignore it.

At least now we know that there isn't some huge hidden undercurrent of hate for us on here 

Mason


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## lampropeltis (Jun 21, 2007)

my theory is that some people envy those who are respected as knowledgeable herpers (which in my eyes you pair are)
and quite often the accusations and rumors have no substance
the problem is its not easily ignored and others sometimes jump straight on the band waggon before discovering the facts
and by the time the people who know the facts set them straight the damage is done
its all about jelousy and im cock of this walk ect
and is sadly proberbly the biggest problem with our hobby/passion at the moment


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> this thread isn't all about a rat cage...it's just schip has been the only person to come forward and say "I have a problem"
> 
> the purpose of this thread was to try and figure out who is sending pm's telling people how bad we are, why and to try and resolve it.
> 
> ...


Well said  I think there might be undercover of hate for me tho lol


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

Been reading through all these posts, thinks some awful things have been said, its like an old fashioned witch hunt!
Cheers,
Mark.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

markandwend said:


> Been reading through all these posts, thinks some awful things have been said, its like an old fashioned witch hunt!
> Cheers,
> Mark.


 
Nobody has, as yet, turned up to burn me 

All is well 

I am a very hard person to upset/offend. 

Mason


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> "I would also like to point out that we have only ever had two complaints, both relating to a group of dart frogs. To my knowledge all of our other customers have been satisfied."
> 
> 
> 
> "I would ask whoever thinks differently, whoever thinks any of this is a lie or an attempt to mislead to either post here or PM me or both."


Its hardly a witch hunt when the original poster did actually ask for issues to be raised here? So in fact we are responding as requested.
It also points out that in fact more than 2 complaints have been made and its not just dart frogs.

Anyway, move on eh?:lol2:


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

Sorry, that was supposed to be a double quote and wasn`t aimed at Sami or Mason....just stating facts: victory:


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Nobody has, as yet, turned up to burn me
> 
> All is well
> 
> ...












j/k


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

adamntitch said:


> just pure neglect av 11 rats in a huge cage as pets and thay dont make that mess in a month well you say it was a leakie water bottle fair enough why not change it why was it green but all the poo shows its not been changed in a while you should not be allowed to keep animals fair enough there feeders but would you sleep in your piss and poo no unless your a tramp i will be making sure this is reported you do know the rspca can get you put in jail for 5 years for that its just pure neglect
> just think the better you keep your feeders the better food your animals are getting dont want to see what your animals look like after that you stupid person
> 
> p.s get your own account saddo stop shareing


 
i am sorry but you can tell the bottom of the cage is from the water leaking and the paper gettign mushed up with four rats, i can prsonally say i saw all QA's rats on Sunday as i went to collect some Gerbils of them, all there animals where clean and there was no smell in the room what there would have been if there were "neglicting " there animals. 

and as for the _boy_ i have quoted above, th RSPCA would not have a problem with sami and masons rats, that isnt neglect trust me if you had seen some of the things i have like the poor savy monitor i got in last night that was so weak it couldnt lift its head up THAT is neglect, and sadly i was to late to save him.Maybe learn some manners instead of been nasty there was no need for it i hate nasty people who just jump on the band wagging without even getting to know all the facts and Rats poo alot you know! you cant be in there every second of every day picking up there poo!

anyway as Sami and Mason said this thread wasnt about rat cage but i just had to post as if that had been me you all where posting about (and i dont mean everythone) i would have been very hurt and upset!!

anyway i would be very happy to buy rodents/reps.whatever of you two again

Chins up
Clare xxxxx


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

I think after that rant adamntitch should make a public apology, or just leave/be banned.


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

EddieLizzard said:


> I think after that rant adamntitch should make a public apology, or just leave/be banned.


Think its to late for an aology tonight he will be in bed as id guess hes at nursary in the morning!!!


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

omg sami n masons house are like my second home atm if im not here im there lol

call me biased or what ever you want but i have never been around there and anything not have water or clean bedding. if sami isnt playing with her geckos then mason has got the retic out whilst some one is cleaning it out, whether it be me, luke or sami. lol 

just had 2 have my say

daniel


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

i have just pmed masion to say am sorry and i was very out of order i never read the facts and am realy sorry about what i have said i am sorry for my posts


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

well, i think quioxtic_axolotl is a class act!:no1:


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

Well at least adamntitch has said sorry, its not often people say sorry on here when they are in the wrong.
Cheers,
Mark.


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## This is my Clone (Jul 8, 2007)

Yeah, an public apology was the way forward.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I also have to agree with the majority here.

I met Sami and Mason because I was getting a baby rat from them in exchange for some multis - and taking two other rats to Bosshogg.

All three rats were in excellent condition when I got them, Mason and Sami are thoughtful keepers and knowledgeable too. 

Not to mention having seen the both of them at each Doncaster show since.

I would have no hesitation to buying anything from them that I wanted - though I might personally prefer to buy their OWN stock rather than asking after shop stock  

One day I'm going to have to try to make it closer to their home than Sheffield!


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

adamntitch...


Apology accepted and thank you. It takes a small person to rip someone to bits over the internet but a much bigger one to apologise. Forget all about it. Thank you for the PM also.


@others thanks you 

Mason


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## NicolaMe (Nov 2, 2006)

Wow, this thread took a twist since i put my twopenneth in.:grin1:


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## tazzyasb (May 4, 2005)

lampropeltis said:


> my theory is that some people envy those who are respected as knowledgeable herpers (which in my eyes you pair are)
> and quite often the accusations and rumors have no substance
> the problem is its not easily ignored and others sometimes jump straight on the band waggon before discovering the facts
> and by the time the people who know the facts set them straight the damage is done
> ...


 
you have got it in one there mate.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think that it is a disgrace the way some pepole have tried their damdest to tarnish Sami and Mason's reputation here.

They have sold, no doubt, hundreds of rodents and reptiles since they joined here and to have only 2 or 3 people with qualms is bloomin wonderful I reckon. My local shop has more complaints in a week than that!

I would be very wary of buying form some people here but I can say I woul dhave no problems whatsoever buying from them - their repuutation of being excellent keepers and thier after sales advice and contact appear second to none.

With all due respect also Schip - do oyu have photos of the rats cage whenit was first picked up BEFORE it did a however long journey to you? this is in no way a "dig" of any type to you but just someone saying "you won't be happy" is not really a justifiable reason to disregard the journey the cage and rats undertook to get to you. A lot of mess and spillages can occur int he bakc of a tranny van!

Forgott o add nice one Adamntitch for apologising too - take a lot to admit oyu are wrong


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## Clones (May 5, 2007)

I havent read all the 10 pages of this thread as i have only just found it but i can say without reading it that i have got a fair few animals from sami and mason now and i first knew them through buying animals from them. 

I have been round to their house to collect many diffrent things including rats and mice, which i collected just weeks before the ones they dropped off where the water bottle leaked, i saw(and handled some of)all those rodents from hamsters to spiny mice to rats and they were all in clean cages with fresh bedding, well fed and watered. So there is no question they were being well kept and it was just spilled water that caused 1 person to make a fuss, i wouldnt of been handling them all if they wernt kept nice and clean.
Aswell as being in perfect health when i picked them up they were also amazingly tame from the start, both the rats and mice have bred for me already with all mothers and babies happy and well.

I will be going round to see them again shortly as i have become freinds with them since meeting as they are both nice people who love their animals, if i had ever seen anything in the way of animals not being well kept i would have firstly taken the animal and then i would not be going back nor would i call them freinds.

I look forward to seeing your collection again soon, especially the new arrival.


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