# Help on stocking 110 litre



## Sjames (Apr 8, 2013)

I've set up a 110 litre tropical live planted tank I've cycled the tank and now keep changing my mind on what to keep in it! 
Thinking either 
Neon tetra or dwarf neon rainbow for the top/middle 
Just not sure on what else any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks Scott


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Sjames said:


> I've set up a 110 litre tropical live planted tank I've cycled the tank and now keep changing my mind on what to keep in it!
> Thinking either
> Neon tetra or dwarf neon rainbow for the top/middle
> Just not sure on what else any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> ...


Cardinal or rummy nose tetras- rummy noses shoal all the time, neons & cardinals only do so for a couple of hours at dawn, midday & dusk (personal observation of cardinals in my tank over around 5 years). Or a shoal of each!. A mix of Corydoras catfish (a pair each of 2-3 species), a bristlenose plec to keep any algae under control. A pair of dwarf cichlids of some kind, 1-2 pairs of pearl gouramis for the surface.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Also for what it's worth ..
My shoal of 12 Neons stay in the bottom third ....


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Danios ( Zebras , Pearl and Leopard ) all stay mainly top third in my experience ..


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## herper147 (Feb 7, 2009)

I got two tanks of a similar size and one with a pair of Kribensis, rummynose and cardinals. The other has a pair of Bolivian rams, cardinals, panda Cory, a bamboo shrimp, amano shrimps and a few cardinals that weren't doing too well with the kribs.

But kribs are a dodgy fish, mine are best of friends one minute and breed but then want to tear each others throats out the next so its really dodgy sometimes and might be best to have a second tank you can move one into if things get too bad. But they are the most interesting fish I have ever kept, watching them interact and prepare for breeding is one of most fun I've had with fish.

I like tanks that have a couple feature fish and then just dithers


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> Also for what it's worth ..
> My shoal of 12 Neons stay in the bottom third ....


This. Do yours do the disperse until dawn/midday/dusk & then shoal for an hour or two thing, like cardinals do?



Zincubus said:


> Danios ( Zebras , Pearl and Leopard ) all stay mainly top third in my experience ..


Also this.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> This. Do yours do the disperse until dawn/midday/dusk & then shoal for an hour or two thing, like cardinals do?
> 
> Also this.



Can't say I've noticed that to be honest ... I've got too many other distractions though ...


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

wilkinss77 said:


> Cardinal or rummy nose tetras- rummy noses shoal all the time, neons & cardinals only do so for a couple of hours at dawn, midday & dusk (personal observation of cardinals in my tank over around 5 years). Or a shoal of each!. A mix of Corydoras catfish (a pair each of 2-3 species), a bristlenose plec to keep any algae under control. A pair of dwarf cichlids of some kind, 1-2 pairs of pearl gouramis for the surface.


I hate to be 'that guy' but keeping a mixed group of Corydoras isn't healthy. Whilst yes they interact with each other and form a shoal this is more for the protection aspect they need and would prefer to be kept in a shoal of their own species in groups of around 10 or more. 

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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

What are your water parameters?

pH, GH, KH, and temperature for stocking advice and ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels can be helpful.

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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> Cardinal or rummy nose tetras- rummy noses shoal all the time, neons & cardinals only do so for a couple of hours at dawn, midday & dusk (personal observation of cardinals in my tank over around 5 years). Or a shoal of each!. A mix of Corydoras catfish (a pair each of 2-3 species), a bristlenose plec to keep any algae under control. A pair of dwarf cichlids of some kind, 1-2 pairs of pearl gouramis for the surface.




As regards having a pair of dwarf cichlids .... I'd suggest a pair /trio of Ram Cichlids who are smaller than Kribs and very colourful 365 and not just at breeding time ..... Plus they don't have those violent mood swings


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## Sjames (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks guys lots of good choice there! Keep changing my mind like no tomorrow!
Ammonia is 0
PH 7.5
Nitrite is 0 
Nitrate is 25
Looking to have the temperature between 26-28 all depends on what I get really!
Cardinal tetra is looking likely the shoal I want just not sure what I want on the bigger centre fish swing towards a pair of Cichlids.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...ved=0ahUKEwiK1-HF64PKAhVBkQ8KHfkaBhIQ_AUIBygB

Ram Dwarf Cichlids .... Very sociable , mid to lower levels , only get a little over 2" long .... My last pair a few months ago cost only £5 but they're usually about £4 each around here

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mikrogeophagus-ramrirezi-pair.jpg


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Last contribution 

These Ghost Catfish are amazing ..... Max out at about 3" and they're so unbelievable eye catching and interesting ... Need at least 3 for security , mine hang out together in the quieter areas until the food comes 

Very , very gentle and endearing ....

http://i51.tinypic.com/qq305c.png

http://blog.berlin.bard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Awesomely-creepy-ghost-catfish1.jpg


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Sjames said:


> Thanks guys lots of good choice there! Keep changing my mind like no tomorrow!
> Ammonia is 0
> PH 7.5
> Nitrite is 0
> ...


What is your GH and KH? If you don't know these a (liquid) test kit will be essential as pH on its own is not that useful.

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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> As regards having a pair of dwarf cichlids .... I'd suggest a pair /trio of Ram Cichlids who are smaller than Kribs and very colourful 365 and not just at breeding time ..... Plus they don't have those violent mood swings


They can however, be very delicate & are water-fussy.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> They can however, be very delicate & are water-fussy.



That WAS certainly a factor for many years but these recent ones , local bred - seem to be bomb proof ...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> That WAS certainly a factor for many years but these recent ones , local bred - seem to be bomb proof ...


Where can you get the new hardy ones, & will they live in South East hard water?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> Where can you get the new hardy ones, & will they live in South East hard water?



That's a good point .... We're in the NorthWest / Manchester way and the latest ones I got have done marvellously well compared to the ones I used to get ten years ago .... I presumed they were local captive bred for some reason but I do recall getting them out of a newly stocked tank with literally hundreds of young Rams all in marvellous condition ...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> That's a good point .... We're in the NorthWest / Manchester way and the latest ones I got have done marvellously well compared to the ones I used to get ten years ago .... I presumed they were local captive bred for some reason but I do recall getting them out of a newly stocked tank with literally hundreds of young Rams all in marvellous condition ...


What are the tap water conditions up there?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Soft , very soft .


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Zincubus said:


> Soft , very soft .


Ah. those are ideal conditions for rams. Down here it's pH 7.5 & very hard- cardinals & rummy noses don't seem to mind it, but i dunno about rams, unless there are hard water tolerant strains as per German bred hard water tolerant discus.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> Ah. those are ideal conditions for rams. Down here it's pH 7.5 & very hard- cardinals & rummy noses don't seem to mind it, but i dunno about rams, unless there are hard water tolerant strains as per German bred hard water tolerant discus.



Yeah , it's quite possible these days ...

Going on a tangent .... One of our local fish store is in direct competitor on with Pets at Home and they've taken a bad route .

I'd say about 80% of the tanks are full of weird morphs ( is that the right word ) So the Zebras are long finned as are the Rams , there are also short stumpy , Electric blue Rams at £18.95 each . Ugly and can't swim properly . They have long finned barbs and even veil-tailed albino Bristlenise plecs !! 

Plus morphs of just about every other species . Even the Neons are a kinda washed out version ( why would you breed them pink rather than red ) ??


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Why is there a need to keep fish in unatural water conditions? If you want soft water fish use soft water and if you want hard water fish use hard water.

Being bred in the incorrect water doesn't make them happy in it and definitely doesn't change what water conditions they need-evolution has decided that.

Also im quite confused about how advice about species to consider is being given without any relevant information on the water parameters. It must be especially confusing for the OP as some of the fish mentioned don't do well together for various reasons. 

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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Why is there a need to keep fish in unatural water conditions? If you want soft water fish use soft water and if you want hard water fish use hard water.*
> 
> Being bred in the incorrect water doesn't make them happy in it and definitely doesn't change what water conditions they need-evolution has decided that.
> 
> ...


* Easier said than done in many cases, & in my experience changing the hardness & pH of local tapwater becomes a tedious chore, which a hobby should never be.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Perhaps but if you don't have the water for a species don't try to keep it and certainly it isnt fair to recommend species that may not suit the OP without knowing what water he has.

I use either rainwater (soft, acidic) or tapwater (in my case fairly hard and alkaline) to get the parameters I need. I would love to keep some very hardwater species such as some of the African cichlids but I dont have the correct water available therefore I won't condemn them to an early death in the incorrect water for the sake of a hobby. 

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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Perhaps but if you don't have the water for a species don't try to keep it and certainly it isnt fair to recommend species that may not suit the OP without knowing what water he has.
> 
> I use either rainwater (soft, acidic) or tapwater (in my case fairly hard and alkaline) to get the parameters I need. I would love to keep some very hardwater species such as some of the African cichlids but I dont have the correct water available therefore I won't condemn them to an early death in the incorrect water for the sake of a hobby.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


Well this pontificating is all well but we were simply throwing a few suggestions out there based on our past experiences ...after that its clearly up to the guy to research the individual fish needs and requirements .. 

As regards keeping some African cichlids being an issue .
I managed to keep a huge tankful of thriving Lake Malawis , for many years ... It's simply enough to get the correct water conditions , ph and hardness using additives and Tufa rock or whatever and I'm just a basic simpleton


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Yes fair enough its just most new fishkeepers don't research fish and just take a 'pick and mix' approach to stocking a tank.

Its the water I would struggle with. I can't get an R.O filter and im not keen on the idea of reminerlising either.

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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm just interested in knowing why you can't get an RO unit?


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## Sjames (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks the advice guys! Don't worry this isn't my first tank! Part of the fun for me is the researching! It's how I get the most enjoyment out of my reptiles I keep! I've been planning this tank for about 6 months just can't seem to work out what I want and what's suitable.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

You might want to look here for inspiration, they quite often have fish you don't normally come across. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/kesgravetropicals/

I bought my dwarf puffer from them and I know of other happy customers.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Yeah , just as I thought to be honest as regards you researching .... 

I've been keeping fish since I was a young lad ( 57 now ) and my fave fish haven't changed much from the old days .... funny how my tastes don't seem to alter over the decades .... Neons , Rams , dwarf Plecs , Empora Tets , Ghost / Glass catfish etc etc .


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Yes fair enough its just most new fishkeepers don't research fish and just take a 'pick and mix' approach to stocking a tank.
> 
> Its the water I would struggle with. I can't get an R.O filter and im not keen on the idea of reminerlising either.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


Using R.O water would mean even softer, neutral pH water & therefore even less suitable for Rift Lake cichlids. Btw, they don't need extremes of hardness & pH- that's a myth, at least where Malawi cichlids are concerned. If the water has a pH above 7.5 & reasonably hard, they'll be fine. & coral sand mixed in with the gravel & a 'lake reef' of tufa rock will keep it that way.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

_simon_ said:


> I'm just interested in knowing why you can't get an RO unit?


My parents limit wouldn't extend to me getting plumbing done to install one.

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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

wilkinss77 said:


> Using R.O water would mean even softer, neutral pH water & therefore even less suitable for Rift Lake cichlids. Btw, they don't need extremes of hardness & pH- that's a myth, at least where Malawi cichlids are concerned. If the water has a pH above 7.5 & reasonably hard, they'll be fine. & coral sand mixed in with the gravel & a 'lake reef' of tufa rock will keep it that way.


Remineralised R.O water  is what I was refering to.

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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Remineralised R.O water  is what I was refering to.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


In that case from your description of your tapwater, you should be able to keep Malawi cichlids. They only need the water moderately hard with a pH above 7.5.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

pH 7.6, GH 10 KH 10 would this work?



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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> pH 7.6, GH 10 KH 10 would this work?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


That would be ideal! Mix coral sand in with gravel (don't use the sand on its own, as the pale colour will wash out the colours of the fish) & use tufa rock for the lake reef structure- both of these will buffer the pH & hardness of the water.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

FishForLife2001 said:


> My parents limit wouldn't extend to me getting plumbing done to install one.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


If needs be you can connect RO units to a tap.

Example: RO unit install - Page 2

It is however very easy to permanently plumb in an RO unit if your parents agreed. It only costs a bit for some copper pipe, pipe cutter and some compression fittings. Just don't waste time buying a self cutting tap, the hole they cut is tiny.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Ok thanks for the help all and sorry to OP for going slightly off topic.

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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

experiment... at 14' you need to experiment...:no1:: victory:


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## Sjames (Apr 8, 2013)

No worries, I'm all for good conversation!


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

HABU said:


> experiment... at 14' you need to experiment...:no1:: victory:


14 ....... I presumed he was in his sixties with the verbal lashing he gave out ...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Zincubus said:


> 14 ....... I presumed he was in his sixties with the verbal lashing he gave out ...


that's what 14 year old children do... then older, wiser folks teach them...

he's at least potty trained, can read and is asking...


:2thumb:


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

The blatant ageist attitude you both have is reason enough to not waste my time trying to discuss anything in a reasonable manner with you but im not idiotic enough to resort to irrelevant points, age, when someone doesnt share my views on something.

I had hoped that we could have a sensible discussion but as usual on RFUK some members seem to think they are superior and more mature then they clearly are. (though thanks to wilkinss77 for being the only one to not start personal insults and actually have a mature debate).



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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

FishForLife2001 said:


> The blatant ageist attitude you both have is reason enough to not waste my time trying to discuss anything in a reasonable manner with you but im not idiotic enough to resort to irrelevant points, age, when someone doesnt share my views on something.
> 
> I had hoped that we could have a sensible discussion but as usual on RFUK some members seem to think they are superior and more mature then they clearly are. (though thanks to wilkinss77 for being the only one to not start personal insults and actually have a mature debate).
> 
> ...


Well to be fair , when I'd finally grown tired of your infantile spouting and retaliated in post 26 ( 23 hours ago ) I had no idea WHATSOEVER that you were simply a child - even though the signs were there in your posts . Funnily enough at 14 my display fish were piranhas when everyone else had a goldfish ... 

It's only a few hours ago someone mentioned that you were only 14 - if I'd have known before that - I'd have cut you a bit of slack ( maybe undeservedly as it happens ).

It's also mildly humorous that you praise Wilks for not throwing insults around whilst labelling the rest of us "idiotic" 




Maybe it would be worth looking at the way you post in the future - rather than criticising others who were just offering advice ...
You just came across as bolshy and above the crowd somewhat .

No hard feelings though .....life's too short .


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

What is 'infantile' about attempting to give, what I and many others view as correct advice? Most people prefer the water parameters first, fish options second way of giving advice. This does make more sense and eliminates the risk of the OP getting wrong information through bad websites and other sources.

Stop using age as a argument. It has absolutely not relevance here. I could say 'I had no idea you were simply an adult' however this would be completly irrelevant and depending on the context unfairly hostile especially since adults as a group are not a problem (likewise, nor are children or teenagers).

I don't need 'slack'. Maybe if you were able to have a sensible discussion slack wouldnt be needed and we could be discussing the actual point instead of my apparent 'infantile spouting'. Instead as soon as you learn of my age you seem to think my points are irrelevant and resort to insults. 

Yes, it absolutely is idiotic to use age in an debate about fish!

No thank you I will continue to post in the manner I do. I have not criticized anyone. I disagree with a certain point made so I commented on this hoping to start a dialogue which could influence either sides opinion and ultimately br beneficial to all involved.

I am intrigued as to how I appear that way, please use some actual references to back this up as I don't understand.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

> I am intrigued as to how I appear that way, please use some actual references to back this up as I don't understand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk



Na ..... I started my last post in a mood but mellowed somewhat as things moved on .... Now I'm not in any mood for more " interaction ".
Just read back your own posts and take notice of the tone ....

As I said , life's too short - move on .


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Sure I will move on as long as you talk to me as you would like talking to and don't discriminate me on my age again.

Now to relax setting my new tank up 

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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Sure I will move on as long as you talk to me as you would like talking to and don't discriminate me on my age again.
> 
> Now to relax setting my new tank up
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


What kind of set up?


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

30l, 45cm long softwater tank.

It has been setup as the neons don't do well with the somewhat boisterous pearl danios in my 100cm. I only have a trio right now as when their old tank began to leak the various tank changes and movements stressed the fish and neons don't seem to tolerate this well so most didn't make it unfortunately.

My 5 pygmy corys will be moved into here two and my trio of otocinclus which will be increased also. 

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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

FishForLife2001 said:


> The blatant ageist attitude you both have is reason enough to not waste my time trying to discuss anything in a reasonable manner with you but im not idiotic enough to resort to irrelevant points, age, when someone doesnt share my views on something.
> 
> I had hoped that we could have a sensible discussion but as usual on RFUK some members seem to think they are superior and more mature then they clearly are. (though thanks to wilkinss77 for being the only one to not start personal insults and actually have a mature debate).
> 
> ...


I haven't made any personal insults either! I just gave info on RO unit plumbing :|


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

_simon_ said:


> I haven't made any personal insults either! I just gave info on RO unit plumbing :|



Don't fan the flames again !

You're correct of course in what you say


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

_simon_ said:


> I haven't made any personal insults either! I just gave info on RO unit plumbing :|


Oh yeah sorry missed your post when writing that.

Stop trying to start another argument  

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