# Leo's - Giants and Super Giants



## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

Hi guys

yep......still trying to come to terms with genetics, so I will apologise in advance and hope your not thinking I'm becoming a pain in the arse :lol2:........anyway........

can someone just shed light on the way to produce giants and super giants in either a 1 or 2 year project if poss..........it throws me when i look at them for sale and it says het giant, or het super etc......will 2 hets for the same produce the desired offspring.......please help me out guys :blush:

cheers


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

"Het" Giant is exactly the same thing as Giant.

A Giant is a visual heterozygous animal for the giant gene. 

If you want to produce definite giants, get a Super Giant from two super giant parents - this will guarantee 100% giant offspring no matter what you breed it to, and breeding it to another giant or super giant will get super giants as well. 

That said, you've got to trust that the seller has genuine super giants to sell... and not just giants or big geckos.


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## blue-saphire (Oct 22, 2007)

im not an expert on this, though if its anything like ball pythons then i have a good idea of the subject so heres my opinion
giants are co-dominent therefore you can get hets, a giant can be produced by breeding a giant to a normal (only 1 gene is passed down) this is also how you get hets.
though you must watch as there not always 100% hets you may get 60% or something, meaning the genetic gene may not be in the animal. 
supers are formed when a giant and a giant or a super and a giant mate (2 genes are passed down, one from the mother and one from the father)
theirfore even if you purchase a super giant to a normal as only one parent has the gene you can only get giants.
hope this helps


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> "Het" Giant is exactly the same thing as Giant.
> 
> A Giant is a visual heterozygous animal for the giant gene.
> 
> ...


Ok, so just so I've read this right the following will produce

Super Giant x Giant = Super Giant
Super x Super = Super
Super x any other gecko, hypo, mack, normal, etc etc = Giant

Sorry for my dumbness :blush:

Thanks for helping out - it's appreciated :no1:


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## blue-saphire (Oct 22, 2007)

if giants top 100g, i wonder how much supers weigh lol


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## BG-Gecko (Nov 12, 2007)

Youre almost right:
Super Giant x Giant:
50% Giant
50% Super Giant
you were correct about the other two


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

BG-Gecko said:


> Youre almost right:
> Super Giant x Giant:
> 50% Giant
> 50% Super Giant
> you were correct about the other two


Thank-you


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

blue-saphire said:


> im not an expert on this, though if its anything like ball pythons then i have a good idea of the subject so heres my opinion
> giants are co-dominent therefore you can get hets, a giant can be produced by breeding a giant to a normal (only 1 gene is passed down) this is also how you get hets.
> though you must watch as there not always 100% hets you may get 60% or something, meaning the genetic gene may not be in the animal.


Not quite.

A heterozygous ("het") carrier of giant IS a visual giant.

You don't get 100% hets or 66% hets with codominant/incomplete dominant/dominant morphs - a morph carrier IS a morph or it isn't a carrier at all. 

However, what you don't know for sure with Giants until you grow them on a bit and see what their weights are like is whether you've got a het (Giant) or a homozygous (Super Giant).

Super Giants are in the 120-150gram range. I'd expect a Giant to be within the 90-120 gram range. I have a couple of large geckos who are around 85-95 grams at their pre-breeding weight... but as far as I am aware, they are not even possibly giants.

If you've got an SG over 150 grams, it's PROBABLY overweight... and that will significantly shorten its lifespan. Moose himself, the original supergiant, died recently - and he was nowhere near as old as a healthy male leopard gecko could expect to live. He also looked quite overweight in most of the photos I'd seen of him. What I would like to know is what exactly he died of - if it was organ failure, I'd be blaming his weight; if it was inconclusive I'd be questioning the morph.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

how do you knwo if you have a giant or just a big long gecko?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

If you have a giant, it will produce gangly, long-bodied hatchlings that grow rapidly and top out at 10+ inches in length; it may also produce normal-sized animals if it's not a "super" giant. 

It will also, comparatively, be longer and heavier than the typical "big male" - my two big boys are 85 grams at the moment, but they're still only nine inches or so from nose to tail. Moose, when he died, was just shy of 12 inches in length. And when he was three months old he was as heavy as a normal adult breeder female - 54 grams. 

I must admit all of this is 'regurgitated' from what I've read about them - I do not want nor will I keep giants for one reason.

Moose died young. He was only seven years old. I want to know WHY he died.


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## Herpinfested (Apr 24, 2007)

cant you contact ron and ask him?

He was constantly trying to break new records of leo weight with moose so i bet he was over feeding him.

Ive got a giant poss super giant, am i right in saying the only way to tell which one he is is by his weight once hes atleast a few years old? Shame theres no way to tell before then.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

i have read these threads with interest as we have got some young giants which we purchased a few months ago.

you guys are right about the giant weights,

"Super Giants are in the 120-150gram range. I'd expect a Giant to be within the 90-120 gram range."

However my understanding is that they have to have reached this weight AT 12 months of age to be classed as giant/super giant, as reptiles continue to put on weight well into adulthood, if they are a few years old and weigh 90 + grammes, they are just heavy (but normal!) leo's.

i would also like to know what moose died of, but i fear, like you, that ron was over feeding him to make sure he was the biggest gecko there was.

there again, if you look at large breed dogs for example, they are always shorter lived than more standard sized dogs, overweight or not they must have a lot more strain on the heart.

regards,


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## BG-Gecko (Nov 12, 2007)

Ive got one giant which is a genetically proven giant but because his previous owner hasnt fed him well he weighed 50 grams at 1 year of age :S
So if you know for sure that a leo is a giant you can in my opinion call it a giant even if he isnt over 90 grams because he has the genes which he can pass on to his babies wether he's plus 90 grams or not 
But if youre not sure then it's pretty hard to tell and it's indeed easiest to tell if he reached that weight in a year 
(My giant's now 80 grams btw and still gaining every week, he's now 16 months old so we hope he'll reach 100 some day that would be the double of his old weight )


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## Herpinfested (Apr 24, 2007)

Even if larger morphs have a shorter life expectancy moose only lived to 6 or 7, i dont think it was natural causes


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## melanie (Jan 18, 2007)

Giant Leopard Gecko Genetics

GIANT LEOPARD GECKO FAQ


rons page puts supergiants at being over 110g

also re. mooses death, one supergiant dying early does not mean there is a problem with the morph some times geckos and other animals just die and the reason cannot be explained unless there is a mass death rate of supergiants and giants in their early years it is wrong to say there is a problem with the morph.
personally i don't think a gecko will eat more than it wants to eat therefore do not believe in the over fed theroy, giants and supergiants are genetically proven to produce supergiant/giant offspring.

i'm sure if there was alot of deaths with this morph it would of been common knowledge by now!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

melanie said:


> personally i don't think a gecko will eat more than it wants to eat therefore do not believe in the over fed theroy


Don't you think he looks VERY overweight in the photos, with the 'scalloped' looking belly folds?


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## melanie (Jan 18, 2007)

they all seem to look like that and to be honest my one texan doesn't eat any more than my others and he is a 112 g and less than a year old


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