# What's everyone's view on these vivs??



## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm thinking of getting these in bulk. They seems pretty long term, clean, easy stacking and can be powerwashed clean! 

Euro Rep Ltd - Europes largest manufacturer and distributor of Reptile Products


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

herptek are amazing..especially good if you keep animals requiring a higher humidity. as with wood..well it doesnt take the strain too well n would need replacing after a couple of years.


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## evilangel (Jul 7, 2007)

*vivs*



Piraya1 said:


> I'm thinking of getting these in bulk. They seems pretty long term, clean, easy stacking and can be powerwashed clean!
> 
> Euro Rep Ltd - Europes largest manufacturer and distributor of Reptile Products


Having seen these in real life at a shop i can say these are great! The guy was keeping dwa species in them and he had few, although not particulary pleasing to the eye, the vivs served the purpose well and if i was to breed a lot of animals i would purchase these as they satck on top of each other.: victory:


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## leirus (Oct 27, 2007)

Looks good kit to me
Polyurethane too, will last well & not rot.
Most eurorep products seem very good:no1:


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Why are some of the models designed in such a way that you can't get a nice heat gradient? Most of us would place our heat source at one end of the viv to create a hot and cool end. But take a look at this;

Herptek - professional reptile housing

Why design a viv like this? Size wise that would be great for my emeralds and chondros, but a centrally placed heat source would give me a very poor heat gradient.

thanks

Stuart


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

I currently am using Herptek's and am continuing to replace my old vivs with them, they're not cheap but they're definately worth it.

I currently have 12 4 foot models.


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## Azazel777 (Mar 18, 2007)

personally i think visions and rhinos are designed alot better and you get alot more bang for your buck: victory:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Azazel777 said:


> personally i think visions and rhinos are designed alot better and you get alot more bang for your buck: victory:


How are Vision's designed better? Herptek bought the patents to make Vision's and basically changed the colour!

Rhino's are good, but in fairness they are expensive for what is essentially a solid plastic box with no fittings etc.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

So whats your take on the positioning of the heat vents on the herpteks as I pointed out in my previous post? A pretty major (and should have been an obvious!) design flaw if you ask me.

Stuart


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> How are Vision's designed better? Herptek bought the patents to make Vision's and basically changed the colour!
> 
> Rhino's are good, but in fairness they are expensive for what is essentially a solid plastic box with no fittings etc.


If that was the case why are the sizes and designs of herptek and vision diffrent? also why would vision still work with a european distrabutor based in italy if it had sold the rights to its moulds to a european manufacture?

Also as the cost of plastic like all oil based products is on the up and theres the costs of tooling witch for moulded products is massive and then the normal bills for electric, rent and rates and so on and then they also have to earn a living from it.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

essexchondro said:


> So whats your take on the positioning of the heat vents on the herpteks as I pointed out in my previous post? A pretty major (and should have been an obvious!) design flaw if you ask me.
> 
> Stuart


I do agree with what your saying there to some extent but the idea is the main bulb would be placed right at the back creating a grandient from front to back instead of left to right. Guess it must be working for the mount they sell. Also the new lower version is aimed more at heat mat use with the vent area for lighting.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Still seems a bit of an unusual type of gradient to try and establish. 

For my chondros and emeralds I would ovbiously have perches going from left to right, not front to back (as I wouldn't be able to fix them to the glass doors!), so a front to back heat gradient would be far from ideal. 

In any case, most vivs are longer than they are deep so this is the most obvious axis upon which to create a heat gradient as it allows for a better range of temperatures. I can't understand why they would want to go against the general convention when it appears to have no obvious benefits!?

Just seems a very strange design, thats all. Fair do's, they may sell well, but people often don't discover design flaws like this until after they've parted with their cash!

Stuart


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

I knew it would be these when i saw the thread title lmao...
I think there very expensive! very expensive would never think of buying them at the price! But have heard they are great. dont realy now how, penine are cheaper, what the diffrence!?​


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

they are great if you have the money.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

essexchondro said:


> Still seems a bit of an unusual type of gradient to try and establish.
> 
> For my chondros and emeralds I would ovbiously have perches going from left to right, not front to back (as I wouldn't be able to fix them to the glass doors!), so a front to back heat gradient would be far from ideal.


They are designed to utilise the old way of providing a thermal gradient. Arboreal boids allways used to have vertical and not horizontal gradients to try and replicate their natural behaviours more. 
A GTP (as an example) will move around trees horizontally in the wild but the temperature will stay the same, it is only when they vertically within the tree layers that the temperature changes (ie hotter up top with less leaves causing shade).


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

snakelover said:


> I knew it would be these when i saw the thread title lmao...​
> I think there very expensive! very expensive would never think of buying them at the price! But have heard they are great. dont realy now how, penine are cheaper, what the diffrence!?​


From what I understand the Herptek/Vision vivariums can be stacked... and Pennines really can't. They bow under their own weight (particularly if they have heating equipment in them) so I can hardly imagine what they'd be like with another viv on top of them.

Pennines are great for room-temperature or minimally heated animals - and only for the TOP of the viv stack


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Reticulatus, I'd be interested to know what data those statements regarding chondros in the wild are based upon. Temperature will often vary on a horizontal axis due to the uneven nature of foliage density and the way in which chondros can move in and out of shaded areas by moving along the horizontal plane. Also, the higher up the trees you go, generally speaking, the less dense the foliage. This combined with the increased breeze and wind chill factor often results in lower temps being felt at the canopy (certainly much more temp. fluctuation, anyway).

In captivity, a vertical gradient is no longer seen as ideal because the captive chondro will often head for the highest perch in the enclosure in order to feel secure. The need for security will often outweight the need to find a desirable temp and so the chondro often finds itself unable to regulate temps. adequately.

Also, the herptek model to which I was referring is clearly not oriented on a vertical axis (ie taller than it is long) so trying to create a vertical rather than horizontal heat gradient in such an enclosure seems a pretty difficult task which is bound to have inefficient results IMO.

Just seems like they have invited problems that need not have occured.

Stuart


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

essexchondro said:


> Reticulatus, I'd be interested to know what data those statements regarding chondros in the wild are based upon. Temperature will often vary on a horizontal axis due to the uneven nature of foliage density and the way in which chondros can move in and out of shaded areas by moving along the horizontal plane. Also, the higher up the trees you go, generally speaking, the less dense the foliage. This combined with the increased breeze and wind chill factor often results in lower temps being felt at the canopy (certainly much more temp. fluctuation, anyway).
> 
> In captivity, a vertical gradient is no longer seen as ideal because the captive chondro will often head for the highest perch in the enclosure in order to feel secure. The need for security will often outweight the need to find a desirable temp and so the chondro often finds itself unable to regulate temps. adequately.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what those statements are based on:lol2: It's just second hand information from someone i know that has more experience with these than you or I. That said i haven't spoken to him on this topic for some years so yeah, it probably has changed - as everything does whn it progresses.
Either way, the vertical method was accepted as *the* way to heat chondrs for years. This on top of the 2x2x2 size being used as a base size accepted for them led to the design of the viv you were referring to ( i know you weren't talking about the newer model). Don't forget these aren't new viv designs, they have been around for some considerable time now (long before the change in thoughts on gradient directions for chrondros).

While you may see it as a problem now, it was seen as "just the ticket" when originally released.


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## Phaedra (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't get it to be honest... I have ordinary wooden vivariums stacked on top of each other... cheaper, nicer looking and serve the same purpose.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

i have just bought a herptek for a GTP I will let you know how it goes I believe it is one with the fitting in the middle too. They look alot smarter than wooden vivs in my opinion and with higher humidity species should last alot longer than MDF. A herptek should last for years so will save you money in the long run.: victory:


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

essexchondro said:


> So whats your take on the positioning of the heat vents on the herpteks as I pointed out in my previous post? A pretty major (and should have been an obvious!) design flaw if you ask me.
> 
> Stuart


Only the small models have badly positioned vents, the larger models such as the ones I'm using, have them placed acorss the back, and the intrusion for a bulb/ceramic is on the left away from the vents.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

blood and guts said:


> If that was the case why are the sizes and designs of herptek and vision diffrent? also why would vision still work with a european distrabutor based in italy if it had sold the rights to its moulds to a european manufacture?
> 
> Also as the cost of plastic like all oil based products is on the up and theres the costs of tooling witch for moulded products is massive and then the normal bills for electric, rent and rates and so on and then they also have to earn a living from it.


They didn't sell the rights, Herptel simply bought the patents that produce the other bits that go together, patents are only locked for a limited time. 

They are very similar designs, just with tweaks to sizes etc. 
Visions are still produced by visionarium.us and as you say still have their italian distribution.

It's no different from Rhino Vivs ripping off the Boaphiles really.

i prefer Herptek's to other vivs as for species like Blood Pythons who require a good sized viv that will hold humidity and allow adequate ventilation and become easily stackable. 

They aren't needed for all species but I like to get things perfect.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Fair comment, Reticulatus, but even if we give herptek the benefit of the doubt and assume that the model was designed prior to the general shift away from providing vertical heat gradients in favour of a horizontal one, it is still a problematic design IMO.

Lets forget for a moment the debate between whether a horizontal gradient is better than a vertical one (or _vice versa)._ What we have here is a viv that's trying to produce a vertical gradient when its dimensions are more conducive to a horizontal one IMO.

Any heat gradient should surely be established over the longest axis of the viv so as to allow for the broadest range of temperatures. Thus, vivs that strive to establish a horizontal gradient should be longer/wider than they are tall, and vivs that strive for a vertical gradient should be taller than they are long/wide. What we have with this herptek model, however, is a viv that is longer/wider (60cm) than it is tall (50cm), and yet still seeks to establish a vertical gradient. 

Had this viv had the heat placement at one end so that a horizontal (as well as vertical, to be fair) gradient could have been established I would definitely have given it a go, but as it stands I just cant see how you'd get much of a gradient in there at all when it comes to arboreal biods. 

Just my thoughts

Stuart


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

essexchondro said:


> Fair comment, Reticulatus, but even if we give herptek the benefit of the doubt and assume that the model was designed prior to the general shift away from providing vertical heat gradients in favour of a horizontal one, it is still a problematic design IMO.
> 
> Lets forget for a moment the debate between whether a horizontal gradient is better than a vertical one (or _vice versa)._ What we have here is a viv that's trying to produce a vertical gradient when its dimensions are more conducive to a horizontal one IMO.
> 
> ...


The true arborel vivs they make have hating at one side. I have 2 of the bigger models for my Coastals.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Granted, the "arboreal" viv that they have does have the heating to one side, but again it is taller (100cm) than it is wide/long so in effect it is still oriented more towards providing a vertical gradient rather than a horizontal one. 

Stuart


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I didn't realise the centre placing of the opening to be honest when i bought mine. Wish I had though. I dont think I will struggle to get a decent gradient but it would be easier with it to one side.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Andy, if you've bought the model I'm referring to it is 60x60x50cm. The central placement of the heater means that you've only got a maximum of 30cm either side of the heat source. If you have a hot spot of 86-88F directly below the heater I don't see how you are going to be able to provide a suitable heat gradient on the horizontal plane because the cool end for chondros should be around 76-78F. I can't see how you will achieve a 10-12 degrees drop in temps over a 30cm distance. If you are thinking more in terms of providing a vertical gradient then we are back to my earlier comments about this not being ideal for chondros. A good summary of the benefits of the horizontal gradient as opposed to a vertical one can be found in "The More Complete Chondro" by Greg Maxwell.

I'll be interested to hear your temp recording from you set up.

cheers

Stuart


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I will let you know, worst case scenario I will just use a reptile radiator over to one side. :smile:


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

*RHINOVIVS - The ultimate vivarium*

I prefer Rhinovivs, for quality, design, and they can be stacked no problem. OK they - like all other plastic vivs, no matter what make, they are costly but lets face it, you but them once you have it for life! Anyhow whats more The guy who sells them is a teriiffic guy . Ok I am a bit biased as I do own rhino vivs! :lol2:
Alan









Rhinovivs


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## peterf (Jul 27, 2007)

*Tall Herptek cage heater placement*

The central position of the heating on the tall vivarium is simply a logistical issue. 
There isn't enough width to offset the heater.
In tall cages the heat would tend to sit in the top as it naturally rises. 
The tall Herpteks haven't enough space to offset the heater any where near enough to make any difference to the thermal gradient from left to right in the cage. 
All the wider Herpteks have heating at one end.


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

*Rhino Vivs- the Ultimate vivarium*

Joking apart. I have stated this before. I hear most people who keep aboreal species are not happy with vivs readily available. As I have said before to other folks who have enquired about aboreal vivs. I am willing to work with you with design, build to *YOUR *specifaction. however here is the crunch. If you are only talking about one or two vivs, then the price just get silly. The time spent setting up and making the jigs, and the time for my design efforts . However if there is approx atleast 6 orded then I can be very competetive. Remember also this will be bespoke design - WHAT YOU WANT! If any of you are seriouse about this contact me.
Alan
Rhinovivs


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

raptor1 said:


> I prefer Rhinovivs, for quality, design, and they can be stacked no problem. OK they - like all other plastic vivs, no matter what make, they are costly but lets face it, you but them once you have it for life! Anyhow whats more The guy who sells them is a teriiffic guy . Ok I am a bit biased as I do own rhino vivs! :lol2:


Well the last 2 sentences made me chuckle, don't know about anyone else :2thumb:


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

*Rhinivivs- The Ultimate vivarium*

He He- Just a wicked sense of humor .:whistling2:


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## JonnyEmm (Nov 2, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> From what I understand the Herptek/Vision vivariums can be stacked... and Pennines really can't. They bow under their own weight (particularly if they have heating equipment in them) so I can hardly imagine what they'd be like with another viv on top of them.
> 
> Pennines are great for room-temperature or minimally heated animals - and only for the TOP of the viv stack


 
Hi all,

I was particularly interested in this comment as I too have been looking at the Vision / Herptek tradeoffs. Im led to believe Vision vivs are not stackable when using lamps/cermamics in the built in holder, but herptek are.

Can anyone confirm this either way ?

Cheers,

Jonathan.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

JonnyEmm said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was particularly interested in this comment as I too have been looking at the Vision / Herptek tradeoffs. Im led to believe Vision vivs are not stackable when using lamps/cermamics in the built in holder, but herptek are.
> 
> ...


I am using Ceramics in Vision Vivs and they stack fine, aslong as you find a reflector that fits in the moulded holder that is. I have a double stack of these.

I also have Herptek's stacked but I'm using heatmats and still figuring out whether to bother with any lighting etc yet!


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

It's no different from Rhino Vivs ripping off the Boaphiles really.
Can you explain???


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

Btw that question is meant for Akua ko Nalu - Stewart. It has been brought to my attention by other usses of this forom (thanks)
We are intriqued on how you can make this bold satetment - You obviously have some good information to back this up?
and please dont say 
"Because there made out of plastic"
"Because they are black"
Because they look similar maybe? but then how would you have designed yours? 

Maybe these viv builders need telling off too - Guess what - yup there are made out of plastic too! ahhhhhh!!!!!

Custom Built Snake and Reptile Cages: Monster Cages
Constrictors Northwest
JungleHabitatsPlastics.com, Welcome!
Precision Caging
remember stewart - essentially all vivs are an box with a door.
As a cabinet maker for over 18 years, In the past upon designing my own furniture, i find out somewhere down the line something similar as all ready been done! 
If someone here in the UK started to sell copies/similar vivs to mine I would not be in the least upset about the design they are selling - like I said what else can they possibly do diffrent without adding to the expense.

www.rhinovivs


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

raptor1 said:


> Btw that question is meant for Akua ko Nalu - Stewart. It has been brought to my attention by other usses of this forom (thanks)
> We are intriqued on how you can make this bold satetment - You obviously have some good information to back this up?
> and please dont say
> "Because there made out of plastic"
> ...


 
It is because there made out of plastic, black and they look sim... oh wait, you said not to write that :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Just out of interest Rhino.. why are the vivs, in your opinion, made the way they are, with the heat source placed where it is? It is the only place they can be put without affectiong strength etc?


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

To be honest - tried and tested way- I only use heat mats- if it works dont try to fix it? On the other if you visit my web page - go to testermonials. Colin Claddell has been using AHS heaters in them with no adverse effects. He has been running them in his vivs for just on year now. Contact Colin via the link on my web page and he will tell you himself all if fine . I still prefer using heat mats and keeping an ambient tem of room temp to about 78 - 82. Incidentley do have a vision viv - did I really say that! Anyhow I find because it is a large viv (6ft) I find it very difficult to keep a constnat nice hot spot of around 90 due to the way it is heated (ceramic bulb) 
Anyhow if your at the IHS show Rodbaston - come on over and say hello!
Alan


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

raptor1 said:


> Btw that question is meant for Akua ko Nalu - Stewart. It has been brought to my attention by other usses of this forom (thanks)
> We are intriqued on how you can make this bold satetment - You obviously have some good information to back this up?
> and please dont say
> "Because there made out of plastic"
> ...


First of all, it is by no means a dig at Rhino Vivs, I was simply comparing the design of Rhino's and Boaphiles with Herptek's and Vision's.

Practically the same.

Personally, I would have designed my vivs to take into account fittings/intrusions for different heating methods so that temperature gradients for a wide range of species can be maintained. Ease of cleaning, along with stackable and lightweight of course which most of them all are these days.

To be honest, I like the idea of drop-open doors on the Rhino's, they do allow easy cleaning etc where you can simply take a cloth and do both sides there and then, but after playing with a Rhino Viv I figured that the door wouldn't be strong enough to hold the Heavy Bodies snakes I keep.

Therefore I reverted to Glass sliding doors.

And with regards to the Boaphiles statement, I apologise it was badly worded, it should have read something like "Rhino Vivs being very similar if not the same as Boaphiles"


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

*Rhino Vivs.*

No Worries Dave, Its just that to be honest Marc Norrie of Selective Bred and Peter Rice of RTC all had input on designing these vivs with me, so I was just concerned with anyone thinking I mearly copied the Boaphile Vivs.
I have sent you a PM as there is something you may be very well intrested in...Something rhinovivs are launching this Sunday at Rodbaston..:whistling2:


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## JonnyEmm (Nov 2, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> I am using Ceramics in Vision Vivs and they stack fine, aslong as you find a reflector that fits in the moulded holder that is. I have a double stack of these.
> 
> I also have Herptek's stacked but I'm using heatmats and still figuring out whether to bother with any lighting etc yet!


Thanks for that,

Can you tell me where you have been buying your vision / herptek vivs from. Im presuming it's gonna be Euro rep for the latter but a vision supplier name would be good. Does anyone know anywhere where these vivs can actually be viewed before purchasing ?

Cheers,

Jonny.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

JonnyEmm said:


> Thanks for that,
> 
> Can you tell me where you have been buying your vision / herptek vivs from. Im presuming it's gonna be Euro rep for the latter but a vision supplier name would be good. Does anyone know anywhere where these vivs can actually be viewed before purchasing ?
> 
> ...


 
Visions are few and far between in the UK and I bought mine privately.
There is a European distributor in Italy, however try contacting Vision Products for shipping costs etc.

I got my Herptek's from Euro Rep as you say.
Other places now stock them, but we're on good terms with Euro-Rep so we went with them.


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

After seein the Rhino vivs today my next upgrades will be onto them definitely.


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