# Next Project



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

As I mentioned in some other threads, I plan to convert one of my aquariums. This one:-










As you can see, it's crying out to be converted! :lol2:

At the moment, I am thinking palludarium, with a shallow water area kept separate from the drainage under a false bottom. That way I can use my existing filter and external heater to run the water area, which will also control the temperature of the entire viv. I'll probably run the return from the filter down a drip wall that feeds into the water area.

The land area is going on a false bottom to allow me to run a trickle fall (like a water fall, but a trickle of water. lol) water feature. I've done a false bottom and water feature before, and it worked really well.

I've ordered 4mm twin wall polycarbonate to do the conversion on the top, it will fit under the existing top, under the LED light fixture. I've ordered 4mm top, bottom and side runners, along with 0.41mm stainless steel mesh that I will use to make top vents. I already have a huge unopened tube of Silurub AQ.

Now, here's the bit I need help with. The fact I'd like to do this as a palludarium, with shrimp in a shallow water area. Thing is though I want darts in there, in fact I was thinking of a large colony of vents, I really love the little fellas. Does anybody know if vents can coexist with water though like leucs can? If not I'll just scrap the palludarium plan, as I definitely want vents in there, they're so bold and beautiful, and will use the entire hight of this tank...

Oh yeah, I should probably mention the size of this baby.:whistling2: It's a 180litre aquarium, so 40 gallons. Base is octagonal, 60cms x 60cms, and it's over 70 cms tall when you include the canopy. :2thumb:

The filter I have on there is a JBL CrystalProfi e700, been an external it will work just as well to power water features as it will to filter 180 litres of water, not least as it has a built in flow control.:2thumb: Heater is a Hydor ETH200 external plumbed into the filter tubing. I'll probably hook this up to a thermostat though, and set the temp on it higher, as not much point controling the temp by the temp of the water when it's more the air temp that matters. :lol2:

I'll probably reuse most of the wood in there, it's Sumatra drift wood and perfect for an arboreal setup.

Can you tell I am excited about this?:jump:

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

hey buudy how are ya? CORRRR that is a lovely tank, ha it looks fab what you've done for fish let alone as a slice of rainforest ( i want to steal it :lol2 ha ha and i havent a clue about how the vents would do with water...not alot of help am i:whistling2: Though i cant wait to see how you go about this:2thumb: maybe post on a dutch site they do loads like this over there as you most likely already know


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I think I'll just play it safe and leave out the paludarium idea and stick with a false bottomed vivarium to be honest.

It's not worth the life of a frog just to have a few cheap shrimp at the front.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah it's screaming for a waterfall on the back, it can just trickle into some gravel at the back, cover that with leaf litter. Won't mix into your substrate that way.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

I hear ya mate ,though its ashame in away i love pals. always have since i saw i pic in a book when i was a kid used to call them aqua terrariums then (showing his age:blush mate how many vents are you thinking of in there?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Agreed Morgan, that's similar to how I did the water feature in my leuc viv, only that's a sort of stream and drip wall, and I didn't put any leaf litter on the gravel as it's the really big stuff.

This really should turn out a good one though. 

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> I hear ya mate ,though its ashame in away i love pals. always have since i saw i pic in a book when i was a kid used to call them aqua terrariums then (showing his age:blush mate how many vents are you thinking of in there?


That actually brings me to my next question, how many vents can safely be kept in a group in a viv of this size? lol

I obviously don't want to put a tiny number of them in such a big tank.

Ade


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## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

i used to keep and breed two pairs of vents in a 50x40x40 viv with great success so this will hold a few more than that, nice little waterfall coming down the back will look good,


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## stewie m (Sep 16, 2009)

nice tank be a nice project


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

richie.b said:


> i used to keep and breed two pairs of vents in a 50x40x40 viv with great success so this will hold a few more than that, nice little waterfall coming down the back will look good,


Looking at how many you kept, I am thinking perhaps 3 pairs. What you reckon? There's certain plenty of room in there for territories.:2thumb:

I know 6 little frogs doesn't sound like much, but I've seen how busy my pair on my rack are! They're always on the move, not at all shy. That's why I've chosen them. I know it's unusual to have the same species and morph in more than 1 viv, but I REALLY love those little vents!

I'm definitely going to use my filter to power the water fall. Much easier to plumb in, rather than trying to put a frog safe 'hatch' for a submersible pump. It should prolong the times between needing to change the water in the void as well, as it's a fully cycled filter, complete with sintered glass etc.

There's another thing I am going to need suggestions for, constructing the background and sides. My usual trick of pouring Gorilla glue onto the back with it lying flat, then putting substrate onto this, isn't an option with this monster! That isn't nice light 4mm glass there, it's 10mm glass! It also cost me nearly £500 just for the tank and cabinet, so it's not even coming off it's stand! To say it weighs a ton probably isn't an overstatement. So, need tips for construction methods that can be used on a vertical surface. I am actually thinking old school, cork bark and wood siliconed and clamped in place. Fits in with the arboreal theme as well. I've had some practice recently with planting into cork bark as well, both by boring holes and just using stainless steel paperclips. The areas on and around the waterfall I can cover with aquatic mosses. Any thoughts?

Hmmm, just had another idea. I recently used a piece of rounded cork bark to form a planter in one of my vivs. My idea is to do similar to form a shelf onto which water from the fall can trickle, before overflowing this and trickling down the sides of this into the gravel hidden under leaf litter.

There's TONS of branching wood in there already, so I'm not worried about it ending up looking 2 dimensional.

Oh, and we're going to leave the Bast statuette and Egyptian columns in there as well. So as I did when I scaped it as an aquarium it will be something a little different to the norm. I've got small submersible red LEDs in there as well that I am going to use. I know this possibly sounds tacky to you folks, but you'll see when it's finished that I figured out how to put it all together so that it's actually tasteful. : victory:

Got my old man coming over to give me a steady hand with the conversion bit. He can cut in straight lines and apply straight beads of silicone. :whistling2: Best explain before you think I have the DTs, I've actually got a slight disability that gives me quite a tremor. Tis great fun making coffee when it plays up! My hands end up looking like a dart frogs toes at dinner time....:lol2: Now you see why I went for polycarbonate rather than shattered slivers, I mean glass. :lol2:

I'm really looking forward to setting this baby up, especially planting it! I can imagine how many creeping ficus I can get into it.:2thumb: Probably terrace the land area as well, good old cork bark.:whistling2: Disguise the terracing by sloping the substrate, just use the terracing to reduce land slides.

Ade


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

Nice tank Ade will look lovely as a slice of rainforest. Vents do well in groups so you could have a fair few in there to be honest. How deep would the water be if you were to turn it in to a palludarium? I have got couple of inches at the front of my vanzolinii viv first time i seen one of them dive and disappear bellow the water i started to panic but the frog was fine i believe most of the stuff out there to do with darts drowning is usually stress related. 

Jezz


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi Jezza

Cheers mate. I reckon for the water to be actually usable it would have to be about 8 inches deep. I just had a look, and that eats into a fair chunk of the hight of the tank, which is a big part of the beauty of it. I can see it ending up looking really artificial upon consideration anyway as to look natural I'd need to simulate sloping the land into the water, I've seen paludariums where the line is very sudden, and although they are nice they don't look entirely natural to me. So I think I'm going to leave the paludarium idea alone and focus on it as a terrarium more. I'll still have 4 other aquariums anyway even after converting this one.

Interesting what you say about Vents doing well in groups, I've been reading around and most sources say the same. How many though would you say in a tank this size? Obviously I'm going to be limited by how many I can actually get hold of, but it would be nice to know rougly a limit. I'm used to just keeping pairs of frogs usually. lol

From my reading Jezza I would agree with you about the drowning thing. Most of the stories of drowning I have read the frogs have usually already been exhibiting signs of health problems, such as sitting for long period in water etc. I saw it happen with one of my original male Regina, he'd been spending a LOT of time sat in water, then one day I spotted him struggling to climb out of the deeper part. He didn't drown, but he did die a day or two later, probably from the combination of stress and internal parasites, as he had been eating like you wouldn't believe, but wasted away to nothing very very quickly. So yeah, I would definitely agree with you there.

Cheers

Ade


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

Hi Ade,

I think 3 pairs would be fine in that size tank, I am really tempted to have a go at a palludarium in the future but think it will have to wait until i move Mrs is going a bit nuts lately I have got 9 vivs in the lounge at the moment lol.
As for construction have you considered making the backing out of polystyrene?
I don't know what the top of the tank is like but could you do most of the construction out side the tank and then fit it after?

Jezz


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

External contstruction with polystyrene is actually a VERY good idea Jezza, dunno why I didn't think of it, I've seen enough build journals doing it. lol Will discuss it with my wife see what she things, she's very fond of cork bark though, so who knows.. lol I'm probably going to use xaxim panels on the side though, it greens up really really nicely in my experience.

It's not an easy tank to work in, I am 6'5" tall and have to use steps to reach more than half way down it. lol

Ade


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

Marcus on dendroworld uses polystyrene with crushed xaxim glued to it i must say his vivs are stunning might be worth a look into

Jezz


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## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Could still go with the palludarium idea and go for some vietnamese mossy frogs.

PS don't let Alex see your moss balls


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ner, I'd rather leave out the water than leave out the dart frogs Mike.  Properly addicted I am.

As to the moss balls, I'll chuck them into the aquarium next to this one, along with all but the vallisneria out of this one, the val will be going into the composter as give it the light I have in the other tank and you end up with a tank of val and not a lot else. lol You can't tell from that pic as it was taken before I added the red root floater, but despite having the fancy LED light (which make the floater really red...) I keep this tank in shade by allowing the floater to cover most of the surface. I have a bit of a problem with aquarium plants, slow growing ones grow fast, medium growing ones grow very fast, fast growing ones end up coming out of the top of my tanks, very fast growing ones leave me exhausted from trying to keep them pruned. Let me put it another way, I find anubias barteri to be fast growing. lol

Hmmm, I am giving serious thought to making the 'void' under the false bottom more interesting by using my red LEDs in it. Tack for the win, although I am resisting my wife's instructions to use wedding cake columns instead of pipe to hold up the false bottom. lol

Ade


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

looks like it will make a cracking viv :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks Sam.

This is definitely underway now. Got silicone, runners, fly screen and polycarbonate (4mm twin wall) all ready to go, I also have a couple of little handle things to stick to the doors to make them easier to slide.

I've also now emptied and stripped down the tank. You can see now how bright that light tile is:-










I can't wait to get started on this! Need a mitre block though so I can get straight cuts on the pipes for the false bottom supports. I think a work mate type bench is called for as well.  I already have tons of weed fabric (as in about 100 metres of it on a roll. lol).

I discussed the back with my wife. We're going to keep it simple and use cork bark for the back and Xaxim panels for the sides. Not a cheap option, but heh will look good. I suggested using clay to her, I wont repeat her reply on here. lmao

Oh, I also need to extend the inlet on the filter inlet pipe so it reached down to the bottom. Not difficult to do though.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Jealous.

How much of the back/sides will you cover?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Right up to the 2 front slants Morg. It's going to cost a fair bit, but will be worth it once it's finished.

I MIGHT change my mind about Xaxim panels for the sides though to be honest, and Gorilla glue a load of xaxim granules to some polystyrene instead. Would certainly shave some off the cost. I've found though that things root more readily into the panels than they do into granules. Decisions decisions. Ner, panels it is. lol

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Time to update on this.

Well for one I told my wife how much it would cost to use cork and xaxim penels, she blanched. lol So we are doing it the more sensible way, polystyrene panels with Gorilla glue and xaxim granules. 

So I've done some ordering for bits for this now:-

Ebay
2 Metres of Eheim 12mm filter tubing.
2 Eheim 12mm straight connectors.
3 Eheim 12mm elbows

Dartfrog
4 2l bags of xaxim granules. (some of this will be mixed into the substrate mix, the rest is to make the background and side panels)
0.5kg live sphagnum (to be chopped and mixed into the substrate blend).
100 oak leaves. (I tend to mix some of these, torn up and whole, into my substrate mix)
2 small corkscrew liana.

Pollywog
5 pack of jungle leaves.
3 pack of almond pods.
10l of composted bark. (for the substrate mix)
2 5packs of sponge mushroooms.

Reptilekeeping
5 litre fine orchid bark.

Borrowing a mitre block and set square from my dad tomorrow, so I should be able to install the false bottom soon.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I know I keep pushing clay, but this time it's for the substrate.

Acquiring Clay Substrate Materials? - Dendroboard

If you fancy it.


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

how come you dont just use gorilla glue onto the glass? would save money and space :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I know I keep pushing clay, but this time it's for the substrate.
> 
> Acquiring Clay Substrate Materials? - Dendroboard
> 
> If you fancy it.


Thanks for the suggestion Morg, but to be honest I get very satisfactory result with my own substrate mixes. Clay would just add more bother. 



sambridge15 said:


> how come you dont just use gorilla glue onto the glass? would save money and space :2thumb:


I explained earlier Sam, I can't remove this tank from it's stand. It's VERY big and heavy, been made of 10mm float glass, and cost nearly £500, so no way am I risking it. You can't apply Gorilla glue to a vertical surface, it runs straight off. Hence the polystyrene sheets, which can then just be siliconed in place (silicone is much tackier, so will stay on vertical surfaces). Normally I do indeed just put the Gorilla glue directly onto the glass.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ok, my wife is going to kill me when she gets home from visiting her aunty.... I just spent £67 on plants from Rana......:lol2: Time for another list:-

Begonia schulzei
Cissus amazonica
Neoregelia ampullacea
Neregelia fireball
Vriesea fenestralis
Criesea fosterana
3 Cryptanthus "red star"
Pilea depressa

Yup, I am soooo dead. Until they arrive and she sees how nice some of the ones on that list that are hard to find in the UK are, like the begonia. : victory:

I am off to a garden centre with my parents tomorrow as well, and I happen to know that the one that we are going to has a really good house plant section..... :whistling2: I know this as I worked in their fish room once.:lol2:

Thing is, I reckon even with the 20 Eur shipping that getting them from Rana worked out cheaper... Not counting the fact that I can't find some of those plants here in the UK online.

Before Morgan says anything, yes I looked on the Westerman site, shish he's expensive. :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

You can get some good deals on Bert's site. I just go for all the 6/7 euro ones! They're still nicer than most in the UK.


*is a bert fan*


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> You can get some good deals on Bert's site. I just go for all the 6/7 euro ones! They're still nicer than most in the UK.
> 
> 
> *is a bert fan*


Very true for most of the European sellers. They usually come potted, where a lot of UK sellers they're just unrooted offsets. The offsets soon root and pup, but one that is already rooted and pupping means more space filled for less.:2thumb:

Problem was, the plants I wanted were more expensive with Bert. I'm not a massive brom fan, I just like a few, and most of the plants I like are cheaper from elsewhere.

One thing I would like to find though is somebody that sells oakleaf ficus in proper big pot fulls, rather than the recently potted cuttings. I'm probably going to use standard pumila in this one, been so big I have a lot of space to fill and fast.:lol2:

*Is a fan of buying from Europe*

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Phew thank god for that.:gasp:...your still posting...so that means you must still be alive you've survived your darlin' coming home:2thumb:. Ithink the oakleaf pot full is in short supply because they are so so slow,yeah we have loads but i think they are all spoken for,otherwise Id have one up there in a jiffy, i reckon that most have taken nearly a year to get there though mate (granted summer outside winter on south facing kitchen table),wish i could sort those cuts too me old mate (joys of having a chopsaw everyone bang on 90 ruddy frustrating). Any way post some pics of the plants would love to see em, and keep going on the build enthralled we are,got to say though i don't envy you leaning over that tank,but as we both know the grief will soon be forgotton when your staring at those gorgeous vents, in whats going to be an amazing viv


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

ah I see supose if/when you decided to refit the tank not apllying gorilla glue direct to glass also means you can remove it easier :2thumb:lol wish i could spend so much on plants i normaly go with whats cheap :lol2:still cant complain im very happy with my viv


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Phew thank god for that.:gasp:...your still posting...so that means you must still be alive you've survived your darlin' coming home:2thumb:. Ithink the oakleaf pot full is in short supply because they are so so slow,yeah we have loads but i think they are all spoken for,otherwise Id have one up there in a jiffy, i reckon that most have taken nearly a year to get there though mate (granted summer outside winter on south facing kitchen table),wish i could sort those cuts too me old mate (joys of having a chopsaw everyone bang on 90 ruddy frustrating). Any way post some pics of the plants would love to see em, and keep going on the build enthralled we are,got to say though i don't envy you leaning over that tank,but as we both know the grief will soon be forgotton when your staring at those gorgeous vents, in whats going to be an amazing viv


No, I just haven't shown her what I bought and spent yet....:whistling2: She's in a good mood though, so I might survive. I don't envy me leaning over the tank either, I have to get up rather high to reach the bottom.... lol My wife just informed me as well that the steps "may accidentally disappear out from underneath you". Eeek!



sambridge15 said:


> ah I see supose if/when you decided to refit the tank not apllying gorilla glue direct to glass also means you can remove it easier :2thumb:lol wish i could spend so much on plants i normaly go with whats cheap :lol2:still cant complain im very happy with my viv


Yeah, just means it's more fiddly to do. It also gives me an extra layer into which I can push paperclips to fasten in plants. When you use it straight onto glass the paperclip often falls out as the substrate isn't strong enough to hold it in and the GG is too thin.:lol2: You don't HAVE to spend a lot to plant a viv, you just do if you want plants that aren't as easy to obtain. I've been eyeing begonia shultzei for a while now and have only been able to find it on BriBri, ENT, bromwesterman (or whatever the name is) and Rana, all of which are European.:lol2: Most of the folks who have it over here seem to have got it either from other hobbyists or from one of those I just mentioned. I've not seen vriesea fosterana before over here either. Even the more ordinary plants are better from there, the Cissus for example DF sells as a rooted cutting, ok it's half the price, but a proper potted plant means I get more for my money.:2thumb:

UPDATE Just showed my wife the list, ooops, I made a booboo. You know those 3 cryptanthus I ordered? I forgot the tons of offsets I have already... Then she noticed that I had spent 5 EUR for winter packaging....

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Hehe. one of the few advantages of not actually living with my partner- I don't complain when he buys his latest techy toy- which will be outdated/miles cheaper in six months- and he doesn't complain when yet another animal/accessory means yet more attention, time and expense!:lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Hehe. one of the few advantages of not actually living with my partner- I don't complain when he buys his latest techy toy- which will be outdated/miles cheaper in six months- and he doesn't complain when yet another animal/accessory means yet more attention, time and expense!:lol2:


Hmmm, thing is though Ron I like techy toys and animals.... Luckily so does my wife, put it this way her nickname is gadget. :lol2:

I'm not often an early adopter though, usually things are broken when just out. Heck even the AquaRays were found to have a fault when they first came out. I still have trouble with our Sky+HD box, I live in hopes that Sky will one day sort these out....

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Garden centre wasn't too bad really. They'd got those little pot houseplants for 79p each, but found some larger ones for just a little more. Nothing special, just 2 pots of variegated pumila (£1.29 each), a pot of white fittonia (£1.49) and a pot of pink fittnia (£1.25), so not bad at all really:-










Only broms there were some 79p cyrptanthus and the tillandsia sadly.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ah man I need a decent garden centre, especially for pumila.


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Garden centre wasn't too bad really. They'd got those little pot houseplants for 79p each, but found some larger ones for just a little more. Nothing special, just 2 pots of variegated pumila (£1.29 each), a pot of white fittonia (£1.49) and a pot of pink fittnia (£1.25), so not bad at all really:-
> 
> image
> 
> ...


its funny my pumila i put in vivs allways grows crazy but none of the new growth has white bits on the leaves just goes a nice lush green ...admitedly i prefere that anyway lol


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Aye bud, our local one is RUBBISH for houseplants. Hollybush is up by where we used to live before we moved here. Excellent house plant room there, along with a herp room (see golden tree frog post), a furry room, fish room.... It gets really busy there, so anybody in the area thinking of trying them on a bank holiday, my advice is don't! We had people queueing for nearly an hour once in the fish room just to get served, right out of the fish room into the aquatic dry goods section, and just getting about is a nightmare on weekends and bank holidays, you can't stop to look at stuff, you have to keep moving with the crowds. lol

But yeah, they are excellent for house plants there. Oh and anybody interested, they are selling a fully set up and planted paludarium with all equipment for £145 at the moment.

The difficulty I had was dragging my parents away from the 3 parrots..... Then dragging them away from the furries.....Oh and my mum fell in love with a milk snake she spotted.... She was none too keen on the huge tarantula they have in there at the moment though. Hur hur hur.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

sambridge15 said:


> its funny my pumila i put in vivs allways grows crazy but none of the new growth has white bits on the leaves just goes a nice lush green ...admitedly i prefere that anyway lol


That's the lighting bud. Variegated plants lose the variegation if they don't have really really good lighting. Demonstrated perfectly in my Regina viv where the pumila I have at the top is fully variegated on all it's growth, even new, whilst the bit I have near the front at the bottom is reverting on it's newest growth.

Like you though I wanted the plain green, but couldn't find any so got variegated. The leaf shape is a bit different as well.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

ye gads mate i just saw what you lady said about those steps,that right there is some scarey stuff, especially with a, was it £500 tank and you half in side it:gasp::gasp::gasp:,nice plants mate,ha ha we love sonny,(variagated pumilla) though its much slower than the normal one for us.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Same here Stu. I would have preferred normal, guess I will have to nick a cutting from my Alanis viv.

If that begonia takes off though, coverage wont be an issue any more. 

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Another update, no pics I am afraid, I'll take what I can tomorrow.

Right, first off I have now fitted the supports and filter grid (like egg crate, but stronger and easier to cut) for the false bottom, with the help of my wife who cut the filter grid for me. I am stuck again now though until the filter tubing comes, as when I install the weed fabric I will need to pass the intake tubing through this into the bottom of the void space. It will be completely closed off, no hatches, as there wont be any pumps etc in there that need maintaining, lliterally just the intake. The actual working are all outside the tank, in the cabinet below where I can access them easily. Even if the external filter or heater pack up, all I have to do is replace them with another that uses 12mm pipe. :2thumb:

All that I could do before I put the weed fabric in would be to construct the back and sides (including the water fall body), but I can't do this either as still waiting on the ground xaxim.... Oh and yeah, the water fall. I realised that I can't just go siliconeing a lump of wood to 2.5cm thick polystyrene sheet, it will just rip the surface off. So my plan is to build a structure using more styrene, cover it in xaxim and Gorilla glue and glue the wood to a part of this where the weight is fully supported, with just bits of the wood sticking out over it where the water can trickle off from. Between carving the polystyrene a bit, and the foaming up of the Gorilla glue, there should be no straight edges visible to spoil the look.

The other bit of news, I ordered a BIG piece of red moor root wood yesterday. It's nearly 2 feet across and is literally a bush sized root, with a bit of stump on it. It should look fantastic place in the middle of the viv, and if it's a tight squeeze I can soon chop the ends of some of the rooty bits to make it fit. I can SO imagine frogs jumping around on it, and it should make a really good place to attach some epiphytic plants, especially moss and maybe a couple of the sponge mushrooms I bought. I'd love to post a pic, but I don't have one until it has arrived. I ordered it by next day shipping though, so hoping it will come tomorrow. Cost me 30 odd quid, but well worth it for what should prove a real focal point in there.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Filter bits finally arrived, so I was able to progress a little more.

Couple of pics of the false bottom:-



















The section at the back isn't stuck down, so in an absolute emergency I can remove the substrate from the back and lift this plate out.

I also put a base layer of substrate in, made up of composted bark from Pollywog with a small quantity of powdered bentonite clay.

Stuch again now waiting for the Xaxim. Once that comes I can construct the back and sides, and then put the top layer of substrate in.

For the area under the water fall I have ordered some hydroleca and will use a thin layer of this topped with live sphagnum and leaf litter. I will plant moisture loving plants in the soil next to this area, taking advantage of the water that will seep from this into the adjacent soil.










Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm actually excited.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

So am I bud, so am I. Excited and frustrated at the same time, frustrated by the delays caused waiting for stuff I need. lol I just hope my idea for the water fall works as I think it will. I am actually thinking of layering some of the shale rock I have for the top part of it.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> So am I bud, so am I. Excited and frustrated at the same time, frustrated by the delays caused waiting for stuff I need. lol I just hope my idea for the water fall works as I think it will. I am actually thinking of layering some of the shale rock I have for the top part of it.
> 
> Ade


All part of the fun!

Is this the tank you're using the LED on? Can't remember.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Yup it is. I took those pics without the flash.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Well in that case I'm VERY excited. I wana see those badboys shine!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I've just made a start on the top conversion, putting in 2 strips at the back to form a vent and where the top of the door will go:-










I am going to cut a strip for the front in a bit with holes in it to form front ventilation. Once that's done I'll leave it all for 24 hours to allow the silicone to cure. The hole at the back left where the filter pipes go will be stuffed with filter foam and sealed up completely so there are no gaps at all there.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I never was very patient, and the unsupported strip was sagging in the middle, so I did some more work on the top.

First I cut some stainless steel mesh for the fly screen vent:-










Anybody who hasn't done this yet, a tip, WEAR GLOVES! That stuff is sharp, and shredded the thin gloves I was wearing (nitrile) as had been working with silicone. Had I not been wearing those gloves it would have been my skin shredded I am sure.

Next, I cut a cover to go on top of this, covering both the back strip and the unsupported one, overlapping the glass supports to give even more strength:-










I then siliconed in the fly screen mesh followed by the cover, using plenty of silicone and then putting a bead around the edges of the top of the cover to ensure that there were no gaps (except the one for the pipes). I then cut the E profile for the doors, and siliconed and taped this into place:-










I'll leave the tape on for a couple of days to give the silicone time to cure completely.

Not the neatest of jobs, but not bad given I have a tremor, and I am pretty certain I left no gaps through which frogs or fruit flies can escape, apart from the one for the piping which will be completely blocked up once the tubing is all plumbed in.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Entralling stuff kiddo, dont worry if some of the lines aren't as straight as ya want........nature doesn't do straight, so for a guy with a tremor we think it ROCKS, gonna wait till you got all the grafting done before we releive you of it though, lazy git aint I:Na_Na_Na_Na:, wish ya all the best on this mate,as said before gonna be very special this one......:lol2::lol2: now don't let us down will ya....he he AS IF:2thumb:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Entralling stuff kiddo, dont worry if some of the lines aren't as straight as ya want........nature doesn't do straight, so for a guy with a tremor we think it ROCKS, gonna wait till you got all the grafting done before we releive you of it though, lazy git aint I:Na_Na_Na_Na:, wish ya all the best on this mate,as said before gonna be very special this one......:lol2::lol2: now don't let us down will ya....he he AS IF:2thumb:


As I said, I'm going for the simple option with my next tank- but don't think for a second I won't follow this- exciting stuff!:2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks guys. : victory:

Ron I used the simplest methods possible (apart from the fogger on a Humidity Control II bit. lol) in my first dart viv, drainage layer, hydrofleece, soil and coco panel sides. It's ruddy ugly compared to my other more ambitious vivs though, hence I don't use methods that simple now. Some folks can make simple so beautiful, I'm not one of them. :lol2:

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

More pics, as my wood and the plants from Rana have arrived:-

Root




























I tried it another position as well:-




























My wife prefers the 1st position, but I am torn between the 2 as from some angles the 2nd one looks better to me.

Onto the plants:-










I definitely feel that I got better value despite the higher shipping costs (I order by next day anyway, so it's only a few pounds difference). The fireball is really good, with 2 offsets ready to be snipped off already, the ampulacea has 2 ready as well. The fosterana is a very attractive brom, and the begonia is very pretty with diddy little flowers on it.:2thumb: I can't wait to plant these. I spent late last night cutting pieces of polystrene sheet to size ready to cover them when the Xaxim comes on Monday. :lol2: I worked out a way to build the water fall, I am going to construct an overhang with polystrene sheet siliconed together, and decorate this to make it look water fall like, wish some shards of shale rock and a piece of wood I have sitting around. :2thumb: The back and right side I am going to keep simple, just carve a single sheet a bit (2.5cms thick, so plenty gouge) and then cover this with Gorilla glue and Xaxim. So basically I am doing things differently to how they are usually done, decorating the side in a similar fashion to how most people construct backgrounds. I am doing this because this tank is viewed from 2 angles, directly in front of it from the settee, and from the right hand corner to the left side from where I sit. The back will be where I plant most of the broms still, with mostly creeping plants up the sides.

Ade

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

After looking at those pics, I am going with position 1 for the root, position 2 looks too much like a tentacled creature trying to climb up the side, rather than a natural root. lol

Ade


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

Nice Ade plants look just the job. Can't wait to see the end result. I have little patients too can't wait to get stuck into my brazils new viv. look forward to your next instalment :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Def position one. You can always change it after the plants are in.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Cheers chaps.

Had a play with the wood, and I am thinking something like this:-










I'm not 100% happy with the long branch, but I tried loads and loads of positions and that was the one I liked the most out of them all.

As you say Morg, it will look different again once the plants are in, not to mention the water fall and backigrounds. Once the water fall is in for example there will be more 'weight' on the right (visually speaking) which should bring balance to the currently right heavy layout.

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Thanks guys. : victory:
> 
> Ron I used the simplest methods possible (apart from the fogger on a Humidity Control II bit. lol) in my first dart viv, drainage layer, hydrofleece, soil and coco panel sides. It's ruddy ugly compared to my other more ambitious vivs though, hence I don't use methods that simple now. * Some folks can make simple so beautiful, I'm not one of them. :lol2:*
> 
> Ade


 As the bishop said to the actress...


As I said, though- enthralling. I can't wait to see the finished tank!:2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

:2thumb:

Carved the water fall out of polystyrene:-











A few of them, and I had a stack of polystyrene stuck together:-










At this point my wife was giving me very odd looks, I don't think she was too convinced, but a fair bit of carving later using a padsaw blade:-



















Now I think she is convinced. lol My 2 youngest think I have made a snow mountain.... Apt really.:lol2:

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Actually, it was Stu who said 'enthralling' - but the principle still holds.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Actually, it was Stu who said 'enthralling' - but the principle still holds.


 :2thumb:he he whats a word between friends mate?. Ade some thoughts, think the wood and plants look great, my only concearn ...or rather just a thought ...the "root" is there any way to hide the sawn edges, of course this is totally a personal thang,it might not bug you like it would me, but sometimes when one is deep entrenched in a build one doesn't see silly little things like that and they come back and haunt you later, you might well have plans to work around this, my other thought would be could one split the root in half so the cut is close to the backgroung where the figs will cover it, and as a side benefit one would have twice the roots to look at, emerging from the background. We are constantly on the lookout, for roots like the stunner you have just got for this exact purpose, jealous i am:whistling2: . ha still as me mate says enthralled


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

They have more roots similar on The Green Machine Online site Stu, that size cost around £32 though.

The cut edges are easy to hide, moss and epithytes bud.  So don't worry those 2 cut edges wont be visible. It's got to be fetched out again yet, I only put it in to get an idea of how to position it.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

yeah bud i hear ya on the positioning, funny really 'cause I am always trying for no trace of man in our vivs,ie sawcuts.....camera canasters etc, I/we need to hide all that stuff, ha buddy can't wait to see what ya do, we will log it and rob it later:whistling2:. Wish we could buy wood like that mate, but that is one of the areas we try to save on, there is so much out there but my god its hard to find sommit like that,just lying about as it were. But we are working on it he he


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> yeah bud i hear ya on the positioning, funny really 'cause I am always trying for no trace of man in our vivs,ie sawcuts.....camera canasters etc, I/we need to hide all that stuff, ha buddy can't wait to see what ya do, we will log it and rob it later:whistling2:. Wish we could buy wood like that mate, but that is one of the areas we try to save on, there is so much out there but my god its hard to find sommit like that,just lying about as it were. But we are working on it he he


Keep looking! Whenever I'm out I hope to come across something cool, I have loads of random bits of oak wood back at my mum's gaff, probably never get used, but it's there!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

How to hid a film pot, gorilla glue it into the side.  I've done the same with half a plant pot for a bigger hide before now as well, works really well as it just looks like a burrow. Sadly I also have some completely visible. Sometimes I make sacrifices like this for the good of the frogs.  The good news is, I can bin them once the frogs get older and replace with coco huts which you can cover with moss really easily.  I have visible film pots in my vent viv as well, but the frogs prefer the brom axles it seems... lol

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

ha ha in the best traditions of blue Peter here's one we prepared earlier









yep been at the coconuts for ages mate,( we call em Dougals) which broms have your vents(i am guessing thats what your talking about) taken a shine to...ie is there any particular species they seem to prefer.
Morg ya gotta use em mate, we picked some corkers in the last couple of weeks, but not the rooty stuff,although we know where a beauty is ,just waiting for the guy to fell the tree as she is dead anyway.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I would but it's about 5ft long.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Nice job on that coco hut bud. 

My vents seem to be in love with a really big neo fireball! One of them is calling as well, I was just up their listening to it. The fireball is big enough for a colony of vents I reckon. lol

Man I can't wait to plant up the conversion, planting up is my fave part. I want to see how these fancy broms do under that LED, part of the reason I chose ones with plenty of red/purple tints.

Oh I just though about another way to hide the cuts on the wood, hollow them out a bit with the old drill, fill em with substrate and plant em. Would work for the bigger one I reckon.

Oh and what my wife doesn't know yet is I plan to thieve a leptotes bicolor to go on that branch, up top near the vent so it can get some air.

Oh and I don't go hunting around woods as I live in a town and don't have transport. I sometimes get to go for a stroll on Cannock Chase, but I tend to have my parents in tow, plus the ranger there get really arsey if you remove anything at all, especially from Brocton copice, which is pretty much the only area that is made up of deciduous broadleaf trees and not conifers. There's also quite a big amphibian population there. So I spend money and get nice pieces that are shown individually so I know exactly what I am getting.

You could always try making some roots with PVC pipes Morg, if anybody can you can.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't see the point, there's wild vines in my local woods, going up there with a pair of secateurs!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Yep, i need a trip to the woods soon, need fresh leafmould, some bits of wood and seasonal holly!:2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I have 3 bags of leaf mould sitting about the flat. Not a happy caroline.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I have 3 bags of leaf mould sitting about the flat. Not a happy caroline.


:lol2:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

he he morg I can't top that but can get a close second,moved all the plants of the kitchen table to the new rack, Shaz said ah my table ....5 mins later I'd swamped it with another 2 massivetrays that were in the heatsink greenhouse, ahem and only one(v,large) sack of oakleaves. Ade yes we are very interested in how the reds pickup under that led, he he sounds like you might have to get your skates on that lillfella wont wait, will you move the fireball with the vents to the new gaff mate?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Probably yeah, would make sense to and the new one from Rana is nice and big with some good big offsets on it, I can easily nick some of that to go in the old one when I move them.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Make that a no, had a look and their fave brom is well rooted into the Gorilla glue side of their current viv, it would wreck the viv to remove it. Guess they will have to make to with the 3 new fireballs I have. 

Oh and I said I would find a way to hide or disguise those cut edges:-










Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

:notworthy: nuff said,ruddy spot on mate.......its a mad thing one has a couple of bits of wood,and they could go in a million places but there are only one or two that really really work..... crazy is it not? ha how many hours will you and i and our 2 darlings spend agonising over the right place for a bit of wood ha ha


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Hours usually. lol Sad isn't it? :lol2: I've found the best way though is to photograph as you try. Often something looks ok to the eye, then you look at a photograph of it and realise that it just isn't doing it.

Ade


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## steven_law (Nov 1, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Make that a no, had a look and their fave brom is well rooted into the Gorilla glue side of their current viv, it would wreck the viv to remove it. Guess they will have to make to with the 3 new fireballs I have.
> 
> Oh and I said I would find a way to hide or disguise those cut edges:-
> 
> ...


love it


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Hours usually. lol Sad isn't it? :lol2: I've found the best way though is to photograph as you try. Often something looks ok to the eye, then you look at a photograph of it and realise that it just isn't doing it.
> 
> Ade


 Great thought me old mate will make a note of that!


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

starting to take shape Ade when do the parts for the background and sides arrive?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Jezza84 said:


> starting to take shape Ade when do the parts for the background and sides arrive?


A few minutes ago. :2thumb: I wont be able to attach them yet though, I realised yesterday that if I use the transparent silicone I have I will be seeing ugly white polystyrene on the outside on the sides. So I've ordered 2 tubes of black silicone to fasten these on to match the silicone used on the aquarium. I can at least get them Gorilla glued and xaxim applied.

I can also now get some more substrate made up as I shouldn't need 8 litres of xaxim granules just for the sides and background so I'll mix some with some fine orchid bark, chopped sphagnum, crushed oak leaves and pure sphagnum peat. I've used this mix a few times now and it works really well, plants do great in it and it doesn't seem to compact particularly.

Liana arrived as well, lovely big long vines, shame I am going to have to take a hacksaw to them to fit them in. I am going to use them together as they look most effective intertwined.

Ade


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah I was going to suggest putting the longer piece of wood down more, maybe even in front of the roots but it looks really great as it is now :2thumb:

Is lower ventillation not an issue at all with darts in high humidity then? I noticed that dart viv builders tend to use vents lower down still, but I have also seen some amazing fish tank vivs set up, as yours will be :2thumb:

I have one of these knocking about I was considering putting some leucs in, just was considering the ventilation aspect 

Cheers and good luck with your project Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Dont worry about vents too much, enough air will get in for the frogs, you may have a few condensation issues but that's all.


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## brysaa2 (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Dont worry about vents too much, enough air will get in for the frogs, you may have a few condensation issues but that's all.


Thanks for the info Morg, I assumed as much, but one cannot go by that alone when frogs lives are at stake :lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

So long as the substrate isn't sodden as Morg says air circulation isn't that much of a biggy for the frogs, it's more important for some plants though, eg. orchids. That's why I always plant orchids and air plants near the top of my vivs near the vents. Condensation may be a problem though, but if neccessary I will fit some circulation fans.

Anyway, water fall is now covered, not too sure about the look, but I am sure once it's softened with some plant growth etc it will look fine:-










I put the back panel and cornel panels in as well as these aren't visible from the outside of the tank unlike the 2 side panels:-










Still need to silicone some sponge mushrooms onto them.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Looking really good mate,its gonna be one hell of a lovely tank, mate could I ask ya a massive favour Shaz is having a real shit time today and she wants to see the vents ,my net is giving me the run around could ya post us a couple of pics please,he he i bet there are a few others that would like to see em too mate yours Stu


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Only got the 1 pic of one of them at the moment Stu, I need to take some more. Anyway, hope she likes this:-










They tend to be most active after the lights come on and again at around lunch time when the misting system has just been on, so I'll try to get some more soon.

Oh and found a way to cover that green pipe, covered a strip of polycarbonate with gorilla glue and xaxim to go across it, I'll then plug up the top and seal the top with some silicone to keep the frogs from going behind there. The gaps between the corner panels and bigger panels will be sealed up with brown silicone and xaxim.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks bro....REALLY thanks...like the pipe cover idea too mate, tell us is that little guy calling? in which case that would answer her Q is it a fella? Stunning frog ha ha those great big eyes...mate how many do you have and have you decided on a no. for the finished tank...Iknow you were talking to Jezz about it but can't remember the outcome.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I think that is the male yeah, the other frog is plumper looking, not so sleek, and yeah he's calling a couple of times a day, about the same times as they become VERY active, so just after the light comes on and again just after the lunch time misting. If you listen to the end of this recording (on the Mistking site) this is exactly the call, with the long then the short. It's very cool to hear, but you have to have good hearing, it's not at all loud.

They are VERY stunning. I was never really massively tempted by thumbnail species, then I bought these and fell for them big time. That metallic gold colour along with the cyan belly and legs are just stunning, and I know I keep saying this but they are MEGA bold! They sit on leaves in plain site watching me. lol I only have the 2 at the moment, as the original plan was to keep them in the 30cm x 40cm x40cm tall ENT viv they are in at the moment, but once we decided to do this conversion they were the ideal choice. After chatting with Jezz we decided 6 frogs total in there would be best. I know it doesn't seem a lot in a big tank like this, but they are VERY active and use all of the space you give them! I love watching them leaping around their current viv. They're even more acrobatic than tree frogs.  Boldness is a big plus as well with this tank been in the living room as I have 4 daughters... lol

I am guessing that Shaz is liking these as well? lol

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

He he, thought it was 6, yep mate, that right there is the probablem....she likes all of 'em ALL of em vents vanzo pum you blummin name it, in fact thinking about it nearly every thub' we have seen at Marcs has been right up front gotta think real hard to remember not being able to see any of them. do you know of any shy thunbs mate?
As far as space I remember Lotte saying that the viv at jersey zoo for pums was 3mx2m i think,(someone will slap me if I am wrong), and they use every inch of it,its amazing how much ground most of those little guys cover, here ya go same Q as i asked jez(only his are kid yours large what do ya feed mate i think i know but its always worth checking ,ha ha i forget stuff,well its probably more a case of trying to fit too much in:lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

There are supposed to be some very very shy thumbnails. :lol2: I think the most popular ones though are bolder.

Mine love sprintails, second they like melo ffs, but they will also eat small hydei.

Couple of vids you might enjoy that I took earlier today:-

YouTube - VentrimaculatusEatingSpringtails.AVI

YouTube - VentrimaculatusCheckingMeOut.AVI

The noise you can hear is the camera motor, not the frogs, and is why in one vid a frog came to take a closer look at what was making the noise. Shortly after the end of the vid it tried to jump to the door, but missed and went splosh into the drainage gulley. lol

I'll post some stills I took shortly.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Right, I took 11 stills, so I will split them up rather than cramming into 1 post.




























>>>>


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

>>>>


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

>>>>>>


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

That last one is quite funny as it misjudged it's jump slightly and ended up like that on the leaf.:lol2:

Should be enough pics there for your Mrs Stu.:2thumb:

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Want.

How's the prOject going? i.e get some new pics up!


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I am totally stuck at the moment bud, about all that I can do at the moment is silicone the sponge mushrooms I bought onto the panels ready. Stuck waiting for Lexan for the door and the black silicone though. If the black silicone doesn't arrive soon I am just going to stick the sides on with clear and cover up with black Mylar later. I'll still need the brown silicone though to fill in the gaps between panels.

This snow is doing me no favours. Here's hoping the post still gets through.

Ade

PS. This regional variant of vent isn't at all rare bud, so no reason you can't get some once you have a viv for them.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

SOME of the silicone came, missing 1 tube of black that I had ordered as a spare. So I started work again. Unfortunately, it turned out that spare was needed, 1 tube only did 1 panel, so I ended up using brown for 1 side as well as to cover joints. I also had to hack the corner pieces a fair bit to get the sides to fit. Ended up with a bit of a mess in there, and the right still doesn't fit quite right at the top. My plan is to fill in the gaps with Gorilla glue now, and cover this in xaxim granules.

I also need to clean some smeared silicone of the front corners.

Anyway here is how it looks at the moment:-










I actually like that piece of wood like that, so I stuck a mushroom to it. :lol2:

Now to wait for the Lexan and for the 2 tubes worth of silicone to cure. Shish does it stink in my living room at the moment. :censor:

Oh and I should mention, those pieces of cork bark are loose, there just there to prop up those mushrooms whilst the silicone on them cures.
Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Aha now it's taking shape!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Rock 'n' roll mate,yep she loves it all especially the vid and the last miss "judged", though rarther embarrassing for a guy into sound the computer is a silent world for us never had speakers:blush:, also massive thanks mate ya know!!! viv is really starting to shape up as my learned coleague(spelling?) says. Yeah this cold is messing with us all mate managed to go get me runners though today so once finished grafting tomorrow will be able to do do do do he he.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Well, it proved a pain in the bottom to do, I am covered in Gorilla glue, my wife says it's the last viv as it was so much grief to do, but I dunno, I kind of think it's all worth it:-










Still to do:- Fit misting nozzles when the new system arrives from Vivariumland, fit doors when the Lexan finally arrives....

Ade


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## steven_law (Nov 1, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> Well, it proved a pain in the bottom to do, I am covered in Gorilla glue, my wife says it's the last viv as it was so much grief to do, but I dunno, I kind of think it's all worth it:-
> 
> image
> 
> ...


finnishing price total and time??


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

steven_law said:


> finnishing price total and time??


You don't want to know. :lol2: If you insist though:-

Tank and stand: £480
External filter: £75
Styrene: about £5
Xaxim granules: £24
Substrate bits: £20 ish
Decor: £40 ish
Plants: £70 ish
Lighting: £250 ish
ETH Heater: £47
Filter bits: £25
Misting system: 174.43
Reservoir etc: £50.66
Total estimate of cost:£1201.09p

Told you you didn't want to know, that isn't including the cost of the Gorilla glue or silicone. lol Time, a few hours here and there since the 16 of last Month.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ouch. It's the lights and tank thats bumped it up obvs. Ive spent over £500 on my exo.

Oh and nice work!!!

Can I be annoying and offer a very small criticism? The wood slightly obscures the view of the entire viv.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I like the wood, gives it 3 dimensions.  I'm not a fan of the wall of plants approach.: victory: Keep in mind that photographs flatten things.

Yup, the tank and lighting pushed the costs up, but I already had them, and the filter and heater. So I have spent less than that. I didn't even bother to add the cost of the polycarbonate, lexan, runners etc. lol Heck you could drive over to Holland to Rana and buy one ready planted etc for less than this cost.:whistling2: I had the stuff already though.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Cracking me thinks, oh man they're gonna love that, shaz wants to know did you cut the big root up?, mate could you give us some more pics kinda off staight, its helps me assimulate more of the 3D, methinks not going to holland was a wise move as ya said before, tis your work!!!


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## Jezza84 (Dec 9, 2009)

Nice work Ade, How long you going to leave it grow in? and i am guessing moving the vents into this gives you a spare tank for something else more thumbs?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> Cracking me thinks, oh man they're gonna love that, shaz wants to know did you cut the big root up?, mate could you give us some more pics kinda off staight, its helps me assimulate more of the 3D, methinks not going to holland was a wise move as ya said before, tis your work!!!


Only taken 1 other pic so far:-










The big root came like that bud, it's redmoor root wood from The Green Machine. I spotted it on their site and had to have it. lol I then put a rooty bit of Sumatra driftwood on top of it.



Jezza84 said:


> Nice work Ade, How long you going to leave it grow in? and i am guessing moving the vents into this gives you a spare tank for something else more thumbs?


I usually leave my vivs for at least 2 months, not so much for the plants to grow in, more to give springtails and woodlice time to multiply before they become a snack.:lol2: I do indeed intend to put a different pair of thumbs in their old viv once they have been moved. At the moment I am really thinking Jaberos imitators. :2thumb:

Oh and I still need to seal up the hole by the filter pipes, but have some Reefscape putty that will do that in short order and cures under water so humidity wont bother it.

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

gotcha mate The second pic reveal the first 2 bits of wood better,what are the seed pods towards the front mate? the look a bit like brazil nut cases are they?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Ooops, sorry Stu, didn't see you had asked a question. I think the ones you are asking about are Almond pods, they actually go a bit soft when moist, but are still in there doing fine.

On that note, well overdue an update I reckon, so:-

Full tank shot










Detail of moss










Detail of brom










Finally, some pics of 2 of the frogs. 




































I love this pic so much it's my current desktop wallpaper. 










They have certainly grown a little. 

Ade


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