# Eri Silkworms on ebay



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Not sure if this is allowed so please forgive me mods if its not and delete as appropriate.

Eri silkworms are notoriously hard to get hold of, I just found a load on ebay though that some of you might want to nab as breeders. I wont link them as I'm fairly sure that would be out of the forum rules.

The Eri silkworm have a more varied diet than the mulberry ones and can be fed on Privet and others. They also get bigger than the normal silkworms and dont have a set breeding season either.

I got myself one lot of them to raise as breeders so hopefully if others get some also we can start getting some eggs out to other herp keepers in the near future.



Lizard Lunch online do a pack of food for these ones, although they are always out of stock on the actual worms/eggs.


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

isnt privet poisonous though? would the catterpillars bump your lizards off if fed on it?


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

As far as I've been able to establish.

The usual food these are fed is Castor oil leaves, which again are poisonous if eaten, the seeds off these can be fatal if eaten by children/dogs etc. Same applies to tapioca leaves, another staple leaf these are fed on.

The worms themselves however are widely used as feeders.

I'm unsure as to how they convert the toxic properties of the plants, but evidently they do.

I'll be more than happy to take further advice if anyone has kept these and fed them on something else though.

The feeder bag from Lizard Lunch is directly sold as food for the Eri as feeder silkies. I very much doubt they would tell anyone what was in it though, from what research I did on the food supply I found that the silk industry does use a semi fresh version of castor and tapioca leaves as well as others. I'm hedging that this is the same food that lizard lunch is supplying.


What I will probably do in this case. Bring up the first batch on the privet until they lay eggs. Since they have already been fed the privet its in their system so they would be unsuitable as feeders possibly (take the safe bet). Once they breed then bring up the babies on the 'safe' food supply offered by lizard lunch until we can find out exactly what other food sources there are and the safety of them etc.



Edit. further research.

The 'poison' privet is a bit of an odd one. the chemical it contains is Syringin. Which oddly is taken from the genus name of the lilac tree which has the same chemical in it. We however use lilac to make a tea out of.

I'll do further research on this but here are the relevant wiki bits. (yes I know they aren't alway reliable)


_*Ligustrum*_ (several species, commonly known as *privet*). Berries and leaves are poisonous. Berries contain syringin, which causes digestive disturbances, nervous symptoms. Can be fatal. Privet is one of several plants which are poisonous to horses. Privet pollen is known to cause asthma and eczema in sufferers. It is banned from sale or cultivation in New Zealand due to the effects of its pollen on asthma sufferers.



*Syringin* is a natural chemical compound first isolated from the bark of lilac (_Syringa vulgaris_) by Meillet in 1841.[1] It has since been found to be distributed widely throughout many types of plants. Chemically, it is the glucoside of sinapyl alcohol.



*Syringa*
In addition to being a widely used garden plant, a tea can be made from the leaves, flowers and thinner branches of Syringa vulgaris (common lilac), and common white lilac, which has a floral flavor. Some claim that this tea has shown some signs that it may produce a light euphoria in higher amounts (3+ cups of strongly brewed tea), but claims of this are relatively unverified and there is no scientific backing to report such claims. Also some find the white varieties of common lilac to have a sweeter and more pleasurable flavor, and both varieties (white and purple) seem to produce more palatable tea with more flowers and little leaves.



Ok now consider the fact that privet has less toxin in it than rubbarb stems do per Lb. Rhubbarb is actually fatally toxic to humans if you eat (get this) about 5Lbs of the leaves. We are always however told that Rhubbarb leaves are poisonout.

Oh btw. tomato and potato is also toxic lol.

So yes, privit can be toxic, but to what degree and how the eri worms deal with that should not transfer over to the lizards, I think it would kill the worms first if it was going to.


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Update.

Reply I got off the seller on ebay re feeding.


Hi Nicola,

Eri worms will eat a variety of different foliages, some giving better results than others. If you are looking at silk production then Ricinus, Lilac & Privet are best also Ailanthus if you have it. *For livefood plum, apple, willow & i'm told carrot tops ! but the silk will be poor.* They will not take the mulberry chow past the 3rd instar. At this time of the year Privet is the best option as it is evergreen.

I hope this is of some help.

Regards, William.




What I will be doing is splitting my batch into two or three lots and giving them different foods. I'll update when I know more on how they get on with what sources.

If anyone else get any please keep notes on what your feeding them and how they are doing. Would be great if we could bring them up on a staple lizard veg of some sort.


----------



## repaddict (Oct 20, 2011)

I know reptilefoodstore also stocks them from time to time and they also have a chow they can eat.

On the plum/apple/carrot tops front, does anyone know if they can complete their lifecycle on them?


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

No idea on that.

I'm going to split mine into 3 lots. One to be brought up on Privet as a secure breeding base just in case the others don't take to their alternate food supply.

I'll try some on cabbage / lettuce etc and if they havent eaten in a day or two move them into the privet box.

As for apple/plum leaves at this time of year, hmmm, probably a no go and I'm suspecting that willow will be hard to keep up supply on.

Last lot will be brought up on carrot tops subject to supply. I use a lot of carrots for my other live colonies anyway so I'll just have to source some none bagged ones that still have the tops on.


I suspect that these haven't been tried with 'normal' veg as it doesn't produce the best silk, but since we don't really care about the silk quality but rather the quality of the silkworm themselves that wont be a deciding issue on their food. As long as the worms get big and healthy and are completing their life cycle with minimum losses I can work with that ;p


I'd be obliged if anyone else would post their feeding experiments if they do get any of these.


----------



## repaddict (Oct 20, 2011)

Hey, thanks for the reply. Im also trying some so I'll let you know how I go with mine. Could you maybe ask William if he knows if they can complete their lifecycle on the carrot tops? I have an hundreds of carrots so Im interested to know how well they do in terms of breeding and fertility on the carrot tops?

Thanks!


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

As far as I can determine they can complete cycle. I'm keeping half of mine back on privet as breeders to make sure I have an egg supply.

got them today. put 5 on lettuce and 5 on cabbage. Lettuce ones dont seem to be eating so might have to move them tomorrow. Cabbage ones are munching away. They are on that long slender cabbage. I think its the grown up version of a spring green. Hopefully they get along fine with it. it does have a similar tecture to the privet though. Tough and chewy.

Since they can get to 6 inches and turn into 5 inch moths I'm going to be pushing it for space to keep seperate colonies running though I think. Should be fun lol.


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

you`d need to have a head for heights to feed ailanthus, tree of heaven is a massive tree and theres not many about..........

silkworms are usually fed on mullberry leaves, its a deciduous tree, so you cant get leaves in the winter, so its sold dried as a chow that you mix up yourself


----------



## Ben.M (Mar 2, 2008)

I did really well with these before, got them as pupae then bred the moths and had 100-200 little caterpillars, then one day I was in a hurry and asked someone to chuck some privet in their tub, which they did but when I came back they were all dead or near dead. Turns out she had sprayed them too for humidity :bash:
Probably my fault, I should have said not to spray them but just thought i'd warn you not to let the humidity get too high, good luck with them : victory:


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Ben.M said:


> I did really well with these before, got them as pupae then bred the moths and had 100-200 little caterpillars, then one day I was in a hurry and asked someone to chuck some privet in their tub, which they did but when I came back they were all dead or near dead. Turns out she had sprayed them too for humidity :bash:
> Probably my fault, I should have said not to spray them but just thought i'd warn you not to let the humidity get too high, good luck with them : victory:



OOO thanks for the heads up on the humidity. (and for the reminder to go spray my beetle grub boxes lol)

I put them in crix boxes for now.

lettuce guys have been moved to cabbage box, they hadn't touched a bite, cabbage guys are eating nicely. Lettuce guys are now munching away on the cabbage also.

Privet guys seem fairly sluggish still and not eating much at all. odd.

Going to put a couple of cabbage guys onto some different cabbage today from the garden, see how they like it. Wont remove their other cabbage though. Let them choose.

Taking a couple of privet guys and trying them on sprout leaves we have in garden, and a sprout in for good measure ;p


edit re to PM None of these are feeders. They are all breeders as they will still have the original privet dinner residue that they were fed on. I'm trying different foods to try avoid the privet on the next generation from eggs. No danger of poisoning my dragons.


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Update

Well the little guys on the 'spring green' cabbage are doing well, had one molt today into which I think is 3rd instar (unsure still on which is which). I put some normal garden cabbage in there with them yesterday but it was untouched, took it out today. Will keep these on spring green cabbage (I really need to find out the exact name of t hat stuff) and hopefully they will complete lifecycle on it.

The Privet guys are still small and sluggish compared to the cabbage guys.

Sprout guys have been moved to a mix of, chinese lettuce and a mix from Tesco peppery rocket salad bag. Contents. Rocket, Appollo lettuce, Green batavia and Lolo Rosso. Will check on them in couple hours and if they dont seem to be eating anything they will be moved to the 'cabbage patch kids' box. Can't let them go more than 24 hours without food so would need to get them eating the cabbage at least.

Not sure what to do with the Privet guys though. They dont look that healthy compared to the cabbage ones. They are the 'control' box so shouldn't really change their diet at all.

Anyone got any other ideas what to try them on? Preferably something easy to get hold of in any supermarket. They do seem to like the leathery type cabbage.


Edit.

Spring cabbages are usually sown in July and August being planted out in September and October to overwinter and be harvested from late February through to the beginning of June. In windy areas, earth up around the stem and compress the soil with your foot to ensure the plants are stable and don't suffer root rock. 
They tend to be conical in shape and quite loose leaved, often referred to as spring greens or collards.


lol I'm feeding 'cabbage patch kids' on collard greens it seems.


----------



## repaddict (Oct 20, 2011)

Could you post a pic of the collared greens?

Thanks


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

repaddict said:


> Could you post a pic of the collared greens?
> 
> Thanks



Growing Cabbages - Types of Cabbages from Allotment Vegetable Growing Advice and Guides

Website on growing cabbages. Its the first one you get to. In the shop they only use the centre bit so they look tall rather than round.


Note. I think I managed to poison some of the cabbage patch worms. Possibly a pestcide on the greens, might want to try get organic or make absolutely sure you wash them well before feeding. Had them in two seperate crix tubs though so still have the other box with plenty cabbage patch guys left to work with.

Cabbage patch kids still seem to be doing well though and are bigger than the privet guys by nearly half. I'm just hoping they keep up with the growth. Would mean that even if they don't complete life cycle we could bring up the worms on the cabbage from egg to feeding size and keep a privet lot for breeding alone.


----------



## repaddict (Oct 20, 2011)

Bugger on losing some of the cabbage patch worms Mine are on privet and doing ok but they are never going to get to 6 inches at this rate. I will definantely give the spring greens a try next time I think seeing as yours are growing better and faster on the cabbage vs privet.


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

repaddict said:


> Bugger on losing some of the cabbage patch worms Mine are on privet and doing ok but they are never going to get to 6 inches at this rate. I will definantely give the spring greens a try next time I think seeing as yours are growing better and faster on the cabbage vs privet.



Experiment seems to be failing. Looks like they are not moulting properly and very little in the way of droppings in the crix tub. Possibly not digesting efficiently. I'm putting most back onto privet , keeping them seperate to the privet guys though, but keeping a couple on collards, the two healthy looking ones.

I'm wondering if its possible that their humidity is a bit too low to moult although it was stated in the thread that humidity will kill them.

Going to move them into an exoterra 45cm viv with mesh top and leave crix lids off. Possibly a bit warmer and a touch more humid without being too much so.


----------



## Ben.M (Mar 2, 2008)

nicnet said:


> Experiment seems to be failing. Looks like they are not moulting properly and very little in the way of droppings in the crix tub. Possibly not digesting efficiently. I'm putting most back onto privet , keeping them seperate to the privet guys though, but keeping a couple on collards, the two healthy looking ones.
> 
> I'm wondering if its possible that their humidity is a bit too low to moult although *it was stated in the thread that humidity will kill them*.
> 
> Going to move them into an exoterra 45cm viv with mesh top and leave crix lids off. Possibly a bit warmer and a touch more humid without being too much so.


Mine might as well have been dowsed with water lol, the kitchen paper on the bottom was dripping wet, thats what killed them.
No doubt they will need some humidity to mould correctly but my earlier post was basically just to say dont overdo it :whistling2:


----------



## Ben.M (Mar 2, 2008)

This might help 

Samia cynthia - Eri Silkmoth - Ricini Moth | Keeping Insects


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Thanks for the advice and link, I lost the cabbage patch kids though. Under magnifyer they hadn't shed properly and so couldnt poop at all it seems.

Got control batch only on privet now to grow on, need to get some eggs out of this lot before I can risk any more experimentation.


----------



## repaddict (Oct 20, 2011)

I have also lost some due to incorrect shedding and they are on privet. I think your cabbage experiment went wrong due to low humidity and not the cabbage as such. Im still going to give the cabbage a go when mine lay eggs. Does anyone know if the spring cabbage is the same as kale?


----------



## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

last update for now.

Well I lost the privet ones also now, they just stopped eating and slowly died off, also had stuck sheds and no droppings. So It looks like humidity could have been the fctor after all as they were all in the same tubs and location.

I would appreciate some eggs though if anyone has any spare. I'll bring first lot up purely on privet next time and make sure I have the hang of their base husbandry first before any experiments on food. Bad decision on my part I think.

We live and learn though.


----------



## ExoticInsectsUK (Nov 15, 2008)

I think in the wild they would eat young leafs so it may be best to try this in spring time


----------

