# and you think your bad shops are bad...



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

went to a shop in the leighton buzzard area...
we'd driven out there specially, as the website made it sound like a great shop...

and this is what we found...


most of the water bowls empty
one water bowl in a viv with about 4-5 Adult brb's. it had a small amount of water in there, and the others looked dehydrated. On bark chippings only with no means of giving them any humidity..
small amount of water in the iggy viv, but was brown with poo, one large green iggy and one of another species (think desert but i'm not too sure) sharing one viv.
emaciated baby boas
a bowl of mealies, that had been there so long, there were more beetles than worms in there. We all know how long that can take.
4 large burms in one viv, with no water
about 10 pythons in one viv ~ one looking really fat ~ either gravid, or had eaten someone else...
King snake (no water again) with retained eye caps on both eyes (two sheds at least as he'd not shed much of his head at all and two different length layers could be seen, they were *very* wrinkled so weren't recent)
ALL bulbs were unguarded.
Special offers, such as the one advertised on the adult boas viv. You could buy a complete setup, specifically advertised for the adult boa, it included a *3* foot viv
No thought for animal safetly, e.g. adult common boa housed with another common boa roughly 1/2 it's size or less
mason being mason had to say something...
he asked if they regularly keep their snakes without water, and they said yeah, all the time! he asked how they maintain humidity in the rainbow viv with no water... and if they actually did any husbandry at all.. they asked him what he does for a living.. and he told them IT, so they just said well go back to your IT, you're not welcome in here...

we took some pics. we hear a lot of tales about bad shops.. but this one, i think tops them all. 


i will add this too: this is from their website ~ 

"************ is a family run business born from owner ***** ****'* lifelong passion for exotic animals and from his experience as Head Reptile Keeper at Windsor Safari Park and Ravensden Zoo.

The shop offers a large selection of reptiles, amphibians, arachnids and insects all either breed at the shop (we specialise in Kingsnakes, Ratsnakes and Boas) or hand picked from private collections.

Our intention is to offer a friendly happy environment for customers and animals, with sound advice and aftercare. Please drop by and see us, "​
if you PM us, you can have the name of the shop.


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Below is written by me, Mason, and are my personal thoughts.



We will be reporting them to both the RSPCA and the council that issued their license. Can anyone else think of anything useful we could do? These people just did not care, I did not lose my temper, I was not abusive, violent or threatening. The owner and his wife were both OK about no snakes having any water, I asked them a few questions and was simply kicked out. It really upset me to see animals in this condition,I actually found myself, on the drive home, regretting the fact that neither my credit card nor my vivs would allow me to take all the animals home so would really like input from people (perhaps you pet shop owners out there???) of ways to actually try and ensure something is done to improve the condition of these animals. Sami was massively upset but she is not confrontational, What upset me more than seeing the state of the animals was the fact that they were not bothered. When I said (as I was being 'helped' out the front door) that I will repot that the owners wife said "you do that darling".

I hope someone brings this thread to your attention Lainy, What I saw in that shop was ANIMAL CRUELTY, no thought given to correct husbandry, animal welfare or the way that the hobby is represented to both non hobbiests and people who can ONLY learn the hobby from the first reptile shop they buy their first reptile from.

Your shop and your attitude were disgusting, I would actually have been happier if you had at least tried to make an excuse or justify your lack of any husbandry.

I was also interested to note that the first question you asked me was what I did for a living, it makes me wonder if you have had awkward questions asked in the past? Perhaps by someone official? Either that or you were simply going down the route of assuming that I knew nothing (or at least less than you) about herpetology, reptile husbandry and the like?

I asked reasonable (if uncomfortable) questions in a perfectly acceptable way. Your first response was to simply ignore me and try to walk away, your second was to throw me out. Neither yourself (behind the counter and sopme 5-8 feet away from me) nor your completely silent husband ( would have felt threatened by me at any point. It was a shame you did not even attempt to answer, i think perhaps because you both know that the way you keep your animals is completely unacceptable.

I hope you come on here to publically defend yourself, I said as much of this as I could to your face so I cannot be accused of simply trying to stir things up on the net. I hope someone brings this to your attention and I would love a sensible response. My letters can be held back and my phone calls can be left unmade. I have no personal grudge and only wish to see the animals treated correctly, I'm sure at some point at least one of you knew what you were doing, things can be improved with zero cost to yourself.

I am sure your husband must know better, considering his 20 year career apparently including being the head of a major zoos reptile section (as per your website and the business card we took) must know that the husbandry you both seem to be happy with is appaling.

I would email this link to you myself but I don't want to be accused of anything.

Mason


----------



## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

Hi Mason hun!

I'm in the process of getting some kind of national change done...if you send me the name of the shop I can add it to the list. I will be getting government involved in this so I need a firm base to stand on!

Be wary of the RSPCA - they rarely do anything to be honest! The council department that issued the licence would have been trading standards - too they're useful. They even, in many cases, refuse to let you have a report of their visit!! In many cases they also side with the shop (saying they;re polite, very friendly, happy for them to look round etc).


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

btw ~ sorry we couldn't get more photos, these are just an example, and all we could get! 

we would have taken pics of all the vivs if we could have! 

every viv had something wrong. EVERY bulb unguarded ~ EVERY water bowl empty, or so dirty the reps wouldn't have drunk it ~ EVERY 'wet' hide bone dry. same substrate ~ wood chip ~ in every snake viv. 

basically ~just want to make the point that these pics are just a small example, and all we could get, the problem is much bigger than we can show.


----------



## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

Oh and give me the council's name and I will call up and make a further complaint, 2 is better than 1!!


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

thanks a lot  

PM sent. 

sami


----------



## CaseyM (Nov 8, 2006)

I feel the need to email a link suddenly, i cant be accused of anything : victory: Never been to the place.


----------



## Timid_Tiger (Mar 8, 2007)

Is it this one Serpentarium


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> My letters can be held back and my phone calls can be left unmade. I have no personal grudge and only wish to see the animals treated correctly, I'm sure at some point at least one of you knew what you were doing, things can be improved with zero cost to yourself.


Report them, don't withold anything as they clearly don't give a sh1t about what they're doing, there's lives at stake here. Poor animals, the first pic looks like there's no room for them to move there's so much snake in a little viv. 

Someone who supposedly has the experience he claims to would KNOW that their husbandary techniques are poor to the point of neglect/cruelty. There's NO excuses for that IMO.


----------



## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi 

I've made my feelings about pet shops very clear on other posts on this forum.

At best, pet shops are nothing more than dealers (read middle-men) that are an extra (and I believe largely unneccesary) link in the food chain between the breeder and the person who buys the animal in question. They maintain their position in the chain by either charging over the odds for captive bred stock, or charging CB prices for CF and WC stock.

At their worst they are the RSPCA's most potent weapon in their war against the keeping of reptiles as pets in this country. 

I look forward to the day when people stop buying animals from pet shops and decide that they want to;

A) Save money
B) Get specialist advice rather than "jack of all trades" opinions
C) Meet the parents of the animal they're buying
D) Get accurate hatch and feeding data on the animal they are buying
E) See how their animal really should be kept, not how it is kept if you have 500 animals to fit into a space not much bigger that the average double garage.

And you do all of the above by buying your reptiles from captive breeders!

Just my opinion

Stuart


----------



## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Dont bother with councils, RSPCA or any other crap. 

Go directly to the local enviromental health officer and write an itemised list of everything wrong. 

Fine every thing you can, even things like tripping hazzards, or fire extinguishers etc and they will inspect. 

If it isnt satisfactory then they will either get them to sort it out, (improvement order), or revoke their license. 

Dan


----------



## Mitch (Mar 3, 2007)

Good luck with the local enviromental health officer. Tried that and all the rest. Got nowhere. 
I am amazed to so that these people can make money with attitudes like that.
One of my local shops had a cham, toads and whites all in the same tank?? About 10 assorted snakes all in one 2ft tank including, corns, red tail boas, hognose, sheds and poop all over?? Substrate was moving, when I looked it was full of insects, beatles, u name it. 
They have been trading like that for ages. Its a great shame but what can you do when all they get is a warning then maybe a followup visit a few weeks later.
I always seem to go on about shops but its hard not too when you see things like that. Im not going to do it anymore. No point when nothing is done to prevent this kind of treatment or neglect. Only way to hurt them is in the pocket. Name and shame em I say.


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Fangio said:


> there's lives at stake here. Poor animals, the first pic looks like there's no room for them to move there's so much snake in a little viv.



Not so much. SO MANY. Large adult pythons, we couldn't accurately count the heads, but there were at least 4. One massive one, presumably either an XXL female, a gravid snake (their webiste boasts about breeding projects), or a snake that had eaten another. I have a crap memory for sizes but i think either a three of foot foot viv.

Four adult burms viv sharing, large iggies viv sharing, BRBs viv sharing, adult boas sharing a small viv (the one with the advert for a 3 foot setup that can come with or without an adult boa) The mis matched sized boas were also advertised at a reduced price if brought as a pair. The smaller, presumably male snake looked to be a minimum of 1 year younger, he was around half the length and weight.

I don't think there was one viv without many small pieces of shed all over the place, without humidity shedding was obviously a problem, a soon to be medical concern for one king snake.

I think you are right, i think hoping they will impove as a result of my our words is a bit arrogant and pointless. Thank you.

Mason


----------



## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

the press is the only way forward i reckon..


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

CaseyM said:


> I feel the need to email a link suddenly, i cant be accused of anything : victory: Never been to the place.


Hope it brings a response, I really do. I would not have been so eager, it was my first and only visit afterall, but they didn't even try to make an excuse. Mind you, it was plainly obvious to all parties concerned there was no excuses to be made, anyone who knew anything about tyhe hobby who walked through those doors could see it was certainly not just a day or two, multiple poos, shed in all the vivs The brown scummy stuff that happens in repti-rock type water bowls if left alone, bone dry moss (where any was even provided). It takes days and days for these things to happen/build up. and they know that keepers know that. Our photos could have been a lot more damming, but Sami was visably upset and just wanted to leave. I turned around when she was outside and went in to say my piece. It lasted no longer than 2 minutes before I was escorted out (I didn't try to resist, I wasn't asked ot leave first, simply shown the door and was 'walked' out of it, I don't want them to think i'm trying to imply any kind of assault).

Mason


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I think you are right, i think hoping they will impove as a result of my our words is a bit arrogant and pointless. Thank you.
> 
> Mason


Arrogant no.......naieve maybe.

As Dan says detail everything possible you can remember. E-mail the photo's you took also. Personally if I felt this strongly that cruelty was in place in a pet shop then I'd notify ALL of the organizations already mentioned not just one. Put a follow-up call in also to make sure they're taking your complaint seriously. If something is truely wrong then the EHO holds power of instant closure though 9times out of 10 they'll serve with an improvement notice and a follow-up visit.

Let us know what happens.

Matt.


----------



## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

aww i want those macklotts in the first pic..they are pretty
shop looks bad grrrr


----------



## slither61 (Nov 18, 2006)

HI all,

Lets be fair not all pet shops are bad, it is the same with most things a few bad apples spoil it for the majority.
The more people complain and pester the their local council then something may be done.


slither61 :snake::snake::snake:


----------



## YELLOWFISH (Mar 30, 2007)

Is the shop in question a member of a trade association? Us fishkeepers have the OATA to complain to if a member retailer is behaving badly.


----------



## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

YELLOWFISH said:


> Is the shop in question a member of a trade association? Us fishkeepers have the OATA to complain to if a member retailer is behaving badly.


never thought of that, nice idea


----------



## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Whilst the local council licensing dept do have a duty to investigate any claims of cruilty or miss treatment and can revoke a licence, As I see it , this is just such a classic situation that the new AWB is designed to stop.

Under the bill, owners/keepers have the legal responsibilty to ensure the good welfare of any animals in thier care, this includes suitable housing and access to food and water.

In the case you mention, this is certainly not the case.

So, may be worth setting the ball rolling with a chat to DEFRA, and take thier advice on what to do.

Whatever route is taken, prolonged witholding of basic life sustaning items (water) is illegal under the bill


----------



## yellow_python (May 14, 2007)

Why keep it to PM's shops like this need to be named.

We are allowed to name the good so name the bad, they cant just take the good.

NAME AND SHAME


----------



## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Apparently there was a thread before with the shop being named.. It caused arguements and the thread had to be closed down.


----------



## yellow_rat_gal (Mar 24, 2007)

I'm pretty sure I know this shop and a lot of people in the luton area know it well and avoid it like the plague - apart from anything else the whole shop is riddled with mites!


----------



## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

they have been reported many times before and nothing has been done, infact looking at the pictures they keep getting worse.. there is something else.. but i'll pm you..
Owen


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

hope u liked our place more than theirs lol. thanks for dropping by. : victory:


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

yes dave, your place was great! :no1:

and thanks a lot!  

sami


----------



## Clones (May 5, 2007)

These people dont deserve such fair treatment, you should make more of a fuss, naming them etc. If i had been with you we would have made a much bigger sceane while sami sat in the car out of ear shot. Need to make such a fuss while there that they have to have the police remove you, then you talk to the local press about how it was so bad in there you lost your mind after the answers you got from owners were not exeptable. Never get anywhere playing by the rules, just have to do the right thing sometimes even if it causes you trouble in the long run.
Good te hear atleast there is some quaility shops in the area where people can go when in the know.


----------



## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Someone pm the shop details to me please ill get a press release done  will also be able to promote RFUK if thats ok with everyone ?


----------



## Clones (May 5, 2007)

Faith said:


> Someone pm the shop details to me please ill get a press release done  will also be able to promote RFUK if thats ok with everyone ?


hehe sounds like just whats needed. nice1


----------



## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Go faith! go faith


----------



## cryosi (Dec 4, 2006)

I hope something in the long run can be done to stop these shops from doing this, there should be a better way to police these shops. : victory:


----------



## rachy (Nov 18, 2006)

Im tempted to go visit the shop later to see if anything has changed!


----------



## Rainwater (Apr 18, 2007)

everyone PM me your bad shops!!


----------



## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

why?


----------



## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I just can't understand with all the negative publicity the RSPCA and other groups have put out about reptiles, why the hell councils are not being seriously pressured to tighten up their actions and licensing requirements.

I know my shop is clean and everything well fed and watered.. so I would more than welcome as a shop owner tighter restrictions on licensing (although hopefully it wouldn't mean bigger fees because cardiff is already one of the most expensive councils in the UK.. ) 

I know my council seems pretty strict, the vet asked me all the right questions and seemed genuinely interested in the reptiles, and the inspectors have made several follow up visits since I have opened, just in passing to check that all procedures have been followed. I still think that even my council could be a lot stricter and have better guidelines for shops selling exotics.. there is a lot of information about selling puppies/kittens and a lot of restrictions, for example.. and even birds, and rodents have density numbers and some regulations... but exotics it always just says "within reason.." which can be interpereted as just about anything.

I really hope that if this is reported the local council begins to take notice, but perhaps an organisation like DEFRA or even the press putting pressure on them.. would help.


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

I took a sausage roll that was out of date back to the coop and they wouldnt refund me. They are a bad shop.


----------



## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Tops said:


> I took a sausage roll that was out of date back to the coop and they wouldnt refund me. They are a bad shop.


People at my work buy food.. eat most of it then send it back claiming it's cold and they want a new one.


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

Trice said:


> People at my work buy food.. eat most of it then send it back claiming it's cold and they want a new one.


thats fairly random


----------



## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

why thank you


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

Oh dear complaining about a shop the entire pet trade is crap.

These animals should be where they originally came from end of.


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> Oh dear complaining about a shop the entire pet trade is crap.
> 
> These animals should be where they originally came from end of.


and the horses and lambs should be free to roam with the lions.
Get a life troll.


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

I go out to see these animals in the wild my friend .

not some guy who keeps them in my living room you get a life ma man.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats looks like another appaling petshop and to just kick you out without even listening just goes to show that they dont give a damn, whats their website?


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

martyn said:


> I go out to see these animals in the wild my friend .
> 
> not some guy who keeps them in my living room you get a life ma man.


I dont think this is the place for you if those are your views, your quite right to belive what you want but making comments that sound like your an anti is not going to go down well.


----------



## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

martyn said:


> Oh dear complaining about a shop the entire pet trade is crap.
> 
> These animals should be where they originally came from end of.


:lol2::roll2::roll2::roll2::roll2::roll2:

I do love constructive criticism, it brings so much new scope and depth to a discussion....


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

martyn said:


> These animals should be where they originally came from end of.


what still at the breeders?


----------



## yellow_rat_gal (Mar 24, 2007)

SiUK said:


> what still at the breeders?


Ya gotta think, what would Nige etc do with all those snakes?!?


----------



## Andy b 1 (May 14, 2007)

martyn said:


> not some guy who keeps them in my living room you get a life ma man.


i keep mine outside not in a living room :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

we should rip his heart out through his ass and shove it down his throat!


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

when i was in costa rica i watched these animals being packed i ve seen how they are treated and a girl asked would people in england still buy them or support this trade if they had a clue ?

yes because they are greedy.

You slag of shops but you buy these animals and keep them. you want what these shops are selling.

jesus get over yourselfs.


----------



## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

not true, most of us will only buy from good shops where the animals are well looked after, also most of us avoid WC animals.. some people liek you say will buy from the shops anyway, that is why they are still in business.. and some people will buy WC animals simply because they are cheaper but at the end of the day theres nothing we can do about that..


----------



## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

and to be honest i think its you that needs to get over yourself mate..lol.. you sound like you have some kinda god complex or something


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

we don't slag off all shops. just the really bad ones. 

we went to about 5 shops while we were down there... and this one was appalling. 

the rest were fine, and one was really great. 

not all shops should be closed down. just the ones that obviously don't care. 
a lot of us do get stuff straight from the breeder, being as there are so many contacts here, but some people don't have that luxury, so have to go to a shop. 
it just helps if we point out the bad ones. 

something else that was wierd... while we were in the shop to begin with, and being ignored by the staff, they had a phone call...
it was something to do with someone wanting to buy the business. 

and she said she would never sell her business....

maybe she should..... to someone who cares about her 'stock' and actually knows what they are doing. 

sami


----------



## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

Which other shops did you visit? I dont know many in that part of the woods...


----------



## CaseyM (Nov 8, 2006)

martyn said:


> when i was in costa rica i watched these animals being packed i ve seen how they are treated and a girl asked would people in england still buy them or support this trade if they had a clue ?
> 
> yes because they are greedy.
> 
> ...


Attention - Please dont feed the Anti.


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> I go out to see these animals in the wild my friend .
> 
> not some guy who keeps them in my living room you get a life ma man.


ive seen animals in the wild too.
Nearly hit a deer just the other day and im pretty sure i heard a toad go squish.


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

I go on forums for the entertainment , People who argue about stuff they don't know about . Just like at IHS meetings. Strike up a convo about anything other then keeping snakes you get a blank face staring at ya.

ive said what i ve said does'nt matter if you agree or not.

Now give it a rest .


----------



## yellow_rat_gal (Mar 24, 2007)

Johelian said:


> Which other shops did you visit? I dont know many in that part of the woods...


There are loads in the herts/beds area, just look on google or yell!


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

martyn said:


> when i was in costa rica i watched these animals being packed i ve seen how they are treated and a girl asked would people in england still buy them or support this trade if they had a clue ?
> 
> yes because they are greedy.
> 
> ...


spot the fellow herp keeper... NOT !!!!

so you saw animals being packed in costa rica.. how about going to china and seeing them skin live dogs, whose fur is sold into england as "fake trim" on kids jewellery... 

or how about going to a private uk keepers facility, and seeing the work being done with endangered species, seeing as the people in places like madagascar seem intent on destroying 85% of the main habitat that the reptiles there live in?

but oh no.. typical anti-keeping veiw that all animals in trade today are wild caught and packed in boxes by the hundred...

ok.. lets take one example...

the New Caledonian Crested Gecko. a species that was thought to be extinct until 1994, when it was re-discovered in the wild.

the removal of wild caught crested geckos is prohibited, but before export was controled, biologists studying the species exported a few individuals for breeding and study. From this, captive bred lines of Crested Gecko were established into the USA and Europe

since 1994,the crested gecko has exploded in captivity, and many many 1000s are breed each year... the crested gecko, thanks to biologists taking wild caught animals and getting them breeding in capivity, will NEVER be endangered again..

13 years ago this little guys ancestors were critically endangered.. 2007 here he is hatching in my back bedroom in england..



















and first contact with a human - such an evil beast as to give his ancestors the chance of living...










now he sits with 8 brothers and sisters, parasite free, with no danger from predations, and good quaility food on tap 24-7...

such a hard life being a captive gecko!

people who spout crap like the costa rican thing, do not know their arse from their elbow, without justifiable WC specimens, and without dedicated keepers, there would be a lot less variety in the animal world today

N


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2007)

Well put Nerys : victory:


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Mmm funny that... what are people at International Herp Society meetings likely to talk about? cars? space ships? oh now... lets see they might talk about reptiles!!!

*DOH*

N




martyn said:


> I go on forums for the entertainment , People who argue about stuff they don't know about . Just like at IHS meetings. Strike up a convo about anything other then keeping snakes you get a blank face staring at ya.
> 
> ive said what i ve said does'nt matter if you agree or not.
> 
> Now give it a rest .


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

oh whats the point , im so sick of you reptile keepers who think ya know everything my mate warned me about this.


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

lol lol lol

just out of curiosity...

if you are "sick of reptile keepers" then why join a reptile forum? if not just to wind us up?

we don't know everything, but oddly, as far as reptile keeping goes, between us on the forums, we do know a fair bit yes

which is clearly more than you do my sweet!

Nerys


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> oh whats the point , im so sick of you reptile keepers who think ya know everything my mate warned me about this.


your mate warned you about this?

I think your full of rubbish and probably about 15


----------



## CaseyM (Nov 8, 2006)

martyn said:


> oh whats the point , im so sick of you reptile keepers who think ya know everything my mate warned me about this.


 
Should have listened to your mate then shouldnt you.

If you hit the red square with the white cross in it, top right hand corner of the screen it'll close this window sweet. Noone said you have to be here if you dont like it.


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

Its not just about breeding snakes why don't we have a convo about snake evolution or evolutionary genetics or the molecular structure of reptile venoms ? 

My mate who is 21 and the most knowledgable person i ve met told me ppl on forums don't like to hear things they dont wanna hear whether they are true or not. In fact im sre some of you have seen him.


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> Its not just about breeding snakes why don't we have a convo about snake evolution or evolutionary genetics or the molecular structure of reptile venoms ?
> 
> My mate who is 21 and the most knowledgable person i ve met told me ppl on forums don't like to hear things they dont wanna hear whether they are true or not. In fact im sre some of you have seen him.


your 21 year old mate is the most knowledgable person you have ever met?
I guess you dont get out much.
Not a people person?


----------



## yellow_rat_gal (Mar 24, 2007)

if the most knowledgable person you know is 21 then you must know some idiots. I'm only 22 and I know enough to know I'm no expert! Get a grip.


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

He's not like you lot i can't even be bothered to write the stuff he studies.
i ve met oshea and all them and this guy has diverse knowledge .o shea is just some guy into snakes.

It was this guy who i phoned up to ask about the mystery toad everyone was having problems with on here. i said this toad comes from these countries and straight away he answered. i promise you would not have got that responce from anyone else.


----------



## nicoleparish (Jun 14, 2007)

that made no sense.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

martyn said:


> oh whats the point , im so sick of you reptile keepers who think ya know everything my mate warned me about this.


I got a good suggestion then leave


----------



## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

If you want to talk about all that stuff, start a thread.

Thats what forums are for, discussion, you wana talk about something your free to start a thread.

You may well know the most brainy person alive, but he sure hasnt taught you how to have a discussion.

Thats my scrap for the anti!


----------



## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

martyn said:


> He's not like you lot i can't even be bothered to write the stuff he studies.
> i ve met oshea and all them and this guy has diverse knowledge .o shea is just some guy into snakes.
> 
> It was this guy who i phoned up to ask about the mystery toad everyone was having problems with on here. i said this toad comes from these countries and straight away he answered. i promise you would not have got that responce from anyone else.


ok as for this have u ever heard of google? how do you know your mate didnt just google the answere? there is and will never be someone who knows absolutly everything about every animals on the planet its an i
impossibility.

sorry jusy my view


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

on a serious not you say you cant be bothered to say what your mate studies, why not? and so you have met O Shea well whos these "all them" you speak of. You seem like a troll, you talk about people not talking about the evolution of snakes and venom compounds well as pure jurrasic said the whole point in a forum is to talk about what you want, so why not start a thread and im sure people will join you in these discussions.

You also seem to talk about the pet trade like it used to be, theres alot of captive bred animals out there now and very good pet shops and breeders, also all imported animals are checked at airports and ports so there are certain regulations that they have to follow.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Complicated Stuff this eh?*

Hi Marty/n,

Like you, l am not a herper or a reppie, or an amphib person at all. But l am keen to see you start off the thread that enables the nerd bods on this site whom do know their stuff as well as the livestock they keep respond to:

"Its not just about breeding snakes why don't we have a convo about snake evolution or evolutionary genetics or the molecular structure of reptile venoms ? 

My mate who is 21 and the most knowledgable person i ve met told me ppl on forums don't like to hear things they dont wanna hear whether they are true or not. In fact im sre some of you have seen him."

Your friend at '21' is he younger than you or do you 'idolise him?'.

He may well be knowledgeable and admittedly you did state that he is the most knowledgable person that you have met, does not necessarily mean that he is more knowledgable, just smarter than you surely?

Forums can be annoying places if you find yourself in one and have not got a clue how to handle yourself except for s******y and snideness - do you find that? The reason l ask, is that from what your writing style dictates at present is that 'yes' you are younger than 21, and that you really have nothing of any true intrinsic value to add to this discussion nor to be frank any discussion.

Are you an anti? No, they can be stupid and banal, but at present you are only being anal - but please enlighten me with your writings - l add - your writings on what you study - not your 21 year olds study, but yours, and tell us how we can better the environment while you are at it.

Forgive my own writing style, but l do like interesting writers and their styles, sadly you are not one of them, for there is nothing genuine about you nor your grasp of anything in this forum. And most assuredly nothing worth noting and writing home about, however l am gladly proven wrong if so required - but only you at this present time can do such not just to me but to the others that you have insulted with your hapless wanderings throughout this thread.

So bring it on:

Its not just about breeding snakes why don't we have a convo about snake evolution or evolutionary genetics or the molecular structure of reptile venoms ? 

Looking forward to your chosen topic and as a novice truly looking to be enlightened.

Rory Matier TSKA-Rainbow.com


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

N


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

For once I just cant be bothered... Get a grip troll. (and i dont mean on your 'friends' hand)

Dunno whats happening to me.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Still awaiting your thread about Nucleur Serpentines?*

Hi Marty, 

You dont mind if l call you that do you?

It is a tad too familiar perhaps but hell, we are all friends here at the end of the day eh?

Looking at what you committed to this thread, l am seriously looking forward to your topics and the opening of a serious discussion:

But let us look at what you have contributed so far to this thread shall we?
[Hope you don't mind but l have edited and corrected the grammar- may have missed some as there were so many]

So on a topic about the poor quality of a pet shop which admittedly prior to your arival was really starting to have some solid contribution to it anyway prior to you killing it.

"Oh dear complaining about a shop the entire pet trade is crap".

"These animals should be where they originally came from end of.
I go out to see these animals in the wild my friend ".

"Not some guy who keeps them in my living room you get a life my man". [Confused here, so you have someone elses snakes in your living room?]


"When i was in Costa Rica I watched these animals being packed I 've seen how they are treated and a girl asked would people in England still buy them or support this trade if they had a clue ?

[NB: Was this a local lass?]

"Yes because they are greedy".

"You slag off shops but you buy these animals and keep them. You want what these shops are selling.

Jesus get over yourselves.


I go on forums for the entertainment , People who argue about stuff they don't know about . Just like at IHS meetings. Strike up a 'convo' [would this be conversation?] about anything other then keeping snakes you get a blank face staring at you.

I've said what I' ve said doesn't matter if you agree or not.

Now give it a rest .
"Oh whats the point , I'm so sick of you reptile keepers who think you know everything my mate warned me about this.

"It's not just about breeding snakes why don't we have a convo about snake evolution or evolutionary genetics or the molecular structure of reptile venoms ? "

"My mate who is 21 and the most knowledgable person I' ve met told me people on forums don't like to hear things they dont want to hear whether they are true or not. In fact I'm sure some of you have seen him.

He's not like you lot I can't even be bothered to write the stuff he studies.
i ve met Oshea and all them and this guy has diverse knowledge. Oshea is just some guy into snakes. [Is this like saying Irwin was some guy into Rays?]

It was this guy who I phoned up to ask about the mystery toad everyone was having problems with on here. iIsaid this toad comes from these countries and straight away he answered. I promise you would not have got that response from anyone else.

[Curious, your colleague has a firm grasp on amphibians - were you able to give him photographs to help him in his struggle?]

Anyway, that so far is your valued contribution - so trust me when l say l am looking forwards to your writing style on something a tad more exciting.

Rory Matier TSKA-Rainbow.com


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

Yeh i do kind of idolize him because when people bang on about older and experianced people and then think that the younger ones are not as good if you know whai mean i think of how good he is and is proof that the younger people can be as good if not better then the older guys. 

He is a quiet and shy young lad and you may have even met him. He has been to IHS meetings but sits there and does'nt say much as he is polite to listen even though he has much to say. I wont tell you his name as im sure he wouldnt want me to.

This lad studies herpetology of all aspects , Snakes , lizards , crocs and alligators amphibians of all kinds . Aside from all this he studies physiology of all taxa . paleontology and evolution , genetics , cell biology, molecular evolutionary genetics. Toxicology , Ecology . population genetics. and loads more i cant even remember myself . 

As for the guy that asked if he googled the answer, no , i phoned him he was no where near a computer and answered my question quiker then any search engine.


----------



## CaseyM (Nov 8, 2006)

Nice one Rory :no1:


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> Yeh i do kind of idolize him because when people bang on about older and experianced people and then think that the younger ones are not as good if you know whai mean i think of how good he is and is proof that the younger people can be as good if not better then the older guys.
> 
> He is a quiet and shy young lad and you may have even met him. He has been to IHS meetings but sits there and does'nt say much as he is polite to listen even though he has much to say. I wont tell you his name as im sure he wouldnt want me to.
> 
> ...


 
If hes so fab, why do we need you?


----------



## tigger79 (Aug 22, 2006)

Well said Nerys n Rory, Wot a muppet, Martyn ya need to get a life and find something else to fill your tiny mind with and leave those who seriously wanna learn about and look after there reps alone,


----------



## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

yellow_rat_gal said:


> There are loads in the herts/beds area, just look on google or yell!


I know, but I would still like to see which in particular they thought so highly of.


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Oh dear Martyn. You truely know how to make an ass of yourself publically:lol2:

Nevermind.......keeps the rest of us amused I suppose!

I'm wondering now how things have progressed with this? Have the phonecalls been made etc?


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

How much were the BRB i there cheap, ill try save some...​


----------



## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Only comment to Martyn, I look forward to your own threads for a truely in depth discussion.

With regards to this shop, you could contact Eddie Munt from REPTA for some advice.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Gods at large*

""Yeh i do kind of idolize him because when people bang on about older and experianced people and then think that the younger ones are not as good if you know whai mean i think of how good he is and is proof that the younger people can be as good if not better then the older guys. 

He is a quiet and shy young lad and you may have even met him. He has been to IHS meetings but sits there and does'nt say much as he is polite to listen even though he has much to say. I wont tell you his name as im sure he wouldnt want me to.

This lad studies herpetology of all aspects , Snakes , lizards , crocs and alligators amphibians of all kinds . Aside from all this he studies physiology of all taxa . paleontology and evolution , genetics , cell biology, molecular evolutionary genetics. Toxicology , Ecology . population genetics. and loads more i cant even remember myself . 

As for the guy that asked if he googled the answer, no , i phoned him he was no where near a computer and answered my question quiker then any search engine"".

Hello again Marty, 

You know it is not wrong to ‘idolise’ anyone. But try to remember that one persons advice or opinion is not the only one out there.

However in your case l feel that this advice might prove viable and valuable to you now and for times later in life.

There is knowledge and then there is experience, and vice versa. A youngster may be considered experienced to a certain degree, but will never be considered really experienced until she/he is older.

But they can possess more knowledge than some of the older generation, especially if they are studying where upon a wealth of knowledge and modern documentation is thrust before them to absorb.

But you should never knock those who clearly have more experience than you, for some where along your line you may need to find something out and their memory may serve them well to the day of the 13th July 2007 when you single handledly stood out like a sore thumb ridiculing the hobby!

In perilous political times such as these with legislation and governmental change challenging not just this hobby but the ability to keep a pet worm in the future, perhaps people like yourself should be best kept locked away in a small dark cupboard or at best perhaps learn to look into the story line first and passing some qualitable comment and if needs arise and feel they must object, then back up your friggin claim! 

Your ‘knowledgeable yet studious’ friend instead of sitting silently in the IHS meetings should raise his voice a little higher and why not speak to Alan Wilkie and suggest that he may write for the Herptile, the IHS’s own publication – perhaps he already does as you keep on making reference to so many knowing him – well l don’t.

Also, this comment you made about people looking blank when another species husbandry is ventured, bollocks – you know not of what you speak.

Many reptile and herptile keepers manage extremely well, other collections of animals such as primates, mammals, rodents, aquaria, avian – the list is endless. So perhaps your friend should learn to raise his voice higher or at least learn how to address questions.

There are more reptile and herper keepers that maintain other species than there are mammal and rodent keepers that collect reptiles and so on.

Also, are you actually a keeper yourself? I suppose l could look back on your history and find out what other dribbles you have made reference to in this forum, but quite frankly l can not be bothered – so am asking you direct.

Another aspect, this is a forum, do you actually understand the concept of such a word? Look up and check your history perhaps?

Why should youngsters be listened to? 

If they hold attitudes such as yours? 

This is the age old problem with forums – they set out to attract keepers, collectors, enthusiasts, of course hecklers – [but we deserve better ones than this – mind you l guess you are a trainee heckler] – but what happens is that little legs come on board and think they know everything! Sod the experience, sod the knowledge, sod the keeper! We know all!!

Your friend is more knowledgeable so you say – do you tell him your days’ work on the forums that you frequent for ‘entertainment?’ And is he so impressed by your boldness?

Here is a tip, why do you not just apologise for pretending to be a buffoon today, and say that you are looking to learn from keepers of all walks because if we do not deflate useless apathists such as yourself – then it does not matter about what the young of today know, for there will be nothing left to diagnose tomorrow.

Finally, if you are going to act as a voice broker for another – try to understand the basic principals of sales – you do not sell the steak ‘ma man’ you sell the sizzle. When you understand that fully, you will know how that refers to this forum.

Rory Matier TSKA-Rainbow.com


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

Voice an opinion and everyone goes of on one. Anyone with beef pm me thats all ya have to do .

As for this pet shop thing. Do ya go into shops with a white glove on or something. If you have a problem tell them not a public forum maybe it will help them but you are not helping by bringing it to everyones attention because its not like you can do anything about it.


----------



## eowyn (Mar 2, 2007)

martyn said:


> Voice an opinion and everyone goes of on one. Anyone with beef pm me thats all ya have to do .
> 
> As for this pet shop thing. Do ya go into shops with a white glove on or something. If you have a problem tell them not a public forum maybe it will help them but you are not helping by bringing it to everyones attention because its not like you can do anything about it.


I had followed this with milldly amused, if silent cynicism till now, but really, have you actually read this thread other than your own inane ramblings?


----------



## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

pm me i have th numer the a vrey good RSPCA inspector that will sort this out ASAP


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

martyn said:


> Voice an opinion and everyone goes of on one. Anyone with beef pm me thats all ya have to do .
> 
> As for this pet shop thing. Do ya go into shops with a white glove on or something. If you have a problem tell them not a public forum maybe it will help them but you are not helping by bringing it to everyones attention because its not like you can do anything about it.



Have you even read the thread?


I will make it nice and clear for you.

*I did tell her, face to face, in person. 

I was ignored and ejected from the shop.*






****************

Can I make another suggestion? How about we play "IGNORE THE MUPPET"

you never get anywhere feeding trolls and this thread will go no where but the locksmiths if this continues.

Mason


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

eowyn said:


> I had followed this with milldly amused, if silent cynicism till now, but really, have you actually read this thread other than your own inane ramblings?


:lol2:


----------



## yellow_python (May 14, 2007)

so here we have someone that idolises a 21 year, obviously kisses his ass and acts/talks just like a kid ''anyone with beef'' :lol2::lol2:

Grow up and come back when YOU actually know something not just taking the word of your friend:bash:


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

snakelover said:


> How much were the BRB i there cheap, ill try save some...​


Problem is, Snakelover... if you buy those BRBs from the shop, you're REWARDING the shop for keeping them in those conditions. You're showing the shop they don't have to keep the animals correctly or even keep them HEALTHY ... because well-meaning people will pay full price to try to save them.

Now, if you can get the shop owner to GIVE them to you - even if it's just to rehabilitate them for the shop, and then return them - you've taught them that they can't get full price for unhealthy animals.


----------



## rachy (Nov 18, 2006)

The funny thing is i used to use this shop on a regular basis before it went downhill , he used to slate the shop down the road for not keeping their reps right!!
i now use the shop down the road for odd bits , i buy most online , if i spot something thats not quite right they are approachable enough to talk to and will actually put things right!
Im going to the bad shop tomorrow purely to nose and see if anything has changed


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

yellow python , I don't kiss his ass it just he is everything ppl like u would like to be now , if you have anything to say PM me this thread may aswell be over.

He told me about forums like this , that stupid people, that sit on there computers all day and talk about silly things and moan about stuff because moaning is all they can do.

I see his point now.


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

martyn said:


> yellow python , I don't kiss his ass it just he is everything ppl like u would like to be now , if you have anything to say PM me this thread may aswell be over.
> 
> *He told me about forums like this , that stupid people, that sit on there computers all day and talk about silly things and moan about stuff because moaning is all they can do.*
> 
> *I see his point now.*


yes.....yes you are

If you don't like this thread or this forum then don't post here it's that simple. Otherwise shut up already and let everyone discuss and interact in a friendly way as usual.....you can even join in with proper discussion if you like.

....and not OMG I KNOW SOMEONE WHO'S GREAT!!!111!!! YOU ALL KNOW NOTHING.

There's many years of keeping many species between us and a lot of help/knowledge to share. No-one knows everything about anything - anyone who claims to is an arrogant t**t


----------



## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

martyn said:


> yellow python , I don't kiss his ass it just he is everything ppl like u would like to be now , if you have anything to say PM me this thread may aswell be over.
> 
> He told me about forums like this , that stupid people, that sit on there computers all day and talk about silly things and moan about stuff because moaning is all they can do.
> 
> I see his point now.


So far I havent seen you raise a single valid point on this thread. 
You have just moaned and tried to provoke people into responding.
You openly admit you dont like us keeping reptiles as pets yet you 'helped to pack them with a girl'
Well done.
I dont think, however that it is your place to arrive, decide we are all idiots and condemn us for 'talking about silly things and moaning about stuff because moaning is all we can do'. Especially as you have done no better. When you have something worthwhile to say, maybe people will listen.
Im not sure I want to be everything your friend is. He is a poor judge of character, thats for sure.
Tops : victory:


----------



## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

> He told me about forums like this , that stupid people, that sit on there computers all day and talk about silly things and moan about stuff because moaning is all they can do.
> 
> I see his point now.


And now you're a member of one of those forums doing exactly the same thing :Na_Na_Na_Na: 

Anyone else see the irony there? At least we're here cos we want to be. You're here because you don't seem to have anyplace else to go...I mean, what other reason could you have for coming on here to hang out on one of 'these stupid forums' other than you have nothing else to do but be a troll?

Now, I *do* have better things to do than reply to a sadly ignorant little troll so I'll be off and doing them, byeeee.


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Stubby said:


> And now you're a member of one of those forums doing exactly the same thing :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Anyone else see the irony there?


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/matthewthirlwell/irony2mv6.jpg


----------



## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

i keep coming back to this, and finding an extra few pages! 

firstly ~ it is talked about on here, as there are ppl who make a difference. 

one or two phone calls may not, but if enough people make the calls, then something may be done. 

so, i'm just gonna ignore you martyn, and your pointless trolling. there were some constructive ideas, and help from people before half of this thread turned in to spam from you. what you are now talking about has nothing to do with the start of the thread ~ so how bout you get your own thread, get off mine if you have nothing positive to contribute and learn how to use forums. 

one basic *guideline* STAY ON TOPIC. Troll. 

so... back to topic. 

i saw someone ask who we thought so highly of.. that would be Ameyzoo, as the shop i liked best, and actually, the only one we bought something at, even if it was only a copy of reptile care, and a pen! 

Luton Reptile Rescue was also really cool, but obviously, they are not a shop. 

i have had many PM's regarding the issue of the appalling conditions in the shop (NOT one of the ones mentioned above), and i hope between us, we can get something done. 

sami


----------



## rachy (Nov 18, 2006)

If someone can get a name of somebody at the council we can all write letters to the same person , surely then whoever recieves the letters will get all of them and have to do something , i will ring the council monday , im pretty sure south beds council will cover it.


----------



## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> i saw someone ask who we thought so highly of.. that would be Ameyzoo, as the shop i liked best, and actually, the only one we bought something at, even if it was only a copy of reptile care, and a pen!
> 
> Luton Reptile Rescue was also really cool, but obviously, they are not a shop.


Thank you Sami  Thats one of the few ones Ive actually been to in the area as well! They were really helpful with my questions too, Ive called them up on more than one occasion for advice.

I feel a bit sad about the sorry state of affairs at the shop in question here, as Ive been there a couple of times and the chap that owns the shop has always been quite kindly...but I do agree with you. I did notice a big change between visits though, and based on the last visit, Im pretty sure I wouldnt go back. The first time I went, I wasnt displeased with the state of the livestock etc, everything seemed quite clean and well-looked after...the second time, I thought the place was dingy and poorly maintained. I think a part of me wants to feel sorry for them based on that first visit, but there are really no excuses for letting things get into that kind of state.


----------



## rachy (Nov 18, 2006)

I went to the shop today and im happy to report that all but 1 viv had fresh clean water in clean water bowls , vivs were tidier than normal and not nearly as much skin in them , they were still over crowded and the burms water bowl was no where near big enough.
It seems they must have read the thread and taken action , lets hope it continues!
The meal worms were fresh too!!


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Martyn, I would like to apologise on behalf of everyone on this forum for our ridiculing and belittling of your good self, and ur friend.... and the sheer volumes of herpetological knowledge at your combined fingertips. I shall confer with as many people as i can on the forum and as an apology we shall arrange the civil ceremony for you and your beloved. providing you do the difficult part and admit you love him and want to marry him.

and a little word of advice.

reptile keepers do NOT need to know EVERYTHING.... they only need to know about what they currently have in their care and to research thouroughly any planned purchase of livestock.

Also i dont personally know many people on this forum but i can tell you they arent stupid, and wouldn't by WC animals unless they knew what they were doing.

also whereabouts in Costa Rica were you? because the business of exporting livestock from central america is fairly secretive, isnt exactly advertised. you cant just pop down and visit them as you would say.... a zoo. also the girl told you we (the herpetological community) are greedy? are you trying to tell me that she was packing those snakes out of the kindness of her heart? do u not think that makes her not only greedy but stupid, considering as i previously stated nobody i know buys WC without knowing their onions.

Many of the reptiles packed for shipping in developing countries will not survive to see their intended destination so it isnt us purchasing Deceased animals, they are thrown away and it is a complete waste of a life. especially when things like bothriecchis schegelli and leptophis spp are shipped out and die needlessly. We are aware of these problems and have discussed them in depth for many years. although it really isnt us you need to argue with. it is the costa rican govt. WE are ALL here to share our opinions and experiences regarding the husbandry / reproduction of captive reptiles, amphibians and a whole myriad of other wonderful companion animals.

If you dont like it dont come here. now i have just wasted 15 minutes of my life typing this. so the least you can do martyn.... is **** off.


----------



## tigger79 (Aug 22, 2006)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> Martyn, I would like to apologise on behalf of everyone on this forum for our ridiculing and belittling of your good self, and ur friend.... and the sheer volumes of herpetological knowledge at your combined fingertips. I shall confer with as many people as i can on the forum and as an apology we shall arrange the civil ceremony for you and your beloved. providing you do the difficult part and admit you love him and want to marry him.
> 
> 
> If you dont like it dont come here. now i have just wasted 15 minutes of my life typing this. so the least you can do martyn.... is **** off.


 
this made me chuckle well sail LRR


----------



## mutt (Jul 5, 2005)

:lol2::lol2:sorry i know this is a really serious subject, well it started off as a serious subject and so should end up as one but i am sitting here in hysterics over this martyn fella, wonder if his boyfriend knows that hes on here?..............bless the innocence of youth, llr well said, i couldnt of put it better
i notice that someone cant remember who said about going to the papers, i have spoken to a reporter in the northants area and they are very interested in this as they did an article on reptile keepers many moons ago............that was many moons before martyn was born, when tadpoles were still in his dads ball sac!!!!


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

on a serious note your 21 year old freind may be very knowledgeable at text book stuff but theres things that no amount of reading will teach you, things that take years of keeping to learn so a 21 year old lad is not going to be the most knowledgeable person when it comes to husbandry.


----------



## mutt (Jul 5, 2005)

hmm they could if they had been keeping reptiles from an early age but i know what you mean.......


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

"Martyn, I would like to apologise on behalf of everyone on this forum for our ridiculing and belittling of your good self, and ur friend.... and the sheer volumes of herpetological knowledge at your combined fingertips. I shall confer with as many people as i can on the forum and as an apology we shall arrange the civil ceremony for you and your beloved. providing you do the difficult part and admit you love him and want to marry him.

and a little word of advice.

reptile keepers do NOT need to know EVERYTHING.... they only need to know about what they currently have in their care and to research thouroughly any planned purchase of livestock.

Also i dont personally know many people on this forum but i can tell you they arent stupid, and wouldn't by WC animals unless they knew what they were doing.

also whereabouts in Costa Rica were you? because the business of exporting livestock from central america is fairly secretive, isnt exactly advertised. you cant just pop down and visit them as you would say.... a zoo. also the girl told you we (the herpetological community) are greedy? are you trying to tell me that she was packing those snakes out of the kindness of her heart? do u not think that makes her not only greedy but stupid, considering as i previously stated nobody i know buys WC without knowing their onions.

Many of the reptiles packed for shipping in developing countries will not survive to see their intended destination so it isnt us purchasing Deceased animals, they are thrown away and it is a complete waste of a life. especially when things like bothriecchis schegelli and leptophis spp are shipped out and die needlessly. We are aware of these problems and have discussed them in depth for many years. although it really isnt us you need to argue with. it is the costa rican govt. WE are ALL here to share our opinions and experiences regarding the husbandry / reproduction of captive reptiles, amphibians and a whole myriad of other wonderful companion animals.

If you dont like it dont come here. now i have just wasted 15 minutes of my life typing this. so the least you can do martyn.... is **** off."

That took you 15 minutes ?
Did you need a dictionary or something ?
Nah it does'nt contain the word BOTHRIECHIS and schlegelii. 
After the herpetologist Herman schlegel.


You must understand why i say the things i ve said after being attack by you all i am bound to react.

And leave my mate out of this he does'nt come on here he does'nt know what ya all say. Is it wrong to this highly of someone good at what they do ?


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

martyn said:


> "Martyn, I would like to apologise on behalf of everyone on this forum for our ridiculing and belittling of your good self, and ur friend.... and the sheer volumes of herpetological knowledge at your combined fingertips. I shall confer with as many people as i can on the forum and as an apology we shall arrange the civil ceremony for you and your beloved. providing you do the difficult part and admit you love him and want to marry him.
> 
> and a little word of advice.
> 
> ...


you got it wrong mate, you started attacking our hobby first and we reacted not the other way around, and you dragged your freind into it as well not us.


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Of course it wasnt in the english dictionary, its latin.

and it only took me 15 mins because i type slow. sorry if that offends you.


----------



## martyn (Jun 5, 2007)

If you read slowly, take your time, sound out the words. you will see that you spelt the name wrong thats why i said what i said . Of course i know its latin after all i can spell it right.


----------



## mutt (Jul 5, 2005)

:lol2::lol2::lol2:this just gets funnier, sorry martyn but are you and your boyfriend for real????


----------



## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

*Get back on topic please and keep posts friendly.

This topic is not about Martyn or his friend.*


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

fazer600sy said:


> *Get back on topic please and keep posts friendly.*
> 
> *This topic is not about Martyn or his friend.*


it seems to be now, I have decided not to bother with it anymore we could go on forever


----------



## mutt (Jul 5, 2005)

fazer600sy said:


> *Get back on topic please and keep posts friendly.*
> 
> *This topic is not about Martyn or his friend.*


sorry dad: victory:


----------



## royalnking (Mar 26, 2007)

[quote/]

That took you 15 minutes ?
Did you need a dictionary or something ?
Nah it does'nt contain the word BOTHRIECHIS and schlegelii. 
After the herpetologist Herman schlegel.


You must understand why i say the things i ve said after being attack by you all i am bound to react.

And leave my mate out of this he does'nt come on here he does'nt know what ya all say. Is it wrong to this highly of someone good at what they do ?[/quote]

and you are never wrong or make mistakes do you! perhaps if you took the time to write slowly and reread you comments you'll get it right.

sorry was already writing before warning no more from me


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

owned !!!!!


----------

