# Tentative plan for a NPT



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Natural planted tank. I'm also going to attempt to make this almost no maintenance.

The inspiration:

UK Aquatic Plant Society Forum • View topic - Tom's Bucket O' Mud - Attack of the triffid (page 17)


UK Aquatic Plant Society Forum • View topic - Tom's Bucket O' Mud - Attack of the triffid (page 17)

The plan:

I have an old 29Gallon tank I plan to use. At 3/4 depth I will have 6 11cmx11cm pond baskets supporting a number of plants with immersed roots but with emersed stems and leaves. A combination of Cyperus species, Pilea Cardieri, Rotala, Ludwigia and a few I'm still deciding on.

There will also be a number of floating plants, mainly hydrocotyle to diffuse the light from two 24w T5 bulbs, suspended around 2 ft from the tank.

For substrate I will be using potting soil and gravel, topped off with leaf litter. Plants will be easy to grow stems, java ferns, anubias and crypts.

My first inhabitants will be micro organisms, daphnia etc. I will leave this for a few months and then add some cherry shrimp. A few months later, assuming they breed I will then add fish (not sure on species yet) to consume the young shrimp.

If it goes tits up obviously I can just feed as usual, but this is the plan. I may need to add a small pump for circulation but basically I want to be able to build a tank than uses no electricity and therefor costs nothing to run. I would ditch the lights in favour of natural light but there's nowhere near a window free.

Opinions?


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## jack14 (Oct 4, 2008)

Sounds good, i will be watching this closely, loads of updates and pics,




Morgan Freeman said:


> Natural planted tank. I'm also going to attempt to make this almost no maintenance.
> 
> The inspiration:
> 
> ...


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## westie1 (Oct 28, 2009)

I love the idea of this, i have thought about the possibility of a self enclosed system before.
Looking forward to the read up :2thumb:


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## Jack the kipper (Aug 26, 2008)

You may find you need stronger lighting to get a nice healthy little ecosystem/food chain on the go.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Jack the kipper said:


> You may find you need stronger lighting to get a nice healthy little ecosystem/food chain on the go.


Possibly, will see how it goes, the idea is that the emersed plants will be at least a foot out of the tank and I can also avoid too much algae. A little algae is needed to feed the shrimp. It's a matter of tweaking as I go.

Daphnia breeding started in a bucket today! Plant pots ordered and I have hydroton for the pots aswell.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

looking forward to hearing about this! Sounds very ambitious.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Opinions?


 
An interesting challenge for sure with great potential. 

Ask me nicely and I might get you all those plants at trade prices.  

Are you aiming for a 100% self sustaining ecosystem?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Mynki said:


> An interesting challenge for sure with great potential.
> 
> Ask me nicely and I might get you all those plants at trade prices.
> 
> Are you aiming for a 100% self sustaining ecosystem?


Can I have those plants at trade prices please? :2thumb: I've actually found a cool pond site with all those plants grown in low humidity and emersed, so I won't have to put them through any transition. That might be a better option, I'm not sure.

No, I don't think that's possibly, unless I can get enough algae growth to feed the shrimp but at the same time not so much it outpaces the plants. Also, I'm not sure a diet of algae alone is the best for the RCS. Perhaps a few algae wafers every few weeks. Very low maintenance is the target. No filter changes, minimal water changes and feeding. Plus hardly any power usage.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Nice project  I love a good NTP, that one in the link is one of my all time favourite tanks. Will be watching with interest.

When I did my NPT I didn't have any emersed plants as the tank had a lid and lights fitted into the lid, I just had to rely on the submerged growth and floating plants to do their thing. Would have loved to have got some emersed growth though, bacopa monnieri is meant to be really pretty emersed. I got some good results water readings wise though, nitrates and phosphates were both lower than tap water which was my aim with it. Quite a few species are grown emersed at the producers so you might find things like echinodorus are already in their emersed form when you buy them.

I'm assuming you've read 'Ecology of the Planted Aquarium' by Diana Walstad? If not it's well worth a read.

Hmm, that empty cube tank is looking awfully tempting now ... lol


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

INJAF said:


> Nice project  I love a good NTP, that one in the link is one of my all time favourite tanks. Will be watching with interest.
> 
> When I did my NPT I didn't have any emersed plants as the tank had a lid and lights fitted into the lid, I just had to rely on the submerged growth and floating plants to do their thing. Would have loved to have got some emersed growth though, bacopa monnieri is meant to be really pretty emersed. I got some good results water readings wise though, nitrates and phosphates were both lower than tap water which was my aim with it. Quite a few species are grown emersed at the producers so you might find things like echinodorus are already in their emersed form when you buy them.
> 
> ...



I actually haven't read it! Just plenty of online stuff by her and about her methods.

Yep lots are grown emersed, but I'm not sure how adapted to room humidity they are. I was going to avoid Echinodorus as I'm pretty sure it's a big drain on nutrients? Although the large leaves would be good surfaces for bacteria.

I'm thinking of using WCMM now. Maybe 8 or so. I want the bioload to be low, but at the same time provide some nutrients to the water column for plant growth, as I wont be dosing. The soil will provide nutrients for the roots, which is why I'm going for mainly heavy root feeders like Cryptocorynes, still need a little in the water column though.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

The Walstad book is seriously worth it, I read loads of online stuff too but I got so much more from the book  

I thought echinodorus were root feeders? I could be wrong! How long do you think the soil will last before the nutrients are exhausted? Or are you thinking the leaf litter etc. breaking down will add to the mulm and thus nutrients in the substrate? I haven't read the thread on UKAPS, only the one on SF, but I'm guessing the ecosystem Tom's got going can fertilise itself as the fish are eating the shrimp and daphnia etc. and thus producing fertiliser. You'll need some form of nutrient 'circle' going, would you need to add food to begin with then gradually ease off as other food chains get going? I've got a colony of springtails living in the top of my goldie tanks, they must have come in on some plants but if you can get some of those going they're a good food source too. I'd offer to send you some to go with your daphnia but I'm not quite sure how you'd go about catching them! If you can think of a way ...

Floating plants with nice long roots are good for bacterial colonisation, Limnobium laevigatum (amazon frogbit) develops good long roots.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

INJAF said:


> The Walstad book is seriously worth it, I read loads of online stuff too but I got so much more from the book
> 
> I thought echinodorus were root feeders? I could be wrong! How long do you think the soil will last before the nutrients are exhausted? Or are you thinking the leaf litter etc. breaking down will add to the mulm and thus nutrients in the substrate? I haven't read the thread on UKAPS, only the one on SF, but I'm guessing the ecosystem Tom's got going can fertilise itself as the fish are eating the shrimp and daphnia etc. and thus producing fertiliser. You'll need some form of nutrient 'circle' going, would you need to add food to begin with then gradually ease off as other food chains get going? I've got a colony of springtails living in the top of my goldie tanks, they must have come in on some plants but if you can get some of those going they're a good food source too. I'd offer to send you some to go with your daphnia but I'm not quite sure how you'd go about catching them! If you can think of a way ...
> 
> Floating plants with nice long roots are good for bacterial colonisation, Limnobium laevigatum (amazon frogbit) develops good long roots.


It is a root feeder, but I've heard it's a bit of a beast and really eats up nutrients. Welcome to be corrected on that!

Not sure on how long the soil will last, have you ever watched dustin's fish tanks on youtube? He has a soil tank approaching 6 years old and it just seems to be dying out.

Well Daphina are feeding on green water/algae in my bucket but yes I do plan to add composting leaf litter. Basically I'll throw in loads of micro organisms and see what happens. This, hopefully, will be the only food I add.

I have loads of springtails in my dart frog tanks, plus fruit flies I sometimes feed to my betta!

Yes I was thinking of frogbit, good long root systems is exactly what I'm after.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

INJAF said:


> The Walstad book is seriously worth it, I read loads of online stuff too but I got so much more from the book
> 
> I thought echinodorus were root feeders? I could be wrong! How long do you think the soil will last before the nutrients are exhausted? Or are you thinking the leaf litter etc. breaking down will add to the mulm and thus nutrients in the substrate? I haven't read the thread on UKAPS, only the one on SF, but I'm guessing the ecosystem Tom's got going can fertilise itself as the fish are eating the shrimp and daphnia etc. and thus producing fertiliser. You'll need some form of nutrient 'circle' going, would you need to add food to begin with then gradually ease off as other food chains get going? I've got a colony of springtails living in the top of my goldie tanks, they must have come in on some plants but if you can get some of those going they're a good food source too. I'd offer to send you some to go with your daphnia but I'm not quite sure how you'd go about catching them! If you can think of a way ...
> 
> Floating plants with nice long roots are good for bacterial colonisation, Limnobium laevigatum (amazon frogbit) develops good long roots.


Echinodorus are root feeders. Most of the ones for sale in the UK have been grown 'emerged' as they're slightly cheaper then the ones grown 'emersed'. 

I'm almost inspired to try something similar. 

Morgan - A 100% natural ecosystem idea has been discussed before. It's easy to do it in a large pond where all kinds of natural food sources will gather. But in a home aquarium you're going to need a lot of water and very low stocking densities. 

I've been thinking about it and I reckon it might be possible. I'd look into glass worms as well as daphnia etc.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I doubt I'll crack it first time tbh, but there will always be food on hand if the tank supply runs out.

Anyone know what sort of feeders WCMM are? I don't want to build up a month's worth of food and have it gone in a day.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

INJAF said:


> When I did my NPT I didn't have any *emersed* plants as the tank had a lid and lights fitted into the lid, I just had to rely on the submerged growth and floating plants to do their thing. Would have loved to have got some *emersed* growth though, bacopa monnieri is meant to be really pretty *emersed*. I got some good results water readings wise though, nitrates and phosphates were both lower than tap water which was my aim with it. Quite a few species are grown emersed at the producers so you might find things like echinodorus are already in their emersed form when you buy them.


I would like to apologise for my erroneous use of 'emersed' in my post here! The bold ones should have read 'emerged'.



Mynki said:


> Echinodorus are root feeders. Most of the ones for sale in the UK have been grown 'emerged' as they're slightly cheaper then the ones grown 'emersed'.


I was under the impression for some reason that growing them emersed was quite common. Just in case I'm causing confusion here my definition of 'emerged' is roots in substrate under water, top out of water, 'emersed' is grown out of water roots n'all, submerged grown under water?



Morgan Freeman said:


> I actually haven't read it! Just plenty of online stuff by her and about her methods.
> 
> Yep lots are grown emersed, but I'm not sure how adapted to room humidity they are. *I was going to avoid Echinodorus as I'm pretty sure it's a big drain on nutrients*? Although the large leaves would be good surfaces for bacteria.
> 
> I'm thinking of using WCMM now. Maybe 8 or so. I want the bioload to be low, but at the same time provide some nutrients to the water column for plant growth, as I wont be dosing. *The soil will provide nutrients for the roots, which is why I'm going for mainly heavy root feeders like Cryptocorynes*, still need a little in the water column though.


I think I misinterpreted you here, I was assuming you were avoiding echinodorus because you thought it took nutrients in through the leaves as you also said you were going for mainly heavy root feeders like crypts. Echinodorus is a heavy root feeder so I couldn't see why you were avoiding it. But I see your point that it might be a bit too much of a drain. 

Apologies for any confusion caused!

As for WCMM, good source of info here:
White Cloud Mountain Minnow (Tanichthys albonubes) - Seriously Fish



Morgan Freeman said:


> Not sure on how long the soil will last, have you ever watched dustin's fish tanks on youtube? He has a soil tank approaching 6 years old and it just seems to be dying out.


I haven't, do you have any links? 

I've spent most of the afternoon trying to remember the name of this one but Hygroryza aristata is another nice floating plant with good long roots.

Some springtails would be good I'm sure, I'm with you on having a whole load of micro-organisms and going from there as the basis of a food chain. But I wish you luck in persuading an unsupervised fruit fly to stay in an open top tank ...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Well it looks like I'm wrong aswell, I thought emersed was roots in water, stems and leaves out. In my case, I mean emerged then.

I'll try and find the clip I mentioned.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Well it looks like I'm wrong aswell, I thought emersed was roots in water, stems and leaves out. In my case, I mean emerged then.


Argh, you've thrown me into doubt now, will go home and find my Walstad book ...



> I'll try and find the clip I mentioned.


Fab, thanks


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Ha! These are the words my larger plant supplier in Singapore uses....

Another supplier uses submersed and emerging....


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Indoor marginals.......!


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok, am home and have been through Walstad book! She refers to emergent growth as roots in substrate under water and foliage growing out (emerging from) the water. Can't find reference to 'emersed' growth in her book at all but I've seen references on the web etc. to aquatic plants being grown 'emersed' (out of water) as a cheaper method of production. 'Emersed' appears to be used fairly interchangeably with 'emerged' as far as aquatic plants are concerned though and a quick trawl through a few online dictionaries implies the two are fairly synonymous. Maybe there's also a UK v US English element to it. So there you go, everyone's right, lol.

As for indoor marginals ...


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry for the lack of updates, my dart frog terrarium has been put on hold due to royal mail crushing my silicone during delivery. I can't move plants out of this tank until the DF tank is finished.....sigh.

I literally have everything ready to start it, pots, plants, soil, gravel....


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Think I've found a potential inhabitant.



http://seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Trichopsis&species=vittata&id=38


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Like the look of them  They make me think of female fighters. I've heard they do make a really odd noise though!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, it's right next to my bed, hopefully they're not at it during the night.

I think they're perfectly suited, my ph is close to 8, heavily planted and no water movement. May need a heater to hit 22 in the winter months though.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

With the caveat that I know nothing about them ... from reading that profile they sound ideal - am I right in thinking these are similar to the species Tom (as per your OP link) keeps?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Similar, yes. I was also considering sparkling gouramis, but their PH tolerance is a little lower than what comes out of my tap.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Hardscape, soil and gravel in.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh wow it's dark, sorry.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Ooh, progress  The substrate looks like you've mixed the soil and gravel together? Or is that just the dark colours making it look like that?

I see from your betta thread that you've changed your mind on the residents again ... any clues?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

INJAF said:


> Ooh, progress  The substrate looks like you've mixed the soil and gravel together? Or is that just the dark colours making it look like that?
> 
> I see from your betta thread that you've changed your mind on the residents again ... any clues?


Theres no soil for the first inch or so, so I'm guessing it's the dark pics of gravel. I hope so anyway.

I'm not having the gouramis, at 7cm they'll be snacking on the adult shrimp, not just the babies! I'm thinking of shrimp only right now tbh, low bioload. If that works well for a while I'll consider some small fish.

Apologies for the slow progress......That's just what I'm like :lol2:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Minimal progress again.

Riparium planters are in and I've added more water :lol2:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Bit of a plant-n00b here. So what are the little hanging plant pots for? Just to grow on before proplery planted out?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

AshMashMash said:


> Bit of a plant-n00b here. So what are the little hanging plant pots for? Just to grow on before proplery planted out?





> A riparium is a new kind of planted aquarium system that recreates the wet habitats found along the edges of lakes, rivers, ponds and streams. This zone hosts marginal plants, which are rooted in the saturated soil at the edge of the water, but hold their leaves up in the air. Many marginal plants have showy flowers and attractive foliage. Since they provide abundant food and cover from predators, marginal aquatic areas in nature are favorite habitats for many aquarium fishes.


Riparium Supply |  About

Not only does it create an extra dimension the the aquarium, plants have much greater access to co2 than they would submerged. In short, they are much easier to grow and they also take on a different from when grown emersed. The roots will help with filtration, I need as much help as possible as I'll be filterless.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Riparium Supply*|* About
> 
> Not only does it create an extra dimension the the aquarium, plants have much greater access to co2 than they would submerged. In short, they are much easier to grow and they also take on a different from when grown emersed. The roots will help with filtration, I need as much help as possible as I'll be filterless.


Oh ok... but... when viewed from the front will they be visible or behind other plants in the end?

I had a some aponogeton which I grew from little bulbs, they then grew lily pad things, and then flowered - I got seeds and then managed to grow them on too :2thumb: Very cool!

Looking forward to some pictures when all planted out


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm hoping they won't be visible!

All shall become clear.....if my plan works.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

The stand is going.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)




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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Awesome!

Anubias?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

AshMashMash said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Anubias?


Nopes.

Peace Lilly and Heartleaf plant look similar. Not sure anubias can cope with the low humidity.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Nopes.
> 
> Peace Lilly and Heartleaf plant look similar. Not sure anubias can cope with the low humidity.


Damnit I thought I was being all clever then! Haha. Looking really good. When it's all planted do we get a proper front tank shot?


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## Stan193 (May 27, 2009)

Looks good,I've just set a tank up with soil (70% peat, 20% john innes No3 soil & 10% laterite) just seeing how it goes. I have some amazon swords that I have planted in plant pots in the tank with organic choice miracle grow and topped with fluorite gravel and they did well it first but look like they've used up the neutrients as they got smaller after a few months. I have added some ferts though recently and got them going again.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

AshMashMash said:


> Damnit I thought I was being all clever then! Haha. Looking really good. When it's all planted do we get a proper front tank shot?


Yep, I have to hold a desk lamp with my left hand and take a picture with my right atm as I haven't hung the luminaire :lol2: I can't reach down far enough to get a front shot.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Lighthood added. Two x 24W T5, may need lowering.

Ignore the cable just checking the temps, 18c.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

So I've gone full circle with my fish choice and I'm back to square one, I just don't know what to add.

This is the shortlist.

Lemon Tetras.

Cardinal Tetras.

Lampeye Killifish.

Otos.

Rummynose Tetras.

Chilli Rasboras.

Harlequin Rasboras.

Threadfin Rainbows.

Various different pencilfish.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

What about Celestial Pearl Danios / Galaxy Rasboras?

Celestial pearl danio - the small fish that made it big! | Features | Practical Fishkeeping

My local MA had them in recently, and they are a bit pricey, but not horribly so. Got 6 of them in my planted tank with my guppies now and their colours are stunning!! A nice group of just those would probably look really good, and heavily planted is what they like


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah they could be a good breeding opportunity, I want to something I can breed but also be able to sell on. Not for major profit, I just don't want guppies that I can't get rid of or something.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ph 7.8

Ammonia 1ppm

Nitrite 1ppm

Nitrate 40ppm

Guessing the soil is releasing ammonia as it breaks down.


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Looking good  I'd say you are right about the ammonia source at the moment, hopefully it will reduce quite quickly though, then it should stabilise a little. Did you leave the soil to 'air' at all before adding the water? This, apparently, sometimes helps reduce the amount of ammonia released initially. I know that's not much help now you've added water though!

CPDs are very popular at the moment, I've never kept them but I can't imagine it would be hard to move them on. Same for chilli rasbora, keep seeing them crop on on various forums, especially with the trend towards smaller tanks now.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool, I'll probably go for either chillis or CPD then. Lampeye Killis would be my first choice but the ph is too high I think.

Some of the plants are throwing a strop, especially the P. Cardieri so I've covered it in cling film and I'll have to reduce the humidity slowly. It's come from well drained soil and 90% humidity so it's quite a big change.

A few cuttings from my other planted tank thrown in the aquatic section and some marginal plants being delivered.

No pics as it looks awful right now.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Removed stones as they took up valuable real estate. Dirt still hasn't settled 2 days later.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Nothing much to report.

Ph down to 7.2

Nitrites still high.

Plants still acclimatising. Most are still whining about the change.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

So unbelievably happy, impressed and surprised with this tank. I'm waiting for something to go wrong!

Overview:










Images should be from left to right:





































Plants etc named in next post.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok riparium section from left to right:

Philodendron scandens (big broad leaves)

Asclepias curassavica (tall plant)

Rotala rotindifolia

Ludwigia repens

Hygrophilia polysperma

Cyperus isolucladus (tall plant, may stems)

Hydrocotyl vulgaris (little round leaves, also floating bare rooted)

Vesicularia dubyana (java moss, tucked in there somewhere)

Fittonia albivenis (red leaves)

Spathiphyllum sp. (peace lilly, not sure which species)

Pilea cardieri (back right, white and green leaves)

Ludwigia natans

Pellonia repens (climbing out of the tank far right

*Aquatic section:*

Sagittaria subulata

Vesicularia dubyana

Bacopa Sp.

Cryptocoryne moehimannii

Cryptocoryne Sp.

Bacopa amplexicaulis

Hygrophilai polysperma


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

So here's a quick adding up.

Tank £40 originally, but that was with cabinet, light filter etc which I ditched ages ago.

Plant pots, silicone and suction cups £10.

Hydroleca I already had but I'd say I used £5 worth.

Soil £5, used about £1 worth!

Gravel £10. I was in PAH and it was there, non branded would be cheaper.

Plants £30 or so I reckon. Some I'd taken from my other tank and some I'd converted to emersed growth myself before adding.

Pump £10 delivered.

Heater £20.

The luminaire was £50 but I've had it ages.

Leaf litter was free.

Coco hide and savu pod were a few quid each.

Assuming I purchased everything new about £180 or so. Most of the cost is the tank, lights and plants, you could do it much cheaper though! I've spent about £70 I reckon. With a good windowsill thats the cost of lighting removed.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ph seems to have settled around 7.3 ish.

Run out of ammonia testy stuff but nitrite is down to zero and nitrate around 5ppm. Looks like time for fish soon.

Temp varies from 24 - 25.5c. Evaporation isn't too bad.

Someone PLEASE tell me what plant to put behind the Fittonia. I can't find Pilea Grandifolia anywhere


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Stop liking and reply!


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## INJAF (Nov 12, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Someone PLEASE tell me what plant to put behind the Fittonia. I can't find Pilea Grandifolia anywhere


_Hemigraphis colorata_? Common name flame ivy or devil's ivy (AFAIK). I had some in a newt tank a few years ago, grows really well as a marginal, like the fittonia, but isn't too good fully submerged.

Just catching up with this, tank looks amazing! Looks much better without the rocks, it's really starting to come together. Love how the plants are starting to flow over the edges  Glad you're pleased with it


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

INJAF said:


> *Hemigraphis colorata?* Common name flame ivy or devil's ivy (AFAIK). I had some in a newt tank a few years ago, grows really well as a marginal, like the fittonia, but isn't too good fully submerged.
> 
> Just catching up with this, tank looks amazing! Looks much better without the rocks, it's really starting to come together. Love how the plants are starting to flow over the edges  Glad you're pleased with it


Yes! Just what I'm looking for.

The growth has been amazing, the Bacopa is close to the surface already. The dwarf sag (that gets enough light) is looking healthier than ever. Hydrocotyle growth is shocking, there's roots popping out the planers all over the place. Even the Pelonia Repens is starting to grow, thought it would rot completely with submerged roots.

And I've finally 100% no going back decided on Lemon Tetras.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Er.....Ph down to 6.8. Must be all the leaf litter and what not.

I'd rather under 7, better for the fish, but I want it to be stable. Will leave for another few weeks I think.

Both Bacopa Sp have now reached the surface and growing emersed leaves. Wooohooo!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm surprised you haven't considered Paradise fish (or did I miss it?)- the conditions should suit them perfectly. Might be too predatory for your shrimp, though.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> I'm surprised you haven't considered Paradise fish (or did I miss it?)- the conditions should suit them perfectly. Might be too predatory for your shrimp, though.


I did, but would be concerned about jumpers. Plus I don't like them that much.

TBH, the self sustaining aspect has been thrown out the window, my daphnia were destroyed by the pump and I've been dosing ferts to help the plant growth. It will still be filterless and with no water changes. I'm even concerned that there's too much flow for shrimp.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)




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## hemps123 (Nov 13, 2009)

more cracking pics mate !!!! nice stuff :2thumb:


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Looking good :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Filter floss!? Where have you been all my life? Added a tiny bit near the pump intake, tank has cleared up within an hour. Wow.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Filter floss!? Where have you been all my life? Added a tiny bit near the pump intake, tank has cleared up within an hour. Wow.


I have some in my sump... I have to replace it every 2-3 days as it clogs so much... (in a good way!)


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

AshMashMash said:


> I have some in my sump... I have to replace it every 2-3 days as it clogs so much... (in a good way!)


I have so much and I only use like a square inch, only cost about £3 delivered so I'm sorted.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I have so much and I only use like a square inch, only cost about £3 delivered so I'm sorted.


I use about 12" by 2" by 1" ish... but don't use fresh every time, squeeze and rinse in tap water most of the time. But yeh, buy a massive bag of it.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Wish I'd used it sooner. Stuck some on the Betta tank too.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I use the Aqua Vital blue stuff, it's smashing floss! Lasts a LOT longer than the white stuff that's like cotton wool as it's got a more solid structure to it, making it easier to rinse over and over without it becoming a solid mat. Does as good a job of filtering out tiny particles. A bag lasts years.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> I use the Aqua Vital blue stuff, it's smashing floss! Lasts a LOT longer than the white stuff that's like cotton wool as it's got a more solid structure to it, making it easier to rinse over and over without it becoming a solid mat. Does as good a job of filtering out tiny particles. A bag lasts years.
> 
> Ade


Ah cool, maybe I'll give that a go when this runs out. This cost next to nothing anyway even if it doesn't last that long.


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