# Little Green Meanie



## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

My latest video of something trying to kill me....

YouTube - Little Green Meanie


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## bluetongued (Apr 25, 2007)

Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!

That is a very serious flaw with the Vision viv's then????

I love your line...' I havent grabed you by your tounge or anything nasty like that'!!!!!!!!....I would hope not!!

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

Great film...Have you ever been bitten??
Do you keep antivenom???


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

That has to be some of the most dangerous and irresponsible mamba handling I have ever seen in my life. If DWA keepers over here did that they would lose their licences and get crucified on forums like this.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

You idiot! i am truely gobsmacked at this video......i am actually lost for words. 

It bad enough letting a Green Mamba escape in the 1st place but fkin hell. who in their right mind would turn their back on an escaped mamba? you seem more interested in the fact you have a crap viv!!

I cant believe how lucky you are, you take nearly getting tagged as a joke thru your poor handling. How much longer do you think your luck will run for? but knowing your sort, it wont be you that gets tagged from an escapee, it will be some innocent person in public.

You give proper venomous keepers a bad name. Keep your **** videos on US forums and stop inflicting them on proper keepers of reptiles!!! 

.....and to film it all like its something to be proud of, what goes on in your mind?


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Al you have some wonderful animals you really do. but i do have a few criticisms and bearing in mind i have worked with venomous animals, but not to the extent that you have (i dont personally keep anything other than rear fanged and the occasional native Viper) so obviously its up to you if you take what i say on board..... but recently you posted a video titled 'hooks not hands' with reference to opening cage doors.... good times.

seems you were extremely close to that door and used your hand... bad times.

Also I think its great that you document your dealings with your animals, its like a video autobiography. but i personally would invest in a tripod or at the very least have someone else film you. especially when dealing with elapids (i'd prefer 2 hands :lol2. if you get a kiss of one of those prettys.... and lose an arm... you'll need to invest in a tripod anyway. 

Not having a go, just constructive criticism.


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## uk animals (Jan 16, 2008)

you deserve .to get bit but then again you might want to. just so you can post it on you tube


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

yikes!

glad you are in the states!

N


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Nerys said:


> glad you are in the states!
> 
> N


Hope he and his animals stay there too


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I think theres some pretty harsh critism in this thread, saying "you deserve to get bitten" and to keep your videos US forums, is not constructive, I for one like to watch your videos and I know alot of people do so please dont stop posting them here, your videos on youtube are a refreshing break from most of the idiots with hots posting videos.

One video that people think is not up to standard of keeping (and im not going to comment because I dont think you could base a complete opinion on what happened from that video) should not overshadow all the good videos you have made.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

SiUK said:


> I think theres some pretty harsh critism in this thread, saying "you deserve to get bitten" and to keep your videos US forums, is not constructive, I for one like to watch your videos and I know alot of people do so please dont stop posting them here, your videos on youtube are a refreshing break from most of the idiots with hots posting videos.
> 
> One video that people think is not up to standard of keeping (and im not going to comment because I dont think you could base a complete opinion on what happened from that video) should not overshadow all the good videos you have made.


HAHAHA Priceless mate, priceless. you know the bit i liked the most? let me requote



> your videos on youtube are a refreshing break from most of the idiots with hots posting videos.


If this video isnt a prime example of the above, i dont know what is. And when it comes to venomous handling, yes you can sum up someone one one video. It wasnt a moment of stupidity, it was 17 effing minutes of it! and thats what he has allowed us to see. I dread to think what he gets up to when the camera is off........The bloke is clearly a loon!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

if that video is really anything to go by, there wont be many more anyway.


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

uk animals said:


> you deserve .to get bit but then again you might want to. just so you can post it on you tube


LMAO!!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

SiUK said:


> One video that people think is not up to standard of keeping (and im not going to comment because I dont think you could base a complete opinion on what happened from that video) should not overshadow all the good videos you have made.



The fact is Si, if a UK keeper posted that video on a forum they would have the council round to see them in no time ( I know this to be true, because I for one would report them ).

It only takes a minute to ruin your reputation... this guy had 17.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

uk animals said:


> you deserve .to get bit but then again you might want to. just so you can post it on you tube


Whether you approve of his handling or husbandry techniques or not,to say he deserves to be bitten by a Mamba is awful.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont want my comments to get taken in the wrong way, I can see what you all mean I just think the way people said it is stupid, I still stand by what I say.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Then perhaps this one should not have been put into the public domain.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeh maybe it shouldnt of been, but to say he deserves to get bitten is too harsh.


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

i thought i would just jump in and say a few things ratboy hysteria_uk one question first is have you two ever kept hots and 2 how many times have you crossed a road when there is no crossing 



luke


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Good video nice little mamba. Bet that got the heart pounding! : victory:


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

totally irrisponsible and frightening that someone actually wants to share this......... I just pray no one atempts to mimic this video 

I am the first to admit know almost nothing about venomous but however I can still see the stupidity of this..........


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> how many times have you crossed a road when there is no crossing


plenty, but only after taking the right precautions..

handling hots is not the issue, its how and where they are handled that is

N


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

im nt going on any ones side i was just stating there are alot of other people that do stupid things every day that are just as dangerous



luke


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

lukendaniel said:


> i thought i would just jump in and say a few things ratboy hysteria_uk one question first is have you two ever kept hots and 2 how many times have you crossed a road when there is no crossing
> 
> 
> 
> luke


hardly a fair comparison is it?


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

how did i know every one would say sumthin about my comments lol


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Well i'd rather be hit by a car than bitten by a mamba :lol2:

That is of course if i HAD to choose one of the two.


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

im nt saying its a gd thing what he is doin 


luke


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

well if you are a registerd dwa keeper you hae more chance of surviving from a mamba bite than you are a car at 40 



luke


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

lukendaniel said:


> well if you are a registerd dwa keeper you hae more chance of surviving from a mamba bite than you are a car at 40
> 
> 
> 
> luke


I'm not sure thats true Luke,I was knocked off my bike by a car travelling over 40 mph and suffered a broken collarbone and a bruised arse,I'd take that over a mamba bite anyday:lol2:


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

i will leave it i ill never win haha :Na_Na_Na_Na: ok i was onli pointing out there are alot more dangerous things that people do 



luke


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## bigsky (Nov 21, 2007)

How ridiculous is that 13 mins of fartarsing about round the room while youre not even watching the mambe for the majority of the time, surely if you were a responsible guy you would have captured him and got him straight back in the viv then done youre little documentry, and as previously stated one hand on hook the other on camera surely not a clever combination.
I must admit i do like the way some of youre films are done , they can be very educational and interesting but i really think youre just gettin a bit cocky and LOOK AT ME now!.


And on the car vs mamba bite subject i got pinged of a car in holland ( cheers Luton Reptile Rescue for telling me the coast was clear from the otherside of the road) doing a lot more than 40mph and survived with bruised ribs and a bit of shock (the car faired worse in the aftermath of it hitting quite a few posts and ending up in a ditch).


So make youre vids by all accounts but keep it safe and promote safe and responsible herp keeping.

Lloyd


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

lukendaniel said:


> well if you are a registerd dwa keeper you hae more chance of surviving from a mamba bite than you are a car at 40
> 
> 
> 
> luke


So would an unregistered keeper. ur licence doesn't give you the right to antivenin.... the need for antivenin does.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

bigsky said:


> How ridiculous is that 13 mins of fartarsing about round the room while youre not even watching the mambe for the majority of the time, surely if you were a responsible guy you would have captured him and got him straight back in the viv then done youre little documentry, and as previously stated one hand on hook the other on camera surely not a clever combination.
> I must admit i do like the way some of youre films are done , they can be very educational and interesting but i really think youre just gettin a bit cocky and LOOK AT ME now!.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah dude, that was SOOOO funny! i have seriously never seen a human being spin so quick!!! you know ur good mates when you can put their lives at risk for physical comedy. :lol2:


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> So would an unregistered keeper. ur licence doesn't give you the right to antivenin.... the need for antivenin does.


nope but if yor registerd the hospitals know what you keep and have mor chance of getting anti venom to you 


luke


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

*Gob Smacked.*

I've seen some silly things in my time, but this takes the biscuit! The guy's an utter fool and lucky to be alive. I don't feel that there is any way in the World that anyone can say that this Keeper is responsible. I have no knowledge whatsoever about DWA or how dangerous Snakes should be handled in captivity, but I have plenty of experience throughout the World out in the wild and the way that this fella handles them, is just not right.:crazy:

There is no comparison whatsoever, I would much rather be hit by the car at forty MPH.

Simon.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Alot of people getting a bit carried away...it wasn't a safe handling demonstration its just some guy filming himself doing his hobby. I dont think he intended for people to copy his techniques! Saying you hope he gets bitten is daft. I know nothing about handling hots really but I am sure this guy knew what he was doing.


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## uk animals (Jan 16, 2008)

this is going nowere if your stupid enough to shove a camera in its face and then walk back to the viv and pratt about closing the door and go back then theres something missing upstairs i for one would have made sure 150 per cent that that cage wos escape proof or it could be that he delibratly placed it there i mean camera( ready) i would have caught it straight up and bagged it and then s..t myself


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

well i agree with you lot its very dangerous to do what he did and sum might say stupid i was just saying ive seen alot worse things than that 



luke


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

look at this guy this is completely stupid, and it wouldnt surprise me if hes been bitten.

YouTube - snake albino cobra bite?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

SiUK said:


> look at this guy this is completely stupid, and it wouldnt surprise me if hes been bitten.
> 
> YouTube - snake albino cobra bite?


Now that is some dodgy handling! I wonder what the stats are for deaths from venomous bites in captivity in the US.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Andy said:


> Now that is some dodgy handling! I wonder what the stats are for deaths from venomous bites in captivity in the US.


I dont know but with any moron (as proved by that video) being allowed to keep them im guessing its quite high.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

no comment no comment and more no comment


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

lukendaniel said:


> nope but if yor registerd the hospitals know what you keep and have mor chance of getting anti venom to you
> 
> 
> luke


licence or no licence. your hospital most likely carries no antivenom. all they would be able to do would be combat the symptoms until it DID arrive from the liverpool school of tropical medicine or similar establishment. so there you go, the licence fee doesn't get you any preferential treatment.


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> licence or no licence. your hospital most likely carries no antivenom. all they would be able to do would be combat the symptoms until it DID arrive from the liverpool school of tropical medicine or similar establishment. so there you go, the licence fee doesn't get you any preferential treatment.


 
i know it dnt get you preferetial treatment if you have a lisence and you dnt understand what i mean and i crnt be botherd to explain lets just leave it 


luke


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

lukendaniel said:


> i know it dnt get you preferetial treatment if you have a lisence and you dnt understand what i mean and i crnt be botherd to explain lets just leave it
> 
> 
> luke


 

and it should say the right antivenom as if you are a non liscenced keeper the hospital dnt know what you keep so if you get to hospital and ur idiot of a mate dnt know what bit him they crnt get the right anti venom were as if you have a liscence the hospital should have a list of what snakes you keep 


luke


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> licence or no licence. your hospital most likely carries no antivenom. all they would be able to do would be combat the symptoms until it DID arrive from the liverpool school of tropical medicine or similar establishment. so there you go, the licence fee doesn't get you any preferential treatment.


 
Good point,people seem to have the impression that the DWA license is issued for the safety of the keeper.It's not,it's for the safety of the general public that may be in danger should the hot keepers husbandry fail and escapes happen.The general opinion is you choose to keep them therefore you choose to take the risk,your neighbours dont however!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

leptophis said:


> no comment no comment and more no comment


ridiculous isnt it.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

why would you not inform the hospital of the species that bit you when you or someone else phones the hospital to warn of your impending arrival?


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

im leaving it i crnt be botherd lol bye bye people :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## bigsky (Nov 21, 2007)

As far as im aware the hospital dont automaticly get informed what you keep when you get dwal, as far as im aware they only know if YOU inform them anyway!!!!

correct me if im wrong but i know this is definatley right for the majority of areas at least.


Lloyd


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

leptophis said:


> no comment no comment and more no comment


oh come on pete, i scrolled this whole thread just to see if you'd made a comment!


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
I have been a venomous keeper/handler for just over 40 years, and I have never seen anything more stupid and dangerous than the contents of this video. :whip:
By the way, no-one deserves to be bitten by a venomous snake,( except people that participate in Rattlesnake roundups):whistling2:.
Brian.


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

with the amount of hots he has and how long he has been doing and he is still alive he must be doing something right.. pull your heads out your ass's guys


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

In the wise words of Yoda:

"Reckless.....YOU are reckless" 

Al in lots of your videos you make some very good safety tips and give good advice, in this it all went out the window. I know that if I had a mamba (or any hot) climbing up the hook then my first instinct wouldn't be to get the camera in closer for more exhibitionism. Turning your back on it was utter stupidity also.

Your first actions should have been to safely put the mamba away, not to crack out the cam and act like it's a toy.


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

how do you know whilst having the camera on the viv he wasnt looking at the table top? the camera isnt his eye you know!


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

SuperTed said:


> how do you know whilst having the camera on the viv he wasnt looking at the table top? the camera isnt his eye you know!


True the camera isn't his eye, but he wouldn't have been able to say and focus on all the points he did and still keep constant focus on the mamba.

Al has to realise that a lot of people watch his videos and a lot of them are aspiring hot keepers with little to no experience. If they see someone acting like this around a mamba they'll just think it's ok and mimic, maybe not surviving to tell the tale like Al did.

Like I said earlier, he has a lot of good vids and good safety tips through them all. This one crosses the line between being safe and informative (like most are) to just being dangerous and exhibitionist.


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

But as ive said before on a few other hot threads anyone that copy's someone else's hot keeping "skills" is an absolut idiot anyway...


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

SuperTed said:


> But as ive said before on a few other hot threads anyone that copy's someone else's hot keeping "skills" is an absolut idiot anyway...


And I agree but sadly there's a lot of idiots out there.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

lukendaniel said:


> one question first is have you two ever kept hots


Nope. But I know people that do (including adult black mambas) and have seen the safety precautions that should be followed when handling hots. Amazingly, this did not include handling them with one hand with a camera on the other or letting it go on a junk strewn table where it could latch on to things.

Just out of interest ... how many mamba's have you seen being handled properly ?


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

I would also point out theres no reason to think he was alone in that room,just because we dont see another person doesn't mean we can assume there wasn't another,experienced keeper standing by.There may well not have been,but who knows until Al replies?


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

SuperTed said:


> with the amount of hots he has and how long he has been doing and he is still alive he must be doing something right.. pull your heads out your ass's guys


Really? for all we know he could be getting bitten week in week out.




SuperTed said:


> But as ive said before on a few other hot threads anyone that copy's someone else's hot keeping "skills" is an absolut idiot anyway...


Are you sure? How else do you learn to handle venomous snake? not by trial and error I assure you.

Mason


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Are you sure? How else do you learn to handle venomous snake? not by trial and error I assure you.
> 
> Mason


Not by trial and error but by taking the necessary precautions having the right gear and also having LOTS of experience with fast non venomous elapids.. the less potent rear fanged e.g mangrove's etc.. i bet more than half the people in the world have self "taught" some by not doing much at all but i bet many of them have done the above.. o and just to add even if someone did copy a different person's practice its still not going to prepare them for going solo and it will often not be comfortable for them..


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## on line (Jan 16, 2008)

*Viper Keeper*

since this is your post are you going to answer any of the comments thats been made (or are you keeping quite about ) it would be intresting to no has to why you did it


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

i wouldnt want to post back to be honest not after the way people have responded pretty immature by some aswell..


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

SuperTed said:


> Not by trial and error but by taking the necessary precautions having the right gear and also having LOTS of experience with fast non venomous elapids.. the less potent rear fanged e.g mangrove's etc.. i bet more than half the people in the world have self "taught" some by not doing much at all but i bet many of them have done the above.. o and just to add even if someone did copy a different person's practice its still not going to prepare them for going solo and it will often not be comfortable for them..


Absolute rubbish. It has to be far better to learn from someone who has experience both in handling and in teaching.

It's like driving a car... You could teach yourself... but you would get there a lot quicker and safer if taught by a qualified instructor.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeh I agree, although theres alot of people that self taught themselves, but I wouldnt feel confident without guidance from someone with experience.


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

i dont think its absolut rubbish at all.. you try and handle hots like the person that showed you it's possible it wont be right and you'll f**k up


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

SuperTed said:


> i dont think its absolut rubbish at all.. you try and handle hots like the person that showed you it's possible it wont be right and you'll f**k up


But if your teacher is there and handling it with you and has taught you the safety aspects first then there will not be a problem will there. A decent teacher is not going to show you a video then give you a pair of snake hooks and say "there ya go... your turn... mind the pointy things"


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

maybe ive come across wrong yes you need to be taught/see the safety side of things but ways of handling and maintenance are going to have to come from the keeper!


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## ChrisBowman (Jan 1, 2008)

how many snakes and reptiles do u have in your home :lol2:


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

i believe in one of his many video's he say's he keeps them in a seperate location to his home because he would never want to put his family in danger if im wrong then al im sure will correct me :no1:


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## ChrisBowman (Jan 1, 2008)

thats a good idea lol does he have loadz of reptiles and lizards


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

I went to bed without brushing my teeth last night. Anyone care to comment on my irresponsibility?


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

he doesn't keep lizards, he is a venomous snake "specialist" havnt got a clue on how many he has though! :lol2:


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## ChrisBowman (Jan 1, 2008)

cool lol im not much of a snake person


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

SuperTed said:


> Not by trial and error but by taking the necessary precautions having the right gear and also having LOTS of experience with fast non venomous elapids.. the less potent rear fanged e.g mangrove's etc.. i bet more than half the people in the world have self "taught" some by not doing much at all but i bet many of them have done the above.. o and just to add even if someone did copy a different person's practice its still not going to prepare them for going solo and it will often not be comfortable for them..


Ah, by copying other people's hot keeping "skills" I thought you were referring to vids on the internet. Personally I feel it's best to spend time with an experienced hot keeper to learn the ropes and some basic safety stuff. I know if I ever went down that route then I'd ask a serious hot keeper friend I have to mentor me for a bit.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

SuperTed said:


> Not by trial and error but by taking the necessary precautions having the right gear and also having LOTS of experience with fast non venomous elapids.. the less potent rear fanged e.g mangrove's etc.. i bet more than half the people in the world have self "taught" some by not doing much at all but i bet many of them have done the above.. o and just to add even if someone did copy a different person's practice its still not going to prepare them for going solo and it will often not be comfortable for them..


Well blow me!!! non venomous elapids? can you point me in the direction of a cb pair? money is no object.

Also i taught myself how to handle Adders and assorted others.... but if it was not for watching others do it in the first place i would have not known where to begin. that is the point most people are making here.

monkey do.... monkey see..... monkey do...... monkey loses arm.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

I wasnt gooing to comment on this thread as i thought the video would speak for it self, but flip magoo when one of the most respected and knowledegable keepers in this country is told to take his head out of his, "tigersnake" by some wazzock with a keyboard then i am going to plough in , First of all Super ted or whatever your stupid name is, Because people on here who have commented think the safety side on that video is appauling doesent mean they should do what you have suggested, I imagine they know what there talking about which is why they feel so strongly, maybe if you actually had some knowledge on this subject you would have a different opinion, this site should premote safe, good , husbandry which is why they feel the way they do. People come on here and read the posts and take in everything and think its gospel, we see it everyday, which is why a video like that is dangerous
In relation to your comments on mentoring, it is the only safe way to work and the very fact you are rubbishing this system says everything about and your knowledge of the subject,


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

:lol2: i was half asleep when i wrote it sigh ive been writing random crap since ive been back.. i know what i ment


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## cjreptiles (Nov 13, 2006)

SuperTed said:


> Not by trial and error but by taking the necessary precautions having the right gear and also having LOTS of experience with fast non venomous elapids..


Non-venomous elapids, eh?


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

look up.. anyway im staying out of this part before i make an even bigger fool of myself :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

that would be extremely difificult, considering how much you look like an idiot already


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

why thank you sir you are my bestest bestest e-friend


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

*Leptophis 1 - Superted nil*
:no1:​


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## SuperTed (Apr 19, 2007)

could see it coming miles away to be fair.


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

I must say that this appears to be some of the most dangerous venomous handling that I have seen and I am most surprised that you want to show it off Viperkeeper. Surely you know that many people look up to you and will try to copy what you do? Luckily for you, you werent bitten, although it appeared to be a close call at one point. Was there anyone else in the room with you, watching the mamba while you had your back to it?

I think venomous keepers should have some responsibility and accountability for the way they do things when they are in the public eye and "showing off" like this. Its like showing someone how to fly a plane - wrongly! I do believe that you are putting across the wrong messages with this video and encouraging irresponsible and dangerous keeping to novices.

I am seriously concerned Viperkeeper that if you continue with your videos in that way then you may end up getting bitten, can you not get someone to help you whilst you film, so that it is at least safe and you are not putting yourself at risk?

I am also concerned for the safety of the snakes, left to crawl around amongst numerous heavy objects is risking getting the snake injured. Is it not safer to have a cleared area for handling your venomous snakes? If they or you knock something over it can become trapped or hurt, it can distract your attention, when you should be totally focused on the snake so you do not get bitten.

Obviously how you handle is your own business, but you need to think of the possible consequences of broadcasting dangerous handling.


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

kinda makes your nuts tingle and your butt hole do the 5 pence ten pence thing !! seriously scary............seriously stupid


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
Angi, wise words indeed, I totally agree with your post.
Pete, well said, there are too many "facts" spoken by people that have never handled a venomous snake in their life. I cannot think there is a venomous keeper in this country that agrees with anything in this video.
I would urge anybody who wishes to add a further comment on this thread to try to be constructive and not destructive.
All the best,
Brian.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

tigersnake said:


> Hi all,
> Angi, wise words indeed, I totally agree with your post.
> Pete, well said, there are too many "facts" spoken by people that have never handled a venomous snake in their life. I cannot think there is a venomous keeper in this country that agrees with anything in this video.
> I would urge anybody who wishes to add a further comment on this thread to try to be constructive and not destructive.
> ...


Thanks Brian, the posts saying "wish you get bitten" are totally daft.

I understand this guys handling is judged by many to be irresponsible and stupid and not having handled venomous snakes myself I cant really pass comment on his skills, but surely he cant be that bad if he has been doing it for years and has many snakes in his collection and is still alive? Is it his handling thats annoying everyone or the posting videos of it on the WWW for everyone to see thats the problem?


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

For me it is the pure irresponsibility of posting dangerous handling, especially when so many people on here look up to him. There are so many on this forum alone who would like to pursue venomous handling, I would hate any of them to think that it is okay to turn your back on a green mamba when its out. I would hate for anyone to get bitten.


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Andy,
I think it is a combination of the both. To handle so badly is one thing, but to then post it on the internet is something else. I also think that the fact he made it sound like "just another day " added to havoc. 
I think Viperkeeper broke all the rules of venomous snake keeping and handling in one video.
In Viperkeepers defence, I think he probably regrets the way things went that day, but I am sure he realises how much worse things may have turned out.
I hope he gets back to posting on the site, after all we are all learning all the time. Stay safe.
All the best,
Brian.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Just because someone does something for years and does not get hurt or killed that does not make it safe.............



I hope the door to the venomous room is more secure than the vivs.


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## calypratus (Jan 31, 2007)

feck!! i really used to think this guy was the dugs baws.
i think ive lost some respect for him now.
i feel so dirty lol.


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## calypratus (Jan 31, 2007)

as for the dude with the cobra. oh me oh my what a twat. maybe the yanks should think about some licensing laws.


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## wba6745 (Jan 11, 2007)

oh dear what can i say my jaw was resting on the computer watching that ive got rattlers i take no chances what so ever to take risks like that with a mamba my god i closed my eyes when it struck past the camera lost for words really i would remove that video mods incase someone thinks they can do the same with there little copperheads or somethink and not get away with it crazy absolutly madness


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

The only comment I feel or want to make is why do you have your venomouse room full of junk do you not have a spare compartment / viv to put it all in thats all . thanks.....Brian


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

lukendaniel said:


> i thought i would just jump in and say a few things ratboy hysteria_uk one question first is have you two ever kept hots and 2 how many times have you crossed a road when there is no crossing
> 
> 
> 
> luke



Actually smartarse i have handled quite a bit and have been mentored by a fantastic venomous snake keeper.....i was mentored to a very high standard which i why videos like this disgust me. I havent read anymore of this thread yet but will do now and respond accordingly!


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

Just read the rest of this thread......WTF? 1) You lot are slagging off the mentoring system....you know the best system you could possibly use for learning the correct handling of venomous? Surely someone showing you the ropes of anything is more productive than just being chucked in at the deep end and told to get one with it? and 2) Slagging off Tigersnake? thats fking priceless!!!! If any of you knew him to talk to him in person about venomous, you would soon realise his venomous knowledge is amazing. For someone to doubt this shows how little they know!


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## DJH1 (Nov 13, 2007)

with majority on handling. is it reasonable to expect a viv that appears to be basically a poly box, not to bend somewhat with 3 more on top? just wondering.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

hysteria_uk said:


> Just read the rest of this thread......WTF? 1) *You lot are slagging off the mentoring system*....you know the best system you could possibly use for learning the correct handling of venomous? Surely someone showing you the ropes of anything is more productive than just being chucked in at the deep end and told to get one with it? and 2) Slagging off Tigersnake? thats fking priceless!!!! If any of you knew him to talk to him in person about venomous, you would soon realise his venomous knowledge is amazing. For someone to doubt this shows how little they know!


I think only one person was "slagging" it off and I think he was trying to be clever and got shown up! I agree the best way to learn would be off someone experienced I think SuperTed meant was if you copy someones techniques from a video on the WWW you are daft.

Hopefully Tigersnake will continue to post on this forum I am sure plenty of people will appreciate it. : victory:


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

I don't know what other people are reading but I see no posts slagging off Tigersnake. Super Ted's comment posted below Tigersnakes first post was a general comment and NOT aimed directly at Tigersnake. Unless that is posts have been deleted?????

I have to say it's nice to read how pleasant people post things on this forum, if only everyone was as polite as Tigersnake's posts have been eh!

It would be nice for Al to comment some on this thread. He's posted these video's and got our feedback (though probably not what he was expecting).

Al if you're reading this then I second the "get a tripod" suggestion!:no1:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Fangio said:


> I don't know what other people are reading but I see no posts slagging off Tigersnake. Super Ted's comment posted below Tigersnakes first post was a general comment and NOT aimed directly at Tigersnake. Unless that is posts have been deleted?????
> 
> I have to say it's nice to read how pleasant people post things on this forum, if only everyone was as polite as Tigersnake's posts have been eh!
> 
> ...


i thought my post was fairly eloquent?


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> i thought my post was fairly eloquent?


Actually yes, your initial post here was well said also. Me on the other hand:lol2:

Still......can't play nice ALL the time lol.


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
Thanks for all the comments, I don`t think the "slagging off" was aimed at me, but thanks anyway.
Theres one thing for sure, this thread has sparked a lot of debate, I suppose this is what forums are for.
All the best,
Brian.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

thats the thing about brian "tigersnake" hes mr diplomatic so when he says something like he has here one should take note and listen


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry guys but I have to agree, for somebody who is known for his experience with Venomous snakes this kind of behaviour is shocking. It takes one bite and that’s another black mark against keeping Venomous snakes and although he lives in the US bad news travels fast. Don’t get me wrong I have lots of learning to do when it comes to Venomous but for the less experienced keepers who haven’t been fortunate enough to get any kind of training who knows how they might react or try and copy these kind of tricks and for the UK that’s BAD NEWS. Don’t mean to upset the apple cart but that’s how I feel that mamba was like a loaded gun with a very loose trigger.


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

*close encounters of the venomous kind*

Things happen to us all that we wish would just go away .....
somedays our brains dont quite get into gear although we know what were doing......or were supposed to as weve been doing it long enough to be respected for our knowledge..
I think sometimes we all get too comfortable with what were doing whether its in life or keeping dangerous snakes. 

AL
What i would like to know is .. 
HOW often do you have close encounters of the venomous kind ?
And is that your worst experience ?

I think someone else has posted would it not be safer for yourself if you could shelve all the gear you have on your table etc.

Would that not give you more room to move and a larger visual area to work with especially whilst filming while alone ?

I know I for one would still like to see your vids as that gives me the oppotunity to see venomous snakes i normally wouldnt get to see or keep, the trouble i had getting western hognoses with my o/h, was unreal .
so getting a western diamondback is deffinately a no go .

I think personally that vid was a reality check to yourself and everyone who keeps venomous snakes as to how easy it really is to get into trouble
and if were all truely honest with ourselves it could of easily been anyone of us.



Hopefully future keeping and film making will be safer for yourself and all concerned .



rick


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

Good question Rick,

Not as often as you would think actually. For every minute of "exciting video" I have 20 minutes of more mundane footage. My little green monster continues to be a danger to my life as you will see in future videos. My close calls are seldom shooting table top segments, but rather forcefeeding or some type of Vet proccedure when the camera is not being used. Actually, the clutter works out to be an advantage to neither me or the snake. It does prevent them from having a completely open line of fire on me, so it's a bit in my favor. When I move to my larger facility this spring this issue will go away. Many segments are filmed with the camera mounted on a "remote extention" which I will show when I introduce a new type of segment on my channel called "Scary Shorts'. My actual distance to the pointy end is much farther than you think in some instances but not all.

As for some close calls I have some that I've have on film but never aired and some I would like to forget how close I came to a very bad situation. Some are a complete surprise and some are caused by an act of "Stupidity" ,which I am not immune. What I present on my channel represents the realities of private venomous keeping, not the sanitized version you see on Animal Planet. My intentions are to show people that it's not as easy as hooking some snake and have it under control. It's the other way around more frequently, whereas the snake is in control and challanges you to figure out how to escape with your life & limb intact.


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## lee-travis (Jan 10, 2008)

although i dont think this i the way to handle green mamba mate nice snake anyway


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

AL 
I'm looking forward to seeing your new footage, the new facility and the remote camera techniques you mention also the scary shots section sounds intresting..........

thx for the reply.



rick


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Viperkeeper said:


> Many segments are filmed with the camera mounted on a "remote extention" which I will show when I introduce a new type of segment on my channel called "Scary Shorts'. My actual distance to the pointy end is much farther than you think in some instances but not all.


That's good to hear Al as I'd like to be able to keep watching your vids for a long time yet.: victory:


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

the point is, people on this site and other sites will take on board what your doing and think this is the way to do it, clearly you havent taken on board any of the points mentioned by numerous venomous keepers on here,


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

leptophis said:


> the point is, people on this site and other sites will take on board what your doing and think this is the way to do it, clearly you havent taken on board any of the points mentioned by numerous venomous keepers on here,


 
I don't have the time to engage in a pissing match with people who think I should be doing something different or conforming to their ideals. This is the way I work, not how anyone else should work. I know lots of venomous keepers and I don't try to copy how I see them handle their specimens, why, because it's their animals and they know them better than I do. I would bet that Steve Irwin didn't fit into your ideals of setting a good example either. That guy did more good for reptiles and reptile keeping than anyone in the past 100 years. When I went to Australia herping...I brought a hook with me, why, because I have not the experience that Steve had working with his native snakes. I didn't say, well if that's how he does it, I can do it that way too. I certainly gave the Salties a wide birth and didn't feel the least bit cocky about mucking with them like Steve did routinely. I wonder why I didn't think this was the way it should be done, after all I did see him on TV doing it that way.

I do have fun with some of my specimens, like the "little green mamba" that may come off as dangerous but those are not even what I consider close calls. I didn't even break a sweat during it's pissy performance. He was wacky but not at the point of being dangerous. She was just responding to the camera being in her face. The only bite that required A/V was in 1974, that's a damn good track record. That one was because a Timber Rattlesnake slipped a pin while I was reaching for the head. The bottom line, if you don't like what I do or how I do it, find another channel to watch.

Cheers!

Al


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

fair Point... all the best ..


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

your right how you handle your snakes if entirely up to you, if you want to handle a black mamba blindfolded chanting use the force luke thats up 2 you, and nobody on this side of the water has got the right to tell you hey thats a bit dangerous, but even if they did I get the feeling you wouldnt except it anyhows, but i would ask you to take country differences into account before you post on a uk website, every keeper in the uk I speak to encourages mentorship, so the attitude nobody tells me what to do, doesent fit in, after all its how we all learn, its how i learned its how others learn, its all a learning experience, in regards to steve irwin i htought he was a great snake man, but then from everything i have read about him, he was very open to being taught and sharing information, and in regards to your channel, it isnt your channel your posting it on a uk website,


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

I may be the RFUK-DWA forum to list the URL but people have the option not to go there. I was invited to frequent this site, otherwise I would not be here as I have lots to do. If the majority wishes me to stop posting I can do that too. Those who subscribe to my site and enjoy my videos will not miss a thing.

You seem to have that "holy-er than thou attitiude" :notworthy: about this whole idea of venomous snake keeping. I also foster mentorship here in the USA and have done so for years with many young keepers in my area. I also post many safety and technique videos to my website and forums for people to learn from, however, as usual detractors always focus on what they see as negatives and piss away. I've wasted too much time already on you and this topic time for me to move onto important issues.

Al


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Viperkeeper said:


> I may be the RFUK-DWA forum to list the URL but people have the option not to go there. I was invited to frequent this site, otherwise I would not be here as I have lots to do. If the majority wishes me to stop posting I can do that too. Those who subscribe to my site and enjoy my videos will not miss a thing.


Not sure about anyone else but I would hope you would stay and use this forum as I find your videos and pictures very interesting and fun to watch. I know the UK hot keepers dont post videos etc on here so its good to see down to earth hobbyists rather than having to make do with the crp on TV.: victory:


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

thats fine, but it isnt just me is it, but no problems i will keep my opinions to myself, holier than thou , not at all, I have had my hands smacked like anyone else by there mentors, thats the point isnt it, being open to that, and learning, which i do everyday


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

*just out of intrest*

As for cr*p i believe this person frequents a uk shop for book signings.
YouTube - Cobra Bite


Is this the way a certain person thinks HOTS should be handled ?

As you have given AL plenty of stick over a his vid or is it because hes paid to mistreat snakes and hes famous for doing so ?

i wont mention the persons name on here or by pm so if the person would like to enlighten us all politely please feel free...
thx


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

cant watch the video so no idea, but as said i will keep it to myself


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

i am guessng you mean austin stevens, its an interesting debate, I can say hes a fantastic down to earth guy , and was thought so by all the shops he visited, as to his programmes, dunno, there clearly aimed at some group of people who enjoy it, and he is very enthusiastic, the same as steve irwin was, personally i like david attonborough, and there is a guy in south africa called donald strydom is is very cool as well, Mark o shea s programmes are probably the least fixed and therefore authentic, but i guess alot of people like the indiana jones type of programme, i would be interested to know what you mean hes paid to mistreat snakes, i am guessing your not a fan then, do you think he is cruel to snakes, would you say that most reptile programmes are like this or just austin stevens


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

Viperkeeper said:


> I may be the RFUK-DWA forum to list the URL but people have the option not to go there. I was invited to frequent this site, otherwise I would not be here as I have lots to do. If the majority wishes me to stop posting I can do that too. Those who subscribe to my site and enjoy my videos will not miss a thing.
> 
> Al


 
Stay m8 ya alright for me... But I must also say it's good to see people be honest and show there handling technique even if some people think good or bad....Brian


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

Andy said:


> so its good to see down to earth hobbyists rather than having to make do with the crp on TV.: victory:


Have you posted in the correct thread?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

yes why? I dont see many other hobbyists posting their videos for scrutiny on here?


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## hysteria_uk (Nov 28, 2007)

it just read like you were saying the guy in the vid is a down to earth venomous keeper thats all so thought you must had posted in the wrong thread. My mistake.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Oh I see you were attempting humour sorry I missed that :crazy:


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

*Lets be honest here about mentors*

Very sorry wrong section...Brian


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Al, do you not realise that some of us are actually concerned for your welfare? To turn your back on a mamba just is not a wise move, no matter how many years you have been doing this, I think most people upset by your video were worried that newcomers may think that this is safe practice. I'm sure that the real reason behind everyones posts is to do with safety - not just of yourself but others who may copy you.

This is not concentrating on the negative Al, it is highlighting an area which is worrying. Many people on here have commented positively upon your videos too. I am sure you would rather never recieve a bite and rather no one ever suffered envenomations. Surely it is better if we can all talk openly with constructive critiscism, so we can all learn from each other. Personally I have learned a lot from other people teaching me and being able to openly say, "hey, may I offer you a little advice", I have so much more to learn in so many areas of my life, yet I know that if I choose not to listen to what others say then I will not grow and learn.

You obviously have a passion for your venomous snakes Al and it would be good to see you continuing to do so for many years to come, without recieving any more bites. But it really isnt just you that people are thinking about, its the people that do not have 30 years experience that buy a mamba for their first snake and then see how you do it, copy you and get bitten. I have not heard the comentary for this video as I have problem with the sound on my computer at present, do you warn viewers of the dangers during this partucular video?


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

I think the point here is being completely missed.

I fail to see how anyone could call the handling shown in the video good. It isn't. Entertaining maybe but good ? or safe ? or a good example ? No.

In the UK we have trips over to Hamm and Houten every year where venomous snakes are openly sold. In countries like Eire it is easy for anyone to keep these animals without a licence. This is as well as the many DWA holders ( including shop owners ) up and down the country.

The point here is that Viper Keeper IS well respected... and his videos ARE seen as reasonably good because of the ones posted before. Inexperienced keepers could therefore emulate this latest one and end up hospitalised or dead.

Just my opinion. Videos like this should not be made public but if the creator of them chooses to do so then they should at least be open enough to accept criticism.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I am not sure I agree with your logic there Ratboy. If someone watched any video showing good or bad handling and then went and bought a mamba from Hamm thinking they were suitabley trained up then they are heading quickly to the hospital! This video is not going to encourage anyone to handle a mamba the same way and lets be honest if they did they they are really stupid and no video is going to change that!: victory:

I know the point the experienced hot keepers here are trying to make but as Viperkeeper says himself these videos are not training videos for anyone they are just him going about his daily hobby. Surely no one in this hobby would watch that and think "right thats me sorted I'm off to buy a mamba". There are pictures in this section of darkdan holding a deathstalker scorpion I think it was and no one mentioned that as giving people bad ideas.: victory:


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

leptophis said:


> i am guessng you mean austin stevens, its an interesting debate, I can say hes a fantastic down to earth guy , and was thought so by all the shops he visited, as to his programmes, dunno, there clearly aimed at some group of people who enjoy it, and he is very enthusiastic, the same as steve irwin was, personally i like david attonborough, and there is a guy in south africa called donald strydom is is very cool as well, Mark o shea s programmes are probably the least fixed and therefore authentic, but i guess alot of people like the indiana jones type of programme, i would be interested to know what you mean hes paid to mistreat snakes, i am guessing your not a fan then, do you think he is cruel to snakes, would you say that most reptile programmes are like this or just austin stevens


 

The fact he drags a venomous snake round by its tail is cruelty ...

and for what a photograph surely theres better ways of taking a picky...
IF I was to do the same i would expect the rspca on my door and a visit to court ...

As for not liking tv progs i do enjoy a good informative and educational 
prog that doesnt result in snakes or other animals being dragged around backwards by its tail...

Theres been some absolute cracking ones on sky hd recently and their venomous selection on anytime was really good ..

rick


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## maybrick (May 20, 2005)

The video i saw showed that even the most experianced keepers can be caught out.

I don't see how that could encourage dangerous handling of any snake.

If anything its the opposite.

Idiots will get bit regardless of anything the web shows, the clever keepers will perhaps be a little more cautious.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Andy said:


> I know the point the experienced hot keepers here are trying to make but as Viperkeeper says himself these videos are not training videos for anyone they are just him going about his daily hobby. Surely no one in this hobby would watch that and think "right thats me sorted I'm off to buy a mamba". There are pictures in this section of darkdan holding a deathstalker scorpion I think it was and no one mentioned that as giving people bad ideas.: victory:



With some people I've met in my life Andy ... Anything is possible.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Rick said:


> The fact he drags a venomous snake round by its tail is cruelty ...
> 
> and for what a photograph surely theres better ways of taking a picky...
> IF I was to do the same i would expect the rspca on my door and a visit to court ...
> ...


would you prefer he grabbed the head end? you've clearly not got any experience with venomous snakes to make such a comment. arguing though.... appears to be your forte.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> would you prefer he grabbed the head end? you've clearly not got any experience with venomous snakes to make such a comment. arguing though.... appears to be your forte.


i ask you rick...have you ever handled a venomous snake. if you have no equipment, there is no other way than to "drag it around by the tail".

though i do agree, there are other and better ways of taking pics than that!


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

oh yea, almost forgot...Al, i have always really enjoyed your video's and still do. you are obviously comfortable with what you do, so go for it mate. the only thing i would suggest, for the benefit of the total dumb f***s out there, is to put a warning at the beginning, that it is dangerous or something. that way even the stupidest of stupid people will at least have been warned!

good luck with it mate, hope to see many more vivs to come!

Alex


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

I can't see the video so i'm really confused as to what's going on in this topic :?


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

basically there was an arguement over how Al (viperkeeper) left a stray green mamba out of its viv, and on occasions turned his back on it. 

btw that is vastly simplified, but thats the gist of it!


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## murinus (Jan 3, 2007)

not seen the vid yet, but if the poster thinks there is nothing wrong with it why has he removed it ?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I dont think he thought there was anything wrong with it but other people were making some nasty comments like hoping he would get bitten etc so that may of put him off?


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

carpy said:


> oh yea, almost forgot...Al, i have always really enjoyed your video's and still do. you are obviously comfortable with what you do, so go for it mate. the only thing i would suggest, for the benefit of the total dumb f***s out there, is to put a warning at the beginning, that it is dangerous or something. that way even the stupidest of stupid people will at least have been warned!
> 
> good luck with it mate, hope to see many more vivs to come!
> 
> Alex


It seems you've watched the vids without noticing that there *IS* a warning at the start of them all.


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> would you prefer he grabbed the head end? you've clearly not got any experience with venomous snakes to make such a comment. arguing though.... appears to be your forte.


 

quite the opposite i wouldnt like to see anyone get bitten.......... cruelty is cruelty at the end of the day theres better ways to get a photo and make a tv prog than drag a cobra round by its tail get bitten,then go back for more after treament or is that your saying thats acceptable ?


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Fangio said:


> It seems you've watched the vids without noticing that there *IS* a warning at the start of them all.


Yea, should have clarified...what i meant was while doing the said thing with the green mamba, maybe mentioned that it is not normal, and should only be done by experienced keepers, not just the warning on the front!

oh, and yea, i see your point, i always skip the bit on the front: victory:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Rick said:


> quite the opposite i wouldnt like to see anyone get bitten.......... cruelty is cruelty at the end of the day theres better ways to get a photo and make a tv prog than drag a cobra round by its tail get bitten,then go back for more after treament or is your saying thats acceptable ?


 
just edited it, but oh well. 



Rick said:


> cruelty is cruelty


that bit...it is common practice for aggressive and venomous snakes to be handled like that in the wild. it is done like this by zoologists, herpetologists, veterinarians, ecologists, environmental researchers...basically everyone that handles snakes in the wild. it is an accepted method, and if done properly should not cause any dicomfort to the snake

Alex


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

murinus said:


> not seen the vid yet, but if the poster thinks there is nothing wrong with it why has he removed it ?


It's still there just has a broken link used in the beginning of the thread.


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

carpy said:


> just edited it, but oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Totaly agree if performed correctly in a professional manner all well n good ...but when its a case of banging the snakes head and body on the ground whilst draging backwards to get a good position for a photo.
i strongly disagree with .. because there no medical reason to capture the snake hence my views and my opinion ...



secondly you dont need experience with venomous snakes to form any opinion the council dont keep dwa snakes as a rule and they form opinions on whos acceptable or not as a keeper .............


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## Rick (Aug 15, 2007)

This has got of the beaten track ....good luck AL for the future looking forward to your next vid...





Rick


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

Rick said:


> i strongly disagree with .. because there no medical reason to capture the snake hence my views and my opinion


yes, i can see where you are coming from. with Austin stevens, he is a total prat. sometimes snakes do need to be captured...in fact i would argue that injured wild animals should be left as they are, unless the injury was caused by humans or their interference.

many animals need to be caught to document the species, sex, health, of a particular population. moreover, if you are working to protect an area, e.g a section of the brazilian amazon, you need to collect specimens, and photograph them in many cases, so as to prove that the species in question are in fact found in that area. btw by capturing specimens i do not mean kill and preserve but catching them, taking down relevant info, photographing them, etc

anyway, off topic...whens the next vid Al?


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## Viperkeeper (Aug 23, 2007)

carpy said:


> yes, i can see where you are coming from. with Austin stevens, he is a total prat. sometimes snakes do need to be captured...in fact i would argue that injured wild animals should be left as they are, unless the injury was caused by humans or their interference.
> 
> many animals need to be caught to document the species, sex, health, of a particular population. moreover, if you are working to protect an area, e.g a section of the brazilian amazon, you need to collect specimens, and photograph them in many cases, so as to prove that the species in question are in fact found in that area. btw by capturing specimens i do not mean kill and preserve but catching them, taking down relevant info, photographing them, etc
> 
> anyway, off topic...whens the next vid Al?


I have a few more people to answer on this thread but too busy tonigh. My next video will not go up till the contest with David Williams is over. He now is in second place by a few votes...come on team...find others to vote!!

Al


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## tiffa (Jan 17, 2007)

cant see it not there any more


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## loxocemus (Sep 2, 2006)

*re al*



Rick said:


> This has got of the beaten track ....good luck AL for the future looking forward to your next vid...
> 
> 
> Amazing how many people start with iv no expereince with DWA but blah blah, they should just stop after "iv no experience with dwa" cause thier talking from thier A**holes therafter. from the videos iv seen of al's and i think iv seen all (154 or something like that!) he really cares for his animals, thinks more of them than some people (his words) takes great care of them, has bred many species rarely bred anywhere (he's kept a feas kicking and thats a job and a half).
> ...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

is he still in 2nd place?
I voted.

Have not managed to see this vid yet but did spend the last 40 minutes reading the thread.

I like Viper-keepers vids, im sure this one is going to be an exception mind.. however as usual soem people here have litterally no manners whatsoever, which is a shame.


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Dean, I think there is a new thread started up for this within the DWA section - cant remember what its called but i think it was posted by Viperkeeper aswell, if that helps.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Hope you stay Al, I enjoy watching them immensely I haven't see the video in question, but don't let some of the people here put you off of posting. I saw some pictures posted on the internet a couple of years ago of some bloke in the UK, handling (with hooks) mambas (if I recall correctly) outside in his back garden, hardly the wisest move in my book and I think one that may have contravened the DWA regulations.


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