# The APA family have names now!



## TheMetaphysicalNinja

Well, at least, a possibility. 

We all know their esteemed leader, Elaine Toland. 

However some cheeky photos were taken of people at a meet that seemed.. out of place shall we say... Asking some mighty silly questions and all... 

After much research, number 3 may have a name  
He's known to be a activist... see links I'll post in a sec

Heres the original photos for reference









So, name: Alan Buttle
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...26tbs%3Disch:1

First link for a start. 
See section "ASBO fool"

Go go go!


----------



## Zak

OOO wonder if ill be lucky enough to see these people tomorrow. Haha going to be like Pokemon, Elaines charizard because shes so hard to bloody catch but ill get those 3 tomorrow.


----------



## Pete Q

Number ones not thin enough to be animal rights.


----------



## Alfonzo

Where was this?


----------



## Spikebrit

I may be too late but pictures of these guys should be posted at all the meetings, including todays. 

jay


----------



## Austin Allegro

Number 2 looks a bit fascist and a look of Eva Braun.


----------



## excession

Number one is Harold Bishop.

I swear I saw number 2 at several meets in the past year.


----------



## exoticsadmirer

I reckon in this article there's a pic of number 2 they look similar...
BBC - Inside Out - East - Animal cruelty


----------



## excession

YouTube - World Day for Animals in Laboratories 2010 - Debbie Vincent

could be her?


----------



## JamesJ

Zak said:


> OOO wonder if ill be lucky enough to see these people tomorrow. Haha going to be like Pokemon, Elaines charizard because shes so hard to bloody catch but ill get those 3 tomorrow.


Id like to see this, you running around with pokéballs like a ninja :Na_Na_Na_Na: They might not dissapear into the ball when you throw them but it would be comical to hit them on the heads with pokéballs :no1:


----------



## Natrix

James_and_Hana said:


> Id like to see this, you running around with pokéballs like a ninja :Na_Na_Na_Na: They might not dissapear into the ball when you throw them but it would be comical to hit them on the heads with pokéballs :no1:


I think you will find ball bearings have a bit more weight to them LOL

Gordon
FBH VC


----------



## Dragon Wolf

Natrix said:


> I think you will find ball bearings have a bit more weight to them LOL
> 
> Gordon
> FBH VC


Ahh yeah, but at the end of the day there ain't no substitute for a length of 4x2 :devil: :2thumb:


----------



## kain

Watching that video I wonder how many of them protestors would offer themselves to take the rats place in reaserch for life threatening diseases.


----------



## Row'n'Bud

This goes to prove one of two things......

1. the apa are involved with or willing to engage the help of animal rights extremists

2. We have a lot more than the apa to deal with out there now


----------



## Row'n'Bud

A quick google search on this buttle character is Very eye opening...terms like terrorist seem to pop up quite a few times, banned from public demonstrations, asbo ...........all in all a real t**t it would seem


----------



## Graham

Display prominent photos of these and other suspicious people on the stands at herp meets, with a notice to report them to the organisers if you spot them, some nice big ones at the entrance too so people in the queue can look out for them.


----------



## Spikebrit

Graham said:


> Display prominent photos of these and other suspicious people on the stands at herp meets, with a notice to report them to the organisers if you spot them, some nice big ones at the entrance too so people in the queue can look out for them.


Yep, like I said earlier, we need to out as many of these people as possiable

Jay


----------



## Austin Allegro

exoticsadmirer said:


> I reckon in this article there's a pic of number 2 they look similar...
> BBC - Inside Out - East - Animal cruelty


it says she is frustrated and angry!:lol2:
Most probably mainly frustrated.
Or even frustrated and ugly!


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA

There Jumpers give it away.


----------



## blood and guts

Pete Q said:


> Number ones not thin enough to be animal rights.


Was you ever on cview? old potto was a little on the chubby side and he was a barking tree hugging loonie! we all know these people are hipocrites!


----------



## Natrix

blood and guts said:


> Was you ever on cview? old potto was a little on the chubby side and he was a barking tree hugging loonie! we all know these people are hipocrites!


Hiya mate

He still is a barking tree hugging loonie and despite the fact that the RSPCA have spent many thousands of pound trying to get rid of him, he still appears to be a council member.

Didn't his high flying chef career turn out to be a job peeling spuds in a floating restaurant on the Thames.:lol2:
Gordon


----------



## blood and guts

Natrix said:


> Hiya mate
> 
> He still is a barking tree hugging loonie and despite the fact that the RSPCA have spent many thousands of pound trying to get rid of him, he still appears to be a council member.
> 
> Didn't his high flying chef career turn out to be a job peeling spuds in a floating restaurant on the Thames.:lol2:
> Gordon


And he had a lot of meat in his diet
Dam i miss some of the old cview stuff:whistling2:


----------



## Natrix

Just had a look at Alan Buttles facebook page (he does like his pictures) I think we have found Elaines new friend. 

What do others think?

Free Alan Buttle | Facebook


----------



## Natrix

blood and guts said:


> And he had a lot of meat in his diet
> Dam i miss some of the old cview stuff:whistling2:


Yep, a veggie that *lOVED:flrt:* his meat :no1: 

Happy day's :lol2:

Gordon


----------



## Dragon Wolf

Natrix said:


> Just had a look at Alan Buttles facebook page (he does like his pictures) I think we have found Elaines new friend.
> 
> What do others think?
> 
> Free Alan Buttle | Facebook


Oh he looks a proper hard case, about as scarey as being mugged by a sheep


----------



## Row'n'Bud

Seen a few of his "hardcore" mates had branded him as a supergrass or at least implicated to this....maybe he's went running to the apa for new friends if his old associates no longer trust him.
People like him may try to push the apa to a new level so will be well worth watching !!


----------



## naz_pixie

heya, i saw these pictures last year when they were first put up and i am still convinced that the red head girl at teh bottom could be a girll called jen who i used to go to uni with.. she was vegan, and mildly envolved with animal rights.. i did some digging at the time last year but couldnt find out what shes doing now, and apart from asking her if shes now heaverly envolved in animal rights groups i didnt know what else to do?!


ETA: just looked through her facebook for pictures of her around that time last year and it apears she put on rather a bit of wieght and didnt look like taht at the time.. so must be her skinier double..


----------



## Natrix

naz_pixie said:


> heya, i saw these pictures last year when they were first put up and i am still convinced that the red head girl at teh bottom could be a girll called jen who i used to go to uni with.. she was vegan, and mildly envolved with animal rights.. i did some digging at the time last year but couldnt find out what shes doing now, and apart from asking her if shes now heaverly envolved in animal rights groups i didnt know what else to do?!
> 
> 
> ETA: just looked through her facebook for pictures of her around that time last year and it apears she put on rather a bit of wieght and didnt look like taht at the time.. so must be her skinier double..


Thanks Naz-pixie
I'v just sent you a PM

Gordon
FBH VC


----------



## Chris Newman

TheMetaphysicalNinja said:


> Well, at least, a possibility.
> 
> We all know their esteemed leader, Elaine Toland.
> 
> However some cheeky photos were taken of people at a meet that seemed.. out of place shall we say... Asking some mighty silly questions and all...
> 
> After much research, number 3 may have a name
> He's known to be a activist... see links I'll post in a sec
> 
> Heres the original photos for reference
> image
> 
> Go go go!


Oh dear, the cat is now out of the bag…. No.3 is Alan James Buttle, in his witness statement dated 8th March 2010 he describes himself as “Volunteer Animal Protection Agency Campaigner” Goggle the name, absolute pillar of the community….. 

No. 4 is Claire Louise Palmer, in her witness statement of the 22nd February she declares herself to be, and I quote: “Consultant Biologist, Animal Protection Agency” – a consultant! Claims to be a ‘zoologist’ with an MSc in Applied Animal Behaviour and welfare, with over 13 years of experience – very impressive… her 7 page witness statement was not quite so impressive, if you have any knowledge of reptiles – something Claire clearly lacks..


----------



## Chris Newman

Here are the key players in the APA family.

*Elaine Toland *

*







*

Elaine right and new Green Party MP Caroline Lucas left . Caroline a former MEP and passionate environmentalist/animal rightist is now MP for Brighton, home town of the APA. Elaine is a long standing animal rights activist and former senior campaigns officer for Animal Aid. 


*







*

Clifford is a former reptile dealer/smuggler, now alleged scientist! Some confusion over what actually qualifications he holds, was touted as having a doctorate from Copenhagen University, but they never heard of him! 

*Tom Langton *

*







*
http://herpecology.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/people/allotments-press-012_cr.jpg 

Tom appears to be one of the latest recruits to the APA, one of the founders of Froglife. Tom is well know in the field of conservation of native reptiles and amphibians, a surprise to some that a once respect conservationist would become involved with a company like the APA Ltd.


----------



## Graham

Interesting that Caroline Lucas is pals with the APA, now she's a proper MP she may be more careful about the company she keeps, it's so easy to discredit politicians these days.


----------



## bbav

Bit of a concern that toland has an MP as a friend :devil:
I didn't know that froglife was linked to the APA and if you follow the link to there website from froglifes facebook page Froglife Info | Facebook it lead to the ARC website a charity i was about to start fund raising for due to there sliding scales campaign.


----------



## Natrix

bbav said:


> Bit of a concern that toland has an MP as a friend :devil:
> I didn't know that froglife was linked to the APA and if you follow the link to there website from froglifes facebook page Froglife Info | Facebook it lead to the ARC website a charity i was about to start fund raising for due to there sliding scales campaign.


In the last Government she had several pet MP's. Sadly they seem to have had some expenses problems and may not be very MP'ish for a while.

Gordon


----------



## lionfish

One of her pet M.P's is still an M.P Kerry Mccarthy ( spelling ?) . She is the Labour M.P for one of the Bristol constituencies and a self confessed vegan & animal rights supporter . Miss M ran a poll on her personal website last year asking if reptiles should be banned ( this was in the wake of the whole Wilbur the cat saga ) .


----------



## sambridge15

the end of the day reptile trade is a huge business with what 1000 shops thousands of breeders suppliers viv builders couriers id guess about 10000 peoples livelihoods depend on the reptile trade why would any government pass a law resulting in 10000 people losing there jobs along with millions and millions in tax revenue just to make a few smelly untaxable hippies happy?

ill keep an eye out for them at pras and say hello


----------



## Natrix

sambridge15 said:


> the end of the day reptile trade is a huge business with what 1000 shops thousands of breeders suppliers viv builders couriers id guess about 10000 peoples livelihoods depend on the reptile trade why would any government pass a law resulting in 10000 people losing there jobs along with millions and millions in tax revenue just to make a few smelly untaxable hippies happy?
> 
> ill keep an eye out for them at pras and say hello


An excellent argument and exactly the same one used by the Fox hunters and the smokers, so we shouldn't have any problems then:gasp:

Gordon
FBH VC


----------



## sambridge15

Natrix said:


> An excellent argument and exactly the same one used by the Fox hunters and the smokers, so we shouldn't have any problems then:gasp:
> 
> Gordon
> FBH VC


true but i stand by that there are no grounds to prevent reptile trading, smoking may raise alot of tax income but it has economic negative externalities pinned to it yes it raises money it also costs them a fortune in nhs costs when they all get cancer along with the work hours lost due to smoking breaks.so its in there interest to encourage people not to smoke or at least be seen to. 

fox hunting was lets face it barbaric and the majority of the public wanted it banned, so in banning it the government gained popularity with alot of people.Fox hunting still continues as an industry following scented trails, so all thats changed is killings of foxes rather than the complete destruction of the industry as would be required if exotics were banned there is also the huge administrative and enforcement costs in what happens to the millions already in the country?

the apa are a tiny organisation so there is no reason to ban it because they will not gain any form of support... in fact they would upset alot of herp keepers who currently outnumber the antis making this a very bad move!

there is also no health risk associated with the reptile trade like there is with smoking it also does not kill people around you .so as you can see from a governments standpoint reptile trade=good unlike those two areas the government has no reason to change anything and unless public opinion turns against us or reptiles start venting out deadly gasses!

if the antis up there game then yea we may have to worry but this is unlikely i think the worse thing that may get passed is a full or partial ban on import of wild animals and frankly I support that


----------



## Natrix

Firstly we are a long way from the beginning of this fight and it is true that we are not under the threat of a ban in the way that we was five years ago, but the threat hasn’t gone away and we have to keep battling on if this hobby is to continue to have a future. I’m afraid your ideas are very naive and if we all thought that way our hobby would of vanished already.
Perhaps you will allow me to poke something sharp at your bubbles below.



sambridge15 said:


> true but i stand by that there are no grounds to prevent reptile trading, smoking may raise alot of tax income but it has economic negative externalities pinned to it yes it raises money it also costs them a fortune in nhs costs when they all get cancer along with the work hours lost due to smoking breaks.so its in there interest to encourage people not to smoke or at least be seen to.


Lets remember this isn’t about reality, it’s about what the Anti’s can get the public to believe. Have you taken a look at the recent Lush campaign. Leaflets being handed out stating that reptiles don’t make good pets, that they die within their first year of captivity, that they are all wild caught, that the hobby is putting lots of reptiles at risk of extinction, that they are riddled with Salmonella, mention of the two babies that allegedly died from salmonella, General scare mongering about the dangers of reptiles to the public if they escape. 



sambridge15 said:


> fox hunting was lets face it barbaric and the majority of the public wanted it banned, so in banning it the government gained popularity with alot of people.Fox hunting still continues as an industry following scented trails, so all thats changed is killings of foxes rather than the complete destruction of the industry as would be required if exotics were banned there is also the huge administrative and enforcement costs in what happens to the millions already in the country?


Firstly you are being mis-led by the Anti propaganda machine. A lot less than half the country wanted a ban and all attempts by the Government to prove how barbaric the sport was came to nothing. That’s why they had to use the parliament act to force the ban through in the end. 
The Antis can and will put together a case just as bad for reptile keeping as they have for fox hunting. It’s easy because just like fox hunting 80% of the British public haven’t got a clue about the truth and will be sucked in by the Anti propaganda machine. 
At the start of the Animal Welfare Bill the Labour Government were happily looking at ways of phasing out and then banning the keeping of exotic pets based on information from groups such as the RSPCA, IFAW, Zoo Check and the Born free foundation. It was only the surprise fight back from hobbyists and the trade running parallel with the bashing they were already getting from the fox hunters, that stopped them in their tracks and got them talking to groups like the FBH. 



sambridge15 said:


> the apa are a tiny organisation so there is no reason to ban it because they will not gain any form of support... in fact they would upset alot of herp keepers who currently outnumber the antis making this a very bad move!


The APA are indeed a tiny organisation but they are backed by much larger organisations. The International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) is a multi million pound business and is totally against the keeping of pet animals. They back and support small groups like the APA, they also donate huge sums of money to Governments around the world including 1.3 Million to the last Labour Government. They are well known for buying what they want from cash strapped Governments. 




sambridge15 said:


> there is also no health risk associated with the reptile trade like there is with smoking it also does not kill people around you .so as you can see from a governments standpoint reptile trade=good unlike those two areas the government has no reason to change anything and unless public opinion turns against us or reptiles start venting out deadly gasses!


The Anti’s have made a huge issue of Reptile Related Salmonella (RRS) There has already been Government health warnings issued and recommendations that the elderly, the very young and people with immune deficiencies stay away from reptiles. I know this is all rubbish but the public don’t and the Government want to keep the public happy.




sambridge15 said:


> if the antis up there game then yea we may have to worry but this is unlikely i think the worse thing that may get passed is a full or partial ban on import of wild animals and frankly I support that


A ban on the import of reptiles would be bad for the hobby (as bird keepers are now finding) but leaving that aside, What you would get is a full ban on all imports and a full ban on breeding and selling reptiles.
That’s it, that is all it would take to knock out this hobby. You can still keep what you have, no need to kill anything just no more breeding or selling. Once the old stock has passed on there is no new stock. In ten years there would be so few animals left that all supplies of commercial food and equipment will have ceased, you will struggle to find a reptile vet and no new keepers can get started.
Perhaps then we can all keep plastic reptiles in our vivs to admire, the same way that fox hunters just follow false trails now.

Gordon Glasson
FBH VC


----------



## sambridge15

to be honest your thinking into this way to much reptile keeping is about as unlikly to get banned as red meat look at the size of groups like peta and they have changed diddley squat and there vids are more graphic than anything owned by the apa. has any governemnt changed anything cause of them?the issues put forward by peta are far more compelling than those against the reptile trade yet nothing changes. 

the governemnt would also have to look into the apa claims before passing a law with herpetologists and herp experts who will undoubtedly take our side disproving there claims.

as mentioned before the government would not close down a multimillion £industry as would be required especially in a recession google reptile trade uk value you dont understand the size of this industry its huge!

"it employs over 47,000 people. In terms of pet shops, there are approximately 5,000 shops, of which approximately 3,000 sell livestock"

"The number of shops stocking livestock is increasing year or year, and within the last 12 months the number of shops stocking increased by some 10%"

"In 2004 the FBH, in connection with REPTA, endeavoured to evaluate the extent of the number of reptiles kept. We concluded at the time in *access *of one million households kept in *excess* of 5 million pet reptiles, although I should also say that we included amphibians in the term reptiles."

so as you can see it seems extreamly unlikely that the public support will sway away from us when 6 years ago there was a million homes assuming 2.5 people per home that 2.5 million people in support this is before the major boom in reptiles we are having now this figure will be alot higher now.even in the wake of wilbur the cat public support and the experts remained with us. 

like i said before fox hunting despite not hunting foxes still employs the same amount of people people still engage on the hobby not alot changed but killing foxes.

what your talking about is literately taking away what is now probably in excess of 50000 peoples jobs upsetting a millions of voters closing down a huge infrastructure that will cost loads to police and monitor not to mention current economic climate plus the loss of millions or probably even billions of £in tax.

fur trade also far more barbaric far more antis huge public support against it,alternatives exist yet is it banned... nope .... so as i hope you can see worse thing we have to worry about is a few shows getting the axe from mislead local councils

you also say the apa are backed by large organisations 

those organisations backing the apa< exoterra, zoomed, pampured pets, pets at home,all the small scale reptile shops

we have far more backing from
a)the public
b)fiscally
c)business
d)experts


----------



## Row'n'Bud

Mate why state facts to natrix, especially from the FBH.....have you even read his threads to the very end ??.....

"Gordon Glasson
FBH VC"

something tells me he knows these facts already and is in a much stronger position to comment on this than any of us home keepers or even traders.


----------



## Natrix

sambridge15 said:


> to be honest your thinking into this way to much reptile keeping is about as unlikly to get banned as red meat look at the size of groups like peta and they have changed diddley squat and there vids are more graphic than anything owned by the apa. has any governemnt changed anything cause of them?the issues put forward by peta are far more compelling than those against the reptile trade yet nothing changes.
> 
> the governemnt would also have to look into the apa claims before passing a law with herpetologists and herp experts who will undoubtedly take our side disproving there claims.
> 
> as mentioned before the government would not close down a multimillion £industry as would be required especially in a recession google reptile trade uk value you dont understand the size of this industry its huge!
> 
> "it employs over 47,000 people. In terms of pet shops, there are approximately 5,000 shops, of which approximately 3,000 sell livestock"
> 
> "The number of shops stocking livestock is increasing year or year, and within the last 12 months the number of shops stocking increased by some 10%"
> 
> "In 2004 the FBH, in connection with REPTA, endeavoured to evaluate the extent of the number of reptiles kept. We concluded at the time in *access *of one million households kept in *excess* of 5 million pet reptiles, although I should also say that we included amphibians in the term reptiles."
> 
> so as you can see it seems extreamly unlikely that the public support will sway away from us when 6 years ago there was a million homes assuming 2.5 people per home that 2.5 million people in support this is before the major boom in reptiles we are having now this figure will be alot higher now.even in the wake of wilbur the cat public support and the experts remained with us.
> 
> like i said before fox hunting despite not hunting foxes still employs the same amount of people people still engage on the hobby not alot changed but killing foxes.
> 
> what your talking about is literately taking away what is now probably in excess of 50000 peoples jobs upsetting a millions of voters closing down a huge infrastructure that will cost loads to police and monitor not to mention current economic climate plus the loss of millions or probably even billions of £in tax.
> 
> fur trade also far more barbaric far more antis huge public support against it,alternatives exist yet is it banned... nope .... so as i hope you can see worse thing we have to worry about is a few shows getting the axe from mislead local councils
> 
> you also say the apa are backed by large organisations
> 
> those organisations backing the apa< exoterra, zoomed, pampured pets, pets at home,all the small scale reptile shops
> 
> we have far more backing from
> a)the public
> b)fiscally
> c)business
> d)experts


Thank you for quoting the FBH/REPTA figures for me and you are right about them showing the strength of the hobby but now ask yourself, why did the FBH spend several weeks running around gathering all that information?????? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that the Anti's had pushed the Government into considering a ban which was only weeks away as that information was put together.
I can also tell you that we do not have public support. Fiscally we scrape through and experts tend not to speak out for fear of repriasals from the Anti's.

I Also think you will find that one of the first things Labour did was to ban the production of animals for fur. They would of banned the fur trade totally but international CiTIES caused them a few problems.

Before we go any further on this, have a read of 
Animal Rights & the Future of the Pet Industry 2006

Then see if you still think the anti's aren't a problem.

Gordon Glasson 
Vice Chairman of the *Federation of British Herpetologists.:gasp:*


----------



## Natrix

Row'n'Bud said:


> Mate why state facts to natrix, especially from the FBH.....have you even read his threads to the very end ??.....
> 
> "Gordon Glasson
> FBH VC"
> 
> something tells me he knows these facts already and is in a much stronger position to comment on this than any of us home keepers or even traders.


:blush:
Thanks for the support:2thumb:

Gordon


----------



## sambridge15

Natrix said:


> :blush:
> Thanks for the support:2thumb:
> 
> Gordon


Lol were both on te same side here and I think what you guys do is great for the hobby we need more unification to stand against the antis but I stand by that currently due to economic circumstances are hobby is unlikely to come into any major danger at least until we are ecenomicly stable I'm sure we can both agree that this gives us a perfect opportunity to prepare for when the government may be in a position to effect the hobby

I must say I do enjoy these kinds of debates  nice and civil and I even learnt something . Had no idea fur farms had been banned guess that's why it always talks about imports haha

I have only been in the hobby a year and a bit but my argument comes strictly from an economic point of view(study it) asi feel the government will have little personal feelings towards either side and will look at it in such a way....well that's my theory haha


----------



## sambridge15

Haha I also only just realised I was quoting you your own figures haha I do feel the fool  still I stand by my little theory. I'll be sure to drop guys a donation


----------



## Natrix

The current economic circumstances are indeed to our favour and have been for some time. I also doubt (but may be wrong) that the current Con-Dem coalition will cause us any real problems as their views on this are opposit and would cause to many arguments between the Nick loves Cameron pact. This how ever also makes it the best time to fight back.

No problems with quoting FBH figures at me. At least I know they are accurate unlike some of the rubbish put out by the Anti's.

Gordon
FBH VC:whistling2:


----------



## pam b

Natrix said:


> Hiya mate
> 
> He still is a barking tree hugging loonie and despite the fact that the RSPCA have spent many thousands of pound trying to get rid of him, he still appears to be a council member.
> 
> Didn't his high flying chef career turn out to be a job peeling spuds in a floating restaurant on the Thames.:lol2:
> Gordon





blood and guts said:


> And he had a lot of meat in his diet
> Dam i miss some of the old cview stuff:whistling2:





Natrix said:


> Yep, a veggie that *lOVED:flrt:* his meat :no1:
> 
> Happy day's :lol2:
> 
> Gordon


Boys, boys, boys, stop it, you'll have me coughin up a lung laughin.
Ah the good ole days eh!:rotfl:


----------



## sambridge15

Natrix said:


> The current economic circumstances are indeed to our favour and have been for some time. I also doubt (but may be wrong) that the current Con-Dem coalition will cause us any real problems as their views on this are opposit and would cause to many arguments between the Nick loves Cameron pact. This how ever also makes it the best time to fight back.
> 
> No problems with quoting FBH figures at me. At least I know they are accurate unlike some of the rubbish put out by the Anti's.
> 
> Gordon
> FBH VC:whistling2:


yea lets hope for a long and prosperous torry/lib rule :2thumb: how do i go about being more active in support of our hobby anyway im sure your the person to ask


----------



## blood and guts

pam b said:


> Boys, boys, boys, stop it, you'll have me coughin up a lung laughin.
> Ah the good ole days eh!:rotfl:


But we where only stating facts pam, dave did LOVE his meat! And lets not start on turtles hate of pets but love for "his" pussy and fishy things....

Yep really miss the ole days..:lol2:


----------



## Pete Q

We all need to keep fighting, every chance we get, for every attack on keeping reptiles have your say.
Never stop, never give up.
Even if you think we are safe, or have one a fight, the fight will always go on.
You just can't beat the person who never gives up.
:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## Natrix

pam b said:


> Boys, boys, boys, stop it, you'll have me coughin up a lung laughin.
> Ah the good ole days eh!:rotfl:


What a shame all those old posts were lost when one of them hacked the forums. 

First C-View and now Big Brother. Where can one go to see lunatics in their natural habitat these days:lol2:

Gordon


----------



## Natrix

blood and guts said:


> But we where only stating facts pam, dave did LOVE his meat! And lets not start on turtles hate of pets but love for "his" pussy and fishy things....
> 
> Yep really miss the ole days..:lol2:


Lets not forget Gary on the LAWS forums. Every one's favourit hunt sab. How he used to love diving into the bush head first with his little horn in his hand. 

Gordon


----------



## blood and guts

Natrix said:


> What a shame all those old posts were lost when one of them hacked the forums.
> 
> First C-View and now Big Brother. Where can one go to see lunatics in their natural habitat these days:lol2:
> 
> Gordon


You just posted in that place mate:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## Row'n'Bud

Natrix said:


> What a shame all those old posts were lost when one of them hacked the forums.
> 
> First C-View and now Big Brother. Where can one go to see lunatics in their natural habitat these days:lol2:
> 
> Gordon


How about the APA annual xmas party or any of their demonstrations......lush seems to have quite a good collection of freaks and nut jobs going by their vids on you tube as well...:whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## benjo

YouTube - World Day for Animals in Laboratories 2010 - Andrew Tyler

is this guy masturbating whilst talking? or just have parkinsons?


----------



## fishboy

benjo said:


> YouTube - World Day for Animals in Laboratories 2010 - Andrew Tyler
> 
> is this guy masturbating whilst talking? or just have parkinsons?



Now now, that's not nice. Just because we disagree with some of his views , does not make it ok to take the mickey out of him having a debilitating disease. :whistling2:


----------



## Sephiroth

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet, but #2 is almost definitely Debbie Vincent...

BBC - Inside Out - East - Animal cruelty


----------



## ecoherp

*!!!!*

"Some confusion over what actually qualifications he holds, was touted as having a doctorate from Copenhagen University, but they never heard of him!"


----------



## jack_rep

this seemed worth a bump considering.


----------

