# Mini Me. The 'Super Pygmy' APH.



## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

We had an unplanned and unexpected litter of Hedgepigs that were discovered late last month. There were only 3 babies and it wasn't until they got bigger that I realised one was much smaller than the other two. She was immediately named 'Mini Me' by Lynne. Is there such a thing as a 'Super Dwarf APH' or is she just a 'runt'? Below are some photos of Mum, Dad and her siblings.

Mini Me weighs in @ 64g, her sister 167g and her brother 129g.









This is Dad, a black faced.









Mum, I'm not sure exactly what colour she is?









Mini Me.









Her sister.









Her brother









Mini Me, again.









Mini Me and her sister for a size comparison.

Have any other Hedgepig breeders had really small babies like this born?


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

awww mini me is cute :flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Mini me is very cute but the father is enormous how much does he weigh??


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

lol i was gonna say that shell 

dadda looks mahoooooosive he is one big hoggy 

mini me is sooooooo cute :flrt::flrt::flrt:


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

where did you get most of your info from?! a super minny?!! 

my new hoglet is TINY her parents where TINY i think she just comes from small lines and i wouldnt change her for the world! im sure your using American website because iv never heard of a super minny and iv never heard of dark faced ....

minni me is a low marked choc pinto 

my girlie has gotta be nine weeks now and she weighed 143g he mum was smaller than my male and she was still nursing!! 

im hoping she will put weight on as she grows im obv not expecting her to be the biggest of females i called her minny as she is small and has big ears (after minny mouse)  

ill get some pics i need new ones 

mum looks like a cinnocot and dad is an algerian reason i say he has eye patches xx


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> where did you get most of your info from?! a super minny?!!
> 
> my new hoglet is TINY her parents where TINY i think she just comes from small lines and i wouldnt change her for the world! im sure your using American website because iv never heard of a super minny and iv never heard of dark faced ....
> 
> ...


connor calm down they were asking if there is such a thing as a super pygmy hog or if she is just a runt because of the massive size difference


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

The mother looks like a brown snowflake to me (cinnacots have pink eyes, they look black as far as I can see). The father is a very attractive hedgehog who I could happily pinch :whistling2: I would say that the smallest baby is likely to be a runt as this would be far more common than a genetic condition such as dwarfism. She also looks proportional though small. She may have a shorter life than a normal hedgehog but as long as she's developing normally should live a normal life barring developing any problems related to growth issues. I love her sister btw, makes me want to get some more hedgehogs (I only have 2 left now) :mf_dribble:


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Mini me is very cute but the father is enormous how much does he weigh??





Emmaj said:


> lol i was gonna say that shell
> 
> dadda looks mahoooooosive he is one big hoggy
> 
> mini me is sooooooo cute :flrt::flrt::flrt:


Yep he is the biggest of our 'herd' and he's only 6 months old. We have a female who is 20 months old who is much the same size and weight. Oops maybe not having just weighed them both but these two are the exception. All the others are smaller.

I used to breed albiventris and those evil long eared ones whose name escapes me years ago and all of the albiventris were the same sort of size as the two pictured below. Nowadays there seems to be a lot of variation in sizes and weights. I understand that the Hogs being bred nowadays are hybrids, between what I don't know but could this explain the size differences between various bloodlines?









'Big Boy'.









Not quite so big Girl.


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

My male is also about 630g and ironically was the smallest in the litter when they were born. His sister is 'normal' size and weight for an APH - he's just a big ball of hedgehog :notworthy:


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> where did you get most of your info from?! a super minny?!!
> 
> my new hoglet is TINY her parents where TINY i think she just comes from small lines and i wouldnt change her for the world! im sure your using American website because iv never heard of a super minny and iv never heard of dark faced ....
> 
> ...


I was only asking whether there was a 'super pygmy' / mini Hedgepig in existence. I've never had a baby this small and just wondered if there was such a thing as a 'super dwarf '. Think how teeny they'd be as new borns!

I've never 'visited' a Yank Hog website so certainly wasn't getting info from one. I'm curious to see / hear if it is possible to breed smaller Hogs than the ones we currently have. From your post it seems it is possible by selecting the smallest and breeding from them.

I wish you well with your 'Minny'.


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## pumpkin1972 (Sep 4, 2009)

*cinnicot*



Fancy Mice said:


> The mother looks like a brown snowflake to me (cinnacots have pink eyes, they look black as far as I can see). The father is a very attractive hedgehog who I could happily pinch :whistling2: I would say that the smallest baby is likely to be a runt as this would be far more common than a genetic condition such as dwarfism. She also looks proportional though small. She may have a shorter life than a normal hedgehog but as long as she's developing normally should live a normal life barring developing any problems related to growth issues. I love her sister btw, makes me want to get some more hedgehogs (I only have 2 left now) :mf_dribble:


I have a Dark Eyed Cinnicot:flrt:


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

Fancy Mice said:


> The mother looks like a brown snowflake to me (cinnacots have pink eyes, they look black as far as I can see). The father is a very attractive hedgehog who I could happily pinch :whistling2: I would say that the smallest baby is likely to be a runt as this would be far more common than a genetic condition such as dwarfism. She also looks proportional though small. She may have a shorter life than a normal hedgehog but as long as she's developing normally should live a normal life barring developing any problems related to growth issues. I love her sister btw, makes me want to get some more hedgehogs (I only have 2 left now) :mf_dribble:


Thanks for the answers. Mini me is still with Mum but she is eating solids on her own. Heh she even managed to subdue and eat a sub adult Locust which was quite a battle for her!! Dad is very good looking, I love the 'Lone Ranger' style black mask! She seems to be developing fine, everything works and she seems normal apart from her size. We're keeping all 3 of the babies for future projects but we'll see how big she gets before we even think about breeding her. We do have a male Cinnacot Tobiano (I think that's what he is) who is small but we'll see what sort of size he gets to as he's only a youngster.


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

This girl looks brown in the photo, she did snowflake more as she got older and is now clearly snowflake, though darker than her brother:










And the baby that grew to be the 630g adult :gasp:


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

Fancy Mice said:


> This girl looks brown in the photo, she did snowflake more as she got older and is now clearly snowflake, though darker than her brother:
> 
> image
> 
> ...


I'm pleased someone else has Hedgepigs over half a kilo. Our male only looks 'roly poly' when he's being held. When he's trucking round in his cage he doesn't look anywhere near as chunky. Here's another pic of the Mum showing her eye colour better.


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

pumpkin1972 said:


> I have a Dark Eyed Cinnicot:flrt:


Great, what sex is it? Do you intend to breed from it in the future? Here's a better pic of our female.


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## Fancy Mice (Oct 10, 2006)

My girl looks the same colour IRL as yours does in the photo, except she has a slightly darker mask (although still pale). I'll find her baby photos in case that will help...

Just because it's funny:









And 'superhog'


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

ophidianman said:


> I was only asking whether there was a 'super pygmy' / mini Hedgepig in existence. I've never had a baby this small and just wondered if there was such a thing as a 'super dwarf '. Think how teeny they'd be as new borns!
> 
> I've never 'visited' a Yank Hog website so certainly wasn't getting info from one. I'm curious to see / hear if it is possible to breed smaller Hogs than the ones we currently have. From your post it seems it is possible by selecting the smallest and breeding from them.
> 
> I wish you well with your 'Minny'.


im so so sorry you took that as a negative comment.

do you have a link to the website you got the colours from and one you got the ''super dwarf '' from? xx

i do not class myyself as a very intelegent person but when hogs are concerned im clued up!

selecting the smallest and breeding them in my eyes is irrisponcable when choosing breeding stock you need to choose from quality health and weight it would be nice to have a smaller breeding plan but its not always great

it would be possible and what sex is minni me?? guessing its female??

some hogs are smaller than other some are larger, what food do you feed? whats that fat and protiene pecentage? 

if you want to PM me and we can discuss our small hogs and maybe update regulary and we can mayybe compare and keep diriess? x

ps sorry on spelling and all my comments are posative please dont take offence...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Our male was a lot smaller than the female but that is because he was born a few days later than the female. Could she of staggered the litter??? Just a thought.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> im so so sorry you took that as a negative comment.
> 
> do you have a link to the website you got the colours from and one you got the ''super dwarf '' from? xx
> 
> ...


 
connor im your mate an even i saw your reply was uncalled for you never even read what the OP said 

you need to calm your passions an just chill as you have said yourself on a few posts 

people are allowed to post threads asking advice without being jumped on like you did 

sorry i had to say that :gasp:


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Our male was a lot smaller than the female but that is because he was born a few days later than the female. Could she of staggered the litter??? Just a thought.


Hi. A very good thought. I have no idea. I didn't even know that was possible!! The litter was a total surprise to me. They were well 'spiked up' and as it was mums' first litter I just put the hide back in / over and left them to it. Here's a pic 4 weeks later.


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> connor im your mate an even i saw your reply was uncalled for you never even read what the OP said
> 
> you need to calm your passions an just chill as you have said yourself on a few posts
> 
> ...


i know hence the apology im in a foul mood and i really shouldn't take it out on here im real sorry to all members eh

its me im sensitive and OTT, im jumpy, you have to catch me in a good mood. im just a grumpy little kid that need's to hit realization xx


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## ophidianman (Sep 5, 2008)

Fancy Mice said:


> My girl looks the same colour IRL as yours does in the photo, except she has a slightly darker mask (although still pale). I'll find her baby photos in case that will help...
> 
> Just because it's funny:
> image
> ...


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## pgag_1_york (Mar 12, 2008)

Hi,

Yeah basically its a runt, they call it failure to thrive, you will more than likely find she never grows past the stage of a 8-12 week old hog with a life span of around 2.5 years,



> This is Dad, a black faced.


algerian choc by the looks of it,



> Mum, I'm not sure exactly what colour she is?


cinnamon



> (cinnacots have pink eyes,


they come in both black and ruby



> the Hogs being bred nowadays are hybrids, between what I don't know


four-toed hog (Atelerix albiventris) & algerian hog (_Atelerix algirus_)


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## Choggie (Apr 27, 2009)

My first litter of hedgehogs produced a large baby and a little baby









And here they are slightly older










I was concerned about the size difference but I was assured that he would catch up when he got onto solid foods - he has a lovely home with his new owner and here he is now










Harry has grown up to be a lovely little boy and spoilt rotten.

As for sizes of chogs, all of mine vary in size they are fed exactly the same amount of food apart from my new mums who get two feeds per day.










This is my latest litter.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> and one you got the ''super dwarf '' from? xx


The OP said that s/he was wondering if there was such a thing, not whether his/her Hoglet IS one. 



> selecting the smallest and breeding them in my eyes is irrisponcable when choosing breeding stock you need to choose from quality health and weight it would be nice to have a smaller breeding plan but its not always great


Pardon my ignorance, but how does small = unhealthy? APH's are dwarfed anyway, no?

Just a thought...do APH's carry a dwarfing gene, or are they genuine Pygmy's?


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> The OP said that s/he was wondering if there was such a thing, not whether his/her Hoglet IS one.
> 
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but how does small = unhealthy? APH's are dwarfed anyway, no?
> ...


idk if you hadn't seen pygag's post but. he states they wont grow past the stage of 8-12 weeks old and the lifespan could be 2.5 years!

why would we want to shorten the lifespan when we can have a higher lifespan  

yeah they are pygmy's making them a quarter of the size of the European hedgehog but tbh i think all hogs are nice no matter the size but i wouldnt select an overweight hog...


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

quilson_mc_spike said:


> idk if you hadn't seen pygag's post but. he states they wont grow past the stage of 8-12 weeks old and the lifespan could be 2.5 years!
> 
> why would we want to shorten the lifespan when we can have a higher lifespan
> 
> yeah they are pygmy's making them a quarter of the size of the European hedgehog but tbh i think all hogs are nice no matter the size but i wouldnt select an overweight hog...


Yes, I did see his/her post, I don't understand how anybody can be sure what has happened with this little hog though, it could be malnourishment from not feeding properly or it could be just the lines, get what I'm saying? I think it's a bit sweeping to say they are going to die at 2.5 years old because it's a runt? 
But what I was getting at in the first place was that a small (by breeding) hog wont be any different health wise to a large (by breeding) hog. : victory:


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## quilson_mc_spike (Dec 27, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Yes, I did see his/her post, I don't understand how anybody can be sure what has happened with this little hog though, it could be malnourishment from not feeding properly or it could be just the lines, get what I'm saying? I think it's a bit sweeping to say they are going to die at 2.5 years old because it's a runt?
> But what I was getting at in the first place was that a small (by breeding) hog wont be any different health wise to a large (by breeding) hog. : victory:


hmmm im not 100% sure but what about organ troubles? i was thinking maybe that the organs could turn out to be good but they may not i was thinking if the organs are normal size maybe they will grow to big? or two small? xx

but i do see what you mean,,


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