# which reptile?



## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

ive been looking for a caged pet and ive been wanting to get back into keeping reptiles. ive had turtles and tortoises in the past but im not sure i want to go this route again so im considering some other options, primarily monitors and iguanas

my concerns right now are for space, for the next two years i will probably be able to devote a 4' long 2' deep and 2' high enclosure, after 20 years from now i could go 8x4x4.. im wondering what species of monitors full grown can comfortably live in either of these enclosures if any?


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

no monitors can comfortably live in 4x2x2 - there are a few when you can go for the 8 footer


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

thats what i figured, but how long does it take a small one that can start out in a 4 footer before it needs something bigger? and what are some of the smaller breeds of monitor?


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## OwnedByPleuro (Dec 21, 2015)

It's a bit off topic, but have you considered a leopard gecko? They're amazing little lizards and where space is concerned, they have pretty small accommodation size needs. For example, I'm keeping my fully-grown male leo in a 10" x 20" viv right now and he's happy enough. I am looking up size-up soon, though, so I can fit in more hides and stuff  .


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

geckos just dont really interest me all that much

i should be moving pretty soon, depending on the room i may just build an enclosure along the wall which should easily be 8x4 feet, perhaps larger.. my questions are which breeds tend to be smaller (obviously not looking for a water monitor, though i do like those a lot) and of the smaller breeds, what are the feeding requirements at an adult size?.. how many rats a week for example?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

AnimusDivinus said:


> ive been looking for a caged pet and ive been wanting to get back into keeping reptiles. ive had turtles and tortoises in the past but im not sure i want to go this route again so im considering some other options, primarily monitors and iguanas
> 
> my concerns right now are for space, for the next two years i will probably be able to devote a 4' long 2' deep and 2' high enclosure, after 20 years from now i could go 8x4x4.. im wondering what species of monitors full grown can comfortably live in either of these enclosures if any?




So not a SNAKE ??

I've kept near enough every kinda fish you'll see in aquariums , lizards , Tortoises , Terrapins...and pretty much every kind of mammal ( even baby goats ) , a few kinds of birds ( and ducks ) but aside from dogs ( and cats to a lesser extent ) nothing comes even close to the enjoyment and wonder I get from my 21 snakes !!!


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

Zincubus said:


> So not a SNAKE ??
> 
> I've kept near enough every kinda fish you'll see in aquariums , lizards , Tortoises , Terrapins...and pretty much every kind of mammal ( even baby goats ) , a few kinds of birds ( and ducks ) but aside from dogs ( and cats to a lesser extent ) nothing comes even close to the enjoyment and wonder I get from my 21 snakes !!!


nah, not a snake, just sticking to monitors, green iguanas, MAYBE if nothing else, a tortoise or terrestrial turtle.. and ive considered some birds


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

i just dont want anythiing too small, ya know? thats why i havent considered geckos much.. and i like watching monitors hunt live prey, and they strike me as highly intelligent for a reptile too


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

i have two dogs right now, theyre getting "up there" in age, probably less than 5 years left.. when theyre gone and i have more resources and finances freed up, i will revisit the monitor idea and probably go with a small bedroom size terrarium and get a water monitor

until then, i'm going to keep it simple and focus on what i can get in a 4x2 terrarium.. i believe this would limit me to leopard geckos and dragons (bearded/water/sailfin)... so i understand what geckos are, leopards are common, active, seemingly intelligent for a reptile and not as small as i originally thought they were.. they strike me as something more of the "hamster" of the reptile world.. but worth consideration

now, i know enough about the bearded dragons, what they eat, size, enclosure, temperment.. but how do the chinese and australian water dragons and the green sailfin differ from the bearded? they all seem closely related


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Zincubus said:


> So not a SNAKE ??
> 
> I've kept near enough every kinda fish you'll see in aquariums , lizards , Tortoises , Terrapins...and pretty much every kind of mammal ( even baby goats ) , a few kinds of birds ( and ducks ) but aside from dogs ( and cats to a lesser extent ) nothing comes even close to the enjoyment and wonder I get from my 21 snakes !!!


What happened to the tortoises and terrapins as both are long lived?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

AnimusDivinus said:


> ive been looking for a caged pet and ive been wanting to get back into keeping reptiles. ive had turtles and tortoises in the past but im not sure i want to go this route again so im considering some other options, primarily monitors and iguanas
> 
> my concerns right now are for space, for the next two years i will probably be able to devote a 4' long 2' deep and 2' high enclosure, after 20 years from now i could go 8x4x4.. im wondering what species of monitors full grown can comfortably live in either of these enclosures if any?


Again as above - turtles can live up to 35 years and tortoise three times that.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

Stephen P said:


> Again as above - turtles can live up to 35 years and tortoise three times that.


they were adult western painted turtles other people found and gave to me when i was 8-10 years old, they were wild and i ended up re-releasing them back where they belonged


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

aah, nevermind my comment then, thought you were talking to me


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

AnimusDivinus said:


> they were adult western painted turtles other people found and gave to me when i was 8-10 years old, they were wild and i ended up re-releasing them back where they belonged


You're obviously not in the UK then :2thumb:


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> What happened to the tortoises and terrapins as both are long lived?



I had them as a kid but that was around 50 years ago lol

Why was that relevant anyways ??


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Zincubus said:


> I had them as a kid but that was around 50 years ago lol
> 
> Why was that relevant anyways ??


No, it wasn't particularly. Though I always wonder why people say they used to keep them, but don't any more given their long lifespan - its just me being me:lol2:! Ours could quite likely outlive me.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> No, it wasn't particularly. Though I always wonder why people say they used to keep them, but don't any more given their long lifespan - its just me being me:lol2:! Ours could quite likely outlive me.



No worries .

I recall taking my Tortoise and Hamster with us down to Cornwall on holiday . The hamster escaped out of its cage on the way down end was found weeks later in the lining of the rear seat - sponge bits everywhere ..


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

yeah, im not in the UK, western painted turtles are native where im from and almost every turtle id find in the wild was one of them and the local laws where im at say i can own anything i want so long as it can be legally acquired


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

well, im fairly certain ive decided on either geckos (leopard, or giant day) or dragons (bearded or sailfin)

any thoughts on any of these?


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

AnimusDivinus said:


> well, im fairly certain ive decided on either geckos (leopard, or giant day) or dragons (bearded or sailfin)
> 
> any thoughts on any of these?


Sailfin dragons are know to reach 3ft in lenght and have quite specialist requirments. They are also quite bulky lizards too. You would probably have the same space issues as you would with a monitor lizard. Sailfins also take a fair bit of work to come around and calm down. 

I keep beardies and they are quite easy lizards and I enjoy having them, I've no knowledge of leopard or giant day geckos. But picked up a couple of Frog Eyed a little over a week ago and quite like them.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

seems to be three species of sailfin available, the weber was the one i was looking at, females seem to be about the same size as male beardeds but theyre semi-arboreal and would need an enclosure as tall as it is wide

but what about their temperment and behavior compared to bearded?


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

AnimusDivinus said:


> seems to be three species of sailfin available, the weber was the one i was looking at, females seem to be about the same size as male beardeds but theyre semi-arboreal and would need an enclosure as tall as it is wide
> 
> but what about their temperment and behavior compared to bearded?


Looking at what I've read about sailfins in the past I think my previous comment answers that question. They are not somthing that tames down very easily and as I said they require a very specialist setup, I know a couple of people in the UK that have Indonesian Sailfins and the type of setup they have to go with them. I don't imagine the husbandry being very different between the sub species. 

You would have no guarantee over the sex of the animal unless going for an adult.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

supatips said:


> Looking at what I've read about sailfins in the past I think my previous comment answers that question. They are not somthing that tames down very easily and as I said they require a very specialist setup, I know a couple of people in the UK that have Indonesian Sailfins and the type of setup they have to go with them. I don't imagine the husbandry being very different between the sub species.
> 
> You would have no guarantee over the sex of the animal unless going for an adult.


can you get a guarantee of gender from beardeds?


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

AnimusDivinus said:


> can you get a guarantee of gender from beardeds?


No, only once it reaches a certain size.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

ok then, i'll eliminate the other dragons from the pool, bearded dragon, or one of the geckos.. and honestly, im considering both

so im thinking of building the 4x2x2 bearded habitat on top of a cabinet (to store supplies on) but reinforce the cage in the center so i could also stack 2x2x1 gecko habitats on top or even another bearded habitat if i choose.. theyd all be enclosed on all sides except the front, possibly stone or tree bark veneered on the inside walls and floor, lined with individual substrate and maybe even set up a little plumbing that makes sure the water supply is constantly filtered and refreshed

of course since both these types of reptiles are omnivorous, i would likely also build a cricket habitat for a breeding colony of feeder crickets

eventually id like to breed one of the types of reptiles, either the dragons or geckos, though no idea which


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

AnimusDivinus said:


> can you get a guarantee of gender from beardeds?


There is a quite reliable method of determining gender even in hatchling lizards of many species and families (other than Varanids which feature in the title), it`s called the "transillumination technique"...
A 4 x 2 x 2 feet enclosure is very small for an adult (male) Bearded dragon (even though many people do keep them in that size). 


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihx4jkiNrLAhXFoD4KHZhNADIQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvaranidae.org%2FVol3_No1_Brown.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE-nKHJN6HRbK5Bmuveicyg5rQ-AA&sig2=TAMMQGmxXrpbPrEUh7LvqA&bvm=bv.117604692,d.ZWU


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

well, the max floor size of my "reptile area" will be 8x4 on the floor and height limited by the ceiling.. so if the bearded outgrows the 4x2, is move it to a 6x2 and stack the a couple 2x2x1 gecko cages beside it


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

AnimusDivinus said:


> well, the max floor size of my "reptile area" will be 8x4 on the floor and height limited by the ceiling.. so if the bearded outgrows the 4x2, is move it to a 6x2 and stack the a couple 2x2x1 gecko cages beside it


i will build my habitats to be somewhat modular so they can be stacked safety in various ways, possibly anchored to the wall and inlet/outlets for the plumbing that can be easily be connected

so i guess i just made the decision to get both types of geckos and a bearded.. not sure if i specifically want a male bearded, i may just get a juvenile and let it be a surprise and if i decide i will breed these instead of the geckos i will get a somewhat grown dragon of the verified opposite gender later

question though, what in your opinions would be the better breeding project? geckos, or beardeds?


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

AnimusDivinus said:


> i will build my habitats to be somewhat modular so they can be stacked safety in various ways, possibly anchored to the wall and inlet/outlets for the plumbing that can be easily be connected
> 
> so i guess i just made the decision to get both types of geckos and a bearded.. not sure if i specifically want a male bearded, i may just get a juvenile and let it be a surprise and if i decide i will breed these instead of the geckos i will get a somewhat grown dragon of the verified opposite gender later
> 
> question though, what in your opinions would be the better breeding project? geckos, or beardeds?


That depends on your market. Over here in the UK, the market is saturated with both and they need a serious break from breeding as supply has far outweighed demand. You can't even pay people to take baby beardies off you any more. 
For geckos, you'd need some pretty high-end, expensive morphs to make it marginally profitable. I'd personally go geckos just for the variety of different morphs you can get, but again, it really depends on your market. If you don't have enough interest then don't breed.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

yeah, thats what i was thinking as well.. also losing interest in geckos in general, so mostly just the bearded now on my list and possibly the green tree monitor


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

i seen a bearded dragon recently that looked to be black with red spikes.. is this a particular morph?


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

A picture would be useful.


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

i cant find where i seen it but im almost certain now it was just a red bearded dragon with ackward lighting

also, depending on where i move next will determine my maximum enclosure size.. i was forced to move about halfway across the country to aid my family when my dad died last year so im in a small apartment right now that was only meant to be temporary so im currently looking for a larger, more permanent habitat for myself right now and depending on that will determine if im going to build a 4x2x2 or 8x4x4 vivarium.. 

the 4x2 ive learned is suitable for bearded dragons and small ackie monitors, the 8x4 after extensive research ive found is suitable for medium size monitors like savannahs, white-throated, and peach throated monitors

i will continue doing more research on the habitat requirements for each of these and more


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## AnimusDivinus (Mar 20, 2016)

ive decided i will definitely go with a monitor


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