# "Dart frogs can't swim"



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Where does this come from?

I've seen my leucs and azureus swimming through the water with little difficulty, one of the leucs I've seen spend a good 30 seconds submerged completely. I wouldn't be confident in a large expanse of open water but they're more than competent from what I can tell.

Opinions?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Isn't the current concensus that it comes from the habit of sick and weak frogs of sitting in water and then dieing? Thus making folks think they drowned? Saying that, I know I have been told that some species do seem to be poor swimmers. I can say with certainty however that Borja Ridge vents are EXCELLENT swimmers, even diving beneath the surface.

I wouldn't be confident of saying MYTH BUSTED however, as I haven't kept every single dart frog species/morph there is. I would however say that the myth that NO dartfrogs can swim is definitely busted.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes but I haven't really heard anyone say they can in fact swim, rather that the drowning issue has been debunked.

I'd imagine Terribilis would be rubbish swimmers.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Possibly, and another hobbyist told me that imitators (jaberos in this case) are bad bad bad swimmers as well.

Maybe it's just safer to tell folks that dart frogs can't swim, rather than try to find out which ones can and which ones can't? I know I tend to prefer to err on the side of caution myself.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I bathe with mine.


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## Howson (May 5, 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I bathe with mine.


ROFL :no1:


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

i supose swimming and not drowning are different things though :lol2:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What's the definition of swimming?


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## Joner (Aug 19, 2008)

Sinking with style!


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

sambridge15 said:


> i supose swimming and not drowning are different things though :lol2:


Something like that.

Dart frogs are not, in general good swimmers.....and they are quite easy to drown.

My thumbnails dive into quite deep water to select the tadpoles to pick-up and 'save' (ie one to continue in life and one to be food)....they pop in and out with ease: but they are in total control with such ventures.

But that does not mean they are good swimmers.

They can drown in quite shallow water quite quickly....especially if held under by another frog (in a battle).

ian


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Thumbnails covers a LOT of species Ian, including Imitators which I already noted I was told were very poor swimmers. My Borja Ridge vents are thumbnails as well, and are EXCELLENT swimmers! They may not chose to swim for fun, but they regularly take a short cut through the water at the front of their viv, and bomb across the surface, or dive under to check something out that they have spotted. Vents are a thumbnail as well, so you definitely can't just use the word thumbnails there, it's too broad an umbrella term.

As to drowning in shallow water, so can humans. Same for been held under, even the strongest human swimmer will drown if you hold them under water... lol

Ade


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

I would use thumbnails as a broad umbrella in this as they are one of the better swimmers of the PDFs.
If they were at the other end of the spectrum, then that would have been cited as so.

It is not just about being held down to drown. 
Humans are not actually good swimmers....so even the best human swimmer is crap.

Dart frogs can easily run into trouble....just like humans. 
RETF are in a similar boat.....they can be said to be very good swimmers....but can easily run into trouble.

Maybe they are good at treading water.

If I can see evidence that they are as good underwater as african clawed frogs or as a fish then I'd be very interested. 

Plonking into a shallow still water dish is not evidence.

Now, it is quite easy to drown a fish but that doesn't mean they can't swim.

Of course, it does depend on what is classed as a good swimmer, what is simply 'cant swim', or what is an ability to scramble in water.

I would class PDFs as not very good swimmers....not as can't swim. 

ian


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Hmmm, so what you are saying is that you are basically arguing the same as saying olympic gold medlist swimmers aren't good swimmers because a shark is way better... Yeah ok, sure, if you say so. lol

Cheers for making me smile.

Ade


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Wolfenrook said:


> Hmmm, so what you are saying is that you are basically arguing the same as saying olympic gold medlist swimmers aren't good swimmers because a shark is way better... Yeah ok, sure, if you say so. lol
> 
> Cheers for making me smile.
> 
> Ade


Trust me......I have a few grey hairs.  and I can't swim, so I know what a bad swimming is (maybe I just don't know what a good swimmer is :lol2.

Good swimmer, bad swimmer.....it is relative. The problem that we have when judging a non-olympic quality swimmer is what is a 'good swimmer'.

This can be important when constructing a tank for dart frogs.....if what is called 'a good swimmer' is taken to mean as good as a fish, then that may be a problem. Whereas a viv construction under the tag of 'not good swimmers' may just highlight the importance to not be over confident in thinking the dart frog can swim like a fish and have the ability to get out of sticky situations.
Hence why I go with caution and class them as 'poor swimmers'. In 20 years of keeping them I've not come to a different conclusion only that some are better than others in the water.

Anyway, unlike an olympic swimmer....I don't give my dart frogs ability enhancing drugs, nor a swim cap.

ian


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, I'd put them as poor swimmers, but not completely incapable.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Semantics and hair splitting.

The original question this thread, in the title, asks is whether dart frogs can swim. The answer is some can and some can't. The qualification is, don't take unnecessary risks. No 2 species are exactly the same, even within a group (such as thumbnails). As to where the belief that none can swim comes from, as already said part of it is from the myth created by sick frogs been found dead in water, and partly from people just repeating what those they perceive as experts say. If enough people say it, it must be true right? lol

There, nice and simple, with no arguing. 

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I wasn't arguing. I was pretty much agreeing with you.


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Wolfenrook said:


> Semantics and hair splitting.
> 
> The original question this thread, in the title, asks is whether dart frogs can swim. The answer is some can and some can't. The qualification is, don't take unnecessary risks. No 2 species are exactly the same, even within a group (such as thumbnails). As to where the belief that none can swim comes from, as already said part of it is from the myth created by sick frogs been found dead in water, and partly from people just repeating what those they perceive as experts say. If enough people say it, it must be true right? lol
> 
> ...


Just to add another bit of hair splitting, the title of the thread didn't ask if pdfs can swim....it stated the can't swim (as a question/exclamation).
:devil:

Mind you, I've never mistaken an autopsy of dead sick frog (well....I suppose it could be called an ex-sick frog if its dead) as one of drowning.
Ummm...but I suppose it would be good to use the internet to see what people are saying.

Anyway, I've got some water changes to make (for fish, not frogs). 

ian


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Just noticed.....I note someone from Staffordshire here.
I'm originally from the Shropshire/Staffs/worcester area. 

ian


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I had types a long answer, but reconsidered, and have decided to replace it with a simple yeah ok bud, whatever. Have a nice day etc.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

Someone above mentioned red eyes, well in general most of the monkey frogs of agalych/pholly are poor swimmers. Many using shallow ditches or leaves and pond edges to lay eggs. 
I've had hypocondralis drown in less than an inch of water!


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