# Graphic suffering of baby female brb dead!



## Schip

Here is a pic of the 2 BRB's spirit collected for me on 6th July 









This is the horrific death experience Spirit and the female baby have endured tonight less than 2 wks later!
Something not right








Writhing in agony







ny
Just before her blessed relief from suffering









I am absolutely gutted as these guys were due to come to me next week once spirit was more settled from her house move so I've never got to hold her or see her in the flesh.


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## timberwolf

Awwwww Schip... poor little lass, what was it, any idea?


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## spirit975

We`re not sure. Will have some more answers after the PM on monday. It was awful to watch her writhing about...just awful. At least she is at peace now.


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## sparkle

that is deadfully sad...

im sorry for your loss and hope the Pm shows something

I know it cant bring her back but it may be a tiny bit easier to deal with if you know why...


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## SiUK

thats horrible poor little mite, sorry for your loss


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## Declan123

So Sorry for your loss.... He Was a Stunner... Now he isnt suffering

Please keep me updating about the PM's please

x


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## Kathryn666

SO sorry. That is just awful. Hope you get answers :sad:

RIP baby brb


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## davehuston

Sorry mate. Thats bad....... do you mind if I ask were it come from? 

Best of luck.


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## Epicrates

thats horrible, poor little thing, even if the breeder gives you your money back thats no substitute at all for seeing an animal suffer and die.


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## Schip

You have pm dave, the breeder is only offering a replacement which is not acceptable I really wouldn't want Spirit to go thru that again even if she wasn't 6mths pregnant! 

Why on earth would anyone want a replacement from the same adult animals, I am determined to get to the bottom of this so the remaining baby is going to the vets for tests too whilst still alive to see if we can get a diagnosis, there really is no point me finding another mate for the remaining baby if it has a fatal defect that will kill its young!


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## bendigo

RIP lil one!


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## buddy

omg that is horrible looks in so much pain . that would have been a dreadful experience to go through watching that stunning baby die like that xx

Hope Pm comes back with answers xx

RIP little girl


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## Anthony

That's terrible, i breed BRB's & would absolutly hate to see that happen or for a customer of mine to witness such a thing, hope the PM gives some answers & that the remaining is healthy & ill free.


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## Schip

Unfotunately I've been advised this is not the only baby brb to die in this way from this individual, so I am having the vet investigate the live one too in the hope that the problem can be proven either way. Pathogens and some health issues are eaiser to diagnose in living organisms ergo both being checked.


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## Anthony

Oh no, this is a very sad thread indeed, with BRB's being my favourite species of snake 

I hope you can manage to get to the bottom of this & save any remaining, has the breeder been spoken to & informed that the majority of the babies have turned out this way?


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## Schip

Schip said:


> Unfotunately I've been advised this is not the only baby brb to die in this way from this individual,
> 
> As I said mine is not the only 1 what others have done regarding their losses is upto them but I would hope its NOT the majority of the hatchlings due to the horrific death they experience.
> 
> I have saved for a long time to get my brb's as I am disabled on a limited income with carers to pay, so to lose this baby is bad enough but now of course I've got a vets bill to pay out in a bid to prevent such suffering of the other animal with no prospect of breeding from it later in life if it lives. Makes you feel like giving up totally!:bash:


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## Lisasgeckonursery

i know its a bit different but i had a non feeding corn that fitted in that way before it died, did it eat ok once it was at your place?
the vet said mine was due to lack of nutrients where it had starved.


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## ghandi_spiller

aww thats really sad! poor bugger! hope u get the answers, and hopefully no other animals from the breeder are gonna suffer!


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## madzombieguy

I had my little garter for around 10 years, just before he passed away, he done the same thing as you can see in the pictures you posted.
He was cared for VERY WELL, and I miss the little guy alot. 

If anyone can shed any light on why this happens, please also let me know.

Very sorry for your loss


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## spirit975

Well i`ve taken the little lass to the vet today for a full PM, so hopefully we will have some answers soon. 
There was actually a point where i was going to euthanase the poor critter myself when she starting writhing to end her suffering, but its a very hard decision to make knowing that anything i do could jeopardise the PM results and therefore never knowing and possibly putting other animals at risk....really hard call. I`m just glad she went pretty quickly at the end, and took the decision out of my hands although not an experience i would wish on anyone.
RIP little one.


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## Maureen Collinson

about_a_girluk said:


> i know its a bit different but i had a non feeding corn that fitted in that way before it died, did it eat ok once it was at your place?
> the vet said mine was due to lack of nutrients where it had starved.


A very good point, and one that came straight to my mind when I looked at the photos, including the first one, as their back bone stands out all the way through their bodies.

I will be interested in hearing the pm results too. So sorry that you had to witness your snake dying in this way.
RIP little one.  I have also witnessed that way of dying one time too many. It is horrible to watch.

Mo. x


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## fatratsandcheesekk

aaawwwwwwwwwwwwww my heart goes out to you mo

sorry for you loss


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## spirit975

Maureen Collinson said:


> A very good point, and one that came straight to my mind when I looked at the photos, including the first one, as their back bone stands out all the way through their bodies.
> 
> I will be interested in hearing the pm results too. So sorry that you had to witness your snake dying in this way.
> RIP little one.  I have also witnessed that way of dying one time too many. It is horrible to watch.
> 
> Mo. x


They both had 2 feeds in the time they were here, but yes i agree, that top photo was taken immediately after getting them home and i do think they were both a little underweight.


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## Lisasgeckonursery

yeah i hope you get your answers even if some reps eat they could have trouble taking nutriants in. RIP little un.


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## LiddleTina

Schip said:


> Schip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfotunately I've been advised this is not the only baby brb to die in this way from this individual,
> 
> As I said mine is not the only 1 what others have done regarding their losses is upto them but I would hope its NOT the majority of the hatchlings due to the horrific death they experience.
> 
> I have saved for a long time to get my brb's as I am disabled on a limited income with carers to pay, so to lose this baby is bad enough but now of course I've got a vets bill to pay out in a bid to prevent such suffering of the other animal with no prospect of breeding from it later in life if it lives. Makes you feel like giving up totally!:bash:
> 
> 
> 
> i picked up a brb from the same breeder/same litter 3 weeks ago and he`s absolutely perfect...he`s eating well and absolutely thriving...no problems whatsoever.
> i don`t know how you came to the conclusion that any of the others are even ill let alone dying or dead because each and every owner has been contacted and ALL of them are fine.
> i`m sorry for your loss and i hope your vet can shed some light on what has happened here...how were your temps and humidity?
> i would not hesitate to buy from this breeder and i`m sure yours is just an unfortunate victim of circumstance and seeing as you hadn`t taken posession of your snakes when this occured how can you be sure what has been happening to them over the last two weeks.
> these pictures were taken today and as you can see he`s fit,healthy and happy.
Click to expand...


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## Schip

seeing as you hadn`t taken posession of your snakes when this occured how can you be sure what has been happening to them over the last two weeks.

I'm sure Spirit is well pleased to hear she's killed my BRB coz you doubt her capabilities! 

Interesting I've not given the breeders details out but you are vouching for said individual a good friend then I take it, lets hope your baby carries on doing well?


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## LiddleTina

Schip said:


> seeing as you hadn`t taken posession of your snakes when this occured how can you be sure what has been happening to them over the last two weeks.
> 
> I'm sure Spirit is well pleased to hear she's killed my BRB coz you doubt her capabilities!
> 
> Interesting I've not given the breeders details out but you are vouching for said individual a good friend then I take it, lets hope your baby carries on doing well?


i don`t think i said anyone had killed anything in my post i was only asking a valid question to which you don`t seem to have an answer 
i don`t see where i`ve said anything about doubting her capabilities...you were the one who said that.
and as far as the breeder goes i have never met them before doing business with them and the only reason i know so much is because i know quite a few of the other owners who bought the same babies...and they`re all thriving.
will you be letting us all in on the results of the post mortem?
: victory:


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## ferretlad

That was very sad to read about your lil snake. R.I.P lil snakie.


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## Crownan

Hmm, a huge shame.

Can you post up some more background info? Like Birth-date, date you bought it, number of feeds and when, number of sheds and when. Any other symptoms? Weights, lengths etc? 

Very sorry for your loss


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## Schip

You know what you're implying with the phrase used in that post, I've made no mention of who the breeder is so how can you possibly know your baby is from the same person really!

For me the person who has care of my animals is very trustworthy and experienced I know that because I've known her since she was 11 years old I also know how she feels about this and what you've said on here but I will leave it to her to reply to your implications.

Purely for reasons of confidentiality I am not going to give any detail out other than has been posted upto now but Crowman I can answer you in some part.
DOB unknown 
Feeding/shedding records again non supplied

Time with Spirit both animals took 2 feeds but as death occured within 13 days of purchase that's not really any help. The vet has an inclination of the potential problem as does the vet involved in the pm of another young from this breeder ergo bloods and swabs will be taken from the remaining live snake to confirm.


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## Kami22

RIP little one... Theres nothing worse than not knowing what went wrong  hope you get to the bottom of it soon  and im sure it was noones fault...


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## Mush

do we know what this one died of yet?


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## Schip

Not yet no still awaiting lab results.


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## Schip

I have had some results from the vet that show this baby had a bacterial infection and died from Septacemia with infection around the heart am waiting the full report in the post.


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## hermanlover

awww, so sorry to hear it, at least now you know what was wrong. R.I.P little baby

so sorry you had to go through all of this, best of luck : victory:


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## Andy

Horrible news. Did the vet give any idea how long this was present?


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## Mush

Schip said:


> I have had some results from the vet that show this baby had a bacterial infection and died from Septacemia with infection around the heart am waiting the full report in the post.


 
how would this of occured? what would cause this sort of thing?


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## Schip

The vet said the infection would have been first with it then progressing to septicemia, until I get the written report I know no more.

I am sure Spirit975 will give more details later but as she's at the hospital with visiting her mother, who has mrsa in a 12 inch wound after spinal surgery last friday I'm sure we can wait a while. In light of the stress involved with mother and her pregancy I wasn't prepared to quiz her too deeply after it had been implied on here her husbandary technique over the 13 days the snakes were with her could be responsible the poor woman is upset enough. 

The vet has advised caution with the 2nd baby purchased at the same time as has only taken 2 feeds same as the 1st one but hasn't eaten since its siblings death, hence it not coming to my house just incase it needs veterinary attention at least the same vet will be dealing with both animals.


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## spirit975

As Schip say its been a fair few days for me lol but from what i scribbled down from the phonecall from the vet:

Nothing visual was found, the brain, kidneys, bowels etc appeared to be normal. From the histology:
Cause of death was Septicemia from a bacterial infection that i didn`t catch the name of due to it being in "vet speak" and me trying in vain to fill the back of an envelope faster than he was talking.:blush: That, i`m sure will become clear when i`ve actually got the written report, which i imagine to be tomorrow or Wednesday.
The infected cells were found around the heart of the brb so it had obviously entered the bloodstream causing the septicemia and causing the heart to fail, although exactly how the infection got into the bloodstream will probably never be determined.
He said once the septicemia is developed, death can occur within 24 hours, or up to a few weeks. The original infection could have been in its system from birth, ie infection entering the umbilicus, or could have been picked up by a snake at any point from then onwards, and i quote "who has a weak immune system due to general poor health"

Now on my part, i collected both BRBs for Schip and brought them home, where they were immediately seperated (they were kept in communal tubs previously) and were both placed in new sterilised tubs as are all new snakes here. They both had damp kitchen towel as a substrate and were sprayed for humidity etc and kept at precisely the same temps and treated exactly the same. (please remember this was originally a temporary set up as they were supposed to go up to Schip that week) 

I don`t really believe true "quarantine" can be achieved in a home environment, but normal sterile procedures were in place, changing tongs, sterilising water bowls etc and everything here has been totally unaffected by any sort of infection. The vet said it almost certainly wasn`t infectious/contagious. 
I actually made a mistake, the brbs had ONE feed and not TWO as i originally stated, this was a mess up on my behalf and i didn`t click until i checked all my feeding records today. 
The fluff she took on that occasion was from a batch i`ve been feeding to everything else without any problems.

Although it is likely that "blame" as such will never be truly established, i have been racking my brains and gone through every move i made in my head over and over....i am more than certain that she was not exposed to any sort of infection risk whilst in my care.

Thats all i know for now, again we`ll know more from the written report.


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## rhino wrufc

very sad ,,, i have 2 o8 brbs , they are so sweet i hope this dont put you off getting another .


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## Andy

I wouldn't say its anything you could of done its possibly just one of those things.


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## gargoylejohn

aww, thats awful! RIP


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## Iliria

r.i.p


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## Sybil

So sorry for your loss, I watched my Sybil die this week and it was heart breaking, at least she seemed calm, but to see your snake writhing in pain like that must have been dreadful for you. My deepest sympathy to you, and you are in my thoughts


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## beege_3

My brother in law had something similar happen to his baby kingsnake, said it was awful to watch. 

Sorry for your loss.


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## ZenElements

I'm sorry for your loss, Schip. Such a shame.

Hope answers may reveal themselves to you as to why her time was so short. RIP.


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## GlitterBug

R.I.P 

Sorry for your loss


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