# offering live food to your snake



## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

ok i just thought id see how other people go about it and maybe the method i use could be improved.
At the moment when i offer live rodents to my royals i grip them by the scruff of the neck with long locking forceps and offer them by creating a half moon motion about 12" infront of the snake until it strikes only releasing once the snake has a good grip on the prey.
for larger rodents i sometimes stunn them before being offered.
anyone elses methods would be great cheers


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

Get them from the freezer, defrost... I find this method works best, and if they dont eat I can leave it in


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

yea i used to do that until a few turned fussy feeders and i was chucking away defrosted rats all the time.
and if live gets refused they live another week lol


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

Personally i would rather waste a few quid on throwing away uneaten rats than risk live rats damaging my snakes.


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

in my case thats over £10 a feed if they all arent intrested tho.


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

covkev said:


> in my case thats over £10 a feed if they all arent intrested tho.



Its 25 pound for me if there not interested...


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I personally feel it is extremely cruel to hold the rodent in tongs and offer it to the snake. It is not something I would do at all. 

If you really have exhausted all other options and live is the only way to get the snake to eat, then use a rodent young enough to not be able to damage the snake easily, and supervise the feeding. If the rodent is a bit small size wise for the snake, offer more than one, once the first is eaten, of course.


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

covkev said:


> in my case thats over £10 a feed if they all arent intrested tho.


In my case it's about that too..but still cheaper than vets bills for a bitten snake!


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## laranicheallaigh (Apr 19, 2008)

Its illegal in the UK to feed live vetebrae


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

laranicheallaigh said:


> Its illegal in the UK to feed live vetebrae


*tut* No its not, not really recommended but not illegal.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snakes/69279-live-feeding-laws.html


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## laranicheallaigh (Apr 19, 2008)

Well then i was taught wrong in college.....


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

laranicheallaigh said:


> Well then i was taught wrong in college.....


I would change college then :lol:


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## laranicheallaigh (Apr 19, 2008)

I did :lol2:


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## Majestic Morphs (Apr 8, 2008)

Have you tried fresh kill??


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

i guess no one has any other techniques then?


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## dickvansheepcake (Jul 8, 2009)

*no, no, no!!*

i'm sure it is illegal. If not it should be. I know it happens in nature, but the way your doing it isn't exactly natural is it. Very cruel. If it went wrong and your snake gets injured then it's animal cruelty against your snake not only the poor mouse. All just to save a bit of cash. If you truly cared about your pets then you would be ready and willing to spend some money on them. If not then you should have thought about cash flow before getting pets.
Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but I feel very strongly about animal welfare. Personally I put my animals ahead of anything else and will happily work extra shifts and miss nights out if they need or want for anything.


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

dickvansheepcake said:


> i'm sure it is illegal. If not it should be. I know it happens in nature, but the way your doing it isn't exactly natural is it. Very cruel. If it went wrong and your snake gets injured then it's animal cruelty against your snake not only the poor mouse. All just to save a bit of cash. If you truly cared about your pets then you would be ready and willing to spend some money on them. If not then you should have thought about cash flow before getting pets.
> Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but I feel very strongly about animal welfare. Personally I put my animals ahead of anything else and will happily work extra shifts and miss nights out if they need or want for anything.


i can see your point but.i dont mind really too much about the cash side of things its not a problem,im an animal lover myself and probably spend more time caring for my rodents than my snakes.and i know EXACTLY what my rodents are fed on.unlike the skinney rubbish from the reptile shops have.
some take pre- killed prey but a few have come from america and grew up on live refusin anything but.
im not starving a £1000 +snake for the well well being of the prey it feeds on...........
Which is why ive posted a topic refering to different methods other people use for feeding live not other peoples concerns or dislikes to it.
thanks for your opninion anyway cheers kev


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

covkev said:


> i guess no one has any other techniques then?


As you've probably already worked out, live feeding is a rather emotive subject with some. As much as I dislike some of the "fluffy huggers", I can kinda see their perspective as I would probably be the first to jump down someones throat if they posted up looking for methods to live-feed royals to cobras or recipes for boa soup. For that reason lots of people would be hesitant to discuss their experiances over an open forum. Feel free to add me on msn or pm me if you want to continue this chat........


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

have you tried freshly killed...
as in kill it feed it?


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## dickvansheepcake (Jul 8, 2009)

I think you should be concerned for the welfare of such a special snake. Has it not crossed your mind that live rodents can do a surprising amount of damage to a snake. In my last message that was the point I was getting at. It is quite cruel to the mouse but it is also dangerous for the snake. Working in a vets I have recently seen a snake come in that had to have its eye removed and was left with extensive scarring around the nose and mouth because it was being fed live rodents and it went wrong. Snakes depending on size can safely go for months even a year without feeding and certainly don't starve. If it gets hungry it WILL eat what it is offered! A snake won't just not eat to the point of dying.

The owner of the injured snake was reported to the RSPCA for animal cruelty by the way because the damage to the snake was entirely his fault, i'm not sure if he had the snake taken from him but he was fined.
I am simply saying this because I am concerned that something similar may happen to your snake. I probably would not feel so strongly were it not for seeing such a horrific outcome to feeding live rodents.


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

ok point taken i guess ill be trying to move the rest of the fussy eaters on fresh killed.aslong as it may take.cheers for your time


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

Have you read the feeding tips in the snake section? http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snakes/29768-feeding-tips.html I have nothing against live feeding IF it is the only way your snake will eat but i would try every other option first.If you have any problems there are lots of people in the snake section with a lot on knowledge on helping problem feeders,just post a thread asking for help.


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## DazedLewis (Aug 21, 2008)

dickvansheepcake said:


> I think you should be concerned for the welfare of such a special snake. Has it not crossed your mind that live rodents can do a surprising amount of damage to a snake. In my last message that was the point I was getting at. It is quite cruel to the mouse but it is also dangerous for the snake. Working in a vets I have recently seen a snake come in that had to have its eye removed and was left with extensive scarring around the nose and mouth because it was being fed live rodents and it went wrong. Snakes depending on size can safely go for months even a year without feeding and certainly don't starve. If it gets hungry it WILL eat what it is offered! A snake won't just not eat to the point of dying.
> 
> The owner of the injured snake was reported to the RSPCA for animal cruelty by the way because the damage to the snake was entirely his fault, i'm not sure if he had the snake taken from him but he was fined.
> I am simply saying this because I am concerned that something similar may happen to your snake. I probably would not feel so strongly were it not for seeing such a horrific outcome to feeding live rodents.


That is not always the case many royals will just starve to death if they are addicted to live food and offered dead rodents.

What is your history in snake keeping?

I have never fed live but you have 4 posts and just wondering if you are another one of these armchair experts who has never experienced fussy feeders...


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't know if this has already been said, but feeding live can mean life over death for the snake, or reducing stunting...
In those cases believe that refusing it live food is much more cruel than doing what would happen naturally..
I also believe it is unnecessary, unless your last option, however.


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## DazedLewis (Aug 21, 2008)

reptile_man_08 said:


> I don't know if this has already been said, but feeding live can mean life over death for the snake, or reducing stunting...
> In those cases believe that refusing it live food is much more cruel than doing what would happen naturally..
> I also believe it is unnecessary, unless your last option, however.


Exactly it is TONNES better to have it on defrost, but I sympathise with people who have amazing royals hooked on live, and as long as you're working on getting it onto defrost I think it would be cruel to deprive a snake of the food it is used to.

Its like if a dog has eaten beef all its life and wont eat anything else, and you want it on chicken, but it wont eat it, its unfair to starve it...


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

DazedLewis said:


> That is not always the case many royals will just starve to death if they are addicted to live food and offered dead rodents.
> 
> What is your history in snake keeping?
> 
> I have never fed live but you have 4 posts and just wondering if you are another one of these armchair experts who has never experienced fussy feeders...


 original post was asking for techniques others use for live feeding.i wish i was an armchair expert i wouldnt be asking for tips to start with.theres nothing more frustratin than a fussy eater in a collection.tips not opinions welcome now.cheers


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## DazedLewis (Aug 21, 2008)

covkev said:


> original post was asking for techniques others use for live feeding.i wish i was an armchair expert i wouldnt be asking for tips to start with.theres nothing more frustratin than a fussy eater in a collection.tips not opinions welcome now.cheers


wasnt aimed at you since I quoted '*dickvansheepcake's* comment, so was aimed at him.

I was 'defending' you.


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## covkev (Dec 29, 2008)

DazedLewis said:


> wasnt aimed at you since I quoted '*dickvansheepcake's* comment, so was aimed at him.
> 
> I was 'defending' you.


 ok no worries pm me with your methods if you dont want to post to every1 here.im only intrested in keepers who feed live preys method as stated.i can see opinions for a debate but im not interested to be honest


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## dickvansheepcake (Jul 8, 2009)

DazedLewis said:


> That is not always the case many royals will just starve to death if they are addicted to live food and offered dead rodents.
> 
> What is your history in snake keeping?
> 
> I have never fed live but you have 4 posts and just wondering if you are another one of these armchair experts who has never experienced fussy feeders...


I may be new to this forum but I am certainly not new to reptile keeping. I have quite a few years experience with snakes, lizards and many other reptiles. Working in a specialist reptile section in a vets I see many many cases of difficult feeders. I also own a couple of royals, among many other animals, that were fussy eaters but are now fighting fit and eating frozen rodents happily. I'm sorry I only have 4 posts but I spend a lot of my time getting hands on experience with many sorts of animals and reptiles and looking after my motley crew of now very healthy, happy rescues, not sitting at my computer on forums all the time.


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

dickvansheepcake said:


> I may be new to this forum but I am certainly not new to reptile keeping. I have quite a few years experience with snakes, lizards and many other reptiles. Working in a specialist reptile section in a vets I see many many cases of difficult feeders. I also own a couple of royals, among many other animals, that were fussy eaters but are now fighting fit and eating frozen rodents happily. I'm sorry I only have 4 posts but I spend a lot of my time getting hands on experience with many sorts of animals and reptiles and looking after my motley crew of now very healthy, happy rescues, not sitting at my computer on forums all the time.


It's always good to see new people on the forum, particularly those working in the industry. Can I ask what qualifications you hold and which vets you work at?


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## ex0tics (Jun 9, 2009)

dickvansheepcake said:


> i'm sure it is illegal. If not it should be. I know it happens in nature, but the way your doing it isn't exactly natural is it. Very cruel. If it went wrong and your snake gets injured then it's animal cruelty against your snake not only the poor mouse. All just to save a bit of cash. If you truly cared about your pets then you would be ready and willing to spend some money on them. If not then you should have thought about cash flow before getting pets.
> Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but I feel very strongly about animal welfare. Personally I put my animals ahead of anything else and will happily work extra shifts and miss nights out if they need or want for anything.


no, I don't think it is it's just highly frowned upon.

sorry for posting that on your thread mate, I only just read back and realised you only wanted tips.


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## Nihlus (Jul 15, 2009)

Its not illegal but I have heard of cases where the RSPCA have tried o prosecute people that feed live mice/rats to their Herps.


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## dickvansheepcake (Jul 8, 2009)

9Red said:


> It's always good to see new people on the forum, particularly those working in the industry. Can I ask what qualifications you hold and which vets you work at?


Hi, I have a national diploma in animal management and have been to many different animal work based experience programmes. I'm actually only 21 but caught the animal bug very early! I'v also attended a couple of specialist reptile keeping and management courses. and am lucky enough to have found myself working in a smallish privately run veterinary practice in Devon, although I will unfortunately be leaving it to move back to Wiltshire at the end of the month, well next week!


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