# New Beardy keeper!



## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Hi guys and gals!

I'm brand new to all of this!, so please be gentle and patient!

Basically here's my story etc.

I've just rescued to bearded dragons from a friend who was unable to look after them! (His mother got a big shock when she came home from holiday to find them in his room!) so he owned them for about 2 weeks roughly.. and no previous history as such (apart from one male and one female roughly 18months old)

So I've moved them all in and they are doing just great (or so i hope) basically they seem to be fine and happy!
The male Stitch - (or so i believe him to be male) has a stumpy tail.. bit missing and not sure as to why/how this happened was like it when i got them :gasp: And he seems to be slightly smaller and weighing less then the female, he also doesn't like being held much?! and I noticed today he got a black beard (but i've read that could be to do with the colours im wearing etc..)

The female Lilo - (again.. or so i believe to be female) is bigger in length and looks to be a generally stunning beardy! Got a nice lime colour to her! (Awesome - pics to follow), she's generally laid back.. doesn't seem to do too much! but eats more than the male? and has first say on what food she wants?

Now, this is the strange part, The male seems to be very hyper.. he likes to run up and down the glass banging his nose sometimes on it, bobbing his head very often! constantly clawing at the glass as if he wants to come out? as soon as the lights go off and i send them to sleep he's find and i dont hear from them until morning! he likes to just "flop" on Lilo constantly climbing on her etc etc even on the ground?

They are both healthy from what i know and can tell both holding their bellies up and both alert and eating and poo'ing well!

*Set up*

4ft long viv, 2ft wide 2ft high - from what i've read this is plenty? and as much as my space will allow for now! (until i move out in the new year) then they will have atleast a 6-7ft viv..

150W I believe Basking Lamp (may be 100W)

10% UVB UV light

And heat matt for at night but is well covered so they dont burn their bellies! 

Temp is about 90F in hot end but thats from a thermometer not a thermostat.
Don't have one for cool end yet.

Substrate is a wood chip as recomended by my local reptile shop! (Lucky to have a dedicated one about 200 metres from my home) but im looking to change to a sand.. as i hate the look of the wood chip stuff! and it's mega hard to spot clean!!

i've got two feed bowls in there for them! just to make sure they both have plenty of chance to eat!

Feeding silent crickets 3 times a week, first day of them today and they went absolutely ape!! haha they knew what they were before i even put them in the viv!

and one water bowl (which they seem to like getting filthy -_- )

*My questions*

Firstly, Is my viv big enough?

- Are they doing okay (I know its probs too early to tell just yet)
- Are there anything i can do to help make them happier/healthier?
- Is there anything i'm doing wrong?
- Which sand substrate should i get?
- Anything else I need to buy?
- Can someone please please please explain the Thermostat hub things? (the dimmer.. night and day etc etc)

- How can i sex them? to make sure they are male and female.
- Should i split them up?
- Anybody got a good cheap Big Vivarium for sale?  


That's about it for now!

If I can think of anything else I'll post it up! p.s any help anybody can give me would be absolutely amazing! 

Oh P.S it's pay day Friday.. so thermostats will be bought then along with new UVB as now sure when that went it.. and anything else i need 












*Lilo in front (Female) Stitch at the back (male)*











Viv as good as i could get a pic! - The Viv is a bit battered and dated but it's a good home for now  until i find one suitable!


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

DamienC said:


> Hi guys and gals!
> 
> I'm brand new to all of this!, so please be gentle and patient!
> 
> ...


Answers in red


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

@vGorst

Thanks for all your help!!  

I'm rather worried as i don't have the space to split them up??
So im wondering if it's best to maybe give one of them up? for their sake! i dont want to be selfish but i dont want them to fight etc either! however they do seem fine at the moment!:lol2:

Also The thermostat has been added after that photo and it's to the left hand side of the basking area (looking at it) so it's slightly lower than the full temp i presume!

Is it worth me changing the bulb then?

and it's the habistat sorry! 

I currently have 3 plugs!

One for my UVB, one for my heat lamp and one for my heat matt..

So i was wondering how i should set up my electrical side of things too?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Are you able to stack another viv on top of the existing one? Most people do it that way - a real space saver but there's also all the equipment to buy. 

At the end of the day it's up to you what you do, considering rehoming shows that you obviously care for their welfare  it's a shame that your friend couldn't keep them but you're obviously trying to do what's best by them.

The thing about any animal is that they can seem fine one day and the next they can be fighting, anything and nothing can set it off. Also it's not just physical fighting that's the problem; in reptiles body language, eye contact, colour etc can be used to intimidate each other. This can really stress them out and cause ill health. If they aren't fighting then it buys you a bit of time until you can decide what to do. There's tonnes of threads about cohabiting beardies so have a look at these; housing males and females together continuously usually ends in the female becoming ill or injured and you ending up with a lot of eggs (or vet bills).

If you can get a picture of where the probe is that's best, then people can suggest if it needs a little tweak. I would leave the bulb until you can get digital thermometers so you know what action to take as the thermostat dial is useless when it comes to temperatures.

Electrical side of things, you can unplug the heat mat. It's not needed. That just leaves you with 2 plugs. If you have an extension cable you can put both the UV and the thermostat on a timer so they have a proper day/night cycle (and then you don't have to remember to do it).


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Sadly i'm not able to stack one upon another as that would be too high for my liking and i purely don't have the space to do it safely!

And to be quite honest i really do care for these guys!  i know you've all heard it before "yeah i love these things blah blah blah 6 months later.. oh i need to re-home them can anyone help" but I really do want to do what's best for them!

I mean i've read mixed reviews.. male and female etc etc! and to be honest i'm not sure! haha I'd rather keep them both as they are awesome together by the looks of things! but like you say it only takes one thing and they could go nuts at each other! I think i may possibly speak to my local reptile shop, and ask if it's an option to maybe give one up to them if they do start to fight! IF IF IF!! *I can't find another option! that is a mega mega last resort!!!*

I would honestly like to breed them!! would be cool to see what colours I get out of these guys 

In other news!

I've decided im going to try them on Cali Sand! (don't hate me! haha) I really like the reviews for it! at the end of the day, if it was bad for them they wouldn't sell it!, and then that way it stops the feed/water bowls getting messy every time i change them etc.

And i've got the heat matt just as a precaution as my house gets cold during the night! and with them being along an external wall it's generally colder that side of the room anyways! 

And can you explain the Habistat please? there are so many different variations/sizes/wattage etc etc! it's all very very confusing stuff!! I just want to know what one i need for a my Heat bulb and UVB.. ha!

And whats the best way to enusre a correct cycle? I leave the lights on for 12 hours wake up at 10am first thing i do is sort Lilo and Stitch , then go to work (late starts!) get home have a little look make sure they are all fine then turn them off at 10pm, put a blanket over the glass to stop any light getting into them to stress them while sleeping etc!

Also I'm purchasing 2 digital thermometers on friday! (one for hot end, one for cold end is that correct?)

And as far as the eggs go thats not a problem, my local reptile shop have already said they will incubate them for me !

Thanks again!


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

People would much rather have these animals rehomed than risk them being hurt/mistreated (not saying that you will but some people lose interest then fail to care for them).

Once you have that 6-7ft viv that would be a much better size for housing 2 beardies than one 4ft. If you choose not to rehome then make sure you have the back up plan that can take them in at short notice.

Read other threads about breeding. With beardies you will make a loss and there are so many unwanted ones already, adding to the numbers isn't a great idea.

Not sure what reviews you've been reading  again look at threads about it on here. There was a very recent one in the lizard section and a couple of well respected breeders said that they'd only use it for certain species of gecko. At the end of the day, a lot of the manufacturers are in it for the money (hence it's so expensive) not necessarily because they have a passion for the animals. I found calci-sand very messy. Stains the animals and if it gets damp it forms solid clumps and is quite dusty (not good for respiratory systems). Your call but have a look at negative reviews too.

You don't need a thermostat for UVB, you'll need a dimming one for the heat bulb. Watt wise you just need a thermostat with wattage that's more or the same as the watt bulb you're using. I forgot to ask what kind of UVB you using? Is it a coil or tube?

If you're good with timings then just keep with what you're doing. For forgetful people like me we use timers.

What is the reptile shop that you're near?


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Right you are!

Just waiting for the viv really! and pay day! ha it can not come any sooner!

So the habistat.. what is it? because people have them for their matts etc etc is that right? I'm so confused it's way to late/early in the morning! ha

And im using a tube! and i think it's a 150W heat bulb! but again im not sure what % the UVB is, another reason why i would like to just purchase another to make sure i know its good and proper!

And well what could you suggest? i really like the look of sand.. looks nicer in my opinion! seems easier for the beardies to move around on and hunt their live feed etc! 


After writing the about about the habistat.. i think i've answered my own question but to be sure.. that's just a way for me to control how hot the heat bulb gets? -_- damn i'm tired..

And them obviously 2 digi thermometers for either end! 

the timers, are they the ones that just plug into the extension lead with the "dial" around it?

and its called Two by Two


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Habistat is just a brand of thermostat (Microclimate is another) - it's used to keep temperatures stable in the tank so it doesn't get too hot or too cold, you can get ones designed to use for mats, lights and ceramics. Dimming thermostat is best for lights as on/off thermostats will kill your bulb (and are plain annoying switching it on and off!). You can also get pulse (mostly for ceramics) and mat stats (for heat mats).

A lot of people use play sand - it's cheaper and doesn't encourage your animals to eat it like calci-sand does. You just give it a rinse, let it dry then pop it in. There are other substrates too, some use slate, lino and I've seen people use excavator clay.

Yep those are timers, just set it to the times you want and it'll do it all for you.

Never heard of that one. Not saying they're wrong but don't just go with the advice of one pet shop, have a search around and ask other people as husbandry differs between keepers.


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Right so just to clear it up with regards to the habistat.

For my set up i need a dimming one? But i turn all lights off at night, can i still do this with the dimming one?

And i'll take a look at the play sand! I've been told i can get it at Toys 'r us? is that right? 

and this morning i've moved the mirror that was opposite the viv and Stitch seems to have stopped running the glass, although now he's decided to mount lilo and ride her around the viv as well as what seems to be almost nipping her occasionally?? I'm getting rather concerned now??    

May have to invest in the timers!

and okie dokie! I'll ask around!

once again thanks for all your help vgorst!


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

No problem 

Dimming stat is better if you're using a normal light emitting bulb (just dims the light when the right temperatures are reached then fires up the bulb again when the temperatures get low). You can still use timers etc with thermostats, it'll just switch the thermostat and lights on at the time you want. You can use the day/night ones but I've never used one so can't help with that!

Yeah you can get the sand from toys'r'us.

Sounds like he could see his reflection and wanted to pick a fight, they're not so smart  that kind of behaviour towards Lilo could be dominance or mating behaviour. Now that he's not trying to pick a fight with himself he may be directing it towards her. Whereabouts is he nipping her?


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Brilliant!!, thank you 

And well thats now all changed again! I don't think he's too happy! i've just go in from work and he's got a jet black beard and is even black on his back.. so i don't think he likes me very much!

He's been "nipping" her on her head and beard/neck area

thanks


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

DamienC said:


> Brilliant!!, thank you
> 
> And well thats now all changed again! I don't think he's too happy! i've just go in from work and he's got a jet black beard and is even black on his back.. so i don't think he likes me very much!
> 
> ...


As said that's most definitely breeding behaviour. Either they will mate and you'll have more work and worries on your hands or the female will be against the idea and will be constantly stressed and they could end up fighting. So you'll possibly have eggs and a comstantly harassed and depleted female or worse. Really they need splitting up ASAP, may be best to give on up if you haven't the space to split as you're already considering. :2thumb:


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here!!

I don't want to give them up what so ever!! but of course I want what is best for them! And I'd also like to see if I could get a clutch of eggs from lilo and see what comes from that!

But after that i think i may split them?

Does anybody have any pictures as to what the eggs will look like etc?

Thanks


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

There are some photos in the breeding section.

If you are going to split them up do it before she has the eggs. If she's with the male when trying to lay she may get so stressed that she'll retain them, then there's the possibility of her becoming egg bound or scepticaemic.


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Right! i fully understand! maybe it's time to swallow my pride!  

Will there be people on here that would be willing to re-home him?? as I don't really want him moving again after me... he's been through enough! and I want to make sure he is really looked after!!


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it's up to you but personally I really wouldn't recommend breeding. If you haven't the space for a second viv to split them up then you definitely won't have space to house the babies, your talking 5 babies per 4x2x2 viv and easily 25 babies plus per clutch, maybe more. Of course you don't have to incubate all the eggs but your still talking at least one other viv. Your priority should really be on separating them before you even consider breeding, one thing at a time, don't attempt to run before you can walk and all that jazz! Keeping a pair together constantly in a situation like yours will not end well. Even experienced keepers can struggle when attempting to cohabit beardies. Some can work in the correct situation (female pairs) with the right setup but yours clearly aren't and keeping them like this will only end badly. Sorry to be blunt but its the honest most likely conclusion.


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to see you agree! Try putting up an advert in the classifies rehoming section, I'm sure you'll get some interest if people are near you, just be sure to check them out so you know he'll have a happy life. You've decided to keep the female then!?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

As Tom said, there's a rehoming section - put a small fee on as some people will just look for a freebie then sell on. Also checking their previous posts isn't such a bad idea, then you'll be able to differentiate between the people who care and know about the animals and one who kills everything within a year.

Cohabiting is a lot more difficult then people make out, it's not your fault that it didn't work


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for all your help guys! It means a lot! I think it's safe to say we've hopefully Saved one beardy possibly 2 from being badly hurt!

Yeah Tom, i've decided to keep Lilo  she's nice and gentle! extremely tame! and perfect for me for the moment! where as Stitch is a bit angrier! and with me being a complete novice i don't have the skills required to train him to be the loving beardy he can be!

It sucks so bad! i don't want to split them what so ever!!


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

DamienC said:


> Thanks for all your help guys! It means a lot! I think it's safe to say we've hopefully Saved one beardy possibly 2 from being badly hurt!
> 
> Yeah Tom, i've decided to keep Lilo  she's nice and gentle! extremely tame! and perfect for me for the moment! where as Stitch is a bit angrier! and with me being a complete novice i don't have the skills required to train him to be the loving beardy he can be!
> 
> It sucks so bad! i don't want to split them what so ever!!


I've been in the same situation although I kind of knew they'd need splitting when I rehomed them but you're right it isn't nice. If it makes you feel any better I don't regret it in the slightest as I look at my boy now and he seems so healthy and happy. I also happened to meet the women I rehomed the female to today (which was a surprise!), the beardy is doing great so that's nice to hear.


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

tomcannon said:


> I've been in the same situation although I kind of knew they'd need splitting when I rehomed them but you're right it isn't nice. If it makes you feel any better I don't regret it in the slightest as I look at my boy now and he seems so healthy and happy. I also happened to meet the women I rehomed the female to today (which was a surprise!), the beardy is doing great so that's nice to hear.


It's not nice! seems as i've just moved them in my self! Like I said, this will be his final home now! i don't want him moved again it's not worth the stress!! 

Hopefully someone will love him as much as i do


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

You'll definitely need to split them up. You could cause the female a lot of damage if the male harasses her with continious mating, not to mention there's a risk of her being egg-bound. The world doesn't need anymore beardie babies right now, rescues and even shops are giving them away for free/ a few quid, because they're currently so overbred. Bearded Dragons are solitary animals, all keeping them together will achieve is two lizards fighting over food/the best basking spot, they don't have the ability to be "lonely" and will thrive on their own. If you can't afford the upkeep of two vivariums or the space, give one away to a good home. The tail could be one of two things, either an injury as a result of a fight (look up on youtube why Beardies shouldn't be kept together and there's some interesting, if not graphic, videos to explain how dangerous it can be) or perhaps even MBD. For ONE Beardie a 4x2x2 is the absolute bare minimum. I'd avoid sand and go for a substrate that isn't "loose", I use slate for mine and it's easy to keep clean and I don't have to worry about my girl swallowing something she shouldn't!


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

ChazzieJo said:


> You'll definitely need to split them up. You could cause the female a lot of damage if the male harasses her with continious mating, not to mention there's a risk of her being egg-bound. The world doesn't need anymore beardie babies right now, rescues and even shops are giving them away for free/ a few quid, because they're currently so overbred. Bearded Dragons are solitary animals, all keeping them together will achieve is two lizards fighting over food/the best basking spot, they don't have the ability to be "lonely" and will thrive on their own. If you can't afford the upkeep of two vivariums or the space, give one away to a good home. The tail could be one of two things, either an injury as a result of a fight (look up on youtube why Beardies shouldn't be kept together and there's some interesting, if not graphic, videos to explain how dangerous it can be) or perhaps even MBD. For ONE Beardie a 4x2x2 is the absolute bare minimum. I'd avoid sand and go for a substrate that isn't "loose", I use slate for mine and it's easy to keep clean and I don't have to worry about my girl swallowing something she shouldn't!


He's already put the male up for rehoming


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

ChazzieJo said:


> You'll definitely need to split them up. You could cause the female a lot of damage if the male harasses her with continious mating, not to mention there's a risk of her being egg-bound. The world doesn't need anymore beardie babies right now, rescues and even shops are giving them away for free/ a few quid, because they're currently so overbred. Bearded Dragons are solitary animals, all keeping them together will achieve is two lizards fighting over food/the best basking spot, they don't have the ability to be "lonely" and will thrive on their own. If you can't afford the upkeep of two vivariums or the space, give one away to a good home. The tail could be one of two things, either an injury as a result of a fight (look up on youtube why Beardies shouldn't be kept together and there's some interesting, if not graphic, videos to explain how dangerous it can be) or perhaps even MBD. For ONE Beardie a 4x2x2 is the absolute bare minimum. I'd avoid sand and go for a substrate that isn't "loose", I use slate for mine and it's easy to keep clean and I don't have to worry about my girl swallowing something she shouldn't!


Already up for re-homing! Most difficult thing to do! let alone even think about doing it! 

I've had a lot of interest but no confirms from anybody just yet! So still waiting!, and on Friday i may be able to send him to his new home with a new Viv!


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

That's good news.
:2thumb:

It's always difficult, so I hope you find the right home for him.


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## DamienC (Nov 19, 2012)

Good news!! Stitch has finally been re-homed  to a loving new couple!  they fell in love with him just as much as i did when i first saw him!

I'm constantly being updated with how well he is doing! More info to follow!


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