# PLEASE READ: Infected Plugs and Hemipene Necrosis



## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Unfortunatly I have recently lost one of my Leopard Geckos to a very fast acting illness. 

If you have read the latest Practical Reptile keeping mag, you will see an article on breeding issues. One section describes infected plugs and Hemipene Necrosis where the male reproducted organs are infected by particles caught in the cloaca or from plugs blocking the tissue with in and causing an infection. 
I saw this article today, a few days after loosing my loved Leo in this way. I knew almost nothing of this sort of problem apart from loose substrate can cause it... but mine was on lino so I didnt even think. 

Pheonix, who was a 2009-hatched Normal male, was always very healthy and ate like a horse. He was kept on Lino and recieved the best husbandry possible in my care. He had always had larger bulges where his Hemipene were compared to his brother so I assumed that’s how he was since they both were very different in everyway and everything about this guy was chunky. 

Then all of a sudden I noticed a sudden loss of weight on his tail alone (with in a few days) and then I noticed one side bulging. I tried soaking him, etc assuming it was either a problem with defacating or a miss orientaion of one of his penis. With in 3 days he was stick thin and his bulg was huge, purple and weeping fluid, blood and puss! Sadly, the only day I could get him to the vets was the very morning he passed away. 

Now I would highly recomend reading this article in PRK as it pretty much stated what happened to mine, as well as telling you how to check, deal with plugs and wether to go to a vet or not. It informs readers that the Cloaca can be checked and any plugs can be removed gently with tweesers, making sure not to pull on plugs that appear to be stuck, as this will damage the tissue it is attached. This is the time for an apointment with the vet just to clear it out before infection occurs. 

If I had this article in my hands only about a week ago im sure Pheonix would have been in the vets long before any swelling showed up as I was always wondering why his cloaca was that bit larger. Sadly this is a mistake I made and have to deal with but my only hope is to educate people that this must of been happening for months with out my knowledge. The plugs can sit on the tissue with minimal problems but eventually build up enough to cause this deverstaing infection, which can be quickly resolved by antibiotics... sadly I was too late. 

I hope this helps anyone in the future, and help you lizard keepers keep an eye on your males, as this may be more common than we think. The last thing I would ever want is to hear this happen to anyone on here, so I thought I would let you know how important it is to check them now and again or at least get to the vet in time. 

Thanks for reading and Rest in peace my little chunk, Pheonix.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I am sorry to hear about Pheonix - poor little fella - you must be gutted. Unfortunately this can be difficult to spot until it gets to a quite serious state and there was not a lot you could do unfortunately. It is just one of those things I'm afraid. It is good of you to share this with other ppl so that hopefully other Leos (and other lizards) can be treated in time. Reps are very good at masking any illness so fore-warned is fore-armed. This is the reason that I (and others) shout "VETS" at posters with sick animals so often - even if it turns out to be nothing serious.


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## ReptileLady (Feb 4, 2010)

So sorry to hear about your loss, but well done for bringing this to the attention of others. Unfortunately as Jools said, reptiles are very good at hiding serious illness and when we spot them it is often just too late.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2010)

So sorry to hear of your loss and a thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention :grouphug:


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

jools said:


> I am sorry to hear about Pheonix - poor little fella - you must be gutted. Unfortunately this can be difficult to spot until it gets to a quite serious state and there was not a lot you could do unfortunately. It is just one of those things I'm afraid. It is good of you to share this with other ppl so that hopefully other Leos (and other lizards) can be treated in time. Reps are very good at masking any illness so fore-warned is fore-armed. This is the reason that I (and others) shout "VETS" at posters with sick animals so often - even if it turns out to be nothing serious.


sorry to hear the news and ditto as Jools has said


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## ..:: F1D0 ::.. (May 13, 2009)

Sorry for your loss. You mentioned breeding, does this only occur in breedng or can it happen to any? I have not got my PRK yet so can't read the article.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

jools said:


> I am sorry to hear about Pheonix - poor little fella - you must be gutted. Unfortunately this can be difficult to spot until it gets to a quite serious state and there was not a lot you could do unfortunately. It is just one of those things I'm afraid. It is good of you to share this with other ppl so that hopefully other Leos (and other lizards) can be treated in time. Reps are very good at masking any illness so fore-warned is fore-armed. This is the reason that I (and others) shout "VETS" at posters with sick animals so often - even if it turns out to be nothing serious.





ReptileLady said:


> So sorry to hear about your loss, but well done for bringing this to the attention of others. Unfortunately as Jools said, reptiles are very good at hiding serious illness and when we spot them it is often just too late.





SleepyD said:


> sorry to hear the news and ditto as Jools has said


Yes I agree, hence why its something that should be checked. Not so much with leos, since they are too small and fiddly to check easily. 
The larger species are capable of suffering with the sample problem just as easy so checking is important.
What I should of noticed months ago was his enlarged cloata, which I just assumed was him being a chunky male. 
So I am kicking my self for not chasing this up, and the article being earlier would of got me thinking about it and going to the vet then and there. 



..:: F1D0 ::.. said:


> Sorry for your loss. You mentioned breeding, does this only occur in breedng or can it happen to any? I have not got my PRK yet so can't read the article.


This male has NEVER been bred, it can happen to all males or all species regardless if they mate or not.
Although I gather Pheonix got his infection from plugs, many cases form from particles of substrate or such entering the cloata at some point. 
This can happen either by chance, by mating or the flexing of the cloata when going to the loo. 



Crestie Chris said:


> So sorry to hear of your loss and a thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention :grouphug:


Thank you for you kind comments everyone. They mean alot to me and I would hate to hear anyones animals suffer with this problem. 
It was truely heart breaking to watch such a strong and fit animal go down so fast
I didnt reconise him in his last few days. 
Sadly I bet this is more common than people think, and I just hope people heed my advice.
If in doubt at all get to the vets, its so much safer. 

Thanks everyone :grouphug:


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## sender (Jan 19, 2009)

jordan i am so sorry to hear about Pheonix, and send hugs from over here!

its so difficult with geckos to see that they are ill unless you pick up on the tiniest little things 

all my best sweets and RIP little one

xx


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## Gemstone Dragons (Jul 29, 2009)

Thinking of you and thanks :gasp::notworthy:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

sender said:


> jordan i am so sorry to hear about Pheonix, and send hugs from over here!
> 
> its so difficult with geckos to see that they are ill unless you pick up on the tiniest little things
> 
> ...


Thank you Jo,
At least I have learnt something that I can pass on. 
He will be missed ever so dearly. 
My neice is going to be heart broken just as bad as me as she loved this leo. Since he was a big sweet and calm normal and was the only one she wasnt scared of and loved his big eyes. 

Here he is.









One strange thing I have noticed was the brother who has always been smaller built has suddenly bulked out as well his head and tail have gone huge since Pheonix died. They lived in a split glass tank but neither worried about the other and always ate like horses. Saffron is starting to look just like a white Pheonix... very strange, maybe a hormone thing?
It probably doesnt help the girls have moved into Pheonix's old side once I disinfected it.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Gemstone Dragons said:


> Thinking of you and thanks :gasp::notworthy:


Thank you very much


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

After posting this on a another forum I have received many responses from owners saying many of their animals have suffered the same fate but had no idea at the time and even now as to what was going on. 

I cant imagine how many other people are loosing animals to such a simple form of infection, but have no idea what is actually going on, how to reduce the chances of it as well as any tell tale signs. 

So if you don't mind I am "bumping" this thread up for those who have not read this yet.

Thanks
Jordan


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

JustJordan said:


> After posting this on a another forum I have received many responses from owners saying many of their animals have suffered the same fate but had no idea at the time and even now as to what was going on.
> 
> I cant imagine how many other people are loosing animals to such a simple form of infection, but have no idea what is actually going on, how to reduce the chances of it as well as any tell tale signs.
> 
> ...


Rated 5* to get some more views : victory:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Crestie Chris said:


> Rated 5* to get some more views : victory:


Thanks Chris, means a lot! :2thumb:
I've recieved a good few PMs and things on various sites about this post.
Its very interesting to hear peoples experiences with this, and the comments are very humbling. 
Thank you everyone


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

I think this should be made a sticky to give chance for more readers!
am now going to search google to find out how to avoid this happening


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

found some old pics I'd got saved showing before and after with hemipenal plugs and infection (not one of mine fortunately) ~

before









half done

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










one of the plugs


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

sorry to hear about you leo

dam right poor things and i agree it should be a sticky because if it is as common as you think then it could save a great deal of pain and suffering to the owner and the rep its just a shame that the article hadnt been in last months issue. but since you have posted about it its always something to be very aware of.

just wondering though does this only happen to males or are females known to get it aswell?


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

SleepyD said:


> found some old pics I'd got saved showing before and after with hemipenal plugs and infection (not one of mine fortunately) ~
> 
> before
> image
> ...



Thanks for the pictures,I am struggling to find much about this on google and we need to know about these things and how to avoid IMO


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

SleepyD said:


> found some old pics I'd got saved showing before and after with hemipenal plugs and infection (not one of mine fortunately) ~
> 
> before
> image
> ...


Thank you very much Sleepy, It would be great to get those pics added to the actual post! 
This is what happened but sadly i knew very little about it and didn't go looking for the plug or try to remove it as I had no idea it was a plug so just booked him into the vets... sadly the appointment wasn't soon enough. 

Infections in the Cloaca can happen to both sexes, females more from dirt, loose substrate etc.. but more so with males.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

cheers for that like i said its just for my wee room of knowledge in my head.fingers crossed wee dont see anyone elses geckos like this in the future


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> cheers for that like i said its just for my wee room of knowledge in my head.fingers crossed wee dont see anyone elses geckos like this in the future


I hope so.. maybe this should a sticky as suggested, since I lost a leo thanks to the lack of info on this. 
Maybe someone could contact a mod or report the thread?
Thanks


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

lol i wouldnt know where to start with that lol but i should be a sticky because after all it is good information and people need to be aware that this can happen 
i for one never heard about this before and its certainly an eye opener and cant be ignored


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

RIP Phoenix. Thanks for bringing that to attention, I will keep an eye out for it!


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

kirky1980 said:


> lol i wouldnt know where to start with that lol but i should be a sticky because after all it is good information and people need to be aware that this can happen
> i for one never heard about this before and its certainly an eye opener and cant be ignored


after searching Google there is not a lot of info out there i can find



reptile_man_08 said:


> RIP Phoenix. Thanks for bringing that to attention, I will keep an eye out for it!


Its not just Leo,s that this can affect so we all need to keep a look out including snake owners.
Would it be possible to link to the actual report in the magazine as i dont subscribe and its not available in many places around here Thanks in anticipation.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

One of my leos has just got exactly the same thing. I cleaned him out Saturday and he was fine. He was with a female for a week earlier this year but was then put back in his own viv and has been housed alone ever since. He is kept on kitchen roll and I keep my leos really nice n clean. By this morning he had a huge red swelling - it literally appeared overnight. I have bathed him in warm salt water a couple of times today and he will be going to the vet first thing tomorrow. Hes not lost any weight yet.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> One of my leos has just got exactly the same thing. I cleaned him out Saturday and he was fine. He was with a female for a week earlier this year but was then put back in his own viv and has been housed alone ever since. He is kept on kitchen roll and I keep my leos really nice n clean. By this morning he had a huge red swelling - it literally appeared overnight. I have bathed him in warm salt water a couple of times today and he will be going to the vet first thing tomorrow. Hes not lost any weight yet.


Its awful isnt it! Mine was always on Lino which was spotless.
I think that could be plugs or a bad angle on his hemipene either way with the same effect. 
Best of luck hun and I hope all the best for him. Its a good thing you could get an appointment, as mine lost all his weight and passed away in 4 days. 

I am sending all my love. 
xxxx

Just trying to get my OH to buy me a little baby albino in a local petshop now to make me feel better :blush: Its not working though.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a little baby 'bino for sale:whistling2:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Aww thanks Jordan. I will update tomorrow after I have been to the vets. I will phone and ask for an emergency appt in the morning - I haven't rung today cos its Sunday and they are shut but they have never refused to give me an emergency appt before now - I have even been after hours. If my usual vets won't see him, I will take him somewhere else until I find someone who will see him.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> Aww thanks Jordan. I will update tomorrow after I have been to the vets. I will phone and ask for an emergency appt in the morning - I haven't rung today cos its Sunday and they are shut but they have never refused to give me an emergency appt before now - I have even been after hours. If my usual vets won't see him, I will take him somewhere else until I find someone who will see him.


aww fair play. Mine started on a friday so i had the weekend on my back as well as bank holiday  
best of luck.


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

nuttybabez said:


> Aww thanks Jordan. I will update tomorrow after I have been to the vets. I will phone and ask for an emergency appt in the morning - I haven't rung today cos its Sunday and they are shut but they have never refused to give me an emergency appt before now - I have even been after hours. If my usual vets won't see him, I will take him somewhere else until I find someone who will see him.


any news???


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Yup, he has been to vets and I have got some antibiotics for him. He said continue with the salt baths and keep an eye on the swelling in case it bursts out through the side uke: Hopefully he will be ok!


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Aww poor little thing, Well I send him all my love 
xxx


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

Hope everything turns out right for the little ,un


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks, heres a piccy of the poor chap.











I bet theres a few blokes wincing now!! I can't believe how quickly this happened - he had been fine a couple of hours previously! Scary! But hopefully the salt baths and antibiotics will help him and he'll recover soon. I am giving him reptoboost aswell to help him.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> Thanks, heres a piccy of the poor chap.
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Its almost Identical to my poor Pheonix, it was the even the same side.
Well Antibiotics seems the trick anyway.
Best of luck with him xxx


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks hun! And *hugs* for you - am sorry you lost your lad but am very grateful you posted this thread so I knew as soon as I saw my boys swelling what it was and could act on it immediately.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Update on my lad - the abscess has now broken through the skin and looks like this -


















He is still having daily salt baths and antibiotics plus I am putting tamodine on his wound.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> Update on my lad - the abscess has now broken through the skin and looks like this -
> 
> image
> image
> ...


ouch! that is one hell of an abscess :shock:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

thats enough to bring a tear to a glass eye i hope your wee fella gets sorted quick enough it dosnt look nice at all poor wee thing

sticky this

its helped 1 person already and will help loads more


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Wow that looks awful. Truth be told my lads was a little better than that when it got to much for him. It seems the help you are offering him is keeping him well enough, just this is being a problem.
Has the vets considered opening it up and cleaning it all out yet?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

SleepyD - yukky isn't it?! Poor lad!

Jordan - the vet said that cleaning it out may cause him more damage and he would prefer to see if it will heal "naturally" with help from the salt baths and antibiotics first. The swelling is softer than it was which is a good sign and I can now open his vent a little further but I can't see anything in there and to force it would cause damage as the vet says.

The vet originally said that it may burst out of the side as the swelling was purple on that side. He told me to keep giving the antibiotics, keep going with the salt baths and put tamodine on it every day. He really seems to enjoy the salt baths - I think they must be soothing for him. Hes not so keen on the tamodine lol! He is still eating/pooing and passing urates normally so I am not too concerned, I am keeping an eye on his weight and hes lost 2g so far which is not too bad given that hes 93g. I am also still giving him the reptoboost to stop him from becoming dehydrated and hes acting like his normal self.

If it gets any messier I will take him back to the vets - I phoned them when the abscess broke out and he said keep going unless it goes nasty yellow or the gecko seems ill.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

thats good news, 
he must feel better now that its burst and the preassure has been released, hopefully if its all softening it`ll start to go down soon.
i`m amazed at how good he`s been through all this.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks pigglywiggly. Yes hes a good boy. He squarks a lot but then he did that anyway lol! Hes not bitten me which is very good of him cos it must hurt although I do try not to hurt him while I am treating it. I'm really pleased its reacting to the antibiotics as I really wouldn't want to lose him like poor Jordan did.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

I am please hes doing well then. Its a shame mine went down hill so quick. 
Best of luck Nuttybabes! Lots of hugs and kisses for him from me xx


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## puggy69 (Apr 15, 2010)

my leo had the same problem, i gave him baths in a diluted liquid meant to cure fin rot, it had alot of natural cleansers in it, tea tre oil etc. I can find out the exact name if your interested, but it worked a treat. The vet told me to put him down, my mate recomended this. 10 days later he was back to normal. 

some giveaway signs were the bulges before his tail, and a crust over his vent. Its an area that you really need to keep an eye on, i now check mine daily. 

feel free to pm me if you have a leo with this problem just now and il talk you threw it


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

puggy, I would guess that if your male was bathed in an aquatic treatment and was fine within 10 days then he did not have an abscess!! 

My lad has been on antibiotics and having salt baths for 10 days now, Jordan lost her male within 3 days, please be careful what advice you give as infection can kill a leo if not treated correctly with antibiotics from the vet.


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

Just found this thread and am very glad the article was of use to people - I lost a gecko several years ago to an infected hemipene so it's good to be able to help raise awareness of this issue which often unfortunately goes undiagnosed unless keepers are aware of and able to check for the symptoms early on. : victory:


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## puggy69 (Apr 15, 2010)

nuttybabez said:


> puggy, I would guess that if your male was bathed in an aquatic treatment and was fine within 10 days then he did not have an abscess!!
> 
> My lad has been on antibiotics and having salt baths for 10 days now, Jordan lost her male within 3 days, please be careful what advice you give as infection can kill a leo if not treated correctly with antibiotics from the vet.


 
eh never said it was an abscess!!

it was an infection and it was treated with diluted metaflex, but hey il just keep my mouth shut, as you know everything already. The start of the thread doesnt sound like an abscess, i was answering that question not yours!!! forums are meant to be for discussions but il let you just take over now :censor:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

puggy69 said:


> eh never said it was an abscess!!
> 
> it was an infection and it was treated with diluted metaflex, but hey il just keep my mouth shut, as you know everything already. The start of the thread doesnt sound like an abscess, i was answering that question not yours!!! forums are meant to be for discussions but il let you just take over now :censor:


Actually I wasn't asking a question. I know what to do and that is to consult a vet. 
After my issue I have done a fair amount of research, it appears that Nuttybabez's leo is holding on thanks to the vets help in giving antibiotics. It appears mine didn't make it as far as Nuttybabez's as septicaemia from the infection was building up way before the lump was noticeable and that alone can kill a leo in a day or two. The Antibiotics can prevent this while treating the infection alone side as well as with the antibiotics.


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## puggy69 (Apr 15, 2010)

some folk on here really do my nut in, just forget i ever opened my mouth. 

simple point i was making is that if a vet ever told you to put it down because of the infection and swelling i could mabe help with an alternative.

dont see what youve got to lose if the vet recomends putting it down really?? not really interested in this thread anymore, getting boring and pretty annoying. the point of a forum is for advice and help, not the obvious answer of "take it to the vets" i thought that was obvious??

if your rep isnt well you take it to the vets, i know that, everyone should know that. But god forbid someone should come on here with an alternative to putting your leo down. how dare they!!


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

puggy69 said:


> some folk on here really do my nut in, just forget i ever opened my mouth.
> 
> simple point i was making is that if a vet ever told you to put it down because of the infection and swelling i could mabe help with an alternative.
> 
> ...


As you say, the forums are for sharing experiences, advice and help, so if you have used an alternative treatment that you found to be sucessful then why not just share in on here as a point of discussion so people can discuss it with their vets? Because you decided to keep the nature and method of your treatment to PM there would be no way for people just casually browsing the thread to know what it entails, hence Nutty's and other's concern about being careful regarding what type of advice you choose to give out, especially to inexperienced keepers who may be tempted to use it as a cheap DIY alternative to proper veterinary care. 

If it is something as simple as bathing in a diluted antibacterial solution for dermal disease in fish then ok, but has the safety of using this method been evaluated by a vet? I'd be dubious about trying out something like this without first discussing it with an experienced reptile surgeon - after all, some aquatic treatments contain copper which could lead to toxicity and neurological damage if misused. Clearly this treatment worked for your gecko and that's brilliant, but wouldn't it be aweful if you gave out advice to someone whose vet had recommended euthanasia, who then tried the treatment themselves, found it didn't work and then possibly had to watch their gecko suffer a lingering death instead of a swift painless one? 

By all means, bring new ideas to the table, but don't be offended if people feel the need to question them if it is something new that needs to first be tested and it's safety confirmed 100% before it can be recommended as a possible treatment - this is in the interest of animal welfare after all, and we can't take chances with something so important. : victory:


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## puggy69 (Apr 15, 2010)

well and truely owned haha :blush:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Agree with 9Red. I am sorry you feel I have taken over the thread puggy - I am really pleased that the aquatic bath helped your leo but I think Jordan and I (and 9Red) are both concerned that an inexperienced leo owner would try your idea instead of taking their leo to the vet for antibiotics in order to save money and would then potentially lose their leo or cause un-neccessary suffering. I didn't mean for you to feel to pushed out, I just wanted to suggest caution - friends? :group hug:


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## puggy69 (Apr 15, 2010)

i just feel my point was well and truelly misunderstood but yeah :grouphug:


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

That's (was) my Stuart! He started the same, I always just thought he was a 'big boy' but one day his bulges were massive, hard and a bit weepy so we had a look and the ends of the plugs were visible so we eased them out. Think he was very grateful!




SleepyD said:


> found some old pics I'd got saved showing before and after with hemipenal plugs and infection (not one of mine fortunately) ~
> 
> before
> image
> ...


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

ok tonights update is particularly puke-worthy so if you are squeamish, look away now!!






I got my big lad out for his treatment tonight and noticed that his scab was bigger so I gently poked the lump and some yellowy fluid leaked out. That didn't seem to hurt him. So what did I do? I poked it a bit harder to see if I could get some more of the fluid out. And the abscess burst! 

I *think* the fluid came out of his vent but it happened so quickly that I didn't notice. All I know is that suddenly I was covered in a sticky yellow thick fluid - all over my face and its lucky I had my glasses on cos they got the brunt of it and it would have gone in my eyes otherwise. There was a lot of it and it shot out with some force! It was definately not faeces or urates and was a jelly-like consistency. I put him away quickly and had to get some help to wash it all off my face.

When I returned to him 10 minutes later, the abscess was hanging out of him - on the side where the scab was and where the vet said he thought it would burst out. The fluid must have released the pressure and the abscess had found its way out. A big yellow blob roughly the size of a chickpea came off him with little encouragement and hes now left with a big red gaping hole the poor bugger :-( It was a fairly solid rubber type consistency.

It looks like there is still some infected tissue inside the hole but its very painful for him so I haven't poked it tonight. I gave him a salt bath, put tamodine on his wound and gave him his antibiotics and reptoboost by syringe.

He has been such a good boy through all of his treatment and I think it must feel much better now that the abscess has gone. I am so thankful I saw it as soon as it appeared and got him to a vet - thank you again Jordan! I will keep treating him until it has healed and I will take him back to the vets next week to be checked over. I imagine it will scar but I am hoping that it won't stop him from mating in future. Only time will tell.

Some pics of his abscess and the hole it came out of -


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

:gasp: blooming heck! that is one large hole left... poor little mite.
Hope he starts recovering/healing better now that lump is out hun


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> ok tonights update is particularly puke-worthy so if you are squeamish, look away now!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor boy, it's good the abcess is out but I would see about getting him to a vet today if you can - that lesion may need to be packed and sutured. : victory:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Thanks! I have spoken to the vet and he wants to see him next week. The vet has said not to pack it or close it in any way cos it will need to heal from the inside out, otherwise the abscess will start again. The blob of yellow in the wound in the picture came out in tonights salt bath and its looking much healthier. He seems more comfortable aswell - was stomping round re-arranging his viv furniture tonight!


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

I send you all my love and luck with him, it looks awful.

You wont believe it and i don't know if its paranoia now but my other males one side looks a tiny bit enlarged. It may because I have never checked him. I am soaking him in salt water every other night just incase, although he's in the best health he's ever been. I'm assuming it may husbandry now so im double checking everything and changing his enclosure slightly for 100% spotlessness (if thats a word) but if i see a mm change in his bulges, appetite, weight and behaviour he's down the vets with me. Fortunately I now work as a student veterinary nurse so i should be able to take him with me. I just hope to god this isn't the case.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

nuttybabez`s boy is kept on kichen roll and kept very clean and his house is disinfected regularly, so its definatly not a husbandry issue.
and his abcess came up in a matter of hours, scarily fast.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> nuttybabez`s boy is kept on kichen roll and kept very clean and his house is disinfected regularly, so its definatly not a husbandry issue.
> and his abcess came up in a matter of hours, scarily fast.


Yes this is what I truly believe but for 2 of mine to appear to have the same issue around the same time is a concern for me. 
Maybe I am being paranoid or I am incredibly unlucky. 
I do truly hope I am just being paranoid. 

Also Sarah I may be coming up your way anyway in the future so hold on to the little girly for me :lol2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

no worries, will do.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Jordan - I would say that its quite possible that you are being paranoid but its better safe than sorry. Hopefully he is fine and you are worrying over nothing. 

And yes, pigglywiggly and I had him out to clean his box and he was fine. 3 hours later when I got him out to show tonkaz, the swelling was there! I couldn't believe how fast it appeared!! Scary!


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

He has been to the vet again today and he says to continue with the salt baths and tamodine but stop the antibiotics and keep an eye on him. If it gets swollen or looks yukky, hes got to go back to the vets again. I think its healing up nicely and the vet agrees 

Updated pics taken today so you can see how he is healing -


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

looks like it's starting to heal/close nicely hun ... fingers crossed for a full recovery : victory:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

I dont belive it!
My other male has developed the same thing.
It began getting slightly bigger yesterday so Im trying to book him in for tomorrow but yet again the same reptile vet is being very awkward.
He has only just stopped feeding, and pooped the night before last. 
Its swollen but only just starting to look brusied. 
What are the chances that two of my males actually develop the same thing?
I never kept them on loose substrate, their vivs are spotless and no reason for impaction what so ever. 
My OH pointed out that it may be a genetic thing as they are the only clutchmates who made it last year. Both has eye shedding problems that led to infections earlier on in the year, so could this be another thing they share?

I am very distrought now, and since I just left uni to study veterinary Nursing I have no income what so ever, so I am relying on my poor partner to pay up for him which he is not happy about. I just truely hope I can get him in, in the afternoon. I cant loose another one


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

oh dam dude thats not good i hope you dont have to go through that again fingers crossed for the wee fella : victory:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> oh dam dude thats not good i hope you dont have to go through that again fingers crossed for the wee fella : victory:


Thanks, I would have him in the emergencey service that the vets work with today but the vet that works with reps is not part of that company, only the company that works normal hours. I cant even book for tomorrow. Ill ring them as soon as they open and tell them it is an emergency, hopefully this will get the desired effect.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

it was strange to i was just thinking about nuttys wee one this morning but couldnt find the thread to find out what happened then you pop up with it again iv been lucky so far and never had any probs but i always check her vent these days now


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

ooh bugger, thats not good! Its the first time I have come across it so I don't think its very common. My lad has all healed up now, I must get another pic.

I wouldn't have thought it would be genetic tho. Do you have any females he can smell? I have females and males in the same rack so I spose it could be related to that?

Stick him in a warm salt bath tonight hun and vets tomorrow. *hugs*


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> ooh bugger, thats not good! Its the first time I have come across it so I don't think its very common. My lad has all healed up now, I must get another pic.
> 
> I wouldn't have thought it would be genetic tho. Do you have any females he can smell? I have females and males in the same rack so I spose it could be related to that?
> 
> Stick him in a warm salt bath tonight hun and vets tomorrow. *hugs*


Well yes now, nut the two males were the opposite end of the room until the one passed away. Maybe a build of of sperm as they can get excited? I dont know :/
I popped him in a salt bath but he just insisted on dunking his head. This behaviour worried me but I held his head up and gave him a few mins in there.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Ab dunked his head once or twice but just in and straight out. Is he just dunking or leaving his head underwater?


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> Ab dunked his head once or twice but just in and straight out. Is he just dunking or leaving his head underwater?


Both :gasp:
He ingested a bit and coughed a load back up after.
I ensured he was given fresh water immediately after and will not allow him to do that again.
He had never done that before sadly.


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Silly gecko!! I hope hes ok, keep us updated!


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## Emma30 (Apr 18, 2008)

Orr i really hope he's ok Jordan good luck with everything and sorry for your loss of phoenix.

And this is defo a really useful and informative thread, ive never heard of this infection before now, and will defo be checking my males in that area everyday, Thanks Jordan :notworthy: 

Well done Nuttybabez you did a really good job on getting your little man back on track : victory:


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Hi just got back from vets. 
We had a good look with light behind him and he could also see sperm plugs as he prodded. 
The poor thing is bruised from it but we know what it is now at least.
Like a said was 99.9% sure it was sperm plugs anyway.

He told us to fresh water bath him twice a day for 10mins to loosen the plugs and metacam to try and get him more comfortable to feed as well as reduce swelling. 

I have to go back next week if hes the same and thinks maybe gentle removal of the plug using forceps while under GA. 

Popped him in the bath just now for 10 mins and he seemed to enjoy it, now given him first medication so I hope he feels better. 
The vet said he cant see an infection in there, and I agree as it didn't look so I anywhere near as red, yellow or purple like his brothers I feel he has a much better chance the poor thing.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

So far so good. 
He's still not feeding but when moved he seem a bit happier to move.

His swelling isn't much better but I'm sure the non affected side is smaller.
I can even see tiny wrinkles in his bulges to I'm guessing that is due previously stretched skin.
It also feels a little softer, so hopefully the baths are softening it all nicely.

My only concerns are:-

That the bruising from being prodded is very red and bled a tiny bit over the entrance of the cloaca. This wouldn't of happened if it was as swollen in my opinion so maybe a good sign. 

He has only lost 2g to 4g over the weekend and two days, but his tail looks a lot smaller, so I am paranoid about this at the moment. 
He is still not eating but I just ordered some critical care so he can lick up from a syringe or I can pop into his mouth if I'm lucky. 


Hope all goes well though :|


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Sounds like good news! My lad really enjoyed his salt baths aswell - he would prop his head in a corner, spread his legs, close his eyes and look blissed out - I think it must be soothing for them. 

Good Luck, keep us updated!


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

nuttybabez said:


> Sounds like good news! My lad really enjoyed his salt baths aswell - he would prop his head in a corner, spread his legs, close his eyes and look blissed out - I think it must be soothing for them.
> 
> Good Luck, keep us updated!


I was told not to add salt, maybe as its not an open wound?
Yeh he sits there head up, legs spread and eyes closed for the full 10 mins bless him. 
It appears its working so far and its only been just over 24hrs : victory:


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Aww, yeah thats exactly what mine did. They must enjoy it. And nope if you have been told not to use salt then thats fair enough - mine had an infection and your lad doesn't so thats probably the difference ;-)


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Just got back from the vets again. My vet wasnt there but the one hes with now is great.
She couldnt believe how huge the swelling was, biggest she has ever seen..
Then you shold of seen her face when I said thats half the size they were!

Well the undate is as follows.
Last night I hearded him pass fluids, some squidy yellow poo and maybe some of the infection and plug. Horrific.

Weighed him and hed lost nearly 10g in a week even though he has a ml most nights of carnivor or critical care. 

He was already booked in for today anyway thanks god.
She squeezed out the biggest sides plug and I couldnt believe the size on it!!!
I nearly fainted at the sight of it.. and thats not like me at all :blush:
Nearly 3cm long, and 1cm wide.. like a really thick, sharp corn flake.

He was bleeding a bit but that one side is 3 times smaller. 
They are keeping him in until this afternoon to try and get the other side clear as ll as cleaning him out with hibiscrub. 

Hopefully this will be it, and although the vet said I doubt the hemipenes will be salvaged, at least he is alive and well. 

Wish me luck


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

ouch! yuk!

Hopefully it will make him much more comfortable tho!


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

They got both sides clear by the time I picked him up, little swollen again now but he can now pass poop and that.
He is in a fowl mood poor thing, when I was giving him Critical care lastnight he upset him self so much he was sick. 
Seems ok this morning though. :2thumb:

just very thin :/


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## bewitched (Oct 27, 2010)

Thank-you for this information, My beardie has blocked fermonal glands and I have had great difficulty finding info on this. I also beleive it has been affectng him for awhile, luckely I dont think we have reached the infection stage. I have been softening and rubbing the blockage but was afraid to try removing them. I wish I could access the above mentioned magazine but I live in Canada, Teq is 10 and I dont want to scare him either. 
Sorry to hear about Pheonix, glad his brother is getting the care he needs now.


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

bewitched said:


> Thank-you for this information, My beardie has blocked fermonal glands and I have had great difficulty finding info on this. I also beleive it has been affectng him for awhile, luckely I dont think we have reached the infection stage. I have been softening and rubbing the blockage but was afraid to try removing them. I wish I could access the above mentioned magazine but I live in Canada, Teq is 10 and I dont want to scare him either.
> Sorry to hear about Pheonix, glad his brother is getting the care he needs now.


When you say blocked femoral glands do you mean the glands along the insides of the hind legs? This is different to infected hemipene plugs, which are infected accumalations of semen, dead epithelial cells and detritus inside the lumen of the hemipenes themselves (if you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of my article from the mag). 

As for the femoral glands, it is normal for these to contain small plugs of hard wax and you shouldn't be needing to rub or soak at them - you should only start to worry if these plugs become very large, swollen, red or painful, or the plugs become rock solid and elongated. If you post a pic we can let you know if your beardie's glands are normal or not.


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## JustJordan (Jul 2, 2008)

Sadly after all the work that was put in, Saffron passed away some time in the night. 
I cant say much as I am vey upset about this even if hes "just a gecko", but I think he died in his sleep and the infection got too much. 
I thought he was improving every hour so this was a huge blow to me. 

Thanks for all the support guys, hopefully I shall NEVER encounter this again as it was heart breaking to see such healthy males go down hill so quick. At least they can be together as brothers no longer in pain. 

RIP Saffron and Pheonix

Them as babies when I got them 









Saffron









Pheonix


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

Such a shame to read this, they were both beautiful geckos


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Oh no!!!!! I'm so sorry!!


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