# butter to caramel corn



## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

am i right in thinking if i pair a butter motley/stripe to a caramel het butter motley id get 50% butter motley and 50% caramel motley het amel with some stripe genes in both, or am i way off??? :lol2:


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## Demon9374 (Apr 22, 2009)

Seems I was way off with my understanding of corn morphs lol, I can't figure how to get "Caramel het butter" on The Corn Calculator - Corn snake genetics prediction :lol2:


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

thats what i was going of too however caramel is a combo of caramel and amel which would mean a caramel het 'butter' according to the calculator is a caramel het amel....

ponders..... so it 'should' give 50/50 butters and caramel het amel?


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## Demon9374 (Apr 22, 2009)

I should think so, with half the Caramel 50% Poss het for Stripe, same with the Butters. But I'm just going off CornCalc aswell. ^^


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

If you bred a butter motley/stripe to a caramel het butter motley 
you would get 
50% Butter Motley
50% Caramel Motley het Amel ( Amel making Butter )
As for the stripe gene, when you put a Motley stripe to a motley you just get more motleys, as motley is dominant over the stripe.
Some of the hatchlings may be carrying the stripe gene but it will be over run by the motley.
Stephen


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Demon9374 said:


> Seems I was way off with my understanding of corn morphs lol, I can't figure how to get "Caramel het butter" on The Corn Calculator - Corn snake genetics prediction :lol2:


you need to put in Caramel het amel, because there isn't a single gene called 'butter'


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

got it sussed, once i got the hang of what made a butter it made sense lol and if the caramel is not het amel then i assume id get all caramels?


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

storm said:


> if the caramel is not het amel then i assume id get all caramels?


Correct.

You have the butter X caramel het amelanistic part figured out, but the motley/stripe x het motley isn't right yet.

motley/stripe (assuming a motley gene paired with a stripe gene) x het motley (normal gene and motley gene) -->
1/4 normal looking, het motley (normal gene and motley gene)
1/4 normal looking, het stripe (normal gene and stripe gene)
1/4 motley (2 motley genes)
1/4 stripe/motley (motley gene and stripe gene, some to all may be indistinguishable from the motleys)

Summing the similar appearances produces
1/2 normal looking
1/2 motley to motley/stripe

butter motley/stripe to a caramel het butter motley -->
1/4 caramel (het amelanistic and either het motley or het stripe)
1/4 caramel motley to motley/stripe (het amelanistic)
1/4 butter (either het motley or het stripe)
1/4 butter motley to motley/stripe (het amelanistic)


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

storm said:


> thats what i was going of too however caramel is a combo of caramel and amel which would mean a caramel het 'butter' according to the calculator is a caramel het amel....
> 
> ponders..... so it 'should' give 50/50 butters and caramel het amel?


Caramel is not a combination of caramel and amel. Butter is a combination of caramel and amel.
I can't see how you could even put caramel het butter into the corn calculator, all you can put in is caramel het amel.
You could have a normal het butter and numerous other morphs that are het butter, but you can't have caramel het butter because the caramel that would be needed to make the het butter is already there in the base corn, not as a het.

When you put it into the corn calc it actually comes up with -

*Male: **Butter**, **Motley* ( Amel, Caramel, Motley ) het Stripe
*Female:* Caramel het Amel, Motley

*Phenotype: *
25.0% Caramel het Amel, Motley or Stripe
*25.0% **Caramel**, **Motley** het Amel 50% poss het. Stripe*
25.0% Butter ( Amel, Caramel ) het Motley or Stripe
*25.0% **Butter**, **Motley** ( **Amel**, **Caramel**, **Motley** ) 50% poss het. Stripe*

_The output contains corns that have a Motley gene paired with a Stripe gene. _
_The pattern may look like a Motley but may have varying influence from the Stripe gene. _

_So according to that, you would get - _
_25% Caramels with hets._
_25% Butters with hets._
_25% Caramel Motleys _
_and 25% Butter Motleys._
_So only 50% of the hatchlings would be visual motleys, the other 50% would only be het motley._
_I can't understand where people are getting the 100% visual motleys from._


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

I've just noticed that the question has been answered earlier. :blush: lol


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

no prob, was my typo with saying caremel being caramel and amel lol i meant thats butter is caramel and amel :lol2:

the butter is a butter motley/strip and the caramel is het amel motley,

as motley is dominant over stripe i would assume most of the offspring would be motley, perhaps a few motley/stripe if lucky but mostly motley.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Brittanicus said:


> You could have a normal het butter and numerous other morphs that are het butter, but you can't have caramel het butter because the caramel that would be needed to make the het butter is already there in the base corn, not as a het.


you can have het amel and caramel, but you can't have het butter in ANY corn, because butter isn't a gene.


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

eeji said:


> you can have het amel and caramel, but you can't have het butter in ANY corn, because butter isn't a gene.


:notworthy: Yes, Of Course You're Right! :notworthy:
Now you need to do a proper policing job and point this out to *"Everyone"* who describes a corn as het butter.:Na_Na_Na_Na:
I've even seen corns described as butter het butter on these forums.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Brittanicus said:


> ....I've even seen corns described as butter het butter on these forums.


that i can believe!


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

eeji said:


> that i can believe!


I didn't think for one moment you would have any difficulty believing.


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

there is currently some on classifieds advertised as het butter too.....


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

het butter basically means double het caramel and amel and is a perfectly valid term in all but the most pedantic circles:whistling2:. Just like het snow (dbl het anery and amel)

Clearly butter het butter is absolute rubbish and the person that posted it needs to be put on a pedestal and pointed at and laughed at....a lot!


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

bothrops said:


> het butter basically means double het caramel and amel and is a perfectly valid term in all but the most pedantic circles:whistling2:.


:gasp:
:lol2:


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

bothrops said:


> het butter basically means double het caramel and amel and is a perfectly valid term in all but the most pedantic circles:whistling2:. Just like het snow (dbl het anery and amel)
> 
> !


I would agree. It makes a bit more sense to me occasionally as otherwise my brain struggles with breeding combos......It does however REALLY irritate my OH, but I laughed a LOT when I noticed the labels on some of Septembers Hamm newby snakies - het topaz motley!:Na_Na_Na_Na: I think he has changed them now.......


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

....of course...don't get me started on such *absolute rubbish* as 'het candycane' or 'het Okeetee'.....:devil::devil:


....I have my limits too!


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## Brittanicus (May 8, 2009)

bothrops said:


> ....of course...don't get me started on such *absolute rubbish* as 'het candycane' or 'het Okeetee'.....:devil::devil:
> 
> 
> ....I have my limits too!


I have a female candycane that's het for candycane.:whistling2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Brittanicus said:


> I have a female candycane that's het for candycane.:whistling2:


Actually, you don't 

There is no guarantee that a candycane - even bred to another candycane - will produce any candycane offspring. It's guaranteed to produce *amel* offspring, but there's no definite that any of them will be visually candycanes.


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## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

:lol2:


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