# Urgent help kitting a viv out



## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Hey guys first of all im sorry for asking as im sure there is loads of threads and stickies etc but I need info quick to help me kit a viv out quickly:blush: .
Basically the story is my other half has found a youngish beardie running around near where we live we took it to a local reptile shop who straight away said it had been neglected as it has/had MBD and one of its legs was a little deformed due to this and the jaw (only going by what they said ) anyway we took it to a rescue centre who is looking after it for us (at a price) and we have decided to take the poor little guy on (we wanted one anyway) so the plan is to get a custom enclosure made but in the time being I have acquired a large viv about 5x3x3 for free but its got no kit inside so I need advice on what I need to heat a tank this size basking lights uv lights.
Im a sparking and have access to pretty much any shape and size of fitting and can order any special lamp need but I need to know what is best suited no doubt the replacement viv will be a similar size so everything will get transplanted in time.
Any advice people can give would be much appreciated by me the mrs and our new little friend.:notworthy:

Also if you have any other advice you think maybe usefull like correct substrate etc all are welcome.

For those who might be interested this is the little chap we found


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Welcome,

As he's young I'd go with lino, newspaper or kitchen roll. It eliminates any risk of impaction and is quick and easy to clean so shouldn't harbour many nasties.

As far as heating goes the best thing is to use a standard light fitting and light bulb (60w upwards I think for that size tank). The light needs to be attached to a dimming thermostat (you can get these from reptile shops, surrey pet supplies and swell reptiles online), this controls the temperature so it doesn't get dangerously hot or cold. You'll also need a digital thermometer so you know the exact temperatures under the basking light/hot/cold end (dials on thermostats aren't that accurate). You shouldn't need to use any night time heat unless your house gets colder than 65F, they need this drop in temperature to allow their body to rest. Remember to use a guard around the bulb, burns can be very nasty!

UVB wise you need a high percentage tube (10/12%) that runs 2/3 - 3/4 of the tank starting from the hot end. The height and type of tube depends on the tank, there is a great lighting guide on the Arcadia Reptile website that will guide you. The best UVB on the market is Arcadia bulbs (T5's are the most powerful) and will last you 9-12 months depending on the bulb.

You should provide areas to climb/levels especially under the basking light to allow them to choose the temperature that most suits them and the exposure to UVB. As he's young also provide him with areas to hide and even fake plants for them to climb.

Food wise feed him mostly bugs (a variety of locust, cricket, mealworms, marioworms, dubia roaches, calci-worms and silkworms etc is great), but he should also be provided with veg. See this site for good veg to feed > Untitled Document < You'll need to provide supplements, pure calcium dust and a multivitamin/D3 powder (such as nutrobal or Repashy calcium plus). Each person has their own regimes with this so you may want to do some research into supplementation. As he's already suffering from MBD you need to be on top of supplementation to prevent it from getting worse. If you choose to provide a water bowl for him make sure it's at the cool end to prevent an increase in humidity.

I think that's it...

Good luck with him


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Vgorst covered everything is spectacular detail.

However remember 110 F basking spot 

90-100f warm side

cool side 75-85 F


Cheers

PK


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

pk93 said:


> Vgorst covered everything is spectacular detail.
> 
> However remember 110 F basking spot
> 
> ...


Bah I knew I'd forget something! Shame it was something quite important :gasp:

Also UVB cycle should be around 12 hours but you can alter this to go with the seasons


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

vgorst said:


> Bah I knew I'd forget something! Shame it was something quite important :gasp:
> 
> Also UVB cycle should be around 12 hours but you can alter this to go with the seasons


Happens to the best of us. : victory:


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Well done you guys, not many people would even have given him a second look. Let alone gone to the effort that you have. A lot of respect is being sent your way. Good luck and keep us updated regarding as to how he's doing


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Some great advice guys many thanks il be popping to global geckos at lunch as they are literally on my door step to get the kit and some grub for the little guy/girl (we dont know yet)
I just hope that the lack of treatment he received is only a minor set back in his life we are both very excited to be getting him/her back.

Il be getting some pics up when we get him back so that you can all see the little chap and se the setup and comment and advise further.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

dacons said:


> Some great advice guys many thanks il be popping to global geckos at lunch as they are literally on my door step to get the kit and some grub for the little guy/girl (we dont know yet)
> I just hope that the lack of treatment he received is only a minor set back in his life we are both very excited to be getting him/her back.
> 
> Il be getting some pics up when we get him back so that you can all see the little chap and se the setup and comment and advise further.


I just saw the pictures that you linked  poor little guy, as long as he can eat and walk around fine he shouldn't need any special treatment apart from some really good supplements and UVB.

Glad you decided to keep him


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

vgorst said:


> Glad you decided to keep him


Never even crossed our mind not to even when we found out his issues how people can dump any animal is beyond me there are so many options and organizations these days so to dump an animal takes a special type of scum imo. 
Its always possible he just escaped but we are a small community and would have heard something by now a neighbor lost a tortoise and everyone knew that day so me thinks dumping scum!.:devil:


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

By the looks of him he's either been loose for ages (highly unlikely imo) or not given a great start/life by his previous 'owners'. He's better off without them and in a home that'll given him what he needs


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## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Two thing's :

ONE: Brilliant new's you decided to keep him and congratulation's.

TWO: Don't go into a reptile shop saying you don't know what to get because some with make you buy thing's you won't need at all now i'm not saying they will as i have never been their, someone already mentioned what you need,
Uv Starter and uv tube,
Climby thing's,
Basking set,
Food,water dish's.
The basic's ^^^^.

I'd say that vivarium would be fine for him/her.

Scott.

P.S Have a look at this thread if you have some time (you don't have to read it all LOL)
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/795593-bearded-dragon-thread-137.html


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah its why I asked here first I just wanted to know the basic needs to get it going then il build from there.


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## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

dacons said:


> Yeah its why I asked here first I just wanted to know the basic needs to get it going then il build from there.


Ok good to know as some people buy then ask and then finally find out they spent like £100+ on thing's they didn't need.

Remember to keep us updated on thing's and rememeber don't forget to ask anything if your not sure don't worry about some of the comment's on here you get from people as some people like to agitate people on here by snide comment's.:no1::no1::no1::no1:


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

scotty667 said:


> Remember to keep us updated on thing's and rememeber don't forget to ask anything if your not sure don't worry about some of the comment's on here you get from people as some people like to agitate people on here by snide comment's.:no1::no1::no1::no1:


Thanks will do and im used to people like that unfortunately been on a few forums for a few years and butted heads with a number of keyboard warriors so know to ignore them .


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Hahahaha 'keyboard warriors' I'm sorry but that is officially stolen lol love it


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## Dubia82 (Jan 19, 2012)

Just a little note on your bulb wattage...

... My beardie viv is only 4ft and uses a 75w bulb to its limits; I would probably be using at least a 100w bulb in a 5ft viv that's 3ft high.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Also, forgot to mention, get a u.v bulb reflector. : victory:


PK


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok slight adjustment its 4ft by 2ft by 2ft anyway got most of the bits today went to global gecko great bunch not the cheapest but they help us out when we found our little chap and I didnt have time to shop around online.
I walked out with a digi thermostat , thermostatic dimmer , infra red ceramic lamp and cage , T5 UVB lamp (my choice) and reflector and some sand still gotta sort the logs and bowls out also decided to try and get the light fittings via work (im a sparky) it all came to a small fortune but its ok I trust they didnt take full advantage and I want it all to be right for when we get him/her back.
Just need to clean the viv I got out as its used then il kit the sucka out.
Thanks again for all the help and any further tips are fully welcome.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

dacons said:


> Ok slight adjustment its 4ft by 2ft by 2ft anyway got most of the bits today went to global gecko great bunch not the cheapest but they help us out when we found our little chap and I didnt have time to shop around online.
> I walked out with a digi thermostat , thermostatic dimmer , infra red ceramic lamp and cage , T5 UVB lamp (my choice) and reflector and some sand still gotta sort the logs and bowls out also decided to try and get the light fittings via work (im a sparky) it all came to a small fortune but its ok I trust they didnt take full advantage and I want it all to be right for when we get him/her back.
> Just need to clean the viv I got out as its used then il kit the sucka out.
> Thanks again for all the help and any further tips are fully welcome.


Infa red ceramic?


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Yep ceramic infra red heat bulb


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

dacons said:


> Yep ceramic infra red heat bulb


No such thing. 

Its either a infa red bulb....a bulb with red glass or a ceramic bulb like this,

http://www.pegasuspets.co.uk/images...agic-ceramic-bulb-3006473-0-1262962993000.jpg


PK


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Its what it says on the box :hmm:











It says it has an infra red element


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

dacons said:


> Its what it says on the box :hmm:
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Hmm interesting, you got a picture of the actual bulb?

PK


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Similar to the one in your pic


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Ceramics aren't often used with beardies as they prefer to bask in light but they do the job. Have you got a ceramic fitting? Ceramics get very hot and will melt plastic fittings. Dimming thermostats aren't great for ceramics but can be used, if you're able to I would return the ceramic and just use a standard light emitting bulb - quicker and cheaper to replace when they die too


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

yeah I have ceramic fittings and I did think a normal bulb would be ok but the guys a full on zoologist and uses the stuff at home also they have a thing about all tanks should have a stat in so il give it ago and maybe switch to a normal bulb which I have stacks of at work .


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

vgorst said:


> Ceramics aren't often used with beardies as they prefer to bask in light but they do the job. Have you got a ceramic fitting? Ceramics get very hot and will melt plastic fittings. Dimming thermostats aren't great for ceramics but can be used, if you're able to I would return the ceramic and just use a standard light emitting bulb - quicker and cheaper to replace when they die too


Dimmers work well with everything. :2thumb:

I generally use a light emitting bulb, however i have just put a ceramic in as the bulb blew, imo ceramics are much more financially viable. 


But my beardie loves actually having a "sun".


: victory:

PK


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## readingshepp (Jul 2, 2011)

We just got a baby beardie from the same people who you took yours to. Saw him on facebook. Sounds like he's going to have a lovely home


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

well we got him back today he's a bit unsure about us doesn't really like being touched hopefully it will pass in time il do a full right up with lots of pics when I have time but for now heres a quick pic.









Quick question we have fed him a cricket and put out some lettuce and fruit but how often do I feed him the crickets as I put another in and he is just ignoring it.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

dacons said:


> well we got him back today he's a bit unsure about us doesn't really like being touched hopefully it will pass in time il do a full right up with lots of pics when I have time but for now heres a quick pic.
> image
> 
> Quick question we have fed him a cricket and put out some lettuce and fruit but how often do I feed him the crickets as I put another in and he is just ignoring it.


As many as he will eat in like 10 minutes, remember not to leave any insects in with him overnight.

His left leg looks in bad condition, i guess due to his MBD, is he on treatment for it?


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Is there a reason you cant leave them in with him dont get me wrong im not questioning the advice just good to know reasons for things.

Yeah his legs pretty bad and been told that wont change unfortunatly same with his jaw I did ask if we should do anything extra but Will at global gecko said between the T5 UVB tube and the calcium & multi vitamin sup it would be enough .


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Because crickets can bite and although may not do any major physical damage it can cause the lizard unnecessary stress which in any case isnt good but especially in a case such as this as stress result in premature deaths


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok cool thanks for enlightening me.


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Your welcome


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Little update weve had hime a few days now and I think he is slowly adjusting to us and all the attention he is getting he,s still a bit skittish doesnt like being handled but hes a bit more curious then sunday when we got him home also his appetite has increased up until today he was only eating 1 maybe 2 crickets but today he knock 6 back in hit before he had enough so thats good he still needs a bit of fattening but he,s getting there.

A little question though ive put water out for him and we put fresh veg (mainly lettuce ) but he isnt interested even in fruit in fact he doesn't seem to venture far away from the heat lamp at all is this unusual or maybe again something that will come in time.


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Try putting the veg in a food bowl with the live food the movement of the live may spark his interest but keep trying with it as for water some wont even touch it anyway if this is the case try bathing for hydration but don't let the water level get higher than your second knuckle of your forefinger and the water needs to be luke warm so as not to burn or shock


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

yeah gonna try bathing him tomorrow as for sticking the bugd in his food unfortunately he doesnt seem to be interested in chasing them maybe due to his bad leg I end up either hand feeding them (using tweezers) or putting them right next to him but if they leap he doesnt chase.


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## Africandragoncorn (Sep 16, 2012)

Ahhhh in that case makes it a lil more difficult still keep trying he may be reluctant however he should hopefully warm to it eventually


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Just to add, crickets can actually do serious damage if they're left in. A bite does not seem like much but if it's left unnoticed or untreated then it can cause all kinds of infections.

If you have a water bowl in his tank leave it in the cool end, if it's in the warm end it can raise the humidity which can cause respiratory problems. Lots of beardies (especially when they're young) won't bother with veg. Keep providing it though and gutload your bugs with it as they'll pass the nutrients and water on. Have a look at the link I provided you earlier, you should mix up his veg and provide more than lettuce (and stay clear of most fruit).

If he's not wanting to be handled then I would advise against bathing, you're just putting him under extra stress that may be unnecessary. If he shows signs of dehydration (wrinkly skin and sunken eyes) then bathe him but not before. He should get most, if not all, the water he needs from his food.


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

yeah i keep the bowl down the cool end same with his veg bowl as for veg yeah we mix it up a bit it isnt just lettuce he seems to enjoy dandy lion leaves a bit I manged to hand feed a couple of them to him yesterday which is handy as we have a stack load on the lawn (polutant free) yeah I skimmed the link but have been given a pretty clear do,s and dont,s sheet on veg from global gecko they also said a bit of fruit is ok just to break things up and a little treat but again only certain types and a small amount in with his proper food but again he isnt eating that either he seems to prefer the hand feed the lazy little so and so lol makes me wonder how he survived out side for however long.
The bath thing well may leave that a little longer until he settles a bit more or get the mrs to do it he seems to like her a little more then me in that he squirms a little less........Figures.:roll:


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Just gone through the food list very detailed and helpful and it seems dandylion greens are the biz even for us apparently but I was wondering what about the flowers (when the yellow not seeding) is that ok for him as I know a friend who has a tortoise and whenever he is outside he make a beeline for the dandylions and muchs though the heads like there crack for tortoises.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Yeah I've heard dandelion flowers are ok to feed


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Cool:2thumb:


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Well its official he is a lazy little so and so I just fed him a load of dandelion greens and he munched em down no problem the ate 2 crickets all hand fed yet he wont wonder over to his bowl and eat.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

He may not be lazy (although loads of beardies can be!), he may still be settling in so not willing to explore or the MBD in his leg may make chasing bugs down difficult/painful. See if you can wean him off hand feeding, if he's hungry he'll chase his food down. If he looks in pain when chasing them down then hand feeding may be the best option for him.


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

yeah I think il give him a week or 2 first so he settles cos at the moment if I let the cricket go it bounces away then crawls up the walls it doesnt really help that he is in a large-ish enclosure .
I mean he can run and quite well when he wants to we got him out and plonked him in the middle of the living room floor and he bolted straight back into the tank.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Yeah the best thing is to let him settle, you can always slow the crickets down by popping them in the fridge for 5-10mins. He may be able to run but that may be more because fear is over-riding any pain (they're good at hiding injury/illness).


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to add lettuce is not a good veg for beardies, well certainly the likes of romaine and iceberg. Rocket is ok. Check the beardy nutritional chart and it tells you all the good staples and how often everything should be fed.


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

just put a pair of thin gloves on so I cant feel his spikes and claws and he seemed much happier when i picked him up guess he could sense my hesitation and panicked when I flinched so may use them for a while until we both adjust to each other a bit more.

@tomcannon yeah we where warned agains iceberg and told just to give him loose leaf lettuce but from the chart it seems pointless as there isnt anything in it for hi so will stick with dandelion green and mix it up with some squash and other bits.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Lettuce does have nutrients but a lot of water. It's good for hydration but too much can give them the runs. Each food item has certain nutrients in differing concentrations which is why you need to mix it up quite often to make sure they get all the nutrients they require


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## tomcannon (Jan 2, 2008)

dacons said:


> just put a pair of thin gloves on so I cant feel his spikes and claws and he seemed much happier when i picked him up guess he could sense my hesitation and panicked when I flinched so may use them for a while until we both adjust to each other a bit more.
> 
> @tomcannon yeah we where warned agains iceberg and told just to give him loose leaf lettuce but from the chart it seems pointless as there isnt anything in it for hi so will stick with dandelion green and mix it up with some squash and other bits.


It uses US names. Collard greens for example are spring greens which are widely available, kale and watercress are also good. I feed those mentioned plus rocket once in a while. Although I may as well feed him rocks as he doesn't eat it!


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Well he just munched a couple of small cubes of cucumber with no hesitation even gave chase to one that fell of the log so atleast im getting an idea of what he likes and cucumber is a great source of water guess its just a case of trying everything and seeing what he likes.


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok will be posting a big hello thread soon with pics etc but have yet another question we got up this morning and he was very pale well light tan which did fade now he is really dark but ive now read that light means relaxed and warm and dark means stressed or cold is this right .


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## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

dacons said:


> Ok will be posting a big hello thread soon with pics etc but have yet another question we got up this morning and he was very pale well light tan which did fade now he is really dark but ive now read that light means relaxed and warm and dark means stressed or cold is this right .


Before his lights went on their normally darker in colour as the darker the colour the more cold they are, the lighter and more brighter appearance they are means they're more warm, i persume you turn yours off at night.


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah 12 on 12 off


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Did a little back story with some pics here


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok well few more questions sorry I know I should start posting in the lizard section but anyway,
Sheldon is doing really well now he is becoming far more curious and adventurous we leave the front of the viv open when we are there and he dashs in and out not sure if he is exploring or trying to make a break for it lol anyway questions 1 he is now bang on his food and eating for England we leave veg in with him all day which he munchs on mainly at night then about 4-5 oclock we break out the locusts but here is my question should I limit how many he should eat or will he know as he is eating nearly a tub a day now and dont wanna over do it.

Question 2 going back to the colour thing in the last few days his body has been darkish but his head almost white is that anything to worry about.

Question 3 this may tie in with 2 but he doesnt ever venture away from the heated end infact he pretty much stays under the heat lamp day and night I thought they liked cool when they sleep.
For the record cool end is 26 (although rises a degree or 2 in the day) hot end is 33 as recommended.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Questions answered in red 



dacons said:


> Ok well few more questions sorry I know I should start posting in the lizard section but anyway,
> Sheldon is doing really well now he is becoming far more curious and adventurous we leave the front of the viv open when we are there and he dashs in and out not sure if he is exploring or trying to make a break for it lol anyway questions 1 he is now bang on his food and eating for England we leave veg in with him all day which he munchs on mainly at night then about 4-5 oclock we break out the locusts but here is my question should I limit how many he should eat or will he know as he is eating nearly a tub a day now and dont wanna over do it.
> Don't feed him at night after his lights are out, that's when his body should be resting. The lack of heat means that he can't digest his food properly which could cause problems in the long-term. I can't remember how old he's meant to be, personally I would give a small handful of veg at the beginning of the day and a few hours before his lights go out give him enough locust to last 5-10 minutes (depending on how quick he catches and eats them).
> 
> ...


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

firstly thanks for the response and advice its really appreciated.

Ok his basking light isnt actually a light its a ceramic lamp no light just heat so its on 24/7 but his UC tube is on 12 hours off 12 hours,
Feeding wise 10 minutes is about 7-8 medium/large locusts which is what I try and give him no more is that ok .


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

All heating should be turned down/off at night, night time temperatures allow their body to rest.

It's down to the beardy, that amount sounds ok but keep an eye on his weight and body condition. You don't want him to get too chubby


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## dacons (Jul 9, 2012)

Interesting so what temp du suggest at night I'd rather not kill it completely as its getting cold at night now and the heating goes of.

He does seem to know when he's had enough but he gets pretty ravenous at feeding time if I put the box on the floor he charges out the tank and attacks the box it's quite sweet lol.


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