# What Is The Best Undergravel Filter?



## Danny200 (Aug 8, 2008)

Hey i am looking for a undergravel filter but the ones i seen just look like cheap junk i was wondering what is the best undergravel filter one that would really work really well any help be msot appreciated thanks :2thumb:


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

Undergravel filters are the same, its just a sheet of plastic that goes under the gravel with a tube and a powerhead sits ontop of the tube.

What is your tank dimensions?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Ash1988 said:


> Undergravel filters are the same, its just a sheet of plastic that goes under the gravel with a tube and a powerhead sits ontop of the tube.
> 
> What is your tank dimensions?


i think the o.p means are there any of a higher quality build than others? myself i don't know, as i no longer use one.


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> i think the o.p means are there any of a higher quality build than others? myself i don't know, as i no longer use one.


Oh right lol
Algarde, Rena or Interpet would be the best bet for better quality build.

I use the Algarde with 2 interpet PH4's = almost 2000LPH


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

None.


They all belong in the trash.

Invest that money in a better canister, or an Emperor 400+ or BOTH.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

undergravel filters aren't trash...

they work very well...
i have always liked them and always had great results...

they have their place in the hobby...

you just have to know how to use and maintain them properly... they work great with hot and canister filters...


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## Sand_Storm (Dec 29, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> None.
> 
> 
> They all belong in the trash.
> ...


 I agree. UG filters just add another tricky element to keeping your water quality within the optimum parameters. Go for a canister.


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

Sand_Storm said:


> I agree. UG filters just add another tricky element to keeping your water quality within the optimum parameters. Go for a canister.


Have to disagree, ive had a UFG now for well over a year and the water quality is great, never had a problem with it, as long as you do your weekly WC's and monthly gravel vacs i dont see why they are so bad.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Ash1988 said:


> Have to disagree, ive had a UFG now for well over a year and the water quality is great, never had a problem with it, as long as you do your weekly WC's and monthly gravel vacs i dont see why they are so bad.




Yea, but do you have a canister intake hooked into the column on your UGF? I couldn't imagine it being useful in any other way since it traps toxins and allows them to build up.

I could understand IF the power of the canister was running the UGF, but a powerhead or air pump is not nearly enough, IMO.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

600 gph isn't enough?

jeez!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

HABU said:


> 600 gph isn't enough?
> 
> jeez!



You have a powerhead that moves 600 gallons an hour???? {(-_-)} :gasp:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> You have a powerhead that moves 600 gallons an hour???? {(-_-)} :gasp:


yes, there are powerheads that do that- maxijet include one in their range.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> Yea, but do you have a canister intake hooked into the column on your UGF? I couldn't imagine it being useful in any other way since it traps toxins and allows them to build up.
> 
> I could understand IF the power of the canister was running the UGF, but a powerhead or air pump is not nearly enough, IMO.


i never had any such problems with u/g filters- & i NEVER use canisters- the thought of pipes working loose/seals leaking makes me too paranoid, especially as i've had the former happen the only time i ever used one, & my uncle had both happen on a few occasions. i used u/g as the only filtration, or with an internal to provide carbon, etc. i found them a doddle to use, & only stopped using them because i have one planted tank, & u/g ain't so good for them (that's a juwel) & my other tanks also have been replaced by ones with integrated filters. i only ever used a powerhead or airpump to drive u/g's.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> i never had any such problems with u/g filters- & i NEVER use canisters- the thought of pipes working loose/seals leaking makes me too paranoid, especially as i've had the former happen the only time i ever used one, & my uncle had both happen on a few occasions. i used u/g as the only filtration, or with an internal to provide carbon, etc. i found them a doddle to use, & only stopped using them because i have one planted tank, & u/g ain't so good for them (that's a juwel) & my other tanks also have been replaced by ones with integrated filters. i only ever used a powerhead or airpump to drive u/g's.




Damn dude, that's interesting,....the only time I ever used UGs was horrible and they didn't clean anything or do anything barely.....lol, it was just a 10 gallon and it was running on a 9500 air pump, rated up to 55+ gallons.....lol, idk wtf was wrong w/ it.

Now I still use different types, but no UGs, ,...just Canister, HOB and submersible.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

2-300 gph powerheads each on a stack... you have reverse flow powerheads people commonly use that blow the water up through the gravel instead of sucking it down and trapping debris... it keeps crap suspended instead of drawing it down into the gravel...

all i'm saying is ugfs have their place... maybe not for everyone and not for some definately... but to dismiss them outright isn't productive...

i've worked in shops that only ran ugfs in their tanks...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> You have a powerhead that moves 600 gallons an hour???? {(-_-)} :gasp:


i've always used marineland and aquaclear powerheads...

Marineland Maxi Jet Power Head Pump Aquarium Powerheads

Aqua Clear Power Head

powerheads are a must IMO for many applications...


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## Ash1988 (Nov 9, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> Yea, but do you have a canister intake hooked into the column on your UGF? I couldn't imagine it being useful in any other way since it traps toxins and allows them to build up.
> 
> I could understand IF the power of the canister was running the UGF, but a powerhead or air pump is not nearly enough, IMO.


I have 2 powerheads that go into 2 different columns, one on each side of tank and the powerheads are 1000lph each. Interpet PHD 4's.
Works great.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

LOL, i'm following what u guys are saying, but I don't think it would work too well for the beasties I keep. I have heard that an UGF is actually more harmful than helpful to large predatory Cichlids if anything...... and that is ALL I keep, aside from the snakes and dogs....... and my Tiger Salamander. :2thumb:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> LOL, i'm following what u guys are saying, but I don't think it would work too well for the beasties I keep. I have heard that an UGF is actually more harmful than helpful to large predatory Cichlids if anything...... and that is ALL I keep, aside from the snakes and dogs....... and my Tiger Salamander. :2thumb:


 cichlids put out a lot of ammonia...

strong biological filtration is a must... as in goldfish which do the same...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> Damn dude, that's interesting,....the only time I ever used UGs was horrible and they didn't clean anything or do anything barely.....lol, it was just a 10 gallon and it was running on a 9500 air pump, rated up to 55+ gallons.....lol, idk wtf was wrong w/ it.
> 
> Now I still use different types, but no UGs, ,...just Canister, HOB and submersible.


a 55 gal rated pump in a 10 gal tank? that was your problem- too high a turnover for the gravel to get a chance to trap the dirt & biodegrade it!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> a 55 gal rated pump in a 10 gal tank? that was your problem- too high a turnover for the gravel to get a chance to trap the dirt & biodegrade it!



It was just an air pump, man....all it did was pump out bubbles.....


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> It was just an air pump, man....all it did was pump out bubbles.....


no- the high rate of the bubbles will have produced a high turnover- too high for a 10 gal tank- for a u/g you need a more gentle turnover- that's how they work.


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

The answer to the original question is....RENA (if you can get the small fit-together plates then they are the best).

As for U/G filtration in general..........obviously not much use in a tank with no gravel or with peat substrate for killifish breeding. 

Other than that, U/G filtration can be a very effective means of filtration.
I don't use any anymore as I got rid of all my u/g filters when I moved, and didn't bother getting any again.

However, air-pumped powered U/G filters work great; reverse flow U/G filters work great (if the flow is managed properly).

Deep coral gravel u/g filtration systems work really well in marine tanks.
When I was a curator of a public aquarium (oooh back in the 70s) I used u/g filters on all tanks including the marines and all were powered by air-pumps (well....a bit more than a single normal aquarium pump).

In my opinion, the only reason why u/g filters might be called rubbish is as in aping the snobbery that came along in the 80s with "Yah, I've got a Tunze overhead costing uber thousands....because I'm richer than yow" 

ian


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

igmillichip said:


> The answer to the original question is....RENA (if you can get the small fit-together plates then they are the best).
> 
> As for U/G filtration in general..........obviously not much use in a tank with no gravel or with peat substrate for killifish breeding.
> 
> ...


this. or if you run them on too powerful an air/water pump in a f/w tank. in a marine tank it's different because you have a deeper & finer substrate.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

HABU said:


> i've always used marineland and aquaclear powerheads...
> 
> Marineland Maxi Jet Power Head Pump Aquarium Powerheads
> 
> ...



Both very good powerheads. They did like the taste of my entacmea quadricolour though


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> this. or if you run them on too powerful an air/water pump in a f/w tank. in a marine tank it's different because you have a deeper & finer substrate.



See i don't understand this, cuz everyone I always talked to told me the filtration for Cichlids should be double the size of the tank at minimum. How is too much filtration a negative? I didn't there WAS such a thing as "too much filtration".


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> See i don't understand this, cuz everyone I always talked to told me the filtration for Cichlids should be double the size of the tank at minimum. How is too much filtration a negative? I didn't there WAS such a thing as "too much filtration".


the filtration surface area, yes- doubling the turnover won't achieve that, it will make a u/g inefficient. too much turnover does not equal extra filtration.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> the filtration surface area, yes- doubling the turnover won't achieve that, it will make a u/g inefficient. too much turnover does not equal extra filtration.



So isn't the larger more powerful air pump forcing more water and grime thru the filter and thus making it MORE efficient? How is the opposite happening in this instance?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Victor Creed said:


> So isn't the larger more powerful air pump forcing more water and grime thru the filter and thus making it MORE efficient? How is the opposite happening in this instance?


no- in a u/g filter, you need to slow the flow down, to allow the bacteria time to process & break down the waste. too high a flow will defeat this goal. in a marine tank it's different because you have a a deeper, finer substrate, & need a higher turnover to push the water through this. in a f/w tank, you have a coarser substrate, so a slower flow is called for.


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

There is a difference between 'high effective filtration turn-over' and 'high flow-rate'.

Having a high flow-rate is not necessarily a good thing especially if we are considering the notion of biological filtration. However, it can be put to good use in a well designed and planned system.

But even if we consider the complete biological side of things, there are some considerations if the efficiency of the high-efficiency biological filtration/cycles is not balanced with appropriate oxygen levels and the availability of redox and alkalinity buffers.
Running a biological filtration system at an unbalanced high rate in a warm tank (eg Discus) in water that lacks appropriate buffers (as is seen in some discus keepers tanks) can result in a large decrease in available oxygen for the fish and the potential increased risk of an acid crash.

Hence, there does need a balance to be present. In most practical situations, that balance is probably adequately met (well...I guess at such as I don't think anyone will ever be testing ever tank in the world  ).

ps. I have just seen steve.wilkins has posted some good points that I fully agree with. Bump upwards to those points.

ian


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## lewis1504 (Jan 25, 2011)

undergravel filters are becoming outdated because

they suck waste into the gravel so without routine maintenance (were talking bi-monthly gravel siphoning and cleaning) they will harbour nasties and this could mean any catfish or fish that root in gravel could possibly release these nasties into the water

useless if you want to keep kooli loach as they disappear into it

the water will find the easiest route through the gravel therefore meaning it make work well to the eye but in fact the water is just moving with out sucking the nasties and locking them in the gravel

i will say though with very good maintenance levels on them they are very good - but many people have not the time to maintain them efficiently whereas a powerfilter literally sucks it in and traps the waste


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