# Warnign Do Not Purchase From This Site



## Barney_M (Apr 2, 2008)

Exotic Pets - Amphibian, Reptile and Invert UK exotic pet shop

they look like they have great deals but dont be fooled. I have heard numerous cases were orders have arrived dead or very sick.
I have tried ordering twice - both times after 3 weeks order had not been sent after emailing animal was 'out of stock' it took a further 6 weeks to get a refund.

I would not deal with this website ever again and I dont advise chancing it


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi Herper666, 

What are the order numbers? I'll look in to it.

Cheers, Phil


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

exotic pets are awful..

took 8 weeks for a refund


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi Sparkle, could you send me your order number please - so I can look in to it?

Nice piercing 

Cheers, Phil


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I take it that its your site Phil? Tbh it doesnt have a good reputation, but would be cool if you would accept feedback.


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

some one called karren think thats how you spell it runs/owns it as far as i know so i asume he probs is the husband ect 

all ive heard about the company is they have stock listed that they do not own then when some one orders then try to get the animal in but crnt always thats why it takes so long or a refund is needed this is just what i have heard 

luke


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi mate, not exactly my site.

I'm Karen's brother - a friend and I are web design/developers for the site. 

I've noticed that the site hasn't got a good reputation here - and I wanted to get to the bottom of it (yeah, get some feedback basically). 

Cheers, Phil


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

to be frank Phil it was last year and i cant be bothered...

I took a lot of time and effort to try and get a refund .. any more effort spent on it would be pointelss now..

Luckily mines wasnt nor is the worst case.. lucky for me as some of the pics I have seen on DOA reps from this sitehave been really sad 



the site has a pretty bad reputation and Im not sure if you have taken OVER the business from someone else and are willing to make changes...

if so that would be great as exotic pets is probably one of the ones online most people are told to avoid...

cheers glad u like the piercing.. have taken it out now as i got bored of it and am going to get some new ones


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

philbaker76 said:


> Hi mate, not exactly my site.
> 
> I'm Karen's brother - a friend and I are web design/developers for the site.
> 
> ...


you seem like a decent enough bloke, hope you get the feedback you want without it turning into a slagging match.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

lukendaniel said:


> all ive heard about the company is they have stock listed that they do not own then when some one orders then try to get the animal in but crnt always thats why it takes so long or a refund is needed this is just what i have heard


...yeah, sort of - not all the stock listed is "on site"; some of it is available to order from several wholesalers, traders, private breeders etc.

Stock is updated weekly, and sometimes the suppliers sell out before Karen can order.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

If you do a search for exotic-pets you get quite a lot of feedback from people's experiences, so to speak - which should give you an indication of why the site does not have the greatest of reputations here.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Dare I ask where the new piercings with be Sparkle? ;-) ...I'd really like to find out what happened with your order - if you PM me your name I can look it up.

SiUK - no mate, not here for a slagging match  just feedback. 

Cheers, Phil


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## bluetongued (Apr 25, 2007)

I will give you some feedback...half dead or dieing reptiles really disgusting...the place should be shut down.

If you are able to change that then...great.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Athravan said:


> If you do a search for exotic-pets you get quite a lot of feedback from people's experiences, so to speak - which should give you an indication of why the site does not have the greatest of reputations here.


Hi Athravan, yeah I've seen some of the posts. I'm looking for order numbers so I can find out exactly what has happened.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

I've looked into the site a few times - Phil, set up a thread on people's experiences, and there views on how you could upgrade the company/reputation. Could help alot, Jay.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

bluetongued said:


> I will give you some feedback...half dead or dieing reptiles really disgusting...the place should be shut down.
> 
> If you are able to change that then...great.


Yeah, I agree mate.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

jakeelvin123 said:


> Phil, set up a thread on people's experiences, and there views on how you could upgrade the company/reputation. Could help alot, Jay.


yeah I recon thats a good idea, if people manage to keep it civil then it could benefit the company reputation.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

jakeelvin123 said:


> I've looked into the site a few times - Phil, set up a thread on people's experiences, and there views on how you could upgrade the company/reputation. Could help alot, Jay.


Good idea Jay. Where would the best place to start this thread?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

General Herp Chat - Reptile Forums UK

stick it in there I recon


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

SiUK said:


> General Herp Chat - Reptile Forums UK
> 
> stick it in there I recon


Will do. Thanks SiUK.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156982-exotic-pets-co-uk-feedback.html#post2111284


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

philbaker76 said:


> Hi Athravan, yeah I've seen some of the posts. I'm looking for order numbers so I can find out exactly what has happened.


This is genuine feedback for you, i'm not trying to bash anyone here..

"exactly what happens" is this:

You're advertising a whole bunch of animals she's never stocked, probably can never get hold of (i'd certainly be interested to know her UK breeder/wholesaler for anogolans for example?) and never has had in stock.

the website is (i beleive purposefully) misleading. People get the impression they are dealing with a large company that really has had all this stuff in stock at some point in the past.

Remove all the garbage youy've never had and never will have and just keep an honest stock list of what you have right now. Currently the website looks like exactly what it is:

each and ever species she's ever seen on any of the wholesale lists listed on the website. Whittle it down to a realistic offering of things she KNOWS she can lay her hands on, anyhting else is just misleading.


The stock:

while most of the basic stuff i've seen from karen (corns, leos etc) has been fine a lot of the less than standard stuff (retics etc) has been of the very worst quality. more effort sourcing quality animals, more time acclimitising them (ie not wholesaler->courier->Karen->courier->customer in the space of 3-14 days) would work wonders. The majority of complaints on this site are form people who effectively been fooled by the "out of stock" items on the website (this gives the impression they have been in stock at some point, when most of them have not) OR from poor animal quality (dead on arrival, dead soon after arrival) I'd also suggest not selling so many things that she doesn't have direct experience of. How (for a random example) is someone supposed to tell that the bag full of retics that turned up are healthy snakes when they have never kept them before. I know accidents happen and there are always exceptions but you should know that for every good word thats said about her online there are another 100 people (i'll be honest, myself included) telling them to buy from ANYWHERE else. thats certainly the direction each and every "has anyone ever brought from..." threads go.

I think an overall more honest approach will draw in more custom, unless you think that pages and pages of "out of stock" animals. I'd also remove the "hig end" stock. It'll be a very lucky sale indeed if you ever sell (for example) a woma python at roughly 3 times current market sale price, there are actual shops (ie not web only businesses) that sell pairs of womas cheaper than you do per snake. Again thats because these are animals she's never ordered/stocked so all she can do is stick the "per single snake" price from the wholesaler on plus her markup with no idea how competative (or otherwise!) this makes her. Again this won't attract repeat visitors, it'll put people off.

Advertise the company as what it is, don't try and appear to be something else.

you asked for reasons, please take this as contructive, thats how it was intended. you did ask


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mason said:


> This is genuine feedback for you, i'm not trying to bash anyone here..
> 
> "exactly what happens" is this:
> 
> ...


Everything listed has been (and is expected to be) available at some point. Want to keep the pages on for the information.

Not trying to look bigger; but I appreciate the feedback - I think a realistic "About us" would probably help.



Mason said:


> The stock:
> 
> while most of the basic stuff i've seen from karen (corns, leos etc) has been fine a lot of the less than standard stuff (retics etc) has been of the very worst quality. more effort sourcing quality animals, more time acclimitising them (ie not wholesaler->courier->Karen->courier->customer in the space of 3-14 days) would work wonders. The majority of complaints on this site are form people who effectively been fooled by the "out of stock" items on the website (this gives the impression they have been in stock at some point, when most of them have not) OR from poor animal quality (dead on arrival, dead soon after arrival) I'd also suggest not selling so many things that she doesn't have direct experience of. How (for a random example) is someone supposed to tell that the bag full of retics that turned up are healthy snakes when they have never kept them before. I know accidents happen and there are always exceptions but you should know that for every good word thats said about her online there are another 100 people (i'll be honest, myself included) telling them to buy from ANYWHERE else. thats certainly the direction each and every "has anyone ever brought from..." threads go.
> 
> ...


Not many people can say they have experience in everything - but before any new species is housed at the farm - it is researched with a habitat waiting for it.

The cost of all the pets on there reflect the price they are offered to her at. Thanks for your feedback.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

many of us have waited 2 to 3 months for our money back..

nice little earner for interest in the bank for whoever has the cash for that amount of time...

I agree with the other poster... advertise what IS available and stop letting people buy whats not then have shocking aftersales..

How would you feel if you ordered a holiday got to the airport and were told there were no seats.. but they would be some soon.. and there had been some in the past

its a dreadful way to conduct business...


If i were to give you advice..

id have a meeting with karen explain the way she does business regarding sales etc is awful and after sales even worse..

Change the website to reflect genuine availability .. make sure the animal care is paramount..

be 100% that everything were feeding back is discussed at a meeeting..

we are potential customers...

we know what we need and respect in a reptile sales site..

and at the moment exotic pets is not it unfortunately


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats one of the main things thats off putting when you first come across the site IMO I think it would work better if you had a list of whats available then and there, because I clicked through for ages seeing things I liked the look of but none was in stock and its a bit frustrating trying to see what is in stock and whats not.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

perhaps I wans't clear enough, i'm not disputing that all the animals she lists have been available to her at some point, I know they have been many of us have access to the same trades lists I am saying that "out of stock" implies that there has been, at some point, some IN stock. which we both know isn't the case for masses of the stock on your site. Thats what I meant by misleading.

An honest "about us" page would be a very good idea.

I am also not suggesting that people need ot know everyhting about each species they sell but with the amount of unhealthy animals reported something must be going wrong somewhere.

It's either cack stock, lack of knowledge, poor courier (etc etc) but there must be something. Cutting back on the more unusual stuff would, I suspect, cause that type of complaint to vanish over time.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

SiUK said:


> thats one of the main things thats off putting when you first come across the site IMO I think it would work better if you had a list of whats available then and there, because I clicked through for ages seeing things I liked the look of but none was in stock and its a bit frustrating trying to see what is in stock and whats not.


 
exactly the point I was trying to make Si.

A customer see "out of stock" x 300 every time they go on the site, it's not long before they stop going on at all. It really, honestly does put people off.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

he has a feedback thread now mason..

might be worth copying and pasting what you have said here as there were some excellent valid points


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mason said:


> exactly the point I was trying to make Si.
> 
> A customer see "out of stock" x 300 every time they go on the site, it's not long before they stop going on at all. It really, honestly does put people off.


I think we changed this when we updated the email notifications - the idea of leaving the page on - was so people have access to the info. But again, great points they won't go ignored. :notworthy:


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## Storm Python (Jan 10, 2008)

*I recently got a female cali king from them that is n tip top condition.*
*I will admit i did read all the bad feedback this company has had & decided to go with hem anyway & am very inpressed with the level of service i got.*

*Seems that a lot of people are not using them due to a few bad experiences which im sure is a minor percentage of the sales they make.*


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

StormTrooper said:


> *I recently got a female cali king from them that is n tip top condition**...*


Thanks StormTrooper - this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. 

In fact a lot of our customers buy regularly. There may have been issues in the past with replying to e-mail - due to the amount of it, but would hope that's a think of the past.

I've posted a thread for feedback:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156982-exotic-pets-co-uk-feedback.html

Thanks again for your comments - Cheers, Phil


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

You say that you keep the pages up for the info...then how come half of the pages have no info at all?

Besides which what's to stop you creating a seperate area solely for caresheets? It would help clean up the site and make it a hell of a lot more appealing to your potential customers, at the moment its a shambles.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156982-exotic-pets-co-uk-feedback.html


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks, yeah, i'd put it on general chat too, Just get people views and take it from there:2thumb:


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

i know lol i just noticed it as i posted XD Thanks guys : victory:


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

I used to buy Mantids off Karen back in the day. Mantids were often out of stock then too but there were always other suppliers. She always answered emails and all the mantids were always healthy.

The first thing that put me off when I first saw the site was the amount of animals that were WC. And also, like Mason said (?) everything out of stock leads you to believe that it was in stock once. And with the size of the list, that's a lot of potential animals.

What did it for me was seeing pics of some of the animals that had been purchased. One was a snake that had mouth rot, mites and god knows what else. It died soon after. I couldn't believe (and still cant) that someone would sell an animal and send it out in such a condition.

Until things like that are sorted, and whoever sent those animals out learns some ethics, then the majority of people wont be doing business with you.

For what my opinions worth.

1) Only list healthy, settled animals on the site. If its not in stock/healthy/feeding etc, then don't list it

2) Answer emails within 24 hours. If you're receiving too many emails, get someone else to help go through them.

Hope that helps.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

Vase said:


> The first thing that put me off when I first saw the site was the amount of animals that were WC. And also, like Mason said (?) everything out of stock leads you to believe that it was in stock once. And with the size of the list, that's a lot of potential animals.


Hi Vase, I know some people have an issue with WC stock - it's not ideal, but I'm sure you and most of the forum members are aware of how the exotic pet industry works.

Fact is, most of the pets in pet stores are WC/CF - someone in the industry once told me, "if they don't state it's CB - then it's probably WC".

Karen is passionate about this, and that's why it's clear on the site. In fact Karen is currently writing something on WC/CF/CB to make it clearer to customers what it means.

I can assure you - if the pet in question is listed on the site, it has been available at some point. Lot of people have commented on the "Out of Stock" thing ...and I will be looking at making some changes to help navigate stock available.



Vase said:


> What did it for me was seeing pics of some of the animals that had been purchased. One was a snake that had mouth rot, mites and god knows what else. It died soon after. I couldn't believe (and still cant) that someone would sell an animal and send it out in such a condition.
> 
> Until things like that are sorted, and whoever sent those animals out learns some ethics, then the majority of people wont be doing business with you.


And I wouldn't blame them - I want to get some answers to this to. All I need is the *order number*, so I can investigate.

I'm not as interested in hear-say; I can't go to Karen and say "someone bought a corn snake off you and it was ill" with the number or full name of the customer - I can get some answers; and would be more than happy to post the findings for the RFUK memebers.



Vase said:


> For what my opinions worth.
> 
> 1) Only list healthy, settled animals on the site. If its not in stock/healthy/feeding etc, then don't list it
> 
> ...


1) All animals are healthy. Snakes on site have feeding records - some that aren't feeding or assist feeding (if that's the right termanology) - again, is stated. And reflected in the price. ...obviously, such snakes are for people who know what they're doing - rather than people new to the hobby.

Tbh, it would be ideal to settle every pet - but it's not going to happen any time soon. Not enough room to house that many animals (on the off chance someone buys it - some of the common ones, she does) ...and the keeping costs would make the pets expensive.

It's only the same of going to the local pet store and saying - "can you get XYZ" - they look up that weeks list and order it in for you.

I've heard some people say; "pets are too cheap" - "too good to be true", fact is majority of pets are the from the same wholesalers as everywhere else (as Mason said). From a business point of view - keeping overheads down; means we can pass the saving on to you.

I also think it's important to say - there has been the odd problem, but it is the odd problem - of the 1000s of exotics sold over the last few years; the biggest complaint (to my knowledge) has been replying to e-mail.

Things do go wrong, we had a problem with mites from some WC stock ...I think about a year ago.

This is why I'm asking for the order numbers - so I can look in to it for you.

2) There is someone answering e-mail and you can now send an "order enquiry" ...these get delt with fist. There is now a landline number to call.

Thanks for your opinions - they are worth it :2thumb:

I've set up a thread for some feedback (idea by Jay ;-)
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156982-exotic-pets-co-uk-feedback.html

Cheers, Phil


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## davehuston (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi Phil, 

I have a friend that has been waiting for for 7 weeks now for a refund I will get him to get in touch with you via PM and hopefully you will get it resolved. Congrats btw for being man enough to come here and try and sort things out! 

Many thanks and respect.

Thanks


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## potter556 (Jul 11, 2008)

I've loed at that site before and look ok but would be even better if everything i wanted wasn't 'currently unavailable'.
The site is quite cheap too but is there the quality with the price?
This needs to be addressed if you want it to gain respect in the future.
Please keep me posted on how this is going and maybe ill make a visit and have a look around.
PM me or e-mail me.


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## shaolinmaster (Apr 28, 2008)

Firstly, I would just like to say that you are conducting yourself in the most professional manner with regards to this Phil. The site layout and content I find to be very good. Altough as stated before rather than just having it there for info on out of stock items. A seperate care sheet section could be made? Also maybe a navigation as stated before to show you everything that is currently in stock or available to order (With an Estimated Time Of Arrival).

I hope you get things sorted and by the sounds of it you are going the right way around doing this. 

Keep Us Posted

: victory:


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

davehuston said:


> I have a friend that has been waiting for for 7 weeks now for a refund I will get him to get in touch with you via PM and hopefully you will get it resolved.


Please do mate. There shouldn't be anyone waiting for a refund (to-date). 

We have had problems with replying to e-mail in the past - due to the amount of e-mail we get. However e-mail enquiries are split in to *order*, *sales* and *general*. Order enquiries are dealt with first - then sales and finally the generals.

Every e-mail is replied to, if your mate hasn't had a reply - ask him to ring, just in-case his e-mail didn't get through. There is a landline number on the contact page. 

Cheers, Phil


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

potter556 said:


> I've loed at that site before and look ok but would be even better if everything i wanted wasn't 'currently unavailable'.


If you register you can add an e-mail notification - sends you an e-mail when that page is updated. Stock availability changes weekly.



potter556 said:


> The site is quite cheap too but is there the quality with the price?


We think so mate. Most of the stock sold - is the same stock available to most pet shops.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

shaolinmaster said:


> Firstly, I would just like to say that you are conducting yourself in the most professional manner with regards to this Phil. The site layout and content I find to be very good. Altough as stated before rather than just having it there for info on out of stock items. A seperate care sheet section could be made? Also maybe a navigation as stated before to show you everything that is currently in stock or available to order (With an Estimated Time Of Arrival).


Estimated time is a good idea mate, we spoke to the programmer about this last week. It'll either be upto 10 or 4 working days (although legally companies have 30 days to dispatch goods).

We colour coded the available stock on Friday (on the main list pages), we'll continue to work on making this clearer. 

Thanks for the support. :2thumb:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have not bought from you as I have been put off by the poor reputation, and the constant "out of stock" labels on virtually everything!

I have just had a look at the site and it is still the same, although having a current stock list as you now do is a good idea. 

A couple of observations though - with most species, if you click on them there is no care sheet, just a request for people with experience to contact you (incidentally some time ago you had saharan sand boas on the site, I submitted a care sheet for you to use, yet it never went on the site!)nSurely if you are offering these animals you should have at the very least basic details such as size, temperament, temperatures etc.

Secondly some of your prices are truly extortionate. £255 for a WILD CAUGHT carpet python???? Womas at around £1300, yet you could pick them up for around £600 elsewhere. Hatchling corns at £50+, and the most confusing was the angolan price. On your current stocklist the price is put as £3070, yet if you click on it, it takes you to another part of your site where it lists them as £1999 (rrp £3070). So which price is correct?

All of the suppliers with intenet sites only list what they have in stock. Surely you would be better off by changing the site so that only your current list is on there of what you physically have in stock, and offer a service of locating animals for customers that you don't have available. This would make the site far more user friendly and I would imagine increase sales.


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## philbaker76 (Jul 6, 2008)

ian14 said:


> I have not bought from you as I have been put off by the poor reputation, and the constant "out of stock" labels on virtually everything!
> 
> I have just had a look at the site and it is still the same, although having a current stock list as you now do is a good idea...


Thanks Ian, replied on...
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/156982-exotic-pets-co-uk-feedback-13.html

Cheers, Phil


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