# I was just wondering...



## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

What do keepers of venomous reptiles actually get from keeping them?

I don't mean it in a sarcastic or vindictive way by any means, but I am curious as to what a keeper does/gains from owning a snake that has enough venom to kill the entire household in a single bite?

Do you handle the snakes?

---

I'm a keeper of 'Companions' and reps I can interact with that aren't trying to kill me, so it's quite strange to think like you lot do


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## spiderman (Feb 12, 2005)

It's quite strange to me hearing anyone refer to ANY reptile as a companion :/





Ieuan7 said:


> What do keepers of venomous reptiles actually get from keeping them?
> 
> I don't mean it in a sarcastic or vindictive way by any means, but I am curious as to what a keeper does/gains from owning a snake that has enough venom to kill the entire household in a single bite?
> 
> ...


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Ieuan7 said:


> What do keepers of venomous reptiles actually get from keeping them?
> 
> I don't mean it in a sarcastic or vindictive way by any means, but I am curious as to what a keeper does/gains from owning a snake that has enough venom to kill the entire household in a single bite?
> 
> ...



F**k my life.......


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Do you wonder the same about fish and invert keepers?


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## PinklySmooth (Mar 25, 2013)

Why are the replies to this so stuck up? The OP was curious, they're not being disrespectful to your hobby, its just curiosity...:whistling2:


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

PinklySmooth said:


> Why are the replies to this so stuck up? The OP was curious, they're not being disrespectful to your hobby, its just curiosity...:whistling2:


because it is an absolutely ridiculous thing to ask?

They are no different from what he keeps.

There are no reptiles on earth that enjoy a " cuddle".


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

I think Reptiles are a wonderfully diverse group of animals that fill many a niche venomous snakes included, some venomous snakes are astonishingly beautiful and will always attract interest, many have remarkable adaptations such as nasal and caudal appendages.and some have very interesting behaviour. In many cases ,I'm sure other keepers would agree, any inherent danger is an unfortunate by-product of keeping these animals. so Gaboons, Geckos or Galliwasps they're all the same to a Herper really.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Tim Hallam said:


> I think Reptiles are a wonderfully diverse group of animals that fill many a niche venomous snakes included, some venomous snakes are astonishingly beautiful and will always attract interest, many have remarkable adaptations such as nasal and caudal appendages.and some have very interesting behaviour. In many cases ,I'm sure other keepers would agree, any inherent danger is an unfortunate by-product of keeping these animals. so Gaboons, Geckos or Galliwasps they're all the same to a Herper really.



I forgot,

Tim is probably the only reptile that enjoys a cuddle.....


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Wow there are some seriously depressing people in this section...

Yes, A venomous cobra is VERY different to my turtles, do you actually need me to explain why or can you figure that out?

I got my answer from the tone and snide comments most of you replied with, they are nothing more than trophy animals to you.

Would have been nice to have a decent reply from a mature/experienced keeper who doesnt think taking the morale high-ground over someone on the Internet is cool, but Nevermind then...


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

Ieuan7 said:


> Wow there are some seriously depressing people in this section...
> 
> Yes, A venomous cobra is VERY different to my turtles, do you actually need me to explain why or can you figure that out?
> 
> ...


From what I've seen, there can be a marked difference between keepers that think of their reptiles as 'pets', and those that like to observe their behavior, beauty and even things like scale formation; which will seem quite boring to most keepers.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Ieuan7 said:


> Wow there are some seriously depressing people in this section...
> 
> Yes, A venomous cobra is VERY different to my turtles, do you actually need me to explain why or can you figure that out?
> 
> ...


I am just F**king with you mate.

I was just pointing out we are no different, no matter what you keep, you keep it for the love of the animals and the hobby.


If you were subliminally asking are there people out there that keep Venomous as trophies then Yes of course there are and I know a few ( none of them Licensed) 

how about you come for a visit and decide for yourself ;-)



***EDIT***

IN FACT SCRATCH ALL OF THE ABOVE HAVING READ WHAT YOU POSTED ON THE KOMODO THREAD.

CHANCES ARE YOU WOULD SEE ME AS A TROPHY HUNTER IF YOU CAME HERE ANYWAY.

Peace

Alex.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

You don't seen to know what you're talking about. What you've wrote suggests you believe 'if you can't handle the animal, it's a trophy', 'if it can kill you, it's a trophy', or a combination of the two. If this is correct, then you're delusional, and have no real respect for the animals you keep. If you need to handle them in order to enjoy them, your interest in the animal is purely superficial. 

We keep venomous snakes because they interest us. Exactly the same as someone who's interest is pythons or boas. We know the risks involved, but have decided we're capable of keeping those risks to a minimum - something a few of the large python keepers fail to do!


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> You don't seen to know what you're talking about. What you've wrote suggests you believe 'if you can't handle the animal, it's a trophy', 'if it can kill you, it's a trophy', or a combination of the two. If this is correct, then you're delusional, and have no real respect for the animals you keep. If you need to handle them in order to enjoy them, your interest in the animal is purely superficial.
> 
> We keep venomous snakes because they interest us. Exactly the same as someone who's interest is pythons or boas. We know the risks involved, but have decided we're capable of keeping those risks to a minimum - something a few of the large python keepers fail to do!


First part of your post was abit harsh, aswell as un-true.

I have a chameleon, I do not, and can not handle her as she is hostile by nature.

Does this still mean I have no respect for my reptiles?

ALL my reptiles are well housed, well fed, and have had thousands spent on ensuring they are healthy and happy....Am I still disrespecting my reptiles?

What I meant by 'Companion' is whatever the reader interprets it as...You can read it and think "This guys a joke" or you can read it and think "This guy must really care for them" personally I don't care, as I'm sat here observing my happy reptiles with a smile on my face 

---

The second half of your post was what I was looking for with my original post, thanks


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a perfect critter to handle... if that's your thing... or a dog...











:lol2::lol2:


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## DragonFish66 (Sep 13, 2009)

HABU said:


> image
> 
> 
> a perfect critter to handle... if that's your thing... or a dog...
> ...


[

Theres some mean looking critters there :lol2:


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

I often trawl through the DWA section of the forum and marvel at some of the amazing and beautiful creatures the 'hot' keepers have! Its my dream to one day keep them myself. My reason for keeping snakes is pretty much the same as theirs. I love them, think they're fascinating and absolutely adore observing their behaviour. I just have the added bonus that I can handle mine without risk of death (and I do).

If I were ever in a position to apply for DWAL I would do it in a heartbeat after having a good few handling sessions so I knew how to safely handle for the purposes of cleaning, health checks etc. 

I think the venomous species of snakes are absolutely stunning to look at and have some of the most interesting natural behaviours and as someone mentioned before the scale formations on many of them is so different to NV snakes.

I used to spend loads of time in a couple of local rep shops who kept and sold 'hots' just staring fascinated at them. (they usually had to ask me to leave at closing time)

Don't forget I keep corn snakes and everyone knows they are the most dangerous snakes in the WORLD! :lol2:


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks for the reply 'Chance' 

I seen pictures of someone's Cobra (Sorry can't re-call name) and it was one of the best looking snakes I have ever seen!

For people with venomous; Are venomous snakes more aggressive by nature, or is it no worse than a ball python, only obviously with the added risk? 

And last question; Are you guys able to stock your own Anti-Venom? Or is there any 'Emergency medicine/procedures' in place?


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Ieuan7 said:


> Thanks for the reply 'Chance'
> 
> I seen pictures of someone's Cobra (Sorry can't re-call name) and it was one of the best looking snakes I have ever seen!
> 
> ...


Venomous snakes are rather high in variety, so some may be as docile as a ball, others not so much. Not sure what's more common in the trade, but as an example sea snakes tend to be rather reluctant to bite even if provoked, despite reputedly having one of the stronger venoms (though I don't think anyone keeps those but, y'know...EXAMPLE).
I personally haven't heard of anyone being able to buy their own anti-venom (anti-venin?), but I really wouldn't know. I also don't keep the animals, but when moving is necessary precaution is obviously better than cure, so as far as I'm aware: thick gloves, snake hooks/sticks, sacs and bags to put the snakes in...lots of layers between the snake and your skin!

Just a small, quick question of my own while I'm passing this thread: are ALL venomous snakes dwa, or just dangerous species? Since the native adder is venomous but as far as I'm aware it's venom is not particularly dangerous.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Zerox Z21 said:


> Venomous snakes are rather high in variety, so some may be as docile as a ball, others not so much. Not sure what's more common in the trade, but as an example sea snakes tend to be rather reluctant to bite even if provoked, despite reputedly having one of the stronger venoms (though I don't think anyone keeps those but, y'know...EXAMPLE).
> I personally haven't heard of anyone being able to buy their own anti-venom (anti-venin?), but I really wouldn't know. I also don't keep the animals, but when moving is necessary precaution is obviously better than cure, so as far as I'm aware: thick gloves, snake hooks/sticks, sacs and bags to put the snakes in...lots of layers between the snake and your skin!
> 
> Just a small, quick question of my own while I'm passing this thread: are ALL venomous snakes dwa, or just dangerous species? Since the native adder is venomous but as far as I'm aware it's venom is not particularly dangerous.


Ahh right I see.

Yeah that's what I thought, because the Anti-Venom itself can apparently kill you if administered incorrectly, or if the dosage is slightly off.

And good question - Although, I heard of a few people who have died from adder bites, but my guess would be those who died would have had been frail I.e. Older with weaker immune systems etc.

Iv seen these silly videos on YouTube of people handling cobras VERY casually and it gives keepers,like you guys on here a bad name which is annoying, Even for someone who doesnt keep them, always good to get views/techniques from experienced/mature keepers!


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## Marwolaeth (Oct 29, 2012)

"are ALL venomous snakes dwa, or just dangerous species?"

No . I didnt have to get a license to my gartersnake and dont forget that almost all colubrids have venom


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Marwolaeth said:


> "are ALL venomous snakes dwa, or just dangerous species?"
> 
> No . I didnt have to get a license to my gartersnake and dont forget that almost all colubrids have venom


Thanks. Thought it would be odd, but I've never seen a venomous snake mentioned outside of the dwa section, that I'm aware of. But I'm not in there very often so that might not be saying much.
Never seen them in any shops either though myself.


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Zerox Z21 said:


> Thanks. Thought it would be odd, but I've never seen a venomous snake mentioned outside of the dwa section, that I'm aware of. But I'm not in there very often so that might not be saying much.
> Never seen them in any shops either though myself.


There a re a number of rear fanged snakes that don't require a DWAL, but would seriously ruin your day if you got tagged. Boiga, H.gigas and psammophis sp. are examples.

If you get bitten by an adder it's a good idea to seek medical help/advice pretty sharpish. You probably won't die, but doesn't mean it won't ruin your week... Or that you don't need to be monitored for a few hours.

OP: if, as you claim, your animals aren't just purchased because they can be handled or be companions then it's not too hard to extrapolate the reasons why people keep hots.

Emergency procedures are usually one of the conditions of the liscence. But specifics will vary from council to council. 

Anti-venoms are controlled substances and have a shelf life... Really not much point in having them at home. Seeking professional help will save your skin much more reliably. Having LSTM on speed dial so they can liaise with your local hospital in the event of an 'oh S£&t' moment is probably a smart idea as well.


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

The DWA section does have pretty good standard of visitors and posters and so I'm often on here reading. Though I'll only ever admire from afar, that much is for sure. Still it's a fascinating subject.


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## 1b3 (Aug 17, 2011)

BTW, I have a patternless pine snake for sale and they sometimes share burrows with Crotalus, just saying, £50 to a good home.


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## Ieuan7 (Dec 19, 2012)

Lord Vetinari said:


> There a re a number of rear fanged snakes that don't require a DWAL, but would seriously ruin your day if you got tagged. Boiga, H.gigas and psammophis sp. are examples.
> 
> If you get bitten by an adder it's a good idea to seek medical help/advice pretty sharpish. You probably won't die, but doesn't mean it won't ruin your week... Or that you don't need to be monitored for a few hours.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply mate, very helpful.

I wouldn't want to own a dangerously venomous snake where I lived then (Fairly Rural) we have a decent sized hospital, but I doubt they would stock, and keep stocking anti-venom and with time being very much against you, it wouldn't be fun having to travell for help!


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Ieuan7 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate, very helpful.
> 
> I wouldn't want to own a dangerously venomous snake where I lived then (Fairly Rural) we have a decent sized hospital, but I doubt they would stock, and keep stocking anti-venom and with time being very much against you, it wouldn't be fun having to travell for help!


They probably wouldn't, but helicopters make transporting anti-venom from London or Liverpool a quickish prospect. Anti-venom in most cases isnt the first resort anyway. 

But that wait still wouldn't be fun...


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Zerox Z21 said:


> Venomous snakes are rather high in variety, so some may be as docile as a ball, others not so much. Not sure what's more common in the trade, but as an example sea snakes tend to be rather reluctant to bite even if provoked, despite reputedly having one of the stronger venoms (though I don't think anyone keeps those but, y'know...EXAMPLE).
> I personally haven't heard of anyone being able to buy their own anti-venom (anti-venin?), but I really wouldn't know. I also don't keep the animals, but when moving is necessary precaution is obviously better than cure, so as far as I'm aware: thick gloves, snake hooks/sticks, sacs and bags to put the snakes in...lots of layers between the snake and your skin!
> 
> Just a small, quick question of my own while I'm passing this thread: are ALL venomous snakes dwa, or just dangerous species? Since the native adder is venomous but as far as I'm aware it's venom is not particularly dangerous.


As a general rule, venomous snakes do tend to be more volatile than none venomous. Some can be reasonably calm, but I can't say I know of a species that's as docile as a royal. The odd individual, yes. I've got an adult WDB that's never rattled, never struck, and takes his food like a well trained dog. However, he's still a venomous snake, and is dealt with in the exact same way as his more temperamental neighbours. 

Sea snakes I know little about. I've seen them (on TV) being handled like a none venomous snake, which is pretty silly to honest. One of those bites you, and there's a good chance you'll die. The risks outweigh the benefits many times over. 

Private keepers don't stock antivenom. As already said, it's a controlled substance, and has a shelf life. Administering antivenom isn't as simple as sticking a needle in your arm. Its a serious (and risky) medical procedure, which needs to be administered in the correct dosage, over the correct amount of time, and in the presence of medically trained staff. On top of that, a hospital is unlikely to use the antivenom you have, since they have no idea where it come from, or if it's even the right thing. For all they know, it could be nothing more than a saline solution you bought off the internet.

Not all venomous snakes are DWA, just those which are considered to be medically significant. That includes all front fanged snakes, and certain rear fanged species.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

They are dangerous but its a managed risk carelessness leads to envenomations and if you trawl through bite reports a large percentage of the time people became complacent, of those that do get bitten, and theres a fair few serious envenomations in the UK each year the amount of people that have died is very small in fact one lone case.


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

Anti venom is not a cure all drug, it also worth noting that most anti-venoms don't actually work very well and there are far more species that are widely kept for which anti-venom is not manufactured against. for example the only available anti venom for Naja naja is the Indian polyvalent derived from Indian Naja naja. The only Naja naja available in the UK at present are the Pakistan Black Variant and the Sri Lankan spectacled Variant, Both are still Naja naja but have very different venom composition to the Indian. Unfortunately the antivenom has little effect in neutralising Sri Lankan Naja naja and absolutely no effect in neutralising Pakistan Naja naja. 

regards Tim.


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

People who keep venomous snakes are like people who smoke or ride motor bikes...


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Also Anti venom is in fact venom in another form.

It can have some serious side effects on top of the issue you will be dealing with but you will not know until you have it. Which is why its administration should be done professionally.

I held out (although come close) from having it administered for that reason alone.


Alex.


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## StuOwen86 (Nov 12, 2012)

Just glad if I ever decided to keep venomous snakes I'm only 15 min's from the Tropical hospital in Liverpool lol but I'll stick to just being an avid fan of snakes (NV and Venomous) and watching through the glass and the TV for now, They have some awesome colouring and behaviour..

Stu


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## Woodworm (Aug 26, 2012)

AJ76 said:


> Also Anti venom is in fact venom in another form.
> 
> It can have some serious side effects on top of the issue you will be dealing with but you will not know until you have it. Which is why its administration should be done professionally.
> 
> ...


If you don't mind me asking, what did you get tagged by??


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Woodworm said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what did you get tagged by??



My Wife ;-)


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## Woodworm (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol good answer. Ill give you that one


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

Ieuan7 said:


> First part of your post was abit harsh, aswell as un-true.
> 
> I have a chameleon, I do not, and can not handle her as she is hostile by nature.
> 
> ...


Firtly you say: I'm a keeper of 'Companions' and reps I can interact with that aren't trying to kill me, so it's quite strange to think like you lot do.

Then you say:I have a chameleon, I do not, and can not handle her as she is hostile by nature.

Does this still mean I have no respect for my reptiles?

They controdict each other, you start of by saying "I'm keeper of 'Companions' and reps I can interact with" so you do keep animals that you cant interat with "I have a chameleon, I do not, and can not handle her as she is hostile by nature"
If you keep both whats the piont in the first part and shorly if you keep animals you can not handle you do understand the point in keeping things that you can interact with or are you just proving that you have ni respect for reptiles as you are keeping something you have no interest in?

The initial question sounds rude "I don't see the point in what is you main passion"its a, your pointless comment, if you sat there for 5mins and really thought about with your agressive chameleon you will answer the question your self.


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## Jonathan4 (Nov 19, 2010)

Ieuan7 said:


> Thanks for the reply 'Chance'
> 
> I seen pictures of someone's Cobra (Sorry can't re-call name) and it was one of the best looking snakes I have ever seen!
> 
> ...


 Are pythons more aggressive than a lizards?
There is about as much relavence in the question!

As for anti venom, there isnt much point as my understanding is, doctors are nit alowed to use it unless it passes medical approval after tests and if it passes it wil be kept in liverpool and flown to you. It allso has a short shelf life and is not cheap.


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