# Unusual Yemen Babies or Not ?



## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

My Yemens eggs have hatched recently and there was over 30 and this was their 2nd clutch. 

But the reason of this post is that 2 of the babies are completely different to the rest.

These 2 are a burnt gold colour with yellow surrounds to their eyes, has anybody else seen this before or is it common ?

The last 2 photos have one of their green siblings in the box for colour comparison.


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

Waits for someone to come on who knows about genetics... They are amazing though Mike. 

Liz


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## weeminx (Oct 28, 2006)

could be that they are lacking in the blue pigment.

were the parents related?


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

It would probably be worth keeping them, and seeing if it breeds true(ie if it's a genetic trait), or not. Are they a male and a female?


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

weeminx said:


> could be that they are lacking in the blue pigment.
> 
> were the parents related?


 
The parents were not related to my knowledge and this is their 2nd clutch and this is the first time it has happened in over 60 of their offspring.




Grond said:


> It would probably be worth keeping them, and seeing if it breeds true(ie if it's a genetic trait), or not. Are they a male and a female?


I don't know if they are male and female as I have not sexed them, but 
knowing my luck they will both be the same.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Here's some more photos of one of them from today, when it gets annoyed it turns pink as you can see.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I wonder if they're hypomelanistics.

Are their pupils dark brown or are they ruby/pink?

I wouldn't have thought they were albino, as they seem to have a tinge of the green colour (which is usually melanin + scale structure + yellow pigment).


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## urbanhippie (Mar 20, 2009)

They are amazing!
I held a baby yemen today at the rep shop and oh my! she was gorgeous! :flrt:


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> I wonder if they're hypomelanistics.
> 
> Are their pupils dark brown or are they ruby/pink?
> 
> I wouldn't have thought they were albino, as they seem to have a tinge of the green colour (which is usually melanin + scale structure + yellow pigment).


Their pupils are dark and hard to tell if black or brown as they are tiny, but to be honest I would say they are black perhaps in a few days it might be easier.


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

very odd......but beautiful babies


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## gtm15782 (Aug 24, 2008)

Possible new morph, grow them on and let us know how it goes.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

there was someone on here not so long ago who had adults and babie ssimplier to these!


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> there was someone on here not so long ago who had adults and babie ssimplier to these!


 I wish i knew who that was, you don't mean the guy with the black ones do you? cos I was thinking what would happen if these bred with them :whistling2:


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## mad4frogs (Aug 8, 2006)

Had a quick google search for you regarding morphs & the only ones that came up were:

Hypermelanistic
Pied
Transbald

...although We did find this too 

Ever heard of an albino or clear chameleon my veiled eggs just hatched and one has no pigment and black eyes ? - Yahoo! Answers


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## Sziren (Mar 25, 2008)

Is this the link you were looking for?

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/genetics/227813-hypermelanistic-yemen-chameleon-morphs.html


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## reptilezoo (Jul 6, 2006)

Renfield said:


> My Yemens eggs have hatched recently and there was over 30 and this was their 2nd clutch.
> 
> But the reason of this post is that 2 of the babies are completely different to the rest.
> 
> ...


Do they change colour at all? When I had normal yemens breed, I had babies that were that colour soon after hatching, and also bright purple ones! They soon changed back to green and some went that browny colour, like yours, for a couple of days. They all turned out to be all green, except for one and thus the creation of hypermelanistics! 
Yours look very nice!

Luke


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I hope this makes sense :whistling2:

When they are not basking they are a vale pale olive with browny pink markings, 
when the bask they go a golden yellow brown but when stressed they go pink to purple.

One other thing is that when they hatched a few were browny-purple and cream.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/genetics/227813-hypermelanistic-yemen-chameleon-morphs.html
that was it i think, *whoopS*


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## reptilezoo (Jul 6, 2006)

Renfield said:


> I hope this makes sense :whistling2:
> 
> When they are not basking they are a vale pale olive with browny pink markings,
> when the bask they go a golden yellow brown but when stressed they go pink to purple.
> ...


So they never go green?
Also how old are they?

Luke


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

reptilezoo said:


> So they never go green?
> Also how old are they?
> 
> Luke


Some of them are olive green but more on the brown side of the pigment and they are 3 weeks old now


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

This is really fascinating! I hope that those babies keep the color as they grow up. 

This sort of thing is a lot rarer than albino is. Partly because green color is rarer than black. But for what it's worth, I have seen three smooth green snakes (Opheodrys) that were a medium brown color instead of green. Some budgerigars are also yellow instead of green. Yellow in budgerigars is genetic. I suspect that brown in green snakes is also genetic because all three were captured in a circle with a 100 meter radius over a 20 year period.

I hope those golden yemens are raised and bred. I'm a bit surprised that so few came out of 60 eggs though.

Hopefully the two are a pair. Even if they are a pair, the male should be outbred to unrelated females. This would keep the line vigourous and provide genetics data.

I'd also keep some of the other babies that looked strange. They might be heterozygous for the golden mutant.

My guess is that something is wrong with those lizards' iridophores (Chromatophore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Thanks Paul :2thumb:

I was thinking that something was out of kilter with these and they are still looking the same.

They react a bit like tonic fabric as their colour varies on the angle you view them at.

Now the good part I have a few of them not just 2 as previously thought, I never actually counted them in as I just put them in the viv as and when they hatched and I have 2 weeping figs in the viv with them and this makes them hard to see :blush:

I have also noticed that the ones that are green have pinky fawn colouration patches where they were once white.

I'm looking forward to their first shed to see if this intensifies or not.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

They are so cute, wish i had the chance to breed those but they take so long


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

paulh said:


> This is really fascinating! I hope that those babies keep the color as they grow up.
> 
> This sort of thing is a lot rarer than albino is. Partly because green color is rarer than black. But for what it's worth, I have seen three smooth green snakes (Opheodrys) that were a medium brown color instead of green. Some budgerigars are also yellow instead of green. Yellow in budgerigars is genetic. I suspect that brown in green snakes is also genetic because all three were captured in a circle with a 100 meter radius over a 20 year period.
> 
> ...


Here's a few photos of one of the "Golden" ones and a couple of one of the "green" ones taken this evening 

Golden

































Green


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

The gold ones look a lot 'greener' in these photos. Maybe they'll green up!

Time will tell. Depending on the type of genes involved, it would be interesting to breed them back to each other and see whether they get more gold or whether you get more of the same.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

They went a pale golden olive a while ago, they go more yellow when basking and they still go pink to purple when stressed.

My mobile camera is pretty bad at capturing them, I will try and find my old digital camera and see if that's better at taking a clearer photo.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Cool Khaki Yemens:2thumb:.Hope they keep it.Ands it proves genetic for ya!:no1:.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Here's some photos taken this evening, I hope these give a better indication of their colour.

The last one is of a few of them in their viv :2thumb:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

The later photos must have been taken under incandescent light to make the skin color so red.

Looks like the babies are greening up. We'll just have to watch and see where they stop.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I have now found my digital camera and it is charging, so I will take some more photos tomorrow in the daytime. 
Hopefully these will be better as thier true colouration is not being captured properly.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Here's the photos taken with my digital camera as previously mentioned


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## reptilezoo (Jul 6, 2006)

They look like they have greened quite a lot. I'll be surprised if they don't turn out to be normal imo.
Lovely chams though

Luke


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

*UPDATE*

The yemens have now shed so I thought I'd share a few photos of the Golden ones, I hope you agree that it was worth the wait.

They are a tad shy too by the way so bear with them.


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

Now i like that, thats start the ball rolling, i place a bid of a fiver lol.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

They are very pretty chams, it looks like some of them may grown up to flush different colors so keep an eye on them.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

KJ Exotics said:


> Now i like that, thats start the ball rolling, i place a bid of a fiver lol.


Cheers Kieron i'm glad you like them, but gonna pass on that fiver if you don't mind :lol2:


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## ditta (Sep 18, 2006)

they certainly aint normal are they????? just like their dad:lol2:

sorry mike i loves ya really:flrt:

and the gorgeous golden chams:flrt:


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## litminx (May 25, 2009)

aw thay are so cute :flrt:i want one if only i had the set up :censor:


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I'm wondering if their siblings may carry the genes that caused this, anybody have any ideas on this, please ?


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Renfield said:


> I'm wondering if their siblings may carry the genes that caused this, anybody have any ideas on this, please ?


The babies are looking good! 

There are several possibilities:
1. The golden brown color is caused by a pair of recessive mutant genes.
2. The golden brown color is caused by a single dominant or codominant mutant gene.
3. The golden brown color is caused by additive effects from the actions of several genes.
4. The golden brown color is caused by something in the environment.
5. The golden brown color is caused by something else.

If number one is the correct explanation, then some of the other babies could be carrying a golden gene paired with a normal gene. As I recall, some of the other babies were brownish purple and cream when they hatched but turned green fairly soon. These are the ones I would consider most likely to be carrying the gene.

If one of the other explanations is the correct one, then it would be extremely difficult to duplicate those babies without the two golden babies and their parents.

Good luck with them.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

paulh said:


> The babies are looking good!
> 
> There are several possibilities:
> 1. The golden brown color is caused by a pair of recessive mutant genes.
> ...


Many thanks for this Paul 

I do not have the room for all of the babies as there are over 30 and many of them exhibit the yellow/pink variations depending on them basking, only a handfull are this bright.

So I will have to sell them on when they are a bit older as these are now only a month old.


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## gary1621 (Apr 28, 2009)

Any updates?


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## lou1981 (Jun 28, 2008)

*yemen*

how much do u want 4 them?


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

lou1981 said:


> how much do u want 4 them?


 
You have a pm lou1981

And yes I will be selling them


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

Sorry been longer than I said, Here's a load of photos taken today of a selection of them 

There's still no sign of any black pigment in any of them, yet.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

*UPDATE*

I have decided to sell these, here's the link

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/genetics/309722-unusual-yemen-babies-not.html

And here's Photos from Today


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## Nixehface (Sep 30, 2009)

They are so sweet


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

What's their colour like now? Any recent pics?


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