# Hamm Tort. Bus...Who's on it?!...



## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Just curious guys, I havent really read or followed the Hamm road trip that is coming up, but....................................

Is anyone planning on getting a tort from there?...If you do, could you answer a couple of questions for me please-

What Sub-species?...Size?...Weight?

How much you have paid?

Country of Origin?

What type of enclosure will you be using?

What diet/food you plan to offer your tort?


This is a serious thread, I am just trying to gather tort data...thanks in advance. If you would rather pm the details, not a problem there, cheers: victory:...T.T.8)


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

T.T. You have hermans and horsefields over there which are the main ones they sell ranging from €40 upwards. I didn't pay much attention to any of the others though but I didn't see a tort over €180 the only problem is the CITES paperwork if they don't have it you will find they are the cheaper end but some are selling cheap with CITES.


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## ade (Mar 7, 2007)

is it right that you have to have cites to bring it back in this country


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Any tortoise listed under cites needs to have paperwork, wherever you buy it - if you buy it in the UK it needs the exact same paperwork called "Article 10", this states the sellers name and address, the country of origin, confirms that the species is Captive Bred, and states what you can do with it. It's just a piece of paper you get with the tortoise (or some species of snakes / lizards that are also listed), and is not specific to buying at Hamm or anything.

Don't think I can help with the original question, although going to Hamm, it's not by coach, and I won't be buying any tortoises there.

I have seen almost no tortoises advertised in advance, so I doubt anyone has actually prebooked and paid in advance, or would know the size/weight.. most people just go along on the day and see what's available.


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Athravan said:


> Any tortoise listed under cites needs to have paperwork, wherever you buy it - if you buy it in the UK it needs the exact same paperwork called "Article 10", this states the sellers name and address, the country of origin, confirms that the species is Captive Bred, and states what you can do with it. It's just a piece of paper you get with the tortoise (or some species of snakes / lizards that are also listed), and is not specific to buying at Hamm or anything.
> 
> Don't think I can help with the original question, although going to Hamm, it's not by coach, and I won't be buying any tortoises there.
> 
> I have seen almost no tortoises advertised in advance, so I doubt anyone has actually prebooked and paid in advance, or would know the size/weight.. most people just go along on the day and see what's available.


My bad:blush: :blush:, maybe I didnt explain myself thoroughly in my 1st post...

I meant, when you return with your tort/torts.,regarding the questions I asked, I did not mean any pre-arrangement...

PS. *Athravan*, if you have any left over pennies and your driving through Kent, give me a shout :lol2:...T.T.8)


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## jonnydotcom (Sep 8, 2006)

not wanting to sound funny but when i asked about what torts were available at Hamm i got slated by some members on here for not buying from the UK breeders. 

it got that bad i ended up askin a mod to lock the thread.

so all i'm going to say is if i do decide to get a tort from Hamm i aint tellin no-one on ere cos it just gets nasty.


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm curious why You've made this thread TT.
But i'll be honest. Before i got my horsfield i did do research on a number of different tortoises such as horsfields, hermans, and red foots.

Now i am going to hamm. Not with the intention of buying a tortoise. But they are such eye catching creatures that i wont dismiss the possibility that i MAY end up coming home with one. I'd be keeping it in a tortoise table, possibly buying a temporary one from you, or building one. I havent decided yet. But if i did get one it'd be one of the three i named above as i know about their housing and feeding habits where as i dont about the others.


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

jonnydotcom said:


> not wanting to sound funny but when i asked about what torts were available at Hamm i got slated by some members on here for not buying from the UK breeders.
> 
> it got that bad i ended up askin a mod to lock the thread.
> 
> so all i'm going to say is if i do decide to get a tort from Hamm i aint tellin no-one on ere cos it just gets nasty.


Yes, I seem to remember that one :blush:...sorry old boy, if I upset you, a thread can go pear shaped at the drop of a hat.

By keeping the data that I seek to yourself, you are not helping me, which is your choice, I am not offended by that, if you change your mind, let me know...T.T.8)


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Trice said:


> I'm curious why You've made this thread TT.
> But i'll be honest. Before i got my horsfield i did do research on a number of different tortoises such as horsfields, hermans, and red foots.
> 
> Now i am going to hamm. Not with the intention of buying a tortoise. But they are such eye catching creatures that i wont dismiss the possibility that i MAY end up coming home with one. I'd be keeping it in a tortoise table, possibly buying a temporary one from you, or building one. I havent decided yet. But if i did get one it'd be one of the three i named above as i know about their housing and feeding habits where as i dont about the others.


Are mate, dont be so suspicious of this thread, I have no sinister plan, I would just like to gather some data on torts, and what better way to do that, than through this forum.

Because of your request on my enclosures, I had a feeling you would be bringing back a tort, that is none of my business, I may not agree with imports, but I cannot control other peoples wants...

I would just like to gather info. nothing more...T.T.8)


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Terrific tortoise said:


> Are mate, dont be so suspicious of this thread, I have no sinister plan, I would just like to gather some data on torts, and what better way to do that, than through this forum.
> 
> Because of your request on my enclosures, I had a feeling you would be bringing back a tort, that is none of my business, I may not agree with imports, but I cannot control other peoples wants...
> 
> I would just like to gather info. nothing more...T.T.8)


I was just getting a backup plan incase i decided i would


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

Terrific tortoise














Must have miread something somewhere but we dont run "tortoise Busses" or is this just another UK breder geting upset at the though of someone buying a tort cheaperthan they are selling them

There will not be hundreds of tortoises bought back and no one will have any animal on board without the proper paperwork


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

tarantulabarn said:


> Terrific tortoise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are so off the mark with your post it is unreal????????!!!!!!!!!

Read through this thread once again please mate, I merely used the word bus (not coach) because years ago on this forum I had a hilarious thread going about T.T.'s bus thread. I admit that I saw a couple of threads with hamm coach 1 an 2, so thought I would use that theme to catch the eye.

No offence towards your coach trips in the slightest my friend, the only thing you may be correct on is what you said at the start of your post...Which was..."I may have misread"...

You have misread...T.T.8)

PS Heres the famous T.T. Bus Driver pic...enjoy...


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Trice said:


> I was just getting a backup plan incase i decided i would


Backup plans are always favourable : victory:...T.T.8)


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## gtm (Jan 23, 2008)

I like to know what range of tortoises (& prices) are available at Hamm as well.


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Terrific tortoise said:


> Backup plans are always favourable : victory:...T.T.8)


Yep mate. I do hope to come back with something new, it might be a leopard gecko, might be a snake. but there is a slim possiblity it'll be a tort, and if it is i know i'd give it the best life i could possibly give it.

Aren't you going hamm? or not your kinda thing mate?

Btw. that pic of you is scary


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

LOL

Busses, coaches, all the same...

Only one trip being talked about on rfuk right now that involves hamm and anything like a bus or coach, and thats ours.

Maybe we are at fault for not being able to mind read that you refering to an unreferenced thread from years ago, but you must admit, it _appears _your refering to the current trips.

Anyways, I am sure you will know, as will others, that our trip is not a free for all, there are rules etc.

Still, to late to go a fishing tonight, so heres hoping you get loads of data !


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Trice said:


> Yep mate. I do hope to come back with something new, it might be a leopard gecko, might be a snake. but there is a slim possiblity it'll be a tort, and if it is i know i'd give it the best life i could possibly give it.
> 
> Aren't you going hamm? or not your kinda thing mate?
> 
> Btw. that pic of you is scary


I would love to do hamm, just for the experience, but work/family/tort commitments say otherwise, maybe one day??

Although I did request to be seated in between *Diablo and Faith*, but nobody got back to me on that one!!!:crazy::blush:

As for that pic...well...I had a mouthful of food, a dodgy beard, bit paunchy, and I was *hamming* it up for the camera : victory:...T.T.8)


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

purejurrasic said:


> LOL
> 
> Busses, coaches, all the same...
> 
> ...


*Tony* me ole china, I have not got the rod out, as I said in the OP...This is a serious thread...I would like to collect data from people who buy a tort from hamm, as a future reference...

Nothing more, nothing less...T.T.8)


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Terrific tortoise said:


> I would love to do hamm, just for the experience, but work/family/tort commitments say otherwise, maybe one day??
> 
> Although I did request to be seated in between *Diablo and Faith*, but nobody got back to me on that one!!!:crazy::blush:
> 
> As for that pic...well...I had a mouthful of food, a dodgy beard, bit paunchy, and I was *hamming* it up for the camera : victory:...T.T.8)


September youre coming, i demand such an action


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## melanie (Jan 18, 2007)

Diablo said:


> T.T. You have hermans and horsefields over there which are the main ones they sell ranging from €40 upwards. I didn't pay much attention to any of the others though but I didn't see a tort over €180 the only problem is the CITES paperwork if they don't have it you will find they are the cheaper end but some are selling cheap with CITES.


 
when mark went to hamm, he saw loads of tortoises and not one seller was selling them without cites, they are not allowed in there without cites paperwork as it is illegal to sell them without it!


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## ukgeckos (Apr 11, 2007)

every tort i saw out there had cites, most were youngsters any very few above 5 yr old. i did see some terrible torts there in very very bad shape


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

"Can I sit next to you girl"...




Serious bump though...T.T.8)


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

ello TT me ole mucker !

for simple research reasons, I will complie a list of species and numbers for you that were declared.

This info wont be specific to any one or list single prices, but a range.

Hope that will help.


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

purejurrasic said:


> ello TT me ole mucker !
> 
> for simple research reasons, I will complie a list of species and numbers for you that were declared.
> 
> ...


Most excellent mate : victory:...It's not as specific as I would have wanted, but its a start in the right direction. I am hoping that more specific details will emerge in time...cheers...T.T.8)


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

No probs, 

We did not collect full details as full responsibilty lay with the purchaser, but at least you can gain an idea of how many were brought back. 

Its only possible to do this as we have worked with Animal welfare with regards to doing what we can to ensure compliance with the rules, and these are some of the figures we are to supply them with.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Terrific tortoise said:


> Just curious guys, I havent really read or followed the Hamm road trip that is coming up, but....................................
> 
> Is anyone planning on getting a tort from there?...If you do, could you answer a couple of questions for me please-
> 
> ...


1. Hermans (Probably the corn snake of Torts)
2. Looked for an 06/07. Purchased an 07.
3. Didn't have any ref to weight but will weigh once I have new digi-scales.
4. Depending on year they were 60-100E. Paid 50 (through haggling).
5. CB Germany.
6. Tort Table.
7. Garden 'weeds' including dandilion/daisy aswell as some simple greens like baby kale. Probably add a tort specific brand diet but to be honest I'm not big on them. Might give it a bash though.

Should add I asked all the vendors if they had paperwork. None didn't have A10 papers aswell as photo ID and a small printed info sheet with both common and latin.

I have to say the vast majority of the Torts there looked fab. One or two looked a bit iffy but I think that was more envirnomental. My wee guy was the most active in the display and I did have a wee body check before I agreed to take him. He's really chirped up in the last couple days.


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

purejurrasic said:


> No probs,
> 
> We did not collect full details as full responsibilty lay with the purchaser, but at least you can gain an idea of how many were brought back.
> 
> Its only possible to do this as we have worked with Animal welfare with regards to doing what we can to ensure compliance with the rules, and these are some of the figures we are to supply them with.


I'm all ears *tony*, thanks in advance...T.T.8)


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

Robbie said:


> 1. Hermans (Probably the corn snake of Torts)
> 2. Looked for an 06/07. Purchased an 07.
> 3. Didn't have any ref to weight but will weigh once I have new digi-scales.
> 4. Depending on year they were 60-100E. Paid 50 (through haggling).
> ...


Nice one, your lucky No. 1...Thanks for this, please keep me updated in the future.

Just a side note, I do not want to turn this thread into anything else, other than tort data...But you may want to go to the shelled section, and ask the good tort keepers there opinions (there a friendly bunch) about a couple of points in your post- Daisys, Baby kale, Tort specific brand diet...cheers...T.T.8)


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

TBH. there were a few torts, but not many horsfields or hermanns.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

There were some nice Mata Matas!! Turtle offcourse.


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## chris_walton (Dec 20, 2007)

hey tt long time no see

there were quite a few diff species

aldabrans E2600
chacos E2000
reds E60+
yellows E70+
sulcatas cant remember
kinixys didnt see a price
pancakes didnt see them just heard they were there
tgb E40+
thh E40+
stars E100+
think thats it all the ones i saw had paperwork and were cb in germany most of the stands had photos of adults and enclosures
there were also different terrapin species most of which i didnt have a clue what they were but they started at around E10 and went up in price the bigger the animal
my overall impretion was quite good i did expect to see alot of imports and some dodgy torts but it was quite the opposit

hope this helps i did put some pics up on sw of torts if you want a ganders

chris


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## gtm (Jan 23, 2008)

chris_walton said:


> hey tt long time no see
> 
> there were quite a few diff species
> 
> ...


tgb - Testudo Graeca Buxtoni - aka the caspian tortoise? Did you notice any other sub species of the Greek Spur Thigh family?


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## chris_walton (Dec 20, 2007)

there was so much going and i can only take so much in at one time i didnt notice any of the others


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## Testudo Man (Aug 3, 2005)

chris_walton said:


> hey tt long time no see
> 
> there were quite a few diff species
> 
> ...


Hey chris, yep I know:blush: I should really try to post on SW more often:blush:
Thanks for this, I will checkout your thread...cheers...T.T.8)


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

did anyone see how much they were asking for aldabrans? I forgot to ask! :whistling2:


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

sorry im such a noob, i just realised E2600 meant 2600 euros...i was like...hmm what are these crazy codes for! lol...thanks!
:bash:


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## chris_walton (Dec 20, 2007)

dont worry about it i have crazy blond moments sometimes

did you go to hamm boomslang were you on coach 2


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

I most certainly did, and yes coach 2 it was, were you?:whistling2:


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## chris_walton (Dec 20, 2007)

coach 1 lol

but i think i seen you at the ashton stop think you asked me where to find steve when were picking up at the service station


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

aha! aw you shoulda shouted my name at me! lol

just read the first post and realised it applies to me!

I bought a c.b. leopard tortoise, about 2 inches in length for 80 euros.

He's being kept in a 3'x2'x2' vivarium with full spectrum UV lighting and a spotlight at one end, being fed on hay and a mixture of greens, herbs and a small amount of fruit now and then, with nutrabol (d.w. not too much nutrabol!) just ordered a couple of seed mixes too from shelled warriors, and shall be getting their high fibre seed mix too!


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Ok, have just finished compiling the data on animals brought back on the Hamm coaches, and relating to torts, this is what I have come up with. Do remember though, this is only what has been declared, wouldnt have thought anyone tried anything on with all the attention, but who knows !

4 Spurthighs ave 145 euros
4 Hermans ae 158 euros
2 Leopards ave 160 euros
1 Marginated ave 60 euros

Torts accounted for 1.6% of reptiles brought back in number and 1.99% of value spent

Hope thats of some help !


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

oooh that's pretty interesting, is that the average spent per tortiose?


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

boomslang40 said:


> oooh that's pretty interesting, is that the average spent per tortiose?


yes, taken from the customs declarations.

I would have expected to see quite a few more.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

bloody hell TT...



Terrific tortoise said:


>


 
you're not the 3rd Bushwacker are you??










Bushwhackers, WWF Wrestling Superstars


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## boomslang40 (Nov 4, 2006)

purejurrasic said:


> yes, taken from the customs declarations.
> 
> I would have expected to see quite a few more.


yeah me too actually! especially as there were quite a few available at good prices, I mean hatchling redfoots at 79 Euros! and indian stars at 200 Euros, i thought there woulda been quite a few on board!


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