# upside down gecko



## tyrannosaurus (Dec 14, 2010)

right then lets get this out in the open. is it safe for a gecko to be layed on its back? i have heard many controversial arguments about this. now i know the gecko doesnt want to be turned upside down and i dont want people experimenting with their pets to see the results but what, if any are the dangers of laying a gecko on its back. i want to hear from some experienced keepers on this subject and not a load of hocus pocus thats been passed on by word of mouth or internet 'hecspurts'. if u can back ur theory up with proof then thats even better. 
any vets out there may be able to help. 
otherwise videos, personal experiences or scripture written by a reliable source will be sufficient.
fire away.


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## JackR (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm no keeper.. but i'm gonna go on how vets perform operations... surely sometimes they need to be on their back.


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

Not official but this seems to be like hatchling green tree pythons, their very delicate and if you handle them even slightly ruffely they can suffer from spinal kinks. However some people argue backk saying why don't they damage themselves when they capture and constrict prey? The reason they don't damage themselves is because they do it of there own acord! 
I think the same applys to any animal if the gecko wants to go on to it's back or hang upside down it will do it. But if the keeper is forcing the gecko to go on his back not only can this cause extreme stress to the gecko but also be detrimental to the gecko's health.


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## tyrannosaurus (Dec 14, 2010)

JackR said:


> I'm no keeper.. but i'm gonna go on how vets perform operations... surely sometimes they need to be on their back.


yes but vets supply oxygen to the lungs. so without this is the gecko in danger?


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## JackR (Dec 14, 2010)

tyrannosaurus said:


> yes but vets supply oxygen to the lungs. so without this is the gecko in danger?


eh, maybe, i allways thought that the lungs needed to be recompressed by the rib muscles in order to clear out the Co2.. and not sure if them being on their back can affect them..

Maybe i'll shutup


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

JackR said:


> I'm no keeper.. but i'm gonna go on how vets perform operations... surely sometimes they need to be on their back.


Thats due to being anesthetized



tyrannosaurus said:


> yes but vets supply oxygen to the lungs. so without this is the gecko in danger?


Not just 02 but also being oxygenated by a bag valve mask, ie hand ventilation for short ops or a mechanical ventilator for longer ones.

Not sure on reps but in humans they also use paralyzing agents and not just sedation.

I don't buy this no diaphragm rumour as if an animal has an alternative method to allowing for gaseous exchange then why would it be flawed by something as simple as gravity when up side down?

Again the thoracic rib structure may be different but they still poses intercostal and ancillary muscles that allow for a change in thoracic pressure, why wouldn't this work when upside down?


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## chrisw (Apr 13, 2009)

squamates (lizards, snakes and tuatara) don't have diaphragms and breathing is caused by the ribs contracting/relaxing to create the negative/positive air flows required for respiring. after an inhalation, the reptile relaxes it's lungs, essentially holding it's breath to extract oxygen/get rid of carbon dioxide. 

squamates (except for varanids) cannot move and breathe at the same time due to the motion of the ribs whilst moving. this is why reptiles work on short bursts of movement and long periods of rest. varanids overcame this problem by inflating the throat whilst running. 

so as long as the rib cage is not restricted, a squamate can _theoretically_ (I stress this word) lie on its back and suffer no serious problems. however, no animal would like to be held in an unnatural position and this would obviously lead to stress and cause other physiological/pyschological issues for the animal. which is why animals are sedated by vets before being put into an unnatural position.


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

chrisw said:


> squamates (lizards, snakes and tuatara) don't have diaphragms and breathing is caused by the ribs contracting/relaxing to create the negative/positive air flows required for respiring. after an inhalation, the reptile relaxes it's lungs, essentially holding it's breath to extract oxygen/get rid of carbon dioxide.
> 
> squamates (except for varanids) cannot move and breathe at the same time due to the motion of the ribs whilst moving. this is why reptiles work on short bursts of movement and long periods of rest. varanids overcame this problem by inflating the throat whilst running.
> 
> so as long as the rib cage is not restricted, a squamate can _theoretically_ (I stress this word) lie on its back and suffer no serious problems. however, no animal would like to be held in an unnatural position and this would obviously lead to stress and cause other physiological/pyschological issues for the animal. which is why animals are sedated by vets before being put into an unnatural position.


Wikipedia couldn't have put it better.

:lol2:

Maybe this is why AWD are often posed with no ill effects?


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## chrisw (Apr 13, 2009)

i used my own knowledge thanks. :lol2:

it's simple biology.


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## Slurm (Jun 6, 2008)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Wikipedia couldn't have put it better.
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> Maybe this is why AWD are often posed with no ill effects?


water dragons can hold their breathe for stupid amounts of time so dont bring them into this.


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## tyrannosaurus (Dec 14, 2010)

we still haven't cracked this 1 yet. were are all the boffins with great big brains. ive heard views about this before from certain members who i would like to say their part. i just cant remember who they are. half the regulars have disappeared. good work up to now but we need proof people.


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## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

I rekon it's ok cuz my tokay luvz bein on his bak he always smilein at meh.


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## chrisw (Apr 13, 2009)

tyrannosaurus said:


> we still haven't cracked this 1 yet. were are all the boffins with great big brains. ive heard views about this before from certain members who i would like to say their part. i just cant remember who they are. half the regulars have disappeared. *good work up to now but we need proof people*.


 
what proof are you looking for? i think the general trend is that we acknowledge that this behaviour can cause stress but there hasn't been much research on this type of behaviour as lizards rarely sit on their backs. a lizard could suffer breathing problems if it wedges itself under rocks or in burrows during natural behaviour. if the lizard was suffering, it would right itself as this is the natural response. if it doesn't then there are underlying health problems.


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