# The truth?



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

How hard are the RSPCA pushing their "no reptiles" campaign, im interested in knowing because I see it talked about regularly, but never reallly see much direct action from them, or anywhere they have said it, I have read their policy saying reptiles dont make good pets and calling for people to think carefully before buying one. im not asking for people to jump down my throat and shout id just like to know facts.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

I'm curious too.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I have never personally seen any anti reptile propaganda from any group other than the links/pictures posted on this very site. I think the RSPCA get alot of stick as people seem to think they are supposed to be experts in every animal kept as pets (which they maybe should be if they are going to investigate claims of cruelty against these animals). In reality, the general everday RSPCA worker at your local centre is probably as much an animal lover as you and me and probably has pets of their own and I think should not be demonised by every person who believes everything they read. My opinion.:grin1:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats what I think as well, the inspectors and rescue centre workers do their job because they love animals, not because they have some hidden agenda.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*There is no doubt.........*

.....that the landbased RSPCA inspectors are not out to get 'you', to be read in universal terms and not specifically geared to one reader. Most will join with a view to improving the health and welfare of all animals.

The main battle lies with those to whom the main amount of funding actually lands up with and that is the heart of the RSPCA, the headquarters.

Would you all feel much better if the RSPCA were to have placquards scattered around that stated 'WE ARE AGAINST THE KEEPING OF REPTILES AND AS SUCH OUR MAIN PLAN IS TO CEASE THE KEEPING OF THEM WITH A FULL FRONTAL BAN'..?

This would of course have more of an immediate impact upon those whom disbelieved that the RSPCA are against reptile keeping.

But the fact is that, the RSPCA can not do this - its too obvious guys.

So that is why there is the hidden agenda.

If perhaps the RSPCA HQ were more willing to train their inspectorate correctly in the handling of reptiles and other exotics then perhaps we would not be as concerned both politically and legislationally with them as a charity.

But they do not.

Do they listen as a main body to the knowledge of others?

No.

Political battles are not against land based crews, they are against those that do have the political hidden agendas, and they are the ones that are the 'pushers' of legislation to make life more difficult for those whom just wish to keep something a tad more exotic than a Rabbit, Guinea Pig, Cat or a Dog.

The landbased crews, must because of their bosses put up with the demonisation.

I have met some very good RSPCa inspectors whom are willing to learn and listen - and l have met some that do not wish to be seen as 'willing to learn'.

This is a charity who has political concerns, interests, wishes and desires.

In the main, perhaps the underlying cause is more frightening than the all too visible blue uniform represents? But then that is not visible, hence why it is refered to as the hidden agenda.

If you wait for things to happen, and they do not, then you think there never was/is a problem, if they happen, you all want to know why something was not done about it in the first place. 

A catch 22, do we politically battle them? Or Not?

If we do, is it wrong, if we do not, is it right?

R
PKL


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Thre truth is that the RSPCA commisioned reports some 5 or 6 years ago claiming that reptiles were impossible animals to keep. The report was called "Far From Home" and although discredited the report is still available and makes up most of the RSPCA's stance on the keeping of reptiles. 

The RSPCA have also stated that it is impossible to keep reptiles alive in captivity for longer than a year. I cannot remember if this is in the same report though.

It is also a fact that the RSPCA inspectorate were in the process of working out a Memorandum Of Understanding with the FBH with regard to the keeping of reptiles and it was the RSPCA that put a stop to it. I very much doubt you will find this written down anywhere, it was more of a case of you had to be there... But I am sure Chris will give you the details if asked.

Andy, if this is the only place on the internet that you have seen anti RSPCA information linked to, it would be a good idea to have a look at the Livefood forums and the CViewmedia forums ( if CView still exists )... and obviously the Self Help Group although that has been linked to on here so you have probably already seen it.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

the reason I ask this is because on the site they have lists of all their active campaigns and they dont even mention reptiles that I can see. 

But all the time we hear the RSPCA is fighting against us and our hobby, but they dont seem to be publically fighting it, other than sly articles and remarks, but they are very outspoken with their other campaigns so why not this one??


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

SiUK said:


> the reason I ask this is because on the site they have lists of all their active campaigns and they dont even mention reptiles that I can see.
> 
> But all the time we hear the RSPCA is fighting against us and our hobby, but they dont seem to be publically fighting it, other than sly articles and remarks, but they are very outspoken with their other campaigns so why not this one??


When the "Far From Home" report was released, it was an "Active Campaign". It no longer is active I guess, but it has not been replaced and therefore constitutes their stance on reptile keeping. They are against it.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Also remember that with the AWA and their very loud voice within the AWA, they no longer need to actively campaign against animals.


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## jamie_coxon (Jul 18, 2007)

if there out to ban reptiles how come theres some in rescue centres???? not so long ago i rang up enquiring about a dog, ended up on the subject of reptiles an the person i spoke to was very nice and knowledgable to an extent. and they even had a small selection in the rescue centre


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

Any links to the far from home campaign? I could do with a laugh.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

ratboy said:


> Andy, if this is the only place on the internet that you have seen anti RSPCA information linked to, it would be a good idea to have a look at the Livefood forums and the CViewmedia forums ( if CView still exists )... and obviously the Self Help Group although that has been linked to on here so you have probably already seen it.


I only use this forum now dont have time for any others :grin1:

I have no doubt they are against reptile keeping but I also dont like the people who write "DONT TAKE IT TO RSPCA THEY ARE ALL TW*TS". In my opinion yes the RSPCA dont like us, and they would prefer us not to keep pets but at the end of the day, they do help alot of animals and are not the stupid,evil,cant wait to put dogs down people some make them out to be. They should be challenged in their views and political aims but shouldnt be disregarded entirely.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

jamie_coxon said:


> if there out to ban reptiles how come theres some in rescue centres???? not so long ago i rang up enquiring about a dog, ended up on the subject of reptiles an the person i spoke to was very nice and knowledgable to an extent. and they even had a small selection in the rescue centre


very rare mate. They VERY PUBLICALLY state that they are against the keeping of all exotics and have caused all sorts of fuss in the reptile trade. I believe 8 of their directors (correct me if the number is wrong) are also the directors of Animal Aid who oppose ALL animal keeping.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Bit by bit*

Bit by bit, the best way to disassemble anything.

Try and attack it full on without preparation, will come back with huge losses.

Ask Habu about non prepared frontal assault, he may enlighten you.

The RSPCA would need to slowly chip away at the foundations first , test the waters and then wait.

Seiges, can sometimes be long winded or short lived. Its all depends upon the defence. Good defence and the attack will be side winded all the time, poor defence and the gates will break.

But if you want to win a long battle, you destroy allies to the main body first. Therefore taking away more defenses all the time, chip by chip, bit by bit.

Another alternative is to wait, if you have the finances to wait and the resources, that is what you do.

The reptile community is a hard one to really conquer flat out, it is the most politically staunch fraternity out there. 

The RSPCA are in the waiting process, and they will wait and do as said chip away, a few small skirmishes at a time, a victory here, a victory there, a loss there, a defeat there. 

Who is stronger in will, will win.

How big is our army? Not very.

How big is our belief?

Well we will see, wont we?

Why relate all this in military terms?

Simple, we are preparing for a battle, whether it is a seige or an all out frontal defence, only time will tell.

But we are at war.

R
PKL


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

As said they are no longer out to ban reptile keeping outright... they no longer need to be.

The RSPCA have been pushing for snakes that can get above 2 Metres in length put on the DWA for what 7-8 years now ? It has now changed to Boas and Pythons that get above 2 Metres... but at the time it was any snake that was capable of getting to 2 Metres or more.

Think about that... 2 Metres is six feet. So had they got their way then it would include North American rat snakes, Taiwanese Beauty snakes, Royal pythons, Corn snakes ... the wording was specifically "Capable of reaching 2 Metres or More" ... that on it's own would have wiped out the snake industry. Can you imagine having a corn snake and Royal python on the DWA ?

Now they are saying Boas and Pythons that are capable of reaching 2 Meters... sorry guys... but that still includes your Royals !!!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Stuff missed from the RSPCA press release amidst talk of people moving...

*Pythons and boa constrictors: *

The RSPCA has long campaigned to have these snakes, which can grow to more than two metres in length, added to the list of animals which must be licensed under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. But they were not among the species recently added to the Act. 

As well as being potentially dangerous, these jungle snakes are difficult to look after properly as they get bigger, needing a large, heated vivarium with environmental enrichment such as a pool in which to immerse themselves and branch-work, and an appropriate diet.

*We understand that Defra will be undertaking a full consultation on the Act in the near future and the RSPCA will again make its concerns known," added Mr Thomas. 
* 

No mention of species ... the 2M thing is now just an aside... they want as many Boas and Pythons as they can get on the DWA.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Fangio said:


> Any links to the far from home campaign? I could do with a laugh.


Follow the link below...

The report is call "Far from home. Reptiles that suffer and die in captivity"

RSPCA || Wildlife: reports and resources


And what the FBH think of the report

The Federation of British Herpetologists


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Andy said:


> I only use this forum now dont have time for any others :grin1:


I am beginning to see why this is the only place you have seen the information


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

The "Far From Home" report does state that it is animals taken from teh wild, wild caught stock that then end up suffering and dying.

We know this as we generally refuse WC stock because fo the parasites and diseases.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

how different things are. here, if a kid expresses an interest in animals be it bugs or herps, fish whatever, it's looked well upon. school kids actually go out on feild trips and catch herps and things and keep them in their class. the emphasis is on proper care and study rather than the cruelty of keeping animals that many wackos spout. here, a young person who likes nature and animals is held in a good light. "they got their mind on something" is a common feeling. even the government( dept of natural resources) has nature walks and have people collect things. it's all good. like anywhere, we have some radical animal rights groups, but they are by no means a mainstream entity. i think the activists should be more concerned about development than messing with qualified, careing people who keep animals. as the song goes, 'the day paradise put up a parking lot". if you keep animals here, nearly everyone considers that a plus in your character. don't pay me any mind here. it just flabbergasts me how things are so different. don't believe all the media, they are just looking for sensationalism. next, after they ban reptiles, they'll be comming for the tropical fish, birds and then whatever else they can think of. it's a process with the "ANTI" folks. an erosion of rights and attrition of keepers. they win by slowly doing things and letting it be the norm. baby steps. some day the old timers will be able to say: "yeah sonny", i remember back when you could actually keep a lizard".........


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

HABU said:


> how different things are. here, if a kid expresses an interest in animals be it bugs or herps, fish whatever, it's looked well upon.


You know, I must have grown up and lived in an entirely different part of the United States than you did.

Where I grew up, an interest in animals was considered not particularly normal - certainly my teachers did not encourage my lunchtime activities watching and trying to catch the whiptails, bluebellies and skinks on the school grounds, nor did anyone other than my parents ever try to get me interested in anything like that.



> school kids actually go out on feild trips and catch herps and things and keep them in their class.


Only class pets we ever had were a canary someone brought in for a couple of weeks, the hamster I donated when we couldn't keep him at the apartment we moved to and the occasional goldfish. We certainly weren't allowed to bring in animals we'd caught! Believe me, I tried...



> even the government( dept of natural resources) has nature walks and have people collect things.


Over here we have nature walks too... but in New Mexico, the trailheads ALL said "Leave only footprints, take only photographs."



> it's all good. like anywhere, we have some radical animal rights groups, but they are by no means a mainstream entity.


Except for the ones that make laws about whether you can keep iguanas or the majority of snakes in New York (you can't), the folk who push for mandatory spay/neuter unless you buy a breeder's license (California), the government agencies that say you can't keep certain exotics (Ferrets and Quaker Parakeets in California, African Soft Furred rats and Gambian Pouched Rats anywhere in the US), the folk who instigate breed bans... maybe you're seeing things from a totally different perspective, but I sure grew up knowing that the HSUS wasn't out there to help people KEEP pets... it was out there to KEEP people from keeping pets.


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