# Mysterious Skull Identification Please



## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

My mum found a weird skull in our back garden. For about a week she's been trying to describe it to me and I kept fobbing her off telling her it was probably a cat or a hedgehog. She kept going on about how it had weird teeth and a horn. I fobbed her off again and said it was probably a damaged nasal bone or something, so she dragged it in the house. :lol:

I've not a clue what it is. It does appear to have a horn-like growth protruding from god knows where as it's so decomposed / damaged that it's hard to know which end is which. 

The teeth don't look like they were made for chewing, so I'm guessing reptile or fish. The jaw bone also isn't joined in the middle and doesn't look damaged, so again that may point towards reptile. 

I'm no good with these kinds of things, so would like opinions from anybody who is well versed in the world of dead things. :lol:

Any clues?


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

could it be a baby Narwhal skull ?


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## sam432 (Mar 8, 2009)

holy moly. havnt a clue wat it is,


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

DoDo,


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

how very interesting, have you got a local museum (for example natural history.zooological..? we do in cambridge) send the pics and find out, very interesting!


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

I was going to approach a museum. There are some very big ones in Manchester. Just didn't want to approach them with the left overs of somebody's saturday night dinner. :lol:

What animal would have pointy teeth on both sides of it's jaw? 

The horn does appear to be firmly fused to the skull, but absolutely no idea what animal might have that characteristic. 

It's only about 3" long.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Carlie said:


> I was going to approach a museum. There are some very big ones in Manchester. Just didn't want to approach them with the left overs of somebody's saturday night dinner. :lol:
> 
> What animal would have pointy teeth on both sides of it's jaw?
> 
> ...


it sbetter to ask and get told its a ''chiclken'' to not knowing an dit possibly being somethign coooooool.

what about a cham? actually they dont have teeth..


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

I've sent the Manchester Museum an email with the pictures on. 

I've no doubt it is a chicken or something. :lol: I'm just curious as it looks bizarre.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

My first thoughts were some sort of fish - the shape of the skull is "fish-like" and it looks like it's lacking a lot of tetrapod (things with 4 legs) features. 

In this photo:








does the lower part (what I would say is the jaw) articulate (move) around what looks like a joint in the middle? If so, would the skull be facing to the right in this photo? It looks like the end of the lower jaw is missing (it should be over on the right hand side, below what looks like an eye socket). Fish can grow "teeth" on pretty much any part of their head, depending on the species and which areas genes are active in during development.

If so, then the "horn" could actually be support for a fin or some other structure, like you can see at the back of this skull. There's also an (untoothed) lower projection below the lower jaw, which could be similar to the one in your skull:










I can't say I'm an expert on fish skulls or on working out what things are based on photos so it'd only be a guess!! If not then my second guess would be unicorn :razz:


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## stuart89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Which way is it facing? One way it looks like a sheep skull with a unihorn and the other way it looks like a fish skull with a sail fin bone.


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

I did think fish and that perhaps I was looking at the skull from the wrong angle. 

I had bones from a plec once and he had a really big bone at the front of his dorsal fin very simlar to this one, so it's possible it is a fish. 

I've had another look and the skull is firmly fused at the number 1 spot and hinged at number 2.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

just showed my dada he recons its a fish (he is a keen fisherman---but could be wrong lol)


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

Ewwww, there's a bloody slug in it!! :evil:

It's quite decomposed, but it looks like the back of the skull is where the 'jaws' meet. What looks like eye sockets could still be eye sockets, just set back on a long head perhaps?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

freekygeeky said:


> just showed my dada he recons its a fish (he is a keen fisherman---but could be wrong lol)


p.s sorry for the poor paint job.


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

freekygeeky said:


> just showed my dada he recons its a fish (he is a keen fisherman---but could be wrong lol)


So what might the 'jaw' bits be then? A part of it's gills or something? 

I'm open to the idea that they're not teeth at all.

I said it'd be the left overs of somebody's dinner. :lol:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Carlie said:


> So what might the 'jaw' bits be then? A part of it's gills or something?
> 
> I'm open to the idea that they're not teeth at all.
> 
> I said it'd be the left overs of somebody's dinner. :lol:


could be bone structure, or dad said they could of flipped and fused backwards (since it died, as in then go anti clockwise, and become the jaw.. is that makes ssense.?... lol


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

there.


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

pectoral fins?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

RasperAndy said:


> pectoral fins?


yea poss


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## sam432 (Mar 8, 2009)

i think the teeth like parts are part of the gills/throat, well i remember looking inside the mouth of a biggish perch and these things were all round it. was hoping it was like prehistoric or sommet oh darn


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

so its most probably a goldfish :lol2:

if anybody asks we can say its a dinosaur :2thumb:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

RasperAndy said:


> so its most probably a goldfish :lol2:
> 
> if anybody asks we can say its a dinosaur :2thumb:



hehe
i woudl say pearch like.. somthign along those lines, somethign with teeth down the throat? and large heavy dorsel.. lol 
hehe!
very inteersting though!


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

:lol:

It's the left overs of somebody's fish & chip dinner. :lol

Dirty buggers leaving it out in my garden! :devil: :lol:

I'd be interested to see a complete skull of what ever it is, if we figure out exact species.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

We thought fish too  (fab paint work too Freeky )

The "tooth" like things would probably be part of the pectoral fin structure as said already as opposed to part of the gills though?

My guess as a fish would be a roach of some type??


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

brittone05 said:


> We thought fish too  (fab paint work too Freeky )


lol thanky!!


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

The teeth are probably just that. They are known as pharyngeal teeth in fish and sit back in the throat in many species. The 'horn' would be the first spine of the dorsal fin.

My guess would be a perch or similar.


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## Joe1507 (Aug 11, 2008)

Im facsinated by this!
Did you find out what it is?
When you said horn I thought it was a goat, maybe a baby goat? looks abit small for a goat LOL


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Joe1507 said:


> Im facsinated by this!
> Did you find out what it is?
> When you said horn I thought it was a goat, maybe a baby goat? looks abit small for a goat LOL


lol i think we have come to a conclusion it is some sort of fish
one ith a big dorsel fin..
and one with teeth down its throat (whihc is common)


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

How big is it?


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> How big is it?


*think* he said 3 inches.. lol probably compltltly wrong! lol!


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

Yeah, it's not very big, about 3". 

So, we think fish then? Anybody find any skull images that might match? I've been looking but as it's so badly decomposed it's hard to see what it might look like complete.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

well thats a perch skul








http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/883/5001880.JPG

there are thousands of different fish, oculd be anything! lol


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## purpleskyes (Oct 15, 2007)

oops wrong username


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

looks like a skull from a member of the catfish family Doradidae or possibly loricariidae

Doradidae • Cat-eLog • PlanetCatfish









Edit, sorry should have said, it is DEFINITELY a catfish skull of some sort. The spiny pectoral fins are a dead giveaway


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I could only find this on the internet, I hope it helps


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Renfield said:


> I could only find this on the internet, I hope it helps



what a load of tripe!!! everyone knows god made the world in seven days, humans came from the garden of eden, women are spare ribs and the world is only 12,000 years old :2thumb:


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

looks more like the platydoras shape but the eye is bigger but with 1000's of species i don't think you're gonna get closer than this


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## kenneally1 (Feb 17, 2009)

fishboy said:


> what a load of tripe!!! everyone knows god made the world in seven days, humans came from the garden of eden, women are spare ribs and the world is only 12,000 years old :2thumb:


 
Please tell me you are joking! as everybody knows creationists are nuts!!!!!


Anyway i cant see a horn, though it does look like some kind of fish skull!!!!!!


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

kenneally1 said:


> Anyway i cant see a horn, though it does look like some kind of fish skull!!!!!!



see post above ^^^^^^^^ it is


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## scots_pine (Mar 25, 2009)

Unicorn :whistling2:


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

fishboy said:


> Edit, sorry should have said, it is DEFINITELY a catfish skull of some sort. The spiny pectoral fins are a dead giveaway


I think I've just figured out that it's the big Gibbiceps plec that died a couple of years ago. :blush:

Would explain the sailfin bone and the boney pectoral fins. 

What does everybody else think? Big Plec?


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

When I was younger I buried some of my reps in the back garden when they died.

We have since moved house.

I've often wondered what would happen if the people who live in teh old house now accidentally dug up the bones. Now I know!

Very interesting thread though, made a good read


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

I feel sad now. Some cat's been digging up my dead pets! :lol:

He was a horrible little bast though. Killed a good few of my cichlids including a fav Angelfish that we caught him attacking when it was asleep at night. Poor Edgar the Angel would be asleep at the top of the tank minding his own business when mean Plec would swim up the side of the tank to the top and then stick on the side of Edgar and drag him to the bottom. Poor fish didn't know what was going on and being pathetic and waffer thin couldn't do much about it. 

He also used to kill my Convict cichilds, and we all know how vicious those little buggers can be. He'd dart in to a shoal of them banging in to them with his spines. I think it was a territorial thing.

He ended up in a tank by himself with no friends. Serves him right. Then one day we just found him on the bottom not moving. He didn't look dead but after a few days of him not moving we kinda figured out he probably was, so we poked him. When we didn't get violently beaten we figured out he was dead and burried him in the back garden. Too big to flush down the loo. :lol: (that was a joke before anybody beats me up) 

Aaah, well. Mystery solved. It was interesting while it lasted. 

Thanks for all your help, my bone forensic peoples! 

Right, who's going to dig up the next pet so we can all guess what it is?! :lol:


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

we ran out of space for graves in our front and back gardens, we often talk about the remains people would find if they ever dug them up!!!!

its like pet cemetery


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## ephiedoodle (Oct 22, 2008)

has any one emailed you back about this. ?


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

I actually got an email this morning from the Manchester University Museum. :2thumb: Didn't think I'd get a reply.

They said definitely fish and the spine is probably poisonous so don't touch it! :shock: :lol: They invited me to send it in so they could have a look. 

I've no doubt it's the Plec, but may as well give them something to discuss over afternoon tea, so I'll chuck it in the post. 

My mum still doesn't believe that it's actually one of our dead pets and that the spikey thing couldn't possibly be a part of the fish's sailfin. I asked her what, in her wildiest dreams, could she possibly imagine would have a horn in the middle of it's skull? Apart from a baby Narhwal. :lol: 

Anyway, I'll send an email back to the university and see if they still want to see it.


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## ephiedoodle (Oct 22, 2008)

nice one,glad they replied to you.


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## Joe1507 (Aug 11, 2008)

keep us updated!


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## x.froggy.x (Nov 24, 2008)

Wow that is bizarre


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