# KSB not eating



## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

Hiya,

I’ve had Toto, my Kenyan Sand Boa, since April. He’s my first snake so I’m a bit of a newbie but getting there. Toto’s been eating fairly consistently (about once a fortnight, offering food about once a week) since I got him but for the past almost 2 months he has been off food.

Nothing has changed in his viv or handling patterns so I’m not sure it’s stress. He has UV light on a timer and a heat lamp on timer too, separate thermometers etc and nothing has changed with any of that since he stopped eating. He shed about a week into the hunger strike so I don’t think it’s that. He seems well in himself- very shiny and active, I’m seeing a lot of him in the evening which I think only really happens if he’s hungry.

The only thing that’s different is the size of mouse. At his last feed on 11 September he had his first hopper which seemed to go down well- he didn’t bring it back up or anything. But now he’s turning his nose up. I’m reluctant to go back to fluffs because I want him to get his nutrients and the small hoppers seem to be about as thick as his booty so he should be okay. Maybe he’s just fussy about fur?

I've tried everything- braining, offering on tweezers, dropping it in, feeding him in the dark, putting him in the airing cupboard in a box with the mouse- he is very determined not to eat. He doesn’t really even seem interested.

does anyone have any ideas or advice please?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Males are often very difficult feeders. They sonde not get very big. 18 inches often!
What temperature are you providing?


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> Males are often very difficult feeders. They sonde not get very big. 18 inches often!
> What temperature are you providing?


I’m picking up on that 😅 he’s a little cutie, I kind of like him tiny but wanna make sure he’s eating right.
He has about 35 ambient in the warm end, 37 hot spot (Celsius) and then about 27 in the cooler end. Just switched on the heat mat for nighttime as he’s in my bedroom and we sleep with the window open but it’s set to not get above 21.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

Did you try recently (after a period of fasting) with the smaller mouse size? If he eats it, then you have his hangup figured out.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Malum Argenteum said:


> Did you try recently (after a period of fasting) with the smaller mouse size? If he eats it, then you have his hangup figured out.


This.
In my experience of sandboas, and I've had a fair bit, smaller is better.
Offer a pink.
I'll write a hopefully better guide later on, but in the mean time, you don't need night time heat. And a mat for a fossorial species is useless.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I imagine it's due to it becoming winter, as Ian says I would switch out the heat mat and use an overhead heat source. Mats aren't good for fossorial species as in nature they bury down to escape heat, with a heat mat under the enclosure this has the opposite effect. They also do not heat the air, which may be why the animal has gone off its food as the enclosure itself is generally colder. 

They can easily go a few months without food, and often will do over the winter.


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> This.
> In my experience of sandboas, and I've had a fair bit, smaller is better.
> Offer a pink.
> I'll write a hopefully better guide later on, but in the mean time, you don't need night time heat. And a mat for a fossorial species is useless.


Okay thank you, I’ll try losing the mat overnight although that is recent so probably not the issue with eating. I’ll give him a week and try again with something smaller.


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

LiasisUK said:


> I imagine it's due to it becoming winter, as Ian says I would switch out the heat mat and use an overhead heat source. Mats aren't good for fossorial species as in nature they bury down to escape heat, with a heat mat under the enclosure this has the opposite effect. They also do not heat the air, which may be why the animal has gone off its food as the enclosure itself is generally colder.
> 
> They can easily go a few months without food, and often will do over the winter.


Thank you! He had overhead heat during the day and no mat. Was just worried he would be chilly at night. But it seems people think he can take it


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

Malum Argenteum said:


> Did you try recently (after a period of fasting) with the smaller mouse size? If he eats it, then you have his hangup figured out.


I didn’t know if that was a smart move as I didn’t want him to get fussy and I didn’t wanna feed him something too small and get him used to that again after he successfully took a hopper, but I do think this is the problem. So I’ll try him back on fluffs I think.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Having kept and bred sand boas I have found that they all, irrespective of species, have very similar quirks.
Feeding wise, they often do not like large prey items, and if fed something too big this will often trigger a self-induced hunger strike.
I found that if a sand boa suddenly stops feeding whe previously it had been feeding well, a pink will kick start them again.
Your temperatures seem absolutely fine, so the recent increase in food size is likely to be the issue.
Offer a pink and see how you get on.
My males never took bigger than a fluff.
With night time heating, these snakes come from a region that is very hot at day, and near freezing at night. They burrow to avoid the heat. For this reason, theu do not need to be heated at night.
The only other thing to consider is how you are measuring the temperature. Are you using a digital thermometer or one of those awful stick on dial ones? If the latter, replace it with a digital thermometer, as the analogue dial ones are completely unreliable.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

There's definitely a concern with some species of encouraging 'fussy' behavior, specifically a desire for a hard to source prey type (soft fur rats with royals, lizards/frogs in native eaters of those prey). But if a snake holds out for smaller prey, there's nothing really wrong with that (besides getting a bit expensive in some cases). 

Many of my snakes have some annoying preferences I have to honor (feeding from tongs, or prekilled -- not frozen thawed -- prey only), and I have one adult mountain king that stopped taking larger prey at peach fuzzies, and takes five or six at a sitting (dedicated nest raider, I guess). They're each individuals who haven't necessarily read the care sheet, and so act like they need to rather than how we expect them to.


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> Having kept and bred sand boas I have found that they all, irrespective of species, have very similar quirks.
> Feeding wise, they often do not like large prey items, and if fed something too big this will often trigger a self-induced hunger strike.
> I found that if a sand boa suddenly stops feeding whe previously it had been feeding well, a pink will kick start them again.
> Your temperatures seem absolutely fine, so the recent increase in food size is likely to be the issue.
> ...


Okay thanks this is helpful, I’ll try a pink instead of a fluff and try to work up to fluffs again. I thought I read somewhere that there was no nutritional value in a pink so I was worried but if you think he can stick with fluffs that’s great. 
I have digital thermometers in both ends and everything on stats so should all be correct


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

Malum Argenteum said:


> There's definitely a concern with some species of encouraging 'fussy' behavior, specifically a desire for a hard to source prey type (soft fur rats with royals, lizards/frogs in native eaters of those prey). But if a snake holds out for smaller prey, there's nothing really wrong with that (besides getting a bit expensive in some cases).
> 
> Many of my snakes have some annoying preferences I have to honor (feeding from tongs, or prekilled -- not frozen thawed -- prey only), and I have one adult mountain king that stopped taking larger prey at peach fuzzies, and takes five or six at a sitting (dedicated nest raider, I guess). They're each individuals who haven't necessarily read the care sheet, and so act like they need to rather than how we expect them to.


Sounds like a lot of work! I’m glad I only have my one fussy lil guy to look after!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dannidoll93 said:


> Okay thanks this is helpful, I’ll try a pink instead of a fluff and try to work up to fluffs again. I thought I read somewhere that there was no nutritional value in a pink so I was worried but if you think he can stick with fluffs that’s great.
> I have digital thermometers in both ends and everything on stats so should all be correct


Not true. What pinks are lacking, though, is calcium. 
When I've had sand boas go off food I just gave a couple of feeds of pinks to them going again. I then gave a single pink, and before the snake had finished swallowing, so jaws still.slightly open, place the nose of a mouse into the snake's mouth. Usually the snake will just keep swallowing. After that they get fed on their previous sized mice.


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> Not true. What pinks are lacking, though, is calcium.
> When I've had sand boas go off food I just gave a couple of feeds of pinks to them going again. I then gave a single pink, and before the snake had finished swallowing, so jaws still.slightly open, place the nose of a mouse into the snake's mouth. Usually the snake will just keep swallowing. After that they get fed on their previous sized mice.


Okay handy. Hopefully he will be getting some help in that respect from the lamp. Is there any supplement powders or anything I could be giving to support his health?
Toto drags his food back under the aspen and is very shy- won’t eat in front of me- so I’m not sure id manage your mouse trick.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dannidoll93 said:


> Okay handy. Hopefully he will be getting some help in that respect from the lamp. Is there any supplement powders or anything I could be giving to support his health?
> Toto drags his food back under the aspen and is very shy- won’t eat in front of me- so I’m not sure id manage your mouse trick.


No, snakes do not need supplements when fed vertebrates. 
The other thing to remember is that males are generally poor feeders, some will only eat a few times a year. 
I would try the pink method and see what happens.


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## Dannidoll93 (11 mo ago)

Thanks so much all who helped. I was able to get some pinks today and Toto was happy to see them! I couldn’t actually believe he took 2 when he is normally so difficult to tempt. So I guess hoppers were a bit intimidating. I’ll do another week of pinks and then try to size him up to fluffs again which he was taking reliably before- maybe we’ll need to stick with that until he’s a bit bigger


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