# Reptile shows - too many?



## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

At the beginning of this year there was so few reptile shows in the UK that they could be counted on one hand. Now there seems to ones sprouting up here, there and everywhere. 

Shows are brilliant and can bring the hobby closer together but by there being shows in every county are we not diluting the already small UK shows even further. It could be said as one of the new shows organisers that im just a guilty but i didnt realise the world and his wife were going to start organising shows.

Large UK breeders such as Hine etc dont bother with UK shows as they're too small and currently it looks like UK shows are struggling to sell out/fill up. If shows keep sprouting up we're going to spread ourselves pretty thin and end up with 20 little shows rather than 1 or 2 massive ones. I cant see why the UK cant have a huge Hamm style event where people from all across Europe come to visit. Having spoken to the big UK breeders, this is what they want.

Im not trying to stop anyone organising a local show but i think there should be some communication between UK shows, perhaps combining events to create larger, more worth while shows than lots of small ones. It annoys me that the big UK breeders dont think going to UK shows is worthwhile, theres no reason for this apart from shows not being organised/advertised/executed fully. We all know the herp hobby in UK is booming, so why do we have such small shows.


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

agreed, i dont see the point in setting up small shows, all they do is reduce the size of larger shows. think doncaser should be built up because it is fairly central, and could be expanded into using both halls


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## photographymatt (Mar 6, 2006)

too many rules in the uk for something like hamm. The venomous rooms for one, and then the success some of the europeans have with animals that we dont.

I like having more shows, but think we all need to go to support our scene. Dont need to spend anything, have a drink with some people you havnt seen for awhile, swap knowledge etc. Ill hopefully be at all the shows selling this year.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

leo19 said:


> agreed, i dont see the point in setting up small shows, all they do is reduce the size of larger shows. think doncaser should be built up because it is fairly central, and could be expanded into using both halls


the main problem I have with the idea of just one or two 'larger' shows is distance, transporting reps and cost ~ not everyone can travel 4+ hours there and back (8-10 hour round trip), has access to transport or if travelling a distance can afford to stay overnight ~ when the Exeter show went titsup it left many down this neck of the woods pretty much out on a limb so it was a real big cheer to incrisis and mendipmonsters (Mid Somerset Reptile and Amphibian Club) when they got going ... the sheer need for it shows in how quickly 40 odd tables were booked 
Smaller shows may not be popular with everyone but they can bring the hobby to many people who don't often (if ever) get the chance to buy anywhere else apart from shops and online


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## gaz (Oct 5, 2005)

are we barking up the funny tree today? lots of European countries including Germany and Holland have lots of small shows throughout the year,not just a couple of large ones,also you will find that quite a number of UK breeders myself included do not bother with Houten or Hamm any more,despite having tables there for several years
my two penneth worth 
regards gaz


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

After our show next you i will be speaking to the guys at Mid Somerset Reptile and Amphibian Club to see if we can hold on together on a much bigger scale.

Sadly if you live in the southwest you arent going to bother going to donny unless your loaded on petrol alone and no offence but even kidderminster is pretty far.

Our show is just past bristol which is lower down, london is 2 hours away so really we are in the middle for a good few places and its direct off the M5


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## kingsnake (Mar 23, 2007)

Why are we always comparing ourselves to Europe? They have different show rules and some of the welfare practices are a bit suss. Support the UK shows, I prefer them and some of the European exhibitors are starting to take notice of us now.
The grass isn't always greener.....


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

i wasnt knocking our shows! i love our shows, i just think it would be good if we had a really big one:2thumb:


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

Uk shows were doing right  i just came back from Houten there's always lots of WC reps at euro shows and live food all allowed over there.

the other side is some traders spend a small fortune on stands and the reps are perfect and happy all day long

i came back with 2 poor feeble near death ball pythons as i felt so sorry for them there slowly coming back to life now but we don't have to witness this at Uk shows is that not a good thing? 

i also have CF balls imported in the the Uk and are double the size and were in excellent condition stright from my trade supplier.

I think Uk shows do a great job 
Paula


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

if we did have a big one , we shouldnt let the standards drop


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

leo19 said:


> if we did have a big one , we shouldnt let the standards drop


 
I agree there, perhaps all the shows should get together one see what we can work out even if we broke away to 2 or 3 seperate shows you want one in the north, 1 in the midlands area and one down south and possible one near landsend.

Its about strategically placing them so they are easy to get to by everyone.


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

messengermatt said:


> I agree there, perhaps all the shows should get together one see what we can work out even if we broke away to 2 or 3 seperate shows you want one in the north, 1 in the midlands area and one down south and possible one near landsend.
> 
> Its about strategically placing them so they are easy to get to by everyone.


yeh, it may not be best for somewhere directly in the middle of the country but maybe somewhere with good transport links? london birmingham, manchester etc


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

Lucky for us we will be just off the M5 so easy to find and direct


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## incrisis (Jun 15, 2008)

I may be barking up the wrong tree here ........ but;

Since we organised our show, and messengermatt announced he was holding a show next year, the OP has started asking questions about the number of shows being held.

I for one think there should be at least one show in each area, this allows all the people who want to go to a show get to one without having to spend lots of money on petrol and accommodation.

There are a lot of people in the South West (and Scotland for example) that haven't been able to attend a reptile show due to the distance.

I agree that too many shows in the same area could cause a problem, but as far as I recall there hasn't been a reptile show in the south west before, yes one was arranged but the guy messed up and had to cancel it at the last minute.

With regards to larger shows and the merging of a couple of clubs, we already have some thoughts and plans for that, more details will follow when we get closer to arranging it.

Also if larger shows start up, due to the laws and regulations we have to abide by when arranging these shows, the likely hood of the standards slipping is very low.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

incrisis said:


> I may be barking up the wrong tree here ........ but;
> 
> Since we organised our show, and messengermatt announced he was holding a show next year, the OP has started asking questions about the number of shows being held.


I feel this is also the case as there was a comment made on my post regarding that very issue.




incrisis said:


> I may be barking up the wrong tree here ........ but;
> 
> Since we organised our show, and messengermatt announced he was holding a show next year, the OP has started asking questions about the number of shows being held.
> 
> ...


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

kingsnake said:


> Support the UK shows, I prefer them and some of the European exhibitors are starting to take notice of us now.
> The grass isn't always greener.....


*nods* and bigger isn't always better 



incrisis said:


> I for one think there should be at least one show in each area, this allows all the people who want to go to a show get to one without having to spend lots of money on petrol and accommodation.
> 
> There are a lot of people in the South West (and Scotland for example) that haven't been able to attend a reptile show due to the distance.


I agree and as I said earlier it gives more people a chance to attend a show then there would be otherwise and speaking to some others down this way your venue at Midsomer Norton is a godsend ~ especially for myself as I couldn't attend any shows further then that ... Bristol being the cut-off point for me.


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

forget what i said earlier i agree with you guys  i think each area should have its own show, but then one big show for the whole of britain


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

I think its fine, there needs to be one show in each area...Or else people wouldn't bother coming.Either that, or 1 big 1, but then a lot of people would miss out and tbh it I doubt it would be as well organised...But would maybe drag bigger breeders which would be awesome.


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## Horsfield (Oct 1, 2008)

Me thinks...... some sour grapes are around? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

My thoughts are that the best breeders in the UK already go to the UK shows. It's true there are some breeders that only go to Europe, but they are mainly royal or boa breeders, you can now get these snakes from many of the smaller breeder now. It's also worth remembering that not all breeders can or will go to every show, I'll be going to six shows this year, thats about enough for me. It can only be a good thing that the shows are growing again, I just wish they would be a little more spaced out and not one week it's this show, next it's that show.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

jeez we don't have any up here and you're whinging about having too many :whistling2:


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## Steve L (Jun 14, 2008)

The more, The better for the hobby i say !


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## Mendipmonsters (Apr 23, 2009)

Have to agree with incrisis that a show in each area is about right. On the case of shows not being filled-we have been turning away people wanting to have tables at the mid somerset show as we are totally maxed out and could have filled half again had we had the room. The key to more localised shows is they attract the smaller local guys to have tables as well as the household names. Case in point is Mark Elliot( I am sure he wont mind me using him as an example)-he has some stonking boa morphs,but would never book a table at donny as its to far. These guys dont always do the run of the mill stuff and add fresh bloodlines and interest in to the hobby at a local level. I personally dont think there are to many shows as long as they are run well and dont show the hobby in a bad light. The exotics section of the pet industry is one of the fastest growing areas,so ther are more rep keepers than ever. Granted a huge show like hamm or even the one that used to be at Leicester football ground(showing my age now) would be great but I am not convinced that it is doable yet-:2thumb:But you never no in the future.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Steve L said:


> The more, The better for the hobby i say !


 YEAH :2thumb:


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

I think the shows that are good and in a good location will stand the test of time. Some of the smaller ones may merge or just disappear all together. Everyone will go to the areas they can and the shows the like, the people through the door will decide it all in the end. For me I think doncaster will be my show, even though it isnt exactly on my doorstep. I just hope the shows start to attach people who breed the weird and wonderful as well as the more run of the mill things.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

you are all spoilt for choice we dont have any in this country and have to travel to england to get to one so i would much rather be in ur situation.


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## Pono (Jan 21, 2008)

You have to also take into account that in Europe, although they do have some very large shows, there are only a few, and also, Europe is a huge place compared to the UK alone, so it isn't surprising that if there are to be a few Huge rep shoes in Europe, they wont be in the UK. Also, Germany for instance is much more central in Europe than say the UK, so it is a better place to have a huge rep show as then it is right in the middle.

Not sure if that actaully makes any sense lol, but you get the jist of it 

Ed


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

i do agree with many points here down in the south or way up north there is not much for us as travel cost would be to much the show im doing for example i have been getting this ready about 2 months before i even posted it here been trying to find a decent venue to hold it the only reason i got the venue i have is that the man who runs it is on the plymouth city council board and hes a family firend i wish i could go to doncaster but there would be know way for me to get there and back again also me and my OH would like to go to the one at mid summer norton but funds are so tight at the moment we couldt even afford petrol to get there even if we were offered a lift i think these small little says would benifit the rep communites as i think down in plymouth there is not much of one IMO so this might kick start more people into our grate hobby and at the same time getting good information from good keepers and breeders not just pet shop staff IMO are not that good 

PS sorry about spelling i have not got my specs on as i cant find them lol


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## jav07 (Apr 20, 2006)

with all the rules and regs it would be hard to have a show as big as hamm, last sept the IHS did allow all reptile clubs and their members to book tables at the show and several took them up on this offer, it was a bid to see if they could get a larger show going, i think there were 120 tables in total, i think this september there will be many more booked,i dont see a problem with smaller shows as long as they are run properly and follow the rules and regs.


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Im not trying to dismiss people organising shows, it is great and is generally good for the hobby but having contacted numerous big UK breeders such as Hine, Crawford, Piasco and Harris, alot have said they're not interested due to how small UK shows are. Dont you think its a bit of a crime that the big UK breeders are ignoring the UK shows? Not supporting the hobby within their home nation.

Its all well and good saying a shows a good place to chat to breeders but at the end of the day the breeders are there to sell stock. Large breeders don’t want to come home with stock, meaning less breeders are likely to attend small shows

In regards to the UK not being able to put on a show the size of Hamm i disagree. I think it would be a massive effort but im sure with the correct planning, people and enough time one could go ahead. Yes venomous would be a problem but there’s ways to overcome it. Rules and regulations are different but why can’t we push the envelope rather than being happy with what we've got? I had numerous DWA breeders/keepers contact me during the organising of the WMRS show, there’s obviously a market there.

Take tarantula/invert shows. They're few and far between in the UK but people still travel miles to go to them. It gets treated as a day out, a social event and a place to buy new livestock. Yes the rep hobby is bigger but why have so many shows with such fewer tables? 

There are obvious places in the UK these shows will thrive. I think Scotland is crying out for a show as most UK shows are out of feasible travelling distance for Scots. I live in Scotland now and am looking at organising a Scottish show, but i dont just want Scottish breeders there. I want them from Ireland, North of England and further. You can say UK isn’t as big as Europe so less breeders but surely that means people have to travel less in the UK to go to a show. Im not saying people in Devon should travel 8 hours to one up North, but does every county need a show?

Maybe its just my mentality but i dont want a hall with 40 tables in. I want an arena with with 200 tables in it, whether I organize it or not. I think all the small shows will be able to sustain themselves and carry on but wheres the ambition. By going large im not suggesting ethics go out the window and that it wouldn’t follow rules and regulations, quite the contrary. 

All in all id hate to see reptile shows go from quality to quantity, 3 small events every month rather than 1 good one every few months but maybe im wrong.


(Sorry if I don’t reply immediately, currently without net at home so just using work comp during my lunch.)


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

I see where your coming from. Wouldnt it be great if we could make a reptile event big enough to fill a couple of halls in the NEC in birmingham or something. Even if its only once a year. But I think those days are a way off. The only thing we can do is go to the shows or sell at the shows, if more people do it then more space is required leading to more people attending and then you attract the bigger breeders and so it grows and grows.
I actually think shows might attract more people if they have seminars included in them for current topics and even presentations from herping trips. Or more educational things for younger visitors to grab them early so to speak.
Also think it could do with advertising more. As until I joined some of the online forums I didnt know some of the shows existed. But we have practical reptile keeping out now so a show special in there wouldnt go a miss as that magazine might reach some people who arent online. As so on.


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## jav07 (Apr 20, 2006)

oakelm said:


> I see where your coming from. Wouldnt it be great if we could make a reptile event big enough to fill a couple of halls in the NEC in birmingham or something. Even if its only once a year. But I think those days are a way off. The only thing we can do is go to the shows or sell at the shows, if more people do it then more space is required leading to more people attending and then you attract the bigger breeders and so it grows and grows.
> I actually think shows might attract more people if they have seminars included in them for current topics and even presentations from herping trips. Or more educational things for younger visitors to grab them early so to speak.
> Also think it could do with advertising more. As until I joined some of the online forums I didnt know some of the shows existed. But we have practical reptile keeping out now so a show special in there wouldnt go a miss as that magazine might reach some people who arent online. As so on.


 the nec was mentioned about 18 months ago which would be great,the main thing would be to get all clubs under one roof and go from there,but it's easier said than done,the new room at doncaster can hold upto 250 tables i think which would be a massive show.
Also this will be the first year that a show has recieved sponsership from one of the large reptile companies so things are slowly growing but it's going to take time.


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