# Expanding foam background substrate.



## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi all, 

I'm doing a escape and going down the expanding foam, silicon and earth route. 

Simple question I can't find the answer for. 
What is the substrate to use? I have a block of coco fibre. Do I use this with the water added? 

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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yes but you will need it to dry out or it will not stick. I would use gorilla glue instead of silicone as it sticks a lot better.


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Yea I've been reading up on gorilla glue. Uses water at same time ago damp eco earth would benefit. Next question then. Will this seal the foam enough? 

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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

O and which gorilla glue is it?

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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yes we use it in the phib section and it stands up to humidity of 80-90% without any problems. Just remember to keep pushing it down where you don't want it to expand.


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Ah brilliant. I'll get some soon then. I'll also upload a pic soon. Its a 3ft exo. Though if I'm gonna do it I'll do it big. 

Thanks

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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

What are you keeping in it?


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't know yet. I have three cresties so may put them in it. But I've always been tempted by some darts. But I have set it up to have a water section, so not great for darts. Any suggestions

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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

A water area is fine if you go for dendrobates leucomalus the yellow and black darts. They love water so long as they have a piece of wood to climb out. They are also great darts for the beginner and you could keep 4 or 5 in there.

If you are using expanding foam coat the glass inside your viv with black silicone as it gives a neat mirror finish. Here are a couple of poor quality pics of my latest build for darts.

















I will use the foam over this and the silicone hides the mess on the outside. You just trim the silicone to the edge of the foam when finished like this on my old build.


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

I tried the silicone, failed badly. I think i put the foam on to early, or used wrong silicone, because the foam has pushed the silicone so i have 'smears' ah well i will paint it after maybe, as the foam in my opinion, has turned out well. 

What gorilla glue do you use, the normal one I am assuming?

As for the water section I had a genius idea, and am using an under gravel filter. having a few issues, but should be good.


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

caddie said:


> I tried the silicone, failed badly. I think i put the foam on to early, or used wrong silicone, because the foam has pushed the silicone so i have 'smears' ah well i will paint it after maybe, as the foam in my opinion, has turned out well.
> 
> What gorilla glue do you use, the normal one I am assuming?
> 
> ...


Straightforward gorilla glue wood glue

Looking good so far though

Dave


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Gorilla Glue 1Litre: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

caddie said:


> Gorilla Glue 1Litre: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


yep


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Use fablon from most hardware stores (sticky back plastic ) to cover the back and sides, will give a nice neat finish. That is a large water area but if you use lots of big stones and bog wood it should still be ok for darts ( just don't make it too deep.

Looks good so far and will look great planted up.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Remember to put a pipe in the land section so you can drain any excess water. Also you could put a heater in the water section to help increase humidity. If you do keep darts it will need some small modifications to keep humidity up and make it fruit fly proof.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

I just use silicon for mine (I've tried experimenting with Gorilla glue and actually found it less sticky than silicon - I was probably doing something wrong though as many many people not only use it, but rave about it!)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/908903-45cm-exo-terra-cube-paludarium.html


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

What silicone did you use? And what's the recipe for your choir bug mix??

I was gonna use hydro leca but I think a false bottom would be better. 

I am also unsure how to heat it. If i use a aquarium heater in the false bottom will that be enough? 

Your build is looking good. I had seen it before. Gave me the inspiration for the glass section. 

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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

caddie said:


> What silicone did you use? And what's the recipe for your choir bug mix??
> 
> I was gonna use hydro leca but I think a false bottom would be better.
> 
> ...


 
HA6 RTV MARINE SILICONE - AQUARIUM/WATER/


I agree with a false bottom being better than hydroleca (though I have been known to use both!)

Not sure about heating as I've never bothered before.
If you do choose to heat, make sure you have access to the heater and can remove it if necessary. I once made the mistake of trailing a wire for a pump under the fake background. Once the pump broke, the entire waterfall was useless and the pump was 'fixed' in place!


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Small update. I have done some more carving, and also added cork to the top of the glass separator. Its a waiting game now. 

I have foamed in an old hover pipe in one corner for all my cables. So power and air pump hoses and drainage pipe will go in there. 

That's the silicon I have to put the eco earth on. But got clear. Doh. Next build I'll use black on the back. But I'm gonna get some gorilla glue in the afternoon. 

I have a spare waterfall pump. Mmm shall i use it in this or the next one. 

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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

caddie said:


> Small update. I have done some more carving, and also added cork to the top of the glass separator. Its a waiting game now.
> 
> I have foamed in an old hover pipe in one corner for all my cables. So power and air pump hoses and drainage pipe will go in there.
> 
> ...


 
For such a bog and expensive build, for the sake of a bit more time and a few quid I would strongly recommend NOT using the clear at all (unless it's too late?). It tends to go opaque blue/white with time and sticks out like a sore thumb underneath the coir.


(My coir mix isn't a recipe as such, I just happened to have a box of left over coir and 'bugbed' (I buy this from the invert guys at shows) that was all bone dry, so I used that. I've had success with plain old straight coir, but if using silicom it must be absolutely bone dry or it doesn't stick.)


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Hahah. It is and it isn't too late. I haven't used it for the eco earth just for putting in the glass divided and filling certain areas. Going to use gorilla glue so eco earth slightly damp will be alright. And stick on the silicon I have already used. 
I'll rake some pics now and show my failures ........

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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

My Failures


















Supports jut for holding atm



















major fail, but the top left should clear up with the help of stanley



















These two is where I have plugged the gaps where the foam has come away


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

You needed to let the silicone dry for a few days before adding the foam. Fablon on the outside will hide all that. If keeping darts room temps are usually ok but an aquarium heater raises the ambient temps by a couple of degrees and also increases humidity. I have had a lot of success doing this. 

For your planting substrate use Ecco earth, tree fern, orchid bark and some cork Chipping's. Add in a couple of springtail cultures and dwarf woodlice, leave for a couple of weeks and your good to go.


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

fatlad69 said:


> You needed to let the silicone dry for a few days before adding the foam. Fablon on the outside will hide all that. If keeping darts room temps are usually ok but an aquarium heater raises the ambient temps by a couple of degrees and also increases humidity. I have had a lot of success doing this.
> 
> For your planting substrate use Ecco earth, tree fern, orchid bark and some cork Chipping's. Add in a couple of springtail cultures and dwarf woodlice, leave for a couple of weeks and your good to go.



Suberb I will get on ye old Google now for some fablon,

Substrate ill get on dart frog

and coco fibre all over the expanding foam

where do you get your egg crate from. ebay seems a bit expensive.

Thanks for all your advice btw


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

eBay or use filter grids they use for fish pond filters. That's what I use as its much stronger. They have the egg crate filter grid on eBay for £5.


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

I am about to order this

Gorilla Glue 500ml: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


Im not sure whether to go for the litre or this one. how much do you need to do a 3ft viv and two 1.5ft?

ps is this the right stuff?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

caddie said:


> I am about to order this
> 
> Gorilla Glue 500ml: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
> 
> ...


You may be ok with 500ml but I'd go with the litre pot, as it takes quite a bit when you're doing a highly textured background.

Dave


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Quick update as it has been a while.

Good job I went for the 1 litre, as I used around half, and still reckon I have some touching up to do. but it really is starting to take shape now.

I will be getting some Fablon tonight, and wack that on and take some pictures.

As for the canopy luminare I dont know what to get. I have two options

Arcadia Vivarium Canopy 39W T5 Desert

I like this one because it is T5 but only one tube

Swell Pro Terrarium Canopy

I like this one because it has two tubes, so I can have a tropical plant growth tube and 6% tube. It also does al lthe heating and himidity only down side is T8, but as it stands I will be putting my cresties in here, so only need T8. But may put some darts in.

decisions decisions


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Cheeky bump on this as id like some advice on the canopy


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

caddie said:


> Cheeky bump on this as id like some advice on the canopy


Arcadia. The Swell one looks good, and humidity control and so on is a big plus if you were planning to use it, but in a viv thats 3 foot high you're going to want all the light you can get, so a T5 grow light has to be the way forwards for decent plant growth everywhere in the viv.

This is based on my understanding that they don't "need" UVB due to being nocturnal, if however you wish to provide UVB, then really the Swell product is the way forward, or else you'll end up needing to buy two canopies, and thats not really cost effective!

Dave


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## caddie (Dec 11, 2011)

Right then guys its been a while so here is an update.

My Arcadia canopy came today, went for the T5 and so glad I did, the light is crisp I just cant explain what it is about the light but it looks the nuts.
I opted for the 10% tube so that pretty much whatever I want can go in, but John why can't you do a dual top canopy so I can have a 10% and a freshwater pro in. I will gladly test it for you  

John watch your profits soar all my reps are gonna be getting this upgrade. My panther is screaming out for it.

Right down to the build. I have had some difficulty with coverage using the gorilla glue, you can see the results below, I am unsure what to do, I have tried patching up with more glue but it doesn't seem to be working. My next try will be using silicone and dry substrate, or glueing sphagnham moss, Your thoughts please.

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The top left is what I am on about. These pics are great at hiding it
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Anyways let me know what you think


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