# Sexing marmoset



## Lanamaria

Hi, I'm new to the forum, 2 months ago I brought a 6 month old marmoset to pair up with my boy, I was assured she was a girl but now I'm not to sure, would be great full of any help on how to sex them


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## ipreferaflan

Hey, I don't personally keep marmosets but I do work with them. I've noticed there's quite a distinction in their genitals.

This website shows a comparison! Sexing Marmosets

Or is she/he still too young to see?


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## Lanamaria

Hi, thanks for reply, my boy has large testicles and her bits do look different they both hang on the side of the cage rubbing themselves on it and iv just noticed she's got a bit that sticks out like a willy I'm so confused, she doesn't look like either of the pictures lol


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## ipreferaflan

Sounds like you've got yourself an hermaphrodite.
Sell it to medical science!

I'm sorry I can't be of any help! My experience is extremely limited.


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## mat_worrell

I was confused to start with. Males have large testicles with a black dot more to the top in the middle. Females have a similar shape genital area but if you look closely has a small slit shape in the middle. Females gentals can look like males it is a bit confusing but once you see the difference you will know. Hope it helps. Ask Peter on here username PETERROBERTSON.


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## Lanamaria

Oh dear!!!!! There definatly isn't a slit bit in the middle, so now I have 2 males, will that cause problems? I really wanted to breed them and have my own little family ! Thanks guys


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## ipreferaflan

These are common marmosets, yeah?

Two males shouldn't really be a problem. It would be worse if they were both female I believe, as the females are supposed to be more dominant. One of the groups we keep at work has 3 males and a female, the other has a male, a female and two babies (also male and female I believe), and I'm not sure of the sexes of the others. The males don't seem to bother each other.

Well at least if it is male, you have an excuse to buy another marm.


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## Lanamaria

That's good then, so il be able to have 2 boys and 1 girl, Im really annoyed at the person who sold her me as a girl, don't suppose there's much I can do though now, just have to save up another thousand pounds lol, 
Thanks:devil:


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> That's good then, so il be able to have 2 boys and 1 girl, Im really annoyed at the person who sold her me as a girl, don't suppose there's much I can do though now, just have to save up another thousand pounds lol,
> Thanks:devil:


If it is 2 boys please dont put a female in...
They will fight and maybe to the death to become the dominant male..
She would choose and they will defo fight.
The female will only breed with 1 of them...
They will see each other a a potential threat...

What Matt has told you is quite acurate..

When young the male and female do sometimes look very similiar..
The male will have a dot further up toward the tummy.
The females is closer to the bottom and as they become more mature there is a distinct slit becomes quite clear.
This is unmistakable to anyone as its cleary a penis and vagina..
Well hoping you know what they look like:lol2:
Check your new arrival out and if you can post a picture and then we can give opinion...
If it is a female its a bit young...
They are better left with mum and dad till they see a birth for themselves.
Then they will know what to do...
You will get bother at birth as she wont know what to do,,how and when to feed..
Some will tell you they will naturally become parents...
The chances of this are quite fine as theres more that dont than do.
But it can happen..
Ive known of a member on here that taught his female how to rear the young.
But thats for him to tell and not me...


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## Lanamaria

*Marmoset*

Thanks for that, he/she is 7 month old do you think at that age i should be able to see a definate slit ? I will try and get a pic on tomorrow, she came from her parents at 5 months old, I was so desperate to get my boy a mate, he was hand reared and at that time I didn't realize how wrong it was, but I just thought I'd be able to give him a better life than anyone else who would just stick him in a cage on his own, maybe if she's a boy would it be best to leave it as the two of them ? Or would kneed to buy another pair!?


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## mat_worrell

Might not help a lot as these are adult genitalia not young but you can get a rough idea.


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## ipreferaflan

Whoooops. Don't listen to me then! haha
Sorry for wrong info!


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> Thanks for that, he/she is 7 month old do you think at that age i should be able to see a definate slit ? I will try and get a pic on tomorrow, she came from her parents at 5 months old, I was so desperate to get my boy a mate, he was hand reared and at that time I didn't realize how wrong it was, but I just thought I'd be able to give him a better life than anyone else who would just stick him in a cage on his own, maybe if she's a boy would it be best to leave it as the two of them ? Or would kneed to buy another pair!?


I would be able too tell but i cant really answer if you would tell the difference.
Its more the position when they are young
I have a very young Geoffroy and he has a definate set of balls at a very early age.(pardon the french but i guess balls is balls)
Try to get a picture if you can.
With your other one being hand reared and this one being away so early from its parents i would personally let them have each others company.
Males have been known to be ok together as company as long as theres not a female for them to become dominant over.
Even hearing can sometimes trigger a reaction from them...
If it is male and female then fingers crossed for the problems that you will defo face if and when they do breed.
Hand reared male may not carry and very young female will not know what to do....
But hard work can achieve alot.....
These types of problems arise all the time as they are sold far too early and hand reared never reintroduced back to the troop.
Weve put hand reared back into troop and they do learn from there own when excepted and even learn parenting skills...
Wish you all the best.
Post pic if you manage to get one...
If all else fails theres always the easy option...
A VET.....


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## Lanamaria

Iv managed to take a couple of pics just need to work out how to put them on,:blush:


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## mat_worrell

Load them into photobucket or something similar and copy the IMG code. Paste it I the reply box on here and submit the reply, pics will appear.


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## kodakira

Hi Lana

Posted on behalf of Lanamaria

Sorry for the delay, here is your picture











Best Wishes

Neil


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## mmcdermid

pretty sure thats male


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## snowdrop

mmcdermid said:


> pretty sure thats male


I'd say female :lol2: But I have no clue when it comes to monkeys! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Lanamaria

Thanks for that, I'm really confused, my boy had definate balls at that age,


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## snowdrop

snowdrop said:


> I'd say female :lol2: But I have no clue when it comes to monkeys! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Now looking again, I'm starting to think male :hmm: :lol2: Sorry Lanamaria I know this isn't any help to you :lol:


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## mat_worrell

Not 100% but I would say that looks male.


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> Thanks for that, I'm really confused, my boy had definate balls at that age,


Looks like hes just a late developer.
Lighter blotch on the picture is one of his testicles and the line splitting is his penis.
As his testicles start to drop the line will fade and just leave a small penis canal.
And a prominant set of testicles..
It happens with some,,can be really easy to make mistakes..
But i would be happier seeing for myself as its a picture.
Based on the picture id say its defo a male....
Thing is with this is you will end up with so many mixed opinions youl be even more confused..
Keep an eye on it as its nearly developed and then youl know for sure.
They will be fine and after a while you will be able to decide.


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## kodakira

Thank goodness a few people weren't 100% sure either.

At first I thought female and then told Lana I was leaning towards a male.

Sorry that you probably have a boy.

Best Wishes

Neil


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## Lanamaria

Oh dear!!!! My boy still wants sex with him or her, does that make any difference lol? Also anyone know what that rapid licking means?


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## mmcdermid

id like to know about the rapid licking too....my male does this to me (male) but not my partner (female). so would make sense if he was doing it to another male marmoset? im rubbish at guessing the emotion/action traits


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## mat_worrell

This little quote is in relation to goeldii but might be of help...

scent licking: This is when the tongue is flicked outside of the mouth and usually it is quick and occurs singly (Heltne et al., 1981). The mouth is slightly open during this pattern (Heltne et al., 1981). This common behavior is performed by all members of the group and is seen during situations when an individual comes upon an unfamiliar object or animals, urine, or another type of marking, and towards the tail or rump of a mate during seated rest (Heltne et al., 1981). This pattern functions to sense chemical signals (Heltne et al., 1981).


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## mmcdermid

mat_worrell said:


> This little quote is in relation to goeldii but might be of help...
> 
> scent licking: This is when the tongue is flicked outside of the mouth and usually it is quick and occurs singly (Heltne et al., 1981). The mouth is slightly open during this pattern (Heltne et al., 1981). This common behavior is performed by all members of the group and is seen during situations when an individual comes upon an unfamiliar object or animals, urine, or another type of marking, and towards the tail or rump of a mate during seated rest (Heltne et al., 1981). This pattern functions to sense chemical signals (Heltne et al., 1981).


this describes the exact action but is a rapid constant flicking of the tongue, not a single action as mentioned


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## Zoo-Man

That picture looks like a male to me, but time will tell.


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## PETERAROBERTSON

*Licking*

The rappid licking described is used in many ways with the marms and tams..
It can be nerves,,,agrettion,insicure etc.
When licking at another animal its usually trying to let them know they are not a threat and can be done by male to female as well as male to male..
I think in this case it sounds like its the older animal trying to show the younger that hes the main man.
When they are with mum and dad you will witness the older sybling doing it with the younger.
Its like playing but with meening..
This can get out of hand at times and thats usually when mum will step in and let them know that its not to be....
If it continues then the mum may favour the younger of the sybling(usuall cases) and push the older away..
9/10 its males that do it..
Same as with dogs.
Weve all seen it--2 males going through the playfull coartship and then when we turn around they are humping each other--even at the wrong end..
We had two males which had to be purchased together..
We had two females to put them with but were waiting for them to get a bit older etc etc..
They displayed this on a regular basis and one became the dominant of the two..
Got worse as they could hear the females.
It resulted in them fighting and then the decision was made to make the pairs for us.
Tams also do it as agression to ward you off.
Especially cotton tops as there tongue is very distinctive(red )
They will flicker it in and out very fast whilst puffing up too look big.
Marms do it as well but ive found it more with the tams.
Guess its a part of their way of comunicating...
Theres a web site with a german university that studied them for years and they have quite an explisit list of issues with tongue licking and tongue flashing as well as much more..
Sounds etc etc..
I do think in this case i still wouldnt judge that its 100% that its 2 males.
As said earlier its a picture that opinions are given.
It could be misleeding so give it a bit more time to be certain.
But i think hes male going by the picture...
The male will also sometimes lick at the female when he wants her to be submissive..
Hope this helps but its my opinion.
And only an opinion.
I can only base things on what ive read and experianced myself over the past 20 or so yrs.....
Its like everything else..
They are all different and sometimes when they have not recieved proper education from parents(away too early or even hand reared) then they have not been educated in the proper way to comunicate.
Or even how to react when an other is comunicating with them..
So i guess its back to us guys again.
When we dont leave them to be monkeys things change.
And not for the better.
Ive one male that does it to me on every chance he gets..
Licks at the back of my neck and then proceeds to hump my neck.
Hes been with us for many years and has never at any time bitten me.
No matter what i do.
He bittes Bernadette all the time.:lol2:
This has turned into a book..
SORRY FOLKS


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## Lanamaria

Thanks to everyone for opinions, I really hope it is a girl but that's doubtful now, il update when the balls drop :lol2:


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## mat_worrell

Fizz and EB have a hard time communicating because of her being hand reared. She just has never learnt monkey. The best way of describing her is like an unruly teenager, no respect, everything on her terms and quick to lash out when she doesn't get her own way!! Poor EB has a right hard time, you can see him looking trying to work her out!! It's quite funny but I do feel sorry for him some times!! Fizz will come swinging in, snatch what he has got out of his hand sit there and eat it and when he looks at her as if to say WTF she gets all vocal and starts to chase him off!! Although this is only with EB never with us!! Hopefully given time she will learn from EB.

Im hoping aswell it's age, Hopefully she will calm down as she gets older and learns.


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## kodakira

mat_worrell said:


> Fizz and EB have a hard time communicating because of her being hand reared. She just has never learnt monkey. The best way of describing her is like an unruly teenager, no respect, everything on her terms and quick to lash out when she doesn't get her own way!! Poor EB has a right hard time, you can see him looking trying to work her out!! It's quite funny but I do feel sorry for him some times!! Fizz will come swinging in, snatch what he has got out of his hand sit there and eat it and when he looks at her as if to say WTF she gets all vocal and starts to chase him off!! Although this is only with EB never with us!! Hopefully given time she will learn from EB.
> 
> Im hoping aswell it's age, Hopefully she will calm down as she gets older and learns.


Hi Matt

The behaviour you descibed might be exaggerated due to being hand reared but that pretty much sums up all our female primates.

We have a pair of Marmies ( who are now living as part of a small troop )who were not hand reared but who I believed were taken away before they got any handling experience. The female is pretty much what you describe.

The second pair who were quite badly neglected before we got them, eating chips etc. They have had handling experience and she is more or less exactly the same.

We have just got a pair of Red Bellied Tamarins who have had two lots of handling experience within their troops and when put together its the female who is the boss. God she is forceful and vocal.

And last but not least is my wife :lol2::lol2::lol2:.

Best Wishes

Neil


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## PETERAROBERTSON

kodakira said:


> Hi Matt
> 
> The behaviour you descibed might be exaggerated due to being hand reared but that pretty much sums up all our female primates.
> 
> We have a pair of Marmies ( who are now living as part of a small troop )who were not hand reared but who I believed were taken away before they got any handling experience. The female is pretty much what you describe.
> 
> The second pair who were quite badly neglected before we got them, eating chips etc. They have had handling experience and she is more or less exactly the same.
> 
> We have just got a pair of Red Bellied Tamarins who have had two lots of handling experience within their troops and when put together its the female who is the boss. God she is forceful and vocal.
> 
> And last but not least is my wife :lol2::lol2::lol2:.
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Neil


This sums up monkey life to a T..
Mum is boss.
Younger females will display the same as they learn from her.
So when they go on to have young of there own they will be the same.
All 100% correct its handrearing and removing too early that upsets the harmony.
After all who will teach them..
Needs to be mum and dad.
Yes they can learn to be a monkey but only the skills that the other can pass on.
Not how to be a mum and control the troop.
Have posted before about mum common at Oban zoo dieing through the night..
Nobody there too keep control and all were killed with exception of one male...
Who infortunatelly died a few weeks ago in our care..
After living a happy life but due to his severe injuries was never 100%
Jaw line was out and his teeth were malformed and only certain things he could eat.
After witnessing this it only made my veiws of moving on even more strong...
And yes Neil im the same..
When Bernadett says jump.
I ask how high:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man

kodakira said:


> Hi Matt
> 
> The behaviour you descibed might be exaggerated due to being hand reared but that pretty much sums up all our female primates.
> 
> We have a pair of Marmies ( who are now living as part of a small troop )who were not hand reared but who I believed were taken away before they got any handling experience. The female is pretty much what you describe.
> 
> The second pair who were quite badly neglected before we got them, eating chips etc. They have had handling experience and she is more or less exactly the same.
> 
> We have just got a pair of Red Bellied Tamarins who have had two lots of handling experience within their troops and when put together its the female who is the boss. God she is forceful and vocal.
> 
> And last but not least is my wife :lol2::lol2::lol2:.
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Neil


:gasp: Im telling Debra!!! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## PETERAROBERTSON

mat_worrell said:


> Fizz and EB have a hard time communicating because of her being hand reared. She just has never learnt monkey. The best way of describing her is like an unruly teenager, no respect, everything on her terms and quick to lash out when she doesn't get her own way!! Poor EB has a right hard time, you can see him looking trying to work her out!! It's quite funny but I do feel sorry for him some times!! Fizz will come swinging in, snatch what he has got out of his hand sit there and eat it and when he looks at her as if to say WTF she gets all vocal and starts to chase him off!! Although this is only with EB never with us!! Hopefully given time she will learn from EB.
> 
> Im hoping aswell it's age, Hopefully she will calm down as she gets older and learns.


Matt she will calm down but it wil be EB who will learn what not to do to upset her..
Its good shes boss as thats how it should be.

Eventually she will vocalise and he will obay....


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## Lanamaria

I'm now sure it's a boy, and it's probably for the best with all the complications of them being hand reared, in the future I definatly want more of them and possibly some babies, would the best thing be to get 2 females at a later date that have been with there parents to see other babies be reared??? The vet told me it's really important for them to have a sex life so would keepin two boys be cruel? I have a big shed and aviary coming in two weeks I can't wait :2thumb: I wanted a bit of advice on heating the shed and the best insulation... if anyone could help,


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## kodakira

Hi

If you got two females you would have to make two separate pairs.

You could not put the two females in with the two males as all hell would break loose.

Best Wishes

Neil


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## PETERAROBERTSON

What Neil says is true.
Two pairs would need to be made.
They would fight for territory and the males dominance over each other and even the females.
Would be a bad idea.
Insulation in your enclosure.
Either isover insulation or even kingspan would be good.
All walls and even ceiling as well.
Hatch too outside that can be closed to keep draughts out.
I use a tunnel system so as even with it open it can keep stable heat.
I use convectors as they heat really quick and are best for keeping heat stable and regular.
Roomstat to control temp but use a tharmometer next to it and use the thermometer and not the stat to reach temp required.
Use a breaker(stat) so as if the roomstat gets nacked it wont overheat the monkeys.
Alot forget this and has in a few cases lead to tragedy.
I ve got a scetch of the tunnel and hatch.
Ill pm to you if you like.


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## Lanamaria

Yes would really appreciate that, so would I need another separate home if I had 2 pairs, or is there any other way of having more than my 2 boys and maybe babies? Really sorry I'm a pain lol


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## kodakira

Hi

Yep, you would need two homes.

If you want babies ( getting a female ) then I think you would have to split the two boys as they would fight each other to be top dog and hence the female. 

I have seen two males fight and it lead to horrific injuries ( not mine by the way ).

Best Wishes

Neil


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> Yes would really appreciate that, so would I need another separate home if I had 2 pairs, or is there any other way of having more than my 2 boys and maybe babies? Really sorry I'm a pain lol


Theres no other way that you can keep your two boys and get a female.
Either get two females and have two enclosures.(not looking on to each other)
Or trade one male against a female and make one pair.
There is not any other way....
Its not worth the risk as these small creatures do some amount of damage when they go for it when fighting.
Not nice to see and with you being new you would get the fright of your life.
Not too easy to pull apart either.
Always results in a very sore bight...
I would try and get a female for your original male.
If you bought the other as a female and the breader got it wrong.
Ask him to change it for another.
If it was me i would oblige no problem..
We can all make mistakes...
If your too atatched to the newcomer then im afraid its the expence of two females...
If you send an email address ill forward the hatch details... 
Hope all works out ok for you


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## Lanamaria

It's a shame, I have spoken too him and he said he could probably sell him for me but that would leave my original boy on his own for a bit, which would be cruel, so il probably have to look into someone doing me a straight swap at a later date, surely it's better for them to be in a opposite sex pair, if you hear of anyone wanting a swap in a couple of months please let me know. By then the outside enclosure will be all up and running,
My email is [email protected]. 
Thanks for your help


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> It's a shame, I have spoken too him and he said he could probably sell him for me but that would leave my original boy on his own for a bit, which would be cruel, so il probably have to look into someone doing me a straight swap at a later date, surely it's better for them to be in a opposite sex pair, if you hear of anyone wanting a swap in a couple of months please let me know. By then the outside enclosure will be all up and running,
> My email is [email protected].
> Thanks for your help


Yea its better if they are in an opposite sexed pair.
But the chances of anyone giving a straight swap Male-Female is very slim.
Infact id say no chance whatsoever.
Can the breeder not give you a Female as thats what you would have paid for??
The females are usually a bit more expencive than the males.
You may find that youve paid over the odds for yours..
But thats between the breeder and you as i wouldnt want involved:bash:
Got the email address and will send the hatch details shortly...
You could keep as two males but if breeding is the way you want to go then you need to re-think.


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## Lanamaria

Only problem is he only has one breeding pair and there probably about due to have babies now, he said he couldn't have the one he sold me back cos parents would kill him, is this true? And if I had one of his females at a later date would the age gap be a problem


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> Only problem is he only has one breeding pair and there probably about due to have babies now, he said he couldn't have the one he sold me back cos parents would kill him, is this true? And if I had one of his females at a later date would the age gap be a problem


I would want the female to be a bit older...
You could get the older more experianced male trying to boss female..
I use round about same age or older female as rule of thumb..
Avoids any unnessesary problems..
Just like us humans.
Men kid on they are boss outwith hearing distance of there wifes.
But we all know its the woman that wear the trousers...
I think if you try and source a female and use the money from him re selling as part payment....
Surely you wouldnt need to wait till he resold to get your money back.
Its breeders mistake and not yours....
But not all work that way...Sorry to say...
Will email hatch oer next couple of days as dongle on laptop at work is playing up and wont be free to use desktop at home till probably Wednesday night ...
But will keep trying with laptop...


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## Lanamaria

The last couple of mornings my my monkeys have been shivering, there inside the front room in a big cage, I keep the bottom of an incubator so they always have somewhere warm to go, but they won't go in it, they sleep in a furry cat tent, iv tried takin it off them so they use the other and they won't go to bed, it will be another month or so till there outside enclosure is ready, I'm not sure what the best way to keep them warm, is there anything online I could buy that I could also use in the shed outside?


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> The last couple of mornings my my monkeys have been shivering, there inside the front room in a big cage, I keep the bottom of an incubator so they always have somewhere warm to go, but they won't go in it, they sleep in a furry cat tent, iv tried takin it off them so they use the other and they won't go to bed, it will be another month or so till there outside enclosure is ready, I'm not sure what the best way to keep them warm, is there anything online I could buy that I could also use in the shed outside?


Surely your front room cant be that cold.
They should get heat from each other,,,so the cat tent instead of box would keep their heat.
Try putting the heater on in your front room till enclosure is ready....
You could even put a nest box in with a heat matt underneath with a pulse stat so as not to overheat..

Im not really all that certain how to go about this as none of ours are in cages.
They all have enclosures specific too there needs....
Dont take it the wrong way but surely these issues should have all been adhered too before the animals were housed at yours.....
Again please dont take personal


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## Lanamaria

Does anyone know my rights as a buyer, this person who I brought the monkey off when I rang him basically said nothin I can do and f off!!! So I'm really annoyed to put it mildly,


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Lanamaria said:


> Does anyone know my rights as a buyer, this person who I brought the monkey off when I rang him basically said nothin I can do and f off!!! So I'm really annoyed to put it mildly,


Dont think you have any rights at all.
It would be down to the breeder to try and give you what you paid for..
But any breeder that lets an animal go at the age yours is has obviously got what they want.

There hands on your money...

As ive already said it leads to all sort of problems.
They should not be away from parents untill carried etc.
Alot say seeing a birth is enough.
They dont get to carry untill older which is usually after 2 from them.
Its all learning...

Its what i think stinks.
Even on adds on here..
For sale and have gave me 6 babies.
Where are the babies.
Sold.
Ethics are passed on from person to person and there are more bad ethics than good.
People should be passing on whats best for the animals.
Not seeing them as a meens to getting money...

Then theres the ones that say its an expensive hobby...

Buy a bloody goldfish...

I would never dream of selling on forums.
Would only buy from people who i know and trust...

Seems a shame your in this situation...

You have obviously put faith and trust in the wrong type of people.

As i said earlier maybe keeping both males would be good experience and learn from them and poss move on from there.

Any deasant person would have been 100% certain of sex.

Commons at a young age are difficult to the inexperienced eye.

Its just a shame youve got this mess....

But maybe using it as a learning curve is the answer....

Did you get the heating problem sorted????


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## Lanamaria

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Surely your front room cant be that cold.
> They should get heat from each other,,,so the cat tent instead of box would keep their heat.
> Try putting the heater on in your front room till enclosure is ready....
> You could even put a nest box in with a heat matt underneath with a pulse stat so as not to overheat..
> 
> Im not really all that certain how to go about this as none of ours are in cages.
> They all have enclosures specific too there needs....
> Dont take it the wrong way but surely these issues should have all been adhered too before the animals were housed at yours.....
> Again please dont take personal


Yes it sorted now thanks I brought a heat Matt, It was quite strange as heating is always on I think I was worrying about nothin as usual,


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