# Tap water safe?



## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Right is tap water safe to use if i leave it running through an external filter? like will in time the chemicals evapourate? or am i needing to get bottled water (its for dart frogs)


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

i've always used tap water, i dont filter or anything but i do live in cornwall, it's fairly soft down here.

(this is for a misting system etc i assume?)


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I use CLEAN rainwater.A lot of hobbyists will poo poo this but as long as it is clean there are few health issues.

I have a friend who uses tapwater for all of his tadpoles and he has no problems.If you are using it for a spray system as Cornish said be careful if yours is hard water.That can leave residues and clog up nozzles.


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

its for a water fall, the tap water in birmingham is pretty good, we use it for our tropical fish tank with no problems and the g/h is quite low


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Most keepers dont use waterfalls with dartfrogs because of the possibility of them drowning , getiing stuck in the waterfall or difficulty with cleaning it out.

But back to your original question if the tapwater is good enough for fish it should be fine for frogs.


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

colinm said:


> Most keepers dont use waterfalls with dartfrogs because of the possibility of them drowning , getiing stuck in the waterfall or difficulty with cleaning it out.
> 
> But back to your original question if the tapwater is good enough for fish it should be fine for frogs.


 yeh its only a little one, not fast flowing nor deep as it goes straight through into the faulse floor  and cheers :2thumb:


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## The Hypnotoad (Oct 24, 2011)

wilko92 said:


> its for a water fall, the tap water in birmingham is pretty good, we use it for our tropical fish tank with no problems and the g/h is quite low


Are you using a dechlorinator?

Doesnt matter what the parameters of the water are, if you put untreated water into a tropical fish tank you will kill all of the bacteria in the tank and seriously harm your fish.


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

The Hypnotoad said:


> Are you using a dechlorinator?
> 
> Doesnt matter what the parameters of the water are, if you put untreated water into a tropical fish tank you will kill all of the bacteria in the tank and seriously harm your fish.


 sorry, but the tank is thriving? its straight out the tap and though a filter with the carbon stones in? the fluval U2 is the filter in the fish tank, has guppys in there and a dwaf green spotted puffer fish and all are doing fine, had the tank atleast 12 months now :S ?


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## The Hypnotoad (Oct 24, 2011)

wilko92 said:


> sorry, but the tank is thriving? its straight out the tap and though a filter with the carbon stones in? the fluval U2 is the filter in the fish tank, has guppys in there and a dwaf green spotted puffer fish and all are doing fine, had the tank atleast 12 months now :S ?


Carbon wont get rid of Chlorine.

Chlorine in tap water kills all the bacteria in the tank and your filter, what your basically doing is starting your tank over as brand new each time you put water into your tank. Your fish may look like they are "thriving" but the ammonia and nitrate spikes you will be getting in your tank will be killing your fish.

Seriously look this up, nobody in their right mind will tell you to put tap water straight into your tank unless you want to slowly kill your fish.

Also isnt a green spotted puffer a brackish fish anyway?


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

The Hypnotoad said:


> Carbon wont get rid of Chlorine.
> 
> Chlorine in tap water kills all the bacteria in the tank and your filter, what your basically doing is starting your tank over as brand new each time you put water into your tank. Your fish may look like they are "thriving" but the ammonia and nitrate spikes you will be getting in your tank will be killing your fish.
> 
> ...


 yeh, but the dwaf is fresh water, although a little salt is added but wouldent call itbrackish water, and there has been no nitrate spikes or nor ammonia as i do regular tests


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

A few myths been repeated here I see.

First up, using water straight from the tap WONT kill filters etc, and rarely has an immediate impact on fish. It does however hurt fish gills (the chlorine) stressing the fish and weakening them against illness. Many people however have switched to using water straight from the tap and just keep water changes small. I'm not one of them. Note however, amphibians will be harmed far more by the chlorine and chemicals in tap water than fish will be, simply thanks to how their skin is designed. You CAN however stand tap water for about 24 hours, aerating it with an air pump and air stone, and this will drive off the chlorine. HOWEVER there are more nasties in tap water than just chlorine, not limited to particles of rust and sand, hormones etc etc.

Next up, carbon WILL remove chlorine from tap water, however you need a large carbon block type filter to do this, not just a small net of carbon in an external filter. Also activated carbon is quickly exhausted.

Finally dart frog keepers DO use waterfalls, we just don't use READY MADE ones. It has nothing to do with drowning, and everything to do with the ready made ones turning into bacteria farms. Most sensible dart frog keepers have come to the conclusion that the "dart frogs drown in water" thing is a myth that came about from either sick frogs going into the water to try to feel better but been too weak to get our or keep their heads above water, or the very occasional case of trying to keep 2 dominant frogs together where they had a fight and the stronger frog held the weaker frog under the water. I've yet to read or see any evidence of healthy settled frogs drowning.

Now my opinion on water. Bottled gets too expensive, basically because all bottled water is NOT equal. Many brands are harder than tap water, the softer brands tend to also be the more expensive ones. Dechlorinator is better than nothing, but again long term costs a fair bit and doesn't remove all of the nasties either. Tap water is great if you live somewhere where it's clean etc which isn't always the case. Me, I use a HMA filter.

My HMA filter combines pods with 5 micron filtration (removes minute particles such as rust, sand and spores), carbon filtration (removes chlorine and some other chemicals that can be removed in this way) and a mixed resin that removes heavy metals. The output of this is clean water clean of the garbage but without removing the good minerals (calcium, magnesium etc), giving you water with a pH and hardness matching your tap water. They produce NO waste, and are far cheaper to run than using dechlorinator or bottled water. I use this for standing water.

For misting I use RO water. This doesn't stay in contact with the frogs long enough to cause problems, and doesn't clog up the nozzles on my misting system with calcium carbonate deposits. BUT, RO is a bad idea on it's own for standing water, and you get a LOT of waste water produced (around 97% of the water going into the RO comes out as waste).

Ade


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

colinm said:


> I use CLEAN rainwater.A lot of hobbyists will poo poo this but as long as it is clean there are few health issues.
> 
> I have a friend who uses tapwater for all of his tadpoles and he has no problems.If you are using it for a spray system as Cornish said be careful if yours is hard water.That can leave residues and clog up nozzles.


:lol2: this one won't be poo pooing rainwater Colin,lets face it clean it up abit and it just works.Paul I'll show ya how soon,and you can see the results first hand, and gauge this for yourself.......erm and its free, eco friendly
nuff said
Stu


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

soundstounite said:


> :lol2: this one won't be poo pooing rainwater Colin,lets face it clean it up abit and it just works.Paul I'll show ya how soon,and you can see the results first hand, and gauge this for yourself.......erm and its free, eco friendly
> nuff said
> Stu


 i must say, im quite excited to see the goods :notworthy:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Filter your rain water with polyfilter and you get nice clean water. Thing is, Polyfilter aint cheap either. lol

I go through about 20 litres of misting water A WEEK. 

Ade


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

I wont need to mist :2thumb: the water fall will keep the humidity up nicely, kinda why i got one in there, means i only have to open the tank once and thats too feed :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

wilko92 said:


> I wont need to mist :2thumb: the water fall will keep the humidity up nicely, kinda why i got one in there, means i only have to open the tank once and thats too feed :2thumb:


No, it wont. You WILL need to mist for dart frogs, they need quite high humidity that even a water fall wont keep up. Trust me on this.

Ade


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> No, it wont. You WILL need to mist for dart frogs, they need quite high humidity that even a water fall wont keep up. Trust me on this.
> 
> Ade


 well, looking at the tank now, i dont think i will.. but ill test the tankw ith heat, and humidty etc etc before getting the darts  if its needed then so be it, but ide like to avoid it time will tell but i will test it all first :2thumb:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Rather than splurging out on an expensive misting system, you can just use a misting spray bottle (under a quid at Wilkinsons or wherever :2thumb, but Ade is right- however you do it, you *will* have to.

On the water front, water condioning kits are fairly cheap in any aquarists shop; they not only remove chlorine, but also the more persistant, but equally damaging chloromines, which are not removed by standing the water overnight.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

It really depends on how big the waterfall is in comparison to the vivarium as whether you need to mist and of course the water flow.


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Rather than splurging out on an expensive misting system, you can just use a misting spray bottle (under a quid at Wilkinsons or wherever :2thumb, but Ade is right- however you do it, you *will* have to.
> 
> On the water front, water condioning kits are fairly cheap in any aquarists shop; they not only remove chlorine, but also the more persistant, but equally damaging chloromines, which are not removed by standing the water overnight.


yeh i have a pump one where you presurise it  so ide use that like if needed  


colinm said:


> It really depends on how big the waterfall is in comparison to the vivarium as whether you need to mist and of course the water flow.


this is it : victory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yDAzBrURX8&list=UUFE01u6X2LtNxhmKJZXYIsw&index=1&feature=plcp


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

colinm said:


> It really depends on how big the waterfall is in comparison to the vivarium as whether you need to mist and of course the water flow.


I had a very big waterfall in one viv (a converted aquarium, so less ventilation). I STILL needed to mist once every 3 days. Waterfalls mostly produce large splashes, they're good for making stuff wet, but not so good at producing a fine mist of water particles that you need to keep humidity high enough permanently.

The bigger the waterfall, the more spalshing you get, and eventually you end up with sodden wet substrate. Which is NOT good for dart frogs.

Trust me, even an aquarium heater in a pool of water will do more to keep humidity up than a water fall will. I do actually have one viv run purely with a large water fall. My White's viv, which stays nicely at 50-60% humidity, not really high enough for darts. That viv doesn't even have a step/front vent.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, this is a ready made waterfall you've bought? Which a few of us have already explained will act as a bacteria farm, and leave you with sick frogs sooner or later.

Ade


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> I had a very big waterfall in one viv (a converted aquarium, so less ventilation). I STILL needed to mist once every 3 days. Waterfalls mostly produce large splashes, they're good for making stuff wet, but not so good at producing a fine mist of water particles that you need to keep humidity high enough permanently.
> 
> The bigger the waterfall, the more spalshing you get, and eventually you end up with sodden wet substrate. Which is NOT good for dart frogs.
> 
> ...


 not a ready made one  one i bright runs down the back wall and straight into a faulse floor the vid shows it  the plashing isnt too bad, there is dry areas also there will be hides etc which will be dry as if the water spashes on them it will just go to the side and go straight back underneeth :2thumb: ive modded the exo terra put plastic int he front half on the mesh siliconed all the vents on the front etc, now im leaving it run till monday, while monitering the humidity, untill i get the trest of thew substrate in and planted then ill moniter it again as live plants help keep humidity high, if the end result means i still have to mist then i will im not saying i wont have too, but im hoping i dont either way im not too fussy :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

That's ok then. 

It still wont keep your humidity high enough on it's own though.  Nor will the live plants.

Ade


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> That's ok then.
> 
> It still wont keep your humidity high enough on it's own though.  Nor will the live plants.
> 
> Ade


 i HOPE it does... but if not so be it haha! but cheers for all the info :notworthy:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

No worries. I'm just posting from my experience, and i've used water falls a few times. All DIY ones.

I made a very similar one to yours in my leuc viv, a drip wall down the cork at the back and a water fall through a cork tube. I also had a small aquarium heater in the false bottom. The viv glass was always wet, but I still needed to mist it as it was only wet surfaces (mostly from the leucs going for a paddle, then climbing all over the glass), not humidity in the air.

Oh and something I completely forgot about misting, it rinses the frog wastes down off your plants and decor into the soil, where it breaks down and feeds your soil inverts and plants. Without misting it will sit on the leaves, meaning your frogs keep getting it on them and possibly it could cause your plants to rot. Sure you can remove it by hand, but misting a couple of times a week takes much less time.  So misting has more use than just raising/maintaining humidity. 

Ade


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Wolfenrook said:


> No worries. I'm just posting from my experience, and i've used water falls a few times. All DIY ones.
> 
> I made a very similar one to yours in my leuc viv, a drip wall down the cork at the back and a water fall through a cork tube. I also had a small aquarium heater in the false bottom. The viv glass was always wet, but I still needed to mist it as it was only wet surfaces (mostly from the leucs going for a paddle, then climbing all over the glass), not humidity in the air.
> 
> ...


 ahhh good point there about the misting! i havent put a heater in the faulse floor incase anything was to go wrong with it, means rippign all the floor out etc! but i think ima put a heat mat under the exo to warm the water a little although i just felt it and feels luke warm but not cold :2thumb:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Please tell me you made a hatch so you can get at the pump for your waterfall? Please please please. lol I say this, as not creating easy access to your pump is one of THE top newbie mistakes made, and usually leads to the waterfall been unplugged permanently after a few months of running when the pump gets clocked up completely and stops working. 

Not just my opinion this My Top 10 Beginner Mistakes - Dendroboard. lol

Ade


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

wilko92 said:


> I wont need to mist :2thumb: the water fall will keep the humidity up nicely, kinda why i got one in there, means i only have to open the tank once and thats too feed :2thumb:


Not a chance.
I used to think like that but have thrown my waterfalls into the bucket long ago.
Misting system doing the business and then a hand spray every now and again to keep thing as wet as needed.
The right amount of heat to get evaporation which gives the humidity.
Sorted.

Mike


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