# Not sure now...ID?



## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

I was adamant my G. pulchra was a G. pulchra after purchasing it from TSS (previous thread http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/spider-invert-pictures/585427-my-g-pulchra-juvie-2.html) but after another moult and its still no darker im starting to question it. I was told by other pulchra owners that theres have been browner when younger and have darkened up. Mine still appears too brown for its size.

Sooooo, any ideas?

New pics...









































It was 2cm when I got it, has moulted 7 times since Ive had it.
11/09/09
28/10/09
12/12/09
20/01/10
01/02/10
20/06/10
13/03/11


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## billsy (Nov 29, 2008)

Mine is about half that size and is alot darker than that already, It could just be the individual mind, I've got 2 L.violaceopes and they're the same size and possibly from the same sac as they moult within days of eachother but are completely different in colour, one has gotalot of blue coming through while the other seems to be turning black/dark brown. 

I doubt TSS made a mistake but send them an email with the pic and ask them about it.

The only other thing i could suggest is maybe its an immature male? 

: victory:


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## Brandan Smith (Nov 17, 2010)

mines about 5cm maybe abit more and totally black :/


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Can safely say that aint a G.pulchra lol. Other than that im afraid i dont really have a clue. Would normally say mollicoma but the hairs dont look right. Colin Wilson or Elaine are the people you should ask.


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## cbmark (Feb 23, 2008)

looks nothing like mine thats for sure


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

billsy said:


> Mine is about half that size and is alot darker than that already, It could just be the individual mind, I've got 2 L.violaceopes and they're the same size and possibly from the same sac as they moult within days of eachother but are completely different in colour, one has gotalot of blue coming through while the other seems to be turning black/dark brown.


What you described is just normal sexual dimorphism which is well known in _Lampropelma violaceopes_, the darker one could well be male whereas the bluer one could be a female. There is no sexual dimorphism colour changing within the species _Grammostola pulchra _both male and female remain jet black. And even though that tarantula looks to be _Grammostola_ I haven't a clue as to what species it may be.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

mcluskyisms said:


> What you described is just normal sexual dimorphism which is well known in _Lampropelma violaceopes_, the darker one will be male whereas the bluer one will be a female. There is no sexual dimorphism colour changing within the species _Grammostola pulchra _both male and female remain jet black. And even though that tarantula looks to be _Grammostola_ I haven't a clue as to what species it may be.


Yup what Chris has said. The only one i can see that has sexual dimorphism is G.mollicoma Southern form in which the males tend to be a lot browner than the females.


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## OGRE1987 (Nov 24, 2010)

*G.Pulchra*

Could it be a G.Pulchra but a sort of albino,...maybe not white but along them lines!!!!Justing saying cos happens in mammals,...why not in invertibrates!!!!Just a guess but its interesting theory to consider!!!!!Hmmmmmmmmmm:whistling2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

OGRE1987 said:


> Could it be a G.Pulchra but a sort of albino,...maybe not white but along them lines!!!!Justing saying cos happens in mammals,...why not in invertibrates!!!!Just a guess but its interesting theory to consider!!!!!Hmmmmmmmmmm:whistling2:


Nopes i would say its a Grammostola of some kind. There has been a lot of hybridisation between the black grammies as they all look similar.


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Would normally say mollicoma but the hairs dont look right.


Seen a pic of mollicoma on arachnoboards that looks similiar but if I google mollicoma mine doesn't look as 'fluffy' as the majority of the results. Thanks for the replies. So its not a G. pulchra, nevermind. Just an interesting grammy  . The search continues


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Pleco07 said:


> Seen a pic of mollicoma on arachnoboards that looks similiar but if I google mollicoma mine doesn't look as 'fluffy' as the majority of the results. Thanks for the replies. So its not a G. pulchra, nevermind. Just an interesting grammy  . The search continues


I would say yours is too fluffy lol. None of my mollis have that amount of fluffiness


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

selina20 said:


> I would say yours is too fluffy lol. None of my mollis have that amount of fluffiness


lol, damn google images never as helpful as you would like them to be :bash:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Pleco07 said:


> lol, damn google images never as helpful as you would like them to be :bash:


Heres some piccies for ya:

Af mollicoma southern



















Juvenile male mollicoma



















My one and only handling pic ever and that was because he climbed out his tub


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Cheers
Yes, mine definatly looks 'fluffier'


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## Cutter (Dec 12, 2010)

Pleco07 said:


> Cheers
> Yes, mine definatly looks 'fluffier'


The only thing I can really put is a Grammostola Rosea. But I am no where near an expert, or anything, I just think it looks more like a Grammostola Rosea than a Brazilian black..


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

thats a Grammostola alticeps if i'm not mistaken :2thumb:


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> thats a Grammostola alticeps if i'm not mistaken :2thumb:


After doing some searching I wondered that but a lot of the images still looked a lot darker than mine altho there were some pics that looked pretty much identical

This was the reply I got from TSS



> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This is a bit of a mystery as all the pulchra slings we have stocked have come from eggsacks from wild caught females (so cant be hybrids). There is a light form of G.mollicoma also found in Paraguay but what is confusing is we would had anywhere between 300 - 600 slings from the same sack in stock and your the only person who has queried the species.
> 
> ...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> thats a Grammostola alticeps if i'm not mistaken :2thumb:


Could be anything or a hybrid lol


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Could be anything or a hybrid lol


lol. Unfortunatly it will be up for sale soon so thats pretty much how the title will go...
'Could be anything or a hybrid for sale'


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

More prettiful pics...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Your best bet would be to get in contact with Colin Wilson on the BTS forum. Hes the top grammie guy and would be able to tell ya what it is.


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Your best bet would be to get in contact with Colin Wilson on the BTS forum. Hes the top grammie guy and would be able to tell ya what it is.


Cheers, just PM'd him.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

why not keep it? it could turn out rare!


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

wilkinss77 said:


> why not keep it? it could turn out rare!


OH don't like the T's


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## freedomisle (Jul 9, 2010)

selina20 said:


> Can safely say that aint a G.pulchra lol. Other than that im afraid i dont really have a clue. Would normally say mollicoma but the hairs dont look right. Colin Wilson or Elaine are the people you should ask.



Looks like a G.pulchra to me. They do vary in how dark they are, they also darkern as they mature. Here is a pic of my 6cm legspan female Juvi. You can see it hasnt got its full dark colour yet but its a lot darker than yours. Bought as an 2cm sling from TSS June 2010.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

the OPs spider is alot larger and more mature than yours at 3" legspan and would certainly be velvet black by this point......certainly not pulchra


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Its not a G. pulchra, i know that. As for darkening as they mature, this T is just browning out now.


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## Brandan Smith (Nov 17, 2010)

this is my 2inch pulcher 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Brandan Smith (Nov 17, 2010)

plec if you decide to sell just pm me a price


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Shandy said:


> plec if you decide to sell just pm me a price


I will definatly be selling it soon


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## freedomisle (Jul 9, 2010)

Pleco07 said:


> Its not a G. pulchra, i know that. As for darkening as they mature, this T is just browning out now.



You got it from the Spidershop? Have you bothered to even contact the spidershop?

Even if it was incorrectly sold or a hybrid Lee would know more than the guys on here. He would even have records of where he got it from 

i.e if wild caught where it was caught from or who they got it from. 


Please let us know what Lee from the TSS comes back with.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

freedomisle said:


> You got it from the Spidershop? Have you bothered to even contact the spidershop?
> 
> Even if it was incorrectly sold or a hybrid Lee would know more than the guys on here. He would even have records of where he got it from
> 
> i.e if wild caught where it was caught from or who they got it from.


how would Lee know more about spiders than some of the guys on here? :lol2:
he only started in spiders a few years ago, before that he was into geckos iirc, in fact i employed him to build my 3rd website.....and he commented on the pictures of the spiders making him shudder! lol

some of the people that have given advice have a lot more experience than Mr Arden :2thumb:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> how would Lee know more about spiders than some of the guys on here? :lol2:
> he only started in spiders a few years ago, before that he was into geckos iirc, in fact i employed him to build my 3rd website.....and he commented on the pictures of the spiders making him shudder! lol
> 
> some of the people that have given advice have a lot more experience than Mr Arden :2thumb:


The OP has been in contact with Mr Wilson and had a good chat.


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## freedomisle (Jul 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> how would Lee know more about spiders than some of the guys on here? :lol2:
> he only started in spiders a few years ago, before that he was into geckos iirc, in fact i employed him to build my 3rd website.....and he commented on the pictures of the spiders making him shudder! lol
> 
> some of the people that have given advice have a lot more experience than Mr Arden :2thumb:




I do not know why you took it as an insult to your knowledge of Tarantulas. Its a fact that if it was incorrectly sold or a hybrid Lee would know more than you guys about its origin.

Peace out :lol2:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

freedomisle said:


> Please read more thoroughly in future.
> 
> "He would even have records of where he got it from i.e if wild caught where it was caught from or who they got it from"
> 
> ...


please read threads more thoroughly in future!



Pleco07 said:


> After doing some searching I wondered that but a lot of the images still looked a lot darker than mine altho there were some pics that looked pretty much identical
> 
> This was the reply I got from TSS





> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This is a bit of a mystery as all the pulchra slings we have stocked have come from eggsacks from wild caught females (so cant be hybrids). There is a light form of G.mollicoma also found in Paraguay but what is confusing is we would had anywhere between 300 - 600 slings from the same sack in stock and your the only person who has queried the species.
> 
> ...


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## toro9186 (Aug 18, 2009)

freedomisle said:


> You got it from the Spidershop? Have you bothered to even contact the spidershop?
> 
> Even if it was incorrectly sold or a hybrid Lee would know more than the guys on here. He would even have records of where he got it from
> 
> ...


If you have a look on page 2 the OP has quoted an email reply he got back from Lee...


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

It's a very pretty spider, whatever it is!

The only thing that looks not-pulchra is the colour tbh. I'd be in there with a UBS microscope to have a look at the eye colour, is it just me or do they not look as 'black' as usual for tarantulas? Also, the hook bits on the feet (go captian science!) aren't black. They're usually black, right?
Might just be the photos?


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

OGRE1987 said:


> Could it be a G.Pulchra but a sort of albino,...maybe not white but along them lines!!!!Justing saying cos happens in mammals,...why not in invertibrates!!!!Just a guess but its interesting theory to consider!!!!!Hmmmmmmmmmm:whistling2:


Nope. T's don't have skin like mammals.


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Stelios said:


> Nope. T's don't have skin like mammals.


I'm sure I've read about cases of (although very rarely) hypomelanistic and hypermelanistic inverts.

Pigment isn't exclusive to mammal skin or hair 

Edit - failing to find anything now, typical! I'll have a better hunt later if I can.


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

All I can do for now is the 'albino' scorpion that someone in the UK bred.
And it's not a fresh-moult, just lacking the normal pigment. So it's rare (like rocking horse poo rare), but not impossible.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

a clear look at the spermatheca will narrow down the possibilities vastly


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Pleco07 said:


> I will definatly be selling it soon


The time has come (finally), will be putting it in the classifieds later when I get some fresh pics although it looks pretty much the same just a bit fatter. Was going to wait for it to moult and send the moult off for a bit more of an idea or at the very least a sex but decided to let it go sooner.


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## Alaina (Nov 18, 2009)

I just read through this thread. Any luck with an ID?

Good luck selling


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Alaina said:


> I just read through this thread. Any luck with an ID?
> 
> Good luck selling


No idea what it is


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

Ally said:


> I'm sure I've read about cases of (although very rarely) hypomelanistic and hypermelanistic inverts.
> 
> Pigment isn't exclusive to mammal skin or hair
> 
> Edit - failing to find anything now, typical! I'll have a better hunt later if I can.


How about Holothele incei 'Gold' ? They are possible/probably amelanistics


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

PeterUK said:


> How about Holothele incei 'Gold' ? They are possible/probably amelanistics


Very good point!

I've not had the opportunity to have an up close look at one of those, I only have the normal colour ones... *adds to the wish list*


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## MaskFac3 (Dec 2, 2011)

OGRE1987 said:


> Could it be a G.Pulchra but a sort of albino,...maybe not white but along them lines!!!!Justing saying cos happens in mammals,...why not in invertibrates!!!!Just a guess but its interesting theory to consider!!!!!Hmmmmmmmmmm:whistling2:


Because colours in vertebrates are pigments as therefore morphs are caused by a deffective gene causing lack of/different pigment inverts are different so they can't have 'morphs'


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## Lopez (Dec 13, 2011)

Pleco07 said:


> The time has come (finally), will be putting it in the classifieds later when I get some fresh pics although it looks pretty much the same just a bit fatter. Was going to wait for it to moult and send the moult off for a bit more of an idea or at the very least a sex but decided to let it go sooner.


TSS offered you the opportunity to exchange it for a "definite" G.pulchra of a similar size, I don't understand why you didn't take them up on the offer - seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Now you are faced with trying to offload a possibly misidentified spider.


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

Ally said:


> Very good point!
> 
> I've not had the opportunity to have an up close look at one of those, I only have the normal colour ones... *adds to the wish list*


I
Lucky me then cos ive got lots of sexed 'Gold' sub adults :2thumb:


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

PeterUK said:


> I
> Lucky me then cos ive got lots of sexed 'Gold' sub adults :2thumb:


Didnt you do a breeding project with these some time last year Peter..?


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

MaskFac3 said:


> Because colours in vertebrates are pigments as therefore morphs are caused by a deffective gene causing lack of/different pigment inverts are different so they can't have 'morphs'



Pigment is pigment isnt it ?

Why are inverts different ?

I have Holothele incei, normal and gold. 
Both from the same egg sac. If the Golds are bred together the resulting offspring will be 100% Gold. 
Is this not a colour morph ?


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Lopez said:


> TSS offered you the opportunity to exchange it for a "definite" G.pulchra of a similar size, I don't understand why you didn't take them up on the offer - seems perfectly reasonable to me.
> 
> Now you are faced with trying to offload a possibly misidentified spider.


I can't have anymore T's so I would just be swapping it and re-selling it anyway and im well aware of the fact that im selling a mystery T


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

Pleco07 said:


> I can't have anymore T's so I would just be swapping it and re-selling it anyway and im well aware of the fact that im selling a mystery T


I think the point that Leon is trying to make is that it'd be much easier to sell a G. pulchra than an unidentified one if that's what it is. You could probably make yourself more money that way too as you've probably found people don't want to pay much for an unidentified or questionable identity.


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Craig Mackay said:


> I think the point that Leon is trying to make is that it'd be much easier to sell a G. pulchra than an unidentified one if that's what it is. You could probably make yourself more money that way too as you've probably found people don't want to pay much for an unidentified or questionable identity.


I understand that but I don't wanna go around the houses to sell it. I know selling an unidentified T is less disirable to some any holds less value.


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## Dr3d (Jul 31, 2010)

Pleco07 said:


> I can't have anymore T's so I would just be swapping it and re-selling it anyway and im well aware of the fact that im selling a mystery T


 
I'll buy it from you  name the price your looking for


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Dr3d said:


> I'll buy it from you  name the price your looking for


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/invert-classifieds/837149-unknown-tarantula-sale.html


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

MaskFac3 said:


> Because colours in vertebrates are pigments as therefore morphs are caused by a deffective gene causing lack of/different pigment inverts are different so they can't have 'morphs'


You get pigments in invertebrates...plants...fungi...etc. Not all the colour in arachnids is structural colour. 

Pigments are not exclusive to mammalian skin - chlorophyll being the most obvious non mammalian 'pigment'. 

A deficiency or variation in the pigment could be argued to be a 'morph' - I guess the difference is that no one keeping arachnids at the minute tends to care that much to line breed them towards being a fixed state like you do in reptiles.


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## stevemusson (Oct 16, 2010)

If you're not happy email TSS. They do make mistakes as like most shops they buy a bulk of slings and have to kinda trust the seller. You can never ID a 1cm grammy sling lol


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

Dr3d said:


> I'll buy it from you  name the price your looking for


Are you buying it mate? If not I could buy it on FRiday. I like the colour of it, at least in the pics. A black booty and what appears to be a chestnut brown carapace and legs... 

I might email that boy from a few months ago and see if he be up for a threesome with his G.rosea and B.klassi :whistling2:

Seriously though. If you have no takers for Friday then I'll have her/it mate..


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

stevemusson said:


> If you're not happy email TSS. They do make mistakes as like most shops they buy a bulk of slings and have to kinda trust the seller. You can never ID a 1cm grammy sling lol


Please read the whole thread, I emailed TSS about a year ago and they said they would replace it with a G. pulchra.



kris74 said:


> Seriously though. If you have no takers for Friday then I'll have her/it mate..


Had a few people interested, will let you know.


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## septicrazorwire (Aug 2, 2011)

Well to me it looks like a p.cancerides with the bronze colour on the carapace


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

...The mystery tarantula is now sold...

Now to shift the last of the Dubia colony. Not sure which im more gutted about, selling the T or not having roaches anymore.​


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

The unknown tarantula has shed and is now black. I'll try and put a few pictures up of it over the weekend.


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

Here's a few picture of what he/she looks like now -




































(After looking at the photos on my computer I realised that my black and silver carpet probably wasn't the best background to take photos of a black a silver tarantula on, but hey at least something finally matches with my carpet :lol2: )


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## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Did you retain the cast?


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

Colosseum said:


> Did you retain the cast?


I kept the moult to send to Steve if that's what you mean?


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Amazing, looks like a totally diff spider! Good luck with it :2thumb:


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## Ged (Nov 9, 2009)

Pleco07 said:


> Amazing, looks like a totally diff spider! Good luck with it :2thumb:


When I first looked at it's tank from far away I thought another T had somehow got in as it had almost doubled in size and completely changed colour :lol2:


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