# hamster may need some help not sure.



## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

i have a male syrian hamster and ive noticed that about a week a go his bits were bleeding i told my mom about it but she said he might have cut himself on something so i thought nothing of it and thought ill keep an eye on it just in case and since then i check him all over properly at least once a day, maybe twice if i get the chance but latelly ive noticed that he has some type of fluide coming from his bits but i dont know if its discharge or just watery bloody cause its sort of a light pink colour and i dont know wat to think about it i thought it mght be an infection of some sort he seems alright other wise but i know from personal experince that they are very good at hiding thing like pain and that.

was just wondering wat u thought of it and if i shud take him to the vets.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Also he is about 1 year and and 3 or 4 months old. this might not seem that old but i can tell hes getting on abit. his furs started fining out and hes losing weight and for some reason walking into things that he knows defiately is there.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Yes, I think he needs to see a vet as the behaviour you are describing isnt that of a normal healthy hamster. My last hammy lived until he was 4 years old so I wouldnt consider yours an old one
He could well have a urinary infection


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> Yes, I think he needs to see a vet as the behaviour you are describing isnt that of a normal healthy hamster. My last hammy lived until he was 4 years old so I wouldnt consider yours an old one
> He could well have a urinary infection


im suppose to be going on holiday soon as well in fact in the next couple of days and im probs not gonna hve the money for it until after i get back i think. but ill figure something out and get him sorted. my last hammi died of with a renal proplase and unfortunately i got there late but he also had an infection in his bits dont think it was a urinary infection like. How do they get a urinary infection now???? cause he is cleaned out every week and some times he does get bad but ive not notice it that much.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> im suppose to be going on holiday soon as well in fact in the next couple of days and im probs not gonna hve the money for it until after i get back i think. but ill figure something out and get him sorted. my last hammi died of with a renal proplase and unfortunately i got there late but he also had an infection in his bits dont think it was a urinary infection like. How do they get a urinary infection now???? cause he is cleaned out every week and some times he does get bad but ive not notice it that much.


i mean im holding him now and it looks like some of his fur is quite thick but around his head its gone quite thin, and he is still quite thin compaired to wat he use to be like, but there is no swelling or anything on his bits or his stomach and as far as i can tell hes peeing normally.


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## invasion (Nov 20, 2010)

I have to say the fact that you are asking "should you take him to the vets" ..really does say to me: you know you should!

You cant go on holiday and leave this little fella, he may be suffering, and he cant tell you can he ??

A small exotic consultation is around £8 at the vets

Take him in today!


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

invasion said:


> I have to say the fact that you are asking "should you take him to the vets" ..really does say to me: you know you should!
> 
> You cant go on holiday and leave this little fella, he may be suffering, and he cant tell you can he ??
> 
> ...


yea i know i shudnt leave him suffering but honestly he dont look like it but if he does get worse i will tell u now that ill do the best that i can do to help him get better even if i have to pay like £100 to get him better ill do it. Plus there are other people living here as well and i am going to get my mom to check him everyday but i told my mom about it and she said well if he seems normal and doesnt seem like hes uncomfortable or in any pain and it remians pink while im gone he will be okay if it gets worse im sure my mom will take him to the vets if needed. and i know i shud but to be fair he does seem alright if he gets worse before i go i will def stay and im only an hour away if something is wrong.

im only going to center parks in nottingham and i live in rawmarsh so not that far away.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> yea i know i shudnt leave him suffering but honestly he dont look like it but if he does get worse i will tell u now that ill do the best that i can do to help him get better even if i have to pay like £100 to get him better ill do it. Plus there are other people living here as well and i am going to get my mom to check him everyday but i told my mom about it and she said well if he seems normal and doesnt seem like hes uncomfortable or in any pain and it remians pink while im gone he will be okay if it gets worse im sure my mom will take him to the vets if needed. and i know i shud but to be fair he does seem alright if he gets worse before i go i will def stay and im only an hour away if something is wrong.
> 
> im only going to center parks in nottingham and i live in rawmarsh so not that far away.


That is hardly the point I'm afraid - this animal needs to see a vet regardless of who takes him; never mind waiting to see how he goes. You have no idea if he's suffering - prey animals hide pain and illness well so as not to tip off predators they're an easy meal. 
Bleeding needs to be seen to by a vet! You take him; your mum take him - either way he needs to see someone.
If a child was bleeding from his urinary tract you'd be rushing him to the docs without hesitation, and in an ideal world this should be no different for our animals. Their lives are in our hands, they depend on us.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> That is hardly the point I'm afraid - this animal needs to see a vet regardless of who takes him; never mind waiting to see how he goes. You have no idea if he's suffering - prey animals hide pain and illness well so as not to tip off predators they're an easy meal.
> Bleeding needs to be seen to by a vet! You take him; your mum take him - either way he needs to see someone.
> If a child was bleeding from his urinary tract you'd be rushing him to the docs without hesitation, and in an ideal world this should be no different for our animals. Their lives are in our hands, they depend on us.


im sorry but i asked if he needed help urgently wasnt all to sure about it u know. ive seen no difference in his behaviour wat so ever hes eating and drinking normally i keep him clean as well ive started cleaning him out every 2 days now. there is no sign of swelling on his abdomen or anything. and there is only a slight hint of pink coming from his bits which i am monitoring. i check him every day both when i wake up and before i go to sleep and if im in during the day i check then to and im not going anywhere in the next couple of days and if he gets worser ill take him in straight away. ive had a lot of people who i know said just wiat and see how he goes cause it might not be anything could be a cut on his bits thats trying to hell but not closing properly and with the care he gets thats a lot more likely. hes also not my first hamster i know all the do and donts and i have a very keen eye for spotting things especially my pets behaviour changing. im sorry but wat uve just said i find it very insulting u know. if u would have just said i think u should take him in i would have been alright with that and more than likely taken him in. thinking it would be best to. but now uve just basically insulted the way i take care of my animals and implying i dont know anything at all. before my last hamster died i spent about a total of good knows how many hours in a libary reading up on it just in case and that weekend he took a turn for the worst while i wasnt there when i got back he was in a bad state so i took him to the vets straight away even though i didnt have any money at the time. luckly my mom did. and i took him in and told the vet that hes been acting strangely over the past day or so and that he wasnt eating he wasnt pooing and he seemed very sensitive around his stomach and that vets told me that he had infection in his bits (not a urinary infection) and he gave him some meds right there told me that for the mean time i should keep him confined to a small area warm and with fresh water and everything told me that if i wanted to help with the blockage i could give him olive oil and so i did. then the next day i saw him moving around checked on him picked him up and everything and then went back to bed for another hour when i got up later there was blood every where i carefully picked him up to have a look and all his back end was bleedying i could wat i imagined to be his anus hanging out took him to the vets and they told me i could go either one of two ways i could have him put to sleep or he could have an op. even though i was quite upset i choose to have him put down because i knew it wasnt right to let him go through an op and all that pain and that it was best to let him have a fairly peacful death, at the time i was crying my eyes out i was really heart broken cause i spent about every day since i got him playin with him, altogther i spent nearly 200 pounds on him improving his home and everything. i bloody loved that hamster and i was absolutly torn up about it i know its only hamster like but he was a lot more to me. he was special in many ways so is paddy to me. 

P.S sorry about the rant lol.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

shadow05 said:


> there is only a slight hint of pink coming from his bits


*Any* pink is too much pink.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> [Lots o' text]


At no point was I trying to insult your animal keeping and I apologise if it came across that way (believe me, you would know if I was trying to attack you, I don't hold back)
I was simply stating that waiting is not an option when an animal is bleeding. He could have a urinary infection; he could have just cut himself. A vet needs to see him to make sure, and it gives you peace of mind as well. He could be given something to stop the bleeding and heal him faster, ease the pain if there is any.
He really does need to see a vet if he is bleeding, that is all I have really said.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> At no point was I trying to insult your animal keeping and I apologise if it came across that way (believe me, you would know if I was trying to attack you, I don't hold back)
> I was simply stating that waiting is not an option when an animal is bleeding. He could have a urinary infection; he could have just cut himself. A vet needs to see him to make sure, and it gives you peace of mind as well. He could be given something to stop the bleeding and heal him faster, ease the pain if there is any.
> He really does need to see a vet if he is bleeding, that is all I have really said.


i apoligize too if i overacted but at the end of the day its is a small amount of pink hardly noticable and if i hadnt thought to check i wouldnt hve known about it and ive checked him again and it seems to have chnaged colour but i know i shouldnt just settle with that so i will continue to monitor him carefully, but he seems to be quite happy hes been sleeping and then has just got on his wheel which he rarely does but im not always here to see it so i dont know if its normal or abnormal. he seems perfectly normal to me the same as always. very laid back and prefers to be left to him self. and hes freindly as always never has bite me or anyone else.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> i apoligize too if i overacted but at the end of the day its is a small amount of pink hardly noticable and if i hadnt thought to check i wouldnt hve known about it and ive checked him again and it seems to have chnaged colour but i know i shouldnt just settle with that so i will continue to monitor him carefully, but he seems to be quite happy hes been sleeping and then has just got on his wheel which he rarely does but im not always here to see it so i dont know if its normal or abnormal. he seems perfectly normal to me the same as always. very laid back and prefers to be left to him self. and hes freindly as always never has bite me or anyone else.


But i assure u if he takes a turn for the worse i will definately take him to the vets straight away. even if its means missing my holiday or anything. and i wont let him suffer either even if its costs me god knows how much for some medician i will get him it if not and hes suffering really bad and if i cant do anything for him and neither can the vets i will have him put to sleep.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

shadow05 said:


> Also he is about 1 year and and 3 or 4 months old. this might not seem that old but i can tell hes getting on abit.* his furs started fining out and hes losing weight and for some reason walking into things that he knows defiately is there*.


 
But he does have other symptoms, you said it yourself. He really does need to see a vet


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

shadow05 said:


> But i assure u if he takes a turn for the worse


The only "turn for the worse" you are likely to see is finding him dead in his cage, Shadow.... rodents especially are VERY good at hiding how sick they are until it's too late to treat them.

You've seen a clear sign that something is WRONG with him - do not ignore that sign, book him a vet's appointment first thing tomorrow morning to be seen by a vet the same day.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

You did actually say in your first post on Thursday that you'd seen blood about a week ago. Take him to a vet - if you are going on holiday, however near or far, surely he will be on your mind. Much better to get it sorted out beforehand.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> But he does have other symptoms, you said it yourself. He really does need to see a vet


no for some reason his fur is going back to normal now dont know why all of it is back apart from his head but i think the losing the fur part was because i moved him to a new cage and he got stressed. hes been back in his old one for about 3 weeks now and hes back to normal he doesnt walk into things anymore hes hasnt hurt himself as well. and his fur seems to be coming back as well.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> You did actually say in your first post on Thursday that you'd seen blood about a week ago. Take him to a vet - if you are going on holiday, however near or far, surely he will be on your mind. Much better to get it sorted out beforehand.


look i know wat im doing okay i will make the decision but id rather not stress him out even more if there isnt anything wrong with him its too cold outside anyways to take him to a vet. and i have nothing to take him in either. if something happens when i am away then my mom will deal with it. both me and her know wat we are doing. i know i have a responsibility as an owner and i will step in when needed other than that i wont inter fear, he is usually left to himself and he is one private hamster i know myself tht he prefers to be left alone. if he is sick i will interfer. the reason im not now is cause i have no concrete evidence to suggest that there is something seriously wrong with him. hes not in pain no matter how much u say he can hide it small animals may be able to hide it from an average person but not from there owner who knows them quite well, they tend to know something is wrong at the moment his personaly and his daily schedule of wat he does is normally to he spent most of last night keeping me awake as usual so cant be much wrong with him.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

and i do know that hamsters in particular are quite vulnerably to urinary infection as well as many other things. it is one of the things i check for the most.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

shadow05 said:


> if he is sick i will interfer. the reason im not now is cause i have no concrete evidence to suggest that there is something seriously wrong with him.


There is blood in his urine. That is a sign of sickness - of "something seriously wrong".



> hes not in pain no matter how much u say he can hide it small animals may be able to hide it from an average person but not from there owner who knows them quite well


With the greatest of respect, you're talking cobblers.

No matter how much you love your pet or think you know it, small mammals are DESIGNED to hide any weakness until they're so sick they CAN'T hide it any more - and by that time it is almost always too late to do anything about it. You might notice "slightly out of sorts" - or signs like blood in the urine - but you aren't going to see major signs of illness unless he's so sick that a vet's unlikely to be able to do anything about it.

"Too cold to go to the vet". No, it isn't. If you have access to ANY kind of transport - and that includes public transport, by the way - it isn't too cold if you're careful about what and how you transport him. I've carried a snake home from the vet in snow worse than this. The trick is simple: put the animal into a container. Put the container up your shirt. Voila, warm animal.

"Nothing to carry him in". You mean you don't have a cardboard box? Anywhere in your house? Really? Or a plastic tub you can put air holes into?

It seems to me you're making excuses not to take him to the vet, for whatever reason. 

I hope that you do not come back after your holiday (have fun; I have delayed and cancelled trips in order to make sure animals are OK because _they can't take themselves to the vet_) to find that your hamster has gone to the big Habitrail in the sky because you did not take him to the vet when you noticed that there was a problem - and have actually delayed a further week in doing so from when you first noticed the problem.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Without trying to sound unpleasant or harsh or anything along those lines, when is it you are going on holiday?
Because it's not difficult ringing up and making an appointment for Monday or Tuesday, take him in, vet sees him for 5-10 minutes, possibly prescribes something... job done. It's not an arduous task for your mum either if you're going away quite soon.
I've been in a similar situation in the past with a male Syrian myself, except I had school commitments and he was dying of old age rather than an illness. I just asked my parents to take him to the vets in my stead and do what needed to be done - I was 9 years old at the time.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

anyways im not talkin about it any further now im just basically getting told off for something when the situation isnt that bad. i also have other pets as well as him, i also have other responsibiltys like collage. I know myself when the time is right to take him in at the moment i dont see much of a reason to take him in. a bus ride plus the cold would probably stress him out to much. i know hamsters can be hardy animals but i doubt i bus ride would go down well for him. at the moment hes sleeping, happy, getting fine and everything the only problem is he has a small spot of lite pink blood coming from his bits and before i found that i found pure blood the next day after that i went back and found he had somehow cut his bits not deep or anything more like a scrath. at the moment i see know ppoint in taking him to the vets and upsetting him further when he seems alright in himself. anyways im gonna go and clean him out and get him ready for when i go away.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

So... you made a thread asking if your hamster - that is bleeding from his genitals - needs to see a vet. You are told by several people he needs to see a vet, for you to then turn around and say he's fine...

Wow... words fail me...


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## smileybones (Jan 16, 2007)

Shadow - you asked the advice of the forum whether to take your hamster to the vet or not. Everyone has suggested that you *do* take your pet to the vet. 

Please understand that people are worried and are providing you with sound advice but you aren't accepting it and I'm not sure why as you obviously care about your hamster, but by not visiting the vets you are potentially risking your pets life.

A healthy hamster doesn't bleed from its bits, even a small amount isn't normal. 

Please accept the good advice from those on the forum, they are concerned and I'm certain you won't want to come home from holiday to find your pet had passed away when you have got the opportunity to do something now.


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## smileybones (Jan 16, 2007)

Ophexis said:


> So... you made a thread asking if your hamster - that is bleeding from his genitals - needs to see a vet. You are told by several people he needs to see a vet, for you to then turn around and say he's fine...
> 
> Wow... words fail me...


You beat me to it!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

When my sister and I were younger, not kids, we each had our own homes.
She had a hamster that I thought needed to go to the vet. He had, as the OP is saying, 'pink bits' and was overgrooming that area.
My sister decided he 'was fine' and refused to take him to the vet. She found him within a few days dead as he had eaten his own testicles with the pain.

I have no idea what was actually wrong with this hamster, it was over 25 years ago now, but I hate to think of the pain that poor little creature went through without showing an inkling that he was in pain at all.
I've had many male hams named after him over the years....poor little thing!


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

shadow05 said:


> anyways im not talkin about it any further now im just basically getting told off for something when the situation isnt that bad. i also have other pets as well as him, i also have other responsibiltys like collage. I know myself when the time is right to take him in at the moment i dont see much of a reason to take him in. *a bus ride plus the cold would probably stress him out to much*. i know hamsters can be hardy animals but i doubt i bus ride would go down well for him. at the moment hes sleeping, happy, getting fine and everything the only problem is he has a small spot of lite pink blood coming from his bits and before i found that i found pure blood the next day after that i went back and found he had somehow cut his bits not deep or anything more like a scrath. at the moment i see know ppoint in taking him to the vets and upsetting him further when he seems alright in himself. anyways im gonna go and clean him out and get him ready for when i go away.


load of crap , ive today in snow had a hairless rat out for his eye removed and hes fine. stop making excuses he cant take himself


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`m speachless. :gasp:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

shadow05 said:


> i have a male syrian hamster and *ive noticed that about a week a go his bits were bleeding* i told my mom about it but she said he might have cut himself on something so i thought nothing of it and thought ill keep an eye on it just in case and since then i check him all over properly at least once a day, maybe twice if i get the chance but latelly *ive noticed that he has some type of fluide coming from his bits but i dont know if its discharge or just watery bloody cause its sort of a light pink colour* and i dont know wat to think about it i thought it mght be an infection of some sort he seems alright other wise but i know from personal experince that they are very good at hiding thing like pain and that.
> 
> was just wondering wat u thought of it and if i shud take him to the vets.





shadow05 said:


> Also he is about 1 year and and 3 or 4 months old. this might not seem that old but i can tell hes getting on abit. *his furs started fining out and hes losing weight and for some reason walking into things that he knows defiately is there*.





shadow05 said:


> *i* mean im holding him now and it looks like some of his fur is quite thick but *around his head its gone quite thin, and he is still quite thin compaired to wat he use to be like*, but there is no swelling or anything on his bits or his stomach and as far as i can tell hes peeing normally.





shadow05 said:


> *no for some reason his fur is going back to normal now dont know why all of it is back apart from his head but i think the losing the fur part was because i moved him to a new cage and he got stressed. hes been back in his old one for about 3 weeks now and hes back to normal he doesnt walk into things anymore hes hasnt hurt himself as well. and his fur seems to be coming back as well*.


 

He was losing weight, had thin fur and was bumping into things and in 2 days hes mended. Its a miracle :gasp: Lets hope his other problem mends as easily. Pets really do deserve better people


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

Why did you bother posting if your not going to take anyones advice seriously? You told everyone what was wrong and asked if you should take him to the vets. People have said yes, take it to vets and now your more or less arguing you dont need to. Point? 

Your pets symptoms may not be that serious at this exact moment in time, but it doesnt take long for the well being of an animal, especially a small mammal to deteriorate rapidly if left untreated for any amount of time!

If it is an infection it could easily turn septic and as soon as something like that happens it deffinatly would be too late to do anything about it.

If you are having trouble caring for your hammy financially or not having the time due going on your holiday would it not be in the best interests of the animal to give it to a rescue who can attend to its needs asap? Not saying you dont care, give attention to or research about your animals but judging by your posts you dont seem to prioritise him enough to take him to the vet when he needs it. 

How long would you wait to go to doctor if you had blood in your urine, hmmm?


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

right ive just checked him again for the 3 time since yesterday and the fluid that was coming from his bits is not pink or any other colour. a couple of days ago he did have a cut there but i think its healed up. ill check him again tmmorow in the morning ill have a proper look cause up to yet i havent gently scewised his bits to see if any discharge or anything comes out and if it goes back to pink ill take him to the vets. the reason i posted on this was cause at the time i wasnt sure and it was still pink in the last 2 or 3 days its cleared up a bit and now i dont see any need to take him. thats why, not because i was being cruel or nasty or even ignorant. i have go money but not alot and if it is between me going on holiday or take paddy to the vets i would obviously take paddy. if he fell ill why i was away id come back straight away meanwhile my mom would take him to the vets both me and my mom are aware and prepared if he takes even the slightest turn for the worse. at the moment hes quite annoyed with me for waking him up to check him and ruining his little home lol he is actually making sqeaking sounds at me like as if hes telling me off lol.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

right does it seem fair enough to everyone that if i see that he has that pink stuff coming from his bits again that i take him to the vets. but only if i see it again or anything worse obviously.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

shadow05 said:


> right does it seem fair enough to everyone that if i see that he has that pink stuff coming from his bits again that i take him to the vets. but only if i see it again or anything worse obviously.


If you cared enough you would take him now. Iv noticed that some animals show signs of getting better before they die. Poor thing must be suffering like mad. If you are responsible as you try to make out you wouldnt leave him.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

selina20 said:


> If you cared enough you would take him now. Iv noticed that some animals show signs of getting better before they die. Poor thing must be suffering like mad. If you are responsible as you try to make out you wouldnt leave him.


right im sorry but yes he is my pet and i take full responsibility i couldnt take him last night the vets was shut and they charge a hell of alot for an emgency checkup pluse all the buses arent workin at that time either so i have no way of getting there everyone i know who has a car was fast asleep or either really busy. this morning even though the vets are closed im going to ask them about it and if they say he should come in then fine i will take him in. but i really dont think hes in pain or anything everyone is really over exadrating about this he is perfectly fine he was doing wat he does every night last night keeping me awake as usual so there cant be much wrong with him at all, hes eating fine drinking fine even going to the toilet okay and trust me i know he is.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

shadow05 said:


> right im sorry but yes he is my pet and i take full responsibility i couldnt take him last night the vets was shut and they charge a hell of alot for an emgency checkup pluse all the buses arent workin at that time either so i have no way of getting there everyone i know who has a car was fast asleep or either really busy. this morning even though the vets are closed im going to ask them about it and if they say he should come in then fine i will take him in. but i really dont think hes in pain or anything everyone is really over exadrating about this he is perfectly fine he was doing wat he does every night last night keeping me awake as usual so there cant be much wrong with him at all, hes eating fine drinking fine even going to the toilet okay and trust me i know he is.


From what you have said in this thread i doubt it will have cleared up in 2 days. I have followed this thread and was refraining from commenting but i feel you dont quite understand what might happen to him.

Good on you for giving the vets a call.


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

People arent over exaggerating they are giving you advice based on what you origially said yourself....lol


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Jamiioo said:


> People arent over exaggerating they are giving you advice based on what you origially said yourself....lol


right ive not been able to call the vets today and ask apartenly u cant talk to them about it or anything for some reason, so tmmorow morning i am def gonna call before i go i leave tmmorow at one so i am going to talk to them about it and book an oppointment for him and let the vet take a look and get him some treatment and stuff and get back here quickly to be picked up and then my mom is going to take it from there. but i think hell be okay. the pink fluid has come back again dont know why it keeps coming and going wish it would make its mind up.

i havent got anything proper to transport him so ive just got a plastic biscuit container and made a load of small holes in it and im gonna take him in that with a load of bedding and stuff and try and keep him as warm as possible.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> right ive not been able to call the vets today and ask apartenly u cant talk to them about it or anything for some reason, so tmmorow morning i am def gonna call before i go i leave tmmorow at one so i am going to talk to them about it and book an oppointment for him and let the vet take a look and get him some treatment and stuff and get back here quickly to be picked up and then my mom is going to take it from there. but i think hell be okay. the pink fluid has come back again dont know why it keeps coming and going wish it would make its mind up.
> 
> i havent got anything proper to transport him so ive just got a plastic biscuit container and made a load of small holes in it and im gonna take him in that with a load of bedding and stuff and try and keep him as warm as possible.


i will let u all know how it goes if i have enought time when i get back.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Why dont you guys stop flaming so much? I know this hamster in fact i see him every few days as shad is my gf, he lives in a very nice clean home and gets looked after very well, it is unfortunately that he has gotten a little sick and she is going to take him to the vets and if she needs the money i will find somway of making sure she has it. But these things arent easy for a student with limited fianances and transport.

Fact is it doesnt warrant people being jackasses, shadow doesnt always come across well in text but she does care for her hamster and does feel like shes being attacked for how he's been treated when i know and she knows shes taking brilliant care of him.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

op posted asking for advice
lots of people gave it
op didnt like the advice
so goes off at the deep end.

people are getting a bit upset because they dont like to see a pet in pain or distress, and an owner is responsible for veterinary care.
simple point is, if you cant afford treatment, dont get the pet.

if you find what people have posted offensive you can use the snitch button
or
put the people who upset you on your blocked list
or 
pm a mod to close the thread
or 
just stop posting on it and then it wont keep being pushed to the top?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> op posted asking for advice
> lots of people gave it
> op didnt like the advice
> so goes off at the deep end.
> ...


 I respect this but people could post it in a nicer manner! Fact is ive seen hamsters kept in a much worst condition, he is going to see the vet aswell so why cant people accept tht?


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

CPT BJ said:


> I respect this but people could post it in a nicer manner! Fact is ive seen hamsters kept in a much worst condition, he is going to see the vet aswell so why cant people accept tht?


We can fully accept the fact the the hamster is now seeing a vet, the OP gets kudos for that.
But it doesn't change the fact she asked for advice about taking it to the vet, was told to take it to the vet, to then turn around and say the hamster's fine, it doesn't need to see a vet despite the bleeding and then started getting aggressive over repeated attempts to persuade her to take it to a vet. *That* is what was yanking people's chains. People tried to keep conversation pleasant but when an animal may be in distress it's difficult to remain as such.
But if the hamster is seeing the vet sharpish then the matter can be resolved in less than 24 hours.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> We can fully accept the fact the the hamster is now seeing a vet, the OP gets kudos for that.
> But it doesn't change the fact she asked for advice about taking it to the vet, was told to take it to the vet, to then turn around and say the hamster's fine, it doesn't need to see a vet despite the bleeding and then started getting aggressive over repeated attempts to persuade her to take it to a vet. *That* is what was yanking people's chains.
> But if the hamster is seeing the vet sharpish then the matter can be resolved in less than 24 hours.


 I respect that, but you dont understand how the OP was feeling ive spoke to her on the phone today and she is taking the hamster to the vet, i dont think she took him sooner as she didnt have any money at all and didnt wanna stress him out more by taking him to the vets on the bus in the snow. And i think she was upset as she was being told to do things which she wanted to do but knew she couldnt (at the time). Fact is its been resolved now so people shouldnt continue to be nasty about it.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Possibly didn't help matters that the OP posted on Thursday that she first noticed it a week or so before.

Anyway, lets hope she can get to the vets and that we don't have (or certainly in her area) more falls of snow overnight, and that the little guy can get sorted.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Stephen P said:


> Possibly didn't help matters that the OP posted on Thursday that she first noticed it a week or so before.
> 
> Anyway, lets hope she can get to the vets and that we don't have (or certainly in her area) more falls of snow overnight, and that the little guy can get sorted.


 I know but whats done is done now i guess, i hope theres no more snow either going on holiday tommorrow and i hope my dad can get back ok to keep an eye on the pets lol.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Why dont you guys stop flaming so much? I know this hamster in fact i see him every few days as shad is my gf, he lives in a very nice clean home and gets looked after very well, it is unfortunately that he has gotten a little sick and she is going to take him to the vets and if she needs the money i will find somway of making sure she has it. But these things arent easy f*or a student with limited fianances and transpor*t.
> 
> Fact is it doesnt warrant people being jackasses, shadow doesnt always come across well in text but she does care for her hamster and does feel like shes being attacked for how he's been treated when i know and she knows shes taking brilliant care of him.





CPT BJ said:


> I respect that, but you dont understand how the OP was feeling ive spoke to her on the phone today and she is taking the hamster to the vet, i dont think she took him sooner as she didnt have any money at all and d*idnt wanna stress him out more by taking him to the vets on the bus in the snow*. And i think she was upset as she was being told to do things which she wanted to do but knew she couldnt (at the time). Fact is its been resolved now so people shouldnt continue to be nasty about it.


im sorry this is a cop out
i have limited finances but if my pets need a vet they get it and i do without. i also have to rely on buses, i caght a bus in the cold and snow to get my rat to the vet on saturday and shelled out a small fortune to have his eye removed. i also forked out more for a taxi to bring him home after his op.. so sorry but the excuses dont wash with me as they wont with other people. we only had the details which she gave to go and and it sounded serious so should of taken him to the vets we are not vets. pets rely on us to take care of them at the end of the day


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> im sorry this is a cop out
> i have limited finances but if my pets need a vet they get it and i do without. i also have to rely on buses, i caght a bus in the cold and snow to get my rat to the vet on saturday and shelled out a small fortune to have his eye removed. i also forked out more for a taxi to bring him home after his op.. so sorry but the excuses dont wash with me as they wont with other people. we only had the details which she gave to go and and it sounded serious so should of taken him to the vets we are not vets. pets rely on us to take care of them at the end of the day


 What you dont realise is that when i saw 'limited fianances' i mean no money whatso ever, its not like thinking 'oh ill go without that new video game' this week when you have no money you have no choice.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> What you dont realise is that when i saw 'limited fianances' i mean no money whatso ever, its not like thinking 'oh ill go without that new video game' this week when you have no money you have no choice.


yet you can go on holiday
to center parcs...i know center parcs aint cheap


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve had to pay a vet bill bit at a time till it was payed off before, and got behind on the rent

but i have a good vet who knows my tribe will go wether i can afford it or not.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> yet you can go on holiday
> to center parcs...i know center parcs aint cheap


 Ha ha shows what little understanding you have, my parents booked this trip months ago and it was a cheap one, shadow is my gf my parents offered for her to come along. 

So this isnt relevant.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Either way i will make sure myself that he goes to a vet ASAP, and if she needs money i will find some way of making sure that she gets it.

Stop taking a moral high ground if you were in the same situation im sure you'd be doing the same thing.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

CPT BJ said:


> Ha ha shows what little understanding you have, my parents booked this trip months ago and it was a cheap one, shadow is my gf my parents offered for her to come along.
> 
> So this isnt relevant.


Not to make mountains out of molehills here but then surely if there was something wrong with her pet, since she had no financial commitment to this holiday she could cancel and take the hamster? I'm sure you'd understand as well if she needed to take a rain check because one of her animals was in distress?
And no trip to Center Parcs is cheap - I've gone myself on their version of a 'cheap' holiday with my parents and my goodness, there was still so much money having to be spent it was unreal!

But yeah, I hope the animal is alright and the vet helps him out. At the end of the day he's been seen to now, which is all that matters.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Ha ha shows what little understanding you have, my parents booked this trip months ago and it was a cheap one, shadow is my gf my parents offered for her to come along.
> 
> So this isnt relevant.


right so its ok for the hamster to go without seeing a vet then. your obviously showing even less understanding or can he take himself?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> Not to make mountains out of molehills here but then surely if there was something wrong with her pet, since she had no financial commitment to this holiday she could cancel and take the hamster? I'm sure you'd understand as well if she needed to take a rain check because one of her animals was in distress?
> And no trip to Center Parcs is cheap - I've gone myself on their version of a 'cheap' holiday with my parents and my goodness, there was still so much money having to be spent it was unreal!


 I know that is true she can and i wouldnt mind at all infact i even told her this, but she has been looking forward to this for a long time so i cant inpact her decision and i know it isnt cheap but my parents are paying for it so i cant really say tbh as i dont know how much it costs etc...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

At the end of the day if she cant provide the proper care for the animal cos shes a student then she shouldnt have one end of.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

must put popcorn on shopping list


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Either way i will make sure myself that he goes to a vet ASAP, and if she needs money i will find some way of making sure that she gets it.
> 
> Stop taking a moral high ground if you were in the same situation im sure you'd be doing the same thing.


if thats aimed at me your dead wrong, read my post again about trudging out in the snow and paying a fortune. my pets if im worried about them go to the vets same day anything else be damned


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> right so its ok for the hamster to go without seeing a vet then. your obviously showing even less understanding or can he take himself?


 Its not ok, but fact is your just picking at random things now hes going to see a vet so why dont you just let it drop?


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Its not ok, but fact is your just picking at random things now hes going to see a vet so why dont you just let it drop?


no its not ok 
good he should of gone to the vet days ago


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> if thats aimed at me your dead wrong, read my post again about trudging out in the snow and paying a fortune. my pets if im worried about them go to the vets same day anything else be damned


 Im not gonna argue ok but the point im making is that the buses may not even run depending how bad snow gets and were not you ok?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> At the end of the day if she cant provide the proper care for the animal cos shes a student then she shouldnt have one end of.


 He's had excellent care for the past 18 months and i help where ever i can.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> Im not gonna argue ok but the point im making is that the buses may not even run depending how bad snow gets and were not you ok?


There are such things as taxis nowadays.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> no its not ok
> good he should of gone to the vet days ago


 Fine he might have needed too but i wasnt even aware of this situation im telling you guys what i know, just think about it, if this were at a pet shop he probs would have been taken into the back room and killed at least we are trying and he will get whatever medical care he needs ok.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> He's had excellent care for the past 18 months and i help where ever i can.


Why havent you taken him to the vets then?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> There are such things as taxis nowadays.


 There are, and they cost a lot of money.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Im not gonna argue ok but the point im making is that the buses may not even run depending how bad snow gets and were not you ok?


oh for gods sake you clearly dont get it 
theres taxis, theres walking, theres friends with cars. you can throw whatever cop out you want my way but i dont care tbh ...if she was so worried he should of seen a vet


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> Why havent you taken him to the vets then?


 Well ive been at college for 4 full days and ive been at home caring for my own pets and ive not been very well, ive not been made aware of whats been going on untill today either.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> oh for gods sake you clearly dont get it
> theres taxis, theres walking, theres friends with cars. you can throw whatever cop out you want my way but i dont care tbh ...if she was so worried he should of seen a vet


 Ok, if she doesnt have any money she cant afford a taxi, the vets is a few miles away, walking in the snow wouldnt be very good, and end of the day it isnt me i cant speak for her. Fact is this thread was finished long ago, hes going to the vets, we will get a diagnosis and any treatment ok. Please let it drop people.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ami_j said:


> oh for gods sake you clearly dont get it
> theres taxis, theres walking, theres friends with cars. you can throw whatever cop out you want my way but i dont care tbh ...if she was so worried he should of seen a vet


I agree with you completely



CPT BJ said:


> Well ive been at college for 4 full days and ive been at home caring for my own pets and ive not been very well, ive not been made aware of whats been going on untill today either.


Well you obviously dont care for him that much then


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Fine he might have needed too but i wasnt even aware of this situation im telling you guys what i know, just think about it, if this were at a pet shop he probs would have been taken into the back room and killed at least we are trying and he will get whatever medical care he needs ok.


then she should of taken him. and to bring in what a pet shop might do is totally irrelevent


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Ok, if she doesnt have any money she cant afford a taxi, the vets is a few miles away, walking in the snow wouldnt be very good, and end of the day i*t isnt me i cant speak for her*. Fact is this thread was finished long ago, hes going to the vets, we will get a diagnosis and any treatment ok. Please let it drop people.


stop trying then 
im glad hes going to the vets , and i do hope the poor guy is ok


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> I agree with you completely
> 
> 
> 
> Well you obviously dont care for him that much then


 Well considering he's not my pet and ive been very busy myself i might not care asmuch is that a crime? Ive been incredibley busy this week, i wasnt even aware of this situation untill today so how could i care?

Its all well and good to preach this from behind a PC but what makes you an expert at dispensing life lessons and facts? Either way could a mod close this thread as im sure the OP will agree this isnt relevant anymore.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

ami_j said:


> stop trying then
> im glad hes going to the vets , and i do hope the poor guy is ok


 Ok then, im sure he'll be going tommorrow if she can get an appointment and it doesnt snow too badly overnight.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> Ok, if she doesnt have any money she cant afford a taxi, the vets is a few miles away, walking in the snow wouldnt be very good, and end of the day it isnt me i cant speak for her. Fact is this thread was finished long ago, hes going to the vets, we will get a diagnosis and any treatment ok. Please let it drop people.


I live 2 miles from my vets. If i cant afford a taxi i walk as no buses go near. I am pregnant have been in and out of hospital and have a toddler and still manage to do it even in this weather so im afraid i dont accept the excuses shown. Im not overly rich but should an animal need it i will bend over backwards for them even if it means i have to go without or borrow some money off a friend.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

CPT BJ said:


> Ok then, im sure he'll be going tommorrow if she can get an appointment and it doesnt snow too badly overnight.


lets hope not or the poor little bugger could be waiting even longer


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

or why not ask a neighbour? i`ve given people lifts to the vets before.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> I live 2 miles from my vets. If i cant afford a taxi i walk as no buses go near. I am pregnant have been in and out of hospital and have a toddler and still manage to do it even in this weather so im afraid i dont accept the excuses shown. Im not overly rich but should an animal need it i will bend over backwards for them even if it means i have to go without or borrow some money off a friend.


 Shadow lives closer to 10 miles or so away, its easier said than done borrowing the money, either way does it matter now everything has been resolved.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> or why not ask a neighbour? i`ve given people lifts to the vets before.


 You obviously havent been to rawmarsh before, most people dont care for their neighbours, anyways this is regardless he is going to see a vet, does it matter about the could have should haves?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> Shadow lives closer to 10 miles or so away, its easier said than done borrowing the money, either way does it matter now everything has been resolved.


not it isnt because as you said above she may not take him to the vets should the weather be bad. why not see if there is one of those animal ambulances near to you???


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

selina20 said:


> not it isnt because as you said above she may not take him to the vets should the weather be bad. why not see if there is one of those animal ambulances near to you???


 There isnt any, believe me shes spent most of today looking, he will go to the vets tommorrow im almost certain.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i live in crapsville too, but have still put other peoples vomiting dogs in my car.
can you not use the pdsa if you`re poor starving students?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Could everybody please leave it alone now as all this bitchyness just isnt helping matters as im sure you'll admitt yourselves.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> i live in crapsville too, but have still put other peoples vomiting dogs in my car.
> can you not use the pdsa if you`re poor starving students?


 The PDSA is even further away and i still think they'd need a donation, fact is he is going to get whatever medical care he needs no matter how much it costs.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

everyones allowed an opinion, and no-ones being bitchy, just stating the facts.

get your gf to pm a mod to get it closed if we`re traumatising you both.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> The PDSA is even further away and i still think they'd need a donation, fact is he is going to get whatever medical care he needs no matter how much it costs.


they dont `need` a donation, they ask for one. 
you cant give what you havnt got.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> everyones allowed an opinion, and no-ones being bitchy, just stating the facts.
> 
> get your gf to pm a mod to get it closed if we`re traumatising you both.


 I shouldnt have to, people should be mature enough to stop when politely asked.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> they dont `need` a donation, they ask for one.
> you cant give what you havnt got.


 Well we can remember that information . Ty.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Ill get shadow to give you an update tommorrow.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

CPT BJ said:


> I shouldnt have to, people should be mature enough to stop when politely asked.


stop arguing a case you cant win then and dragging it on.

hamsters been ill for weeks, hasnt seen a vet, dosnt sound like its going to because you`re too far from one and there might be a bit of snow and you have no money, despite the owner being legally responsible for its care and are comitting animal cruelty by withholding appropriate veterinary care.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Ok have followed this thread for some time now and to be honest regardless of weather this poor hamster needs to see the vets tomorrow without fail from what is being described this hamster has a problem and is most probably hiding just how ill it is. Now as much as i appreciate how hard it is for students and believe me I know as i live with one and he has to travel 30 miles a day to get to his uni ,this week we have had to shell out over £450 on vets bills for my pets in this case it is dogs but not the point we have had to go without food and he has had to get himself to uni with no money and the weather has been just as bad here as it is for you. He had to call in a few favours and owes some big style.
Others are upset because the OP waited so long to even commit to taking this poor guy to the vets and no one is questioning her care up to this moment. There main problem is the fact after being advised to get it to the vets asap she then said he had recovered and now admits that he hasnt, everyone has tried to give good advice and i know what I think, may be wrong which may not be to terrible but without the vets treating it the hamster could die, and I think the other point is if going on holiday, surely she has spending money that could of been spent on taking the hamster to the vets I may be wrong on this and if I am i apologise but i dont think I would go on holiday without having some money to spend


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> Ok have followed this thread for some time now and to be honest regardless of weather this poor hamster needs to see the vets tomorrow without fail from what is being described this hamster has a problem and is most probably hiding just how ill it is. Now as much as i appreciate how hard it is for students and believe me I know as i live with one and he has to travel 30 miles a day to get to his uni ,this week we have had to shell out over £450 on vets bills for my pets in this case it is dogs but not the point we have had to go without food and he has had to get himself to uni with no money and the weather has been just as bad here as it is for you. He had to call in a few favours and owes some big style.
> Others are upset because the OP waited so long to even commit to taking this poor guy to the vets and no one is questioning her care up to this moment. There main problem is the fact after being advised to get it to the vets asap she then said he had recovered and now admits that he hasnt, everyone has tried to give good advice and i know what I think, may be wrong which may not be to terrible but without the vets treating it the hamster could die, and I think the other point is if going on holiday, surely she has spending money that could of been spent on taking the hamster to the vets I may be wrong on this and if I am i apologise but i dont think I would go on holiday without having some money to spend


 I respect that but at the end of the day its all a learning experience and he will get the vet care that he needs, and if this happens again with any of her or my own pets they will go to the vets ASAP.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

vets are humans, if you dont have the money on you at the time they will generally allow you to defer payment until a later time. case and point is my last week. im a full time open university student alongside running my own body piercing buisness through a freinds salon. since i opened iv cleared a grand total of £0 profit. a few weeks ago one of my 5 month old ferrets became ill, i rushed him to the vets where he was diagnosed with insulinanoma (basicly he couldnt produce insulin) i was warned that this could seriously affect his immune system, came away with some tablets at a cost of £45. 2 weeks later takes us to this past friday, overnight he started fitting, i was on the vets doorstep at 8 o clock. he was kept in throughout the day (at an estimated cost of £150-£200) i agreed to pay whatever it took - he was 5 months old i wasnt giving up on him - on the grounds that i could pay it off gradually. he was diagnosed with advanced meningitis at 3 o clock on friday afternoon, by then he was unresponsive to anything and it was decided that the best thing would be to put him to sleep. my vet overruled the vets owner and only charged me £50 for the day. something i will be eternally grateful for.

what is the point of my little ramble you may ask? one thing: help is always there if you need it badly. my vet slogged his guts out to save tyrone, that he couldnt is not his fault, he could have asked me for a fortune that i dont have (iv struggled enough to pay the £95 i owed him - november could have been a better month cash wise) but he didnt. OP and OP's fella: im not trying to criticise you so please dont take this as an attack, just bear in mind what iv said, you dont ask you dont get. i hope your hamster is ok.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

miss_ferret said:


> vets are humans, if you dont have the money on you at the time they will generally allow you to defer payment until a later time. case and point is my last week. im a full time open university student alongside running my own body piercing buisness through a freinds salon. since i opened iv cleared a grand total of £0 profit. a few weeks ago one of my 5 month old ferrets became ill, i rushed him to the vets where he was diagnosed with insulinanoma (basicly he couldnt produce insulin) i was warned that this could seriously affect his immune system, came away with some tablets at a cost of £45. 2 weeks later takes us to this past friday, overnight he started fitting, i was on the vets doorstep at 8 o clock. he was kept in throughout the day (at an estimated cost of £150-£200) i agreed to pay whatever it took - he was 5 months old i wasnt giving up on him - on the grounds that i could pay it off gradually. he was diagnosed with advanced meningitis at 3 o clock on friday afternoon, by then he was unresponsive to anything and it was decided that the best thing would be to put him to sleep. my vet overruled the vets owner and only charged me £50 for the day. something i will be eternally grateful for.
> 
> what is the point of my little ramble you may ask? one thing: help is always there if you need it badly. my vet slogged his guts out to save tyrone, that he couldnt is not his fault, he could have asked me for a fortune that i dont have (iv struggled enough to pay the £95 i owed him - november could have been a better month cash wise) but he didnt. OP and OP's fella: im not trying to criticise you so please dont take this as an attack, just bear in mind what iv said, you dont ask you dont get. i hope your hamster is ok.


 Thats terrible to hear  and believe me we do know that little paddy should go to the vets ASAP but we havent been able to do so but now we are going to do so and we've learnt a lesson, we just dont need people carrying it on now reiterating what we already know!


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

While we're on the subject of Center Parcs, what are the odds they'd let me and 3 friends on the site when only one of us will be over 21 at the time of booking? :whistling2:
I've read the Terms and Conditions, being a repeat customer on several occasions with family, but they're not overly clear... in one instance they say you need the _majority_ of the party to be over 21 whilst in another clause they say you just need a responsible adult over 21 to take full responsibility for the party.
Although it's very telling that the younger members of the group (myself included) are more responsible than aforementioned 21 year old :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Agreed, the money is there if you try, I'm betting your internet connection wasn't free, and you'll need spending money in Centerparc too, plus 50p (cant afford more!) says one of you is a smoker, or fancies take out at some point, there'll be a fiver somewhere. Failing that, do as many will have to do sometimes, and take something down Cash Converters.

Computer? :2thumb:


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> While we're on the subject of Center Parcs, what are the odds they'd let me and 3 friends on the site when only one of us will be over 21 at the time of booking? :whistling2:
> I've read the Terms and Conditions but they're not overly clear... in one instance they say you need the _majority_ of the party to be over 21 whilst in another clause they say you just need a responsible adult over 21 to take full responsibility for the party.
> Although it's very telling that the younger members of the group (myself included) are more responsible than aforementioned 21 year old :lol2:


 I think they'd let you guys in, may be worth phoning and asking them first though.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Agreed, the money is there if you try, I'm betting your internet connection wasn't free, and you'll need spending money in Centerparc too, plus 50p (cant afford more!) says one of you is a smoker, or fancies take out at some point, there'll be a fiver somewhere. Failing that, do as many will have to do sometimes, and take something down Cash Converters.
> 
> Computer? :2thumb:


 My parents pay for internet so again cant really count tht i dont smoke, ive saved a little money for cp which im gonna use on the hamster (i didnt know about this untill today) and i havent had a take away in months.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

miss_ferret said:


> vets are humans, if you dont have the money on you at the time they will generally allow you to defer payment until a later time. case and point is my last week. im a full time open university student alongside running my own body piercing buisness through a freinds salon. since i opened iv cleared a grand total of £0 profit. a few weeks ago one of my 5 month old ferrets became ill, i rushed him to the vets where he was diagnosed with insulinanoma (basicly he couldnt produce insulin) i was warned that this could seriously affect his immune system, came away with some tablets at a cost of £45. 2 weeks later takes us to this past friday, overnight he started fitting, i was on the vets doorstep at 8 o clock. he was kept in throughout the day (at an estimated cost of £150-£200) i agreed to pay whatever it took - he was 5 months old i wasnt giving up on him - on the grounds that i could pay it off gradually. he was diagnosed with advanced meningitis at 3 o clock on friday afternoon, by then he was unresponsive to anything and it was decided that the best thing would be to put him to sleep. my vet overruled the vets owner and only charged me £50 for the day. something i will be eternally grateful for.
> 
> what is the point of my little ramble you may ask? one thing: help is always there if you need it badly. my vet slogged his guts out to save tyrone, that he couldnt is not his fault, he could have asked me for a fortune that i dont have (iv struggled enough to pay the £95 i owed him - november could have been a better month cash wise) but he didnt. OP and OP's fella: im not trying to criticise you so please dont take this as an attack, just bear in mind what iv said, you dont ask you dont get. i hope your hamster is ok.


I know exactly where you are coming from my future mother in law has had a similar situation a few months ago with her cats ended up with over £1,000 vets bill which she is stillpaying off and where she lives the vets are miles away and she has no transport at all and only her pension which as everyone knows is not a great amount. Her vets have been great to her and she is eternally grateful for their understanding. I can understand the OP not having money at themoment but a quick chat and complete honesty does help where vets are concerned and as long as they are paid in the long run they do understand and try to help as much as possible so it is worth the try. 
But please let us know what is wrong with this little guy


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

Im gonna go now and ill make sure the OP let you know what happens tommorrow or whenever she has access to the internet.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

If your parents are paying for everything as it is, why cant they pay for your hamster?

Are you in student housing or still at home? If you've moved out, and cant afford your own internet or a taxi, what made you think you could afford a pet?!


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> If your parents are paying for everything as it is, why cant they pay for your hamster?
> 
> Are you in student housing or still at home? If you've moved out, and cant afford your own internet or a taxi, what made you think you could afford a pet?!


 Its not my hamster, theres been some confusion, its my GF's hamster. And i pay for pretty much everything for my pets so hence i cant always afford to help out my gf's pets but i try to where i can.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

~It isnt his pet its his gf


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

In which case you need to tell your girlfriend to step up and care for herself/her own pets.

If she wants to play responsible grown up, she needs to act like one. If you're up this way I'm happy to take in the hamster and find it a new home with someone who gives a crap.

Edited to add: you're not up this way, sorry.


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> In which case you need to tell your girlfriend to step up and care for herself/her own pets.
> 
> If she wants to play responsible grown up, she needs to act like one. If you're up this way I'm happy to take in the hamster and find it a new home with someone who gives a crap.


 Believe me she does care, she looks after them brilliantly, they all live very happily and she does care believe me and i know shes been worrying frankly you should just shut up and read the thread properly. Im fed up of this BS as soon as the thread gets resolved and people realise hes going to the vets people come back on and instigate.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> In which case you need to tell your girlfriend to step up and care for herself/her own pets.
> 
> If she wants to play responsible grown up, she needs to act like one. If you're up this way I'm happy to take in the hamster and find it a new home with someone who gives a crap.
> 
> Edited to add: you're not up this way, sorry.


I am sorry but i think this comment is uncalled for as up to this point this hamster has obviously had good care and your comment isnt constructive like others have been. Money isobviously tight for the op and she is getting the hamster to the vets now with the help of her bf life is not always easy for studetns and as much as it should of been done sooner bf is now getting the hamster the care it needs to personally attack the op isnt helpful and may mean next time she doesnt come here to ask for advice on anything when she could of been helped. Construstive critism is fine but blatently attacking someone isnt


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> I am sorry but i think this comment is uncalled for as up to this point this hamster has obviously had good care and your comment isnt constructive like others have been. Money isobviously tight for the op and she is getting the hamster to the vets now with the help of her bf life is not always easy for studetns and as much as it should of been done sooner bf is now getting the hamster the care it needs to personally attack the op isnt helpful and may mean next time she doesnt come here to ask for advice on anything when she could of been helped. Construstive critism is fine but blatently attacking someone isnt


 Thank you very much for your understanding, im gonna make sure he gets everything he needs and you guys will all know ASAP. Im gonna go now as im fedup of all these insults.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You post on a forum, you cant choose the kind of replies you want - if you make excuses for mistreating animals (that's what avoiding the vets is, you know), you are not going to get fluffy happy responses. The fact of the matter is that your girlfriend cant afford to care for her pets properly. I'm hoping it's only poor hammy and not more pets too, but being a reptile forum, I'm guessing she has more than just a hamster.

TBH, when you say "ill make sure the OP let you know what happens tommorrow or whenever she has access to the internet." - it makes me think she'll take a week off the internet for her hols, then come back and say he's either better (without treatment), or mysteriously died. And that'll be it. Save a few quid on vets fees and fob folks off...


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

No thanx necessary I am just making the point that the comment wasnt helpful I can understand why you are fed up as it was insulting even to me Please dont let one individual get to you yes forums can be hard on ppl as you know but that to me was just way out of order


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> You post on a forum, you cant choose the kind of replies you want - if you make excuses for mistreating animals (that's what avoiding the vets is, you know), you are not going to get fluffy happy responses. The fact of the matter is that your girlfriend cant afford to care for her pets properly. I'm hoping it's only poor hammy and not more pets too, but being a reptile forum, I'm guessing she has more than just a hamster.
> 
> TBH, when you say "ill make sure the OP let you know what happens tommorrow or whenever she has access to the internet." - it makes me think she'll take a week off the internet for her hols, then come back and say he's either better (without treatment), or mysteriously died. And that'll be it. Save a few quid on vets fees and fob folks off...


 Were not avoiding the vets and she has a rabbit too, were not going to 'fob' anything off, ill pay and use the internt on site at cp to let you know if it will make u happy.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

sammy1969 said:


> I am sorry but i think this comment is uncalled for as up to this point this hamster has obviously had good care and your comment isnt constructive like others have been. Money isobviously tight for the op and she is getting the hamster to the vets now with the help of her bf life is not always easy for studetns and as much as it should of been done sooner bf is now getting the hamster the care it needs to personally attack the op isnt helpful and may mean next time she doesnt come here to ask for advice on anything when she could of been helped. Construstive critism is fine but blatently attacking someone isnt


It might have a nice cage, but it's not had good care. Good care would have been getting it to the vets when it started being ill. Money might be tight, at whcih point it's either the OP's responsibility to find some (get a job, scrounge from mum, sell something) or rehome the pet. 

I dont know how on earth someone could suggest leaving an animal in pain (urinary infections are very painful) was "good care" and that telling someone to go to the vet was "attacking" someone.

If it was a dog lying ill, would you leave it while you went on holiday?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

CPT BJ said:


> Were not avoiding the vets and she has a rabbit too, were not going to 'fob' anything off, ill pay and use the internt on site at cp to let you know if it will make u happy.


I'm not posting to make myself "happy", your girlfriend asked for advice, and she got it, not my fault if she doesn't like it - it's what is necessary. Thank YOU for being responsible, at least one of you was. 

However, I am sceptical, it's very easy to update an internet forum and say you've taken him to the vets, whilst on holiday. Who'll be giving him his medicine?


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> I'm not posting to make myself "happy", your girlfriend asked for advice, and she got it, not my fault if she doesn't like it - it's what is necessary. Thank YOU for being responsible, at least one of you was.
> 
> However, I am sceptical, it's very easy to update an internet forum and say you've taken him to the vets, whilst on holiday. Who'll be giving him his medicine?


 We are 'both' responsible, you'll just have to find some trust and believe us, we can take him before we go its not like weve got flights to catch and im sure her mother will administer any medication if its a urinary infection i imagine it could be some liquid medication which could be put into his water or maybe administered via a syringe?


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> It might have a nice cage, but it's not had good care. Good care would have been getting it to the vets when it started being ill. Money might be tight, at whcih point it's either the OP's responsibility to find some (get a job, scrounge from mum, sell something) or rehome the pet.
> 
> I dont know how on earth someone could suggest leaving an animal in pain (urinary infections are very painful) was "good care" and that telling someone to go to the vet was "attacking" someone.
> 
> If it was a dog lying ill, would you leave it while you went on holiday?


AS i said if it had been put construstively yes i would let it go but to insult the bf of the op is not right especially as he is taking responsibility for the hamsters care as i said in my first posts the reason ppl were upset was because of the posts that were put up but obviously neither you nor I know her complete circumstances and so cant say that it just has a cage and is left to fend for itself the rest of the time I wouldnt deem to make such a judgement on anyone without proof of my accusations. I think most ppl have been in a situation when something has gone wrong with a pet and for whatever reaason they havent had the money there and then for the vets and havent known that vets will in most circumstances let you pay when you can I only fond it out recently myself. Maybe you should think of how you worded your post and how you would feel if it had been directed at you. I dont know the op or her bf but I do believe the bf willkeep us informed wihtout lies or deceit unlike some others on here I may be wrong but I will wait and see before I pass a judgement


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> AS i said if it had been put construstively yes i would let it go but to insult the bf of the op is not right especially as he is taking responsibility for the hamsters care as i said in my first posts the reason ppl were upset was because of the posts that were put up but obviously neither you nor I know her complete circumstances and so cant say that it just has a cage and is left to fend for itself the rest of the time I wouldnt deem to make such a judgement on anyone without proof of my accusations. I think most ppl have been in a situation when something has gone wrong with a pet and for whatever reaason they havent had the money there and then for the vets and havent known that vets will in most circumstances let you pay when you can I only fond it out recently myself. Maybe you should think of how you worded your post and how you would feel if it had been directed at you. I dont know the op or her bf but I do believe the bf willkeep us informed wihtout lies or deceit unlike some others on here I may be wrong but I will wait and see before I pass a judgement


 I will keep you all posted, i dont think shadow will want to use the forum anymore as ive been speaking to her and shes taken all this to heart and shes really upset by it and tbh i dont want her to use the forum anymore if its going to make her upset as she is atm. But trust me ill keep you guys posted. There maybe a delay as were on holiday this week and i cant promise that ill get any internet acces but that is no way me 'fobbing' this off.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

WEll i can understand her upset when ppl post such insulting comments however most ppl do it out of genuine care and are not as scathing in their comments or put it more constructively but please tellher not to be put off by such things i have had it doen to me and I still come back for more andi n the most part ppl on here are nice and although they may constructively critise they will try and help as much as they can


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Any news on the hammie????


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

selina20 said:


> Any news on the hammie????


srry about it just got back off holiday today so i wil tell u wat happened basically monday i phoned up asked them about the hammi and they said bring him in just in case i arranged an oppiontment for 12.00 at about 11 i think, i got a call back from the vets receptionist telling me that they were closed and that they didnt know when they were going to be open so i went on holiday but i told my mom to keep an eye out for if the vets opened again and she did the next day she phoned still closed. they have been open for the past couple of days but neither her or me have been able to get transport to get there cause all the buses are not being used because of weather warings and its way to far for me to walk especially with my joint problems ive tryed other places and everything but keep getting the same problems. so for the moment i am still phoning up to check and as soon as i get the chance to he will be taken straight away even if i dont have the money. but the problems is when thats all for now he seems alright but i wouldnt bank on him staying like that for much longer. atm the moment im trying to keep him as comfortable as problem but i cant think of anything that will help like keeping him warm or something like that, my room is fairly cold at the moment.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

I take it like everywhere else you are affected by the snow hence the reason vets ar shut etc which i do understand as we have over 8" here that has fallen over night to b ehonest he needs to be seen by someone soon even though he does seem fine and as you know I am not having a go at all and ty for up dating us on this Hamsters can go down hill very fast so pleas ekeep a close eye on him


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> I take it like everywhere else you are affected by the snow hence the reason vets ar shut etc which i do understand as we have over 8" here that has fallen over night to b ehonest he needs to be seen by someone soon even though he does seem fine and as you know I am not having a go at all and ty for up dating us on this Hamsters can go down hill very fast so pleas ekeep a close eye on him


 Hi there has been a lot of snow, when we were on holiday there was upto 3 feet in some bits i estimate and even now in my back garden some places theres 30" worth of snow and its that bad we cant even get the car off of the street!


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Yep I know it is bad up your way and all ove now it sems to be geting wors ehere hasnt stopped snowing all day and now I am officially house bound unless i can get someone to drive me as I am in a wheelchair I am glad Little one is still going though and hopefully he will be able to get to the vets soon but I do understand the difficulties


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> Yep I know it is bad up your way and all ove now it sems to be geting wors ehere hasnt stopped snowing all day and now I am officially house bound unless i can get someone to drive me as I am in a wheelchair I am glad Little one is still going though and hopefully he will be able to get to the vets soon but I do understand the difficulties


 Its terrible i really hate the snow, were house bound at the moment too and had to return from holiday early too due to the rick of getting stuck out there!


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

I thought oyu were back early but can see why


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> I thought oyu were back early but can see why


 We had to leave by friday morning but didnt think we'd be able to get back with how the weather is going unfortunately.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I would give him plenty of bedding and perhaps get hold of one of those fleecy small animal pouches for him to cuddle up in.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

selina20 said:


> I would give him plenty of bedding and perhaps get hold of one of those fleecy small animal pouches for him to cuddle up in.


lol ive heard they were good i got one for my first hammy but he just ripped it to shreds lol but ill try that anyways, was going to get him a heat pad cause i thought it would be a good idea. and it would keep him warm but i do know that u have to watch wat ur doing.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mine has got asda`s naff smartprice toilet rolls,
they`ve mashed them up into massssive beds and are all toasty


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

shadow05 said:


> lol ive heard they were good i got one for my first hammy but he just ripped it to shreds lol but ill try that anyways, was going to get him a heat pad cause i thought it would be a good idea. and it would keep him warm but i do know that u have to watch wat ur doing.


checked him yesterday when i got back and i know ive not been away that long but he looks really healthy its quite weird lol his fur is all nice and soft and thick finally, his eyes are alert and clear, his bits ive checked them today and no fluid but im still gonna check every day until i get him into vets and hopefully that will be soon


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

I know it may sound weird but did oyu check to see if he had any fur wrapped round his bits I am not sure if he is ling or short haired but have seen this happen and the infection that resulted from it. I know it may be difficult but if he is very tame he should let you have a quick peek under his foreskin as it can cause him alot of probs if left. Hopefully he is ok but as I hav esaid before they canhide jus t how ill they are and I know the snow is bad everywhere and that it isnt easy to get him to the vets at the moment but the moment the weather improves I would take him regardless just to be on the safe side hun


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> I know it may sound weird but did oyu check to see if he had any fur wrapped round his bits I am not sure if he is ling or short haired but have seen this happen and the infection that resulted from it. I know it may be difficult but if he is very tame he should let you have a quick peek under his foreskin as it can cause him alot of probs if left. Hopefully he is ok but as I hav esaid before they canhide jus t how ill they are and I know the snow is bad everywhere and that it isnt easy to get him to the vets at the moment but the moment the weather improves I would take him regardless just to be on the safe side hun


yea i always check the whole area never been any physical signs apart from the pink fluid and he is very tame never bite me once even when he was little. he is also short haired as well. But as soon as it does i am going to do just that even if he looks healthy just to be safe about it. he could do with a check up anyways.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Think as he is short haired he is safe from that particualr complaint although one of my latest and last litters did have it happen and he is a short haired strange thing is one is cuddly tame the other is completely insane only difference is one is a a grey roan the other a cream roan lol


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> Think as he is short haired he is safe from that particualr complaint although one of my latest and last litters did have it happen and he is a short haired strange thing is one is cuddly tame the other is completely insane only difference is one is a a grey roan the other a cream roan lol


lol its weird how that happens lol but i think my hammi is a creame satin i think and hes georgous and tame:flrt: .the other hamster i had before was a sable one i think and he was crackers really its like he was into extreme sports


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Cream satins are very shiney ad sables which i have one and she is the mum to my two boys are like a choscolate brown with a lighter undercoat ie tan mum is a complete softie and so is mythril the grey roan ambrosia on the other hand the cream roan is completely insane and unhandleable


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> Cream satins are very shiney ad sables which i have one and she is the mum to my two boys are like a choscolate brown with a lighter undercoat ie tan mum is a complete softie and so is mythril the grey roan ambrosia on the other hand the cream roan is completely insane and unhandleable


yea my cream satin is very shiny and soft they have a very nice coat. its a shame cause his coat use to be really nice when he was younger quite long and now its quite short still smooth and soft but now on his head its thined out lol looks like male pattern boldnus lol


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Yeah it is unfortunate that they do tend to having a balding prob as they get older I used to breed and show satins and think they are gorgeous they have such a lovely shine to their coats and usually have such sweet temperaments.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> Yeah it is unfortunate that they do tend to having a balding prob as they get older I used to breed and show satins and think they are gorgeous they have such a lovely shine to their coats and usually have such sweet temperaments.


i didnt actually know about the balding problem my last hammy died at a young age which was heart breaking. i got him when he was about 4 weeks and 5 days old and he died at about 6 to 7 months old of a renal prolapse he also had an infection in his bits and was being treated for that but had to be put down next day. I still miss my last hammy a lot he meant a lot to me know hes just a hamster but they have really good characters and are lovely to watch.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

No you are not silly at all 
I still miss my ones from when i was younger as they were so sweet and it shows that you realy do care and unfrotunately it happens sometimes wiht hammys and there is nothing that can be done


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> No you are not silly at all
> I still miss my ones from when i was younger as they were so sweet and it shows that you realy do care and unfrotunately it happens sometimes wiht hammys and there is nothing that can be done


i know if paddy dies which i hope he doesnt that i will definitely miss him a lot cause ive had a lot longer to know him then when i did with sooty and hes always been quite vocal with me since he was little and i know he would never bite me or anybody else unless something was up. but i know i definitely want another one i was thinking about getting gerbils but i would definitely get a hamster again it might take me a while to get another but i think i still would.i would miss having one around. wouldnt be looking forward to re training another hamster again like but worth it as usual.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Gerbils take alot different housing and care to be honest I have both and have kept rats as well Hamsters are good pets for most people although I would never recomend one as a childrens pet because of the hours they keep.Gerbils are fun little pets to watch they love to dig and tunnel and they chew everything they can including bottles and houses lol but I wouldnt part with mine all of which are rescues. Hopefully Paddy is ok and will stay that well and I am glad you wil get him a health check as soon as you can, All my hamsters have lived to be ripe old ages of 3+ but that truly is an acception rather than the rule


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

i heard that some do live to the age of 4 but its not common and i think i will stick to a hammy. i like to watch gerbils but i dont think id like to own them lol


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

NO it i very rare the oldest i have had one is four and a half gerbils are fun to watch but arent really something that is good to handle most of mine dont like it although one does love a cuddle. If I am hones tthe best rodent for being handled is a rat they are so tame and love to be out and aobut and if i had the rom i would have them once again


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

sammy1969 said:


> NO it i very rare the oldest i have had one is four and a half gerbils are fun to watch but arent really something that is good to handle most of mine dont like it although one does love a cuddle. If I am hones tthe best rodent for being handled is a rat they are so tame and love to be out and aobut and if i had the rom i would have them once again


rats? rats smell :whistling2:you dont want rats :whistling2:



 

gotta agree with you sam :flrt:


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Lol I knew you would with al your little rattibums


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

sammy1969 said:


> Lol I knew you would with al your minions of evil


:lol2:


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

cheeky


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

sammy1969 said:


> cheeky


haha nah im being cheeky they arent evil or smelly rats are great:2thumb:


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

sammy1969 said:


> NO it i very rare the oldest i have had one is four and a half gerbils are fun to watch but arent really something that is good to handle most of mine dont like it although one does love a cuddle. If I am hones tthe best rodent for being handled is a rat they are so tame and love to be out and aobut and if i had the rom i would have them once again


lol i have heard this but my mom doesnt want anything like that in house shes a bit weird freaks her out but they freak me out to but not in the same way i will stroke one and everything but i wont hold them dont really trust them lol its kind of how i react with snakes lol


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Lol i used ot be freaked out by rats then I rescued two and never looked back. They have such a stigma attached to them but most of it is untrue. I have only ever been bitten once I have had over 50 rats and that rat was scared and in pain. They are not the dirty smelly vermin they are made out to be and my best girl Gracewing used to sit on my shoulder all the time pullmy bottom lip down to have a drink and would take food gently from my mouth she lived to be 4+ and survived a stroke which left her blind in one eye and with a head tilt. If i had the room I would hav ethem again and would defo go and pinch some of ami_j's as they are too cute for words lol


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

sammy1969 said:


> Lol i used ot be freaked out by rats then I rescued two and never looked back. They have such a stigma attached to them but most of it is untrue. I have only ever been bitten once I have had over 50 rats and that rat was scared and in pain. They are not the dirty smelly vermin they are made out to be and my best girl Gracewing used to sit on my shoulder all the time pullmy bottom lip down to have a drink and would take food gently from my mouth she lived to be 4+ and survived a stroke which left her blind in one eye and with a head tilt. If i had the room I would hav ethem again and would defo go and pinch some of ami_j's as they are too cute for words lol


oi:whip:
though you can have Atari , hes costing me a fortune (joking hes my baby:flrt


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

SEnd him to me hun i will give him lots of hugs and cuddles


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

sammy1969 said:


> SEnd him to me hun i will give him lots of hugs and cuddles


NO:whip::whip::whip:


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