# Kukri Snake - Oligodon purpurascens



## JustABeginner2

Last weekend I picked up Stabitha, a Kukri Snake. She was deep in blue when I collected her and she did bite me, but I only felt the wet inside of her mouth, no Ghurka-machete teeth were engaged thankfully!

She was weighed (155g) went into a quarantine rub in a rack, with coconut coir substrate, a wide but shallow water dish (the seller said her favourite place is usually burrowing under her water bowl, so a broad one will give her the opportunity). I've also given her a 30cm x 30cm slate place mat on legs for her to burrow under if she wants, and a bit of fake greenery.

I tried to leave her alone to settle in as much as possible, but when I did check on her, she was sitting on top of the slate, half hidden by the plastic leaves. This looked to be a cooler part of the habitat.

She shed on the following Saturday, 7 days after I'd collected her. All in one piece. Immediately after shedding, she swapped to hiding under the slate, burrowed in the coconut coir.

She was sold as currently feeding on scrambled up hen's eggs offered in a small bowl, and would also take pinkies scented with egg, plus had previously eaten a dead/deformed hatchling lizard, but I wanted to see if she'd accept frozen thawed frogs legs as part of her diet. They'll have more calcium in them than pinkies due to their better developed bone structure, and lower fat content. They can be found in Oriental Supermarkets at £6.50 for 500g. Their wild diet includes reptiles and amphibians, but they are most famous for eating reptile eggs. They are named for their blade-like rear teeth, which apparently resemble those kinked Ghurka 'Kukri' knives, developed for slicing through leathery reptile egg shells. She'll be getting all of my slug eggs in future too.

Last night I offered her a bowl containing 1 freshly laid, scrambled up pigeon egg, and some segments of one defrosted frog's leg. I wasnt sure if she'd eat a whole leg or which bit she would prefer, so I used some kitchen scissors to chop the leg into a mostly bony shin joint, a thigh and a hip/saddle joint.

Next morning, all three chunks of frog leg are gone. She's got a slight prey bulge and had moved to a new burrow underneath the slate but over the heat cable.

Just thought I'd start a thread about my Kukri Snake adventure as there's not much written about them. She's a mainland O. purpurascens from peninsular Malaysia sort of area, but I've seen some of the Timor Island red phase O. purpurascens for sale in Germany (and captive bred too!) so I'm very tempted to get a male for her, even if it is a different locality.

Picture as tax, from when I popped her food bowl into her rub.


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## Mellowman

Congratulations on your find!. Nice to see people choose to work with more uncommon snakes. Thanks for sharing.


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## Sylvi

She is beautiful! It is interesting to read about a snake I don't know about so I'm looking forward to reading about your journey


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## Josha80619

Nice one, I nearly pulled the trigger when I saw her for sale. Be interested to see how you get on


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## JustABeginner2

Cheers all, I was pretty stoked when I saw the advert and jumped at the chance. Here's a video from the Snake Discovery channel showing what the Tioman Island red phase/local looks like. They put a disclaimer on a following video stating that they made a mistake on the venomous comment (they aren't rear fanged venomous, no glands). 

https://youtu.be/SdzbLdDd2vo

And a couple of photos of Stabitha under better, natural light. Very little black, mostly grey and peach, mainland locale.


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## Thrasops

This is a beautiful species. Alexander Matusche and a few others have done wonders proliferating the Tioman island locality in Europe.










Picture of one of Matthew Kyriacou's animals. I have a couple reserved myself just as soon as the European shows are back up and running!


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## ian14

Thrasops said:


> This is a beautiful species. Alexander Matusche and a few others have done wonders proliferating the Tioman island locality in Europe.
> 
> image
> 
> Picture of one of Matthew Kyriacou's animals. I have a couple reserved myself just as soon as the European shows are back up and running!


The difference between the two is so great they look like different species!
Both are nice but personally I prefer this locality form, based on colour.


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## Thrasops

ian14 said:


> The difference between the two is so great they look like different species!
> Both are nice but personally I prefer this locality form, based on colour.


Yeah the red and yellow ones are insane. Getting fairly common now as well, they've spread from Europe to Canada and the US now. Not too pricy either.

There are a whole bunch of really amazing species in this genus that are either so rare as to be virtually unheard of, or simply are not in the European hobby. Some of the Chinese exporters sometimes get them in like _O. lacroixi_ but they usually smuggle through HK so I would not be tempted to try.


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## ian14

I remember seeing kukris crop up every now and again decades ago but if I remember correctly they were mainly a drab brown colour? And small.
I dont know much about them other than the common name derives from their teeth.
I've not really seen a close up photo, never seen one in the flesh.
It looks like the one the OP posted has an upturned, or enlarged, rostral scale. I take it these are very much burrowers/diggers in terms of their feeding behaviour?


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## Thrasops

ian14 said:


> I remember seeing kukris crop up every now and again decades ago but if I remember correctly they were mainly a drab brown colour? And small.
> I dont know much about them other than the common name derives from their teeth.
> I've not really seen a close up photo, never seen one in the flesh.
> It looks like the one the OP posted has an upturned, or enlarged, rostral scale. I take it these are very much burrowers/diggers in terms of their feeding behaviour?


Yeah sometimes you see the odd specimen come in, usually as filler, these are the drab specimens. They are all quite small, usually no more than about 3 feet or less. There are loads of species out there (there are 14-16 in China alone and around 80 in the genus).

Well observed they do root around and dig, they basically act a fair bit like Hognoses - a lot of them will eat reptile eggs and toads (the latter of which they have been recorded eviscerating with their enlarged teeth and dragging the viscera out to swallow).



















Most species are fairly plain but among them are a few really nice ones, here are a couple of images from the internet (not mine) of specimens I like. It's just one of those genera that nobody seems to have much interest in - a hidden gem.


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## Roseanna

Awesome snake! Really nice to see something different, I'll definitely be following this thread for updates :2thumb:


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## JustABeginner2

ian14 said:


> The difference between the two is so great they look like different species!
> Both are nice but personally I prefer this locality form, based on colour.



O. purpurascens does seem to vary a lot! If you compare Stabitha to the Tioman Island locale, she's got a reverse version of their markings. If you start at the head with the lighter, V-shape/eyebrow markings and work along, what are narrow, yellow bands on a Tioman Island are broad, conjoined, light peachy-beige saddles on Stabitha. What is a wide, red band on a Tioman are round, grey patches on Stabitha. It's like her pattern is 'Motley'-ified.


They can also have some longitudinal stripes and black barring;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yT96YNIIGM


https://images.app.goo.gl/A2ionQmwhyNRDojf6


Unless these slowly get separated out into different species, but at the moment they're still all O. purpurascens.


She ate again last night :2thumb: all 3 bits of frog leg, but lots of scrambled up egg left over.


The genus as a whole are a bit quirky with food, feeding, teeth, combat and defence mechanisms :gasp: apparently the males evert their hemipenes when threatened.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpFN3ZozBK0


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## JustABeginner2

She ate again last night, and this time I think she was close to feeling comfortable eating in front of me. Either that or she was extra hungry. I spent an hour or so watching her cruising around above and below the substrate, she drank some water and seemed very interested in the smell of her food but didn't touch it whilst I was watching. They seem like very alert snakes.

She ate every scrap of egg and frog leg overnight, so I think I'll increase the quantity next weekend.


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## JustABeginner2

Following how hungry she was last week, and reading about how other Oligodon species have been seen to gut live toads in the wild and pull out organs to eat, I decided to try Stabby out on some frozen/thawed offal.

With how popular raw dog diets are now, I thought I'd easily find chicken hearts and chicken livers in my local Just For Pets store. They have a huge range of frozen raw dog food, but not really what I was looking for. Minced chicken carcass and duck carcass, diced mixed organs, but not really what I was looking for.

In the end, I bought some ox heart and lambs liver from Morrisons and chicken livers and lamb kidneys from Tesco. I figured if she doesn't like them, I could always find some way to use them up in stews or pies.

I cut them into chunks or strips about the width of her head and twice as long. I put a chunk of each into her food bowl along with one mixed up pigeon egg.

She was out basking on top of her slate when I went to put the bowl of egg and offal in. Before she slithered away to hide, I tried offering her the chunk of ox heart from some tongs. I touched her on the lips with it and as soon as she tasted it, she started making pac-man munching motions so I put it in her mouth and she wolfed it down. Considering I'd tried this before with the frog's leg portions and she refused to entertain the idea of eating from tongs, and that she generally disappears as soon as I open her tub, I was impressed. Next I offered her a chunk of lamb kidney, which she was just as enthusiastic about, but she struggled with the size/shape/texture of it. Whilst she was wrestling with it, I saw her big back teeth and they are huge for the size of her head. Eventually she spat it out and retreated under the substrate.

I put the kidney piece back in the bowl and left the bowl in overnight. Next morning she'd eaten all the egg, the chicken liver and lamb liver, but the kidney chunk was out of the bowl and covered in substrate. Something about the rubbery texture of kidney means it needs to be cut up smaller. 

So Brown Kukri Snakes have a very strong feeding response for offal. She reminds me of a hognose snake with a diet like a more carnivorous garter snake. I can't wait to finish setting up her exo terra and getting her moved in. It'll be easier to get some better photos, hopefully video some of this behaviour.


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## JustABeginner2

Tonight I weighed Stabitha before I put her bowl of dinner in her rub. After just over a month here she has gone up from 155g to 194g.

Getting her out to weigh her was interesting. I've not made any attempts to handle or touch her since I put her into her rub over a month ago. She is surprisingly intelligent for a small snake, with very good spatial awareness and eyesight. She knew where my hands were and I think she would have bitten me if I hadn't used my snake hook, tubs and lids to stop her.

Only other update I can give is about eggs and Biotin, from the African Egg Eating Snake group on Facebook. I can remember reading years ago about how infertile eggs lack Biotin, and feeding a diet of infertile eggs can lead to Biotin deficiency, but the following was new to me. Apparently egg whites contain Avidin, which binds with Biotin, making it unavailable for any potential bacterial growth, but also unavailable to anything digesting the egg. In a fertilised egg, the Avidin slowly degrades to release the Biotin to the developing embryo, but in an infertile egg, this doesn't happen.

I generally use surplus fancy pigeon eggs that are fertile but undeveloped. However anyone else who has to rely on shop bought eggs that are likely to be infertile, could combat this by alternating feeds. One feed, offer scrambled up infertile eggs, next feed, offer chopped frog's legs and offal. Last week I tried Stabitha with an eggless bowl of frogs legs and offal and she still ate it.


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## JustABeginner2

As a bit of an update: Stabitha's bioactive exo terra is nearly ready for her to move into, but I think I'll leave her in her current digs for a while longer. She's eating less and looks suspiciously fatter and rounder in the rear third of her body. I'd love to let her run through my fingers to feel for eggs, but I'm sure I'd get bitten and that she'd rather not be mithered. So I'll leave her be and the plants in her new viv can have more time to become established. Might as well have a pretty vivarium if she's going to burrow out of sight a lot.

And I've found a research paper on the colour dimporphism found in this species. The 'Tioman Island locality' or red phase occurs on more than just Tioman Island by the looks of it. It looks like the 'Mainland' or grey phase is more common, but that you get pockets of red phases too. I wonder if it'll turn out that grey phase is dominant and red phase is recessive? The paper doesn't mention any 'integrade/intermediate' phases at all. 

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._purpurascens_SCHLEGEL_1837_REPTILIA_SQUAMATA


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## JustABeginner2

Phenotype 1 is Red Phase. Phenotype 2 is Grey Phase.


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## JustABeginner2

229g and looking very full at the back!


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## JustABeginner2

This snake has really breathed new life into my interest in herpetology! I've found a fantastic article on Kukri snakes and their mimicry of Coral snakes.

https://sanctuarynaturefoundation.org/article/seeing-red


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## JustABeginner2

Just putting this here for the sake of completion.

Originally mentioned by user: ian14

Oligodon listed as giving a medically significant bite. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2zzT3Jl4LcOImymfJHRsPb&cshid=1600010353583


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## JustABeginner2

More for my Kukri Snake dump-post! This time, it's an account from a chap who kept and bred O. fasciolatus in captivity. Includes accounts of bites (through a leather glove that had foiled the efforts of white lipped pythons), bites even with a closed mouth, enticing hatchling to eat by offering chopped up pinky mice and photographs of a f/t mouse during and after being eviscerated by a male kukri snake (it ate everything inside the body cavity, lungs, heart, liver, intestines... the lot!) 

https://www.snakesociety.nl/jaargan...61KtPLvb7Frw5qq095kH1dKHAJaGzEtijjzkJ879yVr5A


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## ian14

How is she doing?
Did it turn out she was gravid?


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## JustABeginner2

No eggs yet. She lost interest in food in late November/early December and looked suspiciously plump regardless. Now she's back on her food. She looks huge sometimes and other times it's nowhere near as pronounced. She spends a lot of her time in her moss box but was out basking on her slate hide today so I took some pics to keep track of how she's looking. As she slithered back under the slate I did put a finger under her body to try to feel for a series of lumps. I thought I could, but it might have been wishful thinking.

She's looking very healthy and colourful. Recently shed. Just got to see how we go. I've got an incubator all set up and holding temps well, ready in case. It gives me something to do while the kingsnakes are brumating.


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## JustABeginner2

David Zaius from Ophidiophile Farms has hatched out some of the brown O. purpurascens, and my word, they are cute! Apparently they have salmon pink ventral scales, whereas the adults have chequered cream/grey.


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## JustABeginner2

Another update for this dump-post!

After talking with Kurt Schaltz who breeds red Tioman Island O. purpurascens, it looks like Stabitha isn't gravid and isn't going to lay. Apparently this species can be pretty prolific once well adjusted to captivity. His females lay 4 clutches a year (his are several generations captive bred reds, as Tioman Island has been a protected nature refuge since the 1974 with no collection permitted). His girls lay 30 days or so after mating and have a pre-lay shed, 24hrs or less before laying. Stabitha has shed a couple of times over the winter so far with no eggs produced. I think she's probably ovulated a couple of times but it's not going anywhere by the looks of it.

Travis Wyman has hatched out a few Mainland Browns from a wild caught female that dropped a clutch shortly after arriving in captivity. He used a longer, lower temperature incubation method over 115 or so days. Shown in picture.


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## JustABeginner2

There's also the issue of the reds and browns being mixed geographically and genetically. That paper with the table of two phenotypes suggested that they are dimorphic, as in 'red' and 'brown'. I went hunting through field herp forums and photo galleries for images of wild O. purpurascens with location information. I had expected to find images of Tioman Island lookalikes from other islands and the Malaysian peninsula. It seems that the picture is much more complex than simple dimorphism.








^^Brown. Banded? Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)









^^Red. Banded? SLOG (Singapore Snakes Blog)









^^Red. Banded? A wild Tioman Island animal. Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)









^^Red. Banded and Banded/Barred? Alexander Matuschke's captive bred Tioman Island animals sometimes exhibit faint barring between the bands. Oligodon purpurascen









^^Brown. Banded/Barred? Oligodon purpurascens, Brown kukri snake


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## JustABeginner2

^^Red. Banded/barred? Borneo, Sarawak, Santubong snake compilation - Field Herp Forum









^^Brown? Barred? Phuket Nature Tours - Photos









^^Red? Barred? Other photos of this animal show no black on its scales, potentially being a naturally occurring hypomelanistic version of the other individual from Phuket. Phuket Nature Tours - Photos









^^Brown. Barred? Despite its drab dorsal colouration, this animal has bright red ventral scales. Brown Kukri Snake - Oligodon purpurascens









^^Brown. Saddled? Is this animal a mature version of the other Fraser's Hill phenotype, or do they co-occur? Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)


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## JustABeginner2

^^Brown. Saddled? Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)









^^Brown. Saddled? Snakes, Flying Frog, Caecilian, Trilobite Beetles: Macro and Still Life Photography Forum: Digital Photography Review









^^Red. Saddled? This one is my personal favourite. The alternative common names of "Maroon Kukri Snake" or "Purple Kukri Snake" make a bit more sense when looking at this animal. Pair the dark red colour with the steely blue/grey sheen of their scales on a moving snake and I'll bet it looks something close to some kind of purple. Occurrence Detail 2634006124









^^Melanistic? Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)









^^Brown. Does the dorsal stripe remain or is this just a juvenile pattern? This one looks more like Travis Wyman's neonates than like David Zaius'. Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)









^^ Red? Brown? Stripe/saddled/barred!? The location information is less specific for this one, but there's lots of cool pictures to browse through from this trip. trip report - Peninsular Malaysia april 2015 - Field Herp Forum


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## JustABeginner2

There is apparently a paper outlining the results from breeding a 'red' to a 'brown', which claims that the red phase is dominant over brown.









(Top left) Male juvenile 'brown'
(Top right) Male adult 'brown'
(Bottom left) Female juvenile captive bred Tioman Island red.
(Bottom right) Female adult captive bred Tioman Island red.









Hatchling from the pairing as a neonate, juvenile and adult.

Was this pairing really red x brown or was it just two shades of red being mixed together? My initial interpretation of the juvenile 'brown' male was that it was a red animal, even if it did get duller with age.


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## JustABeginner2

Found some O. purpurascens for sale, so I bought all 4 of them. Hopefully I'll be able to make up at least one pair in the future! Photos taken one with flash, one without, to try to give a better idea of colour.

















Gillette looks like she may be female from the length of her tail, as a guess. Fantastically colourful for a "brown" snake! Her eyes look slightly cloudy so she may be about to go into blue. 135g

















Wilkinson is nearly as colourful and from the looks of his tail, might be a guy. Only a little snake at 80g.

















Stanley is a duller brown and looks like a potential male from his tail length/shape. He was much more mardy coming out of the shipping bag last night than either of the two brightly coloured ones. He's a bit on the skinny side so his 80g should go up pretty quick with any luck.

















This one is currently nameless but came in a bag labelled "cow bag". 212g and furious, snake hook was necessary and she jack-in-the-box popped up out of the bag. She wanted to bite. She's gone into blue overnight. She's longer than my LTC Stabitha so if she thrives and puts on a similar amount if girth, this snake will be my biggest kukri. She's got an old wound under her jaw that I'm hoping will look a lot better once she's shed.


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## JustABeginner2

Wilkinson ate with gusto right off the bat. He's now gone into blue.









Stanley is the skinniest looking one but last night he really went to town on a bowl of beaten hen's egg. There's some good scale separation where he's filled himself up. With an empty stomach he's very triangle/Toblerone shaped so he's going to have anti-parasite medication in his next meal.

The big bitey one is now called "Cutlass". She shed and then was straight on her food.

Gillette is the problem child, fingers crossed on that one.


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## JustABeginner2

A stunning red, saddled(?) wild caught O. purpurascens youngster from West Java. This photo was posted to the Oligodon group on Facebook, by Syafri R Gremory.

As a guess, I'd say the above snake has the same Red&Yellow colour gene as a Tioman Island snake, but instead of the Banded pattern, it has the Saddled pattern more commonly seen in brown phase individuals. Whether it retains this intensity of colour into adulthood is another matter entirely.

Below is another West Java wild caught youngster, this time with the Banded pattern of a Tioman Island animal, but the colouration of a brown phase animal.
















Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens)


Brown Kukri Snake from Citeureup on August 11, 2018 by aswad andriyanto




www.inaturalist.org


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## loxocemus

I know its off topic but may I ask how the xeno's are doing?

rgds
ed


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## JustABeginner2

loxocemus said:


> I know its off topic but may I ask how the xeno's are doing?
> 
> rgds
> ed


They're doing pretty good thanks Ed! One did die within a week of arrival (it was very thirsty on arrival) but the remaining 3 are all eating well and have been treated for parasites. One is so keen to feed that it strike feeds during daylight hours! Just got to grow them on some now.


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## loxocemus

hey 3 out of 4 wc, your doing well


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## JustABeginner2

loxocemus said:


> hey 3 out of 4 wc, your doing well


I was gutted about the one that died, it was the biggest of the lot but it showed very little sign of being ill until two days before it died.

I have high hopes for Truffle though, the "gives zero turds" about this "Sunbeams are shy" snake. I think he/she has got fantastic potential for contributing to the captive bred population. This one has only refused food due to being in shed, every other time has been a strike feed and I've been able to photograph/video the process.


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## JustABeginner2

Stabitha out basking under 30°C and 10% uvb basking spot at 2:30pm. For a burrowing snake, she comes out to bask a lot!


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## JustABeginner2

Stanley's belly has the least chequering and least amount of colour of the lot. There's a slight hint of yellow under his neck and that's it.

Weighed the new kukris to see how they're doing weight-wise from arrival on 4th Feb to 2nd March:

Stanley - 80g -> 103g = 23g gain
Wilkinson - 80g -> 94g = 14g gain
Cutlass - 212g -> 224g = 12g gain
Gillette - 135g -> 117g = 18g loss

Gillette has been struggling but I'm pretty sure she's now turned a corner. She's much more active and is both eating and pooping.

I've also been attempting subcaudal scale counts from shed skins in the hope that it might lend a clue on gender without having to try to probe or 'just wait and see'. I'm not seeing much of a pattern here. I'll count Stabitha's when she sheds next as she's a known female. These were counted by holding the vent end of the shed skin towards me and counting the number of tail scutes along the left hand side - probably not the official way of counting but so long as I used the same method for all of them I thought I might see distinct grouping. But no.

Cutlass - 48
Wilkinson - 47
Stanley - 46 (but this shed was broken, may have been missing a row or two)
Gillette - 45


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## JustABeginner2

More wierd feeding behaviour from the kukri genus. If you skip to about 12:30 this lad found a Kukri snake in the wild that was in the middle of eating a mushroom.


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## JustABeginner2

Stabitha was under a small slate hide this evening, one that's easy to lift without wrecking the plants and burrows, so I took the opportunity to take a peek. She's looking well but still hates being disturbed!










I've counted her subcaudal scales from her last shed. She fits into the counts as follows;

Cutlass - 48
Stabitha - 47
Wilkinson - 47
Stanley - 46 (but this shed was broken, may have been missing a row or two)
Gillette - 45

So the one confirmed female, who has laid eggs in the past, is towards the top of the subcaudal scale counts. From looks alone, I'd have thought that Gillette and Stabitha look like females, the others look like males (tails look longer and increase in thickness slightly after the vent). The two brighter/coppery coloured "brown" phase animals are Wilkinson and Gillette, which are mixed in amongst the steely/greyer coloured "brown" phase animals. I'm not keen on the idea of probing to find out. Wilkinson and Cutlass are particularly fast and furious.

Tomorrow I'm collecting a male Tioman Island Red on a breeding loan, so I'll be able to count his subcaudals too. Hopefully I'll have some outcrossed CB Tioman Island Red x LTC "Mainland Brown" eggs to put in the incubator, if all goes well.


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## JustABeginner2

Here he is! Oli is a little 78g male captive bred Tioman Island Red O. purpurascens!

With a bit of luck, I might have some out-crossed babies available this year. The two chaps who have hatched out pure "Mainland Brown" hatchlings in America have said they are a pain to get feeding, so hopefully having a multi-generation captive bred father will make for easier feeders.

Apparently captive bred Tioman Island Red females can be extremely productive - laying four clutches of eggs in a season. We'll just have to see what happens.


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## JustABeginner2

Oli strike feeds on frozen/thawed small mice and doesn't mind being filmed. He is such an awesome little guy, I hope I get some babies off him and I hope they get some of his feeding genetics!


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## JustABeginner2

Oli shed his skin today, so I had a male O. purpurascens skin to do a subcaudal scale count from. He's not a proven breeding male, but as he's been sold/bought as male, he's probably been probed, popped or may have everted his hemipenes at some point.

Oli - 53 ♂ 
Cutlass - 48
Stabitha - 47 ♀ has previously laid eggs
Wilkinson - 47
Stanley - 46 (but this shed was broken, may have been missing a row or two)
Gillette - 45

It's beginning to look like I might have an all-female collection of brown O. purpurascens 😕 what are the chances of buying 5 snakes and all of them being females!? I might have to bite the bullet and actually try to probe them/rope the local reptile shop into probing them at some point. I was hopeful that Wilkinson & Gillette would be a pair as they're a different, coppery coloured kind of brown. Stabitha, Stanley and Cutlass are all steely grey/brown so I was hoping to make up a pair out of those three in future.


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## JustABeginner2

Oli is often out on his cork log and this evening I managed to sneak up and get a photo without him darting off back under the substrate.


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## JustABeginner2

It's bad news on Gillette's story. She died overnight. This is the best photo I have of her from when she first arrived (though you can see the puffy, slightly separated scales at the back of her head here). She was 135g on arrival (4th Feb) and today her body weighed 70g (1st May). She had too many health issues to overcome all at once. She'd been on antibiotics for a respiratory infection, shed multiple times in quick succession (26th Feb, 9th March, 29th March, 15th April), had two parts of her body that looked to have had crush injuries of unknown age (dents in her side in two places, likely broken ribs). She was only eating/drinking small amounts of liver/kidney smoothie if she was put in a tub of it for a half hour or so.

I would have loved to have been able to get anti-parasite medication into her sooner (the other 3 WC kukris were eagerly eating from bowls, so their meds could be put in their food and they'd reliably consume the entire contents of the bowl, getting the full dose). Tube feeding/medicating kukris is very difficult. They have overlapping, sturdy labial scales and tightly lipped mouths for burrowing, plus very strong jaw and neck muscles. They're also very pissy and seem severely stressed by attempts to restrain them and open their mouth. By the time Gillette was weak enough for me to be able to tube feed her fluids/food/anti-parasite medication, I think it was a bit too late.

Such a shame, she was the most colourful of my brown kukris, the underside of her neck was lemon yellow. RIP.


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## JustABeginner2

Syafri on Facebook posted a photo of another non-Tioman red phase animal. This one is reportedly from Sumatra.


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## JustABeginner2

Stabitha and Oli are now tolerating each other's presence. It took 21 days to get to this point! Fingers crossed they'll breed.


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## JustABeginner2

Well, Travis Wyman has hatched out a clutch of mainland brown x Tioman Island reds and 100% of the babies look like Tioman Island reds! I was not expecting the red colour and the banded pattern to be dominant over the brown colour and the saddled pattern.


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## Thrasops

I remembered this thread and thought I would invite further ridicule after my Thrasops bite with some images of what a small (18") Tioman Island kukri did to my finger a few weeks back:

"I wouldn't normally share images of what in actuality was a silly and unnecessary bite but it is interesting enough that I thought I might as well.

I was showing off a few of my snakes over a video chat with fellow keepers in the US and Germany and got out my _Oligodon purpurascens _(Tioman Island kukri snake). [_Our very own Roman Astheimer was one of the witnesses_].

For those not in the know, these are small snakes that are called 'kukri' snakes because their teeth are shaped like kukri knives, and rather than piercing with them they have the singularly unpleasant habit of using them like surgical scalpels; they can cut open reptile eggs and even the bellies of large toads to get at the soft organs inside. They also can cause some surprisingly painful deep, slashing wounds when they wish.

Such happened to me. I lifted the snake up to the video camera and the little bastard took the opportunity to sink its teeth in and then make chewing motions, resulting in the curved slashing cuts you see here. To say they bled profusely is an understatement - my keyboard is now sticky with blood and there was a trail of blood and gore spatter from the lounge to the kitchen as I washed the wound. It took around an hour for the cuts to stop bleeding (with tight pressure).

All of which caused no small amount of hilarity to those watching. That will be a video chat none of us will forget in a hurry, I suspect!

I've never been one to share 'macho war wounds' least of all from an 18" long snake, but I thought this was interesting enough to share and demonstrate what a small _Oligodon_ can do. Would not like to take a bite from a fully grown animal of the larger species... (3-4'), I suspect that would very easily venture into the territory of multiple stitches and even damage to tendons.

(Pics here from several hours after the bite, having cleaned up the cuts, some of them were absolutely gushing blood)"

Just thought you would be interested in seeing what a small specimen is capable of doing in no time at all. And note the shape and depth of the bites! Very cool. And very bloody.


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## JustABeginner2

David Zaius has worked with his CB hatchlings as they grew so now they're "as docile as corn snakes" during handling.

The photos of him freely handling his reds makes me feel anxious 😂


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## Thrasops

JustABeginner2 said:


> David Zaius has worked with his CB hatchlings as they grew so now they're "as docile as corn snakes" during handling.
> 
> The photos of him freely handling his reds makes me feel anxious 😂


Yep I can imagine... this specimen is 'docile' too. Never tried to bite before. And it was not a strike or telegraphed at all. Its head was beside my finger, and it just opened its mouth and started slashing without warning. Not going to just playfully pick up this genus again for sure!

Would really hate to imagine what a large 3-4' _Oligodon_ could do to you, and I see now why people in South Africa regard Mole snakes as 'potentially dangerous' and give them the respect they do (imagine an 8' kukri!). Males of those inflict hideous scars on one another during courtship battles.


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## JustABeginner2

Visual lock today!

Last weekend, after several months of Oli (CB male Tioman Red) and Stabitha (LTC Mainland Brown) showing no signs of breeding activity, I swapped Stabitha for the biggest of my newer Mainland Browns - Cutlass.

One week later, visual lock between Oli and Cutlass.

Fingers crossed!


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## ian14

Congratulations! Hope this is successful.


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## JustABeginner2

ian14 said:


> Congratulations! Hope this is successful.


Thanks! I'm beginning to have my suspicions that the CB Tioman Island Red male I've borrowed might actually be a female... I've tried to leave these two alone today but they're still locked and looking at them together... I think Cutlass the brown might be the male, Oli the red might be female.

It would mean that the reason that Oli and Stabitha never visually locked was because they're both girls.

I'm not keen on probing these snakes to find out 😂


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## LiasisUK

Good luck with the breeding!


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## ian14

JustABeginner2 said:


> Thanks! I'm beginning to have my suspicions that the CB Tioman Island Red male I've borrowed might actually be a female... I've tried to leave these two alone today but they're still locked and looking at them together... I think Cutlass the brown might be the male, Oli the red might be female.
> 
> It would mean that the reason that Oli and Stabitha never visually locked was because they're both girls.
> 
> I'm not keen on probing these snakes to find out 😂


Oh grow a pair and shove that steel probe in 😁


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## JustABeginner2

Pictures from Yundari Uciha on Facebook.

Facebook translate struggles with Indonesian/Malaysian, but from what I can gather, this multicoloured trio are from a Red x Brown breeding.









The red & yellow neonate and the brown & grey one to the right pictured above are shown again below as adults. The brown one became a richer brown throughout, whereas the red one faded to shades of grey.


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## JustABeginner2

And the guy seems to have a YouTube channel, here's his video of Oligodon purpurascens.


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## JustABeginner2

The CB Tioman Island Red Kukri is looking like he is actually a she and she's going into a pre-lay shed. Oli seems to be a long-tailed female, and subcaudal scale counts do not seem to be a reliable method of sexing Kukris. It's unfortunate as I'd have loved to use this method to completely avoid the teeth 😂

Oli (almost proven ♀) 53 subcaudal scales.
Cutlass (almost proven ♂) 48 subcaudal scales.
Stabitha (has laid eggs for previous owner ♀) 47 subcaudal scales.


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## ian14

Fingers crossed for you.
I dont think I've ever seen UK CB kukris before.
I've seen wc and ltc for sale but never true cb.
I'm fairly sure that you are now getting very excited!
I was the same when my Mexican hogs mated. Then laid. And then the eggs hatched for the first time in the UK.
A first breeding record, which I'm sure yours will be in the UK, is a great feeling.
Really hoping you succeed.


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## JustABeginner2

It's going pretty well! Looks like 6 good eggs so far with 4 more to come, just as Storm Arwen is bearing down on us! It also confirms that this Oli the Tioman Island Red is a long tailed female.

16/10 - Observed locks.
07/11 - Blue. 
13/11 - Eyes cleared.
14/11 - Shed.
22/11 - Arse end coiled in waterbowl. Other cool seeking behaviours had happened since shedding.
26/11 - Started laying hours before the first winter storm is due to hit.

I'd heard from American breeders that their Tiomans lay within 24hrs or so of their pre-lay shed, but Oli decided to go for 12 days after her pre-lay shed.


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## JustABeginner2

Final count of 11 good eggs, no slugs, nothing retained.

Mother has had a couple of fuzzy mice and is rehydrating in her water bowl.


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## JustABeginner2

Stabitha has surprised me today with 11 eggs! LTC Mainland Brown x LTC Mainland Brown (arrived on different import shipments more than a year apart so may or may not be the same locale, collection locations are unknown). 

I think they were laid more than 24hrs ago as they'd stuck together. Ten goodish looking ones and one obvious slug. The slug was in the middle of the mass and wasn't well adhered so it allowed me to split the egg mass into smaller groups. They don't look as pearly white as the CB Tioman Island Red x LTC Mainland Brown clutch, but I'll incubate till no debate just in case.


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## JustABeginner2

Baby kukris in the making! The CB Tioman Island Red x LTC Mainland Brown clutch are doing great and have fantastic veins at 12 days.


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## loxocemus

your dedication has paid off, my sincere congratulations. your going to have your hands full of little death machines (in a good way) soon. 

i hope the incubation passes quickly for you, merry christmas to you and yours🎅 
rgds
ed.


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## JustABeginner2

loxocemus said:


> your dedication has paid off, my sincere congratulations. your going to have your hands full of little death machines (in a good way) soon.
> 
> i hope the incubation passes quickly for you, merry christmas to you and yours🎅
> rgds
> ed.


Cheer mate, I'm trying not to get too excited before I've got actual hatchlings eating defrost, but it's definitely progress!


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## LiasisUK

Congrats on the eggs, great to see


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## JustABeginner2

Let's compare and contrast some Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens) eggs! Both clutches have the same father - Cutlass the Brown phase LTC male.

The two tubs on the left numbered with roman numerals are the entire 11 egg clutch laid by Oli the Red phase CB female. They're at 23 days and Cutlass is the only male she's been with. The eggs are plump, dry to the touch, pearly white and full of veins when candled.

The two tubs on the right numbered with dots were the 10 best eggs from an 11 egg clutch laid by Stabitha the Brown phase LTC female. She's years older than the other female and has previously laid eggs in captivity for her previous owner, which also failed. These eggs are on day 9 but are slumping, slimy, all kinds of fungal/bruised looking colours and I've only tried to candle one once because they're nasty to touch. I couldn't see any veins inside. I've dusted these eggs with anti fungal powder after this photo was taken.

Both clutches are being kept identically. I observed a visual lock between Oli x Cutlass but I didn't observe a lock between Stabitha x Cutlass. Maybe Stabitha didn't allow Cutlass to mate with her? Oli is multi generation CB and eats frozen thawed whole rodents (and anything else) whereas Stabitha will only eat things that are chopped up and covered in egg. Maybe Stabitha's dietary demands are leaving her deficient in something? The only other change is that I moved Stabitha and Cutlass into a warmer room before a cold winter snap, so they were at a higher ambient temperature during mating/egg development. Maybe it was too warm for sperm to remain viable?


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## JustABeginner2

Two clutches of Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens) eggs in the incubator!

Roman Numerals are on day 62 (Number VII was not so lucky, it stopped developing very early on). Laid on 26th November.

Planetary Sigils are on day 1. Laid on 27th January.

Mother - Oli CB Tioman Island Red O. purpurascens on breeding loan from Welsh Morphology Photography.
Father - Cutlass WC Mainland Brown O. purpurascens.


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## ian14

Let's hope the hatchlings feed ok. 
Bet you are well chuffed!!


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## JustABeginner2

ian14 said:


> Let's hope the hatchlings feed ok.
> Bet you are well chuffed!!


Yes hopefully I can get them all eating, they'll be tiny little beasties! I'm happy with the progress but I'm looking forwards to getting some babies feeding and off into other collections. If I had a house fire now it would be incredibly tragic.


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## loxocemus

I'm feeling admiration jealousy, envy, and awe in equal measure.

you deserve ur achievements

rgds
ed.
ps you'll get them feeding don't worry, just scale down ur adult tricks.


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## JustABeginner2

Egg number "XI" was the first to pip on day 78 of incubation at 26.5-27.5°C.

A cute little red nose. Mother was a CB "Tioman Island Red Locality" Oligodon purpurascens, father was a LTC/WC "Mainland Brown" Oligodon purpurascens.

Is this a UK first?


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## Thrasops

JustABeginner2 said:


> View attachment 359278
> 
> Egg number "XI" was the first to pip on day 78 of incubation at 26.5-27.5°C.
> 
> A cute little red nose. Mother was a CB "Tioman Island Red Locality" Oligodon purpurascens, father was a LTC/WC "Mainland Brown" Oligodon purpurascens.
> 
> Is this a UK first?


Awesome! Been waiting to see this! Massive congratulations dude!


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## JustABeginner2

Evicted from the incubator because I could hear rustling perlite and this little chap was flipping his siblings' eggs over. I'm really impressed with the size of this baby and the size of it's mouth. It's much bigger and with a bigger head than any of the tiny mexicana kingsnakes (which have tiny mouths!).

Still haven't heard from anyone else having bred these or knowing anyone who has bred these before in the UK, so this little baby might well be the first UKCB brown kukri snake. If anyone hears otherwise, do let me know!

Such a cute face!


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## JustABeginner2

Number 9 / IX is the second to pip, less than 12hrs later.









And out of the egg by the end of the day!


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## loxocemus

congratulations, their very pretty babies. nice little chunky ones too.

rgds
ed


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## Elly66

Wow, they're beautiful 😍


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## JustABeginner2

The hatchling from egg VIII has shed and eaten half a defrost pinkie for me today!


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## ian14

JustABeginner2 said:


> The hatchling from egg VIII has shed and eaten half a defrost pinkie for me today!


Result!!
What about the rest?


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## JustABeginner2

ian14 said:


> Result!!
> What about the rest?


Egg VIII has been the first to shed and eat, the rest are all still in blue or about to shed, so hopefully within the week I'll have more who have successfully eaten.


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## JustABeginner2

CB22 Brown Kukri Snake (Oligodon purpurascens) hatchlings eating - I wasn't quick enough with the camera! Of the 10, 4 have had their first shed & first meal, 3 have shed but haven't eaten for me yet and 3 still haven't shed.

CB Tioman Island Red (dam) x LTC Mainland Brown (sire).









Brown Kukri Snake CB22 eating (egg VIII) Oligodon purpurascens







youtube.com













Brown Kukri Snake CB22 eating (egg III) Oligodon purpurascens







youtube.com


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## JustABeginner2

We're now at 6 shed & fed, 1 shed but not fed, 3 still haven't shed. Getting there!


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## loxocemus

u should start doing the lottery, pick the numbers of the first eggs to hatch, 2nd ticket, first neos to feed (id like a cut if u win, im not greedy, just skim the interest for ol' ed)

rgds and congrats (how many times can u say congrats before it becomes obvious ur jealous....)
congrats.
ed


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## JustABeginner2

loxocemus said:


> u should start doing the lottery, pick the numbers of the first eggs to hatch, 2nd ticket, first neos to feed (id like a cut if u win, im not greedy, just skim the interest for ol' ed)
> 
> rgds and congrats (how many times can u say congrats before it becomes obvious ur jealous....)
> congrats.
> ed


Thank you 😂 this is all a bit of a dream come true from 20+ years of keeping snakes. I've been the one jealous of other people's snake breeding exploits for a long time. I'm just happy it's all gone so well! You hear so many horror stories about breeding loans, but this has gone really well!

We're now at 8 fed and shed, 1 shed and still holding out on eating a week after shedding (this one is very tame/reluctant to bite) and 1 still yet to shed (Broken Arrow, the only one to have hatched with a broken V marking on its head, shown below back when it had pipped).


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## JustABeginner2

All 10 hatchlings have eaten at least once now! This darker hatchling nicknamed "Tame Baby" was the most stubborn out of the clutch to feed because it will not bite for love nor money! It shed on the 1st March and refused multiple offerings until on 13th March I put it in this tiny tub in the dark with half a defrost pinkie for 3hrs, then it finally ate!

The last one to shed was Broken Arrow, which shed today but immediately strike fed.


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## LiasisUK

Nice. Congrats


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## JustABeginner2

Tame Baby is so cute 😭 it drop feeds really well now, and happily crawls through hands like a baby corn snake.

All it's siblings are rage machines and are constantly trying to dart away.


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