# This could affect us all. Please read.



## citronella (Dec 15, 2009)

https://www.facebook.com/newenglandreptile/posts/10151573569948877



(Hope my link works as they often do not.)


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

How exactly will this affect us? This is in the US - when the python "ban" was brought in there was concern that this would impact on us, it doesnt appear to have done so.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

citronella said:


> https://www.facebook.com/newenglandreptile/posts/10151573569948877
> 
> 
> 
> (Hope my link works as they often do not.)


Not dissimilar legislation is progressed in the EU, under the auspices of Invasive Alien Species, the draft legislation will be published shortly by the Commission.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> Not dissimilar legislation is progressed in the EU, under the auspices of Invasive Alien Species, the draft legislation will be published shortly by the Commission.


:zzz::zzz::zzz:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> :zzz::zzz::zzz:


you're bored by a threat to our hobby? if chris thinks it's a threat, then it likely is- he knows his stuff.


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## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> you're bored by a threat to our hobby? if chris thinks it's a threat, then it likely is- he knows his stuff.


Perhaps, Jabba should consider the situation closer to home in Belgium and potentially Holland too?
It seems, that "lists" similar to those being experienced in the USA are firmly on the agenda across Europe and the consequences should be a concern to us all!


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## SporAkaJohn (May 1, 2012)

isnt there the possibility of the UK leaving the EU? would we then be affected?

-John


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Theres always been a threat to the hobby for as long as I have been in it, every so often it just rears its head and everyone takes notice for a while.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

SporAkaJohn said:


> isnt there the possibility of the UK leaving the EU? would we then be affected?
> 
> -John


I dont think thats very likely.However, even if we leave the E.U. if they are only allowed to keep a few species on the continent it will mean that there is a threat to the European shows.Fine if you keep Royal Pythons and import them from the States or Canada but I keep unusual lizards and frogs and have to go to Europe for these.That supply will dry up.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

colinm said:


> I dont think thats very likely.However, even if we leave the E.U. if they are only allowed to keep a few species on the continent it will mean that there is a threat to the European shows.Fine if you keep Royal Pythons and import them from the States or Canada but I keep unusual lizards and frogs and have to go to Europe for these.That supply will dry up.


Supplies wont dry up it not going to be anything like what there saying. Remeber that big snakes were going to be ban or put on the DWA in the UK but that never happened.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> you're bored by a threat to our hobby? if chris thinks it's a threat, then it likely is- he knows his stuff.


Its nothing like what there making it out to be but you carry on giving them money


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I dont agree. Most of the unusual reptiles and amphibians are bred in Europe not the U.K. The primary market in the U.K. is Bearded Dragons,Leopard Geckos,Royal Pythons etc.In Europe they keep the unusual species,where will stocks come from then? It certainly wont be worth importing them from the States and not enough people over here breed them.


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

colinm said:


> I dont agree. Most of the unusual reptiles and amphibians are bred in Europe not the U.K. The primary market in the U.K. is Bearded Dragons,Leopard Geckos,Royal Pythons etc.In Europe they keep the unusual species,where will stocks come from then? It certainly wont be worth importing them from the States and not enough people over here breed them.


You will still be able to get them in Europe.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

How can you if they are banned ?


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

colinm said:


> How can you if they are banned ?


If they do get banned you will still be able to get them (you can buy drugs from just about every street in the UK) There wont be too much banned if anything so its not rally going to have that much impact on the hobby. And if they do ban all reptiles we will just have to keep bunnies then we can let them out all over the place


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## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> If they do get banned you will still be able to get them (you can buy drugs from just about every street in the UK) There wont be too much banned if anything so its not rally going to have that much impact on the hobby. And if they do ban all reptiles we will just have to keep bunnies then we can let them out all over the place


Jabba, 
It seems that you have an interesting perspective on life, but I struggle to recognise you as a "mentor"!


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## Jabba the mentor (Nov 13, 2008)

Geomyda said:


> Jabba,
> It seems that you have an interesting perspective on life, but I struggle to recognise you as a "mentor"!


Thats because you have never met me or know me


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## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

Jabba the mentor said:


> Thats because you have never met me or know me


I am sure,that there are those whom consider you a shining light!:notworthy:


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

Hmmm...
I think I tend to believe that there is too much making mountains out of mole hills going on. Ok, so we need to keep our eye on the ball but I really feel that hobbyists are being fed a little too much pessimism with regards any EU regulation.

Worse case scenario, should there be a European "ban" list, it will need to be phased in. There will be no mass euthanisation, not in this country anyway. Besides, there are just too many species already within the hobby and probably many more yet to be introduced and to ban them all would be suicide for the economy of any country, like the UK, that has a massive love for exotic pets. After all, it is not be just reptiles that are being discussed. You have to realise that in the UK the number of people keeping exotic pets is huge indeed and the entire industry is getting bigger by the week.

There are too many issues to resolve to make even a few bans of exotic pets a viable option. The cost to the economy, protests by the owners and the industry and the logistics of policing any large scale regulation would render it an almost impossible task to impose in UK (let alone places like Germany).

To even suggest that any EU regulation will have a huge impact on our hobby, here in the UK, is a little irresponsible, especially at such an early stage of proposal. So, for the moment, just chill out. It may never happen and probably won't.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

MCEE said:


> Hmmm...
> I think I tend to believe that there is too much making mountains out of mole hills going on. Ok, so we need to keep our eye on the ball but I really feel that hobbyists are being fed a little too much pessimism with regards any EU regulation.
> 
> Worse case scenario, should there be a European "ban" list, it will need to be phased in. There will be no mass euthanisation, not in this country anyway. Besides, there are just too many species already within the hobby and probably many more yet to be introduced and to ban them all would be suicide for the economy of any country, like the UK, that has a massive love for exotic pets. After all, it is not be just reptiles that are being discussed. You have to realise that in the UK the number of people keeping exotic pets is huge indeed and the entire industry is getting bigger by the week.
> ...


that's what coldwater aquarists said about banning exotic coldwater fish in the UK. but it happened, & now you can't keep any of the more unusual coldwater species such as shiners, sunfish, high fin suckers, etc. in fact, apart from goldfish, koi, orfe, and UK native species, you are pretty much stuffed for any choice. if it can happen with fish, it can happen with reptiles.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

wilkinss77 said:


> that's what coldwater aquarists said about banning exotic coldwater fish in the UK. but it happened, & now you can't keep any of the more unusual coldwater species such as shiners, sunfish, high fin suckers, etc. in fact, apart from goldfish, koi, orfe, and UK native species, you are pretty much stuffed for any choice. if it can happen with fish, it can happen with reptiles.


That is a very good point which I had entirely forgotten about, much to my embarrassment. This along with the bird ban (something that would never happen) are good examples of what can happen, complacency is our worst enemy…….!!


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

To all who say "it can't happen" I just copied this from the facebook link in the comments... Australia is a pretty big country yet they still pulled it off (to some extent at least) 

Guy Newton Coldbloodedinc: Here in nsw australia they have just past the law of pet shops being able to sell reptiles . There is so much theft now because of such a high demand and the money to be made from selling them. My mate lost his collection to a theif the gosford reptile park lost exotics a croc and endless eggs. Ive installed an alarm on my snake room . Point being governments are ****ed they **** shit up for every one i really hope u guys over there beat this shitty law they trying to pass .. Stick together !!! Good luck


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## MCEE (Aug 8, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> that's what coldwater aquarists said about banning exotic coldwater fish in the UK. but it happened, & now you can't keep any of the more unusual coldwater species such as shiners, sunfish, high fin suckers, etc. in fact, apart from goldfish, koi, orfe, and UK native species, you are pretty much stuffed for any choice. if it can happen with fish, it can happen with reptiles.


Its all down to whether the alien spiecies could survive and breed in this country, to the detriment of our own wildlife. The cold water species you mention could quite happily find conditions in UK waters quite favourable and not only survive but also breed. This would, potentially, decimate the native ecology of our rivers if these aliens were released into them. Just look at what is happening with regards the Noth American Crayfish and the decimation of our own native species. However, the vast majority of the reptile species we keep in the hobby have not a hope in hell of surviving our climate (be it too cold or too wet), let alone breed. Ok, so the odd snake or lizard may just get by, even if they were from a mediteranian type climate, but even though the summer may be favourable once the autumn and winter sets in there would be a very low survival rate.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

That wasn`t the reason for the bird legislation,that was more to do with communicable diseases.Animal rights groups are making a big issue of this with herps,although in reality it is a very small risk.


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## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

colinm said:


> That wasn`t the reason for the bird legislation,that was more to do with communicable diseases.Animal rights groups are making a big issue of this with herps,although in reality it is a very small risk.


Colin, it seems clear that for some, the bemoaning of our colleagues in the bird keeping community is an issue for "Twitter". Maybe they consider those of us whom are concerned about these potential incursions to our hobby are just "hissing in the wind"?:whistling2:


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

True Paul.I do believe that the flat earth society is still going four hundred years after Columbus too.

I believe that it will not be one measure to stop the hobby but a combination of a few chipping away.


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