# cremesicle out comes?



## rich07 (Mar 16, 2008)

what would a cremesicle x cremesicle enigma het tremper albino produce,also raptor with the crem enigma?thanks


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## arkreptiles (Sep 26, 2007)

rich07 said:


> what would a cremesicle x cremesicle enigma het tremper albino produce,also raptor with the crem enigma?thanks


The Enigma Morph appears to be an incomplete dominant trait. Therefore breeding an Enigma x non-enigma will be likely to produce 50% Enigma, 50% non-Enigma.

Cremesicles are effectively mack snow hypo's (Mack snow x SHCT/other Hypo). Mack Snow x Mack Snow gives 50% Mack Snow, 25% Mack Super Snow, 25% Normal. From what we understand (I'm sure we will be corrected if wrong!!) the Hypo trait also acts in a similar way to the Co-Dominant Mack Snow trait. So a combination of mack snow hypo x mack snow hypo will produce all the above mack snows each having a chance of being hypo. 

The colouring of the hypo trait is generally line bred so any offspring should have increased amounts of the parents colour.

We're thinking on the 'hoof' here but looking at your cremsicle x cremesicle enigma het tremper combination .... of the Enigma offspring some will be Mack Snow (roughly 50%) of which some will be Enigma Cremsicles. The het tremper bit will only pass down to 50% of all offspring.

A similar logic can be followed with the Raptor x Cremesicle Enigma pairing. However here the 'het tremper' element will combine with the tremper gene in the Raptor morph and you have a chance of producing Tremper Enigma's het for patternless and eclipse. These offspring may also show signs of increased orange colour due to the line bred 'tremper orange' element in the Raptor.

Not sure if this helps or confuses!! - LOL


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

arkreptiles said:


> The Enigma Morph appears to be an incomplete dominant trait.


Why is it "incomplete" dominant? As far as I was aware, no "super" form has been produced, implying it is true dominant to wildtype.

The fact that you get some normals out of a heterozygous-Enigma cross merely proves you have a heterozygous dominant Enigma, not that the trait is incompletely dominant.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

my brain hurts.... !

im a biology degree student.. this really shouldnt be this hard!!!! :lol2:

im looking to cross female mack snow creamsicles with a mack snow albino het blazing blizzard...


*scratches head*


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## arkreptiles (Sep 26, 2007)

chondro13 said:


> my brain hurts.... !
> 
> im a biology degree student.. this really shouldnt be this hard!!!! :lol2:
> 
> ...


Thinking aloud, the mack snow cremesicles are Mack Snow (co-dom trait) combined with the Hypo trait (also acts co-dom we believe) and we understand the term Cremesicle to mean a mack snow ghost (or hypo). The Mack Snow albino obviously has the albino recessive trait and is het for the blizzard trait (also recesive) (we assuming the term 'het BB' to mean this since it is already albino).

If we are understanding all this correctly (and ssthisto certainly will tell us if we are wrong - we're kinda getting there ! lol) 50% of all offspring will be Mack Snow (and 50% of these Hypo or ghost whichever term you prefer), 25% will 'look' normal (again half of these could be hypo) and 25% will be super snows( half hypo). All offspring with be het albino (we assume tremper as it was not stated otherwise), 50% of the offspring will have a chance of being het Blizzard but you will not be able to tell which is and which is not until bred on. 

So we believe in summary:
25% Mack Snow het tremper poss het blizzard
25% mack snow ghost het tremper poss het blizzard
12.5% normal het tremper poss het blizzard
12.5% hypo het tremper poss het blizzard
12.5% mack super snow het tremper poss het blizzard
12.5% mack super snow ghost het tremper poss het blizzard

We've used the term ghost but some may be cremesicle depending how the colour of your cremesicle comes through - this is what we have experienced from our cremesicle/hypo(ghost) group. It's only when their adult colours start to show that it becomes obvious as they look similar when hatched - we can send you some pics of some of our 08's as babies and grown-on if you wish.


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## Alpha Dog (Jan 3, 2008)

Thats why breeding Leos is so much fun, add something with 9 morphs in it like APTORS and it really gets fun.:2thumb:


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## slimrob (Mar 11, 2006)

just to throw a curve ball into this, a good proportion of the "normals" from breeding my enigma are hardly normal ie they seem to carry some enigma features, for example the nose spot and abberant markings (will post some pics later) could there be something passed onto these?? I think it will be a long time before enigmas are completly understood...
rob..


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

arkreptiles said:


> Thinking aloud, the mack snow cremesicles are Mack Snow (co-dom trait) combined with the Hypo trait (also acts co-dom we believe) and we understand the term Cremesicle to mean a mack snow ghost (or hypo). The Mack Snow albino obviously has the albino recessive trait and is het for the blizzard trait (also recesive) (we assuming the term 'het BB' to mean this since it is already albino).
> 
> If we are understanding all this correctly (and ssthisto certainly will tell us if we are wrong - we're kinda getting there ! lol) 50% of all offspring will be Mack Snow (and 50% of these Hypo or ghost whichever term you prefer), 25% will 'look' normal (again half of these could be hypo) and 25% will be super snows( half hypo). All offspring with be het albino (we assume tremper as it was not stated otherwise), 50% of the offspring will have a chance of being het Blizzard but you will not be able to tell which is and which is not until bred on.
> 
> ...


wow hun thanks... wish i could have borrowed your brain for my genetics modular exam! :no1:


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## arkreptiles (Sep 26, 2007)

chondro13 said:


> wow hun thanks... wish i could have borrowed your brain for my genetics modular exam! :no1:


Why thank you!!!! but would still recommend checking with ssthisto as it might not be 100%


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Looks good to me


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## arkreptiles (Sep 26, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> Looks good to me


Well there is a first time for everything !! :lol2:


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