# How to avoid vivarium fires



## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

I came home from work to find my art studio FILLED with smoke. I was terrified there was an electrical fire as I just realised I had no idea what to do if there was.

I had put my blue tongue skink and uromastyx in in there in new 4ft Vivexotics for 48 hours as I had used mould killer in their reptile room before repainting the walls. I shoddily nailed up the 100W ceramics bulbs up with no bulb guards or thermostats (as neither lizard could reach the bulbs and the temps weren't even hot enough for them at their maximum heat).

While I was at work, my BTS' bulb fell down from its own weight and started melting plastic leaves and orchid bark alike, causing a foul, toxic smoke.

Luckily the bulb cut out long before I got home (as it was cold), but the room and especially the viv was filled with smoke. I was in a blind panic when I saw what had happened and got my BTS outside before I did anything else. He's been acting normally though and hopefully the smoke hasn't caused him any lasting damage.










What I've learned from this is the following:

- bulb guards not only protect your animals from getting burned, they also protect bulbs from falling.

- make sure your bulb is hung as securely as possible.

- invest in an extinguisher for electrical fires. You can get one for £22 on amazon and it could save a heck of a lot more. http://amazon.co.uk/dp/B000WTKT0U

- put a smoke alarm near where you keep your reptiles. Ours is in the hallway but with the door the reptiles are always kept in being closed, it would have taken a LOT more smoke for it to trigger it.

Feel free to add more if you think of any!


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

Avoid ceramics :2thumb:

Hope your lizards are okay and haven't suffered from smoke inhalation


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

This was my second day using ceramics too! I bought them for my future carpet pythons that will be using the vivs (once I get the stench out) and then they'll be on 24/7, so I hope you saying to avoid them isn't based on anything else and they'll be safe!

Me too - I feel so utterly terrible about it


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

kitschyduck said:


> This was my second day using ceramics too! I bought them for my future carpet pythons that will be using the vivs (once I get the stench out) and then they'll be on 24/7, so I hope you saying to avoid them isn't based on anything else and they'll be safe!
> 
> Me too - I feel so utterly terrible about it


For fire safety advice contact you local fire service they will help. All I can say without seeing your property (I used to be a fire fighter) is fire extinguishers and a decent first aid kit. 
In this instance only ever use screws on bulb holders never nails and always ceramic bulb holders. 
For fire extinguishers for electrical stuff use powder but this will make a hell of a mess or a Co2 and make sure to turn the power off BEFOR using the etuinguisher and if the fire is bigger than a waste paper bin (the small ones for under desks) get out the house and call the fire service


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

kitschyduck said:


> This was my second day using ceramics too! I bought them for my future carpet pythons that will be using the vivs (once I get the stench out) and then they'll be on 24/7, so I hope you saying to avoid them isn't based on anything else and they'll be safe!
> 
> Me too - I feel so utterly terrible about it


Why not use different bulbs instead of ceramics? They reach high temps and stay hot for a while after going off. I know you said your planning on using them for snakes, but why for these two lizards?

If your going to use them invest in bulb guards can get some cheap in the classified section.


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## stan1 (Oct 31, 2012)

Pleased that it didn't turn out worse and all your reps are okay! Definitely something to think about and investing in an extinguisher for electrical fires is a great idea!


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

TommyR said:


> Why not use different bulbs instead of ceramics? They reach high temps and stay hot for a while after going off. I know you said your planning on using them for snakes, but why for these two lizards?
> 
> If your going to use them invest in bulb guards can get some cheap in the classified section.


I bought two Habistat pulse proportional stats and they can't be used for light bulbs. I also chose ceramics because carpet pythons can be kept with 24/7 heat and this way the light from light bulbs wouldn't bother them all through the night. The lizards usually have UV mercury bulbs and the pine snakes have spot bulbs on dimmer stats.

The lizards were kept in them for 48 hours because their vivs are too big to get out if the reptile room door while I'm redecorating it. 

I planned on buying bulb guards with next months pay as I didn't need them yet, but boy do I regret delaying that!


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

graham40 said:


> For fire safety advice contact you local fire service they will help. All I can say without seeing your property (I used to be a fire fighter) is fire extinguishers and a decent first aid kit.
> In this instance only ever use screws on bulb holders never nails and always ceramic bulb holders.
> For fire extinguishers for electrical stuff use powder but this will make a hell of a mess or a Co2 and make sure to turn the power off BEFOR using the etuinguisher and if the fire is bigger than a waste paper bin (the small ones for under desks) get out the house and call the fire service


" make sure you turn the power off before using the extinguisher " Then its not an electrical fire so you are ok to use water. Well I am no fire man but an electrician and thats the way I see it. What are your views. I would flick the electric off and use my outside hose pipe which is permanently connected and through the patio window could reach any room in the house in a very short time or the washing up bowl full of water if that would be enough. Your the professional is this feasible as a garden hose on full should put out a small fire.I suppose it depends on what you consider small and the smoke levels involved.Not sure I could exit the house and watch a waste paper bin size fire grow massive while waiting 10/15 mins for you guys to turn up if I have a good hose handy and the smoke is not to bad.Then again I suppose a few who have burnt to death have thought the same :lol: 

Vivs are a high risk for fire and the one in the news killing all the reptiles will probably be an electrical fire. Well worth checking them regular, especially the electrical connections.


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## *Blackadder* (Jul 16, 2011)

TommyR said:


> Avoid ceramics :2thumb:
> 
> Hope your lizards are okay and haven't suffered from smoke inhalation


More of a badly setup viv then the ceramics fault.

Glad it wasn't to bad kitschyduck,and that all your reps are safe


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## TTYY (Mar 4, 2013)

Avoid ceramics? 

If the fitting had been secured to the top of the viv it would't have fallen down.
Also when a ceramic is at its peek temperature it can cause some extremely nasty burns to you or your animal so a ceramic cage is a must have. 

Black Deluxe Spotlight Guard

Don't avoid ceramics as i've known ceramic heat emitters to last for years and heat bulbs to have gone on me in a matter of days, so in turms of cost efficiency ceramics win. Just remember to use them safely.


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

ghand said:


> " make sure you turn the power off before using the extinguisher " Then its not an electrical fire so you are ok to use water. Well I am no fire man but an electrician and thats the way I see it. What are your views. I would flick the electric off and use my outside hose pipe which is permanently connected and through the patio window could reach any room in the house in a very short time or the washing up bowl full of water if that would be enough. Your the professional is this feasible as a garden hose on full should put out a small fire.I suppose it depends on what you consider small and the smoke levels involved.Not sure I could exit the house and watch a waste paper bin size fire grow massive while waiting 10/15 mins for you guys to turn up if I have a good hose handy and the smoke is not to bad.Then again I suppose a few who have burnt to death have thought the same :lol:
> 
> Vivs are a high risk for fire and the one in the news killing all the reptiles will probably be an electrical fire. Well worth checking them regular, especially the electrical connections.


Well you raise some good points. 
The main reason for still not using water is that some electrical equipment when turned off will still hold a charge then when hit by water will instantly discharge making the fire worse. 
I understand you won't want to wait 10/15 mins but if your covered by a full time station there aim is 7 mins and they usually make that. 
If your covered by a retained station then that time is doubled so extra precaution should be taken


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## AlanK (Jan 4, 2013)

Between this and the fire ath the Five Sisters Zoo I think we should all be rechecking our own set ups!


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

TTYY said:


> Avoid ceramics?
> 
> If the fitting had been secured to the top of the viv it would't have fallen down.
> Also when a ceramic is at its peek temperature it can cause some extremely nasty burns to you or your animal so a ceramic cage is a must have.
> ...


The last spotlight bulb I put in lasted a week (found it didn't turn on this morning)! I may switch to ceramics in my other snake tanks. The only thing that puts me off is not being able to grab one from B&Q quickly and not being able to notice if it has blown at first glance.

I've ordered these to guard my ceramic bulbs: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ProRep-Heat...TF8&qid=1366186458&sr=1-2&keywords=bulb+guard will they be ok?


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## AlanK (Jan 4, 2013)

Re fighting a fire yourself - its your call but bear in mind the other aspect is saving property figures a lot lower than saving life and the smoke will get you before the fire does!


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

AlanK said:


> Re fighting a fire yourself - its your call but bear in mind the other aspect is saving property figures a lot lower than saving life and the smoke will get you before the fire does!


Very true. In that Philpott case (the parents that set fire to their own house), their six children that died were never burned by the flames.


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## ghand (Nov 4, 2012)

graham40 said:


> Well you raise some good points.
> The main reason for still not using water is that some electrical equipment when turned off will still hold a charge then when hit by water will instantly discharge making the fire worse.
> I understand you won't want to wait 10/15 mins but if your covered by a full time station there aim is 7 mins and they usually make that.
> If your covered by a retained station then that time is doubled so extra precaution should be taken


Interesting that a fire man thinks that about holding a charge, absolutely no offense as its what you guys may be told but in any domestic situation you may have tiny capacitors in electronic equipment which will hold a very very small charge, so small if you short them with a wire you get a tiny little spark like on a cig lighter and thats it.It is imposable to have any effect on a fire I work in industry and we have some massive capacitor banks the size of a wardrobe on 415v so fair comment with the water then. I always though it was to prevent electric shock to the person holing the hose which is very probable 

Drifting off topic a little sorry guys :lol:


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## AlanK (Jan 4, 2013)

Timing is everything - this has just been reported* :-

Man in hospital after Newcastleton pet reptile tank fire*

Two men suffered from smoke inhalation after a fire started in a pet reptile tank in a Borders village.

BBC News - Man in hospital after Newcastleton pet reptile tank fire

17 April 2013 Last updated at 09:57


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

ghand said:


> " make sure you turn the power off before using the extinguisher " Then its not an electrical fire so you are ok to use water. Well I am no fire man but an electrician and thats the way I see it. What are your views. I would flick the electric off and use my outside hose pipe which is permanently connected and through the patio window could reach any room in the house in a very short time or the washing up bowl full of water if that would be enough. Your the professional is this feasible as a garden hose on full should put out a small fire.I suppose it depends on what you consider small and the smoke levels involved.Not sure I could exit the house and watch a waste paper bin size fire grow massive while waiting 10/15 mins for you guys to turn up if I have a good hose handy and the smoke is not to bad.Then again I suppose a few who have burnt to death have thought the same :lol:
> 
> Vivs are a high risk for fire and the one in the news killing all the reptiles will probably be an electrical fire. Well worth checking them regular, especially the electrical connections.


Well you raise some good points. 
The main reason for still not using water is that some electrical equipment when turned off will still hold a charge then when hit by water will instantly discharge making the fire worse. 
I understand you won't want to wait 10/15 mins but if your covered by a full time station there aim is 7 mins and they usually make that. 
If your covered by a retained station then that time is doubled so extra precaution should be taken

Edit : sorry phone did it twice


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

ghand said:


> Interesting that a fire man thinks that about holding a charge, absolutely no offense as its what you guys may be told but in any domestic situation you may have tiny capacitors in electronic equipment which will hold a very very small charge, so small if you short them with a wire you get a tiny little spark like on a cig lighter and thats it.It is imposable to have any effect on a fire I work in industry and we have some massive capacitor banks the size of a wardrobe on 415v so fair comment with the water then. I always though it was to prevent electric shock to the person holing the hose which is very probable
> 
> Drifting off topic a little sorry guys :lol:


I understand that but usually we don't have time to asses the situation to that much detail. So everything is treated as a worse situation possible which in my opinion is the bet thing to do so there is less to go wrong and the general public is also taught that. In my opinion if there is smoke or even a small fire Ian room you should ring the fire service as even opening the door can cause an explosion


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

Really sound advice, I guard my bulbs (admittedly, I only use two, I generally use heat mats as I don't keep anything that needs to be mega hot like beardies, monitors, uros, etc) for the simple reason that I want to make sure that should anything happen to them, they're locked on a metal cage lol.


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

graham40 said:


> even opening the door can cause an explosion


I didn't even THINK of that when I opened the door to see where the smoke smell was coming from!!!!

I'm still really upset and shook up about the whole thing and my husband is super pissed that the house reeks. I should really just thank my lucky stars and be jumping for joy that my reptiles and home are still okay with only about £20 worth of damage.

Fat chance I'll ever sell my wedding dress now though lol (it was hanging by the viv)


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

AlanK said:


> Timing is everything - this has just been reported* :-
> 
> Man in hospital after Newcastleton pet reptile tank fire*
> 
> ...


Suspected electrical fault? Even if all my vivs are set up correctly, there's still some risk of fire then surely?

Part of me is wondering if it's wise to keep reptiles (and so many) at all...


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Everything I have is on power surge protection sockets. I also don't use cheap ebay heatmats/bulbs (usually made in china) after hearing all sorts of nasty things about them.

The amount of wires worries me though, espeically when they are all clumped together.


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

kitschyduck said:


> I didn't even THINK of that when I opened the door to see where the smoke smell was coming from!!!!
> 
> I'm still really upset and shook up about the whole thing and my husband is super pissed that the house reeks. I should really just thank my lucky stars and be jumping for joy that my reptiles and home are still okay with only about £20 worth of damage.
> 
> Fat chance I'll ever sell my wedding dress now though lol (it was hanging by the viv)


If anyone that is following this thread ever comes home and a room is full of smoke just leave the house and call the fire brigade. 
There will be at least 2 fire appliances turn up they are going to jump out in all their BA go storming in with there hose (not on untill they find a fire) 
In the time you have spent trying to put it out you've wasted 5 very valuable minuets that can make a huge difference
Here is a 2 min video to show how quick fire can spread 
I don't want to scare anyone or stop people from keeping reps at all just with sustain equipment extra care needs to be taken
Christmas tree fire destroys a living room in under a minute - YouTube


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

graham40 said:


> If anyone that is following this thread ever comes home and a room is full of smoke just leave the house and call the fire brigade.
> There will be at least 2 fire appliances turn up they are going to jump out in all their BA go storming in with there hose (not on untill they find a fire)
> In the time you have spent trying to put it out you've wasted 5 very valuable minuets that can make a huge difference
> Here is a 2 min video to show how quick fire can spread
> ...


You have been an asset to this thread! 
This should be a sticky! (or at least a similar thread in the newbie section or something)


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Four simple words.

Get Out, Stay Out.


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

dramen said:


> Four simple words.
> 
> Get Out, Stay Out.


Bugger, I was thinking more like "Go to the Pub"

Seriously to me it looks like the problem was in the OP's own words "shoddy" nailing of ther fittings to the viv, nails do not work well on mdf, particle board etc, always use screws etc. In this instance a bulb guard may of helped, I say because some guards are plastic coated metal plus if the guards had equally been shoddily nailed up then problem still occurs.

Hope the OP's reps have fully recovered :2thumb:


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

kitschyduck said:


> You have been an asset to this thread!
> This should be a sticky! (or at least a similar thread in the newbie section or something)


Maybe a fire safety thread ye that would be good. I would do it I haven't got the time to be honest. 
If anyone has any other questions about fire safety. Post them or PM me. Ill be happy to help


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

dramen said:


> Four simple words.
> 
> Get Out, Stay Out.


^this it only takes 2-3 breaths of smoke render unconscious/ to kill you.


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> ^this it only takes 2-3 breaths of smoke render unconscious/ to kill you.


So true. Another prob is the smoke is so hot it burns your throte and lungs which then makes these create puss causing your body to effectively drown your self


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

graham40 said:


> So true. Another prob is the smoke is so hot it burns your throte and lungs which then makes these create puss causing your body to effectively drown your self


Fire scares the hell out of me tbh, ive had a few close calls myself in the past funny enough with ceramics.


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

graham40 said:


> Maybe a fire safety thread ye that would be good. I would do it I haven't got the time to be honest.
> If anyone has any other questions about fire safety. Post them or PM me. Ill be happy to help


If there was a fault with a bulb or heat mat etc would an RCD trip switch help prevent a fire starting or can a fire still start regardless?

Is it worth having a fire blanket? Do you just put it over a small fire?

We have RCD trip switches (not sure that's the exact name), and a mini fire extinguisher and fire alarm outside my pets room, I already have paranoia about fires so seeing all these stories of fires caused by rep equipment is making me more worried


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Fire scares the hell out of me tbh, ive had a few close calls myself in the past funny enough with ceramics.


It scares the hell out of me as well genes the reason I used to be a fire fighter. Should be back befor long though. 
Anyone who isn't scared by fire is wishing their life away 
As said if you see smoke then get out the fire service don't mind responding to genuine calls even if there isn't fire and by not doing so straight away you are wasting valuable time. 
People say o ill get the hose or a bucket of water if it ever happens to me but when it happens it happens so quick you are most likely be caught out or freeze up. 
The only thing you need is 999/112 and the problem will be sorted


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## graham40 (Dec 19, 2011)

samurai said:


> If there was a fault with a bulb or heat mat etc would an RCD trip switch help prevent a fire starting or can a fire still start regardless?
> 
> Is it worth having a fire blanket? Do you just put it over a small fire?
> 
> We have RCD trip switches (not sure that's the exact name), and a mini fire extinguisher and fire alarm outside my pets room, I already have paranoia about fires so seeing all these stories of fires caused by rep equipment is making me more worried


Don't gett overly worried. The trips might help as if the cable gets hot they will trip. But in a case like this particular one then no they wouldn't to be honest. If you smell smoke an the the door is closed check if the smoke is coming from under the door if so or the smell is very strong then leave the house and dial 999. If you can get the nabours out side as well then do.


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

When I got home from work yesterday my BTS was basking and suddenly started thrashing his head from side to side (like he does if he has food on his face) with closed eyes. I immediately got him out and help him and he kept closing his eyes tight.

Since the vet had closed before I got home from work and went straight to an answer machine, I googled what I could do for him and everyone just says to speak to a vet. Does anyone know if a vet can even do anything for him? The earliest I can him to a vet would be Saturday morning, three days after he inhaled the smoke.

I checked on him later in the evening and he was acting normally again.


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

Just got on the phone to the vet while my boss was out of the room and they said they would get a specialist to call me back about him before 5pm.

In the seven years I've kept reptiles I've never needed to get them vet treatment until now! Shame this vet is 40 mins away and not 5 like the one I take my mammals and chickens to.


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## mariusz (May 11, 2008)

This happened to with my Bosc a few weeks ago.
If your taking him to the vets , make sure they are familiar with reptiles or this will be a wasted journey. Check and find a good vetinary surgeon in the area.
Problems from smoke inhalation can present 72 hrs after the incident.
Look for see saw breathing, mouth open continuously. Check to see the colour of the tissue inside the mouth / throat. Obviously this should be a nice pink and not a blue or grey cianosed colour.
The treatment would be antibiotics and humidified oxygen.
There is a debate on humidified oxygen in reptiles. Just make sure they have water to drink.
If you are at all, worried, I would ask for a dose of antibiotics.

Hope this helps you out.


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## mariusz (May 11, 2008)

PS be careful, as some vets are unsure on dosage of antibiotics to give reptiles.
There is a simple body weight calculation for dosage for us humans and most mamals, but who knows for reptiles?


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

The vet said the only thing I can do is just keep an eye on him. Good news though - just now I saw him drinking loads and loads and opening his mouth wide to make it all go down. He also ate quite a bit and went to bask with his eyes closed. I think he's uncomfortable but on the mend at least. I took some photos just now:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=954416

I love him so much that I hope this hasn't shortened his life span in the long run though.


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## kitschyduck (May 30, 2010)

Almost two weeks later and Vincent has gone down hill. His breathing is SO loud and sounds 'bubbly' or perhaps full of muscus. They don't have a specialist at the reptile vet handy until next week but my normal vet (who say they'll gladly see reptiles but aren't specialists) can see him tomorrow.


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