# new breeding pair of discus



## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

i finaly got my breeding pair today, after years of wanting some i finaly took the plunge to get some, so had the tank all set up and after finding one of the best breeders in the uk i ordered my pair, they didnt come cheap lol but worth every penny, they are just over 6" in size










male leopard









female red turq


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

they're beautiful :no1:


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

The leopard is looking a little stressed. Any chance of a close up pic of the leopard near the face on the right hand side?


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

Paul Butler said:


> The leopard is looking a little stressed. Any chance of a close up pic of the leopard near the face on the right hand side?


they came from london today to the north west the pics was only taken half hour after i got them


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## CPT BJ (Oct 30, 2010)

They are stunning .


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## jase n kate (Mar 21, 2010)

Gorgeous Discus, the hardest fish i have ever kept! Even Marine fish 100 times easier! Hats off to you, good luck and happy breeding! x


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Absolutely stunning indeed! Congrats  I'd be shocked if they _weren't_ stressed after you just got them :|


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Hope they settle in.

Funnily, I have a pair of the same combination of male (leopard) and female (red turquoise) mate up; the mating up process of these happened to be most peaceful I've ever had with Discus.

Keep us up to speed on how these get on with settling in and with doing the business for you.

ian


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## simonas (Apr 12, 2008)

stunning I hope mine colour up as good as that when they are bigger

I disagree bout the hardest fish I keep marine as well and discus are far easier:lol2:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

AshMashMash said:


> I'd be shocked if they _weren't_ stressed after you just got them :|


 tis what i thought :lol2:


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

They'll be fine after a day or two.

Discus are easy to keep. Especially tank bred strains like these two. 

There are far more challenging cichlids out there to try and keep and breed. It amazes me why people think they're difficult!


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Mynki said:


> They'll be fine after a day or two.
> 
> Discus are easy to keep. Especially tank bred strains like these two.
> 
> There are far more challenging cichlids out there to try and keep and breed. It amazes me why people think they're difficult!


The answer is easy.......
Discus have been in the hobby for donkeys years, and in the early days of 1933 it would have difficult to get decent temperatures using candles under slate bottom tanks etc etc....people found them difficult to keep in those days and wrote that in books.

Then some author 30 years later simply copied what was said from the 1933 quote.

Then someone re-copies it and suddenly we end up with "facts" that were truly valid once-upon-a-time but have since been shown to be easily sorted.

But we can't be too complacent about the delicate nature of the Discus, and some people plonk them into crap conditions....and lo and behold, they die.

I have seen some absolute rubbish written on the internet and elsewhere about the conditions required for Discus.

Then you get the pseudo scientific nonesense being plucked at and put forward as urban myths.

And to add just one more addition (without going into too many reasons), there has been an awful haughty snobbery from Discus keepers over the years. That has not helped.

But, having said that the difference between Marine water and Discus water is that Marine water is a no-brainer to get right.

There are some special sensitivities in Discus, and they require a strict diet for longevity....but often people ignore some of the more important aspects and chase pH and hardness rainbows instead in searching for the 'magical pot of gold' and lose sight of the real goals along the way.

ian


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Ian

I'm aware of the info written well before the internet, but it still amazes me how people have not sought more modern information.

I know there is sometimes confusion over the water params required for WC and CB discus, but people really should be able to find decent info quickly and easily enough.

I completely agree about the snobbery involved in keeping them. Though I deliberately didn't post my thoughts on crossing different strains for the sake of it. lol

Best
Mynki


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

Mynki,

The internet is a minefield of some good info in amongst loadsa rubbish.
Much of the info has no means of peer input, and others trying to search for something might so happen to hit upon the 90% chance of a google hit on a nonesense site.

Then you get the 'duff' logic being applied....and Discus were at one time poor victims of such duff logic. Here's a classic example from what happened in the 70s:
One person reads "Discus require soft water".
Then the next question is "how do you get soft water?", to which a reply might be 
"get a Permutit water softener OR use Sodium Carbonate crystals for washing machines".... to which the outcome is disaster. Yep the water is soft for washing woolens, but not the type of soft that is suitable for fish keeping.
I used to have loads of dead discus brought to me for autopsy with clear signs of attempts to soften water.

And in modern times, I've seen some pretty desperate discus being kept in RO water where there is clearly no pH buffering or redox potential and redox buffering considerations yet the measured pH and hardness are quoted as 'text book'. That is another potential downfall where Discus are choice victims. 

Back in the days, I was giving talks and doing articles that looked at parts of water parameters that were not in every textbook, and I did not get greeted with open arms (as it all went against the 'grain'). It is good to see that 30 odd years on, there is now a wider look at what I was shouting about in them days. 

As for the cross-breeding, I'm a bit of a purist in some parts. But I've become more moderate when it comes to the idea of crossing one man-made strain with another. They are bit of a melting pot to start with anyway.
I would, however, tut tut on cross-breeding the wild-types (ie crosses of species/sub-species or whatever some taxonomist decides this decade! or locality morphotype). 

ian


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## jase n kate (Mar 21, 2010)

simonas said:


> stunning I hope mine colour up as good as that when they are bigger
> 
> I disagree bout the hardest fish I keep marine as well and discus are far easier:lol2:


Maybe it was just us then lol, we never had any trouble with marine at all and find them pretty easy to keep but just had continuous problems with discus! O wells, shame coz they are stuning fish! x


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

igmillichip said:


> Mynki,
> 
> The internet is a minefield of some good info in amongst loadsa rubbish.
> Much of the info has no means of peer input, and others trying to search for something might so happen to hit upon the 90% chance of a google hit on a nonesense site.
> ...


Ian

Do you really think I don't know about duff info being available on the internet? lol Or even on this fishkeeping sub forum of RFUK? Look at pretty much any post made by the member Berry1 and you'll see what I mean!

If I were taking delivery of wild caught discus tomorrow the water would be soft and acidic. If I were taking delivery of discus bred in the far east 
I'd expect it be harder and slightly alkaline. Thats the point I'm making.

Theres plenty of crap info about on discus specific forums also. 

I'd not cross breed strains without very good reason. But I understand how most keepers buy fish they like the look of or cost effective pairs without ever really thinking about producing high quality offspring, which is why LFS are full of square shaped discus!

I much prefer wild types. Just my prefereence though... Then again I much prefer biotope aquaria full stop!


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

lots of debate going on hear, i started this thread to show my new discus, they have settled in very well the colours are even brighter today, i know wot people mean when they say they dont like cross breeding but these are a proven pair so nothing i can do there, ive very happy with them and all the advice that came with them,


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

I am even becoming even more cynical and satirical with all the crap I see.
Not too sure if you're an old man yet Mynki, but keep hold of your sanity before you get to my state. :lol2:

And.....and I'm resisting a rant, when we have so much crap to contend with it makes trying to stress the right way double more difficult because not only will you find you're trying to get the correct message across but you're also trying to address and abrogate the crap urban myths. Headache.

Anyway, you've reminded me....I saw some lovely oblong discus with massive bubble-eyes. Must go and get me some. (not) (...but....well, my lungfish asked for some for his tank).

Actually, I love to see Brown Discus in shops as they don't seem to have suffered the same fate as many others (probably because they are either wild or offspring from wild ones). Perfecto majestico bodies on all the ones I've seen around (which isn't too many though) in recent years.

Chat again....I'm off to buy this weeks stock of varied diet for my animals (if only my diet were as healthy).

ian


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## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> lots of debate going on hear, i started this thread to show my new discus, they have settled in very well the colours are even brighter today, i know wot people mean when they say they dont like cross breeding but these are a proven pair so nothing i can do there, ive very happy with them and all the advice that came with them,


I've bumped your post down as, yes, this was what the thread was originally about.

ian


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> lots of debate going on hear, i started this thread to show my new discus, they have settled in very well the colours are even brighter today, i know wot people mean when they say they dont like cross breeding but these are a proven pair so nothing i can do there, ive very happy with them and all the advice that came with them,


Glad to hear they have settled, didn't realise you had only had them for half an hour!

Anymore pics?


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

Paul Butler said:


> Glad to hear they have settled, didn't realise you had only had them for half an hour!
> 
> Anymore pics?


not yet lol but they are feeding well and realy bright, now looking for more tanks and some more fish lol


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> not yet lol but they are feeding well and realy bright, now looking for more tanks and some more fish lol


leopards are one of my all time favourite strains so always like looking at them  good to hear they are doing well.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

Paul Butler said:


> leopards are one of my all time favourite strains so always like looking at them  good to hear they are doing well.


do u keep discus still?


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> do u keep discus still?


Yep, quite a few


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

wot u got and any good advice, also who do u recomend that delivers fish


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> wot u got and any good advice, also who do u recomend that delivers fish


I have wild caught semi royal tefes, domestic leopards, golden leopards, valentines, albino turk, golden albinos, brilliant turks, solid turks, ordinary turks, marlbouroughs and some that are called white peacocks. The names the breeders give their fish make me laugh but hey, that's what they call them so ...

As far as advice goes, well lots of clean water, decent food and temps between 82f and 86f (28C to 30C). Don't mess with the water, just keep it clean. Click my banner below and have a look around (not selling anything) it is my forum on discus. If you keep things simple and keep the water clean discus are easy enough to keep.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

how often do u recomend i should do water changes and how much % wise?


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> how often do u recomend i should do water changes and how much % wise?


all depends on how many, how big and how much you feed. 

I change around 25% -33% daily or every other day on my adults, but I am heavily stocked and am a bit of a water warrior. In my display tank when it had discus (now has Altums) I did, and still do, two water changes a week of around 40% each time. On fry I do two water changes a day, one of 33% and one of 75%. 

With adult discus you can do far less though than I do and still have success, the fish will soon enough tell you, discus are one of the more sensitive fish where water quality is concerned. Get the water right and they are bullet proof though, much tougher than myth will have you believe.

If you had six adult discus in a 300 litre tank with very few other fish then doing weekly water changes of around 33% will be a good starting point.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

its just the pair i have in a 110L tank and im doing about 20% a day at the moment, im using 100% then adding the minerals ect, wot are ur views on HMA and how do u go about using it can u just use 100% hma or does it have to be mixed with RO?


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## Paul Butler (Mar 7, 2010)

shep1979 said:


> its just the pair i have in a 110L tank and im doing about 20% a day at the moment, im using 100% then adding the minerals ect, wot are ur views on HMA and how do u go about using it can u just use 100% hma or does it have to be mixed with RO?


You are in the North West, most of the water around there is good for discus out of the tap. Do you know what your water params are? Kh & Gh or tds etc? you may find that HMA alone will be all you need.


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

Paul Butler said:


> You are in the North West, most of the water around there is good for discus out of the tap. Do you know what your water params are? Kh & Gh or tds etc? you may find that HMA alone will be all you need.


it did the tests on the ro water with it all set up in the tank but cant remember wot it is, i will test the water out of the tap to see


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