# Our appeal was successful



## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

For those of you who are aware of it - myself and my partner were accused of animal cruelty by the local council. We were taken to magistrates court and in Arpil this year we were found guilty. We appealed last week and all animal convictions were overturned with a Crown court judge and two magistrates stating that there was no evidence given to the court to substansiate the claim by the council. Basically there was NO EVIDENCE. Our defence vet who stood up for us is a vet who normally prosecutes on behalf of the RSPCA and she would not have stood up for us if she had any doubt about the truth. All our sentences were overturned which includes the ban from keeping animals.
We were found guilty of blocking a fire exit in the shop which both myself and my partner admitted to doing and got a conditional discharge.

There was a very long and nasty thread posted about myself and my partner back in April (the link is below); with many people choosing to believe what they read in the papers and on the internet. Back then I stood up for myself and told everyone to keep their opinions to themselves until the outcome of the appeal. Well for those of you who doubted our innocence the proof is now here - for a well respected and extremely experienced Crown court judge to go with us is proof that the evidence just was not there. The last judge who did convict us said that due to our home conditions it was obvious we couldnt look after our animals - well in that case would that have meant if our home was a palace we wouldnt have got convicted? It makes no sense and we have been persecuted due to that opinion. I know people will make comment on dead animals found on the premises and I will say if you can find me a pet store in the land that does not get dead animals from time to time then I will be amazed. What was not listed was that most of the deads were found in freezers - some awaiting buriel after autopsies by our vet had been conducted by us. The council chose to do NO autopsies in this case which means that the animals they claimed died due to neglect was not proved and the fact that no autopsies were done proves that they knew if any were carried out they wouldnt show what they wanted them too. The fact that we did have autopsies done shows that we cared for our animals and wanted to know cause of death - we lost a couple of parrots after buying new ones in and wanted to know whether a disease had been brought in. If we didnt care we would not have done that, we wouldnt have spent the moeny we did getting lab reports and suchlike on the deads. Plus some of the deads were animals which came into us from suppliers unwell and subsequently died and some werent even ours! We had a few snakes which owners had brought in as non-feeders which died before we could get them to a vet so we stored the bodies to prove to the owners they had died. The method of freezing bodies to prove death to either suppliers or owners is standard practice throughout the pet industry and we were prosecuted.

I hope that those of you who passed judgement on us have the guts to come on here and publicly apologise for the wrong assumptions and hurt you have caused myself and my family. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/general-herp-chat/284155-once-bad-pet-shop-gets.html
Alink to the gazette website...
Gazette Live - News - Local News - Billingham animal cruelty case pet shop owners cleared on appeal


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

*CONGRATS LAUREN & CRAIG *
What no replies yet, you all had plenty to say when they were found guilty.


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

I hadn't read the previous post until now but I'd like to think I'd have kept an open mind and not joined those slating you. I've spent the last half hour reading through it. Well done on winning the appeal and sorry you had to endure so much. And so much from the people on here! :no1:

Chris


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Well I can say I am glad you have been found inocent and anyone who did not care for there animals, would not have fought against this what I will say however perhaps this is a strong learning curve for everyone not to pass judgement ontil the outcome of events is silenced..

everyone is entitled to there own opinions yes but those opinions should be kept to themselves especially in regards to something like this.

well done by the way I hope you will eventually recover :no1:
Kindest regards Dixon


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

> -*KATO* I will quite gladly eat my hat if the convictions are quoshed





> -*Kato* Well when the conviction is overturned, you just let me know and I'll eat my hat. lol


I would love to see that, mind you dont choke on it.


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## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

uroplatus said:


> I know people will make comment on dead animals found on the premises and I will say if you can find me a pet store in the land that does not get dead animals from time to time then I will be amazed. What was not listed was that most of the deads were found in freezers


Having just read some of the comments on the Gazette article you have just linked, it does seem like Joe Public genuinely thinks that dead animals get buried in a little garden out the back of the shop :bash: Naivety spilling out into vindiction, that's what annoys me.

Having worked in a pet shop, I know that animal freezers can build up their numbers before the cremation people come to collect... does this mean 100s of pet shops around the country should be prosecuted too?


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

the problem is that people do belive what the papers say I know that they are just people who do exagerate the truth to its highest...

the media is lies people nothing but lies I know trhis to be true as I had an incodent last year lol il not go into details but once the media published this it was a load of waffle also on the other hand you can thank the meduia for this reptile keeping hobby to have a bad name I shall say no more.


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## bluejon91 (Sep 1, 2009)

congratulations the truth will allways come out int the end


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## Juggernaut (Aug 10, 2008)

congrats, but make sure you sue them, they made you look like scumbags


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Hmm this calls for a step by step recipe!

1) Take action against council if possible

2) Take action against newspaper or at least make them print an article about your successful appeal.

3) Post this in the lizard sub-forum, I want to see hats getting eaten! 

Gosh I remember this now! I didn't comment as tbh I wasn't there and didn't know all the facts, I know the council know f-all and make up crap, but at the same time I know forum members on here can stick up for friends even when in reality they've done wrong, so I was waiting for the final result.

Congrats on the real truth getting out though, must have been terrible to be banned from keeping animals. Are you allowed to open your shop again?


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

Well Lauren, I never doubted you for a second, you know that....so I am so pleased to see that the truth has finally been realised by the courts. Now to kick some council ass! And Julie...I would also like to see the hat-eating


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Congrats on the verdict, I remember reading that thread and thinking a news report always goes for a shock factor and not necessarily the full and explained truth.

I presume (rightly or wrongly) the animals were taken away while it was all being decided, were any of them personal pets? Do you know what happened to them or if they will be coming back?


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## Julie&James (Sep 24, 2007)

> -*KATO* I will quite gladly eat my hat if the convictions are quoshed
> 
> 
> -*Kato* Well when the conviction is overturned, you just let me know and I'll eat my hat. lol
> ...


James here.

I haven't posted on RFUK since the aforementioned thread, because I was so disgusted by the behaviour of certain people on the forums that I frankly had no desire to continue to participate in the sort of place where a witch-hunt of the kind carried out against Lauren and Craig, and by extension Julie, could take place with the full approval (and even participation) of senior posters and moderators. 

Now that the verdict has 100% vindicated Lauren and Craig and also those of us who stood by them while the press, the courts, and certain elements of these forums trashed them left and right, I feel one last post won't hurt.

Kato, after so many months, you might think you can shrug off the aforementioned quotes as "just a turn of phrase", but from my reading of events you stated TWICE - with a smug and assured laugh - that you were so sure of yourself that you'd eat your hat if this eventuality came about. Well, it has come about, and until such time that you post PICS on here of you doing just that, I'll be unable to take a single word you say as anything other than hot air. I wont hold my breath to see them though.

Maybe it's unfair to single you out, but reading back over that thread, you were bullish to the extreme, going so far as to warn me of the "dangers of libelling" the original judge (a person you hinted that you knew), claiming superior knowledge of the law, dismissing any idea that this process might be faulty, deriding the idea that the appeal might overturn the verdict - all in the face of evidence you clearly had no idea about. You weren't alone, and there are others who need to eat crow just as much as you do, but your position as a respected and senior poster on the forums gives extra weight to your posts, and gives other forum members a guide as to what is and is not acceptable.

At the very least, I'm sure you and all the others who jumped on the bandwagon in that thread would like to take this opportunity to apologise unreservedly to Julie, Lauren and Craig for the additional stress and damage to their reputation which they might justifiably have expected *not* to receive on a forum full of reptile enthusiasts who know just how much the hobby is already vilified by some minorities in society - and how easy it is to take a pinch of incomplete information and use it to paint any of us as villains. 

As for me, I'm just delighted for them that the nightmare is over, and they can start to build back towards some kind of normality. 

I now return you to your regular contributor - the lovely Julie.


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## jack14 (Oct 4, 2008)

well done i was hoping it would all come out ok for you:2thumb:
and cant you sue the council for wrongly accusing you ?
if you can its worth a shot :whistling2:


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thank you to everyone so far who has given us congratulations. I notice none of the original posters who trashed us have been on yet :whistling2:
I find it very telling that so many people have read this but only 12 people so far have replied and those people were not the original perpetrators. People love to jump on the bandwagon and trash peoples reputation but are nowere near as quick to apologise.

A massive thank you to some amazing forum members who have supported me throughtout this nightmare - biohazard156, suez, wacky69, sarasin (mam) and julie&james to name some of them - without you guys I think I might have lost my mind.

James thanks for a post which I think is well justified.

Joeyboy - legally yes I am allowed to reopen my shop but I dont think I would ever go down that route again certainly not in the stockton councils area. I think I would rather work away from pet stores - at least for now anyway.



> I presume (rightly or wrongly) the animals were taken away while it was all being decided, were any of them personal pets? Do you know what happened to them or if they will be coming back?


Yes all of the animals bar our dog were removed - over 350 animals in total. None of which were returned even though the council charged us with a very small amount of them they refused to give us any of them back. A large proportion of them were personal pets including some pastel boas which I had grown on from neonates and were 5 feet, some I had own for over 10 years and some were hand reared parrots which were bonded to me. I have no idea whether the council have any of them left or whether they have 'died' as quoted in letters to our solicitor by their legal team. I seriously doubt I will see any of my animals again. Its a situation I would never ever wish upon my worst enemy especially as there isnt a single thing I could do about it. Its as if part of my family has been taken away - I doubt I will ever get over that fact. No amount of compensation can bring back those animals.

I will be keeping a very close eye on this thread and Im still waiting for my apologies.


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## Tarn~Totty (May 4, 2009)

I dont know any of what went off before (I will go have a read of the other thread later) as I dont think I was a member then, but would like to say well done on getting the result : victory:

And also to offer my sympathies on the loss of all your animals, you must be in bits what with all the court stuff, forum stuff, loosing your pet shop...and to not know where they are, if theyre ok, if you will ever see them again on top of all that, you must be gutted. So sorry mate :sad: it all sucks big time.

Hope you manage to get back to some sort of normality, best of luck for the future hun...and a big :grouphug: for you xx


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

Congratulations, I know it has been an ongoing hell for you both. 

I am glad things have gone in your favour and you can once again do what you love to do.

Liz


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## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

I was actually offline and out of the country when the orginal thread was created so the first I have come to know about it is today and only really read the first post by uro. 

Obviously I dont know uroplatus but I do wish you all the best and congrats on the result. I just hope you can now get back on track mate and hopefully you get compensated for whats gone on.


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

sarasin said:


> I would love to see that, mind you dont choke on it.


Look I will be perfectly honest with you I have had hat for tea.:blush:

But what we must remember as a nation we must respect what the Courts say, when we fail to do so then our Country will fall to bits.

What I said in previous threads I stick by the Courts decision at the time and before you think folk have gone by what was said in the Papers, the Courts did Convict without the aid of local rags. I base my comments on what the Courts said.

You seem to have singled me out from half a dozen or so others who made there opinions known on the original Thread, I find this very hard to understand as all along I never made any personal attacks on those involved. I even said more than once that there was no doubting that as a couple there was no doubting that they were more than capable of good animal husbandry.

So, I hope that you have every success getting your business back on track and wish you the best of luck seeking compensation from the Courts.


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## turpin's corner (Jul 28, 2009)

Not 100% certain of what occurred previously but from the look of the info, you suffered needlessly and unduly at the hands of others here on RFUK.. While I was not on this fora at the time, I'm glad to be able to say a hearty congrats and I wish you and those closest to you a happy future..

:2thumb:


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

Julie&James said:


> James here.
> 
> I haven't posted on RFUK since the aforementioned thread, because I was so disgusted by the behaviour of certain people on the forums that I frankly had no desire to continue to participate in the sort of place where a witch-hunt of the kind carried out against Lauren and Craig, and by extension Julie, could take place with the full approval (and even participation) of senior posters and moderators.
> 
> ...


I would just like to correct you there, Lauren and Craig were not one hundred per cent vindicated. But I do think that they have done well in having Convictions quoshed and wish them well.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. Yes, I admit I am bullish and straight to the point. Also I have already said that I had hat for tea, sorry I did'nt take photos!!!!


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

i posted the first thread, having read about the court case ...as its good to read about bad pet shops being taken to court as so many get away with neglect 

obviously you have had the convictions quoshed which for you and your family is great .....but hopefully any pet shops that do neglect may improve the care they give animals if they think that prosocutions will and do happen 

well done for clearing your names ...


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

I am very disappointed with the amount of replies to this post. 675 people have read it and only 21 replies. Its obvious from the amount of replies to the original thread 239 that people love it when they think someone is guilty, they love reading all the nasty comments etc.
Now when Lauren shows you that she is innocent of all charges (except blocking a fire exit- which she never denied) hardly anyone wants to congratulate her and Craig.
Incidently I am also disappointed with the write up in the gazette, they are still coming across as if they think it should not have been quoshed, I'm sure there was no need to keep going on about the original charges. A lot of what was said by Lauren and Craig was not even published (again the paper printing what they like) obviously being vindicated isn't half as exciting as being found guilty.
There are still quite a few people who need to post on here who made very nasty comments against the couple.
*Stephanie191* -you can now officially *SHUT UP *talking a load of s***e and get back to your local rep shop.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

Congratulations to you both, i wish you all the best for the future:2thumb:


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## diverfi (Jun 23, 2008)

Congratulations to you both. I knew nothing of the original thread and tbh try to avoid the contentious stuff anyway, as a lot of people get rather carried away by their own opinions. Sometimes it feels like arguing with the pope that God doesn't exist; you just won't win!
You must have been through absolute hell, without the additional burden of nasty comments, so I'm really glad you have a resolution of sorts. Well done for keeping up the fight and clearing your name. All the best,
Fi.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

Congrats, its good to see that people are able to clear their name and prove people wrong, were quick to judge on here and bully, jump to conclusions etc without looking at the bigger picture or the story from the people concerned, it happens alot on here.


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## Tazer (Aug 10, 2009)

Congratulations on clearing your names, and good luck for the future.

I hope those people who slagged you off, now have the courage to publically admit they were wrong.


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## DRAGONLOVER1981 (Jul 7, 2009)

congratulations on clearing your names and i wish you both all the best in the future whatever you decide to do and good luck on getting compensation.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

You must be very happy your names were cleared on the charges that they were cleared on. I hadnt noticed this post before today. I will say the same as I did in the other thread.

I did not see the shop.. therefore cannot make a true judgement. I heard accounts of the shop being dreadful and accounts of it being fine.. and also ones of it being somewhere inbetween. This was from people who had visited the actual shop in question and had seen it over the time it was open. |With such varied accounts making a decision is almost impossible. The law makes mistakes.. it allows guilty people to walk free.. either in the first instance or on appeals however it also convicts others guilty when they are innocent. I never heard the trial, I never saw the shop or house or how the animals were kept. Everyones standards of animal keeping are different. I know what mine are. So it is hard for me to say that the shop is one in which I would have felt comfortable or uncomfortable. What some people think is acceptable others think is dreadful. This is of course a possible reason why there was many mixed reactions. However not being able to SEE the shop myself, I wont ever be able to fully decide if personally it was a shop of adequate care , cleanliness and husbandry.

However the difference between standards does not mean something is illegal or against the law. Actually breaking the law takes a HELL of a lot of mis-care and extreme poor husbandry in reptile keeping. However there are many shops operating within the law I would not frequent. Also there are many excelent reptile shops and we all have our differences so I guess it comes down to personal standard as I said earlier.

Well done on the appeal. If you do open another shop I imagine it will be this time of a very high standard..since people will possibly know the background of what has went before. This degree of pressure may be unfair however it can only make you excellent keepers in the future which is good for you AND the animals ( oh and of course the buyers in said shoppy).

A win/ win situation.

( on a side note will your names now be added back onto the rhac shack website .. since they were removed after your conviction..??)


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## Tillies reptile rescue (Aug 22, 2009)

Well done on clearing your name. 
We work with the local council and can honestly say they dont have a clue when it comes to Herps (which is why our local council has people who know about the care of reptiles go with them on such cases). 
I have only just seen the thread and it is sad alot of people jumped on the bandwagon. 
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, I can only imagine how much stress you have been through trying to get this matter sorted.


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

I never saw the original thread but having met Lauren on numerous occassions I find it very difficult to think that she would ever treat any animal badly. Pet shops can't be perfect, they have animals in them which make a mess! as for that artical saying about animal food and stuff on the floor in your house, you should see the mess my parrot makes in one day lol! anyway congrats on winning your appeal!


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## Darklas (Mar 25, 2009)

sarasin said:


> I am very disappointed with the amount of replies to this post. 675 people have read it and only 21 replies. Its obvious from the amount of replies to the original thread 239 that people love it when they think someone is guilty, they love reading all the nasty comments etc.


I wasn't going to reply, and I may get flamed for this. But maybe the reason there are so many reads and less replies is that they feel she simply 'got away with it'. 

I congradulate you on your successful appeal. It must have been a horrible thing to go through, especially for your reputation as animal keepers. And I am sure you did do your best caring for the animals you had. 


But I find it hard to believe there could have been so many charges without something being very wrong in the first place. I worked in a pet shop for years and things go wrong all the time, but in the 15 years it's been open and running nothing like this ever happened and I don't think it ever would. Because the owner runs a tight ship, everything is cleaned every morning and checked on several times a day. 
There was no excuse for things being found dead - for animals being without water etc. 
I never even read the original thread until now so I don't know how much I may have missed, but thats my understanding of it.


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## jenren321 (May 8, 2008)

i would like to say congrads on your appeal :2thumb:

i never read the original thread way back when...... but today i have taken the time to read 15 pages of it and although i have no opion, by the time i got to page 15 i saw the usual witch hunt and gave up reading it to be honest.

i would like to say good luck in what ever you decide to do in the future, and hope you get some sort of justice for everything you have been through, if you decide to go down that road.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks to everyone has has offered their congratulations it means a lot to us.

Sparkle - I have no idea whether or not I am getting involved with Rhac-shack because as mentioned a number of times in the old threads it is actually my mams name for her Rhac keeping and excess stock, although I did help her out on occassion the animals all belong to my mam. I may have some Rhacs at my house and in that case I may either add my name to the Rhac shack or decide not to.

Darklas 


> But I find it hard to believe there could have been so many charges without something being very wrong in the first place. I worked in a pet shop for years and things go wrong all the time, but in the 15 years it's been open and running nothing like this ever happened and I don't think it ever would. Because the owner runs a tight ship, everything is cleaned every morning and checked on several times a day.
> There was no excuse for things being found dead - for animals being without water etc.
> I never even read the original thread until now so I don't know how much I may have missed, but thats my understanding of it.


There were so many charges in the first place because the council thought if they flung as much mud as possible some of of it would stick - they even charged us with breaching the design of a rabbit run even though them themselves licenced it in the very same condition only 9 months earlier!!! A very large majority of what they claimed had no photographs to attempt to back it up only the 'testomonies' of the council all of which conflicted with each other on a number of points. I have worked in pet stores since I was 16 and nothing like that had happened to me either until this. We had not one complaint from the public the whole time we were open and we even had members of the RSPCA come into our shop for advice!!! All animals in the shop were fed and watered no less than 3 times daily but when the raid happened we were prevented going to the shop to see to any of the animals and it was many hours after the raid on the house that we were allowed to go to the shop and by that time waters and foods in SOME of the enclosures had ran out - bear in mind we were not convicted in the first place of ANY animal in the shop only breach of licence conditions all of which were overturned bar the blocking of the fire exit which we admitted. The animals which we were initially found guilty of were at home and we were raided first thing on a morning when we hadnt gotten round to feed and water any animals and again we were prevented doing so by police until mid-day - again only SOME of the food and waters had ran out and that includes the animals we were initially found guilty of. The vet for the council only actually physically examined 2 of the animals we were charged with out of th 18 and just 'assumed' we had neglected the other. Her examinations were discredited in court as she hadnt looked at everything and again assumed things wrongly.
The fact that animals were found dead has no relevance if they are found in a freezer - if you read my explanation for this on my first post on here you will see why. Also the fact the council refused to do autopsies speaks volumes. 
I hope I have clarified a few points for you? The fact a lot of people think no smoke without fire I can understand but believe me the only fire involved here was the fact our house was a mess and we were convicted the first time based on that. The judge at the magistrates was of the opinion that we couldnt look after our housework therefore we couldnt look after our animals - does that mean if our house had been clean we wouldnt have been found guilty??? Food for thought there I think.

Also a quick point for those for you who are skeptical - our defence vet who gave evidence to the courts on our behalf was an extremely experienced and a well respected reptile vet who also does many prosecutions fro the RSPCA - do you really think a vet of that experience and high standard would support us through something like this? Bear in mind they saw all the photographs and evidence before the courts and still maintained we were innocent and stood up in court possibly risking their own reputation in doing so.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

I remember the first thread! a while back now though, but i still remember it. As sparkle has said i cant comment on anything as i havent seen your shop your home etc etc etc
But im glad you have been cleared, and im so so so sorry you have lost so many animals.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

I dont know you and ive never been in your shop being miles away but have to say if that gecko pic was from the shop and it was on sale then it was plain wrong on your part as it was clearly very very ill. 
I wont say well done on beating the law on this one as i do not have enough fact and first hand expeince of yous but ive seen some truly shit hole shops avoid being taken as fare as you guys and they where worse then the pics seem to show. Prehaps they should be getting in touch for some contact numbers just in case.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

blood and guts said:


> I dont know you and ive never been in your shop being miles away but have to say if that gecko pic was from the shop and it was on sale then it was plain wrong on your part as it was clearly very very ill.
> I wont say well done on beating the law on this one as i do not have enough fact and first hand expeince of yous but ive seen some truly shit hole shops avoid being taken as fare as you guys and they where worse then the pics seem to show. Prehaps they should be getting in touch for some contact numbers just in case.


 
You are commenting on something which you have no background on. I took in that gecko along with some others as rescues which were in far worse state when I took them in. The were checked out by a vet and treated accordingly. So yes it HAD been ill and was actually on the path to recovery. They were NOT on sale in the shop and were labeled as NOT FOR SALE UNDER TREATMENT. So before you make judgements try and find out a bit of background before stringing us up like the rest of them did on the last thread. This is a major problem that we had to overcome with the courts - that we took in quite a number of rescue animals some of which needed and received veterinary treatment. We in effect we persecuted for taking in rescues whereas if we hadnt and got them back to health they would have almost certainly died. It really annoys me when people judge things on face value - I have learnt the hard way that unfortunately that can and does happen and people often dont want to hear the truth as they would rather slag you off than hear that your actually doing something good for the animal. In future I suggest you ask questions first before making assumptions.


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## Utter Nutter (Aug 30, 2009)

I do not know the original 'story' nor do I care for 'gossip' but I would like to offer my best wishes for you and your family moving forward. It must have been a very traumatic time for you all. I am so glad that you have stuck together in your fight for truth. So many familes end up in divorce and seperation when dealing with so much stress. At least you have still got each other, a small consolation when you seem to have lost so much. 
The past is the past, now you just have to pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off and start all over again. This time you will be better stronger people.

Best of luck


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Utter nutter thank you for your post. It is true that a lot of relationships would crumble under the massive pressure we have been under. We have been blessed with an amazing son who is 2 1/2 now who has been the glue that has held us together. He has never really known his 'true' parents as we have been constantly stressed and finally we can begin to live our lives as normal happy parents now.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

It was a fare point that i agree i could have put better and i thankyou for your replie. It does bring up a effical dilema though for the future. First off is it right to have sick under treatment animals on show? and the gecko in the pic looked like a crypto type case witch is very very contagius and secondly should shops even be taking in rescues where theres a chance of spreading problems. But thats best left for another thread as a purly effical discussion if this forum is capabal of that. Theres some lessons other shops could learn from this, your case while sad for your selves could help improve standards across the trade witch is some thing we should all work towards.

Im only on one side and thats the animals, some times that upsets peoples feelings or ego but i wont loose sleep on that.

You won the day that does not mean on a public forum every one has to say well done or be happy for you, i still dont know enough to make a judgment one way or the other. 

I will end in saying however theres many many shops that make what i see of yours in the pics look beyond fantastic, why are they still getting away with being so bad. Shows how great uk justice is becoming.

At least you can now put this behind yous and move on and enjoy being parents.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Just a quick point on the rescue leo front. Yes in hindsight we probably should not have taken in rescues but often its extremely hard not to when confronted with the owner of them saying they would rather leave them to die than spend money on vet treatment. It put me in an awful position - did I tell them oh well theres nothing i can do or take them off them and make sure they got vet treatment? I chose the latter and I still stand by the desicion I made as I know I did the right thing for the animals. Animals under treatment on display was our desiscion and it showed the public that we did give animals treatment when needed and animals can and do get ill. I dont see a problem if you label the vivs accordingly, use specific vivs for that purpose and if the correct hygiene procedures are used. We never had a single complaint from a member of the public regarding these leos or in fact any other animals. 
Anyway that was the way we did it and I know other shops may have different methods and procedures with dealing with rescues and animals under treatment and I cant speak for them.
Anyway I think I have answered your post now and explained why it was so.

Just on a different note - any mods reading this can I please be reinstated to the classifieds again now - I have PMd T-bo but had no reply so I dont know whether he got my message or not. I know the reason I was banned was due to the old convictions but now as all of the animals ones have been quashed I would like to think there is absolutely no reason I should still be banned. If I am still banned then I want a full explaination as to why.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

uroplatus said:


> Thanks to everyone has has offered their congratulations it means a lot to us.
> 
> Sparkle - I have no idea whether or not I am getting involved with Rhac-shack because as mentioned a number of times in the old threads it is actually my mams name for her Rhac keeping and excess stock, although I did help her out on occassion the animals all belong to my mam. I may have some Rhacs at my house and in that case I may either add my name to the Rhac shack or decide not to.
> 
> .


 
AHH ok... well if you do heres hoping its successful


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

CONGRATULATIONS i never doubted you's for a second and i genuinely hope you can now move forward take a big breath and start to have a little happiness again.I know just how hard this has been for you Lauren and Craig and your mum .I hope peeps are big and bold enough to apologise.
just one more thing i feel like this for you yaaaaaaaaaaaaay :grouphug:


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## JohnC (Feb 12, 2006)

CONGRATULATIONS i never doubted you's for a second and i genuinely hope you can now move forward take a big breath and start to have a little happiness again.I know just how hard this has been for you Lauren and Craig and your mum .I hope peeps are big and bold enough to apologise.
just one more thing i feel like this for you yaaaaaaaaaaaaay :grouphug:

This is exactly how I feel too.


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## amylovesreptiles (Apr 22, 2009)

dont know you's but, congratulations, it must of been hard :/ 
anyway, glad alls well now


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks very much guys - John I know you never doubted us. You have been very supportive of us all the way through this and we would have found it it much harder if you and others hadnt believed i us. I have lost friends through this and that has been hard but at least I know who my true friends are.
Thanks again all who sent congratulations!


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## bassman (Oct 9, 2008)

just seen this 
well done lauren on clearing your name  cannot imagine what its been like,i worked with lauren for years and she always put the animals 1st.
well done 
john

as a post note shops often have to keep animal carrcases in the freezer as a way of claiming credit most wholesalers require proof for credit


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

uroplatus said:


> Thanks very much guys - John I know you never doubted us. You have been very supportive of us all the way through this and we would have found it it much harder if you and others hadnt believed i us. I have lost friends through this and that has been hard but at least I know who my true friends are.
> Thanks again all who sent congratulations!


 
never a truer word spoken 

dont know you but have read the hell you have been through 

congratulations on clearing your name 

Its very true going through a shizer time you definately find out who your true friends are 

Good luck with the future :2thumb:


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Suez - I'm really sorry I didnt see you post above John Cs post - so thank you very much for your kind words and support.
Bassman (John) - thanks very much for coming on here and giving your support as well.
EmmaJ - thank you - its so difficult to go through something like this and still believe in yourself especially whenpeople who dont know the truth are sooting you down constantly. 
Luckly I have had amazing support and help from family and friends otherwise I dont think I would have gotten through it at all.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

uroplatus said:


> Suez - I'm really sorry I didnt see you post above John Cs post - so thank you very much for your kind words and support.
> Bassman (John) - thanks very much for coming on here and giving your support as well.
> EmmaJ - thank you - its so difficult to go through something like this and still believe in yourself especially whenpeople who dont know the truth are sooting you down constantly.
> Luckly I have had amazing support and help from family and friends otherwise I dont think I would have gotten through it at all.


 
I know that all too well hun 

just glad you have come out of the other end strong


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

uroplatus said:


> all.


(just quoted a little bit so the thread isn't overly padded with quotes)

Since this has pretty much ruined your life for quite a while now and has been overturned, are you able to claim for damages from the council? I mean there's the loss of business, the loss of your personal collection(yes it's sad to put a price on owning say a snake for 15 years but the fact is when it comes to claims the cost of every animal along with emotional damage must be calculated), the loss of reputation etc? I mean your partner(if I have this the right way around and your female) said he has received abuse on the street for this? I imagine you might have gotten hate mail. 

Surely the council owes you a hell of a lot more then a "...yeah sorry about that.:crazy:". I mean hell a women who hurt her fingers typing when she was a typist got millions(which is ridiculous IMO), a fat slob who burns their blubber hand on a coffee in McDonalds gets a huge lump sum, you deserve at the very least loss of profits from your business, cost of all animals taken away and then some kind of compensation for any legal fees you've had, time wasted and emotional damage.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

joeyboy said:


> Since this has pretty much ruined your life for quite a while now and has been overturned, are you able to claim for damages from the council? I mean there's the loss of business, the loss of your personal collection(yes it's sad to put a price on owning say a snake for 15 years but the fact is when it comes to claims the cost of every animal along with emotional damage must be calculated), the loss of reputation etc? I mean your partner(if I have this the right way around and your female) said he has received abuse on the street for this? I imagine you might have gotten hate mail.
> 
> Surely the council owes you a hell of a lot more then a "...yeah sorry about that.:crazy:". I mean hell a women who hurt her fingers typing when she was a typist got millions(which is ridiculous IMO), a fat slob who burns their blubber hand on a coffee in McDonalds gets a huge lump sum, you deserve at the very least loss of profits from your business, cost of all animals taken away and then some kind of compensation for any legal fees you've had, time wasted and emotional damage.


We will be taking the council for compensation for loss of earnings, loss of about £30,000 worth of animals and also other things as well which I cant really go into until I have spoken to my solicitor. It is very difficult for us to put a price on pets - the shop stock is much easier as we were not attached to those animals but our personal pets are much harder.
You did get it right I am female and yes my partner is male - he has received abusive comments and threats. I actually didnt leave the house for a long while after the conviction as I was afraid for my safety. Luckly we didnt receive hate mail but I did here of other pet stores in the area receiving cutting from the papers from someone trying to get us banned from them. 
Thanks for your post I will keep everyone updated on our progress of sueing the council.


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## dingy (Apr 4, 2006)

I didn't get involved in the original thread as I did not know the true circumstances and had no desire to 'jump on the bandwagon'. I will say it's very disappointing that there are very few apologies and even more that there are some still thinking 'no smoke without fire'. Those people have obviously been lucky enough not to have had a problem, if they had they would know that truth plays a very small part in things.

I would like to congratulate you all on a deserved outcome and I hope you can finally put this behind you and pick up your lives. Many many congratulations.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks very much for your post Dingy its much appreciated. People dont like to admit when they got something wrong so to be honest I asked for apologies but didnt expect any. I am just happy to be able to get on with my life now and hopefully get back to some normality now.


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## krazykayaker (May 28, 2008)

Hello
I read the posts when they came up but not knowing enough either way never commented - I did however mention it to Michael and he thought it was complete rubbish and never believed you were guilty.

I hope that brings you some comfort - he always had faith in and its a shame I cannot let him know the outcome but I will tell Jean x


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks Rachael. I wish Michael would have been around to hear the news too. I know he believed in us all the way through it and its such a shame he never found out the outcome. If you could let Jean know I'm sure she would be pleased for us also.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

sparkle said:


> You must be very happy your names were cleared on the charges that they were cleared on. I hadnt noticed this post before today. I will say the same as I did in the other thread.
> 
> I did not see the shop.. therefore cannot make a true judgement. I heard accounts of the shop being dreadful and accounts of it being fine.. and also ones of it being somewhere inbetween. This was from people who had visited the actual shop in question and had seen it over the time it was open. |With such varied accounts making a decision is almost impossible. The law makes mistakes.. it allows guilty people to walk free.. either in the first instance or on appeals however it also convicts others guilty when they are innocent. I never heard the trial, I never saw the shop or house or how the animals were kept. Everyones standards of animal keeping are different. I know what mine are. So it is hard for me to say that the shop is one in which I would have felt comfortable or uncomfortable. What some people think is acceptable others think is dreadful. This is of course a possible reason why there was many mixed reactions. However not being able to SEE the shop myself, I wont ever be able to fully decide if personally it was a shop of adequate care , cleanliness and husbandry.
> 
> ...


 
Anyone who works in a pet shop in any way shape and form will tell you, although animals are spot cleaned every day with fresh food water e.t.c it is impossible to tell with over 100 animals if one poos later on after the spot check, people will then say oooooo this pet shop must be bad! because this animal has not been cleaned out on site.... regardless of what people say a pet shop job is hard and it is hard to accomodate for lots of animals on a daily basis we can only strive to do our best.

and exacly many pet shops are different in the way they run things I am glad you bought this up... it is like many neighbours around you you dont all live the same way the same life style, pet shops are just the same, sometimes animals do die in petshops but i wouldnt put this down to them being neglected, snakes are usually quite hardy along with birds they are stronger than what you may think.

to the owners of the bussiness though you have my greatest sympathy, and great respect to still battle on after all this has happned.: victory:

Kindest regards dixon


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## kyledawelsh (Mar 7, 2008)

i'd never read the previous thread but glad to hear you got cleared most shops have dead in the freezer and alot of homes too 

again well done :2thumb:


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks guys for confirming what I explained initially about freezers and deads - it is common practice and in every shop I have worked or been in it is common practice to prove to suppliers when something had died bodies need to be kept. Thanks for the congratulations too :notworthy:


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## krazykayaker (May 28, 2008)

No worries I am popping over to see Jean tomorrow hopefully. I was speaking with the vet who was there for the case the other week as they have my poorly leos and she cannot believe how the case even came to court in the first place! She mentioned a few other things too (that obviously she can now the case is order) and its unbelieble there was a case against you to start with...clearly the council know nothing about reptile keeping! the idiots!

I'd sue them for everything they have!


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

sorry was logged in as mam I will post it properly now.


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks Rachael, give my love to Jean. Yes our defence vet was disgusted at how it ever came to court - as you know she normally prosecutes for the RSPCA so is very familiar with animal court cases and couldnt understand how it have gotten as far as the courts with the lack of evidence against us. Anyway thank god the judges at the crown court actually understood the law and we got our justice in the end.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

uroplatus said:


> Thanks Rachael, give my love to Jean. Yes our defence vet was disgusted at how it ever came to court - as you know she normally prosecutes for the RSPCA so is very familiar with animal court cases and couldnt understand how it have gotten as far as the courts with the lack of evidence against us. Anyway thank god the judges at the crown court actually understood the law and we got our justice in the end.



aye people always think "if you've done nothing wrong there's nothing to worry about" when new policies are brought in, or "yeah everyone in jail is obviously going to say their innocent, but none are really lol.", but the thing is some are innocent.

Any word on possible compensation for damages?


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## krazykayaker (May 28, 2008)

Been to see Jean today and she is very happy - she said Michael was upset at the news when you were found guilty and never believed it! Jean wasn't having a good day as the hospital had rang her at 1am for a kidney for Michael... didn't flag up he died 3 months ago. Your news cheered her up a little


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Joeyboy - no news yet but these things take time.

Rachael - I'm really pleased my news cheered Jean up. I know the last time I saw Michael he was upset for us but I know he is up there somewhere pleased for us. I cant believe the hospital rang Jean with an offer of a kidney for Michael, poor Jean must have been so upset.


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## sarasin (Dec 8, 2007)

As Laurens mam I just wanted to thank everyone who has posted on this thread to congratulate her on winning her appeal :notworthy:


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## wacky69 (Apr 8, 2008)

woohoo!! just noticed this thread and we are over the moon for you's. We never doubted you for one second as we know you and also know jaqui would not defend you if what the council said was true.

Hope ya sue the arse out of them hun! xxxxx


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

*congratulations, this is first i've heard about this as i didn't see the original thread, must have been a nightmare for you!!!*

*Glad the truth has come out for you, a lot of people owe you a apology, i hope you get them*

*xx Sarah xx*


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks very much guys - it means a lot to have the lovely comments and congratulations.


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## Nic B-C (Dec 4, 2008)

Sadly its not a case of winning an appeal as you will always been known as the people who ran that shit pet shop, and to be honest in the area you live im suprised you havent had a lynch mob....cos folks this is the harsh reality of it all.

Ive been in a very similar position with the courts a few years ago and got stuffed in Magistrates court only for it to be laughed out at appeal in Crown Court showing the total lack of knowledge of law or capability of sentencing in a magistrates!

I also had a case a few years before this where a minor car accident ended up in Crown Court as I was up for very serious charges of dangerous driving etc.

Unfortunately for me a case which shouldnt have even got to court int he first place ended up in a major court (some 2 years plus after the incident and being suspended from work) To make matters worse a very major child murder case was in the next court and th hury were out for deliberation. This meant the National paper and I mean all of them had journalists in a courthouse unable to report so flooded into my case just as prosection was painting this ugly picture of me as a monster.

Subsequently I had headlines all over the national papers let alone the local ones with ridiculous headlines.

However when I was basically cleared of everything they didnt report a thing which i subsequently took them to the press board and won a case against the lot for retractions although most were very begrudging and still went on about me being found guilty of criminal damage by virtue of an accident. A decision the judge was perplexed by and gave me a 12 month unconditional discharge.

This ruined my teaching career and pretty much ruined my personal life to boot. im still recovering now so i know exactly hoiw lauren and family are feeling now and will be for years to come. thankfuly laurens relationship has survived and they have a wonderful son as testament to this!


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## Becky Wheeler (Jun 15, 2006)

Congrats on winning the appeal both of you! :2thumb:

No one should slate or judge anyone before the facts and evidence is given in court!.

Now you can finally move on but there is going to be a long road ahead of you. All I can say is just take each day as it comes and be strong.

Good luck hunnies xx


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## uroplatus (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks guys - it is true that this will always play a major part in my life even now. I have lost so much confidence in myself due to the prosecution, it will take a long time before that ever comes back. Luckly it hasnt spoiled my passion for animals and I am determined to persue a career in animals no matter what it takes.


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