# American green treefrogs & mixing species



## OrangeMoon (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi,
I've got American green treefrogs and was just wondering what other species (if any) would be compatible with them? I've heard they can be put in with anoles, but are there any other frog species they could live happily with? :hmm:


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## elrond (Dec 18, 2007)

this is a hot topic and its totaly up to you what you do, look back on some past thread theres plenty, i never mix.


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## cheddarsox (May 11, 2008)

american grey tree frogs would go...if you are into mixing species. Make sure sizes are the same. Their care and climate are very similar.


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## 7109 (Jan 6, 2008)

people bloody never learn!


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Mixing species is a very hard thing to to. You have to make sure you have a huge enclosure where each animals can have there own spaces, as well as a climate avaialble for all species to be happy. You also have to be observent of fighting etc, and have spare tanks available if fightinh brakes out. Also, if dealing with WC species you have to be very very careful of introducing parasites to the existing residents of the tank. 

The only animals i've heard of that have been succesfully kept with american green tree frogs are, american grey tree frogs and green anoles. But you have to make sure you can provide the right envoment for all the animals concerned. 

Jay


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

DO NOT MIX!
how many threads does the same statment need to be put on before people learn.


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## OrangeMoon (Nov 29, 2007)

knighty said:


> DO NOT MIX!
> how many threads does the same statment need to be put on before people learn.


 
Hey - I've had a look and so far haven't come across ANY threads in the amphibians section about mixing, and most people aren't going to trawl through all the pages to find one. 
It's a fair question, and if you don't ask you won't know, right? 
Sounds like the answer is no then?


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## elrond (Dec 18, 2007)

sorry orangemoon if we sound a bit harsh, but we have been asked many many times and there a tonnes off posts on this, its a vvv hot topic.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

sorry to be harsh its just as elrond said we have been asked this many times.

if you want to find a topic rather than going through page by page there is a search facility on the forum, just go into the area it concerns, in this case amphibians, and above the first thread on the top right hand side it says search, just click on it and input what it is you are looking for and it will bring up all relevent threads. hope this helps.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

Green anoles would be fine, as would smaller terrestrial lizards, salamanders etc.

Probably best to steer clear of snakes in a mixed viv, though I did keep Ringneck snakes in a community viv with Tree Frogs without problems. You won't find many Ringnecks for sale nowadays though.

The same rules apply when mixing herps in community vivs as with mixing aquarium fish. Don't take any notice of people who say NO MIXING - EVER. This is usually based on chinese whispers around hobbyists forums, rather than direct experience.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

with the exception of a few newts and some aquatic snails ive never mixed speices but i dont see the big deal of putting 2 speices from the same area together i mean if they mingle in the wild why not at home. ok naturally common sense applies, dont put pred and prey or overly aggressive species together but say 2 frogs from the same range that are about the same size and have the same needs, i cant see the problem.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

I've had treefrogs in with salamanders, albeit not Hyla species, without problems.

White's with Tiger salamanders
Denny's (Polypedates spp) in with Fire salamanders (Fire sals bred for many years)


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## Magners (Mar 30, 2008)

Despite the fact that I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this by someone...

Peacock treefrogs, firebellied toads, salamanders, grey treefrogs are all ones I've seen kept with US green treefrogs. Don't know how good or bad this may be, but I've seen them living peacefully with no problems.

Just make sure they're all roughly the same size and you have plenty of space and you quarantine each new frog you get for a couple of weeks that wasn't originally with the first frog you brought just to make sure that they are not ill or have anything apparent that could be passed on to others in your tank.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

SaintMeg said:


> Despite the fact that I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this by someone...
> 
> Peacock treefrogs, firebellied toads, salamanders, grey treefrogs are all ones I've seen kept with US green treefrogs. Don't know how good or bad this may be, but I've seen them living peacefully with no problems.
> 
> Just make sure they're all roughly the same size and you have plenty of space and you quarantine each new frog you get for a couple of weeks that wasn't originally with the first frog you brought just to make sure that they are not ill or have anything apparent that could be passed on to others in your tank.


Glad to see someone else speaking from experience rather than conjecture!


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## OrangeMoon (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi guys, thanks for all your help : victory: I don't think I will mix anything with my treefrogs... Just that I work in a pet shop and someone came in the other day who has American Greens and asked what can go with them, so I was curious!
Thanks for the tip Knighty, I will do that!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Matt Harris said:


> Don't take any notice of people who say NO MIXING - EVER. This is usually based on chinese whispers around hobbyists forums, rather than direct experience.



well im sorry to dissapoint you MAT but my answer comes from extensive reading, studying my own collection, and listening to what i have been told by some very experienced keepers.

lizards and frogs is not a good shout at all and to give that as your "good advice" is realy poor as this could cause alot of stress to tree frogs, and as all us true amphibian keepers know, a stressed frog leads very quickly to an unhealthy frog. 

there are possible mixes but mixing is something for the experts, and people should not just go around saying "yeah doit" "dont listen to them", as that is worse advice than saying not to. if you have done the mixes you say then you will know who hard it can be and the many different things that have to be looked out for, and this is deffinately not the kind of advice that should be given to people that are new to amphibians. if a mix is to be done then both species need to be studyed seperatly first so that there is a good amount of background knowledge on each individual, and the species on a hole.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

While I would never mix snakes and have only rarely mixed lizards (with varying results, so again not really recommended), I have kept American Green Tree Frogs and Gray Tree Frogs together for years with no problems whatsoever. In general I would say that a pair of each should be fine enough in a 24 x 15 x 24" setup. Any more and it will become difficult to make sure everyone is eating!

Certainly mixing of species is never to be taken lightly and must be well researched, but with two tough, hearty species like this that thrive in captive conditions and come from similar/ same habitats, it is definitely possible.

Something to look out for: you often see Oriental Fire-Bellies mixed in with other species. Don't be fooled, it's a bad idea. Not only are they poisonous and over time will contaminate the water source and possibly harm other frogs (and anything else, fish included) they are aggressive eaters and will take on anything their own size. Though they won't succeed they can still engulf limbs and scare the hell out of a tree frog...

If you can get hold of them maybe baby leopard frogs or edible frogs can live alongside tree frogs. Again, be careful as Edible frogs in particular are very, VERY voracious. However, I've kept small Spanish Marsh Frogs (_Rana_ _perezi_) with European tree frogs and they coexist well as long as you remove the ranids when they start to outgrow the tree frogs!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

yes greens and greys are one of the possibilitys, coming from the same location, the only real difference in them being colouration, however i still do not think that advising people to mix is a good idea.

i am glad some one else mentioned about the fire bellied toads as i thought i may be the only one thinking that some of the mixes people on here have done are very wrong.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I once tried keeping Oriental Fire-Bellied toads with White Cloud Mountain minnows (the "indestructible" fish). They all died after just a few days. And I'm no novice to keeping fish either. My only conclusion - Fire-Belly poisoning.

I have never tried to mix anoles or other lizards with frogs but to be honest it doesn't sound like a good idea. I imagine a big Green or Brown anole would be quite capable of attacking a tree frog, and similarly a large Green tree frog could easily jump at a small anole.

Then there's the problem of amphibian skin secretions. I'm sure it is possible but I wouldn't try it myself.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Maybe if you have a relatively dry, mossy-style frog terrarium small american forest skinks? They like slightly damper (not wet!) conditions and some stay small enough to not bother frogs.

Still not something I would advocate, though.


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## cheddarsox (May 11, 2008)

spend_day said:


> with the exception of a few newts and some aquatic snails ive never mixed speices but i dont see the big deal of putting 2 speices from the same area together i mean if they mingle in the wild why not at home. ok naturally common sense applies, dont put pred and prey or overly aggressive species together but say 2 frogs from the same range that are about the same size and have the same needs, i cant see the problem.


Yes, people do it with fish all the time, but get very purist when it comes to amphibians.

Though I can see some reasons NOT to...different sources, possibility of spreading disease, etc. There is no absolute reason it can't work. If the species are from the same place (and greens and greys are, I happen to live in the area they are native to), eat the same food, etc.

If people are willing to keep more than one individual together (after proper quarantine please) then why not two species so similar?

however, frogs, of all kinds are cannibals, and in close quarters...accidents can happen. It is a risk one must consider.


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## cheddarsox (May 11, 2008)

Matt Harris said:


> I've had treefrogs in with salamanders, albeit not Hyla species, without problems.
> 
> White's with Tiger salamanders
> Denny's (Polypedates spp) in with Fire salamanders (Fire sals bred for many years)


I tried that...ended up with a really fat happy tiger...oh well. Years later a bullfrog got even by eating a tiger larvae that was a full four inches longer than the frog. I kid you not. It sat with the larvae's back end hanging out of it's mouth until it digested the head then swallowed the rest. A rather long process but that bullfrog meant to have it.

I don't mix anymore...can't take the heartache


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

cheddarsox said:


> Yes, people do it with fish all the time, but get very purist when it comes to amphibians.
> 
> Though I can see some reasons NOT to...different sources, possibility of spreading disease, etc. There is no absolute reason it can't work. If the species are from the same place (and greens and greys are, I happen to live in the area they are native to), eat the same food, etc.
> 
> ...


yeah quarantine is important i forgot to mention that.

many of these risks are the same when bring any 2 frog together same species or not. its nice to see someone with a similar point of veiw. :2thumb:

shows im not totally mental lol


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

cheddarsox said:


> I tried that...ended up with a really fat happy tiger...oh well. Years later a bullfrog got even by eating a tiger larvae that was a full four inches longer than the frog. I kid you not. It sat with the larvae's back end hanging out of it's mouth until it digested the head then swallowed the rest. A rather long process but that bullfrog meant to have it.
> 
> I don't mix anymore...can't take the heartache


Sorry to hear about that.

I should point out that these were adult tiger sals with adult wtfs, so no danger of one eating the other. Besides, the sals lived on the gound and the treefrogs lived in the, er, trees.


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

Yesterday introduced a beautiful gray with our 2 US Greens. The gray was the same size and all seem well until this morning...just the 2 greens left. Am devestated - it's not the cost or the time to get the gray (2 hour round trip), it's the needless suffering that may have taken place. Saying that my son may have taken it out without telling me and it jumped to freedom! Also the greens are happily feeding this morning.


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

totally up to you if you want to then go ahead. i've mixed green treefrogs with greay and green anoles. up to you. people say don't mix. but what happens in the wild you don't see a treefrog hop near an anole then go oh no better not - not too sure what diseases you may have. better not chance it!! no they hop on to the anole and try it doggy style!!


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

ooohhh im surprised to see how well people are handling this topic, ive spoken to people that have ripped hair out over the possibility of mixing species.
there is only one thing i will say on it and that is Do not mix species that are not from the same region! most amphibians from the same area will be better able to better tolerate toxins produced from each other. frogs should be of similar size otherwise they will cannibalise each other make sure you have a good ized viv so they can all have their own space and there will be little food competition. Do not, for instance, introduce a frog from africa to your american green TF because there will be tears before bedtime.
remember to quarantine any new frog before introduction for at least 4 weeks (i advocate 6 weeks but most people think 4 weeks is adequate).


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## matt020593 (Oct 10, 2006)

My Green Anoles and GTFs live perfectly fine together. Infact they barely even notice each other lol.
I have also heard of Rough Green snakes being mixed with GTFs and Anoles fine.
Giant African millies have apparently been kept with them. 
Some people keep FBTs with them too.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

matt020593 said:


> My Green Anoles and GTFs live perfectly fine together. Infact they barely even notice each other lol.
> I have also heard of Rough Green snakes being mixed with GTFs and Anoles fine.
> Giant African millies have apparently been kept with them.
> Some people keep FBTs with them too.


as already said ftb's should not be mixed with other species as they can be quiet toxic. as for anoles there is a thread on here were an anole was living with a toad fine, until now when the problems have started. i know that some of these do co-exist in the wild, but they have a lot more space to run/hop/climb to when they want to escape.


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## matt020593 (Oct 10, 2006)

Yeah I wouldn't keep FBTs with anything else.


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

ok so ive got a mixed viv of anoles and green tree fogs.the frogs are nocturnal and u wont see them much in the day so they stay out of each others way.
its a big 5/2/2fter with plenty of hidey holes.both are doing fine.
fat frogs and my anoles have just given me 2 babys and aload more eggs.
DONT put any type of salamander in as there skins contain slight poison to frogs.

ive never had a hint of a problem,never even seen them near each other but its a big viv and
these are the only species i would consider doing it with.altho i have been told greens and greys do fine together


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i think the reason you have had no problems is because of the amount of space. most people try these mixes in exo terras (or simalar) so there is not enough "escape" space to avoid each other.


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

knighty said:


> i think the reason you have had no problems is because of the amount of space. most people try these mixes in exo terras (or simalar) so there is not enough "escape" space to avoid each other.


I'm afraid i'm one of those who have an exo terra and think you have hit the nail on the head. As usual the worrying thing is that some of the "specialist" suppliers/shops seemed to think it would have been fine. with retrospect, they were the same ones who said it would have been ok to mix the US greens with our FBTs!!!! Guess I should have known! Just need to sneak in another unit for Grays - although my son is itching for a fantasy horned!


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

I can't believe it. Got home from work this evening to find that we only have one US Green left......now to be named Hannibal! Wouldn't mind, but they have been having their quota of crickets. May be I should put in some farva beans and a little chianti. Seriously upset by this. At least the FBTs don't do this!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

i was told the dumpy frog and red eyed tree frogs could be housed together. was really excited as i want both these sp, but only have room for one tank. wont be doing that now after reading this


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

Matt Harris said:


> Green anoles would be fine, as would smaller terrestrial lizards, salamanders etc.
> 
> Probably best to steer clear of snakes in a mixed viv, though I did keep Ringneck snakes in a community viv with Tree Frogs without problems. You won't find many Ringnecks for sale nowadays though.
> 
> The same rules apply when mixing herps in community vivs as with mixing aquarium fish. Don't take any notice of people who say NO MIXING - EVER. This is usually based on chinese whispers around hobbyists forums, rather than direct experience.


lol here here 
ive successfully mixed green tree frogs with greys and anoles for well over 5 years. so obviously it can be done


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

BlackRose said:


> i was told the dumpy frog and red eyed tree frogs could be housed together. was really excited as i want both these sp, but only have room for one tank. wont be doing that now after reading this


chester zoo have an enclosure with red eyes and whites


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

mrguillemot said:


> I can't believe it. Got home from work this evening to find that we only have one US Green left......now to be named Hannibal! Wouldn't mind, but they have been having their quota of crickets. May be I should put in some farva beans and a little chianti. Seriously upset by this. At least the FBTs don't do this!


 
are you sure they aren't getting throught the air vent? if they're the same size they won't be able to eat each other.


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

the only small gaps are where the cables enter and that has been blocked off by the coco matting. However, did have one thought. I changed the exo terra poly rockface backing to coco matting. The 2 greens used to sneak behind this into the top recess. Whilst there is plenty of foliage and bark in the terrarium to hide in/behind, i suspect that may have been battling for position in the renewed environment.
I was amazed that same size frogs can eat each other - I could understand it they were drastically different. Now I need to decide if Hannibal should just keep to himself or upgrade the exo Terra to a bigger size and try again. However all becoming a bit expensive now!!!! Thank god the BTDs behave in a civil way


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

are the frogs full grown. they can get through the smallest of gaps, such as between the glass pannels. have you covered the air vents up with mesh? my adult whites can get through a gap of about 2 cm.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

basky said:


> chester zoo have an enclosure with red eyes and whites


Really? that does not sound a very good idea to me.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

knighty said:


> Really? that does not sound a very good idea to me.


yeah i saw it a few years back. don't no if they still do, haven't been for a while.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

bloody hell, did not expect that from a zoo!
im not the biggest fan of mixing, however i am aware that some are possible and can work, but that is one i would deffinatley not put on the list of possibles!


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## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

7109 said:


> people bloody never learn!


 
:lol2:


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

you have me really worried now - but that would mean that they can get through a gap of .05cm. As for the size, they are approx 4.5cm long (at a guess) at the moment.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

if i were you i'd put a bowl of water outside the viv so if they are out they'll have somewhere to rehydrate


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Have you had the viv door open and turned away, if even only for a second, is a possibility that he could of escaped. best thing to do is what basky suggested and put out a bowl of fresh bottled water out, and try and keep the door for the room they was in closed so as to try and contain him, just in case. have you checked under all the hidey places to see if it is hiding or dead some were inside the viv?


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

basky said:


> chester zoo have an enclosure with red eyes and whites


hmmm that doesnt sound right to me, whites tree frogs can easily get big enough to cannabalise red eyes, surely they would know better.


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

knighty said:


> Have you had the viv door open and turned away, if even only for a second, is a possibility that he could of escaped. best thing to do is what basky suggested and put out a bowl of fresh bottled water out, and try and keep the door for the room they was in closed so as to try and contain him, just in case. have you checked under all the hidey places to see if it is hiding or dead some were inside the viv?


Will check again this evening just incase I missed something obvious. Do they crawl inside the bark fissures? That may have been missed - must be my old eyesight!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

if there is a gap they can fit into it is possible they will use it as a hide. i have had some disapear for a few days in amoungst the foliage and branches. being tree frogs they are normaly going to be higher up so look behind any hanging plants.


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

clearly I need a trip to Specsavers (other opticians are of course available)!. went to feed on wednesday and lo and behold the other green was back - happily feeding from hand. 
Then went into see then very early this morning (2 am) and there was the gray - happily perched on a branch looking non the worse for wear. He then went from the branch to an aquatic onyx block and promptly mergered in to it colour wise - colour transition yellow to bluey green! 
Obviously I need glasses immediately - but cannot see how I missed it. Do they bury themselves normally? as that may be the only way that I missed him.
Needless to say that we are happy they are all ok. The gray will now be known as Raspiel - having turned up unexpectedly...carries on the Hannibal theme.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

firstly glad he is back: victory: maybe the name hudini would be more suitable:lol2:

being tree frogs they should be staying higher up rather than on the floor, unless coming down to feed offcourse. if they are burrowing the only thing i can think is that they may be too hot, and are seaking to cool down in the substrate. what are the temps and humidity?


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

if he's changing colour like that it sounds like you might have a barking tree frog not a grey.
they bury them selves in the substrate when it gets too hot, wht temps are you getting in there?


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## mrguillemot (Jun 13, 2008)

habistat for heatpad behind coco matting set at 76 (ish) with middle of tank registering 22.2 - 23.5. Spraying twice a day. Didn't strike me as too hot or cold. The room they are in is north facing so does not tend to get that hot during the day. 
However the greens are rarely bright green. I have always worried that they might be a tad on the cold side, although they use all of the enclosure.


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

sound like the conditions should be fine, though i've never found a definitive statement of temperature for keeping greens at.

i keep mine between 24 and 25 in the daytime, but was considering lowering the temp slightly, because they can go brown when they're hot also.

maybe we should just hope andrew comments.


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