# Thermostats for Burmese Python



## Greenie22 (Oct 12, 2020)

Hi,
Sorry for all the posts but I just want to make sure I do my girl justice.
I have ordered a custom built enclosure and want to put in a new thermostat. I have been looking at Microclimate but I have been warned off them due to fire risks.


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## arwen_7 (Oct 21, 2009)

Do you want to elaborate on the fire risks you have found? 
I've got 4 microclimate evo's and recommend them to most folk.


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

Have the Microclimate Evo Connected 3 here (bought while on sale) and no issues, very handy to have a notification on phone from the App if temperatures do go astray, as well as to see the graphs to monitor performance.


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## Greenie22 (Oct 12, 2020)

I posted about thermostats a few months ago (didnt get much response) and I was referred to someone whose house had nearly been set on fire numerous times due to a fault with his microclimate thermostat. He sent it back to microclimate, they replaced the part and the same thing happened again. When he challenged them they suggested it was the way HE had operated it, despite being knowledgeable in the field for many years


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

The problem with most commercial thermostats, especially the basic type with just a dial for setting the target temperature is that if or when they fail they are more likely to fail locked on rather than off, so a ceramic gets driven hard and if that is in close proximity to the wooden panels in the viv then there is a risk of fire. If mats are driven constantly often the plastic laminate melts and can result in a fire. However, whilst there are documented cases of this happening, they are not common.

Modern digital types with screens like the Evo often have an alarm setting so at least you can set thresholds to alert you that there is a problem. I've yet to see a commercial reptile thermostat have a feature that in the event of detecting an error reading the sensor, or an over heat situation the output to the heater is disabled, hence why I designed and built my own


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

@Malc You can start your list of zero off with the Habistat Digital Dimming Thermostat - it has a cut out activated by the alarm for over-temperature, it cuts back in if the temperature drops again, but if activated a second time within 20 minutes, cuts power permanently until the user resets the unit.
It works too: sunshine was hitting my probes and caused it to happen a few weeks ago.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

NickN said:


> @Malc You can start your list of zero off with the Habistat Digital Dimming Thermostat - it has a cut out activated by the alarm for over-temperature, it cuts back in if the temperature drops again, but if activated a second time within 20 minutes, cuts power permanently until the user resets the unit.
> It works too: sunshine was hitting my probes and caused it to happen a few weeks ago.


I stanf corrected, however I'm guessing that's not one of the standard "analogue" type, but one of the newer electronic models that allows you to set the alarm thresholds via a screen ? - Does the alarm go off (and cut power to the heater) if the probe is detached or gets damaged (bit hard to test really if the probe is hard wired). It's nice to see manufactures finally building safeguards into these stats.... they are only 13 years behind me 😉


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

You are right, it is an electronic model with screen. But I don't know about what happens if the probe itself gets damaged, interesting question.
It's also not a cheap thermostat, retails around £75, but arguably a small price to pay for greater peace of mind when out at work all day. I like the fact it has the day/night timer function too.


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## arwen_7 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure with the evo's if either hot or cold alarm is tripped then the power is cut. So if the sensor got severed I'd assume it would report back no/low temp and trip the alarm.

Maybe worth asking them to elaborate on what happens if the sensor is cut. Might put people's minds are ease. Especially as the Evo lite only has a hot alarm I think.


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

arwen_7 said:


> I'm pretty sure with the evo's if either hot or cold alarm is tripped then the power is cut. So if the sensor got severed I'd assume it would report back no/low temp and trip the alarm.
> 
> Maybe worth asking them to elaborate on what happens if the sensor is cut. Might put people's minds are ease. Especially as the Evo lite only has a hot alarm I think.


The Evo Lite doesn’t have any audible alarm.The only notification you get when it drops below min temp or above max temp is the colour of the actual temp showing digits change to blue (if too cold) or red (if too hot)


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

It was me that had serious issues with the Microclimate Evo Lite. I was running 4 of them for 7 months without any probs. I had serious issues with only 1 of them. I spoke to Microclimate 4 times about replacing it & they wouldn’t do it. It was their policy to only repair them.
The way they treated me was awful & their customer service was horrendous. The owner of the company blamed my setup.

So for this very reason I will not ever use a Microclimate product again & would personally warm anyone else off them. As a whole, I think they make a good product, BUT the product doesn’t sell a company. It’s the after sale service that sells a company!!!!


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Never had an issue with either a Microclimate or Habistat Thermostat, digital or analogue. Always found aftersales service to be brilliant, especially Habistat who replaced a probe for free, even though I admittedly cut it off with a pair or scissors by accident.

Its important to ensure you set them up correctly. I always use a heat lamp that provides as close to the basking surface temperature I require, at 100%, as possible. This ensures that, if the thermostat did fail in the on position, then it isn't going to cause an issue. Likewise, I would never use or recommend the use of a Ceramic or Heat Mat. Both are highly inefficient methods of heating, unnatural IR providers and especially with Ceramics, run at such a high temperature to make a small ambient temp change, that they are dangerous.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Tarron said:


> Both are highly inefficient methods of heating, unnatural IR providers and especially with Ceramics, run at such a high temperature to make a small ambient temp change, that they are dangerous.


To quantify that, a typical 100w CHE will have a surface temperature of around 150c when providing a hot spot and ambient air temp of 32c. (hence why a guard is strongly recommended). But are no more less efficient than using lamps, which can at times can equally reach similar surface temperatures. But there is little alternative. The Arcadia projectors are one of the most recent innovation in the heating arena, but only really cater for smaller enclosures due to the low wattages.

In the 35+ years I've kept snakes I've had two commercial ON/OFF format stats fail. Both failed in an ON state causing the mats that they were driving to run hot. Fortunately as I used a cheap digital thermometer with an alarm at the time I was alerted to the issue. I also used ultratherm woven mats which tend to be safer than the carbon strip type. Both were microclimate thermostats which were three to five years of age, and were thrown away and as a result were replaced with Habbistat versions, which for me have appeared to be more reliable. However back then there were no alternatives and everything was analogue, based on a comparator circuit and a thermister as a temperature probe, hence why I started looking at building my own. I have no idea if the new digital EVO units still use the same technology, or if they have switched to fully digital sensors and use a microchip to do the math...At least the newer electronic units feature alarms so you get a warning if something has gone wrong, and have some safety measures to disable the outputs in the event of an over heat event.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Malc said:


> To quantify that, a typical 100w CHE will have a surface temperature of around 150c when providing a hot spot and ambient air temp of 32c. (hence why a guard is strongly recommended). *But are no more less efficient than using lamps,* which can at times can equally reach similar surface temperatures. But there is little alternative. The Arcadia projectors are one of the most recent innovation in the heating arena, but only really cater for smaller enclosures due to the low wattages.


I'm afraid that's not quite right, for a number of reasons.

A ceramic heat is a convection heater, it warms the air around it. A light emitting heat lamp radiates the heat down directly, warming the basking zone. Comparatively, it will take a ceramic heat emitter a lot longer to warm a basking zone to the same temp that a shorter amount of time will take a Halogen, for example.

On top of that, Ceramics only emit IRc, which is an unnatural method of heating from above. Naturally, heat from above is IRa and IRb, which are both supplied in plentiful quantity from Light emitting sources. Even the DHP is poorer than a light emitting heater.

We should be raising basking surface temperatures to the right level whilst aiming to keep air temps relatively low, in order to allow proper thermoregulation. Heat the air up, especially with a convection heater, and you'll eventua,ly heat the entire viv up.

I'm not the best at explaining this, hopefully that helps, but Roman Muryn has much better information on it. I believe he has posted in this forum with such information, or its on facebook for anyone on there, check out the Reptile Lighting group. But ultimately, from a scientific and natural history point of view, Light Emitting Tungsten Filament Heat lamps are far superior, and more efficient, than Ceramic heat emitters.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Tarron said:


> On top of that, Ceramics only emit IRc,


Have to correct you. I quote the manufactures website (the brand I use).



> Each ceramic infrared heater element operates up to 750°C (1382°F) producing infrared wavelengths in the 2 – 10 micron range


That puts in in the middle of the short wave IR spectrum (IR B) through the mid wave length and into the start of far. Putting that into context, they don't just emit IRC, they emit B and C wavelength, all be it mostly in IR C wavelengths.

Anyway, it's not a pi55ing contest, and I agree that most of the methods currently used are not ideal. CHE's and Lamps, either incandescent or halogen, all tend to get warm and thus heat the ambient air temperature, as well as the focal point below them. Some lamps are more efficient than others, and the ideal method of heating the viv will be dependent on species (I think the air warming caused by using a CHE is more beneficial for tropical boa's and pythons). Also for a long time heat mats have been used incorrectly. Most will place then on the base of the viv and cover with a substrate, when in fact they are designed to be mounted on the side or back wall, or from above unless the viv is tall. This is because they emit IR A/B. But as they don't heat the air, are not ideal for species that need a warm air environment.

It would be great if someone could design a heater that provides the ideal IR component, warms the air and is of sufficient wattage to be used in large enclosures and does so in a most energy efficient way..... can we bottle the sun


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