# Making a marine tank.



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Well my local fish shop has couple marine tanks, and evrytime i go in i want one more and more. My birthday in June and may ask for money towards one, i would probably make the tank at home, could i do this with 4mm or 6mm toughened glass? and aquarium sealant?
The tank would be taller than its lenght, maybe 20"x15"x24-30" (LxDxH).
I would just keep few soft corals, live rocks, and clown, tang, goby, angle? i will look at the above fish once i have a few replys.
What would i need for this tank?
Scimmer
Filter
White Lights?
etc etc

Also does the tank have to run for 1week-1month before adding fish? and corals? or can corals be added once set up.


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

you will be better off having it wider rather than higher as you will need more light to reach the bottom of the tanks and it will be more difficult for you to physically reach too.

There are tank making companies around, I would prefer to go down that route as you know it will hold that water.

also are you going to use a sump? you will also need an actinic bulb. oh and a heater lol


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

what are the pros and cons of a sump?

only kept tropical and colwater fish as you may know


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## RussianTort55 (Jun 9, 2007)

you dont really NEED an actinic bulb, sumps are good, pros are things like more water, more circulation etc cons are things like money, space 

sumps are good, but i go with a refugium over a sump if i had to choose between them, you could have both

tall tanks are annoying to work with,

boss aquariums are a good aquarium maker.


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

I have two marine tanks and you might be best to buy one already made if you are looking at one that size. I have a 2 foot cube tank and it is rounded glass seamless corners at the front, came with a sump, and a 150w halide lamp, return pump and cabinet for £475. I bought a v400 skimmer for mine and have three sections in my sump, the middle ones being a sandbed with some live rock rubble and some chaetomorph algae to help with filtration. I also have live rock in the main tank.

You will struggle to have a tang in a tank that size really, minimum size for a tang is really 4-5 ft tank. Angel fish are a pain in the bum for nipping at your corals...so usually...its either corals or angel fish! I won't risk having one with my corals. Clowns, gobies, blennies, cardinals, dartfish and some wrasse are nice easy fish to start with. Soft corals like mushrooms, leathers and zoanthids are good starter corals too. 

This is a picture of my tanks about 5/6 months in (the smaller one is slightly older) you gotta take things really slowly with marine, so it looks a bit fuller now, but it gives you an idea.



















Anna


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

biohazard156 said:


>


What is the name of the wrasse's in the bottom left? I saw one in a display tank the other day and they are on my wishlist, my nano is only full of water at the moment


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## treeboa (May 4, 2005)

far too small for any tang also angels unless one of the dwarf species, that wrasse looks like a dragon, though the pics too blured to be certain


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

It is a leopard wrasse. They are notoriously hard to keep alive though, not really a beginner fish sadly!


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

snakelover said:


> Well my local fish shop has couple marine tanks, and evrytime i go in i want one more and more. My birthday in June and may ask for money towards one, i would probably make the tank at home, could i do this with 4mm or 6mm toughened glass? and aquarium sealant?
> The tank would be taller than its lenght, maybe 20"x15"x24-30" (LxDxH).
> I would just keep few soft corals, live rocks, and clown, tang, goby, angle? i will look at the above fish once i have a few replys.
> What would i need for this tank?
> ...


 
You will need 10mm glass for a tank that deep you will find it no dearer to buy one than make one.

G


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

alpharoyals said:


> What is the name of the wrasse's in the bottom left? I saw one in a display tank the other day and they are on my wishlist, my nano is only full of water at the moment


Its macropharyngodon bipartitus (sp). 



treeboa said:


> far too small for any tang also angels unless one of the dwarf species, that wrasse looks like a dragon, though the pics too blured to be certain


As above. 



biohazard156 said:


> It is a leopard wrasse. They are notoriously hard to keep alive though, not really a beginner fish sadly!


Yeh, I bought two for my marine tank (can I just note, your marine tank stocking: fish a shrimps, is identical to mine was! lol) and they were brilliant fish. Fed brilliantly, on anything meaty of course, and got nice and big and healthy. Never missed a feed, and were very bold. I guess I was lucky... I had live rock, but it wasn't full of copropods (again: spelling?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

*nano*

u shoul get a d and d 24gallon nao tank they are 18inches by 18inches by 18inches they come with t5 lighting wich is good for soft corals,filter and surface skimmer i used to keep a pair of clowns,goby and a couple of damsels,softies some hermits,cleaner and blood red shrimp,a decorator crab and a couple of little starfish in in mine there only about 180quid


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Was thinking of keeping:
2 Common Clowns (main reoson for wanting a marine tank, so if i get anything willl be these!)
2 Clarkii Clowns
1 Royal Gramma
1 Smiths Blenny
1 Yellownose Goby

What size tank are we talking?
What food you feed? I have never kept a marine tank, and never seen marine fish eat fish food you buy in stores.

Thanks for help.

Also i would buy 5kg live rock and soft corals. such as:
Devils Finger Leather Coral
Anemones:
Clownfish Anemone
bulb "
pink tip" 

and others

Thanks

Dan


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

I am setting up a marine tank as we speak, it is a 130 litre red sea "max".
it cost £580, £230 on live rock £45 on live reef sand and another another £200 on accesories so its just tipped the thousand pound mark and I have no livestock yet.

the reason I didnt go smaller is because apparently the smaller it is the harder it is to maintain the parameters of the water and even with the size of the tank I have you will be surprised how many fish are too big :bash:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> Was thinking of keeping:
> 2 Common Clowns (main reoson for wanting a marine tank, so if i get anything willl be these!)
> 2 Clarkii Clowns
> 1 Royal Gramma
> ...


I dont think you can really have two pairs of clowns, even seperate species, in one tank. 



snakelover said:


> What size tank are we talking?


Fish wise, if you were to swap the clowns for similar sized species, and going at a stocking level of about 1" per 4 gallons, seeing as you are including corals, I would say over a 100 gal tank. So, something like the Jewel Trigon 450 maybe, would be about right. Nice tanks they are too. 



snakelover said:


> What food you feed? I have never kept a marine tank, and never seen marine fish eat fish food you buy in stores.


Yeh, with the fish you have mentioned, a diet of prepared flake and pelleted foods would be good. Definitelt include some meaty foods though, lik f/t daphnia, brine shrimp (<<DEF), blood worm, mosquito larvae, krill... things like that. I dont think the species you have chosen need any veggy food, but if you swap those clarkii's for a tang or something (which I would : victory: ) then also some spirinula, spinach, lettuce, cucumber... stuff like that. 



snakelover said:


> Also i would buy 5kg live rock and soft corals. such as:
> Devils Finger Leather Coral
> Anemones:
> Clownfish Anemone
> ...


Sounds good. Stock slowly, and keep an eye on the nitrate and phosphate (obviously nitrite and ammonia should be 0!). Too-high levels of these are no good for the corals. What lighting are you using? Metal halides will give you the best lighting, if you can afford it, if not T5's. 

I would be careful with the anemones... they have a tendancy to die.. and the clowns def _dont _need one. They will almost certainly have never seen one in their whole life... so dont worry. 

Hope that helps anyways!



alpharoyals said:


> its just tipped the thousand pound mark and I have no livestock yet.


I had a 180 litre... and it topped the £1500 mark in the end :blush:


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

100 gal tank, what measuremnets is theat aprrox?

Thanks

May just get 1 pair or trio of clowns.


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

snakelover said:


> May just get 1 pair or trio of clowns.


sorry 1 pair max! they will just fight off the third once a pair is formed.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

My local shop has 3...aprox dimensions of a 100gal.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> My local shop has 3...aprox dimensions of a 100gal.


No, alpharoyals is right. Maybe short term... before they have paired off, but not long term. 

The clowns start off life as all males. As they mature, the largest in the group becomes a female. The second largest pairs of with her, as a male/female pair. This continues until one pair is left. Or, just as they split. So with 3, the larger two will pair off (the bigger = female) in the end, and bully the smaller male. 

Anyyyyywayyy...

Dimensions: a 5*2*1.5 ft tank would be nearly 100 gallons... (150 * 60 * 50 cm is).


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

maybe not that big en!!

What size tank would 1 pair of clowns need?

Thanks

sorry i now so little, and thanks for bieng...patience? and not getting annoyed.

Dan


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## maybrick (May 20, 2005)

Marine keeping is a great hobby, and i don't think its particluarly difficult.



But it is demanding. Do loads and loads of reading. There is so much to consider just one thread will never cover it.


A few important points worth mentioning...a big tank is a very expensive prospect. The tank will be pricey...but the live rock and skimmer, plus the powerheads will probably cost that much again.


Plus noise may be an issue...marine tanks aren't exactly quiet.


I would suggest (just my opinion) starting with one of the many "all in one" tanks you can get these days. The Red sea tanks are lovely (pricey though). While they tend to be 20-30 gallons (ish) that means if things go wrong you have not wasted so much money.

The downside is that smaller tanks are actually trickier to keep going.


Another thing to consider is getting a decent r/o unit fitted. Long term it will save you money.

And don't go easy on the live rock...its probably the most important part of the filtration system you have, expect to pay about £10 (ish) per lb, and you will need a lot. I have a 45 gallon, and i in that i have about £150 of rock...and i reckon i could do with more.


These sites are usefull (although the nano reef site is full of low tolerance arses that i generally would cross the road to avoid, but they know their stuff)
Nano-Reef.com Forums -> General Discussion

And

March 2008 - Volume 7, Issue 2 - Reefkeeping Magazine

WetWebMedia-Marine Aquarium Articles and FAQ's

Hope that helps a bit.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> maybe not that big en!!
> 
> What size tank would 1 pair of clowns need?


Not very big at all. Use the 1" per 2 (or 4) gallon rule. So, maybe about 16 gallons or so. _But_, I wouldn't recommend you go for much smaller than a 3ft*1.5*1 tank... thats a decent size for a starting marine tank. 

I'm sure you know... the bigger the tank, the more stable the water quality is. So when you are talking about marines, which come for the mahoosize ocean, and recieve NO fluctuation.. you want stable water water qaulity. 



snakelover said:


> sorry i now so little, and thanks for bieng...patience? and not getting annoyed.
> 
> Dan


Haha, thats ok! lol...

Is that a general statement... or a statement aimed at me from past experience? I hope the former :whistling2::lol2:


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ye thanks

What could i keep in a 24gal Nano tank? Clowns? whats the minumum for a pair of common clowns?


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> Ye thanks
> 
> What could i keep in a 24gal Nano tank? Clowns? whats the minumum for a pair of common clowns?


Thats k  Stil though: ???



AshMashMash said:


> Is that a general statement... or a statement aimed at me from past experience? I hope the former :whistling2::lol2:


But, anyway.. yeh, pair of clowns would go nicely in that size tank. Nano's, however, have a smaller water volume, and as I said: smaller = harder. I would say go for a 3fter if you can. 

And as for 'what can go in' as a general q... sooooo many things. Alsorts. Smaller fish, all the corals and inverts.. just in smaller amounts. Not many fish can go in it though, specially with inverts in (sessile ones I mean, corals and the like).


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

genral statment lol, dont think i have had a convo on here with you before : victory:

I dont think i would be able to afford a big tank. I think if i did get a tank, i would be looking at a 24gal Nano or there abouts.

Would 5kg of live rock be too much for a 24gal nano?


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## maybrick (May 20, 2005)

snakelover said:


> Ye thanks
> 
> What could i keep in a 24gal Nano tank? Clowns? whats the minumum for a pair of common clowns?


 
A couple of clowns (Ocelaris sp?), maybe a Goby, some corals, snails, maybe a cleaner shrimp. An Emerald crab if you are feeling brave.

5kg of rock doesn't sound like much. IIRC the rule of thumb is somehting like 1kg (or maybe 1lb) per gallon.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

yes the ocellaris sp.

think i am coming to an end of questions 

How much money should i excpect to pay for a 24gal Tank, evrything needed, and pair of clowns, also then i would get anemones, corals (whats the diffrence between corals, and anemones, anemones are classed as marine ivertabrates, whereas corals are just corals??)
You can keep anemones, and corals together yes?

Thanks alot guys?

Expect some more questions, i have probably some more to ask.

Your great help.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> genral statment lol, dont think i have had a convo on here with you before : victory:
> 
> I dont think i would be able to afford a big tank. I think if i did get a tank, i would be looking at a 24gal Nano or there abouts.
> 
> Would 5kg of live rock be too much for a 24gal nano?


Ah ok... lol. Gdgd. 

Normally, you can have up to about 2lbs per gallon. So, about 48lbs max, which is 20kg... so yes, 5kg is fine! The more you have, the more bacteria you add, and the more stable the tank is (and more food there is, and quicker it cycles), BUT, the more you reduce the water volume. 



maybrick said:


> A couple of clowns (Ocelaris sp?), maybe a Goby, some corals, snails, maybe a cleaner shrimp. An Emerald crab if you are feeling brave.


Agreed! Sounds good to me. 

My emerald crab died in a heat wave  he was AWESOME though:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

snakelover said:


> How much money should i excpect to pay for a 24gal Tank, evrything needed, and pair of clowns, also then i would get anemones, corals (whats the diffrence between corals, and anemones, anemones are classed as marine ivertabrates, whereas corals are just corals??)
> You can keep anemones, and corals together yes?


Money wise.. I am not sure, tbh. Get everything second hand and things, is what i did, makes it cheaper : victory:

You can keep anemones and corals together, but with caution. But, like I said, I wouldn't recommend you get an anemone at all... hard and finicky to keep in most circumtances. 

Anemones and corals are animals, and are both marine invertebrates... they are in different families and things though.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

I think the problem with anemones is that todays school of thought is to leave em to it.
Back in the late sixties and early seventies (before my time even) they were being kept successfully under nothing more than banks of household bulbs.
The difference was they were being gross fed once or twice a week on a piece of prawn or fish .
Too many shops don`t even mention gross feeding and would have you believe they can live off their zoo algea alone.

G


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

snakelover said:


> Would 5kg of live rock be too much for a 24gal nano?


I just got 24kgs of rock in a 30 gallon tank and I still think there is room for a little more and in my LFS they have a 3 foot tank, about 25 gallon ish with 40kgs of rock in! at £10/kilo thats more than the cost of the tank!


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

I have the d&d nano as one of my tanks, and the lighting provided with the tank is not really suitable (too weak) to be any good for housing anenomes. They are delicate creatures which require more space, aged water (like a year old stable tank) and strong halide lighting. You can keep numerous soft corals in this size tank though, I have mushrooms, leathers, zoas, ricordeas, star polyps... there are lots to chose from. 

As for fish, I have a pair of common clowns, and a watchman goby. This plus maybe a very small other fish would be all it can really cope with. 5 kilo of rock sounds too little for this tank also, I have about 10-11 in mine and it fits nicely with plenty room left for corals which might come on live rock. The more the better really, its hard to be successful without forking out a big chunk at the start really...we paid a lot to get a nice amount of good live rock and live sand.

You want to basically follow some steps like the ones here in order to set up the tank :

Get tank and asemble stand etc etc
Fill tank with RO water
Get heater running and let water heat up overnight (about 25 is fine) (heater not included with D&D btw)
Add your salt (you want to have the SG at about 1.024)
It is a good idea to have a refractometer to read this SG level.
Get an extra power head in the tank to create more flow per hour, the one provided in the back is not really adequate. A maxijet 1200 or 900 will be fine for extra ooomph. 
Once the salt has all dissolved and tank has cleared - check the readings over the next few days...make sure the SG stays at a good level.

Add live rock to bottom of tank... not onto the sand as it makes it unstable. Add your sand and leave it to settle...

This is the point where you do nothing for like 3 weeks apart from testing water levels for the ammonia spike (you need to get a kit for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH) don't add anything until nitrite and ammonia read 0 for a week or more. If you have cured live rock, you might not get much of an ammonia spike, if uncured, you may have to wait longer.

When the levels have stabilised you can start to add some clean up crew (hermits, snails etc) and get a mixture of them, red and blue leg hermits, and some astrea/turbo snails for glass and rocks, and some ceriths for under the sand.

During this maturation process, you will get a cyano bloom of algae, its a reddy brown film over everything...nasty and gross...but its natural and will go away. the clean up crew will help with that too.

I would advise waiting about 3 weeks in between adding things, and only add one or two small fish at a time as the bioload needs to adjust with the tank. 

Do a 10% water change every week after adding your fish and stuff...and rememeber to check the tank for evaporation (evap needs fresh RO no salt, water changes need salty RO  ) 

Corals can be added at and after the time of fish adding, as they have little effect on the bioload. Soft corals are best to start with, as more hard need better lights and will require you do add supplements to the water like magnesium and calcium. 

Hope this was helpful 

Anna


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

biohazard156 said:


> I have the d&d nano as one of my tanks, and the lighting provided with the tank is not really suitable (too weak) to be any good for housing anenomes. They are delicate creatures which require more space, aged water (like a year old stable tank) and strong halide lighting. You can keep numerous soft corals in this size tank though, I have mushrooms, leathers, zoas, ricordeas, star polyps... there are lots to chose from.
> 
> As for fish, I have a pair of common clowns, and a watchman goby. This plus maybe a very small other fish would be all it can really cope with. 5 kilo of rock sounds too little for this tank also, I have about 10-11 in mine and it fits nicely with plenty room left for corals which might come on live rock. The more the better really, its hard to be successful without forking out a big chunk at the start really...we paid a lot to get a nice amount of good live rock and live sand.
> 
> ...


Thanks....: victory:


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

Good write up Biohazard :no1:


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

alpharoyals said:


> Good write up Biohazard :no1:


Agreed :no1:


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