# Non albino, from 2 albino parents ?



## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Now then,

We've had ALOT of baby gecko's in this place, but ive never hada non albino animal come from two matching albino's

any idea's ? tremper mack het raptor x aptor het raptor !

this morning hatched a little mack snow, looks way to dark to be albino though !!!! 

any idea's ?


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

The different strains of albino aren't "allelic" - ie they don't match up.

Talbino x Balbino = Normal DH Talbino and Balbino...

Is it possible that one of the albino parents is a Tremper and one a Bell?

Either that, or you've somehow mislabelled the eggs / misidentified one of the parents? Or one of the "albino" genes in the baby has mutated (by chance) to become a viable part of the melanin production chain. The chances of that are pretty slim though...


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

HadesDragons said:


> The different strains of albino aren't "allelic" - ie they don't match up.
> 
> Talbino x Balbino = Normal DH Talbino and Balbino...
> 
> ...


Already thought of that, and nope and nope, thanks for replying though

parents are 100% sure (not first year breeding them)

Tremper albino Mack het raptor (proven) x Aptor het Raptor (proven) both 100% visual tremper albino's.....

no chance of eggs being mixed up, as we label both the tub of the parent who laid them, and the tub with the eggs in.

all my gecko's are kept individually, so absolutelly no way of mixing them up...

something VERY strange has happened, and im curious if its happened to anyone else...


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

I`ve heard of one other case last year - I bought a Mack Enigma from a bloke called RMcEvitt (or someat) on here via the classifieds. Anyhow, I obviously questioned her history/lineage, and he swore blind that her mother was a High Yellow that had come from a Tremper Mack to a Tremper Mack pairing - he`d also only had 100% other Trempers of types from that pairing, meaning that they were both compatible Albinos. I obviously thought he`d gotten a little muddled at the time, but the fact he later sold on the High Yellow he was on about, as a High Yellow means that he`d got to have been 100% convinced that`s what she was. 
Now, I obviously don`t particularly know the guy`s labelling methods or experience too much, but it seems odd that on both occasions a Mack Tremper Albino has been involved.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Kev132 said:


> Now then,
> 
> We've had ALOT of baby gecko's in this place, but ive never hada non albino animal come from two matching albino's
> 
> ...


 
1/Most likly a mega dark Talbino snow.

2/Talbino X Ralbino = Normal double HET.But if you 100% this is not the case.

3/Your Talbino patternless reverse striped(APTOR).Is infact a really good example of a Pattternless reverse striped (NON Talbino) = Non Talbino offspring possible.


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## meatgecko (Aug 25, 2007)

Kev132 said:


> parents are 100% sure (not first year breeding them)
> 
> Tremper albino Mack het raptor (proven) x Aptor het Raptor (proven) both 100% visual tremper albino's


Hiya Kev hope your ok. I didn't think two albinos could produce a non albino offspring maybe it's some kind of mutation? also you mention your geckos are het raptor. they are really just het for talbino and possibly eclipse.:2thumb: it's a common misconception that a leo can get het for Aptor or Raptor.

The tremper you sold me is doing great btw and really begining to pile on the weight:halo:


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## diane014 (Feb 2, 2008)

i dont care what she is, she is beautiful!


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

sorry if this was already mentioned but i have been thinking about this sort of thing recently with snakes so...
could it be retained sperm as you said she was a proven breeder?
what was she bred with last time?


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> sorry if this was already mentioned but i have been thinking about this sort of thing recently with snakes so...
> could it be retained sperm as you said she was a proven breeder?
> what was she bred with last time?



i think he already answered this ...

was bred to the same thing last time ..

agree with diane ... its stunning whatever it is  had the privilage of seeing the little thing last night


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## meatgecko (Aug 25, 2007)

Oh I agree kevs leos in general are some of the nicest I have seen, there was never any mention of them not being nice


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## Kev132 (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks guys :blush:

Could be retained sperm, BUT the male she was with last year was a raptor, so again, should still be an albino animal anyway ! 

really am puzzled, will leave it a while see if it lightens up, its either a very very dark albino mack, or a freak of nature lol


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## loxocemus (Sep 2, 2006)

this has happened in snakes, in a proven pr of albino black rats, would occasionally throw normal babies along with thier albino siblings, iv also heard of similar in texas rats and ball pythons.

it is obviously exceedingly rare but not unprecedented.

rgds
edward



Kev132 said:


> Now then,
> 
> We've had ALOT of baby gecko's in this place, but ive never hada non albino animal come from two matching albino's
> 
> ...


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## snakeprint (May 29, 2008)

How did albinos come about in the first place though - was it not just a mutated gene that someone then exploited and started breeding from? If two normal geckos can breed and something goes wrong to produce an albino, surely two albinos can breed and something goes wrong genetically to make the offspring non-albino.


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

snakeprint said:


> How did albinos come about in the first place though - was it not just a mutated gene that someone then exploited and started breeding from? If two normal geckos can breed and something goes wrong to produce an albino, surely two albinos can breed and something goes wrong genetically to make the offspring non-albino.


Theoretically, yes, but it's a bit more complicated.

An albino animal is an animal which has two "broken" copies of the genes required to produce melanin. Genes are very long and very complex, and even a minor change can "break" the gene. If a gene which produces something which is part of the melanin production chain mutates, the odds of it "breaking" are probably greater than 99%.

As an albino animal has two "broken" copies, in order for it to get a working copy the gene not only has to mutate (and the chances of that are very small), but it has to mutate in such a way that it "fixes" the "broken" gene. The odds of that happening are indescribably small, when you think of all the ways that the gene could mutate without being "fixed".

It's not impossible, but is highly unlikely. It's plausible that that's what's happened here though.


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Have you managed to get a pic of her, and/or it`s eyes at all yet?


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## snakeprint (May 29, 2008)

HadesDragons said:


> Theoretically, yes, but it's a bit more complicated.
> 
> An albino animal is an animal which has two "broken" copies of the genes required to produce melanin. Genes are very long and very complex, and even a minor change can "break" the gene. If a gene which produces something which is part of the melanin production chain mutates, the odds of it "breaking" are probably greater than 99%.
> 
> ...


Hmmm. It does sound highly unlikely when you put it like that. Perhaps there is an as yet undiscovered allele (is that the right word) somewhere that has in effect overridden the albino part of the gene so that melanin in this case has been produced, when it shouldn't really. Another mutation as opposed to mending the albino mutation.... I don't really know what I'm talking about and am getting rather lost....!


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## ukreticnut (Jan 4, 2008)

could be the same genetic misfire as a paradox albino like in some snakes?


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