# Is anything wrong with this snake?



## sansonet (1 mo ago)

He lies near my house and looks like swallowed somebody, but his wounds on top do not look normal to me.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

At a wild guess, an enormous cyst or internal growth of some sort


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

It turned dark here now and looks like he went inside the burrow he made in this pile of old tree branches and leaves. I wonder if he just scratched his back while moving through narrow places inside the pile, there might be some old smilax stems in this pile too.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Poor thing looks in need of medical attention. Really don't think that's a "food" bump.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Poor thing. Any chance it could be rescued and seen by a vet?


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

I don't know if we have any reptile vets in the area, I'm in a small town, some time ago I had opossum that need see vet and could not find one that accepted "exotic" patient. If this is something can be done at home _ I can do what I can myself - I have some veterinary skills on nurse level, but not doctor. But if this is some internal problem, I doubt it can be done.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm afraid that sometimes you have to leave nature be. It is what it is.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

I guess  I made video of him yesterday too, but just got a chance to upload it


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

My only suggestion is this.
Get hold of it, take it to any vet, explain it is a wild animal and clearly unwell and ask for it to be humanely destroyed.
I am sure that the US have the same situation with wildlife as we do in the UK, that a vet will provide the minimum treatment at no cost to relieve suffering to a wild animal.
Yes, that usually means euthanasia. 
Which is a far better option than to leave the snake to fester and suffer.
Wild injured animals can be difficult to heal, and costly.
This snake clearly needs surgery, which will not be done without significant cost. Its also doubtful if it survives.
Euthanasia is the best and kindest outcome. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is life.
Any vet can do that.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> My only suggestion is this.
> Get hold of it, take it to any vet, explain it is a wild animal and clearly unwell and ask for it to be humanely destroyed.
> I am sure that the US have the same situation with wildlife as we do in the UK, that a vet will provide the minimum treatment at no cost to relieve suffering to a wild animal.


 We can do it too, I mean we can use a gun to end his suffering, I hate it, but I doubt anybody will deal with surgery for a very common in our area rat snake. It has been raining today so I did not see him out on the pile yet and the birds are quiet - yesterday I noticed him because they fussed at him.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

sansonet said:


> We can do it too, I mean we can use a gun to end his suffering, I hate it, but I doubt anybody will deal with surgery for a very common in our area rat snake. It has been raining today so I did not see him out on the pile yet and the birds are quiet - yesterday I noticed him because they fussed at him.


Unorthodox, but as long as the shot is clean to the head and destroys the brain then so be it.
It's sad, but it's life.
The choice is, leave it as is, which, from what I can see, is a slow and painful death based on the abnormal swelling and the wounds (which appear to be skin splitting from the swelling) or an instant death which will be so fast it won't suffer. 
Clearly, the most humane method would be euthanasia, however, your suggestion is also valid. 
Let's be honest, here in the UK the RSPCA will use a pistol to euthanase a horse with a shot straight to the brain.
I see no difference.
Like I said, sad, but it's life and what's best for the snake.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> Clearly, the most humane method would be euthanasia, however, your suggestion is also valid.


I the case of a wild animal, I don't think euthanasia at the vet office is better - to much stress for the animal, you need to catch it, drive to a weird place and constantly handle/move it around. It could take 1 hr or more of stressful procedures.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

sansonet said:


> I the case of a wild animal, I don't think euthanasia at the vet office is better - to much stress for the animal, you need to catch it, drive to a weird place and constantly handle/move it around. It could take 1 hr or more of stressful procedures.


It's the manner of death that's important.
In the UK, access to firearms is very, very restricted.
That's why I said that your suggestion is equally valid.
I appreciate that UK members may disagree, however an instant end to suffering is the important fact.
The swelling in that snake is far from normal.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> In the UK, access to firearms is very, very restricted.


Yes, I heard it, I'm from Ukraine originally, and it was restricted there too, at least before the war... But my husband is American, he spent a lot of time living on the farm and knows how to use it, he had firearms all his adult life.

PS. Thank you all in UK for your support to Ukraine!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

sansonet said:


> Yes, I heard it, I'm from Ukraine originally, and it was restricted there too, at least before the war... But my husband is American, he spent a lot of time living on the farm and knows how to use it, he had firearms all his adult life.
> 
> PS. Thank you all in UK for your support to Ukraine!


Do what's right for the snake.
And for what its worth, the entire world is behind Ukraine, whats happening to your country is a disgrace. 
Frankly, the Western response had been lacking. We should be sending our forces in to put an end to this before it escalates further, which it will.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

My 2p worth, 

Given the freedom to possess guns in the US then I would suggest your husband puts the snake out of its misery with one nice clean head shot. Its less stressful for the snake, and less chance of you being bitten or covered in musk. If you have neighbours in earshot you might want to warn them so as to prevent someone calling the police and reporting gunshots fired...


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

Malc said:


> If you have neighbours in earshot you might want to warn them so as to prevent someone calling the police and reporting gunshots fired...


Not here, we are not in the town area, people often shooting targets, etc, I can hear all this - we have a lot of houses and subdivisions around. On New Year at midnight too, a lot


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

Malc said:


> less chance of you being bitten or covered in musk.


I'm not afraid of snakes, as long as they are not poisonous. I can catch and handle rat snakes without getting bitten, but even if it bites, it's nothing serious. They are not aggressive.
Pic I made few years ago with another wild rat snake


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

ian14 said:


> Let's be honest, here in the UK the RSPCA will use a pistol to euthanase a horse with a shot straight to the brain.
> I see no difference.


Not just horse, they also use them on certain wild animals. My FIL was an RSPCA inspector who was licensed to carry out those sad cases.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

I think putting the snake out of its misery in the fastest way possible is for the best. If your husband is able to ensure a good shot to the head, then that's the way forward.
Thank you for caring.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

It was cold here for while so I have not seen him, until today – we have a warm day and he came out. I got him and have him in a big container now. I want to see if I can do anything to get him better first. Just not sure how to take care of wild snakes in the middle of winter. I'm in NC. I don't think they are eating anything in the wintertime. What about water - do they drink in winter? Should I keep him in the house or outside? Sometimes it gets freezing here, a week ago we had a winter storm in the US - in our area it was cold up to -10C at night, and a few days after that with below zero temps. We have below zero during winter often, mostly at night. But some days like today is 20C. I also have reptile warming rock I can use, but not sure if I should this time of year. I can keep him in a container filled with hay in the barn. Maybe use some lamp for heating if it gets freezing. He made it through a winter storm in that pile - can snakes survive if body temp gets below zero?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

At this time of year, keep the snake at around 10C in a small, dark container. Provide a small water dish and a substrate it can burrow down in. Shredded paper is fine. This helps protect the snake from any sudden drop in temperature. Check weekly to ensure that no water has been spilt and change the water.
Towards the middle of February you can start thinking about gradually warming it up.
HOWEVER - with that swelling, which is very abnormal, I would seek a vet at the earliest opportunity.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

Ill check for options about getting help with his problem, but right now I want to make a comfortable place for him to stay. Not sure how to get a constant 10C temp - in the house we have 18-26, and in the barn it depends on the weather - could be anything from below zero to +25 (not often, more likely 10-15 in daytime). I can put that heating rock inside, or lamp, and attach it to the thermostat, so it will turn on when temp is below 10C. 
Still not sure if he will make it, but I want to try at least.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

sansonet said:


> Ill check for options about getting help with his problem, but right now I want to make a comfortable place for him to stay. Not sure how to get a constant 10C temp - in the house we have 18-26, and in the barn it depends on the weather - could be anything from below zero to +25 (not often, more likely 10-15 in daytime). I can put that heating rock inside, or lamp, and attach it to the thermostat, so it will turn on when temp is below 10C.
> Still not sure if he will make it, but I want to try at least.


He won't survive unless that swelling is checked. Its likely to be a tumour, cyst or some other growth.
One other possibility is thatbits swallowed a golf ball. Sounds strange I know, but I have read before that chicken farmers in the US sometimes use golf balls and ceramic eggs as a way of preventing the real eggs being eaten. I can't remember exactly how this works, but it's not unheard of for rat snakes, who will take eggs from the nest, to occasionally mistake one for an egg.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> One other possibility is thatbits swallowed a golf ball.


You were right! He had that ball inside. Pic of the ball is here, I post it as a link since it does not look too good and some people don't want to see it removed ball
Anyway, the ball is removed, and the belly is stitched. So far snake has been acting like a normal snake (just a couple of days after surgery), only problem is that even reptile vets can't say for sure whatever it is better to keep him in brumation or warm him up. Warming up means he should start eating, which is not too good after his belly was cut. Brumation means slow healing - here is a good article about it https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_the_common_garter_snake_Thamnophis_sirtalis
I'm kinda still trying to figure it out - does anybody have any idea?


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

this is a setup I have right now for the crawl space which I think would be best for brumation since temp there more constant, heat emitter just in case if temp will get below 9C, is attached to the thermostat and it is not set up to heat more than 11C, also a camera to monitor him from the house. The white bottle is for water. I also have wifi thermometer that alarms me if the temp goes too low/high, and even a smoke detector attached to the lid  But still not sure if I should just keep him inside instead.

Here is a more zoomed pic, the place where the ball was is above the head.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I took on an injured grass snake a looooong time ago, that had a large wound on its neck. I brumated her for 3 months, come the spring the wound was completely healed. I would suggest keeping it in brumation is probably the best approach.
Well done for getting the snake fixed with a vet!


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

This is good news for the snake. I am happy you decided to try and get him looked at before shooting him. Well done for caring.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

Debbie1962 said:


> This is good news for the snake. I am happy you decided to try and get him looked at before shooting him. Well done for caring.


I think it is too early to talk about the happy ending - full recovery is not guaranteed, but he definitely would die if the ball had not been removed, so I took a chance and tried to do the best I can to help him.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

True we don't know if he will make it but he made it through surgery so that's got to be a good thing. At least he won't die in agony, or from starvation very slowly.


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## sansonet (1 mo ago)

Some off-topic, but about rat snake too - I just found this in my barn  Not sure how long, but the circumference is about 13 cm on the part I measured. Parts lined up 150 cm total, but I see no head and tail tip, so it should be longer. Found it in a hidden place, it is old skin from the warm time of the year.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

You've certainly given the snake it's best chance of survival. Great to see people do still care x


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Holy cow @ian14 - what a call with that golf ball lol ....


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