# Are cat owners justified?



## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

It would be interesting to hear from both cat owners and those who do not have cats as to why cats are tolerated outside. I couldn't care less about house cats but letting your pet roam outside without supervision is bizarre. If people started letting dogs outside freely there would be outrage, so why are cats allowed?

Not only are they apparently a significant cause of decline and extinction in various animals, they themselves are easily harmed by cars etc. Surely it is best for all involved to keep cats inside?

Cats killing billions of animals in the US - BBC News

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## s2vto (Nov 21, 2010)

Sounds like a CATastrophe 


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

It's in _My_ 'Nature' .....


​


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes. I have had three cats. A ginger male and tabby female, brother and sister, who lived to be 15 and 18. During that time they were free to roam outside and very rarely brought anything home other than mice and two young rats, which is good as they are vermin, and after the age of about eight, I should think this was about once a year, and then never. They were also kept in at night, and they didn't object. We live in a quiet road with a large garden so they were happy to stay on this side.

We now have a Burmese/Korat cross (supposedly) who we rehomed two years ago after we lost our tabby. She had had a litter of kittens already at the age of two and had never been vaccinated. A risk I was prepared to take, so she was straight to the vets. She is the most loving and loyal cat ever, and has never caught anything. She goes out when I am here (which is a large part of each day), and happily comes in when called. She is in when I am out, and at night. She has never been across the road, and stays in the back garden.


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## Esiuol (May 19, 2014)

Cat owner here. I think cat's should be kept indoors, if you want your cat to go outside then cat proof your garden, so they cannot leave your garden or harness and leash train them.

Tired of seeing cats dead in the main road where I live. 
Tired of hearing the fighting at night.
Tired of other people's cat sh*t in the garden.
Tired of seeing the corpses left behind after a cat has had it's fun. Cat's kill for fun, not just for food and they don't always take the corpses home.

Would also help the crisis the UK is in at the moment with the over population of cats. Cat rescues simply cannot keep up.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I had 2 cats when I grew up. At the time (ca. 38 years ago) it must have been the norm to let cats roam, although ours were trained to come back before dusk (feeding time) and would sometimes just hang about the garden anyway.
They occasionally brought home animals, often still alive so my mum could at least save them. The female cat also tried to catch neighbours' fish from the pond, but never succeeded (they wrongly accused her until they caught a heron catching them).
As a child I never thought much of it, but I don't think I could keep cats like that again. I'd worry way too much about something happening to them.
Our tomcat once disappeared for about 2 weeks. When he returned he had a wire embedded around his neck and was deeply distraught. He never really recovered mentally from whatever happened to him and was very timid for the rest of his life.
I couldn't go through this.


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## grahamhypher (Dec 30, 2008)

I've got 2 cate that get out, they occasionally bring home mice and one rat. They usually eat the mice, although they've definitely brought home " presents " I live in the city off the main road so I'm not really worried for them on the road, and I see pest control round often enough to know that rodents are a problem so I'm not worried about the impact my cats make. Not sure what I'd do if I lived in the countryside. 


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## johne.ev (Sep 14, 2008)

Surprised no ones mentioned the fact that they shit in everyone's but there own garden! I wouldn't deliberately hurt a cat, but if I'm quick enough, they get a bucket of cold water to deter them from mine. If I know where the cat lives I pick the shit up & take it to where it lives & leave it on the door step if no one answers the door to receive what's rightfully there's.
I live on an estate & there are lots of cats, the communal flower beds absolutely stink, its disgusting. Like someone else said, if it were dogs shitting all over the place there would be uproar.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

johne.ev said:


> Surprised no ones mentioned the fact that they shit in everyone's but there own garden! I wouldn't deliberately hurt a cat, but if I'm quick enough, they get a bucket of cold water to deter them from mine. If I know where the cat lives I pick the shit up & take it to where it lives & leave it on the door step if no one answers the door to receive what's rightfully there's.
> 
> I live on an estate & there are lots of cats, the communal flower beds absolutely stink, its disgusting. Like someone else said, if it were dogs shitting all over the place there would be uproar.



Very true , our cat apparently used to krap in our next door - but one - neighbours garden . One day the guy politely asked us to 'do something about it' 

We still have no idea what he was suggesting but it tickled us at the time


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Fox poo is worse in my opinion. They seem to take great delight in squatting and dumping a pile on plants, pots, steps over the washing line hole etc.

Remember the days before dog poo bags? :devil:


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## Addymk2 (Dec 25, 2009)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19353/Cats-kill-275-million-animals-year.html

It's from the era of the dailyfail posting remotely credible articles.

Cats will 'play' with anything that they can get there paws on as long as it's smaller than themselves.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Not ignoring this thread, will reply tomorrow.

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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

el Snappo said:


> It's in _My_ 'Nature' .....
> 
> 
> [URL=https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/223082tnRifle.jpg]image[/URL]​


Not sure I would ever go this far - I certainly don't disagree with it however. Quite a few questions about this though!

Any idea on the legality? How well received is this method in the community? What do you do with the bodies?

If you was to do this here it would cause outrage! Thanks for the reply.

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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Stephen P said:


> Yes. I have had three cats. A ginger male and tabby female, brother and sister, who lived to be 15 and 18. During that time they were free to roam outside and very rarely brought anything home other than mice and two young rats, which is good as they are vermin, and after the age of about eight, I should think this was about once a year, and then never. They were also kept in at night, and they didn't object. We live in a quiet road with a large garden so they were happy to stay on this side.
> 
> We now have a Burmese/Korat cross (supposedly) who we rehomed two years ago after we lost our tabby. She had had a litter of kittens already at the age of two and had never been vaccinated. A risk I was prepared to take, so she was straight to the vets. She is the most loving and loyal cat ever, and has never caught anything. She goes out when I am here (which is a large part of each day), and happily comes in when called. She is in when I am out, and at night. She has never been across the road, and stays in the back garden.


Clearly cats can be quite humane from a ethical/ecological perspective. It is a shame this doesn't seem to always be the case. Thanks for the reply!

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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Esiuol said:


> Cat owner here. I think cat's should be kept indoors, if you want your cat to go outside then cat proof your garden, so they cannot leave your garden or harness and leash train them.
> 
> Tired of seeing cats dead in the main road where I live.
> Tired of hearing the fighting at night.
> ...


I agree with your points, thanks for the reply.

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

*.....*

Fish .....



FishForLife2001 said:


> Not sure I would ever go this far - I certainly don't disagree with it however. Quite a few questions about this though!
> 
> 
> Any idea on the legality?
> ...


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Don't know quite what happened there.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

How do you know they are all feral cats that your shooting?


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

I say, " Puss, puss, puss!!! ". And, if they don't come running, with their tail up? I light them up, Debbie :whistling2:


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Oi not all pet cats are friendly :gasp:.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

el Snappo said:


> I say, " Puss, puss, puss!!! ". And, if they don't come running, with their tail up? I light them up, Debbie :whistling2:


Are you for real?


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Take no notice Stephen he likes to wind people up don't you :whistling2:.


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Debbie1962 said:


> ..... he likes to wind people up don't you :whistling2:.



_Moi?!_ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruyqR_jMI0


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

You are such a wind up merchant. And don't worry people the you tube link isn't anything awful just Snappos idea of humour. Now I love cats so let's have no more talk of shooting them please it is upsetting for moi as it is for others.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

el Snappo said:


> _Moi?!_
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zruyqR_jMI0


That was fantastic!

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

​ 
John 11:35
​


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## s2vto (Nov 21, 2010)

I like cat. I find it difficult to eat a whole one though 


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

el Snappo said:


> Perfectly legal. I'm a certified, licensed, time served marksman. I target only feral's. What I touch the trigger on doesn't know I've hit it. Believe me.
> 
> Extremely! Round bail of hay was c. €45.00, last season. Cat urinates on One bail? That's gone. You any idea what a cat can manage in a hay barn, in one night? Farmers don't draw dole.
> 
> ...


1. How do you know they're feral - do you ask first??
2. Most farmers like cats on their farm as they keep the rat population down. Rats urinate on one bale, they don't even know, but that's just as damaged as if a cat urinates on them. Also rats chew through bags of animal feed - how much does that cost the farmer???
3. The rest - load of shite!


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I've never seen cats take rats. I thought that's why farmers keep Terriers.


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

feorag said:


> 1. How do you know they're feral - do you ask first??
> 2. Most farmers like cats on their farm as they keep the rat population down. Rats urinate on one bale, they don't even know, but that's just as damaged as if a cat urinates on them. Also rats chew through bags of animal feed - how much does that cost the farmer???
> 3. The rest - load of shite!



1. I've already explained once.

2. I'm sorry. You're delusional.

3. No. Load of cats. But, the birds keep them down


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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

colinm said:


> I've never seen cats take rats. I thought that's why farmers keep Terriers.


Colin; As any rat catcher will yell ye ~ and yes, I was a rat catcher _long_ before they developed the self delusion that they were on a par with Dr Christian Barnard and worth his wages ~ it's vital that ye terriers be broken to cats. 

Why is this? Because the farmers don't like ye Dogs ripping up their cats. Unless they be stock farmers.

Now, let us pause one moment and ask ourselves ..... If the cats are so good; Why is the farmer paying me good money to get rid of his rats?


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## Esiuol (May 19, 2014)

Cats tend to take small things, bugs, mice, shrews, voles, chicks and typically smaller birds. Unless something is injured then they might try to take something larger. 

Let's not forget they typically kill for fun - not kill to eat. Horrible to see a cat 'play' with an animal then leave it to slowly die from it's injuries and stress. Cats mouths are probably the worse - very easy to get a bad infection from a bite.

Wild rats are large and not afraid to protect themselves - many cats wouldn't face off with a rat, even ferrets tend to avoid rats! Terriers or poison are probably the best way to eradicate them.

Honestly cannot understand why people let their cats roam... Once upon a time, dogs roamed too but now they'd get picked up by the dog warden and you'd have a fine to pay for the privilege or the dog is PTS after 7 days.

- Their cat could catch FeLV, FIV, calicivirus, feline herpesvirus...
- General illnesses or injuries from fighting...
- If they aren't spayed or neutered, they will breed prolifically - cat rescues are literally bursting at the seems and cannot cope with demand, they turn so many away but people still let their cat have litters! It's not expensive to neuter your cat £25-60 in most places, cats protection offers discount/free neutering to people in receipt of certain benefits in certain areas.

If you want a pet - keep it indoors or cat proof your garden so it can't escape and be responsible. Hardly being a responsible owner when you haven't a clue where your cat is most of the time.


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## FK Geckos (Jun 29, 2017)

If people cared about their pets they wouldn't shove them out the house to wander the streets everyday. Keep them on your own property and keep them safe it's not exactly difficult. If they really need to be outside then enclose the garden or even better build a nice big enclosure like you would for a raccoon, civet, genet or whatever. 

Some might say I don't like cats but that's simply not true. Many people are probably the same as me but too stupid to understand that it's not cats that are the problem it's the half arsed owners that are.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Totally agree with those last 2 posts - allowing cats to free roam is an old fashioned, outdated idea and time laws were brought out to make owners responsible for their cats.

I get fed up of hearing the old "it's cruel to keep them in" statement - it's not if you provide them with entertainment.


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## Serpentine83 (Aug 20, 2017)

I know @Viperlover declares his adoration for outside cats now and then on Facebook :')


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## Faynt (Aug 26, 2017)

FishForLife2001 said:


> It would be interesting to hear from both cat owners and those who do not have cats as to why cats are tolerated outside. I couldn't care less about house cats but letting your pet roam outside without supervision is bizarre. If people started letting dogs outside freely there would be outrage, so why are cats allowed?
> 
> Not only are they apparently a significant cause of decline and extinction in various animals, they themselves are easily harmed by cars etc. Surely it is best for all involved to keep cats inside?
> 
> ...


Cats are allowed outside because they're not domesticated animals and aren't a threat too society, that is why...


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Faynt said:


> Cats are allowed outside because they're not domesticated animals and aren't a threat too society, that is why...


They are domesticated. Not a threat but a nuisance.

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## Faynt (Aug 26, 2017)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Faynt said:
> 
> 
> > Cats are allowed outside because they're not domesticated animals and aren't a threat too society, that is why...
> ...


they're only semi domesticated and just choose too put up with humans.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Where do you get that information from?


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Faynt said:


> they're only semi domesticated and just choose too put up with humans.


How can something be semi domesticated? They are domesticated as they are bred with human desired traits, and perform various tasks. 

A cat is too basic to 'put up' with something. 

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## BornSlippy (Jan 11, 2010)

Esiuol said:


> Let's not forget they typically kill for fun - not kill to eat.


Actually the only creature that kills for fun is man. As horrible as it looks, cats are just further honing their hunting skills when seemingly playing with their prey.

Mm view on cats is they should be kept indoors for their own safety and the safety of our wildlife. 

Funny to see a lot of people saying they are sure their cats never catch much. Well you can't be watching them 24/7. They do kill more than you think (or let's face it...hope).


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

BornSlippy said:


> Actually the only creature that kills for fun is man. As horrible as it looks, cats are just further honing their hunting skills when seemingly playing with their prey.
> 
> Mm view on cats is they should be kept indoors for their own safety and the safety of our wildlife.
> 
> Funny to see a lot of people saying they are sure their cats never catch much. Well you can't be watching them 24/7. They do kill more than you think (or let's face it...hope).


Actually my current cat has caught nothing in the two years that I have had her (she is four years old). She goes out when we are here, which is a fair proportion of the day, never wanders and stays within our garden. She is in overnight so I know she has not caught anything ever.


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## elishacoombes9 (Sep 5, 2017)

Cats are wild animals as are dogs. Dogs are now our companions, there are a lot of countries where they do roam freely though. whereas most cats do prefer to be outside from experience. Yes cats hunt. I’ll be honest my boy especially, (I do have 4 cats) probably brings back something every day. Either a shrew, mouse or a rat. Likes to leave them in my drive for me. Where I’ve recently moved out in the sticks/country there’s a lot of these and therefore my cat likes to eat them. I don’t like it no. But I can’t stop him, it’s what they do. It’s in their nature to hunt and kill prey. 
Not going to sugar coat it. 
So in my opinion cats should be outside, I think my cats would go mental being left in all the time, I think it’s cruel. 


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry I'd have to disagree with that - I don't think it's cruel.

There are a lot of reasons in today's society not to allow cats to free roam, some not very pleasant.

When I take on any pet I take on the responsibility of that pet and try to give it the best life I can and part of that responsibility is to keep them safe.

I had 10 cats and I catproofed my garden so they could go outside safely. I did it way back in 1991 and never had a cat escape. In all that time I had ONE cat who loved to be outside most of the time and would sit out there for hours on his own. The rest wanted to be where we were - if we went out in the garden they came out with us, but when we came in, one by one they followed us in.

A lot more people are doing this now, or building decent size runs in their gardens. No reason why cat owners can't do this.


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## elishacoombes9 (Sep 5, 2017)

feorag said:


> Sorry I'd have to disagree with that - I don't think it's cruel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I get where you’re coming from, and can understand your views on this. 
But it’s my opinion. I think it’s cruel to keep an animal which loves to be out exploring and hunting shut in. Cats are wild, we have domesticated them, and I know a lot of people who have house cats. But My cats hate being locked in for longer than they want. 
All my cats are all safe. I live right next to fields and they love being out exploring around the country fields etc. I cat proofed last house as was near a road but where I am not it’s completely safe surrounding fields. Yes they do hunt but it’s what they do. I hate clearing up dead animals after them as such and they do all have bells but still doesn’t stop them. But they are all spoilt rotten, stupidly soppy and cuddly too. I just wouldn’t restrict them to only the garden as I personally think it’s unfair. 


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I take your point, but as you rightly pointed out in your first post, dogs were wild too and we domesticated them. Every animal we now choose to keep as a pet was wild once, so why differentiate between cats and them?

You said yourself you cat proofed your last house? Circumstances do make a difference, but just because you live near fields doesn't mean your cat is safe. I have friends who live in the middle of the country who've had cats shot and others who've had the cat run over on a quiet country road a mile from their house - you can never underestimate how far a cat will travel when it's out.

So we will have to agree to differ on this, but using the "it's in their nature to hunt and kill" excuse doesn't cut it for me. It's in every predator's nature to do that, including dogs, but we don't allow them to.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

el Snappo said:


> It's in _My_ 'Nature' .....
> 
> 
> [URL=https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/223082tnRifle.jpg]image[/URL]​


It's in my nature when arseholes shoot my cats.....They fire, *I* fire.....


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## elishacoombes9 (Sep 5, 2017)

feorag said:


> I take your point, but as you rightly pointed out in your first post, dogs were wild too and we domesticated them. Every animal we now choose to keep as a pet was wild once, so why differentiate between cats and them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





My cat was shot when I was living in blooming Taunton! By some young idiots. He survived as they only got his leg. 
I’ve had a cat hit also. Where I have moved they are perfectly happy and safe. I made sure of surrounding etc before moving. With 4 cats, all happy and healthy and alive. I think they’re fine outside! They hate being confined. 

Also, yes we do allow dogs to hunt and kill! People have dogs for this ‘sport’. Lurcher, terriers, springers etc. All dogs used for hunting. Cats do this on their own backs, we train up our dogs to do this. That’s even worse! 


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## The Deeman (Oct 10, 2017)

I hate cat shit in the garden. I hope I hope i get drunk enough one night to have the courage to take a dump in my neighbours garden.
And what about feral cats breeding with the Scottish Wild Cat? Seemingly they are about extinct due to inter-breeding.

Pests, that is all they are.


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## Addymk2 (Dec 25, 2009)

elishacoombes9 said:


> My cat was shot when I was living in blooming Taunton! By some young idiots. He survived as they only got his leg.
> I’ve had a cat hit also. Where I have moved they are perfectly happy and safe. I made sure of surrounding etc before moving. With 4 cats, all happy and healthy and alive. I think they’re fine outside! They hate being confined.
> 
> Also, yes we do allow dogs to hunt and kill! People have dogs for this ‘sport’. Lurcher, terriers, springers etc. All dogs used for hunting. Cats do this on their own backs, we train up our dogs to do this. That’s even worse!
> ...


Dogs hunt foxes/badgers in much smaller numbers than cats. That's the same as the chimp owners arguing that dogs kill people too. It's not on the same scale.

Cats are responsible for the decline of a LOT of the UKs wildlife, in rural areas especially. Which is a shame, they're not evolved to compete or escape from cats so they're slaughtered. Usually painfully as cats like to practice.

Slow worms, sand lizards, young snakes, voles, moles, field mice and countless others.

Cats should be kept indoors and if they need to go outside have an area they're restricted too.

Feel free to argue with me but those are the facts of the matter. Enjoy your cats.


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## elishacoombes9 (Sep 5, 2017)

Addymk2 said:


> Dogs hunt foxes/badgers in much smaller numbers than cats. That's the same as the chimp owners arguing that dogs kill people too. It's not on the same scale.
> 
> Cats are responsible for the decline of a LOT of the UKs wildlife, in rural areas especially. Which is a shame, they're not evolved to compete or escape from cats so they're slaughtered. Usually painfully as cats like to practice.
> 
> ...





We have different opinions on how to look after our animals. That’s fine, I’m just stating my point as no one else on here is admitting to what our cats do etc. I’m the only one who’s actually said yeah my cats kills animals. It’s not ideal, I hate it. But it happens. 
Could also argue on how humans are so awful killing and eating animals also! And how many animals are becoming extinct because of us. We are the worse ‘animal’ out there. We are worse than cats. Worse than any animal. 


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

elishacoombes9 said:


> My cat was shot when I was living in blooming Taunton! By some young idiots. He survived as they only got his leg.
> I’ve had a cat hit also. Where I have moved they are perfectly happy and safe. I made sure of surrounding etc before moving. With 4 cats, all happy and healthy and alive. I think they’re fine outside! They hate being confined.
> 
> Also, yes we do allow dogs to hunt and kill! People have dogs for this ‘sport’. Lurcher, terriers, springers etc. All dogs used for hunting. Cats do this on their own backs, we train up our dogs to do this. That’s even worse!


I didn't say they didn't get shot in built up areas, did I? I said they aren't necessarily any safer living in the country, as you are stating. So I'm still agreeing to disagree on that comment. You simply cannot guarantee that they are safe roaming in the country, any more than in the town.

And sorry, but as you say yourself that's people hunting with dogs, so you can't compare the two.


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## Addymk2 (Dec 25, 2009)

elishacoombes9 said:


> We have different opinions on how to look after our animals. That’s fine, I’m just stating my point as no one else on here is admitting to what our cats do etc. I’m the only one who’s actually said yeah my cats kills animals. It’s not ideal, I hate it. But it happens.
> Could also argue on how humans are so awful killing and eating animals also! And how many animals are becoming extinct because of us. We are the worse ‘animal’ out there. We are worse than cats. Worse than any animal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A lot of species have became extinct because of invasive species introduced by humans. E.g Cats.

Look up what free roaming cats have done to native species in Brazil if you want a researched example.


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## Shrimp (Jan 13, 2018)

feorag said:


> Totally agree with those last 2 posts - allowing cats to free roam is an old fashioned, outdated idea and time laws were brought out to make owners responsible for their cats.
> 
> I get fed up of hearing the old "it's cruel to keep them in" statement - it's not if you provide them with entertainment.


100% agree here,
The UK should adopt a similar rule to the Australians that all cats should be kept indoors.

I've had enough of seeing dead cats on the roads etc, the owners shod be ashamed for risking there pets life imo
I have 7 cats all are indoor cats , we're in the process of creating a outdoor enclosure for the spring/summer months.

Like the saying goes... Its better to have an indoor fat cat than a outdoor FLAT cat...


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## mudskipper (Jan 4, 2015)

why stop there we should ban all vehicles from using our roads as well i see loads of dead animals and birds by the roadside


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## Demonique (May 5, 2007)

Shellsfeathers&fur said:


> Fox poo is worse in my opinion. They seem to take great delight in squatting and dumping a pile on plants, pots, steps over the washing line hole etc.
> 
> Remember the days before dog poo bags? :devil:


Anyone remember white dog poo?


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Demonique said:


> Anyone remember white dog poo?


Erm yes. Doesn't it go white when it's old.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Isn't white poo diet related? I always thought it was?


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## reece_p (Feb 11, 2011)

i dont think the poo turns white anymore due to the preservatives in most pet foods. so it never breaks down.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Could be - certainly in the days when white poo was all over the place, most people just fed meat and table scraps to their dogs, rather than a proper balanced diet.


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