# Private primate owners and going on holiday



## kiania (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi,

I hope I'm not treading on any toes, but I'm looking into starting my own pet sitting business in GB in a few months after my current volunteering stint ends, and one of the things I am considering offering as a service is in-house primate sitting. I have got the impression that the private primate community is fairly insular, and considering how much care these animals require, not to mention the research needed, I imagine going on holiday and trusting inexperienced family or friends to watch over them can occasionally be problematic.

So I was wondering (and very much hoping) if any primate keepers in Great Britain on this forum (and elsewhere if you wouldn't mind passing it on) wouldn't mind participating in my market research. There are no personal questions asked of participants, and it shouldn't take more than 5 to 10 minutes.

The link is: http://www.surveypie.com/survey101365

I am more than happy to answer any questions here, or via PM.

Thank you very much in advance to all that help me out


----------



## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

All the private primate owners that I know have trusted friends that look after their pets whilst they're on hols. The monkeys already know and trust their temporary keepers, and the owners know they've been left in good hands.


----------



## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> All the private primate owners that I know have trusted friends that look after their pets whilst they're on hols. The monkeys already know and trust their temporary keepers, and the owners know they've been left in good hands.


I agree with this post^^^^^ also why would you do pet/house sitting for primates? most businesses like your planning do any animal if asked, the few (any good) primate keepers will have friends/family who know what there doing and therefor not need to pay someone they don't know or trust with there amazing "pets". I'm sure the odd 1 or 2 people who keep exotics/primates may need someone like you but 98% willn't

I have a large collection and none of my close friends have any real interest in my collection, they think I'm crazy :2thumb:, same with my family (not OH and kids) BUT the few times I go on holiday I just run through what they need to do, give them a VERY long list and away they go. they don't need to know everything just what to feed what and which ones may attack them so on and any issues they have they can always just ring, mobiles are amazing things :2thumb::2thumb:


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Havent had a holiday in over twenty years.

Day here n there....

Usually zoos to see small primates...

But as Mrchris says we have collegues we would trust.

Would never consider a stranger....

Plus a holiday would be expencive and my friends would be happy
with a stick of rock.

You would need paid....

Maybe would be ok for a pair or single group
but any serious breeder would never consider using this.


----------



## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm lucky, my two best friends absolutely love animals and this year they both moved into the farmhouses across the road from me. I very rarely am away for more than a day, but in an emergency they would both know what to do to look after everything if they had to.

In saying that, if for some reason my two friends (or my other choices) could not be there every day, I would consider using a service like this. But there would have to be some way of proving their expertise, experience, knowledge and most importantly their trustworthy-ness. I think that most people with a highly prized collection of animals would only use this service as a last option, and they would want some way that they could guarantee the person could be trusted and know what they are doing. You might find yourself in a catch-22 situation... you would need to prove your experience with caring for these animals before anyone would hire you to look after their's, but you might not be able to get that experience because no one would hire you without the experience!

Please don't see this as negative ! It would definitely be an invaluable service to some... if I was in an emergency and for some reason NONE of the people I trust could help, I would love for there to be someone with a good reputation and could prove their experience/knowledge who could look after my animals.

I would suggest volunteering at wildlife parks and with other keepers etc to get as much experience as possible before you start this. I trust my friends because they help me look after the animals nearly every day, they know exactly what to feed and do to keep them healthy - but more importantly they know the behaviour and personality of each animal, and they would be able to see any early signs that something was wrong and let me know immediately . It would take a lot more than just showing up once a day to feed/water the animals, you would need to have an intimate knowledge with each species you would be caring for and be able to notice the very first signs that something was up. (Btw, not meaning to say that you don't have that knowledge/experience already - you could be a primate expert for all we know!) I wish you all the best and do think that if you could prove your knowledge/experience/trust then you would be able to offer an invaluable service to a few people in an emergency.


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Can see where you are coming from suity.

A place like you are setting up will have plenty people offering thrre services.

I just feel nobody cares for or knows your animals like you do.

But somebody there helping etc would get to know them.

I tend to think that having knowledge is one thing.
But theres nouhht better than experiance...


Theres lots i read about people with vast collections on here.
But they have there special species that they sre knoledgable in..

I would never concideranyone without proving practicle experiance


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Also for me i would be worried about someone knowing too much about security,and who they might speak to.We never go on holiday,being with the animals every day is relaxing enough.


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Agree Dave..

Relaxing yes.....lol

Try telling my fuzzy tired head that..

Feeding every three hours hand rearing...

But all going well the end results better than a two week tan.


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

You know you love it peter,a normal lifestyle would not suit us at all,my life would be so boring without the animals.It is tough when hand rearing,but i find after the first few nights its not so bad,unless its for weeks on end!but then you look at their little faces and its worth the inconvenience of not much sleep and clock watching constantly.We would never trust anyone with our animals,too much for someone to remember,when you do it every day as second nature you dont realise how much there is to remember.


----------



## kiania (Feb 19, 2011)

philipniceguy said:


> I agree with this post^^^^^ also why would you do pet/house sitting for primates? most businesses like your planning do any animal if asked


It is not the primary concern of the business model. It was an added extra (aside from the usual dog/cat/small animal) that I am purely curious to know whether it would be worth including as a possibility (hence the market research - and RFUK is a forum I read anyway, so made sense to start here).



suity said:


> I think that most people with a highly prized collection of animals would only use this service as a last option, and they would want some way that they could guarantee the person could be trusted and know what they are doing. You might find yourself in a catch-22 situation... you would need to prove your experience with caring for these animals before anyone would hire you to look after their's, but you might not be able to get that experience because no one would hire you without the experience!
> 
> Please don't see this as negative ! It would definitely be an invaluable service to some... if I was in an emergency and for some reason NONE of the people I trust could help, I would love for there to be someone with a good reputation and could prove their experience/knowledge who could look after my animals.
> 
> I would suggest volunteering at wildlife parks and with other keepers etc to get as much experience as possible before you start this. I trust my friends because they help me look after the animals nearly every day, they know exactly what to feed and do to keep them healthy - but more importantly they know the behaviour and personality of each animal, and they would be able to see any early signs that something was wrong and let me know immediately . It would take a lot more than just showing up once a day to feed/water the animals, you would need to have an intimate knowledge with each species you would be caring for and be able to notice the very first signs that something was up. (Btw, not meaning to say that you don't have that knowledge/experience already - you could be a primate expert for all we know!) I wish you all the best and do think that if you could prove your knowledge/experience/trust then you would be able to offer an invaluable service to a few people in an emergency.


I have an MSc in a primate-related subject, and spent time volunteering at four seperate locations (two primate sanctuaries, two zoos - three in the UK, one in the USA). My speciality is captive primate behaviour with a focus on stereotypies (my two degrees focused on woolly monkey rearing and the affect on behaviour, and captive moloch gibbon behaviour, enclosure usage and proximity as a method for analyzing pair bond - the latter of which was a horrific fail as a hypotheses  ). My favourite species is the cotton top tamarin, and 5 to 10 years down the road, assuming I'm not working with primates in a zoo, then I'm going to start down the route of private primate ownership myself. Volunteering is fine (and I'm planning to work more into my work schedule), but it is very transient as unfortunately, I don't have a trust fund 

Hope that answers a few questions about experience though - if there are any more questions about such (or any others), I'm more than happy to answer them.

But thank you to the two people that clicked through my market research survey, that is appreciated, thank you


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Were you a studant at the zoo?

The thing about zoos is chain of command.

Working there you do what your told to do.

I know alot of zoo people and quite a few of them are numpties
that i wouldnt let dog sit.
Not saying you are.

Im old fationed and still say hands on experiance of anything that comes your way cant be obtained from letters after your name....

But good luck with your venture allot may use.


But never any serious primate keepers...
That i know of anyway...


----------



## kiania (Feb 19, 2011)

Volunteer and intern, depending on which site it was. Not what I'd call long-term experience, but that is something that, in the public business world, is almost impossible to get into.

I also know a lot of zoo people that I wouldn't trust with any of my own pets. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position (financially, or space-wise) myself currently to go into private keeping. But if I can't get paid for doing the thing I love, then I'll go the opposite way and do something to get money elsewhere to do the thing I love  So depending on how things go, I have a 10 year plan to get there.

But yes, I was fairly sure it wasn't a viable offering, but without actually asking, there was no way of actually knowing. Having zero results, having 50 results all saying no, or having 10 results saying yes...each is useful as a data point for working out viability - but as it was always to be considered as an added extra (if it was a few times a year, I'd treat it as _my_ 'holiday' even for the cost of petrol - I know what people mean when they say it is relaxing!), it isn't a make-or-break for me. My primary concern was that so far, looking around at pet sitter websites, the amount that deal with exotics is tiny - and as an exotics keeper, I felt the lack when I last went to a conference (the sitter I chose had looked after a single species of reptile (forget which now), but never heard of a dwarf hamster, mind you - although she did seem to get a kick out of holding a few of my inverts  ). Again, not the bread-and-butter, but something that I'd personally like in a sitter, is something I can offer elsewhere 

Can't blame me for trying the primate market, since that is, after all, my chosen subject for academia and volunteering in the past (and present, for that matter, although currently it is apes as opposed to primates that are likely to be in private hands).


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

As you will have found out,many primate/exotic keepers are very private and cautious,letting a stranger on to the premises would be a big no-no.Even if you were very trustworthy i think it would take years to get anywhere,if at all.


----------



## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Whilst I do agree and totally understand with people's comments about not trusting a stranger with such specialised animals, its a little unfair to the op what is being implied- that academic qualifications don't really 'count'. Sure hands on experience as a keeper yourself will always be best, but if that were the case, what would the op do with their own primates while 'sitting' for others'.
Ultimately, I would have to agree that it will take years to build up a reliable reputation, though, but as the op says they will be catering for other animals, its just that primates are their main interest so no harm in offering the service.
I run a boarding service and have had literally all sorts left with me over the years (nothing I didn't have experience in mind) but only recently have I actually advertised that I can take (certain) 'exotics'. Easily 95 per cent of my boarders I get through word of mouth, and it was a VERY slow start.
Main problem I think the op may have at the beginning is any primate related jobs, would likely come from the sort that keep alone/in a parrot cage/in a nappy (urgh!!) so not sure how this would help reputation..


----------



## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

5plusmany said:


> Whilst I do agree and totally understand with people's comments about not trusting a stranger with such specialised animals, its a little unfair to the op what is being implied- that academic qualifications don't really 'count'. Sure hands on experience as a keeper yourself will always be best, but if that were the case, what would the op do with their own primates while 'sitting' for others'.
> Ultimately, I would have to agree that it will take years to build up a reliable reputation, though, but as the op says they will be catering for other animals, its just that primates are their main interest so no harm in offering the service.
> I run a boarding service and have had literally all sorts left with me over the years (nothing I didn't have experience in mind) but only recently have I actually advertised that I can take (certain) 'exotics'. Easily 95 per cent of my boarders I get through word of mouth, and it was a VERY slow start.
> Main problem I think the op may have at the beginning is any primate related jobs, would likely come from the sort that keep alone/in a parrot cage/in a nappy (urgh!!) so not sure how this would help reputation..


Understand what you say.

But theres knowing what to do and being able to do it.


Like i said it would maybe be fine for folk with a pair or a troop etc.

I have several different species here.
Over 40 primates.

Not including what is on exhibit elsewhere.

Reading from a book or college papers wouldnt suffice me going away and being comfortable with them being looked after.

They are all different and if it was just a matter of throwing in a bannana or bunch of grapes then fine.

But they are more complex than that...

Other keepers the same as me would never dream of using someone like this.

Its a full time job.
And commiting too it meant that holidays would be a no go...

What if pregnancy or births were iminant.
Wouldnt trust nobody with cases like that.

Had two dead common babys at friends once.
He had a pair and thats how we met.

He called and we went up...
Put so called dead babys in hands and blew and thay are both with his troop today..

Only experiance would tell that...

So agree but dissagree..

Look at Mrs Cronnin.
Fine example of doctorate in primatolagy..

CHIMPS ETC GREAT.
SMALLER AND NOT A CLUE..


----------



## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Understand what you say.
> 
> But theres knowing what to do and being able to do it.
> 
> ...


Yes can totally understand it would be different for you.
We haven't been away for years, and don't have anything as demanding and complex to look after. But others may well be happy to leave theirs, and someone with both education and work experience is not a bad choice in my opinion. Still agree though that such a business would take a lot of reputation building :2thumb:


----------



## kiania (Feb 19, 2011)

5plusmany said:


> Main problem I think the op may have at the beginning is any primate related jobs, would likely come from the sort that keep alone/in a parrot cage/in a nappy (urgh!!) so not sure how this would help reputation..


One of the benefits of doing it 'for myself' rather than for strict profit, is the ability to turn down work. The book I've been reading has made mutterings about legit pet sitters not being able to work outside of the Animal Welfare Act.
In short, there is absolutely no flipping way I'd want anything to do with primates in nappies/parrot cages. Primates alone, I'd consider on a case-by-case, but there would have to be a particularly strong reason for that individual being kept alone - we had a spider monkey, Travis, at the place I did my Internship in the US. He was an ex-pet, and so had been castrated and had a fair few teeth pulled out (plus was a right old softy), they'd tried putting him in with others, but he got bullied ridiculously badly. So he was in the enclosure next to the food prep and wash up area (the latter outside in front of him), and he got at least an hour per day min of full-contact human company (mostly he sat on the person and farted horrendously  ).
But this is the US - I am against the 'cuddly' pet monkey (which intelligent, educated person isn't?), and the things that monkey breeders over there consider acceptable (removing fingers/toes, removing teeth, removing parts/all of the tail) for the new owners is, quite frankly, horrific.

So, in short...I plan to fully reserve the right to decline jobs where the animal (whatever species, primate or no) is not being kept to reasonable standards. I appreciate not everyone gives their pets (at least in the UK) as much space as I give mine (e.g. using Nimh (obv. not a primate  ) for reference, most common cage is 55x39x27cm. She's currently in 91.5x33x40cm, and I'm in the process of finishing off my detolf which will be 163x43x37cm). But the same applies to daft social groups and monkey-nappies (not to mention that I have animals instead of kids - and never ever ever want to deal with nappies  ). Although primate poo...fun stuff. Just the containment that makes me shudder in horror. And the 20+ years of life with nappy rash - what kind of person does that to a creature.

...well, that went rambly 

As for Peter, to be perfectly honest, if you did call me up and asked for my service, I would turn you down. Nothing personal, but I am not equipped for 40 species (and however many groups). Not to say I wouldn't love to learn, but I am not stupid, I know what I have the skills to manage. My most was 24 marmosets and tamarins, mostly in pair groups, except with one singles and one triple. Mix of ex-lab and ex-pet, some well adjusted (and highly pair bonded and good at tag-team grabbing and peeing on the humans), some human-orientated. But that was mostly two species (plus 3 individuals that weren't, so 4 species in total). It was where I discovered I actually like the smell of marmosets (and got called 'strange' for admitting such  ), and discovered that tamarins are my favourite 

The point being, I know where my limits are, and I'm talking probably a max of four groups of non-breeding individuals. And if it wasn't a species I was familiar with, I'd be pulling out the bookshelf load of primate books I have here to read up - and whatever the species, would expect a couple of sheets of A4 for procedure. Where I am at the moment, each person does things slightly differently, and they all work in the same department and were trained by the same person. Let alone a field I haven't worked before in (private, non-sanctuary sector).

Reputation building is something that can happen slowly. I'm in no rush. Ironically, the only job I've been to interview-status that offered it to me due to my academic qualifications (rather than experience) was in the US in a state that considers my pets to be illegal, so I couldn't take it. In the UK, it is all experience.

And on that note, any private collectors in the Surrey/Hants area in about 3 months time, who wants a freebie mucking-out help is welcome to hit me up. I've never been around the intelligent private collection primates, and novelty is good, not to mention extremely interesting


----------

