# Newbie thinking aloud!



## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Was just wondering if a Ball python is a good starter snake? Was talking to someone at work today, they sell reptiles but I am learning about them at the mo, and they said they are the ideal "first" snake. Would like to know what other more experienced people think. What size enclosure would it need eventually? Would it be best to keep it in a RUB? Just thinking aloud..............


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Was just wondering if a Ball python is a good starter snake? Was talking to someone at work today, they sell reptiles but I am learning about them at the mo, and they said they are the ideal "first" snake. Would like to know what other more experienced people think. What size enclosure would it need eventually? Would it be best to keep it in a RUB? Just thinking aloud..............


They make great starters, apart from they sometimes have feeding problems, however if the set-up is correct it should be fine.

I would put an adult royal in nothing smaller than a 4x2x2, in my opinion, rubs are fine to start off a royal in, i tend to say a viv is fine for a hatchling corn or colubrid, but with a royal perhaps start in a rub.


A corn snake on the other hand is a great alternative, a 3 foot viv will do them for life, no feeding problems if set-up is correct and they eat like lions.


PK


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

pk93 said:


> They make great starters, apart from they sometimes have feeding problems, however if the set-up is correct it should be fine.
> 
> I would put an adult royal in nothing smaller than a 4x2x2, in my opinion, rubs are fine to start off a royal in, i tend to say a viv is fine for a hatchling corn or colubrid, but with a royal perhaps start in a rub.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I was thinking along those lines with the rubs to begin with as I have read a few posts about Royals but was told today they would be fine in a large high viv so wanted to double check. We sell reptiles where I work, I am in the clinic so have nothing to don't have too much to do with actually selling the animals, but want to make sure i am giving the best advice when I do!!


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Thanks, I was thinking along those lines with the rubs to begin with as I have read a few posts about Royals but was told today they would be fine in a large high viv so wanted to double check. We sell reptiles where I work, I am in the clinic so have nothing to do with giving husbandry advice so can be a bit tricky sometimes, but want to make sure best advice is being given out!


I wouldn't put a royal straight into a 4 footer.

PK


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

There's no problem in a putting a hatchling royal in a viv aslong as there is lots of cover ie hides, fake plants, branches ect...
I seem to say this alot but royal dont mind large spaces aslong as its secuire...


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Alex Boswell said:


> There's no problem in a putting a hatchling royal in a viv aslong as there is lots of cover ie hides, fake plants, branches ect...
> I seem to say this alot but royal dont mind large spaces aslong as its secuire...


What about the theory they get stressed and stop eating?


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Alex Boswell said:


> There's no problem in a putting a hatchling royal in a viv aslong as there is lots of cover ie hides, fake plants, branches ect...
> I seem to say this alot but royal dont mind large spaces aslong as its secuire...


It would be freaked out.

Could get away with a 3, no way a 4.

Could be wrong.

PK


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> What about the theory they get stressed and stop eating?


That could apply when people put them in enclosures with only newspaper and a dogs bowl but not when they have multiple hides, fake plants, branches ect...
I know Other people will back me up on this one :2thumb:


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> It would be freaked out.
> 
> Could get away with a 3, no way a 4.
> 
> ...


Is this based on your personal experiences or what you have heard?


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

In other words try and keep the habitat as realistic as possible??


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> In other words try and keep the habitat as realistic as possible??


basically, Just make sure you make him feel secure with various different hiding places ect...
If you want you can house if in a rub when younger if its easier for you but I was just proving a point that royals dont mind large spaces aslong as they have a secure setup.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

I think its a general consensus that royals do better in smaller enclosures, there's been many a thread on here saying "why wont my royal eat" and its mainly down to the size of the enclosure, and feeling insecure. 

The best way to combat this is to use RUBS, its simple, you may have a few royals that are fine in 4 footers, crammed with hides and foliage. 

Its either or in my opinion, its just advice that is generally agreed upon. 

Hatchling royals to rubs ratio and royals to viv ratios, would suggest more people keep young royals in rubs, this making it "the norm".


That is what my advice is based on.

Cheers

PK


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> I think its a general consensus that royals do better in smaller enclosures, there's been many a thread on here saying "why wont my royal eat" and its mainly down to the size of the enclosure, and feeling insecure.
> 
> The best way to combat this is to use RUBS, its simple, you may have a few royals that are fine in 4 footers, crammed with hides and foliage.
> 
> ...


Im not really going to say anything as I know I will start an argument and its been a long day for me today so I cant be bothered having a debate.
No offence but saying royals do better and only like small enclosures is the worst advice you could give IMO. Thats all I have to say.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Alex Boswell said:


> Im not really going to say anything as I know I will start an argument and its been a long day for me today so I cant be bothered having a debate.
> No offence but saying royals do better and only like small enclosures is the worst advice you could give IMO. Thats all I have to say.


Not sure where that came from.

An argument? i see this as mild debate, if you have some information i rather hear it, its the only way to learn.

PK


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> Not sure where that came from.
> 
> An argument? i see this as mild debate, if you have some information i rather hear it, its the only way to learn.
> 
> PK


I didn't mean me and you having an argument, I meant It will lead other people getting involved and more than likely start an argument. 
Could I ask what setups you keep your royals in, and how do they feed ect...
As to say royals do better in small setups is ridiculious.


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Alex Boswell said:


> I didn't mean me and you having an argument, I meant It will lead other people getting involved and more than likely start an argument.
> Could I ask what setups you keep your royals in, and how do they feed ect...
> As to say royals do better in small setups is ridiculious.


Yikes! Didn't know the subject is so sensitive! it is good to hear both sides though, that way people can make a more informed decision. I have read lots of threads where people are saying their royal will only eat whilst in rubs but also wonder how they cope in the wild. Do they find a little hide and hide out until large enough to fend for themselves? Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire but it is very interesting for newbie like myself to hear all views


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

I will post it again

Hatchling royal in 4x2









Let this do the talking


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Yikes! Didn't know the subject is so sensitive! it is good to hear both sides though, that way people can make a more informed decision. I have read lots of threads where people are saying their royal will only eat whilst in rubs but also wonder how they cope in the wild. Do they find a little hide and hide out until large enough to fend for themselves? Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire but it is very interesting for newbie like myself to hear all views


Some people just assume they just like small space there fore put them In tiny tubs, I have no problem with keeping them in tubs but aslong as their at a sufficent size.
Im just waiting for people to back me up that royals do fine in 3-4 foot vivs...


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you mstypical :2thumb:


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Alex Boswell said:


> Thank you mstypical :2thumb:


I aim to please. Well, not really but you know what I mean


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

I guess there really is no wrong or right way,just what is best for your particular snake? Would a miserable snake eat if it was unhappy in a rub and visa versa? Its all really interesting stuff! Is keeping them in rubs a new thing or is it something that people have been doing for a while?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Yikes! Didn't know the subject is so sensitive! it is good to hear both sides though, that way people can make a more informed decision. I have read lots of threads where people are saying their royal will only eat whilst in rubs but also wonder how they cope in the wild. *Do they find a little hide and hide out until large enough to fend for themselves?* Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire but it is very interesting for newbie like myself to hear all views


 
That's exactly what they do. But, remember, these snakes are captive bred (hopefully) and have never, ever experienced 'the wild'. They may or may not become accustomed to what you provide for them, who knows.

I have a baby royal in a 4x2 (see above pic), and a boa below in another viv. Next to that, a double stack with Leos and a corn snake. They are in the front room which has the most 'action', and on top of the viv unit is my stereo, a very nice Wharfedale. My snakes appear unaffected by noise, vibrations, people, whatever. However I don't bother them constantly, handle them 10 times a day and generally be a kid about owning them either. I think this is the way forward :2thumb:


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> I guess there really is no wrong or right way,just what is best for your particular snake? Would a miserable snake eat if it was unhappy in a rub and visa versa? Its all really interesting stuff! Is keeping them in rubs a new thing or is it something that people have been doing for a while?


Exactly! Whatever iworks for the paticular snake! But to say royals only like small enclosures is ridiculious to say the least!
A snake cant really get miserable as their not like humans, they dont have feelings. But since a royal will do fine in a viv aslong as its a secure setup they will have more room to exercise, thermoregulate ect... Therefore benefiting the snake...


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

mstypical said:


> That's exactly what they do. But, remember, these snakes are captive bred (hopefully) and have never, ever experienced 'the wild'. They may or may not become accustomed to what you provide for them, who knows.


They will have their natural instincts which might explain why they like to feel secure hence eating well when in rubs, but they aren't given the option of popping out to explore if they feel like it! I think I am warming to the idea of 4ft x 2ft :lol2:


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Alex Boswell said:


> I didn't mean me and you having an argument, I meant It will lead other people getting involved and more than likely start an argument.
> Could I ask what setups you keep your royals in, and how do they feed ect...
> As to say royals do better in small setups is ridiculious.


I don't keep royals.

However i have researched royals for best part of a year, i went to many a reptile shop, and asked many a question on keeping royals, 90% of people i actually know who keep royals also had the same experience. A quick google search will throw up that keeping a royal in a RUB is more successful.

Now what people have to decide is are they going to go with isolated or mass experience?

I fail to see how keeping a few royals in a viv like that proves its the same with all royals? 


Yes, you keep a royal in a viv, but thousands of people's snakes have not fed in a vivarium. However, will feed in a rub, or smaller vivarium.

If a few snakes weren't eating in a vivarium, it would be put down to individuals, but it wasn't masses of royal pythons weren't eating in large enclosures. Hence its the advised thing to do. 

Just out of interest how many hatchling royals do you and Mstypical keep in 4 foot vivs?


It is interesting though if times are changing and most royals will eat in large vivs due to mass captive breeding.


PK


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

pk93 said:


> I don't keep royals.
> 
> However i have researched royals for best part of a year, i went to many a reptile shop, and asked many a question on keeping royals, 90% of people i actually know who keep royals also had the same experience. A quick google search will throw up that keeping a royal in a RUB is more successful.
> 
> ...


Personally, one, as my signature clearly shows. Mine wouldn't eat in a plastic tub as I could not get the temps stable. She never fed in a plastic box, she eats every single week in the viv. That's all I need to know. I think if you dig a bit deeper into all these 'my royal won't eat in a viv' cases, lots of other stuff is wrong; set up, husbandry, etc. I know, as I have gone out to people (some members from here who can vouch for me) and helped them correct it. Snakes now eat.


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

pk93 said:


> I don't keep royals.
> 
> However i have researched royals for best part of a year, i went to many a reptile shop, and asked many a question on keeping royals, 90% of people i actually know who keep royals also had the same experience. A quick google search will throw up that keeping a royal in a RUB is more successful.
> 
> ...


Ok I'm going to sound like a geek so forgive me! By captive breeding we are selective breeding (hopefully) Breeding from snakes that are even tempered, good eaters etc some of this surely would be passed on by genetics, so........... maybe times are changing? Darwins theory? Just an idea!


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Ok I'm going to sound like a geek so forgive me! By captive breeding we are selective breeding (hopefully) Breeding from snakes that are even tempered, good eaters etc some of this surely would be passed on by genetics, so........... maybe times are changing? Darwins theory? Just an idea!


No we're not, people are still breeding snakes that were fussy hatchlings, have deformities and known neurological issues, temperament is not considered when matching potential 'parent' snakes.


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Getting back to the question, are rubs a new thing or have been used for a while?


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> I don't keep royals.
> 
> However i have researched royals for best part of a year, i went to many a reptile shop, and asked many a question on keeping royals, 90% of people i actually know who keep royals also had the same experience. A quick google search will throw up that keeping a royal in a RUB is more successful.
> 
> ...


I think your missing the point, I said royals do perfectly fine in large viv ASLONG AS ITS A SECURE SETUP I.E MULTIPLE HIDES, PLANTS, BRANCHES ECT...
The majority of people who say their royals dont feed in vivs is because they have their setup all wrong - husbrandry, temps, ect...
I currently own 5 royals, 4 of which I got as a hatchling and went into vivs - ate fine and growing great : victory:


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

mstypical said:


> No we're not, people are still breeding snakes that were fussy hatchlings, have deformities and known neurological issues, temperament is not considered when matching potential 'parent' snakes.


I'll stick to dog breeding then!:lol2:


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

mstypical said:


> Personally, one, as my signature clearly shows. Mine wouldn't eat in a plastic tub as I could not get the temps stable. She never fed in a plastic box, she eats every single week in the viv. That's all I need to know. I think if you dig a bit deeper into all these 'my royal won't eat in a viv' cases, lots of other stuff is wrong; set up, husbandry, etc. I know, as I have gone out to people (some members from here who can vouch for me) and helped them correct it. Snakes now eat.



Why if it works for you should it work for everyone else?

You can't possibly think 100% out of one subject would apply for everyone else.

So between you, you have less than 1% of royals in captivity in Britain. 

And Alex they are great odds, another couple hundred and people may start to change there mind.

Its great that you both have royals that do fine in large vivs, maybe the tides are changing.

But there's nothing "ridiculous" about stating the obvious.

I much rather advise someone to buy a rub until its bigger, than buy a 4 foot viv, have feeding problems then have to buy rubs/heat-mat. Its just common sense.


PK


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

pk93 said:


> I much rather advise someone to buy a rub until its bigger, than buy a 4 foot viv, have feeding problems then have to buy rubs/heat-mat. Its just common sense.


Fair point. :hmm:


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> Why if it works for you should it work for everyone else?
> 
> You can't possibly think 100% out of one subject would apply for everyone else.
> 
> ...


You have no experience in them Whats so ever, knowing things about them and actually having experience in keeping them are to completely different things. I may know quite a bit about burmese pythons but since i dont own one i consider owners alot more experienced and knowledeable then me. How can you advice people about royals when you dont own a royal?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

pk93 said:


> Why if it works for you should it work for everyone else?
> 
> You can't possibly think 100% out of one subject would apply for everyone else.
> 
> ...


No, but I have 100% more royals than yourself. I did not state you were 'ridiculous', please keep comments aimed at myself and Alex separate. I know of plenty of other royals kept in 4ft vivs who do well, I wasn't asked about this at any point. Maybe we should all advise only about what we have experience of.


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Alex Boswell said:


> You have no experience in them Whats so ever, knowing things about them and actually having experience in keeping them are to completely different things. I may know quite a bit about burmese pythons but since i dont own one i consider owners alot more experienced and knowledeable then me. How can you advice people about royals when you dont own a royal?


Didn't say i did have any experience, i really do think you are missing the point.

Saying you have to own a royal to know anything about them is being petty and ill informed.

A royal is hardly a trivial thing to own, you should of taken other peoples "experience" and not just gambled and put a hatchling in a viv.

Luckily it worked out for you. I really do think you are wallowing in your own self-importance, just because you own one you are right?

I have said it worked out for you, but hasn't for others.

I don't know how to get that point across any clearer.

Advising a rub was the sensible thing to do, i thought you would of seen that.

PK


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Another http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/774941-royal-viv-finished.html


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

pk93 said:


> Didn't say i did have any experience, i really do think you are missing the point.
> 
> Saying you have to own a royal to know anything about them is being petty and ill informed.
> 
> ...


1. I didn't say you have to own a royal to know things about them, i said someone who owns a royal(s) has more experience in them then you.

2. Royals do fine in vivs aslong as their setup is correct - Thats the thing you dont understand.

3. I didn't gamble, i spoke to royal owners/breeders with years of experience and they told me security is key and thats what i Did, made their setup secure :2thumb:


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

mstypical said:


> Another http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/774941-royal-viv-finished.html



Thats a perfect example of creating a secure setup...


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks, i will definitely read that, just not tonight, i am pretty tired.

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. You are both right, they can work given proper attention and the right snake.

: victory:

PK


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

pk93 said:


> Thanks, i will definitely read that, just not tonight, i am pretty tired.
> 
> Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. You are both right, they can work given proper attention and the right snake.
> 
> ...


I'm not ruffled : victory:


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## cadno (Sep 4, 2011)

Alex Boswell said:


> That could apply when people put them in enclosures with only newspaper and a dogs bowl but not when they have multiple hides, fake plants, branches ect...
> I know Other people will back me up on this one :2thumb:


From personal experience and not only my own they do quite well in a 4'x18x18 even as hatchlings! As said, providing you put PLENTY of cover and places to hide they literally thrive. I've watched two Royals grow up in this size viv and both grew to be very healthy adults who for Royals are highly curious. 

I have seen Royals freak, but that is due to lack of hiding places, not the size of the viv. I had the same misconception for many years but when I thought about it, what do they do in the wild?

Anyway, I've now put my large size 10 boot in it and I'm now going to run away giggling insanely in the hope people don't follow!

Rich


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

cadno said:


> From personal experience and not only my own they do quite well in a 4'x18x18 even as hatchlings! As said, providing you put PLENTY of cover and places to hide they literally thrive. I've watched two Royals grow up in this size viv and both grew to be very healthy adults who for Royals are highly curious.
> 
> I have seen Royals freak, but that is due to lack of hiding places, not the size of the viv. I had the same misconception for many years but when I thought about it, what do they do in the wild?
> 
> ...



Mstypical, care to comment?


:lol2:

PK


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## cadno (Sep 4, 2011)

lol, yes I just noticed how late in the debate I am, teach me for not looking at how many pages had gone by! I may now be beaten with a stick and paraded through the streets for amusement!

Rich


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

mstypical said:


> Another http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/774941-royal-viv-finished.html





cadno said:


> From personal experience and not only my own they do quite well in a 4'x18x18 even as hatchlings! As said, providing you put PLENTY of cover and places to hide they literally thrive. I've watched two Royals grow up in this size viv and both grew to be very healthy adults who for Royals are highly curious.
> 
> I have seen Royals freak, but that is due to lack of hiding places, not the size of the viv. I had the same misconception for many years but when I thought about it, what do they do in the wild?
> 
> ...


Thank you! Royals Like large space ASLONG as theres lots of coverage and hiding places Like you said. It makes my blood boil when people assume they dont Like large spaces
Just from stereotypes :devil:


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Yikes! Didn't know the subject is so sensitive! it is good to hear both sides though, that way people can make a more informed decision.* I have read lots of threads where people are saying their royal will only eat whilst in rubs but also wonder how they cope in the wild.* Do they find a little hide and hide out until large enough to fend for themselves? Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire but it is very interesting for newbie like myself to hear all views





mstypical said:


> *That's exactly what they do. But, remember, these snakes are captive bred (hopefully) and have never, ever experienced 'the wild'. They may or may not become accustomed to what you provide for them, who knows.*
> 
> I have a baby royal in a 4x2 (see above pic), and a boa below in another viv. Next to that, a double stack with Leos and a corn snake. They are in the front room which has the most 'action', and on top of the viv unit is my stereo, a very nice Wharfedale. My snakes appear unaffected by noise, vibrations, people, whatever. However I don't bother them constantly, handle them 10 times a day and generally be a kid about owning them either. I think this is the way forward :2thumb:





cadno said:


> From personal experience and not only my own they do quite well in a 4'x18x18 even as hatchlings! As said, providing you put PLENTY of cover and places to hide they literally thrive. I've watched two Royals grow up in this size viv and both grew to be very healthy adults who for Royals are highly curious.
> 
> I have seen Royals freak, but that is due to lack of hiding places, not the size of the viv. *I had the same misconception for many years but when I thought about it, what do they do in the wild?*
> 
> ...





pk93 said:


> Mstypical, care to comment?
> 
> 
> :lol2:
> ...


I did :Na_Na_Na_Na:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/880157-wild-your-thoughts.html


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## stevenlisa24 (Jun 17, 2012)

wow such a big debate over what is essentially 12inch of length! 33/50 litre rubs are ideal. 9l for a hatchling . 18 for a juvenile most breeders use this on a rack. i have vivs also. hope i own enough royals to qualify on the debate.

and if not well tough.

take care 
Steve


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

stevenlisa24 said:


> wow such a big debate over what is essentially 12inch of length! 33/50 litre rubs are ideal. 9l for a hatchling . 18 for a juvenile most breeders use this on a rack. i have vivs also. hope i own enough royals to qualify on the debate.
> 
> and if not well tough.
> 
> ...


What size vivs, and how do you decide who goes in a RUB and who goes in a viv?


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

stevenlisa24 said:


> wow such a big debate over what is essentially 12inch of length! *33/50 litre rubs are ideal*. 9l for a hatchling . 18 for a juvenile most breeders use this on a rack. i have vivs also. hope i own enough royals to qualify on the debate.
> 
> and if not well tough.
> 
> ...


That really depends on the size of the royal... What weight of the royals do you keep in each size?


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## stevenlisa24 (Jun 17, 2012)

sorry i will not be drawn into a debate, argument, bitch fight. dress it up as you like. 

some people on here only see their side and will argue to the 
death and put everyone else who wants to comment off. its a shame really as the OP only asked a quick question and other have ruined the post.

So OP it really doesnt matter RUB or viv big viv = lots of hides. rub=one hide i'd put money on the fact that if you temps and humidity are also ok your snake will feed.

take care
Steve


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## stevenlisa24 (Jun 17, 2012)

oh and Alex length and width on both sizes are the same the extra 17l comes in height. its personal preference royals are not aboreal. and only tend to climb towards heat bulbs when cold. so adults i put 33l some prefer 50l.

take care 
Steve.


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## Alex Boswell (Apr 15, 2012)

stevenlisa24 said:


> sorry i will not be drawn into a debate, argument, bitch fight. dress it up as you like.
> 
> some people on here only see their side and will argue to the
> death and put everyone else who wants to comment off. its a shame really as the OP only asked a quick question and other have ruined the post.
> ...


The OP asked for our opinion and we all gave it obviously not all of us have the same opinion hence a mild debate. Thats the way I see it. 
Yes I know 50L and 33L has the same floor space I was asking what weights do you consider a royal to be too 'large' for those paticular tubs as Im curious :whistling2:
P.S I have no problem with tubs as Im planning on building a rack in the near future (hence the question) but I will still get tubs that are similar sized to the vivs They currently live in.


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Phew! A lot of things to think about! What do you guys think about this as a "starter" tank for a Ball hatchling? Be nice!!!!!:notworthy:


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

stevenlisa24 said:


> sorry i will not be drawn into a debate, argument, bitch fight. dress it up as you like.
> 
> some people on here only see their side and will argue to the
> death and put everyone else who wants to comment off. its a shame really as the OP only asked a quick question and other have ruined the post.
> ...


I don't see there was any need for this. There was no argument or 'bitch fight', you came along after the conversation was done and started it again, with incomplete answers. You have not answered the original question at all, just threw a facts about your own royals in there. One hide in a RUB? Hot or cold side, out of interest?


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Phew! A lot of things to think about! What do you guys think about this as a "starter" tank for a Ball hatchling? Be nice!!!!!:notworthy:


I would tell you if there was a link.....

: victory:

PK


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

pk93 said:


> I would tell you if there was a link.....
> 
> : victory:
> 
> PK


If I had brains I would be dangerous!!! Herp Habitat


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> If I had brains I would be dangerous!!! Herp Habitat


I don't like it, a 50L RUb is £15 in Argos and with the other tenner you could get it kitted out (if you want to start it in something small, that is).


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## pk93 (Jan 26, 2010)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> If I had brains I would be dangerous!!! Herp Habitat


What a money spinner.

Just buy a rub.

PK


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## BanksyAndAmy (Aug 30, 2012)

Thanks for feedback guys, not 100% sure of the right way to go as yet, but always good to know how to save money!


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Thanks for feedback guys, not 100% sure of the right way to go as yet, but always good to know how to save money!


Another couple of quid would get you this

Vivexotic LX24 Vivarium Walnut 24 inch - Vivariums - Housing - Blue Lizard Reptiles - Reptile Shop

Or even a 2nd hand 3/4ft viv


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## cadno (Sep 4, 2011)

BanksyAndAmy said:


> Thanks for feedback guys, not 100% sure of the right way to go as yet, but always good to know how to save money!


I'm never one for saving money lol, can't help myself but to spend on stuff I often don't need! 

Anyway, my comment about that herp habitat, not too fussed, can't quite put a finger on why but to me it just doesn't look like A) its worth the money or B) is actually any better than a RUB.

Keep firing away on the questions though, its pretty clear you want this right first time around and ensure a smooth start in life for your Royal. If it was me, money not being an issue, I'd start with a small viv like the vivexotic range mentioned and just enlarge when the time comes. Ok, its pricey but when you think that your thermometers, thermostat, bulb holder (depending on setup) all transfer to the new viv, its actually not that bad. Just means you need a bigger heat emitter lol. 

Just my thoughts, in reality I'd just go large and cover it in hiding places, but as you've seen here, its divided in opinion and ultimately you need to go with the setup you believe offers the best start for your Royal.

Rich


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