# Betta is lethargic and has a bump on top of body :(



## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

I think it might be a tumor. Can anyone give me more information on this? He was fine before but tonight he has been very sluggish, can't seem to get to the surface of the water and is swimming very slowly. The lump is under the skin, the scales over it are stretched. It's currently about 5mm long by about 3mm high, and is on top of his body in front of the top fin.
Help!
The tank is an 8gal, heated and filtered, steady low levels, shared with 6 pygmy cories and some unwelcome little snails, if it's any help.


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## matthew_harwood (Mar 12, 2005)

you really need to try to get a picture if you can of the effected fish and possibly a close up of the issue

matt


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

I will get a picture of him tonight so you can see. He looks completely normal, just with a little raised bit.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Pics - as you can see it's the same colour as the rest of his body and looks like he's had a classic cartoon bonk on the head.
He's a lot more active today and is behaving normally, not sure if he was just tired the other day.
He's quite hard to get good photos of him as the camera is apparently a very scary big black thing and he swims away from it XD


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

he looks old...


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

HABU said:


> he looks old...


I've had him about a year so he's really not that old at all. He was tiny when I got him. The camera has washed out the colours a lot so he looks rather dull here!


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Snailgirl said:


> I've had him about a year so he's really not that old at all. He was tiny when I got him. The camera has washed out the colours a lot so he looks rather dull here!


A year is quite old for a Betta Splendens male i`d say he will be going home in the the next month or two.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Graylord said:


> A year is quite old for a Betta Splendens male i`d say he will be going home in the the next month or two.


What on earth makes you say that? First of all you're not helping me at all by saying what the lump could be, and the rest of the internet seems to think otherwise.
Lifespan of a Betta Fish says 3-5
Answers.com - What is the average life span of a betta fish says 6-7
Betta Life Span: Increase it with these Simple Tips | bettafishhome.com says 2-3
How Long Do Bettas Live? says 3
Betta Fish Care Guide | Betta Fish Lifespan says 2-3
Betta Fish Life Span - How Long Do Betta Fish Typically Live For? says 2-6
Betta Fish Lifespan | Make your betta live longer says 2-3

I love my betta, he has been very well kept, his tank is mature and well filtered, he has lots of space, is fed on specialised betta pellets and the occasional treat of a bit of soft algae wafer broken off from the rest or bits of bloodworm pellets. What you're suggesting is really quite upsetting for me.
Sure, a betta in a bowl without a heater or filterer may only make it a year, but all of this information is contradictory.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

being an experienced fishkeeper makes him say that. splendens is one of the lobger lived Beta. 2 years is quite old.
it does look old.
if i'm right, it could be a wound, which has become infected.
do fish get a form of cancer? it may be the big C


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Snailgirl said:


> I've had him about a year so he's really not that old at all. He was tiny when I got him. The camera has washed out the colours a lot so he looks rather dull here!


also, you forget the fish could have been up 7 months old when you got him at a shop.

i agree with, he looks old and may be on his last legs.
being old will make it more open to any problems.


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

spinnin_tom said:


> if i'm right, it could be a wound, which has become infected.
> do fish get a form of cancer? it may be the big C


All animals get neoplasia, yes. 

It could be a huge list of things - cyst, abscess, granuloma-type reaction, neoplasia (ie cancer) whether that be malignant or benign, haematoma, some sort of hernia or prolapsed tissue...

I'd agree it's mostly likely neoplasia, perhaps an abscess or infection-reaction. No one can tell from a picture, it needs a needle sticking into it and/or removal. It is possible, if you're really interested contact a vets and see if they are able to do it. But of course being such a small and exotic animal there are likely to be more risks involved and no treatment might be possible either way.


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## HerpvetUK (Aug 24, 2009)

Snailgirl said:


> I think it might be a tumor. Can anyone give me more information on this? He was fine before but tonight he has been very sluggish, can't seem to get to the surface of the water and is swimming very slowly. The lump is under the skin, the scales over it are stretched. It's currently about 5mm long by about 3mm high, and is on top of his body in front of the top fin.
> Help!
> The tank is an 8gal, heated and filtered, steady low levels, shared with 6 pygmy cories and some unwelcome little snails, if it's any help.


Hi,

There are various possibilities - abscess or tumour as already mentioned would be the two main ones of course.

The only way to get more information on the lesion would be to get it examined, and possibly appropriate samples taken, by a vet. Anaesthesia would probably be necessary for these, which of course involves some risk to the fish in itself.

Failing this you could look at treating with antibiotics on the chance that might work. Either way, I would suggest you get the fish to a vet.

Hope you can get him sorted out.

Bruce.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

HerpvetUK said:


> Hi,
> 
> There are various possibilities - abscess or tumour as already mentioned would be the two main ones of course.
> 
> ...


it would cost a lot of money.
simple solution:
clove oil + fish = quick, relatovely painless death


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> it would cost a lot of money.
> simple solution:
> clove oil + fish = quick, relatovely painless death


But... he's so healthy otherwise? Why does he need euthanising when he doesn't seem to be in any pain? He's active, inquisitive and eating well now!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Snailgirl said:


> But... he's so healthy otherwise? Why does he need euthanising when he doesn't seem to be in any pain? He's active, inquisitive and eating well now!


you'd be surprised. fish are probably the best animals at masking pain. if you really love it enough to spend what i can imagine a lot of money st the vet, they won't know what to do as well as say cats.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> you'd be surprised. fish are probably the best animals at masking pain. if you really love it enough to spend what i can imagine a lot of money st the vet, they won't know what to do as well as say cats.


Well is there any way to tell? I don't want to put him down when he's just got a bump on his head but is otherwise healthy. For all I know it could be a non-cancerous tumor. I know my fish and he's acting completely normal, surely if he was in pain he'd be a lot more sluggish and lingering near the bottom of the tank.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Snailgirl said:


> Well is there any way to tell? I don't want to put him down when he's just got a bump on his head but is otherwise healthy. For all I know it could be a non-cancerous tumor. I know my fish and he's acting completely normal, surely if he was in pain he'd be a lot more sluggish and lingering near the bottom of the tank.


no there isn't an awful many ways to tell.
like i said.. masking pain etc.
it looks most likely that it is a cancerous tumour though


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Snailgirl said:


> Well is there any way to tell? I don't want to put him down when he's just got a bump on his head but is otherwise healthy. For all I know it could be a non-cancerous tumor. I know my fish and he's acting completely normal, surely if he was in pain he'd be a lot more sluggish and lingering near the bottom of the tank.



If he is still eating heartily then i`d just leave him be.
If however his scales start to distend and has a lack of appetite then i would euthanize .

Eruptions to the skin are common in old fish as their immune system is starting to break down.However i`m a great believer that if a fish is eating well then they should be allowed to carry on with their lives.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Hate to say it hun, but it could be old age  some are up to a year old when sold, but if your little guy was tiny when you got him, then hopefully not. Just be prepared just incase  
My best advice short of finding a specialist vet and spending a lot of money would be to keep on top of the water changes, make sure the water is always pristine and keep an eye out for any signs that he's in pain, or not eating before thinking about euthanasia at all. Do you keep an almond leaf in with him? they have great antibacterial properties and are just good for betta in general. Melafix and pimafix are herbal, so much gentler on the the system if you do want to medicate. But they leave an oily film on the surface, so I'm dubious about using them for betta tbh. Some places say use half doses and it's fine, so you might want to research them and see what you think. I use waterlife's myaxzin or protozin on mine if they catch anything, but I wouldn't use them unless you can find out what it is, they aren't gentle meds at all. 
I can't help with what the lump is I'm afraid, I've never seen anything like it on any of my betta. The only thing I can think of is he's bumped himself and got it infected, but that's really just a guess I'm afraid.
Good luck!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

+1 on the water changes, indian almond leaves and distended stomach. being like he is, it will be more vulnerable to drospy and any other condition caused by even the slightest ammonia spikes tec


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys. His fins are looking a bit clamped today. Will try and keep him as comfortable and healthy as possible until he stops eating.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Good luck with him! Keeping him comfy is defo the best thing to do 

I know it's horrid, but if you think he is suffering in the future, you're welcome to pm me and I can find you a really good article I have on euthanasia.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the support  Doing twice weekly WCs, just bought him some frozen bloodworms and ordered some indian almond leaves. He's still eating like a pig


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Brill 
I use the leaves in halves or 1/4s depending on the size of the tank. Make sure you give them a rinse first too, depending on where you got them they sometimes need it.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i use garlic sometimes for things...


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Christie_ZXR said:


> Brill
> I use the leaves in halves or 1/4s depending on the size of the tank. Make sure you give them a rinse first too, depending on where you got them they sometimes need it.


His tank is about 27L, how many do you think I will need for it? I ordered 5 



HABU said:


> i use garlic sometimes for things...


Things? Could you be any more vague?


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Have a look here for some more info:

Using Indian almond leaves in aquariums

I'd personally use about 1/2 a leaf for that size tank and change it every two weeks or so...but I'm a cheapskate and like to make the leaves last! lol


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

hows your betta doing?


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## Bex_2011 (Jun 14, 2011)

if ur fish is eatin, swimming and pooing fine, personally i would leave him alone.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Bex_2011 said:


> if ur fish is eatin, swimming and pooing fine, personally i would leave him alone.


that is really not the best advice.
the bump may not affect his eating habits and his insides etc, but it may be (hypothetically) eating him away, in a way that won't affect these things.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

He's still eating well, just put 1/2 a leaf in that he's inspected and done a 30% WC. Going to defrost some bloodworm for his dinner tonight.
The lump doesn't seem to have grown any bigger, but his fins are raggedy so have put some anti fungus and finrot in.

Is it best to leave the light off? He seems to hide a lot when it's on.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Snailgirl said:


> His tank is about 27L, how many do you think I will need for it? I ordered 5
> 
> 
> Things? Could you be any more vague?


 
garlic helps sometimes...

boosting the immune system...

does garlic guard really help keep fish healthy? - FishForums.com

i've used it in the past with good results...

i'm not telling anyone to use anything... my disclaimer...


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

It would probably help make him feel safer, but the downside is it's harder to keep a check on how he's looking. As long as you're keeping the water quality perfect, that's the best thing to do imo  
I wouldn't do 30% w/c though, water changes stress fish out anyway, little and often is usually recommended. That's because if you change a large amount of the water and your tap water is at a different ph, gh etc to the tank water (which it usually is by a little, plz dnt ask me to explain why because I don't know that part though!) then essentially you'll alter the ph of the tank by a little, which might be too much for a sick fish. I'd stick with a 10% twice a week, maybe 3 times a week, but only if he still doesn't appear to be getting better doing it twice a week. Hope that all makes sense! lol


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

^it's fine to do bigger changes.. it doesn't stress the fish.
it might if you don't dechlorinate the water and let it sit for a half a day though.
30 % is good


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

If it's a tumor, i've seen vets dealing with tumors on goldfish (specifically large ranchus and orandas) and by just cutting the tumor off and offering an antibiotic in the water, however i do not know if this is a good thing to do with a betta because of its small size.

Don't know, if he starts to get sluggish and refuse food then euthanazing it is the best to do.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

I've always done 30% changes and he doesn't give a toss about them XD if it looked to be stressing him out, I'd do smaller ones. The tap water is mixed to 27.5* and a dechlorinater (Stress Coat) is added.

Hot damn that leaf has made the water so yellow x_x


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Fair enough. I've always done littler changes. But if it's not bothering him, that's what matters 

The almond leaves do do that I'm afraid! Should have warned you. Looks like they're swimming in tea....lol The leaves are supposed to have antibacterial properties and most of the thai breeders use them, so it should help


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

He's really not doing well now. He's lying on top of the filter with a bloated belly, even though he hasn't eaten. I don't have any clove oil and I don't want to stress him out so not really sure what to do.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

oh no 
one thing i can suggest is maybe snap his neck?
a good knock on the head, over a counter or something will be a quick way for him to go.
you could just leave him, if there are no other fish in the aquarium, or if there aren't any other fish, drop down the water and overdose him with another medicine for fish.


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> oh no
> one thing i can suggest is maybe snap his neck?
> a good knock on the head, over a counter or something will be a quick way for him to go.
> you could just leave him, if there are no other fish in the aquarium, or if there aren't any other fish, drop down the water and overdose him with another medicine for fish.


I couldn't possibly do that, I love this fish  if I did I probably wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it hard enough and just hurt him ;_;

There are 6 pygmy cories in the tank with him. I'm not really sure what to do with them. I have a 17L tank that has my GAL in it at the moment that I could move them to possibly, but they're a nightmare to catch and it'd cause the betta a lot of stress.


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

Snailgirl said:


> I couldn't possibly do that, I love this fish  if I did I probably wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it hard enough and just hurt him ;_;
> 
> There are 6 pygmy cories in the tank with him. I'm not really sure what to do with them. I have a 17L tank that has my GAL in it at the moment that I could move them to possibly, but they're a nightmare to catch and it'd cause the betta a lot of stress.


If you're going to euthanase it, best way with love is few drops of clove oil and the freezer, if you can't do it ask someone else.

Just keep the cories or rehome them.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

abadi said:


> If you're going to euthanase it, best way with love is few drops of clove oil and the freezer, if you can't do it ask someone else.
> 
> Just keep the cories or rehome them.



read a few back.. no clove oil  freezing is bad, it is painful, the fish feels itself crystallising. 20:80 clove oil/ water is fine though


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Where can I get clove oil?


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Snailgirl said:


> Where can I get clove oil?


most pharmacies


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

how he's looking at the moment:








Big bloated belly and he won't eat  he's spent most of the day on top of the filter, just sitting near the surface. When he does swim he has barely any energy so just sinks to the bottom after a short burst of movement.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

awww. it's such a shame, he's a gorgeous fish. bettas don't appeal to me.. but i like the red on him.
his fins are clamped down a bit too, or is that just him?


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> awww. it's such a shame, he's a gorgeous fish. bettas don't appeal to me.. but i like the red on him.
> his fins are clamped down a bit too, or is that just him?


It is a real shame, I'm really going to miss him :/ don't think I'll be getting another one because of how attached I've got to him. Don't want to have the same experience again. 
His fins have always been a bit raggedy, but they're a bit clamped too at the moment :/


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

what is your plan with him then?


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

spinnin_tom said:


> what is your plan with him then?


I guess I'll have to euth him with some clove oil ;_; I don't think I'll be able to kill him myself so I'll have to ask someone else to for me. Brother to the rescue, he has no feelings for my fish!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Snailgirl said:


> I guess I'll have to euth him with some clove oil ;_; I don't think I'll be able to kill him myself so I'll have to ask someone else to for me. Brother to the rescue, he has no feelings for my fish!


that's good you've decided what to do with him.
i've been lucky not to have to euthanize any of my fish YET. i think if my ghost knife was 'giving up the ghost' i'd never be able to do it


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## abadi (Jul 25, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> read a few back.. no clove oil  freezing is bad, it is painful, the fish feels itself crystallising. 20:80 clove oil/ water is fine though


Didn't know clove oil with water only can do it but well still sounds good, its much easier than knocking the head or using a knife.



Sorry about your betta, Gladly he lived a peaceful life with you : victory:


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Have pm'd you that thingy on euthanasia. Good luck


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

Just thought I'd update you all. He is still alive and eating about once a day, he seems to have trouble seeing the food so we are having to cup him with a hand in the water to allow him to eat the food.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Aww bless him. Poor little thing. How's the bump looking? Gone down at all or stayed the same?


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

It's a little bigger and more lumpy


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

If he stops eating I'd definitely say it's time for PTS - sounds like you're doing the right thing 

Have a read of this for info if you like - as others have said I would recommend clove oil (though not 1/5th volume as above! Only a few drops are needed). You can get it from Boots and other pharmacies very cheap.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/fish-keeping/655293-do-fish-feel-pain-how.html


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

+1 on the link title
as i've said before, fish are amazing at masking pain.
the moment he stops eating....


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## Snailgirl (Sep 29, 2008)

He's so hit and miss :/ He's eaten today again, and he's quite active. Changing all the time, wish he'd make his mind up.


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