# savannah monitor or tegu wich is tamest



## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

i am beside myself i wont a savannah but i hear from local pet stores they can be nasty and suggested a black and white tegu. i know they are all different but i dont wont a 4 foot lizard taking a finger off and i dont want to have to send one to a shelter there are enough big lizards for adoption already.wich one am i going to have more luck with.tell me stories of both and there dog like tameness. HELP PLEASE


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## fastbaz (Aug 12, 2007)

there are some previous posts on here about monitors and tegus.... do a search and you will find some anwers... we have a black and white argentinian tegu 8 months old and he is great they can usually become dog tame with work and are suppossed to be the more placid tegu....


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## chimpy666 (Jan 2, 2007)

from what I have seen, if you put the work in with either tegu or a bosc they will be puppy dogs and lovable companions.

a freind of mine has a bosc and hes as tame as a puppy and as about as soppy as one as well


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

We have two Argentine Black and White tegus. From what I understand, they need a LOT less "work" to keep them tame once they get there - and are quite easy to tame down.


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## Razaiel (Oct 17, 2006)

From another angle ... I have a bosc - he is not "dog tame" - nor do I want him to be. He does however trust me, I can go into his viv (yes, right inside - it's that big) and do stuff for him and he doesn't mind. I can help him dig for the worms that get away whilst his snout is right in front of me - and he knows that I'm no threat and knows exactly what I'm doing for him (yes I know I should make him work for them  ). I don't however make a habit of picking him up (though I can if I have to), and he doesn't go walkies on a leash. I worked with the idea of building trust rather than going straight in for the force-handling and we have a good relationship with all my fingers intact. 

You are right about the large lizards available for re-homing - they are often the result of people wanting large lizards then finding they are unable to cope with them - there's no guarantee a monitor will become tame - but with the right conditions they will always make interesting captives.

I have known one B&W Tegu (an Argentine) it was a big soppy thing and didn't mind who touched it, picked it up, whatever (mind those claws!!) - that is my only experience of them however. Just be careful that if you go for a B&W you are getting an Argentine rather than a Colombian as they are well known for having a less personable temperament. There is a member on here who has a lot of experience with tegus so hopefully she will be able to give a lot of advice on this.

Another thing to consider is do you have the facility to house a captive that really requires an 8x4x4 vivarium? Plus all the substrate, higher heating requirements, and potentially huge food bills? The cost of the monitor is the cheap part ...

This one is a pretty good caresheet on the care of savs Savannah Monitor Care Sheet Information. monitors /uSavannah Monitor Help and Care Savannah Monitor,monitors,care sheets,information on Savannah Monitor Lizards info, Savannah Monitor help the only thing I would add is that I personally would go for an 8x4 viv.

Read and research as much as you can - lurk on all the monitor forums and gather all the information you can.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'd take a B&W any day over a savannah. tamer or not... just my preff..


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

to buddy with the savannah monitor i dont know wy you wouldnt want him to be dog tame thats just stupid. and iv researched monitor and tegu for 4 months so i dont need any more care sheets i just wont to know how other ppl lizards act.


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## turk (Nov 15, 2007)

To be honest i would suggest a savannah although they can be tempermental. I had a female savannah who was the most perfect pet i could ask for. She didnt seem to like anyone else though. As for tegus well my experience with these in my opinon are harder to tame down then savannah's. Just consider that these are big powerful reptiles and in the process of taming could suffer a bite. As long as you have no problem in the pain without pleasure theory then eather of these reptiles can make amazing pets


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## daisyleo (Nov 23, 2006)

I think if you are already cautious about losing a finger a big monitor isn't the way to go.
Neither animal will ever be 'dog tame' they are meant to live in the wild there for retain wild instincts, you could have a tegu that is used to handling and what not one day suddenly attack you, or vice versa one that is nasty one day will let you handle.
I have had both and prefer the bosc's attitude to the tegu, our bosc had never attempted to bite since he was a hatchling however he's very vocal.
The tegu on the other hand has attempted to bite and succeeded(sp) I had to rehome my tegu in the end because of his aggressivness I miss him heaps and he was bar far more attractive than the bosc but by no means 'tamer' that isn't a word I like to use with monitors especially the larger ones.


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## grevo (Jul 31, 2007)

whalen said:


> to buddy with the savannah monitor i dont know wy you wouldnt want him to be dog tame thats just stupid. and iv researched monitor and tegu for 4 months so i dont need any more care sheets i just wont to know how other ppl lizards act.


I think thats unfair on the owner what he's saying is he wants his monitor to be happy and believes rightly or wrongly that by making a monitor dog tame you break its spirit. 

I respect his decision on that and clearly his monitor is happy


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## kasandrich (Nov 9, 2007)

grevo said:


> I think thats unfair on the owner what he's saying is he wants his monitor to be happy and believes rightly or wrongly that by making a monitor dog tame you break its spirit.
> 
> I respect his decision on that and clearly his monitor is happy


I think we must all respect each others keeping decisions. So long as the animals welfare is taken care of.

Some would argue it is cruel to keep any Lizard in captivity is cruel. I have only come into face to face contact with one BOSC he was dog tame, anyone could stroke him, and he loved it, close his eyes and rolled his head toward you, and the owner was holding him up on his chest. I have to conclude that an animal that responds like that is tamed, (you could call it his spirit broken), but he must be happy and content or he would let you know.


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## Razaiel (Oct 17, 2006)

whalen said:


> to buddy with the savannah monitor i dont know wy you wouldnt want him to be dog tame thats just stupid. and iv researched monitor and tegu for 4 months so i dont need any more care sheets i just wont to know how other ppl lizards act.





grevo said:


> I think thats unfair on the owner what he's saying is he wants his monitor to be happy and believes rightly or wrongly that by making a monitor dog tame you break its spirit.
> 
> I respect his decision on that and clearly his monitor is happy


I'm with Grevo on this. So you have been researching for 4 months and don't need to know any more? I have had my sav for 2 years and still consider myself to be learning. I know many people who have been keeping monitors (much bigger than savs) for much longer than I, and they too are still researching and learning all the time.

I just hope you've been reading the right care sheets as many of them out there do not give out the correct information. Join some of the monitor-specific forums and hang out there and read the posts including the archives. There is a lot of good information out there - but unfortunately - there is also much bad information too.


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

i understand trust it is a good way to do things but wy wouldnt you want him to be tame he can trust you and be tame i have a ballpython 2 pacman frogs and 2 bearded dragons theye all trust me and are all tame. if my dragon is dominent over the female and being aggresive i can pick him up off of her and he wont do nothing to me.i can do pretty much watever i wont to any of theme and theyv never bit me or tried


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

i have had my ball python 2 pacman frogs and 2 bearded dragons for over 2 years and still research them every couple off days to see stuff i mised and new stuff. i dont meen i dont need any more care sheets i just meen i wont more detailed info most care sheets are temps subtrate diet things like that. i wont like 3 pages off diet 3 pages off heat you know more detail and i wont to know how other ppl lizards act in difererent situations theyv never been in before and how ppl feed them wat they yous for subtrate how they care for there lizards


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

whalen said:


> i understand trust it is a good way to do things but wy wouldnt you want him to be tame he can trust you and be tame


Some people want to see their lizard behave towards them like a lizard, not a dog. Though I'm not one of them (I like that I can have my younger tegu sit on my lap for half an hour and pick him up and carry him and take him outside) I can understand that - I'm the same way about my snakes. My snakes aren't companions - they're pets that I watch with fascination and admiration for what they are. 

It's one thing to have a beardie who doesn't react when you interrupt what they're doing... they can't do MUCH to you if things go pear-shaped anyway.

But I've taken both Chess and Domino - our tegus - outside. Chess is happy to go - he doesn't get stressed out and he doesn't start throwing a wobbly. Domino? That's another story entirely. An adult tegu chomping down on the toe of your shoe is not a friendly thing. Especially not when she's been lunging for your knee and your hands in the process of getting there.

I could PROBABLY train her not to do it... but as far as it goes, it'd be more stressful for her to MAKE her learn to go outside than it is to work with her and understand her limitations. 

She's not a dog. She's a lizard, and there are things about being outside that set her off. I'll live with that - she's unflappable indoors, unlike Chess (who gets huffy) - and I'd rather not damage the relationship we have.


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## Rick_Albig (Aug 29, 2007)

Whalen, you should take the advice that was given to you by Razaiel. Keep researching and learning.

You need to understand that the term "TAME" when referring to a reptile is very misused. They may tolerate and trust you but the biggest mistake you can make is to get too complacent. A 4'+ lizard can do a lot of damage and no matter how "tame" they are it only take a funny smell or something to spoke them and you could be finding yourself on the way to hospital!

These are essentially wild animals (I would put money on it that a bosc will be WC) and even if the are CBB they are still only a few generations from the wild.

You need to ask yourself why you want a large reptile? I keep V.albigularus and V.panaptos horni. All of my animals are over 5' and very very powerful. I like to thing of them as fish, great to look at but not so great to play with. Similar to Raziels Bosc my animals will tolerate my presence and will allow me to perform the basic husbandry tasks i need to partake in, but i have to respect there boundaries and know my limits. 

Make sure you prepare yourself for an animal that may never "Like" you, let you pet it, let you cuddle and kiss it or let you walk it around the park on a doggy leash. 

Enjoy your animal for what it is and allow it to be a what it is.

Rick


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## miffikins (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree with both Rik and Razaiel here. You will never get to the point where you know 'everything' or 'enough' about your lizard, its always best to keep learning. I have had my ackie for about 7 months and I have just joined a monitor specific forum and its amazing to see what you thought you knew as best isn't, theres a much better way of doin it, and so many people who know so much more than me!

My male ackie is very happy to be handled, but I let him come to me. On the other hand, the little one is scared of/dislikes human contact, so we leave her alone and just enjoy watching her. I think the same applies with any animal, if they don't want to interact with you, don't make them, just by going about your business cleaning etc, they will learn you are not a threat so may be less hostile, but that stil doesn't mean they 'like' you

Ha! Dunno if that fits in with the theme of this thread coz I was lazy and only read the last page of posts :whistling2:

: victory:


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## Herpy's (Nov 21, 2007)

I've quite enjoyed my savanna biting me.. True he is only 8 months old.. But as they say better now than later.. He only bites if he's scared or feels threatened. Once you have built up a good bond with him he'll be putty in your hands.. They are supposedly the tamest of all monitor lizards, and people take them for walks wearing harnesses.. OK.. To start with he'll run and hide under rocks when young.. He'll soon puff himself up and present himself to you.. Then run.. After a month or two he'll start striking at your hand.. He wont bite, yet... then he'll run and hide.. By the time he's big enough at about 5-7 months.. then he'll start biting you... Dont worry.. It kinda tickles.. He can lock on as well.. My boy had hold of me for 20 minutes last month.. 
I think.. I hope.. that may have been the last bite a recieve from him.. since then he just winks at me.. so i scratch him on the head which he seems to delight in pushing himself onto my finger.. he also climbs out onto my shoulder.. 
If you get worried about the biting thing.. Then your probably looking at the wrong lizard.. Its also natural to pull away when he strikes..dont.. He'll remember.. Let him bite you so he knows he isnt gonna get what he wants... 
If you can spray him to lower his tempreture a bit.. seems to take the edge out of their aggression.. Also get a large recepticle for him to bathe in.. Boscs love lounging in water..
IMPORTANT... Dont feed them by hand.. He will get to know that when your hand comes in its dinner time.. He'll get bigger one day and miss the pinky, getting your finger by accident.. Ouch.. Oh.. and a useful number to remember if you get bitten by an adult .... 999....!! ha ha


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

how do you know his monitor is happy do you know him do you talk to him. just cuz the lizard isnt dead that dosnt meen hes happy you cant tell if any reptile is happy they dont smile they dont talk theres no way of knowing.


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## miffikins (Feb 25, 2007)

Genreally speaking, if they are exhibiting natural behaviours they are ok. I know mine is happy to be handled because he comes to me, he wouldn't climb onto me if he wasn't comfortable doing so.

Besides, 'happy' is a bit of an anthropomorphism.....but thats a whole other discussion....

: victory:


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

if you would all stop jumping to conclusions i said i dont need any more care sheets i didnt say i know everything i wont more specific sheets like pages and pages of behavior diet heat more detaled reading. i alwredy said that farther up the thread but everybody is so eager to attack wat i said no one even noticed


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

I NEVER SAID I KNEW EVERYTHING i said i dont need any more care sheets i wont more detailed reading like pages and pages of heat diet you know more detailed.i alredy said this farther up the thread but everybody is so eager to attack wat i said no one even noticed


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

whalen said:


> i wont more specific sheets like pages and pages of behavior diet heat more detaled reading.


But in most cases that just doesn't exist unless you're going to go out and buy things like this book on monitor biology or something...

I mean, I can only say that, for example, I feed my adult tegu once a week on morio worms, frozen-thawed fruit mix (I use a smoothie mix - the pieces of mango, papaya, banana and strawberry are the right size to be swallowed), vegetables and the occasional rat, chick or mouse, my juvenile tegu twice or three times a week on locusts, morios, fruit, and the occasional rat or mouse, and that the nile is fed once or twice a week on locusts, morios and the occasional rat or mouse... 

How much more can I say? There just isn't pages there


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## miffikins (Feb 25, 2007)

There are only so many care sheets available to read. If you want to know about behaviour, go look up some decent journals, something like the Journal of Herpetology. Although you will probably only find behavioural studies on wild tegu's/boscs, they will be very relevent. These are essentially wild animals, they are not domesticated like dogs, which is why many keepers, like Razaiel like to leave them be and simply enjoy to watch them and as such will still exhibit many of the behaviours that their wild counterparts do. So looking at these studies may give you a better insight into their behaviour.

Try google scholar and type in their latin names, it will probably throw you some interesting things up. Theres also BIAWAK (sp) which is a journal dedicated to monitors. But again, I think most of the info will be wild individuals, but as I said, that is totally relevant to you if you wish to learn about behaviour and diet

And people are not jumping to conclusions, they are just helping you understand the responsibilty involved and as people do not know you personally they are just dishing out this info to be on the safe side (incase you're a crazy 12 year old out to get a big lizard for christmas! which I'm sure you're not)

: victory:


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## Rick_Albig (Aug 29, 2007)

whalen said:


> I NEVER SAID I KNEW EVERYTHING i said i dont need any more care sheets i wont more detailed reading like pages and pages of heat diet you know more detailed.i alredy said this farther up the thread but everybody is so eager to attack wat i said no one even noticed


No one is attacking you, just trying to help.

A basic start should be these two books. They are not expensive and should be able to answer some of your questions.

The first book is buy a great guy called Mark K Bayless (RIP my friend). He was the most enthusiastic Varanis enthusiast i ever had the pleasure speaking too. He wealth of knowledge and willingness to share and teach was unrivalled. He is greatly missed.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Savannah-Monitors-Complete-Herp-Care/dp/0793828864/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195686606&sr=8-1

The second book is by British herpacultureist Daniel Bennet. Daniel has spent extensive time in the field working with these animals and I believe this book to be one of the best around.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Savannah-Monitor-Lizard-exanthematicus-Exanthematicus/dp/0952663295/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195686707&sr=1-3

Hope this is what you were looking for.

Cheers

Rick


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## Razaiel (Oct 17, 2006)

Last word on this - being monitor keepers ourselves we care about monitors. Having been on monitor forums for a good while I see people come and go all the time - they enter these forums with wonderful ideas of what they are going to do with their monitor. A high percentage of these disappear forever within 6-9 months just leaving us "old timers" there. 

This is my "not tame" monitor. This is also something he does not do on a regular basis - but proves that as they grow up and get older and bigger they come to trust you (mostly). He is also not normally this clean.










He is a "handleable" monitor - I could have videoed him and myself the other afternoon jointly digging for lost morio worms - just after that I was checking his toes over as he is currently shedding to make sure his toes weren't getting constricted. Yes he will allow me to do this. If he is out of his vivarium and I am beside it doing stuff - he will climb on me to get back in. Is my lizard happy? What does happiness mean to a monitor? Food and a nice basking spot and a selection of hiding places. In the future I may well provide him with a mate and he'll have even more fun. :crazy:


Cheers.


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## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

Great post Razaiel. I consider my tegu "tame" as he doesnt bite me regardless of my presence (unless hes getting spooked by outside, which is another story), will come over and inspect me and/or hide under me if Im sitting down etc. However, its all on his terms; sure, I can pick him up and carry him around and he doesnt generally fuss, but given a choice doing what _I _want isnt his perogative; everything has to be on his terms. This is one of the reasons I think that "dog-tame" is one of the most inaccurate statements you can make about a lizard; a dog lives for its master. A lizard lives for its own impulses. If its masters own desires fall into this area then fair play  but I know I have a fight on my hands if I have to make my tegu do something he REALLY doesnt want to.

That being said, I still think a well-socialised tegu can be a wonderful pet - as a matter of fact, my adult tegu is our only "pet" lizard, as all of the other are hands-off for the most part. I just think that peoples expectations need to be more reasonable sometimes; these stories about "dog-tame" lizards will just end in misery for the lizards or the owners.


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

JO i seen some videos of your tegu there great wats with him and that broom thats strange. i seen you fed him dead mice is that because live make theme aggresive or what


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

whalen said:


> JO i seen some videos of your tegu there great wats with him and that broom thats strange. i seen you fed him dead mice is that because live make theme aggresive or what


It's because a dead mouse or rat can't bite your tegu/monitor. You also don't have to feed a dead mouse, nor do you have to worry about it escaping.

And because feeding live without a VERY good reason (aka: "I have a letter from my vet saying this animal will starve and die without being fed live") you're on slightly wobbly legal ground in the UK, and might be open to being prosecuted for animal cruelty.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

whalen are you not from here in the uk?

My opinion on the "dog tame" issue is similar to razaiels an a few other ppls
However I wouldnt say I would dissaprove if my Savvy was even friendlier and actually appeared to "love" us and the attention we give him.

I do want to mention though, you asked how you know if they are happy as you cannot tell...
the response was if they are behaving normally they prolly are.... problem with a "dog tame" monitor is its not really behaving normally in the first place..


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

no im not im from ontario canada there are no laws here about feeding live mice to pets i have 2 pacman frogs and they eat live mice and a ball python that eats live mice we have pretty much no laws in owning animals you can have venomouse and almost anything. mice in the reptile pet trade are breed for food so its the same as breeding cows or chickens for food for peaple.i have no simpathy for them but i treat them good before there eaten theye have a weel to run on a house to sleep in and a big food and water boul there treated better than most pet mice.i just asked because i know sertan snakes and lizards can become aggresive from live feeders


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## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

whalen said:


> JO i seen some videos of your tegu there great wats with him and that broom thats strange. i seen you fed him dead mice is that because live make theme aggresive or what


Yeah, he has a real prejudice against the broom...he WILL attack it if youre using it. Im presuming it stems from some instinct, but I dont know why he reacts to it the way he does. He also doesnt like feet (he will randomly attack peoples shoes when outside), and he also gets angry and suspicious of washing on the line - I did spend a while watching him "stalk" a pair of trousers on the whirly washing line during the summer :S Very odd, but Im sure it can be traced back to natural behaviour somehow. 

SSthisto already mentioned the reasons that one should feed dead mice as opposed to live. There is a theory that feeding live mice can make a tegu more aggressive; however, mine has eaten dead mice all his life and still pounces on his food bowl when its presented. It has had no effect whatsoever on his feeding response!  Besides which, who is going to feed their tegus dead insects as well? You will be feeding him some form of live food for most of the lizards life I think.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a tame monitor is one that doesn't see you as a threat. you aren't breaking it's spirit and it will behave as any monitor will except that it doesn't get defensive with you. you become just a part of it's environment. if anything, taming by closely working with a monitor will improve it's health because it's not stressing out everytime you get near it. it's still going to be the same lizard in all ways. they don't go around attacking trees because they don't see a tree as a threat. wild animals are always going to be wild but with varying degrees of effort they can at least tolerate you or maybe completely accept you. no animal is better off being aggravated all the time. in addition there is the safetey issue.


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## zukomonitor (Nov 11, 2007)

the definition of "tame" is different to each person, but i have seen tame komodo dragons , (if anybody wants to argue a i can show you proof) each animal is different, what i have learnt is that black n white tegus seem to be more tameable in relation to gold tegus but boscs/savanna's seem to be all on a similar level, if you put the time and effort in you will see the reward,


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## Carl (Jan 19, 2007)

grevo said:


> I think thats unfair on the owner what he's saying is he wants his monitor to be happy and believes rightly or wrongly that by making a monitor dog tame you break its spirit.
> 
> I respect his decision on that and clearly his monitor is happy


sorry guys to come in half way throught but, to tame an animal is not breaking its spirits, is simply teaching them you mean no harm, i would think an untamed animal would suffer more in stress in captivity though being nervous of the owner (thinking of them as a threat)

I tame all my animals, and find that when cleaning them out they are more relaxed, instead of trying to hide.

: victory:


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## Carl (Jan 19, 2007)

sorry just seen that i've said the same as HABU, sorry dude, read first page then answered, but then read the rest lol: victory:


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## whalen (Nov 17, 2007)

THANK YOU habu and carl thats what im trying to say you can tame your monitor without herting or scareing him your not going to brake his spirit theres no reason they cant be tame and happy. and i agree with you guys if your animal feares you than hes going to be stressed wen you do routine cleanings.


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## Johelian (Nov 25, 2006)

Again though, I guess it depends on what you consider to be "tame"


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i believe that tegus are smarter than most all monitors. monitors are much older than tegus and more primitive. tegus seem to learn faster and better. only golden tegus have stayed wild in my experiance. blk & wht's learn who the food guy is rather quickly. monitors can be dense.


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## DaveVicious (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm a fan of both monitors and tegus, but if you are going to get a big lizard, go for a tegu, if you plan on getting a argentine, make sure you are ready to make a huge cage. from what i hear savannahs and argentines grow up to the same size, but a savannah will do fine in a 6x3, while the tegu needs a 8x4, I have been bitten by savannahs i've worked with, but tegus that i've worked with are much more tamer and will not bite even if you smell like mice, that's just a statement to tell you how much tamer the tegu is, but if you raise a savannah as a baby, it will get used to humans, and become very gentle, they both eat a lot, but tegus are much more cheaper to keep, because tegus eat both fruits, vegetable, and meat, while the savannah monitor is pure carnivores and require at least 3 mice a day, a tegu however can be fed 4 adult mice a week, i am also going to be getting a red tegu soon, sometime in December, before I started working with reptiles, I always wanted a savannah monitor, but I realized the difference in intelligence between the two, the tegu was able to know it's name and even be trained, while the savannah would not care at all, so make sure you know what you are going to get before you go and get the animal of your choice


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

DaveVicious said:


> I'm a fan of both monitors and tegus, but if you are going to get a big lizard, go for a tegu, if you plan on getting a argentine, make sure you are ready to make a huge cage. from what i hear savannahs and argentines grow up to the same size, but a savannah will do fine in a 6x3, while the tegu needs a 8x4, I have been bitten by savannahs i've worked with, but tegus that i've worked with are much more tamer and will not bite even if you smell like mice, that's just a statement to tell you how much tamer the tegu is, but if you raise a savannah as a baby, it will get used to humans, and become very gentle, they both eat a lot, but tegus are much more cheaper to keep, because tegus eat both fruits, vegetable, and meat, while the savannah monitor is pure carnivores and require at least 3 mice a day, a tegu however can be fed 4 adult mice a week, i am also going to be getting a red tegu soon, sometime in December, before I started working with reptiles, I always wanted a savannah monitor, but I realized the difference in intelligence between the two, the tegu was able to know it's name and even be trained, while the savannah would not care at all, so make sure you know what you are going to get before you go and get the animal of your choice


 
i got a disease in korea....took months to cure!! hehe...


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