# Now someone's trying to sell Berber Skinks on ebay



## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Under the guise of selling a viv, of course!!

Here's the link COMPLETE REPTILE VIVARIUM INCLUDING 2 X BERBER SKINKS!! - eBay Reptiles, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 30-Sep-07 13:27:34 BST)

He says in his auction:

Hi, For auction is my Reptile Vivarium which includes a heat mat, 2 wooden logs, water dish, plastic plant and the wood chipping's. Also i am selling my 2 berber skinks in with the vivarium, they are a male and a female both about 12"s long including the tail, they are very tame and eat crickets and fruit out of your hand, they are very easy to keep, they were my first reptiles and ive had them a while now with no problems, they are omnivore's which means they will eat pretty much anything from crickets and meal worms to fruit and veg and even dog food and i feed them every other day. they are very tame if you get them out to hold them they climb all the way up to your head and sit there all day they are very nosey. the male is a bit bigger than the female and in excellent condition, but the female is missing her front right foot which the pet shop owner who sold them to me said she's never had it she was born without one, she doesn't miss it anyway she's a lot quicker than the male. the tank is 60 cm lengh by 45 cm high and 30 wide with sliding doors and a wire mesh top and the heat mat just simply plugs into main's. These are very easy to keep and very tame so would be great for kids and adults who would like to try keeping reptiles for the first time. The item is collection only for obvious reasons or i would deliver locally for a small fuel charge, email me for information. Cash on collection would be preffered but paypal will also be accepted. Thanks 

I've reported it to ebay as it contravenes their rules about selling live animals, so no doubt it'll be removed, but does everyone agree that this is NOT the place to advertise any pet???


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

personelly i dont see hwat the harm is, my mate is seeling a viv and he said with a scaly friend and some one messeged him saying he was breaking the rules and was gonna *grass him up* i thought that was pathetic, havent people got better things to do rather then moan about what others are doing?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it! That's what a forum is all about. Personally I don't like and I know I'm not the only one on this forum who feels the same and has reported sellers for advertising equipment and 'throwing in' a reptile!


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

I don't ahve a problem with people offering animals for sale.
However it goes against Ebays own rules and he has choosen Ebay to sell them on.
If they were advertised on a forum or classified section, that allowed animals sales, that would be fine.
Just advertising them in the wrong place really.
Stephen


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

It does seem strange that people go mad about people selling animals on ebay, yet forums like this one have a clasifieds section that allows ads for animals, Yes its against ebay rules but it is no different than someone registering on here and posting an animal up for sale. Ebay rules dont always make sense - when we started selling livefoods on ebay it was against their rules, but you were allowed to sell honey bees and tropical fish! And every time the we posted livefoods up, the ebay nutters reported the links and got them pulled, it cost us a lot of money in wasted adverts but after much persuasion on our part ebay changed their rules and allowed the sale of feeder insects (especially after they realised how much commision they would make on the sales)


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

I have to agree the rules don't always make scense.
However if you are using their services to sell something it is only right to obay the rules they impose.
By all means get the rules changed, if possible, but in the meantime advertising items that are not allowed can get the guys account closed.
Looks to me like he maybe does not know that selling live animals is banned. No doubt someone will tell him, or inform ebay, in due course.
Stephen.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

erm..guys..
there is a HUGE difference.
sellers on a reptile specific forum are not gona for instance... stick an animal in the post...
on ebay you have no such guarentee.
the sellers...or buyers... could be a bit thick.
Imagine the buyerr pays and then the seller says "ill post the lot, put the skinks in a box inside, they wil be fine"
the buyer knows no better.
2 skinks die.
That is why ebay say no animals, and why it is RIGHT to report ppl who do.

in all fairness this guy said "pick up obviously" but thats not always the case..and it is still against the rules.
Ebay isnt really for selling live animals ,the hole way ebay is formatted is for "stock" not pets.

if an item doesnt arrive...you can report it.
if it arrives damaged... you can report it and claim from the post ofice.
if an animal arrives dead...theres nothing for that with ebay is there?
thus... no animals to be sold on ebay.


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## pixie_bex (Jul 1, 2006)

it CLEARLY states collection only so no animal is going to be sent through the post..

Yes its against ebay rules but I cant understand why everyone gets so crazy about it....

So far the reasons have been

The will buy something and not know anything about it - ANYONE ON HERE COULD DO THAT! 

They have not "thrown the reptile in" they are selling them WITH there set up, Of course this has been worded different to try and get around the rules (which yes is wrong) 

Any newbie could join here know sod all about reps and buy something off of someone, Or indeed from any other reptile classified.

As I said I personally dont have a problem with it ... Sometimes people are there own worst enemy


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

> there is a HUGE difference.
> sellers on a reptile specific forum are not gona for instance... stick an animal in the post...
> on ebay you have no such guarentee.


But on the other hand... No such gaurantees apply to this website either, ebay can stipulate their own rules, for example when we started selling livefoods they included a stipulation that we must use a next day delivery service, i.e first class post (I know thats a whole thread on its own). If they were to allow livestock they could stipulate "collection in person only" and then a potential purchaser would have the benefit of the ebay feedback system to make informed purchases. just an idea?


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

no, but the chance of both seller and buyer being unaware of certain things on this site is a little less than on ebay.

that said... if animals were allowed to be sold on ebay, they no doubt would have additional rules to make sure animals were couriered corectly... its never going to be a big market for ebay and would be hard to police.. just as it is on a forum like this.. it goes on the othe rusers stepping in and advising and bad mouthing or educating offenders.... this couldnt happen on ebay in anything other than the feedback section.
it is impossible to safely sell animals through ebay [as far as ebay ae concerned] and the last thing they need/want is to be sued.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

pink said:


> But on the other hand... No such gaurantees apply to this website either, ebay can stipulate their own rules, for example when we started selling livefoods they included a stipulation that we must use a next day delivery service, i.e first class post (I know thats a whole thread on its own). If they were to allow livestock they could stipulate "collection in person only" and then a potential purchaser would have the benefit of the ebay feedback system to make informed purchases. just an idea?


yes they could, but they dont as its not what ebay is all about [its about selling things cheap and easy and getting thier rather large cut of the money]
you stick things personally on ebay [as in not a biz] if you simply dont want it anymore and wana get a good or even low price for it.. again not the way animals should be flogged.


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## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

I think you are right in that respects it could end up as an unregulated dumping ground for unwanted pets, I only see ebay from a business point of view, From a business point of view I would love to be able to list livestock on ebay, personal collection only and then the feedback system would show potential purchasers whether our livestock and us has a good reputation or not, but yes if somebody has feedback for an old he-man toy, a pair of socks, some torch batteries and a bearded dragon... I see your point.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

plus imagine soemone does buy a live animal from you... doesnt look after it... it dies.. you get negative feedback...
ebays system is flawed anyway but that would make it worse i think.


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## ViRMiN (Aug 6, 2007)

It's been removed now...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

yeh it was removed before i saw this thread [half 11]


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I just think that someone may be looking for a new viv for an existing reptile (which was why I was looking) or with the intentions of buying a different species of reptile, such as a snake once they've got the housing.

If they could get that viv cheap they'd take it with the skinks, but if they didn't like or want skinks, what would they do with them??? That's my problem.

At least if someone is looking on a reptile site or a classified ads website for a reptile they (hopefully) will be looking for and ultimately buy the specific reptile they're looking for.

I'm just not comfortable with it!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

on here the classified section is a fantastic idea..shows a range of animals, etc etc

however if someone goes on ebay they dont expect to find animals included...possibility is that someone may see the viv think oh thats a bargain, and buy it without researchin.

just another idea

there was a viv with a tortoise for sale the other week n i complained to ebay about that..vivs + tortoises = no no at the best of times, especially not on ebay.


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## claire_e_dodd (Sep 18, 2007)

It hasn't been removed

complete reptile vivarium - eBay Reptiles, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 29-Sep-07 12:56:15 BST)


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## Bonkers! (May 27, 2007)

I don't see any problem with it aslong as the buyer picks up..No need to go grassing people up it's just sad. Oh no it goes against the rules, so what! No harms gonna come to the animal :|


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

oh your such a rebel.
so obeying rules is sad??
doing what you think is right is sad?

i think going back for seconds once yourv been told is sad to be honest.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

claire_e_dodd said:


> It hasn't been removed
> 
> complete reptile vivarium - eBay Reptiles, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 29-Sep-07 12:56:15 BST)


it had been removed, is a new one, even says in the first text "one da uction due to ebay removing item"

cheeky git lol


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## Bonkers! (May 27, 2007)

And your a muppet dean


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

be carefull little boy.


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## Bonkers! (May 27, 2007)

Oh no what's the big mean man gonna do? Make me abide by the rules? oh no :O


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

yes lee, thats exactly what im gona do.. well done... you are very clever.
Come and talk to me when you are all grown up and we can have words about atitudes, until then I wont waste my time with you.


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## ViRMiN (Aug 6, 2007)

It was removed, it's just been relisted...


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## ViRMiN (Aug 6, 2007)

Sorry Dean, I should've read your post instead of just clicking reply!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

leelee862 said:


> I don't see any problem with it aslong as the buyer picks up..No need to go grassing people up it's just sad. Oh no it goes against the rules, so what! No harms gonna come to the animal :|


What part of "the rules of the service" do you think doesn't apply to everyone using the service?

Ebay's policy is nothing that cannot be shipped via Royal Mail. 

Vertebrate animals OTHER than fish cannot be shipped via Royal Mail, therefore, animals which are vertebrates cannot be sold on Ebay.

Auctions that violate the eBay terms of service just hurt people who DO abide - they get legitimate auctions turned down because the auction might skate too close to the edge of the rules (like hatching eggs, which are allowed - but post a photo of what they'll hatch into and people think you're selling live chickens... but if nobody violated the rule of no live vertebrates, then that assumption wouldn't be made!)


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

instead of everyone falling out and bitching has anybody thought of just emailing the seller and point him in the direction of rfuk where he can sell it or another good classified forum 
:lol2::lol2:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

ViRMiN said:


> Sorry Dean, I should've read your post instead of just clicking reply!


lol thats cool man.
the new one has been removed now anyway.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

beardy daz said:


> instead of everyone falling out and bitching has anybody thought of just emailing the seller and point him in the direction of rfuk where he can sell it or another good classified forum
> :lol2::lol2:


was going to do that in the form of ask the seller a question.. BUT... i couldnt find the button lol.. now eithe rim falling apart or there wasnt one on the auction.

edit- BUGGER, i know why now, prolyl cos i wasnt logged into ebay, doh.
we dont want thos etypes here anyway do we?


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## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

it takes the piss... there is a special ebay style auction site in germany just for reptiles!!!


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Well i have an add on ebay'classifieds'. i sell setups and state i can get hold of reptiles. Because its on 'classifieds' its allowed. i've had loads of intrest and given out loads of advice about rep's. :no1:


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

beardy daz said:


> instead of everyone falling out and bitching has anybody thought of just emailing the seller and point him in the direction of rfuk where he can sell it or another good classified forum
> :lol2::lol2:


good idea though a guick question to the seller saves a lot of time and people arguing on here plus you never know get people on rfuk they might change their mind and keep there reptiles if they realise there a site which can help they might just have a problem and dont know the answer which im sure they will get on here 
:lol2::lol2:


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

..... and also pointed a few to the RFUK forum. :smile:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

kennedykrew said:


> Well i have an add on ebay'classifieds'. i sell setups and state i can get hold of reptiles. Because its on 'classifieds' its allowed. i've had loads of intrest and given out loads of advice about rep's. :no1:


Got no problem with that!


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> we dont want thos etypes here anyway do we?


why not? Better here than no where else. To be honest if i saw a ad on ebay with a rep i was interested in i would bid not report :grin1:


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

VIVARIUM COMPLETE SET UP - eBay Reptiles, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 29-Sep-07 17:50:39 BST)

sellin a viv with two baby leopard geckos now


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well now, there's a sensible parent! WTF was their son expecting?

He's only had them for a couple of weeks - someone really did their homework before they committed to buying them didn't they??:banghead:

I can't imagine they're going to be able to offer new buyers any sort of sensible advice on keeping them!


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Like i say, people like that who advertise on ebay infuriate me. Everyone i've seen lately, tortoise included is a 'bought as a present but not what they expected' it's like DO YOUR HOMEWORK, u give genuine herp keepers a bad name..it's just laziness. There are plenty of pet classified sites, local newspapers etc. Loot< it's nationewide..why not advertise in there :|


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

tombraider said:


> why not? Better here than no where else. To be honest if i saw a ad on ebay with a rep i was interested in i would bid not report :grin1:


yes as would i.. if i was local.

and no.. he has no regard fo rthe animals or he wouldnt re-list after they were removed so i personally wouldnt give him/her the tiem of day if they came here... although if they did...i guess by default my assumption would be wrong so mayeb i would.

please rememebr he was trying to sell 2x 12 inch berbers in what looks like a 2 foot aqaurium with no thermostat.


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

crikey its like a geordie get together on this thread at the mo 
:lol2::lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yeh! Why not!!:lol2:


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> please rememebr he was trying to sell 2x 12 inch berbers in what looks like a 2 foot aqaurium with no thermostat.


well they obviously dont know how to care for them and seeing as its likely his new auctions going to get pulled maybe its for the best that they came here to at least learn how to care for them until they find a new home


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

i'm from lancashire originally..do i still count  :razz:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

cant see where it says it includes 2 leos...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i dont see how this bloke inspires confidents in you from his actions to think he wants to or has any interest in learning about reps.


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

well for all we know they may even be a member here already.


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

so far down the page dean it does say due to ebay rules etc etc


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

to katie yes u can be a adopted geordie 
:lol2::lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> i'm from lancashire originally..do i still count  :razz:


Yeh, course you do, but I'm the only real Geordie in this conversation cos I'm 'nearly' from the banks of the Tyne - Good old Byker!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

DeanThorpe said:


> cant see where it says it includes 2 leos...


It Says:
POT OF NUTROBAL AND A SPARE LIGHT BULB, it is housing two baby geckos but due to ebay rules i cannot advertise them on ebay but they are included


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

beardy daz said:


> so far down the page dean it does say due to ebay rules etc etc





feorag said:


> Yeh, course you do, but I'm the only real Geordie in this conversation cos I'm 'nearly' from the banks of the Tyne - Good old Byker!


lol, i see it now... how gay lol
"im not advertising them but they are included"
lol im not gona bother reporting another one today, might email him though sayin to deliver them to me for just under the bidding price or ill have it removed lol.. but that would be really really naughty.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

At least the 2 baby geckos would have a better chance of growing up to be adults!

Again, what happens if the bidders only want the viv and not the geckos???


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

see this is how i found the others i've mentioned in the past..was looking at getting some second hand vivs for when the snakes grow on (course works out cheaper to get a stack made i found)

i just think it's so cheaky.. i mean what if someone scan reads..see's the measurements..that it's local n thinks fantastic..bid

n they didnt see the animals included, seeing as they're doing it in the small print as it were


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

unfortunatly i think that happens with all animals see it cheap let the animals go fend for thenselves thats just the way some people are


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> i mean what if someone scan reads..see's the measurements..that it's local n thinks fantastic..bid
> 
> n they didnt see the animals included, seeing as they're doing it in the small print as it were


Exactly - what's gonna happen to them geckos.

I have 'vivarium' in my favourite searches, so I get an e-mail every day telling me every viv that's been listed, cos I'm looking for a new one and holding back on buying brand new to see if I can get myself a bargain - that's how I found this one and the tort one!


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

as it happens, ive emailed the seller asking if she will deliver to ipswich for petrol money, if she will, we will bid and do ourselves and the geckos a favour.
will see if we hear back eithe rby the morning when we go to work as otherwise wer will be out at work when the auction finishes.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Great! Let's know if you hear from them.

There's a bit of a bidding race going on between 2 bidders and there's a third one. I do hope you get it.


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## beardy daz (May 31, 2007)

nice one dean


DeanThorpe said:


> as it happens, ive emailed the seller asking if she will deliver to ipswich for petrol money, if she will, we will bid and do ourselves and the geckos a favour.
> will see if we hear back eithe rby the morning when we go to work as otherwise wer will be out at work when the auction finishes.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i just got a response from the seller saying they could deliver for petrol... went to back to the listing...went to bid..and guess what???
it..at the same damn time...got removed...lol.. what a grr..cant moan really lol as it shouldnt have been on there..but... **** ** * * ** * *


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

just pm the seller?


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

yeh.. and say what? i cant hardly be like "oh... ur listing has dissapeared"
cos i know why and it was prolly one of us that reported it lol
he/she may send me a message about it, you never know.. bu then that is against ebay rules too lol so he/she prolly wouldnt wana risk it.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

cant once item is ended lol, tried, then tried to email seller through ebay and it said you cant cos im not actively involved in a transaction with the seller... golly ebay is hard work lol


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

feorag said:


> Yeh, course you do, but I'm the only real Geordie in this conversation cos I'm 'nearly' from the banks of the Tyne - Good old Byker!


You're not the only one. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
I was born and raised in Blaydon ( famous for the races, the village not me )
And lived in several villages up and down the tyne.
Unfortunatly now living in Stanley, County Durham, but I'm either down the Metro or in the toon most Sundays.
Stephen.


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> cant once item is ended lol, tried, then tried to email seller through ebay and it said you cant cos im not actively involved in a transaction with the seller... golly ebay is hard work lol


I think they had another auction listing on ebay. maybe you could message them through that one


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

yeh i already done it lol... am being covert.. lol
yeh the pink scooter lol

edit-
lucky though, if there wa sno other listing there would be no way.
i sent this
hi. 
sorry couldnt contact you by any other means. 
[email protected] 
if you can give details about the viv if you wish. thanks

was a covert as i could be whilst also puttin in the email lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SnakeBreeder said:


> You're not the only one. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> I was born and raised in Blaydon ( famous for the races, the village not me )
> And lived in several villages up and down the tyne.
> Unfortunatly now living in Stanley, County Durham, but I'm either down the Metro or in the toon most Sundays.
> Stephen.


Sh*t! I forgot you were in this conversation!! 

I'm glad you managed to contact the seller Dean - I've just gone on line to check out the auction to see how you were placed and it had gone!

Strictly speaking I don't think you're breaking ebay rules e-mailing the seller if the item has been removed from the site for auction, cos there' no way they're gonna sell it through ebay so ebay aren't gonna miss out on the commission.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

got an email from the seller, explained that she had bought it off ebay just a coupel weeks before.. looked at her feedback and the listing she bought it from to confirm it...the sad thing is... the person she bought it off was saying the same thing "bought for son...didnt want it"
so the poor things have been moved atleast 3 tmes in 4-5 weeks and now is gona be a 3rd time..poor little gecko's.

ive explained to her that the entire set upplus geckos shop price is £165
but breeder combined online shop price for the lot is £65, I have asked if she will acept £80 inc delivery [27 miles each way so abut a tenner petrol i guess] and will see what she says.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

we are having soem comunication issues lol
but..shoudl be having the leos and viv delivered tomorow night.
i feel really bad now she seems really nice and said soemone left a nasty message on her ebay telling her off.


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

i think you lot are quite sad for doing all this,one of you was just about to bid on the item yet moaned that it had dissapeared! why not grow up and stop being so petty about things that are not interesting?! get a day job or sumin or just talk about something meaningful


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

3 things.

1- If you read the thread you would know exactly what went on and not have your wires so completely crossed.

2- Your a bit late as all things disscussed in this thread have gone from ebay [and rightfully so]

3- If its not of interest to you, why are you in this thread? what exactly are you moaning about? and erm.. what do you want?


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## lil_noodle (Jul 4, 2007)

i want you for one to stop being a jackass! i swear your on crack or sumin, your the same guy who told me to talk to my beardie and ask why she was biting me, yeah coz shes gonna tell me why she nipped a few times, god sake grow up! i did read the thread, and im voicing my opion as i am aloud to do so. im just clearly stating that its pathetic to get peoples items removed off ebay just coz u dont like the sound of it, what is the point of grassing people up, what are you in school!?


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

you are a fool.
Not only that... you are an idiot.
If you cannot see a genuine objection for selling live animlas on ebay in an auction where very little comunication is exchanged [gosh ,your not even able to email each other off ebay] then you are not very smart either.

Also... whether you personally give a shite or not, how dare you have a go at people that do think its bad, and that there is a good likelyhood of the animlas coming to harm, and thus do what we think is right to safeguard that...and call us [ok well me right now] nasty names.

how bloody dare you you silly little girl.

The fact that ebay themselves do not allow it is the reason...otherwise t be honest i wouldnt be outside ebays headquarters protesting them to dissallow it or anything, so technically..yes its grassing...but thats a term that really only gets used at school...oh and by morons who dont understand right from wrong.

So please... bugger off!

Thanks.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Ok,
Just had the pair of leos and viv delivered by the seller, lovely lady, bought her kids along for a look around at all the reps.
*Feorag.. you came up in conversation lol...  *
*i nicely explained the genral objection to selling live animals on ebay, and although this particular lady is very nice and wouldnt have dreamt of letting anything bad happen, them go to a loser, post them etc i do stand by my personal objection to breaking ebays rules and selling live on ebay etc.*
*i also assured her it wasnt me that had the listing removed but as far as things go.. ...well you know.*

*anyway, lovely lady, good kids, nice leos it would seem, overall a good turn out.*

*I do think its good that if anything is going on ebay that the person closest to them [geographically] maybe tries to bid on and buy the item... although the price i paid [£80] is a bit above what i could get everything for generally, its stil lbelow retail price by miles and even though we are broke and didnt really plan to get any more leos at this time we are both [me and trese] very happy with what has gone down.*

*so.. NEW LEOS, SEEM HEALTHY AND ALERT, BEING KEPT PRETTY WELL BY THE LOOKS OF IT ALTHOUGH NEGLECTED TO ASK WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN FED ON LOL..WHOOPS..*
*im sure no probs will arise and by all means guys, lets get more threads like this going on lol.*

*id also liek to re-state that anyone who doesnt like me or anyone else not liking live animals being sold n ebay against ebays wishes as it is.. please dont bore me with it and stay out of such threads... maybe..i think its a good idea anyway.*

*cheers*


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

Happy ending then. nice one Dean


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