# After 2 years of begging... Im getting my cats!! :D



## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Just put a deposit down on 2 Bengals, brother and sister, the little girl is brown rosetted and the boy is a seal lynx 
They're 5 months old, fleaed, wormed, vaccinated, neutered, socialised with dogs (we have a Labrador) and TICA registered.
Been looking for aaaaaaages and finally found my perfect little kitties... there will be more photos than the forum can handle as soon as they arrive :2thumb:
So excited! :flrt:
Jess


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Couple of pictures from the breeder


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## JustJack (Apr 19, 2010)

harlequin said:


> Couple of pictures from the breeder
> 
> [URL=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/twistedpleasure/stunning-seal-lynx-boy-tica-registered-5241afee26e2a_zps246a8358.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> [URL=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/twistedpleasure/super-friendly-very-pretty-hand-reared-girl-5241b88badb27_zpsac1a2587.jpg]image[/URL]


I'm not a fan of cats, dislike them very much so if I'm honest. But oh my gosh, they are stunning!


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## Iulia (Mar 2, 2011)

love bengals - look forward to lots of pics!!!! :flrt:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

very pretty! But why so old?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I wondered that too!

Gorgeous nevertheless. :flrt:

I hope they still like each other when they are mature! :2thumb:


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments 
Age wise I know they were keeping the male back for breeding but then decided to concentrate on the brown rosetted so that's why he's so old, I'm not sure about his sister I'll have to ask the breeder, maybe no one wanted her.
I do know they were hand reared because the mum had calcium problems so maybe it took longer for the girl to get big and strong enough to be homed?
I hope they get on well when they're older because we got 2 to keep each other company while were at work. 
If I've said anything stupid please forgive me, I'm still learning!
Jess


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

eek! 

hand reared pussy cats can be ... troublesome. 
male and females can be ... troublesome. 

however they may be just fine! lol

Getting two older cats and putting them together would worry me, as normally you introduce them as ickle kittens, however they may of been raised up together? Have they been raised together?

I love bengals, love love love them, but they just wouldnt fit in to our house.

What F are they? F1/2/3/4 etc


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

freekygeeky said:


> eek!
> 
> hand reared pussy cats can be ... troublesome.
> male and females can be ... troublesome.
> ...


They are brother and sister so have grown up together, I believe they are F5.
I didn't know there were problems with hand reared cats, off to google it now so I can see what to expect =/


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

harlequin said:


> They are brother and sister so have grown up together, I believe they are F5.
> I didn't know there were problems with hand reared cats, off to google it now so I can see what to expect =/


They arent to sure how to be cats so can be boulshy etc. My mums hand reared kitty is a nightmare lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I think with handreared kittens it depends on the household they're reared in to be honest. Does the breeder keep her litter of kittens isolated, as a lot of breeders do to prevent spread of infection?

If she socialises all her cats together from the kittens being young, then handrearing can be very different, because the kittens are surrounded by adult cats and maybe other kittens who will discipline them and teach them to be cats. I presume that the kittens still kept contact with their mother while they were being handreared? If so then the handrearing bit wouldn't really make any difference. If she isolates her kittens until they've been vaccinated, which a lot of breeders do, then they could be very humanised and that could cause problems in later life, especially with a breed known to be dominant.

As far as the brother and sister thing is concerned - some work out, some don't. In nearly 30 years of cat ownership and breeding, I have only kept 1 brother and sister and they hate each other! As kittens they were the only 2 in the litter and they played great together, actually they were pretty rough with each other, but that's how a lot of kittens play when their is a male involved. However, when they matured they separated and went their own ways. The boy hates the girl, whereas the girl is indifferent to him. They will be 14 years old on New Years day and they are now the only 2 cats in the household and he still spits and growls at her every time he sees her.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

My hand reared cats *by me - I fostered them and ended up keeping them* are nightmares. 

I wouldnt ever choose a hand reared cat, IF i had the choice. 

He is overly aggressive to humans, and cats. 

Basically they arent taught what is right or wrong, so they end up as ASBO cats. (Simba wasn't kept with his siblings or mother)


I'm not trying to put a downer on anything, owning cats is amazing, but there are known problems with male and females together, older cats together, and hand reared, and on top of that you have a bengal. Some good reading in to it, will help


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Well don't I feel a bit stupid and naive now! I obviously researched bengals loads but when it came to the other stuff I just went with what the breeder said.
We were told that if we had one cat he would get lonely and bored and it was recommended we home his sister as well as they would keep each other company and play together. With the hand rearing thing she just said that because they were hand reared they were really friendly and people orientated so I saw it as a good thing! 
I'll ask about whether they were kept together with the other cats or separated, beginning to understand why they were less expensive than other bengals.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

harlequin said:


> Well don't I feel a bit stupid and naive now! I obviously researched bengals loads but when it came to the other stuff I just went with what the breeder said.
> We were told that if we had one cat he would get lonely and bored and it was recommended we home his sister as well as they would keep each other company and play together. With the hand rearing thing she just said that because they were hand reared they were really friendly and people orientated so I saw it as a good thing!
> I'll ask about whether they were kept together with the other cats or separated, beginning to understand why they were less expensive than other bengals.


Some people sadly breed, and know nothing. Or breed, and are in it for the money. 
However there are fab breeders out there!!!

A good breeder, Should of mentioned the things above.


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## 59sound (Feb 19, 2013)

Don't let problems you haven't encountered and may not encounter get you down about your purchase, those cats look AMAZING and may be absolutely fine so don't worry..........yet:lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

There have been quite a few threads on here where people about to buy cats asked whether they should get 2 males, 2 females or one of each and most of the advice handed out was to get 2 of the same sex, because of the different way male and females react and play. Shame you didn't see them.

As a cat breeder I would never charge 'the going rate' for a 5 month old kitten, it would always be cheaper, because the older they get, the more the price goes down imao!

Personally I do think the breeder was wrong to persuade you to take a second cat when you didn't originally want one. Again as a breeder I would never do that and I wouldn't like to know anyone who did. It sounds like the girl hasn't sold as a kitten, so she's trying to find someone to take her on. 

To be honest, cats are not 'pack' animals (except for lions of course) they are solitary animals and as long as you are prepared to spend time playing with your cat when you are home, there's nothing wrong with just buying one, but imao if you were going to be persuaded to get 2, then 2 boys would be a much safer bet for keeping each other company.

I know an awful lot of people who've had the same experience as I have with my brother and sister pair. When I reached the point where I had 10 cats in the house, all my males have got on brilliantly together, but none of them really got on with any of the females and most of the females ignored each other.

Here's a recent thread asking the question and some of the answers given. http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/other-pets-exotics/986648-kittens-one-two.html


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I've messaged the breeder and she is telling me that hand reared cats have no problems and are in fact better than mum reared kittens.
She's apparently never heard of problems with hand reared cats.
As I'm sure you can imagine after speaking to you guys and doing my own research I now have my doubts about this whole thing but we've put down a £350 deposit so I'll home them as planned and just cross every bridge as we come to it.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I honestly can't see how handreared kittens are better than mum reared kittens, because that's not natural. They may be more humanised and therefore more dependent on their humans because they don't know they're cats and some people might like that?? However, they are cats and should be encouraged to behave like cats. Bengals are a very dominant breed and can be very jealous and be aggressive in their jealousy, so a 'humanised' Bengal could be a real handful.

It's up to you what you do and hopefully if you go ahead with both it will work out and I really hope it does. However, as she 'persuaded' you that you should take 2 kittens I can't see any reason why you can't say you've thought it out and decided you just want the boy and the deposit could be just offset against the price of the male.

I've never agreed to sell a kitten to anyone who has visited my house to buy a kitten on their first visit. I've put a hold on the kitten, but never agreed to sell until the prospective buyers have gone home and spent a couple of days thinking things through so they are sure that is what they want. And as a breeder I never took a deposit on any kitten. My thoughts were, if they want it they'll come back and if they don't want it, then I'm happy they aren't getting it.


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

I was thinking about asking to just have the boy but I've read a lot that bengals can get very bored on their own all day and become destructive?
Also she is neutering them both for us tomorrow.
This is what she said about hand reared cats:

Hand reared cats have no issues with aggression or nervousness as they develop its completely the opposite and this is why if you research the Asian leopard cat (you can buy them in the uk with a licence) they are always hand reared as this allows them to imprint on humans. This makes them extremely well socialised kittens and when you come next week i will show you the difference between hand reared kittens and non hand reared kittens as i also have 2 non hand reared girls. They spent the first week with mum but she got an infection and they had to be hand reared. I have a year old hand reared cat too who is a house cat and spends most of her time in my 6 year old daughter's
bedroom as she loves all the attention. I also have a friend who also breeds bengals and she has a stud boy who was hand reared and he is a complete softy i have never heard of it being the other way around and i have been a veterinary nurse for 17 years and hand reared many kittens before i was breeding so i wouldn't panic about that at all.


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## Coal (Aug 14, 2013)

They are absolutely gorgeous, congratulations! I really hope you have no problems with them, what with them being hand-reared and all, but then my moggie was half hand-reared (nursed and generally cared-for by mum but supplemented with bottle-feeding as mum was in poor condition and not producing sufficient milk for all four babies) and has always been an absolute darling; practically dog-like in his friendliness and the way he follows us around. Best of luck anyway


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

I would worry about the mum having a calcium problem sounds to me the breeder hasn't been feeding her properly, I wouldn't touch those kittens as if the breeder is feeding them the same they could have the same problem


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

lisadew24 said:


> I would worry about the mum having a calcium problem sounds to me the breeder hasn't been feeding her properly, I wouldn't touch those kittens as if the breeder is feeding them the same they could have the same problem


The kittens are on Royal Canin Kitten food, I don't know what the mum has.


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

If the mum was on a complete food she shouldn't a calcium problem, I wonder if she use to feed a barf diet and didn't do it correctly but you should question the breeder about this problem and make sure it's not hereditary because you don't want to take on kittens that could have health problem that you will have to pay for


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Tend to agree with that.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

harlequin said:


> but we've put down a £350 deposit so I'll home them as planned and just cross every bridge as we come to it.


i know thats a lot of money, but if you have any doubts, now is the time to back out. if the cats have any health problems, the vets bills could dwarf that. if the cats end up with behavioral problems, £350 may seem cheap at the price to not have to deal with them...

good luck with whatever you decide to do, they are beautiful cats.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

This might be a daft question, but assuming the two don't totally ignore each other, would the female not learn how to behave properly from the male? Or is it too late now at that age?

They're both lovely by the way OP :2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Drayvan said:


> This might be a daft question, but assuming the two don't totally ignore each other, would the female not learn how to behave properly from the male? Or is it too late now at that age?


Not sure what you mean??


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Drayvan said:


> This might be a daft question, but assuming the two don't totally ignore each other, would the female not learn how to behave properly from the male? Or is it too late now at that age?
> 
> They're both lovely by the way OP :2thumb:


How can they teach oneanother to be cats if neither have been taught themselves by other cats?

I know what you mean, had just the one been hand reared, it's possible the other could teach, but they are both hand reared meaning they could both be unruly.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

Honestly, please trust us, there are many issues hand rearing cats ...

Simba is literally a nightmare, and i have been told numerous times that i should rehome him, to a no cat house hold. But i cant bare too, so deal with the consequences. (£9,000 vet bill last year)

Take just one. Id say the male.



Cats will get bored, and destructive if you dont entertain them. I have 6 and they get bored and destructive if I dont entertain them!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

feorag said:


> Not sure what you mean??





x Sarah x said:


> How can they teach oneanother to be cats if neither have been taught themselves by other cats?
> 
> I know what you mean, had just the one been hand reared, it's possible the other could teach, but they are both hand reared meaning they could both be unruly.


Oops! I misread, I thought just the female had been hand reared for some reason :blush: One of those days I think :lol2:

Ignore me...carry on!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm really sorry if all this has really burst your bubble, but you are taking on what could be a 15+ year commitment, so the advice given is just trying to give you the best chance of success.

As far as I'm concerned, if she had persuaded you to take a brother, I would have said great and been all for that, because 2 boys will play together in the same way, but honestly girls don't play with each other or other cats like boys do. They will play with you, but not necessarily with other cats. So I'm very concerned that she has advised you that it would be better for the boy if you were to take the girl for company. Bengals in particular are a solid muscular breed and your boy could grow up to be a real heavyweight, if he starts "big daddy splashing" (if you know who Big Daddy was of course!) the smaller girl, she will very likely hate it and end up hating him.

Don't just take our word for it though, do some research on the subject before you finally commit.

Here's an example of another forum discussion that I've just found Do boy cats play rougher than girls? « Daily Kitten Chat Forum



harlequin said:


> This is what she said about hand reared cats:
> 
> Hand reared cats have no issues with aggression or nervousness as they develop its completely the opposite and this is why if you research the Asian leopard cat (you can buy them in the uk with a licence) they are always hand reared as this allows them to imprint on humans. This makes them extremely well socialised kittens and when you come next week i will show you the difference between hand reared kittens and non hand reared kittens as i also have 2 non hand reared girls. They spent the first week with mum but she got an infection and they had to be hand reared. I have a year old hand reared cat too who is a house cat and spends most of her time in my 6 year old daughter's
> bedroom as she loves all the attention. I also have a friend who also breeds bengals and she has a stud boy who was hand reared and he is a complete softy i have never heard of it being the other way around and i have been a veterinary nurse for 17 years and hand reared many kittens before i was breeding so i wouldn't panic about that at all.


I've just read this out to my husband and we are both quite gobsmacked!

Of course Asian Leopard cats that are going to be used for domestic breeding are handreared, because they are a wild cat - there's a difference. The breeder has to have a cat they can go into the pen with to take in and retrieve a queen they are mating. Asian Leopard cats are one of the most aggressive of the wild cats, more so than any of the big cats, so handrearing to imprint is essential, but they don't live in the house like a domestic cat, so there's a huge difference.

What bothers me more is that the mother of these kittens had a calcium problem and in this post she's telling you that the mother of the other handreared kittens had an infection when her kittens were only a week old. That doesn't sound like a healthy household to me. I bred cats (Somalis and Siamese) for 20 years and never had a queen with kittens get an infection or problem of any kind.

As Lisadew says, that would worry me more than anything else.

Being a veterinary nurse and handrearing kittens doesn't make her an expert on breeding. As a matter of interest how long has she been breeding??


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

please tell me you have seen and held the kittens and I really hope she's not using mum again in her breeding programme. Hope you know we are trying to help you as you already stated you have waited two years for a cat and we just want you to get a healthy friendly cat and not have the heart ache of a cat that attacks you and has tones of health problems remember there is a lot of good breeders out there but in the end it's your choice and if you still decide to have them I would recommend insurance and the breeder I got Sheldon from was terrible and I went to see him he was under weight and he climbed on my lap and stayed there and I knew I couldn't leave without him


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks so much for all your replies everyone!
I contacted the breeder again to see if she would let us just have the boy, she wasn't happy about it but she has agreed.
I am still worried how he will be on his own all day while we're at work but i'm hoping he will just sleep a lot like the dog does and then we can entertain him non stop when we are here!
I thought as well potentially I could get another male to keep him company in the future if necessary - I know introducing 2 cats has plenty of problems of its own so heres hoping he takes to being an only cat!
I've been doing plenty of research about hand reared cats and bengals specifically and I know you guys will be here for more excellent advice if I need it lol
Hes coming home next Saturday so i'll try and get some piccies then


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I find that quite unbelievable! You go to her to buy a kitten, she persuades you to buy two, you go home and think it through and tell her you want to stick with your original choice and she's not happy about it!!!

There's no reason why you shouldn't buy another kitten and if you introduce it while your boy is still a kitten (bearing in mind he's already neutered and he's just 5 months old, so no hormones raging) he should accept a kitten very readily in my experience, just pick a very outgoing bruiser type of boy kitten.

Cats are very adaptable and sleep an average of 16-18 hours a day (more when they are older) and so they will adapt their sleeping patterns to suit their life. They'll sleep when you are out and want to play when you come home, which is why you have to be prepared to spend time playing with them when you come home at night and obviously to leave lots of toys and play activities for them.

Don't forget your most important piece of equipment a good tall scratch pole for him. Too many people buying kittens for the first time rush out and buy super duper beds etc and don't think about a scratch pole, which is far more important.

And good luck. Bengals are very sociable, people oriented cats and very intelligent so he'll need lots of stimulation, but I'm sure he'll bring you lots of joy! :2thumb:


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

The best thing i've bought for my cats, and the only thing they'll play with without me, is this...


Watch in HD! 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152927044085220&l=6883037479652234376

Along with lots of scratching posts. And carboard scratches, which simba LOVES!


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

That toy looks fab! Where can I get one from lol
We've already got him one scratching post and I want to get him one of those big cat trees to climb on as well, planning on getting lots of toys to keep him occupied 
We have a ball for the dog which you put food or treats in and they have to work for ages to get it out which seems to keep him busy and I've seen something similar for cats so thought we could that as well to keep him busy after we leave in the mornings.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I had a smaller version of that ball toy to entertain my kittens before they left as well as the adults. Actually when my cats became older and didn't play as much I took it up to the wildlife centre for our grey squirrel and he loved it!! :lol2:

I also had a treat ball, which is great. Anything to amuse the cats when they need amusement and you aren't there to amuse them is great. :2thumb:


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

I really do appreciate all your help guys, especially feorag and freeky, this is my first time buying a pedigree cat and I've obviously already made a lot of mistakes - especially when it comes to choosing the right breeder - but as always I can count on the help and advice of rfuk, im sure i'll make a few more mistakes yet but i'm going to try my hardest to do everything right and research *everything*! lol


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## lisadew24 (Jul 31, 2010)

I have this and my male cat loves it


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

harlequin said:


> I really do appreciate all your help guys, especially feorag and freeky, this is my first time buying a pedigree cat and I've obviously already made a lot of mistakes - especially when it comes to choosing the right breeder - but as always I can count on the help and advice of rfuk, im sure i'll make a few more mistakes yet but i'm going to try my hardest to do everything right and research *everything*! lol



Naw thats ok!

I love the way your squirrels liked it Elieen! hehe.

The made of the toy is CATIT, they do loads of toys and senses treats. There water fountains are fab, as are the ball thingys that i have.

Another MUST have in my house is, ping pong balls. Cosmic cat nip (they ONLY like cosmic stuff, EXPENSIVE, but worth it). And little mice, made from REAL fur. They hate the fake ones! lol.

OH and a lazer pen!

Oh and I grow, many species of cat mint, cat nep and cat grasses. They love it. I even sent some in the post to shell  I can post some to you if you like?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

harlequin said:


> I really do appreciate all your help guys, especially feorag and freeky, this is my first time buying a pedigree cat and I've obviously already made a lot of mistakes - especially when it comes to choosing the right breeder - but as always I can count on the help and advice of rfuk, im sure i'll make a few more mistakes yet but i'm going to try my hardest to do everything right and research *everything*! lol


It doesn't matter how much research you do, you'll never know everything - we don't know everything even with years of experience, but you cannot beat actual experience over research either.

A must-have in my house is extra long leather bootlaces - mine loved it and when we had litters of kittens it was great cos one would pick it up and run and the rest would chase - so we got a rest! :lol2:

And pipe cleaners - the long furry craft type ones that you can twist into ball shapes are great for retrieving cats and I reckon a Bengal would be a good retriever. They were my Siameses' favourites.

Harry's favourites from being a tiny kitten were the tiny little furry mice. Give him one of them and as soon as it was in his mouth he growl like a fury and throw it in the air and retrieve it and finally chew the tail off. Once he'd chew the tail off he'd lose interest, until I would get out the bag (I bought them by the bagful for that reason! :gasp and asked if he wanted one, he'd go nuts again! :flrt: I so miss Harry, he was a one-off cat!


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

lol, boot laces, arent allowed in our house, as they EAT them! lol!!

And chewing tails off of mice sounds familiar! .. simba ... I was going to add a video, but I canny find it!





feorag said:


> It doesn't matter how much research you do, you'll never know everything - we don't know everything even with years of experience, but you cannot beat actual experience over research either.
> 
> A must-have in my house is extra long leather bootlaces - mine loved it and when we had litters of kittens it was great cos one would pick it up and run and the rest would chase - so we got a rest! :lol2:
> 
> ...


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

You are all making me jealous! My cat is only two and I have tried millions of different toys she will not play at all she flicks it with her paw lazily and that is it.She is far more interested in balancing on top of huge flat screen tvs and nearly knocking them over! 

Enjoy your new kitten when you get him OP boys tend to be so cheeky! 
-Chels


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## harlequin (Oct 28, 2008)

He's Here! :2thumb:
He's really friendly, hasn't left his room yet but has had a sleep, some dinner and has sniffed noses with the dog through the door gate - both were really calm and non aggressive, cat was just a bit wary but really happy with their first meeting 
Just need to decide on a name now, i'm really struggling to find 'the right one' lol will get some photos up soon, haven't even taken any yet, just been too busy playing with him haha
lets hope everything continues to go as well as his first day has 
Jess


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sounds like a great start! :2thumb:

Shall look forward to seeing his pictures!


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## RescueCat (Aug 13, 2011)

I know you're only getting the one now, but my mum has a brother and sister pair and they always did play with each other in the exact same way! Hitting toys to each other, running past and smacking the other (They still do this at 3 years old), and they are always snuggled up together and grooming each other.

It depends on the cat, really though. Our girl is "special" and isn't a normal behaving cat (we've had the vet look at her, even he said she was "weird"!) so that might have an effect on it, but sometimes a brother and sister pair still work out!


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