# royal genetics



## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

hi can someone tell me all the co-dom genes in royals please also thought it might be an idea to have one thread for all royal genetice so everyone can learn what is what. cheers taff.: victory::2thumb:

ps don't know if this has already been done but nothing comes up on a search. apologies if it has. cheers taff.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Ok, just copied my post from other thread :2thumb:.

The Co-doms are (sorry if i've missed any):

Pastel
Lesser
Mojave
Fire
Cinnamon
Yellowbelly
Black Pastel
Butter
Chocolate
Enchi
Granite
Mystic
Phantom
Sable
Special
Specter
Spotnose
Vanilla


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

corny girl said:


> Ok, just copied my post from other thread :2thumb:.
> 
> The Co-doms are (sorry if i've missed any):
> 
> ...



pinstripe


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

corny girl said:


> Ok, just copied my post from other thread :2thumb:.
> 
> The Co-doms are (sorry if i've missed any):
> 
> ...


 sorry thought i should put it in the right section! lol
cheers so tell me what is a spider then as i thought this to be co-dom?
cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> sorry thought i should put it in the right section! lol
> cheers so tell me what is a spider then as i thought this to be co-dom?
> cheers taff


spider is co dom aswell


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> spider is co dom aswell


 ok and i take it by putting 2 co-dom together you get traights of both genes in the resulting clutch? as in spiderx lemon pastel = bumble bee etc?
cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> ok and i take it by putting 2 co-dom together you get traights of both genes in the resulting clutch? as in spiderx lemon pastel = bumble bee etc?
> cheers taff


yes spider to pastel =bumblebee

pastel x pinstripe = lemonblast


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> yes spider to pastel =bumblebee
> 
> pastel x pinstripe = lemonblast


cool and a super form i.e super pastel is pastel x pastel? or not?
cheers taff.


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> cool and a super form i.e super pastel is pastel x pastel? or not?
> cheers taff.


pastel x pastel 

25% normal
50% pastel
25% super pastel


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> pastel x pastel
> 
> 25% normal
> 50% pastel
> 25% super pastel


ok cheers kingball i think im starting to get it now! lol 

so what if you were to put 2 supers together i.e super pastel x super spider what would happen then? would you get super bumblebee, super spider, spider, super pastel, pastel, normal? or am i not getting it yet? lol
cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> ok cheers kingball i think im starting to get it now! lol
> 
> so what if you were to put 2 supers together i.e super pastel x super spider what would happen then? would you get super bumblebee, super spider, spider, super pastel, pastel, normal? or am i not getting it yet? lol
> cheers taff


there is no super spider people say spider to spider breeding is a bad gene 
if you put super pastel to a spider you will get

50% bumblebee
50% super pastel


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> there is no super spider people say spider to spider breeding is a bad gene
> if you put super pastel to a spider you will get
> 
> 50% bumblebee
> 50% super pastel


 is that to do with the head wobble?
ok so if i put 2 different supers together would i get along the same lines as described? cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

not to sure the story behind the bad gene tbh

if you put super pastel x super pastel 

you would get all supers


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> not to sure the story behind the bad gene tbh
> 
> if you put super pastel x super pastel
> 
> you would get all supers


 what if you put a super pastel with another super form? cinnimon?
cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> what if you put a super pastel with another super form? cinnimon?
> cheers taff


100% pewter


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Pinstripe & Spider are Dominant not Co-dominant :2thumb: (there is no super form that has been recorded). Just double checked it with John Berrys book too & he says both are Dominant :2thumb:.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

kingball said:


> there is no super spider people say spider to spider breeding is a bad gene
> if you put super pastel to a spider you will get
> 
> 50% bumblebee
> 50% super pastel


 
This is what Im planning to do with my Super Pastel when shes a bit bigger.


Edit: Woops no Im not, mis-read im doing...


Super Pastel x Bumblebee


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

corny girl said:


> Pinstripe & Spider are Dominant not Co-dominant :2thumb: (there is no super form that has been recorded). Just double checked it with John Berrys book too & he says both are Dominant :2thumb:.


so they are:blush:

i just watched over a vid from bhb and he says pins are co dom


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> so they are:blush:


right am i right in saying that the super pastels are a dominant? 
cheers taff


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> right am i right in saying that the super pastels are a dominant?
> cheers taff


co-dominant


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> co-dominant


so is this not right then?

*Co-Dominant: *
The genetic pattern of co-dominant genes is essentially the same as the genetic pattern of the simple recessive genes, except, that heterozygous “het” animals are visibly different than normal animals. These visible "hets" can be bred together to produce a mutation, called a “Super”. The "Super" is also the dominant form of a co-dominant gene​


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

my brain is gonna explode:devil:


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> my brain is gonna explode:devil:


lol sorry! :whistling2:: victory:


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

im still learning genetics myself its to dam confusing

but super pastel is Co-Dominant i have just checked this on ralph davis website and he is the king of ball pythons:lol2:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Super Pastel is dominant yes, Pastels are co-dom however.


A Super Pastel is the homozygous form of a pastel : victory:


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## kingball (Jun 21, 2009)

Spuddy said:


> Super Pastel is dominant yes, Pastels are co-dom however.
> 
> 
> A Super Pastel is the homozygous form of a pastel : victory:


on ralphs website he says super pastels are Co-Dominant


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

kingball said:


> im still learning genetics myself its to dam confusing


 i know lol so if a super pastel is a dominant and a spider is a dominant you wouldn't be able to creat a super spider in theory? could be why it hasn't been done? does that sound right?
cheers taff


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

He got it wrong, im 99.9% sure Super Pastels are dominant. 

One minute I will go check my bible however and get back to you.


Bible = John Berry, Designer Morphs


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Yep, Super Pastel is definetly a dominant colour mutation.


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

so would this be right then?


taffs reptiles said:


> i know lol so if a super pastel is a dominant and a spider is a dominant you wouldn't be able to creat a super spider in theory? could be why it hasn't been done? does that sound right?
> cheers taff





Spuddy said:


> Yep, Super Pastel is definetly a dominant colour mutation.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

taffs reptiles said:


> so would this be right then?


 
Im not sure on whether it is possible to create super spiders, however I would of thought you wouldnt be able to create one.

For example with Pastel been co-dom, there is one pastel gene present and one normal. 

So when this is bred with another pastel, if both pastel genes are transferred to the hatchling is becomes a super pastel carrying two copies of the pastel gene. 

But a spider been a dominant morph, already has two copies of spider anyways, so in a way, it is already its super form. 

I may be wrong, but thats the way I see it, what makes sense to me.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Spuddy said:


> Im not sure on whether it is possible to create super spiders, however I would of thought you wouldnt be able to create one.


The jury is still out on that question. Nobody has reported a super spider, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.



Spuddy said:


> For example with Pastel been co-dom, there is one pastel gene present and one normal.


This is wrong. The pastel gene is codominant to the normal gene. A pastel royal python with a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene is a het pastel or pastel [1 copy]. 



Spuddy said:


> So when this is bred with another pastel, if both pastel genes are transferred to the hatchling is becomes a super pastel carrying two copies of the pastel gene.


This is correct.



Spuddy said:


> But a spider been a dominant morph, already has two copies of spider anyways, so in a way, it is already its super form.


This is wrong. A dominant morph is produced by the action of a mutant gene that is dominant to the normal gene. The same dominant morph is produced when there are two dominant mutant genes or when there is one dominant mutant gene paired with a normal gene. This is the mirror image of a recessive morph. On the other hand, a codominant mutant gene produces two morphs. One from two mutant genes, and one from a single mutant gene paired with a normal gene.

By the way, a codominant mutant gene does not become dominant when there are two copies of the gene in the gene pair. Anytime you see a web page saying this, you can be pretty sure that the author doesn't know as much about genetics as he thinks.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

taffs reptiles said:


> so is this not right then?
> 
> *Co-Dominant: *
> The genetic pattern of co-dominant genes is essentially the same as the genetic pattern of the simple recessive genes, except, that heterozygous “het” animals are visibly different than normal animals. These visible "hets" can be bred together to produce a mutation, called a “Super”. The "Super" is also the dominant form of a co-dominant gene​


It's not right.

A mutant gene is dominant/codominant/recessive to the normal gene. The classification depends on the appearance of an individual with a mutant gene paired with a normal gene.

Two normal genes --> a normal snake
Two mutant genes --> snake with full mutant appearance

1 mutant gene and 1 normal gene -->
a. snake looks like snake with two normal genes. Mutant gene is recessive to normal gene.
b. snake looks like snake with two mutant genes. Mutant gene is dominant to normal gene.
c. snake does not look like snake with two normal genes, and snake does not look like snake with two mutant genes. Mutant gene is codominant to normal gene.

The "Super" is the appearance produced when there are two copies of a codominant mutant gene in the gene pair (is homozygous for the mutant).
Some people also call a snake with two copies of a dominant mutant gene a "super". 

Clear as mud?


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

A Co-Dominant gene is still a Co-Dominant gene regardless of whether its Heterozygous or Homozygous.

So a Super Pastel (Homozygous Pastel) is just two Co-Dominant genes, the gene does not change to Dominant.


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## taffs reptiles (May 26, 2010)

paulh said:


> It's not right.
> 
> A mutant gene is dominant/codominant/recessive to the normal gene. The classification depends on the appearance of an individual with a mutant gene paired with a normal gene.
> 
> ...


 ok i think i get that now. and yea it is clear as mud! lmao interesting stuff though!:2thumb: cheers taff


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