# Medium sized lizards.



## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

My new viv should be arriving any day now, and when I'v been paid on the 29th I'l be able to start setting it up. My only problem is I still can't figure out what I want! I'd like a Veiled chameleon and have researched them for probably about a year now (wanted one ages ago but parents wouldn't allow it) but only having one to a viv puts me off a little. I'd like something that I can either breed or keep in a group, and isn't going to cost me an arm and a leg. Someone on another forum said prehensile tailed skinks, but I saw a 1.1.1 trio for £900 which is abit out of my range!

The vivs 3ft long, 4ft tall and 15''? deep. Any recomendations?
It's got to be either- breedable in this viv, capable of living in groups and handleable* not too important though.

I'm really not into leo geckos or beardies, and the tall viv would be wasted on them anyway. Oh yeh and its going to be right next to my bed, so not too smelly or noisy at night

Thanks
Chris


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## PeaceandLove (Aug 27, 2006)

a frilled dragon would be nice but i'm not sure if 3ft long is enough..to a baby frilled yes, but to an adult i'm not sure..

and how much is deep? is that 15 what?


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## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

Yeh thats 15 inch from the front glass to the back. I like the look of frilled lizards, but I just don;t think my viv is big enough for one, and thats the only space I have for one really.

thnks anyway though


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

wouldnt it have made more sense to decide which rep you want, then but the viv to suit it, not buy the rep to suit the viv?
just my opinion.


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## PeaceandLove (Aug 27, 2006)

well 15inch deep is not enough, frilleds can get 80cm..u can put a baby one there and build a bigest viv..but with that size u can put a cham, or collareds but is to tall, it's space for nothing.. :?


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Collards will often climb i think if given the chance.


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

4ft high is fine for collards. I think the only problems going to be the 15in depth because they do enjoy thier floor space to rear up and run too. I can only think of chameleons or anoles but anoles are very rarely handable.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

> The vivs 3ft long, 4ft tall and 15''? deep. Any recomendations?
> It's got to be either- breedable in this viv, capable of living in groups and handleable* not too important though.


Plenty of options

Anoles, one male, 3 females, perfect. Green,brown,knight etc, worth lookin into.

Day geckos... er..prolly again, 1:3.

[neither of the above handleable really]

Possibly a pair of the smaller uromastyx species, dont quote me on that one, they are ground dweling yes but as they like digging/living in tunnels underground] then 2 ft of the 4 ft could be substrate.

trio of collards probably.

Nocturnal but arboreal geckos, golden geckos, cresties, and others would be good in group of 1;3 or so also.


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## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

markhill said:


> wouldnt it have made more sense to decide which rep you want, then but the viv to suit it, not buy the rep to suit the viv?
> just my opinion.


I see where your coming from, but in my case no it wouldn't. You see the only place I could put the viv is in my room, which is very small. And thats the only space there is. I figured if I cant' go long it makes sense to go higher. And I cant really go higher then 4 ft as the parents only just agreed to let me get this size. I also can't go wider as I have a fish tank on the otherside of the room so a 2ft wide tank wouldn't leave me much room to actually make it to my bed lol. Abit of a long winded explanation but you get what I mean right?

Its not really a disadvantage as I havn't commited to buying any animal yet, so I can take the time to fully decide what I want, set the viv up and make sure its as close to perfect for my chosen pet as possible (thats where you guys come in with critisisms and suggestions  )


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## bloodxonxyourxhands (Dec 12, 2006)

water dragons.....i'm pretty sure you could get away with at least 1.1 in there... could make it a really nice set up then too


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Eyed Lizards ! they would utilise the hight, or you could add shelving to give them more floor space.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

I dont think it's sensible to buy something that will breed if you dont have room for a separate viv. Often the males can be relentless and the females suffer. Do you have the experience in keeping with any of the above named species? It would benefit you to buy something you like, not something that you can breed.

Often adults will eat hatchlings, or can bully them and so they will need to be housed separately for the time being. Also, you should really consider WHAT you might breed, some species are more popular than others, you might find yourself with babies you have problems rehoming. 

As an example: Chams can't be kept together anyway, but often folk will have one on breeding loan to put in with a female. If you breed chams you could find yourself with 50+ hatchlings at once, usually not hard to find homes for, but require a lot of care and livefood...... all of which will need to be grown on a little before being rehomed (normally 4 to 8 weeks). 60 baby chams will eat a LOT of crickets in a month between them, and take up a lot of space, even if kept in the same viv. Even other species will often lay multiple eggs, leaving you with the same problem on a smaller scale. Either way, if you are new to the hobby you should really learn to walk before you can run. Collareds, as mentioned above will need a lot of floor space, min 3ft x 18

Eyed Lizards are beautiful, I dont know if they climb though, but they do breed readily in captivity so might want to buy females only. Day Geckos again are beautiful, crested geckos too but they "talk" to each other, maybe you wont want the noise in your bedroom. Anoles are great, I'd get females only though, they arent as easy to keep as some might have you beleive, and a male can cause a lot of friction. If you decided to breed later you could always add a male, they will lay and hatch in the viv if conditions are right, and dont usually eat hatchlings either.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

> Either way, if you are new to the hobby you should really learn to walk before you can run.


Agreed, the last thing you want if you have limited space is to get in over your head and then either get fed up with all the problems of keeping babies or have your parents say you have to get rid of them all because its too much... it does happen i've heard of it so many times!

I like the idea of eyed lizards but i dont know very much about them so i couldnt comment more. My area of experience is with geckos and tree frogs and some arboreal geckos, or tree frogs actually would love that space.
Look into the Rhacodactylus species, Cresteds are fantastic and you could get 3 -4 females in that space (if you get a male they WILL breed though and more than 1 male cant be housed together like most spp.). The Gargoyle geckos are in the same family and care is practically identical, but they look a bit chunckier and get a little heavier. The Chahouas are a bit more on the expesive side as are the other Rhacodactlyus and a little more temperamental to a new keeper so i'd look primarily at the Cresteds and Gargoyles. (if you decide to go for these then pm me and i know a guy who may have some just about ready to be sexable). They're pretty handlable too

Bascially, i commend you for doing your research 1st, but if a cham is what you want... then make sure the set up is perfect THEN get it. What is your viv ade of? because ive heard they do better in mostly screen vivs with lots of ventilation. I've also been told that chams have more than enough personalituy to get over the problem of just having 1.!


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## superhannahmarie (Jan 4, 2007)

Jewelled Lacertas (Proper name for 'Eyed Lizards' - :roll: ) are semi arboreal and would do well in a viv that size, although I wouldnt keep a sexed pair in together permanantly because;

A) The male will hassle the female non-stop and probably end up hurting her (I had a female brought to me last year with about 4 regrowths on her tail - a stump on a stump on a stump - and a big wound on her flank from where the male had tried to get hold of her and she'd rolled away from him croc-style)

B) She will just keep on laying clutch after clutch - once every 3 weeks or so. This might sound great but after a few months she will be so exhausted and unhealthy that all the eggs will be slugs and you will have a very sick female to deal with.

In light of this I would say go for either one really big handsome male, or a pair of females. If you decide you want to breed then you will need to buy a couple of smaller vivs anyway - one for your visiting male and one for your babies. 

I am planning to bring my breeding stock out of brumation in the next few weeks so if you do want some Lacertas then PM me and I'll put you on the waiting list for this years' hatchlings.

Hannah


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## welshgaz (Dec 12, 2005)

I reckon you could get a massive colony of Anoles or most Gecko types in there! Make that look sweeeet! TBH though I reckon you could get away with a single bearded dragon in there... .They will use logs for climbing if given half the chance!

Your problem is the 15" width, its not really suitable for most lizards...


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Maybe not Beardies but Rankins or Vittikins?


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## welshgaz (Dec 12, 2005)

No I think you could fit a Pogona Vitticeps in there even if there is only 15" of width... You have to utilize the height in the viv though... Perhaps add a few more shelves, plenty of climbing logs and a couple of basking areas...


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

superhannahmarie said:


> Jewelled Lacertas (Proper name for 'Eyed Lizards' - :roll: )
> 
> Hannah


Actually the proper name..if there is such a thing would be _Lacerta lepida_, the latin name with any other names being common or possibly not so common names.


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## superhannahmarie (Jan 4, 2007)

> Actually the proper name..if there is such a thing would be Lacerta lepida, the latin name with any other names being common or possibly not so common names.


_Lacerta lepida_ is the taxonomic or latin name of the species, having been re-classified from the now obsolete classification _Timon lepidus _. 

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. Jewelled Lacerta is the correct 'common' name for the species, with 'Eyed Lizard', 'Jewelled Lizard' and 'Peal Lizard' being other common names often used incorrectly for this species. The true Eyed Lizard is actually a very small and boring species of agamid from Asia that is not kept in captivity to my knowledge.

Hannah


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

ok, id dissagree that there is such things as a correct common name or an incorect one personaily as only scientific names can be correct internationally.

But thats cool, guess it just depends which way you look at and what you think of common names and how much weight they are suposed to carry.


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## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks for all the advise guys, its much appreciated. 

I'v taken it all onboard and I think I'l go with a smaller species. Im going to look into all the different gecko types, and the anoles.

Smaller species that lay small numbers of eggs would be good as I'm sure that if my mum saw eggs or a pregnent lizard she'd allow me to put another tank or two on top of this one.

I can't remember all the questions asked but one was 'whats the viv made from'? Its wood on three sides with the front being glass sliding doors, a wooden strip and then another glass panel. If I did decide on a cham I'd probably take out the glass panel and replace with mesh.




> make sure the set up is perfect THEN get it


Oh deffinately. Nothing live will enter the viv untill i'v had the opinions of you guys.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

cool man.

most geckos are nocturnal which kinda takes some fun out of the set up..defo look at day geckos and anoles man.


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## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

Anoles would be good as they always seem active in the shops and are easily obtainable..and cheap 

I'd love to keep Tokay geckos but the noise puts me right off them

I don't mind small noises in the night, one of my hermit crabs in the marine tank spends all night tapping on the glass (I swear it does it just to try and ennoy me) and I'v gotten used to that. Its just loud screeching, singing, or barking noises that would disturb my sleep.

What do people think of olive tree skinks or neon blue tailed tree lizards?


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Blue tailed skinks are blue only until maturity, then their tails turn beigish brown. They are also known as Five Lined Skinks


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

superhannahmarie said:


> Jewelled Lacertas (Proper name for 'Eyed Lizards' - :roll: ) are semi arboreal and would do well in a viv that size, although I wouldnt keep a sexed pair in together permanantly because;
> 
> A) The male will hassle the female non-stop and probably end up hurting her (I had a female brought to me last year with about 4 regrowths on her tail - a stump on a stump on a stump - and a big wound on her flank from where the male had tried to get hold of her and she'd rolled away from him croc-style)
> 
> ...



Actually the PROPER name for eyed lizards is Lacerta lepida , as a 'breeder' you should know this :roll: 
And they would not lay every three weeks, they average two clutches to four a year.
There is a very good care sheet on thelizardwizard.co.uk
If you are considering 'eyeds' feel free to contact me I am not tring to sell to you (already have a long waiting list !) but I am happy to point you in the direction of good breeders.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

already mentioned that "proper" name bit


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

chriscollier said:


> Anoles would be good as they always seem active in the shops and are easily obtainable..and cheap


Please dont be fooled by the price tag, if you have a tank that big you will prob need a 10% UV bulb, prob even two as they are meant to be within 12 inches of it to gain any benefit, in a 4ft tall tank you might not acheive this, plus if this is the case you'll need two starter units to match. They are not especially "Easy" to keep as such either, they can be fussy and even the females can bully each other.

As you dont already own reps can I ask are you experienced in keeping them, and why the necessity to breed reptiles? 

It seems as though you dont mind what it is as long as it can be kept in a group or bred, can I ask is there any particular reason for this? Just Curious


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

instead of one four foot high viv, cant you split it into two, two foot high vivs, that way you could have two types :lol:


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## chriscollier (Mar 24, 2006)

gan1 said:


> chriscollier said:
> 
> 
> > Anoles would be good as they always seem active in the shops and are easily obtainable..and cheap
> ...


I'm not bothered about spending a large amount of money on equipment. I was planning on buying the best equipment I could afford anyway. I mentioned them being cheap a bonus as it won't dent my wallet any further  

I don't exactly have the experience most of you have. Infact I'v only personally kept a leo gecko, an Ouchita map turtle and a rescue case skink. But I'v always been intrested in herps from an early age and do alot of reading on them. Also learnt quite abit from an expert who goes under the name Crockeeper on another site. I know this doesnt entitle me to jump straight in and buy an iguana or something else I clearly can't keep but I believe i'm responsable enough to be trusted with species that are abit of a challenge. 

Breeding isn't really a necessity, but I like a challenge, and what could be more rewarding then making your pets so happy in their environment that they breed? And the reason why I'd like a group is so I can enjoy watching my pets interact with each other. Not a necessity but would be a bonus.

Oh and Markhill, I suppose I could split it as I could replace the bottom glass panel with another door, but I'd really like to make it look impressive with liveplants and branches going all the way upto the top. I think that would look more impressive in a 4 foot tall viv then doing it in two smaller vivs


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