# "The Anti's"



## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm curious as a lot of peopl talk about the "Anti's". I have never seen or even heard of any Anti-reptile organisation/movement or seen any publication from them. I get the feeling that it someone like myself who is in the hobby has not seen or heard anything then their influence over our hobby must be greatly exaggerated?


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## UrolithicTitan (Sep 12, 2010)

The reptile shop I go to in Nottingham had a load of protesters that lined up outside if it blocking the front door a while ago. but apart from that the only thing I know about is when Lush where/are campaining against reptile keeping. :whip:


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## stokesy (Mar 11, 2011)

I didn't know that about lush! :bash:

I didn't know about any anti organisations but occassionally hear people (my step mum included) with views in the region of; its cruel, its not natural, don't you think its unfair to keep that, - which is usually met with how do you think your dog feels? Peoples ill informed opinions don't seem to apply to the furries they own, as if there own guinea pigs etc are some native species just cos they are cute and cuddly.


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Tombo46 said:


> I'm curious as a lot of peopl talk about the "Anti's". I have never seen or even heard of any Anti-reptile organisation/movement or seen any publication from them. I get the feeling that it someone like myself who is in the hobby has not seen or heard anything then their influence over our hobby must be greatly exaggerated?


A few of us were talking about this in the line of donny.... I've been to two shows and not heard a peep from an anti but have heard in the past that they've caused shows to actually be cancelled?
I was expecting there to be loads, holding signs and shouting abuse at us :lol2:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Tombo46 said:


> I'm curious as a lot of peopl talk about the "Anti's". I have never seen or even heard of any Anti-reptile organisation/movement or seen any publication from them. I get the feeling that it someone like myself who is in the hobby has not seen or heard anything then their influence over our hobby must be greatly exaggerated?


no, it's because the anti's are currently quiet- every now & again, they pop up & launch a campaign to try to ban us from keeping reps.



UrolithicTitan said:


> The reptile shop I go to in Nottingham had a load of protesters that lined up outside if it blocking the front door a while ago. but apart from that the only thing I know about is when Lush where/are campaining against reptile keeping. :whip:


lush tried to do a lot of damage. chris newman stopped them in their tracks by complaining to the ASA about them telling lies in their anti-reptile keeping adverts. the ASA upheld the complaint & banned lush from carrying on with the adverts.



stokesy said:


> I didn't know that about lush! :bash:
> 
> I didn't know about any anti organisations but occassionally hear people (my step mum included) with views in the region of; its cruel, its not natural, don't you think its unfair to keep that, - which is usually met with how do you think your dog feels? Peoples ill informed opinions don't seem to apply to the furries they own, as if there own guinea pigs etc are some native species just cos they are cute and cuddly.


lush support PETA, who are VERY anti pet-keeping. they helped PETA with a campaign called 'i'm a chameleon- get me out of here!', claiming that reps can't survive in captivity, because they can't recognise glass barriers. lush got stopped by the ASA, for telling lies in the adverts they put up in their shops. the ironic thing is that a lot of rep keepers use lush products, but in doing so, they are financing the enemy!



Chris18 said:


> A few of us were talking about this in the line of donny.... I've been to two shows and not heard a peep from an anti but have heard in the past that they've caused shows to actually be cancelled?


this is true. they have done a lot of damage in the past, & will no doubt try to do so again.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Im sorry but just because you dont see them waving their placards and hear them shouting abuse doesnt mean they arent there. They make continued and determined efforts to get Doncaster Councel to stop the licencing of the IHS shows. They have secretly filmed shows for propoganda videos, submitted biast and distorted reports to the media and I believe have also targetted the shows organisational staff. They are not a fantasy of a paranoid reptile keeper.

The best sources of information are the posts by Chris Newman, the Chairman of the British Reptile and Exotic Pet Trade Assosciation and commitee member of the Federation of British Herpetologists.

When he speaks of the agenda to end all pet keeping including companion pets in the UK within 10 years it makes you take notice. When you read the masses of evidence he presents to show this is a very real threat, it actually scares you. It sounds sensational but Im afraid what Chris speaks about is a very real threat. There is no point in saying this kind of thing cant happen because it could.

When you realise that the antis were commisioned to write reports against reptile keeping by the RSPCA, when you read that activists who have been prosecuted sit on the RSPCA commitee, when you realise government committees on animal welfare have funding from animal rights groups, you begin to realise the future of our hobby is under serious threat. Even scarier is the fact it wont stop at reptiles as pets, Fido, Tiddles and Joey are under the same threat.

Dont take my word for it though. Visit the the Hobby Issues and Information section of the forum and do a search. Look up some of Chris Newmans threads but also do a broader search looking for info about the antis. I can guarantee that after you have done so that you will realise the antis are a significant threat to the hobby.

Heres a link to get you started.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/hobby-issues-information/113568-future-keeping-reptiles.html

Heres one fairly recent example of the far reaching effect of the antis. Focus used to sell pets including fish and in some stores reptiles and equipment. They no longer sell these which many would argue isnt a bad thing. However the reason they ceased this is aspect of trading is a bad thing. It was because they were formally targeted by one of the main anti organisations and placed under such pressure they caved in and stopped all animal assosciated sales. The antis celebrated this as a victory and then asked.....whose next.

The risk is real, its just the majority of people arent aware of the devious work going on in the background. The chances are that by the time everyone is aware, by the time everyone believes it, it will be too darn late,

If you look at the last paragraph to the above link and click the Animal Rights and Future of the Pet Industry Link you will have a very interesting and informative read.


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## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

A lot of stuff here I was unaware of. Very scary stuff indeed! Thanks for the link Mal, it makes fantastic reading.

There was mention in the article about stopping wild caught bird's coming in to the country. A good friend of mine opened a parrot sanctuary in Friskney near Skegness and tried for years to stop the importation of wild birds....unsuccessfully. It was said it would be too difficult to moderate and would take years to set up. It was eventually stopped because of one reason. BIRD FLU! It happened pretty quick too.

Im getting off topic now anyway. I didn't realise the sheer scale of people who want to put a stop to our hobby. And whenever anyone mentioned "the anti's" there was no specific mention of anyone in particular, it all seemed a little bit like chinese whispers. Kind of like how every year my customer's tell me there's going to be a massive shortage of christmas tree's...

Out of interest, have they made any significant progress? and what exactly can we do to stop it?

I'm going to really go and put my neck on the line here and say that after some of the things I have seen in the reptile "community", It has crossed my mind that if I could just flip a switch and stop reptile keeping altogether, I would. Not because of the great keeper's I have encountered, but because of the bad ones. I often wonder whether the banning of keeping would infact be the right thing to do in respect of the greater good. Don't get me wrong here. It's just what I have derived from personal experience. Kind of like the way I think alcohol should be banned in the UK, as a majority I believe we simply do not know how to enjoy it properly and as a whole the country would be better off without it. That's not to say a lot of people can enjoy it responsibly. That's a whole different argument though but I thought I'd use it to try and explain what I mean better, thus negating any harsh replies!

Thanks again for your input everyone =]


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

It is scary stuff indeed. I think the days of placard waving yobs have somewhat faded. The devious covert tactics however are getting worse. The fact they have become such a strong presence in the upper echelons of organisations such as the RSPCA, that they can extend their reach to Govermental levels is very worrying. The fact they have such financial wealth behind them makes them a very serious and credible threat. The methods may have changed but their objectives havent. This is why all rep keepers should unite and join organisaions such as the BHS and IHS. Look beyond the shows to the real reason they need our support. Organisations such as these need the membership if they are to fight on our behalf to preserve our rights to enjoy the hobby ee love.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Ah man. I love lush products. I didn't realise that they were anti reptile. Ah well I'll have to buy other smellies instead.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Tombo46 said:


> A lot of stuff here I was unaware of. Very scary stuff indeed! Thanks for the link Mal, it makes fantastic reading.
> 
> There was mention in the article about stopping wild caught bird's coming in to the country. A good friend of mine opened a parrot sanctuary in Friskney near Skegness and tried for years to stop the importation of wild birds....unsuccessfully. It was said it would be too difficult to moderate and would take years to set up. It was eventually stopped because of one reason. BIRD FLU! It happened pretty quick too.
> 
> ...


the problem here, is that, if the anti's read your post, they would consider you potentially one of their allies.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

wilkinss77 said:


> the problem here, is that, if the anti's read your post, they would consider you potentially one of their allies.[/QUOTE
> I would be highly surprised if the antis havent read Tombos post,yours, mine and thousands of other peoples posts. RFUK is a little window that looks in on a large portion of the reptile keeping community. You dont even need to be a member to look through the window. This is one way some of the appalling behaviour and poor standards of care often seen in the various threads can be used against the hobby. A forum such as this is a great place to gather evidence and intelligence. First rule of battle 'know your enemy'. Unfortunately as far as the antis are concerned we are the enemy


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## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> the problem here, is that, if the anti's read your post, they would consider you potentially one of their allies.


Mal pretty much said what I was going to say. My post was just an opinion and if there was a button next to it that said "erase all the bad keepers from existence" I'd push that one instead. There isn't exactly a shortage of ammo on here looking at some of the posts. Unfortunately there will always be people who hold animals in a higher regard than others and everyone will have differing opinions on what's right and wrong including the more extreme views of the Anti's that no animal should be in captivity. My opinion means nothing in the grand scale of things. I can do my bit to try and improve the hobby and that's all.

Unfortunately democracy disappears where money is involved, this is the scary thing you learn in the "future of reptile keeping" link that Mal directed me to. I will refer once again to the alcohol argument. If someone came along and said "Ive invented this liquid that makes you happy in small amounts, but if drunk in excess can cause injury, poor health, violence and even death". Would the government just say "yes you can sell that, just make sure people don't abuse it!" no, they would send them packing but because it is part of our lives and it generates so much money, it's fine. I have a more extreme view in this than most, but Im biased as I grew up with a violent alcoholic mother. Like with drinking, there will always be people who abuse reptiles and those who respect them with proper care. The only thing we have going for us is the fact that it is intertwined in so many people's lives that it would meet significant resistance, which I bloody well hope works because we certainly don't have the financial advantage!


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

why do reptile keepers persist in using lush products, even knowing full well that by doing so, they are financing a company that supports the antis?


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## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

wilkinss77 said:


> why do reptile keepers persist in using lush products, even knowing full well that by doing so, they are financing a company that supports the antis?


Not everyone knows. I think most keepers who know about it don't though


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Tombo46 said:


> Not everyone knows. I think most keepers who know about it don't though


2 or 3 in this forum spring to mind- & they know full well what lush are all about.


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

hiya

theres quite afew groups against 'exotic' pets

i've seen groups protest, mostly around reptile shops


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

These are the biggest problem to our hobby.Animal Protection Agency
Lush have supported them, it's a shame there are still some of us not aware of that.

We hear less of them now, but only because they are more into Europe and changing the laws on exotic pet keeping.

Success in the USA and Europe will filter down to us in the UK, they are looking to ban shows, breeding, importing, and any reptiles that could escape and successfully live. 

Well thats the plan.


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