# Keeping rodent tubs dry



## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

All my rodents are in lab cages or glass tanks (mainly lab cages), I use wood shavings and give them hay/shredded newspaper to nest in when its cold. But within 2 / 3 days they are soaking and need cleaning.

Sometimes this is due to them pushing bedding around the bottles and causing them to leak out, however most of the time its purely from them weeing and it just seems to build up and not evaporate. Now I know most people only clean once a week, how do you let them go this long? The shed door its kept shut to keep the heat in at the moment so there is very little ventilation, would opening it during the day help at all? When they do get cleaned (every 4 / 5 days at most) their whole tubs are soggy which isn't good for them.

Any ideas on how to keep them dryer? To keep them bone dry I would have to clean them every other day which is just a pain, surely they shouldn't get that wet.

The only things that stay dry are the gerbils.


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## scoobylyn (Nov 24, 2009)

Do you have to keep them in labs? If you can get them into cages like a Freddy cage and bed them on shredded cardboard not only will they get better ventilation and space they will last longer in between cleans. A bale of finacard costs £13.99 delivered to your door. In my opinion a cheaper and healthier option for the rodents. If you are breeding mice then they freddy cages are excellent cages for mice as they can't escape through bars.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

Yea they are staying in lab cages, spent enough on them so they are staying in them. 

I'm hoping its just the time of year, and that being wet / cold outside means that no moisture evaporates from their bedding and that it will improve as it gets warmer. 

Should shredded cardboard stay dryer than wood shavings?


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## scoobylyn (Nov 24, 2009)

Rodents, and I presume we are talking rats, have very sensitive respiratory systems and if anything is going to make them sick (and they can go from sick to dead very easy) it is poor ventilation and poor bedding. Fungus is very bad for rats. Shavings are full of dust which coupled with poor ventilation in rubs is a recipe for disaster. Cardboard bedding is certainly a much better choice if there is a choice.

Of course condensation build up inside the shed doesn't do them any good, but then in the summer you will then have the problem of excessive temperatures and rubs and lab cages get very very hot.

You asked an opinion of what is best and the best is cages as it allows far more airflow..... but lab cages are cheaper!


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

Having the door open seems to have helped a bit so far, they are all clean so will see how I get on with better ventilation. I will try the card bedding however if they still seem damp after a few days.

The cage cages / RUBs they are in give plently of ventilation, I did think about using wire cages with wire floors before I got them lab cages but thought babies would fall through / get stuck so decided against it. 

In the summer they will move into the garage when it gets too hot, or I have an air con unit, either way they won't be left to overheat.


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## Riff (Nov 12, 2009)

It sounds like we have almost the same rat set up, i clean mine out every 3/4/5 days, my lab cages have 3 females to a cage and a male when the time comes for breeding, they can go 5 days but my growing on cages have 10 weaners approx pending on how big they are, these i clean every 3 days.
I spend much more time sorting the rats out than i ever seem to spend with the snakes. The wood shavings i use seems to have almost no dust and seems ok, i did use a cat litter, not sure of the name, it was exellent but far to expensive, was costing me £20 a week to do 10 cages, but after 6/7 days was still fine and no smell at all.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

Riff said:


> It sounds like we have almost the same rat set up, i clean mine out every 3/4/5 days, my lab cages have 3 females to a cage and a male when the time comes for breeding, they can go 5 days but my growing on cages have 10 weaners approx pending on how big they are, these i clean every 3 days.
> I spend much more time sorting the rats out than i ever seem to spend with the snakes. The wood shavings i use seems to have almost no dust and seems ok, i did use a cat litter, not sure of the name, it was exellent but far to expensive, was costing me £20 a week to do 10 cages, but after 6/7 days was still fine and no smell at all.


Where do you keep yours? In a shed? I also spend more time with the rodents than the snakes! 

The shavings I use are pretty low in dust, I house mice, rats, multies and gerbils like this and they all get damp apart from the gerbils who seem to stay pretty clean / dry. So my issue is keeping the bedding dry, hopefully improved ventilation will help that. Cleaning every few days is a pain now, but will be stupid when I'm upto breeding the numbers I eventually want to be producing.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

James_and_Hana said:


> All my rodents are in lab cages or glass tanks (mainly lab cages), I use wood shavings and give them hay/shredded newspaper to nest in when its cold. But within 2 / 3 days they are soaking and need cleaning.
> 
> Sometimes this is due to them pushing bedding around the bottles and causing them to leak out, however most of the time its purely from them weeing and it just seems to build up and not evaporate. Now I know most people only clean once a week, how do you let them go this long? The shed door its kept shut to keep the heat in at the moment so there is very little ventilation, would opening it during the day help at all? When they do get cleaned (every 4 / 5 days at most) their whole tubs are soggy which isn't good for them.
> 
> ...


Are you sure it's not down to condensation? It's quite common with tub/tank set ups (especially during the winter, in an outdoor set up), and it's a more likely answer to why the tubs are 'soggy'. Even in a small, densely populated tank, you shouldn't be getting soggy bedding after just a few days. Opening the shed door, apart from being chilly, will only create more condensation, and humidity/moisture will in the long run leave you with a set up that has little production, a very sick population and, quite simply, stinks to the high heavens.
Have you tried a different bedding such as chopped card, wood pellets or Easibed?


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Are you sure it's not down to condensation? It's quite common with tub/tank set ups (especially during the winter, in an outdoor set up), and it's a more likely answer to why the tubs are 'soggy'. Even in a small, densely populated tank, you shouldn't be getting soggy bedding after just a few days. Opening the shed door, apart from being chilly, will only create more condensation, and humidity/moisture will in the long run leave you with a set up that has little production, a very sick population and, quite simply, stinks to the high heavens.
> Have you tried a different bedding such as chopped card, wood pellets or Easibed?


I will try a different bedding if opening the door doesnt help. Out of intetrest how will opening the door create more condensation though? Surely it would lower it? I know it will make it chiller, so its only open during the day when its a bit warmer anyway (there is an oil filled rad in their too) just to try and "air them out" a bit.

Should also add that all tanks, lab or glass have fully meshed tops so ventilation should be quite good.


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## Riff (Nov 12, 2009)

James_and_Hana said:


> Where do you keep yours? In a shed? I also spend more time with the rodents than the snakes!
> 
> The shavings I use are pretty low in dust, I house mice, rats, multies and gerbils like this and they all get damp apart from the gerbils who seem to stay pretty clean / dry. So my issue is keeping the bedding dry, hopefully improved ventilation will help that. Cleaning every few days is a pain now, but will be stupid when I'm upto breeding the numbers I eventually want to be producing.



I keep mine in a shed, it is heated as my snake racks are in there as well.
I do have some gerbils, only 3 and a few pinks, they stay a lot drier than the rats. I would'nt say my rat bedding is overly damp when i change them. Im at the numbers now that i need for the moment, and in the process of buying a proper used rat rack, although ive got to travel miles to collect it.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

James_and_Hana said:


> I will try a different bedding if opening the door doesnt help. Out of intetrest how will opening the door create more condensation though? Surely it would lower it? I know it will make it chiller, so its only open during the day when its a bit warmer anyway (there is an oil filled rad in their too) just to try and "air them out" a bit.
> 
> Should also add that all tanks, lab or glass have fully meshed tops so ventilation should be quite good.


Open door in the winter = cold surrounding the tubs. With peeing, breathing, warm rats inside, you're likely to get condensation on the sides on the tanks/tubs.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Open door in the winter = cold surrounding the tubs. With peeing, breathing, warm rats inside, you're likely to get condensation on the sides on the tanks/tubs.


That would be the case if the tubs had very little ventilation, but with fully ventilated tops I can't see that happening, will keep an eye on it though.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

i keep mine in the garage, they stay in a storage tub with 4/5mm holes drilled into the top and i have a 20w heatmat under them that goes on and off through the night and mine seem pretty fine, i dont see how they would manage to be soaking just through humidity, i also use newspaper for the floor and newspaper shredded for the bedding


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

I was suprised they got so wet, when I just had mice (they were kept in the garage at this time) I didnt have this problem, but a garage is bigger so humidity wouldn't build up so quick I wouldn't have thought.

I'll see how the changes go and will come to some solution eventually. 

If having the door open (so more ventilation) doesn't work I will try a cardboard bedding.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

James_and_Hana said:


> I was suprised they got so wet, when I just had mice (they were kept in the garage at this time) I didnt have this problem, but a garage is bigger so humidity wouldn't build up so quick I wouldn't have thought.
> 
> I'll see how the changes go and will come to some solution eventually.
> 
> If having the door open (so more ventilation) doesn't work I will try a cardboard bedding.


the average humidity in my garage is about 70 - 80% and the average humidity in my cage is 80 - 90% which is pretty high, ive once seen it at 93% and the rats have still seemed pretty happy and also dry, is there any chance of a water bottle leak or something ?


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

Dont think the bottles are leaking (I never see them dripping anyway) I did replace all bottles with decent double ball bearing ones as I have them leak / clog up before, although sometimes the mice push bedding around theres and then they leak.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

i aint have a clue then mate


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

Is it actual condensation on the inside of the lab cages? Or is it the bedding feels damp? Can't quite figure out from the replies.

I keep my rats in the lucky reptile mouse haven lab cages large and don't have an issue, I clean once a week and have them in a shed with literally only enough heating to keep the frost off. I used to have condensation on tubs before I had the heater in there, it's definately cold in there just seems to keep it off damp but rats compared to mice (I keep both) pee loads, I find in the winter I tend to have to make the shavings deeper (I use large flake shavings) and tend to use straw for nesting/bedding purely because from having horses in the past the straw even if wet under on the shavings provides a nice dry area for them to be. The cages are soaked one end with pee on a once a week change unless I reduce the numbers per tub, but the bedding area is dry and warm. Rats are just messy compared to the lovely tidy and pee in one corner mice. Investing in a 33L rat rack for growing on purely because the tubs get in a state quick with litters in there.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

oakelm said:


> Is it actual condensation on the inside of the lab cages? Or is it the bedding feels damp? Can't quite figure out from the replies.
> 
> I keep my rats in the lucky reptile mouse haven lab cages large and don't have an issue, I clean once a week and have them in a shed with literally only enough heating to keep the frost off. I used to have condensation on tubs before I had the heater in there, it's definately cold in there just seems to keep it off damp but rats compared to mice (I keep both) pee loads, I find in the winter I tend to have to make the shavings deeper (I use large flake shavings) and tend to use straw for nesting/bedding purely because from having horses in the past the straw even if wet under on the shavings provides a nice dry area for them to be. The cages are soaked one end with pee on a once a week change unless I reduce the numbers per tub, but the bedding area is dry and warm. Rats are just messy compared to the lovely tidy and pee in one corner mice. Investing in a 33L rat rack for growing on purely because the tubs get in a state quick with litters in there.


Its just the bedding that get damp, the sides of the tubs are dry. Is your shed ventilated at all?

My mice are probably worse than the rats, the gerbils are fine and the multies are pretty good for keeping their tubs dry.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

whether its ventilated or not i think the humidity would still be high in non maintained structures, the mice/rats will be fine just aslong as they arent soaking wet all the time from it


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

James_and_Hana said:


> Its just the bedding that get damp, the sides of the tubs are dry. Is your shed ventilated at all?
> 
> My mice are probably worse than the rats, the gerbils are fine and the multies are pretty good for keeping their tubs dry.


Other than drafts from no insulation and the door then no, I know last year my heater broke and the entire shed got really damp, no water on the wood inside but felt damp to the touch and had soaked bedding literally 24 hours after putting it in. I ended up getting the room heater out the house and blasting it for a couple of days to fully dry it out, kept having to change the tubs too whilst doing it, after that I switched back to a tiny tube heater designed for garages, cupboards, greenhouses, etc. That's now on 24/7 in winter, and can tell if it's getting damp in there as the seasons change because the inside of my Perspex window steams up. No steam on the window then no problems with damp, my rats are due for cleaning tomorrow and had a feel of them and it's really only the one end (pee zone) that's wet. Mice just a wet pee corner. But I do put a good compacted inch of shavings in the tubs for all the pee. But yeah had gerbils too and they used to last 2 weeks and still not stink, great things but that's purely from being a desert species they don't drink as much so don't pee as much.

It sounds like you rodent area has just got to damp that it doesn't stand a chance of staying dry. I would be tempted to heat it for a couple of days to see if it helps like it did with mine. That's the only reason I have the heater, not for the temp but to stop the damp as that has always caused me more issues than the temps ever have.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

I do have a small oil filled radiator in there which I used when it was really cold, but have turned it off now its warmer as with no insulation it didnt really help much for the cost of running it but did keep the bottles from freezing when it was very cold. 

The shed walls did feel damp, but since opening the door all day today and yesterday they now feel dry. As I said earlier, I cleaned everything today so I will see how much the extra ventilation during the day helps with keeping things dry. Having the door open means it colder, but thats less likely to cause problems I would have though. 

Failing that I will just breed gerbils :lol2:


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## scoobylyn (Nov 24, 2009)

_I hadn't realised you weren't insulated. Can you not try and use some insulation as that will help a lot. My rats are in big cages in a shed that is insulated to the hilt - floor, roof and walls - and I have found even with an oil filled heater run at 800w mid setting if the temp drops below 10 degrees I notice it in the rats behaviour and they start sneezing and then get respy. My rats have lots more nesting bedding and igloos for them to hide in to keep warm. With just a rub or lab cage yes they can huddle up but they need more._


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm going to get some foil insulation and fully insulate it, should help keep production up too with it being warmer. Along with hopefully curing my damp problem!


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## scoobylyn (Nov 24, 2009)

I think the foil insulation will help no end. I have a triple insulated shed and the temperature fluctuates even with all that and a heater and some of mine are respy when the temp drops. So I think all in all yours will be better warmer and the dampness should be better.


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## JamesJ (Apr 12, 2008)

Well the insulation has improved things dramatically, after 4 days they are still pretty dry and their nesting areas are bone dry. I have also added vents to help with air flow through the shed. 

So if anyone else ever has this problem, heating / insulation seems to be the way to go.


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## nocturnalchunk (Oct 23, 2010)

mine are in the garage and when i have the heater mats on there not as damp when i come to change bedding. its just the time of year in teh summer they will be dry. 

although it means that yes you should change the bedding more often as a build up of ammonia in the cage will prove fatal.


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