# Crate Test - THE RESULTS HAVE SPOKEN!!!



## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

I have now tested the effect the crate has had on my puppy and how it has assisted in improving her behaviour, and have come back to share the results with anyone who is interested. I am fully aware that there are many people out there who are against Crate Training, but I for one could not recommend them highly enough. As you will see the results do the talking for me. So without further ado here they are:

***Please note that I have not done this to put anyone's back up, but purely for my own peace of mind that I have made the right choice in purchasing and using the crate***

Saturday: Did everything I always do on a Saturday - walk dogs, cleaning, laundry, shopping, cooking etc etc everything good and fine - After morning walk the dogs curled up asleep in the crate for most of the day until afternoon/evening walk (crate door always open SO FAR). Nothing chewed, no mischief.

Sunday: Did everything I always do on a Sunday - walk dogs, sorting out, cooking, quality time with the children and dogs etc etc ONLY THIS TIME I HAVE PACKED AWAY THE CRATE and put a clean bed down for the dogs where the crate has been kept. After walk and long long drink, Goldie curled up and went to sleep as normal, but pup was pacing in and out in and out. I sat down with her and finally settled her til she fell asleep then went upstairs and got on with some sorting out. Wasn't up there for very long and heard an almighty crash - came down to absolute chaos. She had chewed the corner of the skirting board, knocked down some ornamental candles (which she must have gone to great lengths to do as they are very high up) and chewed them up, peed on the floor, KNOCKED DOWN MY HAMMY CAGE and hammy was running scared from my 4 cats who were working together to corner her!! It wasn't even midday and I had had enough - wouldn't have lasted the whole day without running to my local beach and allowing the waves to swallow me up!!!! Decided to set the crate back up and she went in there followed by my Golden and they both fell asleep for most of the day before afternoon/evening walk (as usual).

This test proves to me (and whether it does to anyone else or not does not really come into the equation and has no bearing on my opinion or the proof, as long as it works for me and my pup, that's all that counts) that the Crate had a LOT to do with settling down her mischievous ways!

Anyone interested in crate training but a little bit sceptical, I can honestly say that it is the BEST investment I have made by far.

Thank you all for reading!!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Hey Breezy, certainly sounds like your pup values her crate well! Thats great, stick with it if it works for you! :2thumb:


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## Richo (Jan 4, 2008)

We've just given our Alsation pup a crate and, though he is still as mad as ever and always play fighting with our JRT, he does take himself in there to sleep all the time, and obviously he doesn't wreck the kitchen when we go out any more.


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

So do you shut them in the crate when you go out? Is that how it works?


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

But you didnt mention that you left her when the crate was up?

You only said that you left her after you took her bed (crate) away from her, which would understandably upset her.

My dogs are crate trained, but there is a difference between them being crate trained and using the crate as a bed with the door open and supervised, To people using them to shut there pups or dogs in for hours at a time whilst being left.

Hands up who goes to work and leaves there child locked in a metal cage on there own all day? (I'm now worried that some people may say yes to that..lol)
A puppy is like a child,they need attention, exercise, training, and interaction with people. What people dont understand is a puppy may tollerate this, but give it a few months and you could end up with a young dog with SA. The longest a puppy should be left is 1/2 hours and then build up from that over the period of a few months.

And like I said in the last post there is a risk they dog/pup can get there legs stuck in the bars of a crate or if they get upset and start chewing/digging at the bars the cage could collapse on them. I have seen both happen. So I personally will not crate my dogs whilst I am out.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

All that post proves is that the crate is more convenient for you. 

I'm not against them, although I don't have one myself. I can see they can play a part in puppy training.

But puppies chew, race around, break things. It's what they do. Anyone who can't cope with that ... well I'm not sure a puppy is a good idea for them tbh.

That wasn't aimed at the OP btw! 

Crates, when used badly, just remind me of the victorian 'children should be seen and not heard' attitude. Get the cute pup out to play with when you're in the mood, shut it away when you've had enough.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

I have to say I dont like the idea of crates but dont have personal experience to base this on.

I was always under the impression crates were for people who didn thave time to train their puppy properly or in fact just didnt have time for them, so they shouldnt have a puppy in the first place.

I did look into them as a matter of interest and it got to me the bit where a bloke said "in the wild dogs would use caves to rest in" the fact that caves dont have lockable doors i thought blew that theory up.

I guess if it works for someone then thats fine, some it doesnt and some like me dont like it but i guess we all have to learn to have our own opnion.

I dont like dog collars becuase i dont believe the best place to restrain a dog (especialy a pully one) is by it's throat, but there's no way i can get the world to ban dog collars! lol

My yorkie wears a collar but doesnt pull and usually gets the 'one leg caught in the lead' thing, but on occasion, as dogs do, has stopped to sniff a lampost and ive kept walking on pulling him my his throat. :-(

Well done to you if it does work and your puppy isnt getting locked in and using it just as a house - though im sure a Little Tykes house (without a door) would look so much nicer in the kitchen! :2thumb:


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

taraliz said:


> My yorkie wears a collar but doesnt pull and usually gets the 'one leg caught in the lead' thing, but on occasion, as dogs do, has stopped to sniff a lampost and ive kept walking on pulling him my his throat. :-(
> 
> ! :2thumb:


He's grown to big for his harness and i have one on order BTW ... lol


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

our staffy is crate trained, I dont see a problem with it, she sleeps in her crate at night and goes in it when we are out, shes very well trained in other ways in fact her list of commands she knows and does is impressive. Personal experience of using the crate is nothing but good.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> But you didnt mention that you left her when the crate was up?
> 
> You only said that you left her after you took her bed (crate) away from her, which would understandably upset her.
> 
> ...


Sorry - in a previous thread I said that she is left alone with the door open and I mentioned that on the Saturday I went shopping (indicating that she was left alone). Yes I do leave her unattended with the crate door open and it has calmed her down tenfold. She would jump up onto the sides and destroy everything, which was my reason for trying and testing the crate training. She loves it and it has aided in calming her down.

I must say that if there is a time that keeping the door open does not help when left alone, I will lock it if necessary (fortunately I have not had to do that YET). As I said, there are people out there who are for them and there are people out there against them. This was to prove to myself that I had made the right choice as I was dead set against them prior to this episode with my pup.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

SiUK said:


> our staffy is crate trained, I dont see a problem with it, she sleeps in her crate at night and goes in it when we are out, shes very well trained in other ways in fact her list of commands she knows and does is impressive. Personal experience of using the crate is nothing but good.


 
I completely agree with you si 

i use crates for most of my dogs too 

3 here dont need crating but the others do otherwise i would have no house left when i came back not to mention the safety of other animals in the house too 

the crates are used at night also an never have i used them for disceplin just for a sleep place and safe place for when i have to pop out 

my lot will gladly get into their crates with no fuss and just lay down till i return and let them out 

i dont leave them for long periods an if ever a case i had to i would have someone come in and let them out for me


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I have used crates in the past to put young puppies in to sleep, a few have been locked in overnight but thats all. Im here all day(my OH works Im just the kennel maid LOL)and enjoy my dogs company so they slob out round me or help(not) with the daily chores. I have a crate set up in the bedroom with the door open but not one of the 8 dogs that sleep upstairs uses it. If used properly crates can help but as said before too many people abuse them(not aimed at anyone just a general comment)


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

I am so not going to go through the whole 'why I did it' thing again. Bottom line is, I have a pup, I love my pup, she gets regular exercise and has free run of the house AT ALL TIMES. She was put in the kitchen when I was out to begin with, but when that didn't work I tried the crate training, placing the crate in the Living Room and taking her away from the place she was most destructive. Simple as that, nothing else to it. It works for me, works for her, works for my other dog we live happily ever after. The End :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Breezy_One said:


> I am so not going to go through the whole 'why I did it' thing again. Bottom line is, I have a pup, I love my pup, she gets regular exercise and has free run of the house AT ALL TIMES. She was put in the kitchen when I was out to begin with, but when that didn't work I tried the crate training, placing the crate in the Living Room and taking her away from the place she was most destructive. Simple as that, nothing else to it. It works for me, works for her, works for my other dog we live happily ever after. The End :lol2:


Everyone has different opinions so you are bound to get a lot of people giving their views but as long as it works for you at the end of the day thats all that matters:2thumb:


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Everyone has different opinions so you are bound to get a lot of people giving their views but as long as it works for you at the end of the day thats all that matters:2thumb:


 
I agree, if it works for you and not mis used then there is no problem, but as always someone will take it too far which tends to give the whole things a somewhat negative view.

Still think you should have a little tykes house tho (with window boxes !) .:lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

taraliz said:


> I agree, if it works for you and not mis used then there is no problem, but as always someone will take it too far which tends to give the whole things a somewhat negative view.
> 
> *Still think you should have a little tykes house tho (with window boxes !)* .:lol2:


How cute would that look........... Steeeeeeve I want a Little Tykes house for my dogs.........I dont think hes listening:lol2:


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> How cute would that look........... Steeeeeeve I want a Little Tykes house for my dogs.........I dont think hes listening:lol2:


£50 - half price in toys r us ! so much cheaper than a crate ! lol
Used mine as an outiside tortoise house. lol


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

haha!!! our pup loves his crate- he spends most the time in there- everytime you walk out of the room he jumps in and wags his tail at you, and he takes himself in there when he wants a nap. he also uses it as 'den' when he plays tag with the other dog, haha!

we do use them while we are out, because i dont like to leave them unsupervised loose together as if either of them ever turned on one another i would never forgive myself. they do playfight all the time and our pup is just getting to the stage where he is testing how far he can push our older dog for dominance, so there is always that small chance it _could_ turn nasty- there always is with dogs. no doubt we will now get slated by the people who wont crate their dogs, but on the other hand i would get equal abuse for leaving them loose together and them getting into a fight. lol. 

no, i wouldnt lock young children in a cage alday while i am out (as used as a comparison in a previous post), but i also wouldnt leave them running loose in a house while im out where they could harm themselves on all manner of objects while im not around to supervise- so _nerrrrr_ :whistling2: even the safest piece of furniture can turn into something dangerous in the wrong hands unsupervised, be it kids OR dogs. 

obviously, we dont leave them in there forever- we dont go out for very long and if we are out longer than usual then our neighbours check in on them. but they do get shut in overnight and are quite happy to go in and sleep- they get up and take themselves to bed as soon as the tv gets turned off or we start putting stuff away at night, if they didnt like it in there im sure they would play up- theyre little buggers when they dont want to do something! and they soon let us know when they are awake and ready for breakfast!


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

taraliz said:


> I agree, if it works for you and not mis used then there is no problem, but as always someone will take it too far which tends to give the whole things a somewhat negative view.
> 
> Still think you should have a little tykes house tho (with window boxes !) .:lol2:


Would have probably been a lot cheaper too!!!!!:lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

taraliz said:


> £50 - half price in toys r us ! so much cheaper than a crate ! lol
> Used mine as an outiside tortoise house. lol


o0ops I missed this one before shouting CHEAPER OPTIONS! Damn I could have saved a fortune!!! :bash:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fraggle said:


> haha!!! our pup loves his crate- he spends most the time in there- everytime you walk out of the room he jumps in and wags his tail at you, and he takes himself in there when he wants a nap. he also uses it as 'den' when he plays tag with the other dog, haha!
> 
> we do use them while we are out, because i dont like to leave them unsupervised loose together as if either of them ever turned on one another i would never forgive myself. they do playfight all the time and our pup is just getting to the stage where he is testing how far he can push our older dog for dominance, so there is always that small chance it _could_ turn nasty- there always is with dogs. no doubt we will now get slated by the people who wont crate their dogs, but on the other hand i would get equal abuse for leaving them loose together and them getting into a fight. lol.
> 
> ...


Very nicely put, and I totally agree!!! Some people dog/child proof their homes but even then there is still the risk of injury from the most unexpected of sources no matter how well you kit your home out to prevent accidents


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> Very nicely put, and I totally agree!!! Some people dog/child proof their homes but even then there is still the risk of injury from the most unexpected of sources no matter how well you kit your home out to prevent accidents


when you have a puppy i don't think there is any such thing as dogproofing lol! _anything_ they can chew or knock over is a threat- so unless i can completely rid my downstairs of furniture and belongings, i see the crate as a safer environment when i am out. ours have already figured out how to open doors, drawers, reach the very back of worksurfaces- and too many things they would usually ignore become interesting when you go out and leave them to it cos they are bored!! also, as i said, i dont like to let the 2 playfight unsupervised just in case, which they would if i left them loose. 

getting pups to love being in their crate is much easier than people make out too, the earlier you use one, the easier it is and the safer they feel in there. our pup is totally lost if you move his crate.


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> o0ops I missed this one before shouting CHEAPER OPTIONS! Damn I could have saved a fortune!!! :bash:


 
and .. and.. you could get one of those kids fold out mini sofas (yep got on of them too) and have a little house ! ahhhh. lol


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## taraliz (Aug 10, 2008)

Ok lets cut to the chase here ... put the kids in the cages and play with the dogs !

yeah :lol2::devil:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

taraliz said:


> Ok lets cut to the chase here ... put the kids in the cages and play with the dogs !
> 
> yeah :lol2::devil:


haha!!! good choice!!!


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fraggle said:


> when you have a puppy i don't think there is any such thing as dogproofing lol! _anything_ they can chew or knock over is a threat- so unless i can completely rid my downstairs of furniture and belongings, i see the crate as a safer environment when i am out. ours have already figured out how to open doors, drawers, reach the very back of worksurfaces- and too many things they would usually ignore become interesting when you go out and leave them to it cos they are bored!! also, as i said, i dont like to let the 2 playfight unsupervised just in case, which they would if i left them loose.
> 
> getting pups to love being in their crate is much easier than people make out too, the earlier you use one, the easier it is and the safer they feel in there. our pup is totally lost if you move his crate.


I can see where some people are against them using 'locking your child in a crate while you are out' as an example of how strongly they feel against crates, as I too was against them, have never even dreamt of using them for ANY of my dogs, until this little terror didn't respond to any other form of 'distraction'. I use that word because I did try to clear everything out of her way so that she wasn't tempted and would get bored with trying, but it didn't work and I started a thread for some advice, which resulted in the purchase of a crate because of some of the positive feedback I was getting from people's experiences with them. It is nice when after being slandered for doing what some people think is wrong, to hear positive feedback from people who believe it isn't :2thumb:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

taraliz said:


> Ok lets cut to the chase here ... put the kids in the cages and play with the dogs !
> 
> yeah :lol2::devil:


LOL don't give me ideas, I can be lethal if I get an idea into my head :whistling2:


*PS before anyone calls NSPCC I was kidding!* :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> I can see where some people are against them using 'locking your child in a crate while you are out' as an example of how strongly they feel against crates, as I too was against them, have never even dreamt of using them for ANY of my dogs, until this little terror didn't respond to any other form of 'distraction'. I use that word because I did try to clear everything out of her way so that she wasn't tempted and would get bored with trying, but it didn't work and I started a thread for some advice, which resulted in the purchase of a crate because of some of the positive feedback I was getting from people's experiences with them. It is nice when after being slandered for doing what some people think is wrong, to hear positive feedback from people who believe it isn't :2thumb:


the 1st time you use a crate is always a bit scary- for starters, you know the difference when you stop calling it a cage!!! lol! dogs do need a place in your home which is all theirs- part of their instinct is to have a 'den' where they feel safe and can go when they feel threatened. crate training is not cruel if done properly- it is a place to feel safe and means thy have an order to their day- ours know when they will go in, when we will be home, if we leave them out they go crackers cos they dont know what is going on, and to dogs the unknown is scary.
for those who say they are still wild enough to need to roam around and have full run of your house and go/do/trash whatever they want- they dont! 
they may be descended from wolves but they have evolved into domesticated animals- they are part of a family and need to be brought up as you would children- to respect their family and their home, and to not run riot! we are descended from monkeys, but it doesnt mean we should let our kids swing from light fittings and fling poo around the house, does it?:lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fraggle said:


> the 1st time you use a crate is always a bit scary- for starters, you know the difference when you stop calling it a cage!!! lol! dogs do need a place in your home which is all theirs- part of their instinct is to have a 'den' where they feel safe and can go when they feel threatened. crate training is not cruel if done properly- it is a place to feel safe and means thy have an order to their day- ours know when they will go in, when we will be home, if we leave them out they go crackers cos they dont know what is going on, and to dogs the unknown is scary.
> for those who say they are still wild enough to need to roam around and have full run of your house and go/do/trash whatever they want- they dont!
> they may be descended from wolves but they have evolved into domesticated animals- they are part of a family and need to be brought up as you would children- to respect their family and their home, and to not run riot! we are descended from monkeys, but it doesnt mean we should let our kids swing from light fittings and fling poo around the house, does it?:lol2:


:lol2: might make life a lot simpler if we did !! No cares in the world *sigh* :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Oooh ya could get little gingham curtains on the play house too that would really complete the look:lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> Oooh ya could get little gingham curtains on the play house too that would really complete the look:lol2:


 
And maybe a chandelier for her to swing from if she gets bored? :lol2:


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

just skimmed the thread.

but cages, crates, playpens whatever u use, imo r good.

my new little boy sleeps in his playpen at night n loves it with all his warm clean beddin n teddies (well a blue elephant lol) the 1st night had a bit of a bark but now when its time for bed he waits by it waggin his tail.

at the end of the day u can be for or against crates but they are safe, ur dog is safe while u r away n imo thats all that matters, as long as ur dog has nice beddin n a water dish they are fine.

i personally am for crates/cages but if people arnt then thats there desicion, everyone is differnt.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> just skimmed the thread.
> 
> but cages, crates, playpens whatever u use, imo r good.
> 
> ...


:2thumb: :2thumb: :notworthy: :notworthy: :2thumb: :2thumb:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Everyone has different opinions so you are bound to get a lot of people giving their views but as long as it works for you at the end of the day thats all that matters:2thumb:


 I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that the mere presence of a cage in the house, makes the dog behave and stops her jumping up. 
Cage in living room, door not locked and dog left=dog behaves.
Cage removed from living room, dog left = dog trashes the place.
Have you tried collapsing the cage and leaving it laying in the middle of the floor when you go out to see if it can still hypnotise her into behaving? Have you tried a bird cage to see if that works too. Have you a theory as to why it works?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fraggle said:


> the 1st time you use a crate is always a bit scary- for starters, you know the difference when you stop calling it a cage!!! lol! dogs do need a place in your home which is all theirs- part of their instinct is to have a 'den' where they feel safe and can go when they feel threatened. crate training is not cruel if done properly- it is a place to feel safe and means thy have an order to their day- ours know when they will go in, when we will be home, if we leave them out they go crackers cos they dont know what is going on, and to dogs the unknown is scary.
> for those who say they are still wild enough to need to roam around and have full run of your house and go/do/trash whatever they want- they dont!
> they may be descended from wolves but they have evolved into domesticated animals- they are part of a family and need to be brought up as you would children- to respect their family and their home, and to not run riot! we are descended from monkeys, but it doesnt mean we should let our kids swing from light fittings and fling poo around the house, does it?:lol2:


 So your answer to unruly dogs is to lock them in a cage? Has training gone out of fashion?
I am one of those opposed to cages and who was infuriated by the OP saying she left the dog for 8 hours locked in the cage.
I have cages here in the dog room. Nice ones up on castors. They have doors too. But the doors have no locks as they all fell off. Not that it matters as I never locked them anyway. The reason I have cages as opposed to normal dog beds is because:

a/ they are up on legs and castors so when it's wet and horrible out and the dog room floor is damp, the little dogs have dry beds.

b/ because I have a bit or worktop on top of the 3 cages up on which Chalky and Urian sleep.

When the weather is dry, the dogs are allowed into the main house and can be trusted not to chase cats, knock things over, trash the place, jump up on surfaces. All 18 of them. It's because I taught them their manners just like I would teach a child. So if you wouldn't let your kids


> swing from light fittings and fling poo around the house,


 would you shut them in cages to prevent it? You do it with dogs after all.


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> So your answer to unruly dogs is to lock them in a cage? Has training gone out of fashion?
> I am one of those opposed to cages and who was infuriated by the OP saying she left the dog for 8 hours locked in the cage.
> I have cages here in the dog room. Nice ones up on castors. They have doors too. But the doors have no locks as they all fell off. Not that it matters as I never locked them anyway. The reason I have cages as opposed to normal dog beds is because:
> 
> ...


a) i havent once said i put my dogs in a crate because they are 'unruly'- i have said i put them in there to keep them safe when i am not around to supervise them- unfortunately i have to work to pay for their food and vet bills, therefore the occasional shift is called for. or would you prefer i sit on the dole and spend your taxes on them?

b) _*i*_ havent once said i leave them 'locked away' for 8 hours. i _have_ said that they are in there for short amounts of time and if necessary i have people pop in to let them out and play with them for a while. 

c) my dogs ARE trained. but unfortunately not to the point where they will do the housework instead of trying to see what is in the cupboards while im out. if they did find something and eat it (as dogs do) i would never forgive myself if they came to any harm. it's nothing to do with them knocking things over or trashing the place, if i was worried about things breaking, i wouldnt have dogs.

d) my dogs don't need castors, because i don't make them sleep in a 'horrible damp room' like you do, they are part of my family so they live in my house, in a nice DRY WARM bed. they live in the house all the time, not just when it is dry.

e) my dogs , as already stated, are kept safely in their crates (where they feel safe and sleep by choice, at any part of the day) so that they do not come to any harm while i am not there to supervise playfighting or chewing of household objects, without the need to put them in a damp room (call it a 'dog room' if you will). 

f) i don't like cats. if one was in my house my dogs can chase it all they damn well like (sorry catlovers, they just freak me out :lol2

you may be 'infuriated' by how people keep their dogs. but to be honest i really don't like the sound of this 'damp room' you keep yours in. but i realise you are a respected dog owner on here and quite frankly your methods are your own business. 

sorry to hear about the puppy by the way. i hope the others are all doing okay.

thankyou.

ps
to all the cat folk on here, f) was a joke :whistling2:


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## kaybee (Feb 10, 2009)

I had such a hard time crate training my Pug. I think it's because they are so clingy. I swear, he would whine and bark and go mental... but he's calmed to it now. 

My labrador on the other hand isn't crate trained. We never needed to. He was always so docile in the house and is even more so now that he's 15 human years old!


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Crate training is very valuable when used correctly.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fraggle said:


> a) i havent once said i put my dogs in a crate because they are 'unruly'- i have said i put them in there to keep them safe when i am not around to supervise them- unfortunately i have to work to pay for their food and vet bills, therefore the occasional shift is called for. or would you prefer i sit on the dole and spend your taxes on them?
> 
> b) _*i*_ havent once said i leave them 'locked away' for 8 hours. i _have_ said that they are in there for short amounts of time and if necessary i have people pop in to let them out and play with them for a while.
> 
> ...


Nicely said yet again on behalf of all us Pro Crate peeps! I for one refuse to answer to 'conflicting' questions from other posters now that I know they seem to enjoy the animosity and tension that it causes and how threads that they post THEIR opinions to are constantly getting locked these days. What I will say is before questioning my methods, look at your own ethics for dog keeping and safety before criticising others and read posts PROPERLY before stating your opinion, as has not been the case here :lol2: Where as I work extremely hard to give my family (and when I say family I mean the animals that I share my home with and my children) some sort of decent life, and like Fraggle said don't have the luxury of staying at home all day, and rather than barely living at all on others peeps tax money, I have to go out and work full time. I said that my dogs are home all day yes, but it seems to have been overlooked that they are walked halfway through the day. Oh and excuse me for not mentioning that a neighbour goes in twice a day to give them some garden time. I forgot that it was my obligation to answer to certain people who regard themselves on a pedestal here because they are so much better than everyone else. Oh and did I not mention that I do not lock the cage door?? (Even if I did lock the door what business is it of anyone elses anyway?) Whether peeps like to think that this method does not or will not work because it is not THEIR chosen method of keeping the dog safe or out of mischief, does not mean it is the wrong one. There is no right or wrong way of training as long as it is working for you, for the pup and that everyone is happy. I am not and do not begrudge people of their opinion (as I have seen others do) but I would rather people take a closer look before 'criticising' as to me this is not an opinion, it is nothing more than snobbery.

Fraggle - In connection with the safety issue. A friend of mine had a pup which somehow got hold of some ibuprofen (that my friend had in her bag)and ate the whole packet. She took the pup to the vet and the vet gave him the once over and said he was ok. 2 years later and after what my friend thought was 'naughtiness' (peeing anywhere and everywhere in the house all the time) she found out the dog had been suffering with a liver (or kidney) failure due to this little mishap and recently had to be PTS. A classic example of an 'accident' which could have been avoided if the pup was crate trained. She is an extremely good dog owner (used to be a reputable breeder of Rhodesian Ridgebacks) and has her wits about her, but this little 'accident' is a classic example of what could happen given the opportunity of a mischievous pup. I am not a dog 'nut' but I am a dog lover. Some of the things I have heard said in this forum have made me laugh as to how people treat their dogs and then have the balls to criticise when it really isn't necessary. I will say this, I have been to top breeders of Golden Retreivers for a pup in the past and as soon as they start on in a nutty manner about the pups/dogs and hold them paramount above everything else, make my excuses and get the hell out of there lol Not because I don't think I will fit the bill, but because I am not interested in all the gentics to be honest, I am looking for a family member regardless of how many bloody shows the mother father twin sister aunties have won and if the pup has medical issues in the future due to bad breeding - so what??? Would a mother who's child was born with problems not want that child because of the difficulty it would cause and potential money it would cost??? (seeing as some peeps like to compare dogs with children, that one was just for you lol). Anyways this is now going off the original topic, but it just seems that as long as you keep your opinions to yourself around certain people, or if you do as they would, then you're fine, otherwise you are committing the most heinous of all crimes - when actually all you're doing is loving your pet family member and trying to do the best for them.

The bottom line is my pup likes her crate, my pup is happy (you can tell when a pup/dog is unhappy) - I came on here for advise on something that I had tried several failed methods to prevent. This does not mean that I am incapable of sharing a happy environment with my pup and it does not mean that I am any less of a person or dog owner than those of you who think you are The Almighty.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that the mere presence of a cage in the house, makes the dog behave and stops her jumping up.
> Cage in living room, door not locked and dog left=dog behaves.
> Cage removed from living room, dog left = dog trashes the place.
> Have you tried collapsing the cage and leaving it laying in the middle of the floor when you go out to see if it can still hypnotise her into behaving? Have you tried a bird cage to see if that works too. Have you a theory as to why it works?


She obviously feels more secure with it there rather than it not there. Just because *YOU* can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience, the presence, the knowledge that you have with dogs that have such good manners. I must find my local dog etiquette training class. Do they teach them which fork is for the starter, which is for the salad and which to use for the main meal?? And how to say 'Please' & 'Thank You' after every exchange of 'bribery'?? :whistling2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> She obviously feels more secure with it there rather than it not there. Just because *YOU* can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience, the presence, the knowledge that you have with dogs that have such good manners. I must find my local dog etiquette training class. Do they teach them which fork is for the starter, which is for the salad and which to use for the main meal?? :whistling2:


:lol2: that gave me a good giggle before bed!


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

:Na_Na_Na_Na: Why Thank You and Sweet 'Doggie' Dreams LOL


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I'd like to make a few points really. I like crates, _when used corrrectly_.

As to why the dog behaves when the crate is simply in the room, maybe it just feels it hasa secure place to go and sleep, so in general feels safe and secure. I do know of people who have had dogs with seperation anxiety who have suddenly been OK once crated while the owner is out, and that being the only things that has changed. 

I will say, I will _never _agree with leaving a dog shut in a crate for much longer than 3-4 hours, unless it is overnight, when the owner is likely to be at home, and the dog is likely to be asleep. However, is the OP even shutting the dog in the crate, to just having the crate there? 

I would also like to say, that if a dog is not behaving in a calm and quiet manner when you are out, and you are coming back to carnage, it is almost certain there is a problem, and although locking the dog in a crate might stop the damag, it might not stop the problem.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

midori said:


> I'd like to make a few points really. I like crates, _when used corrrectly_.
> 
> As to why the dog behaves when the crate is simply in the room, maybe it just feels it hasa secure place to go and sleep, so in general feels safe and secure. I do know of people who have had dogs with seperation anxiety who have suddenly been OK once crated while the owner is out, and that being the only things that has changed.
> 
> ...


Excellent post :notworthy:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

midori said:


> I'd like to make a few points really. I like crates, _when used corrrectly_.
> 
> As to why the dog behaves when the crate is simply in the room, maybe it just feels it hasa secure place to go and sleep, so in general feels safe and secure. I do know of people who have had dogs with seperation anxiety who have suddenly been OK once crated while the owner is out, and that being the only things that has changed.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100% midori and since I have crate trained the pup she has calmed down, which was my point. So why is it so difficult for some people to believe this?? (Not aiming that question at you or anyone in particular).

I would also like to add that even when I was working from home, the exercise regime that I currrently hold with my dogs was the same then as it is now and when we were not out walking they were asleep (or pup being mischeivous) til my children came home from school. So what is different from me working from home and having a schedule for them and working away from home and having the same schedule for them. There is no difference. The pup was mischeivous whether I was home or not with respect to the main reason I asked for *advice* (NOT snobbery) in the first place and no matter what some people say and whether they believe it or not - the crate was the reason the pup has settled down. That is all that I need to know to feel that she is safe and comfortable. If she was not comfortable, she would not remain in there during the day and I would come home to chaos, or even worse a very poorly pup!! The claims that I misuse the crate from somebody who neither knows me, nor sees how I use it is heresay and irrelevant, and quite frankly all I see posted with respect to snobby remarks is bs and more bs and any reason to try and persuade others that she is better than the rest with her snide comments and demands to know. What are you gonna do with the info other than attempt to belittle the person it is directed to. How very very sad :lol2:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Breezy_One said:


> I agree with you 100% midori and since I have crate trained the pup she has calmed down, which was my point. So why is it so difficult for some people to believe this?? (Not aiming that question at you or anyone in particular).
> 
> I would also like to add that even when I was working from home, the exercise regime that I currrently hold with my dogs was the same then as it is now and when we were not out walking they were asleep (or pup being mischeivous) til my children came home from school. *So what is different from me working from home and having a schedule for them and working away from home and having the same schedule for them.* There is no difference. The pup was mischeivous whether I was home or not with respect to the main reason I asked for *advice* (NOT snobbery) in the first place and no matter what some people say and whether they believe it or not - the crate was the reason the pup has settled down. That is all that I need to know to feel that she is safe and comfortable. If she was not comfortable, she would not remain in there during the day and I would come home to chaos, or even worse a very poorly pup!! The claims that I misuse the crate from somebody who neither knows me, nor sees how I use it is heresay and irrelevant, and quite frankly all I see posted with respect to snobby remarks is bs and more bs and any reason to try and persuade others that she is better than the rest with her snide comments and demands to know. What are you gonna do with the info other than attempt to belittle the person it is directed to. How very very sad :lol2:


The difference is, the dogs haven't got company when you are out. Whilst I don't disagree with crates myself, I do feel I should comment to say I do not agree with leaving a pup alone all day, nor even an adult Golden Retriever, asthey thrivve on human company, and whilst they are an amiable and adaptrable breed, I will never believe one can be truly happy left without human company for long periods of time. 

I also feel the need to say that you haven't really 'crate trained' the pup at all, you have put a crate up and the pup likes to sleep in it. Yes, it seems ot have worke dinyour case, and that is great, bot for you and the pup, but I simply can't help feeling that if a pup must be left while the owner goes to work, hn a dog walker/sitter is the best solution. 

I am not old, but I think it sisod how in todays society, when we should know more about dogs, they seem to have more and more behavioural problems. I do feel that is in part as there isn't one parent at home all day so much now like there used to be. I also think it is t do with todays society where we feel we have the right to something _now _puely because we want it, and with no regard to whether we can either afford it, or in the case of an animal provide properly for it. 

However, things seem to have worked out for you and the dog now and that is great. I suppose every individual stuation is different.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

fraggle said:


> d) my dogs don't need castors, because i don't make them sleep in a 'horrible damp room' like you do, they are part of my family so they live in my house, in a nice DRY WARM bed. they live in the house all the time, not just when it is dry.


Wow....that was kind of...silly?
We used to have a springer who would go out in the freezing cold, jump in the pond and swim for ages, run back through the forest, stop at the gate, roll under the gate then go skidding across the field more then likely into the muddy puddle in the car park and walk home, go into the hall and flood the place. Rolling around, running about, jumping up walls and making a mess. He stayed there for about half an hour then we would rinse him down in the shower and blow dry him off. How terrible of us, unfortuneatly he didnt wipe his feet at the door and therefore was still muddy and wasnt allowed into the lovely warm living room. What do you seriously expect? fenwoman hardly has "just a few" dogs to keep clean, and I definitely wouldn't want that many dogs running through my house. Animals can me part of the family without them having to be with you 24/7.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

midori said:


> The difference is, the dogs haven't got company when you are out. Whilst I don't disagree with crates myself, I do feel I should comment to say I do not agree with leaving a pup alone all day, nor even an adult Golden Retriever, asthey thrivve on human company, and whilst they are an amiable and adaptrable breed, I will never believe one can be truly happy left without human company for long periods of time.
> 
> I also feel the need to say that you haven't really 'crate trained' the pup at all, you have put a crate up and the pup likes to sleep in it. Yes, it seems ot have worke dinyour case, and that is great, bot for you and the pup, *but I simply can't help feeling that if a pup must be left while the owner goes to work, hn a dog walker/sitter is the best solution*.
> 
> ...


 
midori - they are not left all day on there own. I have someone walk them during the day and come in to spend a little time with them mid morning and afternoon and to let them have some garden time. I know that he must be here for a while because he raids the contents of my fridge and leaves the rubbish lying around lol

Fortunately that is the case with me (I say fortunately because my kids dad was a :censor: :censor and so being a single parent it is impossible to have me both at home _for_ the family and at work to _keep_ the family lol (although that would be nice) 

Also, about the 'crate training'. As I am very new to this concept and for the fact that what I have done so far has seemed to work for us, I was unaware that there was a specific training method. I was advised prior to getting the crate that I may have difficulty getting the pup to go in there willingly and now that I have been able to do this (using the advised methods) to me that is enough for me to think that she is 'crate trained' :lol2: Maybe you can explain what 'real' crate training is, so that I don't make that mistake again :bash: :lol2:

Thank You


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> She obviously feels more secure with it there rather than it not there. Just because *YOU* can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience, the presence, the knowledge that you have with dogs that have such good manners. I must find my local dog etiquette training class. Do they teach them which fork is for the starter, which is for the salad and which to use for the main meal?? And how to say 'Please' & 'Thank You' after every exchange of 'bribery'?? :whistling2:


hun some people arnt worth the time of day on here, as all they want to do is argue, cause conflict, and trouble, ur best treating them like a naughty dog n ignoring them as this is probably the only thing they understand.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> ur best treating them like a naughty dog n ignoring them as this is probably the only thing they understand.


Giggles....


:lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> hun some people arnt worth the time of day on here, as all they want to do is argue, cause conflict, and trouble, ur best treating them like a naughty dog n ignoring them as this is probably the only thing they understand.


 
 You are probably right!!! :2thumb::lol2: Great advice thank you


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Crates come in handy for more than naughty puppies. We used a crate with Badger, he had horrendous seperation anxiety to the point of destroying various pieces of furniture and making himself sick.

Two weeks of introducing him to the crate and then using it if we had to go out (very rare as I am home all day and only for short times - half an hour or so) - he stopped.

Never had to use the crate again. It came in handy for another foster dog and went to his new home with him, I recently bought another for another foster, and it helped her a lot as she was used to being kenneled outside.

So they're not just for lazy owners who cant train their pups (whoever thought that on the first page - I've not read all the replies so forgive me if someone else has already explained their proper use!).:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Crates come in handy for more than naughty puppies. We used a crate with Badger, he had horrendous seperation anxiety to the point of destroying various pieces of furniture and making himself sick.
> 
> Two weeks of introducing him to the crate and then using it if we had to go out (very rare as I am home all day and only for short times - half an hour or so) - he stopped.
> 
> ...


 
I completely agree with you im not a lazy owner all my dogs are in the house and toilet trained bar the pup who is doing very well............not a single poop inside but the odd tiddle accident 

my crates are used soley for safety of the dogs when im out and to give me bed space at night :lol2:

Its very rare i go out for any longer than a couple of hours an if i need to then someone comes in an lets them all out for me so they aint in the crates too long 

my dogs are extremely well behaved when im in but should i leave them to it if i had to go out i would have no house left to return to :lol2:


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Giggles....
> 
> 
> :lol2:


althought my dogs have picked it up alot quicker!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Mrs dirtydozen said:


> althought my dogs have picked it up alot quicker!!


:rotfl:
I often end up using the ignore technique for people as I am too stuck in the dog world :blush: I have also told people to "LEAVE IT!" when they went to pick something up in a shop or "AAAAT!!!!!!!!!!" :blush:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> :rotfl:
> I often end up using the ignore technique for people as I am too stuck in the dog world :blush: I have also told people to "LEAVE IT!" when they went to pick something up in a shop or "AAAAT!!!!!!!!!!" :blush:


LOL that made me chuckle 

its a great technique :2thumb: 

my dogs hate it when i ignore them :lol2:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

I have to agree with Fenwoman and Midori.

I feel there are allot of people about with the "I want so I will get" frame of mind. Not what can I actually give to an animal, do I have enough time to spend with an animal. 
Crates were not invented for people to buy dogs and pups and shut them in them when there at work full time. Like I said would anyone shut a child in a crate during the day when there at work? hopefully not.
And as already stated if your dog has issues being left out of the crate then there is something wrong and it needs to be worked on, not use a crate to solve the problem, because its not solving the problem, its just making life easier for you, not the dog.
It can be used to help with training, but I dont feel they should be a long term solution to anything.

I have five dogs, all rescue, all have free range of the house with no problems. Thats because I made the time for them and worked on them being left.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Ever had one with severe seperation anxiety who shredded your house in a matter of minutes, eating whatever he could rip apart, making himself vomit....and had to go to the shop? :whistling2:


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## Mrs dirtydozen (Sep 5, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> :rotfl:
> I often end up using the ignore technique for people as I am too stuck in the dog world :blush: I have also told people to "LEAVE IT!" when they went to pick something up in a shop or "AAAAT!!!!!!!!!!" :blush:


oh my word, thats so funny so do i, glad im not the only one, i keep using dog comands with jessica short sharp simple words but it has worked a treat n she know everyone n she is so well behaved lol


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

OK this thread can run on now as I have said all I am going to say on the subject and I can clearly see that peeps read what they want to read and skip the parts that they are choosing to comment on in a negative way, which is fine, but if you are only going to take notice when you see something you do not agree with and then comment on it *without* taking into account *ALL* I have said, then I really have nothing further to say :lol2:

*QUICK SOMEONE CALL THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITIES AND HAVE ME TAKEN AWAY IN CUFFS FOR NOT ABIDING BY SOMEONE ELSES UNFORGIVING, UNCO-OPERATIVE AND UNCONVENTIONAL STANDARDS!!!* :lol2:

Or better still why don't I just take my pup to the pound?? Yeah that would be better *RESULT!!!* She would be so much better off on a waiting list for deathrow!!! Ignorance is bliss, is all I can say!!!


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> OK this thread can run on now as I have said all I am going to say on the subject and I can clearly see that peeps read what they want to read and skip the parts that they are choosing to comment on in a negative way, which is fine, but if you are only going to take notice when you see something you do not agree with and then comment on it *without* taking into account *ALL* I have said, then I really have nothing further to say :lol2:


good point. no matter how many time you stress all the valid reasons for using the crate (all in interest of the dog, NOT you) they just pick out their own reasons (which usually do not even exist in your post) as to why they are so much better than you.



Emmaj said:


> my crates are used soley for safety of the dogs when im out and to give me bed space at night :lol2:
> 
> Its very rare i go out for any longer than a couple of hours an if i need to then someone comes in an lets them all out for me so they aint in the crates too long


same here, but unfortunately no matter how many times i stress this point its different, cos im not in the 'were better than you cos we have more dogs' crew.



marthaMoo said:


> I feel there are allot of people about with the "I want so I will get" frame of mind. Not what can I actually give to an animal, do I have enough time to spend with an animal.
> Crates were not invented for people to buy dogs and pups and shut them in them when there at work full time.


I give my animals everything i can, we quite happily live on beans on toast quite often so we can spend more cash on our pets, and i work evenings while my husband works days so our dogs are alone as little as possible. i hate my hours, i hate my job, and i hate that my sleep pattern is well and truly f:censor:d. but my dogs get lots of attention, as little time alone as possible, and we still both get fulltime hours in to make sure they get all the care they will ever need. So no, we dont have crates so we can leave them locked up all day. We live our lives hardly seeing one another but the dogs get more affection and time than most. If it was a case of 'I want, I get, i would have 18 dogs, all living in a damp room cos i dont have room on my precious carpets for their wet feet, just because i want them. 



LoveForLizards said:


> Wow....that was kind of...silly?
> We used to have a springer who would go out in the freezing cold, jump in the pond and swim for ages, run back through the forest, stop at the gate, roll under the gate then go skidding across the field more then likely into the muddy puddle in the car park and walk home, go into the hall and flood the place. Rolling around, running about, jumping up walls and making a mess. He stayed there for about half an hour then we would rinse him down in the shower and blow dry him off. How terrible of us, unfortuneatly he didnt wipe his feet at the door and therefore was still muddy and wasnt allowed into the lovely warm living room. What do you seriously expect? fenwoman hardly has "just a few" dogs to keep clean, and I definitely wouldn't want that many dogs running through my house. Animals can me part of the family without them having to be with you 24/7.


Yes, our dogs do get taken out on walks to play in the water, and get caked in mud, and play in the garden getting wet and filthy alday. The difference is, i then have them in my home in the warm, where if they need drying or cleaning, i will DRY OR CLEAN THEM, not stick them in a 'dog room' where it is cold or wet. I wouldnt expect to be dumped in a damp room to dry off if i came in from the rain, so i dont expect it for my dogs. And if you have too many to let in anfter a nice play in the rain, then maybe you have too many to cope with. Oh, im sorry, im not allowed to disagree with anything she does am i, as she is the be all and end all of anything dogrelated and we should all bow before her.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> OK this thread can run on now as I have said all I am going to say on the subject and I can clearly see that peeps read what they want to read and skip the parts that they are choosing to comment on in a negative way, which is fine, but if you are only going to take notice when you see something you do not agree with and then comment on it *without* taking into account *ALL* I have said, then I really have nothing further to say :lol2:
> 
> *QUICK SOMEONE CALL THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITIES AND HAVE ME TAKEN AWAY IN CUFFS FOR NOT ABIDING BY SOMEONE ELSES UNFORGIVING, UNCO-OPERATIVE AND UNCONVENTIONAL STANDARDS!!!* :lol2:
> 
> Or better still why don't I just take my pup to the pound?? Yeah that would be better *RESULT!!!* She would be so much better off on a waiting list for deathrow!!! Ignorance is bliss, is all I can say!!!



I don't think you need to justify using a crate to anyone, your woofer is happy and healthy and that's all that matters : victory:


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

fraggle said:


> good point. no matter how many time you stress all the valid reasons for using the crate (all in interest of the dog, NOT you) they just pick out their own reasons (which usually do not even exist in your post) as to why they are so much better than you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if this is a dig at Fenwomen (she has lots of dogs and a dog room), but I feel it's unfair if it is. I'm not sure what's wrong with having a dog room and it being a bit damp and muddy; that's what comes off the dogs :lol2: I don't think it's a room swimming in muck with water sloshing about!

Jo


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

mrfluff said:


> I'm not sure if this is a dig at Fenwomen (she has lots of dogs and a dog room), but I feel it's unfair if it is. I'm not sure what's wrong with having a dog room and it being a bit damp and muddy; that's what comes off the dogs :lol2: I don't think it's a room swimming in muck with water sloshing about!
> 
> Jo


just as i have a couple of crates to stop my dogs playfighting and getting too rough, or harming themselves on something if they get a bit nosey while im out... ALL FOR THE SAFETY OF MY DOGS. but its fine for her to have a pop at me cos she doesnt use them. i couldnt give a damn if she keeps them in a pond, its really not my business (although i doubt she would get them quite thatttt damp lol) but if shes fine to have a go at the way i look after my dogs, then what is the problem with saying that i disagree with the way she keeps hers? i think dog jumpers are cruel, but u dont see me jumping on her knitting thread and having a rant about it...just because i dont have a rfuk doggy fanclub doesnt mean im less equipped to look after my dogs, and i dont see how its fine for her to slag off other peoples methods, but there is uproar if anyone defends themselves or questions hers.
i don't mind if she disagrees with how i keep my dogs. what i do mind is that noone dares question whether she has the right to have a go, noone is allowed to disagree with her unless they want the rfuk doggy crew on their backs, and noone is allowed to question how she keeps her dogs. everyone has different ways of looking after their animals, in different circumstances. neither i nor fenwoman are treating our dogs cruelly, or risking their health or happiness, we just have different ways of keeping them. i would just love to know who decides who is right and who is wrong, it isnt always black and white.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

fraggle said:


> Oh, im sorry, im not allowed to disagree with anything she does am i, as she is the be all and end all of anything dogrelated and we should all bow before her.


Fenwoman will tell you herself how much we disagree with eachother so dont start that:lol2: .


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fraggle said:


> good point. no matter how many time you stress all the valid reasons for using the crate (all in interest of the dog, NOT you) they just pick out their own reasons (which usually do not even exist in your post) as to why they are so much better than you.
> 
> 
> 
> same here, but unfortunately no matter how many times i stress this point its different, cos im not in the 'were better than you cos we have more dogs' crew.[/color]


Not to mention the fact that they don't know how or why I gave the pup a home in the first place and there are lots of other info that I have not disclosed which quite frankly, I feel that I have given more than I originally planned to in the first place. The bottom line is none of what I do or do not do is nobody elses business - so why we have people coming on here preaching what *THEY* believe is the *RIGHT* and *ONLY* way can go spin on it :lol2:





fraggle said:


> I give my animals everything i can, we quite happily live on beans on toast quite often so we can spend more cash on our pets, and i work evenings while my husband works days so our dogs are alone as little as possible. i hate my hours, i hate my job, and i hate that my sleep pattern is well and truly f:censor:d. but my dogs get lots of attention, as little time alone as possible, and we still both get fulltime hours in to make sure they get all the care they will ever need. So no, we dont have crates so we can leave them locked up all day. We live our lives hardly seeing one another but the dogs get more affection and time than most. If it was a case of 'I want, I get, i would have 18 dogs, all living in a damp room cos i dont have room on my precious carpets for their wet feet, just because i want them.


uummmm fraggle hun, I think that was an attack at me not you but ^5 for your support xx - 

Whoever it was directed to, I am *NOT* the only full time working pet/dog owner parent etc etc. I will say it again, whatever I do, and however I choose to do it is nothing to do with anyone else. Especially not hormonal freaks that consider dogs to be equal to humans :lol2: How did I come to that conclusion?? HHmmmm many a reference made was in comparison to a child WTF?? lmao ... When a dog comes into your life you show them that they are *NOT* the pack leader and that *YOU* are, which equally shows you that they are *NOT* equal in any way shape or form so get over it :lol2:






fraggle said:


> Yes, our dogs do get taken out on walks to play in the water, and get caked in mud, and play in the garden getting wet and filthy alday. The difference is, i then have them in my home in the warm, where if they need drying or cleaning, i will DRY OR CLEAN THEM, not stick them in a 'dog room' where it is cold or wet. I wouldnt expect to be dumped in a damp room to dry off if i came in from the rain, so i dont expect it for my dogs. And if you have too many to let in anfter a nice play in the rain, then maybe you have too many to cope with. Oh, im sorry, im not allowed to disagree with anything she does am i, as she is the be all and end all of anything dogrelated and we should all bow before her.


:notworthy: *^5 *:no1:

ps how the bloody hell did my font change colour just like that ... must be magic lol


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Fenwoman will tell you herself how much we disagree with eachother so dont start that:lol2: .


i think she is an easy woman to disagree with, but also an easy woman to agree with in other posts, unfortunately i am just as stubborn as she is and having a bad week, so i feel war a'comin!!! 
which reminds me, i havent had an argument with sparkle yet... now _there_ is a challenge...


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

mrfluff said:


> I'm not sure if this is a dig at Fenwomen (she has lots of dogs and a dog room), but I feel it's unfair if it is. I'm not sure what's wrong with having a dog room and it being a bit damp and muddy; that's what comes off the dogs :lol2: I don't think it's a room swimming in muck with water sloshing about!
> 
> Jo


Sorry but when me keeping my pup in a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE warm kitchen is questioned when it is none of her beeswax and she probably keeps hers (multiple dogs) in (this is an assumption) a smallish cold damp room, why should it not be a dig?? I can see a clear case of 'do as I say, not as I do'!?? I have seen digs at everyone that doesn't do it *HER* way, and I have seen her say exactly as I have when she is questioned 'none of your bus'. So why should it be only her allowed to make digs at others (or express their strong opinion?? It should be a case of 'what's good for the goose (I can think of better words but will refrain) is good for the gander' but that isn't the case with some High Almighty's who get their kicks out of belittling everyone else to make them look that little bit bigger and better than the rest.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> Especially not hormonal freaks


I once heard that women who have worked together for a long time become synchronised in the hormone department - I wonder if the same thing applies to forum users - could explain a lot :lol2:


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

fraggle said:


> just as i have a couple of crates to stop my dogs playfighting and getting too rough, or harming themselves on something if they get a bit nosey while im out... ALL FOR THE SAFETY OF MY DOGS. but its fine for her to have a pop at me cos she doesnt use them. i couldnt give a damn if she keeps them in a pond, its really not my business (although i doubt she would get them quite thatttt damp lol) but if shes fine to have a go at the way i look after my dogs, then what is the problem with saying that i disagree with the way she keeps hers? i think dog jumpers are cruel, but u dont see me jumping on her knitting thread and having a rant about it...just because i dont have a rfuk doggy fanclub doesnt mean im less equipped to look after my dogs, and i dont see how its fine for her to slag off other peoples methods, but there is uproar if anyone defends themselves or questions hers.
> i don't mind if she disagrees with how i keep my dogs. what i do mind is that noone dares question whether she has the right to have a go, noone is allowed to disagree with her unless they want the rfuk doggy crew on their backs, and noone is allowed to question how she keeps her dogs. everyone has different ways of looking after their animals, in different circumstances. neither i nor fenwoman are treating our dogs cruelly, or risking their health or happiness, we just have different ways of keeping them. i would just love to know who decides who is right and who is wrong, it isnt always black and white.





Breezy_One said:


> Sorry but when me keeping my pup in a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE warm kitchen is questioned when it is none of her beeswax and she probably keeps hers (multiple dogs) in (this is an assumption) a smallish cold damp room, why should it not be a dig?? I can see a clear case of 'do as I say, not as I do'!?? I have seen digs at everyone that doesn't do it *HER* way, and I have seen her say exactly as I have when she is questioned 'none of your bus'. So why should it be only her allowed to make digs at others (or express their strong opinion?? It should be a case of 'what's good for the goose (I can think of better words but will refrain) is good for the gander' but that isn't the case with some High Almighty's who get their kicks out of belittling everyone else to make them look that little bit bigger and better than the rest.


I do think Fenwoman's posts can be very near the knuckle, I just think by being picky over her way of doing things you are doing to her what you say she does to you! (If that makes any sense :lol2

Anyhoo.....I didn't want to turn this in to a Fennie thread so I'll bow out. I'd just everyone on here to try and get on, I won't expect group-hugs just yet though : victory:

Jo


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

butterfingersbimbo said:


> I don't think you need to justify using a crate to anyone, your woofer is happy and healthy and that's all that matters : victory:


 
:2thumb::2thumb: Thank You :no1:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Evie said:


> I once heard that women who have worked together for a long time become synchronised in the hormone department - I wonder if the same thing applies to forum users - could explain a lot :lol2:


 
LMAO :roll2::roll2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Bloody lot of you need crating, Your P***ing all over this thread! :lol2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Evie said:


> I once heard that women who have worked together for a long time become synchronised in the hormone department - I wonder if the same thing applies to forum users - could explain a lot :lol2:


 
Aye, I said that to Cat on MSN a few days ago.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Bloody lot of you need crating, Your P***ing all over this thread! :lol2:


*P*articularly *I*ntolerant of *M*enstruating *P*osters?? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Evie said:


> *P*articularly *I*ntolerant of *M*enstruating *P*osters?? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


 

Ok then. Bleeding all over it.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Ok then. Bleeding all over it.


Eeeeew!

Or in my case menopausal :whistling2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Evie said:


> Eeeeew!
> 
> Or in my case menopausal :whistling2:


 
Your safe then, apart from the sweating lol
Don't need to get the mop bucket out fer you :lol2:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I have used a crate from day one with my dog. The night I brought him home I had it set up with some of his bedding from the breeders and his favourite toy and a blanket over the top. When he came out of box I brought him home in he sniffed about the room then ran straight into the crate and has slept there ever since. When he was a puppy if something spooked him or there was a loud noise he would run in there too so he must of seen it as his safe place. Now if I am popping out he will go in there and sleep. I have upgraded it to a massive one now that has four 4x4feet panels though so its 16 square feet floor space.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> :2thumb::2thumb: Thank You :no1:


You're welcome! : victory:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

I would also like to add that if I was such a terrible and bad person/dog owner, why is it when I have replied to an ad asking for urgent help with a certain breed, have I been been told that the fact that I am a full-time worker is not an issue and having other dogs in the household would be company for one another during the day. They said that the breed are adaptable to change and when considering potential adoptees, full-time workers are not treated any differently when it comes to the rehoming process and are not considered bad owners or selfish for wanting to help a dog in need of a forever home. And this is coming from a national renowned rehoming organisation. hhmmmmm interesting huh?? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

mrfluff said:


> I do think Fenwoman's posts can be very near the knuckle, I just think by being picky over her way of doing things you are doing to her what you say she does to you! (If that makes any sense :lol2
> 
> Anyhoo.....I didn't want to turn this in to a Fennie thread so I'll bow out. I'd just everyone on here to try and get on, I won't expect group-hugs just yet though : victory:
> 
> Jo


haha! i dont mind a group hug, so long as she hasnt been sleeping in that dog room- she'll have a damp n soggy jumper... :whistling2::lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Breezy_One said:


> I would also like to add that if I was such a terrible and bad person/dog owner, why is it when I have replied to an ad asking for urgent help with a certain breed, have I been been told that the fact that I am a full-time worker is not an issue and having other dogs in the household would be company for one another during the day. They said that the breed are adaptable to change and when considering potential adoptees, full-time workers are not treated any differently when it comes to the rehoming process and are not considered bad owners or selfish for wanting to help a dog in need of a forever home. And this is coming from a national renowned rehoming organisation. hhmmmmm interesting huh?? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


 
It seems not all doggie know-it-alls have their heads stuck so far up their own arse they can't tell the wood from the trees :lol2:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Evie said:


> I once heard that women who have worked together for a long time become synchronised in the hormone department - I wonder if the same thing applies to forum users - could explain a lot :lol2:


if thats the case, i reckon rfuk should post out free chocolate fixes to all the girlies once a month to keep the threads a bit less scary!!!


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

Free choccie :mf_dribble:Fair trade for me please! :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

butterfingersbimbo said:


> Free choccie :mf_dribble:Fair trade for me please! :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


i'll take a flake, ta... hehe!


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

fraggle said:


> haha! i dont mind a group hug, so long as she hasnt been sleeping in that dog room- she'll have a damp n soggy jumper... :whistling2::lol2:


Ok then, group hug it is (I'll just go and wash the muddy paw prints off first :lol2 :grouphug:

Jo


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

fraggle said:


> if thats the case, i reckon rfuk should post out free chocolate fixes to all the girlies once a month to keep the threads a bit less scary!!!


Hey, can I have some choccy too??? Make mine a Flake! :mf_dribble:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Dam I hate you all! With your talk of all syncing Up.
Then 'Man from the attic' turns up.

ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I dam my free Chocolate now! :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Dam I hate you all! With your talk of all syncing Up.
> Then 'Man from the attic' turns up.
> 
> ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I dam my free Chocolate now! :lol2:


 Who's 'Man from the attic'? :lol2:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Breezy_One said:


> I would also like to add that if I was such a terrible and bad person/dog owner, why is it when I have replied to an ad asking for urgent help with a certain breed, have I been been told that the fact that I am a full-time worker is not an issue and having other dogs in the household would be company for one another during the day. They said that the breed are adaptable to change and when considering potential adoptees, full-time workers are not treated any differently when it comes to the rehoming process and are not considered bad owners or selfish for wanting to help a dog in need of a forever home. And this is coming from a national renowned rehoming organisation. hhmmmmm interesting huh?? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Well since I do work in rescue and have done for some years (moving pound dogs to larger well known rescues) I can only say they must have history on that dog and know for sure its dog friendly and will be ok with your own dogs and can be left for long periods of time. Otherwise they wouldnt take the risk. 
I dont happen to know of any rescue that would rehome a pup to a full time worker though. The most a rescue will let a puppy be left is 1/2 hours.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> Well since I do work in rescue and have done for some years (moving pound dogs to larger well known rescues) I can only say they must have history on that dog and know for sure its dog friendly and will be ok with your own dogs and can be left for long periods of time. Otherwise they wouldnt take the risk.
> I dont happen to know of any rescue that would rehome a pup to a full time worker though. The most a rescue will let a puppy be left is 1/2 hours.


:Na_Na_Na_Na: This is why I said peeps read what they want to read and thank you for proving that very point - where on that post you just replied to did I say puppy?????? :Na_Na_Na_Na: :lol2: :whistling2:

But as far as I am concerned, this thread is dead ... gone ... fini .... I know you are concerned and against everything I am about with regard to my puppy, but hey-ho that's life - I will get on with mine and you can get on with yours, that's the beauty of it!! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Breezy_One said:


> :Na_Na_Na_Na: This is why I said peeps read what they want to read and thank you for proving that very point - where on that post you just replied to did I say puppy?????? :Na_Na_Na_Na: :lol2: :whistling2:
> 
> But as far as I am concerned, this thread is dead ... gone ... fini .... I know you are concerned and against everything I am about with regard to my puppy, but hey-ho that's life - I will get on with mine and you can get on with yours, that's the beauty of it!! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


 
To be honest, you'd have done better to say something along the lines of 'I understand everyoe's concerns, but.... ' instead of being rude. All you have done is make it look like you'll just do what you want to do regardless of anything. 

I gre with marthaMoo. I do not know of any 'national renowned rehoming organisation' that would rehome any dog wth a full time worker except in special circumstances. Perhapsyou could name them, so they can be reccomended to others, as I have seen countless posts on forums here people struggle to get a rescue dog due to working, so it'll be a help to them.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

midori said:


> To be honest, you'd have done better to say something along the lines of 'I understand everyoe's concerns, but.... ' instead of being rude. All you have done is make it look like you'll just do what you want to do regardless of anything.
> 
> I gre with marthaMoo. I do not know of any 'national renowned rehoming organisation' that would rehome any dog wth a full time worker except in special circumstances. Perhapsyou could name them, so they can be reccomended to others, as I have seen countless posts on forums here people struggle to get a rescue dog due to working, so it'll be a help to them.


NONE of the rescues we have dealings with will rehome a dog to a full time worker and that includes the Dogs Trust and the RSPCA. I agree midori there WAS a nicer way of the OP wording that comment


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

I can see it from both points of view 

im not a full time worker but i use crates..............

yes i agree that the o/p could have worded her post better 

but she has been jumped on for sharing good news of what works for her dog :lol2:

What works for some people may not work for others everyone has their own ways of dealing with things dosnt make them bad people or owners just means they use different methods to some!


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

midori said:


> To be honest, you'd have done better to say something along the lines of 'I understand everyoe's concerns, but.... ' instead of being rude. All you have done is make it look like you'll just do what you want to do regardless of anything.
> 
> I gre with marthaMoo. I do not know of any 'national renowned rehoming organisation' that would rehome any dog wth a full time worker except in special circumstances. Perhapsyou could name them, so they can be reccomended to others, as I have seen countless posts on forums here people struggle to get a rescue dog due to working, so it'll be a help to them.


 
I wasn't being rude, but certainly can be if you like?? I was saying that I am through justifying my actions to anyone as really I don't need to and refuse to keep repeating myself for the sake of people reading into things that aren't there and making irrelevant comments. And yes I will continue to do what I'm doing regardless because I am not actually doing anything wrong - but there are peeps here who are certainly trying to make it look that way because things aren't done the way they would do them. I have repeatedly repeated myself again and again and it is just so pointless so what I am saying is think what you want, I am through repeating myself any longer. It does get to the point where you just get tired and bored of the bs, and that time has come.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

And if you read it correctly I said "rescue dog" not puppy. I then went on to mention puppy.

Your methods may of worked for you, they may not of though.Like I said just because there working now doesnt meant you wont have a young dog a few months down the line who then decides it doesnt like being left for long periods of time. Then what? Your going to change your working hours to spend more time with your dog?

And TBH I dont think being able to crate train a puppy so it can be left all day is anything to jump around about. A couple hours here and there is fine, full time, nope.

And thats my main point. Too many people get young pups and have no idea of the amount of time and imput needed. Then when the pup turns into a young dog and has issues about being left its out the door. I'm not saying everyone would do that, but it happens allot hence the reason most rescue centres do not rehome to full time workers and do not rehome pups to homes where they will be left for more than an hour or two a day. But I guess those rescues have no idea of what there talking about do they?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

marthaMoo said:


> And if you read it correctly I said "rescue dog" not puppy. I then went on to mention puppy.
> 
> Your methods may of worked for you, they may not of though.Like I said just because there working now doesnt meant you wont have a young dog a few months down the line who then decides it doesnt like being left for long periods of time. Then what? Your going to change your working hours to spend more time with your dog?
> 
> ...


 
I have to totally agree with you if i had know that i would ever go into fulltime work then i would never have got or taken on the dogs i have 

i do plan to go back to work but only part time which will be 3 hours a day mon to fri place of work being a 2 min walk out of my back door 

i dont like leaving my dogs for any longer than i have to but thats just me being a big softy and missing them too much when im not with them :lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> And if you read it correctly I said "rescue dog" not puppy. I then went on to mention puppy.
> 
> Your methods may of worked for you, they may not of though.Like I said just because there working now doesnt meant you wont have a young dog a few months down the line who then decides it doesnt like being left for long periods of time. Then what? Your going to change your working hours to spend more time with your dog?
> 
> ...


Have never said anything bad about rescues or anyones choices with regard to the care of dogs. Just stating what I was told. I applied out of interest and they were ready to come and do a homecheck regardless of me working full time. Anyways, I also said that the dogs *AREEEEEEEEE NOTTTTTTTTTTT LEFTTTTTTTTTTT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY* about a zillion times, but then you must have overlooked that a zillion times too. I am at the point now where I couldn't care less what anyone has read or not read, and if I didn't have someone come in 3 times a day what business it is of anyone elses??? think what you like... we can't all be perfect like a lot of you make yourselves out to be :lol2: 

And yes emmaj thank you, I wasn't asking for anyone's advice or comments or snobbery when I started this thread. I was sharing the results of what worked for *ME & MY family*!!! If you weren't interested or didn't agree, you should have just walked away.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

I cannot believe that we have gone through 10 pages of the same bs over and over and over again. I feel like a broken record. My jaw is aching :blahblah:

Thanks to you all who supported me and gave great advice :no1:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Breezy_One said:


> , what business it is of anyone elses??? .


 

Not that I even give a dam about you but


You posted it on a public forum and expected not to get opinons from others??


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Pimperella said:


> Not that I even give a dam about you but
> 
> 
> You posted it on a public forum and expected not to get opinons from others??


 I've just been watching and reading and I too am interested in which large national rescue organisation Breezy meant. I note she still hasn't actually answered that one just like it took 4 attempts on my part to get her to say that she planned to cage her dog for 8 hours.
So from the relucntance to answer I would say


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## loulou (Jan 18, 2006)

Just for the record when I was with my ex we rehomed a young dog from battersea and they were fully aware we both worked full time


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Pimperella said:


> Not that I even give a dam about you but
> 
> 
> You posted it on a public forum and expected not to get opinons from others??


 
Opinions yes snobbery and criticisms (if they were constructive and could make a difference then cool, if not then what's the point?? uummm there isn't one) lol


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> I've just been watching and reading and I too am interested in which large national rescue organisation Breezy meant. I note she still hasn't actually answered that one just like it took 4 attempts on my part to get her to say that she planned to cage her dog for 8 hours.
> So from the relucntance to answer I would say


 
See this is where I really should stop being pleasant and start giving you a little taste of your own, like you enjoy doing to others even though it's got nothing to do with you, but you know what?? I am so much better than that lol


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

loulou said:


> Just for the record when I was with my ex we rehomed a young dog from battersea and they were fully aware we both worked full time


thank you loulou and I didn't even have to type a thing (even though this is not the trust I was talking about) which means there must be more than one well known rescue that considers full time workers as suitable adoptees oo00oo very interesting!


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> I've just been watching and reading and I too am interested in which large national rescue organisation Breezy meant. I note she still hasn't actually answered that one just like it took 4 attempts on my part to get her to say that she planned to cage her dog for 8 hours.
> So from the relucntance to answer I would say


 
And you know why I don't answer coz it's none of ur gad damn business! :lol2: And you know why else I don't answer?? Because I choose not to! :whistling2: I believe I have made it abundantly clear that your snobbery is not welcome yet you keep coming back for more. You are nothing but a trouble maker and one day lady you are gonna meet your match as I believe in karma. You have nothing nice to say to anyone unless you get what you want. To hell with that lady - I pity the day karma catches up with you:lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Breezy_One said:


> And you know why I don't answer coz it's none of ur gad damn business! :lol2: And you know why else I don't answer?? Because I choose not to! :whistling2: I believe I have made it abundantly clear that your snobbery is not welcome yet you keep coming back for more. You are nothing but a trouble maker and one day lady you are gonna meet your match as I believe in karma. You have nothing nice to say to anyone unless you get what you want. To hell with that lady - I pity the day karma catches up with you:lol2:


 what happened to


> See this is where I really should stop being pleasant and start giving you a little taste of your own, like you enjoy doing to others even though it's got nothing to do with you, but you know what?? I am so much better than that lol


?
I thought you were better than that :lol2:

As for 'snobbery' I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the definition of the word.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Funny, having read through this thread, you've done a lot of slagging off of people anyway but then claim you have been pleasant.
sit down and re read this thread. then think about what you have said previously.


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> what happened to ?
> I thought you were better than that :lol2:
> 
> As for 'snobbery' I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the definition of the word.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


 
I know what it is and you are the definition of it and I haven't been unpleasant. This is the nice me :lol2:


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## Breezy_One (Jan 12, 2006)

Pimperella said:


> Funny, having read through this thread, you've done a lot of slagging off of people anyway but then claim you have been pleasant.
> sit down and re read this thread. then think about what you have said previously.


 
Haven't slagged anyone off and certainly have not disagreed with the way peeps choose to care for their animals. I like the nice authority you seem to show in your text, but honey I am not one of your dogs nor am I a kid so don't wash with me :lol2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

Breezy_One said:


> Haven't slagged anyone off and certainly have not disagreed with the way peeps choose to care for their animals. I like the nice authority you seem to show in your text, but honey I am not one of your dogs nor am I a kid so don't wash with me :lol2:


 Wouldn't want to wash you, I'm sure your capable of that yourself. Nor would I want to wash with you either.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

yet another thread closed because members do not know how to conduct themselves and show themselves to be internet fish wives and bullys


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