# bad bite



## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

just found out that the cobraman(ray hunter) has been tagged by a large eastern diamondback and is in a very serious condition on ventilation, apparently he has already recieved 32 vials of crofab and had a fasciotomy also his kidneys are not functioning properly. 
hope he pulls through ok


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

here is a link to a thread about it TRR Forums -> News/Announcements


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

sorry to hear that. soundes like he's screwed.. damn! an eastern is so bad. i hope he recovers. kidneys shutting down is a bad thing. they don't like lack of blood flow. ...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

yeah, i just looked over his site. his number came up. i hope he lives fully intact. he knew what he was doing...a pro...the pics say he was pushing his luck some...i will pray for his speddy and complete recovery.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

that advert you were looking at for vine snakes was his habu, apparently he is better than he was


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i kinow i was scared to death, shaking when i caught my first eastern by hand. it was big!! and i had no tools. i was on my bike. i held it it...shaking of course...i knew it could kill me... and opened it's mouth with a stick. tthose fangs...not no p*ssyf*ed fangs, but big ones...that yellow, clear venom poured out!! i shook even more. if cobraman took a direct hit then god bless him that he is still alive. an eastern diamondback will ruin your life. i'm glad that he wasn't in the middle of no where in lee county florida with a 10 mile hike to get help. he'll tell you how that scenerio goes usually


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

i know its a big hit from an eastern but due to his increased immunity to venom he stands a better chance than most, fingers crossed


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

this is him?? kingsnake.com Classifieds

well, i guess it is!! hey! be careful big guy!! we can't be losing good herpers over dumb stuff!!:2thumb: be better soon!!


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

yeah thats the guy


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

glad he wasn't out camping!!!


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Hope he recovers even though i don't know who he is!! I remember seeing a program about Eastern Diamondback's and they leaked venom from it and it was a very concentrated yellow so he will be lucky to pull through!! Where did he get bitten? I can't be bothered to read the article!!:2thumb:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

easterndiamondback bite is about the worst! swo much venom and a big one will put it so deep in your tissues, maybe hit an artery. ask any doctor, it's a mess. getting to a proper ER is the thing. god help you if you have to hike out of somewhere to your car to get help...and being scared doesn't help things much...just gets the blood pumping.


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

are eastern nuerotoxic?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

they have a mix really. but they do massive tissue damage and they inject so damn much venom into you, and deep. it's a nightmare for ER doctors.


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

thats a big shame, isnt it easier to recover (notice i said easier not EASY) for blood clot than tissue because tissue cannot be replaced?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

shit thats well bad, poor bloke he hasnt posted on venomroom in a while, he would be the first to admit hes a bit complacent when handling hots, in August David Weathers got tagged by a EDB as well, and they are both good freinds, he pulled through but it was a bad bite.


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## Justin_P (Dec 14, 2006)

That looks like a very bad bite!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

reading through that it looks like he is improving which is a good sign.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

shoot!! umteen bottles of crofab!!!!


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

By Paul Quinlan 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer 

Monday, October 29, 2007 

PORT ST. LUCIE — The "Cobraman" was bitten again. 

Raymond Hunter, 44, something of a local guru on poisonous snakes, remained in critical condition late today after one of his pets, a diamondback rattlesnake, sunk its fangs into his right hand early Saturday morning. 

A neighbor told police he saw a seemingly distracted Hunter hustle from his condo to his car around 12:30 a.m., according to a police report. An hour-and-a-half later, someone alerted nurses at St. Lucie Medical Center that a man, Hunter, appeared to be passed out in the hospital parking lot behind the wheel of his car, the report said. 

Word of the rattlesnake bite panicked Hunter's neighbors at the Midpoint Place I condominiums more than his friends, who say the "Cobraman" has suffered vicious bites in the past and survived to tell about them. 

Neighbors are less certain of their own well-being. 

"All the neighbors that live near him are afraid that the snakes can get through the toilet or through other places," said Joe Sevia, who sits on the condo association's board. Condo rules say residents may not own a dog that weighs more than 15 pounds, much less a diamondback rattlesnake. The board ordered the Cobraman to get rid of his snakes after a previous complaint. 

"I know he was bitter," Sevia said. "And I know the neighbors were afraid." This is hardly the first time a snakebite has sent the Cobraman to the hospital. Hunter's website, cobraman.net, chronicles his past bites with photos of himself in intensive care and close-ups of his own fingers, gnarled, swollen, discolored and bloodied from the bites of vipers, cobras and rattlesnakes. 

Although he "immunizes" himself against bites, injecting himself with a monthly booster shot of nine snake venoms, a friend, Maristela Duffield, said he did not treat himself for bites from a diamondback rattlesnake. 

Duffield said Hunter's confidence around snakes is his weakness, as Hunter admits on his website. 

"He's probably just had too much confidence," she said today. "And the snake was quicker than he was." But she also expected he would recover. 

"He might come out with some damage, but he'll make it," she said. 

When animal control and hospital officials need advice on how to treat a snakebite, they call the "Cobraman," Duffield said. She said an unwitting nurse dialed him up as they rolled Hunter into the emergency room Saturday, only to realize the error when their patient's cell phone began ringing in his pocket. 

Duffield said that Hunter had collected the snake from the city animal control only two days before it bit him. Animal control often calls Hunter when they take in a venomous snake and turned over two snakes to him last week, said city spokesman Ed Cunningham. The city could not say whether one of the two was responsible, he said. He also said Hunter violates no city ordinances by keeping the snakes in his condo, unit 202 at 1530 S.E. Royal Green Cir. Although police checked to see that the apartment is secure, animal control officials have not checked to see how many snakes, if any, are inside, Cunningham said. 

Although Hunter's website advertises snakes for sale, Duffield said he keeps those reptiles at another location. She also said his snake collection is not so much business as it is an infatuation. 

"For him, it's more than a hobby," she said. 

Hunter has a doctorate in herpetology (the study of reptiles and amphibians), according to his Web site, which does not list the college granting the degree. He has a license to possess venomous snakes, according to the city. The Web site also says he began immunizing himself against snake bites after discussing the procedure in 1991 with Bill Haast. Haast opened the Miami Serpentarium in 1947, extracting venom from snakes at the tourist attraction until 1985. 

Hunter's friend, Lester Massengill, died in 1995 from a bite of an Asiatic cobra - the kind used by Indian snake charmers - while taking it out of a canvas bag at a Port St. Lucie warehouse. 

In 1999, Hunter pleaded no contest to charges of fraudulently obtaining a controlled substance, for which he was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison. 

Staff researchers Melanie Mena and Sammy Alzofon contributed to this story. 


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/tcoast/epaper/2007/10/29/1029slsnake.html


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I posted this response the first time I read this article on another frourm... 

I hope he pulls through with minimum damage. 

Best Wishes!!! 

I have to wonder why they added this little jewel in there. 

[Ouote] In 1999, Hunter pleaded no contest to charges of fraudulently obtaining a controlled substance, for which he was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison.


> WTF does that have to do with anything. The bite and all that went along wasn't news enough. They had to drag up the past. What a bunch of assholes. I hate the news they can never just report the story.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i don't know him but i do know from my meager keeping of hots that you you can't f*&k around at all. i got bit by a copperhead and that was enoungh for me. he just messed up i guess. because keeping all hots properly, there is NEVER a chance of being nailed.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

HABU said:


> because keeping all hots properly, there is NEVER a chance of being nailed.


I have to disagree even the best keepers get tagged accidents happen. Even in ideal conditions. 

I don't know the guy. He does seem to push his luck far to often. The bare foot free handling pics are a bit much but hey that's his thing as long as he's not hurting anyone else more power to him. I know they don't need to drag his past up when he is already paying a high cost for this mistake. Be it stupidity or bad timing from the sounds of it he is in rough shape. They didn't need to take a low blow like that.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Eric said:


> I have to disagree even the best keepers get tagged accidents happen. Even in ideal conditions.
> 
> I don't know the guy. He does seem to push his luck far to often. The bare foot free handling pics are a bit much but hey that's his thing as long as he's not hurting anyone else more power to him. I know they don't need to drag his past up when he is already paying a high cost for this mistake. Be it stupidity or bad timing from the sounds of it he is in rough shape. They didn't need to take a low blow like that.


yeah eric, he's paying big time but i disagree that accidents happen. that crap i have always spoke of as protocol is what i mean. you have to do things like a ten year old can do it. it has to be idiot proof. open cage....hook snake....put snake into box...clean cage...put snake back in.... putting your hand in there to take out a water bowl because YOU KNOW the snake is asleep leaves you wide open. i'll never get bitten again. i promise that. he'll be the first to say where he screwed up. but with hots, you don't get too many chances. now they may run him out of town with his stuff as danger to the community. does he work? will he get a divorce? need a new job? pay for all the expense of moving to the next county? lot of stuff. but i figure he's already made plans for this..


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

HABU said:


> i have always spoke of as protocol is what i mean. you have to do things like a ten year old can do it. it has to be idiot proof. open cage....hook snake....put snake into box...clean cage...put snake back in....
> 
> 
> > Sounds good in theory but it doesn't always work like that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

no, we are on the same page. you know you can't be f#$king around with the bad guys because this stuff happens to the best of them. imagine a greenhorn that had a ball python and now figures he can do anything? haha!! no, anyone having hots knows the game they are in. if i get nailed, i don't need anyone telling me where i went wrong ....i'll know by then. yeah, eric, we agree on how to do things.....be careful....:2thumb:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm off to bed got some new snakes to pick up tomorrow. 

I'm not sure what you meant above but some snakes ride a hook great and are very manageable. While others refuse to ride a hook and go into attack mode as soon as they sense the key entering the lock. A plan is good but rarely works with these guys. you learn how to keep them fairly calm and counter there movements to get them to do what you want. the first minute or two can be fast paced for lack of a better word. I'm not sure this is what you were saying so don't go defense on me.

I also took it as you don't need to spend excessive time working them just get them out back in and move on. I'm thinking that is what you meant. you'll have to clarify. 

Well I'm tired will have some new snakes tomorrow. 1.1 Panamint rattlers 1.1 slender hognose vipers 0.1 normal burmese python. I'll post some pics give time and mood. 

Take it easy Habu. I always look forward to the late night conversations with you :2thumb:


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

Within the herp community in Florida, and the US, he is respected.. I always felt a wee bit uneasy with some of hios methouds, but hey, he paid his medical insurance, had his wee book, and was taking responsibility foir his own actions. I hear the surgeons have felt the need to cut his arm open all the way up.. that is gonna be hard, and he must have taken a full deep load. Hopefully he is past the worst of it, and now they just have to worry about the skin grafts etc


In regards to how to handle hots, I prefer the method HABU says, and only handled when I really needed to.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I really hope he pulls through - he seems to be a knowledgeable herpetologist....

However I've got to say, the only word I would use to describe the majority of his pictures on his website is "irresponsible". Especially free handling of large snakes such as king cobras outside in open space, yet in what is possibly a populated area (kennels containing dog in the background)... if that tagged him and pegged it.. I think it would be a risk to the general public.

I really hope he pulls through, and perhaps be a bit more careful in the future.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

hes posted on venomroom a bit, he injects venom to build up a resistance like Bill Haast did, hes done it since 91 I think he said, with various cobra venoms and been nailed quite alot by cobras, he is a knowledgable bloke, and even when he posted the pics he stresses to never copy what he does, and admits to it being stupid, he said that self immunising has made him less careful when handling them.


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

I hope he gets well soon without to much damage but he is guna have some damage.

Then I hope he looks for a new interest or reptiles that won't kill him as I think been tagged 48 times by venomous snakes is not right. What is this man thinking.

If you had a gun and was to shoot your self 48 times over a few years what would people say :censor:

SO HOW COME NO ONE IS SAYING THIS MAN IS :censor:

This is just my view and I'm not guna be dragged in to argue over it...Brian


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I just read this on the site which is good news

"Ray is doing great! Still taking dialysis, but his kidneys are slowly coming back online. He is in great spirits and alot more talkative. He was out of bed today and sitting up in a chair with a whole lot less tubes sticking out of him as well."


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## mleadley (Oct 1, 2007)

That sucks


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