# Parent reared Vs Hand reared?



## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Hello everyone, i was wondering what your experiences with keeping and taming Parent reared animals to Hand reared? In particular i'm on about coatimundis but i suppose its quite similar with raccoon's and some other exotic mammals. What difficulties did you have with either one and how do you go about them? Even if i do get a parent reared one it still would've been socialized and used to people so would it make a major difference if i had it young?

Thanks


Ismail


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

reptismail said:


> Hello everyone, i was wondering what your experiences with keeping and taming Parent reared animals to Hand reared? In particular i'm on about coatimundis but i suppose its quite similar with raccoon's and some other exotic mammals. What difficulties did you have with either one and how do you go about them? Even if i do get a parent reared one it still would've been socialized and used to people so would it make a major difference if i had it young?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


Its parent reared for me 

I have a parent reared **** an he is fantatsic 

he isnt as snuggly as a hand reared but he still comes for a cuddle and sits with me.

I havent had any temper tantrums from him nor had any nasty bites, yes i have had play nips an wrestle scratches but only in play never aggression lol 

when he is told no or told off he dosn challenge me he just runs off and sulks then comes back shortly after all hallo mum what ya doing as if nothing happened lol 

so for me im parent reared all the way :flrt:


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

reptismail said:


> Hello everyone, i was wondering what your experiences with keeping and taming Parent reared animals to Hand reared? In particular i'm on about coatimundis but i suppose its quite similar with raccoon's and some other exotic mammals. What difficulties did you have with either one and how do you go about them? Even if i do get a parent reared one it still would've been socialized and used to people so would it make a major difference if i had it young?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


Im with Emma on this.

Nothing should be hand reared to make it a better pet..

If for any reason hand rearing is needed the main objective should be to get back in with their own kind..

Hand rearing does make a vast difference when it comes to them becoming parents as they havent learned from their own..

I do not believe in it in any way.

Even an animal not hand reared can be socialised to humans..

They relate to you for food etc and get steady to your daily tasks...

Why anyone would want hand reared as pets.

Thats not the love of the animal thats what you want to turn it into.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Im with Emma on this.
> 
> Nothing should be hand reared to make it a better pet..
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you on this one peter 

I have to say i was petrified getting a parent reared raccoon as i knew how stubborn and head strong they can be............but im so glad i did get parent reared and i wouldnt be without him 

wyot has been so different to that compared to what i have read on here about hand reared ones..........he seems easy comapred to them :lol2:
like i said i dont have temper tantrums and he still has that element of warieness of humans which makes it so much easier to work with than that of an animal thats as bold as brass with no warieness of people and things 

i won wyots trust round by doing what you said peter using food and tastey treats and he is a star


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Awsome  thanks guys. Im going to be getting a parent reared one, its just id have the choice of both so wanted to make sure i was making the right decision.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

reptismail said:


> Awsome  thanks guys. Im going to be getting a parent reared one, its just id have the choice of both so wanted to make sure i was making the right decision.


 
No problems 

just my opinion is hand reared dosnt make a better animal infact from what i have read it makes them harder work 

but thats just my opinion others may disagree with it :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Generally I would say the vast majority of parent-reared animals make the better pet. I have minimal experience with Raccoons, & no experience with Coatis, but as Raccoons can be quite nasty if the mood takes them, a hand-reared Raccoon would be more dangerous than a parent-reared one, as hand-reared have no fear of humans. 

Then there is the lack of natural behaviour in a hand-reared animal. This is very important with species such as primates, as they learn maternal/paternal behaviours from their family. 

Many of the most respected parrot experts now recommend parent-reared parrots over hand-reared, due to commonly seen abnormal behaviours such as feather plucking & excessive screeching in hand-reared parrots.

Hand-reared animals may well be cuddly, friendlier & seemingly easier to look after, but this can change dramatically once the animal reaches sexual maturity. It is well worth putting in the extra work with a parent-reared animal to get your results.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Generally I would say the vast majority of parent-reared animals make the better pet.* I have minimal experience with Raccoons, & no experience with Coatis, but as Raccoons can be quite nasty if the mood takes them, a hand-reared Raccoon would be more dangerous than a parent-reared one, as hand-reared have no fear of humans. *
> 
> Then there is the lack of natural behaviour in a hand-reared animal. This is very important with species such as primates, as they learn maternal/paternal behaviours from their family.
> 
> ...


 
i 100% agree with you colin on this 

like i said my raccoon aint as sweet and cuddley as hand reared ones but he does like to come and have his cuddles i gained his trust with treats and food i now no longer need that as he will just come up an plop himself on my lap when he wants a back scratch or head tickle 

I have never had a tantrum from him or nasty bite as when i say no to him or challenge him he backs away and runs off to sulk as he knows im human and not a raccoon so still has a wariness so i dont have to fight with him and come out worse :lol2::lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Generally I would say the vast majority of parent-reared animals make the better pet. I have minimal experience with Raccoons, & no experience with Coatis, but as Raccoons can be quite nasty if the mood takes them, a hand-reared Raccoon would be more dangerous than a parent-reared one, as hand-reared have no fear of humans.
> 
> Then there is the lack of natural behaviour in a hand-reared animal. This is very important with species such as primates, as they learn maternal/paternal behaviours from their family.
> 
> ...


 
Its the same with handreared dogs and cats, which is why when Im handrearing any they get integrated with my other animals once weaning starts. This is so they can learn how to behave like the species they are.


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Generally I would say the vast majority of parent-reared animals make the better pet. I have minimal experience with Raccoons, & no experience with Coatis, but as Raccoons can be quite nasty if the mood takes them, a hand-reared Raccoon would be more dangerous than a parent-reared one, as hand-reared have no fear of humans.
> 
> Then there is the lack of natural behaviour in a hand-reared animal. This is very important with species such as primates, as they learn maternal/paternal behaviours from their family.
> 
> ...


Ahh that makes sense  Thanks Zoo man


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## slugsiss32 (Nov 14, 2010)

I think parent reared is better! So long as the animal is handled as a baby it would still make a great pet. The parents do a far better job than us. I hand reared some baby Lovebirds rather pointlessly. They were lovely and tame, but as i read there is a week when they are about 7 weeks old when they are weaning where they turn rather confident and nippy if not handled enough, which is what happened with mine. They are still lovely pets, but i could have had the same outcome if they were parent reared, plus they probably wouldn't be so confident with screeching and biting, now they hiss too, lovely, but i'd never give them up for anything.  My Sennie is hand reared and i love him to pieces though, i wouldn't have him any other way. Instead of hand rearing its more important to find a way of getting the animal to trust you, which can be done other ways.


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## Indicus (May 3, 2009)

I finish off my wallabies by handrearing them. The stage at which I remove them is when they are fully furred and they are regularly hopping in and out of the pouch. At this point they could probably survive on there own as they are eating grass, twigs, hay, pellets that the adults are, thats why I class it as finishing them off. I just feed them with a bottle twice a day and slowly wean them off, this I think makes them tame and more managable as wallabies are naturally very flighty animals and when scared or even approached will just run into fences or can just drop dead though fright.

I have handreared very young wallabies that have fallen from the pouch but would never remove a joey that was still pink or dependant on his mother as its just to much hard work and they become just as tame finishing them off anyway so it just seems unnecessary


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

We have a handreared Raccppn ( we did this ourselves as mum attacked the litter and killed all but her ) and a parent reared Raccoon. There is a distinct difference between the two behaviour and personality.

Bandit the parent reared Raccoon is a much more stable personality. You could take food out of his mouth if you wanted to. There have been no aggressive outburst whether verbal of physical and seems to know his boundries. 

Kucki although not physically aggressive she has no problems telling you she is displeased about something. She is verbally food aggressive. Kucki also pushes the boundaries and has no fear of humans.

Although though I believe parent reared animals do make better pets, I do not believe it is as simple as that. I think a number of other factors can play a role, ie age, sex, neutered / un neutred, speyed / unspeyed, owner boundries etc. You are always going to get animals that do the opposite. I also think time will tell on whether my opinion is right or wrong as in reality the keeping of some of these animals as we do is fairly new.

We are firm believers in letting the mum / parents bring up the babies and just handle for short periods when it is felt safe to do so. We have done this on a number of occasions with differing animals and touch would the animals are extrememly balanced.

Best Wishes

Neil


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

i had to hand rear 5 wallabies since i began keeping them, only 1 survived because it was already beginning to eat solids.
parent rearing creates a bond between the baby and the parent, where the mother can teach the young of its diet, behaviour, who and what to trust etc.
as for hand reared, it knows nothing of its behaviour, of its species etc.
many people hand rear to raise he creatures tamely, but with the right amount of handling, treat-feeding and lots of patience they can be even more friendly!


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

A year or two ago, 99% of response would have been that hand reared animals make better pets. 

It is heartening to see the tide turn in favour of well adjusted parent reared animals who are simply well *socialised* - as opposed to hand reared, imprinted on humans, confused and disfunctional.

You still find people selling 'hand reared' animals for premium prices as if they are worth more than parent raised. But hopefully there are less buyers out there supporting this practice.

I think that on the whole, people now agree that babies should only be pulled for survival reasons and not some old misguided idea about it making better pets.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> A year or two ago, 99% of response would have been that hand reared animals make better pets.
> 
> It is heartening to see the tide turn in favour of well adjusted parent reared animals who are simply well *socialised* - as opposed to hand reared, imprinted on humans, confused and disfunctional.
> 
> ...


Its still that way pouchie..

Its the breeders that seem to be changing.

Joebloggs still wants hand reared.

Well some breaders anyway:2thumb:


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## RaccoonsRule (Aug 24, 2009)

Would like to make a note on this one! The babies I sell which are hand reared have come from problem parenting and Therefore i have been approached to rear them the reason why I charge more for handreared babies is to cover the cost of me hand rearing them... Whelpi doesn't come cheap!!... I much prefer to socialize and sell parent reared babies which I have to say most of this years babies have been parent reared! My own breeding raccoons are very friendly and doubt i will have any problems being able to handle them whilst mum and dad are reaign them .


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

RaccoonsRule said:


> Would like to make a note on this one! The babies I sell which are hand reared have come from problem parenting and Therefore i have been approached to rear them the reason why I charge more for handreared babies is to cover the cost of me hand rearing them... Whelpi doesn't come cheap!!... I much prefer to socialize and sell parent reared babies which I have to say most of this years babies have been parent reared! My own breeding raccoons are very friendly and doubt i will have any problems being able to handle them whilst mum and dad are reaign them .


Dont see why you see the need for any explanation...

Sometimes hand rearing is nessesary....

Dont know the first thing about racoons.(except nice to look at)

I always relate to primates as its my thing..

Sorry if ive confused anyone.


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## RaccoonsRule (Aug 24, 2009)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Dont see why you see the need for any explanation...
> 
> Sometimes hand rearing is nessesary....
> 
> ...




It wasn't directed at you hun... I just know there are certain people on here that have gone out of their way to slate and attack me... For what reason i can only guess at... I know a few people who hand rear every one of their own animals they breed because they can get more money for them... I don't charge much more for handreared babies only what it costs me to rear them. I don't know why but I always get this incredible urge to explain myself on what ever I do lol... I think it comes from the attacking and slagging off I got early part of this year!!


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## africa (Sep 12, 2008)

I don't think there are many people on here who have that vast an experience to be able to say with any certainty which is better.

I have purchased both hand reared and parent reared animals and I would say that the end result depends on the temperament of the individual animal as much as anything else.

.... having said that it was very obvious that by hand rearing one of our raccoons from birth ( and no he wasn't pulled) the said raccoon was less able than if he had been parent reared .....upon getting another baby raccoon that had been looked after by her parents for the first 6 weeks the difference was quite incredible as far as ability was concerned....the hand rear was way behind developmentally, he was far less skilled in all movements and also in the sounds that he made...or rather didnt make.

...To this day he still does not vocalise as much and is more clumsy. He is however very gentle and does not in any way take the liberties that are so often attributed to hand rears.
We also have 2 coatis, one hand reared and one parent reared...they are both very pleasant and non aggressive so far and I do not think that I can spot, as yet much difference between them other than the hand rear is more confident with strangers.

Our meerkats bred recently and I was asked more than once if we were prepared to let them go before they were weaned....our answer was a definite no, there is no way that I would have taken them away from their parents, they have now gone to good homes, all healthy, all parent reared and all handleable.
There are instances when hand rearing is necessary and an arduous job it is too, taking time, patience, cost and hours of worry. This is very different to 'pulling' babies in the hope of a better pet.

Raccoons Rule I've seen how many parent rears you have sold this year and I know how much effort you put into making sure all your animals are as socialised as possible in order to make sure that it is as easy a transition as possible for both animal and new owner.Sad you have to feel you have to explain yourself......but don't blame you one bit.

Too many wolves in sheeps clothing around here......


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## RaccoonsRule (Aug 24, 2009)

Raccoons Rule I've seen how many parent rears you have sold this year and I know how much effort you put into making sure all your animals are as socialised as possible in order to make sure that it is as easy a transition as possible for both animal and new owner.Sad you have to feel you have to explain yourself......but don't blame you one bit.

Too many wolves in sheeps clothing around here......[/QUOTE]


Thank you Africa, You are right Handrearing is very hard work and is not something i would do just to have a 'good pet'. And I do spend many many hours with the animals to socialise them before leaving me.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

(I don't think there are many people on here who have that vast an experience to be able to say with any certainty which is better.)

This i would dissagree when it comes to monkeys..

Its the experiance past down from generation to generation..

But finantial gain alwys seems to win over as to sell most want a cute cuddly companion..

Its getting so like the states..

Dont know when it comes to other animals 

It effects monkeys in getting socialised and going on to re-produce and thats been a proven factor for years .

Its always down to demand..

We need to educate to change the demand for wanting an animal not to be an animal, wanting it to be something to suit us..

People that want, that dont trully want the animal for what it should be...

Natural and learned and stimulated by education of their own....

Would like to hear more about the hand rearing of racoons though just to compare the work involved..
It sounds very much as hard work as primatess..

Added to that the work trying to reintrigate back to the troop....


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## Indicus (May 3, 2009)

I know its off topic, but the number of people who have contacted me asking if I will sell them a joey for them to bottle feed is crazy. When I say we don't do this but they will be ready in a few months time when properly weaned they say they don't want one if they can't handrear it themselves. Makes you wonder what they are going to do with them once they no longer require bottle feeding 

They watch programs on animal planet and think its all fun and games.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Indicus said:


> I know its off topic, but the number of people who have contacted me asking if I will sell them a joey for them to bottle feed is crazy. When I say we don't do this but they will be ready in a few months time when properly weaned they say they don't want one if they can't handrear it themselves. Makes you wonder what they are going to do with them once they no longer require bottle feeding
> 
> They watch programs on animal planet and think its all fun and games.


Not off topic at all..

Its a prime example of demand..

Why not want an animal to be an animal...

If we all keep saying no way..

It may be a path to change..


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

Indicus said:


> I know its off topic, but the number of people who have contacted me asking if I will sell them a joey for them to bottle feed is crazy. When I say we don't do this but they will be ready in a few months time when properly weaned they say they don't want one if they can't handrear it themselves. Makes you wonder what they are going to do with them once they no longer require bottle feeding
> 
> They watch programs on animal planet and think its all fun and games.


I had the same question with the skunk kits I recently reared because mum produced no milk........and the answer was NO. My god, the lack of sleep & endless hours of clock watching............hand rearing is not an easy task & unfortunately those of us who have experienced it could never explain to others exactly what its like........especially to those who want to buy an unweaned (an illegal practice in the UK) baby & rear it themselves.

Parrots are a prime example of hand rearing gone mad........so mad that the supply of "parent reared breeding stock" has diminished dramatically. Basically everyone started pulling chicks from every clutch to the point the parents now don't even know how to rear their own babies :devil: OK, yes they can learn again over time, but the deaths of several chicks is likely along the way till they do learn. Now there are so many hand reared African Greys out there, the sales have slowed up, but young breeding stock is few & far between.........and partly due to the ban on wild imports that parrot breeders relied upon due to cheapness, rather than having forethought about rearing their own future breeding birds.
Hand rearing of parrots was actually designed to keep rarer species stock levels up, just like they still don in many zoos now, but breeders realised they could make more money by producing tame pet birds & of course the demand for an instant "just add water" uber tame pet increased, just as society changed & we all wanted instant results without putting much effort into anything (OK not everyone is like this & I am pretty certain there are plenty of animal lovers on here who happily put LOADS of time into their pets/animals).

I think time will tell with exotics like Raccoons, Coati's etc as to which will make the better pet...........but at the same time, as more generations are bred within a "domestic" setting, there is bound to be a change with some personality traits, especially if people take the time & use selective breeding programs to include temperament (apparently even Labrador dogs are becoming more aggressive because breeders are not being as selective according to one of my vets :gasp


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

glad you brought up the illegal to sell unweaned babes bit as theres a few people on here that still do sell not properly or unweaned babys


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

adamntitch said:


> glad you brought up the illegal to sell unweaned babes bit as theres a few people on here that still do sell not properly or unweaned babys


I know of one for certain!


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

I collected Atuki raccoon when he was around 5 weeks old. I bottle fed him from day one and we had a real struggle to get him to eat ANYTHING apart from his bottle. He never lapped at anything, refused fruit, veg, meat, biscuits. I had a fair few mad messages to Sallie and god bless her she reassured me every time. Atuki finaly started eating cat food at around 14 weeks and never looked back. 

If/when i get another raccoon it would without a doubt be a parent reared baby. Atuki struggles to understand what "no" means. He loves to sit on top of the marine tank even though he knows its wrong. He can have the odd temper tantrum and other than badly scratched arms and hands he has been ok up to now. Oh, he did bite Barrys finger and pierced the nail all the way through.....and he also managed to get amouthful of genitals when he was chewing on the toggle of barrys tracksuit bottoms! but on the whole he is a (head strong) joy to keep! He has caused alot of surface damage to the house too. Ripped wall paper, keys ripped off laptop , broken cups/plates/ornamnents..........But i wouldnt swap him


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

Hmmm I really dunno as I've not interacted with a PR raccoon....I'm with Sallie on this one I really think it depends on the personality of the animal.

I do think in general PR is the better option and HR should be finished off (if at all) but ideally not from birth. 

Oska is handreared too....and yeah he is head strong but in general I can take things from him 9/10 and he defin understands no. He scuttles away if I raise my voice lol. He does come skulking back though and tries his luck. I liken him to a perpetual 2 year old!

You get used to raccoon proofing things...it's just a way of life now. I have huskies/malamutes too and same goes with them. And I wouldn't necessarily say Oska is anymore work than them. But in saying that anyone who has Huskies or Mals knows they are a lot more work than average dogs.

With birds, parrots in particular I absolutely think PR is the way. HR parrots end up crazy IMO and experience. 

I'd like to see most animals PR but if possible handled from as early as possible so they are used to and actually like human contact.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

*genitals....*

....a mouthful of.......:gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp:.


My legs have gone funny!
Mind you, i bet all of your hubby went funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lin (OH) is extremely keen on a coonie........I am just thinking along the lines of I want to have a sex life, too.:lol2:


Dave. Nurturing his, erm, danglies!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

sam gamgee said:


> ....a mouthful of.......:gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp:.
> 
> 
> My legs have gone funny!
> ...


 
its got to be daveyboyo lol :flrt::lol2:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

sam gamgee said:


> ....a mouthful of.......:gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp:.
> 
> 
> My legs have gone funny!
> ...


I have never seen a quicker reaction from a man in my life. barry sprung up from the sofa and nearly threw Atuki trough the TV. Luckily e didnt quite break the skin (imagine explaining THAT in casualty!) but barry was very very bruised. Atuki isnt allowed to play with the drawstring on trousers anymore :lol2:


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