# Snake advice - small and friendly.



## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Hi I'm looking for a small snake species that has a good temperament and doesn't grow too big, I know there are corns (can get big) and hoggies but can anyone recommend an other species that may be easy to obtain.
I used to keep African house snakes and garters but wondered what other keepers recommend.
Thanks in advance.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

DanOfThe70s said:


> Hi I'm looking for a small snake species that has a good temperament and doesn't grow too big, I know there are corns (can get big) and hoggies but can anyone recommend an other species that may be easy to obtain.
> I used to keep African house snakes and garters but wondered what other keepers recommend.
> Thanks in advance.


Small & friendly:
Mexican milks
Pueblan milks
Nelson's milks.
All the rosy boas.
Easy to obtain:
None of them.
Mexican milks are almost impossible to find, Pueblans & Nelsons are available once in a while, as are the several species of rosy, usually coastals.


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Cheers for the list looks like the finding is the issue, much appreciated 👍


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

You can find garters with some regularity but if size is an issue, avoid female Mexican garters. There are a number of subspecies of Mexican garter often seen, but females get BIG. As in, capable of taking day old chicks and breeder mice. The males are smaller. Chequereds are often seen, which are a manageable size. Just be aware that the price of garters have gone through the roof.
Hogs are venomous, which is a point to consider, but are easy to get hold of.
You could have a look at children's and spotted pythons, not big, easy to keep.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

ian14 said:


> You can find garters with some regularity but if size is an issue, avoid female Mexican garters. There are a number of subspecies of Mexican garter often seen, but females get BIG. As in, capable of taking day old chicks and breeder mice. The males are smaller. Chequereds are often seen, which are a manageable size. Just be aware that the price of garters have gone through the roof.
> Hogs are venomous, which is a point to consider, but are easy to get hold of.
> *You could have a look at children's and spotted pythons, not big, easy to keep.*


I forgot about those, silly as I have one!
Fairly easy to get, too- easier to get than the milks & rosies at any rate.


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> You can find garters with some regularity but if size is an issue, avoid female Mexican garters. There are a number of subspecies of Mexican garter often seen, but females get BIG. As in, capable of taking day old chicks and breeder mice. The males are smaller. Chequereds are often seen, which are a manageable size. Just be aware that the price of garters have gone through the roof.
> Hogs are venomous, which is a point to consider, but are easy to get hold of.
> You could have a look at children's and spotted pythons, not big, easy to keep.


Thanks Ian appreciate the advice, never thought of a python tbh but will definitely look into them.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

DanOfThe70s said:


> Thanks Ian appreciate the advice, never thought of a python tbh but will definitely look into them.


They are more colubrid than python in appearance and behaviour. Rarely reach 4 feet, 3 feet is more common. Excellent feeders, gentle, generally have a calm and non defensive manner


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Which ones are you referring to buddy? 
Which is more colubrid than python?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

DanOfThe70s said:


> Which ones are you referring to buddy?
> Which is more colubrid than python?


Spotted and children's pythons


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Oh right cheers buddy


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

A thumbs up for Spotted Pythons from me too, very inquisitive (which gives the impression they are "friendly"), great to handle and although nocturnal quite often see mine active during the day and especially the evening.


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Thanks will definitely look into these too and do a bit of research 👍


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

I would vote for Antaresia as well!

Some individuals can be a handful, some bitey, but more often curious, and confident nature; makes for an engaging pet snake.

Spotted pythons
Cape York or Blonde spotted pythons (biggest)
Bit smaller
Childrens python (faded/reduced pattern)
with Stimsons python (large blotched patterns, depending on locality or line, usually more expensive)
There are the Pygmy banded / Anthill occasionally as well.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

You might consider one of the mountain kingsnake species. I breed knoblochi, and they're an absolute joy. Small (~2 ft), docile, and beautiful. Once they're used to FT rodents they're pretty reliable feeders. Grey banded kings are similar. Not sure how available these are in the UK, but worth seeking out.


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Thanks for the input, I'll have to look into these now, see about cost and availability in my area
Definitely a good list to look through though, appreciate your time buddy 👍


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Swindinian said:


> I would vote for Antaresia as well!
> 
> Some individuals can be a handful, some bitey, but more often curious, and confident nature; makes for an engaging pet snake.
> 
> ...


Thanks alot for the info, I've git a fair bit of searching to do I think 🤔


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Malum Argenteum said:


> You might consider one of the mountain kingsnake species. I breed knoblochi, and they're an absolute joy. Small (~2 ft), docile, and beautiful. Once they're used to FT rodents they're pretty reliable feeders. Grey banded kings are similar. Not sure how available these are in the UK, but worth seeking out.


They're a once in a blue moon thing where availability is concerned, except maybe from one of our very few reptile shows.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Dione's rat snake (_Elaphe dione_) would be my number one pick for small, active, curious and tame. Snakes n Adders has a nice one left (I got their other specimen last month). Absolutely my top choice.

Twin-Spotted rat snakes (_Elaphe bimaculata_) are good too - they are usually more colourful than most Dione's and even smaller but slightly more shy and secretive, but can also become very tame and trusting as they grow. There are a few currently available right now here.

Mountain king snakes (_Lampropeltis pyromelana_), Mexican king snakes (_Lampropeltis mexicana_) and grown on Grey-Banded king snakes (_Lampropeltis alterna_) are good choices as well. There are currently quite a few of these on sale at the moment across the UK, with Mountain kings being the most common but all three available at the moment.

Personally I would not recommend most milk snakes, I find they can often be shy, secretive and musk when handled. However grown on or adult specimens used to handling can be good.

Desert king snakes (_Lampropeltis splendida_) are another good choice - colourful and tend not to get as large as the other '_getula_' complex kings.

Rosy boas (_Lichanura trivirgata_) are great although usually quite hard to find. Chaz at Snakes n Adders has multiple pairs and several bloodlines worth of babies of at least two localities (Coastal and Mexican) at the moment although I think he said he is waiting a few months before selling to ensure the babies are all feeding.

Spotted and Children's pythons (_Antaresia spp._) are small and cute too but their temperament can be a mixed bag.

Garter snakes are great and can be very colourful. My personal favourites and most recommended would be Chequered garters (_Thamnophis marcianus_) as they eat more rodents - although I would still recommend a mixed diet containing fish and frog legs; I only feed a third to a half of the diet as rodents. They are extremely hardy and considerably calmer than a lot of other Garter and Ribbon snake species. These are currently available too.

There are some gorgeous flame _infernalis_ Garter snakes up at Snakes n Adders that are very reasonable in price (£69) and look beautiful. Was rather tempted to take home a trio myself.

Various _Natrix_ (Dice, _N. tessellata_, Viperine, _N. maura_, and Grass, _N. natrix_, snakes) are now commonly available as quality captive bred. They are exceptionally hardy snakes although personally I am not sure how I feel about keeping especially Dice and Viperine snakes without a semi-aquatic component to their enclosure which could be complex to set up. There are a couple of really nice Milos and Striped grass snakes about right now as well as Dice snakes.

Since you mention Corn snakes are 'big' for you, I won't mention a few others that get the same size or larger. But all the above are for sale now around the UK - although that is not always the case.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Thrasops said:


> Dione's rat snake (_Elaphe dione_) would be my number one pick for small, active, curious and tame. Snakes n Adders has a nice one left (I got their other specimen last month). Absolutely my top choice.
> 
> Twin-Spotted rat snakes (_Elaphe bimaculata_) are good too - they are usually more colourful than most Dione's and even smaller but slightly more shy and secretive, but can also become very tame and trusting as they grow. There are a few currently available right now here.
> 
> ...


Good post, Francis! Agreed that milks might musk & squirm, but my Nelsons never musked.


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## Pirate7 (Apr 7, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> Good post, Francis! Agreed that milks might musk & squirm, but my Nelsons never musked.


To be fair, i'd add _Natrix _to the mix of 'might' musk. They've got some good scent on them. Far worse than my Baron's or Hoggies.

I went on a rare reptile ramble with Sussex Amphibian and Reptile Group last weekend, the guide was studying the smooth snakes but we found some _N. hellvetica_ under the tins - the chap picked up the grass snake and it's the worse musk I have ever smelt. 😅


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## DanOfThe70s (9 mo ago)

Thrasops said:


> Dione's rat snake (_Elaphe dione_) would be my number one pick for small, active, curious and tame. Snakes n Adders has a nice one left (I got their other specimen last month). Absolutely my top choice.
> 
> Twin-Spotted rat snakes (_Elaphe bimaculata_) are good too - they are usually more colourful than most Dione's and even smaller but slightly more shy and secretive, but can also become very tame and trusting as they grow. There are a few currently available right now here.
> 
> ...


Amazing, thank you so much for taking the time to write all that out, it's very much appreciated, I'll be googling snakes n adders to see what they currently have in stock.
Once again though thanks very much!


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Pirate7 said:


> To be fair, i'd add _Natrix _to the mix of 'might' musk. They've got some good scent on them. Far worse than my Baron's or Hoggies.
> 
> I went on a rare reptile ramble with Sussex Amphibian and Reptile Group last weekend, the guide was studying the smooth snakes but we found some _N. hellvetica_ under the tins - the chap picked up the grass snake and it's the worse musk I have ever smelt. 😅


I got musked by a grass snake I picked up as a teen- I can only describe the smell as a mixture of rancid cheese & rotten fish!🤢🤮


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> I got musked by a grass snake I picked up as a teen- I can only describe the smell as a mixture of rancid cheese & rotten fish!🤢🤮


They do have a very memorable stench don't they! And it takes AGES to get rid of


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## Pirate7 (Apr 7, 2008)

wilkinss77 said:


> I got musked by a grass snake I picked up as a teen- I can only describe the smell as a mixture of rancid cheese & rotten fish!🤢🤮


It really does, it's the most vile smell, and then they decide to play dead. The drama, it's a great defence mechanism though. 



ian14 said:


> They do have a very memorable stench don't they! And it takes AGES to get rid of


Had to put my stuff in the wash 3-4 times before the smell went.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

I got slimed by my female Bairds last week when I cleaned her viv out... I was lucky in that it didn't get on my clothes.... Instead it ended up on the carpet..... Took two washes with the carpet cleaner, with the windows open for a couple of days before the smell had gone... guess that's one of the down sides to not handling the snake regularly.... 😉


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