# Wild pool frogs in the UK



## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm interested in wild pool frogs in the UK. What I'm wondering is, what is the status on introduced ones, i.e. Ones that people have just let go? I know that the ones from the reintroduction are really heavily protected but what are the laws regarding introduced specimens that were introduced by hobbyists? Not that I want to go and collect them, because I don't, but I find it interesting. Also, I would love to see photos of any if anybody has some. 

Stuart


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

The law only protects 'northern clade' pool frogs- those from Britain and Scandinavia. 

Apart from the Norfolk reintroduction, all the known introductions are of 'southern clade' animals from elsewhere in Europe, so anyone could legally collect them (with landowner's permission, as long as it didn't break any bylaws such as those protecting nature reserves etc).


In the early 90s, I caught a pool frog at their last native site in Norfolk- at the time, I caught it legally, but I broke the law when I released it again (as it was regarded as a non-native species at the time). 

Nowadays, I'd be breaking the law if I caught it, but not if I released it again...


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

That's very interesting. Is there an obvious physical difference between the northern and southern clade pool frogs? I read somewhere that the northern clade ones tend to be more dull, shades of brown and the southern clade ones were brighter greens, but I don't know the validity of this.

Stuart


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, in general, the northern clade animals are more likely to be brown, southern clade more likely to be green, though there are plenty of exceptions.

I've just looked up the legislation again, and I was wrong- all pool frogs were listed, not just the northern clade ones- and they're also a European Protected Species, so no, you can't legally collect them.


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

That's what I thought. A very interesting topic though.

Stuart


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## frogworlduk (Mar 27, 2009)

would that be the case if its a non native re-introduction? i.e if you took our great crested newt over to france and it was successful would it be illegal to take it then? hope that makes sense?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Stupot1610 said:


> That's very interesting. Is there an obvious physical difference between the northern and southern clade pool frogs? I read somewhere that the northern clade ones tend to be more dull, shades of brown and the southern clade ones were brighter greens, but I don't know the validity of this.
> 
> Stuart




Buddy,have a real dig here using the search function. Look for some posts by AlexM. It's way back he's is too clever for his own socks:2thumb:,but his posts might help you. That is in no way to demean anything already posted,I just recollect interesting ,but little time to dig. Try using latin names Stuey. Alex would always use these. 

yeah I know a bit vague..what can I say:blush:

good luck

Stu


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, I shall have a look. I saw a thread by him from a few years ago where he had been to collect some pool frogs. 
Just out of interest, what sort of protection, if any, does the edible frog have (Pelophylax kl. Esculentus) as it is a hybrid between the Pool and Marsh Frog?

Stuart


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

frogworlduk said:


> would that be the case if its a non native re-introduction?


Yes, the law applies to any animals of those species living wild. As the reintroduced pool frogs come from Sweden, they wouldn't be protected if that wasn't the case.



Stupot1610 said:


> Just out of interest, what sort of protection, if any, does the edible frog have (Pelophylax kl. Esculentus) as it is a hybrid between the Pool and Marsh Frog?


My guess would be that it's got no protection. Protection applies to 'Rana lessonae'- edible frogs are clearly not 'Rana lessonae'.

It's so unlikely that anyone would ever be prosecuted for disturbing/collecting/keeping edible frogs, that it will probably never be tested in court.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Its not one that I would like to test though as they can look very similar.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Slightly off-topic, but there used to be a very healthy (and *loud!*) breeding colony in the water around a garden centre on the Isle of Sheppy. I say 'used to be' as the garden centre introduced ornamental ducks to the water...


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thats a shame the Ducks were introduced to the pond. Off-topic again, but, I have a very healthy population of common frogs in my garden pond (over 200 breeding adults last year) but the ducks from the local duck pond seem to go on holiday in my pond every March-April/May, this year they brought their ducklings too! I mean, it was very cute to see the ducklings in the pond but they could have had the decency not to eat so many tadpoles and frogspawn! :lol2:

Stuart


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

The Isle of Sheppy frogs were most likely marsh frogs- there are apparently other sites on the Isle of Sheppy where they've been seen recently. Nearby Isle of Grain has had them for a long time too.


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## frogworlduk (Mar 27, 2009)

What the general view on reintroduced non Norfolk pool frogs then? I've found on a few of the sites that I work on that someone's released pool frogs to that their populations are very healthy and seem to grow each year.


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## Caleb (Oct 21, 2009)

Current opinion seems to be that common frog numbers decrease as marsh frog numbers increase, but I don't think anyone's found any effect on other wildlife. 

Marsh frogs can also live in places where common frogs have never done well (e.g. most of Romney Marsh).

As far as I know, no-one's investigated the effects of pool/edible frogs in the UK. I'd guess that they'd have less impact than marsh frogs, because they're a fair bit smaller.

As an aside, common frogs lived alongside pool frogs at their last site in Norfolk- and it was the pool frogs that died out.


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