# how venomous are monitors?



## Button12 (Nov 28, 2009)

this is probably a daft question but ive read and been told bosc monitors saliva is venomous. i know not majorly. from what i can understand its just enough to help subdue a mouse....but i just thaught id ask. i know it wont hurt me because its bitten me loads while ive been trying to tame it, im just worried about my lad if he gets hold of my keys and tries feeding it. any info on the venomous side of things is helpful. cheers.


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## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

Bosc monitors are not venomous. Just make sure to clean the bite afterwards with some antiseptic (detol etc) as bacteria in their mouths could transfer something nasty i suppose.


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## Button12 (Nov 28, 2009)

cheers. guess you cant believe everything you read in care sheets lol


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

I was under the impression that recent research had led investigators to think that all monitors were venomous. 4 species have been confirmed for sure. Bearded Dragons have also been confirmed as venomous in the same study.
I wouldn't worry though. I've been bitten by a big bosc and felt nothing, and the venom delivery system in the confirmed monitors is poorly developed. The venom just "flows" around the teeth of the lower jaw. Ergo they cannot dry bite, ergo i would have been envenomated. Like I say, I felt nothing. I know I'm bigger than your toddler, but still I wouldn't worry. I suspect with the volume kept in captivity, if the bite was medically significant you'd have heard by now.
As for bosc venom subduing mice, I've never seen a bosc need help subduing a mouse, from venom or otherwise.
To conclude, venomous, more than likely, dangerous, no.


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## Jczreptiles (Sep 1, 2009)

Monitors in general have a bacterial saliva, different to venom. A bacterial saliva is generaly very slow acting and can even take days to take effect, the Komodo dragon is very similar I believe despite some researchers saying they have a delivery system it is still disputed by many due to how slow it takes to act, on average 2-4 days I believe.


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## monkeymagic (Mar 26, 2008)

*monitors*

there is only one true venomous monitor and that is the komodo dragon (varanus komodensis) it has only recently been reasearched through mri (magnetic resonance imaging) that they have venom glads the venom works as an anticoagulant thinning the blood and not allowing the blood of the prey to clot then comes the loss of blood pressure and the onset of shock this comes from venom glands which realese the venom along the jaw line to be chewed into the victim by its dagger like teeth the kamodo inheirits its size and venom from the megalania a giant venomous monitor type lizard that roamed Australia 400,000 years ago growing to an amazing 23 feet in the venom of the kamodo some of the compounds that reduce blood pressure are just as potent as the inland taipan according to reasearch the komodo is recognise as the largest venomous animal in the world as for other monitors of course any reptile is going to carry bacteria in it saliva there are only two other venomous lizards one is the gila monster(heloderma suspectum) and the other the mexican beaded lizard (Heloderma horridum) 

hope this helps buddy :2thumb:


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

I think Dr Bryan Fry who found out that Kamodo Dragons were Venomous, But I haven't yet read the research to see if it found other monitors were. But I think its been presumed that they are.


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## monkeymagic (Mar 26, 2008)

*monitors*

i have read all the reasearch i could get my hands on and as far as them prusuming all varanids are venomous im not to sure about that i have been bitten by most monitors you can think of at one time or another over my years of keeping and have never had any adverse reaction to any bite or infection for that matter it goona be exciting to keep up with the research progress as they find out more there is sill tons of research that needs to be carried out on the komodo but knowledge is still pretty minimal on these amazing lizards since there discovery which from memory im pretty sure was 1910


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## DavidR (Mar 19, 2008)

It must be remembered that venomous does not mean dangerous by default. Fry's research shows than all iguanian lizards are ancestrally venomous, this does not mean that they pose any danger to humans. The most recent publication is a spotlight on the Komodo, demonstrating that venom is still actively used in predation by this species. The degree to which venom is used to subdue prey is still a very new area for research (helodermatids excluded).

David.


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## herplover (Sep 19, 2009)

there is a massive difference between venom and bacterior the komodo does have a small amount of venom combining that with big serated teeth and a huge amount of bacterior its mouth is not a place u would want to go near the venom thins the blood and basicly makes the animal bleed out,another lizard is a gilla monster so there is one venomous lizard anything that eats dead things in the wild is bound to have a hell of alot of bacterior in there saliva more so in the komodos because that is how they kill larger animals the wound goes septic and bleed constantly then with its super senses it smells out the prey it has biten n lunch is served but dnt wory about your bosc being venomous i have children aswell but there would b noway id let them near them unsupervised so my advice is keep your keys in your pocket and ur kids away when ur not there:smile:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

herplover said:


> there is a massive difference between venom and bacterior the komodo does have a small amount of venom combining that with big serated teeth and a huge amount of bacterior its mouth is not a place u would want to go near the venom thins the blood and basicly makes the animal bleed out,another lizard is a gilla monster so there is one venomous lizard anything that eats dead things in the wild is bound to have a hell of alot of bacterior in there saliva more so in the komodos because that is how they kill larger animals the wound goes septic and bleed constantly then with its super senses it smells out the prey it has biten n lunch is served but dnt wory about your bosc being venomous i have children aswell but there would b noway id let them near them unsupervised so my advice is keep your keys in your pocket and ur kids away when ur not there:smile:


The notion that Komodos use bacteria in prey acquisition has recently been debunked by research carried out by Dr Bryan Fry et al. If I find the full article I'll post a link here, but for now here's a summary from Dr Fry's website.
Komodo Dragon venom research


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

venom?

i just hate those stitches... and when they nail an artery... 

and those scars...:lol2:


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## herplover (Sep 19, 2009)

i hgavent had an atery biten yet bet it hurts like hell ive gt quite few monitors (nile monitor) being one of them so no doubt i will soon lol ohhh the joys of our weird but wonderfull hobby


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

You keeping Varanus niloticus?
Good luck with that. Having caught many wild one's for tagging and sampling purposes I do not envy you at all.


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## herplover (Sep 19, 2009)

yea my nile is not a pet though like a beardy or tegu lol i really enjoy watching behaviours eating growth rate just the usuall reaserching breeding as i may well start i would love to see them in there natural habitat i am planning a holiday o india or indonissia to go see eather varanus salvator or the mighty komodo (varanus komodoensis)


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## bigburms1983 (Dec 12, 2009)

*venom*

alright dude they are not venomous at all its more of a bacterial thing really just make sure you clean the bite out and keep ur keys out of reach:2thumb:


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## tokay (Mar 13, 2007)

I've been tagged by white throats , black throats niles and boscs before , and never had any adverse affects...but that dosnt mean there not venomous personally i wouldnt be surprised if most lizards were...


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## WW** (Jan 20, 2008)

All monitors have venom; there is no evidence whatsoever that bacteria play any role in their foraging, although I am sure you can get a nice wound infection from a bite. However, only a few have been shown to have (generally mild) effects on humans, and then only on rare occasions. Certainly, when you are standing there with shredded tendons and nerves dangling from your hand and blood spurting out rhythmically, it's not the venom you will be worried about.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

bigburms1983 said:


> alright dude they are not venomous at all its more of a bacterial thing really just make sure you clean the bite out and keep ur keys out of reach:2thumb:


Read the article I posted further up the page.


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## Nicofury (Sep 12, 2013)

hi friends , im from chile (sorry bad english) i have 2 sabana monitor and i 
and wanted to share my experience
I have been bitten several times in hand and always was a wound and blood.
but one day one of the lizards up my shoulder and neglect (a stupid time) this bit my lip but not for self-defense was that he thought it was something to eat, then Was about 3 minutes on my lip tightening ... when you remove it after 10 minutes I felt a sore tonsils and 30 min after intense muscle pain in the face, neck and chest felt a little nauseous and 4 hours later everything returned to normal. I was so stupid that I can say that if they are poisonous


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

I think the term 'venomous' needs some serious scientific clarification. If having toxins in the mouth means an animal is venomous then even us humans would be considered venomous. There's a lot of talk about monitors, natricines and other colubrids being venomous, and even talk of all reptiles being ancestrally venomous but that makes distinguishing true dangerous, venomous animals from harmless ones very difficult. In my (not scientific) opinion, an animal can only be considered truly venomous if it has venom potent enough to kill an appropriate prey item, venom glands, and a delivery mechanism.


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## DW2013 (Jul 19, 2013)

I wouldn't go so far as to call my Bosc 'venomous' but he can be _really_ sarcastic. He crosses a line sometimes, often when we have company.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ScottGB said:


> I think Dr Bryan Fry who found out that Kamodo Dragons were Venomous, But I haven't yet read the research to see if it found other monitors were. But I think its been presumed that they are.


ive read the published research paper on venom doc and it is true to an extent that most lizards contain venom within there mouths this is a relic in alot of lizards as the share a common ancestor with snakes seems like the monitor family are more potent than others but the volumes delivery system and toxicity are no where near that of say a boiga so there not classed as being medically significant........ mind u if a comodo was chewing on my leg 20 odd foot of angry lizard there venoms gonna be my last thought.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

this said i imagine the mechanical injuries on a mouse or rat from a full grown bosc will do more damage than any venom protein. It seems like either this is a relic from the ancestor they share with snakes or its used as juviniles and young to take down larger prey items (by this i mean subdue and stop it struggling not actually killing the prey item like snake venom would) i personally am looking into getting a ptyas but am having a nightmare sourcing them i contacted dr fry directly to see if he knew any breeders also my concerns over there vernom and in short i was told to worry more about there jaw power and teeth there venoms a relic and not medically significant to human but there teeth could easily rip through a tendon etc


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## Herpalist (Jun 17, 2009)

I do know a very experienced reptile chap in Belfast that got tagged on the thumb by a Timor Monitor when handling it in a reptile shop in Dublin. He spent 8 days in Queens Hospital Belfast.

He was really knocked for 6 following the bite. A venom or bacterial infection I don't know but as I say whatever it was knocked the life right out of him for 8 odd days. 

Moral is "don't let any varanid tag you"


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

WW** said:


> All monitors have venom; there is no evidence whatsoever that bacteria play any role in their foraging, although I am sure you can get a nice wound infection from a bite. However, only a few have been shown to have (generally mild) effects on humans, and then only on rare occasions. Certainly, when you are standing there with shredded tendons and nerves dangling from your hand and blood spurting out rhythmically, it's not the venom you will be worried about.


totally agree with this its been proven by dry fry than alot of the monitor family carry venom but its so far removen from what we think of when we think venomous its and archive from there ancestoral history and isnt medicall significant i remember someone mentioning a while back that bearies have the same toxins as some rattlers but you would have to let it chew on u for like 2-3 hours before any medical effect could be noticable. so in short yh they are but id be more worried about a wasp or bee sting. Also the bacterial thing the human mouth carries far more bacteria than most reptiles there immune systems pretty tough compared to ours


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