# Best way for Springtail cultures??



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Hello every one, i though i would do a thread on how to culturing springtails and what works best for you?
i have tryed a couple of ways both soil based myself, air tight and just a normal push on lid, im trying to get rammed cultures, i have 4 air tight containers 10L, and 4 with push on lids 3L which i have found works best for me. kept humid, and fed once a week but containers opened every 2 days. The food i give them is a mix to powder blend of... fish flakes, carp pellets, potato flakes, now and then sliced mushrooms, and cuttle fish. 
again this is a thread to see what works best for you, NOT the best way as every one is to there own.
half mine (the 3L tubs are kept at 75oF and 10L at room temp which im un sure and will check)
ill upload pictures when i can get time to show mine, i have seen rammed cultures which mine are not as good as, which is the reason im doing this thread) 
thanks in advance for every ones input, any tips would be greatful!! 
Also i know there are 2 true springtail types, not 100% sure but i think mine are tropical. 

:no1:


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Talk to Stu (Soundstounite) on here, and also check out the Feeder section further down the site page. I have them in all my tanks, but this is more by luck than design- I don't deliberately culture them, whereas serious dart-keepers do.


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

ADR and Mike seem to do well with their springtail cultures.


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

fatlad69 said:


> ADR and Mike seem to do well with their springtail cultures.


Oh cheers Adam :whistling2:

It`s quite simple really.
Feed em and breed em :2thumb:
Eco earth, orchid bark or charcoal.
It`s your choice.
Feed them with yeast and keep them miles away from fly cultures to keep mites away from them.

Mike


----------



## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

I have 3 large cultures with mixed tropical and European species.
Substrate is coir, horticultural balls, leaf litter and orchid bark mix. 
About half inch of water in the bottom.
I feed with a mix of yeast and porridge. 
They are kept in a warm room on a high shelf and breed very well.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SnakeBreeder said:


> *I have 3 large cultures with mixed tropical and European species.*
> Substrate is coir, horticultural balls, leaf litter and orchid bark mix.
> About half inch of water in the bottom.
> I feed with a mix of yeast and porridge.
> They are kept in a warm room on a high shelf and breed very well.


That's really interesting- conventional wisdom says culture each species seperately, to avoid predation or over-competition- but it obviously works for you. I have both native and tropical species of springtails and woodlice in practically all of my vivs, and they do fine, but I'd pretty much assumed this was down to a wider, more varied habitat and lower population. I'm mildly fascinated by the mixed-up ecosystem this makes, though.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> ADR and Mike seem to do well with their springtail cultures.



I hope we all (dart guys) are doing well with 'em Adam : victory:Couple in the fact you've done this a while so tell me what ya know dude:Na_Na_Na_Na:, 



Ron, Davey has seen the earlier stages of our charcoal springtail cultures,I think some are closing on a year old now,this technique with my present knowledge would be my personal recommendation for anyone.


To possibly add to your thread Dave I believe we are culturing 3 geni Folsumia ( temperate) Seira and Sinella (tropical). The Sinella are smaller and very prolific,but we do great with the others as well. I would say the sinella like it driest then the Seira and folsumia like it wet. We feed just yeast and a CA supply in the form of cuttlefish bone. For me the secrets of high production is absolute diligence in regular water change outs and a regular misting which I think plays hell with any mites that get into a culture,plus mite paper(naturally:whistling2.

I also play around with some smaller cultures peat for folsumia co co fibre for sinella,I can't get anywhere near the same productivity from a Seira culture on subs in small cultures so don't bother with them now. I need alot of springs all the time so for us the big culture is simply more effective all ways. 

Charcoal take time to set up with all the washing and boiling, but once going they DO for me. I've tried a multitude of food stuffs for springs,but the simple approach of yeast is just nailing it,time after time,I feel little need now to quest for better,although I probably will because that's me:bash:. 

Oh Davey before I run off check out me mate Glenn from canuck land he of the name frogfreak,he has posted here,I have more than a hunch we have much to learn from his methods,some of which I still want to delve into
best
Stu


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have used charcoal and an ecco earth, orchid bark mix. Both do well but my preference like Stu and Mike is also for charcoal as if find them easier to harvest.

By the way my first post was meant to read Ade and Mike. Ruddy predictive text!!!!:lol2:


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Yeah I have got the active yeast the Allison one, stu what do you do just whip it with little rain water or bottled water to a paste and do little drabs about the culture? :2thumb: thanks every one


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

davidwilliams said:


> Yeah I have got the active yeast the Allison one, stu what do you do just whip it with little rain water or bottled water to a paste and do little drabs about the culture? :2thumb: thanks every one


cheers Adam ,do you use yeast as well? 
Davey mist the charcoal so it is wet ,then pour little piles on the big bits of charcoal that you have put up top,these are then used to feed out. The yeast will stick to the charcoal stopping it going everywhere. Then mist the little piles to moisten them up and make the food soluble for the springtails. you'll probably find it easiest to pour from a nearly empty yeast container,well more accurate anyway. Oh mate date the culture when you start and also write when you change the water on this lable,it's easy to loose track of when you do these things,it's definitely worth dating each culture/waterchange,just makes life easy.

Mike are you still using the allinson's yeast as well?
best

Stu


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I do Stu :2thumb:


Mike


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> cheers Adam ,do you use yeast as well?
> Davey mist the charcoal so it is wet ,then pour little piles on the big bits of charcoal that you have put up top,these are then used to feed out. The yeast will stick to the charcoal stopping it going everywhere. Then mist the little piles to moisten them up and make the food soluble for the springtails. you'll probably find it easiest to pour from a nearly empty yeast container,well more accurate anyway. Oh mate date the culture when you start and also write when you change the water on this lable,it's easy to loose track of when you do these things,it's definitely worth dating each culture/waterchange,just makes life easy.
> 
> Mike are you still using the allinson's yeast as well?
> ...


No I have not tried the yeast but may give it a go. I tend to feed them with fish food or springtail food from Dartfrog but I think the yeast may be a more cost effective method.

Adam


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Right stu, couple of questions how do I do a water change with out tipping every thing out? Do I need to do a drainage hole at the bottom of the culture? Where do you get plain charcoal from? Ill have to look around but I'm guessing most places have easy light charcoal that's had chemicals on so guessing that's a big no no, but in sure as I have not looked around yet. Cheers mate


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

davidwilliams said:


> Right stu, couple of questions how do I do a water change with out tipping every thing out? Do I need to do a drainage hole at the bottom of the culture? Where do you get plain charcoal from? Ill have to look around but I'm guessing most places have easy light charcoal that's had chemicals on so guessing that's a big no no, but in sure as I have not looked around yet. Cheers mate


'Turkey Baster!'


----------



## grizzlymonkyboy (Jan 15, 2011)

fatlad69 said:


> 'Turkey Baster!'


these things are becoming hard to find.... i needed one last weekend as my old one went missing (young lad decided to play out in the garden with it:devil i looked at tesco no luck was told they have stoped stocking them as they have these silicone brushes now....

tryied b&m no luck there and also went to dunhum mills not 1 baster in sight 

anyway i found the last one in milton keynes in the local morrisons but it seems now a days these handy multi functional devices are disapearing


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Turkey basters all the way :lol2:.
I got mine at Tesco but if your stuck Marc at Dartfrog sells them.

Mike


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Got the charcoal and all set up hopefully they hit off, any one record temperature that's works well? I'm thinking 70/75F I got few turkey basters so all good there. Added yeast. Stu do you feed once a week or twice? Cheers


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

There is only ONE WAY to feed them.
As and when required.

Mike


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

:lol2: Adam went there:gasp: and he's bang on so is Mike:2thumb: the reason for pointing you at Glenn's thread and method was the flood and harvest method and his genius use of a tap to remove excess water.Oh Davey a bloody big lump of charcoal in a corner(on set up):whistling2: pull that and water change is a doddle 
Dave they need feeding as they need it,eg just as they have eaten the last of the grub ,or you'll get problems with mould.
Davey you can buy the non lighting charcoal from morrisons(petrol ),there are other sources,but you need just plain hardwood charcoal avoid the easy lighting like the plague, it is abit early for barbeque so supplies will be short at the mo.

If you want to go there the best and most eco freindly is to make your own using native hardwoods,ie oak ash hazel,you need a very slow burn plus air exclusion...get a good fire going with these woods and then heap turf on top to exclude air...it is an art form ,but definitely doable oak has a reluctance to burn(actually untreated, it beats uk house building fire regs) but with the RIGHT fire it is an asset for our needs here

Dane search specialist cookery shops maybe amazon?

Oh, Adam the reason for yeast is not all about maximum production,well it is...but it isn't:lol2:: anything that contains grain has the capacity to attract grain mites,so although one might get good short term results the mites if they get to a culture might knock the long term figure for six,ie if Stu needs 2,376 and 3/4:blush: springs per week tis no good having 5000 one week and 300 the next yeast seems to !!!!!!!! give the most stable figures on a week in week out basis over alot of cultures in the long term Plus no risks of OD on tocoperols. Buddy I'll repeat you have been doing this longer than any of us I don't feel anything other than being a beginner compared to you,Ive just based my methods on what knowledge I can squeeze out of folks that breed hundreds of frogs and applied this to my/our scaled down version this method works week in week out. It is NOT the only method,but using it my 3 good!!! starter cultures are capable now of feeding huge numbers of darts,even darts like tincs and auratus that need proper quantity is effortless,ha ok effortless with abit of good ol' head down grafting that is. 
Simply put it works 
One might just up the anti with nutritional yeast,as a foot note,the guy that told me that has never BS me i utterly trust him
good luck

Stu


----------



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Check out this video about springtails.

The Springtail - YouTube!


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Check out this video about springtails.
> 
> The Springtail - YouTube!


Hey Glenn ya good buddy,ha Sir David's work has to be purchased in it's entirety,it's the law here,so we've seen said video:Na_Na_Na_Na:. Until i watched life in the undergrowth I had no issues with feeding springtails,but it has to be said they do have cute faces don't they :blush::lol2:

Stu


----------



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> Hey Glenn ya good buddy,ha Sir David's work has to be purchased in it's entirety,it's the law here,so we've seen said video:Na_Na_Na_Na:. Until i watched life in the undergrowth I had no issues with feeding springtails,but it has to be said they do have cute faces don't they :blush::lol2:
> 
> Stu


:lol2: Good one, Stu!!

It was the chemical release that interested me. I'm thinking that water changes are needed on a regular basis or this will "build up" in our cultures. Possible culture crashing because of it?? The greys emit a lot of it!! You can see it on the surface after flooding it. 

It's very sticky, but doesn't taste half bad! :gasp: :lol2:


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> :lol2: Good one, Stu!!
> 
> It was the chemical release that interested me. I'm thinking that water changes are needed on a regular basis or this will "build up" in our cultures. Possible culture crashing because of it?? The greys emit a lot of it!! You can see it on the surface after flooding it.
> 
> It's very sticky, but doesn't taste half bad! :gasp: :lol2:


I can Imagine,that would go down well as a stock with some nice moose tails Glenn.....:mf_dribble:
Glenn, Ed linked me a paper somewhere in the depths of dendroboard,about chemicals being released,with Sinella or Seira,I forget which but pretty sure Seira,but apparently it's not known whether folsumia do this,I've been told they don't. Anyway I agree totally I think the water changes are very important I think it is why I do best with charcoal this regular flushing,well better than any subs. It works better for me than constantly setting up and splitting substrate cultures. Although backing the above a temperate culture on peat from a mate here seems to go a hell of a time before production slows. 
Glenn i think there is another maybe more obvious reason why the cultures that are flushed seem to have a longer shelf life,simply put all the springtail waste gets washed away too. This must have some effect on the little guys as all that yeast they munch must go somewhere and build up over time

Stu


----------



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> I can Imagine,that would go down well as a stock with some nice moose tails Glenn.....:mf_dribble:
> Glenn, Ed linked me a paper somewhere in the depths of dendroboard,about chemicals being released,with Sinella or Seira,I forget which but pretty sure Seira,but apparently it's not known whether folsumia do this,I've been told they don't. Anyway I agree totally I think the water changes are very important I think it is why I do best with charcoal this regular flushing,well better than any subs. It works better for me than constantly setting up and splitting substrate cultures. Although backing the above a temperate culture on peat from a mate here seems to go a hell of a time before production slows.
> Glenn i think there is another *maybe more obvious reason why the cultures that are flushed seem to have a longer shelf life,simply put all the springtail waste gets washed away too*. This must have some effect on the little guys as all that yeast they munch must go somewhere and build up over time
> 
> Stu


I agree with that as well. Have you tried them on coco husk yet? I swear by it and it has out preformed my cultures on both leca/hydroton and charcoal. I will be splitting them very shortly and will have 300 in stock. lol

Nutritional yeast is still my favorite feed. I'm trying some Repashy Bug burger shortly too see how they do on that.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Check out this video about springtails.
> 
> The Springtail - YouTube!





soundstounite said:


> Hey Glenn ya good buddy,ha Sir David's work has to be purchased in it's entirety,it's the law here,so we've seen said video:Na_Na_Na_Na:. Until i watched life in the undergrowth I had no issues with feeding springtails,but it has to be said they do have cute faces don't they :blush::lol2:
> 
> Stu


They *are* unfeasibly cute! :lol2:


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> I agree with that as well. Have you tried them on coco husk yet? I swear by it and it has out preformed my cultures on both leca/hydroton and charcoal. I will be splitting them very shortly and will have 300 in stock. lol
> 
> Nutritional yeast is still my favorite feed. I'm trying some Repashy Bug burger shortly too see how they do on that.


No not yet buddy,I still have it on my to do list:bash: 
Glenn basically I haven't changed because our results are so good,I'm pretty damn happy with the springtail side of things at this time,that old adage of it ain't broke don't fix it, I suppose. 
300 Hmm never been quite sure about which one of us is madder mate:whistling2:


Ron I feel bad each time one gets stuck to a tongue...honest:mf_dribble:

Stu


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Well I have just used a new method to add springtails to my viv from an Ecco earth based culture. I took the lid off and blew them in, works a treat. :lol2:


----------



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

soundstounite said:


> No not yet buddy,I still have it on my to do list:bash:
> Glenn basically I haven't changed because our results are so good,I'm pretty damn happy with the springtail side of things at this time,that old adage of it ain't broke don't fix it, I suppose.
> 300 Hmm never been quite sure about which one of us is madder mate:whistling2:
> 
> ...


It's amazing how looooonnnnngggggg the to do lists are, isn't it? Never ends. lol

I agree though, if it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

i have 8 cultures going... would any one recommend tapping some of each into each cultures other to mix cultures??? or just feed out of cultures? would mixing them help boost or crash a culture is the question?????

:2thumb:


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

davidwilliams said:


> i have 8 cultures going...


 
Only 8 ? :gasp:


Mike


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

yes they are 4 x 3L and 4x 10L not the small tubs




frogman955 said:


> Only 8 ? :gasp:
> 
> 
> Mike


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

davidwilliams said:


> yes they are 4 x 3L and 4x 10L not the small tubs


To be fair Davey Mike climbs into his cultures with a ladder,has been known to swim back and forth with a bucket of yeast as his morning excerise,they are hard up there in the north mate: victory:.

Davey, I can't really answer your question about mixing,other than to say I think both from experience and reading that some species will out compete others.I have a couple of cultures that have changed from one species to another,on both occasions the siera lost out.Don't ask how it happened I genuinely don't know,maybe contaminated ,by the other species at set up.That said try everything mate see what works for you . I think all methods are there to be tried,if they work for the individual that is the way to go:2thumb:. Did someone mention coco chunks:gasp:

Hmm Glenn...... the to do list:whistling2:

Stu


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

soundstounite said:


> To be fair Davey Mike climbs into his cultures with a ladder,has been known to swim back and forth with a bucket of yeast as his morning excerise,they are hard up there in the north mate: victory:.
> 
> Stu


 
Haha I like it Stu.

Mike


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Coming for a swim Stu ? :lol2:


Mike


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Coming for a swim Stu ? :lol2:
> 
> 
> Mike
> ...


Mike, you really should get that treated!:lol2:


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Too soft Mike:2thumb:
cheers lads it's good coming home and knowing there is a smile to be had :notworthy:

Stu


----------



## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Ron Magpie said:


> That's really interesting- conventional wisdom says culture each species seperately, to avoid predation or over-competition- but it obviously works for you. .


I just checked my culture and the springtails are fine but my newly hatched woodlice all seem to be missing.:gasp:
I've taken the adult woodlice out and set them in a culture box by themselves.
I have 2 other species of wodlice on order for arrival tomorrow, so that will be 3 species.
Obviously now Ill be keeping each type seperatly and using the excess to top up my bio-substrates.


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Lol right ok, I thought they was enought. Ill get making some more then! Cheers for picture mike, my charcoal bucket I set up seems to have crashed, checked it and the charcoal at bottom has turned to mush :0/ the water was only about inch maybe bit more, it was not the instant light stuff, but all pieces was 100% the same so must be made. so I guessing it was not real charcoal now, I got it from tesco to but look what happened with there beef!! The bricks crumbling like that is not right is it? Ill look for more and this time ill open a bag make sure it is real charcoal! Cheers Dave


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

A LOT of the charcoal been sold in the UK now is bricquetttes. Pretty sure these guys are using lumpwood, which I can't get in my area at all any more.

Might be worth trying Glenn's advice and getting some coconut husk chips, I might try it too. I'm the black sheep in that apart from 1 big culture the rest of my cultures are all bought ones. lol My home made one is pure sphagnum peat.

Ade


----------



## davidwilliams (Oct 21, 2010)

Ok sound mate, it's worth a go ill get ordering some husk. :2thumb:


----------



## frogfreak (Jul 28, 2012)

Hi Guys, 

If you want to try the husk, make sure to boil it until it's saturated. Don't want any hitch hikers! ie: nematodes


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ade yes hardwood lumpwood charcoal

Davey,i have at least a couple of cultures dating back to last feb,no deteriation in the bottom charcoal that is oft submerged and has been for 12 months.
Glenn yeah we sterilise all things associated with cultures,as we set up and boil all charcoal then leave it to cool in the water it boiled in,this keeps the charcoal holding alot of water.
Dave these big cultures take time to set up,it is really worth putting in the effort and being diligent about each step,not only for the nemerteans but also to prevent any mites getting in there.Buddy it's alot of faffing about a new big charcoal culture,but get it right and it will run for ages and produce massive quantities. The one place I fall down is all those cultures under my racks that I can't sit on mite paper,if we had more space then racks like Glenn's that totally prevent mites is where we would go.


Snake breeder,we culture 3 types of woodlice,our dwarf white are invasive and have got into the other two cultures in some cases. I think over time they will out compete the other 2 species a little fast tropical species and giant orange. It is documented that the adults of some species will predate the eggs/young of other species being carried by the female That said a side benefit is those other 2 species came here with some form of mite. Damned if i could set up a new culture without getting mites in there,that is until dwarf white got in there,bingo DW must predate the mites,so i'm working towards building the numbers of clean cultures from the DW contaminated ones.

You should be able to get springtails and DW woods living alongside each other though,as I set all our dart rearing tubs like this using sterilised leaf litter and a drainage layer of coarse orchid bark. I have no problems until frogs go in there and mess it all up:gasp::lol2: But not so effective for springtails as charcoal.For woodlice a different story we culture all woods on leaflitter(oak ash mix) and rotten wood(plum).Detail and pics on my room thread,but you'll have to find em:lol2:

Stu


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

soundstounite said:


> Ade yes hardwood lumpwood charcoal
> 
> Davey,i have at least a couple of cultures dating back to last feb,no deteriation in the bottom charcoal that is oft submerged and has been for 12 months.
> Glenn yeah we sterilise all things associated with cultures,as we set up and boil all charcoal then leave it to cool in the water it boiled in,this keeps the charcoal holding alot of water.
> ...


Take a pocketful of crumbs to drop, to find your way out- or maybe a* long* spool of thread...
:lol2:


----------

