# breeding b smithi



## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

From what I understand I should be able to breed my b smithi now ish!
My female is 4 years old and moulted last week and the male has just tonight moulted into a m/m .
the male and female are about the same size though! would this be a problem..? 

The female is not as big as she might of been if I fed her more but the first year she was a little hit and miss with feeding.

here is a photo of the two together for size comparison.

can anyone offer me any advice on the breeding or if I should wait a bit longer until the female is bigger and how long will the male live for now he is a mature adult.

female on left male on right.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

General rule is the females carapace needs to be the same size or bigger than the males.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Is the male mature?


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Is the male mature?



Did you even read the thread ? or just follow Selina in ?


You might as well try them once the male's started sperm webbing . Get her fed up .


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

The males carapace does look slightly larger in the photo but they look more the same to the eye. yes the male is now mature.: victory:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Mutley.100 said:


> Did you even read the thread ? or just follow Selina in ?
> 
> 
> You might as well try them once the male's started sperm webbing . Get her fed up .



I quickly scanned it! I'm not with it tonight :'(


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ladyboid said:


> The males carapace does look slightly larger in the photo but they look more the same to the eye. yes the male is now mature.: victory:


Can give it a go if you want.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

He can't just "give it a go if he wants". If the female isn't ready she will just attack him and if he dies it's a waste of a good male.


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> He can't just "give it a go if he wants". If the female isn't ready she will just attack him and if he dies it's a waste of a good male.



She can , it's her T's . There's a chance intro'ing any male . better to try to use him than let him go to waste .


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> He can't just "give it a go if he wants". If the female isn't ready she will just attack him and if he dies it's a waste of a good male.


the risk is there with every female


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Well then it's wasting a male. It might be owned by them yes, but by the looks of things they have these two with the idea of breeding them. Ok fair enough but personally if it was mine and the female wasn't ready i'd find someone close who had a ready female and do a 50/50


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

so "if " i was to give it a go .. what would I look out for and how long until he produces sperm webs .. or how long until he dies


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

If the female isnt ready I would do a 50/50 with someone else..

I am just looking at options at the moment .: victory:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

ladyboid said:


> so "if " i was to give it a go .. what would I look out for and how long until he produces sperm webs .. or how long until he dies


He will produce a sperm web when hes ready. B.smithis can last quite a while after maturing so he could last another couple of years.

Just watch her like you would with any mating. If she is receptive then they will mate. If shes not ready she will either ignore him or chase him off.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Fact is if you're not sure about whether the female is ready then rather than take the risk, i would loan him out to someone. Ideally someone who lives close to you due to the weather we're having at the moment.

B. smithis are fairly common within the hobby and still make a decent bit of cash, but males don't seem to pop up to often. I was lucky enough to have one loaned to me a while back, but sadly for that after a great pairing the female decided she was going to have an unexpected moult... Time she was ready again the male was on his last legs poor thing! I really don't think you'll have trouble finding someone close by with a female.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

I will keep growing the female then and see when the males starts to produce sperm webs and take it from there! 

If he is ready sooner rather than later I will definatly consider doing a 50/50 ...

: victory:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I dont know if i personnally would try it but i do know people that have successfully bred sub adult females. I know my B.smithi female at 4.5 inches would drum and appear interested in any males near by. She went to a breeding home as ready to breed. Do you have the females last moult to hand??? How formed the spermithicae is will also give you an idea of whether she is ready or not.

At the end of the day you have the male there so its likely you wont lose anything by trying.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

the last moult is at school (kids took it in to show the teachers)
she looked very female to my untrained eye. 
I will see if I can get it back and get some pics of it! : victory:


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

I thought that females could breed when sub adult?
I thought it was just a size issue and the roles being reversed, as in her getting munched.
If she has just shed, and he has loaded up introduce him into her setup and she how she responds.
Good luck.


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## DJ Gee (Nov 25, 2007)

selina20 said:


> I dont know if i personnally would try it but i do know people that have successfully bred sub adult females.


My B. Albopilosum was sub-adult when I paired her with my male and she has made a sac, I agree with everyone saying the females carapace must be the same or grater in size. 
If the female wants to breed she will more than likely start tapping in correspondence to the male.

Edit: my female is 4.5" in leg span and I'm unsure if the sac is fertile or not.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

It's not very likely your male's fertility will still be 100% by the time your female moults again. I've got 2 Megaphobema robustum males here who have been mature for 8 months, they are not very enthusiastic with the female and only one of them has produced a sperm web that I have noticed. She is willing to mate as far as holding herself up for them to get underneath her but they're just not really interested. IMO they are past their best even though they might live for another year or so.

Your male should make his first sperm web within a few weeks. Feed the female up in the meantime and then cautiously introduce him to her tank. Have a plastic ruler or piece of card handy to put between them. If the female responds to the male's drumming by tapping back or turning towards him, then she's willing to mate and you can let them get on with it. If she persistently ignores him or rushes out fangs bared, take him out.

Either way, you could still send him out on loan or even sell him, personally if I had a MM and female of approximate breeding size I would always try the male myself before sending him through the post or letting somebody else use him. 

I've personally had poor results with loaned males, more often than not I am told the male has mysteriously died or the female has moulted out. For this reason I now sell my males rather than lending them, unless I have heard good feedback about the person it's going to.


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## oliwilliams (Feb 23, 2010)

your male is at his best within the first 3 months after molt with fertility dropping after that , the female will also need to mating within about 3 months of a molt too to give the best chance that she does not molt out before laying. On the subject of sub adult breeding i dont particularly agree with it as reduces the chances of success. I mated mine as adults within 2 weeks of him and 4 weeks of her maturing before he went to stud. If in doubt send him out


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Just to bump this a bit as I have a new info..

As to date I have not introduced them but last night I noticed the male drumming to the female and the female responding to him.

I have not done anything about it but wow! I love seeing the interaction between them from their different enclosures.


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

ladyboid said:


> Just to bump this a bit as I have a new info..
> 
> As to date I have not introduced them but last night I noticed the male drumming to the female and the female responding to him.
> 
> I have not done anything about it but wow! I love seeing the interaction between them from there different enclosures.


Well as long as there are signs that the male had made a sperm web or two (usually they take them down after they charge there palps, so there will be a bit of web on the substrate or in a corner) and you've already witnessed them interacting with each other so there is no reason not to try pairing them.

Couple of tips if you decide to have a go is firstly make sure the female is well fed, maybe give her a couple of crickets the day before you attempt the pairing. You're also better off waiting till evening time, usually you will get better results in the dark or maybe in a room with poor lighting. Make sure to have something to hand to split them up if things go wrong (maybe a piece of cardboard or something along those lines) and last but not least patience, sometimes it can take hours for them pair up.

Goodluck and keep us posted!!!

: victory:


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

I did notice more webbing in the corner of his tank the other day but when I looked today it was nearly all gone.: victory:

I will try and see what happens and keep the thred updated.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Good luck with them


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

I have put them together.

With the drumming they found each other but now the male is walking away and the female following.. every time he takes a few steps she takes a few, everytime he stops she stops.. is this normal?


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

ladyboid said:


> I have put them together.
> 
> With the drumming they found each other but now the male is walking away and the female following.. every time he takes a few steps she takes a few, everytime he stops she stops.. is this normal?


Yeah, that's what I meant by needing patience haha

If you just bare with it I'm sure soon enough he'll hook her up, although I wouldn't keep trying longer than an hour or so personally, you can always try again another day


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Three evenings on the trot I have tried with no results ( unless they did it whilst I wasnt watching.)

I will give it a few days of trying to get them to feed (although they dont seem that bothered with food the last week or two) and maybe try again.

Here is about as close as I see them get to each other (apart from when they touched each others toes and scared themselfs.)


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## Paul c 1 (Sep 30, 2009)

ladyboid said:


> Three evenings on the trot I have tried with no results ( unless they did it whilst I wasnt watching.)
> 
> I will give it a few days of trying to get them to feed (although they dont seem that bothered with food the last week or two) and maybe try again.
> 
> ...


 
If they showed little interest in each other I would recommend just trying them again in the next couple of days, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't get a pairing out of them as they are both still very early in their molt cycles..... just keep trying I recently experienced the same thing when I was trying to breed Aphonopelma hentzi, they just were not in the slightest bit interested on the first couple of instances, however after numerous attempts they finally mated!

-P


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

thanks Paul.
I tried them again this evening and went back a few times to see what was going on but nothing! about a hour or so later (I had fallen asleep) I quickly went back and found they must of interacted because the male has some small wounds on his rump and there is tiny bits in the clear tub of hair clumps (I am guessing from his rump) so It looks like she has had a go at him.

would this be due to the mating taken place ? or the fact she just doesnt want to mate/not ready?

I really wish I had sat and watched so I know what went on..

If they had mated would the female show any signs at this stage that a mating has taken place ( silly question I am sure but worth asking )


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

any more advice on the above?:whistling2::flrt:


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

after chatting to a good friend of mine this evening I found out I might of missed the mating.
The female has been more than well behaved with him and the marks on his rump are where he has flicked lots (just never seen it that bad before)

here is a photo of the female taken tonight.
if she is gravid she could be a couple of weeks gone now.

I guess only time will tell with her.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

She looks nice and plump, good luck!


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Thank you.. I thought she looked a bit plump even though she has not eaten for a good few weeks...
not sure why she has gone off her food.. I have offered her all sorts.
do they go off food when breeding?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

There's no way you'll see any signs of a successful mating in that short space of time. You should expect to have to wait months not weeks.
Your female looks immature to me, she's neither big or stout enough, so at best she's sub-adult. At 4 years old I'd suggest she needs another year, possibly more.
You need to get a pic of the moult, or observe it yourself. You're looking for sclerotised spermatheca - hardened and darkened - to identify a mature female which is far more accurate than measuring carapace size.
It may be the case that your female is gravid as a sub-adult, its possible but its not the best approach. Sub-adult females are reported to produce inferior and lower numbered eggs, plus they're also reported to reduce their lifespan.

If we consider that your female has been mated then time will tell if you see a result.
I'd now, either seek an adult female - Michael Scheller has some for sale at SEAS at the end of the month - or advertise him for 50/50 deals/sell him.

Good luck


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Thank you for your input on this.

I dont have a photo of her last moult unfortuanlty .I will have to date her properly... she might even be a 05 not 06, even so I know she is a bit small to be full grown adult.

I have never bred spiders before so I was just going with the flow really with this. It just happend that both of these which I own shed a couple weeks apart and with the weather being cold I didnt really want to post the male out, and with the female responding to him it just seemed the thing to do.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Good luck hun. At the end of the day you gave it a go so time will tell and hopefully you will get babies. Will be a while before you see whether she has been successful


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> ... just seemed the thing to do.


certainly worth a try. I'd consider 4 months to be an good guide for producing a sac. Feed her up and keep temps slightly above 75F.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

selina20 said:


> Good luck hun. At the end of the day you gave it a go so time will tell and hopefully you will get babies. Will be a while before you see whether she has been successful


thank you : victory:



Poxicator said:


> certainly worth a try. I'd consider 4 months to be an good guide for producing a sac. Feed her up and keep temps slightly above 75F.


I will try.. I just cant seem to get her to take any food at the moment :gasp:
temps in the room they are kept in are 75-80 (reptiles room)


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