# And so it begins...



## DiegotheDestroyer (Sep 16, 2008)

My first foray into the dangerous and exciting world of DWA!

I've always wanted to own a King Cobra, and I'm putting some serious thought into it now with a view to keeping one in the future (the far future, the very far future...)

Anyway, my first question is thus: What do you do when it comes to cleaning time for venomous snakes? Can you just get them out with a hook?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Depends on the spicies of snake and what you are doing
with my rattlers for instance if they are not in the hide, once you open the door they proberbly soon will be or you can coax them into the hide with a hook. Then i cover the opening to the hide with a piece of perspex i have attached to a stick then you can easily spot clean the rest of the tank.
With my cobras hook and tail them out of the viv and into a big black bin with a locking lid, then clean as normal.
with the arborial vipers i have another little tool which is a clear perspex screen on a stick again and one this is placed infront of the snake and the cage floor can be spot cleaned as they will normally just sit there and arnt to botherd about your hand being in there, or if they are a bit more active and inquisitive ill take them out completely.

When thouroughly cleaning out vivariums and changing substrates etc i will completely remove them and place them either in the black bin or a RUB.

This is just the way i do it but there are other ways, i just find it less stressfull on the snake if you can leave them in situ and work SAFELY around them so to speak.

some people use catch/trap boxes for elapids where they have a box that they coax the snake into and they can shut a door and trap them inside and then they can safely remove them or work around the cage, but i have found that they will sit in the box almost permenantly, and elapids are dirty little beggers and will happily crap in the box so you end up having to get the bloody things out and clean the box anyway


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

DiegotheDestroyer said:


> ... What do you do when it comes to cleaning time for venomous snakes? Can you just get them out with a hook?


Tail and hook so you can safely move the chap into a suitable plastic container or bin.


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## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

You've been given some very good advice.
One of the ways I learnt how to safely work with venomous, feeding with forceps, removing snakes with hooks and placing into safety boxes in order to clean enclosures and change water bowls ect was to watch videos of keepers doing these jobs on Youtube online.
"Viperkeeper" has some very informative ones.


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## DiegotheDestroyer (Sep 16, 2008)

I thought it would probably be along those lines. I guess when you're hooking something it would be common sense to have a hook that will be long enough to avoid getting a strike

Are venomous snakes more aggressive than non-venomous species? I first thought that they'd be more bite happy, but I figure that reptiles seem to be all about conservation, and a bite would be like wasting venom...


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

I must say that king cobras have to be one of the smartest looking snakes out there and i think they aren't that agressive if i recall from information i was sent a while back?


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## DiegotheDestroyer (Sep 16, 2008)

I've heard from people who've had dealings with them that they're very clever snakes, and seem happy to stay out of your way if you stay out of theirs. Do they eat exclusively other snakes? Is it possible to get them onto rodents, or would they still need snakes to supplement their diet?


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

this is a quote from somebody who owns a king when i asked about info on them
"yes they can be converted onto rats but it takes a great deal of patience , and its not a simple process. "


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

a hide box with a lockable door... get the snake to go into the hide and drop the door... that's how i'd do it...

a king cobra is nothing to mess with...


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

most cobras seem more alert and smarter than most, when im watching my Naja haje legionis i swear he is working me out:lol2:. As for aggression the worst i have is my Macklot python.
just because a snake is venomous does not mean its aggressive some of the calmest snakes i have seen owned or worked with are venomous and vice verca. The main difference is if you have an aggressive venomous snake a bite is a wee bit more of a problem


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

to be honest with you i'd much rather work with a hot thats aggressive than an agressive hungry retic that's because i'm a major weakling though...


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

now you dont mean that do you

Pissed of retic or teleporting Tiapan?


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

umm i wouldn't go in a 10 mile radius of a taipan. But I'm not major fan of angry retics at the minute either.


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

Get yourself a Forest Cobra (Naja melanoleuca) and if you survive this animal after six months contemplate a king cobra


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## Snake_bite (Apr 10, 2010)

I have a very simple set up for my Venomous that is very effective. I use shift cages with sliding lockable dividers. I can slide the divider in and clean what ever side the snake is not on. It works quite well and a good cleaning can be done without any stress on the snake. You can then wait until it moves to the other side of the tank or coax it a little then slide in the divider again. I have also used boxes that the snakes enter. I agree about cobras being smart. I have thought about training my cobras to come into a box when a light is switched on inside the box indicating a mouse is inside. I think it can work after watching some videos on youtube of trained reptiles (and goldfish) lol

Re: King Cobras, they can be converted onto rats. I have know guys to use the shed skins of another snake and stuff them with pinkies or other appropriate sized rodent the whole way down. It can be a means of converting them over. Otherwise they are pretty fussy.

May be controversial but colubrids breed almost as freely as rats and mice so we should be able to get a supply of frozen snakes although I can see why that may not go down too well. There are biological supply companies that sell frozen lizards to school biology classes though!


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

King Cobras do better on snakes.
I have never been a fan of converting a snake away from its natural diet. Rats contain a lot more fat than snakes do, and considering the amount they eat, its just asking for health issues.

King Cobras are large, overstating the obvious. This means they require a large enclosure. They require alot of moisture to shed well, and this means more than just a waterbowl on a heat pad. They are great snakes to keep, and incredibly rewarding captives, but its best to practice husbandry etc. with other snakes first. They may be big and imposing, but stress kills them quickly.


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

leecb0 said:


> :lol2:. As for aggression the worst i have is my Macklot python.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I have to agree with you on this, out of all the snakes I have worked with Macks do seem to be the worst. Unpredictable, fast and one hell of a feeding response.
> I have had an 7ft Mack hang on to me for the best part of an hour, the more you move the tighter they get and that was after canceling it's feeding response.


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## DiegotheDestroyer (Sep 16, 2008)

Snakes Incorporated said:


> Get yourself a Forest Cobra (Naja melanoleuca) and if you survive this animal after six months contemplate a king cobra


I had imagined getting something else first, but as its going to be many years before I'm ready for any DWA I figured I'd work that out later.

I also thought about feeding, and thought about getting some corns going, and using them as feeders. Would it be better to use a species that the King Cobra would eat in the wild though?

Are you serious about Macklott's? Mine is the most relaxed snake ever, like a more interesting Royal. Although I had her out in the sun yesterday and she pee'd on me...


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

King Cobras are not too particular, though some specimens can be.

@snake bite: what do you do if the snake defecates in the sliding track?


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## Azemiops (May 1, 2008)

exoticsadmirer said:


> i think they aren't that agressive if i recall from information i was sent a while back?


Very misleading, it is completely down to the individual snake. I have worked with several which are very 'easy going', but then again i have also worked with plenty that will happily chase you out of their walk-in enclosures. When i first aquired mine he was relatively easy going and would prefer to flee rather than confront me. Now that i have added UV into the enclosure, his behaviour has completely changed and he is now far more aggressive.



exoticsadmirer said:


> this is a quote from somebody who owns a king when i asked about info on them
> "yes they can be converted onto rats but it takes a great deal of patience , and its not a simple process. "


Again, its down to the individual snake. I know people who have had to force-feed their kings for over year, eventually resulting in the death of the snake which i guess would be down to stress. However, i had good success getting mine onto defrost rats quite quickly. A lot of it comes down to the locality of the King cobra. Malaysian localities appear to be much easier to switch over to rodents than Indonesian or Chinese localities.



mad martin said:


> King Cobras do better on snakes.
> I have never been a fan of converting a snake away from its natural diet. Rats contain a lot more fat than snakes do, and considering the amount they eat, its just asking for health issues.


I guess this comes down to personal choice. I was fully prepared to feed mine whatever he wanted for however long he wanted, however i made the decision to attempt to switch him. Now that he is feeding on rats, it certainly takes a great deal of stress off his up-keep (and my wallet). I was offering him 1-2 rats every week to begin with, and he started packing weight on very quickly. Ive now cut it back to feeding him 1 rat every 10 days and he is continuing to gain weight much at a much slower rate.


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## Snake_bite (Apr 10, 2010)

mad martin said:


> @snake bite: what do you do if the snake defecates in the sliding track?


To be honest I just slide on through it and clean round it. I do remove the snakes to do a complete clean though. I have a small viv in my unit between my rattle snake and cobra tank which currently houses a northern copperhead. I was thinking about moving him and using his tank as a holding tank for the two species. basically I would cut a hole into the middle tank from both sides then have a heat lamp in the small tank. I would then turn off the main heat source in the tank and leave the snakes to seek out the new heat source then lock them in the middle tank while cleaning is carried out. I have a feeling Cobra could be trained or conditioned. Perhaps when the light came on in the middle tank a food item could be placed in there. Conditioning would make them respond to the light indicating that they are going to be fed. I think this is achievable. I have been doing some research on target training reptiles and it seems feasible. There are some good videos on youtube too.

After mentioning my shift cage idea to some mates they were not impressed saying "Oh I dont know about that if you left the two slides open and the rattlers meet the cobras" but I think that is so silly as if your going to be careless with such venomous animals you shouldn't be keeping them at all!

I will make a new thread about my training ideas, I actually think it will make for an interesting debate.

I have no problem with handling venomous animals by the way and have been doing it since I was 18 years old. However i do not agree with taking unnecessary risks or unnecessarily stressing animals that is why I like to use the protective contact method that I am developing.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'll be copperhead hunting wednesday... i'll bring my camera...


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## Snake_bite (Apr 10, 2010)

how do i delete this message? I can only edit what I say


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