# Help On Fake rock builds



## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

Hi,

I am going to be making a massive fake rock background for my 6 foot high water dragon tank. Just a few questions:

polystyrene is ok i can get that
but what grout will i need?
paint?
best glue?
etc.

help me please!!!

Cheers

Neil


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## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

any1???


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## cmmercer (Aug 6, 2008)

grout: just buy a bag of mix yourself grout from b&q. Its easy then to make each subsequent layer thicker.

paint: acrylics are fine, and cheap to pick up decent sized tubes/tubs in art shops

glue: Iassume you mean sealant to finish with. In a humid environment I would strongly suggest yacht varnish. bit stinky, but given enough time to air out it will be the best choice!


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## Jim2109 (Mar 30, 2009)

fake rocks are overdone, for a water dragon viv i cant encourage you enough to go for a fake tree build!! its trickier but the end results are amazing, and far more realistic to their habitat. all it takes is a couple of big tree trunks with some buttress roots at the bottom 

as for your questions...

polystyrene works ok. space foam works better!! its probably slightly more expensive, but loads easier to work with. also expanding foam is much more versatile, you can make shapes with it a lot easier than with polystyrene or foam.

personally ive just used Homebase own brand pre-mixed grout, its actually called "waterproof tile grout and adhesive", it comes in a white bucket with blue bits on it. they also do an adhesive only one that is nowhere near as good (its too flexible). its probably cheaper to use powder and mix it yourself, just go to your local DIY store and look at the descriptions on the back, and if any of them say they are suitable for swimming pools then use that one, otherwise just use anything that doesnt have anti-mould and that is a grout and not just an adhesive. when you apply it start out with about 10-20% more water than they recommend to make it runnier as its easier to apply (i added water to the pre-mixed stuff, mixed it up hard and it worked just fine). then get progressively thicker. use a minimum of 5 layers.

paint - any kind. acrylic is cheap and easy, water it down so its really thin, apply it with the background laid on its back, flat. start out dark and runny, this will give you the shadows. then get lighter and thicker to pick out the mid tones. the final coat/s should be dry brushed to give the highlights. you can also use spray paints if youre artistically skilled to use them effectively. you can get a stone effect spray that looks quite interesting that im going to experiment with shortly. spray paints are easy to just cover large areas when you want to pick out detail though unless youre good with them, im typically not so i stick to brushing paint on lol.

best glue - for sticking the polystyrene together? i used cocktail sticks to hold blocks together and a no more nails alternative made by evostik. if youre impatient though hot glue from a glue gun sets in about 10 mins, so you can skip out the stage of leaving the glue to dry overnight before you start the first layer of grout.

if you meant for sealing it, then id use something more resistant to water since youll have high humidity. yacht varnish is the common approach and the cheapest one. epoxy resin, G4 pond seal and Antel A1 pond paint are some more expensive, but more effective options. the jury is still out on which one looks the least shiny once dried.


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## serpentsupplies (Sep 4, 2009)

remember to put in plant pots in while your building it if you are going to have them. also check out our new decor range


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## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

thanks for your help im starting it next week


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## Jim2109 (Mar 30, 2009)

heres the Chinese Water Dragon enclosure at Marwell Zoo....









aside from the large Y-shaped branch up the middle which im fairly certain is real, and the branch laid on the floor which im fairly sure is real, and possibly the tree stump on the left which im undecided on (it looks rendered when youre up close to it, but it also looks incredibly real!!), all the other trees in this enclosure are fake. although youd struggle to notice!

the rocks on the left are also fake.

fake trees look amazing  and these ones dont even have buttress roots!

P.S. there are 4 water dragons in there, 3 females and 1 male. theyre not particularly easy to spot though.


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## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

cool! i have gone for fake tree build. this will be my first background build lol


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## spatte88 (Jun 29, 2009)

Jim2109 said:


> if you meant for sealing it, then id use something more resistant to water since youll have high humidity. yacht varnish is the common approach and the cheapest one. epoxy resin, G4 pond seal and Antel A1 pond paint are some more expensive, but more effective options. the jury is still out on which one looks the least shiny once dried.


What make/name epoxy resin is good to use and where is best to source it from?


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## Jim2109 (Mar 30, 2009)

niliano_05 said:


> cool! i have gone for fake tree build. this will be my first background build lol


awesome  fake trees are harder to get right but only because they need more attention to detail at the grouting stage. with rocks you make the shapes in foam/polystyrene and then the grout just has to be slapped on with a stiff bristled brush. with trees you can make the shapes more easily since you do most of it with expanding foam, but youve got to texture the grout to get the bark effect, and then the painting becomes quite important to get the colours and shading right.

theres an awesome guide on how to make a tree stump here...
http://www.bbrock.frognet.org/Making artificial trees and vines.pdf

basically work to the same principles, but remember you are building the trees into a back wall, so the ones in the middle are easier as they arent a corner piece. personally id build the whole lot onto a sheet of polystyrene, rather than as individual trees, as its easier this way. for my own build im making individual trees though and its not too tricky. my waterfall was infinitely more difficult.


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## Jim2109 (Mar 30, 2009)

spatte88 said:


> What make/name epoxy resin is good to use and where is best to source it from?


epoxy resin for this purpose is all fairly similar, it ranges from cheap stuff to super expensive stuff, but the price tends to reflect the strength more than anything, and you dont need strength in this case. so just find some cheap stuff, its on ebay sometimes. or go for a dedicated pond paint/sealant like A1 or G4. G4 is polyurethane based, but A1 is epoxy based. they both work very similarly.


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## niliano_05 (May 7, 2009)

after two days of work ive decided that the fake tree build isnt gonna happen so its more like rock randomness but still looks good  will post pics up soon!


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## Jim2109 (Mar 30, 2009)

lol, 2 days is far too soon to give up! im about 3 days in to my fake tree, not 3 full days, just 20 mins here and there then waiting for expanding foam to set. il get some pics up later in the week of it. it takes some patience, but the shape is getting there and ive not done anything difficult. the next part is the tough bit, grouting a 6 foot tall tree!!


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## Pendragon (Dec 8, 2008)

Jim2109 said:


> lol, 2 days is far too soon to give up! im about 3 days in to my fake tree, not 3 full days, just 20 mins here and there then waiting for expanding foam to set. il get some pics up later in the week of it. it takes some patience, but the shape is getting there and ive not done anything difficult. the next part is the tough bit, grouting a 6 foot tall tree!!


 
I hope to see some pics of this tree of yours soon Jim : victory:

Jay


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## lazydog (Dec 18, 2009)

Jim2109 said:


> lol, 2 days is far too soon to give up! im about 3 days in to my fake tree, not 3 full days, just 20 mins here and there then waiting for expanding foam to set. il get some pics up later in the week of it. it takes some patience, but the shape is getting there and ive not done anything difficult. the next part is the tough bit, grouting a 6 foot tall tree!!



I know its been a while back but any updates with pic's would be nice---pleeze


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## htd100 (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi, 

If it's your first build I wouldent make it too alaborate.
Just focus on making it last,maybe better using real branches and stones shaped into the grout,as the claws soon take there tole on the structure and if the grout isent thick enough it will make holes. Sand put on wet Pva then coated in pond sealant or epoxy resin would proberly withstand the claws,but to honest noting is better than cork sheets or somthing that it can cling on to. Problem is it's very expencive although you could just put it on one wall.

If it's 6ft heigh the it may get heavey,I've started whacking nails into the wood and sticking the polystyrene into the nails. Althought that's if you want to build it into the viv with all the associted problems like cleaning and moving the viv without damaging it. One good thing with building it in is you and realy make it structually strong. Using wooden surports fixed into the Walls.

If you feel confident you can build it you could concider building it parts and asemble it in the room.

Hope this helps abit.

Howard


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