# Young snake setups



## rantasam (Nov 28, 2006)

I've seen a couple of posts knocking about recently asking about setups for hatchling snakes. I thought I'd put some pictures together and explain a bit about my setups. This may be teaching many of you old grannys to suck eggs(!!), but hopefully those newer to the hobby will find this at least a bit helpful.  

Below are my setups:










This is my cornsnake Cecilia's home. The tub is a 20l Really Useful Box from Staples. One very useful feature of these boxes is that the handles clip onto the lid, securing the enclosure and hopefully preventing snake escape! You can see that I've drilled ventilation holes along the top on the cool side of the viv, and further down towards the bottom on the warm side. As hot air rises, this hopefully creates a flow of fresh air through the viv, whilst still retaining the heat. 

Along the bottom towards the right of the viv, you can see the heatmat just poking out. The mat should cover one-third to one-half of the viv, to ensure that a temperature gradient is created. This means that your snake can move around to cool down or warm up until they are comfortable. Outside the viv to the rear you should just be able to make out the white box-shape that is the thermostat of the mat. A thermostat is essential as without one, the temperature of the heat mat goes unchecked and can rise to levels which may burn the snake - there are even stories of the substrate catching fire in extreme cases. I choose to put the probe for the thermostat in the viv itself - there is a hole drilled into the bottom right side, and the probe is fed through and sits on top of the substrate under the right-hand hide. Other people simply tape the probe to the heatmat outside the viv.. it's personal preference which method you choose to use.

Talking of substrate, I choose to use Aspen bedding for my snakes. A word of caution about this choice - I take my snakes out of the viv at feeding time and transfer them to another tub with kitchen roll on the bottom. There is a small risk of a snake ingesting bits of Aspen when they are eating, so I would not recommend feeding snakes in their vivs, although many people do and have no problems.










This is a view inside the same box. On the far left of the box is a black thing on the floor. This is the display of my digital thermometer. You will also see a black wire coming down the right hand side of the viv, which is a secondary probe attached to the thermometer and sits under the warm-side hide. These 'in/out' thermometers are inexpensive, and allow temp readings to be taken at both ends of the viv, which allows you to adjust the temperature gradient until it is spot-on for the species of snake you are keeping. At the bottom left of the pic is a humid hide. This is a hide with a sealed bottom containing damp sphagnum moss, which gives the snake somewhere to go with increased humidity. This is especially useful around the time when your snake is shedding, as being too dry can cause incomplete sheds. This tub also has a branch in it for my corn to climb on - don't know why I bother really as it gets ignored most of the time, but at least she has the option! Another advantage of branches is that they provide a rough surface for the snake to rub their old skin on during shedding.

In the centre you can see my water bowl. In this setup, this is placed partially over the hear source to keep the background humidity in the viv at acceptible levels. The waterbowl should be big enough to allow the snake to curl up in it if they choose. If you do place your water dish over the heatsource as I have, ensure that it is cleaned and disinfected regularly as heat+water = bacteria growth.

On the right of the viv is Cecilia's hot-end hide. Hides generally can be made of out anything, as long as they are non-toxic and are roughly of the size where the snake can fit in snuggly and touch the sides. This is the end of a mince pie box, with access holes cut into each side. It's just the right size for my snake and can be chucked away and replaced really cheaply when it gets soiled. You can see her head poking out on this shot, wondering what the idiot with the camera is up to this time!

The setup I have for my Royal, Jim, is pretty much the same:










This is again a 20l Really Useful Box, but a flatter shape. I chose this for my royal as hatchings can sometimes be funny about large open spaces - I felt a more enclosed environment may help make him feel more secure. Again here you can see the heat mat and thermostat setup, and also the drilled ventilation holes as previously. 










The inside of this viv is slightly different to the corn one. In here I have three hides. On the far left you'll see a damp hide made from a margarine tub. All I have done (after cleaning it!) is cut a hole in the top and again filled it with sphagnum moss - a cheaper option than the Exo-Terra hide in the first viv, if maybe not as pretty! I then have two other normal hides... one over the cool and warm halves of the viv and one just on the warm side. Many of the problems people experience with Royals are down to the way in which they are kept. I've tried with this setup to give Jim plenty of options for hiding away and hopefully the enviromnent allows him to feel as secure as possible. Although it may seem that he has little space in there, remember he can clamber all over the hides as well as inside them. 

One difference with this setup compared to the previous one, is that there is no climbing branch. I may get one in the future, but I'm not in any hurry. You will notice that the waterbowl I've put in is a rough clay one, which gives Jim something to rub against when shedding. The thermometer for this viv is not present in this picture as the battery has just died, but it is used in exactly the same way as I have described in the first viv.

So there you go. There are many ways to keep snakes successfully, but this is the method I have found works for me and my snakes. If anyone reads this and feels I have missed anything, please feel free to post your own setups!


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## Graz (Dec 7, 2006)

do corns like mincepies ?


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

:smile: where'd ya get the tubs


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## Daniel (Jul 28, 2005)

so thats who ate all the pies!!!!
dan


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

weelad said:


> :smile: where'd ya get the tubs


"The tub is a 20l Really Useful Box from Staples":smile:


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## groovy chick (Aug 1, 2006)

Excellent. What a good idea well done :smile:


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## Chevin (Feb 24, 2007)

Top idea

Just bought 1 from staples, the locking handles seem really secure....i hope!!
just to clear up tho, the ventilation holes are drilled in the top of the cold area and near the bottom on the warm side
do you need anything else under bedding to avoid harming snake if gets too hot?


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

Chevin said:


> Top idea
> 
> Just bought 1 from staples, the locking handles seem really secure....i hope!!
> just to clear up tho, the ventilation holes are drilled in the top of the cold area and near the bottom on the warm side
> do you need anything else under bedding to avoid harming snake if gets too hot?


One thing to watch if this is for your milksnake - if you look through the base of the tub at the area where to lid meets the main tub, there may be a fairly large gap, just big enough for a small snake to get through or get stuck in. If you think there's any chance of the snake getting through the gap you need to make a kind of seal out of a piece of cardboard that will fit in the lid and cover the gap all the way around. Or use a different kind of tub! 

If you think there's even the remotest possibility that the snake can escape or get stuck, it probably will! 
I know of a couple of people who've had hatchlings die in really useful boxes after getting stuck in this gap so don't take any chances.

I just drill/melt vent holes along the sides of my tubs - one row near the top and one near the bottom. As long as there's several holes on at least two sides of the tub you'll get enough airflow.

You don't need to put anything under the substrate/bedding - the thermostat should be controlling the heat so the tub should never get too warm.

One last point - don't have any more than half the box on the heat mat. The heat can carry along the base of the tub and end up heating the cool end as well if too much of the tub is on the mat. 
I have mine about 1/3 on the mat which gives the snake a large enough warm area, while leaving enough of a cool area should it want to get away from the heat entirely.


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## Chevin (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanks mate

It is for my milksnake, and have been going over container with fine tooth comb to make sure, firstly its not dangerous and that it wont escape.

got my stat to regulate temp and have made sure that mat only covers what is required.

my set up is nearly complete, really cant wait to get the little fella.

cheers for advice


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

If it's a hatchling/juvenile milk that you're getting then the gap could well be a problem. Have a read of the link below, the snake in question was a 2 year old corn, but unfortunately doesn't say what size the box was:

Really Useful Boxes - Livefood UK Forum

What size box have you got? eg. 4 litre, 9 litre, etc...


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## Chevin (Feb 24, 2007)

Well i did buy a starter kit originally from local store, but to be honest i wasn't 100% sure about the security of it once i'd set it up. plus it was only after that i joined the forum and saw basically everyone losing corns and milks all over the place!!
thats when i read these posts about the really usefull boxes and thought i'd give it a go.
The containers recommended were about 20L, but the height was too much, and felt my milk would only get panicked, so in the end i got a flat 18L tub, so it had plenty of floor space for lots of diff hides and at the same time, not that big it would worry the snake.
what you think?


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

An 18L size should be ok - I start them off in smaller ones myself, but as long as it feeds then no worries. 
If you do get any feeding problems just move down to a smaller tub for a couple of months, and then back to the 18L once he's grown a bit.

But please make sure the tub you have is secure - if it's definitely a "really useful" box (with the blue locking handles) then there will almost certainly be a gap around the top. 

The lid doesn't form an airtight seal, it kind of sits on little crossbeams and the gap between these cross pieces, especially around the corners of the tub, can be quite large - I have a 9L and the gaps at the corners are just the right size for a little head to get stuck, even if the snake can't completely escape.

Like I said, any doubts at all - even if there's only a 2mm gap (most snakes can flatten their heads!) - cut out a piece of cardboard and fit it snugly into the lid to make it secure.


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## Chevin (Feb 24, 2007)

i have got slightly smaller 1 that i bought from local reptile store, so as you say, just see how he's settles in.

see what you mean about the gaps just under the lid, cant notice them at all from the top, only when you turn box upside down.

i was going to plug some of the holes with something and also attach a piece of cardboard to make sure he cant pop his head through.

cheers for help on this mate.

kev.


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

Yep, that's it, you don't see the gap until you turn the box upside down and look through the base - it's easily missed.

Hope it all goes ok :smile:


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## salad dodger (Feb 13, 2007)

just wonderin why you spent so much on a exo bowl ? surely that matches the price of the rest of the set up ?


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## Dizaster66 (Jan 28, 2007)

*plugging the gap.*

Hi 

Was just wondering if you could plug the gap in these boxes with something like draught exlcuder tape ??

I was thinking about using the 4 Litre style boxes , but now wondering if they have enough height for hatchlings ? or would it be better to go for 9 Litre boxes for the extra height ?? 

Any thoughts

Dizzy


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## Chevin (Feb 24, 2007)

Hi mate,
I had my 1st bash at setting 1 of these really useful boxes up and hasnt gone 2 bad, guys on here are great for advice. i've put some pics on photobucket.com. 
if u go to site and search Chevin_01 then click the link finding my profile. everyone on site mentioned probs with gap and i didnt see it for ages! so all i did was plug the gap with bubble wrap, cut a cardboard template out and sealed it with see through plastic, seems to be fine and if the snake gets through then he is a genius. its a bit tricky to do see thru plastic, prob need 2 people! i only plan on having box for year or so.
as i said, i'm new to this whole thing anyway, i'm just going on my 1st experience at it. i'll def find out tomorrow if it works cos i'm getting 1st milksnake! yeh!
as for size, i went for 18L flat container, i wanted enough floorspace for many hides but at the same time i didnt want it 2 high as to make baby feel insecure?
hope this helps a little...if not..sorry!

atb

Kev


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks a lot for this  a great help working out how to house my first royal who's home i shall be shopping for today


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## mleadley (Oct 1, 2007)

Good caresheet


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## rantasam (Nov 28, 2006)

Here's a great post on one of the methods of dealing with the gap.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snakes/87181-rub-s-converting.html


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## snickers (Aug 15, 2007)

I use 9l and 64L rubs for carpets set up in a very similar way. I put the air holes in the sides (top and bottom) so that I can stack them if necessary.
The thing I especially like about RUBs is that they are so easy to clean out.


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## charlie2e1dxy (Feb 29, 2008)

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
I'm getting a royal hatchling soon, and will give this set up a go!
One question though, where is the basking heat source, or don't you use one?


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## snickers (Aug 15, 2007)

I put a heat mat under one end. A thermostat will keep the heat at the right level. Attach the thermostat to the heatmat and use a thermometer inside the RUB to get the heat correct.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

just bumping up the thread to help out people new to the hobby.


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## Woodyofcastle (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for the info people...

i am new to the hobby and i bought my first amel-motley last friday, i don't know if it is female or male yet, it is still in a cricket box at the moment, so i was wondering if it is ok to put my corn in a 18 to 20 ltr RUB now or will this freighten my corn.

my corn was hatched on 4/6/08 and has had 3 feeds so far :2thumb:


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