# Stop Florida Reptile Ban!



## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Had this emailed to me today, take a look.
[FONT=Arial Narrow,Arial MT Condensed Light,sans-serif]Stop Florida Reptile Ban!​[/FONT]Dear Friends,  
I'm forwarding this request from USARK to all of you. Please take a couple of minutes to respond as everything is completed for you. Our hobby and industry is under attack as NEVER before. The battle can only be one by fighting at this grass roots level. All of you in the Reptile Nation rise up and state your feelings loud and clear. LET THE POWERS THAT BE KNOW WE ARE A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Thank you in advance. Just follow the link below to our instant email tool. It is as easy as filling in your info and pushing the submit button. Click here to email FWC and Gov Crist:
http://usark.org/campaign.php?id=8 

 

Tom Crutchfield. www.tomcrutchfield.com
[email protected]
239-645-9661 

USARK - United States Association of Reptile Keepers
http://usark.org


LAST CHANCE- Stop Florida Reptile Ban Now!
You are a stakeholder in this issue even if you don't live in Florida, since this would impact all Reptiles of Concern passing through Florida as well as those produced in Florida. The Reptile Nation has worked very hard with FWC and members of the Florida legislature to craft regulations and statutes that would protect the environment, ensure human and animal safety and retain the ability to pursue our hobby and business. We hope to put the FWC commissioners and Florida Governor on notice that we want the best thing done for the animals, the public and the industry. Also, could you please forward this message to others on your e-mail list.
The Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) will meet September 9th, 10th and 11th. On the agenda will be Reptiles of Concern and whether to ban them administratively this year. Please don't let this happen! What happens in Florida will have repercussions across the country. We need everyone to weigh in on this and send an email to the FWC Commissioners. Even if you are not a Florida resident you can sign the letter as a potential stakeholder. The Humane Society of the United States has been mischaracterizing the issue and spreading inaccurate statistics. The Reptile Nation needs to be heard from coast to coast on this important debate.
USARK President, Andrew Wyatt will be traveling to Florida to attend the meeting. Let the FWC hear the voice of the Reptile Nation prior to his arrival. We have a very good argument to make, but it will be much more convincing if we get a big email push from the Nation. Just follow the link below to our instant email tool. It is as easy as filling in your info and pushing the submit button. Do it now!
Click here to email FWC and Gov Crist
USARK

This is a public meeting. We urge all Florida residents and stakeholders to come to the meeting and express your concerns. Our issues are on the agenda for the afternoon of the 9th.
Time: 8:30 a.m. 
Date: September 9-11, 2009 
Place: Mission Inn
10400 County Road 48
Howey-in-the-Hills, FL 34737
Phone: (352) 324-3101
Fax: (352) 324-2636
Website: Orlando Golf Resorts: Mission Inn Resort Club Howey In The Hills Florida FL Mount Dora Lake County Central area golf tennis luxury hotels suites rooms family vacations getaways packages weddings conferences centers meetings planning real estate 

​ 


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Bit from their website.
*Occupational Hazard and Public Safety

*There are two types of risk associated with livestock management - occupational risk and public safety. These are completely separate issues. In the case of the Reptile Industry, occupational risk is the risk posed to those individuals who work with and around reptiles (not the innocent public). Public safety risk is that posed to the general public outside of the reptile keeper’s facility.

Unusually large specimens of the five largest snake species, venomous snakes and crocodilians do present a moderate occupational risk to their keepers. However, by any objective measure, the risk is no greater than that associated with other traditional livestock or pets. In recent years the Animal Rights (AR) Movement has waged an aggressive and sensational campaign to paint this occupational risk as an eminent threat to public safety. This is a false claim, confusing occupational hazard and public safety.

The AR Movement has lobbied in a number of States to pass legislation that would designate many reptiles as "Inherently Dangerous", seeking to ban private ownership. The reality is that there are many other types of livestock and pets that have been demonstrated, statistically and historically, to be much more dangerous to both keepers and to the public than any reptiles. However, no proposal has been made to label other animals, including dogs, horses, and other livestock, with the designation of "Inherently Dangerous", even though annually they each injure and kill far more people than do any reptile species.

This is an example of the prejudice felt by segments of the public against reptiles. Some people are frightened of reptiles. There is no doubt that reptiles, particularly snakes, carry the baggage of cultural bias, irrational fear and misunderstanding. This is in spite of the fact that only about one person a year is killed in this country by a captive reptile as an occupational hazard, compared to, say, the average 90 people a year that are killed by horses. No members of the general public have been killed by either reptiles or horses in the US.

USARK rejects the designation of "Inherently Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with potentially dangerous reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

No member of the public, no emergency responder, no innocent bystander has ever been seriously injured or killed by a captive reptile in the United States.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Pete Q said:


> No member of the public, no emergency responder, no innocent bystander has ever been seriously injured or killed by a captive reptile in the United States.


Thats not actualy true!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

At least one death occured here. Ironically in Florida :-

Pet Burmese Python Kills Child Shaiunna Hare: Oxford Florida Snake Owned By Charles Jason Darnell | World News | Sky News


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Here's a little bit on dog attacks in the USA to compair.
DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> Thats not actualy true!


A member of the same family is NOT a member of the public!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Chris Newman said:


> A member of the same family is NOT a member of the public!


I'm sure the parents of the little girl involved will take great comfort in your opinion.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> I'm sure the parents of the little girl involved will take great comfort in your opinion.


Your point is!


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

Chris Newman said:


> A member of the same family is NOT a member of the public!





Chris Newman said:


> Your point is!


I;M a knob!


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> I'm sure the parents of the little girl involved will take great comfort in your opinion.


Chris stated a simple fact that a family member IS NOT classed as a member of the public. Maybe the parents in many of these cases should worry more about there parenting skills and keeping animals securly.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Chris Newman said:


> Your point is!


If you can't figure that out all on your own, I very much doubt you'd understand my explanation either.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> If you can't figure that out all on your own, I very much doubt you'd understand my explanation either.


Thats very dis'respectful, he has done more for this hobby than most of us put together. This is one of the reasons why we are an easy target.


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## drpjtaylor (Feb 26, 2008)

Lego said:


> You're a knob!


Well out of order.:naughty:


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

drpjtaylor said:


> Well out of order.:naughty:


Considering who he is and what he does for the uk reptile movement in general. I totally agree.


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

drpjtaylor said:


> Well out of order.:naughty:


Lol ok maybe a little bit... not the point though really. Whether a member of the public died or a family member - someone still died and I personally found it quite insulting that the death of a child was just brushed off


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## Dave-Flames (Sep 20, 2006)

Jaren Ashley Hare, 19, and her boyfriend, Charles Jason Darnell, were each charged with manslaughter, third-degree murder and child abuse, said officials from the Sumter County Sheriff's Office.


Due to what they have been charged with shows there was a lot more to it then just the snake though really.


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

As animal keepers, lovers, we live in very dark and difficult times. The Animal Rights Industry [ARI] is not driven by an agenda of welfare or interest in animals, it is driven by ulterior motivations, commonly financial. What we need, as keepers, is clarity in our arguments. We need to make certain that facts are not clouded with disingenuous interpretations. In this case to the best of my knowledge no member of the general public has been serious injured or killed – that is simply stating a fact, which is extremely powerful. The same argument cannot be made for example for dogs, therefore proportionality come into play. Would it be proportionate to ban pythons and not dogs!

The fact that in this case a child had dies is very sad and tragic, and no one would suggest otherwise. Notwithstanding this in the eyes of the law she was not ‘a member of the general public’ – she was a member of the family. That makes a huge difference. 

Ultimately I suspect there is a lot more to the little girls death than is at first apparent. Indeed I am highly circumspect about many of the fatalities attributed to large constrictors in the USA.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Lego said:


> Lol ok maybe a little bit... not the point though really. Whether a member of the public died or a family member - someone still died and I personally found it quite insulting that the death of a child was just brushed off


 Still out of order. Trouble with posting on forums is that it's really easy to mis understand someone or what someone has written and just assume someones being a "knob" , it could be said that you also brushed it off with your comment as you didn't say anything about it either in your first post. This seems to be how many falling outs happen here.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Pete Q said:


> Still out of order. Trouble with posting on forums is that it's really easy to mis understand someone or what someone has written and just assume someones being a "knob" , it could be said that you also brushed it off with your comment as you didn't say anything about it either in your first post. This seems to be how many falling outs happen here.


True, if all forum members on this thread were having this debate over a pint in a pub then the whole tone would be very different.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Chris Newman said:


> As animal keepers, lovers, we live in very dark and difficult times. The Animal Rights Industry [ARI] is not driven by an agenda of welfare or interest in animals, it is driven by ulterior motivations, commonly financial. What we need, as keepers, is clarity in our arguments. We need to make certain that facts are not clouded with disingenuous interpretations. In this case to the best of my knowledge no member of the general public has been serious injured or killed – that is simply stating a fact, which is extremely powerful. The same argument cannot be made for example for dogs, therefore proportionality come into play. Would it be proportionate to ban pythons and not dogs!
> 
> The fact that in this case a child had dies is very sad and tragic, and no one would suggest otherwise. Notwithstanding this in the eyes of the law she was not ‘a member of the general public’ – she was a member of the family. That makes a huge difference.
> 
> Ultimately I suspect there is a lot more to the little girls death than is at first apparent. Indeed I am highly circumspect about many of the fatalities attributed to large constrictors in the USA.


It will be interesting to see how the reptile keepers fight this one, weather they all stand up, sit back and see what happens, or just carry on fighting each other. Whatever the view on reptiles being kept as pets in Florida, and I no there are different and some valid ones, it would be bad news if the AR win this one. Any victory for AR over reptile keepers will be used by them for whatever the next attack will be.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Chris Newman said:


> As animal keepers, lovers, we live in very dark and difficult times. The Animal Rights Industry [ARI] is not driven by an agenda of welfare or interest in animals, it is driven by ulterior motivations, commonly financial. What we need, as keepers, is clarity in our arguments. We need to make certain that facts are not clouded with disingenuous interpretations. In this case to the best of my knowledge no member of the general public has been serious injured or killed – that is simply stating a fact, which is extremely powerful. The same argument cannot be made for example for dogs, therefore proportionality come into play. Would it be proportionate to ban pythons and not dogs!
> 
> The fact that in this case a child had dies is very sad and tragic, and no one would suggest otherwise. Notwithstanding this in the eyes of the law she was not ‘a member of the general public’ – she was a member of the family. That makes a huge difference.
> 
> Ultimately I suspect there is a lot more to the little girls death than is at first apparent. Indeed I am highly circumspect about many of the fatalities attributed to large constrictors in the USA.


Fair point about the little girl not being classed as a member of the general public. I also agree that the parents were obviously doing a very poor job. I believe one of them has also been charged with illegal drug possesion since the little girl was killed. 

Right now I'm not sure if I'd be for or against some kind of restriction over there. I have an interest as south florida is an area I've spent a lot of time in. And we intend to retire there. I've spent extended periods of time in the everglades watching wildlife, hunting and fishing. Park officials have told me of their concerns over ptyhons decimating the local wildlife. And so I can see why many people are all for the ban. Though I accept many of these people may not see the whole story.

The fact remains though that the little girls death highlights how easily it is for any old moron to obtain a potentialy lethal reptile and end up with someone being killed as a result of their poor animal keeping skills. I'm sure the members on this thread have their animals housed securely. But no one on here can guarantee the same thing will not happen again. Or that more "exotics" won't be released into the glades causing further problems.


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