# Ripariums for toads and newts



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:

Got that pic handy Morgan? :mf_dribble:

Has anyone ever come across these or are they a new wave?


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I <3 this one









and this one


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

They kinda look like paludariums...but I love the look of both of them!


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

oh right...
what's the difference?
haha


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

The two terms are pretty interchangable- although paludaria are nowadays usually thought of as having more of a definite land area. But if you look at old books and magazines, the word used just depended on the preference of the auther.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> The two terms are pretty interchangable- although paludaria are nowadays usually thought of as having more of a definite land area. But if you look at old books and magazines, the word used just depended on the preference of the auther.


 
Yup as above. Ripariums usually consist of a little hardscaping (rock wood ect) and mainly plants that grow from the water. 









See in this one (which I lurv) the plants are in baskets. There is not an actual land area as such. Any land areas seen in these is created by the hardscaping (in this pic the hardscaping is the rounded pebbles).

They are good huh!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

These were on dendroboard but I had them saved to my PC, just had to search for them. I have a whole selection of terrariums, paludariums and so on for inspiration.

I'm sure the guy who made these had a "how to" I'll try and search for it.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Your second one has the Acorus rush I was talking about in the other thread!:2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Hydrophyte's Blog - Ripariums and Emergent Aquatic Plants


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

You can see why they recommend taller tanks though when you see them growing over the top like that. I think I would try it in another exo :lol2:

a 45x60 or something. It would still allow a decent amount of water and depth to the tank while allowing for height. I am going to add some of the aquatic plants to my red eyed tree frog tank. The bit where the water is looks bare, it is shallowed with large stones of coarse, but I still think think some of these plants would be great. At least I would not have to worry about water logged soil. I had that jointed rush in my first build but it did not do so well...then again...I made loads of mistakes with my plants in that tank.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Seriously, try Anubias. It's best tied to a bit of wood or something rather than buried in the substrate- the roots grow down both sides- and once it gets going it's tough as old boots. It's quite attrctive, too. :2thumb:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Plant Profiles - All Plants

This link should take you to a list of plants with descriptions used in aquascaping. 

Just a thought though, what effect would the plants have on the water?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Hehe plants absorb nitrates and nitrites- and 'bog' plants are especially efficient at it- they help to keep it clean.:2thumb:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Well that is good then. I have never had an aquarium with live plants...so this is a totally new thing for me. 

I have phoned around several online stores that sell aquarium plants. None of them have heard of a riparium. This may mean they are not good at what they do, or may just mean it is new to them as well. I gave one a list of some plants and they do have them in stock and they said they would have a look into riparium planting so they can better instruct me on planting and care as well as the strength of the leaves or stems. 

So fingers crossed I will hear from them soon because that would be really helpful. 

:mf_dribble:


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## frogs_an_lizards_an_Ad (Feb 26, 2009)

randomly clicked on this now i must create one lol... if theres an open top tho what species are best as to avoid escapes! thanks adam =]


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Aquatic frogs- and even then, they might manage to 'spider-climb' out! Fire-bellied toads are the worst for this- I've seen them brace themselves in the corner of a tank and chimney climb all the way to the top. I wouldn't risk an open tank, to be honest- ILTs idea of using an Exoterra is a lot more secure.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

They're best for fish really, I'd be too worried about escapees. Although they don't actually need an open top.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

5 x Elodea Densa  
1 x Aponogetum Crispus 
5 x Elecocharis Parvulus (Dwarf Hairgrass)  
10 x mini Amazon Sword  
5 x Bacopa Monnerii  
5 x Twisted Vallisneria  
10 x Sagittaria Natans  
5 x Rotalla Indica 
5 x Hygrophylia Polysperma  
5 x Cabomba Caroliana  
5 x Ludwigia Mullertii  
5 x Cryptocoryne Wendtii 

I think I might go with this. It is a aquatic plant mix available for 8.95. Some are suitable, others may outgrow the tank, but I also want to do a tank for the fire bellied toads so hopefully I have enough for both. They are recommended for a 24'' tank...still need to hear from them to find out what kind of planter or floater each will need. :2thumb:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

If you want to go the whole hog, you can buy aquatic soil from petshops or garden centres, spread over the base and cover with fine gravel. plants do really well in this, but if you were thinking of using a filter (not strictly necessary) you couldn't use an undergravel- but they are crap for plant growth anyway.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I have read the plants grow better from the soil. The main issue people have using the soil and stones is the cleaning...

Is there any reason I wont need a filter? I have spare pumps, but thought the use of filters helped to keep the water clean, although it obviously does not suck up the waste, I do that manually. 

It would be easier to hide a pump than a filter if it would not cause fred any harm.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok. If your 'animal load' isn't too high- in other words, you only have a few in there- and you have quite heavy planting, the plants will take up most of the wastes, so you shouldn't have to filter, although you will still have to do the occasional water change (25%, roughly). You might not even need a pump- frogs don't need extra oxygen in the water, and some of the best fish for this type of set up (Gouramis or Betas) partly breath air anyway.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks for that! I just realised I did not post the site name I was looking at for the plants...it is Plants Alive


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Ron Magpie said:


> Hehe plants absorb nitrates and nitrites- and 'bog' plants are especially efficient at it- they help to keep it clean.:2thumb:



The problem with most bog plants is that they either only survive in acidic conditions, or they actually *make* the water *very* acidic. Sphagnum moss is the textbook example of this.

I LOVE these ideas but youd really have to watch the pH of your water : victory:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Well, I wouldn't say most MAKE it acid- although moss does. A lot of carnivourous plants etc need acid conditions, but the ordinary ones you get from shops and sites don't, on the whole.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

More things to think about. I have not come across anything about acid levels yet. I will look into it. Thanks.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

As I said, it's not really an issue with most commonly-available plants- although I would love to set-up a proper peatbog stylee tank some day...:2thumb:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

:rant2: (ranting, in case you wondered)

This might be all over before it began. I cant find the hanging wall planters or floating trellis anywhere. Grrrrr. Tried the planted tank forums for advice but they are being ignorant. Here, we see someone that is new, we at least try to answer them or point them in the right direction...but noooo...i have been reading for like three days solid on this and still feel like I am getting nowhere. Then when I finally start to get somewhere deciding on the plants and how to plant those plants I cant get the stuff. Why do I have to get obsessed over new things? Why do I feel the need to get it right? Like you say, Fred does not care what it looks like...he just wants to climb on branches and poop in water. Simple. > Breath < If I had not looked into it I could have just went to the shop, bought some aquarium plants, chucked them in the water, Bobs your uncle. But noooo.. I have to research myself all in an aggitated frenzy. I now hate aquarium planting, as well as pumps! Rant over. I need to lie down. :whistling2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

ilovetoads2 said:


> :rant2: (ranting, in case you wondered)
> 
> This might be all over before it began. I cant find the hanging wall planters or floating trellis anywhere. Grrrrr. Tried the planted tank forums for advice but they are being ignorant. Here, we see someone that is new, we at least try to answer them or point them in the right direction...but noooo...i have been reading for like three days solid on this and still feel like I am getting nowhere. Then when I finally start to get somewhere deciding on the plants and how to plant those plants I cant get the stuff. Why do I have to get obsessed over new things? Why do I feel the need to get it right? Like you say, Fred does not care what it looks like...he just wants to climb on branches and poop in water. Simple. > Breath < If I had not looked into it I could have just went to the shop, bought some aquarium plants, chucked them in the water, Bobs your uncle. But noooo.. I have to research myself all in an aggitated frenzy. I now hate aquarium planting, as well as pumps! Rant over. I need to lie down. :whistling2:


Awwe, chill darlin. How 'arts-and craftsy' are you? You might be able to make what you want, or adapt other objects. Then you know it really is YOUR creation!:2thumb:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

well. i am rather crafty...and have already thought about using foam blocks (like what toe separaters are made from) but I dont want to take chances on what they are made of...what about styrofoam? Do you think this will be safe enough?


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## jamesh (Jul 3, 2009)

if you want to plant things into the walls use coco fibre pannels as these stay wet and are tuff enough to put up with the stress 


90% of your aquarium plants are grown out of water so you can use them on land too providing your humidity is rather high and you mist them once a day, things like anubias, microsorum and echindorus would all do great as emergents and terrestrial plants.

for floating why not use cork bark and make a ditch out of it and fill it with a soil filled hessian pouch with gravel on top


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

How about florist's foam? You might be able to buy it in a florests, or at least get a source.


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## jamesh (Jul 3, 2009)

that gets really powerdy when its touched so prb not the best idea to be honest.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

A point. Although I think it does that more when it dries out. How about pieces of those big, holey bath sponges? you'd have to hide the actual sponge, but it should work.


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## jamesh (Jul 3, 2009)

thats a good idea, would prob work great.

i am only saying stuff from what dart frog owners do as they all seem to use coco pannels and cork bark for everything


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Sure. I just have this philosophy: why pay through the nose to specialist companies, when you can often do it yourself much cheaper? It's partly my generation- when I kept reptiles and amphibians as a teenager, 99% of the specialist equipment hadn't even been invented, let alone was on sale in petshops etc. So you had to improvise. Don't get me wrong, so many bits of modern equipment make life for the keeper 2000% easier, I just don't buy into the idea that everything has to come in a 'kit'. Most of the more interesting vivs I see are the product of the keeper's inventiveness, not the company's marketing.


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## jamesh (Jul 3, 2009)

so what were your setups like then? sounds like you could open us all up to the forgotten old way like when i got explained the old way of keeping tropical fish by having a slate base and a small flame under the tank and using plants for filtration


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

jamesh said:


> if you want to plant things into the walls use coco fibre pannels as these stay wet and are tuff enough to put up with the stress
> 
> 
> 90% of your aquarium plants are grown out of water so you can use them on land too providing your humidity is rather high and you mist them once a day, things like anubias, microsorum and echindorus would all do great as emergents and terrestrial plants.
> ...


Thanks. The floating though is not to make the plants float as such. These are simply peices of floating stuff (good old latin again) that go on top of the hanging basket (which is a planting basket with a suction cup attacked to keep the plant nearer the surface but roots in water) and the simply support the stems of merging plants to hold them upright, as they would normally just want to lie on the water. They are sold in America. But so far I have not found any that deliver here, or sold here...thus te thought of using cut styrofoam as the supports, that would be hidden in time...

Maybe I should just plant everything in aquarium soil, in appropriate places in the tank, and see what happens?


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Decided just to go for it. If everything goes wrong and they all die, it is only £15.00...so I will take some pics...I will just plant them in the base and support them when they emerge if needed. :2thumb:


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

> I cant find the hanging wall planters or floating trellis anywhere.


For the planters have a look in the fish and pond sections on ebay for mesh pots they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes most of the pond ones will be too large for you but there will be some of the small ones that aquarists sell bunched plants in, you should be able to attach them to the side of the tank using suction cups or silicon. Also some of the simple small fish breeding traps might work well as planting baskets.
As for the floating trellis it's just foam, you should be able to cut some yourself from a bit of foam or polystyrene or anything else that floats.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

jamesh said:


> so what were your setups like then? sounds like you could open us all up to the forgotten old way like when i got explained the old way of keeping tropical fish by having a slate base and a small flame under the tank and using plants for filtration


 Hehe. 'Back in the Stone Age....':lol2:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

pollywog said:


> For the planters have a look in the fish and pond sections on ebay for mesh pots they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes most of the pond ones will be too large for you but there will be some of the small ones that aquarists sell bunched plants in, you should be able to attach them to the side of the tank using suction cups or silicon. Also some of the simple small fish breeding traps might work well as planting baskets.
> As for the floating trellis it's just foam, you should be able to cut some yourself from a bit of foam or polystyrene or anything else that floats.


Good thinking!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

You can get the planters on eBay, look for mesh planter. Hanging baskets try the epiweb ones at Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Just so everyone knows, floristry foam is seriously damaging stuff, containing formaldehyde, carbon black, sulphur dioxide and an assortment of other serious toxins or carcinogens...


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks! I DIDN'T know that!


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Learn something new every day. I got some pots...and have been told that if it starts as an emerged plant, and allowed to naturally grow out of the water, most will be strong enough to hold its weight, but I think I will go with styrofoam if not...that sound okay?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Sounds sensible to me. Most plants that naturally grow in and out of water are pretty good a supporting themselves- but if they need help, you can give it. Win-win! :2thumb:


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

they are stunning tanks.....just looked on the site for plants and they are so so cheap, what plants do you guys reccomend for a fire belly toad setup? looking at the tropical/coldwater bundles on there!


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

This is what I have been trying to figure out. But I eventually went with the 18" pack to try it out. 

Apparently almost all of the stem plants can be grown with just the roots in the water. There are plants that will die first then grow back, and some that must be submerged. There is no real instruction that I have found on how to plant a riparium, so I think it is going to be trial and error for a while. But I plan to keep track of each of the plant names that I use, and see which do best.

I think the toads will love that kind of riverbank setup, and I reckon I will have plenty to do both as a trial. It has been recommended to use flouromite for the planting medium and the tabs that set under the roots to help them grow are supposed to be natural and non toxic to animals. 

Order some and try it with me! :blush:


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

well for the sake off £10 i think i will,have missed the xmas order time tho so i shall order in the new year once i have made a plan....

Im not sure how ill keep the water out off the substrate


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh, I thought you were on about doing a riparium, no substrate. 

Depends on what you like, but the land area in my FBT tank at the moment is a cork flat glued (with hot glue gun) just above the water line. They like to go under it...

Or, you could use a container (like tupperware) and put the soil in there. Problems arise here as the toads are always in and out of the water, wetting the soil with each dip...

They dont actually need soil, just a decent size landing pad for feeding and to rest if they want to. Mine spend most of their time on the big rocks that are just below the surface, feet in water, head above.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Mine have an island, based on a perforated, cut-down cricket box to hold plants (although the Anubias has pretty much escaped that now), surrounded by cobbles and flints and and a large, 'arty' peice of rot-proof driftwood, heaped up with gravel. Originally, the cobbles and flints were picked for their shape or colour, but that's all a bit irrelavant now, 'cos the whole land area, including the lower part of the driftwood, is covered in a thick carpet of Java moss!:lol2: ILT is totally right, FBTs drag soil (and water) everywhere, so the standard divided half land half water arrangement usually ends up with dirty water and a quagmire on land. This arrangement just drains water back into the tank.l


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## philbaines (Aug 23, 2007)

Well i thought these had substrate in them for the plants to grow onto?

Or am i being dense here :whistling2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Not in the slightest bit dim, but hence the cricket box- this has a layer of pond soil, covered by gravel- so the plants can get their nutrients without my little cherubs spreading soil far and wide.:lol2: This system only works with semi-aquatic plants- but it does work. The actual box is buried under the sloping gravel bank.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Got the plants today. Really disappointed. Not in the plants, they are green (lol) which is about the extent of my knowledge of healthy plants, but some dont have roots, they came with the lead strips and some tabs, but with no planting instructions. AND they are not individually labelled, so I dont know what is what.

Grr. Just hope I figure them out before they die...

oh, and got cricks today (that were left outside because there is no label indicating what is inside!) and they posted me 2 boxes of medium again, instead of sm-med, so...who else should I try?


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

The plants you got with the lead strips will self root in no time at all - either allow them to submerge in the water and they`ll shoot naturally, or pin them down into a bit of aquatic soil where they can sprout new roots from as soon as they touch a substrate. A lot of it`s a cop out by the companies - they`ve basically sent you cuttings that you have to root yourself! 

As an aside - these ripariums have really got my taste buds going, would love to set one up for a few paddle tails or salamanders - any idea how the plants cope indoors, without much natural sunlight? would have thought, esp if general semi-aquatic, or marginal pond plants where used, that they`d quickly start to suffer?!

Cheers.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I am going to put these plants in two tanks, one with a UV bulb, and one without...time will tell.

The lead things are not even attached to the plants, though...I got:

several really small (1 inch) basket pots that came in a pack with what looks to be similar to hanging basket lining. 

Then some lead strips.

I know the lead strips can go around the bottom...but usually there is foam or something there too and I have not got any. 

I also do not know which like to be planted where...like in soil or gravel? 

I am going to attempt to look them all up tomorrow. For now I have them all soaking...here is hoping all goes well.


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## jamesh (Jul 3, 2009)

the ones in pots will be in stone wool which has been soaked in nutrients so you will get quite a bit of algae if you keep them in that so remove the wool and plant in the substrate.

the ones in bunches are they any of the following? cabomba, elodea, vallisneria, if so remove the lead and push in the ground.

if any of them are microsorum or anubias make sure the rhizome is above the substrate or tie it to something.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

None of them came in bunches, or pots. THe pots and lead strips came separate. These are the plants:

echinodorus tennellus
elodea densa
vallisneria torta
sagittaria natans
eloeacharis parvulus
rotalla indica
bacopa monnerii
aponogetum crispus.

I just need to know which to plant in pots, which in gravel, and which, if any would survive as bog plants...

I have got a little info on them, but not much. I know how big they grow, recommended position in the tank, and light requirements.

Nutrient tabs were also included, with instruction to place one tab under the plants roots...that is about it.

Going to try and start this afternoon so any info would be handy.


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