# Aspen bedding for Lizards ?



## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

Hi all i have a 8 Bearded Dragons and 1 Bosc/Savannah monitor,i was wondering if i could use aspen bedding fro them as they need to be cleaned regulary,as aspen i cheap and can be easily replaced,it would be good in my situation,so i would like peoples help on whether this can be used or not :?: .
i wanted to check if it was alright to use,rather then just go and use it.
Any help will be appriciated.
 Many Thanks Anthony Young


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Just been looking around on the net and can only see it being used for snakes but i shouldn't see why it would be a problem


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## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

Hi there thx very much for the info,i was wondering,that it wat i thought but just wanted to check,didnt want to harm them or anything thx  
 Many Thanks Anthony Young


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## Simon (May 10, 2005)

You run the risk of the beddng being ingested when they are hunting for the crickets that will hide within the aspen. I wouldn't if I were you unles you feed in different tank.

I know some breeders that use Aspen for BD's, but I dont think it's the most advisable substrate for lizards.


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Good point you have there Simon, didn't think about that because we always fed the beardies outside the viv no matter what the substate was!


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## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

Yeh,but can i use it if i feed them out of the viv ?
 Many Thanks Anthony Young


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Yea i would say it would be capable to use if u fed them out of the viv! Alot of beardies to be taking out one by one tho to eat, how do you no if you aint feedin the same one twice lol only jkin m8


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## Luke (May 19, 2005)

thats why i used kids playsand for our beardies in the past.


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## VMatt (May 16, 2005)

Just moved mine on to sand today, I reckon they are now big enough.

It looks great and they seem to enjoy moving it around :?


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

The thing i find best with sand is that instead of taking it all out and adding fresh you can just siv it, it makes life a hell of alot easier!


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## Deadbait (Apr 9, 2005)

you can also get t-rex calci-sand from places now, so if its ingested t is actually good for them rather than being a problem


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Ive only ever seen that calci sand in black, do they come in a variety of colours or is that the only colour you can get?


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## Anthony (Mar 12, 2005)

They come in a variety of colours.
 Many Thanks Anthony Young


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## t-bo (Jan 26, 2005)

Cant see Aspen being as good as sand for Beardies, it would be harder to clean and not as natural underfoot for them... wont do any harm though if hes not fed in the viv.


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## Deadbait (Apr 9, 2005)

they come in loads of colours, black, white, pink, blue, green, purple and get this one GLOW IN THE DARK!!

my gf is using the pink one for her leos at the moment. i used to have the black one in my corns tank when they were smaller, but i found it somehow manages to get everywhere so stopped using it because i got tired of sweeping it up every 5 minutes, and also because theyd drink and then dive straight into it, they were getting covered.


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Glow in the dark sand :lol: i like it! Must be irritating for the reptile tho!


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## bigp (Apr 24, 2005)

i used to use play sand but my god its not long before it stinks!!

it does look nice though.


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## sezza (Jul 6, 2005)

*re calci sand*

i am putting a link here with regards to calci sand or any other sand as a substrate this breeder learned the hard way. Calci sand like all sands i not 100% digestable and therefore puts reptiles health at risk. I know that sand and even calci sand is a hot topic so please read the link and learn before it is too late. Bear in mand also that the damege done by sand is long term and may not show for years. What you all need to bear in mind is that it may look nice but it is a health risk just like smoking is to humans it doesnt mean that you will get cancer but it does increases your chances. I know i am harping on but although i am new on this site the information i have received is from people who have kept reptiles for many many years and they learnt the hard way.

http://www.pythons.com/calcium.html


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Thx for that Sezza, i'll have a read of your link and i may then be thinking twice about buying the stuff!


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## Deadbait (Apr 9, 2005)

if the t-rex sand is ingested in small quantities then there is very little possibility of harm coming to your reptile. it is not supposed to be something you encourage the reptile to eat, by this i mean its not a complete replacement for the need of dusting food by any means.
there were a lot of problems with the early calci-sands that have now been rectified in the new brand. a lot of them were being advertised as calcium sands, BUT not being shown as suitable for digestion, which would have thrown a lot of people. also i have never heard of any problems as of yet with the t-rex bone aid.

my girlfriends leopards geckos very rarely ingest any sand at all with the crickets they eat, but by the sounds of the link you posted the reptiles involved were downing it with every meal, which is probably why they ended up getting ill.

at the very least its a better alternative to regular playsand! heres the link so you can see the product itself :

http://www.t-rexproducts.com/Dynamic/product_detail.asp?item=81718&series=1


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## sezza (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks for your comments but bear in mind that the americans who have kept leopard geckos for longer than us are totally anti sand. After you and your girlfriend goes to bed that is when leos come out and the fact is that theycould well be licking it up. Even when burrowing they will ingest the stuff and it does not digest fully try looking at that link i posted before. It is however a personal choice but one of the reasons most people use it is because they say it is their natural enviroment this is simply not true leos come from the mountain regions of Pakistan which is mostly rock and soil sub strate my personal opinoin and it is just that a personal opinion if there is even a slight chance my leos will ingest the stuff and possibly have impactation then my choice is clear i take out the sand. The best sub strate for leos is in fact slate as this is more like their natural enviroment. After all is said and done it is my personal opinion and as long as it is a knowledgable choice and not through ignorance then at least you are aware of the risks. The guy who did the investigation also used sand both calci sand and play sand for years until the worst happened. All i am saying is at least look at the facts and decide from there.


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## Deadbait (Apr 9, 2005)

simply saying ive had no problems in the past with using the newer stuff. besides, in the setup they have plenty to climb upon, a few enclosed hides (with no sand in) so the actual coverage of the sand when we use it is very little when you take into account everything else thats in the viv with them. 
on no ocassion have we yet seen them eatin or licking the it,we have watched them of a night by moonlight bulb and when they're active during the day also. and as for burrowing the sand isnt deep enough for that, which is why we have the enclosed hides as an alternative.

sand isnt the only substrate we use for them, we just change it every now and them for a bit of variety (im aware that they dont generally live on the sand!). other substrates we use are things like rocks and pebbles to give a rocky viv effect etc.
its not just sand we use at the end of the day, like what the guy in the link was, so i dont think that there will be any problems with using it in a combination with other substrates.


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## sezza (Jul 6, 2005)

Oh yes just one quick point about calcisand, this was originally sold as a substrate for birds until it caused impactation on them after they ate it to aid digestion. rather than admit defeat they have remarketed it as fit for lizrds is that what you want in your tank?


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

Thats put me rite off the stuff now!


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## sezza (Jul 6, 2005)

and one quick point in the sand debate you said that u have kept it on sand for years. 1 Impactation can take years to develop. 2. just like cigarette smoking it doesnt mean you will definately end up with impactation. 3 sand is not a natural enviroment for all lizards. I will argue against sand til i am blue in the face the reason for this is i dont want anyone to be on sand in ignorance because it looks good. kitchen roll may not be pretty but it is reptile safe and for me that is th4e most important thing of all.


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## Andyman (May 16, 2005)

So naturally, where does a bearded dragon come from? And what substrate would you recomend for it? In the petshop they have him on sand!


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## gillsboy (Jun 8, 2005)

berded dragons come from western australia and most people use paper till they adults when they put them on sand.


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## Deadbait (Apr 9, 2005)

lol, im not going to argue with you, if you had also read the last post i wrote, they are not on sand all the time, also using other substrates as well. 
you have made your point that you are totally against using the stuff, which is fine, but that doesnt mean everyone else must share the same view 8) 

im not being ignorant, and now you have said what you have said, i will keep a watchful eye over them when they are on sand and if theres a major thing about it i will discontinue using it, but from one analysis done in the US im not going to jump to panic stations just yet.


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## sezza (Jul 6, 2005)

here are a few more pointers on sand/calcisand substrate

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=13068 

http://www.pythons.com/calcium.html 

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=10311 


Calci-sand is VERY dangerous. 
When this sand enters the digestive track and hits any type of liquid it clumps, and not like food clumps, It also hardens... Like cement. 

Do this: 
Take a cup of cemet mix and put it in your mouth, swollow it and wait a few days, then try to have that come out the back end. 



WARNING: If you would actually eat/drink a cup of cemet... Give your dragon away, and lock yourself in your house for awhile.


http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-87-page-1.html 


Another cause that can develop over a few days or several weeks is impaction from ingesting substrate. These impactions seem to build gradually and by the time you become aware there is a problem, it is usually very major. At that point and will require medical intervention by a professional. Most substrate impactions result in death without the upper digestive system being flushed out or surgical intervention to remove the impaction. Don't buy the theory that "I have used it and never had a problem", because I guarantee there are just as many that had a problem, you do not hear from as they lost their pet.

http://www.reptilerooms.com/forumtopic-14474.html 


http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=8147&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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## ReptileResort (Jul 25, 2005)

i agree with the apove was just going to type that sand can cause death if injested to much , i use wheat bran as it is very cheap , easy to clean and they can injest it and it will not kill them , plus you can use reptile tiles and carpets if not


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## newbie (Aug 18, 2005)

I agree with sezza Sand is dangerous the impactation is caused over time and although uk pet stores recomend it and they state vetrinary approved on the damn stuff go ask a specialist exotic vet who has had to treat a reptile for impactation. It is almost like offering a child a loaded gun then wondering what happened!!!!

Sand isnt even their natural enviroment their natural enviroment is rock and hard packed soil they come from arid areas and NOT desert areas. I have been keeping leopard geckos for 10 years nad have seen the damage impactation causes it isnt good.

Deadbait you say u change the enviroment for them...Why????? they come from the mountain region of Pakistan do u think they travel to go to other regions cos they are bored of rocks??? this is the most silly argument i have ever heard i cant believe that anyone would pur their pet at risk on a case of its never happened to me and never will look at it like smoking or even better that old favorite of stabbing in between your fingers with a knife, sooner or later you will hit a finger when u do you might be lucky and just scratch or more likely you will be in hospital getting sutures. Would you take that risk? if no then why make your leo take the risk?. If you must put your reptile on sand then use finely sifted play sand and even that is a risk!!!!!!!!


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