# Sight Unseen purchases...



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Just an idle question, really. Would you ever purchase a reptile sight unseen - sending the money off and waiting to see what you get? If you would, is there a maximum amount you'd spend before you'd INSIST on photographs of the animals? If you wouldn't, is it because you pick individual animals for the traits that appeal to you?

I've made a couple of sight-unseen purchases; generally I've been fairly happy though maybe not 100% thrilled.

My first sight-unseen purchase was a 1.2 of geckos from a well known breeder down south. Both females were gorgeous and exactly what I wanted - better, in fact, since the albino het blizzard girl was older than I paid for and properly sexed. The male was also older and correctly sexed... but I got a male with a kinked tailtip. Along with it, I got a note stating that the tailtip had been damaged by another animal; I have since bred Kurhah, my blizzard het albino male, and it looks like the kink is genetic and potentially a dominant gene, since he produced a significant proportion of kinked-tailtip hatchlings even with unrelated females. It's not disfiguring, and it's not a health issue - but I do feel a bit disappointed that I didn't get a choice on whether to introduce that gene, particularly for the money het blazing blizzards were going for several years ago.

I'm also going in on one of the Corn Runs - and I don't EXPECT photographs for the animals I'm getting (though I'd like 'em if I can get 'em) ... because there, I want the genetics.

But if I'm making a much bigger purchase - a single animal worth over a couple of hundred pounds - I really personally don't want to buy sight unseen. I dunno, for me a £300 animal is a pretty big purchase, let alone one triple or quadruple that price... and I would want at least one photo of the animal to make sure that THAT animal is what I want to spend so much cash on.


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

I have made several sight unseen purchaces last year and for the most part I have been very happy but I was also buying from a well known breeder so i did feel fairly safe with it.

if I was buying from a less well known breeder I think i would want pictures for sure......

Its all down to trusting the person your buying from much like buying "hets"

Its easy to say this snake is het for something but hard to prove.....


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Yeah, i did with my adult abbotts, nige knew of someone selling a few, we saw pics of two, but not the rest, i also purchased a coastal carpet python some years back a similar way

I personally wouldn't with the majority of hatchlings from serpenco on these group things, mainly cause i like to have my pick of something in the flesh, especially with something like abbotts with selecting for banding, bloodreds, stripes or motleys

Im funny like that, i dont just want any genetically correct animal, theres always something visual on a particular morph that i'd personally seek out:no1:


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## Sueg65 (Aug 14, 2006)

We bought 2 adult female boas without seeing any pics of them. To be honest it was an impulse buy and had us up at 5.00am on a sunday morning to meet the seller who was on his way to the Rodbaston show. 
I am really pleased to say that both the boas were in perfect condition and absolutely gorgeous girls we were more than happy with our purchase. 

Its not something that we would do normally as I like to see what I'm getting for my money and to make sure that its what I really want. 

Especially if it was going into the hundreds of pounds then i would want a lot of information and pics before making a final decision.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I also like to see the animal before purchasing!!:lol2:


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

I did it for the first time last year - with the Corns from the corn-run and four bearded dragons. All were from bigger breeders (I don't think I'd do it from an individual or smaller breeder) and I'd done research on both first - internet hunting for reputation and photos etc.
I had a lot of contact with the Beardie breeder for anout 5 months before the babies came home, so I was happy that he knew what I wanted. The corns were Serpenco, so I trawled their website and others for the morphs I would be getting to get an idea of what their babies have looked like in the past.
Both were brilliant - I couldn't have been more pleased with the outcome, and the beardies are looking to be the correct sexes even though that was completely on trust - there was no way I could be sure with sexing some so small as when I got them!
The Corns were small but ate perfectly and are growing very fast, colours were all I wanted and more.

Would I do it again? Don't know - it was stressful and time consuming, but it worked well for me this time...


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

yes!!!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I have done, but typically speaking I like to at least see a photo first, but I have only been disappointed once, when I paid a good price for a pair of breeding boa constrictors who arrived covered in mites, burns, not feeding, and certainly not as described... I lost a lot of money on them and it has made me a little wary in the future.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> I personally wouldn't with the majority of hatchlings from serpenco on these group things, mainly cause i like to have my pick of something in the flesh, especially with something like abbotts with selecting for banding, bloodreds, stripes or motleys
> 
> Im funny like that, i dont just want any genetically correct animal, theres always something visual on a particular morph that i'd personally seek out:no1:


That's a good point, Jay - if I were buying a Miami or a Stripe, I'd want photos and to pick the one closest to what *I* consider a perfect Miami or Stripe. I'd hate to buy a Miami sight unseen and get a tan and orange animal when what I want is steel grey and red.

Now, on the other hand, three quarters of what I'm getting aren't pattern morphs at all - Lava, Caramel and Amel, all of which are possible hets for Butter-Topaz Motley (and of course, even if the hets don't quite pan out, at least one pair will produce guaranteed hets for Topaz). The last one is a Bloodred het for a few other bits - and it's the hets I'm interested in, plus having a homozygous bloodred male in case Calcite, my Coral Snow possible het Blood isn't het. And none of 'em are Serpenco 

Royal pythons... well, I might buy something sight unseen from a big US breeder with a stellar reputation (though I'd be ASKING for photos, not getting 'em wouldn't be a dealbreaker); I'm less likely to get one sight unseen from someone who doesn't have a big reputation backing them. I just wish I could afford import costs and a big purchase from Ralph Davis Reptiles


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

I have done twice now, both recently, but only from people i trust and who have good reputations. 

Its not something i like to do, but to get what i have wanted, its something i have had to do.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

if i was buying a one-eyed, stump tailed, slack-jawed boelens python for 100GBP's....do you think i'd worry about a pic?? hahah! but yes with the etb's, i just gotta see them....it makes all the difference.....i mean appearance and health wise....one look at a pic and i'll say no instantly.....


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## snickers (Aug 15, 2007)

I've bought spiders sight unseen (difficult to see the slings even when they arrive!) but they were 10-20 quid and from sites I believe have a good reputation. A bit like buying off ebay you have to take a chance.

Buying snakes is different. I have always had pictures first. While it's not difficult to fake a picture, it is an indication that things are OK. Then I've always handed over the cash in person giving me an opportunity to back out (though that's difficult when you've driven half way across the country) if something was wrong.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I bought my Miami zig-zag, sight unseen and (apart from my 2 garter snakes bought in 1979), I've never bought sight unseen before for any of my animals.

However, I bought her from someone on here and went with my gut instinct that he was genuine and wouldn't say she had good patterning and temperament if she didn't. I sent off the money weeks before I could collect her to show my honesty that I wasn't mucking him about because I was waiting for a new viv to be built. 

I have to say that I certainly wasn't disappointed when I picked her up and I'm as happy as can be with her.

However, it's _not_ a thing I would do on a regular basis.


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## milly (Dec 25, 2007)

a friend of mine bought a tortoise of an internet site saw a general picture of the species she was going to buy, my friend was really happy with what she got and next day delivery


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

I have done it in the past and will do it in the future, I will do it with buying snakes like royals from the states, when its the genetics I want it doesn't really matter what the exact snake looks like, I know what the morph looks like and what I want it for.

If I was buying something purely for looks then I would want to see it prior to buying.


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## pankthesnake (Sep 29, 2007)

I was in the corn run last year, and will be again this year. Whether or not I do it again in the future is debatable.

Part of last years order was a pair of amel striped corns from Serpenco which, although nice snakes, had somewhat incomplete stripes.

The problem with the big breeders, especially ones like Rich at Serpenco is the amount of snakes they produce, numbering thousands per year. With this number of hatchlings there have to be some that are exceptional examples and some that are crap examples. People who purchase from these big breeders at shows etc. can pick the better examples, and no doubt the breeders themselves keep the real stunners, or exchange them with other breeders. The ones that are left are the ones that go to sight unseen purchasers, IMO.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

i have done quite a few times and will do again as long as i trust the seller i dont see a problem


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## leejay (Jul 18, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> I have done it in the past and will do it in the future, I will do it with buying snakes like royals from the states, when its the genetics I want it doesn't really matter what the exact snake looks like, I know what the morph looks like and what I want it for.
> 
> If I was buying something purely for looks then I would want to see it prior to buying.


i agree m8 got my pastel from bob clark totally unseen
was after the genetics rather than looks..he is a stunner which is a bonus
i am on the corn run next year from cathy love again unseen but have paid extra for high end ones


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

I bought my black-head pythons from Paul Harris of ukpythons.com without having ever seen them in person or seen pictures. To be fair though, Paul is one of the most respected breeders in the industry so I wasn't really taking that much of a chance. I'm 100% happy with what I got.

Stuart


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> That's a good point, Jay - if I were buying a Miami or a Stripe, I'd want photos and to pick the one closest to what *I* consider a perfect Miami or Stripe. I'd hate to buy a Miami sight unseen and get a tan and orange animal when what I want is steel grey and red.
> 
> Now, on the other hand, three quarters of what I'm getting aren't pattern morphs at all - Lava, Caramel and Amel, all of which are possible hets for Butter-Topaz Motley (and of course, even if the hets don't quite pan out, at least one pair will produce guaranteed hets for Topaz). The last one is a Bloodred het for a few other bits - and it's the hets I'm interested in, plus having a homozygous bloodred male in case Calcite, my Coral Snow possible het Blood isn't het. And none of 'em are Serpenco
> 
> Royal pythons... well, I might buy something sight unseen from a big US breeder with a stellar reputation (though I'd be ASKING for photos, not getting 'em wouldn't be a dealbreaker); I'm less likely to get one sight unseen from someone who doesn't have a big reputation backing them. I just wish I could afford import costs and a big purchase from Ralph Davis Reptiles


 
Yeah, i think if i was buying a butter, caramel or even an ultramel, something like that, i'd buy blind, especially from someone like serpenco, but a definite no-no for me on selective bred morphs, motleys, stripes or where the background or saddle colours were important

I had to wait over a year to find the right male crimson, and thats a cheaper morph i could have got anywhere, but not one id be happy with, and my choice of bloodreds is even stricter:lol2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I have bought far more snakes without seeing them than i have with pictures.

I think this comes down to what level you're on and what sort of animals we're talking about.

Think on, 95% of wholesale sales are done without pictures.
Also, if you order something random like a locality retic from an exporter then the chances are you wont see it until it's landed in the UK.

I allways had a problem distinguishing between the trade mentality and the private mentality. For me, as a rule, one normal corn was the same as another. It's only when you get to things that are different every time (ie chameleons or even common boas for that matter) that pictures actually start to matter.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> I have bought far more snakes without seeing them than i have with pictures.
> 
> I think this comes down to what level you're on and what sort of animals we're talking about.
> 
> ...


 
common boas different everytime? and corns not???:lol2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> common boas different everytime? and corns not???:lol2:


:Na_Na_Na_Na:Sorry, should have said "significant" differences every time.:whistling2:


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> :Na_Na_Na_Na:Sorry, should have said "significant" differences every time.:whistling2:


same thing:lol2: common boas, what shade of greys important hey?:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

captaincaveman said:


> same thing:lol2: common boas, what shade of greys important hey?:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


We could be at this all night :no1:


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> We could be at this all night :no1:


 
yup:lol2:


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

I have mostly bought on collection.
Though i have bought a lavender motley unseen, extremely dissapointing! to say the least; fairly nice looking but ...well..... dissapointing.
My only other dissapointing unseen buy was my Fire which died not long after delivery. The fire was one out of 8 in the unseen delivery, the other 7 are perfect.
All in all i've made 2 unseen purchases, one bad and one 0.125 bad. i cant moan ... its a risk.


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## lukendaniel (Jan 10, 2007)

at end of day if u buy unseen without sounding 2 harsh thats up what u get.have been 2 look and buy things without pics first, but if i go somewere 2 buy it and its quite far wether i like it or not i would prob still buy otherwise would think it was a waste of time and money lol


daniel


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## Lostcorn (Dec 12, 2005)

I have bought unseen , but only from people with good reputations.
I have also bought snakes that I "picked out"

Last year I bought 17 Hatchlings , I lost two.

One I picked out and one bought unseen.

If you trust the seller then go for it.

If you dont , then ?


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

Lostcorn said:


> I have bought unseen , but only from people with good reputations.
> I have also bought snakes that I "picked out"
> 
> Last year I bought 17 Hatchlings , I lost two.
> ...


well the only problem with the big sellers from the US for example, they will have weak striped stripes and partial motley motleys, unless they cull them for aesthetics, i'd be dissapointed at purchasing a butter stripe for instance that had a poor stripe. Someones got to get them:lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

lukendaniel said:


> at end of day if u buy unseen without sounding 2 harsh thats up what u get.have been 2 look and buy things without pics first, but if i go somewere 2 buy it and its quite far wether i like it or not i would prob still buy otherwise would think it was a waste of time and money lol


That's my problem precisely, Luke - because I don't drive, going anywhere to collect an animal is a pretty big production - I have to arrange a ride (difficult - our only friend with a car lives in Wigan and is not available at a moment's notice) or take the train. Train fare's not always cheap (I once spent £80 in train fares to pick up £20 of snake) so I'm already thinking "I've spent X just to come SEE this animal... " 

If the person has to pick you up from the train station, you've got another kind of pressure too - help, I'm in a totally new place, and if this goes utterly pear-shaped, I don't know how to get back to the station! You don't WANT to say "well, actually, that animal is not what I wanted to spend £300 on... it doesn't look anything like what I had in mind."

Add to that, if you're going to collect an animal you're likely to have cash in hand rather than paying by Paypal or credit card - so there's going to be an immense amount of pressure to just hand over the money and pay for the snake so you can get home even if it's not 100% what you want.

Which is why, though I might buy sight unseen for money I can afford to throw away (I wouldn't say I can afford to throw away more than £120 on a single animal - if I spend £50 on something and it's almost what I want or not quite what I want, and it isn't the genetics I was buying, it was the appearance, at least it's not that much money down the hole and it's potentially recoverable if someone ELSE likes him/her)... when it's a significant amount of money, I want to KNOW that when I get to where I'm going I'm going to be happy with what I get.

Having something delivered is another kettle of fish - you've paid for the animals sight unseen, you've paid to have them transported to you... and when they arrive, if you're not happy you can hardly say "No, sorry, this isn't what I wanted at all..." because there's not much the transporter can do about it. No matter what, you've lost at least the cost of the delivery.

And when you're thinking of making a substantial investment into an animal - as in "more than a month's wages" - I don't think I would personally do it without photos unless you really, really, really trust the seller to provide the genetics you want. For me, that kind of trust would take prior positive transactions - or a lot of people, at least one of whom being somene whose opinions I respect and trust, who are vouching for the seller. There are some folks on here who I would quite happily buy something expensive from sight unseen because I know I'm going to get something I like.

Of course, in this day and age of digital cameras and even mobile phone cameras... how hard is it to get a quick photo of something you want to sell? It doesn't have to be ART... just representative of the animal you're selling  Granted, if you've got thousands of animals you're selling and thousands of enquiries daily about them, yes, I suppose sight-unseen purchases are the easy option because you don't have to show the people who aren't picking based on appearances as well as genetics what they're getting. I can guarantee that if/when I start selling royal morphs a photo will be made available to anyone who asks if not immediately when I place the advertisement stating the animal is available.


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