# Marine fish tank newbie help



## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi all, looking for advice in regards to marine setups. I have kept tropical fish without any major problems up till a couple of years ago but my partner would love a marine setup. She loves all the different couloir fish and corals etc but her like me is afraid of exactly how hard it is to start and maintain one. We have been looking at the nice but expensive aqua oak range but you then need to buy everything separate. Is it a lot easier to buy one like the fluval Sea M90 (she likes the wood effect finish tanks) as it has everything built in? What is a checklist of everything I need? So many questions I know but any help would be fantastic. Thanks in advance.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

You need to decide what you want to be keeping before you get your tank. A fish only system requires less set-up. The filter needs to be good, but not over the top and the lights are only there to illuminate the fish. If you want to get corals the filter needs to be beefed up and the lights need to be upgraded to be compatible.

The only major upgrade from a freshwater tropical to a marine tropical is the addition of salt and a protein skimmer. The skimmer removes proteinaceous waste before it hits the filters and keeps the levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate to really low levels that marines need.


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

Fargle said:


> You need to decide what you want to be keeping before you get your tank. A fish only system requires less set-up. The filter needs to be good, but not over the top and the lights are only there to illuminate the fish. If you want to get corals the filter needs to be beefed up and the lights need to be upgraded to be compatible.
> 
> The only major upgrade from a freshwater tropical to a marine tropical is the addition of salt and a protein skimmer. The skimmer removes proteinaceous waste before it hits the filters and keeps the levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate to really low levels that marines need.


Hi forgot to add that. We would love to have coral and fish in there. If it was just an aqua oak tank then and I bought everything separate would i need to drill holes in the glass as I wouldn't want to do that. What exactly is a sump? Seen a lot of tanks without a sump is it essential? Thanks


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

Sumps are smaller tanks that sit under the main one and contain all the filtration/heating etc. It's a way on increasing the volume of the system and hiding all the ugly equipment away, leaving the display tank clear of clutter and equipment. By no means essential, just nicer.

I've just gone and had a brief look at the tanks you mentioned and from a quick look it might be that the Fluval model is better for your needs. It comes with everything out of the box so you won't have lots of umm-ing and ahh-ing about what to equip it with. A word of caution though. The system is fairly small and the components they include will _just_ about keep up with the stocking level. You won't be able to stock this tank very much. 
If you were to go for the maidenhead range you will have more decisions to make regarding lighting/filtration but that gives you more freedom to slightly over-spec everything and enable you to get a few more things in the tank.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to give you a definite answer (and be wary of people who do). It's for you to look at and see which is better for you and how much time and effort you're willing to put into the set up and maintenance.


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

Fargle said:


> Sumps are smaller tanks that sit under the main one and contain all the filtration/heating etc. It's a way on increasing the volume of the system and hiding all the ugly equipment away, leaving the display tank clear of clutter and equipment. By no means essential, just nicer.
> 
> I've just gone and had a brief look at the tanks you mentioned and from a quick look it might be that the Fluval model is better for your needs. It comes with everything out of the box so you won't have lots of umm-ing and ahh-ing about what to equip it with. A word of caution though. The system is fairly small and the components they include will _just_ about keep up with the stocking level. You won't be able to stock this tank very much.
> If you were to go for the maidenhead range you will have more decisions to make regarding lighting/filtration but that gives you more freedom to slightly over-spec everything and enable you to get a few more things in the tank.
> ...


Thanks very much for the advice. Been to maidenhead aquatics today and was gutted to hear I could only have a maximum of 3-4 fish in the biggest all in one fluval tank they had which is the 131l. So now not to sure what to do. Feel as though a all built in one would be the best for a few tears while I build up my experience but would have liked around 8-10 fish in the tank and all the corals etc.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I have the Fluval M90 as my first tank, exactly for the reason I didn't want to analyse every possible equipment choice and try and put it together. Plus, it is a nice looking tank and stand.

I've currently got 5 fish in it: two ocellaris clownfish, a firefish, a royal gramma, and an algae blenny. There is a monaco shrimp, emerald crabs, hermit crabs, and turbo snails.

It wasn't long before the upgrade itch kicked in though. The first was an auto top up system. The tank is open topped and the evaporation requires constant topping up. You could do it manually at least a couple times a week, preferably more.

Also the open top nature cost me a fish. One of the original clownfish jumped and I only found it perhaps a week later. Since then I got the Simply Aquaria DIY mesh lid to go on top and prevent further jumpers.

The supplied skimmer is also a pain point for many owners. It hums/vibrates and it is quite annoying and penetrating. I replaced it with a Tunze 9004 and that's much quieter. The original Fluval skimmer has now been moved into a 2nd tank I started in the kitchen where the noise is less of a problem.

There's more that could be tinkered with, but I'll stop there on the kit


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

GlassWalker said:


> I have the Fluval M90 as my first tank, exactly for the reason I didn't want to analyse every possible equipment choice and try and put it together. Plus, it is a nice looking tank and stand.
> 
> I've currently got 5 fish in it: two ocellaris clownfish, a firefish, a royal gramma, and an algae blenny. There is a monaco shrimp, emerald crabs, hermit crabs, and turbo snails.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for the insight, so overall I gather it is not great. Would you be kind to put a picture of it up? Cheeky I know. My partner didn't really the fact she could only have limited fish in it so she would love to see a picture. Thanks


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

Here it is... you can also compare it to the shots shortly after I got it here. In this shot the two clownfish and royal gramma are visible. The algae blenny usually is on or around the rocks, and the firefish always seems to go to be earlier than the others.

The big coral on top middle is pulsing xenia. I love watching that even if it does little other than sway in the current and "pulse" like its name says, where the end bits close and open. It is spreading, which is good and bad as it can take over.

Bottom middle is something I can never remember the name of. Something like devil's finger, or devil's hand. That doesn't do much but is growing.

The bright green patch you can see bottom left is Briareum asbestinum, not to be confused with green star polyps. These really glow under actinic light. I'm also warned this can take over everything too.

Too small to be made out, I also have yellow colony polyps and buttons just behind that.

The pale green patch bottom mid-left are mushrooms. These also just grow and glow too.

I also have a bunch of random zoas, but they're too small to see at this scale.

Likewise not clearly visible are some candy canes on the higher rock to the right, where I put it to be closer to the light. These are a bit harder to keep, and while I do like them, I'm thinking perhaps this tank isn't the best one for it to be in long term. I now run two more marine tanks so there will be some stock juggling in the future I think.

I think I might be overdue doing a new tank pic thread... there's so much more detail than can be seen at this scale. But that will be tomorrow as the timer on the lights just went off!


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

GlassWalker said:


> image
> 
> Here it is... you can also compare it to the shots shortly after I got it here. In this shot the two clownfish and royal gramma are visible. The algae blenny usually is on or around the rocks, and the firefish always seems to go to be earlier than the others.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for that. Read that thread about your tank from start to finish and a hell of a lot of it is jiberish to me haha. Installed a DI unit almost immediately after buying the tank? What's one of them, so much to ask you. Thanks very much for your replies.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

go big and go slow...


... a little at a time and room to work... and room to make mistakes.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

On DI unit... I'll go back a step. Marine tanks, obviously, run on salt water. Add salt to pure water, and you're good to go. Trouble is tap water isn't usually pure enough. Most marine keepers will either buy and run a Reverse Osmosis water filter (RO), or just buy RO water from fish stores. Carrying large amounts of water isn't my idea of fun, so I got my own unit. Basic RO filters in good order will remove 95%+ of whatever goes in. That last few % or so is where De-Ionisation resin (DI) comes in. This will remove the rest and you're left with near enough pure water. You can find many arguments to how much impurity is ok, so I wouldn't say it was essential. In particular, if your tap water has low nitrates and phosphates, then you could probably do without DI.


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks very much. So much information to take in. The more the better though as I am a total beginner with a marine setup. What's a good test kit to get if I intend on getting corals and fish? Thanks


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

go fish only at first... hardy fish and see how it goes... a great protein skimmer... big filtration... maybe a uv sterilizer, they can be pricey...


your first tank should be a learning tank... where you can make mistakes and learn... fine tanks are kept by folks who have practiced...


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

HABU said:


> go fish only at first... hardy fish and see how it goes... a great protein skimmer... big filtration... maybe a uv sterilizer, they can be pricey...
> 
> 
> your first tank should be a learning tank... where you can make mistakes and learn... fine tanks are kept by folks who have practiced...


Just live rock an fish is it? Corals can come later?


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## Cosmic Coconut (Mar 28, 2014)

I set up my first ever fish tank about 3 weeks ago and went straight for marine! Bought the Fluval Edge 43L and it's a nifty looking thing and its a nano tank! Bought the pre made salt water from my LFS and also about 7KG of live rock. It's got the lights and filter included and what's good is the live rock also works as your filter and as long as you keep on top of things with regular water changes then everything should be ok. After about 2 weeks of it cycling I got the all clear to start adding the clean up crew so I got some hermits and turbo snails who have quite happily been cleaning away for about a week. 

As long as you do as much research as you can and take your time then I would say go for it.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

I went fish only at first. I only started adding coral much later. With hindsight, I don't think soft corals are more difficult than fish. UV is not essential by any means. I don't run any in my first marine tank, but I am experimenting with it in my 2nd but I couldn't say it is helping.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

SLDavies said:


> Just live rock an fish is it? Corals can come later?


unlike rivers and lakes... most reef habitats are clean... and have little fluctuations like a stream may have... reef fish are adapted to certain conditions that never change....


fresh water fish are more forgiving to changes... typical reef fish are not...

live rock can pollute a tank and already stressed fish will die....


it's easy though to keep marine fish and whathaveyou....

a good freshwater keeper that can keep most any fish and plants will be a natural when transitioning to salt water... he just has to tighten his game and not be sloppy...


cured live rock and corals will be there... but get them damsels and clown fish going good first...


master one aspect at a time...:2thumb:


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

Cosmic Coconut said:


> I set up my first ever fish tank about 3 weeks ago and went straight for marine! Bought the Fluval Edge 43L and it's a nifty looking thing and its a nano tank! Bought the pre made salt water from my LFS and also about 7KG of live rock. It's got the lights and filter included and what's good is the live rock also works as your filter and as long as you keep on top of things with regular water changes then everything should be ok. After about 2 weeks of it cycling I got the all clear to start adding the clean up crew so I got some hermits and turbo snails who have quite happily been cleaning away for about a week.
> 
> As long as you do as much research as you can and take your time then I would say go for it.


Thanks for the advice


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## SLDavies (Jun 24, 2013)

HABU said:


> unlike rivers and lakes... most reef habitats are clean... and have little fluctuations like a stream may have... reef fish are adapted to certain conditions that never change....
> 
> 
> fresh water fish are more forgiving to changes... typical reef fish are not...
> ...


So fish before even the cured live rock?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

SLDavies said:


> So fish before even the cured live rock?


buy a lama or a tiger before you start a zoo...

it's not about your tank or what's in it... it's about what's in your head...


what you know and have learned is what will make you a success... water chemistry... learn the language before anything else... fail... often... failure teaches you... 

only fools rush into things...


wanting to keep anything that may be exacting, isn't about what you keep but rather who you are and what you know....

having a stradivarius violin doesn't make you a good violin player...

be a good musician and you can make music with just the barest of instruments...

learn the chemistry, the fish... the gear... the brushes, the canvasses, the paints... experiment... make mistakes... and one day...


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

HABU said:


> unlike rivers and lakes... most reef habitats are clean... and have little fluctuations like a stream may have... reef fish are adapted to certain conditions that never change....
> 
> 
> fresh water fish are more forgiving to changes... typical reef fish are not...
> ...





SLDavies said:


> So fish before even the cured live rock?


 no. the purpose of live rock is to filter the tank- you need the tank fully cycled before adding fish. therefore add live rock, test for ammonia & nitrite until they read zero, _then _add the first fish.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

one step at a time!:no1:











my old tank... master this and you can do anything...


(i know, it's crap...)


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## Jennyf (Apr 6, 2014)

I've been keeping marines for years and currently have a 250 litre reef tank running the last 4/5 years. 
I've kept everything from sps/lps, sort corals, anemones, I've bred clownfish, banggai cardinal, pyjama cardinal and recently chromis. Been there done that got the t shirt ... However it's hard. Very hard, I kept my first marine as fish only with live rock and didn't go into a reef until I had 2/3 years experience. 

Slow ands ready wins the race, start off with quality live rock, don't cheap out this is your foundation. Once the rock has cured and cycle, add a clean up crew - your snails, hermits, urchins, shrimp,etc, after a few weeks then add your first fish - avoid damsels, dotty backs, pseudochromis, groupers, as they're very aggressive and will take over a tank very quickly due to this aggression.

A pair of ocellaris or percula clownfish is a good start royal gramma, cardinal fish (banngai, pyjama are the most common), dart fish, gobies, bennies, fire fish and chromis are good starter fish that shouldn't grow up and kill everyone else.

After a few months then think about corals, you need good light, good water movement, a skimmer and ideally very stable water conditions. Even a slight drop in salinity will cause the corals to become unhappy and not open. 

Any questions feel free to ask. Like I've said I've been there done the through good times and very bad times! I've had everything from cyano and diatom breakouts, white spot wipeouts, leeching live rock/live sand, fungus, fin rot, worm and parasite infestation, mantis shrimp hunting, bristle worm hunting .... Basically I've been through most highs and lows you will ever encounter with keeping marines!


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