# Joe's Frog Room Thread



## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

I've decided to do this as i place for me to whack all my random mumblings into (i've got too many random threads) and post up pics of my new 'full time' builds.

So today i finally got off my bum and started siliconing my cork background into the viv (after a spot of rock cutting, thinking and "ahhh fudge it, i've got fake rocks and a ton of wood, my leucs will love that alone, stop over doing it"). so i've had the frog room sealed off, the room down the corridor containing the viv sealed off, no smell of silicone in said corridor, BOOM. 

the cork finishes is about 5cm from the top of the viv, so i'm thinking of finishing this with the ol silicone covered in dirt technique. this is my first time doing such with silicone as in the past i've always used gorilla glue

also, after a nightmare with my mates stag do to amsterdam (i dont do flying), i am going to be in alkmaar for a week at the end of october


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

get some pics up then!!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

will put some pics up soon J.

question time guys, i've carved up some expanding foam and wondering about hte silicone eco process, in the past i've used gorilla glue mixed with eco earth and then coverd in more earth. also my silicone is clear, should i order some brown ?


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

I used brown silicone, many, many tubes. Applied liberally and just pressed on completely dry Eco earth, it does need to be very dry. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

so here's how the "Leuc" viv is getting on, just these last bits to silicone and then it'll be time to plant the gal up. i'll be getting a few plants from bens jungle. any plant advice is welcome, placement etc.....also 95% this is actually going to be a viv for mysties lol


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

You`ll probably find a good selection of plants at Baks Joe.
No point sending off for some if you can get all you need there :2thumb:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

there's a few plants on the continent you cant get here, but yeah i'll be raiding baks i was thinking of a nice tendril plant split into those two tubes at the back there (cissus amazonica or a small pep) or even the cissus on the front branch, use oakleaf ficus at the back and sides, possibly a macgravia here and there.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

....and i'll be picking up 5 mysties come sunday lol just converted a 90l tub from wilko (the rest wernt so tall) using good ol gorilla glue and some curtain net i bought for my false bottom. quarantine em for a lil as i get plants going for a month or so


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I am so glad I am going to baks poor. I am picking up a viv, but if I had some spare cash I would definitely be picking up something to fill it with.:lol2:

Are you definitely coming to baks Joe?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

95% might be going leeds vs sheff wed day bfre


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey if you have empty spaces to fill I`ll sell you some more broms lol.



Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

nothing ordered plant wise just yet, i get paid next satuday


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

frogman955 said:


> Hey if you have empty spaces to fill I`ll sell you some more broms lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


i would, but if you read, i am very very poor atm. unless you are giving them at a existing customers mates "super low" rates then i am going to have to pass lol.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> nothing ordered plant wise just yet, i get paid next satuday


That's okay Joe I`ll cya on sunday :2thumb: :lol2:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

usually these kinda things fall on the last week of pay month, somehow the last two have fallen on the day after payday, think ade's been looking at my schedule


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

He`s never said anything to me Joe, honest.
But, it wouldn`t surprise me :lol2:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

after doing my best to kill myself today the five little guys are in their massive rub atm, pictures will follow tomorrow as its been a long day and last nights "i'll have half a pint of that cider and fill the other half up with that one"


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Got some lovely broms here that I`ve just received, just for you Joe:lol2:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

aha i will be perusing away next sunday indeed


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Don`t worry Joe.
If you walk around all day with your hands in your pockets, I`ll understand :whistling2:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i've got myself handcuffs sewn in


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> i've got myself handcuffs sewn in



Haha I like it :2thumb:.


Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Hey dude grats on 'em

show me the pics bi-atch:gasp:. Joe I'm totally too old to wait buddy,need pics and chuck some grats about to you and J

or it DIDN'T happen:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:

nice plant selection there kiddo

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

These guys love a climb, two the other day were right up the top of this tub, its easily 70cm high lol, and this morning when i opened the tub two of them were visible and then the others came out to see me :2thumb:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ha ha here we go game on grats to both of you J's:no1: just the best of luck

Joe listen buddy gonna make ya think: victory: The nitrogen cycle,froogy poo..nitrogenous waste, broken down by feeders/custodians....taken up by what? the thing that converts CO2 to O2,cheep cheerful low light loving,called a what?

Bro I made this mistake It didn't cost me,but me old mucker Ron slapped me with something I just simply over looked. He didn't know,to my shame I didn't thank( possibly) The post I scimmed late one night was to someone else I've never really dwelt upon it ,just said to myself how did I miss this and acted the next day. Even in a very simple tub we can throw together an ecosystem. a good few custodians a cheep sub that drains well and that other life form that brings it all together. 

THANKS RON !!

Joe,you know my passion for this stuff,better than most maybe,but as always i don't know it all, just a beginner,but learn from my mistakes, my failings,where I go back and reappraise,because of another's wisdom ha my friend taught me this:notworthy::notworthy:

It's so easy to miss the simple things mate,in this mayhem I call life,I don't think I mentioned this to you and should have,sorry kiddo 

LMAO

Stick a bloody plant in there


good luck

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yup, i was hoping i could get away until baks to get a plant or two to pop in there.

edit, oredering wise, nowt will be here by friday/saturday, and i may well be setting off friday. would i be okay to trim some pothos and give it a wash ?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

got some from dartfrog on special before 1pm delivery, so prob here thursday


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> yup, i was hoping i could get away until baks to get a plant or two to pop in there.
> 
> edit, oredering wise, nowt will be here by friday/saturday, and i may well be set ting off friday. would i be okay to trim some pothos and give it a wash ?


ye ah mate,:2thumb:
pl ease forgive I don't know how long they are gonna be in there Joe,obviously al l these things take time to get going,no harm will be done mate,just wanted t o make a you ponder this as I said I missed it early on,inch plant is also great f or this mate

all the luck with them mate:2thumb:

Stu

ps sorry bro(just read your last post) I didn't mean to make you jump like that my humble apologies kiddo late night post trying to help,come see me at baks I'll make that right with a nice ficusy thang...my bad:bash:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

aha no its fine Stu, hopefully here tomorrow and i can get em in. i got a sunny ficus, a pothos and a birds nest fern.

also Stu, dont know if you've ever seen this but i got put this way for peruvian plants to look out for Biotopic Design - articles


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i've got myself handcuffs sewn in


Why doesn't *that* surprise me? :whistling2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)




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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

That tub is huge  you'll lose them in there lol


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

right, this is where we are at now with le mystie tank, got the little dam at the front sorted out, think i'm pretty much ready for planting once the silicone is gone off. however, the one thing that has puzzled me for awhile regarding the top edge of the cork background, it's siliconed on and i've sealed the sides up as you can see by close up. i am however curious as to your thoughts on this 'finish' i was thinking using tiny shingling plants up there to fill it in or just let the ficus do its work lol

anyways would really appreciate your guys thoughts about the top 'lip'

joe


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Joe you mention letting the ficus do its work.
If you mean the green and white one in your tub above that is an aggressive one in that it`s roots might cause some damage to the cork at the top.
You might be better with a more gentle one like oak leaf which has smaller and less destructive roots.
It is slow growing till the roots get going but you could probably train it to go across the cork and cover the bare bits that concern you.
I`m no expert on these plants and am only going by what I`ve experienced.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah it'd be oak leaf up there Mike, much prefer that, or cissus rotundfolia which is native to peru or peperomia prostrata, im currently photoshopping something together lol


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Pep prostrata (sp?) is quite an aggressive grower that trails, it doesn't really climb. 

Bromeliad Aechmea Nudicaulis Live Vivarium Terrarium Plant | eBay

This seller had Aechmea Nudicaulis for sale, the brom that mysties are found on in the wild. I say had as I just bought 2. You might want to message him.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cheers callum, i need trailers aswell, but thanks for heads up on it. and oi, you bugger ! lol

like i said, i may even fill it in with silicone and eco earth, just wanted opinions. basically because of size etc i'd have had to buy a fair few sheets to make this reach the top and have had a load of cut off's laying about


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

feelings on Muehlenbeckia complexa guys ? i was even thinking of 'mind your own business' i'm thinking more along the lines of smaller plants, and cissus amazonica, because i really really like this plant


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Muehlenbeckia complexa looks like what I`ve got in a couple of my vivs.
If it is, then it just grows wild lol.



Mike


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Yea, complexa isn't really a shingling plant. It looks very nice and it is easy to prune. I think Ben's jungle had a Peru marcgravia?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

1. a trailing plant of some sort, cissus amazonica, peperomia, muehlenbeckia 

2+3 i'm thinking this will be the place for some broms, or even a nice trailing plant as the broms i need may require planting in soil or being on the larger side.

4. this looks hidden away but isn't that bad, maybe some ficus or fern in here

5+6 again mainly thinking ferns in these spots, maybe a nice pilea, aluminum plant etc or even some cryptanthus

7. again is another spot to put a nice trailing plant or even a small bromeliad

there are a few spots all over from broms or plants to be snuck in. also on the lower ground i will be placing some sensitive plants to give some ground cover and im told they grow in peru almost like grass


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

A dart set-up (with good drainage) might be a good place to try out a maidenhair fern, actually- they love warmth and humidity, but hate sitting in water.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i am determined to go for some mind your own business


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i am determined to go for some mind your own business


I've only ever had any luck with it in cool tanks with good lighting.


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## Dark Valentino (Mar 15, 2013)

Meefloaf said:


> i am determined to go for some mind your own business


Ah good old Soleirolia, I love the stuff, Grows like wild fire if you get it right, rots overnight if you get it wrong :whistling2:

I've found Good light, Good drainage and Good ventilation to be key if you want to do well with it.

I always plant it next to the vents in my vivs and it does well.
RETF viv, It's covered a lot of the vent already...




I also planted a little clump in the background awhile back, seems to be doing ok but not great.




In the Dart viv It's booming!



: victory:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cheers for that Zac


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> Pep prostrata (sp?) is quite an aggressive grower that trails, it doesn't really climb.
> 
> Bromeliad Aechmea Nudicaulis Live Vivarium Terrarium Plant | eBay
> 
> This seller had Aechmea Nudicaulis for sale, the brom that mysties are found on in the wild. I say had as I just bought 2. You might want to message him.


Hmmm nudicollis,

Hey buddy pondering already huh:notworthy: Calz Joe,I've been aware of the link between this brom and mysties for yonks have a dig through here lads

Dendrobates.org - Excidobates mysteriosus

I'd just ask Richie how big this variety of nudicollis will get Calz,I suspect it's from equador and around 40cm,but some of these varieties of this species are huge. It's difficult to get a perspective on the actual broms pictured where the mysties live,but I suspect a couple of foot across,or larger on the cliff.


Also of note is Twormy and Browne refer to two different shapes of broms,much wider on the cliff,narrow and taller in the trees,my thanks lads that had never sunk in before and begs a simple question are both the same species,or even varieties? I need to dig a bit more,into this aspect of these broms,for myself,but proper thanks for making me go back guys.

Good luck both with your respective quests to keep this enchanting little frog they are so special,

take care

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

BTW Stu, regarding deposit sites i was thinking of where 1 is and the adjoining branch that goes out just below the little 4 in the numbered pic. with number 1 the tube also has an offshoot ontop so i could slip a cannister in the main bit and then get a nice little plant in on the opening on the top of the tube

also i've got some spare cork panel, i think i may well use this to fill it in after all, should've done it at the bottom but eh oh

also the brom i sent you in pm, that site tells you the expected average size of the fully grown


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Stu if memory serves me the broms on the cliff are about 4 1/2 ft across.
The brom Joe is looking at can grow up to 3ft tall.



Mike


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I was talking to Joe last night about broms. I think for a brom to get roughly 2ft across it would take about 3 years. In that time it will probably pup. If it starts to get too big I will remove it and replace with a pup.the Hannibal lector brom I have is meant to big a bigger brom but I have it in my pum viv and it hasn't grown nearly as much as some of the others.

Stu, I was going to put the nudicollis higher up and maybe some kind of vriesea into the substrate. To simulate the wild a tiny bit. But seeing as my viv is only 50cm high bad not a tree the nudicollis will still seem like a terrestrial brom to them


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> I was talking to Joe last night about broms. I think for a brom to get roughly 2ft across it would take about 3 years. In that time it will probably pup. If it starts to get too big I will remove it and replace with a pup.the Hannibal lector brom I have is meant to big a bigger brom but I have it in my pum viv and it hasn't grown nearly as much as some of the others.
> 
> Stu, I was going to put the nudicollis higher up and maybe some kind of vriesea into the substrate. To simulate the wild a tiny bit. But seeing as my viv is only 50cm high bad not a tree the nudicollis will still seem like a terrestrial brom to them


Mike cheers dude:2thumb:

Joe depo sites for egg laying,dad will carry tads and pop them in the front ditch,maybe use those big ol broms,but not having broms of size in our viv,they don't use them much, for me,other than climbing on them

Calz yup that seems feasable,I use a big ol brom's pups for the redheads mate,Neo somitt marginata:lol2::lol2::lol2:,it's a beast for holding water. There is no way I could use the adult plant though. The oophaga seem to nail the broms faster than I can grow them too large in a viv anyway:bash: 

But both of you go for it guys,it's wonderful seeing this level of care and thought going into a froggy home,

bloody inspiring lads:no1:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

as usual, and after some interesting chatting with callum, i am thinking away to myself as i usually do, overly sometimes. the importance of draining on one's 'planters' i have used mainly cork tubes for mine, and in some cases used a net cup at the entrance, now the cork tubes tend to have minute holes in the ridges, the plan is also to use bark chippings to fill the cork tubes also. 

im looking at making some rock planters for a viv, basically making ridges in the top of the 'rock' to place soil and the plant in so it looks like its growing in a crevice in the rock. one other method was creating a kinda bowl so the water filters down to the bottom and escapes via a bit of aquarium tubing. the idea is that this will be blocked up as i rockoflex and epoxy it, and then un popped and sealed etc. i've seen plenty of builds where folk dont use such drainage methods at all and was wondering was it 100% needed or could i maybe get away with possibly angle the run off of water via the crevice etc

p.s basically i'm really tempted to do something akin to this for my mysties (i know stu lol) minus the water part, or even creating a crevice in a rock face, again i'd like the plants to not look, well, planted lol


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

I really like that tree!


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

there's some f#ckers out there who have the knowledge and products to help us all create such things, but are unwilling to share such with us


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

seems to be the way it goes. Ive asked a few pages on facebook and have witnessed you do the same to no reply. I get that some of them are businesses. But..yeah


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Liam Yule said:


> seems to be the way it goes. Ive asked a few pages on facebook and have witnessed you do the same to no reply. I get that some of them are businesses. But..yeah


that company in france ? lol i get it, i even said that, i simple, sorry but we cant really say. thing is, alot of them are in the states or far flung countries, how is telling me or giving me a bit of advice on what products to use going to make me turn into some global viv background monster, i admire their work, its custom and costs a bomb and is in another country, i have no means of getting my hands on it really, so take a minute out, help a guy out, but its more about their precious egos and they dont want to see someone else perhaps 'compete' with their super duper awesomness etc etc


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

You`ll probably find that the original tree had a mould taken from it and then it was cast in resin before being painted.


Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> there's some f#ckers out there who have the knowledge and products to help us all create such things, but are unwilling to share such with us


Hey bro ,how ya doing.

Joe I get the frustration,I really do mate,but I see the other side of this one on a huge level. As you guys know,I make false rocks,I do it in a certain way. I guess I pretty much went there and worked the bugger out that I use. No one helped me kiddo. Me being me I spent time taking pictures of every step I could and the tools and products,laid it all out there,for the next guy. all good all cool. 

But mate I'm say somewhere between 100 and hell I dunno 300 pm's on this now say 3 years on,on a few specialist froggy fora,each pm answered is probably 10-15mins to answer,'cause I'm a slow old sod,that's my bad. But I utterly get why folks just say no. Even with a method given,as best I'm able to, the pick up,or maybe fallout is very time consuming. It also becomes somewhat tedious over time,it's the same thing over and over. It's not quite like talking about a froggy issue or a viv conundrum,where each and every one is different. It's exactly the same thing being spelled out,over and over and over. So I really see the other side of this one. If that guy also wanted to sell his custom backgrounds,ha we can all think of worse ways of making a living,then not only is he giving his graft away,but also a huge amount of his time,over the long haul.

It's tricky bro,this hobby relies on someone going there making mistakes,with not always cheep materials and passing it forwards,the kindness shown to me I try to pass forwards. I ain't no different to anyone else here ,we all do this,it's cool helping someone and maybe their frogs as one gets time,or learns a bit more chuck it at the next guy:2thumb:

Yup def two sides to this one Joe, it's not quite so cut and dried even if you chuck the whole method out there. You guys know if I can, I'll find time to chuck a thought at ya,you'ld do the same back!! It's the joy of our hobby,we try to help each other,it's wicked,but I also see exactly why folks keep stum too.

Take care

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

but if the knowledge of methods and products that create these kind of exhibition grade stuff was more readily available and more people used it, passed it on, stickied a thread on a forum, then the overall amount of the pm bombardment would diminish, surely ?

i know where you are coming from Stu, because i remember once accidentally mentioning i had orange woodlice lol and i got a fair few pms about them etc and made a point of not saying where i got them from lol.

I know craft wise, i understood it, but when i asked on dendroboard a few times, or seen others asking hte same questions even in the threads, the HOBBYIST arnt sharing, and thats the bit that sticks. i know i can personally go and pin most info from your thread (ask liam lol) you've written it down when doing or asked, wether it be the rocks or the culturing, it's in there, you've actually put it out there into the world. I get the bombardment part even with it in there people will still just pm. but if someone asks on your thread, ill ping them to the pages they need. On dendro and on facebook, the comments are usually "foam, cutter, grout" "what did you use to get such a nice finish?" "epoxy.". i get that people making money out of it might not want to give away their 'trade secrets' dont blame em, but there is a general kind of vibe i get in some instances that its more "but im the one who makes the pretty vivs, if i tell you mine no longer the prettiest", ego steps in for me, pure ego.

I'll help anybody out, mainly through pointing them to threads, pages or photos of stuff that helped me. all i want to know is what materials are safe to use basically, i'll work the method out, but even then its like pulling teeth sometimes, and tbh i've given up even bothering asking people how they've done something


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> but if the knowledge of methods and products that create these kind of exhibition grade stuff was more readily available and more people used it, passed it on, stickied a thread on a forum, then the overall amount of the pm bombardment would diminish, surely ?
> 
> i know where you are coming from Stu, because i remember once accidentally mentioning i had orange woodlice lol and i got a fair few pms about them etc and made a point of not saying where i got them from lol.
> 
> ...


Joe the first paragraph ^^^,my experience is the exact oposite,I agree it should be the other way round, like you say. But the real world experience is that trying to show a method brings more pm's.

Buddy some folks are just too shy to post openly,or don't to appear a fool I suppose,might be part of it. Some just want it given on a plate CBA to do the work it's just easier to ask and wait for someone to help,than spend hours reading then buying expensive materials and getting it wrong.

From the rock maker's point of view,we live in a look after numero uno society mate,we are almost conditioned towards this. So I guess that guy thinks I did the reading I spent the money, I failed and then came back until it was sorted,why give it away.

I dunno buddy,I'm being partially hypothetical here, it's a cool discussion to have though. but having real world experience of this one,I think more than ego is at play kiddo

Joe,this is the problem with fake rocks and making backgrounds in general as I see it,we are scared witless about which materials are safe for the frogs,get it wrong we might kill them. So having that complete no nonsense list of froggy safe materials and how to use,would be an utter dream for folks like us.

This conundrum of us not knowing what is safe means we are almost stuck with modifying someone else's method,because the biochemist side is beyond most of us,well me anyway. But it is a sod,because I think creativity is being stiffled to some extent 

I totally understand your frustration though

take care

Stu


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> and tbh i've given up even bothering asking people how they've done something



Good.
Cos I aint telling :whistling2:.



Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> Good.
> Cos I aint telling :whistling2:.
> 
> 
> ...


ahh suddup already,your always trying to help some one out with froggy stuff:Na_Na_Na_Na:

ha ha made I smile:2thumb:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

frogman955 said:


> Good.
> Cos I aint telling :whistling2:.
> 
> 
> ...


i wanted to show you this poster i was asked to do lol


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## Stupot1610 (Jul 6, 2013)

I feel I may be out of place posting here. But, i think that poster is hilarious, I really do! Well done, I must say :lol2:

Stuart


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

well, the plan i was talking to Callum about, is to put some foam sheeting in, do a few rocks here and there to create the natural looking outcrops spray some foam in to give em a little more curve and then use rockoflex to smooth it out a bit, giving it a natural flow rather than a sudden dramatic ledge look lol.

that or im going to buy myself some silicone mold making material and go cast me some rock faces. my 'new idea' tho is not create a miniature scale rock face, more like a cut out of a crevice in the face, so not ott minute little rocks etc, one day i may attempt to draw it lol


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Love the poster Joe.


Mike


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

http://www.tropicalfishsite.com/tantora-shrimp-series-dried-leaf-litter-review/

Posting this as a bookmark lol. Tells you what each of the readily leaves are good for.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Oi Joe where`s the poster gone ? :hmm:



Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

mods probably, they've been having a field day at the minute, deleting my posts, even when im trying to warn people about someone flogging frogs after not owning them long (again) and actually advertising his viv without mentioning the fact he had to patch a crack


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Yea I saw that post, oh well.
If it`s any consolation to you I showed that poster to the guys at work yesterday and they were howling.
You see, Salmond and his other 2 stooges are NOT as popular up here as they think they are.
In fact many people despise them.
Thanks to them we have cops walking around now with itchy fingers and guns on them.
Wasn`t long ago that they sent armed cops to sort out an argument between a couple of guys at a burgerking or something.
What a joke.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

hey guys, as you know, i ponder alot, recently i've been thinking my way through the idea of racking or at least how to layout my vivs. 

i build units like these for my vivs



















these are rather sturdy lol. i was thinking of perhaps using this as a way to build a viv racking system on one wall (happens to be the chimney, probably the sturdiest wall in my house lol) now the reason i've never considered racking before is the fact i always kinda liked the look of having them sat say 3ft off the ground around the edge of the room, however due to increasing collection and decreasing space, i am beginning to look at racking more. i'd love the ali stuff. 

i was thinking of having the vivs a foot off the floor, have two 60 cubes on the bottom and two 60wx60dx50h on the top level. as for the wood i use 89mm x 38mm or 63mm x 38mm CLS


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> hey guys, as you know, i ponder alot, recently i've been thinking my way through the idea of racking or at least how to layout my vivs.
> 
> i build units like these for my vivs
> 
> ...


Joe cool bit of work mate,well done:no1:

Buddy,if you are going to put vivs in the holes,not just on top,then add a couple of bits towards the sides,so the weight is distributed evenly over the whole of the outside of the viv,not just front and back. The principal load bearing on an ali rack is the front and back bit under the vivs,but I then add ali angles so the sides are caught too. 

As always make room when cutting for something soft underneath the viv floor,poly tile cardboard etc. I'm sure we have talked on that before bro,it's just worth repeating,broken viv floors are no bloody fun!! Hmm I'm actually moving towards 6mm for the base on the vivs I build now Joe,I haven't bust a floor yet, I just don't want to go there!!

Good for you buddy

stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

well i didnt build the one in the pic, id love that much room lol but its pretty much the same principal i built a simple square one for a 50cube earlier in the yr and recently a 6ft wide by 4ft for some storage, they are crazy tough. yeah i'd def add something underneath and in the middle. the way these work is you run the vertical inside and then you attach the other verticals around this to add support on the corner. like this but i run the vertical inside with the longest section attached to the sides rather than the front










but before placing the top frame on i attach the 'outer' supports to to the verticals and then get the top frame in place.

as for the vivs, yeah, when i looked into making my own i thought of using (for ease more than anything) two sheets of 4mm, the bottom piece being slightly larger so that when the top piece is siliconed on theres a rebate for the side panels (i seen you do this with your vivs with the thinner)


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

i have HEARD that it isn't wise to build glass vivs from different thicknesses of glass as they expand at different rates, and so can cause the seals to blow. i don't know the truth on this though..


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ha Joe your's is even better!! 

Yup that's exactly what I did. Joe those early vivs are still working,but man it's a mare moving them,once in the rack one doesn't half breath a sigh of relief,mind moving and viv is scary!!

Calz that is totally new to me,so far so good though,but I haven't built enough to know if there is any substance to this. I would say ask Richie b,he's probably built more vivs than anyone here,I'm pretty sure dutchrana build bigger vivs with a thicker base aswell bro. If they both do this without issue,we can probably lay that one to rest :2thumb: One thing I would say though the type of silicone might be a player here,I'd always use a product designed for aquarium building,to build vivs. Over the years i've handled lots of different types of silicone,I don't think they are all born equal!!

best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

I've been getting the soudal stuff for the clear siliconing i've been doing, not too much difference between that and the cheapo ha6 stuff off amazon


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

working out the 'stack', it's 1567.5mm from bottom to top, thats using 60 cubes at bottom and 50 cubes on top, adding 10cm above each viv. now i could add and make it 1800high and therefore nearly a foot off the ground and the top viv eyeline wise top would be say at 1700 aka 5'6", but then bottom vivs would only be a ft off floor hmm


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Joe, my rack starts at about 10 inches from the ground and the top vivs are at eye level.
It means I need a set of steps to get at the top vivs, but it`s no big deal.
Bottom 2 rows the vivs are 50cm high and the top row is 70cm.
I left about 10cm above each viv for access.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

most things i do as you guys know are over thought out lol (apart from buying frogs aha). so i've always kinda preferred the idea/look of having the vivs running around the edge of the room at kinda 90cm off the floor there abouts. as i really want the room to be a place i can sit, watch tv/xbox and watch me frogs. but now the collection and idea's are growing.

1. Viv just done for mysties, next 60 cube for leucs and two 50wx60dx50h for azzies and auratus. around the room or on the stack

2. Viv just done for leucs (this free's up to vivs i can break down, one is exo and got rid of and the other a 45cube and can move azzies in to or put to one side for future), build a lovely rock face for mysties, again 50cubes for azzies and auratus. 

3. Build the rack, leuc and unknown 60 cube on the bottom and on top 50 cube (these will actually be 60 deep mind) for azzies and auratus and round the corner a nice 90(100)x 50d x 70h rock face for the mysties


now 3, we've been here before lol but i'm just struggling currently to see a rock face looking how i want it to look in a cube, i think it need to be wider than it is deep to give it a look for me


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

current working out of having bottom two vivs two foot off the floor, leaves top of the top two vivs at around 6ft 6" and bottom of them at around 5ft. rack being 1.4metres wide when taking into consideration the wood and supports and a lil wiggle room. may drop to 1'6" from the bottom


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

sorry if it looks like im talking to myself BUT

THIS MORNING I SPRAYED SOME OF MY TANKS AND WAS GREETED BY SOUND OF (i think it was my Leucs) CALLING !!! only a short burst so i couldnt see who was responsible, giddy wasnt the word for it


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice one Joe. the short call will develop into full calling within a couple of months I guarantee it buddy :no1:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> sorry if it looks like im talking to myself BUT
> 
> THIS MORNING I SPRAYED SOME OF MY TANKS AND WAS GREETED BY SOUND OF (i think it was my Leucs) CALLING !!! only a short burst so i couldnt see who was responsible, giddy wasnt the word for it


Ha talking to your self we all do that bro:2thumb:

Joe Calz is spot on this will get more frequent.

I'm not actually sure if what I'm about to muse is a young frog thang,all the leuc keepers would have to get their collective heads together to confirm. But here goes: as they find their voice they call often,they even call late at night....I mean real late. I think as they get older they give the late nights up ours have. We never hear the late night songs now,but as teens they were allover the shop. 

Ha bring it on bro,oh and Joe as all this comes together watch the group dynamic carefully,top dog male doesn't always stay top,at least as far as boys go....exciting isn't it

grats buddy

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

now to figure out which tank it came from lol dead excited tho, think it came from the 'guys' i got off J

also to note, i've been hammering the spraying on the auratus viv a bit more recently and he's come back out again and was eating infront of me tonight, he also does this little game with me and decided to do shits near the front or on the vent to say "still here" lol even found an almost steaming one the other day without him in sight, fooker


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

came home tonight, did a bit of a spray and chucked a few flies in and watched in disbelief as TWO of my auratus were sat out quite comfortably scoffing flies infront of me, i worried i'd lost them until recently, they've been piling on the weight somewhere lol knew flies were going but never saw them in action, so happy right now, i know the other fella is in there as he's the one i see the most of too


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Them feels when you see a frog you haven't seen for a while. I get it with my cauchero, one of the females is a bit of a recluse and you always fear the worse if you don't see them for a while. Great to hear it Joe, maybe it was one of them calling, not the leucs


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

plasma234 said:


> Them feels when you see a frog you haven't seen for a while. I get it with my cauchero, one of the females is a bit of a recluse and you always fear the worse if you don't see them for a while. Great to hear it Joe, maybe it was one of them calling, not the leucs


well that was one of my other feeling i must say, they'd be around 10months old now give or take


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> well that was one of my other feeling i must say, they'd be around 10months old now give or take


Tell ya what lads,this haven't seen a frog in a while,oh thank god there it is,don't go away:bash:

Joe the call of a leuc and the call of an auratus are utterly different,go have a listen on dendrobates.org. Leucs resemble a cross between a bird and an engine auratus soft quiet hum/buzz

How ironic I was thinking of your SB's last night and musing they can't be far off now. Buddy have you got some film cans in there? Mine,both morphs use these just fine,even though one would think they are too big. But here's something to note,almost all of the time I hear SB dad calling,he's breeding. They caught me by breeding before I thought they were old enough to,so get some cans sorted mate,sort those call ID's out and just the biggest amount of deserved luck one can get!!

bring it on bro

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

the call the other day was as i said a very short burst, 3 seconds maybe and was like a rasp ?

i have a feeling it sounded more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OT2Q_DAz5Q

god knows, the reason i thought leucs was because they were out and about, but perhaps my move to spray the auratus viv extra recently could have swung em


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> the call the other day was as i said a very short burst, 3 seconds maybe and was like a rasp ?
> 
> i have a feeling it sounded more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OT2Q_DAz5Q
> 
> god knows, the reason i thought leucs was because they were out and about, but perhaps my move to spray the auratus viv extra recently could have swung em


Bro no sound in Stu's computerland ha bet it's SB's

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

also, quick one on the racking front, as it will be made with cls wood, will yacht varnish be the ideal sealer ?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

What do you need to seal it for Joe ?



Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> also, quick one on the racking front, as it will be made with cls wood, will yacht varnish be the ideal sealer ?


Bro check with supplier,I have a hunch that cls is already treated to pass building regs,so you might not need any sealer at all. Joe I'm not 100%,but something about or like protim is ringing bells. It isn't tanalised,which is a Cu based preserving pressure treatment for sure,have a dig buddy,but do tell folks If I'm wrong

best

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

thought with the hand misting the moisture getting out the vent may cause issues


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I think you`ll find it to be quite minimal Joe.
So far I`ve had no issues with my rack in it`s first year.
It would need a helluva lot of water to do damage to your wood and by the time that happens you`d have seen anything not right and fixed it.
If you really have to seal it a nice wood stain would probably be enough.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

no the not sealing it works well for me, cuts down my build from week or two to half a day lol


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

soundstounite said:


> Bro no sound in Stu's computerland


Never happy stu are you :lol2::no1:


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> Never happy stu are you :lol2::no1:


Nah it's bloody bliss bro,:Na_Na_Na_Na: the racket I make the ears need a rest dude!!!!

Calz,if I'd have wanted a rattle here from this machine or the previous incarnations it would have happened years back got a spare pr of nearfields in da studio sitting idle. This monster is fabulous,I had to have this ruddy fan contraption going all the time to keep the temps down on the laptop,this baby just goes

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh :2thumb::lol2:

On the odd occassion I really want to listen I've used cans in the past mate got some 29db isolators for the drums,but hey if I want to hear leucs or auratus I'd rather listen to the real thing ta,not some crap recording on da web:gasp:

Funny as

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Plants, glorious plants

*Pilea depressa*










*Didymonchlaena spec*

*doryopteris cordata*










*Pteris red












Cissus Amazonica


Marcgravia sintenisii*










*Ranke aus venezuela*










*Begonia Bowerae*


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Plants, glorious plants
> 
> *Pilea depressa*
> 
> ...



Lovely choices bro,just lovely

Stu


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

You need to trim the pilea to keep it bushy with dense growth, otherwise it becomes leggy and a little ugly, I had it my very first viv. A very nice choice though. Begonias are becoming a new interest for me. :2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

well, im hoping to grow it in a month or so, depending on what it comes like and growth, i aim to get a few cuttings going on


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

plasma234 said:


> You need to trim the pilea to keep it bushy with dense growth, otherwise it becomes leggy and a little ugly, I had it my very first viv. A very nice choice though. Begonias are becoming a new interest for me. :2thumb:



If that's the same stuff that I`ve got in my vivs then damn but it gets a bit wild :banghead:.
I just cut loads out and chucked it in the bucket.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

its probably going in the front, so easily accessible


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

*THE CONUNDRUM *


Right, been doing some more measuring etc, roughly the unit for 2x 60 cubes and two 50ish cubes is 140x70 with wood etc and is roughly 6ft tall, so here's my problem with its original placement











or i could have a single stack for the 2 60 cubes and have a stack for four 50's (50w 60dx 50-60 tall)










its that or put the 140x70 stack round the corner and have one big nice viv in its original place


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Picture two. I didn't read the post fully but picture 2 looks better.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

lol, also if i go with the stack on the right being for 50 wides etc it would mean i had space for two vivs for azzies and super blues, and up top, who knows, some pumilio ?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> lol, also if i go with the stack on the right being for 50 wides etc it would mean i had space for two vivs for azzies and super blues, and up top, who knows, some pumilio ?


Joe,plan is looking down ?????

option 3:Na_Na_Na_Na:
build the rack on the 225 wall the space to the right leave for the moment,or shelves for feeders?

Later build a rack on the 130 wall but doors facing left re your plan. this rack sits in behind the other with 125 depth to play with and the vivs can be made to what ever size you want. what i'm pondering is more vivs if you want later,plus looking at a corner full of vivs which will look tidy and take out that 30cm step as far as the eye is concerned

Does this make sense?

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

like this ?


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> like this ?
> 
> image


Sorry bro on second thoughts I think I'm talking cobblers,it's not quite what I was pondering as I had the corners of the two vivs at rightangles all but touching but the depth is way to much ,even if you went 80deep,on the second rack,it still pulls 45cm off your room,in wasted space. 

Which frankly,just seems silly:bash:

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

this is how it may look using the 220wall for the 60cubes and the 120 for the rest


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

so, i thought, f#ck the tv ......


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

On the right rack, drop the bottom stilts by 10 cm and have 4 x 70 highs, cauchero in one of them 

Edit:

Why can the left hand rack have 70 highs on the top also?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

thos bottom two are for the azzies and auratus im afraid callum. and i think we all know what one of those 70 highs would be for (looks at Stu)


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

heres some of the plants i got of rainforest vivs and bens jungle, really impressed with these plants, especially bens jungle, they look the sex to me lol


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## Liam Yule (Feb 16, 2012)

Love the plants!


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Love em Joe. Now to get them planted...


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

jd's should be here tomorrow with a few other pieces so should get it done then


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

jesus christ those 13w jungle dawns are bright, chuffing nora. tomorrow i believe i shall actually plant my tank up :gasp:, hopefully


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

we were saying about the pilea getting out of hand

here is a pic from my very first viv...


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

this is me with a jungle dawn behind me lol and sorry for blur i was juggling at the time. views please


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> this is me with a jungle dawn behind me lol and sorry for blur i was juggling at the time. views please
> 
> image
> image
> ...


Cool stuff !!

Joe,train the marc where you want it with cocktail sticks(break in two now sharp pointy bits),once she has got up about half way,pinch the top out ,you might need to repeat this a few times. This will make her put out more new shoots,you'll get much more coverage of the sides this way,rather than single long strands

good luck buddy

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

stu, im used to the mesh method obv, for this i put down a layer of orchid bark and then covered in a tree fern/sphag/tiny coir mix, unfortuantely not too many leaves atm, this layer was a bit thin so shall be adding to soon and obviously covering in several leaf type layer.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> stu, im used to the mesh method obv, for this i put down a layer of orchid bark and then covered in a tree fern/sphag/tiny coir mix, unfortuantely not too many leaves atm, this layer was a bit thin so shall be adding to soon and obviously covering in several leaf type layer.


Don't see any issues Joe, I know similar is working here after 3 years,ok simpler coarse orchid and ll then whole leaves. I'd probably slink of to a nice cornish oak wood somewhere deep along the Fal and top your thin layer with this then the leaves. nuke it thorough though kiddo.

As above this works I know it does,but still there is the need to make up a clay sub and try that,organic has to break down at some stage mate, mineral subs must be closer to what nature provides.

Good luck matey!!

Oh Shaz is demanding pics of her azzies:gasp: is not a polite ask mate it's one of those yes darling just give Joe a few days he's a busy guy:2thumb: covering ya back kiddo she's real scary when she's like this though :whip::whip:

LMAO

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i shall get a pic for her in the next few days mate, need to get them some drier leaves in there. they are so funny tho, those three hang out everywhere together, they sleep in a cork tube and come out in the morning and tonight all three of them were up a cork tube too lol


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Why thank you kind sir:no1:

Joe I forget,these are your first tinc kids. They really are puppies to my eyes,there is something absolutely special about rearing these guys, it's that boldness I think and the way they react to us. Ha, and naturally what you have mentioned, just, what they get up too.

good luck bro

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

here they are, like i said, more leaf litter coming so their floor should be less damp


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Frog Calling : CONFIRMED

one of J's Leucs i got was giving it loads tonight, Tinc, the little guy in the tank, so chuffed, he's the guy who watches tv, listens to you talk to him and waits for me to get in after work, amazing, so fin chuffed tonight


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> Frog Calling : CONFIRMED
> 
> one of J's Leucs i got was giving it loads tonight, Tinc, the little guy in the tank, so chuffed, he's the guy who watches tv, listens to you talk to him and waits for me to get in after work, amazing, so fin chuffed tonight


From both of us thanks mate,and a belated chrimbo to you both!! Ha bro so made up about little "tinc". Might be me mate but do young leucs often call at night. Once I get time got a couple of new faces to show ya mate,one not quite OOTW,one just spotted,but won't derail ya thread bro,just sharing the joy man:2thumb:

Azzies look good Joe,well done kiddo,knew they were in good hands: victory:

Mate do you have any further news on the auratus yet,ie calling or eggs,they can't be far away from breeding age now?

Have the best new year dude

best always

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cheers mate, absolutely buzzing these last few days, he's been giving it loads last few days, as for time, seems to be random really, gives it a bit in morning and night.

no news on auratus fella, i am however building their brand new home atm, polystyrene everywhere lol


























im going to add another vertical sheet of poly to the back and then start filling it in in a similar fashion


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

looking great joe! do you know what material you'll be covering it with yet?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

atm rockoflex as the 'cement' and then elastopur, unsure whether to go for rock dust or earth to finish


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> atm rockoflex as the 'cement' and then elastopur, unsure whether to go for rock dust or earth to finish


ahh nice!! have you worked with it before?
just a thought, do you know if foam needs to be sealed?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

sorry martin for not replying, the foam does need to be sealed, and this is my first time working with styrofoam, found whilst it makes a mess it saves a fair bit of carving, respraying etc that expanding foam creates. i've used expandy foam to fill in a few spots on here but in the future i'd probably carve some styro up


here's a few more shots of what i've managed to get done, between work and me and the missus feeling ill, a bit slow, but ah well, pretty much there, the last side will be alot simpler


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Question Joe.
Why not use a heat gun to melt the foam to the shape you want ?



Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

im in a tiny room, at the end of the corridor from the frogroom, and go through a ton of gaffer tape keeping doors taped up lol. i do after mikei've been roughly carving the styrofoam and then heat gunning it to finish/ come pieces need doing


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Sorry Joe, don`t let me hold you up :2thumb:.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

lol, just been an ass ache fella, the shed never got done, nor was it going to work as i'd be up and down weaving tight angles with a heavy glass box. so i've had to nick a tiny little room to do this in and that has added alot of time to the project if ya get me. once this one is done, i should have me rack sorted and then gotta grab two more 60 cubes to get done and all my current frogs shall be housed, and then building future projects should be easier


unless, you know, i go somewhere and buy more bloody frogs


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

that looks great mate! i really like the way you have the rocks over hanging at the top.
yeah that foam gets everywhere! be worth it in the end though


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> unless, you know, i go somewhere and buy more bloody frogs



Yes Joe it can be a bitch.
But, damn is it worth it.
Now about more frogs, I can help you out there lmao.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

right guys, looking for some input and advice, the one corner i've got done i like but i didnt quite manage to get the corner curve as i had hope (i may add in a bit of foam to make it less square), and the idea behind this viv is to break up direct light reach below to help aid my auratus feel a bit more comfortable out in the open etc. so here's roughly what im looking at atm and leaving the left pretty much a basic 'rock wall' with a bit of over hand up top, what do you think, also the branches will be planted with a fair few broms. and the planters in the top will have alot of climbing/trailing plants in. i could make the left very overhanging but i cant cover in rockoflex and elastopur in situ in the viv, so doing a full surround will be nigh on impossible etc


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

love it :2thumb:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

reckon it will be fine ? i think the broms on the branches and the stuff up top will be more than enough to break up the light


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

looking good mate! have you got a pic from front on, with the background in the viv?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

no background in just yet, got to get it epoxied. 

my other viv i have sitting has run into a few issues, either im not lighting it fully, watering it enough, my soil mix was cobbled together oooooooooor it is to do with airflow (how to up this, i dont know). part of me still thinks "stick in an aechmea and broms for mysties"


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> no background in just yet, got to get it epoxied.
> 
> my other viv i have sitting has run into a few issues, either im not lighting it fully, watering it enough, my soil mix was cobbled together oooooooooor it is to do with airflow (how to up this, i dont know). part of me still thinks "stick in an aechmea and broms for mysties"


Joe curiosity on air flow as you have mentioned this a couple of times...viv dimensions please,front vent width...top vent width and also what size mesh was used,0.4mm.... 0.6mm?? Air flow doesn't completely stack to me buddy,sure there are areas in this type of viv where the through flow is less,but not stacking,water holding capacity of subs is more plausible for me at least

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i shall get those measurements, the europeans pos yanks think this is possibly an issue stu, i dont see it myself. the soil is very dry, i've wondered if i am underwatering because the soil down low is very dry but i give the tank a good misting twice a day by hand. I think my soil mix was off and not deep enough, plus the possibility of the ground level not receiving alot of water

this is how it looked the night i put the plants in, that ficus on the left has gone, and the little climber right at the front top there, also installed a nice big brom at the back middle top and one below it on the branch, will grab a pic tomorrow


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Joe when you put in a new substrate it is normally bone dry.
If you take into account how much water your actually spraying you might find that it is evaporating a lot quicker than you think.
If you think it`s too dry give it a good soak and then see how it stands up with your normal spraying after that.
Hmmm, airflow ? whats that ?
The only thing I`ve ever found with air flow is reduced viv temps.
Cut it back to a minimum.
Natural convection will shift air through the viv for you just as long as you have an in and an out vent.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

nearly got the rack built, sat there drilling away and the MYSTIES START BUZZING AWAY !!!!


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> nearly got the rack built, sat there drilling away and the MYSTIES START BUZZING AWAY !!!!


EGGS soon:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble: 

he he wicked isn't it been awaiting this a while bro

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

rack, done










leuc viv re-jigged


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

*The New Viv*











































*and one of its future inhabitants*


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Peat plates in, hopefully get some lovely moss growth on this in the future, done until payday and then its plants mmmm


























and because i realised the top of the page images didnt upload

rack










leuc viv


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Joe.
Once you are about ready to put frogs in give the peat a good soak.
It will be slow to soak up the water but you`ll soon know when it`s got enough.
After that the daily misting will keep it moist.
I find that if your Peat is looking dry after daily misting you will need to increase the time a little just to stop the peat from drying out.
Once it is moist enough the lights will soon get the moss growing, I expect you to see something happening about a month down the line.
I take it your using a Jungle Dawn on this viv, if so it will soon get the moss growing nice and thick.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah ill give it a good soak. i've got some kyoto moss spores left, doubt they work, but hey, chuck em on too cant do no harm.

p.s cheers for replying i dont look like im talking to myself now aha


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Don`t worry Joe the place isn`t that dead ................ yet :lol2:.


Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Jees take some time out to try and get a lot of dart guys to sign a petition and everyone thinks I'm bloody dead,give me chance bro I'm not that old:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Cor that bloody superblue is a belter,man wish I could breed frogs like that:Na_Na_Na_Na:

That cork running left to right is upside down Joe:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Who gave you the idea for that cork background mate,tell him to sod off,it'll never work:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Welcome to the world of posting on a forum no one replies,don't take it personally though buddy no one replies to Mike either:lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:

I'm sorry buddy ya seemed sad,so I thought I'd try and cheer you up:Na_Na_Na_Na: actually Mike too,he'll just slap me anyway:mf_dribble:,but I bet he's smiling by now: victory:

Don't listen to any of the above it's going to be a fantastic home and you have done a cracking job with that little frog mate can't wait to see it all planted up

Love to Paula buddy


bring it on

Stu


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Stu
Yes I`m sitting here smiling.
Just getting everything together now so I can start doing the viv up for the Mysties so that's going to keep me busy for a while.
Better have some ready for me later in the year Stu lol.
The background is just gonna end up however it ends up lol but I`ve got the broms planned.
The base will be a false bottom covered by a large sheet (100x50) of polystyrene which will be covered in my favourite, peat plates.
The background will be polystyrene cut and melted to try and look the part before getting coated in various materials to seal any nasties in.
I should have everything here in the next few days for me to get started.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

aha, its okay Stu, just a bit depressing, we used to get loads of replies if we did a tank update, its just you me and mike lol we should do a show "Three Men and a Frog Room"


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Ha I knew you'ld get it:2thumb: Mike, I've got some stonkers morphing mate,shouldn't be an issue once we have then nice and big and strong for you,but a few months yet.


Mike just for a mo. my completely serious hat on,please check out the polystyrene. I haven't told many I have had a problem here,with a viv. It has taken me eons to work out what exactly that problem had potentially been caused by. I am in no way completely sure of the cause even now. I honestly thought someone had messed with us,I can't do the detail here on a public forum(nothing to do with the hobby mate),but let's say I thought someone had put something on my stock of wood that we have sitting here for our vivs. But now I think I was wrong and that something might have changed with the poly,that I have always got from the same builders merchant,actually in our village. I'm concerned that the poly might have a fire retardant in it or on it. I can't be sure buddy,I have used poly in every single viv we have built out,somewhere around 14 and never had an issue. But by a process of elimination it can't have been the epoxy or rocko,I have used both of the same batches on other vivs without issue and replaced the wood with some bought stuff from Marc. Plus the silicone is the same as I always use and again that batch has built other vivs which are fine. So the only thing it could be now seems to be the poly. 

Guys I haven't really said anything both due to lack of time and also the simple fact I had and have no proof of what caused my issue and trying to find out just why this happened has had me completely stumped. It's not like it's my first viv,all have been built up from scratch here,but seeing your post Mike made me think I need to say something just in case my hunch is right. It is a hunch mate no proof of why the viv was contaminated but I've used the same set of materials over and over again. The only plausible variable I have left now is that the poly has in some way changed maybe due to building regs and that has caught me out. :bash:

Joe sorry to litter up your thread with this,I am so unsure over what has happened, that making this call is tricky I've used poly so much and would have recommended it to anyone,but seeing Mike's post made me think sod if I'm wrong about the poly,You very nearly had this post directed at you mate,but changed viv design before I got there,but it is something I need to flag,just in case

take care both

Stu


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> aha, its okay Stu, just a bit depressing, we used to get loads of replies if we did a tank update, its just you me and mike lol we should do a show "Three Men and a Frog Room"


Well that's better than three frogs and a manroom buddy,:gasp:

I know mate things have changed so much here,but hey every where is a dead zone forum wise. But, We still take the mick out of each other and still help each other when we can 

seeya

Stu


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

Stu, feel free to do so mate, knowledge shared is knowledge gained no matter where it is placed, cheers for posting it fella


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

best update this really, aha, i've got three lovely oranje terribs now to add to my collection. vivs at the moment

this now houses my Mysties and not leucs as intended, within two days they had laid a clutch in there last week aha










and this is the viv which will be housing my Azzies i got from Stu, the moss slurry i got from roland has greened up in a matter of weeks


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