# A dog attacked my 2 dogs - options?



## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

Last night an evil little scottie dog with a bad reputation slipped his collar and attacked my 2 dogs. This dog pretty much hates all dogs and a few years ago attacked my Springer a couple of times and has attacked other dogs.

I know the owner, she lives a few houses away and I know she has been really trying with him at classes and behaviour training but clearly he isn't going to change and he is a dangerous dog. This wasn't a sniff that turned into a fight, he came running from the next street to attack them, she had held him for a few minutes as we walked past and we were just about home.

Luckily they didn't need any vet treatment (she would've covered the cost) but Jake who got it worse is limping a bit and had a couple of puncture wounds on his back leg.

What is the best thing to do? 

Last time with Max (3 years ago) we did report it to the police so they had a record of it but they won't really do anything unless it bit a person. I said to her before in a message that I didn't want to see him without a muzzle on ever but she hasn't responded and I haven't seen them out today. Also asked that we let each other know when we are out walking so they don't bump into each other again. She did say last night she will always use a harness with him from now on instead of a collar but I know from experience dogs can slip the clip on a lead, especially when you are restraining them and the lead is loose because they can go backwards.

My biggest concern is the long term effect, with Max 2-3 times a day this dog would walk past the house and start barking making him bark back terrified. Max did have his own problems so hard to say what impact it had but Holly and Jake are perfect dogs and I don't want them to become nervous.


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm unsure what my reaction will be regarding this when it happens to me, pretty sure whatever the case it will be "my fault" as I have a big dog. I'd have no issue kicking a dog away if it went for mine id have kicked it in this case . My patience would be tired by it barking by the house every day too. 

It sounds like the owner is being reasonable though which makes it more difficult to deal with her. If she was an arse you could fall out with her easier. Get her to change her walk route with the dog maybe. Threaten legal action over muzzle, sure there would be a lawyer somewhere would take it up over it assaulting your dog. 
What do you want to happen?


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## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

Can't change routes, she lives in the end of a small cul-de-sac and I live at the corner house on the junction so both roads pass my house. There is nothing in the opposite direction just private farmland.

I want the dog to be muzzled 100% of the time when outside.

If it turns out that it continues to upset my dogs then i'd want it put to sleep, I don't say that lightly.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

If her dog has broken the skin then I am afraid to say that despite what you say it DOES need vet treatment.

Any broken skin from a dog bite on either a person, a dog or any animal should be treated with antibiotics. There is a great deal of bacteria in a dogs mouth (though less than in a cats) which can easily lead to staph infection, which can turn deadly especially in the blood stream (septicaemia).


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

It seems obvious to me that the dog should be muzzled - if it's slipped its lead then it's well determined and not under control - at least if it was wearing a muzzle and it broke free again it wouldn't be able to do any damage.

If she ignores your request to muzzle it, then I would go to the police, report the incident and remind them of the previous incident and say you're concerned that the dog isn't under control.

What you have to consider is that it isn't just to do with biting a person, it's to do with the possibility that it might bite a person. For instance a person with a dog, or a child with a person with a dog.

I would push for a muzzle to be honest.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

I feel awful for both of you in this situation and I agree - push for a muzzle. Also agree that you should pop to the vets about the puncture! Report to the police and your local dog warden, and I would suggest to her that she take him out late at night and early in the morning to avoid most dog traffic.


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## XOX (Feb 18, 2012)

Call the dog warden, or police


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

My dog is not good with other dogs and now I have him muzzled whenever he is out of the house. It is a shame I have to do this and I put it off until I dared not take the risk of him doing another dog some serious damage. I would say go to the womans house and calmly explain you are not happy and that your dog needed to see a vet and she really needs to muzzle him. My dog didn't like the muzzle at first but now he is fine with it and it doesn't bother him.


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## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I will certainly tell her (again) that a muzzle is a must or I will report her. She is nice enough and I know he has a muzzle because he always wears it when off the lead at the field.

She is nice enough and I know she has put a lot of time and money into training for him but he is clearly a dog that will never be able to be helped 100%.

I'll phone the vet in the morning because he did have open wounds, I hadn't realised the risk of infection was high, I thought dogs patched themselves up pretty well. He is walking about again now but not walked them today further than about 30m from the house just so they could do their business on the grass verge.

He will be back to being a puppy again in a few days i'm sure.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Repott to the dog wardens, the dog is out of control in a public place therefore falls under the dangerous dogs act. She will then be under court order to keep it muzzled in a public place.

Also keep introducing and socialising your dogs with other dogs that you know are nice this will help them keep well socialised and not be phased by the dog that attacked them.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> Repott to the dog wardens, the dog is out of control in a public place therefore falls under the dangerous dogs act. She will then be under court order to keep it muzzled in a public place.
> 
> Also keep introducing and socialising your dogs with other dogs that you know are nice this will help them keep well socialised and not be phased by the dog that attacked them.


He is correct, limiting them to only going 30m and allowing them to not returning to normal for days and not play with other dogs will increase the impact on your dogs. 

If a dog attacks your dogs as hard as it maybe at the time you need to stay calm and normal and if possible get them right back playing with other dogs asap. 

My retriever was playing on the beach with a staffy cross when out of nowhere a yorkie cross ran across and bit straight through the skin behind her heel/lower leg area. She was really distressed and what I wanted to do was take her straight home. However I could see she was scared of playing with the staffy cross now and I got up and walked towards the staffy owner and got her playing again before I moved on to talk to the Yorkie owner.


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## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

He is back to his puppy self now. The 30m walk thing was because he couldn't seem to put weight on his leg and was hobbling along. Have booked him into puppy classes starting at the end of the month.

He is a bit nervous with strangers and other dogs but was like this anyway. Saying that when my mum and dad came round tonight he was all over them.

I haven't seen the woman to speak to since but did see her walk past yesterday with him muzzled. Doesn't seem to be an issue when he walks past the house (maybe the muzzle is stopping him barking). I haven't reported it yet but will keep an eye on it and make sure he is always muzzled.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

Dog Dazer II Ultrasonic Dog Deterrent [DOG DAZER] - £34.99 : Pooch Dvd, Dog and Cat Care and Training Dvd/s

these work great in such a situation. but i would report the dog...


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

now i have more time, how old is your dog? 

you say puppy classes... well its down to you to protect a puppy... socialise it well and make sure its early start in life is safe loving and protected. 

all it can take is one bite or attack from a aggressive dog and your dog can end up dog aggressive with serious social issues it can take years to iron out... 

I take a pretty strong attitude to dog protection... If a agressive dog comes towards me walking either puppy or adult dogs i first ask owner to take control of there dogs if it is still a threat i ask them to remove the animal from my path whilst I wait. If the dog is loose, slips collar or still manages to encroach on space to a point it is a threat to me and my dog, i will happily, kick said dog, or hit with a stick if walking with one. 

that link i posted is a brilliant sound emitting device that emits ultra sonic frequencies that does exactly what it says on the tin it dazzes them confuses almost, not harm or side effects can be seen but aggressive behaviour or barking shuts up instantly... 

Dangerous dogs should be reported end of. thats black and white. be it dog or people aggressive if the owner can not address these issues then the dog is not fit to be in the community with that owner...


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

ermgravy said:


> now i have more time, how old is your dog?
> 
> you say puppy classes... well its down to you to protect a puppy... socialise it well and make sure its early start in life is safe loving and protected.
> 
> ...


my dog isnt fit to be in my community with me then ok, 
making her put a muzzle on doesnt just solve the problem and it could get the dog killed because it would not be able to defend itself if a fight broke out


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2011)

my dads got a bull terror and it killed a dog that attacked first it was reported and all we was told to do was keep him muzzled and walk him before first light and after 10 at night


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## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

DavieB said:


> I'm unsure what my reaction will be regarding this when it happens to me, pretty sure whatever the case it will be "my fault" as I have a big dog. I'd have no issue kicking a dog away if it went for mine id have kicked it in this case . My patience would be tired by it barking by the house every day too.
> 
> It sounds like the owner is being reasonable though which makes it more difficult to deal with her. If she was an arse you could fall out with her easier. Get her to change her walk route with the dog maybe. Threaten legal action over muzzle, sure there would be a lawyer somewhere would take it up over it assaulting your dog.
> What do you want to happen?


I agree. the thread maker should take photos of the wounds and keep as proof of the attack i'm 100% sure if you wanted too some solicitors would take this case on as a no win no fee, trouble is the dog (85%) will be put to sleep as it does fall under the dangerous dogs act, slipping out of the lead and running over to attack is above the minimum to be classes as a dangerous dog.


Mischievous_Mark said:


> Repott to the dog wardens, the dog is out of control in a public place therefore falls under the dangerous dogs act. She will then be under court order to keep it muzzled in a public place.
> 
> Also keep introducing and socialising your dogs with other dogs that you know are nice this will help them keep well socialised and not be phased by the dog that attacked them.


i agree. should be muzzled or put down simple. i get very upset about people round were i live so many people have dogs which run over barking, biten at my dog, i always have a word but as yet i have not reported anyone but if it carrys on i think i will, never had this problem were i used to live (people had brains there :lol2


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

philipniceguy said:


> I agree. the thread maker should take photos of the wounds and keep as proof of the attack i'm 100% sure if you wanted too some solicitors would take this case on as a no win no fee, trouble is the dog (85%) will be put to sleep as it does fall under the dangerous dogs act, slipping out of the lead and running over to attack is above the minimum to be classes as a dangerous dog.
> 
> 
> i agree. should be muzzled or put down simple. i get very upset about people round were i live so many people have dogs which run over barking, biten at my dog, i always have a word but as yet i have not reported anyone but if it carrys on i think i will, never had this problem were i used to live (people had brains there :lol2



cant believe a so called dog lover would want a dog put down because it got into a fight


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

sue her...


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

123dragon said:


> cant believe a so called dog lover would want a dog put down because it got into a fight


A dog that is going out of its way to fight another dog and not backing down (i.e. deliberately trying to slip the lead) is more than enough to be considered dangerous and could well be put to sleep if attention is drawn to it.


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## 123dragon (Jan 15, 2011)

Ophexis said:


> A dog that is going out of its way to fight another dog and not backing down (i.e. deliberately trying to slip the lead) is more than enough to be considered dangerous and could well be put to sleep if attention is drawn to it.


i know it could happen, still think its stupid tho


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

its perfectly simply aggressive dogs make other dogs dog aggressive if they are attacked. not only that dogs fighting significantly increase the chances of people being bit by one of the fighting dogs. also aggressive dogs seem to have little regard for self preservation being a big dog owner i am all to aware of the danger of my dog defending its self resulting in the attacking dog requiring serious veterinary attention or worse. for which me and my dog could be held responsible... 

grow up! dangerous and aggressive dogs should be destroyed if owners can not control them or at least taken off form idiots and put in hands of sensible dog minded owners who can deal with said problems...

as for the argument about my dog cant be muzzled cos it cant defend its self... my that is your job! sorry to tell you but doesn't matter what breed your dog is has it been seriously trained in protection and bite work? i doubt it if it requires a muzzle in public and if so what the hell are you doing doing that work with such a dog in the first place.... Well then on the basis it hasnt been trained then chances are it going to be scrappy at best at defending itself against you or another dog! 90% of untrained dogs RUN be it a rottie presa corso bully or what ever....


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

house it with a retic,,,that shud calm it down abit :whistling2:


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

nile monitor would be a great therapist for such a dog too... :lol2:


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

ermgravy said:


> nile monitor would be a great therapist for such a dog too... :lol2:


not a massive 1 maybe 1 about 6ft


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

no one does anything!:devil: stupid pit bull ( im being serious its way too big for a staff taller wide head too) thing next door to my horses has attacked my miniature horse! and chasing the horses constantly comes over though all the fencing that SHE is ment to put up to keep HER dogs in. the dog has also attacked several others dogs. its always wandering on the road and the public foot path behind. the dogs let them self out the house when they feel like it too. she has been advised by the police to keep then caged AND muzzled but she hasnt botherd

for months now we have been invloved with police dog warden etc one is the police officers basicly said well they are dogs at the end of the day they are going to attack other animals that what they are for:censor:

and they now tell us basicly they dont care and its not classed as a dangerous dog! so we have reported them to the RSPCA and hopefully they will do something. if not will have to shoot the dog.:censor:

basicly the dog needs to atack a person or i nflict serious injuries before anythig to be done about it!!!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

out of control dog on farmland attacking or chasing livestock = shotgun.

sad, but it has to be done.


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> out of control dog on farmland attacking or chasing livestock = shotgun.
> 
> sad, but it has to be done.


yup i do not hold a gun licecne letalong a gun. i have friends that do but they are never there when the dog it around:bash:


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> out of control dog on farmland attacking or chasing livestock = shotgun.
> 
> sad, but it has to be done.


I actually agree with this. Horrible, but sensible.


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

personally i think any aggresive dog should be put down.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

sn8ks4life said:


> personally i think any aggresive dog should be put down.


... the death penalty is alive and well in the u.k.!: victory:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

this is one of those tricky situations...
if my dog were to attack something unprevoked i would have to have it PTS as i have children and we walk the dogs where there are families...and i wouldnt want to be responsible for a child getting hurt.
If my dogs bit something due to being attacked first then thats different... i would keep my eye on proceedings after the evnt and if i felt my dog could no longer be trusted i.e was unpredicatable or showing signs of being aggresive i would muzzle it when out and keep it on a lead.

its a hard one to call tho...


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

HABU said:


> ... the death penalty is alive and well in the u.k.!: victory:


 haha yea for animals not for the humans who need it thou:whistling2:

and yes rach, i agree, if a dogs being aggresive whats the odds you'll be able to walk down the street without it hurting a small child? it might or it might not but its not worth the risk is it, and also when a dogs just retaliating i can understand, my dads staffie is the soppiest ruddy thing ever, as we all know staffs are if brought up well, but its always the bloody horrible little yap yap dogs such as JR's that come over to him yap and then start picking a fight, granted my dads staff wont generally retaliate untill the little dog takes it to far, by which time ive removed the horrible little thing from the equastion, but if he did retaliate and rip the little dog to pieces sods law is my dads dog and him woud get the blame right?????? how does that work???? why is the justice system in this country as messed up and as wrong for animals as it is for people??


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

dont get me wrong... it would be the most awful decision to make ever BUT, i could not live withmyself if i knew my dog was capable of causing serious harm and knew it had bitten before and id not either taken precautions OR put the dog down.
I know someone who had a perticularly large GSD.
this said dog bit 3 maybe 4 people... the postman, a friend of the family and it also attacked a small dog on a walk, but she always claimed there wasnt a muzzle big enough for him.
she then used to walk it down the local beach were families walked their dogs.
very very silly... she was lucky she wasnt sued by the people he bit.
But how would she have felt if he had attacked a child and killed/maimed them?
she then had a child of her own... now if that were me id have been rehoming the dog just to be on the safe side...


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> dont get me wrong... it would be the most awful decision to make ever BUT, i could not live withmyself if i knew my dog was capable of causing serious harm and knew it had bitten before and id not either taken precautions OR put the dog down.
> I know someone who had a perticularly large GSD.
> this said dog bit 3 maybe 4 people... the postman, a friend of the family and it also attacked a small dog on a walk, but she always claimed there wasnt a muzzle big enough for him.
> she then used to walk it down the local beach were families walked their dogs.
> ...


I understand what you are saying, and what you choose to do to your own dogs to feel safe is your call. 

However it is worth making clear that very very rarely like very very very very rarely will a dog aggressive dog ever ever bite a human....unless of course a stupid person who thought they could physically break up a dog fight gets accidentally caught.

Similar to me saying that because my dog killed a seagull it could be dog aggressive.

If a normal balanced dog suddenly becomes uncharacteristically aggressive then they deserve a vet visit and yes there could be an illness causing the aggression and that could be equally inflict damage to a dog or human or even itself, but that aside dog aggressive dogs are simply *dog* aggressive and would never hurt a human.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

DOG AGGRESSION IS CAUSED BY EITHER OF TWO FACTORS:

1. BAD SOCIALISATION... (EQUALLY THE MAIN CAUSE IN DOG TO HUMAN AGGRESSION.)

2. AN AGGRESSIVE DOG ATTACKING SAID DOG BEFORE FULLY MATURITY.

either way its human era and on the hands of the owner... dog aggressive dogs dont deserve to be in the hands of people who raised them as such....

either understand the animal you buy and raise it in a safe protected well socialised environment or dont by it. 

It really is that black and white....


AND IM SORRY BUT IT IS FAR MORE COMMON A GENETIC TRATE TO BE PERSON WARRY THAN DOG WARRY SO NOT SOCIALISING CERTAIN BREEDS IS A DISASTER AND TO SAY CAUSE THEY ARE DOG AGGRO THEY WONT BE TOWARDS PEOPLE IS GARBAGE...


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

I must say that some breeds (like mine) can have issues with other dogs. Mals are known for it, particularly same sex agression. With this in mind we did tons of socialisation with her, plus puppy class and ringcraft and until she was about three she had no issues with strange dogs at all, they could come up and bark in her face and she would simply gaze at them.
Now she is four and mature, she does grumble at some dogs and although she is merely warning them, she is a big dog and I don't hang about near dogs she dislikes. She has never kicked off, just warned probably because of all the effort we put in in the early years.
I did read stories about mals when I was researching them, such as them fighting for the sheer joy of it and killing dogs with their tails wagging madly with enjoyment.. not sure how accurate these reports were but I don't like to take any chances!

I is fierce doggy me.... not with cats though!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Kare said:


> I understand what you are saying, and what you choose to do to your own dogs to feel safe is your call.
> 
> However it is worth making clear that very very rarely like very very very very rarely will a dog aggressive dog ever ever bite a human....unless of course a stupid person who thought they could physically break up a dog fight gets accidentally caught.
> 
> ...


 
I hear you and i can see your point too But, as said...i just couldnt take that risk...personally.
the other option i would consider is rehoming to a place where there were no children.
I just couldnt live with myself IF something happened...

we did have to have a dog rehomed many years ago... as it bit my JR and drew blood... at that time i had my young nephew round a lot and didnt want to risk him getting bitten...
so we had him rehomed...broke my heart BUT i believe what i did was right for my family and the dog... prevention is often better than cure...


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

ermgravy said:


> TO SAY CAUSE THEY ARE DOG AGGRO THEY WONT BE TOWARDS PEOPLE IS GARBAGE...


I believe what Kare (I assume that's who you were referring to) was trying to say is that just because a dog is dog aggressive, does not make it human aggressive or any more likely to bite a human than a dog that isn't aggressive. I don't think she was saying that just because a dog is dog aggressive, it will be perfectly fine with humans.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

ermgravy said:


> DOG AGGRESSION IS CAUSED BY EITHER OF TWO FACTORS:
> 
> 1. BAD SOCIALISATION... (EQUALLY THE MAIN CAUSE IN DOG TO HUMAN AGGRESSION.)
> 
> ...


I think every sentence of that is bollocks in my opinion. There are more than 2 reasons why a dog can be aggresive. The two you mentioned and many more. Fear is probably the most common.

Also its not garbage to say a dog can be aggresive to other dogs but not towards humans. You only have to look at the Staffordshire Bull Terriers breed history to know that they were bred to be very aggresive to dogs but not to humans hence the nickname 'nanny' dogs.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

and fear is a result of poor socialising at a young age... 

and it is a complete load of garbage: IF A DOG IS BADLY SOCIALISED LEADING TO DOG AGGRESSION ITS NOT A FAR LEAP FOR SAME DOG TO BE BADLY SOCIALISED TOWARDS STRANGERS TOO... dumb owners are dumb owners dont defend them....

There is no excuse to have an aggressive dog other than its a work in progress anything else is unacceptable. be it dog or person aggressive deal with it or destroy it!


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

ermgravy said:


> and fear is a result of poor socialising at a young age...
> 
> and it is a complete load of garbage: IF A DOG IS BADLY SOCIALISED LEADING TO DOG AGGRESSION ITS NOT A FAR LEAP FOR SAME DOG TO BE BADLY SOCIALISED TOWARDS STRANGERS TOO... dumb owners are dumb owners dont defend them....
> 
> There is no excuse to have an aggressive dog other than its a work in progress anything else is unacceptable. be it dog or person aggressive deal with it or destroy it!


Well now you have used caps lock it must be right.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

pfft what ever... its fine for the community on here to jump on the case of anyone who breeds they're dog or speaks about crosses as irresponsible dog owners but then you all jump on the defence of people who really do need to face facts and address either the fact they shouldn't own dogs or get off their lazy fat arses and do something about there pets problems...


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

ermgravy said:


> pfft what ever... its fine for the community on here to jump on the case of anyone who breeds they're dog or speaks about crosses as irresponsible dog owners but then you all jump on the defence of people who really do need to face facts and address either the fact they shouldn't own dogs or get off their lazy fat arses and do something about there pets problems...


The case made above is well made. Staffies are known for dog to dog aggression, but were bred so any human could touch them no matter what pain they were in. That may have been to so degree (large or small) diluted in the street versions of staffies today, but it goes a very long way to show that dog to dog aggression is very different in the mind of a dog than human aggression.

First off I am the one most defending dog to dog aggressive dogs and my dogs, both rescues, cannot be more friendly towards both people and dogs. In fact they provide therapy in care homes, and no I am not talking PAT dogs. My dogs work on a level way above the average PAT dog.

When you SHOUT about destroying peoples aggressive dogs you sound like someone coming from the very privileged position of having bought a puppy and being able to shape them to your liking. Most of the people on here will not be in that position. They will be on the other end of the lead of an aggressive dog because they are picking up the pieces of someone elses screw ups. Though the majority of rescues have few issues. Some of the people you are speaking to are holding together the pieces of those dogs that have had it harder. They are up doing something about it, but it is a very very long road. Where is the cut off for you? At what point do you turn to the dog you have taken on and tell them they are not learning quick enough so tomorrow off to the vets, you deserve to die now.

If you believe that dogs with dog to dog aggression should be destroyed then I am sure that there are at least two or three people on here that can arrange for you to help those dogs be killed. There is at least one person on here working in a pound who I am sure can let you be the one holding the dog whilst its life slips from it when its only crime is that it does not like other dogs. 

Yes that sounds melodramatic but unless you yourself are willing to be the one looking into their eyes as they die. Pull your bloody head out of your ass and do not expect others to kill them to keep the streets clear for you you crouton (copyrights on crouton to Rach1 I believe)


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

giant snail said:


> yup i do not hold a gun licecne letalong a gun. i have friends that do but they are never there when the dog it around:bash:


i was told by the fuzz to shoot the dog that tresspassed on my land killed all my poultry.

if he`d come calling again i think i`d have boxed him up and dropped him off at a rescue 50+ miles away instead though?

i`ve had dog and peopel agressive dogs before, i`m just not stupid/retarded enough to let them get in the situation that i`m going to end up in court for them killing anyone/anything.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

im half american and grown up in country my whole life i would be in no quandry to shoot my own or anyone else aggressive dog legal grounds permitting...

call me a crouton i own a four10... and hunting or shooting animals for a game or control really does not bother me...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Kare said:


> Most of the people on here will not be in that position. They will be on the other end of the lead of an aggressive dog because they are picking up the pieces of someone elses screw ups. Though the majority of rescues have few issues. Some of the people you are speaking to are holding together the pieces of those dogs that have had it harder. They are up doing something about it, but it is a very very long road. Where is the cut off for you? At what point do you turn to the dog you have taken on and tell them they are not learning quick enough so tomorrow off to the vets, you deserve to die now.
> 
> If you believe that dogs with dog to dog aggression should be destroyed then I am sure that there are at least two or three people on here that can arrange for you to help those dogs be killed. There is at least one person on here working in a pound who I am sure can let you be the one holding the dog whilst its life slips from it when its only crime is that it does not like other dogs.
> 
> Yes that sounds melodramatic but unless you yourself are willing to be the one looking into their eyes as they die. Pull your bloody head out of your ass and do not expect others to kill them to keep the streets clear for you you crouton (copyrights on crouton to Rach1 I believe)


As one of those people, can I just say* "Well said"* :notworthy:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

ermgravy said:


> im half american and grown up in country my whole life i would be in no quandry to shoot my own or anyone else aggressive dog legal grounds permitting...
> 
> call me a crouton i own a four10... and hunting or shooting animals for a game or control really does not bother me...


Yes I agree, on the whole Americans hold far lower standards of behaviour than we do in the UK. However any numpty can shoot an animal, it is impersonal and remote.

When you can hold a healthy young pet animal as it dies, then come back to me


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

its not about that tho is it read my post's... i made every allowance for 'works in progress'. its more down to ownership at end of days isnt it... 

With the exception of a few health issues 90% of aggression is trainable. Even though most of it is due to poor training in the first place... 

removing dogs form these owners who created them would go a long way as would breeders being more indepth with there selection process before selling pups in the first place rather than worrying about cash profits... 

But it is not physically possible for all the dogs muppets have created to be successfully get rehomed at which point im sorry but someone has to take the hard line attitude.

and in referance to you earlier post teh cut off point is when owner permit there dog to bite another dog...


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## azza23 (May 4, 2011)

barrow_matt said:


> Last night an evil little scottie dog with a bad reputation slipped his collar and attacked my 2 dogs. This dog pretty much hates all dogs and a few years ago attacked my Springer a couple of times and has attacked other dogs.
> 
> I know the owner, she lives a few houses away and I know she has been really trying with him at classes and behaviour training but clearly he isn't going to change and he is a dangerous dog. This wasn't a sniff that turned into a fight, he came running from the next street to attack them, she had held him for a few minutes as we walked past and we were just about home.
> 
> ...


my mother has a jack russel sort of like this, and she has to take mesures when shes out, a muzzle, and a secure lead with no letting it off its a right lil s:censor:t, tried in on with a pair of german sheapards once, i just thought "asif" :lol2: owners of aggresive dogs have to take extra messures, making sure the yard house is escape proof and no letting it off, and if your dog has wounds and is limping off to the vets you go:2thumb:


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

ermgravy said:


> its not about that tho is it read my post's... i made every allowance for 'works in progress'. its more down to ownership at end of days isnt it...
> 
> With the exception of a few health issues 90% of aggression is trainable. Even though most of it is due to poor training in the first place...
> 
> ...


How does that solve the problem?

I think, if someone has created a problem in a dog they've had since it was a pup, they should try their utmost to work it out and if they can't, manage it, and if they can't, rehome. People make mistakes, and people can underestimate the difference between breeds etc, but it doesn't make them a terrible person if they work towards changing it.

If all 'aggressive' dogs were seized, what would you do with them? One problem dog can be more effort than three or four well balanced, well socialised dogs - so why is it up to good homes who can produce near-perfect adult dogs to pick up the slack for other people's failings? 

What about high prey drive breeds, for instance? How many people own greyhounds without a hint of aggression towards humans that will merrily kill rabbits? Are these 'aggressive' dogs?

What about a Golden Retriever that gets on fine with everything EXCEPT one particular breed of dog due to a bad experience as a puppy? Or older dogs that get snappy around young exuberant puppies? What is it that you define as 'aggressive'?

While I think it's admirable that you're so keen to prevent aggressive dogs, I do wonder if you'll feel the same if your puppy has 'problems' with with other dogs upon hitting sexual maturity? 

Lots of questions, lots of issues.

I think in the case of giant snail's situation it is different - there doesn't seem like there can be much of a winner in the situation as a pitbull type is likely to be PTS if the authorities ever get around to seizing the dog... Also, worrying livestock is one of the worst offenses a dog can do, and falls down to the irresponsible attitude of the owner, which makes it even more horrible.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

thats just my point i have one of the biggest potentiel nightmares on the forum but i have enough experience and dominant and aggressive breeds and the confidence and research behind me to know my breed know what i purchased and the challenges im likely to face... But i also know how i intend to resolve every common issue that arises and am flexible enough to deal with any that i dont expect.... 

Ok i think even im guilty in previous post of blurring the lines of what i mean, just to clarify there needs to at some point be a line drawn between aggressive behaviour and dangerous and clearly that line is when owner looses control of animal and it bites... any animal with a risk of this should be leashed and muzzled... then if leash slips muzzle protects other animals...


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

My staffy will attack and bite other dogs who come bounding up and jump all over him, he doesn't understand they are playing. He is on the lead and wearing a muzzle the other dogs are off the lead and will not return to their owner when called.

I have had the dog since he was 9 weeks old. He was brought up in a household with 3 other dogs, was taken to all the puppy classes and obedience classes so had lots of socialisation and never showed any dog aggression. He is neutered and chipped and even tattood, fully vaccinated, insured, walked 2-3 times a day, plays with other dogs that he knows with no problems, plays with my girlfriends cats no problem and is absolutely fine with kids. But if a strange dog comes running out of no where and jumps all over him he will attack and bite. Thats why he is muzzled and always on the lead. I have tried all the usual training to get it out of him but he just does not like strange dogs jumping at him. According to you I should have him PTS which is just ridiculous in my eyes.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

Andy said:


> But if a strange dog comes running out of no where and jumps all over him he will attack and bite.


my dog is exactly the same,he doesn't suffer fools gladly.I bred him myself and he has always been a dominant character.He wasn't born the biggest pup but he worked his way up the milkbar knocking the others off the teats and by weaning was the biggest and fattest.The other pups hated him and by 9 weeks old it was unsafe to leave them together.He is 3 now, very well behaved and quiet but other dogs know and don't like him.He never runs up to others but I have lots of aggravation from the 'it's ok,my dogs friendly' brigade.Lot's of them aren't when faced with mine and many times I've had to swoop him high off the ground to save him from a 'friendly' dog who fancies his chances because it's reacted to 'get lost or I'm going to duff you up' signals from mine.He is very well socialised but he will never be a lighthearted lover of fellow canines,particularly over familiar ones with clueless owners.Sorry to veer off topic because of course owners of agressive dogs should always have control but equally so should the owners of dippy dogs.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

sarahc said:


> my dog is exactly the same,he doesn't suffer fools gladly.I bred him myself and he has always been a dominant character.He wasn't born the biggest pup but he worked his way up the milkbar knocking the others off the teats and by weaning was the biggest and fattest.The other pups hated him and by 9 weeks old it was unsafe to leave them together.He is 3 now, very well behaved and quiet but other dogs know and don't like him.He never runs up to others but I have lots of aggravation from the 'it's ok,my dogs friendly' brigade.Lot's of them aren't when faced with mine and many times I've had to swoop him high off the ground to save him from a 'friendly' dog who fancies his chances because it's reacted to 'get lost or I'm going to duff you up' signals from mine.He is very well socialised but he will never be a lighthearted lover of fellow canines,particularly over familiar ones with clueless owners.Sorry to veer off topic because of course owners of agressive dogs should always have control but equally so should the owners of dippy dogs.


Where I live currently is different from all other places I have lived in that it is expected for dogs to socialise. If they are off lead they are considered safe to approach and play. Especially on our favourite beach.

I really love it here but it took a little getting use to. Hard to reteach my dog new tricks, though they are both good and understand not to greet dogs on leads now the GSD is not happy to be greeted when she is on a lead. The issue I have is with flexileads. I wish so much the strings were not black so I can see that the aggressive terrier who is 30ft from the owner is still on a lead. (have to add never met an aggressive staffy on that beach, the terriers i mean are JRs, westies etc)


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## herp_derp (Nov 11, 2011)

Just read this thread from start to finish again, thanks to everyone for your comments.

As an update, this Sunday, same owner was out when my mum walked past with my dogs, one of her other dogs (she was walking 3, not sure if the evil Barney was one of them) pulled loose and ran across the road to have a good doggy argument with my 2, no attack though luckily.

Back to the previous attack, afterwards she said he would always be on a harness (since he slipped his neck collar) and I said he needs to be muzzled 100% of the time outside because I know from personal experience a pulling dog and tangle the lead in a way the clip can come open or even snap the clip itself, i've had both happen.

Anyway, today just out for a walk and her mum (who had the dog before she did, when he attacked my previous dog twice a few years back) was walking Barney with her 2, on a neck collar, without a muzzle!

I've told her she has left me no choice other than to report it which I did as soon as we got back, that is the attack and my opinion that the dog is still not being well enough controlled.

The owner (both her and her mum) are decent people and have spent a lot of time and money on training but if after 3 years he obviously isn't going to change, he must be a fairly old dog too.

I'm going to look at my options now, a court order regarding a muzzle would be minimum but I might have to go for PTS as awful as that is. I'm terrified walking my own dogs, it's probably affecting me more than them. I have anxiety problems and he is causing me a few sleepless nights over the past week or so. I can't walk my own dogs without being a nervous wreck.


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

My brother had a bad experience with a male Staffordshire Bull Terrier attacking my Rottweiler bitch while on a walk a few years ago. It jumped out of its garden to attack her while she was on a lead. The dog latched on to her side and wouldn't let go, meanwhile my dog did nothing but squeal like a pig and didn't retaliate. I'm certain it would have killed my dog, had my brother not grabbed it by the throat and chucked it back in its yard. 

I was all for going round and slapping the owners with vet bills, but sadly, the dog was owned by scum, so nothing good would have come from that. The dog warden didn't want to know when we reported it. Two weeks later the same dog went on to savage an 18-year-old lad. 

This could have been a lot worse and thankfully the wounds were only superficial. Missing fur is from vet's trimming skills. She now has a few white hairs that grow from the scar site. 



















Knowing that Carmen wont fight back if attacked, I worry for her safety when walking her. 

Now I have Amy, who ignores dogs, but wont take shit from them if challenged. I don't worry so much any more. 










Carmen and her protector, Amy. 










I'm all for doing things the right way, but sometimes you just have to protect yourself in the moment. If a small dog attacked any animal of mine, I'm afraid to say it would get a welly in the head.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

barrow_matt said:


> Just read this thread from start to finish again, thanks to everyone for your comments.....


You have made the right choice. and given her ample time to react in a proper way before doing so... 




Carlie said:


> My brother had a bad experience.....


gorgeous rotties! and glad to hear she was ok in the long run... im a firm believer in exactly that attitude... boot, stick what ever... protecting your pet is not a crime...


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Carlie said:


> My brother had a bad experience with a male Staffordshire Bull Terrier attacking my Rottweiler bitch while on a walk a few years ago. It jumped out of its garden to attack her while she was on a lead. The dog latched on to her side and wouldn't let go, meanwhile my dog did nothing but squeal like a pig and didn't retaliate. I'm certain it would have killed my dog, had my brother not grabbed it by the throat and chucked it back in its yard.
> 
> I was all for going round and slapping the owners with vet bills, but sadly, the dog was owned by scum, so nothing good would have come from that. The dog warden didn't want to know when we reported it. Two weeks later the same dog went on to savage an 18-year-old lad.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, I don't *like* the story, but I do like your dogs :flrt:
Also, barrow_matt, I am gutted for you that even though they're nice people they're such irresponsible dog owners - I hope a court order will get things back to where they should be.


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## craiggee (Feb 4, 2012)

I haven't read all of this topic as it would take to long but I've just read the last page and it is a shame about the "put em to sleep" attitude. I shoot game and other stuff, but theres no way i could shoot my best friend!!!
Reading on the points about some dogs don't like other dogs bouncing up to him when he's on the lead my dogs the same. He's managed to grab two Staffies that did just that to him. And he even took on two American bulldogs at once. I've been told that could be two different things. Either they are protecting their owner from a possible threat. Or they feel vulnerable on the lead so strike first. I rescued my dog 3 years ago from a homeless lady on the city streets of Oxford. At the time he was scared of his own shadow. He would attack anyone wearing a hoody. And if you shouted or swore then he peed everywhere. In the three years he has permanently been around other dogs and cats. Including: a staffie, a rotty, a rotty x collie and two German shepherds. But I still can't let him off the lead as he won't get on with strangers dogs.








This is him sharing his water with the cat whilst he eats his dinner.








This is him snuggled with the rotty. 








Snuggled with the staff. 








Sharing his bed with the cat. Some dogs are just protective and defensive. There's no stopping it. I use a flexi lead but it's a wide tape one (not a wire one lol) as this give him that little bit of freedom with my full control.


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## Carlie (Sep 27, 2006)

What does your Rotty / Collie look like, craiggee? I had a Rotty crossed with a Border Collie and she was beautiful. Rottweiler build, same colour, but with Border Collie long fur. I loved that dog. Sadly she died of lung cancer, which was secondary to a brain tumour. I mourned for about 10 years. 

Made myself sad now.


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## craiggee (Feb 4, 2012)

The rotty x collie is my brothers dog and I haven't got any pics. But by your description it sounds the same. Beautiful dog just extremely boisterous at times lol


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## craiggee (Feb 4, 2012)

I just stole the only pic of him from my brothers Facebook.








And I thought I'd throw this one in as well. Hehe.










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