# Internal bleeding?!



## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Hi

I have a 2 week old leopard gecko, which has been eating/ shedding fine until last night. She had a dark splodge on her belly and didn't eat.

I went to do her tonight, and there are drops of blood all over the kitchen roll. And it looks like it has been coming out her vent as well as maybe her mouth (she had dry blood around her bottom lip and on her feet)

She is still moving around fine and looks happy, but won't eat again. Iv spoken to some very trusted Leo keepers on here, but they haven't come across this, so now I'm asking incase anyone has.

I have spoken to the vet, she can't see the little one till tomorrow. All temps etc are normal.

It is now a desperate cry for help for anyone who has been through this.

I reasearched internal bleeding but not a lot was said. She hasent been dropped or anything like that, for her to have hurt herself.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## rita1 (Aug 24, 2012)

oh poor little thing, i hope that someone can help you.
there must be someone on here with all there experiences that can help you. good luck with the little fellow.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

rita1 said:


> oh poor little thing, i hope that someone can help you.
> there must be someone on here with all there experiences that can help you. good luck with the little fellow.


Thank you, I am just hoping someone knows something to help her get through the night  

It's going to be a long night...it seems online not a lot has been said other than vets or the gecko will die 

But the vets can't see me till first thing tomorrow


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Sorry haven't experienced this and I hope she'll be ok.

Has she been passing faeces normally? As she's so young could it be an internal defect that she's always had but gone unnoticed until now? Or internal damage caused by livefood? Sorry, I'm only throwing ideas out there but hope it's nothing serious.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

vgorst said:


> Sorry haven't experienced this and I hope she'll be ok.
> 
> Has she been passing faeces normally? As she's so young could it be an internal defect that she's always had but gone unnoticed until now? Or internal damage caused by livefood? Sorry, I'm only throwing ideas out there but hope it's nothing serious.


 
Thank-you, yes shes been passing them fine, she even did one yesterday, when she had the dark splodge. 

And i hope not  she was eating meal worms and crickets like crazy until yesterday. Obviously very very tiny ones. Width between her eyes.

So i have no idea if they could have done that to her....BUMP please there must be someone who has experienced this


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Is it only crickets and mealworms she has been eating? 

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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Have you sprayed anything around her, such as deodorant, perfume, polish etc?


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

LovLight said:


> Is it only crickets and mealworms she has been eating?
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2


 
Locusts too, but only those three types of food, nothing else


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

vgorst said:


> Have you sprayed anything around her, such as deodorant, perfume, polish etc?


 
Nope, i never use deodrants or perfumes in the same room as my reptiles for fear of inhaling any of it, and no polish either


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Lozzypozz said:


> Locusts too, but only those three types of food, nothing else


When was the last time she had locust? As they have a defence mechanism which means they can excrete a sticky reddish brown substance from their mouths that can look a lot like drops of blood, especially on kitchen roll. If the gecko has been eating them/walking over them it could explain it being on the body. I sometimes have to wipe this horrid stuff off of some of my own geckos. 
In a gecko so young it is not unusual to see a dark mass on the belly, particularly after they have eaten and since you've said that she is eating and pooping I'm wondering if this 'blood' could well be for lack of a better term, locust barf?
Do you have a picture of the offending substance at all? 

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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

LovLight said:


> When was the last time she had locust? As they have a defence mechanism which means they can excrete a sticky reddish brown substance from their mouths that can look a lot like drops of blood, especially on kitchen roll. If the gecko has been eating them/walking over them it could explain it being on the body. I sometimes have to wipe this horrid stuff off of some of my own geckos.
> In a gecko so young it is not unusual to see a dark mass on the belly, particularly after they have eaten and since you've said that she is eating and pooping I'm wondering if this 'blood' could well be for lack of a better term, locust barf?
> Do you have a picture of the offending substance at all?
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2


 
I breed locusts, its definitely not the locust juice unfourtently  im uploading pictures as i type this, so will get them on here, i got a picture of the little ones belly too, first time i have properly looked as i havent wanted to disturb her. But need to find out. And its definitely not a normal red blotch that youngsters sometimes get, i wish it was


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

*Pictures*

Here is the little one looking very sorry for herself 











Here is the blood on the kitchen roll (had to uncrinkle it, as i have since clenaed it out)











And here is her belly :'(


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

You cant see it very well in the pictures, but she has blood around her vent, on her feet and her bottom lip.


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Oh dear me 
No your very right that's certainly not locust vomit and the belly looks very sunken in that first pic and not at all normal in the third. 
I've not seen anything like that before myself so other than the vetinary appointment you've already made I wouldn't want to hazzard a guess at anything past that. 
Do you know what substrate she was kept on where you purchased? 

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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

LovLight said:


> Oh dear me
> No your very right that's certainly not locust vomit and the belly looks very sunken in that first pic and not at all normal in the third.
> I've not seen anything like that before myself so other than the vetinary appointment you've already made I wouldn't want to hazzard a guess at anything past that.
> Do you know what substrate she was kept on where you purchased?
> ...


 
 i am very worried and this night cant go any slower, i just want the vets to see her, and she has always been on kitchen roll. So she cant have impaction, so i honestly dont know what i can do, i just wanted to try and make the night easier for her, as apperently its very painful for them :|


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm sure its something you've already done but all I can suggest for the moment is to put her in a small braplast style box on fresh kitchen paper and remove everything bar a hide and small water dish. I would aldo keep the kitchen paper with the blood on just incase the vet can use it to sample and if possible swab the vent area where the blood is with a moist q-tip and pop that in a clean sandwich bag in the fridge for the same purpose. 

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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Lozzypozz said:


> i am very worried and this night cant go any slower, i just want the vets to see her, and she has always been on kitchen roll. So she cant have impaction, so i honestly dont know what i can do, i just wanted to try and make the night easier for her, as apperently its very painful for them :|


It sounds like you are doing everything possible for the little one to give her a fighting chance. 
All that can really be done is to leave her be in a quiet place as much as the urge to keep checking must be strong. 
I do very much hope it is something treatable poor mite. 

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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

How have you gotten on overnight? 

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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Unfourtently the little one had to be PTS  the vet said that I had done everything I could, but she had compacted moss inside her 

Now I never fed her in her moss hide, the vet said it could have been whilst she was shedding. And that it was a very unlucky case. 

This has put me off moss, but the vet said its needed for humidity etc. 

Very sad


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

*big hugs.....*

_*Big hugs for you hun, couldn't have done any more for her, 
Pm'd you again :grouphug:*_


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Oh no that is sad 
I'm very sorry for your loss. 
I have mixed feelings about moss myself as a couple of years back I came home to find Alma, one of my geckos who was only small at the time, choking mid shed on a long piece that had caught on the skin she was eating. I was absolutely mortified as well as terrified as it was sheer luck I'd come home early and had gone to my room to check her. Thankfully I was able to remove the piece of moss and no damage was done. However from that day to this I have never used moss as a moist hide substrate for a gecko that is under 50g. Instead I use moistened kitchen paper, it does need to be changed and re-moistened a bit more frequently but it is at least safe. 
You can never really foresee these things though and I am just so sorry that you have been so unlucky. You did all you possibly could. 
R.I.P lil gecko. 

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## AnnieM (Nov 4, 2011)

Very sorry for your loss.  x


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

I am moving all of mine onto flannels now, and misting them daily. Ill use moss perhaps if I decide to go into breeding but only for the laying females. 

Unfourtently it's one of these lessons that I really didn't want to learn, as I have always been told moss has been fine for all ages. But obviously not  

The vet didn't say anything about not using I either.... Just that he was happy to hear mine were on kitchen roll as he gets too many cases of impaction because of sand. 

I am very much in a mess. And I'm just glad I sorted the little one with the vet. They said I had done everything I could.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

AnnieM said:


> Very sorry for your loss.  x


Thank you, very sad time  trying not to over think things I could have/ should have done :|


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## AnnieM (Nov 4, 2011)

Sounds to me as though you did everything you could once you realised there was a problem. These things are called accidents for a reason. Don't beat yourself up about it, things happen and all we can do is learn from it, which it sounds as though you have done with moving your others onto flannel.  Take care x


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Really sorry to hear you lost the little un. Im afraoid it does happen if the gecko sheds actually in the moss box. Often the moss simply passes through but obviously it was too much for such a tiny gecko. It was NOT your fault though, just an unlucky accident. Please try not to beat yourself up over it. Your a fantastic keeper.

Personally I would and do use damp kitchen roll in moist hided. It can be replaced at every spraying. The moist box is a perfect place for bacteria to grow, moss, flannels, eco.earth serve as great culture mediums. Out of breeding season all of ours end up with kitchen roll in their moist hide.


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

AnnieM said:


> Sounds to me as though you did everything you could once you realised there was a problem. These things are called accidents for a reason. Don't beat yourself up about it, things happen and all we can do is learn from it, which it sounds as though you have done with moving your others onto flannel.  Take care x


 
Aw thank-you, and it seems i have been blessed by the gecko gods with a second chance as i have just had a leo hatch from the same parentage and it looks identical to the one who passed away. 

Although by the looks of what mal is saying, they will all stay on kitchen roll i think lol 

thank-you for alll your support


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## Lozzypozz (Jun 25, 2011)

Mal said:


> Really sorry to hear you lost the little un. Im afraoid it does happen if the gecko sheds actually in the moss box. Often the moss simply passes through but obviously it was too much for such a tiny gecko. It was NOT your fault though, just an unlucky accident. Please try not to beat yourself up over it. Your a fantastic keeper.
> 
> Personally I would and do use damp kitchen roll in moist hided. It can be replaced at every spraying. The moist box is a perfect place for bacteria to grow, moss, flannels, eco.earth serve as great culture mediums. Out of breeding season all of ours end up with kitchen roll in their moist hide.


Thank-you Mal, i was just saying that i have been blessed with a second chance as i have just had a baby leo hatch out identical to the one who passed away.

Thank-you very much :blush: i do try, as i always say dont have the animal if you cant afford the vet!

Ok i will stick to the kitchen roll  Like you said it is much cleaner, because i clean it out with every spray.

I cannot wait to get your little ones here, all there homes are all set up, ready and waiting for them. The courier cant go fast enough!  :flrt:


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Congrats on your new little one. S/he has been very fortunate to be been to such a good loving home and no doubt will thrive.
Pics when you get a chance please. 

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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

Sorry about your loss  Please don't blame yourself as it wasn't your fault. It is a learning curve for everyone I won't be using moss again for our leo 
-Chels


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## Geeecko (Aug 19, 2012)

Shucks these threads always end up upsetting me.

I am so sorry you lost her xx

I am certainly going to opt for kitchen roll now.


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