# Big Cats??



## Xiorell (Aug 15, 2007)

Anyone know what the deal is with keeping large cats is, here in UK??

I'm not talking about Lions or Tigers. More along the lines of a Lynx.

DWA? Impossible to find? What?


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## Scoffa (Nov 23, 2006)

Used to have a big cat coming into my back garden until the redtailed buzzard scared it off.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Xiorell said:


> Anyone know what the deal is with keeping large cats is, here in UK??
> 
> I'm not talking about Lions or Tigers. More along the lines of a Lynx.
> 
> DWA? Impossible to find? What?


Hiya, 

If you are not talking the big cats, but purely the smaller ones, then you would be looking at the likes, of Asian Leopard Cats, Servals, Lynx, Geoffroys, Wild Cats either Scottish or European, even Ocelot, there are a few others, not so readily available.

Keeping them, will come down to 

1] Your actual space that you have available 
2] Your council and their political stance on whether or not they are going to pass you a DWAL if the species you are looking at requires such a licence.
3] Your knoweldge, research and undertaking to actually and physically look after and maintain a cat species.
4] The actual availability of the species you are looking to secure.

We are currently client handling a female Asian Leopard Cat DWAL, as well as a pair of female Servals, again DWAL.

We have Ocelots which have just come out of quarantine for clients, and in the main come the spring, we are offered in the region of 30 or so various cat species from European private collections and zoos.

British zoos, may, l point the word 'may' out - may decide to rehome cat species to what they class as professional keepers.

Ironically l am as l write this talking to an Ocelot owner. But there are not many specialised cat keepers in the UK, say for instance as many primate keepers as there are.

Peter James was probably one of the biggest private collectors of cats, but due to illness he is now out of the running.

Its not that they are not there, but the ones that are, are either secured already to big cat collections, game parks, or as already discussed zoos.

Then you must also consider price, if you secure from a 'game park' it may be fairly reasonable, if you buy from a private collector it may not be. If you secure from Europe, then your cat/s must under go six months quarantine, at a rough cost of £1950 or £75 per week.

If you can find a quarantine centre you would be doing very well, especially for some of the medium sized cats, and if you can not then you may decide to self quarantine, which means building your own centre which must be DEFRA approved. You will then have that cost to consider.

Once you have secured your cats/possibly quarantined/built the centre also...then you must look at the running costs of the species themselves, plus your as said licencing costs, your public liability, not forgetting your transporting insurances if from Europe, as well as your freight costs, and your additional quarantine vehicle costs.

It can be a tremendously expensive business.

I imported a Cheetah two years ago, lovely 16 week old animal, from Germany, the cat cost £7,000 and the costs and everything else eventually totalled at roughly £11,000.

It might be better for you look at Camels or even Penguins which are cheaper by far all told.

Rory


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hiya,
> It might be better for you look at Camels or even Penguins which are cheaper by far all told.
> 
> Rory


That has to be one of the most random things you could have come out with Rory :crazy:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Ray, 

You are spot on, l am not even quite sure why l wrote that tbh.

I think because l imported a pair of Camels into the UK last year at a total cost of £7,000 and l am selling four Humboldt Penguins at present which work out at E7000 to another client.

Bizarre, l agree

LOL

R


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## rock-steady (Oct 30, 2007)

I have been looking into Ocelots for a couple of years now I defiantly have the space for an enclosure but have not tried for a licence as I live relatively close to a RAF base so think it would be unfair on them, all the noise but maybe one day lol


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

As suggested above, they are DWA and you must go through the procedure. Unless you have some real money behind you, you can forget about the bigger cats.

If you're just interested, here's some prices for the bigger cats from one of my suppliers:

Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus) - 10,000 euros
Civit (Civettictis civeta) - 600 euros (not a cat!)
Servel (Felis serval) - 1,400 euros
wild cat (Felis sylvestris) - 400 euros
Lion (Panthera leo) - 20,000 euros

to put things in perspective, a hippo is 7000 euros, and a giraffe 6000, baboons about 600 depending on type. Shipping comes in at about £8 per kg of bodyweight (which means the hippo isn't the good deal it looks like :lol2

Very quick disclaimer - I don't source animals for other people. PLEASE don't PM me for contacts unless you're already keeping them, in which case there's no need anyway : victory:


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## ThatLittleBlondeThing (Jan 31, 2008)

The way some of you people talk about these animals make it sounds like you have some warehouse somewhere full of things you can sell off to the highest bidder.


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

ThatLittleBlondeThing said:


> The way some of you people talk about these animals make it sounds like you have some warehouse somewhere full of things you can sell off to the highest bidder.


That's not that far from reality actually.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

ThatLittleBlondeThing said:


> The way some of you people talk about these animals make it sounds like you have some warehouse somewhere full of things you can sell off to the highest bidder.


where do you think pet shop animals come from?


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## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

Mason said:


> where do you think pet shop animals come from?


There is a slight difference between hamsters and hippos tho!


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I've always wanted a 'pet' lion!! Its just one of them things that i think a lot of people want when they're younger, but now i'm in reality, i think i'd rather keep my arm and save the money for a house instead!!: victory:


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## ThatLittleBlondeThing (Jan 31, 2008)

I'd hardly call a cheetah or a white lion a pet shop animal. Even when i was a child i never watch David Attenborough and though " Aww, isnt it pretty!! I wonder if i could get a cat litter tray big enough so i could keep it in my living room?"


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

People do keep them as 'pets' though and how do you define a pet shop animal, because i bet most people wouldn't consider snakes as pets!!: victory:


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## SisterMoonbeam (Jan 28, 2008)

:notworthy: hehe


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## Storm Python (Jan 10, 2008)

ThatLittleBlondThing! I think someone should point out that this forum isn't just for hobbyists its also for serious breeders & traders of All types of exotic animals.
Just because you never thought about wanting a lion, or similar doesnt mean others dont.
If you have the time, space, money & licence to keep said animals them if its for the anomals benefit than why not.
How do you think captive breeding of endangered species works.


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

SisterMoonbeam said:


> There is a slight difference between hamsters and hippos tho!


Yeah - about 6997 euros. Other than that, they're lined up in enclosures, you pay your money and take your choice.


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## ThatLittleBlondeThing (Jan 31, 2008)

Didnt know that... learn something new everyday i guess... I just dont agree that such rare animals should be given a price, if you know what i mean. I agree with the terrific benefits of captive breeding programmes though, dont get me wrong.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

If they were free, then little sh*ts would just get them to mistreat them etc.

No one is going to pay £7000 for a hippo and then mistreat it.... or i doubt they would!!: victory:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

ThatLittleBlondeThing said:


> The way some of you people talk about these animals make it sounds like you have some warehouse somewhere full of things you can sell off to the highest bidder.


you'd be surprised what can be got pretty easily


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

ThatLittleBlondeThing said:


> Didnt know that... learn something new everyday i guess... I just dont agree that such rare animals should be given a price, if you know what i mean. I agree with the terrific benefits of captive breeding programmes though, dont get me wrong.


 There's more captive Tigers in Texas than in the wild...Fact
MIKE


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## SelinaRealm (Sep 16, 2006)

snakewispera snr said:


> There's more captive Tigers in Texas than in the wild...Fact
> MIKE


That is true, I recently read that there are over 10,000 tigers kept privately in captivity in the USA. Thats more than in the wild.

Yes, it will be really sad if they disappear from their natural habital. However, still having the species exist in the world at all through captive breeding has got to be better than having none at all.


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## BarryScott (Jan 11, 2008)

ThatLittleBlondeThing said:


> Didnt know that... learn something new everyday i guess... I just dont agree that such rare animals should be given a price, if you know what i mean. I agree with the terrific benefits of captive breeding programmes though, dont get me wrong.


It's a tough one. The truth behind the pretty little shops you see is pretty gruesome much of the time. Regarding the rares - harvesting wilds under licence, monitored by a government, is making use of a natural resource in very poor countries to inject foreign money into the economy. Business in many of these is done differently, as is animal keeping. The west, and the UK in particular has probably the highest standards in the world - which means that go anywhere else and you might get upset.

Taking animals out into private collections, and breeding programs gives a nice, healthy captive gene pool.

Remember too that many of the animals are hated in the native countries. Tigers are feared and killed where possible. Hippos and elephants sometimes too.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah, you do have to see it from the natives' point of view!!

If they kill a Tiger, for example, they could get about £8,000 which could buy their families food, water, shelter etc. for the next couple of years, plus it gets rid of a potential death threat to them, their family and their livestock.

I'm not saying that what they do is right, because it is very cruel and is destroying the tiger population, but i can see the benefits if i look at it from their perspective.

I think it is inevitable that Tigers will become extinct in the wild, but as long as we keep a nice captive breeding program going then hopefully numbers will rise and they can be released into the wild again.

Hopefully we can do the same for all animals that are endangered.

Anyway back to the original topic...


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## Myo (Feb 14, 2008)

bradhollands999 said:


> I think it is inevitable that Tigers will become extinct in the wild, but as long as we keep a nice captive breeding program going then hopefully numbers will rise and they can be released into the wild again.


 
I'd heard that captive tigers can't be released into the wild as tigers don't have an instinct to hunt, they learn it. If they're captive no one teaches them to hunt and so they don't know how. I saw a documentory about two guys who released the first two captive bred tigers into the wild, but they taught the tigers to hunt first which was a long winded process!

It was mad though, after handling the tigers for years and taking so much time to train them to hunt they ended up releasing the tigers into a game park in africa, thus causing a big comotion and contraversy over the fact that there shouldn't be wild tigers in africa!


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## Myo (Feb 14, 2008)

just reaslised this thread is months old... crap.


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## secuner (Feb 2, 2008)

so? if its kept going then why not. i personally want to breed wolves and leopards if i get a dwa licence in later years.


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## glenjih (Mar 26, 2009)

Okay, I'm glad I found this thread as

a) its the main reason I registered on this forum
and
b) everyone seems to have at least a reasonable idea of what they're talking about.

I say this because I've been looking high and low for any information on keeping a Lynx (or bobcat, if you prefer). I'm an animal behaviour student at Exeter University at the moment but would like to look into keeping these animals when i finish my studies (whilst I know an undergrad. degree doesn't make me an expert I think I could probably deal with the needs of one small/medium sized cat).

If anyone could point me in the direction of breeders, information concerning legal rights etc I'd be very grateful.

Glen


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## glenjih (Mar 26, 2009)

heeeelllllp


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

speak to Rory who posted the long info at the start of his thread.


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## mapturtle007 (Jan 26, 2011)

tska rory matier were do you get these penguins and camels,hippos etc you say from europe but do you get them from a breeder / wholesale ?


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## geckodelta (Dec 11, 2008)

mapturtle007 said:


> tska rory matier were do you get these penguins and camels,hippos etc you say from europe but do you get them from a breeder / wholesale ?


X2 i look at dwa animals all of the time and ive never seen a penguin :lol2:


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