# best starter dwa snake?



## nuggett5 (Sep 14, 2007)

was just wondering what would be a good starter dwa snake? not going to do the jump yet was just thinking.


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

IMO there is no good starter venomous snake... as all can do serious damage or kill




If i had to go with somthing, maybe a Copperhead, or V Ammo.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

there is no right answer really mate, find a mentor and get a grasp of handling some different snakes, my first venomous snake was a Vipera ammodytes


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Get a nasty normal snake and treat it like a hot. And find a trainer.


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

I've had a puff adder and a green bush viper for about 9 hours, not dead or disfigured yet so they can't be as bad starters!:2thumb:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

As others have said before me, there are no "trainer" hots, only real ones, all of which will do you damage. For my 2p worth, I'd go for a Trimeresurus trigonocephalus, although they are hard to get and expensive, they are reasonably docile and their venom is not that strong, but they are bloody quick if/when they do strike!

Buy a WC rat snake and play with that a while, if that doesn't put you off, decide what you want to keep, find someone who keeps them then beg/plead for mentoring off them


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

400runner said:


> I've had a puff adder and a green bush viper for about 9 hours, not dead or disfigured yet so they can't be as bad starters!:2thumb:


id like a puff how is it for you, is it aggressive?


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

SiUK said:


> id like a puff how is it for you, is it aggressive?


trying to be, its so tiny its just funny! just about to put some pictures on, its a lovely little snake, the atheris is out of this world as well!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Get pics up asap matey

And some size references please


ta

Dec


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

400runner said:


> trying to be, its so tiny its just funny! just about to put some pictures on, its a lovely little snake, the atheris is out of this world as well!


 congratulations mate


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

People might/will disagree with me, but I still hold to my opinion that the best 'starter' DWA snake there is has to be a Rattler, you get tail rattling, hissing, 's'ing up, more hissing, more tail rattling, then a strike.

You can't really blame anything other than your own stupidity for getting tagged by your normal rattler in a viv/tub.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

dont know mate, rattlers have incredible strikes and most common you see are western diamond backs they get big and have horrible venom, mistakes are very costly when working with them


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

Young_Gun said:


> People might/will disagree with me, but I still hold to my opinion that the best 'starter' DWA snake there is has to be a Rattler, you get tail rattling, hissing, 's'ing up, more hissing, more tail rattling, then a strike.
> 
> You can't really blame anything other than your own stupidity for getting tagged by your normal rattler in a viv/tub.


 would disagree with that for several reasons but it all depends on the individual snake and person involved


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SiUK said:


> dont know mate, rattlers have incredible strikes and most common you see are western diamond backs they get big and have horrible venom, mistakes are very costly when working with them


Aye I know, but I have only ever seen/dealt with one single WDB that didn't give the usual minute or so of warning before actually striking.

I just think it's a viable alternative, because if you don't take the numerous warnings as a hint to knob off, you shouldn't really be having anythin at all.



jaysnakeman said:


> would disagree with that for several reasons but it all depends on the individual snake and person involved


What reasons other than the venom/size issues?


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Ive worked with a few different WDB, and they dont tend to "S" up... ive had em strike just out of the blue

And

They do have horrific venom


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

Young_Gun said:


> What reasons other than the venom/size issues?


 well the two you have mentioned plus the speed over the ground, strike range, strike speed and i would say many are very willing to bite from the off


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

jaysnakeman said:


> well the two you have mentioned plus the speed over the ground, strike range, strike speed and i would say many are very willing to bite from the off


Ah well, I stand by what I said, I have only ever worked/dealt with one that wouldn't give you a good amount of warning before striking.


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## Wills reptiles (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm not a Dwa person myself, but one of my best mates is,,,his favorite snake of all, and which I would get is a sheild nose coral snake...they are very pretty snakes, they are one of the fastest striking snakes, but have trouble injecting the poision, no one I know actually knows the danger of the venom as i dont think it has injected any1.. My mate has been struck by them afew times, with no reaction.... they are back fanged snakes... They get so tame aswell...he takes them out and handles them all the time!!! I mite get an anery pair, well eventually. My mate was bitten by a copperhead, said it was the most painful thing he has felt!!! Anyway, its a snake to look into before u make up ur mind,,,,let us know wat u end up getting..


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## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

as many others have said find a mentor its the best way there is. but i started out with a southern pacific rattler absolutly stunning guy he is too but id say Cerastes cerastes could be a good starter or maybe Sistrurus miliarius. but all in all there is no real good starter hot they can all do serious damage or death


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I'd go down the mentor path as well.... I've seen hundreds of venomous snakes in vivs and never had a problem with any of them... The problems begin when you need to move them, feed them, clean out the viv or just check the snake over...... A good mentor can show you the protocol that has kept them from being bit, and help you understand what a particular snake is likely to be capable of....Plus they are on hand if your techniques for handling go awry. 
They can also show you the best vivs to use.....
You can never top experience.....


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi all,
Just for the record, Shield Nosed Snakes are not rear fanged, they are front fixed fanged, (proteroglyphous ) Elapids, and as such, should be handled with care. I know they can be placid, but I have seen them turn and bite. There has been a confirmed death from their bite, a four year old boy.
All the best,
Brian.


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## mant01 (Aug 23, 2008)

What are Gaboons like to own? are they aggressive?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

generally no, but they have ridiculously fast strikes, can strike out of nowhere with very little warning and have massive fangs and venom yeilds.


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## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

SiUK said:


> generally no, but they have ridiculously fast strikes, can strike out of nowhere with very little warning and have massive fangs and venom yeilds.


Look cool though


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## saddleninja (Aug 31, 2008)

tigersnake said:


> Hi all,
> Just for the record, Shield Nosed Snakes are not rear fanged, they are front fixed fanged, (proteroglyphous ) Elapids, and as such, should be handled with care. I know they can be placid, but I have seen them turn and bite. There has been a confirmed death from their bite, a four year old boy.
> All the best,
> Brian.


 hi tigersnake is that brian from treorchy,with the awesome collection in the basement, if it is, i had a couple of corns off you a couple of years ago and a personell tour of your set up, many thanks again for those snakes and your time
leon


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Leon,
No, sadly Brian does not keep snakes any more, he gave it up about a year ago. It is a great shame, he was a great bloke with a great collection.
All the best,
Brian.


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## ljkenny (Mar 5, 2007)

Just the thought of this Brian owning a Corn Snake amuses me greatly!


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## saddleninja (Aug 31, 2008)

ljkenny said:


> Just the thought of this Brian owning a Corn Snake amuses me greatly!


they were rescued snakes that he had, like brian said hes a great bloke


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

:lol2:


ljkenny said:


> Just the thought of this Brian owning a Corn Snake amuses me greatly!


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

Wills reptiles said:


> I'm not a Dwa person myself, but one of my best mates is,,,his favorite snake of all, and which I would get is a sheild nose coral snake...they are very pretty snakes, they are one of the fastest striking snakes, but have trouble injecting the poision, no one I know actually knows the danger of the venom as i dont think it has injected any1.. My mate has been struck by them afew times, with no reaction.... they are back fanged snakes... They get so tame aswell...he takes them out and handles them all the time!!! I mite get an anery pair, well eventually. My mate was bitten by a copperhead, said it was the most painful thing he has felt!!! Anyway, its a snake to look into before u make up ur mind,,,,let us know wat u end up getting..


not surprised your mate got bitten if he's free handling elapids:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Lee,
Could you please tell me what a Corn Snake is.:whistling2:
All the best,
Brian.


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## ljkenny (Mar 5, 2007)

tigersnake said:


> Hi Lee,
> Could you please tell me what a Corn Snake is.:whistling2:
> All the best,
> Brian.


:lol2:

I'll explain in Holland!


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

The best first hot is the family of snakes you are looking to keep eventually. If you are a freak for elapids, its pointless keeping a puff adder. There is very little a puff is going to teach you about maintaining and handling elapids, The converse is also true, keeping a large agro ratsnake won't teach how to manipulate a puff adder.

If you want to keep vipers, puff adders are a good choice as they are hardy snakes, and relatively easy to work with.
If you want to keep elapids, something like a Rinkhals is a good starter. Yes, they spit but hardly ever try and bite and are actually real bluff artists. They hope that all the huffing and puffing will chase you away.
Other good starter elapids are Snouted Cobras. Large animals, and generally settle down very well into a captive environment quickly,


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## Zeeman (Aug 15, 2008)

That i know of you can actually handle most vens..as hatchlings
until they are a month old


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

Zeeman said:


> That i know of you can actually handle most vens..as hatchlings
> until they are a month old


 your crazy


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

Look at the malaysian Blue coral snake they are really nice.


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## rc10andy (Jun 16, 2008)

A good venamous starter would be a Black Mamba or a King Cobra or why not go for the taipan....now they are friendly:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## DannyCRS (Jul 8, 2008)

Or get a komodo dragon instead of a snake.:lol2:


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## ljkenny (Mar 5, 2007)

Zeeman said:


> That i know of you can actually handle most vens..as hatchlings
> until they are a month old


Let me know how that goes for you!


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Zeeman said:


> That i know of you can actually handle most vens..as hatchlings
> until they are a month old


 Where did you learn this?.....
And even if it is true, how does that help you after the first month?.....


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## southwest vipers (Jun 29, 2008)

DannyCRS said:


> Look at the malaysian Blue coral snake they are really nice.












There is no best starter venomous snakes but lots of worst ones.


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## mustang100893 (Nov 16, 2009)

There is no good starter but how about a Rhino viper, they are relatviely slow and rarely bite, also have beautiful colouration


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

mustang100893 said:


> There is no good starter but how about a Rhino viper, they are relatviely slow and rarely bite, also have beautiful colouration


I've kept over 40 rhino vipers since 1989 and believe me they're anything but slow. Western rhinos will bite without warning and you've no chance of getting out of the way.
They certainly strike out more often than gaboons and puffs, although the puff adder will get very defensive and usually give plenty of warning.

Rhino vipers are not the hardiest of captives either, if one aspect of husbandry is missing they are very unforgiving and will die prematurely. They require plenty of privacy , something that newbie keepers find hard to stick to as they want to look at the snake and have it on display

Genuine CB nasicornis are far and few between and imports suffer with parasite infestations and gastro' infections. These infections can be cured but will flare up again if the animal suffers any stress. 

Cheers,
Al


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

mustang100893 said:


> There is no good starter but how about a Rhino viper, they are relatviely slow and rarely bite, also have beautiful colouration


Listen to Al Hyde as HE KNOWS!


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

mustang100893 said:


> There is no good starter but how about a Rhino viper,* they are relatviely slow and rarely bite, also have beautiful colouration*


One out of three.... Good going...Not... LOL


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Couldn't you get an adder or something?
haha I don't know my snakes. Just thought I'd add that!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

ipreferaflan said:


> Couldn't you get an adder or something?
> haha I don't know my snakes. Just thought I'd add that!


NO NO No !

A dumb stupid suggestion for so many reasons!

A quick answer..they are native species and protected, they are nationally in decline, they are far more dangerous than given credit for, they are not easy to keep in captivity.........

I could say more but I'm busy shouting at the computer in sheer frustration and anger!:blahblah:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> NO NO No !
> 
> A dumb stupid suggestion for so many reasons!
> 
> ...


:lol2: calm down Graeme................Adders make wonderful pets, so what if they won't eat, when it dies just go and get another...............


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> :lol2: calm down Graeme................Adders make wonderful pets, so what if they won't eat, when it dies just go and get another...............


Look Like Paul and I are going to blow a major fuse on this shite sorry I mean site!


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

slippery42 said:


> Look Like Paul and I are going to blow a major fuse on this shite sorry I mean site!


I hope you realise that I was being sarcastic on that last post and in no way would recommend taking our native herps as pets


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## kettykev (May 15, 2009)

I hope you have calmed down a bit as I would like to ask a genuine question regarding Adders.Is there a difference in how they react to captivity compared to other european vipers such as Ammodytes?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> I hope you realise that I was being sarcastic on that last post and in no way would recommend taking our native herps as pets


Yes I did buddie however young James and his dim threads are doing my head in !:censor:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

kettykev said:


> I hope you have calmed down a bit as I would like to ask a genuine question regarding Adders.Is there a difference in how they react to captivity compared to other european vipers such as Ammodytes?


Ammos are quite good in captivity and breed very well, Vipera berus on the other hand are difficult and particularly unsuited to being caught wild and kept in captivity.


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## mustang100893 (Nov 16, 2009)

What is it with people on here me and one other person have gave slightly wrong info and instead on giving helpful advice people find a need to belittle us , i know that rhino vipers can and will bite with no warning but from what i have read they are generally less agressive than a gaboon which someone has suggested, oka maybe my sources aren't the best but is there any reason to get arsy


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey, i'm not arsey  , I just made a straightforward post.

If a rhino viper is kept correctly with the minimum of interaction it is basicly a wild snake when it is dealt with. They rarely defecate and do not eat very often so therefore do not come into contact with the keeper on a regular basis. So, when the time comes to clean out you will see the animal tense up like a coiled spring , the eyes dialate and it is ready to fire at the slightest thing that makes it jump. There is no warning as the snake will hiss like a tractor tyre deflating the whole time you are dealing with it, then suddenly comes a lightning strike accompanied by what I call the hissing spit. The hissing spit comes with the strike and is a combination of the hiss and like someone spitting with full force. When nasi' makes contact it always hits hard and will squeeze down as it bites with every ounce of its strength.
I've also found that nasicornis tends to become more unpredictable as it matures around the 3-4 year old mark. Juveniles are more tolerant but nervousness is what makes the adults so unpredictable.

All three large bitis are extremely dangerous animals and all have given me a shock at sometime or other, but nasicornis is definitely the most unpredictable and volatile. If a nasicornis is mellow and laid back then there's a high chance that the keeper is interacting with the snake to often, these snakes do not usually live to a ripe old age as a rule.
Hope this has helped,
All the best,
Al


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

mustang100893 said:


> What is it with people on here me and one other person have gave slightly wrong info and instead on giving helpful advice people find a need to belittle us , i know that rhino vipers can and will bite with no warning but from what i have read they are generally less agressive than a gaboon which someone has suggested, oka maybe my sources aren't the best but is there any reason to get arsy


I dont think Al was being arsy at all, all he did was post his own personal experience that in all fairness, was very informative and unfortunatly dissagreed with what you had posted. 
The problem is there is a lot of advice given, sometimes with all the best intentions which no doubt yours was, on this section by people who have not experienced what ever it is they are commenting on first hand.
Now i have no experience with leopard gecko's and you do so if i gave advice on here after reading something or from heresay and said something wrong you would be well within your right with your knowledge and experience to put me right, and i would not think you were belittleing me in doing so and i would take on bourd what you have said and think to myself "well this guy keeps and has lots of experience with this animal so perhaps he is right"


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

mustang100893 said:


> but from what i have read they are generally less agressive than a gaboon


I think this maybe the problem and alot of the problems on the forum aswell...too many people read untrue things and take one persons experince on a speices as fact!.


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

wildlifewarrior said:


> I think this maybe the problem and alot of the problems on the forum aswell...too many people read untrue things and take one persons experince on a speices as fact!.


This is very true.
I try to treat each snake as an individual as there's always the odd one that behaves out of character.
But like I said, I've had alot of bitis, and nasi is always ready to fire away due to it's timid /nervous nature.

Cheers,
Al


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Al Hyde said:


> This is very true.
> I try to treat each snake as an individual as there's always the odd one that behaves out of character.
> But like I said, I've had alot of bitis, and nasi is always ready to fire away due to it's timid /nervous nature.
> 
> ...


Excalty, i think alot of people just lately are using wikipedia,youtube and animal planet programs as there reptile bible almost.
One personas experince on a speices doesnt equal fact. 

I mean if we look at boigas for example alot of people will tell you mangroves arent worth the time and terriable feeders, but this is experince based on poor imports. I have 9 brillant wc feeders of all good wieghts and so on, i find them a joy to keep but again this is purely my experince. either cancel eachother out, there just different takes on a speices.

I think unless you have hands on experince with a speices then you cant comment on them realistically.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

mustang100893 said:


> There is no good starter but how about a Rhino viper, they are relatviely slow and rarely bite, also have beautiful colouration





mustang100893 said:


> What is it with people on here me and one other person have gave slightly wrong info and instead on giving helpful advice people find a need to belittle us , i know that rhino vipers can and will bite with no warning but from what i have read they are generally less agressive than a gaboon which someone has suggested, oka maybe my sources aren't the best but is there any reason to get arsy


Bad advice is bad advice..... This isn't breakfast cereals we are talking here..... If you're not sure of something, just don't post is the best.....



Al Hyde said:


> Hey, i'm not arsey  , I just made a straightforward post.
> 
> If a rhino viper is kept correctly with the minimum of interaction it is basicly a wild snake when it is dealt with. They rarely defecate and do not eat very often so therefore do not come into contact with the keeper on a regular basis. So, when the time comes to clean out you will see the animal tense up like a coiled spring , the eyes dialate and it is ready to fire at the slightest thing that makes it jump. There is no warning as the snake will hiss like a tractor tyre deflating the whole time you are dealing with it, then suddenly comes a lightning strike accompanied by what I call the hissing spit. The hissing spit comes with the strike and is a combination of the hiss and like someone spitting with full force. When nasi' makes contact it always hits hard and will squeeze down as it bites with every ounce of its strength.
> I've also found that nasicornis tends to become more unpredictable as it matures around the 3-4 year old mark. Juveniles are more tolerant but nervousness is what makes the adults so unpredictable.
> ...


Whether you are right or wrong in your post is not the issue...... 
Your post comes from experience, which wikipedia doesn't give you...... 
Post away and be as arsey as you want, as long as it's first hand facts......



wildlifewarrior said:


> I think this maybe the problem and alot of the problems on the forum aswell...too many people read untrue things and take one persons experince on a speices as fact!.





wildlifewarrior said:


> Excalty, i think alot of people just lately are using wikipedia,youtube and animal planet programs as there reptile bible almost.
> One personas experince on a speices doesnt equal fact.
> 
> I mean if we look at boigas for example alot of people will tell you mangroves arent worth the time and terriable feeders, but this is experince based on poor imports. I have 9 brillant wc feeders of all good wieghts and so on, i find them a joy to keep but again this is purely my experince. either cancel eachother out, there just different takes on a speices.
> ...


You forgot the Steve Erwin experts that have seen it done so they know it's right...... Bloody Television....


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## Lamprophis (Jun 12, 2008)

This has been said time and time again and is advice I agree wholeheartedly on... your first venomous species should all depend on what experience you have already... for instance if you intend to keep elapids in your venomous collection then get experience with them first. You may decide you don't have the nerve to work with them afterall, especially when you see your desired choice of D.W.A snake "flip out" for whatever reason. 

There are also fundamental skills that people should learn before they keep snakes (not just D.W.A) ie.. how to pin a snake should that be to assist/force feed, or check over the snake for whatever reason... these fundamentals are not to benefit the keeper but ultimately the health of the snake they are keeping, therefore without this skill set the snakes suffer which in my view is nothing but bad husbandary!

With all these factors taken into consideration you should find a balance where a happy, skilled and confident keeper = happy thriving snakes :2thumb:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Lamprophis said:


> There are also fundamental skills that people should learn before they keep snakes (not just D.W.A) ie.. *how to pin a snake* should that be to assist/force feed, or check over the snake for whatever reason...


Steve Erwin and Austin Stevens, make this look easy.......
If you ain't got a snake you should try this before claiming you are getting them.... IMO....


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> Steve Erwin and Austin Stevens, make this look easy.......
> If you ain't got a snake you should try this before claiming you are getting them.... IMO....


YouTube - I Was Bitten - Crazy Snakebite Captured on Super Slow Motion


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Realised how old this mother was!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

mustang100893 said:


> What is it with people on here me and one other person have gave slightly wrong info....


That would be the "what" that it is "with". "Slightly wrong info" when you're talking about animals that could kill you (and/or that your mismanagement could kill the animal) is probably much worse than "no info at all".

I do not have any practical *personal* experience with _Bitis _species snakes. Therefore I do not presume to advise on the keeping of such, or to suggest that they are a better/worse species for person-X to keep than Species Y. 

I have *negative* practical-personal experience with rattlesnakes (being bitten by one makes me LESS qualified to advise on keeping them, far as I'm concerned, until and unless I get practical and personal experience in keeping them and can manage one without being bitten in a captive scenario). Therefore again I should not advise on the care, keeping or recommendation of the species. 

If someone needed advice on keeping corn snakes, I can do that in good conscience as I have kept and bred the species successfully and have kept enough individuals to have seen the range of behaviour they can display.

Advice should always be based on experience, not just regurgitated from a source you cannot verify.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

As Viperkeeper (Al) says, somebody else's.

Harry


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