# marmoset ad that upset me...



## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Wasn't sure if I was allowed to post an advert that I have seen elsewhere but it can be deleted if not.

This ad really got to me because they are advertising marmosets for sale but just look at the appalling conditions they are in from the photo! How can someone put that picture up and not think that people would be disgusted by all the crap in the cage and the sad little face of the marmoset at the front? Which looks like it also has a baby clinging to it. Really sad after seeing this. Poor little mites. Feel like phoning him and telling him how cruel he is, what good would it do though 

marmosets for sale


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Poor things  He even claims that it's rust...which from the back panel you can clearly see that it's mostly feces :bash:

Is there no way to report the ad? It's really sad to see animals in those conditions...especially primates.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I know what a fool...rust :bash:
I did wonder if there was someone who could do something. I'd be surprised if his monkeys don't get ill from living amongst their own excrement like that!
You can click 'report this ad' which I did but I doubt anything will be done seeing as there's probably hundreds of the same thing on there.


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## Moony14 (Aug 20, 2011)

Don't time waste! He's too busy _not _looking after his animals properly! :bash:


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

Moony14 said:


> Don't time waste! He's too busy _not _looking after his animals properly! :bash:


There was some guy in the paper the other day who had his two marmosets taken away from him but they didn't look anywhere near in as bad condition as these ones do. The adverts should be monitored better, it's so cruel.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Some people genuinely don't realise how cruel it is to keep primates caged like this - crazy, but true! However, there's never an excuse for poor hygiene. I would pass the ad to RSPCA and perhaps they can investigate..? I'd be happy to do so if you can't/don't want to


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## Slumdog (Nov 29, 2012)

Poor little thing, I've reported it for all the good it'll do


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## stuart0202 (Mar 12, 2012)

It looks to me like a scam advert, the phone number he has put on is premium rate, the grammar used and the fact that it is all in capitals, normally indacates a scam. This seems to be normal pratice on UK classifieds.


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

Disillusioned said:


> Wasn't sure if I was allowed to post an advert that I have seen elsewhere but it can be deleted if not.
> 
> This ad really got to me because they are advertising marmosets for sale but just look at the appalling conditions they are in from the photo! How can someone put that picture up and not think that people would be disgusted by all the crap in the cage and the sad little face of the marmoset at the front? Which looks like it also has a baby clinging to it. Really sad after seeing this. Poor little mites. *Feel like phoning him and telling him how cruel he is, what good would it do though*


then when you've finished calling him are you gonna phone the other 96% of owners who have similar housing for their primates? 

it's a lost cause, the majority of people won't/don't understand their animals needs, behaviour or even how they function in an environment when it comes to pet husbandry.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

stuart0202 said:


> It looks to me like a scam advert, the phone number he has put on is premium rate, the grammar used and the fact that it is all in capitals, normally indacates a scam. This seems to be normal pratice on UK classifieds.


It looks suspicious, but I've googled all sorts of things including "marmoset rescue", "marmoset cage", "marmosets as pets", "common marmoset as pets", "tame marmoset", "tame common marmoset", etc etc in both google image and web search and didn't find the picture. What I've seen a lot of scammers do is take the first image after using a google image search for "tame (name of animal)".


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

s6t6nic6l said:


> then when you've finished calling him are you gonna phone the other 96% of owners who have similar housing for their primates?
> 
> it's a lost cause, the majority of people won't/don't understand their animals needs, behaviour or even how they function in an environment when it comes to pet husbandry.


Adds like that do need stamped out.
Conditions like that stamped out.
Kept in cages stamped out.
Stop the ones at source.
The sellers.

It could be the case there in it temp.
Till sold.
But doupt it.
But think the 96% may be a bit high...lol


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

s6t6nic6l said:


> then when you've finished calling him are you gonna phone the other 96% of owners who have similar housing for their primates?
> 
> it's a lost cause, the majority of people won't/don't understand their animals needs, behaviour or even how they function in an environment when it comes to pet husbandry.


Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, its never a lost cause! Responsible keepers and peolle should always report these kind of ads to the site owners and the authorities. Whilst rspca may appear to be the right route, I would suggest contacting the local police department who should investigate on animal cruelty allegations. It will be up to the police to call in the rspca if and when necessary. I just do t feel handing over to the rspca will do them any good.

At the moment, there are no specific guidelines for these kind of ads, so it is up to peoe like yourselves to self regulate. Report dodgy ads, advise people to seek the correct information, and generally keep on top. It may not stop the owner keeping badly, but it may make potential buyers think twice before jumping in to a sale.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

I decided to be a time waster and ask some questions. Sorry, Mr "THE CAGE IS JUST RUSTY!", but if you're keeping animals in conditions like that, I don't care how much time you have on your hands.
This person knows the right answers to the questions I asked. Either this ad is legitimate, or the person who made it knows how to make it look that way. If they didn't provide a picture I'd actually be quite impressed with them as what they said in their reply seemed to indicate that the marmosets were being well taken care of.

Not sure whether that's good news or not...


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

I think it is definitely worth reporting, I just don't know who to contact?
As long as there are people willing to buy from people like this, then there will always be people willing to sell. That doesn't mean you should just turn a blind eye because it's only one person. especially when you could potentially be changing the lives of dozens of animals. 


He is a salesman, they always know the right things to say :lol2:
Them marmosets must have been kept in that cage a good while to accumulate that amount of crap at the bottom of it! Made me laugh that you rang him though, I do sneaky things like that lol. Did he persuade you to buy a marmoset?


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

elmthesofties said:


> I decided to be a time waster and ask some questions. Sorry, Mr "THE CAGE IS JUST RUSTY!", but if you're keeping animals in conditions like that, I don't care how much time you have on your hands.
> This person knows the right answers to the questions I asked. Either this ad is legitimate, or the person who made it knows how to make it look that way. If they didn't provide a picture I'd actually be quite impressed with them as what they said in their reply seemed to indicate that the marmosets were being well taken care of.
> 
> Not sure whether that's good news or not...


That's weird, I rang the number and it just rang once then went beeeep lol. I messaged feigning interest and haven't had a reply. Was hoping to 'arrange a visit' then hand the address over to the authorities.. I do agree with Tarron though, the RSPCA have no legal authority to enter premises, etc so it would be a police matter.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

5plusmany said:


> That's weird, I rang the number and it just rang once then went beeeep lol. I messaged feigning interest and haven't had a reply. Was hoping to 'arrange a visit' then hand the address over to the authorities.. I do agree with Tarron though, the RSPCA have no legal authority to enter premises, etc so it would be a police matter.


I thought about doing this. I wonder if the police would even be interested though?


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Disillusioned said:


> I thought about doing this. I wonder if the police would even be interested though?


I would have thought that they would have to investigate at the very least. Contravention of the animal welfare act is breaking the law, and its at least worth a go, the worst they can say is take it to the rspca (I know what id say in that situation but ill leave it to your imagination)


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

If you report anything to RSPCA about cruelty.
They must enquire.
They report to police and take them with them.
But youd need to see with your own eyes.
Not an advert.
Police have nought to do with animals.
But i dont rate RSPCA.
They send rescued marmies to a place that sells babies with cages.
Im afraid SSPCA is more organized.
Not just as im scottish.
Its just the way it is.
But this needs stopped.
By whatever way poss.

Arrange a meet and open both barrels would please me.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I'd definitely say report them if there's a way. The RSPCA has it's critics but in most situations it is the lesser of 2 evils. The only way to stop people like this is for them to realise that rather than make money from the animals with minimum input, they will simply have the animals removed from them.

These animals deserve so much more than the life they have, and while it might not change the world...at least not over night, for the individual animals in question it makes the world of difference.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Drayvan said:


> I'd definitely say report them if there's a way. The RSPCA has it's critics but in most situations it is the lesser of 2 evils. The only way to stop people like this is for them to realise that rather than make money from the animals with minimum input, they will simply have the animals removed from them.
> 
> These animals deserve so much more than the life they have, and while it might not change the world...at least not over night, for the individual animals in question it makes the world of difference.


Very true. I do t think dodgy traders will ever vanish. They come in all walks of life, be it exotic pets, domestic pets, cars, banks or window cleaners. Some people are just out to screw the world. But if the honest decent folk like ourselves step in where we can, then it helps.


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## jambos reptiles (Dec 28, 2012)

People need to STOP this marmosets need to be DWA REGISTERED due to not how dangerous they are but to stop people like that I say marmosets need a big homemade cage or a big parrot cage with ropes and plants in groups of marmosets not to be sold singular and an outdoor cage I'm all for a permit to come into place to own them STOP THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER SHIP OF PRIMATES IN THE UK!!!


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

jambos reptiles said:


> People need to STOP this marmosets need to be DWA REGISTERED due to not how dangerous they are but to stop people like that I say marmosets need a big homemade cage or a big parrot cage with ropes and plants in groups of marmosets not to be sold singular and an outdoor cage I'm all for a permit to come into place to own them STOP THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER SHIP OF PRIMATES IN THE UK!!!


Theres probably as manny unregistered DWA animals as there is irisponsible sellers.
It needs improved as well.
No animal should be bread with the need to sell on internet.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

jambos reptiles said:


> People need to STOP this marmosets need to be DWA REGISTERED due to not how dangerous they are but to stop people like that I say marmosets need a big homemade cage or a big parrot cage with ropes and plants in groups of marmosets not to be sold singular and an outdoor cage I'm all for a permit to come into place to own them STOP THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER SHIP OF PRIMATES IN THE UK!!!


I do t believe further licensing will work in this case. Government and local authorites have already shown (dwa, dda) they are incapable of following through properly. They dont have the knowledge or funds to properly police licencing in the animals sector. 
The best option, In my personal opinion, is for responsible keepers to maintain self regulation of the hobby/industry. If you see an advert that doesnt sit right, ask questions, gather facts and if necessary, report them.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Tarron said:


> I do t believe further licensing will work in this case. Government and local authorites have already shown (dwa, dda) they are incapable of following through properly. They dont have the knowledge or funds to properly police licencing in the animals sector.
> The best option, In my personal opinion, is for responsible keepers to maintain self regulation of the hobby/industry. If you see an advert that doesnt sit right, ask questions, gather facts and if necessary, report them.


Good point Tarron.
It does happen..self regs.
But others call it a secret circle.
Its not.
We just stick together.
Still say monitoring of sales would help.
Its whst we all think.
All keeprrs we know anyway.
Its these bad ones that are flagged up all times.
So getting rids the anseer.
That sort wont be educated....
But good to hear your opinion.
Especially from a non keeper.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Tarron said:


> I do t believe further licensing will work in this case. Government and local authorites have already shown (dwa, dda) they are incapable of following through properly. They dont have the knowledge or funds to properly police licencing in the animals sector.
> The best option, In my personal opinion, is for responsible keepers to maintain self regulation of the hobby/industry. If you see an advert that doesnt sit right, ask questions, gather facts and if necessary, report them.


Totally agree, would add that education of the wider public is important too. More eyes = more of these ads spotted, reported and removed... though I notice nothing has been done about this particular ad despite several of us reporting it :banghead:


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Yip.
Same as sunday roast add on this forum.
Education should start at home.
Practice what we preach.


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## krstfoster (Oct 23, 2012)

Now that's some very slimy rust.....


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

5plusmany said:


> Totally agree, would add that education of the wider public is important too. More eyes = more of these ads spotted, reported and removed... though I notice nothing has been done about this particular ad despite several of us reporting it :banghead:


I think the problem with reporting the add, is (at least when I did it) there is no option to explain why you are reporting it. As you say, public education is important, and I doubt the sites admin can see the problem we are reporting


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

And ss said previous.
They could come up with an excuse.
Old cage
Temp housing till away.
No excuse
But it does hapn.
The whole situations bad.
Not just primates.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Good point Tarron.
> It does happen..self regs.
> But others call it a secret circle.
> Its not.
> ...


Thank you peter, this is something im getting increasingly interested in, and will be lokki g at all possible avenues to do what we can. As you say, im not a keeper, and realise that o some poi ts we may not agree, but the over ruling issue should be aimed towards the welfare of whichever species is concerned. If there is anything that you or other responsible keepers would like help with, specifically from me but im sure everyone at bema would love to help, please ask. Likewise, I would appreciate your wealth of experience should we have a breakthrough at bema, though I still appreciate your opinion on the group.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

If you google the phone number, you get a load of other ads for marmosets. Same bloke 'Marcus' but in Ireland and all are 'living outside', so they might not be kept in the cage in the picture.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 24, 2012)

Meko said:


> If you google the phone number, you get a load of other ads for marmosets. Same bloke 'Marcus' but in Ireland and all are 'living outside', so they might not be kept in the cage in the picture.


He said he moved house so they're in a semi heated room now. (when I contacted him)


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

elmthesofties said:


> He said he moved house so they're in a semi heated room now. (when I contacted him)


Id move animals prior to moving hiuse if i had no room.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Right I have spoken to him. He says he is moving to Africa at end of Jan so is selling all his monkeys. Says he has taken down 'all the aviaries'. I asked if 20 weeks was too young for the babies to leave parents, he said 'no not at all, thy can leave at 12 weeks'. Babies are apparently still with parents now.

I have the address. Now what?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Now the problem starts.
Which crime is he comitting.?
Proving it.?
Maybe liggit.
Strange though.
Id house mine prior.
But thats me.
Maybe rush move.
Conditions in add not good.
Anything wrong with the animal.?


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

5plusmany said:


> Right I have spoken to him. He says he is moving to Africa at end of Jan so is selling all his monkeys. Says he has taken down 'all the aviaries'. I asked if 20 weeks was too young for the babies to leave parents, he said 'no not at all, thy can leave at 12 weeks'. Babies are apparently still with parents now.
> 
> I have the address. Now what?


If it local I'd go have a look out of curiosity if not ask for a local volunteer ?


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Jay, it's in Ireland so bit tricky.

Peter, I'd say selling babies too young was bad enough, though sadly I don't think the law would agree. The bloke's been doing it for years (he said) he has two sets of twin females every year apparently. So this one person alone has easily put in excess of 20 little ones in the hands of god knows who. But this in itself is not illegal.
The issue of the cage is difficult - he may claim it's only temporary. Though as I think someone else pointed out, I can't see that amount of mess accumilating so quickly. And in any case why move them out of their 'aviaries' if he's selling them anyway?
And what authorities take responsibility (if any?!) in Ireland? I don't have a clue..


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

5plusmany said:


> Jay, it's in Ireland so bit tricky.
> 
> Peter, I'd say selling babies too young was bad enough, though sadly I don't think the law would agree. The bloke's been doing it for years (he said) he has two sets of twin females every year apparently. So this one person alone has easily put in excess of 20 little ones in the hands of god knows who. But this in itself is not illegal.
> The issue of the cage is difficult - he may claim it's only temporary. *Though as I think someone else pointed out, I can't see that amount of mess accumilating so quickly.* And in any case why move them out of their 'aviaries' if he's selling them anyway?
> And what authorities take responsibility (if any?!) in Ireland? I don't have a clue..


In Ireland I believe they have an SPCA like Scotland, whether they have more legal powers than the RSPCA like the one in Scotland I don't know though. 

Found a list of SPCA contact details depending where abouts he is » Irish Animal Welfare Organisations » Pets.ie

Whilst rescue organisations tend not to be up on the care of exotics if they do find any reason to confiscate the animals, the fact that those reporting are members of BEMA might be of some benefit?

For the bit in bold, if they have only been in that cage for a short amount of time, the build up of mess clearly shows it isn't an adequate size for that many, temporary measure or not.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Ah right never noticed the ad location 





5plusmany said:


> Jay, it's in Ireland so bit tricky.
> 
> Peter, I'd say selling babies too young was bad enough, though sadly I don't think the law would agree. The bloke's been doing it for years (he said) he has two sets of twin females every year apparently. So this one person alone has easily put in excess of 20 little ones in the hands of god knows who. But this in itself is not illegal.
> The issue of the cage is difficult - he may claim it's only temporary. Though as I think someone else pointed out, I can't see that amount of mess accumilating so quickly. And in any case why move them out of their 'aviaries' if he's selling them anyway?
> And what authorities take responsibility (if any?!) in Ireland? I don't have a clue..


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## slizard (Sep 3, 2012)

that cage is the most disgusting state he should be ashamed! :censor::censor::censor:


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

If you check back previous posts.
Id stated that ireland was the worse for culprits of babies sold.
Theres more mixed species .hybrids and kept as pets.
Thrre was even an argument(debate) about pulling to hand rear for better pets.
Legaly they will have themselves covered.
As quidelines by defra have not in theory been broken.
And there guides not law.
So there housed incorrectly in our ethical opinion.
Not law.
Didnt look to me by state of cage to be temp.
But hes giving the correct answers.
And even authorities would be satisfied.
Changing these types is difficult.
Ive had many threats from breaders of this type just because i wont sell.
I still say monitoring of sales.
If they get responses like bema.
It may through time make them stop and think.
But more important.
Newbies may see the discussions and make them see that they can be and should be kept as .monkeys and not caged pets.
But as stated by somenoe getting admin to notice.
Ive had that here.
Add for roast lover still on RFUK.
and admin dont answer your queeries about it.
So we debate about how bad it is.
And keep as bad an advert on the for sale section of the very place were talking about making a diffrrence.
Double standsrds.
Ive broached this before.
But came across sellers rights.
The marmies should count.
Surelly.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm going to pass on the information to the relevant people today. I suspect Peter is right and not much can be done but even if they can send someone round to have a quick look that would be something.
Failing that perhaps I can politely put something in writing.


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## Disillusioned (Jan 3, 2012)

5plusmany said:


> I'm going to pass on the information to the relevant people today. I suspect Peter is right and not much can be done but even if they can send someone round to have a quick look that would be something.
> Failing that perhaps I can politely put something in writing.


It's a good idea if someone could atleast check on them. Poor things. When I asked about them I got him to send me a couple more pics...not much better than the first. Shoddy dirty cage. He told me he only put them in the cage to take the pictures a couple months ago, highly doubt it though seeing as there is food in there and really soiled newspaper.


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

Prime example of why these beautiful animals should not be caged and kept as "pets", too many plonkers buy them and breed them as a novelty. So sad.
:bash:


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