# Rootbeers?



## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

Say, I have a Female Rootbeer (CornxRat) and a Anerythistic Corn Snake.
I am in right, ins aying they will breed?

I was told otherwise? And what babies would be produced?

Thanks!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Copper corn(UK) or Rootbeer corn(USA) is a Hybrid between a Red rat snake and Great plains rat snake.The offspring will always be copper corns wheather bred to a Red rat snake or a Great plains rat snake.

Copper corn X Anery red rat snake = .

100%Copper corn HET Anery.


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

gazz said:


> Copper corn(UK) or Rootbeer corn(USA) is a Hybrid between a Red rat snake and Great plains rat snake.The offspring will always be copper corns wheather bred to a Red rat snake or a Great plains rat snake.
> 
> Copper corn X Anery red rat snake = .
> 
> 100%Copper corn HET Anery.


Unless the copper corn is already het for some thing. Many coppers are het for amel and when paired with an amel corn willl produce creamsicals.

Natrix


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Natrix said:


> Unless the copper corn is already het for some thing. Many coppers are het for amel and when paired with an amel corn willl produce creamsicals.
> 
> Natrix


But a cramisicle is still just a Amel copper.Creamsicle is just the trait name.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

So the Copper/Rootbeer will breed with the Anery?
I was tol;d there's a chance they won't due to being hybrid.

Thanks for the help guys!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Josh-sama said:


> So the Copper/Rootbeer will breed with the Anery?
> I was tol;d there's a chance they won't due to being hybrid.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys!


Copper corn would breed with your Anery red rat snake in a heart beat.Copper corn has Red rat snake blood.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

I mean, Anerthystic Corn Snake + Rootbeer/Copper corn.
Not Rat.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

The corn snake used to be called the red rat snake.
They are connomly just reffered to as corns now.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

SnakeBreeder said:


> The corn snake used to be called the red rat snake.
> They are connomly just reffered to as corns now.


Oh! My bad. :lol2:

Thanks a lot guys!


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

gazz said:


> But a cramisicle is still just a Amel copper.Creamsicle is just the trait name.


No not quiet
A creamsicle is the trade name for an amelanistic, corn x great plains rat snake hybrid 
And 
A Copper (UK) or rootbeer (USA) is the trade name for a normal colour, corn x great plains rat snake hybrid.

Rootbeer and Creamsicle are both trade names for the different colour morphs of the corn x great plains rat snake hybrid. 
Other trade names include snowcreme, icesicle and snowsicle (snows), cinnamon (hypo), fudgesicle, (caramel), anerycreme (anery). 

Natrix


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Josh-sama said:


> So the Copper/Rootbeer will breed with the Anery?
> I was tol;d there's a chance they won't due to being hybrid.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys!


There is always a chance that a hybrid anything could be infertile or only semi fertile. I have three F1 Coppers here. The male is totally infertile having failed to fill four clutches of eggs over the last three years. His two sisters are fertile but around half of any eggs they lay are infertile. 
I am now rearing on five of their babies (4 creamsicles and one more copper) but won't know how fertile they are for another year or so. 
At the other extreme I have a male Fox x Corn who fertilised 16 out of 16 eggs :no1: which have produced some very nice looking babies.

Natrix


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

Natrix said:


> There is always a chance that a hybrid anything could be infertile or only semi fertile. I have three F1 Coppers here. The male is totally infertile having failed to fill four clutches of eggs over the last three years. His two sisters are fertile but around half of any eggs they lay are infertile.
> I am now rearing on five of their babies (4 creamsicles and one more copper) but won't know how fertile they are for another year or so.
> At the other extreme I have a male Fox x Corn who fertilised 16 out of 16 eggs :no1: which have produced some very nice looking babies.
> 
> Natrix


So I'd be better off breeding corn to corn, than corn to corn/rat


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

SnakeBreeder said:


> The corn snake used to be called the red rat snake.
> They are connomly just reffered to as corns now.


I've gone back to the old of Red rat snake for a P.G.Guttata that's beleaved to be pure of blood.

With Red rat snakes hybrids being called this corn and that corn and thingy corn.I'm giving the word corn to the red rat snake hybrids.

So the name Red rat snake says to knowledge they are pure bloods.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Natrix said:


> No not quiet
> A creamsicle is the trade name for an amelanistic, corn x great plains rat snake hybrid
> And
> A Copper (UK) or rootbeer (USA) is the trade name for a normal colour, corn x great plains rat snake hybrid.
> ...


To me copper corn is the apex of the Red rat snake X Great plains rat snake the main name.Me personally wouldn't tag them as the trade names you wrote above.One coz i don't do secondry trade names/combo morphs.And i would keep the word Copper to state what hybrids they are so.Copper corn,Amel copper corn,Anery copper corn,Amel anery copper corn,Hypo copper corn,Amel hypo copper corn,Caramal copper corn,Amel caramel copper corn'etc'etc.


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## Josh-sama (Sep 26, 2008)

But breeding a corn to a corn/rat hybrid, does this affect fertility rates?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Josh-sama said:


> But breeding a corn to a corn/rat hybrid, does this affect fertility rates?


Male Copper corns will maybe have fertility issues if put to a Female Red red snake.

But a male Red rat snake to a female Copper corn it's very doutbful you will have issues with fertility.

Male hybrids most but not all of the time may have fertility issues so can't breed out.But female hybrids can take the sperm of a pure blood of one of the species used to create it and have offspring.

Examples.

(M)Horse X (FM)Donkey = 50/50Mule.

(M)Donkey X (FM)Horse = 50/50Mule.

(M)50/50Mule X (FM)50/50Mule = 0.

(M)75/25Mule X (FM)50/50Mule = May result in Mule.

(M)Mule50/50 X (FM)Horse = 0.

(M)Mule75/25 X (FM)Horse = May result in Mule.

(M)Horse X (FM)50/50Mule = 75/25Mule.However the male Mules from a this breeding may well be fertile to female Horse/Donkey/Mule.


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Josh-sama said:


> But breeding a corn to a corn/rat hybrid, does this affect fertility rates?


It may do occasionally but not always. It's a chance you take when producing hybrids.

Natrix


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

gazz said:


> To me copper corn is the apex of the Red rat snake X Great plains rat snake the main name.Me personally wouldn't tag them as the trade names you wrote above.One coz i don't do secondry trade names/combo morphs.And i would keep the word Copper to state what hybrids they are so.Copper corn,Amel copper corn,Anery copper corn,Amel anery copper corn,Hypo copper corn,Amel hypo copper corn,Caramal copper corn,Amel caramel copper corn'etc'etc.


Sorry but I really think you need to do some reading up on this subject.
Copper corns are really a by product in the production of creamsicles.
You put an Amel corn to a Great plains rat and produce wild colour hybrids that we refer to as copper corns (this is purely a trade name).
The next stage of the process is to either pair the copper corns back to each other or pair a copper corn to another Amel Corn. The result of this cross should be a mix of copper corns and creamsicles.
For the other morphs mentioned, you would start with a corn of the appropriate morph at the first stage of the process. And pair the resulting babies back to another corn of the same morph or to each other. These other names are not secondary trade names/combo morphs, they are deliberate different crossings right from the word go. 

Natrix


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

gazz said:


> I've gone back to the old of Red rat snake for a P.G.Guttata that's beleaved to be pure of blood.
> 
> With Red rat snakes hybrids being called this corn and that corn and thingy corn.I'm giving the word corn to the red rat snake hybrids.
> 
> So the name Red rat snake says to knowledge they are pure bloods.


Not meaning to be funny but does this reply come in simple English !
What is it you are saying here?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

gazz said:


> (M)Horse X (FM)Donkey = 50/50Mule.
> (M)Donkey X (FM)Horse = 50/50Mule.
> (M)50/50Mule X (FM)50/50Mule = 0.
> (M)75/25Mule X (FM)50/50Mule = May result in Mule.
> ...


Gaz, I hate to say it, but this really isn't how it works.

Mules are *almost always* infertile and the only *possibly fertile* ones are female mollies who have been bred to either a horse or donkey. 

Male horse to female donkey = Hinny (not mule!)
Male donkey to female horse = Mule
Molly-mule to Horse = 1:1000 chance of very horselike mule foal.
John-mule to Horse = No babies.
Molly-mule to Donkey = 1:1000 chance of donkeylike mule foal.
John-mule to Donkey = No babies.

Now, it's entirely possible that a 50/50 Great Plains X Corn could well have fertility issues - but the more corn that's in the mix, I'd expect more fertility WITH CORNS.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Not meaning to be funny but does this reply come in simple English !
> What is it you are saying here?


I a nut shell.

I view it as.

Red rat snake *PURE* P.G.Guttata.

Corn snake *HYBRID*says Red rat snake hybrid. 

For example.Jungle corn,Sinacorn,Gopher corn,Turbo corn,Tri color jungle corn,Spendida jungle corn,Pueblcorn,Pearl corn,Axminster corn.Need i go on. 

IMO Red rat snake HYBRIDS.Can have the word CORN.I'm happy saying Red rat snake for a P.G.Guttata.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Gaz, I hate to say it, but this really isn't how it works.
> 
> Mules are *almost always* infertile and the only *possibly fertile* ones are female mollies who have been bred to either a horse or donkey.
> 
> ...


To me there all mules wheather it's donkey to horse or horse to donkey the males of both are infertile.The only differance is size usually.As female horse can give birth to bigger mule that a female donkey can.So donkey mules tend to be smaller other than the the genetic is the same and IMO doesn't warrnt a nother name.Red rat snake X Great plains rat snake is a Copper corn ana a Great plains rat snake X Red rat snake is a Copper corn.A burm X Retic is a bateater and a Retic X Burm is a Bateater.I don't see the need for diffant names for the same hybrid that just been given birth to by differant females.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

gazz said:


> To me there all mules wheather it's donkey to horse or horse to donkey the males of both are infertile.The only differance is size usually.As female horse can give birth to bigger mule that a female donkey can.....I don't see the need for diffant names for the same hybrid that just been given birth to by differant females.


Actually, the reason it's named that way around is because a mule and a hinny AREN'T the same thing... not least because of the difference in chromosome counts between horses and donkeys. The cross that produces mules (Jack donkey to Mare horse) is much easier to do because horses have more chromosomes than donkeys; in mammals it's easier to make a hybrid if this is the case.

A female hinny bred to a jack donkey (its maternal species) will actually produce a 75/25 cross - unlike a mule, which is more likely to produce a pure horse foal when bred to a stallion.

And as I said, it'd be quite interesting to see if sterility or reduced fertility is common in first-generation ratsnake crosses - and whether that is more likely to be males or females that have the problems.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> unlike a mule, which is more likely to produce a pure horse foal when bred to a stallion.


How can a horse/donkey-Hybrid(Mule)female give birth to a horse foal if bred to a horse male ?.Surely once a hybrid it and all following offspring are hybrids always.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

gazz said:


> How can a horse/donkey-Hybrid(Mule)female give birth to a horse foal if bred to a horse male ?.Surely once a hybrid it and all following offspring are hybrids always.


Because of the way the chromosomes work (donkeys have two fewer than horses) - the mule molly only passes on the *horse* half of the chromosomes. Conversely, hinnies can pass on some of each.

Presumably that means if you breed a mollymule to a jack, you'll get more mules - 50/50 hybrids that are half horse from mum and half donkey from dad.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Because of the way the chromosomes work (donkeys have two fewer than horses) - the mule molly only passes on the *horse* half of the chromosomes. Conversely, hinnies can pass on some of each.
> 
> Presumably that means if you breed a mollymule to a jack, you'll get more mules - 50/50 hybrids that are half horse from mum and half donkey from dad.


It's abit dangerous ground ?:whistling2:.If people lernt the chromosome count of snake species.Couldn't this logic be use to pass a pure species from a hybrid female parent.Say for example *IF*a Retic python had a less chromosome count than a Burm python.If you was to breed a Male Burm python to a female Retic python = Bateater python.But then if you bred the female Bateater python offspring to a pure Burm python = Burm python.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

gazz said:


> It's abit dangerous ground ?:whistling2:.If people lernt the chromosome count of snake species.Couldn't this logic be use to pass a pure species from a hybrid female parent.Say for example *IF*a Retic python had a less chromosome count than a Burm python.If you was to breed a Male Burm python to a female Retic python = Bateater python.But then if you bred the female Bateater python offspring to a pure Burm python = Burm python.


Only if that's how it actually WORKED with snakes... if it didn't work that way, then there would be no worries. From what I've seen thus far, it doesn't appear to work that way with the second-generation python hybrids... you still get hybrid-looking offspring.

For that matter, the weird chromosome thing with mules/horses doesn't work in all mammals, even; breeding a ServalXDomestic Cat (AKA "Savannah") to a domestic cat does not produce pure domestic cats no matter which parent was what - the hybrids are still very clearly hybrids.


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