# Why do some get so full of seethe if someone cross species?



## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Don't breed anything, no short term plans to, but have read a bit of chat in the past, in which some people *SHAKE WITH RAGE*, lest someone else suggest, propose, or even speak about mating two different T species.

Why the seethe and near stroke? Okay, if they were doing it large scale, then releasing the hybrids back into the wilds, yes, I could get how that may upset the eco system and some people that wear cords, but if they simply breed two of their own spiders, and keep the offspring, or give to who wants them, then why so serious? 

Assuming the two sp could be bred of course, and assuming that the spiderlings were healthy enough, I am not sure I am seeing this as the end of the World. Again, if they were selling something that was a hybrid, and passing it off as something else, that might be a different story, but if not, what is the actual harm?

And even if you do not really favour it, don't ya think people get such things a bit out of perspective, at times.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Mr Mister said:


> if they were selling something that was a hybrid, and passing it off as something else, that might be a different story.


Maybe coz sooner or later the above WILL happen. A prime example of this is with the corn snake. I doubt there are any pure corn snakes in the hobby on less they are WC. Coz when you get to having a Corn snake that it around say 75% pure. Weather it has other rat snake blood and even King snake blood it's very hard to tell a pure from a hybrid and they get lost in the hobby polluting the pure as they go.

Here is a WC Corn from Palm Beach County, FL.









Here is a Corn snake X Gopher snake hybrid.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

In my opinion crossing/hybridisation of species is not needed, why spoil a perfectly beautiful species by genetically crossing it with another species, the main reason for this being is because some people are just curious about what the off spring would look like. Yes, there may be species that, in the wild, that may cross breed but we're not talking about animals in the wild, we're talking about captive bred animals here.

Now I'm not too sure how many, if any spider/insect hybrids there are out there but reptile wise, there's far too many hybrids being bred and they are being sold on as genetically pure animals in some cases and not being clearly labelled as hybrids thus resulting in people buying what they think is a geneticaly pure animal.


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## pcharlton (Mar 23, 2012)

Ts dont have the same sex organs whats the point of crosing when there loads to buy


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

AilsaM said:


> In my opinion crossing/hybridisation of species is not needed, why spoil a perfectly beautiful species by genetically crossing it with another species, the main reason for this being is because some people are just curious about what the off spring would look like. Yes, there may be species that, in the wild, that may cross breed but we're not talking about animals in the wild, we're talking about captive bred animals here.
> 
> Now I'm not too sure how many, if any spider/insect hybrids there are out there but reptile wise, there's far too many hybrids being bred and they are being sold on as genetically pure animals in some cases and not being clearly labelled as hybrids thus resulting in people buying what they think is a geneticaly pure animal.


Probably one of the only posts of your ailsa that I haven't totally disagreed with.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

Biggys said:


> Probably one of the only posts of your ailsa that I haven't totally disagreed with.


And you felt the need to quote me, why? I'm not an expert but I still have an opinion.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

gazz said:


> Maybe coz sooner or later the above WILL happen. A prime example of this is with the corn snake. I doubt there are any pure corn snakes in the hobby on less they are WC. Coz when you get to having a Corn snake that it around say 75% pure. Weather it has other rat snake blood and even King snake blood it's very hard to tell a pure from a hybrid and they get lost in the hobby polluting the pure as they go.
> 
> Here is a WC Corn from Palm Beach County, FL.
> image
> ...


It's still a nice snake though, no, and as long as someone likes it, and it is healthy, etc, is it all so bad?


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## pcharlton (Mar 23, 2012)

........................................................


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

pcharlton said:


> Ts dont have the same sex organs whats the point of crosing when there loads to buy


I don't know, since I have never done it.

But if someone did it, there must have been a point - to them.

Otherwise they would not have done it?


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## SamWest (Sep 11, 2012)

Mr Mister said:


> It's still a nice snake though, no, and as long as someone likes it, and it is healthy, etc, is it all so bad?


Are you joking ? 
hybrids ruin captive stock because they end up missold and trickle through the trade
look at Brachypelma vagans... there's not many pure ones in the hobby and it's taken how long to start working on it ?

I think if you're okay with hybrids, you're okay with the destruction of something we love


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

Removed.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

SamWest said:


> Are you joking ?
> hybrids ruin captive stock because they end up missold and trickle through the trade
> look at Brachypelma vagans... there's not many pure ones in the hobby and it's taken how long to start working on it ?
> 
> I think if you're okay with hybrids, you're okay with the destruction of something we love


Bit dramatic, no?

All I said was if one guy did it with two spiders, and they were both his, is it really worth such a massive fit?

I have yet to see that it would be, in that context.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Don't breed anything, no short term plans to, but have read a bit of chat in the past, in which some people *SHAKE WITH RAGE*, lest someone else suggest, propose, or even speak about mating two different T species.
> 
> Why the seethe and near stroke? Okay, if they were doing it large scale, then releasing the hybrids back into the wilds, yes, I could get how that may upset the eco system and some people that wear cords, but if they simply breed two of their own spiders, and keep the offspring, or give to who wants them, then why so serious?
> 
> ...


You sir are a man with seemingly endless questions, let me turn you latest one around on you, why do you think,?...


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## SamWest (Sep 11, 2012)

Mr Mister said:


> Bit dramatic, no?
> 
> All I said was if one guy did it with two spiders, and they were both his, is it really worth such a massive fit?
> 
> I have yet to see that it would be, in that context.


No, of course it isn't a "bit dramatic"
Why should we all be punished with mongrel stock because of stupid people who think it's a good idea?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> You sir are a man with seemingly endless questions, let me turn you latest one around on you, why do you think,?...


 
Why? Maybe because some get things out of perspective. There are people in my country today who are getting poorer, sicker, there are lots of things that are_ worth_ mass emotional energy, but someone that has bought and paid for two spiders, and manages to cross breed them..? No. That does not merit much in the way of energy, at all really, does it..?

*shrugs*


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

SamWest said:


> No, of course it isn't a "bit dramatic"
> Why should we all be punished with mongrel stock because of stupid people who think it's a good idea?


 
Of course it is dramatic rhetoric.

I asked a question, based on one guy and two spiders, and you have turned it into ....well...precisely the sort of over reaction I was speaking about.:whistling2:

People will do things anyway, however worked up you get about it. It won't make it stop. To get worked up over a _discussion_ over it though, that is a total waste of time. I find if I get too worked up merely discussing something, maybe I am best not to...


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Mr Mister said:


> It's still a nice snake though, no, and as long as someone likes it, and it is healthy, etc, is it all so bad?


As a pet no it's fine. But the problem is there no way of stopping the hybrids getting into pure stock, As not every one is honest about what they sell or some don't even know what they have. They just brought it coz it was nice.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Mr Mister said:


> All I said was if one guy did it with two spiders, and they were both his,


Yes! the parent spiders are his, But the offspring become someone else's, 
And you have no control what's done with them. And what there bred into.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

gazz said:


> *As a pet no it's fine*. But the problem is there no way of stopping the hybrids getting into pure stock, As not every one is honest about what they sell or some don't even know what they have. They just brought it coz it was nice.


Thanks man: victory:, because that was made clear in the OP really. I guess what I was really asking is, would there be any health issues with the offspring, in truth, or would they likely be okay? Did not say I wanted to do it, was going to do it, that others should do it, simply ask a question, and just because I am not as angry as someone else, that makes me 'wrong'..lol.

You're right though, there is no way of stopping hybrids. It is also true that not everyone is honest, but I don't see that this is a problem exclusive to invert traders, rather _any_ trade, I suppose. 

And if they did buy it because it was nice, and they liked it, then is that really such a bad end?

I could understand it more if people were culling those they did not want, or if they culled one that was not 100% 'pure', or if someone, for some reason, wanted to shift masses of T's from one area of the World, to another, then let them go. But in is all degrees, eh?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

gazz said:


> Yes! the parent spiders are his, But the offspring become someone else's,
> And *you have no control what's done with them*. And what there bred into.


Control?

But why or how would I want control over someone else's spiders?


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Why? Maybe because some get things out of perspective.  There are people in my country today who are getting poorer, sicker, there are lots of things that are_ worth_ mass emotional energy, but someone that has bought and paid for two spiders, and manages to cross breed them..? No. That does not merit much in the way of energy, at all really, does it..?
> 
> *shrugs*


Your country? Scotland? Its the same all over the UK...

& this is a spider/Tarantula forum, so that's what we talk about, if you want to start on about the state of the economy then start a thread about it, don't slide it into a discussion about cross breeding tarantulas.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> Your country? Scotland?* Its the same all over the UK...*
> 
> & this is a spider/Tarantula forum, so that's what we talk about, if you want to start on about the state of the economy then start a thread about it, don't slide it into a discussion about cross breeding tarantulas.


I know this.

And even worse beyond. I am not speaking about the economy, I was merely making the point that on a T forum, one should be able to ask a question, which was clearly aimed at a pet, without ....well...this to be honest.

But you bash on, I am sure you will get a couple of likes for it.

Well done to you.


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## SamWest (Sep 11, 2012)

Mr Mister said:


> I was merely making the point that on a T forum



That's exactly what we're all doing.
there's no double standards here


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## pcharlton (Mar 23, 2012)

Mr Mister said:


> I know this.
> 
> And even worse beyond. I am not speaking about the economy, I was merely making the point that on a T forum, one should be able to ask a question, which was clearly aimed at a pet, without ....well...this to be honest.
> 
> ...


Yeh one from me get a life, bird or spiders to me you dont seem to have much going on :lol2::lol2:


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## Pomegranate (Apr 7, 2013)

Whilst I do not see the point in hybridisation other than to see what you can breed to what and whether the offspring will be viable, I do think it is slightly over the top to say that through hybridising people are in some way punished with "mongrel" stock. If someone with a private collection wishes to attempt a bit of hybridisation then I'm not going to stomp my feet and fly into a rage about the dilution of purity or mongrels or whatever else people worry about. If people were passing them off as pure, then yes that's an issue, but I have a feeling most pass them off as pure because they know what sort of reaction they'd receive if they were to be honest about the fact they were hybrids.

In my mind it is quite simple: does the act of hybridisation actively harm the tarantulas involved anymore than the usual risk of trying to mate two tarantulas? No? Then you move on to asking whether the resulting offspring will be actively harmed as a result of their genetic makeup. No? Then the only issue is that people want to keep their breeding stock pure. They want a species to be as pure as possible due to various reasons, be that preserving the natural beauty of the species or simply because they disagree with unnecessary hybridisation. If someone is hybridising their tarantulas I would prefer it to have a purpose, the cultivation of specific traits perhaps rather than throwing together tarantulas and seeing what becomes of the mix, but that's just me.

I'm not sure if anyone has actively looked into the health effects of hybridisation in tarantulas, somebody must have at some point it seems like the sort of area people would be interested in investigating.


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## SamWest (Sep 11, 2012)

So... answer me this- is it ethically, morally okay, sensible to pair a P.murinus with a G.rosea?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

pcharlton said:


> Yeh one from me get a life, bird or spiders to me you dont seem to have much going on :lol2::lol2:


 *Sigh*

Another internet 'star'.

I am in awe.

Look. Here is how I see it. Why not address some part of what I did say, rather than talk crap on the net? Can you do that, P Charlton?

:whistling2:


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> I know this.
> 
> And even worse beyond. I am not speaking about the economy, I was merely making the point that on a T forum, one should be able to ask a question, which was clearly aimed at a pet, without ....well...this to be honest.
> 
> ...


Yeah,yeah, very good,..
it was, was it not, you that started the debate,? knowing that hobbyists feel pretty strongly about the matter, what did you expect,?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

SamWest said:


> So... answer me this- is it ethically, morally okay, sensible to pair a P.murinus with a G.rosea?


Morally? Ethically? I am not really sure if morality comes into it.

I think it would be better if the person bred from the same species, however, since you can do nothing about it at all, and there is no way of stopping it at all, it is futile to get angry over it.

However.

Where I do think it is good to have these discussions, is in the case of anyone that may be considering it, unwittingly thinking they may not be doing any harm.

In which case, the best way to address them, or even those that do it knowingly, is through patient and reasonable discussion, not through saracasm and people playing little games of clique on an internet forum.

That's my position, apologies if it not the exact same as what you have in mind.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

martin3 said:


> Yeah,yeah, very good,..
> it was, was it not, you that started the debate,? knowing that hobbyists feel pretty strongly about the matter, what did you expect,?


I have to agree with you there Martin.

Steve, what was the point of this thread? Surely you must be aware of how keepers/breeders feel about cross/hybridisation of any type of animal? Did you just want this thread to turn into the usual type of thread about this subject?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> what did you expect,?


Reasonable discussion, free of remarks about people's personal life, that you do not know at all?

Too much?

No?

Good - please join in then.

: victory:


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## Pomegranate (Apr 7, 2013)

SamWest said:


> So... answer me this- is it ethically, morally okay, sensible to pair a P.murinus with a G.rosea?


My first thought would be to ask why you would pair those particular species, what you were hoping to achieve, whether you had considered the outcome and if you had looked at the viability of the match itself. The you in this case obviously being the person who wanted to cross those particular species. Ethics and morals would hang on the particulars rather than the generalities. 


I, personally, have no interest in hybridising spiders nor do I see the point in it. If someone could defend their pairing and leave me thinking that the only potential issue would be for those seeking to keep their stock pure then I would be hard pressed to find an ethical/moral reason to kick up anything more than a "have you seriously thought about why you're pairing these particular species together?" fuss.

I have ethical and moral reasons to disagree with large numbers of wild caught spiders being sold to the general market as opposed to sustainable collection, and I would have ethical and moral reasons to disagree with the pairing of species which were completely incompatible in terms of requirements and/or mating habits, but sometimes the only reasons I have to disagree with pairings are that they would make it harder for those who wish to breed pure specimens to source breeding stock that had not been tainted. The ethical wrong there would be the lack of records detailing the lineage of the specimens and the lack of honesty too, but the actual act of crossing them depends on the specific situation.


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> Reasonable discussion, free of remarks about people's personal life, that you do not know at all?
> 
> Too much?
> 
> ...


If you could point out ANY remarks I have made about your personal life then do so,.


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## sp1d8r (Feb 16, 2010)

I knew when this post went up it would open a can of worms :whistling2:

OP I know it is an interesting subject but the major downfall of these kind of questions is passionate keepers and researchers see it as blastpheme because so much work has went into taxonomy over the years that to ruin a species undoes all the hard work. Technically if someone took it upon themselves to hybridize say 2 species of pokie, thats their choice,but even a small yield of spiderlings is never going to stay in that persons posession, they will give some to friends then they maybe sell it on eventually someone is going to sell it as a pure species hence bloodying the gene pool of that species. Especially with pokies as their habitat is being destroyed and they stand on the precipice of endangerment, some already are.

Another example springs to mind not with T's though it was on a forum in the US about pythons. At the time no one had gotten Boelens pythons to successfully reproduce in captivity, only eggs yielded were from WC gravid females. Some guy took it upon himself to breed his male Boelens with his female carpet python, and some of the hatchlings looked like pure Boelens....And he got slated big time for it. His arguement was that they would never leave his posession, but who knows if he was to hit financial troubles and had to sell them, even if sold as hybrids someone down the line would see £ signs and sell them as pure, unbeknowing to him tarnishing a gene pool that was yet to be even established properly in captivity :bash:


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## sage999 (Sep 21, 2008)

Cross breeding has been attempted in the past. I read a report about an american breeder who cross bred P irminia & P cambridgei. The resulting offspring were both unattractive and sterile. Honestly there are more than enough beautiful species in the hobby without us attempting to turn it into the freak show that has blighted other sections of herpetology.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

sp1d8r said:


> I knew when this post went up it would open a can of worms :whistling2:
> 
> OP I know it is an interesting subject but the major downfall of these kind of questions is passionate keepers and researchers see it as blastpheme because so much work has went into taxonomy over the years that to ruin a species undoes all the hard work. Technically if someone took it upon themselves to hybridize say 2 species of pokie, thats their choice,but even a small yield of spiderlings is never going to stay in that persons posession, they will give some to friends then they maybe sell it on eventually someone is going to sell it as a pure species hence bloodying the gene pool of that species. Especially with pokies as their habitat is being destroyed and they stand on the precipice of endangerment, some already are.
> 
> Another example springs to mind not with T's though it was on a forum in the US about pythons. At the time no one had gotten Boelens pythons to successfully reproduce in captivity, only eggs yielded were from WC gravid females. Some guy took it upon himself to breed his male Boelens with his female carpet python, and some of the hatchlings looked like pure Boelens....And he got slated big time for it. His arguement was that they would never leave his posession, but who knows if he was to hit financial troubles and had to sell them, even if sold as hybrids someone down the line would see £ signs and sell them as pure, unbeknowing to him tarnishing a gene pool that was yet to be even established properly in captivity :bash:


 
All v well made points, thanks for that.

In the end, I did make it clear that I would not do it, nor do I intend to, nor do I recommend it, I was merely curious if people got so angry about it if it were one case, and the spiderlings were given to those that actually wanted the hybrid species, to keep as pets, or if they were mainly bothered about traders doing it, either knowingly, or sometimes perhaps unwittingly knowing that they have something that is not 100% of what it should be.

However, with all of that said, people should be able to discuss things in a calm manner, whatever their view. I have never heard someone be won over to the view of another by being rude to them, or any such thing. The best way to win someone over (someone reading this, maybe thinking about it), is with reasonable and calm chat, that also applies a sense of perspective.

There are people that don't_ or_ do buy WC. I don't feel esp strongly either way, so long as what is being removed is not going to create an extinction scenario. There are those on here, traders, that have different ways of selling their stock. And, imo, they get too many people in their face for it. Either buy from them or do_ not_ buy from them, to my mind, no one is forcing anyone, why use the net to run them down? Yet it goes on. 

It's just opinions and views, in the end.

On a forum about spiders.

: victory:


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

sage999 said:


> Cross breeding has been attempted in the past. I read a report about an american breeder who cross bred P irminia & P cambridgei. The resulting offspring were both unattractive *and sterile*. Honestly there are more than enough beautiful species in the hobby without us attempting to turn it into the freak show that has blighted other sections of herpetology.


Then you have a sound biological reason, right there.

: victory:


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## sp1d8r (Feb 16, 2010)

Its such a touchy subject with people though...even the word hybrid brings the defenses up because assume your gonna do it.. 

Personally speaking I think Arachnologists have enough on their plate arguing amongst each other trying to decide which species should be reclassified without having hybrids thrown into the mix :lol2:


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## sp1d8r (Feb 16, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> Then you have a sound biological reason, right there.
> 
> : victory:


Not always the case though...heres a good article on hybrid fertility

Hybrid Infertility


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

sp1d8r said:


> Its such a touchy subject with people though...even the word hybrid brings the defenses up because assume your gonna do it..
> 
> Personally speaking I think Arachnologists have enough on their plate arguing amongst each other trying to decide which species should be reclassified without having hybrids thrown into the mix :lol2:


Well, what a shame if the world has become so assumptive and defensive, if that is the case, S. 

Me? I am personally prepared to answer or ask any given thing, I realise that people may be curious, and often by asking things, you learn things, but the mere proposition does not = endorsement, of course.

I actually like it when I see a question on here that at least has some potential to it, rather than something about a Chile Rose that has not eaten for two days, 'what_ should_ I do'?

However, I guess if a given subject enraged me that much, I would probably not post on the subject, or if I did, I would not start out by assuming the author was giving an endorsement of the thing, because, to be honest...being that way.....no use on the internet, no use in life. I always find calmly explained answers + examples works better than accusations, rants and anger.: victory:

One could argue the ethics of a lot of things, heck, some may even argue the ethics of people like me having the tiny number I do in captivity, and I respect they have a POV, I may not agree entirely with them,_ or at all_, but if I wish to turn them around, only by informing and being friendly can that be done, not by raging for no reason.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

sp1d8r said:


> Not always the case though...heres a good article on hybrid fertility
> 
> Hybrid Infertility


If I click this, will I be_ fully_ evil?


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## sage999 (Sep 21, 2008)

This must be an emotive subject, otherwise us idiots wouldn't still be sat at our keyboards discussing it a 2am. :blush:


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## Pomegranate (Apr 7, 2013)

Mr Mister said:


> *
> One could argue the ethics of a lot of things, heck, some may even argue the ethics of people like me having the tiny number I do in captivity, and I respect they have a POV, I may not agree entirely with them, or at all, but if I wish to turn them around, only by informing and being friendly can that be done, not by raging for no reason*.


That is a very, very good point.

I love the passion people have for their hobby, and I love the fact they're so willing to share their information with people, but the way in which people can sometimes appear as if they are having full blown tantrums I do sometimes feel like people end up talking over each other simply because they are so set that something is wrong/right that they never take the time to calmly consider the other point of view.

Regarding the American breeder and his attempts at crossing... interesting, I shall have to look for that report and add it to my reading list.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

pcharlton said:


> Ts dont have the same sex organs whats the point of crosing when there loads to buy


spot on there paul.
plus what makes this hobby so amazing is the range of t's out there to buy! if x breeding happens 1day there will be very few pure t's left to buy .
I AM 100% AGAINST CROSS BREEDING its not needed or wanted.


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## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

OP
Because from the go it causes various problems.
While people cross geckos, snakes and other similar things to produce more colourful offspring, all that has ever been produced with tarantulas is weaker and weaker specimens.
Not all hybrids are sterile, when Poecilotheria smithi first (or second, I can't remember) generation were bred, a mature male of a different species was used when a smithi could not be found (impatience)
This lead to hybrids and because it was basically the base of the species to enter the hobby, most of them in the hobby today are hybrids to some degree. There are a handful of people with guaranteed pure breeds but their offspring get sold on, grow on, reach maturity and are likely to be bred with one of the (basically a hobby smithi).
While that's all well and good as it adds purity to the gene pool it would take much effort to put it all right again, and mostly what I hear when people breed them is 'eggsack was no good, eggsack had 3 viable offspring inside'.
The problem with pairing different species is (as said a few posts ago) not many people I know would keep all the young until they die for whatever reason, if they fully intend to do so, who is to say they person won't become too ill, have an accident making them unable to do so. when you look at all the Brachy hybrids out there you can only imagine where the other 400+ from each eggsack went and what happened with them.
Also there is enough people unintentionally cross breeding out there, for an instance, taking a pet shop's label as gospel and pairing it with a spider sporting the same label from someone else (which also may not be correctly identified).
Just recently I've seen so many people posting (what is my spider?) pictures, but even more questionable is some of the answers given.
I won't go into why common names potentially open up another bag of problems.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

All good + well made points there, DD.

Thanks


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Mr Mister said:


> Control?
> 
> But why or how would I want control over someone else's spiders?


I don't mean control in a like dictator term. What I mean is you can loose control of the spiders genetics, If you have a hybrid spider ideally you want it really to just be a non bred pet, Or if breeding the hybrid is possible a hybrid to hybrid breeding of the spiders with the same parentage. You don't want a hybrid to parent breeding as this is when they start to look pure. IMO if any one must hybrid i find the 50/50 hybrids to be the best as they tend to have a more uneek look. But i don't think the T's colour range in hybrids would work well like it does in say Birds, Snakes'etc.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

AilsaM said:


> And you felt the need to quote me, why? I'm not an expert but I still have an opinion.


I quoted you, as I was in agreement, do you feel that people you don't like aren't allowed to quote you or something?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

gazz said:


> I don't mean control in a like dictator term. .


 
Well, Gazz, you should have made that clear last night, as I have just this morning drawn on a short moustache, jackboots, and visibly forced control over all the spider owners in my locale...


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

Biggys said:


> I quoted you, as I was in agreement, do you feel that people you don't like aren't allowed to quote you or something?


No I don't.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

AilsaM said:


> No I don't.


Well why make an issue out of me quoting you then?


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

Biggys said:


> Well why make an issue out of me quoting you then?


Past comments from you and the fact your comment seemed to be insinuating that my opinions are nothing but rubbish.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

AilsaM said:


> Past comments from you and the fact your comment seemed to be insinuating that my opinions are nothing but rubbish.


Well in my mind 99% of what you post is utter crap, but that is just my opinion, so no need to blow you tampon out over it.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

You could always PM this to one another, or write it on each other's walls?

Just sayin'...


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> You could always PM this to one another, or write it on each other's walls?
> 
> Just sayin'...


I could, or I could discuss why she seems to have an issue, on the thread in which it happened?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Biggys said:


> I could, or I could discuss why she seems to have an issue, on the thread in which it happened?


You could, but that then assumes that everyone is interested in whatever problem you have with this girl.

I'm personally not, and would sooner you went to topic.

Thanks


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> You could, but that then assumes that everyone is interested in whatever problem you have with this girl.
> 
> I'm personally not, and would sooner you went to topic.
> 
> Thanks


I like how you assume I am the one with the problem?

I was just pointing out the fact that whenever someone she doesn't like quotes her, she kicks up a fuss.. it's quite childish really...


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't care what your problem is with her, why, when or how.

Either take your petty spat with her to a PM, or return to the topic, I ain't playing ping pong with you over this.

I have asked you nicely, three times now...please return to the topic.

Cheers


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> You could always PM this to one another, or write it on each other's walls?
> 
> Just sayin'...


What like you do,?............................................Not.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

Biggys said:


> I like how you assume I am the one with the problem?
> 
> I was just pointing out the fact that whenever someone she doesn't like quotes her, she kicks up a fuss.. it's quite childish really...


Oh how I would really love to say exactly what I want to say and believe me Tyler after some of the things you have said to/about me in other sections, it's really quite colourful but I'd rather not get banned for my comments.

So, I will simply apologise to the OP for being the cause of his thread going, or should I say being taken off topic and keep the thread on topic.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> I don't care what your problem is with her, why, when or how.
> 
> Either take your petty spat with her to a PM, or return to the topic, I ain't playing ping pong with you over this.
> 
> ...



Well as I said I don't actually have a problem with her, she just seems to have one with me...

so how about you hop down off your high horse you jumped up little man.

stop talking to me like I have :censor: written across my forehead




I remember the days when RFUK used to love a debate on a thread, and wasn't full of people getting all pissy over it...


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> What like you do,?............................................Not.


I am not asking you, Martin, I am not remotely interested in you, or you about me, or Ailsa about some other stranger on the internet.

What I am interested in is the topic.

Discuss it.


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Biggys said:


> Well as I said I don't actually have a problem with her, .


Good news.

So can you get back to the topic then, please.

Thanks


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

Mr Mister said:


> You could, but that then assumes that everyone is interested in whatever problem you have with this girl.
> 
> I'm personally not, and would sooner you went to topic.
> 
> Thanks


Hahaha!!, your a hypocrite, look at your posts last night, complaining about me,..practice what you preach,..


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

martin3 said:


> Hahaha!!, your a hypocrite, look at your posts last night, complaining about me,..practice what you preach,..


No, last night I was telling you to quit your childish little games on the internet, and discuss something approaching the topic.

And again tonight, it would seem.

But, tell you what, you keep on with that, that is fine.

: victory:


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> Good news.
> 
> So can you get back to the topic then, please.
> 
> Thanks


Ooooo I love patronising :censor:heads :flrt:

Right before we get back on topic would you like me to get your dummy off the floor mate?


Ok personally, I think it shouldn't be done, it messes with the genetics of the animal and you will just end up with a hobby full of mongrels and mutts. alot like dogs are getting now-a-days.


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

AilsaM said:


> *Oh how I would really love to say exactly what I want to say and believe me Tyler after some of the things you have said to/about me in other sections, it's really quite colourful but I'd rather not get banned for my comments.*
> 
> So, I will simply apologise to the OP for being the cause of his thread going, or should I say being taken off topic and keep the thread on topic.


Tell you what Ailsa I have a PM box for a reason...say what you want to say in there, i'm interested now.


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## SamWest (Sep 11, 2012)

mr mister, are you making threads purely to get a negative reaction and then moan about it ?


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## spidersteve (Jan 25, 2010)

With Theraphosids a lot of the time its a case of the key wont fit the lock and hybridisation is very difficult, However it does occur within a genus, which sometimes is part of the natural process of evolution. Why someone would want to knowingly hybridize spiders is something I don't personally understand myself but it does happen and a lot more frequently than you think! It wouldn't surprise me if a large percentage of spiders in the UK were the result of bad pairings especially within a certain genus that allow simple mistakes to happen, Then of course you have the people who will breed anything to make a quick pound regardless of the consequences. I've had a few close calls myself and you can never be too careful and if in doubt just don't breed them! My tuppence worth is this: 

Why do we need to mess with something that has evolved very little in 350 million years, Which is impressive in its own right! Leave it alone and enjoy them for what they already are...Simply awesome!


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## sp1d8r (Feb 16, 2010)

The Hybrid-Driven Evolution of Hominids | Rokus Blog


spidersteve said:


> With Theraphosids a lot of the time its a case of the key wont fit the lock and hybridisation is very difficult, However it does occur within a genus, which sometimes is part of the natural process of evolution. Why someone would want to knowingly hybridize spiders is something I don't personally understand myself but it does happen and a lot more frequently than you think! It wouldn't surprise me if a large percentage of spiders in the UK were the result of bad pairings especially within a certain genus that allow simple mistakes to happen, Then of course you have the people who will breed anything to make a quick pound regardless of the consequences. I've had a few close calls myself and you can never be too careful and if in doubt just don't breed them! My tuppence worth is this:
> 
> Why do we need to mess with something that has evolved very little in 350 million years, Which is impressive in its own right! Leave it alone and enjoy them for what they already are...Simply awesome!


Good call m8 :2thumb: they are marvellous in their own right, and if it happens in nature its not been influenced by humans...true sometimes hybridization is necessary for evolutionary speciation...it has been said that our species possibly resulted from hybridizing...
http://rokus01.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/the-hybrid-driven-evolution-of-hominids/


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

SamWest said:


> mr mister, are you making threads purely to get a negative reaction and then moan about it ?


If people wish to agree or disagree with the topic, that is all good.

But I am not interested in people using the thread as a means to carry on some sort of bad blood they must have, from something else. Also, their emotions are their problem.

Now, if it's okay with you, do you mind if I ask that we can all return to the topic..


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## Biggys (Jun 6, 2010)

Mr Mister said:


> If people wish to agree or disagree with the topic, that is all good.
> 
> But I am not interested in people using the thread as a means to carry on some sort of bad blood they must have, from something else. Also, their emotions are their problem.
> 
> Now, if it's okay with you, do you mind if I ask that we can all return to the topic..


You can't seem to work it into your thick skull that there isn't bad blood can you...may I ask, do you need assistance to blind and breath at the same time or are you genuinely trying to be stupid on purpose?


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## Mr Mister (Oct 12, 2011)

Biggys said:


> You can't seem to work it into your thick skull that there isn't bad blood can you...may I ask, do you need assistance to blind and breath at the same time or are you genuinely trying to be stupid on purpose?


More internet abuse.

Is this what you do with yourself? Hurl abuse, and bully girls on the internet, as well?

Sad stuff.


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## kato (May 12, 2007)

:closed: As people should act their age not their shoe size.


Simon.
Administrator.


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