# Gravid or ovulating?



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

So I have been out of breeding snakes for years and recently decided to get back into it.
I have paired up a few of my snakes and 2 of the females look huge. Massive bulge in them.
Thibg is as the title suggests, because I've been out for so long I can't tell if this is due to ovulation or being gravid.
I have witnessed multiple locks with all pairings I have made. 

Hopefully these pictures will help.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Has it shed?

Once they ovulate they will then shed. Then you know they're most likely gravid.


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

LiasisUK said:


> Has it shed?
> 
> Once they ovulate they will then shed. Then you know they're most likely gravid.


Yes both snakes have shed roughly 20ish days ago. From memory theres a ovulation shed and then a prelay shed? 
The nornal looks like she's swallowed a coke can which again from memory is a dead giveaway but I kinda expected more of her body to be like that. Thanks.


----------



## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Laying inverted at all? Mainly sit at hot or cold end? 

Yes they'll usually shed just before ovulation and then again afterwards (the prelay). I've never really recorded the ovulation shed. Just the prelay. Ovulation sheds vary and I've had snakes just do a 'normal' shed. 

Prelay is 3 to 4 weeks before laying from what I remember for royals (only ever bred them at my old work, not at home). They're usually quite clearly gravid if they've had prelay shed. They'll look big, feel 'full', lay upside down and in funny positions and usually won't move away from the heat source. 

I think yours may still be in the development process. Throw a male back in, that's often a good indicator. Less likely to lock and/or express interest if the female is gravid.


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

Hugging the heat end like there's no tomorrow but don't lay any different than they normally do although the pinstripe does now sit more coiled like how they would on top of eggs.

I threw a male in with them after their last shed assuming it was an ovulation shed, normally they would lock the same day however both females were having none of it and I don't know if throwing a male in with a gravid female could cause any stress to them during such a taxing period id rather avoid causing them undue stress.

Pinstripe is a proven breeder too but like I said its been about 7 years since I bred royals and forgot a lot of their behaviour during this time.


----------



## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I think they're definitely going in the right direction, but yes maybe not a prelay. Can you feel any eggs in them? 

You'll know in the next week or so, as you'll either get eggs or they'll go into shed again lol.


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

So I can feel something in there again I don't know if its eggs or follicles. I'm more co Vincent the normal is gravid over the pinstripe due to that massive bulge.

Just checked ob them both there no eggs but again still a week or 2 early even if they were gravid.

I'm happy to throw the male back in there if need be just again if they are gravid I don't want having a male in causing any complications.


----------



## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

If they feel full and he started ignoring them I would just leave them to it


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

Meaning leave the male snake in there or just wait for them to drop eggs?


----------



## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

If he showed no interest last time then I would just leave the females to it and not pair


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

It's really hard to say. Last season my Lesser Pastel seemed to show the same bloated appearance in March 2021, and lifting her tail there was a concave appearance suggesting a tail suck which everyone told me was a sure sign of ovulation.... But I kept introducing the male and observed several more locks. In May the female would spend a couple of hours under the heat, sometimes having the lower 2/3 on the side to expose her belly to the heat, and then move to the cool side and do the same. I kept the introductions up through May, and on the 16th June I noticed another increase in her lower 2/3, and she was becoming a lot brighter, the old glow before they go ! - The next day she had a noticeable coke can bulge, and very strong tail suck that was noticeable side on with out the need to lift her tail. She went straight into blue and had her pre-lay shed 17 days after ovulation, laying 9 eggs 28 days later on 1st August.

Hope that helps....

Edit - here's a picture


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

Malc said:


> It's really hard to say. Last season my Lesser Pastel seemed to show the same bloated appearance in March 2021, and lifting her tail there was a concave appearance suggesting a tail suck which everyone told me was a sure sign of ovulation.... But I kept introducing the male and observed several more locks. In May the female would spend a couple of hours under the heat, sometimes having the lower 2/3 on the side to expose her belly to the heat, and then move to the cool side and do the same. I kept the introductions up through May, and on the 16th June I noticed another increase in her lower 2/3, and she was becoming a lot brighter, the old glow before they go ! - The next day she had a noticeable coke can bulge, and very strong tail suck that was noticeable side on with out the need to lift her tail. She went straight into blue and had her pre-lay shed 17 days after ovulation, laying 9 eggs 28 days later on 1st August.
> 
> Hope that helps....
> 
> ...


My big normal has a lump very similar to that, slightly smaller (so I assume a smaller clutch than yours) I'm trying not to disturb them but if I can get a picture I'll upload it.

From what I remember she shed back end of December or first week January. Pinstripe was about a week after.

Both them are also off food too which is unheard of for these they will eat even during a shed they probably miss about 4 feeds a year again I know this is another sign of being gravid due to not being able to fit food in.
Fingers crossed, only time will tell I suppose.


----------



## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

It sounds very much like your snakes are ovulating. Here's another image taken moments before the one above which shows the amount of swelling.










She's almost 7 years old, around 1.4m and at the start of the introductions weighed in a 2.8kg. Both her 2019 and 2021 clutches produced 9 eggs each season, weighing in at a few grams shy of 1kg total for each clutch, with an average 98g per egg.

Interesting that your females are ovulating in January.... I've tried starting paring early, but on both seasons it's been August before I've got eggs....you've got quite a head start on most people breeding Royals


----------

