# what to have befor a Gaboon



## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

ok I love the look of the Gaboon and would love to get one but have no experience with dwa animals, so what would be a good snake to have to help me so if I ever got one it would not kill me within the first 10 mins


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

The best thing to do is search down through the DWA fourm and find this topic. We see it fairly often and typically the same answers. Now that doesn't make this question any less important. Just a good starting place. Also look on any venomous forum to find this same question will give you several different responses and opinions. 

Look for First hot, First venomous ect. 

I Personally think Panamint rattlers make great starters due to their layed back nature. Copperheads are not to bad but can be aggressive, Pymgmy rattlers come in as verity of color phases also not overly aggressive. 

These are some thoughts basied on size and aggression. Non of these guys will get over 3ft and are for the most part easy to work with. 

The Best Way is to find a mentor someone who will give you the hands on exsperience.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

ok thank you for your post


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i like copperheads myself.. very managable.


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## axlandslash44x (Jan 3, 2008)

but an excrutiating bite


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

axlandslash44x said:


> but an excrutiating bite


 
the idea is not to be bitten.....:lol2:


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

axlandslash44x said:


> but an excrutiating bite


I'll take excrutiating over "I think it caught me" followed by entering a coma some 10 seconds later....

bit of a pointless thing to say in the DWA section really!

Copperheads are great, they can be a bit pissy but so can any snake.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

if your bitten by a copperhead its still going to ruin your day, I can think of one person here in the UK, that lost part of his finger after being bitten by one. But a gaboon is going do serious damage, with some people dieing even with AV and hospital treatment, but a gaboon is probably less likely to bite than a copperhead, but when it does its incredibly fast and powerful and can strike with no warning at all angles, still the goal is to not get bitten, you need to feel confident without being cocky that you can safely keep the animal.


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## wba6745 (Jan 11, 2007)

for me there's is a limit to what i would keep,if you do get bit you need time to get to the hospital and time for them to treat you with what you need once they've finished flapping it's not every day someone rock's up to a hospital and say's ive been bit by a venomous snake,so for me a gabby even though ide love one is going way over the mark,start off with an adult well worked with calm red/western dimondback rattler,copperhead,keeping a venomous snake is nothing like keeping any non venomous there just so quick it's untrue,it's all about starting off slowly and building your confidence over a period of time but always start at the bottom of the ladder and work your way up


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

keeping venomous snakes is like owning a motorcycle.... they'll both kill you if you are careless or over-confident. in a careful and experienced person's hands, both are safe and fun. in the wrong hands it's just an accident waiting to happen....


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Trouble is there aren't really any "trainer" hots, you've either got fast, feisty non-venomous or you're into the proper stuff. I'd go for a Boiga sp. Whilst they're not DWA, they can be quick, bitey and, if you're daft/slow enough to allow them to get a good chew on you, they can make you quite sick. No paralysis, no necrosis, no bleeding from every orifice and unless allergic............no death


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## wba6745 (Jan 11, 2007)

habu that's bang on mate mate but you would'nt have a 1300 for your first bike,it's always best to start of slow so as you grow your collection expands into different thing's

by the way i have a suzuki gsx1300 hayabusa the king of bikes:no1:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Maybe try a black mamba. Good learning curve before you get a gaboon :crazy:


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Trouble is there aren't really any "trainer" hots, you've either got fast, feisty non-venomous or you're into the proper stuff. I'd go for a Boiga sp. Whilst they're not DWA, they can be quick, bitey and, if you're daft/slow enough to allow them to get a good chew on you, they can make you quite sick. No paralysis, no necrosis, no bleeding from every orifice and unless allergic............no death


 
Thats quite a good idea i could look into doing something like that


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont think anything non venomous will really prepare you for a hot, IMO you should find someone to mentor you so you can work under guidance with hots.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

got to agree with Si, learn from someone else, find someone with a DWA in your area and approach them with regard to mentoring. It will help with your DWAL application to be able to demonstrate some form of tuition/mentoring, plus it's handy to have someone to call in the event of a problem.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah its good to have a back up handler, my council specifically asked for one to be named.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

ok thanks guys for your help i think i know what i am going to do, 
for now i am just going to keep non DWA animals untill i get a bigger house then i will be looking to get myself someone who can mentor me untill i am happy that i will not kill myself and my family then i might see about getting my DWA

thanks again for your help guys


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> got to agree with Si, learn from someone else, find someone with a DWA in your area and approach them with regard to mentoring. It will help with your DWAL application to be able to demonstrate some form of tuition/mentoring, plus it's handy to have someone to call in the event of a problem.


 
A lot of councils INSIST on you having mentoring AND a backup handler.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah mine insisted on a back up handler and someone to look after the snakes in event of me going on holiday, but they didnt press the mentor bit too much, although they did ask what relevant experience I had.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

SiUK said:


> yeah mine insisted on a back up handler and someone to look after the snakes in event of me going on holiday, but they didnt press the mentor bit too much, although they did ask what relevant experience I had.


What experince did you have when you first started and how long you been doing it now


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

only been keeping since christmas, but I visited a mate alot over the past year or so, and watched him work picked his brains and had a go myself, so I know hes always there to help out if I have any questions or problems, read several books on the subject as well. Made a few golden rules that I will never break.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

SiUK said:


> only been keeping since christmas, but I visited a mate alot over the past year or so, and watched him work picked his brains and had a go myself, so I know hes always there to help out if I have any questions or problems, read several books on the subject as well. Made a few golden rules that I will never break.


 
What are the rules? if you dont mind me asking


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

just obvious ones really

Never work with them unless im totally with it, ie not tired distracted, or obviously any alcohol.

Never put my hand anywhere within strike range thinking it wont be able to reach, if its in the tub or viv I will not do anything without very long hemostats or in the majority of cases removing it and securing it.

Never open a viv or tub without equipment right next to me just in case.

Always have a mobile phone in the hot room when im working, or someone very near by.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

good rules really


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

its just common sense ones really, but I recon people can become complacent, so for me its important to have those rules written down just to keep me in check. Sometimes as well may sound daft but reading about people that have been bitten and seeing pics of bites, is a very sobering thing and really makes me realise just how dangerous snakes like this are, its just a healthy reminder for me to stay on my toes, having said that I feel privaliged that I have the chance to keep and work with these animals.


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

how many DWA's do you have?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

just two at the moment


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## lentaylor (Jan 7, 2008)

so do you plan to get move then?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah, theres more in the pipelines over time.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

hi guys, can i just say i think you are all quiet brave keeping theese snakes, i find the fascinating, and always check the posts in this room, but they scare the shit out of me!

as much as i like them, i would never have the confidence to handle one.
thats why i wouldnt keep one, geuse confidence is a big part of keeping DWAs.

do ride bikes though ZX6R

main reason for this reply is to ask what the term HOT/HOTS means?

do apologise if im being thick and over looking the obvious!

just one last thing, is a black mamba not as dangerous as a gabbon, always thought they were hig on the list.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Hot means Venomous.

Back to the topic at hand. There are other responsibilities that often get over looked. I'm not sure if you guys have vets that will treat venomous snakes. Over here they are few and far between so we end up treating the snakes our selves. Requires a little more than the average snake. Also knowing people withy the knowledge and experience helps a lot. 

I feel the people I have met on these forums have made me a better keep all the way around. I still have alot to learn but thinking back when I made the post whats a good starter Hot I have come along way. : victory:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

you have a bomb collection... seriously..:no1:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Come on, you're a bunch of chicken. Please someone free-handle a gaboon and post the video.

If you don't do that what's the point in having them ? I don't have venomous because I know for a fact I'd not last a week, but if I had I'd try to develop the skills to free handle them.

Otherwise you better off going to a zoo or buy a DVD of pros who can handle them :crazy:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

You are taking the p:censor: aren't you?...................................aren't you??

free handling hots is a piece of p:censor:. put your hand in, grab it and away you go. Just remember to get it back in its viv and secure the door before you pass out.

(for the feeble minded, the above was a joke. I am not suggesting anyone do that..............no, really....don't)


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

stuartdouglas said:


> You are taking the p:censor: aren't you?...................................aren't you??


 
At the same time I am, and I am not.

Of couse I'm teasing people into feeling an urge to free-handle them.

There are thousands of people who free-handle hots around the world. We've seen people like Steve doing, but how many Steve's don't have a tv show.

Bascially what I'm saying is that there are even non-venomous snakes that people keep just as a decoration to their homes because the snakes are not handable, snappy, too shy, etc.

I'd not keep these snakes, because the thing I like most is working closely to my snakes, handle them, etc (that why I'm a boa keeper, which for me are the best snakes to work with and handle).

But if I had a hot, I'd do whatever required (even travel to countries in Asia or Africa where there are quite a few native people who specialised in handling venomous snakes since they were young) to study their behaviour and learn how to handle them.

Otherwise they would be pretty much part of the furniture, and since I've got no vocation to become a venom extractor, I'd probably get bored of having a snake that I can't handle.


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## leeh1985 (Dec 6, 2006)

Im sorry but i was reading this post at was enjoying reading everyone's comments until i saw the part about free handling!

I get what your saying Dexter but in my opinion what you are saying is wrong!

You are giving a false statement in saying it's ok to free handle hots as long as you are well trained.

I don't care what anyone says nobody can be a expert when it comes ot free handling a hot, i would never free handle a hot no matter how tame i thought it was as the more times you do this the more times you will be less focused and thats were accidents happen.

I understand what you mean but i strongly disagree with your statement!


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I respect what you're saying. In all honesty, I'm a bit of a piss taker, so sometimes I don't express myself exaclty as I want because I get stuck in between what I really think with my head and what I think with my heart.

I've seen loads of documentaries about people free handling hots, and I'm sure there are loads of people out there doing it. It's probably more than skills though it's a life style, which probably doesn't fit with the life style of normal people who work from 9 am - 5 pm in an office and work with the snakes at weekends.

So I agree with you fully that people should not attempt to free handle the snakes unless they really know what they are doing.

It's just that I really enjoy when I see people like Steve Irwin handling taipans, cobras, mambas, gaboons in wild. So I'd probably only have a hot if I had the time to spend time with people like him learning the tricks of the business.

For instance, I've seen loads of people handling cobras in my life, even saw it being done in front of me in Malaysia. This bloke dropped some 20 cobras on the street and handled them while talking to the crowd. He also had other venomous snakes there.

So I take it that cobras are probably one of the most predictable hots to work with as oppose to gaboons.

But anyway, you're probably right : victory:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Free handling is acceptable in some cultures. While I don't want to free handle venomous myself I kinda enjoy watching others who do have the nerve to tempt fate.

I'm not telling anyone to free handle their snakes it's very dangerious. I'm just saying not everyone see it as the ultimate sin.


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## Doodles (Aug 4, 2007)

most of mine even bite the hook from time to time. I would never consider putting any part of my body in strike range while it was still connected to me. However i know you can get snake proof boots so it's about time someone built a whole suit.


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

My female Black and white spitter likes to bit the hook she doesn't strike just turns her head to the side and chews. She does the same to anything coming into contact with her head floor, hook, cage. None of my other cobras do that but still not going to free handle.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

With regards to Steve Irwin (R.I.P) free handling hots, there was a comment made somewhere some time ago that the snakes he handled had been "prepared" by chilling in a fridge for some time before he handled them. Can't comment as to the truth of this but it would seem a sensible procedure to minimise the risk.............and it looks cool on TV


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## stuart89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Dexter said:


> I respect what you're saying. In all honesty, I'm a bit of a piss taker, so sometimes I don't express myself exaclty as I want because I get stuck in between what I really think with my head and what I think with my heart.
> 
> I've seen loads of documentaries about people free handling hots, and I'm sure there are loads of people out there doing it. It's probably more than skills though it's a life style, which probably doesn't fit with the life style of normal people who work from 9 am - 5 pm in an office and work with the snakes at weekends.
> 
> ...


In a lot of these cultures, they have the snakes defanged, so they basically pose NO harm to the handler, which is a sad thing to do as it decreases the longevity of the snake and quality of life. 

So what may look like a brave thing to do to his spectators, is actually no more dangerous than handling a corn snake. The snake has probably even learned that biting the handler will not make him let go, and has just given up trying to bite and appears "tame".

Let me refer you to this video of a cobra attacking a baby, this cobra has been defanged and poses no threat. 

Crazy Parents Let Baby Wrestle Cobra Video

In regards to people like steve irwin handing hots, if you notice he does handle them as much as he restrains them. He pins their heads down with a LONG tool (stick etc) and then holds them behind the head so the snake cannot bite him.

*He does not simple pick up the snake and let it roam freely as you would with a non-venomous

*The only other form of "handling" he does is to hold the snake by the tail, and keep the snake at maximum length with a long tool.

So Im sorry but if you are talking about handling live hots like you would do with your non venomous species, you are very much mistaken as nobody does this.

Stuart


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

stuartdouglas said:


> With regards to Steve Irwin (R.I.P) free handling hots, there was a comment made somewhere some time ago that the snakes he handled had been "prepared" by chilling in a fridge for some time before he handled them. Can't comment as to the truth of this but it would seem a sensible procedure to minimise the risk.............and it looks cool on TV


That's absolute rubbish. Blatant lie : victory:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

As i said, I can't vouch for the truth of it, but you seem sure that he didn't............how so?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I'm a big fan of Steve, followed his career all along. If you know the bloke the slightest you'd know he would never do that.

By the way, most times I saw him handling hots were in wild, in the middle of nowhere, or when called by residents to capture a snake that was posing threat.

He would never harm an animal intentionaly either, so that type of bullshit is only spread by people who didn't like him and make things up.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

I have the greatest respect for the man and his work, however, playing Devil's advocate here.........just because you see it on TV doesn't mean the shot hasn't been setup to look like he's just happened across this particular reptile. If you have been present when he's caught and handled some of these hots then you would have definitive proof that this alleged practice never occurred....................however,:whistling2:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

have to agree with dexter here guys! 

saying finding a random snake in the jungle and handling it was a set up, is as good as saying the guys carear was a lie.....

if things were set up for him to look brave the sting ray woulld of had no barb, and the crocks would have been sedated, more chance of surviving a snake bite then being snapped by a croc.....

R.I.P steve, your REAL fans believe in you!

steve and snakes pt 1, how chilled does this cobra look

YouTube - Steve Irwin snake doc

steve hanling an australian king brown

YouTube - Croc Hunter Movie - Behind The Scenes - King Brown Snake


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## cobra759 (Feb 27, 2008)

It's something I've often thought about keeping Venomous Snakes, but I think once you cross that line it becomes more than a hobby.

I've haven't ruled it out for definite, but I always like to way things up carefully, I'm not one for jumping in head first, as anyone keeping venomous snakes has to have procedures in place in case they are bitten, has to consider liability incase someone else is bitten, and finally has to work with these animals in the constant knowledge that there first mistake could be there last.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Dexter said:


> Come on, you're a bunch of chicken. Please someone free-handle a gaboon and post the video.
> 
> If you don't do that what's the point in having them ? I don't have venomous because I know for a fact I'd not last a week, but if I had I'd try to develop the skills to free handle them.
> 
> Otherwise you better off going to a zoo or buy a DVD of pros who can handle them :crazy:


Then don't ever get hot snakes mate!:no1:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

barrym said:


> Then don't ever get hot snakes mate!:no1:


I won't :crazy:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

knighty said:


> have to agree with dexter here guys!
> 
> saying finding a random snake in the jungle and handling it was a set up, is as good as saying the guys carear was a lie.....
> 
> ...


He's a legend. Put a smile on my face :no1:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

This is the cloest I'll ever come to free handling a gaboon. This guy is a venomoid that was given to me. I don't support the venomoid thing but free snake and he's also awesome looking. 









This is a friend of mine.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

are both these snakes de venomed.......

would that glove stop the bite?

is the pics from your back yard? bet next door must s**t a brick when they look out the window!


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

No that is at my friends house. The people next door don't seem to care either way. The glove would probably not stop a bite from a snake this big and the king cobras is fully loaded.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Eric said:


> No that is at my friends house. The people next door don't seem to care either way. The glove would probably not stop a bite from a snake this big and the king cobras is fully loaded.


wow thats a beast..... wouldnt want my hand near it!

how was the gabbon de venomed

what is it about putting your hand on the top of its head seen a few people do similar things, does it disoriantate the snake?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Eric, are all your mates nuts ? :lol2:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Dexter said:


> Hi Eric, are all your mates nuts ? :lol2:


More or less. :lol2: Sometimes we get carried away and do things we normally wouldn't. Doesn't make it right or wrong risk they felt safe taking. I forget what post I read it in but it goes with the Harley T shirt slogan. If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand. 

Free handling is dangerous and unnecessary! I just wanted to put that out there. Please do not try anything you see in the pictures. The out come will always be the same in the end. : victory:

I'm not sure who did the surgery on the Gaboon. I know from live rat test and trying to milk the snake from time to time it does not produce venom. I still treat it as if it we're hot due to the large fangs and the fact you never know.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Eric said:


> I forget what post I read it in but it goes with the Harley T shirt slogan. If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand.


is this the if you dont own a harley, dont wear the t shirt thing? 

[/quote]I'm not sure who did the surgery on the Gaboon. I know from live rat test and trying to milk the snake from time to time it does not produce venom. I still treat it as if it we're hot due to the large fangs and the fact you never know.[/quote]

is it posible for the venom to start reproducing? or is it compleetly removed in the surgery?

what does the surgery intail? not that i want to do it or think its right, just curious!


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## creed398 (Jul 28, 2007)

Free handleing hots is like playing rusian roulette, the bullets there, its just the question of when your going to die.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Dexter said:


> I won't :crazy:


You and me both mate!:lol2:


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