# Marauder Ants (Pheidologeton Diversus)



## KentuckyFrogler101

Hey all,

So i'm expecting a colony of these soon, as some people have asked me to post about these on another forum thought I would post on here aswell. The colony will consist of a few thousand ants and I have a 4x2x2 tank for them to go in which will be filled with about 10" of soil with some other stuff added and there will be a few artificial nests aswell. Also stocking up on alot of live food and bird seed, not sure just how much they will eat but I hope I have enough food for them! Here is a picture of the tank (Many thanks to Custom Aquaria), I will add more pictures as I get everything in there and then when the ants have settled.










Thanks for looking


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## kris74

That's a pretty epic tank mate.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Cheers, will look better when the ants are in there


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## kris74

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Cheers, will look better when the ants are in there


Without a doubt. Did they deliver this to you? I really want a Custom Aquaria but worry about delivery. I'd love a nice 36x18x18 for my H.gigas. 

When are you expecting to get the ants in?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

It was delivered, I live in Cornwall and I think Custom Aquaria is in Nottingham and didn't fancy going that far! The ants are also expected for next thursday now, the sender is having trouble getting them in the postage tube but that gives me more time to get the tank setup :2thumb:


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## andy007

Nice tank Harley: victory:


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## billsy

That tank is awesome! How much did it cost you?

: victory:


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## Lucky Eddie

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> The ants are also expected for next thursday now, the sender is having trouble getting them in the postage tube


What? Is he putting them in one at a time?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks, it cost around £200 excluding delivery and I hope he's not putting them in one by one haha


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Started to fill the tank up, here's a pic of it, 










I'm planning on putting some more substrate in to cover the top of the blocks, i'm hoping they'll use the blocks so I can see if the colony is growing and how fast it grows. Also going to have somthing covering the front of the tank as any light inside the nest will make them abandon it.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The ants arrived earlier but unfortunately I couldn't get pics as my camera wouldn't focus on the workers, I may try getting pics of a soldier or even the queen if I do see her before she moves nest as it may focus with them being a little bit bigger than the workers. 

For now i'll just write about what i'm seeing within the colony, firstly I placed the test tube the colony comes in next to the entrance of the artificial nest and within a minute ants were rushing out and there was one soldier who seemed to 'scout' the area. The soldier had travelled around about half of the tank and I believe it started two highways whilst walking around. After the first two highways were formed in the first half of the tank, another was formed along the front of the tank. I had put food and water around the tank before putting the ants in and one of the highways found some of the food and carried it all the way back to the test tube. Aswell as food they were carrying bits of dirt and bits of leaves, taking it back to the test tube and building it up around the entrance of it. Somthing strange I saw though was they took some of the livefood and buried it after taking it down, not sure what they'll do but will be interesting to see. There were also a 1 or 2 ants carrying brood around the tank and then taking it back to the test tube so not sure whether they were planning on moving nest or what. That's about it for now but i'll update soon, thanks for reading :2thumb:


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## vivalabam

Can't wait to see pictures! I'd love an ant colony, they are fascinating. :flrt:


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## kris74

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> The ants arrived earlier but unfortunately I couldn't get pics as my camera wouldn't focus on the workers, I may try getting pics of a soldier or even the queen if I do see her before she moves nest as it may focus with them being a little bit bigger than the workers.
> 
> For now i'll just write about what i'm seeing within the colony, firstly I placed the test tube the colony comes in next to the entrance of the artificial nest and within a minute ants were rushing out and there was one soldier who seemed to 'scout' the area. The soldier had travelled around about half of the tank and I believe it started two highways whilst walking around. After the first two highways were formed in the first half of the tank, another was formed along the front of the tank. I had put food and water around the tank before putting the ants in and one of the highways found some of the food and carried it all the way back to the test tube. Aswell as food they were carrying bits of dirt and bits of leaves, taking it back to the test tube and building it up around the entrance of it. Somthing strange I saw though was they took some of the livefood and buried it after taking it down, not sure what they'll do but will be interesting to see. There were also a 1 or 2 ants carrying brood around the tank and then taking it back to the test tube so not sure whether they were planning on moving nest or what. That's about it for now but i'll update soon, thanks for reading :2thumb:


Like wildlife on One without the audio! Sounds good mate, ants are awesome wee beasts. Would have been nice to capture the "scout" on video making his reccy of the area, fantastic!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

They are very fascinating and well worth it, I did try getting a pic of the scout but the camera didn't want to focus, even on super macro. I would wait for the queen and try to get a picture but looks as if they're staying in the test tube for now. In the last hour they've added about an inch of soil onto the entrance of the tube. I've been told this could be trying to make the tube more secure and to control humidity inside the nest. 

Already my favourites


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## kris74

Aye, do they not create a living system in their nests, like cultivating mould to eat and baby factories (as such) and working with the humidity? There was a braw documentary on them a while ago on a David Attenbrough program, fascinating stuff right enough. Hope these nest near the glass so you can update us with pics occasionally. Have you seen that other guys leaf cutter set up? Pretty nifty also..


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## ginna

oh wow i cant wait to see the photos


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I think those are the leaf cutter ants, the queen carries a fungus that grows onto the leaves they bring back to the nest and that's their food, really interesting stuff, also I have seen that thread, really nice setup he has got. I've been thinking of leaf cutters for a while but there are other species i'm interested in. Apparently these marauders are usually very hard to keep though, so i'm going to give it a while to see how it goes before I get any other ants. Just had another look at my ants aswell and it seems 2 of the highways have gone and the other one has gotten quieter, I think I mentioned in my last post about the two highways running through to a pile of leaves, well it looks as if they have started to dig under the leaves. Earlier I put in a mealworm and they took it under the leaves but it's starting to confuse me, as the workers only drink they don't eat, but they haven't taken the food back to the queen and soldiers. Maybe they're storing it but they've taken other food to different areas.....


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## Bigsteviet

Where do you buy ant colony's


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I bought these ants from here, Home - My Ant Shop Supplier of exotic tropical ants.


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## snowgoose

Sounds good  Would love to see some pictures if you can get them focussed somewhen 

I've always been a fan of the Odontomachus rixosus personally, but never really got round to owning any


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## henry415

Good luck with them! Some of my small tanks are from custom aquaria. They're greeaat!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks  Well it looks like they're moving to nest under the pile of leaves which is unfortunately no where near the artificial nest, but the highway is getting more active now and I just saw a worker carrying an egg down to the leaves. 

Also Snowgoose, the Odontomachus Rixosus are one of the other species i'm interested in. I think it's they're appearance that interests me, but there are others i'm interested in like Harpegnathos Venator and Saltator and Myrmecia species.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Henry  The tanks are very well made, couldn't be happier with mine


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I've got some pictures, quite alot going on so hoping to get a picture of the queen soon, maybe in the next half hour. Will upload all pictures after that :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Have just been watching the ants moving out of the test tube to the pile of leaves. It was amazing to watch, hundreds of ants carrying the brood to the new nest, I managed to get pics where you can make out the brood that is being carried but not sure the ants will be visible in the pics. Also I waited and waited for the queen to be escorted out with the soldiers, but couldn't wait any longer. I'm not even sure if the queen is still inside the test tube, but I think she is as there are workers carrying bits of dirt out of the tube, I think making the entrance bigger so she can get out. It's a shame they didn't choose the artificial nest but I guess there's quite a few advantages of nesting in the soil like the nest being made to the size they want/need. Anyway here are some pics,





































The third pic is of the test tube nest and the pile of leaves to the right is where they have moved to. The fourth pic is of the ants carrying some massive larvae, not sure what these will turn into but they should be atleast soldiers. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Another update, seems after moving nest last night they're moving again. Where they moved to last night there isn't much activity, however there's alot of activity about 1' away near the test tube. In the pic you can see below the test tube where the hole is they're digging. Unfortunately in the pic you can't see all the workers that are there, maybe time I got a better camera.


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## snowgoose

Looks good 

Do you have any pictures of the whole set-up?


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## henry415

Good luck with them!: victory:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks  Here's the whole setup,










I can't get a pic head on as there's not enough space to stand back, but the cardboard on the front was to block out light from the artificial nests, i've got 4 flower pot bases in there aswell for, sugar water, honey water, live food and bird seed. I think i'm just going to spread the bird seed around though and let the live food roam but the highways have stopped for now anyway so they're not foraging at the moment.


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## snowgoose

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Thanks  Here's the whole setup,
> 
> image
> 
> I can't get a pic head on as there's not enough space to stand back, but the cardboard on the front was to block out light from the artificial nests, i've got 4 flower pot bases in there aswell for, sugar water, honey water, live food and bird seed. I think i'm just going to spread the bird seed around though and let the live food roam but the highways have stopped for now anyway so they're not foraging at the moment.


Looks nice 

Why do you have sugar water and honey water, as opposed to just one or the other? Do they need both?

If you spread the bird seed around, you will probably find things like the grain seeds will start to sprout and grow in the substrate  It shouldn't cause any problems, but may end up looking like a grain field :lol2:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks, I don't think they need both but thought i'd put both in anyway  The seeds sprouting is somthing i'm going to keep an eye on, i've read about ants taking the seeds into the nest and then the seeds sprouting, then dying causing mould and killing the ants. But with the size of the soldiers I don't think any seeds will be left once they've settled


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## ginna

oh wow  you will have to keep posting pictures of this as it progresses  ants are so interesting


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I'll probably upload another picture or two tomorrow, just had a look at the new nest they're digging and they're digging three different entrances to it. I can't tell how deep the holes are dug at the moment but there are large piles of dirt next to them so they've done alot of work to it! Can't wait to see more soldiers, should be fairly soon.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Not much happening today, they are still digging and the highway between the newest nest and this dig site seems to be getting a little more active. Also I spotted a soldier in one of the holes and a couple workers carrying brood to these holes so i'm wondering if they'll move soon......


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just had a scare, the workers have been making the entrance to the test tube bigger for the last few days, I went to have a look not too long ago and they were pulling out a HUGE ant, must've been atleast 20 workers trying to pull it out. Due to not seeing the queen whilst moving nest and the size of this ant I thought this was a dead queen. Well i've been relieved by sending pictures of this ant to Peter from my ant shop and turns out it is a major. I was aware there are different types of soldiers but didn't realise the size difference between them is this big, i'll get a pic of this major next to a small soldier tomrrow with somthing to compare size too. I'll also get more pics of the dig site tomorrow. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The big one is a major, and the other a normal soldier,










They've also started digging somewhere else now and the workers seem to be exploring in the other half of the tank. Can't see much activity at all around the nest or where they were digging yesterday.


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## The T Lord

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> The big one is a major, and the other a normal soldier,
> 
> image
> 
> They've also started digging somewhere else now and the workers seem to be exploring in the other half of the tank. Can't see much activity at all around the nest or where they were digging yesterday.


WOW thats a huge difference, if you don't mind me asking, was it expensive (not including the 4x2x2) to get the ant colony and their necessities together??

:2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

That's why I thought that ant was the queen, didn't realise the size difference was that massive. But here's a list of everything else for the ants;

The actualy colony was near £200 (1 queen + 2000 workers + soldiers)

Oasis foam block (artificial nest) £20

Substrate £10 from local DIY store

The leaves and twigs were from out the garden and the bark I already had

Livefood doesn't really cost anything as i've got roaches

£5 red light for night time viewing and seeing inside the nest (the ants can't see red so no disturbance)

I didn't have to get an idividual heat source for them as the ambient temps are right for them out my shed

That's all I can think of and just to add about their activity at the moment, the nest they have been digging for the last few days looks only about a couple inches deep, but I was curious to see if it was any deeper so peeled the cardboard back and there are tunnels going half way down the front of the tank, also spotted a soldier helping move the bigger bits of soil out of the tunnels.


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## The T Lord

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> That's why I thought that ant was the queen, didn't realise the size difference was that massive. But here's a list of everything else for the ants;
> 
> The actualy colony was near £200 (1 queen + 2000 workers + soldiers)
> 
> Oasis foam block (artificial nest) £20
> 
> Substrate £10 from local DIY store
> 
> The leaves and twigs were from out the garden and the bark I already had
> 
> Livefood doesn't really cost anything as i've got roaches
> 
> £5 red light for night time viewing and seeing inside the nest (the ants can't see red so no disturbance)
> 
> I didn't have to get an idividual heat source for them as the ambient temps are right for them out my shed
> 
> That's all I can think of and just to add about their activity at the moment, the nest they have been digging for the last few days looks only about a couple inches deep, but I was curious to see if it was any deeper so peeled the cardboard back and there are tunnels going half way down the front of the tank, also spotted a soldier helping move the bigger bits of soil out of the tunnels.


WOW i didn't expect them to be so expensive, but their are a lot of ants there! Is there a more... budget species? they sound really interesting to keep : victory:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The reason this species is this expensive is because there are difficulties keeping them. Whilst I was researching them prior to getting them I found nearly in all cases the worker population collapses within the first month. This is my first colony and I was advised not to get them as they will die, but i've been told with my setup I can be successful, the next three weeks are very important for my colony as it needs to stabilize.

There are cheaper ants you can get, from where I ordered my ants they sell Camponotus Nicobarensis (Suger Ants) and they range from £50 - £150 depending on the size colony you get. From what i've read they're a good tropical species to start with. If you want any links to shops or anymore questions feel free to ask


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## andy007

Well done so far Harley:2thumb: Knowing how well you care for all your animals I'm sure if anyone can make this colony work you can. For such a young person your devotion has to be admired: victory:




KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Livefood doesn't really cost anything as i've got roaches


And you pinch them from me lol


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Andy  and thanks for all the livefood aswell  Just noticed some pale looking workers so I think they're starting to hatch. Also I expect the chambers within the nest to be larger as the piles of soil outside the nest have more than doubled than this morning! Also got your frogs ready to bring in tomorrow


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## andy007

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Thanks Andy  and thanks for all the livefood aswell  Just noticed some pale looking workers so I think they're starting to hatch. Also I expect the chambers within the nest to be larger as the piles of soil outside the nest have more than doubled than this morning! Also got your frogs ready to bring in tomorrow


Sounds good so far mate:2thumb: Your Tokay was busy eating crickets when I left earlier


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Sounds good Andy :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just a little update, the new workers are now hatching, I have seen a couple of them wondering near the entrance of the nest. Also they have started to take food again, they just had five small crickets. No doubt could've taken more but i'll do that tomorrow. Happy with how they're doing so far, now to see if the population manages to stablize sucessfully.......


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Another update, the colony is taking alot of food, i've found they don't seem to like mealworms, I just find them buried outside the nest where as roaches and crickets are taken in straight away. Also had a peek behind the cardboard and I could see somthing big about 8" down in the soil. I couldn't see it that well but due to the size it looks like a hatching major, i'm hoping it is as the majors act as food stores, and more food means more eggs. The colony overall at the moment seems really healthy, a sign of this is the extremely aggressive feeding response. For the small roaches about 200 workers aswell as smaller soldiers swarm within minutes. I still have not seen the queen, I was hoping she'd be in one of the chambers dug at the front but she isn't. When the colony grows large they'll possibly take the artificial nest though so the queen may be visible in a few months time.

Thanks for reading


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colony seems to be getting stronger, for the first time I saw a soldier foraging with the workers. It was a small soldier but i'm wondering if it's newly hatched, they're covering alot more space whilst foraging and I also saw a worker taking interest in the bird seed. Looking into the nest a couple of days ago there were large larvaes being cared for by the workers, being taken to the food etc. Still seems to be going well at the moment, they seem established and I think the colony will grow.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I've been told the larvaes i've seen that were bigger than the workers are most likely major larvaes. There were a good 5 or 6 of them atleast (I only got a glimpse of part of a chamber where they were kept) so i'm happy that they're atleast soldiers, good to see the colony progressing as it is. They're still taking alot of food, but i've realised the food they leave is because it's too big. I've seen with the big foods they cut them up smaller to get them into the nest. Also again I believe the colony is growing more, the foraging area seems to be getting more active now, there are always a good number of ants here and they take the big foods here before cutting them up to get them to the nest. I still don't know if they have a set rubbish pile though, I found a pile the other day but they haven't dumped anything there since. I'll update again soon :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Whilst feeding tonight a large-ish soldier came out to help with the food, happy I seen the soldier as I know they're getting enough food inside the nest. I could tell this as the soldiers gastor was extended, the workers gastors are extended aswell. I feel confident the colony can go atleast another week, will update soon.


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## bothrops

Awesome species and a great looking set-up. Loving the thread - will stay subscribed!






The T Lord said:


> WOW i didn't expect them to be so expensive, but their are a lot of ants there! Is there a more... budget species? they sound really interesting to keep : victory:


For a cheaper start with ants, try some of the European species (easier to keep too).

This is THE place to go for them (link is the the Central European species, but explore the site - its awesome!)

ANTSTORE - Ameisenshop - Ameisen - Ameisen aus Mitteleuropa


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks  

Also you could attempt to catch a new queen just after the nuptial flight, it would probably be easiest with Lasius Niger as they're so common.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just put some larger food in for the ants a moment ago and the swarm was the biggest I have seen it before. There was atleast one soldier I could see amongst the swarm, there were probably more but there were so many workers I couldn't see. They were quick to make the nest entrance larger for the food and very quick to get the food back to the nest. I've also thought about the larvaes I seen about a week ago and figured they may hatch into soldiers in about another week. This thursday coming will be three weeks with the colony, which is how long most people have been able to keep this species. If I get past that stage the new generation of workers would've hatched and the worker population will stabilize. Fingers crossed......


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Attempted to get a couple pictures and here they are,



















There is one soldier in both pics, I swear it's the same soldier I see every feed which is strange, I would think more than one would come to help with food unless there weren't many small soldiers when I got them.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The ants decided to carry the food to the foraging area today to cut it up smaller. I'm not sure why but they've left most of the food I offered them earlier, but have taken all of the food i've given them now. First I offered them blue bottles which yesterday they took five of them and they left two of three of them from earlier. So instead I offered them three small crickets tonight and they took all three of them. It's strange as sometimes they leave the crickets aswell but will take a different type of food instead when they do.

Also I decided to clean up the foraging area, as said in an earlier post there are mites but there is also somthing else which i'm unsure as to what it is. It looks like some kind of larvae, roughly 4mm long, it's white but its head is jet black. Does anybody have any idea as to what it could be? I have noticed little black flies flying around in the tank, could this be larvaes of them?

Any advice appreciated.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I came to the conclusion that these larvaes are of the little flies, as there are more of them appearing. They don't seem to be doing any harm to the ants but i'm going to make sure I clean the foraging area a little more often. Also I altered the foraging area a little bit last night so I could place the honey water better, they are now taking more interest in the honey water and they're also digging in the foraging area. I think this may just be to dig their paths underneath the leaves as there are piles of soil on top of the leaves. 

I'm also thinking that they may be expanding the nest, about 3" away from the usual nest entrance is a leaf that i've started noticing workers coming from underneath with bits of soil showing they are atleast digging there. Aswell as this, the foraging has become more active in the last few days. There are always workers there doing somthing, digging, cutting up the left over food to take back to the nest etc.

I'm excited by both, higher activity in the foraging area and the thought that the nest may be expanding. I believe both of these things suggest there has been growth within the colony. As said in one of my earlier posts, the first three weeks are the most important as the older generation of workers would be dying off so the newer generation of workers had to hatch to stabilize the colony successfully. I think alot of the new workers have already hatched due to all this activity and the decrease in dead workers being carried off. 

Thanks for reading :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Another update, the ants have had 8 small crickets today. They've also created another pathway down to the foraging area, it's only a couple inches from the old pathway but they've ditched the old one for some reason. Yesterday they were also piling soil into the honey water, I was told this is so it absorbs some of the honey water and then they carry the soil back to the nest for the other ants to drink from. Also seen some strange things happen within the colony, a worker seemed to be attacking another worker and a worker latching onto a soldier. Not sure why this is happening but i've also been told this does occasionaly happen. They're also still digging in the foraging area everyday and I see them carry soil out of the nest too.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well as my new thread says the mites have grown in numbers. At the moment there isn't really much I can do about it but somthing needs to be done as I saw a soldier with mites on it's back that are now most likely inside the actual nest. I believe the mites wont ever be eradicated completely from the setup but large numbers will cause problems. The other problem is, may just be a coincidence, but it appears the ants are actually feeding the mites. I see them carry leftovers and they drop the leftovers on the mites. Other than that everything else seems fine and I also found a rubbish pile in amongst some leaves.

If anyone has any advice it will be appreciated!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well pretty much nothing has happened today which is unusual, i'm wondering now it's getting close to four weeks maybe the larvae are recieving more care prior to hatching. I can't think of any other reason why they've been so quiet today, i'll update again tomorrow......


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## andy007

Doing really well Harly:2thumb: 

Does your camera have a macro function?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Andy, the camera does but I tried super macro too and that wont even get a decent picture.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well today the ants have been a bit more active, they took three roaches earlier and have now been offered a larger roach. They also took the mites food I put in earlier  But from the looks of it most of the mites have gone now anyway, I removed the 'bait' this morning which I left in over night and there were alot of mites feasting on each piece of the food. I still see some mites on the top of the soil but not many, i've just got to make sure with the 'bait' that it's too big for the ants to carry away. 

I feel much more comfortable now the number of mites have gone down and I look forward to the next 1-2 weeks. In this amount of time, maybe even sooner more ants of most castes should be hatching, it'll also be interesting to see if the ants become more active once the numbers (hopefully) increase.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Another update with a pic for once, I managed to get a better pic than last time and you can actually make out the ants. I've also been told the colony should be past the hard part (Stabilising population) so that's good news! 

In this pic are a group of workers, must've been more than fifty at one point. They're taking a small roach back to the nest and the hole in the pic is the nest entrance, you can also see some workers coming out of the entrance and a soldier to the left of the roach.










:2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

A pic of a soldier, I took her out of the setup to check the mites that are on her gaster. I've been told by another Diversus keeper to check if they were normal mites that feed off of leftovers or parasitic mites. I'm leaning more towards parsitic as they weren't moving and seemed to just be latched onto one area. I'm really hoping they're not parasitic mites as this could mean the colony dying out and i've been told that I may need to move the ants into another setup but i'm looking at that as a last resort as this can put the colony under alot of stress.

Anyway here's the pic......


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I hate to sound negative but I don't know how much longer my colony will last. I just noticed a soldier stumbling around looking strange, colour looked strange too, took it out and it's absolutely plastered in parasitic mites! Literally every soft part of its body has a mite latched on! I've never dealt with these before and i'm awaiting a reply from defenders about Hypoaspis, however with how this soldier is I hate to think if the queen is the same! Even if Hypoaspis are ok to use I think it may be too late, I had no idea, soldiers were out yesterday foraging and i'm sure I would've noticed if one of them was as bad as this! Apparently getting the colony settled in was the hardest part...... Again any advice about parasitic mites will be much appreciated! They are brownish-blackish and bulbous..... In an earlier post I did mention a black bulbous tick kind of looking thing jumping around and now I guess I know what it is!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well with how this soldier is looking now, if the queen is infected like this aswell she may survive a couple days at the max. I will be suprised if this soldier is still alive tomorrow morning, it was pretty much dead when I checked it a minute ago, but I gave it some honey water and it started drinking and livened up a little. It has got quite a few of the mites off of itself but still pretty much covered in them. From what's happening now though it looks as if this is the end of the colony which is a massive shame. I'll post what happens.....


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## andy007

Have messaged you Harley, but not much help with ants I'm afraid


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Replied, no I can't find much info anywhere unfortunately :/ I just noticed the nest has grown aswell, about 6-8" away from the current entrance. Hopefully I can get somthing sorted but I decided to pick a random worker out and that was covered too, it walked back into the nest. I was told I could pick the infested ants out but I think there is no point, I may aswell just pick the whole colony out


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## ojo

The Mites could have been carried in with the soil and due to the humidty increase and decaying food their numbers will only increase (no matter how many times you put in 'bait')

Would any kind of custodian work? Woodlice, isopods, sprintails etc..


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well there's two types of mites in there now, the foraging ones which are fine but the other type are the ones latched onto the ants. I believe they're two different species as the mites eating the leftovers are white but the ones feeding off of the ants are jet black and they can alsp jump very well when not on an ant. I was told that in the wild these mites are common within colonies, being in the wild the ants can get rid of the infested bodies far from the nest but then obviously being in a tank they can't do that. Hopefully I will be able to talk to the seller tomorrow about this and get an answer on what to do. I'll update tomorrow, and if I can't contact him i'll take a chance with Hypoaspis if I can get some soon enough. I'm hoping if it does come to that, that the Hypoaspis will not harm the brood, thinking more about that the workers take alot of care of the larvae cleaning them all the time so i'm not sure what would happen.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Still no info on a definate remedy yet, I was advised to try getting lemon juice on the mites but that's had no effect. My soldier is also dead and I found a couple workers heavily infested. I'm in contact with a shop that sells predatory mites and I should get a call from them in a couple hours as they're going to try find some info on this. I was advised to dig the queen out but i'm going to take a chance and hope she is not so heavily infested, make sure they get alot of food so the ants can survive for longer and hopefully i'll have a remedy later. If not, if this shop can post today to arrive tomorrow I will order Hypoaspis Miles and try them. I suppose a good sign is, I haven't seen an infested dead body carried out of the nest yet and the ants are taking food as normal.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I now have some A. Cucumeris on the way. They're similar to Hypoaspis Miles I believe. They'll be here tomorrow and should have some effect, whether it be good or bad. When talking about Hypoaspis Miles though I was getting put off as I wondered if they would eat the ants eggs, but thinking about it the queen lays almost 24/7 so I don't think it's worth worrying about if the Cucumeris find their way to the eggs. I had another look earlier once the workers came out to collect the food and it looked as though all of them had mites on them so it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow, I will update.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The A. Cucumeris arrived earlier and I put them straight in the setup. They've started to release from the sachets, I put a sachet near the nest entrance and one near the foraging area. The ants are still acting normal, foraging and digging as usual but there definately seem to be less workers foraging. I've lost three workers and one soldier (that i've seen) so far too the parasitic mites. I don't believe the Cucumeris will do any damage to the ants, but I don't know how long it will take for them to make a significant difference by hunting the parasitic mites.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Another update, the colony seems alot healthier today! Yesterday when I put food in for the ants only about twenty odd workers came out to collect it but today there was a hundred+ workers aswell as some soldiers! The other good thing is looking at them, none are heavily infested with parasitic mites like yesterday and the day before! Neither did I see any ants trying to rub any mites off of their bodies. I hope there has actually been a decrease in the parasitic mites because it seems there has been. Also not sure if the A. Cucumeris have had a part in this or if it's just a coincidence......


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## GRB

nvm I missed an important response earlier, lol


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The ants still look good today, yesterday they took about ten small roaches and some small crickets so they still have their appetite!

I was getting confused with the mites though, the A. Cucumeris I mean. In my earlier post when I said they were releasing from the sachets, the ones I thought were releasing from the sachets were like the ones I wrote about in an earlier post, bulbous, jet black and good at jumping but I didn't think anything of it. Looking at the ants last night I saw hundreds of orange speckles and it turns out these are actually the A. Cucumeris mites and the ones I thought were coming out of the sachet are the ones I wrote about a couple weeks ago. Does anyone have any idea what they could be? I would look it up myself but I don't know much about mites so don't know where to start.

I would put them down as parasitic mites but these mites are wondering around instead of latched onto somthing. I also see different sizes, varying from 0.5mm-2mm and if these were the parasitic ones surely the smaller ones would be latched onto the ants instead of wondering? The big ones definitely aren't latched onto anything because there atleast half the size of the workers and I would notice if they were latched on due to the size, but maybe the parasitic mites are the smaller ones of these, I have no idea.

If anyone knows anything about these I would appreciate any info on them! 

Thanks again for reading.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Sorry too post again so soon but I've got a little test going now, I found two heavily infested workers during feeding tonight, I have put them in a small tub with alot of the Amblyseius Cucumeris and I'm really interested in whether anything would have happened by tomorrow. 

I've also caught one of these 'mystery mites' so I can get a closer look, I've already seen that it has two body segments, head and abdomen if that can narrow it down a bit further. I'm also starting to question whether it is actually a mite......


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## GRB

Can you get a photo? I'd like to see the legs and segments. To me, anything that looks like it has a seperate head is not going to be a mite.

Even something like this would be useful:


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## Ron Magpie

I'll definitely be following this thread- I've just read it from the beginning- fascinating. Hope your 'police mites' do the job!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha thanks Ron!

I tried to get a photo GRB, but my camera couldn't focus  The best I can describe it though is that it's got a head and abdomen, grey-blue colour like an aphid (I don't think it is an aphid though), its head is the same width as the start of its abdomen and then the middle of its abdomen goes wider and then the end of the abdomen goes to a point if that makes sense. It's also 2mm in length and probably the most stand out thing is how well it can jump. I understand a photo would be alot more useful but I just can't get one. It's probably something common from outside that has come off of the leaves I put in. I did nuke them first in the microwave but I have seen other little bugs in the setup.

Also about the A. Cucumeris in with the workers, the workers have died which was expected but it doesn't seem the predatory mites have done anything. I think I'm going too need something more effective, does anybody know if Hypoaspis Miles would do more than the Amblyseius Cucumeris?


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## GRB

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Haha thanks Ron!
> 
> I tried to get a photo GRB, but my camera couldn't focus  The best I can describe it though is that it's got a head and abdomen, grey-blue colour like an aphid (I don't think it is an aphid though), its head is the same width as the start of its abdomen and then the middle of its abdomen goes wider and then the end of the abdomen goes to a point if that makes sense. It's also 2mm in length and probably the most stand out thing is how well it can jump. I understand a photo would be alot more useful but I just can't get one. It's probably something common from outside that has come off of the leaves I put in. I did nuke them first in the microwave but I have seen other little bugs in the setup.
> 
> Also about the A. Cucumeris in with the workers, the workers have died which was expected but it doesn't seem the predatory mites have done anything. I think I'm going too need something more effective, does anybody know if Hypoaspis Miles would do more than the Amblyseius Cucumeris?


What you are describing sound like springtails. They are harmless and beneficial to vivarium set ups as they clean detritis and mould and such. 

As for the mites, again, I think these are probably not damaging. Most mites the hobbyist will see are not parasitic unless they specifically came in with the imported animals. Parasites are often specific; if they are not then they still tend to focus on organisms that naturally occur with them in a small geographic range. 

The only parasitic mites I can think of in the UK are Trombiidae mites which are bright right and get rather large (they are velvet mites; about 3mm). Small black seed shaped mites are oribatid mites; these eat fungi and rotting materials and are harmless. The white ones people often report are also Oribatids iirc and again, swarming on an organism is phoresy (travelling) not a sign of parasitism. They climb onto organisms that are either moving to sources of food or are indeed covered in particles they can eat. 

For example, this is an oribatid mite:










This is a trombiid mite:










The Parasitoidea mites tend to look like this:









I've seen all these mites (except Trombids) in vivaria - even the parasitid ones have never directly attacked any of my arthropods (they tend to eat other species of mites or springtails). 

None of these can jump. 

Springtails: 

gardenLife: Springtails


From what you are saying, these blooms of mites are a symptom of husbandry issues. You only get these if there is a surplus of food in the enclosure and/or high humidity. 

What is killing the ants is either stale air from humidity issues or that the enclosure is too dirty. From what I know of ants they are fastidiously clean organisms and a build up of detritus is often fatal to colonies. Mites would swarm over this detritus to consume it - thus they are a symptom but not the cause. 

Just to finish, a healthy ecosystem will usually always have a healthy population of mites, so it is a shame that hobbyists often revile them when in reality the vast majority are of great benefit in soil cycling and nutirent break down, etc.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks very much for your reply! I really appreciate it but I may not have made it clear, there are two types of mites within my setup, the foraging mites which I am fine with as you stated, they can be beneficial, but then there's the other type. 

The other type I'm 100% are parasitic, lots of them latch onto individuals and get off once the host is dead. The deaths I am seeing within my colony are from heavily infested individuals, so far since I discovered these parasites, I can confirm 5 ants have been killed by them. I don't believe there are husbandry issues as said the ants that end up dying are the heavily infested ones. All the other ants act normal, cleaning the nest, digging, foraging etc.

Also am I right in understanding these parasites within my colony, would've come from Asia where the ants came from? The person I bought them off lives in Thailand and brings the colonies over to the UK to sell, I believe he keeps these colonies on his farm in Thailand. Would the parasites perhaps have gone dormant/hibernated? As the appearance of them has been so sudden, I've had the colony for 32 days and they only appeared in the last week. 

Do you know if Hypoaspis Miles would be a good control measure for these parasites?

Thanks again


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## GRB

If they jump then they are no mite I have any idea about....although I've never heard of mites being able to jump. 

If you can see a distinct head region then I don't tink they will be mites. 

I think any sort of photo would be useful at this stage. Try not to get too close - it's better to get a good steady image from 10-15cm away and make sure it is in focus. I can zoom in if I need to to try to see what it is. Overall body shape and form is more useful than an ultra close up blur. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Sorry but I can't get a pic at all, it just shows a black blur  I tried it form different distances but still nothing. Also I forgot too add to my earlier post, that I didn't count this 'mystery' bug as one of the two species of mites I have seen. I'm certain this mystery big is different to these parasites. These parasites are different colour and different size and obviously the most notable thing, they're feeding on the actual ants.

The organisms I know of living in my setup at the moment are; Amblyseius Cucumeris (Predatory mites), the ants, the foraging mites, this 'mystery' bug and the parasites which are the problem. They are 100% parasitic, living off of my ants but I can't find anything on how to get rid of these parasites.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

An update on the mites, the population seems to have decreased and the ants are doing well. I seen them foraging for seeds earlier, they must be very active at night as all of the seeds I put in have gone, I put more in and they're all getting carried back to the nest already.

I'm still considering Hypoaspis to try and kill the parasitic mites off, but I'm not sure as the colony seems ok at the moment.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just a quick update of my earlier post, I've ordered some Hypoaspis as I found some more infested ants during feeding time, not many infested ants but I'd rather find a way to kill the mites off before I possibly lose the queen. Still no idea what condition the queen is in but hopefully when I get the Hypoaspis they'll get taken into the nest, even if they consume some of the ants eggs there should be masses of eggs in the chambers so it should have no significant effect.

Also the seeds I replaced earlier have all already been taken back to the nest, I've only seen them take a couple seeds max in the 5 weeks I've had them until tonight, they must've had well over a hundred seeds tonight and are already taking a third lot!


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## applepye

Just posting so i can follow this thread, i have always been amazed by these and wish you all the luck in this venture.: victory:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks very much


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I spotted an ant with parasitic mites on its body earlier, excited to see whether the Hypoaspis will have much of an impact. The ants are still taking food and still showing interest in seeds. It seems they took too many though as there are lots of seeds just left outside of the nest and they've started too grow now aswell.  

I was told that the amount of seeds being taken back to the nest could be a sign of newly born majors and that the majors have too mill the seeds for the queen too eat. Hopefully the colony moves into the artificial nest sometime, would love too see how many of each caste my colony actaully consists of...


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The seed aftermath....


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Well the mite problem seems to be getting worse, all the Hypoaspis have done is kill all the foraging mites off  whilst more ants are infested. Is there anyone that could possibly I.D. the parasites that I could post some to? I have some in an air tight tub at the moment if anyone wanted to try and I.D. them...


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I haven't been on in a while but the ants still aren't looking good, infact the numbers of my colony look like they've gone down alot, not that I'm suprised by that. I'm in contact with the seller at the moment and awaiting a reply about the situation. I'm 100% sure the mites have not come from my end, also done little 'experiments' by leaving different live foods (crickets, locusts, fruit flies etc.) in the setup to see if the mites would feed off of them and after 2 weeks all the live foods are still free of mites so I know they're ant specific and this is my only ant colony...


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I haven't updated this in a while, but this is a more positive update. About a week ago a new generation of workers hatched out, this has helped lower the parasite population and fingers crossed it keeps going that way. I noticed earlier around the entrance of the nest the soil looked a bit loose, as if they had been digging and this is what I found when I lifted up the card board on the front of the tank,










Terrible pic quality I know  But as you can see in the pic there is a mass of brood, the mass of brood is about the size of a grape, probably bigger and as said earlier the loose soil around the entrance was from digging a huge chamber for all this brood. The chamber is about 3"-4" tall and about an inch wide, I hadn't looked behind the board for over a month as I wasn't seeing much but was excited to find this. 

Thanks for reading


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just another quick update, I saw the queen a couple days ago and she looked to have less mites on her, maybe they're starting to die of old age? The colony also seems alot more active and more voracious, I would think that's because of the growth of the colony since the newest workers hatched out.

I've also been told the occurence of the parasites shows the colony is not being kept right and that my setup is not a 'suitable environment'. Just to note I don't believe that, from what I had found out this species is very sensitive to the conditions and I'm sure they wouldn't have lasted this long if they were stressed from wrong conditions.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

As stated in an earlier post, I am in contact with the seller of these ants about the mite situation and the seller blamed me for the infestation. Here are some quotes from an email I recieved from the seller a few days ago;

"It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress - which does seem to point to your care and attention not being very good."


"Who are these lots of people who have told you about these geographically specific mites? - People on the forum sites that are generally quite young and not very scientifically qualified! Have you heard of 'flaming' - where people say things to try and cause problems - a lot goes on especially with other traders masquerading as forum members who try and discredit the competition."

"I have no knowledge of the temperature and humidity or type of food with regards your colony"

I did confirm the conditions of my setup with the seller prior to getting the ants which he said were fine and he even suggested some of the foods I feed the colony.

"all I know is that it was fit and healthy when I sent it and in a period of three months you managed to reduce it to a sickly mite infested wreck! Well done - I will put this down as being credit to your vast experience of keeping ants! If I was you I would try something like Lasius niger - you may be able to keep those - at least for a few months anyway!"

The moment I contacted him about the mites he pinned the blame on me, even ignored my emails at one point, he couldn't offer any advice at all for this problem. When I first contacted him about purchasing the colony he seemed very helpful and then the mite problem arose...


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## geckofan123

Im sorry i cant be of any help here, the only experience ive had of keeping ants is when i was in junior school and i caught some in a matchbox which i kept in my pocket, needless to say they escaped pretty quick! I just wanted to wish you luck, hope its not too late :/. That seller seems like a bit of a d**k to me, i wouldnt mind so much, but he/she was beeing needlessly condesending and sarcastic. Not great customer service!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks for the reply  Once I mentioned the mites to him he did look for excuses, like blaming me for the conditions even though some of my care information came from him  For me this is the end of that matter anyway, I just didn't expect a response from him like that. 

The actual ants though seem good, they're digging alot and looking in the brood chamber there are lots of large larvaes so I expect some new majors and soldiers soon. It should be roughly a couple of weeks now until another generation of workers hatch out aswell which I look forward too. The other thing I'm still waiting to see is if the parasites die off of the queen. I'll update again soon.


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## Spiderstock

The important thing is that you still have some form of a colony left. They're producing young which is signs of growth. So maybe all will be ok. At least the colony lives.....


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## Kelfezond

Best of luck to you!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks for the replies, I think it's just a matter of waiting for the rest of these mites to die off of the soldiers and queen now. I will check to see if any of my Hypos are still alive and if not I may order some next week to go through the next generation.


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## GRB

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> As stated in an earlier post, I am in contact with the seller of these ants about the mite situation and the seller blamed me for the infestation. Here are some quotes from an email I recieved from the seller a few days ago;
> 
> "It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress - which does seem to point to your care and attention not being very good."
> 
> This is actually true. Mites are a symptom of poor husbandry conditions.
> 
> 
> "Who are these lots of people who have told you about these geographically specific mites? - People on the forum sites that are generally quite young and not very scientifically qualified! Have you heard of 'flaming' - where people say things to try and cause problems - a lot goes on especially with other traders masquerading as forum members who try and discredit the competition."
> 
> I don't know which posts this refers to, but I did try to tell you they were probably harmless mites - to try to be specific over species and geographic location from a photograph is certainly beyond my abilities and I'd guess there are few who could be so certain from the photos on this thread.
> 
> "I have no knowledge of the temperature and humidity or type of food with regards your colony"
> 
> I did confirm the conditions of my setup with the seller prior to getting the ants which he said were fine and he even suggested some of the foods I feed the colony.
> 
> "all I know is that it was fit and healthy when I sent it and in a period of three months you managed to reduce it to a sickly mite infested wreck! Well done - I will put this down as being credit to your vast experience of keeping ants! If I was you I would try something like Lasius niger - you may be able to keep those - at least for a few months anyway!"
> 
> You did say you were told this species was a difficult one to keep - I don't think it is fair for anyone to try to place blame on anyone. If they are difficult to keep then it is entirely possible they were healthy before shipping and the stress of such an event may have opened up the possibility for infection.
> 
> The moment I contacted him about the mites he pinned the blame on me, even ignored my emails at one point, he couldn't offer any advice at all for this problem. When I first contacted him about purchasing the colony he seemed very helpful and then the mite problem arose...


Well, technically after the sale he's not obliged to keep offering advice for free. Live cultures are a tricky issue since where do you realistically draw the line at seller responsibility? If the culture was healthy when it arrived, and has since declined, it is difficult to pin blame on anyone - it could well be current conditions or an underlying issue that has flared up during transit. Again, the seller may have been unaware if the infestation was 'dormant'. 

Plus, without seeing your original emails it is difficult to judge context. Whilst the replies might seem sarcastic, you have to see things from the view of the seller - he has kept these cultures healthy enough before, sells one and is suddenly accused of not culturing them properly by a relative new keeper, who knew these were a difficult species to culture. Not defending his statements, but I can see why he might be defensive. 

I don't think I can offer any more advice without seeing better pictures of the mites. In my experience, mites are a symptom of incorrect husbandry conditions for the organism. You either have to go 'sterile' and keep the enclosure ultra hygenic, or 'natural' and introduce a functioning mini ecosystem to keep them in check. I still have my doubts that the mites are anything other than generalist detritivores, that are simply targeting weakened ants arising from environmental conditions.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks for the reply, I can understand why the seller would get defensive but he would ignore certain parts of my messages and I think the way he replied in some of the emails wasn't neccesary.

I understand that stress can make the ants susceptible to an infestation like this but before I got them he told me that they were under so much stress in transit they were aborting some brood (This was from Asia to the UK) and he also had trouble getting them into the postal tube. I don't know why he denied telling me my conditions I had were right but I've stopped contact with him now anyway.

About the mites though, I would like to find out more about them, I'll try catch a soldier later and try to get a pic again. My workers look clear of the parasites now but the soldiers and queen still have them.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The next set of workers are close to hatching, most of the pupaes are still white but some are darkening and so over night I think more will start to darken. Over the last couple days there have also been more soldiers pupating and alot more of the larvaes are darkening, turning into pupaes. I think the number of parasites will reduce again over the next month or two, the Hypoaspis are still alive in the setup so they must be living off of something.


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## josh9961

Fingers crossed that your parasite problem does continue to diminish!
If you manage to get your colony back on track then maybe people will stop questioning your husbandry :lol2:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha thanks! I think even if the parasites stay as they are now it's managable for the ants, but I think the number of them will decrease anyway


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## rob158

If you want to send me some specimens I can take a few photo's of them under the microscope for you.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I've pm'd you Rob.

Over the last few days alot of larvaes have started pupating into soldiers and over the last 24 hours two majors have started to pupate with another major larvae looking close to turning into a pupae soon. Some of the worker pupaes have now hatched and more look close to hatching.


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## Veyron

Just read the whole thread for the first time.....EPIC! Best thread I've ever read.

Hope you can get everything sorted and under control.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks very much  Amazing to see all the brood develop, I should be getting a better camera soon so I will be adding pics to this sometime.


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## henry415

Just a suggestion: It might be a good idea to lower the humidity for a week or ten days just to see if that has an effect on the mites. They do dessicate in drier conditions. At least it might help the problem. Just a thought.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Hey Henry, thanks for the suggestion, I was thinking about this a while ago when the mite problem was very bad but due to this species of ant being very sensitive to the conditions I'd be afraid to drop the humidity incase it was fatal to the ants. The infestation seems well under control now though, however the queen is still covered in them, but she still looks healthy otherwise. Thanks for the reply!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I haven't updated this in a while but for anyone still following I have an update. During the last few weeks alot of new workers have been hatching out, workers were hatching every day but not as many have been hatching in the last week. I've also got atleast five new majors now with more major pupaes hatching very soon, also alot of smaller soldiers have been hatching out and there are now more than there were around a month ago. The colony has significantly grown in the last few weeks. The mites have almost been killed off aswell, the queen still has some on her but they're no doubt dying off and I cannot see any on the workers or soldiers now. 
Some pictures of the nest and brood;




























Thanks for reading.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

A newly hatched major, it's head is in the middle of the pic, couldn't get the rest of it in the pic but it's about 2cm and the nest is around 1' deep now.


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## kris74

It's looking now Mr. Froggler. Glad to see the mite infestation was controlled as well. This has been the most interesting thread on here in some time. Would you consider the colony to now be "stable" or is there still work needed?


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## kris74

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> A newly hatched major, it's head is in the middle of the pic, *couldn't get the rest of it in the pic but it's about 2cm* and the nest is around 1' deep now.
> 
> image


If you set the aperture higher on your camera, say to 8 or 9 then you might get more of the body in focus. I could see it was set a f3.5. Are you able to noodle with the settings on that camera or not? It might be worth investing in a cheap DSLR if you can't, it would improve things so much more


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Kris! The colony is stable, the numbers have significantly increased since I got the colony, when I first got the colony there were only a couple soldiers that would come out to forage but last night 18 soldiers came out of the nest to forage. There's also a lot more brood than there used to be so the queens obviously healthy and with all the majors there are now storing a lot of food I'd think the colony will grow even quicker.

Also I'll try play around with the camera again soon but I'll probably end up getting a new one soon.

Cheers


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## Veyron

Always keep this updated...I love it. Almost feel as though it's *my *colony, having followed all the ups and downs !! :no1:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha thanks!


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## Ron Magpie

Definitely one of the more fascinating ongoing threads! :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Ron


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## stucammo

wow iv just read this for begining to end, what a fasanating read!!!!!

i'm glad you got it stablised in the end, hope they keep going strong :no1:


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## Lerg

I've gone through this thread from start to finish, I always knew ants were awesome but I didn't think the were this spectacular!!:flrt:

How long will this colony thrive for?? It's great to see, and I for one am greatful you've taken your time out to share this experience with us so thanks for that!! Glad your mite problem is well and truely under control now as the little buggers can be a nightmare. Please keep us updated top bannana in my book :no1:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks stucammo and Lerg for the kind words! I really appreciate all the replies on this thread 

I will update this again soon, all that's happening at the moment is a lot of digging and some more ants hatching. I'll try get a pic of the nest later as it's bigger now. :2thumb:

Edit: Sorry forgot to answer you're question about the colony, Lerg. I'm not really sure about how long the colony will last for, I don't know the lifespan of a queen but I would imagine a colony could thrive for a long time as this species is known to have multiple queens within a single colony.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just a few pics of some of the ants whilst they were out foraging today.


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## Lerg

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> I will update this again soon, all that's happening at the moment is a lot of digging and some more ants hatching. I'll try get a pic of the nest later as it's bigger now. :2thumb:
> 
> Sorry forgot to answer you're question about the colony, Lerg. I'm not really sure about how long the colony will last for, I don't know the lifespan of a queen but I would imagine a colony could thrive for a long time as this species is known to have *multiple queens* within a single colony.


Thats amazing so realistically it's a self sustaining colony where when one queen dies another takes over, pretty clever really. I didn't know whether ants did this or whether new queens were encouraged to birth a new colony to spread the species (probaby sounds stupid :lol2:but hey-ho). Very interesting to follow so i'll keep popping in :2thumb:


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## pixieboy

Great thread, :no1:
Well done and good luck with the colony. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks again for the replies. 

I think it can work like that with the queens, I'm not sure how many queens are born each time, I guess it depends but I'd be interested to see if more than one colony would form in my setup and if the colonies would be hostile towards eachother.

Another major has also hatched and another one is a few days away from hatching. I didn't expect the colony to grow this much so soon, I thought it would take a while with the state they were in from the mites. I'm also suprised at the amount of majors that have hatched, I started with only one or two and now there are more than five of them. 

Thanks for reading


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## lungz

Just found this awesome thread and read from start to finish. 

This is the first year in 10 that I have not captured 1 or more mated "easy species" lasius Niger queens. Each year I've failed for various reasons so as far as I'm concerned you've done a sterling job (with both ants and the thread). 

Hopefully the parasitic mites episode was just another element of the colony stabilising itself and you / we have years of this colony to follow. 

Can't wait to find a final answer to that question "what mites might these mites be" (groan)


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks a lot for the kind words!  

I'm very interested in what these mites are but a little while ago stupidly ended up chucking out all the mites I had kept in pots. One or two of my old majors still have some mites on them though so if they end up dying and get removed from the nest I'll have some more which I'll try to get good pictures of and then hopefully be closer to finding out what they are.

The colony is doing very well at the moment, a lot of majors hatching, I have around 12 now and atleast a couple more a few days away from hatching. I expected it to take a while longer than it has for the population of the colony to increase as it has, I'm excited about how much bigger the colony will be in another few months.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Some more pics,














































In the first pic there is a newly hatched major and soldier just above the middle of the pic where the major pupa is, also as seen in the pics there are more major pupaes and the last two pics are of a major.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Just a small update, the colony is doing even better than it was 2-3 weeks ago, most castes are hatching literally everyday (workers, soldiers and majors) and they're eating larger amounts now. The queen still has some mites living on her but still appears healthy, especially so with all the brood she is still laying and as said a lot of ants have hatched recently, four majors atleast hatched last night. I think with how this colony is doing at the moment it can make it to see alates.


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## Moshikoyo

Just amazing. I'm grateful for the link. I will definitely be considering a colony, if they actually ever have any that aren't sold out!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks, some species don't pop up very often, like these, but ants like Camponotus are available most of the time, ANTSTORE - Ameisenshop - Ameisen and Buy ants in the ant shop World of Ants have a good variety.


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## Ron Magpie

Do you have to renew soil or other materials around the nest? And if so, what and how?

As you can see, I'm still fascinated!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I've thought of renewing some of the soil, maybe the top layer every now and then because of the waste piles the ants make, but nothing near the nest and it would be a bit awkward with the pathways of ants foraging. 

The reasons for not changing anything near the nest is that the colony could get disturbed and decide they need to move nest which would put them under a lot of stress and they keep the nest and the area around the nest very clean anyway. They're constantly removing any waste and they place it far from the nest. 

I also have springtails living in the setup aswell and have been thinking about introducing woodlice but I think if the ants were to come in to contact with the woodlice they'd be eaten.

Thanks for the reply Ron.


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## Moshikoyo

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Thanks, some species don't pop up very often, like these, but ants like Camponotus are available most of the time, ANTSTORE - Ameisenshop - Ameisen and Buy ants in the ant shop World of Ants have a good variety.


Unfortunately I told the girls I live with and apparently I've played all the 'small things that can possibly escape' cards I have with the crickets, roaches and impending tarantula egg sacks. I only had three, apparently.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Still yet to get a better camera but here are some pics from tonight.










The nest now, they've hit the bottom of the enclosure and have a small chamber at the very bottom where they've stored the seeds they collect.










A major pupa that is going to eclose very soon, most likely would hatch by tomorrow evening, probably sooner seeing as the workers have taken it away from the rest of the brood. Also some worker larvaes aswell as a lot of workers.



















Also there is a spider that has been living in one of the artificial nests for quite a while now, I think it's a false widow, only about 3mm now but has still managed to take down soldiers bigger than itself.

Thanks for reading


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## Veyron

Great pics and spider living down there is an amazing insight into natural behavior :no1:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks, the spider was only a mm when it started taking soldiers down, amazing it could catch soldiers when they were more than double its size, it's moulted a couple times since then so a lot bigger, luckily the ants don't venture into that artificial nest often.


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## Veyron

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> luckily the ants don't venture into that artificial nest often.


Word must have spread through the colony :lol2:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha, I would imagine so


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colony has noticeably grown and their appetite has increased a lot. A sign of the colony growth is that there are larger pathways constantly foraging now, also comparing to the last picture of the whole nest where you can see the brood, I didn't notice it but since seeing that picture again I'd say there is almost double the amount of brood now.

The queen has had some more mites die off of her aswell, about half of her abdomen has some on and the rest of its body is almost free of them which is good to see. I was going to get a pic of the queen but with all the workers grooming her the pic just came out blurry every time and the fact she never stays still anyway.

Thanks for reading


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## benjo

truly fascinating thread, loved everything, but please get a better camera!


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## Kelfezond

You should open up donations to get a macro lens dslr


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks for the replies, I would like to get a better camera but don't really know what I'm looking for, I've looked at SLRs but don't really have a clue.  

Just to add about the ants though some more majors and soldiers have hatched in the last few hours, makes up for the soldiers I saw being carried away to the waste pile earlier.


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## mort13

Wow,I've been captivated by this. I've always found ants amazing,it must be fascinating having a colony of your own you can observe,and worry over. Good luck with them,it sounds like they are doing great. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thankyou  

It has been amazing to see the colony grow, once the mites appeared I thought that was it as everything about these parasites I've read has always ended up with the colony dying, so amazing that they have almost made it through that(the queen having some left on her still). 

I really hope the colony gets alates (winged reproductives) at some stage, I have been told maybe in 5 or 6 months some will be produced. I'm going to have to start increasing the amount of food I put in soon though, I have roaches but not enough of each sizes to start feeding a lot of them off yet.

Also thanks again to everyone following this. :2thumb:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colony is expanding the nest now, a new chamber has been dug at the very bottom and I think they may move into one of the artficial nests sometime. They've hit the bottom corner of one of the nests I made and the silicone fortunately didn't connect in the bottom corner, so now the ants have got inside it and are having a look around in there. Their original nest is crowded now and there is alot of brood so I think they may decide to move soon.


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## snowgoose

Nice to see these doing well after the initial mite scare and such. Any recurrence of any of that?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks, I think the queen still has some mites on her but not many, so many workers grooming her for the last few days I haven't been able to see much but the mite numbers are definitely dropping. 

The Hypoaspis are also still living in the setup, there were hundreds of them when I misted the setup last night, I'm not quite sure what they're living off of at the moment though.


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## snowgoose

How long will this single female last?

Will she produce another to take her place or what happens?


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

I'm not sure how long a Diversus queen can last, although at the moment mine is over 2 years old from what the seller told me when I first bought the colony and I'm not to sure about your second question either. 

I don't think a colony of Diversus has had new queens in captivity before and I can't find anything detailed on Diversus anywhere. I've heard Diversus can have multiple queens in a colony, but I've seen other people that have kept Diversus have 3-4 queens which wont lay eggs until there is only 1 of them left alive, my colony is thriving now so maybe new queens will be produced sometime and I'll be able to write about what happens.

I've got some pics of the nest from tonight, last night they were digging a new chamber at the bottom.

I didn't realise I had the flash on my camera when I took this pic but the ants didn't seem to notice and towards the top left of the pic aren't pieces of brood, they're mould spores which the ants sealed out of the nest.










This is the chamber they dug last night, they moved half of the brood down there and I saw the queen walking around in there.










A major,










This is where the ants got into the artificial nest from but they've decided to seal it and dump dirt in there, I think they may move into it in the future though once the colony is much larger.










Thanks for reading


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## popitgoes

its great seeing your colony get alot bigger and got through the mites mate 

p.s thanks for pming me letting me know you have new pics up  i think you should do my idea that we spoke about lol


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks mate!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colonies eating everything at the moment, I've started to just fill flower pot bases with food now and just leave the ants to it. 

They're all digging alot still, half of the brood has been moved under the artificial nest where I'm also assuming the queen stays as I haven't seen her for a couple days now which was before the chamber was expanded like this and there are plenty of ants still hatching in the brood pile. 

Also I've had a new major/soldier hatch which now forages, my first one to do this and pretty happy with that as I did wonder if majors foraged outside of the nest. It's just under 2cm in length and dwarfs every other ant, so much that the soldiers ride on its back! I hope I get more majors foraging, but when there's just one size of a certain ant they don't come out as much, as in when I first had the colony it was rare to see a normal soldier appear and this major only appears for a minute or so, sometimes just staying in the entrance of the nest.

And I counted 40 soldiers foraging today which is a significant difference to 1 or 2 at the start, something I've noticed is that over time the different castes seem to get larger. The first generation of workers were very small but after a couple months they got noticeably bigger and now the soldiers seem to be getting slowly larger with each generation.


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## andy007

Nice one Harley:2thumb: All sounds very promising now: victory:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks Andy and Sorry I haven't been down for ages, I WILL be in next week!


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## Veyron

Fantastic update as always :no1:

I think an ant colony will be my next project...I just love this.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Definitely worth considering a colony of some species of ant, always find myself being distracted by them because they're always doing something, really interesting to watch and see the colony grow over time.

Just to update on the foraging major though, seem it didn't last long, a couple days ago whilst foraging it kept stumbling and falling over and the next day the workers were trying to force it out of the nest. They've been trying to get rid of the major for atleast a couple days now, but it tries to get back to the nest and that's as far as it gets as the workers stop it from going inside. It's odd as sometimes the major looks dead, it will curl up tight and not move whilst being dragged away by the workers, but then the next minute it will be trying its best to get back to the nest... 

Something I noticed about this major though is that when I first saw it foraging it didn't have an extended gaster, so I'm wondering if it has always been weak and not been fed fed by the other ants which is maybe why it started foraging.


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## DeathRoll

This is an awesome thread - I've always wanted a colony of ants


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## Keano

What a cracking read. Read iy from start to finish. Well done fella.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks for the replies. 

They've now started to dig holes into the artficial nests although I don't think they'll move into them for a while as they've moved right to the very bottom of the setup. 

I can only see some of the brood now which is slightly annoying as I can only see worker and small soldier brood but I know the colonies growing very well as there have been large frenzies during the last few feeds. The floor of the setup was half covered in ants and hundreds were still streaming out of the nest during the last feed.

The foraging major also ended up dying a couple days ago, still unsure as to why the workers were forcing it out of the nest but there must've been something wrong with the major for them to be doing that.


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

The ants had managed to find a way out of the setup yesterday and made a pathway down to the floor of my reptile room where there was a bag of bird seed. They were all caught and put back in the setup and they've been stopped from getting out again. There were two ways they got out, one of the vents and through the lid somehow, I use jelly stuff around the vents which they usually turn around when they walk into it but this time they used pieces of dirt to bridge the jelly and walk over it, shows how smart they are but they haven't tried getting out again so far, I think it's just a case of giving them more food seeing that the pathway lead to the bird seed.

Some pics from today,














































^ This is one of the entrances to one of the artificial nests that they have been in, they piled all the soil there and made the tunnel through it.










^ A small number of workers seeing to a piece of cheese, I saw someone on another forum suggest cheese so I tried the ants on some and they love it.

Thanks for reading.


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## Veyron

Great pictures :no1: 

It's amazing how they can think as one and cooperate to overcome problems :2thumb:


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## popitgoes

i love that they got out 1 day you are going walk in your reptile room and will have about 10,000 ants crawling all over the place lol


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Sorry for the late reply, but they are intelligent, I knew other species of ants could "bridge" things but wasn't sure if these could, I guess a sign of that is that when I give them wet foods they usually put pieces of dirt on it to walk over safely.

It was kind of funny to see them marching around looking for food, took over an hour to catch them all. 

I was also watching the reaction inside the nest the other day when I fed them, really interesting to see the change in their behaviour once they've been hit by the scent and there was another major foraging, bigger than the last one, I'll try to get a pic if it comes out of the nest again and if it will stay still.

Another thing I find interesting, sometimes when the food goes in fairly close to the nest entrance the ants that are moving brood will carry brood out of the nest, walk to where the food is and just turn back. Carrying the brood the whole way, seems the strength of the scent confuses them a bit and when the foods further away it doesn't happen. 

Something that worried me a little when this last happened though was that the queen was being "escorted" through the nest as if they were moving nest completely, after about 10 minutes the ants went back to normal. I can understand the workers getting confused over the scent but seemed odd the queen was being moved...


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Can someone tell me about this please?



















I've seen them grow in some of my setups occasionaly and when I did see them I would remove them, but being in the ant setup, with them foraging I thought I'd leave it over night to see if the ants have moved away from it so I don't disturb them but they haven't. 

I saw an ant on it when it started to sprout around a day ago and since then they've seemed to avoid climbing on it, will it cause any harm to the ants and should I take it out regardless of stressing the foraging ants?


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

I decided to take the fungus out earlier, it was starting to die anyway, the ants seemed smart and cautious enough to stay away from it. 

There's also a big group of ants in one of the artificial nests, 100 or so workers and around 10 soldiers, the workers are carrying the cut up pieces out of the nest whilst the soldiers are tunneling through the back of the nest and they've also covered most of the ready made tunnels with soil so there has been alot of activity in there recently.


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## Veyron

Can't be specific about the mushrooms, but get them very occasionally in tarantula setups and never found a problem.

Perhaps the ants stayed away because they were simply of no interest.

It's good they are using the 'tunnels' you made. I'd imagine this is what they'd do if they do down and found ground that consisted mainly of rock.


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## bothrops

Just a simple biologists observation and apologies if I'm teaching people to suck eggs but the 'mushrooms' are simply the fruiting bodies. Removing them is just like picking an apple from an apple tree. The actual fungus is alive and well (and is usually seen as a whitish fibrous material in the soil - this is the 'hyphae' and is the actual fungus (or the 'tree')) the mushroom is simply the 'sexual organ' of the fungus.


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## CameronJames

Just a thought about your foraging major. Often ants roles with in a colony will change as they ant gets older. Starting off life inside the nest caring for young. Eventually they start to forage, as they come to the end of their life, as they are closer to the 'rubbish pile'. 

What I think you will have seen is a major that was near the end of his life, sent out for foraging duties so it was easier to dispose of him after he died...

I know nothing about this particular species, but know our native ants exhibit this behavior.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thankyou for the replies!

It is good to see them using the artificial nests, no activity in or around them at the moment though but the tunnels look deeper than when I had last looked.

Thanks for the info on the fungus, I had read something along the lines of what you wrote but can any harm be caused by it? I did see some of the workers pick up pieces that had fell off the mushroom but they dropped them quickly.

I think you are right Cameron, with the ants keeping the nest very clean I've only ever seen them carrying deads out of the nest when I first got the colony and at that time they were very reluctant to forage with the colony being so small. Now the colonies so big and they're constantly foraging, I haven't seen anymore deads carried out of the nest, but I never see dead majors other than one from around a month ago which looked odd, the gaster wasn't extended and looked damaged in some way. I just find it odd that such large ants can't be seen in a rubbish pile unless they have more than one pile, but then I don't know how long these majors can live for.

Thanks again for the replies.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Some new pictures of the ants, they've made a new entrance now and pretty much closed the other one.


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## popitgoes

we finally have better pictures lol  nice to see them still going strong mate il be sure to have some soon enough when i talk the mrs into letting me have some lol


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks mate  When they stay still it's easier to get the pics to come out better but they usually don't stop moving. 

Should definitely get a colony, I didn't realise how interesting they were, seeing all the brood and how the colony works together.


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## DarkEntity

Its been a thoroughly enjoyable read, congratulations on a cracking job 

As to the pictures are you trying to take Macro shots (flower setting) holding the camera in your hand. If so get a tripod or have the camera sitting on something to steady it.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

DarkEntity said:


> Its been a thoroughly enjoyable read, congratulations on a cracking job
> 
> As to the pictures are you trying to take Macro shots (flower setting) holding the camera in your hand. If so get a tripod or have the camera sitting on something to steady it.


Thanks! 

I have the camera set on super macro when I take the pictures, I do try to steady it but sometimes from a longer distance the ants don't show in the pictures which is when I try to get closer but can't hold the camera perfectly still.


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## OniExpress

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have the camera set on super macro when I take the pictures, I do try to steady it but sometimes from a longer distance the ants don't show in the pictures which is when I try to get closer but can't hold the camera perfectly still.


A trick I've found with macro shots on auto-focus lenses (dunno if that's what you're using) is to keep autofocusing on the page of a book until you get the closest focus that you can. Then move on to what you actually want to shoot and use that (since a lot of the autofocus cameras have a hard time focusing on small 3d objects, but a large surface can be processed tighter). Doesn't always work, but I thought it could be worth a mention.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

OniExpress said:


> A trick I've found with macro shots on auto-focus lenses (dunno if that's what you're using) is to keep autofocusing on the page of a book until you get the closest focus that you can. Then move on to what you actually want to shoot and use that (since a lot of the autofocus cameras have a hard time focusing on small 3d objects, but a large surface can be processed tighter). Doesn't always work, but I thought it could be worth a mention.


Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try next time I try to get some pictures. It usually does take a while for it to focus on the ants and with them moving it just makes it more difficult!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colony is still doing very well and decided to move the brood back to view for the first time in a while so I thought I'd get some more pics. This lot of brood goes back about an inch so there is quite alot of it, noticed a few new majors aswell as soldiers and there is much more soldier and major larvae/pupae all in different stages of growth so the colony is very stable.


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## Veyron

That's way too many larvae :2thumb: .....might be time to upgrade the tank soon :mf_dribble:

So pleased after all the trials and tribulations that the colony is thriving.

Will there ever be a time that it will get _too big_ and you will need to get rid of some or cut down on the food ?


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

Veyron said:


> That's way too many larvae :2thumb: .....might be time to upgrade the tank soon :mf_dribble:
> 
> So pleased after all the trials and tribulations that the colony is thriving.
> 
> Will there ever be a time that it will get _too big_ and you will need to get rid of some or cut down on the food ?


The feeding frenzies are crazy, the floor of the setup will literally be covered in ants at times there's so many and I was thinking of that, I want to link the old setup to a new setup at some stage, not sure when though.

To be honest I thought the mites were the end of the colony when the infestation seemed out of hand but it's under control now, infact I saw two workers a couple days ago inside the nest covered in some of the parasitic mites, it seems they don't want to die off but at numbers as low as they are at the moment they don't seem to be a problem. I also still haven't seen the queen in a long while so I'm not sure if she still has many mites on her, now the brood has been moved back though she should appear soon.

I've also been thinking about this, I'm not entirely sure how big a colony of this species can get but I heard you can regulate the numbers by measuring how much food you put in, I don't have any idea of how much food would have to be cut down though and I'm not sure if it would work as I've found out first hand that if the colony wants more food they will find it!


----------



## Veyron

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> The feeding frenzies are crazy, the floor of the setup will literally be covered in ants at times there's so many and I was thinking of that, I want to link the old setup to a new setup at some stage, not sure when though.
> 
> To be honest I thought the mites were the end of the colony when the infestation seemed out of hand but it's under control now, infact I saw two workers a couple days ago inside the nest covered in some of the parasitic mites, it seems they don't want to die off but at numbers as low as they are at the moment they don't seem to be a problem. I also still haven't seen the queen in a long while so I'm not sure if she still has many mites on her, now the brood has been moved back though she should appear soon.
> 
> I've also been thinking about this, I'm not entirely sure how big a colony of this species can get but I heard you can regulate the numbers by measuring how much food you put in, I don't have any idea of how much food would have to be cut down though and I'm not sure if it would work as I've found out first hand that if the colony wants more food they will find it!


In nature, most ant colonies expand then divide into a new one. 

I thought the mites may have been the end to this aswel, but I'm now thinking it's natures way of keeping things in check...as your colony has not got rid of the problem, but is coping perfectly well with it and will most likely be stuck with the mites forever.


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

Veyron said:


> In nature, most ant colonies expand then divide into a new one.
> 
> I thought the mites may have been the end to this aswel, but I'm now thinking it's natures way of keeping things in check...as your colony has not got rid of the problem, but is coping perfectly well with it and will most likely be stuck with the mites forever.


Well I'm still hoping my colony will produce new queens at some stage, I heard after the cooler weather once it starts to warm up again they'll eventualy produce alates. This species is supposedly polygyne but I've heard of queens fighting to the death in another colony so I'm interested into whether new queens would stick to this colony or make a new one.

I agree, I don't think the mites will go, I have found some things saying in the wild it's normal for these mites to be found in Diversus colonies.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I still haven't seen the queen again, I'm wondering if there is another lot of brood somewhere where she is, but then the majors are with the bunch of brood I can see, either way she's hidden well for a massive ant!


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## EffyDaydream

KentuckyFrogler101 said:


> It was delivered, I live in Cornwall and I think Custom Aquaria is in Nottingham and didn't fancy going that far! The ants are also expected for next thursday now, the sender is having trouble getting them in the postage tube but that gives me more time to get the tank setup :2thumb:


Haha, I feel sorry for them having to try get them all in there! Hopefully none escape on the way... Poor postie... :whistling2:


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## EffyDaydream

I responded without realising how many pages there were! haha, having a great time reading through, on page 9 hehe


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## KentuckyFrogler101

EffyDaydream said:


> I responded without realising how many pages there were! haha, having a great time reading through, on page 9 hehe


Hahaha  Thanks for reading!


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## martin3

This is a puka thread, a real insight into keeping ants in captivity, nice one :2thumb:


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## Veyron

martin3 said:


> This is a puka thread, a real insight into keeping ants in captivity, nice one :2thumb:


Puka ? Are you from _daan souff :lol2:_


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## martin3

Veyron said:


> Puka ? Are you from _daan souff :lol2:_


Yeah, I am as it appens,..:lol2:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

The colony is still going very strong, the last month or two have been quiet because of the cooler temperatures, but now it's starting to get warmer they've started foraging a lot more often again. I am planning to replace the substrate as it has pretty much dried out, but need to work out how I'm going to get the colony to move first  

A couple pics,


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I haven't updated this in a while but the colony is still doing very well, the colony's appetite significantly changed in the last month with the ants foraging a lot more for food. I thought the most obvious thing is that there has been a population explosion or something along those lines and earlier I found a queen/male pupating in amongst some of the brood. It's the only one I can see but the brood it's with is only a small amount so there could be more queens/males pupating in other chambers.

I think it will only be a couple of weeks or so until it has hatched as it is fully formed, I might be able to find out sooner than that if it's a male or a queen because at the moment I can't see the shape of it's head.



Thanks for reading!


----------



## KentuckyFrogler101

I have now spotted two queen pupa's as well as one very large larva. It's difficult to see in this picture because of all the ants and the other brood, but here is a picture of one of the queen pupa's and the larva.



And a more clearer picture of the other queen...


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## Veyron

Good luck attempting to change the substrate !! :whistling2:

Can't you just re-wet it ?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha yeah that seems impossible now!  I have instead just been wetting the substrate more as you suggested. I am also considering another enclosure to be linked with the old one, so if they moved from the old one to the new one for example I could perhaps seal the link to the old enclosure and change the substrate. Also assuming the mating is successful I may well need a new enclosure anyway as the colony will grow a lot faster! 

Referring to the second to last picture of the queen/male larva and the queen pupa, after seeing the ants move the brood around it turns out that in that picture it is actually two queen pupa's so I now have at least three queen pupa's and one queen/male larva. I don't think it'll be long until I find queens and males wondering around outside of the nest, maybe a couple weeks.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

It's been a while since I updated this thread because I haven't been on the forum in a while so I decided to do an update today. The ants are still doing very well, very healthy and lots are still being produced. I haven't seen the queen for near enough a year but she must be ok with the thousands of ants I see foraging and doing other things. 

Unfortunately I have no idea what happened to the alate pupae, maybe because the conditions weren't good enough the colony destroyed them? I never saw any trace of them again though, usually any waste would be taken to their rubbish pile outside of the nest but I never saw anything, which makes me wonder if it's possible they would just live in the nest until the conditions are good enough for mating. 

I recently started pouring water into the fake nests (as the ants did not use them much) to up the humidity and get some more moisture in the substrate. After a few days one nest was used as a path way to carry brood through, they placed the brood just outside of the first fake nest where the soil adjacent to it had soaked up some of the water, but they didn't go to live in the fake nest. Last night I noticed a big trail of mostly workers with some soldiers scouting the second fake nest and I peered inside earlier to find this:



That single chamber is about 10"x3"x3" (LxHxW) so you can see there is a huge amount of ants inside it, there are still hundreds maybe thousands moving more brood and foraging. The closest half of the chamber with the brood packed in is thick with ants, not just on the walls of the chamber but actually filling that whole area, the small entrance next to the brood is packed with majors and soldiers too. I tried to see if I could find the queen in there but I guess she is literally in the middle of all of them which is annoying for me.  I don't believe that is all of the brood as I can only see worker eggs/larvae/pupae in that chamber and there is still some brood being carried in but then again that is still all baby workers. 

I have a few clips of the ants here for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6avu_pWPdZUgBiA7rRhMSCsQXVDJ7rw


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Hundreds more workers have moved into the fake nest now, but I realised all the brood in there is all larvae with some eggs, no pupae. The queen also isn't in there so must be in a chamber in the substrate with all the pupae, maybe the move is still in progress but I didn't think they would be so selective with what brood they take into the fake nest. In previous pictures I have posted all the brood (eggs, larvae, pupae) is all kept in the same place, perhaps now the colony is so big they've decided to try organise the brood, I'm not sure though...


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## HollyN

Just read the thread from the beginning and it's been one heck of a journey, one of the most interesting threads I've read so far. 

It's such a shame you went through all the struggles (as I was reading through I had a horrid feeling that you would lose them as the situation kept getting worse) But they have bounced back and it's amazing, they are doing so well! That chamber of ants in your last photo is impressive!


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## KentuckyFrogler101

HollyN said:


> Just read the thread from the beginning and it's been one heck of a journey, one of the most interesting threads I've read so far.
> 
> It's such a shame you went through all the struggles (as I was reading through I had a horrid feeling that you would lose them as the situation kept getting worse) But they have bounced back and it's amazing, they are doing so well! That chamber of ants in your last photo is impressive!


It is amazing how far the colony has come after the mite saga, I wasn't so sure they'd make it through that at the time but it still amazes me that they did (with a lot of help from the defender mites) and how well the colony is doing now. The fake nest still has more ants settling in there at the moment, they're also digging there own tunnels through the foam so I hope to get some new pics in a few days. Thanks for reading


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I just spotted the queen inside the same chamber as in the previous photo so it turns out she has been in there the whole time, it was just so hard to see her because she constantly has a swarm of workers covering her. Now I'm even more curious as to why the brood is split up, I don't think they're thinking of bringing the rest into the fake nest because the ants work fast.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I've been trying to find out more about why the brood could be separated but I'm still not sure why. I think it's the size of the colony that has triggered this but there's not really any organisation with the brood so I can't think specifically why they've done it. 

I heard that as colonies get larger they can decide to prioritise brood dependent on the stage of development, specifically pupae being moved to a warmer place to develop faster, but I don't think this is the case with my ants. I initially thought if anything were to be moved to a warmer place to develop quicker it would be the larvae so they can metabolise quicker seeing as they are the only stage of the brood cycle that feed. 

I also done a little experiment, the small larvae and eggs were kept in fake nest 1 along with the queen, fake nest 2 was empty so I thought I'd take advantage of that and stick a heat mat to the face of the tank to heat fake nest 2. A couple days later and the ants have moved all the brood (eggs and small larvae) from fake nest 1 to fake nest 2, no sign of any large larvae or the large pupae but I have seen some worker pupae, I think these have come from the larvae pile that were already in the fake nests though as there aren't many of them. 

There just doesn't seem to be any consistency regarding my colonies brood, the two theories of pupae being prioritised to be kept warmer to develop faster and my theory of larvae needing warmth to metabolise quicker both don't seem to apply to my colony. Pupae didn't get moved into the heated nest and not all of the larvae got moved into it so I'm stumped  I'm not worried about the health of the brood I cannot see, but I'm still confused as to why they've sorted the brood like this.

On another note I'm finally making progress on an expansion to my setup. I'm planning on converting one of my old 3' fish tanks into a foraging area, I just need to design a lid especially to keep the ants from escaping and get some equipment to cut holes for tubing into the sides which shouldn't be too hard. I'm also wanting to either convert another fish tank into a nest area or make my own, ideally I would like it to be a minimum of 18"x18"x24" LxWxH and I think that would be suitable size for them to nest inside. Currently I have pictured in my head the nest on one end, foraging area in the middle and my current setup on the opposite end. Hoping that putting distance between the two setups they are able to nest in will mean they will use one or the other so I can seal of the unused one and clean if necessary.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

I haven't updated this in a while so thought I would with some fresh pics of some of the ants and their brood. Some of them have decided to return to the artificial nests, this is just one of the chambers that is being used and this is only a small amount of ants and brood. 

As seen in the first pic there is a tunnel to the left, they created this tunnel by themselves and it leads to the soil underneath where there are ants and more brood. The soil is completely dug out through the whole four foot length of the enclosure at the front, filled with ants, so pictured inside this chamber is just a small amount of ants and brood. I'm glad they're still doing so well after 2 years.


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## GRB

Is that Oasis foam?

I recently discovered this often contains formaldehyde, amongst other potentially dangerous chemicals if ingested. I thin from now on I'll be giving my oasis blocks several good rinses in fresh water before use.


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Yes they are large Oasis blocks, I rinsed them a few times before they were put into the setup and when the ants dig into them they just seem to pile it up somewhere (a pile of the foam can be seen in the pics). The ants use the Oasis blocks often but I don't believe the adult ants can ingest solids, only the larvae can and they only eat what the adults give to them.


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## samuelbird

Wow, you should write a book! :mf_dribble:


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Haha 

The colony is still doing great but are still hiding the large brood, it was in the warmer weather last year that adults were being produced. No idea whether those queens and males eclosed or not but hoping more will be produced sometime. 







The pupas in the pictures change colour as they get closer to eclosing, white pupas are fresh but the brown/orange looking ones will hatch in a few days. The ants are constantly moving the brood about and it seems because of the warm weather they are moving the brood closer to the surface.


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## deansie26

..........


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## deansie26

This is an amazing journal mate, wish you where closer and I ask to visit lol. Anymore updates?


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## KentuckyFrogler101

Thanks mate  I'm actually in the process of moving house at the moment so trying to get the colony to move into something smaller by drying out the main enclosure and providing a couple tubs filled with moist soil that they could move the colony into. So far there's been activity in the two tubs, small streams of workers going in and out and digging a little bit, they have dug a couple of entrances outside the tubs so I'm wondering if there trying to shorten the journey if they did move the colony. Or my other theory was because of the lack of misting maybe they're digging more holes to allow more moisture into the nest for when it 'rains' again.

If they did move the colony I would redo the whole setup, take out both artificial nests, maybe leave one in, but I would plant the whole enclosure out this time and add some more decor. Mosses, climbing plants etc.

I'll try get some pics up later :2thumb:


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