# Silky smooth corn snake?



## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey,
Sorry may be in the wrong section. 
I have just had a clutch of 5 corns hatch out (2 days ago), they are all normals from 2 seemingly normal corns. However they have all come out of the incubator looking like they are about to shed (which I didn't think was possible) and whats even weirder is they all feel like a 'silk scarf' no other way of explaining it.
Any ideas? 
Is this normal?

None of my others have come out like that!


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## fuzzzzbuzzzz (Apr 11, 2010)

kodisbabe said:


> Hey,
> Sorry may be in the wrong section.
> I have just had a clutch of 5 corns hatch out (2 days ago), they are all normals from 2 seemingly normal corns. However they have all come out of the incubator looking like they are about to shed (which I didn't think was possible) and whats even weirder is they all feel like a 'silk scarf' no other way of explaining it.
> Any ideas?
> ...


Have you got any pictures?

Gemma


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## Adams Corns (Aug 5, 2010)

Mine feel weird when ready to shed but i dont know, Pics would be best


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Yeah a good close up pic would help us....last time i went to hamm i saw some scaleless corns which felt exactly as youve just described...looked really weird ;-).....heres a pic ;-)


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## starfox (Nov 21, 2010)

The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Yeah a good close up pic would help us....last time i went to hamm i saw some scaleless corns which felt exactly as youve just described...looked really weird ;-).....heres a pic ;-)
> 
> http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/...s/hamm show/?action=view&current=DSCN1428.jpgimage


Wow.. that looks so weird but awesome. It's not cruel if they don't have scales.. is it?


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

starfox said:


> Wow.. that looks so weird but awesome. It's not cruel if they don't have scales.. is it?


Dunno, but i dont think they'd do well in the wild, the skin is very soft & i would have thought easily damaged.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

starfox said:


> Wow.. that looks so weird but awesome. It's not cruel if they don't have scales.. is it?


No, it's not cruel - they have *skin*, they just don't have scales (which are the equivalent of hair or feathers, by the way - and made of the same stuff).



The_Real_Moreliaman said:


> Dunno, but i dont think they'd do well in the wild, the skin is very soft & i would have thought easily damaged.


There have been wild-caught adult scaleless snakes - Texas rats for example - so it obviously doesn't hinder them THAT much.


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> There have been wild-caught adult scaleless snakes - Texas rats for example - so it obviously doesn't hinder them THAT much.


I didnt say they wernt found in the wild did i !...Albino's have been found in the wild too, but they dont survive well because they stand out (just 1 reason)

My point was that there's obviously an advantage to having scales otherwise more scaleless snakes would be found in the wild.

I know youve had run-ins with me before & dont like me (the feelings mutual) So the least you could do is not try to bait me by being sarky...and ill do the same for you:flrt:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

No sarcasm intended, TRMm - just pointing out that there have been wild caught adults, and that therefore it does not appear to stop an individual surviving to adulthood.

They are likely uncommon because the known gene(s?) for scalelessness appears to be recessive in snakes, and after the initial mutation, it'd take the scaleless animal surviving to breed, producing hets that survive, and those hets breeding with each other to produce (on average) a quarter scaleless offspring - and then counting on them (or their possible-het siblings) to survive and also breed. Any recessive trait is going to have to be superior to its dominant counterpart in order to spread throughout a population significantly; if it isn't, the dominant trait is just plain easier to reproduce since you don't need homozygosity for it to display.

As far as it goes, you're a faceless stranger on the internet; I neither like nor dislike you because I simply don't know you well enough to care either way. TBH, hadn't even been aware we'd had "run-ins" before because I tend to read posts and respond to post text rather than look at user names and respond to users.


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> No sarcasm intended, TRMm - just pointing out that there have been wild caught adults, and that therefore it does not appear to stop an individual surviving to adulthood.
> 
> They are likely uncommon because the known gene(s?) for scalelessness appears to be recessive in snakes, and after the initial mutation, it'd take the scaleless animal surviving to breed, producing hets that survive, and those hets breeding with each other to produce (on average) a quarter scaleless offspring - and then counting on them (or their possible-het siblings) to survive and also breed. Any recessive trait is going to have to be superior to its dominant counterpart in order to spread throughout a population significantly; if it isn't, the dominant trait is just plain easier to reproduce since you don't need homozygosity for it to display.
> 
> As far as it goes, you're a faceless stranger on the internet; I neither like nor dislike you because I simply don't know you well enough to care either way. TBH, hadn't even been aware we'd had "run-ins" before because I tend to read posts and respond to post text rather than look at user names and respond to users.



Im not going to continue this because i know if i do the little digs you make every now and then will increase..... i guess now your a mod the best thing to do is play innocent...as i said....please dont bait me like you and your little clan of followers used too & i'll allow you the same respect.


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

Sorry Kodisbabe...please ignore all that crap that doesnt relate to this thread........Some pics would be great :2thumb:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

kodisbabe said:


> However they have all come out of the incubator looking like they are about to shed (which I didn't think was possible) and whats even weirder is they all feel like a 'silk scarf' no other way of explaining it.
> Any ideas?
> Is this normal?


I would also be very interested to see good "macro" photos of these guys... it'd be brilliant if you've actually recovered a scaleless trait in PURE corn snakes, seeing as the currently marketed scaleless "corns" are in fact Rootbeer / Creamsicle ratsnakes (they're corn / Great Plains Rat crosses).


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Will try and get some pics up later but they dont look any different scale wise I know for a fact they are not scaleless as I have seen pics of them. They have scales but feel like silk but have only just hatched so will be a week before they shed!? 

Don't worry, The real M... I didn't read any of that lol see it was an argument starting so just flicked through till it got back to the thread lol.


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## The_Real_Moreliaman (Jan 24, 2009)

kodisbabe said:


> Will try and get some pics up later but they dont look any different scale wise I know for a fact they are not scaleless as I have seen pics of them. They have scales but feel like silk but have only just hatched so will be a week before they shed!?


 Wot ??...scales ??







...oh well...you gotta post a pic now anyway..i presume we'll have to wait a week ?...lol



kodisbabe said:


> Don't worry, The real M... I didn't read any of that lol see it was an argument starting so just flicked through till it got back to the thread lol.


No worries mate...im used to it by now, been on & off this site a few times & its usually the same motley crew that want to have a pop because they know its like holding a red rag out to me:lol2:
But i do feel guilty because its your thread & im party to the childish bickering...so sorry about that mate.: victory:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

kodisbabe said:


> Will try and get some pics up later but they dont look any different scale wise I know for a fact they are not scaleless as I have seen pics of them. They have scales but feel like silk but have only just hatched so will be a week before they shed!?


Oddly enough, my second-clutch babies hatched out looking "ready to shed" but didn't feel any different to normal. It'd still be interesting - I know there's been a "Microscaled" variant discovered in Europe recently, too....


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey took a while but here's some pics, like I said though I wouldn't say they look diff it how they feel. Its only a 10.2MP digi cam so pics not great.


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

I've got a few 4 week old hatchlings here, and I've noticed that hatchlings always seem to feel soft and silky until quite a few sheds, that might just be me though :lol2:


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> I would also be very interested to see good "macro" photos of these guys... it'd be brilliant if you've actually recovered a scaleless trait in PURE corn snakes, seeing as the currently marketed scaleless "corns" are in fact Rootbeer / Creamsicle ratsnakes (they're corn / Great Plains Rat crosses).


I didnt know this!


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

kodisbabe said:


> Hey took a while but here's some pics, like I said though I wouldn't say they look diff it how they feel. Its only a 10.2MP digi cam so pics not great.
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Look perfectly normal to me, I've seen some corns shed only a couple of days after hatching.

P.S. 10.2 MP digital camera is plenty enough, you just need to get the pics in focus better and under better light


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

OK will try to take a better photo.

Exactly they look perfectly norm but feel weird, none of my others have though and over last 2/3 months I've had 118 hatch out


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Crownan said:


> I didnt know this!


Yup. The first Scaleless animals were produced in France if I remember rightly, from a pure GPR and a pure Corn - apparently both heterozygous for something that's the same gene in both species, since they produced multiple scaleless offspring. Regrettably, it appears that both adult animals have since died - and there is no way to recover the scaleless trait in pure corn snakes from the pure corn parent.


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Can't get it any better then this. I'm gonna keep these 5 and see what they are like after a few sheds.


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