# Dartfrog.co.uk



## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Anyone know if they are open Mondays and about how long it takes to deliver livestock?
Gave them a phone but no answer.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

emails the best way of getting hold of him (i think his names mark) because somtimes he's too busy to answer the phone or other such reasons. 

there really good tho. delivery depends on weather and what u want. since its been very cold the last few weeks they havent been sending anything out as transit may harm the animals but it warming up a bit so salamanders should be shipping soon, dunno about tropical species tho. there a great shop tho, great customer service and the salamanders, livefood equipment etc ive had from the is always top class. (ive currently got some more salamanders on order with them :whistling2


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks. I'm getting a Salamander from them and I'm dieing with anticipation lol. I've emailed him too but I geuss he must just be busy, especially if he's running that shop himself.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

IanF94 said:


> Thanks. I'm getting a Salamander from them and I'm dieing with anticipation lol. I've emailed him too but I geuss he must just be busy, especially if he's running that shop himself.


didnt he send u an update about the weather i recieved this about a week ago



dartfrog.co.uk said:


> Hi Jonathan,
> With the weather pretty atrocious round here at the moment and night time temperatures down to -6 C it is probably prudent to delay sending the salamanders until the weather improves. Hope this Is ok with you.
> Regards
> Mark


he wont send out till he' happy it safe. it may take a while but its better imho

p.s. can i ask what u ordered


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Ah right, looks like I might be waiting then. The weather's not looking to bad lately so I might be in luck. But the Sals safety is first so I'm glad he takes that respondisbilty.
I'm getting an A. Gracile. Always wanted one and they're great little guys. Now share what you'll be getting.=P


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

If i remember right he is away at the moment.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

2 sub adult long tailed salamanders,

its suppose to warm up over this week so might send them out this week. well the extra times given me time to make sure my tank is 100% escape proof.


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Very cool. Make sure to post some pictures, and good luck with them.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Yup Marc's off collecting some goodies at the moment, tried phoning this afternoon myself before I remembered!
Email is always the best option really.

He bringing you any presents KJ? :mf_dribble:

To the OP tho, Dartfrog, all round top notch 
Lotte***


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> To the OP tho, Dartfrog, all round top notch
> Lotte***


 Agreed by the looks of it.


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Right just got emailed back. He's off to Holland but might be posting tommorow before he leaves.:no1:


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Looks awesome and really good to see plants advertised more.

I didnt realise but this is around the corner from where i live, used to live even closer could of walked there haha!


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY
did i mention YAY 

my sals have been dispatched

now for the waiting game........ :whistling2:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

LOL awww everyones all excited :flrt:

he should be opening a new shop by the end of this month and my friend and i are off for a gander.. im picking up some cork and some plants/moss etc to re-do one of my vivs..

may have to look see if he has any white phase terribilis or splashbacks for sale :whistling2:


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

OK im getting worried now. the salamanders still arent here. i am exceedingly phibless. they are suppose to be next day signed for delivery..........


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## mad4frogs (Aug 8, 2006)

Yes so much for his courierin service...royal mail and you know what theyre like for turning up. 



> To the OP tho, Dartfrog, all round top notch


Not going into details but sad to say I disagree


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

That's not too good, hope you get them alright.
I got mine today on a brighter note, it's very cool and already eating. It's got the personality part down too, up at the glass for food already lol.


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

mad4frogs said:


> Yes so much for his courierin service...royal mail and you know what theyre like for turning up.
> 
> 
> 
> Not going into details but sad to say I disagree


 I beleive it's only TNT that can deliver live animals. I geuss opinions vary, I felt it was very good, hopefully Spenddays will show up soon too, it's the couriers responsibilty in my opinion.


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## mad4frogs (Aug 8, 2006)

Na Ive bought PDFs off him before and they came by ROYAL MAIL (nxt day)...I was less than impressed with the service, but thats not all I wasnt happy with.


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## IanF94 (Oct 12, 2008)

Awell, geuss it Varies. I was under the impression only TNT delivered live animals in the UK.


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

Was waiting until someone else posted before I did. 

Also had 2 bad dealings, and will never deal with again. Bought a trio of day geckos, told m/f/f, arrived m/m/f, and with mites- lasted a week.
Stupidily dealt with him again- bought some fairly rare frogs.
Had animals sent through Royal Mail, which I have been told by Royal Mail themselves is illegal, and when the animals arrived, both frogs DOA.

Caution to all.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

thats really strange - ive never had problems from dartfrog and ive dealt with Mark many times.

However i dont agree with couriering animals unless its reptile taxi or gremlin rides... therefore ive always collected my animals from him directly. 

Ive always found great communication, healthy animals and decent prices.


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

YEP royal mail delivery is very illeal i myself was given a slp on the wrist by the RSPCA for it. it shouldn't e done especially when they have a TNT account that LEGALLY are ble to send animals.

i am very surprised for them to risk doing ta. chris were you asked how you want it sent? and i hope it wasn't your cornuta?


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## mad4frogs (Aug 8, 2006)

> Was waiting until someone else posted before I did.


hey chris, I thought id put my view in cause so many ppl r ravin bout him, so am assumin newbies to the hobby

I have a few dealings with him and will not use him eva again. Bought darts from him b4 all died within couple of weeks, asked for refund said hell find some more. this went on for ages and kept havin to phone (at my expense) then he kept ignoring me and fobbin me off. so i said ok ill have these others that were on the site (that was less value @ my expense again) obviously didnt want to do the 12hr round trip again so asked him to courier...yes royal mail. 
Also everytime i bought cultures theyd be full of mites or dead, so obviously asked for replacements. 
His email to me was..." I dont want your custom from now on cause everytime you buy something you complain" If his service was not addaquite then I have the right to say that I am dissatisfied, especially if ive paid a heck of alot for frogs and for food that cant be used (and again to my expense have to find somewhere else)..also bought plants off him that were near enough dead....the list goes on 

As I spk to alot of long term froggers in the hobby I havent heard anything good about him, but I wont go into their stories on here.

I just like the way that everyone on this forum raves about dartfrog, yet those who have bad dealings with him are frightened of voicing their views in case they get slated


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

thats really shocking! 

I guess im lucky to never have had these problems.

There is no excuse for sending animals via royal mail - but i disagree with couriering them entirely so people take the risk if they want them delivered by any other means than personal car, or reptile taxi.

still doesnt excuse everything else thats happened to you - and you should never be afraid to voice your opinion, no matter what everybody else thinks!


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

I've also had problems with (very expensive) frogs dying with no replacement or refund given and wrongly sexed frogs.


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

chrism said:


> Had animals sent through Royal Mail, which I have been told by Royal Mail themselves is illegal, and when the animals arrived, both frogs DOA.


Hey bud, im still shocked at the state of them, have you found any more yet ?


People comming out of the wood work here, no comment from me.


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## mad4frogs (Aug 8, 2006)

> People comming out of the wood work here, no comment from me.


aarrr go on KJ...good or bad :lol2:


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

Shhhhh, im with the big guns.


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

exoticsandtropics said:


> chris were you asked how you want it sent? and i hope it wasn't your cornuta?


Didnt ask, as assumed would only send legally, and yup, were my Cornuta.



KJ Exotics said:


> People comming out of the wood work here, no comment from me.





mad4frogs said:


> aarrr go on KJ...good or bad :lol2:


Dont blame you for not posting KJ as also your business.

I also bought some moss- then strange coincidence, my tanks were loaded with slugs.

Emailed asking for genuine help, not complaining, just wanted advice on ridding slugs. Reply was 'its a natural product, slugs are to be expected'... :bash::bash::bash:


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

This all reminds me of a problem I had with another big Amphibian supplier who couriered my Red Eyed Tree Frogs via TNT and all 5 died within a week and yep no refund so no more sales from me.

And the people who came out of the woodwork sent me PM's with their horror stories, seems like quite a few people are scared to come on here to inform others in case they get slated.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

chrism said:


> I also bought some moss- then strange coincidence, my tanks were loaded with slugs.


I brought alot of plants off him along with some mosses. I have to say the broms i got were very good value for money. 

However, after added the mosses to my tanks i ended up with hundreds of bloody slugs. I know its a natural product, but i would have appriciated some sort of warning. The only way i got rid of them was to sit there at night with a pair of tweezers and an open window lol. After two nights they werre all gone. Though next doors garden had a few extra ones  

Other then that i have never really had any bad expereinces, but then again i have never brought live stock from him, nor do i have plans to. I'll stick to pollywog for my frogs as speaking to others i heard the same stories as mentioned above.


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

Spikebrit said:


> I have to say the broms i got were very good value for money.


You should see ENT's then- this cost me less than £20!
Sadly they're plant bit on the site seems to be down atm...










Anyway, back on topic.

Also sat removing slugs one by one and using potato traps. Great when had put the moss in 5 vivs. :censor:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

My 4 leucs came from Dartfrog. They arrived when expected and are now starting to call.

However, they were delivered by Royal Mail, with nothing on the box to indicate that it was livestock (which doesn't surprise me - if there had been, Royal Mail would not accept it).

I was very surprised that someone who sells so many different species, with a very impressive site, would act so illegally by sending live animals through the postal system!!

I certainly would not use them again for livestock, the risk is too much.


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## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Not one to complain on forums about companies but this is a black and white case, basically... i'm still waiting for a pair of pygmy marbled newts that i paid for around 2 years ago, that's £38 still owed!. So i won't be using them again.


Pollywog on the other hand are the much better bet imho, i've had things from Andrew via other peoples orders and his service has been SUPERB (no chytrid either).


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

yeah andrew is amazing , he seems to have slowed down about but is good it's all still there and animals are ALWAYS really good quality. 

i'm always slightly worried with dartfrog to where everything is coming from. for some of the items the prices seem VERY cheap cheaper han i can buy at trade. suppose thats a good thing really!


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## KJ Exotics (Jun 16, 2007)

exoticsandtropics said:


> yeah andrew is amazing , he seems to have slowed down about but is good it's all still there and animals are ALWAYS really good quality.


 
He has slowed down, as it is winter so less stuff comming in etc. It will pick up again soon


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

no but back in the day when i started andrew had the same amount as dartfrog- better quality though( i know, i supplied some).


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

my blue spotteds came on time healthy and (i think) via TNT, ive found out where my sal are (i think) i checked the companies letter tray before i left a courier attempted to delivery a package at 13.21, couldnt have done a very good job since there was around 20 people on my floor. it might be because the bottom is currently not in use (we only rent the 1st floor and there's another comapny on the top)


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

mad4frogs said:


> hey chris, I thought id put my view in cause so many ppl r ravin bout him, so am assumin newbies to the hobby...
> 
> ...I just like the way that everyone on this forum raves about dartfrog, yet those who have bad dealings with him are frightened of voicing their views in case they get slated


I'm not a newbie to the hobby by any stretch of the imagination, I can only offer my own personal account of my own personal dealings with Marc, which have so far been "top notch".

But then I have never entertained having animals couriered to me so no wonder I haven't encountered the main issues mentioned.

I don't think anyone "raves" about it and I certainly don't think anyone who believes they have factual experience to share that may help others make choices, should be afraid to do so.

Lotte***


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

I suppose i should have mentioned in my previous post that my frogs came from Andrew at Pollywog and there were originally 7 not 5 as i previosly mentioned

Here's the link when it happened

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/classified-chat/174473-few-frog-deaths-since-buying.html


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

Awww what a terrible shame!!

4 week old froglets are no where NEAR juveniles, they should not of been sent out, next day delivery or not as 99% of retfs that small will die of stress even from a short journey and the fact there was no foliage, heat pack etc is just neglect on the seller's part! A seller who definately knows better!

I also understand why you feel badly treated with the fact he happily replaced everybody else's frog but not yours.

On the other hand, you did accept the terms and conditions..which he has not actually broken any of. Any shop has the same T&C.

You ignored the 1st step of buying any new amphibs..Go see them for yourself and make sure you are happy before parting with any money.

You must of known how fragile these frogs in particular are, yet you agreed to have them sent out.

And I have heard nothing but glowing reports from this dealer..

All in all, I do think I'm on your side, the whole 'exchanging everyone else's but yours' has really annoyed me, but honestly make sure you are 110% happy before parting with any money in future.

I'd NEVER reccomend couriering a retf of any age.

Out of interest, did you manage to salvage the last remaining frog?


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

I'm not going to comment on Dartfrog as it's not my place to do so but as Mr ******** (aka NWLondon, aka Renfield) has now raised issue with my stock/services I will address his issue.

As published on my website I offer a live arrival guarantee on my livestock deliveries, I don’t offer any guarantees past this live arrival guarantee as once the animal is out of my care I can not control how it is looked after. This is a standard in the industry; in fact most companies won’t even offer the live arrival guarantee on amphibians. When someone places an order with me they accept my terms & conditions whether they have read them or not.

Any complaints I receive (which are very few and far between) are handled on their own individual merits.

In the case of Mr ******** (Renfield). I received a phone call on the day of arrival as Mr ******** was unpacking the shipment; on unpacking he went straight to the Xenopus having carelessly thrown the Agalychnis to one side with the packaging material. Mr ******** then confirmed that all of the frogs he purchased (Agalychnis callidryas & Xenopus laevis) had arrived in good health and that he was very happy with them, he also posted on this forum stating he was very happy with the animals I provided.
A week later I then received e-mails and a phone call from Mr ******** in a very aggressive manor asking me to refund/replace his Agalychnis, he was claiming that a frog had died several days previous to the phone call yet he did not contact me sooner to seek my advice in order to possibly save his other frogs. Mr ******** was unable/unwilling to provide straightforward answers to very simple questions about the care the frogs had been receiving. Mr ******** subsequently hung up on me mid-conversation. Following this e-mails went back and forth, I received another phone call once again Mr ******** was speaking in a very aggressive manor and once again hung up mid-conversation.

The animals I provided were exactly as advertised, the term Juvenile is as stated in the dictionary “A young animal that has not reached sexual maturity”.


It is my view that the frogs provided were in perfect health and that their death was the result of Mr ********’s care and his choice to ignore advice I had provided before and after his purchase. As such it was my decision that I would not be providing any refund or replacement.

Enough of you reading this have dealt with me in person, know who I am and know my reputation.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter and I will not enter into any further discussion on this subject.


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## Renfield (May 20, 2008)

*Rebuttal Regarding Red Eyed Green Tree Frog Mortality*

Shipping by this method is indeed a tried and successful way of transporting amphibians. provided the animals have been given the opportunity to put on sufficient size and weight to cushion the shock of the temperature changes and having their "world" thrown around as happens in moving the animals by courier.​ 
The only way the frogs delivered to me could be measured as 2cm would have been to take into account outstretched limbs. the "nose to tail" measurement of the largest on arrival was 1.6cm. While this .4cm difference may not sound like much, for a young frog of this species it is the difference of a few weeks vital growth from the point of tail absorption. Growth and subsequent storage of converted proteins to sugars that would have cushioned the shock of transportation and the changes of environment. ​ 
To grab for the dictionary and to refer to terms and conditions, speaks loudly about a breeders commitment to turn over cash and a lot less than any concern for animal welfare. While it is true that sound advice was offered and provided, I maintain these poor creatures were too young to be treated and shipped in such an uncontrolled manner. ​ 
On the other hand the albino clawed toed African, did extremely well and the males in that shipment successfully bred with my mature females. Hardier and more mature specimens.​ 
The greatest shame of this incident was the treatment I felt I received as a customer. Had we been able to resolve this amicably, more of my cash would be swelling your coffers and I would have happily recommended your services to others.​ 
I will end with your feedback comments on me before these frogs died, as you have quoted my feedback that i left for you the day of receipt.​ 
*Fast payment, good communication, a pleasure to deal with* 15-08-2008, 03:49 PM​


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