# Dog Training



## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

Hi there

Do any of you guys know if its bad to walk a puppy.... i have read a few parts on other forums saying that walking a puppy too much can damage the bones n stuff?

Apparently its best to play with a puppy instead of walk it to much.... but how much is to much.

I remember there being some serious dog people on here... so any help greatly apppreciated.

Cheers

Rob


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

They can walk but only for short periods I was told its 5 mins for every month of age... I cant remember where though
Too much exercise puts strain on their muscles etc, plus puppies need lots of sleep too as they're putting lots of energy into growing... and believe me they grow FAST... Im sure someone has been feeding our rottweiler puppy miracle grow...:flrt:


Im sure if im wrong at all someone more experienced will correct me..: victory:


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## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

Yeah im sure you must be about right then..... so 5 minutes for every month.

Got a beagle cross puppie that im gonna collect on sunday.... so walking is gonna become a very current occurence. But i will hold of the big ones till she is older.

Thanks Very much


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> Yeah im sure you must be about right then..... so 5 minutes for every month.
> 
> Got a beagle cross puppie that im gonna collect on sunday.... so walking is gonna become a very current occurence. But i will hold of the big ones till she is older.
> 
> Thanks Very much


Awwww how cute! You will have to post up lots of piccys! :flrt:
I try to go to different places on each walk with our Lexi so its interesting but also she gets used to different situations, be it town, dog friendly shops, countryside, parks, around different animals like horses and sheep, round the block, in the car etc etc. Dont rush the little one though it can all get a little overwealming (sp) for them sometimes so its handy if your not too far from home or the car where they learn to use as a safe zone


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

Have to be especially careful with walking times in large breed puppies, or dogs that are prone to bone/joint problems but I have not used a system ie 5min for every month. I make sure whilst under 6 months that its walks no longer than 15 min, and only light walking, not running about, and on good flat terrain. Above 6 months I go for longer and letting them run harder, bit of running them on the lead but , again on good terrain and just not too much. A year old I begin to stop worrying and by this time were doing long walks and alowing the dog to do what he wants on most terrains and by 18months I can start to work the dog hard, running, jumping for long periods.


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

The 5 min for every month is a good rule of thumb. Unless you have a smelly bassett hound that refuses to walk more than 10 metres, lazy git!


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> Have to be especially careful with walking times in large breed puppies, or dogs that are prone to bone/joint problems but I have not used a system ie 5min for every month. I make sure whilst under 6 months that its walks no longer than 15 min, and only light walking, not running about, and on good flat terrain. Above 6 months I go for longer and letting them run harder, bit of running them on the lead but , again on good terrain and just not too much. A year old I begin to stop worrying and by this time were doing long walks and alowing the dog to do what he wants on most terrains and by 18months I can start to work the dog hard, running, jumping for long periods.


Sorry but just have to say it... you Presa is GORGEOUS! :mf_dribble::flrt:



Ragmoth said:


> The 5 min for every month is a good rule of thumb. Unless you have a smelly bassett hound that refuses to walk more than 10 metres, lazy git!


:rotfl:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Ragmoth said:


> The 5 min for every month is a good rule of thumb. Unless you have a smelly bassett hound that refuses to walk more than 10 metres, lazy git!


 
my uncle has one of them great aint they :2thumb::lol2:


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## MissHayho (Mar 17, 2007)

when Cooper was a lil puppy we used to walk him but he didnt walk for long he used to sit down and refuse to move- he learnt if he did that i would pick him up and carry him. He'd never refuse to walk now though!! LOL


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## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

Well just a quick update for everyone.... was heading down to yorkshire to get my beagle x puppy when i get a phone call to say she had sold it.... what a biatch.

Anyway... got contacted by a lady on sunday to see if i wanted to come see some german shepherd puppies. 

And i got one... her names Mia, she is 7 weeks old. Her mum and Dad are police dogs... and i love her.


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> Well just a quick update for everyone.... was heading down to yorkshire to get my beagle x puppy when i get a phone call to say she had sold it.... what a biatch.
> 
> Anyway... got contacted by a lady on sunday to see if i wanted to come see some german shepherd puppies.
> 
> And i got one... her names Mia, she is 7 weeks old. Her mum and Dad are police dogs... and i love her.


OMG what a complete and utter cowbag! I hate people like that... but hey your puppy is to die for! look at those ears! Shes lovely! :flrt:


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

aww, what a gorgeous puppy she is!!!


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

Aww, love GSD's.

In regards to your initial question, I went off to another forum I use, specifically for presa's, which is home to the UK's best breeders of Presa's, and these breeders general opinion is that the thing about ''over-walking'' a pup is mostly nonsense that breeders of poor quality animals use to cover their arses.

Note, their words, not mine!!


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> Aww, love GSD's.
> 
> In regards to your initial question, I went off to another forum I use, specifically for presa's, which is home to the UK's best breeders of Presa's, and these breeders general opinion is that the thing about ''over-walking'' a pup is mostly nonsense that breeders of poor quality animals use to cover their arses.
> 
> Note, their words, not mine!!



Over walking and over exercising a larger breed pup can damage the joints and cause the pup to become leggy and lose bone. The five minutes rule is used by any good breeders I know


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## eightsnake (Jul 20, 2007)

A lot depends on the breeding, smaller breeds mature at much earlier ages than the large breeds.
I would say that the 5 mins per month rule is pretty good and then when you get to a year you are pretty much ok to increase.

Small dogs can be full grown by about 8-9 months so I would say can exercise normally by then.

I would always err on the cautious side though as sprains and strains can take ages to heal properly.

Lorraine


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

We got our JRT before I took to internet forums for advice and we walked and ran him from an early age. He used to come running with me when I was fit and follow us on bike rides etc for hours when he was under a year old. He seems ok and is fit and healthy at the age of 4 but I suppose joint problems wont show till later on in life.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

When it comes to large breed dogs it can get a bit confusing. As far as it goes with Great Danes, the five minute rule is applied but its really about the individual dog. 
Its best to let them just have free access to a garden if possible and just let them decide when theyre tired. 
Once my dogs are about 6 months old theyre usually running around mad and out for hours at a time. None of my dogs, Great Danes or GSDs had hip/joint problems.


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## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks guys


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Rob Wallace said:


> Well just a quick update for everyone.... was heading down to yorkshire to get my beagle x puppy when i get a phone call to say she had sold it.... what a biatch.
> 
> Anyway... got contacted by a lady on sunday to see if i wanted to come see some german shepherd puppies.
> 
> And i got one... her names Mia, she is 7 weeks old. Her mum and Dad are police dogs... and i love her.


Expect a text.


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## fergie (Oct 27, 2007)

With all the pups I have had in my time, a fifteen minute walk in the morning and then a fifteen minute walk in the evening is what I've always went by with, no adverse effects on any of the dogs.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I've always had large breeds, labrador, Afghan Hounds, GSDs and I was always told never to "force exercise" a young puppy. 

In other words allow the puppy to exercise itself in the garden as much as it chooses, but if actually taking it for a walk, then only a very short walk to socialise and lead train, but no more. so the advice on here sounds good. 5 minutes per month sounds excellent advice to me.

The big breeds have so much growing to do, compared to the smaller breeds, so you mustn't rush them into long walks and heavy exercise, otherwise they could pay the price in their growth and development.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Totally agree with Feorag. My friend has always had GSD she breeds and used to show. She has 9 at the minute and a litter of pups. I went to a seminar with her about Hip dysplasia and joint problems caused by diet and exercise. The 5 minute rule is not rubbish. Over excercising a large breed puppy is detrimental to its future health. Gentle excercise with short lead walks to socialise and train to start with no mile hikes please until they are around the 10/12 months mark


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

Someone local to me was trying to get rid of a rottie not long back. Someone took this dog into their home thinking it was perfectly healthy. After a quick checkup at the local vets it's ended up costing them alot of money because of some sort of problem with his hips. After asking the previous owners about what sort of exercise they did with the dog, turns out they took it on "long walks in the woods for miles, cos he enjoyed it" He's only 8 months old.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

JulieNoob said:


> Over walking and over exercising a larger breed pup can damage the joints and cause the pup to become leggy and lose bone. The five minutes rule is used by any good breeders I know


 
I agree entirely, the KC also reccommend the '5 mins per day per month of age' rule. 

It especially applies to large breeds, and those where the breed mean hip score isn't that great, like GSD's. Were the parents hip scored? 

It's important to socialise the pup well, but sitting with it next to a busy road, or outside a supermarket, or even in town will do that without over walking. 

I knowit's not what you asked, but a good book is Gwen Bailey's 'Perfect Puppy'. I usually give this out with my puppy packs.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I used to take my Afghan puppy out sitting at the bottom of my son's pram, even before she'd had her innoculations. It was a big coach built pram so very solid and sturdy, but she used to lie at the bottom and him at the top and I walked them along the length of the High Street where I lived so she was well used to being close to very noisy traffic and lots of people. Once she'd had her inoculations and could go on the ground she would walk down to the High Street - about a 5 minute walk, then sit in the pram and then walk back home again - best of both worlds! :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> Hi there
> 
> Do any of you guys know if its bad to walk a puppy.... i have read a few parts on other forums saying that walking a puppy too much can damage the bones n stuff?
> 
> ...


 a lot depends on the breed and the age.
Basically a little 8 weeks old pup can have a little amble for 5 minutes on the lead as part of training a couple of times a day. No long walks though. Imagine your pup is an 18 month old human child, would you be doing half mile walks with the child?
The larger the breed, the longer it takes before bones and ligaments are fully firmed up and strong. My large Ursa got no more than playing on my land for the first year and was never allowed to climb stairs etc. Now he is nearly 2 he gets to gallop across the fields a couple of times a week but can play on my land as much as he wants which isn't much. A quick glalop around the goat yard and he wants to lay down and rest but he is a giant breed after all. Generally the smaller breeds mature more quickly. What breed do you have and how old and what sort of walks are you on about? an amble around the park on the lead, or a 4 mile jog daily?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> Well just a quick update for everyone.... was heading down to yorkshire to get my beagle x puppy when i get a phone call to say she had sold it.... what a biatch.
> 
> Anyway... got contacted by a lady on sunday to see if i wanted to come see some german shepherd puppies.
> 
> And i got one... her names Mia, she is 7 weeks old. Her mum and Dad are police dogs... and i love her.


 the police breed dogs for sale?
Shame she was sold at 7 weeks though. She looks absolutely adorable though. Since she is a large breed you'll need to get her diet right in order to help her grow properly and be extra special careful with her walking times. At this young age, nothing more than lead training in the home and garden and playing etc I would say which is all she can have until she is fully innoculated.
What were the parents hip scores incidentally? Were they also tested for leukaemia, epilepsy, haemophilia? All prolific hereditary diseases in the breed aswell as a predisposition to pancreatitis, anal fununculitis and both hip and elbow displaysia but I'm sure you were aware of all that from when you researched the breed before you decided to get one.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

feorag said:


> I used to take my Afghan puppy out sitting at the bottom of my son's pram, even before she'd had her innoculations. It was a big coach built pram so very solid and sturdy, but she used to lie at the bottom and him at the top and I walked them along the length of the High Street where I lived so she was well used to being close to very noisy traffic and lots of people. Once she'd had her inoculations and could go on the ground she would walk down to the High Street - about a 5 minute walk, then sit in the pram and then walk back home again - best of both worlds! :lol2:



Weren't those big prams great with the dog bed underneath? Now all you see is flimsy buggies with no space to put the dog, or your shopping etc.:lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> Aww, love GSD's.
> 
> In regards to your initial question, I went off to another forum I use, specifically for presa's, which is home to the UK's best breeders of Presa's, and these breeders general opinion is that the thing about ''over-walking'' a pup is mostly nonsense that breeders of poor quality animals use to cover their arses.
> 
> Note, their words, not mine!!


 Shows what a lot of ignoramuses presa breeders are then :whistling2:
There is enough good scientific data around explaining why a young large breed pup's exersize should be managed. Just as these presa breeders would not allow a child of say 5 years old to try to carry the 15kg bags of dog food, in case of damaging ligaments , putting stress on young, developing bones, and straining young soft muscles, a large breed dog should get only carefully monitored exersize.
I have never breed poor quality animals. I breed only from adult, healthy, well rounded animals both physically and mentally. I have always had large or giant breeds and always been very careful about diet and exersize.
And both are important. I refused to feed Ursa on kibble because I don't believe it has the correct quality calcium, phosphorous and protein in. SO he ate mainly raw whole rabbits and cockerels with goats milk, fresh eggs and other stuff. Kibble was available aways but the bulk of his diet was whole raw dead animals. End result, he is not only big, but perfectly proportioned with excellent muscle, no fat at all on him and he can leap a 4 foot fence. Some feat for a heavy breed like him.
In town, I met someone with 2 pure newfies roughly the same age as Ursa. They'd been fed kibble from the start and allowed to exersize in the owners horse paddocks, run about together all day long. They are half the size of my Ursa and are very 'rangy' with not much bulk.
So my Newfoundland cross Rottweiller, has more bulk that 2 pure Newfoundlands. That isn't how it's supposed to be at all and I firmly believe that kibble diet plus too much exersize has stunted them.
No shire horse breeder would dream of getting a yearling to pull heavy carts all day long or plough like an adult at the top of it's strength can do, so why is it different with large dogs which are only babies still?


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Shows what a lot of ignoramuses presa breeders are then :whistling2:
> There is enough good scientific data around explaining why a young large breed pup's exersize should be managed. Just as these presa breeders would not allow a child of say 5 years old to try to carry the 15kg bags of dog food, in case of damaging ligaments , putting stress on young, developing bones, and straining young soft muscles, a large breed dog should get only carefully monitored exersize.
> I have never breed poor quality animals. I breed only from adult, healthy, well rounded animals both physically and mentally. I have always had large or giant breeds and always been very careful about diet and exersize.
> And both are important. I refused to feed Ursa on kibble because I don't believe it has the correct quality calcium, phosphorous and protein in. SO he ate mainly raw whole rabbits and cockerels with goats milk, fresh eggs and other stuff. Kibble was available aways but the bulk of his diet was whole raw dead animals. End result, he is not only big, but perfectly proportioned with excellent muscle, no fat at all on him and he can leap a 4 foot fence. Some feat for a heavy breed like him.
> ...


I agree with you fenwoman, i young pup shouldnt be over exerting themselves, and I was surprised at the response I got over there seeing as they are well thought of breeders. Iv never really gone by a rule like the one people talk about here but have limited the activity my pup does, but he's just about hit 12 months now so he'll get a bit more from now on.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

rakpeterson said:


> I agree with you fenwoman, i young pup shouldnt be over exerting themselves, and I was surprised at the response I got over there seeing as they are well thought of breeders. Iv never really gone by a rule like the one people talk about here but have limited the activity my pup does, but he's just about hit 12 months now so he'll get a bit more from now on.


 I think that the 5 minute per month is a prety good guideline inasmuch as when someone asks "how much is too much" it can be used to get a sort of rough ballpark idea. I mean, to a person who does say a 7 mile hike daily, the term 'light exersize only' might mean a short 2 mile walk, and to a couch potato who struggles to walk to the end of the street and back, a slow amble to the front gate might be interpreted as 'not much'. So if you can give a guideline of some kind, it gives everyone an idea of what is something suitable to aim for.
I've never used it per se but then my dogs generally don't get much proper on lead walking. For a start with 18 it's a bit difficult, I'd have to do them in relays and it'd take so much time, I'd never get anything else done, plus I have land so they get as much playtime as they want whenever they want. I do take the bigger ones and those more in need of a longer gallop for a good half mile flat out and occasionally load the car up with the little ones for a 10 minute amble just to give them a change of scene but if I had to clip a lead on and physically walk my dogs, I would find the guide useful if I didn't know about what was suitable.
In addition, since my back condition became too bad, I have been unable to stride out across the fens for miles and miles and stay out for hours like I used to 2 decades ago. My legs are still capable but sadly, my spine won't keep me upright. So it's mainly on my land or in the car and off to the riverbank and open fenland.
They gallop, I amble and I can sit on the bank and watch the herons, swans and the like when my back hurts, until Chalky decides to swim, and Ursa, the newfoundland cross, panics at the waters edge and dibbles his toes in, wanting to 'save' his little pal, but to much of a big scaredy to do what his webbed feet were designed for.
Tsk!....dogs eh?:roll:


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I think that the 5 minute per month is a prety good guideline inasmuch as when someone asks "how much is too much" it can be used to get a sort of rough ballpark idea. I mean, to a person who does say a 7 mile hike daily, the term 'light exersize only' might mean a short 2 mile walk, and to a couch potato who struggles to walk to the end of the street and back, a slow amble to the front gate might be interpreted as 'not much'. So if you can give a guideline of some kind, it gives everyone an idea of what is something suitable to aim for.
> I've never used it per se but then my dogs generally don't get much proper on lead walking. For a start with 18 it's a bit difficult, I'd have to do them in relays and it'd take so much time, I'd never get anything else done, plus I have land so they get as much playtime as they want whenever they want. I do take the bigger ones and those more in need of a longer gallop for a good half mile flat out and occasionally load the car up with the little ones for a 10 minute amble just to give them a change of scene but if I had to clip a lead on and physically walk my dogs, I would find the guide useful if I didn't know about what was suitable.
> In addition, since my back condition became too bad, I have been unable to stride out across the fens for miles and miles and stay out for hours like I used to 2 decades ago. My legs are still capable but sadly, my spine won't keep me upright. So it's mainly on my land or in the car and off to the riverbank and open fenland.
> They gallop, I amble and I can sit on the bank and watch the herons, swans and the like when my back hurts, until Chalky decides to swim, and Ursa, the newfoundland cross, panics at the waters edge and dibbles his toes in, wanting to 'save' his little pal, but to much of a big scaredy to do what his webbed feet were designed for.
> Tsk!....dogs eh?:roll:


A newfie rott that doesn't swim? That's crazy, both breeds are water lovers eh?!

Do you think that's why my Sid is lanky and gangly then? over exercise as a pup? I was told by the vet that the barf diet i had him on caused his over grown bones and his shoulder dysplasia (which has now magically disappeared!)


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

abisnail said:


> A newfie rott that doesn't swim? That's crazy, both breeds are water lovers eh?!
> 
> Do you think that's why my Sid is lanky and gangly then? over exercise as a pup? I was told by the vet that the barf diet i had him on caused his over grown bones and his shoulder dysplasia (which has now magically disappeared!)


 What breed is Sid? Perhaps he is supposed to be gangly :lol2:
Generally over exersize in one of the giant breeds stops them becoming as well built and large as they should be because their strength goes into the energy they need for the effort, instead of into growing big strong bones with strong ligaments.
Yes, Ursa is a sore disappointment to me in the swimming department since most of my previous dogs have been keen swimmers. Chalky even breaks ice to swim as did my giant schnauzers and standard poodles.
My lurchers have never really been keen and the one time I had a mini dachshund it was a flipping nightmare as he was shaped like a submarine and swam like one. His back end would start sinking slowly, and, like the Titanic, he slipped under the water stern first,but with panic in his eyes. After throwing myself into a pond in the middle of December to save him, he was kept on the lead near water from then on. Walking home with icy wet clothes on, wasn't a lot of fun and no matter how much he loved to jump in and start paddling, it just wasn't happening.
Chalky is a great little water terrier and hurls himself off the top of the bank, flying some 20 feet through the air to land with an almighty splash. In summer, he usually tried to find the slimiest smelliest stretch of water. But Ursa, he just paddles at the edge and cries and looks worried. Flipping dope!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Karla my GSD loves water if you throw something in and it sinks she happily dives to retrieve it swimming underwater until she finds something to pick up. Im so glad she has excellent recall as shes had near misses when the local geese and swans have tried to attack her. My Rotties adores the hose pipe but hes not been swimming yet


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Weren't those big prams great with the dog bed underneath? Now all you see is flimsy buggies with no space to put the dog, or your shopping etc.:lol2:


I loved mine, but the puppy was in the top with the baby, just at the bottom beside his feet and my hands so I could reassure her and make sure she didn't jump out - not that she ever tried! 

But those were the days when they built proper prams!!


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> What breed is Sid? Perhaps he is supposed to be gangly :lol2:
> Generally over exersize in one of the giant breeds stops them becoming as well built and large as they should be because their strength goes into the energy they need for the effort, instead of into growing big strong bones with strong ligaments.
> Yes, Ursa is a sore disappointment to me in the swimming department since most of my previous dogs have been keen swimmers. Chalky even breaks ice to swim as did my giant schnauzers and standard poodles.
> My lurchers have never really been keen and the one time I had a mini dachshund it was a flipping nightmare as he was shaped like a submarine and swam like one. His back end would start sinking slowly, and, like the Titanic, he slipped under the water stern first,but with panic in his eyes. After throwing myself into a pond in the middle of December to save him, he was kept on the lead near water from then on. Walking home with icy wet clothes on, wasn't a lot of fun and no matter how much he loved to jump in and start paddling, it just wasn't happening.
> Chalky is a great little water terrier and hurls himself off the top of the bank, flying some 20 feet through the air to land with an almighty splash. In summer, he usually tried to find the slimiest smelliest stretch of water. But Ursa, he just paddles at the edge and cries and looks worried. Flipping dope!


Sid is a rottweiler, with papers but everyone thinks he's crossed with a doberman or a great dane, he's very tall and lanky, he suffers with colitis, which causes his weight to fluctuate now and again, but he generally has a skinny waist and looong legs. 

You should enter Chalky in some dash and splash competitions!

YouTube - Dash n Splash


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Well there are some tall Rotties around aren't there? Not all are built low to the ground and like tanks. What were his parents like? Don't they call the taller ones the German strain or something?
I love the breed and it was a toss up between getting one or my other fave breed the newfie, when I saw Ursa advertised,. It seemed the perfect opportunity to own the 2 combined. On the whole I am very pleased indeed and all who have met him , love him for his great size plus his superb temperament.
Looking at the videos on youtube, I reckon my Chalky would be a champion dasher and splasher. I wonder if they hold those comps over here. But I'd have to leave Ursa at home as he'd be a flipping nervous wreck by the end of the day. I think he's convinced himself that Chalky is drowning when he's in the water. One day I have a feeling that his love for Chalky will overcome his fear of water and he'll go in to 'help' him out.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My Rottie Kye is a taller leaner version than a lot you see. his mother and father were the same, he comes from a long line of obediance champions but I think he missed the boat as Bless him hes a bit dim:lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Karla my GSD loves water if you throw something in and it sinks she happily dives to retrieve it swimming underwater until she finds something to pick up. Im so glad she has excellent recall as shes had near misses when the local geese and swans have tried to attack her. My Rotties adores the hose pipe but hes not been swimming yet


Amber, Barry's GSD was exactly the same and would dive in and swim underwater at every opportunity. Leo, my GSD sadly was a wimp and paddled happily, but stood and wailed when Amber got out too deep for him to follow him!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> My Rottie Kye is a taller leaner version than a lot you see. his mother and father were the same, he comes from a long line of obediance champions but I think he missed the boat as Bless him hes a bit dim:lol2:


Awww bless 'im. Perhaps he is more practical than intellectual. I bet he could hold on to a burglar or look mean and menacing if he thought he needed to defend you. More of a Grant Mitchell than a Stephen Hawkins eh?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

feorag said:


> Amber, Barry's GSD was exactly the same and would dive in and swim underwater at every opportunity. Leo, my GSD sadly was a wimp and paddled happily, but stood and wailed when Amber got out too deep for him to follow him!


Imagine Leo and Ursa watching Amber and Chalky at the dash and splash competition? They'd be panicking and crying in a nerve wracked duet.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Well there are some tall Rotties around aren't there? Not all are built low to the ground and like tanks. What were his parents like? Don't they call the taller ones the German strain or something?
> I love the breed and it was a toss up between getting one or my other fave breed the newfie, when I saw Ursa advertised,. It seemed the perfect opportunity to own the 2 combined. On the whole I am very pleased indeed and all who have met him , love him for his great size plus his superb temperament.
> Looking at the videos on youtube, I reckon my Chalky would be a champion dasher and splasher. I wonder if they hold those comps over here. But I'd have to leave Ursa at home as he'd be a flipping nervous wreck by the end of the day. I think he's convinced himself that Chalky is drowning when he's in the water. One day I have a feeling that his love for Chalky will overcome his fear of water and he'll go in to 'help' him out.


 
I never saw his parents, he's a preloved pup! 
I was told he has american lines, but the vet and a show judge I once met seemed to think it was down to something I had done (I've had him since he was 5 months old)
As for Chalky, yes, they have only recently brought it here and it's called jettydogs! My friend is thinking of putting her mental collie X lurcher in for some comps in the summer. 
They had it at the all about dogs exhibition this year, looks much fun but Sid isn't brave enough unless he can paddle in!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Awww bless 'im. Perhaps he is more practical than intellectual. I bet he could hold on to a burglar or look mean and menacing if he thought he needed to defend you. More of a Grant Mitchell than a Stephen Hawkins eh?


 
TBH I think he would clean up the mess leaving Karla to do the dirty work:lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

abisnail said:


> I never saw his parents, he's a preloved pup!
> I was told he has american lines, but the vet and a show judge I once met seemed to think it was down to something I had done (I've had him since he was 5 months old)
> As for Chalky, yes, they have only recently brought it here and it's called jettydogs! My friend is thinking of putting her mental collie X lurcher in for some comps in the summer.
> They had it at the all about dogs exhibition this year, looks much fun but Sid isn't brave enough unless he can paddle in!


Did you get his paperwork with him?


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

Yeah, his great grandad was a gamegards rottweiler! He's related to the omen dogs! He's famoosh!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

There ya go then. Google some of the names on his pedigree to see if you can see some imges. That's where you might find your tall lines.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

I think I tried that a few years back and only came up with the gamegards breeders, might have another go when I've got a spare half hour. 
Cheers mrs....would hate to think he's gangly because of me! :blush:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Awww bless 'im. Perhaps he is more practical than intellectual. I bet he could hold on to a burglar or look mean and menacing if he thought he needed to defend you. More of a Grant Mitchell than a Stephen Hawkins eh?


:hmm: Let me think!!! Hmmm..... no! He'd be the one hiding in the cupboard while Amber took the burglar on! Amber was frightened of nothing, Leo was frightened of his own shadow, bless him. You couldn't raise your voice to him until he was about 3 years old, otherwise he'd think he was in trouble and pee himself! :lol2:

And although it sounds awful and I don't mean it to be awful, but the best thing for him was when we lost Amber and he became for the first time in his life a dog on his own with no other dog to hide behind. His personality and confidence bloomed beyond compare and he became much braver.............but he still wouldn't swim!!

I used to take him to my friend's farm where she had a fairly shallow stream with one deep area where her 2 labradors would do the "dash and splash" and he would stand crying on the bankside!



fenwoman said:


> Imagine Leo and Ursa watching Amber and Chalky at the dash and splash competition? They'd be panicking and crying in a nerve wracked duet.


:roll2MSL - you are so right!!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

abisnail said:


> I never saw his parents, he's a preloved pup!
> I was told he has american lines, but the vet and a show judge I once met seemed to think it was down to something I had done (I've had him since he was 5 months old)
> As for Chalky, yes, they have only recently brought it here and it's called jettydogs! My friend is thinking of putting her mental collie X lurcher in for some comps in the summer.
> They had it at the all about dogs exhibition this year, looks much fun but Sid isn't brave enough unless he can paddle in!


Out of interest, is he neutered and what age was he neutered? Neutering early affects the closing of the growth plates, which canresult in a taller lankier dog. There is a rottie near me that was neutered at 6 months and is very tall and lanky. His un-neutered litter brother is not. Of coouse, maybe they would have been different anyway.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

midori said:


> Out of interest, is he neutered and what age was he neutered? Neutering early affects the closing of the growth plates, which canresult in a taller lankier dog. There is a rottie near me that was neutered at 6 months and is very tall and lanky. His un-neutered litter brother is not. Of coouse, maybe they would have been different anyway.


Very young, at 5 months old as soon as they dropped they were off! I now realise this may have been a mistake...the dog show judge mentioned early neutering as a cause of 'lankiness' but at the time I was doing what I thought was best.
Some vets give S**T advice.


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

I grew up with a GSD, and now have my own GSD pup and a border collie 

We were always advised to walk them a little each day as soon as possible merely to get the used to traffic/people/dogs/being on a lead (this is scary for a lot of pups!) but with bigger breed dogs with common joint problems to limit it to a few minutes a day until they were bigger. 

We have always took them for a short walk each day and upped it a little at a time as they grew, avoiding walking too far too soon, running, jumping on and off things (eg in and out of a car) and using stairs, as these are all things that _could_ cause damage to the joints or up the chances of hip dysplasia. 

I think if you don't walk your dog at all as a pup then it might be quite difficult to cope with when you do (especially with something that could get quite big and strong!) as all the new experiences will be quite scary and stressful for the dog.

Good luck with your pup, she is gorgeous by the way! (i have such a soft spot for GSDs!) :flrt:

Here's ours when he was a pup...



















He's 9 months old now, and he's changed so much!!!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

abisnail said:


> Very young, at 5 months old as soon as they dropped they were off! I now realise this may have been a mistake...the dog show judge mentioned early neutering as a cause of 'lankiness' but at the time I was doing what I thought was best.
> Some vets give S**T advice.


 
That's maybe why then. It shouldn't be a problem, and not sure how old he is now, but there is a link with hip dysplacia aswell with early neutering. 

I agree about vets, their main reason for early neutering, or neutering at all is to stop unwanted litters, but responsible ownership and management stop that in entire animals. They fail to inform people of the possible negatives of neutering and early neutering. At least, I have never met or heard of a vet who lets peopel know the negatives aswell as the positives and I think people should make an informed decision.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*Fraggle* all GSD Pups are so cute but yours is stunning. Maybe in the future when some of my oldies have gone I will invest in a White GSD pup. My friend who breeds and shows GSD will be horrified :lol2Show people dont do whites or Blues) What a sweetie. Any up to date photos:2thumb:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> *Fraggle* all GSD Pups are so cute but yours is stunning. Maybe in the future when some of my oldies have gone I will invest in a White GSD pup. My friend who breeds and shows GSD will be horrified :lol2Show people dont do whites or Blues) What a sweetie. Any up to date photos:2thumb:


I know i can't believe they don't show them, they're gorgeous!! They don't know what they're missing (i'm not biased, honest!)

Took me ages to find a white one. Poor thing was about to go to the RSPCA- the breeder died and his dogs and 2 pups were kinda ditched on his son (who was already overrun with kids and his own ollllld GSD in a flat, with no room. How could i say no? 

What dogs do you have?


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

This is him in September, nothing more up to date yet cos my camera has vanished :s I'll get some as soon as i find it!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

1 GSD
1 Rottie
2 Cavalier King Charles
2 Lurchers
1 Springer x
1 Staffie X
1 Yorkie x
1 Poodle
1 Patterdale x
Bit of a mixture but all rescues except for my GSD and Rottie. Here is a pic of when I had my 3 GSD, sadly my old girl was PTS last year then my young male died suddenly so now only have Karla


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Nes gorgeous and so is your Border Collie:flrt:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

Awww u have loads! Those GSDs are beautiful. The one i grew up with was pts last year- i was so upset. He made it to 17 mind, even though when my mom begged the kennels to let her take him at 8 weeks he was about to be put down cos he had calcium deficiency- they said he wouldnt make a couple of years! He was a bit wobbly on his legs for a few months and got very weak at a couple of points cos he was the runt, but mom looked after him, fed him by syringe until he was ok and a few months later you would never have known there was ever anything wrong with him


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fraggle said:


> This is him in September, nothing more up to date yet cos my camera has vanished :s I'll get some as soon as i find it!!


:flrt: :flrt: :flrt: :flrt: 

He's gorgeous - there's just something about a GSD head, irrespective of colour that gets me every time!!

I remember I watched a film over 20 years ago about a White GSD. I couldn't remember much of the story or the name of the film, but remembered it starred Kristy McNicol and that it made me cry buckets - I can still remembered how much I ached for that poor dog - he was absolutely stunning.

I've just done a search on the IMDb database and it was made in 1982 and called "White Dog". It was about a white Alsation who'd been trained to attack and kill people with black skin. Kristy played a girl who rescued it after she hit it with her car and tried to get a dog trainer to re-train it to stop attacking people. So sad!! IMDb Video: White Dog

Anyone else see it?


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

feorag said:


> :flrt: :flrt: :flrt: :flrt:
> 
> He's gorgeous - there's just something about a GSD head, irrespective of colour that gets me every time!!
> 
> ...


weird! a racist doggy? how mean!!!
im gonna have a look 4 it, i love white gsds, no matter how evil lol


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fraggle said:


> up the chances of hip dysplasia.


 Nothing can up the chances of getting hip displaysia. They don't get it, they are born with it because their parents had it. If only people who buy predisposed breeds (like GSD) would ask the breeders for the parents hip scores and insist on seeing the certificates instead of taking their word for it.Mind you, if I was buying a GSD, I would be insisting that the pup I bought came from parents which were not only hip and elbow scored, but haemophilia tested, and leukaemia tested aswell as coming from a line with no epilepsy in it since these are all prevalent in the breed.



> I think if you don't walk your dog at all as a pup then it might be quite difficult to cope with when you do (especially with something that could get quite big and strong!) as all the new experiences will be quite scary and stressful for the dog.


This is where puppy socilisation classes are useful and lead training in the home and garden will be sufficient to cope with pulling issues.
Not one of my dogs was walked near traffic, nor did they get daily lead training out and about in fact most get no special lead training at all. I put a lead on them at some point, they resist, I insist, and they do as they are told because I'm in charge lol.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fraggle said:


> weird! a racist doggy? how mean!!!
> im gonna have a look 4 it, i love white gsds, no matter how evil lol


Well it's a very sad film, if you can get a copy of it because his anti-racist training has a negative effect on him, so it's not the solution.

Did you click on the link and watch the trailer! He was some beautiful dog.

On the subject of films and GSDs (which is nothing to do with this thread and for which I apologise to the OP) did you ever watch K9. l loved that film - that dog, Jerry Lee, was so much like our Amber, it really made me laugh - especially the frisbee on the beach scene, cos that's exactly what our Amber would have done! :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> That's maybe why then. It shouldn't be a problem, and not sure how old he is now, but there is a link with hip dysplacia aswell with early neutering.


Since hip displaysia is a genetic condition the dog is born with, I cannot see how neutering early or late can have any effect on the depth of the hip socket. Whatever depth and shape the hip socket is when the dog is born, it doesn't alter because of neutering or anything else.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> *Fraggle* all GSD Pups are so cute but yours is stunning. Maybe in the future when some of my oldies have gone I will invest in a White GSD pup. My friend who breeds and shows GSD will be horrified :lol2Show people dont do whites or Blues) What a sweetie. Any up to date photos:2thumb:


 You would go out and deliberately buy a mismarked dog Shell? I am horrified. That's as bad as people paying over the odds for my little designer crossbreds hehe


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Since hip displaysia is a genetic condition the dog is born with, I cannot see how neutering early or late can have any effect on the depth of the hip socket.


Nor me!


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> You would go out and deliberately buy a mismarked dog Shell? I am horrified. That's as bad as people paying over the odds for my little designer crossbreds hehe


Oi! you leave cutesy white gsds alone, ya bully!! lol!

Im off to nose at your posts now to find pics of your dogs, hehe! :flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Yes Pam I would. Some dont appeal as they have a yelow tinge to them and look like GSD x Lab, not keen on them but Fraggles pup is gorgeous. I like the blues too but these are seen as extremely undesirable. I would of course make sure the parents were tested for everything too. I believe epilepsy is more common in the White Shepherds than Black/Gold or Sables.

And if I wanted another little dog and had room I would definately buy one of your cutesy pups


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Nothing can up the chances of getting hip displaysia. They don't get it, they are born with it because their parents had it. If only people who buy predisposed breeds (like GSD) would ask the breeders for the parents hip scores and insist on seeing the certificates instead of taking their word for it.Mind you, if I was buying a GSD, I would be insisting that the pup I bought came from parents which were not only hip and elbow scored, but haemophilia tested, and leukaemia tested aswell as coming from a line with no epilepsy in it since these are all prevalent in the breed.
> 
> ill rephrase then, these activities are all things vets/breeders etc warn about over causing problems in joints etc, although as you have just informed me, not hd. sorry!
> 
> annnnnd, i am _verrrry_ annoyed, after a good nosey through your threads i havent found any which say 'lots of pics of my dogs to drool over'. im very disappointed. there are lots on guinea pigs tho, and they just scare me- argh!!!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Yes Pam I would. Some dont appeal as they have a yelow tinge to them and look like GSD x Lab, not keen on them but Fraggles pup is gorgeous. I like the blues too but these are seen as extremely undesirable. I would of course make sure the parents were tested for everything too. I believe epilepsy is more common in the White Shepherds than Black/Gold or Sables.
> 
> And if I wanted another little dog and had room I would definately buy one of your cutesy pups


 I must admit that my ideal GSD would be a straight backed, long coated black and deep chestnut tan.(drool)
But I do have a passion for darker coloured dogs. In fact I don't like anything white, white dogs, cats, horses,chickens, and the like. Odd that I adore Saanen goats though isn't it?:flrt:
But a huge hairy black and tan boy GSD would be the one for me.Or a solid black mismarked one.
Look at the head on this one.








Flipping 'andsome.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fraggle said:


> fenwoman said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing can up the chances of getting hip displaysia. They don't get it, they are born with it because their parents had it. If only people who buy predisposed breeds (like GSD) would ask the breeders for the parents hip scores and insist on seeing the certificates instead of taking their word for it.Mind you, if I was buying a GSD, I would be insisting that the pup I bought came from parents which were not only hip and elbow scored, but haemophilia tested, and leukaemia tested aswell as coming from a line with no epilepsy in it since these are all prevalent in the breed.
> ...


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

theres an enormous pure black GSD at the top of our street- he's absolutely gorgeous  I'll try to steal him and send him over


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fraggle said:


> theres an enormous pure black GSD at the top of our street- he's absolutely gorgeous  I'll try to steal him and send him over


 Oh please don't LOL. 18 dogs is more than enough for me. Besides, I have a huge hairy black Ursa. Bigger than any GSD who would look tiny next to him and that would be a shame.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I forgot about Blacks:lol2: Maybe I should just have Ursa then you will have room for another 4 big dogs:whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I forgot about Blacks:lol2: Maybe I should just have Ursa then you will have room for another 4 big dogs:whistling2:


 And the flipping great dope would probably go with you too. He just loves everyone. The only problem is that where the big lad goes, little Chalky goes too cos they love each other. You happy with a BOGOF?:lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I like a bargain:no1: as long as he doesnt mind sleeping in the bed though. I bet Ursa is a real mummys boy :flrt:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Just to show you what you are missing hehe.








and is your bed big enough?








but he is a good dog sitter. At least the little ones sit on him.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

What a tease you are every time I look at Ursa I get a nice warm feeling, I think it must be love:flrt:


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

midori said:


> That's maybe why then. It shouldn't be a problem, and not sure how old he is now, but there is a link with hip dysplacia aswell with early neutering.
> 
> I agree about vets, their main reason for early neutering, or neutering at all is to stop unwanted litters, but responsible ownership and management stop that in entire animals. They fail to inform people of the possible negatives of neutering and early neutering. At least, I have never met or heard of a vet who lets peopel know the negatives aswell as the positives and I think people should make an informed decision.


 
Wicked, so much to look forward to!
I nursed him through colitis and got him back from shoulder dysplasia too, they reckon he'll have a shorter life from being so sick as a pup but who knows eh. Poor Sid vicious.


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

abisnail said:


> Wicked, so much to look forward to!
> I nursed him through colitis and got him back from shoulder dysplasia too, they reckon he'll have a shorter life from being so sick as a pup but who knows eh. Poor Sid vicious.


what they reckon isnt always right- the dog i grew up with was supposedly not going to make a couple of yrs old, being the runt of the litter, very weak and with major calcium deficiency. he was so weak and ill my mom fed and watered him by syringe for months, and he lived for 17 yrs  the kennels she had him from were about to put him down the day she begged them to let her try.

its surprising what they can get through!!!


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Oh please don't LOL. 18 dogs is more than enough for me. Besides, I have a huge hairy black Ursa. Bigger than any GSD who would look tiny next to him and that would be a shame.


*18???* blimey!!! i wouldnt fancy cleaning your lawn, lol!!! 
Ursa is gorgeous!!! His face just says "gimme a cuddle!!!!!" lol!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

My last GSD had a hip score of 2:1 and was from several generations of low hip scored dogs. His breeder kept a bitch from the litter but she had to be spayed because her hip score was bad.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

fraggle said:


> what they reckon isnt always right- the dog i grew up with was supposedly not going to make a couple of yrs old, being the runt of the litter, very weak and with major calcium deficiency. he was so weak and ill my mom fed and watered him by syringe for months, and he lived for 17 yrs  the kennels she had him from were about to put him down the day she begged them to let her try.
> 
> its surprising what they can get through!!!


 
Yeah, I try and look at the positive, he's very fit and healthy now, fingers crossed.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Since hip displaysia is a genetic condition the dog is born with, I cannot see how neutering early or late can have any effect on the depth of the hip socket. Whatever depth and shape the hip socket is when the dog is born, it doesn't alter because of neutering or anything else.


Most dogs with hip displaysia aren't born with it, it is caused by abnormal development of the socket joint, which the dog may be geneticaly predisposed to. It is thought that environmental factors such as over-exercise when young, going up and down stairs etc can contribute. 

Some info here:

Hip Dysplasia in Dogs: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention

Also, it is perfectly possible (and has happened) for parents with hip scores of 0:0 to produce a severely displaysic puppy. There is no guarantee, although obviously breeding from low scoring parents does reduce the risk, sadly it doesn't negate it. If only it did...


Some info on why early neutering can contribute to hip displaysia is here:

Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

a quick google will give plenty more info.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> What a tease you are every time I look at Ursa I get a nice warm feeling, I think it must be love:flrt:


Are you sure Dennis hasn't widdled in your slipper?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

fraggle said:


> *18???* blimey!!! i wouldnt fancy cleaning your lawn, lol!!!
> Ursa is gorgeous!!! His face just says "gimme a cuddle!!!!!" lol!


I don't have lawn I have land. picking up turds only takes half an hour or so with a latex glove on and dragging a feed sack behind me to put them in.They tend to crap in more or less the same area each time too which is helpful.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I must admit that my ideal GSD would be a straight backed, long coated black and deep chestnut tan.(drool)
> But I do have a passion for darker coloured dogs. In fact I don't like anything white, white dogs, cats, horses,chickens, and the like. Odd that I adore Saanen goats though isn't it?:flrt:
> But a huge hairy black and tan boy GSD would be the one for me.Or a solid black mismarked one.
> Look at the head on this one.
> ...


Would you like this one? This is the man himself, my Leo at about 4 months and 10 years old. His father was a solid black, his hips were excellent (sadly Barry bought Amber from a pet shop and his hips were dreadful and he was allergic to meat so not a healthy dog and he didn't make old bones),but Leo lived until he was 12 years old. He had a head like a big black bear!


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I don't have lawn I have land. picking up turds only takes half an hour or so with a latex glove on and dragging a feed sack behind me to put them in.They tend to crap in more or less the same area each time too which is helpful.


thats lucky. we have 2 which go somewhere completely different everytime, and the collie even tries so hide behind trees, benches... i swear he thinks its a treasure trail! might just get him some huggies :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

feorag said:


> Would you like this one? This is the man himself, my Leo at about 4 months and 10 years old. His father was a solid black, his hips were excellent (sadly Barry bought Amber from a pet shop and his hips were dreadful and he was allergic to meat so not a healthy dog and he didn't make old bones),but Leo lived until he was 12 years old. He had a head like a big black bear!


 That is exactly my idea of my dream GSD. What a simply stunning dog:flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Thank you so much ! I simply adored him and he was such a good shepherd. He protected everything that came into this house from all the other animals in it. When 2 of my boys were having a play fight he would get very agitated and step in between them to try and separate them, at which point at least one of them would both box his ears and he would regularly walk away with a cat hanging off his ruff!! :lol2: And he was excellent with the kittens - they used to use him as a step to get on and off the settee.

I don't think I'll ever get another one like him - we used to call him Nanny Welsh!

It's always good to know other people agree that he was a handsome boy, even if he was a bit of a wimp!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

As said before LEO really was a stunningly handsome boy:flrt: I much prefer the dark faced ones


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