# Cohabitating Dendrobates....



## BennReptiles (Jan 17, 2011)

Now i know most people will say "dont ever cohabitate" " you're going to need a gigantic tank" etc etc but hear me out....

Me and a few friends are creating a "discovery zone" at a local childrens farm where they can come and learn about animals and how different animals help the world work. We have snakes, lizards, worms, beetles, spiders, scorpions, tree frogs and i am wanting to get some dart frogs.

I want to have 9 frogs in total all living together, the 3 species i have in mind are _D. __leucomelas, D. tinctorius azureus and __D. auratus. _So i would have 2 males, 1 female of each species.I am hoping to build a custom tank roughly 3ft wide, 3ft deep and 4ft tall with a small pool, a waterfall and lots of ledges and different hides situated all over the tank.

Does this seem feesable at all? What problems would i have to keep an eye out for more than the obvious fighting, competition for food?

Also i was thinking about adding some white cloud minnows to the pool area.

Has anybody had any experience with this or anything like this before? all tips would be fantastic.

Many thanks,
Benn


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The reason you will be told no for those frogs is that all 3 listed are part of the tinctorius group, meaning that they are all genetically compatible and as such WILL breed together, producing mutts.

HOWEVER, pretty clear we're not talking about a hobbyist set up here, where offspring may be made available to others. So, and this is important, IF you never ever ever share the offspring with ANYBODY, either leaving them for ever in the enclosure, or destroying any eggs produced, then yes it can work. There are plenty of dutch people with conservatory sized vivs that house those 3 together fine.

Problems I can forsee? Well it's implied from your post that you have never ever kept dart frogs, so launching into a big display enclosure sounds to me like running before you can walk. :lol2:

Ade


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

be much easier if you just had a display full of males, then you dont have anything to worry about.
Shouldn't get any major fighting as it's generally the females that do the scrapping.


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

I like what you're trying to do, but IMO it should be done right, or not at all:

a) I doubt that many kids would be much more impressed by 3 spp of Dendrobates than they would be by one. If you think they would be, run three separate tanks.

b) The kids will probably think back to this experience if/when they decide to take on exotic animals of their own, so IMO their lasting recollection should be one of correct husbandry.

c) As alluded to in your question and the responses so far, there are any number of things that could go wrong and it is a real possibility that you could quickly end up with an empty viv - which is presumably not what you want from a financial or reputational perspective.

Nick


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm completely with Dr Nick here Benn,I would advocate 3 separate vivs too,I'd add in that there might be potential problems caused by mixing species that don't occur in the wild together,unknown pathogens,being my concern.If one was to mix then mix frogs that naturally co habit.But Benn if I was to undertake that,I would have kept both species separately for at least a year so I really knew what each species needs, I would never go there though,as I can see no benefit for the frogs in having a mixed tank.

So many institutions mix dartfrogs when really they should to set a pristine example of how too keep them.Kids are influenced by what they see,the ones that fall in love with amphibians,don't need a rainbow box of frogs,they need you to set that example to them. They will get far more from well set up single species vivs it will still inspire them.
good luck

Stu


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

DrNick said:


> I like what you're trying to do, but IMO it should be done right, or not at all:
> 
> a) I doubt that many kids would be much more impressed by 3 spp of Dendrobates than they would be by one. If you think they would be, run three separate tanks.
> 
> ...





soundstounite said:


> I'm completely with Dr Nick here Benn,I would advocate 3 separate vivs too,I'd add in that there might be potential problems caused by mixing species that don't occur in the wild together,unknown pathogens,being my concern.If one was to mix then mix frogs that naturally co habit.But Benn if I was to undertake that,I would have kept both species separately for at least a year so I really knew what each species needs, I would never go there though,as I can see no benefit for the frogs in having a mixed tank.
> 
> *So many institutions mix dartfrogs when really they should to set a pristine example of how too keep them.Kids are influenced by what they see,the ones that fall in love with amphibians,don't need a rainbow box of frogs,they need you to set that example to them. They will get far more from well set up single species vivs it will still inspire them.
> good luck*
> ...


Although I don't keep darts, I do keep lots of other frogs and I majorly agree with the points raised above- I've lost count of the posts on this section saying "zoos do it/colleges do it/(random) public displays do it- why can't I?" As is also constantly stated on here, it sometimes *can* be done, but usually shouldn't. Benn, is there any way you can instead build a two or three-part enclosure as part of the same installation? That way you could have different species side-by-side, but safely kept apart.


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## BennReptiles (Jan 17, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> Although I don't keep darts, I do keep lots of other frogs and I majorly agree with the points raised above- I've lost count of the posts on this section saying "zoos do it/colleges do it/(random) public displays do it- why can't I?" As is also constantly stated on here, it sometimes can be done, but usually shouldn't. Benn, *is there any way you can instead build a two or three-part enclosure as part of the same installation? That way you could have different species side-by-side, but safely kept apart*.


We are looking into this now. Cheers for all the replies folks


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

I would also say if it is an educational thing have seperate units if possible so correct husbandry can be shown. Also that way you can actually allow the frogs to breed without having to destroy eggs, it will add an extra educational step and you're adding to the captive bred population at the same time. 

One thing though, maybe swap the auratus for a different species if you're going for separate tanks. Auratus are not mega outgoing so something bolder will be a plus for you so the kids actually see the frogs. Terribs maybe? Pums seem to be the most well know darts to non keepers, they seem to crop up in a lot of kids books about rainforests, maybe explore them as a possibility.


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