# Bearded Dragon set up



## holdie (May 13, 2015)

Hi All,

Looking to get a bearded dragon for my sons birthday and been around a few pet shops and done a bit of research on the tinterweb looking for a decent setup. I've seen several starter kits for around £200 - £230 which include a 4ft viv and all the essentials, however I priced up the following for around £216. I'm aware I'll still need the calcium and vitamin supplements, hide, decor and feeding and water bowls. Was going to let my son pick these things up when we have the viv setup ready for the bearded dragon. 

VE Repti-Home Large Beech vivarium
Komodo Mountable Ceramic Lamp Fixture 
White Python Ultra Slim Ceramic 150W
AR T5 D3plus Reptile Lamp 39W 34inches 
Lucky Reptile Thermometer Deluxe
Komodo Pulse Thermostat 600W
Arcadia Twin T5 Controller 24-39W 


A few questions people might be able to help me in the right direction:

1) Am I right in thinking the T5 UV lamps are better than the T8's? and are they worth the extra money?

2) Will a 150w ceramic bulb be sufficient to heat the viv to the required temp?

3) Will the above items be compatible with each other and work fine, or is it better to get ceramic bulbs, fittings and thermostats from the same manufacturer?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

holdie said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Looking to get a bearded dragon for my sons birthday and been around a few pet shops and done a bit of research on the tinterweb looking for a decent setup. I've seen several starter kits for around £200 - £230 which include a 4ft viv and all the essentials, however I priced up the following for around £216. I'm aware I'll still need the calcium and vitamin supplements, hide, decor and feeding and water bowls. Was going to let my son pick these things up when we have the viv setup ready for the bearded dragon.
> 
> ...


i think your definitely heading in the right direction all that stuff sounds really good. cant comments on the UV i usually use the exo terra bulbs 10%. now i dont keep beardies but i know my stuff and i am personally keeping a lizard that needs a much higher temp than them with a 150 watt ceramic only thing would say with them is to have them mounted on mesh in a cone instead of in the tank as they can burn very easily. ive tested the surface of my bulb at over 100c. thats a one of the best ways to do the temp. 

those fittings and stuff will work together fine ive got a komodo cone a aqua pet ceramic and a habistat thermostat running right now in front of me, it has worked for nearly a year now with no problems at 150f basking temp. there indestructible. 

the ceramic i use i get off ebay from hong kong the aqua pet ones there alot cheaper than the white python ones and as i said its been running at full capacity for a year now.


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

In regards to lighting I'm no pro but t5s are definitely better than t8s as they require less wattage and output greater amounts of light so more bang for your buck so to speak. However you will want a reflector and a slightly longer bulb to match your 4ft viv. all in one light kits are available though may be more expensive than what you have been looking at but I know swell stock one for four foot vivs. 
Arcadia Complete UV Light Kit: Desert | Swell Reptiles


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Dentts said:


> In regards to lighting I'm no pro but t5s are definitely better than t8s as they require less wattage and output greater amounts of light so more bang for your buck so to speak. However you will want a reflector and a slightly longer bulb to match your 4ft viv. all in one light kits are available though may be more expensive than what you have been looking at but I know swell stock one for four foot vivs.
> Arcadia Complete UV Light Kit: Desert | Swell Reptiles


you probably want to go with the one with a higher visible light output as you arent using a basking bulb, this is not a problem, i do that i think the ceramics are much better. UV and ceramic is what i use for my savannah monitors.


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> you probably want to go with the one with a higher visible light output as you arent using a basking bulb, this is not a problem, i do that i think the ceramics are much better. UV and ceramic is what i use for my savannah monitors.


Out of interest What would you recommend above 12%


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

now as i said before i dont keep these so i can only advise off of the animals that i have experienced. i personally think the higher the better, you cant really have too much UV lighting so i would go with a 12% or a 15%. the higher you go the slightly longer UV output you will get as you are probably aware that you need to change them once a year.


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

Totally agree I just hadn't seen anything higher than 12% is all, obviously haven't been looking hard enough :blush:


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

12 will be fine i think that they recommend a 10 and above for them so if you cant find one 12 is still a bit more than required. 2 secs ill have a look too


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

yeh i think your right 12 the highest i can find i too was sure that you could get 15. i might have mixed up the UV% with the wattage. no worries 12 the one you want anyway


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## Dentts (Mar 6, 2015)

kbonnington said:


> yeh i think your right 12 the highest i can find i too was sure that you could get 15. i might have mixed up the UV% with the wattage. no worries 12 the one you want anyway


no problem, I see a gap in the market KB I know f all about lights but we could be very wealthy or at the very least accumulate and impressive amount of debt


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

have a look at this 150W Black Infrared Ceramic Heat Emitter Lamp Bulb Reptile Coop Grow Incubator | eBay

its a ceramic for like 3 quid havent tried these though but ebay have a return policy

couldnt find the aqua pet ones i think i did spend bout a tenna on it


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## holdie (May 13, 2015)

Thanks for your comments and advice greatly appreciated.


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## Peach01 (May 5, 2015)

I'm no expert but I've mostly used Where Dragons Dwell care sheet and Hades Dragons Morph car sheet to prepare from my beardies morphs. Will be housing mine in 4x2x2 vivariums but I think you can get away with less if you can add a little safe climbing height. 

I'm going to be using a 40W basking lamp (One of the ones that simulate natural light) and UVB 10 tubes that stretch the length of the vivarium. The Repti-Sun ones are apparently very good because they produce high amount of UV-A as well as UV-B.

Going to be using Habistat Dimmers for temperature control and timer switches on the plug which I can change depending on the time of year. 

Hope this helps a little, check out one of the care sheets I mentioned - You can't go far wrong if your following these sheets - Both are very respected breeders in the beardy world.

Good luck with your new beardy, they're a lot of fun!

Mike


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## Peach01 (May 5, 2015)

I forgot to mention something that interested me too! Dragons Dwell suggest that you can use Oatbrand as a safe substrate option. That's oatbran (Not to be confused with Oatmeal or anything similiar) if you can get ahold of natural oatbrand it will be safe to eat for the bearded dragon and It's availible in abundance. Amazon sell 10KG bags and you may well be able to find them cheaper else where.

Mike


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## Peach01 (May 5, 2015)

Sorry that's Oatbran* not oatbrand


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Peach01 said:


> I'm no expert but I've mostly used Where Dragons Dwell care sheet and Hades Dragons Morph car sheet to prepare from my beardies morphs. Will be housing mine in 4x2x2 vivariums but I think you can get away with less if you can add a little safe climbing height.
> 
> I'm going to be using a 40W basking lamp (One of the ones that simulate natural light) and UVB 10 tubes that stretch the length of the vivarium. The Repti-Sun ones are apparently very good because they produce high amount of UV-A as well as UV-B.
> 
> ...


just a 40 watt your going to use? i would have thought you would want a matt or something in there too. youll get 90f fine with that but you need an extra 20f for a beardie. its allways best to go a bit higher watt than you need and set your stat up right, less work for your bulbs and therefore they last a bit longer.


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## Peach01 (May 5, 2015)

I'm using a 50W at the moment, you can use higher with a dimmer and like mentioned above It will still have the same effect. 

Dragons Well use 40W basking bulbs, quite a few other breeders tend to go for this wattage too but that's not to say you couldn't use higher ofcourse. Just as long as the basking point is about 37-38 or so and the cool end is 27-28 

Many people tend to stay clear for mats for beardys, I'm no expect on this but several people seem to think it doesn't do them any good.

Mike


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## dinosaur lou (May 14, 2015)

holdie said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Looking to get a bearded dragon for my sons birthday and been around a few pet shops and done a bit of research on the tinterweb looking for a decent setup. I've seen several starter kits for around £200 - £230 which include a 4ft viv and all the essentials, however I priced up the following for around £216. I'm aware I'll still need the calcium and vitamin supplements, hide, decor and feeding and water bowls. Was going to let my son pick these things up when we have the viv setup ready for the bearded dragon.
> 
> ...


Hey , my beardie came with a 4ft viv and lights although I had to replace the lights (twice because I got the wrong one) I felt after buying all the rest of it it's cheaper to probably go around and add it all up singly 
So far with a viv and dragon included I'm nearly at £250 in costs this includes a vet bill however so that's only £214 I've spent not to mention the £30 I spent today on plants and thermostat etc etc 
Personally I wouldn't get a starter kit but if it saves you some time with the lights etc then I say go for it 
I think what's cost me the most money so far was the decor maybe I'm shopping at expensive pet shops lol


Good luck


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Peach01 said:


> I'm using a 50W at the moment, you can use higher with a dimmer and like mentioned above It will still have the same effect.
> 
> Dragons Well use 40W basking bulbs, quite a few other breeders tend to go for this wattage too but that's not to say you couldn't use higher ofcourse. Just as long as the basking point is about 37-38 or so and the cool end is 27-28
> 
> ...


well if your temps are right i cant really argue, 4 ft viv it doesn't seem like enough to me. whats your air temp in the hot end? im sure they would do better with a few basking sites leading up to 37-38 like alot of lizards, would be hard to do with just a basking bulb. 

matts are famous for overheating and just generally being crap, cant put nothing on them and from my experience ive had trouble getting the stat set up right with them. 
beardies do go underground and things in the wild which is why i think you need infrared, get the temp right in the burrow/ hides.


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## Jamie XVX (Nov 24, 2014)

Just to be clear: You absolutely can have too much UV. This is why Arcadia bother to produce to t8. This isn't a "worse" UV source, it's a lower level UV source, which is different.

For a bearded dragon you'd find it difficult to provide too much UV unless you have a leatherback/silkback or albino, or you start using non-reptile UV bulbs.

Also, make sure you stick with Arcadia bulbs and don't accidentally get any UV bulb for a pond - these contain UVC and will burn and/or blind your beardie.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Jamie XVX said:


> Just to be clear: You absolutely can have too much UV. This is why Arcadia bother to produce to t8. This isn't a "worse" UV source, it's a lower level UV source, which is different.
> 
> For a bearded dragon you'd find it difficult to provide too much UV unless you have a leatherback/silkback or albino, or you start using non-reptile UV bulbs.
> 
> Also, make sure you stick with Arcadia bulbs and don't accidentally get any UV bulb for a pond - these contain UVC and will burn and/or blind your beardie.


i have never heard of UV light poisoning in my life what are you going on about have you got some sort of reference to that?


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

hes not on about even using non reptile bulbs why is this relevant, uvc poisoning is something totally different. there aint any UVC in reptile bulbs


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## Jamie XVX (Nov 24, 2014)

kbonnington said:


> i have never heard of UV light poisoning in my life what are you going on about have you got some sort of reference to that?


Too much UVB leads to overproduction of vitamin D, which isn't harmful on it's own but leads to overabsorption of calcium which causes renal failure. You can't OD on calcium if there isn't too much vitamin D being produced, so if you're providing calcium supplements and you aren't exact in what you're providing then you can end up with very serious liver problems.

UVB is also the part of the UV light spectrum that causes sunburn and skin cancer. It does that to reptiles every bit as much as it does it to humans. You need to make sure your UV index is correct. Giving a nocturnal arboreal reptile that is evolved for low levels of UV absorption the same level of UV as a desert-dwelling diurnal species is most definitely not a good thing. As I said before, this is mostly a problem for reptiles with albinistic genes or thinner/smaller scales.

As far as UVC goes, you're right, no reptile bulbs include this. It's worth pointing out because some people new to the reptile world use pond UV instead of reptile UV. Especially when they're given advice about UV like "use as much as you can!"


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Jamie XVX said:


> Too much UVB leads to overproduction of vitamin D, which isn't harmful on it's own but leads to overabsorption of calcium which causes renal failure. You can't OD on calcium if there isn't too much vitamin D being produced, so if you're providing calcium supplements and you aren't exact in what you're providing then you can end up with very serious liver problems.
> 
> UVB is also the part of the UV light spectrum that causes sunburn and skin cancer. It does that to reptiles every bit as much as it does it to humans. You need to make sure your UV index is correct. Giving a nocturnal arboreal reptile that is evolved for low levels of UV absorption the same level of UV as a desert-dwelling diurnal species is most definitely not a good thing. As I said before, this is mostly a problem for reptiles with albinistic genes or thinner/smaller scales.
> 
> As far as UVC goes, you're right, no reptile bulbs include this. It's worth pointing out because some people new to the reptile world use pond UV instead of reptile UV. Especially when they're given advice about UV like "use as much as you can!"


this is still irrelevant the highest output of bulb is a 12% which is what you give to bearded dragons anyway, which is what i advised. im pretty sure its UVC that causes cancer and sunburn not UVB and unless hes giving it calcium and a d3 suppliment everyday it wont cause this problem anyway. this is a quote from another thread:

" i have been researching into this alot recently and from all off the evidence i've been able to gather this as my conclusion..reps are able to regulate the amount of calcium their body absorbs, therefore impossible to overdose on just calcium but the problems start when vit D is in diet aswell as this vitamin encourages your rep to absorb more calcium then it should which would eventually lead to a condition called hypercalcemia. just make sure your calcium is a pure one alot sold now if you look at list does have vit D in aswell...your vit powder will have vit D in but if given correctly will cause no probs (no more then 3 times weekly)..."

so unless hes doing a d3 supplement and too much UV it cant cause this problem. it also has more to do with how far the bulb is away from the basking site as the uv depletes and increases the further it has to go. you are talking about too much d3 powder, he would have to provide alot more than a 12 to start hurting his animal. it isnt a nocturnal animal


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

if hes providing enough shade and distance from the bulb it prevents problems with this.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

take back what i said about the sunburn thing you were right


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

i think you have taken what i said the wrong way, what i meant is that you cant buy a bulb that is too high for a bearded dragon as they need the highest output that you can buy when it comes to reptile bulbs.


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## Jamie XVX (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm not trying to argue, like I said it'd be hard to over-do UVB for a bearded dragon, unless the dragon is albino or leatherback/silkback. I'm assuming it isn't, because people tend to mention that kinda thing, but it's something to consider.

UVC is so dangerous because naturally it is all entirely filtered out by our atmosphere. Because it never usually reaches Earth itself, there are no species whose bodies or eyes can handle it. That's why it's used for filtration - it kills virtually everything, including bacteria. 

I might be over-complicating slightly, I just know a lot of people read this forums for "general" advice and I'd hate for someone to pick up this thread in the future and think high levels of UV are suitable for any and all reptiles.

You are absolutely right though, for a bearded dragon, the highest output bulbs available to the pet market are not going to be too strong - again, provided your beardie isn't albino etc.


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## kbonnington (Mar 15, 2015)

Jamie XVX said:


> I'm not trying to argue, like I said it'd be hard to over-do UVB for a bearded dragon, unless the dragon is albino or leatherback/silkback. I'm assuming it isn't, because people tend to mention that kinda thing, but it's something to consider.
> 
> UVC is so dangerous because naturally it is all entirely filtered out by our atmosphere. Because it never usually reaches Earth itself, there are no species whose bodies or eyes can handle it. That's why it's used for filtration - it kills virtually everything, including bacteria.
> 
> ...


ok im with you now to say you cant give too much UV when its not a bearded dragon is wrong and i totally agree. i do apologize i wasnt trying to argue either but i did feel like you were over complicating it for the man. i havent heard of the albino ans silkys having problems but i have heard that the absorption of uv is affected by the thickness of the skin and i agree.
for this situation using the highest out put you can, fitting it correctly and providing no more than once a week with the d3 will cause no problems.


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