# injured grass snake



## laurencea

whilst looking for reptiles at the london wetland centre, trying to establish 'last dates' for the record books, i found a young grass snake.


IMGP3197 by laurencea, on Flickr

however, look closely at the photo and you can see something bony in the bottom left... that's its tail.

here's a close-up


IMGP3196 by laurencea, on Flickr

probably been caused by a cat attack, i've found one dead grassy and another fatally wounded one not far away from this spot.

i thought about what to do, just leave it and hope it survives, but with brumation season coming and my reluctance to lose another of my babies to a blimmin' moggy i decided to take it home!

i showed the staff at the centre and a plastic tub was found in the kitchen. paper towels and tissue stuffed inside and in went snakey.

i consulted a vet friend on twitter and i bathed its tail in salt water. he also suggested the RSPCA in Putney. so today i took her (not sure if it is female) there and they looked at her, but refused to treat it for some pretty daft reasons.

tomorrow the twitter vet has said he can operate on her and tonight she's in a RUB, in my bedroom (away from my snakes).

this is her tail now, after salt water baths and sprays


IMGP3205 by laurencea, on Flickr

and here's some shots of its lovely face


IMGP3189 by laurencea, on Flickr


IMGP3190 by laurencea, on Flickr

apart from the wound she is fine. she musked on me when i first picked her up and was flattening her head. she also hissed. when i was bathing her tail she was as good as gold and didn't flinch, but she tries to escape once i try and put her back in the little tub.

hopefully she'll be ok... i will probably keep her over winter as she will brumate soon. if she survives, then she will return 'home' in spring.

L


----------



## RADIOGAGAGA

Well done you for looking after this little one. 

What beautiful specimen she is. I have never seen a wild (live) snake


----------



## feorag

My goodness that tail has been well and truly "de-gloved" - something's had a strong hold on that with sharp teeth I suspect. 

I'm not sure what a vet could do apart from amputate the end and seal the end, it won't leave the vertebrae sticking out. :gasp:


----------



## Jono2411

That's made me cringe so much! You can see its spine!

I hope the little fella is OK and that he gets sorted. Your are a credit to humanity.


----------



## laurencea

thank you guys...

suspect it was a cat that did the damage. other than the injury, it's fine... quite feisty.

today it had a trip to the vet


IMGP3215 by laurencea, on Flickr

here's a close up of the stitches


IMGP3220 by laurencea, on Flickr

couldn't get many pics as i wanted to get her rested... the vet said he thought he'd lost her as it stopped breathing for a bit when gassed (too small for an ansthetic injection!). he also gave her some antibiotics. all that for free!

another rubbish one of the remains of the tail after the op...


IMGP3233 by laurencea, on Flickr

and here is the little one.


IMGP3234 by laurencea, on Flickr

the plan is to let her rest in a heated RUB. then try and feed her up. it means she won't brumate (at least not for a bit). if all goes well she'll go back home in the wild in spring.

HUGE THANKS to Sean McCormack at Animals Are Us vets for his advice on twitter and phone and for the free surgery. he's a top vet.


----------



## feorag

He's done a good job there, from what I can see and I'm sure she'll manage fine without the end of her tail.

Most vets have an 'agreement' where they don't charge for wildlife, my vet certainly doesn't either.

Do keep us updated with her progress as the wound heals and how she manages her first slough, although I don't anticipate a problem. :2thumb:


----------



## laurencea

he was also pretty upset the RSPCA wouldn't do anything! he's a reptile/exotic specialist too, he was excellent.

rest now for the little one... then feeding attempts! going to be an interesting winter.


----------



## feorag

laurencea said:


> he was also pretty upset the RSPCA wouldn't do anything! he's a reptile/exotic specialist too, he was excellent.
> 
> rest now for the little one... then feeding attempts! going to be an interesting winter.


He doesn't know the RSPCA very well then does he? :roll:

That came as no surprise to me!


----------



## laurencea

feorag said:


> He doesn't know the RSPCA very well then does he? :roll:
> 
> That came as no surprise to me!


he does... the news was no real surprise. they really are useless!


----------



## laurencea

update: the patient has been moving around the RUB a lot. picked her up today and she musked on me! also wouldn't keep still and full of strength.

she's ben called Ali as a) it could be a male or female name and b) it's a real fighter of a snake.


----------



## feorag

Excellent news! :2thumb:


----------



## Sparko

Poor little thing - s/he is lucky to have had you find him/her.

Please continue to keep us updated : victory:


----------



## laurencea

quick update.

the little one is very feisty - hissing constantly at me! :flrt:

i was very pleased to have to change the paper substrate the other day as there had been pee - it means the bodily functions are still going well.

it also looks as if the attempts to feed have been partly successful - but i'm staying away from checking to avoid upsetting her/him.


----------



## Naturally Wild

Thats why I detest cats!


----------



## feorag

Why? There is no proof that it was a cat that grabbed this snake is there?


----------



## JonnyFrilledDragonLawson

good luck with this


----------



## Naturally Wild

feorag said:


> Why? There is no proof that it was a cat that grabbed this snake is there?


how about the huge numbers of birds and reptiles generally accepted to be killed by domestic cats?

if people must have cats keep them inside


----------



## JonnyFrilledDragonLawson

its called nature.. what about the HUUGEE number of insects bred just solely to be food


----------



## feorag

Naturally Wild said:


> how about the huge numbers of birds and reptiles generally accepted to be killed by domestic cats?
> 
> if people must have cats keep them inside


I agree with you, but why was there a need to say "that's why you hate cats" on a thread that's about an injured grass snake, without provocation or reason to blame a cat??


----------



## Frogsrule10

wow that's a gorgeous animal. I'm suprised that she wasn't in pain about it too much though, if I had my leg stripped to the bone up to my knee or something, I sure wouldn't be happy  . Good for you!


----------



## laurencea

had a little present waiting for me tonight... a teeny little poo. :no1:


----------



## spottymint

Naturally Wild said:


> Thats why I detest cats!


Look at all the wildlife squished by car's on the road, better keep your car in the garage. :whistling2:

Pretty snake, have had a grass snake slither over my foot when fishing, I guess for the maggot pot at my feet.

Good luck with him/her.


----------



## feorag

laurencea said:


> had a little present waiting for me tonight... a teeny little poo. :no1:


That's good! :2thumb: At least it means the insides are all working OK!


----------



## laurencea

feorag said:


> That's good! :2thumb: At least it means the insides are all working OK!


yup... had musk, pee and poo! :no1:


----------



## laurencea

little Ali is doing well. (s)he ate another guppy last week and has pooped again. i am amazed at how much mess a small snake makes - the poop is small, but there is constant peeing - i am now guessing that grass snakes mark their territory with musk.

in a few weeks i'll drop the temperature and let her brumate.

now she's had 2 'meals' i feel a lot more confident she's strong and will survive winter. she is feisty, constantly hissing at me and had a nice pee on my hand last night. the tail (or lack of) looks good and the wound looks to have healed.

i'll be in tears when it comes to release time!


----------



## feorag

:lol2: I bet you will, but you'll feel great about it! :2thumb:

And so you should! :notworthy:


----------



## mrcarlxx

A few things...

As much as I don't like cats, it could have been anything..fox, bird..etc

Secondly I see you pick it up a fair bit, don't. Try to leave it alone. I know its a hard thing to do lol

Third, you won't put it back 

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## laurencea

mrcarlxx said:


> A few things...
> 
> As much as I don't like cats, it could have been anything..fox, bird..etc
> 
> Secondly I see you pick it up a fair bit, don't. Try to leave it alone. I know its a hard thing to do lol
> 
> Third, you won't put it back
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


the handling has been to check the wound and when cleaning out the RUB.

it will be put back.

yes, it could have been anything, but when you find a wounded animal in an area where there are a lot of cats present and it has been 'played with', then chances are, it was a cat attack. if anything else had grabbed it, then they would have finished it off. it's not the first wounded snake i've found in that part of the reserve, just the first one that i've been able to save.


----------



## laurencea

feorag said:


> :lol2: I bet you will, but you'll feel great about it! :2thumb:
> 
> And so you should! :notworthy:


yes, i will feel proud when i see her scuttle off into the grass. i'll be very emotional if i find her again on a survey or someone reports a tail-less snake was seen.


----------



## Kuja

Glad the little bute is doing well, meant to bump this up a few days ago to check but didn't get round to it 

any recent pictures of the tail? either way keep up the good work


----------



## laurencea

Kuja said:


> Glad the little bute is doing well, meant to bump this up a few days ago to check but didn't get round to it
> 
> any recent pictures of the tail? either way keep up the good work


cheers!

i tried to get pics last night, but she wasn't staying still. i might try tomorrow morning, with more light. i can let the vet see the wound then. she seems used to the fact it's not there, initially she did seem to miss it.


----------



## mrkeda

JonnyFrilledDragonLawson said:


> its called nature.. what about the HUUGEE number of insects bred just solely to be food


Do we get wild cats then?


----------



## Shisui uchiha

Well played squire well played.


----------



## Shisui uchiha

Re the cats we get feral cats, domestic cats that have gone rogue. Cats become the apex predator in any food chain or Eco system they force their way into generally ask an Australian what they think of the domestic cat. They are ruthlessly efficient predators. They also carry a myriad of diseases and infections polio listed as one serious example (my mother has one weakened practically unusable arm thanks to cats and polio). However I think if a cat grabbed our buddy regardless of his defence mechanisms he would be in pieces due to their efficiency.All of what I just said is completely irrelevant though haha the snake was still injured and now its getting help from a rare breed of human, a helpful one.


----------



## mrkeda

Shisui uchiha said:


> Re the cats we get feral cats, domestic cats that have gone rogue. Cats become the apex predator in any food chain or Eco system they force their way into generally ask an Australian what they think of the domestic cat. They are ruthlessly efficient predators. They also carry a myriad of diseases and infections polio listed as one serious example (my mother has one weakened practically unusable arm thanks to cats and polio). However I think if a cat grabbed our buddy regardless of his defence mechanisms he would be in pieces due to their efficiency.All of what I just said is completely irrelevant though haha the snake was still injured and now its getting help from a rare breed of human, a helpful one.


All true, sad but true :/ ah well, like you said, this threads about a rare creature that is the helpful human :lol2:


----------



## laurencea

winter is coming... tonight another clean out (how much mess can a tiny snake make!) and then preparing for brumation. i've been lowering the temperature every few days and tonight i constructed a hibernaculum


IMGP3492 by laurencea, on Flickr

it's a takeaway tub filled with repti-card and lined with kitchen roll...


IMGP3493 by laurencea, on Flickr

hopefully it will work.

this is the 9L RUB...


IMGP3495 by laurencea, on Flickr

and some fake vine too... spot the grass snake in the pic below...


IMGP3497 by laurencea, on Flickr

(she's in the top left corner under the plant)

her'e the injured tail. the stitches haven't disolved, but the wound has healed well.


IMGP0511 by laurencea, on Flickr

and here is the little cutie...


IMGP0506 by laurencea, on Flickr


IMGP0508 by laurencea, on Flickr

i am going to miss the little one so much when it comes to release time, but it will be worth it.


IMGP0523 by laurencea, on Flickr

here's hoping brumation goes well. fingers crossed.


----------



## mrkeda

Awesome dude, i hope the brumation goes well for the little guy and you. You're doing a good thing:2thumb:


----------



## feorag

Seconded! :2thumb:

She's a beautiful wee creature - I have a soft spot for grass snakes! :flrt:


----------



## gregnobes

really good thing u have done i hope everything goes well


----------



## Lee W

Keep up the good work :2thumb: & Nice to see Repti-Card being used :no1:


----------



## laurencea

quick update.

just back from the Vet (Sean has moved to Richmond Vets, so closer to me now) and the stitches were cut off. everything looking good so i'll start to lower the temperature in the RUB.

everyone at the Vet's loved her.

"gonna need a smaller blade" was the comment as she is so small. it still shocks me how tiny she is when i pick her up.

i'll try and get some shots of the tail tomorrow, but i'll let her rest for now.


----------



## laurencea

i took advantage of a sunny afternoon to get some shots...

here's the stumpy tail...


IMGP1212 by laurencea, on Flickr


IMGP1223 by laurencea, on Flickr

obviously the straggly bits of skin will come off when she sheds.

and here she is looking cute...


IMGP1226 by laurencea, on Flickr


IMGP1229 by laurencea, on Flickr

and after a short time she just calmed down and relaxed on my finger...


IMGP1242 by laurencea, on Flickr


IMGP1243 by laurencea, on Flickr


----------



## feorag

How much tail has she got from her cloaca to the end.


----------



## laurencea

feorag said:


> How much tail has she got from her cloaca to the end.


a few millimetres... it was very close.

this is from shortly after the operation and you can see the vent...


IMGP3235 by laurencea, on Flickr


----------



## feorag

Wow! She was extremely lucky there!!

Do you think she'll be all right if she mates in spring when you release her? Will she be able to pass her eggs OK?


----------



## laurencea

she's too young to mate, probably one of last years' hatchlings. it may even be a boy - i assumed it was female by the larger head, but actually it was making itself look bigger!

i'm hoping (s)he'll have a good life back in the wild. as much as i'd love a natrix of my own, this one was born wild and the injury is no real impairment, so there is no reason to keep her.

the hope is i'll find her again on a survey, or someone will see her around the reserve.

now to get her through brumation!


----------



## feorag

My female corn does that sometimes when I have her out meeting people, she blows out her head so she looks bigger!

Well whatever sex it is, it's lucky to be alive and it'll be great when the day comes that you release her!


----------



## Harry_NW

Brilliant tale there, well done for making such an effort to save him/her - what a beauty it is - looking forward to news of it's release and future survey updates on its ongoing life!


----------



## laurencea

sad news... i checked on her when changing the water - she was in brumation. her eyes were clouded and i was worried, so i opened her little sleeping box and she's dead.

we had feared that brumation might be risky and i look as if it was too much for her. maybe there was more damage, or infection... whatever, she lost her fight.


----------



## Sparko

laurencea said:


> sad news... i checked on her when changing the water - she was in brumation. her eyes were clouded and i was worried, so i opened her little sleeping box and she's dead.
> 
> we had feared that brumation might be risky and i look as if it was too much for her. maybe there was more damage, or infection... whatever, she lost her fight.


Oh wow, I'm very sad to hear this. I'd really enjoyed following this thread. I'm sorry for what I'm sure is an upsetting time for you. I have no doubt that I'm not alone in saying that what you have done was a wonderful thing and I hope you will rest easy knowing that despite this outcome, you helped relieve the suffering of that snake.

Thank you for having shared all of this.

Kind Regards,
Craig


----------



## feorag

That is such a shame after all your hard work. It really is a bugger when you put so much into trying to save the life of an injured wild animal and then it dies - I know I've been there myself and it stinks, putting it mildly!!

An experienced breeder told me snakes can carry an infection for as long as a year before it shows itself, so she could have had that infection before you got her??


----------



## laurencea

thanks guys.

she was given antibiotics when she had the operation, but there may have been a bit of infection... or maybe it was all too much for a tiny little snake! guess she went to sleep and her body just couldn't keep her going.


----------



## Spreebok

Oh damn, I'm so sorry 

At least you gave her the best you could in the time she was with you, and it even seemed like she started to get some trust in you. Truly, you did a great thing


----------



## mcdougle

laurencea said:


> thanks guys.
> 
> she was given antibiotics when she had the operation, but there may have been a bit of infection... or maybe it was all too much for a tiny little snake! guess she went to sleep and her body just couldn't keep her going.


 
sounds like you did a really good job of keeping her well and treated but idealy an injured snake should be kept awake and feeding during brumation as their metabolism slows they dont have the strength to fight any infection that may set in while their bodys are dorment, but you still did a great job, well done : victory:


----------

