# Crufts Dog show and news



## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

went to crufts to day to show our husky Had a fab day well done to channah for winning best in breed and a champion certificate she made it into live TV on channel 4 too it has been along day 7am to 12am but was worth it so proud of our dog


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

Congratulations! I was rooting for the Nordic breeds in the Working group, but as per usual only the Malamute was acknowledged lol.
Apart from the Husky, I really loved the Eskimo Dog and the Greenland Dog, they were stunning.

Did you see the GSD BoB winner though? What a farce! I know that they train the dogs to walk a certain way, but such a slope and drag could not be trained and did NOTHING in promoting the health and welfare of the shepherd dog. My 10 year old arthritic GSD moves better (and looks happier) than that poor dog, It should be taken out of the breeding program immediately.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Congratulations!! :2thumb: That's a great achievement!

I cried for my breed though.  Brigitte you are right - that GSD shouldn't have even qualified let alone won the BOB. I get that the way a GSD is 'stacked' when showing that the topline will not be level as in all the other breeds which are stood "4 square", but it should be flat, not roached. Both the dog and bitch CC winners were roach backed, but the bitch's topline made her look deformed. That judge should not be allowed to judge this breed again imao!!!


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> went to crufts to day to show our husky Had a fab day well done to channah for winning best in breed and a champion certificate she made it into live TV on channel 4 too it has been along day 7am to 12am but was worth it so proud of our dog
> 
> image



Congrats . That's a stunning looking dog !!!!


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

feorag said:


> Congratulations!! :2thumb: That's a great achievement!
> 
> I cried for my breed though.  Brigitte you are right - that GSD shouldn't have even qualified let alone won the BOB. I get that the way a GSD is 'stacked' when showing that the topline will not be level as in all the other breeds which are stood "4 square", but it should be flat, not roached. Both the dog and bitch CC winners were roach backed, but the bitch's topline made her look deformed. That judge should not be allowed to judge this breed again imao!!!


The way the handler kept tugging looked like he was desperately trying to keep her from flopping down in the back. She didn't look happy . Usually, although I don't like the appearance of the show line GSD (not what the breed inventor had in mind), at least the previous BoB winners I remember seemed like happy, well balanced dogs who enjoyed the show ring.
Apparently "it's being investigated" by the KC, which probably means the paid off vet will give her the all clear and all is swept under the carpet. 
I couldn't believe my eyes, when I saw people on the UK GSD Facebook page actually defending the BoB decision (including one *****istrator), banging on about her hip score and titles, like they make a healthy happy dog in real life. I wonder if they have their fingers in the pie somewhere...
They actually told people that, if they aren't a fan of Crufts, not to post on the thread (which has now been deleted)! WTH?

P.S: Why does RFUK blank out the word A.D.M.I.N.???


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's unbelievable!!!

The breed standard says: "The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup. The back is firm, strong and well muscled. Loin broad, strong, well muscled. Weak, soft and roach backs undesirable and should be heavily penalised. Croup slightly sloping and without any break in the topline, merges imperceptibly with the set on of the tail. Short, steep or flat croups highly undesirable." 

WEAK, SOFT AND ROACH BACKS UNDESIRABLE AND SHOULD BE HEAVILY PENALISED. This totally described both CC winners. Do judges read this???


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

feorag said:


> That's unbelievable!!!
> 
> The breed standard says: "The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup. The back is firm, strong and well muscled. Loin broad, strong, well muscled. Weak, soft and roach backs undesirable and should be heavily penalised. Croup slightly sloping and without any break in the topline, merges imperceptibly with the set on of the tail. Short, steep or flat croups highly undesirable."
> 
> WEAK, SOFT AND ROACH BACKS UNDESIRABLE AND SHOULD BE HEAVILY PENALISED. This totally described both CC winners. Do judges read this???


I've not watched it myself yet (couldn't bare watching any more Crufts after the GSD), but someone posted a video of it being discussed on the TV program on Sunday. From what it sounded like from one of the KC reps, the judge that gave out the GSD titles will no longer be judging, because he ignored the KC's guidelines.
IMHO, unless there is a 180 degree turn back to the origins of the GSD, showline breeding of the GSD should be extinct.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

We used to watch it when we had Irish ( Red ) Setters as the breed always seemed to do well but now we have an Italian Greyhound they hardly seem to get a mention ..I'll keep an eye out for a highlights program On Demand


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

BMo1979 said:


> I've not watched it myself yet (couldn't bare watching any more Crufts after the GSD), but someone posted a video of it being discussed on the TV program on Sunday. From what it sounded like from one of the KC reps, the judge that gave out the GSD titles will no longer be judging, because he ignored the KC's guidelines.
> IMHO, unless there is a 180 degree turn back to the origins of the GSD, showline breeding of the GSD should be extinct.


As long as judges put up dogs like this, ambitious breeders who want to win will continue to breed them.

If the KC now act and stop judges NOT judging to the breed standard then those breeders will have to start outcrossing to straightbacked GSDs (and there are plenty out there with good pedigrees) to get the topline right.

I'd hate to see an x-ray of that dog's spine :gasp:


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

OMG, the owner of the BoB shep has now spoken out.
Completely disregards all the criticism and feels victimized. Well, cry me a river. Even in the pictures with her holding the dog you can see the abnormal stance:
German Shepherd with a sloped back wins Crufts' best of breed award | Daily Mail Online


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

BMo1979 said:


> OMG, the owner of the BoB shep has now spoken out.
> 
> Completely disregards all the criticism and feels victimized. Well, cry me a river. Even in the pictures with her holding the dog you can see the abnormal stance:
> 
> German Shepherd with a sloped back wins Crufts' best of breed award | Daily Mail Online



I'm confused ... After watching the vid in that link .....the dog in question ( at the front ) looks kinda weird yet the one behind it looks perfectly normal .

If I can see that how can the experts have seemingly got it wrong ??


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

Zincubus said:


> I'm confused ... After watching the vid in that link .....the dog in question ( at the front ) looks kinda weird yet the one behind it looks perfectly normal .
> 
> If I can see that how can the experts have seemingly got it wrong ??


A Cynic could say, it happened at the same show a judge picked his sister's dog as best gun dog.....:whistling2:
It's not what you know, is it?

P.S.: The GSD League (Breeders' club) has now chimed in and denies all wrong doing. Link is on the left of the page (pdf format). Apparently it's Channel 4's fault for causing Mass hysteria. JC, now I know for sure, I want nothing at all to do with the show breeding circles. http://www.gsdleague.co.uk/


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well I PMSL at your last post Brigitte - Channel 4's fault! :lol2:

Zincubus - are you saying that the Male CC winner looked perfectly normal? Cos this is what I saw:



Neither dogs have a topline which runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup" as the standard demands. They both have a roach back which is undesirable and should be penalised. That's why GSD owners are up in arms.

There are still breeders out there breeding to this standard, they just aren't showing or winning, but they are true to their breed. This is my 7 year old boy - well bred with champions in his pedigree, but look at his back. The topline is straight, falling away slightly from the withers to the croup, which has a slope, not dropping away at a huge angle with a hump in the middle.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

The KC should really have a look at themselves at the standards they deem right. They've made healthy breeds riddled with ailments.


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## TalulaTarantula (Jan 21, 2011)

Go to crufts every year and its always a great day out, however this year, aswell as last year there seems to be a lot of things going on behind the scenes (the poisoning last year)
This year we've had the gundog winner being a relation to the actual judge,

now i know in other countries its illegal for a an individual to judge a class if they know or are connected to the dog in any way
that god awful pekinese
then there is that absolutely disgracful GSD, growing up with the breed theyre my first love, its so awful to see the state they are now

KC need to re evaluate their whole judging and show system

theres been talk of removing the actual breed from the KC shows, which imo would be the best thing to do!


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

TalulaTarantula said:


> then there is that absolutely disgracful GSD, growing up with the breed theyre my first love, its so awful to see the state they are now
> 
> KC need to re evaluate their whole judging and show system
> 
> theres been talk of removing the actual breed from the KC shows, *which imo would be the best thing to do*!


I can't see it happening to be honest, because the GSD League seems to have a lot of influence in the KC and they don't seem to be willing to change their ways any time soon. There has to be to be done to eliminate roach/banana back breeding completely, i.e. not even allowing breeders to KC register litters from those dogs. 

What I find astonishing with the bitch in question is that according to her papers, she has got a "Sieger" title (German winner's award). AFAIK, a "Sieger" has to complete at least one working trial, but I can't for the life see this poor dog being able to do something like Schutzhund!? Apart from wobbling and walking on her hocks, she seemed way too nervy and anxious.
Worst thing is her next litter is already planned for this year and with her new title no doubt some ignorant people will be just too happy to throw their money at the breeders (and the vets in the future).


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

BMo1979 said:


> I can't see it happening to be honest, because the GSD League seems to have a lot of influence in the KC and they don't seem to be willing to change their ways any time soon. There has to be to be done to eliminate roach/banana back breeding completely, i.e. not even allowing breeders to KC register litters from those dogs.
> 
> What I find astonishing with the bitch in question is that according to her papers, she has got a "Sieger" title (German winner's award). AFAIK, a "Sieger" has to complete at least one working trial, but I can't for the life see this poor dog being able to do something like Schutzhund!? Apart from wobbling and walking on her hocks, she seemed way too nervy and anxious.
> Worst thing is her next litter is already planned for this year and with her new title no doubt some ignorant people will be just too happy to throw their money at the breeders (and the vets in the future).


Yep. And the cycle will continue with those pups and so on and so fourth. The kennel club are disgusting. They're supposed to be all about dogs but they don't give a shit about their lives. Just how they look. It's absolutely disgusting and really winds me up. They've caused so much suffering with their guidelines.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

TalulaTarantula said:


> theres been talk of removing the actual breed from the KC shows, which imo would be the best thing to do!


I absolutely agree with everything you said, but why should the GSD be banned because of judges who don't judge to the standard (which is what they are there to do) and breeders who breed what judges are putting up??

There are plenty of straight backed GSDs to work with to get the breed to what it should be. The KC need to sort out their blooming judges and the breeders who allow ambition to cloud their judgment when breeding.


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## TalulaTarantula (Jan 21, 2011)

feorag said:


> I absolutely agree with everything you said, but *why should the GSD be banned because of judges who don't judge to the standard (which is what they are there to do) and breeders who breed what judges are putting up??*
> 
> There are plenty of straight backed GSDs to work with to get the breed to what it should be. The KC need to sort out their blooming judges and the breeders who allow ambition to cloud their judgment when breeding.




Because it will stop all the breeders who are breeding these unhealthy looking monsters
I hope to one day see beautiful straight backed GSD's take over the show world and get the breed in the lime light looking how it should be


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry, I totally disagree with you. What will stop these ambitious breeders breeding these monsters is to stop them winning. There's no need to go to the severity of banning the breed - they need to ban the judges and sort out the breeders.

The KC needs to get its act in order. If they stop judges from judging who put up dogs with roach backs and severely sloping toplines, that will stop the ambitious breeders from continuing to breed dogs like this because judges will be putting up GSDs that look like GSDs with straight toplines, so they will stop winning. 

As I said earlier there are plenty of straight backed GSDs out there for breeders to work with. My GSD has champions behind him who will have a topline similar to the BOB winner at Crufts, but he has a straight topline, so it can be done.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

The Crufts BOB GSD is now a champion


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You're kidding me! WTF!!!! :gasp:


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

Kind of saw that coming as the GSD League was anything but co-operative when the whole thing kicked off  .


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

We seem to be getting somewhere - at least with the Kennel Club itself:

German Shepherd Dog Review Group Reports Initial Findings to General Committee • The Kennel Club


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's at least a start. I particularly liked this bit “Requiring ringside observers to monitor judges’ performance, including their adherence to the Breed Standard and KC show regulations”

I've always maintained that judges have a lot of influence about the direction a breed goes in terms of show dogs, so it's not just the breeders who need to be kept a close eye on.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

feorag said:


> That's at least a start. I particularly liked this bit “Requiring ringside observers to monitor judges’ performance, including their adherence to the Breed Standard and KC show regulations”
> 
> I've always maintained that judges have a lot of influence about the direction a breed goes in terms of show dogs, so it's not just the breeders who need to be kept a close eye on.


Definitely! They decide which dog wins the title, so if they pick a dog with extreme features as the best of breed other breeders will usually follow suit by breeding those traits into their lines, thus being in for a chance of winning said title for themselves (if that makes sense).


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

It makes perfect sense. There will always be breeders who will breed ethically to the SOP, but then there are a lot who do it because they want to win, so they will breed what is winning, whether it conforms to the SOP or not.

Make the judges judge correctly and you will get rid of all these extreme types because they won't win.


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