# Thinking ahead, Which two Leos to buy to go with our Female



## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi guys 

We picked up a nice little Tangerine Super-Hypo Carrot tail at the show at the weekend as our first Leo (I say 'we' it was tottaly my OH, I want to save for Royals :whistling2.

Our plan I think is to add another female and a male to give us a group of 1.2.

I was just wondering if anyone with masses of Leo experiance could make some good recormendations to us as to which we should consider adding to our collection?

Many thanks in advance,


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

maybe a nice enigma male, you'd get something interesting straight off then, and then you can get any female you fancy like a super snow or something for mack enigmas. Theres loads of options, what geckos do you like the look of?


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Well looking on Mystic Gecko on their available page I am loving these morphs:

Blazing Blizzard (Female)
Mack Snow Tangerine Enigma Het Blizzard (male)

So if I was to add those to our Tangerine Super-Hypo Carrot tail female what could we expect morph wise?

I am too confused by it to even start working it out at the moment!


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm still learning but with those two i think you can expect 
Macks het blizz and albino
Blizzards het albino 
Mack Blizzards het albino and obviously some of those will be enigma.

With the Tang SHCT you have 
12.5% Hypos or super hypos and varying amounts of carrot tail and tang influence
12.5% will also be Het. blizzard, 
12.5% enigma Het. blizzard, 
12.5% mack snow 
12.5% mack snow Het. blizzard, 
12.5% mack snow enigma 
12.5% mack snow enigma Het. blizzard
Thats worse case if the enigma is single copy.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Sounds like a pretty exciting Trio then 

Not sure what else would yeild as fun results!


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

excession said:


> Well looking on Mystic Gecko on their available page I am loving these morphs:
> 
> Blazing Blizzard (Female)
> Mack Snow Tangerine Enigma Het Blizzard (male)
> ...


Assuming the Enigma is heterozygous for enigma, and the same with the Hypo in the SHTCT...

Mack snow Tangerine enigma het Blizzard x Blazing blizzard will give:
12.5% Mack snow Blizzard enigma het TAlbino
12.5% Mack snow enigma het TAlbino and blizzard
12.5% Mack snow Blizzard het TAlbino
12.5% Mack snow het TAlbino and blizzard
12.5% Blizzard enigma het TAlbino
12.5% Enigma het TAlbino and blizzard
12.5% Blizzard het TAlbino
12.5% Normal het TAlbino and blizzard

Offspring may show varying amounts of tangerine.

Mack snow Tangerine Enigma x SHTCT will give:

12.5% Mack snow Enigma Hypo
12.5% Mack snow enigma
12.5% Mack snow Hypo
12.5% Mack snow
12.5% Hypo enigma
12.5% Enigma
12.5% Hypo
12.5% Normal

All will be poss (50%) het Blizzard. Some offspring may show varying amounts of tangerine, reduced spotting and carrot tail.


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

excession said:


> Sounds like a pretty exciting Trio then
> 
> Not sure what else would yeild as fun results!


 it does sound like an interesting trio for you to start with, good luck.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

OK i know I am going to confuse my self further now, but can someone help me with what we would get from these pairings?

Mack Snow Albino Leucistic (male) x Tangerine Super-Hypo Carrot tail (female)
Mack Snow Albino Leucistic (male) x Blazing Blizzard (female)


Thanks in advance


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Assuming leucistic is Murphy patternless, the albino is Tremper albino (TAlbino) and the SHTCT is het for Hypo....



excession said:


> Mack Snow Albino Leucistic (male) x Tangerine Super-Hypo Carrot tail (female)


25% Mack snow hypo het patternless and TAlbino
25% Mack snow het patternless and TAlbino
25% Hypo het patternless and TAlbino
25% Normal het patternless and TAlbino



excession said:


> Mack Snow Albino Leucistic (male) x Blazing Blizzard (female)


50% Mack snow TAlbino het patternless and blizzard
50% TAlbino het patternless and blizzard


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Can you help me with the results from this pairing?

Mack Super Snow Blizzard (Female)
Mack Snow Tangerine Enigma Het Blizzard (male)


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

If you really want to enhance on what you already have get some more carrot tails and enhance their colorings through breeding.

Perfect their coloration and aim to breed out any dirty coloration, thats what i'd do.

Carrot tails that are near perfect in appearence are very popular.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

I think its unlikely that we will have hold backs, and we want differant appearances in the 3 we have - Otherwise that would be pretty cool.


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

If you aim to sell all your offspring you willl need a petshop license unless you hold one back.

If you sell them all your not acting as a hobbyist in the 1951 petshop act


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

I never knew that!

Id have to have a little re think then 

We'd planed on letting my son have a hatchling / small group when he was old enough to have one in his room (which I suppose would all be holdbacks), and already we've had a friend show a big interest (and that would be given, not sold).

I wonder how many people are breeding commercially then without a license!!


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quite a few i expect, but if the licensing people ever found out they'd get fined for acting illegally.

I just had this problem and i only had 6 leos this year, you dont need a petshop license if your selling surplus or downsizing.

If you arent doing that then you are classed as a mass breeder, which in the eys of the petshop act is selling commerically - its classed as mass production etc.

Keep one back and you'll be fine


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

excession said:


> Can you help me with the results from this pairing?
> 
> Mack Super Snow Blizzard (Female)
> Mack Snow Tangerine Enigma Het Blizzard (male)


Assuming the Enigma is heterozygous for enigma again....

Supersnow Blizzard x Mack snow Tangerine Enigma het Blizzard will give:

12.5% Supersnow Blizzard Engima
12.5% Supersnow Enigma het Blizzard
12.5% Supersnow Blizzard 
12.5% Supersnow het Blizzard
12.5% Mack snow Blizzard Engima
12.5% Mack snow Enigma het Blizzard
12.5% Mack snow Blizzard 
12.5% Mack snow het Blizzard

The mack snows will probably show tangerine influence as a yellow colouring.

If you get any Supersnow blizzard enigmas you won't be able to tell they are Enigma without test breeding them.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Assuming the Enigma is heterozygous for enigma again....
> 
> Supersnow Blizzard x Mack snow Tangerine Enigma het Blizzard will give:
> 
> ...


Thank you, that sounds brilliant


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Does look like an interesting pairing. If you can get a strain of albino dropped in there for the chance at Supersnow Albino blizzards (pure white with solid red eyes).


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

Thats what i'm going for, They're stunning looking geckos!


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks guys for the advice.

Now its time to stretch the budget a little I think!!

And cheers MMatt - I honestly never knew that  Guess I will be keeping back at least one supersnow blizzard enigma to try and prove it out


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Right, We've still made no decision! 

I have been looking at RAPTORs now, both me and my OH are loving how they look.

So now I am thinking of getting a RAPTOR and prehaps something Het RAPTOR to go with it.

I was just wondering if anyone would be able to tell me how much RAPTORs can go for? Ive not seen any available since I've been looking...

Also, can anyone sugest something that would produce some exciting offspring? Like if I had a RAPTOR what could be a good mate for it?


Ive read about the Novas and the dreamsicles both of which look fantastic as well.

Also, just out of interest, is there any genetic reason why RAPTORs should not be paired together? If they were would you expect all the offspring to be RAPTORS?

Sorry for the silly questions!


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

I don't personally like the yellow "banded" raptors that seem to be around now. If you can get hold of a "proper" RAPTOR (actually patternless and orange) then you may pay more but definately worth it imo.

There are no known issues breeding RAPTOR to RAPTOR, although you must make sure both animals are in 110% condition (as with any other pairing).

RAPTOR x RAPTOR will likely produce more RAPTORS (definately Tremper albino eclipses) it is just the colour and body pattern may vary (anything from the range banded/jungle/stripe/reverse stripe/patternless stripe)

Novas and Dreamsickles are a nice project, but you will need at least 2 seasons if both parents do not carry Tremper albino and eclipse.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

OK another 'what would I get' question! 

RAPTOR (male) x SHTCT (female)

RAPTOR (male) x Tremper Eclipse het Raptor (female)

Thanks guys 

Leo morphs are still confusing me no end 


Edit: Ahh I was getting confused Eclipse / Enigma there!!

I am thinking how great it would be to have Novas and for them I require Enigmas not Eclipse's.

Prehaps I should go to bed...


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