# Mice, Multis and Rat breeding



## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

I am looking into the possibility of breeding mice, rats or mutis but don't really know where to start. I will be breeding for 20+ (with more coming in every year) snakes (corns and royals) of all sizes. 

Can anyone give me any advice on what I would need (setups, breeding groups,food ect.), useful links for breeding them ect. 

I am looking as starting with mutis as I have heard they don't smell as bad as mice and are bigger so any info on those would be much appreciated. Am also looking at rats.

Also any nutritional info for both rats and multis would be good too.


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

from my experiance everything you are likely to have heard about multies is un-true ... 

they dont smell they smell worse than mice far worse 

they dont climb mine love to and they can jump at least a FT one jumped right out of a tank while i was refilling the food the other night spent 2 hrs chaseing him around to get him back in 

they have huge litters not in my experiance adverage been 8 / 12 no more than my mice 

any way C + P from one of my previous posts 


Food 
Dr Johns Silver medal 15kg sacks 18% protein 
Value Oats Tesco
Pearl barley Tesco
Buy from health food shops
Dried Fruits / veggies Bulk what ever on offer but not dried lentils as these contain trace amounts of arsenic 
Roasted Soy nuts (unseasoned)

Fresh veggies 
Raw, washed, peelings / trimmings (remove left over’s the morning after you give them)

Boneo Milk Bones for puppies (for the does that are producing 1 each every couple of days until there litters are weaned) 
Drinking water 1x 500ml Water 
1 x 150ML bottle with vitamin supplement drops 
In each cage at all times 

Habitat 
Rats:
64L rubs for rats full mesh lids for ventilation yes I would like bigger but space wouldn’t allow 
Mice:
18/33L rubs same set up as for rats just smaller

Multies 
Glass tank due to their nature as large a tank as you have space for 


Each tank / rub is fitted out with the following 
Appropriate size Wodent wheel 
Bedding boxes 
Depending on the amount in there quite a number I’ve found that half coconuts do quite well for mice / multies 
The rats have plastic domes 

For bedding material I use Large Dust free Horse bedding 50kg bales

Straw 25kg bales
Hay 20kg bales Free 
For doe’s that are about to birth I also put in some shredded soft paper cheap kitchen roll or what ever never use the cotton wool type stuff its lethal to new borne 

Then all there is to it is general cage maintenance spot clean every other day and full clean once a week 

While I’m sure this could be done for a 1/2 of the cost in all honestly my feed costs me under £20.00 for 30 odd KG which lasts me a couple of months 
So bar my initial set up costs maintenance I set aside £5.00 pw for my colonies which over time would cover food, bedding, and cage maintenance 
Which buying frozen far inferior quality foods actually costs me more per week 
Considering I’ve used racking systems in the past feeding bulk pellet feeds compared to what I use now I’ve noticed my lot are developing earlier than they used to in this system and on that food 


Also as a side note I’ve noticed I have fewer royals refusing the food guess they taste that good they sure don’t smell as bad when I come to defrost them for dinner time


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Great post :2thumb:

I am looking more towards multis at the moment as they are better size for royals (over mice) and will have enough room for a couple of 60-80cm Tanks.

Can you give any detailed info on them? Pics of setups?
Also how many would I need to keep in good supply?
Any any breeding info would be awesome.

: victory:


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

depending on how many snakes you have 

and if they are multie only feeders honestly id say your better off with rats 

the only bonus I’ve found with multies is they will cohabit with mice 
so when I take the males out of the breeding trios I put them in the multies tank 

i keep the multies the same as i would keep mice bar I put extra playthings wood ect in there to fill up the tank a little as its quite large and on its side so has a huge floor space

the only difference with multies is you need a house in there for them or you will find they eat the young and they need more floor space or they actually don’t mate odd I know but a handy thing if you want to grow on generations for later breeding


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

would rats take up more space?

Also how do you keep them? 1.4 ok per 60cm tank? if I had two colonies all unrelated, how should I prevent inbreeding?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i think 1.4 in a 2ft tank is going to be a bit tight once litters start arriving, and they`ll get wet through and boy do they stink in no time.

shame you cant keep them in rub set ups like mice`n`rats ,would make them easier to keep

you`d just keep females from one tank, grow them onto a decent size ( they have bigger litters then ) and throw a new male from another source in.

rats are easier, you can do a rub stack, put the females in twos, and rotate the male round the tubs to keep the babies coming without knackering them out.....


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

So can anyone give me some tips on Rats then? 
Info on breeding (ages, how long until a female can breed after a litter? ect.), what size colonies(for a 64l rub), setups?
How bad do they smell?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

they all smell bad.

male mice and rats ming.
especially if they are heavily stocked.
i`ve got my mice in 1.2 or 1.3`s in plastic stacker box thingies with wire lids and they arnt really that bad. when i had them in lab cages in 1.4`s they stank horrendously.

if you`re going to breed your own feeders best get a shed and do it out in the garden.......or you`ll find the other peeps in your house will not be happy bunnies.


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Would 1.2 rats per tub not smell as bad?

Also how do you breed them?? do you just keep them all together or move them about?
Any links would be great or any suggestions welcome : victory:


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

I got some great mice from MrFang on here.

It was a little experimenting to start with and has changed and it'll change again in the future once more to suit me and the mice.

I had two 1:6 in some proper rodent cages from a pet shop. 22 days from putting them together I had my first litter* and then over the next week or so more and more litters were born. In total from all females I had 77 pinks born. The main problem I had was knowing whom had given birth and was hard to clean without disturbing too much. With some litters growing in these larger groups some of the females have also been mated with straight away and have just popped out some more!

I have now broken them down in groups of 3-4 with a male in with two groups and will move him around later to give the females a slight rest.

Ideally I'd like to get some more males and have 1:3 as they are kept in a filing tub set up.

They are in the shed as they do stink a little!








* The first litter of 10 were killed and eaten. I believe that this was due to me touching the young and as I have no longer handled or disturbed them too much they are thriving.


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

hmm as far as smells go ive recently switched to megazorb we use it for the horse stables as well 

and i can honnestly say out of all of them the ones on megazorb smell the least even after 5 days with out a chainge as its still dry 

as far as smells go 

multies are the worst 

then mice 

then rats 

mind u currently i only have 1 male rat so that could be why lol 

i keep 1.3 as a max in a 64l rub with the rats


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Can anyone show pics of their rat setups or post a good link to some. 

If I had two breeding tubs with 1.3 in each, what other tubs would I need for all the offspring?

Cheers for all the help and advice guys :2thumb:


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## mrfang (Apr 10, 2009)

if you need any mice or rats i can help you out if needed and you can check out my setups and get some ideas..
will post some pics for you if needed..
:2thumb::2thumb:..


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

*









*currently looking at building one like that 

depending on how many you want to keep have a look at 
Rat racks, mice racks, rodent racks, and drinking valves.

gives you a guide on how to build them / convert tubs


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

mrfang said:


> if you need any mice or rats i can help you out if needed and you can check out my setups and get some ideas..
> will post some pics for you if needed..
> :2thumb::2thumb:..


That would be great


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Nightfirez said:


> *image
> 
> *currently looking at building one like that
> 
> ...


I wouldn't need anything that big yet lol.

I have seen these on the pro-racks site (15/18 high top spare tubs)
This is my plan, hopefully its ok.

Pro-Rack tub----------------Pro-Rack tub
1.3 ------------------------ 1.3

Pro-Rack tub --------------- Pro-Rack tub
To give birth/rest after birth -To give birth/rest after birth

Rub (need opinions on sizes)- Rub
Males ---------------------- Females

Rub ------------------------ Rub
Spare tub ------------------ Females

My plan is to use any males as pinks/chubs. Females will be grown on to be used as weaners/small (Hence two female tubs).
When I need new females I can keep them in the spare tub to get them to size. Might buy new males when needed to prevent inbreeding.

What do you guys think? I still need advice on rub sizes and will they smell as bad if I am just keeping females?


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## Nightfirez (Sep 28, 2010)

problem with pro rack tubs is 

as far as im aware they are desighned to be used with the racking 
as its the racking that keeps the lids on 
the other lab type cages you will be looking at are probably the lucky reptile ones as these can be used out side of any rack and work as seporate housing tubs ( clip lock lids ) 

cheapest ive seen these new is £35 for a large cage for 1.2 rats 
the smallest one is soon to be re-clasified as a 1.1 mouse cage under eu regulations 
that rack you can scale down to 1 up right row ie 4 tubs there is a guide for it on that site as well two rows would give you enough room for growing on / empty tubs for quick cleaning days move them to a clean tub clean that one out 

considering it costs around a tenner to convert a really usefull box 

Welcome To - 9L RUB

you dont actualy need to bother with doing the sides and can be used for any size rub just use 1/4" x 1/4" mesh for mice and 1/2" x 1/2" for rats 

multies would still be best in glass tanks with 1/4" x 1/4" mesh lid clearseal fish tanks would be fine 

dont under estimate how many feeder breeders you need i work on roughly one and a half Females per snake per 5 weeks in production 

that way i know i have spare if i need to halt production for any reason or give them a rest or grow on new breeders 

or buy in more snakes there is allways something going to be in the freezer which never actualy seems to stay in there for long hungry beggers at this time of year

as far as sizes go 

rats id uses 50L / 64 L rubs for 1.2 (50L's for growing on)
Mice 1.3 in 9L / 12 L rubs (18L for growing on) 

my multies are in a 800 mm x 600 mm tank on its side so they have that as floor space its around 600 mm tall 
probably over kill but i got it cheap


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks for that : victory:

can you suggest a number of rats I should be looking at breeding for 20 Snakes? 
Also would the 9l rubs be ok as breeding tubs? if so how many could they hold.
What size Rub for pregnant females and how many would I get in each tub?
As for the other tubs would 64l's be ok? 

Any good links or pics on how to secure the mesh to the RUBs?

Cheers for all the help :no1:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

9l rubs fine for mice, but not enough room for a rat with a litter.


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> 9l rubs fine for mice, but not enough room for a rat with a litter.



Thats what I was thinking. Anyone know a good size for a couple of pregnant rats to raise their litters?

Also are there any ideal temps for rats to breed?


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## timc20xe (Feb 11, 2011)

ive used cat litter trays for my mouse rack ive made it 8 high , i keep 1male and 4 female in each tray , rack cost me about £45 to make alltogetha , i also have some lab cages , and some tanks for weiners , im going to make my rack another 6 wide though 

thanks tim


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

So after doing some thinking, it would be better to get a small shed to keep them in. 
Can anyone give me any advice on what I would need to do to it??? I only have a small garden so the biggest I could get is a 6x4. Would a small bike shed work at all?


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## timc20xe (Feb 11, 2011)

no reason you cant make it work in a small shed , you just wont have a great deal of room in there , but you will be able to keep anuf in there to give your self a constant supply :no1:


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

So how would i insulate it (if it needs it?)

Can anyone show me pics of their rubs and how to fix the mesh?

Also I would need to put a window in, anyone got any tips on how?


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## timc20xe (Feb 11, 2011)

na no need to insulate it , just give them plenty of bedding in the winter , 
do you mean a window in your shed to be able to open the window for the smell ? if so then dont bother fitting a window , stick a air vent in if you realy want , just clean the trays out every week and the smell isnt all that bad , 

tim


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

timc20xe said:


> na no need to insulate it , just give them plenty of bedding in the winter ,
> do you mean a window in your shed to be able to open the window for the smell ? if so then dont bother fitting a window , stick a air vent in if you realy want , just clean the trays out every week and the smell isnt all that bad ,
> 
> tim


The window was for light, would they not need any light then?

Also does anyone know what size rub I would need for the following:
- Breeding box for 1.3
- A box for the girls to lay their litters and raise them (pref enough space for 2 females)
- Tubs for keeping females and males to grow on to sizes needed.

Can anyone tell me how to fit the mesh to the tubs too? (pics would be great)


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Mattinho said:


> The window was for light, would they not need any light then?
> 
> My shed has a small nightlight window but other than that they get no additional light whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Is it for mice or rats?


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Is it for mice or rats?



Its for rats :2thumb:


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Mattinho said:


> Its for rats :2thumb:


I'd say 33-50l RUBs then.


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

Whosthedaddy said:


> I'd say 33-50l RUBs then.


Is that including the breeding tubs or should they be smaller?


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## timc20xe (Feb 11, 2011)

i was under the impression that you would buy a shed with a window i already , lol 

thanks tim


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## Mattinho (Apr 28, 2009)

timc20xe said:


> i was under the impression that you would buy a shed with a window i already , lol
> 
> thanks tim



I am looking at getting a small bike shed (more than enough space for what I want and expansion) as my garden is not really big enough to get a full size shed. That's why I was asking about putting a window in so they get some light.


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## timc20xe (Feb 11, 2011)

you can buy small 6x4 sheds with windows already fitted for about £99

thanks tim


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