# Falconry



## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Ahoy people!

Just thought I'd ask for a little advice and explain my situation here.

Last year I was seriously thinking about getting myself a Harris Hawk and doing falconry, unexpected problems occured with my reptiles and I was hugely busy around breeding season which put me off it, I know that a hawk would need my attention daily and at the time I wasn't sure if I could offer that.

I work part time, only 3 hours a day weekdays and 9 hours sunday, saturday is free. I have lots of free time to fly a bird.

I have read a few Falconry books, one from Emma Ford the other by Martin Hollinshead which were quite interesting but haven't really filled me with confidence on how to go about working with a bird myself (Although the Mews construction stuff was very useful)

I have also gone out with a few chaps who were using their hawks to hunt rabbit and hare (Never seen one catch one though :/) That was good but again I didn't really learn much or get any real experience. 

One thing to put me off was finding land to fly on, though speaking to Disgruntled on here put my mind a little more at ease over that. 

I've been really put off by the Falconry Forum's last year and since then I pretty much just dropped the idea, it's only theses last few months I've been thinking about it again, although now I'm not sure a Harris Hawk is right for me I think I might need something that is a little more easy on the hunting front I know Harris Hawks get tired quickly if they're not catching and I'm not sure I'd be able to flush rabbit very well lol so maybe a bird which I can fly casually and would be happy to end the day "catching" something I prepared earlier instead..

Another problem I have is I don't yet drive, I'm taking my lessons soon but at the moment I rely on my parents and my girlfriend to drive me around, it wouldn't really be too much of a problem as I do fully intend to get my licence as soon as I get some cash behind me. 

Just looking for some advice here really to be honest, what you guys reckon?


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

I think that your best option would be to try to find a mentor who is prepared to let you help out and learn how to work with the birds. I also believe that alongside finding a mentor, getting permission to fly over land needs to come before you have a bird. Finally I think that you really need to be able to drive before you get your bird - relying on other people is fine in theory but in practise not really practical.

In terms of birds - I would stick with the Harris, get some good land and learn some field craft - birds of prey fly to hunt providing quarry is a key part of your role as falconer


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Have you considered a common buzzard?

Bonny little birds, and very underrated. I adore them, and I think they're very good birds to learn with, particularly if you're not after a bird that's very interested in hunting all the time. Sounds like one would suit you. They do need flying 5+ times a week imo, but it sounds like you have the time for that. They are forgiving, although not quite as much as a harris (in my experience), and they do need more accuracy in weight etc, but I think those are good traits for an experienced novice.

Just keep in mind that chances are you won't always have the same job. Will you still have the time to (and want to!) fly if you're working 6-12 hours a day? Many of the birds of prey can live for a good 20-30 years, so they're a long term commitment.

Best advice I can give is read as much as possible and find yourself a mentor. : victory:


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## IngloriousJD (Aug 24, 2012)

I went on a falconry course with ben long and he really knows his stuff, so i'd do a course like that and get some hands on experience with a different variey of birds and I'm sure he would be able to advise you on what type to go for. He advised either a harris or a red tail for me


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies, I think I'll go on a course, that way I'll get some actual hands on experience and if nothing else it'll be fun


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

if you want a course, generally the only one really worth while is the LANTRA beginning falconry course, you still get some :censor: instructors, but most are decent and experienced. 

cant stress enough how important a GOOD, EXPERIENCED mentor is. those words in caps as if you go to just anybody odds are they'l do more harm than good. iv seen people who've only been flying a year or so offering to mentor beginners. although bear in mind that number of years flying dosent always equal skill.

but be prepared to prove your worth to a mentor, i spent over a month skivvying for mine before he let me touch the birds (behave). the amount of messers getting into falconry now most falconers are understandably wary, so your going to have to prove yourself. sorry if that seems harsh, but its the state falconry is in now.


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## world of raptors (Nov 22, 2011)

I run private tuition courses and also breed Harris hawks, make equipment etc. Pm me would be willing to help you as much as i can hope this helps
Craig


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## Revobuzz (Nov 8, 2011)

A hawk is a really big commitment. 

You may only work part time now, but what are your future plans?

I'm going to do a day's falconry course next year. I may then do LANTRA, but I don't think I have the time to commit to owning my own, so as much as I would love one it's not an option for me.

You might also want to volunteer at your local hawk/owl sanctuary.

Finding land may be easier than you think. 

I'm a paramotor pilot and I am surprised at how many landowners will let you take off from their fields if you just ask them. Just find some good spots, knock on some nearby doors and find out who owns it and then go and ask. 

Not a bad idea to drop off a bottle of wine at Xmas time if they do let you use it.


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Revobuzz said:


> A hawk is a really big commitment.
> 
> You may only work part time now, but what are your future plans?
> 
> ...


Aye well honestly I'm not planning on quitting my part time job any time soon I'm in a quite rare position of doing a silly small amount of hours but getting paid a very good wage for it, and doing these hours makes it possible for me to increase my snake breeding tenfold so for the future I can see I have no intention of changing my job.

I think a course will be my best bet that way I can see if firstly I actually enjoy flying a hawk which I guess is the main thing


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

I did my Lantra back in 2008, I learned loads and even did stuff like making anklets from scratch, coping beaks and taking part in displays. I did mine at the raptor foundation. They are very good and will provide onsite accomodation too.

The Raptor Foundation Home Page


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## debsandpets (May 26, 2012)

Me and the OH we're the first people to take the LANTRA falconry course when it first started. We passed it with flying colours, but working with a mentor was by far the best groundwork for having a hawk. We were flying his falcons and his hawks on our own, and taking fur and feather with them without any worries as he prepared us for every eventuality that could come up.
We got our hawk, and she was free flying and hunting within a month, even going after duck and geese. she worked with our spaniels and ferrets with ease also. She was so confident, and again I think this is because we had been given so much experience with our mentors birds etc.
Unfortunately we ended up having to part with her as we simply didn't have the time to keep her as fit as we liked etc especially for hunting. One thing that made me feel proud, was when Tyree's new owner came to collect her, he was amazed at how calm and confident she was - even with a new person. He also said that we should get a red tail or similar next time around as we had done such a good job with her. She is now a display bird, and also gets to hunt fur and feather with her new owner too. And successfully taken duck, pheasant etc whilst out hunting.
We have over 3000 acres at our disposal for flying, but the year we decided to give her up was a very wet year, so flying was pretty rubbish to say the least.
We will have another bird, but only when we no longer work, as it just isn't fair to have a bird sitting in an aviary day after day doing nothing IMO.

Good luck with what you decide, but I would definately recommend getting some hands on experience before taking the next step.

Sorry, that turned into a very long post :gasp:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I am in a similar situation of thinking really what is the next step after learning all I could alone. 

I have recently found a group of people who work only with owls and was surprised to find the idea of flying the birds was almost completely unheard of. Little confused now as to whether this is the norm with owls.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Kare said:


> I am in a similar situation of thinking really what is the next step after learning all I could alone.
> 
> I have recently found a group of people who work only with owls and was surprised to find the idea of flying the birds was almost completely unheard of. Little confused now as to whether this is the norm with owls.


I think people generally feel less guilty about not flying owls. They seem to be offered as the 'aviary pet'. I have just recently got a barn owl, she was imprinted, sold on, kept as an aviary bird and not really worked with as the guy then found he didn't have enough time for her so we took her on as we knew him. Had her flying free in a couple of weeks. 
I think people don't really fly them is because food goes straight into the stomach, rather than the crop first like the other bop. So you have to be more careful with their response and know how much to feed before they won't want to come back to you. Also there are much easier birds to hunt with


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

Kare said:


> I am in a similar situation of thinking really what is the next step after learning all I could alone.
> 
> I have recently found a group of people who work only with owls and was surprised to find the idea of flying the birds was almost completely unheard of. Little confused now as to whether this is the norm with owls.


it depends on the size of the owl. in order to fly a bird you have to control the weight. this is relatively easy with the larger species such as EEOs and greys, but a nightmare with the smaller species. in terms of what you can fly safely id say anything from little owls up, but even they will test your nerve. flying the smaller species can be done but you need a lot of experience behind you, cos if you mess it up, they wont just refuse to fly, they'l die.

i fly a barn owl, he flies best at between 460g and 465g. fat weight is usually around 500g. yes, he is definitely a male before anyone mentions it. not a lot of scope for manoeuvre, but doable. compare that to the average weight of a burrowing owl (one of the most common aviary owls and one of my favourite species) of 170-214g. cant speak for anybody else, but i think trying to control a flying weight for something that small would drive me to a nervous breakdown. i had enough nightmares over a flying weight 320g female sparrowhawk. never again.


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## debsandpets (May 26, 2012)

We also hand reared a barn owl, and she was always flying free when we took the dogs out for walks. She was better at following on than our HH !!! Lol


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

world of raptors said:


> I run private tuition courses and also breed Harris hawks, make equipment etc. Pm me would be willing to help you as much as i can hope this helps
> Craig


Wish I had a offer like that when I was trying to start out.
I had everything against me and was forced to sell my female hh after just six weeks of buying her..
The bfc removed my membership and because I wanted to know how to neck a rabbit I was branded a anti .
I had everything needed and now only have weighing machine,bath and glove.
I had a double r jess making kit and sound that on eBay with everything else..
My 10x8 shed my wife now has and I van say I met the most egotistical people any one would wish not to know.
Even my so called best falconry friend stabbed me in the back.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## world of raptors (Nov 22, 2011)

jb1962 said:


> Wish I had a offer like that when I was trying to start out.
> I had everything against me and was forced to sell my female hh after just six weeks of buying her..
> The bfc removed my membership and because I wanted to know how to neck a rabbit I was branded a anti .
> I had everything needed and now only have weighing machine,bath and glove.
> ...



unfortunately there are some that are like that sorry to hear your experience was so bad


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## jb1962 (Sep 21, 2009)

world of raptors said:


> unfortunately there are some that are like that sorry to hear your experience was so bad


Thanks..
I think if you can help others it's good.
But maybe in my case my face didn't fit!..
My one regret is selling my hh.. even worse was seller her to my so called friend that later sold her on.. and then told me he has no idea who she went too.
I some times think of buying another hh but just don't know after all that past agro .. I can get land to fly on .. but it's the insurance and the over all cost.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

This will probably be a bit of a unanswerable question but;

Roughly how much time would I be looking at to learn how to do everything involved before buying my first bird?

Are we talking like 4-5 days training or would I need to be learning for months?

EDIT: 

Also! Have been chatting with the missus and trying to be a resonsible adult for once and thinking that maybe a hunting bird is not best for me right now, The main reason I ended up wanting a falcon or hawk was for their beauty and the idea of having a companion I can go out with alot - hunting didn't really come into it - so I'm thinking I might be better served choosing a bird which serves as a good companion but doesn't requite such hardcore hunting and is perhaps a little easier for a noobie to deal with. Was thinking maybe an owl would be a better choice? What do you guys think?


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

You could get a buzzard, they are known to be quite fiddly to hunt and would be quite happy just to be fed by you! Still an impressive bird that you could get flying to you out in the open.


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Disgruntled said:


> You could get a buzzard, they are known to be quite fiddly to hunt and would be quite happy just to be fed by you! Still an impressive bird that you could get flying to you out in the open.


That could be an idea they are very pretty 
I've been reading over and over about the initial training just want to make sure I understand this right..

So the idea is to first get a flight weight, which is apparently the weight in which the bird is eager for food. Then at that weight he should be happy to be hand-fed, so you hand feed him and slowly increase the distance he has to come to your glove by, eventually having him free fly.

The only aspect of that I don't get is how do you make the transition from basically bribing him to call him to the glove, I remember when I was out with the falconry guys they often had to use food to lure him back to the glove but sometimes he'd be happy to just fly back as soon as they lift the glove and whistle.


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

Well, you have to remember that birds of prey are not like dogs, although they will bond with you, they couldn't care less about pleasing you. They only work if they are hungry. The trick is finding a reliable weight and keeping it steady. For example, my harris flies well at about 2lb at present, I gave her a pigeon two day ago and did not feed her yesterday and she weighed 2lb 4oz today. No point asking her to work as she will ignore me.
You learn how much food does what, so if you don't fly her, she will get heavier on a few chicks than if you feed her exacly the same but make her fly for them as she is expending energy. This is why small birds are harder to fly as they can drop dead if the weight goes too low. Much safer with a bigger bird.
Also, things like weather conditions and type of meat all make a difference. You need to weigh the bird at the same time every day, I do it in the morning when I put her out. So, today I know there's no point feeding or flying mine because she is too fat at 2lb 4oz. She won't get anything to eat today and I will weigh her tuesday and see what happens. My own stupid fault for giving her that pigeon! :blush::blush:


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Disgruntled said:


> Well, you have to remember that birds of prey are not like dogs, although they will bond with you, they couldn't care less about pleasing you. They only work if they are hungry. The trick is finding a reliable weight and keeping it steady. For example, my harris flies well at about 2lb at present, I gave her a pigeon two day ago and did not feed her yesterday and she weighed 2lb 4oz today. No point asking her to work as she will ignore me.
> You learn how much food does what, so if you don't fly her, she will get heavier on a few chicks than if you feed her exacly the same but make her fly for them as she is expending energy. This is why small birds are harder to fly as they can drop dead if the weight goes too low. Much safer with a bigger bird.
> Also, things like weather conditions and type of meat all make a difference. You need to weigh the bird at the same time every day, I do it in the morning when I put her out. So, today I know there's no point feeding or flying mine because she is too fat at 2lb 4oz. She won't get anything to eat today and I will weigh her tuesday and see what happens. My own stupid fault for giving her that pigeon! :blush::blush:


Ah that makes sense! 
Though what happens if you're flying her and she makes a kill, I know you have to trade the kill for some food as obviously leaving her with a rabbit is too much food - but if you trade her too much food will she stop responding and end up in a tree? xP


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

Well, it depends how long you want to hunt, if one kill is enough, reward her and stop. If you want to go on, you can only give her something small or she will lose the desire to hunt and further.


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

Disgruntled said:


> Well, it depends how long you want to hunt, if one kill is enough, reward her and stop. If you want to go on, you can only give her something small or she will lose the desire to hunt and further.


I read in Martin Hollinshead book that the Harris Hawk will get rather moody and unresponsive if you cheat him out of his kill, is that the same with all BoP or is it because the Harris Hawk is a pack hunter?


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

Kelfezond said:


> I read in Martin Hollinshead book that the Harris Hawk will get rather moody and unresponsive if you cheat him out of his kill, is that the same with all BoP or is it because the Harris Hawk is a pack hunter?


Goes for most bop, they don't really appreciate their dinner being taken from them


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Kelfezond said:


> I read in Martin Hollinshead book that the Harris Hawk will get rather moody and unresponsive if you cheat him out of his kill, is that the same with all BoP or is it because the Harris Hawk is a pack hunter?


No bird likes being cheated out of food or a kill. I never take food from my harris, and always reward him for making a kill. He's happy enough to trade off from a rabbit after a quick nibble from the shoulder and another piece of food on the glove. As long as you reward each time and don't overwork the bird, you shouldn't have issues.

Having said that, I've never understood why people gloat about harris hawks catching 6-8 rabbits in one flying session. Silly and pointless to me when 1 rabbit makes up 4-5 feeds for my harris. Think it might be a slight ego thing. :whistling2: :blush:


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

LoveForLizards said:


> No bird likes being cheated out of food or a kill. I never take food from my harris, and always reward him for making a kill. He's happy enough to trade off from a rabbit after a quick nibble from the shoulder and another piece of food on the glove. As long as you reward each time and don't overwork the bird, you shouldn't have issues.
> 
> Having said that, I've never understood why people gloat about harris hawks catching 6-8 rabbits in one flying session. Silly and pointless to me when 1 rabbit makes up 4-5 feeds for my harris. Think it might be a slight ego thing. :whistling2: :blush:


That makes sense.
Will the hawk know the difference between ending a hunt on the lure or catching and making a kill - I'm a little worried I'll be really poor at providing quarry for him and don't want him to get fed up of coming down to the lure at the end of the day when he no doubt wants to make a kill. I think that's my main reason for looking at a buzzard instead of a harris ..


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Kelfezond said:


> That makes sense.
> Will the hawk know the difference between ending a hunt on the lure or catching and making a kill - I'm a little worried I'll be really poor at providing quarry for him and don't want him to get fed up of coming down to the lure at the end of the day when he no doubt wants to make a kill. I think that's my main reason for looking at a buzzard instead of a harris ..


IME, no, but others could have had different experiences. They obviously know the difference, but my male doesn't seem to care. My male is a keen hunter but at the end of the day all he really wants to do is have a belly full. He doesn't care if that's a kill, dragged carcass, lure or a meal off the glove. I do try my best to get him a kill when we're out, though, and he seems most content that way. Having said that, my brother's hawk is and always has been a dud hunter, and he's happy as larry going out week after week without even coming close to a kill. 

A pair of ferrets helps dramatically in putting quarry up, you know. :whistling2:


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

LoveForLizards said:


> A pair of ferrets helps dramatically in putting quarry up, you know. :whistling2:


not that i disagree with you, but im sticking my nose in at this point.

yes, ferrets are fantastic for flushing rabbits from burrows and rabbiting in general, but if you dont want them for there own sake, then borrow some when needed, dont buy.


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

I don't have nor want dogs or ferrets, I find that most people who do falconry hunting have one or both of these animals, am I going to be letting my bird down by taking her out with only me to help flush prey?


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

Hiya,

I'm fairly new into falconry, but my advice is find a club, mine meet at a pub once a month and were really friendly, I quickly made a friend and have been helping him with his 21 birds at least once a week. Its a fantastic experience because I get to help with his running of the birds, he doesn't charge and has been doing falconry about 55 years (I'm being conservative) also the club often hunt together now the season is upon us, so their dogs and ferrets can work all day while the birds take turns. The club itself has lots of interesting talks and social events, last one was quiz night, before that was equipment making from scratch, before that was Owl breeding, next month is about red kites. So you get the general idea. Most of the people at the club say that the courses are overpriced and there are too many bad instructors out there and that I made the right choice joining the club.

The author they recomend is Jemima Parry-Jones, although they all agree her dad's books were better, but harder to get!

Good luck!


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## Kelfezond (Nov 20, 2010)

kirstyhorsman said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I'm fairly new into falconry, but my advice is find a club, mine meet at a pub once a month and were really friendly, I quickly made a friend and have been helping him with his 21 birds at least once a week. Its a fantastic experience because I get to help with his running of the birds, he doesn't charge and has been doing falconry about 55 years (I'm being conservative) also the club often hunt together now the season is upon us, so their dogs and ferrets can work all day while the birds take turns. The club itself has lots of interesting talks and social events, last one was quiz night, before that was equipment making from scratch, before that was Owl breeding, next month is about red kites. So you get the general idea. Most of the people at the club say that the courses are overpriced and there are too many bad instructors out there and that I made the right choice joining the club.
> 
> ...


wow the club sounds brilliant, can I come live with you? xD 
I've emailed my local club, hope they reply soon


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Kelfezond said:


> I don't have nor want dogs or ferrets, I find that most people who do falconry hunting have one or both of these animals, am I going to be letting my bird down by taking her out with only me to help flush prey?


Not at all, but depending on your land, you could find it very difficult to put up quarry for a harris.

It's a good idea to get an idea of the land available to you (and get permission on it!) before getting the bird. I don't personally like harris' being kept without at least being given a good opportunity to hunt, and I know many others feel the same, and if it wasn't for the fact we have ferrets and decent land for flushing, I'd have gone for a common buzzard. : victory:


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

Kelfezond said:


> wow the club sounds brilliant, can I come live with you? xD
> I've emailed my local club, hope they reply soon


Lol I do sound like an advert for it :s Hopefully your local club will be just as good! I got an email the day after 1 first contacted them, but that happened to be club night so I guess it was on their mind! If I get boyfriend approval for your cresties, I will bring "training bop" with me by jemima, its good but she has quite a harsh tone - I learned a lot, but not as much as getting hands on with the hawks and falcons 

PS. Moving in made me laugh not sure where you're planning on sleeping, we dont even have a comfy sofa for a nap!


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