# Exotic Keepers? Say Yes



## TSKA Rory Matier

A new petition has been raised which is aimed at all animal keepers - mammal, primate, reptile, invertebrate, aquatic and avian.

As a society of animal lovers we must show to those whom do oppose the keeping of animals and exotic species that we are responsible keepers, that we do have the right to maintain within our collections. 

Indeed as responsible owners we too care for the conditions in which these animals are kept, and that we also agree whole heartily with the need for increased legislation promoting codes of practice, enforcement, licensing where so required, creating awareness, animals rights, but also that keepers have rights.

Not just aimed at private keepers, but also at the traders, manufacturers, suppliers, and retailers, basically anyone involved with the industry.

I ask of you now, to please join us, sign your name, show that support.
I would ask of retailers to have a copy of this in their shops so that we can appeal to the land based market that are not involved with forums so that they too can pledge their support, the same l would ask of forums to sticky this petition post, as indeed would l ask of all Website masters to place a link into their websites.

This petition needs to be signed, it needs to show the opposition and the government that as keepers of animals both exotic and domestic that we are responsible in our ownership, and that we too do care for our animals.

Many Thanks

Rory Matier
TSKA-Rainbow

"Captive care keepers in the United Kingdom believe that they have the right to maintain exotic animal species within their collections. Many oppose the keeping of animals, many more oppose the keeping of exotic species, be these, mammal, primate, avian, reptile, aquatic or invertebrate.

With increased legislation under the new animal welfare act such as codes of practice, enforcement, education, regulation, communication and awareness there should be no genuine reasons for the government to encourage the opposition to continue their campaigns to cease this. 

Responsible ownership and husbandry, promotion of both keepers and animals rights also feature very heavily upon the minds of those that do keep animals privately. All keepers therefore call for support from the government rather than condemnation"

Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers.


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## Zak

Will pass it around relevant friends and other keepers i know.

Government needs to made aware that this isnt a mickey mouse hobby and we are a very serious group of concientious and knowledgeable people.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

This is true Zak.

The two petitions currently in action are specifically aimed at the Government as well as the opposition.

And the more keepers that sign them, the stronger the voice will become.

The more keepers that turn away from this style of approach now, the harder it will be in the future.

The government at this present time view this as a small 'niche' activity.

Imagine that, animal keeping is regarded as a niche community, upwards of 35 million people in the UK keep animals, a mixture of both exotic and domestic alike and many keep both types, and yet the current emotion from the government is that it is a niche?

And if people can not be bothered to sign - well then it just verifies to those whom oppose that it is just that - a niche community.

These two petitions, especially the primate one have already been viewed by the pro keeping political side as dangerous ................ why?

Because apparently we might upset the opposition?

Really .............. ? How is that?

The pro political side to keeping exotics would prefer for us to be quiet, and yet when no support is displayed, this is looked upon as apathy, yet when we try and display support, they become angry and attack us with it?

Why?

Because the opposition in the UK, the anti community - which by the way only number roughly 6 million, can produce much higer results when they produce petitions, from their 6 M supporters and the 15 Million empathists that really don't know any differently.

So they could push come to shove, produce petitions against us in the average of say 18+ million, but in reality, they would only need to procure 100K signatures to have these petitions flattened, and that kind of signature power would prove to the government that we were as keepers whom care, not carers at all.

So the antis can basically get a petition link onto their face books, blogs, websites, lobbying stations, shops, granters and so on, and within a couple of weeks push for 100K signatures.

And do you know what, well Government listens to that kind of talking.

The antis have a singular goal in life - to stop people like us.

Our singular goal?

Who on earth truly knows!

It should be the same as them, but the opposite - to continue to be able to keep exotic animals, be these mammals, primates, reptiles, invertebrates, aquatic or avian.

Is that so hard to want to fight for?

R


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## LFBP-NEIL

well done, this gets my full support has been added to my home page, forum and facebook. It takes seconds to show your support and is very easy to do.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

To all of this readership whom have signed already, l thank you.

With increased legislations since the arrival of the Animal Welfare Act 2007, we must now in this year really show to those whom oppose that we are everything we pertain ourselves to be - that is responsible carers.

There can be no earthly reason for you not to want to sign this petition or indeed the primate petition;

Petition to: 'allow the keeping of primates by private keepers'.

They are here for the private keepers, this is the way forwards for the opposition in both anti and Governmental to see we are genuine in our wishes and desires to remain keepers and not be subjected to the whims of those who think we can not maintain exotics correctly.

Please, sign.

Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers.

Do it now, and you will not have to do it later on in the year.

Sign now, show your support, link it, place it on your websites, place a petition in your local retailer.

The legislation is only going to get harder, currently we have 66 signatures for Exotic Species, and 80 for Primate Keeping. Combined we have 146 signatures.

When the antis counter attack and they will, they could have this in the first twenty minutes!

Thanks For Reading

Rory


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## Guest

signed ..also dont think that this is just" another petition " these people are trying to restrict what we take for granted they WILL continue to threaten our rights to keep anything !!

please sign this guys : victory:


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## paulskin

would you mind if copied and pasted the original post and the petitions on to another exotics forum??


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Hi Paulskin, 

Crikey no, l do not mind at all, l welcome it, let me know the link and then l will also display it here:

TSKA - Rainbow | Exotic Species Consultancy Services

I really want to see as many keepers, traders, retailers, forums, websites, manufactuers, basically as said, everybody involved with the hobby, the keeping, the business. 

We need these signatures to prove to a Government that we are worth considering and we need a lot.

The smoking petition fetched 20K sigs, and still they lost that, and look at how many smokers there are.

Well all keepers of all animals need to sign these petitions, the antis class all animals now as exotics, so that means all of you are NOW classed as exotics keepers.

If you think my writings in political issues and husbandry issues are annoying, then you will hate me at the end of this, but we do need to push for people to sign.

Chris Newman last year brought out this petition:

Petition to: Support Pet Keeping.

It closes tomorrow with 897 signatures!

Roger Davies brought this one out:

Petition to: Hold a public enquiry into the polices and running of the RSPCA.

It closed July 2007 with 2,029 Signatures, and it was beaten

Steve Lovell brought this one out:

Petition to: To Allow the De-scenting of Skunks.

It closes in November and only has 34 signatures

Whether you agree with skunks being descented or primates being kept, is not irrelevant, but the prime factor here is this:

Its time to unite, allow them to ban the keeping of this, prohibit the procedure of that, it is all about reducing the ability to keep animals, exotics.

We are the antis biggest enemy, and they are more powerful than us financially, but not in sheer number of people who support.

Its worth thinking about, but above everything else, your animals are worth fighting for, aren't they?

R

Many thanks

ps: RFUK has 11,000+ members, now allowing for some of those that are double signed, we still have a huge membership here, as do the other forums l have posted on. With those numbers and allowing again for combined membership, this equates to some 19K+ signatures, this as a figure would be staggering for the internet signature power alone!


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## Philcw

Not sure if i should be saying this but, if they ban it they will just be creating 1 more criminal as i for definate will not be giving up any of my reps.
The government can stick it up there ass!

lol



Phil : victory:


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## Bmolle

signed: victory:


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## Malky

Philcw said:


> Not sure if i should be saying this but, if they ban it they will just be creating 1 more criminal as i for definate will not be giving up any of my reps.
> The government can stick it up there ass!
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> Phil : victory:


*high 5* Haha


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## kerridwen

I've signed and if they do ban the keeping of exotic animals they're gonna have to arrest me after the fight because I WILL NOT stand back and allow anyone to take my snakes from me without just cause.


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## dani11983

kerridwen said:


> I've signed and if they do ban the keeping of exotic animals they're gonna have to arrest me after the fight because I WILL NOT stand back and allow anyone to take my snakes from me without just cause.


I agree! My o/h and i have signed the exotic keepers and pets petition so thats two more signatures.


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## Storm Python

*What a petition to pledge allegiance to.*
*Have emailed every reptile keeper i know.*
*Nice one *


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## SiUK

I have signed it, a bit sad to see only 150 signatures TBH, with the amount of traffic on the forum


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## eeji

Nice one Rory  Its time the top nobs were told to lay off beating us up now they've got their new welfare laws in place.

I've signed, and also lifted your original post and reproduced here:

:: Ians Vivarium - Reptiles ::

and here:

Ians Vivarium Reptile Forum : :: View topic - Exotic Keepers? Say Yes

*edit*.... and a load other places too


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## Raiden

Signed too, and to be perfectly frank I'll quit the country and take them with me before I give up a single animal.


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## Kathryn666

Signed. Hope the number of signatures grows dramatically from this forum and others like it. We can't just sit back and do nothing, then wonder where our right to keep our animals has gone!! Kat


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## SnakeBreeder

Signed : victory:


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## Miranda

I sgined but got no confirmation email, i hope that means my signatures still on theree . I live away from town, i wont let nayone take my reps!!!


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## Steve

SiUK said:


> I have signed it, a bit sad to see only 150 signatures TBH, with the amount of traffic on the forum


My thoughts exactly, maybe over the next weeks and months it will really take off. I only found it because i was sent an emial about it.


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## ratboy

Philcw said:


> Not sure if i should be saying this but, if they ban it they will just be creating 1 more criminal as i for definate will not be giving up any of my reps.


What anyone does is up to them...

But it will mean the closing of specialist shops. Closing of internet shops. Inability to get supplies ( What would be the point in stocking specific things ? ), No food unless you can source or breed your own, inability to take your animals to a vet.

The ability for many to keep their animals in the worst case scenario may be out of their hands.


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## ratboy

Only 196.... come on people 

There were over 400 on line the other night !!!


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## Miranda

I signed it! It worked as well. Im goingt o sign dad up form his work postcode. lol, and ask gran and grandad.


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## Bonkers!

Another great read Rory. I'll sign my name now! : victory:

EDIT: Done.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Hi All, 

A big thankyou to all whom have signed the petition .

Combined now we have the Exotic Species at 216 sigs and the Primate Keeping at 85 making for a total of 301 sigs.

Remember this, because the opposition have placed all keepers into the exotic field, this does mean that everyone has been placed into the realm of exotic keeping.

From fancy rats to ferrets to hamsters to mice, to dogs, cats, budgies, parrots, pot bellied pigs, to even those who keep exotic poultry, but lest us not forget the falconry world, they too are included.

We need to be able to deliver as much as a blow possible to those who oppose what we all keep and believe in with a passion.

Within the next few weeks we will be looking at having a downloadable petition for all to print off and take to their shops, around their friends, their clubs and their societies, as well as we will send off to all previously mentioned here.

Email those that you know, link it to websites, but please, in order for us to be heard this is the way we must do it.

Pro Keepers Lobby, made the decision not to charge for private memberships last year, so the only way we can ensure that the private keeper is seen and believed, then this is just one of the economical approaches we must make.

It is cheap, it is quick and it is direct.

Come on, please show your support, and to those that already have.

THANKYOU


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## TSKA Rory Matier

*Nirvana - The Perfect Heaven*

Another view point to look at if you will.

Remember this fact:

The antis - our opposition - do they really believe in the freedom of the animals?

We as keepers do want to conserve in captivity is this is not correct?

But back to those whom oppose us so rigourously - the statement 'better off dead than in captivity' ring any bells?

They constantly preach freedom for the species, but to be honest is not freedom, wearing only your underpants holding a spear running around the Serengeti?

Do the antis really live by their philosophy?

Do they really want to see the animals free - and what is free in their eyes when they use the phrase as above?

Do they really live by their convictions?

It is basically nothing more than the ideal Nirvana for them.

Do they not consider that Governments alone are damaging and terminating the environment with development and in so speaking do they themselves not have the right to ensure that their children grow up in a world with animals but above all - freedom of choice to believe in what they wish to believe in?

So if the grandchild of anti parents wants to keep exotics or any animal in their future, do they not have the right/s to do so?

That is freedom of choice is it NOT?

So RFUK readership - think on this, do nothing, say nothing, sign nothing and then when the Governments and the opposition have ruled the victory, what have you to say to yourself but this.......... 'perhaps for the sake of a sixty second signature, l could possibly have prevented this from happening!'

Show your support, you keep now, it would be nice to think that your children and their children will still have the ability to keep exotic or domestic animals in their futures, would it not?

Do not fall victim to thinking it simply 'will not happen' in your lifetime.

R

ps; Exotic Species 232 / Primate keeping 86 = Combined 418


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## hermannslover

signed!: victory:


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## deano1230

Ive signed the petition as i think that the busy bodys of this world really do not think as what happens to the habitat,and the animals that live there after the goverments of this world are too busy thinking of lining their pockets with the money from the land, without a care in the world just as long as they have what they want thats all that matters, but not to us the keepers, the only thing we care about is the survival of the species which we have in our care and without us the keepers, how many species would be lost with the large scale loss of their habitat, caused by the greed of the worlds goverments yes i would love my animals to be able to live in their natrual habitat but the way this world is going how many more species are going to be lost to mans greed.And untill they realise we the keepers care far more about our pets than they could ever do we are the ones keeping the many species from going extinct and we must fight for all our pets and the right to look after and care for them far more so than any goverment does.:bash:


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## deano1230

:up:we must all sign up to this,come on everyone and tell your friends aswell the more we are the stronger we are, sign up now its for the love of our animals we must sign up for this.


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## lee1980

all signed and ive added the link to my facebook page: victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species 251
Primate Keeping 86
Combined 337

Come on RFUK


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## deano1230

:up::up:Come on everyone we must all sign up to this for the sake of our animals and if we love our hobby which i know we all do we must all sign up now.:up::up::up:


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## Pippy

Signed...they seriously cant take them away can they? Not when theres so many people actually looking after them...unlike some people who use it any animal, particually reptiles, as a popularity statement! :censor:


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## Rico

Signed.

YOU CAN HAVE MY SNAKES WHEN YOU PRIZE THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS.

Sorry I know its not a matter to joke about.


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## deano1230

I know how you feel id fight for the right to keep my animals till they take my last breath away from me and id fight all the way to the courts ,what about the right of the animals whos homeland is destroyed in the name of man and progress who care for the animals welfare then us thats who.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotics Species 280
Primate Keeping 89

Combined 369

Come on RFUK


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## Snow_Man_UK

Signed and circulated.


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## Stubby

Also signed - and blogged about in Myspace.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species 310
Primate Keeping 89

Combined 399


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## Philcw

It could help to post this on the myspace, facebook forums etc... 


Phil : victory:


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## the-reptile-mafia

I've signed it 
NObody is getting my reps off me and never will, my tokay would kill them anyway.


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## deano1230

:up::up::up::up:come on and sign this is our hobby well our love come on everyone we all need to sign this :up::up::up::up:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

*Is 60 Seconds too much to ask?*

Is Sixty Seconds too much?

To ask of a fellow keeper?

Whilst your hobbies are not in immediate danger of being lost, 2008 does signify the year of which many consultations and new legislation is being pressed to being passed that will affect the way you keep your animals now or seriously affect the way you keep them in the future.

Signing this petition is a display of strength and power of our voice. It is not a political statement.

Your politics may be different to mine, our passions for our animals will be the same. We do believe that if the husbandry for our animals is 100% then why should anyone oppose us in the keeping of the species?

But we now need to show the government who in turn will display it to the opposition that we are a community of specialist captive care keepers for exotics and that we are within our rights to maintain animals within our collections.

We need your help, we need your support, please sign at least one of the petitions if not both.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ExoticSpecies/
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PrimateKeeping/

Many thanks for reading

Rory Matier


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species = 330
Primate Keeping = 91

Combined 421

And yes, many of you will have gathered by now, that six of my fellow keepers and myself are now pm'ing you directly to ask for your support.

So l believe to date, X & Y have been completed, and l am working R, but Z, W, U, V, T & S are being tackled.

Many thanks

R


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## SiUK

I still am a little surprised that more people havnt signed it tbh, its not like it takes alot of effort, and too make people listen you need hell of alot of signatures.


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## athy59

Signed Sealed and delivered. ( to the Goverment and other twonks who want to stop us keeping these critters. .:Na_Na_Na_Na


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species so far 354 with Primate Keeping 93 = a combined total of 447.

Slowly we are working our way through the RFUK membership alphabet.

A few people have asked me, why the Primate Keeping petition is being combined with the Exotic Keeping one?

Well it is simple, primate owners are keepers also.

Now as l have said before, you may not own primates, may never wish to own or keep primates. You may feel that primates should not be kept in captivity. But you must consider this, these are a political hot potato at present.

You will have seen that we apply us much pressure if not more to the husbandry required for primate keepers, and why do we do this?

Because primates need to be kept correctly, but so do all the other animal species maintained by private keepers. And that also includes reptile keepers as well.

The need for improved husbandry, codes of practice is needed to ensure that the future of reptiles stays within reach of the exotics keeper.

So primates, they need the help from all the other keeping communities, they need your help, for they pledge their signatures to you , you need to pledge to them, as you need to do for all animals being kept in private ownership, in captive care.

If they [primates] do lose this battle, trust me when l say, reptiles will soon also be on the list awaiting opposition strong attack.

You may not agree with PKL politics, you may not like the TSKA brand, hell you may not even like me. But signing this petition is not to do with those issues, it is about YOU the private keeper of reptiles, mammals, primates and all the other sectors of the keeping community. It is about keeping your rights alive.

It is about making sure your voice is being heard, for if you are not heard then perhaps apathy is winning the day, perhaps way too many keepers are biting into the cake of acceptance?

Perhaps we should not keep any species at all? Maybe we are not worthy and indeed the opposing sides are correct.

I made this petition to strike against the opposition, which is the Government, who in turn can sway the dstances between our ability to keep or not.

The Government are not in favour of exotics being kept, as indeed the same feelings the RSPCA hold, and any number of the opposing anti factors, they want life easy, they want it to be politically correct ..... and exotic animals in their eyes are not pc, this makes them guilty of ignorance.

To the keepers who can not be bothered to sign, don't 'have the time' - dont agree with the 'politics' - does this lack of passionate concern not make you just as guilty?

R


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## Rico

Come on people sign up im the laziest slob on the planet and ive managed it:up: BUMP


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## TSKA Rory Matier

My appologies to the readership if you thought l was 'spamming you' with the 60 seconds too much pm.

Could l ask therefore those who have signed the petition to possibly carry the following in their signature?

Many Thanks

Rory

*Have you signed?*
Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers.
Petition to: 'allow the keeping of primates by private keepers'.​


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Keepers - 398
Primate Keeping - 106

Combined 504 Signatures for two petitions.

As a result of the 'spamming' as it has been classed, the RFUK membership took a figure from 421 - the current.

Whilst l can see why it was classed as it was - sort of - 83 keepers did not object to this style of direct contact. 

A few pointed out to me that in fact they had not seen the post, or had not realised the content , and many others wished the petition good luck. Most contacted did in fact not disagree with being approached in this way as it brought it to their attention.

Next month, we will be taking it into retail and trade and l hope to be able to achieve a possibly unrealistic figure to many of 100,000 signatures by Mid february next year.

100,000 signatures would be incredible for it would show the Government and in turn the opposition that we were/are as we say captive carers of exotic species and not. As much as this figure would be grand, l think even if a petition were to appear that held half of this figure it would still be a blessing.

All we have to do now is await the arrival of the petitions that counter attack these ones, and see what figures they attain.

Rory


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Just to keep you updated.

Primate Keeping petition currently has just over 100 signatures.

The Petition below, began in 2005, it still runs:

Petition-them.com

It has 1627 signatures, okay that may not be a lot since the last signature obtained was Friday 04th March 2005.

It is still active, although no one has signed for some time.

See the petition Introduction:

*Stop the primate pet trade in the UK *


*THE PETITION*
The Monkey Sanctuary Trust, based in Cornwall, is a registered charity, which draws on over 40 years of experience caring for unwanted ex-pet monkeys. The Trust is working hard to raise awareness of and put an end to the cruel primate pet trade in the UK. 

The primate pet trade in the UK is little documented and many people are shocked that it is still legal to buy and sell monkeys as pets in the UK. However, there are an estimated 1500 primates currently living as pets in the UK, sometimes living in garden sheds or bird cages without the appropriate 24-hour care that they need and deserve. All primates suffer greatly from this cruel trade, which takes babies from their mothers to be raised by hand for the pet trade. This early separation is extremely traumatic for both mother and baby as, like us, primates are dependent on their mothers for at least 2-3 years. Primates suffer mentally and physically from being kept in captivity as we can never provide for all their needs and as pets they often face isolation and neglect. As wild animals, they can never be domesticated and are also dangerous and a threat to public health due to the diseases that they can carry. 

Join The Monkey Sanctuary Trust in calling for an end to the Trade in Primates as Pets in the UK. By adding your support to our petition, you will help us to show the Government that there is huge support for this trade to be stopped. 

*DESIRED OUTCOME*
The primate pet trade comes to an end 

*WHO WE NEED TO INFLUENCE*
The British Government, particularly Mr Elliot Morley MP, Mr Ben Bradshaw MP and DEFRA (The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) 

*HOW LONG WILL WE CAMPAIGN*
Until the trade in primates as pets is stopped or the end of 2009 


Chris Newman in March 2005 said this:

Petition-them.com

This petition is quite repugnant – no wild primates are traded in the UK or EU so why do organizations like ‘the monkey sanctuary’ who allege they wish to protect primates wish to see them extinct! The private keeping & breeding of the smaller primates is entirely laudable and to be encourage where appropriate. 

On the 22nd august he received a response:

Liz Tyson

Dear Mr Newman, 

I believe that you are slightly confused about the issues that we are raising in this petition. We would like to see an end to the trade in primates as pets in this country, not to see the incredible creatures that we have dedicated over 40 years work to protecting to become extinct. 

You mention that no wild primates are traded in the UK or EU but you have failed to recognise that ALL primates are wild animals, not domesticated pets, and they suffer immensely at the hands of people who wrongly assume that they can be kept in the same way as a dog or cat. 

Whilst our campaign is focused on ending the legal trade in primates as pets, the illegal trade has, over the years, had a devastating effect on primate populations, with up to 100 being killed for the sake of one "pet" monkey making it over here to the UK. 

I would be interested to find out why you believe our petition implies a wish to see primates become extinct? 

With best regards, 

Liz Tyson 
Education Officer and Primate Keeper - The Monkey Sanctuary Trust 


But the argument still continues into 2008

The fear the pro side have with this petition for primates being raised is that it will ignite the opposition again.

Now imagine when the opposition start one for reptiles ...........?

Should make you think.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Petition Update

Primate Keeping - 113
Exotic Species - 427

Total = 540


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## kitty

*why??*

why target all primate keepers?? there are some very good keepers out there that dont deserve a bad name through irresponsible owners.

surely you could focus your time on trying to get some sort of exam/test thing where there is a home check on time, space knowlege and finance

surely this would be a better route


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## Nerys

kitty

have you, as a primate keeper, signed the petition to stop them banning the keeping of exotics species, including primates?

if you have not signed it, you might as well by saying you AGREE that they should not be kept by people like yourself.

the reason that all primate keepers should be targeted, is that if they are not, they will end up losing their ability to keep their primates..

this means you kitty, or people like you, will not be able to keep a marmoset, as it is a primate, and so you would, in time, be banned from keeping him.

although, tbh, and rory knows my thoughts on this.. i personally don't see a problem with banning the keeping of solo primate in houses..

anyway..

kitty. this petition, these petitions are FOR the keeping of them. if you do not sign them, then you must be against keeping them.. so.. have you signed? and if not, why not

Nerys

and i have to say, i laugh at your idea of the exam/test for keeping them... do you still have yours on his own? guess what, you would not have passed any tests we would have set..

much tho the idea is great, the irony of YOU suggesting it staggers me.

N


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## TSKA Rory Matier

kitty said:


> why target all primate keepers?? there are some very good keepers out there that dont deserve a bad name through irresponsible owners.
> 
> surely you could focus your time on trying to get some sort of exam/test thing where there is a home check on time, space knowlege and finance
> 
> surely this would be a better route


I have just noticed this, from you Kitty, and l see Nerys has already responded.

But whilst l agree that the notion of your suggestion is worthy of applause.

Based on how you currently keep your own marmoset, l can not see how you can conjur up the idea - l too am bewildered.

The Government are against primate keepers, the opposition are against primate keepers, indeed many reptile keepers are against primate keepers.

But Jesus, the one thing every one hates is primates being kept by themselves in the wrong environment - and that is what you do anyway.

Do you honestly think , that if there was a test/exam by the Governing bodies, that you would pass?

Genuinely responsible primate keepers would not pass you.

The codes of practice for primates would not pass you.

If you have signed this petition, have you actually read it and comprehended what it represents?

R


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## Philcw

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> I have just noticed this, from you Kitty, and l see Nerys has already responded.
> 
> But whilst l agree that the notion of your suggestion is worthy of applause.
> 
> Based on how you currently keep your own marmoset, l can not see how you can conjur up the idea - l too am bewildered.
> 
> The Government are against primate keepers, the opposition are against primate keepers, indeed many reptile keepers are against primate keepers.
> 
> But Jesus, the one thing every one hates is primates being kept by themselves in the wrong environment - and that is what you do anyway.
> 
> Do you honestly think , that if there was a test/exam by the Governing bodies, that you would pass?
> 
> Genuinely responsible primate keepers would not pass you.
> 
> The codes of practice for primates would not pass you.
> 
> If you have signed this petition, have you actually read it and comprehended what it represents?
> 
> R


 
Well said Rory 

How are we doing on the petition front?



Phil


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Hi Phil, 

I am not unimpressed with the responses so far in so far as numbers, primate petition launched on the 25th Feb with 113. I recognise, roughly 35 primate keepers there, the rest are obvously keepers l dont know, but the fact is that the support is gaining there from non primate keepers as well.

The Exotic Species petition [launched 28th Feb] is gaining momentum with 435 l think, and l am impressed with that.

As l said before l would like to attain a 100K sigs by the end of the petition period, and if we go landbased, we might, be able to pull this off.

I have said this before, and l will continue to say it to all the readership of this forum and of the others hosting the petition links,

Thankyou

R


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## Philcw

Oh right wel its going good for the exotics, i suppost the primate petition will not be as big as the reptile one as they dont seem to be as popular.

I will help by posting links on myspace forums, bulletins. i will send emails to all my contacts and well...word of mouth i suppose 



Phil : victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Well done Phil, and thanks

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species 455
Primate Keeping 119

Total = 574

R


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## amber_gekko

Just signed the petition, if it wasn't for private keepers some species of reptiles wouldn't exist as they are almost extinct in the wild and captive breeding means that they wont die out like lots of other animals.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Primate Keeping = 123
Exotic Species = 497

Total 620

Cheers Rory


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## sammy1969

Have Just signed both petitions even though i may not necessarily agree with the keeping of primates as such i do know there are some great keepers out there who do treat there animals perfectly and in the correct conditions and they should not loose their right to keep these animals at all. As a responsible reptile keeper es well as keeper of rats and chinchillas who is in a running battle with the RSPCA which is still ongoing and i have recieved yet another visit today See my other post about this. but i am damned if i will ever give up my reptiles without a fight they can incarcerate me first coz they are not getting them any other way.
Sam


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Keeping 556
Primate Keeping 130

When the Exotic keeping petition hits 600 online signatures, we will be launching the petitions for the Reptile stores, and when the show season commences, we will also be launching a seperate target area there.

Many thanks for those whom have supported.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Species - 615
Primate Keeping 134

Thanks to those whom have recently signed these petitions.

Rory Matier


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## mrs snake

Just signed the petition for keeping exotic's. Cant really understand why there are not more sig's on this petition. come on people, sitting on the fence is not going to get our voice heard. 100% support here Rory.


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Keeping 705 Signatures

Primate Keeping 135 Signatures

Many Thanks for your support

R


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## eeji

I'm going to remind everyone on my forum, so it will give the new members a chance to sign too


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## wacky69

signed


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## OrangeMoon

Signed it! : victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Exotic Keeping 742 Signatures

Primate Keeping 140 Signatures

Many Thanks for your support

R


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## stuttysnake

Exotic Keeping 742 Signatures Now 788 & ive just signed.. Lets keep up the presure folks..

Primate Keeping 140 Signatures

Many Thanks for your support

R


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## Pleco07

signed too and fowarded link on to other keepers


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## Steve O'Malley

*Hope this helps*

I registered here today just to say I hope this helps.

Largest UK Directory of Pet Products News, Pet Supplies, Pet Shops and Pet Services


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Thankyou Steve, 

That is very welcomed.

Just an update

Primate Petition 146

Exotic Petition 812

Many thanks to those whom have signed.

RM PKA


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## arthur cooke

Hi Rory,just signed,you're doing a good Job mate.
I'm on the net now, my little Hamlet in Italy now has Wi Fi.I feel that I'm back in the world.
Not many animal rights over here. If there is any thing I can do to help, give me a yell, Im refreshed and looking for a fight.
PM me and I'll send you my email, I'd realy like to be back in the loop so to speak.
cheers arthur


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## alnessman

signed it


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## ant29nhampton

signed as well


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Just an update

Primate Petition 153

Exotic Petition 847

Skunk Descenting 53

Many thanks to those whom have signed.

RM PKA


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Just an update

Primate Petition 156 [+3 in 15 days]

Exotic Petition 862 [+15 in 15 days]

Skunk Descenting 62 [+9 in 15 Days]

Many thanks to those whom have signed.

RM PKA


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## arkreptiles

come on people, why only 860 odd signatures?????


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Just an update

Primate Petition 160 [+4 in 20 days]

Exotic Petition 898 [+36 in 20 days]

Skunk Descenting 70 [+8 in 20 Days]

Many thanks to those whom have signed.

RM PKA


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## Enexus

signed.


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## Enexus

Theres been 3000 views and only 900 odd signatures. Come on guys. Ive made all my mates, family and msn contacts sign this. Keep our hobby alive.


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## Natonstan

Just signed it :2thumb:


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## Enexus

How many sigantures do we need to stop it from being banned? and who the hell is trying to ban it? Can i have a name please?


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## Fixx

Enexus said:


> Can i have a name please?


Brigadier General Tarquin Forbes-Hamilton Smythe III of the 2nd Foot and Light Fusiliers.


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## ichis-mom

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> A new petition has been raised which is aimed at all animal keepers - mammal, primate, reptile, invertebrate, aquatic and avian.
> 
> As a society of animal lovers we must show to those whom do oppose the keeping of animals and exotic species that we are responsible keepers, that we do have the right to maintain within our collections.
> 
> Indeed as responsible owners we too care for the conditions in which these animals are kept, and that we also agree whole heartily with the need for increased legislation promoting codes of practice, enforcement, licensing where so required, creating awareness, animals rights, but also that keepers have rights.
> 
> Not just aimed at private keepers, but also at the traders, manufacturers, suppliers, and retailers, basically anyone involved with the industry.
> 
> I ask of you now, to please join us, sign your name, show that support.
> I would ask of retailers to have a copy of this in their shops so that we can appeal to the land based market that are not involved with forums so that they too can pledge their support, the same l would ask of forums to sticky this petition post, as indeed would l ask of all Website masters to place a link into their websites.
> 
> This petition needs to be signed, it needs to show the opposition and the government that as keepers of animals both exotic and domestic that we are responsible in our ownership, and that we too do care for our animals.
> 
> Many Thanks
> 
> Rory Matier
> TSKA-Rainbow
> 
> "Captive care keepers in the United Kingdom believe that they have the right to maintain exotic animal species within their collections. Many oppose the keeping of animals, many more oppose the keeping of exotic species, be these, mammal, primate, avian, reptile, aquatic or invertebrate.
> 
> With increased legislation under the new animal welfare act such as codes of practice, enforcement, education, regulation, communication and awareness there should be no genuine reasons for the government to encourage the opposition to continue their campaigns to cease this.
> 
> Responsible ownership and husbandry, promotion of both keepers and animals rights also feature very heavily upon the minds of those that do keep animals privately. All keepers therefore call for support from the government rather than condemnation"
> 
> Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers.


we can treat our animals as gold dust and give them everything they need but these animal rights people only focus on the bad keepers and noone ever sees the good responsible people


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## Enexus

Fixx said:


> Brigadier General Tarquin Forbes-Hamilton Smythe III of the 2nd Foot and Light Fusiliers.


wow your hilarious. The first douche ive met on the forum. This is a serious issue that i want to be part of solving and you just take the piss. Real mature.


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## Fixx

Enexus said:


> wow your hilarious. The first douche ive met on the forum. This is a serious issue that i want to be part of solving and you just take the piss. Real mature.


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## gex23

Signed - will pass the petition round my friends and family to gain more signatures.

I hope the government are prepared for a lot of rebellion if they try to cease the private maintainence of exotic animals. I for one (and sure many others) will not be giving my reptiles up without a fight.


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## Enexus

They will make thousands of people into criminals unnessacerily. People will still keep animals and they worst part is that trade will move to the underground where the animals will become mistrated and kept in unhealthy conditions so that people dont get caught. Also WC animals will become much more mainstream as if keeping becomes illegal then so will breeding and that means that CB animals will become much more rare. If the government passes this and bans exotic animals it will be the animals that suffer and neither us nor them want that to happen so im not sure why it seemed like a good idea to even bring up baning the keeping of exotic animals.


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## fatratsandcheesekk

iv signed and passing it around my friends


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## ichis-mom

Enexus said:


> They will make thousands of people into criminals unnessacerily. People will still keep animals and they worst part is that trade will move to the underground where the animals will become mistrated and kept in unhealthy conditions so that people dont get caught. Also WC animals will become much more mainstream as if keeping becomes illegal then so will breeding and that means that CB animals will become much more rare. If the government passes this and bans exotic animals it will be the animals that suffer and neither us nor them want that to happen so im not sure why it seemed like a good idea to even bring up baning the keeping of exotic animals.


and if they become banned or licenced what will happen to the ones we already own becaus i know for a fact that if they become licenced the council will never alow me to have one for ichi as i have already had to fight tooth and nail and nearly had to give my home up for her if they could get her out by not allowing the licence they will then what will happen to her and me as id would kill to protect her


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Just an update

Primate Petition 167

Exotic Petition 943

Skunk Descenting 83

Many thanks to those whom have signed.

[Except for this fella - 
Brigadier General Tarquin Forbes-Hamilton Smythe III of the 2nd Foot and Light Fusiliers]

Rory Matier
TSKA Exotics


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## paulrimmer69

signed


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## SapphireJayde

Signed and added the original post to my bebo, and the petition link to my facebook
Nobody will take my babies away, I'd rather die first


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## James King

Just signed now


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## TSKA Rory Matier

*Update*

Hi, 

FYI: Update

Many Thanks for those who supported

Cheers R
*Have you signed?*​ 

Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers. | Number10.gov.uk​ 
*1011 sigs and closes on the 28th*​ 

Petition to: 'allow the keeping of primates by private keepers'. | Number10.gov.uk​ 
*Currently has 177 sigs and closes on the 25th*​ 

Petition to: To Allow the De-scenting of Skunks. | Number10.gov.uk​ 
*Closed on 86 signatures, and to date no response*​


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Hi All, 

An updater be it later than l originally planned.

Petition to: Support private exotic captive care keepers. | Number10.gov.uk

Submitted by Rory Matier of The Specialist Keepers' Association – *Deadline to sign up by: *28 February 2009 – *Signatures:* 1,033​ 


Captive care keepers in the United Kingdom believe that they have the right to maintain exotic animal species within their collections. Many oppose the keeping of animals, many more oppose the keeping of exotic species, be these, mammal, primate, avian, reptile, aquatic or invertebrate.

With increased legislation under the new animal welfare act such as codes of practice, enforcement, education, regulation, communication and awareness there should be no genuine reasons for the government to encourage the opposition to continue their campaigns to cease this. 

Responsible ownership and husbandry, promotion of both keepers and animals rights also feature very heavily upon the minds of those that do keep animals privately. All keepers therefore call for support from the government rather than condemnation.


Response:

The Government believes it is right for people to own and keep animals provided they can meet the animals’ welfare needs. Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (the “2006 Act”) it is an offence for an owner or keeper of a vertebrate animal to cause it unnecessary suffering or neglect its welfare needs. The 2006 Act introduced a “welfare offence” which means that owners and keepers must provide for the welfare needs of their animals (commonly known as the five freedoms: suitable environment, suitable diet, ability to exhibit normal behaviour patterns, house with or apart from other animals, and protection from pain, suffering, injury and disease). Those that break this law can be fined up to £20,000 or sent to prison. Powers are provided to enforcers to investigate complaints of poor welfare.

Vigorous law is therefore in place to protect captive animals and any new secondary legislation under the 2006 Act to ban or restrict the keeping of certain animals could only be justified if there is robust, peer reviewed and scientifically proven evidence that their welfare is being compromised and the protection provided by the 2006 Act is inadequate. We are not aware of any such evidence with regard to the keeping of primates.

Thanks again to those who supported this petition

Cheers for now

Rory


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## Fixx

Already posted here Rory


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## TSKA Rory Matier

Thanks Ray

R


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## LiamRatSnake

They didn't even use the word reptiles :bash:. There is no evidence regarding primates, what about reptiles?


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## TSKA Rory Matier

To be brutally honest, it is a bland reply, almost very similiar to an out of office reply.

I expected no more and no less to this petition.

Administrations surrounding legislation are on the constant move at present, and whilst in some areas we have a fair response, others open up questions.

Primates are a controversial issue at present, and whilst we know that the government is not looking to ban private keeping we also know that the code of practice long overdue is awaiting release, hopefully this year sometime.

I particiapated in the construction of this code, and l believe it will be very effective if processed. 

R


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