# Cesar Millan on the Alan Titchmarsh Show



## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

Anyone seen this yet?

Well done Alan!!

Alan Titchmarsh you Hero ! - YouTube


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

Made my day! I hate his techniques My mum used to attempt to try it with my dog , ( there is nothing wrong with my dog) and I used to get really angry he is a bad trainer!
-Chels


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Have any of you seen the Tom & Jerry cartoon where they take the piss out of caesar millan?
It's hilarious... He uses the zzzzzzz technique on Tom!

Also proves how ridiculous he is.


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## quentinbobscales (Oct 8, 2012)

He is a dog kicker! I cant stand the bloke!!:devil:

Cesar kicking dogs (Abuse).mp4 - YouTube


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

he is an utter :censor:


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

About time someone showed him for the bully he is

This makes good reading
https://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I like him say what u like he's methods clearly work and them kicks hardly look harsh the dogs don't even seem to notice he's changed that to a tap of the hand but it clearly isn't a hard kick , I honestly don't see what's so bad about him


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## UpLink (Dec 14, 2011)

I used to watch this show quite a but but reading the arguments and reading that linked page I'll never watch it again! Me and the mrs used to say it's a bit harsh sometimes but I didn't realise it was that bad. Bet he wouldn't like my size 12 in his rib cage :devil:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm still not sure it's as bad as everyone makes out , but I notice that website recommend its me or the dog as far as I'm concerned thats awful I'm yet to be impressed by anything she's achieved with a dog


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

Should have gone to Specsavers - Cesar Millan style - YouTube

This video says it all....The dog is resource aggressive, he punches her in the neck while shes eating (How that is going to make anything better I do not know..) Then says he didn't see it coming! HOW?!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

ami_j said:


> Should have gone to Specsavers - Cesar Millan style - YouTube
> 
> This video says it all....The dog is resource aggressive, he punches her in the neck while shes eating (How that is going to make anything better I do not know..) Then says he didn't see it coming! HOW?!


He's trained thousands of dogs on camera this is the only one ive seen him hit if that was a reaction i think it's fair enough the dog doesn't even flinch so doubt it was that hard


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

jaykickboxer said:


> He's trained thousands of dogs on camera this is the only one ive seen him hit if that was a reaction i think it's fair enough the dog doesn't even flinch so doubt it was that hard


Doesn't even flinch? Are we watching the same video? She snarls at him and backs off


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

ami_j said:


> Doesn't even flinch? Are we watching the same video? She snarls at him and backs off


She was snarling before , did he hit her before she bite him ? If ur walking thought the park and a dog bite u what would u do I no what I would to be fair even if they bite my dog I would kick or punch them without hesitation


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

jaykickboxer said:


> She was snarling before , did he hit her before she bite him ? If ur walking thought the park and a dog bite u what would u do I no what I would to be fair even if they bite my dog I would kick or punch them without hesitation


I'm on about the start of the video where she is eating and he punches her in the neck then starts backing her up. Not the way to deal with a resource agressive dog, it will just make the problem worse


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

ami_j said:


> I'm on about the start of the video where she is eating and he punches her in the neck then starts backing her up. Not the way to deal with a resource agressive dog, it will just make the problem worse


I Donno I've never punched my dog or any other but what Ive watched of his shows Ive always been impressed by what he achieves or at least seems too and never realy thought to myself that was too harsh and I'm a very laid bk person with my dogs and kid , put it this way I think super nannys too strict


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## ljb107 (Nov 16, 2008)

ami_j said:


> Should have gone to Specsavers - Cesar Millan style - YouTube
> 
> This video says it all....The dog is resource aggressive, he punches her in the neck while shes eating (How that is going to make anything better I do not know..) Then says he didn't see it coming! HOW?!


In another video that shows what happens after the bite, Cesar says 'that aggression cannot be allowed around babies'... They wouldn't see a lunge bite like that coming either lol.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> She was snarling before , did he hit her before she bite him ? If ur walking thought the park and a dog bite u what would u do I no what I would to be fair even if they bite my dog I would kick or punch them without hesitation


Actualy yes he did hit her befor she bit him, that was why she bit him, he had done the same thing to her off camers earlyer (they owner comments that she didnt react that way the last you 'as in ceaser' did that). 
The dog didnt just walk up to him and randomly bite him, the dog was giving off signals asking him to back off and he kept pushing and bullying the dog so it snapped.
What would you do if some strang guy came in to your house and tryed to take something you prize highly and when you asked him to stop he started acting confrontatonaly/agressively towards you. Would you just say 'oh sorry please help your self to my things' or would you react?



I use to watch him all the time and its amazing he stands there and says to the owner the dog is relaxed when its crouched there panting away, lip licking, ears back with its wide eyes darting about trying to advide looking anywhere near him. Thats not what i call a relaxed dog.

Each to there own but id rather have my dog do what i ask becuase it wants to please me and is happy to do it rather then doing it because its afraid of what will happen if it doesnt. I still tell off my dog if she is doing something she shouldnt but i dont have to use fear to get her to behave. Id only use those types of methods if it was a last resort.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

ljb107 said:


> In another video that shows what happens after the bite, Cesar says 'that aggression cannot be allowed around babies'... They wouldn't see a lunge bite like that coming either lol.


Yeah there is a longer video where he still backs her into a corner after she has bitten...it just beggars belief that he didn't see it coming. Seeing how shut down these dogs get is upsetting, I have a dog who is quite nervous and those sort of techniques would do him emotional damage, and I am sure there are other dogs the same.

Dog training has come on leaps and bounds and there are other trainers who aren't using jabs or kicks or prong collars...or e collars. And they get results.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

jaykickboxer said:


> Ive watched of his shows Ive always been impressed by what he achieves or at least seems too and never realy thought to myself that was too harsh and I'm a very laid bk person with my dogs and kid , put it this way I think super nannys too strict


Yes his methods can work however they work because it uses fear, the dog only lurns threw being punished only using fear, discomfut or pain. Its only reasontly he has started to incorprate reward methods in some of his training his other programs all he is doing is punishing the dog for every little thing even when it it trying to advoid him he will follow it and keep on untill it gets so stressed it cant advoid or fight anymore and gives up. Which is why you often see such extream reactions form the dogs in his programs as they are pushed to there limits.

Not all of his message is bad in my opyion, he talks about owners being more responsible and how dogs need propper exersize and sturcture which is good but his traing methods are stuck in the dark ages of dog training. A case of do as i say or else rather than do this because.

I also dont agree with trainers who say to ignor all bad behaviour and reward good behaviour, I reward the good punish the bad, but you ont have to take punishment to the extream, just a harsh tone of voice works with my girl most of the time and when it doesnt i have my water squirty bottle.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

There is but one thing I actually agree with Cesar Milan: energy. Getting yourself worked up, irritated, frightened, etc... does not help you or your dog. Remaining calm is the best way to train a dog. 
Other than that, I prefer reward-based training where my dog WANTS to do what I would like because they want to please me... not because they'll get punished if they don't.


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## IngloriousJD (Aug 24, 2012)

quentinbobscales said:


> He is a dog kicker! I cant stand the bloke!!:devil:
> 
> Cesar kicking dogs (Abuse).mp4 - YouTube


Complete rubbish, notice how not 1 of them dogs yelped? he's not kicking them to hurt them he's touching them to break there attention



ami_j said:


> Should have gone to Specsavers - Cesar Millan style - YouTube
> 
> This video says it all....The dog is resource aggressive, he punches her in the neck while shes eating (How that is going to make anything better I do not know..) Then says he didn't see it coming! HOW?!


He doesn't see it coming because the dog looks relaxed and just bam out of no where attacks, him, I see that as a dangerous dog which hasn't been trained properly dogs shouldn't snarl as a person approaches there food bowl and for the record the dog snarls before the trainer gives him a dig in the neck which again the dog doesn't yelp so it can't have hurt that much can it?

Caesar has been demonised somewhat of late and I'm not sure why, the work he does with dogs is nothing short of fantastic. For example at the psychology centre none of the dogs look fearful when caesar approaches do they, they want to greet him


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

IngloriousJD said:


> He doesn't see it coming because the dog looks relaxed and just bam out of no where attacks, him, I see that as a dangerous dog which hasn't been trained properly dogs shouldn't snarl as a person approaches there food bowl and for the record the dog snarls before the trainer gives him a dig in the neck which again the dog doesn't yelp so it can't have hurt that much can it?


There's no way that dog looks relaxed! She even snapped at him a few seconds before the bite, he should of backed off then. I watched his shows a few times, some of what he does is pretty good, but then other times its just down right ridiculous. The use of physical strikes to break their attention from the situation is stupid, the same can be achieved safely with a check collar (when used correctly) however I read on one article about him that a dog suffered asphyxiation injuries from some of the techniques used by him. 

As for the yelping, of course it didn't, dogs have evolved to not show pain or injury to perceived threats. Resource aggression has been treated very very well using reward base training, I don't see how it can be justified to use these methods when reward based works so well.


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## IngloriousJD (Aug 24, 2012)

Drayvan said:


> There's no way that dog looks relaxed! She even snapped at him a few seconds before the bite, he should of backed off then. I watched his shows a few times, some of what he does is pretty good, but then other times its just down right ridiculous. The use of physical strikes to break their attention from the situation is stupid, the same can be achieved safely with a check collar (when used correctly) however I read on one article about him that a dog suffered asphyxiation injuries from some of the techniques used by him.
> 
> As for the yelping, of course it didn't, dogs have evolved to not show pain or injury to perceived threats. Resource aggression has been treated very very well using reward base training, I don't see how it can be justified to use these methods when reward based works so well.


Well he looked relaxed until caesar approached him, personally I don't think you should back off from a dog like that because then he will only learn to repeat that behaviour to get what he wants. A check collar (although not as serious) is still negative reinforcement.
They don't perceive him as a threat though, they don't do anything, they don't attack him or cower from him, they look back to where he touched them and then caesar has there attention.
I too don't agree with some of the methods he uses on 'softer' cases but the more aggressive dogs I do. However whatever he does seems to work so I find it hard to argue with his methods. I do believe that his methods SHOULDN'T be attempted by joe public


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

IngloriousJD said:


> Well he looked relaxed until caesar approached him, personally I don't think you should back off from a dog like that because then he will only learn to repeat that behaviour to get what he wants. A check collar (although not as serious) is still negative reinforcement.
> They don't perceive him as a threat though, they don't do anything, they *don't attack him or cower from him*, they look back to where he touched them and then caesar has there attention.
> I too don't agree with some of the methods he uses on 'softer' cases but the more aggressive dogs I do. However whatever he does seems to work so I find it hard to argue with his methods. I do believe that his methods SHOULDN'T be attempted by joe public


The dog in the video attacked him. 

This dog is cowering from him Google Image Result for http://www.4pawsu.com/images/ruby_cower.jpg

If a dog is showing enough aggression to lead to a bite you shouldn't have to back away from it because you shouldn't be in the position to receive a bite in the first place. If that was in this country that dog would be dead because he provoked it. To treat this type of aggression you need to show that people approaching the dogs bowl whilst its eating will lead to a positive experience, otherwise it will escalate (as in the video) There is no way after a reaction to resource aggression in a training session anyone should then go to pet the dog, it is wound up and should be allowed to calm down. 

As you say though his methods shouldn't be used by joe public, even most trainers wouldn't use them. And because of that I don't believe that they shouldn't be broadcast. If a member of the public trained like this and the dog bit, then it would be euthenised... when you consider the same dog could have been rehabilitated using reward based methods it makes it much clearer why I feel so strongly that these methods should be discouraged. I've spent a lot of time around aggressive dogs and with not one of them would I even attempt such extreme methods. When you see the dogs after a miraculous rehabilitation that he claims it's easy if you know what to look for that quite a few are only suppressing behaviors because they know they will be punished if they react a certain way which is very dangerous, you only need a certain trigger and the dog will unpredictably react negatively. Saying that though there are some dogs who genuinely seem to have been rehabilitated.


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

IngloriousJD said:


> Well he looked relaxed until caesar approached him, personally I don't think you should back off from a dog like that because then he will only learn to repeat that behaviour to get what he wants.


Of course the dog would have looked more relaxed befor he approaches her as he is not in her space so no threat, its when he goes near her the problem starts, She gave him plenty to signals to say to him that she wasnt happy and wanted space but he ignored them. the owner said she had not bitten befor and said that ceaser had been working with the dog off camera doing the same as he was doing on camera, the dog who is posessive of her food had lurnt from ceaser's past training that he was going to use confrontation and agression towards her to 'claim' her food and she decided not to take it that time and defended her slef and her food. He taught her that something bad is going to happen if she doesnt let him take her food when he should have taught her that its good for people to be around and handle her food. Now if her owners keep up with that method they will have a dog who is fearfull of what might happen with people come near her food and can at any time decided to defend her self/food which makes her dangerous. If she is taught its good for people to handle her food she will have nothing to fear and no reason to defend. If he had done that she would not have esclated to that level of agression.




IngloriousJD said:


> They don't perceive him as a threat though, they don't do anything, they don't attack him or cower from him, they look back to where he touched them and then caesar has there attention.


I guess you missed the tones of epersodes where his behaviour has gotten him bitten. Lots of dogs have turned and bitten him while he is training them, and on most epersodes the dogs end up showing signs of stress, panting, wide eyes, ears back, head low, advoiding eye contect and looking away, lip licking, shaking, cowering, tucked tail, trying to creap away ect. 




IngloriousJD said:


> However whatever he does seems to work so I find it hard to argue with his methods.


Yes no one is arguing those methods can get results however its a very out of date method that only punishes using fear, discomfout and pain to teach a dog where as there are other methods that are kinder on the dogs and does use fear. Also those outdated domance methods can just teach a dog to stop giving warnings and you then end up with a dog who will suddenly snap with no warnings first. Theres also been reports of dogs getting seriously injured at his centre using those methods.

Its not the destanation its how you get there, either a way that scairs you and can cause you pain if you go in the wrong direction or a way that rewards you for going in the right direction. Both ways get you where you want to go but i know which one i would want to take and if its not something i would want done to me im not subjecting it to my dog unless there was no other choice.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I listened up to the point where the RSPCA complaint was read out.

He maybe bad, but I have never seen or heard reports of CM killing a group of German Shepherds with a captive bolt gun.

Got angry and stopped the video after that.

rspca kill dogs with captive bolt gun and pithing


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Kare said:


> I listened up to the point where the RSPCA complaint was read out.
> 
> He maybe bad, but I have never seen or heard reports of CM killing a group of German Shepherds with a captive bolt gun.
> 
> ...


/sigh, why does everything have to become an RSPCA argument? That isn't the issue at hand! For one incident your not going to take ANYTHING they say seriously? How pedantic! One form of cruelty does not belittle another.


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## Embo (Jun 7, 2012)

I think Cesar's message is one that all dog owners should adhere to. A dog should have rules, boundaries and limitations, be walked enough for their energy level and as someone else on here has stated, the message of calm. A dog should not be allowed to rule the household - it's up to the humans to make the decisions. 

You can't disagree that his theories are pretty much spot on, that we should use _dog_ psychology to train our dogs. Most people do use human psychology and misinterperet behaviours which usually creates problems or escalates bad behaviours. 

I think he is a bit of a muppet in terms of character, especially in recent years - his methods do seem to have become more extreme. If you watch an episode from the first series, he behaves completely different to what he does in the most recent. 

Agressive dogs aside, he has helped lots of dogs overcome fears and obsessions. He has heped so many that would otherwise have been PTS. This can only really be a good thing. He is also helping to spread the message of 'Deed not breed'. 

The old Cesar was awesome - I base my own dog training on his methods. I think all the media hype he is surrounded by has led these same methods be pushed to the extreme - he HAS to make agressive dogs non-agressive otherwise he will be pinned as a failure. He's under a lot of pressure to have these dogs 'fixed' in the space of a 30 minute show, when really he should be admitting it's not as easy as he makes out.

Obviously this has all backfired and just by reading this thread you can see what it's done to his reputation. 

I think it's a shame personally. I've read 2 of his books and he certainly comes across much better than on his show.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Titchmarsh is a brave man, and I think Cesar Milan actually took it very well but he should fire his PR person after that. I think it's brilliant that he was so publicly taken to task in a way that explained to the British public that there were other options which are considered more humane - I'm sure lots of people will now view him differently after having seen that.

I have to say, his 'old school' method of training is how people have in very recent history trained dogs so people will still view him as 'common sense' with that 'never did me any harm' kind of attitude...

The thing is, even if he gets results in the short term, when it all goes wrong again it's up to positive trainers to try and repair the damage and then it might be too late...

Also, I think part of the reason he's so successful with fighting breeds is that they've been taught to tolerate an exceptionally high level of pain, so methods he uses on a stubborn stray pitbull could completely emotionally destroy a nervous bichon etc.

Anyway - his "Walk your dog" message / his posture / charisma / confidence around the dogs are all 'good' things so you have to pick and choose what you're comfortable with but I know that it's not how I would choose to train.

As to being unimpressed by Victoria Stillwell - I think the best thing about the programme is that it shows you have to work at it. Baby steps, small improvements, lots of praise - and really being consistent. 

Of course, this is a much, much harder training option from the human perspective - I try my hardest to be consistent but in reality I am really not very at all but I'm only human and I do my best.


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

This blog is worth a read if you will take a few mins to have a look, play the video in the link of Cesar and the dog bite and read along, it explains exactly what is going on int he video frame by frame, and what Cesar manages to completely miss.

Cesar has no clue what he's doing when it comes to aggressive dogs, shows how utterly useless he is.

Canine Aggression Issues with Jim Crosby: Food Aggression and a Famous Trainer


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

Postcard said:


> Also, I think part of the reason he's so successful with fighting breeds is that they've been taught to tolerate an exceptionally high level of pain, so methods he uses on a stubborn stray pitbull could completely emotionally destroy a nervous bichon etc.


I agree with this, owning bull breeds myself, i can see that he has spent a hell of a lot of time with these breeds and probably started off with Pits and raised around them.

They do require a different level of training to that of most other breeds, and i've seen Victoria Stilwell fail miserably at successfully training bull breeds, as well as other dog trainers. Where they fail, Cesar seems to blossom.

But he should stick to what he knows, and not torture the more delicate dogs by trying to bully them into submission.

I've seen my dogs run full pelt into solid objects with enough force to knock a great dane out, and one of them even broke a leg after running into a wall at speed and they just wag their tails and spin in circles thinking its great fun.
Their pain threshold and ability to shrug off things like that are what set them apart from other breeds emotionally and physically, and sometimes they do require a firm hand, i'm afraid a tap on the nose or a smack on the bum means absolutely nothing to a bull terrier.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Postcard said:


> Anyway - his "Walk your dog" message / his posture / charisma / confidence around the dogs are all 'good' things so you have to pick and choose what you're comfortable with but I know that it's not how I would choose to train.



I agree that there are some great things that he promotes. Even him promoting the idea that problems CAN and SHOULD be solved would hopefully help some dog. 

Unfortunately common sense, and especially dog sense, is far from common nowadays

I agree with the other poster I cannot abide watching Victoria Stillwell deal with dogs, what she writes is great but I cannot watch her, just the memory of one clip of her fake eating out of a dogs bowl, her little finger out in the "I'm drinking tea in a dainty way from a dainty cup and saucer" way annoys me.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Oh dear. Can't say I knew much about him tbh, but he strikes me from that clip as slightly misguided


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## Embo (Jun 7, 2012)

I wouldn't say he's misguided. That video is very unfortunate and I'm sure looking back on it himself he knows that he made a mistake. 

Had he tried to work with that dog 5 years ago, I'm sure it would have been a different outcome. I'm afraid he's become a victim of his own celebrity and is now trying to maintain his promise that he can rehabilitate any dog in 30 mins. 

As a dog psychologist, he is very profound. Reading his books is like light switches being turned on in your mind. But then I'm sure there are others out there that have the same effect. As a trainer - I think he's lost himself. 

Having said that, I still respect him for what he's acheived with a lot of dogs. I agree he does seem to be very heavy handed with the agression cases but if you look at the dogs who are fearful or obsessive, he takes a completely different approach. 

But as I mentioned before, he tackled the aggressive cases in a compeltely different way when he first came on the scene. I actually feel sorry for him.

As for Victoria Stilwell... having only seen a few episodes of her show, I don't really have an opinion.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

can we all not just agree that there have been no good dog trainers on TV since Dog Borstal finished?

Mick Martin FTW! he'd make Victoria Stilwell cry and kick Ceaser Millan's arse. the other two were great aswell, but Mick was the best.


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## kitkat2 (Jul 18, 2012)

miss_ferret said:


> can we all not just agree that there have been no good dog trainers on TV since Dog Borstal finished?
> 
> Mick Martin FTW! he'd make Victoria Stilwell cry and kick Ceaser Millan's arse. the other two were great aswell, but Mick was the best.


Luckily I get the chance to meet Robert Alleyne at the anti-BSL protests  :2thumb:


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

See, Dog borstal didn't do much for me either, they got these typical barbie doll owners on half the time and just enjoyed watching them prance around like idiots, running after their spoilt pooches...

...They too failed to train a disobedient English bull terrier more than a little bit as i remember.

Was alright TV though, and if you understood what they were getting at like half the owners didn't then you'd learn a fair bit from it.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

I watched this and had to agree that Alan was right with alot of his comments to Ceasar and they methods he used. I used to love to watch Ceasar in he first couple of series of his program s the hings he acheived and the methods he used were brilliant nowadays i would not do anything that he preaches as they seem to of become more and more extreme as tie has gone on. I truly feel he has lost his way and shoudl go back to the way he used to be in the beginning as now i do find his methods crueland demeaning to the animals involved


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## retic lover (Sep 23, 2008)

He's a tit ........simple


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## Toady10 (May 17, 2011)

Ive watched many trainers on tv and i think cesar is in a league of his own ive seen many books by him and others and i think he is the best!!!!! i love dogs and ive never seen him hurt a dog. In that video clip it looks alot worse than it is! you dont punch with your thumb sticking out.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Toady10 said:


> Ive watched many trainers on tv and i think cesar is in a league of his own ive seen many books by him and others and i think he is the best!!!!! i love dogs and ive never seen him hurt a dog. In that video clip it looks alot worse than it is! you dont punch with your thumb sticking out.


Watching that same video clip in another link posted it doesn't look no where bear as bad


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