# European Venomous questions



## axlandslash44x (Jan 3, 2008)

Does anyone have any good websites or deocuments to help me understand exactly which Venmous snakes we have here in Europe.

ive found one on european snakes but it doesnt cover many venomous types

i want to know what types - where they live - as much detail as possible - what they look like 

if anyone can help me id appreciate it

also i want to know if its only vipers we have here in europe - do we have any other venmous such as elapids (sp)


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

only true vipers, Miqe is the man to ask on this, he knows his stuff when it comes to europeon herps 

Terrarium Morbidum - Captive Bred European Herptiles


----------



## axlandslash44x (Jan 3, 2008)

What is meant by true vipers?

I will keep bumping this thread untill he replies - if he has the time

its good that this forum has experts (sp) in most areas

well, not experts - but people who can help


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

he doesnt post here so much, but thats his site in the link, by true vipers I mean not pitvipers which come from Asia and America with heat sensitive pits, true vipers dont have these, true vipers is probably a bit of a misleading term really.


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Hi there. Aside from the "true" viper genera (_Vipera_ and _Macrovipera_) that occur throughout Europe there are a handful of other venomous species. How many exactly obviously depends on what your definition of "Europe" is.

The range of _Agkistrodon_ _halys_ does enter the very southeasternmost limits of Europe. This is as far as I am aware the only pit viper that can be said to naturally occur in Europe.

Also, there a few opisthoglyphous species that occur in southern Europe. The only one of any medical importance is the Montpellier snake _Malpolon_ _monspessulanus_, a large and impressive colubrid that is found throughout the Mediterranean and reaches up to about 2 metres (though I personally have never seen one that big in Iberia. I believe the largest examples are found in the eastern part of the range). This species is on the DWA list over here.

There is also the Cat snake _Telescopus fallax_ in southeast Europe, a smallish crepuscular species.

Finally, the Hooded Snake or False Smooth Snake _Macroprotodon_ _cucullatus_ (=_brevis_?) occurs on the Iberian peninsula, southern France and some of the Balearic islands.

That's it off the top of my head. Then there's all the _Vipera_ species (and subspecies, of which there are many!) plus _Macrovipera._


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

i didnt know that i thought there was no pitvipers in europe you learn something new everyday


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Although to be fair I'm pretty sure that the whole _Agkistrodon_ complex has been under review to differentiate the N. American species from all the Asian species (there are a few in China too). It may well be that it is no longer called "_Agkistrodon" halys_, I think I'm going to go have a look at that now.


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

OK, it is now named _Gloydius halys_. There's also _Gloydius saxatilis_ present in Siberia, but that's pushing it as far as being "European"...


----------



## vikki_john (Jul 16, 2007)

Pm me ad i can get you some good documents regarding venomous snakes in europe etc.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

ah yeah I did wonder if it was Gloydius halys, is that found in europe though?


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

As I say, it depends on your definition of "Europe". :Na_Na_Na_Na:

With all the changes to boundaries that have gone on it's pretty debatable. If you take the Ural mountain range as the natural border between Europe and Asia, then no in the strictest sense this species does not cross that range.

However, it has been recorded from the Caspian region which I would say is part of Europe.


----------



## axlandslash44x (Jan 3, 2008)

OK thank for all your excellent replies

you have a PM matey

I have another question

I read a post by someone before who said they went somewhere possibly cypress looking for vipers - once found they imported some?

also people like viperkeeper (not sure if he took speciemns though) and someone who posts on here - travelled to Komodo here and got some specimens - can you do this with any non protected species?

not that i want too


----------



## ashrob (Jul 27, 2007)

theres the english adder =D :lol2:


----------



## Snake_Pliskin (Apr 7, 2008)

work colleague just got back from some fishing week in france and mentioned the montpellier snakes and that they were everywhere where they was fishing and were a slight problem being aggressive and constantly where they were etc being a nuissance.. id love one personaly, lol.. dont know why they would be on dwa as theyre rear fanged and according to looking at their venom it doesnt cause death etc.. just pain, swelling and feel lathargic..


----------



## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

montpellier snakes are an odd one. i came across quite a few malpolon in corfu and greece, and they are good fun. congest one i measured at 214cm. stunning snakes as well, with their distinctive eyebrows.

their venom is no more toxic than that of some boiga's - so i think it should not be on the list. then again some agrue that many boiga's should be on the list. matter of opinion, mine being Malpolon montpellismus shouldnt be on that list if certain boiga's arent on it

Alex


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I dunno, I've heard of some unpleasant side-effects from _Malpolon_ envenomations, the venom seems to be rather elapid-like... though there haven't been any deaths as far as I am aware (although historically several have been attributed to it - almost certainly erroneously. There is a lot of folklore surrounding this snake in Spain!).

They are great snakes though, most tame down very well and are very alert and active animals. I prefer the youngsters, they are much more slim and elegant-looking... some of the adults can appear positively rotund! Also the juvenile coloration is prettier!

Wild adults can give one heck of a threat display, but only when cornered, this snake is extremely alert and quick and almost always disappears like lightning when it sees you. In southern Spain it is the only snake that is regularly active in the full-on heat of a summer day.

Very interesting snakes, they have glands beneath their eyes that they use to rub their bodies with, apparently it waterproofs their skin! If you have the chance to acquire one, do so - they are just the dog's b:censor:ks in a large sandy terrarium with some flat rocks.


----------



## Snake_Pliskin (Apr 7, 2008)

might sound like a dumb question.. Malpolon monspessulanus.. what family are they from,.. surely not viper as thought vipers are front fanged!


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Colubridae, Psammophiinae


----------



## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

Or the "_Culebra Bastarda_" in Spanish :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## muru (Apr 27, 2008)

> also people like viperkeeper (not sure if he took speciemns though) and someone who posts on here - travelled to Komodo here and got some specimens - can you do this with any non protected species?


firstly it would not be possible to import from komodo.
also if you are refering to myself and azemiops we have travelled to komodo and did catch a single C. Insularis but for photography purposes only, anything caught is always released.


----------



## axlandslash44x (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks fella's


----------



## Morbid (Dec 11, 2006)

If you go to my site ( Welcome to Terrarium Morbidum, Captive Bred European Herptiles. ), and hit the link on your left hand side that says "European species tree", scroll down to the bottom, you´ll find European vipers. This page is not completed yet, as the Caucasian species is not in the list..

Hope it helps some..


----------

