# T's Vs Trues



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Ok i've noticed a few more people seem to be moving towards to the true spider side of the hobby, so i thought i would try a poll! Let's see how much trues are starting to catch up a little bit, and hopefully if trues get a good score then maybe shops will stock more of them...

So get voting on your favorite!


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## herper147 (Feb 7, 2009)

i would have to go with Ts just because of variety and also availiability


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

herper147 said:


> i would have to go with Ts just because of variety and also availiability


But variety wise there are about a billion and trillion more true spiders than T's. Just sadly not all are available in the hobby yet


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## herper147 (Feb 7, 2009)

very true i think in the shops i been to i have seen about 5 true spiders but they were hidden away behind Ts so people dont really get a chance to see them

also for me for some reason little spiders with skinny legs i find creepy but im fine with Ts


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## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

I will always keeps Ts but spiders have to be the most interesting and there is much more variety. Spiders for me.


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

I went with T's but hell Why not both  have your cake and eat it.


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

You seem to of missed whole families of arachnids ! 

What about the other mygalomorphs ?


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Mutley.100 said:


> You seem to of missed whole families of arachnids !
> 
> What about the other mygalomorphs ?


Because right now it's about the two that most people keep trues or T's. This threads just a basic outline of what people seem to prefer at the moment because i have seen a few people turn to trues


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## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

sorry but its gotta be T's for me : victory:


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## Mutley.100 (Nov 3, 2008)

I'll stick with mygales so I've got to go for T's . 

It's not just T's though , I think my new Acanthognathus's are pretty cool too .


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

Trues : victory:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Muze said:


> Trues : victory:



Were getting our asses kicked at the minute  

I don't think 25% is a bad figure so far though, if it finishes anything more than 20% i think that shops need to take a look and see that there is a market for trues


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## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

I wouldn't let the poll results put you off getting more shops stocking spiders, a lot of people don't realise that the world of spders is far bigger and more varied than the they imagined. They will cotton on soon enough


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## RAZZ-MCFC (Jan 25, 2010)

Kamike said:


> I wouldn't let the poll results put you off getting more shops stocking spiders, a lot of people don't realise that the world of spders is far bigger and more varied than the they imagined. They will cotton on soon enough


i put T's but i like them both the same, you should of put an option of both 

i only put T's because that's what i've got more of


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

RAZZ-MCFC said:


> i put T's but i like them both the same, you should of put an option of both
> 
> i only put T's because that's what i've got more of


Yeah there should of been a both but no matter how much you think you like them both there's normally a favorite..


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## Theevilreddevil (Oct 30, 2008)

trues do nothing for me, imma tarantula kinda guy: victory:


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## invertasnakes (Feb 1, 2009)

I think the main reason that people choose T's (like me) is because of availability. Not of just the spiders themselves but also the information and knowledge about them. As you said theres billions of trues out there but so little is known about them that people just don't either appreciate them or even get to see them. Yeah we all heard about that huntsman getting renamed as a "david bowie" but thats only because of what he was named. Think of the 100's if not 1000's of new species found over the past years that no-one has or ever will hear of or see. 

For me my collection consists of way more T's than trues but the fact that i've got both shows that i appreciate arachnids as a whole, as i'm sure 100% of any spider keepers will admit to on here. : victory:


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## RAZZ-MCFC (Jan 25, 2010)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yeah there should of been a both but no matter how much you think you like them both there's normally a favorite..


well going off overall since i've been into the hobby i definitely chose the right answer

but if you was asking about currently-past year it'd definitely be trues

beginning of the year i had no interest in them whatsoever but now my wishlist has more trues than T's on it and like others on here i do find trues more interesting, each 1 has their own behaviour pattern which is fascinating


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

One problem is the bulk of araneomorphs don't have the life span of most mygalomorphs, long life span is one of the main pulls of T's trapdoors ect over even the large and showy aranemorphs.


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## tokay (Mar 13, 2007)

I voted T's only because ive always kept them since i was a kid , but i love arachnids , will probly get into trues sooner or later ... just a shame there not as readily available as T's yet


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## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

I found a fairly big Tegenaria crawling across my wall a week or two ago and found myself asking which was better out of trues and tarantulas. Chucked it in with an L. para of equal legspan....




.... L. para f**ked the true up big time :no1:


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)




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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Willenium said:


> I found a fairly big Tegenaria crawling across my wall a week or two ago and found myself asking which was better out of trues and tarantulas. Chucked it in with an L. para of equal legspan....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Throw yourself in next time, only make it a polar bear or something.


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## elliot ness (Oct 5, 2008)

The only true spids worth keeping,as far as I am concerned are the not so safe kind.
You also forget about Mygalomorphae which include some cracking spids.....my fav. being M.gigas which I have kept myself and can vouch for 100% as being an excellent spid .....as well as being not so safe.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

elliot ness said:


> The only true spids worth keeping,as far as I am concerned are the not so safe kind.
> You also forget about Mygalomorphae which include some cracking spids.....my fav. being M.gigas which I have kept myself and can vouch for 100% as being an excellent spid .....as well as being not so safe.



Yeah i've kept a few of these M. gigas and i have to say that there amazing spiders! But then again i love all Macrothele sp. It's hard to say which of the two these would come under, i would think of them as true spiders....


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## elliot ness (Oct 5, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yeah i've kept a few of these M. gigas and i have to say that there amazing spiders! But then again i love all Macrothele sp. It's hard to say which of the two these would come under, i would think of them as true spiders....


They are definately not true spiders mate......I would put money on it.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

elliot ness said:


> They are definately not true spiders mate......I would put money on it.


Nah there not, but i think if most people were to ask to list them in the two we have here, they wouldn't thnik of throwing them in with the T's


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

Willenium said:


> I found a fairly big Tegenaria crawling across my wall a week or two ago and found myself asking which was better out of trues and tarantulas. Chucked it in with an L. para of equal legspan....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If i chucked an L.para in with one of my phoneutria AF bet the outcome would be vastly different (not that i would ever even contemplate this...words just fail me...):whistling2:

Muppet...


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

elliot ness said:


> They are definately not true spiders mate......I would put money on it.


They are mygalomorph spiders...which means their fangs work in a downward direction rather than from the side.

Same as T's fangs work.


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## tarantulamatt (Nov 12, 2009)

Ts all the way :notworthy:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

TBH I think the perception of "trues" in the hobby is a bit biased anyway. Everyone seems to equate true spiders as being fairly large fast things when n reality they account for a tiny proportion.

IMO no-one here is properly into "trues" rather than specific small families within them. I bet no-one here is going to suddenly develop a passion of Oonopidae or Linyphiidae, or even genera like Eros or Phos. It's all very well liking Ctenids or Sparassids but they are just the tip of the iceberg.


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

Willenium said:


> I found a fairly big Tegenaria crawling across my wall a week or two ago and found myself asking which was better out of trues and tarantulas. Chucked it in with an L. para of equal legspan....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will, that's horrible. I thought the other forum you post on regularly was called arachnophiles, not just tarantulaphiles


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## PRS (Dec 31, 2007)

Used to keep a lot of T's, but since I've been back I'm focusing more on scorps and trues.

I'd have to go with trues :2thumb:


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB;6398425
IMO no-one here is properly into "trues" rather than specific small families within them. I bet no-one here is going to suddenly develop a passion of Oonopidae or Linyphiidae said:


> Thats just your opinion :whistling2:
> 
> You dont know what i or the next person keeps or has a passion for.


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

*a perception*

Some good points - especially in my opinion from invertasnakes and also ordeus. the thing about "availability" is one thing but what about dedication to c/b programmes etc... It's a pity most of the true spids enter the hobby as imports and a lot of them perish in transport - same with the demand for certain species of tarantula etc. Research is one thing ( although I still can't see the appraisal of fogging techniques etc ) but where there is money to be made there are a myriad of collectors in the tropics and Asia who aside from the impoverished matrix of surrounding existance will over-collect and also collect species that are CITES or even unclassified. Sure there are some that slip by the Researchers' 'sensible reward' etc. 

Some areas of habitat have already been destroyed and the last act sometimes is a species originating in that area in the hands of one of us lot !!! :bash: (yes! - no! yes! no! yes! no! yes yesss! - no no no no no!!)

Don't want the back-lash of captive bred T origins etc but tbh it's my opinion that certain species should NOT ever be imported - even to begin a c/b programme and a pet-trade/hobbyist market. SIMPLES eeek 

Longevity of Tarantulas on the other hand is one factor I think that is appealing to us lot - whilst most Trueys perish after a season - mated or not. Of course generating any critic only has other doors open. 

(G' bless & G' damn !!!)


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## Lucky Eddie (Oct 7, 2009)

T's for me.

I've got enough trues in my shed.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Thats just your opinion :whistling2:
> 
> You dont know what i or the next person keeps or has a passion for.


I didn't mean it as a negative thing, but it's generally true. How many people can identify 1/10th of the UK species yet want to sell themselves as "true spider afficionados"? 

To me, ignoring the wealth of species outside your own doorstep and complaining about a lack of availability in the hobby makes no sense since we are surrounded by them, easily collectable, many species still awaiting even basic details of their ecology explored. 

It's all very well being clued up on foriegn species (not a bad thing at all) but these recent threads do make it seem like it's a bit of a "new" direction for the hobby when in actual fact before we had tarantulas imported, our UK spiders were about all one could keep.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> TBH I think the perception of "trues" in the hobby is a bit biased anyway. Everyone seems to equate true spiders as being fairly large fast things when n reality they account for a tiny proportion.
> 
> IMO no-one here is properly into "trues" rather than specific small families within them. I bet no-one here is going to suddenly develop a passion of Oonopidae or Linyphiidae, or even genera like Eros or Phos. It's all very well liking Ctenids or Sparassids but they are just the tip of the iceberg.


But this thread isn't about all familys of 'trues' or T's or whatever, it's about what people see as there favorites and what they wish to keep. Because saying people wouldn't be in keeping some of the smaller true spiders is true, but again that goes for T keepers aswell, because you aren't into pokies... So basically same thing applies to each section within the hobby, you have your favorites and you have those you aren't to keen on. Basically this thread is for people look at what they have, and then try to think what they would like more of, and what they find facinating


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> But this thread isn't about all familys of 'trues' or T's or whatever, it's about what people see as there favorites and what they wish to keep. Because saying people wouldn't be in keeping some of the smaller true spiders is true, but again that goes for T keepers aswell, because you aren't into pokies... So basically same thing applies to each section within the hobby, you have your favorites and you have those you aren't to keen on. Basically this thread is for people look at what they have, and then try to think what they would like more of, and what they find facinating


True enough. 

I suppose my main point was that people tend to ignore the UK species and then complain there are no "trues" in the hobby. Also, it's not a new thing to keep true spiders hence, not the "future" of the hobby. If anything, its where the tarantula hobby stemmed from and has always existed in the background.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> True enough.
> 
> I suppose my main point was that people tend to ignore the UK species and then complain there are no "trues" in the hobby. Also, it's not a new thing to keep true spiders hence, not the "future" of the hobby. If anything, its where the tarantula hobby stemmed from and has always existed in the background.


Yeah, but i'm one of those that keep a few of our native species. I would like to see a few more of the larger 'huntsman' to come onto the market as i think these are what would get a lot more interest


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> True enough.
> 
> I suppose my main point was that people tend to ignore the UK species and then complain there are no "trues" in the hobby. Also, it's not a new thing to keep true spiders hence, not the "future" of the hobby. If anything, its where the tarantula hobby stemmed from and has always existed in the background.


I certainly keep quite a few UK sp and know plenty of other keepers on RFUK that also do..and never "complain" as you put about trues not being available. I say that i would *like* a larger range of exotic sp available...but i dont "complain" as you put it


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

GRB said:


> I didn't mean it as a negative thing, but it's generally true. How many people can identify 1/10th of the UK species yet want to sell themselves as "true spider afficionados"?
> 
> To me, ignoring the wealth of species outside your own doorstep and complaining about a lack of availability in the hobby makes no sense since we are surrounded by them, easily collectable, many species still awaiting even basic details of their ecology explored.
> 
> It's all very well being clued up on foriegn species (not a bad thing at all) but these recent threads do make it seem like it's a bit of a "new" direction for the hobby when in actual fact before we had tarantulas imported, our UK spiders were about all one could keep.





GRB said:


> it's not a new thing to keep true spiders hence, not the "future" of the hobby. If anything, its where the tarantula hobby stemmed from and has always existed in the background.


Yes very true on both counts, therids were my first spiders I kept as a child and still one of my great loves, and yet I think I still know more about theraposids then I do about just about any of our native theridiidae :blush:


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

The first spider i ever kept aged 2 or 3 was your ordinary garden orb weaver. If it wasnt for that spider i doubt i would ever have gone on to keep the T's and the trues and maybe even the other inverts i keep.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> I certainly keep quite a few UK sp and know plenty of other keepers on RFUK that also do..and never "complain" as you put about trues not being available. I say that i would *like* a larger range of exotic sp available...but i dont "complain" as you put it


Not really sure why you are taking it personally when it's general statements, but hey ho...: victory:

As they tend to involve more WC and more fatalities, I suppose I'm actually somewhat against pushing the imports too greatly. There's quite a few species if you look around, but then I feel the same way for tarantulas too (there's more available than most could ever hope to care for properly or become knowledgable in); seems most people are seldom content with what is available however and are seeking the next new thing.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Not really sure why you are taking it personally when it's general statements, but hey ho...: victory:



Not really taking it personally (dont take anything said on here personally...believe me)...just you seem to like making sweeping generalisations. But hey ho :whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Not really taking it personally (dont take anything said on here personally...believe me)...just you seem to like making sweeping generalisations. But hey ho :whistling2:


That's what they were - generalisations...


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

True spiders just seem far more interesting, anything a T can do a True spider can do more interesting.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

dEsSiCaTa_UK said:


> True spiders just seem far more interesting, anything a T can do a True spider can do more interesting.


Exactly, it's not about size as most of the women i've been with will tell you, it's about what they can do, and the hunting skills of true spiders are a lot classier and more blood thirsty than that of a T



Oh and there was a joke in there.....


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> That's what they were - generalisations...



But generalisations for a whole community of keepers are never going to be right, you could have people who have never even heard of the genus Tegenaria and you could have people who keep every native species possible and species from around the globe, generalising such a wide group will do nothing but be wrong, you never like to be wrong Grant, so why generalise? :whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> But generalisations for a whole community of keepers are never going to be right, you could have people who have never even heard of the genus Tegenaria and you could have people who keep every native species possible and species from around the globe, generalising such a wide group will do nothing but be wrong, you never like to be wrong Grant, so why generalise? :whistling2:


Well mainly it's because I did not intend my generalisations to be offensive - from where I'm staning, we have a community of people who know more about dozens of species from everywhere except the UK. 
So, I don't think it's unfair to generalise and say that most people don't know that much about araneomorph spiders on the whole rather than specific hobby genera since the UK has a good selection of what "normal" araneomorph spiders are like, since the big flashy ones are somewhat outnumbered worldwide by the small, uniform brown / black ones etc. 

Basing an opinion on Araneomorph spiders based only on the "hobby sexy ones" is kind of biased, and I meant this to be my main point - to me, being really into araneomorph spiders would include a good overveiw of the entire selection, and also being aware that the hobby species are like the "Celebs" of the Araneomorphae (not saying we have them all in culture, but a few) whereas the vast majority of species are very cryptic and not at all desirable to the average hobbyist. I can understand the appeal of these species, but to me these are not the nuts and bolts of what the Araneomorphae actually are. 

Anyway, I'm a scientist, massive sweeping generalisations are what we do (they just get more refined as more people disagree with their own generalisations!) :lol2:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Willenium said:


> I found a fairly big Tegenaria crawling across my wall a week or two ago and found myself asking which was better out of trues and tarantulas. Chucked it in with an L. para of equal legspan....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was looking for a picture to best describe how i feel about you right now


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Iv never kept true spiders so have had to vote on Ts. Am very interested in getting hold of some orange huntsmans tho.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Spiders do eat each other a lot in the wild, but frankly that's one area of nature I don't replicate.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

fantastic tim. hope the person who posted bout chuckin the spider in with his t was joking.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Spiders do eat each other a lot in the wild, but frankly that's one area of nature I don't replicate.


Nope as were all meant to be lovers of all thing Arachnid



SkinheadOi85 said:


> fantastic tim. hope the person who posted bout chuckin the spider in with his t was joking.


And sadly i don't think he was joking! So i keep stewing on it :|


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Nope as were all meant to be lovers of all thing Arachnid
> 
> 
> 
> And sadly i don't think he was joking! So i keep stewing on it :|


I've seen worse tbh, it seems to be a fairly common practice in the US at least to feed excess spiderlings of cheap tarantulas to others. Makes you wonder what the hell the point of breeding them is.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Is a bit shocking but nothing anyone can do sadly as (i do believe it still stands) bugs etc aren`t covered by cruelty laws are they??? Sure i read bout it on here when someone posted a link to a bugfighting website and showed there disgust(rightly so may i add) at people butting all kind ov "creepie crawlies" in together to fight think it was a jap site

Sorry Tim ive totally taken your post away from Its orginal point

I however would vote T`s as ive never really had much run ins with trues...dont get them often in my house


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Lol it's ok, none of my threads stay on topic  But you should perhaps look at taking a house spider in as a pet, you'll be surprised how much you'll enjoy it


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> I've seen worse tbh, it seems to be a fairly common practice in the US at least to feed excess spiderlings of cheap tarantulas to others. Makes you wonder what the hell the point of breeding them is.



Not to cause trouble...but the difference between feeding these and crix and locusts is???:whistling2:


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Had one in my old house (my daughter who is 3 soon) came over to me with it in a cup asking if she could keep him. Only kept it for few weeks (then released him again) as I didnt like the idea of keepin it in a box basically as he had free run ov the house before she got hold him lol


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Muze said:


> Not to cause trouble...but the difference between feeding these and crix and locusts is???:whistling2:


I think its just people see crix and locusts etc as feeder species.....I buy 1st level locusts grow them on and use as food and am loking at setting up breeding programme.

I see what your saying just i think people get in cases attatched to other types of animal easier.

Its the old thing with in China Dogs are used for meat but here alot of people are weirded out by it,,,its all down to what you feel a bond too i guess.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I only feed native species such as spiders and moths to my praying mantids


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

selina20 said:


> I only feed native species such as spiders and moths to my praying mantids


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! the poor spiders:bash:, feed them some mice, lizards, snakes, wombats ect for the love all that is good. 

Of course I don't care at all but I just thought id be one of the first to have a go about it after thinking back to the bull ant vid thread..


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Oderus said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! the poor spiders:bash:, feed them some mice, lizards, snakes, wombats ect for the love all that is good.
> 
> Of course I don't care at all but I just thought id be one of the first to have a go about it after thinking back to the bull ant vid thread..


:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2: :flrt:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Will people please stop feeding spiders to other things? Aren't we meant to all be spider lovers???


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## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

Wow, quite a strong reaction to my original post. Didn't think it'd go down quite like that but then again, in hindsight a lot of people have stronger feelings about trues than I do. Sorry to have offended anyone. For me I will always prefer T's, not particular reason why, they just do so much more for me and I have always found them fascinating in general.

In defence of true spiders, I did have an African Huntsman that was pretty cool to watch feeding and cleaning itself


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Willenium said:


> Wow, quite a strong reaction to my original post. Didn't think it'd go down quite like that but then again, in hindsight a lot of people have stronger feelings about trues than I do. Sorry to have offended anyone. For me I will always prefer T's, not particular reason why, they just do so much more for me and I have always found them fascinating in general.
> 
> In defence of true spiders, I did have an African Huntsman that was pretty cool to watch feeding and cleaning itself


Well i prefer my trues than i do you, so how about we feed you to something?


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Think it got the strong response will cos as was mentioned people get fond of different bugs in different ways...each to there own really i guess.

I feed my T on crix cos that is what the research has shown i need to do...I had her on bug gel (further research proved not neccesery if i made some changes)

But if I kept something that needed to be feed on something *others see as unkind* my veiw is im wanting to replicate its nature enviroment to the best of my ability whilst still admiring the critter in captivity so i will do as is needed, the same as if one of my snakes would no longer take defrost mice/rats etc i would look into replicating it being live with vibrations etc(wlw posted alot on that) or ultimatly live feed.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Well i prefer my trues than i do you, so how about we feed you to something?



LOL tim cannibilism??? I`ll bring the ketchup you provide the forks?

Dont worry Will im not plannig on eating you really...however Tim maybe soooo erm hide.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> I think its just people see crix and locusts etc as feeder species.....I buy 1st level locusts grow them on and use as food and am loking at setting up breeding programme.
> 
> I see what your saying just i think people get in cases attatched to other types of animal easier.
> 
> Its the old thing with in China Dogs are used for meat but here alot of people are weirded out by it,,,its all down to what you feel a bond too i guess.


Completely agree. But then i have pet mice and rats and then i have feeder breeders. All kept in the same way, large pet cages and all have plenty of toys etc and good food...just some go as food.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

see muze i agree and im looking at a breeding progremme for mice...if my corns hatch, just not keen on killing the babies. Id want to grow them too and would end up needing the servies of a piper to rid me of all the mice


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Muze said:


> Completely agree. But then i have pet mice and rats and then i have feeder breeders. All kept in the same way, large pet cages and all have plenty of toys etc and good food...just some go as food.


I do the same lol. When i breed spiders etc i always let them eat each other 2 allow the strongest 2 survive.


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

selina20 said:


> I do the same lol. When i breed spiders etc i always let them eat each other 2 allow the strongest 2 survive.



So kind of replicating the wild and the survival of the fittest so you pass on better stronger genes for next breeding cycle???


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## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Well i prefer my trues than i do you, so how about we feed you to something?


Each to their own mate, I'm not holding your passion for trues against you. As said, I'm not out to intentionally cause offence to anyone so I think we should leave it at that and get back on topic. So, everyone vote on the poll and the results will speak for themselves.


----------



## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

Roll on Tuesday, I have some more spiders arriving and have just ound someone selling Sicarius so I should have one or two of them by the end of the month. 

I wouldn't say I like Ts more than I like spiders but at the moment I have some spare enclousures and I want to widen my collection and my knowledge. My collection is a right mish mash of inverts ranging from Ts, Spiders, Scorpions, Stick Insects, Mantids, Millipedes. My problem is that I love new inverts and reading about them, sucking the information up like a sponge as I go.


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Kam i agree i came on here to get some more info on the one i have...and well now im on turning a cupboard (floor to ceiling) into a racking system for all manner of things.


----------



## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> Kam i agree i came on here to get some more info on the one i have...and well now im on turning a cupboard (floor to ceiling) into a racking system for all manner of things.


I had one small enclosure 12 months ago with an Avic, now I have 30 + enclosures and a spare room filled with alsorts of inverts lol


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## ducks (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't think I'd want to keep trues, but some of them are incredibly beautiful. A friend of mine in America has some shots of spiders I would very happily look at every day - but I prefer them out and about. Ts I definitely prefer in tanks :gasp:

Maggies pics (I think these are all jumping spiders, for which I have a real weakness - she's got some other good spider and insect pics on her flickr)







































now these I really love!


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

ducks said:


> I don't think I'd want to keep trues, but some of them are incredibly beautiful. A friend of mine in America has some shots of spiders I would very happily look at every day - but I prefer them out and about. Ts I definitely prefer in tanks :gasp:
> 
> Maggies pics (I think these are all jumping spiders, for which I have a real weakness - she's got some other good spider and insect pics on her flickr)
> 
> ...


Ohhh maybe you should try getting a few jumping spiders then! There class


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Meh, the reason I don't feed spiders is because spiders are useful. 

The level of brood cannibalism is dependant to a large degree on the size of the container and ability to disperse, so I'm not really into that either since it's likely to be higher in captivity where people prefer smaller enclosures to save space.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

I think anyone that claims to be from this forum, then feeds spiders to there tarantulas should be punched in the throat


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I think anyone that claims to be from this forum, then feeds spiders to there tarantulas should be punched in the throat


:rotfl:


----------



## ducks (Mar 28, 2010)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I think anyone that claims to be from this forum, then feeds spiders to there tarantulas should be punched in the throat


and I think anyone who punches people in the throat should be fed to their spiders


----------



## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

You should really only punch someone in the throat if they have a spider stuck in there. Otherwise it's generally considered poor form.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

ducks said:


> and I think anyone who punches people in the throat should be fed to their spiders



They should, unless there doing it for the honor of spiders


----------



## ducks (Mar 28, 2010)

nope, no exceptions. Unless you want to be fed to piranhas instead? It would probably be quicker.


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Tim do you just want to feed people to other things....or just kick some ass??

Quoted you in my sig mr tim


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> Tim do you just want to feed people to other things....or just kick some ass??
> 
> Quoted you in my sig mr tim



Nooo i just don't think killing poor spiders is a good thing to do  For me that would be like killing a family member!


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

i couldnt do it either..sayin that im more fond of my pets then some of my family


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> i couldnt do it either..sayin that im more fond of my pets then some of my family


Lol same here! When i was wit my ex years ago she had a fear of spiders, and sprayed a Tengenaria sp with hair spray!! I grabbed the spider washed it off and released it. Let's just say the ex didn't get spoken to for about a week....


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

shold have sprayed her in the face with the hairspray!


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> So kind of replicating the wild and the survival of the fittest so you pass on better stronger genes for next breeding cycle???


Yup after all they produce such a high number of babies because so many of them will die.


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

*Hexathelidae ftw!
*


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> *Hexathelidae ftw!
> *



And there were people saying we dont specialise in families or only kept the "common, pretty ones" :whistling2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> And there were people saying we dont specialise in families or only kept the "common, pretty ones" :whistling2:


Sigh.


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

GRB said:


> Sigh.


Prison or Manchester, Grant?


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

garlicpickle said:


> Prison or Manchester, Grant?


:lol2:


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

What the hell are you two on about...


----------



## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

dont ask


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> What the hell are you two on about...


Leave em to it Tim...i suspect it's probably being bitched about on the shout box of another forum :lol2:


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Muze said:


> Leave em to it Tim...i suspect it's probably being bitched about on the shout box of another forum :lol2:


Oh the one where i go and get banned for sticking up for people who aren't there to stick up for themselfs?


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

GRB said:


> Sigh.


You dissapoint Grant, one expected at least a - 'Le sigh'.


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Young_Gun said:


> You dissapoint Grant, one expected at least a - 'Le sigh'.


I'm not french....confused.

Also, I get bored of arguing for the sake of it.


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Oh the one where i go and get banned for sticking up for people who aren't there to stick up for themselfs?


Yeah that be the one...i got a ban for that too..



Young_Gun said:


> You dissapoint Grant, one expected at least a - 'Le sigh'.


Yeah put some effort in...jeez!


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

GRB said:


> I'm not french....confused.
> 
> Also, I get bored of arguing for the sake of it.


Bah nevermind, it was meant in jest.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

I prefer a good argument, rather than the odd backstab on a different site! *coughs SHOUTBOX coughs*:blush:


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Young_Gun said:


> Bah nevermind, it was meant in jest.


I know  Alas, I tried to engage in jollities but I found it somewhat lacking in delivery.

Also, I'm not using the shoutbox....


----------



## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I prefer a good argument, rather than the odd backstab on a different site! *coughs SHOUTBOX coughs*:blush:


gotta love that shout box... :whistling2:


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> I know  Alas, I tried to engage in jollities but I found it somewhat lacking in delivery.
> 
> Also, I'm not using the shoutbox....


I've never seen you use it, but on the few occasions i've been on that site members from here have been using it to backstab others from here. I got banned from there for sticking up for the members that weren't there. I sense a horrible conspiracy here! I think there all sleeping together!


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

purplekitten said:


> gotta love that shout box... :whistling2:


What I love more is watching threads circle the drain...


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

purplekitten said:


> gotta love that shout box... :whistling2:


:lol2: the shout box is fine...its just some of the users:whistling2:


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I've never seen you use it, but on the few occasions i've been on that site members from here have been using it to backstab others from here. I got banned from there for sticking up for the members that weren't there. I sense a horrible conspiracy here! I think there all sleeping together!


Why is everything a conspiracy? :roll:


----------



## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

well i cant comment, i just watch, :lol2:


----------



## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> Why is everything a conspiracy? :roll:


everything is a conspiracy, dont you know that? lol


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)




----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Why is everything a conspiracy? :roll:


Don't tar me with the same brush as ninja or bobby, i just think that there's a few things out of place and some people get away with a lot more than others


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Why is everything a conspiracy? :roll:


Makes life just a little more interesting : victory:


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> :lol2: the shout box is fine...its just some of the users:whistling2:


OK, that's enough now thanks. I don't want to have to make this official but I will if I need to. Whistling at the end of the post doesn't somehow make me oblivious to it's intended meaning. 


So, back on topic....2 of my female Amaurobius fenestralis have lain eggs.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

garlicpickle said:


> image


Yeah vultures. They like to 'pick' at things when there down aswell.


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yeah vultures. They like to 'pick' at things when there down aswell.


Yeah, Tim it's all a conspiracy and the world is against you. Do I need to close this thread now?


----------



## purplekitten (Feb 24, 2010)

GRB said:


> OK, that's enough now thanks. I don't want to have to make this official but I will if I need to. Whistling at the end of the post doesn't somehow make me oblivious to it's intended meaning.
> 
> 
> So, back on topic....2 of my female Amaurobius fenestralis have lain eggs.


i had to google that :blush:


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> OK, that's enough now thanks. I don't want to have to make this official but I will if I need to. Whistling at the end of the post doesn't somehow make me oblivious to it's intended meaning.
> 
> 
> So, back on topic....2 of my female Amaurobius fenestralis have lain eggs.


Wasnt meant to make you oblivious at all. Was meant exactly how it was written...smiley or no smiley. Just to clear that up for you.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Yeah, Tim it's all a conspiracy and the world is against you. Do I need to close this thread now?


Well you've closed two today, so third time lucky? You should perhaps rename yourself to TIC = Thread I Close


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Well you've closed two today, so third time lucky? You should perhaps rename yourself to TIC = Thread I Close


If you have issue with the mod team Tim, please contact t-bo, as you've been told several times yet seem to ignore / choose not to read.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> If you have issue with the mod team Tim, please contact t-bo, as you've been told several times yet seem to ignore / choose not to read.


I haven't got a problem with you or anyone else in the moderator team. I just don't like how people can get away with crap but others can't. There are some proper sly people that use these forums yet nothing happens to them just the ones that stand upto them.


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I haven't got a problem with you or anyone else in the moderator team. I just don't like how people can get away with crap but others can't. There are some proper sly people that use these forums yet nothing happens to them just the ones that stand upto them.


Tim, I closed threads involving discussion about Paul F / arguments. It's none of your business and the mod team doesn't need to run things past yourself beforehand.

As for other users? Like what exactly? You never seem to report any of these incidents.

Incidentally, making underhand comments about another user is not "standing up" for anyone - it's causing trouble. I don't care what happens in other forums, the moderators can deal with those incidents on those forums. They shouldn't overspill onto this site.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Tim, I closed threads involving discussion about Paul F / arguments. It's none of your business and the mod team doesn't need to run things past yourself beforehand.
> 
> As for other users? Like what exactly? You never seem to report any of these incidents.



I told you i aint got nothing against yourself or any of the other moderators on this site. And you close whatever you like, i'm just saying you seem to be closing a lot of threads.

And as for the other users and me reporting them, well personally unlike these other users i say things as direct to them as the internet allows me to do, and secondly how can you report members for doing things behind your back?


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Incidentally, making underhand comments about another user is not "standing up" for anyone - it's causing trouble. I don't care what happens in other forums, the moderators can deal with those incidents on those forums. They shouldn't overspill onto this site.


Have a word with the other users aswell then and no one would have a problem.


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

GRB said:


> Tim, I closed threads involving discussion about Paul F / arguments. It's none of your business and the mod team doesn't need to run things past yourself beforehand.
> 
> As for other users? Like what exactly? You never seem to report any of these incidents.
> 
> Incidentally, making underhand comments about another user is not "standing up" for anyone - it's causing trouble. I don't care what happens in other forums, the moderators can deal with those incidents on those forums. They shouldn't overspill onto this site.


Considering you wanted to go back onto the topic with the mention of the eggs you had is this not going OFF TOPIC - If you have an issue with Tim can you not p.m him and discuss this.

BACK ON TOPIC.

Ive been hunting for Trues with no luck got some funny looks pottering bout with my tubs!!!


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Iwell personally unlike these other users i say things as direct to them as the internet allows me to do


It's odd you should say that Tim. I don't appear to have received any communications from you, even a reply to the PM I sent you on Saturday after you came over to the other forum I spend time on and accused me of backstabbing you on there.


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> Considering you wanted to go back onto the topic with the mention of the eggs you had is this not going OFF TOPIC - If you have an issue with Tim can you not p.m him and discuss this.
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.
> 
> Ive been hunting for Trues with no luck got some funny looks pottering bout with my tubs!!!


:notworthy:

I went looking for a woodlouse spider...but never found one 

I really want one!


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> :notworthy:
> 
> I went looking for a woodlouse spider...but never found one
> 
> I really want one!


I've got one in a tub...


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

garlicpickle said:


> It's odd you should say that Tim. I don't appear to have received any communications from you, even a reply to the PM I sent you on Saturday after you came over to the other forum I spend time on and accused me of backstabbing you on there.


I never replied because after i saw what you were capable of i lost respect for you, as i see that kind of behaviour as unfair.


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> I've got one in a tub...


Its no good there. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I never replied because after i saw what you were capable of i lost respect for you, as i see that kind of behaviour as unfair.


I've never portrayed myself as a saint, but of course you are free to think of me however you choose. 
Have a nice evening


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Its no good there. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


I actually find lots of them up by me, I'm surprised they are so scarce elsewhere.


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

garlicpickle said:


> I've never portrayed myself as a saint, but of course you are free to think of me however you choose.
> Have a nice evening


I'm hardly a saint either, i just don't like seeing people who's not there to defend themselfs being slated


----------



## Moggy (Jun 7, 2010)

i would have to go with T's as i am an arachnophobe but i love T's and have just got my first one. true spiders have me running out the room, sometimes crying with fear!!! maybe i dont mind T's cos my dad had one when i was little??


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> I actually find lots of them up by me, I'm surprised they are so scarce elsewhere.


Never seen a single one here in Warrington


----------



## Theevilreddevil (Oct 30, 2008)

:beer8::cheers:


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Moggy maybe its as they are bigger your ok with them...few friends of mine who are the big rough tough kinda men dont like spiders but find my trantula rather cute.


----------



## Colosseum (Aug 8, 2008)

Pretty hard for me to decide as Ive had both, but Ive gone with Ts as I really do like the Aphonopelma genus well I just specialize on them and have a fair few now.


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> Moggy maybe its as they are bigger your ok with them...few friends of mine who are the big rough tough kinda men dont like spiders but find my trantula rather cute.


The main reason people will give when asked why they don't like trues compared to T's will be the 'spindly' legs of the trues, I am willing to bet if you asked your friend/s the reason why if they were honest it would more than likely be for that reason.


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

totally agree it is the spindly legs. showed one them a t.blondi pic and he was just impressed at its sheer size and ability to take on a mouse!


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

SkinheadOi85 said:


> totally agree it is the spindly legs. showed one them a t.blondi pic and he was just impressed at its sheer size and ability to take on a mouse!


It's not a battle they always win, but people continue to do it sadly.


----------



## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

yea i guess so I dont know much about t.blondis and it was the 1st pic that came up.


----------



## ducks (Mar 28, 2010)

purplekitten said:


> i had to google that :blush:


i haven't (yet) but I'm intrigued because the last word means window-dwelling (ish. the window bit is accurate. I think.)


----------



## Willenium (Apr 17, 2008)

Seems at the moment the T's are holding the lead on the poll. The votes for trues are rising though so should be interesting to watch, especially for any traders that are looking into consumer demand.


----------



## ducks (Mar 28, 2010)

ha! It is a window spider. you live and learn. And type sensibly, don't want to miss out that n!


----------



## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Weeeeelll, time to wade in I think. Trues all the way, but I certainly don't only keep ctenids and spassarids, yes they are cool, but it's behaviour which interests me more than size and colour. I sent tim about 40 small european spiders the other day, most of which were brown/black, so I don't think you should take such a dim view of the users of this board, Grant.

Yes there are several people on this board who are so intensely inane I can scarcely believe they haven't been allowed to live for as long as they have, but there are others, even the ones who like to play fast and loose with the forum rules like Tim, who actually are genuinely passionate, not just trying to be cool.


----------



## My plague (Aug 15, 2009)

P10-P14= epic win


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> Weeeeelll, time to wade in I think. Trues all the way, but I certainly don't only keep ctenids and spassarids, yes they are cool, but it's behaviour which interests me more than size and colour. I sent tim about 40 small european spiders the other day, most of which were brown/black, so I don't think you should take such a dim view of the users of this board, Grant.
> 
> Yes there are several people on this board who are so intensely inane I can scarcely believe they haven't been allowed to live for as long as they have, but there are others, even the ones who like to play fast and loose with the forum rules like Tim, who actually are genuinely passionate, not just trying to be cool.



:no1: :notworthy: :notworthy:


----------



## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> Weeeeelll, time to wade in I think. Trues all the way, but I certainly don't only keep ctenids and spassarids, yes they are cool, but it's behaviour which interests me more than size and colour. I sent tim about 40 small european spiders the other day, most of which were brown/black, so I don't think you should take such a dim view of the users of this board, Grant.
> 
> Yes there are several people on this board who are so intensely inane I can scarcely believe they haven't been allowed to live for as long as they have, but there are others, even the ones who like to play fast and loose with the forum rules like Tim, who actually are genuinely passionate, not just trying to be cool.



Glad it aint just me that see's it


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Meh, I think people here are too easily offended. Dim veiw? Hardly, for the average user. I'm glad folks are enthusiastic.


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Meh, I think people here are too easily offended. Dim veiw? Hardly, for the average user. I'm glad folks are enthusiastic.



Or maybe you just cant admit you're wrong about some of the users in here?

I know quite a few "average" users that keep the spiders you deem to be not popular...or sexy i think the word was you used.


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Or maybe you just cant admit you're wrong about some of the users in here?
> 
> I know quite a few "average" users that keep the spiders you deem to be not popular...or sexy i think the word was you used.


Wrong in what way? 

I'm certainly wrong in assuming people would take a general comment aimed at a community of 1000's at face value rather than convoluting it to mean themselves and then take negatively to it.


----------



## My plague (Aug 15, 2009)

Hah!
And there's me thinking I missed alot


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Wrong in what way?
> 
> I'm certainly wrong in assuming people would take a general comment aimed at a community of 1000's at face value rather than convoluting it to mean themselves and then take negatively to it.


You're wrong in that you assumed that there were people on here that didnt specialise in keeping familes of trues. There are quite a few members that do and i do not even claim to know all of them.

You came across, not just to me, but to others as putting peoples knowledge on trues down.

It was a general comment that isnt true for a lot of members on here. As you know on here if you say something that is not correct...expect to be corrected


----------



## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

My plague said:


> Hah!
> And there's me thinking I missed alot


Siiiiiiiiiigh... still it's another number on your post tally ain't it?

Grantisimo, I personally wasn't taking offence at all dude, I'm secure in my own mind about my interests, but just saying that because you said you don't know of anyone on here who keeps boring looking little brown ones, but at the very least, Tim and I do! I'm sure there are a few more on here who do too. 

Admittedly, I don't culture British species, as I prefer to just let them get on with it, but I make sure to pay good attention to watching and identifying them when I find them.... 

That said, the exotic ones are pretty... and as a designer, I do like pretty things, so to some extent, guilty as charged!


----------



## My plague (Aug 15, 2009)

jakakadave said:


> Siiiiiiiiiigh... still it's another number on your post tally ain't it?


Say whut?


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> You're wrong in that you assumed that there were people on here that didnt specialise in keeping familes of trues. There are quite a few members that do and i do not even claim to know all of them.
> 
> You came across, not just to me, but to others as putting peoples knowledge on trues down.
> 
> It was a general comment that isnt true for a lot of members on here. As you know on here if you say something that is not correct...expect to be corrected


You mean like how a generalisation can still hold true even with a half dozen examples to the contrary? 

What, are you trying to say that more than 10% of the user base on this forum are actually dead into araneomorphs? How about 20%? 30%? At what point does the generalisation stop including the same 5 or so people involved in this thread and move to cover a substancial body of the forum users? 

The issue here is you've read a general comment and taken offense because you think your situation and the situation of a few others disagress with it. Knowing that I'm a scientist you should be well aware that generalisations are designed to fit the majority and a few deviances simply require a more specific "generalisation". So what, you want another comment, here you go:

_With the exception of a few users on a forum of 10,000+, most people who profess to being into trues tend to have a skewed opinion of what "trues" are since they tend to keep the sexy colourful or larger species and avoid the thousands of small, uniformly black or brown species which make up the bulk of any natural assemblage. _


----------



## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> You mean like how a generalisation can still hold true even with a half dozen examples to the contrary?
> 
> What, are you trying to say that more than 10% of the user base on this forum are actually dead into araneomorphs? How about 20%? 30%? At what point does the generalisation stop including the same 5 or so people involved in this thread and move to cover a substancial body of the forum users?
> 
> ...


I give up with you Grant...go around offending people on the forum if you wish. Its certainly clear from my inbox you have done so.

Your a Mod im not...wouldnt have thought its a good idea tho


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> Siiiiiiiiiigh... still it's another number on your post tally ain't it?
> 
> Grantisimo, I personally wasn't taking offence at all dude, I'm secure in my own mind about my interests, but just saying that because you said you don't know of anyone on here who keeps boring looking little brown ones, but at the very least, Tim and I do! I'm sure there are a few more on here who do too.
> 
> ...


I've not got a problem with that at all tbh, never said I did as far as I'm aware, lol. 

Considering I have some exotics I'm not saying its a bad thing, mearly that to me both come hand in hand. I don't see how the "serious" araneomorph enthusiast could ignore the amazing british fauna in favour of spiders that are amazing, but relatively unrepresentative of what 99% of the entire group are like.


----------



## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> I give up with you Grant...go around offending people on the forum if you wish. Its certainly clear from my inbox you have done so.
> 
> Your a Mod im not...wouldnt have thought its a good idea tho


So we reach the real crux of the argument finally. I knew it was something personal rather than any real solid argument about araneomorphs. Save it for pm's.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> So we reach the real crux of the argument finally. I knew it was something personal rather than any real solid argument about araneomorphs. Save it for pm's.


I will add that im an accountant, but i dont bring statistics etc to the forum.

Ive just lost any respect for you that i had because you use the "i am a scientist" to get out of apologising.

Quite sad really and please dont threaten me because of you status here.


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

GRB said:


> You mean like how a generalisation can still hold true even with a half dozen examples to the contrary?


To be fair... this is true.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> To be fair... this is true.


Yes , but it can also be a bad thing to generalise as i pointed out.

And i will also point out that i did have nothing against you Grant, as you seem to think.


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> I will add that im an accountant, but i dont bring statistics etc to the forum.
> 
> Ive just lost any respect for you that i had because you use the "i am a scientist" to get out of apologising.
> 
> Quite sad really and please dont threaten me because of you status here.


I never threatened anything if you read my reply. I said keep personal stuff to pm's and out of threads. You jumped on this looking for an argument, not a discussion. 

Secondly, the "stats" as you put it were simply to illustrate where my comment came from. You've not actually explained why you take offense to it since the few of us on this thread account for <5% of the spider forum visitors. To my reasoning, it's totally acceptable to say that "most people on the board don't keep small brown spiders like _Lepthyphantes nebulosu_s in favour of larger things like Viridasius sp."waldform"" since they in all likelhood don't in fact keep L.nebulosus. OMG, suddenly I'm making a slur on the invert board. :roll:

Lastly, it was not to escape an apology mearly to illustrate that in science its a commonplace occurance for a generalisation to have some exceptions. I gave you a more specific generalisation, so what do you want now? "


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> I never threatened anything if you read my reply. I said keep personal stuff to pm's and out of threads. You jumped on this looking for an argument, not a discussion.
> 
> Secondly, the "stats" as you put it were simply to illustrate where my comment came from. You've not actually explained why you take offense to it since the few of us on this thread account for <5% of the spider forum visitors. To my reasoning, it's totally acceptable to say that "most people on the board don't keep small brown spiders like _Lepthyphantes nebulosu_s in favour of larger things like Viridasius sp."waldform"" since they in all likelhood don't in fact keep L.nebulosus. OMG, suddenly I'm making a slur on the invert board. :roll:
> 
> Lastly, it was not to escape an apology mearly to illustrate that in science its a commonplace occurance for a generalisation to have some exceptions. I gave you a more specific generalisation, so what do you want now? "


I merely pointed out that there are people that are not so vocal that have pm'd me. Ive explained that alot more people than you think keep "small brown spiders" and the not "sexy" ones and were not happy by your comments...end of.

Grant im no longer arguing with you...simples.

Now get over it


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> I merely pointed out that there are people that are not so vocal that have pm'd me.
> 
> Grant im not longer arguing with you...simples.


Well considering it was yourself who instigated the discussion I find it all very amusing! 

As for the pm's and stuff, what a moot point. I can probably guess who pm's you just the same as I have my friends who pm me and congratulate me on cleaning up threads etc. If I worried about being everyone's best mate I wouldn't be a moderator as you can't please everyone. One minute it's too heavy handed then the next people are wanting you to eliminate the folk spamming threads. You can't win.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Well considering it was yourself who instigated the discussion I find it all very amusing!
> 
> As for the pm's and stuff, what a moot point. I can probably guess who pm's you just the same as I have my friends who pm me and congratulate me on cleaning up threads etc. If I worried about being everyone's best mate I wouldn't be a moderator as you can't please everyone. One minute it's too heavy handed then the next people are wanting you to eliminate the folk spamming threads. You can't win.


Im glad i amused you.

just like Im sure i know who it was who was PMing you :lol2:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Im glad i amused you.
> 
> Im sure i know who it was who was PMing you :lol2:


Just the one? I think you're off the mark by a long way.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Just the one? I think you're off the mark by a long way.


Not at all ...i bet theres quite a few...you're a mod after all


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

There are more factors at play which govern what people keep. Personally I, in general - not just restricted to pets, like things which are exotic and unusual. My house is a testament to that, filled, as it is, with myriad unusual and exotic items. Doesn't mean I don't like native araneomorphs - that i don't get on my belly in the garden to watch when I find a little hunting spider missioning across the lawn etc.

I also think that the fact that more or less every day someone posts images of a native araneomorph for identification, so I think people do have an interest in them in general, not just the sexy ones. Perhaps not everyone on the forum is a zoologist, but that doesn't mean they can't make intelligent observations. That said, some people on here are devastatingly stupid so perhaps this uncharacteristic generosity of spirit is in fact misplaced.

Oh and guys, chiiiiiilll Winstons! Intelligent debate is awesome, even if it becomes heated, it makes a pleasant change from the endless banality of "YAY, my new G. rosea has arrived!", "Why doesn't my G. rosea move?" or "Sex my G. rosea for me because I'm too lazy/stupid to learn how to do it myself" Buuuuuuut, there's no point in getting raggy, now kiss and make up please children! 

However, Back the f**k off the Viridasius Grant! What have they ever done to you! LOL


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Muze said:


> Not at all ...i bet theres quite a few...you're a mod after all


Listen, I'm not interested in the politics of your friendship circle. I'm doing my job as moderator and as always, if you have issue then use the official channels to discuss the issues as they arise. 

Frankly, I'm just dissapointed that when you have an argument trumped you resort to making it personal rather than trying to reason out another point for discussion, which would have been far more exciting, since wasting personal comments is far to easy compared to battling out logic. 

Jack: It's not an issue with enthusiast vs zoologist or anything. I simply wanted to make the point that a) people used to keep "trues" before tarantulas so it's not the future, more of a retro thing, and that b) it's easy to be lulled over to araneomorphs assuming they are all as wonderful as the hobbyist species (big, fast, aggressive, etc) and forget that the vast majority of species have their own grandeur in a totally different manner. 

Basically it's not me being up myself, since any arachnologist worth his salt knows that the kingsa of UK arachnology were all vicars, reverends and "hobbyists" like O.P.Cambrige and J.E.Hull. :lol2:

Also, all these edits are making it somewhat hard to follow the train of insults! lol. Viridasius are cool, I only used them because they are the sexiest "non brown" spider I could think of at the time that is also becoming popular in the hobby


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Me thinks its time for a group hug peoples

:grouphug:


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

GRB said:


> Viridasius are cool, I only used them because they are the sexiest "non brown" spider I could think of at the time that is also becoming popular in the hobby


ROFL - only as far as i'm aware, because I brought a gravid one back from Hamm. Everyone that wants one - which numbers about 10 people, have them, and now I have millions with no one who wants one, so I wouldn't say they're getting popular exactly!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> ROFL - only as far as i'm aware, because I brought a gravid one back from Hamm. Everyone that wants one - which numbers about 10 people, have them, and now I have millions with no one who wants one, so I wouldn't say they're getting popular exactly!


You have millions you say....go on...:lol2:


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Also really we should be calling them "Viridasius sp. 'forestform' not 'waldform'. 'Waldform' ist Deutsch.


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

GRB said:


> You have millions you say....go on...:lol2:


OK maybe not millions, but certainly lots!


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> Also really we should be calling them "Viridasius sp. 'forestform' not 'waldform'. 'Waldform' ist Deutsch.


But it just sounds so much cooler. 

Anyway, there's been some apparently sold as "sylvestris form" too which means the same thing again basically...very confusing.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

GRB said:


> Listen, I'm not interested in the politics of your friendship circle. I'm doing my job as moderator and as always, if you have issue then use the official channels to discuss the issues as they arise.
> 
> Frankly, I'm just dissapointed that when you have an argument trumped you resort to making it personal rather than trying to reason out another point for discussion, which would have been far more exciting, since wasting personal comments is far to easy compared to battling out logic.
> 
> ...


Im confused ...as that wasnt a personal comment...anyways have pm'd you to clear it up.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Well considering it was yourself who instigated the discussion I find it all very amusing!
> 
> As for the pm's and stuff, what a moot point. I can probably guess who pm's you just the same as I have my friends who pm me and congratulate me on cleaning up threads etc. If I worried about being everyone's best mate I wouldn't be a moderator as you can't please everyone. One minute it's too heavy handed then the next people are wanting you to eliminate the folk spamming threads. You can't win.


Lol i can pretty much guess who's in and out your PM! Probally saying things along the lines of "Oh Grant why are they allowed on here? All they do is cause trouble". Well to be fair i think us 'trouble' makers are the least of the worrys of the members of this forum, as they have to be careful they don't end up with knives in thier backs on other sites. 

And as for your views on true spider keepers etc, i think they are a bit unfair. It's ok to generalise but you're doing it in an area where that's not really fair, i mean you get your day to day keepers who keep 'run of the mill' stuff and then you get your people that will keep anything despite how unsexy it is. 

But it looks like while i was napping you lot woke up....


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Lol i can pretty much guess who's in and out your PM! Probally saying things along the lines of "Oh Grant why are they allowed on here? All they do is cause trouble".
> 
> You mean like the one I got from you about a certain member and spam? :lol2:
> 
> Well to be fair i think us 'trouble' makers are the least of the worrys of the members of this forum, as they have to be careful they don't end up with knives in thier backs on other sites.


TBH most of my PM's recently are actually from yourself and Jack and were either about husbandry advice or other various matters. 

Thing is, when you bring that from one site to another it's just causing trouble on _this_ site, and that's where the issue arises. 



_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> And as for your views on true spider keepers etc, i think they are a bit unfair. It's ok to generalise but you're doing it in an area where that's not really fair, i mean you get your day to day keepers who keep 'run of the mill' stuff and then you get your people that will keep anything despite how unsexy it is.


Unfair in what manner? All I said was that some people may be skewed in what they see the "true" spider clade as being typified by, based on what is available in the hobby. I'm still confused as to where the negativity comes from?


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> TBH most of my PM's recently are actually from yourself and Jack and were either about husbandry advice or other various matters.


Yup, everything aside you do know your stuff which is why a few of us come to you for a bit of advice now and then. So obviously we've not got a problem with you have we....




GRB said:


> Thing is, when you bring that from one site to another it's just causing trouble on _this_ site, and that's where the issue arises.


Yup but it's human nature isn't it? Just because it's a different site doesn't mean that certain things haven't been said. The problems lie with the people that seem to have nothing better to do with their time, than slate others and put them down. Perhaps they need better lives? Who knows? 





GRB said:


> Unfair in what manner? All I said was that some people may be skewed in what they see the "true" spider clade as being typified by, based on what is available in the hobby. I'm still confused as to where the negativity comes from?


And just unfair in the way that you put down most true spider keepers, like saying things like we all only keep 'sexy' true sp. As i said for myself and a few others that isn't true, infact most of the stuff i have here are black or brown things that don't interest anyone apart from myself. Yes i show off sp like Viridasious or say the H davidbowie because they are beautiful, and there the ones that others will see as beautiful. If i was to show most people on here some of my other stuff they would think it was crap


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Yup but it's human nature isn't it? Just because it's a different site doesn't mean that certain things haven't been said. The problems lie with the people that seem to have nothing better to do with their time, than slate others and put them down. Perhaps they need better lives? Who knows?
> 
> Tim, as you may recall I did get fairly irate at you a few weeks ago for posting many negative comments about me and the mod team's decisions on this site. So, with that in mind, why is it so bizarre that someone else might not do the same with you? It's not particularly fun seeing people rip into oneself, but then at the end of the day it's an internet forum.
> 
> And just unfair in the way that you put down most true spider keepers, like saying things like we all only keep 'sexy' true sp. As i said for myself and a few others that isn't true, infact most of the stuff i have here are black or brown things that don't interest anyone apart from myself. Yes i show off sp like Viridasious or say the H davidbowie because they are beautiful, and there the ones that others will see as beautiful. If i was to show most people on here some of my other stuff they would think it was crap


See, this is where we differ in the interpretation. You see it as a put down, I just see it as saying a spade is a spade sort of thing. There was no intent of negativity or put down from my side of the fence, it was an observation more akin to saying "UK Clubionids are mostly yellow/brown/reddish and small" or "most dogs like to eat meat" sort of thing. 

Anyway, what's wrong with just keeping the sexy stuff? My main beef was that you said this was the future when in fact it's retro! :lol2:


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

GRB said:


> Anyway, what's wrong with just keeping the sexy stuff? My main beef was that you said this was the future when in fact it's retro! :lol2:


But retros the furture  And 'sexy' true spiders are coming onto the market a lot more often now. I mean say a year or two ago, how many of us heard of Viridasious?


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

If you want sexy check out:

Polybetes pytagoricus and Stegodyphus dufouri <3


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Young_Gun said:


> If you want sexy check out:
> 
> *Polybetes pytagoricus* and Stegodyphus dufouri <3


Indeed a sexy beast! 

I found this the other day and think it looks quite cool (not particularly rare, but pretty - Araniella curcubitana):








http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Araniella_cucurbitina_II.jpg


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

I think this is the one people want...


















Megaloremmius leo!

To me that is sexy, but i prefer something more bland and evil looking


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> I think this is the one people want...
> 
> image
> image
> ...


Ok... time to gloat. Well almost...

I have one which looks quite similar - Rhytimna sp - Malaysian rusty red huntsman spider - and no, i aint selling it!

I also have a Polybetes pyhtagoricus which i was selling, but have decided against it - and the 8 x Stegodyphus I had went to Tim the other day as part of my tragic and much lamented collection streamlining activity.

See, isn't it so much nicer when us Labidognath enthusiasts get on! 

I would luuurve to get my hands on a Megaloremmius leo though... maybe one day.


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

I have some _Misumena vatia _on their way_. _Small but very pretty


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> Ok... time to gloat. Well almost...
> 
> I have one which looks quite similar - Rhytimna sp - Malaysian rusty red huntsman spider - and no, i aint selling it!
> 
> ...


I have adult Rhytimna's arriving soon.

:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Muze said:


> I have some _Misumena vatia _on their way_. _Small but very pretty


GOT ONE!!! lol Sorry, i'm being a dick....


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> GOT ONE!!! lol Sorry, i'm being a dick....


Awww, ive wanted em for ages 

:lol2: you're not being a dick!


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Muze said:


> Awww, ive wanted em for ages
> 
> :lol2: you're not being a dick!


Yes they're very cute - to be fair, I bought it based on a translated explanation of what it was without any scientific name, so it was a very pleasant surprise when it arrived!

Actually looking at it, mine is not the same species, it's got sort of horns type things... i'll try and take a piccie. Definitely a crab/flower spider though.


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Young_Gun said:


> I have adult Rhytimna's arriving soon.
> 
> :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Awesome... hit me if you have any extras you want to shift!


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

Well us true spider keepers might only be about 20%, but we know how to keep a conversation/argument going :')


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> Yes they're very cute - to be fair, I bought it based on a translated explanation of what it was without any scientific name, so it was a very pleasant surprise when it arrived!
> 
> Actually looking at it, mine is not the same species, it's got sort of horns type things... i'll try and take a piccie. Definitely a crab/flower spider though.


Do yours do the colour change thing?


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> Awesome... hit me if you have any extras you want to shift!


I'd rather sell you some, but whatever gets you off mate


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> Well us true spider keepers might only be about 20%, but we know how to keep a conversation/argument going :')


How are those Stegodyphus getting on dude?



Muze said:


> Do yours do the colour change thing?


I haven't noticed it as yet. I'm gonna try putting it on some pink silk flowers tonight and see. It's white at the moment.


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Young_Gun said:


> I'd rather sell you some, but whatever gets you off mate


Arf Arf!


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## Muze (Jun 20, 2007)

jakakadave said:


> I haven't noticed it as yet. I'm gonna try putting it on some pink silk flowers tonight and see. It's white at the moment.


Yellow flowers might be worth a try. I remember reading somewhere its easier for them to go white to yellow. Im not sure how accurate this is tho.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> How are those Stegodyphus getting on dude?



They seem ok so far mate, few egg sacs have been laid too! There bloody strange things i give them that...


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## jakakadave (Dec 29, 2009)

Muze said:


> Yellow flowers might be worth a try. I remember reading somewhere its easier for them to go white to yellow. Im not sure how accurate this is tho.


Hmmm interesting, i'll give it a whirl. Seems to be strangely aggressive/defensive actually - always putting it's legs up at me.



_TiMiSdRuNk_ said:


> They seem ok so far mate, few egg sacs have been laid too! There bloody strange things i give them that...


Haha - those slings are so tiny too - i think you're gonna need some seriously tiny food for those little guys.

Also, how have you got those uloborids set up? I think they can be kept communally too.


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## _TiMiSdRuNk_ (Aug 27, 2008)

jakakadave said:


> Hmmm interesting, i'll give it a whirl. Seems to be strangely aggressive/defensive actually - always putting it's legs up at me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At the mo there in seperate tubs mate. I wont risk putting them in together just yet as theres a big one and a smaller one


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