# Leopard Gecko disease- Stomach black



## Aceman (Apr 19, 2009)

All, 
I purchased a tank from a couple who used to keep Leopard Geckos. Their Geckos died of a disease that is, so they say, peculiar to Leopard Geckos. The symptoms included refusal to eat, weight loss and a progressive blackening of the gut area- visible through the skin. 

Apparently this condition is not contagious but i want to be certain any herps entering this tank are not at risk. Can knowledgeable Gecko owners please reply with more info about the name of this condition and confirm if what i have been told is correct. 

Cheers


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## hollypops (Nov 3, 2008)

Personally i would not use the tank.I dont mean to sound funny but i just would not take the chance.Yes you can sterilise it but is it worth the risk?

Some nasties are really hard to eradicate completely


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## purple-vixen (Feb 4, 2009)

This is a long shot, but might that be either impaction or internal bleeding? 

My previous little girl got internal bleeding and all her underbelly went very dark red/black before she died 

But also, in cas it isn't I may well have to agree with Holly here, they shouldn't really sell it on, well I wouldn't. If it is wood, certainly not use it, if glass, then I can't see why a thorough bleaching/disinfectant wouldn't work, but do this a few times then completely make sure no bleach/disinfectant is left in there... This is harmful to reptiles.

Just my opinion, but some more experienced peeps will be along shortly! 

x


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

If this disease was crypto as it sounds i would not use the viv. You cannot get rid of the disease so id get rid. No disinfectant will rid it. x


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## Aceman (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks, but they were adamant this was a condition peculiar to Eublepharis and not contagious. Apparently experts told them this. Yes the tank is glass and has been free from the animals for a year, so after a good bleaching i don't see why there should be any issues. 

I have already tamodined the decorations that came with it.


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## ToxicSiren (Aug 8, 2008)

What was the condition? x


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

Personally I wouldn't use the tank. IF it did die from Cryptosporidium as said it is hard to kill - resistant to chlorine and alcohol disinfectants.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

It sounds like Cryptosporidium.

This is not exclusive to leopard geckos, although it might well be more prevalent in leos than many of the other species.

Unless you've got a good supply of F10 - and you're prepared to run a series of faecals on your own animals after three months or so to be certain they've not picked it up, I'd use the cage for something that isn't a reptile.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Aceman said:


> I purchased a tank from a couple who used to keep Leopard Geckos. Their Geckos died of a disease that is, so they say, peculiar to Leopard Geckos. The symptoms included refusal to eat, weight loss and a progressive blackening of the gut area- visible through the skin.
> Apparently this condition is not contagious but i want to be certain any herps entering this tank are not at risk. Can knowledgeable Gecko owners please reply with more info about the name of this condition and confirm if what i have been told is correct.


various problems including poor health/husbandry, parasites and diseases can have the leo show the symptoms that you describe (and they're not just peculiar to leo's either) ~ whilst things such as advanced impaction are not 'contagious' nor can impaction be 'caught' things such as diseases and parasites are and can be.
Depending on what exactly this disease/problem was would govern how the tank/viv could be cleaned ~ while bleach etc and thorough scrubbing may be ok with regards worms and some parasites I wouldn't rely on it if the causes where down to certain bacterial/viral problems and definately not if the deaths were caused by crypto


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

It all comes down to if your willing to risk it or not?

I mean a good clean out - but then you'd be worried sick.

I personally wouldn't risk it

or house somthing other than Leo's in it


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

there is NO known disease particular to leopard geckos..
And what you describe sounds liek crypto.. which is a horrific disease in reptiles and highly contagious..if you bought the tank from the forum a check back on the forumite might show you some threads pertaining to this.

Any disease causing lack of eating.. weight loss etc isnt specific to ONE species of lizard.

Unless you are willing to risk your animals then id throw it as far away as you can.. after bleaching it so it doesnt affect any native reptiles ..

otherwsie you could end up with very sick or dead animals.


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## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

The problem is that you are really having to rely on the word of the previous owners that the condition wasn't contagious; without knowing for certain what caused the deaths of their leos, you simply cannot be sure whether that's true. Without wishing to appear cynical, they were, after all, attempting to sell the viv to you.

As has already been mentioned, one of the diseases associated with leos is crypto, symptoms of which include refusal to eat and weight loss. If it was crypto that killed these leos, then the protozoan that causes the infection can lie dormant for prolonged periods and it will not be killed by bleaching a viv or washing it, no matter how thoroughly (from published iterature, it looks as though only temperatures of 200C and above will kill the oocysts, so even steam cleaning will not help). It _might_ be eradicated by using an ammonia solution but, even that is not guaranteed. Personally, I wouldn't use the viv and risk contaminating other leos.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

They could have also been on Calcium sand which is known to impact them and make their stomachs black. I had an impacted gecko that was on blue calcium sand and their stomach went blue. Without specifics theres no way to be 100% certain.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Impaction is not a disease though.. and if the couple already knew so little about this... then id be very very reluctant to even bring the tank into my home never mind use it..

here is the other thread for cross reference.....

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/293899-crypto-cryptosporidium.html#post3811359


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## gekox (Feb 8, 2008)

I will write few information as I dealt with crypto some time ago and got lots of info about it. Because it looks very similar to crypto from your description, I don't say it was but might have been, reptile veterinary is really far behind in comparison what is there for cats and dogs. There is lot left to be researched.

First of all books about parasite says that crypot can live up to a half a year out side host in temps higher than 4 degrees.
Second there are ways to sterilize (not disinfect) tank.
1. Any temp above 80 degrees will keel it, my vet suggested steam cleener.
2. A 5% solution of ammonia - you have to clean out side or in very well ventilated room - smell is very irritating - you clean it and leave it to try than wipe it with water.
3. A 10% solution of formalin - same as ammonia.
4. Low temps below 4 degrees - but you would have to have walk in freezer to do it with tanks and leave for at least a week in there.

Now it is your decision to do it or not.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Marcia from GGG did a good section on crypto along with various cleaning solutions pro's and cons etc here -> CRYPTOSPORIDIA


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## Aceman (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone. One thing that is interesting, i have not seen anyone confirm they have seen a blackened area of the stomach (possibly liver) through the skin of any Leos infected with crypto. 

That makes me think this pair in question may not have had crypto at all. 

Thoughts on this please? I mean i would expect someone to have agreed with this symptom at least once, but no one has. Additionally both lizards had this symptom so logic suggests they were afflicted with the same problem.

Cheers


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I have to admit, Aceman, I don't think you read my post.

The black, bruised-looking belly is one of the common symptoms that keepers notice with geckos that have Crypto - hence why I said "Sounds like Cryptosporidium."


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## hollypops (Nov 3, 2008)

Just been searching and found the following.

*Cryptosporidium:* Crypto is a bacteria that is ALWAYS deadly to infected reptiles (it can also affect humans and other mammals). Many herpers who have not practiced proper quarantine procedures have lost ENTIRE collections due to crypto. Even following proper quarantine procedures it is still possible to transmit crypto because of how difficult it is to kill. Crypto is most likely to be found in animals from petstores who don't practice quarantine procedures or disinfect anything after animals die or are sold. If you have gotten (or get) a leo from a petstore, I HIGHLY recommend using ammonia on anything that has touched the new reptiles enclosure before going anywhere near any existing reptiles. Symptoms os crypto can include diarrhea (both mucousy and cottage cheese like stool), depression, listlessness, weight loss, and dehydration (info from www.drgecko.com). Another symptom can be spots on the belly (be careful not to confuse internal organs or stool for disease related spots).


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Personally I wouldn't risk using the tank.


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## Lalia (Apr 2, 2009)

i have a question but its gonna sound silly... can the frozen pinkies you buy, if they defrost is there a chance that they have got nasty pathogens on them like coccidia or crypto.. they seem a bit suspect to me cos you dont know where they've been frozen or if they've defrosted before??


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## clidbury (Mar 7, 2009)

I mean I'm no expert on this case.

But if lots of people (which they have) are telling you not to, then I would go with them. I mean a new tank isn't going to cost as much as vet bills, or indeed a new leo if the one you put in the tank dies.

I suppose it just depends on which is more important. A few quid on a new set-up, or the life of a leo?


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## Harr (Jun 2, 2009)

hi yes there is a disease buticantrememberthe name its somthing* flag....* i dont think its contageous


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