# humane way to kill a reptile?



## Chunk247

as morbid as this sounds: is there a humane, quick way to kill a reptile that doesn't involve a vet or PTS juice? because i recently read something about someone having to watch their female leo roll about in the vivarium slowly dying while twitching, and i could not stand this if it was happening to any of my reptiles, and i was just wondering, more in a curious way than anything else, does anyone know of a good way to put them out of their misery as opposed to driving 12 miles to the nearest vets :/ i am not in this situation now (touchwood) and never hope to be, but just would prefer to have more of an idea if i am.


----------



## SilverSteno

The most humane thing to do it to drive to the vets - for a start if your reptile is suffering it could be something that can be cured so taking action yourself could result in you killing your reptile when it could have survived. If you don't know what the problem is then you can't know whether the reptile has a chance at surviving or not - only seeking professional advice can answer that question.


----------



## Ophexis

The kindest way is taking that trip to the vet - to either see if the animal can be saved, or to say goodbye. If nothing else, the animal deserves a dignified death.
Freezing is a slow and painful death and cranial destruction is not always a guaranteed one-hit kill. CO2 suffocation is also slow. Euthanasia by injection is by far the kindest thing you can do, really.


----------



## dickvansheepcake

It doesn't exactly take long to drive 12 miles does it! The humane thing to do is to give the animal a chance and get it to a vet!

Whoever it was that watched their leo die a slow horrible death is a pillock and should have got it to a vet.


----------



## wayakinwolf

dickvansheepcake said:


> It doesn't exactly take long to drive 12 miles does it! The humane thing to do is to give the animal a chance and get it to a vet!
> 
> Whoever it was that watched their leo die a slow horrible death is a pillock and should have got it to a vet.


 

I agree, the vet is the number one person to go first. Typing things on forums & then waiting for replies while an animal is suffering, just prolongs the inevitable, & may even end up being the reason that animal could not possibly be saved by wasting valuable possible treatment times etc.
I`m not having a go at the OP, as their qustion was after all just theoretical, but there are other Heartless people that actually do this.
I personally couldn`t bear to see any animal suffer & therefore the vet is my 1st choice, no matter how far or what cost, if i can`t pay there & then, i don`t tell them, just get the animal treated or whatever 1st, then sort out the bill afterwards, after all they can`t very well un-treat it can they? but if you tell them 1st they will often refuse to see you.


----------



## connor 1213

vet: victory:


----------



## Freakinfreak

Can you buy the drug to euthenise?


----------



## Ophexis

Freakinfreak said:


> Can you buy the drug to euthenise?


Probably not. Can probably only get it on prescription and I wouldn't even consider injecting my own animals. I'd let a guy who is licensed to do so do it.
God only knows what I might do :gasp:


----------



## Royalmad

I have herd of peps putting them in a freezer but if i were going to do that id want to put it in one of them fast freezers you can get were it freezes with in 10mins


----------



## Chunk247

i doubt you can buy it, unless you personally know a vet, and although i do agree that the vet is the most humane way, and i think i am gonna get some pretty nasty comments for this regarding my age, but its pretty hard to get to a vets when its say, eleven at night and you're fourteen years old, i was just a little curious, thanks


----------



## Meko

pretty sure you can't just buy euthanasia stuff over the counter, otherwise people would just go round killing animals for the fun of it.


Although the answer would depend on how you define 'humane'. If something like a gecko is dying and obviously in pain (broken back, face bitten off, head half fallen off .. etc) then a drive to the vets for a certain death would prolong the suffering.
If you define 'humane' as ending the pain as fast as possible then a large blunt object smashed down on its head would be humane as death would be instant. Ok it wouldn't be humane in the conventional meaning but death would be swift and pretty painless.


----------



## Ophexis

Chunk247 said:


> i doubt you can buy it, unless you personally know a vet, and although i do agree that the vet is the most humane way, and i think i am gonna get some pretty nasty comments for this regarding my age, but its pretty hard to get to a vets when its say, eleven at night and you're fourteen years old, i was just a little curious, thanks


Yes it's difficult, but doable  Vets have an out of hours emergency clinic... if the animal isn't going to survive the night then that's the port of call. We took our Springer down to the emergency vets on a Sunday to say goodbye last year... cost us a bomb but it was worth it to know he wasn't in any pain anymore. 
Even ringing up and getting the vet to come to you to put it out of its misery is better than letting it die in suffering. We did that with our cat many years ago - she was so senile and weak in her old age, bless her... we didn't want to stress her unnecessarily by taking her to the one place she truly hated, so we had a vet come out for her, so she could go to sleep knowing where she was and surrounded by the people she knew who loved her. 

But you never know if you don't ask! : victory:


----------



## gizmo2429

the freezer causes a very painfull death for the poor animal so the vet is always the best option and most vet places have a out of hours emergency vets, so just depends on how much you love your pet and dont want them to suffer


----------



## hippyhaplos

I'm sure euthatal and the like are controlled drugs and unavailable to the general public.

I know it was locked in a cabinet when I worked at the vets.


----------



## Stevan

Hammer.


----------



## wayakinwolf

Freakinfreak said:


> Can you buy the drug to euthenise?


 
Absolutely no way, it`s a listed drug that has to entered into a poisons register & each dose accounted for, & it has to be kept under lock & key. It`s against the law for anyone other than qualified people to even have it on their premises. It is such a potent drug, that it can easily kill an adult human, & even works if ingested.


----------



## Mal

As others have said the only humane way and possibly the only legal way of euthanising a reptile is a trip to the vets. Out of hours this may not be easy, it may be costly but it is part of the responsabilty of owning a reptile. Yes, you could put the animal in a freezer and it would ultimately kill it. Thats after the animal has felt the ice crystals forming in its eyes, after feeling the excruciating pain of its blood freezing in its toes. Its bad enough for humans taking a plunge into icy water or going outside unprepared on a freezing day. It would be pure hell for a reptile. Crushing the animals skull sounds like an instant option but it would be rather difficult to actually do. Lets face it, many people couldnt hit a stationary nail with a single blow let alone the head of a writhing lizard. I dont think I could destroy an animal I loved like that. What if you miss ? Owing to their slow metabolism reptiles can endure and survive horrific injuries and their assosciated agonies for a considerable time. This is why the only humane option is for the animal to be taken to someone qualified, experienced and equipped to give the animal a dignified, peaceful and humane end to its life......the vet.

I actually think this is a great thread and well done to the OP for raising it. He clearly stated its not something that he was thinking of doing, he was looking ahead to potential 'nightmare' scenarios. If reading this thread stops someone from having a go at euthanising their animal themselves its a very worthwhile thread.


----------



## Lord Monty

only on this forum would we be discussing if you can buy a euthanasia drug over the counter...:lol2:


----------



## jools

Lord Monty said:


> only on this forum would we be discussing if you can buy a euthanasia drug over the counter...:lol2:


I belong to a forum called "Me and my Mother-in-Law" where this is discussed all the time :lol2:

This IS a joke BTW.

Seriously - I do agree with the others about vets being the only real option. I believe most "ordinary" vets would be able to do this so there should be no need to travel miles and miles to your herp vet in an emergency and if you were certain that PTS was the only option.


----------



## Nix

Indeed you don't need a reptile vet, any vet will do. 
I know it has been said a couple of times, but no, you can't buy it over the counter.


----------



## peterparker

jools said:


> I belong to a forum called "Me and my Mother-in-Law" where this is discussed all the time
> 
> :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:
> 
> Hat's off to OP, regardless of age and experience this is probably a situation many many reptile keepers could find themselves in, regardless of experience sometimes "things" just happen, you can't stop 2 animals mauling each other if they choose to do so and your not there to see/stop it, or falling when they've decided to climb out of character, it is something every keeper should consider "what if this/that happens", BUT don't let it be an off putting thought, most vets are very good and if they see you care they will quite often defer payments or make a plan with you, if your vets doesn't, consider finding one that does, there are a few around.
> It's easy for myself I live in a big city with dozens of vets but I would imagine if I lived in the country and having to travel miles I too would be asking the question raised by the OP. Well done for raisisng a valid question.


----------



## maddragon29

Meko said:


> pretty sure you can't just buy euthanasia stuff over the counter, otherwise people would just go round killing animals for the fun of it.
> 
> 
> Although the answer would depend on how you define 'humane'. If something like a gecko is dying and obviously in pain (broken back, face bitten off, head half fallen off .. etc) then a drive to the vets for a certain death would prolong the suffering.
> If you define 'humane' as ending the pain as fast as possible then a large blunt object smashed down on its head would be humane as death would be instant. Ok it wouldn't be humane in the conventional meaning but death would be swift and pretty painless.


I agree with this. If an animal was definately not going to make it, then a blunt object crushing the skull is instant. Especially if its a small animal.

My vet is about 30 miles away, however I have an emergency one just 5 minute drive away that i use incase of such an emergency. They are not amazing with reptiles, but can put them to sleep humanely if its needed.


----------



## Ophexis

maddragon29 said:


> I agree with this. If an animal was definately not going to make it, then a blunt object crushing the skull is instant. Especially if its a small animal.
> 
> My vet is about 30 miles away, however I have an emergency one just 5 minute drive away that i use incase of such an emergency. They are not amazing with reptiles, but can put them to sleep humanely if its needed.


The only thing about the blunt object is how many people would be able to do it unless they were 'used' to it, as it were?
A first-timer might not hit them hard enough, might not get a clean hit and catch them...both of which would prolong agony... I know I could never do it as killing something like that doesn't sit well with me :blush:
I know some people do it though and if you can guarantee instant death then it's alright... I could just never do it! Vet all the way for me!


----------



## yellrat

Mal said:


> As others have said the only humane way and possibly the only legal way of euthanising a reptile is a trip to the vets. Out of hours this may not be easy, it may be costly but it is part of the responsabilty of owning a reptile. Yes, you could put the animal in a freezer and it would ultimately kill it. Thats after the animal has felt the ice crystals forming in its eyes, after feeling the excruciating pain of its blood freezing in its toes. Its bad enough for humans taking a plunge into icy water or going outside unprepared on a freezing day. It would be pure hell for a reptile. Crushing the animals skull sounds like an instant option but it would be rather difficult to actually do. Lets face it, many people couldnt hit a stationary nail with a single blow let alone the head of a writhing lizard. I dont think I could destroy an animal I loved like that. What if you miss ? Owing to their slow metabolism reptiles can endure and survive horrific injuries and their assosciated agonies for a considerable time. This is why the only humane option is for the animal to be taken to someone qualified, experienced and equipped to give the animal a dignified, peaceful and humane end to its life......the vet.
> 
> I actually think this is a great thread and well done to the OP for raising it. He clearly stated its not something that he was thinking of doing, he was looking ahead to potential 'nightmare' scenarios. If reading this thread stops someone from having a go at euthanising their animal themselves its a very worthwhile thread.


Agree with Mal


----------



## jamesbusby221

why would anyone want to kill a reptile at home except to save frigging money... which in this case if you havent got the money to pay for treatment then that means one thing you shouldnt keep reps!.. dont taxis still run at 11 on a night? most things can be treated nowadays with the technology and experiance.. i work at sea so kill crabs,lobsters and fish all day long but when it comes to a reptile its something i couldnt do. there part of the family. 

no im not having a go by the way just stating the facts


----------



## Meko

you'd have to be a bit stupid though to not hit it hard enough or to miss. Heavy object and smack, it's not like hitting a 4mm nail head with a 1inch hammer head. you've got a big area to aim at and you can use anything you want to hit it with.. a hammer, shoe, chest or drawers


----------



## maddragon29

jamesbusby221 said:


> why would anyone want to kill a reptile at home except to save frigging money... which in this case if you havent got the money to pay for treatment then that means one thing you shouldnt keep reps!.. dont taxis still run at 11 on a night? most things can be treated nowadays with the technology and experiance.. i work at sea so kill crabs,lobsters and fish all day long but when it comes to a reptile its something i couldnt do. there part of the family.
> 
> no im not having a go by the way just stating the facts



You're not stating them very well. Not everything can be treated, and alot of conditions that can be treated still give the animal a lessen'd quality of life, and others that can sometimes be treated have a small chance of success. If either of these were the case with my animal, i'd have it PTS. And as for experience... its easy to have a vet near you, not so easy to have a GOOD reptile vet, never mind a great one!

And no Ophexis, not many people could, or should attempt it. Personally I never would, as said theres a vets just 5 minutes away from me. But for people who struggle to be near a vet, and an animal is suffering, it'd be the kindest way. WAY kinder than sticking a poor animal in the freezer, which a lot of people seem to opt for and its horrible


----------



## Ophexis

Meko said:


> you'd have to be a bit stupid though to not hit it hard enough or to miss. Heavy object and smack, it's not like hitting a 4mm nail head with a 1inch hammer head. you've got a big area to aim at and you can use anything you want to hit it with.. a hammer, shoe, chest or drawers


I dunno, maybe if I knew that there was no other way then it could be done... but I honestly couldn't bear to kill my animals myself - others could feel the same and might hesitate (hence the weak blows or missing etc.). But then again I'm a sentimental wuss :blush:



maddragon29 said:


> And no Ophexis, not many people could, or should attempt it. Personally I never would, as said theres a vets just 5 minutes away from me. But for people who struggle to be near a vet, and an animal is suffering, it'd be the kindest way. WAY kinder than sticking a poor animal in the freezer, which a lot of people seem to opt for and its horrible


I've got a 'regular' vet about a 15 minute drive away... worth the travel IMO to give something a dignified, kind end. I can't understand how the freezer came about - surely anyone with some sense would know how painful it would be to a cold-blooded animal?
But yes, there are those who struggle to be near a vet so something quick and painless is best!


----------



## Meko

jamesbusby221 said:


> why would anyone want to kill a reptile at home except to save frigging money... which in this case if you havent got the money to pay for treatment then that means one thing you shouldnt keep reps!.. dont taxis still run at 11 on a night? most things can be treated nowadays with the technology and experiance.. i work at sea so kill crabs,lobsters and fish all day long but when it comes to a reptile its something i couldnt do. there part of the family.
> 
> no im not having a go by the way just stating the facts


 
don't taxi's run at 11pm? yes but what good is that going to do you? where as you taking your half dead repile? the cinema? late night shopping at Asda? to the pub for last orders? or to stand outside the vets that closed at 7pm and wait till it opens in the morning.

it isn't just a case of saving money. if something is very clearly in pain and there's no way of saving it then it needs to be put to sleep. You can call the emergency vet but how many emergency vets are there? one, two, 28 or one sitting on the doorstep of every house in the UK??
Once you phone a vet you need to wait for them to get there; if the vet is local and available they'll be there soon. If the vet is on a call 10 miles away then you have to wait till they've finished there. 
So if for example; a leo had escaped, the cat found it and mangled it before you could get to it. The leo is barely alive but still hanging in there; it's got limb missing and puncture wounds.
Do you:
A - wait for the vet who's dealing with an emergency and it could take hours.
B - take it to Asda for the weekly shopping because the taxis are still running?
C - do the humane thing and kill it as fast as possible however possible to end its suffering


----------



## Nicki_

I found this thread very useful as it is a question that has crossed my mind before and I have found myself in this situation on a few occasions. Not with my reptile though.

My first experience watching an animal clearly suffering from untreatable wounds was when I was only 9 years old. My cousins and I chased off a cat that had literally mauled a poor chick to close death and I was terrified as to what to do. Its intestines were hanging out, it's face had been torn to bits and the poor thing was clinging on to dear life. At that age, you would get an adult to help you out but the closest adult around was a stranger who refused to do anything other than "leave it be to die". I was crying my eyes out at this point and my cousins who were younger were going hysterical. So, with the bit strength I had, I managed to break its neck and it died instantly. This haunted me for years as I kept asking myself, what if it went wrong? Luckily it didn't but I would hate to be put in that situation again, especially with a pet I love to bits.

The second time I can relate to this thread was when my horse had a suspected broken leg and I was away on holiday. Thankfully I was still in the country and someone was with my horse at the time but it was 11 o'clock at night and it was a nightmare trying to find a vet that specialised on the equine side and also had an emergency call out section. It took 2 hours to get a hold of someone and it took a further half an hour for them to get to my horse.
Unforunately, after a week of treatment and no success (found out it wasn't a broken leg after all but an abcess in the hoof bone), I had to make the decision and have my horse put to sleep and there was nothing worse than waiting for the vet to arrive to do it. He was insured but once you hit the limit or his moneys worth, there is nothing you can do other than pay £15,000 for an operation that has 50/50 chance of working. Sadly, I watched my horse go and held onto him as he slipped away.

All I can say is that, reading this can make you think..."what if?" 
As horrible it may sound, be prepared for a situation like this and have a plan worked out before it ever does happen. There is nothing worse than finding yourself panicking whilst your animal is dying or suffering. 

If there is no way of saving the animal like people have said, the quickest way is to just put it out of its misery no matter how heartbreaking it is. It is an awful thing to discuss and think about but you never know...it could happen.


----------



## Nicquita

i disagree about the blunt object part. i think it can be done right if necessary, and from what i've read, a lot of people have good practice at it. a fair few people feed mice, and often breed and either live-feed or cull themselves for feeding. if it can be done to a mouse, i don't see what would make a reptile so much more special.

i keep *pet *mice, and last year had the traumatic experience of finding one of my poor little girls literally falling to pieces. she had an inoperable tumour, and i was essentially waiting for her to lose quality of life and need to be PTS (i refused to do it while she was still running around and happy). sadly, she had other plans and tried to chew it off of herself. she was literally gaping open, and there wa no way she would have survived. no vets were available, as it was a sunday, and i suppose mice just aren't that important. thankfully, my sister is on a zoology course, and has 'practice' at doing similar things. she took Fumble away, and i assume she hit her head against the edge of a desk, as a minute later, my poor little girl was dead. although not as nice as being PTS, it was definitely much nicer than waiting to die in excruciating agony.


----------



## Ophexis

Nicquita said:


> i disagree about the blunt object part. i think it can be done right if necessary, and from what i've read, a lot of people have good practice at it. a fair few people feed mice, and often breed and either live-feed or cull themselves for feeding. if it can be done to a mouse, i don't see what would make a reptile so much more special.


There's nothing wrong with it if it's done properly as it's quick and painless... but for people like myself who have never had any practice or experience, it can be extremely daunting and I'd be frightened about not delivering a clean hit and causing it more pain until I got it right... 
I suppose it's fortunate you had your sister to assist in giving your mouse a quick end, she didn't have to suffer


----------



## eco_tonto

Interesting thread, i can see both sides of the argument.

I think if someone is comfortable with their ability to quickly and humanly end life then there is no harm in doing so given the correct circumstances.

However if people don’t think they could bring themselves to do it contact a vet.

I would say however I strongly disagree with freezing reptiles.


----------



## Spikebrit

eco_tonto said:


> Interesting thread, i can see both sides of the argument.
> 
> I think if someone is comfortable with their ability to quickly and humanly end life then there is no harm in doing so given the correct circumstances.
> 
> However if people don’t think they could bring themselves to do it contact a vet.
> 
> *I would say however I strongly disagree with freezing reptiles*.



As should everyone. 

Freezing causes crystles to form in the blood, this in turn cause the blood to thincken. The heart continues to pump blood untill the ice crystals have either done enougth damage or built up in the haert to cause and arrest and then death. 

This is a very slow and incredably painful way to die. it used to be done years ago under the ideology, of 'out of sight, out of mind'.

This thread is very good. Euthenasia is somthing that no one wants to consider. the best way is always through a vet, but sometimes other methods need to be considered in certain emergency situations. 

Jay


----------



## Nicki_

eco_tonto said:


> Interesting thread, i can see both sides of the argument.
> 
> I think if someone is comfortable with their ability to quickly and humanly end life then there is no harm in doing so given the correct circumstances.
> 
> However if people don’t think they could bring themselves to do it contact a vet.
> 
> I would say however I strongly disagree with freezing reptiles.


I completely disagree with the freezing method as well.
It may be looked upon as a favor for the reptile by those who do this kind of thing but honestly, it is just down right animal cruelty...

I can't and dread to think what the poor little things are going through! 

People have gave brief discriptions and explainations as to what happens to the animal if frozen and honestly, it fills my eyes just reading it as I don't understand how anybody could carry out this sort of method.

I think this thread is very important in all honesty as this also applies to those who make threads asking for immediate help or advice on their suffering animal instead of just getting it to the vets or doing something beneficial for it.


----------



## jamesbusby221

so a question then for all you that are saying hit them across the head.. in that case then if someone close to you was in a car accident and mangled up you would hit then across the head to put them out of there missery if you could with out the jail sentance?? no because its not humane they would take them to the hospital and try to save his/her life. so why the difference because there animals? where all living things. and theres emergancy vets all over.. i had it with my dog a few years ago and took him to vets unfortunatly he had to be put down and that was early hours of the morning. how are you ment to know if a animal is fully in pain? they dont get hit across the head in the wild.


----------



## si-man

Dunno if I could kill a reptile, had to euthanise a ranchu goldfish though with oil of cloves in a bucket. 10 seconds, unconscious and none the wiser.


----------



## Meko

jamesbusby221 said:


> so a question then for all you that are saying hit them across the head.. in that case then if someone close to you was in a car accident and mangled up you would hit then across the head to put them out of there missery if you could with out the jail sentance?? no because its not humane they would take them to the hospital and try to save his/her life. so why the difference because there animals? where all living things. and theres emergancy vets all over.. i had it with my dog a few years ago and took him to vets unfortunatly he had to be put down and that was early hours of the morning. how are you ment to know if a animal is fully in pain? they dont get hit across the head in the wild.



they don't go to vets in the wild either, so we'd better just leave them to it.


----------



## Nicki_

jamesbusby221 said:


> so a question then for all you that are saying hit them across the head.. in that case then if someone close to you was in a car accident and mangled up you would hit then across the head to put them out of there missery if you could with out the jail sentance?? no because its not humane they would take them to the hospital and try to save his/her life. so why the difference because there animals? where all living things. and theres emergancy vets all over.. i had it with my dog a few years ago and took him to vets unfortunatly he had to be put down and that was early hours of the morning. how are you ment to know if a animal is fully in pain? they dont get hit across the head in the wild.


I would say there is a huge difference. 

You don't get an ambulance racing through traffic with the woo-woo's on for a reptile unfortunately. 

If someone involved in a serious car crash is close to death, the closest hospital will obviously send an emergency ambulance out or even a helicopter could come to the scene in seconds and air lift the person to hospital.

Whereas, if an incident happens with your reptile, say at midnight, there are so many emergency vets working those hours and many of them could be at other jobs. Say a cow had been knocked down on the motor way, the vet will have to be on that scene immediately to remove the cow for police to get the motorway cleared up. They wouldn't leave a situation like that to come rushing out for a reptile that has no chance of surviving.

As harsh as it may sound, it is true. 

As I mentioned, my horse had a suspected broken leg and there was no rapid response from the vets for him or no ambulance dashing through traffic at 70mph for him either. 

Obviously, before making a decision to take matters into your own hands, ring the emergency vet of course if it is worth a try but if they say they are at another emergency for another hour and there is your reptile squirming around in agony, what are you going to do? Just wait and watch it suffer a slow death or put it out of its misery?


----------



## gartergoon

i have heard that shops freeze them, so they dont make a loss on profits with vet bills and so on :whip:


----------



## vitticeptus

sawn off shotgun point blank to the face!


----------



## Duey

Over the years we have had to put down several pets. Rats, Birds and unfortunetly one beardie.

The rats all had tumours and so we put them down with an air rifle same with the birds.

We had to put down our parrot who was badly wounded by my cousins dog on Christmas eve and we had to wring his neck. 

The beardie was hit on the head.

All of these died quick and painless deaths and as sad as it is at the time it was the best thing to do.

Personally i think that if you really love an animal then you have to do what best regardless of how it makes you feel.


----------



## Duey

vitticeptus said:


> sawn off shotgun point blank to the face!


Unless you're name is Raoul and then no doubt you'll botch it. :lol2:


----------



## Nicki_

Duey said:


> Unless you're name is Raoul and then no doubt you'll botch it. :lol2:



:gasp:


----------



## Mal

Its a shame that yet again an interesting debate on RFUK deteriorates to the level of distastful. Sawn off shotguns, the mention of deranged gun men. Just my personal feeling but I find such posts insensative and totally inappropriate.


----------



## Ophexis

Mal said:


> Its a shame that yet again an interesting debate on RFUK deteriorates to the level of distastful. Sawn off shotguns, the mention of deranged gun men. Just my personal feeling but I find such posts insensative and totally inappropriate.


I agree Mal, this had some good points to it.
Though I think it really boils down to, if a vet is not an option for 'good' reason, whether or not a keeper is capable mentally of ending their own animal's life if there was absolutely no other way. Personally, I don't think I could, and I'd dread to be put in a situation like that to find out.
'To save money' is not a viable reason for skipping out on a dignified end via a vet... but perhaps if it was absolute certain death and a vet was unobtainable, then cranial destruction could be considered the kindest thing to do.


----------



## gartergoon

Duey said:


> Over the years we have had to put down several pets. Rats, Birds and unfortunetly one beardie.
> 
> The rats all had tumours and so we put them down with an air rifle same with the birds.
> 
> We had to put down our parrot who was badly wounded by my cousins dog on Christmas eve and we had to wring his neck.
> 
> The beardie was hit on the head.
> 
> All of these died quick and painless deaths and as sad as it is at the time it was the best thing to do.
> 
> Personally i think that if you really love an animal then you have to do what best regardless of how it makes you feel.






do you not think your doing something wrong if you have to kill all those animals lol?


----------



## taeger

A few posts back someone said that if you cant afford vet bills you shouldnt have the reptiles anyway - but remember people can easily lose their job and struggle to get another one. Ive known people who were really well off one minute then in a bad state of poverty the next with a house full of animals they could no longer afford and having trouble rehoming. Admittedly there are people out there who have animals wether they can afford them or not but it is not always the case and not everybody have someone they can borrow money from either. I prefer using the vet but if i was in a dire situation as much as id hate myself id put it out of its misery.


----------



## taeger

gartergoon said:


> do you not think your doing something wrong if you have to kill all those animals lol?


I dont think thats fair as it has not been specified how many years, and even if you do look after every pet well sometimes things happen that are out of our control and lead to putting the poor animal out of its misery asap - I bet it killed him inside to ring that parrots neck


----------



## Nicki_

Duey said:


> Over the years we have had to put down several pets. Rats, Birds and unfortunetly one beardie.
> 
> The rats all had tumours and so we put them down with an air rifle same with the birds.
> 
> We had to put down our parrot who was badly wounded by my cousins dog on Christmas eve and we had to wring his neck.
> 
> The beardie was hit on the head.
> 
> All of these died quick and painless deaths and as sad as it is at the time it was the best thing to do.
> 
> Personally i think that if you really love an animal then you have to do what best regardless of how it makes you feel.



Did none of these animals have any chance of surviving at all? 

I praise your bravery and strength of ending their lives quickly. I bet it was heartbreaking.


----------



## vitticeptus

I do not find the idea of shooting an animal any more ridiculous than beating it around the head with a stick or throwing it in a freezer!!If you cannot afford a vet then find a free clinic and get it put to sleep....such places do exist.


----------



## Meko

the beating it to death isn't aimed at cost; it's aimed at time and level of damage and vet availability.


----------



## Nicki_

vitticeptus said:


> I do not find the idea of shooting an animal any more ridiculous than beating it around the head with a stick or throwing it in a freezer!!If you cannot afford a vet then find a free clinic and get it put to sleep....such places do exist.


I understand where you are coming from and sort've agree with your opinion.

However, if you look at it at a different point of view. 

If your animal is in a state where it can in fact survive the journey to a clinic or vet without causing it stress or further pain then fair enough, get it straight there, get a professional to judge for themselves whether the animal can be saved or not.

However, a horrible but reasonable example, what it your animal was split right down the middle, it's organs were hanging out and it was fighting to stay alive but clearly in agonising and untreatable pain?

I think that is what a lot of people on here are trying to decide on what would be best for the animal and that maybe the only option is to destroy it immediately.


----------



## Carnuss

I know this sounds sick but if you've tried everything and the poor wee thing is on deaths door and you can't bare to see him suffering anymore and you can't afford a vet and you want to do it without causing the poor animal any pain, you could put him in a plastic bag and stomp on his head/him with heavy boots as hard as you can to make sure it is as quick and painless as possible, I know this sounds brutal and it'll break your heart doing it but I leave that decision up to you, if you do decide to do it feel where his head is and try to keep him still so you can be precise. Again only do this if you have no other option, you may prefer him to die on his own, I leave the choice up to you, but make sure you have tried everything possible for as long as possible to try to bring him back to health. Sorry to hear about your wee pet mate, it's sad seeing suffering. Good luck. 
:sad:


----------



## Ophexis

Carnuss said:


> I know this sounds sick but if you've tried everything and the poor wee thing is on deaths door and you can't bare to see him suffering anymore and you can't afford a vet and you want to do it without causing the poor animal any pain, you could put him in a plastic bag and stomp on his head/him with heavy boots as hard as you can to make sure it is as quick and painless as possible, I know this sounds brutal and it'll break your heart doing it but I leave that decision up to you, if you do decide to do it feel where his head is and try to keep him still so you can be precise. Again only do this if you have no other option, you may prefer him to die on his own, I leave the choice up to you, but make sure you have tried everything possible for as long as possible to try to bring him back to health. Sorry to hear about your wee pet mate, it's sad seeing suffering. Good luck.
> :sad:


It's not his pet, it was a hypothetical question... but good effort nonetheless


----------



## Bexzini

Wow... what a fantastic thread and it is something that definitely needs to be addressed with reptile owners! I can't say I have 'enjoyed' reading this and some of the detail made me quite upset at some stage or another. I have never had a situation like this, and it scares me that reading these threads has made me upset, let alone what state I would be in if I actually had to put one of my reptiles out of its misery.

I completely disagree with freezing, I guess people think that because they can't see the reptile that it means they are dying peacefully. They really wouldn't. 

I have to be honest I was really shocked that the OP started this thread and I thought s/he was going to get some serious abuse! But after reading all the comments and stories I realise it is something that needs to be brought to the attention of all animal owners. People are right on here- what if its 2am and you live in the middle of nowhere and have no chance of getting to a vet for how bad a state the animal is in- what are you supposed to do? It really depends on the situation you are in but for me, I would ring the emergency vet and try and describe what the problem is and ask for their advice. But I would not come on here and start posting about it- just wastes valuable time. I think it is good to talk about things like this though and I think it would be good to post this in the seperate forum sections as people check those way more than this section. 

As for the inhumane comments regarding shotguns they are really disgusting. There is absolutely no need for them imagine if something was wrong with your animal and someone made a sick joke like that- bet you wouldnt like it then! Think before you type in future!


----------



## rtk

Several points on this

To the person who is 14, ask your parents, if they aren't prepared to take responsibility they shouldn't let you have the pets.

For those who dont have a vet who would come out immediately 24/7, find a new one, they charge enough they should give you the service.

And personally I thought the shotgun was a pretty good idea, quick and certain, if I was put in that situation its what I would use. Probably not a sawn off though :2thumb: cant think of a legal reason for owning such a thing :lol2:


----------



## geckojohn&lauren

well to be honest i think that everyone with animals should have some money stashed away in the house for things like this and befor you give up on your first vet that cant come out for a few hours ring around and if no luck then you gotta do what you gotta do to make them feel no more pain its your duty as an owner and a few years back my mate had a beardy and it was in real pain and rather than goin to the vets he rang his local rep shop so as you can tell it was during the day so a vet shouldnt be a problem and they told him to put it in the freezer and the next day when i saw him he said that the beardy wasnt in the bag he put it in in the freezer and it was tryin to find a warm spot on the other side of a chest freezer how sick is that the poor little beardy must have been is so much pain i think its disgusting but after that we had an argument about what he done and we havent spoke to this day


----------



## si-man

Use punctuation ffs! Bit about everyone should have money saved is utter bull as well. If you're saying that, then surely everyone with a pet should have pet insurance then? Not always do able depending on peoples circumstances.


----------



## jamesbusby221

freezing a reptile is sick! same as for the shotgun.. im still sticking to what i said if you dont have the money to pay vet bills then dont have a frigging pet/rep. and if it really came to it and you had tryed everything possible and couldnt get a vet and couldnt seek advice on what to do, then yeah i believe you do what you after. i probably would end up using blunt object


----------



## Meko

rtk said:


> For those who dont have a vet who would come out immediately 24/7, find a new one, they charge enough they should give you the service.


seriously, use some common sense,
They can't give you the service if they're already giving somebody else that service. Each pet owner doesn't have a designated and personal vet; vets have hundreds of clients and can't drop one call out to go to another.


----------



## bobby

The vets....


----------



## rtk

Meko said:


> seriously, use some common sense,
> They can't give you the service if they're already giving somebody else that service. Each pet owner doesn't have a designated and personal vet; vets have hundreds of clients and can't drop one call out to go to another.


 
A decent practice can. The one I use has vet nurses on duty 24/7 for the in patients, and more than one vet. So far they have always responded within a reasonable time, if one vet is on a call another comes. But if you were really stuck the vet nurses are always there.

And because I can be a bit OCD over my animals they are all registered with more than one practice. One does the treatments and the other the annual injections. So in an emergency I would have two chances.


----------



## Meko

but all vets practises don't have all vets on call all the time. You could get another from another practise but the point was that if you can't get a vet out in an emergency it isn't just because they can't be arsed. It's more likely that they can't get somebody to you because they're already on a call out.


----------



## rtk

Meko said:


> but all vets practises don't have all vets on call all the time. You could get another from another practise but the point was that if you can't get a vet out in an emergency it isn't just because they can't be arsed. It's more likely that they can't get somebody to you because they're already on a call out.


 
Agreed, but I have already dumped a practice which didn't offer a call out service out of hours. Too big a risk to my animals to stay with them. I dont actually have a reptile yet :blush: but when my daughter gets one I will register it with the reptile vet Nelly1 has recommended and also with my horse vet who I know gives 24/7 service. 

For those who are short of money, it doesn't actually cost anything to register with a vet and when you have they are on the end of a phone, also free if you have any questions. Cant see the point of not doing it.

And if you notice I did say in an emergency where I couldn't get hold of them I would use the shotgun :lol2: I wasn't joking either, I couldn't hit something on the head or break its neck but I could shoot it. I'm a pretty good shot so a static target at a range of a few feet would be quick and certain death.


----------



## Meko

i don't blame you; the objective is to put it out of its misery and end its pain. Its a lot easy to hit it with a brick or shoot it then wait 6 hours till your vet has finished delivering puppies.
i doubt it's going to get to the pearly viv doors and get turned away by Saint Salamander for not having a death certificate stamped by a vet.


----------



## Duey

gartergoon said:


> do you not think your doing something wrong if you have to kill all those animals lol?



I have kept animals for over 20 years! Unfortunetly over that length of time animals get sick.


As regards the best way, then the vets would be best in ideal world but if you have to do what is necessary then cranial destruction or shooting is best.

freezing is a horrible way to do it.

I find it is ridiculous how much vets charge for the putting an animal down, we once had a vet charge us £150 to put down our dog that they pretty much killed anyway.


----------



## Nicki_

Freezing has been mentioned a lot now and I am beginning to get more concerned about it. 

Where have you guys heard about this from?

I can't remember where I heard it from but I am sure it was mentioned that a lot of breeders do it?


----------



## stevemusson

Never put a reptile to sleep but I've done rabbits and squirrels (on side of road run over) with a bash on the back of the head, twisted chickens necks (don't like the feeling as the last breath leaves though) the worst by miles was when I tried to do a pig that had leukemia with a hammer. First blow broke skull and second finished it, horrible for them few seconds between blows knowing I'd caused it pain. So after my experiences I'd never prolong any suffering intentionally but would recommend a vet whenever possible.


----------



## Jeffers3

I just posted on another thread about this. My daughter has kept rats and hamsters for many years. Twice, she has had rodents with tumours and were suffering.

Despite knowing how to euthanise these manually, I couldn't do this to a family pet. I also couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on my air rifle, which at point blank range would also have been quite humane (as humane as it's possible to be when you are killing an animal). I did get a lot of stick about this, as I have no problem with breaking a wild rabbit's neck, or shooting a pheasant or pigeon, or even knocking a trout on the head - but it's different when it's a family pet!

I used chloroform, which works very well. The problem is that most people don't have any of this!

I should also add that I've never done this to a reptile.


----------



## miss_ferret

personally i would always go to a vet first, but should that option not be available for whatever reason, id go with either blow to the head/breaking the neck (in a small animal) or shooting (in a large animal). one of the benifits of being from a farming background is that i do know the theory for snapping an animals neck, however iv never done it so how good id be if the occasion called for it i dont know.

the occasion i always remember is when i was younger i found a half mangled chicken on the yard where i keep my horse, a stray dog had got hold of it, its guts where hanging out, half one of its legs had been ripped off, generally looked like something off a horror film. no way it could have been saved. i found the farmer and took him to the chicken, he took one look at it, kneeled down and a split second later it was dead. so if you have enough practice, breaking the neck is one of the quickest ways to dispatch something. its when you dont know what your doing and basicly end up strangleing the animal that it gets nasty.

not sure how efective that method is for reps though? :blush:


----------



## stevemusson

Jeffers3 said:


> I just posted on another thread about this. My daughter has kept rats and hamsters for many years. Twice, she has had rodents with tumours and were suffering.
> 
> Despite knowing how to euthanise these manually, I couldn't do this to a family pet. I also couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on my air rifle, which at point blank range would also have been quite humane (as humane as it's possible to be when you are killing an animal). I did get a lot of stick about this, as I have no problem with breaking a wild rabbit's neck, or shooting a pheasant or pigeon, or even knocking a trout on the head - but it's different when it's a family pet!
> 
> I used chloroform, which works very well. The problem is that most people don't have any of this!
> 
> I should also add that I've never done this to a reptile.


I'm not sure if I could do it to a pet. I've only ever done wild or farm animals. Chloroform would be ideal if you can get any also despite how messy it looks if you can do it in a single blow then a bash on the head is very quick. Hopefully I never have to do it to any of my pets


----------



## stevemusson

miss_ferret said:


> personally i would always go to a vet first, but should that option not be available for whatever reason, id go with either blow to the head/breaking the neck (in a small animal) or shooting (in a large animal). one of the benifits of being from a farming background is that i do know the theory for snapping an animals neck, however iv never done it so how good id be if the occasion called for it i dont know.
> 
> the occasion i always remember is when i was younger i found a half mangled chicken on the yard where i keep my horse, a stray dog had got hold of it, its guts where hanging out, half one of its legs had been ripped off, generally looked like something off a horror film. no way it could have been saved. i found the farmer and took him to the chicken, he took one look at it, kneeled down and a split second later it was dead. so if you have enough practice, breaking the neck is one of the quickest ways to dispatch something. its when you dont know what your doing and basicly end up strangleing the animal that it gets nasty.
> 
> not sure how efective that method is for reps though? :blush:


The "old pull nd twist" (lol) method would probably work well in some reptiles but you may find a lot have to much muscle on their necks. Also I hate that bit where they exhale their last breath and you feel the heart stop.


----------



## Jeffers3

stevemusson said:


> The "old pull nd twist" (lol) method would probably work well in some reptiles but you may find a lot have to much muscle on their necks. Also I hate that bit where they exhale their last breath and you feel the heart stop.


It's a lot more difficult to do this than most people think. I definitely wouldn't recommend it unless someone has shown you how to do this properly. I don't think I could do this to any family pet, yet alone one of my reptiles. I don't even like hamsters - yet I couldn't do it to one of my daughter's pets - despite the fact that it was clearly in terrible pain.


----------



## jona

Chunk247 said:


> as morbid as this sounds: is there a humane, quick way to kill a reptile that doesn't involve a vet or PTS juice? because i recently read something about someone having to watch their female leo roll about in the vivarium slowly dying while twitching, and i could not stand this if it was happening to any of my reptiles, and i was just wondering, more in a curious way than anything else, does anyone know of a good way to put them out of their misery as opposed to driving 12 miles to the nearest vets :/ i am not in this situation now (touchwood) and never hope to be, but just would prefer to have more of an idea if i am.


 
The ONLY humane way to put any reptile/snake down is to put it in a box or pillow case & then into the freezer for about a week.They seem to go into hibernation then die in thier sleep.I have had to do to a snake that was given to me with a broken back (it was paralyzed half way down it's body).but always go to a vet FIRST!.


----------



## maddragon29

jona said:


> The ONLY humane way to put any reptile/snake down is to put it in a box or pillow case & then into the freezer for about a week.They seem to go into hibernation then die in thier sleep.I have had to do to a snake that was given to me with a broken back (it was paralyzed half way down it's body).but always go to a vet FIRST!.


No. This is the SICKEST way to kill a reptile, Freezing is a very slow and painful death, however due to the low temps the animal cannot struggle so cannot show its discomfort in any way.
This is torture in my eyes, and people thinking of doing it (or doing it) should be taken round the back of the bin shed and shot!


----------



## jona

vitticeptus said:


> sawn off shotgun point blank to the face!


I knew a game keeper who did that to a dog who tried eating the estate owners pheasants.it was with a 20 gauge shotgun.:whip:


----------



## bobby

jona said:


> The ONLY humane way to put any reptile/snake down is to put it in a box or pillow case & then into the freezer for about a week.They seem to go into hibernation then die in thier sleep.I have had to do to a snake that was given to me with a broken back (it was paralyzed half way down it's body).but always go to a vet FIRST!.


You need to research your method.


----------



## JackieL

maddragon29 said:


> No. This is the SICKEST way to kill a reptile, Freezing is a very slow and painful death, however due to the low temps the animal cannot struggle so cannot show its discomfort in any way.
> This is torture in my eyes, and people thinking of doing it (or doing it) should be taken round the back of the bin shed and shot!


This^.

NO one should be ending a life, however you want to jazz it up with the 'humane' word, it's simply not your call.


----------



## bobby

JackieL said:


> This^.
> 
> NO one should be ending a life, however you want to jazz it up with the 'humane' word, it's simply not your call.


*except a vet :whistling2:


----------



## jona

bobby said:


> *except a vet :whistling2:


And the birds eye freezer bear


----------



## Meko

jona said:


> The ONLY humane way to put any reptile/snake down is to put it in a box or pillow case & then into the freezer for about a week.They seem to go into hibernation then die in thier sleep.I have had to do to a snake that was given to me with a broken back (it was paralyzed half way down it's body).but always go to a vet FIRST!.



fancy testing it? climb in the freezer and see if you want to get out because you're freezing, or if you start to hibernate.


----------



## jona

*I'm sorry*

Ok I stand corrected & feel ashamed I shall never freeze a reptile/snake again after reading
Freezing reptiles as a form of euthanasia | Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
I only did it the once as the snake was not feeding & had 2 broken bones (showed up on xray) & was unable to move or strike properly.
I had a freind who said it is was the humane thing to do.He worked in a zoo & owned herps for over 25 years.


----------



## bobby

jona said:


> Ok I stand corrected & feel ashamed I shall never freeze a reptile/snake again after reading
> Freezing reptiles as a form of euthanasia | Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
> I only did it the once as the snake was not feeding & had 2 broken bones (showed up on xray) & was unable to move or strike properly.
> I had a freind who said it is was the humane thing to do.He worked in a zoo & owned herps for over 25 years.


It's best to never rely on one source for information. People are idiots, especially "experts"........


----------



## trogdorable

thats ridiculous , youve honestly put your pets in the freezer to kill them?:censor:
ive done nothing but hear how painfull that method is for a cold blooded animal.
since your convinced its the only humane way to put them to sleep because they "SEEM" to go into hibernation , can you give some facts behind this being so , hard proven facts that this causes no pain to the animal?
surely no animal owner with even half a brain would put their animal through something potentially excruciatingly painfull without researching it first. :2wallbang:


----------



## trogdorable

just noticed your other reply saying youve realised its wrong.


----------



## jona

trogdorable said:


> thats ridiculous , youve honestly put your pets in the freezer to kill them?:censor:
> ive done nothing but hear how painfull that method is for a cold blooded animal.
> since your convinced its the only humane way to put them to sleep because they "SEEM" to go into hibernation , can you give some facts behind this being so , hard proven facts that this causes no pain to the animal?
> surely no animal owner with even half a brain would put their animal through something potentially excruciatingly painfull without researching it first. :2wallbang:


I froze 1 snake as directed by a freind with 25 years experiance with herps who said it was ok..LIKE I SAID I SHALL NEVER DO IT AGAIN AFTER WHAT I HAVE READ.


----------



## bobby

jona said:


> I froze 1 snake as directed by a freind with 25 years experiance with herps who said it was ok..LIKE I SAID I SHALL NEVER DO IT AGAIN AFTER WHAT I HAVE READ.


25 years experience with reps.....always makes me laugh when I hear comments like that.....

I've had a corn snake for 11 years......so what? :lol2:


----------



## Duey

jona said:


> Ok I stand corrected & feel ashamed I shall never freeze a reptile/snake again after reading
> Freezing reptiles as a form of euthanasia | Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
> I only did it the once as the snake was not feeding & had 2 broken bones (showed up on xray) & was unable to move or strike properly.
> I had a freind who said it is was the humane thing to do.He worked in a zoo & owned herps for over 25 years.


That is an interesting article. We recently had to put down a deformed baby Beardie whose mouth was only partially formed, this was done with a by hitting it with a brick whilst it was on a concrete wall. I am absolutely certain it was the quickest way to do it and was dead instantly.

It was unfortunate that it had to be done but these things happen. I wonder what a vet would have done with such a small lizard.


----------



## mrmrcarey

Page 33 June 2011 Practical Reptile Keeping, little piece on euthanasia to read through and educate you. Freezing bad, so so bad. (And yes I know its not out until Tuesday)


----------



## Bexzini

mrmrcarey said:


> Page 33 June 2011 Practical Reptile Keeping, little piece on euthanasia to read through and educate you. Freezing bad, so so bad. (And yes I know its not out until Tuesday)


I saw that as well, I was going to email them and highlight this thread, and possibly ask if they could include something about what everyone has been debating about- if you had to kill a reptile yourself how should you do it.


----------



## ..:: F1D0 ::..

The humane way to euthanise any animal is by an overdose of anesthetic....FACT! There is no paint or suffering.

There a few people who destroy the brain stem with a brick, but i could never do this myself.

Anybody who thinks its humane to put them in a freezer is quite simple a :censor:! It is basic science what extreme cold can do to the body. You would basically slow them down but they would still be alert and their blood would start to crystalize and their vital organs would shut down 1 by 1. This is also mentioned in this months PRK.


----------



## nicnet

ouch a touchy subject,

Vet if the situation calls for it. However we all know that there are some instances where the vet is just too far away and something needs to be done NOW. By the time you call the vet, get to him/her, or get them to drive out to you, then the animal is suffering.

I once seen a dog get hit by a car, it was wrapped around the cars axle and there was obviousy no way it was going to survive its injuries. A wagon driver pulled up and sat and petted it for a couple of mins, then suddenly twisted its neck. Instantly killing it. He was a huge burly guy and was sobbing when he got back out from under the car, but at least the poor dog was out of his misery.

This is often done by some breeders of other animals. Chickens, rabbits those are the two that I know of.

I would think this method would work just as effectivly with lizards.

It would be a hard thing to do, and I'm not sure I would ever be able to, but If it saved my baby from prolonged pain and suffering then I would have to.


----------



## Bexzini

nicnet said:


> ouch a touchy subject,
> 
> Vet if the situation calls for it. However we all know that there are some instances where the vet is just too far away and something needs to be done NOW. By the time you call the vet, get to him/her, or get them to drive out to you, then the animal is suffering.
> 
> I once seen a dog get hit by a car, it was wrapped around the cars axle and there was obviousy no way it was going to survive its injuries. A wagon driver pulled up and sat and petted it for a couple of mins, then suddenly twisted its neck. Instantly killing it. He was a huge burly guy and was sobbing when he got back out from under the car, but at least the poor dog was out of his misery.
> 
> This is often done by some breeders of other animals. Chickens, rabbits those are the two that I know of.
> 
> I would think this method would work just as effectivly with lizards.
> 
> It would be a hard thing to do, and I'm not sure I would ever be able to, but If it saved my baby from prolonged pain and suffering then I would have to.


Thats horrible about the dog. The article in PRK was interesting, but there is still a massive gap in the literature about euthanising a reptile in the home environment. I live an hour away from the nearest reptile vet when I go home (at uni its 20 mins away) and I have my chameleon here, and I think, what the HELL would I do if anything drastic happened.


----------



## wharfboy

I'm absolutely new to this forum, so feel I don't really have a place posting here on this thread, but just a thought if I may...

Yes, if the animal was in a terrible mess, someone with a very brave heart would be absolutely right to end its life in the quickest way possible for the animal. What worries me is the effect on the keeper/owner too. I've had to take one pet to the vet to be put down and it was terrible (but felt right, so much better than mishandling the situation myself). I'd always just beg, borrow, steal my way to the vet if I could and time allowed. Yes, I'd pick up that brick if I had to, but I'd really consider selling my soul to buy time for a vet. 

Look after your little ones, and yourselves x


----------

