# APA, The woman's off again



## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Wildlife group threatens to sue Kempton Park - Staines News

More lies and miss information from our favourit tree hugger.

Gordon
FBH VC


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## cokacola (Jan 11, 2007)

Good lord. I find the mentality of some people impossible to understand.


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

She's getting boring now, same old market wording, rinse and repeat with different place name. Be interested to see what evidence she has, apparently she had enough for prosecutions for Kidderminster last year, hmm.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

lo, I think the fact that there was a customs and excise stall there as well speaks volumes, they would hardly attend an Illegal event :lol2:

Odd how after every show they fail to stop this 'we will prosecute ' rubbish is spouted, sour grapes I think.


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## Dragon Wolf (Oct 27, 2009)

That woman is a pointless waste of space using up valuable oxygen to spout nothing more than utter crap every time she opens her stupid mouth.

All she's doing is seeking attention for her pointless campaign, I wish she would take a very long walk off a very short pier and do the world a favour!!


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

As a side note, perhaps the Racecourse should consider taking action against her as an individual and the APA as a company for the slander and Liable that they are spewing publicly.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

She said: "Reptiles are hard-wired for the wild. They don't adapt well to captivity and being kept in such conditions, even for a few hours. We are compiling our evidence of some of the countless offences that were committed.

Please. If anything I think most of my captives would die of shock if I returned them to where ever it is they occur naturally. 

Is this woman wired to the Moon? I've never met her (nor read much about her) but already feel like slapping her across the face with the back of my hand.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

*Wildlife group threatens to sue Kempton Park *

Wildlife group ? they are an animal rights business.
And what do animal rights do best, threaten people, businesses, councils, reptile clubs, and anyone else to get themselfs in the news.

They have nothing but threats and lies.


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

wohic said:


> As a side note, perhaps the Racecourse should consider taking action against her as an individual and the APA as a company for the slander and Liable that they are spewing publicly.


Thats a good point, APA should be getting sued here.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

how come nobody has booted her in the snatch yet?


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## Pete Q (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh, and well done to Kempton Park Racecourse and Council's trading standards department for standing up to these bullys.


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## Dragon Wolf (Oct 27, 2009)

Meko said:


> how come nobody has booted her in the snatch yet?


Her mouth's a bigger target


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

The silly cow.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

end of the day i can't see what harm she's doing. Her and he merry band of mentalists spend so much time pissing and moaning about anything; that surely nobody takes them seriously any more and they've lost all credability?


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Meko said:


> end of the day i can't see what harm she's doing. Her and he merry band of mentalists spend so much time pissing and moaning about anything; that surely nobody takes them seriously any more and they've lost all credability?


It only takes one idiot to convince the rest. Look at religion!


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Meko said:


> end of the day i can't see what harm she's doing. Her and he merry band of mentalists spend so much time pissing and moaning about anything; that surely nobody takes them seriously any more and they've lost all credability?


You would _think_ that, but they still haven't been exposed in the slightest.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

and they haven't managed to do anything either... have they?


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

wohic said:


> As a side note, perhaps the Racecourse should consider taking action against her as an individual and the APA as a company for the slander and Liable that they are spewing publicly.


I looked into it after Kiddy show last year. Would cost FBH £10,000's to get the entire thing through court and id imagine APA would just drag the whole thing out and waste our time and money.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Meko said:


> and they haven't managed to do anything either... have they?



Apart from dishing out misinformation to the uninformed public, swaying their opinions with lies and false figures, giving good keepers a bad name in the eyes of the public. Bear in mind many Councils would rather say no to something (a breeders meeting that has been incorrectly labelled as an animal market by the APA (on purpose) and the press (through ignorance and trying to remain neutral)) than have to deal with a political backlash in any form. They have a tendancy to act quickly without proper consideration if they think they have done something wrong and need to cover their asses. This is what the APA want.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Zak said:


> I looked into it after Kiddy show last year. Would cost FBH £10,000's to get the entire thing through court and id imagine APA would just drag the whole thing out and waste our time and money.


what we need is a well respected and perhaps semi retired barrister to take on the case for free.
I may ask around.


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

wohic said:


> what we need is a well respected and perhaps semi retired barrister to take on the case for free.
> I may ask around.


Unfortunately i dont know any. However i did speak to a solictor who specialised in libel cases and his reply did consist of words such as 'open and shut'.

Just a note, incase papers/APA/IAR start deleting and retracting statements and articles i always save a copy. Im amassing quite a nice collection.


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## David L (Jul 13, 2009)

Killer statement of course - 
Lee O'Neil, head of environmental health and building control, said: "Officers from Spelthorne visited the Reptile Expo on August 15 and were satisfied there were no breaches of the Pet Animals Act 1951 at the time of their visit."

IN YOUR FACE ELAINE!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash:


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

How much does it cost to 'threaten legal action' in the same way they are here?

Cant FBH issue a press statement saying they are considering legal action for slander and so on?


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

excession said:


> How much does it cost to 'threaten legal action' in the same way they are here?
> 
> Cant FBH issue a press statement saying they are considering legal action for slander and so on?


The words are free action would cost but as far as I can see this is just words from her at the moment. 

Gordon
FBH VC


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## shep1979 (Feb 24, 2008)

Her best comment "sell ur surplus to pets at home" wot so they can all end up dead:whistling2:


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

So why do the FBH not issue a statement to match hers? Considering bringing legal action etc..


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

excession said:


> So why do the FBH not issue a statement to match hers? Considering bringing legal action etc..


Because at the moment we can say that she is always making these silly claims but nothing ever comes of them. 

Were as all she can say about us is that when we say something it's true and based on facts. 

That's got to niggle her a bit:2thumb:

Also there is an old saying about giving some one enough rope. We are letting her have as much rope as she wants to take at the moment. 

Gordon

FBH VC


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

*AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW TO THE ALLEGATIONS MADE BY ELAINE TOLAND OF THE ANIMAL PROTECTION AGENCY LTD. *


A WILDLIFE protection group is threatening to sue Kempton Park Racecourse for allowing sales of reptiles that it claims are illegal.

The APA is not a wildlife protection group, it is a fanatical Animal Rights Business, a highly profitable Limited company, is threatening to sue Kempton Park Racecourse for allowing a perfectly legal event to take place. Despite some intense investigation into the activities of the APA, no evidence of any wildlife protection activities have ever surfaced, in fact the APA spend a considerable amount of time and resource promoting the idea that human interaction with wildlife is extremely undesirable, not to mention unhealthy.

The Animal Protection Agency (APA) says it has enough evidence to prosecute the racecourse and individual stallholders.

Then present the evidence to a Court without further delay – in other words put up or shut up! 

….and it accuses Spelthorne Council of being naive by misinterpreting the law and letting a Reptile Expo go ahead.

The Council acted with due diligence and complied with the law, rather than being bulled and threaded by Animal Rights business. 

The APA's Elaine Toland, said thousands of reptiles and amphibians were kept in tiny, plastic takeaway tubs at the market on Sunday, August 15.

A large number of captive bred reptiles and amphibians were offered for sale by legitimate breeders. These were displayed in containers best suited to meet their welfare needs. ET frequently allows her dislike of reptiles to unduly influence her campaigns and her rabble-rousing anti-reptile rhetoric has had an extremely negative effect on public perception of reptiles, leading to potential conservation concerns. 

She said: "It is extremely stressful for them. The suffering of some was clearly visible. Selling pets at markets was outlawed in 1983. There are only a handful of markets in the UK - Doncaster, Portsmouth, Kidderminster, Maidstone and Bromsgrove”.

A qualified vet highly experienced in reptiles was present through the day and noted no animals in distress. The Councils listed, and many others, observe the law and do not obstruct legal events. The reason there are now so few events at which animal keepers can meet and exchange stock is solely down to bullying from AR activists such as Elaine. They don’t want people keeping pets and are prepared to go to any lengths to obstruct people who wish to do so. Reptile keepers are seen as a minority group and are, therefore, particularly vulnerable to bullying 

"These markets are new to Spelthorne and we are concerned the council has misinterpreted the law."

This was the first event of this kind held at Kempton Park and both the owners and council complied with all legal requirements. 

Ms Toland said non-profit seeking owners could sell the offspring of pets at home, but it was illegal for unlicensed "hobbyists" to sell pets commercially at market.

Breeders’ meetings where hobbyists sell surplus stock are completely legal and above board. Her reference to unlicensed hobbyists is nonsensical as keeping pets is not a licensable activity.

She said: "Reptiles are hard-wired for the wild”. 

The concept that reptiles are hard-wired for the wild is downright stupid and has no meaning whatsoever. Reptiles, like most animals (except possibly AR activists), are extremely adaptable and were they “hard-wired” for a given situation would have been unable to exist in the wide range of habitats in which they are found. 

“They don't adapt well to captivity and being kept in such conditions, even for a few hours.”

Hang on, Elaine, these animals were born in captivity and many are second or third (or even more) generation captive-bred. AR rhetoric sounds good, plucks at the old heart strings and leads to donations but it’s actually meaningless drivel to which no person with an iota of common sense or understanding of animals would give any credence. Captive reptiles have longer (and healthier) lives than their wild counterparts so the suggestion that they cannot handle a few hours at a show is utter nonsense – as Elaine knows very well. 


"The racecourse and individual traders could face prosecution."

If Elaine genuinely belies that offences have been committed then she should present her evidence to a Court with all due expediency. 

However, Amy Starkey, managing director of Kempton Park Racecourse, said: "We worked very closely with Spelthorne Council's trading standards department in the lead-up to the event.

"There were environmental health officers present working closely with the Kempton Park team to ensure there were no breaches of legislation."

Lee O'Neil, head of environmental health and building control, said: "Officers from Spelthorne visited the Reptile Expo on August 15 and were satisfied there were no breaches of the Pet Animals Act 1951 at the time of their visit."

It is a great pity that ET has once again chosen to pick on a minority group and that, in spite of efforts to stamp out bullying in schools and the work place, this kind of intimidation is still allowed to continue. Reptile keepers are, in general, tend to be extremely well-versed in conservation issues and the need to educate the general public as to the value of species which may not always receive the best press. Unfortunately Elaine is on a one-man (or woman) crusade against reptiles, possibly due to her own fears, dislikes and ignorance, and she has worked tirelessly to proliferate falsehoods about reptiles to exploit public fears in order to cynically generate revenue. Such tactics should be condemned by true animal lovers and all effort made to correct the damage being done. 

Elaine has single-handedly done more to damage the public perception of reptiles than any other source and probably represents the biggest threat to reptiles, both wild and captive, in the UK today. This is surely a fitting legacy for her to leave to future generations – nice on, Elaine.


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## excession (Apr 11, 2009)

Brilliant response.

Will post this on my facebook page.


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> Her best comment "sell ur surplus to pets at home"


Not that I support this silly bitch in any way, but what she actually said was 


> non-profit seeking owners could sell the offspring of pets at home


ie, you can sell them to other people in the privacy of your own home, not sell them to Pets At Home!


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