# Viperkeeper tells it like it is...



## Viperkeeper

This is sort of part FAQ part 2 and a Rant about things that annoy the hell out of me about (other people in) the hobby.

YouTube - Viperkeeper Rant


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## leptophis

thats quite interesting considering, how many things you do which might annoy other venomous keepers, do they rant about you, not that i have seen on this forum, must be a cultural thing


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## SiUK

I often think that about the gaboons, people see one side of it (the good side) without really seeing how bad a bite would be. Venomous snakes in the terranium is a good book, some of it at the start went a bit over my head, but all the husbandry stuff is easy to understand and I use it for reference.


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## glidergirl

I hate the way alot of venomous keepers think they are 'elite' and above everyone else because they keep something you need a license for! 

There's lots I could rant on about, but I'd just get myself in trouble (as usual). :whistling2:


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## SiUK

glidergirl said:


> I hate the way alot of venomous keepers think they are 'elite' and above everyone else because they keep something you need a license for!


funnily enough I was just discussing that with someone last night.


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## Viperkeeper

leptophis said:


> thats quite interesting considering, how many things you do which might annoy other venomous keepers, do they rant about you, not that i have seen on this forum, must be a cultural thing


Oh yes, I'm not immune. It's gennerally a young male <25yrs, flexing his testerone, mistaking that substance for knowledge and experience.



Cheers!

Al


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## DeanThorpe

now checking out the vid... cant wait lol

edit.
well said on all of it i think.
Although some books may not be up to standard, even to the standard of a reptile forum like this one.
Gota get the info first, then ask an expert on anything that you may find contradicting views on but not waste busy peoples time with the crap.


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## leptophis

inmdeed marie same here, me ranting allways gets me in trouble, i have learnt that its less important after a long soak in the bath,


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## Viperkeeper

glidergirl said:


> I hate the way alot of venomous keepers think they are 'elite' and above everyone else because they keep something you need a license for!
> 
> There's lots I could rant on about, but I'd just get myself in trouble (as usual). :whistling2:


There is that word again "elite"....:notworthy:

Being licensed to do "something", no matter what it is: flying an airplane, being a doctor, engineer, train conductor, soldier, or a DWA keeper has nothing to do at all with being elite. It's all about taking the right steps to become proficent in a task or trade and having peer review of your proficiency. No one is *exempt* from any of these tasks/trade, just that the individual lacks the motovation to assend to that level. 

That's what annoys me! Whats wrong with demanding that people read books to learn more about what they claim is a hobby they love?

Cheers!

Al


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## Angi

glidergirl said:


> I hate the way alot of venomous keepers think they are 'elite' and above everyone else because they keep something you need a license for!
> 
> There's lots I could rant on about, but I'd just get myself in trouble (as usual). :whistling2:


Im right behind you there, but keeping my lips sealed like a good girl:lol2:


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## glidergirl

leptophis said:


> inmdeed marie same here, me ranting allways gets me in trouble, i have learnt that its less important after a long soak in the bath,


Or in my case, after a huge box of choccies 



Viperkeeper said:


> There is that word again "elite"....:notworthy:
> 
> Being licensed to do "something", no matter what it is: flying an airplane, being a doctor, engineer, train conductor, soldier, or a DWA keeper has nothing to do at all with being elite. It's all about taking the right steps to become proficent in a task or trade and having peer review of your proficiency. No one is *exempt* from any of these tasks/trade, just that the individual lacks the motovation to assend to that level.
> 
> That's what annoys me! Whats wrong with demanding that people read books to learn more about what they claim is a hobby they love?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Al


I agree,  




Angi said:


> Im right behind you there, but keeping my lips sealed like a good girl:lol2:


:lol2:


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## brian

glidergirl said:


> I hate the way alot of venomous keepers think they are 'elite' and above everyone else because they keep something you need a license for!
> 
> There's lots I could rant on about, but I'd just get myself in trouble (as usual). :whistling2:


 
I am saying nothing aswell as sometimes it gets blown out of proportion :whistling2:


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## SiUK

if we all said nothing it would be a bloody boring place:lol2:


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## glidergirl

I was just thinking that myself!!! Lol, we're all being VERY good : victory:


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## emergency0311

I must admit, I do watch a lot of viperkeepers videos and I listen very carefully to what he say's as I should be getting my first 'hot' in the spring. I think he is very good at what he does and I have the utmost respect for him.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AL!!!!!


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## Viperkeeper

SiUK said:


> if we all said nothing it would be a bloody boring place:lol2:


That's another reason I said what I said... Everybody is afraid to speak whats on their mind on many issues before us(world). Debate is good, silence is bad. Some issues are very difficult to resolve, it's ok to disagree, just keep it respectable. :bash: :censor:


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## Viperkeeper

emergency0311 said:


> I must admit, I do watch a lot of viperkeepers videos and I listen very carefully to what he say's as I should be getting my first 'hot' in the spring. I think he is very good at what he does and I have the utmost respect for him.
> 
> KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AL!!!!!


Thanks...keep in mind...

I'm not perfect or infalable and have been wrong many times in life. I just observe the data (feedback), analyze, and come to conclusion. I spent almost $800 on reference books last year, plus read many peer review papers publised in journals on the subject. No reason every other hobbiest cannot either invest in their own reference library or at least spend time at a public library.

Cheers!

Al


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## crotalus

*Jfc!*

AL, I do respect your knowledge, experience, and your snake handling skills. No question there. Your snakes are some of the most beautiful snakes I personally have ever seen. 
BUT, to see a grown man cry and whine like a bitch the way you did there makes me want to vomit

pathetic.


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## Angi

Viperkeeper said:


> Thanks...keep in mind...
> 
> I'm not perfect or infalable and have been wrong many times in life. I just observe the data (feedback), analyze, and come to conclusion. I spent almost $800 on reference books last year, plus read many peer review papers publised in journals on the subject. No reason every other hobbiest cannot either invest in their own reference library or at least spend time at a public library.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Al


 I will eat my hat( or maybe my hairband, lol) when I find a public library in the UK that has a decent book on Venomous snakes:Na_Na_Na_Na:. I love reading but find amazon and nhbc are the way to go for books in the UK.


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## weelad

iv never read a book about snakes yet :lol2: i can get all that info on the net for free whats so diffrent, couldnt watch the vid as all my plug sockets are taken up with snakes, my brothers lizard, the pc and the tv and the tv box lol too much crap


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## Fangio

weelad said:


> iv never read a book about snakes yet :lol2: i can get all that info on the net for free whats so diffrent, couldnt watch the vid as all my plug sockets are taken up with snakes, my brothers lizard, the pc and the tv and the tv box lol too much crap


The problem with the internet is that anyone can just knock up a website. Usually you can see the ones which have been written by people who haven't a clue about the species but not always. 

For example I could do a website on keeping king cobras, having never been anywhere near the species and some numpty could come along and take my words as gospel. 

There's a lot of rubbish on the web........saying that I've read some crap books too - mostly the older ones to be fair.


Oh and good rant Al! Nothing there that didn't need to be said I feel. It's important for people to do their research before bringing home an animal!!


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## Eric

Al 
You know the story you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of them all the time. 

I personally liked Al's rant especially the part concerning the simple questions. Alot of the forum experts no long post or visit some forums due to the same simple questions posted over and over. People should really know the answers before purchasing the snake in the first place or just look it up in google. 

I ask some of the simple questions Before I get a new snake once in a while. I offer up what I know and have learned on my own along with my question. The main reason for this is to get a second opinion and conformation this info is correct. The other reason is to get a second opinion every keeper does it different. What works for one person will not work for another. Also to make sure I haven't over looked something which is not likely in most cases. 

Trust me people I'm far from and expert maybe a beginner novice at best. I have based my hobby on safe handling and basic husbandry and care of the snakes up to this point. I'm now furthering my interest and there is so much to learn. 

Well enough of my rant not sure where I was going with any of this just thinking out loud. 

Eric G.


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## crotalus

*Don't ask me! I'm too God D&%m good!*

If you don't want to answer the same questions then don't. Trying to get people to stop asking questions, especially the beginners, goes against the very purpose these forums were meant for. Some folks need to get off there %$#&ing podiums and get over themselves. 
Arrogant F&%#s.


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## Eric

You just need to drink more beer!


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## crotalus

*no kidding*



Eric said:


> You just need to drink more beer!


I had to laugh when I read that. So true. But only after the venomous are cared for.


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## Eric

Glad I could cheer you up a little seems like your in a fowl mood.


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## HABU

what's the big deal?...hots are like any other snake or animal for that matter. each has to be treated according to it's peculiarities. a rattlesnake is still just a snake, you just can't dick around with them. in the marines we carried hand grenades and claymores. they were perfectly safe as long as you gave them respect they were entitled to. they only way that you could feel calm in handling them was to learn all about them and never forget the damage that they will do if you get lax with them. they didn't care anything about you. it was up to you to know how to handle them properly. at least a mamba won't instantly kill everyone within 50 meters. venomous snakes are just things that require a bit of knowlege and experience. and always remember....they will never forgive you. i remember my first eastern diamondback i caught in florida, i was shaking like a leaf!...and i'd had some experience but this big one, i knew would definately put me in a hurt locker!........so i gave it the caution and respect it demanded. you can never get sloppy....... over confidence is the enemy. a careful 10 year old is much better than a sloppy, callous 40 year old.......like playing with a gun.......just my slant on things....


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## crotalus

*Not really.*



Eric said:


> Glad I could cheer you up a little seems like your in a fowl mood.


Just don't care much for the "Don't ask me I am too F%$#ing good to answer you" attitude.


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## HABU

all the brits are studying us yanks now.... crotalus has the "F*#K that noise!" attitude!...i hear ya!!: victory:


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## Eric

I don't think that is what Al was saying at all. He was talking about the people that run out and buy a snake bring it home and have absolutly no idea how to care for it. Then they come to the forum and ask the simpliest questions. The questions they ask prove they know nothing of the snake and probably should not even own the snake.


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## Viperkeeper

crotalus said:


> AL, I do respect your knowledge, experience, and your snake handling skills. No question there. Your snakes are some of the most beautiful snakes I personally have ever seen.
> BUT, to see a grown man cry and whine like a bitch the way you did there makes me want to vomit
> 
> pathetic.


Glad I could provide you with such a pleasent feeling.


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## crotalus

Never been one to hold back what I have to say.


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## Eric

I have to say I have met Al on a few occasions at the reptile shows and he has never turned his nose up or refused to answer any questions asked by myself or others in the crowd. 

I also know Al will mentor new comers to the hobby if they live within a reasonable distance. I was offered once upon a time but I lived to far south to make is feasible.


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## crotalus

*What ever*

Just don't like the tude in the video.


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## Viperkeeper

I still answer basic questions all of the time....Matter of fact, I'm helping the guy who bought the Rhino's & Gabby's I spoke of in my Rant. He made a mistake, one that has not fully played out yet, so do I let him flounder loose the animals or get bit? That's not being a responsable member of this community either. BTW, he emailed me because he watched the video and asked for a list of basic books for him to buy. The whole idea was to expose a serious problem so others don't make the same mistake. He understands now too. : victory:


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## DeanThorpe

I know jack about hots [infact, thats the first time ive said "hots" refering to a snake] but i love watching viperkeepers vids and totally understood the rant vid and thought it was totally cool.

he didnt say dont ask me stuff on the forum, i assumed he meant emails, on youtube etc..stuff you can find anywhere.

But either way, whatever, we are all busy.
Im thankfull for the time you take to coem here and link your vids if nothing else dude: victory:


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## CBR1100XX

Well I can see nothing wrong in the rant as I can imagine some of the questions Al is asked time and time again. 

For me I await my next subscription email to tell me there is another Vid from ViperKeeper to watch.

Keep up the good work Al and calender is received many thanks. All the best for 2008 mate and keep them vids coming:thumb:


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## Viperkeeper

DeanThorpe said:


> I know jack about hots [infact, thats the first time ive said "hots" refering to a snake] but i love watching viperkeepers vids and totally understood the rant vid and thought it was totally cool.
> 
> he didnt say dont ask me stuff on the forum, i assumed he meant emails, on youtube etc..stuff you can find anywhere.
> 
> But either way, whatever, we are all busy.
> Im thankfull for the time you take to coem here and link your vids if nothing else dude: victory:


I enjoy visiting with my UK friends, you very welcome.



fazer600sy said:


> Well I can see nothing wrong in the rant as I can imagine some of the questions Al is asked time and time again.
> 
> For me I await my next subscription email to tell me there is another Vid from ViperKeeper to watch.
> 
> Keep up the good work Al and calender is received many thanks. All the best for 2008 mate and keep them vids coming:thumb:


I have a new video ready for upload "Little Green Meanie" :twisted: I sure glad it's less than 1 meter and not 2. I'll put it up over the weekend when this turmoil subsides.

Thanks for you kind words,

Cheers!

Al


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## crotalus

Viperkeeper said:


> I enjoy visiting with my UK friends, you very welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a new video ready for upload "Little Green Meanie" :twisted: I sure glad it's less than 1 meter and not 2. I'll put it up over the weekend when this turmoil subsides.
> 
> Thanks for you kind words,
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Al


"I will put it up when this turmoil subsides". You HAVE to be joking. JFC. What turmoil? One man expresses a negative opinion about one of your little videos and you reply with this???? HAHA!
My original statement rings true!
HAHA!
act your %$#&ing age man.


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## Viperkeeper

Every forum has a resident jack ass, I think I've discovered yours...


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## crotalus

*I found YOURS?*



Viperkeeper said:


> Every forum has a resident jack ass, I think I've discovered yours...


Hey folks, guess he doesn't consider himself as a part of the forum. Thats right, He's too damn good to stoop that low. I am done here.


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## HABU

Viperkeeper said:


> Every forum has a resident jack ass, I think I've discovered yours...


 
you guys are just comming from different directions......no need to collide.


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## brittone05

Thanks for another good video Al 

I must say, you didn't look as I expected you to - don't ask what I expected because I don't know maybe it is a prebuilt psychological conception of what conforms to societies idea of a venemous snake keeper 

I agree with your words also - I couldn't watch all of the video as my laptop went a bit crazy. I don't see why anyone should not be able to research basic care information such as temperatures before they bring an animal home. I also understand how it must be rather frustrating receiving many mails containing the same question over and over again by people who have seen Gabby and your other charges on Youtube. They problebly have never seen a snake in real life yet they still ask basic care info!

I am confused as to why Crotalus feels we are "bootlickers" though! Many of the people here who follow Al's videos are either venemous keepers themselves and interested in the different handling methods and such he uses or, they are people like myself - I would never in a million years be able to work with venemous snakes. I have neither the space, money nor inclination to do so. To be able to have a slight view into the world of a respected venemous keeper who openly shares his day to day routine with whoever wishes to see is a privilige. 

MY rant over now lol 

Thanks again Al and I shall look forward to watching more of your videos this year - I hope 2008 sees you safe, healthy and happy


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## Eric

I'm gonna get a little off the Al topic here. We all come to this forums cause we have a similar interest in keeping venomous snakes. The purpose to share, learn, and grow in this hobby. 

What I don't understand and this is not only on this forum but many others is this. Why people have to use fowl language and belittle others rather than having a decent conversation and just stating their opinion without insulting someone else. I know we're gonna disagree if we didn't life would be boring but what's the deal with the name calling 2nd grader attitude. 

I know the Internet takes the humanity out of these conversations and it's easy to forget you are talking to a real person on the other end. I guess without a face people feel they can treat someone else like crap and have no second thoughts about it. All I'm saying is maybe we should all think a little before we post. If your really pissed there is a better way than coming off like a hot headed teenager to argue your point.


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## HABU

crotalus is entitled to his opinion, good or bad, as much as anyone. no harm, no fault. he stated his feelings and that is that.... now bad language is another matter but oops!...that's not a hanging offense.

it is what it is...nothing more to it.


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## Viperkeeper

I said this on page one of this thread:



Viperkeeper said:


> That's another reason I said what I said... Everybody is afraid to speak whats on their mind on many issues before us(world). Debate is good, silence is bad. Some issues are very difficult to resolve, it's ok to disagree, just keep it respectable. :bash: :censor:


 
I agree Eric this is an all to common occurance on most forums, at least Crotalus is not playing the part of a troll and speaking annomously. Indeed civility seems to left the planet.


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## Eric

HABU said:


> crotalus is entitled to his opinion, good or bad, as much as anyone. no harm, no fault. he stated his feelings and that is that.....


You couldn't be more right! I also want to say the above post as well as this one are not directed at Terry. 

Out of respect for others on the forum and the person your addressing there is a proper way to present your opinion. I come to this forum because people more laid back and even in a heated debate refrain from personal attacks more often than not. The personal attacks may be part of your opinion but then it turns into a pissing contest and nothing gets resolved. 

Everyone is entiltled to their opnion sure but is there really a need for personal attacks along with the opinion. I also don't feel poeple would spout off near as much as they do on the forums if they were standing face to face. 

Basically it boild down to the golden rule.


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## HABU

true...but he didn't mince his words...i got to respect that...he spoke his peace and that's that....no one pursued things....does viperkeeper have any doubt to where crotalus stands?....no, and with his amazing experience with those wonderful hots...he , more than anyone knows how to just take things as it comes.....crotalus is a good guy, there was just a pissing contest here. he spoke his mind.


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## Eric

I really wasn't directing any of my recent post towards Al or Terry just giving my opinion.


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## Viperkeeper

Hey! Let's top beating a dead horse and move on...case closed.


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## brian

Some great vids keep um coming thanks from us ...Brian


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## kaimarion

There where alot of ummmmmmmmmm's during the fist 5 minutes...was starting to cringe lol .Anyway good vid , you certainly have to do alot of work when cleaning out vivs and feeding them.


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## Viperkeeper

kaimarion said:


> There where alot of ummmmmmmmmm's during the fist 5 minutes...was starting to cringe lol .Anyway good vid , you certainly have to do alot of work when cleaning out vivs and feeding them.


Ya know something.. You guys have a point..... I was editing some video tonight and I listened to the ummm.. ahhhs Too many for my liking. I will try to work on that problem..... :blush:


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## Eric

Al I wouldn't change your Videos. The thing that makes them great is the fact it's some guy with his snakes. Complete reality no set up or plan for the most part just you doing your thing. 

My thought if you want to see a flawless and scripted performance watch animal planet. The vids are original. Keep up the good work.


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## SiUK

I agree with Eric, doesnt bother me about the umms I like to watch the vids to see you talk about the animals, whether theres a few umms in there doesnt matter IMO


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## Fixx

I agree with both Eric and Si, it makes it more personal Al, I like your videos the way they are, un-scripted and un-edited. I'd rather watch your videos over anything they show on Discovery or Nat Geo any day of the week.


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## HABU

it's all cool....we aren't enemies here...just a thing... both viperkeeper and crotalus are big enough men to let it go....i can bet on that....a little exchange, no one is the worse for wear. no big deal.:no1:


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## cat_hendry

I think you only notice the Ummmms when you listen for them.... once the snake stuff got going i dont notice at all 

great videos by the way... you have an awesome collection


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## Andy

Viperkeeper said:


> This is sort of part FAQ part 2 and a Rant about things that annoy the hell out of me about (other people in) the hobby.
> 
> YouTube - Viperkeeper Rant


Brilliant video was just wondering though if you kep any non-venomous and if you have any hints on getting my ball python feeding :whistling2::lol2:


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## Viperkeeper

Andy said:


> Brilliant video was just wondering though if you kep any non-venomous and if you have any hints on getting my ball python feeding :whistling2::lol2:


Ball Pythons? Isn't that what King Cobra's prefer to eat? :whistling2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Andy

Viperkeeper said:


> Ball Pythons? Isn't that what King Cobra's prefer to eat? :whistling2: :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Now a video of that would get the trolls out in force!:lol2:


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## maffy

*Reading, Watching & Learning*

Great vid as always Al. Anyone saying "hey I've gone and bought an Impulsis Dangeris, whats the best temperature?" type of question really needs polite direction. Prior research is reasonable and necessary, as we all love snakes (reptiles etc).

Personally I think its marvellous that well known venomous snake experts are, of course, buying and reading fellow snake expert material. 

What excuse do we have? I'm reading three right now! :lol2: Oh and Mark O'Shea's "Venomous Snakes of the World" comes highly recommended by the way. My brother and I have a copy each!! Yup that good :no1:

Do you enjoy sharing your personal experiences and personal knowledge about reptiles and how to handle/solve specific issues that we as herp hobbyists face?

Y E A H !!!!! We all do or we wouldn't be on here, right???

:welcome: Maffy, just a man. :2thumb:


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## weelad

maffy said:


> Great vid as always Al. Anyone saying "hey I've gone and bought an Impulsis Dangeris, whats the best temperature?" type of question really needs polite direction. Prior research is reasonable and necessary, as we all love snakes (reptiles etc).
> 
> Personally I think its marvellous that well known venomous snake experts are, of course, buying and reading fellow snake expert material.
> 
> What excuse do we have? I'm reading three right now! :lol2: Oh and Mark O'Shea's "Venomous Snakes of the World" comes highly recommended by the way. My brother and I have a copy each!! Yup that good :no1:
> 
> Do you enjoy sharing your personal experiences and personal knowledge about reptiles and how to handle/solve specific issues that we as herp hobbyists face?
> 
> Y E A H !!!!! We all do or we wouldn't be on here, right???
> 
> :welcome: Maffy, just a man. :2thumb:


thats right .. bump a year old thread :lol2:


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## leeh1985

viperkeeper just wanted to saygood video, I totally understand were youare coming, I don't keep venomous myself yet but understand it must be a pain in the ass when you get easy enough questions thrown at you when all it takes is a 5minute look on the internet.
I have to admit I haven't really seen any of your videos but was glued too youtube for an hour watching some of them! lol.

I do have one question for you, apart from the two king cobra's and forest cobra I saw in your vids do you keep any other specie of cobra at all and also how is that baby king getting on now?

lee.


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## maffy

*Weelad*

Thanks for noticing haha. :lol2::lol2: I enjoyed the vid anyway and it is a good book. 


weelad said:


> thats right .. bump a year old thread :lol2:


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## paraman

Viperkeeper said:


> Oh yes, I'm not immune. It's gennerally a young male <25yrs, flexing his testerone, mistaking that substance for knowledge and experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Al


 The technical expression is "confusing ambition with ability" or of course youth and exuberance are no match for age and treachery


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