# Frogs, newts and now toads!



## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi all, 9 years ago we dug a 8metre diameter pond in our field. It fairly quickly had frogs spawning in there and then newts. Well this year I have seen some toad spawn as well - very, very happy. Just wanted to share :2thumb:


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## matt1993 (Jul 7, 2009)

well done its good to see some people are giving back to nature and not just taking from it:no1:


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## Woodsman (Aug 12, 2008)

Well done!
We did the same about ten years ago with similar arrivals,but what made us really happy was when Grass Snakes arrived and started breeding in the adjacent compost heap(mountain).
Unfortunately 2 years ago neighbours moved in with 2 cats which quickly set about killing the snakes.:whip:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I would just adore to have grass snakes there but I fear my OH mows the grass around it too short. Hey ho.


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## gw5458 (Jan 3, 2010)

My garden is pretty well supplied with slow worms, frogs, toads and newts. I gave up using a lawnmower after mincing far too many of them. Now I only use a petrol strimmer. I keep the postage-stamp of grass closest to the road fairly short but the rest (about 1/4 acre) is ankle-deep or longer. I find that most of the wildlife manages to keep its head down as I pass or at least has enough warning to hop/slither away safely. Must have cut the casualty rate by 80% or more. Also helps encourage wild flowers and insects for all the herps and other wildlife to chew on.


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

The only problem you have is that generally speaking frogs and toads will not 'share' the pond, whoever is second spawning (normally the toads!) will eat the the first lots spawn, getting rid of the competition for its own tadpoles, usually you just get one or the other but not both together, they just don't play nicely togther, let us know how things pan out. Note both Frogs and Toads wil pick on the newts together, if I had to choose, i'd go for the newts, as they are the rarer species here and very pretty to boot!
If your pond is big enough, they may decide to divide the space, but this rarely happens, mostly whoever arrives last wants total domination and just wipes out the competition, by killing off all the babies it can find. Sorry for the dampener, but I've seen this happen so many times all over the place, good luck!


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

loonymoony said:


> The only problem you have is that generally speaking frogs and toads will not 'share' the pond, whoever is second spawning (normally the toads!) will eat the the first lots spawn, getting rid of the competition for its own tadpoles, usually you just get one or the other but not both together, they just don't play nicely togther, let us know how things pan out. Note both Frogs and Toads wil pick on the newts together, if I had to choose, i'd go for the newts, as they are the rarer species here and very pretty to boot!
> If your pond is big enough, they may decide to divide the space, but this rarely happens, mostly whoever arrives last wants total domination and just wipes out the competition, by killing off all the babies it can find. Sorry for the dampener, but I've seen this happen so many times all over the place, good luck!


Sorry but this is total tripe
Frogs and toads do not eat each others spawn. The reason you rarely find them together is becuase frogs prefer to lay early in shallow ponds and toads prefer to lay later in deeper ponds. If you have a deep pond with shallow areas both species will use it.
Frogs and toads may eat the occasional newt but in the main newts probably eat more tadpoles than the other way around.
And finally newts are no more rare than frogs and toads. Natterjacks and GCN's are rare the rest aren't.

Natrix


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

loonymoony said:


> The only problem you have is that generally speaking frogs and toads will not 'share' the pond, whoever is second spawning (normally the toads!) will eat the the first lots spawn, getting rid of the competition for its own tadpoles, usually you just get one or the other but not both together, they just don't play nicely togther, let us know how things pan out. Note both Frogs and Toads wil pick on the newts together, if I had to choose, i'd go for the newts, as they are the rarer species here and very pretty to boot!
> If your pond is big enough, they may decide to divide the space, but this rarely happens, mostly whoever arrives last wants total domination and just wipes out the competition, by killing off all the babies it can find. Sorry for the dampener, but I've seen this happen so many times all over the place, good luck!


I'd agree with Natrix on this one; although newts will eat spawn, and prbably tadpoles as well, there's just no way frogs and toads will eat each others' spawn. Ponds in which toads spawn will almost invariably be suitable for frogs as well, although it may be the case that a pond suitable for frogs such as a shallower, more ephemeral pond, will not support toads.

Is there competition between frog and toad tadpoles? It's an interesting question but given that an individual pond will often support both species over a long period of time, if there is competition then it is not enough to 'wipe out' one species or the other. Besides, I beleive that tadpoles of the two species will occupy different ecological niches within a pond.

Just a small point, but you wouldn't say GCNs are 'rare' in Britain; they are locally common, albeit with a restricted range. The strict protection they receive in UK and EU law stems from evidence of population decline throughout the species' range as a whole.


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm no expert on the matter, perhaps you guys are, I'm just sharing the experiences I have had in both the South and North of England, in both my own and in study ponds when I was helping do environmental checks, we found on numerous occasions that the late arrivers were doing as I said, maybe these were isolated cases, but issue arose in many areas. Sorry if you deem it tripe, really was just sharing what we found back then.....


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

Since seeing your replies, I googled around, I was really interested to see if any one else had similar issues and found nothing.... It was years ago when I was a student in enviromental sciences that we did the studies, we collected data on lots of different sites for a massive project, mainly it was to see how use of chemicals effects pond growth and species types, basically the overall biomes wellbeing, we looked at data collected by others over the years and collected our own, the teachers gave us previous conclusions and we had to make our own, this is where the info about frogs and toads not co-habiting (and the whole spawn eating thing!) came up, I never saw it directly, it's one of those things you're told when you were younger that just sticks, all these years I've been thinking that they don't tolerate each other and will predate each others spawn and find I am wrong, well I love to learn new things so this is an eye opener, sucks being wrong for so long though :whip: 
being told I spouted 'tripe' was a little harsh though, just saying 'I don't agree' is a more polite way to address, seems a lot of people on here just want to start arguments, I'm on here to learn, ask Jools and many others here who have been on the receiving end of all my questions, doesn't cost anything to use ones manners, or employ a little tact! 
If I'm wrong then please do tell me, nothing worse than being misinformed and making asumptions based on it, I mean I have never had the pleasure of having any ponds with several species in, it has been either frogs or toads never both, even with very varied pond enviroments and have never ever had newts, on that note I wasn't saying newts are rare, just that they seemed less abundant than frogs and toads, again a fact that I grew up with, that I am happy to remedy if wrong, maybe I just haven't had the pleasure, which is a real shame as I think them wonderful little creatures, thus I just asumed that long ago infomation was true and was the reasoning.
Sorry Jools to have started a debate on your thread, really wasn't my intention, was just trying to help.... what a failure that turned out to be, 
I think perhaps I will just keep my mouth shut from now on, as I'm obviously not knowledgeable enough to be a helpful contributor in these matters and don't want to risk making myself look ever more the fool :blush:.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

The frogs and newts have co-existed for several years now. The frogs have spawned in the shallow boggy part of the pool - as they do. The newts tend to use the mid part which has a lot of pond weed. The toads have spawned at the deeper end of the pool where the frog tadpoles do not go. The biggest danger to them all IMHO are the perishing fish (golden orfe) which also breed in there. There must be something in the water round here to cause all this breeding - I've got 6 kids myself as well lol. The last 2 nights we have been visited by a pair of Mallards which I'm afraid I have shooed off cause these would probably decimate the lot.
PS Loonymoony - please don't stop posting. I am sure what you have said is not "total tripe". It probably depends on the size, location and layout of the pool.


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## gw5458 (Jan 3, 2010)

jools said:


> The last 2 nights we have been visited by a pair of Mallards which I'm afraid I have shooed off cause these would probably decimate the lot.


Ducks are very good at hoovering the wildlife out of small ponds. Three years ago a trio of mine got loose and found my little 6'x3' wildlife pond. In April when it was teeming with tadpoles. l discovered them a few hours later. Once the mud had settled there were only a dozen or so visible. In a bigger 8m pond they are less likely to clear the lot but they will have a damn good try.


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks Jools, you always know just what to say and how to say it:notworthy:,
We really appreciate all the help and support you have offered us xxx
and goodluck with the pond inhabitants, wish we got soooo many visitors in our ponds......maybe it is in your water..... send us a bucket please hee! hee! worth noting we only have the two kids too, so I think you're really on to something there:lol2:


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