# Something i have noticed.....



## nicoleparish (Jun 14, 2007)

....since i have owned and run a shop.

Alot of people i deal with seem to have (in my opinion) a bit of a dissapointing outlook on the hobby.
I deal with many people who buy for the sake of it, who end up bringing that animal back to me and wanting to exchange and swap it just because they are bored of it.
Obviously, i vet each and every customer who walks out of my door with animals. I have turned down a fair amount of customers because i honestly saw the animal they wished to purchase ending up on my doorstep in a few months time.
But yet, i still get buyers who will come in a month or two later after having bought an animal, and wanting trades or money back just because it's boring, or because their mate's mate's grandma's niece bought something and they think it's way cooler.

I understand there are alot of breeders out there, and alot of people who collect certain species.
It's just a shame that reptiles STILL aren't exactly seen as 'pets' yet in everybodys eyes.
More like something you can have for a little bit then discard, form no attatchment to and forget about, just move on to something else.

For example, i have a customer who, for their own reasons, has bought numerous ball pythons, a decent sized tegu, and countless other things only to keep on bringing them back to me wishing to do deals and swap stuff over, because he genuinely is 'bored' of the animal.
Needless to say, i have stoppped selling this person whatever they just feel like grabbing for the sake of grabbing.

People don't do this kind of thing with dogs or cats, so why is it more acceptable with reptiles?

Obviously, no offence was meant with this post, it's just mearly an observation i have made that is quite disheartening.

Your thoughts?


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

I agree. There are alot of people who see them as something to have and easily be discarded when they get bored. But alot of people also see the money that COULD be involved in breeding reptiles.

Granted i have a few reptiles. But i handle each of them (except for the stenos) and give them all the care they deserve. Some people don't.


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## matty (Feb 17, 2007)

I agree with you.

However, I don't think you can form an emotional bond with a reptile tbh, they just don't think like that. So maybe it's OK to sell/swap reptiles as long as they're getting the correct care in their new home. As they wouldn't be too fussed whether it was one persons home or another.

But, I don't think it's these kind of people your referring too, so I'll shh now lol


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## PRS (Dec 31, 2007)

I think that dogs and cats are more pets than reptiles in some peoples eyes but at the end of the day they are both animals and people shouldnt buy out of impulse they shud learn about it think it over and make a commitment to keep it. Not to just bring it back when they get bored or think its hard work etc.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

I think its part of the hobby thats always been there, our local shop will buy back at a fraction of the price it sells at, whether you see that as a good or bad thing........

Im guilty of it myself, not through boredom, but through changes with breeding plans


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## blink (Sep 3, 2007)

I agree with the OP. When I got my first corn I started looking more into forums and the internet etc. and was amazed that people were like this. My reptiles are my pets. I have as much of an emotional bond with them as I ever had with my cats and definately more than my evil hamster.
It also confuses me why people have a reptile 'collection', if I had loads of cats I wouldn't call it a cat collection. It kind of reduces them to the kind of same as antiques IMO, something valuable to have for the sake of it. I know that people make a living from breeding their reps etc. but people do that with dogs too and I'm sure they name their dogs and treat them as part of the family. Why isn't this the case for reptiles?
I'm not having a dig at anyone, I'm just curious. How do you not get emotionally attached to your pets? How can anyone get 'bored' of their pet? Maybe I'm just a soppy over emotional girl..........


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## nicoleparish (Jun 14, 2007)

i think that changes in breeding projects is fair enough, because you'd obviously set out to buy those animals for that specific purpose.

It's people that buy for the sake of buying it.

I have a few animals in my shop right now that i call boomerang, because they have been back and forth from a few differant homes, through no fault of their own but because the people just got bored.

Obviously you don't get the same affection back from say, a ball python than you do a cat or dog, but that animal (regardless of what it is) is still under your care and in my opinion should be treated with the same respect, not like a collectable toy which is easy to trade away.


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

I agree too. Admittedly we passed on our sthenos because someone else wanted some and we had no plans on breeding them. I almost sold 2 of m leopard geckos to clear some space for a dofferent breeding project but couldnt in the end because I love them too much. My reps are just as much a part of the family as our dogs. OK.. they dont give you unfaultering affection in return like a dog but they all have their own funny little quirks that can make you laugh or frustrate you.

All my geckos have names, as do my snakes and so i feel they are family.


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## casper1963 (Dec 10, 2007)

well i treat mine as pets there treated exactly the same as our cats and we believe they like it if my snakes see me they come straight up to the glass and if i open the door there straight out onto my hand i spend quality time with my snakes and i feel they feel the same may sound daft to sum of you but thats how it is :whistling2: so basicly i agree with the original post all animals should be treated alike


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## jamie-c (Nov 16, 2007)

i agree........ a reptile is for life not just for xmas


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## gecko-kus (Aug 15, 2007)

all our reptiles even our breeding stock is seen as our pets... but many people see them as money makers and not for the pleasure in keeping them. (but i do understand getting and swooping animals for breeding purposes).
Having worked in a reptile shop i know exactly what you mean and i think i know the guy you are talking of as we lived in kent. He has done this to many shops buying things then bringing them back a few months later, there is no point in dealing with him what so ever so good on you for not selling to him any more.
Plus alot of people in kent want reps for the wow factor with their friends.. look at me i have a big snake or i have a nasty monitor just to show off with no intension of looking after them properly!!!
I hate the fact that this wonderful hobby is subjected to people like that, who give it a bad name.


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

They are the type of people who should not be allowed to keep any animal of any kind.Thing is many people get cats and dogs and they get thrown out of a moving car or left outside for someone to find to bring into RSPCA. The reptiles get the same thing these days with people as you say getting bored and treating them like the snakes are trading cards or stamps. If you want a hobby to trade then get exactly that, cards and stamps or even coins. Animals whatever they are are and still should be seen as pets not merely items.


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

captaincaveman said:


> I think its part of the hobby thats always been there, our local shop will buy back at a fraction of the price it sells at, whether you see that as a good or bad thing........
> 
> Im guilty of it myself, not through boredom, but through changes with breeding plans


Breeding plans is slightly different and more forgiving if someone breeds dozens of snakes and there is a change in breeding such as a snake that was thought to have been a given sex but turns out to be the opposite and im sure that has happened to everybody at some stage.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Sadly this is the market we live in isn't it?

I can not speak of the reptile market, so will not attempt to.

But the mammal market has a percentage of keepers that never seem to be settled on what it is that they actually want from a species.

If in doubt, forget it.

There are so many exotic species out there at present.

I know many keepers that know what they want, have waited for it - sometimes years and are thrilled when eventually they get it.

I know others, who are so keyed up about this and that and then suddenly they are available again.

It sadly is the way of the market, animals to some are disposable, l don't mean to the point of 'death' but people do not seem to be emotionally attached anymore.

They forget that animals are not just a commodity to be thrown away because of boredom or the can not be arsed anymore attitude.

They are a living breathing species that require more respect and certainly responsible ownership.

My two penneth worth anyway.

R


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

I love all mine and am definately attached to them. I think of them as pets rather than a hobby. We bought a young boa off a friend when they stopped keeping. We did it to help them out and looked into selling it on. I couldn't do it though, I'd taken her on and can give her a good home. I'd only have worried about her if I'd have sold her!

Jo


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## the-reptile-mafia (Jan 4, 2008)

I have bought a fire salamander and the adult male beardie from your shop and i have no intention of bringing them back


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

there are some in our 'collection' that i couldn't sell. 

like the leopard geckos.. i'm far too attached to them. since i decided i couldn't sell them, i've had a couple of offers on them, but i declined both times. they are the two i started with.. and they both have personalities that show through, and i definately see them as pets. 

the same with my rainbow boa.. his bday is the same day as mine.. he has a lovely temperament, and is lovely to look at..
but because he is a cross (brb x crb) we are not going to breed him..
yet i will never sell him, as i am far too attached to him! 

a lot of our reptiles are pets. the majority have names, and they all have personalities. 

i do understand when people's plans change. it used to upset me when i sold things we had started out with, and grown on since they were tiny, and they were sold on again straight away. but unfortunately, i know it's all part of the hobby. 

this is why i have changed my mind on a couple of things i had for sale. i've sold things we have no breeding plans for, and regretted it. so i think carefully now! 

sami


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

One thing with reptiles though is that they live so long. You can't think "OK, I can guarantee that for the next 20 years I can house and care for this snake" because things change, they live for such a long time that you can never be sure.
We had someone come into the shop with a 14 year old Russain Ratsnake that he wanted to rehome - he was very worried that I would think he was a bad owner for giving her up, but his situation had just changed so much (kids etc) that he no longer had enough time for her. I didn't think less of him for it - probably more because he had the ability to know when enough was enough and be responsible about rehoming her and not letting her suffer less care than she was used to.

Things do arise over such a huge period of time, breeding plans change, there are plenty of legit reasons why you might give up or sell reptiles - getting bored is not a good one though!
I just hope that people who get bored of them make sure they get a home rather than neglect them and learn thier lesson and don't get another one! (ok, I know I'm living in a dream land there!)


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I know a few regular "serial" reptile keepers, the kind that buy a lot and sell a lot, back in 2 weeks trading in the latest craze and then a few weeks later that goes too... these people must lose a fortune and it just makes no sense to me. The grass is always greener, perhaps.. some people just aren't satisfied with what they've got, and will always be searching for that perfect reptile that interests them so much that they will hold onto it for it's life... and I really hope that most people find that.


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

To be honest, it's like anything. Sad yes, but it's like some people with cars. they get bored within a couple months, and want something new.

With any possessions. It's sad that people treat animals like that, well not really seeing reptiles as animals, like we do. But yeah. There are some members on the forum who soon get bored of the reptiles they have, sell them, then get something new not long later.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

it's this morph thing that degrades them into collectibles...........get a classic, real animal and you can have a tiny bit of that place..... study herps, not coin collecting....looking for the unusual...isn't mother nature good enough? a CORN ISN'T A CORN ONCE YOU CAN'T FIND ONE BUT FROM A BREEDER..... real animals is what i say...a suriname boa constrictor is about the best thing...i can't think that mother nature is second best to an englishman...or american...


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

HABU said:


> it's this morph thing that degrades them into collectibles...........get a classic, real animal and you can have a tiny bit of that place..... study herps, not coin collecting....looking for the unusual...isn't mother nature good enough? a CORN ISN'T A CORN ONCE YOU CAN'T FIND ONE BUT FROM A BREEDER..... real animals is what i say...a suriname boa constrictor is about the best thing...i can't think that mother nature is second best to an englishman...or american...


well maybe not to an american, but a brit thats a possibility:whistling2::lol2:


To be honest i think we all keep for different reasons, i was never a morph fan years ago, but its my main interest now, i too have certain animals that i'd never sell, even though they are for breeding


I mean look at the classifieds on every reptile forum, its one of the busy areas and not everythings hatchlings


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

ITs not just shops though eh? There seems to have been quite a few cases on here recently were certain snakes seem to be on some serpent merry-go-round


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Darwengrey, i thought u was leaveing, well you was at 1am LMFAO.......

As for the thread, i have bought animals that genuinly were not for me, after research and time, giving them everything they need etc i just was totally dis-interested. So i found them new owners who would care for them better than i would because with me they were getting food, and water, in a decent setup etc, but they were missing out on human interaction because i genuinly was not interested in the species, AFTER i had bought them. I expected them to be somthing they were not i guess. 

And there are others that i had bought and never looked back. 

Now i have worked with these species, and in a shop setting, and as a trader i know what is for me and what isnt. So i wont go out and buy a australian water dragon for instance, because i wasnt that impressed by CWD's. 

BUT i would however buy any Varanid for instance because i have worked with 6/7 species and all were genuinly amazing. 

Just a differnt take on the situation. I'm sure we have all bought animals that were made out to be somthing they are not, etc. 

Dan


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Trice said:


> To be honest, it's like anything. Sad yes, but it's like some people with cars. they get bored within a couple months, and want something new.
> 
> With any possessions. It's sad that people treat animals like that, well not really seeing reptiles as animals, like we do. But yeah. There are some members on the forum who soon get bored of the reptiles they have, sell them, then get something new not long later.


I remember watching a couple of groups of small lizards on the classifieds.

I'm pretty sure one group managed 3-4 new owners, all on here, in the space of about 6-8 weeks.

Mason


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I remember watching a couple of groups of small lizards on the classifieds.
> 
> I'm pretty sure one group managed 3-4 new owners, all on here, in the space of about 6-8 weeks.
> 
> Mason


Sad isnt it. For an animal to have to be moved one place to another, constantly new homes rather than settling into one place.


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

nicoleparish said:


> Your thoughts?


Well, it's pretty simple to realise that more and more humanity is going downhill. It's all wrong and getting worse by the year. Violence, corrupt politicians taxing us out of existence, polution, children being put in the world by irresponsible pillocks that will give them no education and in a few years they will be turning decent people's lives into hell, poverty, selfishness, wars, people being brainwashed by stupid religious leaders, etc.

What would you make you think that when it gets to the reptile industry, everyone would be nice, caring and perfect ?

Everyday a twat dies and other 5 are born, that's the reality.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I have a different view from the rest of you :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Let's be honest here, what does it actually matter?

Reptiles don't know or care who it is that is feeding them etc etc. It is only us forcing these emotions on to them.

If the animals in question were aware of who was outside the viv they live in and had any kind of bond with them (that originated from the animal and not the owner) then yes i could understand. Reality is though that these animals don't have any bond with us.

So the animal isn't suffering, the keeper is learning more and not becoming bored so where is the problem?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. In reality I said similar things many times, so did others.

We do tend to think that the animals think like us, to the point that we think sometimes they chat with their fellow reptile friends, or they love things, etc.

We say things like: 'my snake loves his bark, or love his water bowl ...' when in fact they don't. They will hide where they find it cozy and right temperature, they will drink water no matter the colour or shape of the bowl, etc.

But I still stand by my comment about the pillocks of this world, being reptile keepers or not, there are more and more scum around :crazy:

In the reptile world, most of the scum come in a form of time wasters, those who are cruel or don't provide their animals with proper care, scammers, etc.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I don't think its a case of the animals bonding with the owners, its more the owners bonding with the animals!!: victory:

I agree though, if you look at the classifieds it5s quite often always the same people selling for space etc. yet a week later they buy another one!!:whip:

I buy all my reps (all 2 of them) with the intention of still owning them when they pass away of old age!!

I will never sell either of the 2 i've got now!!: victory:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I could be forced to sell animals in an emergency, but I agree with you, the animals I buy are generaly for life.

Also, there are animals I buy that grow on me more than others, and then regardless of being a common snake or an expensive morph, they might become priceless for me.

For instance I have a ball python that has been with me since she was a baby, and she's now 4 yo. I don't have any intentions of breeding her, but I'll probably never sell her, unless something serious in my life takes place (a move overseas for instance).

So, the 13 snakes I have at the moment are not for sale, and I'll looking for a few more to complete the collection :crazy:


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## MSL (Jul 30, 2007)

I got into reptiles through accident when I inherited a beardy from a nephew who got bored after having him for 3 months, when I started going to reptile shops I found snakes and realised that is what I really like...I only have 3 boas and the rough greens but I would never sell them....I did sell the beardies, i didn't wantto but I had to make more room as the OH does not like the snakes and we had to compromise........as the snakes are what I have a real passion for the beardies had to go ...but I know they went to a good, hopefully forever home.
The snakes are not just a hobby, they are my pets and as such they get treated the same as the dogs and cat, although they don't go for walks obviously:lol2:


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