# PKL Update 2008



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Its been very quiet for the last few weeks, but a lot has been happening behind the scenes.

COP's in various drafts are set to be presented to various consultation groups.

As to a pre-set timetable of events, well we have not seen one to date.

There is always the usual run of the mill rumours and speculations travelling around, and that is no different here in early February.

What l have found out to be annoying, frustrating and down right ridiculous of late, is the sheer volume of problems that could downfall this industry as a whole, bot from the outsider opposition as we would all like to see, but more problems from within our own house.

It would be nice to feel that keepers from all sectors could be seen to start asking questions along the lines of 'where are the COP's?'

Pro Keepers Lobby - IS not as many people seemingly think disappearing.

What is happening however, is that we are in the process of creating a totally new website, which will incorporate three main websites into one.

TSKA-Rainbow Market Management [Predominately Sales], TSKA Care Guides [Reference], Pro Keepers Lobby [Political Legislation]. As said all three will be rolled into one website to allow all keepers a much easier navigation experience.

Also, whilst it is still known as PKL - we will in fact be highlighting Pro Keepers' Alliance running under the PKL banner.

Presently l am sifting through various COP's, and l genuinely pray that they do come to fruition - especially the Primate Codes, for l do feel these are very much needed in the United Kingdom.

Will keep you updated.

Regards Rory

PKL: PKA


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

So you are merging the PKL or PKA with your business website? So everyone who wants to join the PKL will have to go via your business website? Very shrewd!: victory:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Yes, l am, but also for good reason.

I decided some time ago to not make a charge to the individual keeper for a PKA membership. 

In light of all that has passed l find myself unable to.

PKA will be concentrating on all that affects the individual keeper: animals rights, keepers rights, responsibity of keeping and husbandry, legislation.

The only way to achieve that is driving that traffic through the website that keepers actually visit for one reason or another. This way we can keep keepers informed of all that is afoot.

R


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Good-o!
Shout if I can do anything.


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi Rory, couple of questions. When are these COP likely to be put into place, are they going to be species specific in the case of reptiles (if so where do I find an outline of the Boid, Leo and Dragon COP.) Also totally off topic but what do you think about the American proposel to ban transportation of Herps. I'm personally torn between thinking its a PR stunt for an election year that won't get passed the public consultation stage and and unease on how easily this could potentially be bullied through with the right media attention.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Issa said:


> Hi Rory, couple of questions. When are these COP likely to be put into place, are they going to be species specific in the case of reptiles (if so where do I find an outline of the Boid, Leo and Dragon COP.) Also totally off topic but what do you think about the American proposel to ban transportation of Herps. I'm personally torn between thinking its a PR stunt for an election year that won't get passed the public consultation stage and and unease on how easily this could potentially be bullied through with the right media attention.


Hi Issa, 

Extremely good question.

Are they going to be species specific?

Again, excellent question.

Answer.

Unsure, there is much too much argument at present as to what template structure is actually going to be used to define the cop's for reptiles.

I am aware of a template example currently under study.

As to how species specific they are likely to be, this is again a question of debate.

There is talk from one quarter that it may be a very generalised cop, whilst other quarters would like to see them species specific, personally however l feel that whilst not 100% species specific there should be some very clear species distinctions placed upon them.

As to your second question, let me acquaint my research with what our American colleagues are discussing and then l can answer in how that may affect us here.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

This is what you are refering to , yes?

Feds Move To Ban Pythons & Boas - PetHobbyist.com Site Blog


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

yep thats the one.


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

It would make sense for them to be species specific. There are far too many variables between individual species requirements to even try and cover them all under a 1 general catagory. I see the intent of these COP is to set a standard of keeping expected, go above and beyond that standard all well and good, fall below it and thats where problems follow as it will clear what is expected in black and white with very little wriggle room or grey areas. For this to work, pretty much each individual species currently held in captivity needs its own cop. It would be like saying a Rat and Skunk (to use 2 examples that I'm sure your familiar with) required the same type of care simply because they were both mammals.


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

Rory, sorry if ive missed it completly, you may have told me already, but when are we the general public likely to see these COP's for ourselves, however developed they are?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Jack, 

You have not missed anything, at this present time, no one knows when the cop's are likely to be presented properly towards the general public domain and more to the point if at all!!!

Yes, l do emphasize the last part of the sentence, there is talk that the only cop's likely to be made available are those from the RSPCA, and at present our ' passionate and caring political side' do not still seem to have their fingers out of the clouds above.

Issa, 

As said, l agree there should be certain distinctions between the reptile cop's, l can not make those distinctions clearly for what l know about reptiles you can place on the back of a postage stamp, but to display what l mean:

Yes: a skunk and a rat would have two seperate cop's for them, for each species is different, however:

A cop for rodentia - rats - would also be ideal for other rodents of that family line, but not the same as for Jerboas, again another rodent.

And a cop for mephitidae - skunk - would be or should be in its own distinct class. Although some say that the Ferret cop should be the same.

I hope this makes sense Issa, as said, l can not make the distinctions between the reptile families suitably enough, but to say that the cop for a Leopard Gecko would be the same as for a Royal Python, would in my eyes be wrong. 

R


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

By the sounds of it we are in perfect agreement on this.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Issa said:


> Hi Rory, couple of questions. When are these COP likely to be put into place, are they going to be species specific in the case of reptiles (if so where do I find an outline of the Boid, Leo and Dragon COP.) Also totally off topic but what do you think about the American proposel to ban transportation of Herps. I'm personally torn between thinking its a PR stunt for an election year that won't get passed the public consultation stage and and unease on how easily this could potentially be bullied through with the right media attention.


Hi Issa, 

Having done some initial digging on this subject.

Yes it is quite plausable that something akin to your question about our American colleagues and their transportation problem, could occur here.

The mere fact that a few of the 'power' players in the political world whom are savvy to direct intel on this subject are concerned, could easily indicate that such a movement could go through.

Should this actually occur, then as said, it is quite likely that opposition here in UK could see this as a ripe opportunity to see if they too could dredge up support to seeing that very same movement actioned here.

Hope that helps [or not]

R


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

hmmmm that does little to put my mind at rest. As I've said before (probably on a thread similiar to this one actually) I honestly believe that the Antis are taking a longer view on this campaign than the short term effects. Even some of the new COP (which I actually wholeheartedly agree with in theory) could potentially be used to severly limit the reptile community as a whole, eg what would a impossibly tight rodent COP do to the feeder industry that provides us with snake food? How many people would potentially pay petshop live prices for feeders if the large feeder breeders were forced to close?

Even better, if you want to start getting into "what-ifs" , An accident involving injury or fatality could, with the right media spin (bless the page 3 tabloids) do probably the same to the Herping Hobby as the dunblane massacre did to the sport of pistol target shooting. Given the amount of reptiles currently within the UK, I see the last point as more of a when not an if unfortunately.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Issa said:


> hmmmm that does little to put my mind at rest. As I've said before (probably on a thread similiar to this one actually) I honestly believe that the Antis are taking a longer view on this campaign than the short term effects.
> 
> Even some of the new COP (which I actually wholeheartedly agree with in theory) could potentially be used to severly limit the reptile community as a whole,
> 
> ...


 
Hi Issa, 

Lot of questions.

Could some of the future cop's pose a severe restriction to the future of reptile keeping?

Of course they could, hence why the need to ensure that we have pro keeping written cops in action rather than be totally reliant upon those written by the opposition.

If more keepers were to take on board the action of future forecasting and take a look out of the box, then more would see the potential dangers of the badly written cop.

A tight rodent cop, could very well very seriously damage the future of reptile keeping. There was and is still discussions being held about plans for the listing of certain culture foods as 'pets'. There has always been talks about the use of mouse and rat pinkies with the reptile market. 

How many people/keepers would pay pet shop prices on deadstock?

Well if you have no choice available, then quite a few to begin with .......... but only as a starting point. Pet shop prices at times are staggering, l have seen the recent prices of gerbils alone, and it makes my heart stop! People would either start to harvest their own, or they would begin to reduce their collection. New legislations and cop's will make it harder to comply with breeding their own supply so then we would start to see the reductions of collections.

Media hype out to get you!?

Come on, from your writing style alone, one can see that you know the media hype will jump on board any story that will sell the rag in the first place .... will not be long, before we start to see more media hype do their damage - hell there are enough 'incidences' in the industry any way to start the ball rolling.

R


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