# What do you want from a reptile shop



## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

Can you tell me what you want from your Reptile shop


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## Magpye (Jan 26, 2007)

I've only visited a handful of pet shops, and I would say that the biggest problem for me is when they have a large selection of reptiles in a relatively small space - ie the vivs are too small and too barren - which gives portrays the wrong idea to the novice.

A much smaller selection in much bigger, better planted vivs, would better demonstrate the level of care and time the animals require. It could be made clear that specific animals can be obtained on request. All animals sold should be done so with a comprehensive caresheet.

Oh, and livefood that hasn't been starved for a week.


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

A clean, well knowledable place where the reptiles are cared for and not overly priced.

Think that sums it up - ohh and where the wood doesn't cost a fortune :whistling2:


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## Storm Python (Jan 10, 2008)

*FREEBIES.:lol2:*
*Only joking. *
*Basically all i look for in a reptile shop is a decent friendly knowledgeable service.*
*And that I'm buying quality healthy animals*


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## Storm Python (Jan 10, 2008)

stephenie191 said:


> the wood doesn't cost a fortune :whistling2:


*Why is that it's WOOD for f##ks sake.:lol2:*


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## west-coast-reptiles (Mar 2, 2008)

check our site below,


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## joe0709 (Sep 22, 2007)

if our i got to choose how my local tiy rep shop improved it would be for them to have more choice and a larger space. also id like them to pay more attention as you can tell them stuff seconds before and they forget seocnds later. couple more things lol id like them to care for each animal as well as they can and not keep hatchling beardies on sand and last but not least...............let me work their lol that way i can change all the stuff arounf and make sure the animals are cared for correctly


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Here's what would make the "perfect" shop for me:

1. Adult specimens of the most common species on display but these adults are not for sale; this is to show what the cute little babies and yearlings will grow into. These adult specimens' vivs should be labelled with the correct species name, the average adult size, the diet and some basics about keeping them. The vivarium should be appropriately sized for the animal displayed in it. I would say that at a minimum every shop should have a shop pet cornsnake, leopard gecko trio or quad, bearded dragon trio and a "big snake". The point of the last is to show how big 12-feet-plus actually IS. Ideally all animals should be on the large end of the size scale and ideally calm specimens that someone could handle (part of) in order to get a feel for whether they could cope with an adult of their chosen species. If a shop pet is of a species that is generally aggressive... TELL people this!

1b. All adult specimens should be housed in vivariums that provide the best, safest enclosure for the animal. If it's best to keep a 15-foot burm on newspaper, show it being kept on newspaper and explain WHY. 

2. All animals to be clearly labelled with scientific binomial and the most popular of the common names. For example, _Python_ _regius_ should be labelled as "_Python_ _regius_: Royal / Ball Python". All animals should have a caresheet available (even if it is a generalised one - "North American Rat and King snakes" or "Arboreal Boids" for example) on request.

3. Feeding records available if requested. What it's feeding on and the method of feeding required. 

4. Thermostats sold as package deals with heating equipment, no customer *ever* advised they don't need a thermostat with their chosen equipment unless that equipment cannot function at all with a thermostat (AKA: UVB/Active Heat bulbs)

5. Staff that will admit they don't know the answer to a question instead of blagging it. Look, I'm not going to judge you if you need to crack open a book to answer me - I'd rather have an honest don't-know than a dishonest "Yeah, blahblah." 

6. Clearly marked origins of animals that are not captive bred - if it's WC please tell me. If it's captive farmed, I would like to know that.

At this time there aren't MANY shops that meet all of these for me (mainly on point 1 - where I want to see adult specimens so people can't say they didn't know how big they got) - but there are shops that come darn close.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

All of the above plus basic honesty, if you don't know something then say so and please don't try and blag it. No-one knows everything unfortunately.


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

This is my mates shop Reddish Reptiles

Not the biggest place in the world,but he has a very good selection of reps inc, albino boas,pastels royals,various cham species to name a few.

Clean and tidy with very knowledgable people.

John


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## Fill (Nov 24, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> Here's what would make the "perfect" shop for me:
> 
> 1. Adult specimens of the most common species on display but these adults are not for sale; this is to show what the cute little babies and yearlings will grow into. These adult specimens' vivs should be labelled with the correct species name, the average adult size, the diet and some basics about keeping them. The vivarium should be appropriately sized for the animal displayed in it. I would say that at a minimum every shop should have a shop pet cornsnake, leopard gecko trio or quad, bearded dragon trio and a "big snake". The point of the last is to show how big 12-feet-plus actually IS. Ideally all animals should be on the large end of the size scale and ideally calm specimens that someone could handle (part of) in order to get a feel for whether they could cope with an adult of their chosen species. If a shop pet is of a species that is generally aggressive... TELL people this!
> 
> ...


Nice post :no1:


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi
Adult display animals are a very good idea.
I like the idea of the heating equipment sold as a package too - i had to go all over the place for heater stat guard cable etc......
And yes, viv decor is sooo expensive, always see stuff i like but see the price and walk away....!!
And just as important - friendly staff! Been in some places and they almost act like your an inconvenience, generally miserable sods... i'd be well happy if i worked in a rep shop!


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## discodazz (Apr 7, 2007)

there is no such thing as a perfect reptile shop because everyone wants something different. if every reptile shop housed adult specimens just for display then there would be no space left to house the animals for sale, turning it into a zoo. im sure every shop owner would love more space, but this costs money which would have to be made up elsewhere eg price increases.
large naturalistic vivs for each species would take up a lot of time and space, reducing stock variety. shop vivs should be basic, stress free environments that are simple to maintain. remember these are not meant to be permanent homes for the reptiles. the idea of a shop is to create turnover, any items that arent selling arent making money. its the same for any kind of shop. i know it sounds heartless but it is a business not a personal collection..
all i want from a shop is:
1. that they all start using scientific names instead of common names so that potential customers can research things before they buy. im sure most of us have seen something they fancied in a shop with only a made up common name that they cant find any info on.
2. that they are kept clean and tidy
3, that the staff are approachable and helpful.
i dont own or work in a shop but sometimes you have to look at it from their point of view


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

discodazz said:


> there is no such thing as a perfect reptile shop because everyone wants something different. if every reptile shop housed adult specimens just for display then there would be no space left to house the animals for sale, turning it into a zoo.


That's why I suggested four specific animals - corn (or corn-sized snake - a king, Eurasian rat or similar would work), leopard gecko, beardie, big snake. To reduce the number of animals who are rehomed later because impulse buyers who pick something relatively cheap, attractive and readily available aren't getting what they expected.



> large naturalistic vivs for each species would take up a lot of time and space, reducing stock variety. shop vivs should be basic, stress free environments that are simple to maintain. remember these are not meant to be permanent homes for the reptiles.


We'll have to disagree on this one. I've seen enough people who think that the way the shop keeps them is the way they should be kept. A nice stress-free environment that is easy to clean should also represent how the animal SHOULD be kept for its best health and welfare.

They're selling living things, not kitchen appliances.

A blender doesn't care whether it's on a clean counter with no crowding or stuffed in a drawer. A leopard gecko will SUFFER and DIE if it is kept improperly. And although it is the buyer's responsibility to research, I believe it is the seller's responsibility to set a good example.


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## discodazz (Apr 7, 2007)

i didnt mean for this to sound like i was havin a go. im just saying that you cant run a successful shop the same way as you keep your own private collection. 
everyone, including me, would like to see a reptile shop that was full of display tanks that perfectly replicate the animals natural habitat. but that isnt practical in a typical shop. you would soon get fed up of waiting to get served when the owner is still trying to find the occupant of a tank for the previous customer. im not saying cram as many animals into a tank as possible but there has to be a happy medium.
out of curiosity what are your thoughts on people keeping geckos or snakes in racks with newspaper as a substrate?


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## Kimmy173 (Aug 2, 2007)

I actually think Ssthisto has a good point. Beardies, leos, and cornsnakes are the "beginner" reptiles and complete novices would have a better chance seeing these in a good environment if they were in a shop. If I had entered the herp world in a different way than I did then I don't think I'd know anything about them and I certainly don't know anyone who has reptiles of any kind. If I'd gone into a shop and saw the starter animals in set-ups they require I'd have had a better idea of what they need, etc. It doesn't take up much space for those three species and a fourth if you add the larger snake. The rest of the room can then be used for "selling" reps and equipment. A very good idea indeed in my opinion.

A perfect shop? hmm. 

Cheap livefood. My local shop costs £2.00 for anything, a tub of crickets, hoppers, waxworms, mealworms. I think that's fair because you get a good amount in each tub and I don't like the idea of hoppers costing more since I use them lol

The display animals as mentioned above.

Staff who are well-informed and judgemental in the way of who they sell to. Yes, I understand it's a business, but it's also an animal welfare business and if you sell knowingly to someone who is a bad owner or getting into it for the wrong reasons, then make up some excuse and don't sell to them. Or make them prove it to you by coming back next week with the appropriate knowledge. Even if it's just a couple of questions you ask before you sell the animal to them like temperatures, substrates etc. 

The equipment not to cost a fortune. Again I'm lucky in my local shop because a decent heatmat is only £15 whereas some shops go up to £50 for the same make/model/brand. Price means everything and you lose nothing by keeping it cheap. The cheaper it is, the more people will know and will come back. I buy all my heatmats, equipment, ... everything from this shop because it is so cheap and friendly. 

So I think all I want in a perfect shop is cheap products, animal welfare constantly in mind and good staff.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

discodazz said:


> i didnt mean for this to sound like i was havin a go. im just saying that you cant run a successful shop the same way as you keep your own private collection.
> everyone, including me, would like to see a reptile shop that was full of display tanks that perfectly replicate the animals natural habitat. but that isnt practical in a typical shop. you would soon get fed up of waiting to get served when the owner is still trying to find the occupant of a tank for the previous customer. im not saying cram as many animals into a tank as possible but there has to be a happy medium.
> out of curiosity what are your thoughts on people keeping geckos or snakes in racks with newspaper as a substrate?


Actually, I never said "naturalistic vivarium" - I said "best, safest enclosure for the animal". Display vivaria are gorgeous (I have a crestie in one in my living room) ... but they are not necessarily the best or the safest way to keep every animal. I specifically mentioned "If it's best to keep a fourteen-foot burm on newspaper, do exactly that and explain why." I am sick and tired of seeing black-bellied skinny leopard geckos housed on woodchip that they are VERY clearly swallowing, covered in stuck shed because they don't have a humid hide and stressed to the eyeballs because they don't have any other hides either.

If I were setting up a shop with those particular shop pets, my enclosures would be:

1. Adult male cornsnake in 36X18X24high vivarium, hemp substrate, housed singly, with climbing branches, hiding opportunities, maybe semi-naturalistic, using a standard lightbulb for heating and displaying the dimmer stat AND a bulb guard.
2. Leopard geckos in a tub setup, using carpet tiles or stone tiles for flooring, heat cable underneath on a pulse proportional thermostat, with plastic humid hide, other hides provided for one hide per animal plus two spares. 
3. Bearded dragons in a display vivarium with UVB lighting, heat from a light bulb set overhead on a visible dimmer stat with a bulb guard, plenty of opportunities for active movement.
4. Large snake - maybe a dwarf retic or a large boa - in a vivarium of appropriate size for HANDLER safety, with easily cleaned substrate (probably newsprint!) and with handling equipment kept within reach; heated using ceramics on pulse proportional thermostats.

My thoughts on keeping reptiles in rack systems with newspaper? I do it myself. For some of my animals that's the best, safest substrate to keep them on, and is vastly preferable to particulates they can swallow. I have other animals in vivariums with newspaper. I have yet other animals in vivariums with hemp or flax substrate or eco-earth - it's what suits those individuals and what makes a happy medium between aesthetics and hygiene/safety. 

My theoretical "corn snake" display as mentioned above? Below that thirty-six inch vivarium with the shop pet would be a (locked, glass-fronted) rack with three tiers of tubs. Subadult tubs of appropriate size, using easily cleaned, easily changed substrate; yearling tubs equally appropriately sized and equally easily cleaned; hatchling tubs same again. Every snake housed singly - and if a customer asks, yes, the animals can be kept in the basic, easy to clean setups or you can do a nice display viv, as long as the animal's basic needs for food, water, heating, shelter, security and exercise are met.


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## discodazz (Apr 7, 2007)

i didnt quote you on saying that. its the 1st reply that says larger, better planted vivs.
ive also not said anything about keeping leos on woodchip. i said shop vivs should be stress free environments. whether that means keeping a burm on newspaper or keeping a bd on tiles.
most of the shops near me arent particularly big and the shopkeepers do the best they can with the space they have and most wouldnt sell to impulse buyers but there are always some shops that go against all this and keep unhealthy animals in poor conditions and sell to anyone. 
like i said you will never find a perfect shop because there will always be something that we would have done differently.


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## Kimmy173 (Aug 2, 2007)

very true :no1:

but that could have been the point of the thread, to find out what our individual versions of perfection were.


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## discodazz (Apr 7, 2007)

true. lets get back to the original thread.


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## davenoble (Aug 25, 2007)

free reptiles??????:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Northwest reps (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes the point of the thread is to find out what everybodys idea of the perfect shop would be and take onboard all your coments and try and put them into practace nobody is right or wrong because everybody as there own ideas on what makes a good reptile shop


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

Adult 'shop pets' for display purposes are a great idea but space is always a pressing concern. Most exotic specialist pet shops I've been in are actually pretty small, cramped places that do the best with the space they've got.

I've always thought that a good alternative would be silhouettes of adult sized animals painted or stuck onto any visible walls and the floor. Each could be labelled with species and average weight. Seeing the size of an 18ft Burmese python stretched out on the floor with a note about its weight and maybe a reference of something of equivalent weight they can relate to might make people think twice about whether or not they could cope with the animal. The same could be said of large lizards like iguanas, water and Nile monitors, and even Tegus.

When it comes to customer service, knowledge is important but what counts at least as much for me is the shop taking responsibility for the animals it sells. I'd much rather have a shop outright refuse to sell me something and know less experienced keepers and impulse buyers will face the same standards than be allowed to buy whatever I want, no questions asked. If I can't convince the shop staff that I have the experience and resources to care for the animal, I'd expect them to tell me to come back after I've done my research. 

I know that can be a precarious balancing act at times but there has to be a balance between profit and animal welfare.


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

what i hate to see is when they have leopard gecko's in small tubs in one viv because they have no room to but them in there own viv so why buy them in u can't even see them also lots of little beardies in one small viv on sand and staff that think they are right and the customer is daft and knows nothing i've never got any of my reptiles from a shop because i just don't like the way they are looked after,and as someone else said over priced.


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## paulibabes (Jan 6, 2008)

free cookies!


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