# Pet Monkey Breeders in the UK



## cpu1

Does anyone know of any breeders of Squirrel monkeys or Capuchin monkeys in the UK? They seem like gold dust to try and find, compared to America.


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## jaykickboxer

cpu1 said:


> Does anyone know of any breeders of Squirrel monkeys or Capuchin monkeys in the UK? They seem like gold dust to try and find, compared to America.


U got a dwa I wouldn't call a monkey a pet ?


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## Lenor

They are relatively hard to find, with good reason. In my view, primates should never be termed "pets" - although they can be kept successfully by private keepers, I don't feel they fit the role expected of a "pet". But that's just my view.

The primate community can be a little reluctant in coming forward in response to posts like this, as so many are posted by idiots who have done no research and clearly do not have the animals best interests at heart -ie they do want a "pet", not a monkey, something they can cuddle up with on the sofa in the evening, feed roast dinners too, keep in a cage in a corner of the house, and dress up in baby clothes. If you're genuinely seeking a troop of these animals, maybe post demonstrating your research/experience/knowledge - how you intend to house them, diet, group dynamics, vet care etc. and as stated above whether you have the dwa in place already, or else how far through the process you are. If people can see you're serious and know your stuff you may well have someone come forward. If not you're likely to receive a bit of flak and not get too far. Primate keeping is always quite an emotive subject as so few people do it right...


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Squirrel monkeys are not DWA.


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## jaykickboxer

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Squirrel monkeys are not DWA.


I didn't no that although I no capuchins are


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## cpu1

jaykickboxer said:


> U got a dwa I wouldn't call a monkey a pet ?


As already mentioned, Squirrel monkeys don't need a DWA. If I wasn't able to get a DWA licence where I live, then I wouldn't get a capuchin in the first place! Any animal which lives with you for its entire life time, which gets cared for by you, fed by you etc is a pet in my book. Undoubtedly pet monkeys are certainly one of the hardest pets to care for, but that doesn't make them any less of a pet imo.



Lenor said:


> They are relatively hard to find, with good reason. In my view, primates should never be termed "pets" - although they can be kept successfully by private keepers, I don't feel they fit the role expected of a "pet". But that's just my view.
> 
> The primate community can be a little reluctant in coming forward in response to posts like this, as so many are posted by idiots who have done no research and clearly do not have the animals best interests at heart -ie they do want a "pet", not a monkey, something they can cuddle up with on the sofa in the evening, feed roast dinners too, keep in a cage in a corner of the house, and dress up in baby clothes. If you're genuinely seeking a troop of these animals, maybe post demonstrating your research/experience/knowledge - how you intend to house them, diet, group dynamics, vet care etc. and as stated above whether you have the dwa in place already, or else how far through the process you are. If people can see you're serious and know your stuff you may well have someone come forward. If not you're likely to receive a bit of flak and not get too far. Primate keeping is always quite an emotive subject as so few people do it right...


I understand the needs of caring for pet monkeys, and have researched it for a good 3 years now. I'd aim to give it the best life possible - if I couldn't, then I wouldn't be considering this at all. That would mean a purely natural diet (no 'human food' whatsoever!), no human clothes at all, plenty of space and lots of ideas to challenge the monkeys intelligence so that it never got bored and depressed.

While a lot of people would argue that pet monkeys should be in the wild, you could argue that with many other pets. The best example I can think of is parrots. Dogs are considered to be very intelligent animals, for obvious reason. The African grey parrot for example, which is one of the most common pet parrot species to have as a pet, is the smartest animal in the world (or top 3 at least) - smarter than any pet monkey or dog. Yet the amount of times I've seen these animals caged up at zoos, with not even one toy to keep them amused. Then these same people can see a dog caged up (which I don't agree with either!) but go absolutely crazy at the owners of the dog for doing this. I believe parrots to be just as hard work as a pet monkey. Yet the same people who get really angry at pet monkey owners, don't blink an eye at pet parrot owners. People argue that pet monkeys should have more freedom. What about parrots then? Shouldn't they be able to fly the way they were created to do? Parrots are if anything, more restricted because of the flying. Some parrot owners do let their birds fly to be fair, but the majority don't. 

Plus people seem to forget that the wild isn't as nice as it is made out to be. In captivity, pet monkeys lose a certain sense of freedom, and they sometimes lose being with their own kind as well. But there are also positives to this. They never have the worry of having to find food, water and shelter. They also don't have to be on the look out for predators which could kill them at any moment. While humans may not be as good company as their own kind, they are still enjoyed to be around, so they don't completely lose that bond.

My final point is pet dogs! When pet dogs were first domesticated, they would have been just as wild as pet monkeys. The only difference being that they were a lot more dangerous. But over years and years, they have been transformed from wolves to lap dogs, to police dogs, to dogs for the blind etc. While it may have taken a long time, we eventually have the most popular pet in the world. If people had the chance to go back on all of the taming of wolves, most people would say no! Monkeys are more intelligent (or capuchins at least) than dogs, so if anything this process would take a lot less time.

I do believe that pet monkeys can, in many (many) years to come be just as tame, if not more, than dogs. It sounds silly now, but they could even be on par with dogs in the jobs they do like helping the blind. The biggest problem with pet monkeys is of course teaching the people who get them how to care for them. It is similar to 'dangerous' dog breeds like Pit bulls I guess in the sense that you want to teach the people who get them how to properly care for them, before it is too late and the breeds are illegal everywhere in the world. Once you teach the people how to care for them, and persuade the people who can't meet the monkeys needs to not get one, then you're onto a winner. Sadly that isn't going to be easy to do. 

A lot of points there, but I do think that they are fair. I don't want to offend anyone who disagrees with pet monkeys being pets, but I do think that you should at least be able to answer these questions before continuing with what you believe about them.


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## Jamiioo

cpu1 said:


> I understand the needs of caring for pet monkeys, and have researched it for a good 3 years now. I'd aim to give *it* the best life possible - if I couldn't, then I wouldn't be considering this at all.


I think you just made your first mistake there. That's going to be highlighted for sure i feel! :whistling2:


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## jonnybrfc

Hi how many do you intend to keep and how to you propose to keep them, will you have an indoor heated area with a large outdoor area, they cannot be kept in cages and most importantly can't be kept on their own!


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## ljb107

Jamiioo said:


> I think you just made your first mistake there. That's going to be highlighted for sure i feel! :whistling2:


Uh oh! Excrement is gonna go down now, for sure!


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## 5plusmany

jonnybrfc said:


> Hi how many do you intend to keep and how to you propose to keep them, will you have an indoor heated area with a large outdoor area, they cannot be kept in cages and most importantly can't be kept on their own!


^^I'd like to know this too.. ^^


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## Disillusioned

A fair point to make is that most people on this forum will not agree with any primate being kept on it's own, no matter how much time you spend with it. They need their own kind and get very depressed if they are denied contact from other monkeys.
Also, it seems like you believe everyone disagrees with keeping primates in captivity which is not the case at all. Although many people do disagree with it, a lot of people just want to see them kept correctly...myself included =)


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## animalsbeebee

Again jumping on someones back ,why should they say how they are going to keep them to all in sundry ,so people can pick holes in it ,isnt it up to the seller to make sure they are kept correctly before he sells them one


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## cpu1

Jamiioo said:


> I think you just made your first mistake there. That's going to be highlighted for sure i feel! :whistling2:


Rather than choose one word to try and make my whole post seem pointless, why don't you actually try and answer the post properly? It was obviously a mistake. I'm a vegan for a reason - I love animals, and I hate to see them suffer. I wouldn't consider the monkey an object. 

People say they're a pack animal... is it me, or are dogs pack animals as well? Yet people don't really think twice about seeing people keep one dog as a pet. Dogs love human companionship, as do monkeys. Lots of animals are kept on their own, when they would prefer not to be I'm sure.


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## jaykickboxer

animalsbeebee said:


> Again jumping on someones back ,why should they say how they are going to keep them to all in sundry ,so people can pick holes in it ,isnt it up to the seller to make sure they are kept correctly before he sells them one


I don't dislike people keeping monkey or anything else and don't normally jump on the bandwagon giving people abuse but how many people start threads asking where to get a pet monkey actually no anything about one before hand I'd say most people that have read enough info would genrally come across places to buy them


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## 5plusmany

Bit of light reading for you...


http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf

This one has interesting info on socialisation:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...OwXEqM&sig=AHIEtbSolTSpscnj8CfmvfgEBtIrCOIbTw

:2thumb:


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## cpu1

jaykickboxer said:


> I don't dislike people keeping monkey or anything else and don't normally jump on the bandwagon giving people abuse but how many people start threads asking where to get a pet monkey actually no anything about one before hand I'd say most people that have read enough info would genrally come across places to buy them


Believe me, I've been looking for years and have never come across either of the species I've been trying to find in the UK. Marmosets are easy enough, but not Squirrel or Capuchin. That's why I came to this forum, one of the best places to try and find one.


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## Disillusioned

I think it is probably possible to find squirrel monkeys but I've never seen capuchins for sale in the UK, must happen though.


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## Jamiioo

cpu1 said:


> Rather than choose one word to try and make my whole post seem pointless, why don't you actually try and answer the post properly? It was obviously a mistake. I'm a vegan for a reason - I love animals, and I hate to see them suffer. I wouldn't consider the monkey an object. <<< _(Oops you done it again )_
> 
> People say they're a pack animal... is it me, or are dogs pack animals as well? Yet people don't really think twice about seeing people keep one dog as a pet. Dogs love human companionship, as do monkeys. Lots of animals are kept on their own, when they would prefer not to be I'm sure.


Because clearly, I'm not answering it. If i was going to, i would have. 

I was just saying that people with Primate experience responding to this thread ARE going to bring that up. It comes up on every Monkey related post you read on here. 

You are also pretty much contradicting yourself by your "Dogs are pack animals but kept alone" comparison.


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## cpu1

Jamiioo said:


> Because clearly, I'm not answering it. If i was going to, i would have.
> 
> I was just saying that people with Primate experience responding to this thread ARE going to bring that up. It comes up on every Monkey related post you read on here.
> 
> You are also pretty much contradicting yourself by your "Dogs are pack animals but kept alone" comparison.


It was an honest 2 letter mistake, can we just drop it please?

What I'm trying to explain is that animals that live in packs in the wild, can live a happy life on their own in captivity provided they have the mental stimulation. People will have one dog, or one parrot, and the pet will still be happy with just human companionship. My point was, what's the difference between a dog/parrot and a monkey in this scenario?


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## jaykickboxer

Disillusioned said:


> I think it is probably possible to find squirrel monkeys but I've never seen capuchins for sale in the UK, must happen though.


I've seen both monkey bird used to be a decent exotic mammal forum but its baron now u used to get a few things pop up in cage and aviary magazine aswell


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## Tarron

Im not going to slate you in this post. You seem to have done some research, though more wouldnt hurt. I assume any decent breeder you come across will ensure all I formation and advice is given before, during and after the sale.

However, your dog/pack analogy is flawed.

Dogs have evolved over approximately 6 to 10 thousand years, in line with humans and their evolution. Man did not tame a wolf and breed them to become dogs. Wolves began slowly integrating in to human societies starting by scavenging in the outskirts of settlements and gradually getting closer. There was a positive natural selection of the tamer wolves getting more food and protection from humans, and I exchange humans were able to share the spoils of a tame wolfs hunt.

In contrast, primates have been kept for a mere few hundred years, dependant on the specific civilisation. Primates dont associate humans within thier social circle, and require the company of the own species for many different reasons.
Not least of which is education. Whereas reptiles are born or hatched with an inate ability to survive, primates learn all thier social behaviours from other members of the troop. From looking after babies to hu ting or using tools.

This is where the differences lie, and this is the reason why primates musts only be kept withh others of their own kind.

There are a great many well respected primate keepers on this forum. They have a great deal of knowledge and experience to hand out, but they do ask for responsible, sensible people to speak to. Anyone coming in to the loop with an attitude of 'I know best' will be ignored. Im not saying this is you, but I would bare this in mind in future. Good luck with your search for help.

Tarron


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## mrcriss

cpu1 said:


> It was an honest 2 letter mistake, can we just drop it please?
> 
> What I'm trying to explain is that animals that live in packs in the wild, can live a happy life on their own in captivity provided they have the mental stimulation. People will have one dog, or one parrot, and the pet will still be happy with just human companionship. My point was, *what's the difference between a dog/parrot and a monkey* in this scenario?


A dog is domesticated, monkey's aren't.


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## sam gamgee

Worthless comment time but a few things......
Firstly, anyone that wants to keep a particular animal will do so wether anyone on here or elsewhere advises otherwise so best to help, IMO.
And to those that say`oh, the animal is far better in captivity cos it will be fed and watered and never scared bla bla`.......well, think how you would feel living within the confines of a house waiting........for what, exactly?
If a creature is bred captive, well, you can only do your best. Why take from the wild??????
Finally, crucially, there are some knowledgeable folk on here, there are some holier than thou types on here, there are some cretins on here : sometimes that line is sooo difficult to see!

I`ll go now!:lol2:

Dave.


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## elmthesofties

cpu1 said:


> Rather than choose one word to try and make my whole post seem pointless, why don't you actually try and answer the post properly? It was obviously a mistake. I'm a vegan for a reason - I love animals, and I hate to see them suffer. I wouldn't consider the monkey an object.
> 
> People say they're a pack animal... is it me, or are dogs pack animals as well? Yet people don't really think twice about seeing people keep one dog as a pet. Dogs love human companionship, as do monkeys. Lots of animals are kept on their own, when they would prefer not to be I'm sure.


I'm sorry, I wouldn't have liked to have join in on this, but this actually upset me quite a bit.
1. You KNOW that they should be kept in groups. It's not like you're some well meaning 11 year old who desperately wants a rat but doesn't know that they need to live in groups. You are saying that you want to keep an incredibly sociable and highly intelligent creature all on it's own for it's entire miserable existence, with you being it's only real company. Do you think that your 'pet' is going to be happy? The fact that you are (hopefully) fully aware of all these problems upsets me the most, because you know how easily preventable it would be.
2. Dogs are domesticated. They have been bred specifically to 'fit' humans. Monkeys aren't and haven't. and I hope they never will be, but whatever. My opinion isn't relevant Another point is that most dogs will be free ranging all day every day. If they want companionship, they have it. Unless your house is COMPLETELY monkey proof, then you are probably going to be unable to have it out of the cage/enclosure/etc for the vast majority of the day.
3. Just because you're a vegan doesn't automatically give you an excuse to keep a monkey alone, I'm afraid. I'm only a mere vegetarian, but I don't take that as an excuse to be tougher with the dog if she does something I'm not happy with or whatever.

Sorry for expressing my opinion, but y'know.


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## cpu1

elmthesofties said:


> I'm sorry, I wouldn't have liked to have join in on this, but this actually upset me quite a bit.
> 1. You KNOW that they should be kept in groups. It's not like you're some well meaning 11 year old who desperately wants a rat but doesn't know that they need to live in groups. You are saying that you want to keep an incredibly sociable and highly intelligent creature all on it's own for it's entire miserable existence, with you being it's only real company. Do you think that your 'pet' is going to be happy? The fact that you are (hopefully) fully aware of all these problems upsets me the most, because you know how easily preventable it would be.
> 2. Dogs are domesticated. They have been bred specifically to 'fit' humans. Monkeys aren't and haven't. and I hope they never will be, but whatever. My opinion isn't relevant Another point is that most dogs will be free ranging all day every day. If they want companionship, they have it. Unless your house is COMPLETELY monkey proof, then you are probably going to be unable to have it out of the cage/enclosure/etc for the vast majority of the day.
> 3. Just because you're a vegan doesn't automatically give you an excuse to keep a monkey alone, I'm afraid. I'm only a mere vegetarian, but I don't take that as an excuse to be tougher with the dog if she does something I'm not happy with or whatever.
> 
> Sorry for expressing my opinion, but y'know.


Pet capuchins cost thousands to buy, so cost would be the first major issue in getting more than one. That's forgetting space issues, food costs, vet costs (which I'd imagine would be a lot, still need to look into this some more) etc 

If dogs have been tamed to like being alone with humans, why not start that process with monkeys now setting them up as brilliant pets for the future? It may take a long time, but if the world is going to go on forever (or a good million years, whatever you believe I guess) eventually we could end up with monkeys on par with pet dogs. I'm sure most people who own pet dogs wouldn't like to go back on wolves being domesticated all those years ago. I have no idea how long this would take, but it would certainly be worth it in the long run. 

I would always let the monkey roam free of the house, I hate the idea of them being cramped up in cages. Yes, that includes monkey proofing my house. So yes, if they wouldn't to see me, or have some time to themselves, they could. 

I said I was vegan because I didn't want people to think I thought of animals as objects, not to try and make myself all big and mighty! 

I don't want to offend, I want to discuss and debate! Sorry if you felt this way.


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## Zoo-Man

I would never keep a primate on its own, regardless of how much time I was able to spend with it, or how much it roamed freely around the house. This is why I do not like the monkey helpers they train in America for paraplegics. It is selfish to expect a monkey to put up with & deal with an existence without it's own kind.

As for the dog argument, I personally think that dogs should be kept with at least one other dog. I currently have 5 dogs.

You will have a tough time finding a Squirrel Monkey for sale, but there are plenty of Capuchin Monkeys for sale all over the internet, many from Cameroon.


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## cpu1

Zoo-Man said:


> I would never keep a primate on its own, regardless of how much time I was able to spend with it, or how much it roamed freely around the house. This is why I do not like the monkey helpers they train in America for paraplegics. It is selfish to expect a monkey to put up with & deal with an existence without it's own kind.
> 
> As for the dog argument, I personally think that dogs should be kept with at least one other dog. I currently have 5 dogs.
> 
> You will have a tough time finding a Squirrel Monkey for sale, but there are plenty of Capuchin Monkeys for sale all over the internet, many from Cameroon.


Looking at your 'zoo' in your signature I noticed that you owned one parrot on its own - isn't that the same thing though? Because I know that parrots live with lots of other parrots in the wild. Plus, they're extremely intelligent animals as well. 

The only capuchins I could find were in America - will have another look though!


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## Zoo-Man

cpu1 said:


> Looking at your 'zoo' in your signature I noticed that you owned one parrot on its own - isn't that the same thing though? Because I know that parrots live with lots of other parrots in the wild. Plus, they're extremely intelligent animals as well.
> 
> The only capuchins I could find were in America - will have another look though!


Yes, I own a single parrot, who I took on as a rehomer. She was hand-reared as a chick, & does not get on well with other parrots. If I was buying a parrot, I would opt for a parent-reared youngster, who will be much more well adjusted towards natural behaviours & habits. Then the more natural lifestyle of social living could be provided.

I thought you might have already been familiar with the oh so common scam ads of Capuchin monkeys for sale by Cameroon scammers.


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## mrcriss

cpu1 said:


> Pet capuchins cost thousands to buy, so cost would be the first major issue in getting more than one. That's forgetting space issues, food costs, vet costs (which I'd imagine would be a lot, still need to look into this some more) etc
> 
> If dogs have been tamed to like being alone with humans, why not start that process with monkeys now setting them up as brilliant pets for the future? It may take a long time, but if the world is going to go on forever (or a good million years, whatever you believe I guess) eventually we could end up with monkeys on par with pet dogs. I'm sure most people who own pet dogs wouldn't like to go back on wolves being domesticated all those years ago. I have no idea how long this would take, but it would certainly be worth it in the long run.
> 
> I would always let the monkey roam free of the house, I hate the idea of them being cramped up in cages. Yes, that includes monkey proofing my house. So yes, if they wouldn't to see me, or have some time to themselves, they could.
> 
> I said I was vegan because I didn't want people to think I thought of animals as objects, not to try and make myself all big and mighty!
> 
> I don't want to offend, I want to discuss and debate! Sorry if you felt this way.


Ok....at first I wasn't certain, but _*surely*_ this has to be a troll going about his trolly business?:blowup:


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## cpu1

Zoo-Man said:


> Yes, I own a single parrot, who I took on as a rehomer. She was hand-reared as a chick, & does not get on well with other parrots. If I was buying a parrot, I would opt for a parent-reared youngster, who will be much more well adjusted towards natural behaviours & habits. Then the more natural lifestyle of social living could be provided.
> 
> I thought you might have already been familiar with the oh so common scam ads of Capuchin monkeys for sale by Cameroon scammers.


I never look more into ads unless they're a realistic price. When you look into ads, you _then_ find out the location. I probably wasn't stupid enough to look more into the adverts in the first place too see this information because of how unrealistic the prices were. 

Why do you find it so hard to believe that I have indeed done my research on pet monkeys? Why would I even make something like this up to everyone on here, about the years of research I've done on primates in captivity? Do you really spend your spare time trying to trick someone you don't even know on a forum to make them look bad in front of everyone? Isn't that bullying to some extent? If you have things you want to discuss with me, then discuss nicely please. By being rude to me, all it does is put me off posting on this thread anymore, and thus making me more likely to actually get a pet monkey without listening to the thread anymore. Ironic considering your aim is to persuade me _to_ listen to you and the other members on here about certain aspects of primate care before I get one, if at all 

Just because there are some people who are terrible monkey owners, doesn't mean everyone else is. Stop treating us all the same, as there are actually some who will properly care for a pet monkey.

mrcriss - you've barely contributed to this thread, yet you're making accusations like that? Write up a proper post, rather than posting small insulting sentences to me. If you don't want to, then why are you even bothering to write anything at all in the first place?


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## Zoo-Man

cpu1 said:


> I never look more into ads unless they're a realistic price. When you look into ads, you _then_ find out the location. I probably wasn't stupid enough to look more into the adverts in the first place too see this information because of how unrealistic the prices were.
> 
> Why do you find it so hard to believe that I have indeed done my research on pet monkeys? Why would I even make something like this up to everyone on here, about the years of research I've done on primates in captivity? Do you really spend your spare time trying to trick someone you don't even know on a forum to make them look bad in front of everyone? Isn't that bullying to some extent? If you have things you want to discuss with me, then discuss nicely please. By being rude to me, all it does is put me off posting on this thread anymore, and thus making me more likely to actually get a pet monkey without listening to the thread anymore. Ironic considering your aim is to persuade me _to_ listen to you and the other members on here about certain aspects of primate care before I get one, if at all
> 
> Just because there are some people who are terrible monkey owners, doesn't mean everyone else is. Stop treating us all the same, as there are actually some who will properly care for a pet monkey.
> 
> mrcriss - you've barely contributed to this thread, yet you're making accusations like that? Write up a proper post, rather than posting small insulting sentences to me. If you don't want to, then why are you even bothering to write anything at all in the first place?


I wasn't being rude, it was just my wording. My apologies if that is how it came across.

Im sorry but I just cannot accept that a lone monkey kept in the house as a loose house pet is having all it's needs met. To be honest, I personally think it is downright ignorant & an act of cruelty. But that's just me. If price is a major factor in wanting to get only one monkey, then I'd say compromise & go for a pair of Marmosets. I used to have Marmosets.

Also, is you had a monkey who had the run of the house, what about the urine & faeces that they produce so nicely?


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## cpu1

Zoo-Man said:


> I wasn't being rude, it was just my wording. My apologies if that is how it came across.
> 
> Im sorry but I just cannot accept that a lone monkey kept in the house as a loose house pet is having all it's needs met. To be honest, I personally think it is downright ignorant & an act of cruelty. But that's just me. If price is a major factor in wanting to get only one monkey, then I'd say compromise & go for a pair of Marmosets. I used to have Marmosets.
> 
> Also, is you had a monkey who had the run of the house, what about the urine & faeces that they produce so nicely?


Thanks, I appreciate it - sorry if I read it wrongly as well.

Cool, what were they like as pets? Did you have them for long?

The majority of primate owners use diapers I believe, and change them every 2-3 hours. Then when they're in their cages at night, they take them off completely. Some people have potty trained them, although it is supposed to be very difficult and can take a long time to teach. By using diapers, they get used to human handling which is supposed to be good for the taming process. Also, it prevents them from flinging their faeces around which I'm sure is a good thing!


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## bothrops

cpu1 said:


> Pet capuchins cost thousands to buy, so cost would be the first major issue in getting more than one. That's forgetting space issues, food costs, vet costs (which I'd imagine would be a lot, still need to look into this some more) etc
> 
> If dogs have been tamed to like being alone with humans, why not start that process with monkeys now setting them up as brilliant pets for the future? It may take a long time, but if the world is going to go on forever (or a good million years, whatever you believe I guess) eventually we could end up with monkeys on par with pet dogs. I'm sure most people who own pet dogs wouldn't like to go back on wolves being domesticated all those years ago. I have no idea how long this would take, but it would certainly be worth it in the long run.
> 
> I would always let the monkey roam free of the house, I hate the idea of them being cramped up in cages. Yes, that includes monkey proofing my house. So yes, if they wouldn't to see me, or have some time to themselves, they could.
> 
> I said I was vegan because I didn't want people to think I thought of animals as objects, not to try and make myself all big and mighty!
> 
> I don't want to offend, I want to discuss and debate! Sorry if you felt this way.



If cost is an issue and would stop you buying more than one, then, quite simply, you can not afford to keep that species.

Surely as a vegan, your philosophy should be much more about the needs of the animal rather than your needs for a play mate?


If you have done the research you claim to have, you will have found that single primates kept as pets are damaged by this and the most common victim of a damaged primate (apart from obviously the primate itself) is the owner that probably took it away from its mother early in order to hand raise it as a tame animal away from its own kind, and is then 'completely surprised' when it hits sexual maturity, has no idea what to do with the new feelings and turns on them.


There is no 'debate' when it comes to keeping primates singly without conspecifics: it is wrong.


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## Tarron

Sir,

I gave you the benefit of the doubt to start with. I offered clear and concise reasoning as to why a primate should not be kept alone. Others have done likewise. I know you read, you liked it, but chose not to comment further on tbe information.

Now I have read further comments from yourself. Your reasoning for wanting a single animal is down to price. This is not only selfish, but proves that you have not done as much research as possible. You then mention free roaming a nappy trained primate. In britain, amongst decent keepers like those on this forum, that is a massive no no. I am surprised you never came across this opinion in your years of research.

I do not own prkmates and never intend to. I know I will not be able to provide the right home for a group. I have done very minimal research in to their care, however. And I can asure you, the research I made came up with all the information you are being told now. Yes, you will have to sift through the american sites, they are far from perfect with primate welfare, but if you do, you will realise primate care is not that simple.

I highly suggest re evaluating your research methods and locations. Maybe start a thread asking for a keeper to come forward and act as a personal mentor of some sort, so the rigbt information is being passed out. Then you will also have a foot in the door for breeders.

Thank you


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## mrcriss

cpu1 said:


> mrcriss - you've barely contributed to this thread, yet you're making accusations like that? Write up a proper post, rather than posting small insulting sentences to me. If you don't want to, then why are you even bothering to write anything at all in the first place?


Because the others are making all the necessary points beautifully.

What you don't realise, is that there is one of these threads every couple of weeks.......almost down to the exact wording *("years of research")*. If you think you're being hard done by, look at some of the other threads....you're getting off lightly! They get very wearing. I made little comment, because I would probably not have been as polite as Zoo-Man et al.

Stumbling upon this thread originally, I assumed it was just another of the same. But the depth of your superiority _("Rather than choose one word to try and make my whole post seem pointless, why don't you actually try and answer the post properly?")_, coupled with hilarious statements _("It may take a long time, but if the world is going to go on forever (or a good million years, whatever you believe I guess) eventually we could end up with monkeys on par with pet dogs)"_, I'm almost certain that this is an exercise in trolling.

If you really are a vegan, you must be opposed to animal cruelty of all kinds. Well then, how do you plan to substitute for a monkey member of the opposite sex once the hormones start rushing and it becomes sexually active, confused, and probably even vicious? Actually, don't answer that....I really don't want to know!:lol2: How do you plan to communicate with these most vocal of animals in their native tongue (or have your _''years of research"_ taught you how to speak monkey?). Is it not _cruel_ to deny all of these things? How (as a vegan) can you put a beautiful animal through the indignity of wearing clothes (i.e.nappies)?

Also, you wish to have your poor new charge free roaming around the house.....obviously you haven't seen the damage a capuchin get get up to with only a few minutes free to get up to what monkeys do best! I have a picture (which i won't post to protect the gentleman's privacy) of an acquaintance's kitchen when one of his capuchin's had been loose in there for about 5 minutes by mistake, and it is _utter devastation!_ When it comes to capuchins, _there is no such thing_ as "monkey-proofing" your house!

I wonder why your years of research (at least you didn't say you have a degree in monkeys as some others have) haven't brought up even these most basic of points? You've learnt about the possibility of potty training, but not about the crushing depression that a solitary monkey will face!

So I stick by my statement.....I smell something fishy going on here :whistling2:

Kisses xxx


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## Disgruntled

This is getting a bit rude. There is no need to be nasty please. It is very easy to do online, we would often not be so outspoken in person. Can't we lock this now? Its becoming an argument and is not a nice thing. :eek4:


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## PETERAROBERTSON

I have to agree with chris.
This aint for real.
Tired and fed up with same old same old.
Research.....half way through series of friends.
Think its better ignored.
Theres plenty caps and squirrels and the chances of this guy getting are nik.

Theres solo caps due to partners lossed.
Theyre looking for partners.
And would let go for the sake of getting back with partner.
Let go to purposely keep solo..no chance

Squirells.
Nobody would sell as single to be kept that way.
Dypers..
Whos gonna remove teeth.
No vet this side of the states..

Think its best not to get involved.
Same old same old.

Anyway im away to change the troops nappies.
And see if the caps made my coffee yet..


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Disgruntled said:


> This is getting a bit rude. There is no need to be nasty please. It is very easy to do online, we would often not be so outspoken in person. Can't we lock this now? Its becoming an argument and is not a nice thing. :eek4:


Here here.
Humer him.
Dont abuse.
Diplomacy...
Or is that a word that just got rammed at me.?


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## sam gamgee

If it is a touch of trolling, hell, you all fell for it and always probably will! Me included to a degree.........

Hey ho!

Dave


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## PETERAROBERTSON

sam gamgee said:


> If it is a touch of trolling, hell, you all fell for it and always probably will! Me included to a degree.........
> 
> Hey ho!
> 
> Dave


More anoying thing Dave.
How manny can say they started out with 100% know how.
And havent made mistakes through not knowing.
But all of a sudden.
You become an expert.

Thats more sad than the stupidity of this thread..
I do my own thing.
But like i say.
It may not work for you.

Research would guide you to the same questions and dreams.
The answers are there.

But peoples concept of pet monkeys will never leave.
Crist tarzan ..friends etc etc.
But its not realistic.
There all nasty wee buggers.
But thats just monkeys for you.

But i still think all fell into yet another trap.
And i for one am a wee bit fed up with it.


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## Tarron

Id rather fall for a troll than ignore a serious enquiry.


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Agree tarron.
But aint it about education.
Not abuse.

I used to say what i thought.
Got shot down.
Could be a kid asking.
Not that theres out wrong with your answers.

Just voicing an opinion.
Not all wishers dreams come true.
And most learn the hard way.

Caps n squirrels bite hard..lol


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## elmthesofties

Tarron said:


> Id rather fall for a troll than ignore a serious enquiry.


This x1000.
Anyway, hopefully if this thread stays up, then somebody learnt something. Maybe not the op, but somebody might.


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## Tarron

Hopefully ive not caused any, or too much, offence. I agree education is the best and only way forward. Sorry if I lost my rag a little bit. Thats to all, including the op.


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## kodakira

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Agree tarron.
> But aint it about education.
> Not abuse.
> 
> I used to say what i thought.
> Got shot down.
> Could be a kid asking.
> Not that theres out wrong with your answers.
> 
> Just voicing an opinion.
> Not all wishers dreams come true.
> And most learn the hard way.
> 
> Caps n squirrels bite hard..lol


Hi

Not getting involved with the discussion as I think most things have been covered.

I will say one thing though Peter, and that is I believe you have got through to more people being diplomatic than you did when you were less diplomatic. :lol2:

These discussions used to be a free for all, when I look now there are more people who join in, who you have helped in the right deirection or have taken on board what you have said are are now all on the same page. That has to be good for the primates.

It may be a slow process but one I believe one that is going in the right direction, due to your input. :2thumb:

Just my opinion !!

Best Wishes

Neil


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## julieszoo

Think the OP needs to read your thread on Alfie, Peter. Think that illustrates the reality of what happens when someone (however well intentioned) gets a pet monkey....


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## mikemcg93

cpu1 said:


> As already mentioned, Squirrel monkeys don't need a DWA. If I wasn't able to get a DWA licence where I live, then I wouldn't get a capuchin in the first place! Any animal which lives with you for its entire life time, which gets cared for by you, fed by you etc is a pet in my book. Undoubtedly pet monkeys are certainly one of the hardest pets to care for, but that doesn't make them any less of a pet imo.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand the needs of caring for pet monkeys, and have researched it for a good 3 years now. I'd aim to give it the best life possible - if I couldn't, then I wouldn't be considering this at all. That would mean a purely natural diet (no 'human food' whatsoever!), no human clothes at all, plenty of space and lots of ideas to challenge the monkeys intelligence so that it never got bored and depressed.
> 
> While a lot of people would argue that pet monkeys should be in the wild, you could argue that with many other pets. The best example I can think of is parrots. Dogs are considered to be very intelligent animals, for obvious reason. The African grey parrot for example, which is one of the most common pet parrot species to have as a pet, is the smartest animal in the world (or top 3 at least) - smarter than any pet monkey or dog. Yet the amount of times I've seen these animals caged up at zoos, with not even one toy to keep them amused. Then these same people can see a dog caged up (which I don't agree with either!) but go absolutely crazy at the owners of the dog for doing this. I believe parrots to be just as hard work as a pet monkey. Yet the same people who get really angry at pet monkey owners, don't blink an eye at pet parrot owners. People argue that pet monkeys should have more freedom. What about parrots then? Shouldn't they be able to fly the way they were created to do? Parrots are if anything, more restricted because of the flying. Some parrot owners do let their birds fly to be fair, but the majority don't.
> 
> Plus people seem to forget that the wild isn't as nice as it is made out to be. In captivity, pet monkeys lose a certain sense of freedom, and they sometimes lose being with their own kind as well. But there are also positives to this. They never have the worry of having to find food, water and shelter. They also don't have to be on the look out for predators which could kill them at any moment. While humans may not be as good company as their own kind, they are still enjoyed to be around, so they don't completely lose that bond.
> 
> My final point is pet dogs! When pet dogs were first domesticated, they would have been just as wild as pet monkeys. The only difference being that they were a lot more dangerous. But over years and years, they have been transformed from wolves to lap dogs, to police dogs, to dogs for the blind etc. While it may have taken a long time, we eventually have the most popular pet in the world. If people had the chance to go back on all of the taming of wolves, most people would say no! Monkeys are more intelligent (or capuchins at least) than dogs, so if anything this process would take a lot less time.
> 
> I do believe that pet monkeys can, in many (many) years to come be just as tame, if not more, than dogs. It sounds silly now, but they could even be on par with dogs in the jobs they do like helping the blind. The biggest problem with pet monkeys is of course teaching the people who get them how to care for them. It is similar to 'dangerous' dog breeds like Pit bulls I guess in the sense that you want to teach the people who get them how to properly care for them, before it is too late and the breeds are illegal everywhere in the world. Once you teach the people how to care for them, and persuade the people who can't meet the monkeys needs to not get one, then you're onto a winner. Sadly that isn't going to be easy to do.
> 
> A lot of points there, but I do think that they are fair. I don't want to offend anyone who disagrees with pet monkeys being pets, but I do think that you should at least be able to answer these questions before continuing with what you believe about them.


I can see you are taking it serious and don't doubt you will try to give it the best life you can but as others have said it is a life long commitment and I think the pet you get shouldn't depend on what is made possible in your area. For example, you said if you wasn't able to get a DWA license you wouldn't get one. A lot of people would see this as not being fully committed as many monkey owners would move to an area they could obtain a license. All monkeys are different but it seems you are putting squirrel monkeys and capuchin monkeys in the same category. They may be similar but have very different needs, not having a go just something to bare in mind.


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## benjo

This is from January, 2013...


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## mikemcg93

benjo said:


> This is from January, 2013...


Well done, it is January 2015 now. Amazing isn't it.


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## herper147

mikemcg93 said:


> Well done, it is January 2015 now. Amazing isn't it.


Not off to the best start...


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## mikemcg93

herper147 said:


> Not off to the best start...


Problem?


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## Liam Yule

Sigh, I read the whole damn thing without looking at the dates :whistling2: :2thumb:


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## Sylvi

With the words 'pet' and 'monkey' in the title it is always worth a bump. Old threads can be worth a read.


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## PETERAROBERTSON

Sylvi said:


> With the words 'pet' and 'monkey' in the title it is always worth a bump. Old threads can be worth a read.


Have to agree
Two words that don't do well together


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## Villians1980

Does anyone breed these in uk please


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## Malc

Villians1980 said:


> Does anyone breed these in uk please


LOL - probably.... maybe.... maybe not :lol2:

Why resurrect a seven year old post ?


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## Demonique

Malc said:


> LOL - probably.... maybe.... maybe not :lol2:
> 
> Why resurrect a seven year old post ?


Should have started a new post instead of bumping such an old post


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## Laura711

jaykickboxer said:


> I didn't no that although I no capuchins are


Where can I buy a capuchin monkey in the UK. Thanks 😊


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