# too many lumens??



## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

hi, i'm wanting to get my head around what lighting i need for a 600mm tall viv and wondering is their an optimal amount of lumens for this height viv and can too many be damaging for the plants and frogs??
thanks


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## treefella (Dec 21, 2013)

With a bit of luck Arcadiajohn will jump in on this one with a few straight answers.
I've struggled over the years to grow different plants or groups of plants at different heights in the viv or relation to what the rules say arboreal, terrestrial light or shade blah blah blah but after the amazing reviews about the Arcadia jungle dawn led bulbs I gave them a try and the results are fantastic.


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

treefella said:


> With a bit of luck Arcadiajohn will jump in on this one with a few straight answers.
> I've struggled over the years to grow different plants or groups of plants at different heights in the viv or relation to what the rules say arboreal, terrestrial light or shade blah blah blah but after the amazing reviews about the Arcadia jungle dawn led bulbs I gave them a try and the results are fantastic.


yeah the jungle dawn lights are great, i've been using one in my tester viv.
just interesting to find out more info as i've found some led's with a higher lumen count and wondered if they would be better for taller vivs


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## treefella (Dec 21, 2013)

My viv is 800 mm from substrate to bulb and the 13 watt version does the job for me but I've restricted to come on for only 7 hours a day as the plant growth is explosive at all heights in the viv. 
I use a day light t 8 tube 6500 k for general lighting and viewing but it does nothing for the plants at this height really.


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

treefella said:


> My viv is 800 mm from substrate to bulb and the 13 watt version does the job for me but I've restricted to come on for only 7 hours a day as the plant growth is explosive at all heights in the viv.
> I use a day light t 8 tube 6500 k for general lighting and viewing but it does nothing for the plants at this height really.


that's good to hear about the plant growth! the 13w jungle dawn is 1000 lumen, so maybe more would be too powerful??


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## treefella (Dec 21, 2013)

Someone did explain to me once about light but as I find science as easy to swallow as a full hot baked potato not much really sunk in but I believe that the majority of the lumen count in light is the visible light we see and not what the light produces or something like that.
I found a more powerful led with a colour temp of 6500 Kelvin which turned plants near to it white and stunted or no growth the further away even though the viv was brightly light.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Remember one thing here, your frogs.
They don`t come from a sunny beach where they get year round sun tans.
They come from under trees, or to clarify, they live in shaded places.
We want bright lights for our plants and few of us consider the frogs needs.
By all accounts get a bright light, and the Jungle Dawn will do the job nicely, but make sure your frogs can get away from the bright lights.
Plenty shaded areas for them to hide in under plants or logs or do what I`ve done and put in shelves made with cork bark to create canopies where they can sit away from the glare.


Mike


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

thanks mike, i really like the idea of creating zones of light and shade for them.
it will be interesting to get this first viv done and see how i can make it work better for the frogs


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

the 13w jd will be a perfect light for your viv and will provide the necessary light and shade effect mike is talking about, whoch i think is key to bold as brass frogs :no1: if your viv is especially wide, you might need 2 bulbs to provide enough light coverage. :2thumb:


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## treefella (Dec 21, 2013)

Well said Mike.
I use the AJD to create the dappled effect of light filtering down through the viv which not only looks pleasing to the eye but also creates many areas of different light levels that I cannot do with t8 or t5 tubes


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## Cornish-J (Sep 4, 2011)

as mike says, think about their natural environment, the jungle floor is a very dark place, very little light will penetrate the canopy. However not all darts live on the jungle floor, mystis being a good example!

I use lucky reptile light T5 strips with arcadia freshwater pro tubes - i use 2 strips per viv. You're more than welcome to pop over and have a look Martin if it will help you gauge the light levels etc.


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

Cornish-J said:


> as mike says, think about their natural environment, the jungle floor is a very dark place, very little light will penetrate the canopy. However not all darts live on the jungle floor, mystis being a good example!
> 
> I use lucky reptile light T5 strips with arcadia freshwater pro tubes - i use 2 strips per viv. You're more than welcome to pop over and have a look Martin if it will help you gauge the light levels etc.


i've got a few different lights here and on order, so it will be nice to have a play around and get it looking right.
just built my first viv:mf_dribble:, so getting there now!
that would be awesome if i could pop over and have a look at your setup and a chat.


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

hi,

I wouldn't worry about lumens as such, we simply cant re-create the energy of the sun in full.

all of the answers are of course hidden in the wild. This statement is what drives myself and our business. It simply means that nature knows best. Evolution has allowed subtle changes in every species and sub species per environment to be to obtain ALL that they need to THRIVE in the wild as THEY have need.

All we as ethical and forward thinking keepers have to do is to re-create as many of these parameters as possible is a SAFE and MEASURED way.

bio-activity is of course one important step as is accurate hydration and a well thought out and very varied diet.

Light is essential to life. it is as simple as that. Whether it is from direct exposure, leaf scatter or crepuscular type illumination.

The best method of all of course and has already been stated is the "light and shade method" this is the process of providing the upper index quantity of light at the basking or boosting point and leave this to trail off into cool and shade. Decoration is adjusted so that the animal whatever species it is can obtain the exact index or quantity of light that IT requires as and when IT requires it. Self-regulation

Jungle Dawn is brilliant as it is a flood source, adjustable and it produces a very high PAR evenly over the emission zone. this energy from light is at a natural sunlight colour of 6.5k kelvin and will grow any species of plant. It is also easy to move the lamp to create these essential areas of light and shade.

Jungle Dawn has been designed to be used with UVB lamp and as such they can be grouped side by side over the illuminated area. We should seek to light around half (ish) per viv and leave the other half dropping off into shade. This can be vertically or horizontally or even both. 

Yes it is a defined science now but with this comes good accuracy.

if you post up the viv dims and decoration and the species to be kept I will work out exactly what you need to light it with the best possible results

this may also help Dappled light for small amphibians : Arcadia Reptile

good luck!

john


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

These vivs are 40x40x70 tall and all lit with Jungle Dawns.
As you can see there is plenty of light.
But creating shelves high up helps to give dark areas below where the frogs can get away from the lights.
They do spend time hidden away but they are always out and about and doing what frogs do best.
The main thing is that they have the choice.


Mike


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## martin r (Jan 10, 2009)

thanks john, i'll sort out some pics when i find my lead:bash:
i really appreciate everyones help, as these frogs are messing with my mind haha


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