# Exeter Show Cancelled



## TBUK

Sorry everyone but sadly the show has been cancelled.
I'm really really sorry


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## Fixx

Chin up Jason. :grouphug:


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## Ssthisto

Is this "It's been cancelled completely" and not just "It's changed venue" ?


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## wohic

Mate..


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## Nerys

no sshtisto, regretably circumstances have forced a stop to proceedings...

N


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## SiUK

no way any details??


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## Andy

I have made this a sticky thread so hopefully everyone will see it and dont travel down...


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## Ssthisto

Nerys said:


> no sshtisto, regretably circumstances have forced a stop to proceedings...
> 
> N


Are these the sort of circumstances that involve AR groups, pressure on venues and so forth?


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## Andy

Sorry forgot to say does TBUK mind if i change the title? just to make it clearer I didnt know what ERE was at first.


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## CBR1100XX

Nooooo. Sorry about that mate I know you have worked hard to sort out a new place.


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## Fangio

Andy said:


> Sorry forgot to say does TBUK mind if i change the title? just to make it clearer I didnt know what ERE was at first.


me either


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## Sugababe6275

oh no im soooo gutted! cant believe it!


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## baden187

Gutted 

Sorry to hear this for all the ppl involved trying to get this show off the ground after so many ups and downs


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## Athravan

This is unbelievable... 2 days before the event?!


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## Anthony

OMG i am devastated 

Isit being re-schedualed or something or called off altogether ?


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## DeanThorpe

I am really sorry, how stupidly terible, and so late in the day too.

if you want to hold it in ipswich instead theres a chance i can get a venue but its a looooooooooooooooong way from exeter lol


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## hogboy

I couldn't make it down this time, but i am gutted for all concerned.
Really sorry to hear this


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## TBUK

Sorry to everyone I feel such a **** I cant beleave it myself tbh feels like one of my family has just died
Anyone that has payed for tables will of course get there money back but please give us a couple of days it is really gutting for Nick and myself


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## Sugababe6275

we had set up everything ready to take down  such a shame!


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## Athravan

I'm going to have a lot of angry customers in the shop next week (well, guess they won't shop from me anymore).. when they drive 3 hours for the show I hyped up so much to find out there's nothing there 

Just hope a lot of people find out about it before driving from all over the country


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## SuperTed

Sugababe6275 said:


> we had set up everything ready to take down  such a shame!


you know how to make someone feel even worse dont you :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## loulou

Sorry to hear this Jason, chin up, and dont feel a whatever the stars are ment to mean we know you worked your backside off since the last one, and you tried your hardest to keep it going. 

:grouphug:


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## Sugababe6275

no sorry i didnt mean it like that!


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## wohic

its not jasons fault people.

Its up to him to say why, but it is in no way his fault.


Perhaps we could all turn up at tiny boas and have a cuppa and chear him up


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## Athravan

Sorry.. I'm not blaming anyone either, just a blow.. not your fault guys, you did so well to find another venue too.. just wasn't meant to be perhaps.


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## SiUK

TBUK said:


> Sorry to everyone I feel such a **** I cant beleave it myself tbh feels like one of my family has just died
> Anyone that has payed for tables will of course get there money back but please give us a couple of days it is really gutting for Nick and myself


its not your fault mate, dont be too hard on yourself, you worked really hard to try and sort it, maybe it just wasnt meant to be, sorry to hear that it hasnt gone to plan


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## www.exreptile.com

Again, sorry everyone who has been let down by this last-minute turn of events. As you all already know, the circumstances were beyond our control, and solely in the hands of one person at East Devon District Council (just in case anyone wanted to send letters/emails of complaint etc).

Hopefully we'll be able to arrange events in the future, but not where animals will be sold unfortunately.

And if you think you've got it bad...the Germans left for Exmouth this morning.

Once more I apologise but please don't overload us with emails again, like people did with the change of venue (feel free to overload East Devon District Council though).


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## darkdan99

man that sucks. Is it going to effect other events in the county or only ones in exeter?


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## Fixx

Who do I address my very strongly worded letter of complaint to please? I'd like to make sure it arrives on the right desk(s) possibly the newspapers as well.:cussing:


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## www.exreptile.com

Mark it for the attention of Mr Paul Martin, although I am in no way suggesting people inundate him with letters and emails...but I wont condemn those who do so.


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## darkdan99

maybe you guys should edit the website? Possibly with P.martins email on there and his postal address.


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## wohic

and not forgetting their legal department who did not seem to have a clue......................


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## cornmorphs

man thats crap... dont feel its your fault jason, its not an easy thing to arrange, its outta your hands buddy... we're all with you..


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## peaches

absolutly gutted for all involved. got an email addy as well


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## Fangio

www.exreptile.com said:


> Again, sorry everyone who has been let down by this last-minute turn of events. As you all already know, the circumstances were beyond our control, and solely in the hands of one person at East Devon District Council (just in case anyone wanted to send letters/emails of complaint etc).
> 
> Hopefully we'll be able to arrange events in the future, but not where animals will be sold unfortunately.
> 
> And if you think you've got it bad...the Germans left for Exmouth this morning.
> 
> Once more I apologise but please don't overload us with emails again, like people did with the change of venue (feel free to overload East Devon District Council though).


Just out of curiousity if other councils allow it how can they refuse? Maybe threaten legal action?


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## loulou

Email addy would be good Peaches, and you never know the spam bots may pick it up as well.

EDIT: never mind, lol I am just to slow thatnks wohic


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## Fangio

loulou said:


> Email addy would be good Peaches, and you never know the spam bots may pick it up as well.


:whistling2:
Just the one e-mail from me I think. (It would help if I knew a bit more detail though).


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## tigger79

Sorry to here that Jason, was really looking forward to it,


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## argentine_boa

this guy will be getting an email or letter from me, + i will write a letter to our MP Richard Younger-Ross, he always seems to help and will complain to Exmouth Council and hopefully try and get it back on. Well I will do my best!

This guy sounds like a idiot, I will also get lots of my mates to write letters to him to complaining. It isn't your fault Jason.


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## Ssthisto

Fangio said:


> Just out of curiousity if other councils allow it how can they refuse? Maybe threaten legal action?


The problem arises with the new AWB legislation. The rules have all changed compared to last year, and unfortunately it looks like this show is the next casualty.


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## www.exreptile.com

I'd just like to thank everyone for your response to this news. Admittedly I did fear people might take it badly, but your support is much appreciated at this time.


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## Fangio

Ssthisto said:


> The problem arises with the new AWB legislation. The rules have all changed compared to last year, and unfortunately it looks like this show is the next casualty.


loopholes my friend....loopholes.

If you know the chairman of ERAC it may be worth giving him a call to discuss. Tomorrow though as it's late lol


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## www.exreptile.com

Oh, and website now gives more info.


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## Dan

I have not only arranged for animals to come over from various parts of Europe but i have arranged for accomodation for the people bringing the livestock over, plus the channel crossing, plus arranged for myself to make the 12 hour plus journey down along with collecting a friend on the way, pus arranged for babysitters for my kids on friday and saturday night and my dog is booked into a kennel for 2 nights.

On top of that i have an order for a zoo collection display that is to be opened on the 20th (ie Monday) that i can no longer fit at the current schedule.

To be honest i am very disgusted, i have spent a LOT of time, money and effort on this to make sure everything runs smoothly on my side. 
I will be forwarding my complaint to the appropriate council along with an invoice for the charges incurred and possibley an invoice for the cost of the time involved on both sides of the channel (depending on legal advice).

To act in this manner is unprofessional at best.

EDIT:
Until i know further at no point do i hold Jason or Nick responsible.


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## darkdan99

Can you not just buy lots of ball point pens, and then seller could sell pens with free reptiles?


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## argentine_boa

darkdan99 said:


> Can you not just buy lots of ball point pens, and then seller could sell pens with free reptiles?


That is such a great idea :no1:


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## darkdan99

well technically the reptiles are being given away as a free gift, with the purchase of a £100 bic pen! 

works for ticket touts on ebay!


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## hogboy

Might also be worth contacting the FBH ?


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## Fangio

I'm pretty sure private breeders are exempt from legal action selling at shows but professional traders are not allowed to sell animals there. Hence the reason the other shows are termed "hobbyists meeting" and not "trade show"

Also they could turn up and "show off" their animals as a display and hand out details to people if that'd work.


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## Fangio

hogboy said:


> Might also be worth contacting the FBH ?


Definately


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## argentine_boa

hogboy said:


> Might also be worth contacting the FBH ?


We just need to tell everyone we possibly can. Complain to all MPs, even Gordon Brown :lol2:


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## hogboy

I really really hate pen pushing Jobsworths !!!!


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## wohic

Nick....... I have sent you a pm that I would really apreciate you reading, its to do with the conversation i had with Mr. Martin today.


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## peaches

Surely the FBH or something must be able to do something, clarify it to the council, pull rank or whatever :lol2:

I think it is absoloutely disgusting for it to have got this far and then be stopped this close to the day, not on at all.

I will be sending my email to the council shortly.

Again, like has been said, I do not blame Jason or Nick for this, chin up


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## wohic

Fangio said:


> I'm pretty sure private breeders are exempt from legal action selling at shows but professional traders are not allowed to sell animals there. Hence the reason the other shows are termed "hobbyists meeting" and not "trade show"
> 
> Also they could turn up and "show off" their animals as a display and hand out details to people if that'd work.


 
yup that is the case. taken from the defra site >>

_As before, pet fairs that do not involve the sale of animals, or that do involve the sale of animals but not in the course of a business, can continue without the need for a licence_.


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## argentine_boa

wohic said:


> Nick....... I have sent you a pm that I would really apreciate you reading, its to do with the conversation i had with Mr. Martin today.


We all want to know, please say you swore at him :lol2:. I just hate it how inconciderate some people are. I just want to get a point through to him by cancelling it will not go unnoticed.


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## darkdan99

Just got an email from another forum saying its back on...


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## darkdan99

This was sent at 21.36


> Hi Guys fastest way to let you know that the Exter show is off!
> Know many of you shall be gutted but hopefully you might be able to change arrangements now,
> Below mail for those who havent seen.
> 
> 
> I am sorry to inform you that the Exeter Reptile Expo has been CANCELLED for reasons beyond our control. Despite our best efforts the East Devon District Council will not allow us to go ahead. See the website if you need more information www.exreptile.com
> 
> Please do not reply to this email as we will be extremely busy informing people of this news.
> 
> Our sincere apologies,
> 
> Jason Edworthy and Nick Opie
> 
> 
> 
> XXXXXXXXXXXXX (signed)


And this at 21.57


> Ok now it seems its not cancelled!
> so being NO ONE knows what they are doing.
> Might be best if you all contact whoever needs to be contacted and sort this one yourself!
> Sorry guys!
> Many things comes to mind about this but i best not say huh
> XXXXXXXXXXXXXX(signed)


 
IS it good news?

the mails were sent as a group mail to all the members.


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## argentine_boa

darkdan99 said:


> Just got an email from another forum saying its back on...


huh. what forum? Wait for Jason or Nick to say it is back on.


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## Ssthisto

Fangio said:


> I'm pretty sure private breeders are exempt from legal action selling at shows but professional traders are not allowed to sell animals there. Hence the reason the other shows are termed "hobbyists meeting" and not "trade show"
> 
> Also they could turn up and "show off" their animals as a display and hand out details to people if that'd work.


Jason owns a pet shop.

That might be enough for the council - in a loophole-seeking mode - to slap down the entire show, whether he sold livestock there or not. Because it's organised by a business owner.... It's the same technicality that would have gotten the Manchester show shut down. 

It's amazing how many people ignored this thread... which quite neatly predicted that exactly this sort of thing could happen.


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## Nerys

trust me guys.. ALL the avenues that could be explored were done earlier.. we had a team on the phones for 3 hours this afternoon to councils, regional councils, chris newman, people checking out legislation and defras angle on things..

there is NO chance.. they have it totally right i am afraid, we might not like it but thats the case.. the show, in its taken format, would be illegal under the new AWA, in relation to the 1951 pet act sub section 2.

the way the law was actioned, anyone selling livestock would have been liable for a frigging big fine and prosecution.. there is nothing anyone can do, or could have done, to change this, for this show, at this present time. the local council could themselves be prosecuted for evening turning a blind eye.. and yes, whilst i am pissed off to.. i am not sure if it will "help" the hobby for several hundred sh***y letters and emails turning up on one blokes desk. at the end of the day, paul martin is following the law that is dictated to him.. its not actually his fault that the law says what it does. in my, and rorys, opinion, and the opinion of our polititcal legistlation group,bombarding one individual who is, at the end of the day, only doing his job, will only serve to make future shows even harder to organise.

regardless of which "club" individual or organisation is seen to own the event, or indeed which location, the bottom line is this show they will not permit to happen as a show selling animals. unless they are insects.. who of course don't count (don't even go there!!)

again, they are actually totally within the current laws to stop this show, they themselves have been told they will be "done" for letting it happen.. sure paul martin is the name at the end of the phone, but its the government passed laws we need to be working on, not the sodding jobsworth who implements them..

anyway.. gremlin rides.. available for round britain transport for "ex-Exe-reptiles"

Nerys


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## Dan

If anyone else had *CONFIRMED* orders for the show can they please get in touch with me via e-mail.
I will be speaking to my solicitor first thing in the morning and then looking to get compensation, or at the very least my money to be re-imbursed.

You can email me at:

[email protected]

Please though folks, only let me know if you can PROVE you have lost money due to the short notice cancellation of the show.


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## CBR1100XX

Well I offer my support to Jason and Nick and I also feel for the guys who really are set to lose a lot of money due to this council decision. I am small fry with what I was selling but still had plans for the cash. I can only imagine the amounts some will lose.

I hope we can all show are feelings to the council but in a professional manner maybe with enough support they may reconsider, if not lets hassle them all the same.


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## www.exreptile.com

The show is not, and will not be, back on.



darkdan99 said:


> This was sent at 21.36
> 
> And this at 21.57
> 
> 
> IS it good news?
> 
> the mails were sent as a group mail to all the members.


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## darkdan99

Ok, thanks for confirming that


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## Emz118

I really don't understand.... I thought the law meant that private breeders can sell at shows but businesses can't? 

Can anyone explain further?

Gutted!


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## CBR1100XX

Nerys said:


> trust me guys.. ALL the avenues that could be explored were done earlier.. we had a team on the phones for 3 hours this afternoon to councils, regional councils, chris newman, people checking out legislation and defras angle on things..
> 
> there is NO chance.. they have it totally right i am afraid, we might not like it but thats the case.. the show, in its taken format, would be illegal under the new AWA, in relation to the 1951 pet act sub section 2.
> 
> the way the law was actioned, anyone selling livestock would have been liable for a frigging big fine and prosecution.. there is nothing anyone can do, or could have done, to change this, for this show, at this present time. the local council could themselves be prosecuted for evening turning a blind eye.. and yes, whilst i am pissed off to.. i am not sure if it will "help" the hobby for several hundred shitty letters and emails turning up on one blokes desk. at the end of the day, paul martin is following the law that is dictated to him.. its not actually his fault that the law says what it does. in my, and rorys, opinion, and the opinion of our polititcal legistlation group,bombarding one individual who is, at the end of the day, only doing his job, will only serve to make future shows even harder to organise.
> 
> regardless of which "club" individual or organisation is seen to own the event, or indeed which location, the bottom line is this show they will not permit to happen as a show selling animals. unless they are insects.. who of course don't count (don't even go there!!)
> 
> again, they are actually totally within the current laws to stop this show, they themselves have been told they will be "done" for letting it happen.. sure paul martin is the name at the end of the phone, but its the government passed laws we need to be working on, not the sodding jobsworth who implements them..
> 
> anyway.. gremlin rides.. available for round britain transport for "ex-Exe-reptiles"
> 
> Nerys


Does this mean an end to selling at any show now.??


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## Athravan

My query is... did the council really only find out about it today? It has not been kept quiet has it? I've seen plenty of advertising going back quite a few months...

Couldn't the council have put their foot down a few weeks ago? Or a month ago? Why leave it till 2 days in advance? I do not blame the council for doing their job, if that is indeed the case... but... it would have been a lot easier for people to adjust if they had done it a bit sooner, or been clearer from the start.


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## peaches

Really doesn't make sense to me either why one show can go ahead and not another????


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## Dan

Nerys said:


> trust me guys.. ALL the avenues that could be explored were done earlier.. we had a team on the phones for 3 hours this afternoon to councils, regional councils, chris newman, people checking out legislation and defras angle on things..
> 
> there is NO chance.. they have it totally right i am afraid, we might not like it but thats the case.. the show, in its taken format, would be illegal under the new AWA, in relation to the 1951 pet act sub section 2.
> 
> the way the law was actioned, anyone selling livestock would have been liable for a frigging big fine and prosecution.. there is nothing anyone can do, or could have done, to change this, for this show, at this present time. the local council could themselves be prosecuted for evening turning a blind eye.. and yes, whilst i am pissed off to.. i am not sure if it will "help" the hobby for several hundred shitty letters and emails turning up on one blokes desk. at the end of the day, paul martin is following the law that is dictated to him.. its not actually his fault that the law says what it does. in my, and rorys, opinion, and the opinion of our polititcal legistlation group,bombarding one individual who is, at the end of the day, only doing his job, will only serve to make future shows even harder to organise.
> 
> regardless of which "club" individual or organisation is seen to own the event, or indeed which location, the bottom line is this show they will not permit to happen as a show selling animals. unless they are insects.. who of course don't count (don't even go there!!)
> 
> again, they are actually totally within the current laws to stop this show, they themselves have been told they will be "done" for letting it happen.. sure paul martin is the name at the end of the phone, but its the government passed laws we need to be working on, not the sodding jobsworth who implements them..
> 
> anyway.. gremlin rides.. available for round britain transport for "ex-Exe-reptiles"
> 
> Nerys


While i have *NO* doubt what you are saying is correct, the simple fact is that the council informed Jason et al that they WERE ALLOWED to hold the show and have decided 48hrs before the event that it is no longer allowed.
For THAT reason i will be seeking compensation. The fact the council is incompetent is not my problem and certainly will not be strong enough to hold up in court.


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## Nerys

well.. one of the problems comes down to what is or is not a recognised club... 

people like EARC, BRAS, IHS.. are.. others.. are not. its a question of legal interpretation and no council wants to be the first one to be fisted under the awa..

N


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## SiUK

Its exactly what Paul said a few weeks ago, his predictions were true


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## wohic

the venue and so the govening council was only changed about a week ago.... so they would only have been aware in the last few days. I am one of the people who was on the phone to Mr martin today, it all really that last minute.


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## Nerys

julia hon, pm me your number... or text to the gremlin phone.. god knows where i put the last one i had stored!

N


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## darkdan99

ah so the move means new council...But surely if it is ok in one, then it is ok in another...


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## ukgeckos

Can someone have a BBQ show and tell at there house and then take over the street with tables! Would be loads of fun!!!


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## darkdan99

Thats a good idea, and large fields in the area? if lots of people were to turn up to an "un-organised" event, with no owner/proffit maker then its ok right?


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## Nerys

trouble is, under the awa, in conjunction with the 1951 act, the council are legally right... when the penny dropped is besides the point. what is the point is they have it by the short and curlys.. 

tbh, sueing them, is not going to hold water. legally they are in the right, and arguements like that go badly in court.

N


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## Fixx

"*2 Pets not to be sold in streets, etc 
*If any person carries on a business of selling animals as pets in any part of a street or public place, [or] at a stall or barrow in a market, he shall be guilty of an offence."

This is the part of the 1951 Pet Animals Act that has ballsed things up I think. So even an unorganised street fair would still get traders closed down and arrested.


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## argentine_boa

Lets all do it in a back garden then :lol2:


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## Nerys

darkdan99 said:


> Thats a good idea, and large fields in the area? if lots of people were to turn up to an "un-organised" event, with no owner/proffit maker then its ok right?


no, because that would be considered a pet fair, and they would do you for that too.

nor can you hold it on private property.. yeah we checked that too..

(come ON guys.. we had people on this all afternoon, do you not think if there was an angle we would have found it?)

N


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## darkdan99

Public place is the key. 

Possibly a day membership to a society is in order...thats how PRAS, ERAS, BHS, etc get away with it


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## Emz118

Argh! I don't get it!!! 

I understood that shows where only private breeders were selling could go ahead without licences? 

How come this one can't?


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## darkdan99

Nerys said:


> no, because that would be considered a pet fair, and they would do you for that too.
> 
> nor can you hold it on private property.. yeah we checked that too..
> 
> (come ON guys.. we had people on this all afternoon, do you not think if there was an angle we would have found it?)
> 
> N


ok, fair enough...just throwing ideas around.


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## Dan

Nerys said:


> tbh, sueing them, is not going to hold water. legally they are in the right, and arguements like that go badly in court.
> 
> N


I have a hefty bill to be paid, someone will be paying it.

If the council have confirmed the show is allowed to be carried out (and therefore legal) and then changed their mind 48hrs before the event then that shows incompetence - which is the direction i will likely be taking.

I will know more after 9am when i speak to my solicitor.


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## t-bo

darkdan99 said:


> Thats a good idea, and large fields in the area? if lots of people were to turn up to an "un-organised" event, with no owner/proffit maker then its ok right?


Sounds like the good old days of illegal raves!! (showing my age) 

Gutted for all of you that were planning to go and have lost money, this sort of thing doesnt bode well for the future of reptile shows in the UK.


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## Fangio

Ssthisto said:


> Jason owns a pet shop.
> 
> That might be enough for the council - in a loophole-seeking mode - to slap down the entire show, whether he sold livestock there or not. Because it's organised by a business owner.... It's the same technicality that would have gotten the Manchester show shut down.
> 
> It's amazing how many people ignored this thread... which quite neatly predicted that exactly this sort of thing could happen.


Ah ok that doesn't help things. I guess people ignored it because other shows were continuing as normal. They may know better now.


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## Fangio

reticulatus said:


> I have a hefty bill to be paid, someone will be paying it.
> 
> If the council have confirmed the show is allowed to be carried out (and therefore legal) and then changed their mind 48hrs before the event then that shows incompetence - which is the direction i will likely be taking.
> 
> I will know more after 9am when i speak to my solicitor.


Good luck mate, let us know how things progress.


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## argentine_boa

reticulatus said:


> I have a hefty bill to be paid, someone will be paying it.
> 
> If the council have confirmed the show is allowed to be carried out (and therefore legal) and then changed their mind 48hrs before the event then that shows incompetence - which is the direction i will likely be taking.
> 
> I will know more after 9am when i speak to my solicitor.


too true. That is wrong how they say it is allowed to go on as planned then change their mind last minute so we cannot do anything about it.


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## Fangio

darkdan99 said:


> Public place is the key.
> 
> Possibly a day membership to a society is in order...thats how PRAS, ERAS, BHS, etc get away with it


Nope ERAC states "open to all members and non-members alike"


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## Ssthisto

Emz118 said:


> Argh! I don't get it!!!
> 
> I understood that shows where only private breeders were selling could go ahead without licences?
> 
> How come this one can't?


Because the organiser was a pet shop licence holder.

That technicality screws the pooch.


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## darkdan99

Fangio said:


> Nope ERAC states "open to all members and non-members alike"


hmm :s

So what is the official reason that martin gave?


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## Ssthisto

darkdan99 said:


> hmm :s
> 
> So what is the official reason that martin gave?


I suspect it's the "Selling animals in the course of a business in a public place" - which is against the 1951 Pet Animals Act law.

The organiser is a pet shop license owner, so selling animals is potentially in the course of a business. If people at his event sell animals, it might legally be considered the same thing as if HE was selling the animals - in a public place, in the course of business. Which is against the law. 

Hertz Donut.


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## Fangio

Is there any way of obtaining a pet shop license to cover a day event in a public place or private person's home? (with a mansion LOL)


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## sparkle

Absolute nightmare.. I wasnt going to manage but im so sorry for everyone that has lost out and been upset by all this


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## brittone05

Jason, Nick - I am really sorryt he show won't go ahead as planned after all the hard work you and so many others have put into organising it 

I hoep this won't put you off trying it again next year maybe with a new look on things?

I **think** the whole council things cancelling such short notice is due to the venue changing and this new venue falling under a different distric council office (although I am sure someone will tell me if this is incorrect)

With that light, I doubt very much that a legal battle would uphold because the previous council managing the event cannot be held responsible for the cancellation due to it running through a different office who have complied with the normal councils 7-10 working days for decision to be made. (that is how long our concil allows for a decision to be made anyways lol)


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## Athravan

If it was simply down to the organiser holding a pet shop license surely it would be simple enough for him to say, fine.. I've got nothing to do with it.. and hand it over to someone else without a pet shop license.


----------



## wohic

to be honest guys, at this late stage, i think we are flogging a dead horse. its all a pain, but nothing is going to change the councils minds.

perhaps well worded letters to mps, or exmouth council may be ok, but please no abuse, when next year comes around perhaps a 'show' will be planned and we will want the council on side.


----------



## Emz118

I know nothing will change their minds, and that's gutting, but I can deal with that.

I just wanna know the reason why it has been cancelled. If they're all likely to be cancelled in the future, we're gonna have to seperate all the geckos because we won't be able to sell the babies.


----------



## velvet_gecko

wohic said:


> to be honest guys, at this late stage, i think we are flogging a dead horse. its all a pain, but nothing is going to change the councils minds.
> 
> perhaps well worded letters to mps, or exmouth council may be ok, but please no abuse, when next year comes around perhaps a 'show' will be planned and we will want the council on side.


 
True...

But how long before you can't breed as a hobby due to having to keep all offspring?
They are already on about stopping internet sales too!


----------



## wohic

i find it ironic that koi carp and racing pigeons are exempt from all these rulings, i guess lots of mps' own them 

I cant answer your question Emz, the AWB seems so loosly worded that who knows?
ok so the pet animals act says no but the Defra site says if not in the course of a buisness its ok.

its all a bit confusing.


----------



## wohic

The hobby, as has been said on countless occasions, needs to pull together, needs to lobby mps for straight answers, and needs to stand up and be counted.

its a slippery slope.


----------



## Sugababe6275

yeh future doesnt look to promising 
sympathy to all the organisers, i wasnt before having a moan at jason was annoyed at the people who cancelled it, good luck for the future shows guys!!


----------



## WeThePeople

Thats really bad news, its just another nail in the UK show coffin really, Manchester, Blackpool and now this. Really bad news 

Hopefully something big will happen next year : victory::no1:


----------



## tarantulabarn

They are already on about stopping internet sales too![/quote]

Yeah right!! all they will end up doing is create a black market, buy a pay as you go internet phone and run it on there


----------



## njp

No way

Sorry to hear that but nothing anybody can do.


----------



## TBUK

This is the email I got from them today that started it all off  


Exeter Reptile Expo - 18th August 2007 - Plymouth University - Rolle College​ 
Dear Mr Edworthy

I understand that you are intending to hold an event called "The Exeter Reptile Expo" on the 18th August 2007 at Rolle College, Exmouth.

It is evident from advertising material on the organisers web site www.exreptile.com
and the connected South West Reptilian Society http://www.exreptile.com/swrspage.html , that exhibitors from both UK and abroad are coming to this show with the intention of making sales.


It is this councils view that the event proposed would expose any vendor or exhibitor to prosecution under Section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951 Act (as amended) if any live vertebrate or other animals are sold.
We will also be looking closely to see if you, as the organiser, fail to comply with the law.

In addition the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 provides that alligators, caymans and certain lizards and snakes may not be kept in East Devon without a licence issued by this authority. No such application has been received by us in connection with this event.

Officers from this council are authorised under the Pet Animals Act to take evidence and instigate legal proceedings against offenders and it is likely that we will seek to attend the event in order to enforce the law.

If this event is to be staged, you must ensure that live animals are only exhibited and that no sales of vertebrates or other animals are made by anyone.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation, but obviously if you need more information, please contact me.

yours faithfully

Paul Martin

Paul Martin
Environmental Health Manager
(Commercial & Administration)
Directorate of Communities
East Devon District Council
Knowle, Station Road
Sidmouth, Devon - EX10 8HL
Tel: 01395 517455
Fax: 01395517407
e-mail : [email protected]
(Internal ext. 2655)


----------



## darkdan99

the problem is, too many people are buying and selling, so they need to crack down on it. 

There are also too many people making obsene amounts of money from breeding, and the govenment want tax. 

because of these people shows are seen as business' etc.

I had one member telling me of their plans to report another member because she was selling home bred stuff and owns a shop...


----------



## Dan

WeThePeople said:


> Thats really bad news, its just another nail in the UK show coffin really, Manchester, Blackpool and now this. Really bad news


Bad news would be the event being stopped at the application stage.

Unfortunately however :

130 tables being booked (£1560)
Animals being bought for the show (upwards of £5000)
Animal transport costs (upwards of £2000)
Loss of animal sales at the show (upwards of £5000)
Loss of food sales in the area (upwards of £2000)
Loss of petrol sales in the area (upwards of £5000)

These are just figures off the top of my head but there *WILL* be more and are only based on 1-200 people turning up. Still these figures add up to over £20,000 of money now not changing hands.

SO personally while i understand the sentiment, some how i think "bad news" doesn't even come close to describing it.


----------



## darkdan99

[QUOTE="exreptile.com/swrs]One-day membership is available to the South West Reptilian Society upon entrance to the hall, and is covered by your entrance fee. Membership cards will be given to everyone entering the hall.[/QUOTE]

Thats your loop hole, section 2 clearly states PUBLIC, and this is a members only affair.


----------



## tokay

Jason and Nick so sorry to hear about this dudes , i know you guys busted a gut and more to get this show off the ground , damn council and these stupid bull [email protected] laws is killing the uk herp hobby , keep your chins up ,its no bodies fault but the council and the crappy goverment.

we should all up sticks and move to america.....land of the monthly herp shows


----------



## TBUK

darkdan99 said:


> Thats your loop hole, section 2 clearly states PUBLIC, and this is a members only affair.


We tried that all afternoon mate but they are using some bird fair that lost a high court case for doing the same and as the bird fair lost a court would look at us as the same thing


----------



## darkdan99

fair enough...I really should listen when im told that ALL avenues have been tried. 

no offence intended by my continual guesses and ideas, im sure you have done everything you can. 

Is it not possible to change it to "no sales" and anyone wishing to buy has to do so outside of the premisis...Just pop outside to sell, etc. 

THat would be a real pain, but u could have all exits open etc and it would save canceling it all. Surely they cannot do anything if no money changes hands inside the building?


----------



## AZUK

Could people view the animals at the venue then complete any transaction elsewhere? for instance in their car........ silly I know but Drug dealers do it (apparently):grin1:

P.s. _Gutted for you Jason and nic cant imagine how you feel right now_


----------



## CBR1100XX

AZUK said:


> Could people view the animals at the venue then complete any transaction elsewhere? for instance in their car........ silly I know but Drug dealers do it (apparently):grin1:
> 
> P.s. _Gutted for you Jason and nic cant imagine how you feel right now_


Yeah I don't mind selling in my car, might even hire a coach especially:smile:


----------



## jav07

_One-day membership is available to the South West Reptilian Society upon entrance to the hall, and is covered by your entrance fee. Membership cards will be given to everyone entering the hall._

_were the proceeds going to the society or the organisers_


----------



## SSamm

just got in from work, such a let down, shame really, was looking forward it, dont be harsh on yurselves guys, not your fault!!


----------



## TBUK

There is something about that too sadly can remember what was said about it will find out tomorrow.
The only way I could think of around it is to do it on a ship just over 3 miles off the cost


----------



## purejurrasic

This is a very sad state of affairs, and I understand that many of us will be left with animals that we were hopeing to find new homes for.

I am also VERY sure that Jason, and everyone else involved have looked any and all possibilities taking into account the time left. The effort they showed in finding a new venue at such short notice is evidence of this.

I dont know the individual circumstances of the organisers regarding pet shop licences etc, but I do know that 'breeders meetings' ie gatherings of breeders who are disposing of surplus animals from breeding DO NOT need to licenced. The organisers at BRAS had this confirmed themselves.

Of course, part of that is to what extent 'breeders' is taken.  Are they those who have one or two babies, those who have large collections and have a large number of babies due to natural breeding patterns, or indeed does it include those who buy in stock to resell, possibly negating the need for any licence 

All I can say to Jason and the others, thanks for trying your best guys, you got my support, for what its worth, in trying to get next years event sorted.


----------



## darkdan99

that isnt such a bad idea...how much is a ferry to hire


----------



## purejurrasic

Selling from the back of cars and the like is hardly gona do anything for the image of the hobby !


----------



## wohic

darkdan99 said:


> that isnt such a bad idea...how much is a ferry to hire


 
'all aboard the skylark !!!'



I guess i am showing my age now.


----------



## TBUK

darkdan99 said:


> that isnt such a bad idea...how much is a ferry to hire


Its a very good idea but im sure a ferry for a day would cost a bomb although with a ferry you would get a lot of people on and theres loads of parking :lol2:


----------



## AZUK

purejurrasic said:


> Selling from the back of cars and the like is hardly gona do anything for the image of the hobby !


desperate times calls for desperate measures !!!!!!!

I agree though. All said and done this is another nail in the hobbies coffin.


----------



## purejurrasic

What about holding an event just across the channel, in france. day trip crossings cant be that expensive....can they??


----------



## wohic

purejurrasic said:


> What about holding an event just across the channel, in france. day trip crossings cant be that expensive....can they??


 
lol i just suggested gurnsey as laws may be different there


----------



## CBR1100XX

purejurrasic said:


> Selling from the back of cars and the like is hardly gona do anything for the image of the hobby !


I think people are joking about the cars:lol2::lol2:


----------



## CBR1100XX

Well my next question is will Basildon be on?? will this be affected the same way or not.


----------



## TBUK

purejurrasic said:


> What about holding an event just across the channel, in france. day trip crossings cant be that expensive....can they??


France has some funny laws there not aloud much over there thats why there was a coach load of them coming to the show to buy the the things they cant have.

Dont worry Julia I know who Noah and Nelly are :lol2:


----------



## SSamm

TBUK said:


> There is something about that too sadly can remember what was said about it will find out tomorrow.
> The only way I could think of around it is to do it on a ship just over 3 miles off the cost


 
yeah, pick us up and go on a 'day trip'


----------



## wohic

TBUK said:


> France has some funny laws there not aloud much over there thats why there was a coach load of them coming to the show to buy the the things they cant have.
> 
> Dont worry Julia I know who Noah and Nelly are :lol2:


yay you are old as well


----------



## TBUK

wohic said:


> yay you are old as well


yep I am getting on a bit now :lol2:


----------



## greenlikegecko

am young :smile: are the laws the same in scotland? y dont you all com up here for your meet?


----------



## cornmorphs

greenlikegecko said:


> am young :smile: are the laws the same in scotland? y dont you all com up here for your meet?


thats actually not as bad an idea as it sounds.. i dont think there is anything really is there?


----------



## greenlikegecko

i know most laws r passed in scottish parlement after there passed down there :smile: would be cool if the scottish members could come too


----------



## spider_mad

It always comes down to one little a**hole who doesnt agree with things like this who ruin it for all. Not to worry there is always Hamm show


----------



## asm1006

What a bummer!
Just got up and got a PM regarding this-shame as well looking forward to it. 
As someone else said it reminds me of the good old rave days-if the Government are against something then they will find a way to stop you. However, as the rave scene proved it just made it go underground and it gained even more interest from ravers because it was illegal. 
Surely, these shows help promote good husbandry and the chance to speak to others to ensure our herps are well cared for. The law is an ass, and we need to pull together constructively not abusively to promote our hobby. 
Really gutted.
Thanks to all concerned to try and save the day, not your your fault.
My heart goes out to those who were selling or are unaware of the event being cancelled.
Chins up peeps.


----------



## Jinx

Ive just come into work this morning and found this out.

I just cannot believe it. The only thing in the whole year i look forward too. it's bloody typical. I was so looking forward to meeting everyone.
Bloody councel!:2wallbang:
I feel sorry for the people in europe who have set off already, and for everyone's plans. I know most people were relying on this show more than me.
I was planning to sell some stuff and buy some, im gutted is just not the right phrase. 


Im so so sorry jason!


----------



## Jinx

spider_mad said:


> It always comes down to one little a**hole who doesnt agree with things like this who ruin it for all. Not to worry there is always Hamm show


 
which i cant eggt to or afford to do so.
The exeter show was the only place i can get to. (well being in devon, did'nt matter if it was in exmouth toward the end)

Looks like no shows for me EVER, to sell or buy in future.

ive had a nice cry about this. i really was looking forward to it so much.

i agree with the a**hole statement though!


----------



## Emz118

I still don't fully understand! 

I don't get how other shows are ok, but this one isn't. 

Bloody Devon!!!


----------



## l1zardchick

I am really really upset was sooo looking forward to going!!!

Its not anyones fault but the bloody council !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sparkle

I have emailed FBH to check on Scottish legislation, howeverI have a feeling it is very similar to English law... there is maybe some loopholes so fingers crossed.


----------



## gaz

lets be honest we live in a country in which officialdom looks on everything in a superbly negative manner,while in Europe and the USA such events are held up as being great days for the town in question and of benefit to all and sundry.
regards from a pissed off gaz


----------



## rockkeeper

get a petion up complaining to council,mp


----------



## SSamm

a couple of the coachs that were coming over from germany, have been called allready and sent back... i wonder how many will make the full trip!


----------



## marthaMoo

Thats really sad 

Have you tried Newton Abbot race course?
I know they have some sort of bug show that goes on there..lol 

Also Dawlish lesure centre has a bigish hall and I know they hold animal shows there cat/chickens/ducks/small animals. 

Aly


----------



## charliet

TBUK said:


> There is something about that too sadly can remember what was said about it will find out tomorrow.
> The only way I could think of around it is to do it on a ship just over 3 miles off the cost


Half of the Napoli is still off the Branscombe coast ... that's only 15 miles or so from Exmouth :hmm:

But technically, it's a shipwreck:lol2:, and closer than 3 miles off


----------



## ukgeckos

So annoyed about this!!! Ahhh!

I have to go down to exeter anyways for a house viewing so if anyone wants geckos dropped off on the way from wales then pm me!


----------



## Jinx

Im on a total downer at work now.
My week was bad enough as i keep getting bad news and ive been quite depressed. The show was my thing to look forward to.
it's pish.


----------



## ratboy

darkdan99 said:


> that isnt such a bad idea...how much is a ferry to hire


It would be easier, and cheaper, to hire a venue in Calais and book Nerys and ReptileTaxi for the day to transport everything back.


----------



## babyburm

thats well ............ i cant thinks of a word to descride how much that p****s me off!!!:2wallbang: england sucks!!!! we sould have a big european goverment, and vote for germany, they would let us do it, 
and the other day we took a few of our snakes down to our village fair, small ones, everyone thought it was a brilliant idea, (as we are in a realy small vilage) but pur local council just got a complaint from torbay council!!:bash: but our council just laughed at them, they we at the fair, and saw our set up, they all thought it was wicked!! we even had hand sanitiser for peeps to wash there hand, incase of salmonela!!

and hoo i serously love england, it just the crap govermant, lets overthrough them, blow up parliment like guy fawkes, he had the right idea, :lol2:

i feel personally gutted, cant even think how gutted, nick and jason are!!!


----------



## babyburm

purejurrasic said:


> What about holding an event just across the channel, in france. day trip crossings cant be that expensive....can they??


france are worse than us, and thats hard to be!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AZUK

Just thinking............. If the Germans had won world war two we would techincally all be Germans and the exeter show could go on !! we could also eat lots of sausage, leave towels on sun loungers and the women amongst us would never have to shave their arm pits again ! just a thought :grin1:


----------



## TBUK

:hmm:Well with all the phone calls and email i've made and had there seems to be one name that keeps popping up and trying to put it all together is starting to look as if there might be a snake in the grass :-x


----------



## PSGeckos

Oh blooming gutted!!

Just fudged our passports for Hamm too, so thats a double blow!!

Blooming toff's in suits that have nothing better to do than stop people doing fun stuff! No wonder society is the way it is today, we're not allowed to do anything!

Feel mega sorry for the organisers, you guys must be gutted, don't blame yourself, just some tw**s in suits!

Agreed we should organise an underground midnight rep show somewhere and just not advertise it, but eveyone just pm or call everyone like the old raves!!


----------



## babyburm

TBUK said:


> :hmm:Well with all the phone calls and email i've made and had there seems to be one name that keeps popping up and trying to put it all together is starting to look as if there might be a snake in the grass :-x


and whos that jason?


----------



## peaches

TBUK said:


> :hmm:Well with all the phone calls and email i've made and had there seems to be one name that keeps popping up and trying to put it all together is starting to look as if there might be a snake in the grass :-x


Oh good god, how awful


----------



## wozza_t

Gutted.......was planning on taking my little boy! 


THIS SHOULD NO WAY EVER NEVER BE RELATED TO NICK OR JASON! THEY HAVE DONE EVERYTHING IN THERE POWERS TO KEEP THIS EXPO GOING!

THANKS FOR TRYING THO LADS.


----------



## asm1006

PSGeckos said:


> Oh blooming gutted!!
> 
> Just fudged our passports for Hamm too, so thats a double blow!!
> 
> Blooming toff's in suits that have nothing better to do than stop people doing fun stuff! No wonder society is the way it is today, we're not allowed to do anything!
> 
> Feel mega sorry for the organisers, you guys must be gutted, don't blame yourself, just some tw**s in suits!
> 
> Agreed we should organise an underground midnight rep show somewhere and just not advertise it, but eveyone just pm or call everyone like the old raves!!


 yeah do u remember..call this number....now call that number for whatever rave there was on? Or info in a phonebox:grin1:


----------



## pixie_bex

just seen a post in the lizard section about going to the show... Would it be a good idea to put a sticky up in each section just for today and tomorrow. lock it so it cant be posted on just telling people its been canceled? I dont normally come in this but myself so it may be easy for people to miss it..

Just an idea 
xx


----------



## tigger79

Have put in snakes,lizards,amphibians, torts n spiders section, just need a mod to lock n sticky them all.


----------



## DraigGochHerp

Just read this and I'm totally gutted for Nick & Jason and everyone else who has made arrangements or had expectations of great things this weekend (me included). It does prove that the law is an ass in this country for something like this to be cancelled so late in the day. OK the council are correct, it is against the law, but it was against the law from day one so why did it take a shift to Exmouth Council's jurisdiction to uncover this? Foot and mouth strikes the reptile community!:bash:


----------



## Miranda

Urghhhh....
It would be my first show!!!
Oh this is not good!!!! ;( ohh....
Im gutted!


----------



## Dan

After taking legal advice this morning can i just re-iterate one of my previous posts:

*IF YOU HAVE LOST MONEY AS A RESULT OF THE SHOW BEING CANCELLED PLEASE CONTACT ME AT THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS AS WE WILL BE SEEKING COMPENSATION.*

Please note, Jason has been informed of my course of action and fully supports anyone requiring compensation.

You can contact me at:
[email protected]


----------



## Andy

TBUK said:


> :hmm:Well with all the phone calls and email i've made and had there seems to be one name that keeps popping up and trying to put it all together is starting to look as if there might be a snake in the grass :-x


they would be a very unpopular person. :bash:


----------



## Miranda

I hope the peolpe who organise it are ok. I am gutted, i was so looking froward to this!!!! Snakes are my passion!!! 
Andnow its cancelled, i ams o pissed off!


----------



## bribrian

TBUK said:


> :hmm:Well with all the phone calls and email i've made and had there seems to be one name that keeps popping up and trying to put it all together is starting to look as if there might be a snake in the grass :-x


Now that would make for interesting reading.............


----------



## SiUK

bribrian said:


> Now that would make for interesting reading.............


yeh I want to know name and shame I say


----------



## DOVEY

asm1006 said:


> yeah do u remember..call this number....now call that number for whatever rave there was on? Or info in a phonebox:grin1:


illegal raves still go on mate... i been to quite a few

must admit aint a big fan, rather go to clubs

but the "ring this number......... ring back at 11...... now ring this number"

still happening lads


----------



## SiUK

we used to go to raves in fields and on beaches still do sometimes


----------



## TBUK

SiUK said:


> yeh I want to know name and shame I say


Mate if I did say the name I keep hearing my ass would be up in court before you could say "REPTILE SHOWS" 

So did anyone email Mr Martin? Has he replyed?


----------



## SiUK

TBUK said:


> Mate if I did say the name I keep hearing my ass would be up in court before you could say "REPTILE SHOWS"
> 
> So did anyone email Mr Martin? Has he replyed?


you can PM me it if you want, sorry that it went tits up mate, I know how hard you tried, dont be hard on yourself though because it couldnt be helped


----------



## Fixx

TBUK said:


> Mate if I did say the name I keep hearing my ass would be up in court before you could say "REPTILE SHOWS"


Is it someone within the hobby?

I love 20 questions :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## SiUK

Fixx said:


> Is it someone within the hobby?
> 
> I love 20 questions :Na_Na_Na_Na:


are they male or female?


----------



## TBUK

Just a quike one if there are anyone around the Exmouth area tomorrow why not pop into Exmouth reptiles I think they might have a few interesting things up there. I think the germans and a few others might be going there for the day


----------



## SiUK

I was thinking about maybe going to the DPS exotics tommorow if it was open but I might pop down there instead


----------



## argentine_boa

I decided to go to Plymouth today instead of going to a cancelled show. We went into two by two and came out with a lovely albino burm. God I hate reptile shops, I always end up coming out with something, can't help it.


----------



## AZUK

TBUK said:


> Just a quike one if there are anyone around the Exmouth area tomorrow why not pop into Exmouth reptiles I think they might have a few interesting things up there. I think the germans and a few others might be going there for the day


this could be construed in two ways.
1. people are going there to meet and sell
or
2. someone within the shop is responsible for resent events and the shop will be full of rather pissed off herpers (including the Germans)
or am I just being thick ?


----------



## SiUK

AZUK said:


> or am I just being thick ?


 
Yes :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


----------



## Jinx

TBUK said:


> Mate if I did say the name I keep hearing my ass would be up in court before you could say "REPTILE SHOWS"
> 
> So did anyone email Mr Martin? Has he replyed?


 
I emailed very early this morning, no reply yet and i dont dexpect one either. My email was short and sweet and a bit sarcastic. But contained no cursing. I was a good girl.


whats this about the germans in exmouth?


----------



## Lostcorn

First let me say , although I was not going to attend I am very sorry to hear that this show has been cancelled.
I am amazed at the amount of reaction there has been to the news , 18 pages in a couple of days.
When the Blackpool and Manchester shows were cancelled there was very little response from forum members and the IHS was blamed for the cancellation of the manchester show.
Just goes to show how big the north/south divide is in our hobby.

I just hope that the shows organised by organisations such as the IHS are allowed to continue , if not what then for our hobby? Particularly if internet advertising is banned as well

regards

John


----------



## jav07

just found this on another site
News Service 

17 August 2007 


EXPO COULD HAVE GONE AHEAD IF NO ANIMALS WERE SOLD 

Council did not force closure of reptile show 

EAST Devon District Council today moved fast to counter claims that its officers had forced the cancellation of the Exeter Reptile Expo 2007. 
A Council spokesman said: “At no time did we seek to ban the show. We simply made it clear to the event organisers that reptiles and other animals should not be offered for sale, as this could breach Section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951. 
“The Act seeks to ensure that animals are bought and sold only in humane and regulated conditions. The organisers of Expo 2007 were advised that the show could go ahead if the animals were exhibited but not sold”. 
Event moved from Exeter 
The event had been moved from its original venue in Exeter and was to have been staged at the Rolle Campus in Exmouth on Saturday 18 August. 
The show’s organisers did not notify the Council that the event was to take place, but Environmental Health Officers learned late on Tuesday 14 August from Exeter City Council that the South Western Reptilian Society were intending to hold a reptile show at Rolle College. 
It was clear from advertising on their website that reptiles and other animals were to be offered for sale at the event. 
Liable to prosecution 
The Council took a view that vendors at the show could expose themselves to prosecution under the Pet Animals Act 1951. We advised the organiser that if the event was to be staged, live animals must only be exhibited and no sales should take place. 


Both the expo organisers and the owners of the venue were advised of EDDC’s view by early morning on Thursday 16 August. They were also advised that officers of the council were likely to attend the event to ensure no illegal sales took place. 
The Government intends to legislate to further regulate pet fairs in the interests of animal welfare. Until that happens, Councils work with the powers available in existing legislation. 

Ends 

For information, please contact: 
Nick Stephen, Communications Officer on 01395 517559 
East Devon District Council, Knowle, Sidmouth, Devon EX10 8HL 
www.eastdevon.gov.uk


----------



## Ssthisto

And the sad thing is that the Pet Animals Act allows for sales of livestock at hobbyist shows... and one would assume that a show organised by a club like the Southwestern Reptilian Society would be a hobbyist show. Guess not.


----------



## Jinx

Even if the show went ahead and you could'nt buy or sell. I would'nt go. I want to sell and i was intending to buy.
If i want to go see some reptiles i'll go to my reptile room or a pet shop. Im not into rare morphs like other people, so going would be pointless.
Apart from to meet peeps from here, theres no other reason for me to get a lift to exmouth if it went ahead in that way.
and i should think alot of other people would'nt go as they were planning to sell and buy, so it may have been not much of a show anyway by that point.


----------



## jav07

Ssthisto said:


> And the sad thing is that the Pet Animals Act allows for sales of livestock at hobbyist shows... and one would assume that a show organised by a club like the Southwestern Reptilian Society would be a hobbyist show. Guess not.


was there any mention of the society being envolved before the second venue was found.


----------



## Kooli

how gutting. 
that's just awful


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## tigger79

Well i have had a bog standard reply from an email i sent refering me to the press release as stated above, but it does state if i want any more info to email back

so i have and in this one i have asked about how this will effect future shows, so hopefully this can be sorted so that ERE 2008 can run smoothly.


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## Nerys

Ssthisto said:


> And the sad thing is that the Pet Animals Act allows for sales of livestock at hobbyist shows... and one would assume that a show organised by a club like the Southwestern Reptilian Society would be a hobbyist show. Guess not.


the trouble is that SRS is not an active enough club to gain recognition status by the powers that be at the moment.

the IHS, EARC, BRAS, PRAS etc have history and many members.. and can show they are active societies..

maybe this is the time, that we should all be thinking, well if we supported our local clubs more, then it will not be a problem in the future.

if SRS had many members going to regular meetings and activites, and with a recognised structure and so on then the council would have viewed it differently, as it was, it could be considered, and was, considered that SRS was more a "virtual society" than a real life living breathing active one.. its not knocking SRS, but thats just the way it was seen. 

N


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## wohic

I was chatting last night and saying it would be good if we had a 'south west' reptile society that covered devon, somerset, south wales etc
........ and have say , 3 big meetings a year among the members, a proper meeting with minutes taken etc, we could bring excess breeding stock to swap with othe members and make a social day of it.



I just get the feeling there would be little interest or support


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## Nerys

i know, its been expressed by others in this thread aleady, but the apathy out there is appalling tbh.. 95% of the time people just cannot be arsed, and 95% of the people will not stand up and be counted consistently.. 

are we reaping what we have sown? we are all happy to commit hours to banging away online, but how many of us get off our backsides in "real life" and make an effort?

N


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## CBR1100XX

Would it not be better to have IHS or whoever involved with Exeter, or is that a no no. I just think some of the shows I have had to join to be a member before going have not been snitch on Exeter last year and Exeter would have been even bigger this year.

Surely if IHS shows don't have probs then why are we not under one umbrella rather than all these little clubs.

politics I suppose


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## purejurrasic

Comments about apathy are so true.

My own society has been around for 25 years, got over 100 members and growing, but all the public displays we do are done by the same old people, with the odd exception.

I am often refered to as a*se licking when I work with the rspca, but it all comes back in the end. Everyone in the hobby needs to relise this and protect it, or it will just be outlawed.

From what I have seen though, this event was sailing close to the wind with regard to hobbyist breeders and dealers/traders, but I could just be misunderstanding things, but thats not the real issue here.

Its the interpretation and application of the law thats in question, but I dont profess to know all the details, so cant comment, but I am sure the guys would have tried everything to overcome it in the short time they had.


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## Markgrieves

Just read through this thread after a last minute check on any news before i go out the door.
Gutted to read through it and find out that the show is cancelled.

Neither of the organisers can be blamed for this, no matter how many were involved in the organising.
It appears from the posts that they have all the support of the Forum Members, which is a good.

As far as EDDC are concerned, they are a strict council, for all planning and regulation approvals and they close all loop holes and back doors. I know.
They really are "by the book" which for the sake of the organisers, is a blessing, as far as the law and prosecution are concerned, because EDDC have prevented the sale of animals and arrest.
As far as sellers are concerned, i cant imagine the loss you would have suffered and sympathise with you. 
The buyers and forum members have only missed a good day out in comparison. 
Snakes and other reps are still available from the sellers, just in the same way as before on here, and not at the show.
Should all sellers not still advertise on here, in there own thread, in order to still make a recovery on cost and predicted selling value?

I thought however, that the Pet Animals Act 1951, (A.1983)(amended as late) ONLY covered the sale of WILD CAUGHT animals.

You can buy any kind of animal in the paper and free adds!!

Organisers...... look into the definition of "Animals" Im sure its "wild caught" and "imported"

I may be wrong.

You have my sympathy and my support and i am grateful for your efforts and the work you have and still do.

Any date set yet for next years show??


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## gaz

Jinx said:


> I emailed very early this morning, no reply yet and i dont dexpect one either. My email was short and sweet and a bit sarcastic. But contained no cursing. I was a good girl.
> 
> your a girl??????????????
> gaz


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## wohic

gaz said:


> Jinx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I emailed very early this morning, no reply yet and i dont dexpect one either. My email was short and sweet and a bit sarcastic. But contained no cursing. I was a good girl.
> 
> your a girl??????????????
> gaz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she is and a very pretty one at that
> 
> 
> I am bored
Click to expand...


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## Jinx

wohic said:


> gaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> she is and a very pretty one at that
> 
> 
> I am bored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, im so sorry Julia! when i met you i sooo did'nt realise you were blind!!!!
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> Yes im a girl, no im not pretty!
> Boo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im bored too hun. Just finsihed the cleaning for today, and meeting a guy who's having a rankins soon. He would have been meeting me at the show.
> Looks like some people lookin for Jinx, would have gotten confused seein a girl with a badge on saying Jinx though.lol :roll:
Click to expand...


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## tigger79

well shes not blind, just confused,lets just say ya not fugly lolololololol

if ya bored julia come to mine lololololol n brings snakes.


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## gaz

wohic said:


> gaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> she is and a very pretty one at that
> 
> 
> I am bored
> 
> 
> 
> well go an polish that table with the cornsnake on it!!!:grin1:
> zag
Click to expand...


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## gaz

Jinx said:


> wohic said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, im so sorry Julia! when i met you i sooo did'nt realise you were blind!!!!
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> Yes im a girl, no im not pretty!
> Boo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im bored too hun. Just finsihed the cleaning for today, and meeting a guy who's having a rankins soon. He would have been meeting me at the show.
> Looks like some people lookin for Jinx, would have gotten confused seein a girl with a badge on saying Jinx though.lol :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> dont take much to confuzzle a gaz with a hangover!!!!:grin1:
> an Wohic...your gonna have to wait for your Norwegian blue care sheet now,suggest you pop him in the fridge till next year hehehehe
> 
> regards zag
Click to expand...


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## SiUK

Jinx said:


> wohic said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, im so sorry Julia! when i met you i sooo did'nt realise you were blind!!!!
> 
> :lol2:
> 
> Yes im a girl, no im not pretty!
> Boo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im bored too hun. Just finsihed the cleaning for today, and meeting a guy who's having a rankins soon. He would have been meeting me at the show.
> Looks like some people lookin for Jinx, would have gotten confused seein a girl with a badge on saying Jinx though.lol :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you always just post a pic of your eye, how about one of your whole face????:smile:
Click to expand...


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## Jinx

SiUK said:


> Jinx said:
> 
> 
> 
> you always just post a pic of your eye, how about one of your whole face????:smile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol, no i dont always, ive posted that pic only twice just to say boo. lol
> 
> i have posted a pic of my whole face at some point, maybe in the very first face to a name topic on here, that'd take some finding! lmao
> 
> my pics are crap anyway, and i look much worse in real life so theres no point me loading them for a likeness.
> :Na_Na_Na_Na:
Click to expand...


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## wohic

gaz said:


> wohic said:
> 
> 
> 
> well go an polish that table with the cornsnake on it!!!:grin1:
> zag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooo the cheek, its the kids play table :lol2: if its lucky it gets a cloth on.
> 
> And as for the care sheet, Mmmmmm guess I will have to wait  poor polly.
Click to expand...


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