# Getting My DWAL



## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

i am hopefully getting my DWAL....

as soon as my insurance comes through, from exotics direct,
then the vet visit, then fingercrossed

then i can start buying them,

does anyone no were to buy DWA snakes from 

thanks jamie


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

are you sure your ready, if you dont even know where to buy them from?


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

yes i am, i have i have had snakes since i woz very young, even tho i am only 18, then from the age of 16 i got me first hognose,

i belive there is a place in sheffeild but no 100% sure 

i would be greatfull, on some help, and advice wud be taking seriously

jamie


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

SiUK said:


> are you sure your ready, if you dont even know where to buy them from?


and looking at his sig, if there the only animals hes had experience with id start to get *very *worried


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

like i sed am ready now, if i make a mistake its my fault.....

i keep more its just i havent put them on me sig

when i used to live in wells (somerset)

one of my dear friends, help we with some training


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

only reason I ask mate, is because it was only a couple of months ago you were asking about a caiman, no mention of snakes.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't know how it works in your county, but here, you have to specify exactly what species you will be keeping - so you will need to know what DWA animals you will be buying specifically, in order to inform the vet, pass the inspection and receive the license.


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

i carnt member that,

plus i havnt got the space for a caimen, i have just been on the phone to my concil and i have to go to them, to do a test, and a 2 day course

and my insurance will cost 137.25 for my three snakes i put down 

Eye-lash viper
puff adder
Gaboon Viper

like ised am not 100% sure but its very tempting 

thanks for the concern


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

Have you been mentored?
Have you had alot of hook experience?


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## TW (May 1, 2007)

Walking the mile...


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

yes my friend in wells hu i used to live with, he mentored me he has kept alot of venemous snakes in the past,

i havent had alot of hook experince but when he woz mentoring me, he handed me a mangrove snake, and i seemed to be ok with that,

but none of the snakes are gunna be like that are there.
jamie


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Mate, a hognose and a mangrove aint really experience for somone who's just applied for his dwa, I'm not too judge but mr personally and others on this forum don't think your ready... Let's hope you take this judgment well, keep safe


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

glad you picked up on that dec - i thought i was the only one to see the quote


> i got my first hognose when i was 16


 or words to that effect.

a differant tact, have you ever handled (i.e using hooks, grabs etc) a venomous species of any sort? how many times? have you got any protocols in place? is your setup likely to get approved?

sorry if i'm nit picking somewhat, but there are a hell of alot of people that say they are ready but realistically aren't. i would take serious consideration before i go for dwa, and i have had experience with a large number of vipers, from puffs to adders to nasutum and _B. asper_, and a (lesser amount of) elapids, both in the wild and captivity.

even after that level of experience i would think twice about it.


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## rogersspider2007 (Apr 2, 2007)

i know im not experienced to say but i wouldnt have a gaboon viper for my first hot.


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't know you are you're friend who mentored you. plus hasn't the mangrove snake been de-registered anyway?

You don't sound at all ready. At 18 I would just concentrate on working with other species of snakes and perhaps work you're way up to giant snakes before even concdering anything else.

Plus if all you've done is phoned an insurance company and the council it means nothing. You have to look at it this way...your council dont want you to have that licence before they've even read your name and they will pick at everything to make sure you don't get one.

So you have to to know exactly what you're doing and you're knowledge has to be spot on.

Before going to that level master what you can thats not dwa, in 2 years i seriously doubt you have. Giant snakes are actually harder to keep than venemous!

though if you were posting about wanting to keep giant snakes instead of dwa animals i'd still be saying...You dont sound ready..and I dont even know you so yes that is worrying! lol :whip:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

bluejen - a "giant snake" such as an afrock, burm, retic or annie will be of no use whatsoever to a potential dwa holder as they are drastically differant to venomous. it isnt about the keeping but the safe handling, containment etc, none of which will be learnt with a giant snake.

getting a giant snake when you want dwa is about as useful as tits on fish imo


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm......................I sense a wind up here.

But anyway, I'll play along.

Creature Feature in Harrogate sell DWA reptiles as do Shropshire Exotics, Canterbury exotics, The Reptlile Zone in Bristol, and others that escape me.

I looked at your signature and there doesn't appear to be a great deal of consistency in what you are looking for, _Naja haje_ - terrestrial elapid, _Bothreichis schlegelli_ - arboreal pitviper, _Dendroaspis polylepis_ - arboreal elapid, _Bitis gabonica_ - terrestrial true viper. As diverse a group of snakes as you could ask for, all requiring differing methods of handling and all with completely different personalities. Just my 2p worth, but the only one of those that I would suggest you get is the schleg'. _Bitis_ sp. are very easily stressed and are likely to turn their toes up if things aren't just so. As for the _polylepis_........You really need to have a word with yourself and ask if you want to be dealing with a possible 14' snake, that, unless you have a very big room, is going to get you, no matter where you are standing and are renowned for being bad tempered, nervous, skittish buggers.

Good luck:2thumb:


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

lol thats not quite what I meant 

My partner had a dwa for 10+ years..kept everything venomous. crocs etc

He doesnt any more and we only keep big snakes but he maintains that when most handling of the venomous was just hooking etc that working with the big constricters is in general (and i mean in general) harder as with venomous you just have to avoid the business end lol

No offence to the guy who posted the thread with his cornsake list etc but I wouldnt trust him with either right now..i think he has years to go...


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

yea - i still dont think the use of giant snakes is at all useful for dwa. if this guy wants dwa good luck to him, but the only thing that will put him in a more able position is the frequent handling initially of similar species and venomous through mentoring


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

If your just starting out I certanly wouldn't get a Gabon!

I have seen these guys strike... & every experienced keeper I have ever read or watched all do not recomend as a starter. 

But what do I know really... nothing..


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## rogersspider2007 (Apr 2, 2007)

i think ive read somewhere that a gaboon's strike was that powerful it broke the glass on the front of the viv


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

rogersspider2007 said:


> i think ive read somewhere that a gaboon's strike was that powerful it broke the glass on the front of the viv


from coiled to full strike.... 0.2 of a second they've been recorded at! Now that's scary! One tried to swallow my partners fingers..that really is scary!!!!

As for the glass, if you designing a viv to hold a gaboon viper will it break the glass??? Of course not because you've designed the viv to hold a gaboon viper. Of course if you just put it in any old viv.....lol


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## malthereplover (Aug 22, 2008)

Urm how you can handle a hognose, possibly a mangrove, is not at all similar to DWA snakes, there arent many that appreciate you even being close to them, they ARE quicker than you n matter what, hook exp. is a MUST


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

FFS, i put this thread up for advice, not people to judge me like a couple of people said There dont no me, 

the people that i live with and people hu no me well enuf, 

know that i take great care with my reps, yes most of them are rats, corns but anyhow i have apllied just saving up for me insurance now,

but everyone has to start somewere, what so you lot are saying i have to have a 17 foot retic python b4 i can own a DWA, or whatever

then hopefully, can get one i might think again about the gaboon about smashing the glass that dosnt sound pretty good.

put like i am keep saying i have put the thread up for people advice, ONLY

and i am working on the vivarium now for it, i went to see the vets early and the gave me breif description about the setup i need,

at the end of that day it my choice 

jamie


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> FFS, i put this thread up for advice, not people to judge me like a couple of people said There dont no me,
> 
> the people that i live with and people hu no me well enuf,
> 
> ...


You may be taking people trying to help for people persecuting you.

I am not a DWA holder so do not have any first hand experience with keeping venomous snakes. However even I can tell that you may not be 100% ready, first of it is not all that reassurng that the vet is telling you how the set up for the snakes should be.. mabie a little more research into the temps, feeding, humidity, hides etc.. or do you mean he is advising you on the security issues?

And as I say I have not kept them myself but have read a few books, none of them recomending Gabby's as a starter snake & they are one of the worst snakes to be bitten by...

I would like to add I have a Mangrove, granted only a little one but have handled a friends 4-5fter. They do not prepare you at all, they lunge back & are not all that fast, especially when compared to a Gabby strike.


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## samg1696 (Oct 20, 2008)

Im sure the original question was asking where you can get 1 from. There is 1 in sheffield, its called sheffield exotics Sheffield Exotics - snakes, reptiles and other exotic animals Im not 100% sure if thats the right one but ive been there and i think its a great little shop.


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

samg1696 said:


> Im sure the original question was asking where you can get 1 from. There is 1 in sheffield, its called sheffield exotics Sheffield Exotics - snakes, reptiles and other exotic animals Im not 100% sure if thats the right one but ive been there and i think its a great little shop.


thanks mate, thats place what i woz looking for,

''Now Thats Called Advice''


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I think you need a good mentor (some one who can get the snakes for you, when he thinks your ready for them)
I started down the DWA road a year or so ago. After some careful consideration, I realised I wasn't ready for them right now.
I liked the way you said 'if it gets you it's no one fault but your own'..... Wrong attitude IMO.....All that tells me is you are too immature in your thought process to understand the implications..... The anti brigade will jump on any thing they can to stop us..... Don't give them ammunition.


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## malthereplover (Aug 22, 2008)

No if you were looking for advice you would be asking whats the best DWA snake to start with, or who can help me with some training, not saying im getting one, were can i buy some!


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Surely people saying that you aren't ready judging by experience is advice in itself?
And anyway, wont he just be refused the licence if the council deems him to not be ready?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

I think here people are not trying to discourage you or have a go at you - they are, first and foremost, protecting their hobby.

The government and councils do not like people keeping DWA - bad press regarding 'experts' who keep dangerous animals could lead to them getting banned or tighter restrictions.

Nobody wants that. From your threads it sounds like you are rushing into DWA keeping and 'expecting to get bitten' - regardless of whether this will be your fault or not, this is not the attitude to have and could be detrimental to other keepers.. 

If you are already in the process of getting your licence, you should have done a great deal of research and training before trying to get your licence. If you did do your research, you would know places to source DWA snakes from. 

Im not having a go and i dont think my words are unfair - i just worry for your safety and the welfare of the hobby if you rush into this not 110% prepared...


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Tbh Jamie, its quite obvious you are not prepared to keep venomous! You haven't got experience, and we can all tell by the question. 'Where do I get DWA snakes from '. If you want your dwa, noone can stop you, were just worried about the hobby, and it doesn't have the best press atm, good luck, by the sounds of things... You will need its!


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## shikari (Nov 26, 2008)

sorry to jump the gun here, 
i was 7 when i got my first reptile ( leos ) and since then royals boas burms etc and for my 18th at the end of the month im getting a tegu, so ive had 11 years reptile experince worked with a vet who done the local zoo reptiles and i still wouldnt dream of getting venoms...

why?
the reason i say this is, we are both 18, we still have soo much ahead of us in terms of jobs-- you may be asked to go away alot, move houses etc, relationships what are you going to spend more time doing sorting out the future with maybe the girl/boy you love preparing a family and then current economic situation, i can think of alot more things id do with the money!!

rather than tying yourself into something you may not be able to do in the long term hold out and just enjoy reptile keeping for a few more years : victory:

but as everyone has said, its your call


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Ozgi said:


> Surely people saying that you aren't ready judging by experience is advice in itself?
> And anyway, wont he just be refused the licence if the council deems him to not be ready?


 
I think you'll find the majority of councils dont even know what a DWA license is mate, it depends on the area, some will give em away with a bit of cash persuasion and others wont let you keep em unless they dont find any faults what so ever with your plans. Its just the way the cookie crumbles:lol2:


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## oakelm (Jan 14, 2009)

I dont keep DWA myself but have had snakes, lizards, etc since a teenager I am now 27 had some very snap happy snakes, helped out a DWA friend, had a mentor, volunterred at my local zoo (reptile department) and still dont feel ready for dwa snakes yet. But at this point I could design optimal vivs for most species commonly held with a dwa licence without needing a vets advice. Use hooks effectively and know how to tube a snake for treatment.

I can tell you are not ready, you know in your heart you are not ready. Save yourself the time and effort and forget about it for 10 years otherwise you will be the person who give the whole dwa scene a bad name and more reason for the government and rspca to stop herp keeping altogether.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Tbh, all the guy wanted was to know shops that sell DWA snakes.....................(un)fortunately a lot of us smelled trouble. As Hell (Chondro13) said, we want to protect was is essentially a fragile part of the hobby. If this lad gets bitten, yes it'll be his fault, but the repercussions will be felt by a lot of others and if/when the press gets hold of it it won't bode well. Personally, if this isn't a wind up, then I don't think the lad has a clue a) what he wants and b) what he's doing and from there it can only go bad.

I could be wrong........................and then again......:whistling2:


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## jamiethensnakeman (Sep 25, 2008)

ok then fair enuf, 

yes its a hobby, but its like a passion to me, i love keeping reps there are the new mans best friends

i have had this fought in my head since i turned 17, so its been a just over a year now to think of it and i have 

yes, i have alot of more things to sort out yet, but it will be a good couple of months yet b4 i get one,

need the viv setup to absouty perfection, i am halfway threw making the water dish inside the viv, with a plug so its easy and safty for me to clean it out,

my council is very excited for some reason about me getting a DWA (Props coz of the money)


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

shikari said:


> sorry to jump the gun here,
> i was 7 when i got my first reptile ( leos ) and since then royals boas burms etc and for my 18th at the end of the month im getting a tegu, so ive had 11 years reptile experince worked with a vet who done the local zoo reptiles and i still wouldnt dream of getting venoms...
> 
> why?
> ...


Nicely said and i have to say you sound like a very responsible chap :notworthy:

couldnt have put it better : victory:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Tbh, all the guy wanted was to know shops that sell DWA snakes.....................(un)fortunately a lot of us smelled trouble. As Hell (Chondro13) said, we want to protect was is essentially a fragile part of the hobby. If this lad gets bitten, yes it'll be his fault, but the repercussions will be felt by a lot of others and if/when the press gets hold of it it won't bode well. Personally, if this isn't a wind up, then I don't think the lad has a clue a) what he wants and b) what he's doing and from there it can only go bad.
> 
> I could be wrong........................and then again......:whistling2:



agreed, and text me back you git :devil:

lol


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

That is sound advice so please take it.

I can't understand why anyone would want to keep venomous snakes, are you prepared to die over your "hobby"?? How about lose a limb, become paralysed. Very real dangers.

I would happily welcome to my home crocs and alligators and such like my partners kept in the past but venomous snakes?!?!?! hell no lol


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> ok then fair enuf,
> 
> yes its a hobby, but its like a passion to me, i love keeping reps there are the new mans best friends
> 
> ...


your missing a point here. yes the set up needs to be done to perfection, but that doesnt take away the fact that you have no experience with venomous. let me tell you reptiles are a passion of mine as well, you only have to come down and see my collection, and the animals i am getting in the future, and the time i spend in country to see that. in my opinion reptiles are not a passion for you, or if they are you are failing to see a big point. if you get bitten yes its your fault, but have you ever thought of the knock on consequences? all keepers will feel the effect, and anti's will be onto it in a flash

you have considered this for a year, and you think you can get them in a few months. i know people that get mentored for years before going for it, and i am certain you would not currently be able to adequately control any DWA listed reptile.

the fact that the vet told you what the setup should be like does not mean what he said is right. most of the time the councils and the vets dont know the first thing abotu keeping or working with venomous and therefore the people to be asking are people on here.

please, for your sake and the hobbies and the animals look for a mentor and work with venomous before applying. noone is having a go - at least i am not, i merely want whats best for you, the reptile and ultimately the hobby


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Personally, I don't care about whats best for him, only that any animal won't get dumped when the novelty wears off, won't suffer 'cos he doesn't dare go near it and the hobby won't suffer if he gets given the good news by one of his snakes. each of those conditions would be satisfied by him not getting a DWA snake for some time, unfortunately it's a possibility he'll get a license and there's bound to be someone who'll sell him a snake that'll be more than likely unsuitable for him


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> ok then fair enuf,
> 
> yes its a hobby, but its like a passion to me, i love keeping reps there are the new mans best friends
> 
> i have had this fought in my head since i turned 17, so its been a just over a year now to think of it and i have


Being a passion and thinking about it for a year is not enough..... You need to get some serious help


jamiethensnakeman said:


> yes, i have alot of more things to sort out yet, but it will be a good couple of months yet b4 i get one,


A couple of months is not enough.... You need some serious help



jamiethensnakeman said:


> need the viv setup to absouty perfection, i am halfway threw making the water dish inside the viv, with a plug so its easy and safty for me to clean it out,


If the water bowl is your main concern.... You need some serious help



jamiethensnakeman said:


> my council is very excited for some reason about me getting a DWA (Props coz of the money)


I think your council needs some serious help here....

I'm starting to think Stuart is right...... He's gotta be jerkin our chains...
No one can be that *******.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> I'm starting to think Stuart is right...... He's gotta be jerkin our chains...
> *No one can be that *******.[/*quote]
> 
> I can!!! In fact, there's some that post on here that think I am...............:lol2:


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> SW-morelia said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to think Stuart is right...... He's gotta be jerkin our chains...
> ...


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> stuartdouglas said:
> 
> 
> > But you do walk the walk even if you talk BS when you talk the talk....:Na_Na_Na_Na: Only joking..... I had to think of a reply quick...Thats all I could think of....:blush:
> ...


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

SW-morelia said:


> stuartdouglas said:
> 
> 
> > But you do walk the walk even if you talk BS when you talk the talk....:Na_Na_Na_Na: Only joking..... I had to think of a reply quick...Thats all I could think of....:blush:
> ...


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

stuartdouglas said:


> SW-morelia said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, and there was me thinking I'd got you all fooled. You've sussed me, actually, I only have a corn snake, but next month I'm getting an Inland Taipan, does anyone know how big a box thingy I should keep it in?
> ...


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

stuartdouglas said:


> SW-morelia said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, and there was me thinking I'd got you all fooled. You've sussed me, actually, I only have a corn snake, but next month I'm getting an Inland Taipan, does anyone know how big a box thingy I should keep it in?
> ...


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

tsk, tsk..... all this p*ss taking, we're bad


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## rogersspider2007 (Apr 2, 2007)

you started it stu, lol


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

I thought jamie the wannabe DWA started it.... We just took it off topic...LOL


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## rogersspider2007 (Apr 2, 2007)

oops sorry stu, lol


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

very naughty kids :whip:


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## rogersspider2007 (Apr 2, 2007)

nothing to do with me :whistling2:


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## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

just to add i have been keeping reptiles of my own for 12 years now,
fair enough i am only 17 but got my first rep when i was 5.
my family have keep reptiles before i was born so was practically born into the hobby :lol2:.

over the years i have grown to like venomous and have been doing research every night, reading all the different types of books etc.

but i wouldnt get DWA until i am at least 22! 
i have a couple of friends with various cobras, vipers, beaded lizards, gators etc and they let me help them out.

the way i think about it is say you get very drunk one night and decide to show off in front of ur mates etc, get the venomous creature out and get tagged then wat are u goin to do!!!!


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## dragonboy08 (Aug 14, 2008)

DRD said:


> the way i think about it is say you get very drunk one night and decide to show off in front of ur mates etc, get the venomous creature out and get tagged then wat are u goin to do!!!!


And thats the thing im 25 love my rep's kept quite a few monitors boa's royals and would love to have my dwa so i could keep a few deathstalkers but i wouldn't even dream of it yet, my bosc was a nightmear to live with as was my boa but that doesn't mean as i could handel them i could handel a viper or cobra or something like that, it's not only your life your messing around with it's your familys and to be honest everyone that keeps hot's will be affected if or as you put it "when" you get tagged.

if you really want to go through with this then at least ask someone on here really nicely to give you some advice let you see there hot's and give you the all important hock training! 

by the way if anyone would like to invite me round there's to see there collection they will make my year :lol2: deathstalkers would be a bonus :mf_dribble:


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## mark elliott (Feb 5, 2007)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> yes i am, i have i have had snakes since i woz very young, even tho i am only 18, then from the age of 16 i got me first hognose,
> 
> i belive there is a place in sheffeild but no 100% sure
> 
> ...


 advice ........ ok add your name to the r.i.p family and pets list that you have while you still can


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> i might think again about the gaboon about smashing the glass that dosnt sound pretty good.


Im no DWA keeper but this seems abit odd to me.
not meaning to be funny, but you obviously havnt research this species husbandry/capabilties very well if you didnt realise that this could happen.
my advice is slow down! I got my first snake at the same age as you, and by the sounds of it, had similiar experience. I turned 18 last june and wouldnt even dream of getting a DWA yet. It's not just the age thing either, because at the end of the day its the experience youve had, not the years youve been in the hobby, there's no rush you've got your whole life ahead of you to get a DWA, slow down abit and enjoy keeping other non-dwa species 

And another thing, what about going away on holiday and things like that? It's not like you could just take it to your local shop for board, or get a mate 2 feed it for you. You just wouldnt be able to.


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## Moosey (Jan 7, 2008)

now, i might be wrong, but dont Gabboon vipers have one of the fastest strikes, inch long fangs and can inject somewhere in the region of half a pint of very potent venom?

Matey, I dont keep venemous, but i'd strongly recommend you pop to shropshire exotics if you can and talk to the owner about going on some of his hots training courses and for the love of God start on something like copperheads


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## Agkistrodon (Dec 12, 2008)

MissMoose said:


> now, i might be wrong, but dont Gabboon vipers have one of the fastest strikes, inch long fangs and can inject somewhere in the region of half a pint of very potent venom?


Very fast, strong strikes (apparently feels like the end of the tongs have been punched), longest recorded were around 2.5 inches I believe, but I think the half pint thing is a myth. It's not that much.


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## Rikki (Mar 27, 2007)

Agkistrodon said:


> but I think the half pint thing is a myth. It's not that much.


As of 2003, the highest recorded yield of wet venom was 9.7 ml. Nowhere near half a pint!


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## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

because a gaboons fangs are so long they can actually penetrate through their own jaw and still inject you with venom!!!!!

a gaboon is a no no for a first venomous.

if i were you id go for tree vipers as they are relativily aggressive which means you wont get overly confident which many people can make the mistake of when caring for gaboons.
you will need lots of hook work as they arent something that you can handle, which no venomous should be handled to and extent as they are very fast and agile and can quickly bite you.

the only venomous that i will be getting are eyelash vipers, waglers pit vipers, and a rock rattle snake.
i will however get Mexican beaded lizards and Gila monsters, a friend has been mentoring me with his and they are fantastic.


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

DRD said:


> because a gaboons fangs are so long they can actually penetrate through their own jaw and still inject you with venom!!!!!


This is true and the only thing that saved my partner, who is more experienced than you'll ever imagine possible, was the fact those fangs are so long. His got him on his fingers, fortunately the fangs went straight through (the bones) and the venom ended up on his shoe!

As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Bluejen said:


> As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".


I dont agree, theres keepers who have never been bitten, doesnt mean to say you definately will.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Bluejen said:


> As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".



i completely disagree with this comment - if you go into venomous keeping with that attitude you are expecting to get bitten... i agree accidents happen but there are plenty of careful keepers following proper protocols for years who have never been bitten...


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

Im not saying go in with the attitude you're just going to get bit anyway but i am saying you mentally have to be prepared that it's a possibilty when you choose to work with animals like these.

There are experienced keepers who've gone 10, 20 years with out a bite and can still get bit.

The difference is thier experience will be the difference between been left with the a scar or being left dead.


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## chase pets n reps (Sep 29, 2008)

the best advice is to start off with a copperhead or something very similar as the bite is not that bad if the worst was to happen and that way you can gain the experience of working safely with venomous ,handling techniques and getting use to working with hooks


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

chase pets n reps said:


> the best advice is to start off with a copperhead or something very similar as the bite is not that bad if the worst was to happen and that way you can gain the experience of working safely with venomous ,handling techniques and getting use to working with hooks


they can still kill you though, and my copperhead is the most aggressive snake in my collection


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## TW (May 1, 2007)

I can honesly say i'd want 20+ years of experience..


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## TW (May 1, 2007)

Oh and would you say that only venomous can prepare you for venomous with a mentor for years etc? I really fail to think a rear fang would prepare you..


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

MissMoose said:


> now, i might be wrong, but dont Gabboon vipers have one of the fastest strikes, inch long fangs and can inject somewhere in the region of half a pint of very potent venom?
> 
> Matey, I dont keep venemous, but i'd strongly recommend you pop to shropshire exotics if you can and talk to the owner about going on some of his hots training courses and for the love of God start on something like copperheads


Half a pint is a bit steep. more like 5-10ml. which is a fair old dose i can tell ya.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

chase pets n reps said:


> the best advice is to start off with a copperhead or something very similar as the bite is not that bad if the worst was to happen and that way you can gain the experience of working safely with venomous ,handling techniques and getting use to working with hooks


 
Here we go again, do you have any experience with a copperhead?

Read up on the bite Leo Spinner took by a Copperhead, Ive spoken to him, it was not nice.

There are far too many people on this forum giving advise on venomous snakes that they on believe is true, unless you have kept a particular species or have first hand experience with such animal how can you give advise that may encourage others to obtain one?

Dave


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

A copperhead bite is unlikely to kill you if you are fit and healthy but it will make you wish you were dead.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Moshpitviper said:


> A copperhead bite is unlikely to kill you if you are fit and healthy but it will make you wish you were dead.


still though amputations are not uncommon and thats not pleasent


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

SiUK said:


> still though amputations are not uncommon and thats not pleasent


Also pretty much limits your ability to do hook work :lol2:


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Bluejen said:


> As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".


Sorry Si and the others but I sort of agree with this comment.

Having been slated by incubuss over saying the same sort of thing.

I believe (IMO) that you should always have 'when' in the back of your mind, with skill and a tiny bit of luck then that 'when' will never occur. BUT IMO you must be prepared for the worst if it should come about.

Thats why venomous keepers have bite protocols, after all if you know you are skillful enough to avoid a bite then why would you ever bother having a protocol, it would never be needed. The protocol is there 'just in case' which means you have considered that a bite may happen in the future.

Doesn't mean to say that every venomous keeper 'will' get bitten (unlike what i put in other post) but that it should be considered a very real possibility. 

just my opinion on the above.

Back to the original thread though,

If you handled a mangrove an was 'OK' with that, does that really mean you are ready for front fanged ? I can free handle mangroves easily without getting bitten, somehow though even if my friend offered I wouldn't even handle the samarensis spitter with hooks. One mangrove doesn't get you anywhere near being able to handle venomous.
If you get a venomous, could you handle it with hooks, could you do it when it's fallen off the hook at your feet and is coming for you. if the snake is injured and needs tubing could you tube it when it's going mental at you? It's all very well making a viv that you don't have to open often for safety but you need to have the skills to deal directly with the animal in it's worst possible mood. You also need to be able to read the body language of the snake, this takes a long time to learn, even with non DWA. Something dangerous is not one to really learn on.

As others have said it's not just you that can be affected, the whole hobby can.

Why have you picked those particular snakes to own ? what is it about them that fascinates you ? Could you not find the same qualities in a non dwa?

Mike


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## Moosey (Jan 7, 2008)

Moshpitviper said:


> Half a pint is a bit steep. more like 5-10ml. which is a fair old dose i can tell ya.


 wikipedia lied to me! :shock:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

masticophis said:


> Sorry Si and the others but I sort of agree with this comment.
> 
> Having been slated by incubuss over saying the same sort of thing.
> 
> ...


I do agree with what your saying there Milke, like you say if there wasnt a chance then we wouldnt need protocols, I still dont want to go every day thinking its not a case of if but when though, because there are people that keep along time without getting bitten, and in almost all bite reports the people can pinpoint where they made the mistake that got them bitten, now no one is immune from mistakes thats for sure.


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## Sprocket (Apr 21, 2008)

Moshpitviper said:


> Half a pint is a bit steep. more like 5-10ml. which is a fair old dose i can tell ya.


Its not the quantity but the potency of the venom. From what i have seen Gaboons are lethally fast when they want to be. Don't let their placid nature fool you !

Half a pint as Moshpitviper says is a ever so slightly exaggerated, but even so i would not want to get bitten by one, it will probably be your last bite if you don't get medical attention ASAP.

I think this thread is a windup.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Agreed, it would only take the tiniest of drops to make a mess.


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

SiUK said:


> I do agree with what your saying there Milke, like you say if there wasnt a chance then we wouldnt need protocols, I still dont want to go every day thinking its not a case of if but when though, because there are people that keep along time without getting bitten, and in almost all bite reports the people can pinpoint where they made the mistake that got them bitten, now no one is immune from mistakes thats for sure.


At least you see my point though Si, thanks for that.

It's not so much as thinking on it and worrying about 'when', more that it's at the back of the mind, so every so often you think about it and decide again if you really want to take the risk of a potentially bad bite. With luck everyone will avoid them, but to me knowing and accepting the risk and responsibility is part of keeping venomous. After all it's not just the keeper but the rest of reptile keepers, pet owners, family and friends that can all suffer.

For me I don't need to think about it as the venomous I'd most like to keep has in it's family non DWA species so I can get my keeping with something a little less dangerous.


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## nocturnalbynature (Oct 24, 2008)

rofl...
you was all pretty brutal with that guy tbh.. i agree with you in what your saying but that was brutal lol


Anthony


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Not as brutal as when the doc wants to slice his arm open from wrist to elbow and then leave it that way for six months held together with elastic bands, that's not the time to be thinking "Hmmm, i wish i'd listened to them"


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

:whistling2:I have loads of experience with snakes (2 corns:whistling2 and I think you should look at for your first snakes are
1 black mamba
2 russels viper
3 fer de lance
4 king brown
all these snakes are very loving, and love to be handled. All the reptile shops that sells DWA will have these readily available for you.

Seriously, IMO if I were ever to go for DWA, I would ask to volunteer first with a shop that sells these, learn what the venom actually does i.e anti coagullant (soory for spelling), neurotoxins etc so I know what to expect if bitten, get a medical card made up for you in case you get bit so the hospital know what to do, learn the tools needed I think hooks and the grabbers etc so they become like an extension of your body. Let the people at the anti venom stores know what you have got so that the anit venom is in stock. Dont rush into it get a mentor, do your homework, speak like your serious about it then maybe you wont get slammed.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

leanne2497 said:


> :whistling2:I have loads of experience with snakes (2 corns:whistling2 and I think you should look at for your first snakes are
> 1 black mamba
> 2 russels viper
> 3 fer de lance
> ...


Don't mean to be funny, but where are these antivenom stores of which you speak?:whistling2:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Ya know stuart Like 'polyvalent local' and 'crofab express' there's one on every corner! :lol2:


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

Liverpool of Tropical disease and London. Apparantly dont know if its true or not but was told that you have to let the hospitals know as well what you have. This is so they can the the stocks up, there was a thread on this earlier, asking for info on what snakes people had so they could check the stocks cant remember who started it but you could do it anon as well.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

you don't need to inform the hospital, they Deffo dont carry Antivenine in stock, its far to costly and has a short arse shelf life. but yes the liverpool school of tropical medicine is indeed first port of call if you get a kiss of a nasty.


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

*UK Request for Venomous Inventory*

from Dr. Robert A. Harrison 
Website: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/6335 on October 12, 2008 
View comments about this article! 



The UK Department of Health has stockpiled antivenoms to treat anybody in UK who has been bitten or​

stung by a venomous animal. The Dept of Health wish to update their antivenom inventory so that it is​

medically appropriate for the species of venomous animals kept in the UK. *This requires a list of the*​

*venomous animal species (and the number of specimens) held in private collections, zoos and* ​

*research establishments.* 

this is what I had seen​


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

leanne2497 said:


> *UK Request for Venomous Inventory*
> 
> from Dr. Robert A. Harrison
> Website: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/6335 on October 12, 2008
> ...


:lol2: news to me.... and probably the keepers i know too. mind you the local council like to know what you have on site.


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## gaz0123 (Aug 19, 2008)

if i was you i would defo NOT get a gaboon viper to start out with if this snake really wanted to get you it will bit thru its own mouth to get at you and with the longest fangs ive seen theese things bite and its fast man. i dont no alot about vemomus but i no a little and i no enough not to get one till i have had ebough experiance and training.


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

maybe you should do it then :Na_Na_Na_Na:lol


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

leanne2497 said:


> *UK Request for Venomous Inventory*
> 
> from Dr. Robert A. Harrison
> Website: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/6335 on October 12, 2008
> ...


yeah its been posted in alot of places, all the forums with a venomous section


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Have any of you filled it in and returned it yet? I think we've just about covered all the cobras in existence!! :lol2:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

glidergirl said:


> Have any of you filled it in and returned it yet? I think we've just about covered all the cobras in existence!! :lol2:


yeah done it


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Good good, apparently they've had a bad response which is a shame as it is for our benefit after all.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

jamiethensnakeman said:


> i carnt member that,
> 
> plus i havnt got the space for a caimen, *i have just been on the phone to my concil and i have to go to them, to do a test, and a 2 day course*
> 
> ...


Forgive me if I am wrong, but since when has a test and a 2 day course been a requirement? What test, and who has written it? What course, and who is running it? As far as I am aware, there is currently NO requirement for any training course, and no such course run by a council.


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## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

i havnt heard of any sort of test or course for the keeping of venomous reptiles and ive only had my license about 8 months so still new to this game myself

and as already stated mate dont go for a gaboon viper or any elapid they are not beginner snakes in any way shape or form they are fast striking and as for how flighty elapids can be you wouldnt stand a chance with no long term mentoring before hand. and on top of that if you handed in your application you would have had to payed for your insurance since the reference number has to be on the DWA application. 

just think about it for a long time mate you are young just read read and do some more reading look at the consequences that a bite can do to you study the animal you are planning to keep and there behaviours. 

just think of your health and the safty of your family. and ultimatly the hobby


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

I know that posts on forums like this are often written in an informal and relaxed style. With just written text and maybe the odd smiley, so it can be hard to form an accurate picture of what a person is really like. 
Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly when I see the use of lazy street slang and text speak I automatically think “this is just a young lad who is not taking this subject seriously”. At this point I normally switch off as it takes more effort to read this style of text than it is really worth. 

You may think it is unfair, but that is how it is. I often get phone calls from Local Councils for advice when someone has put in an application for issuing a DWAL and a lot can ride upon how the applicant comes across both in oral and written communication.

There are a lot of experienced keepers on this site and you will find that they are usually very helpful and friendly, however I’m sure you can understand why people are protective of their hobby.


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

leanne2497 said:


> *UK Request for Venomous Inventory*
> 
> from Dr. Robert A. Harrison
> Website: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/6335 on October 12, 2008
> ...


Just to clarify, we will shortly be having another try at getting this information out to those we may have missed the first time around. It is important that we know what species are being kept and approximate numbers. This is so we can prepare for any accidents that may occur.
I have personally been keeping reptiles for close on 40 years as a hobbyist, Zoo Reptile Keeper and latterly as a Herpetologist based in a venom research unit. I can fully understand the reluctance of some to volunteer information and I can absolutely 100% guarantee that this is in no way a back-door attempt to find and confiscate collections.
The survey is designed to be totally anonymous and should be of benefit to every venomous keeper in the UK.
P.R.


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Just quickly Paul, 

The leaflet from the IHS about the venomous collection info has 'ANY' venomous underlined, I do take it that you are only interested in DWA animals though. Not any of the non DWA.

Mike


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## Lamprophis (Jun 12, 2008)

Bluejen said:


> This is true and the only thing that saved my partner, who is more experienced than you'll ever imagine possible, was the fact those fangs are so long. His got him on his fingers, fortunately the fangs went straight through (the bones) and the venom ended up on his shoe!
> 
> As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".


Andy told me it was a venemoid he was tagged by, therefore no venom? And with bitis species shedding their fangs on a regular basis, I doubt they have the potential to bite through bone..... 

Two other comments I disagree with are "more experienced than you'll ever imagine possible" - therefore more experienced than world renowned herpetologists?...who I imagine to be very experienced, however not more than most people would imagine. and the case of "when not if" - I believe it should be more a case of being prepared for the worst, but not epecting it, there is a difference IMO.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Lamprophis said:


> Andy told me it was a venemoid he was tagged by, therefore no venom? And with bitis species shedding their fangs on a regular basis, I doubt they have the potential to bite through bone.....
> 
> Two other comments I disagree with are "more experienced than you'll ever imagine possible" - therefore more experienced than world renowned herpetologists?...who I imagine to be very experienced, however not more than most people would imagine. and the case of "when not if" - I believe it should be more a case of being prepared for the worst, but not epecting it, there is a difference IMO.


yeah I picked up on the through the bone thing.


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## Sprocket (Apr 21, 2008)

leanne2497 said:


> :whistling2:I have loads of experience with snakes (2 corns:whistling2 and I think you should look at for your first snakes are
> 1 black mamba
> 2 russels viper
> 3 fer de lance
> ...


That Fer De lance venom is nasty, nasty stuff, i remember watching a program about a women who got tagged (her own fault because she did not wear the right feet protection) and her leg was nearly going to be amputated. Most of her muscle is missing and it is a gruesome sight, a lot of people considering venomous just think "either you die or you don't", but even antivenom may not save you from some hideous and devastating disfiguration that you have for the rest of your days ....


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

SiUK said:


> yeah I picked up on the through the bone thing.


yeah sorry guys that was my assumption..it was through but not like that, have been corrected...

I guess I feel so concerned by how unexperienced and not ready the guy who posted this thread sounds.. 

There has been some excellent advise on the post from people of all ages and experiences

i do hope he is reading them and taking note.

He may thank you all for it in years to come when hopefully one day he reaches his goal, becomes an experienced dwa keeper and will probably be giving the same advice to another young person in the same position he is in now.


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## educated_fool (Apr 25, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Not as brutal as when the doc wants to slice his arm open from wrist to elbow and then leave it that way for six months held together with elastic bands, that's not the time to be thinking "Hmmm, i wish i'd listened to them"


@stuartdouglas

Sorry for being slightly off topic but is this a regular treatment for venomous bites? I know next to nothing about venomous snakes and find it all very interesting!


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

masticophis said:


> Just quickly Paul,
> 
> The leaflet from the IHS about the venomous collection info has 'ANY' venomous underlined, I do take it that you are only interested in DWA animals though. Not any of the non DWA.
> 
> Mike


Yes, that is a good question...
We are limiting the required data to just the species covered by the DWAL, (snakes lizards, spiders and scorpions), including those for which AV is not currently available. Such bites would still be classed as a medical emergency so we need to make sure that protocols are in place to treat these bites as well.


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## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

If you are in need of antivenom it may not save you as it is made from horse, sheep and cow antibodies.
Some people are allergic to horses, sheep and cows and only find out when antivenom is injected. so really with a lack of experiance and knowledge it is not worth the risk.
why dont you try to do some voluntry work at a reptile zoo or shop etc with this species, you will also pick up on many handy things that are critical to the keeping of hots.


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Bluejen said:


> This is true and the only thing that saved my partner, *who is more experienced than you'll ever imagine possible*, was the fact those fangs are so long. His got him on his fingers, fortunately the fangs went straight through (the bones) and the venom ended up on his shoe!
> 
> As I'm sure all venomous keepers will tell you it's not a case of "if" you get bit it's a case of "when".


Hmm let’s see, for someone in full time employment there are an average of 2000 working hours per year. So 2000 x 30 years = 60,000 hours plus whatever 10 years prior to that spent as a hobbyist equals ??? Maybe I’ve not been trying hard enough. At least I now have something to aspire to :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

DRD said:


> If you are in need of antivenom it may not save you as it is made from horse, sheep and cow antibodies.
> Some people are allergic to horses, sheep and cows and only find out when antivenom is injected. so really with a lack of experiance and knowledge it is not worth the risk.
> why dont you try to do some voluntry work at a reptile zoo or shop etc with this species, you will also pick up on many handy things that are critical to the keeping of hots.


Back in the 70’s they used to test zoo workers and other people coming into contact with venomous snakes to see if they where predisposed to having allergic reactions. This proved to be unreliable as people’s sensitivity levels could change over time.
Horse serum sickness is a known problem. Sheep based AV’s seem to produce less side effects.


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## andy147 (Oct 13, 2008)

[quote=


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

PDR said:


> Hmm let’s see, for someone in full time employment there are an average of 2000 working hours per year. So 2000 x 30 years = 60,000 hours plus whatever 10 years prior to that spent as a hobbyist equals ??? Maybe I’ve not been trying hard enough. At least I now have something to aspire to :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


My goodness you're all taking that waaaay too seriously lol

It was nothing more than a figure of speech aimed at the person who posted this thread nothing more


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Bluejen said:


> My goodness you're all taking that waaaay too seriously lol
> 
> It was nothing more than a figure of speech aimed at the person who posted this thread nothing more


No, I’m not just pointing out that boasting can be fun... but there is always going to be someone who can beat you... that’s why I normally keep quiet:whistling2:: victory::lol2::cheers:


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

BlueJen, Do you actually realise who your debating with?


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## Bluejen (Jan 15, 2009)

Yes I do lol and was I debating??? I did say that I said it purely as a figure of speech and wasn't even refering to myself anyway.

There's a man who's spent his life studying british sand lizards (or something like that-please dont quote me on this!!! lol) Someone told me about a talk he gave and the first thing he said was "I've been studying reptiles for 67 years (yes he was an older gentleman) and the one thing I've learnt is I know nothing"

How can you not agree with that? When it comes to working/studying animals you can never be too experienced and know too much. They'll always find a way to suprise you and teach you.


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## Rexc (May 23, 2008)

first hot is one of the nskaes with the fastest srike time and longest fangs , Iam still jealos iam like obseesed with these animals lol


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

What I was told 3 years ago by a now dead man back in Oz was this,
learn the body language, study them, learn all you can about the species and gain the knowledge. Then expect to be surprised when they surprise you, as you learn something every day.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm..................the fact that he's now dead kind of makes me think that maybe he wasn't as prepared to be surprised as he thought.....


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## leanne2497 (Dec 8, 2008)

No he just wasnt prepared for the stingray you know fab bloke he was.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Gotcha.........................just goes to show tho'


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## stuart89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Stopped reading at page 3, do not get a DWA, you are not prepared. You will die extremely young, thats certain. Im 19 and started owning snakes at 15, I wouldnt even dream of getting a DWA at this age, are you insane? 
This is gonna work like young drivers, all the confidence, thinking you have the know how, and yet you write off your car. Difference with this is though, you "write off your car" and you die - not to mention killing someone else if the snake is loose.

Im actually in awe of this thread, I mean you cant even type real sentences let alone be mature enough to own these snakes...

By the way, go and look up the definition for the word advice, all the posts that I read on pages 1-3 offered you *advice*. It just wasnt what you wanted to hear, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it was advice lol.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

Declan123 said:


> BlueJen, Do you actually realise who your debating with?


 
dnt think she realises shes talking to the professor dumbledore of the venomous world lol


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

paulrimmer69 said:


> dnt think she realises shes talking to the professor dumbledore of the venomous world lol



Dumbledore is lower ranking,

Hes grand master funk

:2thumb:


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