# Big snake license



## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi everyone, 
i have heard from many friends and other people in the trade that 5 large snakes will be held under a special license.
these snakes will be;
retics
burms
african rocks
green anacondas
red tailed boas

i personally think this is a great idea, only because people who dont understand the animals by them for show and usually become injured or they end up in rescue centres as they get to big.

everyone please tell me your views on this license, do you think it is a good idea or not?

thanks


----------



## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

No rubbish idea to many about already


----------



## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

agreed ^^^^


----------



## burmman (Oct 30, 2008)

Yep i agree with you on that 1.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Thats a crap idea if it actually goes ahead, look how many people have been killed by constrictors in this country in the past 100 years. I aint payin a license for my boas and retic, there my responsibility and they dont leave this house anyway apart from the summer to enjoy the garden.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

burmman said:


> Yep i agree with you on that 1.


Agree with what, the license?


----------



## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

Owzy46 said:


> No rubbish idea to many about already


 Too many what?, licenses? And if you meant toomany snakes - surely thats a good thing - if there are TOO MANY, there shouldn't be, there should be JUST ENOUGH, for the people that want them. I think its a good idea - someone with a licence isn't likey to let their snake loose in the wild if it gets too big, and they will certainly make sure it isn't going to escape and harm someone. It just need to be done in the right way, not as strict as the DWAL


----------



## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

There was talk, Ive heard nothing and my Council have said nothing to me.

Red Tailed Boas-- hmm I can think of other snakes that should take priority.

Yes, understand about Rocks, Greens and Retics.

Dave


----------



## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

Mujician said:


> Too many what?, licenses? And if you meant toomany snakes - surely thats a good thing - if there are TOO MANY, there shouldn't be, there should be JUST ENOUGH, for the people that want them. I think its a good idea - someone with a licence isn't likey to let their snake loose in the wild if it gets too big, and they will certainly make sure it isn't going to escape and harm someone. It just need to be done in the right way, not as strict as the DWAL


lol what???

Thats a lot of crap in a short paragraph


----------



## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

I think this is a good idea and I would happily pay for a license to keep my burm. 
But this is a rumour that regularly does the rounds and it's neve gonna happen regardless of our opinions.


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

I agree people would have to prove themselves capable of keeping large snakes, cos the amount that get mistreated due to them growing too big is quite worrying.

But i think surely something like a scrub python instead of a RTB should be on there? as not all of them grow ridiculously big.


----------



## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Before this thread gets out of hand (which I can see happening), this small talk has been floating around for years, I dont see anything changing in the near future.

Dave


----------



## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

I dont see why you would be happy to pay when you could not?? 

They are not particulary dangerous, simply turn around and walk the other way if you see one they can't catch you... A large dog is more of a danger... or a cat could stratch a todlers eyes out if that got aggresive... this nanny state has got to stop


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Sid.lola said:


> I think this is a good idea and I would happily pay for a license to keep my burm.
> But this is a rumour that regularly does the rounds and it's neve gonna happen regardless of our opinions.


 
Things are tight enough round here, why would you want to pay for a license? Your not going to get anything back from that license.. I agree that theres alot of noobs keeping large boids/constrictors but boids dont pose noway near as much of a threat as a venomous snake, If you've got someone there with you with a 14ft snake, a bite may do a bit of damage to your arm and if its constricts you you should be able to get it off, whereas a venomous snake bites you, you cant just run it under the cold tap can you.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Owzy46 said:


> I dont see why you would be happy to pay when you could not??
> 
> They are not particulary dangerous, simply turn around and walk the other way if you see one they can't catch you... A large dog is more of a danger... or a cat could stratch a todlers eyes out if that got aggresive... this nanny state has got to stop


 
Yeah :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

pythondave82 said:


> Before this thread gets out of hand (which I can see happening), this small talk has been floating around for years, I dont see anything changing in the near future.
> 
> Dave


Yes true, there has got to be a few people high up who view it as important enough to do, plus it would take ALOT of effort, hopefully counsils have more important things to be doing with their resources.


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

What about things like caimen still being sold? i cant remember them needing a license :S


----------



## Owzy46 (Jun 24, 2008)

sandmatt said:


> What about things like caimen still being sold? i cant remember them needing a license :S


They do


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

sandmatt said:


> What about things like caimen still being sold? i cant remember them needing a license :S


 

Haha, are you bein serious?


----------



## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

i agree with above, i never get any of my large snakes out without someone else there...that way IF something did happen , we would eb able to do something about it. Its entirely different to venomous snakes..

im quite new to large snakes..i currently have two boas and a burm, and am getting another burm this weekend, but i wouldnt pay for a liscence, i know how to care for them, and how to handle them...why should i pay?

i know the risks involved with keeping them, and they are therefore easier to prevent from happening.


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> Haha, are you bein serious?


What :S i dont know whether you have to have a license for them or not... just alot of places round here sell em.


----------



## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> Things are tight enough round here, why would you want to pay for a license? Your not going to get anything back from that license.. I agree that theres alot of noobs keeping large boids/constrictors but boids dont pose noway near as much of a threat as a venomous snake, If you've got someone there with you with a 14ft snake, a bite may do a bit of damage to your arm and if its constricts you you should be able to get it off, whereas a venomous snake bites you, you cant just run it under the cold tap can you.


 
Have you seen the damage they can do? I don't care so much about the threat they pose to the idiots that have them when they shouldn't. What I do care about is the threat they pose to, say, children of the idiots who shouldn't have them. 

I'd rather pay for a licence than have my animal culled because of someone else's stupidity. 
Unlikely as it is - it's still a risk you just don't get with smaller snakes.

My opinion on this is very complicated and I'm not willing to really get into it cos I'm working lol


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Sid.lola said:


> Have you seen the damage they can do? I don't care so much about the threat they pose to the idiots that have them when they shouldn't. What I do care about is the threat they pose to, say, children of the idiots who shouldn't have them.
> 
> I'd rather pay for a licence than have my animal culled because of someone else's stupidity.
> Unlikely as it is - it's still a risk you just don't get with smaller snakes.
> ...


Someone could bring the fact that you dont need a license for dogs..

Soon we wont be able to go outside without a air filter on our mouths making sure no extra carbon dioxide gets into our lungs:whistling2:

Can some one people post some statistics(real ones please) of how many people have been killed by large snakes in the past 30 years in this country..? or serious injury


And they wont put dogs on a license as they are a domestic pet thats more acceptable.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

sandmatt said:


> What :S i dont know whether you have to have a license for them or not... just alot of places round here sell em.


Yeah, ask them if you can buy one and see what they say?


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm guessing that'd be a big fat no then.


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

don't get yourself too wound up people. This "talk" has been around since the mid 90s. Load of rubbish.


If it ever does happen, they can't just pop up one day saying "guess what folks??  "


----------



## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

Jb1432 said:


> Someone could bring the fact that you dont need a license for dogs..
> 
> Soon we wont be able to go outside without a air filter on our mouths making sure no extra carbon dioxide gets into our lungs:whistling2:
> 
> Can some one people post some statistics(real ones please) of how many people have been killed by large snakes in the past 30 years in this country..? or serious injury


Dogs are more popular and accepted and nobody says "oh you shouldn't keep dogs they're dangerous"

Nobody has been killed in this country by a large snake in MY lifetime. Serious injury - there's a thread floating about at the moment that ain't too clever....

It doesn't matter how many people are killed or injured by dogs etc. Statistics don't change misconceptions - only education and reassurance does. People panic, people are sheep, people are more likely to panic and turn against snakes than they are dogs.




Mason said:


> don't get yourself too wound up people. This "talk" has been around since the mid 90s. Load of rubbish.
> 
> 
> If it ever does happen, they can't just pop up one day saying "guess what folks??  "


zacly


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

oh and by the way, there have been no recorded deaths in the UK of giant snakes killing their keepers.


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

Anyone else have the zookeepers who used to bring in the half dangerous animals for talks? they once had a 10 foot boa constrictor and let about 5 of us hold it, that was amazing! thats how you get people to learn about these things!


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

I will say this though. People do underestimate large snakes. Owning one is not ot be taken lightly. Even a half grown one can easily hospitalize an adult, recently a femaled keeper was killed in the states by her 9ft retic.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Mason said:


> oh and by the way, there have been no recorded deaths in the UK of giant snakes killing their keepers.


Thats what i was trying to prove matey. I've been hearing it for a long time now also just getting worried as its popping up more and more often, you'd be out on the street mate if the license did come in!!:lol2:


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

sandmatt said:


> I'm guessing that'd be a big fat no then.


 
Lol not being nasty matey, it probably came across that way but it made me laugh that you said it:lol2:: victory:


----------



## sandmatt (Oct 25, 2008)

Lol dw i am quite misinformed when it comes to these things anyway.


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

It doens't bother me in the slightest. IF they do ever licence it I will be annoyed yes, but i'll pay my money like I do with everything in this life.

I would still keep them, I would however re-assess the viability of breeding them in any kind of number and producing morphs etc. 

That being said around 90% of our future breeding projects will be to do with making these snakes smaller, and brigning the morphs into the super dwarf and dwarf snakes. Making them more accessable.

We already have adult retics that could be housed in the same space as a royal python, i'd love for them to explain to me why i'd need it licencing.

Would I pay a licence to keep large snake? Yes if I must just as I have to pay car tax and insurance to use the roads etc etc.


Do I think it'd make the slightest bit of difference? Nope just like driving licences, road tax and insurance don't mean the guy next to me on the motorway isn't drunk, stoned, about to fall asleep or a moron.

The *only* difference a licence would make is an increase in the amount the council got out of me every year.


----------



## MSL (Jul 30, 2007)

Someone earlier in the thread raised a good point.....look at how many children have been mauled to death by dogs recently and there isn't a dog license, personally I think that should have higher priority than snakes who are kept...on the whole.....:whistling2:....by enthusiasts who want the best for the snake ......the number of people who obviously should not own dogs is astounding and yet they keep getting them, giving certain breeds a bad name etc but like anything,
who is going to decide if you are a fit person to keep animals??? some numpty from the council or an rspca inspector with a power complex.....either way I also agree the nanny state has to stop...I dont need telling to not let my big boa have free roam around the house and garden!

I don't think it needs to come in.....considering the quite large numbers of these animals in captivity in this country there is very rarely any real news regarding them causing problems...just the usual scaremongering rubbish!


no to licensing !!!!!:whip:


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

I also love these people who bang on about all these retics in "rescue centers" I am on record with several/many saying that most of the time i'll have the ability to take on any large retics they have to either keep or re-home. I've yet to be even offered one. Not saying that it's doens't happen, it clearly does. But people seem to have this impression that 4 in every 5 retics will end up dumped on a rescue. Will people keep them forever? Probably not, but how many people these days keep a dog or a cat for it's entire lives? It's the way of the world unfortunately.


----------



## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

Mason said:


> It doens't bother me in the slightest. IF they do ever licence it I will be annoyed yes, but i'll pay my money like I do with everything in this life.
> 
> I would still keep them, I would however re-assess the viability of breeding them in any kind of number and producing morphs etc.
> 
> ...


 
Good point, i wouldnt give in without a fight for it maybe not being on the license, i dont think money should be involved though. If there was say something like a points system that when you'd had enough points from people say housing, safety and security. I dont know but i dont think you should have to pay anymore money for the dole dossers to get paid even more to sit on there arse. Something would need to be thought of that makes it fair for everybody on each side of the arguement


----------



## Sirvincent (Jul 16, 2008)

I have to agree with everyone that has said it's a bad idea. What would happen to all those snakes already out there with owners that refuse to get a license? What would be the punishment if you are found to be the owner of the large snake without a license? who would run and enforce this? how much would it take out of the ever decreasing local authority/government funds pot? would the price of large snakes go down due to less potential customers? and the questions go on.....

So much to consider, when there's no need. As has already been mentioned, there is no record of anyone being killed in the uk by larger snakes. If it's not broke - leave it alone! :whistling2:


----------



## renton (Jun 24, 2008)

I think there should be more regulation on the sale/keeping of large snakes and lizards.

I don't think it should fall under a licence you pay as such but something to protect the ANIMAL rather than the keeper.
Having to apply for the animal itself so your on record as keeping it, something like that.

I know people would then try and keep them illegally but you cant stop that. If you didn't have to pay extra and you didnt have anything to hide then you would wait a bit longer for the animal if you had to apply for one. Would also cut down the number of impulse buys.

A large snake is only as dangerous as the person keeping it.


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Various people have been talking about this subject for many years now, personally I can’t see it happening anytime soon. It would me a mammoth task to track down all the existing owners and issue licensees. 
The only way it could work is if they licensed the given species both as new-born/hatched snakes through to adult specimens, otherwise you run into the problem of determining at what size does a snake become dangerous? A snake that I could safely handle may kill someone else.
I think it is only a matter of time before there is a serious accident in the UK and no amount of licensing will prevent it... rather it is up to everyone who keeps large boids to look out for each other and where possible guide new keepers in the right direction with helpful advice. Starting with the most basic such as don’t handle snakes after touching prey animals / other household pets and use long tongs to offer food to the snakes etc.


----------



## Reptacular Ltd (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi

We think that if a licence is brought in (which i would get if i had to but would not be particularly happy), then people who already have them should be checked. that way the people who have them in the right conditions, are healthy, and comfortable handling them are fine. But then the idiots who have them to impress and dont even know the first thing about them will loose them, and be banned from owning them. 

These are beautifull animals and people like most of you on here who will look after them should not be penalised or fined, or have to pay for a licence or anything else. Think that were all agreed, none of use want it to happen, but if its does i think most of us will do it just for the sake of our animals.

Another big point is the fact of certain pet stores (we have couple round here), who will sell anything to anyone. WHICH IS WRONG!!! I was in a local store one day when someone bought a big tegu, he would not hold it, touch it, asked no questions, etc, etc. the owner of the store laughed as he walked out and said he wont be able to handle that. But he had just sold a lovely live animal to someone he knew did not really know anything about it and was frightened of it. THIS ANNOYS ME !!!

Any one who is responsible with there animals should not be punished, its the idiots who ruin it for us genuine people who love our pets.


----------



## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

Some very good points. I think I'd feel more confident handling a large rattlesnake than a large constricter species any day.

I take my hat off to you all that keep these powerfull predators :2thumb:


----------



## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

DWA is already nothing but a scrap of paper that does little to prove how good a keeper is. Large snake licenses will be the same, nothing but a scrap of paper that costs a bomb.


They cant enforce it anyway, too many people already have large snakes.


----------



## sallyconyers (Mar 21, 2008)

I think its upto the suppliers of the big snakes to ensure they are selling to the right people - not some idiot who is going to ditch it when it gets above 3 foot and starts biting. I think its the shops etc that need further licencing and responsibility to ensure these animals go to the right homes, i don't think owners having licences will make a big difference - people are just not going to tell if they have a big snake. 
Its really sad if you ever work in a rescue and get the stories behind some of their big rep rescues - its gutting the state some people allow their animals get to before they are dumped. I don't think licences will stop that - only the people who sell them can prevent this happening.


----------



## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Every 6 months this rumour surfaces, and someone has always spoken to someone who's spoken to someone who's been told by someone else that it's being implemented or discussed for the last 10 years! But no one official ever knows anything about it. I've got my yearly inspection due in the next few weeks, I'll ask the council dude again but I'm pretty sure he's going to say nope, no changes to any legislation.

I know for a fact at one point it was officially discussed as to whether certain species would be added to DWA based on size, but that was thrown out the window.


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

More B.S to add to the rumour mill


----------



## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

hi everyone and thanks for all the replies,

i personally feel that it is a good idea for people who is a first time keeper not to be able to keep these animals and try a much smaller species, however i wouldn't like it to go ahead my self as i have plenty of snakes that would come under this license.
i do however feel that DOGS should be put onto a license as there is most likely a bit or attack every day.

and thanks again to everyone


----------



## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

DRD said:


> hi everyone and thanks for all the replies,
> 
> i personally feel that it is a good idea for people who is a first time keeper not to be able to keep these animals and try a much smaller species, however i wouldn't like it to go ahead my self as i have plenty of snakes that would come under this license.
> i do however feel that DOGS should be put onto a license as there is most likely a bit or attack every day.
> ...


Dogs WERE licensed once upon a time.

The whole licencisg system was majorly flawed, became totally unenforcable (mainly due to cost of enforcing it) and was scrapped.

A piece of paper does not make someone a better keeper. It will not save your life in the event of an "accident" etc.


----------



## Magik (Jul 22, 2008)

Anyone else noticed that MOST people on here that think a license is needed have little or no experience with large boids?

I think its a crap idea that would never work no matter what way they try to do it, it will never get rid of the risks and no matter how hard they try accidents will happen, with any animal it is possible.

If you doubt your ability to keep large boids then do not keep them I would not keep them if i did not think I could keep them I think others should do the same but that is just my opinion.

Most people with large boids have there heads screwed on they know that one mistake can ruin this hobby for others (nobody wants that because it starts with retics but that soon becomes Royals) if they dont take that into consideration then they are idiots and should not keep these animals again this is just my opinion.

These animals can kill thats a fact but they do not wake up one day (or night really) and say I am going to kill today someone today that happens because of complacency and stupid mistakes.

What do licenses achieve?There is DWAL but people still have DWA without licenses!

Whats going to change with a Big Boid License?Once again a a great rumor that surfaces every now and again here and on other forums

I hope this license never comes into affect there because 9 times out of 10 what happens in the UK it follows suit over here In Ireland and I think that would be a very dark day for this hobby because so many people will miss out on the enjoyment, interest and sense of woe large constrictors can give you, I would not look at snakes in the same way if it wasnt for them.

Just my 2 cents and of course all my own opinion


----------



## Tominho35 (Feb 25, 2008)

why does it always seem to be the people who have little or no experience of big snakes calling out for a licence? why dont all of those who dont have any experience get some so they can actually have a valid opinion? none of this 'oh i saw one once :censor:' actual experience of these truly amazing animals


----------



## ogawa only (Jun 4, 2008)

Tominho35 said:


> why does it always seem to be the people who have little or no experience of big snakes calling out for a licence? why dont all of those who dont have any experience get some so they can actually have a valid opinion? none of this 'oh i saw one once :censor:' actual experience of these truly amazing animals


 i agree !!! 
this romour has been going round for yonks pre 1980's !! 

but its nice to know that some people who are in the same hobby would quite happily send us big boid keepers down the river .
steve


----------



## Tominho35 (Feb 25, 2008)

it certainly feels like a lynch mob coming down on you every time a gecko or corn keeper decides they dont like the big boys!


----------



## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

i have lots of experiance with big boids and have been keeping them 4 the past 7 years at present i have 3 tiger retics, 2 guyana red tails, 2 dwarf retics and many other snakes over the 8 foot mark.
i am very un happy with the keepers on this forum having ago at the less knowlegdeable people with big boids.

i only feel this is a good reason as many areas especially the reptile shop i worked at had alot of people trying to buy big snakes that dont even have a clue.

:censor::devil::censor:


----------



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

On a positive note.... I bought my first big boid, a Retic about 35 years ago. At the time information on the care of snakes and other reptiles was limited. I was lucky as both my Father and Grandmother worked at the local zoo so I had access to help from the keepers in Reptile House.
These days there are countless resources, web-forums, information sites, books, magazines and reptile clubs/societies where people can get excellent advice and back-up from other experienced keepers. Oh, and not forgetting there is a good supply of captive bred specimens.
We often moan about things, but sometimes it is good to look back and see just how far we have come.


----------



## DRD (Nov 12, 2008)

i think im doing well considering im only 17 and have a successful business running  i was brought up in a reptile related environment and got my fist reptile at the age of five and kept reptiles ever since


----------



## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

PDR said:


> On a positive note.... I bought my first big boid, a Retic about 35 years ago. At the time information on the care of snakes and other reptiles was limited. I was lucky as both my Father and Grandmother worked at the local zoo so I had access to help from the keepers in Reptile House.
> These days there are countless resources, web-forums, information sites, books, magazines and reptile clubs/societies where people can get excellent advice and back-up from other experienced keepers. Oh, and not forgetting there is a good supply of captive bred specimens.
> We often moan about things, but sometimes it is good to look back and see just how far we have come.


 
A positive outlook is always the best.

If you have the space give retics a go again. I've not met many properly raised (ie raised to be handleable) CB retics not turn out fine. WC sub adults and juveniles do fine much of the time temprement wise (if you mind, and put the effort in). Alert, and requiring experience yes, not for everybody. But done right they are great 

Just waiting for sami to get home tonight as we have a retic to bath before company arrives (company with a skunk..yay!!). She loves her baths, you just have to stop her doing her second favorite thing which is "head for the ceiling and seeing what I can grip up there" It's a bit of a fight sometimes, but the dwarf girl up for a bath tonight isn't too bad for it. The tiger girl however makes it her lifes work to get away for ten minutes, then she settles and you can litterally leave her in the bath for hours. She's always monitored, but once she settles she never moves.

Not so settled:




























Nice and settled, honestly you could bugger off and watch a bond movie.






































They aren't for everyone, but don't need licencing. Lots of things in life are not for everyone and should be looked at long and hard before giant boids. I for one could not live without them. IF I was ever to move to the states the FIRST thing i'd check in the state I was looking at jobs in would be the legality of keeping python reticulatus and what/if any permits are required or are they flat out illegal (like in some states)

If for one will accept the government coming ot me wanting to licence my large boids when said government can actually manage thing of moe importance.

*edit to say the pictures show it quite well but she's deep in shed during this, never once did she even threaten to bite. She never, ever has OUTSIDE OF HER ENCLOSURE at all. We have half a rack full of boas that will hammer you if they are blue, this girl doesn't like you in her crib, but the attitude dissapears when she's out, once out she's just amazingly adventurous, inquisitive, fast, wanting to be everywhere and in everything. 

She did once settle in for an evening behind some furnature in the front room we couldn't move. We watched a film. waited for her to unwrap her tail from things, get comfy and coil up then fished her out. Brilliant.


----------



## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

licensing is a briliiant idea - I keep burms, retics, boas and green anacondas - I would welcome a licence !!

However in practice its a completely unrealistic and unenforceable suggestion - the rumours that go round are generally ridiculous and ill concieved with very few of the perpetuators of the rumours having any appreciation of the practical issues involved with what they are suggesting.

I agree with the previous post about quality of care and general keeper expectation nowadays being so much more advanced than it were even 10 years ago.

carl


----------

