# breeding multi mice



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

hello,
iam getting 8 female and 5 male multimammate mice on sunday.
could anybody give me any tips on breeding them.
whats the best ratio?, how long are they pregnant for? should the male be removed when the female is pregnant and lastly can other females be kept in to help bring up the babies as ive heard this can happen.
im only asking on here as i cant find the answers anywhere.
also if theres and other tips you can give me, it will be muchly apprciated.
thanks! 
p-s is it true they are VERY bitey?


also, would they chew through a rub?


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I satrted with around 1.4 and now have loads.

I kept them in a group and never removed any males or females as I read that they can be hard to re-introduce into the group once they've been taken out.

With what your getting I'd keep in two groups of 1.4 and keep the remaining males in case of any fatailities whilst the groups establish or just feed them off.

They can chew through RUBs given the chance, make sure there's no holes, cracks or anything they can get their teeth into and it should be ok, mine are in cheaper versions of RUBs and they haven't chewed through them yet as the sides are smooth with no nobbly bits for them to start chewing on.

I've had mine at least 6 months and haven't been bitten yet but have heard that if they do bite then they mean it.


----------



## 8legpet (Mar 25, 2010)

Get some welding gloves if you intend to be in the same room as these vicious little beasts!

Mine chewed through rubs, wire mesh, and fingers, thumbs, palms etc. In the end they were effectively neutralised and passed to the multi-processing dept (My Royal Viv). People told us they were easy to keep, easy to breed and very productive. I beg to differ on virtually every point. They stank to high heaven, never produced one litter, and as for biting? I'd rather sit and stick pins into myself. I'm certain it would be less painful.


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

8legpet said:


> Get some welding gloves if you intend to be in the same room as these vicious little beasts!
> 
> Mine chewed through rubs, wire mesh, and fingers, thumbs, palms etc. In the end they were effectively neutralised and passed to the multi-processing dept (My Royal Viv). People told us they were easy to keep, easy to breed and very productive. I beg to differ on virtually every point. They stank to high heaven, never produced one litter, and as for biting? I'd rather sit and stick pins into myself. I'm certain it would be less painful.


They certainly bite like buggers given half a chance but just as with any animal, can be handled safely with out getting bitten. 
The fact that they stank worries me... perhaps they had kidney issues and were drinking too much and so peeing loads? Multi's don't stink unless they get wet. Poorly animals obviously wont breed. 
I've been breeding them about 6 years, maybe 7 and occasionally you get a female that'll get preggers, abort or cull litters, not get preggers at all etc but it's very uncommon. 
They can be kept in groups, personally I keep them in 1:1 pairs or 1:2 trios and run the babies in single sex groups to grow them up. I've found litter sizes to be better in 1:1 but babies grow faster due to extra milk in 1:2 groupings. 
Only my personal findings though.


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

Twiglet said:


> They certainly bite like buggers given half a chance but just as with any animal, can be handled safely with out getting bitten.
> The fact that they stank worries me... perhaps they had kidney issues and were drinking too much and so peeing loads? Multi's don't stink unless they get wet. Poorly animals obviously wont breed.
> I've been breeding them about 6 years, maybe 7 and occasionally you get a female that'll get preggers, abort or cull litters, not get preggers at all etc but it's very uncommon.
> They can be kept in groups, personally I keep them in 1:1 pairs or 1:2 trios and run the babies in single sex groups to grow them up. I've found litter sizes to be better in 1:1 but babies grow faster due to extra milk in 1:2 groupings.
> Only my personal findings though.





8legpet said:


> Get some welding gloves if you intend to be in the same room as these vicious little beasts!
> 
> Mine chewed through rubs, wire mesh, and fingers, thumbs, palms etc. In the end they were effectively neutralised and passed to the multi-processing dept (My Royal Viv). People told us they were easy to keep, easy to breed and very productive. I beg to differ on virtually every point. They stank to high heaven, never produced one litter, and as for biting? I'd rather sit and stick pins into myself. I'm certain it would be less painful.





markhill said:


> I satrted with around 1.4 and now have loads.
> 
> I kept them in a group and never removed any males or females as I read that they can be hard to re-introduce into the group once they've been taken out.
> 
> ...


 so if youve heard or had expirience with breeding rats, do you think i would be better off breeding rats?


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

pythonking2010 said:


> so if youve heard or had expirience with breeding rats, do you think i would be better off breeding rats?


You'd definately be better off with rats, I only got Multis for a non feeding Royal and its a pain in the arse to get them back to rats when they have the taste of multis.


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

markhill said:


> You'd definately be better off with rats, I only got Multis for a non feeding Royal and its a pain in the arse to get them back to rats when they have the taste of multis.


One of ours refused multis point blank, awkward git!

Rats make great food but do smell more and need much, much more space to be able to keep them ethically.


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

markhill said:


> You'd definately be better off with rats, I only got Multis for a non feeding Royal and its a pain in the arse to get them back to rats when they have the taste of multis.


thanks  : victory:



Twiglet said:


> One of ours refused multis point blank, awkward git!
> 
> Rats make great food but do smell more and need much, much more space to be able to keep them ethically.


 and ive had rats before, this sounds nasty but i need something that breeds quick. and i think multis would be abut small for the snakes i have


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Twiglet said:


> One of ours refused multis point blank, awkward git!
> 
> Rats make great food but do smell more and need much, much more space to be able to keep them ethically.


thats why I keep mine in the shed: victory:


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

I'd go for rats then. How many snakes have you got? 
We keep our two females in a five foot glass tank (they destroyed anything with a plastic base) and the boys have a converted parrot cage. Both were purchased second hand on the cheap. Rats kept in small cages or (dear god) RUBS get sweaty, stinky and bored. Small cages'll need more regular cleaning obviously too. 
Rats need space and that's their only real downside.


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

Twiglet said:


> I'd go for rats then. How many snakes have you got?
> We keep our two females in a five foot glass tank (they destroyed anything with a plastic base) and the boys have a converted parrot cage. Both were purchased second hand on the cheap. Rats kept in small cages or (dear god) RUBS get sweaty, stinky and bored. Small cages'll need more regular cleaning obviously too.
> Rats need space and that's their only real downside.


 ive only got 2, but i have a 6 foot burm, and a corn snake. and i know what your thinking 'why breed food for 2 snakes' but in the long run its going to be cheaper with the burm, also i have friends with snake and would make money off selling frozen food to them.
also breeding rats would keep me busy


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

pythonking2010 said:


> ive only got 2, but i have a 6 foot burm, and a corn snake. and i know what your thinking 'why breed food for 2 snakes' but in the long run its going to be cheaper with the burm, also i have friends with snake and would make money off selling frozen food to them.
> also breeding rats would keep me busy


I really dont see the point unless you want to keep just a few as pets/breeders and are going to take some enjoyment from keeping them.

It'll take around 4-6 months to get rats upto 6 foot Burm size, thats 4-6 months of feeding, watering and cleaning with little return


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

markhill said:


> I really dont see the point unless you want to keep just a few as pets/breeders and are going to take some enjoyment from keeping them.
> 
> It'll take around 4-6 months to get rats upto 6 foot Burm size, thats 4-6 months of feeding, watering and cleaning with little return


 i know i know.
it would be a hobby aswell, im not one of thos people that raises them like :censor: just because their snake food.
i think theyre quite cute, but would still have them as food to feed to my burm


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

pythonking2010 said:


> ive only got 2, but i have a 6 foot burm, and a corn snake. and i know what your thinking 'why breed food for 2 snakes' but in the long run its going to be cheaper with the burm, also i have friends with snake and would make money off selling frozen food to them.
> also breeding rats would keep me busy


Thats fair enough. In that case, I'd keep two males and two females and introduce one of the males (they cant live on their own) to both girls and take him out and put him back with his bro before the female litter. This means the girls wont immediately get pregnant again and have back to back babies. Two rats should have between them about 20 odd babies so that'll keep you going a while. When you've only got nine or ten weeks of food left, breed them again. This way they get a break and you don't have fifty babies at any one time.
On the burm... we breed 90% of our own food but the big stuff like the retic and the scrubs generally get shop brought rats as we need them BIG and they take up a lot of space and time and money to get to that size.
It's like everything, if you feed the rats on crap food, you'll get crap sized litters of crap babies. 
Feed them a good diet and give them a better environment and you'll get bigger litters of healthier babies that grow faster etc so if you can, try to avoid doing it on the serious cheap. 

Best of luck dude! :no1:


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

markhill said:


> I really dont see the point unless you want to keep just a few as pets/breeders and are going to take some enjoyment from keeping them.
> 
> It'll take around 4-6 months to get rats upto 6 foot Burm size, thats 4-6 months of feeding, watering and cleaning with little return


 and i'd feed sopme smaller ones to my corn, even know he/she is 4 and a half foot, it will only take smaller prey now, so i feed it a few small prey items


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Twiglet said:


> Thats fair enough. In that case, I'd keep two males and two females and introduce one of the males (they cant live on their own) to both girls and take him out and put him back with his bro before the female litter. This means the girls wont immediately get pregnant again and have back to back babies. Two rats should have between them about 20 odd babies so that'll keep you going a while. When you've only got nine or ten weeks of food left, breed them again. This way they get a break and you don't have fifty babies at any one time.
> On the burm... we breed 90% of our own food but the big stuff like the retic and the scrubs generally get shop brought rats as we need them BIG and they take up a lot of space and time and money to get to that size.
> It's like everything, if you feed the rats on crap food, you'll get crap sized litters of crap babies.
> Feed them a good diet and give them a better environment and you'll get bigger litters of healthier babies that grow faster etc so if you can, try to avoid doing it on the serious cheap.
> ...


what do you feed your rats?


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

Twiglet said:


> Thats fair enough. In that case, I'd keep two males and two females and introduce one of the males (they cant live on their own) to both girls and take him out and put him back with his bro before the female litter. This means the girls wont immediately get pregnant again and have back to back babies. Two rats should have between them about 20 odd babies so that'll keep you going a while. When you've only got nine or ten weeks of food left, breed them again. This way they get a break and you don't have fifty babies at any one time.
> On the burm... we breed 90% of our own food but the big stuff like the retic and the scrubs generally get shop brought rats as we need them BIG and they take up a lot of space and time and money to get to that size.
> It's like everything, if you feed the rats on crap food, you'll get crap sized litters of crap babies.
> Feed them a good diet and give them a better environment and you'll get bigger litters of healthier babies that grow faster etc so if you can, try to avoid doing it on the serious cheap.
> ...


thankyou! youve helped alot.
i know the 2 rats ive got are proven because they were my mates so ive seen the litter theyve had.
im getting 2 of her babies tomorrow as he put them with the other female and shes been looking after them.
would i need to take the male back away from my female for her to look after these babies for another 2 weeks or not?


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

also if yous have any pics of your rats, rat litters, and/or set ups. could you post them on this thread so i can take a look please :2thumb:


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

markhill said:


> what do you feed your rats?


A mix of baileys stud mix horse food, mid-level quality dog biscuits, mixed seeds, basic koi fish pellets (strange but true), egg food, kitchen scraps, micronised peas, the odd bit of cat food, mealworms etc and so on. 



pythonking2010 said:


> thankyou! youve helped alot.
> i know the 2 rats ive got are proven because they were my mates so ive seen the litter theyve had.
> *im getting 2 of her babies tomorrow as he put them with the other female and shes been looking after them.
> would i need to take the male back away from my female for her to look after these babies for another 2 weeks or not?*


Sorry, I think I'm being really dim here... Can are you trying to foster over babies to one of your females from another one? Excuse my idiocy...


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

Twiglet said:


> A mix of baileys stud mix horse food, mid-level quality dog biscuits, mixed seeds, basic koi fish pellets (strange but true), egg food, kitchen scraps, micronised peas, the odd bit of cat food, mealworms etc and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I think I'm being really dim here... Can are you trying to foster over babies to one of your females from another one? Excuse my idiocy...


 noo!,
i was supposed to get male female, and her 4 pups.
but he gave me male female and no pups.
so i said i gave you the money, so i want atleast 2.
but with her pups atm, hes put them with his other female! :|, that has a litter already wich i didnt think was a good idea but anyway, so im getting 2 of thos pups back tomorrow, and putting them back with there mum.
but 1 i think mam might attack them and 2 should i take the dad away?


----------



## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

When did that female (who's babies these are) have babies and so how old are babies? If she's only recently littered, give her at least a few weeks to recover etc before putting the male in with her. 
How much success you'll have on reintroductions will depend on the age of the babies. If that female has been without them for long then she wont be lactating any more and so nursing babies would die. I'd be getting the dude who is conning you out of rats you've paid for to keep hold of the babies a bit longer and then you can take them when they are a more useful size and you'd not been paying to feed them for so long lol...


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

Twiglet said:


> When did that female (who's babies these are) have babies and so how old are babies? If she's only recently littered, give her at least a few weeks to recover etc before putting the male in with her.
> How much success you'll have on reintroductions will depend on the age of the babies. If that female has been without them for long then she wont be lactating any more and so nursing babies would die. I'd be getting the dude who is conning you out of rats you've paid for to keep hold of the babies a bit longer and then you can take them when they are a more useful size and you'd not been paying to feed them for so long lol...


 theyre 2 weeks old, they have their eyes open, and they can walk. im not sure if they feed on solids yet though. theyve only been taken off her tonight, when i was round there earlier, she was picking them up with her mouth and being rather motherly lol.
if she can get the babies back and it goes ok, im planning on waiting till shes nursed these babies up to when they can be taken away. and then waiting about a week, so shes had about 5 weeks rest from having the babies.


----------



## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

I'd say that not having any babies for two weeks she wont be producing milk anymore and the babies will likely die.

Best to keep them with the female they're with now for another couple of weeks


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

markhill said:


> I'd say that not having any babies for two weeks she wont be producing milk anymore and the babies will likely die.
> 
> Best to keep them with the female they're with now for another couple of weeks


 no, the babies are 2 weeks old. shes not been with them about a day now. but i got my friends other female that is on her litter of pinks at the moment and shes adopted the little pups and treating them like her own. im going to keep an eye out, but the pups seem to be getting on and snuggling with the pinks


----------



## 8legpet (Mar 25, 2010)

pythonking2010 said:


> so if youve heard or had expirience with breeding rats, do you think i would be better off breeding rats?


We have switched to breeding our own rats. They are a lot easier.

We were lucky to have adopted an irresponsibly bred colony of 22, but with new blood introduced, selective culling and careful management (plus we can off load any extras as (A) Stock for local pet store. (B) Food for other reptile keepers near us.) We have a nice group now that are productive and, to be fair, entertaining.

We feed them on a "own brand" Dried Dog Food from Home Bargain. They eat well, grow well are all healthy and, when the time comes, are nutritious and clean meals for the other animals.

If cost is an issue or you can't off load more than you can produce, just keep same sex couples and put them together once every two month and just freeze off any pups. They gestate about 3 weeks and then I allow a resting period of two weeks post-natal.

Its management and care. You'll never get rich from a small colony, but we break even on cost of care, and savings on not having to "buy in" Plus we know exactly what our Royals & Corns are eating.!


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

8legpet said:


> We have switched to breeding our own rats. They are a lot easier.
> 
> We were lucky to have adopted an irresponsibly bred colony of 22, but with new blood introduced, selective culling and careful management (plus we can off load any extras as (A) Stock for local pet store. (B) Food for other reptile keepers near us.) We have a nice group now that are productive and, to be fair, entertaining.
> 
> ...


 ive got 2 females, and 1 male. the female with the new borns has now adopted the 2 week olds and theyre fine.
what do you think is the best bedding to use for them?


----------



## Wolflore (Mar 3, 2010)

Biocatolet is good as it keeps the smell down well. Some within the rat fancy are using shredded cardboard - intended for horse bedding - but I've got no experience of that.


----------



## 8legpet (Mar 25, 2010)

pythonking2010 said:


> what do you think is the best bedding to use for them?


Dust extracted cat litter.
The removal of the dust is done at factory level by the way. The dust can cause respiratory infections and unhealthy rats wont breed or last as long.

We actually went to [email protected] £20 for a 60litre bag. Same sort of gear is available on eBay. Think on, we have a heck of a lot more rats than you already and some of the litters will be keepers as well as food production. We have established that the 60 litre bag should last approximately 3 months at current clean out rates.

Males smell worse than Females. Ethically never keep them as singles (either sex) but dont mix the sexes unless its a breeding attempt.

The worst mistake you can make is to give the babies names!!! Trust me! We learned the hard way LOL.


----------



## pythonking2010 (Aug 15, 2010)

8legpet said:


> Dust extracted cat litter.
> The removal of the dust is done at factory level by the way. The dust can cause respiratory infections and unhealthy rats wont breed or last as long.
> 
> We actually went to [email protected] £20 for a 60litre bag. Same sort of gear is available on eBay. Think on, we have a heck of a lot more rats than you already and some of the litters will be keepers as well as food production. We have established that the 60 litre bag should last approximately 3 months at current clean out rates.
> ...


 thankyou


----------

