# The Plight of Staffies



## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

Ok I've been to a big city pound, I'm a regular on plenty of rehoming forums, but still it doesn't stop me being in tears when I look at pages like this

Pound Dog Rescue Link Urgent dogs at risk of being put to sleep

Almost every dog on there is a staffy or staffy x. 

I don't know what the answer is. How do you stop :censor:ers from getting dogs as a status symbol and breeding from them for easy money?

It's just so sad. Pretty much every rescue is overrun with them. When we adopted Nika from the pound (a Heinz 57) I would guess over 50% of the dogs there were staffies. If we hadn't taken her our next choice was a lovely white staffie girl. I wish I could have taken them both but at least I know they have a no PTS policy. Now we're ready to get a second rescue I've decided it will be a bull breed because they are the most in need.

So opinions and also positive reports and pics from staffie owners please. They are so, so misunderstood.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive got a staffy cross, she was left alone in our neighbours house for days on end with nobody to care for her. She existed on rubbish from bin bags in the kitchen she was locked in and learned to jump on the worktops to drink from the dripping tap. The RSPCA said they couldnt help unless she was extremely thin so my OH pinned our neighbour up against the wall on one of his visits home and threatened to do him serious damage.
She was about 8 months old at the time and had never been socialised and was understandably the dog from hell. Nobody would have rehomed her as she snapped and screamed if you tried to even touch her.We couldnt bare for her to go into a rescue kennels so we decided to keep her ourselves. Shes now about 5 years old and a real sweety but doesnt take to strangers easily, is as agile as a cat and the biggest thief ever
Good on you for helping out a preloved staffy:2thumb:

Heres a photo of Sadie (Tan dog) with some of her friends. Thank god we have new furniture now lol


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I recently took on a rescue staffy bitch. She is ace. She must of had a hard life previously but now is a sweet heart.


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

Andy said:


> I recently took on a rescue staffy bitch. She is ace. She must of had a hard life previously but now is a sweet heart.


She really is looking good now Andy (and happier!!), you have done wonders with her :no1:


We have a Staffy cross that we took from the breeder as a pup as they have seperated her from mum at a very young age, and had kept her locked away from everyone and everything. She was 12 weeks old and looked like a skeleton of a dog with a tight ginger skin pulled over it She was so scared and nervous and when I picked her up she just pushed herself into me shaking like a leaf! I couldn't leave her there.

I have no idea why they are not a more popular breed, they are so loving, have a gentle nature in general and are so funny! I've got so many stories of mine and their antics. But unfortunately people breed and breed staffy's and theres more pups than homes about 

Anyway here's my Motley Crue lol

Jazz (staffy cross mentioned above)










Millie my Staffy cross Lab who is as daft and as soft as they come and will mother EVERYTHING (was a pebble the other week *sigh*)










and my baby boy who is eitehr a full Staff or a Staffy cross


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## 2manydogs (Oct 23, 2007)

I have no idea why they are not a more popular breed,

i think thats the problem they did get popular and now the market is over saturated,about 14 years ago i was living in dorset and 2 lads that were friends wanted one each so they travelled to birmingham to one of their relatives to get a pup each,nowdays you probably find a litter within 8 miles.


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## animal (Mar 21, 2009)

*I love the staffy*

I have one and a rottie two dogs people love to hate.Mine are both superb with my kids and all round amazing intelligent and loyal. I hate seeing them in pounds as know from mine how loyal She is to put her in a cage would soul destroy her.
People judge them like American pitbulls they are not in the slightest alike in my mind.The pitbull did the staffy alot of damage in the public eye. When I walk mine often people cross the road with their dogs or grab them picking them up ! mine dont even bark or bat a eyelid at them stupid people, its not the breed its the owner makes a dog go bad so why blame the breeds.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

It is very sad. We had one here a while ago who was found straying. She was the cutest little girl ever, although had clearly had repeated litters and had mammary tumours. Sadly, the welfare office knew about her (army camp) and contacted the dog warden. Her owner was notified and she was returned to him, despite the fact she's been taken to the pound after straying the week before. :bash:

I think a huge part of the problem is not only idiots breeding for a 'quick buck' but also the general public who do not understand that to breed a litter properly and health test costs money. They do not want to pay £600 for a well bre ddog, or even £450, so they buy one of the cheap staffies from non health tested parents, either because they haven't bothered to do their research or think it won't happen to them. 

I think staffies are the only breed the kennel club have pretty much begged people to stop breeding.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

i have 2 one is a staffy X called Dutchess she was brought off a lad who didnt want her anymore, he had only had her 1wk.









she is the sofest most stupidest dog you could ever meet :lol2:

next is the newest edition to our family, bailey was only ment to be here on foster, but after a couple of days i fell in love with him an he is now here to stay forever.
I foster for the local kennels who have mostly strays in an they seem to go through snatches with having staffies in, one wk there is none an the next every other dog in there is a staffy, lucky for the dogs they have a none PTS policy. So each an everyone of them find a new home.
Here is some pics of him, he is a lil slim but apart from that is in good health.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

It's tragic. I bet half these dogs are there through no fault of their own but through owners who enjoyed them as puppies and then couldnt be bothered. They were mostly under 3 years!!!

Breeders of staffies really need to look at this page and then really think is it worth it!!

I read the headline "these dogs only have till tomorrow" and though oh now and then read that tomorrow was 26th May and thought oh no these dogs must be dead and underneath thankfully it said "is now safe" and breathed a sigh of relief.
I have nothing against pounds destroying dogs because its painless and quick but i do begrudge them doing it to dogs that have barely started their lives.....

Marina


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Marinam2 said:


> It's tragic. I bet half these dogs are there through no fault of their own but through owners who enjoyed them as puppies and then couldnt be bothered. They were mostly under 3 years!!!
> 
> Breeders of staffies really need to look at this page and then really think is it worth it!!
> 
> ...


I am inclined to agree. One they are there, what are they supposed to do with them? 

However, they shouldn't even end up there in the first place. I regularly get extremely upset at peoples pathetic excuses to rehome their dogs. If the dog was really that important, they'd find a way to keep it. 

Excuses like 'expecting a baby' or 'moving into house that doesn't allow dogs'. Because it is obviously impossible to look after a dog and a baby at the same time,a nd obviously you'd rehome you're children if you were moving into a house that didn't acceptt hem?! No, you'd find a house that did... :devil:

Someone here has just rehomed a dog. 6 month old pup, rehoming due to a new baby. Well, she was pregnant when she got the puppy, what did she think was going to happen other than giving birth?! :censor:

It is worse with staffies, but with all dogs. It is hardest for staffies to find homes, I think. The way people treat animals makes me sick.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> i have 2 one is a staffy X called Dutchess she was brought off a lad who didnt want her anymore, he had only had her 1wk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 But why do people insist on putting those bloody stupid whacking great thick leather harnesses, all studded with a kilo or two of brass,on them. They do the breed's image no good at all as they imply that the dog is a savage animal which needs industrial strength equipment to keep them under control and prevent them from killing anything which crosses their path.


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> But why do people insist on putting those bloody stupid whacking great thick leather harnesses, all studded with a kilo or two of brass,on them. They do the breed's image no good at all as they imply that the dog is a savage animal which needs industrial strength equipment to keep them under control and prevent them from killing anything which crosses their path.


that is were you are completely wrong, my dog is in a harness to pull, not to look hard, or for any other reason then to use the harness to what it has been made for, it is not heaviley studded an what i walk my dogs in has nothing to do with you, my mates staffy wears a halti which in my opinion made the dog look 10 times worse, people did not see it as a anti pulling device but as a muzzle!!!!! they would happily walk nxt to my dog but avoid the other staffy.

People regards of breed etc can an will walk their dogs in what they see fit, now i wonder if it had been a plain old leather harness or a fabic one you would have not said the things you did.

MY staffy does not look like she is gonna kill anything THANK YOU very much


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> But why do people insist on putting those bloody stupid whacking great thick leather harnesses, all studded with a kilo or two of brass,on them. They do the breed's image no good at all as they imply that the dog is a savage animal which needs industrial strength equipment to keep them under control and prevent them from killing anything which crosses their path.


Sorry but you need to open your eyes more.I've never judge a staffie or any bull breed by it's harness.You look past the harness to the lead up the lead onto a hand up the hand then you find what you need to judge.And most of the time that a false reading.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> that is were you are completely wrong, my dog is in a harness to pull, not to look hard, or for any other reason then to use the harness to what it has been made for, it is not heaviley studded an what i walk my dogs in has nothing to do with you, my mates staffy wears a halti which in my opinion made the dog look 10 times worse, people did not see it as a anti pulling device but as a muzzle!!!!! they would happily walk nxt to my dog but avoid the other staffy.
> 
> People regards of breed etc can an will walk their dogs in what they see fit, now i wonder if it had been a plain old leather harness or a fabic one you would have not said the things you did.
> 
> MY staffy does not look like she is gonna kill anything THANK YOU very much


 You were on about the plight of staffies and I gave my opinion on the impression those big thick leather studded harnesses give the breed. If you choose not to accept that this is the opinion that other people might share, that is entirely up to you.
Just out of interest, why would you actually want to encourage your dog to pull your arms out of their sockets when taking it for a walk? What does having it straining at the leash, scrabbling with it's front paws actually achieve?
Again, to someone who doesn't own a staffy but has 20 dogs of other breeds, if I saw a dog like this straining at the leash, scrabbling and yanking the owners arms about, it would tell me that the owner was a complete twerp, unable to control their dog and train it to walk properly on a lead and who wanted other people to think that they have a 'hard' dog.
Should I put my 65kg rottie X newfie into an industiral strength rhino leather harness and train him to drag me along in order to impress people?
<thinks>
no, I don't think I'll bother. I get way more pleasure having folks look at him in admiration, impressed at his sheer size, but gentle good manners.
Whatever floats yer boat though love. Just don't whinge and whine about staffies having bad press when you are helping to maintain that press.
Staffies have such a plight because they get bought by numb-nuts who want people to think they are 'hard'. Usually the same numb-nuts have social issues and are some of life's inadequates and as such, they are incapable of being responsible dog owners as they aren't even responsible human beings. So they get rid of the dog once it becomes difficult to live with the (usually) untrained and antisocial creature it becomes.
I like the breed very much and may be lucky enough to own one, one day. If I do, it will not be allowed to pull, but walked in a calm and polite manner wherever I go so that people will look at it in admiration, not fear and distrust.
There is a lady in my nearest town who has 2 staffies which are fully trained P.A.T. dogs. They are ambassadors fro the breed as they walk about town with their yellow P.A.T. dog jackets on, calm and happy and friendly with big smiles on their faces for everyone and tails whirring like propellors.
Stand next to them with your scrabbling straining pulling leather clad dog and I know which one gets the better press.
If I was walking any of my 'tinies and came across a calm and well behaved staffy like the 2 P.A.T. dogs, I wouldn't be concerned. However, if I came across a numpty with a scrabbling lunging dog in a harness strong enough to be worn by a cart horse, I would pick them up and have my Ursa come close in order to do his job and protect them and me if needed.
Only my opinion of course and I'm sure you'll tell me I am wrong.:lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> Sorry but you need to open your eyes more.I've never judge a staffie or any bull breed by it's harness.You look past the harness to the lead up the lead onto a hand up the hand then you find what you need to judge.And most of the time that a false reading.


 You have never judged a staffy by the hardware it's wearing. Well good oh.
You have the breed. You probably use all that leather stuff and will try to justify it.
I am speaking as a normal non staffy owning person and my opinion isn't unusual at all. It will be shared by other non staffy owning people.
If people who owned cocker spaniels put them into thick leather harnesses all studded with brass and encouraged them to pull and lunge instead of walking calmly on a lead, then you can bet that cocker spaniels would be viewed as ill behaved dogs which are largely owned by tatooed, antisocial numbskulls, too.
Why should I have to look up the lead? What will that achieve as I make eye contact with usually a young male, unsure of his place in society, but who wants to be seen as 'macho' and is too timid himself, so wants to make himself feel brave by owning a small dog, in a big leather harness, which strains and pulls on the lead.
If all staffies were owned by good sensible intelligent people, why are there so many in rescue?
Compared to other breeds, they, along with Akitas and Rotties are generally bought by a certain 'type' of person. The same types who end up in jail, deal drugs, arrange dog fights, are foul mouthed, antisocial chavs who generally live in social housing.
Either they are bought by the 'wrong' sort of people, or they are as a whole breed, problematic dogs.
So which is it do you think?
You don't have the same problems with other breeds of dog like for instance cavalier king charles, chihuahuas, lhasa apsos etc. Is it because they are generally bought by more responsible people or that they are less of a problem breed?

There is definately a problem with staffies and I'm trying to ascertain whether the problem is with the breed, or with the 'type' of person who wants to own such a breed.
A very good friend of mine owns rescue kennels and she dreads getting staffies and rotties in. Not because she dislikes the breeds, because she actually likes them and has a pet Rottie herself, but because of the tattoed ASBOs from the roughest council estate in town, who phone her asking if they can adopt them.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> why would you actually want to encourage your dog to pull your arms out of their sockets when taking it for a walk? What does having it straining at the leash, scrabbling with it's front paws actually achieve?


When beardedlady said she wants her dog to pull she's likly refering to training for weight pulling.The modern bull breed passtime.









My staffie walk fine with a harness.Staffies beleave or not can spook esay.For example a bin that's not there one day but there the next.And they very easy back walk on you out the collar.They can't slip out a harness like that can a collar.You can train a dog with NO! lead to walk beside you.And you deffo can train a dog in a harness to walk beside you.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

gazz said:


> When beardedlady said she wants her dog to pull she's likly refering to training for weight pulling.The modern bull breed passtime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, the dog in that picture is not wearing a huge studded leather collar, is it?!

I have to say (never thought I would...) that I agree with Fenwoman on this one. I think the leather studded.metal embellishe dcollar and harnesses staffies wear look horrendous and do nothing for the breed. It is simply perpetuating their 'hard mans dog' image. 

If they need a harness, what is wrong with a normal harness that isn't leather or studded? It would do the job just as well, and look less imtimidating to joe public.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> You have never judged a staffy by the hardware it's wearing. Well good oh.
> You have the breed. You probably use all that leather stuff and will try to justify it.


Yes i'm a staffie owner and yes she has a lether harness with brass breat plate.How ever if you think i'm trying to be a hard man let me tell you the the harness my staffy has is bright girly PINK.For a girly soft soppy stupid friendly staffie.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

gazz said:


> My staffie walk fine with a harness.Staffies beleave or not can spook esay.For example a bin that's not there one day but there the next.And they very easy back walk on you out the collar.They can't slip out a harness like that can a collar.You can train a dog with NO! lead to walk beside you.And you deffo can train a dog in a harness to walk beside you.


Thats true, my two get spooked by inanimate objects all the time. Bins, bikes,scarecrows all make them uneasy. I think its up to people what they want to put on their dogs if people think a leather harness makes the dogs look aggresive or unruly then then thats their problem. I dont use them by the way.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> If all staffies were owned by good sensible intelligent people, why are there so many in rescue?
> Compared to other breeds, they, along with Akitas and Rotties are generally bought by a certain 'type' of person. The same types who end up in jail, deal drugs, arrange dog fights, are foul mouthed, antisocial chavs who generally live in social housing.


Not all staffie or any dog owner are sensible intelligenr people.But you seem to have one bucket of tar and only one brush.

The sad truth is these unsavory people are marking up there game and staffies are considered too small for there liking(maybe part the for meny being in rescue).Chav's,Gang's'etc are going bigger.Rotties,mastsiffs,staffie cross large bull breed and other large breed cross's.Coz you can really get done for just having a dog only when the dog does somthing.Like you can a knife or gun a dog they can set and walk away leaving almost no trace of them self.It's very frighteing that this is of thing to come.So your New foundland X Rottie could very easy be the next stereotype over the next comming years.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

midori said:


> Well, the dog in that picture is not wearing a huge studded leather collar, is it?!


Course not it's pulling there no need for fashion wear on a pulling strip.

Bullbreed harness's are only fashion where.There not bulky or heavy.I know you can use any type of harness but why should you.Poeple have a stereotype of the staffie not the harness.Put a British bulldog in a harness you won't get the same reaction as people don't view British bulldogs as a threat.It's people seeing with media eyes not there own.


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

can i join in ???

here is my irish staffy Charlie










he is full of scars from a road traffic accident, blind in one eye, 


















he is soft as shit, actually sits down when other dogs try to even sniff him, he has a lovely coat for when it rains and he loves his cuddles and big kisses, and acts like a big baby, 


























































the only thing he doesn't like is cats, and thats because they are plain evil and the creation of the devil


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## 2manydogs (Oct 23, 2007)

thats a strong stuff collar isnt it?


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

i have sat an read ya posts fenwoman an it has already been said u tar every bull breed owner with the same brush!!!!

My dogs do not scrabble around on their harness's they have a gentle pull which bulids up there muscles an gives them a good work out, which is more then some people do with there dogs!!! My dogs have a job to do an it keeps them focused on what they need to do.

YOU do not know how my staffie's work so how on earth can you comment, you do not know how my dogs are when they meet an greet people an beleive me they do alot of that. 

You have guessed at what YOU might think my dog looks like when out walking you havent got a clue!!!!! Its not me given the dogs a bad rep its people like you who think that because they have 20 dogs they know every dog breed an what they are like, its your ignorance an judgemental attitude that gives these bad dogs a name.

If i was that a bad dog owner do you really think i would be fostering dogs for the local kennel???? If i was a CHAV!!! do you really think they would let me take on another staffie?????? please dont tar me with the same brush, the origional OP was asking for pics of staffies an what peoples thoughts where about them in the kennels, now i answered because i have one, an foster many dogs from the kennels, i knew it wouldnt be long before you came in an found something wrong with someones post!!!

People go on about this part of the forum being the worst for not being able to do or voice ya opinion an they where right!!!!!

i have posted to the OP'S post an im not saying anymore, i know my dogs are well loved an well cared for if you want to have blinkers on then thats your problem not mine!!!!


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

oh an one more thing they both walk to heel on their collars so yes my dogs are trained to walk to heel but dutch knows that when her harness goes on its work time


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

2manydogs said:


> thats a strong stuff collar isnt it?


that was the collar he arrived in, its gone now, 










thats his new one /\


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## daisyleo (Nov 23, 2006)

I can't be bothered with the bitching side of all this so I will keep my opinion to myself as usual with this forum it all goes sour very fast.

I have 2 staffies, we live in our own house, I do not wear tracksuits tucked into my socks, rockport, nor gold earrings you could perch an african grey on!

However I am very passionate about staffies, I hate the way they are seen as "status" dogs but like others have said they aren't the ONLY breed that has this name, i.e. rotties, mastiffs etc. are fast becoming the dog to be seen with.

I think some of the leather harnesses *pink ones etc as mentioned earlier* are attractive and if they are not causing the dog any injury (we ordered one from ebay some years ago and it rubbed under my bitches arm pit so we sent it back) what difference does it make what the harness is made from?!
Yes some are totally OTT and have spikes and what not on, that is just stupid and luckily I don't witness many of them around here.

My staffies (and our two jack russells) always wear harnesses, the material type not leather, and this was out of choice as like someone else mentioned my big lad got spooked one day by a butcher closing his shutters down for the night and tried to pull from his collar.
also he used to pull badly and rather than let him choke himself to death each time we walked him as we were training him we thought a harness would be easier on his neck and also on us trying to have more "control" over him.

My bitch walks proud as punch in her harness, I bet she doesn't even know she is wearing it until she tries to pull into someones garden for a nosey about and I pull her back, she has good manners and to be honest i've never met a staffy who hadn't got good manners.
They are excitable dogs I find and always ready to jump on the lap for a lick of the face but this is where good dog ownership comes into it and you have to be ready to discipline those things should the time arise.

I always ask/warn people if they are going to fuss the dogs they will try and stand up with them as they love to be cuddled and fussed.

Anyway, that site is heartbreaking! like I said we have the 2 right now a bitch and a dog but in years to come I hope to one day be able to help "rescues" out with the staffs they seem over run with


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

There should be some sort of licence you need to breed dogs. So annoying.

I want to take them all its so sad.


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

i reckon in about 5-7 years the recues will be overrun by american bulldogs, mastiffs, presas, corso's, pit bulls, AM staffs, rottys, as *ALL* the chavs around here are walking around with them. staffies are to small now for status symbols, if 2 friends have ie..american bulldogs the others won't go smaller with staffs they have to go same size or bigger, all nobheads either way, 

personally i love the molosser breeds and would love to own a johnsons american bulldog, but my Charlie is my main priority, i hate chavs and think they should all be gassed in a bunker by the thousands..............


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> Not all staffie or any dog owner are sensible intelligenr people.But you seem to have one bucket of tar and only one brush.
> 
> The sad truth is these unsavory people are marking up there game and staffies are considered too small for there liking(maybe part the for meny being in rescue).Chav's,Gang's'etc are going bigger.Rotties,mastsiffs,staffie cross large bull breed and other large breed cross's.Coz you can really get done for just having a dog only when the dog does somthing.Like you can a knife or gun a dog they can set and walk away leaving almost no trace of them self.It's very frighteing that this is of thing to come.So your New foundland X Rottie could very easy be the next stereotype over the next comming years.


 I'm not tarring anyone. I asked a question.
given that so many staffies are in rescue, there can only be 2 reasons for this on the whole. Either bad owners or the breed is bad.
So which is it?
I'm not talking about the odd individual case and genuine reasons but the majority.
I'm not talking about any other breed since the ones you mention don't have a massive problem and the rescue kennels all over the country are not filled to the rafters with them.
If my Ursa becomes a stereotype for his particular cross, I shall be very proud indeed, as a more friendly, dignified, and gentle dog, I have never owned. He is well known locally and wherever he goes he collects more fans.


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## cubeykc (Aug 8, 2008)

some people really have gave these dogs a bad name when iv taken my staffie out i get nothing but dirty looks but when iv walked my mums lab i get people coming up and stroking it


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

RasperAndy said:


> can i join in ???
> 
> here is my irish staffy Charlie
> 
> ...


Irish staff? Isn't that just another name for a pitbull?


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## cubeykc (Aug 8, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Irish staff? Isn't that just another name for a pitbull?


no its not The Irish Stafford is not a breed,it is a breed type.They are leaner and usually taller than your average staffies


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

beardedlady said:


> i have sat an read ya posts fenwoman an it has already been said u tar every bull breed owner with the same brush!!!!
> 
> My dogs do not scrabble around on their harness's they have a gentle pull which bulids up there muscles an gives them a good work out, which is more then some people do with there dogs!!! My dogs have a job to do an it keeps them focused on what they need to do.
> 
> ...


 Please get off your high horse and learn to read. I took great pains to make clear that what I wrote was a generalisation. I generalised about what non staffy owning people think when they see 'a' staffy (not yours in particular) in a huge thick leather harness, pulling their owner along.
I'm not sure what job you think your staffy cross has, or why big muscles make him more able to do this job.
Yes I own 20 dogs, and have been involved in dogs for probably more decades than you have been alive and on almost every level, so yes, I think I do know a bit about dogs. I also used to write for a magazine and now run an advice line. people talk to me about dogs, so the comment I made about what sort of impression people get from a staffy wearing a big harness and apparently not under the owner's control, is a comment made because this is what people tell me.
Since I am involved in rescue, and have a good friend who runs her own rescue kennels, who talks to me about the plight of staffies (and rotties), I think I know a little about it. During our many conversations, we have discussed why this particular breed has so many thousands of dogs in trouble and in kennels. I asked the question of someone experienced in bull breeds (gazz) that since so many were in rescue, was it because the breed was bad, or that generally, the majority of people who bought them, were bad.
At no stage did I ever make any direct reference to you, your dog, or your ability to be a good dog owner.(apart from my initial question about why yours wore the huge thick studded harness).
After reading back my posts, I still cannot see where you were able to read anything which indicates that I was making a reference to you personally.
I was asking generally and assumed that my posts were fairly easy to read and understand. Obviously not by some though.
Stop being such a drama queen, it isn't all about you. In fact you don't figure at all in my thoughts.
And if anyone is able to answer my question as to why such a large percentage of this breed, languishes in rescue, I would appreciate it.
I said before, (although someone was so eager to make it personal that they seemed to have missed it), I like the breed, have always liked the breed and my late grandmother bred and showed the breed.I'm not biased against the breed, just against some of the people which I see with the breed and some of the people who ask my friend if they can adopt the ones she has in her kennels.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstandings and clarifies things.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

and if anyone is interested in adopting a staffy or any dog from ym friend's kennels, here is the URL.
homes 4 dogs

Tell her Pam (that's me) put the info on here.


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## fletch (May 26, 2008)

I would like to hazard a guess at why so my staffies are in rescue - one of two types of people. Type one being your common chav, already much discussed in this thread. The other type, sadly becoming much more common than the "chav" is the "I want one of those now" who don't look into the ins and outs of dog ownership, see a cute cuddly puppy and then rehome it when they realise that dogs need time, training, money spending on vet care, neutering, flea treatment, worming, food, toys etc. They rehome them at the drop of a hat because they are "moving house" or are "pregnant" or their child becomes "allergic" - more likely that the puppy chews, bites, soils in the house, cries at night - the usual things that puppies tend to do but they are unaware of because they didn't do any research. 

Of course the type 2 owner doesn't just purchase staffies, they buy all sorts of breeds and other types of pets too, but because staffies are usually bred by type 1's who have very little in the way of brain cells and sell them to anyone and usually cheaply, they are easier to find and buy. 

The problem isn't with the breed any more so than with any other breed. The problem lies with people. A colleague of my OH bought a Weimeraner because it was the same colour as her sofa and promptly rehomed it at 5 months old when it destroyed the same sofa! 

As the owner of four staffies, who don't wear leather harnesses because I believe it makes them look like "chav" dogs who live on estates near me, I am dismayed at the state the breed is getting into. These dogs make, for the right type of owner, wonderfully loyal, child friendly companions. There are breeds which I would love to own but never will as they wouldn't suit what I can offer. I know this because I bothered to research carefully what breed of dogs I wanted to own and put my dogs and other pets before everything else. I chose them and there would be very few circumstances that would necessitate us parting ways. 

I just wish everybody would consider carefully before buying any pet what it entails and make sure they can give that pet what they need for the rest of their lives.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I also dont like the big studded harnesses and collars that are sold for Staffs as I think it gives the wrong impression. At a petshop near me they sell huge black collars with studs and rottie emblems on them, very ornate looking things but I wont be buying one for my Rottie as its bad enough when I walk him now with people crossing the road to avoid us. I wouldnt mind he is a real sweety and very people friendly


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Irish staff? Isn't that just another name for a pitbull?


nope, 

irish staffordshire bull terriers have longer legs and longer faces, 

but i understand what your saying, years ago when people smuggled pitbulls into the country and bred them, they were sold as "irish staffs" as they were illegal and irish staffs wasn't, when the police put a clamp down on pitbulls and pitbull types and were destroying dogs, more and more "irish staffs" were popping up everywhere, 

someone says is that a pitbull, the reply was no its an irish, so they don't grass you up

then the police got wind of it after several years too late like usual, and mentioned that pitbulls and pitbulls types were nicknamed "irish staffys" so the whole of this country started walking around quite ignorant and saying 

Q.what type of dog is that

A. its a irish staffy

oh its a pitbull then, (then walk away without listening to anything as there mind is made up.)


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## RasperAndy (Sep 21, 2007)

quote from the irsh bull terrier site


_We cant tell you what has gone into the Irish Staffordshire lines of today. As Jo Bloggs down the road might be putting all sorts of mixed up dogs into the Irish lines, who knows other than the people that are doing it. If they are saying to you that they are of an old type Stafford, like a red nose, Blue nose, the American Stafford. Well then its definitely not an Irish Stafford is it. We haven’t got any thing against Pit-Bulls, Blue nose, Red nose, Am-Staffords ect ect. _
_Just Do Not Confuse The Irish Staffordshire with those types of dogs. We find the Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a wonderful outstanding breed of dog, with all the characteristics of what a Staffordshire Bull Terrier should be like, And very proud to own them. _
_The reason people think that they are Pit bulls is mainly there size, Just Slightly Bigger then the average Kennel Club Dog. But back in the day that was the size of a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The kennel Club breed them down in size, mainly for showing. _​


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## cubeykc (Aug 8, 2008)

feltch

quite a few of my friends who are classed as chav have staffies and they are the most well looked dog iv ever seen yes you do get some 'chavs' that couldnt care about there staffies and misstreat them but not all


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

I think there are so many staffs and Xs in rescues because there are just so many bred and they are then sold on quickly/cheaply without any care or thought into where they're going by the seller. The buyer sees a cute puppy and has one without properly thinking it through, then realising they can't be bothered to train them or walk them or whatever rubbish reason they off load them.

I also think divorce and separations factor in; people may have to go into rented that often won't take animals. Perhaps some people think that they won't be able to offer a dog what it needs during this time or aren't willing to and think it better to rehome?

There are lots of staffys and Xs around my area but I've noticed that the majority are usually with people who're middle aged and older. The only one I see with someone who dresses in a chavvy way is a lovely dog, obviously well cared for and loved.

Jo


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)




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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

oooooh look at picture 3 down.:gasp: There is a trail of blood across the mat from his last victim.....:lol2:


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

Andy I just love your lad, he's :flrt::flrt::flrt: I especially like the 4th one down - "It wasn't me Dad, promise"

Jo


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

:lol2: Fenny

Andy, picture 4 is just soooooooooooooo cute!


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## beardedlady (Jan 22, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Please get off your high horse and learn to read. I took great pains to make clear that what I wrote was a generalisation. I generalised about what non staffy owning people think when they see 'a' staffy (not yours in particular) in a huge thick leather harness, pulling their owner along.
> *I'm not sure what job you think your staffy cross has, or why big muscles make him more able to do this job.*
> Yes I own 20 dogs, and have been involved in dogs for probably more decades than you have been alive and on almost every level, so yes, I think I do know a bit about dogs. I also used to write for a magazine and now run an advice line. people talk to me about dogs, so the comment I made about what sort of impression people get from a staffy wearing a big harness and apparently not under the owner's control, is a comment made because this is what people tell me.
> Since I am involved in rescue, and have a good friend who runs her own rescue kennels, who talks to me about the plight of staffies (and rotties), I think I know a little about it. During our many conversations, we have discussed why this particular breed has so many thousands of dogs in trouble and in kennels. I asked the question of someone experienced in bull breeds (gazz) that since so many were in rescue, was it because the breed was bad, or that generally, the majority of people who bought them, were bad.
> ...


 
fistly my dog is happy with a job in life if you knew half the problems i have had with that bitch then you wouldnt make silly comments, she has been ill an lost alot of weight an muscle so she had to have it built up so please you get off your high horse just cos you have done this an that you think you are above everyone else,If you have this great contact with kennels bla bla then why didnt you answer the question that was put up instead of picking out a pic of MY dog an impleying that IM chav bla bla bla,i can read thank you very much an you did not genrelize you tared every staffy owner with the same brush!!!!
If i want my dog in a harness to pull then i will, do i care what people like you think NO i know my dogs are well cared for an loved an have the best possible life here, she wont be breed thats not what i got her for an working with the dog kennels i see the aftermath of people over breeding for a quick buck.

I have sat an reread your post an you didnt genrelize at all now You go learn to read an then come back with an answer!!! So its my fault that staffies have a bad name??? because mines pulls in a harness that has a few brass bits on!!!!! I THINK NOT DO NOT tar me with that same brush you keep waving around.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> I'm not tarring anyone. I asked a question.
> given that so many staffies are in rescue, there can only be 2 reasons for this on the whole. Either bad owners or the breed is bad.


Bad owners.Deffo not the breed.From the dog being to bouncy and not being able to control it.To the owner just can't be bother no more.It's all the falt of the OWNER.



fenwoman said:


> If my Ursa becomes a stereotype for his particular cross, I shall be very proud indeed, as a more friendly, dignified, and gentle dog, I have never owned. He is well known locally and wherever he goes he collects more fans.


Your missing the point.YOU! rased Ursa to be a loyal loved pet.A part of the family just like meny staffie owners.Do you really have your eyes close that tight.That your think chav's/gang's'etc couldn't tern a New foundland cross rottie into a monster.These people are now wanting dog just like Ursa to use as a weapon.You really think such a cross couldn't be trained to attack.Or attack people when no trained properly.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Irish staff? Isn't that just another name for a pitbull?


In a word NO! Irish staff's that IMO should be called Irish bull terrier.Has no APBT blood.Irish bull terriers have the blood of a bull terrier breed called the Blue paul terrier running through there vains that Staffordshire bull terriers & English bull terriers don't have.Blue paul terier was created in Ireland around the time of Staffordshire bull terriers & English bull terrers was being deveoped in the UK.The Blue paul terrier is a extincted breed.What's left is the Irish bull terrier the thing that makes a Irish bull terrier differant than a Staffordshire bull terrier or English bull terrier is Irish bull terrier have the blood of the Kerry blue terrier ofcourse not exsticted.Kerry blue terrier was use in the creation of the Blue paul terrier.Which then got involed in the creation of the Irish bull terrier which faded the Blue paul terrier out to extinction.

*Blue paul terrier.*
*







*


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## fletch (May 26, 2008)

cubeykc said:


> feltch
> 
> quite a few of my friends who are classed as chav have staffies and they are the most well looked dog iv ever seen yes you do get some 'chavs' that couldnt care about there staffies and misstreat them but not all


 
My OH would be classed as a "chav" seeing as he has a skinhead and tattoos. My neighbour who is an ex heroin addict and looks like one has the most wonderful staffie too. I don't base my definition of a "chav" solely by looks, more by behaviour. "Chavs" are easy to spot when you look at the whole person.


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

fletch said:


> *My OH would be classed as a "chav" seeing as he has a skinhead and tattoos*. My neighbour who is an ex heroin addict and looks like one has the most wonderful staffie too. I don't base my definition of a "chav" solely by looks, more by behaviour. "Chavs" are easy to spot when you look at the whole person.


Yup, I'm married to a chav as well; skinhead, tattoo and hoodies :gasp: Not sure how many other chavs work 60 hour weeks though :2thumb:

Jo


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gazz said:


> Bad owners.Deffo not the breed.From the dog being to bouncy and not being able to control it.To the owner just can't be bother no more.It's all the falt of the OWNER.
> 
> 
> 
> Your missing the point.YOU! rased Ursa to be a loyal loved pet.A part of the family just like meny staffie owners.Do you really have your eyes close that tight.That your think chav's/gang's'etc couldn't tern a New foundland cross rottie into a monster.These people are now wanting dog just like Ursa to use as a weapon.You really think such a cross couldn't be trained to attack.Or attack people when no trained properly.


 No I don't think I am missing the point.There is a reason that particular breeds are used or even crossed, to produce protection dogs etc.Think about the breeds, all have a particularly strong guarding instinct/prey drive. Rotties, yes, but the bull breeds, bullmastiffs and various mastiffs from around the world with a reputation for being 'game' or arrogant and headstrong.

Luckily, my Ursa, and others I know of from the same cross, tend to have inherited the Newfie's laid back and loyal nature. If I wanted to breed a bandog or protection dog, I would not want to risk the dog having a soft side so I certainly would not use Newfoundland in the mix. I'd cross my Rottie with a dogue, or neo, or boerboel.
Add to that the soft fluffy looks of a rottie cross newf and it makes one even less desireable.Let's face it, as far as 'image' goes, not many people will be intimidated by something which looks like a teddy bear and is a Newfie cross.Even the name 'Newfie' doesn't sound as scary as 'staff', 'pitbull' 'bandog' etc.


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## emasmad (May 30, 2009)

*dogs*

i totally agree with you there about her slating the bull breeds i am a owner of a british bulldog and she slated me to the ground about him, saying my dog was a aggressive dog and he is far from that just cuz he nipped me cuz i moved his bone well my fault he is protective over it and i knew that, to which he was banned from bones in the house, every bull breed owner that has put a thread in she has slated and im fed up up with it and she should get reported as many people have had enough of her wish i new how to!








beardedlady said:


> i have sat an read ya posts fenwoman an it has already been said u tar every bull breed owner with the same brush!!!!
> 
> My dogs do not scrabble around on their harness's they have a gentle pull which bulids up there muscles an gives them a good work out, which is more then some people do with there dogs!!! My dogs have a job to do an it keeps them focused on what they need to do.
> 
> ...


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

emasmad said:


> i totally agree with you there about her slating the bull breeds i am a owner of a british bulldog and she slated me to the ground about him, saying my dog was a aggressive dog and he is far from that just cuz he nipped me cuz i moved his bone well my fault he is protective over it and i knew that, to which he was banned from bones in the house, every bull breed owner that has put a thread in she has slated and im fed up up with it and she should get reported as many people have had enough of her wish i new how to!


 I never slated you because you have a bulldog. I never slated bull breeds. Read the whole thread you silly girl. how can I slate a breed I love and which my grandmother used to breed, show, and judge?
I slated you because you advertised your dog for 'nipping' and said you were afraid to let it near your child because it had 'nipped' it. Then you backtracked when others aswell as myself told you that you were wrong to use a biter at stud and irresponsible to try to sell the dog on given that it had bitten several times. You then denied that it bit (a nip is a bite), said your child was allowed to hug the dog and it only nipped when it had a bone (despite it having bitten the child for touching its ear).You said that you were so afraid of the dog nipping/biting your child that it spent its life locked in the kitchen alone. Several people recommended breed rescue because it is totally irresponsible to rehome a biter, but obviously you wanted your £1000 (or £750 as you seem to have different prices), and rescue won't buy dogs.
Now you feel hard done by because I, and others, told you you weren't being realistic or telling the truth.

Here is the original post you made:


> i have a male british bulldog forsale he is 2 1/2 yrs old and must go to a loving/caring home with no young children as he may nip now and again he is kc reg and a good breeder


 so you admit that he has bitten several times and you have already used him at stud despite his temperament.

But when challenged you said:


> i have 2 the one that nip's is off to a family members house to live today and at least that way i can still stay in contact with him the one for stud is nothing like him and is always around the children i wouldnt stud a aggressive dog out anyway


 So if you have 2, and this one has not been used at stud, why advertise him saying he is kc reg and a good breeder?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I agree with Fenwoman and never saw her slating the breed at all. People who want protection dogs or dogs that make them look tough dont go for fluffy cute dogs now do they? You ever seen a gang of youths strutting the streets with a dog that looks like a Teddy bear?? I think not

I found your bulldog thread very confusing first you changed the price then the story................................very odd


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## emasmad (May 30, 2009)

both dogs are around the children i have never been afraid of letting him around the children yes he does spend his life in a big kitchen and the garden, they come in the sitting room occassionaly as i like a nice sitting room not one full of dog hairs, but the one that nips will never be left with the child and no will any other dog as no can ever be trusted no matter how much u trust them as recently the news would of told u, when he nipped my boy he never drew blood and he had a ear infection at the time, anyone would get arsy if they had a ear infection doesnt mean the dog should have a bad name, i myself have never studded any of my dogs so dont know where u got that from he was used for a stud by previous owner! both my dogs are kc reg and one is up for stud, but nr enough every thread i have read bout bull breeds and rotties u have slated and its not nice as you do not know the dog so shouldnt judge



fenwoman said:


> I never slated you because you have a bulldog. I never slated bull breeds. Read the whole thread you silly girl. how can I slate a breed I love and which my grandmother used to breed, show, and judge?
> I slated you because you advertised your dog for 'nipping' and said you were afraid to let it near your child because it had 'nipped' it. Then you backtracked when others aswell as myself told you that you were wrong to use a biter at stud and irresponsible to try to sell the dog on given that it had bitten several times. You then denied that it bit (a nip is a bite), said your child was allowed to hug the dog and it only nipped when it had a bone (despite it having bitten the child for touching its ear).You said that you were so afraid of the dog nipping/biting your child that it spent its life locked in the kitchen alone. Several people recommended breed rescue because it is totally irresponsible to rehome a biter, but obviously you wanted your £1000 (or £750 as you seem to have different prices), and rescue won't buy dogs.
> Now you feel hard done by because I, and others, told you you weren't being realistic or telling the truth.
> 
> ...


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## emasmad (May 30, 2009)

*bull breeds*

dont know why you have to be horrible to every one and add things that were never said ! you are upsetting to many people on here and you should stop it and do ya own things


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

emasmad said:


> both dogs are around the children i have never been afraid of letting him around the children yes he does spend his life in a big kitchen and the garden, they come in the sitting room occassionaly as i like a nice sitting room not one full of dog hairs, but the one that nips will never be left with the child and no will any other dog as no can ever be trusted no matter how much u trust them as recently the news would of told u, when he nipped my boy he never drew blood and he had a ear infection at the time, anyone would get arsy if they had a ear infection doesnt mean the dog should have a bad name, *i myself have never**studded any of my dogs* so dont know where u got that from he was used for a stud by previous owner! both my dogs are kc reg *and one is up* *for stud*, but nr enough every thread i have read bout bull breeds and rotties u have slated and its not nice as you do not know the dog so shouldnt judge


 
This is why Im confused......... and by the way Fenwomn loves Rotties and bull breeds so I dont know where you have got information that from


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

emasmad said:


> i totally agree with you there about her slating the bull breeds i am a owner of a british bulldog and she slated me to the ground about him, saying my dog was a aggressive dog and he is far from that just cuz he nipped me cuz i moved his bone well my fault he is protective over it and i knew that, to which he was banned from bones in the house, every bull breed owner that has put a thread in she has slated and im fed up up with it and she should get reported as many people have had enough of her wish i new how to!


What a load of nonsense. If Fenny slated you at all it was because you were rehoming your supposedly beloved dog rather than spend time and/or money sorting out it's minor issues.

It had absolutley :censor: all to do with it being a bulldog.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> This is why Im confused.........


I thought it was just me :blush:
Maybe s/he means s/he has never bred his/her dog to his/her bitch? hmm....


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

And I started this thread to highlight a serious issue. So Emasmad, if you don't mind could you please make a new post if you want to air some sort of grievance. 

I do not want to see my post, which is about staffies (and other bull breeds) being abandoned - Oh, the irony of it! -locked by the mods thank you very much.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> I thought it was just me :blush:
> Maybe s/he means s/he has never bred his/her dog to his/her bitch? hmm....


 
Dunno but its giving me a headache:lol2:

I agree this thread doesnt need locking it just needs people to recognise the plight of the staffy and staffy crosses that are filling the countrys rescues and pound nationwide.


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