# Agkistron contorix



## venomous111 (Dec 24, 2009)

It will be a long while before i get any kind of hot, but i have been told that copperheads are about the 'best' starting hots, so i have been looking them up, and i agree with what i was told due to their small venom glands and their bites rarely being fatal, i am wondering what these are like to keep ie. viv size,temps etc.
I must emphasize the fact that i will NOT be getting a DWAL for at least 5 years
Cheers


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Personally, and i know a lot of other venomous keepers who say the same, copperheads are not the BEST first venomous. And you have highlighted one reason i hear a lot, because there venome isnt leathal. well firstly there venom could be leathal if you have an elergic reaction, and speaking to people who have been bit by one...you wish it had killed you......Also getting a venomous snake due to its venom toxicity strength, is the total wrong mind set. Its like saying your going to get bit so at least it wont kill me.
Copperheads are usually mean little buggers and a bugger to hook at times. This is something that untill you have good hook skills and confidance you dont want. 
But saying that a few people have had them as a first venomous because thats a species they actually were interested in keeping.
Your best bet is to train on a number of species and especially those of the type you want to eventually keep.


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## Piraya1 (Feb 26, 2007)

I had a trio of copperheads, all 3 were a lot more inquisitive, more active and more daring than anythin else I had. They're fast, nosey, will advance towards you and wait for you to get close. They always spent their time watching me with heads in the air the entire time I spent in the room.

Most people lose a finger or tips of their fingers. There's been a death recently due to a copperhead bite. 
All it takes is one bite. 

Copperheads will always be downsized for toxicity, quantity and mortality rate HOWEVER
"you don't know if you're going to be the unfortunate one that dies from anaphylactic shock from an allergy to the venom" 

When choosing a venomous snake, at the end of the day you must accept that this animal at some point will indeed kill you, you must accept that a bite from Any venomous animal will kill you. You must believe that death is guaranteed. If you think this way you will be much more on guard. People have died from food allergies. There's just not enough people keeping venomous snakes as there is people eating shellfish, that's why you don't have death from allergy in the venomous snake keeping known as much as there is food allergens. 

"You just never know." - Like viperkeeper always says, the most venomous snake in the world is the one that just bit you. You could take a hit from a copperhead and maybe get away with it with or without antivenom and correct immediate care OR you could be the unlucky individual that just happens to die 2 minutes after the bite due to shock caused by your body's allergic reaction to the venom, not from the destructive components of the venom but just the composition of the liquid in general.

And remember, at some point every snake will surprise you with a new tactic or behavior, it is when you let your guard down thinking "you know your snake" that things can snap the opposite way for a moment or so.


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## Demonlude (Feb 17, 2009)

Great post piraya. It's nice to see a clear, concise answer based on experience.

A lot of people will say elapids aren't the best species to start with. I'm being mentored at the moment, and I deal with various elapids week in, week out. An elapid will be my first dwa, as these are what I've worked with, I enjoy working with them, I know how to handle them, and I'm beginning to understand them. I believe that's the best way to choose your first venomous snake.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I wouldnt say most people lose a finger, but it is possible. My copperhead is the most angry aggressive snake that I own, its a sod.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

my neighbor's copperhead bite... he was bitten as a kid...

nasty scar eh?

northern copperheads are very cool... i've seen nice ones...

sorry about the big picture!:lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

fasciotomy for a copperhead envenomation is pretty hardcore, how old was he?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

SiUK said:


> fasciotomy for a copperhead envenomation is pretty hardcore, how old was he?


my friend was just a kid when he got tagged... 8 or so...

copperheads are very dangerous... my friend had immediate and top notch medical care after being bitten... still there was a lot of tissue damage and crazy swelling...

that "not so toxic" talk is bogus...

a COPPERHEAD CAN KILL YOU... or really ruin your weekend for sure...


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Even so fasciotomies are pretty controversial, and copperheads are definately toxic anyone who thinks they are not dangerous needs a reality check, they are not perhaps as dangerous as some but still should not be underestimated.


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## Guest (May 7, 2011)

SiUK said:


> Even so fasciotomies are pretty controversial, and copperheads are definately toxic anyone who thinks they are not dangerous needs a reality check, they are not perhaps as dangerous as some but still should not be underestimated.


 
Way I see it is they are on the DWA list for a reason, they have venom even if it isnt as toxic, they will still not think twice before trying to inject it in to you and ruin your day.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

Jaggers said:


> Way I see it is they are on the DWA list for a reason


Not sure how it is with snakes but I wouldn't use that as a definate statement. With scorps all of those in the family Buthidae are DWA, maybe even the whole super family Buthoidea? Anyway the point is not all scorpions in the family are really dangerous enough to warrant a DWA. Were as say the six eyed sand spider S.hahni/terrosus are not DWA but cause massive tissue damage, no treatment means massive internal haemorrhaging and tissue death. Basically loosing the area around the bite(often it's going to be the hand..) or worse if it isn't caught early. Although in fairness no deaths from it have been proven(doesn't exactly bite people often), its bite is lethal in tests with rabbits. That should be DWA in my opinion if venom potency is a considerable factor for listing them.


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## Guest (May 7, 2011)

joeyboy said:


> Not sure how it is with snakes but I wouldn't use that as a definate statement. With scorps all of those in the family Buthidae are DWA, maybe even the whole super family Buthoidea? Anyway the point is not all scorpions in the family are really dangerous enough to warrant a DWA. Were as say the six eyed sand spider S.hahni/terrosus are not DWA but cause massive tissue damage, no treatment means massive internal haemorrhaging and tissue death. Basically loosing the area around the bite(often it's going to be the hand..) or worse if it isn't caught early. Although in fairness no deaths from it have been proven(doesn't exactly bite people often), its bite is lethal in tests with rabbits. That should be DWA in my opinion if venom potency is a considerable factor for listing them.


 
Its not a definative statement its my opinion really it wasnt meant to come across that i was defining something in such a generalised way.

Anything that can cause that kind of damage that was on the pic should be made sure its in a controlled enviroment and not be able to be got by a first time snake owner.

As to the politics to the keeping of potentially lethal animals and the controls and licencing I really dont want to open that can of worms, I dont want to be made look stupid by some of the guys/gals on here.:whistling2:


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## rickpellen (Nov 21, 2008)

with the limited expewriance that i have with venomous (just mucking about with friends), coppers are not actually as easy to work with compared to a big puff or large rattlers, althoug i have been told they are a great starter vemous before aswell. My experiance of elapids is.....i wouldnt touch em with a bargepole.:devil:, i know enough to know i dont want em lol


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## venomous111 (Dec 24, 2009)

Ok thanks for the great replies, I know that really there arent any 'beginner' hots, so in your opinion which hot is best for temprement,hook handling etc.
I understand that a copperheads venom CAN kill but isnt that mostly due to anaphlyatic shock??? (probably poor spelling)
is it true that if your not allergic to bee stings, then your not allergic to other venoms ie.copperhead????


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

The toxins in bee venom are completely different to the protien toxins in snake venom. If every venomous keeper worried about allergic reactions nobody would keep anything. Too may people worry about allergies to snake venom, it may happen, or it may never happen. 
I have been keeping venomous snakes for over 42 years and I have not become allelgic to them yet, so why do you think that being bitten by a Copperhead will sause anaphylactic shock?
Brian.


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## Guest (May 8, 2011)

venomous111 said:


> Ok thanks for the great replies, I know that really there arent any 'beginner' hots, so in your opinion which hot is best for temprement,hook handling etc.
> I understand that a copperheads venom CAN kill but isnt that mostly due to anaphlyatic shock??? (probably poor spelling)
> is it true that if your not allergic to bee stings, then your not allergic to other venoms ie.copperhead????


 
I would say its not about getting a trainer hot but getting the one you would like and having training on that plus others to see which you would be more comfortable with.


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## venomous111 (Dec 24, 2009)

Jaggers said:


> I would say its not about getting a trainer hot but getting the one you would like and having training on that plus others to see which you would be more comfortable with.


Ok apart from copperheads i would have to say WDB and i have had a little (very little) experience with them, and gabby's although i think i would definatley not have one as a first ie. lightning fast, crazy size fangs and one hell of a venom.
WDB are absolutley beautiful, and at least you might get a little warning before they do the damage, they get a fair size so i ASSUME they are easier to hook handle.
What about WDB, what are your opinions and experiances with them???


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

WDB are bomb proof husbandry wise, you cant really go wrong and they eat like dustbins, downsides are they do get big and they pack a punch, mine never strikes at anything other than food although it does rattle as soon as you open the door to the room.


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