# british reptile culture?? backstabbers paradise??



## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

iv decided to write this thread and see what others think. over the past few years iv come back to the british reptile scene after living abroad for a number of years. when i left engleand in 90 the reptile scene was nothing like what its become. i went to germany and lived there in munster westfalen, luckily about 20 mins in a car from hamm. i witnessed a big difference in their reptile scene. unlike the brits they never slanged off, belittled, humiliated or took the mick out of any new comer. it was so rare to come across a scammer. everyone wanted to help every one. if one had a problem the rest helped. the prices and quality were way above in some species and some species that werent seen in the uk. i know of a forum thats just started here in the uk. they started to try and eradicated all the backstabbing and slateing of beginners that happens on some forums. i myself put hours and weeks of work into it! but now after a few months the admin and fat controller have become power pissed and started doing all the things that they said they stood against!! what is it about brits that make them do this. tonight they BANNED me! i was a moderator and spent hours every day on there and all i did was miss an on line meeting!! oh and after receiving a realy nasty pm from the owner i sent one back asking him not to talk to me like that. guess what he didnt like it and banned me! banned me!! i cant beleive it!! only months does it take to turn them all into what they dispised about other sites! is the nepoleon symdrom or something??? theres alsorts of backstabbing and sligh tricks that go on and its really hard to figure whos a decent bloke and who isnt! hornet, or what ever hes called is a perfect xsample of this! i know some breeders that wont use any forum!! nowe thats amazing!!i know of some amazing top breeders here in the uk and cant beleive some f the stories they come out with about people that they have dealt with over the years.


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## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

Thats seems to be he UK way mate,

And the tough thing is not getting drawn into it...


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

sorry for my rant but i really do think strongly about this. beginners are the ones that will keep the hobby going. young lads wanting burms shouldnt be laughed at [ shame they dont read a few threads b4 they post i know]. the sam old drivel from the sam old mouths. some i know cant be helped NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU TELL THEM!! the scammers! who the hell do they think they are?? taking peoples hard earned cash! and think we are so gullable to fall for it!! scum the lot of them! i saw this happen once in the 14 years i was there and it was a dutch teenager who thought he could earnabit. he nevers sold another thing. and lastley husbandry,. why is it that people over here constantly attack each others husbandry?? instead of having ago, slating or belittling say some thing privately and politely. people are scared to put up pics because something in the background catches some ones eye and a barage of abuse follows!! its time to change the way the hobby is imo


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I see the same thing on american forums


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> Thats seems to be he UK way mate,
> 
> And the tough thing is not getting drawn into it...


that last bit is so true mate!:2thumb: if i needed advice id ask for it in private on any brit forum just to avoid the shit that you have to siv through to get the answer! go on a european site and you can ask publicly any question you want. it doesnt matter what the question, how long youv been keepin, how old you are and no questions back about the size of the viv in the photo!! for all they know a small viv was used to keep the snake still or the lizard in one place for the pic!! :lol2:


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## Rob Wallace (Sep 24, 2006)

lefty said:


> sorry for my rant but i really do think strongly about this. beginners are the ones that will keep the hobby going. young lads wanting burms shouldnt be laughed at [ shame they dont read a few threads b4 they post i know]. the sam old drivel from the sam old mouths. some i know cant be helped NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU TELL THEM!! the scammers! who the hell do they think they are?? taking peoples hard earned cash! and think we are so gullable to fall for it!! scum the lot of them! i saw this happen once in the 14 years i was there and it was a dutch teenager who thought he could earnabit. he nevers sold another thing. and lastley husbandry,. why is it that people over here constantly attack each others husbandry?? instead of having ago, slating or belittling say some thing privately and politely. people are scared to put up pics because something in the background catches some ones eye and a barage of abuse follows!! its time to change the way the hobby is imo


I agree mate, but to be honest that is the danger of forums.... everyones an expert.... everyones the next " BIG BREEDER" ......And it all starts with the new guys.... they come in, they get verbal.... u shudnt do it like this... ur temps are all wrong.... u cant keep a royal in a 4x2x2 viv....( so that guy gets it from the start.... but he learns.... and then as soon as a less experienced person comes a long he sees his chance to show his new knowledge...and guess what he says) temps are wrong , humiditys wrong...vivs too big/small. 

I hear folk on here say that the top american breeders are cruel... and doing it all wrong ( WHO THE :censor: Do THEY THINK THEY ARE) ... Yeah 2 months on a forum and you are the authority on the keeping of snakes... i know who i would be copying... and trust me it aint the Forumite

It all comes down to armchair experts sharing their knowledge. Even the guys that have been in it a bit longer... are responsible of doing it.... newbies see us do it and they think its the way. 

But its a catch 22.... do we share the knowledge... do we not share the knowledge. Do we do it privately..... if so... Why have a forum????

You have raised a good point mate.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

SiUK said:


> I see the same thing on american forums


that surprises me alittle as iv not come across it. is it as bad as here? the only sites iv been on in the states were all pretty desent. tegutalk is brilliant. but iv only been on a few so havnt seen it.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Rob Wallace said:


> I agree mate, but to be honest that is the danger of forums.... everyones an expert.... everyones the next " BIG BREEDER" ......And it all starts with the new guys.... they come in, they get verbal.... u shudnt do it like this... ur temps are all wrong.... u cant keep a royal in a 4x2x2 viv....( so that guy gets it from the start.... but he learns.... and then as soon as a less experienced person comes a long he sees his chance to show his new knowledge...and guess what he says) temps are wrong , humiditys wrong...vivs too big/small.
> 
> I hear folk on here say that the top american breeders are cruel... and doing it all wrong ( WHO THE :censor: Do THEY THINK THEY ARE) ... Yeah 2 months on a forum and you are the authority on the keeping of snakes... i know who i would be copying... and trust me it aint the Forumite
> 
> ...


iv been into reptiles for over 30 years but im not an expert on anything. if i know the answer to a question i will answer. but if i dont i wont write anything, and most of the time i will keep my eye on that thread and learn some thing new when it finally gets answered properly. your right, too many ignorant armchair xperts that dont like it when they are ask some thing they dont know! i think they would seem alot more intelligent if they said " you know, i havnt a clue but i'll try and find out" rather than fill you with aload of bullshit!

i see what you mean about passing the knowledge. it is a catch 22. oh well back to siving through all the crap eh !!:lol2:


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## 15060 (Feb 17, 2008)

blimey Lefty, is that the site I was invited to join??....well sounds like ur better off without them, dont let the buggers get u down.....!

Unfortunately this is the way of the UK, nobody wants to help anyone else out anymore.......its all me, me, me...... No support or understanding!


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

lefty said:


> iv decided to write this thread and see what others think. over the past few years iv come back to the british reptile scene after living abroad for a number of years. when i left engleand in 90 the reptile scene was nothing like what its become. i went to germany and lived there in munster westfalen, luckily about 20 mins in a car from hamm. i witnessed a big difference in their reptile scene. unlike the brits they never slanged off, belittled, humiliated or took the mick out of any new comer. it was so rare to come across a scammer. everyone wanted to help every one. if one had a problem the rest helped. the prices and quality were way above in some species and some species that werent seen in the uk. i know of a forum thats just started here in the uk. they started to try and eradicated all the backstabbing and slateing of beginners that happens on some forums. i myself put hours and weeks of work into it! but now after a few months the admin and fat controller have become power pissed and started doing all the things that they said they stood against!! what is it about brits that make them do this. tonight they BANNED me! i was a moderator and spent hours every day on there and all i did was miss an on line meeting!! oh and after receiving a realy nasty pm from the owner i sent one back asking him not to talk to me like that. guess what he didnt like it and banned me! banned me!! i cant beleive it!! only months does it take to turn them all into what they dispised about other sites! is the nepoleon symdrom or something??? theres alsorts of backstabbing and sligh tricks that go on and its really hard to figure whos a decent bloke and who isnt! hornet, or what ever hes called is a perfect xsample of this! i know some breeders that wont use any forum!! nowe thats amazing!!i know of some amazing top breeders here in the uk and cant beleive some f the stories they come out with about people that they have dealt with over the years.


why come back?? im miss germany like hell


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

loobylou211 said:


> blimey Lefty, is that the site I was invited to join??....well sounds like ur better off without them, dont let the buggers get u down.....!
> 
> Unfortunately this is the way of the UK, nobody wants to help anyone else out anymore.......its all me, me, me...... No support or understanding!


unfortunately yes. i cant beleive the owner. i put hours and nours into it and now they say that they wont even remove all my input! he says that he owns it all including my images!! i think its digusting!



cooljules said:


> why come back?? im miss germany like hell


some times mate i wish i didnt. im not saying theres not anyone decent here but they are few and far between. iv met some brilliant people here but alot of arseholes aswell


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm with the OP on this. Of late I have experienced first hand the pure hatred of some people out there and their lackies that even inhabit this forum, ready to do their bidding for them.

I'm going to try and slowly wean myself away from here for a bit and concentrate on real life a bit more!


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i'm an american you all know and i really enjoy this forum you all have put together. now i have my faults as does everyone and american's attitudes and practices may be similar in some areas but as an outsider that feels welcome here on this forum, i have seen things at least on this forum, and with british forums that has caught my eye time and again. i'm far enough removed from the whole british herp culture to have a clear and well defined veiw to easily see some peculiarities the british hobbyists seem to have in common. now everyone is different and i can't paint everyone with one broad brush and be fair, but i can tell you that there are some tendencies and attitudes that seem to go hand in hand with mainstream brit hobbyists... there are some things that i find outstanding that brits tend to have in common with one another.... there are some other common tendencies that brits tend to have that i find completely laughable....

also i've noticed constantly that most questionable things mostly come from the younger and/or less advanced hobbyists.

i very rarely offer advice anymore if i feel qualified because it's all too often not worth the effort or hassles that are bound to ensue. if i have something unique to say i dare not because it doesn't follow the "party line".

yes, i have a lot of things that are bottled up and kept to myself.

without getting knee deep in this mud i'll say this: the fact that very few british keepers grew up with herps all around them outside in the woods has in my opinion, been a real influence on british keepers if compared to say, americans... not to say that brits are better or worse keepers than other folks around the world but, brits seem to almost universally, have landed in this hobby with a completely different perspective than.... again say, americans. i'll just leave it at that. honesty and frankness isn't rewarded here on the forum very much.... unless it's something members WANT to hear...


... alrighty then!: victory:


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Mind you, there is an American forum (which I shall not name) that is really good at shootng people down also for asking honest questions.

It's becoming more universal it would seem.

There's also a monitor site based outside the UK that has a of of it going on too.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Dextersdad said:


> Mind you, there is an American forum (which I shall not name) that is really good at shootng people down also for asking honest questions.
> 
> It's becoming more universal it would seem.
> 
> There's also a monitor site based outside the UK that has a of of it going on too.


american forums often shoot people down... it has nothing to do with what happens there in the u.k. the results might be the same but the reasons why american forums can be full of jerks is very different than why a u.k. forum might have a few jerks... american forums can often be mean and nasty because of one reason only.:whistling2:


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## kaimarion (Dec 31, 2007)

HABU said:


> also i've noticed constantly that most questionable things mostly come from the younger and/or less advanced hobbyists.
> 
> i very rarely offer advice anymore if i feel qualified because it's all too often not worth the effort or hassles that are bound to ensue. if i have something unique to say i dare not because it doesn't follow the "party line".


QFT


I don't feel I'am able to be completely honest when it comes to talking about my reptiles on here as I do some things that other might want to bash me for cause I'am doing it different or they think it is wrong so I just keep my mouth shut about it. I have started to doubt things such as "calci-sand being dangerous" as I don't even know if it is true but I'am expected to believe it is because people who have heard it off other people are telling me it is true.

Anyway I'am not trying to discuss problems with sand here but I was using that as an example of what I'am talking about, oh and if I'am not making sense it probabley because I need sleep :whip:.


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## daz30347 (Aug 30, 2007)

I have noticed lately on this forum that at least 50% of posts are tuning into slanging matches,either for being young and asking questions that more experienced guys seem to shoot down or the one that really pisses me off is,Classifieds when someone comments about the OP's pricing
Ffs,if the price doesn't suit you then simply don't buy,more to the point,DON'T TURN IT INTO A WITCH HUNT 
Habu,your honesty and humour is a joy to read on this Forum mate,and i for one hope you continue to give your good,honest advice.makes a refreshing change from reading another member being chastised for whatever reason


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## dracco (May 17, 2008)

I have got to say have noticed that some people do tend to jump on others when then theydont agree with what they say and I dont tend to ask if I have a prob I just tend o look through old treads to see if it has been asked before .I have also noticed that sometimes when things are asked people dont tend to answer on a few times I have asked something on a thread that is alreadyrunning noone has anwsered me sometimes I feel this is because some on here seem to be a group of friends and they dont know me so dont bother answering could be wrong but this is how I felt .I dont think of my self as an expert on any reps that I keep but will answer a post if I feel I can help the op


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

I think it would be wrong to judge the "British reptile scene" from this forum. Apart from a couple of bad eggs (who are trouble on and off forums!), the vast majority of people I see and meet regularly at reptile clubs, shops, and shows, are lovely people, and not involved in any of the bitching, backstabbing, and childishness that you see online.

I do like this forum at times, but it's not the British reptile culture, not by a long shot ... it's just the internet.


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## smart1 (Oct 16, 2007)

i dont think there is anything wrong with naming and shaming scammers ,but apart from that ,thats it ..


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

People in general are arguementative, fickle and arrogant.. allbeit also at times helpful kind considerate and thoughtful...whether we admit it or not we all have these traits .. .. forums have weird dynamics and we are all overly passionate about animals... once you place all this into the mixing bowl what can anyone expect.. its human nature to be a bag of emotionas and character traits that change minute to minute... whether we choose to display thos emotions online is a different matter


Life away from the forum though is different... I bet a lot of us are different away from it too.. we probably appologise more.. care more and feel more empathy as the people we are dealing with are our friends and family.. on here.. what does it really matter ( most of the time).. at the end of the night we can switch off the PC.. or block and delete or as happened to lefty... eradicate... noone really gives a genuine toss that much.. unless the people on the forum are specifically our friends too..


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## cervantes (Apr 24, 2008)

I just like keeping snakes.


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi Lefty, I enjoy being on this forum, I think it's better than most. People are generally friendly and helpful.
I think there are touchy subjects that seem to set people off, a bit of passion now and then is fine by me.
I haven't noticed much in the way of back stabbing on this forum.
I only ever post when I feel that I've got some thing useful to say and I try to be as clear as I can and don't insult people.
The advice on here is generally quite good and mistakes are pointed out, I see this as a good thing and sometimes things have to be pointed out in no uncertain terms, because if it isn't then harm might come to the animal.
Anyway Lefty, welcome to the lions den, oops, meant the forum.
cheers arthur.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

cervantes said:


> I just like keeping snakes.


 
and having the biggest sig on the forum..

you typed 5 words and it takes me a year to scroll past your post..:lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

lefty said:


> i know of a forum thats just started here in the uk. they started to try and eradicated all the backstabbing and slateing of beginners that happens on some forums.


Note that this is a problem of *forums* not of reptile keeping culture.

Any forum anywhere, no matter the topic, has certain people who will spout crap because they can't see the real people on the other end of the screen whose words they effect.


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## cervantes (Apr 24, 2008)

sparkle said:


> and having the biggest sig on the forum..
> 
> /quote]
> 
> ...


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

cervantes said:


> sparkle said:
> 
> 
> > and having the biggest sig on the forum..
> ...


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey all right im gonna be honest i havent read the entire thread just the opening few posts and i would like to make an observation about my experiences with forums,

I keep mainly amphibians (well to be more specific mainly caudata) and i have to say the amphibian "scene" benefits from being so much smaller, with less point of conflict it means troll tend to stay out as it way too much work to start a real argument in the phib sections lol, every1's more chilled out and more geared to help people than fight over petty opinions and choices i hope it stays that way but at the end of the day i know it will just desolve into the troll filled world that are forums (any forums) these days


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

spend_day said:


> Hey all right im gonna be honest i havent read the entire thread just the opening few posts and i would like to make an observation about my experiences with forums,
> 
> I keep mainly amphibians (well to be more specific mainly caudata) and i have to say the amphibian "scene" benefits from being so much smaller, with less point of conflict it means troll tend to stay out as it way too much work to start a real argument in the phib sections lol, every1's more chilled out and more geared to help people than fight over petty opinions and choices i hope it stays that way but at the end of the day i know it will just desolve into the troll filled world that are forums (any forums) these days


 
.. a few weapons and armour are required for the lizard section


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

sparkle said:


> .. a few weapons and armour are required for the lizard section


*goes and looks for a mace and some platemail*


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Note that this is a problem of *forums* not of reptile keeping culture.
> 
> Any forum anywhere, no matter the topic, has certain people who will spout crap because they can't see the real people on the other end of the screen whose words they effect.


With Ssthisto on this one. I think it comes down too it being internet based. We can be anyone on a computer, worlds expert on lizards or a newbie. Communicating on forums is sometimes hard, sarcasm doesnt work and it is also based on how the repliers read the OP. 

I do post less on here, not worth the hassle. Lizards on sand, feeding in vivs, substrate etc. These posts come up everyweek and end in the same way a massive slanging match and a locked thread.

I dont like this cotton wool approach some UK herpers have. Keeping animals in near sterile environments and almost treating them like commodities. I think alot of respect has been lost by some keepers.

Its a shame though, through sorting this show out im meeting and talking too some genuinely nice people and breeders with a passion for their hobby. Shame when you put a PC into the equation everyone gets an ego and knows best.


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## Paul Chase (Mar 7, 2007)

toyah said:


> I think it would be wrong to judge the "British reptile scene" from this forum. Apart from a couple of bad eggs (who are trouble on and off forums!), the vast majority of people I see and meet regularly at reptile clubs, shops, and shows, are lovely people, and not involved in any of the bitching, backstabbing, and childishness that you see online.
> 
> I do like this forum at times, but it's not the British reptile culture, not by a long shot ... it's just the internet.


I think you have got it in one there Toyah.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

toyah said:


> I think it would be wrong to judge the "British reptile scene" from this forum. Apart from a couple of bad eggs (who are trouble on and off forums!), the vast majority of people I see and meet regularly at reptile clubs, shops, and shows, are lovely people, and not involved in any of the bitching, backstabbing, and childishness that you see online.
> 
> I do like this forum at times, but it's not the British reptile culture, not by a long shot ... it's just the internet.





Ssthisto said:


> Note that this is a problem of *forums* not of reptile keeping culture.
> 
> Any forum anywhere, no matter the topic, has certain people who will spout crap because they can't see the real people on the other end of the screen whose words they effect.


I have to agree with these two. It's a pitfall of forums worldwide, or at least the larger ones anyhow. It's only a small percentage of members which spoil it for the rest but they seem to be the most vocal.

99% of people I've met/dealt with in the "real world" have been nothing but nice. I've met around 70 people from here and have all the time in the world for any of them bar one (which shall not be named). I've become friends offline with a few and see them fairly regular.

I'd also like to point out that the UK has keepers in excess of numbering 1 million, only a VERY tiny fraction of those are online. You really shouldn't judge the whole UK reptile scene from the internet.: victory:

We keep saying to people that if you see problem posts then report them and we'll deal with it, rather than create threads or whinge elsewhere. Doing that is adding to the issues, not dealing with them. Mods here are very small in number and we can't see it all unfortunately. I do try and do what I can though. On the flipside if you are to use internet forums you need to develop a thicker skin, and not take everything so personally. It's only the internet afterall.

Sorry to hear what happened to you elsewhere Lefty. That is low.


Habu - I like reading your posts and seeing things from a different perspective, never stop giving us your opinion even if we don't agree with it at times.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

I prefer peole who can be honest about their failings aswell as their achievements and i have met in real life not many of those who belong to the reptile community.. some yes.. not many..


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear what happened to you elsewhere Lefty. That is low.



cheers mate. they finally removed all my input this morning, along with a threatening email! oh well, glad to see the back of them. its been very interesting reading the replies to this thread. it seems that the internet has a big part to play in the backstabbing and so on. i wasnt judging the reptile culture from very suitable veiw. it seems that problems i raised were more to do with the web culture than the reptile. it would be good if it all changed though. but i guess the only way thats going to happen is if we all smoked a joint and chilled out every time we went on line :lol2:. sorry to all for my rant last night but it did bring out some good veiws:lol2:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

thing is it's not like only reptile forums have this problem. I mean I visit a computer forum, most members are American but there's a few british and european members. Usually when your a new comer and ask about a computer problem or "can you guys tell me which components would make a good computer for playing games", you get a good response. However you often have to add in your first post that you want them to explain why they tell you to buy this or that because they just give a link and say " this one, this one, that one" etc as it's like they assume you will understand because they do. Also if you are confused and have to ask something which to them is obvious you can often see pretty sarcastic replies or use of emotes which makes you feel rather foolish.

An example on here might be if i asked this about a lizard with an omnivorous diet "do i give my lizard a water bowl or does it get it's water from the vegetables it eats". The obvious answer is going to be give it a water bowl too but some people genuinely aren't sure and need help. However you end up with comments like:

"......no, they get water from eating the sand substrate! duh!"

or "gosh if you don't know something like that theb you shouldn't ever get reptiles you idiot"

not saying you get responses like that here all the time, although saying that I have been comments of that nature when people ask about ill lizards and the cause is the petshop has misinformed them, but it's an example of the kind of thing that always happens in forums. People get a superiority complex and insult new members.


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## DNA (Jan 15, 2009)

toyah said:


> I think it would be wrong to judge the "British reptile scene" from this forum. Apart from a couple of bad eggs (who are trouble on and off forums!), the vast majority of people I see and meet regularly at reptile clubs, shops, and shows, are lovely people, and not involved in any of the bitching, backstabbing, and childishness that you see online.
> 
> I do like this forum at times, but it's not the British reptile culture, not by a long shot ... it's just the internet.


Any two in particularly, Toyah? :blush:

Personally I just think the whole my morph trumps yours, is naff. And everyone is playing catchup. I love reading people self professing themselves 'Top breeders' (Eh, Bob! :Na_Na_Na_Na.
You'll find the people you should probably be listening to should you come across a problem often don't post much. They're likely bored of all the chavs buying and selling or making offers on their stuff.


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

HABU said:


> american forums often shoot people down... it has nothing to do with what happens there in the u.k. the results might be the same but the reasons why american forums can be full of jerks is very different than why a u.k. forum might have a few jerks... american forums can often be mean and nasty because of one reason only.:whistling2:


I disagree.

It matters not where people come from. Anyone can be a grade A rear end.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

very true. theres one born every day :lol2:. the scammers imo really insult the intelligence! they prey on peoples trust and have no regard for anyone. i remember last year there was a guy selling tegus at 70 quid each and a few other things. he was ment to be in scotland. he said he could deliver anywhere in the country on thursday. it turned out the guy wasnt in scotland and was traced to a bank account in manchester!! how the hell did he think he would get away with it!? they must think that some people are really thick.

iv met a great bunch of people on here and off the forum but iv also met some real idiots, scammers, bullys and know it alls as well. guess im just gonna have to get used to it as after reading what most people have put it aint ever going to stop.


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## Darlo_Gal (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree with the OP totally. I've been taken for a fool twice on here the last time was a very emotional time for me as it was animals rather than equipment invloved. I spoke to a few people whom I trusted via PM and was advised to make a thread about what had happened letting ppl know what the person was like. I never did this, as much as I would have liked to have let people know and warn them, i've read similair posts where it ends up as a slanging match and in some cases the innocent parties were the in the firing line! I just thought this would be too much after everything I endured so this person has essentially got away with it.
I would still purchase off here but am more guarded about it and majority of ppl I find really nice although i don't reply much on threads I love sitting in the background reading through them lol it's safer that way.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Darlo_Gal said:


> I agree with the OP totally. I've been taken for a fool twice on here the last time was a very emotional time for me as it was animals rather than equipment invloved. I spoke to a few people whom I trusted via PM and was advised to make a thread about what had happened letting ppl know what the person was like. I never did this, as much as I would have liked to have let people know and warn them, i've read similair posts where it ends up as a slanging match and in some cases the innocent parties were the in the firing line! I just thought this would be too much after everything I endured so this person has essentially got away with it.
> I would still purchase off here but am more guarded about it and majority of ppl I find really nice although i don't reply much on threads I love sitting in the background reading through them lol it's safer that way.


 
staying in the back ground seems to be the safest place tbh. at least your not in the firing line. im amazed by how many people feel like this but nothing is done. why cant the hecklers receive banns? that will teach them. why should it be the decent people that have to take a back seat because they dont want all the grief that comes with asking a question?
as darlo has said it can be very upsetting when theres an animal involved. 

bann them all!!! hang them from the lamp posts!!!:2thumb::lol2:


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## Darlo_Gal (Sep 24, 2008)

bann them all!!! hang them from the lamp posts!!!:2thumb::lol2:[/quote]

Thank you Lefty and not a bad idea : victory::lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Dextersdad said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It matters not where people come from. Anyone can be a grade A rear end.


 all i can say is that we americans have some bad traits generally speaking. man you can't hardly discuss anything with people around here where i am. i wish that i was allowed to beat some of these people senseless sometimes.

it only takes a minute or so to get an american to begin screaming at you! because we all know that the only way to convince someone of something is to raise your voice... the loudest person is always right!

if you discuss something with an american and simply disagree with them it's no different than screwing their wife. we all know this.

if you are an american and someone disagrees with you that's solid proof that they are an idiot...

americans are always right because bubba told them something was true... if bubba said it, then it's the gospel. if it was on tv or you read it somewhere while buying groceries it must be true.

if you use a couple of big words then that's proof to an american that you have no idea what you are talking about.

80% of americans don't know what a pundit is.

being smart is a bad thing because you can't be smart AND have any common sense... that's an american rule.

you want your kids to be well educated but to most americans a good education means you don't know what you are talking about.

the people that i know can tell if something is unimportant because it has nothing to do with getting high.

americans will argue with you until they run out of sound bites they have memorized...

an american conversation is when one person does all the talking and they other person just listens and nods their head in agreement.

if you try to warn an american about something you are interferring... then when it blows up in their face, it's all your fault because you should have warned them.

when an american attempts to explain a screw-up it always begins with: "I THOUGHT THAT.....".




it's always someone else's fault when an american messes up something.... it could even be the weather's fault...


i could go on and on for days....


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## richard0lowe (Dec 20, 2008)

lefty said:


> beginners are the ones that will keep the hobby going. young lads wanting burms shouldnt be laughed at


me....:blush::lol2:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

iv been asked to name and shame the forum that treated me bad but im not sure if id be breaking any rules. id love to but dont know if it would land me in trouble. anyone know the answer?? obviously it isnt rfuk:lol2:. if anyone would like to know so they can avoid it pm me and i will let people know that way


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## Dungbug (Oct 16, 2007)

I agree that the hostility is more a 'forum' thing than the UK reptile scene as a whole tbh, I've been on other forums (non rep one's) and the same happens on them.........As for scammers, again not restricted to the rep scene. I've been messed about on a certain auction site as I know many others have, welcome to the world of internet fraud & f*ckwits. 

I've seen posts where OP's have been ripped for the viv setup's, techniques etc but if offence is taken then simply report the posts. The mods will not be able to ban anyone if it's not reported. 

I do see you're point on this though but I've found this on different forums so I'd say it's nothing to do with the rep scene. I've met a few folk on here personally & they've always been descent people so they do exist. : victory:


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

cooljules said:


> why come back?? *im miss germany* like hell


fancy a drink? :lol2:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

fishboy said:


> fancy a drink? :lol2:


:lol2:it wasnt the drink in my case. i was posted 20 mins from the dutch border! that should give you a clue :lol2::lol2:. im editing this because iv only just got it[ not the fastest person at the moment lol!] very witty fish! but in my xperience if you take a miss germany out theres not much drinking time left after waiting for her to finish her shave lmao!!

shouldnt say that really as my son is german.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

I like this forum. I just lurk really, and read. Mostly when i write a post, i have another think about wether i actually want anyone to read what i've written, and then delete it :lol2: People do argue a lot on here but that's what makes it so interesting: being able to read so many contrasting opinions and experiences. You could try and remove all the rubbish and arguments and stupid comments, but then if you can't be bothered sifting through all the posts yourself and deciding what is useful then do you really deserve to know? The thing i like is that the mods tend to stay out of it until it gets REALLY stupid and they get a request to delete/lock or remove the thread. They mostly manage to keep their personal opinions to themselves. Unlike some other forums where mods and/or their mates like to accuse new herpers, eagerly attempting their first breedings, of being scammers and gang up on them, belittle them, and send innapropriate and abusive emails and junk mail to them and their partner, regardless of the fact they have never sold an animal in their entire life, just for requesting an undeserved and falsely incriminating post to be deleted. Grudge? me? never :blush:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

it sounds like its happened to you aswell? you seem to have good veiws and should post more often mate:2thumb:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

can you beleive it?? the guys only gone and sent emails to loads of people saying not to trust me!! is that childish or what?? all i did was dare to talk to him in the same way he spoke to me. id love it if someone that knew how would distroy his forum!! has anyone else received an email from (edited to remove a personal email)??? its obviously him as i dont know anyone that breeds fish other than him. iv a good mind to go round and slap him ugly but that would just be playing into his hands. if anyone else has received an email from him could they let me know. thanks lefty

p.s if anyone is wondering who im talking about its dave or ferret1958 as he used to be called on here


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## Redband (Feb 29, 2008)

The 'know-it-all' culture that quite often plagues hobbyists of just about anything but in particular keeping pets is very strong within the reptile keeping hobby. There is precious little research on the precise husbandry requirements of most pet animals. The majority of published research on husbandry of animals kept by Humans concerns laboratory species. That in mind, the great majority of recommendations, suggestions and opinions on husbandry in reptiles or just about any other animal that doesn't attract the attention of drug companies or research institutes is based primarily on personal experience. Yet what we actually see/hear on forums, in publications and in person is personal experience being stated as gospel truth and scientific fact. We end up with a hobby plagued by arrogance and superiority, the apparent status that many believe keeping reptiles brings seems to be a precursor to ego-inflation whilst ironically presumably teaches others that reptiles are difficult to keep. Odd when you consider that many in the herpetoculture scene have tried hard to convince authorities such as DEFRA and the RSPCA etc that reptiles are not so hard to keep as to warrant a ban on their captivity or at least some form of broad licensing etc.

The sheer arrogance, self-importance and blind belief in themselves or non-scientific/academic research sources that a number of reptile keepers (both young and old!) hold, never cease to amaze me. It's not likely to go away, not until scientists and vets produce plenty of easily accessible and very comprehensive data concerning general and more advanced husbandry and breeding. Instead, anyone wishing to engage in reptile keeping must work as an 'information dodgem!', dodging the vast amount of WebPages based solely on personal opinion expressed as scientific fact or worse still copied from some other website, the various general husbandry books that all give different requirements/suggestions and the self-important rubbish that exits the mouths of many in the hobby; breeders, keepers and of course the pet shop retailer.

In the absence of any real husbandry science we are of course reliant on the opinions and experiences of others to guide the hobby but a little respect for the opinions, methods and suggestions from all wouldn't go amiss!


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## retri (Mar 5, 2008)

This thread has expressed my feelings of late very well, its been the same since I joined the forum, and ill admit I have been caught up in it, and sometimes I still find myself posting things that I should not, that I dont actually agree with when I go back and look at it.

TBH I have probably attacked a couple of people that did not deserve it, not that I disagreed with what was being said or anythign like that, but purely that I am getting sick of the forum attitudes.

TBH I dont think there is anything wrong with the british reptile scene as has been said alot in this thread it is the forums that are the problem, I am doing my best to steer away from the forum but I always seem to find myself on here when I have nothing better to do:bash:

Outside of the forum I can discuss things fully, I am not affraid to mention anything about my collection or my keeping and get the same response from the people I talk to.

even when I meet people from the forum in person you learn so much more about a person because there is so much that keepers do not mention on the forum as they know what response they will get.

TBH there are a couple of decisions I have made about how I keep my animals that I would never mention on the forum as I know no-one will agree with me as even if anyone does agree with it they will be too worried to step forward.

the words F**k it have come to mind alot recently and I am half tempted to post something that I know I will get attacked for just because I should not be worried about posting it, its how I keep my animals and works well for me, I know what negative views people will have but most of them will only say have that 'opinion' as they have been told it by someone else.


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## EvilDes (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, I've just sat and read this whole post, and thought I'd air my views.

You'll notice that my post count is very low, and yet I'm on here pretty much every day, reading, gathering information, looking at pictures, and just trying to broaden my knowledge in general. Alot of things I read have nothing to do with the reps I keep, but I'm just looking to extend what I know, and learn a few things along the way.

The reason I don't post often, if at all really, is probably the fear of being slated, or being ignored. I've seen it all before on other forums, most notably the larger ones. I run a forum myself, and frequent many others, but these days, most of them I hardly post in, even if I'm an enthusiast for what I'm looking at. I just can't be doing with the hassle of getting into an argument with someone I've never met, never seen and probably will never see, over something which at the end of the day is totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Far from "hating" a forum, I just can't be bothered with the associated problems encountered with each of them. I'm one of the people that uses the search button before even considering pressing the "New Topic" button because near enough every topic has already been covered. So why not close the forum? Why not close every forum? Surely there must be enough information out there now?

I'll tell you why - because if that happened, nobody would be able to share ideas and progress the hobby further, and nobody would leanr anything new, then it would all be set in stone. But the real catch 22 is people like myself, those who lurk in the backgrounds and just read up, because they don't feel they can infiltrate the already well established niches and groups of people who get on well and have their own opinons. Who would I be to question someone on here who has many more years experience than me, because I want to try something different, or show how I've done things? And yet it's people like myself that in years to come might be offering my lifes experiences in keeping reps and offering advice for those new people getting into reps.

At the end of the day, this site is such a useful resource for many people (as are many other forums) but they will inevitably come with baggage in the form of scammers, high horse riders, and narrow minded people.

But they also come with helpful, insightful, friendly, like-minded people, which is what we're here for in the long run! : victory:

PS - just read through this, and I apologise for the length in advance! :lol2:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

its been great reading that others are fed up with the same things as me. if there are so many peope "in the back ground" why do we let it continue? im still waiting for the day that a thread is started and stays on the subject it was started for.

as a few have said b4,its hard not to be draw into the arguments sometimes even when all your doing is standing up for some one you beleive is getting a hard time for no reason of their own. it makes me laugh when who ever you front comes out with "iv only the reptiles best interest in mind". if thats the case dont they think that the op will stop asking questions and in the long run this will harm the animal?? some of them seem to post for post count alone!:whistling2:


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## 170pand (Dec 22, 2008)

i must admit i joined for help,but i dont bother posting for help now as ,,if i put something wrong to someone else keeping same reptile,,everone jumps on your back and slates you off,,when all your looking for is help and advice,,instead you get abuse,,i have started using captive breed as well for my advice,,because on there you get help not abuse,,hope this place changes and best wishes to u all:2thumb:


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

170pand said:


> i must admit i joined for help,but i dont bother posting for help now as ,,if i put something wrong to someone else keeping same reptile,,everone jumps on your back and slates you off,,when all your looking for is help and advice,,instead you get abuse,,i have started using captive breed as well for my advice,,because on there you get help not abuse,,hope this place changes and best wishes to u all:2thumb:


i think you may have got the wrong end of the stick mate. i wasnt talking about this forum, i was talking about them all. if that has been your xperiance on this forum give it awhile longer mate as iv noticed a slight change of late. theres some good guys on here, you just have to weed through all the shit to find them.:lol2:


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## Becky Wheeler (Jun 15, 2006)

Oh wow! Finally some people who think the same as me! :notworthy:

To be honest i rarely post replies on thread with people asking questions etc because of these people who have a different opinion on things and think the advice you've just given someone is all bullshit and there's is spot on!.

I have got into loads of arguement or disagreements in the past and now it's got to the point were if someone wants advice then I am more than happy to reply by pm or email.

One thing that really makes me fume is when a newbie comes on thinking they are going to get friendly expert advice from a friendly forum and they end up being slated!. It really does make me angry and feel sorry for that person.

Anyway, not everyone is like this. I have made some good friends on forums and over time you learn who's ok and who's just full of it.

Anyway that's my thought on the whole forums thing.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

daz30347 said:


> I have noticed lately on this forum that at least 50% of posts are tuning into slanging matches,either for being young and asking questions that more experienced guys seem to shoot down or the one that really pisses me off is,Classifieds when someone comments about the OP's pricing
> Ffs,if the price doesn't suit you then simply don't buy,more to the point,DON'T TURN IT INTO A WITCH HUNT
> _Habu,your honesty and humour is a joy to read on this Forum mate,and i for one hope you continue to give your good,honest advice.makes a refreshing change from reading another member being chastised for whatever reason_


wow! that is a very nice thing to say.... i thank you for those kind and flattering words.... they boosted my mood big time!

i often wonder if i am being accepted on this forum being a foreigner and all.... i like it here and it helps me pass the day as i piddle around my place. i find mostly good and witty people here at rfuk, a rarity in my world... this forum makes me think and i learn much from the many members... also i can express things instead of just bottling it all up as i have done all of my life out of necessity... i swim among self-centered morons here... besides, i get to use my language here instead of purposely dumbing it down all the time as i have to do here where i live..

thanks again... you're on my christmas card list now!!:lol2:


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi Habu, can't say that I've ever thought of you as a foreigner and your posts seem to be well thought out.

Don't know why some people get flamed and others don't, I'm always posting about mixing species and so far no ones attacked me.

One problem I have noticed is that some times people don't seem to read all the posts in a thread and seem to just jump in. I tend to ignore the negative posts and try to reply to the question.

I think that those who don't post things because they feel they'll get jumped on should just go ahead and post and be dammed at what others say. After all what you've got to say could be important information to some one, you never know when a little snippet of info could be the solver of a big problem.
I can't say the number of times I've said, ah, yes of course, that's what I need or that must be why.

cheers arthur


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## jaysonc3 (Nov 20, 2008)

The trouble I find with this forum is people have never heard the phrase 'More than one way to skin a cat'. they have their ways and views on how things should be done and anyone that does things any different gets slagged off.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

jaysonc3 said:


> The trouble I find with this forum is people have never heard the phrase 'More than one way to skin a cat'. they have their ways and views on how things should be done and anyone that does things any different gets slagged off.


i think you have a very valid point there. if people would realise that there why isnt always the only way then things would be alot more friendly on here. imo if somthing works for you then thats the right way for you. but this is usually where the ignorance comes in. its like the debate over wether bearded dragons should be kept on sand or paper. i personally beleive its better on paper because its a lot more hygenic and takes away the chance of impacting. thats my veiw. but if you use sand no problem. i used to use sand myself and the only difference i noticed when i went over to paper was the fact that it didnt smell and was easier to clean. this is somthing that i learnt lately. but as usual the debate turned ugly with some demanding that sand was best because thats what they are on in the wild. this could all be solved by the way in which a response is written. instead of demanding that you are right why not just post a veiw and leave it at that? i have been involved with so many arguments on here due to the way inwhich some one has answered in a thread its unbeleivable! the problem i have is i bite too easy and end up being made out to be the agresser. its taken me along time but iv finally decided that the only way to avoid the idiots is not to post or be drawn into silly arguments.i beleive that the best way to learn is to keep an open mind and listen to all veiws.


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## Becky Wheeler (Jun 15, 2006)

BRAVO!!:thumb:

Spot on mate! The way it's going at the moment theres to much of this :rant2::rant2::rant2::war::blah::blahblah::cussing:

And not enough of this

:grouphug::help::surrender:eace:

Ok enough of the smileys I know :lol2:


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

if i see someone asking for help and getting slated... i usually PM them and offer help support or advice away from the forum.. the personal touch makes a difference and usually calms things down

at times though people asking for help and blatantly disregarding every last piece of it no matter what really does warrant them being told there attitude is frankly pointless.. why ask for help if u then return every offer with.. NO im doing it my way even though my animal seems to be dying.. thats when it really does do my head in


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

Becky Wheeler said:


> BRAVO!!:thumb:
> 
> Spot on mate! The way it's going at the moment theres to much of this :rant2::rant2::rant2::war::blah::blahblah::cussing:
> 
> ...


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

just wanted to raise the question again. whats your feelings towards the herp world, and how do you find the people in it???


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

It takes all sorts Lefty,when we set up the FBH, I met hundreds of herpers and only a few were people I didn't like, most are good people. But there are many herpers who don't go onto the net, let alone forums.

Why do people come onto these forums. some probably, to look for arguments rather than debate but I think the majority are here to chat and learn, quite amazing what you can pick up just by reading some of the threads.

I always like to help where I can but I do realise that it is just my opinion. As some one said, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Take the sand and compaction debate, compaction can be a problem, it is not always a problem. So people should be looking at why some animals get compacted and why some don't, for example if some one always fed in a bowl instead of the substrate, no sand from grabbing prey. If those who keep on sand were to do lots of observation, they might discover a reason.
Perhaps some animals are prone to eating sand, who knows.

If some one puts a point of view that I disagree with, I'll say that I disagree in a friendly way and ignore any insults and ranting. If their post is all rant then we should just ignore it. People can only insult or bully if you let them.

I hope that the experienced keepers will stay on the forums and debate/chat and ignore the wind ups.
cheers arthur.


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## lefty (Jun 2, 2008)

i wish all would read this thread and see how peeved off alot of people are with the way some are acting on here. its by far the biggest reptile forum in the uk so its the best place to learn. make it easier for people to ask questions and the animals can only benefit


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## Jay-Jay (Jun 16, 2009)

Hiya Lefty,

As a newbie myself I have posted at times and worried that maybe I have worded things wrong and also wondered whether my newbie question is stupid so deleted it and not bothered posting.

At the same time though where I have posted I have made a couple of friends who I chat to on MSN and have arranged to meet at future shows. 

As other people have said there are helpful people and topics out there you just have to find them.


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## ghostcornsnake (Jan 30, 2009)

i always hesitate for awaile to say or ask questions coz of people shooting me down lol


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## bronzeyis200 (Jan 25, 2008)

Darlo_Gal said:


> I agree with the OP totally. I've been taken for a fool twice on here the last time was a very emotional time for me as it was animals rather than equipment invloved. I spoke to a few people whom I trusted via PM and was advised to make a thread about what had happened letting ppl know what the person was like. I never did this, as much as I would have liked to have let people know and warn them, i've read similair posts where it ends up as a slanging match and in some cases the innocent parties were the in the firing line! I just thought this would be too much after everything I endured so this person has essentially got away with it.
> I would still purchase off here but am more guarded about it and majority of ppl I find really nice although i don't reply much on threads I love sitting in the background reading through them lol it's safer that way.


This is the reason why whenever I'm buying or selling anything, it's cash on collection all the way.
I will travel to the seller or will expect the buyer to travel to me unless of course they can give me cleared funds before I send them anything.(Pick up is definitely prefered though!)
Thats not just on here, I do the same on ebay, I will email the seller before I bid/buy and check that it's ok for me to pay cash on collection, if they say no I wont bother, the main reason IMO that somebody doesn't want you to go collect is they are hiding something!!

As for the original thread title, it's not just here, it's right across all forums, modified cars, gaming, camera/photography, etc etc, you will always get the people who have more experience and will shout you down for doing something wrong, belittle you, etc etc.....
Human nature unfortunately, I'll be honest on the car forums I have been guilty of this on occasion, for example a newbie joined a particular forum that will remain nameless and posted a pic of his car, a mach 3 fiesta which looked like it drove through Halfords and MotorWorld covered in glue and every item they had for sale had stuck to it!
It did look terrible and I wasn't the only one to take the piss! The newbie got upset and never came back on that forum.
Looking back, maybe I could have worded it better or been more constructive instead of being basically a bully!!
I suppose it's a matter of older and wiser now, but some people(scammers for example) do deserve it and I'm happy to tell them as well!!

Also, being young isn't an excuse for asking stupid questions.... do a little research, then ask peoples opinion on what you've found out or show them that you can't find the answer and then ask.... or just be honest that you can't be arsed trawling through the crap that google throws at you to find the info you want.I've seen a couple of members on here being honest and saying they can't be bothered with google and then asking. That IMHO is fine, at least you are being honest and it will stop some of the slating from people on here who seem to like to answer the simple questions with "Google is your friend".Not helpful if the OP has already looked or is sick of sifting through pages of crap for a simple answer.

It also gets annoying when people post the same questions day after day after day, the most tedious question which seems to come up nearly every day is Royals not eating!! Just use the forum search at the top and find the countless threads on this and read the responses to them instead of clogging the forum with the exact same thing over and over again.............

There is problems on both sides, the newbie asking silly questions that can be answered via the forum search and the older(supposedly wiser) members who are too quick to slate people.....

We are all guilty of it at times, simply because it's too hard to "turn the other cheek" all the time!


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