# UK Native Frogs - Egg to Adult - Advice required



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Hello,

When I was much younger (Around 6 years ago) I used to raise Tadpoles to semi-adults, which were collected from my neighbours pond. - Because I haven't done it in a long while, I have forgotten prettymuch everything!

It's prime breeding season, so therefore I'd like to collect some Spawn, and raise the babies to adults to keep. - Any advice on keeping the spawn, hatching, and what to feed the tadpoles while they are tadpoles etc would be greatly appreciated and very much needed. Equipment, husbandry etc.

Thankyou very much!


James


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Bump!

Got some spawn now, curtesy of my neighbour. How long before they hatch into tadpoles?


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Try asking here;

RAUK e-Forum


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> Try asking here;
> 
> RAUK e-Forum


 
Thanks Lotte! 

I have pics, will post them when I can be arsed to upload them to Photobucket. :whistling2: lol

Spoke to my mate Shaun, who is a herp geru, especially on frogs (Doing his PhD on poisonous frogs, but his knowledge is truely there with hots), he said a small pump may be a good idea to keep the eggs aerated, and when they hatch, get some algae discs for the tadpoles to feed on. 


Will ask to see what the guys there think.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Let us know how you get on. I've never done this. Would really like to, though.
I haven't seen any spawn yet this year!


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

ipreferaflan said:


> Let us know how you get on. I've never done this. Would really like to, though.
> I haven't seen any spawn yet this year!


 
We're early into the breeding season for this species, but within the next week or so you should be seeing more and more, especially in ponds!


This is just a self-project for me, as an experience gainer as I am a lover of all herps, and not just primarily venomous reptiles.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

The spawn I collected today:


----------



## donia (Apr 15, 2009)

The Field Studies Council do a neat little guide on rearing common frog tadpoles - may be a bit too simplistic for what you want to know, but great for kids! 

FSC Publications : Keeping frog tadpoles


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

donia said:


> The Field Studies Council do a neat little guide on rearing common frog tadpoles - may be a bit too simplistic for what you want to know, but great for kids!
> 
> FSC Publications : Keeping frog tadpoles


 
Thankyou!


----------



## andie (Sep 23, 2007)

I used to rear these as a lad and as far as i can remember this is all i used to do.

Use a small aquarium or large jar depending on how much spawn you have with water preferably from the source but i used tap water with no ill effects to top up after a 50% water change.
The spawn will hatch around the 2 week mark (i seem to remeber) and the tadpoles will attach themselves to the jelly for a few more days until they are able to swim, by then they will have developed proper mouth parts and will have grown a feathery set of gills and will also begin to feed on plant matter, so leave that canadian pond weed in with them and also a small pinch of tropical fish flake. As time goes on they will begin to develop lungs and you will notice them taking air from the water surface. Their hind legs will begin to grow and finally the front limbs before absorbing the tail and becomming froglets.
I used to let mine go when they reached this stage, where i originally found them but this was back in the early 70's :blush: so check about legalities concerning collection and releasing.
Also try and keep the water temp's cool, room temp will speed up their growth but if they are kept to warm they will be deformed and weak..

Thats all i did, hope it helps, oh, and i found some spawn last sunday too,,,, Springs arrived :2thumb:


----------



## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

i usually have loads in the pond in my garden and i feed them fish flakes. Never tried to raise them indoors though. Im worried about this years lot becuase the weathers been so cold and i havent seen any spawn yet :hmm:


----------



## andie (Sep 23, 2007)

I think our wildlife here in the UK manages quite well with the varying climate, it always seems to come right for them in the end. I just wished that the frogs where i find the spawn would learn that laying it in a tractor tyre rut is just doomed to fail, so i always move it all to a ditch about 6 foot away before it dries out...


----------



## sizedoesn'tmatter (Jan 24, 2009)

I made an indoor pond with a blow-up swimming pool in my classroom last year for some spawn from a pand that was due to be destroyed. 
I made a gravel island in the middle with plants and had swan mussels too. The kids loved it.


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> The spawn I collected today:
> 
> 
> image


What size is the tank you have for rearing? You will want to return the vast majority of the successful hatchers from those two huge clumps as soon as they are free swimming.


----------



## Doogerie (Jul 6, 2007)

yeah i did that when i was youn we used to feed them dog food it worked really well


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Now you've taken me back....... thou. i think you are gonna have to get some more tanks set up to deal with the nos of baby tads. I used to collect tiny bit of spawn [frog] and rear them to just before froglet, then steal into peoples gardens [ones with a pond] and give them frogs, thank god i was never caught it would have taken some explaining from a 10 year old. Used to set up a tank with under gravel filter months in advance and let lots of algae grow for tads to munch also gave lettuce leaves part boiled it was said to make it more palateable for tads, i used to catch nests of spiderlings [garden spider] to feed the very few frogs i reared to release at home it was defintately successfull as one of my aunties had to take buckets of spawn to a big pond for years and years afterwards i'm sure i fed the tads other stuff as well but i can't remember it was over thirty years ago PS you need more space than you think for that quantity of spawn!!!!! regards Stu


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

andie said:


> I used to rear these as a lad and as far as i can remember this is all i used to do.
> 
> Use a small aquarium or large jar depending on how much spawn you have with water preferably from the source but i used tap water with no ill effects to top up after a 50% water change.
> The spawn will hatch around the 2 week mark (i seem to remeber) and the tadpoles will attach themselves to the jelly for a few more days until they are able to swim, by then they will have developed proper mouth parts and will have grown a feathery set of gills and will also begin to feed on plant matter, so leave that canadian pond weed in with them and also a small pinch of tropical fish flake. As time goes on they will begin to develop lungs and you will notice them taking air from the water surface. Their hind legs will begin to grow and finally the front limbs before absorbing the tail and becomming froglets.
> ...


 
Thankyou very much! - We'll get to the stage of froglets first, if I remember from around 7 or so years ago, it took several weeks for that to happen.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> What size is the tank you have for rearing? You will want to return the vast majority of the successful hatchers from those two huge clumps as soon as they are free swimming.


 
Not terribly large, however I'm getting a big Rub to put the clumps in. The one I have is too small.


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

The bare minimum to raise common frog tadpoles in a captive setting without compromising them is 1 tadpole to 1litre. 
You have about two weeks max, after they hatch to thin them down to this, otherwise you'll actually be releasing stunted, substandard metamorphs (when and if they reach that stage). Overcrowding and poor water quality are serious considerations.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> The bare minimum to raise common frog tadpoles in a captive setting without compromising them is 1 tadpole to 1litre.
> You have about two weeks max, after they hatch to thin them down to this, otherwise you'll actually be releasing stunted, substandard metamorphs (when and if they reach that stage). Overcrowding and poor water quality are serious considerations.


 
So what do you suggest I do? Break off a small amount of spawn, and put the rest back?


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Now you've got them it's better to hatch them all there, wait till they're free swimming then move the small number you will keep to a clean tank (preferably already setup with some wild aquatic plants and a bit of algae about) then release the rest to where they came from.

Even clumps of spawn have to be carefully acclimatised to different water quality and temperature, so moving it again isn't the best plan. For the same reason, when you go to return them don't just pour them in, you have to float them just as you would do to acclimatise fish.

My experience is specific to _Rana dalmatina_, The Agile Frog as we have been running a headstarting/release programme here for a couple years now...


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Thats excellent Lotte, thankyou! 

Will go about setting up a tank, and get some Algae growing sharpish for the douzen or so I am going to raise.

Any specific set-ups reccomended for Rana temporaria?


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

HABU said:


> image


 
So do I!

I feel much happier now that Spring is here, and I can do something Herp related with native herps.

Only thing is, as with herps, come the bloody Wasps. (Yellow-Jackets where you're from) :whip:


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> Now you've got them it's better to hatch them all there, wait till they're free swimming then move the small number you will keep to a clean tank (preferably already setup with some wild aquatic plants and a bit of algae about) then release the rest to where they came from.
> 
> Even clumps of spawn have to be carefully acclimatised to different water quality and temperature, so moving it again isn't the best plan. For the same reason, when you go to return them don't just pour them in, you have to float them just as you would do to acclimatise fish.
> 
> ...


Nice to see some shots from the dalmatina project Lotte


----------



## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

i wish i could do something like this, there never seems to be any frogs around were i live, maybe because its Scotland? Do you get the same type of native frogs in England and Scotland:blush:?


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> i wish i could do something like this, there never seems to be any frogs around were i live, maybe because its Scotland? Do you get the same type of native frogs in England and Scotland:blush:?


There are now two species of frog regarded as native to England, one that is now extinct but has been reintroduced (i believe it was Charles Snell who had the very last known thriving East Anglian specimen in their care - though can't remember off the top of my head so it may well be someone else). However, you are only likely to find 'Common' frogs (Rana temporaria), which are Scotland's only native frog, although someone found an unidentified alien Bombina species recently in a strange place for accidental/deliberate release, so you never know, you may find something that shouldn't be there.


----------



## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

Alex M said:


> There are now two species of frog regarded as native to England, one that is now extinct but has been reintroduced (i believe it was Charles Snell who had the very last known thriving East Anglian specimen in their care - though can't remember off the top of my head so it may well be someone else). However, you are only likely to find 'Common' frogs (Rana temporaria), which are Scotland's only native frog, although someone found an unidentified alien Bombina species recently in a strange place for accidental/deliberate release, so you never know, you may find something that shouldn't be there.



So if i got my hands on some Rana temporaria spawn i could release them and they would be considered native not alien to Scotland?


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> So if i got my hands on some Rana temporaria spawn i could release them and they would be considered native not alien to Scotland?


Temporaria are native to Scotland anyway, but it is nowadays for good reason considered a bad idea relocating frogs/tadpoles/spawn due to ranavirus etc, especially if they're likely to come into any contact with any other amphibians in your collection (it can be as simple as passing a net between enclosures to spread chytrid etc, apologies if you already know this). Best thing to do is create a wildlife pond and wait and see what turns up, assuming you have a garden.


----------



## kevhutch (Feb 18, 2010)

i was always under the impression that your not allowed to remove spawn from where they have been laid :gasp:


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

kevhutch said:


> i was always under the impression that your not allowed to remove spawn from where they have been laid :gasp:


Generally it is perfectly legal to collect temporaria spawn, however, as with most things, there are always exceptions to the rules i.e collecting spawn from privately owned ground without permission etc etc, although it is not something i'd wish to encourage mind


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> So if i got my hands on some Rana temporaria spawn i could release them and they would be considered native not alien to Scotland?


If you do collect some spawn, and are planning on releasing the tadpoles, make sure you release them into the exact same place as where you collected the spawn. Do not put them into a different water system, because, as said you can spread diseases and such by doing that.



kevhutch said:


> i was always under the impression that your not allowed to remove spawn from where they have been laid :gasp:


Wrong. _Rana temporaria _is not an endangered species. There are very common, hence the name 'Common' Frogs.


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Wrong. _Rana temporaria _is not an endangered species. There are very common, hence the name 'Common' Frogs.


Hmmm. I would be interested to hear what your definition of 'very common' is... 

The simple fact is that they're in decline, and have been for some years now - many factors are contributing to this.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Alex M said:


> Hmmm. I would be interested on your definition of 'very common'...
> 
> The simple fact is that they're in decline, and have been for some years now - many factors are contributing to this.


 
You see a lot of them around where I am... I wasn't aware that they were in decline? - I could assume that water pollution isn't doing the amphibian species any favours as a whole.


----------



## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

My local garden and leisure megastore actually sells tadpole food.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Marinam2 said:


> My local garden and leisure megastore actually sells tadpole food.


 
Whats that....Algae? - If it isn't Algae, or wild pond plants then I won't feed them it. I want to keep them as natural as possible, as the majority will be released back to where they came from.


----------



## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

ahhh so i couldnt buy some in and then let them go near my house next to a stream. Oh well


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> ahhh so i couldnt buy some in and then let them go near my house next to a stream. Oh well


 
Sorry mate. They are our native frogs, they are not for sale. Hopefully will have some exotics next year that I may breed.


----------



## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Sorry mate. They are our native frogs, they are not for sale. Hopefully will have some exotics next year that I may breed.



I just wanted to try to increase the frog population around my area, i'm not really looking to buy any exotics, i just thought growing the frogs to sub-adult hood and letting them free would be quite fun, oh well.


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> You see a lot of them around where I am... I wasn't aware that they were in decline? - I could assume that water pollution isn't doing the amphibian species any favours as a whole.


Well, they may well have boomed since the 70's in garden ponds (which makes them appear 'common'), but overall they've lost far more natural habitat throughout the countryside i.e the building of roads etc through suitable habitat, farmers either filling in or unintentionally polluting ponds with cropspray or pesticides, and let's not forget the current diseases - it looks pretty bleak for them. I certainly saw more when i was a child and most leading experts believe they're very much in decline sadly.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> I just wanted to try to increase the frog population around my area, i'm not really looking to buy any exotics, i just thought growing the frogs to sub-adult hood and letting them free would be quite fun, oh well.


 
1) - That is not how conservation works. (Ask Saedcantas of the protocols and guidelines they may have to go by at Jersey Zoo for their conservation programs)

2) Re-locating amphibians is dangerous to the existing populations in the water system you're releasing the new ones into. Why? Ever heard of the saying "Coughs and Sneezes, spread diseases"? Similar context with animals, if an infected animal is relocated, it could spread and endanger the population.

Let the amphibians in that stretch of water do it naturally. One or two tadpoles won't make a blind bit of difference, as they'd probably be eaten anyway.


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm sorry I ever associated myself with this topic... :whistling2:


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> Sorry mate. They are our native frogs, they are not for sale. *Hopefully will have some exotics next year that I may breed.*


Please elaborate.


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

ipreferaflan said:


> Please elaborate.


I have no idea yet. Possibly Dart frogs, or White's Tree Frogs...My main objective is a snake or 3 though. Reptiles before amphibians.


----------



## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> 1) - That is not how conservation works. (Ask Saedcantas of the protocols and guidelines they may have to go by at Jersey Zoo for their conservation programs)
> 
> 2) Re-locating amphibians is dangerous to the existing populations in the water system you're releasing the new ones into. Why? Ever heard of the saying "Coughs and Sneezes, spread diseases"? Similar context with animals, if an infected animal is relocated, it could spread and endanger the population.
> 
> Let the amphibians in that stretch of water do it naturally. One or two tadpoles won't make a blind bit of difference, as they'd probably be eaten anyway.


No need to attack him... It was a pretty innocent idea...


----------



## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Alex M said:


> Well, they may well have boomed since the 70's in garden ponds (which makes them appear 'common'), but overall they've lost far more natural habitat throughout the countryside i.e the building of roads etc through suitable habitat, farmers either filling in or unintentionally polluting ponds with cropspray or pesticides, and let's not forget the current diseases - it looks pretty bleak for them. I certainly saw more when i was a child and most leading experts believe they're very much in decline sadly.


Yep Al your right i might have a good population in my wildlife pond out the garden but ALL the acres of marshland that used to have huge populations of frogs when i was a kid are now housing estates


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> I'm sorry I ever associated myself with this topic... :whistling2:


No, come on Lotte, you're not getting out that easy, let's hear about the 'protocols and guidelines' haha!


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

richie.b said:


> Yep Al your right i might have a good population in my wildlife pond out the garden but ALL the acres of marshland that used to have huge populations of frogs when i was a kid are now housing estates


Exactly my point Richie, it's a real shame - it mirrors exactly why Sand lizards and Smooth snakes have been declining... It's not so much them dying out, rather we are destroying their habitat and are looking for other excuses for their demise. We've lost 80 odd percent of Dorset's heathlands since the 70's, very sad...


----------



## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

becky89 said:


> No need to attack him... It was a pretty innocent idea...


 
I wasn't attacking him. I was saying the idea was crazy for reasons meantioned above.


By the way, Clump 1/2 started hatching today....a few of the taddies are wiggling about, and making their way to the outside of the Jelly.


----------

