# Any profit in breeding leos?



## Gecko_man (Mar 25, 2008)

I was just wondering....I know I'm really getting ahead of myself since I haven't even purchased my first leopard gecko yet, but is there any profit in small-scale breeding of leopard geckos? Or is it best just to breed them for fun, as just a little extra money on the side?

And what leo is in the most demand right now? Which would be easiest to sell?


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

The rarer the species the better mate


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

Small scale? not really

The less common morphs can bring in abit but with the viv for a trip, decor, feeding, incubating

even top end breeders somtime have to wait years before they make a profit


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## Kimmy173 (Aug 2, 2007)

you would have to be breeding many many geckos for it to be profitable. Many do it as a hobby more than anything. I breed mine to bring happiness to others. awww : victory:


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## Dork Knight (Mar 10, 2008)

I suppose if you spent some money on relevant morphs with a good bloodline, struck up a good rapport with a decent store which would take your Leos, then you would eventually make your money back and be able to make a little extra cash on the side.

God knows how much you would have to invest in all manner of known bloodlines, and how many for that matter, before you would make a profit and be able to understand if you could take this on as a full time thing.


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## labmad (Sep 23, 2007)

Also you wanna breed the morphs YOU like mate.......at the end of the day there are MANY breeders around and just in case you don't manage to sell any surplus babies then your prob gonna be left 'holding the baby' so to speak.....so make sure it's something you like


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

There's not really "profit" in any small scale breeding of reptiles (unless you're breeding something very rare/unusual).

My advice would definitely be pick the colour morphs you find attractive, if you need to make a profit from the animals you might hit a brick wall. If you do get a male/female, and they breed successfully, you may have the good fortune to get some moneys back - if you're really lucky, enough to pay for their food or to get some more equipment.

Most of us breeders breed to fuel our hobby, so we can afford to keep our collections and occasionally have a bit of cash to purchase new animals or upgrade equipment. Very few breeders make a "profit" at the end of the day, unless breeding high end colour morphs (and theres really a lot more money to be made in snakes, ie. high end royals, than there ever will be in lizards).

Don't forget if you actually started to make a "profit" you'd be liable to declare it to the tax man anyway, so really not worth it


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## johnc79 (Feb 29, 2008)

I had 2 and they bred in 06 and 07 with 6 young each year, Sold them for £40 each so I made a bit of extra cash but it was never about how much it was part of the challenge of the hobby. I felt great breeding them like a sense of achivement.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

you could defanatly make money but ud need loads of high end morphs or loads i think that big breeders produce about 100,000 a year probably alot more so evan if they get a tenner each work it out


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## Diablo (May 25, 2007)

Lol Just to say there isn't any profit in breeder on a small scale basis anyway. By the time you pay for food heat vivs etc you will be breaking even. Even though then again it will probably still owe you a bit.

What breeders do you know Jay that produce 100,000 a year? thats alot of leo's lol. If i wanted to with my leopard geckos i could clock on roughly a thousand but thats pushing it and breeding every female.


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## Philcw (Feb 7, 2008)

Diablo said:


> Lol Just to say there isn't any profit in breeder on a small scale basis anyway. By the time you pay for food heat vivs etc you will be breaking even. Even though then again it will probably still owe you a bit.
> 
> What breeders do you know Jay that produce 100,000 a year? thats alot of leo's lol. If i wanted to with my leopard geckos i could clock on roughly a thousand but thats pushing it and breeding every female.


If you were to breed 3 headed mack snows i think you could be onto a winner lol


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

dont no any but in on trempers book it says genraly all the leos inthe pet trade come from a handful of big breeders with some producing over 100,000 a year so just a quote mate doesnt ron produce these numbers though mark bell produced around that but obviosly not sure


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

1000 would do evan if u only got 30 quid each thats 30,000 with out inc nice morphs cant cost ya more then a few grand to keep do they?


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## Melon (Mar 3, 2008)

but to produce that you would need about 44 females + how many males u want eg. rotate them around. so less needed.. but even then looking about a big stock to begin with.. but worth not having to work.. planning for this in a few years time


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## Great-Geckos (Jul 25, 2007)

I personally would say no. By the time you have paid for all your set-ups, breeding stock, food etc, then there is the time you need to put into it. With the lower end morphs which really don't sell very easily, then you are looking at struggling to break even in your second year, let alone your first. To make serious money you will need as has been said, to buy some of the newer morphs that are coming out, so you are looking at investing a lot of money. Then you may be up against the likes of the coming enigma price crash, which enevitably happens over certain morphs - its totally unpredictable which.
So - unless its totally hobby based and your heart is in it for the breeding thrill and satisfaction, I doubt very much if anybody makes any money breeding. Been there, done it. Didn't even make enough money to get the t'shirt.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

realy i thought ud be able to make a few grand on the side evan if u started with 8 females 2 males then kept off spring ud get a nice collection in the end, doesnt neccarily need to be high end morphs just some snow,blizzards ,blazzing blizzards and albinos u get some nice babies and make a few grand ontop although i no theres alot of work involved ud still make a bit surely oh well i only got mine coz i like em and the breedings interesting and nice to see hoping a make a few grand in a few years but dont matter if i dont


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

jaykickboxer said:


> 1000 would do evan if u only got 30 quid each thats 30,000 with out inc nice morphs cant cost ya more then a few grand to keep do they?


You make very little money to give you an idear I have around 300 reps food is 450 a month (trade)and electric is 120 a month also you have vet bills etc so unless your very large scale its a nightmare.

Mines slowing getting lower due to breeding own food sources and tring new means of heating.

I used to breed snakes large scale many years ago we had 400 and yes we made money then but we also bred directly for a large wholesaler.

p x


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Of course theres money to be made, there always is.
The amount is what varies.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

dam right id say so too


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Gecko_man said:


> I was just wondering....I know I'm really getting ahead of myself since I haven't even purchased my first leopard gecko yet, but is there any profit in small-scale breeding of leopard geckos? Or is it best just to breed them for fun, as just a little extra money on the side?
> 
> And what leo is in the most demand right now? Which would be easiest to sell?


Small-scale breeding... well, how about you take a look at this, which I posted around this time last year:

The ability to profit by small scale breeding of low-end geckos is... in my experience at least... negligible. 

Here's a sort of profit/loss statement for my project thus far (prices are what I remember, and might not be completely accurate):

(Amounts in *red bold* are what I've paid out, amounts in _*green italic bold*_ are what I've gotten back.)

*Year 1*
1 4X4X2 viv = - *£60 *(mostly home built)
1 27X11 heat mat = - *£20*
1 mat stat = - *£25*
2 patternless "females" who turned out to be males = - *£70*
2 11X17 heat mats = -*£40*
Another mat stat = -*£25*
Building 2 36 X 18 X 18 vivs = -*£40*
1 blizzard female = -*£35*
1 albino female = -*£30*
1 hypo female = -*£25*
1 super hypo tangerine adult female = *-£75* 
Vet bills for Blizzard female (died of sand impaction) = *£100+*
Sale of SHTCT female (female-aggressive) = *£45*
1 Super hypo Tangerine het patternless hatchling born, *retained for breeding.*
*All other eggs infertile/failed - females too young.*
-------------------------------------------------------------
Results year 1: *£500 paid out NOT including feeding costs.*


*Year 2*
Bought breeding pair of het blazing blizzards, Ray Hine = *£225*
Normal female obtained from Ray Hine =* £0*
Bought pre-built vivarium stack for space reasons =* £350*
1 Hypo tangerine het patternless hatchling born, *retained for breeding.*
*All other eggs failed. Changed incubation methods for year 3.*
-------------------------------------------------------------
Results year 2: *£575 paid out NOT including feeding costs.*

*Year 3*
1 snake eyed blizzard female bought = *£45*
1.0 hypo traded for a baby corn = *£0* 
1.2 normal/hypo het blizzard poss albino sold = *£45*
0.2 normal/hypo/aberrant het blizzard poss albino sold to Nienna = *£30*
0.8 normal+hypo and 1 albino sold to local shop = *£80 store credit*
0.4 normal/hypo donated to Bishop Burton college = *£0*
1.2 normal/hypo het blizzard poss albino sold to Kennedykrew = *£20*
0.3 babies (blazing blizzard, aberrant and albino)*retained for breeding.*
Some hatchlings euthanised as non-feeders due to developmental issues relating to heat spike in incubation.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Results year 3: *£130 taken in - does not include feeding costs.*

*Year 4*
Bred to a "loaner" male owned by Nienna = *Agreed that profits will be split.*
Built hatchling rack and incubator = *£40* (Nienna paid *£40* also)
Vet bills for Albino Celaeno (purchased year 1, died with egg binding from freak three-egg clutch) =* £45*
Vet bills for SHT Keid (born year 1, died with egg binding from freak three-egg clutch) =* £15*
*No eggs fertile from ANY female - the year is a total wash.*
--------------------------------------------------------------
Results year 4: *£100 not including feeding costs* 

.... and you can bet I'm not breeding geckos next year. After losing my two favourite females.... I just don't want to do it again.

Good luck if you want to make money doing it. 

*How do you make a small fortune breeding reptiles? Start with a big one.*

Oh. One last thing. If you include the feeding, electricity and other little 'incidental' costs (and I'm sure I've forgotten one of the patternless boys' trip to the vet for an abcess in his eyelid AND vet trips for an egg-bound gecko who lived - probably adding £200 to the total) it comes out closer to* £2700 in the last four years.* Who says this is an expensive hobby.... uhh.. me!

Breed what you like. Breed what you enjoy. Don't expect to profit unless you're going to treat it as a business and invest as such.

Realistically speaking there are only three ways to make money from selling baby reptiles that you've bred yourself:

1. *Wholesale*. Work with dozens to hundreds of females, use the cheapest rack systems you can build and sell your babies almost straight out of the egg wholesale to shops or dealers. You won't make much on any given baby, but you'll come out ahead because you're not keeping them longer than you have to - and you didn't have to spend much to get your original animals because you weren't working towards special morphs either.

2. *Jump the First Wave*. This one needs LOTS of money to work. Buy in the "latest morph" in the first wave - when you're talking hundreds to thousands per animal - and be one of the first people to breed the animals in the UK. Expensive outlay, but fast return. You've got to be in the first wave to manage it, though - otherwise, your investment loses value very quickly as everyone ELSE gets their own.

3. *Genetic Experimentation*. No, not literally! Get animals of several different morphs - or animals with known hets that will make fantastic combination morphs. This one takes time and patience - that first "high end" animal, you might be TEMPTED to sell it... but you need to keep it so that the following year (or later) you can use THAT to breed back to the parent and produce more of them. This is my own method. Never mind stumping up a grand or more to buy, say, a Lavender Stripe corn snake - I've picked up hets that should hopefully let me make my own. And though they'll be cheapER than when I got my het pair, they're still a rare enough combination that I should be able to pay for the reptile food bill for a couple of months if I get just one.


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## Gecko_man (Mar 25, 2008)

wow, thanks!

Ok so then not too much to be made, but even if you don't make anything it would be lot of fun!


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## Brat (Oct 7, 2007)

If yo have the money, go for it, don't expect to make money and if you do, well done.
Im going to be breeding for the experience, I will sell on the babies but certanly wont ever breed enough to make it profitable.
In the last year alone, on Reptiles, vivariums and decor I've easily spent £3k, but I enjoy it!


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