# Vaccine Damage in Dogs



## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Following a recent post by someone whose dog had developed problems after its annual booster and the number of cases of dogs with cancers that have been attributed to vaccines, I though this article might be of interest.

Studies are now being carried out on both dogs and cats and these are finding that annual boosters are not necessary, yet some vets are continuing to insist that this is necessary. A lot of responsible owners are now titre testing their dogs to check for the antibodies that prove the booster is unnecessary, but with some dogs (mine for example who is unpredictable and frightened of the vet) that just isn't possible.

Anyway, I thought members might find this interesting reading.

It's a direct link to the German Shepherd Dog Rescue website and the founder has been given permission to upload and share this by Dogs Today and Canine Health Concern.

Vaccine Damage in Dogs


Also this one, which I have already shared on the post mentioned above.

http://www.petwelfarealliance.org/vets-on-vaccines.html


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I think I read somewhere that many vets are reluctant to give up on the annual booster vaccination because it's a secure regular income... but I may be too cynical here.

The last time Trigger was vaccinated was 2 years before we brought him with us to the UK. By then the 3 yearly rabies vaccine was already accepted. All he needed was a travel health certificate and worm and tick treatment from the vets (between 24-48 hours before traveling, bleugh, weekend fees).
I've not bothered since and he's been absolutely fine. 
Storm could have potentially brought in kennel cough when we got her from Dogs Trust, as many shelters carry the disease, but again both were fine.
She's had her booster after DT vaccinated her (it was in the contract), but since then I've not had it done. 
If we ever travel to Germany where my mum stays, they'll both need the rabies jab and titre test though and unfortunately most boarding kennels still insist on annual vaccinations, too.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I was once told that vaccinations and boosters were the vets "bread & butter" so to speak and that could be right, but it's also the vaccine company's money maker isn't it?

I stopped boostering my cats many years ago, but because I wanted to show them I had no choice for those cat as the Governing Body insists on annual boosters. Once a cat was retired I stopped straight away. So anyone who wants to kennel their dog is in a similar situation and I have to say, given all the research being done I think they're wrong.

Also read somewhere recently that the kennel cough vaccine doesn't work anyway? Can't remember where I read it though :blush:


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

Maybe there's different types of kennel cough? At Dogs Trust during the adoption "seminar" they told everyone outright, that although all their dogs are vaccinated before being rehomed, new owners can expect their new family member to bring in kennel cough and if the dog is coughing they would pay for vet treatment. 
We've been lucky so far, none of the dogs have ever caught it, but my neighbours' Malamute did bring it with him and infected a couple of dogs in the street, mainly pups and old dogs.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I vaccinated Tara, my Afghan Hound and then gave her her first booster (after that I stopped), but before that first booster ran out she got lepto, so it didn't stop her getting it, although it may have helped her get over it better, who can say.

I just wonder why we humans don't have to have boosters after all the vaccinations we have as children?? What's the difference?


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

feorag said:


> I was once told that vaccinations and boosters were the vets "bread & butter" so to speak and that could be right, but it's also the vaccine company's money maker isn't it?
> 
> I stopped boostering my cats many years ago, but because I wanted to show them I had no choice for those cat as the Governing Body insists on annual boosters. Once a cat was retired I stopped straight away. So anyone who wants to kennel their dog is in a similar situation and I have to say, given all the research being done I think they're wrong.
> 
> Also read somewhere recently that the kennel cough vaccine doesn't work anyway? Can't remember where I read it though :blush:


I've heard that ' bread and butter' theory as well . ..Who knows ? I'm sure there's a vet around the forum somewhere. 

We got lucky ... our local vet was charging £50 a year for boosters but their competitors had a special offer of a one-off payment of £100 for a lifetime of boosters .
I wonder if they know that Italian Greyhounds live anywhere between 18 and 22 years


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Skye was 11 month old when I got him, so I gave him his first annual booster at 14 months and he's had one since - 3 years later and he'll not be getting any more. My vet was quite happy with this arrangement.

If you missed 2 years of boosters most vets would insist on doing the full primary course again.


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## Rogue665 (Mar 17, 2010)

Mine got their puppies and their yearly booster and another as afterwards and wont be having anymore.
my vets are awkward though they will want to do the whole puppy course again if i let them, so annoying, new pup will be getting her yearly boost and perhaps one a few years later.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Vaccines are evil. They are not good for people either, obviously with the propaganda and negative attitudes to people against vaccinations most don't see this.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Vaccines are evil. They are not good for people either, obviously with the propaganda and negative attitudes to people against vaccinations most don't see this.


Vaccines save millions of lives. Due to ridiculous conspiracy theories spun by celebrities without a clue about science many entirely preventable and deadly childhood diseases are rearing their ugly heads. Not vaccinating children against these entirely preventable diseases is tantamount to child abuse.

Of course, despite thousands and thousands of scientific papers and articles and investigations showing all of the above to be true, it must actually just be 'propaganda' and 'negative attitudes' and actually Jenny Macarthy is a scientific genius who is standing up against the 'big pharms' like a veritable hero and saving all our children from these evil vaccinations...


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

I haven't heard any by celebrity's, not sure why I would listen to those either. Sure, they prevent many diseases but also cause many more issues. 

This article is quite good for a quick read. 

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/six-reasons-to-say-no-to-vaccination/


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Every singe piece of information in that article is disingeneous, dishonest and the majority of it is out and out lies.

It is an internet page written by someone who clearly has an agenda against vaccinations. It uses emotive language and jargon laden pseudoscience to fool the layman into thinking it is written by a person with sound knowledge. Key points like 'it's your choice, I'm just giving advice' imply the writer is not bias and only wants what is best for you, then they go on to write grossly misleading and factually incorrect points to lead you to think that vaccines are evil (but remember its your choice, I'm not trying to influence you at all - vaccines are evil btw).

Quotes like "The longer you wait to vaccinate your child, the better" are utterly disgraceful and I believe that anyone who listens to this writers drivel, fails to vaccinate and then has a child die when they contract that disease should be sent down for manslaughter and the writer should be jailed for her part in that childs death.


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Your replies are seemingly written by a person with an agenda against anti vaccinations though. Does this make it irrelevant? 

Here is a collection of scientific reports, much longer obviously. 

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/30-scientific-studies-showing-the-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/

Also, there is one simple fact that I would like an explanation for. Why have autism cases risen massively since the small pox vaccination was first introduced and other subsequent vaccinations? It is not simply a few anomalous results either, as the numbers are drastically clear in that they show this huge increase.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Everyone of those studies has been debunked. There is NO link between vaccines and autism. Correlation does not imply causation.

The websites you are linking to are bias, propaganda based websites with specific agendas (political and economical). You may as well link to PETA for a balanced discussion of animal welfare in reptile keeping - they'll show you all sorts of 'science' too - written by people with an agenda too, not independent, impartial scientists.

My only agenda is the health and well being of millions of children that is being jeopardised by these ridiculous conspiracy theories.


Let me put it this way. Even if there was a link between autism and vaccinations (there isn't), are you seriously trying to say that having autism is worse than dying from polio or dying from measles??!! 



As you like links, try this one. It sums up the complete lack of any sort of scientific knowledge that these sites have and the ridiculous nature of the 'science' they use to back up their claims:

Spurious Correlations


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

This is definitely worth a read. These websites are not 'saving the children from Autism' they are lining their pockets on lawsuits and fear mongering.


A case of junk science, conflict and hype : Article : Nature Immunology


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## FishForLife2001 (Sep 23, 2014)

Hmm, I see your point now. 

I didn't like vaccinations before this discussion, and I still don't. I am now not so strongly anti vaccination though. However I must admit I could be more open minded. I do quite a lot of research into conspiracies and most are complete falsehoods. Perhaps this is one of them. I can't completely change my view because of one person on a forum but you have just eroded most of the "facts" I had thought to be true so I don't have much left to support the anti vaccination view.

Anyway, thanks for your time and for opening my mind a bit.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

One of the major differences between vaccination children and animals is that, with most vaccines once vaccinated the child is protected for life by that vaccine.

My question is why is this not the case with our animals??? Why do our animals have to have annual boosters and our children don't?


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

feorag said:


> One of the major differences between vaccination children and animals is that, with most vaccines once vaccinated the child is protected for life by that vaccine.
> 
> My question is why is this not the case with our animals??? Why do our animals have to have annual boosters and our children don't?


That is a very interesting question and one I will look into.

I know some of our vaccinations do require boosters but usually a single one a year after the first that gives us the protection for 10 years plus....


A quick google suggests that many of the pet boosters do actually appear to last longer than a year (some upwards of seven years) but because many kennels and insurance companies demand annual boosters we seem to have accepted it.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

FishForLife2001 said:


> Hmm, I see your point now.
> 
> I didn't like vaccinations before this discussion, and I still don't. I am now not so strongly anti vaccination though. However I must admit I could be more open minded. I do quite a lot of research into conspiracies and most are complete falsehoods. Perhaps this is one of them. I can't completely change my view because of one person on a forum but you have just eroded most of the "facts" I had thought to be true so I don't have much left to support the anti vaccination view.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your time and for opening my mind a bit.


You are more than welcome. Thank you for the links you gave and helping me see how deep the anti-vax agenda has got. It has definitely opened my eyes.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

bothrops said:


> That is a very interesting question and one I will look into.
> 
> I know some of our vaccinations do require boosters but usually a single one a year after the first that gives us the protection for 10 years plus....
> 
> ...


Certainly tetanus doesn't protect for life and I remember being told when I needed a tetanus injection about 10 years ago that children get a pre-school booster and another before they leave school, but my children were never given any boosters after their primary course of vaccinations.

As far as pet boosters are concerned I know more about cats than dogs because I bred cats for over 20 years so kept very up to date on cat health matters and attended a lot of veterinary symposiums on cats. Unfortunately lost the link years ago when my computer packed up, but Cornell University did a study on at vaccines about 15 or more years ago and they concluded that annual boosters were unnecessary. The flu and enteritis vaccines protected for at least 3 years, but the FeLV needed to be given every 2 (I think!!)

What bothered me more was that one of the serious (so not 'common', but worrying nonetheless) side effects was that some cats were developing sarcomas at the injection site up to months after the vaccination was given. General advice went around that it would be better to vaccinate in the upper hind leg, so that if a sarcoma developed the leg could be amputated, thereby saving the life of the cat.

As far as dogs are concerned a cat breeding friend of mine told me 15 years ago that a dog breeding friend of hers had stopped vaccinating and started titre testing. She'd titre test her puppies after their primary vaccinations and interestingly in some cases those puppies were not protected and she had to carry out the primary course again. However, once she got the right reading on the titre test, she would thereafter regularly titre test the dogs and she'd never had an adult dog that needed a booster!

So it then begs the question are dogs thoroughly protected by their primary course of vaccination??

It really does open a can of worms, doesn't it?


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

Absolutely loving following this, some really good information cropping up and some very good questions too. I too have not had my dog re-vaccinated after positive titer tests, this however was at the behest of a friend who IS a vet. Who gave me the tired shake of the head when I asked and assured me that further injections were not required, since I'd had successful tests.

She did go on to state that in some cases the vaccines don't work and that's why the annual vaccination thing go's on, so that every dog is guaranteed to be covered. Quite up front, she also mentioned that without annual vaccinations vet's would be rather short of work, and insurance would be much harder to get.


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

As a note, I have not, and never will, allow my dogs to be vaccinated against Leptospirosis.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

All very true. 43 years ago I vaccinated my Afghan Bitch, then followed up with her first annual booster and within 6 months she contracted lepto! So I believe that the primary vaccination might not always give full protection.

If my dog wasn't a high anxiety dog and very fear aggressive, there's no question that I would titre test him rather than booster, but it would be a really stressful situation for my vet to get blood out of him - both for him and my vet :lol: Instead I boostered him 3 years later.

I also believe that dogs' immune systems are challenged on a daily basis during their walks.


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## polaris2582 (Jan 19, 2011)

feorag said:


> All very true. 43 years ago I vaccinated my Afghan Bitch, then followed up with her first annual booster and within 6 months she contracted lepto! So I believe that the primary vaccination might not always give full protection.
> 
> If my dog wasn't a high anxiety dog and very fear aggressive, there's no question that I would titre test him rather than booster, but it would be a really stressful situation for my vet to get blood out of him - both for him and my vet :lol: Instead I boostered him 3 years later.
> 
> I also believe that dogs' immune systems are challenged on a daily basis during their walks.



Agreed. I'm always very keen to get new dogs out as soon as they've had their primary jabs, to start building a healthy immune system. I'm lucky in that mine are both working dogs, and other than a cruciate ligament injury in my jack russell neither have ever been sick.

My grans cat however was as healthy as a horse up until she got him his first jags in 8 years, he rapidly developed an extreme itchy rash reaction which he scratched raw for several months (vet's were clueless, every cream under the sun, antihistamine, steroids the lot) this was DIRECTLY on the site of the vaccination, we had to make a jacket for him poor thing as he had scratched himself down to bare flesh! Gran takes him in for a check up to check rash progression (6 months after initial treatment, no improvement in site) which the vet then injected OVER!!! This seems to have been the last straw for poor cat... the EXACT spot then progressed into a calcifying cancer. We had to have him put down one month later due to the rapid progression of the cancer. Vet bills were waved as even they admitted they should ever have injected over an unknown rash. Needless to say we haven't looked their way since!


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Our dog Milo only had one booster this year as the vet said he didn't need the other as the vaccine lasted longer, but I'll carry on with his as apart from ever needing to put him in kennels (so far he hasn't ) I don't think his insurance would be valid if he wasn't kept up with his boosters (not sure on that). We never intend having to use kennels but all the family live so far away and if anything happened then that might be a possibility, a bit like his monthly Advocate worm treatment I am in the habit of doing it on the same day of the month so it never gets forgot and again I like him covered should he ever have to be kept elsewhere. We didn't bother so much with the old terriers but they weren't insured and much tougher than Milo plus they didn't sleep in the same bed as us :blush:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

polaris2582 said:


> My grans cat however was as healthy as a horse up until she got him his first jags in 8 years, he rapidly developed an extreme itchy rash reaction which he scratched raw for several months (vet's were clueless, every cream under the sun, antihistamine, steroids the lot) this was DIRECTLY on the site of the vaccination, we had to make a jacket for him poor thing as he had scratched himself down to bare flesh! Gran takes him in for a check up to check rash progression (6 months after initial treatment, no improvement in site) which the vet then injected OVER!!! This seems to have been the last straw for poor cat... the EXACT spot then progressed into a calcifying cancer. We had to have him put down one month later due to the rapid progression of the cancer. Vet bills were waved as even they admitted they should ever have injected over an unknown rash. Needless to say we haven't looked their way since!


I know of a lot of cats who had exactly this reaction to the vaccination. Not all went on to develop a sarcoma, but as I said earlier it is proven now that this happens with vaccinations :sad:



annsimpson1 said:


> I don't think his insurance would be valid if he wasn't kept up with his boosters (not sure on that)


The way I read my Pet Plan policy is that if Skye isn't vaccinated then he isn't insured for any problems that can be vaccinated against - if that makes sense? So the insurance will cover accidents and illnesses other than those that vaccines are thought to prevent.


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## Tiger-Tiger (Sep 9, 2008)

As a breeder of Dobermanns, we've advised new owners again annual vacs, but for piece of mine to have blood tests carried out if the feel the need. 

We've refused owners wanting to wait to have there own vacs done at a later week 10-12 rather than 7-8 as we feel this prevents the early socialisation the pups need with the out side world, dogs and humans.

With our dogs we carried out first vacs then a year booster (12months old) but now with more info around we will only do first vacs.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Typical to read all this negative stuff about boosters when we paid up front in advance for a lifetime course 

I was under the impression that insurance policies required the insured dog to have the annual boosters ?? 
We're with PetPlan . 
Same applies to boarding kennels and the like ..


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Zincubus said:


> Typical to read all this negative stuff about boosters when we paid up front in advance for a lifetime course
> 
> I was under the impression that insurance policies required the insured dog to have the annual boosters ??
> We're with PetPlan .
> Same applies to boarding kennels and the like ..


Alot of boarding kennels wont take un vaccinated dogs you are correct, and insurance policies it usually only applies to things the vaccine covers.
i personally vaccinate every year. Would rather be safe than sorry


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Zincubus said:


> I was under the impression that insurance policies required the insured dog to have the annual boosters ??
> We're with PetPlan .
> Same applies to boarding kennels and the like ..


I'm with Pet Plan, but as I've said above and Mitsi has also said I believe the non-vaccination only negates problems that you vaccinate against.

Other than that, as I understand it, my dog is covered for everything else and I'm OK with that.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm with Pet Plan, too, and they've never asked for any vaccination proof when I put my claims in for Trigger's hydrotherapy and dental treatments, but that's not to say other insurances have different policies.
It would make sense if he came down with Parvo though, because they would regard this as preventable (he's had his first vaccine and 2 boosters, so should be protected).


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