# What age should you sell a Beardie????



## Clench (Dec 18, 2010)

hi peepz bit of a weird thread but i'd like to get a few second opinions.. was out with the missus today at the local garden centre and inside hosts a little pet shop that varies from parrots to fish to rabbits ducks and all kinds of reptiles.. To my amazement there were some incredibly small bearded dragons and i mean small!! Went over to the cashier and asked how much they were and how old they were.. 

What came from her mouth completely shocked me!! They were selling 2 WEEK old bearded dragons for £60 just like the juvies they were selling at 3months old.. As far as i was aware any reptuable reptile centre or even private breeders should only sell reptiles that are 8weeks old or more as long as they were healthy... I wont name the company as i dont wanna get RFUK into any trouble but when i contacted the Head Office of the business they didnt care what so ever about what was going on!! And referred to the bearded dragons as 'PRODUCTS', not ANIMALS!!!

Is there any law or form of Reptile Club that stops any form of mis treatment to reptiles cos in my opinion this is totally careless with no respect towards the animals.... Seems nowadays its all about the money!!


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## stanthelizardlover96 (Sep 26, 2010)

my friend bought a beardie from a reptile store and was told he was 9 weeks which i didnt belive as he was so tiny he could perch on his playstation controller thumbstick which is like 1 in diameter. i dont think they should be sold so young.:devil:


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## Nike_T7 (Jun 14, 2010)

I got mine about 8 weeks old and it was alright because she was eating, doing all those stuff that bearded dragon do. Now she is a sub-adult with no problems to her health. : victory:


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

When they are eating, pooing and shedding with no difficulties


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## xtyler123x (Mar 11, 2011)

reptiles should be sold when they are 8 weeks old so that you know that they are eating , sheeding and pooing fine so that the customers will be happy with what they buy


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## jetski (Apr 7, 2008)

if they are obviously healthy, active, eating and pooing fine I don't see the problem. its not like it needs to be weaned from its mother. who's better looking after it? the pet shop or a loving home?


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm not sure you could even tell at 2 weeks old whether they were shedding and eating properly. The breeder wouldn't have had time to fully assess each dragon properly in that time really.

I think its getting to the 'breed and get rid before you have to feed' stage with lizards the same as it did a few years ago kittens and puppies. Get rid of them before you have to start forking out any expense to actually make sure they are healthy.

Personally I'd say 8 weeks old and at least over a certain weight. I was advised that 13g was the minimum safe weight to transport baby beardies and I'll stick by that advice. Gives them a bit of leaway if they refuse food for a few days after being moved.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

i would say at two weeks old theres a chance they have not had there first shed
at this age it is totally irresponsible of the breeder, and pet shop for taking them
i would say its the breeder got rid so no feeding
and the pet shop got them cheap

i would never sell a baby on its age
its on its weight
a min of 15g to some one who's kept dragons
and a min 20g/25g to a new keeper
most of mine are 50g plus before i like to let them go
its piece of mind for me that there totally feeding well and have had at least 4 sheds


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## jetski (Apr 7, 2008)

what's the danger of letting them go before they shed? what's an average age of a 15g bearded dragon? ill be having some rankin's dragons hatch in a few weeks and wondering about minimum ages/sizes before I let them go


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

They all grow at totally different speeds and age means nothing.
I just weighed one of mine and he is 2 weeks old today and weighs 14 grams a lot of the ones in the pet shops wont weight this much at 8 weeks....

Some will grow like rockets some will naturally grow slower but I think all that matter is that they are eating well.

If I am selling to another breeder I will sell them at 3 weeks and if selling them privately it will be from 4 weeks old as long as they are big enough.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

jetski said:


> what's the danger of letting them go before they shed? what's an average age of a 15g bearded dragon? ill be having some rankin's dragons hatch in a few weeks and wondering about minimum ages/sizes before I let them go


 
the problems you may get letting a dragon go at two weeks

shedding
first you need to know if the dragon is shedding fine
some can have trouble clearing shed from the end of there tail and there toes, this can Lead to pieces falling off, and you don't wont that,
this problem is mostly in truth, down to husbandry, as well as condition change and as you have no control over either its not recommended 
the little guy would only be 14 days old,you have to give them a chance to find there feet
all so shedding lets you know there growing well,in turn feeding well 
you would not like to sell a poor growing/shedding dragon
its not fair on the new owner to get a poor dragon
and you would soon get a poor reputation to match

age and weight

15g is an absolute minimum and very rarely done by me to be true full
as all dragons are different this is hard to put a time on
the biggest and fastest growing one in a clutch may reach 15g in 3 to 5 weeks , where the slow ones may be 5 to 7 weeks some can take up to 8 to 10 weeks, its all to do with genes , feeding , heat , light is short husbandry

to conclude
when becoming a breeder i feel its your obligation and duty to produce

a genetically sound dragon
with good body mass
healthy
feeding well
pooping well
shedding well
to complete all these categories i feel this cannot be achieved, in fact i believe its nearly impossible to do in 14 days

now as for your rankings here I'm sorry i cant really help with the min size to sell them, as Ive never bred them,so i don't know if there's any inherent problems you need to look for in the baby's
but if i was you i would be looking at a weight of at least 10g as a min
but probably to make sure i would keep them for at least 8 to 10 weeks
not knowing there growth rates

breeding reptiles in my mind is all about improving your knowledge
solving and overcoming any inherent problems you may find, in turn producing the best in my case dragon you can
i don't think this would be achieved in selling babies at 14 days old
as a breeder your responsible for creating life,so obligated to give it the best chance of a full and healthy life you can, or in my mind you shouldn't bother
its a life we are talking about don't cut corners

mark


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

imginy said:


> They all grow at totally different speeds and age means nothing.
> I just weighed one of mine and he is 2 weeks old today and weighs 14 grams a lot of the ones in the pet shops wont weight this much at 8 weeks....
> 
> Some will grow like rockets some will naturally grow slower but I think all that matter is that they are eating well.
> ...


 
hi there

14g at two weeks is a phenomenal achievement very well done
I'm known for producing very very large babies
and you have achieved something i fined nearly impossible
is this a one off or dose this happen regular????
I'm intrigued????
do you know the genetics of the pairing???
whats your feeding regime????

we must talk:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> hi there
> 
> 14g at two weeks is a phenomenal achievement very well done
> I'm known for producing very very large babies
> ...


haha someones eyes have just lit up big time :lol2:


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> haha someones eyes have just lit up big time :lol2:


 
are you not intrigued????

that size in that time:gasp::gasp::gasp:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> are you not intrigued????
> 
> that size in that time:gasp::gasp::gasp:


haha it must be an absolute beast :lol2:


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## Nigel_wales (Mar 24, 2009)

woodrott said:


> are you not intrigued????
> 
> that size in that time:gasp::gasp::gasp:


 
That's some growth rate!


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> haha it must be an absolute beast :lol2:


ive just been through my diary and amber my 1200g female was only
5g at birth 11g at 2 weeks she would of been over 3 weeks at 14g
this must of been some egg


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> ive just been through my diary and amber my 1200g female was only
> 5g at birth 11g at 2 weeks she would of been over 3 weeks at 14g
> this must of been some egg


wow and amber is a monster too lol that couldnt ofbeen to comfortable passing that :gasp:


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## Nigel_wales (Mar 24, 2009)

woodrott said:


> ive just been through my diary and amber my 1200g female was only
> 5g at birth 11g at 2 weeks she would of been over 3 weeks at 14g
> this must of been some egg


 
Put a pic of Amber up Mark.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> wow and amber is a monster too lol that couldnt ofbeen to comfortable passing that :gasp:


no amber and her sister jade were big eggs
an average baby dragon at birth is 2.5g to 3.5 g so at 5g she was approx
30 to 40% bigger than the rest of the clutch
i wonder what size the baby was at birth??? must of been 6 to 7g:flrt:
very good genetics and top husbandry when it came to cycle feeding

or ?????????

has she got the dates wrong?????
thinking about it its got to be ,to good to be true
if its a regular occurrence i need to know:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> no amber and her sister jade were big eggs
> an average baby dragon at birth is 2.5g to 3.5 g so at 5g she was approx
> 30 to 40% bigger than the rest of the clutch
> i wonder what size the baby was at birth??? must of been 6 to 7g:flrt:
> ...


so if it is true and you got one her babies grew it on to breed say and bred it with amber. would that result in a % of extra large babies ? or would they still be normal sized babies ?


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> so if it is true and you got one her babies grew it on to breed say and bred it with amber. would that result in a % of extra large babies ? or would they still be normal sized babies ?


this would be selective breeding
yes its possible, but as Amber's baby's are big any way, its knowing what %
would come from the new genetics if any
selective breeding for one Pacific gene is not that simple to reproduce the % are all ways against you


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> this would be selective breeding
> yes its possible, but as Amber's baby's are big any way, its knowing what %
> would come from the new genetics if any
> selective breeding for one Pacific gene is not that simple to reproduce the % are all ways against you


right i understand now lol im totally clueless about this sort of thing :blush:but always willing to learn lol

anyway where is this giant baby:mf_dribble:


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

kirky1980 said:


> right i understand now lol im totally clueless about this sort of thing :blush:but always willing to learn lol
> 
> anyway where is this giant baby:mf_dribble:


clueless,,,,,me too

a pic is not what I'm interested in,,, its the details
it would prove nothing unless hatch date could be proved
I'm more interested in is it a common size with this breeder
if so whats the feeding regime????
what size are the pairing????
is it genetic????
is it husbandry????
sorry I'm nosey


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

woodrott said:


> clueless,,,,,me too
> 
> a pic is not what I'm interested in,,, its the details
> it would prove nothing unless hatch date could be proved
> ...


i must admit if i was you id be wanting to find this out aswell ill be watching this thread more more info :2thumb:


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

woodrott said:


> hi there
> 
> 14g at two weeks is a phenomenal achievement very well done
> I'm known for producing very very large babies
> ...


Hi thanks :2thumb:
I only incubated 9 eggs from this pairing and this one was by far the biggest one in the clutch here is the weight of the others all taken today (14 grams) then 10,10,8,7,7,7,6
The clutch hatched out between 14th and 18th of may so she might be an extra few days.
Since being born they have been feed mainly dubia roaches 4 times a day and some times they will get crickets or turks and they are bathed once every day.
Here is a photo of her with 2 of her siblings the smallest one and an average size one.








Also here is a pic of her hunting notice her long legs and body and please excuse the mess..








I know a photo proves nothing but I would be happy to keep you updated with a photo once a week so you can see her grow. 

Genetics mum is nottingham dragons (snoopy x angelus) Dad is Hades (luca x amber)

I bought dragons from top breeders and put them together and I have followed advise from you Jo, Gav, and Andy. 

I have only been doing this a short time and they are not consistently huge like your ones but the average size of the dragons has been pretty big and I have had one or two in each clutch getting real big real fast. 

Here is a couple of pics of some other big ones I have from different pairing (same father)
Here is viper (in shed) at 70 days today 55 grams 








Here is an 8 day old baby at 8 grams (the biggest in its clutch)


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

imginy said:


> Hi thanks :2thumb:
> I only incubated 9 eggs from this pairing and this one was by far the biggest one in the clutch here is the weight of the others all taken today (14 grams) then 10,10,8,7,7,7,6
> The clutch hatched out between 14th and 18th of may so she might be an extra few days.
> Since being born they have been feed mainly dubia roaches 4 times a day and some times they will get crickets or turks and they are bathed once every day.
> ...


 

aaaaaahhhhhhhh
i see a light????? maybe??????
both Andy and Gav have fire and ice dragons
Andy i think if i remember wright had the old lines????
Gav had my baby's from amber[shes the old line too] nova x griffin

this may be a possibility it would be nice to know???
did you get any pedigrees with the dragons????
anyway top effort keep it up


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

imginy said:


> Hi thanks :2thumb:
> I only incubated 9 eggs from this pairing and this one was by far the biggest one in the clutch here is the weight of the others all taken today (14 grams) then 10,10,8,7,7,7,6
> The clutch hatched out between 14th and 18th of may so she might be an extra few days.
> Since being born they have been feed mainly dubia roaches 4 times a day and some times they will get crickets or turks and they are bathed once every day.
> ...


holy s:censor: :gasp: thats a whopper lol what a size for a beardie that age :no1:


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

woodrott said:


> aaaaaahhhhhhhh
> i see a light????? maybe??????
> both Andy and Gav have fire and ice dragons
> Andy i think if i remember wright had the old lines????
> ...


I think the one off Gav is red dragons den import crossed with a yellow phase
I think the one off Hades is import from italy crossed with import from wdd.


I didn't realise this dragon was especially big until you said and since finding out I have been giving the dragon extra special attention :mf_dribble:

With all the extra special attention the dragon has gone from 14g to 19g in 2 days. 

My aim now is to get a her over 1k by the end of the year if you have any tips for me please let me know.

I will post some pics so you can see how she filled out. :2thumb:
2 days later


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## imginy (Jun 14, 2009)

Also the yellow baby in the middle that was 10 grams 2 days ago is now 15 grams. :gasp:
Taken just now








This is a couple of days ago 









I must be doing some thing right


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