# What is the appeal in keeping dangerous animals?



## Magnum0 (Apr 10, 2008)

This isnt a dig at all, just wanted some opinions.

I cant imagine keeping snakes that endanger your life. I think it would feel very tense to even be near an open viv of a venomous snake. Also, i find a large appeal in handling snakes but this wouldnt be possible if it could kill you.
Why do you venomous owners keep them?


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## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

I have wondered the exact same thing for ages but have been to worried to ask it. IMO i like animals you can handle not display animals. Anyway, bet there are probably some decent reasons.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I think you just answered your own question there, in a way. It's just an enjoyment of watching an interesting animal on display rather than handling it! You don't handle a tropical fish and yet how many people have aquaria in their homes?

I think the desire to keep these snakes just comes from a strong appreciation of the animals' beauty and/or interesting behaviour on it's own terms, without having the need to handle it.

Personally, I think the responsible keeping of "hot" snakes does not include "being near an open viv" more than you have to be! That is, for maintenance or feeding purposes ONLY. I've seen too many videos on YouTube of people letting their Gaboon Vipers out for a stroll in the living room, etc.

Ideally, you should rarely if ever have to come into contact with your venomous snake. It is through the use of trap-boxes and dividers that section off the part of the vivarium inhabited by the snake that one should go about the daily business of menial tasks such as replacing substrate, clearing shed skin and cleaning the water bowl, etc.

Really, you see so many handlers "wrangling" their cobra/mamba etc. for the camera. I'm sure they know what they are doing but the problem is that they set an example for others watching and mislead them into believing that this is how handling a venomous snake ought to be done in the home. In reality the process can be so much simpler with just basic precautions.

OK, there are going to be times when interacting with your animal will be unavoidable, such as when there are health-related issues, or a problem feeder etc. and as a keeper one must be prepared for that (and hopefully be reasonably confident about doing so) but I believe that the serious keeper of venomous snakes does not NEED to be in a position of danger 95% of the time. It's just simple, basic care practices that keep the keeper where he/she is meant to be - safe and sound and out of harm's way.

As for the other 5%, that obviously is the risk in keeping hots! It is the "sod's law" that something unexpected can always happen and it is the reason why you always have to keep your wits about you. And, dare I say it, it might even be part of the appeal in having these snakes, a slight zest of danger added to the hobby.

By bringing such an animal into your home you have made that risk, however small, part of your daily life. Obviously to those that do keep "hots" it is a risk that is worth the rewards!


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## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

I do not keep any venomous myself, but I understand that all animals are interesting in their own way, including venomous creatures.

I think the important things are commitment, an understanding of what is involved (including the costs of safe housing and where applicable a licence) and a responsible attitude. But then I think that applies to keeping all animals! Sometimes I think some people should have a licence to even have kids, let alone keep animals. :lol2:


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Why do people have Big ass Constrictors...?.....they are just as dangerous...

Why do people keep snakes....?....passion and love for the animal...?


In my oppinion, if you feel the same way like i do, and your passionate about somthing, then putting your life on the line is worth it.....


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i dont have hots but i can fully understand hy peole keep them. i would be to scared myself but if it is your thing why not?.....

i keep frogs and toads amoungst other things, and they are not venamous atall, but are still only a visual pet that IMO is fun to watch....

if you have a soft spot for any animal then keeping it will be a joy for you personally, despite what other people think....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I keep hots, because for a long time it had been a dream, as soon as I knew you could keep them here, I had my heart set on it, everytime I go into the hot room I feel privaliged to be able to go and see these amazing animals, I can remember the first time I went to see any hots I walked intp the room, and was buzzing, then I knew that it was something acheivable


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Declan123 said:


> Why do people have Big ass Constrictors...?.....they are just as dangerous...


If a python bites you can fight it off, if a hot bites you your well.....screwed.

Although i don't keep any "hots" i do keep venomous spiders, granted its not in the same league but i still have no intention of being envenomated. But trust me watching them is sometimes as better as handling them. Personally id love a venemoid cobra, but still its not something you can handle, that and a caiman.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

yeah but if a 20ft python wraps itself around you, then you will be lucky to get out.


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

SiUK said:


> yeah but if a 20ft python wraps itself around you, then you will be lucky to get out.


Yeh your rightly buggered then. :lol2:


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## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm not touching this one. 

If we have to explain it you wouldn't understand.: victory:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Hots and Why*



Eric said:


> I'm not touching this one.
> 
> If we have to explain it you wouldn't understand.: victory:


I could ask a similar question on say..Royal Pythons..as I dont personally understand the fuss but each to his own.

Having been asked by my DWA enforcement officer why I keep something I cannot handle I put this to him............can tropical fish keepers handle their prize animals???????????

Enough said??????


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> I could ask a similar question on say..Royal Pythons..as I dont personally understand the fuss but each to his own.
> 
> Having been asked by my DWA enforcement officer why I keep something I cannot handle I put this to him............can tropical fish keepers handle their prize animals???????????
> 
> Enough said??????





Eric said:


> I'm not touching this one.
> 
> If we have to explain it you wouldn't understand.: victory:


 My dad had it explained to him today by Pete Blake.....(He started his mentoring in hots)
He now understands ...:lol2:
He said it's like trying to compare keeping a Budgies and keeping hawks...They look similar but are totally different animals. Both are cool but one requires a different level of commitment....If you really want to know the answer ask Pete Blake if you can go along to one of his seminars


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## Magnum0 (Apr 10, 2008)

I understand that they are something to go on display, i nearly considered getting an emerald tree boa.
But its more about the risk of death of keeping the animals. I know that if the keeper is experienced then the chances of being bitten are low, but it happens to the best out there.
Gaboon vipers are one of my favourite snakes, i think they look amazing but i would never keep one and potentially endanger my own or others lives.

Just opinions here, no arguments


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

everything in life, endangers your life, just breathing does to an extent, sports like for example, skating, rock climbing, mountain bike, parachuting they are all dangerous but people do them, ita about minimising the risks.


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## zukomonitor (Nov 11, 2007)

SiUK said:


> everything in life, endangers your life, just breathing does to an extent, sports like for example, skating, rock climbing, mountain bike, parachuting they are all dangerous but people do them, ita about minimising the risks.


well said,

for the blokes out there (and women) who like driving fast, pushing yourself and your machine to the limits, it answers its own question

to the op i think its a daft question tbh.

if you like to do something - take it to its limits, enjoy it and dont be stupid, simple

as above there is risk in everything, why not make it enjoyable yet challenging. just be aware of the risks

i personally wouldnt jump out of a plane at x thousand ft because if it goes wrong you have no chance lol, but if its allready on the ground you can go to hospital

enough said


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## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

I think that sums it up - "don't be stupid".

I don't mind what animals, even potentially dangerous ones, people keep as long as they have knowledge, commitment and the right attitude. What annoys me and makes me slap my forehead in fury is people who just want to show off or make themselves look big. It applies equally to the irresponsible owners of some dogs and irresponsible drivers of some vehicles!


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

How do you define a dangerous animal.... 20 people died last year because of horses....0 from snakes ....


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## zukomonitor (Nov 11, 2007)

Cyberlizard said:


> I think that sums it up - "don't be stupid".
> 
> I don't mind what animals, even potentially dangerous ones, people keep as long as they have knowledge, commitment and the right attitude. What annoys me and makes me slap my forehead in fury is people who just want to show off or make themselves look big. It applies equally to the irresponsible owners of some dogs and irresponsible drivers of some vehicles!


Very true, well said


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

whats a hot ?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

crazyg said:


> whats a hot ?


a venomous snake


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

and thats what its called a hot is that an abrieviation ?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

na not an abbriveation just hot = dangerous


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## crazyg (Feb 3, 2008)

yeah i just googled it bought me back to a post on here


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

Eric said:


> I'm not touching this one.
> 
> If we have to explain it you wouldn't understand.: victory:


I'm with you on this mate.


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## Incubuss (Dec 19, 2006)

We call any animal that is medically significant a 'hot'.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

How can u explain to someone else who doesent share that passion why they do it. Any passion is by the very nature not a logical thing, other people have passions which i fail to understand, ie mountaineering, caving, all sorts really, there not my passions, 

Venomous snakes both interest me in habit and in how and why they behave, I love the species diversity in which you see within a locality. I love the challenge of trying to understand how they respond within the wild enviroment as well as captivity. For me they are an extremely misunderstood group of animals, who have a an important part of the eco systems, as our understanding of them increase so does our understanding of the eco systems they belong to. The fact they are dangerous is a risk I am willing to take. For me nothing is without danger, outside the shop is a busy road in which you are taking life and limb crossing. As it has been pointed out many other animals cause fatalities every year yet these people who choose to keep these animals a know the risks and b choose to do so anyway, for it is something they enjoy and love, what better reason is there.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

leptophis said:


> How can u explain to someone else who doesent share that passion why they do it. Any passion is by the very nature not a logical thing, other people have passions which i fail to understand, ie mountaineering, caving, all sorts really, there not my passions,
> 
> Venomous snakes both interest me in habit and in how and why they behave, I love the species diversity in which you see within a locality. I love the challenge of trying to understand how they respond within the wild enviroment as well as captivity. For me they are an extremely misunderstood group of animals, who have a an important part of the eco systems, as our understanding of them increase so does our understanding of the eco systems they belong to. The fact they are dangerous is a risk I am willing to take. For me nothing is without danger, outside the shop is a busy road in which you are taking life and limb crossing. As it has been pointed out many other animals cause fatalities every year yet these people who choose to keep these animals a know the risks and b choose to do so anyway, for it is something they enjoy and love, what better reason is there.


good answer


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

leptophis said:


> How can u explain to someone else who doesent share that passion why they do it. Any passion is by the very nature not a logical thing, other people have passions which i fail to understand, ie mountaineering, caving, all sorts really, there not my passions,
> 
> Venomous snakes both interest me in habit and in how and why they behave, I love the species diversity in which you see within a locality. I love the challenge of trying to understand how they respond within the wild enviroment as well as captivity. For me they are an extremely misunderstood group of animals, who have a an important part of the eco systems, as our understanding of them increase so does our understanding of the eco systems they belong to. The fact they are dangerous is a risk I am willing to take. For me nothing is without danger, outside the shop is a busy road in which you are taking life and limb crossing. As it has been pointed out many other animals cause fatalities every year yet these people who choose to keep these animals a know the risks and b choose to do so anyway, for it is something they enjoy and love, what better reason is there.


i have to agree with pete. it is difficult to explain to someone why you love a certain thing. i love to run 200 and 400 metres but most people on here wouldn't understand why i do it when they could see the awful training i have to do.
in regards to my own interest in hots and why i want to do it. the appeal for me is that i believe that the most inpressive snake lie within the venomous snake species, black mambas, king cobras and bushmasters, nothing really compares to me!
if i'm honest too, the danger of it is a part of the appeal, the adrenaline rush is unparelelled when you reach down to take a gaboon behind the head. 
the skill and discipline it takes to keep them properly are a big part of it for me too and i am very keen to take my reptile knowledge and experience onto the next level


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## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

I think it would be a bad day for humanity if those with a "nanny mentality" took all the risk out of our lives - no hanggliding, no dangerous animals, no racing even at track days, etc etc. 

I think the criterion is not whether there is a risk to oneself but to other people. I fully support the right of a person to race their car on the track at Brands Hatch but if they do it down the High Street I hope they get busted!

Similarly I don't see anything in wrong in principle with keeping venomous animals, particularly as most of them by nature are cold-blooded and largely disinterested in people. On the other hand the risk to others must be absolutely minimised.

The bottom line is also that one can never totally eliminate a risk from life anyway. As someone pointed out, traffic can be a killer - not necessarily through your fault. So can gas, electricity and natural phenomena such as weather.

Sorry, was that a rant? :lol2:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

*risk*

look at risk..........

whats the probabilty of being fatally bitten by a "hot" against being killed in a Car Wreck or crossing the road or killed by a terrorist bomb and so on.......................................


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

A rather flippant (but nonetheless pertinent) answer to the previous post:

The probability in being bitten by a "hot" snake in comparison to being run over or blown up _rises by an order of magnitude_ when you bring said "hot" snake into your home.

I find all this talk of "more people die from a bee sting/ dog attack/ falling star etc. etc. than from snakebite" rather disconcerting, if not downright dangerous. So in essence what you are saying is that because you haven't been struck by lightning or run over today you are not going to get bitten by your venomous snake?

*No*. That is a ridiculous stance to take. Okay, the risk of being bitten by your venomous reptile may be small (provided you are doing things the right way!) _but the risk is always there_.

It is those who underestimate or worse forget that risk and take their animal for granted that are the ones to get bitten. Speak to any venomous keeper who has ever taken a bite and probably the first thing he/she will tell you was that it was their own fault, that they weren't concentrating at that moment and...
:bash:

Do not forget this, it happens to everybody, even (and perhaps most of all) to the experts who have to deal with hundreds of these snakes on a daily basis. Ever hear of James Bear? An expert venomous keeper, he kept and bred more venomous than most will ever have the pleasure of doing. He was bitten three times during his career, the last by a Rock Rattlesnake. Tragically, his third bite was his last and he died in January this year aged 37.

I would bet that he (or his family) would not be interested in how unlikely you are to die from a venomous snake bite compared to dying in a car crash. He was not the first to be killed by a captive venomous snake, and I doubt he will be the last.

I agree with Cyberlizard that one must also be alert to the actions of members of the general public. They may even be smaller still than the risks posed to yourself, as they will likely not be feeding/ maintaining the dangerous animal(s) in question. But all it takes is one ignorant idiot to decide to unlock a door, or one snake escaped from an ill-equipped room.

If you really aren't concerned about your own health and safety, that is none of my concern. But is it really a "nanny mentality" to be aware (and to help make others aware) that there is a risk involved in this hobby, however small, both to yourself and to others...? Don't get me wrong, I love venomous reptiles and would not want to see anybody get hurt. Nor would I like to see the freedom to keep venomous snakes taken away because the untimely death of one individual made the beaurocrats decide to impose further restrctions/bans.

I don't mean to rant, and I am sure (and would hope) that if you have taken the time and effort to acquire a DWA licence then you are fully competent and know what you are doing... but I see it as irresponsible to downplay the risks (and yes, there *are* risks associated with the keeping of venomous snakes) to others who might be more impressionable.

It is one thing to defend this hobby from those who would seek to deny us the freedom of pursuing it. It is another thing entirely to insist that there aren't any risks involved at all...

Just my "two-cents worth"
:whistling2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

it cant really be compared with driving, if as many people kept hots as drove cars there would be a whole lot more accidents and deaths.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

I dont think anyone has said there is no risk, the point being there is risk with everything, Nobody under plays the risk involved, and most on here try to hit people over the head with the risk, bu the question was raised why we do it, ie, they couldnt understand why we do it with the risk, people have been just making the point thats its hard to do anything with no risk, not that traffic is more or less dangerous, just that there is risk, a bite is something which i wouldnt want anyone to go through, but in this case i dont think people have been flippent, just talking about why there a passion


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I saw red... :blush:

Never take a venomous snake for granted, that's all I'm trying to say (in my own inimicably long-winded style...).

Statistics are just that - statistics... until you end up as one!

Also, I think I was partly mixing up this thread with the "Too Many People...?" one. Well, they've both got a lot of posts!

I certainly don't want to cause offence, I just see it as an important point to get across (again and again if needs be). 
: victory:


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## Sprocket (Apr 21, 2008)

I respect anyone who keeps a venomous snake with the potential to endanger life, i myself would not do so as i would feel incredibly guilty if it was to inadvertantly escape or bite someone that i know (you know what children are like, dont touch etc), these are my reasons for not keeping one.

I would not say to anyone that you cannot do this or that, this country has enough of that without trying to inflict my opinion on everyone else.

I can however understand the appeal of having a fascination and deadly animal there to observe and understand. There is a beauty with all these creatures and people will either know what this feels like or not !


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## Cyberlizard (Apr 1, 2008)

Re SiUK's point, there probably would statistically be more accidents if the number of people keeping venomous were equivalent to cat and dog owners, etc. On the other hand I think most if not all of those would be to the keepers themselves. With irresponsible car drivers I suspect a higher proportion of the victims are other people (often the passenger or a third party).


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

Sprocket said:


> I respect anyone who keeps a venomous snake with the potential to endanger life, i myself would not do so as i would feel incredibly guilty if it was to inadvertantly escape or bite someone that i know (you know what children are like, dont touch etc), these are my reasons for not keeping one.
> 
> I would not say to anyone that you cannot do this or that, this country has enough of that without trying to inflict my opinion on everyone else.
> 
> I can however understand the appeal of having a fascination and deadly animal there to observe and understand. There is a beauty with all these creatures and people will either know what this feels like or not !


 I have never had a snake escape...I have kept snakes for 30 yrs....Snakes only escape if you are not up to speed......
'HOT' keepers are very anal with their keeping (I mean that with the utmost respect).....If more people learned how to keep 'HOTS' we would get rid of the 'my snake escaped' threads...:whistling2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

snakewispera snr said:


> I have never had a snake escape...I have kept snakes for 30 yrs....Snakes only escape if you are not up to speed......
> 'HOT' keepers are very anal with their keeping (I mean that with the utmost respect).....If more people learned how to keep 'HOTS' we would get rid of the 'my snake escaped' threads...:whistling2:


 
the thing about it though is you darnt leave any chance of escape, I check and double check locks on vivs, the thought of an escape is not a good one, but I dont see how it could happen to me, I have a sign on the back of the door, to remind me to check again, just in case, when im on my way out. And in the unlikely chance of one getting from a viv the room is 100% sealed as well.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

SiUK said:


> the thing about it though is you darnt leave any chance of escape, I check and double check locks on vivs, the thought of an escape is not a good one, but I dont see how it could happen to me, I have a sign on the back of the door, to remind me to check again, just in case, when im on my way out. And in the unlikely chance of one getting from a viv the room is 100% sealed as well.


 Like I said...'Anal'....And I really do mean that with the utmost respect for the attention to detail 'HOTS' require.
I'm just learning how to get up to speed on this subject. I thought I had all the bases covered...I was wrong...Mentoring shows you things you never thought of...Experience counts for everything....


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

you have to be anal about it I recon, if you wernt then mistakes could happen, when I work before I start, I think about my golden rules then I run through in my mind what im going to do, and if something goes wrong what to do then, so if a snake slips from the hook or something, I can quickly gather my thoughts and sort it without worrying. When working working I need to be perfectly calm.


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## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

I'm anal about my non venomous snakes!

I am fascinated by venomous snakes, but I don't have the experience to consider keeping one. I fully believe that people should be allowed to keep them if they choose to do so though.

I also think you should have to get a licence to keep any kind of animal. It would get rid of a lot of issues with neglected and badly kept animals.


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## Morbid (Dec 11, 2006)

I really wish that all of my venomous snakes was non-venomous, so that I could hold them with my bare hands. I like vipers / adders, and am keeping some because I really like the way they look and their behaviours.
Nothing would please me more then if they was all non-venomous.


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