# Venomous herp trading



## nephurus (Jul 7, 2006)

Just a little poll.

In the actual herpetoculture trading we can see more and more people who buys venomous herps like giant spiders,venomous snakes, poisons arrow frogs.And many of this animals are often bought by irresponsible guys.Some of this guys are sometimes in the total illegality because they doesn't have safe setups or more simply they totally inept for coping with this animals.

In your opinions:
Should venomous herps trading must be banned?
Or do you think that there is an alternative solution to this great issue in herps keeping domain


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

No venomous trading should not be banned, it wouldnt stop even if it was, it would just punish those who already keep hots legally.
The new DWA alterations are set to include a clause about sellers having to see a DWA license before selling venomous or face being prosecuted. I believe this will improve the situation somewhat.

Other than that people just have to be vigilant about reporting those who keeps hots without a license I dont think much more should be done.
Can I ask if you have seen hots being kept illegally yourself? I have never found it to be a problem in the UK in all honesty.


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## captaincaveman (Nov 6, 2006)

poison arrow frogs are not the same as venomous, no need for dwa licence etc as the toxins come from the wild diets(from what i understand) and there is no danger or death


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

Actually now Ive re-read the thread.. are you from the UK nephurus? :?


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## nephurus (Jul 7, 2006)

no i'm from France


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

Ah I thought you might be from across the channel :lol: Well I have said my piece so I will leave you in peace.


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't think it should be banned, just more controlled.

As long as people have a license to keep them, that should be enough.

Trouble is when dealers turn a blind eye, and sell them to anyone just for the cash.

As in most businesses, you will get good people and bad people.

Moreover, banning fire arms and drugs, didn't make them diminish in the hands of people who want to have them, so the same would probably happen with venomous snakes, etc.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I personally think that the trade in venemous reptiles should be embraced and more openly accepted.
The more in public view it is the better we will be able to control it.
Yes, there are people who keep venemous illegally but we are talking about a minority and in some cases i can understand why (ie the licenscing farce) but i do NOT agree with it in anyway.

As the hobby grows more and more people will go into venemous snakes. In my opinion this is something we need to sort out and fast. Certain species like the mangrove (B.dendrophila) are on the schedule and i know people get a DWA license just to keep this one species, so what happens when someone has the license for this species and then gets something truly dangerous but isn't really able to keep the species properly with minimum risk?

For me the answer is to have a rethink on the DWA completely, assigning different species to different categories so if you have an animal in cat A then you have to upgrade your license for a cat B and so on. This would mean something like a King cobra would be on the top level, well away from those who want to keep a mangrove. Also it should be a legal requirement for buyers to have a DWAL, as it stands now as a private individual i can sell to anyone i want without legally needing to see the license (businesses are different).

I have firm views on how i would like to see the whole hobby go, i just don't know how it would get implemented or how deep i would go. One thought would be to make ALL reptiles accountable, just on different levels so as mentioned before something like a King cobra is on the top level with something like a corn on the bottom. Maybe have some form of time restriction on the licensing so you have only have certain species when you have so much experience? It could get very deep and confusing but would IMO help clarify in the long run.


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Well I'm just throwing ideas to make the license harder to get and prevent cowboys from getting hold of them.

Maybe it should be a requirement for a person to keep venomous snakes that they should have a degree in biology, herpetology or veterinary. It's very likely that people who deeply studied about these animals, will be responsible keepers.

Judging by the spelling of most members of this forum, I can assure you it would put off most of the people. By the looks of it most couldn't be bothered to attend a school let alone an Uni


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

What about those (like myself) who have none qualifications worth anything above the GCSE level but are more than capable of keeping venemous?

The problem with basing it against paper quals is that reptile keeping isn't a paper exercise, it is very much a physical thing.

Not an easy subject is it!!


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Well mate, you might not have a qualification yet, but there are several universities nowadays who give herp related courses, so you could take one.

Of course, even among people who do take a biology or a herp course, only a minority would ever consider keeping venomous snakes, but at least those who had the patience and determination to attend a course and study properly, are normally people who can be trusted.

In your case, if you acquired your knowledge through reading, keeping and breeding several different species over the years, and you can prove that by preparing a good essay about your experience, that could be counted as a qualification.

Still, I think people who want to keep venomous snakes, they should take a relevant course which would prepare them thoroughly to any eventuality, rather than just relying on the knowledge they already have.

I keep snakes for a few years now, and I still learn on a daily basis with mine. Even people like Steve Irwin, etc, were in a constant learning process I believe.

So even if you think you're the dog's bollocks when it comes to snakes, maybe if you took a course, you'd find out it was very benefitial to you, specially if you were willing to keep venomous snakes which is a much more serious business.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

That makes sense, i was thrown off by the whole degree thing.

I personally would be happy to take a course to have the license but a degree or similar is too much for me. Especially when you consider even with this sort of qualification they only do one short module on reptiles in the entire course. I have no interest in fish or mammals so the vast majority would be pointless for me.

A short (couple of weeks) course based on physical, hands on education that is to be backed up by registered time with an experienced mentor would IMO be a good way to do it.


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## beestingbutterfly (Oct 1, 2006)

do any of u guys actually have a venom liscence?
its something i was thinkin of lookin into.. any 1 no of any courses??


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I know Captain Caveman has a license, so you could send him a pm and get some advice.

I remember him saying one of the things that helped him getting the license was the fact he lived in the country side, and if he lived 3 miles down the road towards the village, the council would have probably refused the license to him.

The easiest ways to find out about courses is google. You can search for herpetology courses in the UK, and see if there is any one near you. I know there is an Uni close to where I live, and another one near Birmingham, but not sure if they teach about venomous snakes as well.

One way or another, you may need to plan a relocation if you are to take a course, because not often you find them close to your home.


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## beestingbutterfly (Oct 1, 2006)

i can't pm him... i told him he was fit in the general chat forum!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

i don't mind travelling :lol: is any one else wanting to go on a venom course??? how about u dex?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

As long you don't chat me up, I might be up for it :lol: 

Maybe you could go spend some time at Captain's cave, and I'm sure he would be willing to help you out  

If I'm not wrong, he said he was not gonna keep venomous snakes, but he wanted the license to get a cayman :roll:


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## beestingbutterfly (Oct 1, 2006)

lol cool... i might be able to refrain from chattin u up!! :wink: 
... Although i do have that reputation!! lol


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## beestingbutterfly (Oct 1, 2006)

:flrt: :naughty:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I don't know if it helps, or if it is appropriate putting it on this topic BUT as of next year "we" will be offering a venemous handling course. By "we" i mean the company, so, if you want to know more by all means contact me and i'll pass you on to the person in charge of the course.


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

That's great, I think you already have a student, and by the looks of it she's quite bubbly  

You live too far from me, but I remember when you first joined the forum and I was always curious to have a look at your herps in person :wink:


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## beestingbutterfly (Oct 1, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 


Yeah you've got 2 new students!! me and DEX!!! :lol: 
sign us up!!


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## TBUK (Feb 25, 2005)

Just found this topic very intresting read. I have a bit of an interest in venomous snakes and was just wondering what you would be doing in your DWA course? 
How long is the course? and what would we learn? would the people on the course be handling the snakes?


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Hi Jason,

I'll email you either tomorrow or monday, see if you reply this time.

Cheers
Dan

P.S.



> I have a bit of an interest in venomous snakes


Just a bit of an interest?? :lol: :lol:


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

TBUK said:


> was just wondering what you would be doing in your DWA course? How long is the course? and what would we learn? would the people on the course be handling the snakes?


That's my suggestion for the course:

*First Day:* we will learn how to free handle a gaboon viper (everyone will have a chance pull him out of the viv, handle for hour an hour and stick it back in the viv)
*Second Day:* swimming with salt water crocs (make sure you take your swimming gear and towel)
*Third Day:* in the morning we will learn how to play flute, and in the afternoon, we will do the flute trick with a king cobra, and of course kiss the cobra's forehead
*Fourth Day:* we will learn how to run in zigzag from a black mamba. Don't panick, you don't need to be faster than the snake, as long as there is someone who is slower than you in the group
*Fifth and last day:* we will get locked up with a komodo dragon for 5 hours, just to see that his bad reputation is very unfair. If we have time we will learn how to brush their teeth so that they stop dribbling 

We will get the certificates and a hatchling taipan in the post a week later


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Dexter said:


> That's my suggestion for the course:
> 
> *First Day:* we will learn how to free handle a gaboon viper (everyone will have a chance pull him out of the viv, handle for hour an hour and stick it back in the viv)
> *Second Day:* swimming with salt water crocs (make sure you take your swimming gear and towel)
> ...


OH PLEASE!!! :evil: 

Can you atleast try to take this seriously? The taipan will be on a 24hr delivery :wink: 


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

email sent to blueyonder addy


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Sorry, I was bored at 4 am. It was genuinely for a laugh, but I'd be very interested in a venomous course as well


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## TBUK (Feb 25, 2005)

reticulatus said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> I'll email you either tomorrow or monday, see if you reply this time.
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol: Well that didn't work very well thought it was to good to be true posting as a guest  
Sent you a mail back Dan but please keep me posted as I am interested in how the couse go's mate


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