# Locust - every live food has it`s own risks.



## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Just thought I`d put these pics up to show that being on the ball really does pay where reps are concerned, and that care must always be taken when any live food is used that has the potential to bite back. 

In no way do I want to scare monger against, or put ppl off using Locust, that ARE a fantastic, nutrient packed food item for a whole host of reps. The advantages of using locust far outweigh the disadvantages, though it`s important ppl use any live food as knowledgeably as possible.

Anyhow, shortish story is: thought I`d treat my breeders to a nice little nutrient boost at the start of the season in the form of locust. Being medium to large ones, they were only getting one each, obv though, where 2 leos are housed there needs to be 2 locust. So I put 2 locust into a female duos viv, one was snapped up straight away by the leo below, and the other jumped on her back trying to escape the gaping jaws of the 2nd leo. It only landed on her for a couple of seconds before being `shoo-ed` away. Nothing more was though of it, as it was quickly captured by the other leo. Checked all the leos over again after their little treat, and saw absolutely nothing untoward with any of them - that was last thing at night. All fed, all accounted for and everything in the garden was rosy.

I did the usual check first thing in the morning, and was staggered to find this lovely leo, with 2 very clear, easily visable puncture marks above her hind hip (easily seen on pic below) the leo that the locust landed on for a matter of seconds. Oddly though, they simply weren`t there - or least weren`t visable the night before, nor had the leo shown any signs of stress, and didn`t even flinch to indicate it`d been bitten. As you can see, her back leg was swollen badly, massive bruising and a lump on her underside just below the hip. 
Thankully, I managed to get her in to see a superb rep vet within 20 mins, and within 25 mins she`d been administered anti-inflammatories and was put on a course of anti-biotics. The vet said it was 100% down to a locust bite, and though locust in themselves aren`t poisonous nor carry any particularly bacteria, the simple bite wound itself and the `regular` bacteria found with any bite had led to this reaction, and it becoming infected OVERNIGHT!!!

Luckily, she`s now on the mend, the swelling has gone down and the bruising starting to colour down - there`ll be no lasting damage as it was caught quickly. The normal advice given, is that it`s perfectly safe to leave locust in a viv overnight with leos, as they don`t bite or attack them - something I`ve just found out to be completely naive where anything fighting for it`s life is concerned (and I include my own naivety in that too). This is the first time I`ve seen anything like it in over a decade keeping leos, and whilst it won`t stop me using them (their benefits massively outweigh the risks), I will certainly be even MORE careful when feeding them - and cruel as it may sound, no locust will be going in the viv with their jumping legs capable of jumping!!! :whistling2:

Just hoping that this thread will help to show that it always pays to as careful as possible when dealing with any live food that has the potential to bite a reptile back - it`s natural and pretty obv when they`re acting in self defence. Hoping too, that it will help show that even a quick check over of reps a couple of times a day - just for the sake of a check over - never goes amiss either. Dread to think how bad it may have got if it wasn`t spotted straight away.


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

funky1 said:


> Just thought I`d put these pics up to show that being on the ball really does pay where reps are concerned, and that care must always be taken when any live food is used that has the potential to bite back.
> 
> In no way do I want to scare monger against, or put ppl off using Locust, that ARE a fantastic, nutrient packed food item for a whole host of reps. The advantages of using locust far outweigh the disadvantages, though it`s important ppl use any live food as knowledgeably as possible.
> 
> ...


Jeeez mukka - would never have thought that could happen !
Good heads up....


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## sumpy (Dec 1, 2008)

WoW:gasp: I'v had locust's for a long time as I thought they we're non nippers, that looks pretty nasty and if unchecked could have been alot worse. Thanks for sharing that info, I'm going to keep a better eye on mine for the time being.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

God thats awful. I feed locust all the time. Will be much more careful now. Thank you - hope she will be ok


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Big Red One said:


> Jeeez mukka - would never have thought that could happen !
> Good heads up....


Same here mate - never come across it on a personal level before, and it happened with me being careful as well! Totally shocked at the time.



sumpy said:


> WoW:gasp: I'v had locust's for a long time as I thought they we're non nippers, that looks pretty nasty and if unchecked could have been alot worse. Thanks for sharing that info, I'm going to keep a better eye on mine for the time being.


I think the vet was a bit taken back at the speed and severity of it - we weren`t allowed out the building until he`d given her a dose of the anti--inflammatories himself, literally said it wouldn`t wait until we got home! (great sign of a good vet :notworthy.


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## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

guessing a locust couldnt hurt a beardie though? beardies are big and tuff.


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## Cooper86 (Feb 6, 2010)

this thread should be pointed out to those who sit at the computer asking for advice when they should clearly be speaking to a vet...well caught!!:2thumb:


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

jools said:


> God thats awful. I feed locust all the time. Will be much more careful now. Thank you - hope she will be ok


Cheers - she`s acting and moving perfectly well, and the swellings going down now too which was a worry. Been a bit of an eye opener tbh.


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Cooper86 said:


> this thread should be pointed out to those who sit at the computer asking for advice when they should clearly be speaking to a vet...well caught!!:2thumb:


Thanks, most ppl would have done the same I`m sure - esp if they`d seen what it like BEFORE she was given the medicines!


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## 53bird (Sep 30, 2009)

thanks for showing us that funky1, i will be very carefull in the future. i feed locusts twice a week to my lot, i have never been bitin by one yet but by the looks of those marks i dont wont to be :gasp: hope shes ok : victory:


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## Michelle G (Feb 27, 2008)

Oh god thats awful...poor girl.
3 of my leos only ever get locusts because they wont touch mealies. Hope my roach colony hurries up and gets on with it so I dont have to use them as much. x


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## Tiger Lily (Dec 28, 2009)

Awww that makes me sad :sad: I was expecting to see just the two puncture holes, i didnt expect to see bruising. Poor little thing. Definitely something to remember for future reference. Hope he/she makes a speedy recovery.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

just goes to show that any insect can bite doesn't it ~ glad to hear she's on the mend now hun : victory:
as a matter of interest how big were the hoppers? I only get the small mediums for my lot ~ tried breeding some of the big buggers before and got bitten myself ... nasty herbets


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Damn man, I would have replied earlier but was checking our tubs with the locusts left in :whistling2:

Full credit to you though mate, it was caught early so all good : victory:


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## croc&chewy (Sep 21, 2009)

No way, quite surprising really since people say they are harmless.. just shows they aren't!

Poor girl, glad to hear she is on the mend though xx


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

aaaawwww poor wee fella!

his leg even went blue!


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

SleepyD said:


> just goes to show that any insect can bite doesn't it ~ glad to hear she's on the mend now hun : victory:
> as a matter of interest how big were the hoppers? I only get the small mediums for my lot ~ tried breeding some of the big buggers before and got bitten myself ... nasty herbets


They were what they technically class as `large` on a few sites or medium on another - depends which site, but in reality they aren`t that big! They`d be prob around 40mm - 45ish at a push so just about only half the size of a 80mm + winged adult :gasp: 



MrMike said:


> Damn man, I would have replied earlier but was checking our tubs with the locusts left in :whistling2:
> 
> Full credit to you though mate, it was caught early so all good : victory:


Haha - good to know it`s had an effect! I think the best safe guard may be to just make sure that any locust in with leos has had a gentle squeeze where it`s joint springs are - won`t stop them walking about and encouraging a predator, but should stop them jumping and landing on anything.


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## Christmas (Dec 15, 2009)

sticky?


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## PMGeckos (Sep 24, 2009)

Hope she makes a speedy recovery mate! Seems like a right nasty little bite. I normally just feed em one at a time, keeping an eye on em eating the locusts, mainly due to me being fascinated by their predatory instincts! Now I have a more sensitive cause to make sure the buggars are eaten.

May I ask what rep vet you used? Sounds perfect and you are only 20 mins away from me so it will be worth the extra time in the car.


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## Alaina (Nov 18, 2009)

Christmas said:


> sticky?



What Christmas Said.

Definately something people should look out for. 

x


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

OMG that looks awful, the poor Leo.

How many of us, will only leave a cricket in for a few mins, but happily leave hoppers in till they are munched. I suppose we dont really think of them as being potentially dangerous as crix, and dont really think of the "locust doesnt want to be eaten by the Leo" after you've had em a while.
The really big hoppers scare the crap outta me, so the cat usually has some fun with them.

I know I am going to be a lot more careful with locusts from now on, hope your little one makes a full recovery.

think Dubias maybe coming our way sooner rather than later


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

Ouch! I didn't know a locust could do that! Will take more care, thanks!


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## yonark (May 23, 2007)

i don't mean to sound awful and i am glad she is on the mend but this is great THANK YOU.
i was putting my hand in to a bag to grab a couple of med-larg loctus one day and one of the little buggers gave me a bloody sore nip, when i told the rep shop guy this he laughed and said "they don't bite"
i knew i was right. got all my marbles after all well most of them


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Im glad you managed to spot the injury so quickly Tony, it looks a very nasty bite. I dread to think what the consequences would have been if she had been left for a long period before it was spotted. It shows what a diligent keeper you are and by the sounds of it you have a fantastic rep vet. I hope she makes a swift and full recovery for you.

Ive seen it posted a couple of times in the past about people going away for a few days chucking a few locusts into the viv to keep the geckos fed / amused while they are away. Rather a dangerous practice that this thread will hopefully discourage.

I have felt the nip of a large locust and they do have strong jaws. If you watch how they munch through cabbage leaves you can see that they have evil jaws designed to shred anything they choose to eat. I always pull the jumping legs off locusts before they go to the geckos, I wont risk the barbs injuring the leos mouths. It also stops them jumping onto the leos backs. I know a breeder who had just received a juvenile giant leo. She gave it a locust as a welcome to your new home treat. The darn thing jumped on the geckos tail and presumably bit it. The gecko instantly dropped its tail. Not good for the leo and really messed things up working out weights in regard to the giant status.

I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned Beardies being a lot tougher and not so much at risk. I would agree in part with that. However our Beardie is a nutcase and sits quite calmly with a big locust on his head. However when he had one clinging to the side of his face the other day he got into a right panic. Seeing the wound to Funkys leo I dread to think what would have happened if the locust bit the Beardies eye. All feeder insects have a natural defence mechanism. Often they dont get a chance or have the abilty to use it effectively against the rep they are being fed to. There is always the remote possibilty of one finding the weak spot and inflicting a bit of damage in its last ditch efforts to survive. 

As others have said, this would be a very useful sticky. A great looking leo by the way mate.


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## Geckogirl_88 (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh my goodness me!
When I was reading this I could only see the first pic.
I was thinking "Gosh that leo has huge legs"
Then I saw the rest of the pics!

What a shame for the poor little leo!
And all credit to you for being so diligent and acting so quickly.
I dont tend to leave any livefood in as I worry they'll escape through the ventilation holes in the RUB lids, but now i DEFINATELY wont even consider it.

I actually love watching my locusts munch through a new batch of cabbage; it's facinating to see all their little mouth parts working,
BUT OMG I cant believe how much damage that did in so little time!

I hope she mends up soon
Im off to check on my leos.
There's nothing in there to bite them, but I just feel the need to check them all over right now lol.

Sticky 
xx


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## lee young (Oct 14, 2009)

That is a bit of an eye opener, I think people advise locusts over crickets as food wise locusts are strictly vegetarian and crickets are omnivorous, but I guess theres a difference between eating/biting for food and a defensive bite.

Are you 100% sure it was the locust and not anything else? (i.e. the other gecko/other bugs) I always thought locusts could only munch things side on because of how their jaws work. If you watch them eating greens they'll always eat from the edge of the leaf, normally at a ninety degree angle to their mouth?

If it was the locust, it is a bit scary and good work in posting it on here to let everyone know!


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## maddragon29 (Oct 16, 2008)

Oh Christ. Thanks for sharing the story and i'm glad you caught the infection and that their will be no lasting effects.


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## suez (Jul 8, 2007)

:gasp: thats one hell of a bruise poor leo. as has already been said its should be made sticky and people who just throw grub in for afew days (as Mal said)should be discouraged. had this happened to a not do diligant keeper as Tony goodness knows what the outcome would be.i bet that really hurt the leo and yes hands up i have left a locust in viv to be munched and retreived after a couple of hours of not been eaten also popped a bit of green in there for it to munch, but as has been shown a second or too is all it takes.extra viggilance with hoppers for me too .


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

This was done by a locust that decided it didn't want to be eaten.


I'm suprised that was done by a locust though, that underside shot looks just like a leo's bite.


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## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

wow, from a bite? nasty!


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

lee young said:


> That is a bit of an eye opener, I think people advise locusts over crickets as food wise locusts are strictly vegetarian and crickets are omnivorous, but I guess theres a difference between eating/biting for food and a defensive bite.
> 
> Are you 100% sure it was the locust and not anything else? (i.e. the other gecko/other bugs) I always thought locusts could only munch things side on because of how their jaws work. If you watch them eating greens they'll always eat from the edge of the leaf, normally at a ninety degree angle to their mouth?
> 
> If it was the locust, it is a bit scary and good work in posting it on here to let everyone know!


 
Aye mate, it was 100% a locust bite that caused it. You can clearly see the 2 puncture wounds just above her rear hip (exactly where the locust landed) - so whilst the actual bite may be tiny, it`s the resulting infection from the bacteria on whatever part of the locusts mouth that had contact that`s caused the real damage - swelling and bruising are the leos own reaction. The vet couldn`t say whether it was the mandibles, labium, maxila or labrum that caused the actual entry wounds (actual words when questioned just how would a locust do it - `with it`s mouth, I`m a reptile vet not a bug specialist!`) though did point out that anything fighting for it`s life will use whatever it has at it`s disposal to fight back - mouth, claws, legs, wings, pinchers etc......once the skins been even slightly broken, whatever it carries on it has a chance to get inside - pretty much in the same way, as when a dog bites you, it`s not the teeth marks that you have to worry about that do the damage - it`s the potential tetanus from the saliva.

Another leo bite can easily be ruled out too (not least in the vet`s opinion) - both females get along extremely well, something I`m very careful about keeping a constant eye on due to ever changing dynamics, plus any bite that had the capacity to leave physical damage like this, would have needed to be an almighty one - and that would have left at least some physical clues like scuff marks, teeth marks and prob even a mouth outline. Any leo that takes a real grip and hangs on, will shake their head from side to side too - in exactly the same manner as when they`re eating something that needs to be killed, which in itself, leaves a real flesh wound. The ones on here who`ve had a nip from off a leo that REALLY meant it, will be able to testify that if a leo bites with intent - it will break the skin and leave a real nasty cut and mouth outline, those teeth are more than sharp! And the only other food in the viv were mealies.



* Thanks to everyone for all the nice words, support and well wishes - she`s doing absolutely fine now, walking, climbing and eating freely; really wouldn`t know anything had happened to her if you couldn`t still see the reduced swelling etc. If anything, I`m just glad if it`s made anyone - myself included - just a little bit more aware of the dangers of things that sometimes we`re guilty of taking for granted - and it`s so easy to reduce the risks by simply removing the locust`s jumping capability. Again, thanks for all the comments :2thumb: *


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## Geckogirl_88 (Apr 24, 2009)

Just fed my leos their weekly treat of locusts.
Suffice to say I didnt even let them out of the tongs lol
xx


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## fiesta599 (Jun 11, 2009)

OMG:gasp: THANKYOU so much for this thread and i agree this should be made a sticky.im so glad ur leo is on the mend,poor little thing.


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## CreepyCrumpet (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for this thread, i use Locust for all my reps (hate crickets!) i never thought of nipping as a possible risk form them but now i will be more aware when feeding! On the other side of the coin im a constant worrier so now have a new thing to panic about, thanks for that


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## emmaw (May 2, 2009)

A locust once bit my poor crestie on the bum and no-one believed me - they all said locusts were harmless. Nasty little buggers! Luckily my little boy didn't get a reaction, but you saw the poor little man flinch when it bit him!!


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## *Liil-Roo* (Oct 15, 2009)

*Does anyone know if they can hurt beardies as iv started my spike on the medium ones today & only gave him 2 so far BUT just want to be safe even though i will be giving them to his one by one... lol

Thanks
*


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## Christmas (Dec 15, 2009)

How do you make this a sticky. Does someone important need to see it?


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

fiesta599 said:


> OMG:gasp: THANKYOU so much for this thread and i agree this should be made a sticky.im so glad ur leo is on the mend,poor little thing.


No worries, and thanks for your kind words : victory:



CreepyCrumpet said:


> Thanks for this thread, i use Locust for all my reps (hate crickets!) i never thought of nipping as a possible risk form them but now i will be more aware when feeding! On the other side of the coin im a constant worrier so now have a new thing to panic about, thanks for that


Haha, sorry about that! It`s important to remember that it`s the first time I`ve ever come across a reaction like this in what must now be 13 years keeping, and breeding leos (and take into consideration all the leos in that time + all the locust used, then it makes a really rare occurence indeed!) so the last thing I`d want to do is make anyone overly worry about locust in general - but I felt it was important to help make ppl aware of what CAN happen, however low the odds. And there are things ppl can do to help minimise the risks - feed 1 locust at a time, and also take their jumping legs off (a little squeeze at the joint will stop them bouncing).




*Liil-Roo* said:


> *Does anyone know if they can hurt beardies as iv started my spike on the medium ones today & only gave him 2 so far BUT just want to be safe even though i will be giving them to his one by one... lol*
> 
> _*Thanks*_


Yes, please don`t stop using locust by any means - they are definitely a super food for leos and beardies; as long as you minimise the risks, are aware of what `could` happen and keep a close eye on your Beardie in general - then I`m 100% sure it`ll be fine :2thumb:



Christmas said:


> How do you make this a sticky. Does someone important need to see it?


I think someone would have to ask a moderator (the ones in green on the users list - home page) to make it one - and point out how many ppl have asked for it (but I didn`t say that obv!!!! :whistling2 It`s understandably very hard to get threads made into sticky`s though, as they don`t really want the discussion sections filled up with them.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

I too can confirm that locusts bite having been bitten myself numerous times.

Pleased to hear your little girl is on the mend. I guess most lizards will cop a bite and be fine but there are those that can react worse to a bite than others. Terrible thing for your leo poor love.


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

yeah, Locust have a nasty bite. 
I always watch my leos and give them all a couple of medium/small locust weekly, but have witnessed a large one jump on my beardies head and bite drawing a little blood he didn't seem to feel it but it bled all the same. They definately shouldn't be chucked in without supervision. 
Glad your little one is ok Funky:2thumb:


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Cheers Lisa


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## melmodz (Feb 20, 2010)

Cheers for that info! I've only just started using locusts and it landed on my leo last night! I will keep an eye on her to make sure she's ok.
I'll be very careful with those pesky insects!


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## titwillow (Dec 7, 2009)

I bought my first ever pot of hoppers for my FBT's today, the hoppers are very small (10mm approx) but I hope they won't get bitten too.


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## xvickyx (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the information. Crazy how something so small can cause so much damage, hope you Leo is on the mend


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