# Super Giant/Giant Leopard Gecko Breeders



## Morty (Jul 3, 2010)

I'll apologize in advance if there is already a thread about this somewhere.

I've never kept a lizard before now but I've really come to like Leopard Geckos - they're stunning! - but more specifically the Giant and Super Giant forms. 

I've been on the look out for some for sale but haven't been able to find any. So I was just wondering if anybody knew of any breeders?

Thanks in advance. : victory:


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

If they existed :whistling2:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

MrMike said:


> If they existed :whistling2:


 
They dont? ....


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

I see no evidence of a single mutation causing "Giant", especially not the Giant/Super giant codom model. I have a Leo at 115g, is he giant? No "Giant" history at all (trust me I've checked).

Some Leos are bigger than others, sure, and the "Giant" line from Mr. Tremper are definitely bigger, but simple medelian codominant to normal? I'm not convinced.

My theory?

Big leo x Big leo may give leos who are bigger than average. Simples.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

MrMike said:


> I see no evidence of a single mutation causing "Giant", especially not the Giant/Super giant codom model. I have a Leo at 115g, is he giant? No "Giant" history at all (trust me I've checked).
> 
> Some Leos are bigger than others, sure, and the "Giant" line from Mr. Tremper are definitely bigger, but simple medelian codominant to normal? I'm not convinced.
> 
> ...


 
I thought thats how they created the giant/super giant forms anyways.

Just bred the largest specimens, to create large/larger babies, and keep going until desired results and could label it as a giant or super giant.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

MrMike said:


> I see no evidence of a single mutation causing "Giant", especially not the Giant/Super giant codom model. I have a Leo at 115g, is he giant? No "Giant" history at all (trust me I've checked).
> 
> Some Leos are bigger than others, sure, and the "Giant" line from Mr. Tremper are definitely bigger, but simple medelian codominant to normal? I'm not convinced.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly. IMO "Giantism" is a line bred trait at the most, but I am very willing to be proved wrong.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Spuddy said:


> I thought thats how they created the giant/super giant forms anyways.
> 
> Just bred the largest specimens, to create large/larger babies, and keep going until desired results and could label it as a giant or super giant.


Nope, apparently it is a single mutation which acts co-dominant to normal. Rubbish I say!


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

jools said:


> My thoughts exactly. IMO "Giantism" is a line bred trait at the most, but I am very willing to be proved wrong.


Yeah, I'm all open to be proven wrong.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Nope, apparently it is a single mutation which acts co-dominant to normal. Rubbish I say!


 
Meh, I dont believe it either, its just larger specimens. Which someone has labelled as giant/super giant for marketing strategy.


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## Morty (Jul 3, 2010)

I could very well be wrong when referring to them as that. I just read that is what the larger forms were called, depending on their weight. :blush: 

As I said, I've had no interest in lizards before now. I'm more of a snake person but really like these.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Morty said:


> I could very well be wrong when referring to them as that. I just read that is what the larger forms were called, depending on their weight. :blush:
> 
> As I said, I've had no interest in lizards before now. I'm more of a snake person but really like these.


Why not just get the normal sized leos? More morphs available in "normal sized" ones.


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## Morty (Jul 3, 2010)

Spuddy said:


> Why not just get the normal sized leos? More morphs available in "normal sized" ones.


I have thought about it but they just don't appeal to me as much. 

I think that is because I seen an amazingly stunning Giant first and adored her.

Thanks to this thread though I have had a few PM's letting me know about available ones which is great. :2thumb:


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## Sarah-Jayne (Jul 4, 2007)

Morty said:


> I could very well be wrong when referring to them as that. I just read that is what the larger forms were called, depending on their weight. :blush:
> 
> As I said, I've had no interest in lizards before now. I'm more of a snake person but really like these.


weight is not what defines a giant, thats obesity lol the actual size of the gecko is very important....but I dont really know alot about giants whether they are genetic or not


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Morty said:


> I have thought about it but they just don't appeal to me as much.
> 
> I think that is because I seen an amazingly stunning Giant first and adored her.
> 
> Thanks to this thread though I have had a few PM's letting me know about available ones which is great. :2thumb:


 
Hmmm, just the same animal to me, but a different sized individual.

Anyways good luck on your search mate : victory:


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

Well no-one can deny that they exist as they have been proven out as a morph.A co-dominant morph. Im interested in a male super giant giant something as apparently you can breed any morph to it for instance a super giant raptor. Im interested in working with this morph because the females can produce more eggs simple fact and that i would like to get differnt variations or morphs. I just wish they were more common.


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

MP reptiles said:


> Im interested in working with this morph because the females can produce more eggs simple fact


generally a females egg production is more down to how old she is and how well she has been cared for ie: supplements, health etc and has very little to do with morph or size


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

MP reptiles said:


> Well no-one can deny that they exist as they have been proven out as a morph.A co-dominant morph. Im interested in a male super giant giant something as apparently you can breed any morph to it for instance a super giant raptor. Im interested in working with this morph because the females can produce more eggs simple fact and that i would like to get differnt variations or morphs. I just wish they were more common.


Proven where?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MrMike said:


> If they existed :whistling2:


Agreed, For example.



> Hatchlings measure 3 to *4 inches long*.


To go with that.



> In the summer of 1999, I hatched a huge baby from normal appearing parents - a purely spontaneous random event. This normal looking hatchling measured a staggering *4.5” in total length*.


So a Giant is base on .5 of a leo max hatching size.



> Adult females are typically 7 to 8 inches, and *males* are 8 to *10 inches*.


To go with.



> *He* is *11 1/8 inches* in total length, but his *brother*, who weighs less, is *11 3/8” long*, making him the longest leopard I have ever measured.


 
So a male max can be 10 inch,So is a exsta 1 1/8 or 1 3/8 enough to warrent a morph name.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

MrMike said:


> Proven where?


 with many breeders proving out a size difference


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MP reptiles said:


> with many breeders proving out a size difference


Ya! that it's all wrong :lol2:. There are many unimpressed Americans, Not getting the results they are said to get. 
For example getting Normal offspring from a "Super giant" to a Normal breeding. That is not how Codom works :whistling2:.


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## MP reptiles (Dec 30, 2010)

gazz said:


> Ya! that it's all wrong :lol2:. There are many unimpressed Americans, Not getting the results they are said to get.
> For example getting Normal offspring from a "Super giant" to a Normal breeding. That is not how Codom works :whistling2:.


 in uk aswell for instance glowinggeckos produces giants with added morph he produced giant sunglow.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

MrMike said:


> If they existed :whistling2:


I shall go with this... :whistling2:


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## magick (Aug 18, 2009)

I think they do exist but rather than being classed as a "giant/super giant morph" I think that they should just be recognized as unusually large leos in my opinion :lol2:


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

Whether you like it or not giant leos do exist! 
I certainly do not believe there are supergiants! just bigger ones! what would you for instance call Trempers moose and Steve sykes Godzilla, at respective sizes 130+g and over 170g you dont think they are giants? well their certainly not normal size! I actually keep and breed them and you can see a difference in growth rate and their build!
I tend to look at it like some other animals like you see in for instance dogs! Irish wolf hounds, great danes, and alike, they are the same genetic species but selectively line bred to be a lot bigger so called *Giant!* a lot of folks on here cannot go back 20 years plus and remember Leos! ( yea I know old git! well such is life)
but then you very rarely saw one over 70-80g and that would be a full grown male! and like I say we used to breed at 35-40g as females didnt get much bigger than 55-60g and that is fact! I hasten to add I do not breed at less than 55-60g now because they do get so much bigger!
people nowadays are conditioned in thinking leos grow up to much bigger to what they used to be! and that is just because of good welfare and line breeding the bigest and healthiest stock! and when you take the bigger ones and breed them to other big ones you tend to get bigger babies! its a fact of life! so *Giants* are here and here to stay!


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

it isnt a morph as such, its just line bred. 

i agree with mr.mikes quote


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

tonkaz0 said:


> I tend to look at it like some other animals like you see in for instance dogs! Irish wolf hounds, great danes, and alike, they are the same genetic species but selectively line bred to be a lot bigger so called *Giant!* a lot of folks on here cannot go back 20 years plus and remember Leos! ( yea I know old git! well such is life)


Actually they're just called a large breed of dog... giant doesn't come into it...


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

tonkaz0 said:


> Whether you like it or not giant leos do exist!
> I certainly do not believe there are supergiants! just bigger ones! what would you for instance call Trempers moose and Steve sykes Godzilla, at respective sizes 130+g and over 170g you dont think they are giants? well their certainly not normal size! I actually keep and breed them and you can see a difference in growth rate and their build!
> I tend to look at it like some other animals like you see in for instance dogs! Irish wolf hounds, great danes, and alike, they are the same genetic species but selectively line bred to be a lot bigger so called *Giant!* a lot of folks on here cannot go back 20 years plus and remember Leos! ( yea I know old git! well such is life)
> but then you very rarely saw one over 70-80g and that would be a full grown male! and like I say we used to breed at 35-40g as females didnt get much bigger than 55-60g and that is fact! I hasten to add I do not breed at less than 55-60g now because they do get so much bigger!
> people nowadays are conditioned in thinking leos grow up to much bigger to what they used to be! and that is just because of good welfare and line breeding the bigest and healthiest stock! and when you take the bigger ones and breed them to other big ones you tend to get bigger babies! its a fact of life! so *Giants* are here and here to stay!


I don't disagree with the existenc eof larger Leos, but the Giant/super Giant codom model isn't applicable.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

to be honest. this is what i believe..

there are larger leos, and some are huge compared to others. but to me, they are NOT a morph. they are just Selectively bred to produce larger offspring.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

MP reptiles said:


> in uk aswell for instance glowinggeckos produces giants with added morph he produced giant sunglow.


They may have produced a large Sunglow. Unfortunately without conclusive breeding trials I'm sticking with my gut. Giant/Super giant was an awesome peice of marketing...


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

MrMike said:


> I don't disagree with the existenc eof larger Leos, but the Giant/super Giant codom model isn't applicable.


 
No! I wasnt disbuting the genectics side of it Mike, which I do agree with! 
just saying you cannot say there isnt such a thing as a giant leo when there clearly is! and putting my findings and opinions out about the selection and the line breeding side of it! having bred quite a few! :lol2:


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

tonkaz0 said:


> No! I wasnt disbuting the genectics side of it Mike, which I do agree with!
> just saying you cannot say there isnt such a thing as a giant leo when there clearly is! and putting my findings and opinions out about the selection and the line breeding side of it! having bred quite a few! :lol2:


Ahh, it get's confusing when people call larger Leos giants. Makes me instantly think of the codom "theory".


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

Ophexis said:


> Actually they're just called a large breed of dog... giant doesn't come into it...


 
Now your being picky aint you? now would you call this a large one or a......

Giant Schnauzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was just making a point! :lol2:


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

tonkaz0 said:


> Now your being picky aint you? now would you call this a large one or a......
> 
> Giant Schnauzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I was just making a point! :lol2:


:lol2: I like to nit pick, leave me alone! 
But a Giant Schnauzer is basically just a big Schnauzer in my opinion


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

MrMike said:


> Ahh, it get's confusing when people call larger Leos giants. Makes me instantly think of the codom "theory".


 
Yea I see where your coming from 100% but like I say most leos are now a lot larger than the good old days ha ha, so a 125g+ leo is a blinking giant to me, so a 150g+ one is a monster.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MP reptiles said:


> in uk aswell for instance glowinggeckos produces giants with added morph he produced giant sunglow.


Yes but if you breed a good size leo to another leo, The trait will be inherited. All domestic leo that are availible in all differant morph, are descended from mass hybridization of the other sup-species.

For example here's a 2 week old pure (Eublepharis angramainyu)-TOP.
With a 2 week old Eclipse patternless reverse striped-BOTTOM.









Here on the right is a pure adult 1 1/2 year old (Eublepharis angramainyu). 
And on the left a 3 year old pure (Eublepharis afghanicus).









Above a "Giant", Below two pure (Eublepharis angramainyu). All the same age. Morph strain leo's have the blood of the species (Eublepharis angramainyu) in them, 
So the trait for this size is likly to pop up time to time.









Just coz it's big doesn't make it Giant, A good example of this is Royal pythons, A Royals avridge is about 3 to 4 feet, 
But they can and do get to 6 feet, When you see one of these Royals people just call them beautys not Giants.


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## AstroFenn (Dec 25, 2010)

Technically, shouldn't a "giant" of any species be Significantly larger than the normal sizes? from what I've seen/heard, there's not enough size difference between normals/"giant"/"super-giant" to constitute calling them something else..


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## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

I bred lots of leos and only ever produced normal sozed and growth rate geckos. I then got a giants sunglow male and really noticed the difference in soem babeis growth rates. I took 3 month old 'giant' babies to the shows and people were asking how much the adults were as they were 40+ grams even at 3-4 months. 

Only from personal experience I would say there is a definitive growth rate difference in some babies I haven't seen in the 3 years previous to getting a 'giant' male. I shall be breeding in theory giants this year.


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## yoyocrazy (Feb 18, 2011)

*can some one help*

what is a good super giant breeder i have been looking at ron trempars geckos and geckos ect's web site im looking for a male
just private message me im trying to decide on a few geckos


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## Manice (Jul 25, 2006)

Sorry to bring an old thread back.

*gazz*

Thank you to ask the person if you can use their pictures.

I do not remember to let you use my pictures of angramainyu next to afghanicus and giant.

I think this is not a good way of acting.

I hope you are not doing this every day because you will have problems once.


Regards


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