# Are you a New Age Political Exotics Keeper?



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Are you a New Age Political Exotics Keeper?

What l am pleased with in many ways these days is the new phase keepers are committing to.

We find more and more keepers of animals nowadays that are clued up, tuned in to not just politics and the awareness of legislation, but also to the moral implications of keeping animals.

Yesteryear held many old school keepers – and this is not to say that there are none of those now, for there are indeed droves of them around the UK. Those who refuse point blankly to accept changes in legislation and environmental issues.

More and more new keepers of animals are in fact educated to degree standard, others have specifically taken out higher education and learning programmes that deals with the husbandry of species now. More still are clued up on the political climate and environmental issues that surround this industry.

Further more, we find more keepers that in fact are pro keepers yes, but also take on board the considerations that those that oppose us and oppose strongly the keeping of exotic species in captivity look at, and this is good.

Over time, l too have become more anti in a lot of my views, as l have said before l am still very pro keeper, but l do try and constantly reiterate the importance of improved husbandry on animals as well as a greater responsibility in ownership, l have learned to focus more so on the rights of the animals we keep and maintain as well as look very seriously into the rights of keepers on a political and legislation view point.

But in the last five years of looking into the legislation movements that are out there to try and cease exotic keeping, the more l can see the importance of education and re-education of keepers.

The times where ‘this was acceptable and that was acceptable’ are gone and going and l say thank God, for they are old school practices.

I know l harp on about the code of practices that this country of keepers are awaiting – or should be – but these are the way forwards for the keeping of not just exotics but of all animals. They signal the way forwards – and should not be viewed with hostility or fear as many old school keepers do so with, but with enthusiasm, for these are the protection agents to those keepers whom are practising husbandry and responsible ownership correctly.

As keepers we must view the opinions of the anti party’s with intrigue and interest, for many of their campaigns we undoubtedly support. 

There may come a day when – may – when those views – held by each party could coincide, far fetched perhaps for today’s’ thinking – but l do not think totally impossible. If we keepers can change, then perhaps the opposition could also?

For in many respects – apart from being totally opposite, we do tend to share the same opinions and views but from different sides.

Code of practice websites for now and the future do not need to resemble something akin to Logans’ Run in styling, but they do need to be reviewed properly by web masters. For if Internet sales and the such like in fauna and flora are to achieve success then a responsibility must be undertaken.

It is that same responsibility of web masters to educate their readership and the responsibility of the readership to take on board that of the written word.

Overall as said, l am very pleased by the increasing presence of the New Age Political Exotics Keeper, are you and are you one such keeper?

R


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

I tend not to get involved in huge debates or in fights over who's way of keeping is right unless a reptile is being neglected etc.

I do my research on species before buying, just like i've been researching royals, cresteds and W hogg's for when i buy some later this year.


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

Shouldnt the question be *should politics play a part in animal husbandry/behavioural advancement?*

Playing devils advocate here, but .......................... politics and clued up have never actually appeared in the same sentence have they?

Think about it!!!!


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I like to think of myself as being a new age political keeper yes - I do my best to learn about legisltaional changes and such that would affect the keeping of exotics in the UK and I do my bit to help out with anything I can to prevent some of the more ridiculous legislations coming into play.

I never envisioned myself as being able to understand it all TBH - but I do understand and I have found it a lot easier to get through the legislation than I expected.

I do agree Pam that in most cases the two terms do not run alongside one another but I feel that as more keeprs become aware of legislation that may and already has affected them, the more clued up the exotics keeping world is becoming. 

With regards to the COP's I am all fo them. I agree that it is high time the anti brigade did something positive that reflected animal welfare instead of pushing animal rights all the time - after all the RSPCA was actually made a Royal society because of thier work in WELFARE issues!!!! I know some of the COP's are likely to put bees in bonnets and in the case especially of the likes of royal pythons, there could be problems posed by many keepers with viv sizing and such, but on the whole, I welcome the COP's to bring keeping into the 21st century and ensure that a good standard of care is maintained across the board 

May add more after I see to hubby's tablets


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

I note your Pro keeper signature

I think you missed my point hun, and theres a couple of points you mention i may return to later
but i dont think Rory will miss my point and will await his reply, should be interesting.

Thats not to say yours wasnt, it was, but begs its own reply at a later date when the thread has progressed.

If it does.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

It is perfectly possible Pam - head is a bit scattered right now - hubby with pneumonia and pleuracy, 2 kids both with flu and me being nurse, mum, running the business, studying, caring for Ichi and trying to find time to sleep lmao


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

Awww hun, poor you, what a task you have eh, bugger politics..............

wishing you all well and a speedy recovery for all.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

pam b said:


> Shouldnt the question be *should politics play a part in animal husbandry/behavioural advancement?*
> 
> Playing devils advocate here, but .......................... politics and clued up have never actually appeared in the same sentence have they?
> 
> Think about it!!!!


Question: Should they play a part?

Well perhaps not, but the fact is they are. If everything was hunky dory to begin with then perhaps we would not have seen a new animal welfare act coming into play - but even then that is not right. The last act was outdated by 100 years so it needed upgrading. The act itself is political as it took a government to create it over welfare issues, a government to implement it, so animal husbandry and behaviour is political - and as such is governed by legislation.

Politically clued up?

Nice point, and in some ways opposites. Our politics in the UK with animal husbandry and welfare is back to front, now it is fronting the back. Has politics always been clued up and have we all at times been politically clued up? Of course not, but we all are learning, and we all have a long way to go.

Codes of practice are political, they are needed, and because of their requirement we now find ourselves in a position of having to become clued up to meet them. Tis a pity that more emphasis is not placed on creating an outcry demanding that they are written by our side tho.

I may have missed your point Pam, but have answered the questions as l read them.


R


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

Ok, what i am trying to get at is that while no one can argue that a code of practise shouldnt be in place, should it be down to polititians or people with a political interest?

Can advancement in animal husbandry actually be harmed by legislation thus actually harming the animals they are expecting to protect?

What exactly is wrong with Old Skool Keepers, have they not advanced us significantly over the years?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

pam b said:


> Ok, what i am trying to get at is that while no one can argue that a code of practise shouldnt be in place, should it be down to polititians or people with a political interest?
> 
> Can advancement in animal husbandry actually be harmed by legislation thus actually harming the animals they are expecting to protect?
> 
> What exactly is wrong with Old Skool Keepers, have they not advanced us significantly over the years?


We do not have a choice Pam, if like the opposition we had their unlimited finances we perhaps could have got this rectified years ago, and whilst at the time, l am sure you will recall, there were those that were trying to advance it 'old school wise' but back then, keepers as indeed no differently to now considered what they were saying scare mongering!

Now we must adhere to what the politicians state and say because if we do not, we will lose our rights to keep exotics and that is a fact. The saddest fact is that there are not many pro keeping favourists in government today, for many have bitten into the cake of deception that the lobbying parties have thrust before them.

We just do not have the strength, to fight them, nor the finances, and in many ways and l know Chris will back this up, we do not have the political strength on the pro keeping side to fight this either.

We have a very small military might in this level Pam, we have as you know, one man with a small team of followers, both old school and new school trains of thought trying to battle this nightmare, and we are not winning this that well.

Can animal husbandry be harmed by legislation? Time will tell l suppose, l would hope not. But in our atypical defiance of legislation, this itself could in fact harm husbandry do you not think?

Old school has advanced us over the years yes, but alas it is not old school whom are sitting in parliament or lobbying outposts devising the anti exotic keeping legislation, it is very much a new school issue now, and that is why in order for us to win achievements we must look at all avenues of the debate.

We need new and old school keepers alike to work together efficiently, and this is not always the case, l am afraid. With old school battling against new school, we again, l reiterate will not win, until a collaboration of the two thought trains meet up half way for a compromise to be successful.

R


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Can animal husbandry be harmed by legislation? Time will tell l suppose, l would hope not. But in our atypical defiance of legislation, this itself could in fact harm husbandry do you not think?
> 
> R


I can only answer in the same manner as yourself, time would tell i suppose but i would like to think not.


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

May i ask Rory wether you do have any *old school* assisting on the COP's that are being prepared for submission from *our side* (for lack of a better word), i beleive i read this on another thread
Indeed can i ask whom is assisting with the COP's full stop.

As these are being written with a view that we could be following them if accepted then it would be nice to know whom we are putting our trust in?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

pam b said:


> May i ask Rory wether you do have any *old school* assisting on the COP's that are being prepared for submission from *our side* (for lack of a better word), i beleive i read this on another thread
> Indeed can i ask whom is assisting with the COP's full stop.
> 
> As these are being written with a view that we could be following them if accepted then it would be nice to know whom we are putting our trust in?


 
Of course you can ask.

Well one thing l can say is this:

TSKA are not assisting in the writing of the COP's for reptiles and neither am l personally involved in this. I know squat about reptiles nor do l pretend to. So my particiapation in this is not an issue.

The PKLKA push as readers may have noted on this forum of late, has been concentrated threads on husbandry and responsible ownership in the pre-empt for fuelling acknowledgement and motivating keepers to become actively involved in creating a desire - this desire is for the absolute need for the cop's to be written.

Currently it is a combination of 'old school and new school' in the creating of the cops for reptiles, l can tell you no more. I know of the template desired to be used, but as to the content, l haven't got a clue.

The emphasis is on short and succinct information that is easily handled, easier to read, and will be relatively universal in its approach so that more keepers will not feel threatened by the presence of it.

The writing of any code of practice can not be undertaken lightly by the writers, it must be realistic in so far as those that oppose the keeping of exotic species can see that a dedicated responsibility was behind the code when it was written, and not knocked up just for the sake of it.

But to answer your question directly, 

'At this present time, both trains of thought are looking at cop's and their design. It will come down to their interpretation as to how reptiles should be kept from the point of cop release and in the future of keeping reptiles'

Sorry, but that is the best l can provide you with.

R


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