# Crestie - determining asleep or dead



## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Hi guys,

I could really do with some help here.

My girlfriend has just realised that her crestie is on the soil of the viv with its eyes wide open. Now i know they have no eyelids, so it could very well be asleep, but it hasnt moved at all in about 3 hours.

If picked up there is absolutely no response.

Can anyone help advise with any way to check its vital signs?


thanks

Karl


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## cordylidae (Nov 2, 2008)

is it breathing?
how do its limbs feel if you move them?


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## frenchy1979 (Oct 30, 2009)

*slight movement*

Look under the throat, does it move like a frogs does. Casn you see any slight movement in the ribs, breathing motion etc. Run your finger under its tail, does it curl at all or try and wrap around your finger. If you pick it up and it flops then it could be dead or well on the way.

can you see if its fed at all over the last week or so, can you see any faeces in the viv. 

Cresty's do sometimes sleep in the substrate, possibly for heat, moisture or because it feels safer in there.


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## SeanEK4 (Dec 1, 2009)

can you visually see it breathing?


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## cordylidae (Nov 2, 2008)

if none on this works as a last resort this will tell you if it brain dead shine a light in its eyes and see if the pupil gets smaller(cant think of the damn word now!)


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## Leonine (Dec 19, 2009)

rase0121 said:


> if none on this works as a last resort this will tell you if it brain dead shine a light in its eyes and see if the pupil gets smaller(cant think of the damn word now!)


Constricts? 
Poor crestie.


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## Nicquita (Mar 14, 2009)

rase0121 said:


> if none on this works as a last resort this will tell you if it brain dead shine a light in its eyes and see if the pupil gets smaller(cant think of the damn word now!)


dilates

good luck, i hope the poor thing isn't dead. had it been ill or anything?


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## Doodle (Aug 7, 2008)

rase0121 said:


> if none on this works as a last resort this will tell you if it brain dead shine a light in its eyes and see if the pupil gets smaller(cant think of the damn word now!)


dilates ;-)


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## Leonine (Dec 19, 2009)

Just for clarity, when the pupil dilates it gets bigger, not smaller. 

Hope it snaps out of whatever's wrong.


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

It is a very small baby, so its hard to tell about the breathing, but i cannot see anything.

have had it 2 days now, no sign of faeces but the exoterra tank ive got it in, is fairly large (got it for when he gets larger, and to give him plenty of space)

ran a finger along the tail, but got nothing.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

KarlW said:


> It is a very small baby, so its hard to tell about the breathing, but i cannot see anything.
> 
> have had it 2 days now, no sign of faeces but the exoterra tank ive got it in, is fairly large (got it for when he gets larger, and to give him plenty of space)
> 
> ran a finger along the tail, but got nothing.


 sounds bad.. 

is the room cold ??

can you tell us anything about the tank and what it has been fed. I know cresties are very delicate with regards to sprays and chemiclas liek dodrants or room sprays being used around them.. or could it have been too cold for it when it was transported to your home ??


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## Nicquita (Mar 14, 2009)

KarlW said:


> It is a very small baby, so its hard to tell about the breathing, but i cannot see anything.
> 
> have had it 2 days now, no sign of faeces but the exoterra tank ive got it in, is fairly large (got it for when he gets larger, and to give him plenty of space)
> 
> ran a finger along the tail, but got nothing.


well that doesn't sound good  poor little thing. try the light shining thing...


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

KarlW said:


> It is a very small baby, so its hard to tell about the breathing, but i cannot see anything.
> 
> have had it 2 days now, no sign of faeces but the exoterra tank ive got it in, is fairly large (got it for when he gets larger, and to give him plenty of space)
> 
> ran a finger along the tail, but got nothing.


Any idea of temps, humidity, set up, diet etc?


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## philo (Jul 7, 2009)

try to post some pics


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Transported it a few days ago, was only in the car for maybe 20 minutes tops, with us trying to keep the temperature around the 70 fahrenheit level.

Its been in an exoterra with some wood (from rep shop) and some fake plants (i have real ones, but have swapped them to a non toxic/fertilizer/anything hazardous soil so that they can get rid of any nastyness in them before i put them in with the cresty)

Temperature has been in the region of 65-70 fahren (which was recommend to me)

it was perfectly fine earlier, about 1 pm (as my girlfriend remembers watching it walk around the top of the wood)

Had been fed on the smallest crickets i could get my hands on, and a small amount of rapashy in the tank with it. The shop said they fed it locusts, so i was intending to get some hoppers if he didnt eat the crickets, but so far it seems that he has eaten the crickets (only 1 left)

It is kept in my living room - no air fresheners are used, or deodorants.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

KarlW said:


> Transported it a few days ago, was only in the car for maybe 20 minutes tops, with us trying to keep the temperature around the 70 fahrenheit level.
> 
> Its been in an exoterra with some wood (from rep shop) and some fake plants (i have real ones, but have swapped them to a non toxic/fertilizer/anything hazardous soil so that they can get rid of any nastyness in them before i put them in with the cresty)
> 
> ...


Pics would help, ideally you want your day time temps between 70-75 and 65-70 at night : victory: locusts seem a little huge for a baby crestie :whistling2:


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## philo (Jul 7, 2009)

can you post some pics. it might be traumatized or something has anything loud or big chane in temperature happened also how big are the crickets compared to his head


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

By locusts i meant the tiny little hoppers.


What exactly do you want the pic of? i have 2 pics of him in a thread in the pictures subforum. Ive got a camera handy. Want to do whatever i can for him.


I will get the temperatures sorted ASAP and fix that. Most places i have looked at for revision listed overheating as alot more of a problem.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

KarlW said:


> Transported it a few days ago, was only in the car for maybe 20 minutes tops, with us trying to keep the temperature around the 70 fahrenheit level.
> 
> Its been in an exoterra with some wood (from rep shop) and some fake plants (i have real ones, but have swapped them to a non toxic/fertilizer/anything hazardous soil so that they can get rid of any nastyness in them before i put them in with the cresty)
> 
> ...


 
List the plants.. this happened to someoen I know last year he was told the plants were non toxic but one was.. and the crestie died and he didnt realise.. was really sad...

as for the substrate.. he could easily have injected some if its a little one. I keep all my babies on kitchen roll just incase..

so sorry this has happened..


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

I personally would try to pick him up and check for anything, check if he is stiff, any movement of any kind, have the live plants been with the cresty at all?

Sorry you have to go through this


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

philo said:


> can you post some pics. it might be traumatized or something has anything loud or big chane in temperature happened also how big are the crickets compared to his head


 
no big chances in temperature - the flat has been nearly a constant temperature all day.

no loud noises - everything is kept fairly quiet in our lounge, the tv is normally on, but on a fairly quiet setting.

Where we are its always quiet, so no need for everything to be loud.


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

The live plants havnt been within 4 feet of him, with him inside the exo, the plants outside of it for maybe 2 minutes whilst i unpacked it.



There is no rigidness, very floppy.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

Personally I woudld hold him in my hand for 5-10 mins to check for any signs of movement and to let him get a little heat from your hands, do his pupils move at all?

Oh and what live plants did you unpack in the viv?


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I was going to say, surely the answer is an easy one, pick him up and see what happens!


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

he sounds dead.. to be honest... either that or VERY sick..


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

The plants are ficus benjamina exotica but have never actually been near him. He was inside his exo when i unpacked the plants about 4 feet away from the exo.

I dont want to lose him, he is gorgeous. Is it likely to be something i have done?

Only choice now i can guess is to leave him overnight and see if he has moved when i get up.


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## Leonine (Dec 19, 2009)

Only a cold-blooded animal with no eyelids could make this so *difficult*....
Fingers crossed for the poor baby, hope he's only ill and can be saved.
Pictures?


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

To Give an idea of his size (although this pic is now a day or two old)


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

KarlW said:


> The plants are ficus benjamina exotica but have never actually been near him. He was inside his exo when i unpacked the plants about 4 feet away from the exo.
> 
> I dont want to lose him, he is gorgeous. Is it likely to be something i have done?
> 
> Only choice now i can guess is to leave him overnight and see if he has moved when i get up.


No one would really know for sure  could be many things, 

So sorry 

edit: Pics don't really give anything away :S very low quality


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry for pic quality, was quite difficult to get one without him trying to escape or the need for flash and i didnt want to spook him.


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## frenchy1979 (Oct 30, 2009)

*movement*

So you cant see under his chin moving, bulging etc. Cant see his ribs moving through breathing motion, does he still stand on your hand like in the photo or just lie there. no movement in the tail, no slight glancing. doesnt make any noize when you pick him up. Doesnt even wince or grimmous:gasp:

and is very limp when you pick him up:whistling2: dont like the sound of that, although you said he was walking around earlier on around 1pm. where did you get him from, maybe they have had some problems with other hatchlings. or viruses or parasites??

have you done the warming him up with your hands yet, hold him for some time to look for glimpses:hmm:


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## cordylidae (Nov 2, 2008)

have you tried the light?
i would now it should tell you whether his brain is active or not. the pupil should constrict(this may be minor constriction but it should tell you if its brain is active or not) 

the plant used is safe so i doubt it is that.could it be possible that it fell?have you used aerosol today in the room?


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## cordylidae (Nov 2, 2008)

frenchy1979 said:


> and is very limp when you pick him up:whistling2: dont like the sound of that, although you said he was walking around earlier on around 1pm. where did you get him from, maybe they have had some problems with other hatchlings. or viruses or parasites??


parasites or viruses would of probably shown ealrier syptoms and not this


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Pick him up. They sometimes take a little while to respond to being woken up. Can usually tell when they are sleeping by the pupils being almost non visible and the eyes being slightly sunk into the head.


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## Nicquita (Mar 14, 2009)

fishboy said:


> Pick him up. They sometimes take a little while to respond to being woken up. Can usually tell when they are sleeping by the pupils being almost non visible and the eyes being slightly sunk into the head.


as harsh as it is, i think the warming and waking ship has probably sailed, as the OP started this thread a fair few hours ago. poor little thing


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## phoenixwoof (Aug 23, 2007)

not that you would want to put him through this but maybe useful to other crestie owners i guess....when they have passed it is almost impossible to open their mouths as the jaw almost fuses together i guess due to rigor mortis. a few months ago one of my females who had recently been operated looked as if she had passed in the night but i wasnt completely sure so rushed her down to the vets. he attempted to pull her mouth open by holding the skin under her jaw - it wouldnt open her mouth which indicated to him that she was indeed dead. sad times. i hope the outcome for you is more positive.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

im sorry for the poor crestie and i do hope hes ok, but if one of my geckos looked dead or acted dead i would do my best to see if it was dead and i would report streight back to here, If ur crestie looks dead follow the instructions ppl have given u on here then tell us the responses! it aint hard just tell us all !!!! im sorry but if i thought one of me leos were dead i would be on here and i would be most likely making sure it isnt!!!


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## jnc0_ (Sep 9, 2009)

when people asked for pics im pretty sure they meant pics of the crestie right then so that they could help you :whistling2:


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

The light in the eyes did nothing (thought i had posted that last night with the list of other bits i have tried)

As previously stated, no aerosols have been used.

Tried the warming thing as well, no luck.

Left him last night in a place so that i knew where he would be, so i could tell if he had moved overnight, and he has not.


Karl


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## carolineg (Nov 30, 2009)

Unfortunately it looks pretty certain that he's died.


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## Lew (May 31, 2009)

Sorry for you mate, i know how it feels.
All i'll say is dont give up just because of this.


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## Griff2294 (Jun 3, 2009)

carolineg said:


> Unfortunately it looks pretty certain that he's died.


Agreed. Unfortunately this is the way life is, some just don't make it.. There is quite a high chance that you did nothing wrong at all and that it just wasn't supposed to be for the little fella.. Sorry for your loss : victory:


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## Simplylucy (May 22, 2009)

How sad.

Do you think he could have fallen from the wood? If he's in a large exo then it would have been a big drop to the ground.


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

im sorry if he has died but when you buy another i really suggest getting a smaller temporary viv/cage for it. i do hope u have better luck next time and cresties arnt the easiest gecko to keep u hav got to have temps perfect.


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## philo (Jul 7, 2009)

if you buy another one from the same store and it has the same reaction than i would report the store plus my last crestie had a bond on it and if it died within the first 15 days it came to my possetion they would refund it.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry to tell you this but I suspect the little one has passed away  so sorry for your loss, but don't give up. 
If you do get another crestie then as others suggested put him in something small to start off, and I would advise getting him from a breeder rather than a pet shop : victory:


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

rase0121 said:


> parasites or viruses would of probably shown ealrier syptoms and not this


 actually thats not true.. parasites, pathogens and virus can be a lengthy obvious decline or a very sudden one..


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## cordylidae (Nov 2, 2008)

sparkle said:


> actually thats not true.. parasites, pathogens and virus can be a lengthy obvious decline or a very sudden one..


i would of thought pathogens would show earlier symptoms as they reproduce(even if minor rather than sudden death) although you are right that it is possible that they could of caused sudden death.


OP R.I.P for the little one


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## KarlW (Oct 6, 2009)

Simplylucy said:


> Do you think he could have fallen from the wood? If he's in a large exo then it would have been a big drop to the ground.


Its an 45(W)x45(D)x60(H) exo, but the wood is at a slant against the wall on the right hand side (he has been happy to run up and down it)

He was found away from the wood, on the left side of the enclosure, at the bottom of a fake plant, but that is only maybe 3 inches tall.


Karl


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