# What makes a hybino?



## debcot1 (May 13, 2008)

i am desperatly trying to get my head around genetics of leos and like most is making my head feel like theres nothing but cotton wool in there!!
as i understand a hybino is some sort of hypo cross albino. if the albino is recessive and only the hypo colours show then how do they create a hybino that shows both?
i may have got this totally wrong but thats why im asking.
please expain like youre telling a 5 yr old!! :lol2:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

The first time I heard the term "hybino" was in a milk snake forum. Honduran milk snakes can have red/orange rings and black rings. A hypo Honduran seems to have gray rings instead of black rings and the red rings do not seem to be affected much. An albino Honduran lacks the black pigment and has white rings instead of black rings. Crossing the two types produces normal-looking double hets. In the second generation, there are normals, hypos, albinos, and some babies with white rings and light orange rings instead of red/orange rings. These are the hypo-albinos or hybinos. In these snakes you can see a difference when the two mutants are combined.

Hybino in leos may be something similar to Honduran milk snakes, with hypo affecting the yellow color. But I don't know leo genetics well enough to say for sure.

On the other hand, albino commonly masks the effect of other mutants in a variety of animals. If so, then a breeding test is required. The albino is mated to a non-albino with the desired mutant gene, and the appearance of the babies tell you what other mutant gene(s) the albino has. For example, I have an albino mouse, and I want to know whether it also has a pair of nonagouti mutant genes. Nonagouti is recessive to the normal version of the gene and produces a black mouse. I would mate the albino to a black mouse that has a pair of nonagouti genes. If I get 10 babies from the mating, and all of them are black, the odds are greater than 99% that the albino mouse has a pair of nonagouti mutant genes. If I get a mixture of black and agouti (normally colored) babies, then the albino mouse has to have a nonagouti mutant gene paired with a normal gene.

Clear as mud?


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## herp boy (May 4, 2007)

a 'hybino' or 'sunglow' is a hypo/super hypo albino


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

You get a hybino by crossin a Hypo X albino = Hypo het albino and then you mate the hypo het albinos with a Viusal albino.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

I checked the Morph List and some pictures. 

Hypomelanistic is described as having 0-12 spots on body. Super hypomelanistic is described as having an orange or yellow body and lacking all spots on the body, with very few head spots.

It looks to me as if the Tremper albino prevents all or most of the black pigment from forming. The markings are visible but ghosted out. The hypo would add yellow color and minimize the ghosted markings. So both mutants would contribute to the sunglow/hybino appearance.

By the way, hypomelanistic is marked recessive in the morph list. But from the descriptions and other posts in this thread, it it looks more like some sort of dominant mutant gene to me.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

debcot1 said:


> i am desperatly trying to get my head around genetics of leos and like most is making my head feel like theres nothing but cotton wool in there!!


This is a fairly common complaint from herpers trying to learn genetics from herper web sites. Some sites expect people to run when they are still at the crawling stage. Others contain enough misinformation to make my hair stand straight up.

Gregor Mendel did his pioneering experiments on pea plants. But the same principles apply to mice, pigeons, leopard geckos, etc. You might try this site:
Main Menu

It covers the principles of genetics, and once you understand the principles, you can apply them to leopard geckos. Unfortunately, the site is not perfect, but it is better than most of the herper sites I have looked at.


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

paulh said:


> I checked the Morph List and some pictures.
> 
> Hypomelanistic is described as having 0-12 spots on body. Super hypomelanistic is described as having an orange or yellow body and lacking all spots on the body, with very few head spots.
> 
> ...


Its a co-dom morph, Albino is recessive so thats why in the first gen you get hypo het albino, then when they are bred back to the albino they produce hybinos.


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## debcot1 (May 13, 2008)

paulh said:


> This is a fairly common complaint from herpers trying to learn genetics from herper web sites. Some sites expect people to run when they are still at the crawling stage. Others contain enough misinformation to make my hair stand straight up.
> 
> Gregor Mendel did his pioneering experiments on pea plants. But the same principles apply to mice, pigeons, leopard geckos, etc. You might try this site:
> Main Menu
> ...


thankyou, i will check this site out. i have looked at loads but like you say...way too confusing for little old me!!!



Faith said:


> Its a co-dom morph, Albino is recessive so thats why in the first gen you get hypo het albino, then when they are bred back to the albino they produce hybinos.


thanks, i get it now.
im getting some albinos from you when the tremper order arrives and im going to get some sort of hypo or mack snow for a breeding project IF i can get my head round it all. where i live there isnt really any breeders and leos are very expensive and youre lucky to get anything except normals without travelling a fair distance which most people dont want to do because of ferry fares etc. i would like to produce something visually attractive at affordable prices. but making money is far from my agenda as it something i want to do anyway!!!


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Ah yes so you are its hard to keep track of them lol 
Breeding for money is point less it costs a bomb to feed them lol 
But the tremper females would be great to make hybinos


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## debcot1 (May 13, 2008)

Faith said:


> Ah yes so you are its hard to keep track of them lol
> Breeding for money is point less it costs a bomb to feed them lol
> But the tremper females would be great to make hybinos


i totally agree with the money thing, i want to do it coz i love reps and am so interested in helping make some gorgeous lil ones and again to make them more available here. its a nightmare to get anything decent. theres only 1 decent rep shop on the whole island but they are still shop prices.

i thought the tremper albinos would be good to breed with a variety of other morphs especially the patternless. just hoping i dont get only males!! i love the look of them too. i cant wait till i get them!! hurry up!! :lol2:
whilst on the subject do you have any hypos of any sort on the list?


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

debcot1 said:


> i totally agree with the money thing, i want to do it coz i love reps and am so interested in helping make some gorgeous lil ones and again to make them more available here. its a nightmare to get anything decent. theres only 1 decent rep shop on the whole island but they are still shop prices.
> 
> i thought the tremper albinos would be good to breed with a variety of other morphs especially the patternless. just hoping i dont get only males!! i love the look of them too. i cant wait till i get them!! hurry up!! :lol2:
> whilst on the subject do you have any hypos of any sort on the list?


No hun we dont for some reason ron dont do hypos lol 
but there are a few on here that do and keep an eye out for our site in a few days


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## makeitandskateit (Jun 15, 2008)

breed a visual albino to a visual hypo
you will get a normal/hypo looking gecko
you then breed that to a visual albino to get the hybino

(p.s: a hybino may still have patterns on the head or tail, but these will be brown in colour and the albino gene will remove all dark melanine in the skin)




pretty smart eh, for a 13 year old who started herping only a few months ago!!! :lol2:


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## debcot1 (May 13, 2008)

makeitandskateit said:


> breed a visual albino to a visual hypo
> you will get a normal/hypo looking gecko
> you then breed that to a visual albino to get the hybino
> 
> ...


smarty pants!!!! do they teach genetics at school!!:lol2::lol2:
thanks tho!


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## makeitandskateit (Jun 15, 2008)

debcot1 said:


> smarty pants!!!! do they teach genetics at school!!:lol2::lol2:
> thanks tho!


 
No but you may know my dad Ron Tremper.















just kidding!!! :lol2:


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