# Rain Frogs - Breviceps adspersus...



## Alex M

The worlds most comical/cute looking anuran I reckon.

Cheers
Al


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## katness

hehe they look cute but i cant help laughing at them


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## berksmike

Gorgeous frogs - saw that dartfrog has a couple of groups of 4 for sale.
Whats their care like Alex? Not seen much around about them


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## TIMOTHY AND MATILDA

They look like my asian painted/chubby frogs :lol2:


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## jme2049

Haha they look awesome:2thumb:. I can imagine their little waddle now. 
Do you own them?


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## Alex M

jme2049 said:


> Haha they look awesome:2thumb:. I can imagine their little waddle now.
> Do you own them?


Hi JME,

That's a picture from Google, but I will put some pics up at the end of next week - and you're correct, they waddle/scurry - as far as I'm aware they don't have it in them to hop!.

Cheers 
Al


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## Alex M

berksmike said:


> Gorgeous frogs - saw that dartfrog has a couple of groups of 4 for sale.
> Whats their care like Alex? Not seen much around about them


Hi Mike,

Ever since I was a little boy I've had a real fascination with Breviceps species, particularly these, adspersus, the most well known member of the 12 or so Breviceps species. I can offer no previous practical experience with this genus, as they're a Microhylid I've longed to maintain but have never been able to get hold of them. Their availability in the UK is extremely rare at best, though they've been listed in the past. I will approach their husbandry as I do any other species - by replicating what I know of the given species in their natural environment to the best of my ability. Breeding these guys has to be the ultimate challenge, but I'll be giving it the best shot that I can mate.

Hope you well,
Al


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## Alex M

TIMOTHY AND MATILDA said:


> They look like my asian painted/chubby frogs :lol2:


Both Microhylids Jackie, and I reckon that Kaloula are very much underated - But (only my personal opinion) they're not in the same league facially!

Cheers
Al


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## soundstounite

Hey mate ,ya good?.Al we have talked about these before,i think these are the guys that pop up when it rains for a day,to breed aren't they? and build a foam nest that the tads hatch and rear in,underground,she drags him down with her? Mate what are your thoughts on how you could get this chamber visable,under captive conditions,I am sure you have gone there in theory,as if you ever did get to keep/breed these,then this would be a must see!!(LMAO hope i got the right frogs,these were filmed by Sir D A?) Mate i admire you,i don't know whether i could deal with not seeing me charges for months,just a few weeks is doing my head in:lol2:,yeah i know kiddo patience......we can do that:whistling2:


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> Hey mate ,ya good?.Al we have talked about these before,i think these are the guys that pop up when it rains for a day,to breed aren't they? and build a foam nest that the tads hatch and rear in,underground,she drags him down with her? Mate what are your thoughts on how you could get this chamber visable,under captive conditions,I am sure you have gone there in theory,as if you ever did get to keep/breed these,then this would be a must see!!(LMAO hope i got the right frogs,these were filmed by Sir D A?) Mate i admire you,i don't know whether i could deal with not seeing me charges for months,just a few weeks is doing my head in:lol2:,yeah i know kiddo patience......we can do that:whistling2:


Hello mate! All good here ta, how are you? Right, where to start. Firstly, regarding the visability of this species in captivity - The funny thing is Stu, is that I've actually always enjoyed species that you don't see out and about 24/7, this may sound odd but I find it a bigger 'kick' if you like when I do see them. I know that Breviceps are generally a heavily fossorial species, but they do come out at night particularly during and after the 2 rainy seasons which combined makes up quite alot of the year, the 4 hot months are October, November, December and January and it is at this point that you can expect to see very little of them. But when the short rainy seasons come, and the interim periods, they can actually be seen out and about during the day feeding heavily on insects - a real favourite prey item are termites. As they've just come into the country, I'm busy planning exactly how to set the converted tank up, reason I'm thinking so much about it, is that my understanding is the rains are arriving at this time of year in their native S.Africa, and they will have already had their summers aestivation so essentially it's a case of raising the substrata humidity levels which I will do in conjunction with the rainy periods/low pressure we're sure to see here in Dorset over the next 6 weeks or so. I have to take advantage of that low pressure whilst it's here, and perhaps hope for the best. Next part to follow mate.


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## Alex M

Having problems with my internet connection tonight Stu, hence why I posted what I'd first typed whilst I could (this never happens!), and just tried to post the follow up... Sure enough, lost it all! Bloody annoying! Oh well, it wasn't that interesting anyway!.

Hope you well mate,
Al


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## Ron Magpie

soundstounite said:


> Hey mate ,ya good?.Al we have talked about these before,i think these are the guys that pop up when it rains for a day,to breed aren't they? and build a foam nest that the tads hatch and rear in,underground,she drags him down with her? *Mate what are your thoughts on how you could get this chamber visable,under captive conditions,I am sure you have gone there in theory,as if you ever did get to keep/breed these,then this would be a must see!!*(LMAO hope i got the right frogs,these were filmed by Sir D A?) Mate i admire you,i don't know whether i could deal with not seeing me charges for months,just a few weeks is doing my head in:lol2:,yeah i know kiddo patience......we can do that:whistling2:


Could always use the same principle as worm farms, and cover the soil part of the tank with black card, only removing it for viewing... Of course, just like worm farms, unless you use a fairly narrow (back to front) tank, there would be no guarantee that the little :censor:s wouldn't decide to dig at the back where you can't see!:lol2:


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## Alex M

Ron Magpie said:


> Could always use the same principle as worm farms, and cover the soil part of the tank with black card, only removing it for viewing... Of course, just like worm farms, unless you use a fairly narrow (back to front) tank, there would be no guarantee that the little :censor:s wouldn't decide to dig at the back where you can't see!:lol2:


 
That's what I was thinking of doing mate (not counting my chickens of course), IF I succeeded in breeding them Ron, I would have to think of a way of making the substrata closer to the glass the favourable place to construct the chamber, I would suspect making that area more humid would probably help entice them.

Hope you well mate,
Cheers
Al


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## Ron Magpie

Pretty good, mate. How about some barrior to digging toward the back? Stones or even bricks under a shallowish layer of substrate, with the deeper digging area at the front? Just an idea...


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## soundstounite

Good buddy,well i am Shaz still fighting hard but suffering,will give her a bit more distaction soon hopefully,will tell more later too ha!!Sorry mate i missed that you actually had some comming thats very cool news,(totally stoked for you mate i know how keen you are on these from the last time you spoke about them)and after reading about their native weather,understand much more :2thumb:for the education!! I guess you better get your skates on mate,really interested in how this goes,as always bro all the luck on this,properly interesting on how this all takes shape
be lucky mate 
Stu


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## Alex M

Ron Magpie said:


> Pretty good, mate. How about some barrior to digging toward the back? Stones or even bricks under a shallowish layer of substrate, with the deeper digging area at the front? Just an idea...


 
Lost connection again!. That's a really good idea R, or I could be really mean and fill 97% of the floor space with cement leaving just a coke cans worth of space filled with red soil/sand mix


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## soundstounite

Ron Magpie said:


> Could always use the same principle as worm farms, and cover the soil part of the tank with black card, only removing it for viewing... Of course, just like worm farms, unless you use a fairly narrow (back to front) tank, there would be no guarantee that the little :censor:s wouldn't decide to dig at the back where you can't see!:lol2:


 yeah i went there Ron because thats exactly what they would do to me,and to miss that would be such a shame,especially right under ones nose:gasp:.Oooo this ones a proper challenge!!


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## Ron Magpie

Lol. Bricks give you the option of changing the layout, though, if you decide you don't like it.


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> Good buddy,well i am Shaz still fighting hard but suffering,will give her a bit more distaction soon hopefully,will tell more later too ha!!Sorry mate i missed that you actually had some comming thats very cool news,(totally stoked for you mate i know how keen you are on these from the last time you spoke about them)and after reading about their native weather,understand much more :2thumb:for the education!! I guess you better get your skates on mate,really interested in how this goes,as always bro all the luck on this,properly interesting on how this all takes shape
> be lucky mate
> Stu


Shaz is a hero for you in that Dart Room fella, I tell you! Also, I see all is alright with the 'shy' auratus, you worrier . Regarding your last post - I will/am getting my skates on, the thing is with imported amphibians is that you often find you get a small window to play with when they first arrive, provided they're in good shape they're 9 times out of 10 collected during when they're most visible, and surprise surprise, that's normally around the breeding season so essentially they should be 'ready to go'. Maintenance and setting up wise, I do not (touch wood) expect them to be a problem - My one slight concern is diet. They feed heavily on, but are by no means restricted to, termites. Given that the tadpoles allegedly never feed, it would be interested to see how they morph out as the eggs measure 8mm when laid - But is there something in the termites that is an essential part of the egg to metamorph stage? I guess if I was fortunate enough to breed them then I'd soon find out. But I can't really imagine a 'cuter' phib than a metamorph B.adspersus...


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## Alex M

Ron Magpie said:


> Lol. Bricks give you the option of changing the layout, though, if you decide you don't like it.


 
I will bear this idea in mind mate - Thanks!. After we talked about the breeding of adspersus before I looked into it further, and apparently out of the 50 or so eggs, 30 of uppermost eggs are laid infertile. Something for the young to feed on i.e oophagy? I had that suspicion before I knew this fact, and now find it very odd that a species would lay so many infertile eggs other than to provide nourishment... or maybe it's simply to provide more moisture within the chamber, slow release humidity. I hope to be able to get to the bottom of it... Literally!


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Having problems with my internet connection tonight Stu, hence why I posted what I'd first typed whilst I could (this never happens!), and just tried to post the follow up... Sure enough, lost it all! Bloody annoying! Oh well, it wasn't that interesting anyway!.
> 
> Hope you well mate,
> Al


 ha i went through that last year used to drive me ruddy nuts,son has sorted it now,he said grabbing wood,ha bet it was!!


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Lost connection again!. That's a really good idea R, or I could be really mean and fill 97% of the floor space with cement leaving just a coke cans worth of space filled with red soil/sand mix


:gasp::lol2:


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> ha i went through that last year used to drive me ruddy nuts,son has sorted it now,he said grabbing wood,ha bet it was!!


Considering I live in the wilds of Dorset, it's normally very reliable! Here's that Attenborough video again mate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6NvnsrBNqw


EDIT - Changed it to the full length video.


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## Alex M

Btw, Marc did tell me today that he had alot of people after these so I will take the chance now to apologise if you were one of the people that was after some. I would have bought just 1 group, but given it was such a rare opportunity I simply couldn't risk having just 1 female given that my intention is to breed them, hence why I'm purchasing them all.

Cheers
Al


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Shaz is a hero for you in that Dart Room fella, I tell you! Also, I see all is alright with the 'shy' auratus, you worrier . Regarding your last post - I will/am getting my skates on, the thing is with imported amphibians is that you often find you get a small window to play with when they first arrive, provided they're in good shape they're 9 times out of 10 collected during when they're most visible, and surprise surprise, that's normally around the breeding season so essentially they should be 'ready to go'. Maintenance and setting up wise, I do not (touch wood) expect them to be a problem - My one slight concern is diet. They feed heavily on, but are by no means restricted to, termites. Given that the tadpoles allegedly never feed, it would be interested to see how they morph out as the eggs measure 8mm when laid - But is there something in the termites that is an essential part of the egg to metamorph stage? I guess if I was fortunate enough to breed them then I'd soon find out. But I can't really imagine a 'cuter' phib than a metamorph B.adspersus...


yeah she loves it mate,i am just there for the ride(OMG she has just started playing FFs,i can hear tapping, 10:45 PM help),they are absorbing for her mate nah da frogs,wait till she gets tads:mf_dribble: and to your last point ickle frogs,mate agreed the adults are super cute,what a froglet would be like...wow. Two astute observations there mate,you never know as you say collecting at breeding time they might be covered nutritionally for this season,so after you sort it out this year:mf_dribble: then your real test will be next year!!! but didn't you have thoughts that the tads might munch on the nest? of course there could be nutritional parameters there aswell.
:2thumb: yeah am worrier mate,well about stock,but i guess we all do that esp on new stuff,still i now know that a dart frog can sit in a film canaster now for a week without moving,and still walk away,thats something right there: victory:,cold blooded are oft amazing!!
Stu


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> yeah she loves it mate,i am just there for the ride(OMG she has just started playing FFs,i can hear tapping, 10:45 PM help),they are absorbing for her mate nah da frogs,wait till she gets tads:mf_dribble: and to your last point ickle frogs,mate agreed the adults are super cute,what a froglet would be like...wow. Two astute observations there mate,you never know as you say collecting at breeding time they might be covered nutritionally for this season,so after you sort it out this year:mf_dribble: then your real test will be next year!!! but didn't you have thoughts that the tads might munch on the nest? of course there could be nutritional parameters there aswell.
> :2thumb: yeah am worrier mate,well about stock,but i guess we all do that esp on new stuff,still i now know that a dart frog can sit in a film canaster now for a week without moving,and still walk away,thats something right there: victory:,cold blooded are oft amazing!!
> Stu


Haha, that comment about Shaz and the FF's gave me a laugh mate!. Regarding the 'oophagy', I think there is something in this, or similar as I will explain. I've always had the suspicion that the development is not like a couple of the Eleutherodactylus species etc where development takes place start to finish within the egg on land without extra supplementation (like Breviceps allegedly do). Though I have no scientific proof to back this up, I'm certain that there are vital nutrients within that foam and tadpoles feed on that and/or the large amount of infertile eggs that are also produced - plus I'm not entirely convinced that whilst the mother remains underground she doesn't add further to this. All very interesting, and so much to learn me old mucker!.

Cheers
Al


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## spencerburgo

Alex M said:


> Considering I live in the wilds of Dorset, it's normally very reliable! Here's that Attenborough video again mate...
> 
> YouTube - The Rain Frog
> 
> 
> EDIT - Changed it to the full length video.


good video i remember watching the original programme, good luck with your new project: victory:

cheers spencer............


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## richie.b

Nice find Al, this will be a good breeding project for you and cant wait to see how it turns out. As you say most amphibians are caught when coming out for breeding ive bred quite few wc amphibs that have just been added to the trade list, done this a few times with retf as soon as our mate had them listed back in the days when they were available
good luck with these little golfballs with legs Al

Richie


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## Alex M

richie.b said:


> Nice find Al, this will be a good breeding project for you and cant wait to see how it turns out. As you say most amphibians are caught when coming out for breeding ive bred quite few wc amphibs that have just been added to the trade list, done this a few times with retf as soon as our mate had them listed back in the days when they were available
> good luck with these little golfballs with legs Al
> 
> Richie


Cheers mate, and a very apt description - 'little golfballs with legs'. We'll have to see regarding breeding, but I'm keeping a close eye on what's happening with the weather patterns at the moment so will probably mist the enclosure heavily from the night they arrive hoping they'll sense the low barometric pressure - It's worth a go!

Take care mate,
Al


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## jme2049

Alex M said:


> Considering I live in the wilds of Dorset, it's normally very reliable! Here's that Attenborough video again mate...
> 
> YouTube - The Rain Frog
> 
> 
> EDIT - Changed it to the full length video.


Ahh I remember seeing this now. tbh the are quite mobile, I imagined they would look a bit more awkward when walking.:lol2:
Good luck with the breeding:2thumb:

Jamie.


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## Alex M

jme2049 said:


> Ahh I remember seeing this now. tbh the are quite mobile, I imagined they would look a bit more awkward when walking.:lol2:
> Good luck with the breeding:2thumb:
> 
> Jamie.


Cheers Jamie (and Spencer), will give it a go. I'm going to focus on breeding the indoor species this year such as the adspersus, and will leave the outdoor species spawn in situ to do whatever it likes this year, as it would in the wild without human intervention.


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Haha, that comment about Shaz and the FF's gave me a laugh mate!. Regarding the 'oophagy', I think there is something in this, or similar as I will explain. I've always had the suspicion that the development is not like a couple of the Eleutherodactylus species etc where development takes place start to finish within the egg on land without extra supplementation (like Breviceps allegedly do). Though I have no scientific proof to back this up, I'm certain that there are vital nutrients within that foam and tadpoles feed on that and/or the large amount of infertile eggs that are also produced - plus I'm not entirely convinced that whilst the mother remains underground she doesn't add further to this. All very interesting, and so much to learn me old mucker!.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


Hey mate! as far as me darling goes,glad it made you smile,she is one hell of a stockman :lol2:,observant, well ya know bla bla ,the best though is ...no idea how good she is,no idea whatsoever!!:blush: to say don't know about the Eleurthodactylus(you have no idea how hard it was to type that for me LMAO),your gonna make me do more reserch taskmaster!! Mate,what are you thinking with mum? do you mean like cacealians? or are you going somewhere else? summerising,froglets with teeth?
agreed so so much to learn,its just getting it all to stick:lol2:Ha i was viv building for you in me sleep last night,for these,we best not go there,hope your low pressure comes mate,at the right time ,have a feeling you might have to wait for our good ol english summer,say late may june,we will see,i also need rain mate but for different reasons,thanks for putting up the vid link,but erm he is our hero TOO, so we have nearly everything the man has done and watch it to death,well that is when the dvd works
be very lucky with these and yourself
Stu
ps getting towards the tunes mate serious lack of time ,oh and my usual organisational skills:blush:


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> Hey mate! as far as me darling goes,glad it made you smile,she is one hell of a stockman :lol2:,observant, well ya know bla bla ,the best though is ...no idea how good she is,no idea whatsoever!!:blush: to say don't know about the Eleurthodactylus(you have no idea how hard it was to type that for me LMAO),your gonna make me do more reserch taskmaster!! Mate,what are you thinking with mum? do you mean like cacealians? or are you going somewhere else? summerising,froglets with teeth?
> agreed so so much to learn,its just getting it all to stick:lol2:Ha i was viv building for you in me sleep last night,for these,we best not go there,hope your low pressure comes mate,at the right time ,have a feeling you might have to wait for our good ol english summer,say late may june,we will see,i also need rain mate but for different reasons,thanks for putting up the vid link,but erm he is our hero TOO, so we have nearly everything the man has done and watch it to death,well that is when the dvd works
> be very lucky with these and yourself
> Stu
> ps getting towards the tunes mate serious lack of time ,oh and my usual organisational skills:blush:


 
Evening mate, the Eleutherodactylus breeding behaviour of a couple of species is different than the Breviceps, just an example of start to finish development on land. We used to get these and other stowaways i.e Ololygron rubra come in alot when I used to help at Poole Aquarium as a teenager, don't recall them ever breeding mind. I didn't mean that the Breviceps tads feed on mum ala Caecilians, rather that perhaps she could produce further eggs to feed those (maybe) hungry mouths, though I think they may get their nutrients from the foam nests - would seem quite logical to me


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## berksmike

What sort of depth tank you gonna use Alex? You gonna create a breeding chamber within the substrate or let them dig it out themsleves?

Would be really interested to hear how you get on - was one of the stand out species from the amphibian episode of Life in Cold Blood


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Evening mate, the Eleutherodactylus breeding behaviour of a couple of species is different than the Breviceps, just an example of start to finish development on land. We used to get these and other stowaways i.e Ololygron rubra come in alot when I used to help at Poole Aquarium as a teenager, don't recall them ever breeding mind. I didn't mean that the Breviceps tads feed on mum ala Caecilians, rather that perhaps she could produce further eggs to feed those (maybe) hungry mouths, though I think they may get their nutrients from the foam nests - would seem quite logical to me


 had time for a rew mo.s of reserch ,always playing catch up mate,,is O.rubra spelt correctly i can't find them:blush:. Mate i guess you reasoning is way more sound than mine,but thats the thing about phibs you can always go "out there" and they will confound one, by going farther,ahh Al you have so got to breed these just to satisfy my curiousity let alone your own!!,as above with Mike need to see how your gona tackle this enthralling ,it is!!
Stu


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## Alex M

berksmike said:


> What sort of depth tank you gonna use Alex? You gonna create a breeding chamber within the substrate or let them dig it out themsleves?
> 
> Would be really interested to hear how you get on - was one of the stand out species from the amphibian episode of Life in Cold Blood


Hi Mike,

From what I can gather the lower breeding chamber is found approximately 1.5 feet below ground so I'm going to be looking at a 2.5 feet deep modified aquarium in the long run (but you'll have to read the rest of this post to see if that'll be worthwhile....). However, I need to get this built so I initially will keep the 2 groups in 2 seperate glass tanks. The reason being is so I can set both up slightly differently and carefully observe which setup is seemingly works best. I will plant the enclosures with Aloe vera and Lithops for that South African feel. I have 2 herpetologist friends in S.Africa who know this species and the climate etc well, and will consequently be asking them lots of questions such as soil temperatures at a depth of 30cm at its hottest point (day) and also coolest (night), this will help me when I come to set the thermostat. I will also want to know what humidity reading they get a foot below ground and will be asking them to measure this for me on a quarterly basis - I'm not going to be p155ing around here . I should point out the disheartening news that they're apparently impossible to keep alive for any length of time in captivity, as I suspected earlier in the thread, I believe diet to be key with this species and that's my only concern, that this is what is ultimately their downfall in captivity. I can get the finer details right, I'm sure of that - But I can't import termites, whether I like it or not, so I have to hope that it's not dietary regarding their alleged poor reputation in captivity. We'll see what happens mate...

Cheers,
Al


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## berksmike

Yeah I heard the same thing in terms of captive life expectancy of hemisus marmoratus which apparantly is hard to maintain on available livefoods here (as opposed to their natural diet of ants and termites).
Its that mainly that put me off that species.
I dont know if you could fool them with a species like drosophila mulleri which certainly looks ant-like

Best of luck with these tho mate - Im sure if anyone can crack it youll have the best chance


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## Alex M

berksmike said:


> Yeah I heard the same thing in terms of captive life expectancy of hemisus marmoratus which apparantly is hard to maintain on available livefoods here (as opposed to their natural diet of ants and termites).
> Its that mainly that put me off that species.
> I dont know if you could fool them with a species like drosophila mulleri which certainly looks ant-like
> 
> Best of luck with these tho mate - Im sure if anyone can crack it youll have the best chance


 
A very interesting species you have mentioned on a number of levels, I have a really good article on them in one of my old 'Vivarium' magazines. But yes - I think it's dietary all in all. But having said it may just be something as silly as these two examples - the difference between keeping Salamandra salamandra at a 10 degree difference i.e 65F and 75F is what? Well, the answer is obviously death. What about Budgetts frogs, L.laevis? As you know, it's been proven that they must be able to aestivate to survive in captivity long term. So both of these are examples that show where the smallest relative difference between success and failure lies. Now bringing that into the Breviceps context - Being kept in a tub with some moist eco earth and a small water bowl plus constant year round temperatures of 75F maybe all that's killing them...

It's a little theory... And one that I hope is right. If it's termites - I'm Donald Ducked.

Cheers
Al


P.s - Regarding the Fruities, I will offer them but I'm going to also do what I did with my Phrynosoma's - offer ants. And gutload crickets, locusts and roaches with freshly chopped grasses where possible.


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## richie.b

I think you could be right Al these are a very strange phib with strange habits so like you say putting them in a tub with moist eco earth and a water dish is definatly not the way forward. And as for the termite thing is it possible thats all that is available for them to eat in the wild, doesnt mean they wont survive on other foods. Anyway if anyone can sort it youre the man for the job. Now when do i get my invitation to come and see all these wonderfull amphibians, i guess your not having the frogmeet now 

cheers
Richie


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## Alex M

richie.b said:


> I think you could be right Al these are a very strange phib with strange habits so like you say putting them in a tub with moist eco earth and a water dish is definatly not the way forward. And as for the termite thing is it possible thats all that is available for them to eat in the wild, doesnt mean they wont survive on other foods. Anyway if anyone can sort it youre the man for the job. Now when do i get my invitation to come and see all these wonderfull amphibians, i guess your not having the frogmeet now
> 
> cheers
> Richie


Well they've arrived - and dare I say it as a bloke - but they've got to be the cutest little animals I've ever come face to face with!. They're identical to those in the picture in my first post. As you would expect there's a massive difference in size between the males and females, so all looks good there. They are a territorial species, but I still think they'll be lost in the huge tank that I've set up. I think I've got the sandy soil mix right, I used alot of soil from the ants nests as it was quite loose and reddish and looks in it's make up very similar to what you may encounter them in naturally the wild. And Richie - There will be a RFUK 'phib meet down here, to be honest it will be better in the summer because then there'll be lots of breeding activity going on (or at least there usually is!). Apologies to all about the April meet, there has been circumstances that have been out of my control that had made this difficult to organise and arrange. But onwards....

'Well chuffed' with these little buggers
Cheers
Al


P.s Credit to Marc, they look outwardly in superb health, alert and very porky.


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## manda88

Alex M said:


> Well they've arrived - and dare I say it as a bloke - but they've got to be the cutest little animals I've ever come face to face with!. They're identical to those in the picture in my first post. As you would expect there's a massive difference in size between the males and females, so all looks good there. They are a territorial species, but I still think they'll be lost in the huge tank that I've set up. I think I've got the sandy soil mix right, I used alot of soil from the ants nests as it was quite loose and reddish and looks in it's make up very similar to what you may encounter them in naturally the wild. And Richie - *There will be a RFUK 'phib meet down here*, to be honest it will be better in the summer because then there'll be lots of breeding activity going on (or at least there usually is!). Apologies to all about the April meet, there has been circumstances that have been out of my control that had made this difficult to organise and arrange. But onwards....
> 
> 'Well chuffed' with these little buggers
> Cheers
> Al
> 
> 
> P.s Credit to Marc, they look outwardly in superb health, alert and very porky.


 
Yaaaaaaay! *invites myself* :whistling2:


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## RhianB87

They look so cute!:flrt:

Their faces look like they have been squished! 

A 'phib meet would be good. Would be nice to properly meet everyone


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## Ron Magpie

FallenAngel said:


> They look so cute!:flrt:
> 
> Their faces look like they have been squished!
> 
> *A 'phib meet would be good. Would be nice to properly meet everyone*


Definitely!:2thumb:


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## berksmike

They been pretty active Alex or did they bury down?


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## Alex M

Hi 'Manda and Sarah,

I'm going to pick some dates I can stick to, and see what you all think - and of course you're both invited!. And yes Sarah, it's quite difficult not to look at them without laughing really, their faces coupled with their extremely rotund appearance certainly have the wow factor for the ladies who like a cute animal. Even one of my neighbours who's just had a quick peek has said they've never seen anything quite like them, like little mogwai's in some ways. They do not appear overly nervous and are happy to lap up some species of English red ant in front of me, which they appear to relish. I reckon the largest are around just over 4.5cms, the very smallest being just under 2cms - as I've said the males are tiny compared to the females. Will take some pics and put them on Facebook later, if anyone has the patience to transfer them over here then they'll be welcome to!.

Cheers
Al


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## manda88

*Rhian :lol2:


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## Alex M

berksmike said:


> They been pretty active Alex or did they bury down?


And yourself and Ron are of course invited 

Yep, they've hidden away now but most of them stayed at the surface when introduced and tackled the ants without any fear of my presence, some did dig themselves under almost immediately. I have provided a warm spot unusually in the middle of the enclosure that is close to a south facing window and is given excellent airflow and UV - Heating is thermostatically controlled so all should be fine there, and the lid is mesh so should only get so warm in the substrata. Anyway, the reason for this is that on the left hand quarter is humid and is warm room temperature, next up is warmth and humidity, then warmth and a dry, then finally just warm room temp but bone dry. I know it's not always accurate as 'phibs will often congregate where it's most humid given the chance, but should the vast majority inhabit one particular area then it will hopefully give me a good idea of preferred conditions - though I reckon they'll prefer the warm dry room temp substrata generally, at least till we have this weekends predicted thunder storms then I will dampen the substrata in the evenings should the males start calling, which would seem likely logically thinking.

Cheers
Al


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## Alex M

manda88 said:


> *Rhian :lol2:


Sorry Maureen, I always get peoples names mixed up - RHIAN, apologies!


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## berksmike

Still very jealous - they are very cute looking lol


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## soundstounite

Stoked they are with ya,
stoked they look good
stoked about the meet(can we try an come ...purdy please:lol2
now c'mon mate do the do with em:whip:
Seriously Al all didgits crossed,
PS oh and yeah I did get them mixed up(DUMMY i am) and she is still hanging on to them eggs!!
belucky bro
Stu


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## Alex M

Mike, if you want some Breviceps, well check your PM's 

Stu - I hope so pal, but as I say, my main priority is to maintain them correctly first of all, breeding them would be great and I hope to, and if it happens it happens. Good luck with those mysties - I'm sure they'll surprise you before long fella, and you'll be able to put to good use the many small isopods etc bred at the now renowned 'Shaz's Springtail Farm'. As for the 'phib meet, of course you're welcome mate. For obvious reasons, I won't be inviting randomners from here that I have no idea about, but if they've got (good) history on here and have sound character then they are welcome. What I don't want is one of the very few idiots that turns up on here occasionally (other than myself) where I'd feel I'd have to have a stock take after the 'event'. Hope that doesn't sound mean, but you know what I mean.

Breviceps are out and about feeding now, I've always liked the way most Microhylids catch their prey and these are no different. It will be interesting to see how these possible thunder storms coming up affect them... Will update as and when.

Cheers
Al


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## richie.b

Glad you got them ok Al and theyre settling in, if you need any red ants let me know got loads in the garden

good news about the get together ill be there, if im not one of those randomers :whistling2f course

be lucky mate

cheers
Richie


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## Alex M

richie.b said:


> Glad you got them ok Al and theyre settling in, if you need any red ants let me know got loads in the garden
> 
> good news about the get together ill be there, if im not one of those randomers :whistling2f course
> 
> be lucky mate
> 
> cheers
> Richie


You are one of the randomners - but we'll make an exception this time :lol:

Got a good supply of ants, but thanks for the offer mate, tis appreciated. I was trying to find the 'queen' in the nest but despite looking in many, the workers etc seem to have her well protected, and I could not locate one. Won't give up the search though because I want to set up a couple of ant colonies with tubes leading into the Breviceps enclosure to supply enough to make up at least part of their diet. Not saying it's essential, but I have my suspicions that it maybe a factor in why they're apparently hard to keep alive in captivity. Just got to fine tune the seasons and hopefully all will be well - They're out and about as we 'speak' and are eating for S.Africa. One thing I have discovered is because of their unusually textured skin, kitchen roll (which they were packed in) adheres to them like nothing on earth - So best avoided I reckon if anyone wants to use this as a quarantine 'substrata', not that it's good for that purpose being fossorial by nature.

Cheers
Al


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## REDDEV1L

Glad they're doing well for ya so far Alex.
Great that they're eating uk ants too...I tried with my b.bufo when they were tiny but they weren't having any of it.
Looks like they're out and about more than my kaloula...well the male anyway...
Oh and thanks for help with those btw, within mins of giving them soil they both backed into it...I see the fem every night without fail, and she eats like a pig, but the male is STILL buried...maybe he doesn't like me :lol2:


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## RhianB87

Alex M said:


> Hi 'Manda and Sarah,
> 
> I'm going to pick some dates I can stick to, and see what you all think - and of course you're both invited!. And yes Sarah, it's quite difficult not to look at them without laughing really, their faces coupled with their extremely rotund appearance certainly have the wow factor for the ladies who like a cute animal. Even one of my neighbours who's just had a quick peek has said they've never seen anything quite like them, like little mogwai's in some ways. They do not appear overly nervous and are happy to lap up some species of English red ant in front of me, which they appear to relish. I reckon the largest are around just over 4.5cms, the very smallest being just under 2cms - as I've said the males are tiny compared to the females. Will take some pics and put them on Facebook later, if anyone has the patience to transfer them over here then they'll be welcome to!.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


Lol Sarah is close enough...kind of..:whistling2:

Even my frog hating boyfriend said these were cute! 

I cant believe how little they are, will they get much bigger?

And Yay to being allowed to come


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Mike, if you want some Breviceps, well check your PM's
> 
> Stu - I hope so pal, but as I say, my main priority is to maintain them correctly first of all, breeding them would be great and I hope to, and if it happens it happens. Good luck with those mysties - I'm sure they'll surprise you before long fella, and you'll be able to put to good use the many small isopods etc bred at the now renowned 'Shaz's Springtail Farm'. As for the 'phib meet, of course you're welcome mate. For obvious reasons, I won't be inviting randomners from here that I have no idea about, but if they've got (good) history on here and have sound character then they are welcome. What I don't want is one of the very few idiots that turns up on here occasionally (other than myself) where I'd feel I'd have to have a stock take after the 'event'. Hope that doesn't sound mean, but you know what I mean.
> 
> Breviceps are out and about feeding now, I've always liked the way most Microhylids catch their prey and these are no different. It will be interesting to see how these possible thunder storms coming up affect them... Will update as and when.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


 Ha thankyou kind sir,ha silly sod Shaz's renouned springtail farm..lmao.Mysties making us think mate all good well I think so big lass moving around and hunting,and i think she wants the other fella,there is sommit going on...but not eggs...er yet!!be lucky bro,oh Al whats fossorial?
Stu


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## Ron Magpie

soundstounite said:


> Ha thankyou kind sir,ha silly sod Shaz's renouned springtail farm..lmao.Mysties making us think mate all good well I think so big lass moving around and hunting,and i think she wants the other fella,there is sommit going on...but not eggs...er yet!!be lucky bro,oh Al whats fossorial?
> Stu


It means a tendancy to burrow/live underground.


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## Alex M

A couple of pics the other day that I put on Facebook. They are amazing little things, and have proven to be fascinating to keep so far. I've already discovered some interesting little things about them, and am taking constant if somewhat detailed notes about them. I take notes of most of my amphibians/reptiles, I find it helpful when I want to reference things from previous seasons.




http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/members/alex-m-albums-my-pictures-picture138192-breviceps.jpg



http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/members/alex-m-albums-my-pictures-picture138191-breviceps.jpg



Cheers
Al


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## soundstounite

blummin noctunal guys us drummers,(oh cheers ron).Al they are just super cute...just give me a few of the parameters your notes take mate,just a general overview. Better get some shut eye:mf_dribble: i guess.
Are ya good mate,
all cool here

stu


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## Alex M

Well, in the past hour or so we've had a thunder storm rolling in here in South Dorset and we have some slight action going on in the enclosure - I have been yet to see any females on the surface at night but this has all changed tonight!  

And Stu, yep!, I'm a night creature too, not sure whether it's an adaption to playing late night gigs etc or staying up to watch the majority of my 'phibs - or maybe both?. As for the notes, I take all the obvious notes you may think of, but it's the general observational/behavioural notes that are of most interest to me, in this case I have a series of digital thermometers set at different levels below the substrata and am monitoring exactly what temp they prefer and I am starting to notice a pattern already. These really are the most fascinating little amphibians, and the fact that I'm at home on a Friday night studying them now rather than in a pub, is surely testament to that!

Hope you well pal 
Cheers
Al


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## Alex M

Last night there was a hive of activity in the enclosure, and things have changed within their behaviour. Unfortunately I did not hear any calling but as I was out during the main thunderstorm there is a possibility I missed some vocalisation. Anyway, normally, they're hidden from view but appear to be at their most active at sunrise into the earlier part of midmorning. Overnight, some of the males had opened their tunnels up at the edge of the grassy tussocks and are now sat in the entrance of their individual burrows peering out. I have not seen this behaviour in my specimens before, and is certainly consistent with early breeding behaviour as they await the rains and start calling for the females attention. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams believe I could breed these, and I still don't expect to really, but I'm certainly happy with how things are going - We have more thunderstorms expected over the next 3 days so I will keep tweaking temperature etc (all thermostatically controlled) to mimic all the information I can find on the S.African climate and it's seasons. 

Cheers
Al


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## soundstounite

Alex M said:


> Last night there was a hive of activity in the enclosure, and things have changed within their behaviour. Unfortunately I did not hear any calling but as I was out during the main thunderstorm there is a possibility I missed some vocalisation. Anyway, normally, they're hidden from view but appear to be at their most active at sunrise into the earlier part of midmorning. Overnight, some of the males had opened their tunnels up at the edge of the grassy tussocks and are now sat in the entrance of their individual burrows peering out. I have not seen this behaviour in my specimens before, and is certainly consistent with early breeding behaviour as they await the rains and start calling for the females attention. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams believe I could breed these, and I still don't expect to really, but I'm certainly happy with how things are going - We have more thunderstorms expected over the next 3 days so I will keep tweaking temperature etc (all thermostatically controlled) to mimic all the information I can find on the S.African climate and it's seasons.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


 You might not think "in your wildest dreams mate" but we have every faith in you,i doubt there are many that could give them a better shot at this than yourself,and not saying that to be nice just i believe it!! Uterly fascinating. Al,keep hiting us with the detail too mate, loving it.
Thanks for the words earlier about your notes too, food for thought.yeah I'm sure the gigs have something to do with our nocturnal habits coupled with always seem more creative at night.(sorry off again).Gotta play foam in a mo. lets hope i can still see later:blush:
be lucky dude especially with these
Stu


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> You might not think "in your wildest dreams mate" but we have every faith in you,i doubt there are many that could give them a better shot at this than yourself,and not saying that to be nice just i believe it!! Uterly fascinating. Al,keep hiting us with the detail too mate, loving it.
> Thanks for the words earlier about your notes too, food for thought.yeah I'm sure the gigs have something to do with our nocturnal habits coupled with always seem more creative at night.(sorry off again).Gotta play foam in a mo. lets hope i can still see later:blush:
> be lucky dude especially with these
> Stu


Hi Stu,

I will respond properly later tonight, with hopefully more information if these thunder storms that are due this afternoon come to fruition - I have to pop out now to see to an emergency that has come up, alot of drama this week and I'm not into soaps 

Thanks for the kind words mate,
Take care,
Cheers
Al


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## Ron Magpie

This is really fascinating. Any chance of current pics, Al? I'd really like to see the set-up you decided on.


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## richie.b

Alex M said:


> Last night there was a hive of activity in the enclosure, and things have changed within their behaviour. Unfortunately I did not hear any calling but as I was out during the main thunderstorm there is a possibility I missed some vocalisation. Anyway, normally, they're hidden from view but appear to be at their most active at sunrise into the earlier part of midmorning. Overnight, some of the males had opened their tunnels up at the edge of the grassy tussocks and are now sat in the entrance of their individual burrows peering out. I have not seen this behaviour in my specimens before, and is certainly consistent with early breeding behaviour as they await the rains and start calling for the females attention. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams believe I could breed these, and I still don't expect to really, but I'm certainly happy with how things are going - We have more thunderstorms expected over the next 3 days so I will keep tweaking temperature etc (all thermostatically controlled) to mimic all the information I can find on the S.African climate and it's seasons.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


Al why dont you just play the drums next to them and chuck buckets of water over them that should do it, well thats what it was like here last night :2thumb:

And Rons right a picture of the setup would be interesting

cheers
Richie


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## soundstounite

Ron Magpie said:


> This is really fascinating. Any chance of current pics, Al? I'd really like to see the set-up you decided on.


 Great shout Ron,oh hell Richie we got nothing,we sooooo need rain,the luck of the welsh eh? The're from africa...drums might work:lol2:
Stu


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## richie.b

soundstounite said:


> Great shout Ron,oh hell Richie we got nothing,we sooooo need rain,the luck of the welsh eh? The're from africa...drums might work:lol2:
> Stu


This is why our leeks are so big Stu :whistling2:


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## soundstounite

richie.b said:


> This is why our leeks are so big Stu :whistling2:


 yeah I know mate,am sure part of me family hails from Wales,Griffiths...couldn't be anywhere else really, we have a similar problem with our leek it just don't need so much water....hmmm also :whistling2::bash::mf_dribble::lol2:....... well thats 2 threads sabotaged today:lol2:...ever get the feeling what goes around......
Al just serious for a mo. hope nothing too bad...drama wise!!!
Stu


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## Alex M

Hello Ron/Richie/Stu,

I will upload some pictures for you all shortly - Don't wish to give too much away as I hope to be the first person to breed these in captivity (as far as I know anyway), know that sounds mean but that's just the way it is in the cutthroat world of amphibian breeding, I'll inbox them to you haha

Cheers me old muckers
Al


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## berksmike

Fingers crossed mate - got pipped to the post with that other group :sad:


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## Alex M

Just give me a few mins and I should have the pictures on here...


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## soundstounite

:2thumb: cut throat thats us LMAO,don't worry kiddo won't say nuffin to no one but (i guess i speak for the other 2 too) its truely enthralling. I seriously don't think you have much to worry about though mate,can't be many chucking at this what you are:notworthy:. although I understand where your comming from,I bred the first magpie call ducks intentionally in this country, in a different lifetime,did it by genetics, and playing a big hunch. Others whom did similar have breeds named after them,Appleyard...Cambell... ha but nobody knows about this well apart from you and a couple or 3 phibsters. It will take some time to get me head around all this darty stuff:bash: but one day mate
still all the luck with this though,I still am not convinced its an if,,,its just WHEN 
ha bring it on
Stu


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> :2thumb: cut throat thats us LMAO,don't worry kiddo won't say nuffin to no one but (i guess i speak for the other 2 too) its truely enthralling. I seriously don't think you have much to worry about though mate,can't be many chucking at this what you are:notworthy:. although I understand where your comming from,I bred the first magpie call ducks intentionally in this country, in a different lifetime,did it by genetics, and playing a big hunch. Others whom did similar have breeds named after them,Appleyard...Cambell... ha but nobody knows about this well apart from you and a couple or 3 phibsters. It will take some time to get me head around all this darty stuff:bash: but one day mate
> still all the luck with this though,I still am not convinced its an if,,,its just WHEN
> ha bring it on
> Stu


 
Hi mate,

Just tried to upload some pics - Can't get them on here anyway! Not doing anythng different to the other day? *scratches head*


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## Alex M

soundstounite said:


> :2thumb: cut throat thats us LMAO,don't worry kiddo won't say nuffin to no one but (i guess i speak for the other 2 too) its truely enthralling. I seriously don't think you have much to worry about though mate,can't be many chucking at this what you are:notworthy:. although I understand where your comming from,I bred the first magpie call ducks intentionally in this country, in a different lifetime,did it by genetics, and playing a big hunch. Others whom did similar have breeds named after them,Appleyard...Cambell... ha but nobody knows about this well apart from you and a couple or 3 phibsters. It will take some time to get me head around all this darty stuff:bash: but one day mate
> still all the luck with this though,I still am not convinced its an if,,,its just WHEN
> ha bring it on
> Stu


 
I love ducks and wildfowl, Stu. My best ever 'pet' animal was a Guinea fowl, I hatched it from an egg for a bet - Ended up becoming my best companion, had to give him up when I got a job for a horrible American based chain of pet stores and moved away. Big mistake!. But yeah, kudos to you with your magpie ducks mate, that's great - We're in the company of a duck legend on here then?!. 

Back to the topic(ish!) - I know this sounds selfish but whereas I'd be happy to share any experiences and information I gain maintaining these adspersus with all you RFUK regulars, the thing that nags me is the people that probably read this section every day (the 'lurkers'), and whom never contribute so much as a bean to threads like this and are just here to er spawn off others hard work, so it does annoy me I'm afraid. So I figure I will post 'enough' on here, but if people want further information on here I can always PM the likes of yourself, Ron, Richie, Mike etc with the stuff I don't want to share with the lazy lurkers whom only use this forum to flog stuff on the classifieds. Hope it doesn't sound too mean, but in the words of Vicky Pollard... 'Bovvered'. Always happy to share with all you other good folks whom put the effort in on RFUK and make the 'phib section what it is.

Cheers
Al


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## Ron Magpie

Alex M said:


> I love ducks and wildfowl, Stu. My best ever 'pet' animal was a Guinea fowl, I hatched it from an egg for a bet - Ended up becoming my best companion, had to give him up when I got a job for a horrible American based chain of pet stores and moved away. Big mistake!. But yeah, kudos to you with your magpie ducks mate, that's great - We're in the company of a duck legend on here then?!.
> 
> Back to the topic(ish!) - I know this sounds selfish but whereas I'd be happy to share any experiences and information I gain maintaining these adspersus with all you RFUK regulars, the thing that nags me is the people that probably read this section every day (the 'lurkers'), and whom never contribute so much as a bean to threads like this and are just here to er spawn off others hard work, so it does annoy me I'm afraid. So I figure I will post 'enough' on here, but if people want further information on here I can always PM the likes of yourself, Ron, Richie, Mike etc with the stuff I don't want to share with the lazy lurkers whom only use this forum to flog stuff on the classifieds. Hope it doesn't sound too mean, but in the words of Vicky Pollard... 'Bovvered'. Always happy to share with all you other good folks whom put the effort in on RFUK and make the 'phib section what it is.
> 
> Cheers
> Al


The downside of the Imformation Age, lol. Well, I'm happy to be part of your secret club, as and when :whistling2:


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## soundstounite

Ha not legend just done a few birds (slight understatement:lol2: oh and god how i miss my Rob!!!!!!)
back to this..... I guess me long old room thread paints an accurate pic of what your saying though mate sommit like 35000 hits 650 replys,says it all really, sometimes you just want someone to say WTF did you do that for, just to know that someone is getting sommit out of it,whether that be good or bad. But there are shy guys out there whom don't want to be visable, or feel they would be riddiculed by asking and so stay stum. I guess even guys like me whom are not endowed with great self confidence,have to have a bit of self belief to post when they might fall flat on their face (or no ego of course ).The reality is: tis about the phibs,and one day someone will read the nonsense and their phibs will get the rewards of our successes and our screw ups but I hear ya mate,it might just be that old chesnut of givers and takers too
Am happy to be part of this old rep phib section too though, where some good souls try to educate each other:bash: and not too many batterings go on:lol2:
ha and its still WHEN Alex not if,you breed these
Stu
Ps wish I could help with the hows and whys of computer land,but i get exactly the same probs,as Toyah said its a ......:lol2:


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## richie.b

I totally understand where youre coming from Al, just keep us informed how its going

cheers
Richie


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## firemango

*Information*

Looking into buying a pair. Noticed this is an older forum. Are you still breeding Breviceps? PM if interested.


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## Ron Magpie

firemango said:


> Looking into buying a pair. Noticed this is an older forum. Are you still breeding Breviceps? PM if interested.


 We almost never see Alex on here thse days, sadly.


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## ronnyjodes

Although I'm glad this got bumped as whenever anybody mentions rainfrogs Alex's name is always the first to come up, this way if it's kept bumped it might be a bit easier folk interested in keeping them to find.


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