# No point Hamm/Houten 2009?



## Caz (May 24, 2007)

With the pound certain to drop to £1 = 90 cents by January 09 will anyone bother going to the EU shows next year unless you're selling?
Big difference from a couple of years ago when the exchange rate 
was £1 = E1.40!

??


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

i wouldnt go anyway.. i hate shows.. but even if i did go id now definately be reconsidering the cost..

so unless i was desperate beyond belief for a certain rare species and didnt mind the extra cost and travel then id not go for a reptile i could gte here


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

Maybe it'll result in people buying animals from European shows because they're good examples of different bloodlines to add diversity to breeding projects, because they're unusual animals that can't be bought elsewhere, because they really want to own them - rather than impulse buying because they're cheap and can be resold at a profit in the UK later on.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

toyah said:


> Maybe it'll result in people buying animals from European shows because they're good examples of different bloodlines to add diversity to breeding projects, because they're unusual animals that can't be bought elsewhere, because they really want to own them - rather than impulse buying because they're cheap and can be resold at a profit in the UK later on.


And make British breeders a 'better' option for buyers including European ones.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Fixx said:


> And make British breeders a 'better' option for buyers including European ones.


 
interesting point...


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

The point of Hamm/Houten isn't just to get a cheap bargain. I have just got back from Hamm and even at 1.1E to the pound, I still found many things considerabley cheaper than UK shows, or UK wholesale lists. However, we went mostly because we could get animals easier from the USA - not cheaper, but high quality, good names, animals we simply could not find in the UK at twice the price if at all. We went to catch up with our contacts and see who's breeding what and what availbility is, to look at some of the rarer things etc. etc.

Yeah, of course the £ will affect the masses who hop on a bus to Hamm to pick up some cheapies, but for serious people who are looking to meet and talk to some of the best and biggest herpetological experts and breeders in the EU and some from the states, I still think it will have a great appeal 

As a % of people who go there, I doubt the UK makes up a massive amount so I doubt it will affect the shows at all.


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

prices werent that good cos of the euro exchange but there were still a few bargains to be had, 4 bell albinos for €90 with a bit of haggling, P.metallica juvs for €45 euros and a few other bits, we also had 160 corns milks and kings, from the USA plus Orders from Ron Tramper and Steve Sykes, All in all we were more than happy with the day


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Athravan said:


> The point of Hamm/Houten isn't just to get a cheap bargain. I have just got back from Hamm and even at 1.1E to the pound, I still found many things considerabley cheaper than UK shows, or UK wholesale lists. However, we went mostly because we could get animals easier from the USA - not cheaper, but high quality, good names, animals we simply could not find in the UK at twice the price if at all. We went to catch up with our contacts and see who's breeding what and what availbility is, to look at some of the rarer things etc. etc.
> 
> Yeah, of course the £ will affect the masses who hop on a bus to Hamm to pick up some cheapies, but for serious people who are looking to meet and talk to some of the best and biggest herpetological experts and breeders in the EU and some from the states, I still think it will have a great appeal
> 
> As a % of people who go there, I doubt the UK makes up a massive amount so I doubt it will affect the shows at all.


 


im not in anyway saying thats why id go.. i wouldnt.. ive said the same thing for years for varying reasons not least personal eye witness reports from shows..

but some may have considered going for price cuts or rarity... the ones considering it for price comparisons as this is what i think the thread was about... will now be reconsidering i imagine


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

I was really talking about the expence of the whole trip rather than 'bargain' animals - I was wondering who, in general, would be put off.


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## Alex27 (Jul 26, 2008)

i was gonna go to get a crimbo present but then my dad got me a bumblebee instead so we didnt and with the exchange rates i doubt we will next year


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

Ive never been to Hamm, though I would love to, for several reasons including, the variety of animals available, the opportunity to meet some very knowledgable people, the fact I'll see more than corns, leos and royals(lol), it'd get me away from the bloody shop for a weekend.
Reading this thread, has made me realise that I would go next year(should the opportunity arise) as I'd never even considered the exchange rate as a reason to go! Ignorance is bliss I guess:2thumb:


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## Sephiroth (May 1, 2007)

*Orchid mantids*

Still quite alot of bargains to be had :2thumb:

Got me two pairs of Hymenopus Coronatus for 40 euros! :flrt:


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## Plutino (Aug 5, 2007)

pastelpythons27 said:


> i was gonna go to get a crimbo present but then my dad got me a bumblebee instead so we didnt and with the exchange rates i doubt we will next year


I don't think bumblebees have dropped in the EU as much as in the UK. I didn't see any under 1k anyway, though I wasn't really looking, and I'm sure you could have haggled it down anyway. I thought it was a great trip, and really enjoyed some of the conversations I had with some dutch breeders, especially the one in houten who bred BTS's. It's always interesting to hear how people do things in other countries, especially successful breeders. As with any show there were some things you'd rather not see, and some people who you'd not want to buy from, but I think on the whole it was good. I think I enjoyed houten more than hamm this year as well. (The myth of 5 euro corn snakes was true btw ) The Dutch just seemed friendlier, and also more willing to talk. Managed to haggle with someone who didn't speak a word of English by typing on his calculator, that was kinda funny. Managed to have a sort of conversation with hand gestures as well. By the end of the shows I was feeling rather selfish for not learning a single bit of any other language, while most at the show spoke at least two languages, even if one of them wasn't English.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

tbh i couldnt sit on a bus for that length of time, so i would need to fly. i wouldnt buy, because i have my own trusted sources in the uk. so i would only be going to look. whether i would be willing to get all upset if i saw any cruelty is another matter. no i wouldnt, so i just wouldnt go at all anyway.
i definately wouldnt buy there, bacause im not willing to put my own reps at risk by introducing other reps from unknown sources, even after QT. i always buy from breeders in this country.


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## bradders (Oct 23, 2008)

if you can get what you want in the uk from reliable and trusted breeders who aren't ripping the guts out of you that's fine
the truth is there is still a lot of morphs not produced in the uk
the european shows are a good source to obtain these from the big european and american breeders
the exchange rate is secondary to the need
bit like a packet of ****
i definately was gonna pack in when they hit £1 a pack
now i'm paying nearly £6 a pack
the truth of the matter is i am addicted to nicotine and will pay whatever to feed my habit.................same with my reps
cliff
:bash::2thumb:: victory:


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

depends what you want really, the 'cost' of getting there if you drive a car doesnt really change - hotel still same, petrol 'slightly' the same, tunnel the same, so add on a tenner a head basically..in regards to the animals, there are a lot of lampropeltis morphs we look for in hamm/eu in general because they are a) not bred over here and b) the blood lines are a bit pants, and we can find much better specimens abroad, and arrange to buy/pick up at the show..in terms of other animals in our collections, as said before, we've found a trusted,quality breeder of royals (SW) so from now on we'll go via him for royal morphs - with those that have a tendancy to be a tad awkward,id rather buy from a 100%source,than take the risk to save a few quid abroad tbh...


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## heather08 (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi
We went to `Houten`, (Holland) this year,our first euro. show.I was very surprised how DEAR MOST THINGS WERE!!! .We had £1500 with us,and couldn,t find anything that we were interested in,we could have bought cheaper,and better quality snakes here in the U.K.
There was also a large amount of `Rubbish`for sale,(ill looking ,damaged,dirty snakes there!!!)
We wil prob. go again,just to see what,s there,and if anything better, (to be honest,couldn,t be any worse!!!)
Heather


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

i love the show at hamm so much anyway so i'd go just for that. I never really go for the bargains, more for the rare...


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## capester (Oct 18, 2007)

We went to Houten in December 07. I was amazed at how cheap things were. On the whole it was good quality and I didn't see anything that suggested cruelty. the people were friendly and you could actually move without banging into each other or getting shoved around (Rodbaston anyone?) and it wasnt 40 degrees in there either! all in all it was a far better experience and I'll definately be going again. Even if the Euro gets to the same as the pound (1 for 1) it was still cheaper than buying inbred stock from over here. Anyone know the dates for next year?


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## stevemartin (Nov 16, 2007)

As someone in the euro-zone (Ireland) I can tell you that already I know a lot more people who are going on the ferry to Liverpool/Holyhead and visiting UK reptile shops, and even ordering off UK breeders to collect at shows, because up to this month, 90% of UK bred stock was slightly pricey, but that coupled with the horrendous exchange rate meant that people here were avoiding UK and going direct to breeders in Hamm/Houten, so this turn-around might just open more doors for UK breeders, in a round about way, it makes you're stock more appealing and more competitive. That said, by time autumn shows come around again the pound could be fighting fit again!!


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## byglady (Jun 9, 2007)

Although the exchange rate is horrendous at the moment, we would always consider going not only to have tables but to meet up with foreign breeders. For us it is an opportunity to catch up with old friends and find out any new exciting morphs that may be in the pipeline. 

With the exchange rate being so bad it could end up with more foreign breeders coming to the UK shows and having tables, which could be a very good thing.

Having been to Hamm both as a seller and as a customer, I do not think that the prices at the last 2 shows have been particularly cheaper than the british shows, however there does seem to be more variety at the foreign shows. This could change with more foreign breeders coming to the british shows.


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

i think thats the reason most people go, apart from all the common crap you find there like royals and leopard morphs. there is no way that you find half the stuff over hear unless someone brings it back from hamm. half the stuff is too risky for uk wholesalers to buy!


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

capester said:


> We went to Houten in December 07. I was amazed at how cheap things were. On the whole it was good quality and I didn't see anything that suggested cruelty. the people were friendly and you could actually move without banging into each other or getting shoved around (Rodbaston anyone?) and it wasnt 40 degrees in there either! all in all it was a far better experience and I'll definately be going again. Even if the Euro gets to the same as the pound (1 for 1) it was still cheaper than buying inbred stock from over here. Anyone know the dates for next year?


so because a breeder has a table at hamm (several UK breeders sell at hamm BTW, who NEVER bother attending UK shows) their stock is less inbred than mine??Yeah right.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

stevemartin said:


> As someone in the euro-zone (Ireland) I can tell you that already I know a lot more people who are going on the ferry to Liverpool/Holyhead and visiting UK reptile shops, and even ordering off UK breeders to collect at shows, because up to this month, 90% of UK bred stock was slightly pricey, but that coupled with the horrendous exchange rate meant that people here were avoiding UK and going direct to breeders in Hamm/Houten, so this turn-around might just open more doors for UK breeders, in a round about way, it makes you're stock more appealing and more competitive. That said, *by time autumn shows come around again the pound could be fighting fit again!!*


:lol2::lol2::bash::lol2::lol2:


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