# Too much uv?



## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

There's loads of great info on here includung the care sheets all geared for what is good for our beardies but can they have too much of a good thing.

What is your lighting/heating regime?

06:00hr Both spot and uv tube (42 inch) come on together. There is a basking area and a branch/root thing that allows our beardie to get within 4 to 5 inches of the uv tube.

last feed is around 18:00hr and an hour and a half to two hours later she settles down to sleep. Anywhere between 21:00 and 22:00hr I switch off heat/light/uv. That's about 15 hours of uv, is this too much. Should I be turning off the uv an hour or two before the spot?

I have fitted a heat mat under the cushion floor then covered with stones ect so she cannot lay directley on to the floor but it maintains the viv's temps at 65f over night. This comes on at 12 midnight and goes off at 05:30hr 30 minutes before I get up for work and it all starts again.

Is this ok or does it need fine tuning?


Thanks for reading and for any replies...:2thumb:


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## manuetaaz (Aug 23, 2010)

Don't know the answer but curious to know as I have been searching about it and the only thing I have found is "not enough UV" never "too much UV" :2thumb:


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

Georges lights come on at 7 in the morning, he is fed at 8 and then again at 6 his lights go off at 9. Nothing for him over night as the house never drops below 60F, does your heat mat have a thermostat? you should always be caeful as they can get burnt on their bellies as they cant feel the heat from their underside. I guess you have a stat though.


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> Georges lights come on at 7 in the morning, he is fed at 8 and then again at 6 his lights go off at 9. Nothing for him over night as the house never drops below 60F, does your heat mat have a thermostat? you should always be caeful as they can get burnt on their bellies as they cant feel the heat from their underside. I guess you have a stat though.


No stat but she can not lay directly on to the cushion flooring area where the mat is beneath because I've covered it with rocks, stones, plants etc.

Tested outside the viv for 24 hours with a piece of the flooring with rocks and stuff layed on it. 24 hours solid and it was still just warm to the touch. She cannot lay directly on to the area that the heat mat covers, hope people feel this is ok. 

Sats are expensive, not that I can't or won't buy one but all seems to be working well without any at the moment, 4 weeks now. I have 3 fixed temp gauges in the viv and a mobile one which I move around, sometimes I lay it at the side of our beardie to see what the temps are where she likes to chill out.

House is warm over night so the mat is just a precaution, I only plug in the timer if the forecast is for below 10c overnight, outside...

:2thumb:windy


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

You really dont need heat at night. House temps will rarely fall below 16 c which is the recommended night temp. 

Just a little word of caution unstated mats can cause fires they can get extremely hot. I am really not a fan of them for beardies.

Liz


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

I agree, I dont think that it is necessary and i wouldnt run the risk, but i suppose some could say im over cautious :blush:
If you think outside temps are 10 then its unlikely your house will ever become that cold- plus im sure you would put your heating on and so the temp would be OK for your beardie. 

Its just a suggestion and its up to you at the end of the day but I would deffo get a stat becasue you dont want a burnt beardie


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## darrengodzilla (Sep 30, 2009)

Does anyone have an answer about the too much UV? I put a similar question on here with regards to how long a mega ray should be on during the day, and haven't really had a straight answer? I've always had it on 10 hrs, but was recently told this is too much, and the dragon will be getting too much UV, and should only have it on for 6 hours? 6 hours doesn't seem very australian to me?
Sorry if i've hijacked the thread a bit.


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

A good rule of thumb is to give them our daylight hours so in the height of summer they can be on 12-14 hours a day and less in the winter.

So currently the lights come on at 0730 and go off at 1800. Airing on the side of caution you can give them more. Personally my beardie brumates every year so i give her shorter daylight hours until she is fast aslep in a wooden box at the back of a cool cupboard for a few months and i have to start the whole process again the following year :smile:


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> I agree, I dont think that it is necessary and i wouldnt run the risk, but i suppose some could say im over cautious :blush:
> If you think outside temps are 10 then its unlikely your house will ever become that cold- plus im sure you would put your heating on and so the temp would be OK for your beardie.
> 
> Its just a suggestion and its up to you at the end of the day but I would deffo get a stat becasue you dont want a burnt beardie


Yep, I reckon you're the cautious type for sure...but there's nothing wrong with that.

We don't have the heating on much at home even in the depth of winter, maybe on the front room and the kitchen, oh and the main bathroom but thats it all other rooms including bedrooms stay cool to cold as we all seem to like it that way.

I'll be sure to keep an eye on the mat and limit it's use, there is a smoke detector fitted above the viv because of all the heat/light electrics etc that would go off in the likleyhood of the mat starting to smoulder and having kids in the house for the last 17 years has honed my getting out of bed and down stairs in 10 seconds skills to a fine edge.

Happy now...:whistling2::2thumb:

windy


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

Aunty_Lizard said:


> You really dont need heat at night. House temps will rarely fall below 16 c which is the recommended night temp.
> 
> We live in a very flat area which to be fair isn't too bad but when the cold sets in it seems to say for ages and you don't want to know about the wind....:whistling2: wistling down yer draws....
> 
> ...


My beardie cannot make contact with the mat or even the cushion floor substrate directly, I've covered the whole area of the mat with stones.

windy


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

With regard to UV i dont really know- what i do know is that not enough can effect them so its best to be safe than sorry- miss cautious again!!

With regard to following daylight hours thats what should be done like the previous poster says- george isnt old enough to brumnate and it encourages them to do so therefore he stays with the routine he has- i cant fool him though and he has slowed down a little! 

i dont think UV can be bad for them- i mean if you think about it it helps them to digest and produce D3- therefore break down calcium. I assume that you would turn it off to keep a cycle of day and night, with the heat lamp also being turned off. If we get too much UV we get skin cancer but their skin is adapted to avoid this. just using a common sense approach as I dont know :blush:


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

windymiller said:


> Happy now...:whistling2::2thumb:
> 
> windy


Always


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> Always


 
Good, don't worry I'll be looking after the little critter...

BTW why hasn't our skin adapted so we can all get a nice tan, after all we've been exposed to the suns rays now for over 65 million years, jeeze how long does it take....:whistling2:

windy


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## darrengodzilla (Sep 30, 2009)

Thinking about it, if the lizard is finding the heat/light too much, they can shy away from it. Mine has a bamboo root in the cool end he can tuck himself behind in the shade.


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

darrengodzilla said:


> Thinking about it, if the lizard is finding the heat/light too much, they can shy away from it. Mine has a bamboo root in the cool end he can tuck himself behind in the shade.


My beardie has places to hide/shelter if she's had enough sun but you know women they just never know when they've had enough..I mean who needs 50 hand bags, 50 pairs of....err I'll stop there before I get blasted...:gasp:

Where the hell is the "just kidding" smiley when you need it....:whistling2:

windy


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## CollaredLizardGal (May 17, 2010)

Answer to the UV question --- 

Thye can't really get too much UV - HOWEVER you must be careful that if they are getting large quantities of D3 in their calcium supplement that you reduce it and give them pure calcium as D3 overdose can be almost as bad for them as no UV. 
They definately MUST have UV but it is the D3 you need to be careful of. :2thumb:


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

windymiller said:


> My beardie cannot make contact with the mat or even the cushion floor substrate directly, I've covered the whole area of the mat with stones.
> 
> windy



You quoted me and said if they are dangerous and burst into flames they shouldnt be on sale.. If you read my reply correctly you would have seen it said UNSTATED MATS 

Liz


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

CollaredLizardGal said:


> Answer to the UV question ---
> 
> Thye can't really get too much UV - HOWEVER you must be careful that if they are getting large quantities of D3 in their calcium supplement that you reduce it and give them pure calcium as D3 overdose can be almost as bad for them as no UV.
> They definately MUST have UV but it is the D3 you need to be careful of. :2thumb:


Thank you. I'll check on the D3 just to be sure....:notworthy:


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

Aunty_Lizard said:


> You quoted me and said if they are dangerous and burst into flames they shouldnt be on sale.. If you read my reply correctly you would have seen it said UNSTATED MATS
> 
> Liz


I did read the reply, what I'm saying is; If there was a real danger of these things bursting in to flames the manufactures would surely have to pre fit stats or at least make it clear they can not be used without a stat because of the possibilty of fire..

Sorry if you feel I miss quoted you, it was not my intention.....:blush:

windy


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

*Intersting post from....*

Fixistan, a forum memeber, at least he was in 2008.

I've had my reservations about putting mats outside tanks and probes inside, with any mat, not just the Exo-terra brand, simply because there is very little heat control.

If you compare the heating of air in a tank with a kettle of water and look at the differences it's easy to see where you might get a problem.

With a kettle the heating element is in direct contact with the water and heats it directly with no intermediate materials being involved at all. The switch in the kettle turns off when the steam vapour is at the correct temperature, and on top of that the heating element itself should have a safety cutout trip (often called 'boil dry protection')

With a vivarium we are only relying on one temperature detector. The heat mat itself has no inbuilt protection from overheating ( a design failure as far as I'm concerned, all heat sources need protection ) and we often put it on the other side of material/s which conduct heat through to the vivarium. Only one safety device is used, unlike the kettle, which often has two.

The reason the probe didn't respond to the rise in temperature in time was because the probe isn't measuring the temperature of the mat. The probe is inside the vivarium, measuring the temperature of the air. The mat might glow bright red and the probe wouldn't register it for a couple of minutes in the case of a wooden vivarium.

What sounds to have happened in your case is that the mat has suffered an internal short, which caused a hotspot. This created a small chain reaction which caused the plastic to ignite which then heated the mat further. As mats get hotter they tend to draw less current, and become self regulating but only to a degree, once a fault has started the situation usually worsens quickly. The fuse for the mat probably blew long before the temperature in the vivarium reached a high level, but by this time the mat was already uncontrollable.

WHat mats should be fitted with, IMHO, is a thermal fusing system, something like this *| Electrical Installation | Fuses and Circuit Breakers | PCB Wire Ended Thermal Fuses | PCB Wire Ended *

It's a cheap part which can save a lot of trouble, because if the temperature reaches 73 degrees C in this case, the electrical control circuit is disconnected from the mat. Different temperatures are readily available too*.*

In almost all domestic and industrial heating system that I've encountered, there is always two levels of heat control. One is the main thermostat control and the other is the safety control, provided by often inexpensive but reliable parts, to protect against unforseen problems. The use of a mat and one probe always makes me feel cautious, having seen lots of examples of failed heating systems which had no form of secondary safety switching*.*

This problem sounds to be limited to only one manufacturer, but the principle of failure applies to all unregulated heating elements. 

Perhaps there is a need for an inexpenisve device which slips above heat mats and provides the sort of protection that is required.

Full thread here...:gasp: post 26 on page 3 is interesting

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/200066-caution-exoterra-heat-mats-read.html


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

If you feel how hot an unstated mat can get, then add the fact that you put something on top of it thats what causes fires and burns to your animals. I would never consider not using a mat or pulse stat with a heat mat. 

My beardies are kept in our Reptile room which is a converted part of our garage. I only put a heater in there in the winter months as it has no other heating in there. 

Liz


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

*Mmmm, this humble pie is nice....*



Aunty_Lizard said:


> If you feel how hot an unstated mat can get, then add the fact that you put something on top of it thats what causes fires and burns to your animals. I would never consider not using a mat or pulse stat with a heat mat.
> 
> My beardies are kept in our Reptile room which is a converted part of our garage. I only put a heater in there in the winter months as it has no other heating in there.
> 
> Liz


I have just re-posted a thread from 2008, after reading through it I will be removing the mat from my viv and fitting another type of heat source should i need it in winter...

So, I have removed my loose substrate and now my mat, surely I'm up for some brownie points...:whistling2:

Anyone want a heat mat?...:surrender:


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

Sorry but I did lol a little at that.. I was not having a go at you thats not my way all I was trying to do was let you know a possible out come. Thanks for listening and researching though.

Liz


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

Aunty_Lizard said:


> Sorry but I did lol a little at that.. I was not having a go at you thats not my way all I was trying to do was let you know a possible out come. Thanks for listening and researching though.
> 
> Liz


I have to admit it feels a little odd, I'm an MD running a company with 40 employees so I'm pretty much used to being in charge...:whistling2: but I come on here and keep getting told off....:lol2: I suppose one good thing is it's taken years off of me...I feel 12 again...:mf_dribble:

I should really know not to argue until I have all the facts...:blush:

windy


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

:lol2: Windy you make me laugh!


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> :lol2: Windy you make me laugh!


Wow, now we're looking after our pets and having a laugh...for a while there I thought having a laugh on this site was like using loose substrate....taboo [A *taboo* is a strong social prohibition (or ban) relating to any area of human activity or social custom that is sacred and forbidden based on moral judgment *...]:whistling2::naughty::naughty:*

:lol2::lol2:


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

Laughs are forbidden :devil: :lol2:

Im just happy to know MD's spend their time at work on here too :whistling2:
Im guessing its vital research for the benefit of your company though : victory:


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> Laughs are forbidden :devil: :lol2:
> 
> Im just happy to know MD's spend their time at work on here too :whistling2:
> Im guessing its vital research for the benefit of your company though : victory:


My brief is to make sure all is running well and if so I can pretty much do as I like...:2thumb: I'm a paid Director, I do not have shares in the business, both owners have retired and I run the company for them. A family business for over 75 years and I'm the first non family member to run the company. No pressure then...:censor:

Having said that I have a steady flow of people at my door seeking solutions to what seems like a never ending supply of problems so although it may look like I'm not busy I actually am...:whistling2:

I used to think that when/if I reached the lofty hight of director I'd have an easy (ish) life, not so, I stand in for managers, sales and the FD when he's on holiday. I dare not come in late, sneek off early and haven't had a day off ill for over 6 years.:whip::whip:

Fortunately I love my job:2thumb:

How about you lot? love or hate your place of work..??

I know the thread's off track but what the hell....:devil:

windy


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## AuntyLizard (Feb 7, 2007)

:lol2: I know how to have a laugh... christ I have too. I don't work due to being ill (I'm offically ill the drs said so) I had to give up work 4/5 years ago when I had a back op which went wrong and didnt work! I was then diagnoised with another illness called Fibromyalgia the only way to describe it is like an atheritis but of the soft tissue. So I am in pain 24/7 dont sleep, then sleep for hours lol and have no brain cells also known as fibro fog.

Liz


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

windymiller said:


> My brief is to make sure all is running well and if so I can pretty much do as I like...:2thumb: I'm a paid Director, I do not have shares in the business, both owners have retired and I run the company for them. A family business for over 75 years and I'm the first non family member to run the company. No pressure then...:censor:
> 
> Having said that I have a steady flow of people at my door seeking solutions to what seems like a never ending supply of problems so although it may look like I'm not busy I actually am...:whistling2:
> 
> ...


OK, OK you can try sound like your busy if you like :lol2: 

sounds like a lot of pressure being the non family member in charge!! Im sure all is running well.... and at the same time you can get knowledge of your beardie 

I love my job- i work in property developement, its hard work but worth it and id love to be an MD although i have a long way to go yet to being good enough for that!i would however sneek off early and come in late as my MD does! Its the priviledge you should have


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## lee young (Oct 14, 2009)

Just a quick note on the UV front, unless your dragon is literally lying on the tube all day assume that the UV is fine. Even the best tube with a reflector, used properly is still only equal to a cloudy day in the UK at best, they can take much higher UV levels.

If using an MVB or MHB then its a different story, and a UV meter is essential for proper setup, but I'm assuming you're using a tube...


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

lee young said:


> Just a quick note on the UV front, unless your dragon is literally lying on the tube all day assume that the UV is fine. Even the best tube with a reflector, used properly is still only equal to a cloudy day in the UK at best, they can take much higher UV levels.
> 
> If using an MVB or MHB then its a different story, and a UV meter is essential for proper setup, but I'm assuming you're using a tube...


Damn..I just remembered what this thread was about. Thank you Lee and thanks for the info...:notworthy:

12% tube 42 inch (1066mm) {oh, battle of Hastings 1066, sorry going off thread again:blush:] ...It's mounted about 10 inch (250mm) up and there's a log within 4 to 5 inches (100mm to 125mm)

windy


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

*Bugger...*



Aunty_Lizard said:


> :lol2: I know how to have a laugh... christ I have too. I don't work due to being ill (I'm offically ill the drs said so) I had to give up work 4/5 years ago when I had a back op which went wrong and didnt work! I was then diagnoised with another illness called Fibromyalgia the only way to describe it is like an atheritis but of the soft tissue. So I am in pain 24/7 dont sleep, then sleep for hours lol and have no brain cells also known as fibro fog.
> 
> Liz


I read all about this in the other thread, pretty nasty thing to have. I often wonder why the likes of saddam hussein, Hitler and Osama Bin Ladin arn't dealt a condition like this, it always seems to be decent people...

Chin up, we'll try and have a laugh on here from time to time...:2thumb:

windy


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> OK, OK you can try sound like your busy if you like :lol2:
> 
> sounds like a lot of pressure being the non family member in charge!! Im sure all is running well.... and at the same time you can get knowledge of your beardie
> 
> I love my job- i work in property developement, its hard work but worth it and id love to be an MD although i have a long way to go yet to being good enough for that!i would however sneek off early and come in late as my MD does! Its the priviledge you should have


Thirty years in the training & learning, from yard labourer to MD. I just wish I'd listened more at school I might have got here sooner...:whistling2:

I don't suppose having school reports with the heads comments "long time no see" written on them helped...:blush:

windy


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

i went to uni and sixth form, however i dont believe its helped me at all, apart from getting my foot in the door, with regard to property development i think practical experience is always more valuable, uni doesnt teach much and even though i learn from a book- and they never actually took me to a site! I think i would have learnt far more starting at the bottom and working my way up- but what is done, is done- although a little disheartening! 
Maybe with different subjects a degree is necessary but i dont think that property/construction in one of those industries- how can i manage a site if ive not spent the time on one! the practical solution is often very different to what a book says unfortunately! 

I love learning though and think as much as i wish id not gone to uni (apart from for the fun!!) i think it helped me up maybe one rung of the ladder! I work for a small developer and its great because they have the time to explain and also let me take responsibility for a lot- but also provide the support so when i havwe no idea i can ask! Its lucky im not worried about asking questions- i think thats where many graduates go wrong! 

So you started at the bottom and worked up, and i've been to uni- neither of us think it was the right way to go about it! maybe theres no such thing apart from ability and drive?! thats what id like to think anyway! 

Aunty- im sorry to hear about your condition, I hope you have people near by to help you- family are a god send  also glad you have a hobby to keep yourself occupied and you dont think about it too much- your beardies cant much help you around the house but they will give you lots of cuddles 

So how are your dragons getting on? and what made you decide to have one?


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## windymiller (Sep 16, 2010)

loulou87 said:


> i went to uni and sixth form, however i dont believe its helped me at all, apart from getting my foot in the door, with regard to property development i think practical experience is always more valuable, uni doesnt teach much and even though i learn from a book- and they never actually took me to a site! I think i would have learnt far more starting at the bottom and working my way up- but what is done, is done- although a little disheartening!
> Maybe with different subjects a degree is necessary but i dont think that property/construction in one of those industries- how can i manage a site if ive not spent the time on one! the practical solution is often very different to what a book says unfortunately!
> 
> I love learning though and think as much as i wish id not gone to uni (apart from for the fun!!) i think it helped me up maybe one rung of the ladder! I work for a small developer and its great because they have the time to explain and also let me take responsibility for a lot- but also provide the support so when i havwe no idea i can ask! Its lucky im not worried about asking questions- i think thats where many graduates go wrong!
> ...


I pipped two graduate candidates to the post for the MD's position...apparently, not my words, they are poor communicators... :whistling2:

My Dragons? thanks for asking, coco is doing just fine, eating well with a good range of food, locusts, crix, meal worms, wax worms and veg and she loves dandilion leaves...:notworthy:

The other dragon is working today but the last I saw of her she was doing fine as well...:gasp: nice of you to ask...

I'm going to build a new vivarium, plans are a foot to build one with some handy design features. Size will be approx 52" x 27" x 24" (L x W x H).

The company I run already supplies three local viv builders with cut and edged boards so we have the material and machines to get me off to a good start. Size is governed by where it will be sited.

I'll start a thread soon with more details and pics of it's progression.

windy


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