# Large Arboreal Phyllomedusa Racking Build - Pic Heavy



## Terrarium Supplies

Up until recent times, I have mainly had our frogs scattered around the home taking advantage of every available space. Our home as it currently stands is a labyrinth of terrariums and solar omitting lamps. With a freshly built extension and a new room to delegate the time has once again come to expand.

This is a fresh new build so I will be documenting my progress over the following weeks in the run up to Xmas.

A few weeks ago I posted up a thread to gather some basic costs on a RETF Breeding System

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/912811-retf-breeding-system-build-how.html

I now have the time to focus my efforts on this project but have made some changes along the way. I initially planned on having a 3 tier racking unit that would hold 13 terrariums.

I no longer plan on having it setup like this as these were based all on Exo Terra's. The main focus now is based on climate and group size as I am building the unit to house my very own custom terrariums that I plan on building to spec for a range of arboreal Phyllomedusas.

I've been given a few 'room rules' by the other half of which I have to abide by:

_I must first incorporate storage for all bits and pieces that are stacked around the house and move Ferrol out of the living room and relocate into this room._

Fair play I guess :2thumb:


First of all I had to determine how much space I had to play with. Taking into account plug sockets, the central radiator and double window. With all measurements done it was now time to go shopping!

First up was the storage units. This was a bit of a cheat sheet as these came direct from IKEA. I opted for the MALM chest of drawers in Oak veneer. The 3 of these set me back £165.00 and fitted exactly where I needed them too. Strong, robust and perfect for the job.

MALM Chest of 3 drawers - white - IKEA
Next on the shopping list was yet more Conti. This time from B&Q as this was the only 'local' place I could find 18mm. 9 sheets of 2000x450x18mm plus a roll of Oak finishing tape set me back £209.00.

*Total unit build to date is already £374.00.*

You can see the progress I have made so far. The 3 MALM drawers only took around 1 hour to assemble and like most IKEA stuff it was relatively simple one man job. Ferrol's vivarium took me no longer than 40 minutes to cut, bevel and counter sink into place.


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## fatlad69

Looking good so far.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Had a good few hours with the build today and managed to complete the main frame unit with all compartments. The only problem I encountered was cutting the wood as this took quite a while to measure up and get right.

You can see the scale of the rack here. Lifting this up and around was a back breaker!



















Once the outer frame was built, it was just a case of getting the dividers even and in line.




























This was done by marking the inner frames with pencil as a guide to hit the 18mm compartments correctly.










Once the whole unit was stable, I pinned the backing into place with nylon tape to support the joins.



















A good few hours later, a stiff drink and minus my broken back, the brand new rack was in place.


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## J4MES

Looking smart, looking to do something like this myself some day!


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## wayne the pain

Great work, looking forward to next bit :2thumb:


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## JPalmer

Will be watching to see how it turns out! Looks really good so far! 
Josh


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## Terrarium Supplies

Brand new equipment that I ordered to power the racking and assist my custom built terrariums has started to trickle through. The parcels have been coming thick and fast throughout today with even more on the way this week.










This is the first time I will have given Arcadia the full test drive. Having read loads of positive reports on the brand I have decided to find out what all the hype is about. So throughout my build I will be drilling down into the Arcadia lighting to give me own, independent review on the lighting with some solid before and after results. 










The parts that came today are x2 Arcadia 750mm Reflectors £18.00, x1 Arcadia Mini D3 UV 80W Basking Lamp £33.95, x1 Arcadia Ceramic Reflector 140mm Clamp Lamp £14.99, x3 Arcadia Halogen 75W Basking Spotlights £41.61, x4 6mm Matt Black Runners £8.49 and a 5mm hollow aluminium rod £1.98 of which I will go into detail when I start to fit the UV tubes.

*Total unit build to date is £493.02*

I am particularly keen to test out the Halogen Basking Spotlights as these are suppose to be an energy efficient source of light and heat. Claims have also been made which allows one to create a dedicated thermo-gradient of which emits a very strong and natural light so I will be putting these to test in the larger lower terrariums.

A before shot of a large adult female Phyllomedusa Sauvagii before using any of the above.


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## tokayfawcus

looking good bro!!! i would like to do this for my gecko collection


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## the_viper

that looks good so far, should imagine that weighs a fair bit


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## rexob

thats a great build matey :2thumb:, do you have any more pics of it all done??


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## Terrarium Supplies

tokayfawcus said:


> looking good bro!!! i would like to do this for my gecko collection


A racking unit like this would be perfect for arboreal Geckos, in fact any small to medium Reptile or Amphibian could benefit from something like this.



the_viper said:


> that looks good so far, should imagine that weighs a fair bit


When I first built the frame, it weighed a far bit however once the middle support shelf was in along with the dividers the whole thing suddenly became a nightmare to move around. Baring in mind that it will only become heavier as I continue with the build and start building the custom vivs.



rexob said:


> thats a great build matey :2thumb:, do you have any more pics of it all done??


Not yet mate as this is work in progress. Hopefully be online this evening with another progress report.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Whilst I've been away some of the heat fixings, wiring and sockets have been delivered. The parts included x3 Ceramic Wall Sockets £21.00, x3 Screw-in Ceramic Top Sockets £12.00, x3 3amp Plugs £4.98, a small roll of black electricians tape £1.00 and a 10m Roll of Heat Resistant Cable £10.99.

*Total unit build to date is £542.99*



















Just before I left on Friday, an early xmas present arrived from Arcadia. The highly anticipated D3+ UV Flood Lamp that pumps out an incredible 12% UVB whilst only being just under 35cms. I am trailing this product for Arcadia as part of the research into "Arcadia Reptile Amphibian conservation project" to use for a group of large Phyllomedusa Sauvagii and I must say that I am extremely honoured and delighted to put this through its paces!

_The Arcadia UV Flood Lamps have an RRP of £69.99 however shops and online retailers all have their own offers on this product and saving against RRP can be had so shop around._



















The Arcadia Flood will be trailed in one of the bottom larger racks. John from Arcadia has provided me with some very in depth background science and technology behind this new product so I cannot wait to see how the Flood fares over the next few months.

To make the lamp work for me, I have had to make a few adjustments to the positioning as I want the Sauvagii to absorb as much of the rays as possible. I also wanted air to flow above the lamp and not directly impact onto the above shelf.

Going back to the aluminium rod that I purchased a few weeks ago... I cut two small sections into 100mm pieces so that the 125mm screws fitted neat and snug into the tubes. Taking into account the Lamp hood thickness whilst retaining a good grip into the 18mm conti-board.










With everything pinned together and screwed into place, the end result was a very firm and solid Flood Lamp custom bridge.



















You can see here how the Halogen and Flood sit together whilst the bridge moves the UV Lamp into my desired placement.










You can see the true output and contrast of the first rack here.


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## colinm

Its looking good?Are you worried about any heat build up with the enclosed back.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Slightly concerned yes. Running some test today whilst I'm off then proceeding with the other sections. May have to look at ways to take some of the heat out.


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## colinm

Out of interest have you seen the new Habistat vivs?They have come up with some clever ideas there,mesh backgrounds,stacking etc.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Yeah Colin, saw these on display at Donny. They do look very impressive but the cost for what I would want to do would cost an absolute bomb! I'm going down the twin wall polly route so I can customise the enclosures whilst retaining as much light and heat as possible.


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## Arcadiajohn

Looking very good!

im looking forward to seeing how this progresses. :2thumb:

again well done good use of a very powerful product.

john


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## zekee

Interesting build and good thread, in considering building some tanks from twin wall, but would need a clear front I.e acrylic, how will you be constructing yours? Will they be 100% water tight?


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## Terrarium Supplies

I'm starting as soon as the materials come which should be early next week. First up will be one of the top vivariums as these are smaller to work with. They will be 100% watertight along with full viewing glass doors. I've opted to go down the Poly route for a few reasons. Not only can I customise the shape and overall size of the vivariums but I will be able to retain more heat and moisture whilst allowing full light exposure from the canopy tops. I can also drill pilot holes to allow the misting nozzles and create false bottoms with ease.


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## zekee

do you think this technique could be used for building a shallow fish tank? 7" in depth, if so would save me a fortune on getting a glass or acrylic tank built...


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## Terrarium Supplies

If you use a min of 16mm Poly then probably yes however it may need support struts to handle your turtles hurling themselves in and out. Would be good to trial it out though mate.


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## zekee

Yeah, I think I will trial it, just bit unsure on the silicones etc...


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Yeah, I think I will trial it, just bit unsure on the silicones etc...


I'll be putting all the info and brand names up when I start to build the vivs.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Managed to get quite a bit done on the new racking unit this evening. Today whilst I was having my defrost live food nightmare, more bits and pieces had been delivered. Today parts included x5 Ceramic Sockets £29.00, x3 3amp Plugs £5.98 and whilst on the live food run I popped into B&Q to get a roll of 10M fireproof foil backed insulation £7.99.

*Total unit build to date is £585.99*

I also decided to make the five top sections into four as this would give the frogs much more room. The top four sections now measure in at 550x420x450mm.

I started tonight with the top wiring section.



















I also drilled out some 70mm holes where the Arcadia T5's will be institute. All three dividers bare this hole running horizontally.










Next on my list was the new foil backed insulation. I measured the bottom right base whereby I have the Arcadia Flood fitted and simply cut a piece to fit snug. Sticking this into place with some double sided tape.










Arcadia test drive time... here is the bottom larger section with the foil base fitted with only the Halogen switched on of which looks very artificial.



















Next I tested with just the Flood lamp on and you can really see the difference now as this looks much more natural.



















To finish my light reflection test, I put both Halogen and Flood on together as this will be the daily cycle and I must admit I was more than happy with the outcome of both lights working together. 



















To give a better perspective on things, I put some standard light bulbs in the top four sections. The bottom section all had the Arcadia Halogens in place whilst the bottom right quite simply outshines all other sections. I may not have started to test this out with any frogs as yet but just by looking and running my hands under the Flood, I know things are on the right track!



















More good news as my day continued to pick up. Some of the Polycarbonate had been dropped off thanks to Nick Gray!


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## zekee

Looking great, with the holes are you running one tube across the 4 vivs?


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Looking great, with the holes are you running one tube across the 4 vivs?


No I'm going to be running x2 22" 24W T5's mate across the top as some of my Lemur frogs will be going in them now. Not too sure what I'm doing with the bottom two yet - ideally would like to run another two Arcadia Floods to give the bottom bank even clarity and UV spread.


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## zekee

T5's are brilliant, I've recently upgraded to them, makes you think 'what took me so long'.

I'm unfamiliar with phibs, are the spots for a basking area or just to increase ambient temps or just for extra loght/plant growth?


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> T5's are brilliant, I've recently upgraded to them, makes you think 'what took me so long'.
> 
> I'm unfamiliar with phibs, are the spots for a basking area or just to increase ambient temps or just for extra loght/plant growth?


I've heard and read so much good press about them so I thought I would see what all the hype is about. Everyone who uses them does not have a bad word to say about them. John over at Arcadia has provided us with some sterling advice into the technology behind them so I am very eager to get them up and running :mf_dribble:

The basking lamps are for the sun worshiping Phyllomedusa Sauvagii which can sustain basking temperatures as high as 100f during peak times.










The top light fixings will be set on timers to sporadically warm up air temperatures throughout the day. I've found heat mats to be pointless when it comes to arboreal frogs as they do little to warm the air.


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## zekee

Beautiful picture, not got a bad word to say about Arcadia, only today did I receive a new D3 basking spot from them, unfortunately it is faulty, an email to Arcadia at gone 6pm, less than half hour later receive a reply saying a new bulb will be sent, top marks 

You've done a stellar job on this build so far mate, credit where its due, be great to see it when completed.

Would love to keep some phibs one day, did consider some darts, although a school mate did have a big poster of a red eye tree frog on his wall, it was stunning, and I still remember it to this day, nearly two decades on....


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## Ron Magpie

zekee said:


> Beautiful picture, not got a bad word to say about Arcadia, only today did I receive a new D3 basking spot from them, unfortunately it is faulty, an email to Arcadia at gone 6pm, less than half hour later receive a reply saying a new bulb will be sent, top marks
> 
> You've done a stellar job on this build so far mate, credit where its due, be great to see it when completed.
> 
> Would love to keep some phibs one day, did consider some darts, although a school mate did have a big poster of a red eye tree frog on his wall, it was stunning, and I still remember it to this day, nearly two decades on....


Most 'phibs are no more complicated than turtles to keep, once you have the basics down- and they need a *lot* less cleaning out! :lol2:


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## rexob

you're doing a great job, its progressing rather well by the looks of it


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> You've done a stellar job on this build so far mate, credit where its due, be great to see it when completed.
> 
> Would love to keep some phibs one day, did consider some darts, although a school mate did have a big poster of a red eye tree frog on his wall, it was stunning, and I still remember it to this day, nearly two decades on....


It should start coming together thick and fast now. Albeit still waiting on a few more bits and bobs. 

Phibs are great mate with a Red Eyed Tree Frog being something of an iconic pinup. Problem is they don't become active until the lights go out so to appreciate their real natural beauty one has to view them in the dark :2thumb:


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## bobo10

Im impressed, they will look awesome when finished.


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## zekee

I didn't know red eyes were nocturnal, that's a shame. Still a beautiful animal. Your blue sided leaf (I think that's what its called ) is stunning, I love the contrast of the blue and green.


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> I didn't know red eyes were nocturnal, that's a shame. Still a beautiful animal.


Yes mate all Hylid Frogs are nocturnal but can be seen early morning and in the evenings. Our Phyllomedusa sauvagii however are out during daylight hours as they worship the sun. 



zekee said:


> Your blue sided leaf (I think that's what its called ) is stunning, I love the contrast of the blue and green.


I'm going to put up some better pics of these beauties now they have settled in. I'm chuffed to bits with them as I've wanted these for ages.


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## zekee

I keep mainly musk turtles which are crepuscular creatures, most active at twilight and dawn. Will need to do some reading up on these guys.....oh and try persuade the mrs in allowed another enclosure 

Looking forward to the pictures mate


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## Terrarium Supplies

With some of the Polycarbonate now delivered I started work on lining Ferrols arboreal vivarium to make the wooden enclosure fully watertight. It also aided me to test drive the Polycarbonate prior to the custom vivarium builds.

More purchases included x4 sheets of 4mm Twin Wall Polycarbonate £27.00 and x5 cartridges of HA6 Clear Silicone £12.09.

*Total unit build to date £625.08*

Here is how the vivarium looked on Saturday morning. Basically a Oak Veneer wooden shell.










I started to measure, score and cut the Polycarbonate to size.





































With the first back panel ready it was time to see how it fitted. Main aim here being tight and very flush to the back wall and inner sides.










Granted I had to remove this panel to slightly trim the top edges however this was quite a challenging job. To make life easier and a good tip... use sucker cups to grip and pull paneling back out for adjusting.










Once the back panel was a very snug fit, I moved onto the base.










Here is how it looked with both back and base set into place.










Next was the inner trimming and the lower partitioning wall.










Then swiftly followed by the inner top vents.



















Next was the side panels and hey presto, the Polycarbonate lining was started to formulate.














































With all the lining in place I did a bit of pre-silicone prep. Wiping down where I was going to seal the edges with some Alcohol Wipes. Followed by a good rub down with some Kitchen Roll.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Whilst the inner panels where drying out I moved onto sealing some of the visual edges with a good quality Nylon Ribbed Tape.





































With everything now ready it was time to start sealing the inner panels with HA6 Clear Silicone.














































The finished product was a fully sealed wooden vivarium that 'CAN' hold water.


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## zekee

Looking good mate, really good build


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## Terrarium Supplies

Happy days! Got a call this morning to say that the x10 25x25mm Matt Black L Profiles £69.00 and the x14 Matt Black Glass Runners £36.00 where ready for collection but boy oh boy did I under estimate the length of these things. I'm sure I ordered 1m lengths of these fixings however when I arrived at the trade yard, there was a huge 3m tube.

*Total unit build to date £730.08*

Now I drive a pretty big 4x4 and I only just managed to fit this thing in. You can see the size of this tube here.










Once I navigated through the house, up and round the stairs (taking plenty of paint with me - why I did not break this down is another story!!) I finally managed to take all contents out.



















Whilst I was stacking these in the landing, ding dong' the new 10mm Twin Wall Polycarbonate had arrived. This cost £114.00 delivered as I decided to get this pre-cut as I didn't fancy cutting this lot (probably would have taken me the best part of half a day to get right). There is a total of 56 pieces ad shown here.

*Total unit build to date £844.08*





































Being the eager beaver that I am, I started to 'loosely' align (one puff and that lot was over!!) the 10mm sheets into place. 




























You can see why I built the Arcadia UV Flood custom bridge as I want the Phyllomedusa Sauvagii to be directly in the 'Boosting Zone' when perched on their canopies.


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## ronnyjodes

How many vivs are looking to build using that lot then James?


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## Terrarium Supplies

7 altogether John


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## ronnyjodes

So if my maths is right you've spent £219 on the materials to make your vivs (not including the mesh of course) so divided by 7 you're talking £32 a viv. When you add on the mesh you're still talking around £40 each and considering the size of some of them you've not done too badly! I looked in to making a single polycarb viv and it would have worked out far more costly and not worth the hassle but buying materials in bulk seems to work out really well.


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## Terrarium Supplies

ronnyjodes said:


> So if my maths is right you've spent £219 on the materials to make your vivs (not including the mesh of course) so divided by 7 you're talking £32 a viv. When you add on the mesh you're still talking around £40 each and considering the size of some of them you've not done too badly! I looked in to making a single polycarb viv and it would have worked out far more costly and not worth the hassle but buying materials in bulk seems to work out really well.


Give or take a few pounds your basically there Jon.

Not done any final measurements yet but the viv sizes should come in at:

X4 - 800x650x450mm
X5 - 550x420x450mm

So you get an overall bigger enclosure when compared to the like of Exo Terra. There a million miles away off from the final product but I've just started to pin one together and the weight is next to nothing. These type of custom vivs could be literally racked on shelves, bookcases and the likes. This was just one of the reason I opted to go down the Poly route as the main frame alone weights a rudy tone!! 

If all goes well with these, I'll be moving onto to some custom rainchambers as my current vivs for those always fall short of the mark. With this Poly stuff, you can basically drill little pilot holes for misters and wires etc keeping everything neatly tucked away. The twinwall also retain heat very well and is easy to clean and maintain. Light also gets reflected in and around the inner vanes which should make the live plants boom!!


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## Ron Magpie

The other thing with polycarbon vivs is that they aren't quite as stable or secure as glass- I know Morgan Freeman was disappointed with his experiment.


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## Wolfenrook

Ron Magpie said:


> The other thing with polycarbon vivs is that they aren't quite as stable or secure as glass- I know Morgan Freeman was disappointed with his experiment.


Aye, he tried to use twin wall polycarb for the top of a very long viv, without support struts. Twin wall is too floppy for this. Lexan however (single sheet polycarb) is more rigid than even acrylic and shatter proof pretty much. Twin wall's strength is vertical strength, so it's good for walls and ok for the floor, but rubbish for lids.

Ade


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## Ron Magpie

Wolfenrook said:


> Aye, he tried to use twin wall polycarb for the top of a very long viv, without support struts. Twin wall is too floppy for this. Lexan however (single sheet polycarb) is more rigid than even acrylic and shatter proof pretty much. Twin wall's strength is vertical strength, so it's good for walls and ok for the floor, but rubbish for lids.
> 
> Ade


It leaked from the base, too, as I recall.


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## ronnyjodes

I remember how hyped he was about doing that viv. Shame it didn't quite work. It could be an excuse to have another crack and maybe tweak what materials he uses though.


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## Ron Magpie

ronnyjodes said:


> I remember how hyped he was about doing that viv. Shame it didn't quite work. It could be an excuse to have another crack and maybe tweak what materials he uses though.


I'm guessing the key is a secure frame and struts- but it is just guessing.


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## Wolfenrook

All the ones I have seen that worked they used black L profile on all of the edges, so I would agree Ron that that's the trick. Also glass, Lexan or UVx acrylic doors, twin wall makes really rubbish doors. lol

If you sandwitch 2 sheets of polycarb together it's stronger too. I had to do this when I converted the Sisa viv.

Ade


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## DrNick

Ron Magpie said:


> It leaked from the base, too, as I recall.


The main issue people seem to run into when making polycarb vivs is leakage/pealing due to using the wrong type of silicone. HA6 that the OP is using has worked for some people and is probably fine here because of the supported design he's using (which looks great by the way!!), but it's not ideal. There are specialist silicones for polycarbonate which are preferable, such as Dow Corning 799. Not much more expensive.

Nick


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## richie.b

As already said polycarb is not the easiest to seal and get totally watertight, a lot of the people that i know who make them use a glass tray to put the viv in. Plus you will need it watertight with conti board as it doesnt take long to get ruined from water damage which would be a shame as the units look really good.

Richie


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## dazdaraz

these enclosures and the whole building is looking ace!!
:no1:

i've been reading this on and off and i'm beginning to wonder
why there arent more viv's/terrariums made from plastic.
other than structural supports etc, but sure that could be worked around.

just a quick question,
how well does the polycarb hold up against UV lighting and Heat?
could they be used with basking lamps as long as the bulb doesnt
touch the plastics?

Daz


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## Terrarium Supplies

In all honestly water retention was one of my original concerns. So too was the stability and shelf life of such material. As said, the strength of Polycarbonate depends on which way you cut. Being arboreal vivs, I made sure that each piece was cut in the same direction, ensuring that the twin wall cavities run vertically thus providing more stability. If you refer back to some of the earlier pics, you will see exactly what I mean. 

HA6 silicone will only be used to seal the inner quarters, the majority of bonding will be done by an industry favourite. Each sheet will first be bonded into the profiling which creates outer panels > these panels will then be bonded to each other which creates the box (frame) > Once the frame is complete and bonded further detailing will be added for the mesh, runners and outer support struts > once complete minus the glass front, HA6 silicone will be applied and left for a good 48 curing period > I will add a good amount of water to each base with a hint of blue die > each viv will then undergo a leak test.


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## Terrarium Supplies

dazdaraz said:


> how well does the polycarb hold up against UV lighting and Heat?
> could they be used with basking lamps as long as the bulb doesnt
> touch the plastics?


Hi Daz, not done a lot of testing on UV with the Poly 'yet' however I can tell you that it stands up to heat relatively well. Yes this stuff could be used with basking lamps as long as it does not directly come into contact with a bulb... or too close to a hot spot etc. It is quite remarkable how much this stuff retains the heat.


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## DrNick

I doubt you'll have any problems. I've built over 15 polycarbonate vivs now including one as large as yours. They are all free standing and I have never had a leak. The only thing to watch for is keeping the sides parallel for taller vivs, but with your boxed design that shouldn't be an issue either. I'm sure they'll look great and the advantage of polycarbonate is, if you don't like it, just bin it and build a new one!


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## Terrarium Supplies

My thoughts exactly Nick! Would be good to see yours mate so when you get some time fire some shots ups.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Not had that much free time being xmas and all' however I did manage to pin these together with some sticky tape to get the overall dimensions. They stack up relatively well and seem quite robust. Baring in mind that I have not touched them with any silicone or profiling yet.

Here are the custom vivs stacked up.










The way the Twin wall runs makes these superbly tolerant to weight.










Also managed to do a little bit of UV reflection testing up close next to some glow lamps.



















With the dimensions all but 99% there (minus a few trims), I cut a small bit of the profiling to see how this sits and not only will this provide more stability, these pvc angled pieces will tidy the vivs and give them a nice quality end finish.


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## Meko

Are they going inside the rack units? and if so.... Are you siliconing the joints on the rack? from the look of the other pics it doesn't look like you have. 

Just thinking that it might be worth doing incase some of these find a way to leak. If one does then it could be a while before you notice and in that time, it could be rotting away at the frame.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Meko said:


> Are they going inside the rack units? and if so.... Are you siliconing the joints on the rack? from the look of the other pics it doesn't look like you have.


Yeah Meko, these are going in side of the rack as I have made these to fit snug into each compartment. Yes the sheets will first be bonded using a strong plastic adhesive to the profiles and each of the individual twin wall sheets giving double strength.

** edit: no these are not being bonded to the rack as I want to be able to take each viv out for spot cleaning and maintenance (if any).



Meko said:


> Just thinking that it might be worth doing incase some of these find a way to leak. If one does then it could be a while before you notice and in that time, it could be rotting away at the frame.


Once each viv is solid and structurally sound, HA6 will be used to make these watertight. Just like a standard aquarium. Then work will progress onto the cosmetics, mesh tops and glass runners. Followed by pilot holes for the inner equipment and digital thermo/hydro screens.


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## chrism

Some people have done great with polycarb and silicone, but personally, if I built again i'd resin and glass the joints.

West coast fiberglass kit and tape, cant see one in place with substrate etc, and prevents any leaks0 that many have had.


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## Terrarium Supplies

chrism said:


> Some people have done great with polycarb and silicone, but personally, if I built again i'd resin and glass the joints.
> 
> West coast fiberglass kit and tape, cant see one in place with substrate etc, and prevents any leaks0 that many have had.


I read a report online that fibreglass does not bond well with Polycarbonate Chris. Can't for the life of me find it again but it was on some Glazing forum.


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## dazdaraz

they look amazing
really impressive

i really thinking about making some of these soon
and the polycarb is actually quite cheap when you think about it

just a quick question, the bit of plastic and the bottom that going
to hold the bottom runner for the glass, is that in between the two
sides, or in front?
if its in front, any reason for choosing this?
or is the profiling going to stop the glass running off?
any news on UV test yet?


Daz


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## Terrarium Supplies

dazdaraz said:


> they look amazing
> really impressive
> 
> i really thinking about making some of these soon
> and the polycarb is actually quite cheap when you think about it
> 
> just a quick question, the bit of plastic and the bottom that going
> to hold the bottom runner for the glass, is that in between the two
> sides, or in front?
> if its in front, any reason for choosing this?
> or is the profiling going to stop the glass running off?
> any news on UV test yet?
> 
> 
> Daz


They are very cheap Daz and can be cut to any size really. To date I have not found any real limitations.

The lower plastic sheet is indeed in front however there is a good reason for this. Without going into any detail yet I will explain why in the next few days as I have already started to build the first viv. Full pictures and guides will be showcased shortly as viv one is currently drying out.

Still waiting for the UV gun from a collegue for full testing so will let you know on that front probably next week.

More to come shortly!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Had a bit of a frantic Xmas and birthday so got behind on a vast majority of work. Yesterday I picked up the tools (new years eve I know!) and once again delved into things.

First up was a little bit of shopping so I dropped into our local B&Q and picked up some premium Duck Tape £6.99. A few pointers that I MUST stress - do not use cheap tape!!! Use 'original' Duck Tape as these cheap stuff will simply not make the grade.

Also if your scissors and Stanley knifes are blunt then invest in a new pair as this will make life a hell of a lot easier.
*
Total unit build to date £851.07*



















The first Poly lined up and ready to roll.




























Work progressed on the back and base sheet first





































Now the side panels with help from Stanley.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Nice clean finish however this will NOT be the final finish!!









































































Top panels ready to be fitted.









































































Nice clean finish however... don't worry about any imperfections yet.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

More top panel work.


















































































Bottom runner track work.




























I decided to double up the bottom sheet to two 10mm sheets which will make the glass doors more stable.




























Bottom snapshot










Top snapshot


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Now the first frame was kind of stable, albeit not sealed or profiled I started work on the ventilation. Just before Xmas I ordered a roll of Fine Aluminium Mesh £11.99 which measured 3m x 500mm.

*Total unit build to date £863.06*

The stuff aint cheap but it is Fruit Fly proof!!



















I measured and cut the required length.



















...and started work on securing it into place.



















The Duck Tape was once again used to stick this into place ready for the next stages.




























I also wrapped the Tape around both of the top panels to give a better finish (my OCD creeping back in).


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Before I delve into the profiling and finishing work I forgot to mention a few things. Wherever the twin sheet is open to moisture, seal it up with the Duck Tape and make sure that a firm grip is applied. The tape will hold so stretch and pull it firmly.
Just grip, pull and stick it to create the seal prior to finishing.










Also something that I found out the hard way was do not use normal sticky tape to pin it together like I did here. Use masking tape and nothing else.










It leaves a horrid snail trial that is a bugger to remove!! More on that later and when I come to the high-end finish...


----------



## zekee

Looking great! Will you be sealing these vivs with silicone?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Looking great! Will you be sealing these vivs with silicone?


Yes mate, I've built the four top vivs today of which are all fully sealed and ready for the next part - ''custom background and interior design'' :mf_dribble:

Should have the next round of pics on tomorrow evening as building 7 of these takes frecking ages!!!


----------



## zekee

Worth it though mate, look awesome, and your OCD I would be the same


----------



## ronnyjodes

Terrarium Supplies said:


> ''custom background and interior design'' :mf_dribble:


Aka the best bit!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Worth it though mate, look awesome, and your OCD I would be the same


Trust me, when I first discovered the snail trial I wanted to take a hammer to them. In the end I just got on with it and decided to find my own way around things. I also hate looking back at the pics I posted up yesterday as they look a complete mess. Eager to get the next round of pics loaded and not one to blow my own trumpet but they look the dogs and are solid as a rock!!



ronnyjodes said:


> Aka the best bit!


Hell yah!!! already started to gather my tools and decor for an epic start to 2013.


----------



## zekee

Exciting times, so these hold water now? Tempted to test this method for my turtles, would be great lightweight enclosures


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Exciting times, so these hold water now? Tempted to test this method for my turtles, would be great lightweight enclosures


Sure do matey! 100% water tight and sealed - very light weight, robust and modern design - great insulators with impressive light exposure - relatively cheap and easy to make.


----------



## zekee

Hmmm, the posibilities are endless, further research may be required into this method, and if successful will make an interesting project. Which could see me move away from glass tanks 

What silicone did you use? Do you have a link of sorts?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Hmmm, the posibilities are endless, further research may be required into this method, and if successful will make an interesting project. Which could see me move away from glass tanks
> 
> What silicone did you use? Do you have a link of sorts?


I've not done the shelf life test as this is fairly new grounds for me but put it this way.... I'll be buying no more glass tanks this year. Poly will be my way forward as I master the art of building these. 

Here you mate, everything you need:

4mm Polycarbonate from Nick Gray - best quality and service by far (they will also cut it to size FOC)

MULTIPLE SIZES, LOW COST DELIVERY!! 4mm & 10mm Polycarbonate Sheet Greenhouse | eBay

Ha6 marine silicone for aquariums

HA6 SILICONE SEALANT RTV MARINE AQUARIUM, FISH TANK SAFE HIGH MODULUS SALT WATER | eBay


----------



## zekee

Thanks for the links mate appreciate it


----------



## earthtiger

zekee said:


> Exciting times, so these hold water now? Tempted to test this method for my turtles, would be great lightweight enclosures


an alternative, if you are looking for a water proof very light and strong material are PVC rigid foam panels like Forex, Kömacell, Simopor, Vekaplan, LentaCell,...

I have frog tanks made from Forex and I really love that stuff.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

earthtiger said:


> an alternative, if you are looking for a water proof very light and strong material are PVC rigid foam panels like Forex, Kömacell, Simopor, Vekaplan, LentaCell,...
> 
> I have frog tanks made from Forex and I really love that stuff.


Martin, do you have any links of this kind of stuff? Are these available in the UK as well as Germany as I'm curious.


----------



## swede

I am really looking forward to see the end result of these builds. Looks fantastic and have really challenged my thinking of how to build terrariums!
:no1:


----------



## earthtiger

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Martin, do you have any links of this kind of stuff? Are these available in the UK as well as Germany as I'm curious.


I bet this material is availably in the UK too, since it is widely used in the printing and marketing/advertising sector but also in balcony construction... 

Here is a link with some information about Forex:
FOREX®
The other trademarks (Kömacell, Simopor, Vekaplan, LentaCell,...) have similar characteristics.

You can clue them together with "Tangit". Respectively this method is called "cold welding". You also can srew in it, drill holes, serrate,...
It is hardly inflammable. Has good isolation factor. 

...I am really convinced from this material.


----------



## DrNick

Just a related thought that may be of interest. I spent the best part of last night trying to dismantle a polycarbonate viv I made a year or so ago in order to reuse a few of the components (being a massive cheapskate.....) and after about 2 h with a razor blade and a wallpaper scraper gave it up as a bad job.... These things are certainly not flimsy!

Nick


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

DrNick said:


> Just a related thought that may be of interest. I spent the best part of last night trying to dismantle a polycarbonate viv I made a year or so ago in order to reuse a few of the components (being a massive cheapskate.....) and after about 2 h with a razor blade and a wallpaper scraper gave it up as a bad job.... These things are certainly not flimsy!
> 
> Nick


I had to readjust one of the smaller vivs - the job proved quite challenging. Once stuck together the panels do not like to be moved. I resorted to heating up the frame sealant (with a mask on!) so I could get to the area. Now the profiling are on I have absolutely no chance of tweaking. Just glad I worked in mm and not inches!!!


----------



## Spuddy

This looks awesome. Can't wait to see the finished result and the step by step interior design part.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Right folks here we go, this is what I have up to now. The top 4 custom Poly vivs in all their glory. As you can see, what started life as twin wall Polycarbonate has been finely tuned into robust and modern tanks that are all 100% watertight. 

I'm not going into detail on the profiling as this is optional and was done for two reasons... first being stability whilst second being the end finish. I must add that I used Black Jap Self Tappers to make the frame even more secure.

Vivs stacked up.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Vivs drying out














































Vivs in top racking.
































































New viv heating and lighting - starting with some Arcadia T8's Euro (test run).



















New viv top runners for access to the heating and lighting. Same Poly used 
wrapped in Duck Tape!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Fine mesh inner heat/light source view.



















Some more random images from the Large viv build. No point having any real cosmetics when an Iguana is about lol!! So I built a custom double shelf unit and ladder runs which are all removable for easy cleaning.





































Bracket and hole ready for the large Arcadia Mini D3 Spot Lamp.


----------



## zekee

They look great! Well done mate, where did you get the green carpet from...been looking for some of that!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Here we go Mr Sternotherus: Artificial Grass Mat - Greengrocers Fake Grass 6ft x 3ft

I use it for a lot of things really and washes up great. Just soak it for 30 mins with hot water and a good spray of Beaphar Deep Clean Disinfectant.


----------



## zekee

You're a star mate, I've been looking everywhere for that stuff! Really impressed with these vivs mate, how long does it take you to complete one? Btw the finishing on these is top notch!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> You're a star mate, I've been looking everywhere for that stuff! Really impressed with these vivs mate, how long does it take you to complete one? Btw the finishing on these is top notch!


NP :2thumb:

Hard to say mate as I did the first four in stages. I would est that each poly viv takes around 2-3hrs. Baring in mind that cutting the profile to size with 45 degree angles takes some time. Then you've got to take into account the drying time of the frame and ha6 silicone sealant. Fitting the runners and getting the glass cut tomorrow. Then I'll start on the 3 larger vivs.

Yeah I'm very pleased with the finish. I had to do it this way or I would just keep looking at them and would probably end up smashing them to pieces if I was not happy. I like things to be very crisp and clean (think I've got problems) :mf_dribble: - If something needs doing then I make sure it is done right!


----------



## swede

Hi mate, these look absolutely stunning!
You have done a brilliant job here.

I know you said you weren't going to go into detail about the profiling, but it looks so good I have to ask hw you did it?

Cheers jon


----------



## zekee

Best way to be mate, you've inspired me with this thread, in currently in the process of designing and pricing up various bits and bobs to start on one of my 2013 projects, a rack for housing my male musks  really tempted to try your methods to construct a 7" shallow tank....bit worried it won't hold the pressure though, possible trial run first...


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

swede said:


> Cheers jon


Cheers Jon, I'll go into detail on the profiling and sealing when I build the larger 3 vivs tomo. I'm getting bashed by pm for not doing this lol!!! Watch this space :2thumb:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Best way to be mate, you've inspired me with this thread, in currently in the process of designing and pricing up various bits and bobs to start on one of my 2013 projects, a rack for housing my male musks  really tempted to try your methods to construct a 7" shallow tank....bit worried it won't hold the pressure though, possible trial run first...


If your in any doubt mate then like you say... do a test run with a few offcuts. Make a shallow water tray using the methods in this thread mate as I am sure it will hold overtime! Maybe use 16mm instead of 10mm poly... I think you can even get triple wall 24mm if I am correct?

As soon as this project is complete I'm on onto my next one using the same stuff. I'm hooked :mf_dribble:


----------



## zekee

I may well do that, possibly contact the people you got yours from and get them to cut some for me, then test it 

Looking forward to more progress updates


----------



## fatlad69

if you make a wooden frame for the musk viv, maybe with a window at the front then the water pressure should not be a problem. definitely worth a try.


----------



## fatlad69

Would i be correct in thinking you have used sliding doors to access the lights. I have been thinking of making ( or having made for me) something similar to you for an exo terra so i dont have to use the exo terra hood and bulbs. obviously it would be on a much smaller scale with maybe two or three vivs.


----------



## soundstounite

A really cool bit of craftsmanship, good to see kiddo:no1:.I noted a mention of forex,nearest thing i found here was in white...called PVC foamboard,try the roberthornegroup. I'm too cream cracked to find a proper link ,but hell if it is important enough you'll find it
great work!


Stu


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Would i be correct in thinking you have used sliding doors to access the lights. I have been thinking of making ( or having made for me) something similar to you for an exo terra so i dont have to use the exo terra hood and bulbs. obviously it would be on a much smaller scale with maybe two or three vivs.


Yeah Adam, I measured out some wood slats and attached these to each side using some small L brackets so they are hidden from view as seen here:










Then glued top and bottom runners into place using no nails. Cut some 4mm clear poly that I had spare from lining the large viv and wrapped each sliding door with the Duck Tape as I like the carbon look and feel to everything. No need to really put any small handles on these doors as they glide effortlessly from side to side. I did this to hide the ugly wires and to retain more light into the vivs. So when I need to perform any maintenance, I simply slide the doors for access. Maybe in the summer and when the temps increase, I will keep these open to allow more airflow in and around the vivs.

As your aware mate, I was thinking of getting this racking done for me but I must admit that I have enjoyed and learned a lot from this. I would say give it a bash yourself.


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Yeah Adam, I measured out some wood slats and attached these to each side using some small L brackets so they are hidden from view as seen here:
> 
> image
> 
> Then glued top and bottom runners into place using no nails. Cut some 4mm clear poly that I had spare from lining the large viv and wrapped each sliding door with the Duck Tape as I like the carbon look and feel to everything. No need to really put any small handles on these doors as they glide effortlessly from side to side. I did this to hide the ugly wires and to retain more light into the vivs. So when I need to perform any maintenance, I simply slide the doors for access. *Maybe in the summer and when the temps increase, I will keep these open to allow more airflow in and around the vivs.*
> 
> As your aware mate, I was thinking of getting this racking done for me but I must admit that I have enjoyed and learned a lot from this. I would say give it a bash yourself.


I hadn't thought of opening the doors to reduce heat build up in the summer, functional as wells as stylish. Sadly my carpentry skills are C:censor! This has to be one of the best builds i have seen in a while.
I may try and build a viv though. Did you seal the vivs before or after the L profile.Also where did you get the L profile from? I have seen a build by dendroworks along the ENT style vivs. They didnt use duck tape, do you think it essential?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Adam, by no means am I a carpenter or joiner lol... Having the right materials and tools for the job helps. 

*** Yes tape in my views is a must and only costs a few quid!

I half sealed the vivs after taping as it has a good shelf life! It acts as a bond, a sealant and helps to get the perfect shape prior to profiling. These L profiles hold the weight once screwed into place whilst the ha6 silicone seals and pushes the poly sheets against the profiles which counteract and create a solid structure. These are some of the lessons I learned anyway. My first attempt was a big crappy really! Hence why I had to adjust my methods until I found out what worked.

I'll get the profiling and frame sealing online tomorrow when I have completed the big lower vivs as this should round up the custom poly builds... for now


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Also where did you get the L profile from?


Took me ages to find 25x25mm in black so in the end I dropped on a local roofing merchants who ordered me these. Took 3 days to arrive however these had to be collected in person and the tube which housed these was hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

If all else failed I would had gone with these - PVC Warehouse: 10mm Hollow Soffit Black Hollow Cladding


----------



## Alex M

I'm very impressed with your craftsmanship, Terrarium Supplies - I hope all your hard work is rewarded with good breeding results.

Stu - a quick off topic question - is that you in the latest Practical Reptile Keeping? I flicked through it today and thought that must be you - if so, I'll buy a copy tomorrow and have a read. 'Hoppy Newt Year' buddy, hope Shaz and your good self are well, cheers Al


----------



## DrNick

Decent PVC L-profile is indeed a PITA to source, and EXPENSIVE (more expensive than aluminium, in fact, which I always found a tad baffling...). The tape is by no means essential, but it looks pretty good and surely can't hurt. 

I've only ever used 6mm polycarbonate and taken a much more low-tech approach to construction (a la Dendroworks). Nevertheless my vivs are all self-supporting and seriously sturdy. I'd say the extra work and materials here are mainly for aesthetic purposes, which is obviously no bad thing! The finished product should look great where as mine is, well, 'functional' looking..... ;-)

Nick


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

DrNick said:


> Decent PVC L-profile is indeed a PITA to source, and EXPENSIVE (more expensive than aluminium, in fact, which I always found a tad baffling...).


Nick you raised a very valid point here. Allum profiles are indeed cheaper of which I could of got these from B&Q or Wickes - baffling indeed.


----------



## soundstounite

ali angle probably cheeper here www. aluminiumwarehouse,co. uk

Al,i'll pm ya mate HPY hope your great

Stu


----------



## Ron Magpie

Alex M said:


> I'm very impressed with your craftsmanship, Terrarium Supplies - I hope all your hard work is rewarded with good breeding results.
> 
> *Stu - a quick off topic question - is that you in the latest Practical Reptile Keeping? I flicked through it today and thought that must be you - if so, I'll buy a copy tomorrow and have a read. 'Hoppy Newt Year' buddy, hope Shaz and your good self are well, cheers Al*


Yep, and apparently he will be featured in Jays article next month, too- 'Our Stu' is a bit of a star... :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## fatlad69

Ron Magpie said:


> Yep, and apparently he will be featured in Jays article next month, too- 'Our Stu' is a bit of a star... :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


Don't you mean "The Dendroking". :lol2:


----------



## Arcadiajohn

oi thats my name for him!:whistling2:



fatlad69 said:


> Don't you mean "The Dendroking". :lol2:


----------



## mantella

I read that article. Where does 250 species of dart frogs come from? ' 'Dendroking' lol.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

As requested and following on from here: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/10832968-post87.html

First I started on the top sides as these are pivotal points. Measuring each side individually as they differ slightly from side to side.










Using the correct width I marked out where to cut using pencil.










Laying the L profile against the table trim as this reduces the risk of cracking or splitting the plastic.
(Tip make the cut fast and don't hesitate as this gives a cleaner finish)



















Once cut I then checked the width.










Next up was the bonding. There are loads of different types of this stuff however and I cannot stress this enough... Use a frame sealant as this is the only stuff that will touch the PVC plastic. The one I use is '151 Frame Sealant' - you can only get this stuff in white which is a real shame as black would do an even better job. This stuff is cheap as chips in fact I picked this lot of up £3.00 in Poundland!

*Total unit build to date £854.07*


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I applied a small amount onto the top end edges as this is the bonding area.



















Once ready I flipped over the profile and gave them a good firm press into place (wipe any residue that may leak out fast as this stuff dries pretty quickly).





































Whilst this stuff was curing I swiftly moved onto the top front and back panels.



















Only a small spot is needed here as the bond is only being made on the top corners.



















You can start to see the finish and why I decided to do this.



















Before moving onto the base the top needed a few more minutes so I moved onto the lower runner track.



















The corners must be cut out as I want the glass doors to fit snug into the profile walls (OCD!!).




























Now it was straight onto the base as you only have about 20 minutes to get this lot pined together before it dries and bonds.


----------



## fatlad69

It definitely gives a professional finish.


----------



## zekee

Ordered all my polycarbonate from the place you linked me too  just awaiting the other bits and pieces to arrive then I can start my build, doubt it will be anywhere near as good as yours though


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Ordered all my polycarbonate from the place you linked me too  just awaiting the other bits and pieces to arrive then I can start my build, doubt it will be anywhere near as good as yours though


Hey nice one zekee :2thumb: what have you gone for 10mm or 16mm?


----------



## zekee

10mm, the video I linked you to in pm was 10mm so guessing it would be fine


----------



## tomcannon

I've just read through as best as I could, very impressive! Look forward to seeing the end result and how you rare the Arcadia products, especially the d3 flood as its on my wish list! : victory:


----------



## zekee

Just I case anyone wanted to see what is possible with 10mm polycarbonate take a look at this:

YouTube

Will stop hijacking this thread now


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

With time against me due to the fast drying time I had to pretty much delve right into things starting with flipping the entire viv over onto the hood.










Mirroring the exact same steps as I did with the top I cut the profiles with one exception. I ran the frame sealant across the entire width.




























With both top and base in place I had to quickly flip the viv on its back so to aid this I lightly pinned down the profiles with some black elec tape. Do not by any means use regular sticky tape!!










Next I measured out the front profiles being careful to get the next part spot on as these are finishing struts of which are in full view.



















To make the 45 degree angle simple get an off-cut and run a pencil down the width to find the correct line.













































I only used a small spot for the contact area.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Next up was drilling out some pilot holes ready for the Black Jap Screws. These are positioned on the front brace and side struts to give stability... and to be honest I quite like the look of them.




























I continued round the viv quickly with drying time now against me.



















I dusted down the viv, cut the access tape from under the profiles and give it a good going over and as you can see, another Poly viv ready to rock and roll. This time on a much larger scale.


----------



## zekee

They look stunning mate, your attention to detail is second to none!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

So whilst I had some free time this afternoon I started on the four smaller viv interiors. Nothing new here as I need a base to work from. A simple Polyfoam and small/med plant pot distribution. Another thing that I feel is relevant that Polyfoam loves Polycarbonate - a match made in heaven.... god help me if I ever needed to remove the foam from the inners as they bond together like clockwork. Normally with glass you get the odd drip baring down the walls but this stuff just holds tight!

*Viv 1*










*Viv 2*










*Viv 3*










*Viv 4*










*Section 1*









*
Section 2*










UV test on the Nikon - these T8 Euro's seems super bright so slightly concerned. Will have to do so more testing before the frogs move in.


----------



## zekee

Looking good, what are your plans for plants, or does this depend on what species you keep in them?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

No plans on the flora yet mate. I'll start with the background base and work from there I think. I'm not going to be faffing around with waterfalls and all that jazz as I like to keep my frogs super clean and tidy. Had a better success rate by keeping on top things - simple things like weekly spot cleaning, removal of dead feeders and the likes. I enjoy the big clean out as it gives me a chance to see the little beauties in all their glory. Happy days!!


----------



## fatlad69

This thread is very inspirational, I always fancied building a viv but the thought of making it out of glass terrified me. Now I think I may have a go using you method. I am also looking forward to seeing Zekee build his turtle tub.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> This thread is very inspirational, I always fancied building a viv but the thought of making it out of glass terrified me. Now I think I may have a go using you method. I am also looking forward to seeing Zekee build his turtle tub.


To be honest I don't know why more people don't build there own tanks. I did build a few out of glass, one which of cracked booo!! From here on in Adam I'll be using these from now on. Been stalking around the house to see where more of these custom vivs can go. We have a spare alcove of which a large/tall Polly would fit a treat so I guess this may be the next big project. Would also like to make some small frog nurseries and rain chambers... god the list goes on :whistling2:- Tom are you planning on documenting your Poly viv in the Shelled forums or are you having a trial run first...?


----------



## zekee

I will do a trial run first, but can post my results if they will interest people? Will probably post in the habitat section. I've been pacing my place for the last few months wondering where I can squeeze a tank in, I ended up buying a pretty large shed, which is a turtle room....i know I keep saying this but, these are exceptional examples of housing, you could sell these James!


----------



## ginna

These are really really Good


----------



## Heart4Darts

Just out of interest, and considering these look amazing, do you think these would work just as they are, or do you feel they have to go into a wooden setup?
i think they look amazing, do you think their strong enough to hold glass running doors? if so, there is no reason why someone couldnt copy this setup and make a few and leave them as they are.
seriously mate, their amazing.


----------



## fatlad69

Have a look here. No quit the same quality as the one on here but seem to do the job.
Constructing a Polycarbonate Vivarium


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> I will do a trial run first, but can post my results if they will interest people? Will probably post in the habitat section. I've been pacing my place for the last few months wondering where I can squeeze a tank in, I ended up buying a pretty large shed, which is a turtle room....i know I keep saying this but, these are exceptional examples of housing, you could sell these James!


I've always fancied an outbuilding of such so maybe this could be on the cards this summer. Not too sure about selling these as they take a fair while to build. Think I need to build a good few more to streamline the process first :lol2:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Heart4Darts said:


> Just out of interest, and considering these look amazing, do you think these would work just as they are, or do you feel they have to go into a wooden setup?
> i think they look amazing, do you think their strong enough to hold glass running doors? if so, there is no reason why someone couldnt copy this setup and make a few and leave them as they are.
> seriously mate, their amazing.


Like Adam said, there is no doubt you could have these Poly vivs as stand alone tanks. If you get a good finish on them then you could in theory put these anywhere. They are so very light and robust so could be placed on floating shelves in a daisy chain fashion. I rec that would look quite good.

** typos


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Like Adam said, there is no doubt you could have these Poly vivs as stand alone tanks. If you get a good finish on them then you could in theory put these anywhere. They are so very light and robust so could be placed on floating shelves in a daisy chain fashion. I rec that would look quite good.
> 
> ** typos


Yes Dendroworks have theirs on floating shelves. The beauty is you can buy your a shelving unit and then make the vivs to fit. That way if you rubbish at woodwork, like me, you can get the same look as you have acheived without the hard work. :lol2:

Adam


----------



## fatlad69

I wonder how easy it would be to make a light canopy this way, you could cover it in black fablon to stop the light escaping. Would it stand up to the heat build up?


----------



## frogman955

Terrarium Supplies said:


> I've always fancied an outbuilding of such so maybe this could be on the cards this summer. *Not too sure about selling these as they take a fair while to build.* Think I need to build a good few more to streamline the process first :lol2:


James you charge according to what your time is worth etc.
People will pay for a quality product and i`ve noticed over the last couple of years that many are dying to get their mits on decent polycarb vivs.
So once you`ve perfected your assembly of these why not reward yourself for your efforts and sell them to those who want them.
I`d bet that you`ll have a queue at your door.

Mike


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> That way if you rubbish at woodwork, like me, you can get the same look as you have acheived without the hard work.


That's a good point Adam. You can get floating shelves quite cheap from Ikea so would look great all lined up.



fatlad69 said:


> I wonder how easy it would be to make a light canopy this way, you could cover it in black fablon to stop the light escaping. Would it stand up to the heat build up?


I've had one of the tanks under a high 75W Arcadia Spot Light and UV Flood and it does not seem to be warping. This stuff can stand up to the heat but not sure how one would create a canopy? Here are some tech notes from the manufactures Multiwall Polycarbonate Sheet | Marlon ST Longlife | Rooflights & Glazing | Brett Martin



frogman955 said:


> James you charge according to what your time is worth etc.
> People will pay for a quality product and i`ve noticed over the last couple of years that many are dying to get their mits on decent polycarb vivs.
> So once you`ve perfected your assembly of these why not reward yourself for your efforts and sell them to those who want them.
> I`d bet that you`ll have a queue at your door.
> 
> Mike


I've had a few requests via PM and Facebook Mike for a custom poly viv. I guess I could make some @ cost price to start with but I'm so busy at work finding the time would be difficult. Interesting stuff tho!


----------



## ronnyjodes

Terrarium Supplies said:


> I've had a few requests via PM and Facebook Mike for a custom poly viv. I guess I could make some @ cost price to start with but I'm so busy at work finding the time would be difficult. Interesting stuff tho!


The thought had crossed my mind to PM you myself fella as the build quality so far has been superb and your attention to detail has really paid off.


----------



## fatlad69

Sell them flat pack!:lol2:


----------



## frogman955

I`m going to throw this out into the public domain.
Sorry Ade.
Well i`m not really lol.
James, how about bringing one of your vivs along to the BAKS meet in april ?
Ade was thinking about planting a viv up at the meet as a demo to let people get a feel for how simple it can be.
Could kill 2 birds with one stone there.
Ade has a viv to work on and you get one decorated for free :2thumb:.
It`s something we had been discussing and of course this thought just came into my head.

Mike


----------



## ronnyjodes

frogman955 said:


> I`m going to throw this out into the public domain.
> Sorry Ade.
> Well i`m not really lol.
> James, how about bringing one of your vivs along to the BAKS meet in april ?
> Ade was thinking about planting a viv up at the meet as a demo to let people get a feel for how simple it can be.
> Could kill 2 birds with one stone there.
> Ade has a viv to work on and you get one decorated for free :2thumb:.
> It`s something we had been discussing and of course this thought just came into my head.
> 
> Mike


Yeah I'd spoken to him about it too but there was the point of the viv not being used after being planted and being sat about in Ades house and being difficult to transport to and from the venue but this covers both points in an "everybody wins" kind of way.

Also, James, if you'd built a few excess ones you could sell them there. I'm near enough convinced you'd sell out.


----------



## FA154L

Im following this...got to say youve got skill and a fat wallet lol 

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD


----------



## frogman955

ronnyjodes said:


> Yeah I'd spoken to him about it too but there was the point of *the viv not being used after being planted and being sat about in Ades house and being difficult to transport to and from the venue* but this covers both points in an "everybody wins" kind of way.
> 
> Also, James, *if you'd built a few excess ones you could sell them there*. I'm near enough convinced you'd sell out.


Transporting the viv was one of the things we discussed just last night so yes this solves a major problem.
Also i`m in agreement that there is a very real possibility that you could sell some vivs on the day.
It`s certainly something worth thinking about, especially as there`s 3 months to get prepared.

Mike


----------



## fatlad69

Make one have it planted then sell it or auction it off on the day.

Adam


----------



## frogman955

fatlad69 said:


> Make one have it planted then sell it or auction it off on the day.
> 
> Adam


Haha that was also discussed last night Adam.
It`s good to see though that what we have discussed is actually falling in line with what other people are thinking.
It means we are heading along the right road.

Mike


----------



## DrNick

fatlad69 said:


> Sell them flat pack!:lol2:


No LOL required! This is how I get mine... If you get the materials cut to size from somewhere like Polycarbonate Shop - Polycarbonate cut to size it doesn't cost much more, makes things much quicker and really all you need is silicone and profiling. It really couldn't be easier!

This is how it comes:








Nick


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Probably a good idea and would not have a problem in doing so. Will be making BAKS this year with loads of little froggies anyway (have we got the dates confirmed yet?)! Could build a demo poly viv for Ade to work with and sell these as I could literally stack about 50 behind my stall lol!! Making 50 however is a challenge in itself. Sod this lets do a vivexotic and get a buyout for 2.2 million by Hagen ''wink wink'' :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:.


Nick I got the Poly pre-cut for me FOC by the company. Would be nice to get 'click n fit' into practise. Maybe something I could outsource in alibaba.com


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Recycle Hollow Polycarbonate Sheet - Buy Colored Polycarbonate Sheet,Recycle Polycarbonate Sheet,White Polycarbonate Sheet Product on Alibaba.com

Can even get 'black poly' woot woot (now we talking)!! Min order 100 pieces ?! Could just see the mrs face when the containers comes in from china with this lot


----------



## frogman955

Well James this is your chance.

People he is now taking orders for poly carb vivs to be collected from the BAKS meet on 21st april :2thumb:
Place your orders before it`s too late :lol2:


Mike


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

frogman955 said:


> Well James this is your chance.
> 
> People he is now taking orders for poly carb vivs to be collected from the BAKS meet on 21st april :2thumb:
> Place your orders before it`s too late :lol2:
> 
> 
> Mike


LOL Mike:lol2:


----------



## ronnyjodes

I'll take one


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

What you rec guys - making a rod for my own back here lol!!!


----------



## frogman955

Haha you made the rod James and i`m doin the whipping yeeehaaaaaa :whip: :lol2:


Mike


----------



## ronnyjodes

Terrarium Supplies said:


> What you rec guys - making a rod for my own back here lol!!!
> 
> [URL=http://i46.tinypic.com/imrrx2.jpg]image[/URL]



Haha yeah just a bit. You now have legal obligation to make and sell these mate :lol2:

Also as a side note your web design work is really good too. Don't let your now big head hit the door frame on the way out of the thread  lol


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

LOL guys... I can feel a dragons den moment coming into fruition!!


----------



## dazdaraz

fatlad69 said:


> I wonder how easy it would be to make a light canopy this way, you could cover it in black fablon to stop the light escaping. Would it stand up to the heat build up?



i think this is totally possible.

make them low profile, like the Arcadia slim things, put a reflector in the top to maximize light output, add vents to keep cool, and fans if it still gets too hot.


Daz


----------



## fatlad69

Cheers


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

dazdaraz said:


> i think this is totally possible.
> 
> make them low profile, like the Arcadia slim things, put a reflector in the top to maximize light output, add vents to keep cool, and fans if it still gets too hot.
> 
> 
> Daz


Good idea Daz - I personally cannot see any problems if done this. Like Daz said, make these low profile with a reflector running across the entire width. Maybe some acrylic 'hidden' hinges for access and some 30mm side vents for heat buildup. You could probably go to town even further and incorporate some usb fans, led strips and of course duel probe thermos/hydros all hooked up to one master system. I have a great idea that would work a rudy treat but don't want to spoil things as I have taken 3 commission builds to test out my skills further. :whistling2:


----------



## ronnyjodes

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Good idea Daz - I personally cannot see any problems if done this. Like Daz said, make these low profile with a reflector running across the entire width. Maybe some acrylic 'hidden' hinges for access and some 30mm side vents for heat buildup. You could probably go to town even further and incorporate some usb fans, led strips and of course duel probe thermos/hydros all hooked up to one master system. I have a great idea that would work a rudy treat but don't want to spoil things as I have taken 3 commission builds to test out my skills further. :whistling2:


Drop me a pm James as I wouldn't mind being the 4th depending on costs :2thumb:


----------



## Wolfenrook

Just something you might find useful from the aquaris DIY crowd, they build light fittings using lengths of drain pipe with the end pieces fitted, and lined with some form of aluminium. They can look quite smart done well.

Ade


----------



## Ron Magpie

Wolfenrook said:


> Just something you might find useful from the aquaris DIY crowd, they build light fittings using lengths of drain pipe with the end pieces fitted, and lined with some form of aluminium. They can look quite smart done well.
> 
> Ade


That's exactly the system I use for my FBT tank. :2thumb:


----------



## fatlad69

Ron Magpie said:


> That's exactly the system I use for my FBT tank. :2thumb:


Hi Ron have you got a picture so I have a better understanding of how it's done?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ron Magpie said:


> That's exactly the system I use for my FBT tank. :2thumb:


would be good to see Ron.



ronnyjodes said:


> Drop me a pm James as I wouldn't mind being the 4th depending on costs :2thumb:


Jon pm to follow tonight mate :2thumb:


----------



## Ron Magpie

fatlad69 said:


> Hi Ron have you got a picture so I have a better understanding of how it's done?





Terrarium Supplies said:


> would be good to see Ron.
> 
> 
> 
> Jon pm to follow tonight mate :2thumb:


 Haven't got any decent pics, but I'll load the ones I have on my phone this evening and talk you through it in the meantime; cut a piece of guttering to the required length (in this case it was for a 24" tank, so it was cut to 20", to take an 18" tube). I used the angled kind, as opposed to rounded, as I felt it would give more usable height for the tube, and also be easier to mount the clips. These were the usual plastic tube holder clips, supplied with the starter unit. I melted holes in the guttering at the spacing I wanted- drilling would work just as well, but I used the 'Hot Skewer Method' :lol2: and used a small nut and bolt each to secure. The end pieces in theory just clip on- in practice they are really tough to fix, and watch out for your fingers- and they have enough leeway to cover minor imperfections if your cutting wasn't totally straight :blush:.
It does look surprisingly neat- as I said, though, my pictures are rubbish.


----------



## zekee

What do you use as a reflective backing? Or do you just leave them as they are?


----------



## Ron Magpie

Ron Magpie said:


> Haven't got any decent pics, but I'll load the ones I have on my phone this evening and talk you through it in the meantime; cut a piece of guttering to the required length (in this case it was for a 24" tank, so it was cut to 20", to take an 18" tube). I used the angled kind, as opposed to rounded, as I felt it would give more usable height for the tube, and also be easier to mount the clips. These were the usual plastic tube holder clips, supplied with the starter unit. I melted holes in the guttering at the spacing I wanted- drilling would work just as well, but I used the 'Hot Skewer Method' :lol2: and used a small nut and bolt each to secure. The end pieces in theory just clip on- in practice they are really tough to fix, and watch out for your fingers- and they have enough leeway to cover minor imperfections if your cutting wasn't totally straight :blush:.
> It does look surprisingly neat- as I said, though, my pictures are rubbish.


Crappy pictures duly uploaded to my profile picture album!



zekee said:


> What do you use as a reflective backing? Or do you just leave them as they are?


I used ordinary kitchen foil- proper tube reflectors would be worth trying, though.


----------



## zekee

They don't look all that bad, may consider these, instead of paying for reflectors, love a bit of diy


----------



## Ron Magpie

zekee said:


> *They don't look all that bad*, may consider these, instead of paying for reflectors, love a bit of diy


I *was* referring to the crappy *pictures*, *not* my rather excellent bit of construction... :whistling2:


----------



## zekee

So was I ...


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ron Magpie said:


> I *was* referring to the crappy *pictures*, *not* my rather excellent bit of construction... :whistling2:


Ron cant you get some better shots lol! Would like to see this closer.. i.e. under the under and end caps etc..


----------



## fatlad69

They do look rather good and make it quite versatile regarding tubes.


----------



## fatlad69

Found this on YouTube. Very neat http://youtu.be/Z_pP2_L_lzIp


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

These do look very neat and tidy. Don't like the huge pipe on the side though. I'm all for clean and crisp designs however that could probably be sorted without any reach hitch. The next Polys I build will hopefully have these in place - Just need to have a word with Mr Arcadia regarding heat build up. Liking all this DIY stuff - anything to save some costs eh £££££?!!!


----------



## fatlad69

Here is his build guide DIY Rain Gutter Aquarium Hood . I agree about the piece sticking up but as long as its against a wall you wouldn't need it.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Good find Adam. Just out of curiosity mate are you looking at building something like this along with a custom viv or two?

Tom has your Poly arrived from Nick Gray yet? Any teasers for us?


----------



## fatlad69

Eventually, need to finish the exo Terra for my tincs first.


----------



## zekee

Polly not arrived yet guys, should be with me on Wednesday, still awaiting silicone too....patience James


----------



## Wolfenrook

Another option would be to combine the rain gutter method with an Osram Dulux set up for smaller vivs, make sure to chose the electronic ballast option though, and you WILL need some 40mm fans for exhausting the hot air produced, they run very hot.

Lighting Price List

Remembering from when I had some, the 'aluminium light hood' would be quite easily attached inside the guttering, with some form of spacer to keep it from contacting witht he plastic of the gutter.

A quick disclaimer though, obviously there is a risk when mixing DIY with electricity in any way. Your construction may not be as safe as a commercially manufactured unit which has undergone stringent safety tests etc before been put on the market. So you dabble with this stuff at your own risk.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I was thinking a long the lines of hooking up a commercial light unit like Arcadia T5 Light Controller. Don't fancy messing around with electronics!! Like I did with the UV Flood > make a small bridge to bring the light away from the PVC and let the aluminium ridged profile bare the heat. Reducing the risk of anything melting. Not quite as high tech and bespoke as the link Adam provided but a sure fire way of creating a custom hood that fits the job well? Still retaining some side vents with gaps either side of the Light Controller for a pair of micro-fans. Maybe even some cut-out sections in the PVC guttering to fit some digital temp/hydro probes. Just some of the options I'm going to weigh up.


----------



## Ron Magpie

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Ron cant you get some better shots lol! Would like to see this closer.. i.e. under the under and end caps etc..


 Not sure I'll get anything up for a while- not only do I not have a decent camera, but my home laptop may have died the Final Death! :devil:


----------



## zekee

My poly has arrived  stupid question....but how's best to cut a hole to fit drain plugs? My cheapo hole cutters a bit inaccurate....


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> My poly has arrived  stupid question....but how's best to cut a hole to fit drain plugs? My cheapo hole cutters a bit inaccurate....


woot woot! Tom go out and invest in a decent hole cutter mate (with arbour) depending on the size of holes you want. Wet the Poly surface first prior to drilling out with some damp poly roll and wear some protective goggles as PVC strands fly everywhere :lol2:


----------



## zekee

Any ideas where to get one local is b & q, homebase, wickes...


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

any of them mate - I got mine from b&q


----------



## zekee

Cheers mate, silicone also arrived today, but was shipped to works address, so may have to pop down b & q via work....


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ok so onwards and upwards... started work on viv #1 today. Began with taking a few shots to compare some before and after shots so I can look back on the progress.

*Viv 1 *










*Viv 1* after some tweaking to the poly foam, cutting it back slightly to make way for some features.










I'm going down the GG method as I have everything I need in storage. First up was the GG, brush and spray.










Tilting the Poly viv on its side, I applied the GG and gave it a light mist with water and aggregated it so it became spongy. 










After 10 or so minutes, the GG was tacky so I started covering it with a mix of coco fibre and peat.



















Also worth giving a shout out to Ade for providing me with some great creepers that will be going into some of the vivs (pumilla, columbia, panama and oak leaf). Top man!


----------



## ronnyjodes

Very nice mate, I really cant wait to see that racking system filled and planted and brimming with frogs.

Coincidentally I'm putting an order in for some creepers later for a couple of viv projects, I've not been able to do much over Christmas but I've been itching to get started again, I'm jealous you're able to start before me haha.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

ronnyjodes said:


> Very nice mate, I really cant wait to see that racking system filled and planted and brimming with frogs.


Yeah, been around 2 months since I started this so really need to get cracking with it all now. So much more ground to cover me thinks!



ronnyjodes said:


> I'm jealous you're able to start before me haha.


You'll be pleased to know that I have a full weekend to spend on these now and will no doubt enjoy every minute of it :2thumb: Like you say mate, now the bulk is done, the party really gets started. Will also be testing out some new bits along the way woot woot...!!!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

With viv 1 now drying out it gives me a chance to look at ways to recreate the first mini eco system. Viv 1 will be based on the Contadora Rainforest that resides in Panama.


As seen in the image, the place looks very lush! High canopy tops that is engulfed with intertwining vines that seem to swallow the jungle alive, abundant large leafed plants and creepers seem to haunt this place - Perfecto!!!

**Edit - if any eagle eyed *can spot any plants* from this picture then please shout out.










Right this is what is on the shopping list for now as once the background and sides have dried off I need to get planting sooner rather than later:


Panamanian Heartleaf Plant











Panamanian creeping fig (Ade has provided me this already) 











Panamanian Banana Plant (this one is going to be difficult to source).











The tree, branches and vines I can re-create so fingers crossed and all. If I can get viv 1 as vibrant and lush in vegetation as the picture above then I'll be a very happy chappy.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Best advice I can give bud is, go for plants that look similar but on a smaller scale. Biotopes in vivs can be a real mistake, with most plants in natural habitats growing far too large for anything but a greenhouse.

A perfect example is when you see pics of philodendrons with huge round leaves hugging the trunks of trees, there are some nice little marcgravia that give a very similar look. That babana plant, I am thinking something like hygrophila corymbosa adapted to terrestrial growth might give a similar look, or hygrophila salicifolia. Both are sold for aquariums, but usually come having been grown hydroponically.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> hygrophila corymbosa or hygrophila salicifolia


Does that mean these can spend the later above water Ade?


----------



## Wolfenrook

So long as humidity is high enough, I'd say so yes. It may need growing near a water area though to keep it's feet wet. Emmersed Hygrophila Corymbosa | UK Aquatic Plant Society

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> So long as humidity is high enough, I'd say so yes. It may need growing near a water area though to keep it's feet wet. Emmersed Hygrophila Corymbosa | UK Aquatic Plant Society
> 
> Ade



:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb: awesome! This may sound anal but is there anything aquatic or semi-aquatic that you know of from Panama in particular? Maybe edging towards southern Costa-Rica?


----------



## Wolfenrook

Looking at those pics, it doesn't look quite as good grown emmersed. lol


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> Looking at those pics, it doesn't look quite as good grown emmersed. lol


I'm venturing into the unknown with aquatics here... I've seen loads of great looking plants under water and had no idea these could venture out and be planted (with exceptions of course!).


----------



## Wolfenrook

Terrarium Supplies said:


> :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb: awesome! This may sound anal but is there anything aquatic or semi-aquatic that you know of from Panama in particular? Maybe edging towards southern Costa-Rica?


Most aquatic plants found in South America bud are found all over the region. That said, most in the trade are from Asia and Africa. Obvious exceptions been echinodorus (aka. Amazon sword plants). Hygrophila for example are mostly Asian.

Hmmm, leave it with me, let me have a think on it.

Ade


----------



## Wolfenrook

Found a thread you might find useful panama jungle plants?? - Dendroboard.


----------



## fatlad69

Just for info I had some perspex cut today at a place in Walsall called Fibre Craft Plastics Www.fibrecraftplastics.co.uk . He said he will cut and ship polycarbonate to order. He is also looking to supply UV passing perspex and may start building vivs from this. 

Just thought you may be interested.

Adam


----------



## Wolfenrook

I certainly am.

A word of caution with normal acrylic (perspex) though. I am temporarily using a sheet over the door area in my Sisa tank (conversion). It's only been on about a week and already it's starting to warp. I've seen this before, even with fairly small sheets. It's why I prefer to use Lexan (sheet polycarb) or UVx passing acrylic.

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

Wolfenrook said:


> I certainly am.
> 
> A word of caution with normal acrylic (perspex) though. I am temporarily using a sheet over the door area in my Sisa tank (conversion). It's only been on about a week and already it's starting to warp. I've seen this before, even with fairly small sheets. It's why I prefer to use Lexan (sheet polycarb) or UVx passing acrylic.
> 
> Ade


I have a exo terra viv with the lid converted with standard 4mm perspex. its been done for a few years and still looks great. I wonder if different brands react differently? No idea what sort mine was as I ordered it online cut to size.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Could be Adam, or the top of your exo doesn't get as warm and humid. 

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

Wolfenrook said:


> Could be Adam, or the top of your exo doesn't get as warm and humid.
> 
> Ade


It definitely get humid but not sure how hot it gets, it has and exo terra hood with 2 compact bulbs.


----------



## GECKO MICK

These are looking awesome.Keep up the good work.:2thumb:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Touching some new ground for me was to look at ways to replicate the intertwining vines as I want these to play a part in the eco system. As seen in one of my earlier pictures of the Contadora Rainforest, Panama. So I popped out to get a few supplies. I came back with x3 1m lengths of natural rope that set me back a mere £2.98 of which I got a 10mm, 6mm and 4mm.

*Total unit build to date £857.05

*Here are the 3 sizes together.










First up was to unpick the large 10mm piece.



















Once unpicked I roughed it up a little making it look more natural.










Once the 10mm piece was complete I mirrored the steps on the 6mm piece.





































Now with both pieces ready I began weaving them in out around each other randomly.










You can see the effect here.



















Next up was some storeroom essentials. HA6 brown silicone and some rubber gloves as I knew this was going to be messy!










Finally got trays of mixed coco-fibre, peat and spag moss.










For obvious reasons (not messing up the Nikon!) I could not show you the steps fo coating this but I'm sure you get the idea. Smoother your gloves with silicone and bond away.

Here is the final piece and to say this was my first stab at it I'm pretty chuffed. Just need to replicate this about 8 times lol!





































It still drying out so bits are still coming away but it feels quite robust - just hope these god damm things don't fall to bits over time, especially in wet/humid conditions. Will have to give these a thorough testing prior to fitting.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Seen a similar method used with nylon rope. Not sure hemp rope was a good idea though, as a natural fiber it'll be subject to rotting.

Ade


----------



## chrism

Try plastidip- can just dip the strands instead of messing with silicone.

I like it, looks good.

Seen this:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/57563-pics-my-new-constructed-vivarium.html


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

chrism said:


> Try plastidip- can just dip the strands instead of messing with silicone.
> 
> I like it, looks good.
> 
> Seen this:
> 
> Pics my new constructed vivarium - Dendroboard


Flippin' ell Chris now that is a piece! Can I ask.... what's 'plastidip'?


----------



## chrism

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Flippin' ell Chris now that is a piece! Can I ask.... what's 'plastidip'?


Is pretty much rubber paint.

In small gecko vivs i've poored it straight on glass and then threw dry substrate on, and in big builds painted it over foam, wood etc.

Totally harmless, and so much easier than silicone or gorillacr*p.

PlastiDip - Plasti Dip / Paint For Fishing Lures & Lines | eBay


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Well people say that you learn something everyday - I know I have! Never knew such a product was available commercially. Cheers Chris!

What is the drying time on this stuff and does it go a long way? I take it that the fumes are strong with this stuff prior to drying out?


----------



## chrism

chrism said:


> i've poored


Probably pour instead of poo though!


----------



## chrism

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Well people say that you learn something everyday - I know I have! Never knew such a product was available commercially. Cheers Chris!
> 
> What is the drying time on this stuff and does it go a long way? I take it that the fumes are strong with this stuff prior to drying out?


 
Fumes aint as bad as silicone. All in all is just a better product!

Dries in a few hours, said fully cures in 24.

The small tub I did the whole background and half sides of a 36 x 15 tank so not bad for £14 ish compared to how many silicone tubes you need.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Think I'm gonna try this out, cheers Chris.


----------



## fatlad69

Me too!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Me too!


Adam, you still build using epoxy and rocko? what you rec about this rubber paint?


----------



## fatlad69

Yes still using both. I am thinking of maybe making some vines using this plasti dip. I want something a bit thicker and stiffer ( don't we all ) than cord. I thought about some aquarium pipe with maybe wire from a coat hanger inserted down the middle to give it some rigidity. Then coat it in the plasti dip and cover with tree fern fibre. I could wrap the cord around it. Don't know whether it will work. If successful may still use the rockoflex but ditch the epoxy.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> I want something a bit thicker and stiffer ( don't we all )


Ron's ears prick up :mf_dribble:

Sounds like a good plan. That piece I did earlier is currently undergoing some testing in a dormant rain chamber as like Ade said earlier... it will more likely than not have a poor shelf life!!!

I think I'm going to run with this rubber paint thing. 750ml in brown - Chris legend!! :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


----------



## fatlad69

Let me know how it works out. Could prove to be a great product for viv design.

Nice one Chris!


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Ron's ears prick up :mf_dribble:
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to run with this rubber paint thing. 750ml in brown - Chris legend!! :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


Where did you find it in brown?


----------



## fatlad69

fatlad69 said:


> Where did you find it in brown?


Found it.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

was just replying lol


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ok so I've just ordered some of this rubber paint to see how it fares. Don't really fancy going down the GG as it takes rudy ages to do!! Hoping this rubber paint will be the new 'killer' source so watch this space.


----------



## fatlad69

I am going to give it a try but will have to wait till payday.


----------



## Spikebrit

chrism said:


> Is pretty much rubber paint.
> 
> In small gecko vivs i've poored it straight on glass and then threw dry substrate on, and in big builds painted it over foam, wood etc.
> 
> Totally harmless, and so much easier than silicone or gorillacr*p.
> 
> PlastiDip - Plasti Dip / Paint For Fishing Lures & Lines | eBay



You got any pics of this in use?? seriously considering having a go with this. 

Jay


----------



## chrism

Will add some at work tomorrow. 
Only got iPhone out of hrs as laptop died.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Would be good to see Chris. I'm still waiting for this tin to be delivered but I've got a feeling I'm not going to see it anytime soon due to the ever declining weather. Itching to get back on with the build and hate being delayed with so much yet to complete.... grrrrr!


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Would be good to see Chris. I'm still waiting for this tin to be delivered but I've got a feeling I'm not going to see it anytime soon due to the ever declining weather. Itching to get back on with the build and hate being delayed with so much yet to complete.... grrrrr!


Lucky you, I have to wait as Brown is out of stock!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Lucky you, I have to wait as Brown is out of stock!


hehe, I have a habit of clearing the shelves.

You can always opt for Red or Yellow :mf_dribble: (or not...)


----------



## fatlad69

I suppose my tinc Patricia's would be quit camouflaged against yellow! As soon as I saw ' out of stock' I knew you must have bought the last one!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> I suppose my tinc Patricia's would be quit camouflaged against yellow! As soon as I saw ' out of stock' I knew you must have bought the last one!


Still some available Adam: PlastiDip - Plasti Dip / Flat Roof Paint | eBay

I went for the 750ml in Brown. Wonder how many vivs I can get out of this - Chris....? Any ideas mate??


----------



## chrism

Cant find many good vivs, but did this with about 3/4 of a can.

3ft back wall approx and sides, and another bonus is it'll stick big lumps!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Good to know course mediums works - my frogs would no doubt love to perch on these and utilise them as platforms. A bet plants would also like to crawl in and around them too. Gratz Chris.


----------



## zekee

Nice dog update James .

I've constructed my test tank, apart from a few leaks, where I didn't use enough silicone, its seems to be a great little tank


----------



## fatlad69

zekee said:


> Nice dog update James .
> 
> I've constructed my test tank, apart from a few leaks, where I didn't use enough silicone, its seems to be a great little tank


Without pictures it didn't happen!:lol2:


----------



## zekee

Can't post from phonemate, pictures on Facebook though


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Can't post from phonemate, pictures on Facebook though


Which Facebook Tom? your account is on lock down :devil:


----------



## zekee

Odd, its here:

http://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...00003027480566&set=o.124898670986586&refid=56

Not finished in that picture, as was water testing it  but will be finished in next couple of days , please excuse mess in kitchen


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Have you got the non-mobile format or URL to the album?


----------



## zekee

Facebook

Does that work?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Facebook
> 
> Does that work?


no mate - chuck the mobile in the snow and get on a pc or mac :2thumb:


----------



## zekee

Damn, netbooks buggered and can't be arsed to go on pc, will upload to my wall, you should be able to see them then!


----------



## zekee

on my wall


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

That looks fine to be honest. Will you be reinforcing the final product with the 'L' profiles? Hows the water now having been resealed? all good or still got leaks?


----------



## zekee

Still curing mate, will test again tomorrow, lesson learnt for the next ones though, don't be so minimal with the silicone, I could possibly add some L profiles, it would smarten the whole thing up a bit, in contemplating constructing a larger one now with a see through arcrylic front...ive got the bug


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> contemplating constructing a larger one now with a see through arcrylic front...ive got the bug


You've got the bug... I've started to source all materials on a commercial level. Loving how they retain the heat and weigh next to nothing (when empty of course). The profiles I added certainly does give them a premium finish and makes the whole unit stable.


----------



## zekee

I like the name too ecovivs, its catchy  so you have decided to sell them?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> I like the name too ecovivs, its catchy  so you have decided to sell them?


 That's not the name of them tbh... just covering my patenting tracks :whistling2: Got 11 orders now on commission and will soon be able to offer these at a very affordable rate. Flat packed all the way woot woot! Funny how things just fall into place sometimes... Who would of thought that a website developer could go into the reptile and amphibian housing market : victory:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

With this 'illusive' rubber paint still in transit I have not managed to do anymore on the build however I have down some more shopping! Dropping the coco-fibre for two 8L packs of Tree Fern (Xaxim) £19.98. 

*Total unit build to date £877.03*










Never used this stuff before but read loads of reports online... apparently this stuff is s##t hot! After opening one of the bags, I can see why!! The texture is somewhat more coarse than coco-fibre. 

There are loads of twigs, shavings and what look like nuts lol' in there as seen here (currently in drying trays).



















I'll being using the Xaxim on the background and sides as I have since removed the GG coco-fibre mix from viv 1 as I'm re-starting it from scratch with the new plasti-dip method.

I've also started to dry out some stock Spag Moss as I need everything to be as dry as a bone prior to application.



















Next on the list of new purchases was some jungle branches (bulk lot for £15.00). What I envisage or at least plan on doing it having this towards each of the sides in a vertical format. Basically trying to simulate or even replicate the earlier Panama picture I posted. These branches will act as tree shoots and will be engulfed by the custom vines I also need to re-do lol!!!










For the new vines and taking some great feedback and support from some of you guys, two 1m lengths of 10mm and 6mm 'Nylon' ropes costing a mere £1.98.










Also some new bits and bobs have started to trickle in. x25 10mm black inserts for the misting pipes to fit through. These fit nice and snug in the 10mm Poly and once again... make things very neat and tidy.










Whilst I'm still in transition with the new Arcadia lighting, I also managed to source some premium sticky foil (£8.99 for 3m) which will sit above all the light fitting for 'extra' reflection... boom booom. Not bad for a few days shopping whilst sitting, wiggling my thumbs!
*
Total unit build to date £903.03*


----------



## Ron Magpie

I know Ade has been raving about the xaxim- will the powdered stuff grow moss and so on as well, or is it only the panels that do that?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Maybe Ade or the other guys can shed more light onto this for us Ron. Before I purchased the Xaxim, I wanted to see it in the flesh so this was not a web order. I went to one of my local pet stores to see it before I flashed the cash. They had both the panels and substrate. The panels are rudy pricey!!! So my plan is to apply this stuff thick and heavy (hope the rubber paint can take it.... Chris?) so in theory, moss and the likes have some depth to grow in and on!

God knows what these nut will do. They look quite fresh and 'alive' to me - hope I don't get a massive flipping tree fern growing out the side of these vivs :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


----------



## Ron Magpie

Lol, it's the uncertainity that makes planted vivs so exciting!


----------



## Wolfenrook

If you want to be certain it sprouts moss, paint some moss slurry on it.  I do have some though that sprouted moss for me but it takes longer than if you slurry it.

Ade


----------



## Ron Magpie

Wolfenrook said:


> If you want to be certain it sprouts moss, paint some moss slurry on it.  I do have some though that sprouted moss for me but it takes longer than if you slurry it.
> 
> Ade


Interesting- I know about the slurry, of course, but I was interested in the spores present in the Xaxim- it's the thing that old-time keepers, using the 'bad treefern' (as in not sustainable) used to rave about.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Yeah, I've used the 'bad' tree fern, and over time it does sprout moss. For me though it's the wrong sort of moss, been very 'flat' looking, where with moss slurry you get moss growth sooner whatever you put it on, and it forms a more 3D type surface, with bumps and humps.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Guys whats the best method to make moss slurry? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. With this slurry stuff - it is just a case of putting the paste onto the fern and branches and is it harmful before it sprouts?


----------



## Wolfenrook

This is how I make it http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/749436-60-deep.html, and it's totally harmless as all that goes in there is peat, moss and water.

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

I use the rip web stuff with a bit of sphagnum, java and Xmas moss all blended with some water then paint it one. Seems to work for me.

Adam


----------



## Wolfenrook

fatlad69 said:


> I use the rip web stuff with a bit of sphagnum, java and Xmas moss all blended with some water then paint it one. Seems to work for me.
> 
> Adam


Autocorrect strikes again. lol


----------



## chrism

Once I've built my new viv ill have a load of xaxim panels to sell. 
Have about 30 here, will just depend on if I do back only, or back and sides. 
Wish the snow would clear so I can collect from Richie!!!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Will have to think of a sterling excuse as to why I need to use our kitchen blender for phib stuff. Especially slurry s##t! The mrs aint gonna like this.


----------



## Ron Magpie

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Will have to think of a sterling excuse as to why I need to use our kitchen blender for phib stuff. Especially slurry s##t! The mrs aint gonna like this.


:lol2::lol2::lol2: Buy yourself a cheapo blender purely for animal stuff- you'll find loads of uses for it.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I've got a spare pestle and mortar lol guessing this wont do the job! I'll have to add this to the ever growing list.


----------



## rachel81

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Will have to think of a sterling excuse as to why I need to use our kitchen blender for phib stuff. Especially slurry s##t! The mrs aint gonna like this.


 
just do it when the OH is out shopping ..... easy :blush:


----------



## Wolfenrook

It washes off really easily. lol

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

rachel81 said:


> just do it when the OH is out shopping ..... easy :blush:


I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face when she comes to uses it! Never mind thinking about the meal that is put in front of me :mf_dribbleI cook also by the way :whistling2


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> It washes off really easily. lol
> 
> Ade


How easy is easy :lol2: silicone is suppose to be easy to remove from the side of vivs however I have to resort to a glass scraper :bash:


----------



## zekee

The mrs is never happy where my turtles are concerned...you can't do that, you can't do this, blah, blah, blah....im used to it now so I just block it out


----------



## rachel81

Terrarium Supplies said:


> I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face when she comes to uses it! Never mind thinking about the meal that is put in front of me :mf_dribbleI cook also by the way :whistling2


yeah i guess... it brings a whole new meaning to *pesto*


----------



## Wolfenrook

Terrarium Supplies said:


> How easy is easy :lol2: silicone is suppose to be easy to remove from the side of vivs however I have to resort to a glass scraper :bash:


It rinses off under the tap. : victory: I put ours in the dishwasher after too, but then that's how we wash our dishes anyway. :lol2:


----------



## chrism

Killed laptop, so only on iPhone, but if someone pms me an email address ill send pics of 2 types of xaxim panels and how they've both grown for me. 

Use one type that throws out massive ferns etc, and another lumpy mosses and other things.


----------



## colinm

I like xaxim panels,I guess I must be old fashioned. :Na_Na_Na_Na:I have had lots of ferns grow out of them,they take time though.

The only thing that I would add is if you are going down this route with Phyllomedusa in my experience treefrogs like smooth surfaces to rest on. The panels also get very heavy when wet which may be a consideration.


----------



## Wolfenrook

colinm said:


> I like xaxim panels,I guess I must be old fashioned. :Na_Na_Na_Na:I have had lots of ferns grow out of them,they take time though.
> 
> The only thing that I would add is if you are going down this route with Phyllomedusa in my experience treefrogs like smooth surfaces to rest on. The panels also get very heavy when wet which may be a consideration.


So do I Colin. Of all the 'panel' type methods they tend to last the longest and look good from the outset. They get a bit expensive though.

To be honest though, I prefer them if I am going to put any sort of background inside the viv now. They're simple to attach and do a good job. Where all the glue methods etc are very prone to things going wrong. Most of the time though I prefer to put my backgrounds on the outside, with bare glass inside and decor for climbing space etc.

James, as Colin hints, go with bare glass bud. Then for the secure feeling of your frogs just put something on the outside (eg. black fablon). I actually have a photo of ficus growing up the glass of a viv even.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Bit too late now as I've already done the poly foam back 'and' sides. Just hoping the plasti-dip holds this stuff up well. All points taken on board though guys as I ride this tidal wave.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Don't be surprised if your frogs do their best to avoid climbing the back and sides bud. None of my tree frogs will go near xaxim or coco fiber backgrounds, only cork or bare glass.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

To be honest this could work in my favor as I don't like seeing my tigers swinging from the mesh tops lol!! When I see them doing this I want to be the over-protective mother and give them a helping hand back down to ground level. I gasp as their little fingers try to keep a grip as they struggle to proceed once up there.


----------



## Wolfenrook

You should have a look at Betta Lifespace vivs bud. The build quality is really really good.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

All I can see are Betta Lifespace Aquariums (unless you mean aqua) - do they have a unique top/lid to them or something?


----------



## Wolfenrook

They have sliding glass doors and a real stainless stell mesh top that is stronger and doesn't go rusty.

I'd link you to where I bought mine, but the site seems to have gone down.

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

Wolfenrook said:


> They have sliding glass doors and a real stainless stell mesh top that is stronger and doesn't go rusty.
> 
> I'd link you to where I bought mine, but the site seems to have gone down.
> 
> Ade


The site has been down for several days. When I visited the back end of last year the shop was really bare so it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't any longer trading.

Adam


----------



## Wolfenrook

fatlad69 said:


> The site has been down for several days. When I visited the back end of last year the shop was really bare so it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't any longer trading.
> 
> Adam


A shame if they have Adam, the vivs are really good, and their service was excellent.

I know there are other shops that stock them, but I don't know any that deliver them.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Oh god.... let there be life!!!

Must have been triggered by the warmth and light in the drying room haha' ''the nut has cracked''?

*** are these things suppose to sprout so fast when exposed???


----------



## Spikebrit

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Oh god.... let there be life!!!
> 
> Must have been triggered by the warmth and light in the drying room haha' ''the nut has cracked''?
> 
> *** are these things suppose to sprout so fast when exposed???
> 
> image



What was the substrate you used and where from?? might have to give this stuff a go. 

Is this the xaim substrate stuff you mentioned previously??

Jay


----------



## Ron Magpie

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Oh god.... let there be life!!!
> 
> Must have been triggered by the warmth and light in the drying room haha' ''the nut has cracked''?
> 
> *** are these things suppose to sprout so fast when exposed???
> 
> image


Whatever that is, it's a dicot (advanced plant) rather than a moss or fern.


----------



## Spikebrit

Ron Magpie said:


> Whatever that is, it's a dicot (advanced plant) rather than a moss or fern.


Watch it be a tree lol

jay


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ron Magpie said:


> Whatever that is, it's a dicot (advanced plant) rather than a moss or fern.


That's my worry Ron :lol2:



Spikebrit said:


> What was the substrate you used and where from?? might have to give this stuff a go.


Jay, from what I understand, this Xaxim is of the 'soft' variety of fern... I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong. It's just bog stand exo-whack as seen here mate: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/10884529-post249.html


----------



## Spikebrit

Terrarium Supplies said:


> That's my worry Ron :lol2:
> 
> 
> 
> Jay, from what I understand, this Xaxim is of the 'soft' variety of fern... I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong. It's just bog stand exo-whack as seen here mate: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/10884529-post249.html


Just found some in surry pet supplies so will be sticking in an order I think when i do the new vivs. 

jay


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Spikebrit said:


> Just found some in surry pet supplies so will be sticking in an order I think when i do the new vivs.
> 
> jay


Jay you going down the plasti-dip rubber paint route with this stuff?


----------



## colinm

Ron Magpie said:


> Whatever that is, it's a dicot (advanced plant) rather than a moss or fern.


Yep its not a fern.Bear with me O levels were a long time ago but ferns have a green sludgey stage before they reproduce into the fern or that we know.They take a long time to grow.


----------



## Spikebrit

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Jay you going down the plasti-dip rubber paint route with this stuff?


I dont think i will, wasn't overly sold by the pics. Though i might at some stage give it a go. 

I've got gorilla glue tanks here that have been up for nearly two years and i've never noticed a difference in them so will carry on with this route i think. I use this with pieces of wood etc fixed in place along with soil and broken xaxim panel pushed in. Though i might replace my standard compost with this soil stuff as compined with bits of panel it should grow moss even quicker. Will see how i feel when i finally get around to doing them. Though any ficus soon covers all the hard work anyway lol. 

Jay


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

colinm said:


> Bear with me O levels were a long time ago


We all now know Colin is a silver fox!


----------



## colinm

Terrarium Supplies said:


> We all now know Colin is a silver fox!


If only more like a silver back : victory:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Well this saga gets better, here's me thinking the route of the cause was the snow... how wrong could I be?! After two emails over the weekend and this AM.

''Hi James,

I'm sorry for the delay getting back to you. We have experienced a problem with a shipment of brown that we have received and have been unable to send out a number of orders that have been waiting for brown.

We hope to get a new shipment of brown in by the* middle of February*. As you are in desperate need of brown we can hand mix you a can (we can match it to a sample picture) and dispatch this tomorrow. However as this will be hand mixed we cannot guarantee future matches. Else we can offer you a full refund.

Please contact us to let us know how you wish to proceed.

Regards''

Anyone know of any good plasti-dip suppliers, baring in mind that the above order was placed with plasti-dip themselves grrrrr!


----------



## chrism

That's annoying. Sorry dude. 
I got my black last week 2 days after ordered. 

Did you get my xaxim email?


----------



## Wolfenrook

colinm said:


> Yep its not a fern.Bear with me O levels were a long time ago but ferns have a green sludgey stage before they reproduce into the fern or that we know.They take a long time to grow.


Aye, then they have a stage where they resemble liverworts. They look great at that point, then they turn into ferns and outgrow your viv.... :lol2: Or is that just my luck? :lol2:

I actually took a pic of moss that has sprung from soft xaxim fiber in one of my vivs. I'll get it posted in a bit. This was the fiber on gorilla glue though, rather than from soft xaxim panels. I can't show you the moss on panels as I cheated and slurried them, so it wouldn't be fair. :lol2:

Ade


----------



## Wolfenrook

Here you go, this is what I am getting on soft tree fern fiber without using slurry etc:-










You can also see quite a lot of 'baby ferns' looking like little liverworts. They look really nice during that stage, then they turn into viv busting ferns......:censor:

Ade


----------



## Ron Magpie

Wolfenrook said:


> *Aye, then they have a stage where they resemble liverworts.* They look great at that point, then they turn into ferns and outgrow your viv.... :lol2: Or is that just my luck? :lol2:
> 
> I actually took a pic of moss that has sprung from soft xaxim fiber in one of my vivs. I'll get it posted in a bit. This was the fiber on gorilla glue though, rather than from soft xaxim panels. I can't show you the moss on panels as I cheated and slurried them, so it wouldn't be fair. :lol2:
> 
> Ade


It's called a 'prothallus' - it's the fern's form of sexual reproduction. Isn't biology fun, boys and girls? :lol2:


----------



## Wolfenrook

Yes Ron, I was avoiding using scientific terminology deliberately.  A prothallus is the gametophyte of a fern. :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Did you know there's a fern that never leaves that stage? The Germans call it susswassertang, we know it as round leafed pellia, and it's often mistaken for a liverwort.


----------



## Ron Magpie

Wolfenrook said:


> Yes Ron, I was avoiding using scientific terminology deliberately.  A prothallus is the gametophyte of a fern. :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> Did you know there's a fern that never leaves that stage? The Germans call it susswassertang, we know it as round leafed pellia, and it's often mistaken for a liverwort.


I did, as it happens... :whistling2:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I will let Chris explain the following pics as these are the ones he sent me. Looks good!

pic 1










pic 2










pic 3










pic 4










pic 5


----------



## Wolfenrook

Yeah, that's black hard xaxim with the same flat moss growth I got. If you look in this pic you can see what you can get using slurry:-


----------



## chrism

Pic of the 2 tanks are using reptilica irregular panels (pic 3) and dried / rehydrated New Zealand sphagnum moss on the floor. The only plants added were broms. Loads of ferns etc. Works well in big tanks but too much in small. 
4th and 5th are the standard flat panels. I seem to get moss but not much else. Work well when want green but without losing loads of room.


----------



## Wolfenrook

Again I have to agree with you, they're good for not wasting space.

I will be quite honest, I find ferns a pain in anything smaller than a 60x60cm floor space, I end up pulling them out.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

how long would moss slurry take to cover xaxim or at least start to show so I know things have been done right?

ade, how have you built that rock effect on the side wall?


----------



## Wolfenrook

Took about 2 months for the slurry to start looking good.

The 'rocks' are Unipac Okiishi fake ones. They look brilliant with slurry applied, even if it dries out. Makes them look like dirt has gotten into the cracks. 2 of these ones siliconed onto the glass, 1 on the side one on the floor Unipac Okiishi Rock OR/3 £10.99 - Buy Aquascaping Decor Accessories.

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

Well that another £10.99 I am going to have to spend! :lol2:


----------



## Ron Magpie

fatlad69 said:


> Well that another £10.99 I am going to have to spend! :lol2:


Or just use rocks?


----------



## fatlad69

Ron Magpie said:


> Or just use rocks?


The viv weighs a ton with just the bog wood, rock would make it impossible to lift.


----------



## Ron Magpie

fatlad69 said:


> The viv weighs a ton with just the bog wood, rock would make it impossible to lift.


Wussy! :lol2:

You could always use the old gardeners standby of 'hypertufa'- a mix of cement and peat (or coco mix. Or xaxim. or etc). It's relatively light, and looks like old stone.


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Quick Q and going back to the moss slurry. Once mixed (spag, soil and water), would the mix benefit from something like this: Bonsai Tree Moss Spores / indoor - outdoor plant | eBay

...or would you get a miss-mash of mosses, with one competing against the other? Have any of your ever planted any seeds or other spores into slurry to add more variation into the mix? Do you have to keep it wet all the time or will nature just take it's course? My vivs wont be dripping wet!!!


----------



## Spikebrit

Those bonsai spores are awful, i tried for ages to grow them. The only way i could was if i placed the spores in seed trays and placed these in the greenhouse. But as soon as they went into a viv they died. Apparently even the bonsai guys struggle with these. 

Though i've no idea how they would work in the slurry mix. 

Jay


----------



## Wolfenrook

Ron Magpie said:


> Wussy! :lol2:
> 
> You could always use the old gardeners standby of 'hypertufa'- a mix of cement and peat (or coco mix. Or xaxim. or etc). It's relatively light, and looks like old stone.


Even that would be too heavy to silicone on to the side of the viv Ron.  Those 'rocks' are completely hollow and weigh next to nothing. They're also the most realistic fake rock I have ever seen. :2thumb:

As to slurry, I've added java and flame to it before now. To be honest though, using peat and sphagnum it's already full of a variety of moss and fern spores, you tend to get mosses growing to suit the position. I kinda like the surprise. :lol2: Kyoto spores, well I've never had any luck with them.


----------



## fatlad69

Wolfenrook said:


> Even that would be too heavy to silicone on to the side of the viv Ron.  Those 'rocks' are completely hollow and weigh next to nothing. They're also the most realistic fake rock I have ever seen. :2thumb:
> 
> As to slurry, I've added java and flame to it before now. To be honest though, using peat and sphagnum it's already full of a variety of moss and fern spores, you tend to get mosses growing to suit the position. I kinda like the surprise. :lol2: Kyoto spores, well I've never had any luck with them.


I never had any luck with Kyoto spore but the epi web moss mix worked very well. EpiWeb - A Better Xaxim!


----------



## Ron Magpie

fatlad69 said:


> I never had any luck with Kyoto spore *but the epi web moss mix worked very well.* EpiWeb - A Better Xaxim!


 That's interesting- a couple of years back, a few people on here said they had no luck with it. A better mix, or just better plant management?


----------



## Spikebrit

Ron Magpie said:


> That's interesting- a couple of years back, a few people on here said they had no luck with it. A better mix, or just better plant management?


i've been hit and miss with it. I've tried it twice and both times some it it grew and some of it failed. 

Jay


----------



## Wolfenrook

Spikebrit said:


> i've been hit and miss with it. I've tried it twice and both times some it it grew and some of it failed.
> 
> Jay


I've had the same happen from one batch to another. Some batches just seem to be ground up dried sphagnum and do nothing, other batches seem to have more of a mix in them and I had partial success.

To be quite honest though, rubbing live moss on wood and backgrounds is less hit and miss. :lol2: Want ferns? Shake a grown fern over your decor and you might get lucky... Had this happen with bear paw fern in my Sisa viv, I put a small piece on the background and it ended up growing from spores on the wood in the middle...

Some folks seem to get lucky and get live spores in dried moss mixes too. I'm not one of them though. I have much better success rates using live mosses, all you need is one cell to seed an entire new culture of moss, so a little goes a long way.

Ade


----------



## grizzlymonkyboy

all of this moss growing is getting me thinking i want some, can i just ask one quick question (sorry for hijacking) could i use this method using normal moss i find outside and is it safe for frogs?

sorry again and thanks in advance


----------



## Ron Magpie

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> all of this moss growing is getting me thinking i want some, can i just ask one quick question (sorry for hijacking) could i use this method using normal moss i find outside and is it safe for frogs?
> 
> sorry again and thanks in advance


 Most of us don't do well at all with native moss- it doesn't seem to thrive in indoor conditions. Richie (and I believe Stu) have had some luck with 'sheet moss' collected from branches- but mostly growing it on surfaces off of the substrate. No-one has identified the actual species, it's 'the one you find on branches and stumps' lol :lol2:


----------



## soundstounite

Ron Magpie said:


> Most of us don't do well at all with native moss- it doesn't seem to thrive in indoor conditions. Richie (and I believe Stu) have had some luck with 'sheet moss' collected from branches- but mostly growing it on surfaces off of the substrate. No-one has identified the actual species, it's 'the one you find on branches and stumps' lol :lol2:


'ere ya go Ron i think 2 yrs in viv a native. It didn't do well in the dry mystie down time but I'm spot watering this time, around. It is very slow ,but its a beaut.








As you say some natives fail,but i always hoped for some good uns.I have other types that haven't died off ,but they tend to get leggy.
ha i was just about to post some moss stuff on my thread which is why i have this pic to hand i'm messing with a few things moss wise,all will be long term,though not quick
James the black jungle sheet moss from Marc might be worth a looksee,but its more expensive pound for pound than gold:gasp: He has it in a couple of vivs looks fabulous,but i don't know how fast it is. If it grows well and its meant to it might be worth a pop,I'll report when i actually know i have some out of viv trials going,but i expect it will be months before i put anything with frogs.
We seem to do ok with the epiweb stuff,but constant moisture i think might be a problem for you.

Stu


----------



## soundstounite

grizzlymonkyboy said:


> all of this moss growing is getting me thinking i want some, can i just ask one quick question (sorry for hijacking) could i use this method using normal moss i find outside and is it safe for frogs?
> 
> sorry again and thanks in advance


Providing no chemicals/sprays and not where phibs natives can get to,should be ok,ie off the ground.But you need per mission from the landowner
Stu


----------



## grizzlymonkyboy

soundstounite said:


> Providing no chemicals/sprays and not where phibs natives can get to,should be ok,ie off the ground.But you need per mission from the landowner
> Stu


there is a nice huge log in the woods i take the dog and it looks ace full of moss and i just wana take a bit off and bring it home. 

however ifs its a hard thing to get to grow i may leave it be and just admire from a distance, may take some photos though next time i walk past


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

soundstounite said:


> James the black jungle sheet moss from Marc might be worth a looksee,but its more expensive pound for pound than gold


Funny enough, I did see this stuff but thought is could be a bit of a 'gimmick' especially for a << !! 4x4cm !! >> piece :bash: Had some bad experiences with black jungle in the past!

Think I'm going to go down the unknown with the slurry and make my own concoction, starting with the base mix then adding some bits of my own :blush: 

This nutty ferny thing has gone to me head :mf_dribble:


----------



## fatlad69

How are you getting on with the plastidip? I want to see if its any good before ordering any myself.:lol2:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> How are you getting on with the plastidip? I want to see if its any good before ordering any myself.:lol2:


Got loads of updates mate - coming online tonight with them all inc the '*Plasti-dip*' :mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


----------



## fatlad69

Looking forward to it!


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Got loads of updates mate - coming online tonight with them all inc the '*Plasti-dip*' :mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


Where this update? Slacking!:lol2:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Ubber, supremely ubber hectic / my bad!!!

brb  on there way....


----------



## fatlad69

Forgiven! I just want to know how good the plastidip is before I use it on my background.:lol2:


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

No probs mate, I have loads of pics on my other machine so I've just quickly taken these two. As you can see it holds up very well. The Xaxim I'm using is very coarse!! so had concerns before I started the painting.



















A few pros and cons:

The good!
Very easy to apply / no mixing and straight out the tin
Good application and seems to work on most materials I tested it on
Vast range of colours for blending and cuts out the need for touch-ups

The bad!!
Costly for what you get - my 750ml tin only just managed the first viv + vine work
Strong fumes.... nearly passed out after working with the stuff for 15 mins!!
Bad supply as I had to wait 2 weeks (the colour they show in-stock are wrong)

Would I use it again - SURE! but it is quite pricey. Ideal for detailing... works a treat using the 'dip' method as Chris outlined earlier. I'm getting a few tins in-stock for such purposes. Speedy and less messy than GG and silicone (cannot comment on any other method).

Dip vs GG
The dip is faster, less messy and gives a better finish. GG is cheaper and omits less fumes.

Dip vs HA Silicone
As above, Dip is faster, 'far' less messy with the same kind of finish. Silicone is cheaper but omits the same powerful fumes.

Time will tell if this stuff holds up as the Xaxim is probably not the easiest medium to work with. This would stick coco in a breeze. With that said, I wanted a nice think layer around the interior for the creepers and 'slurry'.

Where to go from here.....?


----------



## fatlad69

Well I think I will give it a try. I currently use epoxy but its not great at sticking tree fern and if you get the mix wrong it takes for ever to go off. Plus it's a pain if you get it anywhere you don't want. On the plus side it is very durable. 

What is the working time like with plastidip?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Worth a go mate - my problem is that I needed the tin to run the entire 7 Poly vivs.... how wrong could I have been doohhhh'

If your medium is bone dry then painting and covering should take you no more than 15-20 mins baring in mind you would no doubt pass out if contact was any longer!!!

Viv 1 was done on Friday - dry as a bone by that evening however the fumes are still present. The good olde' 14 day cure out is a must I rec with this stuff. Ain't tried misting on it yet but I keep checking on it. Got around a 6mm layer thickness of Xaxim which is exactly what I wanted.

Order it now mate and it may turn up by Easter!


----------



## fatlad69

How did you apply it?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> How did you apply it?


1" paint brush. That's all that is needed Adam : victory:


----------



## fatlad69

Just wandered how you got a 6mm covering, does the plastidip go on really thick?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I applied it think as per the advice I got from [email protected] Told her what I was using it for - Poly to natural fibre.

It's like a think gloss or runny 'tar'. It's used primarily for wrapping cars and wheels. Big news in the chav circus.

Paint it on think, then push the background layer firmly onto it.


----------



## fatlad69

Cheers, I will give it a go. Will 750ml be enough for back and sides of a 60x45x60 exo terra. Also what colour did you get in the end?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

I rec so matey - is it going directly onto glass or foam? I got black in 750ml. Brown is out of stock however the camo is suppose to be good and is *AVAILABLE.*


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> I rec so matey - is it going directly onto glass or foam? I got black in 750ml. Brown is out of stock however the camo is suppose to be good and is *AVAILABLE.*


It will be going over rockoflex. I looked at the camo and it looks good. Having said that when I use epoxy I always use black so not sure which one to get. I am going to make some roots/vines with air tubing with wire down the middle to hold the shape. Hopefully it will work out ok.

Adam


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> It will be going over rockoflex. I looked at the camo and it looks good. Having said that when I use epoxy I always use black so not sure which one to get. I am going to make some roots/vines with air tubing with wire down the middle to hold the shape. Hopefully it will work out ok.
> 
> Adam


I've done the same thing mate. I got a few lengths of aquarium tubing and threaded some garden wire down the middle, twisting as I went along and added some of the nylon rope for extra clarity. Dipped the tubes and nylon in the paint and then covered with the a mix of fibre, spag and peat. Vines are still in drying but will be fitted over the weekend. They do hold the shape well and have become quite hard. 

Slacking on all the pics but got loads ready. TS is killing me :lol2: Will play catch up @ the weekend tho!!


----------



## calibre

Apologies for my lack of reading back through the thread.. But i like this diy vine making.. Got loads of spare eheim tubing... What do you use to make it stick that is obviously safe for the frogs? Cheers 


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

calibre said:


> Apologies for my lack of reading back through the thread..


Now don't be lazy :whistling2:

I started the vine making using HA6 silicone, the stuff used for aquarium sealing and cabinet making. Since I got the plasti-dip (rubber paint), I found it to be a hell of a lot easier to just coat the vine material in this prior to applying the natural medium.


----------



## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Now don't be lazy :whistling2:
> 
> I started the vine making using HA6 silicone, the stuff used for aquarium sealing and cabinet making. Since I got the plasti-dip (rubber paint), I found it to be a hell of a lot easier to just coat the vine material in this prior to applying the natural medium.


Speaking of Lazy!:lol2:

Where are the updates?

Adam


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Whilst things have not moved much over the last few weeks due to bad weather and drying times, I reverted back to the lighting. I was not happy with just having single reflectors as they are quite bulky (and costly), to be honest, I'm not a fan of these and see them as a waste of money. So going back to the sticky foil, I decided to wrap the entire roof sections of each rack to give full light reflection. A bit of tracking as I had to unscrew all of the light fittings which is a bugger now due to the top sliding panels.



















Not as easy as it looks really. This stuff tears like a goody un' If you get a clean start then you simply follow the fold with a firm piece of cardboard. Reverting back for any bubbles and creases would literally rip this stuff.



















With it accurately in place you can see the reflection against my hand.










Twin tubes for both frog and plant growth reflecting quite well. Hard to see in this shot but it lights up the canopy top really well so was quite happy with the outcome. Something else I found that it retain heats better. Last quarter has been raised on average by 3c which will suit the Phyllos to a 'T'!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Speaking of Lazy!:lol2:
> 
> Where are the updates?
> 
> Adam


haha Adam, pot calling kettle :mf_dribble: that's telling me eh :lol2:


----------



## fatlad69

Very true, I am no better:lol2:. I ran out of rockoflex but some arrived this morning so most of the background is covered. A couple of air bubbles from the foam need another coat then I will order the plastidip. I must admit I am a little nervous never having used it before but I suppose it can't be any worse than epoxy resin. I just hope it turns out half as good as yours.

Loving the mirror film. Let us know how it fairs with the heat from the lights.

Adam


----------



## soundstounite

mantella said:


> I read that article. Where does 250 species of dart frogs come from? ' 'Dendroking' lol.


James sorry for the off topic intrusion,I was meandering through your great thread and came across this, above post.

I thought a link might help Mantella,
Dendrobates.org - Dendrobatoidea oh and I'm sure the 250 is not an exact figure just a ballpark that will change as more amazing discoveries are made.
Again apologies for answering so late, i'm more than abit bit busy of late 

Stu


----------



## Wolfenrook

Sorry bud, but if you think putting foil on the lids will work as well as a decent reflector you haven't looked into how they work. 

It really is worth paying for the best reflector you can get. For T5HOs (sorry John) this is the D-D Razer reflector with it's gull wing design. They truly are fantastic.

I am sure that John can explain far better than I however how it's the arced shape of reflectors that ensures that the maximum amount of light get's reflected down into the viv, rather than back into the tubes or all over the place.

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Nay probs (great pics in PRK) - did they ask you for a profile shot Stu before or after your article/s?



Wolfenrook said:


> Sorry bud, but if you think putting foil on the lids will work as well as a decent reflector you haven't looked into how they work.


Now that's telling me eh?! :whip:


----------



## Wolfenrook

That was me been gentle, hence the wink. lol

In all seriousness though, it'll be better than nothing at all but not as effective as decent reflectors. I am sure John will be along to explain things more scientifically, but basically it's down to the angles of reflection. 90 degree surfaces give more restrike and more light been bounced out of the viv rather than down into it. Where T5s with a good reflector the angles of reflection bounce more light around the tube and down into the viv, especially with the gull wing designed D-D ones which don't even cause as much restrike into the tube at the very top.

This explains things better http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/files/Razor Reflector.pdf

There's actually a lot of evidence that the narrower tube combined with improved designed reflectors that are why T5s do so much a better job of lighting things, not just the increased light output from the tube itself. 

You know me bud, I love lighting. 

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Was a joke Ade and like always mate, I appreciate any input and advice. I'm not one of those peeps who take hum bridge... I value everyone's expertise. One of the reasons I removed the reflectors was down to the space. I've made a few errors here and there as realised that with reflectors in place, they would almost cut into the top screen mesh. 

Cheers Ade'


----------



## Wolfenrook

That's fair enough bud, after all it's still better than bare wood.

Have you considered using LEDs for your non-UV lighting though? This would give you serious punch down into the depths far superior to flourescents using the right LEDs, and use a LOT less space than your flourescents. That said, you would lose one source of heat generation. This is a plus for us dart keepers, not so good I should think for waxy monkies. lol

To be honest, I wasn't so much worried that I had upset you as I know you don't take anything I say that way. More worried that others might think I was upsetting you, it's funny how some people can get on behalf of others sometimes. 

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Yeh I went for the best foil I could get. I spoke to Jon about this before xmas. I tried cutting the reflectors and made a right hash of it. I simply do not like them in terms of what they are. The more you screw them in... the tighter they get and become somewhat out of shape. I would prefer or would of like to have gone done the luminar route or a mass of d3 floods however I simply miss-judged the height of each enclosure.... why?! because I did not take into account the profiling dohh'' each over-lapped corner has pushed up the height by 8mm. OK 8mm is nothing but seen as though I built the whole racking unit to the nearest mm - big big problems that I did not foresee.

lol, thick skinned me mate and honesty is the best policy. It's best to openly discuss these matters so other can read and LEARN. Wish the internet was around when I started. All we had for reference was 'Reptilian' and the odd TFH book lol!


----------



## Wolfenrook

Yeah, I don't use Arcadia reflectors to be honest, they're a bit flimsy.

This is one of the ones I use:-










They're completely rigid, made out of solid polished aluminium rather than the usual floppy stuff. They're not that slim though.

If you ever need a really slim reflector again, have a look at the iquatics ones. They're a bit too slim for my tastes, but they certainly will fit into a narrower space:-



















Yeah, kind of used a lot of different tubes, reflectors etc... :lol2:

Ade


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Cheers pal, how much do the iaquatic retail at as they look quite pricey? I take it they come in all (popular) sizes?

** I keep bringing this up in different threads but I can honestly say that a lot of the peripherals needs looking at. I love Arcadia since I made the switch. Their lighting is the best I have ever seen/used. However some emphasis now needs to be placed on putting together more ways of utilising it all. We need choice and variety to really drill down this technology.

For the others and likes of Hagen and other commercial manufacturers... stop building and creating pointless s##t (praying on the young and vulnerable with elaborate marketing). Start focussing your efforts and research into proper animal welfare and husbandry. Gezzz rant over.... (for now!)


----------



## Arcadiajohn

Ade is right,

a solid block of reflection gives no control over the reflection. It just allows reflected lighted light to bounce about at will.

We are very happy with the asymetric design of our reflectors as they not only double the available light into the enclosure but also allow you to direct the light onto the space that is required. This is real useful with the light and shade method.

There are other brands of course as Ade points out.

For you the UVFlood would be a great way of getting light into the enclosure if you cna make them fit.

we even make a plant gro lamp to fit in the fitting I understand.

john


----------



## Wolfenrook

The 39watt iquatics ones are about £8.50, so similarly prices to Arcadia ones.

As to Hagen, one of the really good bits of kit they made they stopped making, the Hagen Glo Duo T5HO controller. They were really solid bits of kit. It's not that other manufacturers are bad, it's more that they just don't listen enough to hobbyists. Arcadia have more in common with Repashy, both listen to hobbyists and try to come up with innovations to meet the demands of hobbyists better.

Oh and John, the Arcadia reflector isn't bad by any means, in fact it's one of the better ones on the market. I just prefer the D-D ones. : victory: They're more expensive though, and not as widely available.

I think what a lot of us are asking for now James is better control of banks of lighting. We're fed up of cables everywhere with multiple plugs and socket strips and timers all over the place. :2thumb: Seems to me that a LOT of exotics keeper don't just have 1 or 2 vivs, they have multiple ones, where cable management etc gets fiddly.

Ade



Terrarium Supplies said:


> Cheers pal, how much do the iaquatic retail at as they look quite pricey? I take it they come in all (popular) sizes?
> 
> ** I keep bringing this up in different threads but I can honestly say that a lot of the peripherals needs looking at. I love Arcadia since I made the switch. Their lighting is the best I have ever seen/used. However some emphasis now needs to be placed on putting together more ways of utilising it all. We need choice and variety to really drill down this technology.
> 
> For the others and likes of Hagen and other commercial manufacturers... stop building and creating pointless s##t (praying on the young and vulnerable with elaborate marketing). Start focussing your efforts and research into proper animal welfare and husbandry. Gezzz rant over.... (for now!)


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> I think what a lot of us are asking for now James is better control of banks of lighting. We're fed up of cables everywhere with multiple plugs and socket strips and timers all over the place.


haha' your not kidding!! downstairs we have vertical racks that our adults are in. Rows of tier 2 AB vivs, lighting, heating, thermos and misters. Upstairs with have horizontal racks, daisy chained with more lighting, heating, and thermos. These banks all divert into double sockets with breakers. I can't see this happening can you? Why would... or how could a manufacturer produce such a product? I'm guessing you would have to retain brand loyalty for 'extensions' to work. I can't see a cookie cut answer here.


----------



## Wolfenrook

I have some ideas yeah, but then my other hobby is building PCs. lol Guess we'll just have to see what happens though. I am sure that somebody even techier than me could construct a fully computer controled system etc, I can't even use soldering irons though. lol

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

This system seems quite good apart from the blue light. Could work well for creating a sunrise sunset effect in combination with the T5's.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/equipment-supplies/933501-led-light-controller.html


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Yeah I seen that from Ink. Would be quite cool if there was generic box that we could plug in lighting (and heating) that does this kind of thing. Like that video on Tube, simulates a rain storm, lighting and times the misters on/off (even with mp3 facility)... thunder... lighting... howler monkeys hell even a call to get the frogs pumping!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Back on with the build this weekend as I need to make some good progress before we get another bashing of snow up here!! Now the Plasti-Dip has fully dried out and odour free (2 weeks later!!) I got to see for the first time how the top vivs look in-situ. You can see how these fit very snug... also pleased with how the lights reflecting down hit the back wall pods, creating some nice shaded areas. 










You can see the size of these things against a standard exo 30x30x45 - Taller, wider and a hell of a lot deeper.










Also started to bond the runners in place to give a crisp, smooth finish.


----------



## fatlad69

Looking great. I got my plastidip and started my background this weekend and I have to say I am impressed good adhesion and a hell of a lot easier than epoxy resin. I used a tree fern Ecco earth mix and the expo earth sticks to it like s:censor:t to a blanket. The fumes are quite strong but not as bad as expected. No to make some vines.

James you are right by the way, a tin doesn't go that far.

Adam


----------



## fatlad69

I did wonder on your vivs where you have duck tap to black it out whether plastidip would work finished with the gloss coat?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Jesus... you got your tin quick mate lol!!! what size/colour did you opt for Adam? Your mix sounds sweet.

Yea it's pretty solid stuff aint it. I'm going onto the next tin in a short while. Just had to pop out for some more brushes.

Also had the first delivery of Liana, bog and raw wood ready for the grand opening lol!! I'm all wooded up now. Will have to get some more pics on later.

Yeah a coat of plasti would work however I rec this would have to be applied via spray to get a better/cleaner finish. It's a great product but costly...


----------



## fatlad69

I went for a 750ml tin of black and it came within a week. Mine is not as thick a finish as yours because of the Ecco earth but I didn't have enough tree fern to do the lot. As a result it is quite a soft finish as opposed to the rough finish you get with epoxy. I have to say I am converted. I cleaned my brushes with white spirit and it seemed to do the trick. 

I agree about the spray finish for the poly and I think it would look great even left as Matt. 

Will you be bringing the liana and wood to BAKS?


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

Same as me then, black 750ml. Reason mine took ages to come was due to the cock up of brown. May have a dabble with the camo next order. Brown aint in till end of this month sigh'

Me and white spirit don't get on 

Yeah bringing a vast array of decor on the day mate. I've got some right bespoke pieces too - these come up to my waste. More suited for Pythons, Monitors and Iguanas though. That's unless someone decides to build a MASSIVE viv. Would look great in an arboreal viv with broms and creepers. I just havnt got the room anymore. I'm maxed out with even more taddies on the way arggghhhhhh?!?!?!


----------



## fatlad69

I don't understand what the difference between brown and the camo brown is?


----------



## Wolfenrook

Just a suggestion.

Anywhere where you are using the tape purely to hide plastidip etc, consider using some black Fablon type stuff instead. It looks much smarter. 

Liking the look of your background, but no way will anybody persuade me to move away from my adopted methods now. lol Smart though.

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

Wolfenrook said:


> Just a suggestion.
> 
> Anywhere where you are using the tape purely to hide plastidip etc, consider using some black Fablon type stuff instead. It looks much smarter.
> 
> Liking the look of your background, but no way will anybody persuade me to move away from my adopted methods now. lol Smart though.
> 
> Ade


ADe I think it's all about what works best for each individual. I hated using silicone hence I started with the epoxy but that can be so hit and miss. This seems to be a good middle Ground but only time will tell how it stands up to misting. I have never tried GG but maybe I will give it a try next time. 

Adam


----------



## my_shed

fatlad69 said:


> ADe I think it's all about what works best for each individual. I hated using silicone hence I started with the epoxy but that can be so hit and miss. This seems to be a good middle Ground but only time will tell how it stands up to misting. I have never tried GG but maybe I will give it a try next time.
> 
> Adam


 If you try GG i'll be curious to see your comparisons, I use GG for a lot of my backgrounds, and find it a lot better than silicon or epoxy, but some struggle. I've been considering plasti-dip for a while but am slightly put off by the price, however will be getting some to use to make vines and roots. If you try GG please post your conclusions. Dave


----------



## Wolfenrook

GG isn't that great, especially if you use eco earth as it just flakes off over time. It works a bit better with tree fern fiber as you can push the fibers into the glue to bond, but it's still far from perfect, I regularly had to use some brown silicone to patch up bare spots.

The very reason I switched to my bare glass with fablon on the outside technique is because I grew tired of using noxious chemicals like silicone etc. They look great, but such a mess and so much to go wrong. Done right with a bare glass method your plants soon fill in to cover the back completely, with decor and plants providing plenty to climb on.

Anyway, I should be demonstrating the method at BAKS, so some of you will be able to see it yourself then, and I believe that James is going to provide one of his polycarb vivs with his background methods for me to demo how to decorate these also. 

Anyway, looking good James. 

Ade


----------



## fatlad69

my_shed said:


> If you try GG i'll be curious to see your comparisons, I use GG for a lot of my backgrounds, and find it a lot better than silicon or epoxy, but some struggle. I've been considering plasti-dip for a while but am slightly put off by the price, however will be getting some to use to make vines and roots. If you try GG please post your conclusions. Dave


Hi Dave, I will if I get round to using it. The plastidip although expensive is the best stuff I have used to date. I have always used Epoxy to date with some great results but this stuff seems to give just as good a finish with a lot less trouble. I also think it would be excellent for water features!


----------



## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> I don't understand what the difference between brown and the camo brown is?


I'm not sure either mate tbh?! Maybe a random mix of black, brown and green... :whistling2:


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## Terrarium Supplies

Wolfenrook said:


> GG isn't that great, especially if you use eco earth as it just flakes off over time. It works a bit better with tree fern fiber as you can push the fibers into the glue to bond, but it's still far from perfect, I regularly had to use some brown silicone to patch up bare spots.


Eco that! GG can be so hit and miss. The only benefit really is the drying time. Compared the plasti and silicone, you can have a fully lined viv done in a few days.



Wolfenrook said:


> Anyway, I should be demonstrating the method at BAKS, so some of you will be able to see it yourself then, and I believe that James is going to provide one of his polycarb vivs with his background methods for me to demo how to decorate these also.


(only because he wants some free plants :mf_dribble


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## my_shed

Hmm, I guess. I've heard people have problems with gorilla glue, personally I seldom use eco earth, I tend to use organic compost as the plants seem to prefer it, and it seems to adhere better Here's my latest one, as terrarium supplies said the time-scale is much better....only started this in the middle of last week.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/936069-here-we-go-again.html

I've used it with all sorts of substrates though, desert bedding, sand, gravel, compost and soil etc, I think it's just about getting the water content right.

As I say though, I'm always keen to hear others opinions and comparisons, and will be definitely trying the plasti-dip for myself too.

Dave


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## Spikebrit

my_shed said:


> Hmm, I guess. I've heard people have problems with gorilla glue, personally I seldom use eco earth, I tend to use organic compost as the plants seem to prefer it, and it seems to adhere better Here's my latest one, as terrarium supplies said the time-scale is much better....only started this in the middle of last week.
> 
> I've used it with all sorts of substrates though, desert bedding, sand, gravel, compost and soil etc, I think it's just about getting the water content right.
> 
> As I say though, I'm always keen to hear others opinions and comparisons, and will be definitely trying the plasti-dip for myself too.
> 
> Dave


GG works well with a compost I've found i've got a viv i did 2.5 years ago now still going strong, flacked off a small amount near the door where i pulled some ficus off but thats it. I found the key is loads of pressure during drying (bricks) and loads of water.

The first vivs i used it for with no less pressure it just flacked off. 

Jay


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## Wolfenrook

Yeah, I found that mixing peat into the eco earth helped quite a bit.

It's all just too much mess and messing though whatever method you use. lol

Ade


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## fatlad69

Dave, definitely give the plastidip ago. I have almost finished my background and I am really pleased with the results. I have started to make some vines out of airline tubing and the plastidip with tree fern is giving them a natural look. I will try GG one of these days but I think the plastidip will be hard to beat. The only down side is the cost and a 750m tin doesn't seem to go too far. It will be interesting how well it stands up to the test of time.

Adam

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> The only down side is the cost and a 750m tin doesn't seem to go too far.


I tried to get this in stock but the price seen on eBay and their website is the final flat price. They offer no further discounting which is real shame. £22.00 to fully line a medium viv is quite costly and would put a lot of potential new keepers off. I would of liked to have stocked this for under the £12.00 mark. There is no other product on the market really that offers this kind of flexibility.... 'sigh'


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## chrism

Terrarium Supplies said:


> I tried to get this in stock but the price seen on eBay and their website is the final flat price. They offer no further discounting which is real shame. £22.00 to fully line a medium viv is quite costly and would put a lot of potential new keepers off. I would of liked to have stocked this for under the £12.00 mark. There is no other product on the market really that offers this kind of flexibility.... 'sigh'


Is cheap compared to xaxim panel though- and several tubes of silicone needed if go that route to stick coc fibre etc.


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## fatlad69

Very true. If you buy it from their website the do offer a discount on multiple tins. 5 x 750ml tins comes out as £17.40 a tin including delivery.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Just been doing some more research and found this great little product... the possibilities again are endless. Thinking of making some water features, bowls and vines with this stuff.... looks promising. I get fed up of the same old stuff and like to do things bespoke.

Amazing Polymorph Plastic Easy to Mould Thermoplastic Endless Uses - YouTube

500g (17.6oz) Friendly Plastic Polymorph Pellets. Mould Craft Shape By Hand | eBay

Anyone tried this before? create a cast then give it a Plasti-dip coating, finish with some high-end tree fern or other mix. I recon you could make some great custom features with this stuff.


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## zekee

Is this plasti dip the same as liquid rubber? If so then that would work out cheaper...


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## Terrarium Supplies

zekee said:


> Is this plasti dip the same as liquid rubber? If so then that would work out cheaper...


I did see this mate but don't really know that much about it. I guess it is a long the same lines but I think it needs mixing which did put me off... unless I'm wrong of course??


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## fatlad69

This stuff looks great and not that expensive. I wonder how far a 500g bag goes? Vines or even tree stumps could look amazing with a little imagination. I agree a water feature with this stuff could work well.

Adam


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## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> This stuff looks great and not that expensive. I wonder how far a 500g bag goes? Vines or even tree stumps could look amazing with a little imagination. I agree a water feature with this stuff could work well.
> 
> Adam


Not too sure so I made a quick sample purchase earlier for 100g (only £1.65): 100g Hot Melt Plastic Pellets Make Components Repairs Tools Moulds Prototyping | eBay

I've got an idea I want to try out in one of the larger poly vivs. Basically working from a similar background as the small ones. I first create the background using the same old polyfoam and plant pot method. However this time and before I apply any background medium, I start to sculpt this hot plastic material into a running stream than contours in and around the background grooves and gaps. I then dip this creation into a coating of plasti and let it cure. Once ready I attached everything together (maybe with HA6) and then coat all areas (minus the water well and stream) with tree fern etc... End result could be a great little stream running in and around the background and side walls?? Weaving in, out and under jungle twisted vines... Worth a punt me thinks!! If I get the cast wrong then I think you can just keep re-heating it.


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## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Not too sure so I made a quick sample purchase earlier for 100g (only £1.65): 100g Hot Melt Plastic Pellets Make Components Repairs Tools Moulds Prototyping | eBay
> 
> I've got an idea I want to try out in one of the larger poly vivs. Basically working from a similar background as the small ones. I first create the background using the same old polyfoam and plant pot method. However this time and before I apply any background medium, I start to sculpt this hot plastic material into a running stream than contours in and around the background grooves and gaps. I then dip this creation into a coating of plasti and let it cure. Once ready I attached everything together (maybe with HA6) and then coat all areas (minus the water well and stream) with tree fern etc... End result could be a great little stream running in and around the background and side walls?? Weaving in, out and under jungle twisted vines... Worth a punt me thinks!! If I get the cast wrong then I think you can just keep re-heating it.


If you use the brown plasti dip it should blend in well. You could also add some gravel onto the plastidip to make it seam more natural. I think it will be a lot easier to make than other methods and as you say if you don't get it right first time just heat it and do it again.

I have made a few vines/roots using air tubing and plastidip and they have turned out pretty well. I think if I get brown camo next time they will look even better. Excuse the iPhone picture quality


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## Terrarium Supplies

Looking good Adam! Did you put the wire through the air line tubing prior to dipping?


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## zekee

I've seen people in the USA use this stuff to waterproof ply wood aquariums...

Rubber Roofing - Roof Coatings | Liquid Rubber Solutions

Not sure if you could use it for your needs though.


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## Terrarium Supplies

Maybe worth a punt Tom. If I could find a product that offers the same kind of bond as a fraction of the price then I'm in!! I'll give them a call to see what they have to say. Cheers buddy.


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## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Looking good Adam! Did you put the wire through the air line tubing prior to dipping?


Yes, so I can plastidip the ends to stop rust. I used coat hangers for the wire and also put a plug of silicone in the ends. I then just pushed the wire into the foam with a bit more silicone to hold it and touched up with a bit of plastidip. Works a treat and makes them quite durable. 

Adam


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## Terrarium Supplies

Niceone mate. I need to silicone the ends of mine to stop the feeders crawling in lol!!! I've not attached mine yet - did you poke them into the background or bond them?


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## fatlad69

Just need to get some more thinner tubing for contrast. I have made a couple of roots using 16mm tubing I think using the same method for low down in the viv that will disappear into the substrate.

Adam


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## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Just need to get some more thinner tubing for contrast. I have made a couple of roots using 16mm tubing I think using the same method for low down in the viv that will disappear into the substrate.
> 
> Adam


Kwel, Adam post your pics up mate when you can. I'm well behind here.... just cant seem to get rid of the snow atm!!! 4 months behind schedule.... :bash:


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## fatlad69

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Kwel, Adam post your pics up mate when you can. I'm well behind here.... just cant seem to get rid of the snow atm!!! 4 months behind schedule.... :bash:


I know what you mean, we have 6 inches of snow hear and more on the way.

I just poke the wire in and then add a bit of silicone to secure them. I finish the edges with plastidip so they look like they are growing out of the background. Any that have an exposed end I just silicone the end and drag the silicone away with a matchstick to give a point at the end.


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## Spikebrit

urghhh stop giving me new ideas lol. I was all set on how my next two tanks were going to look and now you've given me new thigns to think about. 

I love the mouldable plastic though. 

Jay


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## Terrarium Supplies

Bringing this thread back from the dead! Got loads of updates and some great shots of it all in action. Now I'm back to base, I'll start updating you all on the final piece!


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## Ron Magpie

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Bringing this thread back from the dead! Got loads of updates and some great shots of it all in action. Now I'm back to base, I'll start updating you all on the final piece!


'Bout time... :whistling2:


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## Terrarium Supplies

Been busy making my *cough Millions


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## terryTHEfrog

Oh all the pics are gone ??


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## Terrarium Supplies

terryTHEfrog said:


> Oh all the pics are gone ??


Yah, sorry I have a very firm firewall in place on our servers for work. I should be able to get these back from the cloud.


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## terryTHEfrog

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Yah, sorry I have a very firm firewall in place on our servers for work. I should be able to get these back from the cloud.


Fingers crossed !


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## Terrarium Supplies

Pictures backup and online


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## Meefloaf

so, i've had a little read, skimmed best way to put it. have a question, Tree Fern Panels, has anyone bought the one's dartfrog sells ? the ones for backgrounds ? hell alot cheaper than exo ones


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## fatlad69

Yes they work great! I am making my own at the moment using tree fern fibre onto styrofoam. This way will be cheaper and will be an exact fit.

Adam


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## Meefloaf

*gets card ready*


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## Terrarium Supplies

fatlad69 said:


> Yes they work great! I am making my own at the moment using tree fern fibre onto styrofoam. This way will be cheaper and will be an exact fit.
> 
> Adam


Adam, how are you bonding the fern to the panels?


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## zekee

James, did you ever finish these?


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## swede

Terrarium Supplies said:


> Pictures backup and online


And now gone again ***128553;

I know it is a very old thread but so good and helpful... Any chance they can be uploaded again ? Plzzzz ***128512;


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## Big McCann

Old thread resurrection but is the pictures of this whole process still availble at all folks?

Sounds like a really cool project


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