# Views on keeping Whales in Captivity



## Natonstan (Aug 9, 2008)

Just wondered what people thought about keeping these large mammals in captivity, in places like Sea World and other Zoos, I found a video on youtube of the largest whale in captivity and it got me thinking, these guys are really living in cramped conditions!
YouTube - Sea World - Largest Killer Whale In Captivity (Tilikum) (2008)


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## slugsiss32 (Nov 14, 2010)

Seaworld take great care of their whales, I've seen the shows they do and they never force the animals to do anything they don't want to, the whales are respected and are highly trained, but in the end, they are wild animals and Seaworld does the best it possibly can in keeping the animals in captivity. In my opinion they shouldn't be kept in captivity, but its not as if they can just release all these whales into the wild, they would just die. They gave Tilikum a home after he killed the first person. I'm so glad he wasn't put down as it wasn't his fault, after all they are killer whales and they naturally shake their prey to kill them! 

To be honest, animals like this should never be messed with! The trainers never swam with Tilikum, the reason the lady was killed was because the whale was stressed by her hair being in a pony tail, in my opinion it was her own fault, they should be made to wear swim caps when messing with such powerful animals. And the other man who Tilikum killed went into his pen at night and tried to climb on his back, what was he expecting, a friendly chat?! 

Seaworld does do a good job, the best it can, but unless an animal is truely needed to be in captivity, they shouldn't be kept for people to look at really i don't think.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

hmm, I too have been to sea world, and enjoyed the show... but you can't really escape the fact that they are kept in tanks only their length deep, not even twice their length long, and with nothing to see but concrete walls. It's not even the equivilent of keeping a goldfish in a bowl, it's like keeping it in a cup!
The training method used on Tilikum prior to his present home was with-holding food. They are not happy in their little pens. They are taken away from their family group, and forced to live in solitary, wth ajoining pens to strangers. The only social interaction they recieve is when the shows are on, and they can not comunicate with each other in the same way as they do in the wild. There are dominance issuse between whales, that are said to be caused by stress and one whale died after bleeding out from the blow hole for 45mins in full view of tourists, (artery burst in dominance 'incident') another is said to have 'commited suicide' bashing his head against the side of the tank until dead. 
In captivity they only live on average into the 20s, and in the wild the life expectancy is akin to a human, their dorsal fins collapse (because of poor diet, swimming in circles, over-exposure to sun and laying at the surface of the water bored) they also get sunburnt (over exposure to UV and no shade provided) they have broken and missing teeth (chewing on and bashing into the metal gates which seperate pens) and many die of pneumonia. 

Finally, Tilikum has bad a reputation now as the true 'kliller whale' because he 'killed' 3 people. Really ths poor whale was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The first time, the person fell into the pool, and she was not frst attacked by Tilikum but was thrown from one female orca to another in the same tank as Tilikum, he joined in, but it was just a killer whale style game. 
The second was some tramp who evaded security in order to swim in the orca tank with Tilikum and he wasn't even attacked! he died of hypothermia cause it's bloody old in those tanks.
The third one he really did drag her under though, but she shouldn't have been in a situation where that could happen, and she probably shouldn't have worn her hair in pony tail.

Anyway I conclude, that it is a sad existance for such a powerful, magnificent animal. I would much rather see them in the sea.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

I will keep this short or I will go into rant mode! I think it is cruel the poor whales have a hellish life all for the amusement of humans.


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## Longdogshortcat (May 2, 2011)

If there is one mammal that should not be ept in captivity,it is whales.The previous posters eloquently expressed many of the reasons.There are people who keep "exotics" who may well be better off in the wild.However,size of enclosure,enrichment and ability to behave as they would in their natural environment is paramount.
A whale,kept in a swimming pool,made to perform,with little,if any enrichment is beyond cruel.This is my personal view.
I did visit Seaworld (against all my instincts) just so I could have an informed opinion rather than just jump on the bandwagon.
I maintain my view-they should NOT be kept in captivity based on current facilities.
If pools could be increased in size tenfold,the odd shoal of live fish introduced,no performing etc etc then it may be better.
This is just my personal view and not necessarily "right".


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

i agree they should be free i have visited see world they are looked after but its still so sad

i know this is probably a stupid question but why would her hair being in a pony tail stress him out


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

I have been to both the Sea world in California and the one in Florida and also seen Orca in the Stanley park aquarium in Vancouver some 15yrs agoand I feel that if they are to be kept in captivity they should indeed have larger 'tanks'. 

I think it is good though that they train them as Orca are intelligent creatures and it will mentally stimulate them to an extent. I train my foxes and they enjoy learning and as they are not domesticated they do not do it to make me happy, they do it because they like it. I think, maybe the Orca at Seaworld and other places do it because they like it to an extent. 
-
Elina


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

The reason people say about her hair being in a pony tail, is because they train with sticks and rope toys and bois with ropes attached etc. it's not so much that it stresses them out, but confuses them. Basically their head looks like a toy. They are taught to come up out of the water and recieve things, which it seems is what the whale was doing. Some make out it was murder, with planning behind it to kill his trainer, others it was just an accident.

Alo I agree Elina they probably do enjoy the training to extent, but only with positive training methods, I find it hard to believe they would use starvation (in some places, perhaps only in the past) to get them to do what they want though. Aswell as it being cruel, it sounds like an accident waiting to happen, having a hungry whale around people. It is best that they are given some mental stimulation given that they have such little visual and social stimulation. However it would be even better if they were in much much larger tanks, in family groups in a more natural habitat. 

We've largely moved past lions being kept alone in a cage just big enough to turn around in. Most of our zoos now have very large enclosures and people understand the importance of interaction with thier own species.

I don't doubt that the trainers at sea world etc. love the animals they work with, but they need to get up to date and enlarge the tanks massively. They won't though because the owners, the people making massve profits, they only have money on their mind. It must be really expensive to keep a whale, and expensive to build a tank of that size, but in my eyes if you can't afford to keep it properly then you houldn't keep it at all. However I'm glad I got to see a 'killer whale' I just wish I had seen it at sea or in atleast a (much) larger tank.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I've been to Sea world too as a very young child, and as an animal _obsessed_ kid, I remember being really impressed and it was kind of magical. Only since then have I realised it's cruelty of the worst kind.

My 4 year old niece (equally obsessed with animals) recently went to Sea World, and came back buzzing with stories of Shamu and all that, and it was really weird trying to stay enthused about it all for her so as not to upset her. I'm guessing she'll learn soon enough as I did....but so long as the kids want to go there, unfortunately the orca will stay.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

I read a very interesting book called "Listening to Whales" by a woman called Alexandra Morton- in it she describes the depression, mental and emotion problems caused by keeping whales (namely orcas) in captivity. The cramped conditions, poor health and misunderstanding is pretty bad. Its very difficult to read. The author also details how the life of an orca is hugely reduced by being kept in captivity- they just sort of fade away after a while.

I do believe the book also states that it is currently still legal to capture wild orcas to replace existing ones in American sealife parks, even though this causes severe emotional distress to both the captive whale and the family left behind.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

Call me dumb but apart from sea world and a another few places in america are killer whales kept in other countrys?

Me i'm open minded when it comes to keeping animals people can keep elephants if they have space, know how and money. But then again some animals i belive shouldnt be kept in captivity and killer whales or any whale for that matter shouldnt be kept in captivity. I cant help thinking though that these killer whales are exploited to an extent of a commoidty and not a privalage.


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## Supern3 (Oct 26, 2010)

they are in loro parque, tenerife.

absolutely incredible animals.

fully trained. 

clik on link, and click on video.

http://www.loroparque.com/en/orcas.asp


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## Stacey010884 (Mar 7, 2009)

Though shocking, appalling and upsetting did anyone else watch the documentary on dolphins culled and captured for captivity in Japan. The Cove, True Stories, documentary on More 4 a fair while back. Extremely interesting despite the distressing footage.

While it gives us the opportunity to see these incredible creature I don't agree that whale and porpoises should be kept in captivity. These highly developed animals are equal to us in intelligence and behaviours and captivity, though safer than oceans, are not suitable for these animals.

I think the ocean should be one enormous protected habitat. Overfishing has depleted fish stocks globally, there's not one place that is safe for a fish because while one country may not be permitted to fish those waters others are, so there's no safe haven. It's wrong. The way things are going the whole eco system is going to collapse. We're responsible for it. (We may not actively participate but the fact that we do nothing about it makes us just as guilty.)

Earth Island Institute


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Longdogshortcat said:


> If pools could be increased in size tenfold,the odd shoal of live fish introduced,no performing etc etc then it may be better.


I agree with everything BUT the "no performing".

They are VERY intelligent animals. Without something to occupy their minds, intelligent animals get bored. Doesn't matter how big the tank is, or whether there's a bit of food roaming around in there ... without something to "do" they would be less happy. Dolphins - and orcas are just the largest of the dolphin family - very definitely seem to enjoy interacting with trainers (and other humans) if the opportunity presents itself. Certainly when I had the opportunity to spend some time with a dolphin that wasn't actively being offered food rewards for his behaviours, he actively engaged me in what I can only call "games" (on the basis that they had rules - although I was not in charge of what those rules were!) for as long as I was willing to play them, and it was not for lack of company of his own kind.

Although we might think of it as "demeaning" to request that the animal perform a behaviour in order to get a reward, it's only as demeaning as you make it. Humans perform a wide range of "trained" behaviours in exchange for various rewards - it's part of modern life. And without the opportunity to perform behaviours and earn rewards, we'd get bored too. 



ferretman said:


> Call me dumb but apart from sea world and a another few places in america are killer whales kept in other countrys?


Yes. Marineland Antibes, a park in Japan, a park in the Netherlands, and a park in Argentina, as well as Loro Parque and the American/Canadian parks.

Yorkshire used to have an orca as well - Flamingoland used to have "Cuddles" in the pools that now house their sea lions.


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## ferretman (May 11, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> I agree with everything BUT the "no performing".
> 
> They are VERY intelligent animals. Without something to occupy their minds, intelligent animals get bored. Doesn't matter how big the tank is, or whether there's a bit of food roaming around in there ... without something to "do" they would be less happy. Dolphins - and orcas are just the largest of the dolphin family - very definitely seem to enjoy interacting with trainers (and other humans) if the opportunity presents itself. Certainly when I had the opportunity to spend some time with a dolphin that wasn't actively being offered food rewards for his behaviours, he actively engaged me in what I can only call "games" (on the basis that they had rules - although I was not in charge of what those rules were!) for as long as I was willing to play them, and it was not for lack of company of his own kind.
> 
> ...


 
I never knew that looking at the set up loro park has it looks fantastic compared to some of the others i have seen.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

I have spoken to an ex dolphin trainer on another forum who has also worked with whales and he had a lot of good info. 
Basically it seems the thought is that dolphins (of which orcas are a species) are the same as elephants, chimps, etc in captivity. Fine in a smaller space (though not as small as some tanks that have been used), so long as they are heavily occupied, toys, training, and most definitely companionship where appropriate, some males of some species are loners and should be kept separated.
Very few, if any, cetaceans have been taken from the wild in the last 20 or so years for import to the west, some eastern parks, I remember Japan and Saudi being mentioned, do however remove them from food culls, which since they're being killed anyway hardly seems like a massive hardship.
Breeding programs are very successful and that is where most animals come from.
Personally I think we need a decent whale and dolphin centre in the UK rather desperately. Most animals beached on our shores are killed or pushed back into the sea. Refloating has proven a bad solution as they usually beach because of illness and will die without medical care. A centre in this country would save so many lives, but due to a lot of poorly educated people who believe that any dolphin in captivity may as well be dead, we can't have one. It's frustrating.


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## londonjoe (Apr 11, 2011)

ive been to loro parque its fantasic and the set up brillant the encloser is about 55ft deep aswell:no1:


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

slugsiss32 said:


> Unless an animal is truely needed to be in captivity, they shouldn't be kept for people to look at really i don't think.


this is what pets are :whistling2:


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