# New online livestock auction



## broomy

Hi all,

I am in the process of starting my own online web based auction site purely for livestock.
I have my domain name, server and 60% of the actual website complete.

it follows the same lines as ebay but will be an auction site purely for livestock and equipment.
there will be no final value fee for listing just a small charge for the listing and pictures etc.
The common listing types will also apply-auction, fixed, best offer etc.
The catergories to begin with will be as follows-

Farm animals
Dogs
Cats
Reptiles

each catergory will be also broken down into sub catergories.
I am hoping that paypal will be intergrated into the auction site.

Your feedback is important and would welcome any comments and if this community would use something like this.

This will be a unique and the only online livestock auction website.u


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## StaneyWid

No offence bud but sounds dodgy!

Fair enuff equipment

But auctionin off Pets just doesnt sound right at all :whistling2:


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## broomy

difference between selling for a fixed price and auction is???????
also have you heard of livestock markets and auctions???


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## StaneyWid

Aye obv ive heard of them

Massive diff from in the flesh buying markets and over the net tho ?

Not saying its a bad idea ? Just sounds strange to me to do things like that with "PETS" 

Understand auctionin cows n livestock slightly diff becos its either gettin eaten or bought by a farmer in wellys! If it was done over the net,say i was drunk,n ordered a couple of cows for a laugh....I stay in a flat.....How u gonna know that ? How u gonna be able to kno everythings goin to decent enuff equipped homes? N not just bought cheaply then re sold on so they can make a quick buck ?

Equipment idea sounds class tho : victory:


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## LizardFTI

StaneyWid said:


> Aye obv ive heard of them
> 
> Massive diff from in the flesh buying markets and over the net tho ?
> 
> Not saying its a bad idea ? Just sounds strange to me to do things like that with "PETS"
> 
> Understand auctionin cows n livestock slightly diff becos its either gettin eaten or bought by a farmer in wellys! If it was done over the net,say i was drunk,n ordered a couple of cows for a laugh....I stay in a flat.....How u gonna know that ? How u gonna be able to kno everythings goin to decent enuff equipped homes? N not just bought cheaply then re sold on so they can make a quick buck ?
> 
> Equipment idea sounds class tho : victory:


Bob Clark does reptile auctions on facebook. I dont see much difference in this honestly, except perhaps more people buying "good deals" that they cant look after.

Question for the OP, could the seller refuse to sell to someone if they thought the highest bidder was unsuitable? The animals welfare needs to be considered.


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## StaneyWid

ELZ1985 said:


> Bob Clark does reptile auctions on facebook. I dont see much difference in this honestly, except perhaps more people buying "good deals" that they cant look after.
> 
> Question for the OP, could the seller refuse to sell to someone if they thought the highest bidder was unsuitable? The animals welfare needs to be considered.


 
Def worded it better than me! Bargains sometimes = Idiots! Gettin something they wouldnt normally off went for! 

But aye good luck with your venture it should do well :welcome:


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## broomy

these are definatley the opinions i welcome. and all points are good ones.
there are certainly points i have to look at before it goes live.
there wilk still be measures in place to prevent idiots buying something they cant look after and so on.
Ebay has sold approximately 2 million marine creatures over the last 12 months be it fish,coral, inverts etc.
so i have no doubt there is a market for this but its got to be right for the buyer,seller and most importantly the animal.
I know the market for farm stock could be massive as farmer travel the length and breadth of the country just to view specific cows lets say. this way they see the pics and all of the details and make a desicion without travelling hundreds of miles.
with reptiles it could be the same. 
I have seen on here people list reps for sale and over the course of a week the price has dropped by 50% because of no takers, so its almost a reverse auction


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## Drayvan

Sounds like a really good idea to me, as long as the highest bidder is vetted for ability as already said. There really isnt any difference between auction and fixed price tbh...in fact this sounds better for the animal in my opinion. At least the OP is putting measures in place to prevent idiots buying what they really shouldn't, you don't get that on fixed price online sales.


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## Tommys Mum

My farming experiance isnt vast (Adams Farm on CountryFile is my mentor), but are you sure farmers will want to buy animals they have not seen in the flesh? I thought the whole point of travelling the legnth and bredth of the country was so they could check on the health of the animal, and so forth, otherwise farmers would just email photos to each other instead of travelling hundreds miles.

Still, all the best with the venture and hope its a success.

I do think the equipment side of its a good idea, just hope its not an already saturated market in that area.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

What happens though when someone advertises, say a cat or a dog, and when the bidder collects it/receives it by courier the animal is not as described? Worse still, suddenly shows signs of being ill etc.

Pet shops offer 24 hours or 7 days "guarantees" depending on the animals - or at least that is what I have read from various threads on here and elsewhere, as I don't buy animals in pet shops.

How are people going to pay? If via Paypal (whether people like it or not) will they help with refunds etc?

I think it could cause all sorts of problems - animals supposedly having been neutered and vaccinated. Receiving one that is already pregnant etc.

A massive case of buyer beware or indeed seller beware also - purely my own opinion though.


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## blood and guts

I can think of at least 3 seprate sites offering the same idea that did not last five minutes, with all the threats we face from the animal rights side is a auction site really the best of ideas? it removes a huge amount of due diligence, advice and guidence and is certently not very ethical. The whole net sales area needs looking into, livestock unless coming from trusted breeders with good back up should be in person for the buyers protection as well, how can you really check the animal is as stated, look for health and behavoiur issues and so on?

Comparing to livestock markets for farm animals just doesent cut it either nor does bringing a certain american wholesaler into it (serch his name on this and other forums, nuff said)..

Im all for new business and ideas but in this case i hope it goes no further, dont wast your money..


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## Tommys Mum

Stephen P said:


> What happens though when someone advertises, say a cat or a dog, and when the bidder collects it/receives it by courier the animal is not as described? Worse still, suddenly shows signs of being ill etc.
> 
> Pet shops offer 24 hours or 7 days "guarantees" depending on the animals - or at least that is what I have read from various threads on here and elsewhere, as I don't buy animals in pet shops.
> 
> How are people going to pay? If via Paypal (whether people like it or not) will they help with refunds etc?
> 
> I think it could cause all sorts of problems - animals supposedly having been neutered and vaccinated. Receiving one that is already pregnant etc.
> 
> A massive case of buyer beware or indeed seller beware also - purely my own opinion though.


 
I would assume alot of these risks are the same as people selling/buying in the newspaper?


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## colinm

I would think that it will be dificult to regulate,otherwise places like Ebay would do it for vertebrates.


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## I LOVE BURMS

I don't like the sound of it basically a 11 year kid could win a retic/burm that is not good!


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## Janine00

broomy said:


> there wilk still be measures in place to prevent idiots buying something they cant look after and so on.


tbh, cannot see how you are going to manage this aspect, and as someone has already said, we have enough people trying to shut us down as hobbyists as it is without this becoming another complication.

Not saying don't do it.... just don't think its a good idea from where I stand. Too much risk for potential buyer, seller and animal.... yes - risks are already there but this is going to make a really easy target for some!


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## broomy

Ultimately it would be down to the seller and buyer to agree the deal. Any breeders would need to supply licenses and any other appropriate paperwork etc.
Ebay was going US was going to launch a animal section a few years back but due to current American eBay users not wishing to see such a section it was stopped, however they opened up an eBay classifieds section with animals.
The main reason it was frowned upon was because of the vast amount of puppy farms etc in the states.
No member would be able to register unless they were 18 years old so the chance of a 13 year old buying something unsuitable would be slim. For example the parent would have to allow the 13 year old to use that website and I don't see a reason for them to do that. It's not like a kid saying "mum can I go on eBay and have a look at things" It's very specific.
From my point of view I would certainly bid for animals or sell them.
I personally don't see the difference between listing an animal on an auction site than on preloved or pets4homes.
So if someone listed one animal on let's say a 5 day auction starting at £10 and someone listed a fixed price sale (buy it now) for £10. The fixed price is no different from a local add in the newspaper. I understand that it is strange to bid on a possible pet but people still want things cheaper whether its a car,tv or pet.
As long as strict measures are in place I don't see a great problem.
As regards someone beingknowledgable enough that is at the discretion of any seller. Someone could register on here with no knowledge whatsoever and after a few weeks reading could fool a seller into selling them a reptile that they have no experience of.
Pet shops will sell anything to anyone 
Thanks you all for these comments they are exactly what I want.
Keep em coming
This is what forums are all about


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Ok, I'll keep the ?s coming!

How will you be able to proof that the person registered for the site is over 18, be it seller or buyer?

When you say the seller must have appropriate paperwork - who will have verified that it is correct?

Have Paypal agreed that they can be one of the payment methods? People seem to have found all sorts of ways getting around payments, ie opening claims, reversing the payment etc. 

When you buy through a newspaper advert I don't know what the comeback is if there are problems afterwards. If it is your site, are you liable in any way?

I see yourself that you have had problems with buying some animals and not receiving them - are any payment methods safe?


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## broomy

1- all registered members would have to supply information on registration. I.e be on the electoral roll.

2- All paperwork I.e licenses would be scanned and emailed to the website. As you would with a drivers license, passport. 

3- PayPal can be attached to any webhost as a payment method and is by far the safest way to pay for anything online. Other forms of payment method such as cheques, bank transfer, cash, postal order could also be used but obviously there is a certain amount of risk with bank transfers as I have experienced.
Anyone who purchases or sells enters into a legally binding contract in exactly the same way as eBay but rules and policies would be In place for any problems such as item not as advertised, buyer not suitable etc.

4- I wouldnt be liable as I would only be offering a service for people to buy and sell livestock.
As with other auction sites the seller assumes responsibility for any shipping if that is a chosen method. It would be up to the seller to apply terms and conditions such as 7 day livestock guarantee and so on.
Recently I sold a piece of electrical equipment on eBay which was in perfect working order when it left my house via courier. The buyer received it and claimed it was faulty, I had to receive the item back and issue a refund, so for my point of view I'm £30 down and have a faulty item.
I'm not for one second saying its going to be perfect as nothIng is but with the right community it could be succesfull


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## blood and guts

broomy said:


> 1- all registered members would have to supply information on registration. I.e be on the electoral roll.
> 
> 2- All paperwork I.e licenses would be scanned and emailed to the website. As you would with a drivers license, passport.


just rings more alarm bells and red tape there..


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## Guest

Good luck but I'm sure a few others have tried this business model only for it to turn out unsuccessful.


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## StaneyWid

Lets just sum this up and ill be blunt

Its Make Or Break Bud simple as that!

Even if you get it right itll draw some attention (If it doesnt u will lose a fortune and some jammy :censor: that sees ur site first b4 its mainstream enuff will make u bankrupt)

And a couple of faults n booooooooom your out the bizness thatll be some "Tight Ship With Rules" that ur gonna have to steer!

$ Wise ? Bill gates on the side are we ? Must have a fair bit bankroll and some buissness plan to pull this one off

If you do you will be a legend

If not you were just another man with a plan that failed epicly!

Either way a genuinely wish you the best of luck and what doesnt break you will only make you stronger!

Or make you bankrupt and give someone a serious :lol2: but thats just the way it is

As 50 cent once said

"The Pet Game Changed My Life Cos Am A Hustler"


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## broomy

i am in no way shape or form investing big.
eveything in life has risks , you either come good from them or not.

Ebay was started in 1994 by 1 bloke selling a faulty laser pen for $14. in 1998 it went live and 12 months later he was a billionaire.
I'm not suggesting in anyway that it would go that way but everything has a beggining.

lets just make a hypothetical scenario.
someone lists a female 2kg piebald python that has a retail of lets say £2k. the seller is willing to let it go for £1000. There is 10 mins left an its on £960 after contact with the seller do u think people would bid????
i think they would

there are many obstacles some maybe impossible to overcome maybe not.
if it does go live and is relative success and someone offered a big sum to buy the site,domain and name then i would sell it.
facebook
google
ebay
ebid
altavista

to name a few that started small and made the original developer ££££££££££££££££


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## StaneyWid

Not investing big ?

Uve mentioned Ebay etc...............The competition? As uve stated they get away with so much so theres a % of ur custom straight away

Then the loyal wont go anywhere else people theres a %

Honestly can you no smell that ?

Horse ???
Sheep ??? 
Kangaroo???

Ahhh wait a know what it is now its ................ :lol2:


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## StaneyWid

Yes and none of them started in the Uk

In the recession


"You just got knocked the flip out,give me ma god darn money :lol2:"


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## StaneyWid

And not just any old recession

An "MnS" Recession! :lol2:


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## Drayvan

StaneyWid said:


> Not investing big ?
> 
> Uve mentioned Ebay etc...............The competition? As uve stated they get away with so much so theres a % of ur custom straight away
> 
> Then the loyal wont go anywhere else people theres a %
> 
> Honestly can you no smell that ?
> 
> Horse ???
> Sheep ???
> Kangaroo???
> 
> Ahhh wait a know what it is now its ................ :lol2:


You dont have to be so rude about it. I dont see the problem, Ebay are used as an example of starting point...they dont deal in vertebrate animals so arent in direct competition for anything other than equipment. Same as every other seller of said equipment has to deal with. Somthing like this wont be easy to gauge reaction and pitfalls until its actually up and running i suspect, and imo i cant see how it could go wrong as long as careful attention is paid to customer/seller satisfaction and safety guarentee


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## StaneyWid

Defo wasnt being rude! 

Told him i want it to be a success!

Ill be one of the first ones on there buying something :2thumb:

So sooner the better then if the mans on a mission the mans on a mission some negative comments aint gonna stop him!

So get in there my man n fill the gap in the market! :2thumb:


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## broomy

Thanks dray,

All comment are appreciated even negative ones that's the reason I started the thread.
Yes we are in a recession,but what do people want in a recession??? A bargain and 70% of auction items are cheaper than the norm.
And I don't understand your % comments, how would it be competing with eBay customers? They don't allow animals dead or alive apart from fish and insects.
If I was making a thread about starting a classifieds website I.e preloved, pets4homes etc no one would have a problem. I don't see any difference other than it would be safer for buyer and seller and there would be an option to list as auction.
I have a web host server, webaddress and 70% script for less than you may think.
All I am doing is offering a website for people to trade on.


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## nickcradd067

Yet again someone comes up with an idea (whether you think it is a good one or not) and everyone just jumps on him and slates him.

If you don't agree with it then simply don't use it!! Don't lie awake at night fearing the damage it is doing, just let it go and get on with your lives.

Good luck to you if you get this off the ground. Only question I have is, is it legal? Animal Welfare Act and all that? I know that eBay themselves have issues with selling vertebrate livestock and if they can't get around laws then I don't suppose you would either...?


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## Alpine

So so so much thought is needed for something of this scale and with what you're considering to auction. So many potential issues. I know I won't even cover half in this post.

Personally, although you can buy livestock online via set prices on websites and they arrive in the post and I have used such services I don't think it's ethical and it was sheer convenience that unfortunately lead me to using them. 

For example I needed a male Alpine newt, bought it online and it arrived lethargic and took hours to recoup itself. Skin looked like it was shedding. I actually wish I'd never bought it to put it through the epic journey. The delivery driver came to my front door waving the box around like it was a mobile phone. 

I also bought a Crown tail Siamese fighter fish via ebay a few years ago. Again it arrived lethargic and on the brink of death it took days in a quarantine to finally go from almost a see through colour to it's normal colour purple, blue black and red. It was packaged well with a heat bag. The same as the Alpine newt bar the heat source.

I only used these sites because I would have to travel the length of the country to find the examples. CT's are very scarce down here I've rarely seen them in Wildwoods and most of the aquatic centres here and never seen an Alpine newt in a store for sale before.

Buying and selling;

Anyway forgetting all that if ebay is anything to go by which is pretty much your business model to a T bar a few clauses with breeders I would personally say, if it survives as an auction site it's going to get a bad rep pretty quickly. I'd also recommend not letting the public sell. Let them buy from approved dealers sure, but leaving the site open for the public to sell pets is a bad idea. 

On ebay when items don't come as described or if the buyer is just a c-unit they will report it straight to paypal and boom seller out of pocket. I know because I used to sell alot on ebay. You always get that one uneducated buyer and of course Paypal 99% of the time sides with the buyer. 

The issue with it being an online auction for livestock has been covered. Twits will use the site. I can't personally see how you are going to actually regulate it properly. People continually bend the rules on ebay and find ways of listing things they shouldn't ect.

I personally hate ebay and think since all these tablets and smart phones have come about ebay has got even worse. People that wouldn't usually venture online can now actively do it when out and about wherever they may be and under any influence. Many people use ebay for drunken shopping sprees. What's going to stop some twit ordering a horse for the lols or a python pay for it and end up with something they didn't really want causing rows ect. 'Oh my youngest son bid sorry' blah blah blah

And finally, and most importantly I wonder how many DOA's there will be, and the quality of the livestock since people will try to breed more, and probably cut corners to feed this auction machine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on no band wagon or any of that forum crap this is my personal opinion and regardless of what anyone else says I'd say it as it is in my eyes.

I wish you luck if you can get it to work and you actually care about the animals welfare and will put in place clauses and actively regulate the activity of the site *which will be pretty much impossible without big pockets and a big team* and aren't just in it to make a quick buck.

Good luck.


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## Guest

Just to reiterate, I've seen this model tried in various forms perhaps half a dozen times and I'm yet to see it work. What you tend to find are largely deserted sites with maybe 6 listings on that nobody ever see's.

The reason auctions work on facebook is twofold, and these are two problems you'll need to overcome:

Facebook is huge - every man and his dog (even a racoon also features on my friends list...) is on there, this means theres already a ery large audience, so people willing to bid on snakes will be there.

Facebook has all the big breeders working to push their brands, and they've realised that auctions are a great way of getting people talking (facebook edgerank anybody?) and drumming up both interest in their snakes and their facebook pages.


Therefore the question is why will your site be better? What will it do that others don't already do? Unfortunately "being cheaper" won't cut it when most big breeders, the ones with the money snakes, already have good FB following where they can sell for free, and most hobbyists might not want to auction off their snakes.

Honestly, I wish you the best of luck but think alot about this, and how you actually intend to monetize it as it will be alot of work. One idea could be to target the big breeders, promising a large month long media buying campaign and free reserves to get the ball rolling, then after month one stop offering free reserves to new customers (leave them there for your existing breeder base to keep the site semi populated) then just take a % of the reserve, but make listing free. Still, it'll be a tricky one!


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## Meko

nickcradd067 said:


> Yet again someone



bumps a thread that was last replied to 9 months ago


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