# Sticky  Guide to EU shows (1st Timers)



## gecko-kus

Alot of people have been asking about our experiences at EU shows and the do's and don'ts so I thought I'd write a little bit down as a rough guide for beginners at the EU shows. If you'd like to add anything please feel free.

1: Transport... Make sure if your planning to go that you have your travel arrangements shorted out well in advance. If your going to drive make sure (especially for Hamm) that you have a sufficient rest and if possible a hotel room to stay in the night before the show, as you'll be surprised how tiring it can be. Also you need to make sure you have your route planned out (satnav is best) because if you don't speak the lingo you might find it really hard to get where you want to go if you ask for directions. Plus AA or another type of break down service is always a good thing to have just in case and it doesn't cost that much to add that extra EU cover (I think it's about £15 per trip).

2: Getting over there... We've always used the tunnel to get over to France but other people use the ferry. The ferry is fine to use but you must remember that coming back you have to leave the animals in the car parking place and it can get cold down there. Also not every ferry company allows animals to be transported on their ships, so you need to check with them before you go. Some people fly over, but you can't bring animals back on the plane. You can look to the coach options that tarantula barn and co offer. You don't have to worry about fuel/getting rest/getting lost etc. so for first timers this may well be the best option. 



3: Money... Take plenty of Euros and if you can get your rate fixed where you change your money so you won't loose anything if you don't spend it all. It's very frustrating and annoying going to shows with no money, even if it's just a small amount you'd be surprised how much you can buy. 



4: Queuing.... Queuing is the thing you will be doing most of to get into the show, so you need to make sure you get there early (many people start queuing at like 5am), if it's in winter rap up warm but be prepared to carry your coat once the show gets going as it will get very hot, even in winter. If you can get a trade pass, then get it as you can get in with the traders and before the rush starts so you don't have to que as much. Which brings me on to the next point, food and drink...



5: Food and Drink... Take plenty of water and a bit of food with you as you won't want to be queuing for them when your in there. The food and drink isn't that expensive and it's really nice (especially the curry-worste not very good at German spelling).



6: Show Rules....You have to remember to take a back pack or something like that as a lot of the shows aren't allowing people to carry animals around in their boxes any more and you can be asked to leave the show if you don't abide by their rules. (If your selling you will be sent a list of rules for displaying and bringing your animals into the show, again you must abide by them or you will be asked to leave). Also you will probably need heat packs and some fresh mineral water if your bring back animals, just to make sure they're ok.



7: Animals....Nearly all the traders will only display the animals Latin name as language is a barrier and Latin is the universal animal code. My best tip is.... if your looking for something in particular take a list of the Latin names so you won't have to worry about it when you get there and a rough price of what your willing to pay and can afford, as you can get carried away. If you are looking for something in particular, say something rare, it's best to find a breeder first before you go and reserve it so you won't be disappointed and you can agree a price. The animals will be displayed with their latin names, sex (ie... 0.0.0 format), rough care (where they are from, adult size etc) and also if they are C.B, W.C, C.F..... If your looking at a particular animal to buy pick up the box and have a good look at it, you can't take it out but just to see if it's alert. We have baught animals before that haven't made it back so do be careful and it's a good idea to ask the trader how long it's been in the box or where they have travelled from, just so you have an idea. 



8: DWA... if your buying DWA animals you must have a license (not for buying them but for customs). Each show has different rules about purchasing animals and carrying them around the show.... The Hamm show used to have the rule that you must leave the show directly by the door of the venomous room if you purchase anything. So picking up things at the end of the day is best.

9: Lastly bringing the animals back... You can bring back any reptile or amphibians but you must make sure that if they are CITES listed that you have paperwork from the trader as you may well get stopped at customs and they be taken away from you. If your selling then you need to make sure you have your paperwork with you if your animals need it. Tortoises are a different kettle of fish and also mammals, so it's best to check or ask someone else who has baught them back as apart from the hedgehogs we baught back I don't have a clue about the rules for these and you don't want them taken off you. You need to make sure you have some water with you too as many of the animals may have been in there box for a while and been de-hydrated. A good rule also is to wait till your home to get your animals out of their boxes as you don't want to have to stripe your car apart to find them lol.



Finally the EU shows are amazing and they are something I would recommend to any hobbyist.... Here's a list of links you may find useful;



CITES: http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.shtml
Shows: http://www.ter.nl/vhm_eventsnl/ 
http://www.tbka.de/termine.php
http://cms.terra-ruhr.de/index.dll__SECURE=a665c57ccd2f57e7a80e82b4b61449b5
http://www.breeders-expo.de/home-E.html
http://www.terraristikahamm.de/

Hope that helps... any more q's don't hesitate to ask or to add anything to here.


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## gecko-kus

any experienced show goers want to add anything?? taranatulabarn you must have something to add...... lol


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## madaboutreptiles

Nice one.......some good information there......:no1:


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## tarantulabarn

gecko-kus said:


> any experienced show goers want to add anything?? taranatulabarn you must have something to add...... lol


Think youve pretty much covered it, apart from paying for duty free in UK sterling to get a better price

A very informative post


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## Dirtydozen

what are thr rules on bringing back hedgehogs


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## Athravan

If anyone gets horrifically car sick like me, I can recommend Harwich -> Hook of Holland, it takes more time, hours wise, but majority are overnight on ferry, and it may not be so cost effective unless you have a full car.. but it's a lifesaver for me as 10+ hours of driving will only result in 10 hours of driving and 5 hours of throwing up :whip: for me, and Houten is 1 hour drive from Hook of Holland, Hamm 3.5 and this new rheda show 3 hours.


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## gecko-kus

forgot to mention a few things;

10: Getting a stall.... If you've been to a show and you fancy the idea of getting a stall for the next one and your at any of the Hamm shows you must book it there for the next show. Tables are usually around 30 euros per table (about 1 1/2 meters) plus an extra 10 euros or so for electricity. For the other shows you just have to find their website and there is usually a big contact thing on there about booking tables. However you need to check how many trader tickets you get per table as if there is more than one of you you will probably need to get more (but they don't cost very much at all).

11: Your first show as a trader..... You've made the jump into being a seller at an EU show and your planning your trip well here's a little check list for you;


Animals - Make sure they are labelled and boxed before you go as you don't want to have to struggle at the show putting things in boxes and loosing animals... make sure you have plenty of poly boxes before you even start packing to put the animals in and also heat packs. You might want to take some water with you too especially for amphibians and some kitchen roll to give the boxes a quick clean. CITES animals need paperwork so you must make sure you have the correct reciets and things written up.
Plan you route/hotel - As mentioned above plan your route well in advance and if pos us a satnav... booking a hotel is a great idea and many hotels area the areas where the shows are allow animals, so have a hunt about (hotel room usually about 50 euros or so per night).
Electrics - Take enough heat mats to cover your table length, an extension lead (pretty big one, a roll one), and a eu convertor for the plug. And something to cover the table is always a good idea.
Rules - You must follow the rules of the show for getting your animals in there otherwise you will be asked to leave!!!
Yourself - Drink and food is always best to be taken in with you as you might not have time hopefully to go get some.
Bags - Many people will not have anything to put their animal in so always take a few plastic bags just incase.
MONEY- We take a small lock up box to put our money in but you have to make sure you have change, it's hard to get hold of but trust me you'll need it!!!!
Finally - enjoy yourself, if there is two or more of you take the time to look around the show and get talking to people!!! it's a great way to make contacts and friends for the future!!


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## Dirtydozen

i thought there was like a three year waiting list to get a tble at hamm


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## gecko-kus

nope they don't start selling tickets for the next show until the last ones date if that makes sense.... it's explained better in my second post... just pm'd you by the way


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## royalpython

blimmey, this place sounds busy. How many people on average go to the shows?

Cheers for some of the tips


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## gecko-kus

for any of the eu shows your looking at into the 1000's and for hamm 10's of 1000's so it's very busy!!! hamm consist of around 3 huge cattle market rooms so you can imagine how big it is


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## cornmorphs

royalpython said:


> blimmey, this place sounds busy. How many people on average go to the shows?
> 
> Cheers for some of the tips


uk shows, about 8 people, euro about 15000


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## Dirtydozen

pretty p'd off now, i thought there was a waiting list or would of bloody booked a table so i could get in sooner


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## royalpython

cornmorphs said:


> uk shows, about 8 people, euro about 15000


Great. I never knew there'd be so much people. Should still be fun, i'll bring all my own food and drink, less quing for me. Are you allowed alcohol in there?:whistling2:


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## gecko-kus

i'm pretty sure you can buy beer from the food bit but i don't think you can take it in


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## royalpython

ok cool  hopefully be able to get something sorted of it anyway.


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## cornmorphs

royalpython said:


> Great. I never knew there'd be so much people. Should still be fun, i'll bring all my own food and drink, less quing for me. Are you allowed alcohol in there?:whistling2:


its an experience thats for sure


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## gecko-kus

if you do get a chance to have some food have it because it's very yummy and not that expensive!!! plus you need fuel esepcially with the heat as I know from experience. You can get caught up in it and not eat allday then feel really bad and you don't want that driving home!!!


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## Athravan

Take an electric cattle prod in with you and you'll clear the crowds easier... :whistling2:


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## gecko-kus

Athravan said:


> Take an electric cattle prod in with you and you'll clear the crowds easier... :whistling2:


good point... caimens don't work no more lol


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## gecko-kus

ooo i just had a thought.... the big brand's will also be at the shows and you get a chance to see their new products plus buy stuff from them you can't get over here!!! Dragon and Pet Factory as well are stalls you have to look out for!!! very good products and prices.... anyone else got suggestions for traders to look out for?


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## Daredevil

Good information!! Maybe make this thread a sticky so there won't be all the questions again??:no1:


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## gecko-kus

bradhollands999 said:


> Good information!! Maybe make this thread a sticky so there won't be all the questions again??:no1:


Your Welcome.... I put this together because I know when I went the first time I didn't have a clue and I could have done with a thing like this just to give me an idea especially with bringing animals back through customs, it's very frightening when you don't know if your allowed lol.


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## Daredevil

:lol2: I can imagine!! What happens if you buy an adult Burm for example?? Do you just have to put it in a box and push it round the whole day??


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## gecko-kus

if your buying something that big it's probably best to see if you can leave it with the trader rather than carrying it around with you.... but i have seen people carrying caimens around under their arm lol....


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## matty

Nice one mate, really helpful.

Just a quickie though, you said that the animals are advertised with their latin names, how do you know about what hets the animal carries?

Thanks


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## Fixx

gecko-kus said:


> but i have seen people carrying caimens around under their arm lol....


Jerry Cole was told to remove his from his stand in December at Hamm, not sure if it was because he was in the main hall and not in the venomous hall though, or they have just banned them from the show though.



bradhollands999 said:


> :lol2: I can imagine!! What happens if you buy an adult Burm for example?? Do you just have to put it in a box and push it round the whole day??


Not sure if adult burm's and other large snakes are allowed to be sold/displayed at Hamm, I never saw any.


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## snickers

I wanna go!!

I'm pretty sure I read something on the forum about some importation documents even for herps. And are there more rules for european herps than exotics?

As someone else suggested can this be stickied so it doesn't cycle off the forum?


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## gecko-kus

matty__=) said:


> Nice one mate, really helpful.
> 
> Just a quickie though, you said that the animals are advertised with their latin names, how do you know about what hets the animal carries?
> 
> Thanks


if they are het's they will be displayed with their het and morph etc...


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## gecko-kus

Fixx said:


> Jerry Cole was told to remove his from his stand in December at Hamm, not sure if it was because he was in the main hall and not in the venomous hall though, or they have just banned them from the show though.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if adult burm's and other large snakes are allowed to be sold/displayed at Hamm, I never saw any.


the rules are changing all the time so if you are a trader you should be given a new set of rules each time you apply for a stall, but it's always best to check with the organisers... I know that for many of the dutch shows they have banned venomous completely apart from at snake day.

You can have larger snakes on sale at shows but they need to be in massive containers so many traders don't bother.

That's something I forgot to mention display box size.... many of the shows will only allow one animal per box and the box has to be 1 and 1/2 times the size of the animal so they have sufficient turning space... with snakes its their size when they are curled up. Not like in american shows where they shove royals into tubs eactly their same size.... but do check before you go on the rules for the show your trading at.


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## madaboutreptiles

So wheres the best place to get loads of euro's without robbing a bank?...:whistling2:


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## gecko-kus

Palmanda said:


> So wheres the best place to get loads of euro's without robbing a bank?...:whistling2:


we've found that thomas cook is one of the best... especially if your changing alot as they can freeze the rate so they buy it back from you at the rate you baught it from them.... it saves alot of money and it's commision free. oh i think it costs about £5 to freeze it


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## matty

gecko-kus said:


> if they are het's they will be displayed with their het and morph etc...


 
Yeh, but in what language?


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## Dirtydozen

will say hetro........


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## madaboutreptiles

Dirtydozen said:


> will say hetro........


i thought that ment the snake is not gay??????


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## gecko-kus

matty__=) said:


> Yeh, but in what language?


should be in english but you can always ask if not, but i've never seen it not in english


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## weeminx

good piece of info there i think it should be a sticky too.


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## matty

gecko-kus said:


> should be in english but you can always ask if not, but i've never seen it not in english


 
Thanks


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## cornmorphs

Palmanda said:


> i thought that ment the snake is not gay??????


lol, dude what?


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## madaboutreptiles

cornmorphs said:


> lol, dude what?


 
Whoosh!!!.......straight over your head........:lol2:


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## Athravan

Palmanda said:


> So wheres the best place to get loads of euro's without robbing a bank?...:whistling2:


I always get mine from Marks and Spencers. Last time I was there the cashier told me that they phone around all the other currency places and travel agents first thing every morning, and then try to beat all their prices even if it's just by a tiny bit - but if you're converting thousands, a tiny bit adds up.

Everytime I've checked they have beaten all the other big names


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## madaboutreptiles

I will have to shop around a bit for sure, I am paid in U.S dollers so I may get a decent rate from my bank.....unless someone needs dollers for euro's.......


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## cornmorphs

Palmanda said:


> Whoosh!!!.......straight over your head........:lol2:


no i got it lol


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## cornmorphs

i always look around our local shopping centre, there is about 5 places that do it.


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## madaboutreptiles

cornmorphs said:


> no i got it lol


:lol2:


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## gecko-kus

I've just put together a small list of traders to look out for at the EU shows, they may not always be at every one, but they all have good prices and products that you may not be able to find in the UK;

Traders;

Products:


Pet Factory - A German company who attend most EU shows, with a wide selection of live plants substrates and specialist foods (especially exotic mammals)
Dragon - I believe that this is a german company too with excellent products particulary their rain systems and egg laying boxes.
Namibaterra - Another german company, but they have amazing products for amphibs.
Exo-Terra - They have a stalls mainly at hamm but are worth a look as you get a chance to see their new products before they are launched.
Zoo-Med - Same as Exo-Terra
MS Reptilien - A huge selection of products and very good snake hooks and probes.
Cork Bark - You won't miss this!!!
Exotic Design - Very nice Ornaments!!
Breeders:

Snakes - 

Bob Clarke (Boas/Retics)
Crystal Palace (royals + a few others)
Ray Hine (royals)
UK Pythons
La Ferme Tropical (Everything)
Geckos - 

Ray Hine (Leopard Geckos)
Crystal Palace (Leo's, Nephurus)
Many other stalls
Amphibs - 

Rana (Dartfrogs)
E.N.T (very good equipment and vivs)
Spiders - 

Can't think of the guys name but he has a huge stall!!! you won't miss him lol.
If you like preserved bugs look out for this stall
If there's anything else please add lol.... so many!!!


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## annewynne

*hamm show*

please could anyone give me any info,do they sell any primates or mammals of any description,ie-marmoset-and any prices,etc,many thanks


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## gecko-kus

annewynne said:


> please could anyone give me any info,do they sell any primates or mammals of any description,ie-marmoset-and any prices,etc,many thanks


Your more likely to find smaller mammals eg. mice/gerbils/exotic mice at hamm rather than larger primates...
Larger primates you might be able to get in houten and you can certainly get alot of mammals there in april as that's the reptile and animal show. But bringing primates back, i don't know the laws on this and they would probably need to be quarantined.


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## Fixx

gecko-kus said:


> Your more likely to find smaller mammals eg. mice/gerbils/exotic mice at hamm rather than larger primates...
> Larger primates you might be able to get in houten and you can certainly get alot of mammals there in april as that's the reptile and animal show. But bringing primates back, i don't know the laws on this and they would probably need to be quarantined.


All primates and carnivores must spend 6 months in quarantine when being imported into the UK.

DEFRA


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## gecko-kus

Fixx said:


> All primates and carnivores must spend 6 months in quarantine when being imported into the UK.
> 
> DEFRA


Well now we know.. thanks for that fixx


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## annewynne

thanks for the information,much appreciated.


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## James King

So when buying from a reptile show for example hamm to bring back an animal id have to get cites paperwork from the breeder/trader?


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## clnorwell

hello everyone i dont know if peole have already given this information, but, my other half has had reptiles all his life but we dont breed, but we are very intrested in going to shows not pref to buy just to see different reptiles etc just wondering if anyone could tell me of any coming near norfolk any time soon, and the best way to find out about shows tickets etc and if breeder shows are open to everyone or just bredders?


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## stoz

*hey*

hiya im hopefully going to the hamm germany show in march. im a 1st timer and was just wondering what c.b, w.c and c.f mean?
also can we buy tickets to the show on the door or online ect and how much is it for a trade pass?

please email
many thanks
emma


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## luke1983

stoz said:


> hiya im hopefully going to the hamm germany show in march. im a 1st timer and was just wondering what c.b, w.c and c.f mean?
> ] Dunno about the rest but C.B is Captive Bred, W.C is Wild Caught and C.F is captive Farmed.
> 
> I also want to knoe the rest of what you asked.


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## purejurrasic

stoz said:


> hiya im hopefully going to the hamm germany show in march. im a 1st timer and was just wondering what c.b, w.c and c.f mean?
> also can we buy tickets to the show on the door or online ect and how much is it for a trade pass?
> 
> please email
> many thanks
> emma


cb = captive bred
cf = captive farmed (Parents were/are wild)
wc = wild caught

Places like hamm sell tickets on the door, and traders passes are only available when booking tables to sell.


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## lisafay

*cheers!*

Just wanted to say cheers for all the info guys!
I'm going for the first time next month - may 30th - can't wait! Reading all this has made me even more excited!!!! 
Travelling from Ireland, so it's gonna be a bitch, but at least i don't have to worry about the euro conversion rates! 
Does anyone know if it really is the best thing to prebook your animals, or could i end up disappointed, finding them cheaper with other people on the day? I'm such a show novice!


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## excession

Some great info indeed!

I am entertaining the idea of going to Hamm, possibly as a trader to get some European exposure for our products.

Thanks for this post! 

I am on holiday for the next show so thats impossible.

Was I right in thinking the next show at Hamm is in December?

Has anyone got any pics of a Hamm show they went too>?


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## Guy

Where the website link for the hamm show? I seem cant find it unless there is a specific show name?


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## fatfecker

Another thing I don't think anyone has mentioned is make sure you leave your coats/jumpers on the coach/in the car, it gets very warm in the rooms.


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## exboyz04

*latin names*

Regarding animals that are advertised with their latin names, how do you find out what they are as i cant seam to find anything on the internet. Im going for leopard geckos and would like to have a ideah what morphs are what, lol help pls pls pls :lol2:


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## fatbloke

cornmorphs said:


> its an experience thats for sure


 that it is dude bloody long time on the coach aswell lol


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## jay67

Hi folks,
I was wondering if any of you guys n galls have any experiance of the Hamm show as a vendor? I'm looking for experiances in regard to costs (table, ferries, travel, and local hotels) mainly but all advice would be welcome. I had planned on booking a table for December but their site doesn't say how to book a table.
Jay


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## Emma86

I would like to go to Hamm this year, my partner will drive us. When is it, where exactly is it? Do you have to pay on the door to get in? Do you buy tickets in advance? I really don't have any idea how it works. Is there a website or something? Help lol!


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## Hesperia

gecko-kus said:


> 9: Lastly bringing the animals back... You can bring back any reptile or amphibians but you must make sure that if they are CITES listed that you have paperwork from the trader as you may well get stopped at customs and they be taken away from you. If your selling then you need to make sure you have your paperwork with you if your animals need it. *Tortoises are a different kettle of fish and also mammals, so it's best to check or ask someone else who has baught them back* as apart from the hedgehogs we baught back I don't have a clue about the rules for these and you don't want them taken off you. You need to make sure you have some water with you too as many of the animals may have been in there box for a while and been de-hydrated. A good rule also is to wait till your home to get your animals out of their boxes as you don't want to have to stripe your car apart to find them lol.


So... has any had any difficulty bringing back tortoises or mammals? I think as long as you have the paperwork it'll be fine but I'm not sure.


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## Mapmatt

Do they have plenty of turtle dealers at Hamm too? l am off in September for the first time and just wondering if any one knows off a good Turtle Dealer, please!!!:notworthy:


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## oscarsi001

*is cash necessary ???*

hey guys , planning on joining the creaks trip to hamm next month as a eu show newbie :grin1: , am v,excited but slightly concerned about walking around with a huge (lol ) wad of euros in my pocket in such a crowded place. surely it must be heaven-sent for pick-pockets , do the traders/breeders not have credit/debit card facilities ???????

also, at the risk of sounding REEEEALLY stupid, but as i have absolutely no idea of how long it takes to get there, is it one long drive through the night to get there and thwn another long drive through the night to return home ?

thanks guys.......


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