# impaction and moss???



## twydell (Jul 29, 2008)

i put some moss with my tree frogs, and i noticed when they go for crickets sometimes they get a bit of salad with them lol ( moss).... the moss cant cause them harm can it???


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

It certainly can cause impaction, it depends on how moist it is, nice wet sphagnum can pass through with little trouble, the drier it is the worse the trouble!


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## TheToad888 (Dec 18, 2008)

It has been known for that to happen but I have never had a problem


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

certainly seen cases of it, and heard of many more. i dont have moss in any of my setups. cocofibre is the way to go


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I removed my moss sharpish due to seeing this too, I was worried about impaction, I just use good old coco fibre (eco earth) now


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

Oh i use moss hope that dose not happen to mine.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

pepsirat said:


> Oh i use moss hope that dose not happen to mine.


so you know the risk but rather than remove the moss you are just going to hope none of yours ingest it, become impacted and die? 

I let my kids play on the road. I hope they don't get hit by a car!


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

Thats the first time i have hear about the moss causing that thank you very much. I will replace it as soon as i can what i mean by i hope it dose not happen to mine because iv been using it.

Their is no need to take that tone with me now is their. I have read nothing about moss doing that so when i was buying it i thought i was doing right by my frogs.


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## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

pepsirat said:


> Thats the first time i have hear about the moss causing that thank you very much. I will replace it as soon as i can what i mean by i hope it dose not happen to mine because iv been using it.
> 
> Their is no need to take that tone with me now is their. I have read nothing about moss doing that so when i was buying it i thought i was doing right by my frogs.


Pesp, I agree, there was no need in the attitude coming form that post (if you've nothing good to say....and all that!!)

For information, two of the best shops in the NE use wetted moss as substrate and have no problems, ad indeed recommend the use of it. All horses for courses, each to their own, I have been told coco husk isnt the best either!!

Ben


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I've read about impaction all over the place. I guess you didn't do much research before buying. Of course some common sense also helps.


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## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

I take advice from proven experts. Not JUST what I read. Some experts DO recommend it.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

lol this is pointless. I hope for the sake of whatever creatures you have on moss that can get impacted that it does not happen to them but chances are that it will. Why some people trust a so called experts word that it won't over proven cases and common sense I'll never know. I won't get involved any further. The risks is obvious and doesn't really need me to argue that.


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

So if we carnt take the word of an expert why can we take your word for it. I will look into it i do want the best for my frogs i think everyone dose. But somtimes you miss thing and some advice says one thing and the other adive says another.

As for common sence i thought well their is moss in the wild and some people i know said they had no problems with it. However i will look it up and do more resarch.

Talking to people like that is not helping anyone if you think somone is doing it wrong of course let them know but the way you did it might make people not want to lisen to you.


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## Joe1507 (Aug 11, 2008)

It can cause impaction, but as long as the frog only ingests it rarely, its not likely to do any damage, try to keep the salad as you put it, moist.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

I guess just be careful when feeding, i feed mine with forceps because my tank has no lid and I don't want crickets getting out!:2thumb:


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## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

Joe1507 said:


> It can cause impaction, but as long as the frog only ingests it rarely, its not likely to do any damage, try to keep the salad as you put it, moist.





andy07966 said:


> I guess just be careful when feeding, i feed mine with forceps because my tank has no lid and I don't want crickets getting out!:2thumb:


Thats what I was told to do - Watch the frogs eat, take a bit of care over them, dont just feed and leave!! 

To be honest, I dont keep mine on moss as Im not too keen on the look of it, but it was suggested in 2 shops by 2 sucessful breeders. I am on eco earth at the moment, but will be going to amphifoam soon!!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

pepsirat said:


> So if we carnt take the word of an expert why can we take your word for it. I will look into it i do want the best for my frogs i think everyone dose. But somtimes you miss thing and some advice says one thing and the other adive says another.
> 
> As for common sence i thought well their is moss in the wild and some people i know said they had no problems with it. However i will look it up and do more resarch.
> 
> Talking to people like that is not helping anyone if you think somone is doing it wrong of course let them know but the way you did it might make people not want to lisen to you.


It's not about taking Simon's word for it, best to look at the argument presented and evaluate it on it's own merits. To me it seems that any risk of impaction, however small, should be avoided.

I don't however, agree with the tone taken. Unhelpful and unneccessary. It's clear you're trying to find out what's best for your frog.


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## andy07966 (Mar 10, 2009)

I use humus brick stuff, eco earth type i think. Its cheaper and easier anyway.


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## murph3010 (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh god now i find this out i have my viv full off moss. to keep humidity up and my fog arrives wednesday. Used to be the thing to do was keep frogs with moss now it isnt! god i need to keep up with the times:whistling2:


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## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

Morgan Freeman makes a lot of sense. Take advice form people you trust, look at all of the available substrates and take your choice, they all ahve good and bad points IMHO.

I think Simon's opinion is very valid and worth consideration (just not the same as other advice I have been goven by local breeders), but it would have been better as advice and less than dictation.

Murph, ecoearth is dirt cheap and may even hep with humidity as it has good water retention


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## murph3010 (Jan 2, 2009)

bpc said:


> Morgan Freeman makes a lot of sense. Take advice form people you trust, look at all of the available substrates and take your choice, they all ahve good and bad points IMHO.
> 
> I think Simon's opinion is very valid and worth consideration (just not the same as other advice I have been goven by local breeders), but it would have been better as advice and less than dictation.
> 
> Murph, ecoearth is dirt cheap and may even hep with humidity as it has good water retention


 
Im on not on eco earth i will check it out and im about to move some of the moss but im not taking it all out it does look nice.:2thumb:


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

pepsirat said:


> As for common sence i thought well their is moss in the wild and some people i know said they had no problems with it. However i will look it up and do more resarch.


I guess it depends on what species we're discussing really, but Twydell's white's would never come into contact with any moss like this in their natural environment;










This is a selection of the first few pieces of sphagnum I picked out of my bag (for my snakes  ). The piece on the right is actually 10" long...

Sphagnum is a peatbog moss, none of the amphibians we're keeping as pets would naturally come into contact with moss like this. At the least, you should chop the moss into smaller sections, it really needs to be used almost wet for larger lunge feeding amphibians, which will at least help passage through the gut slightly, the drier the moss is the more abrasive and clogging it can be.


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

Yes i agree if their is a small chance its best not to use it i understand that and agree. I do keep my moss damp and do watch my frogs eat. I will be trying somthing eals.

All what i said was i hope that dose not happen to mine, what i should of carryed on to say is i look it up and stop using it. But if he realy wants the best for peoples frog you dont talk to people like that because they wont lisen. 

I will lisen because i care for my frogs i got a book done some resarch on the frogs i was getting but didnt see anything on that. was told by somone who keeped frogs that they used moss and to be honest didnt question it. So yes im guilty of that but you could of said hay i realy wouldnt use that ect. maby cose i did not type in using moss with frogs. 

If im doing somthing wrong i welcome people telling me and ill fix it. Just dont like to be spoken to like that.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

pepsirat said:


> Yes i agree if their is a small chance its best not to use it i understand that and agree. I do keep my moss damp and do watch my frogs eat. I will be trying somthing eals.
> 
> All what i said was i hope that dose not happen to mine, what i should of carryed on to say is i look it up and stop using it. But if he realy wants the best for peoples frog you dont talk to people like that because they wont lisen.
> 
> ...


To be honest I would do exactly as you are doing, honestly weigh it up for yourself and make your own choice 

I posted the pic and information I had just to help that not because I think it is the devil's work or either way 

We use moss substrate mainly for much smaller Amphibians here (Strawberry Dart Frogs, Golden Mantellas, Nectophrynoides climbing toads, etc) But the only time we use it with larger frogs or treefrogs is when it is kept almost saturated (Mossy frogs in their dry season  Malayan leaf frogs etc) 

Lotte***


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> To be honest I would do exactly as you are doing, honestly weigh it up for yourself and make your own choice
> 
> I posted the pic and information I had just to help that not because I think it is the devil's work or either way
> 
> ...


Cheers my frogs are quiet small at the moment. I am new to frogs and do want the best for them. It can get so confusing somtimes when you hear diffrent advice. But i think your right look at all the information and come to your own conclusion.

Cheers
Emma: victory:


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

pepsirat said:


> Cheers my frogs are quiet small at the moment. I am new to frogs and do want the best for them. It can get so confusing somtimes when you hear diffrent advice. But i think your right look at all the information and come to your own conclusion.
> 
> Cheers
> Emma: victory:


tbh, when you start keeping amphibians or even reptiles, theres a mine field of information to wade through.
Its not uncommon for people to use moss because thats what they were sold when they bought their frog and what they were advised is good to keep humidity up, the frogs like to hide in it..etc etc.
you wouldnt have known any different or the differing opinions on substrate.
bags of harvested moss are sold in most reptile supply shops so its normal to think that it is safe..... and sometimes it is, it just depends on what species its being used with. But i think by now most of us have heard the horror stories of impaction by certain substrates. just because reptile sand is sold in reptile shops doesnt mean it doesnt carry the risk of impaction in lizards. just as calci sand is also sold, with the by line that if your lizard ingests it, its good because its got calcium in it.... but it still carries the same risk of impaction.

The best advice i think anyone can offer is to have a good read and do some searches online for true stories of impaction and what caused it, and then you can make up your own mind.
Dont take some peoples harsh words to heart, they probably do have your frogs welfare at heart, but they probably have more enthusiasm than tact in getting their message across.

take care.


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## pepsirat (Feb 5, 2009)

Pliskens_Chains said:


> tbh, when you start keeping amphibians or even reptiles, theres a mine field of information to wade through.
> Its not uncommon for people to use moss because thats what they were sold when they bought their frog and what they were advised is good to keep humidity up, the frogs like to hide in it..etc etc.
> you wouldnt have known any different or the differing opinions on substrate.
> bags of harvested moss are sold in most reptile supply shops so its normal to think that it is safe..... and sometimes it is, it just depends on what species its being used with. But i think by now most of us have heard the horror stories of impaction by certain substrates. just because reptile sand is sold in reptile shops doesnt mean it doesnt carry the risk of impaction in lizards. just as calci sand is also sold, with the by line that if your lizard ingests it, its good because its got calcium in it.... but it still carries the same risk of impaction.
> ...


 Cheers that is good advice


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## twydell (Jul 29, 2008)

andy07966 said:


> I guess just be careful when feeding, i feed mine with forceps because my tank has no lid and I don't want crickets getting out!:2thumb:


i would do that but 1 of them refuses to eat from my hand... he just puts his head down in frustration ... lol..the other 1 is just a pig and eats anything i give him


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## bpc (Mar 7, 2009)

Pliskens_Chains said:


> tbh, when you start keeping amphibians or even reptiles, theres a mine field of information to wade through.
> Its not uncommon for people to use moss because thats what they were sold when they bought their frog and what they were advised is good to keep humidity up, the frogs like to hide in it..etc etc.
> you wouldnt have known any different or the differing opinions on substrate.
> bags of harvested moss are sold in most reptile supply shops so its normal to think that it is safe..... and sometimes it is, it just depends on what species its being used with. But i think by now most of us have heard the horror stories of impaction by certain substrates. just because reptile sand is sold in reptile shops doesnt mean it doesnt carry the risk of impaction in lizards. just as calci sand is also sold, with the by line that if your lizard ingests it, its good because its got calcium in it.... but it still carries the same risk of impaction.
> ...


I agree, that is sterling advice!!:no1:


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