# Gerbilarium=Paludarium?



## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

I got this tank called a gerbilarium as a present from a car boot sale lol! seems ideal for making a paludarium.


The dimensions are 39cm high by 61cm long by 32deep (Wierd I know)
that's about 15 by 24 by 12.5 inches respectively










Sorry about the crappy pic, but you can see it has 3 glass shelves. I am planning on more decor btw. I am planning on having a foam background, a water area at the bottom (which doesn't reach the bottom shelf due to a ventilator on the side of the tank) and a little waterfall/stream going between the shelves.

But I have a few questions.
1-If i drilled through the two shelves on the right, could I have a submersible pump in 10cm (4 inch) deep water.
2-If so how do you drill through glass?
3-Can I make a waterfall out of expanding foam/polystyrene covered in grout? If not what should I use?
4- I plan to keep red spotted newts in there. Do they leech toxins into the water?

Thanks.


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## jamesthornton (Nov 24, 2008)

Wow looks perfect for it. I have no idea about the questions though lol


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## Darbz (Mar 22, 2009)

axorozzas said:


> I
> But I have a few questions.
> 1-If i drilled through the two shelves on the right, could I have a submersible pump in 10cm (4 inch) deep water.
> 2-If so how do you drill through glass?
> ...


Nice looking tank, cool design.

as for the questions...

1. I don't see why not, perhaps try something like the exo-terra waterfall pump?

2. It is possible to drill glass, but you have to be careful (obviously! :2thumb
You'll need to remove the shelves to drill them though, it's not really safe to do it in situ.
You need to place the glass on an extremely flat surface, and using a glass drill bit (and yes, it will have to be a special drill bit) drill into the glass with a slow steady pressure, if you go to hard or fast you are likely to crack the glass.

Remember to leave approx an inch from the edge, not any closer or the glass might chip and break off.

When you are just about through to the other side you need to flip the glass over and finish the hole from that side. If you just drill straight through the whole thing the 'back' side of the glass will spall or chip.

Oh and I'd reccomend starting with a small guide hole and using a series of drill bits to achieve the desired size.

3.Yes, you can.

4. Not kept them so can't help you there! :lol2:


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Cheers Darbz!: victory:

hmm.. sounds like a lot of work with the shelves, could I use a rubber pipe instead and bend it round?


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## Darbz (Mar 22, 2009)

axorozzas said:


> Cheers Darbz!: victory:
> 
> hmm.. sounds like a lot of work with the shelves, could I use a rubber pipe instead and bend it round?


Yeah that might work....what I think would be easiest, if you put the pump in the middle, run a tube up the centre and use expanding foam and grout to create the water fall in the middle as a focal point


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks but I'm really geared on the idea of using the shelves as a waterfall.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

ok. I'm looking for a small pump with an integrated filter. the water area is only 12.5 litres (2.8 gallons) and 10cm deep.

looking at the 7W 250L/H Aquarium Submersible Sponge Filter Water Pump. (a mouthfull I know) but the only ones I can seem to find on ebay come from Hong Kong, so postage is ridiculous!

Any recommendations?


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## ukreticnut (Jan 4, 2008)

when drilling glass its best to make a ring of blue tac and put around the area being drilled, then put water inside the ring (filling area of drill site). that way the glass wont crack due to heat increase.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

axorozzas said:


> I got this tank called a gerbilarium as a present from a car boot sale lol! seems ideal for making a paludarium.
> 
> 
> The dimensions are 39cm high by 61cm long by 32deep (Wierd I know)
> ...


NOOOOOOO you stole my idea, some how you reached into my head and stole my idea :gasp:


:lol2:


basically i picked one of these up about 2 months ago cheap of preloved and have been vaguely planning a very similar idea but for long tailed salamanders. (shevles as water fall bit of it anyway)

ok fist of all put some water in it if you havent already, mine leaked like a sieve also you might wanna think about blocking up the air bit as i dont think your gonna get enought water depth, and finally be aware that red spotted newts dont really like too much current in the water.

p.s. red spotted newts dont have any major skin toxins.


except for thinking up the idea i havent really had many thoughts on how to do it successfully so i might be stealing ideas once you've finished this :whistling2:


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

Why not have an external pump.
cheers arthur


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

> NOOOOOOO you stole my idea, some how you reached into my head and stole my idea :gasp:


:lol2:well..Great minds think alike!

and thanks 4 the advice. I've scrapped the idea of red spotted's now. I'm thinking of maybe a few guppies (I know they will breed lol) and a coupla dwarf clawed frogs in the water section, and a pair of gold dust day geckos running around the rest. Any problems with this please tell me (Apart from the whole mixing species is a bad idea thing, I have thought this through)



> fist of all put some water in it if you havent already, mine leaked like a sievealso you might wanna think about blocking up the air bit as i dont think your gonna get enought water depth.


Yes it is watertight up to the ventilator. The water depth is 10cm as I've mentioned, but now I think about it it probably isn't deep enough. What should I use to seal it? just a big blob of aquarium sealant?



> Why not have an external pump


If I'm not mistaken, these are too powerful for what I'll be using it for.

Also was thinking of getting small, semi aquatic frogs, but can't find any suitable and not sure if this is a good idea with day geckos.


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

You can adjust the flow of most pumps. Whatever you put in with the day geckos should be non toxic, they are quite delicate in that respect.
cheers arthur.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

> Whatever you put in with the day geckos should be non toxic, they are quite delicate in that respect.


Yes Dwarf clawed Frogs are non-toxic. They are also completely aquatic, so won't compete with them at all either.:smile:

.


> You can adjust the flow of most pumps


Ok I'll have a look around for external pumps too. This might be better since it's a lot more accessible when I want to clean it.


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

Good luck, be interested to see the final result.
cheers arthur


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Thnks. I'll keep you posted on . Might be a while before serious work is done since I have exams soon (I'm on here in between revision lol)

Just had this lying there and thought I'd fancy a project. Spend some money and keep me sane during studies. I'm going to enjoy this lol


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## gilbery007 (Apr 24, 2009)

Really good idea this one... Can't wait to see the finished product though, i'm sure it's gonna be fantastic.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Questions. Questions!!!

Sorry about all the questions and no action. I did actually go shopping today in the local aquarium shops (but got nothing except a thermometer lol!) 

anyway. Found a small water pump made for indoor water features. adjustable flow. £12.99. this ok?

and is a repti-glo UV bulb essential, or can I use one of the plant grow ones?

...and...(prepares for hate mail) can I keep vampire crabs with dwarf clawed frogs? (despite the name "vampire" they are not bloodthirsty) look here
I will try the fish section if I can't get an answer here.


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## tigerpaws (Feb 21, 2009)

axorozzas said:


> ok. I'm looking for a small pump with an integrated filter. the water area is only 12.5 litres (2.8 gallons) and 10cm deep.
> 
> looking at the 7W 250L/H Aquarium Submersible Sponge Filter Water Pump. (a mouthfull I know) but the only ones I can seem to find on ebay come from Hong Kong, so postage is ridiculous!
> 
> Any recommendations?


why not just go for a exoterra waterfall pump.. about £15 from your rep shop.. 

alan


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

The crabs don't appear agressive and they live on land and the frogs are aquatic. If it were me I would put them together but keep a very close eye, if they can take a cricket they may be able to take a very small frog, so i'd urge caution.
cheers arthur.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Cheers Arthur. I have heard they are ok with shrimps even though they eat crickets, but like you say,I should be cautious. I think it would be fascinating to have some of theses in there.

It really frustrated me yesterday because the fish shop had 3 of these crabs and I've heard they're rarely available, but obviously I can't keep them right now lol.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

> why not just go for a exoterra waterfall pump.. about £15 from your rep shop..


Just got one £11 off ebay including postage :2thumb:


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

Good luck, be intresting how you get on.
cheers arthur


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks.

Heres a pic of my basic plan:











As you can see I took out the mopani wood in favour of the piece of bog wood. I was itching to get that in because it has a bowl in the middle I can plant a bromeliad inside! It currently still needs soaking, it's just there for show at the moment.

The branches near the top are driftwood.

I've also stuck a coconut half to one of the branches so I can grow another bromeliad or small orchid in there.

The green thing is a simple air-pump driven sponge filter.

The waterfall will start on the right end of the top shelf, running down to the left end of the middle one and then running along a shallow stream on the bottom platform where it should cascade down the rocks. The rock arrangement isn't stuck with sillicon, but it is very stable (i.e. jammed!)

I'm gonna start making the polystyrene waterfall first. I've also got some thick carboard tubes from wrapping paper which I'll use to make fake branches with by foaming the outside, and these will house the tubes, aswell as give it a more rainforest feel. 

Plant out the land areas before I do the water section as I don't want to get soil and stuff in the water.

Cycle the water section and plant it out. Then cycle it with cheap fish (Guppies?) to make sure the water is fine before I add any other animals.

Any problems or questions please tell me.

Thanks everyone for showing interest!:thumb:


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

I can see a few issues (no offence) so thought it might be helpful to you to list them.

1. Not sure how you're going to control where the water flows over each shelf. Rather than it cascading onto the shelf on the right, it could just pour over the left hand side. Unless I'm missing the waterfall plan...lol

2. I think the crabs would give the frogs grief and the frogs would eat the fish. Dont forget anything thats above the water will crap in it, so the filtration will need to be able to deal with this, otherwise you'll have manky, ammonia filled water.

3. Have you checked the head height of the pump you intend to use? Is it strong enough to get the water to the top?

If you're only having the water going just up to the vent there's nothing stopping you from making a hole in the vent to pass the pump tubing through. Then you could pass it externally to the waterfall.

Hope that helps a bit. Awesome idea, going to be interesting watching this one : victory:


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

No problem vase, all criticism is appreciated.

1. Sorry, I haven't made it too clear. The grout covered polystyrene will form a raised channel/basin or whatever you want to call it, that will have a lip over the shelf . Of course, the end I want the waterfall to go down will be cut out so it doesn't just make an overflowing pool.

2. Since I've now had 2 comments about the crabs, I'm going to leave them out now. As much as I'd love to have some, animal welfare comes first.



> the frogs would eat the fish


Just to clarify, these are *dwarf* clawed frogs, not clawed frogs I am keeping. 
Part of the idea is that they eat the baby guppies as they breed. This will provide an alternative food source for the frogs while I am away on weekends. 

Are they big enough to eat adult guppies?



> Dont forget anything thats above the water will crap in it, so the filtration will need to be able to deal with this, otherwise you'll have manky, ammonia filled water.


I have born this in mind. I know the air pump filters are good for keeping phibs, and they crap in the water alot. (providing the sponge is rinsed every month). Since the water is relatively shallow, a power filter may overheat it, or make too much current which could stress the frogs.

I'm going to do partial water changes aswell. 



> If you're only having the water going just up to the vent there's nothing stopping you from making a hole in the vent to pass the pump tubing through. Then you could pass it externally to the waterfall.


Thanks! didn't think of that. Definitely be simpler but I've been told the water area may not be deep enough. I'll take another pic filled with water and see what people think.

Thanks for the advice, any more appreciated.


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

Just found a very good website about equipment setting up a paludarium

But I am NOT impressed with his choice of inhabitants. We can only pray his animals are still alive.


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## Vase (Jul 14, 2007)

You'd be surprised with the pumps. A lot of the smaller ones used for indoor fountains and the like can work in pretty shallow water. I thought of the vent thing as personally I wouldnt like trying to drill glass and thought it might give you other options.

How deep would the water be if it only went up to the vent?


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## axorozzas (Aug 16, 2008)

I know they can work in shallow water, I was talking about submersible filters. I'm going to use an exo terra waterfall pump, which works in down to 1cm water. 

I wasn't actually intending to drill the glass after I was told how difficult it is, but bend the tubing around the shelves. however, threading it through the vent would be much simpler.

The water depth up to the vent would be 10cm (4 inches) making the volume 2.8 gallons. With gravel in the bottom aswell, that's not much. If you look closely in the picture you can actually see the water line from when I tested it last time (needs cleaning)

Won't be much action here for a while. I've got exams monday, tuesday and wednesday next week. 
Just had an english exam which went surprisingly well, especially since I hadn't revised for it.:blush:


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## danielle101 (May 8, 2008)

Well i for 1 cant wait to see it when its finished, goodluck in ur exams...


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