# i hate foxes!!



## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

Bloody things - I lost 7 chickens last night including both of my stunning Hamburg cockerals - one gold splash and one all gold .. it also got a pure welsummer hen and a pure rhode island as well as a couple of appenzellar hens and some very pretty hybrids that i'd produced .... where's my shotgun ????


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## Elisha Metcalf (Sep 12, 2008)

its only doing whats natural! i hated foxes for years when on ekilled my rabbit when i was a child, but you know...no offence, fox has gotta eat! its the sad reality of life


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

lophius said:


> Bloody things - I lost 7 chickens last night including both of my stunning Hamburg cockerals - one gold splash and one all gold .. it also got a pure welsummer hen and a pure rhode island as well as a couple of appenzellar hens and some very pretty hybrids that i'd produced .... where's my shotgun ????


You need to secure your livestock properly.


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## alberts mamma (Jul 7, 2008)

We had ducks when i was younger and a fox got them too...I was gutted Im sorry for your loss...my dad felt the same way I still smile as I remember him chasing up the garden in just his undies trying in vane to scare the fox off. I saw her a few weeks later with her babies then I realised things happen for a reason. I may have been gutted but she got to feed her babies.


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## Kazza17 (May 29, 2008)

Elisha Metcalf said:


> its only doing whats natural! i hated foxes for years when on ekilled my rabbit when i was a child, but you know...no offence, fox has gotta eat! its the sad reality of life


Sorry but if a fox dared to eat any of my pets it dies end of


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Kazza17 said:


> Sorry but if a fox dared to eat any of my pets it dies end of


you eat food.....i guess meat so whats your point? a owl came down and ate your fluff bunny...whos faults that? not the owls!


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

How secure are your poultry? I've not lost one to a fox. Mine are shut away at night and I have secure fencing. 
Mind you I don't think a fox would be brave enough to come into my garden what with the 10 dogs.
We also have 50 rabbits aswell, not lost one to a fox at all.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

you hate foxes:2thumb:

ihave a 22|250 that foxes hate :bash:

bang..bang game over


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

woodrott said:


> you hate foxes:2thumb:
> 
> ihave a 22|250 that foxes hate :bash:
> 
> bang..bang game over


sorry i take that back

its bang game over:2thumb:


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## 11krage (Mar 9, 2008)

Foxes got a fair amount of my pets as I was growing up. A westie also got into the garden and broke the neck of one of my chickens, bare in mind I named all of them and knew all of them from at the oldest a week old and the youngest since they were laid as eggs. Had at least two chickens that died while I tried to comfort them since I knew what was going to happen, which is hard to do with a chicken.

I have never hated foxes or westies, their just doing what comes natural, no matter how much it hurts at the time. I suggest secure fencing as the way to go, and maybe a chicken dog, planning both for the next time I keep chickens. If they can't get to your chickens they'd have to go elsewhere.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry to read you lost your chickens - that's sad, but I have to say that I agree with most people on here.

You can't blame a fox for needing to eat and any animal will choose "easy pickings" over chasing prey and trying to catch it. Like others on here, I'm also wondering how secure your chickens were. I realise the fox might have come in before you locked them up for the night and caught you off-guard so to speak and you've paid the price, but please don't blame the fox - he/she has to eat too!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

As animal/livestock owners it is up to us to protect them. All our Sanctuary ones are locked up at night since a fox killed our white pheasant. It was our fault that we didnt lock it up not the foxes


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

Hi,

I had the same thing happen last week, but with one of my toulouse geese, i was absolutely guttered as it happened around 8.30 in the morning! There wasnt much more i could do to protect them in the day apart from not letting them out at all, and thats not why i keep them, i wouldnt even think of doing that. Im going to set the fox trap up, I dont actually care what anyone on here says to be honest, there all saying you have to do what you can to protect your livestock, there locked away in secure padlocked sheds until 8 am everyday and put away at 4pm at the moment due to it getting dark early. i do everything i can to protect them, so this is just the next step in protecting them im afraid.:whip:


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

farmercoope said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had the same thing happen last week, but with one of my toulouse geese, i was absolutely guttered as it happened around 8.30 in the morning! There wasnt much more i could do to protect them in the day apart from not letting them out at all, and thats not why i keep them, i wouldnt even think of doing that. Im going to set the fox trap up, I dont actually care what anyone on here says to be honest, there all saying you have to do what you can to protect your livestock, there locked away in secure padlocked sheds until 8 am everyday and put away at 4pm at the moment due to it getting dark early. i do everything i can to protect them, so this is just the next step in protecting them im afraid.:whip:


 
a fox will kill any time of the day not just at night

unless you stand over them 24..7 there not safe

if you have a fox problem then you have to sort it out your self

which is trap or shot it. no its not the foxes fault but you have to protect 

whats yours


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

woodrott said:


> a fox will kill any time of the day not just at night
> 
> unless you stand over them 24..7 there not safe
> 
> ...


Would you like to re-read my post before making a comment like that, if you read it fully and properly you will see I have put I am setting up the fox trap, now to me that answers your question already. Yes I do protect whats mine.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

If it's not the fox's fault, why are you punishing it for it? I think it's that mentality that has severely hurt wildlife all over the world. It's the same sort of mentality that has people hunting down a shark that killed a person or a tiger that took a sheep. Not right. Build higher fences.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

farmercoope said:


> Would you like to re-read my post before making a comment like that, if you read it fully and properly you will see I have put I am setting up the fox trap, now to me that answers your question already. Yes I do protect whats mine.


wow im on your side thay need to be sorted out

i do it for over 5 diffrent farms


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> If it's not the fox's fault, why are you punishing it for it? I think it's that mentality that has severely hurt wildlife all over the world. It's the same sort of mentality that has people hunting down a shark that killed a person or a tiger that took a sheep. Not right. Build higher fences.


the diffence between tigers..sharks... there not pests under the fire arms act


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't believe an animal should be considered a pest just because it is able to thrive around humans.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> I don't believe an animal should be considered a pest just because it is able to thrive around humans.


well thats not down to me thats the goverment
thay stopped fox hunting well thay tryed
now thay state shoot them its better


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It is still down to those who do it if they treat the foxes (or any other animal) as vermin. So, yes, it is still down to you.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And people like my bosses pick up the mess that people with a "gung ho" attitude of going out and shooting animals leave behind, because too many of them can't shoot properly! 

I'm not saying I'm against shooting an animal to protect your own livestock, but too many people do this that aren't experienced and they don't get a clean kill! the animal then goes off and has a long lingering dreadful death and I cannot advocate that for any animal, whether it's considered a pest, vermin or whatever!


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> It is still down to those who do it if they treat the foxes (or any other animal) as vermin. So, yes, it is still down to you.


well yes i treat them as vermin.the wording is the goverment
thats the goverments view. vermin control trap or shoot


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I lost two hens to a fox in the Summer. First time ever but it was completely my fault. Having never seen any sign of a fox in the three years I've been here I got complacent and left 2 broodies sitting under the hedge on their clutch of eggs.

I was so angry afterwards, but not with the fox, with myself. 

Foxes are opportunists. They are also wild animals, and if you hand them a meal on a plate they're going to take it!

If you have any birds left that weren't taken, make sure they are very secure tonight as the fox will undoubtedly be back. For a couple of nights after I lost mine there were fresh scratch marks on the roof of the nestbox. 

My henhouse is very secure, but my biggest worry is a daytime fox. And I may be an animal lover but I would shoot or trap in those circumstances to protect my hens.


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## woodrott (Sep 14, 2008)

vonnie said:


> I lost two hens to a fox in the Summer. First time ever but it was completely my fault. Having never seen any sign of a fox in the three years I've been here I got complacent and left 2 broodies sitting under the hedge on their clutch of eggs.
> 
> I was so angry afterwards, but not with the fox, with myself.
> 
> ...


thanks at last :2thumb:


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Was the pen not secure or something make sure always is otherwise this is what happens if not foxes.. dogs, cat ll other wildlife to can halm them.

the fox had to eat its how life cycle runs.

sorry for the loss of your chickens xx


BTW- i don't think people should act like they are vermin they are lovely animals very cute, intellegent and just amazing all over.
We had a fox have its cubs in our garden we were very nervous around her because wild animal is always unpredictable our dogs had to be supervised and made sure they didn't go on a part of garden incase she was out of her nest. also me going out for a smoke at night time i saw her glowing eyes pooed it i had to go out front.. it was nice seeing them come out of the nest little fuzzy things


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It seems to me the only animals exempt from being classed as "vermin" are those that do not thrive around humans. And an opportunistic animal can't be at blame for being able to do so.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Our birds 6 geese, numerous chickens and ducks are now in a paddock with fox proof fencing but we still do the rounds every night making sure that they are all locked up securely. As said foxes are opportunists.. I am sorry for the people who have lost birds or other animals to them but still find the fox a beautiful animal. To keep foxes away why not try putting food outside the perimiter of your garden or land this way the fox is more likely to leave livestock alone as it has a food source.This is what my friend does and it appears to work


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## PsyKoViggy (Jan 6, 2008)

i do have to ask, what makes a foxes life any less important than the life of your livestock?
becuase it isn't benefiting you personally?

a fox cannot read the 'keep out' signs, it cannot think "ah, those animals belong to someone else" .. they see a big meal in a confined space.. its like leaving a chocolate cake in a room full of children and expecting to come back a few hours later to find it untouched.

YOU put the animals in a situation where they were unable to escape a predator, YOU did not ensure your animals were safe and YOU should be the one you are angry at.

Living is a very odd crime.. especially when you give it the death sentence..

IMO..


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Well said, Viggy!!


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

:lol2:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

PsyKoViggy said:


> i do have to ask, what makes a foxes life any less important than the life of your livestock?
> becuase it isn't benefiting you personally?
> 
> a fox cannot read the 'keep out' signs, it cannot think "ah, those animals belong to someone else" .. they see a big meal in a confined space.. its like leaving a chocolate cake in a room full of children and expecting to come back a few hours later to find it untouched.
> ...


:2thumb::notworthy:

Well done. I agree totally.
If you keep poultry then it's YOUR job to keep them safe. 
If a fox could get in then you failed the birds by failing to protect them from harm.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

farmercoope said:


> :lol2:


I don't understand how any of this thread is funny... Maybe that's just me.


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## tilly790 (Jan 24, 2008)

I have lost things to foxes in the past...Idont believe in shooting anything . We get geese in our field after they shoot at week ends with broken wings & legs..they fly thousands of miles for some empty headed moron to shoot them,


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I dont find it funny either.Human beings are the cruellest living thing on the planet maybe we should start shooting them too


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> And people like my bosses pick up the mess that people with a "gung ho" attitude of going out and shooting animals leave behind, because too many of them can't shoot properly!
> 
> I'm not saying I'm against shooting an animal to protect your own livestock, but too many people do this that aren't experienced and they don't get a clean kill! the animal then goes off and has a long lingering dreadful death and I cannot advocate that for any animal, whether it's considered a pest, vermin or whatever!





tilly790 said:


> I have lost things to foxes in the past...Idont believe in shooting anything . We get geese in our field after they shoot at week ends with broken wings & legs..they fly thousands of miles for some empty headed moron to shoot them,


Exactly my point made earlier!!



Shell195 said:


> I dont find it funny either.Human beings are the cruellest living thing on the planet maybe we should start shooting them too


There certainly are a few of them out there that deserve it!! But we are supposed to be civilised - aren't we???


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## 11krage (Mar 9, 2008)

Theres been a few great books on this subject as to why we class some animals as vermin and why many people can't get past thinking 'they killed whats mine, i'll go kill them'. I'd recommend 'Man and the natural world' by keith thomas and 'animal revolution' by Richard d. Ryder. They make great eye openers as to why we class the world as we do.

I agree with most of the people on this thread, its not like foxes do this to be vindictive, its just how evolution has shaped them to be to survive. They are very adaptive, intelligent creatures, which is scaryingly similar to how you would describe the human species. 

Culling foxes should be the very last resort, i'm not even sure its an option in the first place. There are lots of other ways to protect your livestock without waging war against a species.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

lophius said:


> Bloody things - I lost 7 chickens last night including both of my stunning Hamburg cockerals - one gold splash and one all gold .. it also got a pure welsummer hen and a pure rhode island as well as a couple of appenzellar hens and some very pretty hybrids that i'd produced .... where's my shotgun ????


 I am a poultry keeper and I don't hate foxes. If a fox manages to kill my birds I regard it as my own faukt for not ensuring they are secure enough.
It's like saying that you hate car drivers if your dogs gets out on a road and gets killed by a car.
If your hamburghs are silver spangled bantams, I can fix you up with another cockerel but only if you have made your pen fox proof.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

farmercoope said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had the same thing happen last week, but with one of my toulouse geese, i was absolutely guttered as it happened around 8.30 in the morning! There wasnt much more i could do to protect them in the day apart from not letting them out at all, and thats not why i keep them, i wouldnt even think of doing that. Im going to set the fox trap up, I dont actually care what anyone on here says to be honest, there all saying you have to do what you can to protect your livestock, there locked away in secure padlocked sheds until 8 am everyday and put away at 4pm at the moment due to it getting dark early. i do everything i can to protect them, so this is just the next step in protecting them im afraid.:whip:


 They would be perfectly safe contained within electrified poultry netting.


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> They would be perfectly safe contained within electrified poultry netting.


Tell that to the fox! ha. We've tried that. But this is the first time weve lost something this year, which was killed then left. in the daytime so it was quite hard as i like to free range the geese as much as i can.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

farmercoope said:


> Tell that to the fox! ha. We've tried that. But this is the first time weve lost something this year, which was killed then left. in the daytime so it was quite hard as i like to free range the geese as much as i can.


 I used a couple of 50 metere runs of flexinetting to fornm a corral. Used the stuff for the last 20 years and never once was it breached. Ran mine off a car battery too. The ponly thing is that you have to make sure you keep the grass at the bottom cut or sprayed otherwise it shorts the whole fence out and it's useless. I have never known a predatory to breach the stuff, not on mine and not on anyone elses either.
WHen you tried it, how did it fail?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

We have electric fencing and the bottom of the Paddock backs onto a nature reserve where Mr Fox and his family live and we have never had him kill anything


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## tortz (Nov 25, 2007)

well thats not down to me thats the goverment
thay stopped fox hunting well thay tryed
now thay state shoot them its better

why should any animal be slaughterd just because its eating?? its the food chain its the circle of life. would you kill somebody for eating a cow??
humans are the worst preditors alive, its not like the fox can go to its local tesco's & pick up some chicken is it?? 
many of the worlds animals are dying out & people want to kill innocent foxes for eating. 

im sorry your chickens have died but its not the foxes fault & nither should an animal be killed just for eating!!

they have as much right to be in this world as us!!


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I used a couple of 50 metere runs of flexinetting to fornm a corral. Used the stuff for the last 20 years and never once was it breached. Ran mine off a car battery too. The ponly thing is that you have to make sure you keep the grass at the bottom cut or sprayed otherwise it shorts the whole fence out and it's useless. I have never known a predatory to breach the stuff, not on mine and not on anyone elses either.
> WHen you tried it, how did it fail?


Used it last winter, it was only the poultry netting height though so think he got over and into the shed that way. Now have heras fencing all the way around the allotments, and then around where the goats go. We also ran it off a car battery as we have no electric.


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

flipping heck _ I seem to have started something here -

There really are two issues that come out of this discussion -

1) it is our responsibility to ensure the safety of our livestock - true - the birds free roam during the day and then are locked away at night - this has worked for the last 3 years with only one fox visit which was unsuccessful. Until today.

2) I wonder how many who have responded to this post actually ever get out of their bedrooms, do anything other than sit in school and surf the interent, or ever venture out of their housing estates !!!

For those of us who live in the countryside and actually interact with farming communities, small holders or casual keepers who have more than a 'back yard', there are often many more issues to consider than the cuddly image that the lefties like to portray !!! 

Vermin is an interesting issue - I do consider foxes to be vermin, but on the whole, where I live their population is very well controlled - you have to take into consideration the eonomic impact of them on local livestock - they can be disasterous and the cost of keeping them out is astronomical. 

Interesting the comment about them doing well around humans - shows how little interraction with truly wild foxes there have been.

I am peeved that i've lost some chickens, what I am more peeved about is the fact that 5 (yes 5) of the of the chickens were just killed and left in the garden - the big cockerel had the fat at the base of his tail (parsons nose) taken off and his neck crushed, one had its head removed, the remainder of the body in tact - one had just the inards removed - I agree foxes have to eat but killing just for the sake of it is wasteful - I couldn't even feed the remaining animals to my snakes - what a bloody waste.

I see a lot of comments on here that are either ill informed or not informed at all - we're all entitled to our opinion but please add somethig of use to the discussion.

For the record I once worked in an office where a juvenile fox had adopted the local students - it was an incredible animal that lived very well on free offerings of cheese and ham sandwiches and the occasional toad - it used to sit on my office window sill and occassionally come in - it was lovely - but a completely different animal to that that's just been in my garden.

"well thats not down to me thats the goverment
thay stopped fox hunting well thay tryed
now thay state shoot them its better

why should any animal be slaughterd just because its eating?? its the food chain its the circle of life. would you kill somebody for eating a cow??
humans are the worst preditors alive, its not like the fox can go to its local tesco's & pick up some chicken is it?? 
many of the worlds animals are dying out & people want to kill innocent foxes for eating. 

im sorry your chickens have died but its not the foxes fault & nither should an animal be killed just for eating!!

they have as much right to be in this world as us!! "

Good lord - what a pile of bolderdash - shall we have leopards and wolves eating cows and horses ? - Do you not udnerstand the fact that Humans have irrocovably changed the natural environment - it is therefore down to us to manage and steward in a responsible manner - and that may mean controlling populations of certain animals .. I wonder do you have the same feelings for mosquitos, tetse flies, mites, ticks and certain viruses?


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

thank you for the offer of the bantams - our Hamburgs were big - the big cockerel was a gold splash - and weighed about 11lb - fortunately we have another breeder near by so I'll see if i can get a spare cockerel in the new year.


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

lophius said:


> flipping heck _ I seem to have started something here -
> 
> There really are two issues that come out of this discussion -
> 
> ...


mossies kill millions of people each year....foxes dont.


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

foxes kill thousands upon thousands of chickens, quail, pheasants and pigeons - its about priorities -

stupid reply !


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Quote by OP
Good lord - what a pile of bolderdash - shall we have leopards and wolves eating cows and horses ? - Do you not udnerstand the fact that Humans have irrocovably changed the natural environment - it is therefore down to us to manage and steward in a responsible manner - and that may mean controlling populations of certain animals .. I wonder do you have the same feelings for mosquitos, tetse flies, mites, ticks and certain viruses?

Sorry I didnt know we had native wolves and leopards roaming Britain. My friend whos farm contains The sanctuary has 4 acres and as said before we have an electrified paddock or 3.It backs onto a nature reserve where foxes live and is surrounded by farmland.We only lost a white pheasant as it wasnt locked up as it was so timid. The foxes have never been into the chickens ducks or geese. She is country born and bred and if she notices foxes are about she feeds them beyond the perimeter this saves them trying to get the birds.She doesnt hate foxes either. Please dont presume we all know nothing about countrylife


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

lophius said:


> foxes kill thousands upon thousands of chickens, quail, pheasants and pigeons - its about priorities -
> 
> stupid reply !


yeah stupid reply...killing birds or millions of people that die of malaria from mossies

guess you like wearing red, sitting on a house and chasing a animal with a pack of dogs

not saying i like foxes, but if you keep wildfowl/birds etc then you have to protect them


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

lophius said:


> 2) I wonder how many who have responded to this post actually ever get out of their bedrooms, do anything other than sit in school and surf the interent, or ever venture out of their housing estates !!!





lophius said:


> For those of us who live in the countryside and actually interact with farming communities, small holders or casual keepers who have more than a 'back yard', there are often many more issues to consider than the cuddly image that the lefties like to portray !!! ?


Well I get out of my bedroom lots – I don’t go to school and I regularly venture out of my housing estate. I have been around farms for 40 years and come across animals killed by foxes during that time.

I now work at a wildlife sanctuary out in the country, we have loads of water fowl, chickens and a few turkeys and only once in the 4 years that I have worked there has a fox attacked of our turkeys, which fortunately got away. They are locked up at night, but this fox came in during the daytime. It sometimes happens and you have to be prepared for that!




lophius said:


> I am peeved that i've lost some chickens, what I am more peeved about is the fact that 5 (yes 5) of the of the chickens were just killed and left in the garden - the big cockerel had the fat at the base of his tail (parsons nose) taken off and his neck crushed, one had its head removed, the remainder of the body in tact - one had just the inards removed - I agree foxes have to eat but killing just for the sake of it is wasteful - I couldn't even feed the remaining animals to my snakes - what a bloody waste. ?


If you knew about the countryside and wild animals you would know that foxes cache food away for lean times. When they kill more than they can eat, it’s so that they can bury it. If 5 of your chickens were killed and left, then the fox would be coming back to get them. They don’t kill for the sake of it, they kill to survive.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Actually, my house backs onto a very large farming area (including a huge chicken pen). The chickens that live there are well cared for and are kind of considered to belong to the neighborhood, even though their actual owner is there more often than not. Since he has taken over their care from the previous owner, there hasn't been a single death by foxes. He is careful with his poultry. Before he took over, yes there was a problem... But some modifications to the care of the birds fixed it... Not going out and killing any fox in the area.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Humans are the biggest vermin of all!!!

I have posted on this topic a few times on this forum before. You are the one to blame for the loss of your chickens, not the fox!

The reason a fox will kill a few chickens, but do not take all the ones it has killed, is because the commotion from the chickens normally alerts farmer Giles to come & investigate. This disturbs the fox. If the fox was not disturbed, it would take one dead chicken at a time, bury it somewhere & save it for leaner times. It would do this with each bird it had killed. But as it is disturbed, it appears the fox has killed many animals & only taken one. This is where the twaddle "foxes kill for fun" comes from! Of course, only one animal kills for fun - humans!


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

"guess you like wearing red, sitting on a house and chasing a animal with a pack of dogs"

Nope - actually think that chasing foxes to exhaustion and then letting dogs kill them is barbaric ! (much the same as badger baiting, cock fighting and dog fighting before you ask)

But .... I have no objection to proper humane control though --

And in previous posts - others had stated that foxes have as much right to be here as humans - contradiction on the whole mosquito / fox issue - 

still a stupid comparison - there can be no comparison - its a ridiculous argument - don't you agree? and its not the mosquitos that kill people - its the plasmodium.


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

feorog -

sorry that I have offended you - I think that I responded to your post (at the top of page 2) regarding security of the birds ! -

i would have though following your first response that you would have been quite confident in your contribution ! without the need to justify.

the only part of your second post that really needs comment is that regarding the final paragraph - indeed - no probs with them burying food for a later date - such a bloody waste to leave them round the garden unburied, un eaten and useless for anything else !!! 

I don't know about you but I develop an emotional attachment to the animals that I keep and so finding what can be described as 'bloody minded murder' - to use the kind of parlance that may be used by many on this forum - slightly upsetting 

regardless of the fox being the good guy, bad guy or just doing his job.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

You haven't offended me - what I said about bedrooms and schools was said tongue in cheek - I just forgot to add the LOL at the end!!

I do understand what it's like to discover a load of dead chickens and I know it's hard, but it's like I said, you can't *really* blame the fox.

Not knowing what the circumstances were about what happened, (i.e. was it day or night) I wasn't prepared to blame you totally for not keeping them safe, just pointing out the fox's point of view.

However, I stand by what I said, if there were 5 chickens left, he/she intended to come back for them, but was obviously disturbed.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

feorag said:


> You haven't offended me - what I said about bedrooms and schools was said tongue in cheek - I just forgot to add the LOL at the end!!
> 
> I do understand what it's like to discover a load of dead chickens and I know it's hard, but it's like I said, you can't *really* blame the fox.
> 
> ...


:2thumb:


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

amalthea -

I don't really see what value you have added to this post - i'm struggling to see the real interaction if the chickens at the bottom of your garden are 'sort of owned by the neighbourhood' - I do apologise in advance if you (and the wider community) contribute to purchase and selection, rearing and reproduction, feeding and culling of the chickens - which is sounds to me as though you dont - sounds as though they actually have a real owner. Believe me when you take an egg, turn it 4 times a day for 21 days, maintain humidity and temperature to provide optimal hatching conditions, rear in a brooder, nurture and release into the flock (notwithstanding the fact that the bird in hand is a perfect example of the breed), keep in pristine health for 3 years and then lose - to find just its tail bitten off --- you may feel different then !


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

lophius said:


> amalthea -
> 
> I don't really see what value you have added to this post - i'm struggling to see the real interaction if the chickens at the bottom of your garden are 'sort of owned by the neighbourhood' - I do apologise in advance if you (and the wider community) contribute to purchase and selection, rearing and reproduction, feeding and culling of the chickens - which is sounds to me as though you dont - sounds as though they actually have a real owner. Believe me when you take an egg, turn it 4 times a day for 21 days, maintain humidity and temperature to provide optimal hatching conditions, rear in a brooder, nurture and release into the flock (notwithstanding the fact that the bird in hand is a perfect example of the breed), keep in pristine health for 3 years and then lose - to find just its tail bitten off --- you may feel different then !


if someone was going to that trouble, then surely they would totally bullet fox proof the run etc.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I agree with the thread owner and the farmer guy. These amazing "electric" fences are rubbish. We had them around all of our pens and they were all checked 3 or 4 times a day yet the fox still got the chickens. People use them for horses but iv seen horses lie down and go under them. So how many of you would be devestated when you can no longer get hold of chicken, goose, your xmas turkey or eggs because the cute cuddly foxy decided to munch them?????????
These creatures are vermin and i can see it becoming like the dingos in Australia. All it will take is for the "opportunists" to attack a baby and that will be it. Bang bang little foxes we hate you now.


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

"if someone was going to that trouble, then surely they would totally bullet fox proof the run etc"

Touchet !!! - but no - was trying to get across the point about emotional attachment and loss - A stupid comment I think based on the subject matter


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

lophius said:


> "if someone was going to that trouble, then surely they would totally bullet fox proof the run etc"
> 
> Touchet !!! - but no - was trying to get across the point about emotional attachment and loss - A stupid comment I think based on the subject matter


i know mistakes happen....and hopefully for them it wont happen again, and i would be said and heartbroken if that happened to me, but i still couldnt blame the fox or want it dead


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

lophius said:


> amalthea -
> 
> I don't really see what value you have added to this post - i'm struggling to see the real interaction if the chickens at the bottom of your garden are 'sort of owned by the neighbourhood' - I do apologise in advance if you (and the wider community) contribute to purchase and selection, rearing and reproduction, feeding and culling of the chickens - which is sounds to me as though you dont - sounds as though they actually have a real owner. Believe me when you take an egg, turn it 4 times a day for 21 days, maintain humidity and temperature to provide optimal hatching conditions, rear in a brooder, nurture and release into the flock (notwithstanding the fact that the bird in hand is a perfect example of the breed), keep in pristine health for 3 years and then lose - to find just its tail bitten off --- you may feel different then !


No, they aren't MY chickens, but yes I was upset when they belonged to the previous owner and the entire flock was killed by a fox. I am not a heartless person. I go out, interact with the chickens (and had done with the ones that were killed before the incident), so of course I got attached! So what makes me different from you? Yes I feed the chickens and helped mend fences and such. They do not belong to me, so no, I don't cull them, but I have helped raise chicks, as well.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

selina20 said:


> I agree with the thread owner and the farmer guy. These amazing "electric" fences are rubbish. We had them around all of our pens and they were all checked 3 or 4 times a day yet the fox still got the chickens. People use them for horses but iv seen horses lie down and go under them. So how many of you would be devestated when you can no longer get hold of chicken, goose, your xmas turkey or eggs because the cute cuddly foxy decided to munch them?????????
> These creatures are vermin and i can see it becoming like the dingos in Australia. All it will take is for the "opportunists" to attack a baby and that will be it. Bang bang little foxes we hate you now.


Oh come on! That is quite ridiculous!

If a badger got into your chicken pen & killed some of your chickens, would you want it dead? Or what if one of your dogs did the same? Would you have your dog put to sleep?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Oh come on! That is quite ridiculous!
> 
> If a badger got into your chicken pen & killed some of your chickens, would you want it dead? Or what if one of your dogs did the same? Would you have your dog put to sleep?


I would openly shoot a badger and none of my dogs would do that as they are trained lols. If the dogs did then i would have to get rid of it but i cannot see my lazy dalmation who is scared of rabbits going after chickens. I have had dogs attack sheep in the past and have had to get rid of it. After all this is our business.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You can't completely train instinct out of a dog... Not possible.


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> You can't completely train instinct out of a dog... Not possible.


 
Hence y farmers shoot dogs that go after their livestock


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I don't think this is a simple hate foxes or love foxes issue.

My hens are not livestock. They are pets, with names and personalities. They are secure at night but I am not prepared to have them confined during the day. They have the run of the garden.

If, as happened before, I lost them at night due to my own stupidity, then I would blame myself and take every possible action to make sure it did not happen again.

But more and more fox attacks are happening during the day. And given the choice of locking my hens in the run indefinitely or taking action to remove the fox I would choose the later.

I have a duty of care to my animals. I am not a fox hater. Quite the oposite in fact. But if I have to choose between the survival of two animals, I choose my animals.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Foxes are not vermin.......that is a term derived by humans to apply to an animal that is considered a pest, and is only applied to an animal in relation to its interaction with humans. 
Was the Red fox (Vulpes vulpes) considered vermin 5 million years ago.....no it wasn't. It was only deemed vermin when humans started to farm poultry etc....within what is the foxes terrortory.

So, I believe, from rural Cornwall, that if you keep any animal with natural predators it is your responsibility to protect them from harm.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

vonnie said:


> I don't think this is a simple hate foxes or love foxes issue.
> 
> My hens are not livestock. They are pets, with names and personalities. They are secure at night but I am not prepared to have them confined during the day. They have the run of the garden.
> 
> ...


Could you not make your chickens a big outdoor pen for the day time?


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## enola69 (Aug 27, 2008)

I have owned and looked after chickens for about 3 years now. I have hatched my own so get quite attached to them. Mine are on an allotment near my house and the site has quite alot of bother with foxes as they have a den near the railway lines that runs along side the allotments. 

To fox proof my chicken area it has a 6 foot high chicken wire fence, I have dug part of this into the ground. The chickens live in there in a little shed. A fox has never got in. 

Lots of people on the allotment have lost chickens but I have only ever lost one. It was a young bird that I hatched and I had not clipped its wings. It had gotten onto a rabbit hutch in the chicken run they lay their eggs in and then onto to the shed and had flown out. I found a pile of feathers. 

I was angry with the fox at first but then more angry at myself as it was my fault for not making sure everyone was in and for not clipping its wings sooner!

About a week or so after that one of the guys from the railway told me the fox had cubs, I didnt feel angry after that as my poor chicken had helped to raise a family. 

Whether you think they are vermin or not they are beautiful animals and just like us they have to eat to survive. It is us that has encroached on their terriotry, I think sometimes we forget this.


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## FROPIG2009 (Mar 5, 2009)

Ive got chickens and a fox 8 1 of mine its sad but the fox has gotta live!!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Elisha Metcalf said:


> its only doing whats natural! i hated foxes for years when on ekilled my rabbit when i was a child, but you know...no offence, fox has gotta eat! its the sad reality of life


:notworthy::notworthy:
Instead of blameing somebody else blame the person responsible - YOU! It is YOUR responsibility to keep them safe. Don't jump on me and tell me its almost impossible/foxes will do anything for food and the like, really it just means "I don't want to pay out to get strong, quality housing for my birds" .


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

LoveForLizards said:


> :notworthy::notworthy:
> Instead of blameing somebody else blame the person responsible - YOU! It is YOUR responsibility to keep them safe. Don't jump on me and tell me its almost impossible/foxes will do anything for food and the like, really it just means "I don't want to pay out to get strong, quality housing for my birds" .


 
So very True.
In keeping any animal in a captive enviroment, You as the 'owner' are responsible for that Captive animals welfare and safty.
I am not in any way a Townie. I have been brought up in Farming, went to Myerscough in Preston, worked as a farmhand for many years in my 'Youth' lol 
I breed poultry, some of which ain't cheap, and not only are they not cheap to buy but also really quite rare. So we make dam sure that they are protected and safe.

We saw a Perrie Falcon in the garden last year, but we have soft msh tops on our growers pens and keep broody hens with clutches in broody pens to keep them safe while sitting prone. 
I sat in the bedroom watching for a while as it was just too stunning not to. However since as I had been sorting out my meat delivery, he flew down when he spied it, grabbed a nice chunk of lamb and flew off happy, and I was happy that I was able to provide him a meal.

We have never had a Fox anywhere near thankfully, we have our laying flock as freerange and they do make trips in to nextdoors garden, mainly cause he feeds them lol so they had found that if they went under the shed and through a gap and jog up his garden to his lawn and shout outside his Conservatory. I didn't know the little madams where doing this till I spotted one popping under the shed and then appear in his garden.
All blocked up now but nextdoor said they were always at it lol and he didn't mind at all. 

I'm a farmer, thats what I am, but we take a lot of expense to protect our birds and keep them healthy and safe. If I wasn't prepared to do this, then what would be the point. 
Prevention is always better than the 'Cure'.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

tilly790 said:


> I have lost things to foxes in the past...Idont believe in shooting anything . We get geese in our field after they shoot at week ends with broken wings & legs..they fly thousands of miles for some empty headed moron to shoot them,


were not empty headed Morons sadly its the minority that makes the rest of us look bad and people cant look past them, bloody makes me mad that people will just look at the bad side, its like just looking at all the bad rabbit, dog, chicken whatever owners and not looking at the good, I take pride in my in my hunting/shooting/lamping and when I did ferreting and to have some uniformed person call me an empty headed moron it really gets my back up! 



selina20 said:


> I would openly shoot a badger and none of my dogs would do that as they are trained lols. If the dogs did then i would have to get rid of it but i cannot see my lazy dalmation who is scared of rabbits going after chickens. I have had dogs attack sheep in the past and have had to get rid of it. After all this is our business.


Totally agree, I wouldnt get rid of my dog though if it killed a chicken, but livestock it would be rehomed away from our lifestyle to someone who unerstood near livestock it must be on a lead.



Amalthea said:


> You can't completely train instinct out of a dog... Not possible.


False..I have 6 Working Labradors two in training a black lab Bitch called Sophy and a Choc Dog called Nucks, the other night after I had locked the chickens away and fed and watered my rabbits and locked the shed up, I let ty (retired shooting dog) and woodie (curent beating/picking up dog) out while I cleaned there kennles, locked them up did Maggies no problems, then let Sophy out, now sophy is only in the basics of training and I saw her running over to the pond and started to chase something, before I had chance to grab her she had got one of my rabbits and was bringing it back to me, sadly she was to rough with it (shes only young) and I had to dispatch sad rabbit, now I know its not her fault it was all mine, sad rabbit had somehow slipped by me when I locked up (it was dark) but I had THREE fully trained labs out in the garden and they hadnt bothered it, so yes you can train them to they dont chase or even bother with things you dont want them to. Sophy didnt want to kill the rabbit she was retiving it to me but was a bit rough in her mouthing but shes young and lots to learn.

Nucks doesnt bother any thing I can let him out with the chickens and he just sits and watches them by my side:lol2:


Lophius (take it it is Carl?) really sorry hun that you lost your chickens, I was gutted when a fox chewwed through the mesh of my hen house, and then got into my shed and killed my Gold Dutch that I had raised from eggs, its devasting!

Clare

_sits back and waits to be jumped on_ :whistling2:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

bosshogg said:


> were not empty headed Morons sadly its the minority that makes the rest of us look bad and people cant look past them, bloody makes me mad that people will just look at the bad side, its like just looking at all the bad rabbit, dog, chicken whatever owners and not looking at the good, I take pride in my in my hunting/shooting/lamping and when I did ferreting and to have some uniformed person call me an empty headed moron it really gets my back up!


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::no1:

Whilst I don't agree you can take the instinct out of a dog (and instinct is inset, its NOT a 'behaviour') I do think you can train a dog to not always act off of instinct. (ie. with a terrier and rats, some people have working terriers that happily sit by and watch other terriers at work catching rats, but the dogs are trained to leave it when they are told). : victory:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> False..I have 6 Working Labradors two in training a black lab Bitch called Sophy and a Choc Dog called Nucks, the other night after I had locked the chickens away and fed and watered my rabbits and locked the shed up, I let ty (retired shooting dog) and woodie (curent beating/picking up dog) out while I cleaned there kennles, locked them up did Maggies no problems, then let Sophy out, now sophy is only in the basics of training and I saw her running over to the pond and started to chase something, before I had chance to grab her she had got one of my rabbits and was bringing it back to me, sadly she was to rough with it (shes only young) and I had to dispatch sad rabbit, now I know its not her fault it was all mine, sad rabbit had somehow slipped by me when I locked up (it was dark) but I had THREE fully trained labs out in the garden and they hadnt bothered it, so yes you can train them to they dont chase or even bother with things you dont want them to. Sophy didnt want to kill the rabbit she was retiving it to me but was a bit rough in her mouthing but shes young and lots to learn.
> 
> Nucks doesnt bother any thing I can let him out with the chickens and he just sits and watches them by my side:lol2:


I do believe you can train dogs to ignore their instincts  I just don't think you can train the instinct out completely. Does that make sense? I mean, anything can trigger them and instinct can take over. 

For example, growing up, I had a wolf hybrid that was the best dog I have ever met in my life. Everybody says you can't trust them, but he was fantastic. He snuggled with the cats (one of them regularly climbed on top of him and softened his belly til it was just right and curled up to sleep), groomed any of our small furries, listened to everything you asked of him, stayed with my little brother and me, etc etc etc. One day, Ben (brother) and I took him to a field to run and play. He ran into tall weeds to where we couldn't see him, but when we got to him, he'd caught a rabbit and was happily licking his catch. Even though, he was completely fine with OUR rabbits who had free roam of the house. He must have seen the rabbit running away from him and instinct took over.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> I do believe you can train dogs to ignore their instincts  I just don't think you can train the instinct out completely. Does that make sense? I mean, anything can trigger them and instinct can take over.
> 
> For example, growing up, I had a wolf hybrid that was the best dog I have ever met in my life. Everybody says you can't trust them, but he was fantastic. He snuggled with the cats (one of them regularly climbed on top of him and softened his belly til it was just right and curled up to sleep), groomed any of our small furries, listened to everything you asked of him, stayed with my little brother and me, etc etc etc. One day, Ben (brother) and I took him to a field to run and play. He ran into tall weeds to where we couldn't see him, but when we got to him, he'd caught a rabbit and was happily licking his catch. Even though, he was completely fine with OUR rabbits who had free roam of the house. He must have seen the rabbit running away from him and instinct took over.


I think that explained it way better then I did :lol2:


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

> 2) I wonder how many who have responded to this post actually ever get out of their bedrooms, do anything other than sit in school and surf the interent, or ever venture out of their housing estates !!!


So we're not allowed to comment if we live on housing estates, watch tv and surf the internet? 

I may not be a farmer or keep livestock. I may live on a housing estate. I may be stuck indoors a lot of the time (not much option right now). That doesn't stop me being allowed an opinion on this matter. I've spent a fair amount of time on farms, worked on farms and have family who are farmers. I understand the devastation that losing significant numbers of valued/valuable livestock can wreak and the anger at the fox for causing it. I've lost pets to foxes and understand the heartache that causes too. But I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I live on a housing estate and spend a lot of time indoors looking at a screen.


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## Mustela (Dec 21, 2007)

It's a shame that you lost your chickens, I feel for you.. really I do.

However, to prevent this happening again you really should secure your birds properly. Foxes are smart, extremely smart, and if they smell a free meal they will do all in their power to get at it. It's not too fair to blame the foxes for doing what is only natural to them.

One of my ferrets got out once, and broke into a rabbit hutch. Killed two of my bunnies. While I was upset at the loss of my rabbits, I accept that it was my own fault, for lack of care in ensuring the cage was thouroughly secure. I wouldnt want to shoot my ferret for behaving as comes naturally.

It's life, and it's your responsibility as an animal keeper to ensure that your livestock are secure and safe from predators.


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## Karl_1989 (Jan 19, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> I don't believe an animal should be considered a pest just because it is able to thrive around humans.



Would you like rats in your house?
Many people get it twisted when it comes to killing pests but at the end of the day, If theres no one out there shooting things like rabbits eating farmers crops withing a couple of years there will be no more corn flakes for you!


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## Mustela (Dec 21, 2007)

Karl_1989 said:


> Would you like rats in your house?
> Many people get it twisted when it comes to killing pests but at the end of the day, If theres no one out there shooting things like rabbits eating farmers crops withing a couple of years there will be no more corn flakes for you!


 
Prefer Rice Krispies myself :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

> Would you like rats in your house?


Yes please lol.

No seriously now. If you get rats in your house (eg wild ones, not the pet kind lol), then that means you've attracted them.

Eg. we had an opportunistic mouse a couple of years back. Turned out me keeping sacks of rat/rabbit food on the floor had attracted them. Now I've blocked off any places mice can get in, and taken away their food source, we dont have a mouse any more.

Same goes for foxes. And yep, I'm in a housing estate in a town, but was raised in the country and had chickens for several years of my childhood, but never once had a fox problem. My mam blamed missing chickens on a fox sometimes, but we usually had chicken for tea the same night :lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

If I had rats (other than my pet ones) in my house, again, it's my fault. I would find what attracted them, cut off their entry, and that would be that. It's still not their fault that they are able to thrive around people.


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## Karl_1989 (Jan 19, 2007)

May i just ask how are people attracting rats? lol

I want some target practise...


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

Rats? Pshaw....try a squirrel invasion....thought somebody had burgled our house and had a food fight in the kitchen, the destructive little bastards!


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## Karl_1989 (Jan 19, 2007)

ipsilon said:


> Rats? Pshaw....try a squirrel invasion....thought somebody had burgled our house and had a food fight in the kitchen, the destructive little bastards!


:lol2:I cant wait till the squizzels come out to play :whistling2:


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## ipsilon (Oct 27, 2007)

Karl_1989 said:


> :lol2:I cant wait till the squizzels come out to play :whistling2:



I'm so glad I don't live there any more - there was a tree next to our kitchen and my flatmate left the window open and went out. When I came back it/they had got into the cupboards and there were just destroyed cereal boxes, bags of pasta and rice and cous cous scattered all over the floor, the bread had a huge hole chewed through the middle....the chaos was just indescribable.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Karl_1989 said:


> May i just ask how are people attracting rats? lol
> 
> I want some target practise...


Rubbish, unsecure feed bins, not filling in holes where they're getting in...


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> Rubbish, unsecure feed bins, not filling in holes where they're getting in...


 
Then you'll get people reporting you for atracting rats and get ordered to clean it all up.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Karl_1989 said:


> If theres no one out there shooting things like rabbits eating farmers crops withing a couple of years there will be no more corn flakes for you!


Stop killing fox's.Then fox's eat the rabbits.Then you still get your corn flakes:whistling2:.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

gazz said:


> Stop killing fox's.Then fox's eat the rabbits.Then you still get your corn flakes:whistling2:.


:lol2: wned8:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

I've got a fox that comes to my garden pretty much every night.To see if today is the day he/she gets chicken.My pen is aviery style with a door to grass pen(This is where the fox could get dinner).I know he's there but would dream of getting rid in any way shape of form.If he/she cort me out i'd be guttet but i'd just put there remaining eggs in the incubator then there's no problem.That why IMO if you have hens always have a cockrel with them = fertile eggs so your not spending money on more birds if fox out smarts you.There are also rats/mice around my area i just set the snap trap but i don't just throw them away.I put the bodys out on the lawn at night guess who takes them away for me yep foxy.He/she gets fed also with foxy getting some food it's makes it less likly foxy will show intrest in my chickens.


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## XstephanieXkX (Nov 14, 2008)

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people shoot foxes when all they are doin is trying to fend for themselves and possibly their little cubs.
I'm really sorry that you lost your chickens but unless there in a totally secure pen then that is what's going to happen! 
Its the circle of live to survive they need to eat! 

i watched that programme about the foxes on channel four ages ago and was in tears by the end of it fair enough be gutted for the loss of your animal and sort out your pen to ensure it never happens again but why kill another animal which is just trying to eat so that it and its family can survive! 

xx


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