# Ha ha ha ha



## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

My sub 5" Dovii have spawned while I was away at work......

Smallest I have ever seen lay eggs and have been advised numerous times that they were too small :whistling2: and that it was aggression because I am not keeping them right. My argument of breeding behaviour was WIDELY shot down.

Not looking to dig up old threads or point fingers, I am unsure if they are fertile but judging on the way the female is being with the male I would say they are not as she is chasing him away.

Will see.....


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

you going to let them continue and hatch then?
congrats


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Cool, will look forward to pics of the parents and fry complete with ruler and RFUK logo in the picture. We would'nt want anyone to look sillier than before now, would we. 

Post them on the PFK forum too, if you're man enough, that is.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Mynki said:


> Cool, will look forward to pics of the parents and fry complete with ruler and RFUK logo in the picture. We would'nt want anyone to look sillier than before now, would we.
> 
> Post them on the PFK forum too, if you're man enough, that is.


i don't get it :/


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> i don't get it :/


He continually said that they are too small to breed and that I dont know what I am doing with them...

The female started to chase the male and display, I said that it was weird that they were so small yet they appear to be courting each other in there usual aggressive way.

I was then TORN APART saying I am wrong and that the fish were too small. Even sending links to try and discourage everything I said....

Funny that i was right.

Was never looking for an argument but was sick of him trying to prove that he knew everything.......

Oooooooooops


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

well congrats..
i do want pics 'cos i don't even know what these look like 
i think if they want to breed, let 'em


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Cant help it if there not gonna swim near the front of the tank, but anyone with half a brain cell can see they're not much past 4"

You want a picture of me smiling as well in the picture?

LAUGH OUT LOUD MWAH HA HA HA HA


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

hehe... a smile would help 
they look like similar to brown acaras


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> well congrats..
> i do want pics 'cos i don't even know what these look like
> i think if they want to breed, let 'em


Exactly.

I dont think that the eggs are fertile as the female is hounding the male to get away which in my experience normally means that he has not done his job.

Not always the case but my Jags and Mota used to do that when it was just the female that laid.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Google Image Result for http://www.aquariumlife.net/profile-images/wolf-cichlid.jpg

Thats a male that I just found on google search. Like an Acara on angry steroids..... :lol2:


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> He continually said that they are too small to breed and that I dont know what I am doing with them...


Caribe hunny, I know you're not the most intellectually gifted individual, but they have not successfully bred. As per link to a respected cichlid keeper. You don't have viable fry which is what I asked for pics of. You conveniently missed the point here. :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Even by your own admission, you don't thik they're fertile! :whistling2:



caribe said:


> The female started to chase the male and display, I said that it was weird that they were so small yet they appear to be courting each other in there usual aggressive way.


Interesting, mature *cichlid* parents that can reproduce are renowned for their excellent care.....



caribe said:


> I was then TORN APART saying I am wrong and that the fish were too small. .


Without viable fry and credible pictures, as well as posting on the PFK forum as it's frequented by people who know what they are talking about you have not proved anything. You're still wrong! You have to include an RFUK logo i the pic too. 



caribe said:


> Even sending links to try and discourage everything I said.....


Do the above and you'll be correct. I'm sure serious fishkeepers the world over will be interested in this. If it happens, and as yet we have no proof that you have viable fry. 




caribe said:


> Funny that i was right.


Not yet. :lol2:




caribe said:


> Was never looking for an argument but was sick of him trying to prove that he knew everything.......
> 
> Oooooooooops


 I know that I don't know everything. The question is, do you know anything.... :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

^that last rhetorical question made me lol


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> ^that last rhetorical question made me lol


He makes me cry........

His fishes behaviour could be similar to when he gets to kiss a girl for the first time. A bit of sticky fumbling doesn't make people sexually mature... Or even emotionally for that matter!

But if I'm wrong Caribe, you need to record everything properly as you'll have the opportunity to educate numerous world renowned cichlid experts.....

For those that don't know, Mary Bailey is a very famous cichlid expert. Her comments as well as those of many others contradict Caribes. Such as this here :-

The 10 biggest cichlids | Features | Practical Fishkeeping


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

just looked at that..
the pic of the snook are amazing.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> He makes me cry........
> 
> His fishes behaviour could be similar to when he gets to kiss a girl for the first time. A bit of sticky fumbling doesn't make people sexually mature... Or even emotionally for that matter!
> 
> ...



I HAVE SAID LIKE 3 TIMES THAT I DONT THINK THERE FERTILE, AND THAT LAYING DOES NOT MAKE THEM FRY...

Show me anywhere in the post that said that oh I have fry swimming around. I have said that the female has laid eggs... thats it.
"
The best way to get a pair is to start with half a dozen youngsters, unless you come across a second-hand adult pair. .........They start to breed at 30cm/12" plus,........ so it is quite feasible without needing a swimming pool of a tank."

That is from your PFK posting........

A fish that is laying now "COULD" produce fry. I am not saying that these will hatch, infact I have said that they probably wont. My point is you continuing to say that I am wrong. I will send another picture with the logo now.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

There ya go :lol2:


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh and what your doing is nit picking on words that I have used.

Because I used the word "breed" rather than "lay" you know fine well what I was meaning considering i finished it with they wont be fertile.....

But what you try and do is make it sound like I am stupid by laying into me personally.

I dont do that to you, I could but I dont...

My point is you said that they wouldnt be able to lay at the size they are, cause to now your own admittance, you get your info from reading other things from the holy grail that is the PFK ..... Funny that you respect all they do,,,,,, they interviewed me about 6 years ago ......... so they must know something!


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Nice one Caribe! I feel very VERY especially pleased for you 

Nice happy looking fish, they are obviously happy and relaxed fish if they are confident to even consider spawning yet 

--- didnt see the second page!!

I would love to say dont rise to the bait (haha) Caribe, i have didnt bother responding to the last digs, i didnt even feel theurge to which i normally dowhen wound up, lol.

But digs or not aside,

Mynki, no doubt you are a knowledgeable person but oh my god, you are an arrogant, irritating, unhelpful and very boring member of the fish forum.

You have successfully managed to put down everyone who...well... isnt you.... im sure there is something wrong with you.... complete narcissist.



> The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness.


 (Wikipedia)

I have every respect for your knowledge if you actually bothered using it to help other people, not constantly critisize them.

You need to change or just go away.


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Some cichlids can breed at remarkably young ages and at a small size i had a succesful spawning and hatching from a pair of A .Rivulatus (Green Terrors) back in the early nineties ,they were two and a half inches long each!
I have also had convicts spawn at less than 1 inch long and raise fry.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> Oh and what your doing is nit picking on words that I have used.
> 
> Because I used the word "breed" rather than "lay" you know fine well what I was meaning considering i finished it with they wont be fertile.....
> 
> ...


PFK isn't the holy grail! lol

The people who have written articles for them for the last few decades have proven experience and knowledge. Thats not the same thing. 

You should be able to tell yourself if the eggs are fertile or not by now just by looking at them. 

And I'm not changing words but you are. Remember the discussion started on a thread deleted after your foul language and by PM. Are you going topost on PFK? Or don't you dare? try seriouslyfish.com instead.

Moogloo - You were giving poor advise. You were asked if the LFS you work in did this because it puts profit over welfare. As you didn't reply, I can only assume you do. 

If you're unhappy with that prove that these crappy little ornaments / tubs can support the fish you say they can by posting water parameter results over 6 to 12 months at the stocking levels accepted for the fish you specify. You might be taken seriously then. Thats not a dig as you suggest, I just prefer hard facts to hearsay, especially when it's from someone who clearly should know better given their career!


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Graylord said:


> I have also had convicts spawn at less than 1 inch long and raise fry.


Me too. 

Funnily enough this is one species I'd like to keep again if I can get hold of some F0 fish. The fish in the industry these days are too washed out and drab for me. I may have to contact Jeff Rapps at some point.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

What the hell you talking about? Do I post on PFK if I dare!!!! Am I speaking another language or something. I might be Scottish but I'm not an idiot. 

Are there pictures of the male and the female = yes
Are there pictures with a ruler = yes
Are there pictures of the rfuk logo = yes
Are there pictures of eggs = yes

So what do I have to prove exactly? To me it sounds like you are trying to dig yourself out of a we hole that YOU put yourself in. 

If you get your knowledge from articles saying these fish will breed at 12" and then have trouble believing it when its not true, then I think you should stop looking at the Internet. 

I also HAD no doubt that you have excellent knowledge on fish but after this I am starting to believe that you are a copy and paste expert. I got my knowledge from research and keeping the species both in the shop and at home and it's worked out fine for me. 

People will always disagree on the Internet, that's the life of a forum. But atleast man up and say that you got it wrong in this instance. 

You always try and put me down for what I say, even though you never actually say why it's wrong, just you don't agree. Normally when someone posts that they will come back with the correct answer.... But u don't. 

PLEASE no more arguments!!!


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> Me too.
> 
> Funnily enough this is one species I'd like to keep again if I can get hold of some F0 fish. The fish in the industry these days are too washed out and drab for me. I may have to contact Jeff Rapps at some point.


In previous posts you also bad mouthed him as well .....


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> In previous posts you also bad mouthed him as well .....


No I didn't. 

This storytelling is getting worse...... :lol2:


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> What the hell you talking about? Do I post on PFK if I dare!!!! Am I speaking another language or something. I might be Scottish but I'm not an idiot.
> 
> Are there pictures of the male and the female = yes
> Are there pictures with a ruler = yes
> ...


When you say fish have bred, it means they've successfully reproduced with viable young. Yours have not yet. I notice you've ignored my "you should be able to tell by now comment as to their fertility". 

So I'm not wrong. You're trying to make an argument that doesn't exist. 

You take everything personally, but you're facts on keeping dovii are wrong. You quote small sizes. Tiny sizes that are only achieved because people don't have the proper tanks or trop ponds to allow them to achieve the sizes they do.

Your bad for fishkeeping in general. If I didn't link to respected resources then it would be a you vs i disagreement. So saying I'm a copy and paste expert only highlights your own inability to back up what you're saying. Whereas I can. I realise you must feel an idiot, but do more research, caqre for your fishproperly and you won't have to be corrected constantly.

All the best.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Your argument is nonsense. 

I have now asked you this 7 TIMES but have never had a reply. Cause as others point out you don't actually contribute you just criticise. 

Can you please tell me what size tank you would recommend for 2 x sub 5" fish please. 

Not what they need when there adults, but what they need now please. 

48" tank is plenty big for them now IMO and other non PFK sources. But what do you say? Cause in all the posts you spout the same thing. Loud noises with no substance. 

It's a genuine question. 

You know fine well there being upgraded as I am sick of saying it. But for now there is no need to waste money on a tank triple the size for 2 tiny fish. There not even that quick growing. Up to 6-8" can be about 1.5 cm a month average. Takes them years to reach there adult size. But you knew that as google told you. 

Oh and copying links is great if you trust the other source. I have messages from jeff rapps about the dovii but you said that he is wrong as well about tank size..... 

You truly are clueless you know that. 

Everyone is wrong but you, I have decided to be the bigger man and not rise to your rubbish anymore. 

Have a lovely day, going to change the suspension arms on my car and re-fit the gearbox. 

TTFN


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh and thanks for proving my point about nit picking with words. I said you jumped down my throat about usingthe term bred rather than lay. Even when I corrected myself your clinging to it in your argument. 

Xxx


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> Your argument is nonsense.
> 
> I have now asked you this 7 TIMES but have never had a reply. Cause as others point out you don't actually contribute you just criticise.
> 
> ...


One big enough and aquascaped in a way that the weaker fish isn;t persistantly bullied. Thats what I said in the other thread when you accused the fish of being stupid.

Only anyone in the know would know it the fish keeper and not the fish that is at fault. 

Big man? Starting a thread by saying you were right even though you're wrong. Interesting.... lol

Have fun working on the shed.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

Graylord said:


> Some cichlids can breed at remarkably young ages and at a small size i had a succesful spawning and hatching from a pair of A .Rivulatus (Green Terrors) back in the early nineties ,they were two and a half inches long each!
> I have also had convicts spawn at less than 1 inch long and raise fry.


it's mad isn't it.
i had cons breed at about 2 inches.. they are just swimming stripey rabbits


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> One big enough and aquascaped in a way that the weaker fish isn;t persistantly bullied. Thats what I said in the other thread when you accused the fish of being stupid.
> 
> Only anyone in the know would know it the fish keeper and not the fish that is at fault.
> 
> ...


Yes I am a big man, thanks for noticing.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> it's mad isn't it.
> i had cons breed at about 2 inches.. they are just swimming stripey rabbits


Also good feeders for Dovii, Dovii eat the convicts and the convicts eat the dovii fry.

The circle of life.....


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

adding to my last..
i did breed them since i have one baby left, who is growing like a weed.
i let mr wiggles have his way with the rest.. not on purpose naturally


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Convicts were the first cichlid I had breeding If I can remember correctly, but that was about 18 years ago lol

Nice fish but like you say they are truly the rabbits of the fish world.

Im doing some re-modelling of the house soon so my tank will be getting an upgrade soon. It is absolutely fine just now as it only has the 2 fish in it and they are not even 5" in length.

But will be upgrading anyway, might make some people happy but probably not. But hey its difficult to please Hitler all the time. :whistling2:

Looks like a few eggs have turned white which is what I expected. She is fanning them but is still too timid herself and gides when I go in the room. Luckily she is atleast in the plant pot which will make her feel more secure.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

YAY.. fingers crossed you get some babies.
like i said, i've never even heard of these fish before i saw your post, let alone seen pics of them  i googled them ,they are dead gorgeous


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

caribe said:


> In previous posts you also bad mouthed him as well .....


Did he :lol2: which thread was that


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

> Moogloo - You were giving poor advise. You were asked if the LFS you work in did this because it puts profit over welfare. As you didn't reply, I can only assume you do.
> 
> If you're unhappy with that prove that these crappy little ornaments / tubs can support the fish you say they can by posting water parameter results over 6 to 12 months at the stocking levels accepted for the fish you specify. You might be taken seriously then. Thats not a dig as you suggest, I just prefer hard facts to hearsay, especially when it's from someone who clearly should know better given their career!



Reason: I dont need to justify who i am, what i do/what my job is, and what my choices are. (though i may add, you have seriously misjudged!).

You make it sound like you know who i am? Who I work for? I very much doubt it is who you care thinking lol. 

You buy me the tank and I will keep it for a year no problems. Just helped a colleague set up a Fluval Spec 7.6L tank  shall i ask him how my advice went on a weekly basis so you can hear how well it goes? Ooooh terrifying.... its going to have plants.... shock horror.... and...wait... omg.... a fish.... shocking... omg hurrah... call the rspca.

You cough up the money and i will do it, if not, shut up. Some of us have better things to spend money on than buying a tank purely to make a point.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moogloo said:


> Reason: I dont need to justify who i am, what i do/what my job is, and what my choices are. (though i may add, you have seriously misjudged!).
> 
> You make it sound like you know who i am? Who I work for? I very much doubt it is who you care thinking lol.
> 
> ...


You claim to be a shop assistant for a Maidenhead store. 

Actually there is currently a group of experienced fishkeepers looking into testing some of these crappy little ornaments / tubs in attempt to demonstrate why they are unsuitable for live fish. I imagine it will be around 6 to 12 months before their work is published online.

They have successful careers and can afford to finance the equipment purchases themselves. 

Thanks for demonstrating first hand how bad an LFS staff member can be though. People slate P&H staff, but the truth is, they employ many part timers who are clearly better at giving advise than yourself. 

If you do work for Maidenhead (And you may just have made that up), you're a terrible advert for them!


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Like i said Mynki, you are an arse and tbh, you claim to be oh so important but see no proof, you could claim alsrts... in fact, im pretty sure that fits in with your narcissism, feelings of grandeur and all that.

You think you are important, We think you are irritating and butting in on posts you have nothing useful to say in.

I work for MA but not to say i havent been promoted and not to say that is ALL i do lol.

You act like i cant keep fish alive in a 25 liter fluval Chi tank... i am pretty sure its not dificult if you actually know what you are doing....

I kept my Fluval Edge as a Pico Marine tank with Zoas, Mushrooms, Riccordia, blue sponge, orange sponges and frags of all sorts of colt corals, kenya trees, christmas tree corals etc... 

Not to mention a temporary pair of clowns (i had this tank up and running through two house moves.. hence clowns in a temporary small tank), a tiny sailfin blenny and Mr Googles my pet Mantis Shrimp... oh and a tiny goby that came in with my liverock, assume came in with feeder shrimps, a native species.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Ah, more personal insults.

Your advice is grim. You are a disgrace to a pretty good franchise. 

Yes, you can keep fish in a 25 litre tank, they're still a really bad choice of tank for 99% of all fishkeepers. But you'll fail to see that... Which is a shame as people tend to trust shop assistants in LFS for advice.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Which is why i wouldnt sell one to every other customer that comes in the shop... but then...you wouldnt know tis because you are not so all knowing as you try to appear to be,,, 

The more you try to argue your point, repeatedly.. like a broken reckord.... by putting people down, critisizing them, critisizing just about everyone but yourself, even contradicting yourself apparently... them ore of a complete miserable sad and friendly git you seem to be.

If you think im a disgrace to a franchise.. then personally, i think you are a disgrace to the human race... funny how sometimes, opinions dont really matter when facts are there.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moogloo said:


> Which is why i wouldnt sell one to every other customer that comes in the shop... but then...you wouldnt know tis because you are not so all knowing as you try to appear to be,,,
> 
> The more you try to argue your point, repeatedly.. like a broken reckord.... by putting people down, critisizing them, critisizing just about everyone but yourself, even contradicting yourself apparently... them ore of a complete miserable sad and friendly git you seem to be.
> 
> If you think im a disgrace to a franchise.. then personally, i think you are a disgrace to the human race... funny how sometimes, opinions dont really matter when facts are there.


Ah bless, where have I contradicted myself? I hope you can back this up, as you'll look very silly if you can't. Or is this opinion and not fact? lol

Your advice does border on the moronic. You recomend different species for pico tanks that need to be kept in shoals. So, 6 x 3 fish at 3cm length in a 19 litre tank? After displacement that will be more than 1cm of fish per litre that you're recomending to random forum members.

Elsewhere you insinuated that shops like yours are at threat from the chains like P&H. Are you struggling? Are you trying to sell fish as you're desperate?

Thats what it looks like....


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

> Ah bless, where have I contradicted myself? I hope you can back this up, as you'll look very silly if you can't. Or is this opinion and not fact? lol


Like i said...apparently... do i have to put it in bold? italic? in a box? will remember next time. Im dyslexic and struggle to read things sometimes unless its rephrased. I generally have to convert all text into a different colour to be able to read it. My point is, if i cant do that... then i politely ask....

Depends, im not a huge fan of' you can have so many cm of fish per so many liters'. Im sure even you should know its a very basic guesstimate. It will differ from species to species. Some fish are more active than others, for some fish, they are happy shoaling in a group of 6.

Some people want smll tanks, would you rather i sold them a tropical set up with microrasbora or equally small fish...or goldfish. Tell me. If it is either or, no other options, which would you prefer was advised? About 80% come back buy a bigger tank.... Better than some certain companies advising that a 15L baby biorb is ok for goldfish...

We have signs up saying tanks arent suitable for goldfish and legally, its customers problem. If they *already* have a goldfish in a bowl, i would at least rather it was in a tank with a filter..... I might not sell goldfish to a tank, but a tank to someone with a goldfish in a vase/bowl/bag?... you tell me which you would do? Either or, no alternatives.

If i can keep fish happily and easily in this sized tank, its because its what I enjoy! I have kepts 1300 liter tanks and yes id love it back but i dont have time or space any more. My stingrays are back at the shop and fine. I looked into Nano and ended up Pico and loved it, With most cutomers, enthusiasm is catching. If i really must id get customers to say so, but im only bothering to reply because im bored and being kept awake and amawaiting going to bed, im not that fussed.

You like like you are being harsh because while im pointing out the obious... like... you are a harsh, cruel person who loves to wind up other people.

Tell you what. You tell us who you are and what you do exactly that makes you so superior to the rest of us (believe me, you might 'have it in for me' but im here for everyone who isnt...well....you!).

What is it you do that makes you so superior?


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

i didn't realise P. dovii was wolf cichlid.
i feel stupid now


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

spinnin_tom said:


> i didn't realise P. dovii was wolf cichlid.
> i feel stupid now


Yeah I tend to use the Latin names to avoid confusion.. although they change the genus so many time I can never tell if its cichlasoma, nandpopis or parachromis lol

Its the biggest of the Guatope cichlid and my favourite. Has been since I got my first female a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. :lol2:

A third of the eggs have turned white so not fertile. The rest actually dont look too bad... but I would expenct that by Tuesday that they will all be this way.

The problem I am having is she is not tending to the eggs much at all. I have been leaving her too it but she is not picking at the dead eggs like she should. She is still fanning them but it looks to be in vain....

Hmmmm


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

caribe said:


> Yeah I tend to use the Latin names to avoid confusion.. although they change the genus so many time I can never tell if its cichlasoma, nandpopis or parachromis lol
> 
> Its the biggest of the Guatope cichlid and my favourite. Has been since I got my first female a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. :lol2:
> 
> ...


In answer to your PM I think you know as well as I do that inexperienced cichlids often get it wrong. I've had two female firemouths pair, spawn and attempt to tend the eggs. I've read that this isn't as rare as I thought it might have been.

I'd say to do nothing for now. It's not unusual for a pair to need several attempts to get it right and from your descroption it sounds like this pair could need months, Probably even a year before they're sexually mature.

I would leave the eggs be. I think human intervention won't help her at all. I know how frustrating it is when you want them to spawn, but most cichlids eventually get it right. The thing is though, they're not sexually mature yet, so I'd leave them be and try and be as patient as possible. 

I'm surprised the white eggs have not yet been removed by her though. It's likely that they'll become fungussed at some point, that might trigger her into dealing with them. If not and if they're still there I'd wait until she loses interest (This will happen eventually) and remove them then. While ever she has interest let her learn....


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

I don't think I will ever understand the debate about nano or other small tanks you know. Mynki, can you tell me what this research you mentioned is, and who's conducting it so I can look out for it please? I have a lot of littler tanks, and I think they're hard work, but very rewarding. 
I completly agree that things like biorbs full of goldfish marketed for beginners are a very stupid idea for far too many reasons to list!
But I don't see why suitably stocked, properly maintained small tanks are a problem at all if the person is aware of their limitations.


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## caribe (Mar 21, 2010)

Mynki said:


> In answer to your PM I think you know as well as I do that inexperienced cichlids often get it wrong. I've had two female firemouths pair, spawn and attempt to tend the eggs. I've read that this isn't as rare as I thought it might have been.
> 
> I'd say to do nothing for now. It's not unusual for a pair to need several attempts to get it right and from your descroption it sounds like this pair could need months, Probably even a year before they're sexually mature.
> 
> ...


Yeah I am leaving them too it.

I dont want them to spawn, never did If im honest. There are definitely a fair few white eggs. She stays in her pot apart from when I first come in the room.

Hopefully she will loose interest and I will remove them.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Christie_ZXR said:


> I don't think I will ever understand the debate about nano or other small tanks you know. Mynki, can you tell me what this research you mentioned is, and who's conducting it so I can look out for it please? I have a lot of littler tanks, and I think they're hard work, but very rewarding.
> I completly agree that things like biorbs full of goldfish marketed for beginners are a very stupid idea for far too many reasons to list!
> But I don't see why suitably stocked, properly maintained small tanks are a problem at all if the person is aware of their limitations.


A number of aquarists have gotten together to raise awareness of hobby and industry issues. The project has literally only just started and it will be several months before you'll be able to see independant tests of nano ornament tests. They'll be independant too, so the information given won't be provided by LFS staff who have a vested interest in selling 'replacement' fish that have died premaurely down to the poor advice given by kids working in fish shops. 

Ornament / nano tanks are not the only issues to be tackled. I visit lots of LFS here and abroad and it gauls me to see them selling 60 litre tanks advertised as goldfish tanks with 6 to 10 baby goldies in. Whats particularly frustrating is that the shop will usually be signed up to OATA's code of conduct. And if you look around you'll even see their pledge to responsible sales on a wall for Joe Public to read. 

Whats saddening about Moogloo is that her company have actually done some very good work to raise awareness of fish welfare. In particular their refusal to stock certain species that are difficult to house for life, so when you see a rogue employee spouting :censor: masquerading as advice it's doubly dissapointing. Simon Langdale (A Maidenhead senior and OATA director) would probably be a lot more dissapointed though. But there are Moogloo's in every chain store and in independants, pushing tiny tanks resulting in overstocking the world over.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

If Simon was so dissapointed, he wouldnt have employed me now would he, like i keep saying, you dont know me or anything about me, there is no reason for you to keep slating me and my job.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moogloo said:


> If Simon was so dissapointed, he wouldnt have employed me now would he, like i keep saying, you dont know me or anything about me, there is no reason for you to keep slating me and my job.


I said he'd be dissapointed in an employee who claims to work for MA spouting :censor: on internet forums. So you're post above is not relevant. 

It's not exactly proffesional to attack another competitor (Who you apparently fear) is it? I'm sure MA staff and ex MA staff on here get all upset when people attack them. They're reputation wasn't brilliant not so long ago after all was it. So it's OK for you to criticise, but not OK when people question your advise?

Grow up!


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Look, you are the only person here who seems to dislike me and everything i say, if anyone has any problems with me, most have the decency to send me a PM and question me and i quite happily chat with people.

You are going back and forth using other peoples posts to slate me about topics that got closed because you couldnt keep your unwanted thoughts to yourself. You are referring back to the [email protected] topic (now closed because of you), the fact that i like pico tanks in yet another thread... you need to stop trying to derail other peoples topics. If you didnt even like the OPs post, then dont reply.

When I am on this forum, i am generally at home not at work, i am....funnily enough.... allowed my own opinions. Personally, i'd not sell half the tanks we have in stock, mainly because most customers are just too lazy to be trusted to maintain them.

At no point at all have i said "I work for *insert name* and it is our belief that..." or "It is OUR opinion that [email protected] is an awful company". I believe all my posts were worded that it was my opinion.

And it is my opinion which i am perfectly entitled to from my personal experience and from dealing with a LOT of people who have also had problems. If people feel the need to slate the company i work for (which the often do elsewhere) is is generally for really daft or petty things that could easily be rectified and I have yet to ever see anyone make a post complaining about the store I work in. 

I dont *mind* if people complain, they are allowed to have an opinion and unlike you, i dont detest and slate other people for having an opinion.

I dont understand why you are really gunning for me, as if I am not allowed an opinion on anything or allowed an opinion or anything outside of work, your thoughts are rather strange.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

I'm not.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moogloo said:


> i'd not sell half the tanks we have in stock, mainly because most customers are just too lazy to be trusted to maintain them.


Oh yeah, should have said, if you truly believe this why recommend them on here? Not exactly logical is it Gem? 

But it's nice to see your true opinion Gem.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

In all fairness i ought to reword how that was phrased... "personally... i hate half the tanks we sell because I would never buy one myself".

I dont know which tanks you are thinking of but I like Hagens range of small tanks if thats who you are slating this time. I am planning to get the 7.6L spec tank next 

Its Gem now is it? 

I dont mind you, you are a laugh really but Id appreciate you not dragging my work life and personal opinions into the same place, you are bright enough to know I dont need to mixthe two.

I loveto hear your opinions and would love to hear more about your research/research you are involved in etc.

However I would like at least a small ammount of respect if you dont mind, and not just me, you have offended and been pretty rude to a lot of people.


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

You do know I hinted at this some time ago don't you? In a post written by me, to you.....

To be fair, the minute you tell people what your career is, who you work for whilst posting opinions, you mix the two yourself. And yes, thats not always a very good thing to do. Unless you own the company. Even then you run risks. Ask Gerald Ratner.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

I know you did, but that was before i had to go away for a couple of days, been an odd few! So thought i'd remind you 

I havent said who I worked for, you did  same as you kept mentioning it over and over


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## Mynki (Mar 24, 2010)

Moogloo said:


> I know you did, but that was before i had to go away for a couple of days, been an odd few! So thought i'd remind you
> 
> I havent said who I worked for, you did  same as you kept mentioning it over and over


Actually you have. You posted the name of your employer for all to see. 

Many people do. But you wrote the magic words. ;p


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Mynki said:


> I said he'd be dissapointed in an employee who claims to work for MA spouting :censor: on internet forums. So you're post above is not relevant.
> 
> It's not exactly proffesional to attack another competitor (Who you apparently fear) is it? I'm sure MA staff and ex MA staff on here get all upset when people attack them. They're reputation wasn't brilliant not so long ago after all was it. So it's OK for you to criticise, but not OK when people question your advise?
> 
> Grow up!



Ugh!! :devil:

You're. Shortened form of "You are" with the apostrophe in place of the letter A.

"So you are post above isn't" is not correct english!!

They're. Shortened form of "They are" with the apostrophe again in place of the letter A.

"They are reptutation wasn't brilliant"

Their, There and They're

"That is their bag, it has been left over there. They're coming back for it soon"

How to Use There, Their and They're - wikiHow

-

Also, please, please pack it in. Insults and personal attacks will do nothing other than get the thread locked, maybe get you banned and definitely cause a lot of people to disregard your advice from hereonin as it cannot be given in a polite manner without a dose of prejudice and aggression.


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