# what leo morph?



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

hatched like this......










now looks like this..........


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## xNatashax (Nov 20, 2009)

i have no clue bout the morph but he or she is very jawguss i would prob say it not a normal lol


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

thats an awesom baby, kind of the reverse of a patternless stripe, a full stripe maybe, looks like its displaying stripe and reverse stripe, if its not a keeper i'm calling first dibs lol, 

cash or trade :whistling2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Bet it has black eyes like eclipse also ?.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

its too small for me to tell for sure ( where do i sign up for a free labrador? )

one looks snaky, one looks dark?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I already have 1st dibs boywonder from the day it hatched, sorry. :Na_Na_Na_Na: I think pigglywiggly is keeping this one and letting me have the next one that hatches similar. I <3 my friends!! lol

My vote is stripe & reverse stripe causing the black out pattern with stripes :notworthy: :mf_dribble:


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

My moneys on Calico if it has black eyes.
Stunning gecko!!!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

now now children, play nicely :Na_Na_Na_Na:

whats a calico then?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> its too small for me to tell for sure ( where do i sign up for a free labrador? )
> 
> one looks snaky, one looks dark?


No one really knows the genetics of these leo's as of yet they'ed offered nothing genetic. The first one i see was owned by Geckoetc also offered nothing genetic, A couple have been thrown from Calico breeding in Europe, I don't think this is anything to do with Calico now, As there has been another in the uk, And Prawn own by(quadrapop) and is a Talbino version. I think these leo's are just freak pop ups like Paradox albino that tend are cool looking but tend to offer nothing genetic. 

Traits o these leo's.
Born with a high percent of Black tone(Pink/Brown if Talbino).
Iris black out often high percent.
As black tone fades a dorsal stripe is expressed carrys on into tail.

Prawn, 

























One from Europe from Cailco to Normal breeding.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

anyone got a link to calicos? or know what they are genetically?


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

I thought calico was a new morph and was genetic? Didn't I see a USA breeder with a sink full of them?? How would he produce that many unless it was genetic?

My money is still on the stripe & reverse stripe theory. The calico in the above pics has yellow sides and dark back?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

nuttybabez said:


> I thought calico was a new morph and was genetic? Didn't I see a USA breeder with a sink full of them?? How would he produce that many unless it was genetic?
> 
> My money is still on the stripe & reverse stripe theory. The calico in the above pics has yellow sides and dark back?


Yes calico is genetic. But i don't think there is a Super calico. As people are getting leo's that look like the said to be super calico but they them self have no calicos. Make sence ?.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> anyone got a link to calicos? or know what they are genetically?


Post #13 are Calicos.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/539815-leo-morph-2.html


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## nuttybabez (Jul 21, 2007)

gazz said:


> Yes calico is genetic. But i don't think there is a Super calico. As people are getting leo's that look like the said to be super calico but they them self have no calicos. Make sence ?.


Ah I understand what you meant now!! Thanks!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

The above leo came from a Calico X Normal breeding and is said to be a Super calico. However the below leo Prawn was *NOT* bred with anything calico, Prawn has *NO* Calico blood but is just the same as the said to be Super calico but ofcourse is Prawn is plus Talbino gene. That why i now think this leo type can spring up any where. But won't have anything genetic to offer. Onless Prawn proves other wise this year.









__________________


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

and the man with the sink full of calicos says they are co-dom.
( he calls them white and yellow)

i think he means more like tug snow and the 1 copy/2copy thing rather than a super form?


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> and the man with the sink full of calicos says they are co-dom.
> ( he calls them white and yellow)
> 
> i think he means more like tug snow and the 1 copy/2copy thing rather than a super form?


Most people agree that they are Dominant, As the "Super calico" has not been proven to be genetic. And based on what i'm seeing that may well be the case.

Calico's and W&Y(White and Yellow) are the same morph.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i wondered if it was the translation from polish :blush:


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## tonkaz0 (Apr 25, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> hatched like this......
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 

Thats a little cracker piggly, his/her grown on pattern looks very similar to some of the JMG lavender stripes I had from Rob mckevitt, and one of my JMG Red stripes was very dark like that when first pipped, Im not saying its either of them at all though! just sharing my thoughts,
its a cracker whatever anyway,:lol2:.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

interesting, she`s very lavender in real life, stroppy lil bugger too. 

but odd out of a normal and a mack tho.


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

i have a white and yellow female originaly from poland that i got from homegrowngekko, she didn't start ovulating this season so i've not done anything with her yet, i did a bit of digging about this strange mutation and there have been some in france also from w&y x ???
here's the link but its all in french Le Temple Du Gecko :: La "naissance" du "lupo"


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

thats very interesting, cheers for finding that for me. :2thumb:

from the pitures i could see on the thread the colour on hatching and the changes as it grows are identical so far,

i couldnt get the pictures of the parents to download tho, what colour were they?

and google translate dosnt improve the text much!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> thats very interesting, cheers for finding that for me. :2thumb:
> 
> from the pitures i could see on the thread the colour on hatching and the changes as it grows are identical so far,
> 
> ...


Problem is Lupo calico(Super calico) came from Calicos. You don't have a Calico. That's why i think the look of your that looks like the othrers is nothing to do with Calico.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i have not claimed to have a calico, i`ve neverheard of them.

i`ve just said that my oddball baby is developing the same way as the pictures on the webpage ( that i cant read as its in frog ) that boywonder put the link up for...........


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

pigglywiggly said:


> i have not claimed to have a calico, i`ve neverheard of them.
> 
> i`ve just said that my oddball baby is developing the same way as the pictures on the webpage ( that i cant read as its in frog ) that boywonder put the link up for...........


I didn't say that you've clamed to have calico, I was just saying that yours look like them ones but you don't have a calico. So it's not the calico influance throwing these type of leo's out. There's somthing else at play.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks for putting my pics up, just read through. I have bred both her parents together another season and had nothing unusual and am still waiting on more from prawn. I dont want to keep loads of leos anymore but im still interested in working with her. I was thinking maybe getting a bog standard normal male to put her to and see the outcome. I think this would be a better pairing than anything else I can do.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

was prawn a one off? 
the clutchmate to mine was along similar lines, but not solid backed, i have some more eggs cooking so it`ll be interesting to see if the others hatch anything similar.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

I bred her mum to the same male for 2 seasons and roughly 25 babies and only 1 prawn, the rest were, mack snow and albinos in the first season and blizzards, mack snows and normals in the second season. I have only had 2 babies from prawn so far, both stunning tangerine babues but nothing like her.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> I was thinking maybe getting a bog standard normal male to put her to and see the outcome. I think this would be a better pairing than anything else I can do.


If pigglywiggly is male you should put Prawn with this one :2thumb:.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Here's the first like these i ever saw, This was Geckoetc leo they don't have her any more. 
Her name was/is Milly. She had solid eyes.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

If only we lived in the same country!


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

Wierd, so why do calicos (like above) look nothing like w&y's when they are supposed to be the same morph according to others.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> Wierd, so why do calicos (like above) look nothing like w&y's when they are supposed to be the same morph according to others.


To what are you refering to, You didn't link you post. If you mean Lupo calico/Super calico they aren't the same as Calico/W&Y .


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

I dont have a link its just from the last year of searching. Yes I mean whats the difference between the "lupo calico" and the white and yellow.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> I dont have a link its just from the last year of searching. Yes I mean whats the difference between the "lupo calico" and the white and yellow.


Yep! calico and Lupo calico are two differant things.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

that makes more sense no one has bothered to answer that for me thanks.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> If only we lived in the same country!


You and pigglywiggly are both based in the UK, So not that impossible.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

It would mean someone trusting the other with their leo and I wouldnt do it and I dont think she would either lol.



Anyway whats your opinion on me getting a normal male for her? Ive heard that calico to normal often produces a higher percentage of calicos if any. Im aware that she is likely nothing genetic but doesnt do any harm to see.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> It would mean someone trusting the other with their leo and I wouldnt do it and I dont think she would either lol.


I was thinking if you ever have to sell Prawn for what ever reason. Or if pigglywiggly sells this one and it's male. offer each other first refusal. It would be such a shame to let these two wither away with out even just one mating to see if anything happens.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

gazz said:


> I was thinking if you ever have to sell Prawn for what ever reason. Or if pigglywiggly sells this one and it's male. offer each other first refusal. It would be such a shame to let these two wither away with out even just one mating to see if anything happens.


 
true, i edited above, what do you think.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> It would mean someone trusting the other with their leo and I wouldnt do it and I dont think she would either lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway whats your opinion on me getting a normal male for her? Ive heard that calico to normal often produces a higher percentage of calicos if any. Im aware that she is likely nothing genetic but doesnt do any harm to see.


Thing is if this trait is comming of the normals, You need to find one with this influance trait, The odds of this being the one that you buy IMO is way out there in odds. 

It would be like having one Normal HET Albino female in a box of 100 normal females, And you picking out one normal to breed with a Albino. Now the odds of you getting the Normal HET Albino is't impossible put the odds are very unlikely.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

gazz said:


> Thing is if this trait is comming of the normals, You need to find one with this influance trait, The odds of this being the one that you buy IMO is way out there in odds.
> 
> It would be like having one Normal HET Albino female in a box of 100 normal females, And you picking out one normal to breed with a Albino. Now the odds of you getting the Normal HET Albino is't impossible put the odds are very unlikely.


 


I dont get why a normal would have anything to do with the trait. The point of getting a normal is that any unusual offspring will most likely be due to prawns influence.


sorry if i mis read sometimes but as its not written about much I cant just research to get my head around this one.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

quadrapop said:


> I dont get why a normal would have anything to do with the trait. The point of getting a normal is that any unusual offspring will most likely be due to prawns influence.
> 
> 
> sorry if i mis read sometimes but as its not written about much I cant just research to get my head around this one.


If prawn had in influance it would have happen, No matter that you bred her with, And if would deffo happen this season with you back breeding her to her sire. IMO breeding her to a normal would offer you no insight at all. If anything is going to happen if will happen with the breeding you doing now. How many eggs have you got to go and how many have hatched.


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

only 2 have hatched and theres 3 in the incubator but shes laying more, need to mate her again too. Dont want to over do it at her first season but she seems to be keeping the weight up real well. 2 Are due anytime now.

The first one is going very tangerine and has contrasting pale areas but nothing out the ordinary just a very nice looking baby with her colours. the second has gone a bit darker but still normal.


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

i agree that breeding the prawn back to her dad is the only way to go as far as reproducing this amazing phenotype, and the same with pigglywiggly's cool hatchling, breed it back to a parent to see if it's anything genetic, if this is a reproduceable trait i for one would buy into it


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

Another 2 albinos from prawn. Was hoping for some mack albinos or blazing blizzards  If shes anything like her mum her hets will only come up occasionally!!


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