# Please help, need advice/help on heating for my new Leo.



## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

I recently brought a leopard gecko for our family. I brought a starter kit which came with the following...
ReptiHome Small Wooden Vivarium (57.5cm x 37.5cm x 42cm (23" x 15" x 16.5")
Heat mat 13w
Thermostat 
Analogue thermometer (and other little bits and bobs) 
My problem is that the temp only reaches 23 degrees max. I have tried changing the substrate to reptile carpet and making sure the probe is right next to heat mat but it just will not get warmer. What am I doing wrong? I'm so worried for my little man Leonard (my gecko) 
Thanks for any advice


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

Hiya,

Is your thermostat set too low? try turning it up a degree or so and see if the thermometer still reads the same.

Also, if you're using an analogue thermometer you will be measuring the air temperature not the heat-mat temp, as these are contact heaters this isn't a good way to measure it accurately. normally you would use a digital thermometer directly on top of the heatmat (above the substrate) or you can try a gun type thermometer as they are generally considered most accurate 

good luck


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Bexa4 said:


> I recently brought a leopard gecko for our family. I brought a starter kit which came with the following...
> ReptiHome Small Wooden Vivarium (57.5cm x 37.5cm x 42cm (23" x 15" x 16.5")
> Heat mat 13w
> Thermostat
> ...


I've highlighted your problem  

What you need is a digital one, with a probe. 

I'm *guessing* the one it came with is one of those dial ones? Or similar? like: 
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518gZ0N54aL.jpg

What you need is: 
http://source-www.petco.com/assets/product_images/0/096316002326B.jpg


Because the temperature you need to measure is the floor temperature, what the heat mat is at, not the air temp, which is all a analogue one can do. And you certainly don't want a air temperature of 30 degrees! haha. 

Chances are, assuming my guesses are right, that the mat is actually too hot. Analogue ones are notoriously unreliable. Don't worry so much about the ambient air temperature - you don't really need to measure that - it's the heat the leo will be sat on, the mat itself, that you need to make sure is right, as thats where the leo will get its heat from. 

I don't mean to sound preachy or like I'm having a go at you btw, sometimes it can come across that way I know : victory:


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Analog thermometers cannot tel you how hot the ground is getting, which is what is important with a heat mat - i would say dont crank up the thermostat until you can work out the ground temp

if you are getting a reading of 23 degrees on an analog dial meter, that is air temperature, it is very important to know the difference because you could have as much as 40 degrees on the ground, there is no way to know without a proper thermometer

Get yourself a digital thermometer, either a probe type, or even better an IR gun type, and find out what the heated area on the floor is reading, and set the thermostat according to the temperature on the ground, which should be around 30-31

make sure your leo has access to at least 3 hides, one on the hot side above the heat mat, one on the cool side, and one humid hide with damp moss, and you'll be set


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thank you for all your replies, I'm been going out my mind worrying about him so it's so nice to know people will help when I'm in need.
Metaphysicalninja- no you don't sound like you're preaching, I read up on so much before I got him but I guess owning one is how you properly learn.
The analog thermometer I have does have two probes on it, one for the hot end and one for the cool side. It's a very confusing piece of equipment! So that is what needs changing? Even tho it has the probes which are on the heat mat (which is under the substrate of course).
Thanks again, I can stop googling and go get me a digital thermometer


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

It was that you referred to probes that confused me! I think it will be a digital one, can you take a picture and upload it onto here via photobucket?


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Kirtsthorsman- sorry for ignoring your question. Yes the thermostat is set correctly. I have put it to 30 but it never clicks off because it never gets that high. My analoge thermometer plugs into the thermostat.


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Bexa4 said:


> Thank you for all your replies, I'm been going out my mind worrying about him so it's so nice to know people will help when I'm in need.
> Metaphysicalninja- no you don't sound like you're preaching, I read up on so much before I got him but I guess owning one is how you properly learn.
> The analog thermometer I have does have two probes on it, one for the hot end and one for the cool side. It's a very confusing piece of equipment! So that is what needs changing? Even tho it has the probes which are on the heat mat (which is under the substrate of course).
> Thanks again, I can stop googling and go get me a digital thermometer


phew  

I've never heard of one like that before... no idea what that could be! 
But as the last poster said, you could have a very, very hot mat under there if it's not reading the temperature properly. 
You sound like you know how it all should work, but just be sure the probe is on the lowest/closest point the leo can get to the heat mat. Then once you've got a accurate reading of the temperature, dial down/up your thermostat to get the 28-30 range. I normally aim for 28-29ish with my leos, gives a little leeway for hot days and they seem to like it like that lol. 

There is something to be said for hands on learning haha


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm really confused about your thermometer now! try putting the actual thermometer directly ontop of the substrate and see what it says then? the probe you're talking about may be the thermostat probe which is what is uses to control the temperature. the control units are famously inaccurate which is why we all need thermometers  

sorry if I'm being thick - I just can't imagine what you're describing - a picture would be really really helpful!


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Cloudforest- I'm confused with my thermometer, it says analog on the set I brought but I think it's didgital (sorry not all that great with technology) it has two metal probes, and a humidity sensor thing.
I can't take a picture but i have found it on the site and it is Digital...it's called 
The Swell Deluxe Digital Thermo-Hygrometer (Komodo)


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

That's great, thanks!

Are you sure its on the right mode? you may be measuring the cold end or minimum temperature or something


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

kirstyhorsman said:


> It was that you referred to probes that confused me! I think it will be a digital one, can you take a picture and upload it onto here via photobucket?





Bexa4 said:


> Kirtsthorsman- sorry for ignoring your question. Yes the thermostat is set correctly. I have put it to 30 but it never clicks off because it never gets that high. My analoge thermometer plugs into the thermostat.





kirstyhorsman said:


> I'm really confused about your thermometer now! try putting the actual thermometer directly ontop of the substrate and see what it says then? *the probe you're talking about may be the thermostat probe which is what is uses to control the temperature. the control units are famously inaccurate which is why we all need thermometers*
> 
> sorry if I'm being thick - *I just can't imagine what you're describing - a picture would be really really helpful!*


Your not the only one! :hmm:
I have no idea what kind of thermometer that could be. 

I've never heard of a thermometer that plugs into a thermostat :s 

OP - a photo fo your kit would be immensely useful to us, if we could figure out what it actually is that you have we may be able to help you get it set up without buying anything else :2thumb:

I hadn't thought it could be the probe for the thermostat Kirsty... good idea. 
If that's true OP then yes as Kirsty said those dials are totally useless, ignore em and get a dedicated thermometer. 

Meanwhile, I shall ponder :hmm:


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Okay had an idea... 

is this how you have your viv set up? 



Where the thermostat is connected to the mat, the probe for the thermostat is on top of the mat, and the thermometer probe is next to it/on top of the mat as well?


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

I have tried uploading picture which no joy. I got the set from swellreptiles.co.uk and as I said in the last post it's called a "The Swell Deluxe Digital Thermo-Hygrometer" It came with useless instructions but think I have managed to set it up properly. I don't think the probes are set to hot or cold, I'm pretty sure you put them whichever side you want and then set what the lowest and highest temp for that side is. The thermostat is the - swell thermostat (which came with set) which plugs into the habistat heat mat.


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Themetaphysicalninja- yea that's right, exactly like that. I am going to have a fiddle with probes, I may try putting it in his warm hide against the substrate still to see what that reads.
Thanks again, you have no idea how grateful I am for both of your help


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Okay cool - I've looked at the thermometer and it looks like a nice one to me. What you've said sounds right enough. When you say set the lowest and highest temp, thats just for the alert from the thermometer, right? 
Hm... Where abouts do you have the thermostat probe, and the thermometer probe? 
I don't mean to keep banging on about the same things but thats where the confusion is for us I think, and that'll be where the problem is I would think  

Just had a look at the swell kit, it all looks the same as the ones I use (habistat) so the set up should be the same. If you have a photo I'd be happy for you to email it to me and I'll upload it for you/take a look?


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

thats a digital thermometer, good news!

the thermometer probe, and the thermostat probe, need to be placed on the bottom of the enclosure, together, directly above the heat mat, and underneath the substrate

then place the hide on top of the substrate and the probes

20-30 mins after doing this, check the temperature, and adjust the thermostat as needed - as long as your leo also has access to a hide on the cool side, he will be ok while you are adjusting the setup to get it all working properly


If you still get a reading of 23C on the thermometer, take the thermometer probe and hold it in a tight fist, the temp should go up to somewhere between 30 and 36C, depending on how warm your hands are, this will tell you if the thermometer is working properly.

next test the thermostat, set the tempreture on the thermostat to something lower than 23C, if it switches off, then the thermostat is probably ok

so next you need to test the heat mat itself, unplug it from the thermostat and remove it from underneath the enclosure, and plug it straight into the wall - leave it for 15 minutes, then touch it to see if it is warm, if it is, great, its working, if not, its faulty

if all those things show everything is in working order, then it must not be setup quite right, so the best thing then is to get a photo up and we can help you more 

try a website like tinypic.com - you can upload the picture, and it will give you a forum link which you can copy into your post and it displays the picture automatically


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Bexa4 said:


> Themetaphysicalninja- yea that's right, exactly like that. I am going to have a fiddle with probes, I may try putting it in his warm hide against the substrate still to see what that reads.
> Thanks again, you have no idea how grateful I am for both of your help


Great! So your kit is set up right, brill. 

In which case... erm. Just have a fiddle, move the thermometer probe around a bit like you say and see what it says... if nowhere is getting hot enough, I would consider turning the thermostat up a notch - the dials on them are pretty much useless anyway so just ignore the temperature it says om there. If your measuring the temperature on top of the substrate over the mat then I'd aim for a slightly cooler hot spot - I'd think the 28-29 mark, as the leo will be able to dig down into the substrate easily enough if it wants to be warmer, whereas if you turn it up to get the 30c on the surface, the temperature further down is going to be much higher. 

Your using sand, right? It is a very good insulator (ever been on a hot beach and stuck your hand under the sand? It's a lot lot colder) so that might easily be affecting it. Just thought :blush:

No problem! even if it turns out to be a minor thing - better to be safe than sorry :cheers:

Edit: Cloudforest has some good ideas there ^.^


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

No please don't apologize for saying the same things again, I'm sorry for needing written instructions that a child would understand better :-/ 
The thermometer probe was against the substrate, hot side next to his hide. I have now placed it inside his hide and it has gone up a little  (is that ok to do? Put inside the hide?) the thermostat probe was a little higher but still the hot side, I have now moved that down so that is against the substrate with the heat mat under. Is that right?


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

I was using sand but it seemed way to cold and I read up that they can eat it when hunting and make themselves unwell so I changed to reptile carpet. That did seem to warm it up a little but still not enough. It is now at 27 degrees...yay it's never been that high  so maybe my little dude was warm enough all along and his imbecile adoptive mother just wasn't measuring it right!


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Bexa4 said:


> No please don't apologize for saying the same things again, I'm sorry for needing written instructions that a child would understand better :-/
> The thermometer probe was against the substrate, hot side next to his hide. I have now placed it inside his hide and it has gone up a little  (is that ok to do? Put inside the hide?) the thermostat probe was a little higher but still the hot side, I have now moved that down so that is against the substrate with the heat mat under. Is that right?


Spot on :2thumb:

So, give that 20min or so to warm up/level out. 

What temp you getting on the thermometer now? 

So long as your temps are stable, and the right number, it doesn't matter where the thermostat probe is... just once its somewhere that works don't move it :lol2:

It sounds to me like your thermostat probe might have been too far away so it wasn't warming up enough. Now it's closer it should reach a higher temp and sort it all out. Just keep a close eye on it for the next hour or 2 at least. I'd aim a little higher than 27 but your nearly there - one or two more and make sure it's stable, and your sorted! 

It wont hurt putting the thermometer in the hide - if it's somewhere the leo sits then the temperature there can be monitored. The thermostat probe I wouldn't suggest putting in the hide, as if the leo sits on it it could make the temperature go up rather fast and too high, but obv that's not a problem with just the thermometer probe. 

Post back if that's got it all sorted : victory:


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

-cloudforest. I have tested them all and they are all working so like I said above, it was me being stupid! I read too much on the internet from people who don't know what they're saying. So glad to have found you two 
For any future problems I may have, will you both still be on here? It's nice to speak to people who haven't made me feel useless and just wanted to help. Thank you for that. I'm learning more every minute


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## clumsyoaf (Oct 23, 2012)

Just to say when I said the wrong setting I meant on the screen, is there some kind of "mode" button or something to change the numbers on the screen, press it a few times and you may see a temperature of around 30 flash up somewhere  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Yes it does have a mode button. It's very confusing as it has temp for inside, outside, highest, lowest. And then the temp that you set yourself to tell when the thermostat should turn on or off...


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

yep, having the probe inside the hide is fine, as long as the leo has access to the temps it needs, both warm and cool


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Bexa4 said:


> Yes it does have a mode button. It's very confusing as it has temp for inside, outside, highest, lowest. And then the temp that you set yourself to tell when the thermostat should turn on or off...


''inside'' will be the temperature around the main unit, so that is Air temp, ''outside'' will be the temperature at the probe - so thats the one you need to keep an eye on to check the thermostat and heat mat are set correctly


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Bexa4 said:


> -cloudforest. I have tested them all and they are all working so like I said above, it was me being stupid! I read too much on the internet from people who don't know what they're saying. So glad to have found you two
> For any future problems I may have, will you both still be on here? It's nice to speak to people who haven't made me feel useless and just wanted to help. Thank you for that. I'm learning more every minute


I've been lurking for yonks... not planning to go anytime soon  



Bexa4 said:


> Yes it does have a mode button. It's very confusing as it has temp for inside, outside, highest, lowest. *And then the temp that you set yourself to tell when the thermostat should turn on or off...*


isn't that set on the thermostat itself, via the dial in the middle? The one I looked at had a dial for temp control on the thermostat. The thermometer I found on the Swell site has a alarm on it, that'll be what you can set a temp for I would have thought? :hmm:

Other than that CloudForest already covered it xD 


Oh, and :welcome: to rfuk haha!


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Yes whoops, that's right. The little alarm bleeps, it done it a lot when we first set it up. But seems to be ok now.
Ok, so as I'm a little worrier and you two are very helpful...Leonard (my gecko) has stopped eating his crickets, it's been 2 days. I have been giving him his mealworms still but he only eats 4-5 of them a day. I even brought wax worms for him so he doesn't lose any weight and so his tail stays nice and big. Any ideas why that may be? His colour has also faded but I'm guessing/hoping that's due to him shredding. Could that be the reason for his loss of appetite?
Thank you


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

sounds like he's about to shed yes - has he got a humid hide? a simple plastic box with a hole in it, filled with damp sphagnum moss will ensure he sheds without any complications

also he's in a new place, so his appetite will be a bit off until he settles down, he might be waiting until the house is very dark and quiet until he comes out to eat, as he gets used to his new home, he'll gain confidence


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

Trying to send a picture here...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....93587_10151878174157361_1328906618_o.jpg?dl=1

This is my boy. As you can see he is nice and bright. But he has gone a little dull computed now :-(


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## Bexa4 (Jan 16, 2014)

He does have a moist hide but it's half a coconut...is that ok? We used kitchen towel at the start which he loved but though we would try the moss but he didn't go back in there for a couple of days! I changed it back last night and he has been in there most of the time. 
Aren't Leo's amazing, he has us all wrapped round his little foot


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## TheMetaphysicalNinja (Aug 18, 2009)

Yep thats fine, whatever works for you. Sounds like he's shedding - dont worry about it. They can go several weeks without food, a couple of days wont hurt. Mine are only fed every third day, and they are big and reaching retirement age  

As said before, probably just settling, plus the confusion over temperatures could easily have him a little put off. 
Give it a month or so, and you'll probably notice he settles a bit more and gets a bit more confident eating in front of you. You may be learning all these new things about keeping a leo, but hes still learning too - all those new sights and smells and new person are a big change, and it can take some time for them to get used to that


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