# Information PLEASE on culling mice



## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm looking for some comprehensive (and scientifically backed) information on culling mice.

I cull my mice litters at 4 days old but putting the pinks in the freezer but I've recently been re-researching this and have read a lot of reports that this is totally inhumane due to the way they may die?

Does anyone know the actual process when freezing pinks ue how long it takes for them to die?

Could someone please shed some light on this? I have a C02 chamber for "older" mice but didn't think I could use this method for pinks.

What IS the *most humane* way of culling pinks, fluffs, jeuvs and adult mice?

Thank you : victory:


----------



## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

NaomiR said:


> I'm looking for some comprehensive (and scientifically backed) information on culling mice.
> 
> I cull my mice litters at 4 days old but putting the pinks in the freezer but I've recently been re-researching this and have read a lot of reports that this is totally inhumane due to the way they may die?
> 
> ...


For the first six or seven days pinks have an inbuilt ability to shut down if oxygen is in short supply (like when mum sits on them). Durring this time if you use CO2 they will appear to die but wake up again once oxygen is restored which is why people freeze them. The problem is that freezing in a standard freezer is not quick enough. Large ice crystals grow in the skin legs and eyes long before the pinks die causing pain and suffering.
The commercial process uses a powerful blast freezer which freezes them in seconds cuasing tiny ice crystals and killing the pinks in a matter of seconds.
The home office do have a list of acceptable killing methods for small rodents but most of these are for labs disposing of unwanted animals and tend to make a mess of the pink. The only method that fits the bill for our perpose is a quick flick to the top of the head. This needs to be strong enough to destroy the brain but not so hard that you squish the pinks head.

Once fur begins to grow, the babies lose the ability to shut down and can be safely euthanised using a CO2 gas chamber.

If you look back through the posts on this section there are a lot that cover all this in depth and show how to make a gas chamber.

Gordon Glasson
FBH VC


----------



## Seira (Apr 13, 2009)

It is my understanding that you can also just squeeze behind their head (around their neck) and push the head forward and it breaks their neck. I've never tried this myself but a friend used to use this method in a lab. She did say to be careful though because if you squeeze too hard, the head will pop off :gasp:


----------



## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

I've read that a hard flick to the back of the head should be enough at that age to kill a pink. Basically, anything that causes destruction of the skull is the best way of doing it.
But yeah, freezing whilst still alive is inhumane.


----------



## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Once their eyes are open, I use the CO2 chamber.

Up to that point I use a 'no fail/no miss' equivalent of the 'flick' method.


I kneel on my kitchen floor and place the mouse/rat on my palm belly down. Then, in one quick motion, I raise my hand, flip it over and throw/slam the animal down hard onto the ceramic tiles. As it started belly down on my upturned hand, as I turn my hand over, it is the back of the head that hits the ground first.

That method has never failed for me and I've never missed the ground.


----------



## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

I need to say something here...

I breed rats for pet and show so obv i dont kill them for reptile bait but i can tell you that co2 is an awfull way to die... its so bad that hitler stopped using it! It causes the animal to have the equivilent to a massive and painfull astma attack.... living with a chronic astmatic i know how bad this is. Best gas for euthing is Argon. It causes the animal to go dizzy, then out of it before it does its work... no panic, no pain and no awfull smell.

Kaz


----------



## kingkelly (May 14, 2012)

Im sorry but that's not right I've read countless studies which state CO2 is humane for rodent euthanasia. Argon actually has a worse effect on rats especially and can often cause seizures. The main thing is a high concentration of Co2 and to have a couple of holes at the top of the chamber to allow the oxygen to escape making the Co2 more effective.

Co2 would have been far too humane to be used by Hitler and carbon monoxide or cyanide was often used in the gas chambers and the packed in as many as they could which made the process longer and more horrific!


----------



## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

teasel said:


> I need to say something here...
> 
> I breed rats for pet and show so obv i dont kill them for reptile bait but i can tell you that co2 is an awfull way to die... its so bad that hitler stopped using it! It causes the animal to have the equivilent to a massive and painfull astma attack.... living with a chronic astmatic i know how bad this is. Best gas for euthing is Argon. It causes the animal to go dizzy, then out of it before it does its work... no panic, no pain and no awfull smell.
> 
> Kaz


*PLEASE DO NOT USE ARGON GAS.* 
It works in a very different way to CO2 and far from stopping suffering it actually prolongs it.

I did some research on all this a few years ago for the FBH. I spoke with vets and lab people and got all the correct information from the Home Office. We needed the right answers to give to DEFRA durring the discussions on the Animal Welfare Bill.
The next post is a section of that study.

Gordon Glasson
FBH VC


----------



## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

*HUMANE KILLING OF RODENTS FOR SNAKE FOOD.*
The great majority of snakes kept by hobbyists are rodent eaters and it is this group of animals that many hobbyists turn to when producing their own home grown supply of snake food. Once the rodents have reached the appropriate size for feeding the hobbyist needs to euthanise them. This must be done as humanly as possible within the constraints of UK legislation. 
Not surprisingly there is currently no specific legislation that covers the slaughter of rodents by private breeders. We can however look to the *Guidance Notes on the Licensing and Training of Slaughtermen* issued by the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) and to the *Codes of Practice for the Humane Killing of Animals Under Schedule 1 to the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 *issued by the Home Office for guidance on what the UK Government expects of anyone involved in the private, non commercial slaughter of animals.


the Guidance Notes on the Licensing and Training of Slaughtermen states that under UK law any one slaughtering a farm animal for commercial purposes in a recognised slaughter house must be trained and licenced to do so but the law also allows exemptions to this rule for those people that choose to rear and slaughter animals for their own use at home. It is under 3 of these exemptions that the hobbyist rodent breeder finds their activities covered.
*(DEFRA) Animal welfare: Guidance Note on the Licensing and Training of Slaughtermen
Exemptions 
*3. A licence is *not *required for the following operations: 

 Emergency slaughter or killing, where the animal must be killed immediately


 Slaughter or killing by the owner of an animal for his private consumption (when slaughter takes place elsewhere than in a slaughterhouse or knacker's yard)


Slaughter or killing for a non-commercial purpose ("commercial" is defined in the Regulations)
The Codes of Practice for the Humane Killing of Animals Under Schedule 1 to the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 also states;

2. The Legislation
2.1 Killing a protected animal (as in an animal covered by the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986) for a scientific purpose at a designated establishment does not require a licence if a method listed in schedule 1, appropriate to the animal is used. However, if another method is used, the killing is a regulated procedure and requires personal and project licence authority. 

Basically from these two pieces of information we can see that it is acceptable and legal to slaughter home produced rodents for your own private use as long as an accepted method of slaughter listed in schedule 1 of the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 is used. However the selling of any excess stock onto other hobbyists or retail outlets would make for a commercial enterprise and it is recommended that anyone wishing to sell excess stock contact DEFRA for advise on current legal requirements.

*Recommended methods of slaughtering rodents
Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, schedule 1

*As already mentioned above, under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 there is a selection of acceptable humane slaughter methods under schedule 1 that can be used (with a little basic training) by the home producer to slaughter rodents for his/her own personal use. The following three methods are the most appropriate for home use;

*1) Dislocation of the neck*
Dislocation of the neck appropriate for rodents up to 500 grams, Rabbits up to 1kg and birds up to 3kg.
The aim should be to carry out a swift, complete dislocation of the neck at the level of cervical vertebrae 1 to 3. This causes massive injury to the brain stem and spinal chord with immediate loss of consciousness. Neck dislocation is a straightforward method of killing small mammals and birds. 
Not really a suitable method for use on very young rodents due to their small size but a very efficient method for use with sub adult animals and above but can become time-consuming and monotonous when large numbers of animals need to be slaughtered. 

*2) Concussion of the brain *
Concussion of the brain by striking the cranium: appropriate for rodents and rabbits up to 1kg and birds up to 250 grams (with destruction of the brain before the return of consciousness).
Striking the cranium means either striking the cranium against a solid object (e.g. the edge of a bench) or striking the cranium with a blunt instrument. The concussive blow should be directed at the cranium with sufficient force to cause immediate loss of consciousness and probably death. After concussion, death should be confirmed by neck dislocation. 
This method is particularly recommended for killing very young pre fur rodents which have the ability to survive in low oxygen atmospheres (such as the conditions found in the nest when the mother is sitting tight on the brood). A sharp blow to the head at this early stage of development brings about instant death, this can be confirmed by watching for the colour change of the skin, once dead the skin of the animal should quickly fade from pink to blue grey in colour.
This method can also be used on all other sizes of rodents but again, as with dislocation of the neck it can become time-consuming and monotonous when large numbers of animals need to be slaughtered. 

*3) Exposure to Carbon Dioxide gas*
Exposure to Carbon Dioxide gas in a rising concentration: appropriate for rodents, rabbits and birds up to 1.5kg.
Inhalation of higher concentrations of carbon dioxide (to be avoided) produces a slightly irritant or fizzing sensation in the nasal mucous membrane as the gas goes into solution. 
A slowly rising blood concentration has a direct effect on the brain eventualy producing unconsciousness but first stimulating then depressing the rate of breathing. The initial stimulation of breathing enhances the uptake of the gas. Unconsciousness is due to a direct narcotic effect of carbon dioxide rather than hypoxia resulting from a lowered oxygen concentration in the inspired air. A controllable, metered source of carbon dioxide gas should be used and not the solid material (dry ice). Induction of narcosis is faster in the smaller animals and therefore causes less distress. For this reason it is only allowed in schedule 1 for rodents, rabbits and birds up to 1.5kg body weight.
Animals should be left in the chamber until rigor mortis sets in or removed and death ensured by neck dislocation.
With the exception of very young pre fur rodents which have the ability to survive in low oxygen atmospheres (see 2, Concussion of the brain for details on the slaughter of very young rodents ) this is by far the best, least hands on and quickest method of slaughtering rodents both singularly and in greater numbers. 

*BUILDING AND USING YOUR GAS CHAMBER*
A simple gas chamber can be made from a clear plastic box with clip on lid. Carbon dioxide bottles and regulators can be purchased from DIY , car care and welding stores. 
Make two holes in the lid of the box, one to put the gas hose in through and the other to let excess air out of. 
The animals are placed in the empty chamber and the carbon dioxide gas, being heavier than air, is slowly let in to accumulate at the lower levels. Small animals become unconscious quickly as the rising gas concentration reaches about 30 per cent and they die when it reaches approximately 70 per cent. As already mentioned animals should be left in the chamber until rigor mortis sets in or removed and death ensured by neck dislocation.

*MYTHS AND RUMOURS*
Despite myths and rumours to the contrary, even when the gas chamber is being used in a tiny space the carbon dioxide escaping from it poses no risk to the operator. CO2 being heavier than air acts just like water, spilling down to the lowest levels and spreading out across the floor in a similar way to a puddle of water. Even in a small air tight room, you would require a considerable amount of carbon dioxide before the levels of gas at head height reached 30 per cent. 
There is also no risk to the snakes health when fed on mice killed by Carbon dioxide inhalation. Carbon dioxide only has a narcotic effect when inhaled for several breaths at 30 per cent concentration or above and is totally harmless when swallowed. These two facts are the reason that we can safely consume fizzy drinks without passing out.

*MAKING CO2*
Carbon dioxide can be made by mixing certain commonly found kitchen chemicals together. However the FBH does not recommend using gas made in this way. The quality of gas made this way is poor and it may contain impurities that could cause suffering to the rodents being slaughtered and risk the health of the snakes that consume the rodents.

*TRAINING*
It is recommended, by the FBH, by DEFRA and by the Home Office that any one using any of the three methods of slaughter discussed above, first get some hands on training by some body already fully competent in these methods of slaughter.


----------



## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

thank you :2thumb:


----------

