# HabiStat or Microclimate thermostats?



## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

Which do you prefer and why?


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## repkid (Nov 30, 2007)

I think HabiStat are better as I have 4 set ups controlled with HabiStat thermostats and they all stay within 3F of what I want it to be.
But I have 1 set up with a microclimate thermostat and the temp has a difference of 11F of what I want, it goes from 84F to 95F when set at 92F???


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## reptiles_galore (Aug 13, 2008)

micro climates are better value for money, usually more accurate (^^^ must be unlucky)
also there not so easily adjusted by accident which means no accident overheating

always a good point.


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## linda60 (Jan 14, 2008)

I prefer habistat,I have found them to be accurate and more easy to ajust,also the cables are alot longer than on the microclimate and this makes easier to use I am using all different types of habistat except pulse stat and am pleased with all of them,I am using a microcilmate mat stat and a day/night dimmer I have no problems with them but have not found them to be quite as acurate as the habistats,I know microclimate are cheaper but I would still go with habistats.Try this site for habistats http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ACEAQUA


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## Fly (May 27, 2008)

I'm indifferent. Neither of them are particularly good value, the components that make them up can be bought for about £2 and assembled with the most basic electronic knowledge. I think there should be more companies out there, to get some sensibility in the market. The first one that brings out a fully modular, usb interfaced stat/lighting/misting/humidity system will get my money and be raised to excellence in my mind. Not that difficult, but needs time and monetary investment.


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## Juzza12 (Jun 12, 2008)

Go on dragons den with the idea lol


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## Fly (May 27, 2008)

Nah, I don't really need investment capital, I need the time!!!


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## Plutino (Aug 5, 2007)

far as I know, habistat = microclimate from 10+ years ago. When the founders of microclimate had personal difficulties (I think one died and the business didn't progress?), habistat stole the technology and has been using it ever since, without updating it, hence the 'fail closed circuit' problem they had a few years back. In recent years microclimate has begun to build back up it's reputation, but habistat is just the name people know. Are you comparing apples to oranges with the stats or are they the same models? IE pulse habistat to pulse microclimate, or are you comparing like dimmer habistat to matstat microclimate? I must admit I haven't compared them directly, but this is the information I was given, and I wasn't told not to repeat it so I assume it's ok to post, I'll remove it if it's slanderous. I haven't talked to Habistat directly.

I would agree that a modular system would be cool, but didn't someone try selling something like that on the forums a while back but it ended up costing more than the thermostats from the named brands?


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## Fly (May 27, 2008)

The markup for them is enormous, if they spent less time rebranding reflector lamps and fish tank bulbs and more time in R & D they could produce a product that would cost about the same as the current stats but be infinitely upgradeable. Each upgrade making them money. Once you have the base product you could only upgrade to the same brand. That requires foresight and investment though, someone will do it, just a matter of time.


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## odyssey (Oct 23, 2006)

i voted microclimate. the main reason for me choosing them rather than habistat was due to me having 4 young kids. the habistats are too easy for little fingers to fiddle with the temperatures.


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## peterf (Jul 27, 2007)

Interesting ideas about many aspects of thermostat origins and manufacture.
I would be pleased to hear where all the components to make a thermostat can be purchased for £2 as the packaging costs more than that! 
I would suggest the author may want to cost the manufacture of a range of thermostats with all the independent testing and cost multiplyers that go with the manufacture of any consumer goods. I would be interested to hear the Dragons suggestions on their investment and cashflow and profit sugegstions in such an idea! 

Habistats have actually been made for 20 Years now, in the UK. Yes there was another couple of makers that have come and gone over this period and Microclimate have been out there throughout this period.
Habistat did not copy Microclimate nor steal their thermostats and I would suggest that the author of that post edits their view and tries to be more factual.

Temperature control, be it proportional or straight forward on/ off, is fairly well established technology and circuitry. Yes, it is dated but it is also ultra effective and reliable and these must be primary factors in the requirments from your thermostat.
With a 5 Year guarantee and units even repaired way beyond their guarantee, Habistats have built a terrific reputation for both customer care and reliability. 
I guess that why around 1000 units are sold every week, all over the World and Habistats are manufactured and sold in some countries under different companies brand names.

Every Habistat is manually tested and calibrated on a test bed before it leaves us. Inaccuracies are usually down to inappropriate size or type of heater, misplacement of the probe or ventilation issues.

Not sure what the "fail closed circuit' problem they had a few years back" is referring to. Depending on what component fails, will depend of whether the thermostat fails on or off. The only 100% safeguard against that happening is another totally seperate temperature control circuit, so in essence another thermostat.

So, yes, the technology is old, but don't forget- it is affordable, it is tried and tested and, just because something uses an old idea in its finction doesn't make it bad. Sometimes things are "updated" for all the wrong reasons.

Having said that, however the future is looking interesting.

New technologies are out there that need to be encompassed. The problem with reptile thermostat manufacture is that it isn't, in true manufacturing terms, big business. Software developement doesn't come cheap but anything is possible but at a cost.

If you take a look at any scientific instrument manufacture, the prices of similar proportional units are very expensive. Limited sales means expensive unit costs in developement that have to ammortised over unit sales.

Habistats are made by people that keep reptiles, so their inadequacies are known. We have designed a new unit that will encompase all the reliability and functions, that we, as keepers, want.

You will see a new unit out before the end of this year and, I think it's fair to say, you should be impressed. 
The unit is now having software fine tuning being done and will be announced soon.

Watch this space.
Finally, a big thank you to all the Habistat supporters out there that have used our products for many years. We hope you continue to entrust the wellbeing of your animals to us.


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## Adam W (Apr 21, 2008)

I was say habistat because it looks like a more solid product, they are always accurate and have two dimming ones and a spare twin one for heatmats which i used to use for snakes. They work really well and are spot on accurate, i think that the microclimate ones look a bit cheaply made to lat but thats just in my opinion. Adam:2thumb:


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## Ben.M (Mar 2, 2008)

I say habistat, i have 2 dimming and 1 mat, the dimming ones stay within 1 degree of the right temp and the mat within 5, i have a microclimate matstat which varies around 10 degrees, and habistat look better 2 :2thumb:


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

Fly said:


> I'm indifferent. Neither of them are particularly good value, the components that make them up can be bought for about £2 and assembled with the most basic electronic knowledge. I think there should be more companies out there, to get some sensibility in the market. The first one that brings out a fully modular, usb interfaced stat/lighting/misting/humidity system will get my money and be raised to excellence in my mind. Not that difficult, but needs time and monetary investment.



You will be interested to hear about what I'm working on so far then !

I have a lighting controller, with programmable sunrise/sunset/moon lights (white/red+orange/blue respectively). There is a UV control channel, a ventilation control channel (9 periods per day, up to 90 minutes at a time), and a misting channel (9 periods a day, upto 90 seconds at a time).

I have a 2 line LCD display, iPod-like scrolling menu items and am considering incorporating temperature control.

I'm just programming the final lighting control stuff and nearly ready to test the lighting, so if anyone is interested let me know, and I might put a video on Youtube.

This is just a project for my own sake, but would consider making it completely Opensource.

Chris


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

peterf said:


> Interesting ideas about many aspects of thermostat origins and manufacture.
> I would be pleased to hear where all the components to make a thermostat can be purchased for £2 as the packaging costs more than that!
> I would suggest the author may want to cost the manufacture of a range of thermostats with all the independent testing and cost multiplyers that go with the manufacture of any consumer goods. I would be interested to hear the Dragons suggestions on their investment and cashflow and profit sugegstions in such an idea! .



I keep reading messages from people who say their habistat or Microclimate is more , or less, accurate than others.

I've quickly come to the conclusion that there are so many variables involved, such as the output power of the mat, the size of the vivarium, the heat loss from the vivarium and the position of the temperature sensor, to all conspire to produce differences from devices which should otherwise be able to cope with the task they are being given if they are used correctly.

Which brings me to my question, is there a source of information which people can reference which can give guidelines about the size of viv and the typical heating requirements, as well as how those requirements differ depending on if a mat or a lamp is used as the heat source ? Do you publish this sort of thing on your website ? I seem to have trouble finding such a guide but I know it would be very helpful to many people who are starting up.

Chris


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## reptiles-ink (Nov 4, 2006)

peterf said:


> I would be pleased to hear where all the components to make a thermostat can be purchased for £2 as the packaging costs more than that!


 
I have to agree with you there.
mains plug and socket, flex, case thats a good £2
then depending what type theres the torroid, thermistor, pot, resistors, capacitors, diodes, triac, i.c. etc
even buying in bulk from China you couldnt do it.


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

Fly said:


> I'm indifferent. Neither of them are particularly good value, the components that make them up can be bought for about £2 and assembled with the most basic electronic knowledge. I think there should be more companies out there, to get some sensibility in the market. The first one that brings out a fully modular, usb interfaced stat/lighting/misting/humidity system will get my money and be raised to excellence in my mind. Not that difficult, but needs time and monetary investment.



As an alternative for heating, I've set up an industrial PID controller. They're available on ebay for about £25. The one I have is one which I salvaged from some equipment eight years ago.

It does pulse proportional as standard. You can control the time period from 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 seconds which is adequate for any heater type, and it has a built in 0.5A relay, which means it can safely switch over 100W.

In P+I mode it is more capable of coping with sudden changes in temperature because it responds to the rate of change as much as it responds to the temperature difference between the setpoint and the actual temperature.

You normally have to spend a bit of time tuning the control loops for these things, but this one I have, made by Dynapar, even has a self tuning facility. I see there's a similar one on eBay now for £16.95(+p&p)

The only thing I needed to buy is a k-type thermocouple from Maplins , code N37CB, for a couple of pounds.

You would need to feel comfortable with wiring a plug to consider wiring one of these up, but they are avery accurate and competent type of controller, all usually backed by industrial strength warranties too.

If you have lots of vivs then they're definately the way forward, there's a 6 channel controller on Ebay now for £75. Thats one controller for 6 vivs.

If you need more power than the relay can provide, or don't like the almost inaudible click which the relay makes, most controllers have solid state relay, SSR, control outputs to enable you to wire up the controller to a more powerful SSR (also cheap on ebay)which could remotely switch as much power as you need, right up to the power limit of your household's supply. 

Chris


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## mick1 (Feb 24, 2007)

i prefer microclimate as i have one of these units and i like the fact it has an in built day and night magic eye i am not keen habistat as you have to pay extra if you want night temp control


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## Plutino (Aug 5, 2007)

Sorry Peter, I didn't mean to sound as negative as I suppose it came off in my other post. As you say, I should check my facts before posting and it was irresponsible of me to post without doing so, I suppose laziness can be blamed. Most of what I mentioned I had heard from a gentle old voice on the other end of the phone when dialing the number on the microclimate warranty insert, but as it was a phone conversation weeks(months now I guess) ago, and my memory is crap at the best of times, I probably didn't represent the story as well as I should have liked. I was under the impression from other posts on here that there was a problem a while back with thermostats failing in the on position, ie closed circuit, but I think it's more a case of when a part fails it fails, on or off, so just depends what state it was in at the time. I use Microclimate AND Habistat at home and at work, and really think it's down to personal preference. We sell both. As far as I know, the lines are similar, with microclimate also doing AHS's and Habistat doing more cooling stats? I look forward to the latest from Habistat and hope I haven't made an enemy. :blush: As you say, I can't be factual as this is all 2nd hand information. I think the problem was the word 'stole', but my impression was that microclimate had been first in it's reptile line, but because of family issues in this family run business, they didn't push their company forward until well after Habistat had become the market leader.



> I keep reading messages from people who say their habistat or Microclimate is more , or less, accurate than others.
> I've quickly come to the conclusion that there are so many variables involved, such as the output power of the mat, the size of the vivarium, the heat loss from the vivarium and the position of the temperature sensor, to all conspire to produce differences from devices which should otherwise be able to cope with the task they are being given if they are used correctly.
> 
> Which brings me to my question, is there a source of information which people can reference which can give guidelines about the size of viv and the typical heating requirements, as well as how those requirements differ depending on if a mat or a lamp is used as the heat source ? Do you publish this sort of thing on your website ? I seem to have trouble finding such a guide but I know it would be very helpful to many people who are starting up.
> ...


As you say, there are too many variables, the biggest one being ambient room temperature. The only guide I have seen is for the Microclimate AHS units, but I'd say that's only rough as well, your best bet is to ask a few people beforehand what they use in their similar sized enclosures to what you plan to use, set the electrics up with the viv in the room that it will be in permanently and test it for a few days before putting the animal in, adjusting accordingly.


Sorry for draggin up an old thread, have been away for 2 weeks.


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

Plutino said:


> As you say, there are too many variables, the biggest one being ambient room temperature. The only guide I have seen is for the Microclimate AHS units, but I'd say that's only rough as well, your best bet is to ask a few people beforehand what they use in their similar sized enclosures to what you plan to use, set the electrics up with the viv in the room that it will be in permanently and test it for a few days before putting the animal in, adjusting accordingly.
> 
> 
> Sorry for draggin up an old thread, have been away for 2 weeks.


Well I wondered if such a list doesn't exist already, but if it doesn't , wouldn't it be an excellent piece of information to make into a 'sticky' . That way, new keepers or people interested in starting out would have a rough idea of what to buy. I was just wondering how many peole have a small exoterra viv with an unecessarily large ceramic heater.
Not that it does too much harm if you have a heater which is a bit too lagre ecause it's good to get that extra margin. I was thinking about the heat mats more than anything else though, what size of viv can be held warm with a 12W mat, with an ambient temp of 20C for example ?

Perhaps these are just things people try to find with trial and error, after realising that the mercury in the thermometer isn't going to reach the right temperature they nip out and buy another mat to replace the one which was too small.


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## RICK 13 (Jan 14, 2008)

microclimate everytime.:2thumb:
cheers rick :bash:


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## luke123 (Apr 13, 2008)

habistat, you get a 5yr guarentee, so that shows how sure they are of their product!


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## wilsonr66 (Nov 10, 2007)

As with many of you i have several vivs, to keeps costs down i use each dimmer stat to control a pair of vivs. Obviously i would prefer to control vivs individually but this would cost a small fortune.

I would like to purchase or build multi channel stats which could safely control a series of vivs. Maybe a base stat which you can add controllers.
If anyone has any ideas let me know.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

habistat. i have both. and the habistat keeps temps better and is easier to use. they may be a bit dearer depending on where you get them, but cheapest isnt always best. im in the process of changing both racks to double habistat stats. one plug but two probes etc. these are great if you need multiple plugs, and each bit of the double stat can be set to diff temps.


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## fixitsan (Apr 15, 2008)

wilsonr66 said:


> As with many of you i have several vivs, to keeps costs down i use each dimmer stat to control a pair of vivs. Obviously i would prefer to control vivs individually but this would cost a small fortune.
> 
> I would like to purchase or build multi channel stats which could safely control a series of vivs. Maybe a base stat which you can add controllers.
> If anyone has any ideas let me know.


If you are able to wire up a mains plug, confidently, you could probably wire up industrial controllers with ease. They tend to be pulse operation so they aren't great for lights, only mats and ceramics and other non-light heat sources.

If you don't mind gentle clicking noises in the background you can use them straight out of the box, otherwise adding another electronic relay at just a couple of pounds more will make the system completely silent.

I wrote up the process I went through to wire one up, which isn't as complicated as it may seem from the number of terminals available, youc an ignore most of the connections. The file is here
http://www.mediafire.com/?exmkdwdcn1z "Pid Wiring"

I often see multichannel ones on ebay, requiring just a 90x45mm cutout and capable of independently controlling six heaters, which sell for about £70 +p+p.

If you need any guidance with regards to wiring or setting up I'll do what i can to help.

Chris


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