# Leopard Gecko regurgitating food?



## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

My year old leo has been with me for 6 months now, and for about a month I've had problems with feeding. She's been eating and pooping but not as much as she should be, and recently she's just refused food altogether.
When I first got my lizard I kept her on sand. I know, I know. It's really bad for them and can cause lots of problems. As soon as I found out about sand I switched immediately to eco-earth, but when her condition didn't improve I threw out the Eco earth and now I'm using paper towels. But it was already too late, my gecko had acute impaction and I had to spend $150 at an animal clinic for an x-ray and examination. At the vet my gecko, Lucy, received 20 minute warm water soaks every hour (or that's what they told me, anyway) for 5 days. They called me on the fifth day to tell me she pooped, and I was free to pick her up.
It's been about 2 weeks out of the vet and even though I've kept her on paper towels, given her enough heat, and warm soaks (almost) everyday, she has gone back to refusing food, not pooping, etc. I did find a rather large turd in her tank one day, but that was followed by another tiny one the following day. Now she's refused food 3 days in a row. Maybe I'm not giving her enough soaks?

Does anyone have any advice on what could help in this matter? I'm new to this website and only made an account for this post, I'd be glad to tell you any info you need to know about Lucy.

P.s. the last time I fed her she ate 2 crickets, regurgitated 1, or at least I think so. Attached is a picture of the crime scene. Is this lizard barf?


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

I would look at checking all your temperatures and how you are providing hydration.

Sand alone is not enough to cause impaction, impaction is a symptom of incorrect environment as a whole.

Leos naturally live out on scrubland, dry stony dusty areas, grasses, grit etc... Have a look at the natural geography of pakistan (which is where they are from)

How are you providing heat for it, hydration (food/humid hide/water supply) what supplementation, what lighting, everything you can give about how its set up and how you care for it.

Impaction is something that is widely misunderstood, people point at loose substrate and blame that but its simply not true.
If the animal is being kept on something that recreates something like their natural habitat, have proper heat provision, good varied food supply and a well maintained environment its very, very uncommon.

Its when you combine factors like inadequate heat, or dehydration, inappropriate food etc that their digestion then struggles, and that opens the window up to the possibility of impaction, regardless of substrate. 

Of course, using completely unsuitable substrates can also do it, for example, bark chippings in with a desert dwelling species or dangerous substrates like corn husks that are difficult to digest and absorb moisture and swell in the gut.


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that your Leo has not been well. You have received a very good reply from Azastral. Can you let us know a few things so that we can try to help. What are the temperatures in the viv - at ground level - warm and cool sides -and how are you measuring them? How often are you feeding the Leo? My adults only get fed twice a week - more often and they are not very interested. Did the Vet test for parasites? The pic you have attached is not regurge - one of the crickets has moulted and this is the old skin. She should not need soaks now - this will stress her and stress can cause feeding problems. She IS eating because she is pooing. Keep a watch on her weight - if she loses weight then there is a problem.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Azastral said:


> I would look at checking all your temperatures and how you are providing hydration.
> 
> Sand alone is not enough to cause impaction, impaction is a symptom of incorrect environment as a whole.
> 
> ...


The veterinarian who took the x-ray told me that there was a good amount of sand in her belly. When I had her on sand and earth I was giving her crickets, but not always by hand. I assume she was ingesting substrate when she pounced for the crickets. Here's my setup:

I have her in a 10 gallon tank with UTH on about 1/3 of the tank floor. It gets up to 100F degrees frequently on the heat side, but normally stays around 90-95F during the day. I don't have any thermostats or humidifiers or anything, I just use a cheap little ZooMed thermometer they sell at the local pet store to measure my temperatures. If being too hot is a cause of impaction this might be the problem because by midday the temperature in my house gets up to the mid 80s. 
(Sorry about the Fahrenheit, I realize this is a UK website and I would convert it for you but I am posting from my phone)
The cold side of my tank is unregulated and can be anywhere between 85 degrees and 75 degrees. I have 3 hides: one hot, 2 cold. I know I need a moist hide, and there's room for me to put one in the tank but I don't know exactly what to use and when to use it. 
There is a water bowl in the tank, and she drinks regularly; I have to refill it at least once a week. 

I feed her a diet of crickets (the most I've gotten her to eat in one feeding is 4) dusted with supplemental calcium, as well as a multivitamin mixture. I normally only dust the crickets with 1 kind of supplement at a time, and both vitamin powders were suggested to me by the pet store. (If I had them with me I'd take a picture of each, I can do that once I'm back home). The crickets I use are never larger than the width of my reptile's head. 

The tank is never in direct sunlight, and I try to make sure my curtains are blocking enough of the light so she's not being exposed to too much brightness. I don't use any heat lamps or anything, and if I need to see into the tank at night I use desk lamps.

One final thing: my lizard is bloated. It's definitely not natural how fat she is because she takes food so sparsely. Luckily her tail is still pretty plump, but I have noticed some slight shrinking. One thing the vet told me was that massaging their bellies can help move impacted substrate along, but Lucy doesn't seem to keen to let me do that.

When I have the opportunity I will take pictures of my tank and the vitamin supplements I use and I will post them in this thread. As I said I am posting from my phone so I apologise for any typos or odd wording.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

rowanATX said:


> The veterinarian who took the x-ray told me that there was a good amount of sand in her belly. When I had her on sand and earth I was giving her crickets, but not always by hand. I assume she was ingesting substrate when she pounced for the crickets. Here's my setup:
> 
> I have her in a 10 gallon tank with UTH on about 1/3 of the tank floor. It gets up to 100F degrees frequently on the heat side, but normally stays around 90-95F during the day. I don't have any thermostats or humidifiers or anything, I just use a cheap little ZooMed thermometer they sell at the local pet store to measure my temperatures. If being too hot is a cause of impaction this might be the problem because by midday the temperature in my house gets up to the mid 80s.
> (Sorry about the Fahrenheit, I realize this is a UK website and I would convert it for you but I am posting from my phone)
> ...


You MUST use a thermostat- this is essential! & use a timer to let the viv cool down at night- they don't need 24/7 heat, in Pakistan it can get quite cold at night.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

Large amounts of sand can be a sign that they are trying to self-supplement as they are eating the sand to try and get missing minerals etc that arent present in what they are being fed. They dont see it as sand, they just see it as earth/dirt which will have a whole range of minerals etc in it. They can of course pick up some sand if its stuck to the insect or they are clumsy hunters, but this would normally just pass through if they are healthy and the environmental parameters are correct.

I would be keen to look at a substrate mix of sand and soil and a load of pebbles/stones scattered about alongside some larger flat stones. Pack the sand/soil mix down pretty hard and give it a misting occationally to stop it completely drying out.
Also be aware that the warm end should be around 90F, 100F is too high really for a Leo, and cool temps of around 75F (Night temps of around 65/70F) Thermostats are VITAL, those temps really do need to be controlled properly.

The lack of a moist hide (humid hide) is a bit worrying, and would be a prime suspect for me as to how the impaction has occurred, if indeed self-supplementing too the two together are a dangerous mix. Humidity is pretty important with Leos, and the viv itself should be around 35/40% in the cool end of the viv with a humid hide in there always.

Humid hides are pretty simple, just a hide thats then lined with something like sphagnum moss that will hold moisture. 

You say the pet store recommended the supplements you use? Personally i would double check any information a pet store gives you, the amount of times the info is either incomplete or outright wrong would seriously alarm you.... There are some great ones, but for each one of those theres probably ten horrific ones too.

My sister has a Leo and has had great results with repashy superfood calcium plus (although personally i favour the arcadia supplements but i keep bearded dragons)

I would also look at seeing if theres anyway you can add variety to what you are feeding, crickets alone is not a great diet for them and it would also support the idea that she could be self-supplementing as its a limited supply of nutrition. Maybe try adding things like mealworms, small locusts, dubia roach nymphs and perhaps some kind of prepared gecko feed like repashy grub pie (broken into smaller bits) or similar.

As for the direct sunlight, Leo's are most active around dawn and dusk, often sleeping during the day hidden away in a hide or covered area, i wouldnt be too concerned about natural light getting in there, if anything, its a positive thing, however the temps do need to be right, i would look at getting a proper thermometer and remember there is a difference between surface temps and air temps, leos absorb heat mainly from surfaces and this directly impacts their digestion.

You need something like an infra red thermometer to get surface temperature readings (can be bought pretty cheaply online)

Any water bowl should have its water changed on a regular basis, not just once a week, so i would look at trying to do that more often if you can.

Bloating can indeed be a sign of parasites, so the fecal test is definitely a good idea, but if theres still pooping going on i would agree its probably not impaction (but still worth checking out).
My knowledge on Leos is limited, but is it also possible that shes gravid? (egg bearing)


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

I was also wondering if she could be gravid. Unfertile eggs (called slugs) can be difficult to lay and may be retained - this would give a bloated look.

And a thermostat is essential. The temps are too high.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Azastral said:


> Large amounts of sand can be a sign that they are trying to self-supplement as they are eating the sand to try and get missing minerals etc that arent present in what they are being fed. They dont see it as sand, they just see it as earth/dirt which will have a whole range of minerals etc in it. They can of course pick up some sand if its stuck to the insect or they are clumsy hunters, but this would normally just pass through if they are healthy and the environmental parameters are correct.
> 
> I would be keen to look at a substrate mix of sand and soil and a load of pebbles/stones scattered about alongside some larger flat stones. Pack the sand/soil mix down pretty hard and give it a misting occationally to stop it completely drying out.
> Also be aware that the warm end should be around 90F, 100F is too high really for a Leo, and cool temps of around 75F (Night temps of around 65/70F) Thermostats are VITAL, those temps really do need to be controlled properly.
> ...


First off, I'd like to say thank you to everyone who replied to this topic. I realize it's not very good of me as a pet owner to have to ask the internet for help. I should have done more research in the first place, and I'm grateful people are willing to help me when I could've just done it correctly in the first place. For some reason leos seem like more of a popular pet in the UK than in Texas, where I live. But enough excuses.

I'm going to the store today to pick up one of those fancy digital thermostats so I can control the heat and monitor the humidity levels. Any suggestions?









This is a picture of my setup. The hot side is on the left. All plants are fake and supposedly safe for reptiles. The log on the cold end is kinda large, I'm planning on putting a humid hide in there. What can I use besides moss? I've heard wet paper towels are good, or even wet eco earth. And where in the tank should I put it?

I misspoke when I said I refill the water once a week. I actually refill the water whenever I see she's drunk some of it, and I change the water completely at least once a week. I will start changing it daily now.









Here's a picture of my bloated little guy. The brownish stain to the right of her isn't poop, it's just a little vitamin powder that fell off of a cricket. Right now I have crickets and waxworms. She refused both the last time i fed her. I'll see about getting some mealworms and maybe roaches to spice up the variety.

I've suspected eggs as being the cause of her bloating. Her belly doesn't have any dark spots, and the biggest part is pinkish. I'll try to get a picture.








This one with flash. (I'm sorry little dude)









Hopefully those picture are informative.

These are the vitamins I'm using:








The "for all reptiles and amphibians" is concerning me. I want something specialized for the needs of a Leo.

This is the thermometer I've been using. Cheap little plastic thing that probably isn't very accurate. It's resting on the floor of the tank itself.









After reading through the replies and making some changes, my tank looks like this now:








Took out the big log, put in the humid hide I just made using tupperware and paper towels, and added a smaller log. 

I have calcium in the warm hide's built-in food dish, and occasionally I see her licking some of it up. Should I get another dish for the multivitamins, or can I mix them? 

The next time I find a poop I will take it up to the vet and see if they can run some tests on it. But as I said, she's not pooping regularly, and it's been a couple of days since her last bowel movement. What else besides bloating is a sign of parasites?

I know these are a lot of questions, thank you to everyone who responded.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Sorry, the links didn't want to work.
In order:
https://goo.gl/photos/vLefnoLefy49rPLp8
https://goo.gl/photos/3uhF6fuDDmHkHXjPA
https://goo.gl/photos/2DRvdUmBYpRn3rgk6
https://goo.gl/photos/Cxu749FMbJX8rXsm7
https://goo.gl/photos/SbEdhGTxhxLYKbV76
https://goo.gl/photos/pd9teEg5MepMB9F7A
https://goo.gl/photos/4Jnv39MNuhg3K6kj8


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

jools said:


> Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that your Leo has not been well. You have received a very good reply from Azastral. Can you let us know a few things so that we can try to help. What are the temperatures in the viv - at ground level - warm and cool sides -and how are you measuring them? How often are you feeding the Leo? My adults only get fed twice a week - more often and they are not very interested. Did the Vet test for parasites? The pic you have attached is not regurge - one of the crickets has moulted and this is the old skin. She should not need soaks now - this will stress her and stress can cause feeding problems. She IS eating because she is pooing. Keep a watch on her weight - if she loses weight then there is a problem.


Thank you. I've taken the advice of Azastral and replied to him, maybe you have some input on that. I feed my gecko about every 3-4 days, so yeah 2 times a week. The vet did not test for parasites but they did do a basic examination and an x-ray, so I assume they would've noticed something. 

It's good to know that was just cricket skin. That means she ate it when it was nice and soft. She's ignoring about 75% of the food i give her, and barely pooping. She weighs 51 grams, I'm not sure if that's too light.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

I called the vet and got them to email me the photographs. She said, "uhh It'll take a while but I'll try to get that done today," so I'm not too confident on when those pics will get to me. I'll post them in this thread if I get them.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Here are the x-rays.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5pPNkS91936UlQxVHVJNFhWUEJwT05PcUlBYUdPRl92UVlz/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5pPNkS91936Y1NrbkM2XzZTSVpvemkwS3RiN0FvbmhCQzVj/view?usp=sharing

I was able to find a thermometer/humidity guage at the store, no thermostat though. They had day/night timers, but no thermostats that automatically sense heat levels. Any suggestions on what to use?


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Azastral said:


> Large amounts of sand can be a sign that they are trying to self-supplement as they are eating the sand to try and get missing minerals etc that arent present in what they are being fed. They dont see it as sand, they just see it as earth/dirt which will have a whole range of minerals etc in it. They can of course pick up some sand if its stuck to the insect or they are clumsy hunters, but this would normally just pass through if they are healthy and the environmental parameters are correct.
> 
> I would be keen to look at a substrate mix of sand and soil and a load of pebbles/stones scattered about alongside some larger flat stones. Pack the sand/soil mix down pretty hard and give it a misting occationally to stop it completely drying out.
> Also be aware that the warm end should be around 90F, 100F is too high really for a Leo, and cool temps of around 75F (Night temps of around 65/70F) Thermostats are VITAL, those temps really do need to be controlled properly.
> ...


So I installed the hygrometer, it reads 43-45%. I have the probe in the middle of the tank suction cupped to the back wall. (This is after I put the humid hide in my tank) What is a good way to adjust the humidity of the vivarium itself? I have a spray bottle of water. And as for the humid hide, how humid should it be in there?


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

rowanATX said:


> Here are the x-rays.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5pPNkS91936UlQxVHVJNFhWUEJwT05PcUlBYUdPRl92UVlz/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5pPNkS91936Y1NrbkM2XzZTSVpvemkwS3RiN0FvbmhCQzVj/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I was able to find a thermometer/humidity guage at the store, no thermostat though. They had day/night timers, but no thermostats that automatically sense heat levels. Any suggestions on what to use?


A thermostat is the only option. I find it incredible that any reptile shop or even a general pet shop that deals in reptiles doesn't sell themostats- it must be a well bad shop!:gasp::bash: Can you not get one online?


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

wilkinss77 said:


> A thermostat is the only option. I find it incredible that any reptile shop or even a general pet shop that deals in reptiles doesn't sell themostats- it must be a well bad shop!:gasp::bash: Can you not get one online?


Ok so does this work?


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

wilkinss77 said:


> it must be a well bad shop!:gasp::bash: Can you not get one online?



From the link he's then posted, it looks like its Petsmart....


Widely recognised to literally be one of the worst petstores in existance.


Amazon is a better petshop (like 100 times better), and its not even a petshop...


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Azastral said:


> From the link he's then posted, it looks like its Petsmart....
> 
> 
> Widely recognised to literally be one of the worst petstores in existance.
> ...


Well duh I'd buy it off Amazon. I would never buy from Petsmart because I know how notoriously bad they are at treating animals. It was literally the first link I could find on google of something that regulated temps. Besides the petsmart thing, is this about what I need?


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

rowanATX said:


> Well duh I'd buy it off Amazon. I would never buy from Petsmart because I know how notoriously bad they are at treating animals. It was literally the first link I could find on google of something that regulated temps. Besides the petsmart thing, is this about what I need?



It should do the job, you would need to use a socket timer (or similar) so it turns off at night though.

I would personally favor something like a habistat or microclimate one (although recent experience with microclimate has me leaning towards habistat....long story)

The thermostat is a very important bit of kit, and its something to buy a quality one of, home-brand ones or cheaper brands are often unreliable, look for one that guarantees its product for at least 3 years. That being said, zoo med tend to be reasonable and it does come with a year guarantee. You would probably expect to pay double for a habistat one (but then theres a five year guarantee and a very high quality bit of kit).

I seem to remember you saying you use a heat mat? you will want a "pulse" thermostat rather than a "dimming" thermostat.


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## Keeboard (Jan 17, 2016)

I recommend dry eco earth or textured tile for a substrate. I wouldn't put any supplements in the tank as your Leo could overdose


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Keeboard said:


> I recommend dry eco earth or textured tile for a substrate. I wouldn't put any supplements in the tank as your Leo could overdose


Not tile of any kind, tbh- leos need a substrate they can dig around in.


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## Keeboard (Jan 17, 2016)

Hence why I recommended Eco earth as well. Tile conducts heat well (so it can be put underneath the Eco earth).


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

Azastral said:


> It should do the job, you would need to use a socket timer (or similar) so it turns off at night though.
> 
> I would personally favor something like a habistat or microclimate one (although recent experience with microclimate has me leaning towards habistat....long story)
> 
> ...


Thank you so much this is really good info to have. Lucy is my first reptile and it's hard to find a lot of information, especially when you have people giving you bad information, like pet store employees. And my guidebook on keeping them was terrible, never told me about sand impaction or humid hides.


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## rowanATX (Jun 8, 2017)

I ordered a Zilla thermostat and a day/night timer. In the meantime I'm keeping a close eye on the temperatures of my tank and unplugging every time it gets too hot. It's 96% outside and I have poor insulation in only my room, I feel like it wouldn't be too bad if I left it unplugged while I am in my room on the computer for short periods of time, like when she's just chillin in her humid hide.
Speaking of which, she's been using her humid hide SO much since I put it in there, so glad I did.


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