# GTP for begginers yes or no?



## rick1980 (Mar 3, 2008)

Hi guys i've been reading up on GTP's as i've had my heart set on getting one at some point. The info i've read has been contradicting with regard to who should get one. 

I have no experience of keeping snakes but do have experience of Gecko's and beardies. GTP's are often referred to as 'only for the more experienced snake keeper'.

I have considered getting a corn/king or rat snake but have decided not to on the basis getting a pet IS for life. I think it's important to take time and considerations in choosing the right snake, which i believe would be a GTP.

Please all responses with reasons welcome


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

i reckon so long as you do lots of research and know inside out what a particular species needs and requirements are, how they behave etc, and more importantly can provide these requirements, then ANY snake would make a good first snake.

Like you say, why get a species that you don't really want?

:2thumb:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

well to be honest they are a difficult species to keep and EXPECT TO GET BITTEN lol!!

but so long as you are 110% confident you have their husbandry perfect (especially the humidity) then by all means go for it. and theres always people like myself on here if you have any problems! 

the only advice id give you is to maybe get a year old one rather than a hatchling as they can be little f:censor:ers when it comes to not eating! if youve never had a snake before, assist feeding a chondro can be exciting!

let us know what you decide - and i wish you the best of luck with this amazing species!

hope this helped : victory: Hell xx


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## rick1980 (Mar 3, 2008)

*advice*

Thanks for your response

I'll no doubt be back for advice around the new year with pics and stuff, can't wait i'm starting to get excited already. 

Are you aware of any good breeders preferably near Manchester all though i would be willing to collect from anywhere in the uk?

We do have a shop near us that from what i can see seems reputable 'Viper and Vine' in Prestwich. you guys ever heard of it?

Can you give me any reflections on how often you handle your GTP's i'm on the understanding it's as little as possible. Do you feed live / dead food? when you say get bitten a lot, how often? can this hurt the snake?

Don’t worry I will do me reading and learn as much as I can before making the commitment. 

Thanks again.


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## akuma 天 (Apr 15, 2008)

If I wanted something enough, and I was conifdent I could look after it, and there was no rules that said I couldn't, I would certainly get one.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Doubtless everyone has slightly differing opinions on what's best or not. This is my personal two penn'orth worth.

Don't buy a GTP from a petshop. It's far better to buy direct from the breeder as, if they're a good breeder, they will be able to give you all the feed & shed records for the animal and, if you're new, give you proven adice on feeding, housing, husbandry etc. Plus, if they're worth their salt, they will be on the end of a phone or email should you encounter any problems. Honest answer, can a petshop do this?

Handling, in one word.............don't! If you get a neonate, then handling can cause irreparable damage to the spine which may not show up until later on in life. GTP's have loosely jointed vertebrae when young and forcible removal from a perch can damage the connective tissue causing spinal kinks. At best, these are unsightly, at worst can cause problems with defecation and possibly sterility. Baby chondros should be moved around on their perch when it's necessary to clean their container. If they come off of their own accord then allow them to "wander" around your hand but don't forcibly "unwind" them from any perch.

Biting: young chondros are, by nature, snappy. This is good for getting them to feed, not good for your fingers if they happen to be in the way! You should avoid getting bitten as apart from it hurting,there is a possibility of teeth breaking off and the subsequent risk of mouth infections from encapsulated tooth remnants. You really don't want to be treating mouth infections in a young chondro. I wouldn't say that it's inevitable that you will get bitten, some Chondros calm down as they get older, some never do, you just have to deal with what you've got

Stuart Marquis (Essexchondro) posts on here regularly and may well be able to put you in touch with people planning on breeding next year. Alternatively there may be some people with "leftovers" from this year's clutches that are for sale.

In terms of ease of husbandry, a yearling would be your best bet, all the hard work has been done, it may well have been sexed and you'll see what your adult snake will look like, but it'll be more expensive and I perseonally think it's nice to be able to get in quick and have a choice of babies an whilst frustrating at times, it's nice to put the work in raising a youngster yourself.

Good luck


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

stuartdouglas couldnt have said it better!

im looking to breed when my little guy is big enough - as soon as i know the sex ill buy a mate for him/her of similar age (if i can find one at the time!) but of course this wont be for ages plus breeding them can be fairly hit and miss.

the only breeders that im aware of in the UK is down in essex but when your paying over £300 for a snake its worth the travel! i got mine from a chap who got it from small breeder in stockport but i believe they've moved.

i live in manchester city centre myself so if you do manage to get one but have any problems dont hesitate to pm me on here : victory:


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## rick1980 (Mar 3, 2008)

Hi guys, thanks for info

Sorry i should have mentioned Viper and Vine are also breeders with their own facilitys in uk and i belive Thiland? please visit their website 
www.*viperandvine*.com just for a browse if nothing else

Chondro13 yes the travel is no problem i read a thread earlier about someone sending a Gecko via Royal Mail? couldn't believe it!

Stuart although I think I would be able to care for a newbie and want to see it develop I think a yearling is the sensible answer and will over rule the risk of caring for a little one 

Any how I'll keep reading up as i believe i will get one when the times right so thanks again for your help and advice and sorry chondro13 if I do bombard you with pm when I do lol


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

eeji said:


> i reckon so long as you do lots of research and know inside out what a particular species needs and requirements are, how they behave etc, and more importantly can provide these requirements, then ANY snake would make a good first snake.
> 
> Like you say, why get a species that you don't really want?
> 
> :2thumb:





chondro13 said:


> well to be honest they are a difficult species to keep and EXPECT TO GET BITTEN lol!!
> 
> but so long as you are 110% confident you have their husbandry perfect (especially the humidity) then by all means go for it. and theres always people like myself on here if you have any problems!
> 
> ...





akuma 天;2488983 said:


> If I wanted something enough, and I was conifdent I could look after it, and there was no rules that said I couldn't, I would certainly get one.


It's good to see this sound advice.

Like they say, if you do the research and put the effort in, then why not?


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

My concerns would be more along the lines of -
If this is your first snake and you have not had any experience of snakes body language etc then to me you need to seriously do your homework.
The amount of first time snake keepers who ask the most basic of questions and panic about some of the most basic daily care stuff is fairly high, which is not a problem, I did this myself with my first few snakes. Its all normal. But GTPs are not a snake you want to me messing around with if you dont know what you are doing. They can prove difficult for the most experienced of keepers, who have many years of experience.
I personally believe it is the best interests of the snake if you at least have some experience with snakes in general as well back up from a reliable, experienced and knowledgeable source. Maybe you could spend some time helping someone with their snakes on a regular basis first or volunteer in a shop, then you can gain a little experience with snakes first before making your purchase.

I'm afraid I disagree with Stuart re the shop versus private breeder issue, I do not believe it is always as straight forward as that. This is not because we have a shop, but down to experience. I know of some supposedly top breeders in this country whose morals are very questionable, ie selling wild caught royal pythons as their own captive bred stock and marking the price up, huge amounts of a certain type of snakes kept in absolutely filthy conditions. Anyone can falsify records too. What I would say is that you need to find a reputable and trusted source to purchase from and ask lots of questions - anyone worth their salt will not mind you asking questions and will offer back up care too. Try asking around on this site and see if you can get some recommendations. Dont be in a hurry to buy, take your time checking everything out.

Dont believe everything you read on the internet, research at least 10 different websites. Anyone can post info up on a website and claim it is correct info, but by reading round lots of sites you will start to observe the common themes.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Angi said:


> I'm afraid I disagree with Stuart re the shop versus private breeder issue, I do not believe it is always as straight forward as that. This is not because we have a shop, but down to experience. I know of some supposedly top breeders in this country whose morals are very questionable, ie selling wild caught royal pythons as their own captive bred stock and marking the price up, huge amounts of a certain type of snakes kept in absolutely filthy conditions. Anyone can falsify records too. What I would say is that you need to find a reputable and trusted source to purchase from and ask lots of questions - anyone worth their salt will not mind you asking questions and will offer back up care too. Try asking around on this site and see if you can get some recommendations. Dont be in a hurry to buy, take your time checking everything out.
> 
> Dont believe everything you read on the internet, research at least 10 different websites. Anyone can post info up on a website and claim it is correct info, but by reading round lots of sites you will start to observe the common themes.


 I would agree that there are dodgy breeders around but if you got to a breeders home and his setup is filthy, a sensible person would walk away. Definately ask around and the same names will crop up with regard to being sound, reputable breeders. I still wouldn't buy a chondro from a shop tho'


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

Viper & Vine breed their own GTPs, so they _are_ the breeder 

They still have one left in if you are interested 

...and they have an excellent reputation and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


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## snickers (Aug 15, 2007)

GTPs are expensive and they aren't easy to keep. Also the humidity means they will be a lot more work than a carpet for instance.

It may be better to get an ATB first. They are a lot more robust but still have the humidity requirements and similar temperament. Also they are beautiful snakes.

If you can keep and breed ATBs a GTP won't be so challenging. No amount of research will compensate for experience.


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## mike mc (Nov 27, 2006)

eeji said:


> Viper & Vine breed their own GTPs, so they _are_ the breeder
> 
> They still have one left in if you are interested
> 
> ...and they have an excellent reputation and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


 
this is where i got mine from,im guessing its the red one left as i took the yellow


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

mike mc said:


> this is where i got mine from,im guessing its the red one left as i took the yellow


it certainly is :2thumb:


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## KISSMAN-ACE (Aug 25, 2008)

I JUST went for it and got a yearling,seems to be doin fine eat the day after i picked it up and i love it,get yourself the more complete chondro book that tells u everything u need to know,if u want one get one


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

eeji said:


> Viper & Vine breed their own GTPs, so they _are_ the breeder
> 
> They still have one left in if you are interested
> 
> ...and they have an excellent reputation and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


all well and good, but unless I saw the facility where the snakes were bred I personally wouldn't buy..............

Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not for one minute suggesting that V&V do this, but some UK "breeders" actually have "facilities" in Indonesia where the snakes are bred, which to all intents and purposes are Captive farmed, not CB........
Each to their own, but I will only buy from private breeders


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## Chriseybear (Jun 6, 2008)

eeji said:


> Viper & Vine breed their own GTPs, so they _are_ the breeder
> 
> They still have one left in if you are interested
> 
> ...and they have an excellent reputation and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


 
Aye good shop, was interested in that gtp myself, he's a cute little fella, but i waited and got me the yellow biak i was looking for. after another now.. wouldnt mind a red!


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## KISSMAN-ACE (Aug 25, 2008)

Agreed


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## thewifestolemyaccount (Mar 24, 2008)

snickers said:


> GTPs are expensive and they aren't easy to keep. Also the humidity means they will be a lot more work than a carpet for instance.
> 
> It may be better to get an ATB first. They are a lot more robust but still have the humidity requirements and similar temperament. Also they are beautiful snakes.
> 
> If you can keep and breed ATBs a GTP won't be so challenging. No amount of research will compensate for experience.


Completely disagree. GTP's aren't difficult to keep if you get the setup right in the first place and have done plenty of research. First off buy Greg Maxwell's book 'The More Complete Chondro' and read from cover to cover.
If you have set your heart on a GTP then there is no reason not to have one.
Also follow Stuart's advice and buy from a private breeder as a lot of shop stock is not CB.


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi all,

I've only just seen this thread as I don't venture in to the "newbie advice" section that often. Here's my thoughts on the subject;

1. Gtp's are not _difficult_ to keep*. It's more accurate to say that they have quite _specific_ requirements, and that they generally don't do well when those requirements aren't properly catered for. So, if you can cater for those requirements then I don't see why gtp's can't be a snake for beginners. Everyone harks on about how hard it is to keep chondros due to the humidity issue, but its really not that difficult to boost humidity through misting a cage once every day or so...and this 20 second misting per day that my gtp's get is the only difference in the day-to-day care of my gtp's and my royals, for example (no rocket science here!). 

* I'm refering to captive bred gtp's, not wild caught animals.

2 Shops tend to sell what I would refer to as "captive farm bred" gtp's. Technically they are captive bred animals because the parents are bred together at the breeding facility and the eggs are laid and hatched there as well (this is completely different to the scenario you have with farmed royal pythons whereby already gravid females are caught from the wild and the eggs are merely laid and hatched out at the farm facility). These "captive farm bred" or "captive bred in Indonesia" gtp's are able to be produced in relatively high number at relatively lost cost (as compared to UK captive bred). Personally, I have three general concerns with the selling of "captive farm bred" gtp's in the UK;

a) They are never labelled as "captive farm bred" or "captive bred in Indonesia" by shops. They are always labelled simply as "captive bred"...and that misleads many buyers into thinking that they are "captive bred" in the sense of the more common and accepted usage of the term i.e captive bred in the UK, US, Europe etc. 

b) The end buyer in the UK hardly ever gets any info on their "captive farm bred" gtp i.e, pictures of the parents, feeding and shedding records, hatch date. They rarely even get info as to which facility it came from!

c) That "captive farm bred" animal has to endure shipping from Indonesia to the UK. Often this will go without any hiccups, but the chances of things going wrong are obviously greater in a 10,000 mile trip than they are in the 2 hour drive down the M1 to collect your animal from a UK breeder.


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## rick1980 (Mar 3, 2008)

*Chondro*

Hi guy's and gal's thanks for all the advice you've given

I've ordered 'The complete Chondro' and have decided to read it fully before making any decisions. I'll also take a trip to V&V and have a chat with them regarding breading and such. (not going to rush into anything!)

For now though i'll just enjoy evryones pics and getting to know people around the forum

:Na_Na_Na_Na:

Thanks again
Richard
0:1:0 leapord Gecko Eddie


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## Jon_G (Nov 21, 2007)

The greg maxwell book is a great read and full of useful practical information.

Try and find a local person that keeps chondros and go round for feeding and cleaning time, there are a few good chondro keepers in the Uk (and some bad ones also...lol)

This way you will quickly see the differences in behaviour and how to feed a fully arboreal animal.

There are allot of locality animals already out there and new ones also.(the giant chondro is an amazing beast !!!)

In my experiance when I lived in the UK if you got good quality CAPTIVE bred indonesian chondros these were exactly the same quality as anything I bought in the UK and europe. 

The babies are at least second generation captive bred before being exported from indonesia so far far removed from the wild chondros. 

Interestingly if you do get offered a wild caught chondro these would have been part of an illegal shipment from here, so do not buy fromthat supplier.

When you get into chondros they fast become an addiction, a fantastic snake which is easy to care for in the correct environment.

If you do buy from a shop, buy from someone you trust such as darren biggs of crystal palace reptiles, he will give you all the answers you require.

If the supplier isn't able to give you all the answers you require, buy from someone who does !!

Good luck with your research.


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## Alex27 (Jul 26, 2008)

hav a look at www.crystalpalacereptiles.com theyve got a nice few locals in atm


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

essexchondro said:


> Gtp's are not _difficult_ to keep*. It's more accurate to say that they have quite _specific_ requirements, and that they generally don't do well when those requirements aren't properly catered for.


As ever, Nail, head, hit!


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## bEnNy THE BeArDeD (Sep 15, 2008)

*nnnnnooooo!!!!*

pesonnaly they hard snakes to look after if your a beginer becouse they need a lot of caring and can be aggresive


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> pesonnaly they hard snakes to look after if your a beginer because they need a lot of caring and can be aggresive


Look, its all about providing the right environment for them, nothing more. There is no innate "hardness" to keeping gtp's and any species would deteriorate over time if they aren't provided with a suitable environment. 

Rather than saying that gtp's are not for beginners, it would be more accurate to say that gtp's are not for sloppy keepers and those that don't do their research properly beforehand. 

Furthermore, in carrying out research into gtp's (*before buying one*) the researcher will learn that gtp's are primarily a display snake and that handling should be kept to a minimum. Once the researcher approaches gtp's from the "display snake perspective" and isn't primarily concerned with questions about "how handleable are gtp's?" then the issue of aggression and snappiness - which is generally overplayed, anyway - suddenly becomes much less relevant.


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## xmashx (Sep 14, 2007)

i saw that someone said about not knowing the body language. 

But wouldnt the best way to see it to either go onto somewhere like youtube where they have hundreds of videos of snakes so you can get a sense of what their like.

btw i dont keep snakes just had a thought as soon as i saw that comment.

and if you worried about getting bitten heavy duty building gloves are quite thick which is good because ive seen the size of their teeth.

good luck x
xsachax


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> i saw that someone said about not knowing the body language.
> 
> But wouldnt the best way to see it to either go onto somewhere like youtube where they have hundreds of videos of snakes so you can get a sense of what their like.
> 
> ...


During the day a gtp is more likely to simply bury its head in its coils if you touch it whilst its perched. Its only after sun-set, when they're in feeding mode, that you're likely to get tagged if you stick your hand in the viv...*but that would also be a possible outcome with lots of different snake species, not just gtp's.* 

Gtp perches should be easily removable so that you can just remove the perch with the snake on it rather than pulling the snake from the perch, and all husbandry should be carried out during the day rather than at night (*which is pretty much the case with most species, anyway*).


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