# what was ur first DWA?



## TBreptiles (Dec 11, 2009)

HI,
i realy like the dwa thing so thought i would ask about ur 1st.(if u dont mind)

i was just wondering what dwa u started with?

was it a good starter?

thanks



p.s:im not planing on getting one,im to young


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Mine was V.ammodytes, closely followed by C.atrox, as for were they a good starter its hard to say really, they have been ok for me I havent had any problems my C.atrox is pretty calm, defensive but in nearly 3 years I could count the amount of times I have seen it strike at me on one hand however I have seen other specimens that are hell bent on nailing anything be it a hand or a hook.


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## TBreptiles (Dec 11, 2009)

SiUK said:


> Mine was V.ammodytes, closely followed by C.atrox, as for were they a good starter its hard to say really, they have been ok for me I havent had any problems my C.atrox is pretty calm, defensive but in nearly 3 years I could count the amount of times I have seen it strike at me on one hand however I have seen other specimens that are hell bent on nailing anything be it a hand or a hook.


 o kl

what else u keep?


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## beardys (Sep 28, 2009)

the wife:whistling2:still being tamed down


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

At the moment I keep the two I have mentioned, a N.kaouthia, B.arietans, and an A.contortrix

I was keeping a B.gabonica and C.albolabris as well, as well as a handful of scorpions


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## TBreptiles (Dec 11, 2009)

SiUK said:


> At the moment I keep the two I have mentioned, a N.kaouthia, B.arietans, and an A.contortrix
> 
> I was keeping a B.gabonica and C.albolabris as well, as well as a handful of scorpions


 kool

would luv to see:whistling2:


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## eddygecko (Feb 14, 2007)

SiUK said:


> Mine was V.ammodytes,


Love these snakes, spent ages looking for one last week in greece but had no luck. Saw some nice lizards, leopard snakes and a legless lizard though


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

there you go some pics of the clan

























old pic when it was tiny, thats the cap of a bottle next to it


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## Alfonzo (Mar 7, 2008)

SiUK said:


> there you go some pics of the clan


I love your A.contortrix Si, aside from the fact that they are venomous, how do you find them to keep? Husbandry wise are they tricky? I understand they are often considered to be a good 'first DWA'. Great pics anyway, thanks for sharing!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

The first venomous snake i ever handled was an Ornate Cantil. I was also mentored using WDB, Death Adder, red spitting cobra, and a couple of other things i cant remember but it was 15 years or so ago.

My first venomous snake was a Copperhead i also had a WDB and baby Monocled cobra


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## TBreptiles (Dec 11, 2009)

so out of these what's the best starter



1.gaboon
2.copperead
3.whitelip tree viper
4.western dimondback
5.puff ader
???

thanks


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

TBreptiles said:


> so out of these what's the best starter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Depends what you are comfortable with but out of all of them the 'nicest' I have found is the albolabris. Puff adders can be horrible & chasing one around a room is not fun! People say Copperheads but I have been around a few that are horrible! Again you don't want to be bitten by any obviously but Gabby, Puffs & WDB will hurt big time! I don't know much about the effects of Copperhead bites.

However to keep I do not know as I have only handled them round mates.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

SiUK said:


> there you go some pics of the clan
> 
> image
> image
> ...


 Thats a nice hole at the back of your Cobra's viv, does it lead straight to the local primary school? :whistling2:


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

What is DWA? I have never kept anything under the act 

I started my professional career with Mangrove Snakes, _Boiga dendrophila_, but my introduction to the world of seriously venomous snakes was when I was trained to work with _Atheris nitschei_, _Nitsche's bush viper....... and I just went on from there..... I have kept and worked with hundreds of different venomous species of the years. :thumb:_


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

My first DWA were a pair of Cuvier's dwarf caimans. Absolutely stunning creatures. 
*
1st *Paleosuchus palpebrosus

*2nd* Caiman crocodilus
*3rd* Vipera ammodytes
*4th* Heloderma suspectum cinctums / suspectums

Although not my own collection, I currently work with:

Crocodylus niloticus and Alligator mississippiensis 

I would personally like to add to my collection a Bitis gabonica & Bitis nasicornis, but my wife is having none of it. She is still moaning about my gila monsters and nose-horned vipers. She is even giving me stick over my hognoses can you believe! :whip:


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

White Lipped Tree Viper, Trimeresurus albolabris was mine.


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## jasper1 (Apr 15, 2007)

My first was pair of _Boiga dendrophila _(Mangrove Snake) they were classed as DWA back in '86. I then kept various numbers of _Malpolon monspessulanus_ (Montpellier Snake) & _Macrovipera lebetina _(Bunt-nosed Viper). I haven't kept DWA since the 90's, I now keep rear fanged arboreal snakes mainly.


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## George_Millett (Feb 26, 2009)

PDR said:


> What is DWA? I have never kept anything under the act
> 
> I started my professional career with Mangrove Snakes, _Boiga dendrophila_, but my introduction to the world of seriously venomous snakes was when I was trained to work with _Atheris nitschei_, _Nitsche's bush viper....... and I just went on from there..... I have kept and worked with hundreds of different venomous species of the years. :thumb:_


 
Rephrasing the original question then. What venomous species have you not worked with over the years??? Guessing it will be a smaller list than the ones you have worked with.


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## xvickyx (Jul 21, 2009)

SiUK said:


> there you go some pics of the clan
> 
> image
> image
> ...


:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble: wow


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## jonny cichla (Apr 6, 2008)

TBreptiles said:


> so out of these what's the best starter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Id go for the white lip tree viper! venom no where near as bad as the others! Still would"nt like a bite thow! Problem is thow not the easyest to keep out the bunch!









My" 1st dwa" Crotalus" rubber rubber! not the best starter!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

for husbandry reasons the easyest will be the White lip vipers.
they are easy to hook and usually stay on it once on and i would say a fairly easy snake to keep if you have kept a few snakes before. there easy to feed in general.


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## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

SiUK said:


> image


Nice and safe I see with the missing vent :lol2: : victory:


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## NightGecko (Jul 17, 2009)

And to answer the question,

The first DWA I worked with was a venomoid _Naja haje _followed by two fully loaded _C. attrox _(one of who was just defensive and the other overly aggressive).

I've also worked with _C. oreganus lutosus_ and _B. gabonica. _I've yet to keep any myself as I'm still being mentored and don't own my own property, but I will some day.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

My first was a Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake (Sistrurus miliarus) in keeping, and idk what EXACTLY fits into DWA, but also a Goliath Bird-eating Spider (Theraphosa blondi) , Spectacled Caiman (Cayman crocodilus) and American Alligator (Alligator mississpiensis). I have none of the above anymore.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

my first venomous were a pair of copperheads, closely followed by a female gaboon.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

TBreptiles said:


> HI,
> i realy like the dwa thing so thought i would ask about ur 1st.(if u dont mind)
> 
> i was just wondering what dwa u started with?
> ...


With the greatest respect, allow me to answer the question I think you're really asking. You've already said you're too young to keep venomous snakes, so I can only assume that you're simply flirting with the idea of one day keeping venomous. I also assume you're relatively new to snake keeping in general. 
What I think you mean by "what was your first DWA, was it a good starter?" is "What is a good starter venomous snake?" Well, to put it simply, there is no such thing as a "_starter_" venomous snake. 
This is a question that gets thrown about by people who expect there to be a corn snake equivalent amongst venomous species. There isnt. Your first venomous snake should be the one you feel most comfortable working with. For me it was a Gaboon Viper, because it was the snake I had handled the most while I was being mentored.
If you intend to keep venomous species you should obtain as much experience as possible with non-venomous species. You need to experience stuck eye caps, retained sheds, problem feeders, mite treatment, etc. Think how you deal with these with non-venomous, then consider how you'd cope if the snake you needed to work so closely with could kill you. Your handling needs to be faultless, and for when it goes wrong (and it will) you need to be adept at improvisation and fast to react.
The most important thing however is your mindset. You can handle, grab, hook and tail, neck, etc. If it isn't dangerously venomous it doesn't trigger that part of the brain that says "survive". That is something you can't train for unless it's on the real thing. The nearest you'll get is a giant constrictor. If you panic when a 20 foot retic wraps a coil over your shoulders because you know it could kill you, think how you'd feel if you had a snake a fraction of the size that only needed to graze you with a fang to do the same. 
Think about what I've said. Don't rush into it. If you're still interested, I'm sure you'll find plenty of people here willing to help you.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

I agree with Dave 110%, and in short answer or layman's terms, I would vote the species with the lowest toxicity level in their venom. Possibly a opistoglyph (rear-fanged) snake such as a Mangrove snake (Boiga dendrophila), Dog-toothed Catsnake (Boiga cynodon), False Water Cobra (Hydrodynastes gigas), or if preferring a Pteroglyph (front-fanged) or Solenoglyph (retractable fangs) snake, I would go with nothing more potent than a Copperhead (Agkistrodon contortrix). Elapidae are ONLY for the VERY experienced hobbyist as well as 95% of Vipers. From what I understand the Copperheads have among the weakest of venom and I've met a few people at Reptile Expos who "claim" their remedy for a bite from A. contortrix is merely swallowing a few aspirin and taking a nap. Not sure how valid this is, but I haven't heard of anyone having serious complications from this species (except allergic reactions), much less death.

Remember, everyone who keeps venomous snakes - there is ALWAYS the chance you could have an allergic reaction to the venom and the chances are great that you will never know unless it happens. Use proper equipment, caution, acute concentration, educate yourself and DON'T do anything stupid.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm confused. How can you claim to agree with me yet then go on to list "starter snakes"? You list several rear-fanged species, or opisthoglyphous if your prefer, and then copperheads, but to what end? If someone intended to keep rattlesnakes then what good would a mangrove snake be as a training tool? Conversely, if they wanted cobras, why start with a copperhead? Also, stating that you'd go for the species with the weakest venom is pointless. The idea is to not get bitten at all. Potency of venom is academic really. 
Plus, why copperheads? They're some of the nastiest little snakes I've ever encountered. Why is that a good starting point?


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> there is ALWAYS the chance you could have an allergic reaction to the venom and the chances are great that you will never know unless it happens.


It'd be pretty difficult to know before it happened.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

terciopelo_dave said:


> I'm confused. How can you claim to agree with me yet then go on to list "starter snakes"? You list several rear-fanged species, or opisthoglyphous if your prefer, and then copperheads, but to what end? If someone intended to keep rattlesnakes then what good would a mangrove snake be as a training tool? Conversely, if they wanted cobras, why start with a copperhead? Also, stating that you'd go for the species with the weakest venom is pointless. The idea is to not get bitten at all. Potency of venom is academic really.
> Plus, why copperheads? They're some of the nastiest little snakes I've ever encountered. Why is that a good starting point?


Well supposedly getting bit is nearly possible to avoid, so if it's going to happen, wouldn't you rather a bite from a Mangrove, Copperhead or other "low-heat" species instead of a potentially fatal Cobra, Taipan, Tiger snake, Rattlesnake bite? MY 1st was a Pygmy and it was foolish of me simply because they have a nasty hemotoxin that can ruin your weekend....or a few months even. However, some of the snakes I mentioned are reccomended by the experienced venomous keepers I have known through out my life, with Copperheads being #1 on all their lists. Although Gabon Vipers and Rhino Vipers have been known to be relativley tame, their fangs are ENORMOUS, very mobile and have a very toxic venom as well. So my philosophy is "why take chances before you even have experience?"

Of course the ultimate goal is NOT to get bit, but even the best get bit. The most experienced snake-handler/venom-extracter in the (world?) had been bitten over 135 times. I also had the pleasure of chatting/meeting the large-scale Taipan dealer in the U.S., the same man who was bitten on 9-11-2001 and was Medi-vac'ed to the hospital, the only air-traffic on that day. He was REALLY good and been working Taipans for 20+ years, but he STILL got bit. Zero-tolerance, or being 100% of something does not exist, and anything is possible. So it's only common sense for someone trying to gain experience with venomous species AFTER the maximum amount of experience with non-venomous species is aquired.....start with a snake that won't KILL you if you DO unfortunately get bitten.

this is him, but i met him in person and had my own interview: http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/i-was-bitten-9-11-snakebite/

Also, to the OP, Daimondbacks and Puff Adders are completely out-of-the-question for starter snakes. Anything w/ 40% mortality rate or more is foolish to keep as a beginner.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

:no1:i started with copperheads, moved onto gaboons, then i purchased 3 spitting cobras and 3 green mambas in 1 foul swoop, i have to say, out of all these snakes by far the most irritable and snappy were the copperheads, many people i know have said the same, i personally believe getting bitten comes from complacency or cockiness.

if you show the animal the respect it deserves a bite can certainly be avoided, i believe that people who have been bitten multiple times, as have been described previously should consider another occupation or hobby as they are obviously not suited to handle the kind of animals they do.

if i were to start from scratch again i would almost certainly choose a gaboon, yes they have large teeth, they also have a large amount of venom potential, however, these snakes in the whole appear docile, maybe they dont need to prove what they are capable of.

opinions vary in this matter obviously and im sure some will agree some will disagree, we are at the end of the day entitled to our own opinions.

some opinions seem to come from "other peoples experiences" and not their own, with you all the way dave, you know already that if im stuck or struggling with anything, theres only 1 person i would call.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

mmmmmmmmm :whistling2:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

snappingchap said:


> :no1:i started with copperheads, moved onto gaboons, then i purchased 3 spitting cobras and 3 green mambas in 1 foul swoop, i have to say, out of all these snakes by far the most irritable and snappy were the copperheads, many people i know have said the same, i personally believe getting bitten comes from complacency or cockiness.
> 
> if you show the animal the respect it deserves a bite can certainly be avoided, i believe that people who have been bitten multiple times, as have been described previously should consider another occupation or hobby as they are obviously not suited to handle the kind of animals they do.
> 
> ...


and what about Dave~?????????:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

hahahahahaha, you kill me, got to say, me you and dave, what a team?????

:2thumb:


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Can I ask Victor Creed, where did you get the information that Diamondbacks and Puff Adders cause 40% mortality, this is completely false, I would say it is much lower than 10%.
Cheers,
Brian.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

i wouldnt worry Brian Victor Creed is just a comic book character


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

tigersnake said:


> Can I ask Victor Creed, where did you get the information that Diamondbacks and Puff Adders cause 40% mortality, this is completely false, I would say it is much lower than 10%.
> Cheers,
> Brian.


40% withOUT antivenin. I read it in a book written by a PHD.


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks for thet Lee, it is a shame that most of the forums have gone like this now, at one time it was good to come on and share information with each other, now, if you do dare to post something, it is pulled to pieces and criticised by people that don`t even keep. It would be nice to get it all back to how it used to be, before all the venomous keepers stop posting.
Cheers,
Brian.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Sadly Brian I think the situation has shifted too far to be recoverable. I'd say at a conservative estimate that for every legitimate keeper who posts here, there are at least 3 fakes or critics ready to strip credibility or shoot you down. Against odds like that it's no surprise people are leaving in droves. I used to enjoy this site, but now every visit is a chore.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

I dont know dave i would say its better than CB forum and to be honest the last few posts i have posted havent been too bad mainly due to all the numpties seem to have followed you know who. So if we can entice the others back im sure we could have a decent forum here again.....Any way it cant be that bad here no one has tried to tell me that the safety glasses i am wearing are no good etc etc etc which i expected....lol


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Victor Creed said:


> Well supposedly getting bit is nearly possible to avoid, so if it's going to happen, wouldn't you rather a bite from a Mangrove, Copperhead or other "low-heat" species instead of a potentially fatal Cobra, Taipan, Tiger snake, Rattlesnake bite? MY 1st was a Pygmy and it was foolish of me simply because they have a nasty hemotoxin that can ruin your weekend....or a few months even. However, some of the snakes I mentioned are reccomended by the experienced venomous keepers I have known through out my life, with Copperheads being #1 on all their lists. Although Gabon Vipers and Rhino Vipers have been known to be relativley tame, their fangs are ENORMOUS, very mobile and have a very toxic venom as well. So my philosophy is "why take chances before you even have experience?"
> 
> Of course the ultimate goal is NOT to get bit, but even the best get bit. The most experienced snake-handler/venom-extracter in the (world?) had been bitten over 135 times. I also had the pleasure of chatting/meeting the large-scale Taipan dealer in the U.S., the same man who was bitten on 9-11-2001 and was Medi-vac'ed to the hospital, the only air-traffic on that day. He was REALLY good and been working Taipans for 20+ years, but he STILL got bit. Zero-tolerance, or being 100% of something does not exist, and anything is possible. So it's only common sense for someone trying to gain experience with venomous species AFTER the maximum amount of experience with non-venomous species is aquired.....start with a snake that won't KILL you if you DO unfortunately get bitten.
> 
> ...


I think you've got an incredibly naive view concerning copperheads, mangroves, etc. You seem to think they're some sort of venomous snake equivalent of training wheels. They aren't. No arguements. And you don't need to own a venomous snake to get experience with them. Other people keep them, so you can get mentored. See my point?

You said: "_So it's only common sense for someone trying to gain experience with venomous species AFTER the maximum amount of experience with non-venomous species is aquired.....start with a snake that won't KILL you if you DO unfortunately get bitten."_

Please define "maximum amount of experience". Is there a level you can reach where you can no longer learn anything?

You're correct when you say even very experienced people get bitten, but being factually accurate doesn't necessarily make a statement relevant to the context of the discussion. People get run over, people get beaten up, people get mugged, people get struck by lightning, and people get bitten by snakes. Bad things happen. It's called life. But as a snake keeper you minimise your chance of getting bitten by improving your techniques and becoming good enough to handle the animal BEFORE you buy / capture it. You do not, under any circumstances try to gain experience AFTER the event by buying a snake with a more "forgiving" venom composition. If you aren't good enough to handle venomous snakes then you simply aren't good enough. Only one thing to do. Get better. 

And finally, in my humble opinion, anyone who needs to ask what species is the best starter isn't ready to keep. Plain and simple. So throwing around the old cliched mantra that copperheads are good starters is a pointless exercise from the word go. Anyone who is genuine about keeping venomous snakes knows exactly what species they are interested in and finds out who can help them prepare.


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Victor, can you please give me the refferance that states "Diamondbacks" and Puff Adders have a 40% mortality, even without anti-venom.
Dave, I agree, this forum is not as bad as Captive Bred, every post on the venomous section turns into arguements and personal abuse. I think this forum is still quite good on the whole.
Victor, I am not having a go at you, I just have never seen mortality figures like this for these snakes.
All the best,
Brian.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Simon and Schuster's Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians. See for yourself. It wouldn't be the 1st time I have recieved information that wasn't accurate, so if the information is incorrect, please forgive me, but I usually try to read books that are written by someone with a P.H.D. and assume the word of them to be accurate.


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## tigersnake (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Victor,
These general guides to reptiles and amphibians usually have mistakes in them, in fact, I have never read a book yet that did not have a mistake in. I think experience over the years teaches you what is right or wrong (in your considered opinion). I would recommend a good book on toxinology for facts and figures regarding snakebite.
Cheers,
Brian.


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

My first DWA and last for a long time mite i add. was a phonutria nigriventer lol which very quickly got passed on to someone with a dwa!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

brownj6709 said:


> My first DWA and last for a long time mite i add. was a phonutria nigriventer lol which very quickly got passed on to someone with a dwa!


You had a Brazilian Wanderer and u got rid of it??!!! WHY?!! Also, which spiders and scorpions and more or less anything NOT a venomous snake, crocodilian, or Heloderma genus fall into the DWA category in the U.K.?


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## DRAGONLOVER1981 (Jul 7, 2009)

beardys said:


> the wife:whistling2:still being tamed down


 
lol:no1:


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## brownj6709 (Jan 26, 2010)

Victor Creed said:


> You had a Brazilian Wanderer and u got rid of it??!!! WHY?!! Also, which spiders and scorpions and more or less anything NOT a venomous snake, crocodilian, or Heloderma genus fall into the DWA category in the U.K.?


I didnt have a licence and decided it was a bad idea as there very unpredictable spiders also got a keyserlingi off the same lad i got the nigriventer off. (he dint have a licence either) and id rather stay above the law as im contemplating geting an eyelash viper when we move out and after allot of thought and research (naturaly). but to answer your Q its mainly buthid scorps on the dwa and phonutria, lactrodectus, and one type of funnel web (cant remember at this time) for the spids have to say thought i dont think lactro's should be on there as youve gotta be a real idiot or just plain unlucky to get bitten by one.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

i need to ask victor a question, i have had a browse at your profile, you dont list any animals there (that i could see, i am a numpty and new to this however so it may be my mistake) i am interested to know what animals you have at the moment, i notice most of your comments are "i have read it in this book, that book or the other book" so out of interest i am wondering what experience you have and what animals you currently keep please.

i may actually be out of line asking but we are all friends here hahaha, i hope, so dont mean to offend, just merely asking a question so i can better cement my rapidly forming opinion of you.

cheers

mark


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

brownj6709 said:


> I didnt have a licence and decided it was a bad idea as there very unpredictable spiders also got a keyserlingi off the same lad i got the nigriventer off. (he dint have a licence either) and id rather stay above the law as im contemplating geting an eyelash viper when we move out and after allot of thought and research (naturaly). but to answer your Q its mainly buthid scorps on the dwa and phonutria, lactrodectus, and one type of funnel web (cant remember at this time) for the spids have to say thought i dont think lactro's should be on there as youve gotta be a real idiot or just plain unlucky to get bitten by one.


Full list of DWA listed species here:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-animallist.pdf

When it says Funnel-webs of the genus Atrax and close relatives, those close relatives are the other Australian Funnel-webs in the genus Handronyche, but not species within the genus Macrothele.
As for Latrodectus being DWA listed, it's due to the act's primary purpose of protecting the public, NOT the owner. You're correct in saying they pose little threat to a careful owner, but if a widow were to escape and get into a neighbour's home it could certainly pose a risk, hence their inclusion in the act.
If you're ever unsure of why a species is on the list, just remember that the licence isn't there to protect the person who decides to keep the animal. Think of the damage the animal could do if it were to escape and it should be quite clear why it's on there.


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

i can see why you got rid of the phonutria that thing looks really bloody scary!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> i need to ask victor a question, i have had a browse at your profile, you dont list any animals there (that i could see, i am a numpty and new to this however so it may be my mistake) i am interested to know what animals you have at the moment, i notice most of your comments are "i have read it in this book, that book or the other book" so out of interest i am wondering what experience you have and what animals you currently keep please.
> 
> i may actually be out of line asking but we are all friends here hahaha, i hope, so dont mean to offend, just merely asking a question so i can better cement my rapidly forming opinion of you.
> 
> ...


I'm not the only one who hasn't "pimped-out my profile" yet, but I have already posted some picturers around the site, and listed what I own in this thread last night. I do read lots of books as well as have hands-on experience, both wild and captive.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/6911328-post76.html

As far as an opinion goes, you don't need to form an opinion about me as I don't allow myself to form opinions about people i meet on a website, nor take much of what they say seriously unless it is helpful. Forming opinions on people is for IRL, when you can meet them in person and get a vibe and read them. Just accept me as an equal, that is all that matters.

And thank you very much for the list, Dave.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

hmmm, thanks for that "victor" i do tend to form opinions im afraid, usually from what i gather, information wise from their knowledge, or lack of it. some people are very easy to read, others a trifle more difficult.

i have read some of your imput and some of it is "dubious" to say the least, you also i note did not specift any animals that you currently have in your posession.

i think advise should only be given to people via yourselves if it is your own personal experience and not solely gleened wrom written material.

from my own personal experience i have found books are a great reference starting point but nothing can take the place of hands on experience. i would use books as a starting point but then ask advise from people i know and trust to assist me further to gain my own experiences.

i will also try not to give people advise that may mislead them in any way, shape or form, at the end of the day bum advise will potentially lead to disaster for both animal and owner.

mark


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

*first dwa*

My first was a Copperhead followed closely by a Western diamondback.


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## Agkistrodon (Dec 12, 2008)

I started with a pair of eyelash vipers and a pair of dusky pygmy rattlesnakes, then picked up a copperhead about three months after (and I'm glad I'd had the experience on the tamer stuff, that snake was MEAN) and then picked up a pair of variable bush vipers in Germany last December. I'd recommend the species I started with as starters to anyone else, it was a really comfortable progression into venomous handling.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> hmmm, thanks for that "victor" i do tend to form opinions im afraid, usually from what i gather, information wise from their knowledge, or lack of it. some people are very easy to read, others a trifle more difficult.
> 
> i have read some of your imput and some of it is "dubious" to say the least, you also i note did not specift any animals that you currently have in your posession.
> 
> ...




Uhmm.......Dude......if you click the link on post #52, the very 1st paragraph describes a few species I still own. I'm mostly into breeding SA/CA Cichlids these days, and w/ 5 dogs as well I have cut down the amount of reptiles I own. Did you even read it, man? The following paragraphs are species I used to own and have hands-on experience with.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

hmmmm, any one can list items they have had, or had experience with, are you not photogenic??? lee has photos with his cobra, numerour others have done the same, i have photos to add as soon as i can work this confounded contraption.

would yhou like to enlighten us all with a glimpse of you "playing with your snake", however flopiopelma hangingcockii does not count im afraid so no self praise thank you............

im sure numerous on this thread are curious as to your appearance and ability.

where are you from in the states???i see you have a very good understanding of the queens english vocabulary and are not using much ex colonial slang type terminology!!!!!humour me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> hmmmm, any one can list items they have had, or had experience with, are you not photogenic??? lee has photos with his cobra, numerour others have done the same, i have photos to add as soon as i can work this confounded contraption.
> 
> would yhou like to enlighten us all with a glimpse of you "playing with your snake", however flopiopelma hangingcockii does not count im afraid so no self praise thank you............
> 
> ...




Try "search function"


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

so what you are saying is there is no photographic evidence of you with "hots" then, im bored with this and you to be honest, you dont seem willing to prove you are not a fraud, cool. my opinion will remain unchanged then. if you are shy you could have sent me a pm, forget it now, im no longer remotely interested in who or what you are, or want to be.to say the least, you seem real childish so pm me if you want and i will gladly provide me with my telephone number and address so we can discuss this at your discression.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> so what you are saying is there is no photographic evidence of you with "hots" then, im bored with this and you to be honest, you dont seem willing to prove you are not a fraud, cool. my opinion will remain unchanged then. if you are shy you could have sent me a pm, forget it now, im no longer remotely interested in who or what you are, or want to be.to say the least, you seem real childish so pm me if you want and i will gladly provide me with my telephone number and address so we can discuss this at your discression.



Finally!!! Now just leave me alone. That's all I ever wanted in the first place.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

if you were not such a dick with your advise more and more people would leave you alone, stop mis leading people with your advise and before you quote google, CHECK.

laters loser.


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

snappingchap said:


> if you were not such a dick with your advise more and more people would leave you alone, stop mis leading people with your advise and before you quote google, CHECK.
> 
> laters loser.


 No I will NOT date you so stop sending me PMs and telling me how much you have a crush on me. I'm pretty sure you're not my type, I only like intelligent girls with a good head on their shoulders, not STALKERS like you. :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

its very evident you are anally retentive and very into young boys, you want to discuss further with me, pm me and i will give you my telephone number as it is evident you have no testicles. dont tend to bandy words with someone as childish and immature as yourself, however on this occasion i will make an exception if you would like to call me.lots of love and kisses. mark.:flrt:


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

snappingchap said:


> so what you are saying is there is no photographic evidence of you with "hots" then, im bored with this and you to be honest, you dont seem willing to prove you are not a fraud, cool. my opinion will remain unchanged then. if you are shy you could have sent me a pm, forget it now, im no longer remotely interested in who or what you are, or want to be.to say the least, you seem real childish so pm me if you want and i will gladly provide me with my telephone number and address so we can discuss this at your discression.


I have already been through this with Victor, I was proved wrong. 

He is a real person in a real place.... 

I have thought about this since and half the keepers on here have never posted pictures of themselves and would also probably refuse if they were asked so it's not that strange. In fact they have as was proved by Dunnys latest thread.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

willl you two stop flirting :flrt:

I had a V.ammodytes, followed by a C.atrox, then A.contortrix, C.albolaris, B.gabonica, B.arietans, and finally N.kaouthia


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## Victor Creed (Aug 25, 2010)

Ya, seriously though, it was just a joke and I was trying to relieve some of the tension by breaking thru the ice with some comedy. I only desire to be cool with everyone and I am a very nice guy. I really do not wish to have people flaming/flame-baiting/hating/disrespecting on a regular. I'm simply here to learn more about reptiles and help whenever I can. We can all be civil and there's no more need for this nonsense. 

Let's talk about reptiles and stop hating each other and constantly jumping on each others' cases. There is too much hatred and anger in this world. If we don't change our ways collectively as a species, mankind may truly destined to destroy itself as prophesied. It's starts with one person and a positive influence over others, Brothers and Sisters. I don't mean to get all types of self righteous, but it's true. Mankind as a whole must change or we are simply dooming ourselves.


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

*my thread*



Owzy said:


> I have already been through this with Victor, I was proved wrong.
> 
> He is a real person in a real place....
> 
> I have thought about this since and half the keepers on here have never posted pictures of themselves and would also probably refuse if they were asked so it's not that strange. In fact they have as was proved by Dunnys latest thread.


this thread was the reason i put that thread up. i thought it would be nice to c peeps with there snakes. pluss it would settle the argument of who's for real. i dont see why people should have to prove it in the first place. but with all the phantoms u never know whos word to take and that can be dangerous. one guy said all the venomous keepers know each other so why prove it. i keep venomous and dont know every1. this would just distingquish who we all should be listening to and who we shouldnt. as i said though its up to u even pics of u working with venomous anywhere. doesnt have to be ur own but would prefer if it was. as i say any1 can say they keep and any1 can use google as vl prooved.


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## snappingchap (Jul 31, 2010)

my problem is bum advise, i wont apologise for my actions i will however back down so things dont get any nastier, i find problems with giving out help to people who ask for it and actually misleading them or steeribg them in the wrong direction.

i dont confess to be an expert, im far from that, there are people on here who are considerably more knowlagable than me, however, if im going to quote on a thread its from my own experiences. i dont google, if im stuck myself there are a couple here i know well and would ask them, i already know of people i wouldnt listen to.

this forum should be used like a library in some senses, take in the advise and sort fact from fiction, most books have pictures of their authors on, mine will have pictures of me with my own stuff soon enough.

i have had a dwa in the past and kept numerous species i have already gone through the same (more expensive) route and am once again a keeper even though i dont yet have a lot.

i dont think its essential to personalise profiles and do understand why some dont want their pictures all over the net, very understandable with species kept etc.

however in the same breath its good to actually put faces to names and as dunny said, good to see you working with hots even if it isnt your own.

i dont see the point in giving out any kind of advise if it is not from personal experiences, even though keeping the same species of anomal can give you diferent results from animal to animal. however, when asking for assistance any help from these types of personal experience can be priceless and the diference between possibly life and death, predominantly to the animal but possibly even to ourselves considering species that are kept.

frustration gets the better of me at times especially in this case and i tend to get more and more angry when i get convinced that "something isnt quite right" in a forum, i appreciate iv not been on here long so i obviously have a lot to learn about how rfuk forums work.

:whistling2:


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## My Serpentine Mind (Apr 9, 2010)

Living in Florida I know a lot about venomous species, because we have them and encountering a venomous snake in the wild is NOT uncommon.

If I were to get a DWA (which I'm not) I'd go copperhead or coral snake. Even though corals can be dangerous most are mellow and their small size makes them less likely to be very dangerous. Copperheads have not killed anyone to date and their venom is not as potent. 

Just my 2 cents. No expert, no DWA, but I know a bit about them as i've said :2thumb:


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## RichardVB (May 22, 2010)

Bloody hell, why do people ruin threads by arguing?

I'm not a DWA keeper and don't intend to be. I keep bull snakes - hardly a dangeous wild animal, but I am interested by snakes generally and what is generally an interesting area of the forum is just full of people arguing.

Come on guys, the web is just another way of people communicating - presumably you don't discuss things like this with people in person, so try to keep it civil online too.

I will now stand down off the soap box.....


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