# puppy feeding



## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

My sister is wondering how much food her puppy should be getting, He's 10weeks, when she got him the wifey from the rescue was feeding him pedigree puppy food and he was getting a handful twice a day which suzanne weighed out and it's roughly 25g of food in each meal he's now getting 35g 3 times a day but she's worried that he's not getting enough food, first time puppy owner and it doesn't seem to matter what i say she's still worried. Not sure what he weighs atm. Any advice i can give her? Apart from to chill out!


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

is it a big puppy or small on the puppy packaging it tells you how much to feed it going on its weight


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Tbh i've personally never bothered with the back of the bags with my own dogs and just judge it by guessing, and i don't go by weight i only work in cups LOL. Suzanne has read the back and it's just confused her it says something about adult weight/breed and how often but as he's crossbreed we don't know exactly what size he's going to be. He's staffie X lab and she's gonna weigh him tommorrow.


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## alandkell (Nov 17, 2007)

we have puppies we breed them and what hes getting is ample enough puppies will just eat and eat and.etc......... any more than that she will be over feeding him. treats are good and fine if limited dont feed him your love show him it he'll be a much better pet


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

We fed our four small meals a day, I was told that it is hard to over feed a puppy because of growth?? Not sure, just repeating what I was told. I just judged by the dog itself.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

i fed mine 4x a day at that age.


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## loobylou (Nov 18, 2007)

I usually recommend feeding as much as the puppy wants to eat in a sitting 3 or 4 times a day. It should be hard to overfeed a puppy unless he's very very greedy!!You can use the info on the food as a rough guide but it does differ puppy to puppy. If he's sick then you know to feed him less next time!


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## alandkell (Nov 17, 2007)

the problem you will have with overfeeding a puppy is bloat and is alot more common than you would think especially prevalant in cockers that we breed but it happens in all breeds and can kill! this is first nhand advice from veterinarians on the internet and our own vet!: victory: three times a day will give you extremely healthy pups this food should be ctu down to 2 feeds at 6 months old ,obviously somewhat larger amounts then at 12 months old should be fed 1 good sized healthy balanced meal a day eukanuba is our chosen food stuff as it is 98% meat content. 








these are my puppies this week at 4 weeks old all gaining weight appropriately and on three meals per day!


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

I have a staffy pup she is about 7months old now and has always been on dry food. I have never measured anything she is not a greedy pup and eats very little so I fill her dish once a day and that usually lasts her till the same tome the next day.


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

He's now getting 40g of food in each meal so that's 120g a day total. He's a bit underweight (can see his ribs and hip bones sticking out) He was rescued and we don't know if he was like that when he got handed in or if he lost the weight at the rescue. If she left him to eat as much as he wanted in each sitting he would end up exploding LOL he's a pig and eats so fast he gets hiccups, she's started putting a stone in next to his food to slow him down. We're not sure if he's just greedy or it's coz he may have been neglected.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

gwinni said:


> My sister is wondering how much food her puppy should be getting, He's 10weeks, when she got him the wifey from the rescue was feeding him pedigree puppy food and he was getting a handful twice a day which suzanne weighed out and it's roughly 25g of food in each meal he's now getting 35g 3 times a day but she's worried that he's not getting enough food, first time puppy owner and it doesn't seem to matter what i say she's still worried. Not sure what he weighs atm. Any advice i can give her? Apart from to chill out!


 Depends what you are feeding him. If you are feeding complete food I recommend that you feed ad-lib. This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he eats what he wants when he wants, therefore not ending up famished between feeds or not geting enough. And secondly, a very important fact, by leaving food down all the time, the dog never develops food aggression. It is of low status and therefore not worth fighting over.
As it is a puppy, you will also find that because the food is always there, it never overeats like it would when you feed 4 small meals a day because by the time mealtime comes around, the pup is ravenous.
I recommend that all my new owners feed ad-lib and when they come here and see the rest of my pack and notice that I do not have one overweight dog, the fear that the dog will pig out and get fat is allayed. It takes the guesswork out of feeding a puppy. At 10 weeks, if you are feeding tinned and biscuit, then it should be on 4 feeds a day and not 2.
When complete food came out, people were told to feed it ad-lib. It was never designed to be gulped down frantically like dogs do with tinned food, it was designed to be picked and nibbled at throughout the day. Now, the bags don't mention feeding ad lib and tell you to measure out this or that amount. I never have. I put a washing up bowl full of it down and just top it up as necessary. I have 16 dogs which all share that bowl of food and none of them would dream of trying to guard it. Why would they? It isn't scarce, it's never going to be empty, they are never going to be hungry.
I even feed the rescues this way and initially, they pig out for a couple of weeks, but after that, they just eat like all the others. So I would say, be brave, feed ad lib and stop worrying cos the pup will get as much as it needs.I have fed this way for the last 30 years and I have never once had a fat dog, and I've had an awful lot of dogs in that time.


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## welsh_lady21 (Sep 9, 2008)

alandkell said:


> we have puppies we breed them and what hes getting is ample enough puppies will just eat and eat and.etc......... any more than that she will be over feeding him. treats are good and fine if limited dont feed him your love show him it he'll be a much better pet


 
I agree, my little one would eat n eat if we let him. I dont really treat him for doing good things now i try to tell him he's a good boy and make a fuss and so far so good! Beagles are known for piling on the pounds mind. Loves him tho he he!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

alandkell said:


> we have puppies we breed them and what hes getting is ample enough puppies will just eat and eat and.etc......... any more than that she will be over feeding him. treats are good and fine if limited dont feed him your love show him it he'll be a much better pet


 I can assure you that this is not the case. After 30 years bredding and showing dogs and feeding them ad-lib, I can assure you that none of mine ever ate and ate and none of the dogs I used to show and none of the dogs I have now, is overweight in the lightest and I am prepared to photograph every single one of them to prove that I am telling the truth. I have a big washing up bowl in the dog room which I keep topped up with food and nobody taks more than they need. Only people who feed a couple of times a day think that the dogs will pig out because of the way their dogs eat at mealtimes but they eat that way because they are starving.
I have advised many people to feed ad-lib and loads are afraid that they will overeat. Most do for a couple of weeks but after that, they can't face it. All my puppies go with instructions to feed ad-lib.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

if you feed ad lib isn't there more chance of gastric torsion?? as you dont no when your dog last ate and it may get excersised after eating?


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

fenwoman my dog also is a perfect weight for her age and is certainly not fat and she is fed like yours.
Baksy by feeding ad-lib the dog never eats enough really to cause a problem if you take it for a walk at least mine doesnt, she will have a couple of mouthfuls whenever she wants and I dont think I have ever seen her eat more than 5 mouthfuls in one go.
Gwinni the dog may be gulping the food down because he may have had to in the past and will have an anxiety problem witgh it trying to eat as much as he can before someone else eats it off him, however if you keep food always in the dish he may eat enough to give him belly ache and he may even be sick but he should soon learn that there is alway going to be food there for him so he doesnt have to fight for it and should settle down in a few days


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

basky said:


> if you feed ad lib isn't there more chance of gastric torsion?? as you dont no when your dog last ate and it may get excersised after eating?


 Actually less chance of it since they don't take a whole load in one go and fill their stomach. In 30 years of keeping large breed dogs which are prone to torsion (standard poodles, boxers, giant schnauzers, GSD) I have never had one incidence of it. I suppose it is a bit like me having 2 bits of toast and honey in the morning, then working hard, then a cheese roll at lunchtime, then going and mucking out. If I sat down to a full 3 course meal and lunch time there is no way I could go and muck out. I eat little and often, nibbling all day long which is also a reason that I only weigh 8 stones. I eat only enough in one go to stop feeling hungry. If I sit down to a proper meal in the evening, I tend to eat more than I need because it is nice, then have to spend the evening laying on the sofa because I ate too much. So the same would happen to the dogs if they got a big blow out once or twice a day.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

moonlight said:


> fenwoman my dog also is a perfect weight for her age and is certainly not fat and she is fed like yours.
> Baksy by feeding ad-lib the dog never eats enough really to cause a problem if you take it for a walk at least mine doesnt, she will have a couple of mouthfuls whenever she wants and I dont think I have ever seen her eat more than 5 mouthfuls in one go.
> Gwinni the dog may be gulping the food down because he may have had to in the past and will have an anxiety problem witgh it trying to eat as much as he can before someone else eats it off him, however if you keep food always in the dish he may eat enough to give him belly ache and he may even be sick but he should soon learn that there is alway going to be food there for him so he doesnt have to fight for it and should settle down in a few days


 That's exactly how it works. The problem is that people won't believe me when I tell them to try feeding ad-lib. They imagine that the dog will just eat and eat and eat and never stop as long as food is down. In reality after binging for a week or so, it does stop. I suppose it's a bit like any of us being allowed to eat as much as we liked of our favourite food. We would all make complete pigs of ourselves every day for a few days and if the favourite food was always there in abundance, eventually we'd just look at it and think "well actually, I don't really fancy that any more".
Sometimes it takes a leap of faith to believe someone when they tell you to feed ad-lib. In all my years keeping dogs, not only my own but taking in unwanted ones too, I honestly have never had an overweight dog and I will happily invite anyone who doubts me, to pop in for a visit and see them all for yourself :welcome:
The kettle's always on and I always have something nice to nibble on for visitors.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

In every book I have read and all the dog trainers I have spoke to they have all said not to leave food down all the time. Not sure why but it isn't because they might over eat.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

I was always told not to leave food down as it's very hard to judge how much the dog is eating. And if they start to lose weight it's hard to judge if it's lack of food they're taking in or some underlying condition. Not sure if that's why though Andy? Our old vet Thorpe told us this when we got Zack (cavalier king charles spaniel pup). I always wondered how it was hard to gage if you knew how much you were putting down, but just stuck to what we were told.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> In every book I have read and all the dog trainers I have spoke to they have all said not to leave food down all the time. Not sure why but it isn't because they might over eat.


 <shrug> and everyone I know feeds ad lib including vets, trainers, behaviorists so I'm not sure what that proves ? :? Unless someone could quantify why they said not to feed ad-lib, I would not just blindly take it as gospel. Who knows, perhaps some of the authors are very old and still think that people need to feed tinned meal and mixer, in which case, yes, you couldn't leave it down all day as it would get covered in flies and stink, that's if a dog didn't eat it all in one go which they do because of all the chemicals put in to make it appetising. Kibble however was never designed to be gulped down in one go and in fact can be dangerous if fed like that since a belly full of dry kibble and a good drink of water afterwards would lead the kibble to swell rapidly and cause possible bloat and torsion if not a bad tummy ache.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

Andy said:


> In every book I have read and all the dog trainers I have spoke to they have all said not to leave food down all the time. Not sure why but it isn't because they might over eat.


i think this is to do with training your dog and showing your boss because the dog is only allowed food when you say so (kinda like the alpha would have the best part of dead animal first then the ones below them can eat)....something along them lines, not very good at expaining myself.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I think its something to do with the dog thinking he is special because he has access to his food whenever he wants. From what i can gather their school of thought is the puppy will bond better with the person who provides their food. Also if a dog is challenging authority having access to food all the time can make it worse so they say.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

basky said:


> i think this is to do with training your dog and showing your boss because the dog is only allowed food when you say so (kinda like the alpha would have the best part of dead animal first then the ones below them can eat)....something along them lines, not very good at expaining myself.


i know what you mean, they also say to eat before your dog as an alpha dog would eat first in the pack.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> I was always told not to leave food down as it's very hard to judge how much the dog is eating. And if they start to lose weight it's hard to judge if it's lack of food they're taking in or some underlying condition. Not sure if that's why though Andy? Our old vet Thorpe told us this when we got Zack (cavalier king charles spaniel pup). I always wondered how it was hard to gage if you knew how much you were putting down, but just stuck to what we were told.


 It is simple to gauge how much food they are taking in by how often you have to refill the bowl. If you are refilling it regularly and the dog starts losing weight then obviously there is a problem, if you rarely have to refill it and the dog loses weight then obviously it isn't eating enough so you start to look at why it isn't eating. It isn't rocket science.
It's up to everyone how they feed their dogs of course, but if you prefer to read books and believe someone who has never attempted to feed ad-lib, over people who have done it sucessfully for decades, that's fine too :0)
Sadly, vet's don't know it all and sadly, some give misinformation. Personally I would rather put my trust in someone who was practicing what they preached than someone who just told me a thing even though they had no experience of it.
For instance, if someone came to me and said tht it was safe to stick a metal rod into a plug socket even though they had never done it themselves, and someone else came and told me that it wasn't safe and that they had tried it, I would trust the one with blackened hands and frizzled hair :lol2:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I was told not to leave food down at all times by someone who has kept and trained dogs for decades too. The Kennel Club also says not to leave food down at all times.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

basky said:


> i think this is to do with training your dog and showing your boss because the dog is only allowed food when you say so (kinda like the alpha would have the best part of dead animal first then the ones below them can eat)....something along them lines, not very good at expaining myself.


 Well in my pack of 16 (I think) dogs, I am alpha bitch. I have control over my dogs but they still get fed ad lib. As a result, I can put down k ibble, fresh meat, raw bones, whiole fresh rabbit, tripe, in fact anything and there are no fights, no snarls, nothing. Food is not high priority and not worth fighting over because there is always plenty available.
I still eat before them when I eat my main meal. They lay about waiting for me to finish as they get whatever is left, scraped off the plate onto the tiled floor.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Maybe its because you have 16 dogs that they are so well behaved as a pack? If someone has one dog in the household the dog has to learn where its place in the pack is from the humans alone.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> I think its something to do with the dog thinking he is special because he has access to his food whenever he wants. From what i can gather their school of thought is the puppy will bond better with the person who provides their food. Also if a dog is challenging authority having access to food all the time can make it worse so they say.


 I can see where 'they' are coming from but their thinking is flawed. Food should not be speciail. If it is special it is worth fighting over and defending, hence food guarding.
I provide something extra special, it is the leavings off my plate in the evening. The dogs are fed and not hungry but the biggest treat in the world is human food from pack leader's plate once I am finished, be it a few peas and gravy with some tiny bits of boiled spuds, or just a few scraps of fat and melted butter. Even though nobody gets more than a mere taste on their tongue, it is the biggest treat ever, simply because it was off my plate.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Horses for courses i suppose everyone has different methods for keeping their dogs. I feed mine twice a day and he is not possesive of his food. If he was becoming possessive though I would certainly try feeding ad-lib.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> I was told not to leave food down at all times by someone who has kept and trained dogs for decades too. The Kennel Club also says not to leave food down at all times.


 And the kennel club says that it is ok to breed dogs that are so deformed that they can't breath properly, or walk properly and which have terrible health problems. They also say that puppies which don't conform to a certain look are not wanted.
As I say, you accept whichever advice you feel happy with.
I would be most interested to hear why your trainer advised not to leave food down all the time and if he or she has actual personal experience with feeding ad-lib or just says not to because he personally doesn't like the idea?
You see I can accpet someone telling me something, if they can back it up with reasons and personal experience. My late father told me to take with a pinch of salt, anything told to me, unless the person could give me why's and wherefore's.
As I say, I can give why's and wherefore's and not just one or two dogs for a couple of years. We are talking keeping over 10 dogs at a time, some my own, others temporary visitors either rescues or fosters for around 30 years. Surely that number of dogs over that many years, should give you some sort of idea that it works? 
I would be most interested to hear your trainer friend's comments about that number of dogs over that length of time.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy said:


> Maybe its because you have 16 dogs that they are so well behaved as a pack? If someone has one dog in the household the dog has to learn where its place in the pack is from the humans alone.


  The number of animals in the pack makes no difference, whether there is one dog and 3 humans or 16 dogs and one human, it is a pack.
My first ever dog over 30 years ago, was a toy poodle. I was married and had a son. That was when kibbles first seemed to take off although there wasn't the choice there is nowadays, Vitalin and beta were about the only ones easily available over here back in the early 70's. I fed the toy poodle ad-lib even then and within the pack of 3 humans and one dog, he was at the bottom. He also got table leavings and in a dog's mind table leavings from pack leaders plate are somehow different to the boring old kibble which is there all the time. Perhaps the table scraps make the difference? I duno. 
It's obvious you doubt the feeding method I and others practice. That's up to you. All I know is that I can take in (and have done) an old lady's pampered little lap dog who has been allowed to rule the roost and eat what it wanted, or a dog who is chucked out and hasn't known from one day to the next whether it will get food or not, and all of them, will take easily to the ad-lib feeding regime, none of them displays food guarding and none of them gets fat. Chalky (the dog who was thrown out of a car outside the cottage this January) was a right little sod with food when he arrived. I had to have 2 bowls down, onoe in the dog room and one in the living room until he got the idea that food was never in short supply here and he didn't need to waste energy guarding it. Now, 9 months on, he will happily share, lay asleep beside a bowl full of food while other come and eat. H e will take one fresh and bloody bone from the pile on bone day (get them by the sack full from the abbatoir in the next village) and go and eat it laying next to other dogs eating their bones too.
You can doubt it all if that's what makes you feel comfortable. I can only say what my own personal experience has shown not only me, but the dozens of people who phone the advice line with food problems and which I have advised to start ad-lib feeding and who no longer have food problems.
Arguing against something you have no experience of and for which you can offer no argument other than "someone I spoke to once or read about once said such and such" is just plain confrontational. It's arguing for the sake of arguing. Debate is one thing. I like debate, even if it gets heated as people can put their point of view across. Arguing for the sake of it is destructive and so, I feel I have put my point across, based on experience and lots of it. There is nothing I can add to it so unless someone wants to know about some specific thing, I won't comment further on the subject.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

All I said was what I have been told, by someone who has kept dogs for alot longer than me or you, and seen in every book I have read about dogs. No need to get all defensive! I haven't said I doubt your methods and even said I would use it if I thought my dog was getting food aggresive.


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> I was always told not to leave food down as it's very hard to judge how much the dog is eating.


If you fill the dish every morning with fresh food then you can see how much has been eaten


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> I always wondered how it was hard to gage if you knew how much you were putting down,


Hence why I followed with that^. To me it was kind of obvious how much your animal was eating but the vet said no.. as I was three or four years old at the time, I did as I was told by the vet and my mum :lol2:. None of our dogs have ever been food aggressive/posessive, and none have ever wolfed their food down like they are starving, so I've never seen a reason to change how we've fed. Like Andy said though horses for courses.


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks for everyones replies, I will pass on to my sis what you've said fenwoman. He's on pedigree puppy complete kibble stuff atm as that's what the kennel had him on. I kinda used to do the ad lib with jack, and he'd just help himself when he felt like it, still does he usually eats half his dinner and then goes back to it every now and again for a mouthful, but bailey scoffs his in one go then tries to eat what's left of jacks dinner.


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

I've worked as a kennel hand before and agree completely with fenwoman, I have given this advice to many people who have had feeding problems with their overweight/ food posessive dogs and Ive had some fantastic feedback! I feed my dog, and cats this way none of them scrap, none are overweight and Ive never had any with illnesses like bloat etc, as long as your feeding a well balanced complete diet. But one word of warning some foods can cause a dog to be more overactive, bit like giving smarties to a child each meal, and I believe this is the excessive colouring they put into the food to make it look more interesting for the human to look at eg: pedigree chum, bakers etc, it would be interesting to know if anyone else that has dealt with dogs has found this? 

Corenne


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

I have always fed my dogs on eukanuba


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## gwinni (Oct 8, 2007)

Foxymumma yes i agree with you about food colourings in dog food, if it make kids hyper why not dogs? I won't feed mine any food that's diff colours like bakers is the stuff i get is brown they certainly don't care and neither do i!
Fenwoman just to let you know we started ad lib feeding today my sis let me give him food while she was at work i think she's worried about doing it so that's why she got me to do it! I soaked the food first so if he did gulp it down it wouldn't swell as much when he ate it. And i'm glad i did as he ate first lot of 200g of food i put out so i soaked more and put it down which he happily started eating and then gave up! He did not look happy after that but didn't eat anymore, was really thirsty though he was whining he had such sore stomach. Do you mind the old adverts about famine in ethiopia? With the skinny kids with huge bellies, well that's exactly what he looked like! I warned her about how big his belly was but she was shocked and really worried that he'd get a blockage but i've told her he'll be fine and he'll hopefully have learned something today!!!


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

gwinni said:


> Foxymumma yes i agree with you about food colourings in dog food, if it make kids hyper why not dogs? I won't feed mine any food that's diff colours like bakers is the stuff i get is brown they certainly don't care and neither do i!


Its quite suprising how some of the foods taste too!, I know I know people now think 'ugh thats disgusting she ate dog food!' BUT we just wanted to test out different makes to see how they tasted and to compare them... BETA for instance is HORRIBLY salty, how thats good for a dog I just dont know if too much salt is bad for us then its going to affect dogs in the same way. PChum wasnt much better in the taste stakes tbh, I think the nicest tasting food was James wellbeloved. We never did get round to trying tinned... :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

FoxyMumma said:


> I've worked as a kennel hand before and agree completely with fenwoman, I have given this advice to many people who have had feeding problems with their overweight/ food posessive dogs and Ive had some fantastic feedback! I feed my dog, and cats this way none of them scrap, none are overweight and Ive never had any with illnesses like bloat etc, as long as your feeding a well balanced complete diet. But one word of warning some foods can cause a dog to be more overactive, bit like giving smarties to a child each meal, and I believe this is the excessive colouring they put into the food to make it look more interesting for the human to look at eg: pedigree chum, bakers etc, it would be interesting to know if anyone else that has dealt with dogs has found this?
> 
> Corenne


 The colourants have a bearing on it but more importantly the protein levels do. I am a label reader and because I have elderly dogs and don't want them to have kidney problems, I feed a low protien kibble. I add protein to the youngsters diets by way of red meat, eggs etc. Too high a protein will lead to hyperactivity. I use a cheap and cheerful kibble called awkwrights. It's made by Gilpa. It has 18% protein which is low. Even the so called 'superior' kibbles are based very much on what the lower end stuff is based on and that is maize and cereals.
What humans tend not to understand is that dogs as a species, evolved to thrive on a fairly low quality diet. They will eat carrion, other animals poo, vegetable matter and any manner of stuff. So my £6.99 a sack stuff is as good for my dogs as someone elses £35 a bag stuff. I don't feed only kibble though. When I got Ursa, I understood the need for raw meat and bones in order for him to grow properly. Even though he came with royal canin baby puppy giant breed kibble, when I read the label, it wasn't much different to awkwrights. All marketing hype. So, I leave down kibble all the time, plus they get eggs, milk, freshly killed cockerels, tripe, whole rabbits,fresh bones, raw cabbage, carrots, swedes, apples, stale bread and anything else suitable.
Check the ;abels and check the protein levels, too high and you'll have a hyper dog or if you have an old dog, you will be overloading his kidneys and perhaps shortening his life. And on that note, cut out hide treats too.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

moonlight said:


> I have always fed my dogs on eukanuba


 :shock:
I wouldn't use the stuff, I like dogs and cats too much.
IAMS and animal testinghttp://www.iamscruelty.com


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

moonlight said:


> I have always fed my dogs on eukanuba


Oh god dont buy that stuff! they test on animals!



fenwoman said:


> The colourants have a bearing on it but more importantly the protein levels do. I am a label reader and because I have elderly dogs and don't want them to have kidney problems, I feed a low protien kibble. I add protein to the youngsters diets by way of red meat, eggs etc. Too high a protein will lead to hyperactivity. I use a cheap and cheerful kibble called awkwrights. It's made by Gilpa. It has 18% protein which is low. Even the so called 'superior' kibbles are based very much on what the lower end stuff is based on and that is maize and cereals.
> What humans tend not to understand is that dogs as a species, evolved to thrive on a fairly low quality diet. They will eat carrion, other animals poo, vegetable matter and any manner of stuff. So my £6.99 a sack stuff is as good for my dogs as someone elses £35 a bag stuff. I don't feed only kibble though. When I got Ursa, I understood the need for raw meat and bones in order for him to grow properly. Even though he came with royal canin baby puppy giant breed kibble, when I read the label, it wasn't much different to awkwrights. All marketing hype. So, I leave down kibble all the time, plus they get eggs, milk, freshly killed cockerels, tripe, whole rabbits,fresh bones, raw cabbage, carrots, swedes, apples, stale bread and anything else suitable.
> Check the ;abels and check the protein levels, too high and you'll have a hyper dog or if you have an old dog, you will be overloading his kidneys and perhaps shortening his life. And on that note, cut out hide treats too.


I've recently been reading up on the BARF/RMB feeding and found it very interesting, Im seriously considering giving it a go, just need to get a bigger freezer!,lol, do you know of any good books or sites I can use to read more indepth into the raw feeding? Ive understood gilpa to be a very understated brand that not many people know of, Id personally never heard of it till I started working with dogs, but only ever heard good about them, chappie also. At the moment my staffy gets chudleys adlib with various cooked meats, fish, veg so hopefully the transition to raw shouldnt be too difficult


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

Now I never knew that! looks like I am gonna have to change her food. What dry food do you all feed your lot on?


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

moonlight said:


> Now I never knew that! looks like I am gonna have to change her food. What dry food do you all feed your lot on?


I'm using dodson and horrell, chudleys atm as that was all I could get me hands on, Gilpa is good, Ive used chappie too. everyone has their preference though and my dog is seriously fussy. Im just wary of coloured food, as it makes my staffy hyperactive. Looking into the raw diet (BARF/RMB) as its more natural and has more benefits than commercial food, fingers crossed that she'll eat it!! :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

I mentioned the one I use. Awkwrights. Low protein, no colourants, just a good basic no frills kibble. If I couldn't get that I would use Dr John's Silver which again is low protein and no colourants and I have a feeling it's also a Gilpa one.
My dogs thrive on it, even the little dogs manage to eat it ok. All have glossy coats and supple skin. I have recommended it to scores of people who have changed and noticed a good physical appearance, plus less hyperactivity in their dogs too
Dogs evolved to thrive on low quality food but we are brainwashed by the companies who want to sell us expensive food, into thinking that unless we pay £40 a sack, we are practically animal abusers and obviously don't love our dogs as much as we ought to.
I pay on average £7 a bag (15kg).
Nerys and Rory have been here and seen my dogs and I'm sure they will vouch for how well they look as would anyone else who knows my pack.
Don't be influenced by those who stand to gain financially.Ad men are all liars.


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

i have a 4 month old gsd, can anyone give me a rough feeding schedule for a barf diet. i really wanna do it but cause she's so young i don't wanna make any mistake as she's growing..she's currently on royal canin german shepherd junior but isn't to fussed about it.


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

basky said:


> i have a 4 month old gsd, can anyone give me a rough feeding schedule for a barf diet. i really wanna do it but cause she's so young i don't wanna make any mistake as she's growing..she's currently on royal canin german shepherd junior but isn't to fussed about it.


might be better to ask on the barf/rmb thread? Im still reading up on it so cant advise you sorry! but Im getting a rottie pup this weekend and would like to find out what her diet could possibly be if I tried it too, and my staffy who is 2 yrs old now, Good luck with trying it too!! : victory:


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

thanks


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

basky said:


> i have a 4 month old gsd, can anyone give me a rough feeding schedule for a barf diet. i really wanna do it but cause she's so young i don't wanna make any mistake as she's growing..she's currently on royal canin german shepherd junior but isn't to fussed about it.


 The biggest mistake you can make when feeding a large breed is to feed them on kibble. Proper raw meat and bones are needed to make a large dog. It's the reason I started back on barf, when I got my Rottweiler X Newfoundland. I saw some scrawny purebred kibble fed newfies in town and was determined that mine should grow properly, and he has. He now weighs 65 kg of solid muscle and bone and not an ounce of fat on him!


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## basky (Dec 11, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> The biggest mistake you can make when feeding a large breed is to feed them on kibble. Proper raw meat and bones are needed to make a large dog. It's the reason I started back on barf, when I got my Rottweiler X Newfoundland. I saw some scrawny purebred kibble fed newfies in town and was determined that mine should grow properly, and he has. He now weighs 65 kg of solid muscle and bone and not an ounce of fat on him!


bloody hell.....this is the thing now, she looks scrawny


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

basky said:


> bloody hell.....this is the thing now, she looks scrawny


 Get her on good grub such as she would eat if she lived wild. Only the fit and strong survive in the wild after all. Incidentally, if anyone reading this thread, lives in a rural area, a good source of wholesome food is rabbits. Ask if anyone goes lamping or ferreting. Try to get .22 head shot rabbits instead of shotgun peppered ones. Ask for them just to be 'paunched' (guts taken out) and feed whole, fur, head, feet, ears, the lot. You will not find a better food, not intensively reared, no chance of growth hormones or antibiotics in the meat, just plain grass eating meat. This how important it is to gut load your feeder insects. Whell rabbits are healthily gut loaded, whereas chicken carcasses will have been intensively reared and often had residues of antibiotics or other stuff in them. Rabbit carcasses are all natural, the fur provides valuable roughage, the bones calcium and phosphorous <sp> for building good bones, and of course the meat is protein, again needed to build bulk (think body builders protein drinks).
You can normally expect to pay around £1 each for rabbits and a good big one will last a young GSD sized dog for 2 days if it also gets things like cheapo kibble left down and table scraps. Otherwise, try livestock markets which may have sales of game.
Feeding well doesn't have to mean paying loads of money. I am the queen of mean and we all eat like kings here. Good wholesome grub and plenty of it.


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