# Self Appointed Experts



## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I need a soap box.

One issue is this business of trusting people simply because they are held in high regard. The other issue is the raw nerve of animal cruelty.


NOBODY can EVER be an EXPERT in animals of any kind. There is no such bloody thing. 

We are all equal and all learning, just at varying degrees of experience.

I can't stand it any longer - TOO many people out there put themselves on a pedestal then it ends in disaster. 

I earlier described it as some kind of Hitler Syndrome. Well you know how people commited those atrocities simply because Hitler told them to? Its the same. If people tell the public they are an expert in animals for long enough people simply believe it.

Badness usually follows in the form of crap poorly regurgitated second hand information being given out all the way to such people being trusted and never questioned even when they are commiting cruelty against animals.

Please don't feed people's ego or hold anyone in high regard. Please don't take anybody's information or advice as gospel. It is only their opinion, not fact. Collect your animal husbandry info from many sources and make up your own mind. Trust your own judgement.


On a slightly different subject - the subject of hoarding - everyone has the potential to be a hoarder behind closed doors and people we know who once may have been good keepers can turn into hoarders. Please, if you know anyone with an animal collection you feel they may not be able to cope with, don't ignore the issue and let it lead to deaths. 

If a well known person can commit such neglect then we've failed dismally as a community for not realising and helping.

Its not about personal issues between people its about not allowing animals to die alone in the dark starving and malnourished in filth.


**PLEASE do not mention names or companies in this thread it is not here to talk about anyone in particular it is here to talk about community/trust/being aware of potential cruelty**


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## Luxy (Mar 31, 2010)

:notworthy:

Incredibly well put. I've seen some "experts" in the making here, keyboard warriors who know better than EVERYONE how to raise animals, and I'm glad to see someone calling them up on it.

On the issue of hoarding, it is an illness and something someone can slip into, possibly without being aware of it themselves.
But as a community, it's important to work together to prevent this kind of behaviour escalating into full blown cruelty.


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

pouchie said:


> i need a soap box.
> 
> One issue is this business of trusting people simply because they are held in high regard. The other issue is the raw nerve of animal cruelty.
> 
> ...


amen!


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

Whats even worse is when they profess themselves to be experts and actually believe it.

Neil


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I have many years experiance with cats and rescue organisations but NEVER would I consider myself an expert as I dont believe such people exist. Experiance is great if shared but can be very dangerous if you cant actually see the animals in question.
Excellent post Pouchie:no1:


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## TobyOne (May 18, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> I need a soap box.
> 
> One issue is this business of trusting people simply because they are held in high regard. The other issue is the raw nerve of animal cruelty.
> 
> ...


Well said :2thumb:.
Define a hoarder please?
Just because you hoard in my opinion is no excuse for keeping animals in horrible conditions.There are many people on here that have way over what alot of people would call the ordinary amount of animals.Im talking 20+ reps/snakes and an array of different exotic mammals,not neseceraly all the animals are for breeding some are pets.Would these people be classed as hoarders.If so should we expect bad husbandry from these people.I personally dont think so.There is just no excuse for neglect and cruelty.If the amount of animals you have gets to much that you can no longer care for them properly then you re home some of them with people who can.You certainatly dont get more.Where is the line drawn when some one goes from wanting lots of different animals and being lazy in looking after them to having a mental dissorder of hoarding that many animals that you can no longer keep then in good conditions.
I am not saying that Hoarding cannot be a mental dissorder i just think there is an almighty grey area where hoarding as a mental illness,animal cruelty and lazyness is.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

TobyOne said:


> Well said :2thumb:.
> Define a hoarder please?.


Good point made.

I wasn't talking about people with large animal collections. 

Hoarding to me is where somebody 'collects' animals and is out of control, impulsively taking on more and more.

There are many excellent, exemplary keepers with a large well maintained collection of much loved animals but these people are different in that they carefully consider any new additions, considering whether they know how to care for and whether they have the capacity to care for them to a high standard.

I think it would be well worth discussing what make a hoarder and whether it is a mental illness or an excuse.


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## Luxy (Mar 31, 2010)

I think sometimes animal keeping can be a dangerous pastime. Hoarding is a major issue, but a lot of it comes down to this - it's a hobby. Like reading. If have a short attention span and you get bored of a book, you can put it aside, for years if necessary. When people get tired of feeding, cleaning and socialising their pets, and decide to ignore them for a while, the result isn't the same as a book gathering a bit of dust. It's the kind of cruelty that results in pets starving to death or dying of disease and dehydration. With hoarding, people take on too many animals to care for, but they still love them in their way, and try to provide for them. If it's a hobby which people grow tired of, the resulting neglect can be far far worse.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

Pouchie well said :notworthy: One of the things that pisses me off about this forum is the self appointed experts and their wee brown nosers who follow their every post and kiss their ar*e. Whatever animals you have you should always be learning how to provide the best for them. Sad but once again because of humans animals have suffered :bash:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Nice one Pouchie, well said! :notworthy:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I have to say that generally this forum is much better than any otherrecall for not really having people able to get into the comfortable position of being too well respected to be questioned. 

Most forums there are people who you cannot dare to question without half the forum getting on the case against you. likely due to the size of here, or the constant tide of newer members. Maybe it is just this mammal sections/general pet sections I frequent the most that is like this


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## droopal (May 11, 2010)

The problem that there may be 'no experts' but there are those that still stand and judge, regardless, and in my humble opinion, that is just as bad. I have always thought it isnt about what we know its about how we can educate, and education doesnt mean throwing it down somebody face. It also doesnt mean standing there huffing and puffing and ripping somebody apart when they ask for help. We did all start somewhere, and I defy anybody to say, those with experience, didnt make mistakes. What I find really sad is the unwillingness of those that do know helping those that dont, and that I find intolerable. You see it everywhere, and it comes out in a holier than though attitude. 

I have to admit, what has happened has deeply affected me, but I cannot find sympathy for any of those involved, and I have made my position clear on that, animals suffered, and didnt need to, but will lessons be learnt from it. I doubt it very much, unless people can change their attitudes. 

You want to change things be willing to teach and help. Doesnt matter how many times the same questions are asked, answer them. Depending on how a visitor sees answers being given, will depend on how they learn and in the end, how well the animal is kept. Be abusive, and its not the new persons fault they make mistakes. 

When that happens, you attract people who want to learn then you have achieved something, but until then, bitching and abuse isnt helping. Too much of it is going already. Its not getting anybody anywhere, and its not helping anybody.


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## laura_aldridge1987 (Dec 6, 2009)

Its very true about forums concerning animals (and most other forums too) - people seem to find confidence to say things they never would in real life just because of the protection of being on a computer, and that is how 'witch hunts' begin in my eyes. I find myself hesitant to post sometimes in case somebody gets on their high horse and says 'that's not how you should do that'. Everybody has their own ways of doing things and will take advice if they are truly concerned about their animal's welfare, but too often it isn't just 'gentle' advice and just plain telling people their wrong. Everybody has to start somewhere, as has been said. Obviously it is a completely different case when absolute neglect is the case, but that is when the people who think themselves to be experts need to take themselves down a peg and look at the bigger picture before having a go at someone (or before something shocking is revealed about themselves!!)- everybody can take advice from other people's experiences, and that is what these forums should be about.


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## the count (Sep 21, 2009)

FreddiesMum said:


> One of the things that pisses me off about this forum is the self appointed experts and their wee brown nosers who follow their every post and kiss their ar*e.


LMAO tell it like it is:2thumb:


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Do these self proclaimed experts also include people who have books published??


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Fixx said:


> Do these self proclaimed experts also include people who have books published??


having a book published does not make you an expert no...........
not when it comes to animals, I could write a book full of utter rubbish, fill it with pretty pictures and take it to a publisher (who would not be an expert either ) if he thought the book would sell well he would publish it :whistling2:


I have history books here with inaccuracy's in for example.


People who self proclaim themselves to be experts in any field can be the ones that refuse to take on board any new information, or accept that there are better or simply other successful ways.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Fixx said:


> Do these self proclaimed experts also include people who have books published??


If that is aimed at me have you read my GPR care guide???

Doubtfully.

If you had you would know that at the beginning it states that the reader should pick up any book that mine pre-dates because we all still have a lot to learn about Gambians and their behaviour/ diet etc etc

It is meant as a guide and throughout makes it clear that none of the contents are fact and that I am just a keeper & breeder not a scientist.

Personally I think books/care guides/forums/information of any kind can only be a good thing if like I said in my original post - we all realise that nobody is an expert! (Why do I feel like I am repeating myself :whistling2

If we all shut the door and ignore each other we will all make the same mistakes with our animals. 

So thankyou for your comments Ray but I won't be penalised for sharing information when I for one am always sure to give opinion not FACT.


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

I dont beleive there is anything such as a self appointed expert, i mearly see it as an supposedly intelligent person with a vast following of lemmings.
Knowledge they may well have in abundance, but its always the lemmings that place them on the pedestal.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

pam b said:


> I dont beleive there is anything such as a self appointed expert, i mearly see it as an supposedly intelligent person with a vast following of lemmings.
> Knowledge they may well have in abundance, but its always the lemmings that place them on the pedestal.


I think thats what I am trying to say.

If nobody holds a person in high regard and everyone is treated equally then this can't happen. People can't give duff information that is 100% trusted just because of 'who they are' and people can't get away with murder, like animal cruelty, just because they are too well respected to be questioned.


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

Pouchie said:


> I think thats what I am trying to say.
> 
> If nobody holds a person in high regard and everyone is treated equally then this can't happen. People can't give duff information that is 100% trusted just because of 'who they are' and people can't get away with murder, like animal cruelty, just because they are too well respected to be questioned.


Exactly it, its a sad fact of life, and an early warning for those who dream of pedestal placement and purposesly surround themselves with lemmings.:lol2:


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