# Opinions please (Leo)



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

We have a Leo that was bought as a Rev.Stripe tangerine Tremper albino het RAPTOR. Now, as time has gone on her rev. stripe has near enough gone, only the last few trace left now, so near enough an APTOR het RAPTOR.
I am attempting to find a male for her, but not sure which way to go, Either a full RAPTOR, or find a nice RERS or similar to bring the stripe back.

What would you choose? I'll try and get some decent pics of her later to add to the thread.


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

thats a toughy, i'd have trouble deciding too. cant you get another RERS het raptor lol


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

This is her, sorry for the poor pic


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

about_a_girluk said:


> thats a toughy, i'd have trouble deciding too. cant you get another RERS het raptor lol


Well, could do, but if I am going to go the RAPTOR route, I want actual patternless RAPTORS lol, to many patterned out there for my liking lol


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## Lisasgeckonursery (Feb 14, 2008)

yeah you're right its just too difficult to decide lol, i'm seeing a lot of patterned RAPTORS about atm too. mine has a striped tail but is apparently a RAPTOR :whistling2:although she's still young so nearly lost all of her back pattern. 
the ones that hatch totally patternless are stunning.


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

I thought it was common for the appearance of the stripe to fade out as they got older?
It should change the fact that it is a stripe, that doesn't change genetically even if you can't see it any more.

Kind of like mack snows are mack snows, even if they grow up to have almost normal colours (yucky!) they are still genetically a mack.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Ally said:


> I thought it was common for the appearance of the stripe to fade out as they got older?
> It should change the fact that it is a stripe, that doesn't change genetically even if you can't see it any more.
> 
> Kind of like mack snows are mack snows, even if they grow up to have almost normal colours (yucky!) they are still genetically a mack.


True, but the patternless in RAPTOR is a line bred reduction in the reverse stripe. So, either I carry this on and get a nice RAPTOR to go the patternless route, or I go for a nice reverse stripe T_albino tangerine, and try and bring the striping out in the offspring. 

Decisions, decisions..


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Eya pal. D`ya know I`ve looked at this a few times already today - even wrote a couple of replies but didn`t sound right so deleted it (sorry )! The Q actually mashed my brain up (and still is haha!)
Right, if you get a Raptor then you will have the opportunity to produce Raptors and all the other morphs that will come with the pairing ie Rev Stripes, Jungles etc. And the RERS pairing will produce pretty much the same results (as the RERS will undoubtably have come from Raptor lines so will be still be Poly` het patternless stripe.)
But I suppose it depends on what you are after producing. Pairing her with a really good stripe will give a much better chance of getting really good RS babies - much more than pairing her with a Raptor. She is still a Rev Stripe - but for some reason she just hasn`t kept hold of it very well - but if it was a strong enough influence on her in her younger days, then it will be strong enough to come out again - especially if strengthened by a quality RERS. 
The part that has got my brain working overtime, is whether it is technically possible for you girl to go from a Rev Stripe to a Patty Stripe (which is what she`d need to be to be an Aptor), or whether - even if the stripe had disappeared - she would STILL be technically a rev stripe (though she must be?!)
Jeez, I`ve probably thrown up more questions than answers here! But in a nutshell - personally - I would go for the RERS coz, if that`s what you are after, then that`s what`s more likely to come out in the young (seeings as they seem to be better as line-bred were at all possible)!!! Hope that helps (even if not, at least you can take comfort in the fact my brain is frazzling now haha!!!)


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Just seen her pic mate (after writing all that!), and she is definitely still a beautiul reverse stripe!!! Gorgeous and those heading marking are just class. Go for a RERS male, and try to accentuate all the very best features of her (and the potential dad). Still plenty of stripe to work with.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Cheers Tony, patternless stripe IS patternles reverse stripe, so she is close to APTOR.Thing is, I don't want to go RERS male, then end up with poorer RS babies if you get me.


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

MrMike said:


> True, but the patternless in RAPTOR is a line bred reduction in the reverse stripe. So, either I carry this on and get a nice RAPTOR to go the patternless route, or I go for a nice reverse stripe T_albino tangerine, and try and bring the striping out in the offspring.
> 
> Decisions, decisions..


I see... As much as I can deal with other Leo morphs RAPTORs have always been a bit too complicated for me! I guess I could sit and figure it all out but I prefer the black and white end of the scale - snows and that. They're such a huge combination of selective and recessive traits!

Best of luck with the decision - I'd be no help as I'd just pick a pretty partner and not worry too much about the genetics!


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

What I`m wondering though - is it the `other` patternless gene (the different one from Murphy`s) that makes an Aptor or does this very gene make the reverse stripe a patternless stripe?Coz I`ve always thought that it was a seperate patternless gene that went into Raptor - and this gene actually brought the stripe/jungle gene along with it.
TBH as you know, there isn`t much difference at all between a Raptor and a RERS - so whichever you choose, you are gonna be on to a winner!!!


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Ally said:


> I see... As much as I can deal with other Leo morphs RAPTORs have always been a bit too complicated for me! I guess I could sit and figure it all out but I prefer the black and white end of the scale - snows and that. They're such a huge combination of selective and recessive traits!
> 
> Best of luck with the decision - I'd be no help as I'd just pick a pretty partner and not worry too much about the genetics!


Thats exactly what the missus says, maybe I should just let her choose a pretty one and stop worrying :lol2:



funky1 said:


> What I`m wondering though - is it the `other` patternless gene (the different one from Murphy`s) that makes an Aptor or does this very gene make the reverse stripe a patternless stripe?Coz I`ve always thought that it was a seperate patternless gene that went into Raptor - and this gene actually brought the stripe/jungle gene along with it.
> TBH as you know, there isn`t much difference at all between a Raptor and a RERS - so whichever you choose, you are gonna be on to a winner!!!


Yeah, the patternless in RAPTOR/APTOR is Patternless reverse stripe, a polygenetic trait. Seen some stunners over in the states... none here as yet take my eye. May have to chat up someone going to Hamm :2thumb:


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

Some ones going to be homeless :whistling2: :lol2:

I'd go for a Raptor just personal preference!​


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

sam12345 said:


> Some ones going to be homeless :whistling2: :lol2:
> 
> I'd go for a Raptor just personal preference!​


I'm working on that aspect of it :whistling2:


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

MrMike said:


> This is her, sorry for the poor pic


IMO the only patternless reverse stripe is just that so if it doesn't wipe 100%.You could go with broken reverse striped or Reverse strain jungle.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

I was thinking along the lines of this guy
http://geckosetc.com/images/avail/Available Pictures/RPM10_61_600.jpg

If only I could find something similar in the UK lol


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

So 'patternless' in APTORS/RAPTORS isn't actually proper patternless at all?!:?:


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Crownan said:


> So 'patternless' in APTORS/RAPTORS isn't actually proper patternless at all?!:?:


Not Muprhy patternless no.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Well that really takes quite a lot out of the RAPTOR and APTOR for me. They arent as 'clever' as I thought. Never been a huge fan, but always fascinated by the genetics. Much less so now.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Crownan said:


> Well that really takes quite a lot out of the RAPTOR and APTOR for me. They arent as 'clever' as I thought. Never been a huge fan, but always fascinated by the genetics. Much less so now.


Out of curiosity why? The patternless in APTOR was harder to achieve then Murphy Patternless.


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