# Hamm Deaths



## frog boy (Mar 16, 2008)

I wish to contact people who have lost animals whilst travelling back from the Hamm reptile show

plaese PM me


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

what on their own trips or via organised transport??


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## Got Milks (Sep 3, 2007)

Hi Frog Boy, 
Unless you give details as to why you want this information I do not see why anyone will PM you. You could be out there to do harm to the hobby or harm a business that is doing its upmost to boost an already frowned upon hobby. Dan


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## frog boy (Mar 16, 2008)

I lost animals returning on an organised trip.
I wish to talk to others that have lost animals in an attempt to make sure this won't happen again

I agree that stories like these are not good for the hobby but the only way to prevent them is through education and learning for us all.


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## jonnydotcom (Sep 8, 2006)

i went to Hamm last year and never had any loses but some-one did but this was due to over packed poly boxes.

If this thread is intended to have dig's at the organizers of the trips i think it would be best done through Pm's or email's.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

It is well know that there were problems in March and I believe on the later one.

The thread was pulled after "pressure" was put on the forum organisers if this is not the case i apologise.

If anyone wants to contact me about my experiences feel free to do so.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> It is well know that there were problems in March and I believe on the later one.
> 
> The thread was pulled after "pressure" was put on the forum organisers if this is not the case i apologise.
> 
> If anyone wants to contact me about my experiences feel free to do so.


 

If you also contact

Reptile Forums UK - View Profile: TSKA Rory Matier

at the time of the last trip when many were finally calling for an investigation Rory was involved too...


or Nerys ( another RFUK person on here) if Rory is not available as I know he has been unwell..

I wil Pm you as I have stopped discussing it publically.. it wasnt just ONE trip there were deaths however.. it was three..



I can forward Pms to u also from the organisers direct to me and some others i was also sent..

also.. was it PROVEN that it was overpacked poly boxes for ALL the deaths.. on each and every trip.. for evey buyer that bought.. three times..

I never did hear how the supposed investigation went that was agreed to???


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

You can also contact the FBH direct as they ran an investigation in the issues surrounding this matter


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Nothing has been proven one way or the other, hence the changes we have made to the march trip.

Just for info, we have heard very little about the 'investigation' but I do quote parts from some emails sent to me.



> I’ve not spoken to Chris for a few days but the last time I spoke with him DEFRA had not contacted him about this matter and as far as I am aware they are not investigating anything at the moment. The reason that the FBH has started asking for information is because of the fuss on the forums (in particular RF UK). From past experience we are well aware of how quickly the forums can turn something minor into something major and for this reason we are trying to gather some facts together to see if there really is a problem.
> Most of the replies I’ve had are nothing more than people who were not there telling me how glad they are that something is being done. In other words they have read the hype and made the usual mountain out of a mole hill. Of the two proper replies I have now received back (not including yours) one lost no animals and is looking forward to next year and the other was aware that some of the people on coach one lost animals but had lost none of his own and again is very happy with his experience, though like yourself he did question the amount of animals being put into individual poly boxes by some people. So not really looking like the great disaster talked about on the forums.





> Hi Tony
> Sorry for the slow reply but I.ve been away for a weeks holiday and only got home late last night.
> Basically, as I suspected, once I asked for real information to back up the claims being made on the forums, very little actully appeared.


I am sure most members read the thread refered to, the one that contained the unproven 'facts' misleading photos and liableous comments and everyone had the same invite to contact Natrix (on this very forum). The two quotes above refer to that invite that was open to everyone.

Infact, that thread is still on the forum I belive. 

There is infact a court case pending, which I am sure one or two posters on this thread know about, which we will update people on when concluded.

Whilst of course the loss of any animal is regrettable, a blame you, blame me culture serves no good to anyone, therefore we have extracted those comments we felt we could work with, and have made changes to ensure the highest chances of survival on future trips, which can be read about on our coach web site.


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## Squirrel (Oct 23, 2007)

Surely everybody should just work together to make sure that every excursion goes well and that we all enjoy ourselves, I genuinely feel for anyone who lost an animal, and for the livestock itself, but if we all try to 'sing from the same book' then we shall all benefit in the long run from every situation.


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

Squirrel said:


> Surely everybody should just work together to make sure that every excursion goes well and that we all enjoy ourselves, I genuinely feel for anyone who lost an animal, and for the livestock itself, but if we all try to 'sing from the same book' then we shall all benefit in the long run from every situation.


Spot On 
:no1:


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## frog boy (Mar 16, 2008)

Travelling with an organised party to one of the European shows is probably a safer way for you to get there and back again (well thats why I did it).
Unfortunately this was not the case for my purchases.

If one persons animals or the whole coach loads die this is a tragedy, and eventually some reptile keepers and non-reptile keepers will turn against the practice of travelling abroad, perhaps even reptile keeping itself will be threatened as all keepers will be seen as un-caring individuals. Can't happen? Look at whats gone on in aviculture in the last few years, in regards the transport of birds.

I have no problem with persons travelling to legally buy reptiles and amphibians, but deaths in transit are not acceptable to me anyway.


PM me if you have lost animals


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

I was contacted and my details forwarded to Chris I believe but I've never heard a word.


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