# Western diamondback thread.



## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Thought I'd have a go at a thread for all things crotalus atrox! :2thumb:

They may be the most common venomous kept in this country, but that doesn't make them any less special.

My female freshly shed.





Keepers - feel free to add photos of yours : victory:


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

Not a great picture, but here is my little albino c. atrox


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Here are a few of mine


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

A couple of little ones






Adult females rattle


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

Very nice guys have to say I love the albinos


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

My atrox was my favourite snake, the stereotypical venomous snake that I always wanted. Was gutted to see her go.


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Razorscale said:


> Not a great picture, but here is my little albino c. atrox
> [URL="http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/Mark129_2010/774514_10151857271674310_210994702_o_zpsd6558ddd.jpg"]image[/URL]


Been rolling in the dirt?! lol


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Eye-eye! Up close and personal with my albino.



And when he was a baby in his favourite hiding spot! 



: victory:


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## badwool (Aug 15, 2012)

You are all very lucky to be able to keep these.

Even looking at pictures sets my heart racing.

Such an amazing feeling.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

andy2086 said:


> Eye-eye! Up close and personal with my albino.
> 
> [URL=http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/andy2086/VICTORIA-PC/Photos/DSCN1660_zps9a83f063.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> ...


The tube shot is epic :no1:


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

andy2086 said:


> Eye-eye! Up close and personal with my albino.
> 
> [URL="http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/andy2086/VICTORIA-PC/Photos/DSCN1660_zps9a83f063.jpg"]image[/URL]
> 
> ...


Great pics.


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

andy2086 said:


> Been rolling in the dirt?! lol


Lol yeah, dirt seems to just stick to her!!


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Hope she doesn't break her tail, it's getting longer! 



Couple of old feeding pics;


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

One of my pairs getting it on.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

A couple from today


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

The 2 most recent skins;



For any interested, the rattles don't shed (obviously), the old skin comes off leaving the new rattle on the base of the tail - leaving a hole in the end of the skin (dark one).

And the albino is definitely a male :2thumb:


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

what is the effect on the snake if the rattle "snaps" (i dont know how to word it "breaks' ?) does it effect them?


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> what is the effect on the snake if the rattle "snaps" (i dont know how to word it "breaks' ?) does it effect them?


No effect. They still rattle their tails, but unless there are a couple of segments, there's no sound.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> No effect. They still rattle their tails, but unless there are a couple of segments, there's no sound.


ahhh ok, do they "break" their rattles often ? i assume there rattles are rather tough ?


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> ahhh ok, do they "break" their rattles often ? i assume there rattles are rather tough ?


They don't break often, but they do break as they get worn and damaged. Here is a pic of my adult males rattle. 



Not sure if you can see it properly in this pic, but this one has a few little cracks. It's been like this for around a year, and still hasn't snapped off. No doubt it will at some point, but since he never rattles, it may last a good bit longer.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> They don't break often, but they do break as they get worn and damaged. Here is a pic of my adult males rattle.
> 
> [URL=http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/Coldedstblood/Snakes/Crotalus%20atrox/P1120404_zps67e1e544.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> Not sure if you can see it properly in this pic, but this one has a few little cracks. It's been like this for around a year, and still hasn't snapped off. No doubt it will at some point, but since he never rattles, it may last a good bit longer.


I can see one about half way up ? If I'm correct.

Cold the damage be caused by every day movement ? Say knocking the wall of the viv or furniture ?


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> I can see one about half way up ? If I'm correct.
> 
> Cold the damage be caused by every day movement ? Say knocking the wall of the viv or furniture ?


Yes to both. Hopefully, when it does break, it will break at the crack.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> Yes to both. Hopefully, when it does break, it will break at the crack.


Ah I see. I thought the rattle would be rather tough. I hope it's a clean break for him


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Bradleybradleyc said:


> Ah I see. I thought the rattle would be rather tough. I hope it's a clean break for him


They are tough. I've got one that broke off from a Mohave, which my son plays with - well, he uses it scare his grandma lol. He's took it in to school to show his friends and teachers, and they all had a go on it.


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> They are tough. I've got one that broke off from a Mohave, which my son plays with - well, he uses it scare his grandma lol. He's took it in to school to show his friends and teachers, and they all had a go on it.


I could just see him chasing her around the house :lol:

I bet his mates and teachers loved seeing it and having a touch it's not something that you get the opportunity to see/handle every day or in a life time for many


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

New pic from tonight.


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

A couple taken today.

My two strike the prey, pull back, then re-align their jaws before eating. I handy timing tip to get a good jaw stretch!



Albino didn't give me a full open mouth this time.


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## Herpalist (Jun 17, 2009)

Here is a large albino I used to keep. 





Here is a smaller neonate I used have also.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

Stunning stunning stunning I have loved these snakes for as long as I can remember . those of you who are lucky enough to keep such amazing reptiles can count yourself's very lucky :notworthy:


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)




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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Razorscale said:


> [URL="http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/Mark129_2010/1480766_10152049860194310_886903306_n1_zps5de67af6.jpg"]image[/URL]
> [URL="http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/Mark129_2010/1457478_10152040229709310_509120785_n1_zps1d5b75b1.jpg"]image[/URL]


Cute little snake. How old is s/he?


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

coldestblood said:


> Cute little snake. How old is s/he?


I'm unsure on exact date's but when I got her she only had a button, so a few month's I'd say.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

RFUK rattler


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## Bradleybradleyc (May 7, 2012)

coldestblood said:


> RFUK rattler
> 
> [URL=http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/Coldedstblood/Snakes/Crotalus%20atrox/P1210649_zpsb33bb0be.jpg]image[/URL]


How do you get on here so often with that little blighter hogging the laptop ?


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## Woodworm (Aug 26, 2012)

Now thats some serious internet security right there.


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

My 2 together while I gave their vivs a good clean out.

.

They're now together in a bigger viv. As they've always been kept separately it'll be interesting to see if their behaviour changes when together.


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## steve williams (Feb 14, 2010)

I kept Western Diamonds, among others, back in the 70's/80's and loved them though my favourite rattler was always the little pygmy.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

wow seeing so many diamondbacks :gasp:.....a couple of questions 1) what's their behavior like? 2)what size viv and can you keep them in rubs (with locks of course) 3) i know that people have asked this a million times before but i know that a diamondbacks don't make good 'starter hots' because of their venom so would a pygmy rattler be a 'good starter' as my goal is to own naja's :mf_dribble: and crotalus :mf_dribble: in the future!!!


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

venpmking said:


> wow seeing so many diamondbacks :gasp:.....a couple of questions 1) what's their behavior like? 2)what size viv and can you keep them in rubs (with locks of course) 3) i know that people have asked this a million times before but i know that a diamondbacks don't make good 'starter hots' because of their venom so would a pygmy rattler be a 'good starter' as my goal is to own naja's :mf_dribble: and crotalus :mf_dribble: in the future!!!


Venom strengths shouldn't influence your decision IMHO.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

ok i was just going on their venom because it can be quite strong i know that adults can control the amount of venom they can inject but for a 'starter hot' a diamond back would be a snake that i would avoid for a 'starter' so jb not going against anything you say or your experience you have but you say that venom strength should not influence a decision so you would say that to somebody who is looking to get something like a inland taipan or black mamba for a first i know that that statement was in you honest opinion but would you tell someone that if they said they wanted a black mamba for a first...i'm not having a go at you i'm just saying is that how you based your decision on keeping hots??


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

venpmking said:


> wow seeing so many diamondbacks :gasp:.....a couple of questions 1) what's their behavior like? 2)what size viv and can you keep them in rubs (with locks of course) 3) i know that people have asked this a million times before but i know that a diamondbacks don't make good 'starter hots' because of their venom so would a pygmy rattler be a 'good starter' as my goal is to own naja's :mf_dribble: and crotalus :mf_dribble: in the future!!!


1. Typical rattler behaviour.
2. One that's big enough for them to move around in, depending on their size. Vivs are better in my opinion.
3. Many first time keepers start with westerns, me included. Just because they're called pygmy doesn't mean to say they're less dangerous. There's no such thing as a "good starter", just depends what you're confident with.


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## Jb1432 (Apr 19, 2008)

venpmking said:


> ok i was just going on their venom because it can be quite strong i know that adults can control the amount of venom they can inject but for a 'starter hot' a diamond back would be a snake that i would avoid for a 'starter' so jb not going against anything you say or your experience you have but you say that venom strength should not influence a decision so you would say that to somebody who is looking to get something like a inland taipan or black mamba for a first i know that that statement was in you honest opinion but would you tell someone that if they said they wanted a black mamba for a first...i'm not having a go at you i'm just saying is that how you based your decision on keeping hots??


I have no experience keeping DWA unless you count mangroves which are longer on the act.

I understand what you're saying in regards to the taipan and black mamba but those are Elapids which I understand to be completely different in terms of husbandry : victory:


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

Jb1432 said:


> I have no experience keeping DWA unless you count mangroves which are longer on the act.
> 
> I understand what you're saying in regards to the taipan and black mamba but those are Elapids which I understand to be completely different in terms of husbandry : victory:



i know that but what i'm saying is would you say that venom strength should not influence your decision if someone done a thread asking if they could keep a black mamba or a taipan as a first starter i know nothing about their care but i do know that i would never recommend a mamba for a first hot because they have strong venom and they are very fast striking and moving snakes.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

andy2086 said:


> 1. Typical rattler behaviour.
> 2. One that's big enough for them to move around in, depending on their size. Vivs are better in my opinion.
> 3. Many first time keepers start with westerns, me included. Just because they're called pygmy doesn't mean to say they're less dangerous. There's no such thing as a "good starter", just depends what you're confident with.


right then i didn't know that you could start with a straight up western for a first and i see where you are coming from regarding of you feel confidant in your self then go for it i did the same with my mangrove i only keep 2 royals and a bci so people said that i was not ready for a mangrove even my local reptile shop was about unsure until i proved to them the amount of research i did into keeping them and the only reason i suggested a pygmy rattler is because the manager at my local reptile shop deals with the shops hots and when i had a talk to him about owning naja's he suggested that i start of with a pygmy rattler witch falls into the two groups of hots i love the most naja's and crotalus


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I had a WDB as my second venomous, from a husbandry point of view they are bombproof. They are certainly not a snake you want to get hit by but then nothing is really.

Day to day maintenance of venomous snakes is not that difficult removing a snake from a viv and cleaning, changing water ect is very straight forward. But there will be a time when you need to get hands on thats where danger lies.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

venpmking said:


> wow seeing so many diamondbacks :gasp:.....a couple of questions 1) what's their behavior like? 2)what size viv and can you keep them in rubs (with locks of course) 3) i know that people have asked this a million times before but i know that a diamondbacks don't make good 'starter hots' because of their venom so would a pygmy rattler be a 'good starter' as my goal is to own naja's :mf_dribble: and crotalus :mf_dribble: in the future!!!





Jb1432 said:


> Venom strengths shouldn't influence your decision IMHO.


 When choosing a first venomous snake, venom toxicity is something to consider, but it’s not as important as temperament. You could go out and buy a pygmy rattler, but if that snake’s more willing to bite, and is a pain in the arse to work with, the chances of being bitten is higher than that of a more toxic, easier to handle snake. Since the idea is not to get bitten in the first place, the smarter decision would be to go with a snake that’s easy to read, and can be handled from a distance. 

That said, I’m one who firmly believes the best starter hot is the one you want to keep, but there are a few exceptions. Mambas and taipans, for example; they require a lot more skill to handle safely, and the only way to get those skills is via experience. Definitely not the sort of snakes someone with little or no experience should keep.

I wouldn't recommend keeping venomous snakes in rubs (excluding young snakes), but that's personal preference. I just don't see the point in modifying a room, paying out money for a license, inspections, and insurance, when the snake isn't going to be in a place where you can observe it. They're not like a corn or royal, where you can get it out and handle it. They're incredibly dangerous snakes, and the only interaction you should have with them is during maintenance. If they're in a box, the way you'll get to see them is to open the box (or get the snake out), and that means having a venomous snake that isn't contained.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

coldestblood said:


> When choosing a first venomous snake, venom toxicity is something to consider, but it’s not as important as temperament. You could go out and buy a pygmy rattler, but if that snake’s more willing to bite, and is a pain in the arse to work with, the chances of being bitten is higher than that of a more toxic, easier to handle snake. Since the idea is not to get bitten in the first place, the smarter decision would be to go with a snake that’s easy to read, and can be handled from a distance.
> 
> That said, I’m one who firmly believes the best starter hot is the one you want to keep, but there are a few exceptions. Mambas and taipans, for example; they require a lot more skill to handle safely, and the only way to get those skills is via experience. Definitely not the sort of snakes someone with little or no experience should keep.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend keeping venomous snakes in rubs (excluding young snakes), but that's personal preference. I just don't see the point in modifying a room, paying out money for a license, inspections, and insurance, when the snake isn't going to be in a place where you can observe it. They're not like a corn or royal, where you can get it out and handle it. They're incredibly dangerous snakes, and the only interaction you should have with them is during maintenance. If they're in a box, the way you'll get to see them is to open the box (or get the snake out), and that means having a venomous snake that isn't contained.



i see where your coming from i know about changing their water etc you should always be able to see where that set snake is and i can see thats where rubs are at a disadvantage compared to vivs considering i'm a newbie into keeping any form of venomous snakes with dusky rattlers whats their temperament like i'm going to be doing research into keeping them i just want to ask everyones advice as reading on the internet can be abit hit and miss but my 2 ultimate venomous snakes to own will be a western diamondback and a cape cobra nothing fancy but their my top choice now the only trouble is trying to find a mentor around my area as my local reptile shop doesn't do mentoring so if you know anybody around my area give me a shout!! and another thing can you have hots in a well covered viv or not because it's where you could not see that set snake?? if i did go down the route of keeping hots a would have a sort of covered viv enough for the snake to hide in but enough to allow me to see the snake


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

venpmking said:


> i see where your coming from i know about changing their water etc you should always be able to see where that set snake is and i can see thats where rubs are at a disadvantage compared to vivs considering i'm a newbie into keeping any form of venomous snakes with dusky rattlers whats their temperament like i'm going to be doing research into keeping them i just want to ask everyones advice as reading on the internet can be abit hit and miss but my 2 ultimate venomous snakes to own will be a western diamondback and a cape cobra nothing fancy but their my top choice now the only trouble is trying to find a mentor around my area as my local reptile shop doesn't do mentoring so if you know anybody around my area give me a shout!! and another thing can you have hots in a well covered viv or not because it's where you could not see that set snake?? if i did go down the route of keeping hots a would have a sort of covered viv enough for the snake to hide in but enough to allow me to see the snake



If WDB's are your main interest, can I ask why you're researching the dusky? I've not kept them myself, so can't really comment on their temperament. 
Their setups are no different to a none venomous snake. You can have newspaper and cereal boxes, or a fully planted display viv. It doesn't really matter, so long as long as you can work around it. 

Keeping them in rubs is fine, it's my opinion that in doing so, you're missing the point of keeping them. In an opaque box, the only things you'll see is feeding mode and defensive mode. The behaviour in between is the good stuff, and you can only observe that if they're in a viv. 

It's not essential for you to see the snake at all times, you just need to know it's in there. Best way to make sure, is to only use well built enclosures. Screw in the vents, close and lock the doors properly, and double check everything. Very simple really, but something that often gets forgotten - going by the amount of, 'help, my snake has escaped' threads.


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## steve williams (Feb 14, 2010)

I found Pygmy's relatively easy to keep compared to some other species though, as already mentioned, their smaller size doesn't make them any less dangerous if they do decide to strike and they should be treated with the same respect, and attention to proper husbandry, as any other venomous snake. I personally took the route of keeping several absolutely mental Texas rat snakes in order to get used to confidently handling aggressive, but harmless, snakes without (eventually) getting bitten before being mentored in keeping the surprisingly (in most cases) much less aggressive venomous species. I started with Copperheads, still one of my favourite snakes, and Cottonmouths before moving on to Rattlers and found them ideal as starter hots though that is purely my own personal experience and others may not agree.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

coldestblood said:


> If WDB's are your main interest, can I ask why you're researching the dusky? I've not kept them myself, so can't really comment on their temperament.
> Their setups are no different to a none venomous snake. You can have newspaper and cereal boxes, or a fully planted display viv. It doesn't really matter, so long as long as you can work around it.
> 
> Keeping them in rubs is fine, it's my opinion that in doing so, you're missing the point of keeping them. In an opaque box, the only things you'll see is feeding mode and defensive mode. The behaviour in between is the good stuff, and you can only observe that if they're in a viv.
> ...



the reason i'm looking into dusky's is because i would like a good collection of rattlers and cobra's i'm not just going to stop at a cape cobra and a western diamondback i would like between 4-5 hots over those two groups of snakes and the only reason i i would like to see where the snake is at all times is so that when i go in and say clean their water etc i would like to know where that set snake is so i don't get a nasty surprise when i TRY and find the snake to take them out for a water change thats why i would always like to know where that snake is at all times....i do it with my little mangrove and her venom i no where near that of any rattler or cobra as far as i know as i have not done a lot of research into cobra and rattler venom over all the species


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

venpmking said:


> the reason i'm looking into dusky's is because i would like a good collection of rattlers and cobra's i'm not just going to stop at a cape cobra and a western diamondback i would like between 4-5 hots over those two groups of snakes and the only reason i i would like to see where the snake is at all times is so that when i go in and say clean their water etc i would like to know where that set snake is so i don't get a nasty surprise when i TRY and find the snake to take them out for a water change thats why i would always like to know where that snake is at all times....i do it with my little mangrove and her venom i no where near that of any rattler or cobra as far as i know as i have not done a lot of research into cobra and rattler venom over all the species


If there are a few snakes that you're interested in, it would be a lot more beneficial if you researched them all, and use that info to decide which snake best suits your knowledge and abilities. You may find other snakes that interest you, and it may give you a better idea of what keeping venomous snakes entails. 

I see your point about the water bowl, but that will be the least of your worries. That can be done in a variety of ways. You can fill it up with a stray gun (making the interaction with the snake unnecessary), pick it up with tongs, use a trap box, cover the hide where the snake is, or you can simply remove the snake from its enclosure. If the enclosure is large enough, you could just pick it up in the same way you would for a none venomous snake.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

coldestblood said:


> If there are a few snakes that you're interested in, it would be a lot more beneficial if you researched them all, and use that info to decide which snake best suits your knowledge and abilities. You may find other snakes that interest you, and it may give you a better idea of what keeping venomous snakes entails.
> 
> I see your point about the water bowl, but that will be the least of your worries. That can be done in a variety of ways. You can fill it up with a stray gun (making the interaction with the snake unnecessary), pick it up with tongs, use a trap box, cover the hide where the snake is, or you can simply remove the snake from its enclosure. If the enclosure is large enough, you could just pick it up in the same way you would for a none venomous snake.


i see your point about what your saying there are other hots i'm interested in but its mostly naja's and crotalus and some bothriechis, trimeresurus :mf_dribble: and thats about it i'm fairly confident about skittish/fast snakes as the case with my mangrove she's quick to strike and there is no rush for me to get involved into keeping hots i'm looking around 10 or so years time so i'm giving my self enough time to gain experience from keepers as well as snakes and there are other snakes i'll be getting in the future for my collection and not just for the experience snakes such as gtp's atb and i've been put onto a website that sells hooks etc it's called midwest reptile if anyone has used them what are they like thanks Midwest Reptile Hooks, Tongs and Other Snake Handling Equipment


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

*He likes his KFC*

Not been a an atrox pic for a while


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

The big girl up front with the shy male keeping watch.


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

Lucky number 8! :2thumb:


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

unusual patten


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## andy2086 (Dec 26, 2008)

GT2540 said:


> unusual patten


That's why I like her! : victory:


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