# community vivariums?



## sanderson (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok, I know where this will end up! so If you have something positive or informative then please leave a comment but if you are just going to cause a argument then please don’t bother. 

I am open to opinions as to why you think its bad but just please don’t enforce your views after some one disagrees with you because everyone thinks something different and *I am just looking for some information!*

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Has anyone kept a community vivarium before? What are the things I need to look in to and what are the problems that could occur, I am looking at keeping both rough/smooth green snakes and a small day gecko.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

hi

community vivarium issues are interesting and can occasionally be done with some species but unfortunately not the ones you have mentioned..
the snake/lizard options are not adivsable irrespective of whether the sanke would eat the lizard in the wil or not.. as the gecko would move the snake MAY still strike and they would also stress one another..

lizards have an inherant fear of snakes for a good reason  and if they saw a snake in the tank they would become stressed potentially then causing issue with non eating..

there are SOME tanks that work for example..

crested geckos with millipedes.. and basilisks with WDS

also cohabiting snakes is something personalyl i dont do .. and would only do if i was wanting to breed..

keeping males together can cause horrid fights.. even death and keeping a female in with amale all the time would potentially be an issue for breeding .. eg over breeding and stress for her choosing laying sites..

However 100% i wouldnt go for the snake/gecko option.. its really risky and stressy for the animals.. which im sure u wouldnt want

I hope i put my opinion across with facts to back it up without being arguementative

best wishes x


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

sanderson said:


> Ok, I know where this will end up! so If you have something positive or informative then please leave a comment but if you are just going to cause a argument then please don’t bother.
> 
> I am open to opinions as to why you think its bad but just please don’t enforce your views after some one disagrees with you because everyone thinks something different and *I am just looking for some information!*
> 
> ...



Ok, well where to start. Its a little redundant to ask for advice that is only positive. It strikes me that advice can go either way. However if you are asking for advice from only those that have done it successfully then I fear that won't get many replies.

Well small day geckos, by this do you mean phelsuma or lygodactylus? The difference being phelsuma will be 98% CB as there has been an export ban for around 7 years, and lygodactylus will be 90% WC. Does this matter? Well yes it will influence how you go about caring for them after initial purchase.
Rough green snakes will also be about 95% WC (and pretty difficult to keep alive).

So when you have your animals you WILL need to quarantine them and possibly treat them for parasites. This WILL need at least 2 enclosures. If you can have these two enclosures which are essential for WC animals then why not keep them separate?

On a more experienced note, small day gecko species are relatively difficult to maintain, and are very suceptible to stress. This is NOT a pairing I would EVER consider.


Andy


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## sanderson (Aug 5, 2008)

Thank you that was helpful!

Obviously I don't want to cause any stress to my animals, I have taken on board all your points. I want to get some more information before making a decision if that’s ok? I have heard of some people keeping lizards and rough greens together? 

Also in my local zoo they keep 2 boas with some anoles and I’m not sure how that one has worked THB. But it sort of proves that it can work. And since rough greens are insectivores it’s a little safer. 

I was also considering some fish in the tank? what would people advise for me to keep with a rough green?



GlasgowGecko said:


> Ok, well where to start. Its a little redundant to ask for advice that is only positive. It strikes me that advice can go either way. However if you are asking for advice from only those that have done it successfully then I fear that won't get many replies.


 orry I’m not asking for only positive responses but I just don’t want people to argue about this because everyone has valid points. I was just asking for something constructive..

Edit: Thinking some fish would be cool, and the snake and the fish should leave each other alone? Unless the fish learn to climb trees! lol.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

I kept ringneck snakes (Diadophis sp) with green anoles, oriental firebelly toads an american tree frogs with no probs. Ringnecks are small and wouldn't bother the other species, nor vice-versa. Unfortunately, they are very hard to get hold of nowadays, as are other small species like DeKays snake. Welsh mountain zoo had retics in with common snapping turtles, which would be a mix I would think of myself, but they didn't have any problems when I was there (the retics bred also).

Overall, I don't think there are many snakes you would mix with other herps - although some snake species will specialise in certain prey item, like egg-eating snakes (eggs), Worm snakes (termite eggs) etc etc, many species are opportunistic and could be tempted by something you keep in with them that they wouldn't perhaps normall eat in the wild.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

sanderson said:


> Edit: Thinking some fish would be cool, and the snake and the fish should leave each other alone? Unless the fish learn to climb trees! lol.


snake poo in fish water... YUK.. cross contamination issues very high there


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

are rough/smooth green snakes pretty hard to keep alive generally, parasites and disease is another big one here from what i hear most (even supposed CB) green snakes are badly imported and tend to carry parasites. also i would stick to one geological range and choose hardier species.

Im quite "pro" mixing i guess, but from what i know speaking to others of a similar view to me is, a good amount of experience with both species is a must, so i careful quaratine, monitoring and a well thought out and prepaired enclosure are all musts, u need to know how each animal reacts to stress, any health risks (which i why i recommend the same geological ranges) and if the animal has any behavior quirks. oh an on hand emergency enclosures set-up and ready for a few months after mixing incase things go bad.


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## gregmonsta (Dec 3, 2007)

I have always kept garters in community vivariums ... in fact I don't actually know anyone that doesn't!!! Unless they only have one. I have seen nothing but positives and as other garter enthusiast will aggree the following can be said -

1) Garters kept in community groups are calmer and instantly more handleable (especially true for juveniles) than garters kept on their own.
2) Garters do indeed recognise their cagemates and will do so after long periods of absense and will interact. (Infact a breeder in America recently re-introduce a female radix's year old offspring to their mother only to end up with all of them meeting and greeting and spending the rest of the night cuddled up together).
3) Never had a problem feeding communally ... if you supply bitesized chunks and pay attention you should never have a problem. I'm always actively involved in the feeding process and they always have enough and haven't even once had a 'food fight'.
4) If you know to use your head you quarantine before introducing new snakes (2month minimum inclusive of fecal analises etc). And repeat for any snakes suspected of illness.

I keep a small variety of garter species and they are kept in one male and one female enclosure and they are put together with the appropriate partners as the time arises. 15 years - no cannibalism, diseases or snake-stress related problems ... just happy, marvellous, disease free snakes!!!!

Garter Snake Forum


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

Matt Harris said:


> I kept ringneck snakes (Diadophis sp) with green anoles, oriental firebelly toads an american tree frogs with no probs. Ringnecks are small and wouldn't bother the other species, nor vice-versa. Unfortunately, they are very hard to get hold of nowadays, as are other small species like DeKays snake. Welsh mountain zoo had retics in with common snapping turtles, which would be a mix I would think of myself, but they didn't have any problems when I was there (the retics bred also).
> 
> Overall, I don't think there are many snakes you would mix with other herps - although some snake species will specialise in certain prey item, like egg-eating snakes (eggs), Worm snakes (termite eggs) etc etc, many species are opportunistic and could be tempted by something you keep in with them that they wouldn't perhaps normall eat in the wild.


firebelly toads is a bad idea as they poison the water, if they are left uncleaned they will even poison themselves (the water uncleaned) and definetly other inhabitants that are drinking the water.


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## moonlight (Jun 30, 2007)

I keep a basilisk and a tokay in the same viv, one is out during the day and one is out during the night both were quarantined before I put them together and they are thriving, the tokay clears up all the crix and roaches that the basilisk doesnt eat.


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

sam1989 said:


> firebelly toads is a bad idea as they poison the water, if they are left uncleaned they will even poison themselves (the water uncleaned) and definetly other inhabitants that are drinking the water.


That wasn't the case in our set up (they all lasted for ages - I remember we had flying geckoes in there as well). Many species like arboreal geckoes and anoles don't drink so much from water standing water - they lap up spray and condensation from the leaves and glass. Presumably the ringnecks did as well, as they didn't die from toad poisoning, and were the first species of reptile that i bred.


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## ukgeckos (Apr 11, 2007)

I am not anti mixing as long as its done correctly.
Space is a big issue when mixing as well as individual needs of all species.

During my younger years I kept the following together;
Giant day geckos with Whites tree frogs

Standings day geckos with black spiny toads and whites

Leopard geckos with chequered swifts (has anyone seen any of these swifts anywhere? Ive had trouble finding any since these which was 10 years ago)

CWD with whites tree frogs and cane toads and large Phelsuma species

Starred agama with CWD's whites tree frogs and mountain dragons

a pair of chuckwallas with a pair of beardies and a pair of uro's all of which produced eggs/babies.

In all of these cases I had very large inclosures up to 10/10foot floor space for the latter.
I had eggs/babies off all lizards except the chequered swift as she was not paired up and all communities were together for at least 10 months each.
I didnt however quarrenteen all animals as I didnt have the knowledge in some cases.

All these caused no problems between animals that I could see but again some of these are very stupid to try


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