# Rhino viper



## choc (Mar 16, 2011)

Wow what beautiful snakes these are.If i proceed with the liscence application ill have to get a pair of these.Anyone know what the goin rate is for a pair of juves?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

choc said:


> Wow what beautiful snakes these are.If i proceed with the liscence application ill have to get a pair of these.Anyone know what the goin rate is for a pair of juves?


They are not a beginner hot, difficult to keep me thinks


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

I think I've seen them for £65?


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## choc (Mar 16, 2011)

*rhino viper*

So cheap,why i wonder they are great looking and ive done some research and apart from RI these snakes are supposed to be fairly easy to keep.


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## choc (Mar 16, 2011)

My other option would be copperheads, loved these from a young age.


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

slippery42 said:


> They are not a beginner hot, difficult to keep me thinks


I agree.


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## Cleopatra the Royal (Nov 29, 2008)

i think that the copperheads would definately be a better first snake. nothings an easy starter, but more so than a rhino. (not that i have any experience, though i doubt anyone will disagree)
Harry


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Why copperheads?


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi, 
If the Rhinos (nasicornis) are £65 then they are WC and will rarely survive for any length of time and, if they do they will be extremely delicate captives. The WC's come in filthy loaded with parasites that can be very difficult to shift and they often have infections that cause regurge or sloppy wet stools . These infections nearly always prove fatal unless treated . Once the WC has been treated it is even more stressed than before from all the handling and will often relapse, or refuse food for a very long period

Genuine CBB nasicornis are very rare , the babies are normaly CB from a gravid WC mother. These can settle and do well if given the privacy and care required.
Remember, nasicornis can appear to be doing well and then roll suddenly for no apparent reason . Many keepers successfully keep them alive for about 6-8 years , but this IMO is not a good long life. I have a male here that is approaching 15 years of age

Cheers,
Al


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Gorgeous snakes!


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Al Hyde said:


> Hi,
> If the Rhinos (nasicornis) are £65 then they are WC and will rarely survive for any length of time and, if they do they will be extremely delicate captives. The WC's come in filthy loaded with parasites that can be very difficult to shift and they often have infections that cause regurge or sloppy wet stools . These infections nearly always prove fatal unless treated . Once the WC has been treated it is even more stressed than before from all the handling and will often relapse, or refuse food for a very long period
> 
> Genuine CBB nasicornis are very rare , the babies are normaly CB from a gravid WC mother. These can settle and do well if given the privacy and care required.
> ...


Out of interest - why does the parasitic load require that you molest the snake to the extent you stress it to death? I'm not criticising - I'm just generally interested. Beyond blood work why must the snake be stressed further? Is this a very specific issue with these that requires antibiotic injections?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Speeple said:


> Out of interest - why does the parasitic load require that you molest the snake to the extent you stress it to death? I'm not criticising - I'm just generally interested. Beyond blood work why must the snake be stressed further? Is this a very specific issue with these that requires antibiotic injections?


A WC Rhino will, if not treated easily wipe out a collection if it isnt purged of parasites. I am sure Al will add more to this. Rhino vipers even CB can be problematic, they will die right out of the blue.
I think Al was basically saying if they are WC dont bother they just aint worth the hastle. I saw some on a list for about 30 quid a piece and although cheap it proberbly just isnt worth it. Unlike a lot of other snakes that come in WC that you can purge parasitic wise with nurture and good husbandry, From what i know it doesnt work with Rhinos.


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Speeple, no worries.

Lee's quite right , I was pointing out that WC nasicornis are rarely worth buying .

The snakes on arrival often , nearly always are dehydrated, caked in mud and stressed to the point that they will not feed. Those that do feed will almost always regurge 3-5 days later causing more stress , further dehydration. The only way to administer both Flagyl and panacur (Often what is needed) is by restraining the snake in handling tubes and syringing the medication down the throat via feeding tube. This causes untold stress to the animal . 
The course is often need for a period of three to four weeks . If the animal feeds during this time 9 times out of 10 it will regurge .. so it has to have the weight/ condition to last this extra month . 
Antibiotics are often need too for infections .

If the snake pulls through it will be a nervous , uptight captive that requires alot of privacy . Any future stress can trigger the parasite numbers to escalate once again.

Nasicornis is a shy, timid , and nervous species even when raised from CB . Many disagree as newborns often feed well and appear to be unaffected by human interaction. However, once the babies reach maturity they become sensitive once again .. stressy and secretive.

All the best,
Al


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## KWIBEZEE (Mar 15, 2010)

Excellent tips and education - thanks Al Hyde and Leecb0. Another point is there is really no need for WC in my opinion - you will only be adding to the crisis that some species face - doesn't matter if they are 'common' or 'rare' etc - its just not good news and for every one individual that 'makes it' to the petshop it is well known countless others perish due to stress etc on their way over :devil: so you will be supporting a cruel industry. A stressed creature will more likely behave erratically - increasing its chances of striking at you - is this really worth it? It takes a good few generations for a species to be introduced into culture ( ie captive bred stock) which on the whole has different requirements than Wild Caught - as the experts have said Wc's are NOT worth the hassle and you should 'shop' more conciously. Good luck in your research.


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

My absolute pleasure Kwibezee... nice to meet you 
Al


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> A WC Rhino will, if not treated easily wipe out a collection if it isnt purged of parasites. I am sure Al will add more to this. Rhino vipers even CB can be problematic, they will die right out of the blue.
> I think Al was basically saying if they are WC dont bother they just aint worth the hastle. I saw some on a list for about 30 quid a piece and although cheap it proberbly just isnt worth it. Unlike a lot of other snakes that come in WC that you can purge parasitic wise with nurture and good husbandry, From what i know it doesnt work with Rhinos.


Sure, but that can be used as a generalisation of the risk with bringing any WC animal into a collection without adequate quarantine? Fair enough if their behaviour in captivity simply does fair well with treatment.



Al Hyde said:


> Hi Speeple, no worries.
> 
> Lee's quite right , I was pointing out that WC nasicornis are rarely worth buying .
> 
> ...


That answers the question then, if they're such problematic feeders and prone to stress.

What do you mean in regards to flagyl and panacur? Are you saying they require more than a initial treatment then a follow-up 2 weeks later?


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, they often relapse ... For some rreason or other the standard two doses does not work long term for large bitis. They'll pick up, then quite often fall ill again . 
The first course may even need to be repeated some three months later.


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

Al Hyde said:


> Hi Speeple, no worries.
> 
> Lee's quite right , I was pointing out that WC nasicornis are rarely worth buying .
> 
> The snakes on arrival often , nearly always are dehydrated, caked in mud and stressed to the point that they will not feed.l


I disagree with some of this... Yes, they will come in dehydrated, caked in mud, and a bit stressed a lot of the time... However once hydrated, and settled, it is usually not a problem to get them feeding...



Al Hyde said:


> Those that do feed will almost always regurge 3-5 days later causing more stress , further dehydration.


This I completely disagree with... They dont almost always regurge...



Al Hyde said:


> The only way to administer both Flagyl and panacur (Often what is needed) is by restraining the snake in handling tubes and syringing the medication down the throat via feeding tube. This causes untold stress to the animal .
> The course is often need for a period of three to four weeks . If the animal feeds during this time 9 times out of 10 it will regurge .. so it has to have the weight/ condition to last this extra month .
> Antibiotics are often need too for infections .


I agree that shoving med down their necks will cause lots of stress... I can also tell you from years of experience that untreated snakes do much better in the long run... People are much to quick to administer worming meds and antibiotics... You would be suprized what offering them the proper husbandry will do for a snake and its immune system and its ability to deal with parasites on its own...



Al Hyde said:


> If the snake pulls through it will be a nervous , uptight captive that requires alot of privacy . Any future stress can trigger the parasite numbers to escalate once again.
> 
> Nasicornis is a shy, timid , and nervous species even when raised from CB . Many disagree as newborns often feed well and appear to be unaffected by human interaction. However, once the babies reach maturity they become sensitive once again .. stressy and secretive.
> 
> ...


And this is why people who are getting into this species should make sure they are able to deal with their husbandry requirements... They are not an easy species to look after... I have raised many to adult hood so it is really not impossible... Like with any species, if you keep it wrong it will not thrive...

Rihinos have to have cool temps, high humidity, and a large amount of air circulation... Not an easy balance to maintain... Many people who get them in keep them like they would gaboon vipers... This is often a fatal mistake for the snake...

When a species fails to thrive, it is easy to blame the species... The fact is, it boils down to the keeper...


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

I disagree with some of this... Yes, they will come in dehydrated, caked in mud, and a bit stressed a lot of the time... However once hydrated, and settled, it is usually not a problem to get them feeding...



This I completely disagree with... They dont almost always regurge...

>>>Depends how soon you get them Gregg . They go through many hands , all the best are taken over in Europe before they reach UK .. Different kettle of fish compared to USA



I agree that shoving med down their necks will cause lots of stress... I can also tell you from years of experience that untreated snakes do much better in the long run... People are much to quick to administer worming meds and antibiotics... You would be suprized what offering them the proper husbandry will do for a snake and its immune system and its ability to deal with parasites on its own...

>>> Absolutely ... if they have a good start and as mentioned above , you get the pick of the shipment

And this is why people who are getting into this species should make sure they are able to deal with their husbandry requirements... They are not an easy species to look after... I have raised many to adult hood so it is really not impossible... Like with any species, if you keep it wrong it will not thrive...

Rihinos have to have cool temps, high humidity, and a large amount of air circulation... Not an easy balance to maintain... Many people who get them in keep them like they would gaboon vipers... This is often a fatal mistake for the snake...

>>>Like yourself , i've raised many also . I agree they should not be kept like gaboons ... low temps yes . High humidity we'll disagree on , my studies are showing this isn't needed ... however.. high humidity if kept clean is not detrimental either

When a species fails to thrive, it is easy to blame the species... The fact is, it boils down to the keeper...

>>>I agree to the greater extent , but then that animal should be in a good healthy condition for the keeper to be able to do this . As said above , In UK we tend to get the dregs when it comes to imports from Africa


All the Best,
Al


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Al, what humidities do you keep them at generally, and do you raise them when in slough?


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## Gregg M (Jul 19, 2006)

Al,
Thanks for going into more detail... I actually agree with more of what you said now that you have made it more clear where you were coming from... I appreciate the info...

When I said high humidity I mean higher than what you would keep a gaboon at... I have kept rhinos at around 75% with great results... No RI's... As I am sure you know, the correct balance can be tough to get down... From my personal experience I believe the key to keeping this species alive and thriving in captivity is giving them a lot of air circulation... It has seemed to work well for me in the past...


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

I keep them dry aside from during slough . 
I'm not disagreeing with Gregg at all... Rhinos have been kept alive in many varied conditions . I have been keeping them under those varied conditions to try and work out which husbandry keeps them alive the longest.

So far.. It seems that stress is the biggest killer of this species ... imo


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Gregg  You and I are kindred my friend ... I do agree with most you say too and I know that you have just as much experience with this species as myself . 
All the best mate,
Al


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Oh and Absolutely on air circ' , I have only just cleared up a respiritory Infec' in a male Ugandan that had poor air circ'


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## Speeple (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks for providing some interesting posts guys :2thumb:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Speeple said:


> Thanks for providing some interesting posts guys :2thumb:


 
Agreed, thanks to Al and Gregg on this one. One of the most interesting threads thats been on this forum for quite some time. 

A nice simple change of information, tips, experience and with no bitching, fighting and squabbling. Made for a bloody good read. :no1:


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## jimnlaura (Oct 29, 2009)

*rhino viper*

hi i was reading the post regarding the nasicornis and cant agree more with al hyde if anyone knows its al and he keeps his hots as they should be kept
HI AL SPEAK SOON JIM


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Jim ... thanks mate, most kind of you .  Hope all's good with you and yours


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