# I Feel Sick....



## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I don't think there are any words to really decribe how I feel. I have just gone on Facebook to discover that a friend's dogs have killed her kitten. The litter brother of my kitten, and he was only just four months old. The worst thing about it all is that the dogs killed one of her other cats a few weeks before she got this kitten. 

She is saying she hates the dogs, but I can't help but feel it's not the dog's fault. Poor, poor kitten. I am so cross I just haven't commented, as I have nothing nice to say. 

How can someone let this happen twice?!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

This is one of those threads; you read it, you feel it but there's nothing you can say except I hope they don't get another kitten. So sad.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Evie said:


> This is one of those threads; you read it, you feel it but there's nothing you can say except I hope they don't get another kitten. So sad.


 
I know, there's nothing to say really, but I couldn't comment on there, and I just felt the need to get it out. I too hope she doesn't get another kitten, and that she keeps her existing cat safe. 

What is wrong with people?!


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

midori said:


> I know, there's nothing to say really, but I couldn't comment on there, and I just felt the need to get it out. I too hope she doesn't get another kitten, and that she keeps her existing cat safe.
> 
> What is wrong with people?!


I can understand the need to get it off your chest. You will have to take deep breath and count to ten before speaking to her about it.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

This is so sad. Once is awful but twice is disgraceful. It appears this friend hasnt learnt by her mistakes but then some people never do


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Have to agree! Accidents can happen, but she should have learned from her mistake and never brought another kitten into the household.

Poor bloody kitten is all I can say and she shouldn't be blaming the dogs - it's not their fault. Sadly in this instance it's all hers!


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

Oh no that's awful. :gasp:


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## lynette09 (Aug 20, 2009)

:gasp::gasp::gasp: iv heard this happen quite abit .. its sad , i think that before you get a cat you should make sure you can ensure a safe home , 
dogs are trainable to be cat friendly !!! we 1 cat that comes in our house lol and we have hounds 3 of them , all are 100% apart from the greyhound-but when we are100% with her we hope to get kitties 
the responsiblity of having a pet is to provide a Safe home aswel as loving , its a shame id feel really sick if it happend to me, r.i.p kitty


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## Moglet (Feb 26, 2009)

Someone at work was on about their neighbours throwing bricks at cats cause they didn't like them or something the other day, and she thought it was funny... and then she claimed she loved cats though.
I was so mad I could have broke her legs. 

Ring the RSPCA?

They shouldn't have other animal in the house if they can't train their dog to not KILL things.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> I don't think there are any words to really decribe how I feel. I have just gone on Facebook to discover that a friend's dogs have killed her kitten. The litter brother of my kitten, and he was only just four months old. The worst thing about it all is that the dogs killed one of her other cats a few weeks before she got this kitten.
> 
> She is saying she hates the dogs, but I can't help but feel it's not the dog's fault. Poor, poor kitten. I am so cross I just haven't commented, as I have nothing nice to say.
> 
> How can someone let this happen twice?!


 You are correct. It isn't the dogs fault. When they killed one cat, she had no business getting another cat. I wonder if she told the breeder that they'd killed her cat.

OUt of interest, what breed of dog are they?


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> You are correct. It isn't the dogs fault. When they killed one cat, she had no business getting another cat. I wonder if she told the breeder that they'd killed her cat.


 
From what I can gather, (mutual friend told me this, I haven't spoken to this friend since this) she seemed to think the dogs had killed the first cat by laying/sitting on it. (One is a St. Bernard, so quite clumsy and obviously big) The dogs and cats were allowed free access to each other at night. Apparently she was in the garden with the dogs today and they somehow got into the house and killed the kitten, also by laying on it it seems. 

She is extremely upset, and whilst I do feel sorry for her, I feel more sorry for that poor, tiny little kitten. Once could possibly be attributed to an 'accident' but twice is seriously negligent. I have dogs, they are goo dwith my cats. Woudl I leave them alone, unnatended with my cats?! No, because dogs are dogs and you just never know what might happen. 

The 'breeder' isn't a breeder as such, this was an accidental litter of two and she found her cat was pregnant when she took her to be spayed. I don't think she has told her, but I suspect she has seen it on Facebook. I did try an dring her to tell her before she saw it, but couldn't get hold of her.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> From what I can gather, (mutual friend told me this, I haven't spoken to this friend since this) she seemed to think the dogs had killed the first cat by laying/sitting on it. (One is a St. Bernard, so quite clumsy and obviously big) The dogs and cats were allowed free access to each other at night. Apparently she was in the garden with the dogs today and they somehow got into the house and killed the kitten, also by laying on it it seems.
> 
> She is extremely upset, and whilst I do feel sorry for her, I feel more sorry for that poor, tiny little kitten. Once could possibly be attributed to an 'accident' but twice is seriously negligent. I have dogs, they are goo dwith my cats. Woudl I leave them alone, unnatended with my cats?! No, because dogs are dogs and you just never know what might happen.
> 
> The 'breeder' isn't a breeder as such, this was an accidental litter of two and she found her cat was pregnant when she took her to be spayed. I don't think she has told her, but I suspect she has seen it on Facebook. I did try an dring her to tell her before she saw it, but couldn't get hold of her.


Hmmmm. I have my big Ursa who is pretty clumsy. However, I know that if he lay down and a kitten was there and didn't move, it would scream and scratch and struggle and he's move. Not that this would ever happen here as the dogs and kittens are not alone together ever.
If she was aware that these large dogs are too stupid to move when they feel something struggling under them, she should not have any other animals in the house. Nor small children for that matter either.
Sadly the world seems to have an awful lot of really thick people in it and I'm afraid your friend sounds like she is one of them. Poor bloody kitten.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Totally agree!

Senseless waste of a life!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Hmmmm. I have my big Ursa who is pretty clumsy. However, I know that if he lay down and a kitten was there and didn't move, it would scream and scratch and struggle and he's move. Not that this would ever happen here as the dogs and kittens are not alone together ever.
> If she was aware that these large dogs are too stupid to move when they feel something struggling under them, she should not have any other animals in the house. Nor small children for that matter either.
> *Sadly the world seems to have an awful lot of really thick people in it and I'm afraid your friend sounds like she is one of them. Poor bloody kitten.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry, very much doubt it! As long as they've got food and water the RSPCA don't seem to care about other aspects of their welfare!


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Thanks. I rang the CPL and they said they can't do anything and suggested contacting the RSPCA who would probably write her a letter or something. 

Apparently she is getting a behaviourist out for the dogs, and is only letting them together under supervision until then. It all seems a bit sily to me, why not just ensure they are kept apart?! Heck, I have three children in the house and manage it... 

I'm going to try and speak to her, but if she won't listen, maybe a letter fromt he RSPCA will scare her into acting sensibly, hoepfully it just won't be too late by then! She'll know I rang them, but I really couldn't care less!


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

Thats really sad I just hope she learns her lesson. When I first started to read I thought the dogs had attacked both cats however seems like they havent and it was just accidental on the dogs part although could be totally wrong.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

If she's a 'wife' then Families officer/welfare are the folk to talk to under the circumstances they'd rather deal with it than have an outside Agency come in. 

Actually in my day they've have charged the wife for such behaviour if it had happend a 2nd time not sure they do such things these days. They will be more effective than a charity as they will deal with her and hubby if they think there is a need, which I personally do.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Schip said:


> If she's a 'wife' then Families officer/welfare are the folk to talk to under the circumstances they'd rather deal with it than have an outside Agency come in.
> 
> Actually in my day they've have charged the wife for such behaviour if it had happend a 2nd time not sure they do such things these days. They will be more effective than a charity as they will deal with her and hubby if they think there is a need, which I personally do.


Thanks. Sadly, the welfare office don't really seem to care about this sort of thing, and the CO is unlikely to either. 

Plus, I feel awful 'bothering' them with something like this, as although it is important, I can see why in the scheme of things at the moment (eg. men being killed in Afghan) that they would feel they have more important things to deal with.


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

aww, that's so sad  poor kitten. i know my dogs would chase a cat- there is no wayyyyyy i would get a kitten- it's just not worth it.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

When we had Boogie, he was so gentle with our kitten and would lie around the kitten, squeezing into the smallest gap so as not to squash him. When I read your post it didn't even occur to me that the poor kittens had been squashed. :gasp:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

butterfingersbimbo said:


> When we had Boogie, he was so gentle with our kitten and would lie around the kitten, squeezing into the smallest gap so as not to squash him. When I read your post it didn't even occur to me that the poor kittens had been squashed. :gasp:


To be honest I never thought that either.

When we had our GSD we had litters of kittens running around the living room from the age of 4 weeks and our dog never lay on any of them. They were always jumping on top of him - easy way to get down from the settee, but he was incredibly careful around them.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

feorag said:


> To be honest I never thought that either.
> 
> When we had our GSD we had litters of kittens running around the living room from the age of 4 weeks and our dog never lay on any of them. They were always jumping on top of him - easy way to get down from the settee, but he was incredibly careful around them.


Maybe it's a shepherd trait? Boogie was half shep and half rottie.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I think you're right Emma. He just protected everything that came into our house. Nanny Welsh we used to call him? :lol2:


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## scouse39 (Sep 14, 2009)

*sad*



Moglet said:


> Someone at work was on about their neighbours throwing bricks at cats cause they didn't like them or something the other day, and she thought it was funny... and then she claimed she loved cats though.
> I was so mad I could have broke her legs.
> 
> Ring the RSPCA?
> ...


if pet users love any animals they would treat them as there own but when you hear this sort just shows people cant be trusted 
if you buy a pet you look after it or even if a friend asks do u want a pet 
you say yes or no ..its like having kids you bring them up as your own 
end off !!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

If she didn't witness either cat dying and they weren't "attacked", how does she even know the dogs did it? Has she had post mortems done to prove cause of death? Sounds very fishy to me, especially if there's a cat there that hasn't been "squashed".


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

KathyM said:


> If she didn't witness either cat dying and they weren't "attacked", how does she even know the dogs did it? Has she had post mortems done to prove cause of death? Sounds very fishy to me, especially if there's a cat there that hasn't been "squashed".


 
I don't think there's anything 'fishy' going on. The first cat had a lot of blood on it but no bite marks etc, and they can't get out of the house at night, as she has no cat flap. 

Apparently what happened yesterday was she had been in the garden with the dogs, cat in the house. She'd popped next door to the neighbours, but forgot to lock the back door, which she usually does. The dogs had gotten in the back door, into the house, and then out the front door into the street, which is when she noticed, as she was at the neighbours front door. The cat had been fine when she left, but was dead when she took the dogs back in. Not a visable mark on the cat. 

All horrible and ovbiously preventable. She does blame herself now, which I think is a good thing, and is getting behaviourist in. I have told her it is going to be extremely hard (if not impossible) to train the dogs not to chase the cats if she isn't there, but she says she wants to teach them basic obedience aswell. She has said she will not be getting any more cats, and will be keeping her current cat away from the dogs now. 

I still find the whole thing disgusting and it shouldn't have taken the death of two cats to make her do something. At least it seems sh eis doing the 'right thing' now, albeit too late, and protecting the toher cat. I doutb she'll be leaving doors unlocked again. 

An no, no PM done in either case, I doubt it would have occurred to her, tbh.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> I don't think there's anything 'fishy' going on. The first cat had a lot of blood on it but no bite marks etc, and they can't get out of the house at night, as she has no cat flap.
> 
> Apparently what happened yesterday was she had been in the garden with the dogs, cat in the house. She'd popped next door to the neighbours, but forgot to lock the back door, which she usually does. The dogs had gotten in the back door, into the house, and then out the front door into the street, which is when she noticed, as she was at the neighbours front door. The cat had been fine when she left, but was dead when she took the dogs back in. Not a visable mark on the cat.
> 
> ...


 To my knowledge a simple body crush by overlaying would not cause "a lot of blood". A crush by a large jaw would though even if there were no teethmarks. Besides which straight punctures cannot always be seen as they close up immediately the tooth is withdrawn. I must admit that I shared Kathy's feelings that something doesn't quite ring true about your friend's explanation as to h ow the cats died.Call it gut feeling, 6th sense of whatever you want.
I wonder why she got 2 giant powerful dogs, and only thinks about obedience training them when they are fully grown and have killed 2 animals? Complete sh1tferbrains.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Tend to agree with your deduction there, Pam. I remember years ago I was visiting a friend on a farm and he had a 8 week old Jack Russell Terrier pup, which he'd bred but which hadn't gone to its new owners yet. He brought it into the farm kitchen to show me, and my daughter and I were sitting giving it a cuddle. When the coffee was made he said to go and put him back in the utility room with the other dogs. 

Now in the dog bed with his collie and the mother was a rescue labrador and when I went to put the puppy back in the bed, the lab starting growling at it, so I told my friend I wasn't happy about this dog growling at the pup. By this time the lip was curling and I was getting more worried. My friend said it was OK so then I told him the dog's body language was very threatening towards the pup, not me and I didn't want to put the pup back! He then said that the dog was OK, all the dogs including this one, had all been living together since the litter of pups were born and to just ignore it and put the pup back. Against my better judgment, but relying on his knowledge of his dogs, I put the pup back in the bed and what happened? The labrador snacked at the pup as I walked away. 

Quite simply he must have crushed its skull, because it bled out into the kitchen sink in my friend's hands and there wasn't a mark on its head. I was nearly physically sick into the sink myself. My daughter was totally traumatised by it and it took me weeks to get the sight of that out of my head. I blamed myself, because I felt I should have ignored what he said and insisted that he came and looked at the dog, but I thought he knew his dogs well enough to know that the labrador wouldn't have attacked the puppy - wrong!! :bash:


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## DazedLewis (Aug 21, 2008)

if it was a snake that had killed the two kittens it would be front page news...:whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

feorag said:


> Tend to agree with your deduction there, Pam. I remember years ago I was visiting a friend on a farm and he had a 8 week old Jack Russell Terrier pup, which he'd bred but which hadn't gone to its new owners yet. He brought it into the farm kitchen to show me, and my daughter and I were sitting giving it a cuddle. When the coffee was made he said to go and put him back in the utility room with the other dogs.
> 
> Now in the dog bed with his collie and the mother was a rescue labrador and when I went to put the puppy back in the bed, the lab starting growling at it, so I told my friend I wasn't happy about this dog growling at the pup. By this time the lip was curling and I was getting more worried. My friend said it was OK so then I told him the dog's body language was very threatening towards the pup, not me and I didn't want to put the pup back! He then said that the dog was OK, all the dogs including this one, had all been living together since the litter of pups were born and to just ignore it and put the pup back. Against my better judgment, but relying on his knowledge of his dogs, I put the pup back in the bed and what happened? The labrador snacked at the pup as I walked away.
> 
> Quite simply he must have crushed its skull, because it bled out into the kitchen sink in my friend's hands and there wasn't a mark on its head. I was nearly physically sick into the sink myself. My daughter was totally traumatised by it and it took me weeks to get the sight of that out of my head. I blamed myself, because I felt I should have ignored what he said and insisted that he came and looked at the dog, but I thought he knew his dogs well enough to know that the labrador wouldn't have attacked the puppy - wrong!! :bash:


 OMG that's terrible.
Going by piglets which get crushed by their massive mothers occasionally there is never any blood. They are just dead with not a mark on them.
The fact that the cat in question was covered in blood leads me to think that the dogs actually bit it but the owner doesn't want to admit to it.


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## LincsReps (Jul 2, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> The fact that the cat in question was covered in blood leads me to think that the dogs actually bit it but the owner doesn't want to admit to it.


And that is dective fennannies verdict, which according to a court of law is fact. Well, it is to her :notworthy:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

What an offensive and totally unnecessary post, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LincsReps said:


> And that is dective fennannies verdict, which according to a court of law is fact. Well, it is to her :notworthy:





feorag said:


> What an offensive and totally unnecessary post, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread!


i agree Eileen 

Im sorry but fenwoman isnt the only person who thought there was something fishy 

so why just point out something she has said ?


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

I can see exactly why. She has got plenty of backs up int he last few days. 

I have to say, I notice that although she has a 'holier than thou' attitude on this thread, I see her own dogs have killed her chickens in the past... 

Like I said, I do not know this girl that well. However, it does seem that despite having made terrible mistakes, steps are being taken to prevent anything like this ever happening again. 

Considering her immediate action was to blame the dogs, I doubt she was 'refusing to believe' what had happened. Of course, she could be mistaken about what had happened, but I suppose as her dogs had never made any effort to harm the cats before (and she has owned cats since she got the dogs) and one of the dogs is very big, stupid and clumsy, she assumd it had been accidental on the part of the dogs. Not a particularly unreasonable thing to assume. 

Clearly she has made some mistakes, appallingly at the cost of two cats lives. Luckily, she does now seem to realise this now, an dhas/is taking steps to remedy the whole situation, which, in the absence of being able to turn back the clock, seems the best thing that could happen.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

midori said:


> I can see exactly why. She has got plenty of backs up int he last few days.
> 
> I have to say, I notice that although she has a 'holier than thou' attitude on this thread, I see her own dogs have killed her chickens in the past...
> 
> ...


 
But it dosnt warrent a reply like lincs reps gave wether she annoys or gets peoples backs up or not 

if they are that bothered about her posts then the easiest option is to put her on ignore rather than follow her around and pick at her posts 

rather petty if you ask me


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2009)

If the dogs did bite the cats they'll have the taste for blood now. Wouldn't it be safer to put them down incase they do the same to a child or a person? I know that St Bernards are gentle dogs but so are Labs and look what happened to the puppy.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

scooby.ben said:


> If the dogs did bite the cats they'll have the taste for blood now. Wouldn't it be safer to put them down incase they do the same to a child or a person?


:rotfl::rotfl:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

scooby.ben said:


> If the dogs did bite the cats they'll have the taste for blood now. Wouldn't it be safer to put them down incase they do the same to a child or a person?


I truly hope that was sarcasm...


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> I can see exactly why. She has got plenty of backs up int he last few days.
> 
> I have to say, I notice that although she has a 'holier than thou' attitude on this thread, I see her own dogs have killed her chickens in the past...
> 
> ...


 Just for the record, I have never hidden the fact that in the weeks after Chalky got put out of the car and I took him in, I had problems with him which included killing chickens.
Taking in an adult untrained terrier to prevent him ending up in the pound, which then killed several chickens in the space of an hour, can hardly be attributed to negligence on my part surely?
Unless I had shut him in a kennel and run when he wasn't with me, which would hardly have done much for his abandonment problems arising as a result of being throw out by the only family he had known for several years and losding not only the people he loved, but his name, his very sense of who he was.
Just like the previous poultry killer over a decade ago, he was very clever and for several days, behaved perfectly when I was on the land working. He only showed his hand after I'd been lulled into a sense of false security by his good behaviour and, left out with the rest of the dogs to play while I went in for a cuppa, his true colours came out. Literally, I heard a kerfuffle, went out and there they were, dead. He's flipping fast.
So I cannot see that that incident can have tainted me in any way in regard to my standards of animal care.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> i agree Eileen
> 
> Im sorry but fenwoman isnt the only person who thought there was something fishy
> 
> so why just point out something she has said ?



I have a fan Emma:lol2:
She follows me about on RFUK having a dig, taking a snipe. A nip here, a bite there and hoping that others will back her up or agree with her. It's very flattering. I'm not sure I could be bothered looking to see what someone posted and following them around making silly comments, but still. Each to their own. If it keeps her off the streets :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

scooby.ben said:


> If the dogs did bite the cats they'll have the taste for blood now. Wouldn't it be safer to put them down incase they do the same to a child or a person? I know that St Bernards are gentle dogs but so are Labs and look what happened to the puppy.




Sigh..........................:bash::bash::bash::bash:

Please tell me you don't own a dog.

(Is that allowed? Can one say that someone owns a dog? Or will that be offensive to the PC brigade? Should I have said Is owned by a dog. Or, cohabits with a canine or non human species?)

Forgot to add that when I was 7 and my brother was 4, he got on my bike and started pedalling off. I hung on to the parcel rack to stop him but he carried on pedalling. The only thing I could think of was to bite him which I did, hard, on his bum. (he still remembers it now,47 years later). So does that mean I got the taste of blood and am now a vampire really or that I got the taste of blood so potentially am a mass murderer with a bum biting fetish?
Enquiring minds need to know.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I have a fan Emma:lol2:
> She follows me about on RFUK having a dig, taking a snipe. A nip here, a bite there and hoping that others will back her up or agree with her. It's very flattering. I'm not sure I could be bothered looking to see what someone posted and following them around making silly comments, but still. Each to their own. If it keeps her off the streets :whistling2:


I had noticed pam 

Its a shame people think staright talking is attacking them.......

I have always found the advice you have given out as very helpful 

But i suppose i have an advantage over others im one of the people who has met you in person and understand your way of type on the forum :lol2:


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Just for the record, I have never hidden the fact that in the weeks after Chalky got put out of the car and I took him in, I had problems with him which included killing chickens.
> Taking in an adult untrained terrier to prevent him ending up in the pound, which then killed several chickens in the space of an hour, can hardly be attributed to negligence on my part surely?
> Unless I had shut him in a kennel and run when he wasn't with me, which would hardly have done much for his abandonment problems arising as a result of being throw out by the only family he had known for several years and losding not only the people he loved, but his name, his very sense of who he was.
> Just like the previous poultry killer over a decade ago, he was very clever and for several days, behaved perfectly when I was on the land working. He only showed his hand after I'd been lulled into a sense of false security by his good behaviour and, left out with the rest of the dogs to play while I went in for a cuppa, his true colours came out. Literally, I heard a kerfuffle, went out and there they were, dead. He's flipping fast.
> So I cannot see that that incident can have tainted me in any way in regard to my standards of animal care.


I think its good you are open about what happend. And even better that you gave this dog a home: victory: I dont see how this could make you look bad in how you care for your animals. Infact i have a lot of respect for you and how you care for them:2thumb: I also love reading your post about the antics they get up and love the pics of yor dogs:flrt:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

leggy said:


> I think its good you are open about what happend. And even better that you gave this dog a home: victory: I dont see how this could make you look bad in how you care for your animals. Infact i have a lot of respect for you and how you care for them:2thumb: I also love reading your post about the antics they get up and love the pics of yor dogs:flrt:


I 100% agree with that ali 

pam is the only woman that can make me shoot liquids from my nose and eyes :gasp::blush:

i love reading her stories and always try and remember to swallow my drinks before i read her posts now :blush::lol2:


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> I 100% agree with that ali
> 
> pam is the only woman that can make me shoot liquids from my nose and eyes :gasp::blush:
> 
> i love reading her stories and always try and remember to swallow my drinks before i read her posts now :blush::lol2:


Lmao Emma. I have had to clean my laptop in the past after reading her posts:lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

leggy said:


> Lmao Emma. I have had to clean my laptop in the past after reading her posts:lol2:


yes lol me too hence why i put my cup down and swallow now before opening the thread she has posted on :2thumb::lol2::lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

When I first joined RFUK a few of us oldies on here took offence to Fenwomans ways but we soon got to know that Pam is Pam. She is a wonderful, knowledgable, funny lady who is actually very nice. She posts as she thinks which is very straight talking but she is also very caring and will bend over backwards to help. How anyone could say she is a bad, uncaring bitter person is beyond me. She was there to support me when I suddenly lost my young GSD with words of wisdom and sensitivity
All I can say is longlive Fenny, she rocks:2thumb:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Just for the record, I have never hidden the fact that in the weeks after Chalky got put out of the car and I took him in, I had problems with him which included killing chickens.
> *Taking in an adult untrained terrier to prevent him ending up in the pound, which then killed several chickens in the space of an hour, can hardly be attributed to negligence on my part surely?*
> Unless I had shut him in a kennel and run when he wasn't with me, which would hardly have done much for his abandonment problems arising as a result of being throw out by the only family he had known for several years and losding not only the people he loved, but his name, his very sense of who he was.
> Just like the previous poultry killer over a decade ago, he was very clever and for several days, behaved perfectly when I was on the land working. *He only showed his hand after I'd been lulled into a sense of false security by his good behaviour and, left out with the rest of the dogs to play while I went in for a cuppa, his true colours came out. Literally, I heard a kerfuffle, went out and there they were, dead*. He's flipping fast.
> So I cannot see that that incident can have tainted me in any way in regard to my standards of animal care.


 
Personally, I do think it is negligent to leave an adult terrier, that you do not know the history of, access to both your existing dogs, and chickens, unsupervised. And sadly, as you found out, in his case, it ended badly. 

I have no doubt whatsoever, that had someone else typed the same thing, you would have critiscised them. if someone else wa ssaying they didn't wak their dogs, no doubt you'd critiscise them, and if someone else was saying they hadn't health tested their dogs prior to breeding from them, or had bred from a foster dog, no doubt you would critiscise them too. However, apparently it seems that is one rule for one and another for others and that some people think you can do no wrong. I find it very hard to believe that people cannot see anything wrong in not health testing dogs or breeding from fosters. Maybe my standards are just too high?!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> I had noticed pam
> 
> Its a shame people think staright talking is attacking them.......
> 
> ...


 Didn't we all have fun that night at Nerys's place though:2thumb:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

midori said:


> Personally, I do think it is negligent to leave an adult terrier, that you do not know the history of, access to both your existing dogs, and chickens, unsupervised. And sadly, as you found out, in his case, it ended badly.
> 
> I have no doubt whatsoever, that had someone else typed the same thing, you would have critiscised them. if someone else wa ssaying they didn't wak their dogs, no doubt you'd critiscise them, and if someone else was saying they hadn't health tested their dogs prior to breeding from them, or had bred from a foster dog, no doubt you would critiscise them too. *However, apparently it seems that is one rule for one and another for others and that some people think you can do no wrong. I find it very hard to believe that people cannot see anything wrong in not health testing dogs or breeding from fosters.* Maybe my standards are just too high?!


 
I for one find it very wrong in not health testing breeding animals and would never dream of breeding from a foster, can you enlighten me who said these things are ok please


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Didn't we all have fun that night at Nerys's place though:2thumb:


 
LOL am i allowed to say yes as.............it may spoil peoples take on you being the bitter evil one and realise that you could actually be a nice person :whistling2::lol2:

though saying that if they heard some of the tales you told us about what you have done in the past LOLOLOL then they would have good reason to think that your bitter and twisted :lol2::lol2:

It was a very funny night and would be fantastic to do it again sometime 

hey i learnt my party trick was all your fault woman i tell thee :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> I for one find it very wrong in not health testing breeding animals and would never dream of breeding from a foster, can you enlighten me who said these things are ok please


"Mum is lhasa X tibetan spaniel ( her mum is my Kate ,aka 'granny) and her dad is a little foster lhasa I had here who took advantage of Kate's once yearly season (tibetans only come into season once a year)."

A quote by Fenwoman posted by another member in another thread in OT. 

It transpired a while ago that Fenwoman had bred from her cavs before they were old enough to have been tested for syringomyelia prior to her breeding from them. As I expect you know, it is a very, very serious condition in the breed, and the fact that this couldn't have been tested for does make me wonder what else hasn't been tested. Odd, considering she grills anyone and everyone on the forum about health testing.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> Personally, I do think it is negligent to leave an adult terrier, that you do not know the history of, access to both your existing dogs, and chickens, unsupervised. And sadly, as you found out, in his case, it ended badly.


Luckily, I know dogs and have experience of keeping a pack of them. In several decades of keeping them and having foster dogs, I have never had a dog on dog problem.



> I have no doubt whatsoever, that had someone else typed the same thing, you would have critiscised them.


 I admire your confidence. How can you be 100% convinced you are right in your mind?It must be wonderful to know someone even better than they know themselves.Were you born with the gift or did you train for it?



> if someone else wa ssaying they didn't wak their dogs, no doubt you'd critiscise them,


 Not sure if you mean 'walk' but I'll assume you do.
Yes, I would jump on someone who didn't have access to land who admitted that their dogs got no excersize and weren't walked. Why should I not?



> and if someone else was saying they hadn't health tested their dogs prior to breeding from them, or had bred from a foster dog, no doubt you would critiscise them too.


 Absolutely I would criticise them



> However, apparently it seems that is one rule for one and another for others


How so? My dogs have access to my land 24/7. In addition I have posted on several occasions about taking them down to the 40 foot drain for a gallop across the fields. I guess you missed those posts.

I imagine you also missed the posts on several occasions where I posted that my cavaliers were heart tested and PRA tested and that my lhasas were also PRA tested on a yearly basis. I'm sure I remember a thread last year which you participated in when I said several times just that. Was that another of those threads where people fire questions at me without actually wanting to know the answers, or ignoring the answers because they prefer to villify me.
And who breeds from fosters? Not me. I have never done so and would never do so. Foster dogs don't belong to me, they belong to a rescue centre or an individual such as someone in jail or in hospital for a time. In fact, I would only take a neutered foster as an unneutered one would cause havoc among my own breeding dogs.
No doubt you eyes will pass over what I have just written, without actually seeing any of it, or your brain won't take it in, or you just plain old prefer not to believe it. Either way, I'm not right bothered. I know the truth of it, as does my vet and the people I foster for.



> and that some people think you can do no wrong. I find it very hard to believe that people cannot see anything wrong in not health testing dogs or breeding from fosters. Maybe my standards are just too high?!


 Even the people I get on with , will pull me up if they think I am wrong. I don't expect anyone to agree with me all the time and if someone disagrees with me, that's no problem at all and I'm happy to put my argument across and answer any queries to prove my point, and I would expect them to do the same. Challenge and healthy debate is not about whether you like someone or not.
I am sorry that you think I breed from foster dogs, or dogs belonging to other people and that none of my breeding stock is health tested and that none of my pets dogs is neutered. What an awful irresponsible person you must think I am.
Luckily, I know the facts, as do people who actually know me, plus the people I foster for, and my vets and those surely are the people who's opinion actually counts.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> Luckily, I know dogs and have experience of keeping a pack of them. In several decades of keeping them and having foster dogs, I have never had a dog on dog problem.
> 
> 
> I admire your confidence. How can you be 100% convinced you are right in your mind?It must be wonderful to know someone even better than they know themselves.Were you born with the gift or did you train for it?
> ...


It seems your experience led gave you a false sense of security then, as the dog killed your chickens in this case. 

It has nothing to do with 'getting on with' or 'not liking'. I often find myself agreeing with a lot of what you have to say in fact... 

If I am wrong, then I apologise sincerely, but another member quoted you as having said the following:

"Mum is lhasa X tibetan spaniel ( her mum is my Kate ,aka 'granny) and her dad is a little foster lhasa I had here who took advantage of Kate's once yearly season (tibetans only come into season once a year)."

Surely, with your vast experience (although I find it confusing, since you stated you only take in neutered foster dogs) you wouldn't leave an inseason bitch and an un-neutered foster dog access to each other? Or if 'accidental' access occurred, you'd get the mismate jab? 

And you may or may not have tested for what you say you have but you certainly didn't test for SM, and admitted it at the time, I seem to remember, with some flimsy excuse. 

As for people firing questions and not answering them, you are very good at avoidng the questions you do not have a good answer for. Several people have asked you why you culled white boxers in case they were deaf, but you have declined to answer... I can't think why....


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> "Mum is lhasa X tibetan spaniel ( her mum is my Kate ,aka 'granny) and her dad is a little foster lhasa I had here who took advantage of Kate's once yearly season (tibetans only come into season once a year)."
> 
> A quote by Fenwoman posted by another member in another thread in OT.


you are correct. I did indeed have a foster lhasa here. I should not have taken him in at all really but the owners were being evicted that afternoon and I did so as a favour on a very temporary basis before he went to the rescue kennels on the weekend. Kate had a silent season and he found this out before I did. So yes, technically I bred from a foster dog. Hardly deliberate though. Hardly the actions of a hard nosed puppy farmer jumping for joy at a free stud.BTW, she had 2 lovely pups and I kept them both.But that was some years ago now. Instead of posting this as some kind of fait accompli, why not ask me the circumstances surrounding it to see whether I was mad bad or there was a reason for it happening?
Why not ask me whether there was a reson why Kate had not been spayed? (and still hasn't been spayed)
Perhaps it is easier to jump to conclusions and believe the worst?



> It transpired a while ago that Fenwoman had bred from her cavs before they were old enough to have been tested for syringomyelia prior to her breeding from them. As I expect you know, it is a very, very serious condition in the breed, and the fact that this couldn't have been tested for does make me wonder what else hasn't been tested. Odd, considering she grills anyone and everyone on the forum about health testing.


 you are correct again (we're on a roll eh?). And I took advice from my own vet plus the cavalier king charles spaniel club about this. I was advised that if the breeding bitches came from parents who were free of symptoms, and they were free of symptoms, the chances of them having the problem, were slim. The cavalier health website states that 


> _Due to the unavailibility of MRI machines in many areas and the high costs it is not practical for breeders to have all their breeding stock tested at this time_


 and also


> _Though serious and devastating to the dogs affected and to the owners of affected dogs, the majority of Cavaliers are unlikely to have this condition._


 and also


> _as this condition is still in the early study stages not enough is known about the age of onset to allow us to know at what age or how often this test should be performed._


 In fact the cavalier club has a database of all the cavaliers in the whole world which have been tested and the results published. Only 731 dogs worldwide have been MRI'd for the disease!!


Just exactly what is your problem?


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> you are correct. I did indeed have a foster lhasa here. I should not have taken him in at all really but the owners were being evicted that afternoon and I did so as a favour on a very temporary basis before he went to the rescue kennels on the weekend. Kate had a silent season and he found this out before I did. So yes, technically I bred from a foster dog. Hardly deliberate though. Hardly the actions of a hard nosed puppy farmer jumping for joy at a free stud.BTW, she had 2 lovely pups and I kept them both.But that was some years ago now. Instead of posting this as some kind of fait accompli, why not ask me the circumstances surrounding it to see whether I was mad bad or there was a reason for it happening?
> Why not ask me whether there was a reson why Kate had not been spayed? (and still hasn't been spayed)
> Perhaps it is easier to jump to conclusions and believe the worst?
> 
> ...


 
I do not need to jump to conclusions, the facts are staring me in the face. you allowed an foster dog access to an in season bitch and then allowed her to go on and have the puppies. Maybe an 'accidental' litter, but it certainly isn't your only 'accidental' litter. In fact, the last thread you mention, where the SM was discussed, was in fact about a litter of puppies, bred from a bitch that had had alitter less than year previously, because she was 'accidentally' mated. Surely someone with so much experience would be able to prevent such 'accidental' litters?! 

Odd that you consulted the breed club, and yet the breed club states that: 

*both the sire and the dam of a proposed mating are screened* 

Despite what you say, there is quitea lot of evidence to suggest that SM is widesprea din cavs due to a fairly small gene pool. Some evidence suggests that ALL lines have carriers. 

On top of which, on the last thread you gave different reasons for not testing and did not mention speaking to the vet or the breed club.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> I do not need to jump to conclusions, the facts are staring me in the face. you allowed an foster dog access to an in season bitch and then allowed her to go on and have the puppies. Maybe an 'accidental' litter, but it certainly isn't your only 'accidental' litter. In fact, the last thread you mention, where the SM was discussed, was in fact about a litter of puppies, bred from a bitch that had had alitter less than year previously, because she was 'accidentally' mated. Surely someone with so much experience would be able to prevent such 'accidental' litters?!
> 
> Odd that you consulted the breed club, and yet the breed club states that:
> 
> ...


 So what should I have had done with Kate when I realised she was in pup? (the only litter she ever had)
I look forward to your answer because you don't know her nor any 'problems' she has.


> Despite what you say


 No! Not what I say.
I didn't say it at all. The cavalier king charles spaniel club says it, the MRI results say it and the cavalier health website say it.

If you still want to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "nahhnahhnahh I can't see anything other than what I want to believe" that is entirely up to you. Just don't make out that a statement comes from me, based on my own personal opinion, when in fact it comes from facts provided by relevant health authorities, breed clubs and the like.
As for the


> Some evidence suggests that ALL lines have carriers.


 Please provide evidence for this. What percentage of so called evidence says this? Why only 'some' instead of all?
In fact, with only 731 dogs tested worldwide. On what do 'they' (whoever they are) base their 'evidence'?


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> Its a shame people think staright talking is attacking them.......


The hypocrisy from some members of this site is un-bloody-believable. You cried out against the "straight talking" that outed the neglect of your animals, and you weren't so straight with me when you were asking for my cat! :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

midori said:


> It seems your experience led gave you a false sense of security then, as the dog killed your chickens in this case.
> 
> It has nothing to do with 'getting on with' or 'not liking'. I often find myself agreeing with a lot of what you have to say in fact...
> 
> ...


 I'm getting bored with you going over and over and over the same old things. You believe what you want to believe. Nothing I say will make it otherwise. As for why I don't respond to 'several' (exactly who, several?)people, perhaps it is because they are blocked? I tend to block people I find incredably irritating, and those who snipe for the sake of sniping and who ask me things but don't listen to the replies, or who read the replies, and, even if they come with facts, links to those facts, they still won't believe them. This then tells me that they are a waste of my time and attention so I block them, just like I am now about to block you again. Ask anything you like after this post and the reason I don't give answers is not because I have anything to hide, but because I don't see your posts. From this point in, you are a non-person to me.You simply do not exist for me.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> The hypocrisy from some members of this site is un-bloody-believable. You cried out against the "straight talking" that outed the neglect of your animals, and you weren't so straight with me when you were asking for my cat! :lol2:


Pardon ???

there was no neglect to my animals what so ever and where is your proof on that before you bring me into any of this ??


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

And that's how she deals with problems. Put's people on ignore. Things get a bit too hot for her to handle, questions get asked she doesn't like and the ignore function comes out to play...

Ah well.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My friend used to breed Cavaliers,her last litter was about 6 years ago. SM was kept very quiet then and vets never thought about testing the dogs. I still have 2 of the Cav pups I handreared Claude aged 11 years and Murphy aged 6 years, None of her lines or her breeder friends lines ever showed SM so it cant be that common


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## weeble (Sep 29, 2007)

Ragmoth said:


> And that's how she deals with problems. Put's people on ignore. Things get a bit too hot for her to handle, questions get asked she doesn't like and the ignore function comes out to play...
> 
> Ah well.


And still no answer about the killing of white boxers...


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> Pardon ???
> 
> there was no neglect to my animals what so ever and where is your proof on that before you bring me into any of this ??


4 RSPCA inspections for neglect do not equal a passed homecheck, as the RSPCA can back up. I don't think you're in a position to say people should put up with straight talking when you can't hack it yourself. :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> The hypocrisy from some members of this site is un-bloody-believable. You cried out against the "straight talking" that outed the neglect of your animals, and you weren't so straight with me when you were asking for my cat! :lol2:


 
:lol2: Get your facts right there was NEVER any neglect to Emmas animals. :bash: And before you say I dont know her personally and have never been to her house you are totally wrong.

How can a thread about someones friends dogs killing a kitten go so off track.......................................................................................


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> 4 RSPCA inspections for neglect do not equal a passed homecheck, as the RSPCA can back up. I don't think you're in a position to say people should put up with straight talking when you can't hack it yourself. :lol2:


LOL ok 

just because i had 4 RSPCA inspections dosnt mean i neglected my animals or do............its called mallicious calls from either jealous or bitter people.......

Also if my animals are so poorly done to and i miss treat and neglect them so much...........why do i still have them? why havent i been prosecuted? why havent i been banned from keeping animals ????

See I can straight talk when someone is spouting rubbish about me with no facts to back it up 

Hmmm hang on a sec i have something to say to you 

pot kettle hun 

wasnt you having accusation spread about you not so long ago about having breeding sick rats ???

Well thing is you was so upset about people telling lies 

not nice is it ??? 

So dont do it to other people when you cant hack it yourself either


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> *So what should I have had done with Kate when I realised she was in pup? (the only litter she ever had)*
> *I look forward to your answer because you don't know her nor any 'problems' she has.*
> 
> If her health problems prevented her from having a mismate jab, then maybe you should have been especially careful about allowing her near an un-neutered dog. One accidental pregnancy is possibly an accident, two is careless to say the least.
> ...


 
As for the rest, some info here: 

Syringomyelia (SM) and the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

*"SM is rare in most breeds but has become very widespread in Cavalier King Charles spaniels. Some researchers estimate that as many as 95% of CKCSs have Chiari-like malformation (CM or CLM), the skull bone malformation believed to be a part of the cause of syringomyelia, and that up to 50% of Cavaliers have SM."*

That is up to 50% _have_ SM, more than that will be carriers. 

*"In a study conducted by Dr. Rusbridge and Ms. Knowler, in a sample of seventy "unaffected” Cavaliers from Europe and North America, which were MRI-scanned only for breeding purposes, 70% of them had syringomyelia, 17% were "at risk", meaning were young dogs with Chiari-like malformation but no syringomyelia yet, and only 13% were "clear" of both the malformation and SM.! *

and it seems your excuse is quoted by the 'cavalier health' website as the most often given by breeders: 

Cavalier Breeders' Worst Excuses

"*There is no [insert genetic defect here] in my Cavaliers' bloodlines!* *Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!* *Every* Cavalier bloodline is infected with all of these severe genetic defects. " 

You can put me on ignore, of course, that is what it is there for. It doesn't change the facts though.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> My friend used to breed Cavaliers,her last litter was about 6 years ago. SM was kept very quiet then and vets never thought about testing the dogs. I still have 2 of the Cav pups I handreared Claude aged 11 years and Murphy aged 6 years, None of her lines or her breeder friends lines ever showed SM so it cant be that common


 It isn't, but some people get a bit histrionic about things and like to make a big deal where there isn't one.
She's gone back on ignore. I unignored her a month or two ago when she was having one of her more lucid and rational periods, but I guess the moon is full again so back in the box she goes. Ahhhhh peace.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

weeble said:


> And still no answer about the killing of white boxers...


 Well what was the question? How can I answer if I haven't seen the question? Duh!!

Where is this new thread about white boxers, show me. And BTW I also cull surplus rats, mice and cockerels. So what?


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> My friend used to breed Cavaliers,her last litter was about 6 years ago. SM was kept very quiet then and vets never thought about testing the dogs. I still have 2 of the Cav pups I handreared Claude aged 11 years and Murphy aged 6 years, None of her lines or her breeder friends lines ever showed SM so it cant be that common


 
I have posted some info below, to suggest it is. The Cavalier breed Club recomment testing for this dreadful disease, and in fact, believe in testing for it so strongly, they are subsidising the testing, so they must deem it serious enough. 

Do you also think there's nothing wrong with someone so 'experienced' having more than one accidental litter? Or culling what might be healthy pups?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

KathyM said:


> 4 RSPCA inspections for neglect do not equal a passed homecheck, as the RSPCA can back up. I don't think you're in a position to say people should put up with straight talking when you can't hack it yourself. :lol2:


 I don't think there were 4 inspections for neglect were there? The RSPCA came here too after either someone on RFUK made untrue allegations about my animals or the RSPCA IT section read things and decided to check them out. I'm inclined to believe the former though based on some of the frankly irrational ranting of some folks on here.
You are letting yourself down by muckraking and making false accusations like this you know.At least stick to actual facts and don't be slandering someone publically as you really do lose credibility when you do that.


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## mrsfluff (Jul 15, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> When I first joined RFUK a few of us oldies on here took offence to Fenwomans ways but we soon got to know that Pam is Pam. She is a wonderful, knowledgable, funny lady who is actually very nice. She posts as she thinks which is very straight talking but she is also very caring and will bend over backwards to help. How anyone could say she is a bad, uncaring bitter person is beyond me. She was there to support me when I suddenly lost my young GSD with words of wisdom and sensitivity
> All I can say is longlive Fenny, she rocks:2thumb:


That's great, but a lot of people don't know Pam. Ultimately if all these people are offended by how she posts there may just be a nugget of truth in it? I also get a bit fed up of hearing about 'straight talking', as though that some how means it's ok to border on rude to people and they're wrong for being offended.

I'm certain Pam is very knowledgeable and helpful, I just think that because of how she puts things people will over look her advice. No, I don't think she has to sugar coat everything, I just think there's ways of saying things that don't cause offence.

I don't agree with some of the horrible things people say about Pam, and I don't think her love /care for her animals can be questioned, but I'm not surprised that there has been a backlash.

Jo
(Who didn't really want to get involved but is fed up off all the blo*dy arguing on here!)


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> :lol2: Get your facts right there was NEVER any neglect to Emmas animals. :bash: And before you say I dont know her personally and have never been to her house you are totally wrong.
> 
> How can a thread about someones friends dogs killing a kitten go so off track.......................................................................................


 Because there is a little coven of people who have been made to feel stupid and because they haven't the brains to do anything else, then come and vent their spite, tell lies, make accusations and generally behave like the low intellect , spiteful bitches they are. It's always the same few people, with occasional newbie hangers on who think they are backing strong, sensible members instead of the losers they are in real life. If I sound like I think I'm better than the people I refer to, then you are right. I am better than you. I'm probably more intelligent for a start. I don't make stuff up about someone, then post it publically as though it was fact, nor do I cast aspertions or blacken someones name in order to make myself feel like I have some self worth. I'm not going to name names because I know that you know exactly who I am referring to. Go away and stir your cauldron and mutter your vileness elsewhere, you nasty minded, vindictive witches.:bash:

Now, I'm hacked off and that was me being rude and nasty.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Because there is a little coven of people who have been made to feel stupid and because they haven't the brains to do anything else, then come and vent their spite, tell lies, make accusations and generally behave like the low intellect , spiteful bitches they are. It's always the same few people, with occasional newbie hangers on who think they are backing strong, sensible members instead of the losers they are in real life. If I sound like I think I'm better than the people I refer to, then you are right. I am better than you. I'm probably more intelligent for a start. I don't make stuff up about someone, then post it publically as though it was fact, nor do I cast aspertions or blacken someones name in order to make myself feel like I have some self worth. I'm not going to name names because I know that you know exactly who I am referring to. Go away and stir your cauldron and mutter your vileness elsewhere, you nasty minded, vindictive witches.:bash:
> 
> Now, I'm hacked off and that was me being rude and nasty.


 
:notworthy: Well said


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## Ragmoth (Oct 4, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> Because there is a little coven of people who have been made to feel stupid and because they haven't the brains to do anything else, then come and vent their spite, tell lies, make accusations and generally behave like the low intellect , spiteful bitches they are. It's always the same few people, with occasional newbie hangers on who think they are backing strong, sensible members instead of the losers they are in real life. If I sound like I think I'm better than the people I refer to, then you are right. I am better than you. I'm probably more intelligent for a start. I don't make stuff up about someone, then post it publically as though it was fact, nor do I cast aspertions or blacken someones name in order to make myself feel like I have some self worth. I'm not going to name names because I know that you know exactly who I am referring to. Go away and stir your cauldron and mutter your vileness elsewhere, you nasty minded, vindictive witches.:bash:
> 
> Now, I'm hacked off and that was me being rude and nasty.


But at least those people can sleep easily at night knowing they aren't benefit thiefs. :whistling2:


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## weeble (Sep 29, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Because there is a little coven of people who have been made to feel stupid and because they haven't the brains to do anything else, then come and vent their spite, tell lies, make accusations and generally behave like the low intellect , spiteful bitches they are. It's always the same few people, with occasional newbie hangers on who think they are backing strong, sensible members instead of the losers they are in real life. If I sound like I think I'm better than the people I refer to, then you are right. I am better than you. I'm probably more intelligent for a start. I don't make stuff up about someone, then post it publically as though it was fact, nor do I cast aspertions or blacken someones name in order to make myself feel like I have some self worth. I'm not going to name names because I know that you know exactly who I am referring to. Go away and stir your cauldron and mutter your vileness elsewhere, you nasty minded, vindictive witches.:bash:
> 
> Now, I'm hacked off and that was me being rude and nasty.


Quoted your post and Sig...
The really sad thing about thick people is that they don't realise that they are thick, and if someone makes it clear to them, they respond by swearing and personal insults which is always a dead giveaway . So if someone swears at you or starts calling you names, you know why.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Ragmoth said:


> But at least those people can sleep easily at night knowing they aren't benefit thiefs. :whistling2:


argumentum ad lapidem !


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ragmoth said:


> But at least those people can sleep easily at night knowing they aren't benefit thiefs. :whistling2:


 
Why, whos a benefit thief???


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I don't think there were 4 inspections for neglect were there? The RSPCA came here too after either someone on RFUK made untrue allegations about my animals or the RSPCA IT section read things and decided to check them out. I'm inclined to believe the former though based on some of the frankly irrational ranting of some folks on here.
> You are letting yourself down by muckraking and making false accusations like this you know.At least stick to actual facts and don't be slandering someone publically as you really do lose credibility when you do that.


Excuse me? I'm going on what *Emma and the RSPCA said (at one point it was boasted about in Emma's signature!)*, not what's been said on here. I appreciate there was a large thread on this subject while I was not online but I was not involved in that and I've only gone on the facts chucky egg. No point calling me a lying bitch in subsequent posts when Emma is the one that told me the RSPCA had visited her 4 times at the time of her applying for my cat. Get your facts straight, I know you see an RSPCA inspection as some sort of badge of honour for your spiteful little club of animal neglecters and hoarders, but don't drag me down with you!

ETA: I think it says a lot about the member quoted above that she would defend an animal hoarder who attempted to get a cat under false pretences, which is a fact.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Excuse me? I'm going on what *Emma and the RSPCA said (at one point it was boasted about in Emma's signature!)*, not what's been said on here. I appreciate there was a large thread on this subject while I was not online but I was not involved in that and I've only gone on the facts chucky egg. No point calling me a lying bitch in subsequent posts when Emma is the one that told me the RSPCA had visited her 4 times at the time of her applying for my cat. Get your facts straight, *I know you see an RSPCA inspection as some sort of badge of honour for your spiteful little club of animal neglecters and hoarders, but don't drag me down with you!*
> 
> ETA: I think it says a lot about the member quoted above that she would defend an animal hoarder who attempted to get a cat under false pretences, which is a fact.


 

And what members are in this club then???? I for one would be very interested to know because I dont take slander lying down. What is your description of a hoarder then??? 
I dont believe for a minute that someone was trying to get your cat under false pretences, why would they ?? Unwanted Cats arent exactly hard to come by are they??


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

It's not slander when it's the truth. Emma came to me asking to take on Grace, who I had said would need to go to a homechecked home if she was not going in the immediate area where I could check. She claimed to have had an RSPCA homecheck, but on closer investigation these "homechecks" were actually investigations for neglect of her animals due to neighbour and visitor concerns. Whether or not they were followed up as warranted, Emma lied to me to get a cat - luckily when she said she was going to lock her in a bedroom (another stipulation was no dogs) I already had the alarm bells and checked into things with rescue friends. 

I appreciate you like Emma, but I won't be called a liar when Emma herself would back up everything I've said about what she did and said to me. She said she'd had RSPCA homechecks, she said she intended to keep Grace upstairs in a bedroom for the rest of her life. She didn't get Grace for this, but I think it's fecking cheeky on your part and hers to call that slander when it's the truth, and to whinge about others being afraid of "straight talking". Not so keen on straight talking when it's about one of your own are you? 

Bloody hypocrites.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> I have been inspected 4 x by the RSPCA due to people reporting me


Thanks Fenwoman and Shell - do I hear you eating your words about lies and slander now? Emma herself said it, so thanks!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> It's not slander when it's the truth. Emma came to me asking to take on Grace, who I had said would need to go to a homechecked home if she was not going in the immediate area where I could check. She claimed to have had an RSPCA homecheck, but on closer investigation these "homechecks" were actually investigations for neglect of her animals due to neighbour and visitor concerns. Whether or not they were followed up as warranted, Emma lied to me to get a cat - luckily when she said she was going to lock her in a bedroom (another stipulation was no dogs) I already had the alarm bells and checked into things with rescue friends.
> 
> I appreciate you like Emma, but I won't be called a liar when Emma herself would back up everything I've said about what she did and said to me. She said she'd had RSPCA homechecks, she said she intended to keep Grace upstairs in a bedroom for the rest of her life. She didn't get Grace for this, but I think it's fecking cheeky on your part and hers to call that slander when it's the truth, and to whinge about others being afraid of "straight talking". Not so keen on straight talking when it's about one of your own are you?
> 
> Bloody hypocrites.


Why the hell has this turned into something about me 

you know you really are a twisted person Kathy 

I never told you RSPCA were here investigating neglect at all i told you it was malicious calls..............hence why RSPCA had been.............i never said she would be kept in a bedroom either i said she would eventually have roam of the whole of upstairs when settled in............(forgot to mention some bits didnt you)

I also told you that you were welcome to come and check the place out too.................

you chose not to.............Oh what a shame you would have seen for yourself then how neglected my animals really are!!

Oh and yes it was slander the fact you STATED!! the RSPCA HAD visited me because i NEGLECT my animals 

they were the words you typed


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Thanks Fenwoman and Shell - do I hear you eating your words about lies and slander now? Emma herself said it, so thanks!


Yeah by nasty vendictive people like your putting yourself across as now.............


would you like me to pm you my address Kathy and you can send the RSPCA on over again and make it 5 times hey :whistling2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

At the end of the day Kathy i offered help to home your cat you needed to rehome..............was your choice who to rehome her with..........i repsected that and didnt have a go at you for saying no 


But until you have met me in person, or my animals and seen how they are looked after what gives you the god given right to slate me saying i neglect them when you have no solid facts other than hearsay on what you stated ?


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

What is nasty and vindictive is bitching about people who can't hack "straight talking" or trying to get a cat under false pretences Emma. You might have a fan club on here, but to some people the animal's welfare and honesty when obtaining them is more important. You were happy to offer a substandard home where none of the needs that I insisted on for Grace would've been met - you had dogs, you wanted to restrict her to a bedroom, two things I had said in the post were not what was good for her, and you still asked for her - if I'd not said no, would you have changed any of that? No, you would've kept her neglected, so yes I'm in a position to judge. You don't offer an animal a home that isn't suitable for it, just to get another cat!!!! You claimed to have been "passed" by the RSPCA for adoption. I hardly think you're in a position to judge others for not being able to hack "straight talking" when you're spitting chips about the straight talking when it's about you! :bash:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

It's funny how people are very quick to call the RSPCA useless and in-effective, but suddenly if they have visited someone and passed them as OK, that means they must look after their animals properly. 

The RSPCA are only realyl intereste dif an animal is seriously neglected,, and just because someone passes an inspection, it doesn't mean conditions are ideal, or even good.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> What is nasty and vindictive is bitching about people who can't hack "straight talking" or trying to get a cat under false pretences Emma. You might have a fan club on here, but to some people the animal's welfare and honesty when obtaining them is more important. You were happy to offer a substandard home where none of the needs that I insisted on for Grace would've been met. You did so by claiming to have been "passed" by the RSPCA for adoption. I hardly think you're in a position to judge others for not being able to hack "straight talking" when you're spitting chips about the straight talking when it's about you! :bash:


Pot kettle 

yet again springs to mind 

I never told you i had been home checked for adoption via the RSPCA are you running out of things to throw at me so your now making them up 

Kathy your not giving facts though you told public forum i negelct my animals with no solid proof or facts


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> i never said she would be kept in a bedroom either i said she would eventually have roam of the whole of upstairs when settled in............(forgot to mention some bits didnt you)
> 
> I also told you that you were welcome to come and check the place out too.................


Right, let's get this straight Emma. 

I was homing Grace because she was having to be restricted here.

Grace didn't like dogs at all.

I was homing Grace because my partner is going blind. 

They were the three things I made clear when advertising her for a new home. You contacted me saying you had 7 dogs at the time, 2 or 3 other cats including another foster for a rescue. You did not at any point mention the many other species you owned, including the skunks. You said she would have to be restricted to a bedroom, with the view to letting her have access to the upstairs in time but not the whole house. You initially said you were homechecked, then changed the story to say you had been inspected 4 times by the RSPCA due to neighbours and visitors reporting you for neglect.

You tell me why I didn't homecheck you? Are you seriously criticising me for not offering Grace to you when you lied and were ready to put her in a worse position than she was in here, when the whole POINT of rehoming her was to ensure she got what she needed? 

You seriously are a collector if you think like that.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

midori said:


> It's funny how people are very quick to call the RSPCA useless and in-effective, but suddenly if they have visited someone and passed them as OK, that means they must look after their animals properly.
> 
> The RSPCA are only realyl intereste dif an animal is seriously neglected,, and just because someone passes an inspection, it doesn't mean conditions are ideal, or even good.


The RSPCA have never had any problems with my animals and how they are kept

The RSPCA also have to attened any complaint no matter if its a false allegation or the gospal truth


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> Pot kettle
> 
> yet again springs to mind
> 
> ...


On a thread on here you sad you would pm me as you were homechecked, you then admitted they were inspections. Your signature at the time said you were "passed by the RSPCA". You're obviously used to obtaining animals by deception with the way you are trying to cover things up now. :bash:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Inspected by the RSPCA is not the same as prosecuted by the RSPCA is it?? Emma asked about your UNWANTED cat you said no, thats fine,she was your cat you were allowed to choose her home end of. 
Please dont involve me in your malicious dealings and false claims. Unlike some others I am not a sheep I speak my own mind and have my own thoughts so have no need to jump on a band waggon. I dont like people making false claims about my friends, on here or in real life so yes I will defend them but I also tell them when I think they are in the wrong
You personally are trying to turn this into another Emma thread so I suggest you back off before you say more things you will regret.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

How can anyone regret telling the truth when someone is attacking another for the very thing they can't take themselves? Hypocrisy is rife on this board. As you can see I have made NO false claims, for you to say otherwise is facilitating people who would've happily and openly neglected my cat. My cat was never unwanted, and it shows you for what you are that you say such a terrible thing - perhaps one day you will be cursed by blindness and see how you like having to home your beloved pet because you're worried you will kill her underfoot. I love how you speak out against me for being a "lying bitch" but are quite happy to resort to lower, the attack on the disabled. Nice.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> How can anyone regret telling the truth when someone is attacking another for the very thing they can't take themselves? Hypocrisy is rife on this board. As you can see I have made NO false claims, for you to say otherwise is facilitating people who would've happily and openly neglected my cat. My cat was never unwanted, and it shows you for what you are that you say such a terrible thing - perhaps one day you will be cursed by blindness and see how you like having to home your beloved pet because you're worried you will kill her underfoot. I love how you speak out against me for being a "lying bitch" but are quite happy to resort to lower, the attack on the disabled. Nice.


You purposely started all this Kathy there was no need what so ever for you to drag all of this up 

I never lied to you about anything, I never told you i was adoption home checked 

All i did was offer a home to your unwanted cat...........you chose not to so just leave it ok


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Emmaj said:


> The RSPCA have never had any problems with my animals and how they are kept
> 
> The RSPCA also have to attened any complaint no matter if its a false allegation or the gospal truth


i'm not saying the RSPCA have found a problem, I was also not really referring to you, but making a general observation, that being that just because the RSPCA do nto find fault with something, it doesn't always mean there is not a problem, and it doesn't mean animals are kept in ideal conditions. 

Again, please note, I am not suggesting that this is the case here, just making a general observation. 



Shell195 said:


> Inspected by the RSPCA is not the same as prosecuted by the RSPCA is it?? Emma asked about your UNWANTED cat you said no, thats fine,she was your cat you were allowed to choose her home end of.
> Please dont involve me in your malicious dealings and false claims. *Unlike some others I am not a sheep I speak my own mind and have my own thoughts *so have no need to jump on a band waggon. I dont like people making false claims about my friends, on here or in real life so yes I will defend them but I also tell them when I think they are in the wrong
> You personally are trying to turn this into another Emma thread so I suggest you back off before you say more things you will regret.


Me too, only I noticed you went very quiet when it was pointed out that Fenwoman had bred with a foster dog... albeit 'accidentally'. Like I said, odd for someone so experienced to have more than one 'accidental' litter...


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Oh you want to leave it now? You've only proven that I was right that you can criticise people for not being able to take "straight talking" but call in the cavalry and start with the fibs again when that straight talking is about you. 

I haven't lied once about you Emma, Fenwoman said I was lying about you being inspected 4 times - I even got called a "lying bitch" for it. Shell came on and patted her on the back and has called me a liar for saying it too. I QUOTED you when you told me, and I'm STILL getting called a liar for it. I'm quite happy to leave you all to it if it's more important to you all to save face and keep internet buddies than protect animals. You 3 are obviously wrong in the head. You'll admit to saying it, but I'm a liar when I tell people, pmsl. Cuckoo!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> How can anyone regret telling the truth when someone is attacking another for the very thing they can't take themselves? Hypocrisy is rife on this board. As you can see I have made NO false claims, for you to say otherwise is facilitating people who would've happily and openly neglected my cat. My cat was never unwanted, and it shows you for what you are that you say such a terrible thing - perhaps one day you will be cursed by blindness and see how you like having to home your beloved pet because you're worried you will kill her underfoot. *I love how you speak out against me for being a "lying bitch" but are quite happy to resort to lower, the attack on the disabled.* Nice.


 
Excuse me I have never said the above at all if you care to read back. I find I dont need to lower myself to the level of others to have my say and as for attacks on the disabled where have I ever done that. I am actually trained in the care of disabled children so dont you dare try and put words into my mouth
Did I just not say she was your cat and it was your choice who she went to. At the Sanctuary we are constantly refusing people if they cant give the right home to a cat with specific needs.
What I really dont understand is how a thread about someones friends dogs killing a kitten turns into another first class slanging match about things in no way relevant to the thread


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Excuse me I have never said the above at all if you care to read back.


You came on here after Fen called me a lying bitch and patted her on the back - if you don't like getting roped in with her, stop "hear hear"-ing when you don't know the facts. I proved that I was telling the truth and you still called me a liar. So yes, you are a bloody sheep.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Oh you want to leave it now? You've only proven that I was right that you can criticise people for not being able to take "straight talking" but call in the cavalry and start with the fibs again when that straight talking is about you.
> 
> I haven't lied once about you Emma, Fenwoman said I was lying about you being inspected 4 times - I even got called a "lying bitch" for it. Shell came on and patted her on the back and has called me a liar for saying it too. I QUOTED you when you told me, and I'm STILL getting called a liar for it. I'm quite happy to leave you all to it if it's more important to you all to save face and keep internet buddies than protect animals. You 3 are obviously wrong in the head. You'll admit to saying it, but I'm a liar when I tell people, pmsl. Cuckoo!


Kathy i cant be bothered with going round in circles as i have read many of your threads.........arguing with people and they go round and round in circles 

Fenny wasnt calling you a liar for saying i had been checked 4 x i think that was more to do with the fact that you state I NEGLECT my animals................


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

midori said:


> i'm not saying the RSPCA have found a problem, I was also not really referring to you, but making a general observation, that being that just because the RSPCA do nto find fault with something, it doesn't always mean there is not a problem, and it doesn't mean animals are kept in ideal conditions.
> 
> Again, please note, I am not suggesting that this is the case here, just making a general observation.
> 
> ...


:lol2: I was actually bottle feeding a handrear puppy at the time, I dont have time to constantly watch the boards


Accidents can and do happen but what was Fenny supposed to do kill the puppies? She could have had a mis mate jab but maybe she didnt want to. I will never have this problem as all of my dogs and cats are neutered


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Are you saying you weren't going to keep Grace in a home with 7 dogs, and keep her in a bedroom with 3 other cats like you said you would to me? If so I fully apologise. :bash:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Are you saying you weren't going to keep Grace in a home with 7 dogs, and keep her in a bedroom like you said you would to me? If so I fully apologise. :bash:


 
You knew i had 7 dogs i told you i had, i told you she would have roam of upstairs away from the dogs


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Shell195 said:


> :lol2: I was actually bottle feeding a handrear puppy at the time, I dont have time to constantly watch the boards
> 
> 
> Accidents can and do happen but what was Fenny supposed to do kill the puppies? She could have had a mis mate jab but maybe she didnt want to. I will never have this problem as all of my dogs and cats are neutered


 
Not that I would suggest killing puppies at all, ever, but lets face it, it doesn't seem it would be her first time, as she has repeatedly refused to answer people's questions about the culling of white boxer puppies... 

Maybe she 'didn't want to' have the mismate jab, but it would be the responsible thing to do really, regardless of what a person wanted, especially as it's unlikely a rescue/foster lhasa would be tested for PRA. 

Not the actions of someone experienced to have so many accidental litters, the last one was her bitch which had already had a litter less than a year previously and got mated 'accidentally' on her season after the previous litter. I would say it about anyoen else, if someone is not capable of preventing accidental matings, they should not have entire animals.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> You knew i had 7 dogs i told you i had, i told you she would have roam of upstairs away from the dogs


OK so we have it clear now that you would've taken her from an unsuitable situation and put her in another, worse, situation, and are whinging that I didn't give you a chance by homechecking you. Let's leave it there, it sickens me so much that you think that's perfectly acceptable.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

midori said:


> Not that I would suggest killing puppies at all, ever, but lets face it, it doesn't seem it would be her first time, as she has repeatedly refused to answer people's questions about the culling of white boxer puppies....


I sincerely hope your suspicions are wrong in this instance. :eek4:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> OK so we have it clear now that you would've taken her from an unsuitable situation and put her in another, worse, situation, and are whinging that I didn't give you a chance by homechecking you. Let's leave it there, it sickens me so much that you think that's perfectly acceptable.


No Kathy i offered help to you it was your choice to take it or not and you chose not to ok 

I dont see what i did wrong in offering help 

you didnt think it was suitable then far enough did i kick a stink up about that no i respected your choice on not to accept my help 

so yeah now lets leave it at that


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Because there is a little coven of people who have been made to feel stupid and because they haven't the brains to do anything else, then come and vent their spite, tell lies, make accusations and generally behave like the low intellect , spiteful bitches they are. It's always the same few people, with occasional newbie hangers on who think they are backing strong, sensible members instead of the losers they are in real life. If I sound like I think I'm better than the people I refer to, then you are right. I am better than you. I'm probably more intelligent for a start. I don't make stuff up about someone, then post it publically as though it was fact, nor do I cast aspertions or blacken someones name in order to make myself feel like I have some self worth. I'm not going to name names because I know that you know exactly who I am referring to. Go away and stir your cauldron and mutter your vileness elsewhere, you nasty minded, vindictive witches.:bash:
> 
> Now, I'm hacked off and that was me being rude and nasty.





KathyM said:


> Oh you want to leave it now? You've only proven that I was right that you can criticise people for not being able to take "straight talking" but call in the cavalry and start with the fibs again when that straight talking is about you.
> 
> I haven't lied once about you Emma, Fenwoman said I was lying about you being inspected 4 times - I even got called a "lying bitch" for it. Shell came on and patted her on the back and has called me a liar for saying it too. I QUOTED you when you told me, and I'm STILL getting called a liar for it. I'm quite happy to leave you all to it if it's more important to you all to save face and keep internet buddies than protect animals. You 3 are obviously wrong in the head. You'll admit to saying it, but I'm a liar when I tell people, pmsl. Cuckoo!


 
Kathy it appears you hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe so will listen to nobody but yourself. I find you really tiring tbh
As fennys post was extremely long then how do you know I was agreeing with that part(not that she named anyone). I bowed because she has a great way with words. Only the people who feel guilty would think that the post was abou them. As for protecting animals Ive been doing it for 30 years now and was even a welfare officer for cats protection


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Kathy it appears you hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe so will listen to nobody but yourself. I find you really tiring tbh
> As fennys post was extremely long then how do you know I was agreeing with that part(not that she named anyone). I bowed because she has a great way with words. Only the people who feel guilty would think that the post was abou them. As for protecting animals Ive been doing it for 30 years now and was even a welfare officer for cats protection


Can you explain what I have to feel guilty about for not offering Emma the cat? Have I lied? No. You called me one still. You are such a sheep Shell, you can't even say you were wrong even when the person you were backing up confirmed I was telling the truth. She's said she wants to let it be and so do I, but I think it's a very poor representation of a CPL worker to suggest Emma was in the right offering an unsuitable home to an animal that needed better - is that the way you home your pets? Didn't think so.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

midori said:


> Not that I would suggest killing puppies at all, ever, but lets face it, it doesn't seem it would be her first time, as *she has repeatedly refused to answer people's questions about the culling of white boxer puppies...*
> 
> Maybe she 'didn't want to' have the mismate jab, but it would be the responsible thing to do really, regardless of what a person wanted, especially as it's unlikely a rescue/foster lhasa would be tested for PRA.
> 
> Not the actions of someone experienced to have so many accidental litters, the last one was her bitch which had already had a litter less than a year previously and got mated 'accidentally' on her season after the previous litter. I would say it about anyoen else, if someone is not capable of preventing accidental matings, they should not have entire animals.


As far as I am aware she has never bred a white Boxer. Its easy saying people should cull white puppies but I think it would be a different matter if it ever came down to it. I suppose it is similar to people who cull rat litters I couldnt do that either. Im so glad I dont breed


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> I dont see what i did wrong in offering help
> 
> you didnt think it was suitable then far enough did i kick a stink up about that no i respected your choice on not to accept my help


You did NOT offer help, do not paint yourself out as some animal-loving martyr. You offered to take a cat out of an unsuitable situation and make it worse for her, so YOU could have another cat. I am all for leaving this be but how can I when you suggest that was offering help as if your home is somehow better than the situation she was in here. I find that very insulting and more than a little deluded.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Can you explain what I have to feel guilty about for not offering Emma the cat? Have I lied? No. You called me one still. You are such a sheep Shell, you can't even say you were wrong even when the person you were backing up confirmed I was telling the truth. She's said she wants to let it be and so do I, but I think it's a very poor representation of a CPL worker to suggest Emma was in the right offering an unsuitable home to an animal that needed better - is that the way you home your pets? Didn't think so.


 
where has shell said you should feel guilty for not offering me the cat????

There you go reading things again that havent actually been typed :bash:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

KathyM said:


> Can you explain what I have to feel guilty about for not offering Emma the cat? Have I lied? No. You called me one still. You are such a sheep Shell, you can't even say you were wrong even when the person you were backing up confirmed I was telling the truth. She's said she wants to let it be and so do I, but I think it's a very poor representation of a CPL worker to suggest Emma was in the right offering an unsuitable home to an animal that needed better - is that the way you home your pets? Didn't think so.


 
What the hell are you on about woman. I will say it again. *GRACE WAS* *YOUR CAT AND IT WAS YOUR RIGHT TO HOME HER WHERE YOU WANTED,YOU REFUSED EMMA BECAUSE SHE COULDNT GIVE THE CAT THE THINGS THAT SHE NEEDED. THAT IS FINE THAT IS WHAT OTHERS WOULD OF DONE TO. NOBODY WANTS THERE PET TO GO TO A HOME THAT DOESNT FIT THE CRITERIA ASKED FOR*
*SHE OFFERED A HOME THAT YOU THOUGHT WOULD BE UNSUITABLE THAT IS FINE*

If Im a sheep you must have trouble reading and understanding words. At this rate I will be needing to have a lie down to recover from my frustration:bash:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

KathyM said:


> You did NOT offer help, do not paint yourself out as some animal-loving martyr. You offered to take a cat out of an unsuitable situation and make it worse for her, so YOU could have another cat. I am all for leaving this be but how can I when you suggest that was offering help as if your home is somehow better than the situation she was in here. I find that very insulting and more than a little deluded.


 
What ever Kathy think what you like as i really cant be bothered with this anymore 

you have slandered me saying i neglect my animals and said that my home is unsuitable 

you have never met me or been to my house so until you do save your judgement till then


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Emma, you really don't know the meaning of the word slander. You were an unsuitable home for Grace, and for any other cat in her situation. You yourself told me that so how is that slander? You've obviously used that "This is slander" rubbish a lot on other people but it won't wash with me - noone needed to see your home to know it's entirely unsuitable for more cats or dogs in Grace's situation, everything YOU said about what you could offer already showed it. Why would I waste my time homechecking you?

Shell, I get you now, I'll leave it there. As for frustration, imagine how it feels knowing someone would've neglected your cat just to have another number to the hoard and then is on here slagging off people who can't take straight talking. Imagine being called a liar for something you said that the person backed up themselves. That's frustrating.


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