# is it ok



## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

to keep breeder mice in a large lidded tub, i only want them to breed for my bosc and the babies for my lads salmon bird eater when its bigger, how would i ensure they have enough airflow and how do i make sure a water bottle wouldnt fall out, thanks in advance.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Welcome To - 9L RUB



This can be adapted for larger tubs.


IMO The spider doesn't need and shouldn't really have rodent prey. I know plenty of people do feed rodents to spiders, but for me, it's a bit of a pointless (and messy/stinky) exercise. The mice tend to be fattening for the spider and the mess is perfect for mites and other issues to take hold.

(Of course that's only my opinion, it's your spider at the end of the day! :2thumb


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

bothrops said:


> Welcome To - 9L RUB
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for that, its my lads spider its tiny at the minute, he was told by petshop that its ok to give the occasional fluff to it when its bigger, the main reason for me to breed them i must admit is for my bosc, as its rather costly keep buying them from the rep shop for him. And i could also use them as a snack for the snakes to.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

mitsi said:


> thanks for that, its my lads spider its tiny at the minute, he was told by petshop that its ok to give the occasional fluff to it when its bigger, the main reason for me to breed them i must admit is for my bosc, as its rather costly keep buying them from the rep shop for him. And i could also use them as a snack for the snakes to.


Fair play.

I breed all my own mice and rats for my snakes.

The RUB conversion is a good way to keep them (though I keep all the adults as 'pets' in the house myself, so they get 'proper' cages!)


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## StaneyWid (Jun 2, 2012)

You Sound like good stuff mr Bothrops :notworthy:

Agree with everything you said :notworthy:

Never once fed my Ts rodents,never will

Altho i could never breed rodents in my house,to then kill,and feed to anything no matter what it was,just not got the mentality/whatever it is? 

Even if something was starving,id cut a finger off sooner than id kill something thats existed in my house thanks to me feeding and watering, for another animals benefit,In a non natural sealed enviroment :whistling2:

And b4 im jumped on i know im in the wrong,but thats my feelings and beliefs on that front

Fair play to any1 that does do that tho, i dont hold it against any1 or think any less of them

But let "The Predator" and the "Prey" loose in your enviroment to let nature take its course.....More than likely the "Owner" or "The Predator" will be suffering first :whistling2:


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

StaneyWid said:


> You Sound like good stuff mr Bothrops :notworthy:
> 
> Agree with everything you said :notworthy:
> 
> ...




It's certainly not something I find easy.

However, keeping carnivores means that things have to die for my pets to eat.

If I buy frozen from the pet shop, I have no idea how they were raised or killed (though I imagine that the food will be pelleted and cheap to keep costs down and they will be killed in very large batches, meaning they may not all get a quick death).

By breeding my own, I can give them the best possible care including good quality, varied diet and can make sure that their dispatch is quick, clean and painless.


It does mean that I have to be involved with the 'dirty' bit of meat production, but I think that the welfare of the prey animal is more important than my personal comfort.: victory:


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

bothrops said:


> It's certainly not something I find easy.
> 
> However, keeping carnivores means that things have to die for my pets to eat.
> 
> ...


Your nutritional info rocks! you should do a bothrops special sticky.:no1:
I love the topic of nutrition but find it very difficult to understand in the whole rodent area.


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## alcopops (Nov 1, 2011)

I have a stack of these in clear http://www.tesco.com/direct/crystal-45l-box-with-lid-tint-blue/215-5224.prd?

loads of holes drilled in all sides, water bottles fitted on the outside and a wheel fitted in each one.
I've found them to be better because the babies cant escape like they do with a lot of cages and easier to clean than the bars of a cage.

I did have the 32L ones but they didn't have enough head height to fit in a wheel.
I'll try get pictures up later.


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## Slangenvrouwtje (Jan 8, 2012)

Hey there.

It's great you are interested in the welfare and nutrition of what you are feeding. I breed my own rats for my royal for the same reason.

I also keep a Bosc and I cannot advise you strongly enough to NOT feed them mammals. Bosc monitors are insectivores. Ebenezer (our Bosc) is a rescue case. The guy he came from fed him only on mice, rats and chicken. He was grossly overweight and bad tempered, he also has pretty bad liver damage.

It has taken us a long time to get him slimmer and healthy now. He loves Locust and Morios, crayfish, GALS, etc' sometimes a raw egg. Very VERY occasionally he'll get some sort of meat as a treat.

Sorry to stick my nose in but I really don't want to see another bosc end up like our boy. 

You don't have to take my word for this alone. Feel free to look around and ask others.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Slangenvrouwtje said:


> Hey there.
> 
> It's great you are interested in the welfare and nutrition of what you are feeding. I breed my own rats for my royal for the same reason.
> 
> ...



Though I understand where you are coming from, the general feeling amongst the monitor experts is that rodent only diets are fine as long as your husbandry is correct. The fatty liver and obesity is caused by too low temperatures rather than the rodent diet.

Join the discussion here!

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/882126-bosc-fed-soley-mice.html#post10394282


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

Slangenvrouwtje said:


> Hey there.
> 
> It's great you are interested in the welfare and nutrition of what you are feeding. I breed my own rats for my royal for the same reason.
> 
> ...


 
i was worried about this after a few things i read, but they actually are fine being fed rodents, as long as temps etc are fine they can digest these correctly and obviously given plenty of insects to, to keep up their exercise, there are lots of bosc keepers on here that feed rodents with no ill effects, they would more than likely eat them in the wild to given the chance and they would eat carrion too. I have researched and researched this, i wouldnt do anything to jeopardise the health of my bosc hes my special little man, thats why i make sure temps etc are always spot on. It is poor husbandry that causes the feeding of rodents to boscs to cause health issues, Thanks for your input anyway.


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