# Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny flower mantis) breeding diary



## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

*Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny flower mantis) breeding diary* 

Cosmicbug sent me 5 2nd instar nymphs..so here goes my 2nd attempt..my 1st attempt was a disaster..i mated the female when she had been adult for just over 2 weeks and the male when he was 3 weeks and none of the ooths hatched..im going to leave it longer this time.3-4 weeks.

i took a few nice close ups yesterday..heres one of them eating a fruit fly..its the only time i can get these guys to sit still during a photo shoot.

2nd instar - Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny flower mantis)


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## diamondlil (May 7, 2008)

:flrt: so beautiful! Hope they do well for you, any more of your lovely pics?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

diamondlil said:


> :flrt: so beautiful! Hope they do well for you, any more of your lovely pics?


 yer i got some closer ones of his face..just editing them now.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

frute fly head any one?


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## diamondlil (May 7, 2008)

Fantastic!


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

2nd instar


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## Pono (Jan 21, 2008)

Those are some very nice photos as always! :no1:

Good luck with the breeding this time.

Ed


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## jadeteacup (Jul 18, 2008)

the pic where its holding the fly and eating with the other side, is just so fantastic.. genius work... :2thumb:


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## Tan (May 7, 2008)

Fantastic shots as always macro . Good luck with the second attempt.


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## y2kcurran (Aug 27, 2008)

wow i love that species!!:2thumb:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

they shed now...3rd instar

3rd instar - Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny flower mantis)

ALL CANON GEAR - 400D SLR - MPE-65MM - MT-24EX with 2x Gary fong diffusers


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

4th instar


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

getting their adult looks now! if this breeding is successful could i buy some of the babies, cant seem to find any under £10


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

gizzard said:


> getting their adult looks now! if this breeding is successful could i buy some of the babies, cant seem to find any under £10


 cosmicbug has some nympths for sale..4£ each, under for sale section - UK Mantis Forums


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

4th instar


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

5th instar now


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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

Cool pics as usual, you just keep getting better.

what is the adult size of P. wahlberghii? is it 80mm?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

exopet said:


> Cool pics as usual, you just keep getting better.
> 
> what is the adult size of P. wahlberghii? is it 80mm?


 heres pic..adlt female wahbergii on left and adult female ocertalla on the right side by side.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Very perdy


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

cheers


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

at the mo this is officially my most favorite species. 5th instar


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

exopet said:


> cheers


there so pretty :2thumb:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> there so pretty :2thumb:


what I've always wondered is... how do you get them to stay still? Surely they get freaked as your right up in their face with a fat lens!:lol2:

Oh and hey for a point and shoot camera( fuji finepix S8100fd is what I'm getting). Would i zoom in fully (x18) THEN go into macro or super macro modes or fully zoom out and use macro, not sure which your meant to do.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

joeyboy said:


> what I've always wondered is... how do you get them to stay still? Surely they get freaked as your right up in their face with a fat lens!:lol2:
> 
> Oh and hey for a point and shoot camera( fuji finepix S8100fd is what I'm getting). Would i zoom in fully (x18) THEN go into macro or super macro modes or fully zoom out and use macro, not sure which your meant to do.


 some species are a nightmare.most species when there nymphs wont sit still.only time they sit still is when there feeding..soon as this species gets to 3rd instar they chill right out..its 1 of only a few species that just sits there letting u shoot them.

cant help with the finepix..iv never used one.


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

gawgeous mantid!!! how many have you got? M+F pair? are you breeding them?


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## Cosmicbug (Sep 28, 2008)

Great pics MJ, I think yours are a moult ahead of mine now, but I've still got 30 from the first ooth hatch so I can't devote as much time to them.


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> some species are a nightmare.most species when there nymphs wont sit still.only time they sit still is when there feeding..soon as this species gets to 3rd instar they chill right out..its 1 of only a few species that just sits there letting u shoot them.
> 
> cant help with the finepix..iv never used one.


right ok cool, thought there might be some general point and shoot rule but I'll play around, i heard zoomed in makes you lose picture quality a little so I'll zoom in only when i need to.


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## benjo (Oct 31, 2007)

hey brilliant pictures, what camera do you use? those are prof' qual!! wonder where people got those alien films idea from:whistling2::lol2:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

6th instar


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

gizzard said:


> gawgeous mantid!!! how many have you got? M+F pair? are you breeding them?


i have 5 nympths//not sure whats male and female yet as i havent checked..the breeder i got them from is my friend so if i end up with all females or all males im sure he will do a swap with me 



Cosmicbug said:


> Great pics MJ, I think yours are a moult ahead of mine now, but I've still got 30 from the first ooth hatch so I can't devote as much time to them.


yes..or maqyby i mixed up the instars?im not to sure.they are at 80f and fed daily.



joeyboy said:


> right ok cool, thought there might be some general point and shoot rule but I'll play around, i heard zoomed in makes you lose picture quality a little so I'll zoom in only when i need to.


iv only ever used an slr so im not much help.



benjo said:


> hey brilliant pictures, what camera do you use? those are prof' qual!! wonder where people got those alien films idea from:whistling2::lol2:


canon 400d SLR
canon 60mm macro lens or MPE-65MM depending on what im shooting
canon MT-24EX twin macro flash


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> 2nd instar


:2thumb: dam they look difrent now


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## summershow (Jun 12, 2008)

joeyboy said:


> Oh and hey for a point and shoot camera( fuji finepix S8100fd is what I'm getting). Would i zoom in fully (x18) THEN go into macro or super macro modes or fully zoom out and use macro, not sure which your meant to do.


i use a fujifilm finepix 6500. if you start to zoom, you wont get the focus right. if you want the super macro to work youre gonna have to fully zoom out and stick the lens right up the mantis. with the right lighting you can get some good shots for a point and shoot. nowhere near mj's photos obviously but its like 1/10th the price so its what you would expect. all the pictures in my blog are on a finepix 6500 so it might give you an idea of what to expect:

_http://www.dragonscrest.co.uk/forums/blogs/mrblue/

_


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

i have i think 4 or 5 females out of 6.:mf_dribble:

subadult female


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

summershow said:


> i use a fujifilm finepix 6500. if you start to zoom, you wont get the focus right. if you want the super macro to work youre gonna have to fully zoom out and stick the lens right up the mantis. with the right lighting you can get some good shots for a point and shoot. nowhere near mj's photos obviously but its like 1/10th the price so its what you would expect.


i thought it was taken with a slr they looked that good : victory:


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

summershow said:


> i use a fujifilm finepix 6500. if you start to zoom, you wont get the focus right. if you want the super macro to work youre gonna have to fully zoom out and stick the lens right up the mantis. with the right lighting you can get some good shots for a point and shoot. nowhere near mj's photos obviously but its like 1/10th the price so its what you would expect. all the pictures in my blog are on a finepix 6500 so it might give you an idea of what to expect:_http://www.dragonscrest.co.uk/forums/blogs/mrblue/
> 
> _


Do you have a small tripod for the camera with my S8100 it seems with super macro the picture comes out totally blurry because I'm holding it and i guess the slightest movement messes it up. Though I'm concerned about my normal images being a bit blurry too, i've posted a question about it in my thread on whether my scorp is pregnant or not.


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## summershow (Jun 12, 2008)

@macro junkie
thanks! :2thumb:

@joeyboy
i dont have a tripod. deffinitely get out of "auto" mode if you want the best pictures, and supress the flash (better to use external lighting like sunshine/daylight, or bulbs/lamps). youre probably getting blurry pics because the lighting is too low, so the camera slows the shutter speed to get the picture exposed enough. but the slower the shutter speed, the higher the chance of any minute movement blurring the shot. throw some more lighting in and the shutter speed will increase, making it easier to get sharper shots. i think the main thing is to switch to manual and then play about with it. you can probably find some tips online but i know i just learnt by playing about alot, seeing what works and what doesnt.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

*Cosmicbug sent me 5 2nd instar nymphs on 1st novemeber 2008..its now february 24th 2009..so in 116 days iv raised them from 2nd instar to subadult..feeding them every day on blue bottles and room temps at 75-80f day time.*


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Here we go..the 1st adult female to shed,its took about 4 months to get it from 2nd instar to adult.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

heres a pic from my last mating success


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

1 male just shed to adult..i have 2 adult females and 1 adult male thats just shed..funny..i thought they where all female..lol..shows how much i know...
heres the male :2thumb:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Wow, they're amazing! I want to start getting some of these more unusual mantids cos they're beautiful! How big are they at adult?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

Ozgi said:


> Wow, they're amazing! I want to start getting some of these more unusual mantids cos they're beautiful! How big are they at adult?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

adult female on left and im 85% sure its a adult male on the right


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

they look AMAZING


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

thanks..they are ace mantids

took this pic yesterday..they pose very well.i told him " smile for the forum" :lol2:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## exopet (Apr 20, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> thanks..they are ace mantids
> 
> took this pic yesterday..they pose very well.i told him " smile for the forum" :lol2:


 This one is the male?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

exopet said:


> This one is the male?


thats a female.the top image is a male.my mistake


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Absolutely stunning!


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## cammylover (Aug 31, 2008)

wow they are some great pics, wanna lend me your camera lol


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

cammylover said:


> wow they are some great pics, wanna lend me your camera lol


 nah.it cost to much: victory:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

macro junkie said:


>


how much are these? are the cheap or expensive? i think these are 1 of my fav mantis, your pics always are so amazing lol ==] they dont get very big or is it just the pic?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> how much are these? are the cheap or expensive? i think these are 1 of my fav mantis, your pics always are so amazing lol ==] they dont get very big or is it just the pic?


 there about 4-6£ each 

wahbergii on left


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> there about 4-6£ each
> 
> wahbergii on left



hmmm i like the look of them apart from i cnt have 1, i cant get fruit flyus or what ever teh breed


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

You can buy fruit fly cultures online! I get them for about 1.99 and my last one has kept going for about a month!
These are absolutely stunning and are next on my list after I get an orchid or two!


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

Ozgi said:


> You can buy fruit fly cultures online! I get them for about 1.99 and my last one has kept going for about a month!
> These are absolutely stunning and are next on my list after I get an orchid or two!



yer i dont realy want flys in my house tbh xD how much space would they need?


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

The flies or the mantis?
The flies come in a small square tub, just like crickets. All I do is put a bit of fruit in there for them occasionally and they carry on breeding. I keep mine on top of the cupboard I have my mantids in and don't even notice them.
None have escaped yet as I am very careful when getting them out. Even if they did escape they can't fly so they wouldn't go anywhere!

The mantis just needs to be kept in a tall sweet jar. 

Neither of them take up much space at all!


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

Ozgi said:


> The flies or the mantis?
> The flies come in a small square tub, just like crickets. All I do is put a bit of fruit in there for them occasionally and they carry on breeding. I keep mine on top of the cupboard I have my mantids in and don't even notice them.
> None have escaped yet as I am very careful when getting them out. Even if they did escape they can't fly so they wouldn't go anywhere!
> 
> ...



i know but i woudnt want them to breed, i woundt want a massive collany as i would only have 1 =] do you have the link 2 the sweet jars? and what do you use as a top?


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

They really are quite easy to manage. When I want to get some flies out, I put them in the fridge for a bit to cool them down and this stops them from moving, then just lift the corner of the tub up and scoop some into a small container ready to be tipped in with the mantis!

I got my sweet jars from a local sweet shop, I offered to pay for them but got them for free, you can buy them from some online shops, but they are often poor quality and you can't see through them very well. I'd recommend just going to a sweet shop and asking for empty ones!

You can either put holes in the screw lid that comes with the jar, but I found the humidity was way too high doing that, so now I just have a bit of net curtain over the top secured with an elastic band. The netting was bought from a fabric shop. It was £2 for a huge piece.
All in all my Mantis enclosures cost about....erm.... 20p each. lol.
This includes the vermiculite I use as a substrate, which was £1.99 for a large bag.

:2thumb:


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

With regards to them breeding and turning into a massive colony, I find that mine die and breed at the same rate so it's more of a constant supply, rather than a growing colony!


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

Ozgi said:


> They really are quite easy to manage. When I want to get some flies out, I put them in the fridge for a bit to cool them down and this stops them from moving, then just lift the corner of the tub up and scoop some into a small container ready to be tipped in with the mantis!
> 
> I got my sweet jars from a local sweet shop, I offered to pay for them but got them for free, you can buy them from some online shops, but they are often poor quality and you can't see through them very well. I'd recommend just going to a sweet shop and asking for empty ones!
> 
> ...


ooooo ok lol =] so how big should i get to supply 1 mantis? i forgot about substrate lol, do you need it? would they ever come down to the floor? and i now you need sticks and stuff but do they ever go down to the floor?


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

if your not willing to keep fruit fly cultures then mantids arnt for you.if u get a culture your need to keep it in a room around 70f for it to produce good.


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

Many people don't use substrate but I like to use vermiculite as it holds the humidity well and it looks nice. It's handy in case I forget to spray them aswell. A lot of people just use kitchen towel!

I'd get one fruit fly culture for one mantis, you are going to have waaaaaaay too many flies for it to eat, but it will last some time and they are relatively cheap. When it get's bigger you can get maggots from a fishing shop and hatch them out into green and bluebottles, they are dirt cheap!

You can put sticks in for them, just make sure they have been baked/bleached first to kill any nasties. You don't wanna overcrowd the enclosure though as they may have trouble shedding.

Everything I read about them before I got them said they like to hang from the netting at the top of the jar. The first two I got did exactly this. The next one I got stayed on its stick the whole time. I got 4 nymphs recently, 2 of them sit on their sticks, and 2 of them sit on the substrate at the bottom. lol.


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## XoxOriptideOxoX (Jul 11, 2008)

are adults about? or would i have more luck buying a baby lol? im not lookign to bread them just to have them bec i like how they look lol


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

:no1:


XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> are adults about? or would i have more luck buying a baby lol? im not lookign to bread them just to have them bec i like how they look lol


 well adults only live for a few months so it would be best to raise a baby really.


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## Jamz (Nov 22, 2007)

Perfect


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## Ozgi (Jun 1, 2008)

XoxOriptideOxoX said:


> are adults about? or would i have more luck buying a baby lol? im not lookign to bread them just to have them bec i like how they look lol


Yeh, like MJ said the adults don't last very long. Young ones will be cheaper and last longer, and nothing beats the amazement of going to check on it one day to see it has shed its skin and is now double the size and has wings!!
Have a look at the caresheet that's stickied at the top of the invert page, and do a search on the forum aswell. There's loads of good info about.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)




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## ackie123 (Jan 18, 2009)

wow thats an amazing shot.what camera do u have out of interest?i cant wait for my flower mantis to arrive:mf_dribble:


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

ackie123 said:


> wow thats an amazing shot.what camera do u have out of interest?i cant wait for my flower mantis to arrive:mf_dribble:


 canon 400d slr with a canon 60mm macro lens..flash used was canon 430ex speed light with lumerqest softbox


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## ackie123 (Jan 18, 2009)

cool.


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

i dont mean to be a arse but this thread is full of posts that arnt nothing to do with wahbergii..i dont mind answering questions.i would rather it not be in this thread tho if its not about wahbergii...pm me if you like 

mods..please delete all the posts that have nothing to do with this grow diary


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## macro junkie (Oct 27, 2007)

well..6 months after getting the 1st instar nympths my 1st ooth has just hatched with about 25 nymphs..the 2nd ooth is 2x as big..the female egg layer died a few weeks back..she only laid 2 ooths unfortunately

So,success.i finally bred this species : victory:


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