# de banning dogs



## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

just seen the news and there on about taking pit bulls of the banned list and not banning certain breeds . excellent :mf_dribble:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Why is that excellent, haven't we got enough 'Staffies', 'Rotties' and the like littering our dog rehoming centres as it is, when irrepsopsible chavs seeking a 'status symbol' take these breeds on before realising they can't actually be arsed with the whole faff of ownership, and kick the poor little beggar out.

WHY do we need Pit Bulls back on the streets of this country?

Have you not seen documentaries on the dog fighting trade, and yes it's a trade with big sums of money changing hands over bets.

I would imagine from your approval that if they are 're-allowed' you'll be first in the queue, so you can strut down whatever high street you live near feeling invincible and manly? :cussing:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Breed-specific legislation quite obviously doesn't work - and it means that responsible owners who might well want a well-bred quality American Pit Bull Terrier - which are MEANT to be excellent family dogs that are eager to please their people - couldn't have one.

What it didn't mean is that nobody could get pit bull type dogs... because people who didn't care about breaking the law got them anyway.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Why is that excellent, haven't we got enough 'Staffies', 'Rotties' and the like littering our dog rehoming centres as it is, when irrepsopsible chavs seeking a 'status symbol' take these breeds on before realising they can't actually be arsed with the whole faff of ownership, and kick the poor little beggar out.
> 
> WHY do we need Pit Bulls back on the streets of this country?
> 
> ...


firstly its not the dog thats dangerous its the owner. secondly staffs are not on the dangerous dog list . and thirdly not everyone has these dog to prove there man hood . and lastly pitbulls are amazing dogs very loyal and intelligent animals made nasty by people!! and you absolutly know nothing about me so dont judge !!!!!!!


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

I wholeheartedly agree, and have owned Dobermans in the past, which at the time were deemed 'big scary dogs' to some.

I'm not chastising the responsible lovers of any breed, I'm just pointing out that in this wonderful country we live in today (as demostrated by the recent fun & games in major cities) we have a populous of mainly dim witted, brain dead, nylon-clad zombies who find the idea of 'working' as abhorrent as sticking their heads down the bog, insist on talking like they're actually from Jamaica, and see Vin Diesel as a social hero.

Let's get our house in order before we arm these potential looters, rioters, and drug dealers with dogs so POWERFUL and good at fighting/defending that the police can't execute raids/arrests without expensive specialist units.

Let the debate roar.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> I wholeheartedly agree, and have owned Dobermans in the past, which at the time were deemed 'big scary dogs' to some.
> 
> I'm not chastising the responsible lovers of any breed, I'm just pointing out that in this wonderful country we live in today (as demostrated by the recent fun & games in major cities) we have a populous of mainly dim witted, brain dead, nylon-clad zombies who find the idea of 'working' as abhorrent as sticking their heads down the bog, insist on talking like they're actually from Jamaica, and see Vin Diesel as a social hero.
> 
> ...


well u just chastised me for agreeing with the bann i love all dogs but bull breeds are my love i have 2 british bulldogs does that make me a dim witted, brain dead, nylon- clad zombie does it ???:devil:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

bollocklegs said:


> firstly its not the dog thats dangerous its the owner.


Oh that old chestnut. Yes if you read my other post, having owned Dobermanns I know that. What I was pointing out is that more dick head chavs will buy Pit Bulls than tea-sipping vicars, FACT!




bollocklegs said:


> secondly staffs are not on the dangerous dog list .


I know that, when did I say they were. I was pointing out that re-homing centres are brimming with the poor little critters, because they are 'the next best thing' in the eyes of your average chav!



bollocklegs said:


> and thirdly not everyone has these dog to prove there man hood . and lastly pitbulls are amazing dogs very loyal and intelligent animals made nasty by people!! and you absolutly know nothing about me so dont judge !!!!!!!



Yes I know this, I've watched The Dog Whisperer too, and seen how 'rehabilitated' Pitts like 'Daddy' and 'Junior' to name a few make role model pets. Again, refer to my observation above. It AINT GONNA BE CEASAR MILLAN OWNING THEM HERE - it's going to be hoody wearing scumbags in THE MAJORITY!

Get over yourself, and, and put some bloody clothes on!


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

bollocklegs said:


> well u just chastised me for agreeing with the bann i love all dogs but bull breeds are my love i have 2 british bulldogs does that make me a dim witted, brain dead, nylon- clad zombie does it ???:devil:


No, I'd say your grammar and spelling do a worse job of advertising these traits than any dog by your side could ever do. No offense.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Oh that old chestnut. Yes if you read my other post, having owned Dobermanns I know that. What I was pointing out is that more dick head chavs will buy Pit Bulls than tea-sipping vicars, FACT!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


narrow minded fool :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

bollocklegs said:


> narrow minded fool :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Hmm, I think *'Spot on social observer, under no illusion'* sums me up more accurately in this instance.:Na_Na_Na_Na:

*Ceasar Milan's wife is called 'Illusion'!


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> No, I'd say your grammar and spelling do a worse job of advertising these traits than any dog by your side could ever do. No offense.


lol have you had a clown for brekki ??? cos your ever so funny. :censor:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Let's get our house in order before we arm these potential looters, rioters, and drug dealers with dogs so POWERFUL and good at fighting/defending that the police can't execute raids/arrests without expensive specialist units.


Hate to say it... but they already are.

Someone who doesn't care about breaking the law is hardly going to say "Oh, I can't get myself a pit bull type dog, ownership of those is against the Dangerous Dogs Act." No, they're just going to go to someone else who's been breaking the law by keeping and breeding 'em since prior to the ban, or go get an "Irish Staff"... 

A Staffy is for all intents and purposes a "pit bull type" dog - and, as it's been pointed out, they aren't illegal either. Most of the "staffies" in the hands of people who shouldn't be keeping any type of dog aren't going to be KC registered purebreds either, they'll be DIY pit types that get called staffies.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

..and, and, and, and anyway, you just wait.. some of the intelligent people on RFUK will be awake soon! Then you're for it Mr!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

Always wanted a blue pitbull, husky eyes on a bull breed, muscular frame and loyal to the end. My EBT was the soppyest dog i have ever met, I would rust either breed over a collie or westie and the likes.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> ..and, and, and, and anyway, you just wait.. some of the intelligent people on RFUK will be awake soon! Then you're for it Mr!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


cant wait . mrs:censor:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

I think the breeders/goverment should monitor who owns these breeds and try to keep them out of fighting rings and such. Most decent breeders vet the new owners before they allow any dog to leave there care anyway. Maybe a license to be required to breed/sell these dogs over and dope with a male and female leaving them to it in the garden to make money.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

chewy86 said:


> Always wanted a blue pitbull, husky eyes on a bull breed, muscular frame and loyal to the end. My EBT was the soppyest dog i have ever met, I would rust either breed over a collie or westie and the likes.


yes but if u have one your a scum bag really . or so salty turtle head says


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> Hate to say it... but they already are.
> 
> Someone who doesn't care about breaking the law is hardly going to say "Oh, I can't get myself a pit bull type dog, ownership of those is against the Dangerous Dogs Act." No, they're just going to go to someone else who's been breaking the law by keeping and breeding 'em since prior to the ban, or go get an "Irish Staff"...
> 
> A Staffy is for all intents and purposes a "pit bull type" dog - and, as it's been pointed out, they aren't illegal either. Most of the "staffies" in the hands of people who shouldn't be keeping any type of dog aren't going to be KC registered purebreds either, they'll be DIY pit types that get called staffies.



Good point, well made. However that's like saying we should legalise all sorts of criminal activity, since they go on anyway. It's then open season, if you can walk around kicking old ladies heads in whilst snorting coke and burning down churches. (My average Sunday, lol)

If you legitimise it, it becomes easier. Underground = harder , Legit = Easy Peasey!

Simples!:2thumb:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Going off topic, anyone here like flip flops?


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> It's SALTY as in sea salt, Not Sally as in Don't look back in Anger.


??????????? go back to sleep


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

I quite like the look of pits. I prefer the slimmer more athletic build of them over the build of staffies, but if they do get unbanned then I can see problems. At the moment the only pits left are ones that have been kept illegally, many for the wrong reasons and possibly bred for aggression. If they become legal then many of the pits coming back to family homes are going to be from lines bred for aggression and fighting aren't they?


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

trw said:


> I quite like the look of pits. I prefer the slimmer more athletic build of them over the build of staffies, but if they do get unbanned then I can see problems. At the moment the only pits left are ones that have been kept illegally, many for the wrong reasons and possibly bred for aggression. If they become legal then many of the pits coming back to family homes are going to be from lines bred for aggression and fighting aren't they?



See, I told you the clever people would be awake soon.:welcome:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

Its hard to say really, if the two most aggresive people, dogs, snakes, cats or what ever had offspring would they automatically inherit that trait? I would of thought its their upbringing thats the key to that. ie ruffing them up from young, encouraging fighting, mistreating. Surely if at 6-8wks old a caring loving family takes them in and teaches them right from wrong this shouldnt be the case? even wc snakes can produce soppy tame offspring its and individuals life experiances/personality imo.


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> See, I told you the clever people would be awake soon.:welcome:


Im not trying to slate them as a breed, or anyone who would like one if they become legal again, I'm just pointing out that I don't think it will be a simple matter of "BSL isn't working, make them legal and the responsible owners can have them problem free".


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

chewy86 said:


> Its hard to say really, if the two most aggresive people, dogs, snakes, cats or what ever had offspring would they automatically inherit that trait? I would of thought its their upbringing thats the key to that. ie ruffing them up from young, encouraging fighting, mistreating. Surely if at 6-8wks old a caring loving family takes them in and teaches them right from wrong this shouldnt be the case? even wc snakes can produce soppy tame offspring its and individuals life experiances/personality imo.


Its down to nature and nurture otherwise fighting breeds and terriers wouldn't exist. They were bred to be aggressive so that they would fight well or kill rats.


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

My ebt wasnt interested in cats, birds, rats or dogs in anyway shape or form and thats what they were developed for decades ago. All im saying is dont over estimate instincts over under estimate education and guidance.


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

Who could say no to me????


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> See, I told you the clever people would be awake soon.:welcome:


lmao :no1:


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

chewy86 said:


> My ebt wasnt interested in cats, birds, rats or dogs in anyway shape or form and thats what they were developed for decades ago. All im saying is dont over estimate instincts over under estimate education and guidance.


Decades ago, pretty much all bull breeds would have been used for and bred for fighting, but today most are bred for pets and so selected for the best temperaments, unlike the pits left in Britain today which will have been re-bred for aggression. Yes, these dogs could still produce nice offspring, but they have a greater chance of producing young with a similar temperament, and in the right hands these could still turn out lovely, but in the hands of many dog owners used to raising nice dogs without so much natural aggression they could prove problematic.


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

trw said:


> Decades ago, pretty much all bull breeds would have been used for and bred for fighting, but today most are bred for pets and so selected for the best temperaments, unlike the pits left in Britain today which will have been re-bred for aggression. Yes, these dogs could still produce nice offspring, but they have a greater chance of producing young with a similar temperament, and in the right hands these could still turn out lovely, but in the hands of many dog owners used to raising nice dogs without so much natural aggression they could prove problematic.


 
I do agree with you 100% trw but remember even a pencil is dangerous in the wrong hands.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes, and the *PENIS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!*


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Yes, and the *PENIS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!*


Sorry, I missed out a space, should have read:

*THE* *PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!*

:censor:


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Yes, and the *PENIS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!*


really ??? dunno what willys you bin lookin at ??


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

bollocklegs said:


> really ??? dunno what willys you bin lookin at ??



Your mums :2thumb::lol2:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Sorry, I missed out a space, should have read:
> 
> *THE* *PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!*
> 
> :censor:


 
That is comedy gold, I was thinking whats she on about? she cant of meant to say that surely lol


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

chewy86 said:


> I do agree with you 100% trw but remember even a pencil is dangerous in the wrong hands.


I think we have the same ideas then. I'm not saying pits are the only dangerous breed. I think Labradors cause more hospitalizations or something than any other type of dogs in the UK each year. And I have first hand experience with a jack russell who was biting people and drawing blood from 10 weeks old. She took the skin off my dads whole finger down to the bone, and not a week went by that someone in my family wasn't made to bleed. She was very unpredictable when she would bite too, which made her worse. We tried with her for a year, and were taking her to dog training classes and had a behavioral specialist come in to try to help the dog, but she was sadly un-helpable at least as far as we could do it as novice dog owners. I was only 13 at the time and my little brother was only 11. If she was a bigger breed, then nobody can say otherwise that she would be incredibly dangerous. at the time and my little brother. This was due to bad breeding, but she couldn't kill you. A badly bred pit from new fighting lines could easily kill a person or dogs. In the past month 2 dogs have been killed by whats been described to me as a "pit type" dog on my local park. 
P.s. I'm not slating pits, I just think it will not be simple making them legal again considering many on the pits which will be coming into family environments will likely be from bad lines, and even with the best intentions could still be very dangerous.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

trw said:


> I think Labradors cause more hospitalizations or something than any other type of dogs in the UK each year.


Agreed, I have a large scar on the palm of my hand where a soppy old Lab turned on me for no apparent reason.





trw said:


> And I have first hand experience with a jack russell who was biting people and drawing blood from 10 weeks old.


Ah, you just need to kick it harder :lol2:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

..and before all the do-gooders jump on me, Yes, I've got a Jack Russell, and No, I don't kick her. :2thumb:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> ..and before all the do-gooders jump on me, Yes, I've got a Jack Russell, and No, I don't kick her. :2thumb:


Why not thats how ceaser rolls :devil:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

chewy86 said:


> Its hard to say really, if the two most aggresive people, dogs, snakes, cats or what ever had offspring would they automatically inherit that trait? I would of thought its their upbringing thats the key to that. ie ruffing them up from young, encouraging fighting, mistreating. Surely if at 6-8wks old a caring loving family takes them in and teaches them right from wrong this shouldnt be the case? even wc snakes can produce soppy tame offspring its and individuals life experiances/personality imo.


To be honest that isn't the point for me... Why put money nto the hands of a dog fighter, even if you think you can make the puppy nice?
Anyway tempermant is an inherheritted trait, you might get exceptions or it might take quite a bit of breeding but dogs bred from viscious parents could be more viscious, and they have 8 weeks or whatever to bring them up how they want before you get them.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

chewy86 said:


> Why not thats how ceaser rolls :devil:


Lol, yeah but when he boots a mutt in the ribs it's not a kick, _*"eets like a bite, dat is all he understands from zee pack leader"*_:notworthy:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I woke up this morning in a bad mood, I read this thread, it made me giggle, so thanks for putting a smile on my face:no1:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> I woke up this morning in a bad mood, I read this thread, it made me giggle, so thanks for putting a smile on my face:no1:



I bet that's the first time in a while bollocklegs has put a smile on a woman's face :lol2::whistling2:

Just kidding mate, you seem like a good sport. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Ah, you see, if American Pit Bull Terriers were legalised tomorrow, you can bet I wouldn't be buying a pup from all the breeders in the UK that suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and start offering "pit bull" puppies.

I'd be importing one that's been bred for correct temperament from the USA.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> Ah, you see, if American Pit Bull Terriers were legalised tomorrow, you can bet I wouldn't be buying a pup from all the breeders in the UK that suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and start offering "pit bull" puppies.
> 
> I'd be importing one that's been bred for correct temperament from the USA.



What would the quarantine laws be relating to importing one?

Is is still 6 months? Can't be, you'd never be able to socialise or house train if it were in a holding area for that long? Anyone know?


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

BSl dosent work.
Letting people own certain dogs doesnt work.
If they get rid of the DDA and remove the dogs something else will be put into place, its just a question as to what and run by who.

There are too many BB's in this country dying in pounds and rescues, being abused, used and murdered by there owners. Something has to be done...

Look at this girl the rescue took in as an emergency, she is in a critical state, there is the possibility that her body has been through too much to recover and she could be in shut down. She along with many other dogs in this country may never know what its like to be in a home and loved.
<Dogpages UK dog rescue forums>
Look into her eyes and tell her she deserved this, she derserved to be owned by someone who should never be allowed to own an animal again. And then tell me everyone has the right to own a Bull Breed.





Ssthisto said:


> Ah, you see, if American Pit Bull Terriers were legalised tomorrow, you can bet I wouldn't be buying a pup from all the breeders in the UK that suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and start offering "pit bull" puppies.
> 
> I'd be importing one that's been bred for correct temperament from the USA.


This is also a point I have made before. The APBT's in this country are mainly directly from fighting lines, imported from Europe and Ireland. And bred for fighting in this country. They are not pet strains of dog.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

SaltyTurtle said:


> What would the quarantine laws be relating to importing one?
> 
> Is is still 6 months? Can't be, you'd never be able to socialise or house train if it were in a holding area for that long? Anyone know?


As of the 1st Jan next year its being changed. Not too sure about animals from America though. It would cost a serious amount of money though.

Quarantine « Defra


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

marthaMoo said:


> BSl dosent work.
> Letting people own certain dogs doesnt work.
> 
> <Dogpages UK dog rescue forums>
> Look into her eyes and tell her she deserved this, she derserved to be owned by someone who should never be allowed to own an animal again. And then tell me everyone has the right to own a Bull Breed.


:devil:


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

em_40 said:


> To be honest that isn't the point for me... Why put money nto the hands of a dog fighter, even if you think you can make the puppy nice?
> Anyway tempermant is an inherheritted trait, you might get exceptions or it might take quite a bit of breeding but dogs bred from viscious parents could be more viscious, and they have 8 weeks or whatever to bring them up how they want before you get them.


my dad was a viscious bleeder and i mean viscious ! being a bare knuckle gypsi scrapper and im nothin like that yes its in me and i would do anyone that hurt mine! but i wouldnt go out of my way just just to smash anyone becouse its in my blood . utter load!!!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

bollocklegs said:


> utter load


So is your analogy.

*quickly runs out of thread*


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

bollocklegs said:


> my dad was a viscious bleeder and i mean viscious ! being a bare knuckle gypsi scrapper and im nothin like that yes its in me and i would do anyone that hurt mine! but i wouldnt go out of my way just just to smash anyone becouse its in my blood . utter load


yes but your a human being, not a dog. you cant compare the inherited characteristics of human beings with those of dogs. unless someone else has been selectively breeding your family for generations...

different breeds have been selectively bred for different jobs, in those different breeds there are some lines that are better at that job than others (especially in working breeds). more emphasis is based on breeding and expanding these lines because these characteristics are the ones most prized.

so in a dog predominantly bred in this country as a fighting dog, it stands to reason that the ones being bred are the ones that fight well, as this would be the most disired characteristic.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i wouldn't have a pit bull...


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Id have a Pitbull tomorrow if they would let me, lovely dogs. The rescue centre i worked in had unbanned breeds with far worse temperaments than the PBTs i worked with....but hey guess which ones got a second chance and which were pts :whistling2:

Any dog should be licensed in my oppinion, basic training etc....i dont see why this isnt the case, the government would even make some bucks from the licenses. I guess too many poor dogs would be abandoned by the :censor:'s that dont think twice before getting one though.....animal loving nation eh? :no1:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm torn on the issue.I don't want to see them legalised for their own sake,I think there would be more.On the other hand,when I see police raids on the telly and you see the breeding bitches and puppies ,often with kind submissive faces being confiscated and then killed it breaks my heart.I would have one.I don't really subscribe to the breeding for aggression.I think they are selected for their strength,athletic prowess and tenacity and then the vile humans exploit the aggression that lies in many breeds if not all ,I don't think pitbulls are more aggressive than any other powerful breed.I'd like the confiscated ones to be assesssed and then those that pass exempted.I would have one without hesitation.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Drayvan said:


> Any dog should be licensed in my oppinion, basic training etc....i dont see why this isnt the case, the government would even make some bucks from the licenses.


I know that dogs USED to be licenced in the UK - but that the scheme was scrapped because it was too expensive to enforce. I fully agree with licencing personally - but then I grew up in New Mexico and every dog had to have an up to date licence and rabies tag.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> I know that dogs USED to be licenced in the UK - but that the scheme was scrapped because it was too expensive to enforce. I fully agree with licencing personally - but then I grew up in New Mexico and every dog had to have an up to date licence and rabies tag.



This is true, I remember as a kid having to go to the Post Office once a year and buy a new Dog License. 

The standing joke was, it cost about *26p*. Everyone agreed that the cost of administrating it, and record keeping would cost more, per dog, per year than the revenues, and eventually they just scrapped it, instead of raising it to a reasonable amount (say 27p). :lol2:

I think all responsible dog owners would be willing to pay even up to £50 odd a year to be 'legit', but the problem lies in the fact that the undesirable element, the sort of people the law would be there to control, would just flout it like they seem to every other law.

That's the problem with the criminal justice system in Britain at present, how do you enforce laws on people who don't respect them, or the consequences of breaking them? (I digress) :whistling2:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

sarahc said:


> I'm torn on the issue.I don't want to see them legalised for their own sake,I think there would be more.On the other hand,when I see police raids on the telly and you see the breeding bitches and puppies ,often with kind submissive faces being confiscated and then killed it breaks my heart.I would have one.I don't really subscribe to the breeding for aggression.I think they are selected for their strength,athletic prowess and tenacity and then the vile humans exploit the aggression that lies in many breeds if not all ,I don't think pitbulls are more aggressive than any other powerful breed.I'd like the confiscated ones to be assesssed and then those that pass exempted.I would have one without hesitation.



Whereas I like the sentiment here, of 'innocent until proven guilty' and it all swings back to the whole 'nature/nurture' debate, I'll have to disagree.

Yes, I know as mentioned ALL dogs can be 'rehabilitated' as Ceasar Milan would say (or whisper, lol) but when comparing breeds we MUST recognise that traits are inherent, as mentioned earlier about terriers being good ratters, etc.

People choose spaniels and Labradors and retrievers as gun dogs because they're bred for the role, and have the right physical qualities for it. This is why they happen to be pretty damn good at it too.

With all the training in the world, I doubt a Chihuahua would make a very good police dog or guard dog, likewise I can't see Paris Hilton or any of those other vacuous Hollywood morons carrying a Rottweiler in her handbag! :gasp: 

It's the same with Boxers, they come up to you, playfully, and start to 'box' you with their paws. I'm sure owners haven't told them to do this 'because they're called Boxers', it must be an inherent behaviour, you see where I'm coming from? : victory:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

What about those with 4+ dogs thats £200 a year just to own a dog!!!
It should be free and be purely a check on your suitability to own a pet, we pay enough council tax and national insurance for one of them to have a team able to come out assess the situation and sign off on the owners rights to have a dog.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

As long as there's IDIOTS using them for the wrong thing, dogs will always be aggressive nothing to do with the breed, its how there treated thats at fault. If you get a pitbull pup from a litter and train it properly, treat it with respect, love it, dont let it be boss, feed it healthy regular meals, someone else gets 1 from the same litter, beat the hell out it, teach it to attack on command, starves it so its on edge, locks it up away from social interaction, then its going to be nasty, not a thing to do with its parents or its breed its PEOPLE THAT MAKE DANGEROUS DOGS.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

chewy86 said:


> What about those with 4+ dogs thats £200 a year just to own a dog!!!
> It should be free and be purely a check on your suitability to own a pet, we pay enough council tax and national insurance for one of them to have a team able to come out assess the situation and sign off on the owners rights to have a dog.


£200 :gasp: I do remember years ago dogs were licenced but it was only a few quid, I still think it would help keep track of dogs and there behavour, have them chiped and licenced but keep the costs low maybe about £10 a year or a one off payment. NO £200 a year.


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

dizzylynn said:


> As long as there's IDIOTS using them for the wrong thing, dogs will always be aggressive nothing to do with the breed, its how there treated thats at fault. If you get a pitbull pup from a litter and train it properly, treat it with respect, love it, dont let it be boss, feed it healthy regular meals, someone else gets 1 from the same litter, beat the hell out it, teach it to attack on command, starves it so its on edge, locks it up away from social interaction, then its going to be nasty, not a thing to do with its parents or its breed its PEOPLE THAT MAKE DANGEROUS DOGS.



Whilst I accept what you're getting at here, I think the point being made is that (and forget the good owners and dogs for a minute) when these types of dogs are (and they are) selected by the morons who want a fighter/anti-police dog, THEY CAN DO MORE DAMAGE, because they have breed characteristics which make them much harder to repel.

For example they are more powerful, pound for pound than many larger breeds, they are just chunks of lean muscle, and have jaws which they can lock-on with, making it nigh-on impossible to detach, bar using extreme violence on the dog.

This debate has been raging for years, I remember being given a copy of Police Review in 1991 which ran a cover story about problems policing criminals who owned American Pit Bulls.

Let's not be too dewy-eyed about the potential for disaster here, as the last week's news stories have shown, a large sector of the British public ARE NOT like you an I, and many of the other good people on this forum, and THEY are the ones who will misuse these dogs, and create problems for the dogs, which will ultimately get the nasty end of the stick.


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> £200 :gasp: I do remember years ago dogs were licenced but it was only a few quid, I still think it would help keep track of dogs and there behavour, have them chiped and licenced but keep the costs low maybe about £10 a year or a one off payment. NO £200 a year.


My apologies that was in response to an earlier post regarding the fee being £50ish a year. Not ideal for ie old people who want a dog for company and cant afford to pay out large sums of money for a silly money making scheme licence. If they cared about the animals/publics safety they would do it for free or cheap and not see £ signs like with everything else in this country. Ooooh people like to drink, smoke, drive their cars lets tax the crap out of those things and make money of the poorer folk! :censor:


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## SaltyTurtle (Jul 25, 2011)

chewy86 said:


> What about those with 4+ dogs thats £200 a year just to own a dog!!!
> It should be free and be purely a check on your suitability to own a pet, we pay enough council tax and national insurance for one of them to have a team able to come out assess the situation and sign off on the owners rights to have a dog.



Ok, before you get on Twitter and form a lynch mob :lol2: I was only pitching in somewhere with that figure, as perhaps an acceptable maximum.

Sure, if you've got 4 dogs, that's going to mount up, and £200 is a lot per year. For example my Shotgun Certificate is only £50 for 5 years.

I think compulsory microchipping would be a start, and the data could be linked to a licensing scheme, of some sort.

I'm not an MP, don't get paid as much, so I'll leave it for them to work something out. : victory:


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

Never used twitter, barely use facebook and if i used both frequantly I wouldnt make a lynch mob over a discussion of rfuk lol. What is the world coming to? 

:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Pit bull attacks and kills pregnant owner | ksdk.com

this was on the news here the other day... shame...


Pacifica husband forgives pet pit bull for fatal attack of his wife - San Jose Dogs | Examiner.com


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Whereas I like the sentiment here, of 'innocent until proven guilty' and it all swings back to the whole 'nature/nurture' debate, I'll have to disagree.
> 
> Yes, I know as mentioned ALL dogs can be 'rehabilitated' as Ceasar Milan would say (or whisper, lol) but when comparing breeds we MUST recognise that traits are inherent, as mentioned earlier about terriers being good ratters, etc.
> 
> : victory:


I have only to think of a family friend who is a policeman.Never owned a dog before but chose for his first family pet a sbt based on the fact that he had never seen such good natured dogs as the dubious bull breeds with dubious owners who even under the extreme circumstance of police forcing entry and making arrests never reacted with aggression.I think it's an outrage that innocent dogs are scrapped because of what they are.They should be exempted after assessment, with the rules that go hand in hand with that.I think the police support the dda so that they have a reason to gain entry to premises where they think criminal activity,organised of any sort is going on.The puppies,bitches,youngsters haven't been near a fight,they don't need rehabilitating,they just need responsible owners as do all powerful breeds.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

All dogs can have a bad side, if left to be that way, few years back 2 jackrussells killed a baby it in its pram out of pure jelousy, the new addition wasnt accepted so they tore her apart while the owners were in another room. My mother was attacked by a gsd years ago and holds it against the entire breed, yet Ive only seen 1 nasty gsd in years, and it attacked my Bess when the old woman had him out for a walk OFF the leash when her hubby never lets it off and backs away from folk that pass with dogs so it doesnt kill them, funny she didnt seem to care when it tried to kill my bess, I had to kick it to get it away from her which I was taking a big risk doing but shes my dog and half its size, couldnt stand and watch doing nothing, lucky it didnt turn on me but ran. I told the old bleep, get that dog on a leash before it kills something, she swears at me and walks away. Ignorance thats what that is.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> I know that dogs USED to be licenced in the UK - but that the scheme was scrapped because it was too expensive to enforce. I fully agree with licencing personally - but then I grew up in New Mexico and every dog had to have an up to date licence and rabies tag.


I think it would be a idea to make the microchipping price a little higher and link the licence to that making the microchip plus paper workk the licence. That way you get all the owner/dogs info, And to also maybe make it ilegal to sell dogs that aren't microchiped, So pup's would have to be microchiped before sale, And make it illegal to sell non microchipped dogs so they have to be given away not sold. That would maybe help with the back yard DIY Pit breeders, As they would have to get the pups chipped before sale, So they maybe wouldn't like the fact they may have to spend a couple hundred before they can get money back, Plus they will be chipped so have a trace back to them.

Somthing alone them lines anyway.


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

gazz said:


> I think it would be a idea to make the microchipping price a little higher and link the licence to that making the microchip plus paper workk the licence. That way you get all the owner/dogs info, And to also maybe make it ilegal to sell dogs that aren't microchiped, So pup's would have to be microchiped before sale, And make it illegal to sell non microchipped dogs so they have to be given away not sold. That would maybe help with the back yard DIY Pit breeders, As they would have to get the pups chipped before sale, So they maybe wouldn't like the fact they may have to spend a couple hundred before they can get money back, Plus they will be chipped so have a trace back to them.
> 
> Somthing alone them lines anyway.


But the people currently backyard breeding pits dont care about the law anyway. This would not work unless it could be enforced by police walking the streets and parks scanning every dog and confiscating any unchipped dogs. Fighting dogs are kept underground anyway as if people see a heavily scarred "pit type" dog walking the streets it is kind of obvious what its used for, so even if all dogs had to be chipped, the ones which give the breeds a bad name wouldnt get chipped anyway.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

trw said:


> But the people currently backyard breeding pits dont care about the law anyway. This would not work unless it could be enforced by police walking the streets and parks scanning every dog and confiscating any unchipped dogs. Fighting dogs are kept underground anyway as if people see a heavily scarred "pit type" dog walking the streets it is kind of obvious what its used for, so even if all dogs had to be chipped, the ones which give the breeds a bad name wouldnt get chipped anyway.


I'm thinking more on the frount of the selling Back yard DIY Pit's, Not the underground fighters there a differant group of people all together, In that making it ilegal to sell non microchiped dogs so it makes it a pain in the ass for people breeding and selling back gard DIY Pits pup's trying to make a quick buck.

I mean if they had to give the pup's away coz there not microchiped surly that would make a fair few to think twice about breeding them, If they had to get the pup's microchiped before they could sell them so putting them out of pocket before getting money back.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

They would tell the potential owner 'I'm selling it cheaper because I haven't got it chipped, if I did that myself I would have to charge you more' -buyer thinks- 'bargain' 

Thing is there are lots of good ideas but the truth is they are very difficult to enforce. Might make some people think twice atleast though, especially the ones who just don't think prior to breeding their dog. Period.

I think they went about the problem in the wrong way in the first place, but they have already destroyed lots of perfectly good pets and puppies, and the only ones left are the ones that are either spayed/neutered in order to be exempted or are illegal dogs owned by people, who I don't think should be breeding. So to bring them back, I think would be a mistake. What's done is done.

However if they did make it legal again, I would hope that it was a sort of a 'soft' reintroduction where the dogs and puppies in pounds were temperment assessed and if they passed they were allowed to live (first, maybe only ever). Then those pound dogs would be 'exempt' and it would work how it does already.

(sorry I typed so much :blush


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## YBSuser (Aug 14, 2011)

look all of you who are critisizing any type of dogs are very un-educated and shouldnt be replying on something they know nothing about, the way I see it, its not the animal thats supid and mean, its the owner. If an owner is stupid enough to let this animal fall into this position, they should lose the right to own a pet.


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## YBSuser (Aug 14, 2011)

I think "idiot" sums you up more accurately in this instance


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> BSl dosent work.
> Letting people own certain dogs doesnt work.
> If they get rid of the DDA and remove the dogs something else will be put into place, its just a question as to what and run by who.
> 
> ...


her eyes just made me cry,what a beautiful,beautiful mastiff.....makes me sick people make me sick.

i dont agree with BSL....And as much as i love pitbulls and would LOVE to own one...it would be bad bad news if they were legalised.
bad breeding,bad temperment lines and tbh i doubt many would be true ptbull blood with all the dodgy backyard breeding that goes on.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

YBSuser said:


> look all of you who are critisizing any type of dogs are very un-educated and shouldnt be replying on something they know nothing about, the way I see it, its not the animal thats supid and mean, its the owner. If an owner is stupid enough to let this animal fall into this position, they should lose the right to own a pet.


No one's critisising the breed itself. The backyard breeders and fighters who have already brought the dog to a possition which it can not be brought back from are a fault, people with 'status dogs', the people who saw it's courage and willingness to do ANYTHING for it's owner saw the possibilities to turn them on other dogs, people, the police and screwed the breed over, gave it a bad name, they are the ones at fault.

I don't agree with BSL but it's already been done. Those poor people who lost good family pets, poor innocent puppies PTS, and all that's left is a not very desirable breed in this country. Although if they were legalised you COULD import well bred dogs, who honestly would when there's suddenly pit puppies down the road.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

em_40 said:


> Although if they were legalised you COULD import well bred dogs, who honestly would when there's suddenly pit puppies down the road.


I would, because the "pit bull" puppies down the road are not temperament bred American Pit Bull Terriers.


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> I would, because the "pit bull" puppies down the road are not temperament bred American Pit Bull Terriers.


Unfortunately most people wouldn't.

Also how would you know who to trust when you can't see the dogs you are importing and dog fighting is bigger elsewhere? I guess there must be well known breeders, breedng for pets, but I wouldn't know where to start :lol2:


I like pits but I don't want one enough to import, personally. (I wouldn't be one of those people buying one from down the road either)


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

The trouble with any kind of strong or powerful breed dog (we have owned GSD's and now have a doberman) is that there are morons who will abuse them for fighting or train them to be evil. Just as there are back yard breeders of puppies of many breeds now. I don't think pits should be banned just as a breed. It is much more complicated than that. Problems with pits aren't with the dog, it is society that needs to be addressed and that is no easy (or even possible?) fix. American pits bred for good temperament are fantastic dogs. Same as our old GSD's and our doberman now. All were soppy soft family dogs (unless someone attacked one of the family and then they might be a bit more shirty). 


The DDA doesn't work as it is. People still have nasty dogs and it is stopping people that want a well bred APBT from having one. 

I'm all for having a licensing scheme (say £20 a year) in place but I am not sure that the country has the resources to police it.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

rach666 said:


> her eyes just made me cry,what a beautiful,beautiful mastiff.....makes me sick people make me sick.
> 
> i dont agree with BSL....And as much as i love pitbulls and would LOVE to own one...it would be bad bad news if they were legalised.
> bad breeding,bad temperment lines and tbh i doubt many would be true ptbull blood with all the dodgy backyard breeding that goes on.


Very sadly she lost her fight today and had to be put to sleep as she was very ill and was too weak to be treated. What life must she of had. Its heartbreaking for all who tried so hard to help her. The only good thing was that she knew love and kindness in her last days.

Someone somewhere bred this girl, sold her, and someone owned her. They are all to blame for her death. But they will never know or care about how she suffered and died. No one will be held responsible.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

Deed not breed! ! !


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

I haven't read the entire thread, beacuse..... well to be honest, I can't be bothered reading the opinions of small-minded people speculating on something they know nothing about.

I have an American Pit Bull. The story behind this is on my page, as comments on my 'wall', so I don't have to go over it again. She has never shown any aggression, and survived 6 months in a Police compound with numerous other dogs, as well as trained dog handlers whose job was to find aggression and present evidence to the court. They could find none, she played nicely with the other strange dogs, and when I went to court armed with photos of her and my daughter curled up in the dog bed together, the Magistrates agreed immediately to have her added to the Index of Exempted Dogs. 

I for one will be GLAD to see a ban lifted. I have to pay third party insurance each December for my dog, which was £42 per annum solely via PetPlan, but recent changes mean it is now £80 per annum, administered by someone else. It is NOT health insurance (which isn't available to exempted dogs) and there is NO other company to 'shop around' for prices. Also, I have to keep her on a lead and muzzled at all times. Now, these conditions would be fine with me, if they were for ALL dogs, but they're not. The amount of times a stupid yapping yorkie or jack russell has come, off it's lead, over to my girl, jumping on her and biting her, and what can she or I do? Nothing. If you muzzle one dog, muzzle them all! But they won't. 

The ban does not stop dog fighting, it just doesn't. Where I live I know of rottweilers and dobermanns that are used for fighting, and I have overheard a conversation in Tesco where a lad was giving his staffy illegal steroids and feeding it raw meat. Any dog can fight, any dog can be dangerous, just the same as ANY dog can be raised in a loving, family environment such as mine, and be a loyal, loving animal.

I will welcome whole-heartedly the removal of this 'Index of Exempted Dogs'.

Edit: Photos of my softie on my profile also.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

mstypical said:


> I haven't read the entire thread, beacuse..... well to be honest, I can't be bothered reading the opinions of small-minded people speculating on something they know nothing about.
> 
> I have an American Pit Bull. The story behind this is on my page, as comments on my 'wall', so I don't have to go over it again. She has never shown any aggression, and survived 6 months in a Police compound with numerous other dogs, as well as trained dog handlers whose job was to find aggression and present evidence to the court. They could find none, she played nicely with the other strange dogs, and when I went to court armed with photos of her and my daughter curled up in the dog bed together, the Magistrates agreed immediately to have her added to the Index of Exempted Dogs.
> 
> ...


totally agree, just want to add though that raw meat doesnt make a dog agressive 
Im so glad for you that your dog was one of the lucky ones


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

ami_j said:


> totally agree, just want to add though that raw meat doesnt make a dog agressive
> Im so glad for you that your dog was one of the lucky ones


Oh no I know it doesn't, but this bloody idiot in Tesco thought it did 

I'm glad too, you don't realise how much your dog means to you until someone tells you they want to destroy it, and for no reason other than her genes


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> Very sadly she lost her fight today and had to be put to sleep as she was very ill and was too weak to be treated. What life must she of had. Its heartbreaking for all who tried so hard to help her. The only good thing was that she knew love and kindness in her last days.
> 
> Someone somewhere bred this girl, sold her, and someone owned her. They are all to blame for her death. But they will never know or care about how she suffered and died. No one will be held responsible.


that made me cry..but like you said at least in her last few days she found out that not all humans are bad.poor poor girl RIP gorgeous girl x


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

mstypical said:


> Oh no I know it doesn't, but this bloody idiot in Tesco thought it did
> 
> I'm glad too, you don't realise how much your dog means to you until someone tells you they want to destroy it, and for no reason other than her genes


oh theres some pillocks :devil:

well for her looks really...even if they DNA tested her and she came back boxer cross lab they would of still taken her cos of her "stats" but im so glad she was one of the lucky ones, shes gorgeous. i just hope they find something that works, maybe at the other end of the lead


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

ami_j said:


> oh theres some pillocks :devil:
> 
> well for her looks really...even if they DNA tested her and she came back boxer cross lab they would of still taken her cos of her "stats" but im so glad she was one of the lucky ones, shes gorgeous. i just hope they find something that works, maybe at the other end of the lead


Thanks :blush: she is rather lovely, if not a little fat (whoops) but she doesn't get walked as often as I would like, it's difficult with the amount of unleashed yappies round here :devil: 

Yeah typing before i'd engaged brain, it was purely stats I have a huuuge folder that they sent me before court, detailing the standards they were setting her against and she was 'perfect', i.e. had no faults, I thought she was a goner but her personality saved the day :no1:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I know it's late, and I'm a bit brain dead even during the day, but where did you get her from?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

LisaLQ said:


> I know it's late, and I'm a bit brain dead even during the day, but where did you get her from?


Me? From a reputable dog rescue, labelled as a Portuguese Pointer x Staffordshire Bull


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Sorry, just read your wall, and saw she's not an american pit bull terrier, but a staffy cross - my mistake - told you it was late! :blush:


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

No she's not a staffy cross, that's what the home said she was, the Police dog handler deemed different. Just wanted people to know I didn't intentionally seek out a pit bull.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I would take the advice of the rescue over a policeman any day. They cant even remember to give their dogs water, let alone id one.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

It's just when I thought back to how the home were with me, there were about 3 members of staff and they were.... just strange.... I mean they liked her and all but when I think back, I think they said she was that so she didn't get PTS. Whatever she is she's great, but in the eyes of the stupid law she's an APB.


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## boerboel_1984 (Mar 17, 2008)

SaltyTurtle said:


> Why is that excellent, haven't we got enough 'Staffies', 'Rotties' and the like littering our dog rehoming centres as it is, when irrepsopsible chavs seeking a 'status symbol' take these breeds on before realising they can't actually be arsed with the whole faff of ownership, and kick the poor little beggar out.
> 
> WHY do we need Pit Bulls back on the streets of this country?
> 
> ...


The fact they are banned has not stopped scum from owning them. In fact it increases their mystique and appeal to exactly the sort of individuals who should not own any breed of dog let alone a powerful breed. Banning breeds is not the answer at all. Any chav who wants a status dog can get a rotti, staff, am bulldog or illegal pit bull if they want so debanning breeds will not change this. What will is tighter regulations on who can own dogs full stop.
Why should I be prevented from owning a pit or dogo because the media and ignorant politicians have deemed them more dangerous than other breeds? A working Neopolitan mastiff or caucasian ovcharka is much more dangerous to a human, but any ignorant chav can legally own one.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

They just move on to the next available tough looking breed. Akitas, GSDs, rotties, staffs, mastiffs, etc etc. And one by one each breed will also get banned. 

When the ban is extended to include dobermanns, will you agree with it then?


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Theoretically this could just end up with every dog being banned. BSL is not the answer, it just forces people who use these dogs for reasons other than a family pet, further underground. I would rather see mandatory microchipping and registering for every dog. Obviously as mentioned before people would still have un-registered dogs for a while, but eventually, they would need a vet, they would be picked up as a stray, the police would find the odd few un-registered, and eventually it would be a very small number that weren't monitored. An un-registered dog would become like an untaxed car, people around you would resent you for it, they pay for theirs why aren't you paying for yours?


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## J2mes (Mar 4, 2011)

i owned one of these dogs before the ban came in many moons ago, and in all fairness best dog i have ever owned, you will not find a beter dog than a well bred american pit. regarding the problem we have now, there are so many half bred aggressive pits that arent a good example of the breed being brought in from ireland, kills me to say but we should never have these dogs back in england, most responsible owners are scared of them due to the media, i would love to be able to get another but i feel its unfair to the dog, i love them but they should stay banned


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

J2mes said:


> i owned one of these dogs before the ban came in many moons ago, and in all fairness best dog i have ever owned, you will not find a beter dog than a well bred american pit. regarding the problem we have now, there are so many half bred aggressive pits that arent a good example of the breed being brought in from ireland, kills me to say but we should never have these dogs back in england, most responsible owners are scared of them due to the media, i would love to be able to get another but i feel its unfair to the dog, i love them but they should stay banned


For what reason should they stay banned? People are scared of them? In all fairness people are scared of staffs, for what reason I don't know. I don't see how breed specific legislation solves anything. Please tell me ONE problem BSL has solved.


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## J2mes (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm saying they should stay banned because of all of the poor quality aggresive examples about the majority being crosses, the pitbulls about now are nothing like they used to be, a good pitbull was trained for generations to be dog aggressive but to show no aggression to humans, the ones around now are purely guard dogs and status objects do you honestly think these people breed them to not show any aggression, this is the problem most dogs have been screwed up my these little chavs that it's not viable to lift a ban on them. Just my opinion tho


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

bollocklegs said:


> well u just chastised me for agreeing with the bann i love all dogs but bull breeds are my love *i have 2 british bulldogs does that make me a dim witted, brain dead*, nylon- clad zombie *does it* ???:devil:


IMHO yes. Anyone who buys into a breed with human bred deformities of their face and airways that leads to eye, breathing and heart problems is 2p short of a pound. Or a brain dead dimwit as you put it.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

J2mes said:


> I'm saying they should stay banned because of all of the poor quality aggresive examples about the majority being crosses, the pitbulls about now are nothing like they used to be, a good pitbull was trained for generations to be dog aggressive but to show no aggression to humans, the ones around now are purely guard dogs and status objects do you honestly think these people breed them to not show any aggression, this is the problem most dogs have been screwed up my these little chavs that it's not viable to lift a ban on them. Just my opinion tho


Anyone who uses the word 'chav' instantly winds me up. I walk my dog wearing an Adidas tracksuit (sometimes Lonsdale!), I live in a council house, had a baby at 17 and even own a big pair of gold earrings. Am I a chav?

Before you answer, I am also a qualified mental health professional who also volunteers regularly with the NSPCC and Cancer Research. I walk my dog in sportswear because I like to run with her and couldn't well do it in jeans and stilettos. I live in a council house because I like to practice what I preach, and I couldn't symapthise with my service users coming from a 5 bed detached in Cheshire. And it's cheaper and leave more free cash to spend on reps. 

Now i've got that out of my system, go and find out your facts. Most of the pit bulls put to sleep are done so because the owners don't turn up to court, NOT because they are aggressive, or have ever been used for fighting. The majority of people you consider to be 'chavs' actually have an admirable ethos which means they put their family and friends before anything and would probably kill for them, this includes pets. They wouldn't fight them for money, be realistic, where would the money come from? There are much more profitable 'chav' activities as i'm sure you will all already speculate. 

Why they don't turn up to court I don't know, but an educated guess would be fear in the justice system, a lack of faith in the justice system, and the general intimidation endured throughout the whole experience. I know, because i've been there and done it. The pits out there today are no more dangerous than a rottweiler, alsatian, or dobermann. Maybe even less so. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them on the Index. 

If they de-banned them do you think the small number who had been used for fighting would emerge onto the streets and start chasing down children? No, because dog fighting would still be illegal, and the people who own them would still not allow them to be seen by the general public.


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## J2mes (Mar 4, 2011)

Im sorry if my comment has annoyed you it is just my opinion, its just i have owned a pitbull before they where banned and seen what they used to be like and and also seen supposedly good ones that are about now and the difference in absurd. and no i dont think you are a chav because you wear tracksuits, wearing a tracksuit doesnt make you a chav, i think we have different definitions of a chav, this is obviously a sore point for you so ill leave it my intention on this was not to wind anyone up it was merely to say i dont think a ban should be lifted on them. every dog is different i appreciate that and you obviously have a nice one so fair game.


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## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

J2mes said:


> Im sorry if my comment has annoyed you it is just my opinion, its just i have owned a pitbull before they where banned and seen what they used to be like and and also seen supposedly good ones that are about now and the difference in absurd. and no i dont think you are a chav because you wear tracksuits, wearing a tracksuit doesnt make you a chav, i think we have different definitions of a chav, this is obviously a sore point for you so ill leave it my intention on this was not to wind anyone up it was merely to say i dont think a ban should be lifted on them. every dog is different i appreciate that and you obviously have a nice one so fair game.


Any type of stereotyping is a sore point for me, but I appreciate your comments. Like you say, the difference in so-called pit bulls over the years is drastic, which is why the ban is stupid and contradictory. The police have a set of 'standards' which, to be fair, would see a lot of staffs banned if the police felt the need. The dogs they are banning aren't always what most people would consider to be pit bulls anyway, so it's achieving nothing positive. I think my earlier suggestion of mandatory microchipping and registration would in the long term work better.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

no dogs should be banned...

some people should be banned from owning them however....: victory:


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