# A question for all you Leo keepers...



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys. Yeah, new guy here...

This will probably seem like a daft question, but humour me for a minute. 

Having an interest in Geckos and after wanting to keep them for a number of years now, my living circumstances are finally allowing me to be able to do so; I'm of the sensible sort, and so I'm intending to start off small with a Leopard Gecko or two. But before I commit to holding the life of any herp in my hands, I want to be sure that I'm financially-capable of caring for the lovely little buggers. 

So, here's my question, aimed at everyone who keeps Leos: How much, on average, does it cost to keep them per-month?

I know this is probably a question that's about as tricky to answer as it seems silly of me to ask it in the first place, but I'd just like a vague idea of how much I need to set aside each week/month for feed ect, so I can at least make some semblance of preparation. Also, after doing some research on costs for vivs and an Exo-Terra starter kit, I'm thinking I need a starting budget of about £150. What do you think of this figure; too low? Just right?

Reading 'The Leopard Gecko Manual' (Herpetocultual Library) and visiting the pet shop every other day can only take a guy so far, y'know?

All comments and opinions are kindly welcomed.


----------



## weemanelite (Jul 28, 2010)

In answer to your question I would estimate that I spend about £10 every second week. Taking into account bugs, substrate and other bits and bobs. But I am near the cheapest shop so I guess if you allow £15 - £20 every two weeks I would think that will cover it.

There are a lot of care sheets available on here, if you can't find one 'sleepydee Geckos' website wil have one and its good. They wil generally tell you wwhat you need and then it's just a case of shopping round. The cheap shop I mention is online and is called Surrey Pet Supplies' check them out as you may get stuff cheaper.

Good luck with it all and don't be afraid to ask questions on here even if it seems silly.


----------



## weemanelite (Jul 28, 2010)

Oh and welcome to the forum!


----------



## beaniebopps (Oct 4, 2009)

weemanelite said:


> In answer to your question I would estimate that I spend about £10 every second week. Taking into account bugs, substrate and other bits and bobs. But I am near the cheapest shop so I guess if you allow £15 - £20 every two weeks I would think that will cover it.
> 
> There are a lot of care sheets available on here, if you can't find one 'sleepydee Geckos' website wil have one and its good. They wil generally tell you wwhat you need and then it's just a case of shopping round. The cheap shop I mention is online and is called Surrey Pet Supplies' check them out as you may get stuff cheaper.
> 
> Good luck with it all and don't be afraid to ask questions on here even if it seems silly.


I would say thats a generous budget if I'm being totally honest. Most shops do live food tubs at around 3 for £6. I get 3 tubs every 2nd week, so thats £12 a month. Of course theres calcium and nutrobal, which will cost about £12 for a tub of each, but that should around a year so is included in the set-up.

I feed the livefood tesco value porridge which is practically free its so cheap, and dandelion leaves from the garden. 

£150 for start up cost sounds about spot on, and £15 a month is a realistic budget for food. Maybe an extra couple pound for electricity. And then all you need to make sure if you have an emergency supply of £100 or so just incase they need vet treatment.


----------



## bluesimon (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi, I buy all my Leo needs online, I find Swell reptiles great for all vivs, heat mats, stats and thermometers, and anything else you need, and I buy all my locust and meal worms online at the live food warehouse, I have 6 leos, 4 adult who eat about 4 large locust each 3x a week, 1 juvenile 3-4 med large locust daily, and a 5 month old who will eat 6 med/ large daily, when we got the youngest one he seemed younger than we were told and weighed only 15 grams, we started feeding him s/m locust and he was eating 12 twice a day, and doubled his weight in a month, 
You monthly cost will depend on what age your gecko will be but breaking down costs £10-15 seems about right, also crickets are cheaper than locust but I don't use them, mealworms are good to but only 1 of mine eats them,
Hope this helps
Welcome to the forum, 
Regards
Lisa


----------



## awh (Aug 20, 2008)

:welcome:
hi welcome to the forum hope you enjoy your self on here 

£150 sounds about right for a set up then i would say a box of crickets a week 
you would need calcium and nutrobal for dusting crickets

I use cheap goldfish flakes and apple for feeding crickets


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks very much for all the advice, guys. It's good to know where to come for help. awh, thanks for the cricket feeding advice, I was wondering about that. 

I'm really looking forward to getting this show on the road, now; I have to head up to the London MCM Expo with some friends for the last weekend of this month (Anyone else here going? We might run into each-other. ), a trip that's both annual and planned months in-advance, or else I'd be setting this up right now. As it is, I have to wait until at least November for my finances to recover, and I can't exactly justify shooting off to London having just bought a brand-new gecko, that'd be cruel.

Also, did a bit of research on vivarium tables last night and today at my local petshop; my room is an attic room, and I have limited standing height, only 3 feet give/take a centimetre until the wall slopes out and becomes the ceiling, so I need a table that sits relatively low to the floor but still has the various cupboards and shelves needed for storage. Strange situation, I know, but I have to make do, as I don't have a seperate room where it'd be possible, or for that matter _safe_, to keep the viv away from the odd inquisitive visitor. Can anyone suggest some help, in this regard?

Cheers again, guys.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

I've just bought my first Leo (far from my first reptile mind  ) and it cost me; £30 for the viv, £10 for the heat mat, £26 for the stat, furniture and decor I already had lying around, and then of course £15 for the Leo. 

Look on classifieds etc, I got my Leo from a breeder and my heatmat from a private advert.

Food - 3 boxes of mealworms £6, I feed the mealworms value range oatmeal and potatoes. 3 boxes last around a month, mine's only a baby. Electricity, I honestly don't notice the difference from before I had reps, and that's 12 snakes and 3 lizards later. : victory:

With regards your table, a TV stand?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Okay, guys. The London date is three weeks yesterday (friday). I reckon it'll be about 4-6 weeks, from now, until I can afford to set up and buy a gecko. TwinPet currently has three Leopard Geckos in-stock, but I haven't been able to get a very good look at them, and the staff aren't being very forthcoming with the age of their livestock or the name of the breeder. I will be sure to insist on viewing any and all geckos before committing to a buy, and will thoroughly inspect whatever they have on the day; if their stock isn't looking too savvy, I'll hold off and either buy from a breeder, or from the classifieds.

Table problem's all wrapped up, Argos to the rescue as usual.




As for my setup to-be, I figure I'm going with the following:

Exo Terra PT2602 Viv (30cm x 30cm x 45cm)
Exo Terra Leopard Gecko Startup Kit
- Compact Top
- ReptiGlo 2.0 bulb
- Heat Rock
- Thermometer
- Feeding Dish
- Water Dish
- Reptile Cave
I also have the following care books:

The Leopard Gecko Manual (_Herp. Library_, 2004 Ed.)
Pet Owner's Guide to the: Leopard Gecko (Noel & Janet Morgan, 2002)
I know there are other bits and pieces of kit I need; the care books don't detail what I should have, so I'm not too terribly sure what I'm missing; recommendations, anyone? TwinPet are overstocked with the magnetic Reptile Dens in various sizes, so I might also add one of those.

So, what am I missing/overlooking, guys? I feel like, and _know_, I'm ill-prepared, and they do say knowing is half the battle...


----------



## Paul B (Apr 16, 2008)

Hmm

I assume the viv is 45 cm long rather than high.
IMO this is far too small and should be at least 60cm long x 30 x 30.

Dump the heat rock.

Buy a heat mat that is a third of the size of the base of the viv.
Buy a mat stat to ensure the mat does not get too hot.

The UV is a debatable point. As Leos are nocturnal they really dont see a lot of the sun.

They do need a damp hide to assist with shedding.

Unfortunately the "starter kits" sold by large pet superstores tend to be useless or only suitable for the first few months of the animals life.

If the employees of the business are not keen to tell you the most important things about the creatures you buy i suggest you buy them elsewhere. P


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Paul B said:


> Hmm
> 
> I assume the viv is 45 cm long rather than high.
> IMO this is far too small and should be at least 60cm long x 30 x 30.


This is the viv I'm taking about: Exo Terra PT2602

It's one of the two vivs, the other being the PT2605, recommended for use with the Exo Terra Leopard Gecko Starter Kit - these two vivs' model numbers are printed on the packaging of Exo Terra's own Leo starter kit, thus I assumed it would be okay to use this viv; I'd also like to stress, however, that I'm going to start with just one gecko, and with that in-mind I thought this viv would be big enough. If that assumption was wrong, I'm glad someone had the good sense to point this out to me now, rather than scream at me later for having too small a vivarium -- Thank you, Paul. 

I have since revised the master plan and gone for a shorter, sturdier table to accomodate the larger, slightly-heavier PT2605 viv which is 45cm x 45cm x 45cm. If this is still not long enough, I may be able to really stretch to a PT2610 (L61cm x D45.7 x H45.7), though this will easilly swallow most of my total budget, and may make the purchase of the starter kit a total waste of money as everything in it will either be of no use, or for entirely the wrong tank. Please see the second paragraph of post #7 for details of the height restrictions of my attic bedroom.



Paul B said:


> Dump the heat rock.
> Buy a heat mat that is a third of the size of the base of the viv.
> Buy a mat stat to ensure the mat does not get too hot.


Yeah, I thought that too, and it confused me as to why there wasn't a heat mat included in the starter kit.



Paul B said:


> The UV is a debatable point. As Leos are nocturnal they really dont see a lot of the sun.


 They need to get UV from somewhere though, right? Something about specific vitamins; it's not in either of the care books I have, but I know I read it somewhere.



Paul B said:


> They do need a damp hide to assist with shedding.


 Yeah, I know about sphagnum moss in the moist hide; just not sure where in the temp gradient the hide should go.



Paul B said:


> Unfortunately the "starter kits" sold by large pet superstores tend to be useless or only suitable for the first few months of the animals life.
> 
> If the employees of the business are not keen to tell you the most important things about the creatures you buy i suggest you buy them elsewhere. P


I was wary about the 'shop special' starter kits, myself, so I opted for the Exo Terra brand one. I think Paul's nicely summed up its failings, but has anyone here had actual experience with this starter kit? Please leave a comment.

Frankly, when it comes to the reptiles they stock, I think TwinPet (small, family-run business with a total of 2 shops) have a policy that goes something like, "The less we know to tell people, the happier we are." That said, I'm not all that sure the staff at TwinPet like me very much; it might be 'cause I'm frequently in the Exotics section but never actually *buy* anything. If they'd actually stopped and asked what I'm interested in, or even tried to sell me something, they'd know that my stepfather is terrified of anything that has scales, and thus, until recently my living situation hasn't enabled me to keep reptiles of any kind.

Thanks again for the stern advice, Paul. I'm slightly Autistic, and I don't always recognise the hint first-time, so I think it good when someone is blunt in stopping me and saying, "Uh, no, you're doing it wrong..."


----------



## dannysargent (Oct 7, 2011)

i have one leo and it only costs me about £10 per month depending on what food i get that mounth as locust cost a bit more than crickets and pinkies.


----------



## tommivercetti (Apr 30, 2011)

Personally i would get a wooden viv, i find the exo's abit hard to heat.

I'm currently selling one as all my leo's are in wooden vivs now.

There is a big debate on UV but personally i keep them without UV as they will do just fine if you correctly supplement their food


----------



## olivine (Feb 5, 2009)

Hello and :welcome: to the forum. 

In all honesty, I wouldn't buy an exo terra viv for a leo, but would instead get a wooden viv, for example (though I'm sure that you can probably find a suitable viv cheaper if you shop around). There are a couple of problems with using glass vivs for leos: firstly, it can be difficult to maintain the correct temperature, as they lose heat rapidly; secondly, the glass can leave a leo feeling very exposed / vulnerable, so they often seem to thrive better in a wooden viv where they feel more secure. As a guide, a 60cm x 30cm x 30cm viv (or equivalent floor area) would be the absolute minimum I'd use for one adult leo.

In terms of the rest of the kit then, as has already been suggested, I'd be inclined to buy individual components rather than a starter kit, as the kits often lack essential pieces of equipment / contain stuff that's really unsuitable. Try checking out the information on SleepyD's website: it contains a list of all the essentials you'll need for a leo, as well as giving excellent advice on leo care. You should definitely be able to get all of the kit that you'll need for £150 (though, obviously, the total amount will vary depending on the decor you choose for the viv etc).

Leos are generally relatively cheap to care for. For one adult, you'd probably need two to three of tubs of live food per month, (which should cost no more than about £10 in total), plus sundries such as a pot of pure calcium plus a pot of Nutrobal (or similar) mineral / vitamin supplement, which you'd probably only need to buy once or twice per year if you're going to keep just one leo (these can last months, though you need to be aware of the fact that Nutrobal does have a 'use by' date and does degrade after opening) and disinfectant for cleaning the viv / decor etc (personally, I use F10SC concentrate: though it's initially more expensive to buy than the disinfectants sold in most pet shops, by the time you dilute it to the correct concentration it will last a lot longer and work out far more economical in the long run). Plus, of course, there's the other stuff that's far more difficult to budget for, such as vet bills etc (although leos are generally hardy critters, the vet bills can sometimes be quite hefty when things do go wrong, so I tend to save a set amount each month so that I have a 'pot' set aside to cover such eventualities as / when the need arises).


----------



## tommivercetti (Apr 30, 2011)

> Yeah, I know about sphagnum moss in the moist hide; just not sure where in the temp gradient the hide should go.


Put it wherever you can get 28-31c so somewhere in warm end


----------



## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

I have just moved in with my missus but at my parents I had the attic room with about he same clearance you are describing and managed two snakes and 6 geckos honestly you'll be surprised what you can squeeze in if you try ha ha. 

found it hard to stop at one mind, and near the end of living at home my clan spilled over into the other halfs place :whistling2:


----------



## scottishsany (Nov 5, 2009)

*tank*

hi and welcome..I would get a wooden viv look ebay etc just to get you going or make one long as it holds heat..Ebay is your best bet or gumtree you can buy everthing.. it will cost you less than £30 get started and see what happens and i bet you get more..All the best sandy


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys. Had a bit of a rethink after considering everyone's advice so far, and I've decided to ditch the Exo Terra option in favour of a wooden vivarium w/ complete nocturnal setup, as sold by _Reptile Cymru_ for £99.



FYI, the setup includes:

professionally-manufactured wooden vivarium, L24 x W18 x D18", w/ toughened glass doors
heat mat
thermostat
light fitting w/ bulb (choice of white, red, and blue)
substrate
thermometer
hide & water bowl
A dimmer thermostat for the light was also available for an extra £40, not sure if I'll need it.

Paid the _Reptile Cymru_ premises a visit today to check them out and have a chat, and although it was a bit small, I was impressed with the place. The lad manning the counter seemed quite knowledgeable, and the animals on display were alert, active, happy-looking and generally seemed well looked-after. 

The shop also had a good, broad range of equipment and vivarium accessories in-stock, which I consider a good thing. For what my opinion may be worth, the place gets an all-round green light, and I'd be more than happy to do business with them in the near future.

I've also decided that my first Leo should be a female standard morph; though I quite like some of the more exotic morphs – _Diablo Blanco_ is a personal favourite, along with _Blazing Blizzard_ – they can be expensive, and I'm not sure if certain morphs have more specific care needs, so I think it's better to be safe and start basic than be sorry a few months down the line.

What's everyone think?


----------



## bigd_1 (May 31, 2011)

I've also decided that my first Leo should be a female standard morph; though I quite like some of the more exotic morphs – _Diablo Blanco_ is a personal favourite, along with _Blazing Blizzard_ – they can be expensive, and I'm not sure if certain morphs have more specific care needs, so I think it's better to be safe and start basic than be sorry a few months down the line.
:welcome:
all morph have the same care needs and have a look on here for your leo you will get 1 cheeper and from a breeder and the set up look ok to me but see wot the leo ppl say


----------



## Spot (Jun 15, 2011)

That set up looks fine.

You won't need a dimmer thermostat for a leo, and only a low wattage bulb so he doesn't overheat - the viv heat is provided by the heatmat.

In fact a light isn't necessary at all if you're placing his viv in a decently lit room. They need to have an indication of the day/night cycle is all. People often use a blue or red bulb to watch their little guy at night.

So if the room is well lit, lighting is optional.

Add a thermometer to keep an eye on your temps, get his vitamins, calcium & bugs and you're good to go.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys, back again with another probably-very-noob question, but I'm curious bugger, so here goes.

What's all this about CB numbers? I see people advertising their herp as 'CB10' or 'CB11', and I have absolutely no idea what the hell it means -- but I get the feeling I _should_, and that it's important. The way it's written tells me it's a classification of some sort, which in-turn tells me there's probably a set of guidelines somewhere, but Google isn't being my friend today. So, would anyone care to elaborate a bit, please?

Also, in much-less trivial news, tomorrow (Dec 10th) may well be the day I finally take the first steps to keeping geckos; my dad and I are going for a drive to Cardiff, to check out the exotic pet shops in the area, including _Reptile Cymru_, with the intent of looking at some vivariums and maybe picking up one with full set-up

I'll be honest, I like _Reptile Cymru_. Been there, got a good feel for the place; small but knowledgeable, they breed their own stock, the staff seemed trustworthy; generally they damn-well impressed me. My dad likes to shop around, though, so he also wants to check out the _Cardiff Reptile Centre_ just down the road. Took a look at their website last night, they seem savvy enough, but we'll see what it's like when we get there. 

Their price for an adult basic-morph Leo does not impress me, and their website doesn't state what morphs they stock. Their full set-up packages also don't include the vivarium itself, and they don't state whether they're breeders or they just buy the animals in; if it's the latter, I _will_ expect someone to be reasonably knowledgeable on where/who their animals have come from, and be able to give me the basics on their stock (age, weight, gender if the animal is old enough), and I will be disappointed if they can't - and if they're not willing, they've already lost a potential customer.

Also, they stock Tokay Geckos; I find this in-itself to be a bit disconcerting. We all know most Tokays seen in pet shops are wild-caught and are likely to come with all the unfortunate trimmings that suggests. I _will_ expect the staff to be upfront on whether their Tokays are wild-caught or or not; at the very least they should able to tell me either way. If they say their Tokays are captive-bred, I'll want some proof; I've always liked the loud-mouthed little buggers and I may consider acquiring one in the future, but I'm not willing to buy _anything_ wild-caught.

So yes, tomorrow will be fun to say the least. Hopefully, I'll report back tomorrow evening having acquired a brand-new vivarium with full set-up. I plan to have the viv for a week or so before buying a gecko, to make sure I've got everything I should have and that everything's in working order. So, how do you guys go about setting up your leo vivs? ^_^


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

CB means captive bred, the number after it is the year, so both my Leos are CB11, which means captive bred this year. WC means wild caught, and there are others like LTC which means wild caught but long term captive (snakes more than anything). 

Consider the classifieds - both of mine which are rather nice morphs, cost me £15 each.

Bear in mind, a Tokay has different husbandry than a Leopard, just in case you fancy one tomorrow at the shop!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> CB means captive bred, the number after it is the year, so both my Leos are CB11, which means captive bred this year. WC means wild caught, and there are others like LTC which means wild caught but long term captive (snakes more than anything).


Thanks for that, it was staring me in the face now that I think about it. Sometimes my brain just requires a sharp verbal smack upside the head for something to make sense.



mstypical said:


> Consider the classifieds - both of mine which are rather nice morphs, cost me £15 each.


I am thinking about it, but I'd really rather purchase my first animal from someone I know has at least a few years' worth of breeding experience behind them.



mstypical said:


> Bear in mind, a Tokay has different husbandry than a Leopard, just in case you fancy one tomorrow at the shop!


I know Tokays have different husbandry, and I have absolutely no intention of purchasing an animal I don't know how to care for.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Thanks for that, it was staring me in the face now that I think about it. Sometimes my brain just requires a sharp verbal smack upside the head for something to make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The shops don't breed them themselves, they use private breeders. I, for instance, have recently sold 12 baby corns to a pet shop. They never asked me any questions, just agreed to buy them. They were actually quite shocked when I turned up with feeding/shedding records for all of them. All you are doing by buying from the classifieds is cutting out the expensive middle man.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys, just dropping by with the after-action report of today's vivarium hunt. What a freakin' day!

We visited _Reptile Cymru_ first-and-foremost, and came away with a larger setup than I was hoping for - we got the 3ft Nocturnal setup (36"L x 18"W x 18"D viv, plus the usual kit of heat mat/thermostat/lighting and hides), and honestly I would have been pleased if my dad had stopped the buck there...but he didn't.

I am now the proud owner of a normal-morph female and - get this - a Blazing Blizzard, also female.

And this is the best part: we got both for *just £75*. That BlazBliz is normally a solid £100 on her own. I was, and kinda-sorta still am, justifiably stunned by today's turn of events.

One of the geckos is 6 months old, and the other is a year-and-a-half old; I'm not sure which is which, it was explained to me, but in the confusion I forgot to write it down. I decided to take the viv and setup immediately, but to leave the Leos at the shop for a few days, to give me time to set up the viv, make sure that there isn't a problem with any of the equipment, and to monitor my room and the viv for temperature variations. Once everything is toot-sweet, we'll go back down next saturday - but possibly sometime during the week if my dad gets home early enough - and pick up my new room-mates.

The normal-morph was incredibly active, inquisitive, and friendly. She seemed really used to being handled, and even seemed to enjoy it. The Blazing Blizzard was a little more shy, but that's by no-means a drawback.

We got the kit home around 2pm-ish, it's now almost 7pm, and I am still shaking from the excitement. This is insane! I keep pinching myself, to see if I don't wake up or something!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> The shops don't breed them themselves, they use private breeders. I, for instance, have recently sold 12 baby corns to a pet shop. They never asked me any questions, just agreed to buy them. They were actually quite shocked when I turned up with feeding/shedding records for all of them. All you are doing by buying from the classifieds is cutting out the expensive middle man.


Ah, but that's the difference with Reptile Cymru - they do have an on-site breeding program, and try to produce their own stock where/whenever possible, and I thoroughly commend them for that.

Like I said - it gives me confidence, knowing I'm buying from people who really know what they're doing.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Are you planning on housing those two together?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Are you planning on housing those two together?


No, absolutely not. Differing husbandry requirements means seperate housing. I know people have had some success in keeping Leos together with Cresties, but I'm not sure it's even _safe_ to keep Leos and Tokays together. They have different habits, and different habitats. I can tell you with absolute certainty that I wouldn't even _think_ about trying that.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> No, absolutely not. Differing husbandry requirements means seperate housing. I know people have had some success in keeping Leos together with Cresties, but I'm not sure it's even _safe_ to keep Leos and Tokays together. They have different habits, and different habitats. I can tell you with absolute certainty that I wouldn't even _think_ about trying that.


You didn't say you had cresties or tokays? I meant the two you just bought? Are they not Leos?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> You didn't say you had cresties or tokays? I meant the two you just bought? Are they not Leos?


My two new purchases are indeed Leos, and I don't own any other reptiles at this point in time. What are you getting at, here?

Please excuse me if I seem a bit distracted tonight, as I _am_ just about to pass out on my feet. It's beena long and tring day, and I really need some sleep.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> My two new purchases are indeed Leos, and I don't own any other reptiles at this point in time.
> 
> Please excuse me if I seem a bit distant tonight, as I _am_ just about to pass out on my feet. It's beena long and tring day, and I really need some sleep


Don't apologise to me:lol2: 

I think we misunderstood each other is all. Are you keeping the two new Leos in the same habitat?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Don't apologise to me:lol2:
> 
> I think we misunderstood each other is all. Are you keeping the two new Leos in the same habitat?


Yes, they will be kept in the same habitat, once we bring them home next weekend. I now have a 3ft viv waiting for them, which is a damn-sight bigger than the 2ft I was expecting to get, to be honest, but at least they'll have lots of space...and knowing myself the way I do, lots of space will probably mean lots of company at some point, lol.

I still can't quite get my head around the idea that one of my first pair of Leos will be a Blazing Blizzard.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Yes, they will be kept in the same habitat, once we bring them home next weekend. I now have a 3ft viv waiting for them, which is a damn-sight bigger than the 2ft I was expecting to get, to be honest, but at least they'll have lots of space...and knowing myself the way I do, lots of space will probably mean lots of company at some point, lol.
> 
> I still can't quite get my head around the idea that one of my first pair of Leos will be a Blazing Blizzard.


Don't know how to say it without sounding like i'm trying to burst your bubble, but there are some possible problems with housing them together. Firstly, be absolutely positive, they are both female. I bought a male MHD from a reputable reptile shop and it turned out to be gravid, hence a female. Secondly, have they been together before? Even if they have, chances are they may at some point start fighting. I'd say there's a higher chance for you, as they are different sizes/ages. Trust me, i've not just read it from a website, I speak from experience. If you really want to keep them together, have a spare viv ready in case of fighting, they will need separating and you must have a viv ready. Also, I wouldn't put any more than 2 in there. My Leo's have 2ft of space each, 3ft is not really big enough for more than 2. 

Hope you take the advice the way it was intended : victory:


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Don't know how to say it without sounding like i'm trying to burst your bubble, but there are some possible problems with housing them together. Firstly, be absolutely positive, they are both female. I bought a male MHD from a reputable reptile shop and it turned out to be gravid, hence a female. Secondly, have they been together before? Even if they have, chances are they may at some point start fighting. I'd say there's a higher chance for you, as they are different sizes/ages. Trust me, i've not just read it from a website, I speak from experience. If you really want to keep them together, have a spare viv ready in case of fighting, they will need separating and you must have a viv ready. Also, I wouldn't put any more than 2 in there. My Leo's have 2ft of space each, 3ft is not really big enough for more than 2.
> 
> Hope you take the advice the way it was intended : victory:


Firstly, thank you for the advice, I;m sure it will come in-handy at some point, and it had already crossed my mind that, due to the age difference between them, they might not immediately chum up. 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there's much I can do if they decide they don't like each-other, aside from seperating them; that said, I have neither the money or, more-importantly, the space for a second vivarium, and seperating them by putting one in an Exo-Terra faunarium is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. 

Unless anyone has some further advice, this may be my only recourse should this sort of situation occur. They were bought together, and I really can't ask the shop to take one back, like some tee-shirt that doesn't fit, just because they don't get along - I didn't pay for them, my dad did.

Again, thank you for making me aware of this as a potential problem. I suppose I'll have to have a word with the people at _Reptile Cymru_ about this, see what they can suggest; until then, I'm going to do some in-depth research into a solution that makes best use of the resources I already have. This would be a nightmare scenario, and I can't believe I didn't think of this...

Also, to answer your other question: Yes, I am sure that both are female; Ben (the guy on the counter) checked the geckos in-front of me while we were in the shop when I told them I was specifically looking for females. I coudn't see any pre-anal pores on either gecko.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Firstly, thank you for the advice, I;m sure it will come in-handy at some point, and it had already crossed my mind that, due to the age difference between them, they might not immediately chum up.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there's much I can do if they decide they don't like each-other, aside from seperating them; that said, I have neither the money or, more-importantly, the space for a second vivarium, and seperating them by putting one in an Exo-Terra faunarium is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head.
> 
> ...


Not to worry, it is easy to get excited, especially when it's your first! If they do fight, you would have put one in the exo-terra, and prepare to put one up for sale. Unfortunately the exo wouldn't really be suitabe for an adult long-term, and if you don't have the space for a 2nd viv the kindest thing to do is rehome one. It is nothing like taking back a t-shirt that doesn't fit, they are living creatures and as such can't be expected to live in sub-standard or dangerous conditions because you might be too embarrassed to take them back. Bear in mind, this is only if they fight!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> It is nothing like taking back a t-shirt that doesn't fit, they are living creatures and as such can't be expected to live in sub-standard or dangerous conditions because you might be too embarrassed to take them back.


I didn't mean at all to cause offence with that tee-shirt remark, rather I meant it in exactly the same sense you've said - a gecko is _not_ just a thing like the proverbial tee-shirt, it's very much a living creature, and I'd hate to offer either one of them a home only to have to turn it away. I dread the thought of having to choose which of them to keep. I'm sorry if my remark offended you, or anyone else reading the thread.

Similarly, it was never my intention that keeping one of the geckos in a faunarium would be a permanant solution to the problem, should it arise. A friend of mine told me once that, when he introduced a new Leo to a viv, its current resident had been aggressive at first to the newcomer, so he kept the new gecko in a faunarium in the viv for a day or two, and eventually tensions between the two geckos abated after they got used to each-other, and now they get along well.

I feel now that I should mention - and this is by no means an excuse - that I have Asperger's Syndrome, a communication disorder on the Autistic Spectrum, and I sometimes say things, meaning one thing and, as has happened here, my meaning comes accross as something else and is completely misinterpreted. It happens all the time; I'm nearly 24 years old and by now I'm used to having to clarify what I meant, and otherwise cleaning up the mess of people taking something I've said the wrong way. If at any point something I say doesn't make sense, or seems offensive, please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify what I meant. I swear I won't be offended.


----------



## robbrown (Jul 24, 2011)

:welcome::welcome::welcome: Hey man great to see your getting into it and nowhere better to start than with some leo's they are extremely easy to care for and as is the way with most reptiles the biggest expense is the initial setup cost, I build most of my vivariums so it is much cheaper obviously.

I would suggest getting a wooden viv and avoiding these "starter kits" as they often don't actually have what you need nor at the right price. Shop around and look at some care sheets try this one Leopard gecko care sheet

It always depends on the age of the bugs and you could always breed the crickets etc yourself. I personally feed mine mealworms 9/10 and occasionally put some crickets in, i find that mealworms in a dish are much easier for the geckos to find and get the nourishment they need. as always supplementation and gut loading is the big one. 

to your question i would say prices your looking at
Setup: £50-££££££ maybe even free 
Feeding: £2 (depends on the age but i buy a tub of worms every week for my two geckos and they plump up nicely)
Maintainance: £4 every month or so for a bottle of disinfectant 
Watching your gecko lick its lips and smile: PRICELESS

Best of luck to you dude


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> I didn't mean at all to cause offence with that tee-shirt remark, rather I meant it in exactly the same sense you've said - a gecko is _not_ just a thing like the proverbial tee-shirt, it's very much a living creature, and I'd hate to offer either one of them a home only to have to turn it away. I dread the thought of having to choose which of them to keep. I'm sorry if my remark offended you, or anyone else reading the thread.
> 
> Similarly, it was never my intention that keeping one of the geckos in a faunarium would be a permanant solution to the problem, should it arise. A friend of mine told me once that, when he introduced a new Leo to a viv, its current resident had been aggressive at first to the newcomer, so he kept the new gecko in a faunarium in the viv for a day or two, and eventually tensions between the two geckos abated after they got used to each-other, and now they get along well.
> 
> I feel now that I should mention - and this is by no means an excuse - that I have Asperger's Syndrome, a communication disorder on the Autistic Spectrum, and I sometimes say things, meaning one thing and, as has happened here, my meaning comes accross as something else and is completely misinterpreted. It happens all the time; I'm nearly 24 years old and by now I'm used to having to clarify what I meant, and otherwise cleaning up the mess of people taking something I've said the wrong way. If at any point something I say doesn't make sense, or seems offensive, please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify what I meant. I swear I won't be offended.


 
I know - I read it on your profile. So does my 7 year old daughter, so as said before, please don't explain yourself to me, I already understand  I have tried - probably poorly - to offer advice in a way I think you'll appreciate - no nonsense, if that makes sense. Your viv could possibly be divided into two anyway, with clever use of a divider and shelving etc (to give more room to explore), neither of them have to suffer.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

robbrown said:


> :welcome::welcome::welcome: Hey man great to see your getting into it and nowhere better to start than with some leo's they are extremely easy to care for and as is the way with most reptiles the biggest expense is the initial setup cost, I build most of my vivariums so it is much cheaper obviously.
> 
> I would suggest getting a wooden viv and avoiding these "starter kits" as they often don't actually have what you need nor at the right price. Shop around and look at some care sheets try this one Leopard gecko care sheet
> 
> ...


You forgot calcium and vitamins!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> I know - I read it on your profile. So does my 7 year old daughter, so as said before, please don't explain yourself to me, I already understand  I have tried - probably poorly - to offer advice in a way I think you'll appreciate - no nonsense, if that makes sense. Your viv could possibly be divided into two anyway, with clever use of a divider and shelving etc (to give more room to explore), neither of them have to suffer.


Divider...how would one go about that? As a possible contingency, I mean. Also, there would be the complication of the viv's heat gradient... Hmm...

Would it be worth, does everyone think, asking Reptile Cymru if they could put my two Leos in a shared viv for the few days they'll be there still, and and observe them for aggression? At least then, we could potentially work something out before the Leos are considered completely sold to us, should they notice any aggression. Would this be worth a go?


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Divider...how would one go about that? As a possible contingency, I mean. Also, there would be the complication of the viv's heat gradient... Hmm...
> 
> Would it be worth, does everyone think, asking Reptile Cymru if they could put my two Leos in a shared viv for the few days they'll be there still, and and observe them for aggression? At least then, we could potentially work something out before the Leos are considered completely sold to us, should they notice any aggression. Would this be worth a go?


Possibly, but as most (more experienced than me) keepers will tell you, the fighting may not be immediately evident anyway. It could be weeks or months before you notice anything. Usually one gets bigger than the other gradually; that one is eating all the food. You won't always see them eating either if you leave a dish of mealworms in there. I have heard of people using a divider, if I were to do it, i'd put the heatmat in the centre, leaving the edges of the viv to be the cold sides. And of course, if you add shelves and don't have a light, they can climb away from the heat too.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm considering what a Day/Night Thermostat might do to remove the fiddle of adjusting the viv's thermostat twice a day. Does anyone use one of these with their Leos, and is it worth getting one? Also, what other kinds of 'intelligent' thermostats are there, if any?

I should emphasis that this is just a consideration - I'm only thinking about it.


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

If they do show sign of aggression you can put the 6 month old one in the faunarium for a while depending on the size as i have a 7 month old leopard gecko in a large flat faunarium and he seem to enjoy it as i can fit 2 hide's in and a moist box and a food dish and water dish with a lot of room to spare but i am in the middle of finishing him a 2 foot vivarium up but just need to get glass and runner's and finish varnishing it then it should be finish hopefully before christmas.

But how big is your faunarium?



Scott


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> If they do show sign of aggression you can put the 6 month old one in the faunarium for a while depending on the size as i have a 7 month old leopard gecko in a large flat faunarium and he seem to enjoy it as i can fit 2 hide's in and a moist box and a food dish and water dish with a lot of room to spare but i am in the middle of finishing him a 2 foot vivarium up but just need to get glass and runner's and finish varnishing it then it should be finish hopefully before christmas.
> 
> But how big is your faunarium?
> 
> Scott


I don't have one yet, it's just a back-up plan. Hopefully, fingers crossed, I won't need one. They come home from the shop this saturday, and I guess I'll take it from there.


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> I don't have one yet, it's just a back-up plan. Hopefully, fingers crossed, I won't need one. They come home from the shop this saturday, and I guess I'll take it from there.


Well the large flat faunarium is only £10.99 from one of my local shop's and the measurment's are 18 inch's long 6inch's high and 9 inch's depth not too sure on depth though might be a 12inch's depth.

But anyway good luck on your leopard gecko's and keep us posted on how their doing and put some picture's up when you get them.

Scott


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Well the large flat faunarium is only £10.99 from one of my local shop's and the measurment's are 18 inch's long 6inch's high and 9 inch's depth not too sure on depth though might be a 12inch's depth.
> 
> But anyway good luck on your leopard gecko's and keep us posted on how their doing and put some picture's up when you get them.
> 
> Scott


I'm not sure non-subscribed users are able to use the attachment system on this forum, but I'll certainly see if I can't host the images on my SkyDrive and link to them from here. 

And yes, I will certainly keep everyone posted on how they're doing.


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> I'm not sure non-subscribed users are able to use the attachment system on this forum, but I'll certainly see if I can't host the images on my SkyDrive and link to them from here.
> 
> And yes, I will certainly keep everyone posted on how they're doing.


If you go on photobucket.com you can put picture's their and copy and paste them here


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> If you go on photobucket.com you can put picture's their and copy and paste them here


Okay, Skydrive has recently been updated, which usually means that you have to learn to use the damn thing all over again, but I *think* I've got it figured out...

VIV PICS:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=eb9202ec36742221&resid=EB9202EC36742221!1564&parid=root

Let's see if this works. The link should lead to a folder in my SkyDrive, where there are currently two pics of my viv and its current contents. 

Granted, there's not much in the viv right now, and I hope to replace the lino for something a bit more appealing before my geckos move in this weekend, but it's what I got.

If anyone wants a list of what my setup is currently comprised of, I'll do my best.

Also, I'm beginning to think about names for my geckos. I'm thinking of calling the Blazing Blizzard 'Snowball' (too cliché?), but I got nothin' for the Normal/High Yellow; 'Spot' seems appropriate, but perhaps a bit too-much so... Suggestions, please, if you'd be so kind?


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> Okay, Skydrive has recently been updated, which usually means that you have to learn to use the damn thing all over again, but I *think* I've got it figured out...
> 
> VIV PICS:
> https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=eb9202ec36742221&resid=EB9202EC36742221!1564&parid=root
> ...


Look's all good but have you got a heatmatt, you can put some fake plant's in but not needed but make's it look natural.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Look's all good but have you got a heatmatt, you can put some fake plant's in but not needed but make's it look natural.


If you check the folder again, I just posted two more images of the heat mat, and a close-up of the lable with all the information.

I plan to get some viv decorations this weekend when I pick my geckos up, but I'm not sure exactly what to get in the way of plastic plants... I know that I'll be getting some wood of some sort, probably one of those bamboo roots but not cork bark, to go across the middle of the viv angling from the back-left to the front-right, so it's across the length of the heat gradient. I know I also need a lock and another themometer for the cool end of the viv, and I hope to get those later today, if I can find some cash. Also, just out of curiosity, do I need a hygrometer?


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> If you check the folder again, I just posted two more images of the heat mat, and a close-up of the lable with all the information.
> 
> I plan to get some viv decorations this weekend when I pick my geckos up, but I'm not sure exactly what to get in the way of plastic plants... I know that I'll be getting some wood of some sort, probably one of those bamboo roots but not cork bark, to go across the middle of the viv angling from the back-left to the front-right, so it's across the length of the heat gradient. I know I also need a lock and another themometer for the cool end of the viv, and I hope to get those later today, if I can find some cash. Also, just out of curiosity, do I need a hygrometer?


That all sound's good and i honestly wouldn't worry about a hygrormeter as leopard gecko's are desert species but just make sure they alway's have water though other than that it's all good.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> That all sound's good and i honestly wouldn't worry about a hygrormeter as leopard gecko's are desert species but just make sure they alway's have water though other than that it's all good.


Ah, that's good. Fiver saved there, then. One less thing to worry about.


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> Ah, that's good. Fiver saved there, then. One less thing to worry about.


Yep and to be honest i wouldn't of bought the bulb because they will sleep during the day when it's on or you could get a red one or blue one for viewing at night but it doesn't matter it's up to you on what you choose to do.:no1::no1::no1::no1:


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Yep and to be honest i wouldn't of bought the bulb because they will sleep during the day when it's on or you could get a red one or blue one for viewing at night but it doesn't matter it's up to you on what you choose to do.:no1::no1::no1::no1:


Actually, over the few days I've had the viv, I find the bulb contributes a fair bit to the ambient heat in there, and my room is an attic room where it can sometimes be a bit chilly now the weather's turning, a good two or three degrees below room temperature if the central heating isn't on, and I'm wary that without the bulb, the temp in the viv might be affected by the temp of the room, and I don't want 'em getting cold.

I did mean to get another, red bulb when we pick them up on the weekend, but if it doesn't produce the same ambient heat as my current reflector bulb, I'm not sure I'll bother.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

I would keep the lino, that's what mine are on, easy to clean and no risk of that nasty impaction. Also, I personally don't like plants, plastic or otherwise, for Leos, I think pebbles and rocks are closer to their natural habitat, I find rocks at my local nature park and boil them for half an hour, leave to dry/cool, and pop them in! Free!


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

mstypical said:


> I would keep the lino, that's what mine are on, easy to clean and no risk of that nasty impaction. Also, I personally don't like plants, plastic or otherwise, for Leos, I think pebbles and rocks are closer to their natural habitat, I find rocks at my local nature park and boil them for half an hour, leave to dry/cool, and pop them in! Free!


Yeah my brother used to use rock's with his but he had 1-2 plastic plant's behind their hide's i can't put anything in mine at the moment as mine's in a faunarium and his vivarium should be done by the weekend so will be getting spoilt with his new home.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> I would keep the lino, that's what mine are on, easy to clean and no risk of that nasty impaction. Also, I personally don't like plants, plastic or otherwise, for Leos, I think pebbles and rocks are closer to their natural habitat, I find rocks at my local nature park and boil them for half an hour, leave to dry/cool, and pop them in! Free!





scotty667 said:


> Yeah my brother used to use rock's with his but he had 1-2 plastic plant's behind their hide's i can't put anything in mine at the moment as mine's in a faunarium and his vivarium should be done by the weekend so will be getting spoilt with his new home.


I guess rocks and stones do seem a more natural option, but I think, as Scotty suggested, that one or two small plants in the corners would maybe break up the monotony a bit -- the desert isn't completely devoid of plant life, after all.

Also, picked up some tupperwear for a moist box today; it's not the kind with an air-tight seal, and it's frosted clear plastic. Will this have any real effect on the purpose it serves, or is it pretty much good to go? 

I hope to pick up some sphagnum moss, and one or two other little but important things tomorrow, like a lock and that second thermometer, and maybe a dish for calcium powder. Is there anything else I absolutely _need_ to put in there before my geckos come home, or is it okay to leave off on most of the decor until Saturday when we pick them up?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

*New friends & old loves*

Hey guys!

Well, today's the day - my new room-mates have moved in! 

Only took 10 years, lol...

As I'm sure I've stated before, I'm now the proud owner of a 6-month-old Normal-morph, and a 1.5-year-old Blazing Blizzard. Both are absoultely *stunning*. They don't have names yet, I've been referring to them with placeholder names until I can think of something a bit more appropriate; the Normal I've been calling 'Stoic' because she sat pretty in her tub and never moved a muscle all the way home (a good 40min journey), and the Blazing I've nicknamed 'Digger', because she did nothing but stratch at the paper towel in her tub until we put her in the viv. 

Crap names, I know...though, 'Stoic' might just stick - it's a decent reference to a favourite film of mine; I'll leave it to you clever lot to figure out which one, but I'll do the decent thing and give you a clue:

"Thank you for nothing, you useless reptile."

Oh well, I've rambled enough, I think. Have some pics, neh? Enjoy 'em - I know I'm enjoying watching them having a 'splore. =D

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=eb9202ec36742221&resid=EB9202EC36742221!1564&parid=root


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Well, today's the day - my new room-mates have moved in!
> 
> ...


Stoic - I like, it shame she's a Gecko, not a dragon :whistling2:

Very pleased for you, hope all goes well, and you know where I am : victory:


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Very nice gecko's you have their they don't seem to different in size though but they are very nice, and what film you on about i haven't a clue.LOL.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Very nice gecko's you have their they don't seem to different in size though but they are very nice, and what film you on about i haven't a clue.LOL.


The film is 'How to Train Your Dragon', lol, and thanks.

I got the normal to eat some mealworms earlier, mostly by putting them in front of her. Haven't seen the Blizzard eating yet, but she'll come around in time. Also, a friend suggested that 'Blitz' might be a better name for the Blizzard than 'Digger', and I can only agree - it is a better name, at least. =D


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> *The film is 'How to Train Your Dragon', lol, and thanks.*
> 
> I got the normal to eat some mealworms earlier, mostly by putting them in front of her. Haven't seen the Blizzard eating yet, but she'll come around in time. Also, a friend suggested that 'Blitz' might be a better name for the Blizzard than 'Digger', and I can only agree - it is a better name, at least. =D


I knew that :whistling2:


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Okay, quick question that's open to everyone, 'cause I'm sure everyone has different ways of doing this:

What's the best, or easiest, way of catching crickets and locusts in their tubs? 'Cause I tried for a while earlier, and it's like tryin'a fill a frikkin' sieve with water.

So, any tips? Maybe? Please? =)


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

WOW i remember that film now can't believe i never knew LOL and the best way of catching cricket's is tweezer's or just shake the box and open a corner and drop some in or some people put them in the fridge for 10 minute's this slow's them down.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Okay, just a quick update. 

Blitz and Stoic seem to be settling in okay; I have some calcium-dusted crickets running around in the viv, and both have eaten in the last 24hrs. Also, though I'm not sure which, one of them has been to the bathroom in the last hour or so.

I am a bit concerned, though, as the stool was mostly liquid; all the care guides I have specifically say Leo stools are usually solid. It could be due to stress, what with the move and the new viv, but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled anyway. Is this normal for the first few days?


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Okay, just a quick update.
> 
> Blitz and Stoic seem to be settling in okay; I have some calcium-dusted crickets running around in the viv, and both have eaten in the last 24hrs. Also, though I'm not sure which, one of them has been to the bathroom in the last hour or so.
> 
> I am a bit concerned, though, as the stool was mostly liquid; all the care guides I have specifically say Leo stools are usually solid. It could be due to stress, what with the move and the new viv, but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled anyway. Is this normal for the first few days?


This is a prime example of why it's best to house animals separately if at all possible (and i'm not being rude, as you know from our PM's :notworthy

If one of them is ill, it's going to be difficult to tell which one, without separating them. I've never had a runny poo, and I have Leos of different ages and morphs, and neither has ever been anything but solid, even when recently moved. Keep an eye out for more poops.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> This is a prime example of why it's best to house animals separately if at all possible (and i'm not being rude, as you know from our PM's :notworthy
> If one of them is ill, it's going to be difficult to tell which one, without separating them. I've never had a runny poo, and I have Leos of different ages and morphs, and neither has ever been anything but solid, even when recently moved. Keep an eye out for more poops.


On waking this morning I found another stool, this one a bit more solid, but it was mostly undigested cricket mass, which doesn't encourage me much. Watched them both wandering for a bit, until I noticed Stoic (the normal) leaving a muddy little mess near the cool hide, so I've quarantined her in the faunarium to keep a closer eye on her. She's not happy about it, and is still a bit restless, looking around and trying to climb the walls.

I hope I've done the right thing in quarantining her, as I don't want to make things worse by stressing her unduly, but I think it's better to be safe that sorry. My biggest fear, though, is that diarrhoea is catching, and that they might both have it already – I just haven't seen it from Blitz yet because she hasn't eaten very much. Also, I'm not sure which of them that second stool is from, which is one of the reasons I quarantined Stoic. That said though, Blitz is the more lethargic of the two of them...


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys. Been keeping an eye on the leos today and have noticed that neither of them has moved out from the warm hide all day. As far as I can tell, they both spent most of the night in there as well, despite it being 90ºF on the warm side of the viv -- surely they need to cool down at some point?

I'm probably worrying about pointless and insignificant things now - colour me paranoid, much? - but nevertheless: they've been home for less than three days, and already one of them seems to be unwell, either through stress or a pre-existing illness I wasn't informed of. 

What does all this say about my ability to keep reptiles, eh?

*sigh*


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Hey guys. Been keeping an eye on the leos today and have noticed that neither of them has moved out from the warm hide all day. As far as I can tell, they both spent most of the night in there as well, despite it being 90ºF on the warm side of the viv -- surely they need to cool down at some point?
> 
> I'm probably worrying about pointless and insignificant things now - colour me paranoid, much? - but nevertheless: they've been home for less than three days, and already one of them seems to be unwell, either through stress or a pre-existing illness I wasn't informed of.
> 
> ...


It says nothing detrimental about your abilities and don't for one second think it does! You researched, and you asked advice AND set up your viv, before bringing them home, which is very admirable, more people should be like you! Did you get any history on them from the pet shop? To be honest, they've been together anyway so all quarantine will serve to do now is show you which one is passing runny faeces, and allow you to collect a sample and identify which gecko it came from. There's a chance any illness could already have been passed on. There's a company that will do a fecal via post, I can't remember the name though :blush:


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

glazios said:


> Hey guys. Been keeping an eye on the leos today and have noticed that neither of them has moved out from the warm hide all day. As far as I can tell, they both spent most of the night in there as well, despite it being 90ºF on the warm side of the viv -- surely they need to cool down at some point?
> 
> I'm probably worrying about pointless and insignificant things now - colour me paranoid, much? - but nevertheless: they've been home for less than three days, and already one of them seems to be unwell, either through stress or a pre-existing illness I wasn't informed of.
> 
> ...


Don't put your self down at all i admire what you have done to be honest when i first got 2 corn snake's last year or the year before i hardly did any research and just shoved them in a exo terra far to big and just shoved a heatmatt underneath with no stat at all but i know what i did was wrong and got it all sorted with in 6month's but i still hardly did any research at first but a year later i got myself another corn and got everything right so far and she is still with me a year and 1 month 2 day's later anyway back to the subject at least you have seperated them unlike most people who would just leave them in the same tank together no point putting yourself down and just keep on doing.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Don't put your self down at all i admire what you have done to be honest when i first got 2 corn snake's last year or the year before i hardly did any research and just shoved them in a exo terra far to big and just shoved a heatmatt underneath with no stat at all but i know what i did was wrong and got it all sorted with in 6month's but i still hardly did any research at first but a year later i got myself another corn and got everything right so far and she is still with me a year and 1 month 2 day's later anyway back to the subject at least you have seperated them unlike most people who would just leave them in the same tank together no point putting yourself down and just keep on doing.


They are still in the same tank - I put the faunarium in the viv and separated them that way. Had to, as I've only got the one viv and the one heatmat. Bit worried about Stoic, she's still trying to climb the walls, and we all know that herps don't understand glass walls, much less plastic ones...


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> They are still in the same tank - I put the faunarium in the viv and separated them that way. Had to, as I've only got the one viv and the one heatmat. Bit worried about Stoic, she's still trying to climb the walls, and we all know that herps don't understand glass walls, much less plastic ones...


Cover three sides with paper :2thumb:

I would advise a fecal test on both of them to be honest


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Cover three sides with paper :2thumb:
> 
> I would advise a fecal test on both of them to be honest


Done, but she's still climbing and generally restless. Seems a bit freaked-out, tbh. Worried about her getting overly-stressed.

Fecal test sounds expensive, and as much as I know it's necessary, I'm not sure I've got the money to pay for it.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Done, but she's still climbing and generally restless. Seems a bit freaked-out, tbh. Worried about her getting overly-stressed.
> 
> Fecal test sounds expensive, and as much as I know it's necessary, I'm not sure I've got the money to pay for it.


It's £29 each, If you don't have the money I suggest you return it to the shop for a refund/replacement and tell them why, they need to get it to a vet. Better than staying where it is and possibly getting worse, and you shouldn't have to fork out for expensive vets bills within a week of buying a pet anyway!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> It's £29 each, If you don't have the money I suggest you return it to the shop for a refund/replacement and tell them why, they need to get it to a vet. Better than staying where it is and possibly getting worse, and you shouldn't have to fork out for expensive vets bills within a week of buying a pet anyway!


I know, right? 

For an update, though, I think I can clear Stoic for diarrhoea, at least for the moment, as she ate some mealworms I left in the faunarium specifically, and when she passed the waste, it was solid, so I let her out and put Blitz in instead, so I can be absolutely sure that it wasn't just a one-off and all the fuss has been for nothing.

I hesitate to say this, for the risk of sounding accusatory, but I'm beginnging to wonder if Blitz wasn't ill when I bought her; to assume that Leos *suddenly* get diarrhoea overnight due to stress would be foolish of anyone. I didn't get any kind of history or paperwork for either animal, aside from a livestock reciept, when I bought them.

Blitz is lethargic, and while she does wander around once I turn the light off, she doesn't seem particularly-interested in food or even water, which worries me; I've seen her several times sizing up a mealworm or a cricket, getting right up to it and giving it a lick, before turning around and just walking away. Also, she seems to stay at the warm end of the viv constantly, as-opposed to Stoic, who seems to think I've overhauled the viv layout everytime she pokes her head out and goes for a wander.

Neither of them has bothered much with the moist box, either, but I'm not sure what to make of that.

There's a small vet practice very near my house, and I'll probably go down there tomorrow to enquire as to whether or not they have experience in dealing with reptiles; I'm not entirely convinced they'll be of much help, but with my limited budget, beggers can't be choosers, much as I hate to say it. 

It's either that, or I can make an appointment with Valley Vets in Cardiff - which is an hour's bus journey away at least, and I might not get an appointment until after Christmas. And even if I do, I'm not keen on the idea of taking a sick gecko all that way by bus a few days before Christmas when it's freezing-frikkin'-cold outside.


----------



## robbrown (Jul 24, 2011)

mstypical said:


> You forgot calcium and vitamins!


So i did hahaha okay Nutrobal and Exo calcium with D3 also plain old cac03  about £5 lol


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

*Stoic Sheds! =D*

I just noticed that she's shedding right now! I saw her coming out of the moist box, so I went to grab my care guides, to see if there was anything I needed to do to help, and when I lifted up the warm hide, she was just tearing it off! = 3

I knew she was getting ready to shed, but I thought it was maybe a process that took a while - but instead, I find it's over in a few minutes. 

I took a few snaps - nothing you all haven't seen before, I'm sure, but it's the first time I've seen it myself, and I can't help but think of it as something of a milestone, so thought I should share it. Enjoy!

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.asp...02EC36742221!1576&parid=EB9202EC36742221!1564


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> I know, right?
> 
> For an update, though, I think I can clear Stoic for diarrhoea, at least for the moment, as she ate some mealworms I left in the faunarium specifically, and when she passed the waste, it was solid, so I let her out and put Blitz in instead, so I can be absolutely sure that it wasn't just a one-off and all the fuss has been for nothing.
> 
> ...


I want to say give Blitz a week or so to settle in before you worry about her not eating, but what with the runny poo and the lethargy, I don't know if that is the best advice. I think if it were me, I would have stormed back to the shop by know and been asking some questions. If you can't afford to pay a vet to do a check 'just in case', the best thing all round would be to return her. It's what I would do, I love my reps but I also don't have money to throw down the drain, I would not expect to buy a rep and immediately have to fork out for fecals, especially if I had got it from a shop.

Don't worry about them not bothering with the most hide, i've never seen mine go in there, ever. It's just there if they need it.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey, guys! Hope you all had an awesome Christmas and a fun New Year.

Just a quick update on Blitz and Stoic (yes, the names have stuck ^_^; ), and a question.

Blitz has settled in okay, it seems the diarrhoea was just new-home nervousness, so false alarm there. I've seen them both hanging out in the moist box recently, both are feeding well and are getting along like a house on fire. Stoic often scratches at the glass to come out, now she's realised that there _is_ something on the other side of it, but Blitz is still a little bit shy; I'm hoping I can get her to be a bit more sociable soon.

Now for that question. I've recently noticed a few of the mealworms I have are pupating, and one or two have metamorphosed fully into adult beetles. My question is, is it safe to feed the beetles to my leos, and are the beetles even edible to them? I don't want to risk putting them in the viv until I know for certain that doing so won't hurt my geckos in any way. 

If they're safe, it'd be good to know that mealies don't go to waste as a food source when they become adults.

Thanks either way, guys!


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Hey, guys! Hope you all had an awesome Christmas and a fun New Year.
> 
> Just a quick update on Blitz and Stoic (yes, the names have stuck ^_^; ), and a question.
> 
> ...


Simple answer, there's no harm in trying! As long as they look appropriately sized in proportion to your Leos, of course : victory:


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Simple answer, there's no harm in trying! As long as they look appropriately sized in proportion to your Leos, of course : victory:


My greatest concern is that they might be toxic or poisonus to the Leos as adult beetles, and also that they might bite. I'm being overly-cautious and probably a bit silly, I'm sure, but it doesn't hurt to be too careful.

Anyone have any experience with this life-stage of the mealworm? How long do the beetles live as adults? Has anyone tried this before?

Forewarned, as they say, is forearmed, and knowing is half the battle.


----------



## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

they live quite a while as adult, you can even start a little colony of them in a stacker box to feed your leos, have a look in the feeder section......

if your mealies are pupating into aliens faster than you can feed them to your leos, you can keep them in the fridge to slow them down.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Got another question, guys. This one, though, may seem a little bit unusual, as it's more of a question of environment - _my_ environment, as opposed to my geckos'.

I've noticed over the last few nights that Stoic is scratching at the glass of the viv. She wants to come out, I know this, but I'm also worried that she's getting stressed about the glass being in her way and her not being able to understand it. 

I turn the viv light off when I turn in for the night, but _my_ lights often remain on until I bed down, which is usually during the early hours, and after about 10mins or so of switching off the viv light, Stoic will start scratching at the glass. So, would it be worth changing the colour of my room's white lighting to blue or red bulbs? 

I'm not much concerned about what colour my lights are - it's purely an anti-stress measure for the geckos, but I'm wondering if it'll work, 'cause if it doesn't then there's really not much point to it. Frosting the inside surface of the glass kinda of defeats the whole object of having a glass front in the first place. I've also considered a two-way-mirror effect, but this may just confuse my geckos and stress them even more. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, does anyone know of a programable thermostat for my viv's bulb that I could look up? I struggle to maintain set sleeping patterns, and so I'm not always awake to switch their light on when I probably should. A programable thermostat would mean my geckos get a regular and set number of daylight hours in every 24, and thus a dependable idea of the day-night cycle.

EDIT: I've noticed there are very small insects in the tubs with my mealworms - _very_ small, difficult to make out exactly what they are even with a magnifying glass, but there are_ hundreds of them_, and they are _everywhere_ in the tub. Please tell me these are not mites.


----------



## leopardgecko27045 (Dec 28, 2011)

glazios said:


> Got another question, guys. This one, though, may seem a little bit unusual, as it's more of a question of environment - _my_ environment, as opposed to my geckos'.
> 
> I've noticed over the last few nights that Stoic is scratching at the glass of the viv. She wants to come out, I know this, but I'm also worried that she's getting stressed about the glass being in her way and her not being able to understand it.
> 
> ...


I've just spent like 10 mins reading all 9 pages of this thread. Sounds like your the same as I was a couple of weeks back!

I'm going to be putting a divider down the middle of my viv with my two juvies in because they've started fighting. Fighting doesn't always start immediately so as you have 2 I'd keep an eye out for bite marks and scratches.

As for these bugs in your mealworm tub, I haven't a clue? When I got my micro mealies there was nothing else with them. All I know is theres the black furry sorta bug in with crickets? They eat Cricket poo so if you spot them and wonder what they are. Don't get all paranoid like I did!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

leopardgecko27045 said:


> I've just spent like 10 mins reading all 9 pages of this thread. Sounds like your the same as I was a couple of weeks back!
> 
> I'm going to be putting a divider down the middle of my viv with my two juvies in because they've started fighting. Fighting doesn't always start immediately so as you have 2 I'd keep an eye out for bite marks and scratches.
> 
> As for these bugs in your mealworm tub, I haven't a clue? When I got my micro mealies there was nothing else with them. All I know is theres the black furry sorta bug in with crickets? They eat Cricket poo so if you spot them and wonder what they are. Don't get all paranoid like I did!


I'm not so concerned about my Leos fighting anymore, as they seem to be getting along very well; they are very willing to share the same hide, eat and drink at the same time, and I've even seen them chilling in the moist box together. One would think that any signs of animosity would be visible by now, and there doesn't seem to be any.

On that note, though, if could you please drop me a line once you've completed your divider, so I have some form of installation reference should I ever need to do the same in future, I'd be very greatful.

On the matter the unknown insects, I decided to take no chances of possible paracite infestation, and I promptly threw away the box in-question, including the remaining stock of mealworms therein, before going out and buying new ones, as well as fresh crickets and locusts. I did, however, keep the pupae and beetles that I already have, as I seperated the pupae once I noticed they were changing. Not sure what I'm gonna do with 'em yet, but I'll figure something out.

Also, just like to say I'm glad to run into another Leo newbie. ^_^


----------



## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

I would say around 10-15 pound a week and that is basicly over paying, I like to keep that amount a week aside so atleast then if for any reason prices go up or I have to travle further to get whatever I need I can, I will never spend all that money tho, just a precaution.
Also be prepard to have to spend exspensive vet fees if needed, hopefully it never comes to that but it could possibly happen.


----------



## leopardgecko27045 (Dec 28, 2011)

glazios said:


> I'm not so concerned about my Leos fighting anymore, as they seem to be getting along very well; they are very willing to share the same hide, eat and drink at the same time, and I've even seen them chilling in the moist box together. One would think that any signs of animosity would be visible by now, and there doesn't seem to be any.
> 
> On that note, though, if could you please drop me a line once you've completed your divider, so I have some form of installation reference should I ever need to do the same in future, I'd be very greatful.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'll drop you a pm with how me and my dad have gone around dividing it. Getting rid of them sounds like the best option, I never had problem with mine so I dunno what them lil' things were. But I'd of got rid of them just to stay on the safe side!


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Yup livefood can and does introduce mites into your collection, I had it with my spids a while back with crickets. Best to throw them away; whilt they're not mites of the harmful kind they're certainly annoying.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Okay, guys, I have a question for you all here that is probably the most rediculous thing you've ever heard (really, I'm questioning my own sanity for having the nerve to ask), but, do geckos play? Like, with toys? If I put a little ball in there, would they roll it around and, I dunno, chase it?

I ask (and cannot for the life of me believe I'm doing so) because, really, my sister came to watch my Leos the other day, and asked me, "Why don't they have any toys?" Awkwardness ensued, as I looked at her like she'd suddenly grown another head, while she glared at me like I'm the most cruel s.o.b. under the sun for depriving my geckos of things to play with.

It's a strange question, I know, and most definately a strange situation, but after a few days of mulling it over, I'm genuinely curious about this, now. Do Leopard Geckos know how to play? And if given the opportunity, will they?

Let me know what you all think - of the idea, or my obvious mental instability, whichever you prefers.


----------



## Cluck79 (Jan 11, 2012)

I am also a new owner (Son Christmas present) While my brother did well researching like yourself he spent around the £150 mark on the set-up - I have since spent a further £100 to correct things and to make it both look pretty and to reasure things are right for little Barry. Bugs at Pets at Home are quite cheap 2 pots for £6, which I got through on a week to 10 day cycle. I am new I am nieve so I am still learning. Please listen to these guy's they are the best advice so far.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Cluck79 said:


> I am also a new owner (Son Christmas present) While my brother did well researching like yourself he spent around the £150 mark on the set-up - I have since spent a further £100 to correct things and to make it both look pretty and to reasure things are right for little Barry. Bugs at Pets at Home are quite cheap 2 pots for £6, which I got through on a week to 10 day cycle. I am new I am nieve so I am still learning. Please listen to these guy's they are the best advice so far.


Ah, welcome aboard! ^_^

...

Okay, that was weird... first time I've been able to say that. xD


----------



## Cluck79 (Jan 11, 2012)

*Wet Hides*

Oh and I ask stupid questions everyday - and still people are polite to me !!! 

I am having problems with my wet hide I have laid wet tissue on the bottom folded. Is this correct or should it be like a hamster bed all shedded so it can be tunnelled??


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Cluck79 said:


> Oh and I ask stupid questions everyday - and still people are polite to me !!!
> 
> I am having problems with my wet hide I have laid wet tissue on the bottom folded. Is this correct or should it be like a hamster bed all shedded so it can be tunnelled??


Most people tend to use sphagnum moss, because it lasts longer and is usually available for pretty cheap at most pet shops. It's easy enough to do, just grab a small handful and spread it around in the moistbox until it covers the bottom, damp down with water until wet to the touch, and put it in the viv. Just don't put half the box in like I did, the first time you set it up, lol.

The only problem I have with sphagnum moss is that it's very dusty out of its packaging (if a cardboard box can be called that ¬_¬ ) and can make a bit of a mess, but that can be remedied by keeping it in sandwich bags. One box will probably fill about 3 bags, and if you only use enough to make a carpet that's about 1cm thick when wet, you can get two out of each bag.


----------



## sonofjohnrambo (Jan 9, 2012)

it cost me for 4 leos bout £15 every 2 week's nut the set up cost me bout £100-£150 depending on how you wana keep them


1.1.2 leopard gecko's
1.1.0 bearded dragon's
0.2.0 tokay gecko's
0.0.1 corn snake
1.0.0 chillie rose tarantula
0.0.1 emperor scorpion


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

Glazios - if you want to try toys, you go ahead, just use common sense about things that might hurt them. Mine seem to like things to climb on, and are certainly intrigued when I have a change around! 

About the wet hide, I use sphagnum moss, can re-dampen it a good few times usually, unless your gecko chooses to make the damp hide a loo, as one of mine has! I used loo roll just last week when I ran out of moss, won't do it again, useless in my opinion. Dried out quickly and left bits on my gecko.


----------



## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Cluck79 said:


> I am also a new owner (Son Christmas present) While my brother did well researching like yourself he spent around the £150 mark on the set-up - I have since spent a further £100 to correct things and to make it both look pretty and to reasure things are right for little Barry. Bugs at Pets at Home are quite cheap 2 pots for £6, which I got through on a week to 10 day cycle. I am new I am nieve so I am still learning. Please listen to these guy's they are the best advice so far.


Down here it's 3 pot's for £6.


----------



## leopardgecko27045 (Dec 28, 2011)

scotty667 said:


> Down here it's 3 pot's for £6.


Yeah I get 3 pots for £6 here too


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Cluck79 said:


> Bugs at Pets at Home are quite cheap 2 pots for £6, which I got through on a week to 10 day cycle.





scotty667 said:


> Down here it's 3 pot's for £6.


 


leopardgecko27045 said:


> Yeah I get 3 pots for £6 here too


 
Oh, look at that -- another reason to never buy anything from Pets at Home! We've got quite a few of those now.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Oh, look at that -- another reason to never buy anything from Pets at Home! We've got quite a few of those now.


The Pets at Home near me has so far been fantastic - don't think all stores deserve the bad name a few seem to have tarred them all with!

I also get 3 for £6, surely the guy who said 2 has either made a mistake or it's a typo, no-one in their right mind would pay £6 for 2 pots of waxworms/mealies/whatever!


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> The Pets at Home near me has so far been fantastic - don't think all stores deserve the bad name a few seem to have tarred them all with!
> 
> I also get 3 for £6, surely the guy who said 2 has either made a mistake or it's a typo, no-one in their right mind would pay £6 for 2 pots of waxworms/mealies/whatever!


Was in the Pets at Home down in Cardiff Retail Park yesterday, checking out their stock; the animals in general were overpriced, overcrowded and under-cared-for. Some of the leos in one tank were literally scabby, as though they'd been fighting each-other; one of them was missing a leg, and another was actually *blind*. 

Worse still, the guy I spoke to about Leos had no idea what he was talking about - it took a me a second to realise that the care advice he was giving me was actually for Bearded Dragons. How the hell can you confuse a Leo with a Beardy?!

I mentioned that I keep my Leos on lino; he said that I should be keeping them on sand, because apparently "it's healthier for them". I told them that wasn't a good idea because of the risk of impaction in hatchlings and younger animals - and he laughed and said impaction is a myth! I asked him which option was healthier for leos, mealworms or waxworms, and he said waxworms were the best because they have 'a higher nutritional value'.

The man was just making stuff as he went to make himself sound like he knew it all. Everything he said was either complete nonsense or an outright fabrication of the facts. I've never heard so much complete B.S. from shop staff before in my life. He had absolutely no idea how to care for a Leopard Gecko, and the Beardy advice he was spouting wasn't too clever either.


----------



## sonofjohnrambo (Jan 9, 2012)

i hate my one for to reason's putting my shop out of buisness and there live food's are practicly dead


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

glazios said:


> Was in the Pets at Home down in Cardiff Retail Park yesterday, checking out their stock; the animals in general were overpriced, overcrowded and under-cared-for. Some of the leos in one tank were literally scabby, as though they'd been fighting each-other; one of them was missing a leg, and another was actually *blind*.
> 
> Worse still, the guy I spoke to about Leos had no idea what he was talking about - it took a me a second to realise that the care advice he was giving me was actually for Bearded Dragons. How the hell can you confuse a Leo with a Beardy?!
> 
> ...


The one near me has knowledgable staff as far as I can tell, the livefoods are actually alive, and the frozen food is very well priced for a shop. The animals are bright-eyed, alert and healthy. Yes, the animals are expensive, but for that price you get more rights that if you met Joe Average from the forums at a petrol station and parted with some cash for an animal.


----------



## Cluck79 (Jan 11, 2012)

My Pets at Home (Oxford) have also been brilliant. Even when i have been in and asked for trained staff, they have been totally honest if they don't know and read through leaflets with me. I have had no problems, although their stock of live foods have let me down on a couple of occasions. Hopefully Cardiff is an isolated store.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Alright guys, here with another query. Blitzy's looking a bit thin to my eye, and I can't be 100% sure that she's eating enough, so I weighed both her and Stoick to compare them;

Blitz: 1.5yrs - 2yrs old; 60g / 2.10oz
Stoick: 6mths – 1yr old; 73g / 2.55oz
I'm not sure that Blitz is very well. She seems lethargic, spending lots of time hiding in the moist box, and I don't often see her on the warm side of the viv at night. That said, Stoick spends much more time chasing crickets, whereas Blitz will snap one up if it happens to wander by slowly enough.

I'm probably just being a paranoid worry-wart – really, I hope it's just that - but I'd like to be sure, to be on the safe side. I'll weigh them both again in a few days, and if Blitz has lost any more weight, I'll be booking an appointment at Valley Vets.

What do you guys consider a healthy weight for your leo geckos? Is there a standard age-to-weight table somewhere I can refer to?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey, guys.

Trying to come up with ways to let my Leos out of the viv for a wander/some exercise without them getting loose. I was thinking about maybe getting them a hamster ball, see how they take to it, but I'm not sure.

The point is that they can wander around the room in the ball without getting lost under the bed or behind cupboards; they love to come out, and to run, but as-is, they've only ever been on the bed, and they both like to try their luck in getting to the floor. I have no other pets, nothing that could chase the ball or knock it around.

What do you guys think - has anyone ever tried, or heard of anyone trying this? Do you think I should give it a go?


----------



## Mcadam1222 (May 17, 2012)

glazios said:


> Hey, guys.
> 
> Trying to come up with ways to let my Leos out of the viv for a wander/some exercise without them getting loose. I was thinking about maybe getting them a hamster ball, see how they take to it, but I'm not sure.
> 
> ...


LOL, I wouldn't try that, If you spend a lot of time on your leo it will come out and sit with you. My female will sit out with me on my bed when I am watching the tv or cleaning the cages and will not try to run away.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey guys. Got another question. I did a quick search of the Newbie forum and got no joy, so I'll throw it up here so you knowledgeable bunch can pick over it. =P

Okay, so I have a problem with the heat gradient in my Leo viv. I recently put temp probes into the hides, and have discovered that the temp in the cool hide is a rather worrying 90ºF/32ºC during the day. _The Leopard Gecko Manual_ and various care sheets recommend that the cool side be 80ºF/26ºC at the warmest during the day, so clearly I'm doing something wrong here, but I can't seem to figure out what. But in my opinion, it's to do with the in-tank lighting.

I've currently got a 60watt R80 Diffused Reflector bulb going in there, mainly because that's the bulb type that was provided with the setup by Reptile Cymru, and I assume they know what they're doing (pitfall of many a noob, I know ¬_¬). But the problem, I think, is that this big-aft bulb is overheating the vivarium. 

Summer last year was a nightmare, because I had to scramble to find ways to actively cool the vivarium down during daylight hours, because it was readily heating up to almost 120ºF/48ºC in there with the sun beating down on the roof (my room and viv are in the attic). I really don't want to have to subject myself or my geckos to that nonsense again this year.

People say, "Oh, just turn the bulb off," but they're Leos and they need an idea of the light cycle to tailor their sleeping habits, so I don't want to confuse and stress them by arbitrarily cutting off their light source like that.

So my question is this: Would it negatively-affect my geckos if I put a smaller/less-powerful bulb in there? Do they really need the 60watt Reflector, or can I justify using a much-less powerful bulb that produces less heat? The point of having a reflector is that it produces heat in the first place, I know, but what if it produces _too much_ heat?

If they don't need all that in there, how low should I go in the wattage? A 40watt reflector seems more reasonable than a 60watt to me, but I don't know what kinds of temperatures that will produce - still too much? Not enough? 

Thanks in-advance for the advice, guys. ^_^


----------



## tommivercetti (Apr 30, 2011)

When I use lights on my Leo's I use 15w bulbs in a 2 foot viv, any more and it's too warm. I have 8 vivs with Leo's in at the mo and none of them are on lights only heat mats. They are all happy and healthy with fat tails


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

tommivercetti said:


> When I use lights on my Leo's I use 15w bulbs in a 2 foot viv, anymore and it's too warm. I have 8 vivs with Leo's in at the mo and none of them are on lights only heat mats. They are all happy and healthy with fat tails


I agree. It's nigh on impossible to have a decent gradient with a bulb in a 2ft viv, which a lot of leos live in. Bulbs raise the ambient temps too much : victory:


----------



## mscongeniality (Apr 15, 2008)

I put my Uro in a rat ball so he can run around the house. My Leos didn't seem to take to it, not to say yours won't. One of my Leos likes to run back and forth on the window ledge chasing the cars outside. He's not the brightest bulb in the box but we love him. His daughter is very active and likes to leap randomly, legs spread out like she's emulating some sort of flying squirrel. Other times she'll sit and have her back rubbed, arching it like a little cat. I think it all depends on the personality of your Leos. Some will curl up beside you, others are a bit more intrepid.


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Firstly, just to refresh everyone's memory, my Leos' viv is a wooden 3ft (36"L x 18"W x 18"D), with the following kit:


Microclimate Heat Mat (406x305mm, [email protected])
Microclimate MiniStat 100 Thermostat
Bulb - 60watt R80 Diffused Reflector
x2 Exo Terra Digital Thermometer
Now to answer everyone's comments:



tommivercetti said:


> When I use lights on my Leo's I use 15w bulbs in a 2 foot viv, any more and it's too warm. I have 8 vivs with Leo's in at the mo and none of them are on lights only heat mats. They are all happy and healthy with fat tails


15w, you say? Hmm...seems I'm way over-doing it, then. Might have to have a bit of an experiment with different wattages, and see what works best.



mstypical said:


> I agree. It's nigh on impossible to have a decent gradient with a bulb in a 2ft viv, which a lot of leos live in. Bulbs raise the ambient temps too much : victory:


Hmm. Worth a think about. I only have one window in my attic, though, and the viv sits next to it with its back to the light, and though I have my room lights on quite a bit, it doesn't do much for them, so I do need to have a bulb in there for them to have some light.



mscongeniality said:


> I put my Uro in a rat ball so he can run around the house. My Leos didn't seem to take to it, not to say yours won't. One of my Leos likes to run back and forth on the window ledge chasing the cars outside. He's not the brightest bulb in the box but we love him. His daughter is very active and likes to leap randomly, legs spread out like she's emulating some sort of flying squirrel. Other times she'll sit and have her back rubbed, arching it like a little cat. I think it all depends on the personality of your Leos. Some will curl up beside you, others are a bit more intrepid.


I tried the ball, and like yours, they didn't much take to it. Blitz would have a go for a bit, but would get bored with it and start scratching to be let out after a bit, while Stoick just didn't seem to get it, and would spin around looking for a way out, then start scratching.

Stoick does like to jump, too, and is the most active of them both and loves to explore; Blitz is a bit more quiet, and will sit tentatively with me for a bit, usually on my shoulder but sometimes behind my neck, or on my head if she can get up there, lol.

Thanks again for the advice, guys.


----------



## mstypical (Feb 16, 2011)

> Hmm. Worth a think about. I only have one window in my attic, though, and the viv sits next to it with its back to the light, and though I have my room lights on quite a bit, it doesn't do much for them, so I do need to have a bulb in there for them to have some light.


Maybe put a lamp in the attic, on a timer, instead of inside the viv?


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

mstypical said:


> Maybe put a lamp in the attic, on a timer, instead of inside the viv?


Can't see the layout of my bedroom (the attic) accommodating that. Also, my lighting would interfere with any effect it would have, surely? Hmm. =/


----------



## glazios (Oct 2, 2011)

Also, not sure if I might have looked into this on here before, but I'm looking for a pulse-proportional thermostat, but one with an LCD display, rather than a manual-adjustment system like the MicroClimate 100 has; I find that I can't accurately adjust the temperature of the heat mat with the MC100, as I can't see exactly what temp I'm *setting* the mat to.

Does anyone know of a pulse-proportional mat stat that uses a digital display, and isn't ridiculously-overpriced?


----------

