# british big cats?



## mattsdragons

do people think there are any and is there any prof of them?


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## hillzi

I saw a docu on these last week, I think the media like to hype it up, like everything.

The footage looks pretty real though, and some kid got attacked by a big cat.

Who knows..
Like the story of a wild boar in my local woods..


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## SWMorelia

We have got wild boar in our forest and they are a pain.....
And the kid that was allegedly attacked in Wales.... Well a big cat wouldn't leave a little scratch like that.......


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## spicewwfc

The government admitted last year that there is a possibility that there is a breeding population of big cats roaming the British countryside. Of course that is all they can say without causing mass panic. 
Jaguars, Pumas, and Leopards are notoriously difficult to track, and they can easily navigate the country on old abandoned railway lines without ever coming into contact with people.
Have a look at the evidence and decide for yourself 
British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website


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## capester

My brother says he has seen one in Derbyshire, he was with his son at the time (who's 20 odd) and they both ay they saw it in the early hours near Elvaston Castle Country Park. Neither of them are the kind to say something like that for attention etc and don't bring it up in conversation or anything that hoaxers/ mentally ill/ immature people would. Until then I had been skeptical but now I think it is a distinct possibility and keep an open mind. About a year or two ago (after my brothers sighting) there was a photo in the local paper (Derby Evening Telegraph) that a couple living in the sticks about 10 miles from Elvaston took. It was a fairly convincing picture of a big cat taking food from the bird table at night. Also around this area have been "mysterious cattle/ sheep deaths". Also there was a wildlife park near Matlock called Riber castle which was run down and eventually closed. They had a lot of lynx there and was generally shabby (not saying the animals weren't cared for because they were) and I have heard that animals had escaped in the past. Also there were reports of deliberate releases by animal rights activists from Riber. All of this coupled together says to me that it is more than likely there are big cats out there. 
p.s. I am not an anorak and haven't done any digging! I'm sure there would be much more info out there if I dug a little deeper....


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## emmipez1989

a friend of mine is tracking a panther near to her house, she lives in rutland, apparently there has been a good amount of sightings around there and plenty of evidence such as some kind of deer having its spine clean bit in two and the bones licked clean white.


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## xvickyx

Spooky..... wouldn't know what to do if I saw one.... run I guess :lol2:


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## capester

Good luck with that! They ain't slow! The best thing would be to make sure it knew you were there and that you had seen it, make yourself look big and back away slowly (although I'd probably curl up into a ball and gently weep). I'm sure they would avoid people like the plague anyway!


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## spicewwfc

xvickyx said:


> Spooky..... wouldn't know what to do if I saw one.... run I guess :lol2:


Lol. Then you would soon be dead, running is the absolute worst thing you could do, it stimulates hunting instincts and the cat would without doubt run you down and kill you. If you stand your ground or even charge a predator it will usually flee, unless it is a mother with cubs, then you should back away slowly and not take your eyes off the animal until you are well out of sight.
Im sure you will remember this next time you encounter a lion. :lol2:


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## wohic

I have seen one at a distance of about 3 meters, so yes they are about, it croseed the road in front of our car trotted off down a lane and even looked back at us as we stared in shock lol.
Also years ago we had several sheep attacked, the vet that examined them said that what ever had killed them had jumped on there backs and then bitten the throat........ no heel bites and a dog would tend to go in from the side and take the throat, they were so concerned at the time that the army came and searched the woodland surrounding our land.


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## spicewwfc

wohic said:


> I have seen one at a distance of about 3 meters, so yes they are about, it croseed the road in front of our car trotted off down a lane and even looked back at us as we stared in shock lol.
> Also years ago we had several sheep attacked, the vet that examined them said that what ever had killed them had jumped on there backs and then bitten the throat........ no heel bites and a dog would tend to go in from the side and take the throat, they were so concerned at the time that the army came and searched the woodland surrounding our land.


Hey, a first hand account I wasn't expecting that.
How big was the cat you saw?
There have been a few sightings and pad prints found on cannock chase near me recently.
A gamekeeper i know also told me he saw one when he was tending his pheasants at dusk a few years back. 
That would have been a scary situation to find yourself in.


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## wohic

spicewwfc said:


> Hey, a first hand account I wasn't expecting that.
> How big was the cat you saw?
> There have been a few sightings and pad prints found on cannock chase near me recently.
> A gamekeeper i know also told me he saw one when he was tending his pheasants at dusk a few years back.
> That would have been a scary situation to find yourself in.


Hi. 
Not Huge, perhaps 24" at the shoulder but long must have been 6ft long with tail.
I reported the findings to a british big cats website at the time as it was such a possitive sighting.


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## vawn

we have a possible breeder/ing group in our area, being followed by newquay zoo, a smallish cougery linx kinda cat i think or puma n afew of them too, casts have been taken n measured of paw marks, this is around the coastal pootpath of west cornwall, sentin, animal deaths, dens, and the animals stray further into the gorse land where most of our housin estates start, i have seen the pumaish one for a couple hundred yards at night it was stood under a lamp post but i still just thought it was a big dog n kept walkin till i saw it's tail then ears n i stopped to gasp n it vanished over a hedge. ther has been a black large cat (cousin to the 'beast of bodmin') killed n brought in in the wales area where alot of the sitings of a large big cat have been recorded. our local cat sightings where recorded weekly in out local paper, the cornishman penzance area but over the last couple of years with our weather becoming colder and wetter there have been much less sightings

something to do with the start of the dwa act in the 70's when people kept them as pets then instead of gettin a licence, turned them out into the countryside


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## tokay

There are quite a few people i know who kept big cats (manily pumas) in the 70's.
Alot of these cats were released on the moors near dartmoor and exmoor and also up country too and in the highlands when the DWAA came in. so its quite possible they bred and there offspring are still roaming around today.
personally i wouldnt bet against there being big cats out there


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## darloLee

i would love too see a healthy population of big cats in britain but tbh if the population grew to much i think they would cause concern for farmers and other livestock keepers not to mention people walking out in the country, thus they would probably end being trapped, killed etc 
this is just my personal opinion i doubt big cat numbers will ever increase on a large scale too cause panic


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## vawn

unless you bump into one!


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## slippery42

Yet another thread on the mythical british big cats. 

Crap Videos, piss poor photographs, kids full of shit, no proof end of story!


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## spicewwfc

slippery42 said:


> Yet another thread on the mythical british big cats.
> 
> Crap Videos, piss poor photographs, kids full of shit, no proof end of story!


Thats a very closed minded view you have there, maybe you should actually look at the physical evidence, or talk to some farmers/gamekeepers in the west country and Wales before you condemn something that you clearly know nothing about.

Also why are you using bad language on an open part of the forum? 
This isn't 18+


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## wohic

slippery42 said:


> Yet another thread on the mythical british big cats.
> 
> Crap Videos, piss poor photographs, kids full of shit, no proof end of story!


 
Kids full of shit ? I was 38 when I saw that cat :whistling2:


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## vawn

yeah n i'm 33, i saw it 3 years ago, where's the link into the health n breadin ratios that newquay zoo has?..


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## vawn

big, cat


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## slippery42

spicewwfc said:


> Thats a very closed minded view you have there, maybe you should actually look at the physical evidence, or talk to some farmers/gamekeepers in the west country and Wales before you condemn something that you clearly know nothing about.
> 
> Also why are you using bad language on an open part of the forum?
> This isn't 18+


I may not be an expert but I am a wildlife specialist and photographer. I've seen all the so called evidence and avidly watched every program that has been on about so called wildcats and carefully looked at as many photographs as I can find on the subject.

I've seen the crank sites dedicated to wildcats and seen the results of experts brought into the uk to try and track them!

There is no doubt that cats were released back in the 70's but the assumption that they are still out there or breeding is laughable.

Personally I'd love it if there were, eat a few people, liven up the countryside but sorry its not on but I am far having a closed mind.

As for the language I'm sorry it offends you but I an 100% sure that any youngster old enough to be going through the forum has come across things much worse than low level swearing.

The thread on big cats has been done to death on the DWA section.


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## wohic

slippery42 said:


> I may not be an expert but I am a wildlife specialist and photographer. I've seen all the so called evidence and avidly watched every program that has been on about so called wildcats and carefully looked at as many photographs as I can find on the subject.
> 
> I've seen the crank sites dedicated to wildcats and seen the results of experts brought into the uk to try and track them!
> 
> There is no doubt that cats were released back in the 70's but the assumption that they are still out there or breeding is laughable.
> 
> Personally I'd love it if there were, eat a few people, liven up the countryside but sorry its not on but I am far having a closed mind.
> 
> As for the language I'm sorry it offends you but I an 100% sure that any youngster old enough to be going through the forum has come across things much worse than low level swearing.
> 
> The thread on big cats has been done to death on the DWA section.


but myself and my husband have seen one at close quarters, why would I lie ?


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## spicewwfc

slippery42 said:


> I may not be an expert but I am a wildlife specialist and photographer. I've seen all the so called evidence and avidly watched every program that has been on about so called wildcats and carefully looked at as many photographs as I can find on the subject.
> 
> I've seen the crank sites dedicated to wildcats and seen the results of experts brought into the uk to try and track them!
> 
> There is no doubt that cats were released back in the 70's but the assumption that they are still out there or breeding is laughable.
> 
> Personally I'd love it if there were, eat a few people, liven up the countryside but sorry its not on but I am far having a closed mind.
> 
> As for the language I'm sorry it offends you but I an 100% sure that any youngster old enough to be going through the forum has come across things much worse than low level swearing.
> 
> The thread on big cats has been done to death on the DWA section.


If you think its laughable that a wild animal would do anything to find a mate and survive then you are clearly working in the wrong field.
If say 100 panthers/jaguars were released in the 70's do you not think that a few of these would find each other and reproduce? These animals can cover 20miles in a single night. 
Whats going to cause these animals to die off? The cold? No they are mammals they can cope with the cold.
Starvation? No, there are enough rabbits in the British countryside to sustain a population of 1000's.
Predation? No, we dont have anything big enough to hunt them.

I didnt mean video's and programmes, I said physical evidence, like pad prints, and sheep carcasses that were killed by asphyxiation. Something that dogs and foxes don't do.
Eye witness testimony from people who know the land, like gamekeepers, farmers, and wildlife wardens.
Ask any big game hunter how difficult it is to track a big cat and he will tell you it is near impossible.
Thats why we find very little evidence.


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## LUCYS

if there was cats out there they would have found one by now..if a man can track a cat across africa im sure someone would be able to track one in the country..professional trackers have tried to find them but with no luck,i know there elusive,but not that elusive..imagine the money to be made from that news story..im sorry but theres no big cats out there,u'll just have to let it go like you did with the boogeyman..: victory:


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## Breadrun

There are definately big cats in the UK, the only reason there isnt alot of proof is because the numbers are so low, you just have to look at certain animals thought to be extinct for years only for some scientist to discover some

I have seen a puma and it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen, when I started working for bernard mathews turkey farm I ws told by a few security guards that every now and then they would see a big cat crossing the border of the farm, I've always wanted to believe in big cats but have always been sceptical, after 4 months on the job I was amazed when I saw it, its bone structure was like nothing i had seen before and its fur was really shiny and looked like velvet, it wasnt as big as i would have thought but when discussing big cats people tend to think lion/tiger size when actually things like pumas, lynxs etc are smaller,

It makes me wonder how there are some still alive but i do doubt there is a pair who have bred because they are so far and few between, I'n my 22years of excistence I have read the stories in the newspaper about bodmin, sussex, hertfordshire and east anglia and if all of those accounts were true then it would prove that they could be in close proximity to find a mate


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## vawn

i wrote to newquay zoo n the researcher isn't there any more n gave me an out of date link
Big Cats In Britain


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## elchopchop

Breadrun said:


> There are definately big cats in the UK, the only reason there isnt alot of proof is because the numbers are so low, you just have to look at certain animals thought to be extinct for years only for some scientist to discover some
> 
> I have seen a puma and it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen, when I started working for bernard mathews turkey farm I ws told by a few security guards that every now and then they would see a big cat crossing the border of the farm, I've always wanted to believe in big cats but have always been sceptical, after 4 months on the job I was amazed when I saw it, its bone structure was like nothing i had seen before and its fur was really shiny and looked like velvet, it wasnt as big as i would have thought but when discussing big cats people tend to think lion/tiger size when actually things like pumas, lynxs etc are smaller,
> 
> It makes me wonder how there are some still alive but i do doubt there is a pair who have bred because they are so far and few between, I'n my 22years of excistence I have read the stories in the newspaper about bodmin, sussex, hertfordshire and east anglia and if all of those accounts were true then it would prove that they could be in close proximity to find a mate


i'm with breadrun on this one, people aren't finding evidence because these cats are low in numbers - its true they are elusive and its also true that professional hunters can track them across the plains in africa etc but lets not forget that in their native countrys, numbers are going to be alot higher and therefore the hunters are going to have a better start at tracking them. Another issue i'm curious of is the way that these big cats may have adapted to survive in this country. Having seen one myself I KNOW that they are out there, when I had my sighting I was basically lucky enough to be looking in the right place at the right time. The cat had already seen me and retreated rather speedily a few seconds later. I think the issue of natural predators to these cats is answered right there. Maybe they are so rarely seen because they have adapted the instinct to steer well clear of man and urban habitats which is why we see so little of them?


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## Zoo-Man

BIg cats have such vast territories that will stretch over a couple of counties. Big cats patrol their territories constantly. This is why there are not often sightings in the same spot very often. 

Also, I believe that most of the sightings of large black cats are melanistic leopards. Leopards are notoriously difficult to track & are very elusive. They can hide themselves away easily & will avoid confrontation at all costs. Leopards also take their kills up into trees, & there have been many findings of deer, sheep & other prey items in trees.


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## vawn

most of our local sightings are supposed to be a kind of puma lynx cross accordin to the research done, hiding n havin huge territories but stickin to their fave places, so west penwith is no prob for a short ish cat in tallish scrub in what is summat like a 40sq mile patch, stoppin in at the skips an other kindsa rummage on the edge of little hamlets at certain times of the year. ther have been melanistic pumas too further up the road


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## Breadrun

Also its true what you say about Africa, you have to think of the kind of terrain Africa has, it is mostly flat with patches of shrubbery and tree's which means if a tracker doesnt see a big cat under a tree in some shade then instead he can look for footprints - but in england think of how much leaves, grass, bushes etc there are, a wild big cat could spend days a couple of feet away from a human without it ever seeing them because they are so elusive, they can hear miles away and as we know from domestic cats they can be very secretive

I think its right about the majority being leopards because they were the most popular in the 60s due to their shorter size (along with puma's, lynxs etc)




elchopchop said:


> i'm with breadrun on this one, people aren't finding evidence because these cats are low in numbers - its true they are elusive and its also true that professional hunters can track them across the plains in africa etc but lets not forget that in their native countrys, numbers are going to be alot higher and therefore the hunters are going to have a better start at tracking them. Another issue i'm curious of is the way that these big cats may have adapted to survive in this country. Having seen one myself I KNOW that they are out there, when I had my sighting I was basically lucky enough to be looking in the right place at the right time. The cat had already seen me and retreated rather speedily a few seconds later. I think the issue of natural predators to these cats is answered right there. Maybe they are so rarely seen because they have adapted the instinct to steer well clear of man and urban habitats which is why we see so little of them?


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## spicewwfc

Breadrun;5549405 I think its right about the majority being leopards because they were the most popular in the 60s due to their shorter size (along with puma's said:


> Leopards are the 3rd largest big cat in the world. The most popular cats kept in private collections was the lynx and Puma along with Jaguar/Panther.
> Leopard's are very dangerous, they cause more human deaths in India and Africa than Lions and Tigers put together.
> You are absolutely right about the terrain in this country tracking is much easier in dry scrub land than wet forest.
> But even in their native habitats it is near impossible to track a solitary big cat without the aid of hounds, and even then its hit and miss.
> 
> Also melanistic Leopards are very rare indeed its much more common in jaguars that's why panthers were considered their own species for such a long time.
> I think the prime candidates are jaguars/panthers, pumas and lynx's I would be very surprised If there are wild Leopards roaming the countryside. If they are its only a matter of time until someone is killed.


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## Reptiledan

YouTube - Big cat captured on video

Tbh i think it could be a dog...


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## vawn

the report mentioned it had been examined n thought to not be domestic cat or dog though it is really hard to tell from that vid
BBC News | UK | 'Beast of Bodmin' captured on video


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## vawn

this one is up to date
British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website


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## capester

that vid looks like a dog to me. The way it moves and everything. Just a black lab or something similar.


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## gaz0123

spicewwfc said:


> The government admitted last year that there is a possibility that there is a breeding population of big cats roaming the British countryside. Of course that is all they can say without causing mass panic.
> Jaguars, Pumas, and Leopards are notoriously difficult to track, and they can easily navigate the country on old abandoned railway lines without ever coming into contact with people.
> Have a look at the evidence and decide for yourself
> British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website


there is ment to be apuma here in colchester made havoc in a place called whivenhoe adn i saw it here once years ago but no one belives me,

even a cop in whivenhoe say it


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## capester

This one looks more likely to be genuine to me. Its definately feline by the way it moves and I reckon its bigger than a household moggy. Crap camera work again but thats because he had to zoom so far. The story that's with it seems fairly believable too.


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## Dan

spicewwfc said:


> Also melanistic Leopards are very rare indeed its much more common in jaguars that's why panthers were considered their own species for such a long time.


This paragraph tells everyone, everything you know about the subject :whistling2:

Okie dokie, melanistic leopards are common in captivity - just as much as melanistic jaguars, probably more so.

Panthers ARE a seperate species to both jaguars and leopards. The ONLY source to state otherwise is the disney movie "The Junglebook".
Panthers are more commonly known as mountain lions, puma, cougars or any of the 35 other common names. That species has more common names than any other. The scientific name for the species is Puma concolor.
There are no captive melanistic cougars. 

I have no doubt that "Wohic" and others can tell me they have seen a big cat and not lie to me. I also have no doubt in my mind that they are wrong.
A good friend of mine travelled from the USA to the UK and did a documentary for the animal planet channel on this subject and found no evidence at all - despite actually wanting to.

For those that don't know me, i have worked with all the big cats listed as possibles in this thread. The friend that came to do the documentary is Scott Lope, he has also done several other documentary style programs in Africa and the USA involving big cats.


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## kato

spicewwfc said:


> Hey, a first hand account I wasn't expecting that.
> How big was the cat you saw?
> There have been a few sightings and pad prints found on cannock chase near me recently.
> A gamekeeper i know also told me he saw one when he was tending his pheasants at dusk a few years back.
> That would have been a scary situation to find yourself in.


I am the long suffering husband of Wohic and I was driving the car. I saw the Cat from a distance at first and pointed it out to Julia. I stopped the car right next to it apart from it was on one side of the road and we were on the other. It seemed completely not bothered with us at all. It was very close to us for over a minute and then it just went on it's way. The thing which shocked me the most was that it was right on the edge of Sherborne very close to where people live, but having said that there is a railway track there which it headed towards before it went of sight.



slippery42 said:


> Yet another thread on the mythical british big cats.
> 
> Crap Videos, piss poor photographs, kids full of shit, no proof end of story!


Sorry, but you have a very sad attitude which makes you sound like a bit of a negative Nelly and a loser. I'm no kid and I know what I saw.



wohic said:


> Kids full of shit ? I was 38 when I saw that cat :whistling2:


38 :lol2:



slippery42 said:


> The thread on big cats has been done to death on the DWA section.


So why can it not be discussed again? Because you say so? Of course it can be discussed, just because you have not been fortunate enough to see one does not mean that they do not exist. Some people have encountered big cats and you come across like you are calling them liars. As far as I am concerned everyone has the freedom of speach, just because you don't like it -TOUGH!!!


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## kato

Dan said:


> This paragraph tells everyone, everything you know about the subject :whistling2:
> 
> Okie dokie, melanistic leopards are common in captivity - just as much as melanistic jaguars, probably more so.
> 
> Panthers ARE a seperate species to both jaguars and leopards. The ONLY source to state otherwise is the disney movie "The Junglebook".
> Panthers are more commonly known as mountain lions, puma, cougars or any of the 35 other common names. That species has more common names than any other. The scientific name for the species is Puma concolor.
> There are no captive melanistic cougars.
> 
> I have no doubt that "Wohic" and others can tell me they have seen a big cat and not lie to me. I also have no doubt in my mind that they are wrong.
> A good friend of mine travelled from the USA to the UK and did a documentary for the animal planet channel on this subject and found no evidence at all - despite actually wanting to.
> 
> For those that don't know me, i have worked with all the big cats listed as possibles in this thread. The friend that came to do the documentary is Scott Lope, he has also done several other documentary style programs in Africa and the USA involving big cats.


I don't think Wohic is wrong, I was sat next to her. I have also travelled all over the World and seen lots of big Cats so I know what I saw.

In actual fact a few months prior to this sighting of ours I was driving a few miles away but within easy reach of a Big Cat and I saw a Big Cat with a Youngster. But I was alone and never told anyone as they would think that I am nuts. The area that these cats were in would be ideal for them to vanish and thrive in. If your ever in the Somerset/Dorset area I am more than willing to show you where these sightings took place. Also the time of day was very similar on both occasions as was the light and ambience.


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## wohic

Dan said:


> I have no doubt that "Wohic" and others can tell me they have seen a big cat and not lie to me. I also have no doubt in my mind that they are wrong.
> QUOTE]
> 
> sorry but in this instance you are the one that is wrong, I can tell a cat from a dog and a moggy from a 'big cat, I know what I saw, I was not under the influence of anything, it was morning, light was good . IT was a big cat, pure and simple, no mistakes at all.


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## gtm

wohic said:


> sorry but in this instance you are the one that is wrong, I can tell a cat from a dog and a moggy from a 'big cat, I know what I saw, I was not under the influence of anything, it was morning, light was good . IT was a big cat, pure and simple, no mistakes at all.


My friend Marcus Matthews (who lives not so far from you - Wiltshire) has written a book about the big cat phenomonen.

Big Cats Loose in Britain: Amazon.co.uk: Marcus Matthews: Books

He reckons there really are big cats out there & he's spent alot of time researching this.


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## thetomahawkkid58

Reptiledan said:


> YouTube - Big cat captured on video
> 
> Tbh i think it could be a dog...


the guy that filmed this was a DOG HANDLER !!!!, i think he would know, and i seen a large black cat less than five miles from where this film was taken, they are about :2thumb:


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## vawn

so i'm tryin to look up mike thomas, newquay zoo...


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## darloLee

vawn said:


> unless you bump into one!


:lol2: hopefully one i will :whistling2:


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## spicewwfc

Dan said:


> This paragraph tells everyone, everything you know about the subject :whistling2:
> 
> Okie dokie, melanistic leopards are common in captivity - just as much as melanistic jaguars, probably more so.
> 
> Panthers ARE a seperate species to both jaguars and leopards. The ONLY source to state otherwise is the disney movie "The Junglebook".
> Panthers are more commonly known as mountain lions, puma, cougars or any of the 35 other common names. That species has more common names than any other. The scientific name for the species is Puma concolor.
> There are no captive melanistic cougars.
> 
> I have no doubt that "Wohic" and others can tell me they have seen a big cat and not lie to me. I also have no doubt in my mind that they are wrong.
> A good friend of mine travelled from the USA to the UK and did a documentary for the animal planet channel on this subject and found no evidence at all - despite actually wanting to.
> 
> For those that don't know me, i have worked with all the big cats listed as possibles in this thread. The friend that came to do the documentary is Scott Lope, he has also done several other documentary style programs in Africa and the USA involving big cats.


Sadly i havent watched the jungle book since i was about 4.
If what you say is true why do many different sources say that there is no such species as a panther there are just melanistic mountain lions and jaguars? Chester zoo included.
I have also seen it stated in various nat geo and discovery channel programmes. 
Are you saying disney fooled everyone?


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## Dan

kato said:


> I don't think Wohic is wrong, I was sat next to her. I have also travelled all over the World and seen lots of big Cats so I know what I saw.





wohic said:


> sorry but in this instance you are the one that is wrong, I can tell a cat from a dog and a moggy from a 'big cat, I know what I saw, I was not under the influence of anything, it was morning, light was good . IT was a big cat, pure and simple, no mistakes at all.


I'm not accusing you both of anything other than seeing an animal that perhaps reminded you of a big cat which then, over the course of time you have changed into something that was definately a big cat.
On my side i have factual evidence to show that eye witnesses are often incorrect when asked to recall facts, along with positive reinforcement between the two of you strengthening the constantly evolving mental image you both have.
On your side you have your reputation, which tells me to remember that ordinarily i would not question you.

In this case however, i believe you are convinced you have seen a big cat but you were mistaken. At the end of the day though, i wasn't there so i don't "know" like you do. 
Until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp.


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## Dan

spicewwfc said:


> Sadly i havent watched the jungle book since i was about 4.
> If what you say is true why do many different sources say that there is no such species as a panther there are just melanistic mountain lions and jaguars? Chester zoo included.
> I have also seen it stated in various nat geo and discovery channel programmes.
> Are you saying disney fooled everyone?


I assume that was a typo, melanistic cougars (or mountain lions, panthers, etc etc) don't exist. 

Puma concolor has approximately 35-40 different common names, the name used depends on the location and person you ask. If you want a full list it was listed in the guinness book of records, although i'm not sure what year.

I expect what people have been saying is that black panthers dont exist, the panther is Puma concolor and they dont display melanism.

If not and anyone tells you panthers dont exist, yes they are wrong. Panthers do exist, just not black ones.

As an interesting side note, melanistic leopards and jaguars aren't actually black all over. The bulk of the fur is dark brown with black tips. When the sun catches the fur just right you can see the pattern in the fur still and if you shave them the pattern is on the skin too.

Next you'll tell me that the white tiger is an endangered sub-species and that more should be bred :lol2:


----------



## Breadrun

People can tell the difference between big cats and domestic dogs/cats, they move completely different and in the video of the railway track you can obviously see its large shoulder structure moving as it walks, as i said earlier on this thread I saw something which looked like a puma and it certainly wasnt a domestic cat or dog, the fence was 10ft high and when it was standing on all fours it nearly reached halfway (bout 3-5ft) - Also its fut was like shiny velvet (really glistened in the sun) and there is no dog breed that has that type of fur and niether a domestic cat of that size!

The problem with this debate si the fact that people who havent seen one will not believe the people who have, its just like ghosts, UFO's etc - just because you yourself havent been lucky enough to see one doesnt mean that someone else has had the lucky experiance of being in the right place at the right time

It annoys me when you hear of these acounts and yet there are people said to patrol the area for years saying that they have never seen one so it cant be true, as i said earlier a big cat is probably the best tracker there is on the planet, it would know if you were over 100's of feet away and if you were coming towards it which would then make it either head off in a different direction or climb a tree and be very quite -

On another note who is to say big cats havent killed anyone? look at how many people have been reported missing in the countryside and never been found, also you dont know what the goverment silence because if there were reports of a big cat eating people then it would cause widespread panic and ££££ to pay towards capturing it


----------



## kato

Dan said:


> I'm not accusing you both of anything other than seeing an animal that perhaps reminded you of a big cat which then, over the course of time you have changed into something that was definately a big cat.
> On my side i have factual evidence to show that eye witnesses are often incorrect when asked to recall facts, along with positive reinforcement between the two of you strengthening the constantly evolving mental image you both have.
> On your side you have your reputation, which tells me to remember that ordinarily i would not question you.
> 
> In this case however, i believe you are convinced you have seen a big cat but you were mistaken. At the end of the day though, i wasn't there so i don't "know" like you do.
> Until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp.


Please don't insult my memory. I know what I saw that day, I said to Julia before she even saw it "look at that Big Cat". Just because your research is inconclusive, you don't have to insult others.

If your worried about my memory I regularily represent England in International Bridge matches and am in the top five in the Country on a regular basis - as an educated person like you should know that Bridge is one of the most intelligent games in the World and largely involves your memory.


----------



## wohic

Dan said:


> I'm not accusing you both of anything other than seeing an animal that perhaps reminded you of a big cat which then, over the course of time you have changed into something that was definitely a big cat.
> On my side i have factual evidence to show that eye witnesses are often incorrect when asked to recall facts, along with positive reinforcement between the two of you strengthening the constantly evolving mental image you both have.
> On your side you have your reputation, which tells me to remember that ordinarily i would not question you.
> 
> In this case however, i believe you are convinced you have seen a big cat but you were mistaken. At the end of the day though, i wasn't there so i don't "know" like you do.
> Until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp.


 
You believe or dont believe what you like....unless someone in sherborne had the most incredibly lifelike animatronic 'puma' in the world what we saw was without doubt a 'Big Cat' I am no zoologist so its exact species I would not dream of stating (could have been a hybrid for example) but what it was without question was a non indigenous large cat


----------



## vawn

this looks promising
http://www.forteanzoology.com/cgi-b...bigc1;action=display;num=1258745915;start=0#0
http://www.forteanzoology.com/cgi-b...bigc1;action=display;num=1234316843;start=0#0


----------



## Ben W

wohic said:


> You believe or dont believe what you like....unless someone in sherborne had the most incredibly lifelike animatronic 'puma' in the world what we saw was without doubt a 'Big Cat' I am no zoologist so its exact species I would not dream of stating (could have been a hybrid for example) but what it was without question was a non indigenous large cat


 
I believe you, i have seen it in that general area, there is no doubt in my mind what it was.


----------



## Ben W

This was the species of cat i saw


----------



## Dan

kato said:


> Please don't insult my memory. I know what I saw that day, I said to Julia before she even saw it "look at that Big Cat". Just because your research is inconclusive, you don't have to insult others.


Show me where i was insulting please.
There is PLENTY of evidence clearly stating the memory is easily manipulated. Not offensive, just fact. If you don't believe me you are welcome to go and read some evidence that can be found using google.
I clearly said that on a normal basis i would take your word as fact, if anything at all that would be praise.

Long and short of it here is that your post reads as if you are offended because i don't believe you and as a result you are claiming i am insulting you. Is that really how it's meant? 

I get that an earlier post may have altered your view of nay sayers but still, breathe a little.



wohic said:


> You believe or dont believe what you like....unless someone in sherborne had the most incredibly lifelike animatronic 'puma' in the world what we saw was without doubt a 'Big Cat' I am no zoologist so its exact species I would not dream of stating (could have been a hybrid for example) but what it was without question was a non indigenous large cat


Apparently i am not allowed to believe that there are no big cats wandering in the UK.

If ANYONE has any good, solid, proof then great. You know, something like a body from one. Until that point i'll go on believing "witnesses" are mistaken.

If people find it offensive that i want proof, then that's there problem. Just remember:
People have seen the lochness monster
People have seen the Yeti
People have seen the Sasquatch
People have seen aliens on earth

I dont believe in those either.


----------



## kato

Ben W said:


> I believe you, i have seen it in that general area, there is no doubt in my mind what it was.





Ben W said:


> This was the species of cat i saw


Cool, I thought that Wohic and I were the only two to see a Big Cat in that area. 

When I was with Wohic we saw the Big Black Cat(what I call a Black Panther like in your photo) on the junction of New Road(Castle Road/Castle Garden Centre) and South Street where the Train station is.

The Big Black Cat and Baby Big Black Cat were on Revel's Hill near Cosmore, which is halfway between Sherborne and Dorchester. Both of my sightings were between 5.30 AM and 6 AM - see not bad for someone whose memory is being questioned.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## LFBP-NEIL

Ive seen big cats on the Isle of Wight, being surrounded by lots of trees, feilds, woodland etc etc i am pretty switched on to what native wildlife looks like - on one occasion i saw a large black cat in a field as i was driving towards it, it stood watching the car approach until we got closer and then it bounded away, second occasion i was driving home at night along a road that cuts into the side of downlands (for those that know the island - cowleaze just outside shanklin) and a rabbit ran in front of the car straight accross the road - which they normally do - only this one was then immediately followed by a lynx (or similar cat?? about the size of a stocky bull dog , pointy ears, tufty tail and covered in spots), it jumped from the bushes on the right hand side of the road, landed on the white line and cleared the road and into the hedge the other side in one leap, Had i been travelling 10 miles an hour faster i would have had evidence as it would have gone through the windscreen.


----------



## capester

Dan, you live in Canada. Sorry but you do. What position do you have to argue on the likelyhood of big cats in Britain? As for evidence, if you look on the BBCS website there are bodies of cats that have been shot, run over etc in Britain. However you skirt around the subject, you are calling people liars.......from across the Atlantic.


----------



## Dan

capester said:


> Dan, you live in Canada. Sorry but you do. What position do you have to argue on the likelyhood of big cats in Britain? As for evidence, if you look on the BBCS website there are bodies of cats that have been shot, run over etc in Britain. However you skirt around the subject, you are calling people liars.......from across the Atlantic.


LOL, you tit :whip:

Firstly, not one person has been called a liar by me.

Secondly, you don't know me so don't assume that because i live in Canada i have always lived here.


----------



## Zoo-Man

spicewwfc said:


> *Leopards are the 3rd largest big cat in the world.* The most popular cats kept in private collections was the lynx and Puma along with Jaguar/Panther.
> Leopard's are very dangerous, they cause more human deaths in India and Africa than Lions and Tigers put together.
> You are absolutely right about the terrain in this country tracking is much easier in dry scrub land than wet forest.
> But even in their native habitats it is near impossible to track a solitary big cat without the aid of hounds, and even then its hit and miss.
> 
> Also melanistic Leopards are very rare indeed its much more common in jaguars that's why panthers were considered their own species for such a long time.
> I think the prime candidates are jaguars/panthers, pumas and lynx's I would be very surprised If there are wild Leopards roaming the countryside. If they are its only a matter of time until someone is killed.


No they're not, Jaguars are.


----------



## 8and6

i was basically an open minded yet slightly sceptical on this issue until 2001 when i was working on a truck near drax yorkshire, and my friend spotted a dark cat over the field carrying a chicken from a local police officers smallholding.
it was a rhode island red and the crops it was walking through were knee high to us when we checked after it had gone.
so, those factors plus the roll of its shoulders as it walked and basic head shape pointed towards a cat, as did the 3" clawless tracks, and a cat that stood around 24" at the shoulder.

the cat was spotted a further 4 times by others, but since i have moved and not heard anything, but there have been alot of cat sightings around this area sice knaresborough zoo was closed down in the 70s, and thats only around 25 miles away

plus there are plenty of Roe Dear around to sustain a population of lynx


----------



## Ben W

kato said:


> Cool, I thought that Wohic and I were the only two to see a Big Cat in that area.
> 
> When I was with Wohic we saw the Big Black Cat(what I call a Black Panther like in your photo) on the junction of New Road(Castle Road/Castle Garden Centre) and South Street where the Train station is.
> 
> The Big Black Cat and Baby Big Black Cat were on Revel's Hill near Cosmore, which is halfway between Sherborne and Dorchester. Both of my sightings were between 5.30 AM and 6 AM - see not bad for someone whose memory is being questioned.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Yes i know that area well, used to work at Castle Gardens for a while!!!


----------



## wohic

capester said:


> Dan, you live in Canada. Sorry but you do. What position do you have to argue on the likelyhood of big cats in Britain? As for evidence, if you look on the BBCS website there are bodies of cats that have been shot, run over etc in Britain. However you skirt around the subject, you are calling people liars.......from across the Atlantic.


Dan is an 'ex pat' and has only been In canada a year or so 

He still needs a slap on the back of the legs though for not believing what we saw :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## vawn

i bet between us we can come to the truth, i have had, a while ago, documentations of physical evidence other than the actual bodies, just tryin to figure out where it has all gone cuz it has been that long now since any sitings, i blame that on climate change, it's much colder down here than it was 5 years ago


----------



## milly

Dan said:


> I'm not accusing you both of anything other than seeing an animal that perhaps reminded you of a big cat which then, over the course of time you have changed into something that was definately a big cat.
> On my side i have factual evidence to show that eye witnesses are often incorrect when asked to recall facts, along with positive reinforcement between the two of you strengthening the constantly evolving mental image you both have.
> On your side you have your reputation, which tells me to remember that ordinarily i would not question you.
> 
> In this case however, i believe you are convinced you have seen a big cat but you were mistaken. At the end of the day though, i wasn't there so i don't "know" like you do.
> Until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp.



Have you done a Psychology degree, with the 'recall and positive reinforcement'


----------



## Breadrun

lol Dans post makes me laugh - "I wasnt there so i dont "know" like you do. until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp

At the end of the day you cant get more pysical than seeing something in the flesh which numrous people have admitted too (myself including)

I think its so stupid when people say "it could have not been a big cat" because like i said earlier a big cat is in no way shape or form of anything other than a big cat, the muscle structure, size, fur, movement etc is much different from a dog or normal cat but just because sighting are few and far between people dismiss it as something else


----------



## Dan

wohic said:


> He still needs a slap on the back of the legs though for not believing what we saw :Na_Na_Na_Na:


I believe that you believe what you saw and i genuinely WANT to believe that there are big cats wandering in the UK, but i don't. I'm sorry but i need proof :blush:



milly said:


> Have you done a Psychology degree, with the 'recall and positive reinforcement'


No, i haven't. 
I havent been to space either, but i know the world isn't a disk on the back of a turtle.

What i can do though is read the evidence and journals set forth by those who have done said degrees which are based on actual research and not just conjecture (scary concept i know!).

Maybe, just maybe, you too will want to learn a little something new today (as i did when finding these links for you, and anyone else who thinks the memory is so reliable) and read some of these (i've started with easy ones for you):

Eyewitness identification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification
Psychological Issues of EyewitnessIdentification
http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_papers/2002/JScheer.pdf 

Now, if you're still not convinced and want to make more stupid comments and questions, then ask yourself this. If the scientific community didnt already know that eyewitness testimony is incredibly weak, then why did they do a study to see what age groups are the worst offenders?

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-11432-001&CFID=6029486&CFTOKEN=41462979

So, once more, for the fun of it.

I FULLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SAW A BIG CAT, I JUST BELIEVE THEY WERE MISTAKEN.
To my mind, that doesnt make them liars or any less as good, honest people. Just makes them human.




Breadrun said:


> lol Dans post makes me laugh - "I wasnt there so i dont "know" like you do. until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp
> 
> At the end of the day you cant get more pysical than seeing something in the flesh which numrous people have admitted too (myself including)


Of course you can get more physical, as mentioned a carcass or even some scat would be just perfect.
As i have clearly shown above, your memory and your eyes can and often do deceive you.




None of you need to like or be happy with the fact that eye witness accounts are extremely flawed, but to choose ignorance of what has been proven is a dangerous path!


----------



## slippery42

Dan said:


> I believe that you believe what you saw and i genuinely WANT to believe that there are big cats wandering in the UK, but i don't. I'm sorry but i need proof :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> No, i haven't.
> I havent been to space either, but i know the world isn't a disk on the back of a turtle.
> 
> What i can do though is read the evidence and journals set forth by those who have done said degrees which are based on actual research and not just conjecture (scary concept i know!).
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, you too will want to learn a little something new today (as i did when finding these links for you, and anyone else who thinks the memory is so reliable) and read some of these (i've started with easy ones for you):
> 
> Eyewitness identification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification
> Psychological Issues of EyewitnessIdentification
> http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_papers/2002/JScheer.pdf
> 
> Now, if you're still not convinced and want to make more stupid comments and questions, then ask yourself this. If the scientific community didnt already know that eyewitness testimony is incredibly weak, then why did they do a study to see what age groups are the worst offenders?
> 
> http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-11432-001&CFID=6029486&CFTOKEN=41462979
> 
> So, once more, for the fun of it.
> 
> I FULLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SAW A BIG CAT, I JUST BELIEVE THEY WERE MISTAKEN.
> To my mind, that doesnt make them liars or any less as good, honest people. Just makes them human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can get more physical, as mentioned a carcass or even some scat would be just perfect.
> As i have clearly shown above, your memory and your eyes can and often do deceive you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of you need to like or be happy with the fact that eye witness accounts are extremely flawed, but to choose ignorance of what has been proven is a dangerous path!


I like it Dan!


----------



## Breadrun

But Dan how is it ignorance? I have seen one with my own eyes and it was close and clear enough to tell it was nothing other than a big cat

Its like tryin to say that the red mini i saw today was infact a yellow bugatti veyron!


----------



## slippery42

Breadrun said:


> But Dan how is it ignorance? I have seen one with my own eyes and it was close and clear enough to tell it was nothing other than a big cat
> 
> Its like tryin to say that the red mini i saw today was infact a yellow bugatti veyron!


So if you were that close what species was it?


----------



## Breadrun

How do i know mate, it would be the exact same if i were to say "what specie of duck did you see today"

I saw a big black cat which was about 4ft high on its shoulders which no domestic cat could have been, plus it jumped a 10ft fence in the usual "cat" way


----------



## capester

Dan, I think you will find that it is you who is the tit. It's ok keep saying that you aren't calling people liars.....stupid maybe? There are people here who know that they have seen a big cat. Don't you think that you are being a little insulting to their intelligence by sayin that they have not seen what they clearly have, or is it that because you haven't seen a big cat in the UK they don't exist and you won't believe that they do until you see one for yourself?? 

There is evidence on the BBCS website, as stated earlier..... or are these people all lia.... er, I mean stupid too?


----------



## milly

Dan - Im doing a degree in psychology and then when i complete that i will be doing a Masters in Forensic Psychology so i know what Im talking about i just wanted to know if you DID, it was not a stupid comment i simply asked because of the terminology you choose to use! seriously you have a problem lol





I FULLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SAW A BIG CAT, I JUST BELIEVE THEY WERE MISTAKEN.
To my mind, that doesnt make them liars or any less as good, honest people. Just makes them human.




Of course you can get more physical, as mentioned a carcass or even some scat would be just perfect.
As i have clearly shown above, your memory and your eyes can and often do deceive you.




None of you need to like or be happy with the fact that eye witness accounts are extremely flawed, but to choose ignorance of what has been proven is a dangerous path![/QUOTE]


----------



## Dan

capester said:


> Dan, I think you will find that it is you who is the tit. It's ok keep saying that you aren't calling people liars.....stupid maybe? There are people here who know that they have seen a big cat. Don't you think that you are being a little insulting to their intelligence by sayin that they have not seen what they clearly have, or is it that because you haven't seen a big cat in the UK they don't exist and you won't believe that they do until you see one for yourself??
> 
> There is evidence on the BBCS website, as stated earlier..... or are these people all lia.... er, I mean stupid too?


Did you read any of my post or the links within it showing the reliability of eye witnesses?
Seriously, if you're just going to ignore the facts then why bother?



milly said:


> Dan - Im doing a degree in psychology and then when i complete that i will be doing a Masters in Forensic Psychology so i know what Im talking about i just wanted to know if you DID, it was not a stupid comment i simply asked because of the terminology you choose to use! seriously you have a problem lol


As you know what you're talking about then you will know all about leading questions and the interpretation of the well placed/timed written word.





It seems as if people here are offended by me not believing in something that i have no proof exists. Yet if a boy told you "santa exists, he left presents for him on xmas day and he saw him at the shopping centre" you wouldn't be in the slightest offended, you just wouldnt believe - and that's acceptable.......


I wont post here again.


----------



## Breadrun

Are you saying Santa doesnt exist? ...................................because that offends me


----------



## kato

Dan said:


> LOL, you tit :whip:
> 
> Firstly, not one person has been called a liar by me.
> 
> Secondly, you don't know me so don't assume that because i live in Canada i have always lived here.


Name calling is pathetic. There is no other way to take it that you are calling people Liars, my wife and I included. You don't know me, yet you openly state that what I saw I did'nt see. How on earth do you know? You were not there. In my ignorance I both times say that the Big Black Cat's that I saw(both times very very close up), was a Black Panther - they certainly were not Tiddles. This is because I do not know individual Cat Species. But I do know that these were no ordinary Cats. Even the youngster was bigger than a normal pet cat and that was stood directly next to the adult cat which was much bigger.



Breadrun said:


> lol Dans post makes me laugh - "I wasnt there so i dont "know" like you do. until physical evidence presents itself i will remain in the "non-believer" camp
> 
> At the end of the day you cant get more pysical than seeing something in the flesh which numrous people have admitted too (myself including)
> 
> I think its so stupid when people say "it could have not been a big cat" because like i said earlier a big cat is in no way shape or form of anything other than a big cat, the muscle structure, size, fur, movement etc is much different from a dog or normal cat but just because sighting are few and far between people dismiss it as something else


To true, but your probably wasting your time because some people are to stupid to get through to. Imagine if they turned blind or were born blind - nothing would exist in there opinion; this philosophy is pure utter rubbish - I can't see it therefore it does not exist!!!!



Dan said:


> I believe that you believe what you saw and i genuinely WANT to believe that there are big cats wandering in the UK, but i don't. I'm sorry but i need proof :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> No, i haven't.
> I havent been to space either, but i know the world isn't a disk on the back of a turtle.
> 
> What i can do though is read the evidence and journals set forth by those who have done said degrees which are based on actual research and not just conjecture (scary concept i know!).
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, you too will want to learn a little something new today (as i did when finding these links for you, and anyone else who thinks the memory is so reliable) and read some of these (i've started with easy ones for you):
> 
> Eyewitness identification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification
> Psychological Issues of EyewitnessIdentification
> http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_papers/2002/JScheer.pdf
> 
> Now, if you're still not convinced and want to make more stupid comments and questions, then ask yourself this. If the scientific community didnt already know that eyewitness testimony is incredibly weak, then why did they do a study to see what age groups are the worst offenders?
> 
> http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-11432-001&CFID=6029486&CFTOKEN=41462979
> 
> So, once more, for the fun of it.
> 
> I FULLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SAW A BIG CAT, I JUST BELIEVE THEY WERE MISTAKEN.
> To my mind, that doesnt make them liars or any less as good, honest people. Just makes them human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can get more physical, as mentioned a carcass or even some scat would be just perfect.
> As i have clearly shown above, your memory and your eyes can and often do deceive you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of you need to like or be happy with the fact that eye witness accounts are extremely flawed, but to choose ignorance of what has been proven is a dangerous path!





slippery42 said:


> I like it Dan!


:bash: I just don't understand you. For instance if you read something that is well documented you believe it - yes? and you believe all the Scientist's - yes? So(this is one thing of the top of my head) - Crested Geckos were extinct 10/15 years a go according to experts, none existed in the World - yet here we are 10/15 years later and hey presto Crested Geckos exist again, we have a load in our collection, check the Classified Section of RFUK, Cresties Galore!!!!! So now do you believe everything you read?



slippery42 said:


> So if you were that close what species was it?


Have you ever thought of travelling to Canada?:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## slippery42

kato said:


> Name calling is pathetic. There is no other way to take it that you are calling people Liars, my wife and I included. You don't know me, yet you openly state that what I saw I did'nt see. How on earth do you know? You were not there. In my ignorance I both times say that the Big Black Cat's that I saw(both times very very close up), was a Black Panther - they certainly were not Tiddles. This is because I do not know individual Cat Species. But I do know that these were no ordinary Cats. Even the youngster was bigger than a normal pet cat and that was stood directly next to the adult cat which was much bigger.
> 
> 
> 
> To true, but your probably wasting your time because some people are to stupid to get through to. Imagine if they turned blind or were born blind - nothing would exist in there opinion; this philosophy is pure utter rubbish - I can't see it therefore it does not exist!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :bash: I just don't understand you. For instance if you read something that is well documented you believe it - yes? and you believe all the Scientist's - yes? So(this is one thing of the top of my head) - Crested Geckos were extinct 10/15 years a go according to experts, none existed in the World - yet here we are 10/15 years later and hey presto Crested Geckos exist again, we have a load in our collection, check the Classified Section of RFUK, Cresties Galore!!!!! So now do you believe everything you read?
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever thought of travelling to Canada?:Na_Na_Na_Na:


No I do not believe everything I read, but plenty do and they believe in fairy stories .........


----------



## kettykev

I am waiting for the day when Slippery sees one but does not have a camera with him..."But I did, honest, it was there, I saw it"!


----------



## slippery42

kettykev said:


> I am waiting for the day when Slippery sees one but does not have a camera with him..."But I did, honest, it was there, I saw it"!


Now that will never happen, always have two cameras with me. A pro DSLR and a little digital back up!

however I could just take an old crappy phone with me and make real bad video and images like the many "big cat videos" on youtube!

I couldnt sleep last night so spent a couple of hours going through as many as I could find, god awful and funny in a way.

Its amazing how many seem to film bloody black pussy cats and try to persuade people they are looking at something big!

I think I said this before but just in case some people dont get it here I go...

Yes I have no doubt that there may be the odd large cat about but not anywhere near the numbers that some are indicating.

i'd feel quite happy to think that there were and that "little jonny" might get eaten as he trashes the countryside.


----------



## Andy G

Breadrun said:


> How do i know mate, it would be the exact same if i were to say "what specie of duck did you see today"
> 
> I saw a big black cat which was about 4ft high on its shoulders which no domestic cat could have been, plus it jumped a 10ft fence in the usual "cat" way


4ft at the shoulder? What was it, a Lion? Also if you were to ask anyone with a passing knowledge of British wildlife what type of duck they saw im pretty sure most could tell you.


----------



## vawn

Dan said:


> I believe that you believe what you saw and i genuinely WANT to believe that there are big cats wandering in the UK, but i don't. I'm sorry but i need proof :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> No, i haven't.
> I havent been to space either, but i know the world isn't a disk on the back of a turtle.
> 
> What i can do though is read the evidence and journals set forth by those who have done said degrees which are based on actual research and not just conjecture (scary concept i know!).
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, you too will want to learn a little something new today (as i did when finding these links for you, and anyone else who thinks the memory is so reliable) and read some of these (i've started with easy ones for you):
> 
> Eyewitness identification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification
> Psychological Issues of EyewitnessIdentification
> http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_papers/2002/JScheer.pdf
> 
> Now, if you're still not convinced and want to make more stupid comments and questions, then ask yourself this. If the scientific community didnt already know that eyewitness testimony is incredibly weak, then why did they do a study to see what age groups are the worst offenders?
> 
> http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-11432-001&CFID=6029486&CFTOKEN=41462979
> 
> So, once more, for the fun of it.
> 
> I FULLY BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY SAW A BIG CAT, I JUST BELIEVE THEY WERE MISTAKEN.
> To my mind, that doesnt make them liars or any less as good, honest people. Just makes them human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can get more physical, as mentioned a carcass or even some scat would be just perfect.
> As i have clearly shown above, your memory and your eyes can and often do deceive you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of you need to like or be happy with the fact that eye witness accounts are extremely flawed, but to choose ignorance of what has been proven is a dangerous path!


sssoooo based on the evidence that some people in the world are deluded, that means hundreds of us who have seen the same thing are also deluded, just cuz of this 'paper' i don't believe you, where's the EVIDENCE!!!!
examine me an produce a report on how deluded I am to prove it!

ACTING IN IGNORANCE (ESPECIALLY IN THE FACE OF SO MANY TESTAMENTS AND STATEMENTS) IS VERY FOOLISH ISN'T IT


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## vawn

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/...itish-Zoology--1766-Thomas-Pennant-211075.jpg
so what duck is this?


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## slippery42

vawn said:


> http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/...itish-Zoology--1766-Thomas-Pennant-211075.jpg
> so what duck is this?


A painted one:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Ben W

vawn said:


> http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/...itish-Zoology--1766-Thomas-Pennant-211075.jpg
> so what duck is this?


 
its a tadorna tadorna:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## vawn

cool so hybridised puma/lynxes? you up on them?


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## Ben W

vawn said:


> cool so hybridised puma/lynxes? you up on them?


 Not up on them, but i know a panther when i see one!!!


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## vawn

woowoo gettin closer check this out
British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website
'The latest report from the British Big Cats Society not only reveals startling new evidence for big cats in Britain, but also that the numbers roaming our countryside could be increasing. The report, covering research from April 04 to July 05, is to be published exclusively in the April issue of BBC Wildlife magazine on sale16 March 2006 (£3.25).

The BBCS report reveals that 2,123 sightings of big cats were reported between April 2004 and July 2005. The South West once again proved a hot-spot for sightings, with Devon, Cornwall and Somerset all featuring in the top ten big cat locations. Scotland came in third, seeing almost a 50% drop in sightings reported, and was replaced at the top by Devon. Wales was 4th on the list with 123 reported sightings and incidents. Almost 60% of all the sightings reported were of black cats, and 32% were of brown or sandy coloured ones, which the BBCS believes to be pumas. Another 6% were lynx type cats.

New evidence published includes a skull found by a Devon farmer in July 2005 that has now been identified as that of a puma; three reported attacks on horses; over 35 incidents regarding sheep kills; several confirmed paw prints of which plaster casts were taken; and 17 reports of a big cat with cubs – an increasing trend, which suggests that the animals may be breeding. During the study over half a dozen hair samples, now awaiting analysis, were also collected.

The BBCS has also gathered evidence of at least 23 releases of big cats into the wild since the Dangerous Animals Act was passed in 1976, including a panther, pumas, lynxes and a host of exotics including caracals, ocelots and jungle cats. Many of the original owners are now owning up to their past misdeeds.'


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## vawn

Ben W said:


> Not up on them, but i know a panther when i see one!!!


as far as i can tell it's black cats in england n pumas n lynxs in the west, it was a puma ish I saw, n hey guys, if you can't tell the diff between a dog tail n a cat tail, then you don't deserve eyes!!!


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## slippery42

vawn said:


> woowoo gettin closer check this out
> British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website
> 'The latest report from the British Big Cats Society not only reveals startling new evidence for big cats in Britain, but also that the numbers roaming our countryside could be increasing. The report, covering research from April 04 to July 05, is to be published exclusively in the April issue of BBC Wildlife magazine on sale16 March 2006 (£3.25).
> 
> The BBCS report reveals that 2,123 sightings of big cats were reported between April 2004 and July 2005. The South West once again proved a hot-spot for sightings, with Devon, Cornwall and Somerset all featuring in the top ten big cat locations. Scotland came in third, seeing almost a 50% drop in sightings reported, and was replaced at the top by Devon. Wales was 4th on the list with 123 reported sightings and incidents. Almost 60% of all the sightings reported were of black cats, and 32% were of brown or sandy coloured ones, which the BBCS believes to be pumas. Another 6% were lynx type cats.
> 
> New evidence published includes a skull found by a Devon farmer in July 2005 that has now been identified as that of a puma; three reported attacks on horses; over 35 incidents regarding sheep kills; several confirmed paw prints of which plaster casts were taken; and 17 reports of a big cat with cubs – an increasing trend, which suggests that the animals may be breeding. During the study over half a dozen hair samples, now awaiting analysis, were also collected.
> 
> The BBCS has also gathered evidence of at least 23 releases of big cats into the wild since the Dangerous Animals Act was passed in 1976, including a panther, pumas, lynxes and a host of exotics including caracals, ocelots and jungle cats. Many of the original owners are now owning up to their past misdeeds.'


Interesting that those who claim there are a significant number of big cats about use the British Big Cat Society web site. The very one which has its latest news as 15 march 2006, wow lots to report then!:whistling2:


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## sharpstrain

I too have seen one - it was in the middle of the road as I came round a bend and it ran and then left - I was 10 feet away tops and high up in a van. I saw it very clearly it was without any doubt a panther. I didnt report it, never mentioned it to anyone and heard of severl other siting over the next few days.

I dont really care who believes me or who doesnt, I saw what I saw and was lucky to do so.


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## Woodsman

The British Big Cat debate must have appeared on every animal related forum/magazine going.
Obviously,so many people see something.
Someone here saw a black cat about four foot at the shoulder.This shows how difficult it is to judge identifications.Only Lions and possibly Siberian Tigers reach anywhere near this size.
If animals were released to avoid the DWA act,then bearing in mind most of these would have been at least semi-tame,wouldn't they have been far more conspicuous.and widely photographed.
I have studied British Wildlife for the best part of half a century.
My work in forestry takes me daily into some of the most remote forests in Wales,I alsocarry out all night moth recording sessions in these forests.
Despite the area being a hotbed of sightings,I have seen nothing to make me believe them.
I would love to be proved wrong,but am convinced there are none in this area at least.


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## kato

sharpstrain said:


> I too have seen one - it was in the middle of the road as I came round a bend and it ran and then left - I was 10 feet away tops and high up in a van. I saw it very clearly it was without any doubt a panther. I didnt report it, never mentioned it to anyone and heard of severl other siting over the next few days.
> 
> I dont really care who believes me or who doesnt, I saw what I saw and was lucky to do so.


Julia(Wohic) and I never reported our siting officially. Julia did file a report via a Big Cat Site who were going to get back to her for the details but never did. To be truthful it was a really special moment for the both of us and I to consider myself something of that magnitude. In actual fact we have until recently told very very few people.

I have since find out that there is a Law in place which means that you must report Big Cat Sightings at the time - but we did not know that back then. I'm not sure which Law it is though.


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## vawn

slippery42 said:


> Interesting that those who claim there are a significant number of big cats about use the British Big Cat Society web site. The very one which has its latest news as 15 march 2006, wow lots to report then!:whistling2:


mmm k so along those lines, it must mean that if all herpers are on a/one/this herp site then, it could be that noone actually has any herps?
there are at least 4 different forums following this subjuct, that's a hell of a lot more than there are proper british herp sites
how about the site that has it's monthly meeting next week?!!


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## Sid.lola

I saw one.

End.


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## slippery42

vawn said:


> mmm k so along those lines, it must mean that if all herpers are on a/one/this herp site then, it could be that noone actually has any herps?
> there are at least 4 different forums following this subjuct, that's a hell of a lot more than there are proper british herp sites
> how about the site that has it's monthly meeting next week?!!


Cant wait!


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## sharpstrain

kato said:


> Julia(Wohic) and I never reported our siting officially. Julia did file a report via a Big Cat Site who were going to get back to her for the details but never did. To be truthful it was a really special moment for the both of us and I to consider myself something of that magnitude. In actual fact we have until recently told very very few people.
> 
> I have since find out that there is a Law in place which means that you must report Big Cat Sightings at the time - but we did not know that back then. I'm not sure which Law it is though.


 
I just think it is a fantastic thing to know - beyond doubt - I feel really privelaged.
As for the law - well how would they know.


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## vawn

i've hit a brick wall. all the people i used to contact when i was tryin to study this 'can't be found' according to several sources, the evidence (bodies, paw casts, scats n pooh) has been incinerated by the government, i can't get my way back onto the trail. i don't believe in cover ups or conspiracies, that goes a little too far for me...


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## slippery42

vawn said:


> i've hit a brick wall. all the people i used to contact when i was tryin to study this 'can't be found' according to several sources, the evidence (bodies, paw casts, scats n pooh) has been incinerated by the government, i can't get my way back onto the trail. i don't believe in cover ups or conspiracies, that goes a little too far for me...


Perhaps Elvis has taken it?


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## carlo69

*hi*

People keep saying if they existed there would be physical evidence ,
I think if i remember rightly that there was a lynx found dying in someones back garden a few years ago in the suburbs of london ,a leopard cat shot on the isle of white trying to get at someones chickens ,Another lynx found dead in the peak district ,A puma was caught in surrey in the 80's also a friend of mine 2 years ago picked up a large cat weighing over 60 pounds from the side of the road in essex. So i am sure that must cover physical evidence, why is it so hard to believe its possible for these things to exist in the wild? In parts of the world where these cats are rare 
people live within a few miles of them and live there whole lives not ever seeing one .Why should it be so different here?


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## vawn

there WAS physical evidence but it's 'GONE'.... mmm n if photo's n witness statements don't count then ...


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## tokay

there out there trust me 
end of


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## vawn

i don't just believe, i know, it's soooo frustratin specially in light of recent developments in the big cat research world (


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## vawn

with reference to my dead end...
info from 'a friend'
A cover-up in so much as if the government acknowledged the existence of exotic cats in the British countryside, they would then be liable for compensation payouts to farmers who had lost livestock. Therefore it makes sense for officialdom to deny the existence and remove any corpses that are killed on the roads, or at least urge others to destroy the evidence as happened in the case of the Beccles lynx. Also many people from the UK, who have lived without large predators for several hundred years, are unlikely to respond well to the news that a cat slightly larger than tiddles is roaming about. You can imagine many nutters armed with shotguns taking to the hills to get their 15 mins of fame. I actually wrote an article on this topic about 10 years ago, and sent it to the Fortean Times, however they never contacted me back, which states volumes about my literary skills.


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## Andy G

vawn said:


> with reference to my dead end...
> info from 'a friend'
> A cover-up in so much as if the government acknowledged the existence of exotic cats in the British countryside, they would then be liable for compensation payouts to farmers who had lost livestock. Therefore it makes sense for officialdom to deny the existence and remove any corpses that are killed on the roads, or at least urge others to destroy the evidence as happened in the case of the Beccles lynx. Also many people from the UK, who have lived without large predators for several hundred years, are unlikely to respond well to the news that a cat slightly larger than tiddles is roaming about. You can imagine many nutters armed with shotguns taking to the hills to get their 15 mins of fame. I actually wrote an article on this topic about 10 years ago, and sent it to the Fortean Times, however they never contacted me back, which states volumes about my literary skills.


Ha ha ha!


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## mattsdragons

i have just got back from walking over some hills and i have seen the midland BLACK PANTHER! it was about 10 meters away from me, massive thing! huge female! it was amazing! there has been about 3 sitings reacently in my area. i hought it was not real but have seen it with my own eyes!


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## Ozgi

I really really want to believe they are out there, but until I see some physical evidence, or an undoubtable piece of video footage then I have to stay on the non-believer side.

I cannot believe in something until it has been proven.

The DWA list came into effect in the 70's, and I wonder why, in the last 40 years, in such a highly populated country, there has been not one piece of unquestionable evidence.


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## dionator

i believe in fairys : victory:


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## Andy G

When is the cut off point? After, say, 40 years of no proof is that time to say 'hey its a load of b***ocks'? People like mystery, 200 years ago it was massive, black spectral dogs that were seen in the same locations, fitting the same description and they were no more real than these cats. They just do not exist but you will have a hard time convincing people who want to believe. Best of luck to them.


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## Wildman

There's supposed to be a black panther where we live that a few people have claimed to see (including my mother). It's called the beast of Bath lol.


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## Ben W

Andy G said:


> When is the cut off point? After, say, 40 years of no proof is that time to say 'hey its a load of b***ocks'? People like mystery, 200 years ago it was massive, black spectral dogs that were seen in the same locations, fitting the same description and they were no more real than these cats. They just do not exist but you will have a hard time convincing people who want to believe. Best of luck to them.


 
yeah well i was a sceptic too, til i saw one and then had to revise my thinking, so they are out there, just very few and far between, but i can see why a small cat like creature can get blown up into a panther size creature in ones mind.
At the end of the day there will always be non believers and ones who believe and te few that have actually seen, but i agree there is a dictinct lack of decent photo evidence out there


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## mrcarlxx

i live near lonleat, so i have heard loads of stories however i asume thats all they are "stories"


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## vawn

Andy G said:


> When is the cut off point? After, say, 40 years of no proof is that time to say 'hey its a load of b***ocks'? People like mystery, 200 years ago it was massive, black spectral dogs that were seen in the same locations, fitting the same description and they were no more real than these cats. They just do not exist but you will have a hard time convincing people who want to believe. Best of luck to them.


...the spectoral dog that started a mystery n ended up bein pumas...


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## Luca Brasi

Zoo-Man said:


> costs. Leopards also take their kills up into trees, & there have been many findings of deer, sheep & other prey items in trees.


I've watched every documentary going on this subject. I've never seen a WILD big cat in Britain but do know two people who claim to have. I agree there is plenty of evidence to support the theory that some were let loose after the introduction of the DWAL.

Whether or not there are viable breeding populations I'm not sure. I have to ask though, what evidence is there of sheep being found in trees? I've never heard that one before.

LB


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## NBLADE

Luca Brasi said:


> I've watched every documentary going on this subject. I've never seen a WILD big cat in Britain but do know two people who claim to have. I agree there is plenty of evidence to support the theory that some were let loose after the introduction of the DWAL.
> 
> Whether or not there are viable breeding populations I'm not sure. I have to ask though, what evidence is there of sheep being found in trees? I've never heard that one before.
> 
> LB


 
i was out walking a few yrs back and saw what looked like a goats carcass wedged in a tree, was really decayed so wasn't fresh, and the tree had what looked like scratch marks in the bark, like something had climbed it, whether it was a big cat, or people messing around to make it look like there had been or not, i don't know, but i know a few people that swear they have seen one, and would take there word, so do believe there are some out there.


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## kain

vawn said:


> ...the spectoral dog that started a mystery n ended up bein pumas...



Didn't the large spectral dog come off a transelvanian ship that arrived in whitby ?


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## vawn

that wasn't a spectre, it was one of the hounds of hell!!


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## *mogwai*

i believe there are big cats out there. i'm a there's-no-smoke-without-fire person and too many people have reported sightings for there to be nothing, not to mention those that have seen something but not reported it. true some people may be mistaken and some people may lie to get attention but you can't write off _all _sighting as mistakes/lies. 

are there figures anywhere of how many big cats were kept as pets before the DWA came about?


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## sharpstrain

there was a newspaper report of one being seen in cirencester yesterday - there was a dodgy pic and it did look like a big moggy to me


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## slippery42

Wow great photo! Ideal for all those who believe in fairies etc


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## witchyroo

wohic said:


> I have seen one at a distance of about 3 meters, so yes they are about, it croseed the road in front of our car trotted off down a lane and even looked back at us as we stared in shock lol.
> Also years ago we had several sheep attacked, the vet that examined them said that what ever had killed them had jumped on there backs and then bitten the throat........ no heel bites and a dog would tend to go in from the side and take the throat, they were so concerned at the time that the army came and searched the woodland surrounding our land.


I've also seen what I think was a puma, in North Dorset, so I'd say yes they are around


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## v-josh-dub27

I live in lincolnshire and my dad and my nan have both seen a big cat, neither of them know what species it was but they both said it was a big black cat. I've not seen it unfortunatly I'd really like too.


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## timberwolf

At the risk of Dan calling me an idiot or insulting my recall, I have also seen a big cat in my local vicinity, Now I have a black cat, and 8 dogs and I certainly know the difference. I am also an educated woman with a background in Science and medicine.

I know what I saw, and when, after three weeks of feeling slightly silly, I mentioned it to one of our local shoot member, he laughed at me, and said they've been in the area for years and sightings are commomplace. 

Interestingly, Ragley Hall is one of those places that kept big cats until the 70's. It now breeds deer for meat, and is less than 5 miles from my home deep in the worcestershire countryside. 

Wohic and Kato, I absolutely believe that what you saw was a big cat.


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## kato

timberwolf said:


> At the risk of Dan calling me an idiot or insulting my recall, I have also seen a big cat in my local vicinity, Now I have a black cat, and 8 dogs and I certainly know the difference. I am also an educated woman with a background in Science and medicine.
> 
> I know what I saw, and when, after three weeks of feeling slightly silly, I mentioned it to one of our local shoot member, he laughed at me, and said they've been in the area for years and sightings are commomplace.
> 
> Interestingly, Ragley Hall is one of those places that kept big cats until the 70's. It now breeds deer for meat, and is less than 5 miles from my home deep in the worcestershire countryside.
> 
> Wohic and Kato, I absolutely believe that what you saw was a big cat.


 
Cool. Thank you.

I know what we saw, there was no doubt - it was half the width of a road away.


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## DiegotheDestroyer

Think about the Scottish Highlands. a few thousand miles of mountains where no one ever goes, covered in forest, and they have loads of wildlife: deer, grouse etc. They have in the past sustained wolf and bear populations, so a large cat isn't that unrealistic. If there is a population up there then it probably wouldn't be that many individuals spread over a massive area. Its certainly plausible. I don't know if its true or not, but I'd like to know exactly what happened to all those animals in 1976 after the DWA came into force


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## leedavis

Hi, They are defo out there, people say that well how come we dont nsee them more often???? i can take you to a wood were i know there are deer. around half a mile sq bit of wood. Huge males with antlers i can walk in to that wood and not see one at this time of year with no leaves on the trees let alone summer. If something that big can hide so can a cat. This is what they were built for, hunting, stelth, camo. element of suprise, is how they hunt. 

So yes they are out there somewere, and breeding. I think it was back in the 80's when people kept big cats as pets, but new laws were introduced regards DWA so alloot of people let them go. 

They will find each other in the wild no problems to breed.

Lee


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## ricardo1

i have seen a huge black cat in dunwich down in suffolk walked across the road infront of my car


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## marbleman

v-josh-dub27 said:


> I live in lincolnshire and my dad and my nan have both seen a big cat, neither of them know what species it was but they both said it was a big black cat. I've not seen it unfortunatly I'd really like too.



I live in lincolnshire too and I remember a while ago there was a lot of sightings of a black 'puma' looking cat around the stamford/rutland area.Was in the local papers


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