# Hamster colours?



## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Well I've just bred my 1st litter of syrian hamsters. Both parents are long haired blacks, with white chins and white feet. I was expecting a litter of black babies, just like the parents.
A bit of a surprise though...She had 4 babies almost 2 weeks ago. 2 Black with white paws, chins, and each of them have one tiny tummy spot, and one has a teeny white spot on its back.
The other 2 are quite strange :blush: One is a weird brown colour, definitely not golden, not cream, and showing no other markings. The other little one is a tort I think. Mostly black with lots of marking underneath in a light ginger colour, white feet and spotting on her back. 
I will get some pictures up soon but want to know how these came about first:blush:

Thanks for any help!: victory:


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Blacks often have 'faults' white chin stripes (belly splodges) + white 'socks' are common. 

Any unexpected colours most likely down to having recessive genes in common, hard to say without pics.

Weird brown ? 
possibly mink ? 
If so would means both your Blacks carry Cream - Mink is basically an Umbrous Red eyed Cream.
Or Chocolate ?
Would mean Rust is in the mix.

If the odd one is a tort means you have Yellow in there somewhere too.

Loads of 'if's and 'buts'... Need pics ! lol


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Yellow isn't recessive is it??
Or at least I don't think it is.

I breed specifically for tort and never get them when I breed black x black even though my blacks are from tort so, if yellow 'carried', they would all carry it.

I suppose at 2 weeks your baby you think is black may just be a washed out black. Is it a doe?
Also are your parents related? Well the hamsters but you know what I mean:blush:

Pics would be great but dont' rush them when they are so young there's plenty of time before you upset Mum with pics.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks for the quick replies. Both parents are totally unrelated  Mummy hamster was good today and wanted some ''out'' time so got some quick pictures when she was out of the cage. Will put them up tomorrow.  The 2 Black Babies are 1 Male, 1 Female. The Torti is a female and the ''weird'' colour is a male. She's being a great mum and the babies are huge already! They are eating now & walking around the cage  I've also got some others I'm a bit confused about here and will post pictures of them all tomorrow!

Thanks again...Appreciate all the help already!


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

That's odd to get torts from blacks.
You would usually need at least one yellow parent.
I'm going to take a look around and find out if yellow is recessive.
Can't wait for pics.

I'll put some pics of my babies on my 'for sale' thread as well.



Moonshine said:


> Thanks for the quick replies. Both parents are totally unrelated  Mummy hamster was good today and wanted some ''out'' time so got some quick pictures when she was out of the cage. Will put them up tomorrow.  The 2 Black Babies are 1 Male, 1 Female. The Torti is a female and the ''weird'' colour is a male. She's being a great mum and the babies are huge already! They are eating now & walking around the cage  I've also got some others I'm a bit confused about here and will post pictures of them all tomorrow!
> 
> Thanks again...Appreciate all the help already!


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Yep - you would need Yellow from one of the parents Saxon. 

Was just pondering the outside chance mum could be a very poorly marked Tort. May be a tiny mark or 2 hidden here and there, easy missed on some.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Myth said:


> Yep - you would need Yellow from one of the parents Saxon.
> 
> Was just pondering the outside chance mum could be a very poorly marked Tort. May be a tiny mark or 2 hidden here and there, easy missed on some.


That's what I was thinking.
I have a girl here that most would think was black but when she was a baby her markings were fantastic so I know she is a tort.
I'll get a pic of her so the OP can see how difficult it is sometimes to see that a doe is in fact tort.

I'm always a bit wary of giving advice because I usually get contradicted from some 'knowitall'..
I 'knew' you needed yellow I am just cautious in how I word my posts now.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Just taken pics of my two 'black tort' girls.
One is very easy to see as tort the other used to be almost impossible to tell but must have gone through another moult as I can actually see yellow there now. Not much and in the fur it is more dificult to see than in the pics.

Younger longhaired tort doe.....7 weeks old.









Older girl.....9 months now. The yellow is very difficult to see when you are actually looking at her.


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

saxon said:


> That's what I was thinking.
> I have a girl here that most would think was black but when she was a baby her markings were fantastic so I know she is a tort.
> I'll get a pic of her so the OP can see how difficult it is sometimes to see that a doe is in fact tort.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean Saxon...no worries.

Must say though - You seem to have some YUMMY Black Torts. !! :mf_dribble:


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks again for the replies  Gorgeous hamsters Saxon...Very pretty!

Just had another look at mum hamster and she doesn't have any markings, other than the white feet and chin. After taking a picture of them all together, mum looks off brown/copper colour? Babies are walking around now and she's worn out trying to bring them back to the nest again :lol2:
Here are the pictures of them :flrt: I really love these babies...Thinking of keeping all of them:whistling2::mf_dribble:
*Please note, I would never ever scruff a baby hamster but needed to with the torti baby as my hand covered the markings:blush:














































Thanks: victory:


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Hmm.
Blacks do brown as they get older - some earlier than others - if she is a browning black then I guessing it would make any patches of 'tort' very hard or impossible to spot.

Nice black babes you have there. The 'tort' babe looks tort to me. 
Unsure on the 'funny brown-ish' one though. Not seen many pictures of yellow black will have to have a hunt. 
If it has no other markings it must be some form of 'self' colour...
just not sure what !


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks  The ''funny brown-ish'' one has now gotten a little bit darker and is showing white feet, and maybe a white tummy patch! Really strange


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Here's a couple of pics of yellow black. 
They darken as they age as well.
I have three babies here, two yellow/black and one honey/black.

This boy is now well over a year but I have no recent pics of him. He's also banded but you get the picture???
2 weeks old.









About 4-5 weeks.









Litle older. About 3 months I think.









A little girl who has just had the litter of three. Obviously when she was younger. About 5 weeks old.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures :no1: He seems to be Yellow Black :flrt: Will update with pictures as they grow! Really nice babies there by the way...Would love to own something like them someday!:mf_dribble:
Heres some other pictures of my other hamsters & a link to my website :notworthy:
Moonshine Hamstery - Home 
I breed Syrian Hamsters & Fancy Mice. Have got a litter of 7 PEW mice at the moment...Adorable :flrt: Also got a cream Long haired hamster due on Wednesday, and another tort female due Friday Week. They will hopefully bring some nice surprises 




























Thanks: victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

You have some nice little hammys there.

I have a BEC with a litter here, bit disappointing to be honest, I've got 1 REC, 2 cinnie and 3 doves. The doves are rather nice though but I wanted a nice BEC.

I also have the grey with DS...that litter is stunning.

Yellow banded with a 'lucky bag' litter. Again Doves, yellow/blacks and a tort. OH! and a couple of stray goldens!!!

I have the yellow/black doe in the pics on the other post who has three stunning babies, they are mahoosive, a lovely honey/black and two yellow/ blacks.

I have an umbrous black tort and white due in a few days to my Yellow boy 'Useless', that's his name and a light grey DS banded due as well.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Wow...Lots of babies :flrt: I'm looking for some advice on pairing if possible :blush: Have got a mixed bunch here & not sure who to breed with who:blush:
Will post a quick list & see what everybody thinks if ye dont mind: victory:

Male Grey & White short haired...Samson
Male Black Long haired...Humphrey
Female Golden Banded S.Hair...Poppy
Female Golden Long haired...Muzzles

Thats it for now really...Want to give all expecting and nursing mothers a break for a while but anyway I have a LH BEC Female, LH Black Female, And SH Tort female 

Thanks for all your help!!:2thumb:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Do you know their ancestry at all??
If not it's a bit of a lucky bag when breeding them.
I'd keep cream away from the blacks.
Breeding your goldens to anyone may result in all godlen litters if they don't carry the same genes.

When your SH tort is ready I'd use the LH black on her to get LH& SH torts, blacks and yellows. Again you could get other varieties depending on what they carry.
I'd also use the black buck on the black doe to see if you get somenice blacks.

As I say though it's a lucky bag when you dont' know their ancestry.

I've recently added 2 'petshop' does, I know I'm bad...gives oneself a slap on the hand, simply because they are stunning.
I know both are granddaughters from my lines but I don't know the opposite parent. At least I will have a onesided history!
They are light grey banded LH and a beautiful, what I can only describe as, light blue DS. I know she won't be blue but by heck she looks it. Maybe pearl!







Moonshine said:


> Wow...Lots of babies :flrt: I'm looking for some advice on pairing if possible :blush: Have got a mixed bunch here & not sure who to breed with who:blush:
> Will post a quick list & see what everybody thinks if ye dont mind: victory:
> 
> Male Grey & White short haired...Samson
> ...


I also have blue, grey, mink and white mice in my litters along with some stunning baby rat kitts.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

saxon said:


> Do you know their ancestry at all??
> If not it's a bit of a lucky bag when breeding them.
> I'd keep cream away from the blacks.
> Breeding your goldens to anyone may result in all godlen litters if they don't carry the same genes.
> ...



I'd love to live in England :lol2: So much more variety over there! The Tort female is pregnant to the Black LH male :mf_dribble: Took a chance as was waiting for her to come in heat & when she did I thought I'd take a chance and put her with him! Wonder what the babies will look like now :whistling2:

Is the Grey & White male any good here? Wanted a grey for a long time but starting to concentrate on Torts & Long haired Blacks so I'm not sure:blush:

Would love to see those mice :mf_dribble: I've got a blue male fancy mouse here & 2 long haired females. Others are just PEW's! Love ratties too...No space at the moment though :bash:
: victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Moonshine said:


> I'd love to live in England :lol2: So much more variety over there! The Tort female is pregnant to the Black LH male :mf_dribble: Took a chance as was waiting for her to come in heat & when she did I thought I'd take a chance and put her with him! Wonder what the babies will look like now :whistling2:
> 
> Is the Grey & White male any good here? Wanted a grey for a long time but starting to concentrate on Torts & Long haired Blacks so I'm not sure:blush:
> 
> ...


From your Tort to the black I'd expect tort does, black does, black bucks and 'maybe' yellow bucks at a push. Again depending no what they carry.

I'm no expert with the greys and different greys 'act' in different ways apparently.
I have what I think is a dark grey tort doe here, she's the one with the DS litter, I'm still awaiting veryfication on her though. She's had tort young to a black buck so it's obvious to me she's tort but I have had people say she isn't...another tort doe who doesn't look it but is 'genetically' tort none the less!!!
Anyway I've used dark greys with blacks and yellows, to get torts, but I have no idea at all with the other shades of grey!
Use him on one of the goldens and see what pops out. You may get all goldens but most goldens carry a lot of recessives so you may well get something nice. At least that way you know the young are carrying the grey gene so you can work with that to produce more greys if that was what you wanted. Then you could put those to your torts to try for grey tort!
If you use the yellow/black buck, if he is yellow/black, on any colour other than cream you will get umbrous torts which are quite nice. Also yellow torts which are gorgeous especially with white.
Keep cream out of your black and tort lines.
I have no idea if you can grey with cream though.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

That sounds great, thanks:2thumb: I'm hoping to keep all 4 babies from this litter as they are so different & could get better as they mature:flrt:

Another litter due tomorrow...All go here :lol2:

Will get up-to-date pictures of the babies again soon...Think some might be longhaired...Esp the Yellow/Black:mf_dribble:

Thanks for all the help : victory:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I have a beautiful yellow/black longhaired buck who is 7 weeks now but he only has three legs....poor sod.

His Mum got a bit hungry but only ate his foot off.
His 'leg' is inside the skin now so he looks to have three legs but can get around no problem. He climbs the bars and everything.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Ah bless him!! Good to know he's getting around Ok...Sounds like nothing could stop him!


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Well ''Bambi'' had her litter today. Between 9am & 1pm as I've just checked her, after checking this morning  Will know how many next week!


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Congrats 

Got to have a better look at my triplets today, 3 black eyed whites.
Boo-tiful little snowballs - mini polar bears like mum. 
REALLY hoping one is a girl swear I saw nipple lines on one but after looking today am not much wiser, they're rather fluffy but shouldn't think they'll turn out longhaired as don't think dad carries.
:flrt:

Will add a photo when photobucket lets me !! 

Here they are:










My hairless carrier x hairless carrier mouse litter was bit of a flump. None looking hairless. A couple of nice banded girls in there though:










Fingers crossed my Tort. Dom. Spot lady will be giving me a litter soon too. After a nice black Dom. Spot / Tort. girl from her (She should carry Black) 

She's a proper stunner... 



















Bit of a baby boom here at the minute - 
usually only have one litter at a time....lol


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I'd use the naked mice does back to Dad then you'll get more nakeds.
I dont' have any at the moment.Just moved all the mice into perfecto's and tanks.

I had a lovely Ds doe just like yours. She is the Grandma to the litter I have here.
I bred her, sold her, then got her back with her son. I used her son on the grey tort girl and got some super duper babies.: victory:: victory:

Pics in a bit...well at least a few days. Born on the 7/9.


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Myth - You've certainly got some boo-tiful snowballs :flrt: Adorable!!
Stunning mice too :mf_dribble: My PEW babies started to open their eyes today. Was holding the little one with one eye open & he nipped my little finger :lol2: Bless him...Trying to eat my fingers with his iccle teefs! They are sooo adorable! All 3 adults were enjoying some baby food puree in a bowl & a little baby was feeding off the mother @ the same time... :lol2:
Cant find a word to describe that hamster though:gasp: Never thought I'd see one that ''different'' & unique!! She's stunning!!:no1:

Saxon - Super Duper babies!? :gasp::mf_dribble: Think we need pictures when they are ok to be taken :whistling2:

Oh...Mummy was eating her veggies and never covered the nest...Saw at least 10 little heads :gasp: Its her first litter too!!

Bye for now ...More pictures of the ''Fantastic Four'' tomorrow :2thumb::lol2:


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## Moonshine (Sep 27, 2009)

Make that 12 babies! Got another quick look last night...She's being a brilliant mum!


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