# Mack Snow x High Yellow?



## Triangulum

Sorry, Leo genetics Again.
What Would You Get?

I Know The General Punit Square.
But Some Are Co Dominant Etc. And I Though A Snow Was One Of Them!

Thanks


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## Young_Gun

Mack snows and normals, hi-yellows.


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## Triangulum

Yeah, I thought nuffin like a cross of snow.

Thanks Mate.


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## Young_Gun

Breed snow babies back to either parent and get Supers.


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## Ally

The main thing is, this is breeding one gecko that has been bred to show very little colour to a gecko that has been bred to show very high colour - you risk getting poor examples of either type in the babies.
too-yellow macks and not-yellow-enough hypos...


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## Nienna

Which is why so many mack snows look essentially like light normals that can only be told apart by what colour they are at birth.

The others are right about what you would get though:
50% Mack Snow
50% Normals who may show enhanced yellow/reduced spotting.


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## arkreptiles

High Yellows are polygenic, that is to so bred specifically for colour through line breeding and are essentially 'normals'. A Mack Snow is an incompletly dominant trait so as said above you would expect an out come of 50% Mack Snows and 50% normal/high yellow.

My advice would be to put the Mack Snow offspring together and you have a 25% of Super Snows (i.e. without any yellow).

Hope that helps


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## labmad

Young_Gun said:


> Breed snow babies back to either parent and get Supers.


I am trying to learn about genetics too so apologies for my incompetance :lol2: but, if you breed a baby back to it's mother or father then is this not inter-breeding and could it result in health issues or other problems of any kind:blush:

cheers


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## rob-stl-07

labmad said:


> I am trying to learn about genetics too so apologies for my incompetance :lol2: but, if you breed a baby back to it's mother or father then is this not inter-breeding and could it result in health issues or other problems of any kind:blush:
> 
> cheers


yes but some people do it to get $$$ morphs. i, like you disagree with this. i think inter breeding is wrong, you wouldnt want to s*** your mum? so why should they?


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## Nienna

rob-stl-07 said:


> yes but some people do it to get $$$ morphs. i, like you disagree with this. i think inter breeding is wrong, you wouldnt want to s*** your mum? so why should they?


Yes but this is geckos. To be quite honest I doubt they even know "hey your my daddy". However I can see your point, prior to getting into breeding geckos I would have agreed with you. Practically however it is the best way to obtain your ultimate goal which is as you said the pretty expensive morphs. That said I also do my best to keep inbreeding to a minimum by having for example, 3 mack snows in a breeding group of which I would breed the resulting offspring from the two females together, meaning that the babies would only be half siblings. Unless it was more beneficial to breed a daughter back to her father which I would not hesitate to do.

As for the original question of inbreeding:

Whilst its true that yes breeding an offspring back to its parents is inbreeding, in geckos its ok as long as you outcross and get new blood every 3rd generation.

For example

1st gen: breed male gecko A to female gecko B
2nd gen: breed male gecko A to baby female gecko C 
3rd gen: breed baby girl C to male gecko D (a new gecko totally unrelated)

This amount of inbreeding, ie ONE generation of babies back to their parents would not hurt the resulting offspring at all. However if you were to breed the next generation of babies back to the original "babies", thats where problems could arise.

Hope this helps.


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## labmad

So, if you want to get a 'SUPER' of something, do this mean you have to breed babies back to their mother or father?

I am wanting to start breeding sometime in the near future so just wanting to get my head round the whole genetics thingy


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## Ssthisto

You don't HAVE to.

If you bought a Mack snow from Nienna (whose Mack female is from Welsh Gecko) and then bought a Mack snow from, say, PSGeckos, those two Mack snows would not necessarily have recent common ancestry.

But they'd STILL produce Super Snows, because they have the Mack Snow gene.

I'm also going to quote something that Toyah has said about inbreeding, as she's said it much better than I could:



toyah said:


> There was a thread about this a couple of days ago, so i am just going to paste in my post from the past thread:
> 
> Inbreeding does not cause deformities or genetic problems - but it can bring to the surface genetic problems that are carried by the parent snakes. So if you buy a healthy snake from an inbreeding, then statistically, that snake is LESS likely to hide any genetic abnormalities then a snake from an outcross (unrelated parents).
> 
> Remember as well things like feeding response, size, fertility, etc, are all also partially governed by genetics. If you inbreed on a pair of snakes that are big, strong snakes with great feeding responses, then you're more likely to produce more of the same. But if you inbreed on weak runty snakes that don't feed well, then you'll most likely get more of those instead.
> 
> Inbreeding is a great tool to use responsibly to produce good quality animals - it just needs, as any breeding does, thought and care put into the matings you're doing to ensure you get the best offspring possible from it


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## labmad

Ssthisto said:


> You don't HAVE to.
> 
> If you bought a Mack snow from Nienna (whose Mack female is from Welsh Gecko) and then bought a Mack snow from, say, PSGeckos, those two Mack snows would not necessarily have recent common ancestry.
> 
> But they'd STILL produce Super Snows, because they have the Mack Snow gene.


Cheers Ssthisto - that's easy enough for me to follow .......holy s**t the whole genetics thing is a real mind bender :crazy:

ONE day, but one day I will crack it :lol2:...........and probably drawing my chuffing pension too:rotfl:

cheers


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## Young_Gun

I would outcross every 3rd gen for things like leos, but people breed related animals back all the time, a lot of the time without even knowing it, for example all albino ball pythons (apart from a WC male CPR got in recently) I 'think' are from Bob Clark, meaning all albino royal pythons in the world are 'related', they could have been outcrossed etc but if you trace them back then it will take you back to Bob Clark's snakes.


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## purejurrasic

To be honest, a great percentage of the worlds 'designer' morphs are related, as many come from ron trempers original stocks of wc.

Of course he out crosses to avoid any problems and hence we currently have good strong stocks.

I did read somewhere, not sure where that leos had been inbred for 30 generations with out any signs of problems, but i wouldnt recomend that, 3 as above, is my safty net !


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## fazzer

*Super snow to high yellow*

Hi just out of interest , as I'm not clued up on genetics ( yet) 
What would the outcome be of a x between a supersnow and a high yellow ? All the best Chris


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