# Self Sufficient Thread including rearing your own animals for meat



## bosshogg

seems to crop up quite a bit so thought it was time for a thread were we can all chat about rearing or own animals for food, veg plots, home brew, anything really

as I said in other thread we are in the process of getting a new house sorted, where we will have 2.5 acres to play with, rich will need his growing on ponds at the bottom end for his cold water fish business, but that leaves me an acrea and half to do what i want with

cant wait I will be able raise most of the meat we eat ourself and grow our own veggies and fruit.

would love to know what you all raise yourself and see pics


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## Pimperella

Yay!!!!!!!!!!

Fantastic!

Believe it or not some of my Chickens have started laying this week! I wasn't expecting them to start laying til the end of the month. 
My daughter's Japanese Bantams (She has 3 Black Tailed White hens, 2 we bought her and 1 we hatched begining of last year.) They have laid 8 eggs this week which is a lot for this time of the year and the youngest hasn't started laying yet lol

Got a lot to sort out for this here. Need to buy 4 or 5 more childrens play houses to make into the new bantam breeding pens. Far easier to clean and bigger. Going to have long runs the same height as the shed, again to make it easy to clean.

New Aviaries need building as we brought all the birds indoors for the winter and the old one is damaged due to very bad weather and to be honest it was very cheap lol but did it's job last summer. So we are looking at building a long one which has 3 sides and roof all solid and 1/3 panel, 2/3 mesh fronts. So hubby can have his breeding flocks of Zebra Finches and me my lovely Barbary doves. Far far to cold for them out side so in a parrot cage in the front room lol Lovely sound to wake up to tho.

Still sticking with Poultry for now but we have plans for a couple of veg beds this year. Would love to get a small poly tunnel. That would be bliss and have been looking at a few online with view to buy one.

We have 2 compost bins in place. Can't really do more at present.
but top tip

Advertise your Poultry Manure on Freecycle!!!
Aswell as rabbit manure.
We get around 15 to 30 bags a week, depending if it's been house cleans or full run clearing.
I get loads of emails for it. Everyone how has been, i still expect to only take a few bags but get some take all 30 with view to more lol Landscape gardeners, other veg growers and even some price flower growers and exhibitors.

My father-in-law said I should be selling it but to be honest with how much we get and not having space to store till sold, it's far easier to clean and have it gone the same day.


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## 2manydogs

well the dog dug the strawberries and most the herbs up :devil:

the toms been hit by blight 2 summers running,
so im just going to use what seeds ive got left up in planters and pots scattered round the garden :2thumb:

how many people on here go foraging as well?


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## Shell195

At our sanctuary we have a lot of chickens ,ducks and geese. Is there a magic answer to keeping the water unfrozen as at the minute we are doing 2 hourly water replacement.
Our chickens have started to lay again as well


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## leggy

people used to put tennis balls in ponds dont suppose it would work in your set up :blush:


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## LoveForLizards

I know many farmers use mollases in the water for livestock, not sure how that'd fare with poultry though?


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## Schip

I live in a small 2 up 2 down terrace with a cellar and a 30 x 12 veg patch, greenhouse and chicken shed/aviary at the bottom - had to find a decent use for the old privvy lol.

My garden ajoins friends at the bottom, there is a gate but only used to keep the dogs apart when the girls are inseason. On her plot WE have apples, blackberriers, yellow raspberries, rosehips, red and white currants in the borders the rest is lawn for the dogs.

In the greenhouse last year there was toms, melons, aubergines, peppers and cucumber. My little plot has rhubarb and strawberry beds, the rest gets planted with pots, corn, salad veg, carrots, parsnips, beetroots, a variety of peas and beans, cauli's, broccoli, cabbages, celariac, garlic whatever we fancy eating goes in there. 

All the cuttings etc get split between composters, wormery and chickens, my little area feeds about a dozen folk between eggs, veg and the occassional cull when chickens are past laying. I'd love more space and livestock but with my disability it would be unrealistic its one thing my friend sorting the dogs, chickens and rodents out when I'm sick another asking her to sort pigs, goats and dexters lol.


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## bosshogg

@pimp - on the forum I use for Self Suf someone has made there own polly tunnel and only cost them £70 odd will send you the link! my CC are not laying yet but there not known for been the best layers, the chooks down the farm are laying 

@2manydogs - I forage mainly for fruits e.g blackberries, sloes, damsons but I i do have a spot for wild garlic :2thumb: I dont eat mushrooms so dont bother with them 

I am really looking forward to having a spot were the fruit trees can be planted in an orchard, and were I can have a veg spot were the dogs cant get to it!! 

I have just started of some sloe gine, damson gin, damson brandy and sloe brandy :mf_dribble:


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## Ally

I'm hopefully going to start making more stuff again now christmas is over, my massive box of jams and pickles is looking a bit empty after all the pressies! 
I generally pick wild stuffs as we rent so I can only do so much with the garden, my mission this year is to get better on the mushrooms. We found a brilliant wood for blewits and ceps last year, I've only ever done autumn mushrooms, so I need t learn my spring and summer ones.
Looking forward to a productive year really, using bits and bobs from our amazing local farm shop and my parents garden - they have lots.
I'm also mildly obsessesd with cherries so I'm looking forward to preserving some this summer and seeing how that goes.


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## vonnie

I'm going to love this thread :2thumb:

I used to have a fantastic fruit and veg garden at the last house with lots of raised beds the OH made. I haven't done much at all here because of the amount of time I've been putting into building up my business, so half the garden belongs to the poultry and on the other half I've just had a few pots of herbs and growbags on the patio.

I'd love to do more but realistically we're hoping to move to somewhere with a bit of land as soon as we find somewhere so no point planting anything like fruit.

Your new place sound just what we're after! So difficult to find anything for sale around here though. And so many people looking! I did find somewhere a few months ago, but at only half an acre I know it's not enough and I don't want to be moving again.

We've gone homebrew mad this year. I bought the OH lots of brewing stuff for xmas and we've got beer and wine on the go already. Plus the blueberry gin and vodka I posted about a few months ago is lush! So lots of plans for hedgerow beers and wines, and I love preserving too.

I love foraging for mushrooms, but I'm not confident enough yet in my identification skills to actually eat anything I find :lol2:


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## Ally

I also have loads of last year elderberries in the freezer, need to steal my housemates mums recipe for elderberry wine!
I've not tried making anything alcoholic yet (excpet slow vodka, but putting stuff in alcohol that's already made hardly counts!)


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## bosshogg

Ally said:


> I also have loads of last year elderberries in the freezer, need to steal my housemates mums recipe for elderberry wine!
> I've not tried making anything alcoholic yet (excpet slow vodka, but putting stuff in alcohol that's already made hardly counts!)


I made elderberrie wine this year I didn't realise you were supposed to leave it fr a year or two to settle nearly killed friend lol


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## diamondlil

I've got no room to grow stuff, so just a couple of pots or growbags with peppers, toms and french beans or courgettes here, but I do love foraging. Wild plums, apples, blackberries and damsons this year, a bumper crop of yellow plums in particular made into jams, pies and ice-cream!


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## Ally

bosshogg said:


> I made elderberrie wine this year I didn't realise you were supposed to leave it fr a year or two to settle nearly killed friend lol


*note to self - don't kill friends with the elderberry wine*


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## x Sarah x

Pimperella said:


> Advertise your Poultry Manure on Freecycle!!!
> Aswell as rabbit manure.
> We get around 15 to 30 bags a week, depending if it's been house cleans or full run clearing.
> I get loads of emails for it. Everyone how has been, i still expect to only take a few bags but get some take all 30 with view to more lol Landscape gardeners, other veg growers and even some price flower growers and exhibitors.



How do you separate the droppings from the rest of the substrate?

Be interested to know with birds anyway, but also i have 2 rabbits who produce enough of the stuff alone and with 7 babies growing by the day i'll soon have lots of 'waste', at the moment it gets put out with the rubbish but would be nice to contribute to the gardening world, even if it is poop :lol2:


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## fenwoman

Shell195 said:


> At our sanctuary we have a lot of chickens ,ducks and geese. Is there a magic answer to keeping the water unfrozen as at the minute we are doing 2 hourly water replacement.
> Our chickens have started to lay again as well


 Sadly no answer to frozen water shell. Decades experience has shown me to change from the normal poultry drinker, to a stainless steel dog bowl. At least I can upturn it and knock the ice out of it and refill it. In this weather I also feed a wet mash made from layers meal plus barley meal, to which I add rolled oats and a little cod liver oil. Mix with warm water to the consistancy of mashed potato. This ensures that they get a good portion of their liquid intake, in the one feed so anything else is a bonus. The oats and barley meal are 'heating' so help keep them warm and the cod liver oil is almost pure vitamin D so makes up for the lack of sunshine on their backs.
I tend to blend my own poultry feed from straights in any case so that I can alter it depending on weather, temperature, whether a flock is laying or breeding or not etc.


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## fenwoman

Schip said:


> I live in a small 2 up 2 down terrace with a cellar and a 30 x 12 veg patch, greenhouse and chicken shed/aviary at the bottom - had to find a decent use for the old privvy lol.
> 
> My garden ajoins friends at the bottom, there is a gate but only used to keep the dogs apart when the girls are inseason. On her plot WE have apples, blackberriers, yellow raspberries, rosehips, red and white currants in the borders the rest is lawn for the dogs.
> 
> In the greenhouse last year there was toms, melons, aubergines, peppers and cucumber. My little plot has rhubarb and strawberry beds, the rest gets planted with pots, corn, salad veg, carrots, parsnips, beetroots, a variety of peas and beans, cauli's, broccoli, cabbages, celariac, garlic whatever we fancy eating goes in there.
> 
> All the cuttings etc get split between composters, wormery and chickens, my little area feeds about a dozen folk between eggs, veg and the occassional cull when chickens are past laying. I'd love more space and livestock but with my disability it would be unrealistic its one thing my friend sorting the dogs, chickens and rodents out when I'm sick another asking her to sort pigs, goats and dexters lol.


Has the privy got a flat roof? If so, put tubs of strawberries up there. Perfect to get all the sun, too high for slugs and the chickens can't get them.


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## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> @pimp - on the forum I use for Self Suf someone has made there own polly tunnel and only cost them £70 odd will send you the link!


I wonder if that was me? I made my own for around that price and put photos on a smallholding forum to show it off.


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## fenwoman

Fenny's top self sufficiency tips.
Buy at least one large chest freezer. Useful to store surpluses. Even if you are keen to make jams, tarts and bottle those surplus plums, you might not have the time so freeze them and use them when you do have spare time.

Get some car tyres. They can be used for a myriad purposes. Hang on a wall and fill the bottom half with soil to make a planter to grow flowers, tumbler tomatoes or salad crops in out of reach of slugs and snails.Or stack 4 on top of each other, put a black bin bag inside and you have an instant temporary water butt.
Or use stacks to grow spuds in. No earthing up, bliss.

If you have an electrical appliance which has broken, cut off the cable, then strip back to the copper wire. Lay a circle of copper wire around plants or twist around plant pots to prevent slugs crossing. Apparently it gives them a shock in their little sluggy tummies.

Never ever throw away timber of any sort. Find somewhere dry to make a wood pile. It can be used to make repairs, build things and even chopped for kindling.

Get yourself an old Rayburn cooker to burn logs and rubbish on. Dry your washing over it, get a stove top kettle and a metal tea pot to make tea and keep it warm all day on the stove.
Learn to make soup from any little thing you have in the fridge leftover.This can be frozen.

Instead of cooking a meal, cook a big load. So if you are having spag bol, make a massive load, then freeze several portions. Perfect ready meals.


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## fenwoman

Also, get used to looking at things differently.
I used an old broken plasltic laundry basket, lined with a black bin bag, to make a strawberry tub which would have cost about £40 had I bought one of a similar size.










and when I was given a metal locker with 3 thin sections,I laid it on its side and it became my new nest box in the henhouse.The doors are held open with baler twine attached to the bit above and forms a platform.


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## Shell195

fenwoman said:


> Sadly no answer to frozen water shell. Decades experience has shown me to change from the normal poultry drinker, to a stainless steel dog bowl. At least I can upturn it and knock the ice out of it and refill it. In this weather I also feed a wet mash made from layers meal plus barley meal, to which I add rolled oats and a little cod liver oil. Mix with warm water to the consistancy of mashed potato. This ensures that they get a good portion of their liquid intake, in the one feed so anything else is a bonus. The oats and barley meal are 'heating' so help keep them warm and the cod liver oil is almost pure vitamin D so makes up for the lack of sunshine on their backs.
> I tend to blend my own poultry feed from straights in any case so that I can alter it depending on weather, temperature, whether a flock is laying or breeding or not etc.


We already use the stainless steel dog bowls as we just cant knock the ice out of the drinkers but we will give the mash a go.:no1:


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## bosshogg

@fenwoman itwasnt on smallholding forums was a driffernt one, do you use the same username? 

and agree with freezer I have a an upright one and it is full of berries of alll kinds then a second one for animals what has rabbits, and meat for them all 

when we get moved and have more room i will have a second freezer for meat for us ducks, chickens ect 

if you have dogs grow your the tumblin tomatoes in a hanging basket :2thumb:


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## Pimperella

x Sarah x said:


> How do you separate the droppings from the rest of the substrate?
> 
> Be interested to know with birds anyway, but also i have 2 rabbits who produce enough of the stuff alone and with 7 babies growing by the day i'll soon have lots of 'waste', at the moment it gets put out with the rubbish but would be nice to contribute to the gardening world, even if it is poop :lol2:


 Erm you don't.:whistling2: Because Straw is compostable. So are wood chips/Shavings.


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## harlequin

oooh awesome thread, i've been brought up in a fairly self sufficient family. Always grown all our own fruit and veg, we have loads of fruit trees and bushes and big veggie patch  We also make sloe and damson gin, bake our own bread and make our own ice cream in summer yum! Some of my earliest memories are 'helping' my parents plant things in the veggie patch and picking in the fruit which either goes straight in the freezer or cooked. Our freezer is absolutely bursting with fruit but it all gets used eventually 
I'd love to rear some animals when im older for eggs/milk/meat etc but thats probably a bit of a dream!


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## abandonallhope

Must admit I am very tempted to get a couple of chickens and a goat/sheep or two. 

Fortuantly I have a huge back garden that could easily support a sheep or goat, not honestly too sure on the law regarding this though. I'd also need to find someone local who could slaughter and butcher, but living next door to a farm I doubt I'd have any trouble.

Mmmm, goat burgers....


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## leggy

curried goat :mf_dribble:


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## abandonallhope

leggy said:


> curried goat :mf_dribble:


Ick, goat burgers the way to go.


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## x Sarah x

Pimperella said:


> Erm you don't.:whistling2: Because Straw is compostable. So are wood chips/Shavings.


Ok, i just thought the ratio of poop to hay/straw/shavings is a little one sided, you'd be giving away 90% substrate...


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## HABU

i do miss the good old days...


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## Pimperella

x Sarah x said:


> Ok, i just thought the ratio of poop to hay/straw/shavings is a little one sided, you'd be giving away 90% substrate...


 
LOL I'm sure I'd have trading Standards banging on my door complaining that I'm ripping people of in giving it away lol
And you don't keep poultry do you? Soooo you haven't a clue how their poo goes in piles under perches either.

So really, seriously, in the polietest way. Sod off.


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## bosshogg

Does anyone keep bees I am very tempted to have a couple of hives at new house


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## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> @fenwoman itwasnt on smallholding forums was a driffernt one, do you use the same username?


 mostly I do yes. 



> and agree with freezer I have a an upright one and it is full of berries of alll kinds then a second one for animals what has rabbits, and meat for them all


 I'm lucky to have my large 18 feet long scullery so I have 3 large chest freezers along one wall. One for meat, one for veggies and the other for dairy, odds and sods and fish. The meat and the veg ones are filled with meat from my own animals or locally bought produce from the produce auction. I buy in season when a glut ensures prices are low, then I spend time processing it. Sweetcorn is the worst as I spent days boiling the cobs and cutting off the kernels before bagging and freezing. Most other stuff can be simply frozen without boiling. 



> when we get moved and have more room i will have a second freezer for meat for us ducks, chickens ect


 chest freezers are the most efficient use of space and generally cheaper than upright ones.



> if you have dogs grow your the tumblin tomatoes in a hanging basket :2thumb:


they tend to have a very odd flavour otherwise I have found :whistling2:


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## fenwoman

harlequin said:


> oooh awesome thread, i've been brought up in a fairly self sufficient family. Always grown all our own fruit and veg, we have loads of fruit trees and bushes and big veggie patch  We also make sloe and damson gin, bake our own bread and make our own ice cream in summer yum! Some of my earliest memories are 'helping' my parents plant things in the veggie patch and picking in the fruit which either goes straight in the freezer or cooked. Our freezer is absolutely bursting with fruit but it all gets used eventually
> I'd love to rear some animals when im older for eggs/milk/meat etc but thats probably a bit of a dream!


 Bottling is a great way to preserve fruit to save on freezer space and is very simple too.


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## jordkil

I do a bit myself mainly out of the plots in the garden. Have one full of all sorts of tatties, another with rhubarb and onions and one with just strawberries. I also do some foraging when Im out hunting usually things like nettle shoots, wild garlic and berries mainly something to go with the days catch for dinner. Also do a bit of trapping/snaring.


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## Stavros88

Go u guys!  The most self-sufficient my family has ever been was growing pea-pods at the bottom of the garden one summer (they were tasty  )


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## Jacs

before we moved to kent we had a veggie patch at end of garden, i was only young but remember helping mum with it all the time, we grew peas, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots and runner beans to name a few things, ooh and radishes in hanging baskets hehe. when we moved 2 deal we had a shingle garden so couldnt do anything as wernt aloud to dig it up, then we lived in a basement flat for 9 years.. now we are back in a nice house we wanted a veggie patch again, planted some beans etc and within 3 weeks my sisters bullmastiff dug up and ate everything!! so mums now given up! i do miss it tho, home grown food always tastes sooo much better!!


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## vonnie

I love the way the media suddenly wants to portray 'growing your own' as something new :lol2: 

My late father grew fruit and veg all his life, my mother baked bread and made pretty much everything from scratch - no ready meals or bought in cakes etc in our house, and my grandfather showed poultry and ran a breed club. I have so many childhood memories, and so much experience handed down that to me it would seem odd NOT to do these things !

I hate seeing new houses built where they cram so many onto a piece of land that there's no room for gardens, or even worse, houses with land selling it off as a :censor: building plot. 

This year, even though it's not worth putting in veg beds in case our dream house does actually come onto the market, I'm going to plant lots of veg in with the flowers. Need to get organised and do a seed order.

Just a thought cause I've ended up throwing away lots of part-used old packets with having a much smaller space for growing at the mo ...

would others be up for doing a bit of a seed swap on here ?


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## Stavros88

bosshogg said:


> Does anyone keep bees


My father was a beekeeper, and his father before him was a beekeeper. I want to follow in their footsteps, and their footsteps go:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!! I'M COVERED IN BEES!!!!!


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## fenwoman

jordkil said:


> I do a bit myself mainly out of the plots in the garden. Have one full of all sorts of tatties, another with rhubarb and onions and one with just strawberries. I also do some foraging when Im out hunting usually things like nettle shoots, wild garlic and berries mainly something to go with the days catch for dinner. Also do a bit of trapping/snaring.


Snaring is the one thing I hate and abhor next to poisoning. I just wish snares were illegal as gin traps are. They kill indiscriminately. I once lost a cat for 5 days, on the 5th day, I heard a very faint 'mew' from up in the big willow tree by my house.When I looked up, there was my cat with a snmare around her middle. She'd felt it tighten and pulled the stake out of the ground in her panic to escape the thing which had grabbed her, then ran home and up the tree. God only knows how long she'd been trapped, how long her struggles had taken her to get the stake out but she was hanging upside down by the snare, with the stake trapped in a fork of the tree. I flew up the tree to her and found to my horror that the blood supply had been cut off and she was paralysed from the waist back.
Had I found out who had laid a snare, I would have inserted the stake like a suppository. They are vile awful things, as are the people who set them. Shame on you :bash::bash::bash:


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## fenwoman

Jacs said:


> before we moved to kent we had a veggie patch at end of garden, i was only young but remember helping mum with it all the time, we grew peas, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots and runner beans to name a few things, ooh and radishes in hanging baskets hehe. when we moved 2 deal we had a shingle garden so couldnt do anything as wernt aloud to dig it up, then we lived in a basement flat for 9 years.. now we are back in a nice house we wanted a veggie patch again, planted some beans etc and within 3 weeks my sisters bullmastiff dug up and ate everything!! so mums now given up! i do miss it tho, home grown food always tastes sooo much better!!


 Could I point out that even in a shingle garden you can grow plenty. When I lived in Lancashire and had a small concrete back yard, I grew apples, blackberries, tomatoes etc in containers. In theory, I could have had meat rabbits in a big hutch and a couple of chickens too.
Just in case anyone is reading and thinks that unless they have a big garden, they can't grow their own food. Even on a balcony you can do plenty.


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## 2manydogs

even if its a window sill in a flat you can grow chillies, herbs and cut again salad leaves like lambs lettuce.


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## HABU

we made our own soap as a kid...

... i got nothing right?


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## 2manydogs

fenwoman said:


> Snaring is the one thing I hate and abhor next to poisoning. I just wish snares were illegal as gin traps are. They kill indiscriminately. I once lost a cat for 5 days, on the 5th day, I heard a very faint 'mew' from up in the big willow tree by my house.When I looked up, there was my cat with a snmare around her middle. She'd felt it tighten and pulled the stake out of the ground in her panic to escape the thing which had grabbed her, then ran home and up the tree. God only knows how long she'd been trapped, how long her struggles had taken her to get the stake out but she was hanging upside down by the snare, with the stake trapped in a fork of the tree. I flew up the tree to her and found to my horror that the blood supply had been cut off and she was paralysed from the waist back.
> Had I found out who had laid a snare, I would have inserted the stake like a suppository. They are vile awful things, as are the people who set them. Shame on you :bash::bash::bash:


thats why everyone should use cage traps that way you can release non target species.


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## bosshogg

2manydogs said:


> thats why everyone should use cage traps that way you can release non target species.


I used to snare as child but we lived in the highlands of scotland with no neighbours for miles, now I use rifle/shot gun


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## mustang100893

Unhappy with the thread, it's making me yearn for a nice country farm somewhere with chickens and pigs and a big plot of land to play with, love it though nice to see what people are doing, would love some chickens, we were going to get some last year but parents had to put money into something else, this year though maybe, just nagged my Mum to get some .


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## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> I used to snare as child but we lived in the highlands of scotland with no neighbours for miles, now I use rifle/shot gun


 If I buy wild rabbit, I'll only buy ferreted or lamped. Both are quick deaths, or should be quick deaths. Sadly too many people who set snares, don't check them often enough and IMO once every 24 hours just isn't enough.Even if they are set away from pets, they are indiscriminate and something set for a rabbit could easily catch a pine marten or wild cat.
The only problem with the shotgun is that you end up breaking your teeth on the shot :lol2:


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## Jacs

fenwoman said:


> Could I point out that even in a shingle garden you can grow plenty. When I lived in Lancashire and had a small concrete back yard, I grew apples, blackberries, tomatoes etc in containers. In theory, I could have had meat rabbits in a big hutch and a couple of chickens too.
> Just in case anyone is reading and thinks that unless they have a big garden, they can't grow their own food. Even on a balcony you can do plenty.


oh yea i know you can... when we lived in that house i waas still young so didnt get a say. i think mum "gave up" because she missed her veggie patch and i seem to remember she was never very successful when trying to grow fruit or veggies in pots altho i could be wrong was a fair while back now. we are still trying to work round a way to grow some stuff in our garden so the dogs cant get to it! and we have always grown our own herbs if not in the garden then in little pots on the kitchin winowsill! its lovley, nothing beats the smell of basil wafting through the house when the window is open :2thumb: oooh and chillies... we planted the seeds of 1 chilli and had TONNES of little chilli plants come up! i think they are the eaisest thing i have EVER grown! and we always get more chillis than we can use hehe.


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## fenwoman

Jacs said:


> oh yea i know you can... when we lived in that house i waas still young so didnt get a say. i think mum "gave up" because she missed her veggie patch and i seem to remember she was never very successful when trying to grow fruit or veggies in pots altho i could be wrong was a fair while back now. we are still trying to work round a way to grow some stuff in our garden so the dogs cant get to it! and we have always grown our own herbs if not in the garden then in little pots on the kitchin winowsill! its lovley, nothing beats the smell of basil wafting through the house when the window is open :2thumb:


 If your dogs are an issue you can either make a raised bed, or fence off a small area. Think vertical. Put containers and baskets on the wall of your house to grow salad crops in. Fruit trees and bushes shouldn't come to any harm from dogs. Even normal veggies can be grown in containers. Nothing fancy required , just a stack of 4 old car tyres with soil in, would grow you some carrots or cabbages. I grow potatoes in car tyres. You put the first one down with soil in. Place 5 seed potatoes in the soil, put another tyre on top and fill with soil. Whenever you see green shoots poking through the soil, place another tyre on top and cover the shoots with soil. When you have a stack 4 high, let the spuds grow away. Then when you get to harvest them the whole stack will be full of spuds top to bottom.
Old laundry baskets, apple crates from the greengrocer, cardboard boxes with a bin liner in, almost anything can be used to grow stuff in.


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## LiamRatSnake

We have our hens for eggs (thanks to Fenwoman and Pimp' for all their advice, and fen, I can't find a Katie Theare book, I've got 6 now and not one is by her) and grow the odd few things, herbs (thyme, lemon thyme, parsley, chives, dill, corriander, [black] basil, mint ect) a few potatoes, radishes, strawberries, beans, peas, tomatos, lettuce, courgette, rocket and other salady things...
I'm looking into raising some meat chickens (if I can find/make the space), maybe a nice dual purpose breed so the hens can go into the laying flock and the cocks into the pot.The OH wants goats but we definitely don't have the space as of yet.


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## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> We have our hens for eggs (thanks to Fenwoman and Pimp' for all their advice, and fen, I can't find a Katie Theare book, I've got 6 now and not one is by her) and grow the odd few things, herbs (thyme, lemon thyme, parsley, chives, dill, corriander, [black] basil, mint ect) a few potatoes, radishes, strawberries, beans, peas, tomatos, lettuce, courgette, rocket and other salady things...
> I'm looking into raising some meat chickens (if I can find/make the space), maybe a nice dual purpose breed so the hens can go into the laying flock and the cocks into the pot.The OH wants goats but we definitely don't have the space as of yet.


 
If you don't think you can keep a cock full time, let me know, I may have a good dual purpose boy you can borrow for a week or so to get fertile eggs from your layers to rear on as meat and laying birds.


----------



## HABU

mustang100893 said:


> Unhappy with the thread, it's making me yearn for a nice country farm somewhere with chickens and pigs and a big plot of land to play with, love it though nice to see what people are doing, would love some chickens, we were going to get some last year but parents had to put money into something else, this year though maybe, just nagged my Mum to get some .


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> If you don't think you can keep a cock full time, let me know, I may have a good dual purpose boy you can borrow for a week or so to get fertile eggs from your layers to rear on as meat and laying birds.


Thanks Laura, but the hybrid's offspring would make terrible meat birds lol I may take you up on that if I add to my flock any time soon though.
Plus, the lazy buggers haven't bothered to squeeze out an egg for me yet and they're 22+ weeks. They've layed me about 3 tonnes of s*** so far though, so thats nice of them.

I forgot to say, Verm-x are giving away a free "Eggs for sale" sign if anyone's interested, it comes with free samples, I got cat ones, rabbit ones, dog ones, poultry tonic ect. Not bad for free  Plues they're sending out a voucher too if you order the free sign.


----------



## Jacs

fenwoman said:


> If your dogs are an issue you can either make a raised bed, or fence off a small area. Think vertical. Put containers and baskets on the wall of your house to grow salad crops in. Fruit trees and bushes shouldn't come to any harm from dogs. Even normal veggies can be grown in containers. Nothing fancy required , just a stack of 4 old car tyres with soil in, would grow you some carrots or cabbages. I grow potatoes in car tyres. You put the first one down with soil in. Place 5 seed potatoes in the soil, put another tyre on top and fill with soil. Whenever you see green shoots poking through the soil, place another tyre on top and cover the shoots with soil. When you have a stack 4 high, let the spuds grow away. Then when you get to harvest them the whole stack will be full of spuds top to bottom.
> Old laundry baskets, apple crates from the greengrocer, cardboard boxes with a bin liner in, almost anything can be used to grow stuff in.


problem being anything would have to be really tall, my sisters bullmastiff is the main culprit for digging up and eating stuff we plant and i have to admit its pretty amaing how high she can get when she really wants something... i think it would be a case of totally fencing an area off which im not sure our landlord would allow us to do!


----------



## bosshogg

Jacs said:


> problem being anything would have to be really tall, my sisters bullmastiff is the main culprit for digging up and eating stuff we plant and i have to admit its pretty amaing how high she can get when she really wants something... i think it would be a case of totally fencing an area off which im not sure our landlord would allow us to do!


hanging baskets!! i grow herbs in hanging baskets, tomatoes, strawberries


----------



## bosshogg

just planted some mixed leafs lettuces in my seed trays i grow them inside to feed the beardies and roaches costs 38p for a value pack of seeds bargain :2thumb:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> If your dogs are an issue you can either make a raised bed, or fence off a small area. Think vertical. Put containers and baskets on the wall of your house to grow salad crops in. Fruit trees and bushes shouldn't come to any harm from dogs. Even normal veggies can be grown in containers. Nothing fancy required , just a stack of 4 old car tyres with soil in, would grow you some carrots or cabbages. I grow potatoes in car tyres. You put the first one down with soil in. Place 5 seed potatoes in the soil, put another tyre on top and fill with soil. Whenever you see green shoots poking through the soil, place another tyre on top and cover the shoots with soil. When you have a stack 4 high, let the spuds grow away. Then when you get to harvest them the whole stack will be full of spuds top to bottom.
> Old laundry baskets, apple crates from the greengrocer, cardboard boxes with a bin liner in, almost anything can be used to grow stuff in.


That's a brill idea. I know what I'll be doing in a few months, we've just changed our tires and they're sitting in the garden not doing anything


----------



## vonnie

Thanks for the Verm-X tip Liam. I've just ordered my sign and they're actually quite nice little signs too.

Need to get a few more legbars this year I think. I've only the one girl left now and everyone wants her eggs not the boring white ones!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> Thanks for the Verm-X tip Liam. I've just ordered my sign and they're actually quite nice little signs too.
> 
> Need to get a few more legbars this year I think. I've only the one girl left now and everyone wants her eggs not the boring white ones!


Make sure you say what other pets you have, you get loads of samples  Could you make my girls start laying please?
Legbars are the ones with blue eggs right? Autosexing breed. I like them, what's their temperament like?


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Make sure you say what other pets you have, you get loads of samples  Could you make my girls start laying please?
> Legbars are the ones with blue eggs right? Autosexing breed. I like them, what's their temperament like?


 
Legbars are fab! I need to get 10 pol Legbars this year and a new cockeral.


----------



## bosshogg

vonnie said:


> Thanks for the Verm-X tip Liam. I've just ordered my sign and they're actually quite nice little signs too.
> 
> Need to get a few more legbars this year I think. I've only the one girl left now and everyone wants her eggs not the boring white ones!


I have a trio of crested cream legbars just wish they were more reliable egg layers lol will get some more though great birds


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Legbars are fab! I need to get 10 pol Legbars this year and a new cockeral.


It must cost you a bloody fortune to feed your lot.
I went through middleton earlier and spotted a field full of guinea fowl, just down the road from you. How do the neighbours cope with the cockerals cos they're quite close?

I'd love a cock biurd, but the neighbours would go mad.


----------



## vonnie

I always thought I couldn't get a cockeral because of the noise. More because OH works shifts really, not bothered about annoying the neighbours :lol2:

But then a couple of other houses got them, in fact one stupidly got two which meant that the least dominant one was chased away and adopted my girls instead. We called him Erol and he was a stunner. He'd never stay over, but when I let the hens out first thing he was always there waiting to jump them!

The neighbours suddenly put the house on the market and left, and I don't know what happened to their birds. Just disappeared overnight. I was really upset as I'd have taken him in. 

So after that we just went ahead and got a cock. And the noise never, ever bothers me, even in the Summer sleeping with the windows open. I jsut think it's a lovely sound to wake up to.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> I always thought I couldn't get a cockeral because of the noise. More because OH works shifts really, not bothered about annoying the neighbours :lol2:
> 
> But then a couple of other houses got them, in fact one stupidly got two which meant that the least dominant one was chased away and adopted my girls instead. We called him Erol and he was a stunner. He'd never stay over, but when I let the hens out first thing he was always there waiting to jump them!
> 
> The neighbours suddenly put the house on the market and left, and I don't know what happened to their birds. Just disappeared overnight. I was really upset as I'd have taken him in.
> 
> So after that we just went ahead and got a cock. And the noise never, ever bothers me, even in the Summer sleeping with the windows open. I jsut think it's a lovely sound to wake up to.


I do too. The chooks are far away from the neighbours, but the whole neighbourhood would hear a cock crowing! I'd really like one though, they look so elegant scratching around with a harem of hens following him.


----------



## bosshogg

I have a cockreal I put him a carrier case with food and water and into the garage on a night when i got to bed then first thing inthe morning about 7am i put him back out and there he stays, during winter he doesn't make a peep


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Can anyone advise me what dual purpose breeds make good roasting birds? Things like Rhode Island, Sussex ect? Or are crosses better? Say, Sussex/Ixworth? Any breeds good to roast before they start to crow?
I'm confident I could do the deed myself and dress the birds.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> I have a cockreal I put him a carrier case with food and water and into the garage on a night when i got to bed then first thing inthe morning about 7am i put him back out and there he stays, during winter he doesn't make a peep


But does he not crow all day long in the summer?


----------



## bosshogg

no mainly first thing when i put him out and again about 3pm he does crow once or twice in between but its not like he just stands there crowing cos if he did he would be dead from not eating and drinking :lol2:


----------



## HABU

i want to raise hogs one day...


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> no mainly first thing when i put him out and again about 3pm he does crow once or twice in between but its not like he just stands there crowing cos if he did he would be dead from not eating and drinking :lol2:


lol. If I was more remote it would be ideal, I love the sound first thing.


HABU said:


> i want to raise hogs one day...


I want pigs for meat one day. Everything is "one day" at the moment lol


----------



## bosshogg

i'm not remote (at momeent) i hav horses all around me I live in a village: victory:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> i'm not remote (at momeent) i hav horses all around me I live in a village: victory:


You're supposed to hear chickeny noises in a village, not in Manchester lol


----------



## vonnie

I can't speak from experience as I've been veggie for the last 21 years lol but I can recommend faverolles as a more unusual dual purpose breed.

I'm a bit biased as I grew up around them, but I think they were actually developed originally as a meat bird. My hens have always been good layers too, and they're very placid and tame too.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> I can't speak from experience as I've been veggie for the last 21 years lol but I can recommend faverolles as a more unusual dual purpose breed.
> 
> I'm a bit biased as I grew up around them, but I think they were actually developed originally as a meat bird. My hens have always been good layers too, and they're very placid and tame too.


Are they the ones with the very feathery necks, normally in pinky/brown and white? They're nice birds, one I haven't looked into yet.
I forgot to mention, are they prone to bullying?


----------



## bosshogg

didnt mean horses btw meant houses ha ha a


----------



## HABU

LiamRatSnake said:


> lol. If I was more remote it would be ideal, I love the sound first thing.
> 
> I want pigs for meat one day. Everything is "one day" at the moment lol


 
just stay the course... you'll always get to your destination if you stay the course. there isn't any time limit... it all can fall together one day if you just keep plodding along in the right general direction.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> didnt mean horses btw meant houses ha ha a


I didn't even notice lol Read it as houses.


HABU said:


> just stay the course... you'll always get to your destination if you stay the course. their isn't any time limit... it all can fall together one day if you just keep plodding along in the right general direction.


Lets hope so


----------



## Mirf

I'm definately getting the garden sorted for next year, even if it's only getting half a dozen raised beds for my veggies (all pot grown this year).

Hope some of you guys can help me with a quick question. I would really love to get some chucks but we have a major problem with rats here. They are the main reason I don't have any yet. I live halfway up a mountain and they appear at the first whiff of food. How big a risk would they pose to the chickens? 

They are big buggers and there are LOTS of them. My other half despatched over 2 dozen adults last year which was probably about 1/10th of the number we saw....


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Mirf said:


> I'm definately getting the garden sorted for next year, even if it's only getting half a dozen raised beds for my veggies (all pot grown this year).
> 
> Hope some of you guys can help me with a quick question. I would really love to get some chucks but we have a major problem with rats here. They are the main reason I don't have any yet. I live halfway up a mountain and they appear at the first whiff of food. How big a risk would they pose to the chickens?
> 
> They are big buggers and there are LOTS of them. My other half despatched over 2 dozen adults last year which was probably about 1/10th of the number we saw....


Big risk. They will eat chook eggs, destroy the coop and have been known to kill young and adult birds alike. They would need to be controlled effectively with traps and baiting stations. Chickens attract rats I'm afraid.


----------



## Mirf

LiamRatSnake said:


> Big risk. They will eat chook eggs, destroy the coop and have been known to kill young and adult birds alike. They would need to be controlled effectively with traps and baiting stations. Chickens attract rats I'm afraid.


I had the horrible feeling you were going to say that 

Although the plan was to have a stone built coop these things have no fear at all and will happily sit munching the bird feed in the middle of the day.

They are too clever to go near the baited traps (we tried) and poison worries me as there is a lot of other wildlife in the area....not to mention my 3 dogs.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Mirf said:


> I had the horrible feeling you were going to say that
> 
> Although the plan was to have a stone built coop these things have no fear at all and will happily sit munching the bird feed in the middle of the day.
> 
> They are too clever to go near the baited traps (we tried) and poison worries me as there is a lot of other wildlife in the area....not to mention my 3 dogs.


Could you not build a run for them with some very strong mesh and something they can't burrow up from, thick concrete? There must be a way around it somehow, everyone should have chooks.


----------



## Keir64

My aunt Fiona used to be a vegetarian.. now she sometimes buys bigs/cows/lambs etc.. rears them and then kills them and eats them. I'm not against it but doesnt that go against alot of what vegetarians believe in? lol..


----------



## HABU

ultimate self sufficiency!:lol2:
kentucky style!:2thumb:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Keir64 said:


> My aunt Fiona used to be a vegetarian.. now she sometimes buys bigs/cows/lambs etc.. rears them and then kills them and eats them. I'm not against it but doesnt that go against alot of what vegetarians believe in? lol..


Not in my opinion, a lot vegetarians are against the way that meat is reared and killed. Doing it yourself, you can ensure their welfare.


----------



## HABU

we grew 'taters...


----------



## LoveForLizards

Keir64 said:


> My aunt Fiona used to be a vegetarian.. now she sometimes buys bigs/cows/lambs etc.. rears them and then kills them and eats them. I'm not against it but doesnt that go against alot of what vegetarians believe in? lol..


I'm not really vegetarian any more, but for the most part I have a vegetarian diet. For me, being a vegetarian wasn't about eating an animal, or the animal being killed, it was about how the animal lived before hand, and as we were buying mostly intensively farmed meat I never ate it. I'd love to raise my own animals for meat and would be 100% up for eating them now, but wouldn't ever support intensive farming again. It's the same for a lot of people, too many people push vegetarians into the 'fluffy tree hugger' group.


----------



## Mirf

LiamRatSnake said:


> Could you not build a run for them with some very strong mesh and something they can't burrow up from, thick concrete? There must be a way around it somehow, everyone should have chooks.


No idea, that's why I asked!!:lol2:

The area I was planning to house them in is only about 10 x 15 foot. It's the first level of the garden and 3 sides are brick walls (1 house wall, 1 retaining wall and the neighbours wall.) with a concrete base. The plan was to let them have some of the garden during the day (about 100 foot-ish)

The problem is that the rats are so bold they come to the back door snarfing for food. Would the chickens be safe free range during the day? They would be safely locked up at night.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

LoveForLizards said:


> I'm not really vegetarian any more, but for the most part I have a vegetarian diet. For me, being a vegetarian wasn't about eating an animal, or the animal being killed, it was about how the animal lived before hand, and as we were buying mostly intensively farmed meat I never ate it. I'd love to raise my own animals for meat and would be 100% up for eating them now, but wouldn't ever support intensive farming again. It's the same for a lot of people, too many people push vegetarians into the 'fluffy tree hugger' group.


A lot are though lol I would know, being vegetarian till the age of 14. Now I'd rather eat decent meat than horrid processed stuff. Ideally I'd like to raise and shoot my own, for now, we get the occasional rabbit but as of yet are unable to shoot our own, now we stick to free range poultry (where possible) and at the least, british pork, lamb, beef ect.


----------



## Ally

LoveForLizards said:


> I'm not really vegetarian any more, but for the most part I have a vegetarian diet. For me, being a vegetarian wasn't about eating an animal, or the animal being killed, it was about how the animal lived before hand, and as we were buying mostly intensively farmed meat I never ate it. I'd love to raise my own animals for meat and would be 100% up for eating them now, but wouldn't ever support intensive farming again. It's the same for a lot of people, too many people push vegetarians into the 'fluffy tree hugger' group.


I have respect for vegetarians that don't eat meat for that reason, and even more respect for people willing to do some research and either buy only local meat that they know how it's been raised or raise it themselves so they don't have to go veggi 
Other than that? The ony excuse is not liking the taste of meat, and then don't harp on about it


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Mirf said:


> No idea, that's why I asked!!:lol2:
> 
> The area I was planning to house them in is only about 10 x 15 foot. It's the first level of the garden and 3 sides are brick walls (1 house wall, 1 retaining wall and the neighbours wall.) with a concrete base. The plan was to let them have some of the garden during the day (about 100 foot-ish)
> 
> The problem is that the rats are so bold they come to the back door snarfing for food. Would the chickens be safe free range during the day? They would be safely locked up at night.


It's hard to say, chooks are normally killed at night while roosting, I'm not sure whether they'd be brave enough to attack them. Surrounded by 3 walls will make it easier to rodent proof, but when roaming they'd need access back into the run, which would allow the rats in. I'm new to this and can only go off what I've read (for more than 3 years lol) and what I learnt from when I was young with my Dad.
10x15 is a decent size for a run, just think of people putting 3 chooks in an ark or one of them horrid eglus.


----------



## HABU

snap-beans, we grew snap-beans too... green beans... sit all day snapping them for canning... bushels..

... yep.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> We have our hens for eggs (thanks to Fenwoman and Pimp' for all their advice, and fen, I can't find a Katie Theare book, I've got 6 now and not one is by her) and grow the odd few things, herbs (thyme, lemon thyme, parsley, chives, dill, corriander, [black] basil, mint ect) a few potatoes, radishes, strawberries, beans, peas, tomatos, lettuce, courgette, rocket and other salady things...
> I'm looking into raising some meat chickens (if I can find/make the space), maybe a nice dual purpose breed so the hens can go into the laying flock and the cocks into the pot.The OH wants goats but we definitely don't have the space as of yet.


 It's only the most popular book on chickens and sold all over the internet. Here's ebay
starting with chickens, Books, Comics Magazines, Home Garden items at low prices on eBay.co.uk
It's Katie Thear and not Theare so perhaps that's why you couldn't find it. It's the only good poultry book on the market.
There are plenty dual purpose fown out there and the maran is one of the best IMO. However, you have to know how to manage cockerels you want for the table. You cannot just let them run with the flock and their diet is different otherwise you'll end up with a 6 months old bird who is bloody tough and scrawny. Meat hybrids are so cheap to buy as chicks and they are ready for the table in about 12 weeks. While I eat my surplus cockerels, they are nearly awlays turned into pies or stew etc. I'm planning on getting some sasso meat birds to use as roasters. I have plenty of spare sheds I can house them in with a small outside run.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> It's only the most popular book on chickens and sold all over the internet. Here's ebay
> starting with chickens, Books, Comics Magazines, Home Garden items at low prices on eBay.co.uk
> It's Katie Thear and not Theare so perhaps that's why you couldn't find it. It's the only good poultry book on the market.
> There are plenty dual purpose fown out there and the maran is one of the best IMO. However, you have to know how to manage cockerels you want for the table. You cannot just let them run with the flock and their diet is different otherwise you'll end up with a 6 months old bird who is bloody tough and scrawny. Meat hybrids are so cheap to buy as chicks and they are ready for the table in about 12 weeks. While I eat my surplus cockerels, they are nearly awlays turned into pies or stew etc. I'm planning on getting some sasso meat birds to use as roasters. I have plenty of spare sheds I can house them in with a small outside run.


I meant in the shops, I'm unable to buy anything off the net right now. I know you can't let them run with the flock, I've done a fair bit of reading on it and asked many questions so far. I'd be much happier eating a slow growing, decent meat bird/dual purpose than a hybrid I think. The taste is much better by far.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> I meant in the shops, I'm unable to buy anything off the net right now. I know you can't let them run with the flock, I've done a fair bit of reading on it and asked many questions so far. I'd be much happier eating a slow growing, decent meat bird/dual purpose than a hybrid I think. The taste is much better by far.


 If you go into WH smith and ask them, they will order it for you.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> If you go into WH smith and ask them, they will order it for you.


I never thought of that lol The last book I was given was atrocious, although the only book I've ever seen with photos of how to kill and dress birds.


----------



## fenwoman

Mirf said:


> No idea, that's why I asked!!:lol2:
> 
> The area I was planning to house them in is only about 10 x 15 foot. It's the first level of the garden and 3 sides are brick walls (1 house wall, 1 retaining wall and the neighbours wall.) with a concrete base. The plan was to let them have some of the garden during the day (about 100 foot-ish)
> 
> The problem is that the rats are so bold they come to the back door snarfing for food. Would the chickens be safe free range during the day? They would be safely locked up at night.


 Unless their house is made of solid brick, they will not be safe from rats at night. Rats kill chickens. If you have such a bad rat problem you must start a good safe baiting regime. Rats will eat grain, chew into the henhouse and kill birds, if you have pets they are at risk of catching lepto from rats and you yourself could catch weils disease which is dangerous. I just cannot comprehend anyone having a rat problem and not dealing with it.


----------



## bosshogg

fenwoman said:


> Unless their house is made of solid brick, they will not be safe from rats at night. Rats kill chickens. If you have such a bad rat problem you must start a good safe baiting regime. Rats will eat grain, chew into the henhouse and kill birds, if you have pets they are at risk of catching lepto from rats and you yourself could catch weils disease which is dangerous. I just cannot comprehend anyone having a rat problem and not dealing with it.


were having trouble, we use poison and traps (live and fen) but the houses around us are not trying to control them, they trow loafs of bread and seed on the floor we counted 7 in one garden, so we are losing the battle to control them as they just keep bringing them i have lost two chickens and two ducks, the trio of cream legbars and the four ducks are now going to get moved till we move as I am just fed up with it, I am going through a tub of tomcat in just over week!!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> were having trouble, we use poison and traps (live and fen) but the houses around us are not trying to control them, they trow loafs of bread and seed on the floor we counted 7 in one garden, so we are losing the battle to control them as they just keep bringing them i have lost two chickens and two ducks, the trio of cream legbars and the four ducks are now going to get moved till we move as I am just fed up with it, I am going through a tub of tomcat in just over week!!


Bloody hell. Horrid things. Nothing has been near our traps and we haven't spotted anything, although the garden's quite well protected. Keeping fingers crossed and hoping prevention is better than cure. Although the birds are fed in the coop so there isn't much to attract them really, no more than before we got the chooks. The cats are pretty feral and kill anything that comes onto the property anyway.


----------



## HABU

corn. we grew corn... fried it mostly...

and them radishes...

cucumbers... lotta canning ....


hams... cured hams...


----------



## bosshogg

LiamRatSnake said:


> Bloody hell. Horrid things. Nothing has been near our traps and we haven't spotted anything, although the garden's quite well protected. Keeping fingers crossed and hoping prevention is better than cure. Although the birds are fed in the coop so there isn't much to attract them really, no more than before we got the chooks. The cats are pretty feral and kill anything that comes onto the property anyway.


Our food is in hoppers, any spare food is kept in containers with lids, we have poison down all the time!

the problem we have is behind us used to be all acrub land and the rats lived out there but then they cleared it and built houses on it now the rats have no were to live so come into the gardens and garages.


----------



## Mirf

fenwoman said:


> Unless their house is made of solid brick, they will not be safe from rats at night. Rats kill chickens. If you have such a bad rat problem you must start a good safe baiting regime. Rats will eat grain, chew into the henhouse and kill birds, if you have pets they are at risk of catching lepto from rats and you yourself could catch weils disease which is dangerous. I just cannot comprehend anyone having a rat problem and not dealing with it.


The coop would be a solid stone construction if I felt it was safe enough, which as I said earlier, I don't.

As I have already said, we live on the side of a wood covered mountain. There are literally hundreds/thousands of rats....we can't kill 'em all!! 

We have attempted bait traps (they ignore them), we have placed poison in outbuildings and it doesn't appear to have any affect on the numbers and is barely touched. Years ago the neighbours dealt with them by keeping free range ferrets in large numbers...I doubt that would be too popular these days.:yeahright:

The only way that we can _safely_ deal with them is shooting the adults when we see them, which is what we are doing. I am not a total idiot, honest.

The soak away system in this area is well over 150 years old and well past it's best. The local council have even tagged rats to see where they go. One particular female went for miles every day through the soak aways, popping up in well over a dozen gardens. We have rats popping up in our garden that live 2 miles away! 

Tell me, how we are supposed to compete with and kill every rat within a 2/3 mile radius??!!


----------



## HABU

had to crack coal to fire up the stove... got water from the well...

out houses... drinking from the bucket...

... more 'taters...












:lol2: i'm just bored... don't pay me no mind... these are bumps..

good reading!:2thumb:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> Our food is in hoppers, any spare food is kept in containers with lids, we have poison down all the time!
> 
> the problem we have is behind us used to be all acrub land and the rats lived out there but then they cleared it and built houses on it now the rats have no were to live so come into the gardens and garages.


Makes me cringe, dirty horrid creatures. Will they eat the chicken s*** as that's the only thing to attract them at the moment? I don't throw food in their run and won't until it's fully secure.


----------



## HABU

coyotes... bad news...


----------



## temeraire

LiamRatSnake said:


> Makes me cringe, dirty horrid creatures. Will they eat the chicken s*** as that's the only thing to attract them at the moment?


Possibly. I've seen them eat dog poo.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

temeraire said:


> Possibly. I've seen them eat dog poo.


Ew, the tramps.
I think having a big nasty cat helps. In the summer she brought us dozens of fish :/


----------



## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> were having trouble, we use poison and traps (live and fen) but the houses around us are not trying to control them, they trow loafs of bread and seed on the floor we counted 7 in one garden, so we are losing the battle to control them as they just keep bringing them i have lost two chickens and two ducks, the trio of cream legbars and the four ducks are now going to get moved till we move as I am just fed up with it, I am going through a tub of tomcat in just over week!!


 Ahh that's a bit different and that's where your local council comes in. Speak to the enbvironmental health people and ask them to have a word with your rat feeding neighbours. What happens to rats in the live trap?
If you need cheap tomcat2 I can point you to where I get the stuff from.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Ahh that's a bit different and that's where your local council comes in. Speak to the enbvironmental health people and ask them to have a word with your rat feeding neighbours. What happens to rats in the live trap?
> If you need cheap tomcat2 I can point you to where I get the stuff from.


I'd like a pointer too please as it ain't the cheapest of stuff.


----------



## fenwoman

This is the cheapest place I have managed to find.
Mouse Control Products - Tomcat Rat and Mouse Poison Pellets and Blocks
£38.78 in vat and inc p&p for 4kg.
I usually get the 8kg size as I have 10 bait boxes all over my land which get checked weekly and refilled as necessary. I also patrol the perimeter weekly looking for rat holes and I drop a block down any I find (usually in the banks of the **** around my land) and put a brick over the hole.Check 2 days later and put another one or two blocks in if the first has gone. I bait all year around.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> This is the cheapest place I have managed to find.
> Mouse Control Products - Tomcat Rat and Mouse Poison Pellets and Blocks
> £38.78 in vat and inc p&p for 4kg.
> I usually get the 8kg size as I have 10 bait boxes all over my land which get checked weekly and refilled as necessary. I also patrol the perimeter weekly looking for rat holes and I drop a block down any I find (usually in the banks of the **** around my land) and put a brick over the hole.Check 2 days later and put another one or two blocks in if the first has gone. I bait all year around.


How long does it last? As I say, I've only got a couple of traps and thus far haven't been touched. I just got a little sachet thing, with 8 blocks I think.


----------



## vonnie

This is all answering a question I've been meaning to post for the last few days.

I've seen rats nearby but never in the garden until last week. I'm not daft enough to think that means I didn't have them before, but I'm very careful with metal grain bins etc so they probably find easier pickings elsewhere.

Last week I was putting much more bird feed out for the wild birds than usual. But omg they are messy especially the finches and some ended up sat on top of the snow. Went outside to walk the dogs and a rat scurried off into the hedge from under the feeders.

So I intend to pick up whatever people think is the best bait/traps etc on Saturday when I go to pick up my feed from the farmstores.

And yes, I was thinking traps but what do you do with the rats?


----------



## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> This is all answering a question I've been meaning to post for the last few days.
> 
> I've seen rats nearby but never in the garden until last week. I'm not daft enough to think that means I didn't have them before, but I'm very careful with metal grain bins etc so they probably find easier pickings elsewhere.
> 
> Last week I was putting much more bird feed out for the wild birds than usual. But omg they are messy especially the finches and some ended up sat on top of the snow. Went outside to walk the dogs and a rat scurried off into the hedge from under the feeders.
> 
> So I intend to pick up whatever people think is the best bait/traps etc on Saturday when I go to pick up my feed from the farmstores.
> 
> And yes, I was thinking traps but what do you do with the rats?


Double bag and bin them? We throw the squirrels in the bin.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> It must cost you a bloody fortune to feed your lot.
> I went through middleton earlier and spotted a field full of guinea fowl, just down the road from you. How do the neighbours cope with the cockerals cos they're quite close?
> 
> I'd love a cock biurd, but the neighbours would go mad.


Guinea Fowl are very very noisey! lol 
They up near the canal? Loads up there lol
And yes, 4 sacks a week of feed! Then veg and fresh food and bread etc aswell.
But we love them as pets as well as food suppliers so I don't really sorta care what they cost, wether they are even cost effective. 



HABU said:


> we grew 'taters...





HABU said:


> snap-beans, we grew snap-beans too... green beans... sit all day snapping them for canning... bushels..
> 
> ... yep.





HABU said:


> corn. we grew corn... fried it mostly...
> 
> and them radishes...
> 
> cucumbers... lotta canning ....
> 
> 
> hams... cured hams...


 
It's fab! Soooo much enjoyment in growing and eating your own produce.

Happy days of sitting at our back porch, shelling peas with my mum and sisters lol 
Just eating them fresh from the pod! Heaven!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Guinea Fowl are very very noisey! lol
> They up near the canal? Loads up there lol
> And yes, 4 sacks a week of feed! Then veg and fresh food and bread etc aswell.
> But we love them as pets as well as food suppliers so I don't really sorta care what they cost, wether they are even cost effective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's fab! Soooo much enjoyment in growing and eating your own produce.
> 
> Happy days of sitting at our back porch, shelling peas with my mum and sisters lol
> Just eating them fresh from the pod! Heaven!


Year the canal, near that feed shop. 4 sacks of feed? That Cheshire chickens sells 20 kg Farmgate Layers pellets for £6.20, which I don't know whether it's reasonable or not, but has lasted 4 1/2 weeks so far, fed ad lib. We grew loads of peas last year and ate them all fresh, yum.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Double bag and bin them? We throw the squirrels in the bin.


 
Outside burner and burn them so no threat of manky disease.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Outside burner and burn them so no threat of manky disease.


Good point, I'm not sure I'd enjoy the smell though. The squirrels go into them bio degradable bin bags and into the garden waste bin which now allows "animal products".


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Year the canal, near that feed shop. 4 sacks of feed? That Cheshire chickens sells 20 kg Farmgate Layers pellets for £6.20, which I don't know whether it's reasonable or not, but has lasted 4 1/2 weeks so far, fed ad lib. We grew loads of peas last year and ate them all fresh, yum.


 
I'm paying £8.50 a sack, for 20kg.
If I could drive I'd be up at Clithroe I could get 20kg of Corn for £6.00 a sack.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> I'm paying £8.50 a sack, for 20kg.
> If I could drive I'd be up at Clithroe I could get 20kg of Corn for £6.00 a sack.


So I'm getting a good enough deal then? If you do decide to get them birds you could ask them to order you a good few sacks in, I can't remember whether they had corn or not though.
What's that farm shop like on Manchester rd for food? I went in once, saw the wallabes and left.


----------



## HABU

hay is $20 a round bale here...


----------



## vonnie

Well I've spent my evening looking at seed catalogues. Is that sad? :lol2:

I think I love the planning what I'm going to grow where more than actually doing it! But I'm going to experiment with a few more unusual bits and bobs in the limited space available.

I've looked at this site so many times over the years and never bought, but this year I'm really keen on trying some of their fancy chillies, along with the Cherokee pole beans, climbing peas and rapini. And omg if those centiflor tomatoes really have that many fruits per truss I just have to give them a try Vegetable Seeds : Centiflor Tomato Seed

The one thing I really miss are raspberries. They'll be the first thing I plant when we move


----------



## ferretman

Ive just seen this thread what a great idea.

Ive recently got some hens given for my allotment always had hens but converted the runs into a ferret shed 

I grow all sorts aswell but looking to grow more exotic things? any ideas?

Allso need a cockrel to go with the hens as i would love to have a go at rearing my own birds for the table. So any advice starting from scratch would be good also have an icubator so know how thats done But any advice would be appricated


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> How long does it last? As I say, I've only got a couple of traps and thus far haven't been touched. I just got a little sachet thing, with 8 blocks I think.


How long is a bit of string? How long it lasts depends on how many bait boxes you have, how fast the bait gets taken, how many rats there are. Usually the 8kg tub lasts me a year.
When you say 'traps' do you mean bait boxes to put the bait blox in? Have you sited it properly? You can't just put it down anywhere and expect bait to be eaten right away. Rats are neophobic, meaning that they will not go near anything new until they are sure it's safe. It's what makes them so good at surviving. You need to place the bait station against a wall or a rat run or under a shed etc. Bait it, and not touch it for 2 weeks. Then after 2 weeks, open and inspect the bait to see if it's being nibbled. Don't keep moving it about to see if it will work eslewhere or you'll just end up with no rats using it. I started mine off by using some soiled rat litter from my cages, sprinkled in and around the bait box to make the wild rats think that other rats were already using it.
You have to learn to know where rats go, spot rat runs etc and place the bait stations accordingly.
If you have a huge rat problem then 8 bloxs will last a month or less.I would expect any poultry keeper to buy a tub of the blox and invest in some proper bait stations, not just one of them and bait responsibly to ensure nothing else has access to the poison.Hence the bait stations.


----------



## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> This is all answering a question I've been meaning to post for the last few days.
> 
> I've seen rats nearby but never in the garden until last week. I'm not daft enough to think that means I didn't have them before, but I'm very careful with metal grain bins etc so they probably find easier pickings elsewhere.
> 
> Last week I was putting much more bird feed out for the wild birds than usual. But omg they are messy especially the finches and some ended up sat on top of the snow. Went outside to walk the dogs and a rat scurried off into the hedge from under the feeders.
> 
> So I intend to pick up whatever people think is the best bait/traps etc on Saturday when I go to pick up my feed from the farmstores.
> 
> And yes, I was thinking traps but what do you do with the rats?


 I hate traps. They are indiscriminate. For a start you can only catch one rat at a time and if you saw one rat, there will be 20 nearby. If you catch one rat per day, you won't keep up with them reproducing. Then there is a risk of a pet getting a paw caught or wild birds getting killed in them as I discovered the last time I used a trap. One thrush and one blackbird later and the trap went in the bin and I went over to bait. With tomcat2, it's not a one dose kill. So there is little chance of secondary poisoning should a cat say, catch the rat after it's eaten the bait. It takes a week or so of feeding for the dose to kill the rat. By the time the rat has enough poison in it's body to be a risk, it's already feeling pretty ill and staying in it's nest.
I have used tomcat, and now tomcat2 for the last 10 years with much success and with no other casualties but wild rats and it deals with them very successfully.
A well placed bait station, with 3 blox strung on the metal holder inside it, will allow many rats to come and feed over the space of a week. This way, you keep the numbers down to a manageable level as it kills them faster than they can reproduce. Bear in mind that once you've got rid of the rats on your land, it isn't a permanent situation. You've just created empty territory for more to move in, so baiting is a year round thing.
Your feed merchant will not sell you the tomcat2 for anywhere near the price you can get it from online. Locally to me, the agri' merchant, charges £65 for the 4kg one.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Double bag and bin them? We throw the squirrels in the bin.


You throw good food in the bin? What on earth is wrong with you?


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> I'm paying £8.50 a sack, for 20kg.
> If I could drive I'd be up at Clithroe I could get 20kg of Corn for £6.00 a sack.


You poor buggers. I get layers pellets for £4.95 a 20kg and straight wheat for £3 for 25kg.
I rarely feed layers though as I prefer to buy the straights and mix my own feed so that I can change the mix according to weather, laying, breeding etc.


----------



## vonnie

Mine have organic feeds, but it's shockingly expensive now. Price seems to have stabilised, but last year I think every time I went to buy a sack there'd been a price hike.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> How long is a bit of string? How long it lasts depends on how many bait boxes you have, how fast the bait gets taken, how many rats there are. Usually the 8kg tub lasts me a year.
> When you say 'traps' do you mean bait boxes to put the bait blox in? Have you sited it properly? You can't just put it down anywhere and expect bait to be eaten right away. Rats are neophobic, meaning that they will not go near anything new until they are sure it's safe. It's what makes them so good at surviving. You need to place the bait station against a wall or a rat run or under a shed etc. Bait it, and not touch it for 2 weeks. Then after 2 weeks, open and inspect the bait to see if it's being nibbled. Don't keep moving it about to see if it will work eslewhere or you'll just end up with no rats using it. I started mine off by using some soiled rat litter from my cages, sprinkled in and around the bait box to make the wild rats think that other rats were already using it.
> You have to learn to know where rats go, spot rat runs etc and place the bait stations accordingly.
> If you have a huge rat problem then 8 bloxs will last a month or less.I would expect any poultry keeper to buy a tub of the blox and invest in some proper bait stations, not just one of them and bait responsibly to ensure nothing else has access to the poison.Hence the bait stations.


I use bait stations like the council use, and yes they're against walls as I beleive they will always run against walls. I scatter food at the entrances to entice them, I only have 2 as it's a small garden, I also have a humane trap with layers pellets and rabbit food in, as I figured they're more likely to use it if they can see it, if anything gets trapped it will be shot.
I meant how long will it last if I don't use it, IE does it go off?


fenwoman said:


> You throw good food in the bin? What on earth is wrong with you?


I don't like squirrel, a local butcher offered to take them off us, but I'm not sure if the council poisons and to be honest they often get the back of a spade treatment.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> I use bait stations like the council use, and yes they're against walls as I beleive they will always run against walls. I scatter food at the entrances to entice them, I only have 2 as it's a small garden, I also have a humane trap with layers pellets and rabbit food in, as I figured they're more likely to use it if they can see it, if anything gets trapped it will be shot.
> I meant how long will it last if I don't use it, IE does it go off?
> 
> I don't like squirrel, a local butcher offered to take them off us, but I'm not sure if the council poisons and to be honest they often get the back of a spade treatment.


 Don't scatter food at the entrance of the trap or they eat the feed and ignore the poison. Just bait the traps and leave them alone for 2 weeks. If after that time, nothing has been inside to nibble the blox, move the bait station to a different place.
What will you shoot the rat with and how on earth will you manage a single head shot on an animal which is flying around inside the trap like a crazy thing, trying to escape?
AFAIK there is no use by date for the blox.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> So I'm getting a good enough deal then? If you do decide to get them birds you could ask them to order you a good few sacks in, I can't remember whether they had corn or not though.
> What's that farm shop like on Manchester rd for food? I went in once, saw the wallabes and left.


 
Arh, The wallabes weren't for sale at all, they were his. I know, I asked lol
He hasn't got them now, not sure what happened to them.

They have 'Fancy Feeds' which is GM free. Not too bad and I get free delivery aswell which is a bonus with me not driving. 
Unless I got a van and stocked up the cost of hiring one, getting someone to drive it would mean they would end up costing more to go buy in bulk sadly.
Unless I find a kind family member who dosen't mind me filling the whole people Carrier full of chicken feed lol

They don't really sell many animals. Have a few rabbits, the odd ferret now and again, odd hamster or 2 etc. They keep them in the hutches they sell which are not bad. Just mainly sell Chickens and sometimes have ducks in.
She hatches a few herself and yes, if they can't get some hybrids in, he does go up to Clithroe. But then he does have them quarenteened until ready for sale.
Not as bad as most and certainly a lot better than the garden centre futher up. £30 for 2 'day' old chicks!!!!!!!!


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> You poor buggers. I get layers pellets for £4.95 a 20kg and straight wheat for £3 for 25kg.
> I rarely feed layers though as I prefer to buy the straights and mix my own feed so that I can change the mix according to weather, laying, breeding etc.


 
I know, wish I could find it cheaper near me, or at least work out a lot cheaper including delivery lol
I know, I'm soft lol But it is GM Free :blush:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Arh, The wallabes weren't for sale at all, they were his. I know, I asked lol
> He hasn't got them now, not sure what happened to them.
> 
> They have 'Fancy Feeds' which is GM free. Not too bad and I get free delivery aswell which is a bonus with me not driving.
> Unless I got a van and stocked up the cost of hiring one, getting someone to drive it would mean they would end up costing more to go buy in bulk sadly.
> Unless I find a kind family member who dosen't mind me filling the whole people Carrier full of chicken feed lol
> 
> They don't really sell many animals. Have a few rabbits, the odd ferret now and again, odd hamster or 2 etc. They keep them in the hutches they sell which are not bad. Just mainly sell Chickens and sometimes have ducks in.
> She hatches a few herself and yes, if they can't get some hybrids in, he does go up to Clithroe. But then he does have them quarenteened until ready for sale.
> Not as bad as most and certainly a lot better than the garden centre futher up. £30 for 2 'day' old chicks!!!!!!!!


That garden centre, no names, is atrocious, I had an argument with the horrible pillock running the pet department, I don't know if it's improved since.
I did see POL hybrids in there for a fiver each! Which aint half bad. Although there was half a dozen in one of them rabbit pens they have.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Don't scatter food at the entrance of the trap or they eat the feed and ignore the poison. Just bait the traps and leave them alone for 2 weeks. If after that time, nothing has been inside to nibble the blox, move the bait station to a different place.
> What will you shoot the rat with and how on earth will you manage a single head shot on an animal which is flying around inside the trap like a crazy thing, trying to escape?
> AFAIK there is no use by date for the blox.


If I can't shoot it, it will go into a sack and get hit with a spade, it's just an air rifle, I couldn't tell you the specs but it kills squirrels cleanly and has killed rabbits cleanly after being ferreted out. The advantage of having a humane trap is I can see if anything goes in. I'll move the food then, although it hasn't been touched and it's been out of the snow, so I'm being hopeful, it can go to the birds  Like I say we used to have the odd mouse (lovely little things they were) but the cats cleared them, she's a real rodent (and fish) killer.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> That garden centre, no names, is atrocious, I had an argument with the horrible pillock running the pet department, I don't know if it's improved since.
> I did see POL hybrids in there for a fiver each! Which aint half bad. Although there was half a dozen in one of them rabbit pens they have.


 
Dire ain't it. I had garden centre vouchers and bartered them down on a bluebell, had a pecked arse. gave them a bollocking about having done nothing. So got her for £10 but paid with my free vouchers.

Too soft but 'Trolly' is a right sweetie. It was the kids who pointed her out to me as injuried as I hadn't seen her. The kids said 'mum that chicken is bleeding!'


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Dire ain't it. I had garden centre vouchers and bartered them down on a bluebell, had a pecked arse. gave them a bollocking about having done nothing. So got her for £10 but paid with my free vouchers.
> 
> Too soft but 'Trolly' is a right sweetie. It was the kids who pointed her out to me as injuried as I hadn't seen her. The kids said 'mum that chicken is bleeding!'


Aw she sounds sweet. I saw some pretty poorly animals. I tried so hard to be polite and he was sooooooooooo smarmy. When I went in they were "just hybrids" apparently although more of a buff colour so not sure what they were.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Aw she sounds sweet. I saw some pretty poorly animals. I tried so hard to be polite and he was sooooooooooo smarmy. When I went in they were "just hybrids" apparently although more of a buff colour so not sure what they were.


 
Amber Links maybe?


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Amber Links maybe?


I dunno, they were pretty fluffy, like orpingtony, but fairly small, I dunno he said they were industrial hybrids, and being just a fiver? I seem to remember their short legs, but it was about a year ago now lol Can I PM you with a couple of questions?


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> I dunno, they were pretty fluffy, like orpingtony, but fairly small, I dunno he said they were industrial hybrids, and being just a fiver? I seem to remember their short legs, but it was about a year ago now lol Can I PM you with a couple of questions?


course you can. you got msn?


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> course you can. you got msn?


Yeah, let me try and set it up, I've not used it in months, can you PM your email?


----------



## bosshogg

fenwoman said:


> You poor buggers. I get layers pellets for £4.95 a 20kg and straight wheat for £3 for 25kg.
> I rarely feed layers though as I prefer to buy the straights and mix my own feed so that I can change the mix according to weather, laying, breeding etc.


i buy straights i am very lucky that I am friends with the farmers were i used to keep my horses (its were most of my poultry is at the mo) so only charges me £3 for 25G of what ever i need :no1: hay and straw £1 bargain! 

I use tomcat just going to rebait actually as I seem to be the only one in the whole street trying to control them i am going through lots!! can you PM me the link I pay £20 for a small tub think its 2kg will have to check


----------



## Ssthisto

Ok, it's not animally, but...

I'm thinking of repurposing my garden to grow various bits and pieces that the animals and I will be looking to eat - particularly fruits that are low in sugar and high in nutrients, as well as various leafy vegetables/herbs.

I've got a couple of questions maybe someone can answer.

I'd like to grow roses specifically for rose hips. Don't care what colour the roses are, how big the flowers are - I just want the fruit. Is there a particular variety here in the UK that'd fit the bill?

Are there "heritage" type varieties of blackberry, raspberry and blueberry that don't produce huge sugary fruits, just smaller "wildtype" ones?

Lastly... does anyone have any tips and tricks on composting? I'm producing about a binbagful of rat bedding a week, and the snow has made it really clear how much rubbish that actually is. Will rat bedding compost down *quickly* without me having to add anything else to it?


----------



## bosshogg

Ssthisto said:


> Ok, it's not animally, but...
> 
> I'm thinking of repurposing my garden to grow various bits and pieces that the animals and I will be looking to eat - particularly fruits that are low in sugar and high in nutrients, as well as various leafy vegetables/herbs.
> 
> I've got a couple of questions maybe someone can answer.
> 
> I'd like to grow roses specifically for rose hips. Don't care what colour the roses are, how big the flowers are - I just want the fruit. Is there a particular variety here in the UK that'd fit the bill?
> 
> Are there "heritage" type varieties of blackberry, raspberry and blueberry that don't produce huge sugary fruits, just smaller "wildtype" ones?
> 
> Lastly... does anyone have any tips and tricks on composting? I'm producing about a binbagful of rat bedding a week, and the snow has made it really clear how much rubbish that actually is. Will rat bedding compost down *quickly* without me having to add anything else to it?


any roses can be used if you are limted in floor space but not height go for climbing roses, patio roses are good ones to 


mmm rasp, blueberrys blackberries are all full of sugar, but if you go for the the ones with throns instead of th cultivated thornless ones you should find the fruits smaller 

composting depends what bedding you use most stuff will rot down to good compost in 6months to a year


----------



## Ssthisto

bosshogg said:


> composting depends what bedding you use most stuff will rot down to good compost in 6months to a year


Mostly wood shavings.

Six months to a year is bad... in that time we'd fill our *whole* garden with rat bedding.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Ssthisto said:


> Mostly wood shavings.
> 
> Six months to a year is bad... in that time we'd fill our *whole* garden with rat bedding.


Start a compost heap, that way you can use as much as you can and will at least use some of it. I've turned rabbit litter straight into the soil before, but I let it mulch a bit before planting as I heard the ammonia can burn the plants.


----------



## Ssthisto

LiamRatSnake said:


> Start a compost heap, that way you can use as much as you can and will at least use some of it. I've turned rabbit litter straight into the soil before, but I let it mulch a bit before planting as I heard the ammonia can burn the plants.


Problem is, even if we had a compost heap, the heap would have to be the size of our whole garden to take the amount of bedding we're turning out, if it takes six months for the stuff to rot down... it's not that we want compost, it's that we want not to be filling our collected-twice-a-month grey bin with two binbags full of rat bedding per collection... leaves no room for anything else!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Ssthisto said:


> Problem is, even if we had a compost heap, the heap would have to be the size of our whole garden to take the amount of bedding we're turning out, if it takes six months for the stuff to rot down... it's not that we want compost, it's that we want not to be filling our collected-twice-a-month grey bin with two binbags full of rat bedding per collection... leaves no room for anything else!


Oh right, erm... put it on freecycle? Take it to the tip, ours has a composting section. Our rabbits stuff tends to go into the garden waste bin or is incinerated, this takes ages though. We don't need compost either any more lol


----------



## Ssthisto

Wish we COULD take it to the tip. No vehicle, and not within walking distance... hence the problem we have now with piles of binbags since we haven't had a rubbish collection since two weeks before Christmas.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Ssthisto said:


> Wish we COULD take it to the tip. No vehicle, and not within walking distance... hence the problem we have now with piles of binbags since we haven't had a rubbish collection since two weeks before Christmas.


In that case, burn it? We had bags piling up in the garden so I burnt them on the barbeque, I did burn a hole in the bottom of it but it's all gone


----------



## Pimperella

Ssthisto said:


> Wish we COULD take it to the tip. No vehicle, and not within walking distance... hence the problem we have now with piles of binbags since we haven't had a rubbish collection since two weeks before Christmas.


 
Or freecycle.

2 bin bags a month. I must get 40 to 60 each month from everything, rabbits, poultry, rats, hamsters lol
But I have landscape gardeners, allotment holders and large scale private veg growers and god they go mad for the stuff. They will fight over it if I had them turn up at the same time to collect. So I let one collect however much they want and if they leave any, which they seldom do, then next on the list gets a call. 

2 Guys who collect, one has 4 acres and other 2. Both have no built a year round muck heap in different sections.
the guy with 4 acres, he had it going to waste until his neighbour reported him for not using it for farming (rules of the land lol) so he's large scale veg growing and has had some amazing veg from his patch (I know cause he brought me a selection in September. mmmmmmm All growen with my mixed rabbit/rodent/poultry compost he has been collecting off me for 2 years now lol so he has a fab well rotted section now. With more for years to come.

The poultry/Rabbit muck is some of the best growing muck. Father in law said to me, 'it's no wonder they snap your arm off for it, it's £15 a bag in the garden centres!' 
I'm happy for them to collect for free.


----------



## Ssthisto

Four binbags a month, actually (and that doesn't count snake bedding) - two every two weeks (which is our bin collection). 

I will have to see if used rodent bedding is something that our local freecycle group is interested in.


----------



## Ally

Ssthisto said:


> Four binbags a month, actually (and that doesn't count snake bedding) - two every two weeks (which is our bin collection).
> 
> I will have to see if used rodent bedding is something that our local freecycle group is interested in.


When I was living at the flat (one big between all the flats, no compostable waste collection) I put it up on freecycle and got about 5 emails. I used to drop it off to a guy on the way to work once a week as he didn't drive, but there were people happy to collect too. Give it a shot!


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> I know, wish I could find it cheaper near me, or at least work out a lot cheaper including delivery lol
> I know, I'm soft lol But it is GM Free :blush:


 Mine is GM free too. The wheat is grown in the fields around my village and I buy direct from the farmer.
I think one of the reasons I get things so cheap is that this is an arable farming area. The stuff's grown here. I think up there is is mainly livestock (sheep?) so grain and the like has to be bought in from down here. I feel sorry for you because even though there are sheep and cattle up where you are, you aren't able to get that any cheaper lol. I get the best of both worlds, produce and feed is cheap and I rear my own meat using the cheap produce and feed etc. I'm only paying £2 a bale for fab hay.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Mine is GM free too. The wheat is grown in the fields around my village and I buy direct from the farmer.
> I think one of the reasons I get things so cheap is that this is an arable farming area. The stuff's grown here. I think up there is is mainly livestock (sheep?) so grain and the like has to be bought in from down here. I feel sorry for you because even though there are sheep and cattle up where you are, you aren't able to get that any cheaper lol. I get the best of both worlds, produce and feed is cheap and I rear my own meat using the cheap produce and feed etc. I'm only paying £2 a bale for fab hay.


It's alright for some lol Have you got your custard doughnut Rhinos yet?


----------



## fenwoman

Ssthisto said:


> I'd like to grow roses specifically for rose hips. Don't care what colour the roses are, how big the flowers are - I just want the fruit. Is there a particular variety here in the UK that'd fit the bill?


 Wild type dog roses (thorny as buggery) are the most prolific. You can make a pretty good burglar proof hedge with them. Pretty pink or white small single flowers. Or, the rosa rugosa which is some kind of none rambling hedging rose. Both of those would be the best for hips IMO.



> Are there "heritage" type varieties of blackberry, raspberry and blueberry that don't produce huge sugary fruits, just smaller "wildtype" ones?


 I haven't managed to find any heritage soft fruits. Since the season for them is so short, you have to preserve them in some way, and large juicy fruit preserves better than niggardly little things. I wouldn't waste space on blackberries since they are pretty easy to find growing on any rough ground. Use the space for something else.



> Lastly... does anyone have any tips and tricks on composting? I'm producing about a binbagful of rat bedding a week, and the snow has made it really clear how much rubbish that actually is. Will rat bedding compost down *quickly* without me having to add anything else to it?


http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=wvU&q=succesful+composting&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK|countryGB&aq=f&oq=

to get it going, pee on it daily. Or use a bucket to collect the stuff and aplpy daily. You need a variety of stuff in the compost so some moist stuff like food scraps, tea leaves (or bags if you use them) veggie peelings, wet shredded paper and carboard etc. I have 2 massive compost heaps on the go. I use loads of the stuff.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> It's alright for some lol Have you got your custard doughnut Rhinos yet?


 ITYM the rare custard doughnut eating teacup dumbo rex rhinos.:lol2:
Nope, Saturday is the day I'll know either way.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> ITYM the rare custard doughnut eating teacup dumbo rex rhinos.:lol2:
> Nope, Saturday is the day I'll know either way.


Bloody hell, I wanna know now.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

I was just sat thinking I'd love to be self sufficient one day, especially with some custard doughnut eating teacup dumbo rex Rhinos. But is it really possible? I mean what about toothpaste and bog rolls and tea and coffee and sugar!


----------



## bosshogg

fenwoman said:


> Mine is GM free too. The wheat is grown in the fields around my village and I buy direct from the farmer.
> I think one of the reasons I get things so cheap is that this is an arable farming area. The stuff's grown here. I think up there is is mainly livestock (sheep?) so grain and the like has to be bought in from down here. I feel sorry for you because even though there are sheep and cattle up where you are, you aren't able to get that any cheaper lol. I get the best of both worlds, produce and feed is cheap and I rear my own meat using the cheap produce and feed etc. I'm only paying £2 a bale for fab hay.


ditto i wander the fields were its grown, and have done for 13 years since i moved from scotland I know the farmer really well, most farmers are willing to sell a bag if you ask:2thumb:

EDIT TO ADD: pimp I use mgazorb you think they would want that for there compost heaps?


----------



## Ssthisto

fenwoman said:


> Wild type dog roses (thorny as buggery) are the most prolific. You can make a pretty good burglar proof hedge with them. Pretty pink or white small single flowers. Or, the rosa rugosa which is some kind of none rambling hedging rose. Both of those would be the best for hips IMO.


Wild dog roses it is. Having a hedge of roses that deters neighbour kids from deciding our garden's a place to play suits me just fine.



> I haven't managed to find any heritage soft fruits. Since the season for them is so short, you have to preserve them in some way, and large juicy fruit preserves better than niggardly little things. I wouldn't waste space on blackberries since they are pretty easy to find growing on any rough ground. Use the space for something else.


I very much want to grow them in my own garden so that I know that they haven't been peed on by every dog in the area (there ARE brambles in a fairly nearby wood) and so that I can go and check and eat them every day rather than having to make a specific walk to go get them - and part of the reason I'm interested in the "wildtype" varieties is because I don't intend to preserve them. What can't be eaten in season by me and the reptiles will be left there for the birds. 

I'm also tempted by red, black and whitecurrants and maybe gooseberries.



> to get it going, pee on it daily. Or use a bucket to collect the stuff and aplpy daily. You need a variety of stuff in the compost so some moist stuff like food scraps, tea leaves (or bags if you use them) veggie peelings, wet shredded paper and carboard etc. I have 2 massive compost heaps on the go. I use loads of the stuff.


We don't really have food scraps or veggie peelings (those go to the rats) - and I'm an American, so my tea comes in a jar labelled "Coffee". Using wee could certainly be interesting, I'm not sure how to convince my other half that he needs to pee in the bucket, not in the toilet. The shredded paper/cardboard we could do... but I'm not sure how well "wood shavings, rat poop and pee, cardboard/paper with snake poop/pee" would compost down given that we don't have any "green" stuff to put in the compost heap with it.


----------



## HABU

Thoreau's Walden - an annotated edition


----------



## Pimperella

Ssthisto said:


> Wild dog roses it is. Having a hedge of roses that deters neighbour kids from deciding our garden's a place to play suits me just fine.
> 
> 
> I very much want to grow them in my own garden so that I know that they haven't been peed on by every dog in the area (there ARE brambles in a fairly nearby wood) and so that I can go and check and eat them every day rather than having to make a specific walk to go get them - and part of the reason I'm interested in the "wildtype" varieties is because I don't intend to preserve them. What can't be eaten in season by me and the reptiles will be left there for the birds.
> 
> I'm also tempted by red, black and whitecurrants and maybe gooseberries.
> 
> 
> We don't really have food scraps or veggie peelings (those go to the rats) - and I'm an American, so my tea comes in a jar labelled "Coffee". Using wee could certainly be interesting, *I'm not sure how to convince my other half that he needs to pee in the bucket, not in the toilet.* The shredded paper/cardboard we could do... but I'm not sure how well "wood shavings, rat poop and pee, cardboard/paper with snake poop/pee" would compost down given that we don't have any "green" stuff to put in the compost heap with it.


 
Paint a target on the bottom of it. Blokes love that, could be his new game lol


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> I was just sat thinking I'd love to be self sufficient one day, especially with some custard doughnut eating teacup dumbo rex Rhinos. But is it really possible? I mean what about toothpaste and bog rolls and tea and coffee and sugar!


 Well of course it would be nigh on impossible to be 100% self sufficient. But by producing as much of your own food, it means a little money goes a long long way. I eat like a king on a pauper's money. Tonight for example. I had roasted pork hock, mashed potatoes, broccoli and roasted apples with bread and butter pudding for afters.
Pork was from Ant and Dec, the pigs I raised last year, spuds were £2.50 for a 25kg sack, broccoli was 25p a kg, apples were 15p a kg (all from the produce auction, all locally grown). Bread was asda smart price nasty packet white bread. I only buy it for b&b pudding, or if I fancy a slice of fried bread once in a blue moon, milk was from Phoebe the goat this evening, sultanas ASDA smartprice and sugar. All done in the oven at the same time the pork was roasting. The oven was heated with free logs and wood and not only was it roasting the pork and the pudding, but it boiled my kettle to make a pot of tea (loose leaves which are cheaper and better wiality leaves than in tea bags) which then gets stood on top of the stove to stay warm all night and the one log does all the cooking, kettle boiling, keeping tea hot, heating hte downstairs, plus, drying a full load of washing. All that for nothing but the effort of collecting the logs and splitting them.
That's part of being self sufficient.
Incidentally, I never use laundry detergent, I use soda crystals and borax.Cheaper, more environmentally friendly, no animal testing and cleans just as well. You don't actually need to buy toothpaste either, you could make your own tooth powder like they did in the olden days based on bicarb of soda.
I have several books with recipes for things like soap, laundry powder/liquid, furniture polish, face creams and much more besides.
Self sufficient, environmentally friendly , fun to make and a fraction of the cost of buying the equivalent.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Well of course it would be nigh on impossible to be 100% self sufficient. But by producing as much of your own food, it means a little money goes a long long way. I eat like a king on a pauper's money. Tonight for example. I had roasted pork hock, mashed potatoes, broccoli and roasted apples with bread and butter pudding for afters.
> Pork was from Ant and Dec, the pigs I raised last year, spuds were £2.50 for a 25kg sack, broccoli was 25p a kg, apples were 15p a kg (all from the produce auction, all locally grown). Bread was asda smart price nasty packet white bread. I only buy it for b&b pudding, or if I fancy a slice of fried bread once in a blue moon, milk was from Phoebe the goat this evening, sultanas ASDA smartprice and sugar. All done in the oven at the same time the pork was roasting. The oven was heated with free logs and wood and not only was it roasting the pork and the pudding, but it boiled my kettle to make a pot of tea (loose leaves which are cheaper and better wiality leaves than in tea bags) which then gets stood on top of the stove to stay warm all night and the one log does all the cooking, kettle boiling, keeping tea hot, heating hte downstairs, plus, drying a full load of washing. All that for nothing but the effort of collecting the logs and splitting them.
> That's part of being self sufficient.
> Incidentally, I never use laundry detergent, I use soda crystals and borax.Cheaper, more environmentally friendly, no animal testing and cleans just as well. You don't actually need to buy toothpaste either, you could make your own tooth powder like they did in the olden days based on bicarb of soda.
> I have several books with recipes for things like soap, laundry powder/liquid, furniture polish, face creams and much more besides.
> Self sufficient, environmentally friendly , fun to make and a fraction of the cost of buying the equivalent.


Sounds brilliant  I love something for nothing/less. Saving money's all well and good, it's just getting the money together to buy/rent a house with land.


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> Paint a target on the bottom of it. Blokes love that, could be his new game lol


Or put a couple of ping pong balls in the bottom for him to chase. Keeps 'em amused for ages it does.:lol2:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Or put a couple of ping pong balls in the bottom for him to chase. Keeps 'em amused for ages it does.:lol2:


I know what I'm doing tonight.

Can you grow tobacco?


----------



## fenwoman

Ssthisto said:


> Wild dog roses it is. Having a hedge of roses that deters neighbour kids from deciding our garden's a place to play suits me just fine.
> 
> 
> I very much want to grow them in my own garden so that I know that they haven't been peed on by every dog in the area (there ARE brambles in a fairly nearby wood) and so that I can go and check and eat them every day rather than having to make a specific walk to go get them - and part of the reason I'm interested in the "wildtype" varieties is because I don't intend to preserve them. What can't be eaten in season by me and the reptiles will be left there for the birds.
> 
> I'm also tempted by red, black and whitecurrants and maybe gooseberries.
> 
> 
> We don't really have food scraps or veggie peelings (those go to the rats) - and I'm an American, so my tea comes in a jar labelled "Coffee". Using wee could certainly be interesting, I'm not sure how to convince my other half that he needs to pee in the bucket, not in the toilet. The shredded paper/cardboard we could do... but I'm not sure how well "wood shavings, rat poop and pee, cardboard/paper with snake poop/pee" would compost down given that we don't have any "green" stuff to put in the compost heap with it.


Trick with wild blackberries (brambles) is to pick higher than dogs can wee lol.
I don't think your compost would be succesful without vegetable matter of some kind in it. Don't you have a lawn to mow or hedge to trim etc?
It might be worth doing some research into soft fruits and buy the bushes of different varieties in order to get some ripening later to extend your season. Otherwise you eat a glut for a month, and nothing for the next 11 months. Which is why preserving is such a big part of being self sufficient. If you dried soft fruits for example, and then reconstituted by soaking over night, your animals and you can enjoy your fruit for months.
The thing is with self sufficiency is that generally it requires more than a little physical effort, so for example, in September, people like Pimps and my self go out for an hour or two to gather as many blackberries as we can, then come home and start turning them into jams, jellys, cakes, pies and tarts. Otherwise, if you just want a punnet or two of some kind of soft fruit, you might as well buy them from the supermarket which sort of defeats the object lol.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> Or put a couple of ping pong balls in the bottom for him to chase. Keeps 'em amused for ages it does.:lol2:


 
Great Idea! Hours of fun for all the blokes in the family. They could have jars glued to the bottom of the bucket with pingpong balls in and first to float theirs out wins................................................




































NOT to empty the bucket on the heap! lol


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> I know what I'm doing tonight.
> 
> Can you grow tobacco?


It can be grown. I've never done it though.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Sounds brilliant  I love something for nothing/less. Saving money's all well and good, it's just getting the money together to buy/rent a house with land.


 
Shame your not closer. We have our name down with the council for a bit of local land. Someone has it at the moment but they are not using a seperate corner of the land with is semi fenced off. 
Would be perfect to sort out and rear a few free range piggies on. Geese to keep people away.


----------



## fenwoman

From this









to this








to this








and this


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> It can be grown. I've never done it though.


Is it smokeable though? That would be interesting.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Shame your not closer. We have our name down with the council for a bit of local land. Someone has it at the moment but they are not using a seperate corner of the land with is semi fenced off.
> Would be perfect to sort out and rear a few free range piggies on. Geese to keep people away.


I might have to buy a big ham off you soon then lol


----------



## fenwoman

Wisbech produce auction, December 2009.
A vast range of fresh locally grown food which was still growing in the field the day before
















and you can buy fruit trees and bushes, ornamentals plants and trees etc too.
These are all bare rooted fruit trees.








and these are ornamentals








and xmas wreaths for £1 each








hyacinths in pots to grow indoors








and outside, yet more, including Nick the auctioneer who is waving at me.








and the market cafe where every Thursday I get a cup of coffee (instant) and a sausage sarnie (white packet bread and brown sauce) made by Sue's fair hands, then sit and chatter to the regulars (including Tony Martin) while we wait for the auction to start. Deals are made in here, requests for livestock or poultry to be sourced, prices and harvests discussed and a nice time had by all.








While Chalky is asleep on the passenger seat of my car which stands waiting to be loaded up with bargains.








and that's my afternoon at Wisbech produce auction. As much a social event as a buying spree.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Sounds brilliant  I love something for nothing/less. Saving money's all well and good, it's just getting the money together to buy/rent a house with land.


 put your name down for an allotment?



LiamRatSnake said:


> I know what I'm doing tonight.


Old fashioned shoot 'em up game which needs no electricity or computer hehe.


----------



## HABU

fenwoman said:


> Wisbech produce auction, December 2009.
> A vast range of fresh locally grown food which was still growing in the field the day before
> image
> imageimage
> and you can buy fruit trees and bushes, ornamentals plants and trees etc too.
> These are all bare rooted fruit trees.
> image
> and these are ornamentals
> image
> and xmas wreaths for £1 each
> image
> hyacinths in pots to grow indoors
> image
> and outside, yet more, including Nick the auctioneer who is waving at me.
> image
> and the market cafe where every Thursday I get a cup of coffee (instant) and a sausage sarnie (white packet bread and brown sauce) made by Sue's fair hands, then sit and chatter to the regulars (including Tony Martin) while we wait for the auction to start. Deals are made in here, requests for livestock or poultry to be sourced, prices and harvests discussed and a nice time had by all.
> image
> While Chalky is asleep on the passenger seat of my car which stands waiting to be loaded up with bargains.
> image
> and that's my afternoon at Wisbech produce auction. As much a social event as a buying spree.


 
love it!

british places!:2thumb:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> put your name down for an allotment?
> 
> 
> 
> Old fashioned shoot 'em up game which needs no electricity or computer hehe.


You should see the waiting lists :O We looked into it. I can't guarantee my finances or spare time in 300 years time. I'm afraid.
I love the look of that auction. Hmmm... Fruit trees (£30+ at all the nearest garden centres). We got red currant and black currant trees but they're crap lol.


----------



## bosshogg

thats great Pam wish we had one like tat we have livestock auctions that sells some home grown stuff but nothing to that size


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> You should see the waiting lists :O We looked into it. I can't guarantee my finances or spare time in 300 years time. I'm afraid.
> I love the look of that auction. Hmmm... Fruit trees (£30+ at all the nearest garden centres). We got red currant and black currant trees but they're crap lol.


It's be worth coming down here for asn afternoon and buying loads of trees and shrubs to take back and flogging to people for double what you paid so that everything you bought and your petrol money etc is covered by the profit you make.


----------



## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> thats great Pam wish we had one like tat we have livestock auctions that sells some home grown stuff but nothing to that size


I'm in a good place here as east anglia is mainly arable and fruit etc so we get that cheaply. Then Leicestershire is just an hour and a bit away for livestock auctions which also does game . That's Melton mowbray on a Tuesday.If you want a pair of wild caught rabbits, or a brace of pheasants or ducks or a bit of venison, or poultry, hatching eggs, cattle sheep and pigs, then Melton's the place.
I'm smack bang in the middle of everything really.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> It's be worth coming down here for asn afternoon and buying loads of trees and shrubs to take back and flogging to people for double what you paid so that everything you bought and your petrol money etc is covered by the profit you make.


That would be a cool idea. I'm trying to think where I could put them, do you reckon chickens would destroy them? I need something decorative in their run.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> That would be a cool idea. I'm trying to think where I could put them, do you reckon chickens would destroy them? I need something decorative in their run.


chickens won't destroy trees but they'll eat the fruit off low lying soft fruit bushes. Trees will provide them with some shade and shelter.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> chickens won't destroy trees but they'll eat the fruit off low lying soft fruit bushes. Trees will provide them with some shade and shelter.


And will look better than the pallets and crates they have for shelter, which they don't bother using, they just go in/under the coop, they're under a huge tree on the other side of the wall though.


----------



## vonnie

Mine have a huge old fuschia bush. It must be almost 10 ft tall and they are always to be found under it. Sheltering in the Winter, and lounging about dustbathing in the Summer. And as a bonus they like to eat the flowers and it's hilarious watching them jumping up to reach them!


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> And will look better than the pallets and crates they have for shelter, which they don't bother using, they just go in/under the coop, they're under a huge tree on the other side of the wall though.


 and you cannot plant a tree underneath a tree cos it won't grow.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

I want to keep it reasonably clear so I can spot any holes chewed in too.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> and you cannot plant a tree underneath a tree cos it won't grow.


I forgot about that, it would be all right at the other end of the run though, cos there's enough light there and they don't share the same ground so the big tree wouldn't be stealing all it's nutrients.


----------



## HABU

blackberries... yum... cobbler.... double yum...

call them brambles there eh?

we call the briars...:lol2:


----------



## Ssthisto

fenwoman said:


> I don't think your compost would be succesful without vegetable matter of some kind in it. Don't you have a lawn to mow or hedge to trim etc?


If we set up the roses, brambles, etc, it would be with the express purpose of getting rid completely of the current privet hedge and lawn - I hate them.



> It might be worth doing some research into soft fruits and buy the bushes of different varieties in order to get some ripening later to extend your season. Otherwise you eat a glut for a month, and nothing for the next 11 months.


Different varieties and slightly different seasons sounds good - although for me the point is that there's a glut for a short time period and absence for the rest of the time. It's not so much about total selfsufficiency but about eating what's in season ONLY when it is in season when it comes to fruit. I want to limit my eating-of-fruit to when it would naturally have been available - and limiting the number of bred-for-high-sugar-content fruits I grow (I wouldn't mind getting hold of a crabapple tree, too).


----------



## HABU

just a river and soybean fields in my backyard... not much to work with...

good fishing and hunting though!:lol2:


----------



## LiamRatSnake

HABU said:


> image
> 
> 
> image
> 
> just a river and soybean fields in my backyard... not much to work with...
> 
> good fishing and hunting though!:lol2:


I'd swap any day! Behind our garden we've got a crappy little park and a stinking little brook with ASDA trolleys in it.


----------



## vonnie

Behind my garden are three completely overgrown allotments. They belong to a woman who lived next door over 10 years ago. I tried to buy them but she wasn't interested, so I rented them, but realised I was wasting my time when she made comments about not planting anything too 'permanent' like fruit trees.

Basically she's just waiting for planning guidelines to change so she can cram a dozen houses on there and thought I'd be a mug who would tidy it up for her in the meantime. No chance.

Such a waste. They were Coal Board allotments years ago. They should have sold them with some sort of covenant that they had to stay as allotments, or at least stay belonging to the hosues.


----------



## ....

Thought this thread needs a bump so here it is:2thumb:.


----------



## fenwoman

.... said:


> Thought this thread needs a bump so here it is:2thumb:.


 ahhh but is it a free range organic bump??


----------



## ....

fenwoman said:


> ahhh but is it a free range organic bump??


Yep reared by my self and given the best possible life beforehand: victory:.


----------



## ....

Another bump for the thread come on people


----------



## vonnie

Bumping this up to keep it near the top and to say...

Bread

Not exactly self-sufficient as I've not enough room to grow the wheat! But who bakes their own and have you found anywhere to buy reasonably priced flour in 10kg ish sizes?

Really bugs me that I can't bake my own for anywhere near the price of the cheap supermarket own brand 'bread'.


----------



## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> Bumping this up to keep it near the top and to say...
> 
> Bread
> 
> Not exactly self-sufficient as I've not enough room to grow the wheat! But who bakes their own and have you found anywhere to buy reasonably priced flour in 10kg ish sizes?
> 
> Really bugs me that I can't bake my own for anywhere near the price of the cheap supermarket own brand 'bread'.


 Supermarket bread? Do you mean white packet bread? I never buy packet bread. It's vile. And baking my own is still cheaper than the proper granary in store bakery stuff.
I get 3 loaves from a large bag of wholemeal flour from the supermarket. They give you live yeast for free, or you can buy dried stuff.


----------



## HABU

fresh baked bread... entirely worth it...

and the smell...

(habu drools)


----------



## ....

Can anyone help me, I have been considering getting a few chickens (only a few 3-6) and I was wondering how noisy they would be as thats our biggest concer due to nasty neibours. thanks and please excuse my spelling I am in a bit of a rush again thanks.


----------



## bosshogg

.... said:


> Can anyone help me, I have been considering getting a few chickens (only a few 3-6) and I was wondering how noisy they would be as thats our biggest concer due to nasty neibours. thanks and please excuse my spelling I am in a bit of a rush again thanks.


if you have nasty neighbours i wouldnt even though hens are quiter than cockreals when it comes to laying some hens are VERY VERY loud, actually my two hens are louder than the cock crowing when they are laying!


----------



## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> if you have nasty neighbours i wouldnt even though hens are quiter than cockreals when it comes to laying some hens are VERY VERY loud, actually my two hens are louder than the cock crowing when they are laying!


 I agree with Bossy (it's either that or Hoggy, which do you prefer lol)
Chickens yell 'the big egg song' when they lay an eggs. It's as loud as a cockerel but goes on for longer than him crowing does. It goes "big big big big egg!!..........Big big *egg!!*.............big big big big *bigegg!!!*"
If you have nasty neighbours, they'll cause trouble no matter what you have.


----------



## LoveForLizards

fenwoman said:


> I agree with Bossy (it's either that or Hoggy, which do you prefer lol)
> Chickens yell 'the big egg song' when they lay an eggs. *It's as loud as a cockerel but goes on for longer than him crowing does.*
> If you have nasty neighbours, they'll cause trouble no matter what you have.


I find that quite interesting, is the main difference that Cockerels do it early morning then? We have been thinking about a few Chickens for ages now, my mum is up for a few hens but is dead set that Cockerels are too noisy. Considering the Cockerel would be locked away in the morning anyway (until about 6.30am in the Summer, and 8-9am during the winter), would the crowing be quietened by him being housed, or would he still crow once he was let out? Not that most of our neighbors would mind too much anyway, the people behind us keep bloomin' noisy ducks, neighbors on the right are deaf as posts and the neighbor on the left is hardly ever there, and she's mostly deaf anyway.


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## fenwoman

when you first bring a cockerel home, it'll crow loads for the first week or so. It's to announce to any other cockerels in the area that he has moved in. He''ll crow, then listen for an answering crow. He's trying to ascertain what other cockerels are in the area and where they are etc just like a dog sniff a lamp post to see who is about etc.
After the initial sussing out crows, he'll quieten down. He will crow at sunrise though which means 4am in summer. The trick is either to ensure that the henhouse is totally dark so he can't see the sun coming up, or, place his roosting perch so high up that he cannot raise his head to crow.
Anyone who has neighbours who'd complain about a cockerel crowing during the day will also have problems with the hens making the big egg noise.


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## LoveForLizards

fenwoman said:


> when you first bring a cockerel home, it'll crow loads for the first week or so. It's to announce to any other cockerels in the area that he has moved in. He''ll crow, then listen for an answering crow. He's trying to ascertain what other cockerels are in the area and where they are etc just like a dog sniff a lamp post to see who is about etc.
> After the initial sussing out crows, he'll quieten down. He will crow at sunrise though which means 4am in summer. The trick is either to ensure that the henhouse is totally dark so he can't see the sun coming up, or, place his roosting perch so high up that he cannot raise his head to crow.
> Anyone who has neighbours who'd complain about a cockerel crowing during the day will also have problems with the hens making the big egg noise.


Thanks. Like I said, neighbors on one side are hardly ever there, the ones on the other side are deaf as posts bless them, I don't think they'd mind anyway though, they love animals (and fresh eggs!) fortunately. Might have to let the 'rents know and see if we could get a few once the Rabbit pens have been shifted about to make room for a hen house!


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## pippainnit

I'm just wondering (in relation to what was spoken about previously in the thread re: pest control, rats, etc.) how people feel about poisoning? I saw that a fair few people appear to advocate it (which I've always agreed with in comparison to indiscriminate forms of killing such snaring/trapping, etc.) however I was always under the impression that poisoning was a pretty wretched way of dealing with pests, especially in relation to how long they generally take to die and the amount that they suffer.
Personally, I've had trouble with wild rats in the past but find it incredibly difficult to not associate such 'pests' with the pet rats that share my home. However that is very much my personal disposition and I wouldn't judge others who disagree, so my post isn't trying to generate any further debate or anything; I'm just wondering whether poisoning isn't as bad as I've always been led to believe?


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## fenwoman

pippainnit said:


> I'm just wondering (in relation to what was spoken about previously in the thread re: pest control, rats, etc.) how people feel about poisoning? I saw that a fair few people appear to advocate it (which I've always agreed with in comparison to indiscriminate forms of killing such snaring/trapping, etc.) however I was always under the impression that poisoning was a pretty wretched way of dealing with pests, especially in relation to how long they generally take to die and the amount that they suffer.


Suffer? What suffering? They feel cold and a bit unwell and go to their burrow to sleep it off and die. Don't feel sorry for them.



> Personally, I've had trouble with wild rats in the past but find it incredibly difficult to not associate such 'pests' with the pet rats that share my home. However that is very much my personal disposition and I wouldn't judge others who disagree, so my post isn't trying to generate any further debate or anything; I'm just wondering whether poisoning isn't as bad as I've always been led to believe?


 After my pet barn owl was attacked, badly bitten about her head and face and lost an eye to a rat attack one night, and this after I lost 5 little bantam hens to rats, my vet told me to stop being so bloody silly about poison and start baiting.
If you were attacked or your pet cat was killed by a pitbull, would you not want pitbulls to be illegal and put to sleep because they reminded you of your nan's pet little doggy who sits so sweetly on her lap?
Wild rats are vermin, plain and simple. They are not affectionate, they cause terrible problems to man an animal from weils/leptospirosis, they eat eggs from wild bird nests, kill nestlings and eat them, will gnaw the legs off a broody mallard and leave her to die, will kill poultry, rabbits and guinea pigs kept in hutches. And you feel sorry for them?
I keep pet rats and mice. I like my pet rats and mice. I poison their wild cousins with not one nano second's remorse.


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## pippainnit

fenwoman said:


> Suffer? What suffering? They feel cold and a bit unwell and go to their burrow to sleep it off and die. Don't feel sorry for them.
> 
> After my pet barn owl was attacked, badly bitten about her head and face and lost an eye to a rat attack one night, and this after I lost 5 little bantam hens to rats, my vet told me to stop being so bloody silly about poison and start baiting.
> If you were attacked or your pet cat was killed by a pitbull, would you not want pitbulls to be illegal and put to sleep because they reminded you of your nan's pet little doggy who sits so sweetly on her lap?
> Wild rats are vermin, plain and simple. They are not affectionate, they cause terrible problems to man an animal from weils/leptospirosis, they eat eggs from wild bird nests, kill nestlings and eat them, will gnaw the legs off a broody mallard and leave her to die, will kill poultry, rabbits and guinea pigs kept in hutches. And you feel sorry for them?
> I keep pet rats and mice. I like my pet rats and mice. I poison their wild cousins with not one nano second's remorse.


Sorry, I wasn't attempting to generate a debate. I was just always under the impression that poisoning was a horrific way to kill an animal (this is partly due to it just being ingrained in me from various people, including certain vets.) I'm not necessarily saying that I feel sorry for them. If I did then surely I would've been far more judgmental or holding of an opinion than my initial post would suggest. Rather I am simply hoping to be more enlightened by those who clearly have more first-hand experience of using such control methods as opposed to relying on other people's opinions, especially as many people on here clearly fundamentally care about animal welfare.

In regards to the pitbull example, then I can genuinely say that I would not want every other pitbull to be put down should one happen to kill a pet of mine. Obviously there are far more extenuating circumstances that could affect my opinion concerning something like that, but if it did boil down to an animal of mine being killed by a wild animal (which is more pertaining to the thread in question) then I honestly don't know how I would deal with it, which relates to me asking about the whole poisoning issue. Like I said, I would never judge people for addressing the issue as I'm too naive in the area for my opinion to hold much credibility in certain people's eyes, and I genuinely accept and appreciate that this is a day-to-day concern for some people that clearly requires a solution. Just personally I find it hard (regardless of their apparent polar differences) to differentiate between a wild rat and a pet rat, which is again just due to my own circumstances and experiences. 
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that it is an issue and further acknowledge that it's something that many people have to find ways to deal with, I'm just trying to further my understanding of the issue and the best way to deal with it.


----------



## fenwoman

pippainnit said:


> Sorry, I wasn't attempting to generate a debate. I was just always under the impression that poisoning was a horrific way to kill an animal (this is partly due to it just being ingrained in me from various people, including certain vets.) I'm not necessarily saying that I feel sorry for them. If I did then surely I would've been far more judgmental or holding of an opinion than my initial post would suggest. Rather I am simply hoping to be more enlightened by those who clearly have more first-hand experience of using such control methods as opposed to relying on other people's opinions, especially as many people on here clearly fundamentally care about animal welfare.
> 
> In regards to the pitbull example, then I can genuinely say that I would not want every other pitbull to be put down should one happen to kill a pet of mine. Obviously there are far more extenuating circumstances that could affect my opinion concerning something like that, but if it did boil down to an animal of mine being killed by a wild animal (which is more pertaining to the thread in question) then I honestly don't know how I would deal with it, which relates to me asking about the whole poisoning issue. Like I said, I would never judge people for addressing the issue as I'm too naive in the area for my opinion to hold much credibility in certain people's eyes, and I genuinely accept and appreciate that this is a day-to-day concern for some people that clearly requires a solution. Just personally I find it hard (regardless of their apparent polar differences) to differentiate between a wild rat and a pet rat, which is again just due to my own circumstances and experiences.
> Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that it is an issue and further acknowledge that it's something that many people have to find ways to deal with, I'm just trying to further my understanding of the issue and the best way to deal with it.


 Surely generating debate is the way to see all points of view and opinions, in order to make an informed choice?
I would be most interested to hear what argument your vet gave for not using rat bait.
There isn't just one sort of poison on the market either. There are so called humane ones (how can it be humane if the end result is the same-i.e.death?) which when eaten, swell in the rat's stomach and because it cannot eat food, because it has a solid mass in it's stomach, the thing starves to death over a matter of a week or more. How they can call that humane is beyond me.But I suppose it makes bunny huggers feel good about using it.
Then there are the multi feed poisons such as I use. One feed, won't cause death. The rat needs to take it in over the course of a week or more before it has taken in a fatal dose. One of the advantages as far as I can see it is that there is no secondary poisoning. So, for example, if a rat is feeling fit and running about above ground, it doesn't have a lethal amount of poison in it's body. So if a predatory animal catches and nibbles it, it'll not get poisoned. Since I keep cats, this is very important to me.It works by thinning the blood, not to the extent that it haemmorhages massively within hours, but to the extent that they start to feel cold and drowsy. This only after the week of feeding. When they feel cold and drowsy (much like we do if we aren't very well) they do much as we would, and go to bed to sleep it off. But in the case of the rat, they never wake up, they slip into a coma and die, supposedly from hypothermia.
Then there are the single dose poisons which I won't use in the normal course of things. One feeding will cause death within hours. This I believe is pretty nasty stuff which possibly causes pain.It will cause massive bleeding from every orifice, ears, eyes, mouth, anus, even through sweat glands and paw pads and I believe this is where they suffer, if only for a short time.
So there is not just one 'poisoning is cruel'. 
You have to control rats if you live with livestock. So do it as humanely and efficiently as possible with as few risks to non target species or predators. Humane traps are not humane. They cause immeasurable stress to a wild animal to be trapped. If you release it away from your land, you are not only removing it from it's own safe territory, but you are lacing it on other rats territory where it will be attacked and if not killed outright, then left to escape with terrible wounds to die slowly.
Live traps leave you with the dilemma of having to kill the rat. This should be done with no stress or fear to the animal. It may be vermin, but it's still aliving creature.Killing a terrified wild animal which is throwing itself about in alive trap, is almost impossible to do. Drowning is not only cruel, and slow, but illegal and rightly so.
Break neck traps are indiscriminate. Animals other than rats can be killed or injured in them.
Cat's will only catch a very small percentage of the rats. Certainly not enough to keep the numbers lower than the rate they breed at.
In conclusion, for my own part, all things considered, I use the poison which needs a week or so of feeding to kill it. I use the poison only in lockable bait boxes which only rats and smaller rodents can acess (actually once rats have used the box, the smell of them deters mice etc from using them since rats also kill and eat mice). 
And my choice on what to use to control them, is based on being able to target only rats.
The poisoned rats not being a danger to any predator who might catch and consume one.
The fact that no other animal will get killed or injured.
I don't have to try to kill an animal which is frantic and trying to get away from me.
The fact that I can kill a number of rats in one go, unlike a breakneck trap which gets one rat and no more until you remove the body and set it again.
It will work for weeks with no effort on my part other than to check and top up occasionally.
This means, few rats, eat less poison. If a population boom starts, they eat more poison, which I top up and keep on top of the problem.

Rat control is never ending. You never get rid of the rats and that's it, problems solved. You have just created empty territory until the next lot of rats discover it and ake up residence.
I hope all this has been of some use to you.


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## ....

bosshogg said:


> if you have nasty neighbours i wouldnt even though hens are quiter than cockreals when it comes to laying some hens are VERY VERY loud, actually my two hens are louder than the cock crowing when they are laying!


:hmm: I will speak to the neighbours and see what they think, they may have a shred of niceness in them.


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## LiamRatSnake

Yeah just kill all the rats, poison them  Dirty horrid things, still not caught any 

Fen do you raise your own meat rabbits? If so just wondering what breed(s)?


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## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Yeah just kill all the rats, poison them  Dirty horrid things, still not caught any
> 
> Fen do you raise your own meat rabbits? If so just wondering what breed(s)?


 I do keep meat rabbits and they are New Zealand whites.


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## pippainnit

fenwoman said:


> Surely generating debate is the way to see all points of view and opinions, in order to make an informed choice?
> I would be most interested to hear what argument your vet gave for not using rat bait.
> There isn't just one sort of poison on the market either. There are so called humane ones (how can it be humane if the end result is the same-i.e.death?) which when eaten, swell in the rat's stomach and because it cannot eat food, because it has a solid mass in it's stomach, the thing starves to death over a matter of a week or more. How they can call that humane is beyond me.But I suppose it makes bunny huggers feel good about using it.
> Then there are the multi feed poisons such as I use. One feed, won't cause death. The rat needs to take it in over the course of a week or more before it has taken in a fatal dose. One of the advantages as far as I can see it is that there is no secondary poisoning. So, for example, if a rat is feeling fit and running about above ground, it doesn't have a lethal amount of poison in it's body. So if a predatory animal catches and nibbles it, it'll not get poisoned. Since I keep cats, this is very important to me.It works by thinning the blood, not to the extent that it haemmorhages massively within hours, but to the extent that they start to feel cold and drowsy. This only after the week of feeding. When they feel cold and drowsy (much like we do if we aren't very well) they do much as we would, and go to bed to sleep it off. But in the case of the rat, they never wake up, they slip into a coma and die, supposedly from hypothermia.
> Then there are the single dose poisons which I won't use in the normal course of things. One feeding will cause death within hours. This I believe is pretty nasty stuff which possibly causes pain.It will cause massive bleeding from every orifice, ears, eyes, mouth, anus, even through sweat glands and paw pads and I believe this is where they suffer, if only for a short time.
> So there is not just one 'poisoning is cruel'.
> You have to control rats if you live with livestock. So do it as humanely and efficiently as possible with as few risks to non target species or predators. Humane traps are not humane. They cause immeasurable stress to a wild animal to be trapped. If you release it away from your land, you are not only removing it from it's own safe territory, but you are lacing it on other rats territory where it will be attacked and if not killed outright, then left to escape with terrible wounds to die slowly.
> Live traps leave you with the dilemma of having to kill the rat. This should be done with no stress or fear to the animal. It may be vermin, but it's still aliving creature.Killing a terrified wild animal which is throwing itself about in alive trap, is almost impossible to do. Drowning is not only cruel, and slow, but illegal and rightly so.
> Break neck traps are indiscriminate. Animals other than rats can be killed or injured in them.
> Cat's will only catch a very small percentage of the rats. Certainly not enough to keep the numbers lower than the rate they breed at.
> In conclusion, for my own part, all things considered, I use the poison which needs a week or so of feeding to kill it. I use the poison only in lockable bait boxes which only rats and smaller rodents can acess (actually once rats have used the box, the smell of them deters mice etc from using them since rats also kill and eat mice).
> And my choice on what to use to control them, is based on being able to target only rats.
> The poisoned rats not being a danger to any predator who might catch and consume one.
> The fact that no other animal will get killed or injured.
> I don't have to try to kill an animal which is frantic and trying to get away from me.
> The fact that I can kill a number of rats in one go, unlike a breakneck trap which gets one rat and no more until you remove the body and set it again.
> It will work for weeks with no effort on my part other than to check and top up occasionally.
> This means, few rats, eat less poison. If a population boom starts, they eat more poison, which I top up and keep on top of the problem.
> 
> Rat control is never ending. You never get rid of the rats and that's it, problems solved. You have just created empty territory until the next lot of rats discover it and ake up residence.
> I hope all this has been of some use to you.


That's all been really interesting to read, thank you. I didn't realise there were so many different forms of poisoning; I'd always thought that there was just a general poison largely used that caused death in a similar way to the latter one that you described, which is primarily where my understanding of poisoning being believed to cause suffering stemmed from. This was also the viewpoint that my vet held in relation to the haemorrhaging caused, etc. He did not explain to me that there were other potential forms of poison that could be used.
From what you've said, I can see why you stick to the method that you do, and that also helps to explain another issue that I initially had with poisoning in regards to its apparent detriment to other wildlife/creatures that are affected by it, so it's good to hear that this is not the case with all poisons.

Anyway, cheers for the info' and good luck with keeping them under control.


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> I do keep meat rabbits and they are New Zealand whites.


Cheers for that :2thumb:


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## fenwoman

pippainnit said:


> That's all been really interesting to read, thank you. I didn't realise there were so many different forms of poisoning; I'd always thought that there was just a general poison largely used that caused death in a similar way to the latter one that you described, which is primarily where my understanding of poisoning being believed to cause suffering stemmed from. This was also the viewpoint that my vet held in relation to the haemorrhaging caused, etc. He did not explain to me that there were other potential forms of poison that could be used.
> From what you've said, I can see why you stick to the method that you do, and that also helps to explain another issue that I initially had with poisoning in regards to its apparent detriment to other wildlife/creatures that are affected by it, so it's good to hear that this is not the case with all poisons.
> 
> Anyway, cheers for the info' and good luck with keeping them under control.


 I always say that knowledge is a wasted commodity unless it is shared. Glad to have been of help : victory:


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## vonnie

On the poisoning issue ...

I too find it hard to differentiate between wild rats and the pets I had for years. They are wildlife, just as foxes are.

BUT ... I chose to keep poultry, and as their owner I am responsible for their safety. It's that simple in my eyes. 

I've been lucky in that it's only in the last month I've had a problem with rats. But after recommendations on here I went straight out and bought bait without a second thought. If I hadn't been prepared to poison the rats then I would have felt I had to rehome the poultry - something I would never do.

I am not prepared to risk the safety of my birds, and particularly the safety of this year's chicks who would be very vulnerable.


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## Pimperella

upto the top lol
I've got incubators runnning at the moment! Yay!!!!

When it comes to Rats. I have my Pet Show Rats and then there are wild rats.

I love my Pet Rats to bits. Had rats for 25 years now. 
But wild Rtas, only good one is a dead one. Thankfully never had them here but on a farm we had our ponies on it was crawling. I would take my Jack Russell up in the evenings and let him loose while filling up hay nets and doing feeds and I would hear him running about in the dark with rats screatching as he killed them. The my Northern Inuit Dweezil, he had a go in the barn. Took the wolf hunting option and would stand listening to them rushing about under the straw and hay. He would stand stock still, then suddenly pounce, up and then slam down with his front feet, breaking their backs, then digging them out and dumping them at the side of me all proud.

Back when I was younger and working on farms. We used to get given a spade. 1 Lifting up things, the other with a spade. Then whack. Scoop up with spade into binbag for incinerating.


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## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> upto the top lol
> I've got incubators runnning at the moment! Yay!!!!
> 
> When it comes to Rats. I have my Pet Show Rats and then there are wild rats.
> 
> I love my Pet Rats to bits. Had rats for 25 years now.
> But wild Rtas, only good one is a dead one. Thankfully never had them here but on a farm we had our ponies on it was crawling. I would take my Jack Russell up in the evenings and let him loose while filling up hay nets and doing feeds and I would hear him running about in the dark with rats screatching as he killed them. The my Northern Inuit Dweezil, he had a go in the barn. Took the wolf hunting option and would stand listening to them rushing about under the straw and hay. He would stand stock still, then suddenly pounce, up and then slam down with his front feet, breaking their backs, then digging them out and dumping them at the side of me all proud.
> 
> Back when I was younger and working on farms. We used to get given a spade. 1 Lifting up things, the other with a spade. Then whack. Scoop up with spade into binbag for incinerating.


 Just getting the big incubator cleaned and ready for setting up on the 14th.


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## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> Just getting the big incubator cleaned and ready for setting up on the 14th.


 
I got 6 Croad Langshan Eggs!! Proper ones! and good breeding advice off the breeder who has won at shows. Paid more than I normally do for eggs but worth a punt so they say.


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## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> I got 6 Croad Langshan Eggs!! Proper ones! and good breeding advice off the breeder who has won at shows. Paid more than I normally do for eggs but worth a punt so they say.


I had some croads a few years back. I think they are very attractive birds. Got a nice framed print on my wall of croads.
I was reorganising my pens this morning too. Going to get rid of the arks and just use the large heras panel pens. I have on empty ready for my trio of barred Plymouth rocks. That makes 2 pens of those, one spare pen for the rumpless araucana large fowl and leave my odds and sods in the large layers pen.Got enough heras panels to build another 12X12 pen if I feel the need to keep another breed. So I have my Dutch bantams and Welsummer bantams to show. My large plymouth rocks, the large and bantam rumpless araucana and some normal bantam araucana and the odds and sods which are the ex batteries, a welsummer hen, a partridge cochin hen who is at least 12, some bantam wyandottes (buff laced and blue laced), an oeg bant hen, a pair of very tame silver laced sebrights who never lay eggs but I keep them because they are just so tame, and a trio of white silkies,plus the lavender barbu d' Anvers who roam loose and who are so tame that one sits on my welly as I milk, another sits on my head or shoulder and if I show visitors around, they fly up to sit on their shoulders too Lol.I counted up tonight that I have 4 large crossbred cockerels to kill and turn into soup or curry, a trio of white cochins to sell on. Then I'll get myself a turkey stag this year for the turkey hen who goes broody every year and of course I have my lavender and white muscovies too.
I went into the poultry houses tonight and ivomec'd all the birds so they go into the breeding season worm and louse free. Didn't do the cockerels though obviously as I'll be putting them in the freezer in the next week or so. I'd really like a trio fo something else though and it's a toss up between copper balck marans, or welsummers. I'm leaning towards welsummers since I already have them in bantam.It's a case of finding good enough quality for show though.
I might take a wander over to Melton Mowbray next month for the rare breeds sale and see if I pick something up there.


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## bosshogg

just muscovies down at the farm this year I think and the ducks do them there selfs, might do a very cream crested legbars not certain though 

friend has some scots dumpys wouldn't mind some of them :whistling2:


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## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> I had some croads a few years back. I think they are very attractive birds. Got a nice framed print on my wall of croads.


 
Aye, I wanted some last year but the price was too high for me to pay on eggs. Even still, just paid £15 for 6 now lol but last year they were going double and these have show winning parents so stand a better chance if they hatch, of having good ones. Will be keeping all that I do hatch as spare cockerals will go over some of my laying hens to seek that purple egg in a hybrid lol was thinking my bluebell as she lays pinkish lavender eggs lol


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## Pimperella

bosshogg said:


> just muscovies down at the farm this year I think and the ducks do them there selfs, might do a very cream crested legbars not certain though
> 
> friend has some scots dumpys wouldn't mind some of them :whistling2:


 
Again tho same as Japanese, you have the lethal short leg gene which kills off over 50% of developing embryos. Sometime you get lucky, sometimes non go full term.
But with Scots Dumpies. always put a short leg to a slightly longer leg. This gives better birds as 2 short legged increases the chance of dead developing chicks.


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## fenwoman

Blasted chickens.
I moved a load of my odds and sods layers from the shed they were using, back down the bottom into the big shed and pen last night. Had to carry them all one by one down there and find a perch for them to roost next to the hens they roosted next to in the old shed to make them secure.Kept the run closed all day and then mixed up a load of feed and had to go in to tip it into the big barrel feeder. I waited until 4pm and hoped they'd all be going to roost so I could nip in and out without any of the birds getting out but I wasn't fast enough through the gate and once several had got out, I had to leave the gate open so they could get back in again. Only 6 of them were determined to go and wait outside the closed door of their old shed so once again, in fading light, I had to grab them one by one and carry them back down the bottom and put them on the perches. I got all of them except one hamburgh cockerel who is determined to become fox food overnight.The beggar just would not be caught.
I'm not letting them out of the run for a week now so hopefully they'll all stay down the bottom and I can clean the shed out ready for my meat hybrids.
I do luffs my chickens, but they really aren't all that bright.And I still haven't set up the incubator.


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## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> Blasted chickens.
> I moved a load of my odds and sods layers from the shed they were using, back down the bottom into the big shed and pen last night. Had to carry them all one by one down there and find a perch for them to roost next to the hens they roosted next to in the old shed to make them secure.Kept the run closed all day and then mixed up a load of feed and had to go in to tip it into the big barrel feeder. I waited until 4pm and hoped they'd all be going to roost so I could nip in and out without any of the birds getting out but I wasn't fast enough through the gate and once several had got out, I had to leave the gate open so they could get back in again. Only 6 of them were determined to go and wait outside the closed door of their old shed so once again, in fading light, I had to grab them one by one and carry them back down the bottom and put them on the perches. I got all of them except one hamburgh cockerel who is determined to become fox food overnight.The beggar just would not be caught.
> I'm not letting them out of the run for a week now so hopefully they'll all stay down the bottom and I can clean the shed out ready for my meat hybrids.
> I do luffs my chickens, but they really aren't all that bright.And I still haven't set up the incubator.


 
We had 2 That when they became old enough to go in with the big flock, that would everynight for over a week. sit by the fence waiting to go back in their old coop. every night we picked them up and put them back in the big shed. They really aren't that clever that they would sit in the cold outside the gate in hiding lol


I have my incubators turning away lol
Need to get a high intensitiy candler for my maran eggs but 6/6 Japanese Bantams fertile and 6/6 Red Dorkings fertile!! wooooooohoooooooooooooooo!


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## fenwoman

To be honest I'm not in a great hurry to start hatching and get tied to the house for months on end caring for and cleaning out, chicks.I quite like hatching late on, so I have young stock to bring out at next seasons shows, all well grown, or to put in the March rare breeds sale at Melton where they always fetch over the top prices as city folks come out to buy their chickens when the weather gets nice and they start thinking about using their garden again :lol2:
I still have 5 cockerels to kill and shove in the freezer, one bit of pen section to move, then put Morgan and Mrs Morgan my large fowl rumpless araucana in that breeding pen and shed, leaving Mr Rumpie, the white rumpless and his missus to go into an ark. Then move Russell2 the barred Plymough rock and his 2 wives into their new pen (at present occupied by the 5 cockerels who are destined for the cold place), leaving only the white cochin pair which if I can't sell, sadly will kill and eat, and then get myself a trio or LF welsummers. Fun and games. Was seriously considering getting rid of all my Dutch bantam,s and getting some bantam Plymouth rocks as I do like them, but then I am very fond of my Dutchies. Eeeeh so many nice chickens and just not enough room for all I'd like to have.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> To be honest I'm not in a great hurry to start hatching and get tied to the house for months on end caring for and cleaning out, chicks.I quite like hatching late on, so I have young stock to bring out at next seasons shows, all well grown, or to put in the March rare breeds sale at Melton where they always fetch over the top prices as city folks come out to buy their chickens when the weather gets nice and they start thinking about using their garden again :lol2:
> I still have 5 cockerels to kill and shove in the freezer, one bit of pen section to move, then put Morgan and Mrs Morgan my large fowl rumpless araucana in that breeding pen and shed, leaving Mr Rumpie, the white rumpless and his missus to go into an ark. Then move Russell2 the barred Plymough rock and his 2 wives into their new pen (at present occupied by the 5 cockerels who are destined for the cold place), leaving only the white cochin pair which if I can't sell, sadly will kill and eat, and then get myself a trio or LF welsummers. Fun and games. Was seriously considering getting rid of all my Dutch bantam,s and getting some bantam Plymouth rocks as I do like them, but then I am very fond of my Dutchies. Eeeeh so many nice chickens and just not enough room for all I'd like to have.


 
I started hatching a tad later this year due to the weather but we normaly start hatching early so that the weather is better for them when they are old enough to go outside and so they are well grown on by the time this northern weather turns. 
Any hatched later I have to use heated sheds for so try to hatch a lot less later in the season.
I hatch for me and the kids and not really bothered about sales and prices etc. Just what me and the kids and now hubby want.
Hubby is currently searching for 2 Dark Brahma Hens (LF) to go with his lovely big Cockeral 'Mr President'

If I could get to you I'd have your White Cochins!!


----------



## vonnie

I've found the prices much higher in February than September at the Carlisle rare breeds auction too.

Lots of quite silly prices, and lots of very dressed up buyers who don't seem particularly clued up and go for the 'pretty colours'. Not that I'm an expert but I've seen what even I can see are poor examples go for daft money!

They've added an extra sale in April this year too, so I'll see what prices are like at that one.

Used to be that it was large fowl, and then bantams. With up to 1000 lots everyone would spend up early on and get bored, so I could hang on till nearer the end and get bargains like my pekins. Sadly they changed it so it's LF in one saleroom and bantams in the other now, so no such luck. Plus if you want to bid on both it's a pain rushing between the two rooms.

I'm almost full up here, but if there are any bantam faverolles in the catalogue for the end of this month I'm sure I can make room for them !


----------



## Pimperella

vonnie said:


> I've found the prices much higher in February than September at the Carlisle rare breeds auction too.
> 
> Lots of quite silly prices, and lots of very dressed up buyers who don't seem particularly clued up and go for the 'pretty colours'. Not that I'm an expert but I've seen what even I can see are poor examples go for daft money!
> 
> They've added an extra sale in April this year too, so I'll see what prices are like at that one.
> 
> Used to be that it was large fowl, and then bantams. With up to 1000 lots everyone would spend up early on and get bored, so I could hang on till nearer the end and get bargains like my pekins. Sadly they changed it so it's LF in one saleroom and bantams in the other now, so no such luck. Plus if you want to bid on both it's a pain rushing between the two rooms.
> 
> I'm almost full up here, but if there are any bantam faverolles in the catalogue for the end of this month I'm sure I can make room for them !


There were some Bantam Salmon Fav eggs on ebay the other day.


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> I started hatching a tad later this year due to the weather but we normaly start hatching early so that the weather is better for them when they are old enough to go outside and so they are well grown on by the time this northern weather turns.
> Any hatched later I have to use heated sheds for so try to hatch a lot less later in the season.
> I hatch for me and the kids and not really bothered about sales and prices etc. Just what me and the kids and now hubby want.
> Hubby is currently searching for 2 Dark Brahma Hens (LF) to go with his lovely big Cockeral 'Mr President'
> 
> If I could get to you I'd have your White Cochins!!


 I'd do swapsies. Cochins for some of those rubber backed rugs.


----------



## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> I've found the prices much higher in February than September at the Carlisle rare breeds auction too.
> 
> Lots of quite silly prices, and lots of very dressed up buyers who don't seem particularly clued up and go for the 'pretty colours'. Not that I'm an expert but I've seen what even I can see are poor examples go for daft money!
> 
> They've added an extra sale in April this year too, so I'll see what prices are like at that one.
> 
> Used to be that it was large fowl, and then bantams. With up to 1000 lots everyone would spend up early on and get bored, so I could hang on till nearer the end and get bargains like my pekins. Sadly they changed it so it's LF in one saleroom and bantams in the other now, so no such luck. Plus if you want to bid on both it's a pain rushing between the two rooms.
> 
> I'm almost full up here, but if there are any bantam faverolles in the catalogue for the end of this month I'm sure I can make room for them !


 It's always the same in Spring sales. People start panic buying or wanting to get birds ready to breed or lay in the nicer weather so they try to outbid each other. I like townies bidding cos they seem determined to make a point. It's like they want to show us thick farmers that they have so much more money than we do and will get what the want no matter what it costs. I run the buggers up.
I will buy in the autumn sales and keep over the winter, then sell the same birds in the spring sales.
I've seen pens of 'welsummer' pullets (which are always popular and expensive) go for £35 per bird and when you look at them, they aren't even pure bred. What welsummers have feathered legs?
But then I see people seeling dark brown 'welsummer' eggs. Welsummer eggs aren't supposed to be dark brown, but somewhere the myth started and now loads of newbies believe it. So the 'Welsummers' with feathered legs were no doubt crossed with copper black marans in order to get them laying a dark brown eggs. A proper Welsummer egg is beautiful. It's a teracotta colour with russet splodges and speckles on, like if someone has taken a paint brush with red oxide paint, and just flicked it over the eggs. If it's dark brown or has no speckles, it doesn't come from a Welsummer.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Just got word on an allotment plot I've had my eye on  Going down for a meeting with them in 2 weeks, if all goes well I'll be getting some meat chicks, yum. Getting 5 eggs at the moment, although one silly hen has started dumping them in the run... :bash: She seems to be struggling at the moment with shifting them. Found her squatting a minute ago so shoved her in the nest box, fingers crossed.
Another one laid for the first time today, went into the coop, jumped up on the perch and laid it. She then proceeded to make a nest, the dozy cow. 2 hens lay underneath the perches and one just outside the nest box. How hard is it to lay in the right place? I get one in the nest boxes per day, if I'm lucky.


----------



## vonnie

Well not one of my lazy madams has laid yet this year!

I reckon they're having the poultry equivalent of a stare out, all determined not to be the first :lol2:

Typical about the eggs on ebay. Every time I had broodies waiting last year there were only LF available. I'll keep an eye out again now though.


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## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> Well not one of my lazy madams has laid yet this year!
> 
> I reckon they're having the poultry equivalent of a stare out, all determined not to be the first :lol2:
> 
> Typical about the eggs on ebay. Every time I had broodies waiting last year there were only LF available. I'll keep an eye out again now though.


I'm gonna be spending a fortune one ebay once I get my incubator next month  Thinking of some cream legbars, as Laura says I can cull the cocks and grow on the hens. Plus, blue eggs :mf_dribble:


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## vonnie

I've only got one legbar left now, but I do love those blue eggs. The few people I sell my eggs to are always disappointed if there isn't one in the box!


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## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> I've only got one legbar left now, but I do love those blue eggs. The few people I sell my eggs to are always disappointed if there isn't one in the box!


Heh heh heh, I need something to break the monotony of brown eggs in the boxes/bowl. They don't look organic enough unless there's a mixture of colours.

I've just stuck a well oiled gloved finger up a chicken's arse :gasp: I never expected to be doing that. She's struggling to pass this egg bless her, it's only her second one. She's settled down next to my bed in a box nice and warm with a greasy floo. I'll bath her in a bit if she doesn't get it out.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Just got word on an allotment plot I've had my eye on  Going down for a meeting with them in 2 weeks, if all goes well I'll be getting some meat chicks, yum. Getting 5 eggs at the moment, although one silly hen has started dumping them in the run... :bash: She seems to be struggling at the moment with shifting them. Found her squatting a minute ago so shoved her in the nest box, fingers crossed.
> Another one laid for the first time today, went into the coop, jumped up on the perch and laid it. She then proceeded to make a nest, the dozy cow. 2 hens lay underneath the perches and one just outside the nest box. How hard is it to lay in the right place? I get one in the nest boxes per day, if I'm lucky.


How many hens are there and how many nestboxes? If one is having problems shifting the eggs, you need to look to adding calcium to their feed. I know layers is supposed to have everything in but some hens need more than what's in the layers. Add a bit of limestone flour. Are you giving them planey of fresh fruit and veg? At this time of year a cabbage or couple of apples put in the run daily is very beneficial.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Heh heh heh, I need something to break the monotony of brown eggs in the boxes/bowl. They don't look organic enough unless there's a mixture of colours.
> 
> I've just stuck a well oiled gloved finger up a chicken's arse :gasp: I never expected to be doing that. She's struggling to pass this egg bless her, it's only her second one. She's settled down next to my bed in a box nice and warm with a greasy floo. I'll bath her in a bit if she doesn't get it out.


You are lucky not to have killed her. If a hen is eggbound, what you don't do is insert anything into the vent. Had you cracked the egg, she'd have died a slow and painful death. She needs calcium and fast. Bathing her won't help pass the egg either. That's another old wives tale. It wouldn't help you to poo if you were constipated would it? If she has an egg stuck, you have no more than 2 days to have it out or you have to neck her. The stuck egg means she cannot pass faeces or urates and so will take a week or more to die a horrible death of blood poisoning due to toxins building up inside her. Egg binding is serious!!!


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## Pimperella

Anyone coming your way fen and passing manchester on the way back? I'd just post you a load of matts.

But I would love the cochin pair for hubby.

Currently trying to find hubby a couple of Dark Brahma hens for his lovely boy.


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> You are lucky not to have killed her. If a hen is eggbound, what you don't do is insert anything into the vent. Had you cracked the egg, she'd have died a slow and painful death. She needs calcium and fast. Bathing her won't help pass the egg either. That's another old wives tale. It wouldn't help you to poo if you were constipated would it? If she has an egg stuck, you have no more than 2 days to have it out or you have to neck her. The stuck egg means she cannot pass faeces or urates and so will take a week or more to die a horrible death of blood poisoning due to toxins building up inside her. Egg binding is serious!!!


Well all I had to go on was what I had in books with noone to ask as the time so I scoured all the forums for some info. Anyway I can't feel the egg so not sure if it's stuck, I just assumed as she spent 2-3 hours in the nest box pushing and squatting and nothing was coming, all the hens have fresh fruit and veg daily, as well as mixed grit and oyster shell. All I did with the oil was smear it over her vent, which is pulsating like she's pushing. She had a big poo about an hour ago so that's not blocked. She's also not lost her appetite and is drinking well.

Any advice on what I can do will help. She's asleep at the moment. I have some limestone flour for the torts is there any way I can get it in her? She's the one who dropped an egg in the run yesterday.


Like I say, I can't see or feel any eggs, but her bum looks big.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Well all I had to go on was what I had in books with noone to ask as the time so I scoured all the forums for some info. Anyway I can't feel the egg so not sure if it's stuck, I just assumed as she spent 2-3 hours in the nest box pushing and squatting and nothing was coming, all the hens have fresh fruit and veg daily, as well as mixed grit and oyster shell. All I did with the oil was smear it over her vent, which is pulsating like she's pushing. She had a big poo about an hour ago so that's not blocked. She's also not lost her appetite and is drinking well.
> 
> Any advice on what I can do will help. She's asleep at the moment. I have some limestone flour for the torts is there any way I can get it in her? She's the one who dropped an egg in the run yesterday.
> 
> 
> Like I say, I can't see or feel any eggs, but her bum looks big.


if she has only just started laying she'll take a while to get into a routine. Have you enough nest boxes so that the hen right down the bottom of the pecking order can go in, and be far away from the top hen? She won't dare go in if the boss hen is already in situ. If she is pooping, she is not egg bound. What feed are you giving her at the moment? You can add the limestone flour by mixing it with the feed and adding a little cod liver oil to make it stick to the feed.
An hen's vent will pulsate. It's what they do. I say they are blowing kisses which is what it looks like :lol2:
Have you got the Katie Thear book 'Starting with chickens'? If not, I recommend you get it as it'll save a lot of messing about and worrying unecessarily. Had you just PM'd Pimps or me, we could have told you that she wasn't egg bound or warned you not to go internal if there was a chance that she was. Both of us are pretty experienced poultry keepers.
Another trick you might try is to pop a golf ball or pot egg in the nest box to get the newbies to learn where they need to go to lay.Beginners often take a little while to get into the swing of things, learn to know when an egg is coming and get into the nest box well beforehand. But she won't if there aren't enough nest box spaces.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> if she has only just started laying she'll take a while to get into a routine. Have you enough nest boxes so that the hen right down the bottom of the pecking order can go in, and be far away from the top hen? She won't dare go in if the boss hen is already in situ. If she is pooping, she is not egg bound. What feed are you giving her at the moment? You can add the limestone flour by mixing it with the feed and adding a little cod liver oil to make it stick to the feed.
> An hen's vent will pulsate. It's what they do. I say they are blowing kisses which is what it looks like :lol2:
> Have you got the Katie Thear book 'Starting with chickens'? If not, I recommend you get it as it'll save a lot of messing about and worrying unecessarily. Had you just PM'd Pimps or me, we could have told you that she wasn't egg bound or warned you not to go internal if there was a chance that she was. Both of us are pretty experienced poultry keepers.
> Another trick you might try is to pop a golf ball or pot egg in the nest box to get the newbies to learn where they need to go to lay.Beginners often take a little while to get into the swing of things, learn to know when an egg is coming and get into the nest box well beforehand. But she won't if there aren't enough nest box spaces.


Pm'd you.


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Pm'd you.


 
I might not be at pc all the time when it's on but hun, next time just ring me. even if I am ill I will always help if you need it, even if something you might think is silly or stupid. Always here to help.
xx
Glad it turned out ok. The stress of new layers eh?


God I am on pins!!!!!! My first hatch is due 26th Feb! So excited!!! I am every year! It never goes stale lol and the first hatch of the season is always the most egerly awaited.


Then for next month I have to decide which 4 breeds I'm doing for school (6 eggs of each or few more if bantams) as we are loaning an Incubator to primary school with me doing all the full talks for the class aswell and working with them through everything.


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## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> I might not be at pc all the time when it's on but hun, next time just ring me. even if I am ill I will always help if you need it, even if something you might think is silly or stupid. Always here to help.
> xx
> Glad it turned out ok. The stress of new layers eh?
> 
> 
> God I am on pins!!!!!! My first hatch is due 26th Feb! So excited!!! I am every year! It never goes stale lol and the first hatch of the season is always the most egerly awaited.
> 
> 
> Then for next month I have to decide which 4 breeds I'm doing for school (6 eggs of each or few more if bantams) as we are loaning an Incubator to primary school with me doing all the full talks for the class aswell and working with them through everything.


I will next time, I didn't think to be honest, I was too busy panicking, she's been fine all day, I found an egg earlier too in the cat box, she must have gone back in and laid it as me and lucy checked this morning. Yeah, she's fine now, no problems. I can't believe it, you know how ill she got.
Thanks for all the help Laura.

On another note, how are my lovely duckies and Kim n Aggie? Argh, I do miss them and Kim's eggs, they were flippin huge. I really hope they're behaving themselves the little terrors.
I've also stolen your idea, me and the missus where talking about when I get my bator, I'm gonna lend it to the school with some eggs to hatch then take them all home again. I think I'm going for legbars although I'm not looking forward to culling the cocks, but the snakes will get a good few meals, so nothing wasted.

Get well soon : victory: And I can't thank you enough, becoming a bit of a habit, you helping me out LOL


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## bosshogg

everyone decided what there growing this year, Im growing, salad leaves, herbs, tom's, as well as the fruit trees that are already out there! 

was gutted this week when I went by my damson tree and :censor: council have cut it down :gasp: was gutted, it was such a good fruiter, so tescos had some trees in including damson so I bought one, will be a few years for a good crop but well worth the wait and no chance of some :censor: cutting it down


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> everyone decided what there growing this year, Im growing, salad leaves, herbs, tom's, as well as the fruit trees that are already out there!
> 
> was gutted this week when I went by my damson tree and :censor: council have cut it down :gasp: was gutted, it was such a good fruiter, so tescos had some trees in including damson so I bought one, will be a few years for a good crop but well worth the wait and no chance of some :censor: cutting it down


We got 3 carrier bags of damsens a few months ago from the local park they're soooooooooo much better than plums.

This year we're upping our herb growing, planting a few fruit trees, getting the berry trees/grape vines planted in the soil and out of pots, getting the potato pots ready, planting the strawberries and adding some more. Collecting the beans from last year at the moment to plant. We'll be doing some more radishes, cabbages ect Nothing more than last year really apart from the fruit trees. Gonna up the rocket and the nasturtiums this year as everyone got a taste for them and they didn't last long.


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## bosshogg

mmm i love nasturtiums ! same with pansys great to add something different to the summer salads! 

was thinking of growing some pots in black bins, but not sure as would have to give most away as Rich doesnt eat healthy and would be to much just for me :lol2:


----------



## Pimperella

bosshogg said:


> everyone decided what there growing this year, Im growing, salad leaves, herbs, tom's, as well as the fruit trees that are already out there!
> 
> was gutted this week when I went by my damson tree and :censor: council have cut it down :gasp: was gutted, it was such a good fruiter, so tescos had some trees in including damson so I bought one, will be a few years for a good crop but well worth the wait and no chance of some :censor: cutting it down


 

Tescos have fruit trees for £7! If anyone is interested. Apple, pear, plum, Cherry few others. I'm going pick up a few each shop lol


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## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> mmm i love nasturtiums ! same with pansys great to add something different to the summer salads!
> 
> was thinking of growing some pots in black bins, but not sure as would have to give most away as Rich doesnt eat healthy and would be to much just for me :lol2:


lol it's worth it though and dead easy, just keep topping the soil as shoots appear. I love nasturtiums, they're more peppery than watercress with the lovely almost sweet flowers. Yum. Torts love em too.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Tescos have fruit trees for £7! If anyone is interested. Apple, pear, plum, Cherry few others. I'm going pick up a few each shop lol


Ohhhh..... They're £20-30 in the local garden centre. Will have to have a look.


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## bosshogg

thats were i got my damson there only whips but given a few years they will be perfect


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## vonnie

I'm so flippin disorganised this year that I've not even ordered my veg seeds yet! Now the skinny pigs are here I'll be growing even more salad leaves etc to keep them as well as us supplied too.

I really miss my raspberries and rhubarb, but can't bring myself to plant anything like that when I'm hoping to move. Am bugging the OH to go and view a house nearby that's just come up with a big garden, and little wooded area AND an orchard. As usual he's not keen, and the house looks pretty horrible inside, but the mind boggles at what I could do with all that space!


----------



## Ally

Pimperella said:


> Tescos have fruit trees for £7! If anyone is interested. Apple, pear, plum, Cherry few others. I'm going pick up a few each shop lol


:gasp:

I'll have to go have a looksie! I need smallish ones because they'll have to cope in pots for probably the next year or so while I'm renting, but if I can get them a bit bigger for when I have somewhere decent to plant them...

mmm... my own cherries :flrt:


----------



## bosshogg

Ally said:


> :gasp:
> 
> I'll have to go have a looksie! I need smallish ones because they'll have to cope in pots for probably the next year or so while I'm renting, but if I can get them a bit bigger for when I have somewhere decent to plant them...
> 
> mmm... my own cherries :flrt:


I grow all my fruit trees in pots, I keep them well pruned and well fertilized through the summer, well I say pots there huge!


----------



## Ally

bosshogg said:


> I grow all my fruit trees in pots, I keep them well pruned and well fertilized through the summer, well I say pots there huge!


This is good news indeed! I can get big strong boys to move things for me when I move house, but I'd hate to have to part with my trees once I have them!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

We're nipping up later to check it out.  Already cleared a space in the back for our fruit trees, Might put some in the chicken run, just as decoration and something fun for the birds with the low fruits. I can see them being well fertilized too


----------



## Tommy123

Hey all,
Not sure if any of you have read my thread about my baby chooks? Well, I've got about 15 chicks in my new hatchmaker! There all pekin, but various colours such as reds, lavender, blue and some others. This is out first hatch this year, and our first hatch in the hatchmaker, so quite exciting!
Tom


----------



## vonnie

Since I got the OH a load of brewing gear as his Xmas prezzie he's gone homebrew mad so every time I walk the dog now I'm on the lookout for sloes, damsons etc. 

Already have a spot marked to get all my elderflowers and having watched a repeat of an old River Cottage where they made it, I'm looking forward to giving elderflower champagne a go.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> Since I got the OH a load of brewing gear as his Xmas prezzie he's gone homebrew mad so every time I walk the dog now I'm on the lookout for sloes, damsons etc.
> 
> Already have a spot marked to get all my elderflowers and having watched a repeat of an old River Cottage where they made it, I'm looking forward to giving elderflower champagne a go.


Elderflower champagne is lovely, my Dad did some for his wedding. It'll never compare to a real wine, but lovely nonetheless. I fancy doing some sloe gin, as a real gin lover, but I don't know what sloe berries look like lol

Just googled them, they look like small damsons, I might keep an eye out and infuse them in a nice gin.


----------



## bosshogg

LiamRatSnake said:


> Elderflower champagne is lovely, my Dad did some for his wedding. It'll never compare to a real wine, but lovely nonetheless. I fancy doing some sloe gin, as a real gin lover, but I don't know what sloe berries look like lol
> 
> Just googled them, they look like small damsons, I might keep an eye out and infuse them in a nice gin.


I make Sloe whisky/gin/brandy and Damson the same, have also made damson Wine, and elderberry Wine :2thumb:

Sloes come from the Prunus Spinosa, or Blackthorn bush


----------



## LiamRatSnake

bosshogg said:


> I make Sloe whisky/gin/brandy and Damson the same, have also made damson Wine, and elderberry Wine :2thumb:
> 
> Sloes come from the Prunus Spinosa, or Blackthorn bush


Ohhhhhh a sloe brandy :mf_dribble: I love sloe gin out of a bottle, and have tried home made once, it was so much better. So can you use damsons, being a bit sweeter? Hmmmm... That'd be brilliant.


----------



## Ally

bosshogg said:


> I make Sloe whisky/gin/brandy and Damson the same, have also made damson Wine, and elderberry Wine :2thumb:
> 
> Sloes come from the Prunus Spinosa, or Blackthorn bush


I did sloe vodka and my mum did gin last year, they were both good but I think I liked the vodka a little better 

I need a good recipe for elderberry wine - I have loads of the bloomin' things in the freezer still!


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Me and my OH are looking to get her dad a homebrew kit, anyone recommend a good starter kit? 
This one looks good, we've got a few brewing books. Brew your own Woodfordes Wherry Micro Brewery


----------



## diamondlil

Tommy123 said:


> Hey all,
> Not sure if any of you have read my thread about my baby chooks? Well, I've got about 15 chicks in my new hatchmaker! There all pekin, but various colours such as reds, lavender, blue and some others. This is out first hatch this year, and our first hatch in the hatchmaker, so quite exciting!
> Tom


Any pictures of them yet?


----------



## bosshogg

Ally said:


> I did sloe vodka and my mum did gin last year, they were both good but I think I liked the vodka a little better
> 
> I need a good recipe for elderberry wine - I have loads of the bloomin' things in the freezer still!


I used this one Wine Making - Elderberry Wine Recipe, Making Your Own Wine, Low Cost Living : victory:


----------



## Ally

bosshogg said:


> I used this one Wine Making - Elderberry Wine Recipe, Making Your Own Wine, Low Cost Living : victory:


Brilliant, thanks!


----------



## vonnie

The starter brewing kit I got for the OH was the ibrew beginners bitter kit. Lucky me I got the last one from www.thebrewshop.com . The guy told me they can no longer get it because they'd done an exclusive deal. I'm sure he said with Asda, although I've not seen homebrew stuff in our local one.

We get all our bits and bobs now from Wilkinsons, but not all the stores have a homebrew section. If you can find one that does it's very cheap!


----------



## Tommy123

diamondlil said:


> Any pictures of them yet?


No, sorry, going to get some up when they come out of the incubator!


----------



## bosshogg

awww we need pics! deff for the ones that are not hatching this year! I love having chicks


----------



## Tommy123

Ok, here are some pictures, sorry if there big!...








A partridge pekin.








Two red pekins about to kiss!! Awww! hehe.








And some of the others!
Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Mirf

Oh bless:flrt::flrt:


----------



## Shell195

Very cute:flrt:


----------



## Tommy123

Mirf said:


> Oh bless:flrt::flrt:





Shell195 said:


> Very cute:flrt:


Thankyouu:flrt: I can hear them right now, chirping away!:2thumb:

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Mirf

Shell195 said:


> Very cute:flrt:


I saw them first and get first dibs on the chick napping.....did I just type that out loud?......damn:bash::lol2:


----------



## Tommy123

Mirf said:


> I saw them first and get first dibs on the chick napping.....did I just type that out loud?......damn:bash::lol2:


GAH! *goes to protect little chikky wickkys*:blush: You'll have to get past me first:Na_Na_Na_Na::whistling2:


----------



## Mirf

Tommy123 said:


> GAH! *goes to protect little chikky wickkys*:blush: You'll have to get past me first:Na_Na_Na_Na::whistling2:


Easy. I'm old, so I only have to threaten you with a 'spit wash' and you'll run for the hills:lol2:


----------



## bosshogg

I love pekins with there fluffy feet :flrt: I had a trio of blacks, would love some blues :mf_dribble:

I have just got the cream crested legbars, but there going to my friends on hoilday while i sort the garden out and build them a new pen :no1:


----------



## Tommy123

bosshogg said:


> I love pekins with there fluffy feet :flrt: I had a trio of blacks, would love some blues :mf_dribble:
> 
> I have just got the cream crested legbars, but there going to my friends on hoilday while i sort the garden out and build them a new pen :no1:


Aye' I got some blues:whistling2: Just a pity your so far away, I will have some for sale. 
Tom8)


----------



## Shell195

My friend has Pekin hens and has just bought a cockerel for them, they are such sweet little birds:flrt:


----------



## Tommy123

Shell195 said:


> My friend has Pekin hens and has just bought a cockerel for them, they are such sweet little birds:flrt:


:flrt::flrt:
What colour?

Cheers,
Tom8)


----------



## Tommy123

Not sure if this is appropriate(sp) in this thread, by anyway.. just sold 6 red peking hatching eggs for £10.50, and 6 gold partridge pekin for £8.27 :2thumb: Not too bad eh?

Tom8)


----------



## Shell195

Tommy123 said:


> :flrt::flrt:
> What colour?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom8)


 
The hens are black mottled and the cock is millefleur


----------



## Tommy123

Shell195 said:


> The hens are black mottled and the cock is millefleur


I have some mottled chicks:flrt: One of my favourite colours:flrt::flrt:

Tom8)


----------



## fenwoman

I'm off to visit a friend on Friday to collect a bantam welsummer cockerel to replacve 'Wesley small' who sadly died in the cold weather. The cockerel is from my own lines so I'm keeping my strain of winning birds and not having to chance a complete outcroos yay.:2thumb:
I'm giving him one of my crele dutch bantams in return.
Bob also has Croad langshans, and Brahmas and specialises in Pekins and has not only the largest range of colours in the UK, but stunning quality too. I shall have a nice afternoon catching up with the gossip.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> I'm off to visit a friend on Friday to collect a bantam welsummer cockerel to replacve 'Wesley small' who sadly died in the cold weather. The cockerel is from my own lines so I'm keeping my strain of winning birds and not having to chance a complete outcroos yay.:2thumb:
> I'm giving him one of my crele dutch bantams in return.
> Bob also has *Croad langshans, and Brahmas* and specialises in Pekins and has not only the largest range of colours in the UK, but stunning quality too. I shall have a nice afternoon catching up with the gossip.


 

oooooooooooooooooooooooo I have 6 Croad Langshan eggs in the bator at the mo! The original breeding stock of the person I got my eggs off is Clare Curtis.
I'm after getting a few other batches of Croads eggs to hatch. 
And Brahmas, I'm looking for a couple of Dark Brahma hens as we got given a Dark cokeral who was smuggled in as I was getting hens and somehow ended up with 2 half starved youngsters stuffed in while I was wasn't looking! One was sooo bad he died that night, the other, hubby nursed back to health, handfeeding and caring for him. He's hubby's fave, follows him round, jumps up on his lap for a hug. So really would like to get a couple of Dark lf girls for him.


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> oooooooooooooooooooooooo I have 6 Croad Langshan eggs in the bator at the mo! The original breeding stock of the person I got my eggs off is Clare Curtis.
> I'm after getting a few other batches of Croads eggs to hatch.


He won at a big show with his croads but I can't remember which he said now. 


> And Brahmas, I'm looking for a couple of Dark Brahma hens as we got given a Dark cokeral who was smuggled in as I was getting hens and somehow ended up with 2 half starved youngsters stuffed in while I was wasn't looking! One was sooo bad he died that night, the other, hubby nursed back to health, handfeeding and caring for him. He's hubby's fave, follows him round, jumps up on his lap for a hug. So really would like to get a couple of Dark lf girls for him.


Will see what Brahmas he has and if any for sale if you want. He's near Oakham in Rutland though so it might be too far for you.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> He won at a big show with his croads but I can't remember which he said now.
> 
> Will see what Brahmas he has and if any for sale if you want. He's near Oakham in Rutland though so it might be too far for you.


 
Depends. If it's my only option I'll get a courier lol
Was thinking that about your white Cochins. Thinking about how much it'll cost. Could always parcel force/DHL loads of rugs down lol


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> Depends. If it's my only option I'll get a courier lol
> Was thinking that about your white Cochins. Thinking about how much it'll cost. Could always parcel force/DHL loads of rugs down lol


pfft be cheaper to find a breeder closer to you and buy some lol.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> pfft be cheaper to find a breeder closer to you and buy some lol.


A real Breeder? Near me? lol Your having a laugh lol

We have money bandwagon jumpers lol 

Got a few really good breeders up here but not the breeds I am looking for tho.


----------



## vonnie

Just had notification the Carlisle sale catalogue's out. Over 1700 lots !

Had a quick peek but loads and loads more hatching eggs and equipment than usual, so perhaps not more birds. I'll have a good read later at home but here's the link in case anyone else is thinking of going

http://homepage.mac.com/tumpline/100220poultry.pdf

Strangely they've done the breeds in reverse alphabetical this time! Suppose it makes sense to alternate though as the earlier pens always seem to fetch the higher prices. This way if I want more Australorps or Brahmas they'll be at the end this time when most have spent up and gone home!


----------



## bosshogg

I haven't been to the poultry sale this year dont trust myself either will come back with chickens or rabbits Im such a sucker for them when no one wants them brought home a pair of black pekins for £1 as I felt sorry for them :lol2:

Really hope it drys up soon I really need to get out there and clean the garden up! so I can get stuff planted


----------



## fenwoman

I'm trying to make my mind up whether to go to the Melton Mowbray rare breeds sale on the 27th March.I shouldn't really as I don't need anything but I might do on the offchance there are some Plymouth rocks.


----------



## bosshogg

we have York rare sale in march/april but you get lots of townies and some prices go sky high for the fluffy chickens e.g buff orps £200 a pair, then you get pheasant fowl £7 a pair!silly really dont go very often as its so busy you cant see into the pens very well and the townies really grate on my nerves


----------



## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> we have York rare sale in march/april but you get lots of townies and some prices go sky high for the fluffy chickens e.g buff orps £200 a pair, then you get pheasant fowl £7 a pair!silly really dont go very often as its so busy you cant see into the pens very well and the townies really grate on my nerves


 Yeah it's the same at Melton. I've seen Welsummer crosses get sold as welsummers. A pen of 3 pullets went for £120. Bloody daft townies. Still it means that the stuff I'm interested in, go for next to nothing, like my rumpless araucanas which I bought for £15 for LF trio and the same for the bantam pair.
Oddly enough, the topic of conversation this afternoon at the 'Thursday club' (regulars in the market cafe waiting for the produce auction to start)was flipping townies and their odd ways.:whistling2::lol2:


----------



## vonnie

Know what you mean. It's a nightmare as it gets more and more packed every time with people who just get in the flippiin way!

Honestly, some of these people treat it like some sort of poultry zoo. They crawl round the pens at snail's pace with their pushchairs stopping to show the children every few paces. And it's busy, as in jostling to get near some of the cages as it is.

Or they get there early, grab seats (of which there are very few) and get their picnic baskets out!!!!! And I swear they have no intention of bidding on anything.

Saw a lone lavender orp go for £70 last year and it was an appalling example - in fact I wouldn't even have called it a lavender or an orp :lol2: 

There again I can't really talk as I always take pity on lone hens, which is how I came home with a black orp and a pheasant fowl last year!

I'm going to be under strict instructions NOT to buy this time, but we'll see :whistling2:


----------



## Pimperella

Yup, Townies price drive on the latest craze.

Next Clithroe Rare breed sale is in April. 

But one just gone they had Alan Proctors Retirement sale and trios of his Bantam white dottes were going £540!


Last rare breed sale I was at. I got a stunning pair of Bantam Buff Sussex for £5. Just because no one else bid (ooo Boring birds) they are stunning! Then a mate of mine off the poultry forum came over to say 'you just bought them sussex for a fiver?' yup 'You do know they are really good birds don't you and you got a bloody bargain?' Yup. 
And they are. Real cracking birds. 
However, I have found that Townies for some reason, come up to me asking questions on breeds and what they should go for lol Why Me? Do I look that much like a Poultry farmer? lol Ok with Custom Poultry Carriers lol

I mainly buy eggs when I go, have a mass fill of the big bator lol 
Means I have many to pick from specially if I can get legbars as auto sexing means I can cull cock chicks and rear all the lovely hens on lol
And cock chicks go down nicely with my 2 Corns and Royal lol 
I swear Baby (6ft Bloodred Corn) got so used to being through cock chicks she would be waiting at front of the viv eveytime I openned the bator to turn eggs lol


----------



## diamondlil

I'm sure the people who sell to the 'townies' at high prices don't complain, and it probably goes a long way to subsidising their breeding of the less fashionable breeds too!


----------



## Pimperella

diamondlil said:


> I'm sure the people who sell to the 'townies' at high prices don't complain, and it probably goes a long way to subsidising their breeding of the less fashionable breeds too!


 
Erm, Yes. Those breeding the crossbred crap and getting away with conning the idiots out of large amounts of money by putting signs on saying they are a certain pure breed which is the fashion chicken of the season. Yes, Great Idea that.


----------



## diamondlil

Pimperella said:


> Erm, Yes. Those breeding the crossbred crap and getting away with conning the idiots out of large amounts of money by putting signs on saying they are a certain pure breed which is the fashion chicken of the season. Yes, Great Idea that.


Ah, well that'll be why people ask your advice then. Even if they have done their homework first, advce from someone who is experienced is a step in the right direction.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Yup, *Townies price drive on the latest craze.*


Chocolate orps :whistling2:
I really like buff Sussex hens, I prefer them to light Sussex. £5 for a pair of banties. Lucky sod.


----------



## fenwoman

Came back from my friend's place this afternoon with a smashing little Welsummer banty boy (Wesley-small mark3)Took big Urs and Chalky out for the drive and we stopped at Macdonalds on the way cos I was starving. We had our usual. Big mac meal for me and a cheese burger each for the boys:no1:
While I was there Bob showed me all his latest poultry housing designs. He manufactures the best quality housing I've ever seen. All made and designed by him. So many poultry houses nowadays are designed by people who have never kept chickens. Bob knows what chickens need, how much room etc. He's alsoi made some great poultry houses and runs for disabled people in wheelchairs which I'd suggested to him a few years ago. His houses may not be cheap but I honestly believe that when someone buys one, they can leave it to their kids in their will. It'll last 50+ years easily, unlike these flimsy Chinese import ones which are so flimsy, they fall to bits after only 2 years.
Bob also gave me 10 big cockerels to take home for meat. They're in my grower house at the moment and I'll work my way through them, a couple at a time over the coming weeks.
I also got to see all his pekins. Oh the colours. Millefleur, lemon cuckoo,blue birchen, mottled blue and loads more besides.
I didn't stay long as I wanted to get home and settle the cockerels in but I really enjoyed myself. If I win the lottery, I'll be ordering loads of fabbo poultry houses from him.


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Chocolate orps :whistling2:
> I really like buff Sussex hens, I prefer them to light Sussex. £5 for a pair of banties. Lucky sod.


 Speckled Sussex :flrt::flrt::flrt:


----------



## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Chocolate orps :whistling2:
> I really like buff Sussex hens, I prefer them to light Sussex. £5 for a pair of banties. Lucky sod.


 
Yup, which is now growing to involve the new Chocolate Silkie projects with choc orp x silkie cocks going for £50 plus!


My Bantie Buff Sussex, well I was truely chuffed with them as they really are spot on and for £5! True bargain.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Speckled Sussex :flrt::flrt::flrt:


Ohhhh never seen them. *Googles it and likes*




Pimperella said:


> Yup, which is now growing to involve the new Chocolate Silkie projects with choc orp x silkie cocks going for £50 plus!
> 
> 
> My Bantie Buff Sussex, well I was truely chuffed with them as they really are spot on and for £5! True bargain.


Have they got the black hackles? I love that on them, the contrast's brilliant.
Bleh there's loads of chocolate things popping up I've noticed, although I'm quite taken with chocolate runners.


----------



## bosshogg

well house one has now changed to house two :blush: this one has 13 kennles and 5 stables and just a 1 and 1/4 acres! keep everything crossed for my smallholding dream to come true


----------



## Tommy123

Evening my fellow people 

Not sure if any of you anyone who's got any golden sebrights? I'm looking for some REAL good quality, looking to pay some good money, if there good birds.
Cheers,
Tom8)


----------



## fenwoman

Tommy123 said:


> Evening my fellow people
> 
> Not sure if any of you anyone who's got any golden sebrights? I'm looking for some REAL good quality, looking to pay some good money, if there good birds.
> Cheers,
> Tom8)


 Do you mean gold laced Sebrights? I didn't think they come in plain gold.Have you thought of contacting the secretary of the Sebright club? I doubt you'll find much available at this time of year. Any breeder who's fed and kept the birds over the winter will now be looking to breed and not sell.You might try the upcoming rare breeds graded sales though because some people like me, do keep surplus stock over winter and sell at the spring sales because we know that the birds will fetch ridiculously high amounts of money.:lol2:
This time of year, everyone is starting to think about buying chickens.


----------



## Tommy123

fenwoman said:


> Do you mean gold laced Sebrights? I didn't think they come in plain gold.Have you thought of contacting the secretary of the Sebright club? I doubt you'll find much available at this time of year. Any breeder who's fed and kept the birds over the winter will now be looking to breed and not sell.You might try the upcoming rare breeds graded sales though because some people like me, do keep surplus stock over winter and sell at the spring sales because we know that the birds will fetch ridiculously high amounts of money.:lol2:
> This time of year, everyone is starting to think about buying chickens.


Yeah, sorry. Got in a bit of a habit of just calling them Golden Sebrights:blush:
No, I may do. My parents are going to keep sort of "specialising" in pekins. But I want to concentrate on something different. I was thinking sebrights, hence why I asked. Any other breeds? I might possibly consider some blue cochin.
I'm also going to be getting some call ducks this year sometime when we get the pond done.

Cheers,
Tom8)


----------



## Pimperella

I'm looking for birds at the mo, some I have been looking for for over a year! lol
Black Tailed White Japanese Bantam Cockeral that is the right size and shape lol 
min 1 to 4 Dark Brahma Hens in Large Fowl.
Cream Crested Legbar Cockeral x 2

But I have just been offered a trio of really special birds but they are in Dorset!!! Very very tempted to Go down on the Train as these are for my son lol Will check out prices on the train as been offered dinner aswell lol
Either that or check courier prices. But would love to go down and collect mainly cause this is a top breeder with loads of wins on these birds and ooooooo they are special.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> I'm looking for birds at the mo, some I have been looking for for over a year! lol
> Black Tailed White Japanese Bantam Cockeral that is the right size and shape lol
> min 1 to 4 Dark Brahma Hens in Large Fowl.
> Cream Crested Legbar Cockeral x 2
> *
> But I have just been offered a trio of really special birds but they are in Dorset!!! Very very tempted to Go down on the Train as these are for my son lol Will check out prices on the train as been offered dinner aswell lol
> Either that or check courier prices. But would love to go down and collect mainly cause this is a top breeder with loads of wins on these birds and ooooooo they are special.*



I got no doubt that you should go for these, I would if I were you, flippin bargain.

Nothing exiting, but I just sewn all my herbs for this year, exiting to me though lol. To add to our herb garden I've planted, Lemon Thyme, we have loads of normal Thyme, Pineapple mint, again loads of normal mint, more chives, more dill, basil and black basil, flat leaf and curly parsley. Got a few random ones too, some tarragon and sage ect.


----------



## fenwoman

I went out today and bought some fence stakes and loads of timber. I'm redoing the picket fence around Horatio's garden cos the old one was rotten and the dogs kept getting in and shitting in there. So, new fence, new gate, repositioning the path and then giving it all a right good tidy up. I might also get some more of the frame done on the big greenhouse I'm building, but that all depends on whether I'm in pain or not. I so need it done so I can start sowing tomatoes etc next month. 
I als ohave decided to pull down the big aviary near the kitchen door. I'm fed up patching it up and repairing it. So, all the conures, budgies and finches will be moved into a flight in the aviary block, then I'll pull down and burn it and think about replacing it with another or using the space for something else.
Also had a walk around the land last week and decided I have room for at least another 6 more fruit trees. I noticed some Czar plum trees in the auction and they are my favourites so might get 5 of those. When I've redone fences and pulled down the aviary, will see if I can put more fruit trees in.
Also have to fence my veg plot to stop chickens getting in.
And, I've just bid on some hatching eggs off ebay. LF barred Plymouth rock (show strain) as I need fresh blood. And LF buff Plymouth rock.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Just won the Katie Thear book for £3.30 inc postage, gonna get the quail one next. And planted my nasturtiums too, good night lol
Sod the Quail book, they're all over £8! For such a small book!


----------



## Pimperella

4 Days til First hatch!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 days!!!!!!!!!!

6 Salmon Faverolles, 6 japanese Bantams, 5 Red Dorkings and 2 Cuckoo Marans! 
I'm so excited! It makes my heart flutter when candling for the first time and seeing the first viens. And then later candling, show the developing chicks hearts beating, then seeing them grow on and moving around.


----------



## Pimperella

Well I have booked my Trio of New Birds. Just awaiting if I need a courier or if his dad is visiting his sister in Scotland at end of the month.

My 6 Croad Langshan Eggs are also all Fertile!!! Hugey Chuffed as they are from good show stock and 3 of the eggs had the plumy blush when laid. So those if hatch, will be rung so I know which egg colour they came out of, and any cocks of the 3 plumy eggs will be kept for breeding towards that pinky plum egg colour in my future hens. Just spoken to another breeder who I have had some Buff Orp eggs from, Might be going over to her farm as she has some polands and also Breeds Croad Langshans and her hubby rears Pheasants. Just someone who I got ebay eggs from and ended up having great email convos with after she broke eggs while packing, but emailed me saying sorry and sent me eggs out as soon as laid fresh. She's offered me some lovely Polands and well, I do love the little beggers lol

So may be popping down on the train to go visit, pick up polands and chat about Croad Langshans and breeding lol

You do meet some really nice people buying eggs, you get the odd **** but to be honest I have met more nice than bad in the last couple of years.
Been starting work on the breeding pens outside, all getting retreated with Wood Preserver. and any fixing and such that needs doing now they are getting set back up after standing empty all winter.


----------



## Tommy123

Getting all excited now! Got some more pekin eggs hatching tomorrow, no pips yet though. 
I'm hoping to get my call ducks soon aswell, I want to start showing them hopefully


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Thought this needs a bump, will be getting my incubator ordered in the next few days. Already planning on legbars and some muscovies and if I get this allotment, maybe get some Ixworths (also might get a cornish game cock to cross with the ixworths and see what kind of meat bird they make, if not I'm thinking of getting som hybrid chicks to rear for the table) and another separate laying flock, maybe some RIRs, Sussex and some fancier hybrids, fentons, and something leghorn based for white eggs, can't keep up with demand with the 9 hens I have, at 7-8 eggs a day at the moment.
Also when I get my quail, will be incubating a lot of the eggs with the females going back into the laying flock and the males stocking up my freezer.


----------



## LiamRatSnake

Duplicate.


----------



## Pimperella

I have 3 Salmon Faverolle Chicks hatched so far!!!!!!!!!! And what noisey little Chicks they are lol
More to go yet.


----------



## bosshogg

Pimperella said:


> I have 3 Salmon Faverolle Chicks hatched so far!!!!!!!!!! And what noisey little Chicks they are lol
> More to go yet.



Yayyy love SF's :flrt:


----------



## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Thought this needs a bump, will be getting my incubator ordered in the next few days. Already planning on legbars and some muscovies and if I get this allotment, maybe get some Ixworths (also might get a cornish game cock to cross with the ixworths and see what kind of meat bird they make, if not I'm thinking of getting som hybrid chicks to rear for the table) and another separate laying flock, maybe some RIRs, Sussex and some fancier hybrids, fentons, and something leghorn based for white eggs, can't keep up with demand with the 9 hens I have, at 7-8 eggs a day at the moment.
> Also when I get my quail, will be incubating a lot of the eggs with the females going back into the laying flock and the males stocking up my freezer.


 One of the best white egg layers is the Hamburgh. I keep silver spangled. The breed is also known as 'the perpetual egg layer' and for good readon. They lay like their bums are on fire.I've never known a breed like them for the sheer number of eggs. Plus they are nice to look at.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> One of the best white egg layers is the Hamburgh. I keep silver spangled. The breed is also known as 'the perpetual egg layer' and for good readon. They lay like their bums are on fire.I've never known a breed like them for the sheer number of eggs. Plus they are nice to look at.


 
And so much nicer to keep than noisey freak out at anything and everything, leghorns.


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> And so much nicer to keep than noisey freak out at anything and everything, leghorns.


I used the keep bantam leghorns and I never found them to be particularly 'spook-y'. Perhaps it depends on the strain, or perhaps ever how they are reared? My white ones were from John Martin (Mr Leghorn). Not sure if he's even alive any more. I liked them as a breed but not even they could out lay a Hamburgh. I ended up having to get rid of them because of comb damage from the cold fen winds in winter.


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> I used the keep bantam leghorns and I never found them to be particularly 'spook-y'. Perhaps it depends on the strain, or perhaps ever how they are reared? My white ones were from John Martin (Mr Leghorn). Not sure if he's even alive any more. I liked them as a breed but not even they could out lay a Hamburgh. I ended up having to get rid of them because of comb damage from the cold fen winds in winter.


 
I have Bantam Leghorns. Mine are really in yer face. But the noise!!! When they want something, or dog walks past, or they hear something, they kick off big style!
My lf Brown Leghorn, Again, has EVERYTHING to say, but her mental flightyness truely can be put down to her being blind in one eye. 
However, for a backgarden situation, I would never recomend Leghorns, they can and do make more noise than the cockerals, vocal is not the half of it with them lol


----------



## fenwoman

Pimperella said:


> I have Bantam Leghorns. Mine are really in yer face. But the noise!!! When they want something, or dog walks past, or they hear something, they kick off big style!
> My lf Brown Leghorn, Again, has EVERYTHING to say, but her mental flightyness truely can be put down to her being blind in one eye.
> However, for a backgarden situation, I would never recomend Leghorns, they can and do make more noise than the cockerals, vocal is not the half of it with them lol


 Giovanni my white cockerel was also blind in one eye but only because his huge show type comb hung down over one of them.:lol2:


----------



## Pimperella

fenwoman said:


> Giovanni my white cockerel was also blind in one eye but only because his huge show type comb hung down over one of them.:lol2:
> image


 

oooooo
This is my Show type Black Bantam Cock









I got him from a very known breeder and Judge. Nextdoor neighbour of my best mate knows him, said 'I can get you a Black Bantam Cockeral' 
Turned up with him, he had the worst ever case of Scaly leg, It has taken well over a year to get his legs right, what with first killing the mites, then repeated treatment and oiling his legs to get all the dead skin off. He is looking fab now tho.


----------



## vonnie

I spent most of this evening sat highlighting lots in tomorrow's auction catalogue.

I have now gone back and crossed out the leghorns :lol2:


----------



## Pimperella

vonnie said:


> I spent most of this evening sat highlighting lots in tomorrow's auction catalogue.
> 
> I have now gone back and crossed out the leghorns :lol2:


 lol Certainly dosen't stop me owning them lol I love my little gobshites lol

Just a lot of people can get annoyed with it pretty short space of time. But if you like them, and can cope with their over talkative nature, they are fab!.
I have 1 cock and 2 Black hens and a lavender hen in bantam and a large fowl brown hen who is blind in one eye (Blindy)


----------



## vonnie

Not that I'm buying any more birds of course :whistling2:

If the OH think's I won't buy anything then he's either daft, deluded or in denial.

And the big box I've got ready to take might be a bit of a giveaway too.

But what to choose??? I've decided I've only space for another 2 lf or 3 banties in the big coop. And might get a breeding pair of bantams for the spare little ark. But I've highlighted so many breeds!

For the ark, even though I love pekins I might go for something different. Anyone keep sablepoots, sebrights or dutch?

Or appenzeller, andalusian or redcaps? To go in with the mixed flock
I bet after all that I come back with more orps lol


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## bosshogg

Get Dutch :flrt: there great little birds, I had a cock Romeo and he was the tamest cock ever used to sit on my shoulder while i was feeding the chickens, and loved his neck been scratched and would fall asleep I miss my little guy


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## LiamRatSnake

I'd get Silver laced Sebrights :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble: Gorgeous birds and they strut around so self-importantly for tiny little things.


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## adamntitch

i have an egg candler here if anyones intrested al find a link to the make for you soon and you can make me an offer


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## fenwoman

bosshogg said:


> Get Dutch :flrt: there great little birds, I had a cock Romeo and he was the tamest cock ever used to sit on my shoulder while i was feeding the chickens, and loved his neck been scratched and would fall asleep I miss my little guy


 Oh yes, Dutchies are fab pet birds and come in a range of colours too and are quite long lived. I still have the original blue partridge trio I started with 10 years ago.
Dutch


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## vonnie

Well I'm back!

A bit disappointing in that the set-up made it really difficult to bid on large fowl and bantams as the auctions were in separate rings, with the birds elsewhere. So I plumped for bantams. In the past auction and birds were in the same room so you had chance to get a better look.

Some insane prices too! But I was very sensible in sticking to my limits, even though it meant I was outbid on a lot of birds. I really wanted a trio of sablepoots, but I'd said £40 max and they both went for £45.

I was also outbid on an OEG bantam trio, and two or three lots of pekins. The pekins it was just two or three people bidding amongst themsleves for almost everything, up to £90 for one lemon trio. Shame as the OH had picked out a red black pair as his favourites (he always claims he's not interested until we get there and then he wants to pick! :lol2

So when it got to the Dutch (the very last thing on my list) my preferred trio went for £120 :gasp::gasp::gasp: Had almost given up at that point, but the very next pair, same colour gold partridge, I got for £22. Still carded as exhibition quality, and I'm not interested in showing anyway so if someone's willing to pay six times the price for "best of breed", well they're welcome to them.

They're really sweet birds. Very pleased with them. I'd have liked to come away with more, but best to be sensible until we've moved.

Stuck around for a few waterfowl lots as that's next on the list as soon as I've space. At least their prices are still pretty low. £20 for a lavender muscovy pair and only £8 for a pair of Aylesburys.

Think I'll give the April sale a miss if I want anything else, and see if prices drop at the Autumn one.

Pics of the cute couple in the morning :flrt:


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## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> Well I'm back!
> 
> A bit disappointing in that the set-up made it really difficult to bid on large fowl and bantams as the auctions were in separate rings, with the birds elsewhere. So I plumped for bantams. In the past auction and birds were in the same room so you had chance to get a better look.
> 
> Some insane prices too! But I was very sensible in sticking to my limits, even though it meant I was outbid on a lot of birds. I really wanted a trio of sablepoots, but I'd said £40 max and they both went for £45.
> 
> I was also outbid on an OEG bantam trio, and two or three lots of pekins. The pekins it was just two or three people bidding amongst themsleves for almost everything, up to £90 for one lemon trio. Shame as the OH had picked out a red black pair as his favourites (he always claims he's not interested until we get there and then he wants to pick! :lol2
> 
> So when it got to the Dutch (the very last thing on my list) my preferred trio went for £120 :gasp::gasp::gasp: Had almost given up at that point, but the very next pair, same colour gold partridge, I got for £22. Still carded as exhibition quality, and I'm not interested in showing anyway so if someone's willing to pay six times the price for "best of breed", well they're welcome to them.
> 
> They're really sweet birds. Very pleased with them. I'd have liked to come away with more, but best to be sensible until we've moved.
> 
> Stuck around for a few waterfowl lots as that's next on the list as soon as I've space. At least their prices are still pretty low. £20 for a lavender muscovy pair and only £8 for a pair of Aylesburys.
> 
> Think I'll give the April sale a miss if I want anything else, and see if prices drop at the Autumn one.
> 
> Pics of the cute couple in the morning :flrt:



Now you discovered why people who are 'in' chickens buy in the autumn sales and sell in the spring sales :lol2:


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## HABU




----------



## vonnie

LOL Fenny. I know. I see it every year there, but I missed the Autumn sale and I'm too damn impatient!

Dont think there were any lots going as cheaply as I've got some of my other birds there in previous years. I can remember when I first started going all the true bantams going for nothing. Now I think they've become garden pets. I was outbid by children a couple of times! :lol2:


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## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> LOL Fenny. I know. I see it every year there, but I missed the Autumn sale and I'm too damn impatient!
> 
> Dont think there were any lots going as cheaply as I've got some of my other birds there in previous years. I can remember when I first started going all the true bantams going for nothing. Now I think they've become garden pets. I was outbid by children a couple of times! :lol2:


 Did you look on the link I posted in a previous post? That's the Dutch bantam website and on there you'll find a list of club members who might be closer to you. Their prices will be much better and you'll get breeders with a better range of colours too. There's also a for sale page.


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## Pimperella

Lots of cheaping at the moment!

I had 4 Salmon Faverolles, 3 Red dorkings and 4 Japanese Bantams hatched.
Got 1 more Japanese bantam part way through hatching. 
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO My daughter is gona be over the moon. Fingers crossed this last one has no problems. The othe 4 didn't, strong little bantam chicks. All 5 are Black. She is going to be sooo happy!!!!!
Extra chuffed with my 3 Red Dorkings as at the mo they all look to be hens!!!

More due to hatch on Wednesday! lol

But lending my Suro to School on Wednesday.
So far with 6 Light Sussex and 6 Buff Orpingtons, just got to buy 12 more eggs over the weekend so I get them for Tuesday.

I'll be doing a full talk with chicks, couple of bantams. Explaining about caring for poultry. Feeding, water, grit. Dust bathing and why, lots of different things really aswell as talking about different breeds and the egg colours they lay.

Then we will be setting up the incubator with 24 eggs. 
I'll be going back in to do the candling and explain all about developing embryos and how delicate they are.
They will be going in againg when ready to stop turning. Explain about the forth coming hatch and to set the brooder up ready for hatching chicks.
Aswell as being great fun for the children, It will also be very educational. 
The class is 9 to 10. Some have kinda cottoned on to whats happening as it's been kept quiet and when one did ask if they would be hatching eggs, I explained that I was hatching eggs and was going to bring them in for them to see. lol so fingers crossed we put them off the scent lol and it will still be a huge suprise. They are a really nice class and the teacher is much loved by all the kids. 
So fingers crossed the school gets a good hatch and gains a lot from the experience. As I will no doubt be doing it again next year and so on lol
Next year my daughter will be in that class. She reads loads of poultry books so she is already prepared to answer questions the class above my have lol


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## Pimperella

Pimperella said:


> Lots of cheaping at the moment!
> 
> I had 4 Salmon Faverolles, 3 Red dorkings and 4 Japanese Bantams hatched.
> Got 1 more Japanese bantam part way through hatching.
> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO My daughter is gona be over the moon. Fingers crossed this last one has no problems. The othe 4 didn't, strong little bantam chicks. *All 5 are Black.* She is going to be sooo happy!!!!!
> Extra chuffed with my 3 Red Dorkings as at the mo they all look to be hens!!!


No they are not! Now they have all dried off and it's daylight! I have a self Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A little Blue Japanese Bantam!


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## Pimperella

Chicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


4 Silver Dorkings
4 Cream Crested Legbars
1 Buff Orpington Bantam
1 Croad Langshan

still waiting on 2 Croad Langshans and a CC legbar to hatch.


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## Pimperella

Well. I contacted my Meat Bird supplier. Booked my Meat Chicks and Ducklings for the end of the month.

40 Meat Chicks, 12 Cherry Valley Ducklings and 48 Meat Bird eggs.
Coming on the 30th. So with good rearing, the chicks should be table ready by the Summer Holidays. The other Chicks from the eggs are ones that are going to be reared on further to be bigger for Xmas.
My sister Della has automatically booked hers lol Straight away as soon as I said I had put my order in, she was 'OOOO Could I booked a few off you for the summer lot and maybe 5 of the xmas lot?' yup course. Tho she is also hoping on an Xmas Goose.
My mum has booked a few, my brother Duncan, other sister Debra. Few mates. All put bookings in as soon as I had posted it on facebook lol
The Cherry Valley ducklings are suposed to be table ready at 10 weeks so I am going to keep all females and 2 drakes and eat the rest of the drakes. 

Also I got 5 new hens on Friday. 

2 Lovely Buff Orp Ladies









2 Jubilee Orps. Well were sold as Speckled Sussex, but they are far too Orp like and from a few top people, have also said Jubilee Orps (and you jammy bugger for how much I paid for them lol)


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## bosshogg

Pimperella said:


> Also I got 5 new hens on Friday.
> 
> 2 Lovely Buff Orp Ladies
> image
> 
> 2 Jubilee Orps. Well were sold as Speckled Sussex, but they are far too Orp like and from a few top people, have also said Jubilee Orps (and you jammy bugger for how much I paid for them lol)
> image
> image
> image



there gorgeous I do love orps:flrt:


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## vonnie

They're lovely. And they certainly do look like orps not sussex. 

Have a soft spot for the buffs. My first chickens of my own. I think I fancied a change after all those faverolles when I was growing up :lol2:
Still going strong, and my stubbornest broodies!


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## Jacs

self sufficiancy is about to start here ^_^ mums birthday tomoro and me and my sister bought her a portable greenhouse which we spent the whole day putting up in the garden, it looks great. she has lots of stuff to grow in it now, strawberries, tomatoes, cuecumbers, peppers etc etc and the dogs cant get in so there is no way they can dig up or eat the veggies and fruit! woo rather excited, hopefully come summer we will have some home grown goodies!


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## Brat

Shell195 said:


> At our sanctuary we have a lot of chickens ,ducks and geese. Is there a magic answer to keeping the water unfrozen as at the minute we are doing 2 hourly water replacement.
> Our chickens have started to lay again as well


Not sure if it's been mentioned as I only read the first 50 or so posts in the thread but.. An empty metal sweet tin with a bulb wired inside, put lid back on, seal to make sure it's waterproof. Pop it under the drinker and turn it on. Acts as a warmer so the water can't freeze - Probably useless now as it's March lol.. but quite a lot of people use this method.


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## Brat

Today has been spent preparing my veg patch, finally now that it's warming up. Out garden is a bit of a jungle so I've been clearing loads of weeds and old plants.

Mother-In-law sent us some broad bean seeds to plant.. However my OH and I hate broad beans! Going to give them a go though, even if I end up giving them all away. May try making a Broad Bean chutney though, you never know.. it _may_ be nice.

Not sure what else I want to grow yet apart from Carrots, potatoes, runner beans, strawberries, tomatoes.

We also grow herbs - Sage, rosemary and basil.


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## LiamRatSnake

We've been really busy today getting the garden ready. Mine was frozen this morning and it's been really quite warm all day. Sewn a few more herbs and planted the larger plants. Got all our fruit trees out of pots and into nicely mulched/composted soil. Re-potted the strawberries and planted some into the ground too. Laid a couple of extra flags in the chicken run. Painted the rabbit hutch and touched up the coop, only did it last week. Then the usual stuff, cleaned the flags, raked up the leaves ect
Also cut the Eucalyptus tree down thinking of using it in the chicken run if it isn't poisonous.
Two great big wood pigeons have been coming in the garden every day to feed, I might turn them into a free lunch next week.... Hmmm....


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## vonnie

First really Spring-like day here. I should have spent it in the garden, but instead I had a couple of long walks with the dogs and watched my son playing footie. And I didn't even have to wear hat, scarf, gloves, fleece ... BLISS!

So now I'm behind already :lol2:


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## Pimperella

I've got to build some veg beds and get the netting frame over the whole thing to keep the chucks out lol. Got fecking loads of bamboo canes so will be making pea growing frames with the kids. Got loads of seeds to get planting, loads of compost, about 20 binbags of it. Building the raised veg beds tho.


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## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> I've got to build some veg beds and get the netting frame over the whole thing to keep the chucks out lol. Got fecking loads of bamboo canes so will be making pea growing frames with the kids. Got loads of seeds to get planting, loads of compost, about 20 binbags of it. Building the raised veg beds tho.


Bloody chooks, turned our flower bed over today and added some lovely compost and well rotted pig manure, and planted some of our pretty plants up. Anyway the chickens managed to get on it and kicked half the soil all over the patio and dug up half the plants. Bless, they had a nice time anyway.


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## fenwoman

Brat said:


> Not sure if it's been mentioned as I only read the first 50 or so posts in the thread but.. An empty metal sweet tin with a bulb wired inside, put lid back on, seal to make sure it's waterproof. Pop it under the drinker and turn it on. Acts as a warmer so the water can't freeze - Probably useless now as it's March lol.. but quite a lot of people use this method.


I don't know anyone who uses this method and I know an awful lot of poultry people as I show chickens. I wouldn't recommend it as live electricity down in damp wet conditions is a recipe for tragedy.I'm not sure how it would even work with the plastic drinkers.I think that in a similar vein, a biscuit or sweetie tin with some holes punched in and perhaps a tea light in it, might keep the water defrosted but again, I wouldn't recommend it anywhere near dry shavings and straw in a chicken house.
I always recommend that people fill a bucket with hot water, then plunge the drinker into it to defrost it and allow the birds to drink, then feed layers meal made into a mash with warm water. This ensures they keep their liquid intake up


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> I don't know anyone who uses this method and I know an awful lot of poultry people as I show chickens. I wouldn't recommend it as live electricity down in damp wet conditions is a recipe for tragedy.I'm not sure how it would even work with the plastic drinkers.I think that in a similar vein, a biscuit or sweetie tin with some holes punched in and perhaps a tea light in it, might keep the water defrosted but again, I wouldn't recommend it anywhere near dry shavings and straw in a chicken house.
> I always recommend that people fill a bucket with hot water, then plunge the drinker into it to defrost it and allow the birds to drink, then feed layers meal made into a mash with warm water. This ensures they keep their liquid intake up


I just ended up filling up the lip every few hours. It was easier than defrosting the whole drinker and trying to flipping open it which is hard enough without it being frozen. I also put a bowl of water inside the coop, which is warmer than outside and keeping the drinker in at night so they had water and an unfrozen drinker in the morning. And like you said, feed them some wet food. I like to feed it warm as it makes me feel better that they're getting warm food on a cold day, whether it's any better for them I have no idea lol


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## Brat

A hell of alot of Americans use the method.. as you can buy water heaters, but why not make your own? Everyone knows the dangers of electricity so I don't think anyone's stupid enough to mess it up. Whack it on a couple of bricks, place your drinker on top and you're sorted. Obviously you'd put it in your more sheltered area too. If you were worried about the chickens pecking any exposed wire, you could easily thread it through some piping. I think it's a good solution to frozen water over winter.

Found a guide: http://www.rosecombs.ca/heatedwaterer.html



















Another example -





















fenwoman said:


> I don't know anyone who uses this method and I know an awful lot of poultry people as I show chickens. I wouldn't recommend it as live electricity down in damp wet conditions is a recipe for tragedy.I'm not sure how it would even work with the plastic drinkers.I think that in a similar vein, a biscuit or sweetie tin with some holes punched in and perhaps a tea light in it, might keep the water defrosted but again, I wouldn't recommend it anywhere near dry shavings and straw in a chicken house.
> I always recommend that people fill a bucket with hot water, then plunge the drinker into it to defrost it and allow the birds to drink, then feed layers meal made into a mash with warm water. This ensures they keep their liquid intake up


----------



## fenwoman

Brat said:


> A hell of alot of Americans use the method.. as you can buy water heaters, but why not make your own? Everyone knows the dangers of electricity so I don't think anyone's stupid enough to mess it up. Whack it on a couple of bricks, place your drinker on top and you're sorted. Obviously you'd put it in your more sheltered area too. If you were worried about the chickens pecking any exposed wire, you could easily thread it through some piping. I think it's a good solution to frozen water over winter.
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> Another example -
> 
> image
> 
> image


 Americans eh? For a start they only have 110v electricity. Secondly, that tin will get very hot. Hot enough to melt plastic and possibly to ignite dry shavings. Added to that the fact that you have an unearthed electricity supply going to a metal tin and I still won't advocate anyone copies the idea as that really would be stupid. It's altogether unnecessary and possibly dangerous.


----------



## Brat

fenwoman said:


> Americans eh? For a start they only have 110v electricity. Secondly, that tin will get very hot. Hot enough to melt plastic and possibly to ignite dry shavings. Added to that the fact that you have an unearthed electricity supply going to a metal tin and I still won't advocate anyone copies the idea as that really would be stupid. It's altogether unnecessary and possibly dangerous.


Unless it can throw fire to the shavings, that's unlikely :? :?



Brat said:


> Whack it on a couple of bricks


It surely would depend on the wattage of bulb you are using too.

It wouldn't be unnecessary to people like myself who have to work all day so wouldn't be on hand to thaw out the chickens water and give them fresh.


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## LiamRatSnake

Brat said:


> Unless it can throw fire to the shavings, that's unlikely :? :?
> 
> 
> 
> It surely would depend on the wattage of bulb you are using too.
> 
> It wouldn't be unnecessary to people like myself who have to work all day so wouldn't be on hand to thaw out the chickens water and give them fresh.


I'd rather put in an extra half hour out of my day than mess around with electric, could work with a fishtank heater I suppose.


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## Pimperella

I wouldn't be trusting it. Chickens knock over water Drinkers as it is.

Hot tin, Dry shavings. Yes can lead to fires. It can smoulder away and yes, catch fire. I know I wouldn't be stupid enough to risk my birds using this method.


We have triple the amount of Drinkers. So that empty ones can just be filled with warm water and replace.
I also use Glycerine in the water like I do with rabbit water bottles as it stops it from freezing over.


----------



## Pimperella

Just moved my next lot of eggs, due to hatch on wednesday, over into the hatcher.
1 Buff Orp egg
8 Silver Dorkings.

ooooo Fingers crossed.

I'm going to candle the school eggs when I pick Alex up from school and see how they are doing. Stick ticks on the fertile ones. give it another few days tho before I take any unfertiles out just in case they are slow starters. Will have been in a week on Wednesday.

Fingers Crossed for good fertility in the school eggs tho. I do have some due same time to swap over if need be lol


----------



## Brat

Pimperella said:


> I wouldn't be trusting it. Chickens knock over water Drinkers as it is.
> 
> Hot tin, Dry shavings. Yes can lead to fires. It can smoulder away and yes, catch fire. I know I wouldn't be stupid enough to risk my birds using this method.
> 
> 
> We have triple the amount of Drinkers. So that empty ones can just be filled with warm water and replace.
> I also use Glycerine in the water like I do with rabbit water bottles as it stops it from freezing over.


Quite clearly didn't read what I said, so I give up.


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## Tommy123

Can't wait till the 28th March, my call ducks are hatching, looks like we have 3/5 fertile! These are my first ducks, except my parents had 3 aylesbury, but we had to sell them due to the amount of mess. I hope to show the calls some day.
Oh, and yes, I'm well aware of the noise


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## Pimperella

oooooooooooo Chicks all cheaping away.

Puppies barking in their sleep.

I paired up silkies today. Only gonna be for garden pets/Broodies. Black Silkie Cock I git given who is really sweet looking with my Partridge silkie.

Just building a large run to go underneth a huge 5ft hutch which I'm converting into a breeding coop for my Amber Link Hybrids. Hatching from those will be slow growing eating males and replacement egg layers as my Amber links are now 2 yrs and 4 months old so slower on the egg production than first year so breeding some egg layers for later in teh year/Next years layers.
Dead excited about my meat chicks due at the end of the month tho.
Had my orders coming in from my sisters. Next to youngest sister Della, instantly booked hers as soon as I told her about them. And booked her ones for xmas aswell, getting in early so she dosen't miss out.


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## Brat

Ordered my Composting bin off the council yesterday, they have discounted them so ordered the largest one. 

Having another day of gardening tomorrow to sort out the rest of the garden, cut back bits that we can't get to and clear the paths around the trees and bushes. Lots of weeding to be done. I'm going to grow sunflowers up the side of the house just to give a bit of colour and something to go up the wall so that area needs weeding and clearing.

I'm having tomatoes in my hanging backet but somehow forgot to pick up the seeds when we went to the shop the other day.. Got all the others though.
I also need a propagator too, would love a greenhouse, but don't wanna take much space up in the garden as I like what we have there.


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## Jacs

because we rent we arent really aloud to do much with the garden, but the landlord hardcored a square at the end of the garden where he was going to pave but never go round to it, where it has been left it kinda grassed over a bit so we put the greenhouse there which means the dogs still have the majority of the garden to run around... altho because its a portable greenhouse getting the guyropes into hardcore was difficult... but we managed it ^_^ it looks amazing best £80 we spent i think!!


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## fenwoman

Brat said:


> Ordered my Composting bin off the council yesterday, they have discounted them so ordered the largest one.


you ordered? In as 'bought'?? Oh woe is me indeed. You could build one dead easy from stuff you either have in your RUP (Really Useful Pile) or out of some scrounged pallets.Self sufficiency is about making and doing yourself as much as growing your own food after all.:2thumb:



> Having another day of gardening tomorrow to sort out the rest of the garden, cut back bits that we can't get to and clear the paths around the trees and bushes. Lots of weeding to be done. I'm going to grow sunflowers up the side of the house just to give a bit of colour and something to go up the wall so that area needs weeding and clearing.


A quick tip for cheapery. buy a half kilo of sunflower seeds from the pet shop instead of a packet of sunflower seeds. You'll get around 1000 seeds as opposed to around 20 seeds for the same price. You could also think about growing hollyhocks or delphiniums to give height. And if you have things you can use as planters, (an old leaking welly nailed to the wall or any other suitable container) fill with compost and put nasturtiums into the top to cascade over and down. This year, on my sheds, I'm planning to hammer a big nail in, then hang a small car tyre, fill the bottom half with compost and plant flowers. All it'll cost me is the nail as I get car tyres for free from the local independant tyre place who is glad to let me have them as it saves him the disposal fee. Plus they can be used for loads of other things besides, like making a compost maker by stacking them, stacking 5 and putting a black binbag in to create a temporary water butt, stacking and filling with compost to make planters and growing potatoes in a stack, stacking 2 piles of 3 and putting a plank across or an offcut of kitchen worktop to creat a bench to sit on or to display pots or whatever.



> I'm having tomatoes in my hanging backet but somehow forgot to pick up the seeds when we went to the shop the other day.. Got all the others though.
> I also need a propagator too, would love a greenhouse, but don't wanna take much space up in the garden as I like what we have there.


To be honest, if you have a south facing, sunny and sheltered spot, you can grow most things without a greenhouse. I even grow grapes, peaches and apricots here. If you have a nice south or west facing windowsill, you won't need a propogator as it'll get warm enough on sunny days to start any seeds off.Both myself and my son end up with loads of pots on our sills at this time of year. If you need morwe space than you have sill, simple put some glass shelves across the windows. They allow light into the room whilst giving you the space you need.


----------



## fenwoman

was just thinking. 
Why not post here about how you got interested in self sufficiency. When was it and why? What are you doing presently and where do you hope to be in 10 years time?
I started as a young teenager I suppose. My father then grew his own veggies and kept a couple of chickens in our army quarters. I loved those chickens (Emma and Gerty). Later, I kept a couple of chickens myself, again in married quarters but was told to get rid of them. When I left my husband and moved back to the UK and civvie street, I was determined to have chickens again one day and in the meantime, I bought a book called 'complete guide to self sufficiency' by John Seymour (most of you will know of him). It was my bible. I later remarried and although my hubby was in the airforce,. we lived in our own bungalow in Suffolk where I kept a couple of chickens, 4 dogs, cats, ducks and a pet goose.It was obvious that we needed some land so we moved to Norfolk where property was cheaper and bought an old station master's cottage with half an acre. That was basically where I really got going. Had a pony, had goats, learned to milk, had chickens, learned to kill them and basically worked my way through my bible, trying out most of the things in it.That was in 1981 and now I have my own place in Cambridgeshire with nearly an acre of land. I rear 2 pigs a year, keep goats for meat and milk, keep chickens for eggs and meat and I show them too. Keep ducks and rabbits for meat.I live very simply. Have no tumble dryer or microwave,no cooker other than my old rayburn stove no central heating, no plasma TV no stereo. I try to spend as little money as possible. I'm not a consumer. I rarely buy anything new. I have nothing I don't need and use. I tend to make things rather than buy them. My supermarket shop is around £50 a month maximum. In 10 years time I'll be drawing my pension but hope still to be living my life as I do.By then my mortgage will be paid off (it's tiny in any case)I hope to have a wind turbine producing electricity for me, plus solar panels on the roof and my grey water from the sink and shower will be diverted and stored in a tank and used to flush the toilet. This will save water charges even more than I do already.I want to be as independant as I possibly can. I already use mostly scrap wood for the rayburn which costs me nothing. The rayburn heats the downstairs, plus I cook on it, plus I dry my laundry on a rack (made myself) which hangs above it, plus I boil my kettle on it and make toast on it and dry my (long) hair in front of the opened oven door and all this for free :2thumb: I aslo run my diesel car on vegetable oil in warmer weather and 50/50 in cold weather. Self sufficient to me means that I don't rely on anyone else to provide my heat or food or life essentials.It means I don't buy 'things' to show off, or designer labels etc. If it's not purely functional I don't want or need it.
So come on. Spill the beans (just don't forget to pick them up again as you need to get them planted soon), let's hear about your self sufficiency dreams and aspirations.


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> was just thinking.
> Why not post here about how you got interested in self sufficiency. When was it and why? What are you doing presently and where do you hope to be in 10 years time?
> I started as a young teenager I suppose. My father then grew his own veggies and kept a couple of chickens in our army quarters. I loved those chickens (Emma and Gerty). Later, I kept a couple of chickens myself, again in married quarters but was told to get rid of them. When I left my husband and moved back to the UK and civvie street, I was determined to have chickens again one day and in the meantime, I bought a book called 'complete guide to self sufficiency' by John Seymour (most of you will know of him). It was my bible. I later remarried and although my hubby was in the airforce,. we lived in our own bungalow in Suffolk where I kept a couple of chickens, 4 dogs, cats, ducks and a pet goose.It was obvious that we needed some land so we moved to Norfolk where property was cheaper and bought an old station master's cottage with half an acre. That was basically where I really got going. Had a pony, had goats, learned to milk, had chickens, learned to kill them and basically worked my way through my bible, trying out most of the things in it.That was in 1981 and now I have my own place in Cambridgeshire with nearly an acre of land. I rear 2 pigs a year, keep goats for meat and milk, keep chickens for eggs and meat and I show them too. Keep ducks and rabbits for meat.I live very simply. Have no tumble dryer or microwave,no cooker other than my old rayburn stove no central heating, no plasma TV no stereo. I try to spend as little money as possible. I'm not a consumer. I rarely buy anything new. I have nothing I don't need and use. I tend to make things rather than buy them. My supermarket shop is around £50 a month maximum. In 10 years time I'll be drawing my pension but hope still to be living my life as I do.By then my mortgage will be paid off (it's tiny in any case)I hope to have a wind turbine producing electricity for me, plus solar panels on the roof and my grey water from the sink and shower will be diverted and stored in a tank and used to flush the toilet. This will save water charges even more than I do already.I want to be as independant as I possibly can. I already use mostly scrap wood for the rayburn which costs me nothing. The rayburn heats the downstairs, plus I cook on it, plus I dry my laundry on a rack (made myself) which hangs above it, plus I boil my kettle on it and make toast on it and dry my (long) hair in front of the opened oven door and all this for free :2thumb: I aslo run my diesel car on vegetable oil in warmer weather and 50/50 in cold weather. Self sufficient to me means that I don't rely on anyone else to provide my heat or food or life essentials.It means I don't buy 'things' to show off, or designer labels etc. If it's not purely functional I don't want or need it.
> So come on. Spill the beans (just don't forget to pick them up again as you need to get them planted soon), let's hear about your self sufficiency dreams and aspirations.


I basically want to begin with rearing all my own meat. For starters. At the moment we grow a certain amount of veg, not enough to keep us going, but a good dent, all out herbs and reuse as much as we can. I myself am not a materialistic person and the only finer things I like in life is food, which if you rear and grow it and know how to cook, can be achieved at home better than anywhere else. The only thing I buy on a semi-regular basis, apart from the usual, is beer, and me and my OH are taking our first step into producing our own, making bitters and stout in the coming future aswell as trying our hands at country wines, with things we can gather.
I'm a massive fan of a free(ish) lunch and like to collect nettles and hedgerow fruits, berries, leaves/flowers and we're looking into nuts, fungi, roots ect.
We like to make a lot of stuff too, especially recycling. Most things we've built recently have been around 80% recycled minimum. Chicken coop, rabbit hutch, ect ect
We're not doing as much as we'd like at the moment, but making steps, reducing our spending aswell as having a better diet and enjoying it, I get a lot of pleasure from the chickens, as well as plentiful eggs. Our food bill has gone down having chickens, aswell as saving money on eggs, we're having more egg based meals which is obviously saving us money.
All in all, what we do self-sufficiency-wise at the moment is very minimal, but we're gonna be doing so much more in the coming weeks, months and years.

Forgot to mention, getting ready and learning about hunting and killing rabbit and game, also looking into fishing for food.


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## Pimperella

Well, Mine started as a kid.
I grew up surrounded by Farms, loads, all within walking distance. Cattle/Dairy farms, Sheep farms, Poultry (Battery farm  and intensive reared meat  ) Pig (again indoor pig crates  )
So I grew up around it, even then I hated seeing the battery chickens, and the poor pigs in crates. Never felt at all right even at 4 yrs old.
My dad had worked for a number of the farmers in our area, or their dads when he was younger. So as a kid I was taken round farms when my dad wet visiting and I loved ever moment of running round farm yards with collies, getting covered up to my knees in cow crap while bringing cows feed in the barns in winter. Helping Milking, Helping feeding. Loved it.
So most of my childhood I got to spend on farms, all summer holidays, walking over the fields behind us and just being allowed to wander around as they all knew me and that I wasn't some townie kid who didn't know about farms. Get milk and sandwiches and sit in the sun on the yard with a collie or 2. Very idillic. So growing up it became part of me, in my blood so to speak. 
My dad grew potatoes in the garden, I got him 3 hens for fathers day when I was 14 with my hard earned wages. Dad loved them and the duck eggs off my Khaki Campbells.
I chose to go to Tottington High School. They had a large flock of Hybrid Chickens, A small flock of 6 to 8 Sheep and a shed full of lovely pure bred rabbits. Well, I had to go, it had the option of a Rural Science GCSE! 
I quickly became involved with the animals. In 3rd year, I was the only one not doing Rural Science that got to go on the Cheshire Agg school trip. I had proved my worth lol (in 1st, 2nd, 3rd yr you had to be sh*t at french to be doing rural science, but they never told you that til they tested you and well I bloody passed and how sad was I stuck doing french when I wanted to be doing rural science which was then classed as being where the thickos went'. ) 
I chose Rural Science as a GCSE and was soon keyholder for the animals, coming checking at weekend. Had to get into school a lot earlier during lambing, to check them in the morning. Few times missing our own assembley, to stand in front of 1st yr, 2nd yr, 3rd ones holding 2 lambs, covered in purple stuff and blood and gunk and spending the rest of the day with my gym kit on! lol
Worked on a friends farm over holidays in my early teens, learnt to drive a tractor, did haymaking, lambing, calving, general farm work.

I went to Bury Collage and did NVQ Animal care 1 & 2, City and Guilds in Petshop Management. Then after a riding Accident, the Riding Instructor I worked for as a Groom, Suggested I go to Myerscough, she had wanted me to do one of the Horse courses. However, I went for the open day and had a look round. I decided to do first National Diploma and went to chat with the Course head. She looked over my NRA and said that I would be better going straight on to the Btec National Diploma instead as I would have covered everything on the 1st National on the other courses.
I joined, went and studied. Became Student President/Council for my course 2 yrs running. Was well respected on the course by Tutors and the farm where I did extra work (The Collages own Dairy farm).
Did Dairy Farm work.

Ended up doing a number of animal jobs through all this, petshops, Labratory, then Livestock Manager of PetSmart in Bolton many years ago now. Then my spine went, I became unable to work and things went a bit sh*t. I had to give up what I loved.
After having Children, I just really wanted them to enjoy what I took for granted. Growing up with animals and understanding farming and the joys of hard work and being outside.
So having poultry is mainly because I haven't the room asyet for as much as I want.
I could maybe get away with a couple of rearing pigs and a couple of goats. But would mean no veg growing lol


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## Pimperella

Sadly, 1 dead in shell, but 
7 Silver Dorkings and 1 Buff Orpington drying off in the incubator before they move to Brooder one tonight.


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## LiamRatSnake

Very happy today, just got 9 eggs from 9 chickens, Jean's finally picked up. Also missus wants some Light Sussex so I'm not complaining about that either, although I'll try and convince her she wants Speckled or Buff too.


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## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Very happy today, just got 9 eggs from 9 chickens, Jean's finally picked up. Also missus wants some Light Sussex so I'm not complaining about that either, although I'll try and convince her she wants Speckled or Buff too.


 ooooh get speckled. They are stunning. Light Sussex are too 'ordinary' for me but I've long hankered after some speckled. Still, I can't have everything I want and am happy with the ones I have. I tend not to buy hatching eggs in as I'm too afraid of mycoplasma so I only tend to hatch the eggs from my own birds.
Still not got my incubator going yet. I just have too much to do. Took double dose painkillers this morning, waited until I could feel nothing, then unloaded the feed sacks from the car into the feed store. My mate Lynne is going to start miuxing her own poultry feed from straights as I now do so I got her what she needed and am giving her a big plastic barrel and lid to store the mix in. I was planning to go and put some spare picket fence sections around the silky shed to let them outside in the sunshine and I was going to start putting the GRP panels onto the greenhouse frame but of course, now that the painkillers have worn off, I'm in flipping agony.
I did get the duck pen dug over this morning so they've all had a wormy feast.And when I went down the bottom this morning I noticed Betty laying down in the goat shed with her bag full up and a mucous plug at her vulva. Trouble is, she doesn't look pregnant and I didn't think she was in kid. I didn't plan any matings but Solomon broke into the goat yard one day last year. I'm sure she came into season shortly afterwards but time will tell. Be nice if she is in kid as it'll be the first time for her. She's a maiden milker who never got milked before I got her. Spent the first 4 years of life with a huge swollen udderr full of milk which was agony for her and the silly townie owners didn't want the hassle of milking her so they didn't bother. When I eventually got her she had really bad mastitis which has destroyed half of one side of her udder. To put into context how painful she must have felt, when she was in full milk last summer, I got one whole black builder's bucket full of milk off her :gasp: !!!! It was bloody heavy to carry. To think of her just being left like that for 3 years doesn't bear thinking about. So it'll be lovely for her to have the pleasure of a kid of her own to rear.
If she is in kid and it isn't simply cloudburst, I expect her to have it sometime in the early hours of tomorrow morning.
Phoebe also looks pregnant and due to drop. She had a kid last year but it was born with deformed front legs and had to be PTS immediately.


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> ooooh get speckled. They are stunning. Light Sussex are too 'ordinary' for me but I've long hankered after some speckled. Still, I can't have everything I want and am happy with the ones I have. I tend not to buy hatching eggs in as I'm too afraid of mycoplasma so I only tend to hatch the eggs from my own birds.
> Still not got my incubator going yet. I just have too much to do. Took double dose painkillers this morning, waited until I could feel nothing, then unloaded the feed sacks from the car into the feed store. My mate Lynne is going to start miuxing her own poultry feed from straights as I now do so I got her what she needed and am giving her a big plastic barrel and lid to store the mix in. I was planning to go and put some spare picket fence sections around the silky shed to let them outside in the sunshine and I was going to start putting the GRP panels onto the greenhouse frame but of course, now that the painkillers have worn off, I'm in flipping agony.
> I did get the duck pen dug over this morning so they've all had a wormy feast.And when I went down the bottom this morning I noticed Betty laying down in the goat shed with her bag full up and a mucous plug at her vulva. Trouble is, she doesn't look pregnant and I didn't think she was in kid. I didn't plan any matings but Solomon broke into the goat yard one day last year. I'm sure she came into season shortly afterwards but time will tell. Be nice if she is in kid as it'll be the first time for her. She's a maiden milker who never got milked before I got her. Spent the first 4 years of life with a huge swollen udderr full of milk which was agony for her and the silly townie owners didn't want the hassle of milking her so they didn't bother. When I eventually got her she had really bad mastitis which has destroyed half of one side of her udder. To put into context how painful she must have felt, when she was in full milk last summer, I got one whole black builder's bucket full of milk off her :gasp: !!!! It was bloody heavy to carry. To think of her just being left like that for 3 years doesn't bear thinking about. So it'll be lovely for her to have the pleasure of a kid of her own to rear.
> If she is in kid and it isn't simply cloudburst, I expect her to have it sometime in the early hours of tomorrow morning.
> Phoebe also looks pregnant and due to drop. She had a kid last year but it was born with deformed front legs and had to be PTS immediately.


I love speckled Sussex, I do light Light Sussex too though and would like a few white birds to break up the brown lol Scratch my last post saying I got 9 eggs, I actually just got another one so 10 today, I'm assuming I must have missed one yesterday or I have one very clever hen.
Good news on the goats, bless her, I never realised they kept on producing milk, just assumed they'd dry up, will be a few years yet before we get goats, Lucy's desperate for some. We had goats in college, so realistically I don't know much about them, cos they were never milked, assuming they've never been mated. Can you get goat food? They were fed on Calf food if I remember rightly.

Just as an afterthought, I might buy her the Katie Thear goat book, keep her quiet for a while.


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## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> I love speckled Sussex, I do light Light Sussex too though and would like a few white birds to break up the brown lol Scratch my last post saying I got 9 eggs, I actually just got another one so 10 today, I'm assuming I must have missed one yesterday or I have one very clever hen.


loads of breeds come in white including orpington and french maran which lay really dark eggs of course.


> Good news on the goats, bless her, I never realised they kept on producing milk, just assumed they'd dry up,


 Most milk through and if not put in kid, would dry up within about 3 years if milked regularly. Betty is a maiden m,ilker so she didn't need a kid to produce milk and as such would keep producing it even if she isn't milked and this causes a massive infection. Her udder was litwerally full of pus when she arrived and she was given antibiotic jabs plus antibiotic squirted through her teats into the udder for a week to cure it.


> will be a few years yet before we get goats, Lucy's desperate for some. We had goats in college, so realistically I don't know much about them, cos they were never milked, assuming they've never been mated. Can you get goat food? They were fed on Calf food if I remember rightly.


 I'm very surprised the goats stayed alive on calf food. Goats are totally different to cattle and sheep in their dietry requirements. Sadly colleges etc aren't aware of this as the college is only as good as the teacher and if the teacher isn't knowledgeable on goats, they get fed stuff which is not only bad, but downright dangerous. There are some good goat mixes on the market. Goats should not have feed containing copper. Most cattle and sheep feeds contain copper which is toxic for goats.Ruminants, with their 4 stomachs need careful management and feeding if they are to stay healthy. Get it wrong and the result is a horrible, agonising death.



> Just as an afterthought, I might buy her the Katie Thear goat book, keep her quiet for a while.


Good idea. There's nothing wrong with learning. Even if you never get goats, the knowledge has been gained.


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## Brat

fenwoman said:


> you ordered? In as 'bought'?? Oh woe is me indeed. You could build one dead easy from stuff you either have in your RUP (Really Useful Pile) or out of some scrounged pallets.Self sufficiency is about making and doing yourself as much as growing your own food after all.:2thumb:


For little over a tenner including delivery for a 330 litre composter, I wasn't gonna say no lol.. I don't have any junk in my garden that I could have made one out of unfortunately and scrounging would involve going to pick it up = petrol + time.



> A quick tip for cheapery. buy a half kilo of sunflower seeds from the pet shop instead of a packet of sunflower seeds. You'll get around 1000 seeds as opposed to around 20 seeds for the same price. You could also think about growing hollyhocks or delphiniums to give height. And if you have things you can use as planters, (an old leaking welly nailed to the wall or any other suitable container) fill with compost and put nasturtiums into the top to cascade over and down. This year, on my sheds, I'm planning to hammer a big nail in, then hang a small car tyre, fill the bottom half with compost and plant flowers. All it'll cost me is the nail as I get car tyres for free from the local independant tyre place who is glad to let me have them as it saves him the disposal fee. Plus they can be used for loads of other things besides, like making a compost maker by stacking them, stacking 5 and putting a black binbag in to create a temporary water butt, stacking and filling with compost to make planters and growing potatoes in a stack, stacking 2 piles of 3 and putting a plank across or an offcut of kitchen worktop to creat a bench to sit on or to display pots or whatever.


Already had the tyre idea.. Somehow got a screw in one of my tyres the other day so have kept the tyre to use to grow stuff in, not sure what yet though.
Already got all our seeds, Mother-in-law is always getting us things (She can't help smothering lol, gotta love her) so she bought us a ton of seeds and I've also swapped her a pot of her mint for some of my sage. We're having a competition this year to see who can produce the best potatoes.
Also got Garlic to grow.



> To be honest, if you have a south facing, sunny and sheltered spot, you can grow most things without a greenhouse. I even grow grapes, peaches and apricots here. If you have a nice south or west facing windowsill, you won't need a propogator as it'll get warm enough on sunny days to start any seeds off.Both myself and my son end up with loads of pots on our sills at this time of year. If you need morwe space than you have sill, simple put some glass shelves across the windows. They allow light into the room whilst giving you the space you need.


I have a huge porch on the front of my house that I have seedling pots in at the mo, there are 3 walls of windows but it's north facing, and only a bit of sun comes from one side. I can't keep any pots on my window sills as my cats (One in particular) are destructive and will knock things off purposely. I may shut off one of the spare bedrooms and use the windowsill in there though.. The cats will hate me as they like to sleep on the double bed in there. 
I still have lots more to plant so will need to find some space to put them all!

I was going to make the origami seedling pots out of newspaper but have just been given a big box full of seed trays and pots :2thumb:


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> loads of breeds come in white including orpington and french maran which lay really dark eggs of course.
> *Aye always fancied some Marans for the eggs. Not a fan of pure white hens. Just like the Light Sussex because of the black necks, looking at Leghorn based hybrids so I can have white hens and white eggs.*
> Most milk through and if not put in kid, would dry up within about 3 years if milked regularly. Betty is a maiden m,ilker so she didn't need a kid to produce milk and as such would keep producing it even if she isn't milked and this causes a massive infection. Her udder was litwerally full of pus when she arrived and she was given antibiotic jabs plus antibiotic squirted through her teats into the udder for a week to cure it.
> *Oh dear. Poor sod. I never knew any animal could produce milk without pregnancy, so that only happens with some goats?*
> I'm very surprised the goats stayed alive on calf food. Goats are totally different to cattle and sheep in their dietry requirements. Sadly colleges etc aren't aware of this as the college is only as good as the teacher and if the teacher isn't knowledgeable on goats, they get fed stuff which is not only bad, but downright dangerous. There are some good goat mixes on the market. Goats should not have feed containing copper. Most cattle and sheep feeds contain copper which is toxic for goats.Ruminants, with their 4 stomachs need careful management and feeding if they are to stay healthy. Get it wrong and the result is a horrible, agonising death.
> *I had a feeling goats shouldn't be fed calf food. Well to be honest that doesn't surprise me, if it wasn't small and fluffy they didn't get much right with it, you should have seen the reptile section. Unfortunately the lady in charge of the animals got her qualifications on the exact same course she now teaches, so was taught what her superiors taught her. I'm surprised they're alive they've had that diet for the past 6 years or so, although to be fair always looked healthy enough, then again I ain't a goat expert. I'm still in contact with one or two people in the college so I'll pass the message along, whether the advice is followed or not, who knows.*
> 
> Good idea. There's nothing wrong with learning. Even if you never get goats, the knowledge has been gained.
> *Aye, that's my thoughts exactly, I might never get goats, but I'd like to learn about them anyway. Lucy wants Pygmys, but with no meat or real milk potential I think she just wants them as pets.*


: victory:


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## fenwoman

Brat said:


> For little over a tenner including delivery for a 330 litre composter, I wasn't gonna say no lol.. I don't have any junk in my garden that I could have made one out of unfortunately and scrounging would involve going to pick it up = petrol + time.


'Junk'? <gasp.....stagger>:gasp: a RUP has no junk. It merely contains useful stuff which you have not yet found a use for. Every self sufficiencer really needs to start a RUP. £10 could buy you all the seeds you need to grow all your veg and salad for the year after all.





> Already had the tyre idea.. Somehow got a screw in one of my tyres the other day so have kept the tyre to use to grow stuff in, not sure what yet though.


I used to have a book which showed how to use stuff other folks threw away and it had a whole section on car tyres and what to make from them. Ideally you need several of them but they can be stored in your RUP.



> Already got all our seeds, Mother-in-law is always getting us things (She can't help smothering lol, gotta love her) so she bought us a ton of seeds and I've also swapped her a pot of her mint for some of my sage. We're having a competition this year to see who can produce the best potatoes.


 Your mum in law sounds like me. I buy stuff for son and soon to be daughter in law. I usually share seeds with them too as a packet holds more than I need. What varieties of spuds are you going to grow? Will you be trenching and earthing up or trying the stack of tyres method?


> Also got Garlic to grow.


 Growing is only part of it. Preserving so as not to waste anything is also vital don't forget.



> I have a huge porch on the front of my house that I have seedling pots in at the mo, there are 3 walls of windows but it's north facing, and only a bit of sun comes from one side.


 I can tell you now that it will be too dark and too cold to start anything successfully. My kitchen and scullery are both north facing and nothing does well in them.


> I can't keep any pots on my window sills as my cats (One in particular) are destructive and will knock things off purposely.


 Mine are the same although what I did was fix a window box to the window frame and put the pots inside that.


> I may shut off one of the spare bedrooms and use the windowsill in there though.. The cats will hate me as they like to sleep on the double bed in there.


 Are you sure you aren't muy daughter in law? She has cats, a spare room and cats which like to use the bed in that room.:lol2:


> I still have lots more to plant so will need to find some space to put them all!


that's always my dilemma, where to put everything I'm growing. Well at least it will be my problem until I get my greenhouse finished. Then they'll all be in there.



> I was going to make the origami seedling pots out of newspaper but have just been given a big box full of seed trays and pots :2thumb:


 Free.....my favourite price :no1:


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> 'Junk'? <gasp.....stagger>:gasp: a RUP has no junk. It merely contains useful stuff which you have not yet found a use for. Every self sufficiencer really needs to start a RUP.


I think we have about half a dozen of those lol We have a pile of tires now too for potatoes this year, only got 4 so one stack at the moment.
As for seedling trays, I use all sorts, egg boxes especially, as when I got chickens everyone brought me all these old egg boxes,.


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## vonnie

fenwoman said:


> was just thinking.
> Why not post here about how you got interested in self sufficiency. When was it and why? What are you doing presently and where do you hope to be in 10 years time?
> I started as a young teenager I suppose. My father then grew his own veggies and kept a couple of chickens in our army quarters. I loved those chickens (Emma and Gerty). Later, I kept a couple of chickens myself, again in married quarters but was told to get rid of them. When I left my husband and moved back to the UK and civvie street, I was determined to have chickens again one day and in the meantime, I bought a book called 'complete guide to self sufficiency' by John Seymour (most of you will know of him). It was my bible. I later remarried and although my hubby was in the airforce,. we lived in our own bungalow in Suffolk where I kept a couple of chickens, 4 dogs, cats, ducks and a pet goose.It was obvious that we needed some land so we moved to Norfolk where property was cheaper and bought an old station master's cottage with half an acre. That was basically where I really got going. Had a pony, had goats, learned to milk, had chickens, learned to kill them and basically worked my way through my bible, trying out most of the things in it.That was in 1981 and now I have my own place in Cambridgeshire with nearly an acre of land. I rear 2 pigs a year, keep goats for meat and milk, keep chickens for eggs and meat and I show them too. Keep ducks and rabbits for meat.I live very simply. Have no tumble dryer or microwave,no cooker other than my old rayburn stove no central heating, no plasma TV no stereo. I try to spend as little money as possible. I'm not a consumer. I rarely buy anything new. I have nothing I don't need and use. I tend to make things rather than buy them. My supermarket shop is around £50 a month maximum. In 10 years time I'll be drawing my pension but hope still to be living my life as I do.By then my mortgage will be paid off (it's tiny in any case)I hope to have a wind turbine producing electricity for me, plus solar panels on the roof and my grey water from the sink and shower will be diverted and stored in a tank and used to flush the toilet. This will save water charges even more than I do already.I want to be as independant as I possibly can. I already use mostly scrap wood for the rayburn which costs me nothing. The rayburn heats the downstairs, plus I cook on it, plus I dry my laundry on a rack (made myself) which hangs above it, plus I boil my kettle on it and make toast on it and dry my (long) hair in front of the opened oven door and all this for free :2thumb: I aslo run my diesel car on vegetable oil in warmer weather and 50/50 in cold weather. Self sufficient to me means that I don't rely on anyone else to provide my heat or food or life essentials.It means I don't buy 'things' to show off, or designer labels etc. If it's not purely functional I don't want or need it.
> So come on. Spill the beans (just don't forget to pick them up again as you need to get them planted soon), let's hear about your self sufficiency dreams and aspirations.


For as long as I can remember my father grew fruit and veg. First on an allotment, and then when we moved to somewhere with a bit of land he created the most amazing fruit and veg plot. I found the house for sale online last year and was really upset to see the whole area had been levelled to build a gym and swimming pool for the current owners :bash: My mother baked almost everything from scratch. Bread, cakes, pies, preserves and chutneys. They weren't big drinkers but what they did drink was their own wine. There was a huge chest freezer in the garage always packed with home-grown or made produce.

The love of poultry comes from my grandfather. Poultry was his life. He was one of the founders of the British Faverolles Society and club secretary for almost fifty years until his death. Growing up his orchard was full of birds, and the house full of show plaques and trophies.

I'm not a consumer either. The rush to spend spend spend on the newest, showiest of everything is completely alien to me. I was brought up to save and to be pretty frugal and it certainly stuck. If I need to spend then I'll pay for quality and durability, but if I don't need (need rather than want!), I'll do without. I re-use or recycle anything I can, and I'm always on the lookout for anything free :lol2: I haven't bought coal or wood to heat the house for over the year. I just collect it from the beach. Most of my furniture is quality old wood bought cheaply at auctions, not flimsy modern rubbish. I don't care about fashion, just function!


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## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> For as long as I can remember my father grew fruit and veg. First on an allotment, and then when we moved to somewhere with a bit of land he created the most amazing fruit and veg plot. I found the house for sale online last year and was really upset to see the whole area had been levelled to build a gym and swimming pool for the current owners :bash: My mother baked almost everything from scratch. Bread, cakes, pies, preserves and chutneys. They weren't big drinkers but what they did drink was their own wine. There was a huge chest freezer in the garage always packed with home-grown or made produce.
> 
> The love of poultry comes from my grandfather. Poultry was his life. He was one of the founders of the British Faverolles Society and club secretary for almost fifty years until his death. Growing up his orchard was full of birds, and the house full of show plaques and trophies.
> 
> I'm not a consumer either. The rush to spend spend spend on the newest, showiest of everything is completely alien to me. I was brought up to save and to be pretty frugal and it certainly stuck. If I need to spend then I'll pay for quality and durability, but if I don't need (need rather than want!), I'll do without. I re-use or recycle anything I can, and I'm always on the lookout for anything free :lol2: I haven't bought coal or wood to heat the house for over the year. I just collect it from the beach. Most of my furniture is quality old wood bought cheaply at auctions, not flimsy modern rubbish. I don't care about fashion, just function!


 You and I are probably very alike Vonnie. Sadly no beach close to me but I scavenge for wood.I'm currently burning old pallets which I break up. Of course it's warm enough now to let the stove go out overnight and I only light it in the afternoon when I'm back indoors again as I tend to want to be outside during fine weather, even if it's just sitting with a coat on, in the sunshine, reading a book. I guess my Romany genes want out.
Sadly, the rayburn needs new firebricks and the firebox door has warped so it won't stay lit overnight on just wood. So In cold weather I have to add coal to keep it in. This year however, I'm saving to buy myself a brand spanking new Italian stove, all shiny and new and energy efficient. Compared to the new Rayburn they are a snip. A mere £700 compared to £3000+
I'm lucky enough to have a large car plus several trailers so I can take a ride out if I notice free wood to burn anywhere like I noticed earlier this week that a farmer had lopped loads of his poplar trees. I'll ask him if I can have them first obviously. But a local-ish skip hire company is also great as they sort the contents of the skips and remove any wood and let people come and take as much as they want , for free. It saves them money on landfill fees. It's very easy to live frugally. All it requires is effort instead of cash. Sadly, I think this life style has been lost as most young people prefer to throw cash at something in order that they don't need to make any effort.


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> You and I are probably very alike Vonnie. Sadly no beach close to me but I scavenge for wood.I'm currently burning old pallets which I break up. Of course it's warm enough now to let the stove go out overnight and I only light it in the afternoon when I'm back indoors again as I tend to want to be outside during fine weather, even if it's just sitting with a coat on, in the sunshine, reading a book. I guess my Romany genes want out.
> Sadly, the rayburn needs new firebricks and the firebox door has warped so it won't stay lit overnight on just wood. So In cold weather I have to add coal to keep it in. This year however, I'm saving to buy myself a brand spanking new Italian stove, all shiny and new and energy efficient. Compared to the new Rayburn they are a snip. A mere £700 compared to £3000+
> I'm lucky enough to have a large car plus several trailers so I can take a ride out if I notice free wood to burn anywhere like I noticed earlier this week that a farmer had lopped loads of his poplar trees. I'll ask him if I can have them first obviously. But a local-ish skip hire company is also great as they sort the contents of the skips and remove any wood and let people come and take as much as they want , for free. It saves them money on landfill fees. It's very easy to live frugally. All it requires is effort instead of cash. Sadly, I think this life style has been lost as most young people prefer to throw cash at something in order that they don't need to make any effort.


Hey, I'm younger and I don't throw cash at anything  Tighter than a fishes arse me. If it's free, I'll have it.


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## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Hey, I'm younger and I don't throw cash at anything  Tighter than a fishes arse me. If it's free, I'll have it.


obviousl'y you aren't 'most' then :lol2:
It has been said of me that I'm tighter than a mackerel's bumhole. And that's watertight. But that's just a vicious slur on my frugal nature :bash::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> obviousl'y you aren't 'most' then :lol2:
> It has been said of me that I'm tighter than a mackerel's bumhole. And that's watertight. But that's just a vicious slur on my frugal nature :bash::Na_Na_Na_Na:


Ha ha ha.... I drive my OH mental 'What are you keeping that for?' Cos it will come in use one day, that's why. 'Don't go into that skip' 'You don't need that' 'Why are you collecting tins, newspapers, bottles' 'Are you even going to use that?' She's always moaning lol


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## Pimperella

LiamRatSnake said:


> Ha ha ha.... I drive my OH mental 'What are you keeping that for?' Cos it will come in use one day, that's why. 'Don't go into that skip' 'You don't need that' 'Why are you collecting tins, newspapers, bottles' 'Are you even going to use that?' She's always moaning lol


 
lol It's great fun is skip diving! lol
My mum 'Trained' us as kids. She'd have us in skips, pointing out stuff to get and if anyone went past she would shout 'What have I told you lot about playing in Skips!' then soon as they had gone it was 'Get me that Chair/Table/dresser etc lol

So now, whenever I see a skip I need to have a nosey. Just ask, you've nothing to lose. I was walking up my road and a house being done up had skip outside with a matching cat carrier and covered litter tray! They were clean aswell! Well, Having them, as I say.
And currently, Housing are doing work on the houses round here and fitting new central heating and bathrooms. So has been loads of Lengths of wood, plywood etc So every Morning I have been in as soon as dropped Alex from school as the skip is near my house. All the workmen know as I asked nicely. So my RUP has been growing back up again with lots of battons of wood and bit of ply. Bonus was that they have removed the airing cupboards in the houses and the 'Towel Rack' bits have been left intact. They are like perfect 'ladders' for the chickens or perching racks when legs are added lol But all ready made up. 
Building sites are another good one. I have got sections of Site panels (And a few panels to collect when I have someone to help me as can't do those on my own and when hubby is home so are the kids lol) 
Even had builders give me full lengths of battoning (10ft lengths of 1x 1 1/2inch). So always worth asking about.
The Factory behind me, I get as many Sheets of Plywood as I could ever want. So we always have Plywood sheets stocked up on, and when running low we do another Run with teh wheel barrow and Washing machine trolly lol


ooooooooo And on Monday, my mate gave me a lift to Barnsley to Collect 3 Buff Orpington Cocks, 3 Buff Orpington Hens and a trio of Black Pekins.
They are Fabulous. All 3 Cockerals from different bloodlines but all from top winning show breeders. So with the 3 Buff Orp hens I already had, I now have 3 sets of Buff Orpington trios!
Had 2 eggs off the new girls yesterday!
The Black Pekins are breeding Quality and have come from very good lines. Brother to my cockeral won his breed class at the National, same with sister of 1 of the hens. Had an egg off them yesterday aswell.


Then yesterday afternoon, a mate of mine msn'd me to say her mate near her, who we had both helped out when he started with Ducks, had had a complaint over noise and wanted to quickly get rid of most of his Ducks.
So he came over last night with a Breeding Pair of Show Quality White Runner Ducks, a Young Trio of White Runners at 14 weeks old and a 3 wk old Female white Runner Duckling.

Pictures to follow.


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## Pimperella

My Pownell Line Buff Orp Cockeral and 3 Hens.

















My Heath & Williams and Will Burdett Buff Orp Cockerals with my 3 Buff Orp Hens.

























My trio of Black Pekin Bantams.









My Pair of White Runners Ducks.









My Trio of Young White Runner Ducks.









and My 3 week old Female White Runner Duckling.


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## LiamRatSnake

You only do this to wind me up Laura lol The ducks are beautiful :gasp::mf_dribble:And the orps. Bleh. :flrt:


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## fenwoman

Poor old Betty h as such a fgull bag. She was always my best milker but now she has her kid she's huge. She has enough mil;k to feed 6 kids. So I milked her off a bit this evening just to give her some comfort. There's plenty for her kid. Will start back milking her twice a day again now, never stripping her out completely as she still has to feed the kid. I have nevwer in my life removed a kid from it's mother and simply bottle fed it, as a lot of goat breeders do. I've alsways just taken enouggh and left plenty. Tonight I got 6 litres off Betty and her bag was still only half empty. Looks like Bread and butter opudding and rice pudding is on the menu here again. The dogs got loads to drink too. I am freezing the surplus. When Phoebe and Louise kid, I'll be awash with milk :gasp:


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Poor old Betty h as such a fgull bag. She was always my best milker but now she has her kid she's huge. She has enough mil;k to feed 6 kids. So I milked her off a bit this evening just to give her some comfort. There's plenty for her kid. Will start back milking her twice a day again now, never stripping her out completely as she still has to feed the kid. I have nevwer in my life removed a kid from it's mother and simply bottle fed it, as a lot of goat breeders do. I've alsways just taken enouggh and left plenty. Tonight I got 6 litres off Betty and her bag was still only half empty. Looks like Bread and butter opudding and rice pudding is on the menu here again. The dogs got loads to drink too. I am freezing the surplus. When Phoebe and Louise kid, I'll be awash with milk :gasp:


Is it easy making cheese with it?


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## Pimperella

I know Ste would be making Cheese. He loves Goats Cheese and so does Alex.
Swear, 8 yrs old and she is a cheese mad little gorl. She loves nothing more than being at the farmers market. Trying out cheeses and getting the buy the ones she likes. It's one thing she did say when we talked about having goats when the kids are older. How she would love to make her own cheese.


The 5 Runner ducks have been having a great time in the garden today. My 1 Lone Duckling has been having so much fuss, bless her, that she is so tame. Would like to get her another Duckling for company tho.

and got a text this evening off a lady I had some polands off. She has 3 Brahma Lf hens, Gold, and had seen my wanted ad for hens for Stephen's Lovely Dark Brahma Cockeral 'Mr President' . So she's offered them to me, a lot less than she was going to sell them for, and bring them over so they can stock up on plywood lol 
So he will have 3 ladies of his own breed at least lol He deserves it. After being dumped on us half dead, squashed under some hybrid laying hens (Hidden as he hadn't mentioned a cockeral, let alone a 16 week old, half starved baby) And after Hubby nursing him back to health, he was so thin he could barely stand. To look at him now, you really wouldn't think he almost died. Still has a lot of growing to do, they don't stop growing till years old and he is only 9 months old. But he will have his girls now! lol

Eggs going in the hatcher now, and then eggs going in the bator.
6 silver dorkings, 6 la fletch, 6 japanese bantams, 4 red dorkings and 2 legbars. Then my eggs from this week. 1 oeg bantam, 1 buff sussex bantam, 2 poland, 4 buff orpington (dave Pownall line).

Into hatcher are going 6 silver dorking, 4 japanese bantam and 3 light sussex.


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## Pimperella

Candled the eggs at school this morning with yr 5.
The kids were all amazed but creeped out by it lol Seeing all the viens and movement. And many comments of it being like an eye ball lol

So out of the eggs the class has

2 ot of 6 Legbars.
3 out of 6 Buff Orpingtons
4 out of 6 Light Sussex and 6 out of 6 Welsummers.

Been looking through the information booklets that the children have made with info on the 4 different breeds.
Some really well presented booklets. 1 lass had not only done a whole breed discriptions and history in her own words but had also got photos of the different breeds as Chick, Hen and Cockeral. They are a really good class and have done some fantastic work.
Ste is building a special Brooder for the Class. Even got castors for the bottom. Gonna be one that is safe and easy to use and clean in the class room. Aswell as being easy for me to move home again. The eggs are due to hatch on Wednesday but the children break up the next week on the thursday so will only have the chicks for a week before breaking up for easter.


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## fenwoman

LiamRatSnake said:


> Is it easy making cheese with it?


it isn't difficult at all. Nor is butter making. They need time however and I haven't any spare right now as besides my own chores and projects, I am helping my friend to sort out her garden and barn which hasn't been touched for 2 or 3 years.The barn's full of assorted junk and has been used as a dumping ground for useless things like ripped old chairs, broken cupboards and the like so we are going to pull everything out, burn anything combustable and then neatly stack anything useful. The village pub is just across the road from her house so we are going to have a pub lunch on the weekend as a reward for our efforts :2thumb:


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## vonnie

In case anyone's got a Lidl near them, I went in tonight and they have some VERY cheap fruit plants

Raspberry canes, blackcurrants and gooseberries all 3 for £2.49 or 9 for £6. Need growing on a bit but still a bargain me thinks !

And strawb plants 6 for £3.99 or 12 for £7, and they looked nice and healthy.

Am trying to get my head around where to plant them before I go back tomorrow and buy lots :2thumb:


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## LiamRatSnake

vonnie said:


> In case anyone's got a Lidl near them, I went in tonight and they have some VERY cheap fruit plants
> 
> Raspberry canes, blackcurrants and gooseberries all 3 for £2.49 or 9 for £6. Need growing on a bit but still a bargain me thinks !
> 
> And strawb plants 6 for £3.99 or 12 for £7, and they looked nice and healthy.
> 
> Am trying to get my head around where to plant them before I go back tomorrow and buy lots :2thumb:


Off to Lidl next week I think...
Could do with some new strawberry plants, ours are on about 10 generations lol


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## Pimperella

got 1 Light Sussex hatched so far! 

Got some of the eggs I bought this morning. I got 4 Ebden Goose Eggs, 12 Croad Langshan eggs and 6 gold laced Orp eggs but 1 was broke in post.
So they are being set in the morning.

Ste's building the school Brooder this weekend. Making a nice special one that will be easy to clean and also good for the chicks and class.


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## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> In case anyone's got a Lidl near them, I went in tonight and they have some VERY cheap fruit plants
> 
> Raspberry canes, blackcurrants and gooseberries all 3 for £2.49 or 9 for £6. Need growing on a bit but still a bargain me thinks !
> 
> And strawb plants 6 for £3.99 or 12 for £7, and they looked nice and healthy.
> 
> Am trying to get my head around where to plant them before I go back tomorrow and buy lots :2thumb:


 Hehe. Yes there is a LIDL near me but I won't be paying those prices :gasp: I get strawb plants for £5 per 50, and fruit bushes for around 50p each. That's cos I'm lucky enough to live in one of the largest arable areas in the country and all this stuff is produced here :2thumb:


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## LiamRatSnake

fenwoman said:


> Hehe. Yes there is a LIDL near me but I won't be paying those prices :gasp: I get strawb plants for £5 per 50, and fruit bushes for around 50p each. That's cos I'm lucky enough to live in one of the largest arable areas in the country and all this stuff is produced here :2thumb:


Alllllllllllllllllllllways showing off :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## vonnie

You're lucky though Fenny. It's a fraction of the prices I'd have to pay up here.

I'd love to have something like that produce auction you posted pics of a while back. Instead we got a farmers' market once a month where the prices are absolute madness!


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## Nicky10

I've always wanted a few chickens to raise for meat and eggs if anyone can recommend good books/sites for chicken care and easy breeds that make nice meat. Maybe some strawberries as well. We do have potatoes in out back garden which we think the dog managed to plant by taking some peelings out the back. They are yummy. No problem with vermin with a terrier around so that should be ok.


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## adamntitch

Nicky10 said:


> I've always wanted a few chickens to raise for meat and eggs if anyone can recommend good books/sites for chicken care and easy breeds that make nice meat. Maybe some strawberries as well. We do have potatoes in out back garden which we think the dog managed to plant by taking some peelings out the back. They are yummy. No problem with vermin with a terrier around so that should be ok.


 
get katie thors book on chickens is one of the best altho am unsure i spelt that name right


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## Nicky10

Ok I'll have a look for it


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## adamntitch

Nicky10 said:


> Ok I'll have a look for it


no probs and for the best poultry advice ask pimperella fenwoman or vonnie am sure thats the user names there like poultry gods


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## Brat

adamntitch said:


> get katie thors book on chickens is one of the best altho am unsure i spelt that name right


Katie Thear :2thumb:
I know as I have the book right next to me.. Definitely reccomended.


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## Tommy123

Laura, thos orps and pekins are stunning :2thumb:
Loving the ducks too, what other ducks do you keep?


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## Pimperella

Tommy123 said:


> Laura, thos orps and pekins are stunning :2thumb:
> Loving the ducks too, what other ducks do you keep?


Well, aswell as the new Runners. I have a group of Muscovies in Black&White and Lavender&White. Pair of Khaki Campbells and Pair of Aylesbury.
Got 12 Alyesbury eggs and 6 White Runner Duck eggs to go in the bator (Bought in) and 4 Ebden Goose Eggs.


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## LiamRatSnake

adamntitch said:


> get katie thors book on chickens is one of the best altho am unsure i spelt that name right


I'd second this. Although if you want pretty pictures get a Chris Graham book eg Choosing and keeping chickens. A combination of the two would be perfect, Katie Thear's information and Chris Graham's pictures lol


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## Tommy123

Pimperella said:


> Well, aswell as the new Runners. I have a group of Muscovies in Black&White and Lavender&White. Pair of Khaki Campbells and Pair of Aylesbury.
> Got 12 Alyesbury eggs and 6 White Runner Duck eggs to go in the bator (Bought in) and 4 Ebden Goose Eggs.


Nice:flrt:
I did have 3 aylesbury, but they died 
I now have 3 call duck eggs in the incubator though, due 28th march


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## fenwoman

vonnie said:


> You're lucky though Fenny. It's a fraction of the prices I'd have to pay up here.
> 
> I'd love to have something like that produce auction you posted pics of a while back. Instead we got a farmers' market once a month where the prices are absolute madness!


 Oh I know I'm very fortunate.Not just produce but plants etc too including trees. People come from all over the country to our produce and plant sales, especially from London, and in particular the market traders.


Nicky10 said:


> I've always wanted a few chickens to raise for meat and eggs if anyone can recommend good books/sites for chicken care and easy breeds that make nice meat. Maybe some strawberries as well. We do have potatoes in out back garden which we think the dog managed to plant by taking some peelings out the back. They are yummy. No problem with vermin with a terrier around so that should be ok.


The author who several have already mentioned is the oracle on all things poultry. She's written a lot of books on poultry and livestock, dairying etc. The book you need to look for is titled 'Starting with chickens' by Katie Thear.It's £6.95 if you buy it new but you can sometimes get it used off ebay or amazon. Are you looking for a dual purpose breed?Only you mention meat. It depends what meat you want. If you want tender roasting chickens, then you are probably best off with a hybrid meat bird. Buy in at anything from day old, and ready to kill at about 10 weeks. The copckerels from dual purpose birds like marans, take a bit longer to mature and may not be as tender. You would in any case have to keep your laying flock and your meat birds seperately as they have different feed requirements . Ideally do not let the meat birds free range otherwise they get nice muscles on their legs, and muscles are tough and sinewy. I keep my meat cockerels in a large shed with a mesh door to allow fresh air and sunshine etc. Have you killed and dressed before or will you attend a course?


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## Nicky10

I'll get that book thanks. Dual purpose preferably I like both eggs and the meat. What sort of hybrid should I be looking for? I'll be attending a course on how to kill and dress them before I get them no idea how to do that.


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## fenwoman

Nicky10 said:


> I'll get that book thanks. Dual purpose preferably I like both eggs and the meat. What sort of hybrid should I be looking for? I'll be attending a course on how to kill and dress them before I get them no idea how to do that.


A dual purpose breed I recommend is the maran. It was developed by the French to be just that. You get a good meat bird in the cockerels. However, they don't grow as fast as the hybrid meat birds such as the Ross Cobb. You have to confine the maran cockerels and not let them run about too much or they get tough. They also will not be ready to kill until they are nearly 5 or 6 months old. By that stage the meat will be darker and not as tender as your 9-12 weeks old ross cobb. I breed my own birds because I show my birds. If I wanted chickens purely for eggs and meat, I think I'd probably buy in day old ross cobbs or a similar meat hybrid, and have a seperate laying flock of whatever took my fancy but which produced various coloured eggs.


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## Pimperella

Thats why I have got my order placed for my meat chicks from Poulet (Simon) aswell as meat ducklings.

Got 8 hens and 4 cocks in 2 pens of Amber Link Hybrids to produce my Egg layers for my replacment laying flock.


Dead chuffed cause I have been waiting on fertile eggs from my Polands. Only started laying the odd few eggs start of last month. Put 4 eggs in and non fertile.
2 eggs I put in are fertile!! Dead chuffed, Put in 3 more with a batch on saturday and got 5 saved up to go in on wednesdays batch. 

Got 3 pens of Polands. Still wanting a few more hens. But currently I have....

1 Cuckoo Frizzle LF cockeral with 1 White Crested Black Smooth LF Hen

1 Silver Laced Smooth Bantam Cock with 1 Goldlaced Frizzle Hen

1 Chamois Smooth Bantam Cockeral with 1 White Crested Blue Bantam Hen, 1 Chamois Frizzle Bantam Hen, 1 White Bantam Hen.


So should have a nice mix of colours. Nope, won't have any for sale as any we hatch will stay or have people lined up for (Family! lol)


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## vonnie

I could cry. A fantastic NT property has come up. The sort of thing that appears ... well never around here! 

But apart from the fact it's so inaccesible I know the OH will say no (which is fair enough I suppose as he's the one who has to get to Newcastle in all weathers for emergency on call!), the application blurb is more than a bit infuriating. As if they haven't got enough money, it's not about who'll make the best tenant at all, it's about who's prepared to spend the most on doing up THEIR house for them! And full costings and quotes mind, everything cast in stone before the closing date's arrived. I mean it'd be a full-time job to collate all that information in time!

So, much as I want the land that goes with it, I think I'll pass on that :lol2:

Annoying though that the properties I want around here are never available. Almost all the land and cottages belong to a few big estates. And I'm not prepared to sell up and rent, and lose my place on the property ladder!

Huge sigh


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## Pimperella

vonnie said:


> I could cry. A fantastic NT property has come up. The sort of thing that appears ... well never around here!
> 
> But apart from the fact it's so inaccesible I know the OH will say no (which is fair enough I suppose as he's the one who has to get to Newcastle in all weathers for emergency on call!), the application blurb is more than a bit infuriating. As if they haven't got enough money, it's not about who'll make the best tenant at all, it's about who's prepared to spend the most on doing up THEIR house for them! And full costings and quotes mind, everything cast in stone before the closing date's arrived. I mean it'd be a full-time job to collate all that information in time!
> 
> So, much as I want the land that goes with it, I think I'll pass on that :lol2:
> 
> Annoying though that the properties I want around here are never available. Almost all the land and cottages belong to a few big estates. And *I'm not prepared to sell up and rent, and lose my place on the property ladder!*
> 
> Huge sigh


Thats why you rent out yours. Thus keeping your property and giving you an income off it to pay it's mortgage.

Then rent the property you can with land.

I know someone who has done this because they breed large breed dogs and needed a lot more space. So they rented out their house and now rent a farm.


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## Brat

My Verm-X sign and free bits for the cats and rabbit arrived today - Impressed


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## Pimperella

School had 8 chicks at last count. Could be more by morning. But Incubator and chicks will be coming home with me at end of school Friday. Then chicks back to school on Monday. Then home with me on Thursday for good as start of Easter Holidays.


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## Tommy123

Tommy123 said:


> Nice:flrt:
> I did have 3 aylesbury, but they died
> I now have 3 call duck eggs in the incubator though, due 28th march


:devil::devil: Well what a scam these eggs were, they hatched out as chickens . I think there silkie x maran or something along those lines. Not happy. 
On the other hand, since then I bought a pair of white call ducks, and a pair of khaki call ducks. Of which 8 eggs from the khaki call ducks are in the 'bator and I've sold 10. The whites aren't laying yet, but will hopefully be soon!


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## Pimperella

Tommy123 said:


> :devil::devil: Well what a scam these eggs were, they hatched out as chickens . I think there silkie x maran or something along those lines. Not happy.
> On the other hand, since then I bought a pair of white call ducks, and a pair of khaki call ducks. Of which 8 eggs from the khaki call ducks are in the 'bator and I've sold 10. The whites aren't laying yet, but will hopefully be soon!


 
Thats disgracefull! Hope you have complained mightily!

I got Aylesbury eggs. had 3 fertile.
2 dead in shell. both blue and white!!!! 1 Hatched is yellow but has black spot on bum. Checked out other pics and has aylesburys in pen with blue runners! so I have what I think is a runner x aylesbury. if male it will be a table bird.

Just had 6 Runners hatched, 3 Blue, 2 lavender and 1 white and our 10th Poland Chick! more due Friday lol

The 10 Poland Chicks we have, only 1 was from bought in eggs. They were the first eggs that they had started laying before getting into the swing of things so I set them alongside others being set.










Fully paid up member now of the Croad Langshan Club. We have 54 Black Croad Langshans and 4 White Croad Langshans. They are listed as Critical with the Rare Breed Trust. Whites are even Rarer than Blacks so I hope I get soem lovely chicks from my 2 pairs. They are fabulous big soft feather heavy birds with Feathered legs and feet. The blacks have a wonderful beetle green sheen. and they lay a pinkish egg ofter refered to as having a plum blush. Like the white 'frosting' seen on fresh plums, craods lay brown eggs and this 'frosting' gives them a pink or purple look.

Some of my Croad Langshan Growers from a top breeder in Dorset.









These are my pride and joy now. And hoping very much that my furture show birds are in this bunch of growers and chicks. I have gotten then from very good breeders of quality show winning birds. So every chance.
The 42 Blacks and 4 whites I got from a Breeder in Dorset have settled down fantastic although they are getting through 25kilo of growers pellets a week on free flow feeding lol But all the better for growing nice and healthy. Along with greens, grit, pasta and rice but limited as they are prone to getting fat.

Nice Black Pullet (little girl in chicken speak)









Lovely White Boy. Bit Grubby from travelling all the way from Dorset to Manchester. Just a bit of poo lol










I plan to keep a good sized flock of Blacks. Something around 10 to 20 Hens and 2 to 6 Cockerals all depending on Type and Size. 
With the hens I will be 'nest trapping' when they come into lay so I can write down the ring numbers of any laying the Plum Blush eggs. Then I can balance it all out. I have 3 Chicks rung that have come from Blush eggs so any cocks will be furture egg colour breeders.


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## Pimperella

Just some pics of a few of my other birds but I do have a serious amount of birds. lol


Stan Lee. Creole Frizzle Poland Cockeral. He's dad to most of the Poland chicks so far.










Monty. Hubby's Large Fowl Dark Bramha Cockeral.









Monty and his Girls

















Monty, Mr President and the Interns.









Bantam Leghorns. 1 Black Cockeral with 2 black and 1 lavender hen.









Black Pekins

















Younger grower Cock Self Blue Japanese Bantam. We have also hatched a blue splash and a lavender on a seperate hatch and they are looking to be hens.









cute chicks, these 2 chicks are Crosses. Rhode Island Red Bantam mum and Frizzle Poland 'Stan Lee' is dad.
They have both turned out frizzle, be interesting to see how they turn out. My hen had over wintered with the polands and well. Had a little space in the bator and rather than eat the 2 eggs she gave me that week I put them both in.

















and 2 white poland Chicks.
2nd picture shows difference in Smooth and Frizzle feathers when they first come through.


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## Nicky10

You're making me really chicken broody now and I can't get any until I move. Beautiful birds though


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## Shell195

Some gorgeous birds there Pimps. Stan lee is stunning:flrt:
What colour are the black polish with the white hats classed as, they are very cute:flrt:


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## Pimperella

Shell195 said:


> Some gorgeous birds there Pimps. Stan lee is stunning:flrt:
> What colour are the black polish with the white hats classed as, they are very cute:flrt:


I love Stan, however, not his constant 'BuarkBuarkbuark' Like he's a hen whos just laid a huge egg lol
The Black polands with white poms are 'White Crested Blacks or possibled they could be cuckoo. lol


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## bosshogg

OMG Pimp there all looking grand if them japs weren't Alex's i would be putting them in my pocked next time i come!! i'm now seriously brooder for some more chickens!!


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## Pimperella

Just set another batch of eggs in the bator.

11 Green Legged Partridge Fowl 
10 Old English Pheasant Fowl
6 La Fleche (Devil Fowl)

and from my own birds which have been showing good fertility
10 Buff Orpington LF
4 Buff Sussex bantam
7 Poland
6 Bramha (Dark and Gold LF)
2 Amber Link
1 Leghorn Bantam

and fertility testing on 
3 Gold Partridge Pekin
6 Black Pekin


Got due this week
18 La Bresse eggs (French Meat bird, red comb, white body, blue legs)
12 Freisian Fowl
12 Poland
6 Double Laced Barnevelder
12 Turkey eggs (Collecting Friday from Local Breeder)


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## leggy

So the man who owns the Allotments has granted me a plot to keep chickens. Any ideas for cheap fencing thats Fox safe. Also what meat birds would you guys go for. We is a big family so need good size birds :lol2: We are also getting some ex battery hens for the eggs : victory:
We are doing well as we have two plots for veg and now the chickens. :2thumb:


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## Pimperella

leggy said:


> So the man who owns the Allotments has granted me a plot to keep chickens. Any ideas for cheap fencing thats Fox safe. Also what meat birds would you guys go for. We is a big family so need good size birds :lol2: We are also getting some ex battery hens for the eggs : victory:
> We are doing well as we have two plots for veg and now the chickens. :2thumb:


 
I can sort you the details of the guy I get my meat chicks off. They are day olds and at 80p each or he does eggs at 35p each.
They are JA757 Hubbards or Ross Cobbs. 
He's based in Lincolnshire but if your on his route and can meet the driver on his route then he will be happy to drop off smaller orders.
They reach good weights with Cocks reaching kill weight around 15 to 18 wk old and hens at 18 to 20 wk. Good sized birds and easy feed a good sized family. Finish them off on Corn, with Oats soaked in warm milk in the evenings a few nights a week for last few weeks. mmmmmmmmmm


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## leggy

Can you pm them to me please :2thumb:


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## Tommy123

Some stunning birds pimperella. My ducks are due soon, yayyy!!


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## Pimperella

Tommy123 said:


> Some stunning birds pimperella. My ducks are due soon, yayyy!!


 
Thank you, and thats a mere fraction of the birds we have.

Certainly doing great hatching this year, making up for last year. 
But think that was aminly when I hit the warmer weather and humidity went haywire,
This year I am stopping hatching in May. Ready to grow on birds through the summer months and you never know, I might have hatched some show birds.
Planning on going to Honley show in June. Not just entering birds either.
My muscle spasms have stopped me sewing as much laterly. But I have a couple of months and I am going to make a special Farm style hat so taht I can enter it in the craft class.

I will be showing some of my croad Langshans if they are ready lol Only hatched Jan and they are slower growing, but if I can get to the National or Fed shows this winter then I will be showing Black Croad Langshan Large Fowl. Hubby has to make me some special large tall carry boxes so that they don't damage tail feathers lol and I need one of those trollys with wheels like at dog shows, to fit them all on lol
Hopefully I can get a mate to spend the weekend at the show with me.


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## Shell195

Advice wanted please

At the sanctuary we have a number of ducks, geese and chickens that free range in 3 seperate paddocks all with a large pond
A few days ago the Muscovy ducks on the paddock attached to the stables were let out and we found one day in a standing [position. We thought this was a one off as some are quite old. 2 days later we found a drake dead in the same shed and took the body to the vets to have a pm. The vets opened him up and said all they could find was to little fat on his belly. All the ducks have been put on Baytril. Yesterday we found another duck shaking and showing what can only be described as neurological symptoms so we got an emergency appointment at the vets and they kept her in but this morning she died. They have sent her body to DEFRA in preston for a full necrosis so we will have to wait for a diagnosis.
This morning we have another duck who is very quiet and has gone off to the vets.
The only ones affected at the minute are the Muscovy ducks
Has anyone any idea what this could be?


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> Advice wanted please
> 
> At the sanctuary we have a number of ducks, geese and chickens that free range in 3 seperate paddocks all with a large pond
> A few days ago the Muscovy ducks on the paddock attached to the stables were let out and we found one day in a standing [position. We thought this was a one off as some are quite old. 2 days later we found a drake dead in the same shed and took the body to the vets to have a pm. The vets opened him up and said all they could find was to little fat on his belly. All the ducks have been put on Baytril. Yesterday we found another duck shaking and showing what can only be described as neurological symptoms so we got an emergency appointment at the vets and they kept her in but this morning she died. They have sent her body to DEFRA in preston for a full necrosis so we will have to wait for a diagnosis.
> This morning we have another duck who is very quiet and has gone off to the vets.
> The only ones affected at the minute are the Muscovy ducks
> Has anyone any idea what this could be?


I would assume it's a disease that doesn't affect Mallards and chickens/geese. Although I'm trying to think what makes Muscovies different to other ducks, eg grazing on grass so could be some kind of poisoning which maybe the other poultry wouldn't pick up as they tend not to graze, apart from the geese. Also their inclination to eat vermin could pick up something from them. Also they love slugs and things, and I'm pretty sure poultry can get lungworm from slugs, like dogs.


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## Shell195

LiamRatSnake said:


> I would assume it's a disease that doesn't affect Mallards and chickens/geese. Although I'm trying to think what makes Muscovies different to other ducks, eg grazing on grass so could be some kind of poisoning which maybe the other poultry wouldn't pick up as they tend not to graze, apart from the geese. Also their inclination to eat vermin could pick up something from them. Also they love slugs and things, and I'm pretty sure poultry can get lungworm from slugs, like dogs.


 
It is quite worrying. On this paddock we had 6 Muscovy ducks, 2 geese, 3 cross bred runner ducks and 8 large chickens plus various amounts of bantam cockerels that flit between 2 of the paddocks. At the minute we have lost the Muscovy drake, 2 of his ducks and another ill at the vets but nothing else has been infected. We have scrubbed down the concrete horse yard and have taken out 1 third of the pond water and replaced and we are doing this daily as the vet advised(without disturbing the bottom silt) We have more muscovies in a different location and up to now they havent been infected. The vet did mention that it could be some kind of poisoning but we have no old paint etc that they could have ingested and the farmer hasnt sprayed anything in the neighbouring fields.
We have another paddock so we can rest the land and have moved all these birds onto this for the time being.
C Botulism has been mentioned too but the pm the vet did showed no signs of this, I suppose we will have to wait for DEFRA to complete their tests


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> It is quite worrying. On this paddock we had 6 Muscovy ducks, 2 geese, 3 cross bred runner ducks and 8 large chickens plus various amounts of bantam cockerels that flit between 2 of the paddocks. At the minute we have lost the Muscovy drake, 2 of his ducks and another ill at the vets but nothing else has been infected. We have scrubbed down the concrete horse yard and have taken out 1 third of the pond water and replaced and we are doing this daily as the vet advised(without disturbing the bottom silt) We have more muscovies in a different location and up to now they havent been infected. The vet did mention that it could be some kind of poisoning but we have no old paint etc that they could have ingested and the farmer hasnt sprayed anything in the neighbouring fields.
> We have another paddock so we can rest the land and have moved all these birds onto this for the time being.
> C Botulism has been mentioned too but the pm the vet did showed no signs of this, I suppose we will have to wait for DEFRA to complete their tests


I was very worried about botulism and was one of the first things that came to mind. It's commonly transmitted from something which has fermented, compost heaps are very common. Even by eating slugs/worms that have been in the compost. I'd have thought though that the other poultry would have been affected if it was the pond though.

I read about botulism a while ago and symptoms (as far as I can remember) included limpness of neck/wings/legs ect But sometimes followed by a sudden recovery once the toxins had gone through the system.

Forgot to mention that it can be picked up from spoilt/mouldy food too. Doh.


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## Shell195

LiamRatSnake said:


> I was very worried about botulism and was one of the first things that came to mind. It's commonly transmitted from something which has fermented, compost heaps are very common. Even by eating slugs/worms that have been in the compost. I'd have thought though that the other poultry would have been affected if it was the pond though.
> 
> I read about botulism a while ago and symptoms (as far as I can remember) included limpness of neck/wings/legs ect But often followed by a sudden recovery once the toxins had gone through the system.


 
There are no compost heaps nearby, our vet said that wild birds can transmit it too but surely if it was that the other birds would have been affected too. I suppose there is still time for that though


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> There are no compost heaps nearby, our vet said that wild birds can transmit it too but surely if it was that the other birds would have been affected too. I suppose there is still time for that though


I didn't know that. It would make sense though as muscovies are more likely to graze than chickens who just pick bits up.


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## Shell195

They get their food trays changed and refilled daily so I cant see it being that. The girls also do the rounds refilling the waters during the day.
We do have a muck trailer but its nowhere near these birds


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> They get their food trays changed and refilled daily so I cant see it being that. The girls also do the rounds refilling the waters during the day.
> We do have a muck trailer but its nowhere near these birds


Muscovies still eat a lot of grass, where other birds could be pooing. Other ducks and chickens don't really eat much grass - but geese do.
Anyway, fingers crossed it's not something that will transfer to everything else.


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## Tommy123

Pimperella said:


> Thank you, and thats a mere fraction of the birds we have.
> 
> Certainly doing great hatching this year, making up for last year.
> But think that was aminly when I hit the warmer weather and humidity went haywire,
> This year I am stopping hatching in May. Ready to grow on birds through the summer months and you never know, I might have hatched some show birds.
> Planning on going to Honley show in June. Not just entering birds either.
> My muscle spasms have stopped me sewing as much laterly. But I have a couple of months and I am going to make a special Farm style hat so taht I can enter it in the craft class.
> 
> I will be showing some of my croad Langshans if they are ready lol Only hatched Jan and they are slower growing, but if I can get to the National or Fed shows this winter then I will be showing Black Croad Langshan Large Fowl. Hubby has to make me some special large tall carry boxes so that they don't damage tail feathers lol and I need one of those trollys with wheels like at dog shows, to fit them all on lol
> Hopefully I can get a mate to spend the weekend at the show with me.


Do you know how many you have? You must have quite a few! We have rhode island reds now,as I type this, first rhodes we've hatched. They'll be massive to us, because we're use to small pekins!! I want to start showing, what do you think is the best show chicken or duck?
Cheers.


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## Shell195

LiamRatSnake said:


> Muscovies still eat a lot of grass, where other birds could be pooing. Other ducks and chickens don't really eat much grass - but geese do.
> Anyway, fingers crossed it's not something that will transfer to everything else.


 
Thanks Liam


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> Thanks Liam


Please let us know when you find out. : victory: Muscovies are one of my favourite of all poultry.


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## Shell195

The duck at the vet died overnight. At the minute no more look ill, they are having Baytril, only time will tell


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> The duck at the vet died overnight. At the minute no more look ill, they are having Baytril, only time will tell


Sorry about that. Fingers crossed for the rest.


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## Nicky10

When can you start planting strawberries? I want to start growing some in pots for when I move.


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## LiamRatSnake

Nicky10 said:


> When can you start planting strawberries? I want to start growing some in pots for when I move.


It's a bit late, I'd say sept-april. Although just buy established plants now and you'll probably not get much this year, but plenty next.


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## Nicky10

Ok I'll get them next year then


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## sphynxskin

Did anyone watch How To Live A Simple Life BBC2 last night?
Wished I lived down south, seems to be an endless amount of 
food you can forage for as well as having walnut trees:mf_dribble: unfortunately
they don't grow up north 

Wasn't impressed with the vicar throwing a bantam cockrel in with 4 full size hens which started attacking the poor thing!


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## LiamRatSnake

sphynxskin said:


> Did anyone watch How To Live A Simple Life BBC2 last night?
> Wished I lived down south, seems to be an endless amount of
> food you can forage for as well as having walnut trees:mf_dribble: unfortunately
> they don't grow up north
> 
> Wasn't impressed with the vicar throwing a bantam cockrel in with 4 full size hens which started attacking the poor thing!


I know, that poor cockeral lol Also illegal that he was feeding them scraps (meat scraps too). On another note, he's an absolute fruitcake.


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## leggy

right got given a free poly box from local rep shop.
going to get a heatmat and stat and temp gauge.


do you reckon i would be able to incubate turkey eggs in it?

i know there going to be have to be turned by hand.


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## LiamRatSnake

leggy said:


> right got given a free poly box from local rep shop.
> going to get a heatmat and stat and temp gauge.
> 
> 
> do you reckon i would be able to incubate turkey eggs in it?
> 
> i know there going to be have to be turned by hand.


Can't see why not as long as you can keep the temps high enough. With a poly box you could easily make it semi-automatic with a tray for the eggs and a peice of dowel pushed through the box.


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## Shell195

We now have one remaing muscovey duck on the stable yard and still no results:bash: We have to wait for the cultures to grow:devil:


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> We now have one remaing muscovey duck on the stable yard and still no results:bash: We have to wait for the cultures to grow:devil:


Argh, bloody hell. How's the remaining one doing?


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## Shell195

LiamRatSnake said:


> Argh, bloody hell. How's the remaining one doing?


 
The same as the rest were. They stay well eat and poop normally then wham they are off their legs and dead in hours(we have taken to having them put to sleep at this stage as we know they wont recover:bash:


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> The same as the rest were. They stay well eat and poop normally then wham they are off their legs and dead in hours(we have taken to having them put to sleep at this stage as we know they wont recover:bash:


Oh dear. Hope you find out ASAP.: victory:


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## Shell195

Results for the ducks are now back. It is DVE which isnt good news, our vets are now trying to source the vaccine(from Slimbridge) so we can have all the ducks on the premises vaccinated. It may be to little to late but we have to try. We now only have 1 Muscovy duck alive on the stable yard but one of our runner ducks is now ill at the vets(this may not be related so the vets are treating her) Very depressing


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> Results for the ducks are now back. It is DVE which isnt good news, our vets are now trying to source the vaccine(from Slimbridge) so we can have all the ducks on the premises vaccinated. It may be to little to late but we have to try. We now only have 1 Muscovy duck alive on the stable yard but one of our runner ducks is now ill at the vets(this may not be related so the vets are treating her) Very depressing


What's DVE? Duck enteritis? If so, sorry to hear about it cos it ain't good news. Hope the vaccine comes through in time.: victory:


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## Pimperella

Shell, I am so sorry that you are losing ducks so rapidly. I hope that the vet can sort something out quickly. 


We've just had a great hatch this week.
11/12 Brahmas (from our own birds). 2 La Fleche, 5 Buff Orpingtons(3 ours 2 bought in), 1 splash Orpington, 2 Polands (homebred). Hubby is made up cause the Brahmas are his flock and so 11/12 chicks means a good start.
Hubby got me for new huge shed up, just got to get it lined inside and insulated and get my brooders set up inside it.
Got loads and loads of plywood and some pallets with really long planks to take apart and get some new coops built. First lot of growers went outside and sadly we lost a few (but a few from 78 birds is good going).
Croads are doing fab, hubby is starting to really like them as they are so easy to work with, catch and put away cause if they are out, you can just walk up and pick them up as they sit looking at you while cripuping to be picked up.
Got lots of new pens to put up.

Only thing being is that none of my ducks are laying! My runners, all in moult. Muscovies haven't even started laying this year, nor my khaki or alyesbury pair (tho they are youngsters who haven't started laying yet lol) Hubby is wanting his duck eggs for baking) Swimming in Chicken eggs off the laying flock.


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## Shell195

LiamRatSnake said:


> What's DVE? Duck enteritis? If so, sorry to hear about it cos it ain't good news. Hope the vaccine comes through in time.: victory:


 
Yes, Duck viral enteritis:bash: We have read so much about it my head is spinning. Slimbridge may have some vaccine we can buy as it only comes in 500 or 1000 dose vials, if not we will get them to contact their vet as they import it for them and may have some in stock. The symptoms wernt typical which is why all the confusion at the vets but the cultures showed it was a definate cause of death.We are doing all the ducks and geese and thibk it may have been brought in by a carrier mallard as we have a pair that visit the sanctuary ponds. The remaining Muscovey duck is still alright and we will see tomorrow if the runner duck is still alive as if she is then it wont be connected. God knows what will happen if we cant get hold of the vaccine


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## LiamRatSnake

Pimperella said:


> Shell, I am so sorry that you are losing ducks so rapidly. I hope that the vet can sort something out quickly.
> 
> 
> We've just had a great hatch this week.
> 11/12 Brahmas (from our own birds). 2 La Fleche, 5 Buff Orpingtons(3 ours 2 bought in), 1 splash Orpington, 2 Polands (homebred). Hubby is made up cause the Brahmas are his flock and so 11/12 chicks means a good start.
> Hubby got me for new huge shed up, just got to get it lined inside and insulated and get my brooders set up inside it.
> Got loads and loads of plywood and some pallets with really long planks to take apart and get some new coops built. First lot of growers went outside and sadly we lost a few (but a few from 78 birds is good going).
> Croads are doing fab, hubby is starting to really like them as they are so easy to work with, catch and put away cause if they are out, you can just walk up and pick them up as they sit looking at you while cripuping to be picked up.
> Got lots of new pens to put up.
> 
> Only thing being is that none of my ducks are laying! My runners, all in moult. Muscovies haven't even started laying this year, nor my khaki or alyesbury pair (tho they are youngsters who haven't started laying yet lol) Hubby is wanting his duck eggs for baking) Swimming in Chicken eggs off the laying flock.


Sounds good Laura. Looking forward to the muscovies laying, will be nice to see the lavender's babies. How are they doing by the way? Kim n Aggie too?


Shell195 said:


> Yes, Duck viral enteritis:bash: We have read so much about it my head is spinning. Slimbridge may have some vaccine we can buy as it only comes in 500 or 1000 dose vials, if not we will get them to contact their vet as they import it for them and may have some in stock. The symptoms wernt typical which is why all the confusion at the vets but the cultures showed it was a definate cause of death.We are doing all the ducks and geese and thibk it may have been brought in by a carrier mallard as we have a pair that visit the sanctuary ponds. The remaining Muscovey duck is still alright and we will see tomorrow if the runner duck is still alive as if she is then it wont be connected. God knows what will happen if we cant get hold of the vaccine


Argh how crap. I've heard it can come from wild populations, only worry is that it'd be risky taking in ducks as if it is from wild ducks they could be re-infecting the ground. It's a real bugger you can't get smaller vaccines cos then small breeders could do their poultry (especially things like silkies with Mareks and of course sanctuaries/poultry keepers).
Good luck to you, I have all my digits crossed.


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## Shell195

Thanks Pimps. Our vets have sourced the vaccine, they only have the 1000 dose vials in this country at the minute, it will cost £160 and has to be used within 6 hours once its made up. We have asked the neighbouring farms and friends if they want to get thier ducks done too, so we can get at least some of the money back, at the minute we only have 35 ducks to do but we have still ordered the vaccine as we dont want to lose anymore


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## Nicky10

Moving tomorrow so I'll have room for chickens, some fruit etc. Can't wait I won't be getting them right away though


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## Shell195

Duck vaccination day tomorrow


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## LiamRatSnake

Just to keep this thread going I've had a fairly self-sufficient day today. I made us nettle soup for lunch and have just got my first homebrew going, 40 pint wet kit (Woodfordes), so not free, but £15 for 40 pints, not half bad. And Shell, how are the ducks doing?


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## Shell195

We lost the last muscovy duck. They are all vaccinated now and neighbours and another rescue brought theirs so we vaccinated 65 ducks in total. We still have the drakes and a few other assorted ducks that are in different paddocks as well as the 6 geese but they have all been vaccinated and it takes a week to kick in so fingers crossed that is the end.I still cant believe that the vaccine isnt available for the smaller duck owner or that people arent made more aware of this deadly virus


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## LiamRatSnake

Shell195 said:


> We lost the last muscovy duck. They are all vaccinated now and neighbours and another rescue brought theirs so we vaccinated 65 ducks in total. We still have the drakes and a few other assorted ducks that are in different paddocks as well as the 6 geese but they have all been vaccinated and it takes a week to kick in so fingers crossed that is the end


How crap. I have my fingers crossed. Really hope all goes well.


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## Pimperella

Yay!!!!! I have a fully wired up and working brooder shed! Got all but 1 of my brooders all set up in there now. All my growers coming on well, apart from the ones I have had to cull out (Cockerels which are not gonna make the grade for breeding, and will take too long to rear, become dog food)


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## Pimperella

God it has been such a busy week!! Kids have been on half term and I have been entertaining them constantly lol 
That and all the farm work ontop lol 

Tomorrow I am getting everything ready to set an Incubator up at the soecial school my son is at. I have loads of eggs saved up from this week from my Chucks. Buff Orps, Polands, Buff Sussex Bantams, Bramhas, Gold Partridge Pekins.
Wish my Japanese cocks and Legbar Cocks were old enough as getting loads of eggs from them but all just for eating. Then my pen of 4 D'anvers hens (2 Black, 1 Lavender, 1 Cuckoo) have just come into lay (hatched in Jan) but again I have no Cock lol They have been so mollycoddled (just like everything else) but because they are just soooo dam adorable, they get carried around on shoulders all the time or having kissy hugs lol
Been getting 95% to 100% fertility on my eggs so far so school should get a really great hatch.


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## bosshogg

Pimperella said:


> ey get carried around on shoulders all the time or having kissy hugs lol
> Been getting 95% to 100% fertility on my eggs so far so school should get a really great hatch.


cos you got a top incubator who ever built it is a genius
:flrt::whistling2:

not got any chooks at mo been to farm today and came back with some eggs but not the same as having my girls at home


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## Pimperella

bosshogg said:


> cos you got a top incubator who ever built it is a genius
> :flrt::whistling2:
> 
> not got any chooks at mo been to farm today and came back with some eggs but not the same as having my girls at home


 
You know hun that soon as your set, that you can have any fertile eggs off me that you want, and to you for nowt. 
And any extra chicks I may have aswell. You know I would never see you without.


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## bosshogg

Pimperella said:


> You know hun that soon as your set, that you can have any fertile eggs off me that you want, and to you for nowt.
> And any extra chicks I may have aswell. You know I would never see you without.



I know hun :flrt: and im glad that the bator is getting some use instead of sat here unloved


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## sphynxskin

*green caterpillars!*

Help...i've got tiny little pee green caterpillars munching away at
newly planted lola rosso lettuce:war: I'm new to veggie growing and don't really want to use pesticides, will diluted washing up liquid work?

Will i have to use netting to prevent the moths /butterflies from laying their eggs from now on?

Thanks


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## Moosey

Well this needs a bump. I've just spent hours reading it, interesting stuff!


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## Moosey

BAMP.

Me and the OH have just started thinking about getting a small holding in the (distant!) future and I have a few questions.

What are the rules and regs of keeping pigs?

What are good breeds of pig for tasty tasty meat?

How readily available are courses on killing and preparing your own chickens/ducks?

Is it worth going to things like auctions and game/farmey type shows just to begin to get an idea of whats about?


Cheers x


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