# 5 Min Moan



## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

THE THING THAT I HATE IS WHEN I RING UP A SHOP OR A SELLER TO FIND OUT WHAT DWA SNAKES THEY HAVE IN STOCK OR SELLING THEY ALWAYS TALK IN LATIN NAMES
Yes I know it's the way so no mistakes can be made But I can't even read the flipping things never mind pronounce so when I ask for common names the seller gets all hoyty toyty And says do you have Dwa, Do you know what this is, What have you got at the moment, Do you know this could kill you and all daft questions.

Just because I'm crap at English OR Latin don't mean I can't look after Dwa it ain't brain surgery

So the next person who starts talking Latin will lose a sale 

Most reptiles are sold everyday in the UK By the common names but DWA is by Latin WHY..!!!!!!
If you are selling you shouldent get all up your own backside ya should just chill a bit go with it. As at the end of the day unless a licence is produced you dont sell it and if a licence is produced it's nothing to do with you as a seller if I dont know the latin name or is it ??


Thats my moan over with thanks
This has been edited from the 18+ section


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## milly (Dec 25, 2007)

i understand where your coming from


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

LMAO.

I think that it is down to the fact that common names can sometimes be applied to many snakes rather than just one and with DWA it is often more important to know exactly which species you acquire. If you ever did get bitten it can be vital to know the exact species and even the locality can make some difference. Its not people trying to be elitist or anything. Also I think that it is more important to encourage perspective DWA keepers to know as much about their animal as possible.


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## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

i find that if they use latin names as already said it tries to ensure that people have done there research in to the animals they are looking into buying. but i do think that animals should be marked up with not only there latin names but there common name to.

just my opinion though personally i make sure i know the latin names of the prospective animal that i am looking into buying especially that i am now looking into getting my dwa at some point this year for that exact reason.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Personally if I am buying something then I know the latin name. 

No matter what industry you are in if you are into things that are rare/collectables you should know the "technical" name surely.. no point going into a garage and saying can I have a screwdriver if there's 50 different types of tool that might go by that name, they're not going to take you as a serious mechanic if you don't even know the name of what you want.

It's too easy to make mistakes if you're dealing in advanced animals with common names. I'd rather an animal have just the latin name, than just the common name.


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## Burmese Man (Jan 10, 2007)

Athravan said:


> It's too easy to make mistakes if you're dealing in advanced animals with common names. I'd rather an animal have just the latin name, than just the common name.


i agree with you i just think that they could put the common name on lables with the latin name i like to know the latin names of the animals i own as well as any information i can find on them


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

ok point one, people are not up there own ** just cos they speak on scientific names, take a typical example, an eyelash viper, lets say they get bitten by one, what name do you give the hospital, is it the south american one, the african one or the indonesian one, thats why most dwa keepers do use scientific names, antivenom is labelled by scientifc names, 

it is also a good thermometer on how much research a dwa keeper has done, no it isnt brain surgery but it does require a brain. All the non venomous keepers i know also use scientific names, are they up their own, or is it that they just have gone into to things a bit more than most, yer know actually read books and such like, 

in regard to shops, asking do you know that they can kill you, doesent seem that bad to me, you may get cheesed off, but i am sure they are just trying to be responsible, no more than they get cheesed off with every numpty under the sun, wanting to know how much a rattlesnake is,


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I don't understand the latin names so when people have them in their sig, for example, i don't have a clue what snakes they have!!:lol2:

Surely its better to say the latin name and the common name as then you can't get muddled up!!: victory:


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Although technically, it should be 'scientific names' because there are a lot of Greek and made-up words in there!


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## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

personally i find it easier to deal in latin names for most things.....

in the pet trade it doesnt matter so much but as mentioned before.... with DWA species you have to know exactly what you have in case the worst happens... thats just good sense... the degree of "rocket science" relating to husbandry is completely irrelevant. This is especially important as some hot species have many many subspecies, with considerable variation between them in terms of venom compostition... the administration of incorrect antivenom is obviously something you dont want.... (take the "saw-scale viper" Echis subspecies... 

the other thing is that with alot of the rarer and less commonly kept species there are no common names....

and my last point... sorry if it offends.... if you dont know what the latin names are and you actually wanna know then get off your ass and look them up... google or books or whatever...

just my 6 eggs.....


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

leptophis said:


> ok point one, people are not up there own ** just cos they speak on scientific names, take a typical example, an eyelash viper, lets say they get bitten by one, what name do you give the hospital, is it the south american one, the african one or the indonesian one, thats why most dwa keepers do use scientific names, antivenom is labelled by scientifc names,
> 
> it is also a good thermometer on how much research a dwa keeper has done, no it isn't brain surgery but it does require a brain. All the non venomous keepers i know also use scientific names, are they up their own, or is it that they just have gone into to things a bit more than most, yer know actually read books and such like,
> 
> in regard to shops, asking do you know that they can kill you, doesent seem that bad to me, you may get cheesed off, but i am sure they are just trying to be responsible, no more than they get cheesed off with every numpty under the sun, wanting to know how much a rattlesnake is,


I do understand what you are saying. But if I was to ring your shop up and ask what venomous snakes you have is stock/ or for sale and you came back with 20 (OK) scientific names won't mean a thing to me and ill just say OK thanks and put fone down where as if you came back with 20 common names in there might be one or two that I'm interested in and then would and take it from there. That does not mean I'm a numpty.

And as for getting a bite and the hospital not knowing surly all the correct info would be sorted when I do a protocol sheet



Ho and my 5 mins are up thanks.............


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

youll find that when u emailed me i replied with some latin and some common, as the ones where i gavce the common name would be meaningless to most people, however and i say this for venomous keepers only, in my opinion, a knowledge of the scientific names of the species you keep, is essential, and shows the level of reading a keeper has done, 

no it doesent make u a numpty, but arguing people who use scientific names are up their own bums is pretty stupid , as its not important does, you may have a protocol sheet, but a knowledge in your own head to pass onto people is far better, if you dont have that knowledge how do u know the protocol species is right. 

in regards to your point about a shop missing out on a sale, i would much rather miss out, and sleep at night, than sell something like that to someone, who hasnt done the basic reading, if this offends you sorry but it is the case, most shops who do venomous, are not going to sell to someone, who clearly hasnt the knowledge, and scientific names whilst not being a complete indication, is a partial one. 

Nobody is trying to put you down or make u a brain surgeon, but they are trying to make you understand, that it does require attention to detail, I personall dont know any venomous keepers who dont have a working knowledge of the main scientific names, and as many people have put, there are lots of non venomous keepers who use them all the time, this gives them extra knowledge in my books, knowing a gtp or scrub or carpet is in the same family, aids in your keeping, its a good thing to learn new skills, and gain more information not a bad one.


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

leptophis said:


> youll find that when u emailed me i replied with some latin and some common, as the ones where i gavce the common name would be meaningless to most people, [/quote
> 
> Thanks but I'm not referring to the email that was easy as it's in front of me to sort out, it's when on the fone to someone and all they want to do is talk Latin names. and then I ask for the common name All of a sudden i'm treated like a joker and that does pi** me off
> I do understand where you are coming from knowing the correct info and giving the correct info and how important it is as sometimes it may lead to life or death but over the fone on a enquirey is it necessary this is all im trying to say
> ...


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

i know you werent, i was using it as an example

but you have to realise that sopme people use scientific so much they dont even think about it when using them, many of the non venomous breeders as well as venomous keepers i know all use the scientific, but without even thinking about it, 

and can i say it does you no good to come onto a public forum and moan about it in this way.


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

leptophis said:


> and can i say it does you no good to come onto a public forum and moan about it in this way.


 
Point taken but it was just my 5 mins moan :bash:


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## rockkeeper (Apr 5, 2007)

> and can i say it does you no good to come onto a public forum and moan about it in this way.


isnt that what forums are about, to disscus matters,
as he sayes having his 5 min moan, so be it, 

re the moan if your knowledgeable to know all the latin names should you not also know the comman name to match also,esp if your the seller ??


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I find that most of the books I read use scientific names, as well as common so I just try and remember the scientific ones, it helps when talking to other keepers especially ones from different countries on venomdoc forum common names are used very rarely, so its a bit confusing if you dont have a rough idea.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

So your expecting someone on the phone to take your word, without even asking, that you are capable of keeping venemous?

The VAST majority of venemous keepers know what the scientific name of the species they keep is. The fact that you more closely resemble the average muppet who hasn't a clue is a problem you have to deal with, not the guy on the other end of the phone. All he has to do is make sure he is legally safe.

Quite simply, if you don't like it then learn the names. All that crud about poor memory is worthless. I bet if i asked you a question about HOW to keep a snake you would remember.
This comes down to you not being ar*ed to learn the names. To be honest, that's just fine it is your perrogative and you're welcome to it. Don't expect others to bend to your way of thinking though, you are in the minority.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I don't know the scientific but i have them typed up so that if i need to know quickly or if i'm going to Hamm or something then i can print off the Word document!! Easy!!:lol2:


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## benjrobinson (Feb 22, 2007)

reticulatus said:


> So your expecting someone on the phone to take your word, without even asking, that you are capable of keeping venemous?
> 
> Surely they can assume he has dwa etc etc for the time being because the sale is not going to go through until a license has been produced so their is no need to doubt in the first instance is there???
> 
> And in terms of being capable, when can any seller be sure that someone is capable of looking after the animal? anyone can put a front on.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

benjrobinson said:


> reticulatus said:
> 
> 
> > So your expecting someone on the phone to take your word, without even asking, that you are capable of keeping venemous?
> ...


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

brian said:


> it's when on the fone to someone and all they want to do is talk Latin names. and then I ask for the common name All of a sudden i'm treated like a joker and that does pi** me off


I don't own anything more venomous than a Hognose. But you can bet that I know that our Western Hognose is _Heterodon_ _nasicus_ _nasicus_ - in case *I* or someone else has a bad reaction if they get bitten. I know the scientific binomials of animals I never intend to keep as well as every animal I do - and I wouldn't buy an animal without knowing what it IS and what it's RELATED to. The best tool for that is knowing its genus and species instead of using a generic name like "rat snake" or "eyelash viper".



> I'm defiantly not saying Latin names should not be used but a time and a place.


I thought that you had to obtain a DWA for a specific species - that it isn't a generalised license you get for everything DWA, but that you had to tell your council exactly what and how many animals you want to obtain. In which case, don't you already KNOW everything about the species you want to obtain - and isn't this the time and place to know the binomial or at least the genus of the species you want?

Or are you still browsing? In which case, I'd have thought it would be easier to ask the shop "Do you have any XYZ" instead of asking them "What do you have?" and getting upset when they give you precise answers instead of easy ones? Easy enough to ask "Do you have any Beaded lizards*, rattlesnakes** or cobras***?" and then you won't be disappointed with their response.

* _Heloderma_ sp.
** _Crotalus_ sp. - at least North American ones are.
*** _Naja_ or _Ophiphagus_ - Kings are _O_. _hannah_ if I remember rightly.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

markhill said:


> benjrobinson said:
> 
> 
> > unless its recently been changed, neither buyer nor seller need to produce a licence at the time of sale or at any other time whilst arranging the sale.
> ...


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

* _Heloderma_ sp.
** _Crotalus_ sp. - at least North American ones are. or sisturus
*** _Naja_ or _Ophiphagus_ - Kings are _O_. _hannah_ if I remember rightly.also hemachatus, paranaja, boulengerina, pseudohaje, aspidilaps etc


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

jaysnakeman said:


> * _Heloderma_ sp.
> ** _Crotalus_ sp. - at least North American ones are. or sisturus
> *** _Naja_ or _Ophiphagus_ - Kings are _O_. _hannah_ if I remember rightly.also hemachatus, paranaja, boulengerina, pseudohaje, *aspidilaps* etc


:whistling2:

All initial letters of the genus should be capitalised, the whole word should be in itallics and the correct spelling is _Aspidelaps._

If you're going to correct her do it properly :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

jaysnakeman said:


> * _Heloderma_ sp.
> ** _Crotalus_ sp. - at least North American ones are. or sisturus
> *** _Naja_ or _Ophiphagus_ - Kings are _O_. _hannah_ if I remember rightly.also hemachatus, paranaja, boulengerina, pseudohaje, aspidilaps etc


_Sisturus_ = Pygmy rattlers, yes?
_Hemachatus_ = Rinkhals?
_Paranaja_ = Monotypic species _P_. _multifasciata_, the Burrowing Cobra

I think you get the point. If you have a genus name... you can find out about the species readily enough and provide common names. It took me less than five minutes to get those three (Google is your friend)... 

And good point, Jay, there are other genera that I don't know about, simply because I don't keep venomous. Thank you for pointing them out to me - I'll have to have a looksee now simply because I DON'T recognise the genus names (though _Pseudohaje_ and _Aspidelaps_ sound familiar) even though I don't particularly want to keep a cobra-type snake.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> markhill said:
> 
> 
> > You can't legally sell a DWA animal from a shop without proof that the customer has a DWA license.
> ...


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## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

markhill said:


> reticulatus said:
> 
> 
> > what about private sales?
> ...


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

its not just about the letter of the law, I like to sleep at night, so selling a venomous snake to someoone who may have a license but shows none of the knowledge, would worry me to much, thats a jusgement we make, and we always err on the side of caution, and i believe most dwa shops do the same, i dont know anyone who just sell dwa wihtout finding out a bit about the person, i am sure it goes on but mostly not, 

as Dan says most people do use them, and therefore it would be in your interest on numerous levels to learn it,


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I work alot in taxonomic names, and with the rare species, i often do not know or forget a common names. This is especially true for rarer species in the hobby, like hots and many spiders. 

Just as i wont expect people to know all the names i am talking about, i dont expect them to talk in terms that i understand (for really rare animals or ones i do not know) If somone mentions a name i do not know i will gather the type of animals from the context, and research later, ask or just go without. 

If im calling such a shop, i have reference books on had so i know what is what etc. 

Just my 2 pence


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

I have to disagree with the OP.

Many species have multiple common names, some just made up on the spot or plucked from locals, some species have confusingly similar common names.

I want tyo know exactly what i'm buying and if the worst should happen I want the hospital to know EXACTLY what bit me.

Common names are in places confusing, wrong in others. Different species called different things in different places/by different people.

Also as has been said it is , generally speaking, a good way for seller to root out the "I wanna cobra" clan.

I'm afraid that there are so many reasons why speaking in sci names makes so much sense and so many arguments agains using common names.

To be honest it is in both the seller and buyers interest to deal in scientific names.

Mason


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> Just because I'm crap at English OR Latin don't mean I can't look after Dwa it ain't brain surgery


I see your point, but in the same way that you say that keeping snakes isn't "brain surgery", its also not as difficult as brain surgery to take the time to learn the latin/scientific names of snakes. Rightly or wrongly, knowing the scientific name does give you added credibility and as has been said, its also a lot more practical as it eliminates any confusion that may be associated with using common names.

Stuart


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

one other important point is it's often necessary to deal with people from other countries, talking in scientific names reduces the risk of confusion.

Scientific names also leave no room for slang, pronunciation, local variations in names etc.

there are also many, many species of venomous snake in particular with no common name, at least not one globally accepted, maybe not even accepted or known outside of the village the bloke who catches them lived in when he was younger. 

Mason


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Just reading this and what i find as a good example sprang to mind.

Say i had a shop and was selling venemous and you rang me. I give you a list with Fer de lance on it, which species would i be talking about?


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

> Just reading this and what i find as a good example sprang to mind.
> 
> Say i had a shop and was selling venemous and you rang me. I give you a list with Fer de lance on it, which species would i be talking about?


Are you an French ironmonger selling spear-heads? :lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

reticulatus said:


> Just reading this and what i find as a good example sprang to mind.
> 
> Say i had a shop and was selling venemous and you rang me. I give you a list with Fer de lance on it, which species would i be talking about?


Bothrops asper?


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

SiUK said:


> Bothrops asper?


 
Bothrops lanceolatus
B. caribbaeus
B. atrox
B. asper

are all "fer de lance"

whch I think it the point Dan was trying to make, along with several others amongst us.

Mason


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> Bothrops lanceolatus
> B. caribbaeus
> B. atrox
> B. asper
> ...


exactly


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

essexchondro said:


> Are you an French ironmonger selling spear-heads? :lol2:


Je ne comprends pas? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

and Guess like you just did would be exactly what the hospital would have to do in case of a bite if you didn't have the correct scientific name. I don't know much about them and don't know if the venom/anti-venom differs between the 'lancehead' species at all but it's still not a risk i'd like to take.

Another reason a "fer de lance" is a good example is the vast variety of common names they can have depnding on where you are and who you're talking to. I know at least one is refered to as the "common lancehead" so if Dan hypothetical shop sent out a list with 

"common lancehead (fer de lance) Bothrops Sp."

on it i'd GUESS at it being a B. Atrox but guessing isn't something i'd ever like to do when dealing with a venomous snake.

Mason


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

thats why I wouldnt be owning a snake like that without knowing the correct scientific name.


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

would you be more likely to sell someone a hot if they knew the scientific name than if they didn't know it?
Based on that one small piece of information you would be more likely to sell to me if I asked you for a _Bitis gabonica_ than if, for example Brian asked you for a Gaboon Viper? 

That's a bit prejudice, its like taking one persons advice over another's just because they have a higher post count on a forum which as we all know does happen.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

markhill said:


> would you be more likely to sell someone a hot if they knew the scientific name than if they didn't know it?
> Based on that one small piece of information you would be more likely to sell to me if I asked you for a _Bitis gabonica_ than if, for example Brian asked you for a Gaboon Viper?
> 
> That's a bit prejudice, its like taking one persons advice over another's just because they have a higher post count on a forum which as we all know does happen.


I'm not sure who you're actually aiming that at..but as far as I can see no-one has said that..just trying to illustrate why it is a very good idea to use scientific names when dealing with venomous snakes.

It's far from prejudice, more common sense. there are more reasons why using the sientific names is a VERY good idea than there are reasons not to use scientific names.

Mason


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

markhill said:


> would you be more likely to sell someone a hot if they knew the scientific name than if they didn't know it?
> Based on that one small piece of information you would be more likely to sell to me if I asked you for a _Bitis gabonica_ than if, for example Brian asked you for a Gaboon Viper?
> 
> That's a bit prejudice, its like taking one persons advice over another's just because they have a higher post count on a forum which as we all know does happen.


Yes, i would be FAR more likely to sell to someone who knew the scientific name.

This isn't prejudice and it is nothing like compairing post counts. What it does do is tell me that this person has bothered to learn atleast the very basic name for the animal they want.

That doesn't just go with venemous but ANY type of reptile. In my opinion the very least a new owner can do is find out what the animal they want is really named.


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

markhill said:


> would you be more likely to sell someone a hot if they knew the scientific name than if they didn't know it?
> Based on that one small piece of information you would be more likely to sell to me if I asked you for a _Bitis gabonica_ than if, for example Brian asked you for a Gaboon Viper?
> 
> That's a bit prejudice, its like taking one persons advice over another's just because they have a higher post count on a forum which as we all know does happen.


Have you not read anyones posts?


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## markhill (Sep 22, 2006)

Angi said:


> Have you not read anyones posts?


yes, I read the whole thread and the person my post was aimed at( without directly aiming it at anyone) has answered and said what I expected them to say.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

for the sake of your life its wise to know the latin of any venomous you keep. in a crisis situation saying 'its a big green one' is unlikely to impress the liverpool school of tropical medicine. nor get you antivenine any quicker.

scientific names in venomous are a must.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

i think this thread says it all, dan has replied and said alot of my thoughts, and i think it is easier to learn them than anything else, my 8 year old knows some of them so i am pretty sure you can do it, you seem to have a problem being expected to, but look at it in reverse, its another skill which is worth doing


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> in a crisis situation saying 'its a big green one'


now thats just taking it to a new level of ridiculous though:lol2:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I'd like to give you a little example. 

Bob buys a green mamba, Bob doesnt do Latin so he forgets the silly long name that the seller told him. To make himself feel comfortable, bob looks at pictures on Google, and being a green mamba he thinks it is the more common _Dendroaspis viridis_ and prints a emergency sheet for this species. 

The snake bites bob and he is administered "FAV-AFRIQUE" the AV of choice for _D.viridis._

Bob suddenly suffers an anaphylactic shock and your situation worsens. After treating the shock, they see no improvements to the condition so continue to administer another 30 vials of FAV-AFRIQUE. over a 24 hour period. During this time they have chemically induced a coma, and suppressed his immune system. 

After 30 hours, BOB dies, despite the hospitals best efforts. 

Bobs collection is sent to London zoo, where the snake that bit bob is identified as _Dendroaspis angusticeps_. FAV-AFRIQUE is ineffective. And SAMIR PV should have been used, which because of its composition may not have caused a allergic reaction, and would have neutralised the venom. 

Bob is now dead, the papers have a field day, and the RSPCA push through legislation that bans DWA in private collections because of the danger. 

All because bob don't like "Latin" (bi nominal taxonomic) names.

Its and extream example, but because the owner tells the council what species to add, it COULD happen.


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

And just to prove the species are confusable
_*viridis*_








*angusticeps*


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

now dan heres where it gets real interesting, that first one does not look like a viridis to me, i have 3 viridis and 2 angusticeps lol sorry to use scientific, lol but they are much more different than your pics,


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

FROM WHAT I HAVE READ

Apparently that is the species. Viridis from the west tend to have black bands around each scale, or indeed a gap of skin between the scales, but more central specimins tend to lack this trait while still having the scale count of the species. 

This is all book knowledge since i have never seen an anusticeps in person and viridis i have only seen through glass and partially hidden. 

And the species in the pictures are apparently confirmed.


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - A few venomous snaps taken today

heres a pic of my viridis angi took, see what i mean


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

well have a look at my viridis and tell me what u think dan


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Most deffinatly very differnt, with the black outlines i mentioned. 

Do you have any agnusticeps pictures for comparison. 

Have you seen and viridis lacking the outlines. 

Obviously i will concede to greater knowledge (and first hand of course).


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

leptophis said:


> well have a look at my viridis and tell me what u think dan


to just go slightly off topic, that mamba looks awesome


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## RMG (Jun 10, 2007)

There's definitely a difference between viridis and angusticeps in regards to scalation and also at molecular level (mt and nuclear DNA)..
depending on colouration alone is where its gets confusing apart from the two extremes where they're obviously not the same speices as both exhibit phenotypic plasticity...although there has been suggestions that some populations of the easterns may possibly be a separate species or at least subspecies..
I've no idea who's doing this work or where it was sourced..just heard it through the grapevine

there could be something to it as they have huge range


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Hey Rob, good to see you here. 

Any info on the venoms because i thought being so simlar you could use both AV's on either, yet my sources show that the above information is correct. 

Cheers
Dan


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

havent got any more knowledgte than you dan, but mine really are different, equally i have two angusticeps which are different in colour but head shape is similar,


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

Im sure you have, just being modest. 



Either way it is feesable that a simlar mistake could take place should the buyer neglect taxonomic names. 


Do you have a list of avalable venomous at the moment please Pete?


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

just to make it easier Ive posted our pics on here
One of Pete's D.viridis









one of Pete's D.angusticeps


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## RMG (Jun 10, 2007)

they've got a different venom component mix (neurotoxins) (there are tons of scientific papers on these..just google mamba venom and check scholarly articles) which can display similar clinical sympthoms..
like in all venom chemistry a variety of different components can have similar effects locally and systemically but their treatment can require different procedures..as is seen with the green mamba species..different antivenoms are required for each species


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