# What to pair with a shtct



## puffthebeardeddragon

Next year Im planning to breed my shtct male but I dont know what morph to pair him with.

I have no clue what outcome I want just wondering what other morph you think i should pair him with and the percentage of the outcome etc.

Many thanks, Puff.


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## wheaty5

Well the obvious is another SHTCT, or even better a SHTCTB (super hypo tangerine carrot tail baldy).


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## puffthebeardeddragon

That is an option but Im looking for something different to shtct (even though i love them :flrt


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## K.J.Geckos

if your wanting something different then try an enigma with a shct or something like a tug snow if you have the pennys to spend!


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## puffthebeardeddragon

I should have up to about £100 to spend because im mdoing this next year. Any enigmas/tug snows for that price?


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## K.J.Geckos

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> I should have up to about £100 to spend because im mdoing this next year. Any enigmas/tug snows for that price?


you can get them for that price.enigmas go for about £70 an you could maybe get a tug if you stick a bit more to it.if you go to a reptile show its your best bet but if not some shops are selling enigmas for £70ish now.


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## sam12345

It depends how quickly you want results.
Enigma, Mack Snow, Super Snow, TUG Snow or another SH will give you instant "morph" results.
Where as anything ressesive ie. Albino will give you hets (could be a variety of normals,hypos or SH's) in the first gen but with the opportunity of producing double mutations such as sunglows (hypo albino).

IMO if you are looking at TUG Snows go for a cheap low grade one because you will wash the white out by pairing it to a SH anyway, so there is no point in spending extra money for a better quality one just to take steps back.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

Hi TS Geckos, just had a look on your sight and saw the BEAUTIFUL female sunglow, what would my shtct and her produce? Ive got months to think about it but im just widening my options


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## gazz

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> Hi TS Geckos, just had a look on your sight and saw the BEAUTIFUL female sunglow, what would my shtct and her produce? Ive got months to think about it but im just widening my options


A sunglow is a Albino super hypo tangerine.

[1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .

25%Normal HET Albino.
50%[1c]Hypo of type HET Albino.
25%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.

Offspring will be influanced by tangerine.
----
[1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [2C]Super hypo tangerine = .

50%[1c]Hypo of type HET Albino.
50%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.

Offspring will be influanced by tangerine.
----
[1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .

100%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.

Offspring will be influanced by tangerine.


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## gazz

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> Next year Im planning to breed my shtct male but I dont know what morph to pair him with.
> 
> I have no clue what outcome I want just wondering what other morph you think i should pair him with and the percentage of the outcome etc.
> 
> Many thanks, Puff.


Wilt hypo being dominant you'll always get hypo type offspring.But any thing carrying hypo would be good.Best to breed to a super hypo is another super hypo type.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

gazz said:


> A sunglow is a Albino super hypo tangerine.
> 
> [1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .
> 
> 25%Normal HET Albino.
> 50%[1c]Hypo of type HET Albino.
> 25%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.
> 
> Offspring will be influanced by tangerine.
> ----
> [1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [2C]Super hypo tangerine = .
> 
> 50%[1c]Hypo of type HET Albino.
> 50%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.
> 
> Offspring will be influanced by tangerine.
> ----
> [1C]Albino super hypo tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .
> 
> 100%[2C]Hypo of type HET Albino.


 I dont fully understand genetics but ill recieve normals het albinos, hypo sunglow albino and hypo tangerine albinos?


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## gazz

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> I dont fully understand genetics but ill recieve normals het albinos, hypo sunglow albino and hypo tangerine albinos?


In a nut shell.

If you breed a sunglow to a SHTCTB.

Worst case you'll get Normals HET Albino and hypo's HET Albino and super hypo's HET Albino.

Best case you'll get hypo's HET Albino and super hypo's HET Albino.


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## meatgecko

I'd pair it with a Mack snow myself. I'm not sure what you'd get though


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## gazz

meatgecko said:


> I'd pair it with a Mack snow myself. I'm not sure what you'd get though


[1C]Super hypo X Snow = .

Normal.
Snow.
[1C]Hypo of type.
[1C]Hypo snow of type.
----
[2C]Super hypo X Snow = .

[1C]Hypo of type.
[1C]Hypo snow of type.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

Im glad your helping gazz as im learning a lot but when you answer can you also put just the names at the bottom so aswell as saying percentage and all that 1c and 2c stuff can you put percentage and name at the bottom please, i really dont understand genetics :bash:


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## K.J.Geckos

meatgecko said:


> I'd pair it with a Mack snow myself. I'm not sure what you'd get though


mainly hypos i think?macks co dom so wouldnt be that exciting really.i neally said that but with the co dom.thats why i said tugs as they are dominant so would be more interesting.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

also, what about a shtct and a tug snow?


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## K.J.Geckos

when you say you want something interesting what are you meaning?something you havent got or something different?different takes years but is great if your wanting a nice little challenge.you could breed with another shtct and keep breeding an you may get sunglows out of it but im sure if you bred a tug ,wouldn't you get so many supers,so many macks and something like those creamicle thingys???


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## gazz

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> also, what about a shtct and a tug snow?


Well Mack snow is codominant.TUG snow is dominant.

So.

[1C]Super hypo X [1C]Snow = .

Normal.
[1C]Snow.
[1C]Hypo type.
[1C]Hypo snow of type.
----
[2C]Super hypo X [1C]Snow = .

[1C]Hypo type.
[1C]Hypo snow of type.
----
[1C]Super hypo X [2C]Snow = .

[1C]Snow.
[1C]Hypo snow of type.
----
[2C]Super hypo X [2C]Snow = .

[1C]Hypo snow of type.


In dominant traits.

[1C]-1 Copy=(Heterozygous) Means it's carrying one copy of the dominant gene.
[2C]-2 Copy=(Homozygous) Means it's carrying two copys of the dominant gene.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

Ok, how much do tug snows usually cost from breeders?


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## meatgecko

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> mainly hypos i think?macks co dom so wouldnt be that exciting really.i neally said that but with the co dom.thats why i said tugs as they are dominant so would be more interesting.


you'd get a few but you also stand a chance of getting some kind of snow-hypo. Not sure what they would look like... hmm


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## gazz

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> Ok, how much do tug snows usually cost from breeders?


Here's one a [TUG]False eclipse snow enigma jungle HET Talbino,Balbino.
Crystal Palace Reptiles


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## K.J.Geckos

hmmm just out of interest i wonder what a tug and a enigma would be?im thinking really really white!or would the 2 dominant genes completely mess it up?


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> hmmm just out of interest i wonder what a tug and a enigma would be?im thinking really really white!or would the 2 dominant genes completely mess it up?


This in the link is TUG snow enigma.
Crystal Palace Reptiles


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## puffthebeardeddragon

when ive got the money ill try and buy the sunglow from tsgeckos, shes beautiful :flrt:


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> This in the link is TUG snow enigma.
> Crystal Palace Reptiles


that just takes me to the red eyed enigma x phantom?how is that a tug and a enigma.i thought phantom were just a sunglow tug snow???well according to wiki?


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> that just takes me to the red eyed enigma x phantom?how is that a tug and a enigma.i thought phantom were just a sunglow tug snow???well according to wiki?


Coz he's only stated what the parent was.Not what the morph is.And a (Red eyed enigma X Phantom).That a Balbino enigma X Talbino enigma results in this offspring that is a TUG snow enigma HET Talbino,Balbino.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

also, i notice the sunglow on tsgeckos` website is het for 50% raptor, would this change the outcome of the babies?


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## K.J.Geckos

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> also, i notice the sunglow on tsgeckos` website is het fopr 50% raptor, would this change the outcome of the babies?


well they wouldnt be het for raptor.they would be het for eclipse and talbino i think.but if you bred that to a shct i think you would just get shct unless you bred the offspring back futher down the line or your shct was het for eclipse or talbino.


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> Coz he's only stated what the parent was.Not what the morph is.And a (Red eyed enigma X Phantom).That a Balbino enigma X Talbino enigma results in this offspring that is a TUG snow enigma HET Talbino,Balbino.


ah i get you now.it didnt make sence before to me.


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> ah i get you now.it didnt make sence before to me.


Sorry enigma got stuck in my head just need to correct what i wrote:blush:.

Coz he's only stated what the parent was.Not what the morph is.And a (Red eyed enigma X Phantom).That a Balbino enigma X Talbino TUG snow results in this offspring that is a TUG snow enigma HET Talbino,Balbino.


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> Sorry enigma got stuck in my head just need to correct what i wrote:blush:.
> 
> Coz he's only stated what the parent was.Not what the morph is.And a (Red eyed enigma X Phantom).That a Balbino enigma X Talbino TUG snow results in this offspring that is a TUG snow enigma HET Talbino,Balbino.


omg gazz the day came when you needed to correct yourself in gentics!!!! nooooo! lol 

and i take it although its not expressed is the sunglow still in there or does the albino throw it out of the works altogether?


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## puffthebeardeddragon

so if i bred my shtct to a sunglow het 50% raptor the only outcome would be shtct? i know it must be really annoying for you guys to keep answering my questions but i need to know


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> omg gazz the day came when you needed to correct yourself in gentics!!!! nooooo! lol
> 
> and i take it although its not expressed is the sunglow still in there or does the albino throw it out of the works altogether?


Well know what i was typing in terms of combo and result.But i just wrote enigma in stead of TUG snow for some reason.

No TUG sell both Talbino TUG snow AND Talbino TUG super hypo's as Phentoms.For some reasom TUG dosen't ID between the two.

Personally i refer to Talbino TUG snow as phantoms.
And i refer to Talbino TUG super hypo's as Faded phantoms.


See these are phantom ????.They are clearly differant strains lot not even hypo type.









These are also phantoms ??.


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## K.J.Geckos

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> so if i bred my shtct to a sunglow het 50% raptor the only outcome would be shtct? i know it must be really annoying for you guys to keep answering my questions but i need to know


basicly yes.its not anoying i was like this about 2 weeks ago so dont worry lol.basicly there is no such thing as het raptor or aptor.the only raptor there is is a elipse/talbino,pattenless reverse stripe.

IF your shct was het for talbino you would get talbinos but otherwise i think its just shct like what you have.you would get some really bright ones off a sunglow x shct though i would of thought.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

ok. im just looking to breed my shtct with a different morph to produce lots of different babies. i know i sound petty but i just want some different morphs, not rare just something a bit different.


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## K.J.Geckos

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> ok. im just looking to breed my shtct with a different morph to produce lots of different babies. i know i sound petty but i just want some different morphs, not rare just something a bit different.


nah im exactly the same to be honest.im sick of all the "normal" morphs.sadly though unless your wanting to take years doing it then its not going to happen.if you want a quick fix,i would go with the enigma myself as i think thats your best option.also with enigma being dominant you can breed it with anything else futher along the line so it could open up a few more projects to you.you could do the tug but as always you will have to pay before you get results.there isnt a lot you can put with shct as its such a unique morph of its own right really.


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## K.J.Geckos

gazz said:


> Well know what i was typing in terms of combo and result.But i just wrote enigma in stead of TUG snow for some reason.
> 
> No TUG sell both Talbino TUG snow AND Talbino TUG super hypo's as Phentoms.For some reasom TUG dosen't ID between the two.
> 
> Personally i refer to Talbino TUG snow as phantoms.
> And i refer to Talbino TUG super hypo's as Faded phantoms.
> 
> 
> See these are phantom ????.They are clearly differant strains lot not even hypo type.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are also phantoms ??.


thats quite a good example but also quite worrying as i know that website well:whistling2:


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## puffthebeardeddragon

thing is though enigmas are really expensive and i really like tsgeckos sunglow so i think ill buy her : victory:


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## gazz

nuttyaboutgeckos said:


> thats quite a good example but also quite worrying as i know that website well:whistling2:


That'a why i try to avoid trade names.I prefer to say what i see.Coz basically it's esayer and also you see the genetic make up of the leo in question.

[TUG]Talbino snow.








[TUG]Talbino snow tangerine.









[TUG]Talbino hypo snow.









[TUG]Talbino hypo snow tangerine.









And TUG sell's all these as phantom.And a phantom is surpose to be a [TUG]Snow Sunglow-aka-[TUG]Talbino super hypo snow tangerine.And really i've yet to see one. 

So i ask you what is a phantom??.


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## K.J.Geckos

exactly its suposed to be to be [TUG]Snow Sunglow-aka-[TUG]Talbino super hypo snow tangerine but it looks nothing like you would expect it to really.i think its these stupid trade names again.its a classic example like the one we had the other night too.i mean today we were looking at black hole geckos.im what a stupid name.thats like calling a dog barry when your selling him.why dont people just describe what they have bred an the whole world is a little bit more clearer!


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## K.J.Geckos

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> thing is though enigmas are really expensive and i really like tsgeckos sunglow so i think ill buy her : victory:


crystal palace reptiles sell enigmas for £69.95! and they courier also!:whistling2:


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## puffthebeardeddragon

oooooo :gasp: what would that produce?


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## meatgecko

I would imagine some kind of hypo enigma. It might prove intresting, try it you have nothing to lose!


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## puffthebeardeddragon

would that produce tangerine enigmas? i might just buy the enigma to see what offspring i get :2thumb:


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## puffthebeardeddragon

anyone?


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## MrMike

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> would that produce tangerine enigmas? i might just buy the enigma to see what offspring i get :2thumb:


Tangerine enigmas are a combination of tangerine (selective bred trait) and Enigma (dominant single mutation).

Crossing a Normal enigma with a SHTCT will give some enigma offspring with tangerine influence. It is a matter of chance how much tangerine comes through really. Best bet, if you want to go the enigma route, and want to have tangerine offspring, buy a tangerine enigma


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## puffthebeardeddragon

how about a super or normal mack snow? i really dont know anything about genetics so :bash:


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## sam12345

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> how about a super or normal mack snow? i really dont know anything about genetics so :bash:


Its kind of back tracking in my eyes, unless you are going for a true "creamsicle" outcome.

The idea of mack snow is for the gecko to be white backgrounded.

The idea of a SH is to be yellow or in the case of SHT to be tangerine coloured.

Putting them together kind of makes them contradict each other unless of course like i say you are going for a Mack snow Super Hypo Tangerine (creamsicle) which will take a good few years to produce.

The outcomes though would be:

Mack snow SH(1copy)
25% normal
25% snow
25% Hypo
25% Hypo snow

Mack snow SH (2copy)
50% Hypo
50% Hypo snow

Super snow x SH(1copy)
50% Mack snow
50% Mack snow hypo

Super snow x SH(2copy)
100% Hypo snow


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## puffthebeardeddragon

so apart from a shtct what would you reccomend to pair my male with?


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## sam12345

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> so apart from a shtct what would you reccomend to pair my male with?


Normal Tangerine, Hypo Tangerine, Sunglow, Enigma, Tangerine Enigma.
Anything that is bright or can be worked on.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

might have to buy your female sunglow then


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## sam12345

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> might have to buy your female sunglow then


Sorry the websites a little out of date :blush:
Both of them sunglows have gone.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

your taking the [email protected]? any female sunglows for sale?


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## sam12345

puffthebeardeddragon said:


> your taking the [email protected]? any female sunglows for sale?


Nope not at the moment.


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## puffthebeardeddragon

grrr  will just have to keep looking then


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