# Confused on corn calculator



## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Ok so for example I have a male Ghost stripe and a female normal het for blood (diffused?), stripe and amel.

I put this into corn calculator and got this:


Male: Ghost, Stripe ( Anery, Hypo, Stripe )

Female: Normal het Amel, Diffused, Stripe

Phenotype:

1 / 2 Stripe het Anery, Hypo 50% poss het. Amel, Diffused
1 / 2 Normal het Anery, Stripe, Hypo 50% poss het. Amel, Diffused
Genotype:

1 / 8 Stripe het Anery, Hypo
1 / 8 Stripe het Amel, Anery, Hypo
1 / 8 Stripe het Anery, Diffused, Hypo
1 / 8 Stripe het Amel, Anery, Diffused, Hypo
1 / 8 Normal het Anery, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Amel, Anery, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Anery, Diffused, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Amel, Anery, Diffused, Hypo, Stripe

I don't get the phenotype 1/2 or the genotype 1/8
Does it mean half will be stripe het anery and hypo but 50% will possibly be het for amel and blood and the other half will be normals het anery ....?

If so what is the 1/8 mean?

Thanks well confused


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

phenotype is what they will look like.
and the chance of each one turning out like that is per egg, not per clutch.

so each egg has a 50% chance of being stripe and 50% chance of being normal
and you will not be able to see the hets


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

genotype is what the animal is genetically.
so it breaks down the half stripes and half normals down further, to give you a list of what hets they can have.

1 / 8 Stripe het Anery, Hypo = stripe with a 1 in 8 chance of being het anery and hypo
1 / 8 Stripe het Amel, Anery, Hypo = stripe with a 1 in 8 chance of being het anery hypo and amel etc etc for the others
1 / 8 Stripe het Anery, Diffused, Hypo
1 / 8 Stripe het Amel, Anery, Diffused, Hypo
1 / 8 Normal het Anery, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Amel, Anery, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Anery, Diffused, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 8 Normal het Amel, Anery, Diffused, Hypo, Stripe


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh ok I get it now brilliant thanks heaps :2thumb:
Even better I saw her locked on to my amel so gonna calculate that :2thumb:
Thanks again


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

tis just different ways of writing the same thing, lol.

my corns wont play at all :-(


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Lol its the ONLY two of mine that are playing ball lol


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

pigglywiggly said:


> phenotype is what they will look like.
> and the chance of each one turning out like that is per egg, not per clutch.
> 
> so each egg has a 50% chance of being stripe and 50% chance of being normal
> and you will not be able to see the hets


 I always question this... whats the difference between per egg and per clutch?.
I think a certain number should show the same result, say 16 for example as thats usually used. so from 16 eggs you should get x,y and z.
so from 16 eggs, 8 should be stripe, in theory. I know it doesnt work that way. I do understand the saying, but there doesnt seem to be a great deal of difference in the terminology.. 
That all probably makes no sense to anyone else lol.. sorry


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

cornmorphs said:


> I always question this... whats the difference between per egg and per clutch?.
> I think a certain number should show the same result, say 16 for example as thats usually used. so from 16 eggs you should get x,y and z.
> so from 16 eggs, 8 should be stripe, in theory. I know it doesnt work that way. I do understand the saying, but there doesnt seem to be a great deal of difference in the terminology..
> That all probably makes no sense to anyone else lol.. sorry


There is no difference between per egg or per clutch, mate. If each egg has a 50% chance of being a stripe, then your clutch will be 50% stripes! You make perfect sense to me 





pigglywiggly said:


> genotype is what the animal is genetically.
> so it breaks down the half stripes and half normals down further, to give you a list of what hets they can have.
> 
> 1 / 8 Stripe het Anery, Hypo = stripe with a 1 in 8 chance of being het anery and hypo
> ...



That's not actually quite right.

1/8 stripe het anery, hypo means that 1 out of every 8 eggs (statistically speaking) (_or an 1/8th of your clutch, or you have an 1/8th of a chance per egg, or 12.5% chance per egg or per clutch if you prefer percentages_) will be a stripe that is definately het for anery and hypo. 
then
1/8 stripe het amel, anery, hypo means again 1 in 8 eggs will be a stripe definately het for amel, anery and hypo

etc down the list

So the genotype figures show you what genetic combinations you can get from your pairings, and the proportions of them. Of course a stripe is a stripe is a stripe to look at so you can't tell whether it is a stripe that is het for anery and hypo, or het for amel anery and hypo just by looking at it. 

That's where the phenotype figues come in. Say you produce 8 eggs and get 4 stripes and 4 normals. Look at the genotype figures. All of the snakes are carrying anery and hypo, so all the stripes are 100% het for those two genes. 2 of the stripes are carrying amel, therefore of your 4 stripes, 50% are carrying amel, so each striped snake you look at individually has a 50% chance that it is carrying that gene. Same for diffused.

Of course you could produce 8 eggs and get 8 normals or 8 stripes or any combination between, and every snake could later be proved to be carrying amel because life and statistics have little in common most of the time!:lol2:


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

cornmorphs said:


> I always question this... whats the difference between per egg and per clutch?.


The difference is subtle. 

If you flip a coin, each side has a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up heads and a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up tails. This is analogous to mating a stripe corn snake to a normal-looking het stripe corn snake. Each egg has a 50% chance of hatching a stripe and a 50% chance of hatching a normal-looking corn.

If you say that the odds per coin flip is 1/2 heads and 1/2 tails and you flip several coins, then the first coin can be heads or tails, the second can be heads or tails, the third can be heads or tails, etc.

Probability for the various results of a two-coin flip:
1/2 heads - 1/2 heads --> 1/4 heads heads
1/2 heads - 1/2 tails --> 1/4 heads tails
1/2 tails - 1/2 heads --> 1/4 tails heads
1/2 tails - 1/2 tails --> 1/4 tails tails

A two-coin flip is the equivalent of a two-egg clutch. If the odds are 1/2 heads and 1/2 tails per two-coin flip, then one coin MUST come down heads and the other coin MUST come down tails. 

Any group with an odd number is going to give major problems if odds are per group (clutch). If the odds are 1/2 heads and 1/2 tails per three-coin flip, then at least one coin MUST come half heads and half tails. This doesn't happen with either coins or corn snakes.

Go ahead and check this. Take two coins, flip both and record the results. Repeat 10 times and see if they always result in one heads and one tails.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

vetdebbie said:


> *There is no difference between per egg or per clutch, mate. If each egg has a 50% chance of being a stripe, then your clutch will be 50% stripes! You make perfect sense to me *
> 
> 
> tell me about it lol.. thanks for that





paulh said:


> The difference is subtle.
> 
> If you flip a coin, each side has a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up heads and a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up tails. This is analogous to mating a stripe corn snake to a normal-looking het stripe corn snake. Each egg has a 50% chance of hatching a stripe and a 50% chance of hatching a normal-looking corn.
> 
> ...


 Having been involved with corns for close to 20 years, and breeding for over 10 now, you;d think it would be all in the brain lol.. but I have never been one to bother too much with the technical side of it. so basically, every time someone tries to correct me, they are neither wrong nor write.
Just seems people prefer the per egg option.


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## Chromisca (Sep 28, 2010)

paulh said:


> The difference is subtle.
> 
> If you flip a coin, each side has a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up heads and a 1/2 (50%) chance of coming up tails. This is analogous to mating a stripe corn snake to a normal-looking het stripe corn snake. Each egg has a 50% chance of hatching a stripe and a 50% chance of hatching a normal-looking corn.
> 
> ...


God I love you... :flrt:

Actually, I love statistics more, but you just appealled to the massive math geek inside of me 

I don't calculate standard deviation on corn clutches... :whistling2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

vetdebbie said:


> There is no difference between per egg or per clutch, mate. If each egg has a 50% chance of being a stripe, then your clutch will be 50% stripes!


Except when it isn't, because the odds gods aren't playing nice, and the eggs don't all consult one another to make sure that the statistical probabilities are actually being played out.

For example:

Mica (Anery het Lavender Amel Stripe) X Zircon (Anery het Lavender Amel Stripe)

2008 clutch: 
16 eggs
4 Anerythristic Stripes
12 Anerythristics
Zero Anery-Lavender (despite there being a 1-in-4 chance of having one)
Zero Snow (despite the same 1-in-4 chance).

2009 clutch:
24 eggs
1 Glacier Stripe (1-in-256 chance)
2 Snow Stripe (1-in-64 chance)
2 Anerythristic Stripe
4 Anery-Lavender
8 Snow 
9 Anerythristic
Zero Anery-Lavender Stripes (despite the 1-in-16 chance)
Zero Glaciers (despite the 1-in-16 chance).

Out of 40 eggs, I didn't get the 1-in-16 Anery-Lavender stripe that I wanted.


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

you never can know.. its all about luck really.. nice when it turns out though.


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## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

Ssthisto said:


> Except when it isn't, because the odds gods aren't playing nice, and the eggs don't all consult one another to make sure that the statistical probabilities are actually being played out.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


 
That sucks! But is also why I put the bit on the end about stats and real life not being the same thing.


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## kodisbabe (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh my god well over my head again lol
:blush:


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