# begginer venomous handler



## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

heya all i am a begginer venomous handler and would like some advice
please dont just insult me for wanting to keep venomous
i want advice please e.g. books, websites, shops, places, people, courses, tanks, breeds all that kinda stuff please


0.1 Boa constrictor
1.0 mexican black king snake
0.1 fiesty false water cobra


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## Zimey (Sep 28, 2008)

Southerncopperhead said:


> heya all i am a begginer nenomous handler and would like some advice
> please dont just insult me for wanting to keep venomous
> i want advice please e.g. books, websites, shops, places, people, courses, tanks, breeds all that kinda stuff please
> 
> ...


Best bet is to make a thread up in the DWA Section


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Zimey said:


> Best bet is to make a thread up in the DWA Section


No need - I'll move this one.


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks for moving me i am new to this site.
Would just like to add i wanna keep hots, and i'm sick of being told oh don't do it, it's far to dangerous, oh your only young, inexperienced ETC.
I wanna keep them it is a passion of mine and i will do it properly.
That's why i am on here looking for all the best advice i can get.
Please don't just come on here and insult me, i want advice and will take absolutely everything in and into consideration, your advice won't just be ignored.


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## stokiereptile (Jun 21, 2011)

I heard cold blooded might be running hot handling classes just a rumour but hope its true!


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## GJUK (Feb 13, 2010)

Southerncopperhead said:


> heya all i am a begginer venomous handler and would like some advice
> please dont just insult me for wanting to keep venomous
> i want advice please e.g. books, websites, shops, places, people, courses, tanks, breeds all that kinda stuff please
> 
> ...


:no1:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Southerncopperhead said:


> Thanks for moving me i am new to this site.
> Would just like to add i wanna keep hots, and i'm sick of being told oh don't do it, it's far to dangerous, oh your only young, inexperienced ETC.
> I wanna keep them it is a passion of mine and i will do it properly.
> That's why i am on here looking for all the best advice i can get.
> Please don't just come on here and insult me, i want advice and will take absolutely everything in and into consideration, your advice won't just be ignored.


Just to add my two cents on this. at no point has anyone tried to tell you that you cannot keep venomous. all i am saying is that you can't possibly be ready for them yet. handling classes will be good, i know of at least 3 operating nationally and they are getting rave reviews but they will teach you the basics only. it takes time to learn about venomous animals. their behaviour differs greatly from from their non venomous cousins. many will strike and retract in the blink of an eye. Body language is something you need to know inside out when keeping hots. the consequences for keeping these animals at such an early point in your reptile keeping career are grave (literally) and reflect badly upon other keepers who have had the patience to study like crazy for years.

So far your experience extends to a boid, and a couple of colubrids (one of which is rear fanged admittedly) and you cant have had snakes longer than 4 or 5 months. I waited a good 8 years before i even dare keep anything truly venomous. That was 4 years ago. I started with an eyelash viper, 2 monocled cobras and 3 mangroves (which many will recall used to be on DWAL). This was a hell of a leap for me, even with many years experience dealing with grumpy reptiles (a side effect of running a rescue). I out and out pooed myself when i got my first Barons racer, and thats not going to kill you by any means. but it was a step towards keeping hots. It was twitchy, extremely badly behaved on a hook and if i'm honest, an absolute hooligan.

4 years (on and off) of venomous experience and i still feel like a beginner. I know that you have seen me work with the hots at work, i know it looks easy but rest assured it is not. I, like all hots keepers on here carry the burden of knowing that an accident can not only cost me dearly, but every single licenced keeper in the country is then put in a position. its a black mark against us.

I dont want you to get hurt, I dont want our beloved hobby put in jeopardy. I am happy to show you some handling techniques with lairy colubrids. you'll be ready one day. but it isnt now. :2thumb:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

you want courses you got them

Specialist Training Courses

Dangerous Wild Animal Assessments

Regards

Slippery


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

thankyou all for your advice and your help
it is all taken on board


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

if there anymore people wanting to give me there sensible input feel free
or anyone who wants to give me any advice


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## iLuke (Jul 14, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with going into dangerous stuff? I went straight into dangerous tarantulas after literally looking them up for no longer than half an hour to see what I was going up against and I'm fine, I think it's great that you're going into what your going into and I wish you the best of luck


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## azza23 (May 4, 2011)

try out king rats or even some of the boiga species, it'll get you used to using a hook and dealing with crazy snakes without the deadly conciquences and then when *YOU* feel ready move onto hots, just keep what your doing and gather all the info you can, good luck with it, i'd love to keep them myself oneday.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

iLuke said:


> There's nothing wrong with going into dangerous stuff? I went straight into dangerous tarantulas after literally looking them up for no longer than half an hour to see what I was going up against and I'm fine, I think it's great that you're going into what your going into and I wish you the best of luck


I think a venomous snake is somewhat different to a spider...lol.


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## iLuke (Jul 14, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> I think a venomous snake is somewhat different to a spider...lol.


You don't say. I wasn't comparing the two, I was just telling them that I went straight into the more "dangerous" tarantulas to start with. What's wrong with saying that, lol.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

iLuke said:


> You don't say. I wasn't comparing the two, I was just telling them that I went straight into the more "dangerous" tarantulas to start with. What's wrong with saying that, lol.


Because your pretty much saying it's ok to go straight into keeping venomous snakes with half an hour research, that's why. A 'hot' snake can kill you a tarantula can't.

Don't see why your telling him what you did with your spiders, if you weren't saying it's ok to jump straight into something 'dangerous'...lol


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Thankyou all again
Keep the advice coming
I have just finished reading " Begginer's guide to keeping venomous snakes" by Lenny Flank Jr
Great book and alot of education in it i have taken everything on board, it has taught me alot of stuff and alot of the categories, lil behaviour traits in certain species, and a whole lot more, great stuff
yeah i was thinking of a boiga species


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

Southerncopperhead said:


> Thankyou all again
> Keep the advice coming
> I have just finished reading " Begginer's guide to keeping venomous snakes" by Lenny Flank Jr
> Great book and alot of education in it i have taken everything on board, it has taught me alot of stuff and alot of the categories, lil behaviour traits in certain species, and a whole lot more, great stuff
> yeah i was thinking of a boiga species


Try and find someone that will be willing to mentor you. Your local council may be able to tell you if their is anyone in your county that hold's a DWA and keeps venomous snakes: victory:


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## iLuke (Jul 14, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> Try and find someone that will be willing to mentor you. Your local council may be able to tell you if their is anyone in your county that hold's a DWA and keeps venomous snakes: victory:


I was just saying what I did.. I wasn't comparing anything. And actually, if you have a reaction to the vemon you could die from a tarantula bite. It's rare, but can happen.. But I wasn't comparing anything. I was just saying it's good that they've got an interest in what they want to do and should do it with a bit of research?


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

iLuke said:


> I was just saying what I did.. I wasn't comparing anything. And actually, if you have a reaction to the vemon you could die from a tarantula bite. It's rare, but can happen.. But I wasn't comparing anything. I was just saying it's good that they've got an interest in what they want to do and should do it with a bit of research?


That may be what you meant but it's not what came across. It read like you were advocating going for DWA snakes right away in the same way that there's nothing to stop you getting a P. regalis rather than a Chile Rose as your first tarantula. 

But while a Pokie or Avic is a bit quicker than many beginner-friendly species and the venom a bit more potent, DWA snakes can kill anyone, not just somebody who has a bad reaction. The consequences of a hot snake getting loose or interacting with an inexpereinced keeper are many, many times more severe than any tarantula.

Remember novices and youngsters will read this section - and they look to more experienced keepers for ideas and quotes.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

iLuke said:


> I was just saying what I did.. I wasn't comparing anything. And actually, if you have a reaction to the vemon you could die from a tarantula bite. It's rare, but can happen.. But I wasn't comparing anything. I was just saying it's good that they've got an interest in what they want to do and should do it with a bit of research?


Well from the way you wrote it looked as if you were saying it's fine to get a venomous snake with a little bit of research. Yeah that's the point with a T is rare, but with a venomous snake it can kill you without an allergic reaction. It takes more than half an hour of research to be fully prepared.


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## fiona.muirhowie (Sep 25, 2010)

*Dwa*

Hello all,

While no DWA holder will try and put someone off keeping hots, they may say that more experience is needed and rightly so, lets not forget this animals can kill u if you make a mistake.
Lets not forget one of the UK's most experienced keepers died this year.

I have been brought up always being around reptiles so while i have a lot of experience in general and to a certain extent with native adders itis only recently i have started getting experience with more exotic animals.

You also need to think about why do you want to hold a dwa licence? Think of the other people in yout household.
It should never be because its good to show off to your mates.
It should always be for conservation and breeding programs.
Think about the basic rules such as amount of space you have to work with, what you want to keep, good practice is always 2 handlers, one main, one back up. With some species 2 main plus a back up.

Read up, check.out your local goverment website, speak to them about their requirments, ready defras website.
Do as much research as you can. Contact some rescue places see if u can get a placement working with bigger aggressive animals, improve your handling and reaction times, plus learning to keep calm!

I hope it wotks out but never rush! This is your live on the line


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Heya fiona thankyou for the well worded advice, it has all been taken in
I just want to tell all the people loooking through my thread that i don't hope to do all this overnight.
I am hoping to expand my collection over a few years minimum, and most of that is spending time hand crafting my vivs, and making sure they are secure and just right for the type of snakes i will be keeping in them.
I am not doing this to act cool, or look macho, if i wanted to do that i would go to the gym and get buff.
I wanna keep them as they fasinate me, i am passionate about them, and i would hope to breed them all one day soon, even milk them for medical research.
I understand that by looking after these animals, i am putting my life on the line but i am going to go about this the right way.
I am not going to jump into this heavy headed, as then i would die and give all DWA keepers a bad name and that's the last thing i wanna do, aswell as put others at risk.
I WILL do this properly and i will take all advice in and use it as and when it is needed.

thankyou all again thankyou all so much


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

iLuke said:


> There's nothing wrong with going into dangerous stuff? I went straight into dangerous tarantulas after literally looking them up for no longer than half an hour to see what I was going up against and I'm fine, I think it's great that you're going into what your going into and I wish you the best of luck


Oh no he Ditn't :bash:


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Moshpitviper lol :bash:
:whip:


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

hiya
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This one day intensive training course is designed specifically for *animal licensing officers* and those *individuals who are thinking of applying for their Dangerous Wild Animals (DWA) licence*. 

Areas covered will include:

*Types of keepers*
*Shift box*
*Venom *
*Feeding*
*Accommodation requirements*
*Equipment*
*Handling / Tubing*
*Protocol*
*Pinning, hook and tailing*


*Course fee: £**100 + VAT per delegate *and includes:

· Morning & afternoon tea, coffee and biscuits 
· Buffet lunch
· An SAI Global Certificate of Training (signed by Mark Amey)
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‘MEET THE ANIMALS’ EXPERIENCE
*****Please note this course is only open to those over 21 years old.*

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Places on the course can be pre-booked by contacting Rachel Woodwards directly to obtain availability. We look forward to hearing from you and hope that you consider SAI Global for any training needs you have planned for 2011.
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Assurance (UK)
*SAI Global*
Winterhill House, Snowdon Drive, Milton Keynes, MK6 1AX
Phone: +44 (0)1908 249934Mob: +44 (0)7772 943438Fax: +44 (0)1908 249965
[email protected] 
www.saiglobal.com/assurance



*DWA Training Course*
Delivered by Mark Amey
Mark Amey has been involved in delivering training for local authorities for a number of years. He is part of the Herts, Beds & Bucks DWA licencing team and has a large collection of DWA licenced species himself, consisting of 15 invertebrates, 25 snakes, 3 crocodilians and 1 lizard. ​


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## fiona.muirhowie (Sep 25, 2010)

*Hots*

a few more points i have thought of that you may wish to think on.

I personally wouldn't have DWA at home for the simple reason of not having a second handler within my household. That is not to say all people follow this guide, but you really need to think on the amount of working room, for example most people have an animal room as the smallest spare room in the house, would this give you enough workable space? 
You need to think about what animals you wish to keep and why, you will be asked this on your DWA application, you also need to look into insurance. find the best company for you, you again will need to know how many and what animals.

Having not looked into DWA on a private address there are some questions i can not answer but you will need to look into. Are you in rented house / flat or do you own it, if is rented can you apply for a DWA? would your landlord be happy for you to have DWA in their property.
If you are still living with parents are they happy for you to apply for a licence? they would need to fully understand procedures, this is a whole house decision in my view - all members need to know how to deal with the animals and be prepare to.

always remember that these animals can kill, and Anti venom does not guarantee survival and one mistake could end in disfigurement or death.

from what i know the basic requirements are:
DWA licence
insurance
annual vet and council inspection - or access whenever they request
adequate enclosures hat have been approved by inspectors to minimize danger to public and others within he house
adequate knowledge on what you want to keep
a vet willing to treat your collection
a fire safety report - plus all emergency services will have to be notified of exactly what is in your collection.

(credit goes to shropshire exotics for these)
you also need to think of safety features of your venomous room, suggestions are:
make it impossible for the animal to get to the outside world
clear signs, externally, plus one at eye level and one closer to the ground, you need to think of firefighters for example who maybe crawling along the ground
light switches outside the room
a way of viewing the room form the outside
somewhere to store equipment outside the room
a door sweep for bottom of the door
fire extinguisher on the inside and outside of the room
torch
bite protocol, emergency numbers, first aid kit (low to the ground)
phone close to hand
panic button - low to ground
handling equipment with in arms length
furniture must be kept to a minimum
if there is a sink - make sure the is no escape points
All windows and vents should be meshed - all windows should have bars
Fire and burglary alarms, ideally ones that auto dial out
the room must be locked at all times you are not present within the room
a padlock or deadbolt should be fitted
a list of rules - no one enter unattended, don't tap glass, don't place fingers over vents
all cabling tidy, fire hazard and also easy to climb for snakes
safety zone around viv
plenty of floor space

this is not a complete list!!

no one can offer you an instruction manual on how it should be done, we can only offer what we have learnt or what works for us.
i would not say i have any where near enough experience to mentor or teach on handling or keeping and i say that after my whole life of being around reptiles.

ultimately if you go into DWA then it is you as a keepers responsibly to do your research and sort out your own safety and handling.
i'm sure that a council / vet would not issue a Licence if they thought the keeper was not suitable and i hope that shops wouldn't supply someone they did no have confidence in.


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## pythonpants1970 (Apr 30, 2009)

*dwa-the long road*

there are quite simply no short cuts to experience and rightly so, dwa and gaining experience with these animals is always emotive and will always provoke a reaction-however that will not stop people keeping hots be it with dwa/psl or otherwise-everyone has to start somewhere and progress at a rate which is right for the individual and the animals concerned as well as the safety of those around you, too much focus is put upon the actual animals and species that individuals wish to keep whereas handling techinques,cage design,equipment usage and general husbandry can all be researched in detail a long way of actually working with a 'hot' species there are no 'ideal' or beginners snakes as many people have stated in previous threads however you could choose a non venomous species such as a fwc,mangrove,radiated ratsnake,and angry bullsnake/beauty snake and take a completely hands off approach to its keeping where you never touch the actual animal with anything apart from an appropriate hook(s) their vivs are opened and closed with a hook, vivs are cleaned with gentle grabbers in terms of removing shed skins etc,you could practice pinning techniques and the use of restraining tubes etc untill you where happy to progress-but we are still talking years and not months in terms of the level of experience you need to gain and you will need to have had many years of keeping non-venomous snakes successfully before making the change to venomous-please dont interpret peoples feed back on here as negative its just that dwa requires experience and thats just how it is!-small steady steps, watch,listen,observe, over and over again-you will find some one to mentor you but your mentor will have an obligation to the welfare of the animals involved,themselves and you (probably in that order!) and they whoever they maybe will not entertain someone who is not already all over non venomous and is ready to make the step up-honestly the people on this thread have only your welfare in mind and that of like minded individuals who will read this thread..........please listen to them!!!!


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

thankyou fiona and python pants
both greatly appreciated i know no one is being negative and i now properly un derstand truely how long the road is ti keeping hots
i am studying hard and will continue to
and i will make my decisions sensibly with everyone (including the snakes) in mind
hopefully i will find a mentor and i am working on taking a training course just for extra safety and training
i do know that just because i will have taken a course i am no god at handling them i am fully aware i do laready know
i am quiet smart and am going a ton of research when possible
all advice is taken in and absorbed
truely thankful to you all :smile:


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Another point for you to consider is the enclosure.

Try not to make a hole for any cables too large where the animal can escape, or in more extreme cases around the heat guard where an animal can get in and fry as this can be very expensive.:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:

wned8:


Some times I just cant help myself.


:welcomerfuk:

Alex.


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Thankyou AJ76 for the welcome :whistling2:
i am being very careful on holes for cables and vents
i might not even have vents, maybe just a series of very small holes in the shape of a vent, then there no risk of escape in any way no matter what as only way in or out will be through the double locked doors :2thumb:
what do you all think of that idea??


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I think you need vents.


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## fiona.muirhowie (Sep 25, 2010)

As i put in a previous post all vents should be meshed, you will need vents.

Again before putting too much thought in to how and why on ur dwau need more experience on non dwa.
I would put ur effort in there first. Asian rats would be a good place to start.
Once you have built up your over all knowledge, had some experience with breeding, made a lot of mistakrs along them way, learnt from them, u may even then deside dwa are not for you.
Having good dwa knowledge is good, but you need to build up to it, get your overall knowledge concentrated on first.


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## zombiezappa (Sep 15, 2011)

you bad boy AJ76 lol...I see where you are coming from though... what about a small amount of trunking from the light guard to the backof the viv, or is that overkill?? Mr Mingard


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## fiona.muirhowie (Sep 25, 2010)

zombiezappa said:


> you bad boy AJ76 lol...I see where you are coming from though... what about a small amount of trunking from the light guard to the backof the viv, or is that overkill?? Mr Mingard


Sounds like a very good idea!

There are so many more precautions that need to be taken, so many more things to consider with dwa animals.
Thats why overall experience is so important. For example every issue you have with non dwa, think how u are dealing with it, and how u need to do the same task with dwa, they will be very diffrent.
The overall planning of the enclosures and the animal room is a headache all of its own, then having all the correct equipment, you cant be in a stituation wishing u have a peice of handling equipment as it could result in a fatal error. U need to think through as many situations as you can, this is without even thinking what animals u wish to keep and the issues they bring


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

i dunno about aisan rats i saw a watersnake the other day and that thing its the most evil thing ive ever seen looks like a cotton mouth but with even more temper and short and stockey doesnt do well on a hook imo these are ideal to teach u how to deal with vipers


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Southerncopperhead said:


> Thankyou AJ76 for the welcome :whistling2:
> i am being very careful on holes for cables and vents
> i might not even have vents, maybe just a series of very small holes in the shape of a vent, then there no risk of escape in any way no matter what as only way in or out will be through the double locked doors :2thumb:
> what do you all think of that idea??


 
I think by the time you are ready to purchase your first hot (and I am not refering to the heat guard thing again here :whistling2 there will be some sort of machine that will build things from the thoughts of our minds from candyfloss and chocolate monkeys and it will look super mate..... just super.

All joking aside here fella, let me put my wise old man hat on here ( believe it or not I do own one)

I have seen you on numerous occaisions in my shop. Your enthusiasm is incredible,but to a lot of people, your enthusiasm to keep hots is a bit too overwhelming, especially given your experience in reptile keeping all together. 

Like myself and _mashed tit diaper _have explained to you on many occaisons is that we would like to see your enthusiasm for keeping lower risk snakes first. As I am sure that once you have demonstrated your skills with them (and you do have some good animals to start with) then we can have more "venom talk" without the need for myself and him to cringe at the thought of you already planning how you are going to build you hot enclosures.

Is what I have written harsh?? Maybe, but this is reality on a very large shi:censor:y stick mate, a stick that is not only covered in sh:censor:it but in a substance much more leathal 


*PLEASE NOTE,*

_I am not including what me and Dave pass into the shop lav in this as even chuck norris would struggle going in there after us_ :devil:


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

Not harsh at all AJ76 not harsh at all mate,
i know what you are saying but im not going to use the enclosures for just hots there gonna be used for non hots but gonna build them for hots, so when i do get them i haven't gotta fart ass around with doing them up again and what not.
so if there built already then i can just chuck the snakes in as and when i get them
all advice taken with a pinch of salt, harsh sounding or not i have to take it in as it is what i expected.
the response was a lil different on here to what i expected and i respect all of you for that.
i am continuing my research as i am anyway as can never do to much of that.
Thankyou all for your advice keep it coming :smile:

And AJ76 let's not get onto the subject of what you and dave drop in the work lav
wouldn't wanna clean it up after either of you lol


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Southerncopperhead said:


> Not harsh at all AJ76 not harsh at all mate,
> i know what you are saying but im not going to use the enclosures for just hots there gonna be used for non hots but gonna build them for hots, so when i do get them i haven't gotta fart ass around with doing them up again and what not.
> so if there built already then i can just chuck the snakes in as and when i get them
> all advice taken with a pinch of salt, harsh sounding or not i have to take it in as it is what i expected.
> ...


 
It is the simple things that will make people take you seriously. Just re-read the parts of your posts I have highlighted in red.

And there is no nee to call me AJ76 mate, Alex will do just fine :notworthy:


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## pythonpants1970 (Apr 30, 2009)

*vivs and set ups*

when approaching the captive requirements of any snake or any other animal try not to generalise in terms of size and shape of vivarium, set your mind on the species you want to keep venomous or not and build an enviroment suited to that specimen think about adult size, its lifestyle in terms of being terrestrial/arboreal/burrowing(fossorial) and whether the animal is going to require a drier enviroment or a higher level of humidity as and when you feel you are ready to pursue a license you will have a full inspection from a vet who will have nothing but your species welfare in mind and will have no hesitation in sending you back to square one when it comes to enviroment and housing so setting up vivariums for species that you maybe planning to keep in 10 years time will be a waste of your time and money, you will need to be able to prove that you have had a track record of keeping many species of non-venomous snakes successfully and have a complete understanding and a valid reason for wanting to keep hots, you will probably be interviewed or at least questioned in terms of your ability and approach to venomous snake keeping and to have vivariums that you set up 10 years ago ready for you to "chuck" your new hots in will have an inspecting e.h.o. or vet heading for the door even before they have seen your animal room, believe me when pursuing dwa there is so much to consider which has nothing to do with the husbandry of your animals-there is room design and access,fire extinguisher location, a trained second handler,door and vivarium signage, how are your local emergency services going to be informed or aware that your address contains these reptiles? think about your lifestyle will your home be rented??-very little chance of getting dwa on a rented property do you plan to have children? how will a partner feel about becoming involved with being around hots-small questions with big answers, pursuing dwa in most parts of the uk is very difficult and as i have stated before rightly so, you will have to be able to prove experience exstensively with non-venomous or species of snake which are not currently covered by d.w.a, there are some truly fantastic species out there to work with which will steadily prepare you for hots-madagascan hognose,barons racers,fwc's,mangroves,vine snakes,kukuri snakes,egg eaters,gtp's ornate flying snakes, all species which will stretch your snake craft and you will need to be able to talk through situations however hypothetical and unlikely with an inspector/vet and demonstrate your competence in keeping these animals-books,google,mates down the pub,forums etc are all great sources of information most of the time however there comes a time when only experience counts and unfortunatly you cannot hit that fast forward button-and why would you want to?? ive loved keeping and still do love keeping non venomous snakes i understand your wish to progress but you dont see many ferraris with l plates on do you!! slow down, enjoy your hobby, learn from other peoples mistakes and keep listening and when your mentor/issuing e.h.o./vet thinks your ready-you will be


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Here's my advice: quit wasting your time on this incredibly boring thread, that has quite possibly wasted heaps of your valuable time and taught you hardly any of the 'all-important' basics, and get yourself booked on the quoted course that Mark runs.

Mark's a wealth of knowledge and will point you in the right direction - he's been keeping venomous for many years. There's no online theory test for handling venomous snakes, you need practical guidance.

Cheers,

Dave








fardilis said:


> hiya
> mark amey runs a dwa training corse
> 
> *DWA Training course*
> ...


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

pythondave82 said:


> Here's my advice: quit wasting your time on this incredibly boring thread, that has quite possibly wasted heaps of your valuable time and taught you hardly any of the 'all-important' basics, and get yourself booked on the quoted course that Mark runs.
> 
> Mark's a wealth of knowledge and will point you in the right direction - he's been keeping venomous for many years. There's no online theory test for handling venomous snakes, you need practical guidance.
> 
> ...


Whilst i agree with that. Mark was the first person i ever met with hots. and was somewhat instrumental in my wanting to keep them. MANY years ago. the difficult part is the OP is not actually old enough to attend the course. But i do agree. a course such as this or others around the country would be invaluable.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Moshpitviper said:


> Whilst i agree with that. Mark was the first person i ever met with hots. and was somewhat instrumental in my wanting to keep them. MANY years ago. the difficult part is the OP is not actually old enough to attend the course. But i do agree. a course such as this or others around the country would be invaluable.


Admittedly I skipped much of the text (I was having difficulty breathing ;-)).

I'd still contact him anyway. Indeed he doesn't suffer fools gladly!

Cheers,

Dave


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

iLuke said:


> There's nothing wrong with going into dangerous stuff? I went straight into dangerous tarantulas after literally looking them up for no longer than half an hour to see what I was going up against and I'm fine, I think it's great that you're going into what your going into and I wish you the best of luck


Hmm....not quite in the same ball park really....even the worst T bite will not be anywhere near as dangerous as the least venomous snake bite. Advice, listen to folks who ACTUALLY keep venomous snakes. Don't be a know it all Google expert, try and make the effort to meet some keepers and get to know them, someone who puts the time and effort in will be better received than just another "I want to keep hots" forum poster. There are no snakes that will serve as "starters" even with the most pissed off ratsnake, you know you won't die if you get bitten, and all the prep in the world won't really prepare you for the first time you deal with a hot on your own. Read, listen and learn.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

pythondave82 said:


> Admittedly I skipped much of the text* (I was having difficulty breathing ;-)).*
> 
> I'd still contact him anyway. Indeed he doesn't suffer fools gladly!
> 
> ...


I understand my sense of humour is flawless sometimes, sorry to have caused your breathing issues..........:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

pythondave82 said:


> Admittedly I skipped much of the text (I was having difficulty breathing ;-)).
> 
> I'd still contact him anyway. Indeed he doesn't suffer fools gladly!
> 
> ...


You must admit, that is part of his charm :whistling2:


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

yeah well if you had actually read the beggining i asked for species, books, mentors, places, people, websites.
i am completely aware that keeping hots isn't advised, people don't want more people keeping them, there dangerous and a threat to society if exposed to.
but i want to make it clear to everyone on this thread that i'm not just jumping into this head first i have already said that.
i am already planning on buying a couple of non venomous, and keeping them for a couple of years before i start keeping venomous.
i know for a fact that i am no where near ready to keep them yet
but i only came on here for advice, resources and possibly someone to say they will mentor me for as long as they want to.


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

I like your enthusiasm cobber and if you hang onto it I'm sure oneday you'll fullfill your dream of keeping hots.
I think the majority of people replying see your enthusiasm as genuine, but as keepers, are skeptical of people wanting to jump in head first, it's all to common that many of them get over it within 6 months or so and many would be hots keepers, take a venomous keepers cautious approach too personally.
Keeping vens/hots is a generalization as they are all different, require different skills and different husbandry.
While I deal with Browns and Tigers fairly regularly (far from an expert though) I know little of Vipers and quite frankly the idea of attempting to deal with a king cobra or such would have me shitting bricks, While someone who deals with Kings might find himself in a pickle with a cute little Tiger.
If your not old enough to do a course try and find alternatives, If you have a local dealer, breeder, zoo or reptile centre ETC volunteer with their non venomous, cleaning enclosures or something, this may give you an opportunity to observe them with their vens. If you can show someone that your responsible and eager to learn while still having the maturity to exercise restraint (knowing and understanding your limitations) you may be lucky enough to find someone willing to impart their knowledge and skills.
Reading material is everywhere, you will be able to find more by searching the library and online than by asking forum members to give you info. Put the effort into seeking out practical experience and opportunity to observe.


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## Southerncopperhead (Oct 5, 2011)

I completely understand why all other hot keepers won't just tell me to go into it,
mainly because if i get bitten it will effect there reputation aswell as mine, and it will give the government more ammo against hot keepers.
I am not just sitting here waiting i am down the library, reading books, searching the web, talking to as many people as possible, trying to get a mentor
but people take my enthusiasm as i am just a lil kid tring to use this as a toy project, and they think i am not genuine.
I can promise everyone on here that i am going to do this properly, and do whatever it takes to keep hots, i mainly want to breed, study, observe them.
I welcome any advice and critisism, i do understand you all have yours, other hots keepers, the publics and my welfare in mind.
Thankyou all for your advice


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Southerncopperhead said:


> but people take my enthusiasm as i am just a lil kid tring to use this as a toy project, and they think i am not genuine.


I disagree entirely. My back up handler is the same age as you. so god knows where you got that from.


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## marc20 (Oct 18, 2011)

i dont beleve in keeping venomous snakes as PETs. you cant handle it or do anything with it. your safer keeping a gun at least that doesnt have a mind of its own. i think if people really want to then they should have to do 1000 hours experience befor being aloud to keep them.like in america. i want to work with venomous snake in a zoo or somthing but i would never keep one in my house. i keep none venomous and i can handle them safely. even if i get bit my life isnt in danger. i think there should b an age were you can keep them like theres a drinking age. i think even some of the non venoumos should be a dwa species eg reticulated pythons and burmese pythons really any thing thay get up to 15 feet because they can kill to.
i no i cant say anything because i dont keep them and no experice with them. im only 20 an if someone my age got hold of a venomous snake then it more than likely would only be to show off and will have noo were near the experience required to keep them.
but my veiw doesnt really count because i dnt keep them. the only thing i can say is think befor you get one : victory:


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## craig griffin (Nov 2, 2010)

I agree to certain point that maybe "most / some" average 20 year old may look at having a venomous snake as a “cool, hip hop” or whatever you want to call it thing to do. However I am 20 years old and have been keeping NON venomous snakes for around 7 years. Therefore do I feel like I could have DWA at home in my own responsibility?... no! Even though over the past two years I have started to take the climb and learn more about the general keeping on all different types of snakes, and actually having the chance to work with some right stroppy snakes. 

Even though I have attended a hot handling program where I had to deal with a desert sand viper, Egyptian cobra and a black mamba this does not mean im “qualified” to handle hots. This gives me the upperhand and knowledge on how to gain experience safely whilst working around hots.

There is no amount of watching, reading and learning that can prepare you for working with hots. You need to be 100% sure that you can deal with them safely and effectively, and understand that if you slip up you are not only causing your self-danger, you are causing a problem for the people around you. I have 100% confidence in the people I work with when I comes to hots – and I hope I can provided confidence to others when im working alongside them, 

rant over :whip:


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

marc20 said:


> i dont beleve in keeping venomous snakes as PETs. you cant handle it or do anything with it. your safer keeping a gun at least that doesnt have a mind of its own. i think if people really want to then they should have to do 1000 hours experience befor being aloud to keep them.like in america. i want to work with venomous snake in a zoo or somthing but i would never keep one in my house. i keep none venomous and i can handle them safely. even if i get bit my life isnt in danger. i think there should b an age were you can keep them like theres a drinking age. i think even some of the non venoumos should be a dwa species eg reticulated pythons and burmese pythons really any thing thay get up to 15 feet because they can kill to.
> i no i cant say anything because i dont keep them and no experice with them. im only 20 an if someone my age got hold of a venomous snake then it more than likely would only be to show off and will have noo were near the experience required to keep them.
> but my veiw doesnt really count because i dnt keep them. the only thing i can say is think befor you get one : victory:


 
Posts like this do make you think about things quite a lot........


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

marc20 said:


> i dont beleve in keeping venomous snakes as PETs. you cant handle it or do anything with it. your safer keeping a gun at least that doesnt have a mind of its own. i think if people really want to then they should have to do 1000 hours experience befor being aloud to keep them.like in america. i want to work with venomous snake in a zoo or somthing but i would never keep one in my house. i keep none venomous and i can handle them safely. even if i get bit my life isnt in danger. i think there should b an age were you can keep them like theres a drinking age. i think even some of the non venoumos should be a dwa species eg reticulated pythons and burmese pythons really any thing thay get up to 15 feet because they can kill to.
> i no i cant say anything because i dont keep them and no experice with them. im only 20 an if someone my age got hold of a venomous snake then it more than likely would only be to show off and will have noo were near the experience required to keep them.
> but my veiw doesnt really count because i dnt keep them. the only thing i can say is think befor you get one : victory:


To be fair I think age has nothing to do with it (obviously not a 10 year old). As long as your sensible, and don't regard it as a 'pet'. I'm 21 and looking to keep hot snakes, but I think anyone with common sense is able to keep them. 

I couldn't give a flying F what other people think, and I think very few people that look to keep venomous snakes do it to look cool. They can easily get a FWC and look just as 'hardcore'.

It's the same with anything, i can easily kill myself in my car...I've driven up to 180mph(ish) in it. More people kill themselves driving cars than keeping venomous snakes (if you took a proportional ratio). So what how about we say no one can own a car over 1litre until your 30? You can't ride a motorbike till your 30? And can't drink alcohol till your 30? They can all kill you too. It's pathetic in my opinion. 

Yes do your research, yes make sure you have procedures in place, yes get hands on experience, but I think your blowing it way out of proportion.


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## kingcobra (Jul 27, 2005)

problem is that having venomous "pets" is that while you yourself may be compotent,other points of contact with the venomous creature may not be,and accidents can occur,even with care being observed,and highly experienced keepers. other less experienced or aware family members could be at risk,and household pets also. the D.W.A. is a good idea,though in reality,like all legislation it is not infallible.


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