# komodo dragons



## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

is it jus me or r they not on the dwa list? i no ud probably never get hold or even want 1 but just seems strange that theyre not included and something like a dwarf caimen is


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## Daleos89 (Apr 25, 2008)

no they aint on the dwa list n i wudda thought it would b a near impossibility to get hold of one....i know one of the ways is to be gifted one byt the tribe leader or whatever he's called of one of the komodo islands


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

they are in private collections in the UK and Europe


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Yeah is it true that one lone 'old and out' male is sold every year by the head tribesman for a 100,000 dollars or something? This counts for a very high percentage of the small island economy? I heard this but have no idea of the source.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

jus cant understand why they rnt dwa tho


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

yeah but then neither are crocodile monitors and they can get longer than komodos.


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## SWMorelia (May 15, 2007)

But they are C.I.T.E.S. 
Welcome to CITES
And thats much harder to get than a DWA


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

They breed readily in zoological collections around the world - just look at the success that both london and chester had with the females last year with parthenogenic reproduction - the trouble is that noone wants them - all zoos that want them have them - the CITES is easy - it's no different getting cites papers for a komodo than for a tortoise.

Defras stand on komodos is that in principle they have no objection to them being kept, as long as CITES papers are supplied - the animal welfare legislation however sets fairly stringent requirements for the housing of such an animal (much the same as the requirements for keeping primates).

nice to have one eh ?

carl


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

I was offered komodo babies at hamm two years ago for 2000 euro with cities paperwork. Its like anything knowing the rite people you can get anything and everything!

And no croc monitors do not get as big as komodos.!


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## MattS (Aug 21, 2007)

Tom_b said:


> And no croc monitors do not get as big as komodos.!


To be fair he didn't say bigger he said....



exoticsandtropics said:


> ....crocodile monitors and they can get longer than komodos.


Which seems to be backed up by...

http://www.tigerhomes.org/animal/other-animals/crocodile-monitor.cfm
It's the whole biggest/longest snake - anaconda/retic debate all over again. :lol2:


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

lophius said:


> They breed readily in zoological collections around the world - just look at the success that both london and chester had with the females last year with parthenogenic reproduction - the trouble is that noone wants them - all zoos that want them have them - the CITES is easy - it's no different getting cites papers for a komodo than for a tortoise.


Hiya Carl,
I wouldn't go so far as to say they breed "readily"! And I wouldn't class parthenogenesis as "success", intriguing for everyone concerned yes. But unfortunately parthenogenetic offspring must be a studbook keepers nightmare... a high profile animal that's hard to rehome without damaging the international population genetics... great success...

Lotte***


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

SW-morelia said:


> But they are C.I.T.E.S.
> Welcome to CITES
> And thats much harder to get than a DWA


I trust you are talking about CITES import/export paperwork rather than the bog standard Article 10's?
Though if you can source them legally avec Article 10's, in the EU then you would not need import/export permits.


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## reptismail (Nov 15, 2008)

this is random ye but i was watching a program and there is a tame one in london zoo and the keeper was stroking it and all.


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Charlotte -

I would say that they breed readily - I have spoken with a number of keepers who have bred them and no longer do so because of the problems in disposing of the offspring - 

okay 'success' was perhaps the wrong term but shows that they will reproduce regardless - as for stud animals - its pointless as there are no pedigrees for Komodos, they are not being reintroduced to the wild and no one is concerned about captive population genetics - they are there for display purposes only.

Whilst I have not examined their genetics I would assume that most animals show a common ancestery - this would certainly be born out by the limited natural distribution to only a handful of islands therefore gene pool is likely to be limited. Take the hawain goose - whole population based on only 40 individuals - also the funny thing with parthenogensis is that the offspring are entirely male - a natural genetic reaction to preserve species in limited gene pool situations.

carl


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

lophius said:


> as for stud animals - its pointless as there are no pedigrees for Komodos, they are not being reintroduced to the wild and no one is concerned about captive population genetics - they are there for display purposes only.


On the contrary my dear 

All species within EAZA registered Zoological collections (and probably beyond but I wouldn't like to say) have an "International Studbook Keeper" position. Many are vacant, but _V. komodoensis_ isnt one of those;

http://www.rotterdamzoo.nl/import/assetmanager/9/2659/Komodo Dragon EEP Studbook.pdf

A studbook for international zoological collections has nothing to do with "stud animals" or "pedigrees". 
Irrespective of whether animals are to be released to the wild or not concern about captive poplation genetics is vastly important. 

Representatives of species in Zoological collections have to be regarded as a potential fallback at any given time in the future. To be ridiculous for a second, if a 500m high tsunami wiped Komodo island flat, suddenly the state of the cative population could matter an awful lot.

Therefore the management of the species in captivity as a whole is a big job and animals can't just be bred continuously because you can nor can their offspring just be gotten rid of. A limited number of organisations have the means to keep animals like this, it's not that all those that want them have them, it's that you must clearly have the means before another collection will export them to you. Hence why those successful organisations will sometimes find they have a boatload of less than helpful baby komodos... :2thumb:

I hope this has clarified!!!
Lotte***


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## Chance (Jun 14, 2008)

Tom_b said:


> I was offered komodo babies at hamm two years ago for 2000 euro with cities paperwork. Its like anything knowing the rite people you can get anything and everything!
> 
> And no croc monitors do not get as big as komodos.!


I agree. If you have the money and are dumb enough you can get hold of whatever animal you want really. Its a bit crappy cos you can get yourself a tiger or a panda or a elephant. There would be no illegal import trade though if people didnt buy things like this.

I wouldnt want one lol..


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## Natonstan (Aug 9, 2008)

Komodo (island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

For those interested


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Chance said:


> I agree. If you have the money and are dumb enough you can get hold of whatever animal you want really. Its a bit crappy cos you can get yourself a tiger or a panda or a elephant. There would be no illegal import trade though if people didnt buy things like this.
> 
> I wouldnt want one lol..


how would you sneak a giant animal in, anyway theres plenty here and available fully legally anyway.


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## Tom_b (Sep 23, 2008)

SiUK said:


> how would you sneak a giant animal in, anyway theres plenty here and available fully legally anyway.


 
With you there on that mate, i often manage to obtain copies of the lists that are circulated by zoos and i can obtain all above board most species of animal without a problem!

There was a male Asiatic elephant on the last list, fully grown that resides at whipsnade for £12,500! Anyone interested


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

exactly, there were lions and ligers on Rorys list the other day, and if I had the money and the room id love to keep a few elephants.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

SiUK said:


> exactly, there were lions and ligers on Rorys list the other day, and if I had the money and the room id love to keep a few elephants.


You and me both Si, elephants are incredible animals, have you read 'Sacred Elephant' by Heathcote Williams?


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

no I havnt mate, is a good book?


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## lophius (Jan 6, 2008)

heah charlotte - interesting stuff - any idea what happened to all of the parthogenic offspring?


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## RMG (Jun 10, 2007)

they went to various zoo's around Europe


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

SiUK said:


> no I havnt mate, is a good book?


Excellent book Si, as is 'Whale Nation' by the same author, stick them on your Christmas list :2thumb:


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

According to the RSPCA you need a DWA for these as they inject venom!!!!! I kid you not, I got in to work today, and found a job from the weekend where this was said!


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

ian14 said:


> According to the RSPCA you need a DWA for these as they inject venom!!!!! I kid you not, I got in to work today, and found a job from the weekend where this was said!


well they definately dont inject venom, inject is the wrong word, but they do carry venom.


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## koganinja (Jun 11, 2006)

52 diffrent kinds of bactaria that are all not good to humans ha ha so the chew it in my friend


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