# Wood chips?



## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Riddle me this.

Word reaches me that using wood chippings in the viv of a T can actually be lethal to the spider.

Now, from memory, I don't think I have ever used them, but is this accurate? If it is, is there something in the wood that hurts the T, or did it perhaps mean if you used it as an entire sub? That would make more sense!

I cannot logically see how some wood chippings, esp the sterile sort that you can readily buy, could do a lot of harm, if it were just a smallish amount.

If it is true, does this apply to using them with other inverts?


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

I could see actual chips being bad for them.

Esp with sauce.

Lol.

Seriously, anyone else heard of this?

Tsk.

Becky would know this one.

:whip:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

*Now I Know - Thanks Me!*

There is much debate on the issue of the perfect substrate for tarantulas and the debate will likely never end. It is as much a personal choice as anything. Good results have been reported using bed-a-beast or jungle mix, which can be found in most pet stores. Another possible substrate that you may have heard of or had success with is a 50/50 mix of potting soil and peat moss. Both of these substrates hold moisture well and support burrowing. A word of caution, if using potting soil, make sure that there are no pesticides or fertilizer in the soil as these can harm your tarantula. Vermiculite (NOT industrial) can also be used as a substrate although there is great debate on this as it can possibly contain asbestos. Many people have used it as a substrate with no ill effects on their tarantulas. *Other possible substrates are wood chips or sand. These are not recommended as substrates. If you do choose to use wood chips make sure not to use cedar (as it is a natural insecticide and will possibly kill your tarantula) or pine chips as it has been reported that the sap is harmful to tarantulas. Sand does not hold moisture well and gets stale quickly. Neither of these substrates support burrowing*


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> I could see actual chips being bad for them.
> 
> Esp with sauce.
> 
> ...


Like your own post below the only thing I can think of is some tree bark being toxic, like pine trees wouldn't be good for example. Then also I guess if the T wanted to burrow it couldn't in wood chips.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

joeyboy said:


> Like your own post below the only thing I can think of is some tree bark being toxic, like pine trees wouldn't be good for example. Then also I guess if the T wanted to burrow it couldn't in wood chips.


Yeah.

But surely only a fool of Olympian proportions would use chips as an entire sub for a T?

Probably the toxic thing then.

Perhaps those trees mentioned are not native to the environs of T's?

Otherwise they would be poisioned by it in nature, would they not?


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## joeyboy (Jul 19, 2008)

enlightenment said:


> Yeah.
> 
> But surely only a fool of Olympian proportions would use chips as an entire sub for a T?
> 
> ...


I doubt it's just because it's not from their country of origin as most stick insects accept bramble and/or privet and that doesn't grow were they are from.

It's mainly because chips from pine trees are at least a little toxic for animals anyway, don't think people can use them with lizards either although with lizard most wouldn't use chips anyway. Other trees can have toxic bark too.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

joeyboy said:


> I doubt it's just because it's not from their country of origin as most stick insects accept bramble and/or privet and that doesn't grow were they are from.
> 
> It's mainly because chips from pine trees are at least a little toxic for animals anyway, don't think people can use them with lizards either although with lizard most wouldn't use chips anyway. Other trees can have toxic bark too.


A T walks across or happens to make a burrow in a pine tree, or one of the others. Does it die? See, I would not have thought so, unless it is genetically wired to know which trees to avoid?


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

Depends on the type of wood. Some places actually use woodchips gained from woodmills so the wood will contain diesel.

Ive always considered woodchips are far too unstable for T's use anyway.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

And for other inverts? Beetles, scorpions, etc..?


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## Lucifus (Aug 30, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> And for other inverts? Beetles, scorpions, etc..?


Same. Ive seen a variety of inverts on wood chips and they always seem to wobble a fair bit.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

S'pose you could make little mounds out of them.

Like partial hides.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Wood naturally releases substances eg. sap which are poisonous to more than just inverts. Cedar chips seem to have a natural insecticide within it so therefore its not recommended.
As long as the chips are not either pine or cedar and it not of a variety that releases sap theres no real harm in including some in the set-up, afterall cork and bamboo are favoured by hobbyists.
Sand can be used as a substrate if its mixed with peat/coir. I've actually found this to be a great moisture retaining substrate using fine play sand. Avoid coarse sand or builders sand which might include fungicides or may be too abrasive. Its odd that your c&p suggests "*Sand does not hold moisture well*" - have they never built sandcastles or been to a beach?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Wood naturally releases substances eg. sap which are poisonous to more than just inverts. Cedar chips seem to have a natural insecticide within it so therefore its not recommended.
> As long as the chips are not either pine or cedar and it not of a variety that releases sap theres no real harm in including some in the set-up


Kiln dried pine is fine. Cedar contains oil through out the wood which cannot be "dried" or "cooked" our however pine sap is dried and therefore it has no major harm. 


Poxicator said:


> I've actually found this to be a great moisture retaining substrate using fine play sand. Avoid coarse sand or builders sand which might include fungicides or may be too abrasive.


Same....


Poxicator said:


> Its odd that your c&p suggests "Sand does not hold moisture well" - *have they never built sandcastles or been to a beach?*


:rotfl:


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

I love the way the first 2 posts are you answering your own thread :lol2:

I, personally, don't think wood chip looks all that great. Look at any spider in the wild and they're on soil, not rough ground like the chips. I don't think they're suitable because a spider cannot burrow in them, no matter how hard it tries! And every species of spider, given the chance, will burrow a bit. Even my arboreals burrow behind their bark to make a little hide away. Crickets can easily hide in it and then crawl out to attack a moulting spider, and it doesnt look overly cosy to moult on either! :lol2:

Personally i stick to coconut fibre


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Yeah.
> 
> But surely only a fool of Olympian proportions would use chips as an entire sub for a T?


There are endless threads on here and in the classifieds where the spiders pictured are on 100% wood chip substrate!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> There are endless threads on here and in the classifieds where the spiders pictured are on 100% wood chip substrate!


Yup.

And that is because there are a never ending supply of idiots of Olympian proportions.

:lol2:

As I said, Becky, I have personally never used this with any T that I have had. The wood chips that I bought were from an invert shop, but it doesn't say on the bag what type of wood they are. It is a reputable shop, therefore, I would assume that they would not stock the type of chips that are said to be toxic.

I actually just bought a bag of them to use a small amount for the beetles.

I might not use them now.

Or I might.

Not sure!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Re sand. Whenever I have had to use this as a sub, for my scorps and camel spiders for example, I usually just use the fine sand that I use for my lovebird, Pepe. It seems to do the job. Playsand? Are we speaking here of the sort of thing that kids would put in a sandpit?

*shrugs*


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

yes, that the kind of sand as it is free from chemicals as well as being far less coarse. As above, mixing a variety of substrates together - peat, coir, vermiculite, sphagnum moss, sand, wood chips, forest bedding etc etc will help to retain moisture, be good for burrowing as well as look more realistic.
Most ppl quote the same things on the net, I've read about Cedar chippings loads of times but I don't think I've ever seen them for sale! 

I have one T that's on wood chippings and a nice piece of cork bark. She's webbed over most of it and sits happily in the open, never showing signs of being skittish or aggressive. If it wasn't for the fact she looks so comfortable I'd probably change it, oh, and the fact is a rather large OBT!


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Yup.
> 
> And that is because there are a never ending supply of idiots of Olympian proportions.
> 
> :lol2:


 
:lol2:

Still makes me laugh how the thread had 2 answers... both of which yours and you started the thread :lol:

But OBT's can burrow Peter.... maybe she would on a more suitable substrate?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

yep Becky, a more suitable substrate might be best, but she's so large it been suggested she could be gravid. I got it a about 4 months ago with set-up.

I have about 8 other OBTs set up with deep enough substrate to burrow and not one of them has, rather annoying as they've webbed at the top and onto the lids! Fun feeding them I can tell ya!!!


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Becky said:


> :lol2:
> 
> Still makes me laugh how the thread had 2 answers... both of which yours and you started the thread :lol:


Me too!

I got impatient waiting for a reply, so decided to answer my own question!

x


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## Stuart C (Jun 12, 2008)

yes woodchips would be too abrasive, and as someone suggested who is using it for a gbb the reason why its all webbed over the chips could be it not liking it and trying to cover it over, but it can do damage to the abdomen


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Stuart C said:


> yes woodchips would be too abrasive, and as someone suggested who is using it for a gbb the reason why its all webbed over the chips could be it not liking it and trying to cover it over, but it can do damage to the abdomen


Actually it was an OBT
But, please tell me as I'm quite curious, if we know that OBT and GBB are big webbers, what difference does it make to the T if nearly the whole substrate it is covered in web?
I can understand if it were a fossorial species, I could understand if it were an aboreal species that requires high humidity but my experience with OBTs (I have 12 at mo) and the fact its seems the most laid back OBT I have suggests its really not bothered at all by the substrate.

Just in case you want to check her out:


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

If it's healthy and doing well, you must be doing something right, I would say.


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## Stuart C (Jun 12, 2008)

Poxicator said:


> Actually it was an OBT
> But, please tell me as I'm quite curious, if we know that OBT and GBB are big webbers, what difference does it make to the T if nearly the whole substrate it is covered in web?
> I can understand if it were a fossorial species, I could understand if it were an aboreal species that requires high humidity but my experience with OBTs (I have 12 at mo) and the fact its seems the most laid back OBT I have suggests its really not bothered at all by the substrate.


sory I was at work and had to hide the screen an whenI came backto it I knew the T had 3 letters an one was a B  Obt's are semi arboreal and can also be a digger, although mine went up, some go down, and as a member ofthe BTS am sure you know the responce whenever a photo is shown with woodchips on their forum


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

LOL absolutely. Infact it makes me smile sometimes. One person puts a statement in a thread, someone repeats it and before you know it its fact. I've even commented about inappropriate substrates myself! We're also obsessed with cleaning - remove all substrate, freeze and bake wood, eeeeek there's other insects in my enclosure! Its quite often forgotten where spiders live, and its certainly not in the pristine conditions we provide for our Ts.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> yep Becky, a more suitable substrate might be best, but she's so large it been suggested she could be gravid. I got it a about 4 months ago with set-up.
> 
> I have about 8 other OBTs set up with deep enough substrate to burrow and not one of them has, rather annoying as they've webbed at the top and onto the lids! Fun feeding them I can tell ya!!!


HAHA rather you than me! Both of the obt's i've ever owned burrowed thankfully! I didnt have them long before i gave them away lol

You might have more little orange beasts on your hands then if she is gravid :Na_Na_Na_Na:

Do the wood chips hold moisture? Assuming she laid a sac, would you be able to keep humidity up?


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

enlightenment said:


> Me too!
> 
> I got impatient waiting for a reply, so decided to answer my own question!
> 
> x


:lol2: 

I didn't mean to ignore your pm either :lol2:


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Becky said:


> Do the wood chips hold moisture? Assuming she laid a sac, would you be able to keep humidity up?


Now that's something I hadn't even thought about :blush:, Thanks Becky.
The wood chips would start to grow mould with moisture.

She seems to be refusing food lately so I'm doubful she's gravid but this might be an excellent opportunity to renew the substrate if its a sign of a moult.


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## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

Just use some coir withouth the wood, fella?


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Wait til she moults Peter, or lays a sac, either way you'll be able to sort it. As long as the air is humid then a sac would be fine.. Just a pot of water?


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Yes, she definitely has a pot of water but she's in a faunarium so too much ventilation to raise humidity. I'm hoping moult rather than sac as I don't fancy fighting with this large OBT for what is rightlyfully hers.


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## Becky (Mar 26, 2007)

Tape up some of the lid


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