# please correct me



## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

am i right in saying that if you bred a domint morph royal to a normal you would get some morphs in clutch and not just 100%hets


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

can anyone help


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

chewy fyu said:


> am i right in saying that if you bred a domint morph royal to a normal you would get some morphs in clutch and not just 100%hets


YOU WOULD GET 50/50 :2thumb:


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

so 50% morphs and 50%hets or 50%hets and 50%normals


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

chewy fyu said:


> am i right in saying that if you bred a domint morph royal to a normal you would get some morphs in clutch and not just 100%hets


you're half right, and half wrong...
yes, you should get some in the clutch
NO hets from dominant genes tho, it'll either be a visual (ie) spider, or it'll be a non-spider = normal


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

[1C]Dominant trait X Normal = .

50%Normal.
50%[1C]Dominant trait.
=======
[2C]Dominant trait X Normal = .

100%[1C]Dominant trait.


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

well what would i get if i bred a normal to killerbee


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

chewy fyu said:


> well what would i get if i bred a normal to killerbee


pastels and bumblebees only...


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

ok cheers alan what would you get if bumblebee was used also how much are killer bees nowadays


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

do you mean 'bumblebee x normal' ?
1:4 chance of: normal, spider, pastel, bee

killers are £2500+


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

ok cheers


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

chewy fyu said:


> am i right in saying that if you bred a domint morph royal to a normal you would get some morphs in clutch and not just 100%hets


Yes, but the morphs are the 100% hets.

Het is short for heterozygous. A gene pair is heterozygous if the two genes are not the same. The most common type of heterozygous gene pair has a mutant gene paired with a normal gene. By extension, a heterozygous snake is one that has a heterozygous gene pair.

Homozygous means that the two genes in a gene pair are the same. They are either two copies of a mutant gene or two copies of the normal gene.

If you breed a royal with two copies of either a dominant mutant gene or a codominant mutant gene to a normal royal, all of the babies are hets. In other words, all of the babies have a mutant gene paired with a normal gene. But these hets do not look normal. The only hets that look normal have a recessive mutant gene paired with a normal gene.

If you breed a royal with one copy of either a dominant mutant gene or a codominant mutant gene to a normal royal, the expectation is that half of the babies are hets and the rest are normals. The hets have a mutant gene paired with a normal gene and do not look normal. The normal-looking babies have two copies of the normal gene; they do not have the mutant gene at all.

Pastel is a codominant mutant gene. Two copies of the pastel gene produces a homozygous pastel royal python (AKA super pastel). A pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene produces a heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel) royal python.

Homozygous pastel (AKA super pastel) X normal -->
all babies are heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel)

Heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel) X normal -->
1/2 heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel)
1/2 normal (not heterozygous)

Pinstripe is a dominant mutant gene. You can't tell the difference between a homozygous pinstripe royal (with two pinstripe mutant genes) and a heterozygous pinstripe royal (with one pinstripe mutant gene).

Homozygous pinstripe (AKA pinstripe) X normal -->
all babies are heterozygous pinstripe (AKA pinstripe)

Heterozygous pinstripe (AKA pinstripe) X normal -->
1/2 heterozygous pinstripe (AKA pinstripe)
1/2 normal (not heterozygous)

Clear as mud?


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

paulh said:


> Clear as mud?


cant see any mud there...
as clear as


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

oookay thats had me confused had to read twice but get ya now


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

paulh said:


> Pastel is a codominant mutant gene. Two copies of the pastel gene produces a homozygous pastel royal python (AKA super pastel). A pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene produces a heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel) royal python.
> 
> Homozygous pastel (AKA super pastel) X normal -->
> all babies are heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel)
> ...




Isn't at Heterozygous Pastel just a Pastel, the Homozygous Pastel is the Super Pastel? Or am i getting confused again?:whistling2:


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

corny girl said:


> Isn't at Heterozygous Pastel just a Pastel, the Homozygous Pastel is the Super Pastel? Or am i getting confused again?:whistling2:


Guess it must just be a typo :lol2:


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

corny girl said:


> Isn't at Heterozygous Pastel just a Pastel, the Homozygous Pastel is the Super Pastel? Or am i getting confused again?:whistling2:


well spotted...
missed that one


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## Sziren (Mar 25, 2008)

oh Alan... slipping now.... hee hee hee


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

corny girl said:


> Isn't at Heterozygous Pastel just a Pastel, the Homozygous Pastel is the Super Pastel? Or am i getting confused again?:whistling2:


You are not confused. I made a mistake.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

paulh said:


> Heterozygous pastel (AKA super pastel) X normal -->
> 1/2 heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel)
> 1/2 normal (not heterozygous)


Oops. Made a mistake when I cut and pasted. That first line should be 

Heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel) X normal -->


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

paulh said:


> Oops. Made a mistake when I cut and pasted. That first line should be
> 
> Heterozygous pastel (AKA pastel) X normal -->


I've changed it in the original post to avoid any future confusion


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

alan1 said:


> well spotted...
> missed that one



Well i have had a good teacher :notworthy:. I have learnt that a Heterozygous carries just one copy of a gene (ie Spider) but a Homozygous carries 2 copies of the gene (ie Super Pastel, Ivory, Black eyed Lucy etc..) & looks very different to the parents :2thumb:.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

corny girl said:


> Well i have had a good teacher :notworthy:. I have learnt that a Heterozygous carries just one copy of a gene (ie Spider) but a Homozygous carries 2 copies of the gene (ie Super Pastel, Ivory, Black eyed Lucy etc..) & looks very different to the parents :2thumb:.


I'm not a royal man, but Spider is dominant right? Which means both heterozygous and homozygous are both Spiders.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Nobody has claimed to have a homozygous spider. So the jury is still out on whether spider is a dominant or codominant mutant gene.

On the other hand, spider can be claimed as a dominant if you define dominant as 'not recessive'.


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## alan1 (Nov 11, 2008)

with there being 'tens of thousands' of spiders out there
one would assume, that if there was a super form, it would've appeared by now


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## chewy fyu (Jul 20, 2009)

so is dominant super form e.g super pastel etc and co dom is spider ' pastel etc


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

chewy fyu said:


> so is dominant super form e.g super pastel etc and co dom is spider ' pastel etc


Dominant means that the "het" and "****" forms *both look the same*, and look different from the "wildtype" (aka "normal") form.

Co-dom means that the "het" and "****" forms look *different to one another*, and *both* are different to the "wildtype" form.


To give examples, Enigma in leopard geckos is dominant - whether the leo has one ("het") or two ("****") copies of the gene, it looks like an Enigma. The het and **** forms are alike, and are different from the wildtype.

Silkback in beardies is co-dom; if a beardie has a single copy, it has reduced scales (and is called "Leatherback"). If it has two copies, it has no scales. The het and **** forms are different from one another, but *both* are also different to the wildtype.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

chewy fyu said:


> so is dominant super form e.g super pastel etc and co dom is spider ' pastel etc


See what HadesDragon wrote.

I just want to add that this is a very common mistake on herper genetics web sites. Dominant/codominant/recessive always means dominant/codominant/recessive TO THE NORMAL GENE. The number of mutant genes in a gene pair is irrelevant to the dominant/codominant/recessive classification of the mutant. Pastel is codominant to the normal gene, and that makes it a codominant mutant gene no matter whether there is one or two pastel genes in a given snake's gene pair.

"Dominant", as used in the quote, should be replaced with "homozygous (name of mutant gene)". "Codominant", as used in the quote, should be replaced with "heterozygous (name of mutant gene)".


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