# vicks vapour rub and snakes



## shaunbob

i know the vicks can be used as an alternative treatment for RI with the fumes ECT. and my snakes going to the vets again on monday.. but does the actual oil/paste-y stuff safe for snakes say if it got on the skin

as im short on money and all the money is on the vet bills.. i was wondering if i dissolve/melt the vicks rub in some water in a small tub would this harm the snake? as i cant really afford a massive box for the smaller to sit inside?


if i cant and its at all dangerous i wont do this.. id rather know first than take my snakes to the vets for more than just RI


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## AilsaM

Am no use at all being new to snake keeping but am wondering how something so strong as Vicks (meant for humans) can be used in any way shape or form on reptiles? :gasp:

I mean even I find the fumes from vicks quite strong, so can you imagine the little lungs of a snake breathing in these fumes or absorbing it through their skin :gasp:


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## shaunbob

i find it strong too lol but.. it is safe as long as its not used in excess... small amounts is fine.. and the water kind of dilutes it a bit.. i think


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## sharpstrain

there was a thread on here by wlw about alternative ri treatment - cant remember the detail but it involved disolving some vics in hot water and putting it in the viv/rub with the snake to breathe in the fumes

dont know if or how well it works as i have never tried it


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## damotmf

the vics is used to try clear the mucus out of the snakes lungs in the same way we use it when we have a cold, weather this works i couldn't say. i can only imagine it may help the symptoms rather than cure. ri if left untreated could be fatal, the vet is you best option. you can raise the temp in the viv till you have a chance to take it, but a course of anti biotics is the best way to go. some have said holding your snake so its head is pointing down may also help clear the mucus.


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## shaunbob

sharpstrain said:


> there was a thread on here by wlw about alternative ri treatment - cant remember the detail but it involved disolving some vics in hot water and putting it in the viv/rub with the snake to breathe in the fumes
> 
> dont know if or how well it works as i have never tried it



yeah i know that 

my RI sicky snake is in a small cheap plastic aquarium thing as quaranteen tank so i was wondering if a line some tissue/kitchen roll with vicks and put like a centimetre of warm water in on a heat mat to create evap/humidty with the vicks fumes aslo but because he is going to the vets on monday.. again.. all my money spare is going on the bills.. so i cant really spend on a big box.. so i though that idea would be good.. but dont know if its safe being kind of direct contact..


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## shaunbob

damotmf said:


> the vics is used to try clear the mucus out of the snakes lungs in the same way we use it when we have a cold, weather this works i couldn't say. i can only imagine it may help the symptoms rather than cure. ri if left untreated could be fatal, the vet is you best option. you can raise the temp in the viv till you have a chance to take it, but a course of anti biotics is the best way to go. some have said holding your snake so its head is pointing down may also help clear the mucus.


my snake is on second trip to vet... the earliest available time is monday.. and he is on baytril... and he has gotten worse in all honesty.. at first his mouth a a bit of sticky saliva... now his mouth is full on gunked up of saliva.

at first i thought i caught it early.. but because he is soo small ( well he is an adult sand boa but they are not very big soo)... it was soo hard to tell.. and it didnt even looked like he even had it at first..


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## nelly1

shaunbob said:


> my snake is on second trip to vet... the earliest available time is monday.. and he is on baytril... and he has gotten worse in all honesty.. at first his mouth a a bit of sticky saliva... now his mouth is full on gunked up of saliva.
> 
> at first i thought i caught it early.. but because he is soo small ( well he is an adult sand boa but they are not very big soo)... it was soo hard to tell.. and it didnt even looked like he even had it at first..


Sometimes they look to get worse as they are getting better, the gunked up mouth could be the snakes lungs clearing.
As said the vet is best option, not a home remedy unless you know what you are doing and have the correct equipment:2thumb:


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## Pauleve

link here 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/400758-alternative-r-i-treatment.html

Bear in mind that the snake will sound worrse as the treatment loosens the mucus much the same as happens with humans when we cough the crap up.


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## sharpstrain

Pauleve said:


> link here
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/400758-alternative-r-i-treatment.html
> 
> Bear in mind that the snake will sound worrse as the treatment loosens the mucus much the same as happens with humans when we cough the crap up.


nice one I couldnt find it:blush:


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## shaunbob

im just using it to aid the antibiotics.. rather than "curing" it.


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## Carpetsnotrugs

Hey guys first post.
So one of my girls (d'alberts white lipped python)
Went off feed and started yawning a lot and was showing dried mucus around the nostrils. From what I know of reptiles this generally indicates R.I. Not wanting to spend a lot at the vet unnecessarily I figured I would research this topic and see if there was anything I could do myself. I came across two "at-home" treatments as I'm sure many of you have if your researching this particular topic and your reading this right now.

1. F10 disinfectant through a reptifogger into a receptacle of some sort
2. Vicks vaporub+eucalyptus oil into boiling water and placed in tub out of the patients reach.

Believing the first to be the better option (vaporub+eucalyptus had a bit of holistic feel to me), I ordered a reptifogger overnight but the f10 earliest arrival was at least a week so I decided to try the vapolyptus treatment. I boiled water added vicks vaposteam(same product contains eucalyptus oil already and is designed for steam application) placed in tub with Bathsheba(the patient). And set the timer for 5 minutes to come back and check on her. 3 minutes in I heard a loud banging from that area and rushed to find Sheba absolutely freaking out in her tub. I promptly removed her and watched as her strength left her and head started hanging down. I ran with her to my car and drove to the nearest vet where they told me she was a beautiful animal but there's nothing they could do...
I really don't want anyone else have to watch their beloved animal go from squeezing their hand to hanging like spaghetti in a matter of minutes so I'm posting this and telling you guys to be careful. Drastic climactic changes can be very stressful and (obviously) fatal,especially to an animal in an already weakened state (like a reptile with an RI). I think it was all just too much for her little heart and I figured it was my civic duty to post. Good luck and Much love guys.


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## 245T

That's a terrible thing to read - so sorry for your loss.


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## micacloe

Sorry for your loss that's devastating! It's good that you've posted this though as I've seen loads of people saying it's a good technique


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## Dr3d

Carpetsnotrugs said:


> Hey guys first post.
> So one of my girls (d'alberts white lipped python)
> Went off feed and started yawning a lot and was showing dried mucus around the nostrils. From what I know of reptiles this generally indicates R.I. Not wanting to spend a lot at the vet unnecessarily I figured I would research this topic and see if there was anything I could do myself. I came across two "at-home" treatments as I'm sure many of you have if your researching this particular topic and your reading this right now.
> 
> 1. F10 disinfectant through a reptifogger into a receptacle of some sort
> 2. Vicks vaporub+eucalyptus oil into boiling water and placed in tub out of the patients reach.
> 
> Believing the first to be the better option (vaporub+eucalyptus had a bit of holistic feel to me), I ordered a reptifogger overnight but the f10 earliest arrival was at least a week so I decided to try the vapolyptus treatment. I boiled water added vicks vaposteam(same product contains eucalyptus oil already and is designed for steam application) placed in tub with Bathsheba(the patient). And set the timer for 5 minutes to come back and check on her. 3 minutes in I heard a loud banging from that area and rushed to find Sheba absolutely freaking out in her tub. I promptly removed her and watched as her strength left her and head started hanging down. I ran with her to my car and drove to the nearest vet where they told me she was a beautiful animal but there's nothing they could do...
> I really don't want anyone else have to watch their beloved animal go from squeezing their hand to hanging like spaghetti in a matter of minutes so I'm posting this and telling you guys to be careful. Drastic climactic changes can be very stressful and (obviously) fatal,especially to an animal in an already weakened state (like a reptile with an RI). I think it was all just too much for her little heart and I figured it was my civic duty to post. Good luck and Much love guys.


 
Very sad story, sorry for your loss.

I would have to ask the question tho. what is the difference with vicks vapour rub and vicks vapour steam....

I have successfully treat one of my snakes with f10 and vics vapour RUB in the past and it worked a treat with no nasty side effects. I am not saying this works 100% of the time but had none of the signs or symptoms of the above.. the snake is happy and healthy...


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## gazza666

I've used vicks and it worked a treat. 
-put your snake is a tub with air holes 
-boil the kettle, put it in a cup with vicks and some eucalyptus oil
-get a larger tub and put the cup in that
-put the tub with the snake in it inside the larger tub
-seal the larger tub

The snake won't be able to burn itself because the tub it's in is sealed. I used this method on a Blood python I used to have and it cleared it up in no time, bearing in mind though I caught it at very early stages.


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## CloudForest

eucalyptus oil is known to be highly toxic to many animals, I would be very cautious about using any product which contained it treat reptiles

for an animal which is so heavily dependant on its sense of taste, i don't see how using things like eucalyptus/menthol can possibly be a pleasant experience for a snake, more likely its an horrific experience for them, and considering the rather weak (and debatable) effects it has on mucus...I just cant see any good reason to put an animal through that.


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## shaunyboy

AilsaM said:


> Am no use at all being new to snake keeping but am wondering how something so strong as Vicks (meant for humans) can be used in any way shape or form on reptiles? :gasp:
> 
> I mean even I find the fumes from vicks quite strong, so can you imagine the little lungs of a snake breathing in these fumes or absorbing it through their skin :gasp:


it's an old tried and tested method that has a good success rate in the early stages of a respiratory infection (as long as you catch it quick enough)

there's been a fair amount of threads about it on here over the years


cheers shaun


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## shaunyboy

shaunbob said:


> im just using it to aid the antibiotics.. rather than "curing" it.


to aid antibiotics and for a couple of weeks after the course of antibiotics has been completed.....

i use an nebuliser with diluted F10 250:1 to aid the antibiotics...

that makes sure the infections being treated from inside the lungs as well as from the bloodstream

hitting it on two fronts



cheers shaun


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## wilkinss77

CloudForest said:


> eucalyptus oil is known to be highly toxic to many animals, I would be very cautious about using any product which contained it treat reptiles
> 
> for an animal which is so heavily dependant on its sense of taste, i don't see how using things like eucalyptus/menthol can possibly be a pleasant experience for a snake, more likely its an horrific experience for them, and considering the rather weak (and debatable) effects it has on mucus...I just cant see any good reason to put an animal through that.


but if you read some of the posts, it's a tried & tested method that's known to work, & without ill effects.


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## CloudForest

wilkinss77 said:


> but if you read some of the posts, it's a tried & tested method that's known to work, & without ill effects.


there is also one which ended in fatality..


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## fishboy

Why would anyone expose a snake to something as strong as Vicks which contains many ingredients extracted and derived from wood oils when many species can have sensitivities to wood phenols and such. 

Take it to a qualified vet if it's sick.


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## TaxMonkey

wilkinss77 said:


> but if you read some of the posts, it's a tried & tested method that's known to work, & without ill effects.


What I can't understand is as Vicks vaporub has no antibacterial properties whatsoever how can it possibly cure an infection?

I can understand it might help clear congestion caused by an RI, but thats not even close to the same as curing it surely?


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## Dr3d

TaxMonkey said:


> What I can't understand is as Vicks vaporub has no antibacterial properties whatsoever how can it possibly cure an infection?
> 
> I can understand it might help clear congestion caused by an RI, but thats not even close to the same as curing it surely?


 Your correct it is only to aid clearing of congestion. Using F10 as Shaun has written below helps kill the infection : victory:



shaunyboy said:


> to aid antibiotics and for a couple of weeks after the course of antibiotics has been completed.....
> 
> i use an nebuliser with diluted F10 250:1 to aid the antibiotics...
> 
> that makes sure the infections being treated from inside the lungs as well as from the bloodstream
> 
> hitting it on two fronts


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## fishboy

*Vicks VapoRub: The Chest Report* 
Camphor concerns aside, researchers say there is no science to back up the claim that Vicks VapoRub makes it easier to breathe. 
In fact, putting Vicks VapoRub directly under the nose, as opposed to rubbing it on the chest, may actually make it harder to breathe, according to results from a study published in the journal _Chest._ In children under age 2, this could result in an increase in mucus and congestion. 
_****8220;We showed in the lab that Vicks VapoRub produced changes consistent with inflammation and increased mucus in animals with pre-existing airway inflammation similar to that seen with a respiratory infection,***8221;*_ says Bruce K. Rubin, MD, MBA, chair of the department of pediatrics at Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine in Richmond. 
Dr. Rubin and his colleagues tested the effects of Vicks VapoRub after treating a young girl who was brought to the emergency room with breathing problems after having Vicks VapoRub placed under her nose. Rubin said he has heard of similar accounts. 
Other studies have shown that menthol, one of the ingredients of Vicks VapoRub, may also make it harder to breathe, despite creating a ***8220;cooling***8221; sensation that feels like easier breathing. 
***8220;Although [Vicks VaporRub] does not [open you up], it does trigger receptors that make the brain believe that your nose is more open and it is easier to breathe,***8221; says Rubin. 



The Vicks VapoRub Debate - Cold and Flu Center - EverydayHealth.com


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## CloudForest

/\ exactly, it has never been proven to do what is claimed...and note that all adverts for it (depending on local advertising laws) are quite careful to make their claims subjective, rather than quantitative and provable (eg "your airways will _feel_ clearer" or "it can help with congestion" - how does it help with congestion? well, if it makes you feel like its helping, then regardless of whether or not it actually is doing something, the claim is not misleading enough to be considered false advertising)

theres not allot of info about in relation to reptiles, but the post above where someones snake died after being treated with it, is not the first one I've read


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## wilkinss77

CloudForest said:


> there is also one which ended in fatality..


but that was using F10, not vicks.



fishboy said:


> Why would anyone expose a snake to something as strong as Vicks which contains many ingredients extracted and derived from wood oils when many species can have sensitivities to wood phenols and such.
> 
> Take it to a qualified vet if it's sick.


because many have tried it & claim it works?



CloudForest said:


> /\ exactly, it has never been proven to do what is claimed...and note that all adverts for it (depending on local advertising laws) are quite careful to make their claims subjective, rather than quantitative and provable (eg "your airways will _feel_ clearer" or "it can help with congestion" - how does it help with congestion? well, if it makes you feel like its helping, then regardless of whether or not it actually is doing something, the claim is not misleading enough to be considered false advertising)
> 
> theres not allot of info about in relation to reptiles, but the post above where someones snake died after being treated with it, is not the first one I've read


but the snake that died wasn't being treated with vicks.


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## TaxMonkey

Carpetsnotrugs said:


> ...
> 
> 1. F10 disinfectant through a reptifogger into a receptacle of some sort
> 2. Vicks vaporub+eucalyptus oil into boiling water and placed in tub out of the patients reach.
> 
> Believing the first to be the better option (vaporub+eucalyptus had a bit of holistic feel to me), I ordered a reptifogger overnight but the f10 earliest arrival was at least a week* so I decided to try the vapolyptus treatment.* I boiled water added vicks vaposteam(same product contains eucalyptus oil already and is designed for steam application)





wilkinss77 said:


> but that was using F10, not vicks.
> 
> because many have tried it & claim it works?
> 
> but the snake that died wasn't being treated with vicks.


Wrong see above


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## wilkinss77

TaxMonkey said:


> Wrong see above


ok, my bad. but there seem to be more successful treatments than fatalities. don't forget, even accepted reptile treatments sometimes end in fatalities- callingtons mite treatments for example. & i've even had 2 lizards die after being wormed by a vet, while the other 8 treated were fine.


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## TaxMonkey

Except it can't possibly have been successful as there is nothing in it that can cure an infection. Even the manufacturers only claim it helps clear congestion not infections. 

The scientific study Fishboy posted about suggest not only does it not do what the manufacturers claim but it can actually make things worse.

I would venture that those people who think they've had success with it either

a) were mistaken and there was no Respiratory Infection present in the first place

or 

b) they were lucky and the snakes own immune system was able to fight it off


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## CloudForest

of course all treatments have risks, you have to weigh up the risk against the benefit, but given that there is no proven benefit, and there is a mortality risk, i don't see how the benefits outweigh the risks...especially when F10 is beneficial, and doesn't have the same risks attached


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## Gregg M

Really the best thing to do is completely avoid RIs. This involves proper husbandry and not buying reptiles without first checking them over. RIs are VERY easy to avoid. I have not had a single reptile in my care come down with an RI in well over 15 years.

These home remedies are hit or miss at best and are not a cure. Even a trip to the vet may be useless. The problem is, antibiotics are always given to a snake with an RI. Antibiotics do not cure or fix all RIs. Antibiotics will not fix an RI that is caused by viral or fungal infections. A swab should be done to determine what is causing the RI. Without one, a vet is just shooting in the dark.

Personally, from my experience, RIs are easily sorted by providing proper husbandry in a stress free environment. Given the right temps and humidity without being poked and prodded all the time goes a long way when treating RIs. Raising basking temps are a great
start. Most microbes that cause RIs do not thrive in the heat. Snakes that are sick or have a parasite load will seek out high temperatures to bask at. There is a reason for it.


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## CloudForest

not only are Vets shooting in the dark by treating all RI's with antibiotics, but they are eroding the effectiveness of antibiotics...the day when all current antibiotics are useless, isn't as far off as people imagine


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## Carpetsnotrugs

I'm not arguing it's possible effectiveness. Obviously many of you have tried it and seen good results. I'm making an attempt to put relevant information where people will see it. If I had read that someone tried this and their snake promptly died, I think I would have approached it in a different light or maybe I would have done something differently and my animal would still be alive. All I'm saying is be very cautious with your animals when treating them in this manner because just as it has proven to help many snakes symptoms it has now also been shown to be an instigating factor in the death of one.


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## marie_k

CloudForest said:


> not only are Vets shooting in the dark by treating all RI's with antibiotics, but they are eroding the effectiveness of antibiotics...the day when all current antibiotics are useless, isn't as far off as people imagine


Problem is most people refuse to pay for culture so either vets have to guess or leave the snake without treatment. Neither is great! Last time someone told me that the vets should pay for the tests if the owner didn't want to but I don't feel that is a realistic expectation.
Vicks isn't of much use - it can improve airflow in the nostrils (according to manufacturer claims anyway) but does nothing for the rest of the respiratory tract where the infection actually is.Add to this the multiple compounds toxic to snakes and you are not going to help! It cannot help clearing mucus as claimed earlier as it has no effects on mucus composition (and can't force snakes to change their cells to have mucus clearing apparatus like mammals have...). F10 I happily use as it has effects on bacteria, fungi and viruses, the saline dilutant in small particules via a nebuliser helps make mucus less sticky and it doesn't harm the animals.
Marie


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## CDF

I just had this problem. Cornsnake wouldn't eat goung on 3 months. Having barely money for rent at this time, I wasnt prepared to see a vet. So I tried all kinds of recomendations. Increased heat, humidity, provided more hide space and a larger soaking water bowl, soaked him in warm water baths, gently massaged his bowels, and eventually tried a couple 10 min sessions with the vicks and the double tub but nothing was taking effect.

At this point I suspected an RI to be the culprit. He had shown very few symptoms - occasionally opened his mouth, and when he did it was at least twice in a row. He also let out an occasional lil sneezish sound.

Finally, as a last ditch effort, I decided that if he was dying, I could experiment with the Vicks. I smeared a thin layer over a corner of his enclosure roof where the venhilation was. The first couple nights I applied such a thin layer it was barely percievable. Last night I upped the antee and smeared a 2-pea sized drop over the vent.

For the first time in just over three months, my very active, very skinny corn ate a small mouse. I dont know if this long exposure to the vicks was safe, and I can update in a couple weeks on his status, but I am very relieved to see something make a difference. (Tbc I cleared it off after he ate, and it could just be timing of getting the basking point to start heating over 95 for the last couple weeks.)

Hope this helps someone else! Again, this exposure is not something I necessarily approve of, and it was a desperate last effort. I don't recommend it be anyone's first course of action.


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## Zincubus

I successfully treated a RI in a Royal many years ago .

Just used my old mum’s portable neb ...to nebulise a very weak solution ( 1:250 parts water )of F10 ..


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## Swindinian

From my understanding, the active ingredient in Vicks vapour is an irritant, so whilst it can induce a temporary physiological reaction, a positive outcome is likely just luck.

F10 seems to be a more legitimate application.

Digestion is metabolically a burden so unless a snake is really malnourished, I would aim to restore health before feeding.

Best of luck,

Andy


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## CDF

I agreed with this conclusion and purchased F10. Only my nebulizer was older and broke 10 minutes into the first treatment. Is there another way to diffuse the disinfectant into the air? The label on this stuff is way too serious to play with direct exposure of any sort.


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## Zincubus

CDF said:


> I agreed with this conclusion and purchased F10. Only my nebulizer was older and broke 10 minutes into the first treatment. Is there another way to diffuse the disinfectant into the air? The label on this stuff is way too serious to play with direct exposure of any sort.


Maybe buy a new , small portable one .

This will do the job 


















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