# Starter venom



## Kirkgrey (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't have a dwal and don't think I will for a few years yet. But I have a question on what would be the best starter hot. I take Montpelier as a given but what else would ruin your day/week but is not likely to ruin your life this may sound stupid to hot keepers but I'm just interested many thanks


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

They all hurt, some you may just lose a bit of pride and others a fair bit more.

No such thing as a starter snake. But the smaller it is the easier it is to handle and avoid non-feeders as this can lead to sausage finger syndrome.

small vipers are fairly easy


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

Get mentoring first, then work with as many species as possible, in my opinion, white lip vipers are a good first starter, not because their venom is weak, is because they ride the hook very well, most trims are good for that, id like avoid purps anyway. 

I have been keeping a good length of time and I always disagree with people who suggest copperheads as first, they are psychotic, I honestly prefer working with naja than them. I have brought in a few for friends of mine and I have kept them for a decent length of time before handing them over - don't get me wrong, they are savage feeders, but do not sit on a hook.

My two cents.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

As Razorscale said get mentored!! That's the first step, Then got to your local council etc. I don't keep hits so don't rely on my info, It's all from my own research. As far as species goes Copperheads are good (as far as i know), Any small weak(ish) venom producing viper. Such as a Saharan horned viper. *Avoid * hots like naja's fast moving and striking species, Same goes for crotalus's Strong venom in some cases and fast striking. Start of small if you go down the venomous route, Personally i don't keep hots..a such but from the keepers I've talk to they are very rewarding snakes to keep. Just do your research, Get mentored and be careful (well that goes with out saying)


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## Razorscale (Feb 22, 2010)

venpmking said:


> As Razorscale said get mentored!! That's the first step, Then got to your local council etc. I don't keep hits so don't rely on my info, It's all from my own research. As far as species goes Copperheads are good (as far as i know), Any small weak(ish) venom producing viper. Such as a Saharan horned viper. *Avoid * hots like naja's fast moving and striking species, Same goes for crotalus's Strong venom in some cases and fast striking. Start of small if you go down the venomous route, Personally i don't keep hots..a such but from the keepers I've talk to they are very rewarding snakes to keep. Just do your research, Get mentored and be careful (well that goes with out saying)


Copperheads are NOT good starters, maybe in the US because AV is so easily obtained as they are very common over there, copperhead venom will result in loss of finger if a person gets bitten there and if correct AV is not applied quickly. 
Please don't comment if you have never worked with such a snake and say its a good first starter. I'm sure we can all agree we do not want another minty on this forum.
White lips are perfect as they generally do not end up mutating you in a result of a bite. They sit on a hook and are calmer than copperheads, much easier to work with. (unless all the 8 copperheads I have had in the past where just that 1% of psycho nutjobs)
Crotalus make a much better starter than agkistrodon. Venom strength shouldn't have to be the main factor in what you get or not, a bite is a bite at the end of the day. Crotalus give a lot of warning before they bite, hence "rattlesnake" they are a little flighty as youngsters but grow out of it as they grow.

P.s A friend of mine was bitten by a copperhead many years ago on his pinkie finger, he lost the tip, it rotted off. Another friend of mine and his wife where both bitten by white lip tree vipers, they suffered nothing more than swelling and some bruising.

I'm far from an expert, I am just sharing my personal views and stories first hand from close friends.


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## DaOG (Jun 6, 2013)

Does it really matter what you start with? Aslong as you don't do over the top with a gabby or a king etc. Just make sure you are prepared with the training and have experience with that species.


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

DaOG said:


> Does it really matter what you start with? Aslong as you don't do over the top with a gabby or a king etc. Just make sure you are prepared with the training and have experience with that species.


Exactly when i was looking into keeping hots, I was talking to my local reptile shop's venomous handler. And he told me to start of with some thing small ie a Saharan horned viper (a species i was going to keep) From the keepers I've talked to about keeping hots and on venomous forums, That coppers heads make 'good' starters. But their are not any true starter venomous. Just go for what you would like as stated above don't go for a king, Mamba or a gabby for a first hot. Razorscale i don't keep true venomous aside from my mangrove (boiga), But this info i'm posting is from keepers I've talked to and that's what they've told me. But i do have intentions of owing hots.

And i'm never going to be like VL!!! I've had plenty of dealings with him. If i'm wrong then i'll agree, But this is all from my own research from other keepers.


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## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

Montpellier are far from a good starter hot , their venom is weak but the are one of , if not the fastest snakes there is . You cannot use a hook they're useless for montes . Feeding response is crazy , saying that the make good display snakes as they are very active throughout the day and very inquisitive .


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## Tim Hallam (Aug 17, 2010)

forget toxicity most of the time it's irrelevant anyway, go for a species that has simple husbandry requirements a good solid rodent feeder that tolerates your learning curve. larger rattlesnakes, most Cobras , Puff Adders and some European Vipers are good - Gaboons , Rhinos , Mambas , Taipans and tree Vipers are bad


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

venpmking said:


> Exactly when i was looking into keeping hots, I was talking to my local reptile shop's venomous handler. And he told me to start of with some thing small ie a Saharan horned viper (a species i was going to keep) From the keepers I've talked to about keeping hots and on venomous forums, That coppers heads make 'good' starters. But their are not any true starter venomous. Just go for what you would like as stated above don't go for a king, Mamba or a gabby for a first hot. Razorscale i don't keep true venomous aside from my mangrove (boiga), But this info i'm posting is from keepers I've talked to and that's what they've told me. But i do have intentions of owing hots.
> 
> And i'm never going to be like VL!!! I've had plenty of dealings with him. If i'm wrong then i'll agree, But this is all from my own research from other keepers.


 I'm with Razorscale about the copperheads. They're a lot more tricky to handle most rattlers and tree vipers. and they far more willing to bite. What I think happens, is people read about their lower toxicity, their simple husbandry requirements and their popularity, and think they're a good starter.

Truth is, they can be a lot more difficult to handle than their more toxic relatives (rattlers) and are quick to strike/bite. Hooking them can be a challenge too, as they tend to slide off the hook, dart around the room and wriggle around a lot. You'll be much better off looking into what species you like, and then choosing the most appropriate species for your abilities.

Horned vipers could be a good starter. They're reasonably small, not too aggressive, not usually deadly, and they do pretty well when left alone. Great little snakes too, a lot of fun to keep.


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## Lachesis melanocephala (Feb 8, 2013)

Just don't go near the obvious bad 'starter' venomous snakes, like Mambas, some Lanceheads, Tapains, Kings etc.

But it's what you're comfortable handling. There is no point in you getting a WDB because I said so, but you're scared of it. 

Getting some hands on experience will allow you to see what you're comfortable with. But that isn't always possible. 

My first was a Gaboon, and I know a couple of other people that had Gaboon's as their first. 

I don't see the problem with copperheads personally, they're a relatively small snake, and you've got to be doing something seriously wrong to get bitten whilst handling - in my opinion. 

Start with a feeding yearling (or younger if it's feeding), of whatever species you are intending to keep, and one that's easy to keep alive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## venpmking (Aug 16, 2013)

coldestblood said:


> I'm with Razorscale about the copperheads. They're a lot more tricky to handle most rattlers and tree vipers. and they far more willing to bite. What I think happens, is people read about their lower toxicity, their simple husbandry requirements and their popularity, and think they're a good starter.
> 
> Truth is, they can be a lot more difficult to handle than their more toxic relatives (rattlers) and are quick to strike/bite. Hooking them can be a challenge too, as they tend to slide off the hook, dart around the room and wriggle around a lot. You'll be much better off looking into what species you like, and then choosing the most appropriate species for your abilities.
> 
> Horned vipers could be a good starter. They're reasonably small, not too aggressive, not usually deadly, and they do pretty well when left alone. Great little snakes too, a lot of fun to keep.



Right i'm the sort of guy to realize i'm wrong. But i was just basing it all on the fact on what people like house of venom (forgot the blokes name :bash And my local reptile shop.


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## Kirkgrey (Aug 25, 2011)

Many thanks people I had a lot to think over prior to posting this thread and you have given me more to think about I would just like to say I am a long way from going in this direction I need much more experience and skill I will be looking to getting some mentoring in the near future to see if I can and want to work with hots again many thanks


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I personally think aboreal vipers are a pain, because they wrap them selves around anything and climb up the hook.

My N.kaouthia was really predictable, my C.atrox was incredily chilled out. Different snakes even of the same species have different temperments, you just have to be as prepared as possible. Day to day maintenance is not that difficult its when you need to get hands on that problems can occur.


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## cerastes86 (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't see the problem with Gaboons all the ones I have worked with are generally slow moving easily hooked with two hooks and apart from a lot of hissing they haven't shown too much aggression. 

I haven't done anything with venomous for a number of years now but I started working with Agkistrodon bilineatus taylori, which was a bit of a mistake because it was a wriggly little bugger that didn't sit on a hook at all and had a habit of just shooting back into the viv. I personally found Cerastes cerastes was the best because they are generally quite laid back, can be a bit of a pain to hook due to the way they move but with some patience alright.


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