# earthworms as live food



## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

hey guys just back from walking the dog and when i was out there were hundres of earthworms eveywhere as it has been bucketing down all day.

but it got me wondering why they dont get used for live food or rather why people dont use them as live food.

is it because there not good nutritionally or whatever.

so has anyone used them or still use them as part of a diet for there lizards as im sure most ground dwelloing animals will come across them in the wild and could imagine them being passedf up really


any thoughts?:2thumb:


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## Chris18 (Mar 22, 2009)

Yep, i've used them when i had Red eyed crocodile skinks
They didn't eat them as they were fussy buggers but i can imagine quite a few other reptiles would go crazy for them
Just be careful if you have deep substrate, they'll be lost in seconds so will probably be best fed from the hand.
You can get them from some online shops but can't remember where, but if you get them from the wild, wash them and then feed them for a week to get out any nasty stuff and have them full of goodness


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## winaldo (Dec 8, 2010)

hi i fed some to my water dragons who loved them to .
but i bought them online as i got told dont use ones from outside as could have been in soil where stuff was used weed killer ect u think thats true or i could use the ones from outside ?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

well i have saw them on livefood sites but iv have wondered why iv not herd anyone using them before apart from a few monitor owners.

also i had thought about if you are digging for them if you fed them up for a few weeks wounlntd that get rid of any bugs or that


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## winaldo (Dec 8, 2010)

i would not like to say kirky as dont really know 
but i did wonder myself the ones i buy online whats to say there not from someones garden u really dont know 
you tend to go with what people say really do u ?
but yeah i did buy tub water dragons ate few but most off the tub i just threw out at the end


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

winaldo said:


> i would not like to say kirky as dont really know
> but i did wonder myself the ones i buy online whats to say there not from someones garden u really dont know
> you tend to go with what people say really do u ?
> but yeah i did buy tub water dragons ate few but most off the tub i just threw out at the end


lol thats what i thought aswell im not sure if it would be worth risking it but you would imagine when they come to live food they would be bred forthat just that like everything else.

anyway cheers for that guys ill hopefully get some more replys :2thumb:


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## Melonhelmet (Nov 11, 2008)

Some people I know use ones from bait shops for larger amphibians (African Bullfrogs, PacMan Frogs), and I know another guy who feeds ones from a bait shop to his Horned Mountain Dragon as a treat now and again.

I don't know how I would feed about feeding these to my animals though. They aren't really raised for feeding to animals, only to be used to catch fish/compost uses. Who knows what they could have in/on them. As for ones from outdoors, I'd be too worried about them having toxins, ect in them from runoff and whatnot.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

My blue Tongue likes worms as does my redfoot tortoise. I've fed them to various frogs in the past and slowworms love them.


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## winaldo (Dec 8, 2010)

the forums are great are they everyone with diff answears ect lol 
but i do see all the points here 
like one person said not sure about outside ones cause u dont know where they have been or might have ect 
but mine lizards ate them when i bought so will feed them again worms sometime


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## Tadashii (Oct 4, 2010)

As well as weedkiller and other pesticides I'd be worried about toxoplasmosis. I don't know if this can affect reptiles, but I'd want to be sure before I fed any to my pets. According to online sources, they wriggle a lot so you'd think lizards would love them, but they're mainly used for amphibians.


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

I do it Win. When they are out like that from a heavy rain. I harvest from my own yard. I have a park backing onto the yard and neighbours on either side with small kids. Earthworms dont travel long distances and remain fairly close to where they were laid....I doubt if through life they get more than 30 square feet in their lives. 

I also garden alot and keep a little container next to me when doing so to gather bugs, worms and grubs, snails. They are a great feeder for hydration as they are 90% water. 

I have yet to note any health problems in doing so. All the rainforest and temperate reptiles will take them quite willingly as mentioned by others. No outbreaks of ill health or worms.

Pat


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

cheers for that pat digging for my own aint gonna happen in my own garden because im sure my neighbour holds his own version of the chelsea garden show so i woudnt like to think what he is putting into the ground lol but its something im ight give a go with from a live food supplier.
also im asuming as there mostly water they wouldnt be good for a regular part of a diet ? 

cheers for the help though :2thumb:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Not true.........they are a great feeder for that reason. 

They will keep the reptile well hydrated and they are great for fat free protein. They are recommended for reptiles with gout. I say if they are the feeder of choice for helping to control the disease we should be adding them more regularly. 

A Nearly Perfect Reptile and Amphibian Food: Rearing and Using Earthworms | That Reptile Blog

But for you ..... not possible. But do try commercial for sure. 

Apologize for the wrong name the first time too.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Bamboozoo said:


> Not true.........they are a great feeder for that reason.
> 
> They will keep the reptile well hydrated and they are great for fat free protein. They are recommended for reptiles with gout. I say if they are the feeder of choice for helping to control the disease we should be adding them more regularly.
> 
> ...


legend:notworthy: thanks for that again im going away to order some food just now anyway so ill get a box of earthworms in there aswell to give them a try. my leo i dont think she will eat them cos she is funny with any worms at all but i know my beardie will at least try them lol 

cheers for the info aswell the link was a good help : victory:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Ah.....backtracking.... my own desert lizards dont eat them. I think they are so far from what they would find as a food source??? I dont know but temperate and rainforest love them. For a beardie I would go for a red worm. They are much smaller. If they work then I would try the larger varieties.

He has a lot of bug info. He is one I have bookmarked.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Bamboozoo said:


> Ah.....backtracking.... my own desert lizards dont eat them. I think they are so far from what they would find as a food source??? I dont know but temperate and rainforest love them. For a beardie I would go for a red worm. They are much smaller. If they work then I would try the larger varieties.
> 
> He has a lot of bug info. He is one I have bookmarked.


:lol2: aww well there ordered now if they dont eat them its not the end of the world as they both get quite a vairied diet it just would of been nice to have another option as a feeder. 

also it looks like you have put a link in there but its not there lol

but again thanks for the help :no1:


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

I cannot find it right now but I've got a total nutritional output for lobworms ( the type that come to the surface on wet nights). When I find it I shall post the details. What I do know offhand is that they are massively high in calcium and I used to feed them to my gravid water dragons who loved them.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Barlow said:


> I cannot find it right now but I've got a total nutritional output for lobworms ( the type that come to the surface on wet nights). When I find it I shall post the details. What I do know offhand is that they are massively high in calcium and I used to feed them to my gravid water dragons who loved them.


that would be awesome dude any info would be super :no1:


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## Blick (Feb 9, 2011)

I've just ordered some from livefood.co.uk, will probably arrive tomorrow so i'll be sure to post if my Yemen likes them!


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Blick said:


> I've just ordered some from livefood.co.uk, will probably arrive tomorrow so i'll be sure to post if my Yemen likes them!


cheers for that :2thumb: its also where i ordered mine aswell hopefully see that tomorrow but ill feed them for a day or 2 before i feed them to my beardie


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## Blick (Feb 9, 2011)

Well. Worms arrived, pleased. Decent quantity, suitable size. Fed to my yemen who ate one. The following 3 he spat out and didnt look impressed! Think I'll have stick to other live foods!


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

funny you should say that i gave my beardie some this morning and he devoured them lol so ill try my leo tonight with them and see the result lol


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

i use earth worms in my vivs to help airate the soil for the plants but the darts go for em if they poke there heads out the soil! however being dartfrogs there far to small to eat an earth worms and they soon give up after the initial strike


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Kirky ~ great for you as I havent had that success with beardies. 

Sam have you tried the redworms in your terrariums?


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> funny you should say that i gave my beardie some this morning and he devoured them lol so ill try my leo tonight with them and see the result lol


Thats interesting. let us know if your Leo eats them???

Phil


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## tracy pearman (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm watching this thread with interest. I've just become the proud owner orf an 8 week beardie, and as luck would have it we already have 2 full size wormeries. They are the proper womery worms in there (red I think) they aren't normal earthworms and are feed kitchen scraps and newspaper. I just can't image that they are very nutritious though, I'm abit scared to try one on my girl with her being so young.


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

Bamboozoo said:


> Kirky ~ great for you as I havent had that success with beardies.
> 
> Sam have you tried the redworms in your terrariums?


i have Eisenia foetida, Eisenia andrei, Eisenia hortensis and Dendrodrilus rubidus in my viv whats the lattin name for red worm?


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Lauging Sam, I wouldn't have a clue. I'd never be able to spell anything correctly if I attempted to use latin.  

Hey Tracy...they are actually pretty good feeders. You can make them better by adding in fish flakes too which they love. 

A Nearly Perfect Reptile and Amphibian Food: Rearing and Using Earthworms | That Reptile Blog


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

i have read they are very very good. and there is no need to dust them with calcium either.....


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## tracy pearman (Mar 14, 2011)

sambridge15 said:


> i have Eisenia foetida, Eisenia andrei, Eisenia hortensis and Dendrodrilus rubidus in my viv whats the lattin name for red worm?


Reds are Eisenia Andrei. I have those, tigers (eisenia fetida) and dendrobaena. I tried my lil girl with them today, she ate one or two. Not overly excited by them but its early days, and not eating alot anyway.


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## tracy pearman (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks for the calcium and fish food tips!


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Phil75 said:


> Thats interesting. let us know if your Leo eats them???
> 
> Phil


i will mate i dont hold out hope for my leo as she is fussy and it usually nothing but locusts that she will eat but she does eat the odd morio and cricket aswell so fingers crossed but ill report back tomorrow lol

and bamboozoo you can take some of the credit i wouldnt of got them if it wasnt for the info you gave :no1:


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## donia (Apr 15, 2009)

I've tried my Leo's on earthworms in the past, and at first they seemed really interested - ran up to them when they moved, and went to eat them....but they just spat them out again! Then repeated the process several times before getting bored and leaving the poor near dead worms........So the newts got them instead. 

I believe worms to be a great food source, but can't seem to get my Leo's to eat them. I also get mine from my back garden, where I know they will not have pesticides or anything else nasty chemical-wise on them. I don't believe that shop bought ones would be as nutritious. 

Did your (OP's) Leo take to the worms in the end?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

donia said:


> I've tried my Leo's on earthworms in the past, and at first they seemed really interested - ran up to them when they moved, and went to eat them....but they just spat them out again! Then repeated the process several times before getting bored and leaving the poor near dead worms........So the newts got them instead.
> 
> I believe worms to be a great food source, but can't seem to get my Leo's to eat them. I also get mine from my back garden, where I know they will not have pesticides or anything else nasty chemical-wise on them. I don't believe that shop bought ones would be as nutritious.
> 
> Did your (OP's) Leo take to the worms in the end?


iv not tried her yet with them that will be tonight.so fingers crossed as for nutrional iv had them since thursday i think i think it was i got them and they have been gutloading since then and the amount of gutloading that they have eaten im sure they will be fine : victory:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

@Tracy 

A couple every few days will get her used to them Tracy and they will help as she gets older. Earthworms help with kidney/liver issues and gout.
Keep her on a few if you can.

@Kirky...whoohooo!


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Guys,

What do you think we used to feed our lizards on before crickets came on the market. All my Lacertids love them. I've been gardening today and found loads of big long ones just right for my Lepida, they go crazy for them!


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## darin (Sep 9, 2009)

*worms and snails*

i use worms and snails i get these from my own garden i keep a few bits of wod in the corner and the snails hide and breed there my lizards love them


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## Hamish198 (Apr 20, 2010)

I order tiger and dendrobaena from Ebay and feed them to my Bosc and my fish tanks, just look up compost worms and you should find them, not done it for a little while as I was concentrating on getting my roaches up and running, but will def get back to it soon as I think they're a great live food.


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Hamish198 said:


> I order tiger and dendrobaena from Ebay and feed them to my Bosc and my fish tanks, just look up compost worms and you should find them, not done it for a little while as I was concentrating on getting my roaches up and running, but will def get back to it soon as I think they're a great live food.


Must not feed compost worms, they are toxic!


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## mrcarlxx (May 1, 2009)

jeweled lady said:


> Must not feed compost worms, they are toxic!


are they? any reason why?

i will keep that in mind


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

jeweled lady said:


> Must not feed compost worms, they are toxic!


 
Whats the difference between compost worms and the ones you get out of your garden??

Phil


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## Hamish198 (Apr 20, 2010)

jeweled lady said:


> Must not feed compost worms, they are toxic!


I now I'm the third in line to ask this but can you tell us why they are toxic and how you know ? I'm not doubting you just interested as I've never heard this before and have never had side effects appearing in my Bosc or fish from them.

many thanks,
Hamish.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

well last tried my leo on them and she turned up her nose at them and chased down a locust so not the best star but ill try her another few times with them yet they wont go to waste cos my beardie loved them.

as for them being toxic i assume the poster ment ones out the garden could be toxic incase the have been in contact with any crap in a garden. well im asuming anyway:lol2:


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

I occaisionally use earthworms from our garden as a treat for my plated, eyed lizards, pink & blue tongues, my ackies don't seem to keen however, we don't put anything nasty in our garden so happy that they are full of juicy goodness.

I have seen something on the forum previously about a certain worm that should not be used, i may be wrong but i seem to recall it is a commercially sold worm that you can buy to add to your compost heap, can't swear by this but is does ring a bell.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> well last tried my leo on them and she turned up her nose at them and chased down a locust so not the best star but ill try her another few times with them yet they wont go to waste cos my beardie loved them.
> 
> as for them being toxic i assume the poster ment ones out the garden could be toxic incase the have been in contact with any crap in a garden. well im asuming anyway:lol2:


 I guess it was like hamburger or steak and the steak played hard to get., and got nailed anyway.

I like the idea of worms anyway, its more British! 

How big were the worms???

Phil


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

Phil75 said:


> Whats the difference between compost worms and the ones you get out of your garden??
> 
> Phil


The difference is they are a different kind of worm and usually more red in colour. Ordinary earthworms are greyish with redish front end. I don't know what it is that makes them toxic, this is all I know. If you dug into a manure heap you would see plenty of them.


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

The compost worms have been used for a decade by many without cause for alarm. (more). The earthworm article I pass forward is a red worm colony used by Frank Indiviglio ~ over 20 years with Broncz Zoo. He has an extensive bug background and creates living bio environments for zoo exhibits. 

Though, like many other bugs it has a defence mechanism that can taste bad to some while others will think they are grand.

Compost worms are fine to feed to our pets. 

A Nearly Perfect Reptile and Amphibian Food: Rearing and Using Earthworms | That Reptile Blog


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## Hamish198 (Apr 20, 2010)

I was fairly sure that was the case as my Morris is fine and dandy, could there be some thing else that is causing the misunderstanding ?

Hamish.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Phil75 said:


> I guess it was like hamburger or steak and the steak played hard to get., and got nailed anyway.
> 
> I like the idea of worms anyway, its more British!
> 
> ...


hey mate all worms seem to be about 2/3 inches long average. there a bit bigger than i thought they would be : victory:


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## jeweled lady (Aug 25, 2009)

I am not sure where I heard or read it. Having fed ordinary earth worms and the big long worms to my lacertids for years, I was surprised but if the red ones are OK after all, I will try them and see if the lizards are interested.


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> hey mate all worms seem to be about 2/3 inches long average. there a bit bigger than i thought they would be : victory:


 
2 or 3 inches sound a bit big. Maybe a 1 inch worm would be ok for a leo, who knows, might try breeding some worms im told its easy,

Phiil


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## Hamish198 (Apr 20, 2010)

if its too big.....take a knife....and make two


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## Phil75 (Nov 29, 2010)

Hamish198 said:


> if its too big.....take a knife....and make two


 
lol would have to hope they kept wriggleing lon enough to get eaton.

Phil


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Phil75 said:


> 2 or 3 inches sound a bit big. Maybe a 1 inch worm would be ok for a leo, who knows, might try breeding some worms im told its easy,
> 
> Phiil


well thats what the average is but there are smaller and theres a lot bigger aswell my leo only gets the smaller ones and she still aint taking them


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I get a couple of tubs of worms from the fishing tackle shop every month. 

I usually pick out the worms and give them a quick wash before offering them to my Sungazers, i usually offer them far more than they could ever eat so that some burrow down into the grass turf of the enclosure. These help the turf and after a heavy spray of water, appear at a later date for the Sungazers to feast on. They love them.


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## vicky.beach (Oct 27, 2010)

Just got some today as my chinese water dragon wont eat locusts or crickets:bash: would it be best to cut them in half? because my water dragon is quite small hes 6 months old..

also what is used for gutloading them??


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I get a couple of tubs of worms from the fishing tackle shop every month.
> 
> I usually pick out the worms and give them a quick wash before offering them to my Sungazers, i usually offer them far more than they could ever eat so that some burrow down into the grass turf of the enclosure. These help the turf and after a heavy spray of water, appear at a later date for the Sungazers to feast on. They love them.


i had just wondered why no one really mentioned anything about using them before when there everywhere around us so why not really 


vicky.beach said:


> Just got some today as my chinese water dragon wont eat locusts or crickets:bash: would it be best to cut them in half? because my water dragon is quite small hes 6 months old..
> 
> also what is used for gutloading them??


for gutloading them i just used some veg and they got through it quickly but i tend to use fresh veg for all my gutloading.
also for size i tried to go about morio size for my leo so sifted through the lot because they were all different sizes


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## Panthraz (Feb 20, 2011)

I think I might try my BTS on a few earthworms, he certainly loves his snails. 

I guess snails and worms would make up the bulk of his meat diet in the wild. 
Has anyone found any nutrional info about them just out of interest?

Also has anyone found a good supplier?


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Panthraz said:


> I think I might try my BTS on a few earthworms, he certainly loves his snails.
> 
> I guess snails and worms would make up the bulk of his meat diet in the wild.
> Has anyone found any nutrional info about them just out of interest?
> ...


for nutritional value you theres a link a few pages back in this thread and there very good for the reps 

as for supplier i think i used livefood.co.uk : victory:


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## Panthraz (Feb 20, 2011)

kirky1980 said:


> for nutritional value you theres a link a few pages back in this thread


Sorry i'm struggling to find it :surrender: who made the post?


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## Gemstone Dragons (Jul 29, 2009)

My beardies eat them but i wouldnt advise collecting them from outside, you dont know where they have been lol :lol2:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Panthraz said:


> Sorry i'm struggling to find it :surrender: who made the post?


here it is : victory:
A Nearly Perfect Reptile and Amphibian Food: Rearing and Using Earthworms | That Reptile Blog


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## Panthraz (Feb 20, 2011)

kirky1980 said:


> here it is : victory:
> A Nearly Perfect Reptile and Amphibian Food: Rearing and Using Earthworms | That Reptile Blog


Ah ok I did see that one thanks, but was hoping for some more scientific nutritional info: ie. Calcium to phosphate ratio, protein & fat content etc.


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## gray1 (May 24, 2010)

About the toxic worm someone mentioned... I'm not sure that it is in fact toxic or harmful, but the worm has many names e.g. redworm, tiger worm etc. but they're all the same worm, latin name "eisenia fetida".

They give off a foul smelling liquid to put predators off.


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## mrhoyo (Mar 29, 2007)

Any nutritional differences between species? There's a lot of variation in the species available.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk


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## Panthraz (Feb 20, 2011)

mrhoyo said:


> Any nutritional differences between species? There's a lot of variation in the species available.


I would imagine there will be but the most common species that seems to be referred to is _Lumbricus terrestris_ known 
by many different names, depending on your location. In the UK it is what I would consider to be the common earthworm or Lob worm.

As far as nutrition is concerned www.bluetongueskinks.net offer the following dietary information for Nightcrawlers:








As far as Ca ratios are concerned I also managaed to find the following: (_Source_)








So it seems they have an excellent ratio of approx. 1.5:1, are low in fat, have a low ash content and a moderate protein value. 

So based on this they are certainly going to be a welcome addition to my BTS's diet, possibly with a view to setting up my own 
small scale wormery, feeding them on BTS staples. :2thumb:


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks for that ratio there. I wasn't sure what it was myself. None of mine really took to them so most of them ended up in my splendida viv and they seem to be quite keen on them and have been picking them off every now and again


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## Louiza25 (Nov 22, 2010)

Chris18 said:


> You can get them from some online shops but can't remember where, but if you get them from the wild, wash them and then feed them for a week to get out any nasty stuff and have them full of goodness


Hi, I feed my blue tongued skink snails from my garden all the time. Of course I keep them for a week in a moist tupperware container with food to detox them before hand. How would you detox worms? There's loads skirming around my garden and I've collected a few but have NO clue what to do with them, what do they eat? What substrate do they need? 

Any replies will be much appreciated! 
Thanks


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

Louiza25 said:


> Hi, I feed my blue tongued skink snails from my garden all the time. Of course I keep them for a week in a moist tupperware container with food to detox them before hand. How would you detox worms? There's loads skirming around my garden and I've collected a few but have NO clue what to do with them, what do they eat? What substrate do they need?
> 
> Any replies will be much appreciated!
> Thanks


hiya
i would put them on sedge peat with lots of wet leaves on the top (they come to the surface and drag the leaves down) if you wanted to know that they ar edef detoxed then get the livefood cb ones.

this is how i keep mine and they are allways breeding


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## blobby (Nov 6, 2006)

*worms*

:2thumb: i have been feeding earth worms to my sharped rib newt for the last 4 years and hes as healthy as anything bevan:no1:


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## spencerburgo (Dec 1, 2010)

kirky1980 said:


> hey guys just back from walking the dog and when i was out there were hundres of earthworms eveywhere as it has been bucketing down all day.
> 
> but it got me wondering why they dont get used for live food or rather why people dont use them as live food.
> 
> ...


 i collect them by the bucket full, from parks gardens cemetrys, and feed to my salamanders,toads, frogs,:2thumb:

cheers spencer...........


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't bother to 'detox' the proper earthworms; all they are likely to have in their gut is soil and properly rotted material. The 'toxic' worms referred to several times in this thread are compost worms; they tend to feed on actively rott*ing* (as opposed to rott*ed*) material, which can be dodgy. Easiest way to clear them is to keep them on damp fresh grass until they have voided their guts- a couple of days or a week or so. As mentioned above, worms have an almost perfect calcium/phosphorus ratio, and don't need to be dusted at all.


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## Paul112 (Apr 6, 2007)

I've used earthworms quite a lot, especially for turtles which go crazy for them. However, I once offered one of the red compost worms to my slider, and she refused to eat it - which makes sense now that someone's mentioned they give off a nasty substance!

Best,
Paul


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