# False widow hybrid



## Boa Boy (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi all just a quick question, around my house is over run with false widows and house spiders but recently I have been finding over sized falsies in my house, at first I thought they were just realy big females but tonight I found the biggest one yet and after having a closer look I realised this spider is much different in apperence it has the overall apeance of a false widow but has the markings of house spider on the abdemen while keeping the falsie coulering, I was just wondering is there a chance these two spiders might be hybrising?


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

They cant because they belong to 2 different genera


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## luke0227 (May 18, 2010)

How bigs big?


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## Boa Boy (Mar 6, 2009)

luke0227 said:


> How bigs big?


about the size of a medium sized house spider.


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## Hedgewitch (Feb 12, 2008)

Like, any idea of size in cm?

Can you get us a picture?

Are you sure it's not just a _Steatoda nobilis_, _Steatoda grossa_ also has very clear but variable abdomen markings.

And just to back up what Selina said, yeah those two cannot hybridize.


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## luke0227 (May 18, 2010)

Try get us a couple pics mate,
Hybrids defo out the picture but my moneys on s grossa with dark abdominal markings,


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Would it not be more likely it is simply another type of spider?

Photos please


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## luke0227 (May 18, 2010)

GRB said:


> Would it not be more likely it is simply another type of spider?
> 
> Photos please [/QUOTe
> 
> good point, any ideas?


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Well, post me a picture of one and I'll have a bash. 

Might just be _Amaurobius similis_. They get quite large when gravid. 

Kind of hard to guess really, there's a lot of spiders that have features that I suppose could be taken to being similar to Tegenaria or Steatoda.


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

*3 years down the line*

I started noticing False Widows in Salisbury last summer. Actually the first I ever saw, was so huge I didn't think it was a widow. It was the size of them big hairy brown spiders, with relatively small abdomens? (the butt bit, which I will correctly or incorrectly refer to as abdomens for now until corrected should I be wrong). However it had a huge black and white patterned abdomen. It's legs were hairless, red and crabby. It was in an old shed we were breaking apart to clear space to make foundations.

Later, around peoples houses (usually just outside front doors and back doors.) I noticed other, smaller false widows. The types you usually see pictures of. They vary from having red, to brown legs. And this is what I assume the "pure breeds" of the widow are. They are crabby, and they are around the same size, but less compact, as a normal garden spider.

When it comes to hybrids, I've noticed definite blends between garden spiders, and widows. The blends go from, normal false widow body shape, with striped legs, and slightly lighter darks in the abdomen's pattern. And the other variant of striped widows can be almost bone white and black. I've also seen garden spiders with black or red legs and a blend of false widow and garden spider marking (the ridge is a lot paler than others, and the darks are more prominent). Though if you look at the markings of the pure breeds (on google pictures, because I don't trust my garden to procure any this year) there is a feint similarity.

A friend also took a picture of a false widow/woodlouse spider looking hybrid. My room is a basement, and it's housed woodlouse spiders for a long time. I saw a baby one and killed it because it's abdomen was striped! I was like no way are them huge teeth gonna procure venom in my basement. But I probably only delayed the inevitable. So, now I will track picture of that blend, and I'll get some pictures of the different hybrids around town and in my garden in the week.

Only joined because this post inspired me to finally document this shiz


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

*Falsewidow Woodlouse Spider Hybrid*










This was taken by a friend, and sent to me when we spoke about it.


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

*More on the topic*

Salisbury is full of different false widow hybrids. I'll do a photoshoot over the week end.

It's almost as if the whole species is a hybrid. And what if the hybrids can hybrid?


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

It looks like someone else found one of the variants already.

Check this out, garden spider/widow.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Dreadhawk23541 said:


> It looks like someone else found one of the variants already.
> 
> Check this out, garden spider/widow.
> 
> image


Looks like a normal garden spider to me.


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

The craziest widow I ever saw, was the first widow I noticed. It was when I didn't know what they looked like, and thought they were the black, markless widow shaped spiders you may find under a loose patio slab or something. 

I didn't know false widows had that specific marking on its back. The first time I saw the marking, I knew it was a foreign spider. I love watching insects and have gotten to know the shapes, colors, and patterns of my home town very well after living here for two decades. This spider was huge when it comes to english spider size. It's legs were the length of the big brown hairy spiders you get here, (even a little longer if you ask me, but hey I wasn't about to hold up a tape measure near that beast any time soon) that have relatively small abdomen things compared to their heads. Yet it was hairless, red crabby legs, and a huge abdomen, probably ready to have babies or whatever cuz it was like spring, coming into summer kinda time. (Not that I know anything about mating cycles other than abdomen size btw, I just like looking at things) 

We were breaking apart an old summer shed house thing that had been abandoned (by humans) for god knows how long. And it had made quite the spider den. Most of the spiders had no markings, they were almost larval in colour. So this one really stuck out. 

However this "huge" widow, may not be a hybrid. I have a friend from the states, whom I shared this tale with, and he told me that in the states there are black and red widows that grow to the size I described.

You'll see some pretty big widows though later, the ones under the river bridges, where there are lights, are fat! Some of them are striped even. Easily an inch and a half, at least the biggest ones, that have caught me in awe many a night.


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## Dreadhawk23541 (Apr 15, 2016)

I'm willing to accept the random mish mash names for these variants in widow may not be related to the spiders I show pictures of here by the way, but I still believe this has gone too long investigated lol.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

selina20 said:


> They cant because they belong to 2 different genera


Why can't they? There are hybrids from different genera. _Eunectes_ x _Boa_, _Boa_ x _Epicrates_ are two examples.


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## catkindo (Aug 24, 2009)

Dreadhawk23541 said:


> image
> 
> This was taken by a friend, and sent to me when we spoke about it.


That's definitely a male _Steatoda grossa_ and assuredly has not and cannot have hybridised with _Tegenaria domestica_ :lol2:

They're vastly different on every measure.

Similarly that "garden spider/widow" hybrid is definitely _Zygiella x-notata_ which is a little more unusual but again not a hybrid (or widow) at all. I'm guessing you live in a slightly warmer area of Britain near the sea.

False Widows can grow fairly large and vary a lot in appearance. A lot of similar spiders also exist which can cause confusion but generally invertebrates are incredibly unlikely to hybridise so that's not really worth considering :lol2:

~catkindo


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## PeterUK (Jun 21, 2008)

ian14 said:


> Why can't they? There are hybrids from different genera. _Eunectes_ x _Boa_, _Boa_ x _Epicrates_ are two examples.



because arachnids are totally different to boa's and it is a physical impossibility for 2 different arachnid Genus to create hybrids. The sexual organs of both species would be different shapes/sizes and would be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole
That would be like trying to cross a Boa constrictor x Crotalus atrox. Both are reptiles, both have scales and both are livebearers and that where the similarity ends, the same for the spiders. 
Just because they look vaguely similar doesnt mean that they can hybridise.


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## Diabolic Al (Mar 12, 2010)

You won't get cross genera hybridisation. Quite simply put square peg, round hole. 

It is also worth bearing in mind that Steatoda are EXTREMELY variable. Just because a nobilis has a reduced pattern does not make it a hybrid with a grossa. 

We only have a handful of recognised False Widow species in the UK in varying degrees of abundance. they are also highly sexually diamorphic. 

We have enough hassle with the press with these benign spiders as it is without bringing hybridisation into the matter.

NONE of the photos in this thread are hybrids. 

The only way to know for sure if Steatoda are actually interspecies breeding would be microscopic examination of the epigyne.. I don't think any of you have done that somehow.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

PeterUK said:


> because arachnids are totally different to boa's and it is a physical impossibility for 2 different arachnid Genus to create hybrids. The sexual organs of both species would be different shapes/sizes and would be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole
> That would be like trying to cross a Boa constrictor x Crotalus atrox. Both are reptiles, both have scales and both are livebearers and that where the similarity ends, the same for the spiders.
> Just because they look vaguely similar doesnt mean that they can hybridise.


Thank you. Nice to learn something new!


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