# Wanted: Medium size dog please help



## rox (Dec 21, 2008)

im looking for either a doberman,rottweiler or english bull terrier puppy although will take one upto 1 yrs old must be good with other dogs and small children will pay upto a reasonable amount i live in essex please get in touch or refer to me any one you know. Im not thick i wont fall for scammers thank you


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

rox said:


> im looking for either a doberman,rottweiler or english bull terrier puppy although will take one upto 1 yrs old must be good with other dogs and small children will pay upto a reasonable amount i live in essex please get in touch or refer to me any one you know. Im not thick i wont fall for scammers thank you


have you had experience with those breeds? Perhaps a breed spefic Rescue could be the way to go?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Dog Rescue Pages - UK breed rescue organisations

There's rescues for most breeds nowadays. Dont be put off by them, not all rescue dogs are problem dogs (by a long shot). We have a beautiful rescue dane who is fantastic with our 5 kids.

Edited to add - dont know if this is any help, but they have an EBT, rottie, staffies, etc looking for homes (or reserved, but shows they get them in sometimes):
http://www.rspcaessex.org.uk/index.html


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

rox said:


> im looking for either a *doberman,rottweiler* or english bull terrier puppy although will take one upto 1 yrs old must be good with other dogs and small children will pay upto a reasonable amount i live in essex please get in touch or refer to me any one you know. Im not thick i wont fall for scammers thank you



medium dog:gasp: what do you consider a large dog?


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

hullhunter said:


> medium dog:gasp: what do you consider a large dog?


 Great dane, saint bernard.........


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Dobies aren't any bigger than an average lurcher. I'd class them as medium. But then my dog is 82kg...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Dobies aren't any bigger than an average lurcher. I'd class them as medium. But then my dog is 82kg...


id consider luchers to be big dogs!
82kg? youve got a great dane havent you? isnt 82kg a bit overweight even for a great dane?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Yes he's a dane.

I wouldn't consider a lurcher as large. They dont weigh as much as a lab for example.


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## C4VEMAN-5AM (May 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Yes he's a dane.
> 
> I wouldn't consider a lurcher as large. They dont weigh as much as a lab for example.


 Their taller then a lab though. :gasp: Our lab's not that big. (But she is female and on a tight feeding schedule. Training to be a gun dog.)

But no lurchers should weigh that much.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Yes he's a dane.
> 
> I wouldn't consider a lurcher as large. They dont weigh as much as a lab for example.


for me weight doesnt decide whether a dog is small medium or large, to me a dogs stature would decide which size catagory it would fall into. Dobermans might not be weighty but they have big frames so i would put them in a large catagory, as do lurchers. id say great danes were extra large


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## deerhound (Jul 19, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Yes he's a dane.
> 
> I wouldn't consider a lurcher as large. They dont weigh as much as a lab for example.


Depends what the parentage of the Lurcher is. If its wolfhound x Greyhound then its alot bigger than a Whippit x Collie. 

My dog stands at 37 inchs so i class all other breeds as small :lol2:


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

i would say that lurchers fall into all sizes. i no of lurchers that stand at 17" and by brother has just sold an american red nose pitbull x greyhound that was 32" witch is great dane size if not bigger (not sure how big great dains get)


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

My rottie stood at 22". Not quite up to breed standard but people used to say she was tiny :gasp: what a difference a few inches make


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

SaZzY said:


> My rottie stood at 22". Not quite up to breed standard but people used to say she was tiny :gasp: *what a difference a few* *inches make*



all women say that:lol2:


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

My last Dane, Blue was around 40" tall and only weighed 64kg and he was in no way a thin dog.


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## SaZzY (Mar 4, 2009)

hullhunter said:


> all women say that:lol2:


:lol2: I walked right into that


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> i would say that lurchers fall into all sizes. i no of lurchers that stand at 17" and by brother has just sold an american red nose pitbull x greyhound that was 32" witch is great dane size if not bigger (not sure how big great dains get)


 I don't think you should be broadcasting that your brother is breeding illegal dogs. He might end up rauided by the police and RSPCA and have his dogs removed from him and PTS.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I don't think you should be broadcasting that your brother is breeding illegal dogs. He might end up rauided by the police and RSPCA and have his dogs removed from him and PTS.


were did i say he bred her. i said he sold one also i was not aware that it was illegal to own,breed or sell a cross breed?


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> were did i say he bred her. i said he sold one also i was not aware that it was illegal to own,breed or sell a cross breed?


It is illegal to own, breed or sell a pitbull, pitbull cross or pitbull type of dog. Have you not heard of the dangerous dogs act which banned them?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Blu is slightly overweight, but not freakishly so. He cant help having problems with his back end which means anything other than short walks make him lame in one leg. He's not even allowed to play for more than a few minutes.










He's certainly not obese. I'm not sure if the 82kg is accurate as it was my hubby who had him weighed at the vets, and it changes every time I ask him :lol2: He's certainly at least 75kg. But then he came to us 77kg (after a diet where he put ON 5kg for his fosterers lol).


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Yeah hes got a belly on him. lol! Although hes not a big fat fattie. Its definately hard work getting a dogs weight down when they cant exercise much, especially a Dane with a big appetite! 
Blue had a huge appetite but he also went for 5 mile walks every day and saw his best friend Louis (a rhodesian ridgeback) a few times a week for a few hours of play. Even then he was a heavyset boy.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

daikenkai said:


> Yeah hes got a belly on him. lol! Although hes not a big fat fattie. Its definately hard work getting a dogs weight down when they cant exercise much, especially a Dane with a big appetite!
> Blue had a huge appetite but he also went for 5 mile walks every day and saw his best friend Louis (a rhodesian ridgeback) a few times a week for a few hours of play. Even then he was a heavyset boy.


im havin a problem with gettin the belly off one of the skunks, theyre not as easy to exercise cos they dont tend to walk when out on the lead they just walk round a small amount of space and you follow! lol so i can see how its hard gettin weight off an animal


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Blu was tied up in a yard for the first 4 years of his life. Subsequently, his back legs are skew whiff and he gets very lame very easily. Obviously weight loss would help a lot - and he gets the amount of food for what weight he should be (65kg-ish), not what weight he is. Sadly he has pretty severe skin reactions to most dog foods, even home prepared raw diet, so the only food he hasn't had a reaction with is Skinners duck and rice. Which isn't exactly low fat!

I got a big shock when my hubby said he was 82kg, as to me, he looks like he's lost weight since we adopted him. This was him when he came home:


















He's about 6-7 now, which makes him verging on elderly for a dane.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> It is illegal to own, breed or sell a pitbull, pitbull cross or pitbull type of dog. Have you not heard of the dangerous dogs act which banned them?



32" could you call that a pitbull type and that law is a load of **** its not the breed its the owner so why should they put down a dog for what it looks like.ive met chiuauas that are much more aggresive than any "pitbull type" i have eva come across


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

By all means disagree with the law, doesn't mean you can break it though :whistling2:


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> By all means disagree with the law, doesn't mean you can break it though :whistling2:


and how have i broke it?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I didn't say you had. I said you can disagree with it, doesn't mean you can break it. I didn't say you already had.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I didn't say you had. I said you can disagree with it, doesn't mean you can break it. I didn't say you already had.



ok :bash:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh you're so tough and manly *cough, splutter* :lol2:


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Blu was tied up in a yard for the first 4 years of his life. Subsequently, his back legs are skew whiff and he gets very lame very easily. Obviously weight loss would help a lot - and he gets the amount of food for what weight he should be (65kg-ish), not what weight he is. Sadly he has pretty severe skin reactions to most dog foods, even home prepared raw diet, so the only food he hasn't had a reaction with is Skinners duck and rice. Which isn't exactly low fat!
> 
> I got a big shock when my hubby said he was 82kg, as to me, he looks like he's lost weight since we adopted him. This was him when he came home:
> image
> ...


wow he WAS a biggy! He definately looks to have lost a lot of weight. Poor boy...i dont know how anyone could be bad to any animal but especially a Great Dane, theyre such gentle and loving dogs...


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Oh you're so tough and manly *cough, splutter* :lol2:


?.?.?


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

With your giant manly hammer, and family with pitbulls.

Good response would have been "and you too Lisa", but hey.: victory::lol2:

Cant anyone take a joke any more? Sigh...


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> 32" could you call that a pitbull type and that law is a load of **** its not the breed its the owner so why should they put down a dog for what it looks like.ive met chiuauas that are much more aggresive than any "pitbull type" i have eva come across


OFF TOPIC!!

Any "Pit bull" type dog still comes under the dangerous dog act, regardless of their temperment, and the police will not hesitate in proving this and ending up with a dog being destoried.

We have a Mastiff x at the kennels with half its ear missing hes been with us for 2 years and had 3 assessments, gets on fine with other dogs (even go a video to prove it, has no other visable scars to prove hes been fighting yet the police have gone out of their way to make it looks as if he is a pit bull and are saying hes been used for fighting which will lead to him being in my words murderd.

I do not a agree with the dangerous dogs act on bit but the law is the law at the end of the day and with the media and idiots continuing to breed from and fight them its never going to change.

Now ive said my off topic bit, can you lot not go one minute without arguing with each other and hi jacking a thread???

And yes i suppose i am in a bit of a bad mood before anyone says i am :lol2:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

hullhunter said:


> and how have i broke it?


you havent broke it but from what i can gather ( and im not up on the law ) just by owning a pitbull x, and sellin it, your brother has, im sure if im wrong someone who knows the law will correct me?



hullhunter said:


> 32" could you call that a pitbull type and that law is a load of **** its not the breed its the owner so why should they put down a dog for what it looks like.ive met chiuauas that are much more aggresive than any "pitbull type" i have eva come across


regardless of the size of the dog, if it is part of an illegal breed it doesnt matter of its size, its still illegal. i agree with you it is about the owner, and a lot of laws are ridiculous, but it doesnt mean we can break them just cos theyre stupid


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

Rox, definitely try the breed rescues, Rotties are screaming out for good homes - i doubt you'd get some tiny young puppies but definitely from 1 year+ worth asking about though and getting on waiting list etc.

We have a bull terrier puppy of 14 weeks... now he keeps us on our toes. If you do get a Bullie, i know of a brilliant forum for moral support. :lol2: (and if you get one you'll know exactly why you'll NEED moral support... LOL)
Perfect excuse for a pic me thinks.. :whistling2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/joedee2k/DSCF2658.jpg


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Dont forget to try BulliesinNeed


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## Bearded Dragon Man (May 3, 2009)

You should defently have a great dane as they are gentle giants but also very loyal to you. They also make great guard dogs and protect you when out your home.

Here is a picture of my three great danes in the snow :


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Aww they're beautiful dogs. Even if Blu lost all his extra padding, he'd never be that graceful/fine boned, they're truly stunning.

We initially thought Blu was part mastiff, he's so chunky (and I dont mean just fat, he's got a very broad frame for a dane, suits me though - less chance of bloating!).


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Bearded Dragon Man said:


> You should defently have a great dane as they are gentle giants but also very loyal to you. They also make great guard dogs and protect you when out your home.
> 
> Here is a picture of my three great danes in the snow :
> 
> ...


Aww theyre beautiful dogs! Danes are definately amazing dogs and when the time is right one day i hope to have one again. Until then ill just have to go cuddle my mums dog. :lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> 32" could you call that a pitbull type and that law is a load of **** its not the breed its the owner so why should they put down a dog for what it looks like.ive met chiuauas that are much more aggresive than any "pitbull type" i have eva come across


the 32" isn't relevant. I was referring to your statement that it was a rednose pitbull cross. Whether you agree with the law or not, it is the law. Whether you think pitbulls are sweet natured and cuddly lap doggies who wouldn't harm a fly, or not, the fact remains that they are a banned breed. Personally I don't happen to agree with the 'deed not breed' argument. If this was so, then all breeds would be exactly the same temperament, and your pitbull would be no more dangerous than one of my cavalier king charles spaniels which is patently not the case.
I don't like pitbulls and am glad they are banned and wish a few other breeds were added to the list.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> the 32" isn't relevant. I was referring to your statement that it was a rednose pitbull cross. Whether you agree with the law or not, it is the law. Whether you think pitbulls are sweet natured and cuddly lap doggies who wouldn't harm a fly, or not, the fact remains that they are a banned breed. Personally I don't happen to agree with the 'deed not breed' argument. If this was so, then all breeds would be exactly the same temperament, and your pitbull would be no more dangerous than one of my cavalier king charles spaniels which is patently not the case.
> I don't like pitbulls and am glad they are banned and wish a few other breeds were added to the list.


as it happens more bites that are seen at hospital are done by spaniels. so your theory is wrong...also check the american temperement testing website and you would see that shock horror your wrong
many people dont like little yappy efforts, roll on the day they are banned...cos they are biters too but cos they are small people think their brattish behaviour is cute and well it doesnt sell papers does it now


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

ami_j said:


> as it happens more bites that are seen at hospital are done by spaniels.


 which breed of spaniel?There are plenty of different ones. I have never heard of a cavalier king charles spaniel being a breed which bites.
You cannot lump all spaniels together any more than you can lump all terriers together.
Also please give me a link to the data which explains your statement in detail.




> so your theory is wrong


 It is not wrong.


> ...also check the american temperement testing website


 whatever for? I am in the united kingdom. Nothing to do with America, nothing to do with American dogs.



> and you would see that shock horror your wrong


I dispute this.



> many people dont like little yappy efforts, roll on the day they are banned


 No child ever died because a little dog yapped.



> ...cos they are biters too


 Once again, please be breed specific instead of making vague statements.


> but cos they are small people think their brattish behaviour is cute and well it doesnt sell papers does it now


 It has nothing to do with a bite. Nor to do with selling newspapers. It has to do with children being killed and the breed's propensity for extreme violence. If you really think that pitbull terriers are less dangerous than a cavalier king charles spaniel, and they are all just nice sweet misunderstood dogs, you are nuts!
Those and American bulldogs are vile.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> which breed of spaniel?There are plenty of different ones. I have never heard of a cavalier king charles spaniel being a breed which bites.
> You cannot lump all spaniels together any more than you can lump all terriers together.
> Also please give me a link to the data which explains your statement in detail.
> 
> ...


I have an example we have a "pitbull" type at the kennels and a JRT x which do you think has caused the most problems so far with going for people?


as for newspaper do you believe everything you read in them? Of course your not going to see articals plasterd all over them saying how this little jrt/spaneil/collie or lab has attacked a child only devil staffies, demon pitbulls and horrible american bull dogs have.

It got everything to do with money when it comes to the news simple as.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> which breed of spaniel?There are plenty of different ones. I have never heard of a cavalier king charles spaniel being a breed which bites.
> You cannot lump all spaniels together any more than you can lump all terriers together.
> Also please give me a link to the data which explains your statement in detail.
> 
> ...


again showing ignorance of the pitbull due to your dislike...they were bred to fight bulls and other dogs not attack people , infact any dogs that attacked people were weeded out as in the times when they were created for such "sport" they were also family dogs...also if you check the videos on the site theres one where many pitbulls are sat quiet happily with children. sure they strong dogs that need a firm hand but they have a loyal and sweet temperment if treated with respect. its how a dog is raised.

again i think little yappy dogs are vile but live and let live eh....you dont know everything much as you may think you do


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> I have an example we have a "pitbull" type at the kennels and a JRT x which do you think has caused the most problems so far with going for people?
> 
> 
> as for newspaper do you believe everything you read in them? Of course your not going to see articals plasterd all over them saying how this little jrt/spaneil/collie or lab has attacked a child only devil staffies, demon pitbulls and horrible american bull dogs have.
> ...


 You cannot have a pitbull type at the kennels since it is illegal to own, sell, pass on, breed or have one of these dogs.
I have no doubt the little JRT is a problem. Many of them are. Is he capable of killing a 10 year old by ripping it to bits? As for newspapers, did they make up the stories about pitbiulls killing children? Are the stories from America and Ireland about them killing children, cats and other people's pet dogs, and attacking adult humans, all made up because in reality they are lovely gentle dogs?
It is less about and dog attacking or biting and more to do with certain breeds killing children. Or are you saying that you consider a nip to be the same as a death?


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> You cannot have a pitbull type at the kennels since it is illegal to own, sell, pass on, breed or have one of these dogs.
> I have no doubt the little JRT is a problem. Many of them are. Is he capable of killing a 10 year old by ripping it to bits? As for newspapers, did they make up the stories about pitbiulls killing children? Are the stories from America and Ireland about them killing children, cats and other people's pet dogs, and attacking adult humans, all made up because in reality they are lovely gentle dogs?
> It is less about and dog attacking or biting and more to do with certain breeds killing children. Or are you saying that you consider a nip to be the same as a death?


the same stories circulate about rottweilers yet you have a cross rott that wouldnt do any of that...because you trained him!
its the morons that treat dogs like status symbols that give a dog a bad name.any dog is capable of hurting someone just some are stronger , treated correctly they ARE lovely dogs
pitbull "type" is a very wooly set of instructions btw the dog in question is probably a lovely staffy cross but called "dangerous" just because of how it looks


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> You cannot have a pitbull type at the kennels since it is illegal to own, sell, pass on, breed or have one of these dogs.
> I have no doubt the little JRT is a problem. Many of them are. Is he capable of killing a 10 year old by ripping it to bits? As for newspapers, did they make up the stories about pitbiulls killing children? Are the stories from America and Ireland about them killing children, cats and other people's pet dogs, and attacking adult humans, all made up because in reality they are lovely gentle dogs?
> It is less about and dog attacking or biting and more to do with certain breeds killing children. Or are you saying that you consider a nip to be the same as a death?


But we can have them at the kennels because we have the contract for dangerous dogs... We have 4 pits in at the moment only one of them is nasty.

And i wouldnt but it past this JRT to have the ability maul a young child which might lead to its death, I saw how it attack one fo the kennel staff lucky it was just her shoe it managed to get hold of.

I was more refering to newspapers over doing things and making things more than what they appear to be.

I think you are really very biais against certain breeds from what you have read from newspaper or seen on TV.

However jsut as its always beena nd always will be "One rule for one and one for the other".


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

ami_j said:


> again showing ignorance of the pitbull due to your dislike...they were bred to fight bulls and other dogs not attack people ,



 Really? Pitbulls have not attacked any humans in recent years?



> infact any dogs that attacked people were weeded out as in the times when they were created for such "sport" they were also family dogs...


Ah so they were weeded out and no pitbulls have ever attacked any humans in recent years? Pitbulls were not bred to bait bulls. Staffordshire bull terriers, Bull terriers and bulldogs were.
The pitbull was bred to fight other dogs in a pit. That's why they are called pitbulls. They are a fairly recent breed with several other breeds in their make up, including our own staffies from which they take the 'bull' part of their name. Staffies which were much admired by 2nd world war American servicemen who took them home with them after the war.



> also if you check the videos on the site theres one where many pitbulls are sat quiet happily with children. sure they strong dogs that need a firm hand but they have a loyal and sweet temperment if treated with respect. its how a dog is raised





> .


Are we talking pro pitbull sites? No pro breed site will ever admit that their breed has problems. You never have cocker spaniel breed sites telling about cocker rage, nor golden retriever websites telling you that this breed also has rage syndrome. Similarly, sites which are pro pitbull will only tell you how lovely they are. Don't believe all you read.
I agree it is partly how a dog is raised, but genes cannot be trained out. The breed was bred for aggression. Just like GSD and rotties are bred to guard, collies bred to work, labradors bred to retrive, pointers bred to point, cockers bred to flush. It's in their genes. However well trained they may be with their owner, the genes are still there to fight, flush, herd, point, guard etc. It's this silliness with people saying that they are really all cute and cuddly in reality, which can cause the problems as they do not want to believe the fact that their dog can explode into wanton violence, however well trained it is.
All the pitbulls all over the world who have attacked the children they lived with in a family situation,tell you this.
There are very few breeds I dislike and distrust and not only would not own but see no earth;y reason for them to exist other than to be a status symbol, and pitbulls are high on my list.



> again i think little yappy dogs are vile but live and let live eh....you dont know everything much as you may think you do


 I haven't a problem with anyone not liking small dogs, or big dogs, or yappy dogs etc. However, small dogs, yappy dogs etc aren't capable of killing a human.Argue until you are blue in the face but you cannot deny that fact can you?
How many kids have been killed or maimed by a chihuahua/poodle/cavalier or any of the breeds you obviously despise?
In fact, I find the sorts of people who sneer at tiny dogs, are usually the sort of person I expect to see holding a slavering pitbull on a spiked collar and chain lead strong enough to anchor the Queen Mary.A psychologist would have plenty to say about that person feeling inferior and insecure and needing a huge dog to hide those feelings and make themself feel feared.
I have personal experience with this too.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

ami_j said:


> the same stories circulate about rottweilers yet you have a cross rott that wouldnt do any of that...because you trained him!
> its the morons that treat dogs like status symbols that give a dog a bad name.any dog is capable of hurting someone just some are stronger , treated correctly they ARE lovely dogs
> pitbull "type" is a very wooly set of instructions btw the dog in question is probably a lovely staffy cross but called "dangerous" just because of how it looks


 
If your refering to the one we have in the kennels, hes more Mastiff X but because he has half an ear missing the police are making him out to be a fighting pit but he has no other scars and gets on fine with other dogs, he was found with another dog which is a lot more of a pit type they both were out int he yard playing with each other.

Is hall see if i can find the video i took of them both although i was ill when i took it and my voice sounds so different lol


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

I think we need to get something straight..

So far all dog attacks which have left children badly injured or dead (very sadly) have been down to the fault of the dogs owners. The owners have known what there dogs can do, some dogs have even been taught to behave in such a way, some are just very undersocalised. It has never been the dogs fault, regardless of breed. It is always the owner.
A dog is an animal and should be treated as such, no child should be left unsupervised in a room or house with a dog. Every single dog has the potential to cause damage and even death depending on the circumstances.


APBT were banned due to the amount of dogs falling into the wrong hands and because of the power behind them.

I have dlet with allot of different breeds whilst moving them from pounds to rescues and my transporters have never been bitten by an unknown Bull Breed, its always been Yorkies, Terriers and Collies. 

And you will find that Labs, Collies, Spaniels and Terriers are high on the list of reported dog bite attacks. If you google it you should find the list.

Bull Breeds are people dogs, they will always go the extra mile for there owners. Sadly there power has been abused by certain people who will use these dogs for self gain, these people are the ones that need to be banned. But untill the risk to these dogs has been removed I am happy the APBT's and those like it are banned and will stay banned. And I think anyone knowingly owning one for the wrong reasons should face a fine and jail time.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Really? Pitbulls have not attacked any humans in recent years?
> 
> theres been attacks...but there has by rottweilers, labs, spaniels, corgis etc
> Ah so they were weeded out and no pitbulls have ever attacked any humans in recent years? Pitbulls were not bred to bait bulls. Staffordshire bull terriers, Bull terriers and bulldogs were.
> ...


small dogs have killed. a pom and a jack russell are two documented cases.
and i dont sneer or despise little dogs...as a dog lover i dont hate any of them...theres breeds i wouldnt own because they dont fit my circumstances but they may suit another person well. Its preference i prefer my dogs to look like a dog not be the size of a cat or rabbit. and if your suggesting that i am insecure and need a large dog to be feared my dogs just a medium sized cross. you may have experience with that but you obv dont have any experience with pitbulls so im afraid im going to listen to the pitbulls many enthusiasts who have actually kept and enjoyed then breed



Mischievous_Mark said:


> If your refering to the one we have in the kennels, hes more Mastiff X but because he has half an ear missing the police are making him out to be a fighting pit but he has no other scars and gets on fine with other dogs, he was found with another dog which is a lot more of a pit type they both were out int he yard playing with each other.
> 
> Is hall see if i can find the video i took of them both although i was ill when i took it and my voice sounds so different lol


aye mastiff x, boxer x etc they get confused for "types" all the time its ridiculous.


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## ami_j (Jan 6, 2007)

marthaMoo said:


> I think we need to get something straight..
> 
> So far all dog attacks which have left children badly injured or dead (very sadly) have been down to the fault of the dogs owners. The owners have known what there dogs can do, some dogs have even been taught to behave in such a way, some are just very undersocalised. It has never been the dogs fault, regardless of breed. It is always the owner.
> A dog is an animal and should be treated as such, no child should be left unsupervised in a room or house with a dog. Every single dog has the potential to cause damage and even death depending on the circumstances.
> ...


:no1:
i do think that it should be made so that people have to take more responsibility so that bad owners are banned not the breed. but thats another story lol


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

I think a mod shoudl come a split this thread into two differrent topics now as it has clearly become that lol


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

All dogs have the capacity to cause injury/death - even the little ones. 

Saying all pits are bad by breed and have the desire for 'wanton violence' is just simply not true. There are Pitbull search and rescue teams, therapy dogs etc for example..

You mentioned the Bull Terrier being a dog bred for baiting.. is that not being bred for aggression also? they were also bred for the pits and were fighters too. Is it Bull breeds in general that should therefor be banned by association, they're a big powerful breed too, Staffies, German Shepard, Great Dane... the list goes on and on?

The responsibility for the dogs training/behaviour and socialisation will come via the owner. Breed alone shouldnt be used as the be all and end all, of all the reports of sensationalised dog attacks you read on the news how many hundreds of thousands of Pits are sat at home being a loyal family pet wondering what all the fuss is about.


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I don't like pitbulls and am glad they are banned and wish a few other breeds were added to the list.



poodles, jack russels and chihuahuas. pure eeeeevil! lol!


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I've read of a cocker spaniel killing an old woman, a daschund nearly killing a baby (not by smothering - pulled out of bed and mauled around the head - don't know if baby survived) and a poodle attacking and maiming a pit bull. Most breeds have a bad representative somewhere, pit bulls just get more press as it's sexier story-writing than "Devil spaniel". :lol2:

Quite often the press misrepresent dogs in attacks as pit bulls when they're not too. I have lost count of the stories I've read that had to be later changed to "labrador" or similar from "Raging devil dog pit bull" or similar.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

We had a JRT for a while but she had to go as she kept attacking me, it turned out that she had epilepsy but when she was going for me she really wanted to do some damage. :gasp:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

LOL @ devil spaniel.

The majority of dog bites are done by *shock horror* mongrels. Because there's more of them about. Then I believe labs, collies and small dogs come before pitbulls.

Any large dog can kill a child. Some small ones too (I've heard of a baby killed by a chihuahua IIRC, or maybe that's the pom others have mentionned).

Pitbulls are not more likely to bite people - what's the point in breeding a dog for fighting if it's going to attack it's handler. That's why fighting or guarding type breeds are so GOOD with people, because they're trained to attack other dogs, and be extremely placid with their owners.

The only reason that pitbulls, rotties etc end up in the papers is because of media hype. People dont want to read about someone being attacked by a labradoodle or chihuahua. Doesn't mean those attacks dont happen!

JRT kills child:
Kentucky Infant Killed by Family Dog

Husky
Dogs Do The Darnedest Things Dog Kills Baby By Mistake

Large mixed breed
Family Dog Kills Baby Boy in Waianae | KGMB9 News Hawaii | (KGMB9)

Chow
Family dog attacks, kills 2-week-old baby girl | PET & ANIMAL NEWS | Arizona | azfamily.com

Lab puppy and pug
Puppy kills baby!!! - Dog Community, Dog Pictures, Dog Forum & Information ? Dog.community

I'm not saying that I disagree about pit bulls being more likely to bite. But that isn't because of their genetics, it's because of their owners. I'm more likely to be bitten by any dog owned by a testosterone fueled chav, just so happens that the testosterone fueled chavs aint going to have a poodle. A well socialised well trained pitbull is no different to any other large breed. They dont have locking jaws, they dont enjoy the taste of blood lol. They may be more likely to have problems with other _dogs_ - but an experienced owner will be able to work with that. Just that the people attracted to these breeds aint experienced dog people - they're idiots!

I personally would never have a pitbull because I dont believe I am experienced enough to have one (besides, they're banned!). Some breeds need an incredible amount of socialisation with other animals, and as a disabled lady I dont get out enough to be able to do that. But I do have a whopping huge dog that no doubt you'd add to the list, as he's a dane so therefore a mastiff type - and I'm not naive enough to think he couldn't do damage if he wanted to. Which is why I make sure that the kids are never alone with him, they never feed him, they never initiate play without asking first, they dont even stroke him without permission and supervision. Look up those dog bite statistics and find out how many kids were left alone with that pitbull/akita/rottie and how those animals were kept.

Yep, a bigger dog is more likely to be able to kill someone, but little dogs will still have a good go if not trained properly or provoked - like ANY other dog would. And even if they cant physically kill (although I disagree with that little factule LOL) little dogs are just as capable of causing severe disfigurement and psychological harm.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Strange really, because the only dogs I know/see/hear of on a daily basis that are aggressive or not good with kids/other dogs seems to be, Chihuahuas, Yorkies, JRT's, Cockers, Collie's and collie x's, Westies and Italian Greys. It's easy to see though why smaller dogs would be more aggressive.


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Strange really, because the only dogs I know/see/hear of on a daily basis that are aggressive or not good with kids/other dogs seems to be, Chihuahuas, Yorkies, JRT's, Cockers, Collie's and collie x's, Westies and Italian Greys. It's easy to see though why smaller dogs would be more aggressive.


Funny you should say that in the dog aggressiveness study that was done this is the list of breeds found to be the most aggressive towards people/other dogs etc. :whistling2:


Dachshunds
Chihuahua
Jack Russell
Australian Cattle Dog
Cocker Spaniel
Beagle
Border Collie
Pit Bull Terrier
Great Dane
English Springer Spaniel
Interestingly from the same article..
_The problem is that current bite statistics can be misleading because many dog bites go unreported and only bites that require medical attention are taken into account for these statistics. This means that dogs that have specific fighting qualities from when they were used as fighting dogs or hunters, or larger dogs with more strength appear to be more aggressive than they actually are. When a pit bull terrier attacks it is more likely to have serious consequences, but some breeds from the toy group can be just as aggressive but their bites have little effect so the incidence isn’t reported and a distorted image is presented about aggressive dogs_.


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

Border Collies popped up in that list - I have 2 and i can honestly say i dont 100% trust either of them. One's 10 and ones 5. With us and our immediate family they're both absolutely fine. 
On saying that though 1 is not good with children at all, isnt actively aggressive but would snap if ever one tried to cuddle her, grab her etc but is fine with adults. The other is very nervous and fearful of all people/strangers despite intensive socialisation, he's okay if they dont try to force interactions and will come on his own terms but stay skittish until he's sure, then he's your best mate. 
We have a 2 year old child and he's only allowed to interact with the Collies under VERY strict supervision - lots of dog gates in my house, they've accepted him but it only takes a second. 
They would however die for us and my son and are extremely obedient, its how we manage their strengths and weaknesses and the fact that we can read them like a book prevents any accidents.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

royal_girly said:


> Border Collies popped up in that list - I have 2 and i can honestly say i dont 100% trust either of them. One's 10 and ones 5. With us and our immediate family they're both absolutely fine.
> On saying that though 1 is not good with children at all, isnt actively aggressive but would snap if ever one tried to cuddle her, grab her etc but is fine with adults. The other is very nervous and fearful of all people/strangers despite intensive socialisation, he's okay if they dont try to force interactions and will come on his own terms but stay skittish until he's sure, then he's your best mate.
> We have a 2 year old child and he's only allowed to interact with the Collies under VERY strict supervision - lots of dog gates in my house, they've accepted him but it only takes a second.
> They would however die for us and my son and are extremely obedient, its how we manage their strengths and weaknesses and the fact that we can read them like a book prevents any accidents.



you have a dog in your home which is not good with children :gasp::gasp::gasp: 
when you have a child you need your head testing. i would not even have fish in my house if i thought they could harm my kids.are you insane or niave or both.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> you have a dog in your home which is not good with children :gasp::gasp::gasp:
> when you have a child you need your head testing. i would not even have fish in my house if i thought they could harm my kids.are you insane or niave or both.


 Neither. She is a sensible dog owning parent who manages the dogs to ensure nothing bad happens to them or her children, while allowing her children to interact with them under supervision. This will do more for teaching them about responsibility and behaving properly around dogs than being overprotective will.
No wonder so many children are growing up terrified of anything new and being too scared of their own shadow to take any risks.
My son was bitten by my dog when he was 2 years old. He then got his bum slapped for trying to take a bone from the dog after I had specifically told him to come out of the room and leave the dog to eat in peace. The dog lived until he was 14 years old and when he died, my son mourned him like he'd lost a brother.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Neither. She is a sensible dog owning parent who manages the dogs to ensure nothing bad happens to them or her children, while allowing her children to interact with them under supervision. This will do more for teaching them about responsibility and behaving properly around dogs than being overprotective will.
> No wonder so many children are growing up terrified of anything new and being too scared of their own shadow to take any risks.
> My son was bitten by my dog when he was 2 years old. He then got his bum slapped for trying to take a bone from the dog after I had specifically told him to come out of the room and leave the dog to eat in peace. The dog lived until he was 14 years old and when he died, my son mourned him like he'd lost a brother.


supervised or not any dog could maul a child in the blinck of an eye so one that dose not like kids in the same house as a child just sounds stupid to me.


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

what we all need to remember is all dogs are individual just like us ...one nasty jr doesnt mean another will be , same goes for every breed...when i was younger i got badly bitten by my parents rough collie..it was my own fault..i was playing ball with my sisters threw it and it hit him hard on his nose unfortunatly he had just had an operation on it, so i was his target for having caused him pain..this was the only time he ever bit anyone ...all my dogs are as soft as s*** and i would trust them with anyone although if around kids there is an adult present


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

hullhunter said:


> supervised or not any dog could maul a child in the blinck of an eye so one that dose not like kids in the same house as a child just sounds stupid to me.


9 times out of 10 any kid problems are down to..well..you know...KIDS. Speaking as a mum of 5, not someone who's anti-kids. 

All parents should be careful with all dogs, like you said, any dog is capable of harming a child (or an adult for that matter, or other pets), what is required is a sensible owner (which the other poster clearly is with dog gates and constant supervision!).

Kids need as much training as the dogs involved do - in some cases of dog bites it would be preferable to rehome the kid (or get it a shock collar). Some people shouldn't have either kids OR dogs, and these are where the bite statistics shoot up.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

hullhunter said:


> supervised or not *any dog* could maul a child in the blinck of an eye so one that dose not like kids in the same house as a child just sounds stupid to me.


exactly, ANY dog, not just one that has been known to be aggressive, so by your own statement it suggests that if ANY dog can maul a child in the blink of an eye NO ONE with children should have dogs, even if they have known aggressive tendancies or not....
i was brought up with dogs, so much so i used so that i used to go to any dog in the street n stroke them, one day i got bitten. But that was my fault not the dogs, he didnt know me from adam and probably didnt know what i was doing so was just protecting itself. Sometimes when dogs bite its not just cos theyre aggressive


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> you have a dog in your home which is not good with children :gasp::gasp::gasp:
> when you have a child you need your head testing. i would not even have fish in my house if i thought they could harm my kids.are you insane or niave or both.


I do. And that dog is 10 years old, i had her all of her life and i'm not prepared to shunt her off anywhere just because i chose to have a child, she's here and is staying here until the day she dies. She wouldnt dare harm a hair on his head while is being allowed access to him with our supervision. i would never leave her (or even the puppy) - any of them alone with my son, not because she will then immediately pounce on him and do him harm but because HE wouldnt be able to read the VERY clear warning signals she gives that she's not happy about the situation if he gets too in her face - he's 2 after all. She is brillant with people, older kids, but not younger ones who thinks its acceptable to hang off a dog or use them as a plaything as most do that see a fluffy dog and who's never been taught any better not to dive straight in and grab. 
My son is brilliant with my dogs, its the way he's been taught to be.

Edited: I've highlighted the bit above as it sounds a bit like a threat, its not at all, she knows her place and would never even attempt anything like that while we are there and would only ever snap at him if she felt she had no other choice *shes never actually snapped at any child or anyone else for that matter as she gives these warnings which we have read and understood*, she warns and is clear about it - same to the dogs too when they are in her face. She will in fact will take her self off to another place or her bed should she feel the need to and he knows not to bother her.


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## hullhunter (Apr 19, 2009)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> exactly, ANY dog, not just one that has been known to be aggressive, so by your own statement it suggests that if ANY dog can maul a child in the blink of an eye NO ONE with children should have dogs, even if they have known aggressive tendancies or not....
> i was brought up with dogs, so much so i used so that i used to go to any dog in the street n stroke them, one day i got bitten. But that was my fault not the dogs, he didnt know me from adam and probably didnt know what i was doing so was just protecting itself. Sometimes when dogs bite its not just cos theyre aggressive


if you had a dog that was a cat killer would you also keep a cat? i think not. and yes ALL dogs could harm a child but why increase the risk by keeping a dog that dose not like kids. could you live with your self if that dog tore a pice out your kids face and was scarred for life just because you kept a dog that you *new* did not like kids. coz every time you looked at your child for the of his/her life and see that big scarre you would no its *your* folt. now i could not like with that *NO* animal is worth risking harm to my kids.yes ther is allways a risk but why increse it.


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## Xotics_Freak (Jul 19, 2009)

hullhunter said:


> if you had a dog that was a cat killer would you also keep a cat? i think not. and yes ALL dogs could harm a child but why increase the risk by keeping a dog that dose not like kids. could you live with your self if that dog tore a pice out your kids face and was scarred for life just because you kept a dog that you *new* did not like kids. coz every time you looked at your child for the of his/her life and see that big scarre you would no its *your* folt. now i could not like with that *NO* animal is worth risking harm to my kids.yes ther is allways a risk but why increse it.


 
Any animal has the potential to bite..........so does this mean children shouldnt be allowed to keeps pets of any kind as they are at risk of being bitten ?

Its not just dogs that can bite and leave nasty scars there are many of cute fluffy pets that we let children own that are more than capable of inflicting a nasty bite on anyone also!!


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

a big difference being that in some cases the dog/pet is there _before_ children are brought into the picture. Would you consider it fair for someone to rehome a 10/11/12/1month (whatever age) dog because there is a 'risk' it may hurt a child 'at some point'??? If this is the case, then god forbid children are allowed near hamsters/goldfish/slugs/snails/any object of furniture which does not have a rounded and padded edge to prevent the off-chance that an indicent _might _occur!:devil:

A small example for you..we had a family friend who kept 2 dobies and 3 jack russels. They had 3 children. The youngest child (5 at the time)was supervised but on ONE occasion as the mother turned around to turn the kettle off, she heard a bark - then the child crying..the dog had bitten the child across the arm. The mother instantly punished the dog (not the child) and was contemplating having the dog rehomed..it was only a few minutes later, that the eldest child had actually told the mother that the toddler had given the dog a good whack across the face before promptly poking it in the eye! Needless to say, stricter rules were infored regarding the children asking the parents to play/touch the dogs etc, and no repeat of the incident was ever made. 
Would you have had the dog re-homed taking into consideration that a) as mentioned before kids are kids and yes, sh*t does happen b) it was the parent's botch up in the first place which resulted in the accident, and the dog was merely 'reacting' in the same way any other would? Granted all dogs have their own individual limits of tolerance, but this also can be managed in any household..


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

hullhunter said:


> *if you had a dog that was a cat killer would you also keep a cat? i think not.* and yes ALL dogs could harm a child but why increase the risk by keeping a dog that dose not like kids. could you live with your self if that dog tore a pice out your kids face and was scarred for life just because you kept a dog that you *new* did not like kids. coz every time you looked at your child for the of his/her life and see that big scarre you would no its *your* folt. now i could not like with that *NO* animal is worth risking harm to my kids.yes ther is allways a risk but why increse it.


theres a big difference between a keeping 'cat killer' with cats and a dog that happens to prefer not to interact with small kids, she'd rather remove herself from the situation than 'tear a piece out of my kids face' she's actually very tolerant of my son given if it was up to her she'd have a kid free house (as its been for the last 8 years of her life). I do not let strange kids come messing with my dogs and my son is perfectly safe around her and i'd NEVER leave them alone, same goes with any of the dogs. 
I know, without her ever biting or snapping at anyone purely down to her body language that she's uncomfortable with small 'touchy feely' children, so i keep them both safe. Better that than giving blind trust without properly knowing what to look for or paying attention to the dog at all, then people wonder why bites happen.


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