# Goldfish in a bowl



## Ch+Stewie (Sep 19, 2009)

Hi,

Now please before anyone strings me up i'm just doing some research at the moment... I have an idea but not sure if it's a good one. I've kept fish as a kid but like with most kids got bored easily and forgot about the fish, so i've never really properly cared for a fish. 

I really like the idea of having a little common goldfish in a glass retro stylee goldfish bowl... now I know usually this wouldn't work and the little fishy would probably die, but I've got a plan!

I'm thinking a bowl, with gravel, real plants (I think this would help with oxygen) and a snail or two to eat all the algae. I'd then feed a mixture of good quality fish food and greens/veggies (i hear that's good for them). 

This may sound shallow but i'm thinking for decorative purposes rather than having a big square aquarium, because I think the old school glass bowls look quite funky.

Obviously if this is a bad idea I wont do it because I don't want the fish to suffer, but could it work with a bit of care to the setup??

Let me know your thoughts/recomendations )


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Not for a common goldy, but it can work for fancies. There was some HUGE goldie bowls avaiable a while back which are alot better than the common ones. Or look at homewear places, sometimes you can find decorative bowls suitable. I saw a 60l round bowl today!:2thumb:


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## Ch+Stewie (Sep 19, 2009)

Yeh, I saw a really big one in a pet shop, but it was about £75!.. I thought that's blooming expensive for what is really a cheapo vase with a different label. I'd like a larger one so I could put lots of plants in so he/she could have a good explore.. I don't like the thought of it being cramped up in a little bowl. Otherwise... would it be ok? 

Just out of interest why wouldn't it be suitable for normal goldfish?


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Normal goldfish can reach over 12" long. And are very active. Go to somewhere like Ikea and have a nosey. With plenty of elodea and if you adapt it, its possible


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## rum&coke (Apr 19, 2009)

gold fish need a good size tank and a filter, If you want to do the whole fish in a bowl type thing the best fish to go for would be a siamese fighting fish and use the biggest bowl you can get your hands on.


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## indie85 (Nov 22, 2009)

YOu wouldnt be able to keep a common goldfish in a bowl cos they grow huge! Maybe look at the fancy goldfish? If you can find a huge bowl, it could work, but would need a filter. Goldfish are incredibly messy fish, so a good filter is a must. You could probably hide it at the back amongst plants?

As someone else said, if you're looking for aesthetics, maybe have a look at a siamese fighter? Though they do best with a heater and filter.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

no. its not a good idea. simple as that. even smaller fancy goldfish should reach 8" in length and can reach more depending on genetics, and are big bulky fish. they are also extremely social so to keep a single goldfish in solitary confinement is cruelty IMO. to subject a fish to a life with no room to swim, grow and exhibit some sort of natural behaviour before it dies prematurely through stunting of its growth is plain cruel.

this is a large adult fancy goldfish.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38066000/jpg/_38066879_bruce150.jpg

a nice sized comet goldfish.
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00470/GB_BIGGEST_Goldfish_470456a.jpg

now imagine the amount of stunting these beautiful fish would be subject to in a small bowl/vase. if you were to change the water out daily and feed a good varied diet like you would have to to prevent illness and disease, the fish would grow to the point of being unable to move. it is the quality of the water and the hormone build up which stunt the fish and cause premature death. they also need a ton of filtration to deal with their poop, and they need high levels of oxygen which a bowl will only allow if filled to halfway or less or the surface area will not allow enough gas exchange,so any bowl you could get would be half the volume of water than it would hold. the bowl would be massive to allow for this. fancy goldfish need a minimum 15-20gallons per fish, and single tail commons or comets need at least double to grow and live healthy lives. baring in mind they shouldnt be housed singularly, you would need for a pair of fancy goldfish, a 30-40gallon or 130-140L bowl :gasp: obviously then doubled to allow for it to be filled only to halfway for decent surface area.

if you want a 'pretty vase' with no filter etc, i would say get a few nice aquatic plants, and add a couple of different colour snails, if you add nerite snails they wont breed in fresh water, and they come in so many different shapes and colours. you will need to keep the vase away from cool drafts etc but i have a nerite in an unheated tank and she does just fine. the water will still need regular partial water changes and you will need to add a piece of cucumber or something over night once or twice a week too. i do for mine and she loves it, the rest of the time she just motors around the tank cleaning as she goes.

this is the same colour as mine, she cost me £5 from ebay.
Nerite image by milalic on Photobucket

http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/store/catalog/images/Zebra Nerite.JPG

http://www.franksaquarium.com/images/snail/spiral_horn_snail.jpg


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

I wouldnt say it was impossible. The only difference if you are using a bowl big enough would be one is rectangle, the other round. You can buy large vases which can be adapted as goldie tanks. I have seen this, my friend has one. Its around 120l which he has bought a stand for. Using a filter he has made a bracket which is curved for the bowl, with plenty of aerotation becuase of the enclosing top. Its possible.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

_jake_ said:


> I wouldnt say it was impossible. The only difference if you are using a bowl big enough would be one is rectangle, the other round. You can buy large vases which can be adapted as goldie tanks. I have seen this, my friend has one. Its around 120l which he has bought a stand for. Using a filter he has made a bracket which is curved for the bowl, with plenty of aerotation becuase of the enclosing top. Its possible.


possible maybe,but not the best for the fish. a round bowl wont allow for decent swimming room, wont allow for decent surface area as you have said, it would need an awful not of surface aggitation to make up for the poor area. surely it would be best to house the fish in a large tank to allow the best quality of life for the fish?! maybe im alone on giving my pets the best conditions i can. i dont understand why anyone wouldnt do the best for the animals they choose to keep. i wouldnt keep goldfish in a vase, it would have to be massive, and id rather have a nicely set-up tank which is better all round for the fish i keep. i would be intrigued as to what filtration your friend has on this bowl, goldfish need around double the filtration or more than you would have on a same sized tropical set-up.


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## XBexs123 (Jun 13, 2010)

aww get it a nice big tank, not a horrible round thing! can hardly go anywhere and explore!


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> possible maybe,but not the best for the fish. a round bowl wont allow for decent swimming room, wont allow for decent surface area as you have said, it would need an awful not of surface aggitation to make up for the poor area. surely it would be best to house the fish in a large tank to allow the best quality of life for the fish?! maybe im alone on giving my pets the best conditions i can. i dont understand why anyone wouldnt do the best for the animals they choose to keep. i wouldnt keep goldfish in a vase, it would have to be massive, and id rather have a nicely set-up tank which is better all round for the fish i keep. i would be intrigued as to what filtration your friend has on this bowl, goldfish need around double the filtration or more than you would have on a same sized tropical set-up.


If you have a bowl big enough then I dont see the difference apart from the conditions that you have stated. At the end of the day, the fish would prefer to have large open spaces to swim, like all 'exotic' pets. No tank is ideal, but if you can adapt a bowl then really I dont see why a 'proper' fish tank would be much different.

For filtration he managed to adapt a pond filter.


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

Yes, it is perfectly possible. However, the following minimum conditions must be met:

+ at least 20 imperial gallons per fancy goldfish (the short, podgy ones)
+ a very powerful filtration system to cope with the epic waste these fish produce
+ a cycled filter with clean water (no ammonia or nitrites)
+ a minimum of 30-36" of straight-line swimming space (6" per inch of fish)
+ air-pump or some method of getting a lot of oxygen into the bowl

This means your bowl would need to be really huge. It would also need to have a hidden, but effective, filter. 

The only thing I can even think that would come close is the new 105 litre BiOrb. These will retail at well over £200, as far as I know. 

Another thing to consider is a highly social nature of these fish. They really prefer to be kept in small social groups. 

In short, a traditional goldfish bowl, even a "big" one, will not be suitable for the smallest commercially avaliable goldfish. 

Some goldfish info:

+ Fancy varieties (orandas, black moors, lionheads, etc) can reach between 6 and 10 inches as adults, sometimes bigger.
+ Single tailed varieties (commons, shubunkins, comets) can reach 12 inches with ease, with some specimens reaching closer to 24 inches (2 foot) 
+ Goldfish have a very plant heavy diet and due to their digestive system they poo almost constantly, and so need a powerful filter for their size
+ Goldfish become stunted in small tanks which is much like binding feet (a oriental practice) - it causes their bodies to become crushed and sometimes visibly deformed
+ Goldfish can live up to 40 years, more commonly15-20 with good care
+ Goldfish are probably the most widely abused pet species on the planet

There is loads more to learn about goldfish but that's just a taster. These guys are actually big, messy, boisterous fish. Those cute little things you see in shops are babies and most will die a painful and early death.


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## Ch+Stewie (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for all your advice guys... but I think i'll leave the fishies at the pet shop for someone else to take home. )


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

Could keep a small shoal of white cloud mountain minnoes in a large bowl, they are small like neons. Not a good place for gold fish as already said.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/c/c8/White_Cloud_Mountain_Minnow_1.jpg


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Assaye said:


> + Single tailed varieties (commons, shubunkins, comets) can reach 12 inches with ease, with some specimens reaching closer to 24 inches (2 foot)


Really?! :gasp: My 2 little shubbies (I am 99% positive they are shubbies) have hardly grown a centimetre since I first got them! They've been with me for nearly 9 months now, if not closer to a year.
The 2 shubunkins I had in the same tank before these guys (and since been relocated for no real reason) grew quite noticeably; one of them who is nearly 5 years old now has got up to almost 7 inches, possibly bigger.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

Assaye said:


> Yes, it is perfectly possible. However, the following minimum conditions must be met:
> 
> + at least 20 imperial gallons per fancy goldfish (the short, podgy ones)
> + a very powerful filtration system to cope with the epic waste these fish produce
> ...


:2thumb: brilliant post.



Ophexis said:


> Really?! :gasp: My 2 little shubbies (I am 99% positive they are shubbies) have hardly grown a centimetre since I first got them! They've been with me for nearly 9 months now, if not closer to a year.
> The 2 shubunkins I had in the same tank before these guys (and since been relocated for no real reason) grew quite noticeably; one of them who is nearly 5 years old now has got up to almost 7 inches, possibly bigger.


what size tank are you keeping them in? how often do you partial water change the tank? 7 inches for a 5 year old fish seems small, i would say it was stunted, shubunkins will easily top a foot long and have been grown to much larger sizes in ponds.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> what size tank are you keeping them in? how often do you partial water change the tank? 7 inches for a 5 year old fish seems small, i would say it was stunted, shubunkins will easily top a foot long and have been grown to much larger sizes in ponds.


I partial water change every week (I do slip sometimes to a fortnight but not often)
The smaller tank which is mine is 15-20 gallons, I think.
The larger tank which is my dad's, and the one the larger shubunkin has moved to, is 80 gallons. He too changes the water every week.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

15 -20 gallons isnt big enough for 1 shub really, especially not 2. the water change scedule is good though. 80g should be good for a pair or even 3 shubs/commons at a push.

wow, just noticed we have cats with the same name lol.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> 15 -20 gallons isnt big enough for 1 shub really, especially not 2. the water change scedule is good though. 80g should be good for a pair or even 3 shubs/commons at a push.
> 
> wow, just noticed we had cats with the same name lol


Well I'm not 100% they're shubbies, I can't remember what I bought them as... I was thinking of rehoming them at some point as I thought I may be somehow stunting their growth...

The 80 gallon tank now only has the one 7 inch shub in it now; there was a mystery illness that appeared in my dad's tank which decimated it bar my shub, his 12 inch plecostomus and his 8 year old black widow. The three of them still aren't looking their absolute best but they are on the mend 

And lol, small world, eh?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

single tailed slim bodied fish with calico colouring? shubs are always a mix of colours. i love shubs, especially bristol shubs. hopefully 1 day il have a large pond and have a nice school of them :2thumb: could you not add your fish to your dads tank so the goldfish can school together, they are socila species and enjoy company of their own kind.


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> no. its not a good idea. simple as that. even smaller fancy goldfish should reach 8" in length and can reach more depending on genetics, and are big bulky fish. they are also extremely social so to keep a single goldfish in solitary confinement is cruelty IMO. to subject a fish to a life with no room to swim, grow and exhibit some sort of natural behaviour before it dies prematurely through stunting of its growth is plain cruel.
> 
> this is a large adult fancy goldfish.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38066000/jpg/_38066879_bruce150.jpg
> ...


 so glad you fiund this before me, :no1: saved me having to write out an essay


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> single tailed slim bodied fish with calico colouring? shubs are always a mix of colours. i love shubs, especially bristol shubs. hopefully 1 day il have a large pond and have a nice school of them :2thumb: could you not add your fish to your dads tank so the goldfish can school together, they are socila species and enjoy company of their own kind.


Okay well the little guys certainly do not have mixed colouring - Kupo is pure white with an orange upper lip and Kweh is pure orange, I bought them with that colouration and there is no evidence to suggest they have acquired or lost any colouring... I shall have to try and get a piccy of them at some point.
Deyna, the largest, was definitely a shub - grey, silver, white, orange and black... before it all kind of faded away and he's now white with a few orange spots, we think the warmer temperatures of my dad's tropical tank may have aided in that.

I would have liked to put the two littleuns in with Deyna, but my dad wants to pursue an interest into the reptile hobby and is basically not intending on adding any more fish to his tank, and waiting on them to pass on (still looking after them until then though, obviously!) and I don't think it's fair that I give him my fishies and force him to put off his own interests any longer... and Deyna is just too big to come back to my little 20 gallon, as much as I love him to bits and was infuriated when my dad took him in the first place


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

aww, that goldfish needs a cool pond not tropical temperatures. its not good for them, they need high oxygen levels which they dont get as much in warmer temps. pity you cant take on the tank eh.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

goldie1212 said:


> aww, that goldfish needs a cool pond not tropical temperatures. its not good for them, they need high oxygen levels which they dont get as much in warmer temps. pity you cant take on the tank eh.


I know, I didn't like my fishies being taken away 'on holiday' only to be permanently left in that tank, I knew they'd prefer cooler temperatures and more than that, they were my babies! It does explain why Deyna hasn't been himself though since he was put in, the low oxygen levels - he's very lethargic these days, doesn't move much  I could maybe persuade dad to put an extra filter/air pump in... 
I would love to take on the tank and have a massive shoal of something small like danios or barbs, or a couple of goldies, but to be perfectly honest, it's not going to be around for much longer - as soon as these three remaining fish have popped it the plan right now is to sell the tank and replace with a vivarium - and there's no way that tank is going to fit in my bedroom :lol2:
Ah well, we'll always have the marine tank, and I'll have Kupo and Kweh :whistling2:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

can you not find him a new home now the weathers warmed up so he can live out his days in comfort rather than being stuck in too warmer tank? he will be fine onc ehe has aclimatised and will live a happier life than he is now.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

I could do that, yes, I can have a scout around... a friend of mine offered to take Kupo and Kweh when I was 'umm'ing and 'ahh'ing about why they weren't growing, but their tank is not much bigger than mine - if anything, it's smaller. I do know they have a pond, though... whether it is habitable is another matter entirely...


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

you could always advertise for someone with an established large pond to take him on. seems a terrible waste of a lovely fish for it to be stuck in less than ideal conditions. 

it sounds like your 2 fish are commons or comets by the way. they will grow as large as the shubunkin unless you keep them in the small tank and stunt them. might be an idea to rehome all 3 and find something that wont outgrow your tank :2thumb: i know its hard to give up loved pets but it would be best for them all.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

I do love them but stunting sounds so cruel, I may have to rehome them all  A shame really, always loved goldies but after all this time never realised they weren't suited to my size of tank... I'll look into getting them the conditions they deserve, if that's not with me, then so be it, as long as they're getting all they can from life


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

its so nice to hear someone willing to do the best for their fish instead of carrying on regardless. they will live a much healthier life in a large pond :no1: then you could maybe get a heater and get a school of rosey barbs or something, they look quite goldfish like but stay much smaller :2thumb:


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## hedgehog738 (Oct 6, 2009)

it could work with a fancy goldfish but the fish wont be happy and i doubt it will live long if you dont do water changes often.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

hedgehog738 said:


> it could work with a fancy goldfish but the fish wont be happy and i doubt it will live long if you dont do water changes often.


which in other words means it wont work surely??!! even with water changes the fish will grow too large to live happily.

looking at your signature and the huge overstocking of your 250L tank i can see why you may think it would work :gasp: i wouldnt have all those fish in my 400L tank...but thats a whole other thread.


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