# Boelens Pythons



## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I seem to ask this question on an annual basis but I am extremely keen to work with this species and think I could have something to offer in terms of my experience and 'midus touch' when it comes to breeding.

The price of this species (like many others) seems to be on the increase which makes obtaining one let alone a pair or group prohibitive. Not wishing to count any snakes before they hatch but I was hoping I may be able to afford one this season and one the next and so on and so forth.

Anyway, I guess what I am asking is does anyone have any leads as to available animals - I am keen not to start off with fresh imports if I can avoid it.

I have a soul or even a kidney I could part with in exchange or failing that hopefully some baby Angolan Pythons and / or Egyptian Tortoises to exchange.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I will let you know if I see any Fraser, I gave you the list of breeders in Europe I know of didn't I?


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks Tom, I am not sure you did. 



LiasisUK said:


> I will let you know if I see any Fraser, I gave you the list of breeders in Europe I know of didn't I?


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I will message you it on Facebook


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## rita (Dec 28, 2011)

I dont know if you would be prepared to import from europe, but theres a shop in paris called LA FERME TROPICAL, and they have some . They are asking 8,900 euro.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

rita said:


> I dont know if you would be prepared to import from europe, but theres a shop in paris called LA FERME TROPICAL, and they have some . They are asking 8,900 euro.


"Born in captivity in Indonesia" is trade-speak for wild caught.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

What a wonderful ambition Fraser 😁 

Souls n kidneys might not be the way to go.

Can I be a nominal patron, if you send me progress pics 🤩

I heard that Keith McPeek in US has successfully bred them?
Kevin McCurley also.
No idea about Europe.
There is a pair on MorphMarket, but imports if I recall.
For serious breeding, I feel like you ought to aim for multiple pairs, to avoid just creating a successful group of inbred, but initial cost outlays could be huge, and would you have the space for housing 4 pairs?

Such a beautiful species 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

Andy F


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I dont believe Kevin McCurley did breed them, its my understanding he imported them.

There's at least 3 European breeders of them. A guy in Sweden has had the most success.

The pair on EU morphmarket are Indo imports into Czech. If its the same ones I saw.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

There are 1 or 2 breeders in Europe and I think as you say, to stand any chance of breeding one would need at least 2.2 but the cost of 4 animals is far more than I can afford. In terms of space - I would MAKE space. 

I think that is the problem - 'normal' people just don't have the sort of cash required and thus the stimuli remains illusive. I am not saying I would guarantee success but I would give it a damn good go. 

Happy to send daily pictures with a big enough donation.




Swindinian said:


> What a wonderful ambition Fraser 😁
> 
> Souls n kidneys might not be the way to go.
> 
> ...


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## loxocemus (Sep 2, 2006)

you will get them fraser, i absolutely guarantee it, all you need is patience and build your war-chest relentlessly.

the mystery, the goddamn mystery of what makes them tick, why they exist at that height, why they look like they do, and the magic question, what tips them over into ovulation, will F1 be drastically different like most other species, maybe not drastically, just more obvious in their steps.

sorry fraser, i live vicariously thru your ambitions.

rgds
ed


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> There are 1 or 2 breeders in Europe and I think as you say, to stand any chance of breeding one would need at least 2.2 but the cost of 4 animals is far more than I can afford. In terms of space - I would MAKE space.
> 
> I think that is the problem - 'normal' people just don't have the sort of cash required and thus the stimuli remains illusive. I am not saying I would guarantee success but I would give it a damn good go.
> 
> Happy to send daily pictures with a big enough donation.


😁
Maybe you could set up a go fund me, and promise to share updates.

I know there are a lot of people who would settle with vicariously, just for the ride.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Whats available are illegally collected juveniles laughingly sold as farmed.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

ian14 said:


> Whats available are illegally collected juveniles laughingly sold as farmed.


I recall there used to be a permissible quota to export collected specimens. Is there now a complete ban on collection, so ‘captive farmed’ are just illegally trafficked animals taken from the wild?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Swindinian said:


> I recall there used to be a permissible quota to export collected specimens. Is there now a complete ban on collection, so ‘captive farmed’ are just illegally trafficked animals taken from the wild?


That I don't know. But look at it like this. There is a reason why it's nigh on impossible to get CB hatchlings bred outside Indonesia. Its because they are almost impossible to breed!! Now if the Indonesians have managed to crack captive breeding to the point that they hatching enough of them to sell round the world, then breeders in the US, Europe and the UK would also have the "recipe" to do the same.
This is why it is so obvious that these so called captive bred farmed Boelens are in fact wild caught.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

So as far as I'm aware the Indonesian authorities request evidence that the offspring are CB, this is the same for all the tree monitors as well. Breeding evidence in the form of photos etc. 
However once you have some photos of some, how would the authorities know which animals were actually in the images. The number of eggs produced by a female tree monitor is very small, yet the number of animals available to export is comparatively high. How many breeder animals do the farms have?.... a lot of questions


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

All sounds very disappointing and unsustainable. 

I hope the likes of Dan Mulleary can prosper more sustainable avenues from Indonesia.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

Maybe a win, win situation for all would be to identify a number of individuals (keepers) and give them some animals on loan from the Indonesian Government on breeding loan?

If these animals are 'known' or 'obviously' illegally collected animals why can't something be done about it? That is a rhetorical question as I know how this works in South Africa.

As much as I want to work with this species I DO NOT wish to push them further towards extinction.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Great idea. I'll take 4.4


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