# FAO Chris Newman



## lionfish

I apologise if this is in the wrong section , mods feel free to move to another section. Elaine Tolland of the Animal Protection Agency is giving a series of talks across the UK . I found this on Gumtree 

Exotic Animals as Pets - Elaine Toland - Animal Protection Agency in Bournemouth | Events, Gigs & Nightlife | Gumtree.com


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## SERC

this add has been removed.


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## lionfish

SERC said:


> this add has been removed.


It's been reposted ! click the link in my first post . Hmmmm Yummy vegan cakes .....


*Event date*

09/11/11
For this months meeting we welcome Elaine Toland (Director) 
Animal Protection Agency www.apa.org.uk 

Exotic Animals as Pets 

You would not keep a companion dog or cat in a cage, so why then do people find it acceptable to keep exotic animals in tanks or cages? 



Wednesday 9th November at St Michaels Church Hall, Poole Hill, Bournemouth at 8pm 

www.bournemouthanimalaid.org.uk/map.php 

All are welcome - free admission. 

Refreshments and Yummy vegan cakes!! 

Are you interested in a more ethical, healthy and cruelty-free lifestyle? Here is your chance to meet like minded people. 
Do you love animals? 
Topical talks, film showings, information tables. 

MEETINGS HELD MONTHLY 2nd Wednesday of every month. 

If you would like to be involved in our groups activities please let us know. Hope to see you there, 

Bournemouth and Poole Animal Aid 
http://www.bournemouthanimalaid.org.uk 

http://www.facebook.com/.bournemouth.animalaid


It's also on the A.P.A facebook page here 

http://www.facebook.com/bournemouth.animalaid#!/event.php?eid=115310005243750


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## Chris Newman

lionfish said:


> I apologise if this is in the wrong section , mods feel free to move to another section. Elaine Tolland of the Animal Protection Agency is giving a series of talks across the UK . I found this on Gumtree
> 
> Exotic Animals as Pets - Elaine Toland - Animal Protection Agency in Bournemouth | Events, Gigs & Nightlife | Gumtree.com


Sorry I missed this post earlier, it is a pity as I could have popped along……..


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## Salazare Slytherin

It wont be the last one they do though, and what a complete and utter preposterouse anology.

They need to be in vivs and tanks because they have specialist lighting and heating needs!

You know what, there is alot of things I hate in this world, it doesn't mean I am going to go out of my way and waste my life trying to change it. sheesh.


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## Noofy

Salazare Slytherin said:


> It wont be the last one they do though, and what a complete and utter preposterouse anology.
> 
> They need to be in vivs and tanks because they have specialist lighting and heating needs!
> 
> You know what, there is alot of things I hate in this world, it doesn't mean I am going to go out of my way and waste my life trying to change it. sheesh.


Glad someone pointed it out. I actually had to read through the thread a couple of times incase i was missing the point...


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## blood and guts

my old friend toland, may have to ask her out again but i got a feeling im not her type. I got a snake:whistling2::whistling2:


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## love_reptiles

It would be good if someone could go along and educate this lady. 

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's people who have and encourage others to adopt such uneducational judgements on such things without any knowledge on the matter whatsoever. 

Because animals would be so much better off being kept outside of vivariums where you could not even meet the most basic requirements for the animals. 

More to the point, in her quote regarding cats and dogs, because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals that have been bred to such an extent that not only do they not require the specialist conditions that for example reptiles do, but they thrive in any household conditions. Because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals which are bred to the point they are serious problem and tens of thousands are put down in rescues every year.

So, this lady justifies the keeping of such domesticated animals that despite the fact have such basic needs so many still end up unwanted, abandoned and abused every year, yet condemns exotics keeping? Hmm. Maybe if this woman fought so hard to get the average tom dick and harry dog and cat keeper to take a leaf out of an exotics keepers book and adopt their standards of care, domesticated animals wouldn't be in such a state. I see far more domesticated rabbits being kept without their basic needs in hutches, than any exotic animal group put together that do not have their basic needs being met in a vivarium. 

Just my 2 pence that the general exotics keeper provide a much better standard of care to exotics on the whole than the domestic animals recieve on the whole. :hmm:


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## Noofy

love_reptiles said:


> It would be good if someone could go along and educate this lady.
> 
> If it's one thing I can't stand, it's people who have and encourage others to adopt such uneducational judgements on such things without any knowledge on the matter whatsoever.
> 
> Because animals would be so much better off being kept outside of vivariums where you could not even meet the most basic requirements for the animals.
> 
> More to the point, in her quote regarding cats and dogs, because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals that have been bred to such an extent that not only do they not require the specialist conditions that for example reptiles do, but they thrive in any household conditions. Because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals which are bred to the point they are serious problem and tens of thousands are put down in rescues every year.
> 
> So, this lady justifies the keeping of such domesticated animals that despite the fact have such basic needs so many still end up unwanted, abandoned and abused every year, yet condemns exotics keeping? Hmm. Maybe if this woman fought so hard to get the average tom dick and harry dog and cat keeper to take a leaf out of an exotics keepers book and adopt their standards of care, domesticated animals wouldn't be in such a state. I see far more domesticated rabbits being kept without their basic needs in hutches, than any exotic animal group put together that do not have their basic needs being met in a vivarium.
> 
> Just my 2 pence that the general exotics keeper provide a much better standard of care to exotics on the whole than the domestic animals recieve on the whole. :hmm:


Well spoken! :notworthy:


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## jojobeans123

love_reptiles said:


> It would be good if someone could go along and educate this lady.
> 
> If it's one thing I can't stand, it's people who have and encourage others to adopt such uneducational judgements on such things without any knowledge on the matter whatsoever.
> 
> Because animals would be so much better off being kept outside of vivariums where you could not even meet the most basic requirements for the animals.
> 
> More to the point, in her quote regarding cats and dogs, because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals that have been bred to such an extent that not only do they not require the specialist conditions that for example reptiles do, but they thrive in any household conditions. Because exotic pets really are domesticated mammals which are bred to the point they are serious problem and tens of thousands are put down in rescues every year.
> 
> So, this lady justifies the keeping of such domesticated animals that despite the fact have such basic needs so many still end up unwanted, abandoned and abused every year, yet condemns exotics keeping? Hmm. Maybe if this woman fought so hard to get the average tom dick and harry dog and cat keeper to take a leaf out of an exotics keepers book and adopt their standards of care, domesticated animals wouldn't be in such a state. I see far more domesticated rabbits being kept without their basic needs in hutches, than any exotic animal group put together that do not have their basic needs being met in a vivarium.
> 
> Just my 2 pence that the general exotics keeper provide a much better standard of care to exotics on the whole than the domestic animals recieve on the whole. :hmm:


 
I'll second that - well said mate!! :2thumb:

Would be interesting to hear her views on keeping reps and how to maintain their care without a viv etc.... some people!! :devil:


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## blood and guts

love_reptiles said:


> It would be good if someone could go along and educate this lady.


I speak from hands on experience here, she cant be educated on our side of the story. Trust me many of us have tried but she is both firm in her beliefs and loving the income working in rights can bring.

Playing devils advocate a little here but we as a hobby do give them way to much ammo though, look at many of the morphs and the greed, health issues and drop in standards its bought. Look at the amount of "pets" bought and traded like cards and the endless cases we see of poorly kept animals and lack of basic reserch. 

The only way we will ever truly fight these people is for our own house to be in order but sadly im not going to hold my breath on that one ever happening..


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## Kiel

I notice she's not fighting for the protection of hamsters. They're kept in cages too. The difference is, they COULD live free in a house (minus cats i guess lol) whereas reptiles, as mentioned before, have specific needs.

FIGHT FOR THE PROTECTION OF HAMSTERS AND GERBILS!


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## Twiglet

I wonder if she still keeps beardies? :hmm:


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## Turner89

Hello, 
Im a long time keeper of exotic pets, started with a rescued royal 13 years ago and have now developed a small menagerie.
ive heard about this talk from one of my friends in bournemoth, apparently it was well advertised there?
Anyway all ive been able to find has been on how they are caught. :S
Those that know what they are talking about know most reptiles are bred in the UK at home!
This surely needs to be countered! if 8 million reptiles are pets in the UK then pretty much most (if not all) of these are bred here!
Does anyone know (or can estimate) the actual fact and figures as to how many are actually bred in the UK as i would be more than happy to volunteer myself to counter this!
Also its a shame that those that do take good care of exotic animals are penialised, unlike those who do neglect domestic pets and bring them up poorly


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## Chris Newman

Turner89 said:


> Hello,
> Im a long time keeper of exotic pets, started with a rescued royal 13 years ago and have now developed a small menagerie.
> ive heard about this talk from one of my friends in bournemoth, apparently it was well advertised there?
> Anyway all ive been able to find has been on how they are caught. :S
> Those that know what they are talking about know most reptiles are bred in the UK at home!
> This surely needs to be countered! if 8 million reptiles are pets in the UK then pretty much most (if not all) of these are bred here!
> Does anyone know (or can estimate) the actual fact and figures as to how many are actually bred in the UK as i would be more than happy to volunteer myself to counter this!
> Also its a shame that those that do take good care of exotic animals are penialised, unlike those who do neglect domestic pets and bring them up poorly


The numbers of animals kept is biased on the volume of food sold, so its reasonably accurate, or as accurate as we can get. The estimate of 8 million reptiles kept is conservative. Estimating the numbers of animals bred is much more difficult, the numbers imported from outside the EU are around 160,000 a year into the UK. We estimate the numbers bred in the UK are in the region of 300,000.


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## SuperSpeedyWheels

I have a bonsai tree..

Its kept in a tiny pot... much smaller than the amount of soil it needs to grow to its full potential.

It cries to me daily... 'BENJAMIN why am I kept so small?'

And I cackle....

Because Yoshimitsu ..(thats his name) ... 'Because the apa dont care about YOU'

He wishes the apa would come and save him, but they dont care about trees.. they discriminate, and thats a crime in itself.


But seriously.. let the apa go around talking crap... nod and smile and let them eat quorn bacon.. then laugh to yourself (whilst you enjoy real tasty bacon sandwhiches) about how deluded and insane those people that support the apa are.


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## Turner89

Thanks very much Chris. That's very helpful.
The measuring of food is a very effective way really!
So the 300,000 estimate is what are bred in the UK each year? 
I'll use that figure to combat what they have said! shall I refer any queries I get to FBH/REPTA or back to this thread?

Thank you for your reply


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## Turner89

I’m still waiting for Chris Newman to get back on this, as I need to confirm info before I can use it. 

But my plan, first off, is to challenge Elaine Toland directly at one of her talks. Does anyone have details of upcoming dates/venues? Also, would anyone else volunteer to come with me? Ideally someone who can help me with challenging her (politely, as she will probably have a sympathetic audience). I’m based in Shropshire and am prepared to travel a fair distance. Anyone up for it?


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## blood and guts

Turner89 said:


> I’m still waiting for Chris Newman to get back on this, as I need to confirm info before I can use it.
> 
> But my plan, first off, is to challenge Elaine Toland directly at one of her talks. Does anyone have details of upcoming dates/venues? Also, would anyone else volunteer to come with me? Ideally someone who can help me with challenging her (politely, as she will probably have a sympathetic audience). I’m based in Shropshire and am prepared to travel a fair distance. Anyone up for it?


Chris is a very busy man and does not get a lot of time to follow posts on the forums these days.
As for towag trust me your wasting your time, she wont listen to any other side other then her own and the crowd will be bought into her way of thinking at most of these things. The best way to fight these numptys is to help improve the hobby, shops and so on. we now have biiger enemys then this nut job to worry about so go look at the thread on eps for starters..


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## goldenburm

Yep the ol ToeBag is sooo blinkered im suprised she can see her own nose now she's cut it off soo many times to spite her face LOL!

honestly she should be driven around ina solar powered horse box the size of blinkers that deluded lady wears!!

Many of us from the old Cviewmedia days remember some lovely debates - she is only a tiny speck of the problems we face. As already stated the biggest danger to us keeping is ourselves!!! how many retiles are not being kept with correct light, hea etc some by ignorance, some by poor advice from breeder shop etc and some through sheer stupidity cos 'they look alright, they are feeding so i dont need uvb with my iggy, beardy etc'.

This is where our main focus needs to lie as if we do things right they have no ammunition - FACT!

many of those who campaign hardest are failed reptile breeders and importers who couldnt make it work so no one can! - Remind u of anyone!!!?

Sorry I normaly stay in the back ground now after being a fairly vocal person 5-10 years ago but we as a hobby have to look within first before we can ever change even some peoples opinions!!!


Rant over and he gingerly steps down off his soap box LOL

Pete


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## blood and guts

goldenburm said:


> Yep the ol ToeBag is sooo blinkered im suprised she can see her own nose now she's cut it off soo many times to spite her face LOL!
> 
> honestly she should be driven around ina solar powered horse box the size of blinkers that deluded lady wears!!
> 
> Many of us from the old Cviewmedia days remember some lovely debates - she is only a tiny speck of the problems we face. As already stated the biggest danger to us keeping is ourselves!!! how many retiles are not being kept with correct light, hea etc some by ignorance, some by poor advice from breeder shop etc and some through sheer stupidity cos 'they look alright, they are feeding so i dont need uvb with my iggy, beardy etc'.
> 
> This is where our main focus needs to lie as if we do things right they have no ammunition - FACT!
> 
> many of those who campaign hardest are failed reptile breeders and importers who couldnt make it work so no one can! - Remind u of anyone!!!?
> 
> Sorry I normaly stay in the back ground now after being a fairly vocal person 5-10 years ago but we as a hobby have to look within first before we can ever change even some peoples opinions!!!
> 
> 
> Rant over and he gingerly steps down off his soap box LOL
> 
> Pete


dont need to step off somthing thats flattened mate:Na_Na_Na_Na:

the old cview days where fun, i really miss turdle and potboy :whistling2:


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## Turner89

Thanks, I guess you’re probably right. I just wanted to put Toland on the spot. 
I think i mite got to the local chronicle instead, as they are always intrested in opinions on different issues for readers, just to make sure we dont go without an opinion!
If Chris Newman is unavailable then perhaps another expert from REPTA/FBH (which one?) can authorise me to include this reference in the following letter:

*Dear Sir/Madam

I have been a reptile keeper for 13 years and am proud to be part of a hobby that is contributing to husbandry knowledge on a whole range of species.

Some of your readers may not be aware that there now as many reptiles kept as pets as there are dogs. The Federation of British Herpetologists (and/or REPTA?) estimate that 300,000 reptiles are captive-bred in the UK every year for pets.

There are many good reasons that reptiles are popular pets, not least that they are clean, quiet, do well in captivity and you don’t need to take them for a walk!* 

Any other suggestions are fine but I need to keep it short.


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## Turner89

Is anybody out there? I really want to get the ball rolling on this. Does anyone have contact details for Chris Newman or any of this colleagues – I can’t find them online anywhere?


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## Chris Newman

Turner89 said:


> Is anybody out there? I really want to get the ball rolling on this. Does anyone have contact details for Chris Newman or any of this colleagues – I can’t find them online anywhere?


My email address is: [email protected] or my phone number 023 8044 0999


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## pam b

goldenburm said:


> Yep the ol ToeBag is sooo blinkered im suprised she can see her own nose now she's cut it off soo many times to spite her face LOL!
> 
> honestly she should be driven around ina solar powered horse box the size of blinkers that deluded lady wears!!
> 
> Many of us from the old Cviewmedia days remember some lovely debates - she is only a tiny speck of the problems we face. As already stated the biggest danger to us keeping is ourselves!!! how many retiles are not being kept with correct light, hea etc some by ignorance, some by poor advice from breeder shop etc and some through sheer stupidity cos 'they look alright, they are feeding so i dont need uvb with my iggy, beardy etc'.
> 
> This is where our main focus needs to lie as if we do things right they have no ammunition - FACT!
> 
> many of those who campaign hardest are failed reptile breeders and importers who couldnt make it work so no one can! - Remind u of anyone!!!?
> 
> Sorry I normaly stay in the back ground now after being a fairly vocal person 5-10 years ago but we as a hobby have to look within first before we can ever change even some peoples opinions!!!
> 
> 
> Rant over and he gingerly steps down off his soap box LOL
> 
> Pete





blood and guts said:


> dont need to step off somthing thats flattened mate:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> the old cview days where fun, i really miss turdle and potboy :whistling2:


Those were the days eh lads, kindda miss keeping Chris on his toes and the threat of a smacking. OOER Chris you naughty boy you!:lol2:


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## blood and guts

pam b said:


> Those were the days eh lads, kindda miss keeping Chris on his toes and the threat of a smacking. OOER Chris you naughty boy you!:lol2:


wasent there fish involved some where in all this smacking?:lol2:


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## pam b

blood and guts said:


> wasent there fish involved some where in all this smacking?:lol2:


Aye, and theres pictures around someplace to prove the threat was carried out on his behalf! :lol2:


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## Chris Newman

Be carful or I will be forced to dig the kipper out of the freezer!


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## pam b

Chris Newman said:


> Be carful or I will be forced to dig the kipper out of the freezer!


Mo had to wear rubber gloves as well because she's alergic.:lol2:


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