# keeping amphibians outdoors



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Now its getting near to springtime, I suggest that anybody who has ever considered keeping amphibians outside in a more naturalistic way and in a much bigger set up than can be offered in a tank or viv in the house, please read the posts and join this forum
Outdoor Vivaria - Home?

[European, newts, and salamanders do particularly well if enclosure prperly constructed]


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Interesting site. I always advise people to keep European common frogs and American bullfrogs outside- they do better at lower temperatures. I'm quite surprised by the range of species here, though.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool, will have a nose.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Outdoor Vivaria - European Green Tree Frog Greenhouse and Pond

This is cool. Not so large you'd lose them but nice and large for the frogs to jump about.

A greenhouse of H.Arborea sounds awesome......bar the noise.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Caroline's going to hate me.

WHEN WE GET A GARDEN I'M GETTING ONE OF THESE. IT WILL GO NEXT TO THE KOI POND. THE KOI POND WILL BE NEXT TO THE FROG POND.


----------



## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

I joined this a few months back on morgs advice Not posted yet just nose about abit as I'm thinking of trying an outdoor enclosure for my 9 fire sals. 6 have morphed and the last 3 I'm waiting on have the tiniest gill things so won't be too long.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

jme2049 said:


> I joined this a few months back on morgs advice Not posted yet just nose about abit as I'm thinking of trying an outdoor enclosure for my 9 fire sals. 6 have morphed and the last 3 I'm waiting on have the tiniest gill things so won't be too long.


I definitely want one when I get a garden. You could have any viv size you like and will hardly cost anything.


----------



## jme2049 (Jan 11, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I definitely want one when I get a garden. You could have any viv size you like and will hardly cost anything.


I know, the top off my garden is hardly used so I can't see my parents having a problem with it. I pretty much do what I want out there anyway, I put in a pond one weekend when they were away:lol2:


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I did that, then my mum filled it in.

I want a garden now. You can get loads of wild moss growing, will look sweet.

I'd probably have some YBT or H.Arborea.


----------



## bellabelloo (Mar 31, 2007)

I am currently aiming to put my fire salamanders in an out door enclosure. I was looking to use a cold frame as the basis ....but my father has become involved. They may well end up with a palace!


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

bellabelloo said:


> I am currently aiming to put my fire salamanders in an out door enclosure. I was looking to use a cold frame as the basis ....but my father has become involved. They may well end up with a palace!


Just make sure they can't dig under the walls!


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

Heres a link to my fire sal enclosure, although the plants have gone mad since then, and I have to clear a lot of helxine from it a few times a year.
The fire sals in it are out and about now after spending the colder months underground in the hibernaculum
Outdoor Vivaria - s s terrestris enclosure


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Just make sure they can't dig under the walls!


Good advice- those 'phibs are well sneaky. Personally, I don't really have a problem with captive herps becoming naturalised- our native herps are pretty boring, compared to mainland Europe, IMO, but I* am* aware that it is illegal to deliberately release them.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Good advice- those 'phibs are well sneaky. Personally, I don't really have a problem with captive herps becoming naturalised- our native herps are pretty boring, compared to mainland Europe, IMO, but I* am* aware that it is illegal to deliberately release them.


Yeah, for obvious reasons.

Morg, do you find heat in the summer is an issue? Especially for sals?

Do those size holes keep out rodents?


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> *Yeah, for obvious reasons.*
> 
> Morg, do you find heat in the summer is an issue? Especially for sals?
> 
> Do those size holes keep out rodents?


So the entire country would go to hell if a few salamanders started breeding? The main reason this country is so poor in plant and animal species is that they were killed off by the last Ice Age, and didn't get a chance to replenish before the Channel opened up. Ireland is even worse off. We aren't talking cane toads here, just natural European natives- although I am sure there are still colonies of American bullfrogs and corn snakes, here and there :lol2:


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> So the entire country would go to hell if a few salamanders started breeding? The main reason this country is so poor in plant and animal species is that they were killed off by the last Ice Age, and didn't get a chance to replenish before the Channel opened up. Ireland is even worse off. We aren't talking cane toads here, just natural European natives- although I am sure there are still colonies of American bullfrogs and corn snakes, here and there :lol2:


Yes, that's exactly what I meant.


----------



## morg (Jul 20, 2007)

The place the enclosure is situated only catches a few hours of full sun late afternoon in the summer, but with it being made from breeze blocks it stays shaded inside.
I could not use a cold frame or simular in its place as then it would overheat .
Also with it having a deep hibernaculum, the sals can easily escape underground should the temperatures get too high


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What's a hibernaculum?


----------



## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Its the overwintering enclosure - think there was a thread way back from Andrew showing how to build one


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

berksmike said:


> Its the overwintering enclosure - think there was a thread way back from Andrew showing how to build one


I'll look.


----------



## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Might have been from his old forum but sure he'd give few tips.
Its just a place (often underground) which they can use for brummation. Often I think they are made in styrofoam and filled with leaves, small logs etc.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I googled.

It's just a safe, warm place for hibernation really.


----------



## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Found this from RSPB site:
The RSPB: Advice: Building a hibernaculum


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)




----------



## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

In my old house I just covered a pile of old logs with leaves and some old turf and left openings to get in but that looks like a palace! (Although that was just for wild phibs in the garden)


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I wonder if there's enough room on my balcony. It's frosted glass and shaded most of the day.

I'm sure a 4 x 4 would fit......


----------



## berksmike (Jan 2, 2008)

Bye bye balcony lol


----------



## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I wonder if there's enough room on my balcony. It's frosted glass and shaded most of the day.
> 
> I'm sure a 4 x 4 would fit......


Be careful that it doesn`t get too cold in the winter as they wont be able to bury down below the frost line.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

colinm said:


> Be careful that it doesn`t get too cold in the winter as they wont be able to bury down below the frost line.


Yeah depth is an issue, I don't think it will work.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I can probably stretch to 3 feet depth, but I'm worried about waterlogging. I couldn't have it free draining as it would drip onto the balcony below.

Opinions?

I'll try and grab a photo of the space.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

As you can see, it's just a dumping ground, the space is about 4 x 5ft. It's on the side of the house and never gets direct sunlight.

Only issue is depth and drainage.

Just playing with the idea anyway, no cash to do it right now.


----------



## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Im going to build a few outdoor enclosures this year, already got a 10x8 greenhouse i used to use in the summer for breeding treefrogs im going to use this for H.Arborea and yellow bellys all year.
Also going to add a couple more enclosures for B.viridis and pool frogs and things


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Minimum depth anyone?


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Anyone?

I figured if I can build a hibernaculum 3ft would be ok?


----------



## richie.b (Oct 27, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Anyone?
> 
> I figured if I can build a hibernaculum 3ft would be ok?


I dont know if its going to work, youll need to insulate the soil area properly to stop the soil freezing solid in the winter,i know my raised pond always freezes easier than the ones in the ground, also what about the weight. Also is it in full sun in the summer 
What was you thinking of making


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I could stretch to 4ft.

No direct sun and blocked from wind/rain.

Weight? Bah. Could be an issue.

I was thinking of some fire sals, I miss keeping them.


----------



## Bug_Juice (Apr 2, 2010)

You might need to be inventive, but depending on how you set things up, it shouldn't be too hard to add a small heater with thermostat (e.g. for Greenhouses) just to keep things from getting seriously cold in there.


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Or set up an enclosure for the warmer months out there and bring them in for the winter?


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Ron Magpie said:


> Or set up an enclosure for the warmer months out there and bring them in for the winter?


My flat is too warm though.


----------



## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Hibernate them in the fridge.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

colinm said:


> Hibernate them in the fridge.


What temp should they be at? I'll need to got the OH's go ahead. I would have thought constantly opening and closing, bashing about would disturb them.


----------



## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Just above freezing about 4-5 c.Pop them in the salad cooler part,and make sure that they dont freeze.I pop them in tubs of sphagnum moss.Its best not to let friends in the fridge though :gasp:


----------



## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

*outdoor vivs*

I would be careful about housing species out doors especially in the south east of England I lost 10 Dendrobates Azureus feeding wild could flies of my lawn a few years back.
Our wildlife friendly garden and ponds had become infected with the Rana Virus and I lost the collection in a weekend. I later found dead common frogs in and around the pond over the following weeks and months.

I believe even birds bathing in the outdoor viv pools can spread the infection if they have visited infected ponds before hand,. keep any areas escape proof and impregnable if I was you.
Dean


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

james dean said:


> I would be careful about housing species out doors especially in the south east of England I lost 10 Dendrobates Azureus feeding wild could flies of my lawn a few years back.
> Our wildlife friendly garden and ponds had become infected with the Rana Virus and I lost the collection in a weekend. I later found dead common frogs in and around the pond over the following weeks and months.
> 
> I believe even birds bathing in the outdoor viv pools can spread the infection if they have visited infected ponds before hand,. keep any areas escape proof and impregnable if I was you.
> Dean


Def a major point for garden enclosures, although Morgan is talking about a balcony.

@Morgan: I have a solidly enclosed (concrete) balcony on the first/second floor of my block, because of the height it never actually gets frosted (I have Mediteranean plants that regularely make it through the winter), but I would still be pretty dubious about 'phibs out there all winter. For fridge hibernation, check out the threads/stickies on Shelled- a lot of them do it every year.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

What's the deal with tortoises outdoors/indoors?


----------



## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok, simply, tortoise keepers usually provide an open-topped 'table' (bookcase on it's back, to the rest of us!:lol2 with lamps to provide an indoor environment for the (mostly Mediteranean) torts in bad weather during the warmer months, with an outdoor, slightly more secure version for good weather. The theory is that vivs are bad for most tortoises, as humidity builds up and causes respiratory problems. Most keepers seem to feel that actual hibernation is best for their long-term health, so they try to do it every year.


----------



## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi Sorry
I hadn't picked up on the balcony side of the thread I was concerned with the member who wanted to annex part of his parents garden to build out door pond enclosures.

It's been so long since I posted here there is rather a lot to catch up with, I even had to requester!!
Dean


----------

