# Building a viv from scratch?



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Hi I havnt owned reptiles before and am looking to either keep beardies, which I have been researching the basics, or a water dragon, Ive heared water dragons are not a beginner thing to keep, but since ive been keeping fish for a while and theres a giant learning curve. Thinking if i cover all the essentials and continue to research its a possibility?
Ive been looking at vivs for months, and theyre so expensive! anyone on here made their own vivs at a reasonable price?
If I was to keep beardies Id like to keep one from one from a little'n in a full sized vivarium, all the upsizing seems a bit of a con.
And Im not too up on a vertical setup for the water dragon.
So yeah any advice on making a decent setup, cheap reliable glass etc...
Would like a completely glass viv, but looks like might have to be MDF.
any advice would be great.
Cheers


----------



## holz986 (Mar 3, 2011)

I built a 4 foot viv from scratch turned out cheaper but not by much. I used a decent finished wood as its more hygenic for the animal and the glass wasnt that expensive for the doors. I paid about £70 to build mine its about 4x2x3. Sometimes (depending on species and individual animals) upsizing is neccesary as some do not like to be in such open spaces specially if your getting a beardie from a baby as they can be quite tiny and too much space can (but not always) stress them out. Thats my experience anyways:2thumb:


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Contiboard from B&Q - get them to cut it to size with you. Don't use Homebase board -it's 15mm instead of 18mm, which doesn't sound a lot, but it is.

Use 20mm rigid joints (prod code K2216) to join pieces together (inside the viv).

Glass and runners from any decent glazier.

Vents - also from B&Q.

Simples!:2thumb:

You won't save that much, but it's a little cheaper. If you can wait until they have a sale on, even better.


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Cheers, Ill keep an eye out.
As for the beardy getting stressed out in a big viv...what baffles me is in the wild, their tank is the world, Ive heread they grow quite fast anyway?


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

*Good deal?*

Would I need anything else to go with this!!??

Vivarium 1000mm x 480mm x 480mm
Heater
Thermostat all set and ready to use. (including guide book)
UV Light
UV Light timer (adjustable)
Lino flooring
2 Hides
Branch climber
Rocks for basking
Bath/Water dish
Food Bowl
2 leaf branches
Climber backing


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

A 1000x480x480 viv is a bit small. It'll be OK for a youngster, but as you'll need a bigger one eventually, why not get it straight away? In mm, you will need roughly 1250x600x600.

Have you got thermometer(s)? The "temperature" gauge on the thermostat is not accurate, so you need to set temps and then check them with a thermometer. Use a good one to set temps if you can.


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Jeffers3 said:


> A 1000x480x480 viv is a bit small. It'll be OK for a youngster, but as you'll need a bigger one eventually, why not get it straight away? In mm, you will need roughly 1250x600x600.
> 
> Have you got thermometer(s)? The "temperature" gauge on the thermostat is not accurate, so you need to set temps and then check them with a thermometer. Use a good one to set temps if you can.


This is a tank someone might still have for sale on gumtree, and those measurments were cm's :2thumb:
oh shit maybe not haha I got confused
I got confused again, so a meter wouldnt be good for an adult?


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

A 4ft viv is the minimum recommended for an adult. 1 metre is about 3ft 3 inches. Alternatively 4 ft is close to 1230mm (so 1250 would be fine).


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Ill give that a miss then, I wanna get an adult sized one straight away to save spending silly amounts of money, and divide it off while it grows, is this possible?


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

nathanayers said:


> Ill give that a miss then, I wanna get an adult sized one straight away to save spending silly amounts of money, and divide it off while it grows, is this possible?


It's possible, but i never bothered. Hagrid went straight into his adult viv. If you look at my photos, you'll see that he wasn't exactly massive when I got him!


----------



## thething84 (Apr 26, 2010)

i have put my little straight into the 4ft viv. just have to make sur if you feed them int he viv, the food is put in front of them in a catchable distance. otehrwise they can struggle to find it


----------



## SteamedPolecat (Apr 11, 2011)

viv exotic EX55.

rather than build one this kinda size, i'd buy it, i'd only build a huge viv (6 foot+)

an EX55 would be the best pre built i can think of. probly fit 2 dragons in with ease. about £140 though...


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

You won't save a great deal of money making your own tbh, but it is a great experience. My first build was a 7ft ish square stack of 8 vivs lol.
You are better off getting the largest viv recommended for any reptile you get this will cut down on having to pay out to rehouse it if it decides to grow into a monster lol


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Cheers all. Im looking at a site with free postage and the viv exotic EX55 is £153. How much would I be looking at with all the extras?
Putting a baby beardie in a full size and feeding it...Are there any slower prey it could eat in close proximity, im guessing crickets would do what they do best and jump away. Unless I bought a glass box to put over the two while he feeds until hes big enough?

What specifications would I be looking at if I was to keep a water dragon? I know people say its not a beginner species, but I figure if ive got good at keeping fish now, cant be half bad at making sure I got all the bases covered in reptile keeping?


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

nathanayers said:


> Cheers all. Im looking at a site with free postage and the viv exotic EX55 is £153. How much would I be looking at with all the extras?
> Putting a baby beardie in a full size and feeding it...Are there any slower prey it could eat in close proximity, im guessing crickets would do what they do best and jump away. Unless I bought a glass box to put over the two while he feeds until hes big enough?
> 
> What specifications would I be looking at if I was to keep a water dragon? I know people say its not a beginner species, but I figure if ive got good at keeping fish now, cant be half bad at making sure I got all the bases covered in reptile keeping?


No good with all other questions but for slower prey just snip jumping legs off locusts, they walk pretty slow then and use a mealworm bowl with mealies in too


----------



## jetski (Apr 7, 2008)

building a viv 15 years ago was common place because purpose made vivs were massively expensive, and the quality wasnt too great, most had hardboard backs. most vivs today are better made and far cheaper, its just not worth making your own if your going to make one a standard shape and size. check this one out for £120, although not sure of the deliver charge, they say £4 plus 20p for every kg.... so who knows lol

Vivexotic Ex55 Ellmau Beech - Surrey Pet Supplies


----------



## jetski (Apr 7, 2008)

this ones 4x2x2 ish for just £87
Vivexotic Ex48 Ellmau Beech - Surrey Pet Supplies


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Cheers, I think Ill go all out on a big'n. If I get that at the end of the month, then buy everything piece by piece.
How much do you all spend in a year roughly on food? and where do you get it from? ebay seems ok


----------



## jetski (Apr 7, 2008)

a year? christ! no idea... just a few quid a week. I get crickets from surrey pet supplies for £1.38 a tub or 1000 medium for £10. cracking deal, although its £4 delivery but if your buying other stuff too it still works out a good deal. and that amount will last ages. I buy salad bags for £1 each, you can get variety leaves, I also get water cress, spinach, rocket, kale and a whole host of other salads, all prepared ready for me. probably an expensive way of buying but its so convenient. fruit n veg doesn't really add up yo much because they get a bit of what I have. if you want to save money breeding roaches and mealworms is vertically effort free. oh and im feeding 4 btw


----------



## s3xy_sheep (Jan 28, 2009)

for your viv try volly on ere he's very reasonable with his prices


----------



## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

if your planning on building one still...http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/470803-how-build-your-own-wooden.html

i made a big viv 3ftx5ftx2ft for just under £80 using this (thers a pics of mine)


----------



## thething84 (Apr 26, 2010)

at the moment my baby beardie is eating about 500-600 crickets a week, so thats about 8 quid, a tub of locusts, 2 quid. and what ever veg i give. plus ur calcium and nutrobol.


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

thething84 said:


> at the moment my baby beardie is eating about 500-600 crickets a week, so thats about 8 quid, a tub of locusts, 2 quid. and what ever veg i give. plus ur calcium and nutrobol.


That seems an awful lot to me, my mums adult only eats 2 boxes plus veg and she is a porker


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

s3xy_sheep said:


> for your viv try volly on ere he's very reasonable with his prices


Is volly a member on here or a shop?
By the looks of that article though building one looks quite fun, could do a custom job on it 
Since Id be keeping the viv for the long run, thinking about buying bits here and there over a period of months while I look into how to properly care for the dragons. Would some nice hardwoods like pine or beech be safe for them? Dunno if I asked that already


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

nathanayers said:


> Is volly a member on here or a shop?
> By the looks of that article though building one looks quite fun, could do a custom job on it
> Since Id be keeping the viv for the long run, thinking about buying bits here and there over a period of months while I look into how to properly care for the dragons. Would some nice hardwoods like pine or beech be safe for them? Dunno if I asked that already


Volly is a member but he is having a few personal problems atm so i don't know if he is still making vivs for the minute. Fruit wood is safe as far as i know but i know pine is a NO NO


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

Pine is fine as long as you seal it right


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

I3arry said:


> Pine is fine as long as you seal it right


What about the long term effects of it heating up/cooling in viv ?? Surely it is just safer to use wood that is already considered safe ??


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

And thats why you seal it


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

I3arry said:


> And thats why you seal it


Yus but the heat from lamps etc and the activity of the reptile over time will wear on this 'seal' and over time the wood will again become exposed. Like i said is there any reason to use anything that could be even a small risk when there are many safer alternatives ??? I know i would never put pine of any description in with any of my lot, snakes, lizards and even inverts tbh


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

People say conti is the best thing to use, can you be 100% that any pine chips have not been used in its making? and conti edges arn't even sealed half the time

Using multiple layers of varnish is a great way to seal woods and even with wear it will last alot longer than anything lamanated like conti 

Everyone has their own opinion on whats best


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

I3arry said:


> People say conti is the best thing to use, can you be 100% that any pine chips have not been used in its making? and conti edges arn't even sealed half the time
> 
> Using multiple layers of varnish is a great way to seal woods and even with wear it will last alot longer than anything lamanated like conti
> 
> Everyone has their own opinion on whats best


I get what you are saying and technically it should be safe once sealed but the toxins in pine are released when the wood gets warm or wet, which is going to happen in a viv.

I can't say i know what is 'best' but my opinion is that pine is not a good wood to use.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

plywood isn't used anymore?

i used to just build cages from plywood... cheap and easy...

like this?








http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/4x2.shtml


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

Will have to agree to disagree Teeny :2thumb:

contiboard is such a limited material imo


----------



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

HABU said:


> plywood isn't used anymore?
> 
> i used to just build cages from plywood... cheap and easy...
> 
> ...


I think it depends what ply tbh, there are different sorts of ply made from different wood.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

TEENY said:


> I think it depends what ply tbh, there are different sorts of ply made from different wood.













just standard plywood like at any home improvement store...


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

My main issue with plywood is price. It used to be very cheap, but it's gone up in price a lot over the years.

Contiboard is thicker, better looking and nowadays even cheaper than plywood.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Jeffers3 said:


> My main issue with plywood is price. It used to be very cheap, but it's gone up in price a lot over the years.
> 
> Contiboard is thicker, better looking and nowadays even cheaper than plywood.


yeah, it's probably more expensive there to buy plywood...

here it's still reasonable... home depot...

Plywood Prices - Typical Prices for Common Plywood Panels


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

Jeffers3 said:


> My main issue with plywood is price. It used to be very cheap, but it's gone up in price a lot over the years.
> 
> Contiboard is thicker, better looking and nowadays even cheaper than plywood.


max conti I can find is 18mm, that the same as plywood, better looking? each to their own I guess and cheaper? hardwood plywood is less than £40 for a 8x4 sheet and less than £30 for softwood


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

I3arry said:


> max conti I can find is 18mm, that the same as plywood, better looking? each to their own I guess and cheaper? hardwood plywood is less than £40 for a 8x4 sheet and less than £30 for softwood


I just compared b&q prices. 18mm plywood is (only just) under £40. Contiboard would be well under £30. 

I agree that looks are personal, but I think my contiboard vivs look better than the plywood ones on the earlier thread (please don't take offence, HABU!).


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh, show me 8x4 conti for that much (not the white stuff!)

I do apolige nathanayers, we seem to have hijacked your thread :hmm:

Looks far better than contiboard


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Just noticed - the b&Q contiboard is a different size. Apologies!

It's still cheaper, per unit area, though. It's also pre-sealed, so very practical and looks much better. I agree that the last bit is just my opinion, but since all the commercially-available vivs are made from this type of material, I can't be the only one who thinks this.

Not worth arguing about - I only wanted to say that the days when plywood was a cheap option, are long gone.


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

I3arry said:


> Oh, show me 8x4 conti for that much (not the white stuff!)
> 
> I do apolige nathanayers, we seem to have hijacked your thread :hmm:
> 
> ...


 
This is a very nice looking set-up:notworthy:, but this wasn't done by an amateur like myself! I couldn't build something like that in a month of sundays - but I can make an acceptable looking contiboard viv.


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

I3arry said:


> Oh, show me 8x4 conti for that much (not the white stuff!)
> 
> I do apolige nathanayers, we seem to have hijacked your thread :hmm:
> 
> ...


Haha nah hijack all you like, this is the kind of stuff I need to make a decision.
I think what Ill do is, beginning of next month go to the local hardware stores and timber yards, see whats on offer and keep an eye out for bargain vivs.
Not gonna buy the wood off the net, Ill only get confused picturing and finding it. If I got the wood in front of me I can picture it coming together then. As for a nice looking wood effect, I think Ill buy some cheap manmade wood, then buy some sheets of veneer to put over.


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Don't forget to factor in that some of these sheets of board are too big to get into a normal car! Our local builders merchant delivers free, but the delivery is, shall we say, a little unreliable! They were supposed to deliver some board to me the day before the Royal Wedding. It arrived as the lovely Kate was about to say yes to baldy!


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

Jeffers3 said:


> Don't forget to factor in that some of these sheets of board are too big to get into a normal car! Our local builders merchant delivers free, but the delivery is, shall we say, a little unreliable! They were supposed to deliver some board to me the day before the Royal Wedding. It arrived as the lovely Kate was about to say yes to baldy!


Aha thats no problem for the mighty Mazda Bongo!


----------



## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

i build big glass vivs, measure it up, then get the glass cutter on it. i use hot glue to tack the corners into place then silicone it together and put a big glass hinged door on it, doesnt take long.


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

dragon's den said:


> i build big glass vivs, measure it up, then get the glass cutter on it. i use hot glue to tack the corners into place then silicone it together and put a big glass hinged door on it, doesnt take long.


I would love a glass viv! I went in to a glass cutting place and they were asking silly money for toughened glass, it was about £160 if I remember right
That was a 4ft


----------



## I3arry (Mar 25, 2011)

I've just built one with a massive amount of glass (front and sides) and the glass was only £66


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

I3arry said:


> I've just built one with a massive amount of glass (front and sides) and the glass was only £66


4 sides and bottom?


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Glass is not ideal for beardies, it will cost you a fortune trying to keep it heated.


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

Nix said:


> Glass is not ideal for beardies, it will cost you a fortune trying to keep it heated.


I keep hearing this, Nix - and I'm not saying you're wrong, as I haven't tried heating one. However, there is nothing to stop you insulating sections of the viv (with polystyrene tiles, perhaps?). This could be done outside, or built into the interior decor.

Glass regions could also be beneficial in creating and maintaining a temperature gradient, especially on warm days, when wooden vivs struggle to dissipate the heat from the hot end.


----------



## nathanayers (May 14, 2011)

I couldnt use polysterene, its the devils work, makes my teeth hurt thinking about it. Ill just go for some good old cheap wood and put some nice veneer on it, maybe some nice oak burr veneer


----------



## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

nathanayers said:


> I couldnt use polysterene, its the devils work, makes my teeth hurt thinking about it.


 
:lol2::lol2::lol2:


----------



## dragon's den (Oct 6, 2010)

nathanayers said:


> I would love a glass viv! I went in to a glass cutting place and they were asking silly money for toughened glass, it was about £160 if I remember right
> That was a 4ft


 just buy a massive sheet of 1.5cm thick regular glass and a £5 glass cutter, it will save you a fortune, i thought it would be a specialist job but its easy once you practice and master it. i refuse point blank to pay 150-200 quid for a viv from a lps, when i can make them for a fraction of the price. also, to anyone in the u.k wanting to make tarantula enclosures, this is ideal! dont even look at perspex/plexiglass its silly money and i have done extensive searches for cheap plexi but it costs the earth in the u.k for some strange reason, glass all the way, even the front. use araldite to glue the hinges on and they wont ever budge. heres 1 i made earlier :lol2:
















made everything myself and it diddnt take long.
the resident is an adult female thrixopelma ockerti :2thumb:


----------

