# Illegal or not?????



## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

Hi,
Am i correct in thinking that owning or selling venomoide snakes was illegal?
I was just looking through reptile keepers classifieds and clocked this........


FOR SALE Posted : 04 December 07 0.1 MONOCLED COBRA.6FT.EXC FEEDER.VENOMIDE.MAKE NICE DISPLAY IN YOUR SHOP.WELL HANDLED £250.


COLLECTION ONLY



Please note, i do not want a slagging match about if it is right or not, I just thought it was illegal to do it over here!

Thanks,
Warren: victory:


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## serpentkid100 (Mar 7, 2006)

good q, i have no idea: victory:


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## Matt Harris (Aug 21, 2007)

You still need a DWA licence for venomoid snakes. A female venomoid could still give birth (or in this case, lay eggs), and the babies would be venomous. Plus, if you were to argue that you didn't need a DWA, how would you prove that the operation to remove the venom glands etc had been successful?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

It would however be legal for a pet shop to buy one, DWA or otherwise - if the pet shop's local council allows venomous buys on the shop license.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> It would however be legal for a pet shop to buy one, DWA or otherwise - if the pet shop's local council allows venomous buys on the shop license.


correct.

In most areas a pet shop licence also allows DWA animals to be kept.

Mason


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Cobras are legal with a DWA.

If we are talking about the "venemoid" part, i am not sure if tinkering with the fangs of snakes is illegal in the uk, but if so - it would be illegal for a veterinarian to perform the act.. it will be perfectly legal to import this animal from a country where the act is legal (ie. USA) and the punishment for breaking the law would be with the person who performed the act, not anyone buying / selling.

Example - it's illegal to descent skunks, it is not illegal to buy sell or own a descented skunk, but the vet can lose their license for the actual act.

Likewise many dogs have docked tails which may no longer be allowed - the people who own these dogs are not punished, only a vet if he performs the surgery.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

If it's already happened to the snake then noone can do anything about it anyway!!:2thumb:


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## danjwright (Apr 11, 2007)

ALL licensed pet shops are allowed to keep an animal listed on the act. The exceptions to the act are anyone with a zoo or pet shop license or a circus. That's legislation so it applies to all local councils. I'm pretty sure anyone can buy or sell a DWA so long as the buyer has a license.


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## jaysnakeman (May 10, 2006)

that ad is legal seller is licensed, new buyer must be licensed end of


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

danjwright said:


> ALL licensed pet shops are allowed to keep an animal listed on the act. The exceptions to the act are anyone with a zoo or pet shop license or a circus. That's legislation so it applies to all local councils. I'm pretty sure anyone can buy or sell a DWA so long as the buyer has a license.


not unless its specifically says on there license there not are they?


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

SiUK said:


> not unless its specifically says on there license there not are they?


All pet shop license covers DWA


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

wozza_t said:


> Hi,
> Am i correct in thinking that owning or selling venomoide snakes was illegal?
> I was just looking through reptile keepers classifieds and clocked this........
> 
> ...


As previously posted earlier it IS illegal to carry out the surgery here. However it isn't illegal to import a snake that has already been done in another country.


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

on the subject of petshops buying and selling DWA, I was under the impression that they could perchase them, but only if pre ordered and only have 24 hours to dispatch the said animal.
Other wise, why would petshops need to apply for a DWA lisence?

I know the bloke who owns this snake, and i know he bought the snake after the op, but this was not in the question, i was asking wether it was legal to pass them on from person to person in this country after the snake was made venomoide.

P.S, Thanks for the replies, answers loads of my other queries!:no1:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

wozza_t said:


> on the subject of petshops buying and selling DWA, I was under the impression that they could perchase them, but only if pre ordered and only have 24 hours to dispatch the said animal.
> Other wise, why would petshops need to apply for a DWA lisence?


Shops *don't *have to apply for DWA licenses - a Pet Shop or Zoo license means you don't NEED one unless your specific council makes it a condition of your getting a pet shop license. I suppose a pet shop owner would still need a DWAL if they wanted to privately keep DWA animals ... though I don't know if that applied to having a "shop pet" that was a DWA animal and stayed at the shop exclusively.

I'm not sure if Kirklees council would require us, for example, to apply for a separate DWA license in order to stock DWA animals if we owned a pet shop and a pet shop license. Suppose I could ask our local if they've got any exemptions or exclusions of what they can stock.


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## markandwend (Jan 28, 2007)

Fangio said:


> All pet shop license covers DWA


 
No they dont, as SIuK said, the shop have to specifically put on the application for thier licence that they are going to stock DWA, with how many and what species they intend to stock.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

For me, although a pet shop license can cover DWA, you have to apply to the council and be inspected as to suitability for the animals, and list the specific DWA animals you intend to keep/sell. It is not an open ended, you can keep whatever you like whenever you like - but neither does it require an entire seperate DWA license.... my council also specifies that you have to inform the council in writing when a DWA animal is sold from your premises including the license and full address of the person you sold it to, regardless of whether they live in the county or not. The inspection and rules regarding suitability of enclosures (triple layered glass for example... double glass with a layer of mesh/netting on the inside) is as strict for pet shop DWAs as private DWAs.

Therefore the council should always have an accurate list of exactly what DWA animals are kept where and their movements from shops.

Don't know how other councils do it - this is for Cardiff.


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## Fangio (Jun 2, 2007)

markandwend said:


> No they dont, as SIuK said, the shop have to specifically put on the application for thier licence that they are going to stock DWA, with how many and what species they intend to stock.


OK I stand corrected BUT they still don't have to have a seperate DWA license.


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

If I am correct, Reading council only allow you to hold any DWA overnight, and it has to be gone the next day. And i am pretty sure that they have to have full details of the buyer before the DWA is ordered.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Shops *don't *have to apply for DWA licenses - a Pet Shop or Zoo license means you don't NEED one unless your specific council makes it a condition of your getting a pet shop license. I suppose a pet shop owner would still need a DWAL if they wanted to privately keep DWA animals ... though I don't know if that applied to having a "shop pet" that was a DWA animal and stayed at the shop exclusively.
> 
> I'm not sure if Kirklees council would require us, for example, to apply for a separate DWA license in order to stock DWA animals if we owned a pet shop and a pet shop license. Suppose I could ask our local if they've got any exemptions or exclusions of what they can stock.


 
the way it works is this...


you want a shop pet/display animal/small dwa section to drag in crowds.

You don't have to change your licence, simply have the animals for sale.

so you have your shop pet albino rattler, which if anyone asks is for sale for £35000. Sorted. 

Mason


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

In Stoke, they don't allow their pet shops to display or sell DWA animals. I think its at the discretion of the council.

A venomoid snake has not has his fangs tampered with!!!! :whip:


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