# dartfrog lighting



## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

ok know this has prob been asked 100's but can anyone advise me on which lighting system they would used for darts that wount restrict which plants I can use? 

Ideally a canopy would be best

thanks


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

The option depend on what size you viv is.

Adam


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Have a chat with ArcadiaJohn; obviously he thinks his own company's products are best- but they probably *are*- and he knows the science involved backward!


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

60wide and 60 high got a few suggestions but am getting quite desperate now to make a decision so need a quick check on suggestions as wanting to order this week and then get critters in before frogs.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Well I can highly recommend the arcadia pro canopy. I have two one with a 12% UV and one with a zoomed ultra sun. The plant growth is great and they look really smart. You can see them in situ in my thread on page two and the plant growth on one of the last pages http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/944120-dart-frog-exo-build-pic.html

Adam


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

many thanks can you direct link me to one please so I know I got the right one!

Will this more or less grow all plants for darts?


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

Bout time you got back to the grind mind... no more sunning yourself!!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

oakwell said:


> many thanks can you direct link me to one please so I know I got the right one!
> 
> Will this more or less grow all plants for darts?


Here you go. It depends what bulbs you use. They come with a 6% UV which is ideal for your frogs. I suggest you get two otherwise you won't have enough light for the plants then change the bulb in the second one for either an arcadia freshwater pro or a zoomed ultrasun.
Vivarium Canopy 24W T5 Rainforest | Swell Reptiles


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The Arcadia canopies are indeed nice, but they're also more expensive. You'd need 2 of them too for what you are wanting, which will leave you with a bill of around £120 or so.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

sorry Ade, you'll have to re-jog my memory, i remember, at least i think it was you, ran me through a 'build-your-own' setup regarding lights, reflectors etc


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> sorry Ade, you'll have to re-jog my memory, i remember, at least i think it was you, ran me through a 'build-your-own' setup regarding lights, reflectors etc


I tend to use controllers and reflectors bud, which isn't perfect for a display viv. There are lots of luminaires on the market though, some cheaper and some dearer than the Arcadia pro canopy. You just have to shop around a bit.

Ade


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

Glad you guys like the canopy! Its the combination between HO tech and our "Flood" reflector that makes it so effective. Being metal also stops the "melting" issues:whistling2:

I'm more than happy to advise on here or by PM if you still have need.

all the best

John


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

am so confused been shown 5 different ways lol some say I need a Uv bulb and then a basking bulb?? others say canopy and heat matt? what is minimum UV as some say 12% is too much or is it simply all are right but its what u prefer?


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

also what do people think of these

Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy Triple 60cm


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Is your house really cold or something?

Dart frogs you don't normally heat the viv, you heat the room they are in. As in you want temps of about 18 degrees Celsius at night, 20 degrees Celsius during the day at the lowest. If you have these, you DON'T need any additional heat source beyond the normal lighting.

As to UV, plants do NOT need UV, in fact UV causes the release of free radicals which damage the cells of plants (yes, I CAN quote academic sources for this assertion). This is why we have red plants etc, they developed the colour pigments to protect the plant from excessive UV. As to UV for dart frogs, there is no PROOF that most dart frogs need it, just a lot of people claiming that it's good for them. Thing is, almost my entire collection has NO UV lighting on them, the same is true for the majority of dart keepers. Good diet and supplementation is far far more important for darts than whether you use a UV light or not.

End of the day, lighting choice is up to you. I always recommend 2x T5HO type systems for those who want the best plant growth, as this is what I have found works. I've also posted many times at length as to the best tubes to use etc, and even wrote an article in the first BAKS newsletter on the topic. Sure you can grow SOME plants under much lower lighting, my recommendation is based on what I have found to be optimal most of the time. The dart frogs don't give a hoot what lighting you use, apart from where it impacts upon their daily rythms (eg. I found my Regina stop breeding if the viv gets too dim).

Here's a simple way to find more info on lighting (apart from the obvious of signing up for a free bronze membership on BAKS to download the 1st newsletter). Click on my name and look through the threads I have posted on. 90% of the time if the topic is lighting in the amphibian section I have probably posted on there. A quick way of finding lots of threads discussing lighting, with the many many different options discussed.

If your room is too cold, here's another tip, put a thermostatically controlled room heater in there or use your central heating more, as if it's that cold heating the viv itself is going to just lead to all kinds of problems. Was a guy once who's house was around 14 degrees Celsius most of the year as he hated been warm. He tried and tried to get his dart vivs warmer, covering them in heat mats, insulating them, using lighting to warm them more etc etc etc. He never did manage it, just dried out his substrate and cracked the glass on his vivs (sorry if you are reading this bud, at least I haven't named you. lol). If that's not an option, consider keeping amphibians that prefer cooler temperatures, eg. newts, salamanders, most mantella etc. A hobby is far more enjoyable when it's not a constant battle.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

oakwell said:


> also what do people think of these
> 
> Exo Terra Compact Top Canopy Triple 60cm


They're big, they're ugly and they give off a LOT of heat which often means turning them off in the summer. :lol2:

Oh yeah, and if you go for hobby brand bulbs you'll pay £20 and up per bulb, which wont last nearly as long as T5HO tubes do.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

I agree with Ade regarding the lighting. Sorry I confused you about UV its just that the pro canopy comes with either a 12% or 6% UV bulb both of which are fine for darts and its pointless theowing out a perfectly good bulb.I have the 12% and mine are breeding constantly. For my new viv I am not using any UV just good supplementation on the food side.


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

I am going to get the arcadia hood I think (12%) and then if I feel I need to up levels will get additional lighting I just feel a canopy will finish it better even if a little more expensive.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

The point I was trying to make bud is that you can get 2 tube canopies for around the same price as a single tube Arcadia one.

Ade


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## Terrarium Supplies (May 12, 2012)

or.... mr D, you could make your own


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

Terrarium Supplies said:


> or.... mr D, you could make your own
> 
> image


 
your just showing off now!!!

one day maybe!:2thumb:

ordered my lights tonight 2 of al show when on viv!


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

The big advantage the arcadia has over the others is there is room for your misting nozzels. The canopy is a lot smaller than you think and on a 60 exo you could in fact fit 3 if ever needed.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

also like the fact it sits off the top of the viv, the exo sits in tightly and stops air circulation


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

Ended up with 2 of these

Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Terrarium Hood 60cm | Canopies | Online Reptile Shop


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

oakwell said:


> Ended up with 2 of these
> 
> Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Terrarium Hood 60cm | Canopies | Online Reptile Shop


Ade showed them to me, seem like good value for money.


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah ade showed me em swapped one of tubes and change art of 80 with a spare bulb


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I ordered one for myself at the same time. :lol2: I needed a new light for my superblue aruatus viv anyway, 1 of the 2 brand new screw in ceramic fittings on there decided to fail on me out of the blue. At that price they're almost as good value as just using controllers and reflectors, and at the mo they're shipping with 5% UVB tubes so are probably better value. : victory:

You know me, always after a bargain when it comes to lighting, and looking to find the best balance possible between efficacy and cost.:blush:

I wouldn't worry about nozzles. On euro styles they're so close to the front you can just put the lighting behind your nozzle bulkheads. That's what I usually do anyway, I tend not to grow anything in the drainage gully. :lol2:

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Pah not such good value after all that. It would seem that the "limited time" ran out without them changing the description on the website, no 5% UVB tube included in with mine. Good job I have a few 24watt T5HO tubes spare really.

Ade


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

If it was advertised as a free bulb they are obliged to honour it.


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## mattbeighton (Aug 25, 2012)

fatlad69 said:


> If it was advertised as a free bulb they are obliged to honour it.


I don't know how it works online, but that isn't true in shops, same with prices shown. If the had to honour any price shown on a label then it would have to form a contract, which would mean you were required to buy the item as soon as you picked it up. Most will show good customer practise and honour it though.

I'm sure if he exercised his distance selling rights and returned the product, they'd be willing to sort something out.


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

yup, limited time only suggests it's a short term promotion thus they need to take that off once the promotion has finished, not that it's until supplies run out.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I've dropped them a line about it, I'm sure it's just a genuine mistake.

It's still a really nice fitting anyway, really really slim so fits under the shelf with room to spare, and the black goes with the trim on my vivs. : victory: They're perfect for anybody using racks like me with limited space above their vivs for lights.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

may well get one of these ordered, put my eco hood back on till i get another fixing as just got the one arcadia atm, get one of these to sit with that


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Sounds good. If it helps you to plan, the cable exits from the back of the unit, with the switch next to it. I took some pics earlier, will post them up once I've got them off my camera.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

found it on amazon, same deal, free reptisun it's £40 with free delivery, only reason, i never used that site you have, which you reckon i should go for ? 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reptisun-T5...&qid=1378322060&sr=8-17&keywords=zoo+med+hood


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Right, hear back and they're sorting me out.

They've run out of the promotional stock on the smaller units like I ordered, only got the 122cm ones left from the promotional line, and have updated the site descriptions now to reflect this. : victory:

I figured it was just a genuine mistake.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

sorry to be a pain, just realised its 5.0, my arcadia is the d3 6%, will these two together be okay for tree frogs ?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> found it on amazon, same deal, free reptisun it's £40 with free delivery, only reason, i never used that site you have, which you reckon i should go for ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reptisun-T5...&qid=1378322060&sr=8-17&keywords=zoo+med+hood


I used them tons in the past, never had any problems. You wont get a tube with it from them though unless you need the 122cm one now. So entirely up to you bud.

Whatever you chose, I really like mine. :lol2:

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

think i'll grab it from amazon, worth an extra couple of quid to get the bulb


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> sorry to be a pain, just realised its 5.0, my arcadia is the d3 6%, will these two together be okay for tree frogs ?


Probably. The % doesn't double up, you just cover more area with the UV. So long as your frogs have the option to shade from it they should be ok.

If not, you could always just buy a daylight/865 T5HO of the same wattage, swap out the UV and keep it for when your other UV stops producing enough UV. That's what I advised Darren to do for his dart viv, advised him to order an UltraSun T5HO at the same time and just swap 1 tube for it.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

cheers Ade


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## oakwell (Feb 16, 2009)

I have sent mine back for no other reason than 2 ogether with the back power feed does not leave me much room for misting nozzles etc I had same problem with bulb however they where gunna send them to me but the other bulb I ordered did not work lol...good contact with company though and a good looking unit however now ordered this much better for a display viv I feel and better fitting.

T5 Fish Tank Lights Two Bulbs - All Pond Solutions

I will just replace one bulb and job done I have light!

can I just say thanks to ADE (wolfenrock) been a dimond helping me I bets its like been on questiontime!....I am still waiting for him to block me on facebook! :lol2:


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

oakwell said:


> I have sent mine back for no other reason than 2 ogether with the back power feed does not leave me much room for misting nozzles etc I had same problem with bulb however they where gunna send them to me but the other bulb I ordered did not work lol...good contact with company though and a good looking unit however now ordered this much better for a display viv I feel and better fitting.
> 
> T5 Fish Tank Lights Two Bulbs - All Pond Solutions
> 
> ...


I didn't know you wanted me to? No probs, will get on it now. :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

just opened my zoo med up and i must say, loving how compact it is

although i need to message the amazon seller, no free bulb despite advertising it etc


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

It'll be the same thing that caught out Online Reptile Shop. The free bulbs were a zoomed promotion, so were inside the box, the only clue as to which are which been stickers on the box. I'm sure if you contact the seller and point out that the listing says they include a tube (just to note, it needs to say this in the text, I know from experience that the photo used means nothing. lol) and yours doesn't they'll send you a tube if only to keep good faith with you. If they don't they're fairly inexpensive for the ZooMed T5HO UV tubes, I ordered a 10% 24 watt one along with a 76cm fitting earlier today, tube was £16.43 which isn't bad for a T5HO UV. : victory:

Total agreement on how slim they are though, they're 1 1/8th" thick according to the ZooMed catalogue. : victory:

Just to add though that the Arcadia T5HO canopies are also good, but in a different way. By the time you've bought the tube to go with the zoomed it'll cost the same as the Arcadia one which comes with tube. Now the Arcadia canopy is narrow but taller with I'm told space underneath for misting nozzles etc. The ZooMed wins when you have to fit it into a narrow space, such as under a shelf on a rack, but wont sit over nozzles as no legs (hence so slim).

Lets face it, both units are win win, but each has an area in which it is more suitable than the other. This just means that us hobbyists win. :2thumb:

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

i'm going to stick a normal t5 in the zoomed and i've got the d3 in my arcadia, boom


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Good plan bud. I've got a Sylvania 865 in mine at the mo, not got around to putting the 5% they sent me in. lol

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

btw on that site Darren linked,they have the ultrasuns for £8 ! Zoo Med T5 HO Ultra Sun 24in (24W) UL5-24E | Aquatic Products | Online Reptile Shop


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Yeah I know bud, I gave Darren that link to start with.  Been using them since I started keeping darts, they've always had excellent customer service.

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

am tempted by a few of their cork bark bulk buys tbh. is it sad i get excited by a bargain/buying new equipment


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> . is it sad i get excited by a bargain/buying new equipment


This may not be the right place to ask that question.... :lol2:

Ade


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

feel a tad bad now, they emailed me back and are sending me a replacement, according to them the promotion ended etc, but amazon don't allow individual vendors to change the pics or descriptions


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

.....and it arrived, it's the wrong kind of light and doesnt even fit lol i may bring it to baks with me, put it up for a prize lol


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## mattbeighton (Aug 25, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Is your house really cold or something?
> 
> Dart frogs you don't normally heat the viv, you heat the room they are in. As in you want temps of about 18 degrees Celsius at night, 20 degrees Celsius during the day at the lowest. If you have these, you DON'T need any additional heat source beyond the normal lighting.
> 
> ...


Don't suppose you watched The Harvest on BBC 2 this week? They've been doing experiments with colour affecting plant growth. They seemed to find that 70% red LED and 30% blue LED reached the best growth compromise, though they were growing potatoes etc so strong root and tuber growth was required. Not sure how that ratio matches the temperature spectrum though.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

No, but that's what 'growers' use (not neccessarily for legal purposes. lol) quite often. You can buy the LED panels on ebay. The problem is, the light is seriously UGLY. lol


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## mattbeighton (Aug 25, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> No, but that's what 'growers' use (not neccessarily for legal purposes. lol) quite often. You can buy the LED panels on ebay. The problem is, the light is seriously UGLY. lol


Yeah it didn't look great in their setup to be honest!


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