# Some questions regarding Philodryas baroni (baron's racer).



## JeffTheExodon (11 mo ago)

A while ago asked some question around G. prasinum and got some great feedback. Including some recommendations for alternatives including baron's racers. At the time I thought these guys wouldn't be an option due to viv size (austria has laws regarding minimum enclosure size). However, after a bit of theoretical shuffling around, I would now be capable of providing a larger enclosure (150x80x150cm). Which is why besides G. prasinum, I'm now also considering both G. Oxycephalum and Philodryas baroni. 

About baron's racer in particular, I had some questions regarding their "behavior". Primarily, about how arboreal they truly are? As I've read some accounts from keepers of how theirs barely touch the ground and then some where they are decribed as quite a bit more terrestrial (semi-arboreal). Secondly, I wondered how active they are in general/on a day to day basis? Meaning would I be seeing them cruising around the viv or would they be more likely to just sit around on their favourite perch?

Really interested to hear from anyone who's kept this species or just has a good amount of knowledge about them.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

I have had this species since 1998, both WC specimens imported from Argentina and later some of the first CB from Germany that were imported to the UK by Darren from Crystal Palace Reptiles. In my opinion they are a very good choice, much better than _Gonyosoma oxycephalum_.

They are _semi _arboreal. A lot of people seem to treat them as 'rainforest' species and like to keep them in very humid enclosures full of verdant vegetation such as _Pothos_.... They are _not a _rainforest species, in fact they live on semiarid habitats such as grassland, thorn scrub, gallery forest (forested areas alongside other habitats such as rivers), and forest bordering pampas. Their range is mainly the western Gran Chaco region of Argentina, Bolivia and Paraguay - a quick look at local climate quickly dispels the idea that these are 'tropical' species, they are far more subtropical and experience quite pronounced temperature changes throughout the year, with long, hot summers that start out dry and end up very wet; and cold periods of winter. (Their summer is in during winter though, although this will not make much difference to CB specimens). In fact their habitat is also called the 'dry' Chaco.

That said - they are semi arboreal so DO climb quite a lot, in the confines of a terrarium even 150cm height is nothing to one so yes you will find they spend a lot of time climbing and perching - which is great as it means they are usually in view. However personally I consider bigger floor area more important to this species than great height once you get above 90cm height. More is nice but room to move is better. This said, they are not active all the time, in fact they seem to be ambush hunters that stay still a lot of the time watching and waiting but are prone to short bursts of movement - but when they _want _to move, hoo boy can they fly.

The reason this species does well is because they are super hardy - as easy to keep as Corn snakes IMO and very adaptable, which is why they do fine in the usual rainforest style enclosures people provide them. But to really reflect their habits and habitat they need seasons of dryness and even lowered temperatures as well. They also are not fussy about what they eat, they will happily take rodents and chicks.

Some images of some of mine.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

My experience of barons is the same as Thrasops'. They are easy to keep, breed and raise as hatchlings. They are fairly active. Males are smaller than females.
They went through a phase when everyone wanted them and they were very easy to pick up as so many people were breeding them. I think its safe to say that they have gone past the "fashionable to own" stage so are harder to find. That said, you do now see brown and blue forms occasionally available. There is also a yellow form.


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## JeffTheExodon (11 mo ago)

Thrasops said:


> I have had this species since 1998, both WC specimens imported from Argentina and later some of the first CB from Germany that were imported to the UK by Darren from Crystal Palace Reptiles. In my opinion they are a very good choice, much better than _Gonyosoma oxycephalum_.
> 
> They are _semi _arboreal. A lot of people seem to treat them as 'rainforest' species and like to keep them in very humid enclosures full of verdant vegetation such as _Pothos_.... They are _not a _rainforest species, in fact they live on semiarid habitats such as grassland, thorn scrub, gallery forest (forested areas alongside other habitats such as rivers), and forest bordering pampas. Their range is mainly the western Gran Chaco region of Argentina, Bolivia and Paraguay - a quick look at local climate quickly dispels the idea that these are 'tropical' species, they are far more subtropical and experience quite pronounced temperature changes throughout the year, with long, hot summers that start out dry and end up very wet; and cold periods of winter. (Their summer is in during winter though, although this will not make much difference to CB specimens). In fact their habitat is also called the 'dry' Chaco.
> 
> ...


As part of my initial research I watched a care guide-video by the guy from snakes n adders, and he also made a point about not keeping them too tropical as well. Great to hear some confirmation on that. Since I've got pretty much the epitome of a black thumb I never really bothered with live plants anyway.

Their hardiness and ease of feeding, is why I currently prefer them a bit to oxycephalum. As even cb ones seem to be a bit difficult in those departments. Is that what you meant, when you said they'd be a better choice?

Ohh yeah, I also wanted to ask, do you think a hook is necessary for handling? Thes ewould definitely be more of a display species and from what I've heard they pretty great temperament-wise. But since they are rear-fanged venomous I wanted to be sure.



ian14 said:


> My experience of barons is the same as Thrasops'. They are easy to keep, breed and raise as hatchlings. They are fairly active. Males are smaller than males.
> They went through a phase when everyone wanted them and they were very easy to pick up as so many people were breeding them. I think its safe to say that they have gone past the "fashionable to own" stage so are harder to find. That said, you do now see brown and blue forms occasionally available. There is also a yellow form.


The blue ones definitely caught my eye. Came across a breeder in belgium, who had some pretty stunning specimens. While I saw some individual that might be seen as yellow, they were usually just described as normals. And I thought it was just different shades of green. I never saw ones adveritsed as "yellow or yellow-phase, in the same manner as the blue or brown ones. Now I'm preety interested, would you happen to have some pictures?

I've only looked around a bit but they did indeed seem a bit harder to find then I might have expected. As their colours, size and hardiness, make them seem like pretty great captives. I could imagine that the fact that they're rear-fanged venomous, might scare some people away. 

Btw, really wanna thank you two, you've a huge help.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

JeffTheExodon said:


> As part of my initial research I watched a care guide-video by the guy from snakes n adders, and he also made a point about not keeping them too tropical as well. Great to hear some confirmation on that. Since I've got pretty much the epitome of a black thumb I never really bothered with live plants anyway.


I should say so, I was asked for input on that video when Chaz was researching and I think he mentions me a few times in it haha.



JeffTheExodon said:


> Their hardiness and ease of feeding, is why I currently prefer them a bit to oxycephalum. As even cb ones seem to be a bit difficult in those departments. Is that what you meant, when you said they'd be a better choice?


In a word, yes. Captive bred _G. oxycephalum_ are not all THAT difficult to keep, but they are definitely a considerable step up from _Philodryas baroni_, which are all but unkillable. The latter is a far easier, hardier snake to keep thanks to its temperature and humidity tolerances. _Philodryas _are also far less defensive than _Gonyosoma _and much more calm.



JeffTheExodon said:


> yeah, I also wanted to ask, do you think a hook is necessary for handling? Thes ewould definitely be more of a display species and from what I've heard they pretty great temperament-wise. But since they are rear-fanged venomous I wanted to be sure.


Hooks are not 'necessary' but I would recommend either using them or wearing gardening gloves and long sleeves when handling this species as they are venomous. The bite does not seem to be particularly significant to humans but there are two and perhaps three members of the genus that are capable of producing dangerous bites, including one (_P. olfersii_) that has killed at least once and caused several other serious envenomations. _P. baroni_ bites seem to be very mild but they are also a lot bigger than other members of the genus so not worth the risk. Gardening gloves and long sleeves negate almost any chance of being envenomated and using a hook helps lengthen those odds even more. It is worth mentioning though that _P. baroni_ are not defensive snakes and should not bite when picked up - however they can be _extremely _food oriented and when in 'feeding mode' can bite indiscriminately (this is actually worse as they are more likely to use venom and won't let go as quickly).



JeffTheExodon said:


> The blue ones definitely caught my eye. Came across a breeder in belgium, who had some pretty stunning specimens. While I saw some individual that might be seen as yellow, they were usually just described as normals. And I thought it was just different shades of green. I never saw ones adveritsed as "yellow or yellow-phase, in the same manner as the blue or brown ones. Now I'm preety interested, would you happen to have some pictures?
> 
> I've only looked around a bit but they did indeed seem a bit harder to find then I might have expected. As their colours, size and hardiness, make them seem like pretty great captives. I could imagine that the fact that they're rear-fanged venomous, might scare some people away.
> 
> Btw, really wanna thank you two, you've a huge help.


All my animals are green or mint green. There are some brown animals for sale in the UK at Snakes n Adders and Crystal Palace Reptiles though. Here is one from Crystal Palace: The brown form is considerably rarer in captivity. I had a female that was yellow as a baby but she changed colour to green as she got bigger.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

ian14 said:


> Males are smaller than males.


😂🤣😂🤣😂
Ian, we have to really watch that blasted autocorrect! 
The number of times I correctly type a word, only to find it has been replaced.

No experience with any of these species, but has been really interesting to read about them 👍


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Swindinian said:


> 😂🤣😂🤣😂
> Ian, we have to really watch that blasted autocorrect!
> The number of times I correctly type a word, only to find it has been replaced.
> 
> No experience with any of these species, but has been really interesting to read about them 👍


Well in many ways its true! Not all men are as big as other men! In height I mean of course 😅
It SHOULD have said FEMALES are bigger than males! 🤣
It's been a long and hot day.


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## loxocemus (Sep 2, 2006)

iv had i think 3 maybe four, the largest female was completely arboreal (i designed the cage that way), only came to ground to drink and poop, she basked under a heatmat fixed to the ceiling. she bit me as an adult when i woke her from a nice dream, the instinctive part of her brain got me good, fang punctures the lot, i had no reaction whatsoever. i lost a neonate male to an enlarged heart, it was pea sized in his little body, i was quite upset at his passing.

some neonates can be tricky feeders, well not tricky but you have to chase them with a pink till they get pissed, i think i got mine from mark wotton (sp?)

they are ideal first semi arboreal back fanged display snakes. they'll drink from a little deli cup in ur hand, they love fresh cold water.

rgds
ed


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