# I normally go out of my way to help people but.....



## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

(Rather than take the Boomslang thread further off topic I thought it best to start a new one.)

Like a lot of people here I had help when I began to nurture an interest in reptiles. And as a young lad back in the 60’s I was very grateful to those who took the time to talk to me about reptile husbandry, showed me how to handle them and gave me books & booklets on reptiles... I still treasure these items to this day. As a result, I have always gone out of my way wherever possible to help and encourage young people with a genuine interest in reptiles and I will continue to do so...

But I’m sorry to say there is an exception.....

*From now on I will not waste any more of my valuable time with ViperLover*. As far as I’m concerned he is blacklisted now and indefinitely. It is a shame as he was keen but he has upset so many people that I can’t ever see him making any progress in this hobby. So Many people who could have helped him will have backed off by now.
Should he ever get to the _*very unlikely*_ stage of applying for a DWAL who is going to mentor him? And if I or anyone else here gets a call from Southampton (or any other UK Local Council) asking if he is a suitable person to be granted a DWAL what do you think the response is going to be?:devil:

If he ever starts looking for positions or work with reptiles, who is going to employ him? The internet is a wonderful resource and brings people from all over the world together..... it also means that if ViperLovers name crops up any time in the future, there is likely going to be more than a few people who are going to say “isn’t that the kid that wound everyone up back in 2009”? :censor:

We have all tried to help the lad over and over again but he has wrecked any chances he may have had in a spectacular fashion. :gasp:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Paul 


I know many of us have seriously tried to help and advise ViperLover but I'm afraid he just fails to listen, as you say its a shame but I'm in agreement with you on this

graeme


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## kenneally1 (Feb 17, 2009)

slippery42 said:


> Paul
> 
> 
> I know many of us have seriously tried to help and advise ViperLover but I'm afraid he just fails to listen, as you say its a shame but I'm in agreement with you on this
> ...



I second that!

( beautifull shot of the Adder on the other thread BTW greame, captured exactly what i was on about )


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

This is a real shame. It seems a few people feel the same.

When I was in James position only 3 years ago, I didnt know where to start and came to the forum looking for help and advice. People were excellent and I found someone quickly that let me go and see their collection ask advice and put up with my many questions.

This person also wrote me a reference when I applied and helped me out alot, without them I probably wouldnt of been in a position to apply and get my license and im very greatful of that. 

I had alot of help and advice from people, and I like to think that i have taken it all on board and it helps me to become a better keeper, I still have alot to learn and we are all constantly learning new things, and I still appreciate any advice people offer and listen to conversations and watch the forums with interest.

Its a shame James has pushed people away, because their advice help and backing is invaluable.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

PDR said:


> (Rather than take the Boomslang thread further off topic I thought it best to start a new one.)
> 
> Like a lot of people here I had help when I began to nurture an interest in reptiles. And as a young lad back in the 60’s I was very grateful to those who took the time to talk to me about reptile husbandry, showed me how to handle them and gave me books & booklets on reptiles... I still treasure these items to this day. As a result, I have always gone out of my way wherever possible to help and encourage young people with a genuine interest in reptiles and I will continue to do so...
> 
> ...


 
he's a kid isn't he?

kids get a bit of a pass with me... all i have to do is remember when i was a young buck...

i was a real piece of work then... my ignorance and foolishness knew no bounds...

i made every mistake and used bad judgement incessantly...

young people who are prone to blunders and bad judgement usually end up the wisest of people... IF,... if they learn from every bonehead mistake... they learn lessons from their ineptness... one day they wake up and all those lessons come together, and they find that they have a Phd in life... far ahead of the cautious, careful rest who always strived to NOT say or do things others consider stupid...

i was fearlessly stupid as a youth...

i dug many holes that i had to climb out of somehow... but i learned to climb out of them all the same... and had the where-with-all to remember those valuable lessons, earned the hard way... and they came in very handy later in my life...

... 20 years will change a person as we are all the sum of our experiences...

"grab life by the horns" is a commonly heard saying... but if you think about it... the horns, a sensible person might say are the wrong end one should consider... but that misses the entire point...


how old is viper lover anyway?


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## Wirral Exotic Suppliers (Jun 2, 2009)

*16*

Hes 16. I agree but young people should be respectful to the older generation who are more experienced, Anoying people such as Mark isnt on. When talking over the net it is hard to show emotions and how you really feal or mean, as it can be portayed rongly so easily. As Habu said he is only 16 and HOPFULLY he will learn form this.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

I believe he is 16


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

I think he is a good kid, just a little over excited.
I also think we are being a little hard on him.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

at 16... I,......


never mind... you would be shocked..........

i had a high powered pellet rifle and M-80's... you can use your imagination on that one... the possibilities are endless! :gasp:


:lol2:


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Lets all hope James discovers what the internet is really for........... *PORN*
maybe then he will leave us all alone.


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## yayyay (Dec 11, 2009)

Some of the things i have read that he does comes out with are, yes quite bizzare, but he is only a baby, he is only 16 years old, still a child, we all had crazy ideas at that age, and although he comes out with some random ideas i think a lot of it is just fresh air, if he had that much of a passion for snakes im sure he would have one by now,(meaning corn or royal or the like) i am very sure he will not even be interested in snakes, let alone dangerous ones in five years let alone ten, or fifteen, he does however take a lot of abuse from people on here which is unfair he must be very thick skinned, especially for his age, there are alot, LOT worse kids out there than him, and to publicy flock someone like this is totally unfair and unacceptable from grown adult professionals


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

yayyay said:


> Some of the things i have read that he does comes out with are, yes quite bizzare, but he is only a baby, he is only 16 years old, still a child, we all had crazy ideas at that age, and although he comes out with some random ideas i think a lot of it is just fresh air, if he had that much of a passion for snakes im sure he would have one by now,(meaning corn or royal or the like) i am very sure he will not even be interested in snakes, let alone dangerous ones in five years let alone ten, or fifteen, he does however take a lot of abuse from people on here which is unfair he must be very thick skinned, especially for his age, there are alot, LOT worse kids out there than him, and to publicy flock someone like this is totally unfair and unacceptable from grown adult professionals


 
Thanks Mum :no1:


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

*I apologise if I am being a bit harsh.*
Fact is, I have never come across anyone, (even adult) on any forum who has succeeded in winding up so many people in such a short time. Yes I know he is only young and I have cut him some slack on account of his age but he is trying to mix with the big boys without having any experience or knowledge to back up what he says.


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## Komodo32 (Nov 26, 2009)

I've been following ViperLovers posts for a while now....And they never fail to make me chuckle at just how ignorant he can be at times (sorry...nearly ALL the time!)

I'm 32 years old...Have been keeping herps since I was 6 and in that time have owned close to (if not over) 100 different species...And have bred dozens of these successfully!

Even now, I don't feel I am 'ready' to apply for a DWAL.

We're forever learning, none of us know it all...But this young fella pushes aside the valuable and in some cases in-valuable information given to him by some of the leading experts in the field...And it's a shame to say, has, so it seems, alienated himself from them in the process!

He should be a sponge to the wealth of knowledge that's been made available to him, but instead sources info from elsewhere (Good ol' Google) and tries to pass it on as if he's experienced it all first hand....Which we all know, and he's openly said himself, that he has not!

I'm afraid to say it, but nobody likes a 'know it all'...Especially one that has no idea what they're talking about in the first place!

I personally have no idea how some of you have managed to keep your cool for as long as you have...I think I'd of snapped a long while ago! Haha!

A note for VL.....Mate, we've all been in your shoes at some stage, some of us were older, some were younger....But the only way you'll get anywhere in this hobby is to listen, absorb and learn! These forums are for people to share their wealth of knowledge and to learn from each other...Everyone has different experiences.....And this is your time and opportunity to do just that!

Please, please, think before you post! I don't think that you meaningfully try to upset these guys, but you seem to have perfected the knack of jumping in with both feet, spouting rubbish and in turn rubbing everyone up the wrong way!

The future of the hobby is in your hands, the younger generation.....My five year old daughter is totally following in my footsteps I'm glad to say!
- But maybe you could learn something from her in the fact that she listens to what I say, does what she's told to do...And doesn't try to tell me how I should be doing things! :whistling2:

I truly wish you all the best for the future mate.....But tiny steps, eh! : victory:


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

yayyay said:


> Some of the things i have read that he does comes out with are, yes quite bizzare, but he is only a baby, he is only 16 years old, still a child, we all had crazy ideas at that age, and although he comes out with some random ideas i think a lot of it is just fresh air, if he had that much of a passion for snakes im sure he would have one by now,(meaning corn or royal or the like) i am very sure he will not even be interested in snakes, let alone dangerous ones in five years let alone ten, or fifteen, he does however take a lot of abuse from people on here which is unfair he must be very thick skinned, especially for his age, there are alot, LOT worse kids out there than him, and *to publicy flock someone like this is totally unfair and unacceptable from grown adult professionals*


With respect, it looks as though you have only joined the forum last week. Have you actually had chance to read through the hundreds of posts from ViperLover yet? 
Ask anyone who knows me and I’m sure that they will say that I am easy going and always go out of my way to help people...... 
We have all spent a lot of time trying to help the lad but to no avail. He will not take the hints or gentle advice that we have given him so there seems to be no alternative than to spell out exactly how we feel.


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## yayyay (Dec 11, 2009)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/dwa-species/404755-starting-venomous-snake-collection.html

I spend the best part of three hours going through this this morning


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

yayyay said:


> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/dwa-species/404755-starting-venomous-snake-collection.html
> 
> I spend the best part of three hours going through this this morning


Ok, I'll let you off then :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

PDR said:


> *I apologise if I am being a bit harsh.*
> Fact is, I have never come across anyone, (even adult) on any forum who has succeeded in winding up so many people in such a short time. Yes I know he is only young and I have cut him some slack on account of his age but he is trying to mix with the big boys without having any experience or knowledge to back up what he says.


 
scolding is in order sometimes...

what i look for in people, especially youngsters is pretty basic...

are they curious?... do they actually have something going on between their ears?

do they have any knowledge even if it's incorrect or even idiotic or unrealistic?... ?

do they think?... i mean think?... maybe not realistically or carefully but that's still thinking... some don't... lights are on but no one's home... types... too much xbox.

do they ask questions... including down right goofy ones?

do they RUN AWAY when confronted? or stand there despite whithering attacks and criticisms?


all these things are traits many people lack innately... but it's good raw material...


these very things are important measures of ones root personality and are what many fine people have in common... in different flavors of course and varying degrees...

... they also if unharnessed and undisciplined... tempered with experience and study, will make one look like the biggest *ss ever to walk the planet...

one man's arrogance is another's self esteem...

one man's foolish and unrealistic notions are another's creativity and original thought.


one man's stubbornness is another's unfaltering sense of purpose and direction... the 'stick-to-it-ness' needed to handle setbacks without throwing in the towel when things go south... dogged determination...


i used to train young guys... in time you are able to see the potential/raw material people bring to the table... you can see the forest and not just the trees... 

some outwardly look to have what it takes... but really it's not in them... they just superficially look good... the trees if you will...

others look hopeless... but the raw material/lumber is there... just so roughly cut as to seem useless...

a great mentor sees the big picture in people...

i'm not referring to the person in question with this...

just my general babble i tend to generate from time to time...

... old guys like me like to slip in any words of wisdom to others whenever they can... even if they aren't all that wise really!:lol2:


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

AZUK said:


> Lets all hope James discovers what the internet is really for........... *PORN*
> maybe then he will leave us all alone.


Ha ha yes!

It reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where Quagmire discovers internet porn...












SiUK said:


> This is a real shame. It seems a few people feel the same.
> 
> When I was in James position only 3 years ago, I didnt know where to start and came to the forum looking for help and advice. People were excellent and I found someone quickly that let me go and see their collection ask advice and put up with my many questions.
> 
> ...


I am a few years behind you but I too was helped out by a few kind members of the forum when I asked for it. I have also done my fair share of silly comments (still do) but people are fairly forgiving on here & have either corrected or ignored them. I just think he took it waaaaaaaaay to far is all! So those who are sticking up for him, as PDR said, take a look through his posts if you have the time to waste & I am sure you will agree he does not listen.

PS. 16 is not really an excuse, you can get laid & do all sorts of other things so why is he exempt from a strong word?


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

To be fair people have been more than tolerant , to the point that even Zoomed has seen a gap in the Market.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Firstly i only found this forum whilst lookin for porn:whistling2:
and for the VL defenders you have only seen the half of it
many of us have tried to take it away from the main forum by PMing but still to no avail. If you ahdnt noticed non of the guys with DWAL have replied to the guys post recently and this says it all also read some of his posts on other parts of the forum he gets every where like a virus.
he even tried giving people advice on regurgeing snakes the otherday and as usual spouted off the knowledge as if its first hand untill picked up by the other keepers.

I think Paul has been more patiant than most "yours is a noble cause but one i think doth fall on deaf ears sire":notworthy:

VL seems to finnished in this great hobby before he has even started:bash:


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

I have to admit I have been reading some of VL's posts and they do make me smile... Here is my 2p worth.. If someone rubs you up the wrong way simply ignore them from the very start, by that I mean do not respond to their posts that way they should soon get bored and move onto a Gummy bear forum. He is 16 which means either he is outgoing, high on hormonal surges, and a complete twop = a normal 16 old or a strange nerd. He obviously doesn't listen so there is no point wasting one's energy trying to educate him. Anyway, the whole venomous thing with VL is a wet-dream. I am 37, been keeping reptiles for over 25 years, studied them in all shapes and forms, from anatomy to pathology and still would think twice about keeping some of these venomous snakes kept by people in here. I have to admit I do keep venomous reptiles, but believe me, each time I have to clean out their cages or feed them, my mind works ovetime. Where I live it is almost impossible to find a hospital which stocks antivenin so if I did get tagged it would be a world of hurt which I suppose keeps me on my toes. To allow a 16year old to get on your tits, especially online, is a bit of a 'love-hate' relationship. By someone responding to his posts after all the BS writen illustrates that something is intriguing them to the point of curiosity.


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## CraigMcLean (Nov 8, 2009)

There were some good things in the Boomslang thread. Cant we keep it goign and forget about Viper whateverhisname is?


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## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

Komodo32 said:


> I've been following ViperLovers posts for a while now....And they never fail to make me chuckle at just how ignorant he can be at times (sorry...nearly ALL the time!)


 
his posts do make me smile. 

but you cant take away the fact that he is resilient in his posting and this not only got him a personal response from one of his heroes with advice, but he got a second one with a ticking off (at this point i would of been in the foetus position sulking). 

However it was at this point i thought the people saying he is "thick skinned" are only half right. . .


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## ScottGB (May 12, 2008)

All I can say is thank god for the ignore feature on this forum. 

The thing that gets me is he asks for advice or info then argues with people who answer. And has he heeded to the advice that the STARTING A VENOMOUS SNAKE COLLECTION thread eventually after arguments and tantrums gave???? To get a corn snake or something as tame. Has he got one???? 

He has just had Mark O'Shea give up on him. Personally I would be devastated after one of my favourite Herpetologist's said that about me. But has it stopped him???


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

ScottGB said:


> He has just had Mark O'Shea give up on him. Personally I would be devastated after one of my favourite Herpetologist's said that about me. But has it stopped him???


 
I am devistated...Now please don't rub salt in my very fresh and open wounds.

I have a lot of respect for Mr. O'Shea and Mr Rowley...and would do a great deal to re-earn there's, and a couple of other people's.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> I am devistated...Now please don't rub salt in my very fresh and open wounds.
> 
> I have a lot of respect for Mr. O'Shea and Mr Rowley...and would do a great deal to re-earn there's, and a couple of other people's.


 
then go away then james! thats the only thing that will stop this


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## Wirral Exotic Suppliers (Jun 2, 2009)

Love the fact hes now sayin Mr


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## mantella (Sep 2, 2007)

He has just had Mark O'Shea give up on him. Personally I would be devastated after one of my favourite Herpetologist's said that about me. But has it stopped him???[/QUOTE]

Why would he be devestated for that?


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm absolutely in agreement with Paul 

There is a limit, maybe we should start a poll to see how many people actually spent (sorry wasted) their time trying to give James help privately. I did, only to have a *hilarious* joke made about my own perception of my profession, since I only "Work in a Zoo!?!?!"... that's thanks for you.

I'm one of many who have been alienated or outright insulted by James. The amount of times he lists the people he respects, always amusingly leaving out crucial names that he isn't even aware of, insulting the very people replying to him, by his ignorance.

I can tell you now, my colleagues have enjoyed listening to my lunchtime reading over the last month or so, hearing which industry name has publically given up on him this week. 

Any chance James had of making his dreams a reality will have been all but crippled by his posts and behaviour here and on FB towards the very people who could have made his future career happen. Personally I think he's not suited to the game anyway and he's well behind the pack if he's going to have a personality turn around. 
People like James never get past the vetting of potential volunteers stage where I work, too dangerous and ridiculous to have around.

It's one thing to give someone like this a chance in words on the internet, how many people would now give this boy a hands on chance to be mentored or trained by them? How many people would let him in 100m of their facility???

Recently I've been much more annoyed about his giving advice on everyday topics in the general snakes and lizards forums, we see him for what he is, but it makes me very angry to see him turn his hand to regurgitation or incubation advice, he endangers people's animals by this masquerading as something he is absolutely not.


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

I agree with the above post 100% At 16 years of age you are old enough to legally work full time, leave home and even get married. You are certainly old enough to take on board the fact that you are annoying everyone you have interaction with on an internet forum and certainly old enough to realise you are spouting bullsh*t. These forums are an interesting tool for gaining infomation and contacting likeminded people but they haven't been around for very long. The idea that you need to make 100000000 posts before you are ready to get a snake is codswollop. Get some hands on yourself! If at age 16 you cant manage to procure and maintain one of the easier colubrids or boids then im afraid you are full of hot air and will probably never achieve the lofty goals you claim!


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

No offence guys, and I am guilty too, but James is a very exhuberent young man.
I personally feel he has had enough abuse and I think its time you either decide to respond to his posts positively or ignore it completely.
I think being stuck in a place and an age with so many rules must be incredibly frustrating. Here, he could have walked into the bush and got more experience in a year than most will get in 10 without even asking a question on a forum. But he does not have that luxury. 

Remember that you can never have a bad student, only a bad teacher. 
Kindness to a stranger costs nothing and can make a world of difference to someone.


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## Wirral Exotic Suppliers (Jun 2, 2009)

We dont wana ruin his Christmas


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## iajo (Sep 16, 2008)

vl read more post less.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Wirral Exotic Suppliers said:


> :L


 
This isn't MSN now you know...

And thanks Martin...Very appreciated.

Wirral: Don't join the hateclub bandwaggon.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> This isn't MSN now you know...
> 
> And thanks Martin...Very appreciated.
> 
> Wirral: Don't join the hateclub bandwaggon.


 
isnt that 99.9% of the forum????????? lol


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## Wirral Exotic Suppliers (Jun 2, 2009)

I was taking the piss. I haven't said anything bad about you!


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## mark elliott (Feb 5, 2007)

viperlover you have been given very sound advice on here on several occasions by some of the best people in this field . maybe you should take on board what everyone has shared with you and realise that if you want to know the road ahead of you you should ask those coming back otherwise opt to find out yourself but where DWA are concerned that is not a very wise move.
regards mark


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> I'm absolutely in agreement with Paul
> 
> joke made about my own perception of my profession, since I only "Work in a Zoo!?!?!"... that's thanks for you.


“only work in a zoo”..... 30 years ago I went straight from school into a job at Chester Zoo. I did have personal experience with reptiles, inverts & fish. My family kept ferrets, rabbits, poultry, pheasants, pigeons, finches, hawks, falcons, buzzards, eagles, owls and various other exotic creatures. 

My Grandmother worked in the Zoo’s offices and my Father was head keeper on the bird section.... so I got the job partly through having the required skills and partly due to nepotism. 

Back then so long as you where a good worker and had the necessary skills, that was all that was required. Staff where trained on the job and it was not until the mid-80’s that they started to introduce the Animal Management Courses as a way of giving Staff some form of recognised qualifications.

Zoos now can take their pick as there are so many people wanting to get into this line of work. They can and do expect a good level of education. There is far more involved in being a Zoo Keeper than shovelling shit. You have to be responsible for record keeping systems, liaising with vets and having good public relations skills on top of having good husbandry and handling skills and being familiar enough with your animals to know when something is “not quite right”. A modern Zoo Keeper is a very skilled and professional person.



Saedcantas said:


> I can tell you now, my colleagues have enjoyed listening to my lunchtime reading over the last month or so, hearing which industry name has publically given up on him this week.


[/QUOTE]

I can imagine similar conversations have been going on in the Staff rooms of of zoos, safari parks and pet shops across the UK and possibly other countries as so many people in these jobs are also members here. When you make a name for yourself, either good or bad, on a forum like this you have to accept that a lot of people are going to be talking about you....... :whistling2:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

PDR said:


> I can imagine similar conversations have been going on in the Staff rooms of of zoos, safari parks and pet shops across the UK and possibly other countries as so many people in these jobs are also members here. When you make a name for yourself, either good or bad, on a forum like this you have to accept that a lot of people are going to be talking about you....... :whistling2:


Oh bugger........................


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## SnakeBoy0994 (Oct 20, 2008)

paulrimmer69 said:


> isnt that 99.9% of the forum????????? lol


Loool wned8:


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

stuartdouglas said:


> Oh bugger........................


Hi Stuart,
No one has been talking about you.... well not since you know when :whistling2:
Hope you’re doing OK : victory:


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

PDR said:


> Hi Stuart,
> No one has been talking about you.... well not since you know when :whistling2:
> Hope you’re doing OK : victory:


 
Like I said Paul...You have my utmost respect, whether you think I'm a *insert profanities here* or not.


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

stuartdouglas said:


> Oh bugger........................


:lol2::lol2:


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> Like I said Paul...You have my utmost respect, whether you think I'm a *insert profanities here* or not.


i think you have missed the point again.

alot of people whop have commented here about there dislike for you are also very experinced,friendly and helpful people. But you choice who you respect. Reptile keeping is about being a community, its give and take....you respect all good keepers and in return they respect you. I dont keep morphs but still respect people that do, same goes for me with all the WC speices i keep and breed.

you seem to shadow the majority


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> *Firstly i only found this forum whilst lookin for porn:whistling2:*
> and for the VL defenders you have only seen the half of it
> many of us have tried to take it away from the main forum by PMing but still to no avail. If you ahdnt noticed non of the guys with DWAL have replied to the guys post recently and this says it all also read some of his posts on other parts of the forum he gets every where like a virus.
> he even tried giving people advice on regurgeing snakes the otherday and as usual spouted off the knowledge as if its first hand untill picked up by the other keepers.
> ...


What the hell kind of porn were you looking for?!? :gasp:


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

wildlifewarrior said:


> i think you have missed the point again.
> 
> alot of people whop have commented here about there dislike for you are also very experinced,friendly and helpful people. But you choice who you respect. Reptile keeping is about being a community, its give and take....you respect all good keepers and in return they respect you. I dont keep morphs but still respect people that do, same goes for me with all the WC speices i keep and breed.
> 
> you seem to shadow the majority


 
I respect all who respect me.


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## StevetheSnake (Mar 10, 2008)

No one then.


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## Andy G (Sep 3, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> I respect all who respect me.


Are you saying you respect nobody?


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Andy G said:


> Are you saying you respect nobody?


 
No...


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

ViperLover said:


> I respect all who respect me.


see youve done it again....you cant expect respect from people who dont like you....and you have caused them to dislike you,,,,,i dont believe this only 16 crap....i teach kids from 3-16 on reptiles in schools on a daily basis....most of them can tell you the scale count of eurasian sand boa speices....if they can comprehend that then surely you can be mature enough aswell


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

mad martin said:


> No offence guys, and I am guilty too, but James is a very exhuberent young man.
> I personally feel he has had enough abuse and I think its time you either decide to respond to his posts positively or ignore it completely.
> I think being stuck in a place and an age with so many rules must be incredibly frustrating. Here, he could have walked into the bush and got more experience in a year than most will get in 10 without even asking a question on a forum. But he does not have that luxury.
> 
> ...


Very wise and humbling words Martin, but as somebody who was once in a similar situation to James I know from first hand experience that he is going about things in entirely the wrong way. 
I got put straight when I was being precocious and shown most definately that I did not know it all, as I certainly acted at times. However by 16 I was mature enough to have learnt from my experiences. This seems to be an alien concept to James.
You say you can never have a bad student, only a bad teacher. I counter with you can only teach someone who is willing to learn.


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## kelboy (Feb 10, 2009)

ViperLover said:


> I respect all who respect me.


That is what people have come to expect from you, comments such as that. You are 16 (allegedly). You can't just come on to a forum, regurgitating information and misinformation with NO personal experience and expect to be respected for giving potentially dangerous advice. You have to EARN respect. It isn't handed to you on a plate. The best way to do that in my opinion, would be to go and get yourself some hands on experience keeping snakes, and if possible working with them. Keep detailed records of the animals you keep (weights, feeding, sloughing, defaecation, etc.), and keep a diary of your experiences with animals you don't personally keep. In the mean time, ask questions. Not only asking for "professionals" knowledge, as it is not only professionally qualified who are qualified to answer, but also hobbyists and zoo keepers, some of whom, may be in a better position to answer your questions than people with a degree. Letters after your name or a suffix of Dr. does not give you experience automatically. You are only serving to alienate people who may be of a great help to you in the future.

After you have gained some experience, you may want to tell everyone on here. You might want to make a post, detailing all you have kept record of. But only after you have some experience, will people take you seriously, when you are spouting "advice" out. You could make suggestions as to what you think the answer to something is, but don't try and put it across as fact. In fact endeavor to make sure people know that it is just a suggestion and could be absolute b******s.

Oh and READ READ READ. I was buying, borrowing and reading books on all kinds of snakes, years before I even had any idea what kind of snake I wanted. When I decided, I bought everything I needed to set my viv up. Only after 6 months of having the viv set up, did I actually get my first snake. 
What I'm trying to say is, make moves towards actually getting yourself some experience, and respect isn't handed out, it's earned.


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

This thread actually makes me a bit sad......



SiUK said:


> Its a shame James has pushed people away, because their advice help and backing is invaluable.


I'm not sure he realises he's doing it. I can't make him out and he annoys and insults a lot of people and gives out bad advice as if he knew what he was talking about, but I still think it's a shame we've come to a thread like this. Don't get me wrong, I've seen many of the people who are now fed up be very reasonable with James, and try to help him, so I know where people are coming from!



paulrimmer69 said:


> isnt that 99.9% of the forum????????? lol


I think that's a bit harsh! 99.7% maybe...... Seriously though, I'd be gutted if I thought that was what everyone thought of me, and I'm a lot older and less sensitive than James. I'm not saying I think his age is a good excuse for his conduct, or that he hasn't had his chance and several other peoples!



ViperLover said:


> I respect all who respect me.


James, this is another prime example of you pushing away a respected and experienced keepers advice because he's not on your A list celebrity list(No disrespect to those who were!). If I was you having read this, I'd have a long think, wind my neck in and spend a lot of teime reading the threads but commenting little, until you have a) more knowledge, and b) more experience.

I know you'll probably not listen to my advice, though as I'm not in any way famous, just some bloke who keeps reptiles.......:whistling2:


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## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

mad martin said:


> *Remember that you can never have a bad student, only a bad teacher. *
> Kindness to a stranger costs nothing and can make a world of difference to someone.


What about Anakin Skywalker?! Ey?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Owzy said:


> What the hell kind of porn were you looking for?!? :gasp:


 you know that site you pm'd me about.... the one with the.....you know:mf_dribble::whistling2:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

*SAEDCANTAS I LOVE YOU AND I WANT TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN :flrt:EVEN IF YOU ARE "JUST A ZOO KEEPER"*...._NO NO THATS NIGHT RIGHT IS IT:whistling2:_
_sorry any way on a more important subject anybody know how turtles f:censor:k???????_


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

ViperLover said:


> I respect all who respect me.


Here are some steps for you to start earning the respect of those who you have disrespected time and again.

1. Your *posts should end with a question mark* unless you are speaking from personal experience. 
Good: "Is it correct that flying cheese snakes should only be fed on prey gutloaded with lemon juice?"
Bad: "Don't feed your snake that, it should only be fed on mice gutloaded with lemon juice!" 
Don't give advice that sounds like personal experience if you've never kept flying cheese snakes or indeed anything LIKE a flying cheese snake. I will post some advice on bosc monitors (which I don't keep) because I DO keep a Nile monitor, for example. If I'd only ever kept a Roughneck monitor (totally different lifestyle) I wouldn't advise on Boscs.

2. Post* references to anything you are quoting* from research instead of personal experience, and head all personal experience with something like "In my experience" or "Personally, I". 
Good: "This research paper (link) says that flying cheese snakes eat crested geckos who have been eating figs. Feeding them lemon-juice gutloaded mice might not be the best idea." 
Good: "Personally, I prefer feeding my flying cheese snake with anoles that have been injected with pureed mango."

3. If you don't have personal experience, please *refrain from advising newbies who have more herp-hours than you do*. You could pass on dangerous advice without knowing that it's dangerous - what an experienced keeper might do to solve a problem might kill a snake if a newbie uses the technique incorrectly, and if you don't know WHY it works, you won't be able to advise correct usage. You get more brownie points for passing the buck to someone who has that experience than trying to fly by the seat of your pants.
Good: "Your flying cheese snake regurged? Why don't you PM WildlifeWarrior? I'm sure he's kept flying cheese snakes, and he posted some advice on regurge therapy. I'm not sure how it applies to flying cheese snakes, but he should know."
Bad: "You should try to soak your flying cheese snake in a solution of warm Ribena and some bleach after a regurge. It really works." Yes, but how much bleach do I use? "Oh, just a splash..."

4. Pull out your pocket money and* start buying the equipment for your first snake *- kingsnake, milksnake, corn snake, boa (whichever you decide). Steps towards ACTUALLY getting a snake - so you've got ACTUAL experience - will go a long way towards making us think "hey, he really is serious."
If you're going for a temperate species of North American colubrid, you're pretty much going to need the same equipment no matter which you go for, so you can choose "on the day" what you actually want once you've got the gear set up, your temperatures correct and your parents are ready for you to have the actual live animal.
*Post a list* of the equipment you've bought.
*Ask *what equipment you still need.
*Ask *what equipment you can have as optional extras.
*Ask *what equipment can be dangerous.
*Post photos of your setup*. People might see issues that you, as a new keeper, might not recognise - and why not fine-tune it BEFORE you have a problem with the reptile living in it?

I was sixteen once too. At sixteen I had already had:
2 rough-skinned newts, 2 firebelly newts (that bred, but all the babies died), 1 tiger salamander who lived in the back garden, 1 adult male wild-caught collared lizard (who wanted to eat my fingers), 2 anoles, 1 house gecko, 1 wild-caught juvenile bullsnake that lived in the back garden and 1 garter snake. And in the case of the anoles, the house gecko and the garter snake, I desperately wish I'd had the help and advice of a forum like this. They died, and they died badly, because there wasn't the wealth of knowledge available in a place like this. The little garter put me off keeping snakes again for over a decade. 

I was lucky - my parents encouraged me to keep reptiles, and my dad bringing home salamanders and lizards and things that he caught at the cement plant started a lifelong love and respect for them. But you bet your booty that when I asked my mum if I could bring home the cute black and yellow striped baby Nile monitor I'd held at the pet shop, there were some words said, and they were NOT "Happy Birthday". Thank goodness wiser heads than mine prevailed.

Don't abuse the good will of the folks who post on here and make it a great resource any more than you already have. Ask the questions instead of making the statements. Take steps towards getting your first snake and learn the joy of KEEPING them instead of just reading about them.


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## Swazi (Dec 13, 2009)

Anyone who has the ability to cause this kind of reaction should be given a second chance. Can the mods not monitor his posts first to prevent him from posting before thinking? Also, no matter how famous or infamous, young or old, experience or inexperienced, who are we to make such harsh judgments? Some of these posts are really hurtful and unnecessary. It’s simple, if you don’t like what he posts, don’t read them. It’s not as if there aren’t loads of other great posts to read!


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## giantdaygecko (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes Viper is annoying,

But starting a thread to slate him, PATHETIC, call yourself adults....

This is bullying!!! Open your eyes to what you all have become!

Hopefully a MOD will see this and delete it for what it is, TRASH !

I am embarrased for you all

Mike


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

giantdaygecko said:


> Yes Viper is annoying,
> 
> But starting a thread to slate him, PATHETIC, call yourself adults....
> 
> ...


 
A mod has already written on it...:whistling2:


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## scorp25 (May 10, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Here are some steps for you to start earning the respect of those who you have disrespected time and again.
> 
> 1. Your *posts should end with a question mark* unless you are speaking from personal experience.
> Good: "Is it correct that flying cheese snakes should only be fed on prey gutloaded with lemon juice?"
> ...


VP read this its really good advice just start to bloody listen then you may get the repsect from these guys


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

scorp25 said:


> VP read this its really good advice just start to bloody listen then you may get the repsect from these guys


 
I just read that, much appreciated Ssthisto. I will Pm you later.


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