# Importing grrrr rip off britain



## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Someone explain to my why if I want to bring any reptile into the UK I have to use an agent yet when I do the same with my dogs I can do it myself?

Why do they charge duty and VAT etc for reptiles even when you're under the commercial threashold of 5 or more reps? They're privately owned animals that would obviously be coming in for breeding at some point otherwise what would be the point of going to all that expense and trouble to bring them in. Again my dogs they get booked on a plane to manchester via an approved route all paperwork, chips etc is checked by the reception centre, costing me nothing more than I've already paid for the shipping. All I have to do is arrive at the airport with docs to show ownership and they walk my blasted dog out the hanger directly to me, no duty or vat to be paid coz I've brought a dog from say the USA!

I've been moving dogs all around the world for a few yrs now with no problems, if the country they're going to has a lot of stipulations re vets and testing my vet sorts it as long as I get written details from DEFRA no problems. The only time I've used an agent was to send a champion over the New Zealand and couldn't get him to the airport early enough for the vets to fulfill the required worming x amount of hrs before departure so used a kennels at the buyers expense. You ring DEFRA for reps and get all the information you need to bring them in accompanied or unaccompanied and then get told 'well as a private individual you won't get customs clearance' why the hell not?

Can you tell I've had an erm interesting few days go round in circles on this one so much so that I've decided an agent and the taxman between them don't need £570 of my monies and then tell me I'd have to pay tax on anything I bred from the import -------- yeah like that's gonna happen I'm not a commercial importer or anything like that. Ok rant over lol


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

You can do it yourself?


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## essexchondro (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm bringing in some reptiles from the US in about 6 months time. As far as I'm concerned I'm paying the american breeder and then collecting the animals from the airport.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

This is what I've had back from the duty manager at heathrow animal/health and reception centre.

"There are, of course, charges to be paid. We charge the airline and I imagine that they will pass the charge on to you. We inspect the shipment and report to Animal Health (DEFRA) who issue the Common Veterinary Entry Document (CVED) that allows entry into the E.U. Our charges are laid out in the Byelaws of the City of London. For Reptiles, that is £120 per consignment for a stay of up to 24 hours and £120 per day or part thereof after 24 hours. There is also a charge for collecting from the aircraft but that will depend on the airline you use but it could add another £55. The charge from Animal Health for the issue of the CVED is £5 for one box. I can't help with Customs Clearance charges but you must supply an accurate invoice for the value of the snakes. It is virtually impossible for a private person to get a Customs Clearance so I would advise employing an agent who will do all the leg work for you"

This from one of the recommended 'agents' nearly died as this was the cheapest quote.

"We would require at least two working days notice for reptiles coming into London Heathrow. Provided the reptiles arrive in normal office hours and the shipping & freight fees are prepaid- the price for handling charges will be around £330.00. You will also have to pay VAT on the value of the Goods and the Shipping and Freight charges.

($2,000 = approx £1,000 + £100 VAT ADJUST (Stealth TAX) = Around £192.50 VAT Payable).

Please advise if these are for Commercial or Personal use. £530-560 would be a reasonable estimate of charges based on the figures you have provided. 
Providing this is a “one-off” shipment and the sankes are not for breeding and selling on- there is not much more you will need to do.
Please provide in advance full flight details and where posible a copy of the Airwaybill & an Invoice."


Any advice as to how to sort it so I can literally just arrive at the airport and collect as I do with the dogs would be greatfully received as I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall at the min,


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

if you go to Hamm you don't have to pay to bring them in to the country. Is there a customs / import cost if they were to be delivered to France / Holland / Germany and you collect from there?


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

**shrugs shoulders** 
its a money maker for the Govt if they are not in europe i guess


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Unfortunately the person shipping won't ship to the person I'm buying from at Hamm later in the year so sort of stuffs that one well and truly -seems they have a bit of a personality clash going on --------- who said women bitched more than men eh lol?

He would do me a great deal too as he misquoted so if I could get them into the country without using an agent and having so much extra on the costs I'd be ok but seems its not going to happen.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Is it possible to get shipping to Gatwick?

Heathrow has alot more technical stuff to get through as opposed to Gatwick!


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

why not go out and get them yourself, get a return flight into germany then ferry to england?
probably wouldnt work though.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Coz my disability means I can't travel alone unless its a 1 stop trip, so would have to pay my carer to come with me - get them impression that would be just as expensive lol!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Importing is very expensive, you cannot get someone to ship from the US and simply pick it up from the airport. It is mandatory that ALL shipments are cleared by Customs and all relevant costs paid before collection. This applies not only to Heathrow but all ports in the UK, and indeed the EU. The costs you have been advised of seem about the going rates, unfortunately importing is a very expensive occupation.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Can you explain to me Chris why I don't have the same problems with the dogs I bring in either ones that have been shown on my behalf overseas or new pups? I just don't understand why reps are subject to this issue with duty etc whilst my dogs aren't? I wouldn't mind paying the agent for clearing customs, though I do feel that is a total rip off as again I can do it personally with my dogs, but to have to pay duty on top of VAT for an animal I've already paid for does indeed as the agent says imply a stealth tax revenue!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Presumably the dogs were brought in under the Pet Passport Scheme, therefore there would be classed as pets. If not the dogs would have to be quarantined for six months and would be subject to the costs as importing reptiles or any other animal.


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Indeed they were imported under the PETS scheme but surely they can't classify dogs as pets and reptiles as commerical ventures? 

See DEFRA tell me they don't class it as a commerical import if you bring in 5 or less but say nothing about future breeding plans which for a private individual would be no different be it a dog or rep. Yet customs and revenue both say to be a 'private' importer you are not allowed to breed from said imports --------- erm sorry why would I go to such expense to NOT breed with them once they're ready same as I do with the dogs?

See why it threw me, I don't have to pay VAT on the dogs either yet they're going to be a show animal with breeding prospects so if you applied the same rules as they do for reps they'd become a commerical import!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

The Pet Passport Scheme applies to dogs, cats and ferrets only. If you brought the dogs in not under the PP scheme the same costs would apply as for importing reptiles. If you were an ex pat returning home you would have a ‘personal allowance’ and would not pay VAT or Duty on your pets, you would have to pay other costs such as Customs clearance, handling and freight however.

If you purchase three snakes from the USA and wanted to import them as ‘pets’ you could argue that you don’t have to pay the VAT on the snakes, but you would have to pay VAT on all the other costs so overall the total costs would not be dissimilar. Unfortunately there are no ways around this (legally).


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

You can't bring reptiles into Gatwick, only Heathrow - and I believe now Manchester? The rules are the same for both.

I don't know WHY they made the law like it is, but reptiles are simply not classed as pets, they're not included in any pet scheme - but it's not just reptiles, birds, for example.

It is not however "impossible" for a private individual to get customs clearance, but it is a lot of forms, which are quite tricky, and if you do them wrong, they can just say sorry, we can't clear it.. and then your reptiles are stuck and it's a big nightmare. That is what an agent provides, is the knowledge of how things work, which of course, they don't share, as this would damage their business (can't really blame them). Individuals can, and do, apply for import licenses on single shipments.

As reptiles are simply not covered as pets, you will have to pay VAT on them. The gift limit for non commercial activity is £37 to avoid VAT costs. Thus if you have a dvd boxset worth £50 shipped from the USA via mail, you will most likely still get hit for a customs charge. It might slip through in the post, but that's a risk. Reptiles coming in via airport, cannot slip by in the post. If your package was declared at under £37 and for personal use, you wouldn't have to pay VAT. But of course, they're not stupid, if a package full of reptiles comes in labelled £37 theyre going to open it and assess the value and then you're in trouble for "smuggling". :devil:


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

Have NO intention of attempting Smuggling activities thank you very much, just wanted to understand why they'd classified reps as comercial even for the numbers NOT requiring a commercial import license!

I understand I already pay VAT on the charges incurred when bringing my dogs back from their overseas showing time as well as any new puppy imports I make, having done this several times personally since the start of the PETS scheme. I don't however have to pay VAT or duty on the value of my puppy or dog be it a new import or a returner, nor do I need an agent to clear customs on my behalf.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

its kinda tough isnt it..

if its the law its the law... crap but true.. and no amount of us reptile keeper lot saying its not fair is going to change it... unfortunately

it goes for importing anything... theres so much red tape at airports that there is not elsewhere.. such as driving back from hamm etc

dogs are covered on pet passports... reptiles are not..

i paid 150 quid to get my fire and ice dragon here... that was for full vet checks in the states and here.. and all import and tax.. everything.. and i felt if it was something i dearly wanted then i would be willing to


i didnt mind as i did none of the leg work ...not one bit... all i did was collect it from cheshire... the dragon had been fed and cared for till i arrived
.
the dragon was even collected from heathrow and borught back to chester for me..

no pertol charged


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Athravan said:


> You can't bring reptiles into Gatwick, only Heathrow - and I believe now Manchester? The rules are the same for both.



When did that happen? When I received my shipment in March, I collected from Gatwick no problem?


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## Faith (May 17, 2007)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> When did that happen? When I received my shipment in March, I collected from Gatwick no problem?


As far as im aware depending on where you are flying them in from will depend on the airport they are going to.
Im pretty sure Gatwick still have animal cargo and Heathrow and Manchester certinaly do.

Importing is a huge pain in the rear with added vat etc but what annoys me even more than the vat and blah blah is the fact people still expect the reptiles to be sold at rock bottom price!


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

My agent can take in at both Heathrow and Gatwick.

The rules on importing are basicly the same , no matter what the item is.

If its vatable, then VAT has to be paid upon the items first entr into the EU.

A lot of people see prices on a US site and think thats what it should cost them ! they forget all the extra hidden fees.


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