# Mandarin Dwarf Hamsters?



## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

Will add photos in a minute but does anyone keep Mandarin (coloured) Campbells? I picked up some from Holland over the weekend, they have dark eyes and THE MOST amazing top colour I only hope I can "capture" it okay with my camera.....it's a very very pale yellowey-orange :2thumb:

Am I the only one who hasn't seen them here in the UK???

They're fabulous!


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

wouldn't you know I just found some on Preloved!!!

Preloved | 'mandarin' russian dwarf hamster babies for sale. for sale in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i used to have some mandarins, think you`ll find they are a campbell hybrid though


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

found the genetic info, thought so, they are a mongrel of campbell and winter whites, i believe crossing the two can cause the mom`s to have difficulty giving birth i was told, something to do with the females pelvis not being wide enough for the babies to pass.

Other Dwarf Colors

the ones i had were bred by a large rodent farm for the pet trade, but the petshop couldnt sell them as they did bizzaire back flips and sort of had fits, so i homed them till they passed on.
i dont know if their problems were caused by bad breeding or not.


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

here are some pictures of the little ones that I have.......




























I think they're extreemly pretty :flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

NaomiR said:


> here are some pictures of the little ones that I have.......
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 
So do I:flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And so do I! I hope they don't have problems breeding for you because they are very beautiful!

Changing the subject slightly I've just spent a lovely morning going through your whole website Naomi and I'm totally green with envy!! :roll:

You have some beautifully stunning little critters and I love your set ups! 

Just wish you didn't live so far away! :sad:


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

there gorgoeus :flrt: cant wait to see what else you came home with!!


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## Basilbrush (Feb 6, 2009)

Ohhh they are so beautiful.

Jules


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Some info about hybrid WW/Campbells

Gorgous colour, I had some of the first mandarins before it was discovered that they were hybrids. They weren't without their problems. I've chucked the above link in for your consideration. Its written in a slightly militant way to discourage the idiots that buy any old shite from a pet shop and breed so ignore the tone of voice but it should be of help regarding general info on their breeding and health issues.


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

NaomiR said:


> Will add photos in a minute but does anyone keep Mandarin (coloured) Campbells? I picked up some from Holland over the weekend, they have dark eyes and THE MOST amazing top colour I only hope I can "capture" it okay with my camera.....it's a very very pale yellowey-orange :2thumb:
> 
> Am I the only one who hasn't seen them here in the UK???
> 
> They're fabulous!


They were extremely popular about four years ago until the health issues resulted in many shops not selling them. Thankfully the 'mushroom' coloured hybrids appear to have diet out. They were even more prone to flipping, twirling and fits. 
I was gutted when I found out they were hybrids, I'd bred them into my pure WW line after being sold them as pure by a well known breeder and so completely wrecked my line


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i never bred from the ones i had because of the backflips and fits, i just assumed it was bad breeding with them coming from everyones favourite rodent farm :whistling2:
at least it wasnt anything i`d done!
luckily my w/w`s are still w/w`s


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

feorag said:


> Changing the subject slightly I've just spent a lovely morning going through your whole website Naomi and I'm totally green with envy!! :roll:


hey thank you that's a lovely thing to say :notworthy:


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

i want sooo cute


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

`tis true tho, you have some really nice pets and they have great houses too.
your nethie babies are fab

:flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

pigglywiggly said:


> `tis true tho, you have some really nice pets and they have great houses too.
> your nethie babies are fab
> 
> :flrt:


 
Kissa my female Duprasi came from Naomi:no1:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

tis a good job the nethies are so far away, or i`d have to pinch one :blush:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I was breeding the Campbells at this time so was lucky enough to not be affected/infected by the hybrids, as at least in the early days, they were clearly more WW in appearance so never sold as campbells to those of us breeding them.

These hybrids are a real shame, the species individually are beautiful, why some people had to cross them is beyond me.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

ditto


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Kissa my female Duprasi came from Naomi:no1:


I'm not sure you should "advertise" this considering her behaviour lately, or lack of :lol2:


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

Kare said:


> I was breeding the Campbells at this time so was lucky enough to not be affected/infected by the hybrids, as at least in the early days, they were clearly more WW in appearance so never sold as campbells to those of us breeding them.
> 
> These hybrids are a real shame, the species individually are beautiful, why some people had to cross them is beyond me.


Oringinally the issue was thanks to some of the less intelligent european breeders trying to make new colours of WW's. They merrily crossed the two species and then worked under the assumption that so long as they bred back to WW's thereafter the line would stay pure (!)
And 'everyones favourite rodent farm' is now producing black, pied and red eyed 'winter whites'. 
Wonder how he could *possibly* have invented those...

Best of luck with them to the OP, they're so bloody gorgeous, its a crying shame they aren't pure. 
'Hopefully', they are far enough down the hybrid line that they wont have the issues during birth etc or the behavioural problems that we saw when they first appeared. 
I'd love to source some pure winter whites again. I've had minimal luck though because everyone claiming pure animals appears to have originally got them from pets at home...



Kat


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

Pets At Home isn't *the only* pet shop selling hybrids :notworthy: and (to be quite honest) they just ask a supplier for dwarf or russian hamsters, it wasn't untill I kept them a few years ago that I even knew there was more than 1 type!!

Unfortunately people WILL just mix breeds, it happens all the blasted time with cats and dogs, I (personally) don't get it either but it appears to be human nature, sadly. Just glad it's not in _my_ nature.

People are so blinking dishonest to you just can't trust anyone :devil:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

NaomiR said:


> Unfortunately people WILL just mix breeds, it happens all the blasted time with cats and dogs


I think you are a little confused, with dogs people are mixing breeds within one species, with winter whites and campbells people are mixing two different species. Species that live in different environments that in the wild would never meet. They even resulted, at least early on in classic results of cross species animals such as infertility (unfortunately this didnt happen in all cases or the hybrid breeders would have been stopped in their tracks) and the resulting offspring being larger than either parent species (which is how they were accepted so readily by WW breeders, as show breeders are often most prize the larger examples) 

Even wolf dogs are not considered true hybrids as the dog and wolf are not different species, more a sub species if anything.

Although yes there are some cat hybrids to the best of my knowledge, for example early generation bengals, but I dislike cats so not sure Im not talking out of my <cough> with saying if they are really hybrids.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, some of the new 'highly desirable' cats are hybrids, such as the Asian Leopard cat (Feline Bengalensis) to the domestic cat (Felis Catus).

There are also Chausies - Jungle Cat cross

and Savannahs - Serval cross.

It's also documented that this is happening naturally in the wild between our own Scottish Wildcat and domestic cats.


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## Twiglet (May 6, 2009)

as above regarding crossing of species...
No pets at home are not the only one selling hybrid hamsters. Infact, you can 99% guarentee that if they unless they brought them from a show breeder or at least from a line that came originally from a show breeder they WILL ALL be hybrids.
I was just making the point that almost everyone that replied to my requests for pure WW's told me their animals were from a pets at home line...


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