# CHYTRID. need lots of help and advice please.



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

NOT SURE WHERE TO POST THIS?

i bought 3 Juvenile Dendrobates Azureus on the 1st of December 09 from dartfrog.co.uk, got them home n settled in well, all 3 active and failrly bold, all eating very well on everything i put in front of them. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them seemed to slow down a lot, lost weight and sat in and around the dish of water constantly. then as i thought i lost one on sunday the 14th of march, and the 2nd one on tues 14th. worried for the 3rd frog, i started reading up those symptoms, and they seemed to point to chytrid.

i travelled up to edinburgh last thursday and took th dead frog to the exotics department where they sent it to be tested for chytrid, today recieved a call from edinburgh stating the tests came back positive.

what i need to know is what to use and how i stop if im not too late, the infection of my exsisting pair of tricolours (these look to be healthy chubby and lively still, one is calling regularly) , and to prevent any oother possible spread of the problem. 


thanks


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

might be worth asking dendroboard or gifkikker.be for help mate

you need to get on more active sites, sorry i cant help you!


----------



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I dont know how to treat, but you should now quarantine the last (and any others in that tank) Keep the tank in a separate room to any other frogs. Clean the tank thoroughly, burning everything so you dont spread infection to wildlife...and that is all I can advise. Though I would contact Marc and let him know so he can take any precautions.


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

ilovetoads2 said:


> I dont know how to treat, but you should now quarantine the last (and any others in that tank) Keep the tank in a separate room to any other frogs. Clean the tank thoroughly, burning everything so you dont spread infection to wildlife...and that is all I can advise. Though I would contact Marc and let him know so he can take any precautions.



been trying to ring marc all day, will keep trying from early doors tomorrow.


----------



## deadmeat30 (Mar 29, 2008)

i got an email off him today.... so....


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

deadmeat30 said:


> i got an email off him today.... so....



ill keep ringing him n th morning, not something id like to email him.


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

darrensimps said:


> been trying to ring marc all day, will keep trying from early doors tomorrow.



when i say all day, the guy from th lad rang me at 3 bells!


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

ilovetoads2 said:


> I dont know how to treat, but you should now quarantine the last (and any others in that tank) Keep the tank in a separate room to any other frogs. Clean the tank thoroughly, burning everything so you dont spread infection to wildlife...and that is all I can advise. Though I would contact Marc and let him know so he can take any precautions.


 

As already said, all waste, furnishings, substrates etc must be incinerated. Water must be disinfected for 24hrs (using an effective rate of the right disinfectant) before being allowed into drains and sewerage systems. 

I can offer advice on home quarantining for this situation but it is intensive and complex, I can either share it for all who are interested or PM you if you would prefer.
Quarantining in your own home to ensure you aren't walking out of your front door carrying Chytrid is very hard indeed.










Some good discussions can be found here;
http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3&topic=14868&page=2

I've used one particular mode of treatment extensively, Sporanox (Itraconazole 10mg/ml) at 0.01% in a 0.6% saline bath for 5 minutes, for 11 consecutive days. Two or three rounds of this treatment spaced 10 days apart are ideal for real assurance


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

bit off a disaster wonder how many over frogs have caught it!


----------



## deadmeat30 (Mar 29, 2008)

FrogNick said:


> bit off a disaster wonder how many over frogs have caught it!


yeah, must of sold alot from hamm


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> ...


 
what will he do in this situation, with regards to my other frogs?


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Better to talk via PM I'm afraid


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

deadmeat30 said:


> yeah, must of sold alot from hamm





FrogNick said:


> A yet after there's a Hamm show or the Dutch Frog day they appear for sale a couple of weeks later? Not the 3 months...



like I said before!


----------



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

May be a stupid question...but I got two day geckos from him and they are in a tank next to my red eye trio and in the same room as my fire bellies...does anyone know if they can carry it...just in case I need to watch my frogs. Cheers. Shame for him, and the people that have been affected, must be devastating!


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

hi guys i am gutted for all those concearned please can someone tell us how chytrid is transferred thank god i dont have livestock yet but i have bought plants from marc within the last week which are starting to go outside in our greenhouse can these be carrying chytrid i have been told by marc that the mechinism of transfer is via water.we have looked after our bit of land for 20years pretty much organically and combined with the big pond next door have a thriving healthy phib breeding population i obviously aint got natterjacks but all of the rest help us out with the slugs and occasoinally pop in me studio for a chat this is devastating no sleep tonite then


----------



## deadmeat30 (Mar 29, 2008)

if im right, then i dont think there is any proof of how its transfered. could be touch. Anyone correct me?


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Moisture. So moisture in the cups of bromeliads... moisture in moss... moisture in a wodlice culture... a variety of ways.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

all the plants i got from marc were nearly bone dry does that mean the risk is reduced obviously there was some moisture there or the plants would have been dead


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Something like this could finish a small buisness.


----------



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

soundstounite said:


> all the plants i got from marc were nearly bone dry does that mean the risk is reduced obviously there was some moisture there or the plants would have been dead


Really, no matter where the plants come from you should wash them carefully, but I am not sure if that would be enough to get rid of Chytrid...probably not. 

I just hope there are not too many people that are adversely affected by this.


----------



## deadmeat30 (Mar 29, 2008)

fatlad69 said:


> Something like this could finish a small buisness.


some bring it on themselfs....


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

deadmeat30 said:


> some bring it on themselfs....



what you trying to say? :gasp: I won't hear a cross word about DF on here thank you very much!


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

deadmeat30 said:


> some bring it on themselfs....


A little unfair, he is only trying to make a living. There are far worse traders out there, at least he has a good knowledge about his amphibians.


----------



## deadmeat30 (Mar 29, 2008)

fatlad69 said:


> A little unfair, he is only trying to make a living. There are far worse traders out there, at least he has a good knowledge about his amphibians.


knowledge and care are two different things..


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

not fussed if its his living, i dont leave gas leaks in old ladys kitchens? 


anyway, im not here to slag anyone off, i need advice.


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> A little unfair, he is only trying to make a living. There are far worse traders out there, at least he has a good knowledge about his amphibians.


my main concern this could spread to other peoples collection it could end up costing all of us frogs especially for those that trade in frogs!

If anyone has bought frogs recently from him they need to keep any eye on them and not try to shift them! Dig your own grave...


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

:blowup: :whistling2:

Can Saecade (sp?) offer advice


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Are there any measures to stop shops trading other than dry goods if there is evidence of this fungus?


----------



## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

oh sheet I got plants from dartfrog too but a couple of months ago...


----------



## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

darrensimps said:


> NOT SURE WHERE TO POST THIS?
> 
> i bought 3 Juvenile Dendrobates Azureus on the 1st of December 09 from dartfrog.co.uk, got them home n settled in well, all 3 active and failrly bold, all eating very well on everything i put in front of them. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them seemed to slow down a lot, lost weight and sat in and around the dish of water constantly. then as i thought i lost one on sunday the 14th of march, and the 2nd one on tues 14th. worried for the 3rd frog, i started reading up those symptoms, and they seemed to point to chytrid.
> 
> ...


 i'm not a frog keeper but i did a little research on the fungus for a presentation in uni and read that eye drops can be used to remove the fungus. i'm not telling you to do this but maybe you could look it up or someone else could confirm this then it could be helpfull


----------



## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

FrogNick said:


> my main concern this could spread to other peoples collection it could end up costing all of us frogs especially for those that trade in frogs!
> 
> If anyone has bought frogs recently from him they need to keep any eye on them and not try to shift them! Dig your own grave...


 no i would have thought the mian worry would be if it spread to our native species


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

llamafish said:


> :blowup: :whistling2:
> 
> Can Saecade (sp?) offer advice


Everyone is welcome to PM me for further details or advice on how to treat and quarantine


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

tomwilson said:


> no i would have thought the mian worry would be if it spread to our native species



it's already here so don't worry!


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> Everyone is welcome to PM me for further details or advice on how to treat and quarantine


might be worth writing a new thread or u might get bombarded


----------



## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Sry for your loss :-(
This article has some pretty good info - hope it helps :
Chytrid Fungus


----------



## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Just read this....

CF only lives in water so can be easily passed via water droplets. 

Any cleaning aids used on one enclosure, including *you* need to be cleaned or dried (CF dies if dried out or exposed to very hot water) 

At 47C CF dies within 30 mins, at 60C it dies within 5 mins. So doesn't need to be boiling.


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Chytrid fungus - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

llamafish said:


> Chytrid fungus - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki



so according to what ive read, it would take a coupple of months to kill a frog that contracts chytrid from a foreign object?


----------



## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

llamafish said:


> Chytrid fungus - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki


OoOoO great link...gonna bookmark it just incase!


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

darrensimps said:


> so according to what ive read, it would take a coupple of months to kill a frog that contracts chytrid from a foreign object?


Depends entirely on the species affected, it's stress levels, housing and temperatures. Some species may be completely resistant while others will be decimated in weeks.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

so what you are saying lotte is that everyone that has bought darts or plants from marc in the last four months aprox has the potential to be carrying chytrid oh sh****t (that is, all things being equal, and they never are, it took 4 months to take out these azeureus) marc has been really helpfull and straight with us. Please post as much about this for all us novices. You know so much ,that probably the rest of us will never get to see because your a pro and most of us are amatures,i have been in a slightly similar position with birds, is this potentially as bad as i think it is? or am i being a drama queen? i really RESPECT marc but am also worried for alot of others their phibs and me natives love stu


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Woah there!  

I certainly cannot put my name to this statement;


> so what you are saying lotte is that everyone that has bought darts or plants from marc in the last four months aprox...


If anyone needs confirmation of my own personal experience or more details in general, I can give you a heads up via PM but not on the open forums. 

I'm going to write a sticky on Chytrid, including all aspects of the disease in captivity, but it is likely to take me till Sunday. 
Anyone who is in need of urgent advice can PM me directly.


What I will say is that Chytrid is more common in the trade than most people think, at least one person here has probably lost amphibians to Chytrid without realising that's what it was. 
How far reaching this is, is likely to be much less of an epidemic than you might expect (didn't hear of anyone else having problems around Feb last year... :whistling2 The potential for spread is huge, but the reality is probably moderate by comparison. 

Animals can be treated with little trouble, the difficult part is effectively quarantining infected animals from the outside world or a pre-existing collection. Acheiving Q'tine from the wider environment is hard but possible, effective Q'tining away from amphibians in another area of your house is going to be nigh on impossible.

Lotte***


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I`m a bit disappointed in the lack of information being posted about this.
FACT, Marc bred and reared these frogs by himself in sterile conditions.
They were NOT bought from an outside source.
He has also had his place/stock tested for Chytrid and came up clean.
Darrensimps has come on and posted an accusation before he`d even spoken to Mark.
Since then he has spoken to him and probably knows the same information that I have yet why hasn`t he come on here and said anything.
What he`s done is have everyone running around scared because he points a finger, but I don`t see anyone questioning him.
Has he told anyone on here that he transfered broms and moss from his other frog tank? NOPE.
Did he transfer the disease from his other tank? MAYBE.
Dartfrog just might be completely innocent, has anyone thought of that?

Mike


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Good point Mike.
I bloody hope so.


----------



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Unfortunatly it is all about reputation, I think marc should really come on and defend/explain himself. I found him to be very helpful when I spoke with him on the phone and am very happy with my geckos...but to be honest, until this is cleared up I dont think I will be risking buying frogs or plants just to be on the safe side, like I dont buy from other places for other reasons. If he can say it is nothing or explain I may change my view.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

ilovetoads2 said:


> Unfortunatly it is all about reputation, I think marc should really come on and defend/explain himself. I found him to be very helpful when I spoke with him on the phone and am very happy with my geckos...but to be honest, until this is cleared up I dont think I will be risking buying frogs or plants just to be on the safe side, like I dont buy from other places for other reasons. If he can say it is nothing or explain I may change my view.


I completely agree with this.


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Well Marc explained things to me and I am happy.
Why should he have to come on here and explain himself?
Guilty till proved otherwise eh? So much for justice. Just throw him to the wolves and be done.
For crying out loud if you could see some of the shops selling reptiles and amphibians then you`d be thinking Dartfrog is the best there is.
There is one shop where I live that myself and my wife walked out in disgust and we shall NEVER return because it is a filthy hovel.
Now thats worth moaning about.
How many have actually had a good experience with Marc?
Plenty if not most of the frog keepers on here but all i`ve seen is whingeing about him and nobody has yet convinced me that its earned, and this thread has so far proved me right.
Remember what my original point was.
An accusation was thrown with no proof and everyone starts holding up the banners and protesting.
I`m asking WHY?
All because one guy points a finger when it turns out he may have introduced the disease himself.
I know one guy who asked about Marc and suddenly he gets loads of PMs about him, and we just wondered how many of that PMs were from people who actually use Marc.

Mike


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

I 100% agree Mike, never had a problem with any of Marks stuff, and if i did i would work it out with him, not broadcast it on a forum


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

I've heard quite a few people have had bad experiences with him though.
From what I hear, this isn't the first supposed case of Chytrid from Marc either.
I'd rather be on the safe side to be honest. If the aquatic plants and springtails I've bought from him turn out to kill my frogs, I'm not gonna be overly pleased.


----------



## kayskritters (Feb 16, 2009)

OH S**T! I have a Surinam Horned Frog arriving from DF tomorrow, I ordered it in Dec. I also have 10 other horned frogs in the house.............

What should I do???


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes agreed, you wouldnt be pleased, but there is an element of risk involved in buying stock, chytrid cant be seen on plants etc, you arent going to know, but these days we need to quarantine wherever we get stock from, even if its your best mate down the road, loads of people go to Marks, do we know they havent unknowly taken spores there on clothing, tubs etc.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

kayskritters said:


> OH S**T! I have a Surinam Horned Frog arriving from DF tomorrow, I ordered it in Dec. I also have 10 other horned frogs in the house.............
> 
> What should I do???


This is a nightmare.
Try PMing Saedcantas, she's willing to help!


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Ben W said:


> Yes agreed, you wouldnt be pleased, but there is an element of risk involved in buying stock, chytrid cant be seen on plants etc, you arent going to know, but these days we need to quarantine wherever we get stock from, even if its your best mate down the road, loads of people go to Marks, do we know they havent unknowly taken spores there on clothing, tubs etc.


I completely agree.
I'm in no way pointing the finger at Marc.
Just a little bit worried about purchasing plants from him and putting them in my vivs then infecting my amphibians with chytrid. It doesn't matter to me where it originally came from, or whether it was Marc or not, I just don't want to risk losing my own phibs.


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

I know what you mean, need to be careful, but plants etc need to be cleaned etc before going into tanks too, i spray all mine and rinse before they go in a viv, but then i set mine up a good while before frogs go in.
Chytrid is a very real threat that needs combatting, and finger pointing on a forum isnt the way forward( im not aiming this bit at anyone).
Being pro active is the way forward


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Well I washed them before I put them in but I'm not sure if that would destroy Chytrid.


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

i wash/ dip mine in vetasept,and rinse off,and plant up the viv for a couple of months before the frogs are added, not saying it does the job, but the plants are ok, and the frogs are clear


----------



## kayskritters (Feb 16, 2009)

I have emailed Marc but I am guessing my frog would have arrived before he even gets it! Im not finger pointing at all but I have waited 3 months for this frog to arrive and if Marc has chosen to withhold this sort of information from me, knowing I have other phibs, it would be most unprofessional.

Really unsure what to do...........


----------



## Geomyda (Aug 11, 2008)

This is indeed a very worrying thread. 
For some of you, who are perhaps members of the British Herpetological Society, there is a timely lecture on the subject of Chytrid fungal infection this coming Saturday at the AGM being held at ZSL
No doubt, there will be opportunity to ask questions and I am sure that Dr Trent Garner will be able to update the audience on the current situation with this very worrying pathogen.


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

kayskritters said:


> I have emailed Marc but I am guessing my frog would have arrived before he even gets it! Im not finger pointing at all but I have waited 3 months for this frog to arrive and if Marc has chosen to withhold this sort of information from me, knowing I have other phibs, it would be most unprofessional.
> 
> Really unsure what to do...........


I must admit I have to agree with what you said.

Mike


----------



## kayskritters (Feb 16, 2009)

I have since had a very quick reply from Marc at DF and I am now completely at ease!

It seems the original frogs with chytrid were never brought into the DF premises but bred privately at Marcs home. They never entered the premises and were shipped out directly from his home to Scotland. Also, he still has healthy, growing juvenilles from the exact same batch as his home, with no sign whatsoever of the fungus. He informed me that the most recent swabs test performed in Feb were negative (and very thoroughly tested throughout many vivariums) and assures me that my frog, which I ordered in Dec is GUARANTEED 100% healthy.

He seems to take this whole situation very seriously (and to heart) and seems to be struggling with the reasons behind certain people blaming him for the outbreak when his frogs and premises have always been clear of the fungus. 

Hope this helps some people. If you need to see his email, let me know and Il ask for his permission to post it (however he did say he wasnt a fan of the forums because of this sort of thing).

Very helpful and informative chap.

Kay x


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Kay
You have picked up on the same sadness that I did in the email he sent me this morning.
And of course he gave you the same reason for not posting anything.
I do get the impression theres a witch hunt by some, NOT by all.
It`s just a shame that people can`t sort their shit out by themselves without dragging others into it.
I do accept there has been something in the past as i`ve had a nice wee chat with Seadcantas and have no reason to disbelieve what she has told me.
But hopefully now we shall see an end to the banner waving and maybe have something constructive spoken about.
One can only hope anyway.

Mike


----------



## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

Well I am expecting a shipment from dartfrog tomorrow - geckos and dartfrogs which I have been waiting for ages. Am I worried - nope.
Why am I not worried?? I have been up to his shop several times and each time it is immaculate! plants downstairs, salamanders also downstairs, dartfrogs upstairs - all separated. His own c/b stock at his home nearby as well as his breeding stock. Last time I was up there in Dec I picked up several frogs including a pair of auratus which are all doing very well.
So when my stocks arrive tomorrow - yes they will go to quarantine for 3 months as advised by Frognick.....but will I already assume that they have
chytrid.....not at all.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

Bearnandos said:


> Well I am expecting a shipment from dartfrog tomorrow - geckos and dartfrogs which I have been waiting for ages. Am I worried - nope.
> Why am I not worried?? I have been up to his shop several times and each time it is immaculate! plants downstairs, salamanders also downstairs, dartfrogs upstairs - all separated. His own c/b stock at his home nearby as well as his breeding stock. Last time I was up there in Dec I picked up several frogs including a pair of auratus which are all doing very well.
> So when my stocks arrive tomorrow - yes they will go to quarantine for 3 months as advised by Frognick.....but will I already assume that they have
> chytrid.....not at all.


This certainly makes me a lot less panicky.


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

Never the less, Darren Still has an issue to resolve, and the link to Marc was the most obviouse. Therefore right to raise question. HopeFully we havent forgotten about darren issue. 

I hope Marc correct in what his saying, as many of us (including myself) have dealt with Marc. Dont think any of use want a witch hunt, but just answers.


----------



## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

llamafish said:


> Never the less, Darren Still has an issue to resolve, and the link to Marc was the most obviouse. Therefore right to raise question. HopeFully we havent forgotten about darren issue.
> 
> I hope Marc correct in what his saying, as many of us (including myself) have dealt with Marc. Dont think any of use want a witch hunt, but just answers.


Here I really do not think it was due to dartfrogs as the timeline is all wrong. Chytrid has a incubation period of max 76 days in frogs unless they are vectors - which most will die within 48 days of infection...never reaching the 76 days.
Now if Darren got his frogs on 1st Dec and his frogs started showing visable signs of chytrid...then the days past would have been 88 days.
So I would suspect that it was something later that he introduced into his viv that was infected.....am I wrong??


----------



## llamafish (Aug 19, 2008)

@ Bearnandos - i really aint sure of details mate

Think this is a well written statement

It has recently been reported that a customer who bought some poison dart frogs in December (the 1st to be accurate) detailed that the frogs have recently (in the last 2 weeks) started to deteriorate and succumb. On subsequent tests it was found that these frogs were infected with the chytrid (_Chytridiomycosis_). It seems to be that the finger of blame is pointed at me but during the 3+ months that this customers has had them (and during which time they have been perfectly healthy, feeding, growing etc.) any known number of vectors could have come into play and caused those frogs to catch chytrid. 
In addition we had our premises spot checked at the beginning of Feb (3 skin swab samples from 3 different dartfrog vivaria) and each test came back negative. I take chytrid infections very seriously hence the reason why we have bi-annual checks. 
Just to clarify the frogs that this customer purchased never actually entered the shop. These were captive bred by myself at home, raised in sterile containers as I do with all my juvenile dart frogs and then shipped to Scotland. I still have some juveniles from that batch which are perfectly fine and more importantly my adults are still healthy and breeding. In addition I have contacted several other customers who have bought frogs from the same batch and not one has reported any chytrid-like symptoms, deaths etc. We will be having one of the frogs tested as a precaution but I am 100% confident they are chytrid-free. 
Obviously it is extremely difficult for any frog keeper to say with 100% confidence that they possess a chytrid-free environment without having regular tests on stock/vivarium components carried out. Even some high profile establishments have unfortunately fallen foul of this pathogen and it is known that it can be communicated via clothing, dirt embedded on footwear, on hands, in soils etc, but we do follow a fairly rigorous cleaning regime at the shop and as customers who have visited the frog room will testify it is a neat, tidy and clean place. 

I also see statements circulating that we have previously had a chytrid outbreak. I can categorically say that this is untrue and I'm not sure where these rumours are originating (although I have a good idea!) The only amphibians we had which tested postive for chytrid were some Atelopus imported from a well-known Dutch supplier. Fortunately these were kept in isolation and then the eventual recipient tested them for chytrid which came back positive and the toads were destroyed. As it was nearly 3 years ago that this occurred these toads didn't get anywhere near the shop as it wasn't actually established then.
I would like to ask for common-sense to prevail here instead of some of the fly-in-the-air comments, untruths and vicious rumour-mongering that is currently abounding. 
Regards
Dartfrog


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

llamafish said:


> @ Bearnandos - i really aint sure of details mate
> 
> Think this is a well written statement
> 
> ...


That seems a very fair statement. When you're dealing with amphibians, we can all unknowingly be at risk, and for this reason i feel sorry for Marc. It could happen to any of us, and i'm extremely wary when buying new amphibians and quarantine stock well away from my other animals until i'm satisfied all is well - touch wood i've not had a problem. Admittedly, i didn't have a great experience with Dartfrog in the past but the reality is that these things happen, no dealer will leave every customer 100% happy - they're human beings! And i am happy now to see it in that way. I don't know what's mysteriously happened to the orginal poster... but i find it just that... mysterious... Where's he gone?. Marc Staniszewski has come up with what seems a very acceptable explanation in my eyes, it's now down to the original poster to prove that chytrid was not infact already prevalent in his collection. The bottom line in this story is that chytrid needs to be sorted out, it's just the most horrific fungus. Some frogs are immune it appears, and some species will, in time, build up resistence to it but till then... We need a cure!. Here's hoping... Al


----------



## FrogNick (Jul 2, 2009)

Guys,

At the time of Darren posting he was unable to get hold of Marc. The reason he posted it was DF was a possible source for the virus and as so many of you buy from him it would have had bigger consequence than let say a small breeder. He did the responsible thing and warned people his situation something we should all do if we came across something like this. This way we would stop the spread of this fungus and others like it.

We are all glad that its hasn’t come from DF as none off us want to see that happen even those who don’t buy from him as it will still affect those in the hobby. It only takes someone to bring a plant or brom into there collection and before you know it they have lost hundreds if not thousands of pounds of frogs as some peoples collections are large and rare.


----------



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

See, all it takes is having two sides to a story for people to make up their own mind. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

I think everyone concerned needs to remember that irrespective of where it came from Chytrid is real and you could buy frogs carrying it from even the most well known, well respected of breeders/traders. 
There is little a trader can feasibly do to prevent the possibility of it, but they can be up front with their customers about the potential risk and highlight that quarantine is the responsibility of the buyer. 

Having to treat, stress and potentially see your beloved amphibians die will be the saddest thing you ever experience, high quarantine from the start and at the very least you can protect your existing collection, if not save the new additions with careful treatment. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/amphibians/251201-finally-here-atelopus-hoogmoedi.html


----------



## LIZARD (Oct 31, 2007)

so whats the plan of action to try to prevent from getting into our collections then? Quarantine and quarantine very strictly for a long period??????


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

frogman955 said:


> I`m a bit disappointed in the lack of information being posted about this.
> FACT, Marc bred and reared these frogs by himself in sterile conditions.
> They were NOT bought from an outside source.
> He has also had his place/stock tested for Chytrid and came up clean.
> ...


ive not been on here at all yet, and yes 1 brom was split and moved to the azzie viv from the tricolours viv, but as i stated before, this was either 2 days before the first frog died or in between them dieing, so i dont see this as being th sorce of the problem at all, im sure th chytrid fungus would take more than a couple of days to kill a healthy frog? the tricolours have now been swabbed to see if they have chydrid, and im also writing an email to the supplier of the tricolours, saying everything ive previously explained. 

ive not been meaning a personal attack on marc or marcs shop, ive always found him very helpfull and easy to deal with. i posted as a precaution, i know if id been about to order/just ordered new livestock, id want to know if there is the slightest possibility of an infection being passed on to my collection. as the azzies were last in, naturally thats the first place id look? u may be different.

ive told mark ill give him a ring when i find out the results of the other tests.


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

darrensimps said:


> not fussed if its his living, i dont leave gas leaks in old ladys kitchens? .


 
So this isnt a personal attack?, sorry but this statement does seem to come across that way, if it was said in the heat of the moment, then it could be forgiven, if not, then its out of order, especially seeing as you are possibly having more stock from Mark


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

Ben W said:


> So this isnt a personal attack?, sorry but this statement does seem to come across that way, if it was said in the heat of the moment, then it could be forgiven, if not, then its out of order, especially seeing as you are possibly having more stock from Mark


yeah that bit was written in heat of the moment following the posts preceeding it.

i hold my hands up and appologise for that remark.


ive never said _I was getting more stock, i had arranged to buy a couple of frogs from a private breeder, but since these frogs have died ive knocked that on the head_


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

darrensimps said:


> yeah that bit was written in heat of the moment following the posts preceeding it.
> 
> i hold my hands up and appologise for that remark.
> 
> ...


 
Fair play, hope stuff gets sorted for you and you get the all clear.
Put this down to a bad experience and move on.:2thumb:


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

Ben W said:


> Fair play, hope stuff gets sorted for you and you get the all clear.
> Put this down to a bad experience and move on.:2thumb:



got disinfactants and baths for the frogs today, worried that it says 'control' rather than cure tho!


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Darren
I thought i`d better say something since you picked up on my post from earlier.
First things, you really do have my sympathies because this is not a cheap hobby for starters and to have something like Chytrid and NOT know where it came from must be doing your head in, it would mine.
In my opinion you made one big mistake, you named Dartfrog before knowing anything about whether or not he has the disease.
Yes advertise what happened and ask advice, I wish I knew the answers but I don`t.
Secondly you should have spoken to Marc in ANY way that you could.
Once you have spoken to him and depending on what you feel after that conversation, and also with great consideration you name and shame OR keep quiet.
What you did by naming Dartfog was create a mad dash to see who could dish the most dirt.
You had the potential with your remarks to bring his business to its knees literally overnight.
I have a fiery temper and can blow off like anyone else, but I also know when a bit of common sense can do a lot more.
Anyway I really hope thats the end of your problem and if not then the best of luck getting it sorted.


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

frogman955 said:


> Hi Darren
> I thought i`d better say something since you picked up on my post from earlier.
> First things, you really do have my sympathies because this is not a cheap hobby for starters and to have something like Chytrid and NOT know where it came from must be doing your head in, it would mine.
> In my opinion you made one big mistake, you named Dartfrog before knowing anything about whether or not he has the disease.
> ...


 
I feel the same as you, and i can hand on heart say that i count Mark as a very good friend, but Darren needs to directly now sort out this with Mark, make peace etc, and move on, let this thread go now, or, i fear, more my try and jump on the band wagon, and end up doing more harm to Marks business.
And by the sound of it you and of course, I, and a few others dont want that.


----------



## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

AMEN to that Ben.

Mike


----------



## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Ben W said:


> I feel the same as you, and i can hand on heart say that i count Mark as a very good friend, but Darren needs to directly now sort out this with Mark, make peace etc, and move on, let this thread go now, or, i fear, more my try and jump on the band wagon, and end up doing more harm to Marks business.
> And by the sound of it you and of course, I, and a few others dont want that.


could not agree more!!!!


----------



## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Ben W said:


> I feel the same as you, and i can hand on heart say that i count Mark as a very good friend.


errmm its Marc...not Mark :lol2:


----------



## Alex M (May 28, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> errmm its Marc...not Mark :lol2:


Oi, you leave Ken W alone, he's alright!


----------



## Ben W (Nov 18, 2008)

ghastly152 said:


> errmm its Marc...not Mark :lol2:


funny that, always texts me with a K, but this isnt really the point of the thread, is it???


----------



## ghastly152 (Sep 3, 2007)

Alex M said:


> Oi, you leave Ken W alone, he's alright!


lol



Ben W said:


> funny that, always texts me with a K, but this isnt really the point of the thread, is it???


I guess not Den W :whistling2:


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

*results*

just thought id let everyone know that the pair of e.anthonyi i had tested for chytrid came back NEGATIVE.


----------



## ipreferaflan (Oct 8, 2009)

That's great news!


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 16, 2009)

ipreferaflan said:


> That's great news!


need to find out where it came from now, and see if the last azzie survives all the treatment.


----------



## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

over the moon for you mate every thing crossed for your other azzie


----------

