# Big cats??



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Anyone own any??

And what do people think of them being wild in England? True or False??


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## VieT (Jul 10, 2007)

there is alot of urban myths that could easily be plausable eith big cats in the wild in britain...

because back in the day.. they wernt on DWA.. no licences were needed.. so every1 and his mum had one..

then dwa came in.. and was expensive as hell.. some people kept them illegaly.. some had them put down... others released into wild in britain..

they say all were caught.. but loads of people say "omg i saw a big cat n the woods" 

i think if there were one... we would notice it a little more...

their feeding regeme would be noticed.. dogs/cats/people going missing.. cows sheep etc... and there would be a noticable kill site..

think they are amazing animals... but think these are best in the wild 

peace

James


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

I agree, I think there would be more evidence of the presence of a big cat. They will stick to a known prey area, so it would be more noticeable when livestock went missing. If they are supposed to have survived wild for the last 30 odd years, then it's logical they must be breeding, either that or the original "escapees" would be pretty much on deaths doorstep by now. So with breeding comes increased numbers and increased chances of sightings and increased livestock going missing or being found dead.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

I know you asked for sightings in England but...in March 2003 there were 3 sightings (of a large black cat) in and around Falkirk, Scotland.


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Definately _something_ on Dartmoor an Exmoor - wild boar all over the place now that could easily sustain a preditor.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Well apparently theres one in Bexley in Kent... sheep go missing and peoples cats etc... i think they are out there... think how well a Panther would blend into the darkness... you'd only see its eyes...


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

Of course there are large cats loose, all the "pet" ones didn't just vanish when the DWAL was introduced.


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## Pleco07 (Aug 15, 2007)

Not that anyone beleives us but me and my grandad saw a cougar in Thetford Forest in the summer of '98.

We were on a camp site, went for a bike ride only a road on the edge of the forest. As we got closer to it, it ran off. Then that night we heard what cud only be described as a giant meow - like you wud imagine from a bigger cat.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

there are several known cats out and about in the uk, when you start to talk to people IN the countryside.. who live and work there.. whose time is spent there in hobbies and so on.. 

Dorset: my ex has seen something whilst out fishing round ringwood, on the edge of the new forest, as have several of his fishing mates

Surrey: a farming friend, out riding, had a "large tawny cat, with tufted ears" cross in front of her horse

Devon: a farming friend again, has clawed trees on her land, has neighbours with a carcass found half way up a tree, and has had calls from the farmhouse across the way to say "are your chickens in, and the dogs shut up, as we can see something large and black outside your chicken shed at the moment" 

Lincolnshire: a friend with an exotics refuge down the road from here, has, amongst other things, female puma. when they are in season, you can stand on her land and hear the wild male who lives locally, calling from the woods that border the fields nearby.

Lincolnshire again: down our lane infact.. the dogs went after something last year, which was the same size as dora, the 6ft wolfhound. one dog froze in fear and wet itself... dora, the other took off after it.. once the dog had been recaught, whatever it was followed rory back up the lane, keeping pace with him through the fields opposite.. being a pitch black night in the countryside with no illumination.. details were not visable tho.. so we can't say for sure that it was X or Y.. but we have ruled out things like fox, badger, deer and so on.. and you begin to run out of candidates.. and knowing there is definitely big cat living within 12 miles of here.. you do wonder lol..

but then there are other things loose in the uk landscape.. from the better know wild boars to racoons to harris hawks to porcupines to corn snakes.. there are quite a few non native species who adapt just nicely to our shores..

N


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I recon they are a bit like ghosts.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

in the 

_just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they are not there_

line?

or in the 

look like a sheet with holes in and go *BOO* kinda way 

*grins*

N


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

haha, yeah the first way although a cat under a sheet would be pretty cool as well, I havnt ever seen one personally, but I believe they are there big cats that is, but like ghosts some people find it hard to believe if they havnt ever seen one themselves.


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## Sid.lola (Jan 10, 2008)

I've seen a black panther in somerset. People in the area are well aware of it's presence. Why is it so implausible?


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

oh trust me, i don't think it is.. lol.. i've not seen one no, but i know people who have done.

oddly (or not) enough i get to hear of some of the more colourful finds in the uk countryside these days..

for instance.. and as far as i am aware i am not not supposed to say, but an porcupine was captured this weekend in the uk countryside, i won't go into where, and i don't know all that much more about it than that, only that we were asked for general advice and contacts during the course of it..

i'm glad to say, a home had already been arranged for it beforehand, just in case the hunt was sucessful... lol, but imagine what the guy who bumped into that initially must of thought..

is it a bird.. is it a plane.. no.. its a sodding porcupine.. *eh* ???!!!

lets see, as said there are racoons, in north lincs i think.. and what else.. oh yes, an arctic fox in middlesex.. there was a cat shot dead by a farmer too somewhere.. mind you i am told there are corn snakes living and breeding wild in parts of essex too these days.. which makes you wonder when you see the thread from the guy who found a hatchling in his garage..

N


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

I know they found a big cat years back, at the side of a road that had been killed by a car, but I cant remember what it was now.


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## rakpeterson (Oct 10, 2007)

i always hear of reports of ''big black cats'' near me, i live near port lympne animal park. I always dismissed them as probably a mis-sighting of something else, until i saw it for myself.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Well people have taken pictures of one in Dartford... and it was not a Black Labrador thats for sure...


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

I think you should all get to the DWA forum and give this info to our very own big cat wrangler Mika lol.


Seriously though I reckon theres a good chance of these animals being around. I can't help be sceptical though. I feel maybe some of this is genuine, the rest is what I call Nessy syndrome. Sounds good if you've seen this stuff etc. No offence to anyone, maybe you have seen it, but I doubt all of you have


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

this is faaaar removed from any of the nessy esque situations.

I think a little background explaining is in order.

In 1976 the DWA was intorduced because things like big cats were becoming 'popular' (as far as any expnsive 'niche' animals can be) as pets. The DWA was introduced to comabat this amongst other things.

Whe the act was intorudced owners had three choices.

1 - apply for a licence which for most would ahve meant needing to make significant improvements in the way they keep their animals.
2 - have it put to sleep
3 -donate it to a zoo or other instituation.

Unfortunately (bearing in mind this is 1976) it was not illegal to release animals like that into the wild in the UK until 1980-81, obviously a fair few people went this route.

Now I would accept the Nessie comparison if pior to 1976 there were thousands of hosuehold with a pet nessie 

Now to cover the usual points:

There have been actual large cats CAPTURED (as in captured, not just blurry photos etc) that were roaming the UK and no zoo or instituation could be found who was "missing one" of that species.

Next people normally turn to "don't be silly it's far too cold" or "don't be silly we'd notice if big cats were eating all our livestock.

1 - climate. They managed perfectly well in cages on peoples gardens, or in enclosures outside in zoos etc. Whats changed?

2 - food. they don't eat as muhc as people think, and this is only a small population, it's not liek there are thousands of the things. Britain has plenty of suitable prey items for large cats, they wouldn't go hungry! I'll also point out that not many native UK predators can rip out a sheeps throat and use trees as scratching posts (as in large deep scratch marks in the bark and wood 4-5 feet off the ground! Can't think of muhc that could do that....

another common argument is how come you never see dead ones? Well how often do you see a dead badger? Deer? 

In 1989 the body of a jungle cat was found by the side of the road in shropshire, in 1991 a lynx was shot in suffolk (after killing around 15 sheep over a period) and in 1993 a leapard cat was shot on thwe isle of whight

It's also worth considering that most "big cats" kept as pets were not the largest species,species like lynx and jungle cats were very popular. these cats are of a size (and of course the genetics are compatible) that would mean breeding with feral cats is a very high probability.

I myself have seen large cats twice. one in the Melton area and once in the nottinghamshire area. One black and one yellow based.


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## quizicalkat (Jul 7, 2007)

my other half has seen a big cat on two seperate occasions down here.


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

im not saying its exactly like the nessy thing.

more that a lot of people are saying theyve seen it because other people have. You know trying to stake a claim to a massive story


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## iiisecondcreep (Oct 29, 2007)

I've never seen one myself, although I know someone who saw one in the Falkirk area, don't recall if it as around the same time as was mentioned earlier though.

I did see something on the tv about it, and it showed a home video someone had shot of a big cat and some people were trying to say it was just a dog but because it was from a distance it was mistaken for a big cat...
RUBBISH! Even though the video wasn't that great a quality it was VERY clearly not a dog!


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## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Orrr you never hear of things like this in manchester! :bash:

John


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## retri (Mar 5, 2008)

Right, after reading this thread I dont think ill be going back into the countryside for a while.....

As beautiful and amazing as some big cats are, when ever I start reading about them I get images of being stalked down a country lane by something in the bushes.

Would love to see one in the day time though, although this is very unlikely.

And why isnt it possible for there to be wild big cats, its not like reptiles where they will get too cold and die, these are warm blooded animals, meaning that they are able to adapt to our climate, and look at zoo's etc, where is the heating in the lion enclosure?


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Actually there is reptiles in England that aren't native... in Essex there are wild Corn snakes...


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

i've always found this subject fascinating. of course i've not seen anything and not heard of anything living in derbyshire but i believe it's very possible. 

and to add to the list of non native species living here, there's a thriving flock of ringneck parakeets in london. richmond park i think.


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## Alice (Apr 30, 2007)

If there are big cats out there I would love to see one. Not anywhere near where I live though as I’d be worried for my livestock. :lol2:
There’s the theory that there have been a lot more cats found (usually dead by the side of a road etc) than is widely known. It’s supposed to be something to do with the people at DEFRA and the police trying to cover up the existence of these cats for one reason or another. Something along the lines of; if it were proven that these cats were wild in the UK, then DEFRA would have to pay compensation for any killed or injured livestock.

Does anyone remember a documentary quite a few years back (could have been 10 years ago) about the cats on Bodmin. I’m sure someone had taken clear video footage of a family group of big cats on the moors. 
I can’t remember what the program was and I’ve not been able to find any reference to the footage since.


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## Vitarajay (Jun 5, 2008)

I havent ever seen any big cats in the wild, but then again i used to live in manchester so no suprise there. Now i live in Gloucester though. Would love to see some. I think it could very well be true that they are out there, I mean the Scotish wild cat cant be the only big cat in the uk surely and if it is, why doesnt it cross the boarder?


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## bannyian (Jun 13, 2007)

i wouldnt be suprised if they were big cats on the moors as i imagine when people were releasing them, the moors would have been a choice for many


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## __sam69__ (Mar 4, 2008)

mike515 said:


> I think you should all get to the DWA forum and give this info to our very own big cat wrangler Mika lol.


 haha i remember that thread... does any one know if he actually did try and find the big cat lol or if hes alive still ? lool


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

The reason big cats are rarely seen is the fact that they have such big territories. A Leopard (melanistic or normal-coloured) could have a territory that could cover 2 or 3 counties of England. This Leopard would be constantly walking its territory & thus is not seen in any one place that often.


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

Pleco07 said:


> Not that anyone beleives us but me and my grandad saw a cougar in Thetford Forest in the summer of '98.
> 
> We were on a camp site, went for a bike ride only a road on the edge of the forest. As we got closer to it, it ran off. Then that night we heard what cud only be described as a giant meow - like you wud imagine from a bigger cat.


husband heard about the cougar in thetford, he lived in dereham for a while and you aint the only one that has reported to have seen it.


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## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

*big kitty*

I know a man who goes to work very early in morning and about 6 months ago he saw what he thought was a lion in the middle of the road near the golf corse,i said i did not think it was a lion but a puma,he reported it to police.Even the local bobby has shown me footprints in the snow deep in the woods,they swear it was no dog.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Actually there is reptiles in England that aren't native... in Essex there are wild Corn snakes...


Along with atleast one confirmed population of E.longissima in wales


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

and wallabies in dorset.

I saw a black cat at dusk at the side of a country lane where I live. It at first appeared in the half light to be a dumped full bin bag, but as I passed it it looked up and I nearly swerved off the road as I realised what I was seeing. I reversed the car down the lane to see a tail disappearing through the undergrowth, It took me three weeks before I admitted to myself and anyone else that what I had probably seen was a Big Cat. When I finally trotted the story out in a local pub I found I was not the only one to have seen this animal locally. Now I live quite near the Ragley estate and it was well known in the 70s that they had big cats there, and local stories of the Beast of Inkberrow abound, but I am a scientist and a sceptic and it took a lot of courage for me to admit what I'd seen. In the locality of the sighting are pheasant breeding pens, and abundant wildlife for a predator, such an aminal has no need to attack humans or farm livestock. I'm a believer, though it seriously pains me to admit it...


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Exactly... soon someone will be introducing Retics into the wild...:lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

well, another odd occurance here last night.. all the dogs kicked off, and the chickens too.. rory went out to investigate and startled something large in the strip of land at the side of us that used to be a paddock and is now more like overgrown woodland.. it ran off down towards the road.. and cleared the fence between us and the lane in one leap.. he was running after it at the time.. the nettles and undergrowth in the "paddock" are about 5ft high at the moment, so all he saw was the damn thing go up and over the fence.. 

it was not a deer.. wrong shape.. too big to be a fox.. badgers don't leap fences.. suddenly we are getting to the point you wonder what it really was...

about the size of our 6ft wolfhound, and black in the torch light as it was picked out against the hedge line leaping the fence.. 

there are dogs in the village of course.. but most do not run about loose late at night.. bar one old geriatric lab.. who toddles up and down the lane for a wee on his own.. and he goes under fences.. not over them poor soul..

we have had a few chickens taken recently too... but only one at a time.. even one night when one was taken from the hen house.. only one was killed and taken away..

does make you wonder eh.. we know there are confirmed accounts of big cats within 10-15 miles from here..

N


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

What dogs have you got Nerys?? And do you keep them outside, because at night they would be considered prey...


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

It's very possible that (big cats)black cats would have no problem living in parts of the UK.The only problem i have is black cat/panthers are melanistic leopards or jaguars or maybe hybrids of them both ??.Either way both leopards & jaguars have the pull prey up tree instinct.So why are all the prey item alway just left standed where there killed ?? the cats are so elusive but there willing to fully expose there self by eating a sheep where it was killed.Sheep is something they could just pick up and walk away with.There has not been one report to my knowledge of a sheep carcass up a tree'etc.Killing and leaving is more of a pet/simi feral dog thing to me.

Personally maybe not all put most of the reports of black cat i think are most likly melanistic red fox.Though there not as big as leo's & jag's just see a largeish black thing bigger than a pet cat but walking in a differant manner then a pet dog bolt into the bush.With out seeing it properly i think the adrenaline rush would fill in the gaps terning a 2+2=4 into a 2+2=6.


Here's a melanistic red fox.but if you see that would you think fox or large cat if thats all you see of it ??.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Nerys said:


> well, another odd occurance here last night.. all the dogs kicked off, and the chickens too.. rory went out to investigate and startled something large in the strip of land at the side of us that used to be a paddock and is now more like overgrown woodland.. it ran off down towards the road.. and cleared the fence between us and the lane in one leap.. *he was running after it at the time*.. the nettles and undergrowth in the "paddock" are about 5ft high at the moment, so all he saw was the damn thing go up and over the fence..


Now i know you're fibbing - Rory run :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

That isnt the size of a full bin bag, not does it have the cat type tail with the swinging movement that I saw.. No way on earth would I have mistaken a charlie for a cat.


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

There have been a number of occurances of big cats here in the Malvern Hills area going on over a long period of time. One guy at Inkberrow got some footage of a big cat in his garden back in the mid 90's that was confirmed to be a Leopard, since then there have been numerous sightings of Leopards & Panthers in the area including sightings of cubs so I presume some breeding is going on.

My uncle saw a big black cat about 2.5' in body length on a country lane between Malvern & Pershore a couple of years ago, he thought it was a dog at first but when he saw it jump over a fence he said it was clearly a big cat.
And last year paw prints were found on the bonnet of a car parked up on the old hills at Collow End between Malvern & Worcester which were confirmed to be those of a large feline.

It is very likely one was released from a collection, there was a very dodgy mini-zoo just outside Malvern which is now closed. Over the last few years there have been lots of sightings of Capybara in the River Seven at Upton so it's possible they had several escapes and maybe even released a few different animals purposely when they closed down.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

If i saw that fox, i would think it was a pet cat as my old cat looked like that... also didn't know you could get melanistic red foxes, plus the reason Leopards stash kills up trees is so other predators don't take it... they don't have other predators here...


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

reticulatus said:


> Now i know you're fibbing - Rory run :lol2::Na_Na_Na_Na:


lol lol lol.. he nearly went arse over tit when he hit the fallen trees out in the undergrowth.. trouble is where he ran down after it.. it meant it obliterated any path it would have left.. there were no hairs on the fence either so whatever it was went clean over..

could it have been a fox? no. not even a black fox.. funny you should say binbag.. rory said it was about the length of a black dustbin.. 

on the tree stashing.. i do know of people in cornwall who have found carcass's up trees...

N


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> they don't have other predators here...


That is't going to stop them following there instict.You feed pet cats put they still hunt and kill.Leopard and jaguars in zoo still take there food and go high if there allowed to do so.And they do have predator i would consider US-man a big enought threat to them for them to keep this instict up.You really think that every black cat in all the parts of the uk where they've been seen.Not one has kept this behaver that a big far fetch for me.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Suppose, but if they only took rabbits etc. then there wouldn't be much left up a tree anyway... i'm surprised no pet dogs or cats have been taken though...


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

> i'm surprised no pet dogs or cats have been taken though...


Pets run off and go missing all the time, who's to say they haven't been taken?


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Suppose, but surely there would be signs of a struggle with a large dog like a Labrador etc...


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> i'm surprised no pet dogs or cats have been taken though...


 
That's one thing you'll never know is it? There are many reports of people losing their cats, why not??

Nerys....are you going to try baiting for it? But then again I guess you don't really want to draw it near with the chickens etc


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Suppose, but surely there would be signs of a struggle with a large dog like a Labrador etc...


The only sign of a struggle would be some blood, which would easily be washed away by rain.

If a leopard went for even a great dane there would be very little the dog could do.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Suppose, but if they only took rabbits etc. then there wouldn't be much left up a tree anyway


Ofcourse not:lol2: but i still think they would still go up a tree to eat it.Things we should be finding up tress are.Baby red,fallow(deer)'etc,muntjac,roe(deer)'etc all sizes.Baby ponys/hourse.Sheep all size's.Baby cattle'etc'etc.Yet with in countless year i've not heard of anything like this up a tree.This is the only part of the puzzle that donen't fit for me.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah... what exactly would a Leopard consider prey in England then??


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## dcfcnay (Nov 12, 2007)

teshu said:


> i've always found this subject fascinating. of course i've not seen anything and not heard of anything living in derbyshire but i believe it's very possible.
> 
> and to add to the list of non native species living here, there's a thriving flock of ringneck parakeets in london. richmond park i think.


Where abouts in Derbyshire?Im fom Swadlincote atm but i used to live at hartshorne about 10 years ago, Me and an old friend were round his house once whos bedroom overlooks the fields and twice we spotted a big black cat.In midway fields about 4 years ago my sister and her friends were walking a dog only for the dog to go nuts barking and a large cat running away through the long grass.

I know what i saw but the other story i only beleive because she didn't stop crying for hours and has never gone back since.

In my opinion they are out there somewhere just like other things.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Yeah... what exactly would a Leopard consider prey in England then??


Well i don't think fussyness would be there thing i'm sure than anything would be considered fair game.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Even large cows, boar and horses??


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

i should think deer ,rabbits and pheasants would make up its diet,though i feel most cat sightings could be lurchers that are abandond by poachers/coursers.there have been reports of slash marks on a horses neck,and of a roe carcase up a tree,which was put down to a forgetful stalker.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I doubt these cats would be as big as the ones in Africa... the prey isn't as big and neither is the territory...


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> I doubt these cats would be as big as the ones in Africa... the prey isn't as big and neither is the territory...


:2thumb:

This rates up there with the line "Feed your burmese only mice and it will stay small"


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

ohhh black fox where's my gun! we have seen Black cats in a village just outside Doncaster Richard had gone off down one of the lakes shooting one evening after game shooting for the ducks and geese i stayed back in the car and had the dog with me, when he started growling looked back and there was something big black and long tailed that stalked around the back of the car and over a 5 bar fence it def wasn't a dog or fox wouldn't have believed it if i had not seen it with my own eyes, paw prints were found to going down to the water edge and back! one was shot around there to but it was a Fishing cat (Hungarian i think)


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

large cows.. i can see them talking smaller things in preference.. its not like they are hunting in packs with other members to support the kill.

carcass's in trees.. sheep is the one i have been told someone found..

peaches.. oh it has crossed my mind for sure.. round here, if something like that traveled via the *****, it would be easy for it to go onseen for the vast majority of the time.. its been a full moon the last few nights, so visability has been relatively good.. but on a dark night, with little street illumination and not much glow from towns locally.. at times you cannot see the ground you are walking on, let alone what is sat behind a hedge..

whatever it is, knows i have chooks already.. i have lost 3 so far.. one taken from the coup itself.. one who stayed out that night, came back in the morning and was taken around 5-6am (we checked at first light, 4 am, and nothing there.. by 9am there were feathers all over the garden) and one who stayed out and has never been seen again..

if it WAS a fox taking them, which it could well be.. said fox has not once, so far, come in daylight, or even in twilight.. which is not normal fox tactics.. if they cannot get them in the house at night, they will come in broad daylight and take them out the garden in front of your eyes... nor has said fox taken more than one when he or she had a chance too...

whatever rory met last year down the lane.. had one dog litterally pissing herself in fright.. and the other dog on major fight alert.. dora does not react like that to any other dogs in the village.. she will charge them to say hello.. but she does not go on guard / attack with any of them.. whatever she was facing off in the field, was nothing like she normally sees, judging her reaction..

without knowing what it is.. all we can do is tick of things we don't think it can be.. and so far we don't think it can be fox, badger, deer, and so on..

Mmm.. maybe a chicken carcass.. hung from the walnut tree... so fox and badger could not get it... only something that _could_ climb would be able to reach... Mmm... shades of jurassic park with goats tethered in paddocks eh 

N


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

> This rates up there with the line "Feed your burmese only mice and it will stay small"


Surely they wouldn't be as big though just like Anacondas in captivity aren't as big as wild as the prey isn't as big, and that Tigers are bigger depending on the area you find them which surely relates to prey size...:blush:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

reticulatus said:


> :2thumb:
> 
> This rates up there with the line "Feed your burmese only mice and it will stay small"


:2thumb:

but you know that is the truth... :lol2:

N


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Even large cows, boar and horses??


I'm not sure about large cattle as some breeds are massive but i think there will be some breeds that they could take.Cattle is the uk equi of buffilo and not many things mess a a adult of them.Ofcourse i forgot about the new food on the block WILD BOAR big cats may never need to bother domestic farm animal again with them around as there's quite alot of them now.What we class as house a'm not sure about i think more like pony style is more likely as house style is quite big i think a little to big.How ever i don't thing they will have a problem with adult red,fallow(deer) to tell the truth judging by the video.

Leopard taking a kill up a tree


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## pollywog (Oct 6, 2005)

> its been a full moon the last few nights


Local warewolf perhaps?


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

bradhollands999 said:


> Surely they wouldn't be as big though just like Anacondas in captivity aren't as big as wild as the prey isn't as big, and that Tigers are bigger depending on the area you find them which surely relates to prey size...:blush:


there is a hell of a lot of food available in the uk landscape.. from domestic pets.. to farm animals... to wildlife such as rabbit and so on.. i would not think anything would go hungry.. afterall nothing over here has "grown up" with the need to outwit a predator like a large cat.. and whats a sheep going to do.. run away? how?

i heard the cat in ringwood has been seen again this last few weeks.. by anglers again... one nearly ran into it on the roads..

N


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Surely they wouldn't be as big though just like Anacondas in captivity aren't as big as wild as the prey isn't as big


Where did you get that crock? :lol2:

In terms of ANY of the big 5, you will find proportionally more massive animals in captivity than you will in the wild.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

What dogs do you have Nerys?? Would they be able to fight off a Leopard together or do they come in at night??


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

> Where did you get that crock? :lol2:
> 
> In terms of ANY of the big 5, you will find proportionally more massive animals in captivity than you will in the


You took the shittier half of my quote...:lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

pollywog said:


> Local warewolf perhaps?


:lol2:

now that would be a bit worrying lol... i think i would rather it was a large cat.. at least they are more predictable!

N


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Nerys said:


> Mmm.. maybe a chicken carcass.. hung from the walnut tree... so fox and badger could not get it... only something that _could_ climb would be able to reach... Mmm... shades of jurassic park with goats tethered in paddocks eh
> 
> N


Have it tethered to a line, back to your house with a bell, I know of someone who does this with foxes, bit easier though, not up in the air :lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

bradhollands999 said:


> What dogs do you have Nerys?? Would they be able to fight off a Leopard together or do they come in at night??


all our animals are secured at night yes.. bar maybe the rabbits on the lawn

(and that aswell makes me wonder about foxes.. a fox would have gotten into the rabbit pen long long ago..)

scrappy.. would take on anything.. cat and all.. but she is an ex ferral dog, and has to be kept singally outdoors anyway because of it.. she will kill anything she gets near given half the chance.. the cats here, who sleep ON dora.. run if they see scrappy is out. she does not come out off lead as a rule..

misty.. is too old now, but yes, i think she would have stood her ground, and probably still would.

dora.. is big enough to have a go, at 6ft long and with a head above my waist.. she would think herself a match..

lucy - pissed herself and ran.. no help there..

bear.. would make a LOT of noise, but i hope would not go in and attack, at only just over a year, he is not yet solid enough to even think about it.. 

misty and scrappy live in outhouses.. the other three live indoors.. between them, they let us know if anything so much as farts in the garden at night.. but no, i do not think they would win a fight if it came to it..

as said dora has already faced whatever it is down.. she and whatever it was were facing each other off last year somewhere in a very dark field.. i think the situation had become a stalemate.. with neither animal willing to turn their back on the other.. 

N


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Whats an ex-ferral dog??:blush:

And surely all 5 together would not be scared of 1 leopard...:lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

an ex feral dog, is one who used to live wild.

the dogs do not live and work as a pack.. so no.. they would not "join together to see it off" 

scrappy.. if she sees the other bitches from anything other than behind a door.. will try and kill them.. misty and dora, likewise.. had a big fight over who was top bitch. if we could keep them all together, they would all live in the house in the first place... the likelihood of them co-operating is slim to say the least.

lucy was with dora when they met "it" lucy as said.. pissed herself in terror and tried to run. bear.. is too young yet.. even in a pack situation, he is still a junior member..

i think had dora have had other canine back up when she faced it off in the field, she probably would have attacked rather than just stood her ground.. but you have to remember that a dog does not normally or naturally hunt or attack on its own in that sort of situation.. she would have been waiting for reinforcement from subordinate bitches.. or from her lead male.. which in this case was rory.. who took her away from the stand off.. rather than going forward into it.

N


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

I think if Dora had had her brother here, Wolfie, then l believe l would have stood no chance what so ever of pulling them away from the cat that night.

They are wolfhound crossed with gun labs. This makes for a huge breed which was nicknamed Wolfadors.

Dora to many who would not know the difference looks like a wolfhound but with differences, whilst Wolfie looked like a giant labrador. i weigh in at 12 stone, Dora possibly weighs in at 10. Wolfie weighed around 16 stone, was not at all fat, but was lean and was twice the width of Dora. When he played, one of his paws could black your eyes! Dora has speed, stamina, agility and strength, Wolfie has brute strength, some speed, stamina.

The two playing could knock you over with no wind to actually get up, and when at times they did fight, it would take four of us to actually pull them off each other, so thankfully they did not do that often. Most of the time they were basically six foot long gentle giants.

Dora when play fighting, attacks high, and Wolfie attacks low, so as a team they would have l believe taken on the fight had it come to it, and quite possibly managed to hold their own, but still been injured.

But to be honest unless it was a perilous situation, it is not something l would like to have to see, when my dogs had to pound in at the risk of death or serious injury to themselves to protect myself or Nerys from a big cat, which thankfully have more sense than to attack dogs.

R


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

What breeds are they?? And i didn't no we had wild dogs in England... don't any of the dogs get on with each other then??:lol2:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

> But to be honest unless it was a perilous situation, it is not something l would like to have to see, when my dogs had to pound in at the risk of death or serious injury to themselves to protect myself or Nerys from a big cat, which thankfully have more sense than to attack dogs.


Yeah, do see any animals fight is not nice let alone your own dogs fighting a leopard...:lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

we don't have "wild dogs" as such in the UK no.. but we do have dogs that have been dumped and are living wild.. which is what we suspect had happened to scrappy..

bear is supposed to be GSD X rottie
Lucy is supposed to be GSD X lab.. 
dora is wolfhound X gun headed lab, as said above by rory
misty is belgian shepard. and about 15 now..
scrappy is, something with bull terrior in.. poss more.. she was found around the time a lot of breeds or breed lookalikes were being dumped.. she has the size and nature of a staffy.. but is taller and leaner.. and has the ears of a kelpie..

scrappy had to be pulled off lucy recently, when the two met accidently.. scrappy had lucy by the throat, on the floor, in a death hold, at the time.. not good... we have to be quite cautious with scrappy.. she is fast as lightning too.. will flush birds from the hedges and take them on the wing when you are out walking her too.. she caught and killed an escaped ferret who got into her outhouse last year.. 

and yes.. the dogs all get on with bear.. the young male.. lucy and dora get on fine.. as do lucy and misty...

but dora, scrappy and misty all think they are top bitch, and no, will not tolerate each others company. they never used to live together, so it was not a problem, scrappy and misty lived on rorys old animal units as guard dogs.. dora and lucy lived with him a load of other dogs and his ex-wife (although maybe i should class her in with the dogs.. :whistling2

N


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Nerys said:


> we don't have "wild dogs" as such in the UK no.. but we do have dogs that have been dumped and are living wild.. which is what we suspect had happened to scrappy..
> 
> bear is supposed to be GSD X rottie
> Lucy is supposed to be GSD X lab..
> ...


Sounds like a nice ex-wife...:lol2:

How do the dogs survive in the wild then?? Do they find each other and roam as a pack or do they hunt on their own etc...

What happened to Wolfie??


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Ex Wife, in simple terms - no not nice, but sadly as is the way in a marriage with no children, but dogs and cats, there were awardings - l lost Wolfie to her.

Prior to the divorce we had in fact six dogs. Five were mine, one was the ex's.

Scrappy and Misty were mine and lived down the Farm as guard dogs. Wolfie and Dora as puppies used to travel with me at the time to the unit, so never stayed in the evenings and as puppies were never seen as a threat to the top bitch at the time, Misty.

Lucy and Missy were at home, Missy a Labrador was the wifes', sadly on the onset of the divorce and me leaving the matrimonial home, Missy passed away and as a result of that, the ex wanted to keep one of the dogs, so she chose the male - Wolfie. She also did this out of spite, for her true passion was horses and not dogs, where as my true passion is dogs.

I think in the case of scrappy, she drifted into the units one day as a 12 week or so old puppy, she was scarred around the snout, and l suspected she had been subjected to a fight somewhere along the line. I took her to the vets for both a general look as well as to see if she was chipped in any way so as to identify the owner, but she was not.

But as a youngster she was simply adorable, with her corgi look alike ears, and huge eyes. No one came for her after signs were put up, and so she stayed.

As to how long she had been living 'wild' is hard for me to say to be honest, and no l don't think it is a case of dogs living in packs like they do in some cities within Europe. 

So l would suspect in scrappy's case of hunting alone. 

R


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Ex Wife, in simple terms - no not nice, but sadly as is the way in a marriage with no children, but dogs and cats, there were awardings - l lost Wolfie to her.
> 
> Prior to the divorce we had in fact six dogs. Five were mine, one was the ex's.
> 
> ...


I always got the impression dogs weren't very good hunters on there own... If Wolfie was 16st he must be nearly a world record holder... thats 4st more than me... also if Scrappy was 12 weeks old, he can't have been living wild for that long as they're still puppies and reliant on their mum at that age aren't they??:lol2:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Brad, 

Scrappy was a dog that was basically dumped, she was l believe no longer wanted. I say she drifted into our units one day, it was like this ........

It was a Sunday, beautiful blue skies, l had just rolled in myself to feed the exotics, l had a caravan there where Misty used as a huge kennel. There was a growling coming from the caravan, and l thought for all the world that there was an injured fox inside, due to the amount of fox hunting that was done in that area.

It startled me, but then l realised it was a young dog and not a fox.

This is why l am vague on her arrival, now we have two options:

1] She was very specifically dumped in my area because they knew we had dogs ............ 

or 

2] She had not been on the ground for that long before she discovered our units and smelled a saftey zone.

Still being on the mother, well l guess that comes down to the breeders of the dogs. I know breeders who do not let go of puppies till they are in their 20th week, whilst others pull off at 8 weeks. I am estimating an age, and my vet backed me up that she was about three months of age.

16 Stone, Wolfie was and still is a huge dog breed. His mother, gun headed lab, was a large labrador, his father pure wolfhound, was a tremedously large dog that resembled a shetland pony rather than a dog. Of the litter of 8 puppies his mother had, wolfie stood out a mile from the rest, he was the biggest puppy there was.

We wanted to get him done at 8 months of age, but our vet advised us that we had to wait till he was 12 weeks of age, due to his growth plates, but conceded that he was in fact a very large heavy set dog. By the time he was twelve months of age, he was huge.

I know he weighed 16 stone, for l left the matrimonial house in January 2007 and the last weight check he had was in the September of 2006, where he weighed in at 16 stone.

R


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Sorry to sound thick, but whats the difference between a gun lab and a lab??


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

It was explained to me that the mother was pure bred retrieving gun dog, a very well defined Labrador Retriever bred for that purpose alone and not to be used as a pet.

I know that we had Missy who was a labrador and we lived next to a friend of ours who had a 'pure bred labrador' he always referred to her as a gun head lab, and ours was just a lab.

I can not offer any other explanation except from observation, there were marked differences between our own labrador and what were being classed as gun headed labs.

Side note from that: Missy [our lab] l would have to say was not possibly pure bred, for her head and carriage were not as defined as that of the next door neighbours.

R

ps: For heavy dogs, check this brute out!!

Hercules


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I never knew dogs got that big... I thought it was a young pony...:lol2:

What do you think of Dogue de bordeaux as a first dog??


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Nice dog.

I like all dogs, but have a preferred passion for big dogs.

I have a friend that breeds Mastiffs, but not the French.

As a first time dog, as in first ever time as a dog owner? 

Probably not. 

As a youngster l had a Red Setter, and then the first dog l ever had when l was married was a rescue Rottie cross Doberman, l think big dogs are a breed you have to work up to.

Radical he was called, the ex placed on him a bandana to make him look less aggressive, and he was not really aggressive with her, and not really me, but he did look at me at his 'bitch' and promptly walked all over me, or in one case took off after a cat and then l was pulled along for the ride.

I was told l was too soft, and had to harden up and prove l was the dominant pack member rather than a side kick, so we were told by a dog breeder and a behaviourialist at the time, to work up from our dog breeds.

Only now some 15 years of owning dogs aside from the family pets, have l attained the knowledge and experience to own bigger dogs, having said that l now only one one big dog, being Dora, Misty being middling size, the rest are relatively small to medium, with Scraps coming in as small.

I used to own an Old english Sheep dog, one of the great, great etc grandsons to the original Delux sheepdogs. His mother Jesse was owned by the ex's parents and both Fluke and Jesse came in as rescues. His mother was used for film work only and breeding, so when she was rescued, he was the last puppy with her, because he was black and white and could not be used for filming.

R




ps: really sorry to digress from the original posters thread about Big Cats. [LOL - its your thread anyway]


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Nice dog.
> 
> I like all dogs, but have a preferred passion for big dogs.
> 
> ...


:lol2: Yeah, my thread...

Well when i'm older i really wany a Dogue de Bordeux or a Bull Mastiff as i love them types of dog... the only small dog i like is the British Bulldog... my brother really wants a Rottweiler when he's older as well (I'm 17 tomorrow and he's 14)... by older i mean early twenties... would you advise we get the Bulldog before we think about getting the other 2??


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Brad,

Your probably not going to like this, but the best breeds of dog to start out with are breeds like Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, Jack Russell Terriers, West Highland White Terriers, Border Terriers, & similar.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

:lol2:I knew they would be... i really don't like dogs like that though...:devil:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Hey Brad,

Theres nothing wrong with those breeds! I have a Jack Russell Terrier & he's fab! He is great with all my other animals & loves people. The problem with the breeds you have named is because they are big powerful dogs, they need firm but fair handling. If they are not managed correctly, you will be dominated, you will have no fun in owning a dog, & worst case scenario is that you could end up with a dangerous out of control dog. There is nothing un-masculine about the breeds I named for starting out in dog ownership mate. I hate seeing chavvy scum-bags swaggering down the street with a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I call them penis extensions! haha


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi Brad, 

This was quite interesting;

Animal Planet :: Guides :: Dog Breed Selector

Whilst the breeds mentioned by ZM, are recognised breeds for first time owners, so too are Labs, not forgetting elder rescue dogs.

Quite a damning statement to make isn't it? Suggesting that all those that own staffy's are nothing more than penis extensions? LOL

I am sure you did not mean it the way its been written, but then l still have not quite got to grip with the term chavs, anyway.

R


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## spider_duck (Feb 25, 2008)

I've been following this thread and although I have never seen a big cat myself I believe they are out there and find it all fascinating. I just found these and thought somewone might be nterested 

YouTube - Big Cat Britain: Part 1
YouTube - Big Cat Britain: Part 2
YouTube - Big Cats in Britain Conference 2008: Sat. Jonathan McGowan


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hi Brad,
> 
> This was quite interesting;
> 
> ...


Done that selector and it came up with dogs like a Rottweiler, Mastiffs, GSDs, and Newfoundlands, but not a Dogue de Bordeaux...:lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Rory, I just meant that when you see these idiotic young men in their trackies, dark hooded tops, & a staffy on a big leather harness, the majority of them have only got the dog as a status symbol, to say "look at me, I'm big & hard!" Aka, a penis extension! haha


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

I personally don't like Staffys that much... i like them, but not enough to want one myself if you get me... do Brtish Bulldogs make good starter dogs??


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Zoo-Man said:


> Rory, I just meant that when you see these idiotic young men in their trackies, dark hooded tops, & a staffy on a big leather harness, the majority of them have only got the dog as a status symbol, to say "look at me, I'm big & hard!" Aka, a penis extension! haha


oddly thats how we ended up with dog number 5 here..

bought as a 6 week old baby and named "tyson" he is supposed to be GSD X Rotty.. with that breeding, and that name, you just know the sort of person who got him to begin with don't you.. *sigh*

N


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Nerys said:


> oddly thats how we ended up with dog number 5 here..
> 
> bought as a 6 week old baby and named "tyson" he is supposed to be GSD X Rotty.. with that breeding, and that name, you just know the sort of person who got him to begin with don't you.. *sigh*
> 
> N


Would that sort of person be a dick??


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Nerys, yes, absolutely! Someone who walks like ten men, probably wears a frown for much of the day, his wardrobe will consist of mainly black clothing, and he likes to stand around street corners with his mob of fellow simians looking tough & acting like a tit! Lol


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Brad,
British Bulldogs probably aren't a very good started breed. They cost around £1000 for a puppy, they can have numerous problems with their breathing, & the folds of skin on their face can easily become dirty & infected. They are also not the breed you could go running with or who would play fetch with you. Sorry to pee on your parade again mate.


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

gazz said:


> There has not been one report to my knowledge of a sheep carcass up a tree'etc.


I know one sighting of an up the tree meal, told by the viewer. Lets call her Mrs X

Mrs X has two small dogs, she decided that she would stop and take them for a walk on her way home. So she parks and tries to get the dogs out, by this time they are cowering and refusing to get out of the car. Mrs X decides fine that they could stay there if they wanted to, assuming that it was going to thunder as they both freak because of it, and that she was going to have a cigarette. So she starts walking down the track and parks herself against a tree, she said it was raining at the time. So she is standing there minding her own business, when she notices that there is something redish forming in a pool of water. So she watches the pool for a few moments, wondering what it is when drip... Something hits the water, and red stuf once more slowly starts to disperse. When she looks up there is a small deer, yes a deer, in the tree. 

She moved pretty quickly and went to the police station. 
Only to be told they had already been given sightings, and that the animal was probably close, as her dogs had sensed it.


Whether there really was a big cat nearby we will never know, but I don't know how else a deer would get in a tree.



Nerys said:


> if it WAS a fox taking them, which it could well be.. said fox has not once, so far, come in daylight, or even in twilight.. which is not normal fox tactics.. if they cannot get them in the house at night, they will come in broad daylight and take them out the garden in front of your eyes... nor has said fox taken more than one when he or she had a chance too...


Don't foxes usually kill more than one anyway? <.<


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Zoo-Man said:


> Nerys, yes, absolutely! Someone who walks like ten men, probably wears a frown for much of the day, his wardrobe will consist of mainly black clothing, and he likes to stand around street corners with his mob of fellow simians looking tough & acting like a tit! Lol


I am somewhat worried :blush:
I don't often smile and i have alot of black/dark clothes. No idea how i walk tbh, i'm not a "carpet carrier" if that's what you mean.
My only saving graces are that i own the LEAST aggressive dog on the planet and i don't stand around on streets.
Unfortunately, to counteract one of those, i do have a tendency to like large and agressive snakes.

Perhaps i should get meself a couple of corn snakes to counteract things a bit more? :whistling2:


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Spider Call said:


> Don't foxes usually kill more than one anyway? <.<


If a fox gets in your chicken coop it'll kill the lot, regardless of what it eats.


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

reticulatus said:


> If a fox gets in your chicken coop it'll kill the lot, regardless of what it eats.


Thought so...

Cousins chickens were ALL killed and only two were taken.
And a friend who had 7 rabbits had them all killed, but 6 left dead.


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Foxes can't drag food up trees though... not deers anyway... a lot of adults would struggle to lift a deer carcass up a tree...


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> I am somewhat worried :blush:
> I don't often smile and i have alot of black/dark clothes. No idea how i walk tbh, i'm not a "carpet carrier" if that's what you mean.
> My only saving graces are that i own the LEAST aggressive dog on the planet and i don't stand around on streets.
> Unfortunately, to counteract one of those, i do have a tendency to like large and agressive snakes.
> ...


PMSL.... *imagines dan with a corn snake hatchling wiggling in his goatee and a poodle under one arm*

and on the fox thing, yes i know.. on the more than one thing.. the other night i got caught out and did not get back till 4.30am. the chickens were all therefore "open" all night.. 35 ex-bats and the 10 in the laying flock.. when we got back, i had lost one. just one. out of 45 that whatever it was had access to all night.. 

(next time.. i will be keeping them shut in all day if need be incidently.. the stable is big enough indoors to give them enough room for one day shut in..)

but.. how did i only loose 1 out of 45.. if it WAS a fox.. ?? thats the bit that really makes me wonder.. the fox knows the chickens are there, and would have known we were not about.. it could have taken the lot...

only other thing i can think thats taking them is a badger.. but badgers do not leap 4ft fences in mid stride..

mind you, if it was a cat, you would think the cat would also have taken more than one.. so.. *sigh* i dunno.. i need a shot gun.. and cctv.. then i'll find out what the bastard is..

N


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Nerys said:


> PMSL.... *imagines dan with a corn snake hatchling wiggling in his goatee and a poodle under one arm*
> 
> and on the fox thing, yes i know.. on the more than one thing.. the other night i got caught out and did not get back till 4.30am. the chickens were all therefore "open" all night.. 35 ex-bats and the 10 in the laying flock.. when we got back, i had lost one. just one. out of 45 that whatever it was had access to all night..
> 
> ...


Richard says his offers still stands :whistling2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

lol, well you know you are always welcome 

it would be easy enough to set up an ambush.. there is plenty of cover nearby and you can even sit in the pantry with the gun out the window and get clear sight of where they are being taken from..

N


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Nerys said:


> lol, well you know you are always welcome
> 
> it would be easy enough to set up an ambush.. there is plenty of cover nearby and you can even sit in the pantry with the gun out the window and get clear sight of where they are being taken from..
> 
> N


he's on his way with a taxidermist on standby :lol2:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Your going to try and shoot the big cat?? Bit harsh ain't it??:lol2:


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## martin day (May 18, 2006)

what a great thread i cant beleive ive missed so much ,i think there are big cats out there when i was a kid there was a puma on the lose where i lived the papers called it the surrey puma it was takeing famers live stock 
im sure i watched a documentry on big cats in britain once so im sure theyre out there


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

bradhollands999 said:


> Your going to try and shoot the big cat?? Bit harsh ain't it??:lol2:


lol, i would not shoot it if it were a large cat.. i think i would be too busy going "OMG" and running round in circles.. lol lol lol..

martin - i do know people who have seen "large sandy cats with tufted ears" in surrey whilst out riding..

N


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

I have seen two big cats or the same one twice - but the sighting were about 10 miles apart. Interestingly a couple of days after I had seen one (didnt report it to anyone) it was in the press that a local farmer had seen one in about the same area.

I know there are lots of sceptics and to be I honest I was sceptical until I saw the first one. It was clear it was a panther, it wasnt a dog , it didnt look or move like a dog is was a big black feline. It crossed the road about 20 feet in front of my vehicle and I saw it move along the hedge before disappearing into a gap - I saw it for maybe 10 seconds

The second I saw for a much shorter time and I am prepared to say I could have been wrong. But the first - well I dont really care if people dont believe me - I know what I saw and it was really cool.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

I think the big cat theory is not just plausible but totally true.

In the last 25 or so years, l have seen perhaps three sightings, with the most recent in the last twelve months - a bit too close and personal for my dogs and myself.

The second sighting was just outside Market Deeping here in Lincolnshire 1995 on the road towards Peterborough, around about 7pm on a hot and humid balmy night in July. This large animal about 5-6 feet in length and although not black, but a very dark brown simply 'stopped traffic' when it did not run across the road but trotted across it at a leisurely pace, completely unbothered by the five cars in held up, and who were all looking completely dumbfounded, by what they knew could not be a dog!

It moved from the right side of the road to the left, went through a hedge and then sloped off across the field beside the road itself heading deeper into the field towards a large covered copse area.

The whole incident lasted for about four minutes with it crossing and eventually disappearing off into the field.

That weekend there were numerous sightings in and around the Market Deeping/Cowbit area.

The first time before that was in fact in Surrey, l was out with my father walking our setter, along chobham common, and in the distance we saw something that was not a dog, but had the graceful moves of a large feline within the fern, distance would have been about 100 feet and the dog became unsettled, it lasted for about twenty seconds and was gone.

Three other walkers also saw, especially the lady with the small dog whom at our estimate must have only been twenty five feet down wind of the animal.

In Lincolnshire we have a lot of sightings every year with more from about spring through to early autumn and its not saying that they do not make appearances during the winter, butt l am guessing with so few people out late and also much reduced visibility due to early drawn in evenings and late opening mornings, sightings will be thinner on the ground.

The Fox hunt crowd, also make numerous sightings whilst out cubbing, usually in the distance and about three years ago there were sightings in Bourne woods by horse riders taking one of the paths through there.

But as l walked along the other night with the dogs in a similiar path to where l had been only a few months before, l did give this topic some thought.

It is the concept that arose from the introduction of the 1976 legislation, and how those whom chose to not register their animals loosed them into the wilds. 30 Years ago it was rumoured that the majority were freed in the dales and much higher in the glens, but 30 odd years is a long time, and there is no reason for the cats to have not drifted down, nor is there any reason to suggest that large cats were not let go in other counties in large wooded areas, valleys and glens, on the premise that they may survive the summer and perhaps they may not survive the winter.

Any manner of licenced exotics can be sought out now providing you have the right money and the right contacts, and should an unlicenced holder have a cat get out now, are they really going to report it, especially if they live in areas that are clouded from prying eyes?

If the likes of Crested Porcupines being rescued from Oxfordshire can occur, albeit not a dwal species, but still an illegal species if you do not have the article tens nor an eps licence, and these can go un reported, then why not a larger cat?

But what would it seriously take to deliberately catch a glimpse of one of these cats?

Well apart from the unscheduled viewings that many people benefit from through out the UK, to actually set out to specifically capture a cat on film.

What would it take?

Right place, right time syndrome alone - no l think that would be a chance viewing.

But in rural Britain, it would have to be something that someone or a group would have to undertake with no guarantee of success, especially if you are working to a deadline! But where do you start?

Well the obvious would in a location where sightings have occurred perhaps, but again with a cats hunting radius there is no absolute guarantee that one could capture a photo or footage. 

Overall perhaps a field trip that would last about a year with in certain locations highly specialised filming photography, and the patience of the dead. With sufficient supplies to see you through, so that you started to smell like your surrounding area?

It is an interesting subject, but l think that as they say the 'truth is out there' and one day in our futures all will be revealed.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i have been fascinated by this topic for years, the mystery, the storys, love it!

but seriously i cant see any reason why people doubt the large cat theorys, there have been many reported sightings, and a couple of years back there was some photos in the sun news paper of a large black cat on the dartford moores.

check these links to sites dedicated to big cat sightings.Big cat monitors. The UK website dedicated to big cat sightings.
Big Cats GB - Big Cat Sightings - Evidence?

as for the fact that they are not in africa means they will not get as big, i realy cant believe that, providing that they can survive the tempratures and conditions, they have every chance of getting big, there is ample wild food supplys without having to take from farms so just because all the chickens and sheep are not dissapering it does not by any means mean they are not there. sheep and chickens have been taken though, there have been storys in the media of mutalated cattle ect. 

the chances of just going to the moores and seeing a big cat are pretty slim, i dare say people have tried, but with the right resorces, and the correct people working on it im sure that they would be able to find evidence of big cats, weather it be a corpse, a live animal or just simply some fur or stool samples that could be DNA matched...........

Only time will tell


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## Snuggles (Sep 18, 2007)

While I do believe there are big cats living wild in the UK, there was a follow up report on the large black cat at Dartmoor that had been photographed and it actually turned out to be someone's Newfoundland. That's not the Beast of Dartmoor... it's my pet dog | Mail Online


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> I think the big cat theory is not just plausible but totally true.
> 
> In the last 25 or so years, l have seen perhaps three sightings, with the most recent in the last twelve months - a bit too close and personal for my dogs and myself.
> 
> ...


Excellent post Rory...:no1::2thumb:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Snuggles said:


> While I do believe there are big cats living wild in the UK, there was a follow up report on the large black cat at Dartmoor that had been photographed and it actually turned out to be someone's Newfoundland. That's not the Beast of Dartmoor... it's my pet dog | Mail Online


Very interesting... haven't seen this report before... it has to be said that it does look like a Panther in the pic where its below all the people on the cliff, but i'm pretty sure there aren't huge Newfoundlands mistaken for big cats everywhere...:lol2:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

One of my passions is cryptozoology, so much so that on my links page the very first link l have is for CFZ, under societies, yep, it sure 'aint' a reptile society!

CFZ (Centre for Fortean Zoology) - cryptozoology, mystery animals)

Jon Downes is a client of mine, and alongside the CFZ he himself has written a few books on all things wierd and wonderful.

- STORE - cryptozoology

Obviously not just dealing with mysterious cats of the UK, but this is surely a fascinating subject for all monster hunters!

R


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## bannyian (Jun 13, 2007)

SiUK said:


> BBC iPlayer - The Lion, the Keeper and the Dealer
> 
> Its quite interesting I didnt know this many people were keeping big cats ect in NI until recently, apparently its kicked up quite a fuss amongst keepers in NI and theres been alot of complaints about it already.


taken from another thread and i thought it was relevant here, this is also on virgin on demand


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

Snuggles said:


> While I do believe there are big cats living wild in the UK, there was a follow up report on the large black cat at Dartmoor that had been photographed and it actually turned out to be someone's Newfoundland. That's not the Beast of Dartmoor... it's my pet dog | Mail Online


not the same as the story i see im afraid pic was completly different.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mmm, yep, I'd say that was a Newfoundland in the bottom of that photo too.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

When people talk about big cats in Britain, most people thnik of the panthers, leopards & pumas that we see in the sightings news, etc, but I suppose cats such as lynx, jungle cats, ocelots, caracals, etc will be out there but obviously even harder to spot.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Very much so, in fact despite not being updated since 2005, this is the identification chart they use and work to

British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mmm, interesting Rory


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## woodsy (Nov 29, 2007)

there has been wild cats court all over the place! if you were in the new forest for example there is know way you would see a large cat, it would be 20 steps ahead of you and completely aware of your presence and they are the kings of stealth!


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Well think how well they camouflage on the open savannah in Africa... and thats without all the trees we have...


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

absolutely love lynx's when my mum had the pet shop with a small zoo on the back she had 2 of these and they were fantastic! unfortunately financial problems caused the place to close and they went of to zoos along with the lemars, merkaks, arctic fox, jungle cats, desert cats and all the other pals!


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Lynx's can be tamed quite easily as well can't they?? Plus i doubt they'd ever attack a human unless provoked...


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

one we had was quiet domesticated, but we never took any chances, may be one of the smaller of the large cats but they are still pretty fierce LOL


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah they have a nice set of claws on them... teeth are quite big as well...:lol2:


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## RoninUK (Aug 30, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> Lynx's can be tamed quite easily as well can't they?? Plus i doubt they'd ever attack a human unless provoked...


There used to be a guy in Scandanavia that had a tame Lynx which was used for photo shoots (he may still do) - in fact it featured on an ad for cameras draped over his shoulders nuzzling him. There was one in a small zoo in the UK who was a terrible pet bugging his keeper until he fussed him and scratched his chin and tummy.

On what leopards would eat (from earlier in the thread) dogs seem to be a favourite food and reports of them taking village dogs in India feature in "white hunters" tales going back to the start of last century - even going into houses to take the dogs.

With the spread of urban development in India lots more leopards have become "urbanised" and seem to be targetting dogs in a big way. I can't see any reason they would not make the same choice here and most missing dogs would be assumed lost or an unreported traffic fatality.

Mark


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

knighty said:


> one we had was quiet domesticated, but we never took any chances, may be one of the smaller of the large cats but they are still pretty fierce LOL


There's an understatement! :lol2:

I had a run in with a Serval that wasn't as easily dealt with as i had planned :whistling2:


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

RoninUK said:


> There used to be a guy in Scandanavia that had a tame Lynx which was used for photo shoots (he may still do) - in fact it featured on an ad for cameras draped over his shoulders nuzzling him. There was one in a small zoo in the UK who was a terrible pet bugging his keeper until he fussed him and scratched his chin and tummy.
> 
> On what leopards would eat (from earlier in the thread) dogs seem to be a favourite food and reports of them taking village dogs in India feature in "white hunters" tales going back to the start of last century - even going into houses to take the dogs.
> 
> ...


Good post and yeah they could easily take most dogs undetected i suppose...: victory:


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## dracco (May 17, 2008)

My hubby went to play golf one sunday and was warned by staff to stay away from the wooded area as a man had been walking his dog the day before a full grown alsation and it had ran into the wooded area and was attacked and killed .My hubby had seen this dog before and said it was a very large dog .It was reported in the papers and people had previously reported seen a large black cat like animal in the area .officials say that it probably has been feeding on rabbits as the golf course had a very large amount of them running wild.Quite frightning told my hubby to find a new golf course


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## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

dracco said:


> My hubby went to play golf one sunday and was warned by staff to stay away from the wooded area as a man had been walking his dog the day before a full grown alsation and it had ran into the wooded area and was attacked and killed .My hubby had seen this dog before and said it was a very large dog .It was reported in the papers and people had previously reported seen a large black cat like animal in the area .officials say that it probably has been feeding on rabbits as the golf course had a very large amount of them running wild.Quite frightning told my hubby to find a new golf course


I doubt a big cat would randomly attack an Alsation... I reckon the Alsation would have attacked the cat first... couldn't they do a PM on the body and find cause of death??


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Personally, yeah, i think there here so as raccoons, wild boar and probably even the odd monkey living on our shores. I have found a green anole once, climbing across my window sill, yeah honest. Plus were our atmosphere is warming up. I heard once, if it carries on this way, we could end up with the reptiles from america and similier temps over here within 15 years!.:devil:


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## Frilled13 (Mar 4, 2008)

i believe there true and alive, watch animal 24:7 and some of the big cat footage on there is enough to convince you.


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## dracco (May 17, 2008)

The alsation was attacked by a large cat and this cat has been seen by many people and people using the golf course have been warned not to go into trees at anytime


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## shelley_draven (Jul 5, 2008)

Excellent thread, i'm glad i found it now. 

I remember travelling through Exmoor on the way to holiday when i was about 10. I thought I saw a large black cat cross the road behind us, I told my mom and she laughed thinking i was joking. Although, my dad caught a glimpse in the mirror but it was gone before he got a good look.

I'd love to know exactly what animals are loose in the countryside as a result of the DWAA, i suppose it's something we'll never know.


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