# Natrix natrix helvetica



## GargGecko (Jan 1, 2014)

Dear Reptile Forumers

I am doing a project on our native _Natrix natrix_ helvetica for my master's project research. I am specifically looking to see if I can find out whether there are any populations of non-native subspecies successfully established in the wild. There are many subspecies of N. natrix which could have been released to the wild, and I am looking to see of they are having any negative effects on our native fauna. At a site in Yorkshire at the Esholt Sewage Facility, a population of Russian N. natrix has been found, and more have been suggested around the country. 

I have started by looking at known subspecies and conducting PCR to measure the genetic variation. I will be travelling to a site in Surrey to sample some snakes there as there have been anecdotal reports of atypical colour morphs being seen there. It has been suggested that _Natrix natrix persa_ and _Natrix tesselata_ are present at the site, due to releases into the wild of these European snakes from a now closed breeding facility.

I would like to ask for help on my project. If anybody keeps _N. natrix_ and would be willing to send me their skin sloughs, I would be able to test the subspecies. It will be particularly useful if you know the original source/location of your snakes. Alternatively, if you know of any areas will abundant grass snake numbers, let me know and I might be able to go and sample there.

Thanks very much!
Alexandra


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## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

Good luck with this but you'll probably get a better response on the main snakes section as the wildlife section is unfortunately not to often frequented


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## GargGecko (Jan 1, 2014)

*Cheers*

Ok thanks for the tip!


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## GargGecko (Jan 1, 2014)

Update on my project... so far I have sampled four snakes from the sites I have been looking at. Already been seeing some interesting colour morphs, can't wait for the results


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

I have also heard of _Natrix natrix persa_ in this country. I own some CB Natrix maura although I'm not sure what you're testing the sheds for? Can you elaborate on that? Sounds like a cool project though, keep us updated.


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## GargGecko (Jan 1, 2014)

*Project*

It is a great project, I've seen more grass snakes than my entire life (although the number I had seen was 0 when I began, so not that difficult to beat) Basically, what I will be doing is testing the shed skins to look at the phylogenetic diversity, because it is relatively easy to extract the DNA. It's in the very early stages though and I am also still learning the laboratory techniques. 

Basically I was hoping if anyone had any wild caught snakes from Britain they were keeping, then it would be cool to test the skin sloughs. I know it's a long shot as not many people keep them and might not want to let me know. My supervisor has an _N. maura_ which I have already tested, so I don't really have a use for yours but I really appreciate the offer  Also I haven't seen many _Natrix natrix_ in the trade, I suppose they rarely come through. Where did you get your _N. maura_, if you don't mind me asking?


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

GargGecko said:


> It is a great project, I've seen more grass snakes than my entire life (although the number I had seen was 0 when I began, so not that difficult to beat) Basically, what I will be doing is testing the shed skins to look at the phylogenetic diversity, because it is relatively easy to extract the DNA. It's in the very early stages though and I am also still learning the laboratory techniques.
> 
> Basically I was hoping if anyone had any wild caught snakes from Britain they were keeping, then it would be cool to test the skin sloughs. I know it's a long shot as not many people keep them and might not want to let me know. My supervisor has an _N. maura_ which I have already tested, so I don't really have a use for yours but I really appreciate the offer  Also I haven't seen many _Natrix natrix_ in the trade, I suppose they rarely come through. Where did you get your _N. maura_, if you don't mind me asking?


My _N. maura_ were captive bred by Stuart Taylor and sold to me at Kidderminster Reptile Show probably 2 or 3 years back now. I don't think you will find a great deal of people keeping helvetica or even _Natrix natrix natrix_ in this country. A lot of people find taking wild natives a bit of an ethical dilemma. Despite the obvious hypocrisy behind that. 

_Natrix natrix natrix_ are occasionally brought into the country from the Hamm and Houten shows in Europe. Although the numbers still seem small.


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## GargGecko (Jan 1, 2014)

Yea, I realise it's a bit of an issue. Although it's perfectly legal to keep them, people may still think that I'm going undercover on them or something. 
It's a shame that politics gets in the way of these things. Fortunately my supervisor has a few contacts in hero conservation groups so I will hopefully still be able to get some decent results.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

GargGecko said:


> Yea, I realise it's a bit of an issue. Although it's perfectly legal to keep them, people may still think that I'm going undercover on them or something.
> It's a shame that politics gets in the way of these things. Fortunately my supervisor has a few contacts in hero conservation groups so I will hopefully still be able to get some decent results.


I'm sure your best bet is to contact the reptile groups and ARG UK as well as the more general conservation charities. Good luck with your project anyway.


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## JSI Jay (Sep 19, 2010)

Hi have you tried froglife they do a lot of surveying of nature sites,they are better than rspca do gooder`s.And try wrexham council park rangers in north wales, i take my kids to there grass snake days.



Froglife - Leaping forward for reptiles and amphibians 

hope this helps


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