# single factor/double factor



## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

wtf does it all mean???

is it just a confusing way of saying heterozygous or homozygous??

...but for people who don't properly understand what het/**** means because I only seem to see it when applied to co-dom or dominant morphs???


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

eeji said:


> wtf does it all mean???
> 
> is it just a confusing way of saying heterozygous or homozygous??
> 
> ...but for people who don't properly understand what het/**** means because I only seem to see it when applied to co-dom or dominant morphs???


Single factor & Double factor is a less confusing was to say Heterozygous and Homozygous in DOMINANT morphs.Example-
Single factor Enigma Heterozygous Balbino & patternless.
less comnfusing than saying.
Heterozygous Enigma Heterozygous Balbino & patternless.

IMO Heterozygous mean carrier of a trait but NOT expressing.Now Enigma & Hypo both Express the trait they are so called Heterozygous for that to me is double dutch.


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

It`s used because some morphs can be visual hets. ie a mack snow is actually a leo that is `het` mack snow, a double factor (2 copies of the snow gene) would make a Super Snow. A better example would be the enigma - which is a dominant gene. It`s not the same as saying `het` coz you can`t have het enigmas - if it`s het, then it`s an enigma. Because it`s dominant then only 1 enigma gene has to be passed on, from 1 parent, to make the babies enigmas. A single factor enigma will produce 50% enigma babies. If both parents of an enigma are enigmas, then they both pass on the gene (this makes the babies `double factor` - the baby gets an enigma gene from both parents). A double factor enigma will produce 100% enigma babies.


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

eeji said:


> for people who don't properly understand what het/**** means


Yep..


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

gazz said:


> Single factor & Double factor is a less confusing was to say Heterozygous and Homozygous in DOMINANT morphs.Example-
> Single factor Enigma Heterozygous Balbino & patternless.
> less comnfusing than saying.
> Heterozygous Enigma Heterozygous Balbino & patternless.
> ...


....but hets CAN be visual, as in co-dom and dominant morphs, you already acknowledge that with your hypo and enigma examples.
IMO people are confusing things further by inventing new words for words that already exist, because they don't properly understand what the words mean :?




funky1 said:


> It`s used because some morphs can be visual hets. ie a mack snow is actually a leo that is `het` mack snow, a double factor (2 copies of the snow gene) would make a Super Snow. A better example would be the enigma - which is a dominant gene. It`s not the same as saying `het` coz you can`t have het enigmas - if it`s het, then it`s an enigma. Because it`s dominant then only 1 enigma gene has to be passed on, from 1 parent, to make the babies enigmas. A single factor enigma will produce 50% enigma babies. If both parents of an enigma are enigmas, then they both pass on the gene (this makes the babies `double factor` - the baby gets an enigma gene from both parents). A double factor enigma will produce 100% enigma babies.


you've just written a very conflicting answer there. 'you can't have het enigmas - if its het then its an enigma'.
I get what you're trying to say, but at the end of the day if an enigma is het, then it is still het enigma.

heterozygous simply means that 2 alleles on a locus are different. In no way does it mean or even imply that a trait is 'hidden'. That is just a huge misinterpretation caused by early morphs all being recessive, so back then yes, het could be interpreted as hidden but that idea has no real place in todays world of morphs.
het is still het, whether the trait is visible or not, and whether its recessive, codominant, incompletely codominant, or dominant.



Blackecho said:


> Yep..


:2thumb:


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

eeji said:


> you've just written a very conflicting answer there. 'you can't have het enigmas - if its het then its an enigma'.
> I get what you're trying to say, but at the end of the day if an enigma is het, then it is still het enigma.
> het is still het, whether the trait is visible or not, and whether its recessive, codominant, incompletely codominant, or dominant.
> 
> ...


I get what you`re picking up on, but the guy wanted a simplified answer. If he goes out tomorrow and buys an enigma without seeing the parents, he isn`t going to go round telling people that "it`s either an enigma or het enigma - coz I`m not sure if it`s SF or DF" hes going to call it an enigma! Ok then, I meant to say "the enigma gene cannot be carried around as a hidden het due to it`s dominance, it only requires one enigma allele at a specific locus, to make the leopard gecko visually appear an enigma - this is known as a single factor enigma. An enigma with 2 enigma alleles at a paticular locus (the result of 2 enigma parents both passing on a copy of the gene) is known as a double factor enigma"
But yeah, you`re right!  but like I said - just tryna simply it a bit (prob more for me than anyne else haha!)
Quick genuine question for you - what does hemizygous mean/indicate?


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

funky1 said:


> Quick genuine question for you - what does hemizygous mean/indicate?


I had to look that one up! 
Its when a locus has only one allele instead of two, so the single present allele is expressed.

thats my something new learned for today! 

....does this have any relevance to morphs though? (genuinely interested  )


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

eeji said:


> ....does this have any relevance to morphs though? (genuinely interested  )


Haha, it wasn`t a trick question! Just wondered if there were `hemizygous` examples out there, as in could it be possible to have one albino parent and the offspring to be hemizygous albino? Maybe way off track, and got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to it`s true meaning though!!! I dunno, just think the genetics stuff is interesting and it`s useful to get a grip on it when it comes to leo breeding.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

funky1 said:


> Haha, it wasn`t a trick question! Just wondered if there were `hemizygous` examples out there, as in could it be possible to have one albino parent and the offspring to be hemizygous albino? Maybe way off track, and got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to it`s true meaning though!!! I dunno, just think the genetics stuff is interesting and it`s useful to get a grip on it when it comes to leo breeding.


If I understand what "hemizygous" means...

The only case in which that might happen is where a colour trait was something like the sex-linked colour genes in cats. For example, a female cat can be homozygous black (solid black) OR homozygous orange (ginger) - or heterozygous for both (codominant tortoiseshell). 

A male cat, on the other hand, because that colour trait is carried only on the X chromosome, can only carry one of the above traits - hemizygous black or hemizygous orange - and cannot (failing mosaicism or being XXY) be tortoiseshell at all.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

eeji said:


> ....but hets CAN be visual, as in co-dom and dominant morphs, you already acknowledge that with your hypo and enigma examples.
> IMO people are confusing things further by inventing new words for words that already exist, because they don't properly understand what the words mean :?


Can be visual HET in Co-dom NOT dominant.

Mack snow are HET's.But there Visual HET's for Super snow.So don't look the same as there **** state.

Mack snow(HET) visually looks differant than normals.And visually looks differant than Super snow(****).

Enigma(HET) visually looks differant than normals.But visually looks the same as Enigma(MOMO).


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

But a heterozygous enigma, even if it looks the same as a homozygous enigma, is still a *het* enigma - it is still heterozygous for the enigma gene.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

I really don't see the need for the creation of new terms for this, Heterozygous simply means different alleles and homozygous means the same alleles at any given loci.

For the enigma example, you can either be homozygous enigma (two copies) or Heterozygous enigma (one copy)....

The reason for single/double factor is a misunderstanding of the word heterozygous, that has already been mentioned.

Andy


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> But a heterozygous enigma, even if it looks the same as a homozygous enigma, is still a *het* enigma - it is still heterozygous for the enigma gene.


Yes i know how it all work but as far as i'm concerned Heterozygous mean carrier but not expressing.Now a so called heterozygoues enigma dosen't look like a normal leo.A so called Heterozygous enigma has short cut to homozygous enigma look.I much prefer the term single factor-(you get half the amount of enigma) and Double factor-(you get all enigma).I don't see how you call a leo that wearing a visual enigma skin HET i fully know why but surely there better terms.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

GlasgowGecko said:


> Heterozygous enigma (one copy)....


Works on it own (HETenigma) now now start adding morphs. 

Mack snow (het)enigma blizzard (HET) patternless & Talbino.

(IMO better)
Mack snow (SF)enigma blizzard (HET) patternless & Talbino.

I know which take less time to explain. 

To me HET is carrier but not expressing (SF)enigmas are expressing the enigma look you just get half the of enigma offspring.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

gazz said:


> Works on it own (HETenigma) now now start adding morphs.
> 
> Mack snow (het)enigma blizzard (HET) patternless & Talbino.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying, but mixing terms is a dangerous game, that will ultimately lead to more confusion. It all seems to boil down to a misunderstanding of the term heterozygous (not in your case), that needs addressing. In my opinion, I wouldn't add terms will no real scientific founding...

Andy


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## Blackecho (Jun 30, 2008)

gazz said:


> as far as i'm concerned Heterozygous mean carrier but not expressing


But that is not what it means, just what you choose to use it for.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Blackecho said:


> But that is not what it means, just what you choose to use it for.


I think you'll find that the biggist half of the reptile world apply the word (HET) as carrier not exprssing.In accordance with the recessive trait.Is why people get lost when you tell the that there enigma is (HET) and they sit there a with you saying 'I's not (HET) it a enigma' you can't get (HET) enigma.Coz there thinking on the lines of normal (HET) enigma.I've found it WAY more esayer to say Single factor enigma then that is still a enigma as they herd and see it they just get half the amount of enigma offspring when they breed from it.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

gazz said:


> I think you'll find that the biggist half of the reptile world apply the word (HET) as carrier not exprssing.In accordance with the recessive trait.Is why people get lost when you tell the that there enigma is (HET) and they sit there a with you saying 'I's not (HET) it a enigma' you can't get (HET) enigma.Coz there thinking on the lines of normal (HET) enigma.I've found it WAY more esayer to say Single factor enigma then that is still a enigma as they herd and see it they just get half the amount of enigma offspring when they breed from it.


if thats the case, then the biggest half of the reptile world are wrong, and need to learn the REAL meaning of heterozygous.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

eeji said:


> if thats the case, then the biggest half of the reptile world are wrong, and need to learn the REAL meaning of heterozygous.


Then i leave it to you to teach them.Me i'm happy with single factor/double factor-(one copy/two copy).

Good luck :lol2:.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

"I have taken the word 'no' to mean 'yes'."


That is what you have done Gazz. 

An animal that has two different alleles at a particular locus is heterozygous at that locus (from the root 'hetero' meaning different (as in heterosexual) and 'zygote' meaning fertilised egg.) An animal that has two alleles that are the same at a particular locus is homozygous at that locus (from the root '****' meaning 'the same' (think homosexual).

From your posts, I think you already know that. If that is the case, then why would you possibly 'decide' that it means something different?

Just because you decide to take the meaning of a word to mean something that it does not mean, does not mean that new terms are needed.

heterozygous applies to any locus that has two different alleles within the same animal regardless of whether the particular allele is dominant, co-dominant, incomplete dominant or recessive.

Cheers

Andy


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

eeji said:


> if thats the case, then the biggest half of the reptile world are wrong, and need to learn the REAL meaning of heterozygous.


100% correct. 

As for hemizygous, the only mutant in snakes that (as far as I know) COULD be sexlinked is brindle in the North American common rat snake. I've only had hearsay evidence though.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Well, 99% correct - gotta :lol2: at 'biggest half' (or even 'biggist half' as it was originally!)

Cheers

Andy


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