# goldfish problems



## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi I am looking for some advice from more experienced fish owners than myself. My son has had a cold water tank set up for well over a month now. We thought we had cycled it (ran for over a week before adding fish) but 1st goldfish died within a week (although we believe it was unwell when purchased) the tank was then left for 2 weeks before adding 2 fantails (water test was fine). These two fish are showing signs of ill health and appear to have fin rot. I have done frequent water changes 50%. So my questions are: 
Should I be doing daily water changes?
How do I try to cycle my tank with fish in?
Will adding stress coat help the fish now?
Any other advice would be greatly accepted.
Many thanks


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## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

you should do a 25% water change once a week, it takes 1 week to cycle your tank if you believe your fish to have fin rot you should try to treat them for it


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for help sorry I didn't mention that I think it is the water that is causeing the problem. I did an amonia test today and that was raised so I did the 50% water change today. I am guessing that the tank is not cycled fully and that is why the ammonia is building up. That is why I am thinking that I need to do frequent water changes at the moment


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## Gemificus (Jan 26, 2007)

a water change will raise the ammonia levels remember water is full of chemicals and depending where you are the softness/hardness of your water can become a factor, its better when changing the water to leave it a while to stand first so that the chlorine can evaporate but try not to leave it too long as it may become stale or stagnant, stop the water changes and let them settle for a couple of days and look into the fish illnesses to make sure it is finrot that they have then you will need to treat them, also when you clean your filter which is recommended once a month use the water you have taken from the tank to clean it so that you keep the balance, 

i hope this information helps you out i have a spare how to look after your goldfish book i can post to you if you want it let me know how things work out


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for your help Gemi. Unfortunatly we lost a fish overnight. The other fantail is looking poorly its fins are all intact but looking cloudy ?white spot (although I can not see any definate spots). I did treat the water for chlorine before putting in tank but I guess I didn't factor in other chemicals in tap water. Just not sure now what to do to help this one. I have a feeling that the filter bacteria is not established enough and this is why we have poor water quality, problem is I just don't know how to improve it as the tank has been set up for over a month now. Any sugestions. Thanks again.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Can I just point out the following please :-

A tank won't necessarily cycle within a week. The only way to tell if a filter has cycled is to use ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits and track the cycles progress by daily testing when setting the tank up. Using a liquid maturing agent you will notice a "spike" of ammonia, then nitrite etc. Over time the levels will drop to zero. At this point you can safely stock the tank slowly.

Performing a water change WILL NOT RAISE the levels of ammonia! Tap water does not contain it as it would be unsafe for humans to drink! It will however contain chlorine that is harmful to fish. As has been said earlier leaving the water to stand for 24 hours will get rid of it. Or use a product such as Tetra Aquasafe to dechlorinate it. Changing more than 25% of the tank water is potentially stressful to your fish.

What kind of filter do you have? Are you medicating the fantail with suspected fin rot?


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

HI MJ75 the tank has a stingray filter in it been set up for over a month now. All the water I have added I have treated with tap safe or equivilent, but have not always let it stand for hours prior to adding it to tank. At present I have not added anything for the ?finrot as am still not sure if that is what is wrong. I am very open to advice as I don't want anymore fish until we are sorted.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> HI MJ75 the tank has a stingray filter in it been set up for over a month now. All the water I have added I have treated with tap safe or equivilent, but have not always let it stand for hours prior to adding it to tank. At present I have not added anything for the ?finrot as am still not sure if that is what is wrong. I am very open to advice as I don't want anymore fish until we are sorted.


What media do you have in your stingray filter? If you have carbon (aka activated charcoal) then remove it. Go to your nearest pet shop and buy some fin rot medication and dose as per instructions. 

Don't feed for the next three days or so and perform a daily 15 to 20% water change. Unless you can rehome the sick fish in a tank with a mature filter? That would be better. You may be able to save the fish doing what I've suggested though.

Hope that helps.

MJ


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Hi
There seems to be a number of posts recently concerning cycling a tank. There appears to be many people who have been told by staff at fish shops to set the tank up and leave in running for a week. This is total rubbish.
I have written a section on "Cycling your Filter" on my webbie (link below).
Cycling a filter from start to finish can take up to 12 weeks, but of course you have to be adding a waste product. Normally, pure ammonia is used, but obviously not when there are fish in the tank.

Betta Information | Cycling Your Filter


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## mariekni (Apr 8, 2009)

could it not be that the place you got the fish from in the first place are to blame? if the fish were ill before you introduced them to your tank and you didnt pick up on it then you are bound to start blaming poor water quality or un cycled tank. just a thought anyway


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

mariekni said:


> could it not be that the place you got the fish from in the first place are to blame? if the fish were ill before you introduced them to your tank and you didnt pick up on it then you are bound to start blaming poor water quality or un cycled tank. just a thought anyway


It's possible they were sick. But the poster has tested for ammonia and found it to be present. So if it wasn't sick, it was certainly going to get sick due to the water conditions it's been placed into.

In this instance (And this is not a criticism of the poster!!!) you can't blame the shop it came from. Lots of fishkeepers do this. But at the end of the day it's the person who buys the fish who should accept total responsibility for buying and keeping the fish in the first place. If the buyer hasn't done enough research into being able to identify a healthy fish, should they really be keeping them? In this instance I suspect the fish were healthy in the shop and the toxic ammonia will be to blame.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

andy007 said:


> Hi
> There seems to be a number of posts recently concerning cycling a tank. There appears to be many people who have been told by staff at fish shops to set the tank up and leave in running for a week. This is total rubbish.


I tend to agree. What makes me laugh is that a number of internet resources seem to suggest that fishless cycling is new. It isn't Waterlife Research have a product called "Seamature" that I used to cycle saltwater tanks over 20 years ago!!!


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi you are right I am not here to blame the shop although they have admitted themselves that they have had many fish fatalities from the same tank I bought my original two from (both died in less than a week after I got them. I had the water tested beofre the 2 fantails went in the water was fine no amonia of nitate evident. I am now getting confused as what to do best. Oh I have kept tropical fish for a number of years so I feel confident at choosing healthy fish. All fish have looked healthy at purchase.


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## Gutted2BLeaving (Jul 6, 2009)

OK I have a few question that haven't been asked.

1, How big is the tank?
2, How many fish were introduced and over what period of time?
3, How big were the fish?
4, How often are they being fed and how much is being introduced?
5, At what level was the ammonia recorded?

I think I am right in stating that any aquatic medical treatment requires that activated carbon be removed before introducing t to the tank. If you have it in the filter, then as advised, remove it.
The other issue with Activated Charcol is that it will work for a period of time then once exhausted it simply dumps everything it has removed from the water straight back into it. So you need to be on the ball with it. If the ammonia was high, you could have introduced an appropriate ammonia remover to the filter, I seem to recall fluval do such a product, but you would need to check that it wouldn't cause a problem with any medication being introduced into the aquaria.

Moving forward, make sure you have succesfully treated the fin rot before buying any more fish. If the remaining fish don't make it and go the same way as the others, I would suggest a complete strip down and thorough clean out before starting again.

To cycle the tank properly you could set it up and then rinse a filter sponge out in the water from one of your tropical tanks (assuming you still have one) :lol2:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> Hi you are right I am not here to blame the shop although they have admitted themselves that they have had many fish fatalities from the same tank I bought my original two from (both died in less than a week after I got them. I had the water tested beofre the 2 fantails went in the water was fine no amonia of nitate evident. I am now getting confused as what to do best. Oh I have kept tropical fish for a number of years so I feel confident at choosing healthy fish. All fish have looked healthy at purchase.


OK from reading your posts it's clear that your filter has not matured and you now have an ammonia spike as a result. I appreciate multiple questionsand answers from different people can cause confusion to!

You need to treat your fish before it gets worse. 

Ideally your fish should be placed in a hospital tank with a mature filter. Nut again I appreciate you may not have this. However, you suggest you have a tropical tank? If you do, could you transfer some mature filter media from the trop tank to the stingray filter in your goldfish tank? This would aid with water quality.

Let me know and we can go from there.

MJ


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

no tropical fish now unfortunatly. Tank is 35l. First fish went in after a week and died in less than a week. 2nd set of fish went in 2 weeks later water was tested and fine at that point. They have been in nearly 2 weeks one died yesterday. I have taken carbon filter out and treated water for white sopt as fins are all intact with closer inspection fins appear cloudy white mottled. They were fed 4 pellets daily. Ammonia test yesterday before water change was 1.0 ppm(mg/L) today its 0.5 ppm(mg/L)


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Hi

I'm assuming it dropped 0.5 ppm due to a large 50% water change? Can you confirm if this is correct or not? I'd stop feeding for now in an attempt to stop ammonia levels increasing any more. Your fish will fine for a few days without any food. I'd also test the water on a daily bais to watch the tank cycle. Do you have a nitrite test kit also? If so, whats the NO2 level? Also, keep performing 20% daily water changes to keep the ammonia levels down. This is far from ideal, particularly as the fish is already sick, but in the absence of no other tank he'll still have a chance.

Let us know how you get on.

P.S It won't be too long before someone points out that your oranda will soon outgrow a 35 litre tank, but they can be easily rehoused when the time is right..


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi MJ57 yes that is correct about the ammoina levels. I don't have a nitrate test kit think i will get a better test kit for everything. Right will stop feeding and do a water change off now to fill up a few jugs and to leave them for a good few hours. thanks will keep you posted. I will be quite happy if this fish makes it long enough to outgrow the tank!!


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> P.S It won't be too long before someone points out that your oranda will soon outgrow a 35 litre tank, but they can be easily rehoused when the time is right..


Unless they are stunted and then you can keep it in there longer :2thumb:


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## The Chillinator (Jun 26, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> Unless they are stunted and then you can keep it in there longer :2thumb:


The stunting will be happening now, it's better not to leave it until the problems start to take their toll.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

alpharoyals said:


> Unless they are stunted and then you can keep it in there longer :2thumb:


You know fella, I'm looking for a Royal at the moment. Thanks for your comments in the fish section. I'd never knowingly buy an animal from someone who has such blatant disregard for animal welfare. I have one "breeder" less to look at now. 

I pity your animals.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Agreed^^ That was a pretty stupid thing to say:whip:


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

MJ75 said:


> You know fella, I'm looking for a Royal at the moment. Thanks for your comments in the fish section. I'd never knowingly buy an animal from someone who has such blatant disregard for animal welfare. I have one "breeder" less to look at now.
> 
> I pity your animals.


You dont know anything about me or my animals! my fish and royals are kept in top condition and I have a hell of a lot of regard for animal welfare!

I wouldnt want to sell a royal to you as you seem to think you know it all and I wouldnt think you have enough knowledge to be trusted looking after a snake.


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

The thing to remember AlphaRoyals, is that in cyberspace all we know of eachother is what we write, therefore indicating to someone that it is ok to keep fish in unsuitable conditions leads people to believe that, A) you dont know what you're talking about, or B) you dont care.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

andy007 said:


> The thing to remember AlphaRoyals, is that in cyberspace all we know of eachother is what we write, therefore indicating to someone that it is ok to keep fish in unsuitable conditions leads people to believe that, A) you dont know what you're talking about, or B) you dont care.


Hence my comments.....

Alpharoyals could well be the greatest snake keeper known to man. But based on his posts, he's possibly not the worlds greatest aquarist.


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

andy007 said:


> The thing to remember AlphaRoyals, is that in cyberspace all we know of eachother is what we write, therefore indicating to someone that it is ok to keep fish in unsuitable conditions leads people to believe that, A) you dont know what you're talking about, or B) you dont care.


I havent indicated to anyone thats its ok to keep fish in unsuitable conditions, I was being sarcastic! 



MJ75 said:


> Hence my comments.....
> 
> Alpharoyals could well be the greatest snake keeper known to man. But based on his posts, he's possibly not the worlds greatest aquarist.


Once again, I am not claiming to be an expert!


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## andy007 (May 13, 2008)

Then maybe a "LOL" gif would have been more suitable, if it were meant as sarcasm


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

andy007 said:


> Then maybe a "LOL" gif would have been more suitable, if it were meant as sarcasm


point taken :blush:




:lol2: (is it too late now :whistling2


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Sadly, you're experiencing a common problem with setting up a new fish tank - little or no advice from the LFS on the best way to make it safe for the fish. :devil:

I suggest you get an API Master Test Kit, test the water daily and do 50% water changes on a daily basis until both the ammonia and nitrite are zero. Be patient, it could take a couple of weeks to sort out. Also, cut back the feeding to every other day to reduce the amount of fish waste (and thus ammonia) being produced. : victory:


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

So 50% water change not 20%. Ok will do more tomorrow.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

jamjar said:


> So 50% water change not 20%. Ok will do more tomorrow.


Yep, the more you change, the more the toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite are reduced which lessens the effect on the fish. I had to do daily water changes of 50% for over three weeks when I first set up my tank. Sadly I lost several fish both during and after the cycling process which is why it annoys me that LFS are still giving the same wrong advice...:bash:

If you're detecting nitrite then adding half a teaspoon of dissolved salt per 45L will help as the chlorine ions outcompete the nitrite for uptake in the fish gills...: victory:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> So 50% water change not 20%. Ok will do more tomorrow.


I'd say that you don't go above 20 or 25% daily.

It's true that you will reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrite. BUT you will also put a stressed fish under even more stress. You'll also dilute the medication you are using and the fish will probably die as a resuslt. Also, if the water isn't properly dechlorinated such a large water change could also kill the few good bacteria you alreadyhave. I can see where Trillian is coming from but think you need to lessen the stress placed on the fish.

Can you get hold of any mature filter media from anywhere? If you have friends with aquaria can they swap a bit with you? Have you tried your local fish shops? If you explain that you need to mature a filter very quickly they may be able to help? Doing this is much better than large daily water changes if possible.

I appreciate the confusion here but if you look at your priorities you have an already sick fish that needs treating. You must follow the manufactuers instructions or the fish is doomed. Water changes will dilute the medication so do make sure you add medication or it won't get better.

Your fish will be fine for a few days with no food. Feeding every other day will add to the ammonia that we're trying to reduce. So I really would stop feeding for the next four days or so.

Maybe it's best if you measure the ammonia level on a daily basis at the same time to track your filters progress. Maybe start with the samller water changes and no feeding regime and see how it goes. A level of 1 ppm is very bad but goldfish may be able to tolerate it for short periods of time. You're at 0.5 now, so if it rises above 1ppm then look at a larger change. If it stays at 0.5 or lessens over the next few days stick with the smaller changes.

Technically there is no right or wrong. The best way couild only be determined by having 2 identical set ups and measuring which tank matures the quickest (And has a live fish in it at the end!!!) using your test kit.

Remember the fish needs medicating regardless though! Diluting the meds is bad! The more you replace due to larger water changes the more you are actualy overdosing too which is also not good.

I hope that all makes sense? Let me know if it does not.

Cheers

MJ

P.S In my earlier post I said nitrite. You replied with "nitrate". They're not the same thing with the former being more toxic to fish,. Make sure you get the right test kit. Good luck...


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok thanks things are starting to make sense. 1 question may be silly but here goes. If I manage to get hold of some media (I am guessing that it will be a bag of water in which the filter has been rinsed) do I just pour it into my tank?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> Ok thanks things are starting to make sense. 1 question may be silly but here goes. If I manage to get hold of some media (I am guessing that it will be a bag of water in which the filter has been rinsed) do I just pour it into my tank?


The only "silly question" is the one you were too afraid to ask! 

Media is a term used for the stuff we place in filters. Be it filter wool, ceramic rings or carbon etc. You need some mature ceramic rings or sponge etc. If you talk to your shop they should be able to advise. Tell them what kind of filter you have etc.

Good luck.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Also, if the water isn't properly dechlorinated such a large water change could also kill the few good bacteria you alreadyhave. I can see where Trillian is coming from but think you need to lessen the stress placed on the fish.


I'd agree with you if this was a tank showing high nitrates as several small water changes are preferable in that instance to acclimitize the fish to the recommended nitrate level. But this is a tank that's going through the Nitrogen Cycle and thus, poisoning the fish so large water changes on a daily basis are the best way to get it under control.

Also, water changes do not adversely affect the bacteria level since the majority of them are in the filter media NOT the water column. However, I agree that adding some mature filter media would be the best way to go to get the tank cycled quicker...: victory:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> I'd agree with you if this was a tank showing high nitrates as several small water changes are preferable in that instance to acclimitize the fish to the recommended nitrate level. But this is a tank that's going through the Nitrogen Cycle and thus, poisoning the fish so large water changes on a daily basis are the best way to get it under control.


Tanks go through the nitrogen cycle continuosly Trillian. Unless you mean it's initial cycle? Large water changes will lower the level of ammonia more than smaller ones, yes. I've said that earlier, but larger water changes are more stressfull to the fish.

In this instance the fish is sick and so minimal stress is important. Also, it's currently being medicated by the owner. So minimal stress is even more important. Doing the huge 50% water changes you suggest will dilute the medication. Meds break down over time, and I've suggested topping up the medication with the water changes. This will result in an incorrect amount of mediaction in any case. So again, smaller water changes are advantageous from this point of view as the total medication given to the fish will be more inline with the manufactuers instructions if smaller water changes are performed.



Trillian said:


> Also, water changes do not adversely affect the bacteria level since the majority of them are in the filter media NOT the water column. However, I agree that adding some mature filter media would be the best way to go to get the tank cycled quicker...: victory:


If ou reread my post it states that if the water is not dechlorinated properly you rish reducing the amount of bacteria the poster has. If chlorine is present the bacteria are at risk wherever they are.

I fully appreciate what you are saying, thats why I suggested managing the problem on a daily basis and keeping an eye on the ammonia level in particular on a daily basis. As I said earlier she can consider larger water changes if the ammonia levels increase. If they start to decrease steadily from now on then smaller water changes are better to the fish.

Try performing daily 50% water changes in a reef ank or a tank with newly imported F0 discus etc and see what happens. They'd be dead in no time. Goldfish are hardier than these examples but will still die. I noted you lost fish when you had an ammonia spike. Be honest, it could have been stress and or the poor water quality that killed you fish. I don't know if you've ever tested the water in tanks in LFS or even importers and wholesalers, but you'll find quite a few have low levels of ammonia present due to the very high stocking densities. It's not good, but the fish will survive a level of under 1ppm for a while if they're in reasonable health. It should go without saying that no trace of ammonia, nitrite and _realistically_ nitrate under 5ppm is what we should all aspire to in a freshwater tank. 

MJ


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

I should have stated that for anyone following this thread who's still awake, that exposure to ammonia for any lengh of time will shorten the life of the fish. They're more susceptible to illness etc. And that it needs to be dealt with asap in your tank or you will lose the fish!

In this instance the fish is already sick, possibly caused by poor water quality and so needs to be stressed as little as possible. It's not the norm!


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Tanks go through the nitrogen cycle continuosly Trillian. Unless you mean it's initial cycle?


It is, yes. The OP got given the usual wrong advice from the LFS and his fish are now dying as a result. The same thing happened to me when I set up my first tank but, by doing daily 50% water changes, I kept the ammonia and nitrite levels under control until the tank was cycled. A LOT of stress and hard work though as it took three weeks to sort it out - I wish everyone realized this when they decide NOT to do a fishless cycle by choice. :devil:



> Doing the huge 50% water changes you suggest will dilute the medication.


Fair enough, that is true. But I think that the stress caused by toxic levels of ammonia and/or nitrite will finish the fish often quicker than any disease that's manifested as a result. :hmm:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> But I think that the stress caused by toxic levels of ammonia and/or nitrite will finish the fish often quicker than any disease that's manifested as a result. :hmm:


I think stress will kill far quicker than ammonia or disease. Most fish entering the hobby that die prematurely are killed by stress after all. As the buckets of dead fish netted at wholesalers on a daily basis will testify.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> I think stress will kill far quicker than ammonia or disease. Most fish entering the hobby that die prematurely are killed by stress after all. As the buckets of dead fish netted at wholesalers on a daily basis will testify.


Darwinism in action...:whistling2:

I agree with that and, under normal circumstances I'd put treating the fish ahead of the water change question but only in a fully cycled tank. When I transfer a sick fish to the quarantine tank, I always consider the first 24-48 hours the most critical to see if it's survived the stress of the transfer. However, in this instance water quality is paramount to helping the fish heal and I just think that the poor thing has compromised health as it is and the elevated nitrogeneus compound levels aren't helping. :hmm:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> Darwinism in action...:whistling2:
> 
> I agree with that and, under normal circumstances I'd put treating the fish ahead of the water change question but only in a fully cycled tank. When I transfer a sick fish to the quarantine tank, I always consider the first 24-48 hours the most critical to see if it's survived the stress of the transfer. However, in this instance water quality is paramount to helping the fish heal and I just think that the poor thing has compromised health as it is and the elevated nitrogeneus compound levels aren't helping. :hmm:


It's survived the initial transfer and for all intents and purposes is in a quarantine / hospital tank. Quite obviously the ammonia ain't helping.

Maybe she should bang a Nitra zorb pad in the filter. Or use Ammo lock. And wait till she has access to mature media. Thats what I'd do..... :whistling2:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Maybe she should bang a Nitra zorb pad in the filter. *Or use Ammo lock*. And wait till she has access to mature media. Thats what I'd do.


I ended up using that when my ammonia level peaked at *8ppm*...:gasp:


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi you are all being really helpful- Thanks. Fish is still alive and active. I still am undecied as to what is wrong with its fine fungus or white spot. I did another 20% water change today. I have some ammoinia lock, have been reluctant to use it as I didn't want to add anymore chemicals. But will if you advise it. I am getting a master test kit tomorrow it the way forward I feel.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

jamjar said:


> I have some ammoinia lock, have been reluctant to use it as I didn't want to add anymore chemicals. But will if you advise it. I am getting a master test kit tomorrow it the way forward I feel.


I'm always amazed that the LFS doesn't advise getting a test kit straight off as it would save an awful lot of heartache in the long run. They must be the only type of business that are immune to basic trading and standards guidelines...:bash:


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> Hi you are all being really helpful- Thanks. Fish is still alive and active. I still am undecied as to what is wrong with its fine fungus or white spot. I did another 20% water change today. I have some ammoinia lock, have been reluctant to use it as I didn't want to add anymore chemicals. But will if you advise it. I am getting a master test kit tomorrow it the way forward I feel.


Everyone should have a test kit.  After all, how can you diagnose a problem without it? 

Read the instructions thoroughly with the ammo lock. It does work, but is really a last resort thing. If you starve your tank by prolonged use you simply starve tthe good bacteria you want in your filter and end up with the tank cycling again and again which is far from ideal. I'd only use it if your levels increase above 0.5 ppm personally.


Post some pictures of the fish. It should be easy enough to diagnose. Use the macro setting on your digital camera if you can.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh my goodness now we are getting technical with photos. I will see what I can do!!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Trillian said:


> I'm always amazed that the LFS doesn't advise getting a test kit straight off as it would save an awful lot of heartache in the long run.


It's not always the LFS at fault. Most do recomend it as they're after an additional sale after all. You'll find it's often the customers who don't spend a few more pounds as they don't see an immediate benefit from spending more of their hard earned. 




Trillian said:


> They must be the only type of business that are immune to basic trading and standards guidelines...:bash:


Don't get me started on estate agents........ :lol2:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

MJ75 said:


> Don't get me started on estate agents...


Oh yes, definitely another one. :devil:


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Hope this works. Flipping fish was so nosey I got loads of face on shots!!
Unfortunatly the pictures don't show the colouration of the fins, they just look like fin rot now, to me.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

ooops so big sorry!


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Finrot. And if it helps, on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the worse for the fishes health) thats a 1.5. You have a good chance of saving it for sure.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok thanks MJ57 you have been great. I will go and get treatments and test kit first thing in the morning.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

MJ57 and others that have helped me. Hi I think we may be winning fins are looking better not right but better. I still have an ammonia problem still at 0.5 but have not been doing daily water changes of 25% due to the treatment. I wonder if you could advise me what to do. If I change the water daily I risk either diluting the medication too much or overdosing. That is why i am just monitoring the ammonia and maybe doing every other day changes then adding medication every 4-5 days. What do you think to this.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

I would say to continue as you are with the 25% water changes and topping up the meds. An ammonia level of 0.5, while not desirable, is a lot better than what it was and hopefully, it will reduce to zero soon...: victory:


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh flipping heck its dead. What am I doing wrong. think we will get rid of new tank, can't cope with anymore trauma.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> Oh flipping heck its dead. What am I doing wrong. think we will get rid of new tank, can't cope with anymore trauma.


Sorry o hear that. Don't give up, remove the medication using carbon, cycle the tank and give it another go.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh I am so fed up worked so hard don't know if the tank will ever be cycled it has been running for 8 weeks now.


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Before these fish die do they show any kind of symptoms / unnatural behaviour? I'm wondering if the water is being contaminated some how. Is anything being sprayed in the room? Kids pouring something in the water? Anything on your hands?


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

_simon_ said:


> Before these fish die do they show any kind of symptoms / unnatural behaviour? I'm wondering if the water is being contaminated some how. Is anything being sprayed in the room? Kids pouring something in the water? Anything on your hands?


This paricular fish had finrot and hd been exposed to ammonia and stress. 

The tank will cycle, just a lile more patience (If you can bear it) and you'll be fine. I's not uncommon for tanks to take many weeks to cycle properly.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

No to your questions, they are in my sons room but he does no spray anything. And he does not put anything in the water. I think it is a cycle problem. My son has said he will give 2 more fish a last go. So I will cycle the tanks without fish then see how we go.


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## jamjar (Sep 9, 2009)

Again MJ57 and others thanks for all your help, will let you know how we get on.


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## MJ75 (Feb 5, 2009)

jamjar said:


> Again MJ57 and others thanks for all your help, will let you know how we get on.


GO on, you've got the tank now.........

PM me your address I'll post you some free coldwatter aquatic plants.


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## liam96 (Jan 12, 2010)

in my tanks i rearly do water changes only when the tank is dirty i normally just set the tank up and then buy my fish the same day ! i never had any problems and dont wash the tank out with soapy water !!!


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

^^^ why post on a really old thread? and to say something like that? all tanks should be cleaned out weekly or at least fortnightly. how would you like to live in a soup of your own poop? you wouldnt leave a hamster in a cage and not clean it out so why do that with your fish? i feel sorry for your fish if you really dont do regular weekly/fortnightly maintenence. 

also, theres a very important issue of cycling a new tank, you should never just set-up a new tank and chuck a load of fish in, and as you said not change the water unless its 'dirty', even crystal clear water will hold a lot of toxins. ammonia and nitrite during cycling can cause irreversible damage to fish and will make them suffer. 

why on earth would anyone use soapy water :gasp: good way to kill fish if you did ever consider it. that remark seems null and void to me.


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