# Inbreeding



## blooray (Sep 30, 2011)

not sure whether should have gone in breeding forum but.... how common is inbreeding? is it common practice to breed to het albino siblings to make albinos for eg or is it always preferable to use a different bloodline if possible. Do a lot of ppl not bother and jus use siblings as its convenient?


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

I'd say its fairly common, especially when working with recessive genes.

It is preferable to use different blood lines but cost and convenience usually over powers the more ethics factor for most people.


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## blooray (Sep 30, 2011)

eightball said:


> I'd say its fairly common, especially when working with recessive genes.
> 
> It is preferable to use different blood lines but cost and convenience usually over powers the more ethics factor for most people.


thanks for the answer. is it possible that a different genetic mutation could lead to the same phenotype? so that although u had two het albinos, the alleles affected were on different loci? and combining them would not lead to any albinos?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

I've heard a lot of people breeding animals from the same clutch because it doesn't occur to them that they're brother and sister - some people just don't think/are stupid!


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

Depends what animal you are talking about mate - Leopard Geckos can be, and are, bred back to each other as a matter of routine - it`s known as `LineBreeding`: without it, we wouldn`t have any of the morphs/colours/genes we have today. It`s a perfectly acceptable practice as reptiles simply do not react to `inbreeding` the same way humans or mammals do - if you think of how some reptiles, in extreme circumstances like being stranded on an island, can reproduce without the need for a male or sperm, then you begin to see how adaptable they are: one organism can produce both male and female with 100% identical DNA, that are then free to breed with each other and expand the populus.

Line/`in` breeding can be done perfectly safely - in regards Leopard Geckos anyway - for upto around 5 generations. At which point, the usual practice is to introduce some totally foreign genes, preferable WC, to keep the gene pool strong and healthy - more as a safeguard than anything else to prevent the genepool becoming stagnant. As said, reptiles are NOT the same as mammals, the don`t suffer from the same physical problems caused by inbreeding, and as a result, don`t have the same natural aversion to doing so in the wild (ie a young adolescent male lion will be excluded from the pride to prevent inbreeding - a natural protection - any reptile, is free to stand it`s ground with no aversion whatsoever to breeding with either parent or sibling).

Hope that helps


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## blooray (Sep 30, 2011)

funky1 said:


> Depends what animal you are talking about mate - Leopard Geckos can be, and are, bred back to each other as a matter of routine - it`s known as `LineBreeding`: without it, we wouldn`t have any of the morphs/colours/genes we have today. It`s a perfectly acceptable practice as reptiles simply do not react to `inbreeding` the same way humans or mammals do - if you think of how some reptiles, in extreme circumstances like being stranded on an island, can reproduce without the need for a male or sperm, then you begin to see how adaptable they are: one organism can produce both male and female with 100% identical DNA, that are then free to breed with each other and expand the populus.
> 
> Line/`in` breeding can be done perfectly safely - in regards Leopard Geckos anyway - for upto around 5 generations. At which point, the usual practice is to introduce some totally foreign genes, preferable WC, to keep the gene pool strong and healthy - more as a safeguard than anything else to prevent the genepool becoming stagnant. As said, reptiles are NOT the same as mammals, the don`t suffer from the same physical problems caused by inbreeding, and as a result, don`t have the same natural aversion to doing so in the wild (ie a young adolescent male lion will be excluded from the pride to prevent inbreeding - a natural protection - any reptile, is free to stand it`s ground with no aversion whatsoever to breeding with either parent or sibling).
> 
> Hope that helps


Thanks for such a thorough answer thats a great help :2thumb:. Interesting bout the lions 2 never knew that!!


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

vgorst said:


> I've heard a lot of people breeding animals from the same clutch because it doesn't occur to them that they're brother and sister - some people just don't think/are stupid!


Whats the problem? Do brother and sister never mate in the wild? 

I cant picture any species of animals where a male for instance was trying to mate with its sister and in which its sister tells it to go away because its her brother, can you?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

eightball said:


> Whats the problem? Do brother and sister never mate in the wild?
> 
> I cant picture any species of animals where a male for instance was trying to mate with its sister and in which its sister tells it to go away because its her brother, can you?


I think it becomes a problem when people do it just because they want to have baby reptiles or do it to make money back. Inbreeding reduces an animals fitness when done over generations, so why breed substandard animals just for your benefit? I understand why some people do it to create and prove out certain morphs.

Yeah...most humans :whistling2: I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the wild, but mammals who care for their young often chase away their offspring when mature. They are thought to do this to prevent inbreeding and to protect their territory.


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

vgorst said:


> I think it becomes a problem when people do it just because they want to have baby reptiles or do it to make money back. Inbreeding reduces an animals fitness when done over generations, so why breed substandard animals just for your benefit? I understand why some people do it to create and prove out certain morphs.
> 
> Yeah...most humans :whistling2: I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the wild, but mammals who care for their young often chase away their offspring when mature. They are thought to do this to prevent inbreeding and to protect their territory.


It was about inbreeding in general in which you answered to and not over generations which gave me in the impression you was saying its very bad in every aspect. Inbreeding over generations and generations is different than inbreeding just once or twice.

By animals I was speaking more of in terms of reptiles/snakes but yeah any animal really, although as you said there are mammals who try to avoid inbreeding, it doesn't mean it NEVER happens with any species though


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Actually my first post suggested that some people don't think about where their animals came from in the first place (maybe the sellers of the babies bred from brother and sister etc too).


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## eightball (Jan 1, 2011)

vgorst said:


> Actually my first post suggested that some people don't think about where their animals came from in the first place (maybe the sellers of the babies bred from brother and sister etc too).





vgorst; said:


> I've heard a lot of people breeding animals from the same clutch because it doesn't occur to them that they're brother and sister - some people just don't think/are stupid!


That post mentions nothing about buyers/sellers (where the snake came from) :hmm:


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

I think you're just being pedantic now, but maybe I didn't make my point very clear - I was basically saying that yes, some people do breed related animals purely because it is convenient for them


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## Mehl (Jul 27, 2012)

I have been told by the breeders i normally do business with that inbreeding is not really a problem when dealing with snakes. As they also act this way in the wild. Snakes rarely travel long distances from their birth grounds in the wild, and therefore bredes with their siblings, cousins etc.
Only thing would be the super motley, super fire thing to consider, but i think thats been covered ;-)


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