# Colchester Timber wolves



## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

So some of you may have heard, some not. Five Timber wolves escaped from Colchester zoo today, one returned to its enclosure, one was tranquilized, and 3 were shot dead, even though they could have tranquilized them too (but didn't try). It thought it was unnecessary.
Here's the article for those interested BBC News - On-the-run Colchester Zoo wolf shot dead


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

I read that and was surprised and saddened that some had been shot dead. I can only think it was thought justified... t darts are hard to aim at distance, and maybe they could get close enough.


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

Genseric said:


> I read that and was surprised and saddened that some had been shot dead. I can only think it was thought justified... t darts are hard to aim at distance, and maybe they could get close enough.


I was expecting to read that the three shot dead had attacked someone or another animal, but they didn't. I want to think they had to be shot for a reason, it's how quick they were to opt for killing them without even trying to save them, that annoys me.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Can you imagine the headlines if they had attacked someone, or a pet? Unfortunately in this situation the zoo had very little option. It would not have been taken lightly.


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

colinm said:


> Can you imagine the headlines if they had attacked someone, or a pet? Unfortunately in this situation the zoo had very little option. It would not have been taken lightly.


Yes that is very true. On another note I have found out that this is not the first escape from that zoo this year. A red river boar escaped in august. This zoo has either the weakest enclosure fencing or these animals have been deliberately released.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

From the outside it would seem that way but I worked at a zoo thirty years ago and animals sometimes do the most unexpected things to escape. Then there is always the chance of human error.


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

colinm said:


> From the outside it would seem that way but I worked at a zoo thirty years ago and animals sometimes do the most unexpected things to escape. Then there is always the chance of human error.


Again yes, that is the more likely possibility. It's just that 2 escapees in a year strikes me as suspicious, you know? Maybe you don't and perhaps I'm a little :crazy: haha.


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## penfold (Sep 9, 2007)

I go to Colchester zoo at least twice a year probably my favourite zoo in the country I can't believe they would of shot the wolves without a lot of thought and there enclosure always looked rather secure so just a tragic set of circumstances but I think was the right thing to do such a shame


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## abandonallhope (Jun 19, 2009)

Tranq darts apparently take up to 15 minutes to kick in and won't always work on an excited animal - totally agree with the decision to shoot to kill the ones that had left park bounds.


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

Don't you think they should have at least tried to save their lives though? Who's to say they would have even attacked anyone or anything. Like the report said they weren't likely to attack unless backed into a corner. I had a look at the immediate area surrounding the zoo on google maps, there doesn't appear to be a single house.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Apparently it was the keepers themselves that were given the order to shoot, I'm pretty sure if there were any other way, the keepers would of refused. I know I would of. You've got to remember that although these animals are not tame by any means, they are used to humans being around, and that makes them even more dangerous. As a species, they're quite timid, but if they are used to having humans around there's no telling how they would of reacted I guess. As above though, darts would probably not have affected them in such an agitated state, it's a horrible thing to happen, but it does happen and sometimes there's just nothing that can be done. The safety of the people at the zoo and immediate area will always come before the lives of the animals.


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm just shocked the enclosure parimeters were not checked prior to letting the animals out, checks on enclosures should always be carried out before putting animals in them!!!


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## james dean (Jan 10, 2011)

x Sarah x said:


> I'm just shocked the enclosure parameters were not checked prior to letting the animals out, checks on enclosures should always be carried out before putting animals in them!!!


Colchester is my local zoo, according to the web site the enclosure was checked every morning, the thing that concerned me was not the escape from the enclosure, but th escape from the zoo grounds. as far as I know no reason has yet been given, but something must have attracted them through the fence in my opinion, possibly a deer.

Also Colchester town isn't far from the zoo and there are lots of houses and a pub with a beer garden just over the zoo fence, and dotted around the approach to the zoo from the Maldon road. 

It is all very sad, but as some one else stated, the tranquilizers don't always work on a stressed animal.

The red river hog never left the enclosure it made it's way through into the keeper side of the set up. personally i don't count that as an "escape" any more than if a budgie flies around the hall way rather than the living room, if it gets out of the window then it's escaped.


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## WinnieeMvP (Feb 4, 2013)

Payne said:


> Don't you think they should have at least tried to save their lives though? Who's to say they would have even attacked anyone or anything. Like the report said they weren't likely to attack unless backed into a corner. I had a look at the immediate area surrounding the zoo on google maps, there doesn't appear to be a single house.


Im pretty sure you'd have a different opinion if you lived in one of the local houses and your children were out playing on the street with there new bikes they got for xmas.

These are wild animals and the zoo isn't going to allow for any casualties that they would be liable for.

Get in the real world, we are the top of the food chain. They would attack us if we were in there land so we should be doing the same of means allow. 

I think they did the right thing this could have been a lot worse.


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

WinnieeMvP said:


> Im pretty sure you'd have a different opinion if you lived in one of the local houses and your children were out playing on the street with there new bikes they got for xmas.
> 
> These are wild animals and the zoo isn't going to allow for any casualties that they would be liable for.
> 
> ...


I think you missed my point, but it doesn't matter. I realised I was the only who gave a toss last month.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Payne said:


> I think you missed my point, but it doesn't matter. I realised I was the only who gave a toss last month.


It's not a matter of giving a toss.....it's upsetting news for everyone. But anyone with half a brain can see they took the only course of action that was open to them!


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

If they could shoot and kill them then they could have swapped the bullets for tranqs. People just love killing things though dont they...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Harbinger said:


> If they could shoot and kill them then they could have swapped the bullets for tranqs. People just love killing things though dont they...


What a stupid thing to say!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I wish I lived in this 'Disney world' that everyone else seems to... everything is so black and white and doesn't actually need to consider the consequences of anything

Where do I sign up?


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Is it not part of the dwa laws that after a period they have to be killed for public safety.?


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> What a stupid thing to say!


Huh, so hunting for sport doesnt exist then, k.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

How is that relevant to the story? They weren't hunted they were culled before they attacked someone or bolted off never to be seen again...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Harbinger said:


> Huh, so hunting for sport doesnt exist then, k.


Are you seriously suggesting the zoo keepers killed their own wolves for sport? You effing numpty!

Tranquillisers take about 15 mins to work, if they work at all. In the meantime, what's the wolf doing? Running around scared, possibly killing a child that gets in it's way. What else could they do? 

You must live in cloud cuckoo land if you think they could have done anything else!

If you had a pet tiger in your garden, you also need a gun on standby, and be ready to shoot your own pet if need be.

It seems that a little common sense is lacking around here right now!:whistling2:


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

Lol i didnt mean the zoo's geez.
Just seems like a lot of fear mongering, not sure a wolf could manage to wipe out all the toddlers in the county in 15 minutes.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Harbinger said:


> Lol i didnt mean the zoo's geez.
> Just seems like a lot of fear mongering, not sure a wolf could manage to wipe out all the toddlers in the county in 15 minutes.


Another perfectly stupid idiotic and insensitive thing to say!

Once is careless, twice is brainless!


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

Harbinger said:


> Lol i didnt mean the zoo's geez.
> Just seems like a lot of fear mongering, not sure a wolf could manage to wipe out all the toddlers in the county in 15 minutes.


There is always a lot of fear mongering when any animal escapes a zoo .....most of it from local press BUT 

Old saying is better safe than sorry .... So they had to be shot ....simples really


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Fear mongering _with good reason!!!_

Wolves aren't cuddly little puppies, you know!


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Fear mongering _with good reason!!!_
> 
> Wolves aren't cuddly little puppies, you know!


Hmmmmm not really the chances are the wolves would have been just as scared as the people and would have made for the hills not started planning the hunt ...


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

Drayvan said:


> I wish I lived in this 'Disney world' that everyone else seems to... everything is so black and white and doesn't actually need to consider the consequences of anything
> 
> Where do I sign up?


:lol2: Exactly why i hardly ever go on this forum anymore!

People are so quick to jump to conclusions with these kind of matters.. and like you say everything seems so black and white..not a single thought into how the keepers probably felt, who spend day in and day out with these animals who probably have a real bond with them too..yeah of course they must have just shot them.. im sure they wouldnt have thought to use tranquilisers..:whistling2:
:lol2::no1:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok, so you've never worked with wolves in a zoo before! They are not kept tame, and have lost their fear of humans.....really quite dangerous!


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

varanus87 said:


> Hmmmmm not really the chances are the wolves would have been just as scared as the people and would have made for the hills not started planning the hunt ...



What would happen if the young couple walking their dog out in the hills came across their path.. or their own dog came into confrontation ?

unfortunately.. given the circumstances the zoo had to make that vital decision, imagine if someone did get hurt by one of the wolves.. imagine the uproar then.


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Ok, so you've never worked with wolves in a zoo before! They are not kept tame, and have lost their fear of humans.....really quite dangerous!


:lol2: how contradictory they is they are not kept tame yet are not fearful of humans .... :lol2:


I have worked with wolves actually mrcriss and the chances of the wolves busting straight out and going on a hunt is so low ... Not saying it wouldn't happen but the chances are they would try and run away from all civilisation .....

In a unfamiliar setting they would have been terrified and fled not gone hunting as soon as see some1 ... It's not red riding hood :whistling2:


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

VdubS said:


> What would happen if the young couple walking their dog out in the hills came across their path.. or their own dog came into confrontation ?
> 
> unfortunately.. given the circumstances the zoo had to make that vital decision, imagine if someone did get hurt by one of the wolves.. imagine the uproar then.


No no I completely agree they had to make that call and fully understand they did the right thing All I'm saying is the media hypes it up to be the next apocalypse of wolves rather than what it was ...

Yes indeed confronted while walking your dog would b sketchy but it didn't come to that .... I'm saying that apon breaking out they would not that second gone hunting small children


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## VdubS (Jul 15, 2007)

varanus87 said:


> No no I completely agree they had to make that call and fully understand they did the right thing All I'm saying is the media hypes it up to be the next apocalypse of wolves rather than what it was ...
> 
> Yes indeed confronted while walking your dog would b sketchy but it didn't come to that .... I'm saying that apon breaking out they would not that second gone hunting small children


I agree.. same old story with the media isnt it! 50foot man eating snake escapes from residential property threatening the lives of thousands of brits etc etc:lol2:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

VdubS said:


> :lol2: Exactly why i hardly ever go on this forum anymore!
> 
> People are so quick to jump to conclusions with these kind of matters.. and like you say everything seems so black and white..not a single thought into how the keepers probably felt, who spend day in and day out with these animals who probably have a real bond with them too..yeah of course they must have just shot them.. im sure they wouldnt have thought to use tranquilisers..:whistling2:
> :lol2::no1:


I bet if they weren't shot, and they attacked someone the same people would be asking why they were allowed to get so far. As you say, those wolves had names, their keepers saw them every day...to the keepers they were 'their' animals, I bet they were devastated, and still are, and will be for a very long time to come. People forget that they aren't dogs, they're not even tame, they're humanised and that makes them dangerous, they know that humans bring food... not an animal you want on the loose. On top of that, there's always the chance that some member of the public will want to play the hero, try to corner the wolf, or lure it somewhere so they can get there 15 minutes of fame...


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

VdubS said:


> I agree.. same old story with the media isnt it! 50foot man eating snake escapes from residential property threatening the lives of thousands of brits etc etc:lol2:


My point exactly ...: victory:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

varanus87 said:


> :lol2: how contradictory they is they are not kept tame yet are not fearful of humans .... :lol2:
> 
> 
> I have worked with wolves actually mrcriss and the chances of the wolves busting straight out and going on a hunt is so low ... Not saying it wouldn't happen but the chances are they would try and run away from all civilisation .....
> ...


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> varanus87 said:
> 
> 
> > :lol2: how contradictory they is they are not kept tame yet are not fearful of humans .... :lol2:
> ...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

varanus87 said:


> mrcriss said:
> 
> 
> > The chances is and with all animals ... Apart from great apes is that they recognise uniform ... This is how they distinguish between keeper ie food bringer and stranger ... Now if you have worked with wolves how do they react around strangers .... Not the same confident animal they are around a keeper ....
> ...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

You'd be surprised how many zoo animals recognise different people, regardless of uniform


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> varanus87 said:
> 
> 
> > Balls! My dog recognises a whole load of different people by their faces and their voices....no matter what flamin' clothes they're wearing! Not too much of a stretch to assume that something as intelligent as a wolf can manage the same feat!
> ...


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

varanus87 said:


> mrcriss said:
> 
> 
> > Your dog isn't a wolf and isn't exposed to the same treatment as a wolf .... Like you said they are not tame ... Like a dog
> ...


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## Payne (Sep 8, 2013)

Why is this still even a discussion? As I said before all that needed to be said was said, a month ago. This is just a situation where neither side will be swayed so let's just drop it here.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Payne said:


> Why is this still even a discussion? As I said before all that needed to be said was said, a month ago. This is just a situation where neither side will be swayed so let's just drop it here.


.......because you made a rather silly (and definitely untrue) statement about being the only person who "gives a toss" about the animals!:bash:


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## varanus87 (Jan 30, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> .......because you made a rather silly (and definitely untrue) statement about being the only person who "gives a toss" about the animals!:bash:


Here here ....^^ 

Just to clarify I do give a toss about the animals also ...


It's called a debate and a discussion Payne ....: victory: forum and all that jazz


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Thought I'd say, as I've worked in a zoo before, most animals recognise keepers, many recognise regular visitors too, you see a tiger react differently to joe bloggs who came for the first time today and nice mrs jones who comes every wednesday, regardless of food. 
Having said that, they have quite happily killed keepers who wander into the wrong place, a woman, who was a regular keeper and known to the animal, was killed by a tiger only a few months ago. 
Lots of factors in it and a released or escaped animal would be under stress and thus very unpredictable.
On the side of the shooting, it is a condition of the zoo licence that if the animals leave zoo grounds then it's shoot to kill. If zoo licence is breached (as in if they did not shoot the animals) then the zoo licence is removed, all animals held which need licences are then instantly moved or euthanised. A lot more animals would be dead now if they had not taken the action they did. 
I wish it wasn't the case, but they had no choice.


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## Harbinger (Dec 20, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> Not saying they would hunt, but would defend themselves vigorously if confronted or cornered!


Must be some bad ass toddlers to corner a couple of wolves.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Harbinger said:


> Must be some bad ass toddlers to corner a couple of wolves.


Not necessarily. A woman was gored to death by a deer the other week, because it was in her garden and she surprised it.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

mrcriss said:


> Not necessarily. A woman was gored to death by a deer the other week, because it was in her garden and she surprised it.


*EDIT: Sorry, apparently she didn't die, but is probably paralysed. Same difference though….the most innocuous of animals can easily do some serious damage when startled or stressed.


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