# Very Disturbing Indeed!!



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

This is quite alarming when you think of the possibilities:

Coalition seeks legislation to permit political campaigning - Third Sector

A coalition of voluntary organisations is lobbying for an amendment to charity law that would explicitly allow registered charities to dedicate all their resources to political campaigning.

This would cover campaigning to change the law or government policy in furtherance of charitable objectives, but would not alter the bans on political organisations becoming charities and charities providing across-the-board support for political parties.

The group wants the measure to be included in the constitutional reform bill expected in the Queen's Speech on 6 November. It will be meeting Ed Miliband, Minister for the Cabinet Office, and lobbying for the bill to be used to amend the Charities Act 2006 so political campaigning is allowed under the public benefit test.

Rules on political campaigning are currently set out by the Charity Commission in its guidance document CC9, which is based on case law. It says political campaigning must not become a "dominant" activity and must "remain incidental or ancillary to the charity's purposes".

The commission is revising the guidance after pressure from charities, the Advisory Group on Campaigning and the Voluntary Sector, chaired by Baroness Helena Kennedy QC, and the Government (Third Sector, 26 September).

In July's Third Sector Review, the Government said it saw no objection to charities pursuing their purposes wholly or mainly through political activities, provided those purposes were demonstrably charitable.

At a meeting of the regulator's board on 26 September, the commissioners agreed to drop the "dominant/ancillary" rule. But the coalition, which is made up of organisations that contributed to the advisory group, including environmental charity People and Planet, the umbrella bodies Acevo and the NCVO, and Oxfam, argues that the move does not go far enough.

Rosamund McCarthy, a partner at law firm Bates Wells and Braithwaite and a coalition member, said: "We always said piecemeal reform wasn't enough - we want a statutory clarification. Some of the case law on campaigning dates back to 1947. Society has moved on.

"The amendment would have to be drafted very carefully so it doesn't have any unintended consequences. But we feel that if charities can engage 100 per cent in service delivery, they should also be able to engage 100 per cent in campaigning."

Greg Clark, the Conservatives' charities spokesman, said the amendment would be a mistake. He said: "This will have a detrimental effect on public trust in charities and could open the door to political parties becoming registered charities."

McCarthy said: "Charities should not become party political, and the amendment would guard against that. Donors are more sophisticated: if they disapprove of what a charity does, they will stop giving to it."

Think about what this really means eh?

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Holy shit !!!!


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

:/


I really don't know what to say...

If that happens they may as well cease being a charity and be a political party.

Mason


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It does however mean that animal charities like Proteus can also become political.

Just makes you glad that organisations like Animal Aid and PETA are not charities... but you can bet your life they would soon become one.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*but............*

...............it could spell the end for the keeping side if things!

Perhaps l am too pessimistic?
R


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## leptophis (May 24, 2007)

oh please get a grip


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Well l will say lol*

But just remember, that the likes of the RSPCA do have an incredible fund/s.

We do not.

That also legal aid is slowly being abolished.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/09_10_07_pbr_report.pdf

"Reform of legal aid will also deliver annual net cash-releasing savings
of £193 million by 2010-11."

That's 10%. They are literally decimating the legal aid system.

Therefore help for keepers whom may find themselves under prosecution from a much heavily funded potential political charity, could well be problematic.

So that could mean that genuine keepers may come under a barrage, and lest us not forget it was only 9 years ago that the charities commission warned the RSPCA that they were becoming far too political. It would not take long for them to rally this thought again.

But okay then, l will say lol, the likes of the RSPCA will not get political.

Happier?

R
PKL


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Why is it that the only time you post it is to try and whip people into a frenzy about some legislation or other?

The first post doesn't really say anything about anything. You may well have people behind you on the RSPCA thing (warranted or not) but please don't try and make a name for yourself by scaremongering among the herping community.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Hey mate, you are in the hobby and issues section.
This is certainely an issue...
would you not agree?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

It is not scaremongering if there is genuinely something to be concerned about. If the RSPCA is ALLOWED to be openly political, it means that more laws can be introduced restricting the ability to keep animals they do not believe make good pets.

Know what kind of animals they don't think make good pets?

Anything that lives in a cage.

Yes, that includes my snakes and lizards, the next door neighbour's rats, granny's budgies.... all of them.

Quite frankly, this scares the living snot out of me. The RSPCA - which DOES have Animal Aid members on its staff (and Animal Aid is the kind of group that supports digging up people's dead grandparents to make a point) does NOT have the best interests of pet keepers in mind.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2007)

I would say that its somthing that i did not know until it was posted here cheers..
maybe people need to read into it a little further and not assume its simple scare mongering,but more like information that needs to be read by all of us 

this could be bad news for all of us !!


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

SteveL said:


> I would say that its somthing that i did not know until it was posted here cheers..
> maybe people need to read into it a little further and not assume its simple scare mongering,but more like information that needs to be read by all of us
> 
> this could be bad news for all of us !!


Please don't belittle me by suggesting that I don't keep an eye on what is going on, but to shout 'ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT' every time there is a sniff of potential, possible, as long as it gets through everyone legislation IS scaremongering. As far as I'm concerned, if they ban herping I'll go to jail. F*ck em


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Or.. we could NOT wait untill it happens..and then go to jail...
Instead we could discuss it here, be aware of it and just possibly, possibly do something about it.
By all Means hang out of the back and think its a load of bollox, but don't dissrupt the rest of the class :naughty:


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## 955i (Aug 17, 2007)

Not disrupting the class, but do wonder howcome when I walk down the high street I get accosted by RSPCA, Wildlife Trust, Animal Aid, but I have never seen any of the people Rory is supposedly recruiting to the cause.

Now I have been a herper for 30+ years, but I am not going to meekly go along with someones hype on a forum any more than I go along with TV ads.

Surely if a difference was to be made then its better to be out there converting the people who disagree rather than wasting time preaching to the choir.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Scaremongering*

I do not deliberately try to scaremonger as you call it.

And it would be absolutely marvelous if everyday l could create a post that was full of good news.

Sadly the way things are shaping up, it is not always good news.

It is not about making a name for myself, many of you may think that, and quite simply its not anything to do with it.

I am not a herper, l am learning about it.

I am concerned about the state of the hobby/ies.

I am concerned about the shape of the industry.

All l am trying to do is open up your eyes to potential problems that lay outside our perimetres.

But alright - good news.

October 1st, and the DWAL changes promised after years of waiting came true. So now everybody who wanted one of those species can go and get one, how about that?

Are there any problems with that?

Well yes there are, but l will not scaremonger, l will shut up.

Bad news time.

These two pieces of information are relevant to each other and could very well spell a major problem for all keepers, not just herpers.

I will leave it at that.

PKL


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2007)

Frogeye 1050 said:


> Please don't belittle me by suggesting that I don't keep an eye on what is going on, but to shout 'ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT' every time there is a sniff of potential, possible, as long as it gets through everyone legislation IS scaremongering. As far as I'm concerned, if they ban herping I'll go to jail. F*ck em


UH !!!


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

So your happy to sit back, let others try to impose laws to stop you from doing something you have done quite legally for over 30 years, then go to prison cos you dont agree and intend to carry on doing it.

Well I am not

nor or many others

You dont see pro keepers on the street cos we aint got £217 million and a dodgy charity status. 

You dont hear to much off line as we are not in the headline business of digging up bodies and criminal damage

We ARE open, tell it as it is, inform people so they can make up thier own minds

We dont use fluffy bunnies and cute cats to hoodwink the public into donating when only 10p in every £2.50 goes to the cause , the rest to funding underhanded political lobbying.

But hey, its a free world, isnt it?????????


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

And lets take into consideration that these charities have the ear of the press.. whereas we do not, nor do we have the money and proper centralisation. This is the only way to let the herp keepers spread out all over the UK to know what is happening.. it isn't as if _they_ would ask us our opinions or advice.


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Frogeye 1050 said:


> Not disrupting the class, but do wonder howcome when I walk down the high street I get accosted by RSPCA, Wildlife Trust, Animal Aid, but I have never seen any of the people Rory is supposedly recruiting to the cause.


Oh, but you do see them - you're talking to them right now... And we're talking to others all day, every day... It's slow, because most of us are new to this and we haven't got the £££ behind us that the RSPCA and the like have to make us louder!
We are trying though, and we're doing it for ourselves and those, like yourself, that think that nothing is going to happen. 



Frogeye 1050 said:


> Now I have been a herper for 30+ years, but I am not going to meekly go along with someones hype on a forum any more than I go along with TV ads.


What about the people that were happy smokers for 30+ years? Did they think it would happen to them? No. Did it? Yes.
They're not allowed to smoke in the pub, clubs, shopping centres, or even close to buildings... And now they can be fined for having a *** in the car too. Talk about spoiling all the fun!
(no, I'm not a smoker!)

I'm not so stupid to think 'it'll never happen' because if I do that, then when they do it, I can't complain - because I did nothing at all to try to stop it.

It's up to you however, feel free to not believe 'the hype' but don't complain when it happens to you.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Pkl*

You see Frogeye, 

The reason you do not see PKL members out on the street is that PKL is only 179 strong. But as Ally has correctly pointed out, we are active, just not to the street market - but the internet market.

Currently activating them now, for positions of research and the such like.
Organizing the teams, so that we can concentrate on the various topics and campaigns ahead of us.

Most of the people - fellow keepers them all -whom have responded to you are PKL.

Why do we preach to the choir? Simple, because we are trying to build a much bigger choir, and we are currently appealing to our audience for volunteers.

You have to start somewhere Frogeye, simple.

F*ck them you say - you'll go to jail. 

I think that is quite possibly the most absurd statement l have heard from a herper to date.

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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