# An amazing experience



## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

_Hiya,_

_Well today I went to the reptile shop and had an amazing time_

_I wasn't going to go at first because I'm really nervous of traveling alone, especially to somewhere I don't really know and really didn't fancy the 2hour each way journey to get there but I'm so glad I kicked myself to go_

_He showed me the basics of hooking and let me practice on a corn, royal, snappy grey rat and then a VBB just so he could see how I used a couple of different hooks with different animals but he seemed quite happy and he asked about what experience I had before _

_Then he hooked out a feisty adult female FWC, talked me through various tips about hooking and the snakes body langage before asking me if I'd want to have ago at putting her into a RUB, _
_So I did and it was most likely the hardest thing I have tried to do :lol2: _
_She kept coming back out before I could get the lid on when I got her in but after about 8 tries and some help I managed it_

_He then showed me some of the venomous they keep there was a cobra (can't remember what species) Gaboon, WDB, eyelash viper and a pygmy rattler, he hooked out the WDB but I didn't fancy having ago at hooking it because it was much larger than I expected :blush: but it was amazing to watch_
_After that he got out the pygmy rattler and I felt more comfortable having ago at hooking her out of a RUB and back in to her viv although my heart was racing like mad and I was sweating buckets :blush:_

_I then got to help out feeding them other than the cobra, the only ones I fed was the pygmy and the eyelash I didn't feel comfortable feeding the others but wow Gaboons can strike fast when they want to_

_But I'm in love with the pygmy rattler :flrt:_

_So all in all I've had an amazing day, I'm so, so, soooo greatful to the reptile shop for letting me have this amazing experience and he said I am welcome to go back anytime if I let them know in advance so next weekend I'm planning to visit again and I'm really looking forward to it_

_Sorry for the long post just sooo happy :no1:_

_I'll take my camera next time to get some piccies _


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

Maaan that is very awesome  It's good to see someone being so proactive towards reaching their goal.

How do you feel after it all? Has it motivated you even more to one day keep venomous?


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

callum b said:


> Maaan that is very awesome  It's good to see someone being so proactive towards reaching their goal.
> 
> How do you feel after it all? Has it motivated you even more to one day keep venomous?


_Justs feels like I've achieved something I have been wanting to do, its nice to have my heart rate back to normal :blush: and I'm not sure to be honest but its opened my eyes up a lot more realistically to the dangers _

_I'm totally in love with pygmys though :flrt:_


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## VespulaVulgaris (Nov 4, 2011)

Sounds like you had a great time. I love Pygmy rattlers. See them all the time when I'm in Southern Florida. Toxic little worms


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

This is great Emmie, which pet shop was it? I am very surprised they were so happy to let anyone of your age near their hots, let alone feed them! :gasp:

Its safe to say you cant understand a fast strike until you see a hot feeding :flrt:


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

That's awesome!

You looking to go into hots then? Or just want the experience?


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

chondro13 said:


> This is great Emmie, which pet shop was it? I am very surprised they were so happy to let anyone of your age near their hots, let alone feed them! :gasp:
> 
> Its safe to say you cant understand a fast strike until you see a hot feeding :flrt:


_The reptile shop has asked me not to say:blush: _
_Apparently they could get in to trouble because I'm not 18 yet_

_I have to say the Gaboon suprised me with how quick it can strike with little warning and the WDB suprised me with how large it was but they all was amazing_



nsn89 said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> You looking to go into hots then? Or just want the experience?


_Just want the experience at the moment because I won't be in the position to keep them for a good few years yet _


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

_emmie_x_ said:


> _The reptile shop has asked me not to say:blush: _
> _Apparently they could get in to trouble because I'm not 18 yet_
> 
> _I have to say the Gaboon suprised me with how quick it can strike with little warning and the WDB suprised me with how large it was but they all was amazing_
> ...


Ah cool, all sounds exciting!


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## firece_creatures (May 28, 2008)

Another shop not playing by the rules and putting our hobby and reptiles shops at risk no wonder it didnt want to be named

Letting under 18's have anything to do with hots is not cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People this is not a game these animals can kill .. simple .. have some common sense and stop [email protected]@ing around !!


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## VespulaVulgaris (Nov 4, 2011)

firece_creatures said:


> Another shop not playing by the rules and putting our hobby and reptiles shops at risk no wonder it didnt want to be named
> 
> Letting under 18's have anything to do with hots is not cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> People this is not a game these animals can kill .. simple .. have some common sense and stop [email protected]@ing around !!


If you read what she posted, you'll see that nobody was :censor: around. You'll also see that she doesn't think this is a game. 

Nobody is putting the hobby at risk. I wasn't aware of any rules stating that if you are under 18, you aren't allowed to get some experience working with hots. She wanted some experience and she got some experience. End of!


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

VespulaVulgaris said:


> If you read what she posted, you'll see that nobody was :censor: around. You'll also see that she doesn't think this is a game.
> 
> Nobody is putting the hobby at risk. I wasn't aware of any rules stating that if you are under 18, you aren't allowed to get some experience working with hots. She wanted some experience and she got some experience. End of!


They aren't supposed to let anyone go near them if they aren't 18. Insurance issues etc, not to mention you have to be 18 to own one. That's why the shop doesn't want to be named as they'd get in trouble. 

Also it wouldn't reflect well on other shops that keep DWA animals or the private keepers.


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> They aren't supposed to let anyone go near them if they aren't 18. Insurance issues etc, not to mention you have to be 18 to own one. That's why the shop doesn't want to be named as they'd get in trouble.
> 
> Also it wouldn't reflect well on other shops that keep DWA animals or the private keepers.


_I've googled and read the Dangerous wild animals act 1976 but I can't find anything that says its illegal for someone under 18 to handle the animals on the property where the animals are licensed but I could be wrong?_

_It is illegal for someone under 18 to keep animals which are on the DWAA in england and wales I know that much_

_I also had a quick check on exotics direct and looked at the dangerous wild animals public liability insurance but I can't find the terms so I'm not sure what insurance issues it could cause?_

_The only thing I could think of is that, if I got hurt and made a claim an investigation would happen which could lead to the shop losing the license? again I could be completely wrong_


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

_emmie_x_ said:


> _I've googled and read the Dangerous wild animals act 1976 but I can't find anything that says its illegal for someone under 18 to handle the animals on the property where the animals are licensed but I could be wrong?_
> 
> _It is illegal for someone under 18 to keep animals which are on the DWAA in england and wales I know that much_
> 
> ...


I think it's to do with if you have a PSL. But I'm sure someone will confirm this tomorrow.


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

nsn89 said:


> I think it's to do with if you have a PSL. But I'm sure someone will confirm this tomorrow.


_I've also read the pet animals act 1951 again it doesn't mention anything about it being illegal plus the PSL would have to follow the dangerous wild animals act if they keep them I think?_


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

As far as I am aware, there are no laws regarding under 18's and handling hots - however you have to be over 18 to own them, and have insurance in order to be granted the licence. Im pretty sure there will be a clause in the insurance regarding non related under 18 year olds being involved. 

It really is unethical and frankly foolish for a shop to let anyone under the age of 18 actually work with the hots. (A private keeper may be another story)

Emmie - i know you are extremely mature for your age and you are no fool, but understand - if you got tagged, the shop would almost certainly lose their licence and the story would be splashed across the front of every newspaper there is.. thus be detrimental to the hobby. 

I too had underage experience with hots thanks to someone who understood I was of the right mindset - like yourself. But I think it would be advisable for you not to publicise any experiences you have from now on. Just my 2p : victory:


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

I checked out our professional insurances and there is nothing in ours to exclude training to any age.

However it is (IMHO) sensible to restrict to over 18 only.

Imagine the fun the tabloid press would have with video of a young person interacting with a venomous snake!

As regards a bite lets not even go there.

But its unlikely that any law has been broken


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

chondro13 said:


> As far as I am aware, there are no laws regarding under 18's and handling hots - however you have to be over 18 to own them, and have insurance in order to be granted the licence. Im pretty sure there will be a clause in the insurance regarding non related under 18 year olds being involved.
> 
> It really is unethical and frankly foolish for a shop to let anyone under the age of 18 actually work with the hots. (A private keeper may be another story)
> 
> ...





slippery42 said:


> I checked out our professional insurances and there is nothing in ours to exclude training to any age.
> 
> However it is (IMHO) sensible to restrict to over 18 only.
> 
> ...


 
_Thanks for your inputs _

_Like chondro13 said I'm not going to post any of my experiences, I thought it was risky posting it in the first place I don't think I fully thought it through because I was just so happy about the experience :blush: _
_But I won't go to anymore until I am 18 because I don't want to potentially put anyone in danger of anything_


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## firece_creatures (May 28, 2008)

_emmie_x_ said:


> _Thanks for your inputs _
> 
> _Like chondro13 said I'm not going to post any of my experiences, I thought it was risky posting it in the first place I don't think I fully thought it through because I was just so happy about the experience :blush: _
> _But I won't go to anymore until I am 18 because I don't want to potentially put anyone in danger of anything_


Emmie dont get me wrong im glad you have a interest in dwa and hopefully want to keep them (as they are amazing creatures to work with and keep)
And im also glad that it went well and you enjoyed it

Its not a pop at you but a dig at the shop

I have spoken to many a councils regarding licences in my time and what needs to be in place to have dwa at shops and they normally dont have a clue but the one thing all of them have said is not to have them out when the public are in the shop and not to let anyone under 18 deal with these animals (I know you can go on little courses but paperwork has to be signed)

i have even had colleges stop people coming to help me with other non dwa animals to learn about them but the min i mention ive got dwa they say if under 18 they are not allowed

I dont know about private dwa keepers as i guessing it would be on their own heads if someone got tagged

but like i said i think it is wrong for under 18s to help or hook dwa ... not many animals in the world are going to get you ready for them. And there are not many under 18's with mangroves, indigos, kingrats etc in their collections

Stay safe (its more important)


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## maybrick (May 20, 2005)

That sounds both cool and scary. 

Its been a year or perhaps two since I visited, but I think Aztec reptiles in Gloucester have some nice venemous.

I'm not suggesting that Aztec is this shop.

Nope.

I seem to remember their Pygmy rattler, and they had a venemoid Gabby.

But thats a different argument, and it was a few years ago.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

maybrick said:


> That sounds both cool and scary.
> 
> Its been a year or perhaps two since I visited, but I think Aztec reptiles in Gloucester have some nice venemous.
> 
> ...


Wow can't believe anyone would actually want to keep a venomoid. It's horrible.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ive never heard such a pile of donkey shi:censor: in my whole life fair enough the girls under 18 but stever irwin had a pet king brown snake and austin stevens had tens of venomous snakes in his bedroom when he was a child and both are ten times the herps of any of us on here. just because our anal nanny state government decide to put a stamp on something yet again means nothing i say go enjoy urself emmie u seem to be responsible enough to know wat ur doing and im sure the shop were keeping a close eye on u. god ive seen adults on here that should not be allowed near hots and wat really bugs me is any of the kids near me can go in the field behind the houses and go find an adder to play with un supervised or did our nanny state government forget we have a native potentially deadly snake grrrr sorry guys rant over this :censor: just grinds my gears age is just a number its character that dictates how responsible u are


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## firece_creatures (May 28, 2008)

mikeyb said:


> ive never heard such a pile of donkey shi:censor: in my whole life fair enough the girls under 18 but stever irwin had a pet king brown snake and austin stevens had tens of venomous snakes in his bedroom when he was a child and both are ten times the herps of any of us on here. just because our anal nanny state government decide to put a stamp on something yet again means nothing i say go enjoy urself emmie u seem to be responsible enough to know wat ur doing and im sure the shop were keeping a close eye on u. god ive seen adults on here that should not be allowed near hots and wat really bugs me is any of the kids near me can go in the field behind the houses and go find an adder to play with un supervised or did our nanny state government forget we have a native potentially deadly snake grrrr sorry guys rant over this :censor: just grinds my gears age is just a number its character that dictates how responsible u are


So in other words your condoning under 18's to have access to DWA 

The rules are there for a very good reason .. so no one gets killed .. that :censor: simple !!

Mikeyb .. i dont know what you keep but i have kept dwa and have done for many many many years. A venomous snake does not give a :censor: if your responsible it will still try to nail you, it dont care if you love it and have looked after it for years .. it will still try to bite you

Like i have said again there are not many KIDS with the kind of stuff which may give you that little bit of practice for dwa. And again no offence to emmie she aint no steve irwin or austin stevens !!!


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

no but if u get bit by say a mamba it dont matter if ur 52 or 15 with no anti venine dead is still dead the point im making is this country seems to belive responsibility comes with age which imo is bull it comes with charachter and education of the known subject. when i was a kid i used to pick up adders all the time i made some really stupid mistakes in some wat the same way probably some of the other well known herpers learnt there trade and in a way i wish id had a excuse the pun mr miyagi figure to teach me the right way i truely belive this is not a bad thing. Why do u think they teach sex education and drugs and not throwing fireworks at such a young age now days because theyve learnt that those people then grow into responsible adults not the type that think its cool once they turn 18 and oooooo im ard cos i got a cobra (sorry about the grammer on ipad)


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## Jay1978 (Sep 1, 2009)

mikeyb said:


> no but if u get bit by say a mamba it dont matter if ur 52 or 15 with no anti venine dead is still dead the point im making is this country seems to belive responsibility comes with age which imo is bull it comes with charachter and education of the known subject. when i was a kid i used to pick up adders all the time i made some really stupid mistakes in some wat the same way probably some of the other well known herpers learnt there trade and in a way i wish id had a excuse the pun mr miyagi figure to teach me the right way i truely belive this is not a bad thing. Why do u think they teach sex education and drugs and not throwing fireworks at such a young age now days because theyve learnt that those people then grow into responsible adults not the type that think its cool once they turn 18 and oooooo im ard cos i got a cobra (sorry about the grammer on ipad)



Whilst I see all sides I kind of agree with this. You can't teach common sense!

Emmie I know you have had a hell of a year hun and I am made up that you had a great time and I know that you are an experienced keeper and see by your post in the regular snake section you are very knowledgeable. But, like someone said could you imagine the press if someone under 18 got tagged buy a hot in this country. They think were a bunch of satanic worshippers at the best of times.

That being said and knowing how well your head is screwed on I would far rather see someone like yourself under 18 working with hots than some of the numpties you hear about wanting to get some without knowing the full implications.

I realise and appreciate your excitement darlin but keep these stories to your friends until your 18 hun. 


Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

I can see that venomous keepers don't want anything to happen that has a negative effect on their keeping but it's difficult to see the argument when I come from a country where potentially deadly snakes are commonly encountered and the best handlers/keepers I know all started at a much earlier age than 18.
Emmie seems responsible and appears to understand her limitations, if a keeper feels comfortable giving her access and experience then age shouldn't be a barrier.


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## oscar96 (Nov 7, 2009)

Sorry but I am finding this all very weird you posted a topic around the 09/09/2010 with your small collection it had a couple of young corns. Now everyone is saying your experienced enough to start handling hots??? come on.
Also I think it is very very irresponsible of a shop owner to have even considered letting someone thats not 18 or over to have anything to do with there hots. Ive been working at a shop for over 2 years now and my boss would never let me anywhere near his venomous snakes until im 18.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

thing is this everyone who is kicking off is doing so because we live in the uk if we lived in aus or america or another country where there are alot of native hots no one would blink an eyelid and also i dont feel there would be as much said if emmie had been out and had been picking up wild adders apart from the fact people saying people should leave them alone as there wild


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## fardilis (Mar 22, 2011)

if it was illegal or irresponsible for peopel under 18 to be abe to be shown hot's why is it that places like the king cobra sanctuary, corcodiles of word, ans mutiple zoo's allow children to have there picture taken with a cobra around there neck or holding a croc? and then post the pics onine.

i can understand the shop not wanting people to know as a lot of you are clearly against it. i just think that as long as there certain the person isn't in any danger they can show them a *potentially* dangerous snake.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Maybe the shop owner didnt want every teenager in town asking for a turn, so asked not to be named.


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

oscar96 said:


> Sorry but I am finding this all very weird you posted a topic around the 09/09/2010 with your small collection it had a couple of young corns. Now everyone is saying your experienced enough to start handling hots??? come on.
> Also I think it is very very irresponsible of a shop owner to have even considered letting someone thats not 18 or over to have anything to do with there hots. Ive been working at a shop for over 2 years now and my boss would never let me anywhere near his venomous snakes until im 18.



No amount of corns or pythons is going to give someone the experience to start handling hots, if you don't understand this after 2 years in a shop then I understand why the owner wouldn't feel comfortable letting you deal with the hots whether 12 0r 18+


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

Er isnt this the idea of wat mentoring is someone having someone there to show them how to deal with a hot not jumping in the deep end themselves on there own ??


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

I've been following this thread, but have no idea where I stand on it.

I agree that age isn't a reliable way to determine someone’s maturity. As others have said; many adults are far less mature. I'm also happy that she did it the right way by finding a mentor, and not just gone out Austin Stevens-style adder hunting.

However, venomous snakes are not toys, and even a tiny mistake can result in serious injury, or death. If there were an accident, what sort of press would reptile keepers (esp the shops) be subjected to? How would the OP’s family have reacted? Legal action? 

The fact that the OP had little/no experience with hooks is what I find most troubling. If you're going to mentor someone, it's essential that they know how to use a hook. Practicing with a few corns is pointless. Venomous snakes behave totally different, and hooking them is nothing like hooking a placid species. If a rattler falls off a hook, you can't just pick it up like you would a corn snake. With a venomous snake, you need to know what you AND the snake will do if this happens. 

Also, letting someone with zero experience feed a dwa is reckless. It doesn’t matter how old they are, or how long they've been keeping. The op mentions she was shocked at their speed. Personally, I think that knowing how fast, how far, and in what direction the snake is capable of striking, is VERY important. If you're still shocked about these things, then you're not ready to feed one.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> Er isnt this the idea of wat mentoring is someone having someone there to show them how to deal with a hot not jumping in the deep end themselves on there own ??


 
Regardless of their age, letting someone new hook out, box up, and feed dwa snakes, is NOT the right way to mentor someone. Mentoring someone is a big responsibility, and safety is the main objective. I'm not saying under 18's shouldn't be taught (I'm on the fence on that), I'm saying they should be taught in the rightly way

To begin with, you need to know how to use a hook, and how the snakes will react. One days practice isn't going to teach you a thing. This sort of thing requires studying, advanced hook training, and a lot of observation. 

You're right, mentoring is the way to go, but letting a teenager, with no experience, mess with dwa's from day one, is not mentoring. It's throwing them in at the deep end. If the shop started from the beginning (,hook usage, toxicity, striking distance, ect), they wouldn't be a problem.


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

Advanced hook training, How do you get that?

Throwing someone in the deep end would be asking them to remove them without the hook.

The only real argument against Emmie doing what she's done is the possible negative press for other keepers.

The only way to get hook training is to hook a snake.
I've personally seen people start the day with zero experience and even a degree of fear of snakes to confidently manipulating captive snakes with hooks by the end of the day with the right attitude and respect for the animals it's not a problem.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Elapidae said:


> Advanced hook training, How do you get that?
> 
> Throwing someone in the deep end would be asking them to remove them without the hook.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding? Learning how to use a hook with a venomous snake is insane. What ever happened to 'experienced keepers only'?

"New to hooks? Here, hook this rattler." Talk about irresponsible.


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

No I'm not kidding.
All snake's behave differently on a hook even within their own species and while I admit to having no experience outside of Australian Elapids, I do know that the only way to learn to hook a snake is with that snake.
What is hooking Morelia etc going to teach me about hooking Pseudonaja. sp or Notechis? Absolutely nothing! 
However with correct guidance and providing their mentally up to it a person can learn the rudimentary skills of hooking and bagging them in a day. 
The rest is learned from exposure and observation and having the presence of mind to know when your unable to deal with a situation.

I'll hazard a guess that you have never dealt with hots and your objection to a complete novice hooking them stems from your own feeling that you would feel uncomfortable doing it.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

Elapidae said:


> No I'm not kidding.
> All snake's behave differently on a hook even within their own species and while I admit to having no experience outside of Australian Elapids, I do know that the only way to learn to hook a snake is with that snake.
> What is hooking Morelia etc going to teach me about hooking Pseudonaja. sp or Notechis? Absolutely nothing!
> However with correct guidance and providing their mentally up to it a person can learn the rudimentary skills of hooking and bagging them in a day.
> ...


I agree with you, and a few very experienced keepers have said the same to me too. 

But I think the only reason some people had a problem, was insurance purposes. IF it was forbidden by their insurance or LA, and they got caught it would put a bad light on other shops.


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## _emmie_x_ (Aug 7, 2010)

coldestblood said:


> Regardless of their age, letting someone new hook out, box up, and feed dwa snakes, is NOT the right way to mentor someone. Mentoring someone is a big responsibility, and safety is the main objective. I'm not saying under 18's shouldn't be taught (I'm on the fence on that), I'm saying they should be taught in the rightly way
> 
> To begin with, you need to know how to use a hook, and how the snakes will react. One days practice isn't going to teach you a thing. This sort of thing requires studying, advanced hook training, and a lot of observation.
> 
> You're right, mentoring is the way to go, but letting a teenager, with no experience, mess with dwa's from day one, is not mentoring. It's throwing them in at the deep end. If the shop started from the beginning (,hook usage, toxicity, striking distance, ect), they wouldn't be a problem.


 
_This seems to be the second time you have judged me without really knowing anything about me_

_1. I do have experience with few species, I have worked with reptiles as well_
_2. I do use a hook, I know how to use one perhaps not the best but the shop owner wouldn't of agreed to allow me to handle the venomous snakes, if he didn't think I was capable_
_3. I can read snakes behaviour a little, perhaps its why I have never been bitten since I've worked/kept snakes..._
_4. One days experience can teach you a lot, it has taught me a lot_

_Reading snakes behaviour can only do so much, each snake will react differently to a hook..._
_Some will sit on it and just watch or strike at you, others will try to wiggle/jump off it and some will even try to bite it_

_I posted a thread to show how happy I was, not to have people drag me back down just because they don't agree with it_

_No matter what age you get mentored at, the person is at risk... I was kept safe, I wasn't bitten, I wasn't harmed and no bad press _
_To be honest no matter what age you get mentored at, if the press found out they would still make it look 10x worse because thats them_

_I didn't tell others to go and get this experience, I just shared mine and I wish I didn't now_

_I didn't reply to this thread in hopes it would drop but it wasn't the case, so now please let it drop._


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

Elapidae said:


> No I'm not kidding.
> All snake's behave differently on a hook even within their own species and while I admit to having no experience outside of Australian Elapids, I do know that the only way to learn to hook a snake is with that snake.
> What is hooking Morelia etc going to teach me about hooking Pseudonaja. sp or Notechis? Absolutely nothing!
> However with correct guidance and providing their mentally up to it a person can learn the rudimentary skills of hooking and bagging them in a day.
> ...


I've worked with DWAs for over 2 years, and have 5 of my own: 2 x C. atrox, 2 x T. albolabris, and 1 x contortrix.

My licence is almost complete, with just the vet check left to book. So no, it's nothing to do with my inexperience.


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## coldestblood (Jun 4, 2011)

_emmie_x_ said:


> _This seems to be the second time you have judged me without really knowing anything about me_
> 
> _1. I do have experience with few species, I have worked with reptiles as well_
> _2. I do use a hook, I know how to use one perhaps not the best but the shop owner wouldn't of agreed to allow me to handle the venomous snakes, if he didn't think I was capable_
> ...


I'm sorry for messing up your experience (and/or thread), but when posting this thread, you must have known this would happen.

Forums are for sharing info, experiences, opinions, and advise. Posting about your experiece was obviously going to be viewed differently by each member. Some have a problem with it, and some dont. 

Out of respect, I'll no loger comment on your experience. 

Have a nice day


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## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Wow how was the overall day of your experience?
Is it only DWA snake's you might eventually work with not DWA lizard's?
Can't wait till i'm 18 CAIMEN here i come LOL.
All serious though it's not a joke working with any animal.


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## firece_creatures (May 28, 2008)

fardilis said:


> if it was illegal or irresponsible for peopel under 18 to be abe to be shown hot's why is it that places like the king cobra sanctuary, corcodiles of word, ans mutiple zoo's allow children to have there picture taken with a cobra around there neck or holding a croc? and then post the pics onine.
> 
> i can understand the shop not wanting people to know as a lot of you are clearly against it. i just think that as long as there certain the person isn't in any danger they can show them a *potentially* dangerous snake.


Is this person for real ??? What f***ing planet you on?

No zoo will let you near a DWA !! if your the general public !!!

King cobra sanctuary is all but gone .. r.i.p luke .. he had is way and he died by it .. but lets me honest nothing to be proud about but he knew his :censor:

And Shaun @ crocodiles of the world has nothing to do with dwa snakes (its not what he is in to) .. which if im not mistaken this is about dwa snakes .. not crocodiles or lizards

Plus the reason the shop does not want to be named is because it is against the law !!

Really get a grip people !!! stop trying to make a argument when it is black and white that the shop did it is wrong !! not emmie

Also to our australian friend .. you know as well as i do that depending on what state you live in depends on what license you need . I lived in perth and to keep animals you needed a 5 stage license which takes a good few years to get to get to the stage to keep hots

May be this is what we need in this country to stop all the stupid ******** trying to want to keep hots 
:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

god help us


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

u really answered ur own question there because surely to avoid creating stuid idiots that want to have hots the answer is educating young adults i.e teenagers who are interested about hots so that then they dont then become into these so called idiots your quoting. i see no legalaty issu as already mentioned its only illegal to keep hots with no licence not to handle them the issue would of been around the insurance. (and this id imagine it states if a member of the public is bitten or injured by there wild animal. it wont state feeding,handling etc) i really dont see the big deal surely theres children that come into contact all across the planet with wild animals of all kinds at least this was in a controlled enviroment


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## Elapidae (Jul 7, 2010)

firece_creatures said:


> Also to our australian friend .. you know as well as i do that depending on what state you live in depends on what license you need . I lived in perth and to keep animals you needed a 5 stage license which takes a good few years to get to get to the stage to keep hots
> 
> May be this is what we need in this country to stop all the stupid ******** trying to want to keep hots
> :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
> ...


And if you knew the license system in Perth well, you'd also know that I would only have to keep a Stimmie for 1year then a cat 4 Woma/BHP for a year then I would be able to apply for a cat 5. There is no law preventing minors from dealing with a category5 keepers animals. One way to gain experience regardless of whether you have ever kept a reptile at all is to do a 1day course in relocating wild reptiles which includes Highly venomous Elapids, Thats right "a 1 day course" then you can obtain a government issued license to relocate them from peoples homes and keep the animal for 72 hours before release. Provided a person has parental permission an under 18 may participate in some of these courses.

I can guarantee that keeping or gaining experience is a darn sight lot easier to achieve here than in the UK.

I don't know the laws over there but am led to believe that it is not illegal for an under 18 to deal with hots under supervision and if thats the case then it's the keepers responsibility and risk regarding insurance, like I said earlier the best handlers I know started out way before they turned 18 and if anything, provided laws aren't broken it's probably beneficial to gain that experience earlier rather than later.


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## AJ76 (May 24, 2011)

Did anyone catch the x factor semi final last night?? 

Gripping stuff cant wait for the final......


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

firece_creatures said:


> Is this person for real ??? What f***ing planet you on?
> 
> No zoo will let you near a DWA !! if your the general public !!!
> 
> ...


I may well be a little pedantic in the following comment.... but the DWAL covers many species. including lemurs. many zoos these days have a 'lemur walk' where you are physically inside the cage with them. so yeah, Zoos will let you near DWAL covered species. the same really applies for safari parks. whats to stop a nutter leaving the vehicle?


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## firece_creatures (May 28, 2008)

Moshpitviper said:


> I may well be a little pedantic in the following comment.... but the DWAL covers many species. including lemurs. many zoos these days have a 'lemur walk' where you are physically inside the cage with them. so yeah, Zoos will let you near DWAL covered species. the same really applies for safari parks. whats to stop a nutter leaving the vehicle?


True i never thought of it like that ... there are enough nutters out there

does make you wonder and realize how back to front our laws are


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## TheProfessor (Apr 19, 2011)

It seems to be with this that people are of mixed opinions, its not against the law for Em (sorry if you don't like the abbreviation) to handle those snakes if the shop has deem'd her able to. It states no where that an under 18 can't handle HOTs if they so desire and are accompanied and with the licence holder. 

Private keepers is something different, no one will know and its their own choice is they wish to risk null and void insurance in cases of an accident.
Personal choice make of this what you will, but tbh people do more stupid things everyday.

Pet shop, whilst irresponsible and risking their licence to continue trading, they haven't broken the law, now I don't know Em at all, she could be 12 or she could be 17, but the law hasn't been broken. 

As to lots of people comments about DWA, yes whilst HOTs are extremely dangerous, but so are *ALL* DWA animals, hence why they are on there. As pointed out anyone can get out of a car on safari, or in the zoo walk- through. 
There is a college which I won't name on here as its not far, but the students who work there go in the enclosures to clean the animals out and less then ideal situations where some are DWA but no one thinks about that? some of the students are only 16 when they start that course? 

Also people are saying you aren't experienced enough if you were surprised how fast the HOT could strike? 
Sorry but the first time you feed your HOT even if you have seen it a million times, I am willing to bet most of you were slightly shocked still, and if you say you weren't then am afraid your more than likely lying. 

I am sure more than most people are willing to own up to things where people would question. 
Croc owners, most people haven't handled a croc before they get their first! 
How many people do you know who are willing to let you into large cat enclosures to get first experience before you get your own? 
I am willing to bet not many!

Whilst I understand your concern about the possible outcome of this, it would look extremely bad in the papers, and possible hugely effective on the hobby itself, but because someone is trying to do a good thing doesn't mean the shop is bad. Everyone has to learn somewhere and its best to be with someone who has lots of experience than some other person who has recently had HOTs and then agreed to show someone. 

Most things in life aren't ideal, but tbh Em congrats on your experience, am glad you really enjoyed it, and hope it has inspired you for future and choices you will make. 

Whilst the situation may not of been hugely ideal for potential press issues, nothing has happened and thing maybe everyone needs to stop and be greatful for that, and just help Em on her way and for the great day she has had.


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## wilko92 (Aug 29, 2011)

Your all going on about being 18 to handel a danerious animal ETC.. have none of you thought of a 17 yr old could get a car capable of 100mph and able to kill many people and them selfs with it, how many of you slateing this thread have broken the speed limit? going on about laws like your all perfect, give the girl a break she had a good day notuhing happend thats all... she didnt say come feed me complete B.S. i mean there kids 16 and under that carry guns in the uk.. yet you pick on this girl for being SAFE what are you all on? (too the people slateing) just drop it and let the thread go now.. gone a little too far and too many people getting a lil personal! theres no need! 


Glad you had a good time emmie your brave ill give you that :2thumb:


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## scotty667 (Oct 14, 2011)

wilko92 said:


> Your all going on about being 18 to handel a danerious animal ETC.. have none of you thought of a 17 yr old could get a car capable of 100mph and able to kill many people and them selfs with it, how many of you slateing this thread have broken the speed limit? going on about laws like your all perfect, give the girl a break she had a good day notuhing happend thats all... she didnt say come feed me complete B.S. i mean there kids 16 and under that carry guns in the uk.. yet you pick on this girl for being SAFE what are you all on? (too the people slateing) just drop it and let the thread go now.. gone a little too far and too many people getting a lil personal! theres no need!
> 
> 
> Glad you had a good time emmie your brave ill give you that :2thumb:


SHUTUP WILKO NOBODY LIKE'S YOU!!!!.


ONLY JOKING WHO WOULDN'T LIKE YOU LET ME AT EM.:whip::whip::whip::whip:
LOL LOL LOL LOL.


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