# leopard geckos outside?



## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

What with all the posts recently about people taking their reps outside to let them soak up some sun, I am curious as to whether people do this with leos?

It may sound silly, because I know they are nocturnal, but seeing as some people keep their leos with UV lights.. do some people take them outside too?

Don't worry, before I get flamed blush I just want to say I am _not_ going to be doing this ~ firstly because my girls are still small, secondly because one of them is an albino and I am sure would not thank me for having her outside in the bright light, and thirdly, I would just be worried that they would get away & I don't really have any sort of suitable outside enclosure for them!

Just wondering really if this was something that some people do?
If so I bet some lovely photographs of them have been taken. Their colours would show up beautifully outside in natural light I would imagine. :flrt:

Bry x


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## Jesterone (Sep 30, 2012)

Leopard geckos aren't nocturnal. They are actually crepuscular. In fact many geckos people consider nocturnal are actually crepuscular. 

They do indeed benefit from UV and it has been found their skin is a lot more absorbent than that of, say, a bearded dragon. Where a Bearded would need a days worth in the sun a leopard gecko can absorb a similar amount in a much shorter time, like sunset or sunrise. 

Whether or not you take them out of have the facility to is your choice (or whoever since you've stated you're not) but I'd probably avoid the middle of the day.


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## littlefoot (Dec 6, 2007)

I for one would not take mine outside at all.My leopard gecko is definately nocturnal.He never ever comes out during the day.He is only out between 10pm and 6am and never at any other time.


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## tremerz97 (Nov 30, 2012)

my female i take outside sometimes, she has mbd so its good for her, she's out in the daytime for a stroll around the viv a fair bit


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## Jesterone (Sep 30, 2012)

littlefoot said:


> I for one would not take mine outside at all.My leopard gecko is definately nocturnal.He never ever comes out during the day.He is only out between 10pm and 6am and never at any other time.


Yes some individuals can be a bit of a recluse. But if you consider that timeframe in their natural environment, for a lot of the year they will still be out during dawn and dusk and will absorb those all important UV rays.


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for that, guys!
Oh, I didn't actually realise that.
So how comes some people are so against using UV lighting for leopard geckos? Don't want to spark a massive debate but I have been told by many people never to do it, that they don't require any sort of lighting, just heat!
Confused.com.. :blush:

_Edit;_ and is it still unadvisable to expose an albino leo to UV rays, whether natural or not?


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

I took mine outside today. It is great to get them out for half hour at about six in the evening. Any reptile will benefit from getting natural uv. After all they would get some uv in the wild and it can do no harm unless they are albino like you stated. 

Leopard geckos absorb uv rays quickly and vitamin d3 so they don't need long in the wild. It is thought the spotty heads on normal wild Leo's are there to absorb uv when they stick their heads out of burrows or from under things in the wild.


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Bradley said:


> Leopard geckos absorb uv rays quickly and vitamin d3 so they don't need long in the wild. It is thought the spotty heads on normal wild Leo's are there to absorb uv when they stick their heads out of burrows or from under things in the wild.


That is really interesting! What morph is your leo? Does that mean that all these new morphs without spots like the wildtype leos aren't able to absorb UV as well then?


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## Bradley (Aug 26, 2009)

TractorTotty said:


> That is really interesting! What morph is your leo? Does that mean that all these new morphs without spots like the wildtype leos aren't able to absorb UV as well then?


I have both a wild type and a super hypo so opposite end of the spectrum regarding spots! I am unsure whether one is able to absorb more. As we know the colour black seems to attract the sun if that's what it's called so any spots would attract the sun meaning uv absorption.


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

TractorTotty said:


> Thanks for that, guys!
> Oh, I didn't actually realise that.
> So how comes some people are so against using UV lighting for leopard geckos? Don't want to spark a massive debate but I have been told by many people never to do it, that they don't require any sort of lighting, just heat!
> Confused.com.. :blush:
> ...


Oh dear, don't go there! People say that they've been kept for many years without UV so they don't really need it (providing they have suitable supplements). Personally I don't think that's the case when there are so many MBD cases about. Some people don't want to spend the money and others don't keep up to date with new technology or husbandry.

I think people overly fuss with albinos. In most cases albino animals originate from wild caught individuals anyway, so there are albinos in the wild that live and breed (I'm sure leos aren't an exception). Just because they are a different morph doesn't mean that they have different requirements (especially where D3 etc is concerned). As long as there are plenty of hides facing in different directions I can't see the problem with albinos and UV (natural or not).


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Bradley said:


> I have both a wild type and a super hypo so opposite end of the spectrum regarding spots! I am unsure whether one is able to absorb more. As we know the colour black seems to attract the sun if that's what it's called so any spots would attract the sun meaning uv absorption.


Yes thats what I was thinking.. hmm..


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## Jesterone (Sep 30, 2012)

TractorTotty said:


> Thanks for that, guys!
> Oh, I didn't actually realise that.
> So how comes some people are so against using UV lighting for leopard geckos? Don't want to spark a massive debate but I have been told by many people never to do it, that they don't require any sort of lighting, just heat!
> Confused.com.. :blush:
> ...


For albinos; I wouldn't like to tell anyone what to do with their own animals in regards to their well being. But I can say for a fact there are people that house albinos of other species in outside enclosures and they do absolutely fine (in California)

For the UV for Leo's debate, anyone who has tried it will tell you it's helped in activity, appetite and skin tone. It's a relatively new idea and there are those that disagree with it purely because leopard geckos do live absolutely fine without them with the right supplementation. 

At the end of the day, the choice is with the owner. But doing some research will turn up little to no people that have tried it properly and haven't seen a positive change. Similarly for those that have switched to Repashy since its become more popular. 

That all being said, what works for one person doesn't always work for the other


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## Alasse12 (Jul 29, 2011)

I would think that the spots evolved as a form of camoflague primarily, although I suppose dark pigment would absorb sunlight quicker than lighter pigment. 

I personally don't see any harm in taking leopards out in the sun; where they live in western Asia, it gets pretty hot and sunny even early in the morning. I'm sure an hour or so would be good for them.


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## Jesterone (Sep 30, 2012)

vgorst said:


> I think people overly fuss with albinos. In most cases albino animals originate from wild caught individuals anyway, so there are albinos in the wild that live and breed (I'm sure leos aren't an exception). Just because they are a different morph doesn't mean that they have different requirements (especially where D3 etc is concerned). As long as there are plenty of hides facing in different directions I can't see the problem with albinos and UV (natural or not).


This is what I'd have liked to have said lol. Just didn't want people getting humpy. Braver than I vgorst


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

Hi all,

The sun is amazing and has an array of effects upon animals that we cant even begin to understand yet!

As said Leos are not nocturnes, that is a lie made up by the trade to sell lizards to kids that don't have the money to buy all of the required kit. They are crepuscular in the wild range. This means that they are more active at the safer times of day in the early morning and early evening.

Now lets put this into perspective. They originate from Afghanistan and Pakistan, they are commonly found in the hills and mountains. The UVindex of these areas is huge! 

Leopard geckos are reptiles, we can all agree on that. They have bones and skin right? they need Ca and P to maintain the bone density and balance the blood chemistry amoung other things, again we can all agree on that. They are highly insectivorous, yep again we pretty much know this but not for sure actually, that means a restricted availability of dietary D3 in the wild, yes we can assume that.

We know that most living things can and do use the D3 cycle to obtain natural D3 and use this among hundreds of other things to place Ca back into the bones.

We also know that these animals use UVA to view the world and to help balance brain chemistry, this is primarily called tetrachromacy. Without access to UVA even in small amounts they effectively lose colour vision. Again this is well researched in both reptiles and birds.

They are exo-therms, we call this being cold blooded, so they rely on external heat for energy. This is supplied either through infra-red or transferred heat from heated up rocks.

So why would a species take tens of millions of year to evolve to make the most of its surroundings and use the ability to use two of the main groups of light wavelengths and then filter out the need to use the BIGGEST source of free energy on our planet being UVB???? This does not make evolutionary sense.

They have adapted to life in the rocks in a very heavily predated area. They have adapted to stay away from the huge summer heat and out of view of hawks and man. They have evolved a thin skin that allows them to take in heat and light very quickly and have adapted to use a unique form of camouflage that provides good protection and allows them to draw in light through leaf and rock scatter illumination. This would allow them to not only have direct access to light but it would allow them to make up any dietary shortfall of D3, just as with snakes sunlight allows a good top up of what could be missing from the diet.

All in all they are reptiles! if we look to nature and try our best to re-create that in every way I believe that we have covered every base and given them the best chance in life. 

Our captive diets in the main are appalling and are about as close to the wild diet as a life of 100% kebab meat for a human, MUCH more work needs to be done.

If we adopt the light and shade method in captivity and re-create the average index as expected we cant go far wrong.

As far as morphs....well they are not the wild form and could have limitations, but they are still the core animal! they have the same needs and expectations. Would I put an enigma in full summer sun?...hell no! would I allow an albino access to 10-20mins in the evening yes for sure and I would watch it reaction, if it was showing that it was uncomfortable I would remove it or provide a hide for it to shelter its eyes.

Yes these animals have been farmed and kept in plastic boxes with no light and fed an array of synthetics and they have reproduced, to me it doesn't mean it is the best method for the animal.

I'm soooo not animal rights.....But I passionately believe that animals have rights!

So gauge your own animal, try it for 5 mins one evening and see its reaction, if it seems happy extend the period on the second day until you get to about half an hour.

John


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Well said, John :2thumb:

Thankyou all for your replies, you have been very helpful. 
I think a slight change of my setup and lighting may be required :blush:

I have also been reading up alot on UV since I first posted yesterday evening ~ learning some interesting stuff.


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## Kerrabutt (Jan 20, 2013)

About the black spot thing, as far as I know, the darker your skin, the less effective your body is at producing vitamin D3. People with dark skin living in the far north suffer vitamin D3 deficiency much more easily than people with pale skin. Melanin in the skin is there to dissipate UV radiation into heat and prevent it from causing cell damage, not absorb it.

UV radiation degrades certain vitamins such as tocopherols, folates and cartenoids as well, so it's really quite dangerous to have albinism and find yourself stuck in very strong sunlight, not to mention the damage it will do to your eyes (likewise why eye colour typically gets lighter the farther north you go, blue eyes are much more susceptible to eye damage than brown eyes because they have little to no melanin in the iris)


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

Its a very valid point!

We must though refer back to the wild form of the animal and set the bench mark there. Regardless of ones personal feeling about colour mutations they can be accommodated with careful planning. It certainly does not mean that the majority of these colours will not benefit from exposure in a measured way in the same way as the wild form.

The black spots do offer slightly more protection from the sun or so it is thought. This again is nature allowing the species to adapt to its environment. You can evolve a very thin absorbent skin to be used in low light when it is safer from predators and still need to balance this with areas that not only act to disguise you but balance out the exposure.

Reptiles are super advanced! if they had dexterity of grip, rational thinking and speech we certainly wouldn't be here!

john






Kerrabutt said:


> About the black spot thing, as far as I know, the darker your skin, the less effective your body is at producing vitamin D3. People with dark skin living in the far north suffer vitamin D3 deficiency much more easily than people with pale skin. Melanin in the skin is there to dissipate UV radiation into heat and prevent it from causing cell damage, not absorb it.
> 
> UV radiation degrades certain vitamins such as tocopherols, folates and cartenoids as well, so it's really quite dangerous to have albinism and find yourself stuck in very strong sunlight, not to mention the damage it will do to your eyes (likewise why eye colour typically gets lighter the farther north you go, blue eyes are much more susceptible to eye damage than brown eyes because they have little to no melanin in the iris)


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Jesterone said:


> This is what I'd have liked to have said lol. Just didn't want people getting humpy. Braver than I vgorst



Well it gets annoying when people treat them like vampires 

Come and get me humpy computer people!! :war: 
(that sounds so wrong!)


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

vgorst said:


> Well it gets annoying when people treat them like vampires


Haha, I must admit I was told that they don't need any sort of light at all, I don't currently use UV but do just use a normal household bulb for during the day to replicate some sort of day/night cycle! Not wishing to humanise them too much but I certainly wouldn't want to sit in darkness all day,and *I am sure leos would rather not either seeing as in the wild they don't*!

_EDIT;_ ^^^^^ that bit makes me sound like an idiot, as I know I wrongly said earlier that they were nocturnal haha :blush: even though I thought that, I didn't think they literally sat in the dark all day and never saw any daylight, just to clarify!!


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

TractorTotty said:


> Haha, I must admit I was told that they don't need any sort of light at all, I don't currently use UV but do just use a normal household bulb for during the day to replicate some sort of day/night cycle! Not wishing to humanise them too much but I certainly wouldn't want to sit in darkness all day,and *I am sure leos would rather not either seeing as in the wild they don't*!
> 
> _EDIT;_ ^^^^^ that bit makes me sound like an idiot, as I know I wrongly said earlier that they were nocturnal haha :blush: even though I thought that, I didn't think they literally sat in the dark all day and never saw any daylight, just to clarify!!


I think that's part of the problem, people say that such a species (leos certainly aren't the only ones!) don't need UV so new owners don't consider or research it. They're using old-school husbandry which means that new owners do too ~ I think it should at least be mentioned that a UV setup can be beneficial and direct people to the relevant information (I tend to direct people to the Arcadia site). 

I prefer using UV lights and do with (supposedly) nocturnal reptiles, they expose parts of their bodies when they need so takes away a lot of the guess work with supplements (also helps with the plants!). 

Even if you don't use UV with your leos, understanding UV / D3 pathways will most likely come in useful down the line, especially if you branch out to other lizards with different requirements (and face it, you probably will  )


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

vgorst said:


> (and face it, you probably will  )


I am trying to be strong and not get any more.. I have crap willpower though unfortunately and it's not looking promising.. 

I wish I had researched UV more when I first got them, although I havent had them for long at all so it isn't like they have been without it long!

I get what you mean about new owners and old-school husbandry techniques, if I had listened to everything I had been told when I was first asking questions they would have no pure calcium to help themselves to, be fed solely on mealworms and be kept in darkness the whole time! _Plus_ be living together :gasp:

I know everyone does everything differently, and it becomes hard to draw a line under what is right and what is wrong, although the basics are glaringly obvious to most people, I would think.

I am now looking into different types of UV and how leos use it, and in the near future will be installing UV lighting, methinks. Even if it only goes on (on a timer) for 15 mins twice a day, to replicate sunrise and sunset. And the albino will be able to get out of it if need be, as her viv is 4x2x2, and it will be down one end so she can either move to the other end or go in one of her hides and pop her little head out.

I must admit if I am handling the albino during the day (which isn't often but sometimes happens if I am cleaning the tank and she comes out and climbs up my arm) and sunlight is coming through the window, she doesn't squint or seem to shy away, she just tends to lay there and close her eyes and have a little snooze. She also isn't affected by the lighting in her viv, either, which did worry at me at first so I was vigilant to keep an eye on that and make sure she wasn't hiding away the whole time that the light was on etc.


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## Kerrabutt (Jan 20, 2013)

If you want to provide your Leos with lighting to improve their mental health and activity, this is entirely possible without using UVB at all. UVA is the part of the spectrum responsible for helping maintain circadian rhythms (day night cycles) by stimulating the production of serotonin and melatonin. Light intensity and colour temperature also play a very important role in the regulation of melatonin and serotonin. When it is bright and sunny, and light takes on a white colour, serotonin concentrations are highest, making you feel happy, active, and alert. As the light intensity lowers and light takes on a red/orange colour, production of serotonin winds down and melatonin kicks in, the hormone that makes you feel sleepy and lazy. When production of these two hormones gets out of whack due to a lack of external factors and light, you start to feel lethargic, lazy and depressed (lots of people in this country experience seasonal affective disorder due to dark winters)

With that in mind, a UV lamp with a high UVA component and a nice natural, even light is what is most important for your reptiles mental health. Aim for lamps with a colour temperature between 5200 - 5800 kelvin and a colour rendering index of 90 +. This will give you a nice natural 'daylight' light, and is the same light used to help people suffering with depression. It's also important that the light is strong enough in intensity, but that depends on a number of factors so I won't get into that.

Arcadia make a daylight flourescent tube with 2% UVB, a CRI of 90+ and a colour temp of 5600k iirc. This is ideal for normal and albino type leopard geckos, and I highly recommend lamps of this type as I've noticed a marked difference in my Cresties since exposing them to this type of lamp (it makes colours look really beautiful as well)

Phew :lol2: I know it's a bit to get your head around, but as I say I really vouch for these daylight lamps. Even I find myself drawn to them in the winter :mrgreen:


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Great info, thanks! I shall defo look into that UV light from Arcadia you mentioned. How long per day should I have it on for, do you think?


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Kerrabutt said:


> When it is bright and sunny, and light takes on a white colour, serotonin concentrations are highest, making you feel happy, active, and alert. As the light intensity lowers and light takes on a red/orange colour, production of serotonin winds down and melatonin kicks in, the hormone that makes you feel sleepy and lazy.


:hmm: Then how come I feel comatose in the day and and like a cheetah on speed at night? Safe to say the rest of what you said went straight over my head


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## Kerrabutt (Jan 20, 2013)

I'd just have it on for a straight 12 hours on, 12 off. Iran and Pakistan etc don't have the big variations in day time like we do in the north, it guess daylight hours might only change 2 hours here or there per season. Lazy and easy, perfect! :mrgreen:

@Vgorst, you must just have a nocturnal rhythm! I used to be like that, my mind would be buzzing at 5am and I'd sleep till 3pm if I could, really used to help with all those school exams. Dat brain. Environmental factors I guess, as well as age, gender, health, impossible to know! But you'll still use the same two hormones to tell your body when to wake up and go to sleep. If you've ever experienced jetlag then you'll know how ingrained your personal rhythm can be, annoyingly :mrgreen:


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

To incorporate all that ahs been said in this thread and also my own experiences i think it really does depend on your own geckos and how they react to the UV light.

Normal morphs a 2% UV light from research would be very beneficial and they appear to expose some of their body to this light and as stated they have super absorbant skin so only need a short period of time of exposure.

In the case of albino's of which all three of mine are, I have tried with a 2% UV light and the effect on their behaviour was staggering. They bolted to the nearest hide and refused to come out for the entire evening even after i turned the lamp off.
I dont mean they bolted and stayed looking out i mean they bolted and hid as far back as they possibly could and refused to come any where near the light.

This is not to say this will happen with all albinos and i did try this on repeat occasions to see if they adapted and got used to it but it was a no go on all three of my albinos.

The benefits if your gecko will take to UV exposure far out weigh the cost of buying a lamp and a fitting and always worth trying in my opinion.

As for taking them outside i have also tried this with the safe method of a high sided cardboard box and a hide from their vivarium placed in the box with them, Unfortunatly it was the same effect of bolting to the hide and refusing to come out.

This as i said just could be the way my leos are and may not be true of all albino leopard geckos.


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Thankyou for that, Dramen : victory:

I am going to try the albino with UV and if she reacts badly, change it back to the household lighting straight away.

How does the *Trixie Sunlight Pro 2.0 T8 UV Fluorescent Tube, 15 Watt, 45 cm* sound?


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## Jesterone (Sep 30, 2012)

TractorTotty said:


> y.
> 
> How does the *Trixie Sunlight Pro 2.0 T8 UV Fluorescent Tube, 15 Watt, 45 cm* sound?


Doesn't sound like anything. It's a light.













:lol2:


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## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

The % of a lamp can only be selected when taking the species/morph into mind and with the height of the viv. Don't forget UVB decreases in power the further from the lamp light travels.

So the higher the viv the more power (%) will be required. 

A 2% T8 is unlikely to have much of an effect in a viv that is 24" high.

but, when you take high output lamps like our T5 power compact the total amount of visible light is higher and as such the amount of energy from UVB (Index) is projected further.

The light and shade method must be employed in full to allow the effective self regulation of the animal.

You say that you have a pink eyed animal with light skin. you say that the viv is a 4x2x2 and that you have a stat controlled heat source.

Remember that heat and light go at the same end, cool and shade at the other. The animal can then self regulate its own exposure as it requires.

There is a brand new product that you may want to consider. It would certainly provide the index required very well and at a very affordable price and with ease of fitting (just 2 screws and your done)

We make a product call the D3+ UVFLOOD. this is a very nice plug and go HO power compact unit with electronics, lamp and a very special reflector all included. The D3+ would be too strong in your case but we also make a 2.4% version which uses a 6.5k kelvin colour 90+CRI 24w power compact. Yes it is 2.4% but 2.4% of a much higher number in terms of light output. They are also totally waterproof and totally flicker free.

We call it "The ParrotPro" don't let the name put you off! we will be re-boxing it for the crepuscular market also, same thing, same price different image on the box.

You could fit that in the centre of your hot end and this would provide a good amount of light over a VERY targeted area. This is managed with the special reflector.

Then build your decoration up to about 15" of the lamp at this boosting zone. The lizard can then choose its own elevation and level of exposure.

Here is a link to the product for your own interest, shop about if you decide it is of interest! there are some great offers on. UV Flood Lamp | Arcadia Aquatic

I am happy to help further if you want

john.


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Well my new UV kit shall be on its way to me in the post very soon! : victory:
Will let you know how little Pandora (the albino!) gets on with it! I have actually ventured outside with her into the garden now as its cooling down and not so bright.. she is in my hands, not roaming free.. she blinked a little bit at first when we stepped out, but so did I haha! She isn't cowering or squinting or shying away, she seems totally relaxed and happy! So hopefully a good sign! I am only going to allow her 10 minutes out here and then we are going back inside, but I think I shall bring her out for a little longer gradually each day so shes not completely shocked by the UV when I install it in her viv!



Thanks again guys,
Bry x


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

Having listened to a few people on here and through my own research, i started using a 2% UV bulb for all of my geckos. 

I used it for about 3 months, 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. Not a single gecko basked and they spent the whole time hiding from it. I also noticed that their feeding pattern changed, they ate less than usual.

When i stopped using it, everything returned to normal, behaviour, feeding etc.

I'm not saying that it's rubbish or that it doesn't work, it however did not work for me, it's my own personal choice to not use it anymore


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## repti99 (May 26, 2008)

Totally agree with you around 4 years ago when I started with Leo's had Uvs in there my opinion they hide away and come to life when it went off as now all my Leo's are kept in racks and albinos get especially stressed in bright light and in my eyes would do them more harm than good they are a nocturnal animal and should be kept that way putting lighting in there will change the regimes feeding etc but again just ones opinion askin as your Leo's are given the correct vitamin and calcium d3 supplement you Carnt go wrong.


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd never criticise anyone for using UV light in their Leo setups but I do kind of resent people who bang on as if you are doing something terrible if you don't use it! I have 2 at 12 years old and one almost 15 years old. I've never provided any UV other than what is naturally in the room and coming from other vivs. No health issues have arisen so far and they are getting closer to the much fabled 20 years! The man from ARCADIA says its essential though so let's buy some of his kit!


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

This topic has been brought up with Ron Tremper himself, i can't find the conversation at this time but he's kept and bred leopard geckos for over 30 years with no UV. All of his geckos are top quality and healthy :2thumb:


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

Marcia said:


> This topic has been brought up with Ron Tremper himself, i can't find the conversation at this time but he's kept and bred leopard geckos for over 30 years with no UV. All of his geckos are top quality and healthy :2thumb:


Apart from the Enigmas! :devil::whistling2:


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

geckograham said:


> Apart from the Enigmas! :devil::whistling2:


Apart from the enigmas :notworthy:


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## Madhouse5 (Jun 6, 2011)

uv and geckos, i have and never will not use it at all i think there been plenty of evidence that they don't need it or use it i use to have day light in my vivs when i first got my geckos at one point i thought two of mine was blind did not eat properly and always hid away the amount of uv given off by the sun at dawn and dust would be minimal i all do now is there housed in a well lit room and are feed well gutloaded and supplemented food all house on there own, the in the wild thing there not in the wild so if we are going to create the wild do we then put a predator in the mix too as this would be what they get in the wild, all i say is get your setup correct feed them good food and supplement correctly and your gecko will be fine


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

geckograham said:


> The man from ARCADIA says its essential though so let's buy some of his kit!


It's not just that, I have had alot of PMs from various people since I started this thread, either advising I do use UV, or don't use it, there are so many conflicting arguments on the internet and in books with regards with this subject too.. I of course respect people's opinions and some choose to use it, some don't, but seeing as both sides seem to have good and valid points, it is so confusing! It is not as though it is a known thing that should never be done, such as housing 2 adult male leos together, for example, and in situations like this I think the best way for me personally to find out the answer is to go ahead and try it myself! If my leos get on okay with it, then so be it ~ if they don't, they don't, and I have learnt for myself that UV is not for them. I want what is best for them, at the end of the day, so will try the UV and if for whatever reason it isn't for them/me, then so be it.



Madhouse5 said:


> uv and geckos, i have and never will use it at all i think there been plenty of evidence that they don't need it or use it i use to have day light in my vivs when i first got my geckos at one point i thought two of mine was blind did not eat properly and always hid away the amount of uv given off by the sun at dawn and dust would be minimal i all do now is there housed in a well lit room and are feed well gutloaded and supplemented food all house on there own, the in the wild thing there not in the wild so if we are going to create the wild do we then put a predator in the mix too as this would be what they get in the wild, all i say is get your setup correct feed them good food and supplement correctly and your gecko will be fine


..and no you're right, they are not in the wild, and I understand what you are saying about not introducing predators etc which is also natural, but that isn't a positive thing for them, surely trying to replicate some of the positive points of their natural lives is only to their benefit? Being forced to live in a wooden or plastic box is one of the most unnatural things I can think of for a leopard gecko; surely its not in the wrong to try to add some more realistic factors to their lives?


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

TractorTotty said:


> It's not just that, I have had alot of PMs from various people since I started this thread, either advising I do use UV, or don't use it, there are so many conflicting arguments on the internet and in books with regards with this subject too.. I of course respect people's opinions and some choose to use it, some don't, but seeing as both sides seem to have good and valid points, it is so confusing! It is not as though it is a known thing that should never be done, such as housing 2 adult male leos together, for example, and in situations like this I think the best way for me personally to find out the answer is to go ahead and try it myself! If my leos get on okay with it, then so be it ~ if they don't, they don't, and I have learnt for myself that UV is not for them. I want what is best for them, at the end of the day, so will try the UV and if for whatever reason it isn't for them/me, then so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> ..and no you're right, they are not in the wild, and I understand what you are saying about not introducing predators etc which is also natural, but that isn't a positive thing for them, surely trying to replicate some of the positive points of their natural lives is only to their benefit? Being forced to live in a wooden or plastic box is one of the most unnatural things I can think of for a leopard gecko; surely its not in the wrong to try to add some more realistic factors to their lives?


Trying for yourself is the only way to decide what's right for your geckos  it's what I did and it didn't work out for me.

Don't let people dictate what you should or shouldn't do in this situation, make your own mind up 


Sent from my iPhone whilst battling zombies


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Marcia said:


> Trying for yourself is the only way to decide what's right for your geckos  it's what I did and it didn't work out for me.
> 
> Don't let people dictate what you should or shouldn't do in this situation, make your own mind up


:2thumb: Thanks Marcia! Thats what I am going to do. Chances are it won't work out, and I will have wasted alot of money on a UV setup for nothing haha, but chances are it will be fine and then it shall be money well spent! Either way, you never know until you try. 

Bry x


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

If all fails, you can buy another lizard that requires UV 


Sent from my iPhone whilst battling zombies


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

haha! I swear you lot are all in on some huge conspiracy thing together, I am having to try soo hard to resist the temptation that is so many beautiful lizards and reptiles ~ and all you lot are doing is making it even harder! "go on, you can have one more.." "how about this one?" "these are nice!" and so on.. :whip: lol!


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

Just admit you're becoming an addict lol. It's ok, really, come over to the dark side lol


Sent from my iPhone whilst battling zombies


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## TractorTotty (Jun 3, 2013)

Marcia said:


> Just admit you're becoming an addict lol. It's ok, really, come over to the dark side lol


nooooooo!!
okay, you got me, yes I am becomming *slightly* addicted.. just slightly, though.


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## Marcia (Aug 23, 2009)

TractorTotty said:


> nooooooo!!
> okay, you got me, yes I am becomming *slightly* addicted.. just slightly, though.


You'll get there.....lol


Sent from my iPhone whilst battling zombies


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