# The Pygmy Chameleon Thread.



## peterspets

As there are threads for keepers of tokay geckos, green tree pythons etc. I thought I would start one for pygmy chameleons.
If you have any species of pygmy chameleons, or are just interested in them please feel free to make any comments.
Here are a few useful links below.
A dedicated website for pygmy chameleons.
www.pygmychameleon.co.uk - The Pygmy Chameleon Community
Jungle bugs, run by Neil where I got my bearded pygmy chameleons from.
Pair of Bearded Pygmy Chameleon - £42.00 : Junglebugs!,, online spider and invert store
A caresheet by the crested lady.
Crested Lady Reptiles- Pygmy Caresheet
An American caresheet I found.Not sure about all the information on it though.
Chameleons! Online E-Zine
My setup.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat-pictures/469420-pygmy-chameleon-setup.html
The book "stump tailed chameleons, miniature dragons of the rainforest".I need to get this book so if anyone has a used copy for sale at a reasonable price please let me know.
Stump-tailed Chameleons: Miniature Dragons of the Rainforest: Amazon.co.uk: Petr Necas, Wolfgang Schmidt: Books
Another sheet.
Rhampholeon brevicaudatus profile

Please feel free to add any comments about any species of pygmy chameleons on this thread!


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## andy007

Woo hoo......Pygmy chams very own thread:2thumb:

I haven't got mine yet though, but I'm in process of setting up for a Trio of Rhampholeon ulugurensis that I'm hopefully getting for Neil in a week or two.


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## Ninjaaa23

plan on getting a few in the next few weeks as well unless i am tempted by a snake.


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## peterspets

I used to keep snakes, I have had a royal python and a gopher snake, also a tokay gecko.I find snakes boring really compared to pygmy chams!Lizards are far more interesting, snakes just sit in a box all day doing nothing.I watch my pygmy chams all the time and if you have a nice viv as well this is part of the charm of them, keeping them in a nicely planted viv.


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## Ninjaaa23

peterspets said:


> I used to keep snakes, I have had a royal python and a gopher snake, also a tokay gecko.I find snakes boring really compared to pygmy chams!Lizards are far more interesting, snakes just sit in a box all day doing nothing.I watch my pygmy chams all the time and if you have a nice viv as well this is part of the charm of them, keeping them in a nicely planted viv.


probs get both:lol2:


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## peterspets

Come on everybody, lets hear some more about diet, vivs, heating, lighting, misting, supplements, breeding etc. etc.
I will start off by saying I have mine in a 600 x 600 x 45 exo terra viv, hydroleca and coco coir substrate with almond leaves and twisted hazel twigs on top.I have tropical springtails and will get some woodlice sometime (if you have any tropical woodlice I need some).
I have a ceramic heat lamp on a dimming stat, I mist twice a day an hour after lights on and 2 hours before lights out, I use cheap bottled supermarket water for this (12p from Tesco, Asda, Morrisons etc).I use a pump sprayer for this, trying not to spray th chams directly as I think it stresees them a bit.(is this correct or should I spray them directly?).I have a 5.0 compact uv and normal compact as well, I have the viv in total darkness at night with a black cloth around it.
Plants I have carex grass, ficus sunny, ficus pumila and ficus benjamin.If I did my viv again I would only use the ficus benjamin as it suits the chams so well and really thrives in the viv.
The background is expanding foam and silicone with coco coir on it.
I feed with small BANDED crickets, these do not bite like black or brown silent crickets and they were recomended to me by Neil at JUNGLEBUGS.
I supplement with tiny amounts of calcium and also nutrobal once a week.I feed about 4 per cham every other day, as it such a large viv sometimes there are crickets left in, but they do seem to find them eventually!
Any other info is greatly appreciated, not only about bearde pygmy chameleons but any other pygmy chams as well.
Does anybody know what all the different colours mean? My female is a lovely dapple grey colour when she is at the top of the viv, she is usually puffed up as well when she is this colour, when she is hiding underneath at the bottom in the dark she is usually olive green.The male is always a deep chocolate brown, also his eyes seem small and he does not look like he is well, I do not know really though as he is up and about hunting all the time, maybe I am over reacting!


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## VW_Rick

Nguru pygmy chams at the living rainforest. Very cute but quite a bit more than I'd pay for something that reaches about 2inches long..

These guys were my personal favourite that they had in..







again.. very expensive beasties at £100.

How are the bearded's, do they move around much, any interactions? How often is it that you see them feed?


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## Ninjaaa23

this thread needs pics:whistling2:


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## VW_Rick

I've decided I'm gong to get some as a reward to myself after I've finished all these essays, revision and exams that I'm supposed to be revising for right now.. give me something to work towards. I think they are going to be my breeding project for next year. Are there many breeders fo these beasties out there? I'd rather buy from a breeder than a shop.


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## peterspets

VW_Rick said:


> image Nguru pygmy chams at the living rainforest. Very cute but quite a bit more than I'd pay for something that reaches about 2inches long..
> 
> These guys were my personal favourite that they had in.. image again.. very expensive beasties at £100.
> 
> How are the bearded's, do they move around much, any interactions? How often is it that you see them feed?


They are really shy, sometimes I do not see the female all day.Then all of a sudden she will appear as bold as brass looking lovely and all puffed up!They will spend most of the time in one place waiting in a downward position about an inch from the bottom just waiting for something to pass that they can eat.I have seen both of mine eat about a fortnight ago, I have not seen them eat since.You have to be patient and they will catch and eat there prey in seconds.


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## peterspets

VW_Rick said:


> I've decided I'm gong to get some as a reward to myself after I've finished all these essays, revision and exams that I'm supposed to be revising for right now.. give me something to work towards. I think they are going to be my breeding project for next year. Are there many breeders fo these beasties out there? I'd rather buy from a breeder than a shop.


I got mine from Neil at Pair of Bearded Pygmy Chameleon - £42.00 : Junglebugs!,, online spider and invert store
I am getting 4 females from him shortly, he does not have any at the moment.He is very knowledgeable and has a farm in Tanzania where he keeps and breeds them, they are looking good and as I said earlier I am getting some more from him.
I do believe there are a few people on here that breed them, from previous posts I do know that VETDEBBIE does.


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## andy007

I must say Neil at junglebugs has been really helpful with all the questions I've thrown at him. Once I get my ulugurensis I'll start recording my experience with them in regards to behaviour and habits: victory:


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## bumbleyjoe

Love pygmys! Its great to watch them eat! The way their eyes follow the cricket untill it stops moving, the tongue comes out a little then suddenly in the cricket is in their mouth! they are so quick when it comes to catching crickets! so cute!


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## vetdebbie

Hi guys

I do indeed keep and breed pygmies - R brevs to be precise. Cuting back on the breeding at the moment as mo own CB trio are now 2 years 4 months old (well the girls are). Saying that I believe there are eggs incubating in the substrate at the moment! We shall see if they hatch.

Once these guys pass on I would like a different species. However I suspect my currently lonely f2 CB male will probably end up finding himself a girlfriend or two to carry on the line in the next few months.

When I have time I will dig out some photos of them.


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## stuarto69

This thread needs photos!










Ickle babies


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## Geckogirl_88

AWWWWWW!
...
Excuse me, but I seem to be having an attack of cuteness overload.
lol
xx


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## andy007

Great pictures Stuart:2thumb:


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## peterspets

*Water for pygmy chams?*

How do you give water to your pygmy chams?
At present I spray with a hand pressure sprayer, (the type with a pump on it).I use cheap bottled water from any supermarket, usually about 12p for a 2 litre bottle.I spray the viv about an hour after the lights come on in the morning.This is so things can warm up a bit, (my lights are on a 12 hour on/off cycle 8am - 8pm).I also spray around 6pm, 2 hours before lights off, this is so the viv can warm back up again slightly before nightfall.
A few questions for other keepers of pygmy chams.

1. What water do you use? bottled water, rain water, tap water either treated or untreated or reverse osmosis water.

2. What do you spray with? hand sprayer, pressure sprayer, water dripper, ultrasonic humidifier, automatic misting system

3. Do you spray your animals as well as the plants etc?

4.Any other thoughts on water?


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## peterspets

*What plants do you use for your pygmy chameleon set up?*

As above, I have ficus pumila for the back and sides of the viv, ficus sunny, ficus benjamin and carex grass in the rest of the viv.
When I set a viv up again I would just use ficus benjamin, this plant looks really good, gives lots of climbing branches and thrives in the viv.
The carex grass looks okay as well, the ficus pumila has yellowed and the ficus sunny has dropped most of its leaves.
I washed all the soil from the roots from all the plants and washed all the leaves as well, make sure that you rmove ALL fertiliser etc. before putting in the viv.
Any more thoughts on plants, even artificial?


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## peterspets

*What substrate do you use for your pygmy chameleon setup?*

As above, I use 2 inches (50mm) of hydroleca, weed membrane, 3 inches (75mm) of coco coir, This is topped off with baby almond leaves and twisted hazel twigs.I also have tropical springtails (I will get some tropical woodlice as well).These clean up any mould or decaying matter, including chameleon poo and any dead crickets.
The depth of the substrate means that the top of it comes to just below the air vent on the front of the exo terra viv.
I think that the deeper the substrate layer the better, for drainage and egg laying (hopefully).
What are everybody else's views?


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## peterspets

*What background do you use for your pygmy chameleons?*

As above, I have a foam, silicone and coco coir build.I have set 2 small plant pots in this with carex grass in it.
What do you use?
I have ordered some coco panel for my next viv, any thoughts on this?


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## VW_Rick

peterspets said:


> As above, I use 2 inches (50mm) of hydroleca, weed membrane, 3 inches (75mm) of coco coir, This is topped off with baby almond leaves and twisted hazel twigs.I also have tropical springtails (I will get some tropical woodlice as well).These clean up any mould or decaying matter, including chameleon poo and any dead crickets.
> The depth of the substrate means that the top of it comes to just below the air vent on the front of the exo terra viv.
> I think that the deeper the substrate layer the better, for drainage and egg laying (hopefully).
> What are everybody else's views?


I read that egg laying needs a minimum of 4" substrate, I'd liek to see one of these little guys dig through 4"es of soil though. 

Does anyone know where I can get hold of someone that knows anything about or breeds/possibly imports some ruwenzori side striped chameleons?


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## nogatsira

i win the internets!


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## peterspets

*What is everybody feeding there pygmy chameleons?*

I feed mine on small banded crickets, about 5mm long.These do not bite like other crickets.I feed about 8 for my 2 chams every other day, I dust with a 1/4 of a pinch of calcium for every feed.I change the calcium once a week for nutrobal, using a 1/4 of a pinch.I have read that you can over supplement and have to be careful.I tried mini mealworms but with no luck.I would like to try other foods, what do you recommend everybody, I have been thinking of lots to try including:- hopper locusts, fruitfly, curly fly, waxworms, bean weevil.Any comments or advice welcome.


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## peterspets

*What temperatures/humidity do you keep your pygmy chameleons at?*

I try for 70f to 75f in the day and 65f to 70f at night with 70% humidity.Is this correct?


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## andy007

Well, I've been a bit busy today but am hopefully getting the substrate and vines into the viv tomorrow. Will start taking some pictures of the progress.


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## Ninjaaa23

nogatsira said:


> i win the internets!
> 
> 
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image
> image


#
what species are these


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## nogatsira

Ninjaaa23 said:


> #
> what species are these


Trioceros hoehnelii


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## peterspets

*Species and pictures.*

It would be good if we could post pictures of all the different species on here.


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## peterspets

*What to do in hot weather?*

What does everybody do in hot weather to cool there vivs?


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## nogatsira

peterspets said:


> What does everybody do in hot weather to cool there vivs?


keep 'em in the basement


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## andy007

Right then.....started my pygmy viv:2thumb:

Got the clay balls in and covered with mesh










Got the main substrate in, which is a mix of eco-earth and forest moss. Then started the main planting










Got some bendy vines in










Added some dried almond leaves and moss to bottom



















Want to add some small narrow twigs tomorrow, which I have in the shed:2thumb:


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## andy007

Where do people get their Springtails from?? Been looking but cant find anywhere.


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## nogatsira

andy007 said:


> Where do people get their Springtails from?? Been looking but cant find anywhere.


my store! 
but its in belgium .. :whip:


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## Ninjaaa23

andy007 said:


> Where do people get their Springtails from?? Been looking but cant find anywhere.


dartfrog.co.uk


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## andy007

Thanks ....... going to take a look:2thumb:


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## peterspets

andy007 said:


> Where do people get their Springtails from?? Been looking but cant find anywhere.


I have some colonies going at the moment!


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## peterspets

andy007 said:


> Right then.....started my pygmy viv:2thumb:
> 
> Got the clay balls in and covered with mesh
> 
> image
> 
> Got the main substrate in, which is a mix of eco-earth and forest moss. Then started the main planting
> 
> image
> 
> Got some bendy vines in
> 
> image
> 
> Added some dried almond leaves and moss to bottom
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> Want to add some small narrow twigs tomorrow, which I have in the shed:2thumb:


Looking good, very similar to my setup, the only differences are that I have taken the substrate level right up to just below the vent at the front.This may be worth considering, as if they lay eggs it may not be deep enough and the eggs will get to wet and die.
Put some twigs on the floor intertwined, so they are steady, this is where they will spend time waiting for food with there heads about an inch from the ground waiting for passing prey, also they are in the shade as they prefer it dark.
I hope you have made it cricket escape proof!I had to fill the holes in at top where the wires com in with plasticine.


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## rob2278

andy007 said:


> Where do people get their Springtails from?? Been looking but cant find anywhere.


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...8881-fruit-flys-springtails-bean-weavils.html


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## andy007

peterspets said:


> Looking good, very similar to my setup, the only differences are that I have taken the substrate level right up to just below the vent at the front.This may be worth considering, as if they lay eggs it may not be deep enough and the eggs will get to wet and die.
> Put some twigs on the floor intertwined, so they are steady, this is where they will spend time waiting for food with there heads about an inch from the ground waiting for passing prey, also they are in the shade as they prefer it dark.
> I hope you have made it cricket escape proof!I had to fill the holes in at top where the wires com in with plasticine.


I have some dry twiggy branches in the shed ready to be put in:2thumb: The substrate level gets higher towards the back of the viv, but will add some more to the front. 
Checking for cricket escape routes is on the agenda for today:2thumb:


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## Ninjaaa23

bump up for awsome thread


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## peterspets

*Anyone seen theres eating?*

Just seen the male get a cricket, 1st time I have seen him eat for over a month since getting him.


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## peterspets

*Night time lighting.*

Just a bit of info. I read somewhere, pygmy chams prefer near total darkness at night.I have no night light in my viv and wrap a black cloth around it every night!


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## andy007

peterspets said:


> Just a bit of info. I read somewhere, pygmy chams prefer near total darkness at night.I have no night light in my viv and wrap a black cloth around it every night!


Good idea: victory:


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## peterspets

A question I keep asking but no reply so far, is it better to spray the chams directly or avoid them, mine do not seem to like it.


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## rob2278

peterspets said:


> A question I keep asking but no reply so far, is it better to spray the chams directly or avoid them, mine do not seem to like it.


Not owned Pigmy Chams myself, but when I had Veiled Chams, they used to hate being directly sprayed with water.


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## xvickyx

Awwwwww they are so cute & small


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## Ninjaaa23

peterspets said:


> A question I keep asking but no reply so far, is it better to spray the chams directly or avoid them, mine do not seem to like it.


i wouldnt directly spray them


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## kizno1

can you use normal silicon in there tanks or do you have to use aquarium silicon? i want to make a small waterfall just to keep humidity. there wont be a pool for them to fall into im going to make the water go back into a tub underground with the filter in and cover it with some slate and substance.


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## nogatsira

kizno1 said:


> can you use normal silicon in there tanks or do you have to use aquarium silicon? i want to make a small waterfall just to keep humidity. there wont be a pool for them to fall into im going to make the water go back into a tub underground with the filter in and cover it with some slate and substance.


I wouldn't do that. It'll get a lot of bacteria in.


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## peterspets

kizno1 said:


> can you use normal silicon in there tanks or do you have to use aquarium silicon? i want to make a small waterfall just to keep humidity. there wont be a pool for them to fall into im going to make the water go back into a tub underground with the filter in and cover it with some slate and substance.


If you look at the links on the very first posting on this thread you will see some useful links for setting up a viv for pygmy chams, also links to the pygmy cham website.


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## kizno1

peterspets said:


> If you look at the links on the very first posting on this thread you will see some useful links for setting up a viv for pygmy chams, also links to the pygmy cham website.


ive read them alredy :]


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## kizno1

one more question. ive got a clearseal tank that i want to convert so theres more ventlation. im going to take the bit you lift up for feeding off and silicon some mesh across the lid so theres no places to escape but it will have better ventlation. the only mesh i can find is 6mm by 6mm gaps wll that be ok or will that lose to much humidity?


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## LIZARD

THESE DUDES r so cool im actually selling a pair of pitted pygmys as i already have a pair gravid. I think these are a bit overlooked i think they are awsome for cham keepers and also peeps who dont have a large amount of space for the larger cham specie

i luff pygmys :flrt:


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## makeitandskateit

used o have a pair of these but unfortunately had to sell. I would love to own them again, they are amazing creatures!!


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## andy007

kizno1 said:


> one more question. ive got a clearseal tank that i want to convert so theres more ventlation. im going to take the bit you lift up for feeding off and silicon some mesh across the lid so theres no places to escape but it will have better ventlation. the only mesh i can find is 6mm by 6mm gaps wll that be ok or will that lose to much humidity?



If you find you loose too much humidity, you can always cover part of it:2thumb:


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## VW_Rick

kizno1 said:


> one more question. ive got a clearseal tank that i want to convert so theres more ventlation. im going to take the bit you lift up for feeding off and silicon some mesh across the lid so theres no places to escape but it will have better ventlation. the only mesh i can find is 6mm by 6mm gaps wll that be ok or will that lose to much humidity?


I take it you mean the flap? As I wouldn't think you'd silicone the whole top on! I don't think that will be enough ventilation sorry, you would have to put a small fan in the side of the tank of a large-ish vent of some sort aswell as the top mesh.


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## andy007

VW_Rick said:


> I take it you mean the flap? As I wouldn't think you'd silicone the whole top on! I don't think that will be enough ventilation sorry, you would have to put a small fan in the side of the tank of a large-ish vent of some sort aswell as the top mesh.



If Kizno means using mesh across the whole top of a fish tank, then surely it will be fine for pygmies. Bearing in mind they require higher humidity than standard full sized chams. It would be just like using an Exo.


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## VW_Rick

No, I think he means the little flap on the clearseal lids, it's about 2x20" long across the top.


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## Ninjaaa23

check out these enclosures guys 
they are real good at holding humidity plus are appealing
House of Spiders - House of Spiders


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## VW_Rick

Look alright, but expensive!


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## andy007

Ah I see what you mean about the clearseal hoods VW_Rick:2thumb:

Ninja - I enquired about the prices of similar enclosures and they were well expensive:devil: Although I dont think they would have sufficient ventilation for pygmies.


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## VW_Rick

Yeah you can buy them without the hood's though for pretty cheap, I was thinking of getting one and making a wooden frame top with mesh in the middle and just putting a UV on top or inside. BUT then again you can get a 30x30x45H exoterra for £35 delivered on seapets so building hassle or spend a few quid more? Think I'd go with the nice neat exo terra


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## kizno1

im just going to take the little flap bit of the lid of. its about 30x4" long. and them cover the bottom of the lid with mesh so it c\ant get out because theres a few holes in the back and so theres a good circulation. what type of mesh do you think is best? i can get a metal mesh thats holes are 6mmx6mm or a plastic mesh that holes are 2mmx2mm.


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## peterspets

My male shed his skin today!I did not even know he was about to shed, no tell tale signs like with snakes.


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## VW_Rick

kizno1 said:


> im just going to take the little flap bit of the lid of. its about 30x4" long. and them cover the bottom of the lid with mesh so it c\ant get out because theres a few holes in the back and so theres a good circulation. what type of mesh do you think is best? i can get a metal mesh thats holes are 6mmx6mm or a plastic mesh that holes are 2mmx2mm.


As I said mate, personally I don't think there's enough ventilation there unless you put a vent in the tank near the bottom aswell so it draws air in through the bottom then out through the top.


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## kizno1

VW_Rick said:


> As I said mate, personally I don't think there's enough ventilation there unless you put a vent in the tank near the bottom aswell so it draws air in through the bottom then out through the top.


 cheers
thats going to be a bit of a pain to do.


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## andy007

Woo hoo......just placed the order for a Trio of Ulugurensis from Junglebugs:2thumb:


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## peterspets

andy007 said:


> Woo hoo......just placed the order for a Trio of Ulugurensis from Junglebugs:2thumb:


I just picked 2 more female Brevs up today from Neil, here are some piccies:2thumb:
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-pictures/507910-bearded-pygmy-chameleons.html


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## peterspets

andy007 said:


> Woo hoo......just placed the order for a Trio of Ulugurensis from Junglebugs:2thumb:


Any pictures of your setups?


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## andy007

peterspets said:


> Any pictures of your setups?


No new pics:blush: been a bit busy in a new job:2thumb:


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## peterspets

*Oooh! an egg!*

Just misting and found a single egg, not buried, just on top of the substrate.Had a look for any more but could not see any, I think it is from one of my new females.I have it on some damp tissue in a cricket box at the moment, will put it on some vermiculite tomorrow.Fingers crossed it is fertile.


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## andy007

Lets hope it hatches for you:2thumb:

Was talking to a guy today who has a trio of Kenyans. He was thinking about whether to add a couple of American Green Tree frogs in with them. I didn't like to say whether it would work or not, although the requirements are pretty similar. 

What do you guys think?


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## peterspets

andy007 said:


> Lets hope it hatches for you:2thumb:
> 
> Was talking to a guy today who has a trio of Kenyans. He was thinking about whether to add a couple of American Green Tree frogs in with them. I didn't like to say whether it would work or not, although the requirements are pretty similar.
> 
> What do you guys think?


 I do not think it is a good idea myself, although I have heard that some people have kept Golden Mantella's with Pygmy Chameleons with good results.


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## andy007

peterspets said:


> I do not think it is a good idea myself, although I have heard that some people have kept Golden Mantella's with Pygmy Chameleons with good results.


Is there any specific reason why? I just wanna be able to give him an educated answer  I'll be talking to him again tomorrow.
The only problem I could come up with was whether the frogs would disturb the chams at night?


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## nogatsira

Ninjaaa23 said:


> check out these enclosures guys
> they are real good at holding humidity plus are appealing
> House of Spiders - House of Spiders


I don't think they'll give enough ventilation for pygmy spss


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## andy007

nogatsira said:


> I don't think they'll give enough ventilation for pygmy spss


They're well expensive too I believe? Had a quote on a custom size and it was like twice the amount of an equivalent exo.

You could drill extra holes in them though.


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## stuarto69

Hi all

Just thought I'd let you know I woke up to 4 little baby pygmy chams this morning! :flrt:

I'll post a couple of pictures over the weekend. I'm hoping the other four will hatch by the time I get home tonight.


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## Trissai

stuarto69 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know I woke up to 4 little baby pygmy chams this morning! :flrt:
> 
> I'll post a couple of pictures over the weekend. I'm hoping the other four will hatch by the time I get home tonight.


Awesome!! Congratulations

Look forward to pics :2thumb:


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## andy007

stuarto69 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know I woke up to 4 little baby pygmy chams this morning! :flrt:
> 
> I'll post a couple of pictures over the weekend. I'm hoping the other four will hatch by the time I get home tonight.


Cool:2thumb:

My first Chams are arriving tomorrow: victory:


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## Mujician

I got to page 5, so please forgive me for posting this if its been asked.

I have a pair of Kenyan pygmies (R. Kirsteni), and the female has layed eggs. They have been in the substrate of the enclosue for quite some time. Is this the best way of incubating them? Or should I have removed them in the same way as my Rankins Dragons and Leos?


Does anyone know the life expectancy of pygmies? I have had an adult male bearded pygmy for a year now, and he's massive. I got him from a shop so dont know exactly how old he is. I would guess at least 8 or so months when I got him.

Finally, does anyone have any CB babies at the moment? (Of bearded chams, or kenyan chams) Thanks, Ben


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## andy007

Mujician said:


> I got to page 5, so please forgive me for posting this if its been asked.
> 
> I have a pair of Kenyan pygmies (R. Kirsteni), and the female has layed eggs. They have been in the substrate of the enclosue for quite some time. Is this the best way of incubating them? Or should I have removed them in the same way as my Rankins Dragons and Leos?
> 
> 
> Does anyone know the life expectancy of pygmies? I have had an adult male bearded pygmy for a year now, and he's massive. I got him from a shop so dont know exactly how old he is. I would guess at least 8 or so months when I got him.
> 
> Finally, does anyone have any CB babies at the moment? (Of bearded chams, or kenyan chams) Thanks, Ben



As long as the temps in your viv are stable at 72-78f, and the eggs are buried and cant get wet, they should hatch in around 80 days.

Life expectancy is around 7 years I believe.

Neil at www.junglebugs.co.uk has CF's in at present.


----------



## Mujician

andy007 said:


> As long as the temps in your viv are stable at 72-78f, and the eggs are buried and cant get wet, they should hatch in around 80 days.
> 
> Life expectancy is around 7 years I believe.
> 
> Neil at www.junglebugs.co.uk has CF's in at present.


I'd like CBs, not CFs. Thanks anyway.


----------



## andy007

Mujician said:


> I'd like CBs, not CFs. Thanks anyway.


No probs. I believe they are CF's, but maybe worth asking him: victory:


----------



## andy007

*There here*

My Trio of Ulugurensis arrived a short while ago:2thumb: Snapped a few piccies whilst giving them a check over before being allowed to explore their new home.

The two females

























The male (Has a bit of muck on him)


----------



## andy007

And exploring


















Thanks to Neil at Junglebugs: victory:


----------



## peterspets

:2thumb:nice!I probably saw these when I was lucky enough to go to Neils, when I picked up my last 2 female brevs.


----------



## Geckogirl_88

Are there any of these smaller chameleon species that grow to about 4-5" long (SVL) but no more? 
Iv always wanted a veiled cham, and they are so gorgeous when they are smaller. But they get so much bigger and I dont have the space for the big tank's they need. tbh I cant go any bigger than 45x45x60.
Are there any species which fit comfotably in that?
The bearded pygys are cute, but they are so teeny, id probs never see them. Plus id be worried about stressing them, or squashing them lol
xx


----------



## andy007

Geckogirl_88 said:


> tbh I cant go any bigger than 45x45x60.
> Are there any species which fit comfotably in that?


These three are in a 45cm cube: victory:

Most of the Pygmy species max out at around 2.5". There are some examples of Bearded pygmies that have reached 3".

The Cape "Dwarf" Chameleon (Bradypodion pumilum) gets to around 3".


----------



## andy007

Just watched the male sneak down and take a cricket......good sign:2thumb:


----------



## gary1621

Andy, they look great 

Good luck with your new additions

I currently have a 1.1 pair of Brevs and 4 eggs cooking  Cant wait for them to hatch (keep your fingers crossed for us) We are a week away from the 90 day mark, so it could be any day now.


----------



## gary1621

My female dug the eggs up today!! And laid another four in the same spot!!

I've removed all eight now. They will cook in the cupboard in the kitchen.

The four original eggs are wriggling  Could be very soon.


----------



## stuarto69

I found another hatchling this morning to go with the four from last week. I'll try and post photo's tonight, fingers crossed the final three eggs hatch.


----------



## gary1621

Congrats


----------



## peterspets

*What do you do with your eggs?*

I have 1 egg at the moment (hopefully more in the viv!).I have it in an empty cricket box with the lid on with a few holes in it with vermiculite, half buried and sprayed with bottled water.I have an exo terra hygrometer in there and it shows 70% is this correct?


----------



## peterspets

One of my females dug a hole today and laid 1 good egg, 1 half size egg and 3 tiny undeveloped eggs.She left them in the hole so I put them on some damp vermiculite.I am sure she came back and looked for them!Hopefully I can give them a better chance than in the viv.


----------



## bumbleyjoe

Hey. Just wondering do you think these lil guys pine for each other? Its just that i did have a trio of bearded pygmys and a while ago one of the females died and after that the male wouldnt let the other female out of his sight (he wasnt constantly hasseling her just seemed to want to be near her) Now we have lost the second female leaving the male on his own (no idea how old they were but i believe they were a good age). Now he seems really restless and seems to be wandering around his enclosure as if he is looking for her. He used to spend quite alot of time in the same place but since the second female has gone he is moving around alot more. Any ideas?


----------



## 98burgs

I was wondering if a 30x30x45 exo terra viv would house a trio comfortably? Would I be better off buying the rainforest starter kit or just buying seperate things. Also what exactly do u need to rear Pygmy chams sucsessfuly? Thanx


----------



## Lizard Boy S

Hey has the pygmychameleon.co.uk site gone down? I can't seem to get onto it.


----------



## andy007

Lizard Boy S said:


> Hey has the pygmychameleon.co.uk site gone down? I can't seem to get onto it.


Looks like someone didn't pay, or forgot to pay, their website fee's.


----------



## Lizard Boy S

andy007 said:


> Looks like someone didn't pay, or forgot to pay, their website fee's.


oops not good hope its back up soon was quite useful


----------



## andy007

Lizard Boy S said:


> oops not good hope its back up soon was quite useful


The only problem I could see with the site, is that it was very specific. I don't know if there are that many Pygmy keepers to enable a dedicated forum for them, although it was sometimes quite handy. I found that my questions/posts, went a while before any responses were made.

Its a shame if it has gone, but needs bigging up if it stays


----------



## Lizard Boy S

andy007 said:


> The only problem I could see with the site, is that it was very specific. I don't know if there are that many Pygmy keepers to enable a dedicated forum for them, although it was sometimes quite handy. I found that my questions/posts, went a while before any responses were made.
> 
> Its a shame if it has gone, but needs bigging up if it stays


Yeah I thinks thats quite true and I found it difficult to find information on specific species it tended to be its the same for all species generally which ok maybe true but surely there are differences since they come from different ranges. And I had the same problem with the questions but I was still waiting for an answer.

I know thats contradicting what I said but its useful as in I could see pics of enclosures to see what would be a good idea asnd what was needed.


----------



## andy007

Yeh, I did the same Found some good info on the stickies etc....

Maybe its just an oversight, and it'll be back up soon.


----------



## peterspets

*Bearded Pygmy Chameleon Video On Youtube.*

Yes, I know I sound like Terry Christian!
YouTube - My Bearded Pygmy Chameleons.


----------



## chill435

was cleaning out the viv today and found three eggs laid in the substrate was a nice surprise seen as i didnt even know she was gravid! altho i must have found them too late she had laid them over the heatmat so they had dried and shrivelled up ohwell have to just keep a closer eye on them now


----------



## gary1621

Do they need the heat mat?

What the room temp around their enclosure?

Mine is between 65 and 73 degrees depending if the heating is on, and this is perfect for them.


----------



## chill435

room temp is about 58 - 60 so thought the heatmat would just make sure it stayed warm enough. its then 67 ish inside the viv


----------



## Truffs

Hi,

Sorry if these are stupid questions .... i love chameleons but really dont have the space for another large enclosure but after seeing pics of pygmys i'm really keen to get some, they're so unbelievably cute! Even after looking at loads of info online i cant decide what to get - is one type better than another to keep? Also, as i dont intend to breed them how many should be kept together?

Ideally i prefer to buy from places where i can see what i'm getting but i've not found anywhere local to me that sells pygmys, if i have to buy online it looks like Jungle bugs is the place to get them from?

If theres anything anyone can think of that a pygmy virgin should be told before taking the plunge please let me know, i dont want to make any stupid mistakes at the detriment to their health.

Thanks a lot for any help.
:notworthy:


----------



## Truffs

Bumping up and a few more questions if theres any pygmy keepers out there please...

I've now seen pygmys on sale in a local store, theyre labelled as 'brevs' but from the pics i've been looking at online one looks more like a kenya to me, on the looks side of things i'm personally leaning towards the kenyan, would it be ok to get one of each or should i stick to 2 of the same? 

They also sell a complete exo terra rainforest set up, has anyone used one, are they any good and are they actually complete for use with pygmys or are there any important extras i should look for? 

And just one more question (sorry to be a pain but i always like to get as much info as possible before i get a new addition to the family) what size crickets are best to feed pygmys and how do you actually go about feeding them, ie how do you get the crickets out of the box without ending up with a house full hopping around?!

Thats all my questions - for now anyway! 

Thanks a lot if anyone has any advice for me
:cheers:


----------



## beccawoo

Hey,

Ive got 3 brevs at present and have a spare viv for either more brevs or some kenyans or pitted. Love my chameleons!


----------



## peterspets

*Newborn bearded pygmy chameleon!*

I just found a wee little fella today!I was misting the viv and was just about to rinse a chameleon turd off a leaf at the front when, luckily I took another glimpse at it and realised it was a baby!It was covered in soil so must have just hatched.I have transferred him to a faunarium, nice and damp with twigs etc.I have ordered some fruitfly from ebay and also from my local rep shop so I can feed Fred a.s.a.p. I will get some pics up later.:2thumb:


----------



## peterspets

Link to pictures
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/526841-newly-hatched-bearded-pygmy-chameleon.html


----------



## obie_1

Ive had my three kenyans this week theyre really good to watch.What age do they start showing signs of breeding?I keep and breed rankins and theyres plenty of intereaction from them,Do pygmys show interaction?Cheers


----------



## gary1621

I cant really say i've noticed my two having any interest in each other but they must do because...










































I had two little boys hatch 

We are waiting on one more from this clutch to hatch... and 4 that will be ready in a month or two


----------



## obie_1

Excellent well done.I came home and foud an egg on op of a fake plant unfortunantly it was squished with bit of yellow coming out of it.So think it was infertile,ive only had them for a few days.Can females go lighter in colour as im supposed to have 1.2 trio,the male is lighter in colour all the time and the females are darker but now and again go lighter but only for a short while?


----------



## gary1621

Thanks 

Yeah the females can appear lighter then the males, my female is all ways a very pale olive green/tan colour.
They only really get dark when they are on the ground hunting for food or stressed.

Female chams have been known to just drop eggs and not bury them if they are infertile, maybe she just doesnt know what to do yet. With a 1.2 grouping i'd imagine you'll have buried eggs soon


----------



## peterspets

I found an egg just dropped on the viv floor as well, also a female dug a hole and laid eggs in it and then left it uncovered.I took all of these eggs out of the viv and put on vermiculite, after a week or 2 of looking after them I decided to put them back in the viv so I put them in a hole and covered them up.
I found "Fred" on Saturday by accident and put him in a faunarium.I put some springtails in with him hoping he would eat them.Luckily,:2thumb: I managed to get some fruitfly today (Tuesday) and I have seen him eating so really happy now!(well, apart from the fruitfly escaping everywhere!)


----------



## peterspets

*Compact U.V.*

When I set my viv up I had a compact U.V. in the canopy.I noticed my male hanging from the mesh with his head near the light, he looks as though he is now blind in 1 eye.Just a word of warning, I have taken the U.V. out now and just have a normal bulb in there, the plants seem to be thriving so I do not think they are needed.


----------



## obie_1

Cheers for the advice both.They all seem happy enough at the mo ive seen the females eating but not the male yet however i obviously dont watch em all day.When you say infertile you mean that egg or she may be infertile?Do the female chams lay eggs without mating like other cham species?Also whats the best to use springtails or woodlouse and wheres best to get them from and are they safe to use with eggs in the viv.I was advised not to use uvb by neil at junglebugs so just have a low watt energy saver bulb in,seems ok at the mo.


----------



## peterspets

*Critter keeper from the Range.*

'Ickle Fred, my first Bearded Pygmy Chameleon hatchling is now in his new home!He was unexpected as he hatched in his parents viv on Saturday and so I housed him in a faunarium I had.I got some fruitfly (Hydei) on Tuesday, and saw him eat 1!The flies got out and so I covered the faunarium in a net curtain.I went to the Range today and got a 7 litre critter keeper for him, I sewed some net curtain over the vents on the inside to make it fly proof.Next, I put a layer of hydroleca in the bottom, some weed membrane and then some coco coir.I added some springtails and some almond leaves, small twigs and false plants and he seems to like it!I will post some pictures later.


----------



## peterspets

*A week of events.*

Firstly, 'ickle Fred, the hatchling Bearded Pygmy Chameleon was found on Saturday.He seems to be doing okay at the moment.:2thumb:
My male had gone for a while and sometimes I cannot find him for a while so was not too concerned, after 10 minutes searching found him dead on the viv floor.:gasp:This was on Sunday.He was fine on Saturday and roaming around etc. with no signs of any illness.It is so sad when this happens, I originally got these as pets so (I assumed wrongly!) that I would not be upset when anything happened to any of them like with a dog or a cat.
Now, I have seen a female laying eggs in a hole today, hope she is okay and the eggs hatch!:2thumb:


----------



## bradleymarky

peterspets said:


> Firstly, 'ickle Fred, the hatchling Bearded Pygmy Chameleon was found on Saturday.He seems to be doing okay at the moment.:2thumb:
> My male had gone for a while and sometimes I cannot find him for a while so was not too concerned, after 10 minutes searching found him dead on the viv floor.:gasp:This was on Sunday.He was fine on Saturday and roaming around etc. with no signs of any illness.It is so sad when this happens, I originally got these as pets so (I assumed wrongly!) that I would not be upset when anything happened to any of them like with a dog or a cat.
> Now, I have seen a female laying eggs in a hole today, hope she is okay and the eggs hatch!:2thumb:


how did you go on with the eggs


----------



## nickcradd067

peterspets said:


> A question I keep asking but no reply so far, is it better to spray the chams directly or avoid them, mine do not seem to like it.


Mine dont like being sprayed directly so I spray the viv and leaves and keep my crickets well hydrated and I've never had any problems :2thumb:


----------



## gary1621

Mine dont seem to mind being sprayed, the male actually licks his lips during. I do it very gently though.

The babies are even misted directly too, and touch wood they are fine and seem to like it too.

Got 4 eggs due to hatch sometime this month... and found 7 eggs in a recent enclosure clean up (three dont look all that healthy tho)


----------



## fiergiesreds71

Anyone know someone with Pygmy Chams available?

Thank you


----------



## peterspets

fiergiesreds71 said:


> Anyone know someone with Pygmy Chams available?
> 
> Thank you


try Neil here
Pair of Bearded Pygmy Chameleon - £42.00 : Junglebugs!,, online spider and invert store


----------



## Truffs

Yep, Neil at jungle bugs definitely has some but please dont buy them all lol cos i've been out today and bought an exo terra rainforest set up (30x30x45) so i can order some from him - i'm hoping for a trio of kenyans :2thumb:


----------



## bradleymarky

fiergiesreds71 said:


> Anyone know someone with Pygmy Chams available?
> 
> Thank you


tazjunky is selling 2 males babies, hes in the north east


----------



## coolcroc

Hi guys,

I now have various species available. :2thumb:

www.junglebugs.co.uk


Thanks
Neil


----------



## fiergiesreds71

coolcroc said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I now have various species available. :2thumb:
> 
> www.junglebugs.co.uk
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Neil


Neil,

Thanks, are all yours imported and do you have males and females of each species?

Thank you.


----------



## Truffs

Yay i have my exoterra all set up and ready and my new pygmys should be with me tomorrow - i ordered them today from neil at junglebugs - got to say he was very helpful and i cant wait to welcome my new friends home :2thumb: 

I've gone for a pair to start with and will hopefully add to them when they've settled in and maybe they'll even start to increase on their own in the future!:whistling2: 

Just got to settle on names now lol!


----------



## coolcroc

*Rh Brevicaudatus*


----------



## coolcroc

*Rh Nchisiensis*


----------



## coolcroc

*Rh Kersteni*


----------



## coolcroc

*Rh Aculminatus*


----------



## Rcryora

Hiya I have had 2 kenyan pygmys for about 4-5 months now and im starting to think the female is gravid or just really fat lol Could any one have a look at the pics and tell me what you think?? thanks


----------



## coolcroc

Rcryora said:


> Hiya I have had 2 kenyan pygmys for about 4-5 months now and im starting to think the female is gravid or just really fat lol Could any one have a look at the pics and tell me what you think?? thanks
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> image


 
Hi,

Yeah she looks gravid, keep an eye on her laying some eggs.....

Good Luck

Neil


----------



## jennie1981

i had 2 pygmys bought off a friends local pet shop think they were wild caught. One died within the first week of getting them. I had everything all set up correct right temps etc so not sure what happened. Then a few months down the line my other little pygmy sadly passed away today probably due to old age as i wasnt sure how old they actually were. Its put me off buying any more. Had a really bad start to keeping them / cry


----------



## Rcryora

coolcroc said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yeah she looks gravid, keep an eye on her laying some eggs.....
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> Neil


Thanks Neil, i messed you on your website today asking if you have any kenyans and if you would do me a trio of just girls as i already have a male and wouldnt want them to fight. Thanks


----------



## Truffs

My first lovely pygmys arrived safe and well from Neil today and they are so unbelievably cute! 

They seem to have settled into their new home well already and i had the pleasure and fascination of watching one catch a cricket this evening, it was amazing to see so much concentration on such a small face!

Because of the split hand thing i wanted to go with 'live long' and 'prosper' as names but my kids said that was sad so right now they're being known as Bonnie & Clyde instead! 

These are the first pics taken with my phone so not the best quality but they really are the cutest little things :2thumb:


----------



## Rcryora

There lovley, im hoping neil has got my email as i would love some more  There just soooo interesting to watch and very cute in there little weird way lol


----------



## fiergiesreds71

what chameleons are these if you dont mind me asking - they are gorgeous


----------



## ipreferaflan

Hello guys!
I have two pygmy chams (Rhampholeon brevicaudatus) and my female came to me gravid! They're both captive bred (male is 09, female is 10). I'm currently incubating three tic tacs.

Lovely little animals! So rewarding and I never get tired of watching them eat.

Flan


----------



## ipreferaflan

fiergiesreds71 said:


> what chameleons are these if you dont mind me asking - they are gorgeous


Those above are R. brevicaudatus; Bearded Pygmy Chameleon, Bearded Leaf Chameleon. Probably the most common pygmy.

Here's a picture of my male:


----------



## sizedoesn'tmatter

Hi guys,
I am planning on getting some pygmy chams from Neil and have found this thread incredibly helpful could you just answer a couple of quick questions for me please?

* which are the best custodians or can you use a mixture?

* would custodians damage any eggs?

* which is more successful - trying to remove the eggs or allowing them to develop in the viv?

* how do people manage to keep constant temps. for their eggs during incubation?

* should any of the species be avoided by a beginner?

Thanks in advance : victory:


----------



## Peekaboo

*Pygmys (Brevs)*

We also had 2 females from Neil and have to say his service and help was first class :no1: - the girls arrived safe and sound and we now have a very happy male with 3 females to keep entertained


----------



## Truffs

3 girls to 1 boy - i'm not sure whether to feel happy or sorry for him lol!:lol2:

I've only had my 2 pygmys a few days but they're quite addictive, i already wish i'd got more now - i might have to drop some heavy hints to hubby before xmas (i was going to wait to get my first pygmys for xmas but patience isn't my strong point lol!)


----------



## Peekaboo

Truffs said:


> 3 girls to 1 boy - i'm not sure whether to feel happy or sorry for him lol!:lol2:
> 
> I've only had my 2 pygmys a few days but they're quite addictive, i already wish i'd got more now - i might have to drop some heavy hints to hubby before xmas (i was going to wait to get my first pygmys for xmas but patience isn't my strong point lol!)


LOL - well in his defence one of the girls is old in Pygmy terms as she is well over 2 yrs old - so we got the young girls so that he still had company when she went


----------



## coolcroc

Truffs said:


> 3 girls to 1 boy - i'm not sure whether to feel happy or sorry for him lol!:lol2:
> 
> 
> :lol2: I feel sorry for him.......
> 
> Its great to hear their all settling in ok and that everyone is enjoying them, they really are great little reps.
> 
> Thanks
> Neil


----------



## fiergiesreds71

Today i went to Neils and picked up my first pygmy chameleons. i have to say that he is a first class guy with a superb facility.

He could not have been more helpful and i strongly recommend him.

One quick question:

The clay balls at the bottom of my viv are covered in 1" of water. If one of my females was to lay wold this seep up and saturate the eggs? I am sure i read somewhere that the balls should constantly be in water.

Thanks


----------



## fiergiesreds71

Today i went to Neils and picked up my first pygmy chameleons. i have to say that he is a first class guy with a superb facility.

He could not have been more helpful and i strongly recommend him.


Two quick questions:

The clay balls at the bottom of my viv are covered in 1" of water. If one of my females was to lay wold this seep up and saturate the eggs? I am sure i read somewhere that the balls should constantly be in water.

Also is it absolutely necessary to cover them every night?

Thanks


----------



## Truffs

My pygmy chams are in an exo terra viv (30x30x45) and both seem to enjoy climbing to the top of the viv and doing a 'mission impossible' act of walking upside down on the mesh roof of the viv every now and then! 

Its quite amusing to see, especially when i'm peering into the viv trying to spot them in the plants and they're up on the roof lol! 

Does anyone have pygmys that do this?!


----------



## Rcryora

Truffs said:


> My pygmy chams are in an exo terra viv (30x30x45) and both seem to enjoy climbing to the top of the viv and doing a 'mission impossible' act of walking upside down on the mesh roof of the viv every now and then!
> 
> Its quite amusing to see, especially when i'm peering into the viv trying to spot them in the plants and they're up on the roof lol!
> 
> Does anyone have pygmys that do this?!


Yes i have 3 that do that, i like to tell people i have trained them for the circus lol people have flea cirsus's so i thought i could have a pygmy circus lol


----------



## Demonsnapper

i lost my female other week. just got to wait and see if the eggs hatch onlt 55days togo.


----------



## vogelport

*which one????*

My 13 year old brother wants a pygmy cham for his birthday.
Which one would be best for him?
Also is it true they do not need heat?
My parent's live in a very warm house so if this was the case i think it would be more than ok at room temp.
Thankyou in advance,hope someone can help and i will pass the advice on to my mother! :2thumb:


----------



## coolcroc

vogelport said:


> My 13 year old brother wants a pygmy cham for his birthday.
> Which one would be best for him?
> Also is it true they do not need heat?
> My parent's live in a very warm house so if this was the case i think it would be more than ok at room temp.
> Thankyou in advance,hope someone can help and i will pass the advice on to my mother! :2thumb:


This is one of my caresheets, all the pygmy's can be kept the same way, I would say the best species to start off with are Rh Kersteni because these are pretty hardy.

The Living Jungle​*Pygmy Chameleons*​*Rhampholeon Brevicaudatus*​*Care Sheet*​​*Introduction*
R. Brevicaudatus lives in the low level bushes, grasses and leaf litter of the Rainforest's of coastal Tanzania, East Africa. They are found from sea level to 2000 meters.
They live in large groups in the wild. In captivity it is best to keep them in groups of 6 with 1 dominant male. 
They grow to an approximate length of 2 inches when adult (Females are slightly larger than males).
Telling the sexes apart is easy enough. Males have a lot more colouration around their eyes and their tail is longer in length.
Females are dull in colour and their tail is shorter.

*Captive Care*
It is ok to keep a pair together in a vivarium with vents 15” wide x 10” deep x 15” high.
R. Brevicaudatus requires a naturalistic set-up with a 2-6 inch (Minimum of 2 inch for egg laying) layer of soil or Coconut fibre (Nature-bed etc) substrate, we have found coconut fibre is best as it is very absorbent and sterile so doesn't contain nasty bugs or chemicals. Cover this with dried dead leaves and a few live plants, thin twigs and branches to climb on. Plants suitable for use are mini privet hedge or box hedging. Plants can be left in there pots or planted directly into the soil but I prefer leaving them in the pots which makes cleaning so much easier. Males are territorial and will fight so do not house more than one male in the same enclosure unless it is very large and thickly planted. R. Brevicaudatus are one of the few chameleons that can be kept in small groups.
Daytime temperatures of 65-80F are ideal. A small halogen lamp can be used as a basking lamp, temperatures should be no more than, 80 F max. Night time temperatures can safely drop to 60F with no ill effects.
There is no need to use UVB florescent tubes, they don’t benefit anymore with it, I use a standard energy saving bulb.

They must be sprayed at least once a day to keep the humidity right for them.

When feeding the Chameleons use brown crickets, the black crickets will bite them.
It is important to dust the live food at least twice a week with multi vitamins 


Keep this captive care practice up and they will breed, they breed 3-5 times a year and will lay up to 5 eggs a time.
The eggs are the size of a tic-tac and need to be kept at around 72-78F at these temperatures eggs hatch at around 80 days.

Then the babies must be kept separate for the first couple of weeks so you can monitor their eating, they will only eat pin head sized crickets or fruit flies.

Good luck & let me know how you get on.

​​www.thelivingjungle.com​


----------



## vogelport

thankyou for the info : victory:


----------



## sizedoesn'tmatter

Huzzah!
I am now part of the Pygmy Chameleon Gang! 
I have a pair of Kenyans and a pair of Ulgurus from Neil that arrived on Wednesday and that seem to be doing very well (when I can see them!) 
If they thrive and do well then I'd love to keep further species in the future - they really are something special! :flrt::flrt::flrt:


----------



## sizedoesn'tmatter

Have picked up 2 new species today as I saw them unexpectedly at Kiddy - a pair of blue-eyeds and a pair of beardeds. Lovely :2thumb:


----------



## leeroy1

i've been keeping an eye on this thread for a bit now and have just put in an order with neil - junglebugs for 3 x blue eyed's to go in my zoo med tank i have 

thanks to all who have contributed to this thread which has helped me with my decision 

:2thumb:


----------



## sizedoesn'tmatter

You won't regret it! Fascinating little things!


----------



## leeroy1

Can the pygmy chameleons be heated at a constant 70 degree's??? or do they require a nighttime drop?


----------



## leeroy1

question above asked again : victory:


----------



## River Zora

Hey, I've fallen in love with these little blighters over the last however long and am probably going to get some very soon, but just a few little questions before!-

(Expecting a resounding no) Pygmies can be kept in groups, but can two species be housed in the same viv? AKA, a pair of blue eyes and a pair of kenyans? They have the same care and stuff, but would they have some instinct to compete or be territorial to their own species? Just cause I can't decide which species I want the most is all! 

Which species look most like mini-chameleons? It's difficult to find accurate pictures on the net as they're all bunched together, but which just look like a shrunk chameleon rather than a leaf or a twig? This won't necessarily help my decision, but just want to know!

How much of the chameleon's colour change is still existant in the little guys? Do they change much, or are they more focused on looking like a plant and not something tasty to predators?

Is a 30x30x45 or 45x45x60 exo terra more suitable if I'm planning on keeping a sizable colony? How many could I keep in each, and is too big better than too small etc.

How handlable are they? Will they rap on the door and climb all over you when opened like a beardie, or will they just tolerate you like a tortoise, or is it actively discouraged like Tokays and day geckos?

I think that's it for now!


----------



## River Zora

Bump for today, just cause I want some answers- I don't want to enter the Chameleon world without knowing EVERYTHING!

Also, forgot to ask- what's the lifespan like?

Answers appreciated


----------



## Rcryora

Hiya river zora, im not sure about keping different species together as they can be territorrial but if you like a few species you can have them as they dont take as much room up as a yemen or panther. I would say the bearded pygmy or the kenyan are the most mini look-a-like chameleons, there not as colour full as the yeman ect as they live on the forest floor and low down so dont have to blend in as well so most of the pygmys are brown/dark green. I think 45 x 45 x 45 is big enough of a colony of 5 one male and 4 female (thats what i have). They are handable but i wouldnt advise to do it alot as there only tiny and get stressed easyly. The life span of the pygmys are about 2-3 years old. I hope that answers your questions and welcome to the pygmy world lol


----------



## awh

i have a trio of kenyan pygmy chameleons (cf) how do you know when a female is gravid with my yemen it was easy to see 

also how do you spot the eggs without ripping the viv to bits ?


----------



## peterspets

Not easy! the best way to answer both questions is to watch for her digging.If the conditions are right the eggs will hatch in the viv.I found my first hatchling without knowing any eggs had been laid.


----------



## awh

gutted just found one of the females dead poor thing was eating fine was only watching it catch fruitflies yesterday


----------



## tazjunky

awh said:


> gutted just found one of the females dead poor thing was eating fine was only watching it catch fruitflies yesterday


 
is it the one you think may have been gravid?
if so you could harvest any eggs that she has inside her, i hd to do that once.


----------



## awh

no the one i think is gravid is still there still eating well


----------



## tazjunky

peterspets said:


> I have ordered some coco panel for my next viv, any thoughts on this?


Just ordered Coco background for my new set-up, cant e bothered with the poly backgrounds any more, far too much hassle, plus I have some climbing plants that i want to cover it with.



peterspets said:


> What does everybody do in hot weather to cool there vivs?


Lucky reptile do fan that you can placed directly on to the top of the vivs that blow down into them! quite cheap as well


----------



## tazjunky

leeroy1 said:


> Can the pygmy chameleons be heated at a constant 70 degree's??? or do they require a nighttime drop?


Im sure blue eyeds neeed the drop in temp at night


----------



## tazjunky

leeroy1 said:


> have just put in an order with neil - junglebugs for 3 x blue eyed's to go in my zoo med tank i have


 
Did you get your Blue Eyeds? how are they settling in?


----------



## kopstar

Here's the male on walkabout..


----------



## tazjunky

Nice looking fella that little one!

Just an update, I know that people have some issues with Chams dying soon after getting them and iv looked into things over www.pygmychameleon.co.uk 

There is a lab that will perform faecal tests to confirm the presence of Parasites(such as worms) and Coccidia for £12+VAT - all you have to do is collect some faces from each of the chams over a few days and send it off to them and they email you with the results. and £12 isnt all that much if it keeps your chams alive.

Just looking into what treatment can be given to pygmy in cases where parasites/coccidia are found.

I read some interesting findings on the use of something called Reptaid this morning. it will apparently sort problems such as parasites and coccidia. has anyone ever used it?


----------



## Reptile&Amphibian-Keeper

I have 1 Bearded Pygmy Chameleon and her names Spit, had her for about 2 months and they are very nice lizards to watch. I'll try add a picture of her :2thumb:


----------



## herper147

Hi will be getting my two bearded pygmy chams soon and want an adult male and female pair but want to keep them together?
Can they over breed as many other chams do or are they safe to keep together?

Also do you need to have the drainage balls


----------



## soooooz

Hi all, I've just read this entire thread (think I deserve a little something for that!) and wondered if anybody could identify these two for me, please?

Thanking you in advance





































The colours in the last three photos are a little paler than true life, by the way.


----------



## tazjunky

these are both Bearded Pygmy chameleons - male and female
I have to say you need to have the one with sunken eyes (the Male) checked by a vet as it is extremely dehydrated. sorry to say but Sunken eyes in pygmy chams is a bad sign in my experience. good luck


----------



## soooooz

Thank you for the ID. Unfortunately I thought something was up with it when I first saw it, it felt (and looked) very, very skinny. Me being a sucker for the rejects, I thought I'd take them on and see if I could do anything or at least keep it better than it was... we'll see, eh?!


----------



## tazjunky

Sorry for the confusion, I was looking originally on my iphone and he looked like a she. but im sure the dehydrate one is a male.

Might I suggest that you seperate the 2. dehydration like this is usually caused by some parasitic infection and is easily spread. sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you may as well try and protect the female from infection if you can.


----------



## soooooz

No worries, and thanks for the advice I'll separate them tomorrow. Is there anything that can be done specifically for the dehydration?


----------



## tazjunky

Sorry to say that once the dehydration sets in to the point where eyes sink in, it usually doesnt end well. that has always been my experience in this type of situation. but keep your fingers crossed and mist the male with warm water, it might encourage him to drink. you could also try to use the electrolyte water supplement that Exo-terra sell? never tried it but I guess it couldnt hurt.


----------



## soooooz

Oh dear =( We shall have to see then, i will have a look for that stuff, and somebody else mentioned Avipro Plus.

Thanks again =)


----------



## totalwar13

hi i really like little lizerd's there so cute finking of geting some pygm's there amaszing
i have 3 gargole's (got 2 yesterday from rack shack and 1 baby cresty)
do i need to set an eco sytem up in the tank woodlice ex. where is the best place to get them????


----------



## .:KayLee:.

totalwar13 said:


> hi i really like little lizerd's there so cute finking of geting some pygm's there amaszing
> i have 3 gargole's (got 2 yesterday from rack shack and 1 baby cresty)
> do i need to set an eco sytem up in the tank woodlice ex. where is the best place to get them????


Hey again, did you get the feeding of your original Gargoyle sorted out? You've just stated you've gotten 3 more reptiles...and although its great to get new ones but maybe...slow down a little? Make sure your husbandry is good with the first lot before impulse buying a load more, no matter how addictive they can be. I'm not meaning to be rude at all, please dont take offence.


----------



## soooooz

Just checked on Herm (sunken eyes) and one eye is quite 'normal' but the eye that I photographed is still sunken. I wish now that I'd checked both last night rather than just assuming both were the same.


----------



## totalwar13

.:KayLee:. said:


> Hey again, did you get the feeding of your original Gargoyle sorted out? You've just stated you've gotten 3 more reptiles...and although its great to get new ones but maybe...slow down a little? Make sure your husbandry is good with the first lot before impulse buying a load more, no matter how addictive they can be. I'm not meaning to be rude at all, please dont take offence.


 yeah got repashy from shack rack and orderd more from stickfeet (got 8 oz of base and 4 oz cherry 4 oz banana) should be here in the next few days)
the temp is 18c-24 i spray them twice a day i dust there cricket's/locast with cal i have all the gar's sparated in case thay fight going to get a few more crestys to put in with my uther 1 befor i get any fing els i was finking a pygmy in a few mounths want to get info frist, 
no offence tanken 
ill get some pic's of them and my set up on soon wich section should i put it in 
thank


----------



## .:KayLee:.

totalwar13 said:


> yeah got repashy from shack rack and orderd more from stickfeet (got 8 oz of base and 4 oz cherry 4 oz banana) should be here in the next few days)
> the temp is 18c-24 i spray them twice a day i dust there cricket's/locast with cal i have all the gar's sparated in case thay fight going to get a few more crestys to put in with my uther 1 befor i get any fing els i was finking a pygmy in a few mounths want to get info frist,
> no offence tanken
> ill get some pic's of them and my set up on soon wich section should i put it in
> thank


Thats really good to hear, well done and congrats on your new reps. Let me know how well the cherry repashy is taken too, I happen to love cherry but not a clue whether the geckos are as keen and Id love to try that flavour on them next. : victory:


----------



## totalwar13

.:KayLee:. said:


> Thats really good to hear, well done and congrats on your new reps. Let me know how well the cherry repashy is taken too, I happen to love cherry but not a clue whether the geckos are as keen and Id love to try that flavour on them next. : victory:


 yeah will let you know should be here in a few days


----------



## kopstar

Can anyone recommend a liquid vitamin and mineral supplement that’s ok for regular use in place of dusting? I’m looking for better control of supplement dosage than you get through dusting which, I feel is a bit hit and miss. It doesn’t cause a problem with larger reptiles but I think it may have more of an affect with pygmies to get the dosage wrong, especially overdose.
I used to use Reptisol many years ago and was wondering if there’s something else out there that people use?


----------



## soooooz

Okay, I am well aware that different species should not generally be mixed, but (without wishing to contradict what I've just said!) does this go for different species of pygmy chameleons, too, or would a female kenyan live okay with a male and female bearded?

Thanks =)


----------



## tazjunky

There are some people that frown against mixing different species, but to be honest, there are people that are selling Kenyans and Beardeds and when you put them next to each other they are exactly the same. I have yet to see a true Kenyan pygmy cham over here in the UK. but going back to your original question, one of the breeders from this site says he keeps all of his together bearded/kenyans.


----------



## Sparklepire

Love this picture. Just wish it wasn't taken with a phone camera... xD


----------



## samurai

Sparklepire said:


> image
> 
> Love this picture. Just wish it wasn't taken with a phone camera... xD


He he that would make a good pic for a caption competion


----------



## smiler76

*Rhampholeon kerstenni.... my first pair!*

hey am a newbie to here and just bought my first pair of kenyan pygmys.. i could sit there all night and watch them!.there don't seem to be alot in the way of care sheets for them tho so i am hoping you guys will be able to give some general advice ?..:notworthy:


----------



## Harry_NW

My male Rhampholeon Acuminatus is very active wandering around all day but he seems to have a white area above his left eye and the eye appears to be swolen - not sure if he's just shedding or something more sinister - any ideas?


----------



## Sparklepire

samurai said:


> He he that would make a good pic for a caption competion


Aye, I thought so too. It was one of those lucky shots. :lol2:


----------



## samurai

While i've been researching these little animals i've noticed a few sources of info say they can die suddenly without obvious warning! Can anyone tell me if this is more linked to WC P.chams or can this happen with CB easily too? or is just an exageration? Also i've seen some bearded pygmys in a local shop and they seem to be very still and hiding most of the time, they look healthy to me but i was just wondering if they are pretty inactive pets or are they fairly active?

smiler76 i've found this site very helpful and i think it was recommended by others on here :2thumb:
Reference


----------



## smiler76

thanks for the link i will have a good read up.... 
my female seems to be hole digging and covering them back up not sure if she is laying eggs as i dont want to disturb her! :gasp:


----------



## smiler76

*really useful !*

having just had a look around the link you suggested i have learnt some very useful information on my two new little friends , so thank you for that :2thumb:


----------



## samurai

smiler76 said:


> having just had a look around the link you suggested i have learnt some very useful information on my two new little friends , so thank you for that :2thumb:


Glad to help  yay


----------



## HannahM

Has anyone or does any one no of pygmy chameleons for sale in medway,kent area?


----------



## Danul

*Wanted*

Looking for a cb10/11 male and female pygmy chameleon pls mail me if you have any for sale
Dan


----------



## coolcroc

I have them available again.

Neil


----------



## jonnyboy2000

anyone know wear i can get some pygmies none instock with jungle bugs atm and really hoping to get some soon.

prefer green pygmy chameleons but open to other species.


----------



## coolcroc

Has anyone read the article in the Practical reptile keeper mag, this month?

If so, what do you think? it would be great to hear some feed back.

Neil


----------



## rudders

Hi, I have read the article and found it very interesting and am really looking forward to the next on breeding these little stunners.I would say the only problem is the timming on the article,you are going to generate great interest and rightly so but they are out of stock in many places.Hope it really puts these to the top of many wish lists as they are very under rated.Good work:2thumb:


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> I have them available again.
> 
> Neil


Hi Neil, how much ? Looking for a quad 1m 3f. :mf_dribble:


----------



## coolcroc

rudders said:


> Hi, I have read the article and found it very interesting and am really looking forward to the next on breeding these little stunners.I would say the only problem is the timming on the article,you are going to generate great interest and rightly so but they are out of stock in many places.Hope it really puts these to the top of many wish lists as they are very under rated.Good work:2thumb:
> image


 
Thanks for the comments, glad people are enjoying it. As for there not being any pygmy chams available, I see this as a good thing, no impulse buying! It is very important that the terrarium is set up correctly, if people start now on setting up a viv with live plants and eco systems, by the time the pygmy chams are ready to be sold in about a 3-4 weeks time all will be perfect for them.

I am going to put up a step by step guide on what needs to be done for setting up the perfect terrarium, I will also include pics, I will get this done over this weekend, I might even make a video and put it on youtube.

Neil


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> Hi Neil, how much ? Looking for a quad 1m 3f. :mf_dribble:


 
Hi m8,

I will have some available in about 3 weeks, a quad will be £100.00

Neil


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> Hi m8,
> 
> I will have some available in about 3 weeks, a quad will be £100.00
> 
> Neil


Brilliant :2thumb: Planted up my viv yesterday so timing is perfect.
Will they be ok together as a group or is the male related so needs to be seperate ?
What type and do you deliver, if so how much ?


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> Brilliant :2thumb: Planted up my viv yesterday so timing is perfect.
> Will they be ok together as a group or is the male related so needs to be seperate ?
> What type and do you deliver, if so how much ?


Great, post some pics of your planted viv, there seems to be a few people getting more interested in living terrariums, be great if you can, I will be posting some pics of mine over the weekend.

Can i recomend you add a Bioactive Eco System, this will complete your terrarium and take care of it for you. Bioactive Eco system :2thumb:

I will have unrelated groups available, they will be Rh Brevicaudatus and Rh Kerstenii.

Neil


----------



## axvy69

Hope these help

I've already got springtails in there and am getting some ghost woodlice too. 
Should be getting oak leaves delivered from Dartfrog in the next couple of days.
What is in the Bioactive Eco System ? Product description doesn't really say.

What is the differences between Rh Brevicaudatus and Rh Kerstenii, tried looking
but all I could find was R Brevicaudatus being bearded pygmies and I think Kerstenii being Kenyan, do you have pics of the two species, I tried google but it mixed them up (typical). 
What's the difference beween Rhampoleon and Rieppeleon ?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to be sure.


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> Hope these help
> [URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0474.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0473.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0472.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0471.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0470.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0469.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0468.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0467.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0466.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0465.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0464.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0462.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_DSCF0475.jpg"]image[/URL]
> I've already got springtails in there and am getting some ghost woodlice too.
> Should be getting oak leaves delivered from Dartfrog in the next couple of days.
> What is in the Bioactive Eco System ? Product description doesn't really say.
> 
> What is the differences between Rh Brevicaudatus and Rh Kerstenii, tried looking
> but all I could find was R Brevicaudatus being bearded pygmies and I think Kerstenii being Kenyan, do you have pics of the two species, I tried google but it mixed them up (typical).
> What's the difference beween Rhampoleon and Rieppeleon ?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, just want to be sure.


 
Viv looks good, you could do with a few more plants...

I will post some pics up of the different species at the weekend when i put some up of my vivs.

The difference between Rieppeleon and Rhamphleon is this:

Rieppeleon brevicaudatus, kersteni & brachyapus are the only species found at low altitude and able to stand warmer temps.

Rhampholeon brevicaudatus, kerstenii (confusing i know but this is a sub species that live at a much higher altitude), viridis, spinosum & temporalis, these all live at a higher altitude.

Then there is Rhampholeon rhinodigitum nchisiensis, uluguruensis & acuminatus, these all live at a high altitude as well as having a finger like nose on there face.

I hope this helps...

Neil


----------



## axvy69

I've also got a Tradescantia albiflora coming from Dartfrog, that will cover the coco sides. 
You say they like high altitudes, does that mean they're not floor dwellers like the others or is it just a temperature thing ?
Also, you haven't said if you would deliver and if there's a charge if you do.


----------



## jonnyboy2000

axvy69 said:


> I've also got a Tradescantia albiflora coming from Dartfrog, that will cover the coco sides.
> You say they like high altitudes, does that mean they're not floor dwellers like the others or is it just a temperature thing ?
> Also, you haven't said if you would deliver and if there's a charge if you do.


he does deliver its £20.00 im ordering some pygmys myself soon


----------



## Iwantone

coolcroc said:


> Has anyone read the article in the Practical reptile keeper mag, this month?
> 
> If so, what do you think? it would be great to hear some feed back.
> 
> Neil


I've just ordered my copy online so I'll let you know when it arrives. :2thumb:

I am eagerly waiting for my pygmy eggs to hatch.


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> Viv looks good, you could do with a few more plants...
> I will post some pics up of the different species at the weekend when i put some up of my vivs.
> 
> Neil


Forgot that I sowed some dill and nasturtium seeds in the middle, it's only that they've just started sprouting that I've remembered.

Can't wait to see your pics


----------



## kopstar

coolcroc said:


> Has anyone read the article in the Practical reptile keeper mag, this month?
> 
> If so, what do you think? it would be great to hear some feed back.
> 
> Neil


I don't normally buy PRK unless there's something specific that I'm interested in so I was glad to pick up a copy this weekend for your article. Really enjoyed the read with some great insights into keeping these fascinating creatures. I'm looking forward to next month's installment.

I will be looking for another pair at some point this year having lost my two after a year but I've maintained the set up with the bioactive substrate.


----------



## snowdragon

*read it*

hi i read it yes it was great very good info 
would have loved to see more pics on viv set ups though.
scot


----------



## snowdragon

*Loving the thread*

Hi guys 
just thought i just say iam loving reading this thread thanks for setting it up ,
At moment i have panther chams and yemen , i sooooo want some little ones i got loads of spare vivs just waiting for males and females hehehe . Ijust love chams lol .also anychance of seeing peoples chams viv pics so i can get idea that i will be getting it right i got lots of real plant cuttings potted up as we speak . so can not wait ?
how many can you keep to one viv ? anybody selling theirs or selling any contact me . thanks 
scot x


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> I will post some pics up of the different species at the weekend when i put some up of my vivs
> 
> Neil


Hi Neil,

Can't wait to see pics of my potential group. :mf_dribble:


----------



## karlh

coolcroc said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I now have various species available. :2thumb:
> 
> www.junglebugs.co.uk
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Neil


Hi mate I'll call in for a brew one day when your free, maybe being the little 'un.

Great article BTW :2thumb:


----------



## coolcroc

*General Care of Pygmy Chameleons*

*Enclosure*

In general Pygmy chameleons are best suited to glass enclosures. The reason for this being that it is easier to maintain the high humidity that is needed. They also help maintain temperature gradients, which would be very difficult in an all wire, mesh cage. As a general rule, more room is better when it comes to housing Pygmy chameleons.

30 x 30 x 30 cm 12" x 12" x 12" (WxDxH) = 2
30 x 30 x 45 cm 12" x 12" x 18" (WxDxH) = 3
45 x 45 x 45 cm 18" x 18" x 18" (WxDxH) = 4
45 x 45 x 60 cm 18" x 18" x 24" (WxDxH) = 5
60 x 45 x 45 cm 24" x 18" x 18" (WxDxH) = 5
60 x 45 x 60 cm 24" x 18" x 24" (WxDxH) = 6

Some people say that more pygmy can be placed in the terrarium sizes above, but once you have placed your substrate, plants, decoration etc, you will already have lost around 20% of the original enclosure space.

*How to set up your terrarium*

An important part in the husbandry of pygmy chameleons is the fact that they need to have high humidity. This results in the enclosure needing to be misted 2-3 times a day. To prevent water logging of the soil, it is a good idea to have a drainage layer at the bottom of the enclosure. The common drainage layers used by keepers are Hydroleca clay balls or Lucky Reptile’s Hydro-Drain. Both do the same job and absorb excess moisture. It is common to have between 1-2 inches of drainage layer. On top of this is placed some weed mesh. This prevents the soil layer from mixing in with the drainage layer after it becomes wet. Lucky Reptile have their own version of this separating layer called Hydro-Fleece but I have found this to be more expensive and does not necessarily do a better job than normal weed mesh which you can pick up for next to nothing. Once your drainage layer and weed mesh are in place, its time to place your substrate.

Most keepers use CoCo Noir soil, which is readily available in most pet stores. It comes in the form of a brick that needs to be soaked for 30 minutes and produces around 9liters of soil per brick.



30 x 30 x 30 cm 12" x 12" x 12" (WxDxH) = 1 brick
30 x 30 x 45 cm 12" x 12" x 18" (WxDxH) = 1 brick
45 x 45 x 45 cm 18" x 18" x 18" (WxDxH) = 2 bricks
45 x 45 x 60 cm 18" x 18" x 24" (WxDxH) = 2 bricks
60 x 45 x 45 cm 24" x 18" x 18" (WxDxH) = 3 bricks
60 x 45 x 60 cm 24" x 18" x 24" (WxDxH) = 3 bricks

This is how the floor of the enclosure should look once you have it set up in the correct way.










*Lighting*

This is a common area of discussion amongst Pygmy owners as there is much debate over the use of UVB lighting. It is hypothesised that pygmy chameleons no longer utilise UVB in the metabolism of Vitamin D/Calcium given the fact that most pygmy are found on the forest floors under dense leafy canopies of the tree tops. However there must still be some chance that the suns rays get through right?

A lot of trial and error has already gone into the use of UVB lighting in pygmy enclosures. A lot of problems have occurred in the past with pygmy chameleons dying in enclosures that did not use UVB and those that did use UVB have lived long and happy lives. That isn’t to say that UVB will be the only factor in your pygmy having great health. Good diet and supplementation is of equal importance.

Most users tend to use a combination of lighting, but then a small minority only use a single light source. Some use no lighting at all!
Commonly though, Pygmy chameleon keepers have a combination of 2% and 5% UV lighting.

2% - has high levels of UVA needed for general health and sexual development.
5% - generous levels of UVB

In general lights should be on for between 9-12 hours a day. These are best set to come on with the use of a timer so that a regular day/night cycle is maintained.

*Decoration*

This is the most important part of setting up any terrarium. Good husbandry will ensure that you pygmy chameleons live happy lives and breed successfully with minimal problems. As most pygmy like to stay at low levels near the forest floors in their native environments you, you should aim to re-create something that mimics this.

*Background*

Some people choose not to use one, others like the foam backgrounds that come with a lot of glass enclosures, some like coco panel. I tried to use the foam backing that came with my Exo-Terra when I first got pygmy, but found it to be a pain. Not only can crickets get behind the backing and become very noisy at night time, if they died behind the backing, then it got a bit smelly to say the least!

Instead of using the foam backing I tend to use Coco Fibre Panel. This is basically coco fibre that is woven together to form a mat, which can be easily cut.










It can then be stuck in place on the back of the enclosure using some silicone and acts as a background. It can also be placed on to the sides of the enclosure as well. If you have multiple enclosures, the site of other pygmy (males) may cause stress so this helps to reduce that risk. Coco fibre backgrounds also have the advantage that if you are using natural plants in the enclosure, the mat will act as a substrate to climbers and plants will take hold in it. (Great for Pothos)










I find its best to leave a small gap between the bottom of the coco panel and the substrate. This helps avoid the coco panel becoming saturated with water and prevents mould. It also helps keep your crickets at the bottom of the enclosure instead of them escaping through the top! I also leave a gap between the top of the coco panel and the roof of the enclosure.

*Plants*

Plants are what will make the bulk of the decoration in your enclosure so it’s a good idea to think about the way you want it to look and have an idea of some of the plants you might want to include. Its important if you are using live plants that you make sure that the plant is non-toxic to chameleons. It might seem silly as you are probably thinking that pygmy chameleons don’t eat plants right? Well for the most part you would be right thinking that, but Crickets eat anything! And as Pygmy are next up in the food chain, whatever the cricket eats, the pygmy eats! So make sure that all plants are from the safe list. Below is a list of plants that are known to be safe to chameleons in general.

Abelia
African Daisy
Sweet Alysum
Asperagus Fern



Baby's Tears
Bird's Nest Fern
Boston Fern 



Bouganville
Bridal Veil
Bromeliads
Caladium
Camellia
Chamomile
Corn Plant
Corn Flower
Draceana
Dwarf Banana Plant
Emerald Ripple
Eugenia
Fuschia
Geranuim
Hawaiian Schefflera/Brassaia Arboricola (Beautiful plant, grows upwards, gets very full, Solid Leaves.)
Hen and Chicks Succulent
Hibiscus
Hoya
Iceplant
Impatients
Japenes Aralia
Jade
Jasmine
Kangaroo vine



Lavender
Mother of Pearl
Natal Plum
Painted Nettle
Mini Palms



Pampas Grass
Parlor Palm
Perperomia
Philodendron species
Phoenix
Purple Velvet
Pelia
Pink Polka Dot
Ponytail Plant
Pothos (#1 Choice, easy to maintain & Hard to kill. Grows well!!)



Spider Plant (Do not do well with high humidity..)
Staghorn Fern
Swedish Ivy
Tree Mallow
Umbrella Plant
Wandering Jew



Warneckii
Wax Plant
Zebra Plant
Zinnias

So with a few variety of plants decide roughly where you want to have them in the enclosure.










When you know roughly where you want to put the plants, you then need to prepare them ready for permanent placement in the enclosure. As many stores spray the plants with insecticides, it is very important to wash the plant thoroughly. The best way is to fill a wash basin with some washing liquid and warm water, and hold the plant upside down submerged in the water. Give it a gentle clean by moving the plant through the water. Once you have done this then you need to rinse with fresh water.

Now you need to remove all the soil that the plant sits in. this is to remove any bugs and fertilizers that may cause your new pygmy harm. Rinse off all the old soil. Now you have 2 choices:

1) Re-pot the plant and bury the pot into the substrate
2) Plant directly into the substrate

Everyone is different and I have tried both methods, but found that keeping plants in pots is far easier when it comes to cleaning out the enclosures.

Some plants can be separated when you are cleaning off the roots and what started off as 1 plant can easily become several. This was the case with a Pothos plant that I bought. It is now 8 separate plants that line the back of my enclosure. This plant also has the advantage that cuttings can be taken from it very easily. Plastic plants are always another option if you decide you don’t want to go down the real plant route. These are easy to remove and clean and most have small branches that are ideal for little pygmy hands.

I use a mixture of both plastic and real plants.










*Twigs/Branches*

Pygmy love to climb and will happily sit for hours perched on one particular branch waiting for its prey to come along. Its really important to have some vertical branches and some horizontal highways so use as many thin twigs and branches as you can find.










If using twigs and branches from outside, be sure to give them a really good clean before hand. Give them a good scrub with a nailbrush and running warm water. You can sterilize them by putting them into the oven on full heat for 15minutes – but make sure you have them real wet beforehand otherwise they will burn

*Leaf Litter*

Pygmy love to hunt in the leaf litter that is found on the forest floors in their natural habitat. It will also add an extra dimension to your enclosure. You can buy bags of dried leaves from some online retailers.










*Moss*
Forest moss is very easy to come buy. You might be able to source live moss from garden centres or from online suppliers. Most keepers tend to use dried moss that you add water to make up the amount required.










Moss has been proven to be slightly acidic and helps reduce mould/fungus in enclosures. Some pygmy have been known to lay eggs in moss, possibly for this reason. It is also good for maintaining moisture and is good for keeping up humidity levels.

*Custodians*
These are the clean up crew for your enclosure and eat most of the waste that can accumulate such as dead plant matter/faeces.

*Tropical Springtail: *










These little creatures only measure a few mm at the most but breed like wildfire. There are excellent at getting rid of any faeces that you may miss when spot cleaning your enclosure.

*Tropical Woodlice:*










Tropical woodlice are great at eating all decaying plant matter and dead crickets.

*Temperature and Humidity*

As the different species of Pygmy Chameleons originate from different part of the African continent and can be found at different altitudes, temperatures for keeping them vary.

Below is a table illustrating the relevant temperatures and humidity required by some of the most common pygmy chameleons available.



SpeciesAverageTemp MaxTemp LowTemp HumidityR. Brevicaudatus70-75F78F60F80-90%R.Kerstenii70-75F78F60F80-90%R.Nchisiensis55-66F72F50F?R.Ulugurensis70-75F78F60F80-90%

From previous, for those keepers using an Exo-Terra terrarium and compact hood, average temperatures of around 70F is easily achievable without the need for extra heating. However in cool climates where ambient temperature is significantly lower than 70F using the compact canopy, a small basking light can be used. This should be used in conjunction with an appropriate dimming thermostat to maintain a constant temperature.

Temperature and Humidity need to be monitored – to do this invest in a digital Thermometer and Hygrometer. If you have an Exo-terra terrarium, their own brand thermometers/hygrometers are ideal as these can be incorporated into the light canopy. The analogue temperature and humidity gauges are not as reliable as the digital kind may give you false readings. Exo-terra makes a combined Thermo/Hygrometer, which cuts down on the number of wires that would be visible in the terrarium. If you decide to use this option, remember that you will need to place the sensor at the bottom of the enclosure to monitor the humidity levels accurately. This will result in you only being able to monitor the temps at the bottom of the enclosure. This isn’t a problem though, as before my pygmy moved into the enclosure, I monitored the temps for a week at the top and a week at the bottom and found that there was only a 4-degree difference and I have a 60x45x60cm terrarium. If you are using a smaller sized terrarium, you will have a smaller temperature difference between the top and bottom of the enclosure.

Humidity is best maintained by misting the enclosure 2-3 a day. This can be done with a simple hand pump, but these tend to spray out large sized water drops which your pygmy will not thank you for if it hits them directly.



A pump spray bottle works brilliantly as these can be adjusted to deliver very fine water spray and its less likely to give you cramp in your hand!

It is best to use water that contains no chlorine, which most tap waters do. There are supplements that are available that can remove chlorine and other harmful elements. Exo-Terra has 2 water supplements called Aquatize and Calcimize. Some keepers just use boiled water that is left to cool for 24 hours. Over this time any chlorine particles have been lost and the water is safe to use.

From past experience, we have found that using natural plants has helped to maintain excellent levels of humidity through out the day, and water droplets tend to stick for longer meaning you know that you pygmy will have the opportunity to drink.
Feeding/Supplementation

Most keepers tend to find that their pygmy have individual tastes when it comes to food. Primarily the staple diet of Pygmy chameleons is Crickets. These should be no bigger than about 7mm in length otherwise these will be too big for pygmy to eat. Below is a list of the common feeders available.

1) Crickets – 7mm or ¼ inch
2) Wax worms (very fatty and should only be used as treats, but also may be too big)
3) Mini Mealworms – have been used successfully by some keepers, however the hard shell of these may cause impaction if eaten in big quantities. Mealworms also bite! One keeper found that his female had been eaten by mealworms whilst laying eggs.
4) Small Hatchling Locusts – good feeders but will destroy all real plants!
5) Fruit flies – Small flightless flies

Most keepers tend to feed their Pygmy chameleons every other day and give between 3-5 crickets per pygmy.

Its important to realise that good nutrition for the feeders is important for pygmy chameleon health. All feeders should be gut loaded appropriately so that that natural vitamins and minerals an be passed on to your pygmy. Crickets can easily be gut loaded using slices of carrots, broccoli, potato etc. There are foods that are available specifically to feed crickets and these contain a lot of vitamins and minerals that are important both for cricket and Pygmy chameleon health.

Calcium and vitamin supplementation is also needed. Calcium is extremely important for chameleons especially females that are breeding as the calcium is required for egg formation. It is also important to maintain strong healthy bones.

Most keepers typically dust each feed with calcium powder. Simply get a small amount of calcium powder and sprinkle it onto the feeders and lightly coat them so that they look pale. Its important not to over do it with pygmy as they are extremely small and don’t need a lot.

*Vitamin supplements *

are good to use once or twice a month. If you are correctly gut loading the feeders then you will already be supplying your Pygmy chameleons with a lot of the vitamins that they require. As with the calcium powder only a small amount is needed. This can be mixed in with the calcium powder when you need to use it.

The big debate is whether or not Pygmy Chameleons utilise Vitamin D3, which is important for true chameleons to be able to metabolise calcium. Vitamin D3 is usually found naturally in sun light and in the wild true chameleons bask in the sun whenever they can. As Pygmy chameleons tend to be forest floor dwellers, it is a theory that they no longer need Vitamin D3 for calcium metabolism. This is sometimes a confusing area for new pygmy keepers as most are left wondering do you use a supplement with or without Vitamin D3?

Given that most keepers now tend to use a 5% UVB bulb, If Pygmy chameleons do utilise Vit D3, they will probably be able to get it from the light. But as this is an area of some debate, vitamin supplements can be found with and without Vit D3 – the choice of which to use is yours.


----------



## coolcroc

SupplementFrequencyCalciumDust every feedVitamins/Minerals
Nutrobol
Zoo Med Reptivite1-2 monthly

Although earlier we mentioned that Custodians do a lot of the cleaning work, it is a good idea to spot clean your Pygmy Chameleons enclosure on a daily basis. This is to remove any large visible faeces and dead crickets. If these are left in the enclosure, it may cause disease and put your pygmy at risk.

*Sexing*

This is probably the main question that always gets asked within the forums but in general its quite easy to distinguish males from females.

*Males:*

Tend to be a lot thinner, have dorsal rides and display more colouration than females. Males usually have longer tails.












*Females:*

Tend to be rounder, they don’t have prominent dorsal ridges, have smaller tails and tend to be duller in coloration and patterning.






























*Breeding*

Breeding usually occurs between 3-5 times a year if you have your enclosure set-up with the correct conditions. Mating is usually initiated and the male may display stripy colouration along the length of his body to try to entice a female to mate. Usually eye turrets are very prominent in their colouration like below.










This male was one of mine and it was very obvious to me when mating was going to occur – see how the eyes turrets are displaying vivid cross shape patterning along with horizontal striping.

This picture doesn’t do the colouration any justice, but his legs used to become bright orange. This how he used to look normally.










Mating usually occurs from anything from 5 minutes to 30 minutes. You may catch the pygmy in the process. Egg production usually takes around 30 days from the time of mating. In this time calcium supplementation is very important as it will ensure good eggshell formation.

The female when ready to lay, may spend some time on the floor of the terrarium searching around the soil and may even dig some test holes to check the conditions of it making sure that she has picked the right place to lay.










Once the correct place has been found, the female will lay each of the eggs in turn and position them correctly before covering them over with soil. During the laying process should you be lucky enough to see it, try not to stress the female out by towering over the enclosure. It is best to leave her to finish the laying process in peace, as if stressed, the female may not lay all of the eggs. If this happens and she feels threatened, she may retain the eggs inside her indefinitely. If this happens the female may become what is known as egg bound. This is when ultimately if she does not lay them, the eggs continue to grow inside of her and as a consequence the eggs draw in water from the female and dehydrate her. The eggs in turn become too big to be laid and result in the death of the female.










Eggs are very easy to recognise as they look like little tic-tacs. Most will be buried roughly 2-3 inches below the surface of the soil. It takes between 60-90 days for eggs to hatch.

After eggs are successfully laid there are 2 options available to incubate them:

1) Leave them in the enclosure to hatch naturally
2) Remove the eggs and incubate them artificially

If you plan on leaving the eggs in the main enclosure – Keep a look out for some tiny chameleons! They tend to climb to the highest spots once they have hatched so that they can survey their new surroundings.

If you plan to remove eggs and incubate them artificially, it is best to use Vermiculite as the substrate to keep the eggs in. Vermiculite has good antifungal and anti-mould properties and can be kept moist with no problems at all.

A simple plastic container can be used to keep the eggs in through out incubation. To prepare the vermiculite, really give it a good soak in de-chlorinated water. Then squeeze out as much of the moisture as you can. Then place a good layer of vermiculite into the tub. You want it at least 1 inch thick.

Then carefully make an indentation in the vermiculite with the end of your finger. Do this for the number of eggs you want to incubate.

With the vermiculite prepared you can now remove any eggs that you want to incubate from the main enclosure. It is extremely important to make sure that you keep the eggs in the same position whilst you are moving from one place to another as any forming foetus inside the eggs will be positioned in a certain way so as not to drown in the egg contents. Failing to keep the egg the same way as you find it will probably result in the unborn foetus dying.

Place eggs of the eggs into the indentations within the vermiculite and gently make sure that the eggs are ¾ covered leaving the top of them exposed to the air.










Make a few holes in the lid of the plastic container and place it on to cover the eggs. Now put the container in a safe place like a wardrobe and wait.......
Every week or so, check on the eggs and make sure that the vermiculite is slightly damp still, if it feels too dry, add a few drops of water to each corner of the container/ this helps keep the conditions right for the eggs to grow. If it is too dry, the eggs will dry up . on the flip side if its too wet, the eggs will take on too much water. Either way both will result in bad eggs.

You will know that your conditions are right as you will see the eggs beginning to grow.

When its time for the eggs to hatch, they start to become translucent and you may be able to see inside the egg to an extent. The eggs may also develop beads of sweat on their surface. When the baby pygmy chameleon is ready to hatch it will use its egg tooth to make a slit in one end of the egg (the egg is then said to have “pipped”) and hatching begins.

This can take anything up to 24hours.

Usually if you have a clutch of eggs together they will all hatch within a few hours/days of each other.










Each hatchling will be roughly 2cm long. It’s important to keep the humidity up with the babies to make sure that they are well hydrated. For the first couple of days they will survive off of their yolk sac, but after that they can be fed using micro-crickets and fruit flies.



















It is easiest to keep babies all together in a small enclosure so that you can be confident that they are eating and drinking well. Most keepers tend to use kitchen roll as the substrate as it helps retain moisture and keep humidity up. It is also quick to replace when you come to clean the little pygmy enclosure.










Make sure to put some fake plants and other items into the enclosure for them to climb on. Once they reach the age of around 8 weeks you can then put them in to the main enclosure with the adults. One thing to note with baby pygmy chameleons, especially the bearded variety is that it is very difficult to sex them at a very young age. Each sex can display some very interesting coloration and patterning that might lead you to think you have a certain sex but this may not always be the case. It is best to sex them once they get a bit older and start to develop the known characteristics of a given sex.


----------



## coolcroc

Babies Hatching...


----------



## coolcroc

Planted Terrariums....


----------



## coolcroc

A few more Planted Terrariums..


----------



## coolcroc

karlh said:


> Hi mate I'll call in for a brew one day when your free, maybe being the little 'un.
> 
> Great article BTW :2thumb:


Cheers M8,

I don't have them available just yet but will do very soon, I have some babies you ca look at though.

Neil


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> I've also got a Tradescantia albiflora coming from Dartfrog, that will cover the coco sides.
> You say they like high altitudes, does that mean they're not floor dwellers like the others or is it just a temperature thing ?
> Also, you haven't said if you would deliver and if there's a charge if you do.


 
Hi,

The Altitude is Temp related, these little guys hunt on the ground ans in the plants for food during the day but sllep off the ground at night.

Yes I have a delivery service, this is £20.

Thanks
Neil


----------



## axvy69

Cool, have you got pics of the 2 species available soon ? Still can't find any of your 2 only Rh


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> I will post some pics up of the different species at the weekend when i put some up of my vivs.
> 
> I hope this helps...
> 
> Neil


Do you have any species comparison pictures ?


----------



## jonnyboy2000

ive got my setup just wondering were is the best place to put the heat matt? behind the backround or under the cocohusk?


----------



## axvy69

What's the difference between Rh Brevicaudatus and Rh Kerstenii ?
Markings, care etc. Which is more striking ?

Can't decide between the two.


----------



## coolcroc

jonnyboy2000 said:


> ive got my setup just wondering were is the best place to put the heat matt? behind the backround or under the cocohusk?


 
Personally, I wouldn't bother with a heat mat, whats the reason for using one?

Neil


----------



## coolcroc

R Acumiatus









R Kerstenii









R nchisiensis









R Uluguruensis









R brevicaudatus


----------



## axvy69

Wow, tough choice, they're nearly identical. 
I think R Kerstenii pips it with slightly more ridging on the head. 
Can't wait until they're ready.

Is that what the ones your selling will look like ?


----------



## jonnyboy2000

coolcroc said:


> Personally, I wouldn't bother with a heat mat, whats the reason for using one?
> 
> just that the room there in can be quite cold and dont go above 20 degrees unless the heating is on. and hits about 17 degrees at night. i saw they need about 23 degrees during the day.


----------



## coolcroc

jonnyboy2000 said:


> coolcroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't bother with a heat mat, whats the reason for using one?
> 
> just that the room there in can be quite cold and dont go above 20 degrees unless the heating is on. and hits about 17 degrees at night. i saw they need about 23 degrees during the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok, then i would put it on the side of the viv, you dont want the substrate getting too worm.
> 
> Neil
Click to expand...


----------



## jonnyboy2000

coolcroc said:


> jonnyboy2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok, then i would put it on the side of the viv, you dont want the substrate getting too worm.
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
> 
> cheers for the advice neil would it be best to put it behind the backround then as its one them polysterene ones.
Click to expand...


----------



## coolcroc

jonnyboy2000 said:


> coolcroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> cheers for the advice neil would it be best to put it behind the backround then as its one them polysterene ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Try it and see were is best for your viv.
> 
> Neil
Click to expand...


----------



## axvy69

Which is hardier ? 
It's my first chameleon.


----------



## axvy69

Which is best for a first chameleon ?


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> Which is best for a first chameleon ?


Probably R Kerstenii or R brevicaudatus.

Neil


----------



## axvy69

Which is hardier of the two ?


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> Which is hardier of the two ?


 
Their both the same.


----------



## kopstar

I fancy a pair of Uluguru pygmies for my 30x30 exo that I'm just maintaining live substrate in at the moment.


----------



## snowdragon

*hi all*

Hi all
I got my vivs all set up and iam looking for my 1st pygmy chams 
anybody know of any for sale ???
.... scot


----------



## Spikebrit

I dont know how I have never posted in this before. 

some links to the pics of my pygmy cham enclosures, both will hold pygmy's though one is titles lygos. 

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...ygmy-chameleon-planted-habitat-enclosure.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...odactylus-planted-habitat-enclosure-pics.html

You may recognise some of the pics 

enjoy
Jay


----------



## jonnyboy2000

my humidty digital reader is reading 99% how can i get it down to 75% to 80% im going to need for my pygmies?
i just put the cocohusk in yesterday so im guessing thats probally why its so high how long will it take to go down? or do i need to mist it more


----------



## Spikebrit

it will go down, as since you have just add the coco husk stuff as the water evaporates it will drop, dont worry. 

jay


----------



## jonnyboy2000

cheers ill keep an eye over the next few days then


----------



## jonnyboy2000

Spikebrit said:


> it will go down, as since you have just add the coco husk stuff as the water evaporates it will drop, dont worry.
> 
> jay


how long do you rekon it will take roughly to go down? Im using a wooden viv with vents at the top of the backwall not sure if that makes a difference to the exo terra ones. i have a heatmatt inside on the side of the viv as the room is quite cold there going to be in.


----------



## axvy69

Which are more handlable, if any ?


----------



## jonnyboy2000

can anyone suggest some good branches or wood to use what wont rot or get mould on as my last peace got hair on it.


----------



## axvy69

Are they ready yet ? The kersenii aren't on your site


----------



## axvy69

Are they ready yet ? 
The kerstenii aren't on your site to buy, do you accept paypal ?


----------



## Iwantone

Well I had my first Bearded Pygmy Chameleon hatch today. It was so exciting. Here are a few pics for you.

The egg is sweating.










A crack appears.










I can see something.










Here it comes.










Little baby :flrt:










Get me out of this tub.










Okay, I'll put you in your new house. :lol2: That is a bit of vermiculite on its side.


----------



## Iwantone

This morning's picture. :flrt: Three more on the way ....


----------



## axvy69

coolcroc said:


> Hi m8,
> 
> I will have some available in about 3 weeks, a quad will be £100.00
> 
> Neil


Are they ready yet ? :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble: (patience never was my strong point, lol)


----------



## jonnyboy2000

now going to pre order my chameleons from neil buzzzzzing!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## axvy69

The finished article. What do you think ?


----------



## coolcroc

axvy69 said:


> The finished article. What do you think ?
> [URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_IMAG0070.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_IMAG0069.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_IMAG0068.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_IMAG0067-1.jpg"]image[/URL][URL="http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab268/axvy69/Cham%20viv/th_IMAG0071.jpg"]image[/URL]


They are available now.


----------



## axvy69

Got mine, absolutely gorgeous

Forgot to ask they're age though, want to write their birthday on the tank


----------



## Spikebrit

Hi all dont forget to check out next months PRK to see the review of Neils facility. 

jay


----------



## kempo08

Spikebrit said:


> Hi all dont forget to check out next months PRK to see the review of Neils facility.
> 
> jay


Carnt wait, read the first part last night!! Great read very helpful, also got hold of Neil  cheers jay


----------



## kempo08

Iwantone said:


> Well I had my first Bearded Pygmy Chameleon hatch today. It was so exciting. Here are a few pics for you.
> 
> The egg is sweating.
> 
> image
> 
> A crack appears.
> 
> image
> 
> I can see something.
> 
> image
> 
> Here it comes.
> 
> image
> 
> Little baby :flrt:
> 
> image
> 
> Get me out of this tub.
> 
> image
> 
> Okay, I'll put you in your new house. :lol2: That is a bit of vermiculite on its side.
> 
> image


Well done mate, bet ur well chuffed, how they getting on?


----------



## tom_c89

Just read through the whole of this thread and its great!!, ive always loved chameleons and got my Uromastyx as advised that chams werent ideal first reptiles. Im reallly tempted to get some pygmys :2thumb:


----------



## Spikebrit

tom_c89 said:


> Just read through the whole of this thread and its great!!, ive always loved chameleons and got my Uromastyx as advised that chams werent ideal first reptiles. Im reallly tempted to get some pygmys :2thumb:




Hi all thought this would interest you I'm sure Neil (coolcroc) wont mine me posting this. Following the success of the artile last month in PRK discussing pygmy chams, written by myself and Neil. This month PRk visited neils facility (living jungle) and reviewed it. In the process we also took loads of pics and videos. A video of our day's activities can be seen here

The Living Jungle - YouTube

let me know what you think and don't forget to look for the article in this months magazine. 

jay


----------



## axvy69

Spikebrit said:


> Hi all thought this would interest you I'm sure Neil (coolcroc) wont mine me posting this. Following the success of the artile last month in PRK discussing pygmy chams, written by myself and Neil. This month PRk visited neils facility (living jungle) and reviewed it. In the process we also took loads of pics and videos. A video of our day's activities can be seen here
> 
> The Living Jungle - YouTube
> 
> let me know what you think and don't forget to look for the article in this months magazine.
> 
> jay


Just got my copy of Prk (June) and there' no mention of pygmy chams or your place in there. Confused.com ???


----------



## Spikebrit

axvy69 said:


> Just got my copy of Prk (June) and there' no mention of pygmy chams or your place in there. Confused.com ???


The pygmy cham article was may I believe, and the review will be out in July's edition. I believe that's how the months work out as im working a few months in advance. 

Sorry for the confusion. There should be an advert in the back page of junes mag that say review coming. 

Jay


----------



## axvy69

Nope...no advert

Dissapointed. Bought April for the pygmys, saw the advert for a 2 parter so bought May, that said would be in June but not there either 
Guess I'll have to try July too.


----------



## Spikebrit

axvy69 said:


> Nope...no advert
> 
> Dissapointed. Bought April for the pygmys, saw the advert for a 2 parter so bought May, that said would be in June but not there either
> Guess I'll have to try July too.


copied from other thread, either im loosing the plot or somthing is not right. 

June's issues isnt out yet imm sure it isn't, just checked as I havnt had the article proofs back yet. You sure you have junes issue?? 

I had my articles out in April on pygmys, May i missed but profs havn't been finished for june yet so the mag can't be out yet. Unless im missing something.


----------



## kopstar

Spikebrit said:


> Hi all thought this would interest you I'm sure Neil (coolcroc) wont mine me posting this. Following the success of the artile last month in PRK discussing pygmy chams, written by myself and Neil. This month PRk visited neils facility (living jungle) and reviewed it. In the process we also took loads of pics and videos. A video of our day's activities can be seen here
> 
> The Living Jungle - YouTube
> 
> let me know what you think and don't forget to look for the article in this months magazine.
> 
> jay


Brilliant! Was that a beaded lizard I saw in there amongst the other fantastic wildlife?


----------



## Spikebrit

kopstar said:


> Brilliant! Was that a beaded lizard I saw in there amongst the other fantastic wildlife?


it was indeed

Jay


----------



## kopstar

Spikebrit said:


> it was indeed
> 
> Jay


Excellent, I'll pick up a copy of PRK this week. I've been looking forward to the follow up article.


----------



## snowdragon

*just watched youtube vid*

OHHHH my wow wow wow
i have soooo wanted these little guys from you neil for my real planted victorian viv set ups sepecialy my new 4ft one .
i sooooo hate not being able to drive 
great vid complete jelouse of the chams 
...... scot


----------



## axvy69

Spikebrit said:


> copied from other thread, either im loosing the plot or somthing is not right.
> 
> June's issues isnt out yet imm sure it isn't, just checked as I havnt had the article proofs back yet. You sure you have junes issue??
> 
> I had my articles out in April on pygmys, May i missed but profs havn't been finished for june yet so the mag can't be out yet. Unless im missing something.


Definately June 2012. Bought from Kelsy Publishing online, arrived today.


----------



## coolcroc

snowdragon said:


> OHHHH my wow wow wow
> i have soooo wanted these little guys from you neil for my real planted victorian viv set ups sepecialy my new 4ft one .
> i sooooo hate not being able to drive
> great vid complete jelouse of the chams
> ...... scot


We have a delivery service available Scot.

Neil


----------



## Spikebrit

snowdragon said:


> OHHHH my wow wow wow
> i have soooo wanted these little guys from you neil for my real planted victorian viv set ups sepecialy my new 4ft one .
> i sooooo hate not being able to drive
> great vid complete jelouse of the chams
> ...... scot



HI Scot i thought i sent you the video of these on facebook or am I loosing my marbles. 

Next time we see neil if payment is sorted I can bring some back for you? or Neil does Delivery I believe as well. 

Edit see neil's post lol


----------



## ronnyjodes

This thread deserves a bump........ if only for my own selfish reasons  haha

I posted in the classifieds, I posted in the chameleon thread so I may aswell post in the pygmy thread :2thumb:. I'm after a pair or trio of pygmy chameleons (bearded/kenyan ideally) as is subtly depicted in my sig.

My thread in the classifieds got one reply that seems to have died and I've had plenty of suggestions to try Jungle Bugs but I was wondering if anybody else has any available?


----------



## Iwantone

ronnyjodes said:


> This thread deserves a bump........ if only for my own selfish reasons  haha
> 
> I posted in the classifieds, I posted in the chameleon thread so I may aswell post in the pygmy thread :2thumb:. I'm after a pair or trio of pygmy chameleons (bearded/kenyan ideally) as is subtly depicted in my sig.
> 
> My thread in the classifieds got one reply that seems to have died and I've had plenty of suggestions to try Jungle Bugs but I was wondering if anybody else has any available?


I have some babies but they are not ready just yet. They are bearded pygmies. They are all related though.


----------



## ronnyjodes

Iwantone said:


> I have some babies but they are not ready just yet. They are bearded pygmies. They are all related though.


Coolio, can you PM me with some more info on prices etc please. Shame they're all related though, I fancied either a pair or a trio.


----------



## Iwantone

ronnyjodes said:


> Coolio, can you PM me with some more info on prices etc please. Shame they're all related though, I fancied either a pair or a trio.


Will do. :2thumb:


----------



## snowdragon

*hi advice plz*

hi there 
i think my females might be laying 
i have 2 females and i male bearded pygmy and both females seem to be going into the corners of the viv and digging pits ? also they seem to be very lathargic not that pygmys are fast anyways ? are they ok ?
.... scot


----------



## Iwantone

snowdragon said:


> hi there
> i think my females might be laying
> i have 2 females and i male bearded pygmy and both females seem to be going into the corners of the viv and digging pits ? also they seem to be very lathargic not that pygmys are fast anyways ? are they ok ?
> .... scot


Do they look rather fat (rounded)? They will start digging if they are going to lay although mine seem to dig sometimes a while before they do lay.


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## ronnyjodes

So after much searching and waiting I finally got my pygmies today from Joanna ( Iwantone on here who still has some for sale if anybodies interested *free plug*). It took us an hour longer than anticipated to get there but after much driving and several phone calls we finally arrived and it was well worth the wait. Here's my two (hopefully females) which have been named Minnie and Tickle, evidence that you should never let your kids choose the names of your animals.


















They're currently setting in to their planted setup and so far one is hanging upside down from the mesh lid and the other one hasn't been seen since it went in- tiny animals FTW.


----------



## Iwantone

ronnyjodes said:


> So after much searching and waiting I finally got my pygmies today from Joanna ( Iwantone on here who still has some for sale if anybodies interested *free plug*). It took us an hour longer than anticipated to get there but after much driving and several phone calls we finally arrived and it was well worth the wait. Here's my two (hopefully females) which have been named Minnie and Tickle, evidence that you should never let your kids choose the names of your animals.
> image
> 
> image
> 
> They're currently setting in to their planted setup and so far one is hanging upside down from the mesh lid and the other one hasn't been seen since it went in- tiny animals FTW.


Aww my little babies. I hope they do well for you Jon and thanks for the 'free plug'. :lol2:


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## pippin9050

here is my little one
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/877120-update-my-pygmy-chameleon.html


----------



## ronnyjodes

Iwantone said:


> Aww my little babies. I hope they do well for you Jon and thanks for the 'free plug'. :lol2:


You're more than welcome :lol2:. It was really nice meeting you two today and I prmose to look after the pygmies : victory:


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## Iwantone

ronnyjodes said:


> You're more than welcome :lol2:. It was really nice meeting you two today and I prmose to look after the pygmies : victory:


It was lovely to meet you too and I know you will look after them. :no1:


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## ronnyjodes

Has anybody tried using turkistan roaches as feeders? Nymphs are small enough to be taken easily (size 1 cricket sizeish) and don't climb glass so could be useful for the pygmies and it'll reduce the number of escapees but I could use the adults for my frogs. It'll basically save me a fair bit in feeder costs if I can breed them but I just wanted to know what folks experiences were i.e will pygmies actually eat them :lol2:


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## Iwantone

How's this for shedding? One of my baby pygmies in full shed!


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## chameleonkev

That's the perfect shed, strait of with no issues, clearly a heathly little guy or gal keep up the good work


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## Iwantone

chameleonkev said:


> That's the perfect shed, strait of with no issues, clears a heathland little guy or gal keep up the good work


Thanks. :2thumb:


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## VixxieandTrixxie

ronnyjodes said:


> So after much searching and waiting I finally got my pygmies today from Joanna ( Iwantone on here who still has some for sale if anybodies interested *free plug*). It took us an hour longer than anticipated to get there but after much driving and several phone calls we finally arrived and it was well worth the wait. Here's my two (hopefully females) which have been named Minnie and Tickle, evidence that you should never let your kids choose the names of your animals.
> image
> 
> image
> 
> They're currently setting in to their planted setup and so far one is hanging upside down from the mesh lid and the other one hasn't been seen since it went in- tiny animals FTW.



They are so cute and tiny!!


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## kopstar

I have a tank still set up for Pygmys complete with live substrate. I'll try to get a couple in before the end of the year.


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## Ayres

How active are pygmy chams?


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## Iwantone

Ayres said:


> How active are pygmy chams?


It depends. Sometimes mine stay in the same spot for ages and other times they move around more. Often I will walk away from the Viv and they have disappeared by the time I get back.


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## danjmc89

Hi all

I have decided to get a group of brevicaudatus and I was wondering if anyone knows of current breeders? Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks
Dan


----------



## LauraandLee

danjmc89 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I have decided to get a group of brevicaudatus and I was wondering if anyone knows of current breeders? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Dan


I'm looking too :/


----------



## johne.ev

There is a guy in Anglesey, Nth Wales on this forum, username StevenM31. He definetely has genuine CB brevicaudatus. Not sure where you are Dan, but Reptile crazy in Norwich, have a breeding pair, though the babies seem to sell very quickly. There is also a guy advertising CB pygmies recently in the classifieds section, think he's based SW area. Be aware, most pygmy chameleons are WC, unless seller can prove otherwise, i'd be cautious that you are getting true CB animals.
Also check you are getting the correct species. Even some breeders have wrongly i'd pygmies they sell.


----------



## StevenM31

Thanks john.ev

Here are a couple of pics I have of the only ones I have so far, they're 2 weeks old, I have 3 all together but I'm not sure yet but 1 doesn't look too good but here are the pics





Thanks

Steven


----------



## danjmc89

Thank you for the advice. I have read that there are a lot of incorrect IDs around. Are these being bred very commonly now or still not so common?
In answer to your question, I am located in Birmingham. I moved here in October, from Anglesey as it happens! 

They look lovely Steven. I would be after a trio for a 20 gallon tank. From my research into these guys those two look like one of each sex, but is it too early to guess yet? 

Dan


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## StevenM31

Hi dan

Ahh right I see, yeah still to early to tell really


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## Baileywick




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## Baileywick

Here is mine. Bought as unsexed but tail and dorsel suggest male to me. Anyone agree? Bearded leaf chameleon


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## nickcradd067

Yes I'd say looks like a male from the tail alone.


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## jaybridge

Here's one of my bearded pygmy vivs









And here's one of the inhabitants 










I love planting up their vivs and watching them potter about, next vivs to plant up is one for some spinosum and one for some acuminatus  


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## johne.ev

nickcradd067 said:


> Yes I'd say looks like a male from the tail alone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep agree. 100% male.

Nice looking viv Jay. Set ups look so much better with live plants eh?

Here's a couple of mine. Rhampholeon temporalis set up first, it's a 60cm x 45 x 45 exo terra.



And Rieppoleon brevicaudatus set up, 45cm X 45 X 60 high exo terra. Will get some up to date pics of this viv. As its now much more over grown. The branch that takes up most of the viv i thought was dead when i first put it in a few months back. Turns out it's alive & has now started to grow & has produced new buds/leaves. Not sure what type of tree it's from, something deciduous though, obviously.


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## jaybridge

Nice john, I love live planted vivs, here's my other two








Currently has 1:1 brevs , 2 more females on the way! 
This one is a new one being settled ready for new inhabitants 








Just sourcing a couple more to plant up ready for 1:1 spinosum and 1:1 acuminatus


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## johne.ev

Yes like those Jay, bet your pyg's do too. 
What size are they? Have bought all mine second hand as well. You can get a good deal if you look about... just need them to be close enough, to make collecting them worthwhile.


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## jaybridge

Yes I love a bargain! Mine are all 2nd hand or ex display too! I have a 45x45x60 a 45x45x45 and a 30x30x45 , I prefer the bigger ones 45x45x45 is a nice size, can still get a decent sized bonsai in it too 
I am constantly on eBay or preloved etc looking for a bargain! 
I don't drive do so have to ensure things aren't too far as my mum will drive us for petrol money. We usually tie it in with taking my toddlers out somewhere nice too, that way every bodies happy!
Just heard they are forecasting another stupid hot summer, how are you planning to keep the heat down for your pygs if we get a really long run of hot weather? 



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## Ste123

Does anyone have a good caresheet. Ive been looking at my local shop thats selling pygmy leaf chams and ive fallen in love.


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## jaybridge

There are some links on the first page of this thread to get you started. They are amazing little things, I adore mine 


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## Ste123

jaybridge said:


> There are some links on the first page of this thread to get you started. They are amazing little things, I adore mine
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ive now read the whole thread and the info is amazing so im fairly happy.

Would a exo terra viv 60x45x45cm be ok and do you use UV lighting


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## jaybridge

Yes and yes!!! A lot of people use 30x30x45 for a trio, I have one of those a 45 cube and a 45x45x60, there's some pics of mind in this thread, I do use 2% or 5% compacts as the plants need light. Also although pygs do spend much of their time in shade they do also actively find a sunny spot so to speak to. Some don't bother with lights but if you want plants to grow in a planted viv then it works better 


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## Ste123

Ah cool so im playing it safe with a 60x45x45 good news. 
I first thought of just a canopy type design with branches and foilage but now im seeing that they love the floor so a leafy ground is just as important


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## jaybridge

Yes mine potter all over. They pick a favourite spot for a couple of days then move, they often go lower when looking grubs too. They are brilliant at hiding in plain site and will camouflage themselves. 


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## jaybridge

I notice you live near Brighton, I used to live in Worthing the reptile shop there has just got some in 


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## Ste123

Yep lol its worthing i been chatting too was in the shop today for an hour as the guy was showing my family all the cobras. Was gr8 until he got a rattle snake out then my 8 year old was like ok where is the exit haha. The pygmys took my wives heart straight away


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## jaybridge

I used to love that shop, we only moved away from Worthing a year and a half ago, I lived there for 16 odd years and my other half is a worthener born and bred! . I was pestering fierce creatures to get some pygs in and was going to get family to bring them up to me!! They are lovely things, I would recommend getting at least a couple, if you want to breed then 1:2 or more females. 


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## Ste123

How long do they live for? 
I think fierce have 2 left and not sure male or female. 




Its best shop i know as the fuys in their just chat for hours to us gave the kids sweets for being good and was entertaining us with various animals. They have two eyed lizards which are prolific hunters. Just a shame so many unusual stuff not for sale. Like his 3 sailfins. The eyed lizards etc.


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## jaybridge

I know his collection is amazing! We used to love looking at the cobra!
They are usually quite easy to sex females tend to be more flat coloured, rounded more smooth dorsal crest and a shorter tail, males tend to be smaller with a longer tail and more ridged dorsal crest. They often show off more stripey to females and other males. They don't live long 2 years approx and can die suddenly and without warning or reason. I just lost a female today  
This is a male








This is a female 










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## Ste123

They look awesome gr8 pix mate


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## jaybridge

They are pretty amazing! I'm just waiting on some rosette nosed pygmies arriving next week and a couple of bearded pygmy females, they can be really hard to get hold of! 


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## Ste123

I guess you have to have a strong heart to keep reptiles that dont live for long.


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## jaybridge

Yes, it's hard as they are so tiny that you can't do a thing when they go. However they are such cute little things and in a well planted viv with correct care can breed and thrive so it's a risk you take. However the one I lost today was my first so that's always sad 


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## Ste123

Would you leave eggs inside the viv or incubate them properly.


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## jaybridge

Some do leave them in, some take them out, some incubate and some leave at room temp, it's quite common if you have a group to not spot some eggs! I have just purchased an incubator, that can cool as well as heat simply because if we have another hot summer and I get any eggs I want to give them the best chance possible. There's a great pygmy group on fb. Worldwide pygmy chameleon keepers. It's mainly uk keepers on there. They are all really friendly and helpful, no trolls at all! 


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## Ste123

Ah gr8 i will check them out mate.
Thanks for all your info


----------



## Cosmic Coconut

This is my new tank I set up for my two baby bearded chams I breed 





































And my older one that had mum and dad in


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## Ste123

those pics are amazing.


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## jaybridge

Loving your vivs cosmic coconut! I re planted one of my last night 

Before








After


























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## Ste123

Looks better now you replanted jay but was also good before.
No lightng for your viv?


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## jaybridge

Yes I have a canopy, the last pic shows it with lights, I took canopy off when replanting as needed to take mesh lid off to get to back of it


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## jaybridge

In situ!


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## Ste123

Yea thats stunning.

Is it better to have the fogger? I thought it best not to spray to often in the day so its humid but not raining too much?

Im now thinking a live planted viv is best after seeing these pix. I best fo research


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## jaybridge

Thanks, I spray 2-3 times a day as it creates droplets for them to drink from. I use the foggers for an hour in morning and evening. Foggers at great for maintaining humidity levels. Sprays are brill for when you need a big increase in humidity. I find a combination is great. Some use the repti rain type systems too


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## jaybridge

And live planting is the best way to go and so nice to look at too!! 


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## Ste123

Looks like i need to research foggers. I saw someone had a humidifier that had a modified hoover tube into the tank. Cost £25 instead of £50 that a reptile fogger would cost. 
Whats the best size viv for a trio of chams. As they like the floor and height would a 60x45x45 LxDxH be ok or 60x45x60cm


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## jaybridge

I got my repti foggers on special from internet reptile at 34.99, which is a good price at mo. The foggers can be used on multiple vivs with the right tubes and connectors. 

I know a lot of people use 30x30x45 for a trio, so either of your two would be plenty big enough, if you have choice go for width over height, as they stick to the floor and lower branches in the wild, I have currently a 45x45x60 (that's the one I just replanted in my fireplace) I love the 45x45x45 they are perfect size for 1:2 or 1:3, hopefully gettjng another cube on Monday 2nd hand for my acuminatys which are ready in 3 weeks 


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## Jackjack88

Little bit concerned about one of my pygmys. She seems to spend a day or two in the same place and she's normally quite dark coloured. She must be eating because it's been a little while now and she's not getting any thinner or ill looking. 

Obviously I can't watch them all day but I'm sure she doesn't move. 

I've got two pygmys, both females in a 45x45 exo terra. One of thems is definitely more outgoing than the other and is often moving about and being colourful. (Well as colourful as pygmys get)


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## jaybridge

My pygmies do tend to chose a spot and stay there for a day or so, they move to somewhere new. Then go on a grub hunt then back to hiding in same spot. One of My females died suddenly recently she just say on floor of viv in same spot and went a dark colour, she didn't move and had her head down, sadly nothing I could do. Are your pygmies old? 


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## Jackjack88

Hmm well she's always up on a plant or on a twig. Can't remember ever seeing her just on the floor. 

I'm not entirely sure how old they are. I bought them from a member on here. I think they're about a year maybe?


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## Cosmic Coconut

Do you have a male in there with her? It's quite obvious when ones gravid because there nice and plump but Maybe she's looking for a laying spot. Mine would wonder about the viv floor looking for a good spot and then dig about getting prepared.


----------



## Jackjack88

No no two females I'm sure of it...


----------



## jaybridge

They are quite easy to sex, some pygmies are more outgoing and active than others, has there been a recent change in her behaviour


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## Cosmic Coconut

These are my baby bearded pygmy chameleons literally after they hatched 





































Some more random shots -


----------



## jaybridge

Gorgeous!!!!! I have r brevs too, got a couple more cb ladies arriving next week for the boys, also getting a couple of other species over the next couple of weeks 


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## Cosmic Coconut

Where do you get them from if you don't mind me asking? I have one very lonely male and would like to get him some female company.


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## jaybridge

I just got some from the living rainforest ryll. They should be arriving next week. Where aboutz Are you?


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## Cosmic Coconut

I'm from Taunton in somerset and I've never actually seen any for sale in a pet shop. I had to buy mine off the internet because I couldn't find any. I don't mind traveling to find him a new mate because he's been alone for a good 6 months now


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## jaybridge

One of my cb came from a breeder in Barnstaple Devon, he advertised in preloved as he had too many males. I also am on the fb group worldwide pygmy chameleon keepers as lots of breeders on there and we always nosing on internet and local shops to locate them! I know there are some at reptile shops in Worthing and lancing as I family living there!! 


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## jaybridge

Call Steve at living rainforest he delivers! 


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## Cosmic Coconut

Nice one, I'll check out a few classified sites and try that living rainforest then. Just seen that Worthing rep shops Facebook but that's way to far for me to travel.


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## jaybridge

Tarantula barn in lancing has them in too and they Also have their own courier company for reptiles too 


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## johne.ev

jaybridge said:


> I just got some from the living rainforest ryll.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm still waiting for them to put some pics up Jay, of the actual animals they have for sale. 

Here's a pic of one of my Rhampholeon temporalis pair (possibly female) couldn't get one of male, he's in the leaf litter hunting :lol2: Also pics of their new viv. Hope you like. 
You can actually just make out the other one (male?), he's just below the leaf, which is below the thermometer sensor, in the middle pic.


----------



## jaybridge

Hi, Steve from living rain forest posted on our little fb group, to say he was very sorry but he's been in hospital again, with his back. He said he's collecting the pygmies on Wednesday this week now, so hopefully he can post done pics. I would chase him up as he said the meds the prescribed and knocked him for six.


I have been busy replanting a viv of mine ready for some new arrivals









I should am awaiting yet another 2nd viv tomorrow 45 cube so sm busy thinking about how I shall get creative with this one too! 


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## jaybridge

Just spotted the male! Lol, I absolutely love trying to spot them! Will spend ages peering through the glass trying to locate them! Can be very hard in my densely planted vivs at times lol


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## johne.ev

Nice one Jay, thanks for the info. I'll chase him up. I don't do/like facebook, or any of them other social media sites tbh. Not because i'm unsociable :whistling2:, just dislike a lot of things about em. So unfortunately haven't seen what's happend him. 

Viv's looking good. Is that for the acuminatus pair?


----------



## johne.ev

Ha ha, agree, even in mine i cant sometimes see them... until that little beady eye moves & gives em away :lol2:


----------



## johne.ev

jaybridge said:


> Hi, Steve from living rain forest posted on our little fb group, to say he was very sorry but he's been in hospital again, with his back. He said he's collecting the pygmies on Wednesday this week now, so hopefully he can post done pics. I would chase him up as he said the meds the prescribed and knocked him for six.
> 
> 
> I have been busy replanting a viv of mine ready for some new arrivals image
> 
> I should am awaiting yet another 2nd viv tomorrow 45 cube so sm busy thinking about how I shall get creative with this one too!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really like what i can see of the background in that enclosure Jay... whats it done with?


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## Ste123

jaybridge said:


> Hi, Steve from living rain forest posted on our little fb group,


Jay if you dont mind a new member as im still trying to research on getting pygmies in the future could you tell jme the name of the FB group please.


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## jaybridge

Yes it's not my group but it's very welcoming, mainly a small group of active uk members. It's called worldwide pygmy chameleon keepers, my full name is Janine Haime, every calls me jay! If you can't find add me and I can add you!


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## jaybridge

Hi john, this viv is for my spinosus pair, the background is bark, liiana and various mosses on a thick material base. I really wish I could take credit for this one but I actually got someone to make it for me, they are superb and rely inexpensive, much
Much nicer than the polystyrene original. Now I have seen it I'm sure I could replicate, it's having the time as I have 2 children under 2. Both teething! 

The new viv I'm getting will be for acuminatus, if it turns up, they said they would bring it over today for a fuel costs, but not heard from them since never mind I'm sure I can source another if these people have let me down. 


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## jaybridge

johne.ev said:


> Nice one Jay, thanks for the info. I'll chase him up. I don't do/like facebook, or any of them other social media sites tbh. Not because i'm unsociable :whistling2:, just dislike a lot of things about em. So unfortunately haven't seen what's happend him.
> 
> 
> 
> Viv's looking good. Is that for the acuminatus pair?



I have to say I have found forums and Facebook have there fair share of trolls. I tend to keep my distance, avoid any threads that are argumentative or critical for the sake of it. If anyone's interested it my set ups they tend to message me directly which is fine. The pygmy Cham group is the only truly friendly informative group on fb, it's only small and only a handful of regulars, a few of which I know are on here too! 

My 2nd hand exo cube has arrived! Time to get planning again 


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## Jackjack88

Can I just ask for some advice on whether my two pygmy chameleons are the same species or not? 

I was sold them as Rhampholeon brevicaudatus but they're both very different looking and different sizes. 

Ones quite large (in pygmy chameleon terms) and changes colours quite a lot. 



And then there's the smaller one who seems to stay in one place quite a lot and stays a grey/brown colour. 



I'm 99.9% sure they're both female because I've never really seen them together or mating etc.


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## jaybridge

Yes they are r brevs. There can be a fair bit of size variation in brevs even when they are same age. Did you get them from a shop? Are they wc? If do then they will be different in age too. I would say the 2nd pic is definitely a female, the first looks female but it would be good to see the tail clearly, as males tails are much longer than females. Males do tend to show more patternation than females however it's generally the combination of more defined serrated dorsal crest, longer tail, and more pattern that confirms a male. 


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## Jackjack88

Thanks for the quick reply! They were both bought from a member on here. Unfortunately I don't know if they're WC or not. 

Here's another couple if photos of the 'colourful' one.


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## johne.ev

Yes agree with Jay, both female.
Sorry didn't realise they were the same animal. Can you get a full pic of the other ones tail? The one in pic above is female.

I believe the colour variation is due to one being more dominant over the other. Have seen this when i kept a group & pairs of the same sex & opposite sex too.


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## jaybridge

These are some of my males, for comparison purposes.











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## Jackjack88

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realise how much of a variation you could get with these little guys. 

I'll have to get another photo of the smaller one tomorrow when I can. It's interesting to hear that it could be a dominance thing. 

I've never seen them close together really or saw any dominant behaviour. It could though explain why one is more active, while the other tends to stay on one side of their enclosure.


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## johne.ev

Look great Jay. How's my old fella getting on? : victory:
It's amazing how much colour & pattern variation individuals can show eh?


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## johne.ev

Jackjack88 said:


> I've never seen them close together really or saw any dominant behaviour. It could though explain why one is more active, while the other tends to stay on one side of their enclosure.


Thats it mate, they don't even have to be in the same viv. All they need to do is see another chameleon, doesn't seem to matter what sex or even species.
I have tried putting my brevs in with the temporalis & vice versa just to see what happens (always stayed close by & never for more than a few minutes), pairs, single males & single females etc. Same result, the dominant one/s (depending usually on whose viv ones in) fires up & the sub dom one goes all dark. This is the time i quickly remove them.
Has made me question keeping even pairs together, especially in small enclosures. From the limited amount of time i have been keeping them. It's shown me that they do possibly need more space than some people believe. If one is being dominated (even one of the opposite sex, in a group situation) in too small a viv, it has no where to go. I personally think a well planted viv is a must if keeping more than one animal together.


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## jaybridge

Hi john, your little fella is settling in nicely! He's been trying out a couple of spots and seems settled. I have tried to get a pic if him tonight but he's deep undercover in the maidenhair! I shall take a pic and post it up when I can. 

The variations in them is amazing. I have seen them attempt to darken up one part of their body in order to blend in! My female looked very dark once and I was a little concerned, I lifted a ficus leaf that was partially covering her body and she was lighter under the leaf. I took a pic but she was already changing back!










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## jaybridge

Apologies for the blurry pic I was trying to catch it quick before she changed back to her normal more uniformed grey green colour! 


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## jaybridge

I agree with a large well planted viv with plenty of cover and hidey holes, if they can hide away out of sight from each other they feel safer and less stressed. My latest planted viv (finished this evening!)










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## johne.ev

Jackjack88 said:


> I've never seen them close together really or saw any dominant behaviour. It could though explain why one is more active, while the other tends to stay on one side of their enclosure.


That's just it though Jack(?), you are seeing dominant behaviour imo, but just not realising it. It's my personal opinion from observing my animals anyway. Why one of your chams is nice & bright, with nice attractive markings & the other is dull & dark. But they are the same species, but look totally different, especially to someone with no experience of pygmies (that comment is not aimed at you mate btw, but peeps in general). Stressed perhaps & possibly why they suddenly drop down dead, for no apparent reason? Like i said, i have only been keeping pygmies for a short while & have lost a couple myself in that short space of time. So i'm far from an expert or even an experienced keeper for that matter. But just from what iv'e seen in my own animals, makes me wonder if they would be best kept alone, same as we do with the larger chameleon species?? 
Would be interested to see a keeper with plenty of viv space & a decent size mixed sex group, carry out some more detailed & lengthy observations on this subject. I did actually read something a while back when researching pygmies. Was written by a well respected herpetologist/chameleon expert. But can't remember where i read it now? He was also advocating housing them singly or at least in much larger enclosures than most would consider using.


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## johne.ev

jaybridge said:


> I agree with a large well planted viv with plenty of cover and hidey holes, if they can hide away out of sight from each other they feel safer and less stressed. My latest planted viv (finished this evening!) image
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Love it Jay, looks great. Nice choice of plants, look nice & healthy. Good to hear he's doing good.


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## Baileywick

I just lost a brev through stress caused by dominance. Was a male and female cohabiting as well. Seperated them as soon as I noticed he wasn't happy but he didn't start eating again. Hard to chill them back out when their adrenal gland's been at it for a couple days


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## Jackjack88

Interesting to read all your thoughts. Would it be worth separating them then to see any changes? 

They're both in a 45x45 exo terra, so either I can add some more plants to make more shielding / hiding areas, or I do have a 30x30 exo terra they came with when I bought them. 

After reading lots of care sheets and how everyone keeps their pygmys as a couple or small group, I can't recall off the top of my head about dominance. Only about not keeping two males together.


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## jaybridge

Its an interesting thought. However, I also know many many people that cohabit all their brevs with no issues at all. I do know that it us recommended to have a couple of females to each male to take away the strain of breeding. I would have a look at your set up first. What have you got in your set up at the moment? Is it live planted and bio active? Do you have plenty of foilage? How are you keeping humidity up? 


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## Jackjack88

My set up is as follows,

45x45 exo terra cube
Low uv Arcadia light
Live planted
Bio-active (springtails)
Leaf litter
Sticks 
Heavily misted once or twice a day

I have noticed this evening that they're both out together in the middle of my terrarium, ones dark grey the others light brown. 

More photos...

The set up


The smaller dark pygmy



The bigger lighter pygmy 



Together


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## jaybridge

I would say another plant with a bit more foliage in there so they can hide more, everything else is spot on
Though. 

I go for more dense planting, means I have real job locating them at times but I find that they can they choose whether they want to be in view of each other or completely hidden from view, I think I have pics of my vivs on this thread. Pygmies do come in various different shades and morphs. You can get more yellow based, red base and green base brevs, so some of the colour difference in your females could well be just the way they are. However really dark for a long time is usually a sign of stress. 


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## Jackjack88

Thanks for the advice. I have been thinking the whole left hand side needs a bit more foliage. 
I'll pop into a few shops tomorrow And see what I can get. Any recommendations?


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## jaybridge

I use, ficus, maiden hair fern is great for coverage, not so good for them to climb on, but does provide a lot of cover. All of my pygs love a good bushy ficus to sit in and hide. I have tried umbrellas but they aren't keen on my vivs ! 


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## johne.ev

Jackjack88 said:


> My set up is as follows,
> 
> 45x45 exo terra cube
> Low uv Arcadia light
> Live planted
> Bio-active (springtails)
> Leaf litter
> Sticks
> Heavily misted once or twice a day
> 
> I have noticed this evening that they're both out together in the middle of my terrarium, ones dark grey the others light brown.
> 
> More photos...
> 
> The set up
> [URL=http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/jackguild69/1E1499FF-4F97-447D-AC4B-198C4B60BFC4_zpsopxjrmof.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> The smaller dark pygmy
> 
> [URL=http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/jackguild69/81CFD840-FD41-4B26-B7CD-42F9054737C6_zpsomiq0zmt.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> The bigger lighter pygmy
> 
> [URL=http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/jackguild69/51C79D8D-4040-4F34-BF98-FF30EE61C1B9_zpsv0gtesv8.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> Together
> 
> [URL=http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b87/jackguild69/DB18C6F6-AFBF-4F69-B567-5E36C2E5F7AA_zpsrd7vtgzj.jpg]image[/URL]


Viv looks great Jack, lots of little twiggy bits & lots of leaf litter, seems to work well.
If your pyg's are feeding ok, then i wouldn't worry too much regards housing them together, just keep a close eye on them.


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## Jackjack88

Right so just bought a maidenhair fern and was about to start planting when I found one of my pygmys digging!


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## jaybridge

How long have you had the girls for? Do you know if they were kept with a boy? They can retain sperm, it's possible she's laying eggs. They do have a little dig sometimes when they are grub foraging, but the way she's crouching looks a little more like egg laying. 


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## Jackjack88

I've had them since Christmas and just the two girls. Though on the tank the previous owner wrote a sticker with 3x Bearded Pygmy Chameleon stuck to the terrarium. 

Unfortunately I don't know what the third one was (I assume it died). Do you know how long they can retain sperm?

I guess this would explain why one looks a lot bigger / fatter than the other


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## jaybridge

I haven't experienced it myself but they can retain sperm for months after breeding, I have the stump tailed chameleons book which I believe had something about it in there so shall have a look for you 


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## Jackjack88

Would be interesting to see if she does lay. I can't see any eggs just yet, though I haven't looked too hard I don't want to stress her out


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## jaybridge

I would leave her to it and hope for a small clutch of fertile eggs! Just having a look through my book now!


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## Jackjack88

Still there...



Grumpy looking as always


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## jaybridge

I love their grumpy little faces! 


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## Mikael

Guys is it okay to keep a 1.1 pair of pygmy chams together for breeding or should I get 2 females. I am curios because some people do this while others say the female will get to stressed.


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## Spikebrit

Mikael said:


> Guys is it okay to keep a 1.1 pair of pygmy chams together for breeding or should I get 2 females. I am curios because some people do this while others say the female will get to stressed.


I dont like keeping males permanently with females so i separate mine for 6 months of the year. For me it minimises breeding related stress and appears to prolong life. 

Jay


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## jaybridge

Beautiful baby r. acuminatus baby having a sleep. 


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## Jackjack88

Just thought I'd come and say that I lost one of my pygmy girls last night . Looked fine in the morning when I switched lights on, fed and misted, but later that evening my other half spotted her in the corner of their tank. 

She was a very white colour with black markings on her eyes lips and ribs. Was quite scary looking to be honest.

Buried her this morning. 

Will my other girl be ok on her own? Or should I looking into getting another 'friend'?

RIP little girl.


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## johne.ev

Sorry to hear that mate. Been there myself, so know how you feel.
Do you know how old they were/are? CB or WC do you know?
Personally i would house her alone & am beginning to feel the same as Jay, regards housing pygmies together, in groups or pairs. I keep reading that they are social animals in the wild, but i'm beginning to have my doubts about this. There is a big difference between being found in close proximity to one another in the leaf litter of the forest floor. Compared to a two foot by eighteen tank. Have lost a couple myself in the past, for as you say no apparent reason (making me wonder if stress from being intimidated by the other tank mate is possible cause). When one is left alone it still seems fine & in my case grows & thrives without any issues.


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## Spikebrit

johne.ev said:


> Sorry to hear that mate. Been there myself, so know how you feel.
> Do you know how old they were/are? CB or WC do you know?
> Personally i would house her alone & am beginning to feel the same as Jay, regards housing pygmies together, in groups or pairs. I keep reading that they are social animals in the wild, but i'm beginning to have my doubts about this. There is a big difference between being found in close proximity to one another in the leaf litter of the forest floor. Compared to a two foot by eighteen tank. Have lost a couple myself in the past, for as you say no apparent reason (making me wonder if stress from being intimidated by the other tank mate is possible cause). When one is left alone it still seems fine & in my case grows & thrives without any issues.


Sorry for you loss

Im a big advocate of keeping them seperate, mine are still going strong and i just pair them up for breeding. 


Jay


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## Mikael

Hey guys just setup my pygmy cage can u give me any tips if it's too crowded or not enough plants or anything else all help would be greatly appreciated thanks!

Mikael_m29's Library | Photobucket

Here are the pictures I don't know how to use photo bucket that well so I hope u can view them fine.


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## Jackjack88

I can't see your photo bucket it's set to private


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## Mikael

There I fixed it now it's not private.


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## Jackjack88

Just given my Pygmy chameleon enclosure a needed refresh. What do you think?


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## Fordyl2k

both are looking really good, where did you get your twigs?


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## Jackjack88

Fordyl2k said:


> both are looking really good, where did you get your twigs?


Mine are from an old ficus plant in my Panther chameleons enclosure


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## johne.ev

Here's a pic of my set ups. As i posted earlier on this thread. I prefer to, & have had much more success keeping mine individually as opposed to pairs & trio's.



The set ups are not as bright as they appear in the pics. The brightness is exaggerated by the flash on my phone. All three tanks are lit by a single 39w Arcadia T5 HO 6% uv fluorescent tube. I provide no other heating/lighting & none at night. Temps are getting down to around 15C on really cold nights & the pyg's are doing fine.


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## johne.ev

Fordyl2k said:


> where did you get your twigs?


I collect all my tank decor, from the woods/forest, including substrate.


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## Fordyl2k

cheers mate, getting a 45 cube exo Terra tonight, so setting it up as my new pygmy chameleon home, she's currently in a 30x30x45 live planted tank.


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## johne.ev

I posted this on a chameleon site too, but while i'm here may as well ask.
Have done quite a bit of research, but still can't make up my mind what species it (a male i think) is? I'm sure it's from the Rhampholeon group. Anyone know/ like to guess?


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## johne.ev

Fordyl2k said:


> she's currently in a 30x30x45 live planted tank.


That's what i keep mine in. Planted, with drainage layer & with bio active substrate.


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## obie_1

Great looking pygmys and set ups.I used to keep them and would like some more anybody know of any in west mids area for sale.Thanks for any help..


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## geckoloverr

johne.ev said:


> I posted this on a chameleon site too, but while i'm here may as well ask.
> Have done quite a bit of research, but still can't make up my mind what species it (a male i think) is? I'm sure it's from the Rhampholeon group. Anyone know/ like to guess?
> 
> [URL=http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/johnny_ev/IMAG0388_zpsb2ed51e7.jpg]image[/URL]


Male Kenya leaf chameleon? R.kerstenii?


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## danjmc89

Hi all

I was wondering what pygmies people have available at the moment? I love my group of beardeds so wondering if there are some from another species available? 
Also some new gene input for my beardeds would be useful 

Cheers
Dan


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