# Gold fish



## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Sorry, I'm completely ignorant on fish keeping, so it may sound a stupid question.

My son has been keeping a gold fish for about a year now. He changes 1/3 of the water weekly, he feed well, filter and decor are cleaned regularly, etc.

We noticed that in the last week or so, he's been staying on top, almost as floating, while before he used to swing and hide near the bottom.

Does it mean he's ill and he's going to die soon ?


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## Aquai (Feb 11, 2009)

What size is the goldfish, these things theoretically live for years?

This sounds like a swim bladder problem.

Can we have a few more details, diet? Setup?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

He's just over 1 yo, he feeds on Nutrafin Goldfish Flake Food, and has been feeding twice a day, and he lives in a 21 litre elite aquarium.


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## Aquai (Feb 11, 2009)

Dexter said:


> He's just over 1 yo, he feeds on Nutrafin Goldfish Flake Food, and has been feeding twice a day, and he lives in a 21 litre elite aquarium.


Ok, swim bladder problems can come and go, he may also be constipated so try giving him a pea or two, seems to help move the system.

I would however say, before anyone flames you, that you could do with a bigger tank for him. Unfortunately goldfish are often brought under the belief they can live their life in a small tank/bowl and can live for many years. I would recommend a bigger tank in the future or asap but it's upto you.

James


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks James, you mean a pea like the ones you get from tesco in tins ?

I think it would be too big for him, maybe I'd have to cut a pea in half ?

He's about 5 to 6 cm long : victory:


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## Aquai (Feb 11, 2009)

Frozen peas are your best bet, just pop it out of the skin if you know what i mean.

Cut it up if need be yeh, you'll probably find he mushes it anyway.

James


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Nice one, will try that : victory:


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## Omerov1986 (Feb 11, 2009)

how do you clean te filter sponge?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Omerov1986 said:


> how do you clean te filter sponge?


I'll have to ask the missus and son tomorrow. But I think they just followed the instructions that came with it.

By the way, the fish didn't want to eat the peas :whip:

But we will try again : victory:


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Make sure they wash the filter media in the fish tank water. And some dont, just leave over night and try again.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Unfortunately, that tank is far too small. Current info recommends at least 45L per goldfish otherwise it'll end up stunted. I suggest you either (a) upgrade to a bigger tank or (b) return the goldfish, get a tank heater and a _Betta splendens_ (Siamese Fighter Fish) instead. :2thumb:


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

if he's still floating about on the top, you can get some aquarium salt, mix with water and pop him in that for half an hour/hour each day. this has always worked for me, even with the worst affected fish! 
also add some to his usual tank, but not as strong as what you'll soak him in. 
basically follow instructions on pack for amounts in his tank, and put a fair bit more in to soak him


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Never heard of LizardLoveRach's guide, but i dont see why this wouldnt help. As above what trillian said, the tank is too small. What goldfish do you have?, Fancy or normal?


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Just normal goldfish.

Pets at home sold me the tank saying it was Ok for 3 goldfish :bash:

Anyway, I'll see how he comes along.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

They really need a pond if im honest. Try and rehome and get a Betta.


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## Richcymru (Nov 21, 2008)

Pets at home will sell you anything without proper advice!
Like some of the others said, try using aquarium tonic salts if you think that it is a swimbladder problem. It will also help remove any osmotic stress associated witht the problem. However, some swimbladder problems are congenital such as a deformed/under-developerd swimbladder, which is unfortunately incurable. If you have a specialist fish shop near to you, ask them for their advice. Dont go back to pets at home! 

On a slighty different note, has anyone else noticed that Pets at home dont quarantine their fish? and mix new fish with existing stock AND sell the freshly delivered fish on the same day that they arrive! UNBELIEVEABLE!!! :gasp:


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## Aquai (Feb 11, 2009)

Richcymru said:


> Pets at home will sell you anything without proper advice!
> Like some of the others said, try using aquarium tonic salts if you think that it is a swimbladder problem. It will also help remove any osmotic stress associated witht the problem. However, some swimbladder problems are congenital such as a deformed/under-developerd swimbladder, which is unfortunately incurable. If you have a specialist fish shop near to you, ask them for their advice. Dont go back to pets at home!
> 
> On a slighty different note, has anyone else noticed that Pets at home dont quarantine their fish? and mix new fish with existing stock AND sell the freshly delivered fish on the same day that they arrive! UNBELIEVEABLE!!! :gasp:


Tbh, the fish and knowledge in pets at home may not be spot on, but i was pleasantly surprised when my housemate had to fill in a questionaire about his tank before buying 2 flag fish and 2 amano shrimps. It is, in my opinion, something that should be happening more readily in the UK.

James


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Aquai said:


> Tbh, the fish and knowledge in pets at home may not be spot on, but i was pleasantly surprised when my housemate had to fill in a questionaire about his tank before buying 2 flag fish and 2 amano shrimps. It is, in my opinion, something that should be happening more readily in the UK.
> 
> James


My local PAH is realy good, have a huge A4 peice of paper to fill in lol


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

I'm always very careful about criticising this or that shop. 

For instance, you can go to a Tesco in Northamptom or a B&Q in Bristol and hate their service, expertise, advice.

Then you go to a Tesco in Windsor or a B&Q in Newcastle and love the service, the people, the treatment.

It's all down to the person you talk to. The person who knows most about fish might end up being employed by a PAH near you, then you think he will forget all he knows just because he go employed by them ?

Or do you reckon they will tell this person: 'make sure you only give rubbish advice, talk bollox, and sell wrong equipment to every customer that enters the shop ...' ?

Maybe it's just that we talked to the wrong person (out of many employees they have) when we went there. TBH it's my son who loves fish, I'd not have one if it depended on me, but since I have it, I don't want it to suffer.

If I'm not wrong, the aquarium package mentioned that it was Ok for gold fish which probably didn't help much. 

But if it's rocket science to have a gold fish and it demands a swimming pool to keep a tiny little fish that is about 5 cm long, then I will ensure this is the last one he keeps.

Of course if it grow much bigger I'll have to end up buying a new tank, but I've got a feeling that fish won't last long.

By the way, I'll give it a go at the tonic salt thing.


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont understand why on these forums people keep telling others their tanks are to small, does it make them feel big telling someone else they arent aloud to do something? I just told a load of others to go f*** themselves on another forum as I introduced myself and my fish and they straight away jumped on my back telling me they "hope I got a BIG pond to put my fish in when they grow". Do they know what size my fish are, or if I dont already have a pond and do they just assume I am an idiot and have no fish keeping experience.
So your telling me my 5 foot 400 litre tank is too small for my 1.5" common carp as one day (in 5 years or so) he could be 40lb+ and 2 foot long???


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> I dont understand why on these forums people keep telling others their tanks are too small


If the LFS gave them the correct advice in the first place, we wouldn't have to...:whistling2:

Unfortunately, most LFS just sell the fish and know feck all about the individual requirements, compatibility issues or ultimate size of the fish. So it's nothing to do with "feeling big", it's in the best interests of the fish and the fishkeeper to have the correct information in order to save a lot of bother in the long run. : victory:


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

alpharoyals said:


> I dont understand why on these forums people keep telling others their tanks are to small, does it make them feel big telling someone else they arent aloud to do something? I just told a load of others to go f*** themselves on another forum as I introduced myself and my fish and they straight away jumped on my back telling me they "hope I got a BIG pond to put my fish in when they grow". Do they know what size my fish are, or if I dont already have a pond and do they just assume I am an idiot and have no fish keeping experience.
> So your telling me my 5 foot 400 litre tank is too small for my 1.5" common carp as one day (in 5 years or so) he could be 40lb+ and 2 foot long???


Its because they care about what happens to the fish. All the advice given was correct. Nobody has been rude. The tank is to small for the fish and maybe the OP didn't know. I would be more worried if nobody said anything.


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> I dont understand why on these forums people keep telling others their tanks are to small, does it make them feel big telling someone else they arent aloud to do something? I just told a load of others to go f*** themselves on another forum as I introduced myself and my fish and they straight away jumped on my back telling me they "hope I got a BIG pond to put my fish in when they grow". Do they know what size my fish are, or if I dont already have a pond and do they just assume I am an idiot and have no fish keeping experience.
> So your telling me my 5 foot 400 litre tank is too small for my 1.5" common carp as one day (in 5 years or so) he could be 40lb+ and 2 foot long???


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
as long as the people know how big their fish will get and will either get a new tank or give them to someone when they get too big, then they will be fine in the smaller tank when they are tiny! people who keep corn snakes and stuff dont keep them in a massive tank that they will need when they are full grown because it is hard for them to find food and a waste of space for something that doesnt need it while young!


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

gizzard said:


> :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
> as long as the people know how big their fish will get and will either get a new tank or give them to someone when they get too big, then they will be fine in the smaller tank when they are tiny! people who keep corn snakes and stuff dont keep them in a massive tank that they will need when they are full grown because it is hard for them to find food and a waste of space for something that doesnt need it while young!


Its different with fish, the more water you have the less likely the water levels are to spike and harm the fish. Also even smaller fish like big spaces and like to be able to swim about. Snakes and fish are different. Also most people think you can keep a goldfish in a bowl for its whole life.


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

is fishy still alive and kicking? that salt thing really does seem to work, i had a couple of goldfish/fancy fish with swim bladder and dropsy and doing that saved even the smallest fish that was barely an inch long! 
usually takes around three days of salt baths to work.


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## gizzard (May 5, 2008)

lizardloverrach said:


> is fishy still alive and kicking? that salt thing really does seem to work, i had a couple of goldfish/fancy fish with swim bladder and dropsy and doing that saved even the smallest fish that was barely an inch long!
> usually takes around three days of salt baths to work.


how much salt? marine tank levels? or just a little bit?
how does it help them heal?


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

I'd reduce feeding to be honest. That's always worked for me. Also stopping feeding for a couple of days seems to work too.


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

don't know bout normals but fancy goldfish can get swin bladder problems from taking in air when they feed from the surface, hence it is often recommended that fancys be fed sinking food

just a thought


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

gizzard said:


> as long as the people know how big their fish will get and will either get a new tank or give them to someone when they get too big, then they will be fine in the smaller tank when they are tiny!


Only for a few months at most. See my previous post for explanation. :whistling2:


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

I have read on a pond salt packet to keep it between 1ppt and 5ppt all the time and 9ppt for a fortnight when treating.

No where near marine levels :whistling2:

HTH


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

lizardloverrach said:


> is fishy still alive and kicking? that salt thing really does seem to work, i had a couple of goldfish/fancy fish with swim bladder and dropsy and doing that saved even the smallest fish that was barely an inch long!
> usually takes around three days of salt baths to work.


Yep, he's happily swimming about at the moment. Just shad a look and he was swimming down the bottom, but I'll still try and do the salt thing : victory:

It's just that I won't have time to go to a shop till the weekend.


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

Dexter said:


> Yep, he's happily swimming about at the moment. Just shad a look and he was swimming down the bottom, but I'll still try and do the salt thing : victory:
> 
> It's just that I won't have time to go to a shop till the weekend.


good! 
and other people im not claiming to be a fish expert, i just was told about the salt treatment when i had a couple fish that were swimming upside down and at the top, and also when one was injured by a toad i had in the tank (the toad was immediately removed for good before anyone says anything)
and it worked a treat so i will always reccomend it: victory:


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## daftlassieEmma (Oct 23, 2008)

lizardloverrach said:


> good!
> and other people im not claiming to be a fish expert, i just was told about the salt treatment when i had a couple fish that were swimming upside down and at the top, and also when one was injured by a toad i had in the tank (the toad was immediately removed for good before anyone says anything)
> and it worked a treat so i will always reccomend it: victory:


no need to apologise, i know plenty people who use salt to treat fish with swim bladder troubles and 9 times out of 10 it works


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

daftlassieEmma said:


> no need to apologise, i know plenty people who use salt to treat fish with swim bladder troubles and 9 times out of 10 it works


 
it does! its really good for a few problems! it saved my mini fancy goldfish 'mini' who was never very healthy from when i bought him! then he was attacked off the toad, and his tail was in shreds. laying upside down 
thought he was finished....but 3 days in salt baths and he was fine  still going strong now 3 years later


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

We are quite please at the moment, he seems to be staying lower in the aquarium now, and even in his hide at the bottom.

We will keep using it every now and again : victory:


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## lizardloverrach (Dec 1, 2008)

Dexter said:


> We are quite please at the moment, he seems to be staying lower in the aquarium now, and even in his hide at the bottom.
> 
> We will keep using it every now and again : victory:


thats good :no1:


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