# axolotl and fish



## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

just a quick question, are there any algae eating fish that are ok to keep with axolotls at all? I am planning on keeping a shoal of danios and white cloud mountain minnows in with them (and am aware that they will likely dine on them occasionally) but am wanting to add an algae eater if possible, just to help me with keeping on top of cleaning etc.


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

Unless the fish are near the same size as the axi they will likely get eaten or at least attempted.

Also as you need fairly mild filtration with axolotls the cat fish will add probably add more to waste load than it provides in clean up.

Axis also like cool water - so you would need fish that can tolerate it low in temperature


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

sharpstrain said:


> Unless the fish are near the same size as the axi they will likely get eaten or at least attempted.
> 
> Also as you need fairly mild filtration with axolotls the cat fish will add probably add more to waste load than it provides in clean up.
> 
> Axis also like cool water - so you would need fish that can tolerate it low in temperature


yeah thats why I was looking into danios and minnows, as they do well in cold water set ups, and also are a good feeder fish...also been having a read, and apparently ghost shrimps are a great tankmate for axies! supposedly too fast in general to get eaten by the axies, they are great for cleaning up debris and uneaten food, and will not bother the axies either! think I shall definitely be looking into those!


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Not a lot you can keep with axolotls. I dont know if danios are ok, i keep white cloud minnows with my mine and have kept guppys with then in the past with no problems. The other species which are safe are shrimps and small snails and that is pretty much it.


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## rigsby (Jan 11, 2008)

Anything that fits into the axies mouth will end up getting eaten in the end, the other main problem is the axies gills tend to look like blood worm to fish and will end up getting nibbled off by larger fish. The cat fish i think your on about are covered in spines and if the axie was to try to swallow one of the plecs chances are they both could end up dead.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

ianxxx said:


> Not a lot you can keep with axolotls. I dont know if danios are ok, i keep white cloud minnows with my mine and have kept guppys with then in the past with no problems. The other species which are safe are shrimps and small snails and that is pretty much it.


yeah I think I will stick to the minnows and maybe danios and some ghost shrimp, none are a risk to the axies and all are safe to be eaten should they decide to.



rigsby said:


> Anything that fits into the axies mouth will end up getting eaten in the end, the other main problem is the axies gills tend to look like blood worm to fish and will end up getting nibbled off by larger fish. The cat fish i think your on about are covered in spines and if the axie was to try to swallow one of the plecs chances are they both could end up dead.


yeah this is the issue, I would not keep a pleco in with them...aside from temperatures, a large plec could easily kill an axolotl...I was unsure if there were others though...such as the chinese algae eaters etc.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ian.g said:


> yeah I think I will stick to the minnows and maybe danios and some ghost shrimp, none are a risk to the axies and all are safe to be eaten should they decide to.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah this is the issue, I would not keep a pleco in with them...aside from temperatures, a large plec could easily kill an axolotl...I was unsure if there were others though...such as the chinese algae eaters etc.


To be honest, I've never heard of anyone trying CAEs- it might be possible- and they are pretty tolerant of cooler temps, too, as I recall. The other point someone raised about plecs etc still applies, though; the fish will produce extra waste, and given the dual problem that axolotls need clean water, but aren't fond of over-filtering, I wonder if it's worth the constant water quality monitoring.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron Magpie said:


> To be honest, I've never heard of anyone trying CAEs- it might be possible- and they are pretty tolerant of cooler temps, too, as I recall. The other point someone raised about plecs etc still applies, though; the fish will produce extra waste, and given the dual problem that axolotls need clean water, but aren't fond of over-filtering, I wonder if it's worth the constant water quality monitoring.


yeah chinese algae eaters are very tolerant of cooler temps so may give that a try if I can find a large one, with regards to water quality...they are in a pretty large tank (3ft bowfront) and I would not put a large amount of fish in...I have my old fluval 4 internal filter running, and it is on the lowest setting with the flow going against the back corner and also surrounded by a dense plastic plant...there is very little water movement past around 6in away from the filter...and it is almost non existent on the bottom, so whilst maintaining a good amount of filteration the actual flow/movement in the tank is very minimal.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

If you go with cherry shrimp instead of ghost shrimp, you should find they'll breed 
They're fine with the lower temps too. Good little algae eaters. Few live plants for the shrimp wouldn't go amiss if the axy will leave them alone.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ian.g said:


> yeah chinese algae eaters are very tolerant of cooler temps so may give that a try if I can find a large one, with regards to water quality...they are in a pretty large tank (3ft bowfront) and I would not put a large amount of fish in...I have my old fluval 4 internal filter running, and it is on the lowest setting with the flow going against the back corner and also surrounded by a dense plastic plant...there is very little water movement past around 6in away from the filter...and it is almost non existent on the bottom, so whilst maintaining a good amount of filteration the actual flow/movement in the tank is very minimal.


Well, it sounds as if you have thought it through, and worth a try- with the usual proviso that if it All Goes Horribly Wrong you are ready to separate and re-jig.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Christie_ZXR said:


> If you go with cherry shrimp instead of ghost shrimp, you should find they'll breed
> They're fine with the lower temps too. Good little algae eaters. Few live plants for the shrimp wouldn't go amiss if the axy will leave them alone.


I do have some live plants already (mostly oxygenating ones) along with plastic, but am planning to plant it out some more with live plants...and I shall have a look into cherry shrimps, only mentioned the ghost shrimps as I read on another forum that they are 9 times out of 10 too fast for the axies to catch, but the cherry shrimps are not out of the question 



Ron Magpie said:


> Well, it sounds as if you have thought it through, and worth a try- with the usual proviso that if it All Goes Horribly Wrong you are ready to separate and re-jig.


yeah I am making sure to put plenty of thought into it, and hopefully it will all work out ok...if not I have a spare 2ft tank that I can seperate things into should the need arise.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

one thing you do have to consider is the massive prey drive of some axies. i was looking into getting some species in my tank for similar reasons as you (clean up). so i thought id start with ramshorn snails and work my way up. very very bad idea, i had to take them out after 3 days as no matter how much food was available my biggest axie, ice, would not leave them alone. he harassed them all the time and the poor things had no chance. after that i figured that if he was going to annoy something as slow moving as a snail, shrimp or minnows we're going to drive him insane.

rain, the slightly smaller one, gave them a bit of a courtesy bump when i put them in, but otherwise ignored them, so im sure it can work. but while ice is fine with other axies, anything else will be eaten or annoyed until it gives in.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

miss_ferret said:


> one thing you do have to consider is the massive prey drive of some axies. i was looking into getting some species in my tank for similar reasons as you (clean up). so i thought id start with ramshorn snails and work my way up. very very bad idea, i had to take them out after 3 days as no matter how much food was available my biggest axie, ice, would not leave them alone. he harassed them all the time and the poor things had no chance. after that i figured that if he was going to annoy something as slow moving as a snail, shrimp or minnows we're going to drive him insane.
> 
> rain, the slightly smaller one, gave them a bit of a courtesy bump when i put them in, but otherwise ignored them, so im sure it can work. but while ice is fine with other axies, anything else will be eaten or annoyed until it gives in.


yeah I shall be keeping a keen eye on what goes on, and will also provide plenty of hiding places for the fish, plus I will put a wall of plastic plants hanging along the back that will be approximately 12in above the bottom at the lowest point, this will at least give some cover for the minnows/danios...if it all goes wrong then I shall have to seperate them all and re-think who has what tanks etc.


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

I really would give the algae eater a miss, i can find no specific reference to them causing problems but like plecs they may graze on the axolotls slime coating opening it up to fungal or bacterial infection.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

ianxxx said:


> I really would give the algae eater a miss, i can find no specific reference to them causing problems but like plecs they may graze on the axolotls slime coating opening it up to fungal or bacterial infection.


I'm trying to remember their habits, but I've never kept them, except in a petshop I used to work weekends in. Only thing I can really remember is that they were really fast and b:censor:s to catch!


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Ron Magpie said:


> I'm trying to remember their habits, but I've never kept them, except in a petshop I used to work weekends in. Only thing I can really remember is that they were really fast and b:censor:s to catch!


I believe they are vegetarian when young but become more carnivorous and territorial when bigger, the axys would probably try to eat them to , they have a long cylindrical shape which would slip down a large axy without too much probs at up to 3" long.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

ianxxx said:


> I believe they are vegetarian when young but become more carnivorous and territorial when bigger, the axys would probably try to eat them to , they have a long cylindrical shape which would slip down a large axy without too much probs at up to 3" long.


yeah they are territorial, but from what I remember mostly with their own species...I was not aware of them being carnivorous at all...may have to look into them a little more, I would not consider one under 5in long to be honest, as my axies are around 10-12in long, will keep researching before I make any decisions on an algae eater, but have read up some more and danios are supposedly pretty good with axies, and seem to be the longest lasting of fish when put with them....just after a bit of movement in the tank really, the axies are great, and quite active at times...but for the most part it is a bit like having an empty tank....I know that is the joys of axolotls, but thought I would at least give it a go with some fish.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ian.g said:


> yeah they are territorial, but from what I remember mostly with their own species...I was not aware of them being carnivorous at all...may have to look into them a little more, I would not consider one under 5in long to be honest, as my axies are around 10-12in long, will keep researching before I make any decisions on an algae eater, but have read up some more and danios are supposedly pretty good with axies, and seem to be the longest lasting of fish when put with them....just after a bit of movement in the tank really, the axies are great, and quite active at times...but for the most part it is a bit like having an empty tank....I know that is the joys of axolotls, but thought I would at least give it a go with some fish.


 I have guppies and swordtails with my X tropicalis on the same basis- there is a steady attrition,of course, but so far they reproduce enough to keep the numbers up.


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron Magpie said:


> I have guppies and swordtails with my X tropicalis on the same basis- there is a steady attrition,of course, but so far they reproduce enough to keep the numbers up.


I did think about guppies...but with axies bottomless pit stomachs I highly doubt they would survive long enough to even reproduce lol....


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ian.g said:


> I did think about guppies...but with axies bottomless pit stomachs I highly doubt they would survive long enough to even reproduce lol....


 Plus it would almost certainly be too cold for them in an axy tank.


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## Peter5930 (Nov 26, 2010)

ianxxx said:


> Not a lot you can keep with axolotls. I dont know if danios are ok, i keep white cloud minnows with my mine and have kept guppys with then in the past with no problems. The other species which are safe are shrimps and small snails and that is pretty much it.


I have trouble even keeping snails going in my axolotl tanks; they don't eat the biggest snails or the smallest snails, but they eat all the snails in between, so eventually the last of the big adults die out and there are no younger generations to replace them.


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Fish = dinner


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Jazzy B Bunny said:


> Fish = dinner


Not always, some axolotls make no attempt to hunt fish, they may snap at those which swim past past they are not necessarily proactive hunters. Of the five adult axolotls i have only two will deliberately predate fish, the others cant be bothered.


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## ianxxx (Apr 25, 2011)

Peter5930 said:


> I have trouble even keeping snails going in my axolotl tanks; they don't eat the biggest snails or the smallest snails, but they eat all the snails in between, so eventually the last of the big adults die out and there are no younger generations to replace them.


Just as well you have an axolotl pond with about 60 axolotls in then lol, i bet that is full of snails. If any one is interested check peters utube clips out pondquarium - YouTube it is very impressive.


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## Peter5930 (Nov 26, 2010)

ianxxx said:


> Just as well you have an axolotl pond with about 60 axolotls in then lol, i bet that is full of snails. If any one is interested check peters utube clips out pondquarium - YouTube it is very impressive.


Actually, they've nearly wiped out the snails in the pond too. I saw a big snail in the pond yesterday, but I had a look just there and didn't see a single one; there might be some hiding out in the roots of plants, but they're definitely not plentiful. In the big pondquarium where I just have daphnia at the moment and no axolotls, there are masses of snails grazing all over the liner.


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