# confused about nutrobal????????



## Nade8285 (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Guys,
I need help!! I'm using nutrobal for my baby beardy but it says on the container its a calcium balancer & multivitamin supplement, do i need to use a pure calcium powder in addition to the nutrobal?? Its proberbaly a stupid question but i wanna do everything right
Cheers guys


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## imitebmike (Jun 22, 2008)

thats not a stupid question....but currently i am not sure how to answer it myself xD


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## kaaathx (Apr 20, 2011)

Nade8285 said:


> Hi Guys,
> I need help!! I'm using nutrobal for my baby beardy but it says on the container its a calcium balancer & multivitamin supplement, do i need to use a pure calcium powder in addition to the nutrobal?? Its proberbaly a stupid question but i wanna do everything right
> Cheers guys


use calcium dust/criket dust 5 days a week and nutrobal 2 times a week.
nutrobal is too much to use as a constant source and there different vits in each one of some crap. im not sure. but i know u should do it like that ^^


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## Nade8285 (Jul 10, 2011)

cheers for the info, when its time to use the nutrobal do i use the calcium powder as well?


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

Yeah most people do mon-fri calcium, sat-sun nutrabol. It's the easiest way to remember as well. When I did it differently I used to forget what I had used the day before


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## Nigel_wales (Mar 24, 2009)

violentchopper said:


> Yeah most people do mon-fri calcium, sat-sun nutrabol. It's the easiest way to remember as well. When I did it differently I used to forget what I had used the day before


The reason Nutrobol can be lethal if used to regulary is because of the Vit D3 which can be bad for reps if they have 2 much! Pretty sure this is the reason most people only used it twice a week.


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## McToons (May 7, 2011)

Nutrobal contains various vitamins (I won't go into details in order to keep this simple but informative). One of which helps your lizard to process calcium. Lizards which make use of high levels of UVB also get some of this same vitamin from the UV light. The upshot is that Nutrobal is used in conjunction with the light so that they can get the vitamin they need and process the calcium they need. 

This does mean the calcium needs to be provided also, but they have no way of getting it (unlike the vitamin) other than from their food. This is why it's usual for people to dust food with calcium for 5 days a week and Nutrabol 2 days. The beardie will still get the calcium processing vitamin from the UV light for the weekdays anyway. The Nutrabol adds other vitamins into the mix to keep your beardy in good health.

This is how I'm lead to believe it works from the research I've done, if I'm wrong I'm sure I'll be corrected by someone more knowledgeable.


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## Nade8285 (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, mon-fri calcium then sat-sun nutrobal, got it, but do i use the calcium on sat and sunday too?


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## McToons (May 7, 2011)

There's some claims that mixing the two together can cause some sort of toxicity, so far I've not come across anything that confirms this. But since I'm one of those that'd rather be safe than sorry I don't ever mix them.


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## ruthyg (Oct 15, 2010)

I switch from calcium to nutrobal at weekends, so no, I don't combine the 2 at weekends


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## kaaathx (Apr 20, 2011)

Nigel_wales said:


> The reason Nutrobol can be lethal if used to regulary is because of the Vit D3 which can be bad for reps if they have 2 much! Pretty sure this is the reason most people only used it twice a week.


i knew it was something along the lines :whistling2: never take scientific advice from me though. i suck.


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## McToons (May 7, 2011)

Just a note, there's conflicting reports of whether a beardie can overdose on Nutrabol. I've heard both sides say they can and they can't.

I will say however even if it is possible for them to overdose on it I highly doubt it's due to the Vit D3 since this is the calcium processing vitamin and the same one they get from UVB (again I could be wrong). Which would logically mean they could overdose just by being exposed to their normal lighting which is less in strength than in their natural habitat...i.e. direct sunlight


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## hadgo (Jan 1, 2009)

Just a thought but wouldn't the excess vitamins just pass through the body with urine/poo?


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## McToons (May 7, 2011)

hadgo said:


> Just a thought but wouldn't the excess vitamins just pass through the body with urine/poo?


I believe there's a level of overdose with Nutrabol where it causes a state of toxicity. So no that wouldn't just pass through.


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## violentchopper (Jun 20, 2008)

I don't think they can get rid of them that quick. The same thing can be applied with humans with certain vitamins/minerals/foods. We can't get rid of certain things quickly and if we had too much it could kill us


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## hadgo (Jan 1, 2009)

True true, the only reason I thought this was because when I was ill i was drinking loads and loads of fresh orange juice and I thought could all the vitamin C do me any harm? (wierd thought I know) but I read online that it just passes through when you pee but I think its a diuretic or makes your body pee a lot. I'm not sure, I wouldn't run the risk with a reptile though. Don't change what doesn't need changing.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

IM sure when i have a few spare mosnet or a couple of other keepers see this, it will be and interested debate as there is some wrong information posted here lol. There is loads of information on this on the forum with some very detailed threads on it, invovle both myself, Andy (glasgow gecko) and a few others. 

Simple answer, yes you need to provide calcium as well as nutrobol, as the calcium level in nutrobol is, in my opinion, low.

Basically Nutribol is a vit supplement that contains D3 (D3 is what causes calicum to be used. D3 can be obtained from various sources, good UV, supplements, good gut loading and drops. D3 causes the calcium uptake in the body, and thus the calcium is used. With no D3 calcium is pointless. 

You can overdose on D3 but you need to feed it a lot, as well as providing constnat UV and D3 from other sources, which most keepers dont do. 

Mixing nutrobol with calcium is not toxic and will not cause harm, no idea where that came from. 

There are many keepers who use a mixture of calcium and nutrobol with every feed. As without providing D3 in other cources the use of calcium is pointless. However, since you have a beardie im assuming you have decent UV. The beardy should be getting D3 from this, thus providing the majority of meals with calcium and a few days a week with nutrobol will be the best option. 

In addition, the idea that you can overdose on the other chemcials and vits within nutrobol is debated. In the quanity most keepers use them this is unlikly. However, over use, just like in humans is likly to cause liver and kidney damage. 

Hope that helps
jay


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## NicolasB (Jul 11, 2009)

Man am i glad you posted this response Jay! : victory:

I had also never heard of mixing Nutrobal and Calcium being toxic, I been mixing them together for my AWD's for about 8 months now, no obvious signs of illness, quite the opposite in fact, my female is gravid and was taken to someone better equipped last night to help lay and hatch the eggs! :2thumb:

Interesting post thought, gotta love the debates we get involved in sometimes! Looking forward to seeing how it pans out... :lol2:



Spikebrit said:


> IM sure when i have a few spare mosnet or a couple of other keepers see this, it will be and interested debate as there is some wrong information posted here lol. There is loads of information on this on the forum with some very detailed threads on it, invovle both myself, Andy (glasgow gecko) and a few others.
> 
> Simple answer, yes you need to provide calcium as well as nutrobol, as the calcium level in nutrobol is, in my opinion, low.
> 
> ...


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

NicolasB said:


> Man am i glad you posted this response Jay! : victory:
> 
> I had also never heard of mixing Nutrobal and Calcium being toxic, I been mixing them together for my AWD's for about 8 months now, no obvious signs of illness, quite the opposite in fact, my female is gravid and was taken to someone better equipped last night to help lay and hatch the eggs! :2thumb:
> 
> Interesting post thought, gotta love the debates we get involved in sometimes! Looking forward to seeing how it pans out... :lol2:


The mis information and myths assocaited with supplements is scary. Though i admit, in my early days i knew nothing about this. 

There is some massive deabtes on this, including one that involved a few people emailin vettec (makers of neutrobol) for info. We do get a bit carried away lol.

Jay


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## NicolasB (Jul 11, 2009)

Yeah i saw the thread of the email once sent to Vettec, the lengths we go to make me laugh sometimes!

must be honest, Nutrobal is only something I have come across since moving to the UK. In SA i only used Calcium and had no problems with 5 Ig's and a pair of Beardies, and that was over a period of around 7 years! And as far as i am aware, all of them are still going strong...

still trying to figure out how mixing Calcium and Nutrobal could possibly make it toxic... :whistling2:



Spikebrit said:


> The mis information and myths assocaited with supplements is scary. Though i admit, in my early days i knew nothing about this.
> 
> There is some massive deabtes on this, including one that involved a few people emailin vettec (makers of neutrobol) for info. We do get a bit carried away lol.
> 
> Jay


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

NicolasB said:


> Yeah i saw the thread of the email once sent to Vettec, the lengths we go to make me laugh sometimes!
> 
> must be honest, Nutrobal is only something I have come across since moving to the UK. In SA i only used Calcium and had no problems with 5 Ig's and a pair of Beardies, and that was over a period of around 7 years! And as far as i am aware, all of them are still going strong...
> 
> still trying to figure out how mixing Calcium and Nutrobal could possibly make it toxic... :whistling2:


With good gut loading and UV you could technically get away without nutrobol. However, since most people dont gut load correctly or get all the vitamins needed into mass produced livefood, supplementing with vitamins is far better for the animals health, life span and general longevity. 

Why would you leave SA to hear, the reps in SA are awesome. 

I have no idea how it could be toxic, i just can't get my head around it. 

jay


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## NicolasB (Jul 11, 2009)

couldnt agree more, i think most people cant be bothered to gut load correctly, i know I dont always make sure my dubia's are 100% correctly fed, and although they have a constant supply of water gel, the correct veg makes a huge difference...

Why did i leave SA? thats a question i ask myself every day mate! :lol2: Surprisingly the reps there are a lot less in variety than here, i waited 4 years for an Aussie Water Dragon there and still never managed to get my hands on one! i did find a breeding pair, but it worked out to the equivelant of around £600! :gasp:

The usual supects are plenty, snakes, beardies, Iguana's etc, but i left just over 3 years ago and there were only around 5 or 6 types of Gecko's commonly available, im sure much has changed since then, but things like Boscs etc were far from the norm! which is a shame really because most people have the space to give them a really nice enclosure and could probably have one outside as well due to the great weather...

May have to buy some random animals and start thinking of shipping them home... :whistling2:



Spikebrit said:


> With good gut loading and UV you could technically get away without nutrobol. However, since most people dont gut load correctly or get all the vitamins needed into mass produced livefood, supplementing with vitamins is far better for the animals health, life span and general longevity.
> 
> Why would you leave SA to hear, the reps in SA are awesome.
> 
> ...


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

NicolasB said:


> couldnt agree more, i think most people cant be bothered to gut load correctly, i know I dont always make sure my dubia's are 100% correctly fed, and although they have a constant supply of water gel, the correct veg makes a huge difference...
> 
> Why did i leave SA? thats a question i ask myself every day mate! :lol2: Surprisingly the reps there are a lot less in variety than here, i waited 4 years for an Aussie Water Dragon there and still never managed to get my hands on one! i did find a breeding pair, but it worked out to the equivelant of around £600! :gasp:
> 
> ...


So you wernt interested in the native reps then? I would have been out in the wilderness finding them. 

But we are going off topic a little now lol


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## NicolasB (Jul 11, 2009)

It's illegal to keep native species in SA... but that didnt stop me from having a flap necked chameleon :whistling2:

Back to the subject, Nutrobal is a winner, keep the calcium in the picture too and make sure all your animals get well looked after! :lol2::whistling2:



Spikebrit said:


> So you wernt interested in the native reps then? I would have been out in the wilderness finding them.
> 
> But we are going off topic a little now lol


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

NicolasB said:


> It's illegal to keep native species in SA... but that didnt stop me from having a flap necked chameleon :whistling2:
> 
> Back to the subject, Nutrobal is a winner, keep the calcium in the picture too and make sure all your animals get well looked after! :lol2::whistling2:


Really. i assume SA is south Africa (not south america). I never knew it was illigal to keep SA herps, since the export trade from SA and various farms out their is high is assumed you could keep native herps. 

You learn something new every day.

Jay


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## Markscooby (Jun 29, 2011)

Lol quite the debate with a few different opinions, I dont know the scientific side of things but I personally mix the neutrobol and calcium in a salt shaker, 2 parts calcium to 1 part neutrobol and i dust every day which was recommended to me from my local reptile supplier


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Markscooby said:


> Lol quite the debate with a few different opinions, I dont know the scientific side of things but I personally mix the neutrobol and calcium in a salt shaker, 2 parts calcium to 1 part neutrobol and i dust every day which was recommended to me from my local reptile supplier


That is the best way. SOunds like you are doing it perfectly, good on your rep supplier.

jay


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## NicolasB (Jul 11, 2009)

Yip, strange isnt it? I think it has to do with people not giving them the correct care, and if they are in the wild and survive there should be no reason to cage them, thats the basic arguement anyway!

there are loads of "Bloukops" - Afrikaans for Blue Heads (Also known by us as Blue headed Agama's) but catching one is a different story altogether!

I have also seen quite a few "Beardies" in places further north up the coast toward Mozambique, and in Mozambique too, not sure if they are the same thing, but must be from the same gene pool, look almost identical to a Beardy!

@Markscooby - 

Glad to know i am not the only one that mixes my Nutrobal and Calcium! :2thumb:



Spikebrit said:


> Really. i assume SA is south Africa (not south america). I never knew it was illigal to keep SA herps, since the export trade from SA and various farms out their is high is assumed you could keep native herps.
> 
> You learn something new every day.
> 
> Jay


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## verity123 (Sep 1, 2010)

I buy my powder already mixed from the shop, they mix it up in bulk and sell in smaller pots. ive been using it like this for over a year and all my animals are fit and healthy. ive never heard of it being toxic :gasp:


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