# Nike Are Selling Real Croc And Anaconda Skin Trainers!!!



## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Reported in todays papers is that Nike are selling,as a celebration of 25 years of their Air Max trainers,shoes made from real crocodile or real Ananconda skin! They are £1400 and come with 18ct gold lace tips!
I am truly disgusted,I know that there is a massive skin trade throughout the world,but a massive company such as Nike?
Your thoughts please.


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## Iliria (Jan 19, 2007)

thats gross! i doubt they'd want to be skinned for shoes so why should they do it to others


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't see the problem.

I don't get why people get squeemish/outraged about this.

Most of you will own leather shoes/jackets/settees etc and thats only cow skin at the end of the day.

This is no different.

Also if any of you are into designer gear (esp you ladies) most of the designers use things like that for shoes and handbags and always have.


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Iliria said:


> thats gross! i doubt they'd want to be skinned for shoes so why should they do it to others


You've never owned an item made of leather then?


You get equally outraged about the use of leather?


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

Link to the article The Sun Online - News: Fury at croc-skin trainers

For once I agree with the animal rights lot. Don't really think this was done in the best of taste.


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## Dirtydozen (Feb 7, 2007)

yeah but the animal you get the leather from, ie cow is also eaten and not just killed for its skin. Yeah people eat crocodile but its more than likely just killed for its skin, and i doubt there is a very big market for anaconda meat so again they will be killed just for their skin which is why its not very nice. i suppose you agree with killing elephants for their tusks and tigers for their skins also then?????


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

Dirtydozen said:


> yeah but the animal you get the leather from, ie cow is also eaten and not just killed for its skin. Yeah people eat crocodile but its more than likely just killed for its skin, and i doubt there is a very big market for anaconda meat so again they will be killed just for their skin which is why its not very nice. i suppose you agree with killing elephants for their tusks and tigers for their skins also then?????



Elephants and tigers are an endangered species, there no comparison the anacondas/gators in question would have been farmed for the skin in exactly the same way a cow is to make leather.

Just so people know most cows slaghtered for their skins are not eaten, at least not by people. the carcasses are sold off to make things like dog/cat food, sold cheaply to any industry that will buy them.

Cows farmed for leather are farmed for just that, their skin, the farming methods used don't produce cows with nice meat/a high meat yield.

I'm not saying it's nice or anything don't get me wrong but all the big designers (prada, armani et al) do exactly the same thing and always have.


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## Iliria (Jan 19, 2007)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> You've never owned an item made of leather then?
> 
> 
> You get equally outraged about the use of leather?


 sometimes, i know i can be a hypocrit when i do have leather somethings...and i suppose it's not quite that bad. it gets to me when they use skins of rare or endangered things though... i know they haven't in this case but at least we eat the cow that the leather came off..i havent seen crocidile steak in tesco for a while


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## sami (Oct 23, 2006)

the crocodile will most likely be eaten by whoever hunted it, people living like that won't let protein go to waste.

And I say again..

in most cases We DO NOT eat the cow that has been killed to produce leather. the quality of the meat is usually poor. what can be sold is sold what can't is destroyed.

Crocodile meat is sold in the country just not widely because of it's expense once imported etc. In nations where they exsist naturally they are routinely eaten just like anything else that moves  I myself have eaten crocodile. 

Neither crocs nor anacondas are particularly rare in the grand scheme of things, thye are predators and as such exsist naturally in low numbers and always have.

the crocs will be hunted but the condas will be farmed for the specific purpose of harvesting their skin (again in the places where this happens I doubt all the meat is wasted either) other than the treatment (ie husbandry, slaughtering methods) it's simply a farm, probably no less cruel than our own factory farming of eggs/chickens. No different to the killing of baby sheep for our food or the method of killing a cow used to produce veal (available in our local tescos)

The whole process is much the same as any farming over here, an animal that was oringinally wild, captured bred and farmed for a product. Ok so it won't be exactly the same, they won't have laws governing the treatment of the animals as we do so no doubt some of it is cruel/inhumane but thats the joy of different cultures for you. 

I'm not saying I completely agree with it i'm simply trying to point out the things most people don't consider. Leather (etc) is so normal to us that we don't consider that something has been killed/skinned for it, Just because it's a snake or croc dying (to me anyway) does not make it much different, at least not as different (outrageous or disgusing) as people make out.

Let the animal rights people go and visit the argentinian/bolivian/peruvian farms where there leather settees raw materials came from...

Yes this is slightly OTT for a pair of trainers but no more so than handbags or shoes (which have been made from these materials ever since handbags and shoes have exsisted). But not the huge deal people will make out.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

What does it matter whether the cow goes onto the delhi counter at Sainsbury's or a tin of Pedigree Chum? It is, regardless of it's quality, processed within the food chain, and not gone to waste.

I guess if the animals were farmed for this purpose, and are treated and killed humanely, then I would be a hypocrite to say it was wrong.

I wouldnt go in for the fact that the crocs and anacondas are used within the food chain just because of where they come from. Who is to say that these animals arent kept on premises funded, and recruited by Nike themselves. At £1200 a pair, I dont suppose they care where the rest of it goes. Nike make trainers, not burgers. 

Leather shoes stop your feet from smelling, are durable, and last longer than their synthetic counterparts. People dont buy leather shoes purely because they are more in fashion. One cow will likely make more than its fair share of shoes, I dont think the same can be said of an anaconda, unless it was hatched years ago.

I wouldnt buy crocodile or snake skin shoes as a matter of practicality, whereas Cow leather, yes I would. These are all about "Fashion", therefore I won't be buying a pair. I have never in my life owned a fashion accessory that was made of reptile skin, the simple fact that it is a fashion items makes it unethical, and a lot worse that killing a cow. 

I dont give a rat's ass whether they are endangered or not, it's still unethical, and inappropriate for a leading brand to put on the market.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

If you read the relevant articles relating to this story you'll find that the animals are skinned alive,coming from farms in under-developed countries and the meat from the animals is then used to feed back to the next generation to be raised and skinned.Not humanely treated at all I think you'll agree.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

I havent had time yet Barry, but I think I will now it's lunch time. 

If what you say is true, skinned alive......... There is nothing humane, or appropriate about that, it's sickening anyway, but knowing the primary cause is fashion, what a load of wankers. Any sort of petition going around? I'll sign it.......


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

whatever


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## mike515 (Sep 12, 2006)

quixotic_axolotl i gotta agree with you on this mate.

Cows are bred either for leather, or meat. Cows bred for leather have poor grade meat, and meat cows produce poor leather. Therefore the "we eat the skinned cows" argument is irrelevent.

The fact is, crocodile/conda skin in these countries is what leather is to us, purely a resource. These animals are farmed for a purpose, they are bred specifically for this 'job'. Like snake keepers breed mice, to kill and feed your snakes, and lizard keepers breed crickets and hoppers.

The problem is not the usage of these materials, but the treatment of the animal, and like gan1 said, why these materials are used.


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

I dont agree 100% on reptile skin products but then there is no perfect world i would be contradicting because i have a leather coat. What an animal is farmed for whether food or clothing is irrelevant to me the only thing bugs me is the crap treatment they are given. I've seen what happens to cats and dogs in China and it is horrendous, not eating them but how they treat them before they are killed. Kill a crocodile for meat and leather, I dont agree but if it is kille should be humane


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## murinus (Jan 3, 2007)

are there any 'specific' (not just what people think or presume) details on where the crocs and anacondas are 'farmed' i just would imagine it hard to farm anacondas. they dont grow quickly, can be very picky eaters, and hard for a hobbyist keeper to get eating never mind in farmed conditions ? my own guess is they go out and catch wild animals of a big enough size to be useful ? i know the trainers are expensive but surely keeping/breeding anacondas for this purpose wouldnt be viable ? again i dont know, just my opinion ????


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Did cross my mind too, though Nike arent likely to admit to that.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't really have a huge problem with animals skins being used in general, unless of course the animal is endangered.

I do have a problem with inhumane/cruel slaughter for no reason. With paying over £1000 for a pair then Nike could damn well afford to purchase skin that is from humanely killed animals.

And I bet the amount that the countries who are supplying this get back in return is pitiful... Nike makes a huge profit, no one else benefits, and animals suffer.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

People don't want to know how their drugs were tested if they are finding farmed animals inhumane :-|


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

robnissmith said:


> People don't want to know how their drugs were tested if they are finding farmed animals inhumane :-|


That's not strictly true because you validate the millions upon millions of human lives saved because of animal testing in the medical industry... compared to cruelty for "fashion", it just doesn't seem to compare in my opinion.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Athravan said:


> That's not strictly true because you validate the millions upon millions of human lives saved because of animal testing in the medical industry... compared to cruelty for "fashion", it just doesn't seem to compare in my opinion.


I'm well aware 
Although one could say that the revenue created through the industry is some what of a validation to using furrs. Most designer houses make hundreds of millions every year, which pays wages. Harsh sounding, but true. Also, most fashion houses use Mink which are farmed readily and are a pest in most countries.


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I don't see the problem.
> 
> I don't get why people get squeemish/outraged about this.
> 
> ...


its totally diffarent. cows are domestic thay have been bred for this for years.
yes there are crocodile farms which have really helped conserve wild stock so crocodile leather being used is exceptable as long as it is legally bought. 
anacondors on the other hand are not farmed at least not to my knowledge and i very much doubt it with them being from south america and all. there just wouldent be enough money in it so i suspect the skins are poached, this effects WILD stock and thats why (if im correct) its different


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

Nike engaged in cruel and possibly illegal unit production? since when has this been new? bear in mind that most of their trainers are made by 10-16 year old kids in underdeveloped countries for approx £5 a week. then factor in that most of these kids are made to work in very poor conditions indeed. they have to push a thick needle through thick leather with their bare hands, doing one stich will hurt your hands, then times that by hundreds of stiches a day then you kinda get an idea of the real problem. personally, i'd see 50 anacondas robbed of their skins if it meant nike would improve their labor regs. never going to happen but what can you do?


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## whitestorm (Feb 25, 2007)

i'm just totally shocked here 
we are talkin about reptiles, we have them as pets.
it would cause an outrage it it was cat or dogs there were using i'm sure.
yes u might say but there using anaconda and croc.

would tiger skin or lion skin make a difference, no i bet ppl would go crazy at that and there cats.

to me snakes are just as much a pet cat.

i don't have a cow for a pet, cows are for food , shoes and jackets


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

*shakes head in dissapointment*

does that mean that out of two mammals the domesticated one doesnt deserve to be skinned but the other does?

people would go mad at lion/tiger skin because they are ENDANGERED. i'm sure if bengal tigers were as common as deer then no-one would really care too much as long as they were killed and skinned humanely.

i'd eat any animal. just for the experience.


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## Dirtydozen (Feb 7, 2007)

gan1 said:


> What does it matter whether the cow goes onto the delhi counter at Sainsbury's or a tin of Pedigree Chum? It is, regardless of it's quality, processed within the food chain, and not gone to waste.
> 
> I guess if the animals were farmed for this purpose, and are treated and killed humanely, then I would be a hypocrite to say it was wrong.
> 
> ...


 
well put


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

King Of Dreams said:


> *shakes head in dissapointment*
> 
> does that mean that out of two mammals the domesticated one doesnt deserve to be skinned but the other does?
> 
> ...


No what it means is that she is better able to emphasise with the plight of the snake than the cow, pretty much expected given that this is actually a REPTILE forum.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

PS: I am careful to avoid indian leather, because I know of the suffering those poor animals go through before they meet their deaths. It will never stop, there is too much demand for it in the 3rd world countries. There is as much chance of me buying an ivory trinket or a Bengal Tiger rug as there is Indian Leather. And there's probably as much chance of me catching and skinning an Anaconda as there is my wearing it on my feet.

As for eating anything just for the "Experience", WFT ?????????????????? You'd seriously eat a Panda, Gorilla, Asian Elephant, or a Blue Macaw, despite their rarity, to satisfy your own curiosity? How can this be justified?

Also *Shakes Head In Disappointment*


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

gan1 said:


> PS: I am careful to avoid indian leather, because I know of the suffering those poor animals go through before they meet their deaths. It will never stop, there is too much demand for it in the 3rd world countries. There is as much chance of me buying an ivory trinket or a Bengal Tiger rug as there is Indian Leather. And there's probably as much chance of me catching and skinning an Anaconda as there is my wearing it on my feet.
> 
> As for eating anything just for the "Experience", WFT ?????????????????? You'd seriously eat a Panda, Gorilla, Asian Elephant, or a Blue Macaw, despite their rarity, to satisfy your own curiosity? How can this be justified?
> 
> Also *Shakes Head In Disappointment*


if they wernt endangered of course.

issa: do you know what makes me think you are wrong? this little quote from the post:



> we are talkin about reptiles, *we have them as pets*.
> it would cause an outrage if it was cat or dogs there were using i'm sure.


which when followed with:



> i don't have a cow for a pet, *cows are for food* , *shoes and jackets*


seems to me to suggest that the poster feels that cows are for food and their skin and animals kept as pets shouldnt be used for food or their skin. do you see where i'm coming from?


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

yes and no. I can see what you mean, by saying one can't be killed because its a a potential pet and the other can because it isn't, its basically saying one animal has more right to life than another. But you would expect some bias in this case as this is an reptile interest based site.


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

I dont think its even a matter if a biased opinion, just that we are raised to believe it is OK to kill some animals like cows, pigs, tuna and Pheasant, for exotic, rare and domesticated animals is the opposite, whether it be a dolphin, monkey, turtle or cat


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## devilsofdarkness (Mar 26, 2006)

those shoes make me wanna PUKE///the only place crocodile skin should be is on a crocodile


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

i think the point is,most things if farmed will end up back in society at some point,noone argues that its the humanity of it all thats the problem,i dont for one minute believe theres someone out there farming anacondas for nike,i think they are wild caught,probably very pissed off and killed cruely,as for the gator this maybe different as easier to keep in captivity and widly used(wrongly IMO) in fashion,i dont have a problem with ppl eating cows/pigs/sheep or wearing leather/suede etc if the animal has been farmed and killed humanely,and i dont really think anyone else does either,unfortunately many countries do not hold animal welfare high up as we do(or try to) this is why nike are making these trainers elsewhere(and for cheap labour),they must be prepared for the backlash that was bound to happen,they are a massive company and it will have little or no effect on them,i for one think its in poor taste,the laces alone would of been enough to commemorate 25yrs


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## JBJcool (Mar 6, 2007)

i agree with leather coz there mustr be billions of cows but crocs and condas take quite a while to have eggs and they have enough on there plate without being skinned


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

all domestic animals have been bred purely to further our couse, this can be cows for meat, leather etc

of late crocodile and gater farms have really helped wild stock by prividing a sustainable resource of leather for the fashon markets in europe. they also sell products to the japanese who for example believe that the testese of crocodiles help varility or some mumbo jumbo like that. also the exotic meat market is provided with the same sustainable resource as the fashon world.

who knows perhaps gators and crocs could be classed a 'domesticated' in years to come. the could be bearing thicker hides, or more good cuts of meat etc. this would be done through intensive breed development just as cows were developed from a veriety of wild rellatives.

non of the above gets to me, but the anaconders are simply not sustainable !!

i know this is a repeat but i just wanted to be a little clearer

:smile:


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## gaz (Oct 5, 2005)

anaconda farms??????????????????
cows farmed for leather only???????????????
WTF
ive spent a long time working as a slaughterman and never once saw a cow that had been farmed for leather.
also i have lots of contacts across South America and have never heard of an Anaconda farm.
maybe some one can explain where these ideas come from????????
regards gaz
PS:Gucci are one of the biggest offenders in the world as far as importing illegal skins and exceeding quotas so its not just Nike


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

Its not the farming thats the problem I dont beleive there even are farms. Its the fact that the crocs and anacondas are skinned alive and mauled by savage poachers and biopiracy. A huntsman from a tribe kills a snake through blow pipe or whatever for meat is one thing can live with that. Slaughtering crocs and snakes for trainers that no one in their right mind will buy or could even afford.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

Although normally i am against the unnecessary use of animal skin, i do not see the difference here between cow skin and croc skin. Condas i know nothing about and so i cannot comment on them i have however studied the crocodile farming industry.



> agree with leather coz there mustr be billions of cows but crocs and condas take quite a while to have eggs and they have enough on there plate without being skinned


Crocodiles are one of the easiest animals you can farm. They feed them the carcasses and biproducts of other farmed animals and they will grow large quite quickly, reproduce reliably and live in cramped conditions with ease. I am sure there are some unethical croc farms out there, but there are unethical forms of everything if you go to the right countries, fact is that not all countries can afford to have as stringent policy on animal welfare as the UK and you can never know where your meat or leather has come from 100% of the time.

Chickens are kept in battery farms, inhumanely disgustingly, left to fight, catch each others diseases, live in their own excrement, and fed on rubbish. All so we can have cheap eggs and meat. That happens in the UK but is anyone complaining on here? im sure at least one of the people on here had non-free range eggs for breakfast today.

Crocodile farming goes under many regs and inspections in the right countries, and croc meat is actually a huge market. 

However, i do not agree with the statement NIKE are making with these trainers, that its ok to use any animals for fashion, because like many of you that do not know how easily and readly crocs are farmed (because its uncommon in the uk) it gives the impression that other rarer animals can be used to.
I am 100% against wild animals being used for their skin, but its a bit hipocritial unless you are a vegan who wears NO leather or animal products at all to say that crocs are different than cows.
Anyway, you can keep a cow as a pet a whole lot easier than a croc!!!!


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## spider_mad (Mar 8, 2007)

That is true chickens used and slaughtered for KFC are kept in the worst conditions for raising.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

AWESOME!!!!!! f u c k ing love it!!!!!


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

i want the croc skin ones, anaconda skin is rather fragile as i found out when i bought that snake skin thong off ebay. the sack wasnt up to anything.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

*propa joka*



King Of Dreams said:


> i want the croc skin ones, anaconda skin is rather fragile as i found out when i bought that snake skin thong off ebay. the sack wasnt up to anything.


lol lol lol snake skin thong! brilliant! the croc ones look fuc king awesome! i want some 2 but they r incredibly for expensive!!


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

then make your own...ya' know. get a dwarf caiman and a cow and a gold ring and some rubber. and your own....no one need know...


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

King Of Dreams said:


> then make your own...ya' know. get a dwarf caiman and a cow and a gold ring and some rubber. and your own....no one need know...


good paln! any ideas where i can get a caiman? only needs to be little, my feet are so tiny u can barely c them! im not surprised i always fall over, its hard 2 balance! if i use a rubber ring that should save me some money!


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

you need a DWA license to own one, but as youre coming to subsequently rob it off it's skin i dont you'll need it. some pet shops have them.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

is it illegal 2 just skin crocs then? y aint it illegal 2 skin cows? actually owning a caiman would be quite cool!


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

it aint illegal to skin crocs or condas. they arent protected species.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

wow u r really clever! (i realise this could sound patronising and sarcastic but it was actually ment to sound sincere) so what is it illegal 2 kill? what bout elephants for ivory? or tigers for fur?


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

yeah that's illegal. as one, they arent in sustainable numbers at the moment. two tigers are EXTREMELY endangered.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

well they say u learn something new every day! u watching skins?


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

no, i hate that program lol.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

its hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so wot r u doing???


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

posting shi...(i mean poo) n stuff.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

same as!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just keep checking this one actually and talking to u


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

lol the forum has gone slightly mad.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

so have the skins writers.....last week they tried to make tony f u c k his own sister and now he has been hit by a bus and they r all singing!!! odd very very odd


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

hmmm, like eastenders for teens lol. joke.


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## powderpuff_girl (Mar 5, 2007)

yeah i guess so!!! im a little old to be watching this me thinks


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

the best i saw on that program was some woman getting undressed.


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## boa-stu (Jul 12, 2006)

quixotic_axolotl said:


> I don't see the problem.
> 
> I don't get why people get squeemish/outraged about this.
> 
> ...


 i agree totally.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2007)

thats propper sick


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