# Why keep dwa?



## Stickycreambun (Apr 17, 2018)

Hi all. I’ll start with saying I have no particular reasoning for asking other than obsessive interest. I do not, and am not planning on getting myself licensed. I just wanted to know, why do you do it? What is the attraction to people of keeping some potentially very dangerous animals? Personally I could see that for example a Gaboon viper or Taipan is absolutely gorgeous to look at, or some scorps are great to watch.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

I think the danger element only applies to a small handful of people. For most, it's the interest in the animals on a biological level.


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## Stickycreambun (Apr 17, 2018)

Yup I can see that. There must be so much to learn from some of the incredibly complex toxins produced.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I simply can't see the attraction of risking a bite every time I go into give some fresh water or to carry out routine maintenance. 

Personally, I don't agree with private keepers being allowed to keep a DWA listed species as a 'pet'. 

I don't know any keepers that are involved with scientific research directly from their back bedroom either.


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## Zincubus (Sep 6, 2010)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I simply can't see the attraction of risking a bite every time I go into give some fresh water or to carry out routine maintenance.
> 
> Personally, I don't agree with private keepers being allowed to keep a DWA listed species as a 'pet'.
> 
> I don't know any keepers that are involved with scientific research directly from their back bedroom either.




I tend to agree , there's also the needless risk to others if and when they escape !! Gulp !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rolls (Apr 7, 2018)

I think unfortunately with quite a few animals the most beautiful and interesting ones come with ermm... a bit of a punch haha, other than that I thing animals with venom have different behaviours to those without.


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## Stickycreambun (Apr 17, 2018)

That’s another good point, and one that would particularly interest me if I ever considered it is does anyone keeping venomous dwa milk any venom or participate in any scientific research? 
And also, is a big part of the dwa ensuring no animal can escape any further than the contained area?


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

The DWA license is designed and geared towards protecting the general public (as it should be) - not in determining the competency of the keeper or the welfare of the animals. Any conditions imposed would be highly weighted towards the containment of the animal should it escape, for this reason double door entry and/or a viewing window are often required prior to a license being granted. 

I doubt whether any credible company would use a private keeper to provide them with a regular venom supply with a view to conducting scientific research - the sterile conditions required for this would be prohibitive for the vast majority of keepers. 



Stickycreambun said:


> That’s another good point, and one that would particularly interest me if I ever considered it is does anyone keeping venomous dwa milk any venom or participate in any scientific research?
> And also, is a big part of the dwa ensuring no animal can escape any further than the contained area?


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## Outlaw (Apr 24, 2018)

Over the years I have heard a number of private venomous keepers say that they would like to "milk" their venomous snakes and provide the venom to scientists in order to help save lives. While this might seem like a noble cause, it is simply not practical.

Some of the problems are:

*Provenance* - Where do the snakes originate from? 
*Correct species identification* - Need to be certain.
*Captive bred verses wild-caught*. - Venom composition can potentially change through generations of captive breeding.
*Venom extraction *- This is a highly skilled and dangerous procedure.
*Venom processing * - This has to be done following correct protocols otherwise the venom is of no use. 


Although I have extracted venom samples from specimens held within zoo collections, I can only think of one occasion that I have extracted venom from a privately held snake. 

There is no benefit to the Snake, the Keeper or Science in having Private Keepers risking a bite trying to extract venom from their snakes.


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

For me they are more challenging to keep and this maintains your interest. Most do not look any different than less harmful snakes. 

Also they tend to be closer to their kin in the wild. And to be honest there is no other snake that I have come across that has the character of a cobra.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

My dream is a Gaboon viper. Simply because for me along with a Basin ETB they're the most beautiful snakes in the world. It'd love them even if they where constrictors. 

I'd also love to keep some of the DWA inverts. I own a lot of non DWA inverts already. Now I'll happily admit it's not only the look but they fact they're highly venomous that appeals to me.


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## Docxx (Aug 25, 2018)

I'm currently going through the process of getting a DWAL, although I'm just gathering information.

I just want to keep inverts so Spiders and Scorpions. I think the risk is a lot lower with them than Snakes as I can very easily keep them at arms length when feeding and doing maintenance.

I think some of the most beautiful inverts are covered under DWA, like Black Widow and Deathstalker for example.

There is also the fact that not many people have these species due to requiring a DWAL. For me the Danger of envenomation isnt really a factor as there should be no danger as long as I treat them properly and respect them. Much like my Old World Tarantulas.


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## Rolls (Apr 7, 2018)

As far as I know (I could very well be wrong) the licence is more geared towards public and more so environmental safety than the owners, as in not if there's a chance it'll bite you, they're more concerned on the chance of escape and possible living in the wild, this is why fully aquatic animals aren't on the list, there's very little chance of them making a break for it, I think inverts may possibly be the worst in this case, if your little spider gets out and runs under a door or between a crack it's gone, at least with snakes you have more of a chance and the cold will slow them, I mean with beaded lizards you'll probably find it napping in the corner haha.


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I simply can't see the attraction of risking a bite every time I go into give some fresh water or to carry out routine maintenance.
> 
> Personally, I don't agree with private keepers being allowed to keep a DWA listed species as a 'pet'.
> 
> I don't know any keepers that are involved with scientific research directly from their back bedroom either.


Each to their own, I guess. I can't see the attraction of risking being thrown off a motorbike and driven over by an oncoming car, but thousands of people hold motorcycle licenses. You're statistically (per capita) far more likely to have a biking incident than an incident with an animal.



Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> The DWA license is designed and geared towards protecting the general public (as it should be) - not in determining the competency of the keeper or the welfare of the animals. Any conditions imposed would be highly weighted towards the containment of the animal should it escape, for this reason double door entry and/or a viewing window are often required prior to a license being granted.
> 
> I doubt whether any credible company would use a private keeper to provide them with a regular venom supply with a view to conducting scientific research - the sterile conditions required for this would be prohibitive for the vast majority of keepers.


Not venom, no... but there have been a number of scientists who have approached private venomous reptile keepers in the past, about taking DNA samples from certain snakes. I was approached recently by a lecturer, who asked me if I could put him in contact with any friends of mine who keep cobras, that he didn't know already. He has a PhD student who is studying cobras.



GT2540 said:


> For me they are more challenging to keep and this maintains your interest. Most do not look any different than less harmful snakes.
> 
> Also they tend to be closer to their kin in the wild. *And to be honest there is no other snake that I have come across that has the character of a cobra.*


I never thought much of cobras when I first got involved in the reptile hobby. I was a viper guy. I have been converted - cobras rock!


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

If I were able to, I would get a DWAL like a flash. There is just something almost mystical about dangerously venomous snakes. 
There are a number of snakes I have always admired and wished to keep. The DWAA is the obstacle.
Cobras are truly awesome, as are a number of vipers. Saw scales as a prime example. 
But I have to accept reality, I'm never going to get them. I just take the opportunity to gaze at them when I see them in zoos, shops, etc.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

ian14 said:


> If I were able to, I would get a DWAL like a flash. There is just something almost mystical about dangerously venomous snakes.
> There are a number of snakes I have always admired and wished to keep. The DWAA is the obstacle.
> Cobras are truly awesome, as are a number of vipers. Saw scales as a prime example.
> But I have to accept reality, I'm never going to get them. I just take the opportunity to gaze at them when I see them in zoos, shops, etc.


I'm the same really Ian. Not just with DWA but other pets I'd love. Youtube is fantastic for day dreaming.


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