# Ball python and heat



## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

Hey! 

I just moved to a new house and it's solar powered and my snake heat requirements are way too much for the solar to handle so I am trying to figure out how to keep her happy and warm. I just bought some expanding foam insulation that I will line her tank with but I need to know if she will be okay if I only heat her tank during the day and then turn it off at night if she stays above 77 degrees. 

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated! 

Shelby


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

If your solar system is struggling tonheatvone single snake then I dread to think how it's managing an entire house.
Ultimately royals need a near constant temperature day and night. If that's not possible you will jave to rehome the snake.
The foam idea is no good as you will need to remove the snake to allow the foam to be applied and dry and any fu.es to dissipate.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

ian14 said:


> If your solar system is struggling tonheatvone single snake then I dread to think how it's managing an entire house.
> Ultimately royals need a near constant temperature day and night. If that's not possible you will jave to rehome the snake.
> The foam idea is no good as you will need to remove the snake to allow the foam to be applied and dry and any fu.es to dissipate.


^^^^^ This ^^^^^ 

I agree with everything that Ian has posted


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## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

The heat pad uses 1000w/hr vs my fridge at 87w/h so to run it 24/7 is killing the whole house. I can take her out and put her in her travel cage with heat packs for the 8hrs it requires to dry. 

As far as I know she isn't a royal - just a toffino ball.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

hawksby18 said:


> The heat pad uses 1000w/hr


Assuming you mean '1000 watts'. There is no unit of energy measurement 'w/hr'.

That said, I doubt you're running a thousand watts of heat pad. Maybe a thousand watt hours per day (1kwh/day)? That's possible.

'Royal' is the name of the species: _Python regius. _Here in North America we use the terrible common name 'Ball'.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

hawksby18 said:


> The heat pad uses 1000w/hr vs my fridge at 87w/h so to run it 24/7 is killing the whole house. I can take her out and put her in her travel cage with heat packs for the 8hrs it requires to dry.
> 
> As far as I know she isn't a royal - just a toffino ball.


Heat mats are one of the cheapest heat sources going. There is absolutely no way that it uses more than 10 times the energy that a fridge does!
I know that this figure will be out thanks to rocketing energy prices, however when I last saw figures a standard 11W heat mat cost something stupid like 5p an hour to run if left running uncontrolled at full power.
There is equally no way that heat packs will keep your python at the required heat for a sustained amount of time. The foam may dry in 8 hours but it will not be safe to put the snake in. It does need a lot longer due to the odours and chemicals involved.
I'm going to suggest you seriously reconsider keeping your python. From everything you have posted you have little to no knowledge of how to keep the snake, or the means to provide the environment she needs.


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

Even if you bought a 1.2 metre by 60cm by 60cm wooden or plastic vivarium (which would help against heat loss compared to a "tank") and used overhead heat via a 100w ceramic heat element or a 100w heat bulb, the running cost would only be something like half that of the fridge, maybe less. And that would be a better solution than heat mat and "insulating" a glass tank with some nasty stuff. Something doesn't add up with the figures.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

Keep in mind that this is (I assume, since otherwise the question wouldn't be interesting) off grid solar, and so the fridge is probably propane powered with a small 12vdc circulation fan. Solar homes don't use compressor-driven appliances.

OP, if you list the energy budget for the viv in the overall energy budget (one hopes there is an energy budget; if not, knowing the battery bank capacity and a rough estimate of current loads, and an idea of how many days of storage that's supposed to be before the backup generator kicks in) you could get an idea of whether this is even possible either under the solar budget or perhaps changing expectations of generator use. If you describe the viv (size, construction, heating method) and ambient temps, repliers could say whether the amount of power you have to spare could be sufficient or if it is just too high a hurdle.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

I've only posted a details thread regarding the energy consumption my collection of 11 snakes, 10 of which were housed in wooden vivariums heated by ceramic heaters between 100w and 150w. If the OP is using a heat panel rated at 1000w then they have purchased something that is more suited for a bathroom rather than a vivarium. Heck, Retic66's heat panels which he uses in huge 8' x 3' x 4' vivs are only rated at 180w...



Malum Argenteum said:


> There is no unit of energy measurement 'w/hr'.
> 
> 'Royal' is the name of the species: _Python regius. _Here in North America we use the terrible common name 'Ball'.


Correct, the term is Kw/h. It's not a unit of measurement, its the product of power consumption over time.

Nice to hear someone from that side of the pond agreeing that we should stick to the true interpretation of the scientific name for this species. It's not _Python Ballus  _


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## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

So the controller that I have to monitor her heat pad said it uses 1000 watts per hour .. hence the 1000w/hr .... I have taken her tank apart and found her heat pad is only 8 watts so I will be ordering another one of those. I have sprayed the tank to insulate it as I live in Canada our temps drop to -40 so I need all the help I can get. She has been overly happy since being in my care for the last two years, my apologies that I didn't know the scientific name.
Ian...
I was looking for help on heating and insulating the tank not to be told that I am an unfit snake owner you ****.


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## TheHouseofReptilez (Sep 26, 2021)

I don't think Ian was pointing out that you were unfit to be a snake owner in the slightest,

You said you were or have insulated the tank with expandable foam honestly this will make little to no difference as you just said in Canada the temps can drop to minus 40 and lower I know this to be very true from personal experience as I have family who live in Canada and when it gets cold it gets cold no question about it,

I pressume the tank you have has a mesh top in which case expandable foam will provide little to no extra warmth to the snake honestly you would be better off buying a wooden vivarium and fitting a ceramic heat emitter to a pulse thermostat at least that way the vivarium will be able to hold and maintain heat,

A 8w heat mat is not going to provide an ambient temperature in her enclosure what so ever and if the temperature decides to drop to minus 40 she will just freeze to death.


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## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

I will look into the wooden vivarium and see if I can get my hands on one.


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## TheHouseofReptilez (Sep 26, 2021)

hawksby18 said:


> I will look into the wooden vivarium and see if I can get my hands on one.


I would say look on market places in the area you are if you can get one second hand for a good price then go for it,

Hopefully you get sorted out,

This site is a good place to start for items for sale in Canada.

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Basically these are just wooden boxes with glass panel doors, easy enough to make if you have difficulty finding ready made. You could make a carcass in 18mm (3/4") ply or PVC, line that with styrene insulation framed with softwood timber of the same thickness and the clad in 1/4" ply, thus giving you an insulated enclosure that will retain the heat more, especially given how cold your house is likely to get. 

I think the confusion over the heater is that the thermostat is rated at 1000w but the heatmat was just 8w which is not suited for this species. Ideally the enclosure should be heated by a ceramic heater, probably around 150 watts, controlled by a pulse proportional thermostat (the controller) and suitably protected in a wire guard. There are two useful sticky posts at the top of the snake section that are worth reading. These cover general care of these snakes, and a guide to heating, and well worth reading


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

hawksby18 said:


> So the controller that I have to monitor her heat pad said it uses 1000 watts per hour .. hence the 1000w/hr .... I have taken her tank apart and found her heat pad is only 8 watts so I will be ordering another one of those. I have sprayed the tank to insulate it as I live in Canada our temps drop to -40 so I need all the help I can get. She has been overly happy since being in my care for the last two years, my apologies that I didn't know the scientific name.
> Ian...
> I was looking for help on heating and insulating the tank not to be told that I am an unfit snake owner you ****.


So a couple of points.

1. She probably was quite ok in your cate before you moved into a home that cannot supply the electrical power you need to heat the snake. You have asked for help on heating and thats exactly what is being offered. It cannot be helped if you don't like the advice being given. Ultimately if you cannot provide the power for a appropriate heating system then you will have to rehome the snake, it is that simple. If you cannot provide for its basic needs the you cannot keep it. That said, if the mat was just 8W then I'm not surprised the temperature is so low. 

2. At no point have the words "you are an unfit snake keeper" been said. As I have already said above, if your new home cannot provide the power needed to properly heat an enclosure for a tropical species, then you should not be keeping one. You become a bad/unfit keeper when you ignore all the advice given, cannot properly heat the python, but carry on anyway.

The wood viv is a good way forward but I believe theybare very rarely used in the US and Canada so may be hard to get hold of. 

What is concerning is that your mat is just 8W but you said that the solar heating struggles to power that, so how will you be able to run a more appropriate sized heater?


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Your Royal Python definitely needs heat 24/7 and with such low temperatures where you live, you need to look at a good heating source. Some of this is going to be dependent on what you're keeping the snake in, the size of it etc. Maybe provide more information about your current set up?


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

I have to echo Ian's comments. If you can not maintain the basic requirements for the snake then you should seriously consider your position as a snake keeper. Ian is not saying that you are unfit to keep said snake, just that with the change of circumstances you are now presented with a problem that needs to be addressed otherwise your snake will quite possibly not survive the winter. We've pointed you to several threads that outline the needs of the snake and made suggestions on how best you can achieve them. Whatever you do it will cost money, not only to buy the materials, but to run the heating equipment. Now if you can't afford the running costs, or the off grid set up you have lacks the capacity to run a 150w CHE 24/7 via a pulse stat, then the snake should be rehomed. This is in no way a reflection on you as a snake keeper. Worldwide energy prices are soring and we all have to make changes. I've already detailed my circumstances and have had to run my collection on mats rather than CHEs as I simply can't afford the cost of the electricity when CHEs are used. But then (for now) my lounge and spare room where the snakes are kept currently don't drop lower than 23c at night, and even in the winter, remain around the 19c mark, which may result in me having to switch back to CHEs so the snakes health does not suffer. 

One comment is that an 8w heatmat is not sufficient. I was running 18w mats for hatchlings. The mats I've installed are 20w and 28w respectively. Ideally you need to cover 1/4 to 1/3rd the floor area at one side of the enclosure, be that a tub, tank or vivarium.

Another point is that this forum is a UK based forum, and whilst we welcome people form all parts of the world, a lot of our comments and advice are based on trends and husbandry practices in the UK. Over here we seldom experience the temperature extremes you do. Wooden vivarium's are the most common means of housing reptiles, where in other parts of the world PVC, or glass enclosures are the norm. 

Now it's entirely down to you if you take any of the advice we offer or ignore it, that's your prerogative.


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

Malc said:


> Correct, the term is Kw/h.


Somewhat pedantic rebuttal: the correct notation is 'kWh'. I messed up the capitalization in my own post, but the slash mark isn't correct, as it would denote 'per', as in 'kilowatts per hour'. Since 'kilowatt' already has the rate of energy usage built in (one watt equals one joule per second), adding another rate indicator doesn't make sense.

Alternatively, 'Wh' ('watt-hour') is correct but not often used.





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Malc said:


> Another point is that this forum is a UK based forum, and whilst we welcome people form all parts of the world, a lot of our comments and advice are based on trends and husbandry practices in the UK. Over here we seldom experience the temperature extremes you do. Wooden vivarium's are the most common means of housing reptiles, where in other parts of the world PVC, or glass enclosures are the norm.


We really should consider wood vivs here, too. They used to be used more in the US (30 years ago, maybe) and went out of fashion for flashier options that often don't work as well (glass vivs).

On this note, we use radiant heat panels in many situations where UK keepers seem to use CHEs. Just another little thing to keep in mind when translating for US keepers.


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## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

She has ran off the same heater since the day I got her and has never had issues. I had her mat set to 89 degrees and the warm side of her tank was that and cool wide was around 78, I was going to order another 8 watt matt in a large size but now i am wondering why you say that would be unfit if all my digital temps are telling me I have the right temps for her. The humidity of her tank usually sits around 70-80 depending on the day. I use coconut husk and chip for substrate and moss in certain spots for added hides and humidity. I can do 8 watts no problem but it's running 1000 watts /hr that I wouldn't be able to sustain. I am going to try and do what I can with the glass terrarium for now and see if I can find a wooden one if not make one. But she has always been very happy, likes to be held (for the most part), sheds perfectly, currently eating a medium rat with ease and a healthy diet, she would eat more if I let her but she is getting fat so I have been spacing them out to a couple weeks. I will read the links you posted and suggested. Thanks


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

You definitely won't be needing to provide 1000 watts unless you add loads more snakes to your collection. Heat mats would be 10-20 watts, overhead heat 100-150 watts, neither of which is or should be an issue even if relying on solar power.
Or in other words: just because your controller says it can HANDLE 1000 watts load doesn't mean that is what it is using. And I can guarantee it won't be.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Where do you get this 1000w per hour from? - If the heat mat is rated at 8 watts, 20 watts or 100 watts that is the energy it uses. It will have a resistance that when connected to the electricity supply will cause current to flow through the mat. Without going into too much detail, this action causes the mat to warm up. It's the relationship between the supply voltage, current flowing through the mat, and the resistance the mat has that determine the power rating in watts. The Kw/h is used by electric companies to calculate the cost of electricity consumed. A heater rated at 1000w would consume 1Kw of energy, and if you were being charged 10c per Kw/h then the total cost for every hour that the heater is on would be 10c in this example, halve the value of the heater, halve the running cost, double the value of the heater, double the running costs. So you could see from this that a 8w rated mat is going to cost very little to run.

As mentioned above, because the controller is rated at 1000w doesn't mean it will power the 8w mat at 1000w... It means the total load is 1000w, so it can be used to run large heating panels, or multiple ceramics (in the same enclosure) if required. Considering the ideal setup is one thermostat for each enclosure, a 1000w controller is a bit of an overkill, especially if only being used to power an 8w mat. 

I'm quite amazed to hear that the snake is doing so well with only a small 8w heat mat. 8w mats tend to be no more than 8" x 8" (20cm x 20cm) which isn't a lot of area for an adult Royal python. But again, maybe in Canada you have products that we don't so without really knowing the brand etc we can only speculate about its suitability.


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## hawksby18 (4 mo ago)

Yes I understand how the charge works, when I posted I was unaware that her mat was only 8w and was going off of the 1000w posted on the gauge. I bought all of these things prior to having solar when you don't really think about the usage, I will be keeping a similar sized mat and getting a heat gun so I can check her temps. The mat was around 4"x6" the new one I am getting is 11"x6" and is around the same watts. In our old house the temp inside was always warm and her tank never dropped to a uncomfortable level. She also just shed last night since being put in her travel container and seems her happy self so at this point I am not too worried.


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## TheHouseofReptilez (Sep 26, 2021)

I use a 14w heat mat connected to a 600w Habistat pulse stat I keep my Royals temp at 30 degrees celsius even when the stat stops delivering heat to the mat the temp only drops by .1 to .2 of a degree so he always has a comftable temp,

You just do you as keepers we put there needs first.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Is the mat inside the enclosure or is the enclosure sat on the mat? If the latter, you could try placing a sheet of polystyrene under the mat and tub. This should reduce heat loss downwards making the mat more efficient.
I suspect that even if the mat is inside the tub, placing it all on a sheet of polystyrene will still help reduce heat loss and push all the heat up.
Worth a try.


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