# Anyone?



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Hi,

Any one know a species of snake that is non venemous, fast and between 5-10ft? The reason being is to get good reflexes so when im older it will be easier to handle hots.

Thanks 
Mason


----------



## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

Didn't you do one of these already?:hmm:
Ben


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Yeah i thought if i posted her too, i would get the benefit of two sections, as with the snake section you have alot of knowledge which is great and in this section you'll probably have people who had to do this them selves so can recommend the snake they used.


----------



## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

I thought you always hots so they cannot get anywhere near you?

Any Humans reflexes will never be faster than a striking Diamond back for example


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Not all snakes are snappy so your not being specific enough!! Try an ETB or an ATB!! They both have very nasty bites and are reasonably quick and snappy!!:no1:


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

why have you put this in DWA for non venomous?


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

because i'd like to know what non venemous but aggresive snakes the venemous keepers on this forum had to lead up to there venemous snakes.

As that is what alot of the keepers recomend doing, getting used to handling non venemous but fast and agressive first


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

A coach whip is a decent snake to train with although as stated above what kind of snakes are you looking to keep. I have heard alot of keepers recommend practicing with a WC coach whip. Would be a starting point.


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Eric said:


> A coach whip is a decent snake to train with although as stated above what kind of snakes are you looking to keep. I have heard alot of keepers recommend practicing with a WC coach whip. Would be a starting point.


Thanks ill look into it.


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

You'v only got a royal and thinking about an agressive snake then a hot...not saying you cant do, go buy a mamba as a first snake its up to you but have you kept any other snakes?​


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Although i've only kept a royal I've helped at snake sanctuarys before and held alot of snakes including agresive ones, also it really helped me knowledge wise. I am not thinking about getting a hot yet but considering the steps such as dealing with an aggressive non venemous. I'm also not definately getting one. I'm looking into it.

Thanks 
Mason


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Cool, I think hot keepers dont handle there snakes that often, th deadly ones anyway.
I think if you rehomed a aggressive one you could maybe work with it. Or WC Whips. Erm ...


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

snakelover said:


> not saying you cant do, go buy a mamba as a first snake its up to you but have you kept any other snakes?​


What good advice. I try an avoid getting irritated on these forums but why would you post something like this? He want to practice with something fast and aggressive for when he is older that is a smart move in my opinion. Even if he only owns a BP. A coach whip is just a black snake with a serious attitude bites are minimum. They are fun to work with and he will soon learn. 

I just can't find a reason for people to get ignorant over a simple question. Short of a large constrictor or venomous. I would say a beginner with a little effort can keep pretty much any snake they choose. This is not rocket science pretty much anyone can keep a reptile successfully if they so choose.


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Eric wtf are you on about, its people like you who starts these petty pathetic arguments. Did Mcald see what i said how ever you said it? ************************** I am going to hold it all in and not rant! 
I said not saying you cant get into hots etc when only having a RP, you can do what you like, but jw what else have you kept?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT!!!


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

you did tell him to go and buy a mamba as a first hot:lol2: but im not getting involved:whistling2:


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Maybe I misread but it doesn't seem to me he is trying to get a hot anyways relax I'm not trying to get you fired up. Just seems evertime someone without exsperience comes on people dog them out.


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

SIUK i ment go buy a mamba as a first snake becasue its up to you what you do....if that makes better sence.
Eric...i think he wants an aggressive snake so he can get into hots...


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Also he as got experience, just not with hots, thats why he wants an agressive snake, so a hot wont be to much for him. Thats how i read it anyway.


Eric said:


> Maybe I misread but it doesn't seem to me he is trying to get a hot anyways relax I'm not trying to get you fired up. Just seems evertime someone without exsperience comes on people dog them out.


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

snakelover said:


> Eric wtf are you on about, its people like you who starts these petty pathetic arguments. Did Mcald see what i said how ever you said it? ************************** I am going to hold it all in and not rant!
> I said not saying you cant get into hots etc when only having a RP, you can do what you like, but jw what else have you kept?
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT!!!


I did feel your post was a bit aggressive. You could of re worded a bit better and left out the bit about the mamba. But i have no enemies on this forum and im not willing to make any.


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Ok sorry about that.
But are you thinking about getting a hot in a couple years? Thats why you want an agressive snake, so you will have more exerience for when you get a hot?
Soz Evryone


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

I know he wants and aggressive non venomous snake to get it to hots. No doubt about the. The fact he says when he is older and want to learn practice with a harmless snake shows a great deal of maturity. He has to start somewhere and if a mentor is not an option at this point. He has chosen a good path.


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Yeah, I intend to work with them, doing field work with them when im older so we get a better understanding of them than we already have already. But i guess the younger i learn to handle aggressive snakes (not hots yet) the better.


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Also snakelover I'm not getting on you no hard feeling. People tend to get over excited sometimes. Myself included. 

: victory:: victory:: victory:: victory:: victory:


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

mcald said:


> Yeah, I intend to work with them, doing field work with them when im older so we get a better understanding of them than we already have already. But i guess the younger i learn to handle aggressive snakes (not hots yet) the better.


Your on the right track. : victory:


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

I think its safe to say that there are a fair few muppets who go buy a snake cos they fancy one, then have no idea what to do with it... and if it werent the for the DWA system we'd see a lot of idiots keeping hots....

we all want to prevent people jumping in without thinking.... we just all have different ways of wording it 

Even tho this is a DWA forum people without DWA's should be able to ask for advice here, as DWA keepers are obviouslt the best people to ask 

i totally agree that getting a fast aggressive species is a very good way to go to get the experience needed to own hots... we have a fair few that fit that description  i think the next step for me will be non-DWA back fanged species and then hots in the far far distant future.... but thats by the by....

I'd suggest a racer of some sort... still fast and aggressive like a coach whip, but perhaps more readily available....

also, i'd put a post it on the viv everytime it nails you saying "i could be dead now".... have a look after a year and see how many you have 

just my thoughts


----------



## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

"also, i'd put a post it on the viv everytime it nails you saying "i could be dead now".... have a look after a year and see how many you have "

:rotfl: yer supose, but you wouldnt handle a hot as much as an non venomous aggresive snake...
But ye....do you hot keepers handle your snakes much?


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

Even if you handle it more that would would a hot i think it would encourage you to handle it in a different way..... i.e. always using a hook or grab stick, or getting practice at plastic tubing it... 

everyone who has an agressive snake goes for the risky freehandle option when in a hurry or feeling lucky, which normally results in getting bitten  its the kinda thing you cant get into the habit of if you want a hot, and so the post its remind you....

if you're in the US you could make them read "i owe the hospital $XXXXX dollars for antivenom" every time....  lol


----------



## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

mcald said:


> Yeah, I intend to work with them, doing field work with them when im older so we get a better understanding of them than we already have already. But i guess the younger i learn to handle aggressive snakes (not hots yet) the better.


What I'm hoping to do as well, was looking at scrubs, any good for you? I've heard they're snappy and quick though they can get big...
Ben


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

I'll look into it, thanks mate


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

Scrubs would probably get too big to handle on a normal hook like you would most venomous.... you'd need to use a python hook once it reaches sub adult size to avoid breaking its ribs... only really useful if you wanna start with something big and heavy bodied i.e. _Bitis gabonica


_


----------



## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

cat_hendry said:


> Scrubs would probably get too big to handle on a normal hook like you would most venomous.... you'd need to use a python hook once it reaches sub adult size to avoid breaking its ribs... only really useful if you wanna start with something big and heavy bodied i.e. _Bitis gabonica_
> 
> __


No way am I starting with a gabby! I'd actually like to live past 30!:lol2:
Hmm, would you be best getting two different snakes, one to represent the elapids-say a coachwhip and one for the viperids such as a _________(Open to suggestions)
Ben


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

i have been told by most people I have asked that no non venomous snake is going to truely prepare you for venomous, it makes it a bit different when the snake on the end of the hook could kill you with one bite. Everyone really suggests mentoring as the best way in.


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

I'd definately agree with that... i fully intend to try and wheedle my way onto at least one venomous handling course before getting a proper hot... but the aggressive snake keeping thang is a definate start... gets you experience with more than just the handling... you have to think about where you're putting your hands when doing simple everyday stuff like changing water dishes...


----------



## shiva&kaa123 (Jul 20, 2007)

cat_hendry said:


> I'd definately agree with that... i fully intend to try and wheedle my way onto at least one venomous handling course before getting a proper hot... but the aggressive snake keeping thang is a definate start... gets you experience with more than just the handling... you have to think about where you're putting your hands when doing simple everyday stuff like changing water dishes...


I want to find a course but for a start I am still only 14 :x:x:xand I have no idea where I would even find one (when I'm old enough)
Ben


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

shiva&kaa123 said:


> I want to find a course but for a start I am still only 14 :x:x:xand I have no idea where I would even find one (when I'm old enough)
> Ben


I dont know that there is any official course, im not sure how the insurance would work, but you wouldnt be allowed until you were 18 anyway.


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Siuk you are right no non venomous will help you prepare for a hot. What it will do is teach you to use your hooks to transfer the snake and counter act it's movments.


----------



## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeh I have a mexican black kingsnake that is more aggressive than most of the venomous snakes I have ever been around, you touch the glass and he strikes at it, you darnt put your hand in the viv because he grabs and holds on for dear life, he even bites the hook, hes about 3ft and physcotic.


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

So the snakes i've got in mind is a white lipped python, coachwhip snake and radiated rat snake.

M


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

Sounds good. The only thing is don't handle them or they will calm down and defeat the purpose. Course only a little all the snakes selected are known to have permanent attitudes. :no1:


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

Our red-tailed racers (_Gonysoma oxycephalum_) put on the same defensive display as the radiateds..... stunning but scary all the same!!!

here's what you'll get faced with.....










not for the faint hearted!!


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Which one would you say has the most permanent mood, and hardest to handle?


----------



## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Hmm well a python doesn't usually act like most hots, but an aggressive one could keep you on your toes at least. White lips can be a little snappy or a macklots which are usually pretty cheap.
The coachwhip is like rocking horse shit, the chances of finding one aren't good (but if you do hear then let me know ), a racer is much easier but still not that many around. Both snakes need to be kept pretty warm to keep them fast.
A good radiated rat is pretty easy to get and can be great for a little training. 


Another good fast one would be any of the sand snakes, but you do need to only handle them with hooks to get the benefit. They are pretty venomous so a bite isn't wanted.

For vipers well the arboreal ones could be stuff like GTP/ATB, or some of the boiga's or maybe even some of the red tailed racers.

BUT, all snakes are individuals, so even though you might buy one of the 'aggressive' ones, you may well find that they are fairly tame really. My coachwhips are generally very tame, one is even more docile in general handling than any corn.

Mike


----------



## cat_hendry (Jun 21, 2007)

I've seen a fair few radiated rats around on the classifieds recently.... have a look back through... especially shop adverts.....


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

coachwhips definately sound the most agile and aggresive! I'll look into breeders


----------



## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

You won't find coachwhip breeders, even in the US there are very very few.
The odd one or two are imported over here but pretty rare. Shropshire exotics got some in but they are all spoken for I'm afraid, plus there are only two adults. 
Billy at kearsley reptiles had some WC red tailed racers in, a few of those were sporting, one got me with a full bite, hit so hard I couldn't even push the mouth forward any more to unhook the jaw.

Mike


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Maybe Mark Amey at ameyzoo might know some poeple. He is very knowledgable and has lots of experience.


----------



## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, Mark 'may' know someone but I doubt it, as has already been said there are VERY FEW coachwhip breeders. I know of one in the US, and I think that was an accident! I really don't think there are any breeders in the UK, there are hardly any keepers so why would anyone breed them? Again as has already been said, the US CB's are all spoken for! And if you know the hassle we had trying to get coachwhips from the US, it's really not worth it. Speak to Masticophis nicely and maybe he'll let you play with his :whistling2:


----------



## hermanlover (Jul 8, 2007)

get an agressive hoggie, bit of a size difference, but then if you do get bit, you have a bit of venom aswell (not that it will do much, just make you not want to be bitten a bit more)

lee


----------



## serpentkid100 (Mar 7, 2006)

try a coach whip, nasty snakes real quick too, lol
or a racer of sorts


or jus a silly sujestion, 
find a nice big green anaconda or a retic and cover your self in rabit scent and run into its enclosure...lol


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

LOL

People keep saying a mentor is an option, what would a mentor do?


----------



## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

A mentor would teach you the tricks of the trade (so to speak). S/he should discuss and show you methods of handling and moving the snakes safely, there is alot more to handling venomous snakes than there is to handling a coachwhip, with a coachwhip if you get tagged you know that it's not going to be a trip to the hospital. A venomous snake doesn't need to actually bite you to envenomate, they can twist their jaws and stick you with a fang, fangs will go through the bottom lip too, so you need to know where to hold, what you can and can't tail. You would need to treat a cobra and say a rattler differently - but still with the same amount of respect as one another. A mentor will teach you all of that. :blah:


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Wow, it must be great to have a mentor. I don't think i even live near someone with snakes let alone venemous snakes.


----------



## Eric (Feb 26, 2007)

A mentor is the best way to go. The thing is finding someone who is willing to take the time and risk to teach you. You best bet is to ask the sight members on a few forums. See if anyone lives near you and if their willing to teach you the trick to the trade.


----------



## mcald (May 8, 2007)

Im only on this forum but I'll have a look round.

Thanks Mate
Mason


----------



## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

Actually looking at your snakes that you currently have, well I know that there is a fiesty royal at Shropshire exotics (glidergirls shop).

Maybe this would be a good start for you ? It loves going for your face so it would keep you on your toes.

Mike

P.S. Remember that all snakes are individuals. As I said most of my coachwhips are tame.
















Pic's courtesy of Paul (coluber), this is my male western with a customers daughter holding him. So as you can tell he is very very tame.


----------



## serpentkid100 (Mar 7, 2006)

cool snake there


----------

