# My dog just had a fight...



## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

I was walking Rocky round our local field and there was a young boy (aged around 12 I think) walking his dog. His dog was around 3 times smaller then Rocky, I don't know what breed.

They had a football with them and Rocky loves footballs. Rocky went up to them and this dog just went nuts at Rocky. It took about a minute to get them apart. I grabbed the smaller dog as he was the aggressor. The young boy took his dog and realised that Rocky had bit a decent size chunk of his ear off and there was blood dripping from the wound. 

I apologised to the boy, who was getting a bit tearful, and gave him my number to give to his parents incase they wanted to call me.

At the end of the day, Rocky was just defending himself. He has never attacked any dog before, it's just not in his nature.

Am I obligated to do anything else?


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

Jamie said:


> I was walking Rocky round our local field and there was a young boy (aged around 12 I think) walking his dog. His dog was around 3 times smaller then Rocky, I don't know what breed.
> 
> They had a football with them and Rocky loves footballs. Rocky went up to them and this dog just went nuts at Rocky. It took about a minute to get them apart. I grabbed the smaller dog as he was the aggressor. The young boy took his dog and realised that Rocky had bit a decent size chunk of his ear off and there was blood dripping from the wound.
> 
> ...


 
its a tricky one as they were both off the lead i presume? 

hope your dogs ok and your not to shook up


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Yea they were both off the lead. 90% of the dogs in the field are off the lead. Rocky has too much energy to stay on the lead!

Rocky is fine, I've checked him over and doesn't appear to have any injuries at all.


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## chelbop (Jan 27, 2009)

as they were both off the lead there's nothing really either of you can do, should the parents have let their kid out with the dog alone and allow him to let it off the lead if they know there will be dogs running free in the same area? 

End of the day you split them up and their kid didn't get hurt. They should be okay.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

chelbop said:


> as they were both off the lead there's nothing really either of you can do, should the parents have let their kid out with the dog alone and allow him to let it off the lead if they know there will be dogs running free in the same area?
> 
> End of the day you split them up and their kid didn't get hurt. They should be okay.


This. And at least now the parents might have learnt a lesson over it too. The only problem I can see is if the kiddie tells fibs as to what really happened and the parents only believing their 'little angels' story over yours, but I expect you shouldnt hear anything further about it


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

sorry if i have mis read but if your dog went up to a smaller dog that in turn went for yours then imo your dog was in the wrong and the other felt threatened by the approach of a much bigger dog, so felt the need to defend himself and protect its owner.....although this shouldnt happen it can and does, the best thing would of been to recall your dog until you knew the other dog was fine


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

Jamie said:


> Yea they were both off the lead. 90% of the dogs in the field are off the lead. Rocky has too much energy to stay on the lead!
> 
> Rocky is fine, I've checked him over and doesn't appear to have any injuries at all.


 
oooh good glad to hear. i dont think you will hear anything from boys parents . id be wary of your dog greeting strange dogs in future though you dont want your dog to come off worse next time


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

mask-of-sanity said:


> sorry if i have mis read but if your dog went up to a smaller dog that in turn went for yours then imo your dog was in the wrong and the other felt threatened by the approach of a much bigger dog, so felt the need to defend himself and protect its owner.....although this shouldnt happen it can and does, the best thing would of been to recall your dog until you knew the other dog was fine


I understand what you are saying. But I there are a lot of dogs in this field, dogs go up to other dogs all the time. My dog has never shown any aggression towards other dogs, and he was acting playful. 

Fair enough my dog invaded the other dogs space, but that is going to happen in a field where lots of dogs go. I allow Rocky off the lead as I'm confident in his behaviour and he generally comes back when I ask.


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## cazcolecarter (Jan 11, 2010)

mask-of-sanity said:


> sorry if i have mis read but if your dog went up to a smaller dog that in turn went for yours then imo your dog was in the wrong and the other felt threatened by the approach of a much bigger dog, so felt the need to defend himself and protect its owner.....although this shouldnt happen it can and does, the best thing would of been to recall your dog until you knew the other dog was fine


That's insane, if the little dog was so nervous of being approached by bigger dogs that he attacks them, perhaps it's owners shouldn't have allowed a child to walk it off-lead in a public area?!


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I agree. You are responsible for your dog and your dog behaved perfectly well. Fair enough if the other dog was being restrained on a lead, then you could be held responsible as your dog encroached on its personal space or whatever while its owner was trying to control it. As it stands though, both dogs were off lead, yours did nothing wrong, the other one attacked it and your dog defended it. If push came to shove then it's the other owner at fault for allowing a dog that (presumably) they knew was aggressive towards other dogs off its lead while being with a minor. As far as you're concerned your dog behaved in a normal manner and you should not feel responsible for it.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Whatever the rights and wrongs I don't think children should be in charge of a dog in a public place, as much for their own safety as other people and other dogs. What if a dog pulls into the road, what if the child is attacked during a fight between dogs?


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

snakewhisperer said:


> Whatever the rights and wrongs I don't think children should be in charge of a dog in a public place, as much for their own safety as other people and other dogs. What if a dog pulls into the road, what if the child is attacked during a fight between dogs?


I agree with you 100%

BTW the kid is never going to say his dog started it.....

What breed is Rocky?

It makes no difference to me but if the kid goes home and says it was a Rottie or a Staffie you may get a phone-call, just the way people are...

Glad everyone was OK : victory:


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## Pimperella (Sep 26, 2006)

and that is why there is a law stating children under 16 are not allowed to be in full control of a dog in a public place.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Pimperella said:


> and that is why there is a law stating children under 16 are not allowed to be in full control of a dog in a public place.


Didn't know that but i wouldn't be happy to leave a dog with a kid, I wouldn't be happy to leave my dog with my 17yo brother....


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## Simone1989 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah I heard about the 16 or over law when a child was walking a ladies dog in my area that killed 2 of mt friends cats while the boy was walking it...the poor kid was sobbing his heart out as he couldn't keep holdd of the lead...And I aggree with everyone who replied 'both dogs being off the lead means its not your fault' I've walked many of my friends dogs and I always had them off the lead but as soon as I saw another dog in my area I would always call them to my side untill the other dog passed...nowadays you just don't know how dogs will react...some dogs are fine with 'specific' dogs then bam they're fighting with another one...its scary as hell...In future just keep rocky by your side when there's other dogs unless the other owner says not to worry...


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

bobby said:


> Glad everyone was OK : victory:


Everyone except their dog, he's missing half an ear! 



Pimperella said:


> and that is why there is a law stating children under 16 are not allowed to be in full control of a dog in a public place.


I didn't know that either. That may be the reason they wont call me...


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## Simone1989 (Jan 14, 2009)

Just be happy rocky didn't go for his throat...my friends jack russell took down a rott a couple of years ago...went straight for its throat...bad stuff


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Jamie said:


> Everyone except their dog! he's missing half an ear!


Don't beat yourself up, it won't cause the dog much problem, once it stops hurting he will forget about it : victory:


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## rhys s (Mar 8, 2010)

i must say its the other dogs fault and in your stig about people slaging a breed i got 2 staffies and when i walk them people cross the road . 

and my 2 are just a bundle of cuddles . 

but if the other dog started on your dog well its there fault . my staffie dosnt like labradors so when some person witha dog has his off the lead and i get mine on and shout my dog dosnt like labs he still just lets his dog piss mine off . 

its some people these days


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Simone1989 said:


> Just be happy rocky didn't go for his throat...my friends jack russell took down a rott a couple of years ago...went straight for its throat...bad stuff


Eh?

I'm afraid a jack russel is not puncturing a Rottis wind pipe, you would be hard pushed to break a Rottis wind pipe, the cartilage is solid :roll:


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## Simone1989 (Jan 14, 2009)

It caught the dogs artery and the dog bled to death...


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

i didn't know about the law about under 16s. there's a lad near me that has a stafford & they're always together you never see him without his dog. there's no way that lad is over 16 but IMO he has control of the dog all the time. he never lets it off the lead & the dog never seems to pull, just walks next to him.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

It's back to the same old story about age having nothing to do with maturity - it doesn't, does it??


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## Antw23uk (Jan 12, 2009)

mask-of-sanity said:


> sorry if i have mis read but if your dog went up to a smaller dog that in turn went for yours then imo your dog was in the wrong and the other felt threatened by the approach of a much bigger dog, so felt the need to defend himself and protect its owner.....although this shouldnt happen it can and does, the best thing would of been to recall your dog until you knew the other dog was fine


I have to agree with this. You let your dog run over to another dog to play with a football. I would have been mightily p*ssed off if someone let there dog do that to me and my dog without so much of a recall first and a signal to ask if the dogs ok to come over.
Granted his dog 'started' it but at the end of the day your both to blame for this and a lesson has hopefully been learnt.


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## benm767 (Feb 12, 2010)

*hi there*

wht dog do u have


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## benm767 (Feb 12, 2010)

*hi*

hi mate dont want to sound like dick head but my german shepherd bitch always fights but only if the dog looks like a staffie or a dog with toys in its mouth or goes to bite her but shes really very soft .


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

benm767 said:


> hi mate dont want to sound like dick head but my german shepherd bitch always fights but only if the dog looks like a staffie or a dog with toys in its mouth or goes to bite her but shes really very soft .


yep your a moron and your dog should be removed from you and lets hope she does soon before she kills or maimes someones kid or dog.



Jamie i'm sorry to say this so bluntly but theres no point beating around the bush. Your in the wrong. Whether the kid was 12 or 22 he was in full control of his dog and yours was the problem starter. Your dog should not have approached any other dog on or off the lead without full consent from the owner. I get so sick and tired of saying this because people never seem to get it in to their heads.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

I walked around with a GS cross from the age of about 12 (dog would have been about 3 by then) and I never had a single incident but then i've always had a knack for it and loved them for the right reasons.

I agree the under 16 law is a good idea but I'd never make a complaint if the dog was under control....


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Marinam2 said:


> yep your a moron and your dog should be removed from you and lets hope she does soon before she kills or maimes someones kid or dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Jamie i'm sorry to say this so bluntly but theres no point beating around the bush. Your in the wrong. Whether the kid was 12 or 22 he was in full control of his dog and yours was the problem starter. Your dog should not have approached any other dog on or off the lead without full consent from the owner. I get so sick and tired of saying this because people never seem to get it in to their heads.


You're talking crap again.....

The kids dog was out of control in the eyes of the law.....


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

Marinam2 said:


> yep your a moron and your dog should be removed from you and lets hope she does soon before she kills or maimes someones kid or dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Jamie i'm sorry to say this so bluntly but theres no point beating around the bush. Your in the wrong. Whether the kid was 12 or 22 he was in full control of his dog and yours was the problem starter. Your dog should not have approached any other dog on or off the lead without full consent from the owner. I get so sick and tired of saying this because people never seem to get it in to their heads.


I think it's easy to sit behind your computer and pass judgement with so much conviction, but you were not there. I will accept some responsability for this incident, but I've had time to think about it now and listen to other peoples thoughts. It goes down as 'just one of those things'.

Without witnessing the incident, you assume the boy had _*full *_control of his dog? Sorry, but that is not true. 

I was the one who got inbetween the dogs, and once I had finally got hold of the little dog the fighting stopped. If I had got hold of my dog, I'm sure the smaller dog would have continued, then I would have been at risk.

In a field where dog walking is very popular, and around 90% of them are off the lead, dogs will approach other dogs. I allow my dog to do this as I am confident in his social abilities, and he recalls when I call out to him. I would assume that all other dogs off the lead should behave in a similar mannor...or not be off the lead.

I was walking in one direction around the field and the boy and his dog were walking in the other direction, at some point we were going to cross each others paths. The whole incident lasted between 30-40 seconds, it was that quick. That includes the 25-35 seconds of fighting.

My dog has never shown aggression to other dogs....ever.


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## pacman frogz (Jun 30, 2009)

all i am saying if it was a staff it would lock jaw and you would no get them appart but lucky it was not :whistling2:


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## JPP (Jun 8, 2009)

pacman frogz said:


> all i am saying if it was a staff it would lock jaw and you would no get them appart but lucky it was not :whistling2:


that old myth eh?


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## cbreakenridge (Apr 27, 2009)

pacman frogz said:


> all i am saying if it was a staff it would lock jaw and you would no get them appart but lucky it was not :whistling2:


Are you actually being serious? Ive never heard so much rubbish than this.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Sounds like it was six of one and half a dozen of another. You should not have your dog off lead if he has no recall and is aggressive (fair enough you didnt know this at the time but you do now). And they shouldn't have had their dog off lead if it was aggressive either.

I'm with Maria on this - you should have asked before he bounded over to invade their space, but the other dog's owner is stupid for letting a child walk their dog, and off lead too.

Now you've both learnt a lesson. I think the polite thing to do is offer to pay something towards vets fees if they do call. Otherwise take it as a lesson learnt and dont let your dog off lead again unless there are no other dogs about and you have 100% recall. Might be time for some training classes


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

In future I think the best thing to do is not let your dog approach other dogs unless you get approval from the owner first regardless of whether the other dog is off the lead or not. Even if the kid was alone, you shouldn't have allowed your dog to be in a situation where he runs after the kids ball - it isn't your dogs toy to play with. Everyone has a right to enjoy the park without others dogs getting in the way and while many dogs will be happy to say hello, a dog rushing over can put many off, and especially when the other dog is with a child they can be very protective. No matter how confident you are in your dogs social abilities, you should respect the rights of others to excercise their dogs without your dog rushing over.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SilverSteno said:


> In future I think the best thing to do is not let your dog approach other dogs unless you get approval from the owner first regardless of whether the other dog is off the lead or not. Even if the kid was alone, you shouldn't have allowed your dog to be in a situation where he runs after the kids ball - it isn't your dogs toy to play with. Everyone has a right to enjoy the park without others dogs getting in the way and while many dogs will be happy to say hello, a dog rushing over can put many off, and especially when the other dog is with a child they can be very protective. No matter how confident you are in your dogs social abilities, you should respect the rights of others to excercise their dogs without your dog rushing over.


Totally agree with that advice. Whether your dog has been totally unaggressive to other dogs in the past, he certainly has shown aggression when defending himself if he's managed to bite off a bit of the other dog's ear. You have to consider now whether this has changed his personality somewhat into an "attack is the best form of defence" dog, because that sometimes happens after a dog has been attacked.

Also you do have to consider that the other dog may very well have seen your dog as 'about to attack' the child he was with and was protecting the child - in which case who can blame him. Dogs don't always have great judgement and sometimes make bad calls, maybe this is what this little dog did. How do you know that the little dog didn't have good recall and was a very sociable dog before it saw yours coming towards it and its owner??

On what grounds are you assuming that the boy didn't have *full* control over his dog the way you are claiming you had over yours? In your last post it seems to me that you are basing this on the fact that you had to step in and separate the dogs? If so, then you have to take into account you estimated his age at about 12 and your dog was 3 times bigger than his. He might have stepped in and separated his dog if your dog had been the same size, but you can't blame him for not wading in and separating them when the other dog was 3 times bigger! That didn't necessarily prove that he wasn't in *full* control of his dog.

Quite honestly the way that I see it, if you had full control over your dog, you should have called him back when he ran to get the boy's football in the first place.

As you said, you would have had to walk past that boy and the dog at some stage during your walk and you may very well have done that without incident, because your dog wouldn't have been running towards him so he very well may not have reacted.


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## Caz (May 24, 2007)

God there's some crap written here. Staffies locking their jaw? People having full control off the lead?

Reality is your dog went up to another dog who in turn defended his owner by 'attacking' your dog but luckily without injury to your dog (and we all know a lot of small dogs can be a PITA for doing this.)

Your dog bit and caused injury to the other dog. After asking a friend who works in pet insurance technically based on the above and with no other wittnesses your dogs insurance would be liable to pay any vet costs. Apart from that you've done all you can.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I have lived places where the norm is for dogs to not socialise without prior agreement, I currently live somewhere where the norm is for dogs off lead to socialise fairly freely. Without experience of that park it is hard for anyone to judge right or wrong on if your dog should have run up or shouldn't have run up.


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## kevhutch (Feb 18, 2010)

I cant believe some of the posts on here

*Fact*, if your dog is off lead, you are not in control of your dog.
In the eyes of the law, it requires you to be in full control of your dog at all times.
there is no, 'but he started it', they are dogs they dont know laws, and also we dont always read the signals dogs are giving off, they act on body postures, eye contact etc

Both owners of the dogs are to blame whether its the child or its parents for allowing the dog out with the child.

I have 2 boxer bitches and they are always being bitten, snapped at, by smaller dogs, one got her tongue bitten but a small terrier, she yelped but never reacted on it.

If it was your dog that got its ear bitten, would you report it?


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

pacman frogz said:


> all i am saying if it was a staff it would lock jaw and you would no get them appart but lucky it was not :whistling2:


You are all retarded, the above comment was clearly a joke.....

Oh, don't worry about Marnia, she's always a bit :whistling2:, I'm sure it wasn't personal.....


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

SilverSteno said:


> In future I think the best thing to do is not let your dog approach other dogs unless you get approval from the owner first regardless of whether the other dog is off the lead or not. Even if the kid was alone, you shouldn't have allowed your dog to be in a situation where he runs after the kids ball - it isn't your dogs toy to play with. Everyone has a right to enjoy the park without others dogs getting in the way and while many dogs will be happy to say hello, a dog rushing over can put many off, and especially *when the other dog is with a child they can be very protective*. No matter how confident you are in your dogs social abilities, you should respect the rights of others to excercise their dogs without your dog rushing over.


That's something that people often forget, when I used to look after the Rottweiler there was a guy that used to come over and see him (the guy had kept Rottweilers before and was aware of our dogs many problems) , one day I had him out with my mates nephew and he wouldn't let anyone near me or the kid, the same thing continued in the house with everyone but me....

My GSD x was probably the softest dog I've ever met never mind owned and we did see some protective behaviour when we were out, she would never have allowed anyone to stand between me and her....


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## Jamie (Nov 18, 2007)

So...after some constructive posts and a lot of stupid ones, it seems I should offer some cash if they call? 

Neither one of us were in *full* control of our dogs because they were both off the lead? I'll agree with that.

Naturally I don't want to be out of pocket and I'll always defend my dog. But I'm big enough to admit there was fault in mine and my dogs actions, I will still say my dog acted purely in self defence though, he is not aggressive and is well trained. But I can see reasons why the smaller dog reacted in such a way. I'm happy I've done as much as I can at the moment. The boy took his dog off home and I could have walked off, but I called him back and gave him my phone number incase his parents wanted to speak to me. 

Pets can be unpredictable and accidents happen, thats life. This incident happened so quickly that there was no time to check with the boy about the nature and temprement of his dog.

It is amazing how different the responses are on RFUK compared to a better forum I use. People on here are always quick to take the moral high ground and lecture about the correct way to do things. How perfect they must be. No room for accidents or mistakes.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

Jamie said:


> So...after some constructive posts and a lot of stupid ones, it seems I should offer some cash if they call?
> 
> Neither one of us were in *full* control of our dogs because they were both off the lead? I'll agree with that.
> 
> ...


What's the better forum?
Is it just better because marnia isn't there? :whistling2:

You delt with it the same way I would have, my dog doesn't get off the lead but every other dog I've ever owned was rarely on a lead!


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

Simone1989 said:


> Just be happy rocky didn't go for his throat...my friends jack russell took down a rott a couple of years ago...went straight for its throat...bad stuff


thats just proof that it doesn't matter what breed it is! poor rotty! 

came far to close to that issue my self today its scary stuff!


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## cazcolecarter (Jan 11, 2010)

Jamie said:


> I think it's easy to sit behind your computer and pass judgement with so much conviction, but you were not there. I will accept some responsability for this incident, but I've had time to think about it now and listen to other peoples thoughts. It goes down as 'just one of those things'.
> 
> Without witnessing the incident, you assume the boy had _*full *_control of his dog? Sorry, but that is not true.
> 
> ...


 
Don't worry Jamie, even a 'dog friendly' dog will bite if attacked, that's nature. I had a boxer bitch growing up that was a nightmare with other dogs. Which is why I walked her on a short chain lead with leather handle and she always wore a baskerville muzzle. The only time she was off-lead without a muzzle was at 2am in my local woods. You are not in the wrong, however it is something you need to keep in mind for future walks


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Jamie said:


> So...after some constructive posts and a lot of stupid ones, it seems I should offer some cash if they call?
> 
> Neither one of us were in *full* control of our dogs because they were both off the lead? I'll agree with that.
> 
> ...


I think that's a bit of an over-the-top reaction. On any forum you will get differences of opinion - that's the nature of people! It would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything.

Whether you choose to offer any cash towards the vet bill *if* they call depends on you - no-one on here has said that you should, although I think someone mentioned that you might like to consider it, as the other dog came off worse than yours, as a gesture of goodwill because both dogs and both owners were technically to blame.

No-one has said your dog acted aggressively or started the fight and everyone has agreed that you did the best you could in the circumstances and at least you didn't walk away and absolve yourself of everything.

I think you got a fairly well balanced set of replies from members on here, some for, some against, which is what will happen with every scenario you present because we are all individuals and will all see things differently.

However, I do find myself wondering what sort of response you got on the "better forum" and why you asked for any advice from this one, when you think we aren't as good as another one you frequent?


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## *mogwai* (Feb 18, 2008)

*wants to know what the better forum is* :whistling2:


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

teshu said:


> *wants to know what the better forum is* :whistling2:


me too, I'm developing a reputation on here that's not good, I need new victims...


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