# Do frogs mourn?



## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

As some of you are aware i resently got a pair of whites tree frogs, unfortunatly one died before i got it.  So now my froggy is all alone in a strange new home. I put him in his terrerium when we got home, he went in the corner and has just stayed there, i have got him out of the corner a couple of times, but he just goes back there, i have not heard a peep out of him and haven`t seen him eat. It has been 3 days now, is this ok?:help:


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## harryallard (Apr 19, 2008)

maybe cos it's spent a large portion of it's life with the other frog it's just not used to being alone.
i doubt they can mourn, but i think it's just used to living with the other frog and is unsure of the new change
poor guy


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Nope.

Nothing to do with the other frog being there or not.

More pressing for an amphibian is that he's in a new environment and instead of having a chance to get used to it, you keep hassling him out of what he's clearly chosen as the most suitable place to sit  No wonder he won't eat yet he needs to be left alone!

Give him time 
Lotte***


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> Nope.
> 
> Nothing to do with the other frog being there or not.
> 
> ...


i agree with this lady


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

So do i. I think it would be quite ludicris to think that a frog is capable of realising that the other had died.
Your frog is merely experiencing shock and change in a new environment.

Marina


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok, I do not "hassle" him i just checked on him twice in two days as i don`t know what his mate died of and would hate for him to die in a corner somewhere and me not know. 
Also so why is it " Quite ludicris"? They feel pain don`t they?
I thought this was the place you came if you had a question? Maybe you lot think this is the place people come to have harsh words used against them????? If you have knowledge to share you should incurage questions no matter how silly you think they are! You don`t get any where by not asking! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## FreakOonique (Oct 1, 2008)

tinks30 said:


> Ok, I do not "hassle" him i just checked on him twice in two days as i don`t know what his mate died of and would hate for him to die in a corner somewhere and me not know.
> Also so why is it " Quite ludicris"? They feel pain don`t they?
> I thought this was the place you came if you had a question? Maybe you lot think this is the place people come to have harsh words used against them????? If you have knowledge to share you should incurage questions no matter how silly you think they are! You don`t get any where by not asking! :Na_Na_Na_Na:


awww poor froggy. I hope he picks up for you soon xxx


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

difficult question really. some species of frogs are much happier in a colony and thrive much better due to the security one has i.e. there is a smaller chaqnce of being the prey if theres other frogs as your neighbour frog, for instance, could get eaten instead.
nobody is sure tbh what emotional capabilities amphibians and reptiles have, although there is research being done on certain species of snakes to see what their brains are capable of.

the fact that your frog is hiding, very quiet and reluctant to eat would make me more sure that stress and a new environment is the possible answer to the problem. However what did the other frog die of?
Theres many easily transferable fungal infections that are common in frogs and other amphibians and theres also the possibility of parasites.


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks for that Pliskens_Chains.
We think that he was wrapped up a little to well (too warm?) for his trip to me, but we are not sure. I am told both were eating well before they were made ready to travel.


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

tinks30 said:


> Thanks for that Pliskens_Chains.
> We think that he was wrapped up a little to well (too warm?) for his trip to me, but we are not sure. I am told both were eating well before they were made ready to travel.


 being too warm is as bad as being too cold, where did you get them from if you dont mind my asking.
If you contact the supplier you may be entitled to a replacement.


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

It was a private sale and i have had a refund, the sell was really upset too. They don`t have anymore. I have posted in the classifieds, but this guy is about 2" and all i can find are little ones.


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

tinks30 said:


> It was a private sale and i have had a refund, the sell was really upset too. They don`t have anymore. I have posted in the classifieds, but this guy is about 2" and all i can find are little ones.


 hmmm
have you tried www.dartfrog.co.uk
or even pollywog on here?
theres also paws for thoughts Amphibians | Paws for Thought | Leeds
paws for thoughts dont always have all their stock on the wesite so its worth giving them a ring.


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## Eleanor Jones (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm sorry you are having trouble. As I have found (from bad experience ) its best if you are in control of their conditions under transport. And even then it can go wrong. Stress can be a significant factor in itself, from being moved, as well as physiological stress from sudden temperature changes etc, I guess. Sometimes you don't know what went wrong, just deal with what you have and move on. You can only do your best with each one. Sorry I can't offer helpful advice, but good luck.

Also, I don't think it was a stupid question about mourning! Who knows what they are capable of? I have had a couples of poison dart frog which were very close with each other, but jointly chased off froglets they had produced, while they were still tiny froglets!


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks guys! 
I have emailed both those links thanks! Fingers crossed. 
How long is he ok to go without food?


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Saedcantas said:


> Nope.
> 
> Nothing to do with the other frog being there or not.
> 
> ...


Sorry Tinks, I don't think my post was rude or unnecessarily strong, just to the point 

"Hassling" is just a word you choose to interpret however you like, I meant it in terms of what you moving him might seem like from the frogs perspective 

Working with a couple of hundred amphibians daily, I'd say with confidence that I do not see any "emotion" in these animals, they are working purely on instinct and at best learnt conditioned responses. They don't get attached to one another and don't "miss" one another in any greater sense than the furniture in their environment is different which may temporarily stress them. 

I 100% encourage people to seek knowledge and do myself when I need to and help others in their search too  Don't be put off and try not to be oversensitive 

Any chance of some pics of your froggy? So we can assess how urgently he needs to eat?
Lotte***


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

Unfortunatly my pc is infected, so i am having to use my daughters laptop, which isn`t set up to download photo`s. He doesn`t look thin.


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

I've wondered if frogs/toads mourn too. About six weeks ago my cane toad, Hermione, lost her 'parter', Ron. She's had some trouble eating since then. The thing is, they used to sit together quite a lot, and Ron would sometimes get in the hide with her and sit on top of her (he wasn't trying to mate). She does seem a bit sad. Maybe she's just not used to being alone as someone has said, but I wouldn't underestimate phib's abilities to miss their own kind.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

I dont think they can mourn as many dont hesitate to eat their own kind! They probably just feel stressed as being alone may mean (to them) that a predator has taken the other or the area is no longer safe, suitable and the others have left. Again this depends on species. My darts do interact with each other, follow each other around and generally like being in the vicinity of the others, my red eyes however dont really seem to notice each other unless one makes a sudden move and the others stare at it for awhile.


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## tinks30 (Nov 2, 2008)

Oooooo. Good point Javeo! But humans can be cannibals too and we still mourn our dead.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

haha, indeed. But its not even close to the norm. Most higher animals do not eat their own kind, though some may eat closely related species. Lions kill lion cubs but dont eat them but will eat cheetah or leopard cubs. Also mourning requires the knowledge of death and permanant loss, and i do doubt herps have tha capability.


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