# Staffy breeders



## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

I am sick to death of seeing litters of staffy pups being advertised daily...when is this going to stop? This is an issue which is very close to my heart being a staffy owner myself, and I hate to see what's happening to the breed and to each individual dog as a result of this problem. I know this happens with other species of animals and breeds of dogs as well, but I'm just talking about this problem for now.

I don't know what can be done about this, I don't think these people will ever stop breeding them, but maybe by passing the word we can make them realise the damage they are doing to these poor dogs? 

Classifieds from all over the internet are FULL of staffy litters being advertised, and where do they end up? in kennels, rescue homes, dog fights, dead....it's really sad and it makes me really angry as well. Why are we so thoughtless as a species, that all we care about is the money and not about the life and future of another being?

This is mainly a rant that I just needed to get out on here...I'm also looking for any ideas of what can be done to help this sort of problem...not just with staffs but with other animals like ferrets, cats, snakes and all the other animals that mainly end up in rescues for the rest of their lives


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Unfortunately until there is no longer people out there who are only interested in making a quick buck and dont care what happens to what there producing this problem will never stop. As you rightly say it isn't just Staffs it is alot of commercial pets that cover every species there is out there. Campaigning does no good as the type of person who does this just doesnt care and never listen. The only thing we can really do is hope that rescues continue to survive that have a no kill policy and for us to all do our small part in taking in those rescues we can. I have ! rescue dog 3 rescue cats, two rescue lizards, 2 rescue rats, and 7 rescue gerbils living with me at the moment but over the years I have probably rescues over 100 animals and rehomed them once they have been rehabitated and I know they are back to full health. This is the only way i see that can help and I will continue to do so for as long as I can as i hate that there is so many that end up dead due to know fault of their own other than being born


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

My OHs mum got offered a staffy puppy for free the other day because they could no longer keep it, they paid £900 for it!!! I was sooo shocked!! I had no idea people still paid outragous amounts for a staffy pup! 
(In the process of convincing her the cats will get used to a puppy :whistling2


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

sammy1969 said:


> Unfortunately until there is no longer people out there who are only interested in making a quick buck and dont care what happens to what there producing this problem will never stop. As you rightly say it isn't just Staffs it is alot of commercial pets that cover every species there is out there. Campaigning does no good as the type of person who does this just doesnt care and never listen. The only thing we can really do is hope that rescues continue to survive that have a no kill policy and for us to all do our small part in taking in those rescues we can. I have ! rescue dog 3 rescue cats, two rescue lizards, 2 rescue rats, and 7 rescue gerbils living with me at the moment but over the years I have probably rescues over 100 animals and rehomed them once they have been rehabitated and I know they are back to full health. This is the only way i see that can help and I will continue to do so for as long as I can as i hate that there is so many that end up dead due to know fault of their own other than being born


I know  that's exactly what I thought...those type of people just don't care...this is the type of thing that makes me hate people. 

Yeah, I guess either by rescuing them ourselves although a lot of people couldn't afford to or have the space to do that...I guess donating small amounts to rescues helps as well. 

We've rescued some ferrets before and kept them for about a year before circumstances completely changed, but we got them all back to a healthy weight and did some training, and they now live not far from us with a lovely couple who love ferrets and have kept them for over 30 years so I know they won't be passed around and will be taken care of 


em_40 said:


> My OHs mum got offered a staffy puppy for free the other day because they could no longer keep it, they paid £900 for it!!! I was sooo shocked!! I had no idea people still paid outragous amounts for a staffy pup!
> (In the process of convincing her the cats will get used to a puppy :whistling2


£900??!??!?! that is beyond ridiculous? most staffs go either free or for about £50 up to £250 usually..


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Looking down preloved (and some here TBH) I am shocked how many people are selling animals because they have to, but also then seem to wish to make sure they get back what they paid, or even make a profit. Rescues full of Ferrets, but then people wanting you to take on theirs that they HAVE to get rid of, but want you to pay lots more than they likely paid for them. 

I understand people saying that pets should not be given away free but really there must be a line. With so many rabbits, ferrets, guinea pigs etc at this time of year (ie kids gone back to school, bored of the pets their parents got them at the start of the summer holidays and parents not wanting to go out in the cold to care for them) how can people really believe their over inflated prices are going to be paid?


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

The staffie issue is horrific right now, the number that get put down is ridiculous, hundreds every week, even tiny puppies, it's sick. 
IMO if you want any pet dog you should look to rescue first. Fair enough if you want a champion bred show dog or well bred sport dog, then a bred puppy is fine. But the rescue I foster for have had 2 chihuahuas in their care now for near 12 months, both currently cuddled up on my lap, chihuahuas used to be rare as hens teeth, but now hardly anybody is taking on dogs and these littluns are stuck in foster homes while the few people that can afford a new dog buy pups.


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

Devi said:


> The staffie issue is horrific right now, the number that get put down is ridiculous, hundreds every week, even tiny puppies, it's sick.
> IMO if you want any pet dog you should look to rescue first. Fair enough if you want a champion bred show dog or well bred sport dog, then a bred puppy is fine. But the rescue I foster for have had 2 chihuahuas in their care now for near 12 months, both currently cuddled up on my lap, chihuahuas used to be rare as hens teeth, but now hardly anybody is taking on dogs and these littluns are stuck in foster homes while the few people that can afford a new dog buy pups.


I live in a block of 6 maisonette's there's 4 dogs two are mine the other two are staffs,

Down my entire road I think there is one other rotty the rest I think are staffs.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Exactly Kat it is hard to see how we are a nation of animal lovers when see a small minority who do this sort of thing just for the sake of money. Personally my other pet hate is those who have a pet for ex amount of years and then just due to having a baby on the way the pet is rehomed. If the pet is properly trained it should not be a problem to have both in the same household, I mean yes i know there are exceptions like a 20 foot python etc but in most cases it is a cat or a dog or a small furry pet.

Em_40 yeah I cn beleive they did spend £900 for it if it were a pedigree staff which to be honest are getting harder to dfind as most that you see advertised are usually staffy crosses and sometimes the crossing to me is just a powder keg waiting to go off qand yet still they are being bred without any regard for the consequences.

Devi wish i were nearer to you as i would love to snap them up if they would accept cats and the rescue would allow which is not likely as I live in a flat rather than a house and i find that even though i have a lovely place to walk my dogs directly across from me they wont let me adopt as i have no garden.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

darren81 said:


> I live in a block of 6 maisonette's there's 4 dogs two are mine the other two are staffs,
> 
> Down my entire road I think there is one other rotty the rest I think are staffs.


I bet I can guess how many of the staffs are neutered, zero! The situation is so bad that some vets actually offer free or cheap neutering, these are profit making businesses that are happily losing money to not have to put down any more lovely staffs.


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

£900 for a pedigree staf, I only paid £350 for my pedigree rotty the next week I saw a kc reg one for same price.

Ive seen kc reg dobermans from £400 - £700 and that was 250 miles theres hardly any about.

Round here 80% of must be some sort of staf I know rotts are meant to be popular status dogs but on a regular basis I only see two others.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

sammy1969 said:


> Devi wish i were nearer to you as i would love to snap them up if they would accept cats and the rescue would allow which is not likely as I live in a flat rather than a house and i find that even though i have a lovely place to walk my dogs directly across from me they wont let me adopt as i have no garden.


They are cat friendly but we think we may have found a home up near sheffield, just trying to get them there! 
However the rescue do rehome to people in flats and have dogs nationwide in foster. Most little dogs are fine in flats tbh! Have a peek over here - TLDR


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

Devi said:


> I bet I can guess how many of the staffs are neutered, zero! The situation is so bad that some vets actually offer free or cheap neutering, these are profit making businesses that are happily losing money to not have to put down any more lovely staffs.


Ive never asked but bet your right one of mine are done the rott will be done later this year as the vets told me I need to wait 12 weeks after she's been on heat.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Devi I most certainly will have a look and see if there is any suitable for me and my situation as I am always up to adopt a rescue if i can

darren81 youw ould be surprised the price of some breeds out there I mean a good pedigree dog can cost over £1500 depending on the breed and funnily enough these new designer breeds you know the mongrels with fancy names like yorkie poo chorkie etc can cost more than a kc registered pedigree papered crufts winning champion line puppy as mad as that sounds I mean technically one of my dogs is a yorkie poo as he is a poodle cross yorkie but to me he is just a very loveable rescued by me from a complete idiot cross breed dog lol.


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

sammy1969 said:


> Devi I most certainly will have a look and see if there is any suitable for me and my situation as I am always up to adopt a rescue if i can
> 
> darren81 youw ould be surprised the price of some breeds out there I mean a good pedigree dog can cost over £1500 depending on the breed and funnily enough these new designer breeds you know the mongrels with fancy names like yorkie poo chorkie etc can cost more than a kc registered pedigree papered crufts winning champion line puppy as mad as that sounds I mean technically one of my dogs is a yorkie poo as he is a poodle cross yorkie but to me he is just a very loveable rescued by me from a complete idiot cross breed dog lol.


I know how much some are just couldnt believe the price on that staf not that Im saying I dont believe you.

Most expensive ive seen recently in British bulldogs for a £1000 I know there is many at a higher price.

For round here I probably paid a lot. As the most common price is bruv may mates got staf you want one lol. Sad but true in to many places.

Got offered two for nothing.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Iknow it is a great shame darren we get alot offered to us around here or next to nowt or like in the case of my two six month old kittens you get a knock on the door and a person stands there witth somethig wrapped in a towel looks up at you and says been told you can find homes for animals I cant cope with these anymore due to having a baby and they are 12 weeks old can you find homes for them for me pleas. On opening up the towel you see 2 tiny little kittens who are in fact no more than five weks old so you end up taking them in and raising them to 12 weeks only to find you have let your autistic cat get far too attached and think of himself as mummy to be able ot rehome them at all so end up with 5 cat instead of the 2 you only ever intended to home lol


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

sammy1969 said:


> Iknow it is a great shame darren we get alot offered to us around here or next to nowt or like in the case of my two six month old kittens you get a knock on the door and a person stands there witth somethig wrapped in a towel looks up at you and says been told you can find homes for animals I cant cope with these anymore due to having a baby and they are 12 weeks old can you find homes for them for me pleas. On opening up the towel you see 2 tiny little kittens who are in fact no more than five weks old so you end up taking them in and raising them to 12 weeks only to find you have let your autistic cat get far too attached and think of himself as mummy to be able ot rehome them at all so end up with 5 cat instead of the 2 you only ever intended to home lol



Its the same with all animals now domestic and reps, We spend a lot of our money on pets but we dont drive, smoke or go out drinking all the time or drugs of any sort, So we have are pets.

We dont breed are pets to make a profit not that im completely against breeding but with the pets I have I dont see a reason as there are far to many about.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

Totally agree with you hun I am the same we dont drive wish i did due to being disabled but nope also dont drink or do drugs other than those prescribed by the Doc lol and have even gone without food so my animals can eat or have vet treatment as even though i am entitled i dont use subsidised vet care ie pdsa etc unless i really have to. 
Also like you I am not against breeding when it is done properly to improve genetics etc but when done just to make a quick buck by idiots who havent done there research it just makes me want to strangle the participants tobe honest


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

There is 4/5 staffy litters a week in our local paper, and I'm always hearing 'oh such and suchs dogs just had pups' fleetwood have just set up a scheme called stop unwanted pets, where basically anything can be done for free as long as you live in fleetwood.
Round here a staff is the dog to have, I know of only 4 other GSDs, 3 rotties and 4 Akitas all which are deemed 'status' dogs. But I see 25-30 staffs a day, all with an undesirable person on the other end of the lead


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## funky1 (Jun 18, 2008)

A lot of the problem these days with Staffs is that in many cases ppl just don`t know what they`re actually buying either. There`s a right nugget headcase near me, in and out for GBH and always in court for flouting the terms of his APB licenses, who`s now banned from keeping dogs due to fighting them etc (obv only a small technical detail to him) but he has a harem of APB`s that he keeps at all the smack heads houses (they bring them up for a bit of money and kudos/protection), plus some licensed ones at `friends` houses - he just crosses them to Staffs/other pit type dogs, and sells on all the puppies for even bigger money due to the added blood, to all the others who need these X type dogs, coz they can only back their own mouths up with the mouth of a dog! 

I used to hate Staffs etc for all they represented etc, but that was entirely due to seeing our, then 12 week old, GSD savagely attacked in our garden a few year ago by one of these X type dogs and being told it was just a Staff (and then finding out it was one of his) - I don`t thing there is such a thing as a bad dog, just the wrong dog with the wrong owner.....found out the one that attacked my dog back then, was a strong, fit, virile and playful powerhouse of a dog, that was kept locked up in a 1 bedroom flat 24hrs a day, only let in the FRONT garden for a poo - so in some ways at least `forgivable` that it didn`t even know what playing meant 

Personally, I think one small solution would be to bring back licences for ALL types of dog - with severe and enforced punishments for not keeping them in good health physically and mentally, with a training course you had to do to get your licence (weed out all the apathetic little idiots easily), make them expensive (with provision to get your money back if all vet appoinments are met, jabs upto date, dog weight acceptable), and above all, make all dogs and owners go to obedience and training classes. Any one who loved animals wouldn`t think twice about having to do it, esp` if it was the only way they could get their animals - small price to pay.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

funky1 said:


> Personally, I think one small solution would be to bring back licences for ALL types of dog - with severe and enforced punishments for not keeping them in good health physically and mentally, with a training course you had to do to get your licence (weed out all the apathetic little idiots easily), make them expensive (with provision to get your money back if all vet appoinments are met, jabs upto date, dog weight acceptable), and above all, make all dogs and owners go to obedience and training classes. Any one who loved animals wouldn`t think twice about having to do it, esp` if it was the only way they could get their animals - small price to pay.


The people you should stop keeping dogs are those that do not care about the current dog laws and will not care about these laws you suggest or any other laws. Getting a staffy free from their mate down the road will still be them getting a staffy free from their mate down the road, how do you suggest to enforce people paying at all let alone finding a way to enforce them paying more and then getting a reimbursement?

The people who you WILL stop getting dogs with measures such as you suggest would be the little elderly ladies who want a pet for company. They would not afford the extra money up front and to be honest when buying a pet I am not sure I would ever trust any person to hold on to my extra money and then give it back after a certain amount of time! Although saying that around here I have more issues with badly behaved terriers owned by elderly owners without a clue than I ever do with young people and status dogs, in fact the latter is an issue I have never encountered.

Not even going to start on the question of who you suggest to provide the training as I can honestly say I, as a keen amateur, know more about dogs than a number of people who I have met wearing the title of "Dog Trainer" and there are a great deal of people reading this thread who know a great deal more than myself I am sure.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

The thing that reallllly gets to me the most is that....

Most of these dogs being bred and sold are not Staffordshire Bull Terriers. They are Staffy crosses. Staffies must be the only breed you can cross with another breed and still call them Staffies. :bash:

Unless the dog is KC registered with papers and the pups are too they are nothing more than cross breeds.

And I realllly wish people would stop calling there dogs Staffies when its very obvious there not. 
I have seen adds on here selling Staffy pups that are clearly not Staffies, there nothing more than cross breeds.

And then you have the dumbass people who actually think they are Staffies and buy them. Therefore encouraging the Back Yard breeders to carry on breeding! And then the home ends up chucking the dog out when it doesnt end up looking like they want it too.

TBH A licence for breeding needs to come in, and everyone who breeds should have to chip/tattoo there dog/pups and be irresponsible for that dog/pup for the rest of its life. Oh and they should have to pay tax on there income from selling dogs..lol


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Kare said:


> Not even going to start on the question of who you suggest to provide the training as I can honestly say I, as a keen amateur, know more about dogs than a number of people who I have met wearing the title of "Dog Trainer" and there are a great deal of people reading this thread who know a great deal more than myself I am sure.


Having one of my dogs ruined by one of these so called trainers and spending the last two years fixing him up by my own methods (clicker training and other positives) I'm 100% with you there.
I've even met a few calling themselves behaviourists which is a title for people who studied animal behaviour to degree level, yet they claim to be self taught. If I went around saying I was a psychologist with no qualifications I'd be arrested, yet people seem to think this is fine!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

darren81 said:


> £900 for a pedigree staf, I only paid £350 for my pedigree rotty the next week I saw a kc reg one for same price.
> 
> Ive seen kc reg dobermans from £400 - £700 and that was 250 miles theres hardly any about.
> 
> Round here 80% of must be some sort of staf I know rotts are meant to be popular status dogs but on a regular basis I only see two others.


I know, didn't believe it myself, but that's what they say they paid, they may have been exagerating I guess but there isn't that many staffs in Malvern. Here our rescue is full of staffs, but in Malvern suprisingly the dog seems to be trail hounds. I never would have paid £900 for a staffy when there is loads needing homes anyway...


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

em_40 said:


> I know, didn't believe it myself, but that's what they say they paid, they may have been exagerating I guess but there isn't that many staffs in Malvern. Here our rescue is full of staffs, but in Malvern suprisingly the dog seems to be trail hounds. I never would have paid £900 for a staffy when there is loads needing homes anyway...


To be fair we had a guy on a rescue forum a few months ago breeding 'rare' blue staffs and expecting to sell for 1000+. We showed him various pedigree blues that had been stuck in rescue months. Hopefully he skipped the breeding after that.


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## miss_mystra (Jun 24, 2010)

oh i could cry everytime i see so many dogs, the majority being staffy types, listed on gumtree etc... there's just too many back yard breeders breeding for profit, or people just naively giving it a go without thinking of the consequences for these pups.

Any genuine breeder worth their salt with tell you - don't breed, not because they don't want competition but because it's bloody hard work and a huge commitment, and a lot of heartache and emotional burden, (although so rewarding when it goes right no doubt). It's not something to take lightly... and it's a shame so many people do.

I agree it should be the law to neuter your dog (unless there is a health issue confirmed by a vet). If it's not neutered it requires a license, which will cost money. Sadly like someone mentioned in a previous post the low-lifes breeding for fighting etc don't care much for the law.

To be honest the little :censor:s round where i'm from who do it and treat these dogs so badly have the same attitude to human life, popping out kids with each other every 5 mins for the benefits and getting them taken off them (yep we had a smackhead in the flat upstairs who let her toddlers run into the main road while she was off her head) and replacing them again with new ones... if they can treat their kids like that then there's no hope for their dogs. :whistling2:


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Stats from todays paper - 20 dogs a day being killed


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Devi said:


> To be fair we had a guy on a rescue forum a few months ago breeding 'rare' blue staffs and expecting to sell for 1000+. We showed him various pedigree blues that had been stuck in rescue months. Hopefully he skipped the breeding after that.


I thought it would be a 'blue' because I know someone here sells them for a similar price, but actually this puppy is all white, but apparently 'rare' also.



Kare said:


> The people who you WILL stop getting dogs with measures such as you suggest would be the little elderly ladies who want a pet for company. They would not afford the extra money up front and to be honest when buying a pet I am not sure I would ever trust any person to hold on to my extra money and then give it back after a certain amount of time! Although saying that around here I have more issues with badly behaved terriers owned by elderly owners without a clue than I ever do with young people and status dogs, in fact the latter is an issue I have never encountered..


I've never had problem with 'status dogs' either, I don't think staffords have it in them to be anything more than a snuggle monster anyway, do they? I mean, 'round here I don't think they are crossed with pits and they aren't used for fighting either. I don't see many staffys on my walks around the feild anyway, they seem to stay mainly in town. The most trouble I get is from terriers and chis who belong to old people who don't keep them on a lead and they run over and bite my dog. I have trouble with boxers and labs too, with their owners not calling them back. The trouble being those breeds are jumpy and hyper and my dog hates them. :blush:


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## miss_mystra (Jun 24, 2010)

i do quite like staffies too, and if i was owned my home rather than renting i'd happily rescue one. The smack-head who lived above my mum had one that was an absolute sweetheart despite not ever being walked and then mysteriously vanished after said smackhead said she wanted breed her. this poor dog had been bred from previously at far too young an age.... i'd told my mum again and again we should have just taken the dog and kept her safe somewhere, but we didn't want to risk trouble from these people.

Just seen an ad on gumtree that sums up another problem

8 week old 'staffy' up for sale because the owner's landlord wont allow dogs. Don't people check these things first????!

However on the flip side, i have heard people being allowed dogs in a rented place, having it in writing etc all fine and then the landlord changes their mind on a whim one day.

There is a real lack of places that allow pets in London, mostly you have to dig deep through all the letting agents etc to get past the blanket 'no pets' rules etc... it's a nightmare. we are allowed our snakes and fish but nothing furry or free roaming... although our royal likes to go wandering LOL... it's really hard when you don't own your home to have the security to bring a pet into your home, even if you're allowed you don't know when a landlord will suddenly up the rent come renewal time or just change their mind. i think, as more and more people rent rather than buy nowadays, that more should be done to promote responsible pet ownership to landlords so that they see that as long as its kept clean etc that there's nothing wrong with allowing pets!

Personally i know if things go wrong, i can move my pets to my mums place. but not everyone has a backup plan. Its all well and good moving a fish or some snakes round but you can't really do that with a dog.. i feel very sorry for those who are genuinely in a jam and have to rehome their animals


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## trunx (Sep 29, 2008)

i have a pattx'old tyme' staff dog. i was lookin a pure patt at the time, but the wife seen him and fell in love so we got him.

anyway, were i live i would say 3/4 of the dogs about are bull terrier cross breeds of some type or full bred staffs.
an elderly neighbour of mine was out with her corgi a while back, in a local park. her dogs was on the lead as usual. a woman walked passed with a staff/staff mongrel on an extending lead. it then proceded to maul the corgi and make a mess of it.

i grew up with irish staffs, kc staffs and pitts as my da used them for weight pulling and kc shows so am quite fond of the breed/s. but the irish staff and pitt are outlawed and the kc staff is so watered down its unreal.
personally id like to see the ban enforced and the kc staff at least have some kind of legislation.................


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

cloggers said:


> There is 4/5 staffy litters a week in our local paper, and I'm always hearing 'oh such and suchs dogs just had pups' fleetwood have just set up a scheme called stop unwanted pets, where basically anything can be done for free as long as you live in fleetwood.
> Round here a staff is the dog to have, I know of only 4 other GSDs, 3 rotties and 4 Akitas all which are deemed 'status' dogs. But I see 25-30 staffs a day, all with an undesirable person on the other end of the lead



Make that 2 gsd's then it sounds exactly like round here..


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## trunx (Sep 29, 2008)

'status' dog is not something i understand. is it meant for use with strong dogs?
whatever it means its just downright silly.................


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

My dog is a 13 year old husky/akita x staffy, who was dumped at the RSPCA at that age.
He is ugly.
He is a bit smelly.
And I wouldn't part with him for anything.
People shouldn't breed as many Staffs as they do, but the same could be said for a lot of reptiles.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

Kat91 said:


> I am sick to death of seeing litters of staffy pups being advertised daily...when is this going to stop? This is an issue which is very close to my heart being a staffy owner myself, and I hate to see what's happening to the breed and to each individual dog as a result of this problem. I know this happens with other species of animals and breeds of dogs as well, but I'm just talking about this problem for now.
> 
> I don't know what can be done about this, I don't think these people will ever stop breeding them, but maybe by passing the word we can make them realise the damage they are doing to these poor dogs?
> 
> ...


I haven't read all the thread so sorry if anything I type gets repeated...

Sadly I think until the government steps in and does something to stop the breeding or restrict it in someway I don't think anything can be done, loads of people like save the staffies etc keep trying to bring attention to problem, but it doesn't seem to be working. 
I would say advise people not to buy staffie pups, but the thing is most people don't now, and yet people still continue to breed. 
There is NO excuse, if you have a dog get it done, people like spaywatch etc are willing to help with the costs....so honestly people do not have a good excuse to breed them other than sheer stupidity. 
One thing that is certain is something needs to be done and soon, I ahve seen first hand the state the pounds are in and the amount being pts is sickening.......Mans best friend...if only that was the case still.


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## darren81 (Aug 13, 2009)

trunx said:


> 'status' dog is not something i understand. is it meant for use with strong dogs?
> whatever it means its just downright silly.................


Think status dogs mean as image like you look hard if youve got a pitbull or a rott, staf ect.

I never heard of it till after I had my rotty I got mine as I fell in love with them when I was a lot younger which the reason for me.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I have said before and will say again that the old line that all should spay and neuter being the be all and end all of all "Do not breed" discussions will never work alone.

Yes people should spay and neuter if they have no reason not to, but so many people are simply completely naive to any thing about seasons and having an intact bitch...or for that matter an intact dog.

The majority of vets in this country will thankfully not alter a dog before the first season or else the vets will not spay until at least 6 months and in some cases by this time the bitch is close to in season and once in season the bitch gets caught and pregnant. 

The dog is allowed to get pregnant as the owners know nothing of seasons and how to avoid pregnancy and they know nothing of seasons because all advice is just people parroting about to spay and neuter and NOONE is educating about what you do if you do not spay or neuter or at least have not yet.


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## Mirf (May 22, 2008)

marthaMoo said:


> TBH A licence for breeding needs to come in, and everyone who breeds should have to chip/tattoo there dog/pups and be_* irresponsible*_ for that dog/pup for the rest of its life. Oh and they should have to pay tax on there income from selling dogs..lol


 :hmm:


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

The thing is on one site I'm on there are four people wanting staffy puppies and 2 who want UNSPAYED bitches. When they are told about staffy rescues or the fact that every single dog in the council pound is a staffy or a staffy x they say they wouldn't trust a rescue dog and want a puppy so they know its not vicious. So even the people buying these dogs don't understand that they are not the psycho killing machines they are portrayed to be. To me that in itself is hugely worrying. I don't think they fully understand that these dogs won't just sit there looking tough and most of the ones I have met including my own won't even bark. I really can't see a way to stop it, the people breeding these dogs will not abide by any law set down about spaying and neutering or licenses.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

daikenkai said:


> The thing is on one site I'm on there are four people wanting staffy puppies and 2 who want UNSPAYED bitches. When they are told about staffy rescues or the fact that every single dog in the council pound is a staffy or a staffy x they say they wouldn't trust a rescue dog and want a puppy so they know its not vicious.


I used to try to educate these people but now my attitude is if they want puppies I'll find them puppies. So many staffs and crosses come into rescue pregnant, there's plenty of homeless puppies to go around.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

There's not many puppies around here, not 8 week old that sort of thing as everyone wants them at that age, its when they get to 8-18 months they end up in rescues but at that age they're no longer cute so people don't want them. There's an absolutely gorgeous 18 month old girl at the council pound here and even she can't get a home. If I could I'd snap her up! It's truly heartbreaking and when i see the stereotypical staffy owner wanting a pup or an unspayed bitch it really angers me. Why can't they see what's really going on when its staring them in the face? :censor:


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

daikenkai said:


> There's not many puppies around here, not 8 week old that sort of thing as everyone wants them at that age


What area are you in? If you want any finding I'm happy to give it a go.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Im in Dundee in Scotland. : victory:


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

daikenkai said:


> Im in Dundee in Scotland. : victory:


17 week old staff in scotland
Not a tiny pup, but pretty close.


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## daikenkai (May 24, 2007)

Wow I didn't see him on their page! You're magic! lol. I'm off to give the link to every puppy hunter I can find. And also try not to fill in the rehoming form myself. lol Thanks!


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## retic lover (Sep 23, 2008)

This is a really bad problem, I am a manager at a dog rescue and we only take death row dogs (dogs that are about to be put to sleep) and most are bull breeds of some type. At the moment we have 2 Staffys, 2 Staffy crosses, an American Bulldog and an American Bull cross. All have great personalities but dont like other dogs so they always get overlooked (apart from the one I have taken home:2thumb. I think a lot end up in the rescues due to a lot of bad press recently, which i dont think they deserve.

Also, Staffys are a very boistrous breed and people don't take this into account before they go out and buy one of these lovely dogs. Staffys have always been know as one of the best breeds to have as a family pet
as they get on well with kids and tend to be very tolerant. As mentiond before I think this awful term 'status dog' puts people off as they think all 
Staffys are killers. All you Staffy owners will have witnessed this; you're walking down the road with your little pal, minding your own business and someone will walk around the corner and :gasp: oh no its one of those killer dogs I'd better cross over (it always makes me chuckle).

Now regarding breeding, well this really needs to be looked at with most breeds not just Staffys. I have seen some awful things in my job which, as a dog lover breaks my heart. I dont want to see piles of yellow bags with perfectly healthy friendly dogs in them:devil:.

I think a law should be made along the following lines:

When you buy a dog you have to pay a licence fee say £1000 and you have to get the dog spayed, micro chipped and insured. You then get a licence which you have to carry with you whenever you're out with your dog. Then, if you get stopped by dog warden or the police you show your licence and every thing is OK, you go on your way. Sorry, missed a bit out:blush:!!! All your details and the dogs are kept on a national database like a MOT on a car . If you don't have the appropriate paper work the dog is taken from you then spayed, microchipped etc and the dog is put up for re-homing and the previous owner gets a large fine.

I know this would take time to take affect but think this is a good idea.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

retic lover said:


> When you buy a dog you have to pay a licence fee say £1000 and you have to get the dog spayed, micro chipped and insured. You then get a licence which you have to carry with you whenever you're out with your dog. Then, if you get stopped by dog warden or the police you show your licence and every thing is OK, you go on your way. Sorry, missed a bit out:blush:!!! All your details and the dogs are kept on a national database like a MOT on a car . If you don't have the appropriate paper work the dog is taken from you then spayed, microchipped etc and the dog is put up for re-homing and the previous owner gets a large fine.
> 
> I know this would take time to take affect but think this is a good idea.


In real life of course you have, as per the prior suggestion earlier in the thread, made dog ownership too expensive for a number of lower income homes, especially retired people, home all day and offering near on ideal homes for dogs.

The people who are unfit to own dogs will end up in the following way:-
They give not a toss about the dog they own, don't care for the laws, will either not walk the dogs at all or happily hand over the dog to the Dog warden/Police/whatever because they can always go down the road and get another from their mate who also have dogs that are unlicensed and unwalked and producing litter after litter.

The poor dog ends up in a home, then destroyed as who is going to rescue dogs when it costs £1000 a go?

The scum owner gets another dog, which their kids (they likely have a ton of kids) prefer as it is a puppy, which again they don't risk walking until the point it is old enough for them to be ready to replace for a younger model.

As to that fine you mention "are you having a laugh, I don't have to pay fines, Im on benefits" The worse the law could do is pop the scum in jail for a month, where they get free food and better care than those elderly in care homes who are the reason the whole story above is not written in German!!!


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## retic lover (Sep 23, 2008)

Kare said:


> In real life of course you have, as per the prior suggestion earlier in the thread, made dog ownership too expensive for a number of lower income homes, especially retired people, home all day and offering near on ideal homes for dogs.
> 
> The people who are unfit to own dogs will end up in the following way:-
> They give not a toss about the dog they own, don't care for the laws, will either not walk the dogs at all or happily hand over the dog to the Dog warden/Police/whatever because they can always go down the road and get another from their mate who also have dogs that are unlicensed and unwalked and producing litter after litter.
> ...


 
I missed out :: when you buy a dog from a breeder. 

and the amount was just plucked from my head

And low incom homes can go get a dog from the pound for a minimal cost
which has been spayed,chipped ECT.


Have you any better ideas???? and have you seen at first hand the awful
things i see day in day out..


And as I said it was only an IDEA ...


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

was going to post a huge post of about why i think some of these posts are ridiculus , but instead i will just say how can u say a KC registered staffordshire puppy with champions in thier heritage , free of L-2HGA and HC is not worth £500+ ? if a breeder has taken the time to study the breed and get the best out of the gene pools , they would not let it go to someone who a few days later cannot keep it , they will not allow it to go to a rescue as all breeders i know take thier puppys back to rehome it themselves. 


I suggest you get to know responsible breeders , the health problems with in the breed and what it takes to own the breed before buying a pup and pay for quality. 


Buying for your next door neighbours anti social asbo collecting "staff" owneing son , will allow you to own a dog that is from a cross somewhere down the line with an illegal pitbull , that will eventually snap , maim your kids/grandchildren or carry genetics that will have them suffering from epileptic seizures, gait, tremors and muscle stiffness


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

and just to add to the suggestion of a dog license. RSPCA are trying to get the dog license back in the UK , they are also suggesting charging people like the blind to own a dog when thier whole way of life depends on this animal. its a bloody joke!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

retic lover said:


> I missed out :: when you buy a dog from a breeder.
> 
> and the amount was just plucked from my head
> 
> ...


I have seen a number of things, and have been heavily involved with the removal of German Shepherds from Ireland to foster homes and then permanent homes in the UK

What rescue again was you said you ran/owned? Unfortunately there are rescues and then there are rescues, as we all experienced last year any animal hoarder can put a sticker on their car and claim to be a rescue.

You are very aggressive when someone points out hiccups in your plan, surely as someone heavily involved in rescue you have gone over this idea so many times, even if only in your own mind. Missing out vital parts of your plan and plucking random numbers from the air seem very odd things to do if this is the case.

The discussion of getting a dog to cost more from a breeder than a rescue would be a good idea, but there is no way to control it. Make dogs cost more to buy and you just end up with more people out there joining in on breeding just to make money from it. We all know really the only way to make a profit in breeding dogs is to not do it right and I think with there being a fee to keep a dog (say your £1000 figure again) there will be more people thinking they will have just the one litter...you know to make back their costs!

Having come from less of a "Nanny state" country (though current government changing that fast) I have to say the UK attitude of if you don't like it make a law does not work well and is unlikely to ever do so in this situation. 
I think education is the key, maybe the RSPCA rather than making more begging ads to add to their vast income and spending time whining about the situation and taking people to court over wills could actually help animals in this country and start a info-mercial campaign. 

Don't fight those making unhealthy dogs, just educate on mass people in how to find a healthy dog. The info is out there, but it is being preached to the converted...or at least the educated, those that know nothing about dogs genuinely do not know just HOW little they know. There should be no way the average people who knows nothing about dogs should be able to avoid the information that should they one day decide to get a dog that this is the way to do it. Even though the info was kick started by programmes like PDE, it was really watched only by those already interested to some degree in animals.

Once everyone knows that getting a healthy dog takes measures such as making sure parents are tested and in some cases that pups are tested for issues and more importantly how much more it costs in vet bills than what you save in initial sale price of a untested dog you make it very very hard for bad breeders to sell untested badly bred animals (not impossible, you always get muppets, but eventually the idea of admiting you were conned by a bad breeder would be something people laugh at you about rather than those people who feel proud they "rescued" their little trixiebelle from a bad breeder...just for bad breeder to make more puppies for more people to "rescue" at £500 a pop), make it close on impossible for them to sell them you make it close on impossible to make a profit. Make it impossible to make a profit and you remove 99% of the inspiration for all these people to breed at all...ever. You think there would be this many staffies out there now if there had not been a profit from breeding them? The market for staffies is flooded and i think we will see a reduction in their numbers, it may rise again a little and then drop again, a few new waves occur, but overall I think the peak has hit and over years numbers from here will drop...of course the breeders will then look elsewhere for cash...akitas seem to be up and coming as a popular breed everyone and their Grandson wants.


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## retic lover (Sep 23, 2008)

Kare said:


> I have seen a number of things, and have been heavily involved with the removal of German Shepherds from Ireland to foster homes and then permanent homes in the UK
> 
> What rescue again was you said you ran/owned? Unfortunately there are rescues and then there are rescues, as we all experienced last year any animal hoarder can put a sticker on their car and claim to be a rescue.
> 
> ...


 
RIDIUM - I completely agree with what you are saying but unfortunately some people do not seek out responsible breeders...they are the sort of people that should not be keeping dogs, especially the 'status dogs' that seem to be causing the problems for responsible dog breeders and keepers. I also agree that charging the blind/deaf/disabled for their assistance dogs is completely wrong as, like you say they are helping these people and are often their only link with the world outside of their front door.

KARE - Firstly I didn't say which rescue centre I am manager of but we have a strict rule that we don't put healthy dogs to sleep whether they are aggressive or not. Aggressive dogs are rehabilitated and rehomed wherever possible and if they can't be rehomed then we keep them in the centre as permanent residents. All dogs at the centre (boarders, rehoming dogs and permanent residents) are walked 3 times a day in our 3 acre paddock. I have not just 'decided' to call myself a rescue centre I work for somebody who has been established for over 20 years and are a registered charity.

Secondly, as I said I just had an IDEA, it is not something I have been milling over forever, it was just something that came to me as I have been reading about problem dogs, especially Staffy types.

As for me being aggressive, I think you have completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick here I am just passionate about dogs and their wellbeing. With regards to your comment regarding 'e-penises' I find this quite insulting you don't know me from Adam so I would be greatful if you would keep your opinions about me to yourself.

At the end of the day we all have a common demoninator here - that dogs should be bred to be healthy and happy, not as a money maker for some unscrupulous people and that they deserve to have an owner who respects them and treats them well...


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## miss_mystra (Jun 24, 2010)

i agree, instead of just screaming out NEUTER NEUTER NEUTER there does need to be more in depth education about WHY, i think some people just think that you need it done for fun or something! More facts about the risks and expenses etc of breeding (some people will only listen if you bring money into it). But again, the people we need to listen and learn, are the sort that don't give a monkeys for any sort of life in general. Same goes with ideas of paying for a dog license etc... they just wont, take the dog off them they'll get another one easily and unlawfully, they don't care one bit.

It's the law to have car insurance and a license etc etc... how many of the little wotsits don't and get away with it!


Another ad has just set me off... nearby a 12 year old staffy is being advertised as they don't like the fact that he 'bothers' their bitch on heat... 12 years old is too old to move a dog on like that, so sad.

Someone buy me a house with acres of land for me and all these 'lost' doggies to play!


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

neutering shortens the dogs life , fact!. if your going to spay a bitch wait till shes atleast 6 or u will be shortening her life


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

ridium said:


> neutering shortens the dogs life , fact!. if your going to spay a bitch wait till shes atleast 6 or u will be shortening her life


And where is the evidence of this? Spaying and neutering can prevent diseases or cancers etc. that will kill a dog young.


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

according to a study by the British Veterinary Association (author AR Michell is the president of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons), "Neutered bitches lived longest of dogs dying of all causes, though entire bitches lived longest of dogs dying of natural causes, with neutered males having the shortest lifespan in each category."[


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## Railz (Oct 30, 2010)

thats just 1 example of a whole heap of evidence that neutering or spaying shortens average life expectancy.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My neutered cross yorkie is 17 in February so its not shortened his life! My Cavalier was neutered and he lived until he was 15, my JRT cross lived until he was 17, my spayed rottie lived until she was 13 along with my old GSD girl. I could list all the others but on the whole they all lived long happy lives and they were all spayed or castrated!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

ridium said:


> neutering shortens the dogs life , fact!. if your going to spay a bitch wait till shes atleast 6 or u will be shortening her life


All my bitches were either spayed before their first season or 3 months after their first season never later than that and they are still alive and kicking, the oldest one is now 13. My friend is a breeder of GSD and my dogs live longer than hers which to me means that neutering prolongs life not shortens it.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

ridium said:


> Buying for your next door neighbours anti social asbo collecting "staff" owneing son , will allow you to own a dog that is from a cross somewhere down the line with *an illegal pitbull , that will eventually snap , maim your kids/grandchildren* or carry genetics that will have them suffering from epileptic seizures, gait, tremors and muscle stiffness


Forgive me if I read this wrong, but are you saying that because backyard staffies are crossed with pits somewhere down the line that they will probably end up maiming children? are you saying this because you are stereotyping pit bulls as aggressive killing machines? or because of badly bred genetics?


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

ridium said:


> according to a study by the British Veterinary Association (author AR Michell is the president of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons), "Neutered bitches lived longest of dogs dying of all causes, though entire bitches lived longest of dogs dying of natural causes, with neutered males having the shortest lifespan in each category."[


I have to admit I have been following studies results of which indicate that neutering large breed males before they are fully grown is leading to an increase risk of bone cancers (As a previous own of Flatcoats I have an interest in canine bone cancers) 

I am very aware of the huge negative results of the very early spaying and neutering in American rescues. I mean at a matter of 6 weeks, that is simply sickening to me.

However I have heard nothing but benefits from spaying females, the only question is balancing doing it too early and effecting growth/maturity and an increased risk of incontinence is some breeds verses at a time to minimise any future breast cancer risks


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

nothing will have as short a life as the overbred unwanted bull breeds in pounds, many just juveniles with 7 days of life left unless lucky enough to be chosen.Hopeless,literally.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

ridium said:


> Buying for your next door neighbours anti social asbo collecting "staff" owneing son , will allow you to own a dog that is from a cross somewhere down the line with an illegal pitbull , that will eventually snap , maim your kids/grandchildren or carry genetics that will have them suffering from epileptic seizures, gait, tremors and muscle stiffness


Pit bulls do not 'snap', that silly myth has been doing the rounds for so long it's ridiculous.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

ridium said:


> neutering shortens the dogs life , fact!. if your going to spay a bitch wait till shes atleast 6 or u will be shortening her life


~Ihave to disagree with this I have an 11 year old poodle who is hale and hearty and was neutured at the tender age of 1 year and my prvious dog lived to be the grand old age of 18 and was a yorkie spayed at six months as i didnt want any pups at all I have onl ever heard from my ves that neuturing prevents lots of diseases and cancers in olde r bitches so why would i be told this by a vet if it were untrue?


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## Mirf (May 22, 2008)

ridium said:


> Buying for your next door neighbours anti social asbo collecting "staff" owneing son , will allow you to own a dog that is from a cross somewhere down the line with an illegal pitbull , that will eventually snap , maim your kids/grandchildren or carry genetics that will have them suffering from epileptic seizures, *gait*, tremors and muscle stiffness


What about their gait? If you are going to copy and paste at least ensure you copy all of it. I am assuming you mean a wobbly gait associated with the symptoms of L-2HGA?

I am also not sure I understand your reference to L-2HGA and your comment referring to illegal pitbulls. This genetic mutation is found in 'pure' bred kc registered staffordshire bull terriers, as well as cross breeds, and there is absolutely no proof that the disorder originated from a 'backstreet' breeder. 

If anything, given the number of pure bred staffies that are carriers, it is more likely that, in the first inst, it came from a pure bred....


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Kat91 said:


> Forgive me if I read this wrong, but are you saying that because backyard staffies are crossed with pits somewhere down the line that they will probably end up maiming children? are you saying this because you are stereotyping pit bulls as aggressive killing machines? or because of badly bred genetics?


Pitbulls are killing machines!!! there ferocious powerful crazy and probably the most athletic dog you have seen in your life you better watch out!


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## Mirf (May 22, 2008)

ryanr1987 said:


> Pitbulls are killing machines!!! there ferocious powerful crazy and probably the most athletic dog you have seen in your life you better watch out!


 
That's 100% true, I completely agree.......







and all St. Bernard dogs carry little barrels of brandy around their neck and, if you ever fall down a well, you can rely on a long haired collie to get help.....:whistling2:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

ridium said:


> neutering shortens the dogs life , fact!. if your going to spay a bitch wait till shes atleast 6 or u will be shortening her life


Really? And where did you do your veterinary training too?
I have never heard such rubbish!
You will infact find it reduces the risk of some cancers, illnesses and behavioural issues. There are no pros to not neutering.



ryanr1987 said:


> Pitbulls are killing machines!!! there ferocious powerful crazy and probably the most athletic dog you have seen in your life you better watch out!


Eh? Thats a bit like saying a kid with a spud gun is a serial killer...


Its statements like these that do more harm than good, and whilst there are people with these thoughts we are just fighting a loosing battle. Hence laws needing to be brought in about who gets to own a dog and neutering/licencing breeding.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Mirf said:


> That's 100% true, I completely agree.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


St bernards are also a danger to the public they are one of the biggest causers of drinking problems.


marthaMoo said:


> Really? And where did you do your veterinary training too?
> I have never heard such rubbish!
> You will infact find it reduces the risk of some cancers, illnesses and behavioural issues. There are no pros to not neutering.
> 
> ...


How the hell is a kid with a spud gun even a comparison LOL


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

ryanr1987 said:


> Pitbulls are killing machines!!! there ferocious powerful crazy and probably the most athletic dog you have seen in your life you better watch out!


 

Daddy the most famous of all pitbulls was a real danger wasnt he:whistling2: Its not the dog its the person who owns and trains it that decides how badly behaved it is!

I will presume your comment was a joke!!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

marthaMoo said:


> Hence laws needing to be brought in about who gets to own a dog and neutering/licencing breeding.


I am afraid the only way licencing breeding will really help this situation would be refusing licences to the parents who are breeding stupid people! 
Even then we will have to wait a few generations for the benefits!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

ryanr1987 said:


> How the hell is a kid with a spud gun even a comparison LOL


Its half term isnt it? :whistling2:



Kare said:


> I am afraid the only way licencing breeding will really help this situation would be refusing licences to the parents who are breeding stupid people!
> Even then we will have to wait a few generations for the benefits!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


Couldnt agree more :lol2:


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

ryanr1987 said:


> Pitbulls are killing machines!!! there ferocious powerful crazy and probably the most athletic dog you have seen in your life you better watch out!


hahaha :lol2:


marthaMoo said:


> Really? And where did you do your veterinary training too?
> I have never heard such rubbish!
> You will infact find it reduces the risk of some cancers, illnesses and behavioural issues. There are no pros to not neutering.
> 
> ...


Martha Moo, let me introduce you to Mr Sarcasm :whistling2:


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