# Dubia Roaches?!



## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

So, I have decided to start feeding roaches but I can't afford to buy them so want to breed my own. Problem is my parents don't know about them, because my mum hates roaches and crickets, my animals love the roaches so they are going to have them. Is a large faunarium big enough to house them in? Or do I need a big RUB sort of thing? I really don't want them to know about them YET I just need to find a way to explain the pros of them and how they aren't going to infest the whole house (my mum always says the locusts are going to infest the house)


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## Footie (Jul 23, 2009)

I have a large rub, on a heat mat. Bought a mixed colony for £50 and they look after themselves if you feed them right!! Had a few escapes but they die quickly outside of the tub. Plus a bit of vaseline along the top stops them from getting out too, they can't really climb either!!


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm getting them a heat mat soon but ATM they are in my cupboard in the faunarium, breaking it to my mum won't be easy :lol2:


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## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

indigo_rock_girl said:


> I'm getting them a heat mat soon but ATM they are in my cupboard in the faunarium, breaking it to my mum won't be easy :lol2:


Faunariums aren't great for them, babies can squeeze right through the gaps and potentially introduce themselves to your mum- show her the nymphs and say they're beetles- the adults just seem to freak non-rep people out


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

ConnorTrussell said:


> Faunariums aren't great for them, babies can squeeze right through the gaps and potentially introduce themselves to your mum- show her the nymphs and say they're beetles- the adults just seem to freak non-rep people out



this is true however you could modify it but if you still buy from me i supply a suitable tub (lunchbox) suitable for keeping a small colony.

your best bet is to get a storage tub and tell your mum you are sorting your room :lol2:

roaches don't need a lot of room its just that they breed like mad and very soon out grow small rubs. i have kept small colony's in biscuit tins before and they have done very well. food water and temps are the most important.


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

I was thinking of getting a RUB and cutting a bit out of the lid and putting fine mesh there for ventilation, would that be okay? 

Tbh this is so in a while I save money on locusts etc but I don't think my mum will see it that way haha


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

Yes that will be fine


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

or you could talk to your mum about it, explain how you will ensure they don't infest her house, and then accept her decision and about what happens in her house.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

CloudForest said:


> or you could talk to your mum about it, explain how you will ensure they don't infest her house, and then accept her decision and about what happens in her house.


Ha ha ha ha :lol2:


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

CloudForest said:


> or you could talk to your mum about it, explain how you will ensure they don't infest her house, and then accept her decision and about what happens in her house.


I am going to talk to her about it, but just not yet.


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

What size RUB would be best? I was thinking of having two, one for the breeders and one for the babies, nymphs to go in?


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

Also would this mesh be okay? Modelling Wire Mesh - Fine Aluminium Mesh 20cm x 30cm A4 Sheets | eBay

Or should I drill small holes in the top and sides?


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

indigo_rock_girl said:


> What size RUB would be best? I was thinking of having two, one for the breeders and one for the babies, nymphs to go in?


size really depends on how many you want, having 2 tubs is a great idea as you wont keep disturbing your breeders. but it could be anything from something as small as a biscuit tin to as big as dustbins or larger.

many people do it different ways so have a google and see which is best for you


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

indigo_rock_girl said:


> Also would this mesh be okay? Modelling Wire Mesh - Fine Aluminium Mesh 20cm x 30cm A4 Sheets | eBay
> 
> Or should I drill small holes in the top and sides?


dont bother just drill small holes and keep an eye on moisture if you see loads of condensation drill more holes.


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm going to go to staples today and buy 2 RUBs, then I can decide what size is best for me


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

indigo_rock_girl said:


> What size RUB would be best? I was thinking of having two, one for the breeders and one for the babies, nymphs to go in?


Why ????????


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

mr stroudy said:


> size really depends on how many you want, having 2 tubs is a great idea as you wont keep disturbing your breeders. but it could be anything from something as small as a biscuit tin to as big as dustbins or larger.
> 
> many people do it different ways so have a google and see which is best for you





Dragon Farm said:


> Why ????????


As said above, I don't want to disturb the breeders and the RUBs were on offer, for one more it cost me £2


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

My comments were asking why you wanted to waste your time spending hours picking out the babies, and then keep them seperate. I see no sense in doing this. 

I can't think of a better way of continually disturbing your breeders than doing this ! If you want to keep them seperate, then you need to pick out new babies every couple weeks of so.

Of course if you need enough roaches that will take two boxes then it makes sense to have two boxes. Personally I think you need a spare box when you clean them out. 


I think there is in fact zero evidence that gentle disturbance does any harm. I think there are are alot of roach myths that are constantly being repeated with zero evidence of any truth to them.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

I think it makes perfect sense. And a little common sense tells you you only sort the babies out when cleaning I.e once a month. 
She is going to be feeding from the colony so desturbing the breeder colony every day is a bad idea. 

Any respectable Roach breeder will tell you this. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

I must be a non respectable roach breeder then !!! I have alot of roaches that are breeding very well. 

Can you give me any real evidence that gently taking out a few roaches as feeders every few days/everyday, will do any harm to the breeding results ?

EDIT I think your advice is adding ALOT of unnessary work.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

You are deffo one for your real evidence arnt you. 
I think the evidence is in people's experience. 

Common sense comes into play surely you must see this. 

Like I have said everyone has there own ways. 

Also if you have lots of roaches you are not going to miss a few dropped egg sacks. The op has a small colony so a dropped egg sack would have a much larger impact.


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## indigo_rock_girl (Mar 9, 2008)

I have a very simple answer to your question: because I want to. 

I don't care about the extra work, reptiles are a huge part of my life and if I choose to spend more time looking after the bugs then I choose to.

Maybe I want to have 2 RUBs full of roaches, it's my choice, not yours.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

I have a breeding colony of them. I keep them in a large RUB. I then keep the RUB in the bath so I can leave the lid off, otherwise I find condensation builds up. I just take the RUB out the bath every time I have a shower/bath. I don't use any heat with them now and they still breed like mad. I don't even turn on my central heating so just their sheer numbers must generate enough heat. I've got that many again that at the moment my centipede, T's, bullfrog and Tokay are all on females. They're a great feeder. Just wish I did it sooner.


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## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Cut the centre of the rub lid out leaving just the outer rim, then go to the hardware shop and get some fine plastic netting. Make a few holes around the lid edge and just secure the netting on with some cable ties. Condensation problem solved.


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## Basin79 (Apr 1, 2014)

Sylvi said:


> Cut the centre of the rub lid out leaving just the outer rim, then go to the hardware shop and get some fine plastic netting. Make a few holes around the lid edge and just secure the netting on with some cable ties. Condensation problem solved.


That's a great idea. Cheers. I live on my own though so the bath works for me.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

indigo_rock_girl said:


> I have a very simple answer to your question: because I want to.
> 
> I don't care about the extra work, reptiles are a huge part of my life and if I choose to spend more time looking after the bugs then I choose to.
> 
> Maybe I want to have 2 RUBs full of roaches, it's my choice, not yours.


This is a public forum. Expect to get people giving their opinions. If you don't want people commenting on your ideas, maybe just talk to yourself rather than typing it out for the world to see. 

In my opinion not only what you are planning to do is alot of extra work, it isn't going to make any positive difference to your roaches, your reptiles, or you. If you really want to spend an hour or more a week doing something pointless, yes that is your choice. 

Believe it or not, I was trying to help you, to save you that extra work when you could be spending it with your reptiles, or your friends, or whatever.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

mr stroudy said:


> You are deffo one for your real evidence arnt you.
> I think the evidence is in people's experience.
> 
> Common sense comes into play surely you must see this.
> ...


What experience ? Yes if you follow the advice of not disturbing them much they will breed well. What does that prove ?

Has anybody split a group of roaches in half and compared two different groups, one that has more disturbance than the other, and compared the breeding results ? If so I have never seen anybody talk about it, and publish the results. If you wish to carry on believing this myth it is up to you. I do not believe that gentle disturbance does any harm. 

I never see dropped egg sacks. Surely common sense would tell you that every month going through every egg crate and either picking off every adult and moving them, or picking off every baby and removing them is not only extra work, but also potentially stressfull compared to not doing that. I only pick off the roaches I need. I only need to go through about 1/5 of all the egg crates to find the roaches I need. The majority of the trays are left alone. 

I don't need to touch or move the egg crate at all to clean them out in some of my specially designed dubia cages. But in some of my other more normal cages I need to remove all the egg crate once a month or so to clean them out, and those ones breed just as well. 

As I said in my last post, this is a public forum, so expect comments on what you say. But I fully respect your right to do what you think is best. I am only trying to save people from extra work that I believe is pointless.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

Dragon Farm said:


> What experience ? Yes if you follow the advice of not disturbing them much they will breed well. What does that prove ?
> 
> Has anybody split a group of roaches in half and compared two different groups, one that has more disturbance than the other, and compared the breeding results ? If so I have never seen anybody talk about it, and publish the results. If you wish to carry on believing this myth it is up to you. I do not believe that gentle disturbance does any harm.
> 
> ...


i do see what you are saying and agree, but you work on a much larger scale im simply saying if you are using a small colony it my opinion it would be better to split them.

but as i do have the ability to separate my colony's i will run the test like you said and then at least i can tell by fact.

i will make 2 identical colony's and gently disturb one each day and leave the other alone apart from adding food for 1 month.

but like i stated in my previous post everyone has there own way


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Actually, it can work against you to split them up. Roaches have a fair degree of parenting, and the small grow better when kept with the adults. The young gain enzymes and other digestive benefits from the wastes of the adults. Separating them is not only unnecessary, but can be detrimental to your colony in certain ways. Mind you, they are roaches so theyll get by, but there is absolutely no need to separate them and you'd kind of be working against your goal.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

mr stroudy said:


> i do see what you are saying and agree, but you work on a much larger scale im simply saying if you are using a small colony it my opinion it would be better to split them.
> 
> but as i do have the ability to separate my colony's i will run the test like you said and then at least i can tell by fact.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good idea, but you obvioulsly need two identical boxes, with equal temps, and equal amounts of roaches. It will be interesting to find out what results you get.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

jarich said:


> Actually, it can work against you to split them up. Roaches have a fair degree of parenting, and the small grow better when kept with the adults. The young gain enzymes and other digestive benefits from the wastes of the adults. Separating them is not only unnecessary, but can be detrimental to your colony in certain ways. Mind you, they are roaches so theyll get by, but there is absolutely no need to separate them and you'd kind of be working against your goal.


I have never read anywhere else about this idea. Where did you read about this ?

One other thing is that when you have alot of roaches togther you can easily add some veg everyday, and learn how much to add so it all gets eaten in around 24 hours. You can spread out the fresh food around the cage knowing it will all get eaten, and the babies will find food more easily. The adults/larger nymphs will keep the surface of the 'wet' food open and fresh.

If you start setting up seperate groups you may find some of the wet food may dry and become unpalatable for the babies quite quickly. There will be more waste. I have seen a you tube video with a guy that was constantly splitting up his dubia into seperate drawers by size, and it was clear he was wasting alot of money of fresh veg/fruit that was drying before being eaten. The entire colony appeared to be about the size you would find on a couple of egg crates from my colonies. It looked like he was wasting alot of time each week seperating them with counter productive results.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

Dragon Farm said:


> Sounds like a good idea, but you obvioulsly need two identical boxes, with equal temps, and equal amounts of roaches. It will be interesting to find out what results you get.


Yes I have 2 exact same tubs 50 females in each with 5 males in each both sat on heat mats side by side. 
I'm measuring there food the same too and water.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

OK I have noticed babies in both tubs already, the tub I lift the egg crates out I have noticed 2 dropped egg sacks. But there is still babies.the other thing I have I noticed is the desturbed tub gets through a bit more food,which surprised me


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## jarich (Mar 23, 2012)

Dragon Farm said:


> I have never read anywhere else about this idea. Where did you read about this?


There was a person who did their doctoral thesis on dubias. I'll see if I can dig up an open link for it somewhere. Very interesting and amazing little bugs.


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## NaomiR (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm caring for my first colony of roaches so found this discussion very interesting, mine arrived in 2 seperate containers one with the adults and one containing (much younger) feeders.

As the breeder advised keeping them seperate I did exactly that and both little groups are in 11ltr RUB's sat side by side in a spare un heated viv - the RUB's have no lids on but since they're in a sealed viv I'm not worried about them escaping.

The adults are busy and very interesting but I'm not looking forward to cleaning them out and BOY can they make a mess?? Lol


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

ok due to lack of space i have gone through both tubs i have counted them all i started with 100 females in each tub with a 5-1 ratio.

results, disturbed tub had one dead male and produced 138 babies and still all 200 females

the not disturbed tub had all males and females 172 babies.

i really think a longer experiment would need to take place for accurate results.

i will still separate my breeders from the rest just because of the amount i have to disturb my colony's on a daily basis.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Thanks for sharing. I am glad that you can see that the experiment is not conclusive. 

How long was the 'experiment' carried out for ?


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

Not long enough only just a month needs to be set up a month really! Then run for about 2-3


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

I think the first setup was the result in the dropped egg sacks. It's a hard one to call


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## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

In order to do a proper experiment this is what needs to be done

You need to seperate large nymphs (one she's away from being adult, then when they shed into adults you do the experiment.

The adults that wasn't disturbed could of had a higher number of pregnant females prior to the test, thus producing more babies.


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## Dragon Farm (Aug 7, 2009)

Maybe you need to start with babies !! Maybe they need to be undisturbed for 5 months to breed well !!

One very interesting result is that with a very large number of females, the average number of babies born per female was only around 1.5 babies in a month. 

That is alot lower than you might expect. I am not suggesting this proves anything. I don't know for example how mine would compare.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

It is very low although I think it is closer to 3 weeks but still I'm sure the test needs to be alot longer to get fair results. I'll set up another colony at a later date but I'm low on numbers at the moment and need to build stocks back up.


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## ConnorTrussell (Apr 5, 2012)

Not too sure it matters to be honest everyone does it differently, you'll need a lot of roaches and a lot of time to find the results for something not many people would care for lol...

experiments I'm interested in is if diet effects breeding rate, humidity, size of group etc


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## Spideypidey (Jan 23, 2014)

ConnorTrussell said:


> Not too sure it matters to be honest everyone does it differently, you'll need a lot of roaches and a lot of time to find the results for something not many people would care for lol...
> 
> experiments I'm interested in is if diet effects breeding rate, humidity, size of group etc


Temperature and humidity definitely matters, especially humidity which they need for expelling and taking back the egg sac as well as moulting. But humidity over 80% kills them. For temperature I use a heat mat underneath the enclosure which covers around half of the area, no thermostat. For humidity I use a small container of damp substrate (Spider Life) as well as spraying the walls and egg trays with spring water: But be careful to avoid wetting the dry food because it will go mouldy which is poison to Dubias. Diet, well I've tried loads of different combinations and have not detected any difference at all which has led me to feed bran exclusively as the dry component. To me it's just a waste of money to make up a roach food/chow.


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## mr stroudy (Mar 11, 2008)

Spideypidey said:


> Temperature and humidity definitely matters, especially humidity which they need for expelling and taking back the egg sac as well as moulting. But humidity over 80% kills them. For temperature I use a heat mat underneath the enclosure which covers around half of the area, no thermostat. For humidity I use a small container of damp substrate (Spider Life) as well as spraying the walls and egg trays with spring water: But be careful to avoid wetting the dry food because it will go mouldy which is poison to Dubias. Diet, well I've tried loads of different combinations and have not detected any difference at all which has led me to feed bran exclusively as the dry component. To me it's just a waste of money to make up a roach food/chow.


Yeah humidity makes a huge difference I noticed that.


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