# Heat mat drama!



## blue92 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hello! 

I'm setting up my first viv that is intended for a young corn. 
The viv is wooden and just over 2ft. I have a 13.5w heat mat that covers a good half of the bottom of the viv and it is hooked up to a thermostat. The heat probe is currently directly ontop Of the heatmat, as is the thermometer. I also have a layer of aspen covering the floor. 

I set all of the equipment up 3 days ago and I've pretty much left it alone and kept an eye on the temp. The problem I am having is, I'm not sure if the heat mat I have is broken or maybe is not big enough/strong enough for the viv but it's just not getting hot enough. I am routinely checking the thermometer and it never reads more that 70f. Now I know what you're thinking. Turn up the thermostat. It only reads the 70f when the thermostat is turned up to the max. If it's not the mat is stone cold. Am I doing something wrong or is my mat broken? 

Any help or advice is very much appreciated! Thank you!


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

what kind of thermometer is it, and where is it in the enclosure?

you need to measure the temp of the substrate directly above the heat mat, preferably with a digital thermometer, place the probe in the same place as the thermostat probe - you are looking to get that temp to about 31-32C


if the probe is anywhere else, you wont be reading the right temp, if its a dial/analog on the side of the enclosure, then you are measuring ambient air temp, which will be lower than the basking area temp (on the heat mat)


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## paptai (Jan 21, 2015)

I would strongly advise against using a heat mat inside a vivarium, under the substrate. Heat mats usually only heat what they touch and they require an air gap to prevent thermal blocking, which is when the heating device heats up a surface and the heat has no means of escaping, causing the device to overheat, which could melt the heat mat and start a fire.

My advice would be to use overhead heating. A 40w ceramic bulb on the roof of the vivarium to one side, which is guarded and controlled by a pulse-proportion or dimming thermostat. You then get the best of both worlds, as not only will this prevent your snake from being in direct contact with the heat source, the seat source will will also heat the air inside the vivarium, which is very important during the winter months.


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## Pockets (May 27, 2014)

Never had a problem with my two on a hear mat I've had my heat mat on a mat stat for nearly a year 

I have mine set up like cloud forest says

But yes another way of heating you viv is as paptai says 

It's down to your preferences 

I have ceramics and mats 

Can't fualt either just don't for get them corns and most snakes need belly heat most of all to help deligest there meal.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Something is definitely wrong there. A 2ft vivarium with a 13w heat mat and a thermostat turned to max should definitely be getting hotter than 70F unless you live somewhere extremely cold and have no house heating. If you turn the thermostat down to say, 75F and the heat mat is not coming on when the thermometer reads 70F then you have a problem, most likely the heat mat.

Did you buy them from a local reptile shop? You could try taking them in and just asking if they can test with another heat mat / stat and see if they can figure it which one is malfunctioning but I feel like it's the heat mat. You should really not need to go for a ceramic for a 2ft viv in a heated house in the UK. If it's out in a garage or somewhere freezing though that could be the problem.


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## paptai (Jan 21, 2015)

Pockets said:


> Never had a problem with my two on a hear mat I've had my heat mat on a mat stat for nearly a year
> 
> I have mine set up like cloud forest says
> 
> ...


That isn't correct. Snakes require their whole body to be a certain temperature for their metabolism to work effectively, not just their stomach.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

corns are a temperate species, 21C/70f ambient is of no concern, if they are provided with appropriate basking temperatures @ 31-32C


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## Pockets (May 27, 2014)

paptai said:


> That isn't correct. Snakes require their whole body to be a certain temperature for their metabolism to work effectively, not just their stomach.


Mine are doing fine they poo with out fail eat with out fail seem very healthy


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## Selecta (May 10, 2014)

paptai said:


> I would strongly advise against using a heat mat inside a vivarium, under the substrate. Heat mats usually only heat what they touch and they require an air gap to prevent thermal blocking, which is when the heating device heats up a surface and the heat has no means of escaping, causing the device to overheat, which could melt the heat mat and start a fire.
> 
> My advice would be to use overhead heating. A 40w ceramic bulb on the roof of the vivarium to one side, which is guarded and controlled by a pulse-proportion or dimming thermostat. You then get the best of both worlds, as not only will this prevent your snake from being in direct contact with the heat source, the seat source will will also heat the air inside the vivarium, which is very important during the winter months.


Its a corn not a burm. It will be fine on a heat mat that set up and statted properly.


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## Gratenkutzombie (Dec 28, 2012)

Poor advice.



CloudForest said:


> corns are a temperate species, 21C/70f ambient is of no concern, if they are provided with appropriate basking temperatures @ 31-32C


Mats should not be used inside a wooden vivarium, they should be used for RUBS/plastic enclosures and on the outside. They should also be used in tandem with another heat source like a light emitting bulb etc and most certainly should not be used to create a hot spot. By the nature of their design they do not heat the air leading to an increased risk of your snake developing a respiratory infection during this time of year.

If i were you, i'd purchase a ceramic bulb holder, a bulb guard, a dimmer thermostat and a 50~60w ceramic bulb and be done with it. Alot safer and you'll have those ambient temps up in no time AND see the snake bask during the day.


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## Pockets (May 27, 2014)

Gratenkutzombie said:


> Poor advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but no heat mat heat that area around them or on them.

Heat mats have been used in side vivs for along time and still will be.

My corns have heat mates and have done for all there life and not one got ri

Just cuz ceramic are available don't mean you have to have one.

Heat mats are fine as long as they are set up right and use for the right snake.

Both my corns are fine.

Why waste more money when you done have to?

I know loads of people using this method and have been for along time so why change it


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## Gratenkutzombie (Dec 28, 2012)

Using a heat mat on the side of the viv is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard. They are contact heaters and will not heat the air. Stick your hand in your viv and the air temp will be the same as the room it is in, it is far better for the animal to have heated air which a ceramic heater would provide. 










When i see pictures like the above i really cringe because its only heating the side glass (if you have a terrestrial animal they will not benefit what so ever) and if no thermostat is present the glass will crack, its only a matter of time and thirdly, the heat mat is of poor quality and is at increased risk of breaking down, especially between the ink strips. All heat mats have little heat elements submerged in black liquid ink and then laminated. Not very safe and not very efficient. They should be phased out as they've been around for donkeys years.



Pockets said:


> I'm sorry but no heat mat heat that area around them or on them.
> 
> Heat mats have been used in side vivs for along time and still will be.
> 
> ...


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## Pockets (May 27, 2014)

Sorry did not realise my spell check said side if the viv 

I ment inside the viv.

Each to there own. We all do thing diffrent you like ceramics I prefer heats mats if I can use them.

As long as the snake is eating and is healthy don't matter what heating you use.

It's down to personal choice.

We can sit here bashing away on ours keyboards /phones and still won't matter 

My corns have there heat mate on the for with a enuf substrate yo cover it with probe on top.


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Gratenkutzombie said:


> Poor advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it entirely depends on the setup, I keep my room at a steady 24C, with a slight raise to 26C through the day as a result of various viv's warming up - and so for my setup, a heat mat is more than adequate for many species

if you keep the viv in a drafty garage for eg, then yes absolutely, a heat mat is probably not going to be adequate

a corn snake wont develop an RI with ambient temps of 21C, they can handle much lower temps, being a temperate species, many only really experience ambient temps above that for a small part of the year, unless there is air-conditioning installed keeping temps lower than that during summer, it should be an issue; for tropical/sub tropical species, then yes, the ambient temps need to be more carefully controlled


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## blue92 (Aug 2, 2009)

Erm.
Sorry to interrupt the debate, turns out my heat mat was broken. I bought a new one. Problem solved. 
Carry on.


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## paptai (Jan 21, 2015)

Pockets said:


> I'm sorry but no heat mat heat that area around them or on them.
> 
> *Heat mats have been used in side vivs for along time and still will be.*
> 
> ...


Just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't mean it is good!

Here's an article which illustrates 'folklore husbandry' by Kevin Arbuckle and gives some examples of things that have been 'tradition' for years but are actually wrong.

https://www.academia.edu/4440056/Fo..._for_the_design_of_captive_management_regimes


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## CloudForest (Nov 27, 2013)

Heat mats on the side of the viv can be useful for some species, and if care is taken with the setup - geckos which like to bask on warm walls, for eg  ...as long as the ambient temps are appropriate for the species

additionally, for very young/small snakes, side mounting a heat mat is an acceptable temporary measure when the carer has inadvertently listened to incorrect advice telling them that a thermostat is not necessary


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