# New Pup, Am Bulldog X Boerboel, American Bandogge?



## bobberbiker

here is my new pup im getting at the weekend, its 6 weeks old... i know it should be left with her mother for a few more weeks but the breeder is letting them go now as there big enough though the males he is doing at 8 weeks so he sounds honest enough and if i dont get her someone else will so id prefer to get her myself rather than someone with less experience of pups. the mum is a american bulldog, the father a boerboel (south african mastiff) so im guessing the pup is a type of american bandogge (which is a american bulldog crossed with a mastiff type) dont confuse these with normal bandogges which are illegal (they contain pitbulls) any comments, advice etc is welcome. havent owned a dog since my boxer died at age 13 last year so cant wait to have another dog around. im not sure what to expect from this pup in height/muscle and adult looks....id guess something like a bullmastiff size.
not sure if both parents are purebred or not, the pics arent great and angles arent great either lol 

here is a photo


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## pigglywiggly

what a beautiful pup, looks very much like a bullmastiff in shape and colour!


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## verity123

hes gorgeous but one thing i will say is 6 weeks does seem early... i got one of my dogs at 7 weeks old, i now believe he has a few issues because of it. i would have liked him to have stayed with mum and siblings for another week or so as i really feel he would have benefited from it. saying that, when i collected him he was already seperated from his mum so i dont know how old he was when he was taken away from her. 

good luck with the pup, and im sorry for the loss of your boxer : victory:


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## bobberbiker

cheers guys,

what issues does he have verity? this one is on proper food already which is a bit surprising...unless its what they do now lol i havent had a pup for 13yrs lol but i figured milky water and soft food with bread etc, but hes on tinned food and biscuits already


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## verity123

erm its hard to explain if you cant see it. hes VERY clingy which my other 2 are not. he wees at anyone other then me and my OH, kind of in a submissive way, hes very nervous. its like hes on edge 24/7. 
it may not be anything to do with his age when i got him but i feel that contributes towards it. i may be complete off the mark but i have had a few people tell me it could be to do with that. i guess i will never know and i love him all the same, its just annoying having to tell people if they come round to completely ignore him or he will wee everywhere!

edit: i have also been advised by the vet to not have him neutered as it may actually make him more nervous, i dont know how true this is as it wasnt a great vet but he is now 3 years old and has never been a problem so we have left him be


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## pigglywiggly

your pups is a bit old for the weetabix rubbish, lol, all mine have been on dry puppy food/ meat by then too?

mine were all on soaked food @ 3 weeks when they started weaning, but are soon onto it dry.

weetabix/porridge/bread/milk etc isnt a balanced diet for a growing pup, they need a high energy food for growth.


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## ermgravy

been interesting to see it grow boerboels aren't generally used for banddogge as they generally dont carry any "interesting" genes (colours)... im not saying it wont be capable at all and i am certainly interested to see it grow...

and yeap far to early to leave home i wouldn't take a pup before 8 and thats a rush....


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## sammy1969

That is a gorgeous puppy but does look more mastiffy if you excuse the description will be interesting to see what she grows up to look like. ~I suppose one issue she may have due to being taken away from mum at such a young age is seperation anxiety andshe may imprint onto a certain family member moreso than anyone else but these issues can be solved with proper training but i think she is going to be a lovely dog.


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## Kare

The biggest issues normally with pups taken too early is lack of bite inhibition and dog aggression. 

The reason they are left until 8 weeks together is that they are meant to still be learning from Mum and siblings about doggy language and learning how hard a bite can be in play without your Mother telling you off or the other pups not wanting to play with you again. Of course it does not do the whole nip training bit for you, but goes a good way.

As you stated you intend to keep the dog muzzled 24/7 and on lead unless in fenced in areas the dog aggression I guess will be less of a problem to you than to most, unless it swings for a passing dog and knocks your child....but a dog lacking bite inhibition around your little girl?!


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## EquineArcher

As above, whether or not she's big enough to leave mum isn't the main thing, its the social learning side of things that's important. Leave her with mum for a few more weeks. A decent breeder won't mind. : victory:


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## bobberbiker

well she will be 7 weeks as my ole mans picking her up the weekend, i dont see it being a issue i know people who have had pups from 5 weeks and had no problem with dog agression or biting etc, the only nip as pups so doesnt hurt and when she does nip il yelp in pain and turn my back on her for 30 seconds...thats the only way i can think off to teach her bite inhibition at that age...if it carries on id take her to classes. i dont see a problem with her being around my lil one shes a harmless pup and il be watching them 24/7. and yeah she will be muzzled when out in public apart from when we reach the woods....which is secluded and fooookin massive lol so no chance of running into anyone....if she does turn out dog agressive the muzzle will be kept on even at the woods.


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## BMo1979

Is there no law in the UK that states pups are not to be separated from their mother before the age of 8 weeks?
As stated before, we had spent the majority of our dog ownership years in Germany and there it is clearly anchored in law, that puppies must not be given to a home before 8 weeks, unless there is a danger of harm to the pup is it remains with its litter. A lot of small dog breeders don't sell before 12 weeks.

P.S.: Our dog was separated from his mum at 6 weeks (the sellers got away with it, as they parents were from Sweden). Unfortunately, Trigger had already been 9 weeks old when we got him, so other than hear-say, we couldn't have report them. He is very clingy towards me and although it has gotten a lot better (he no longer ignores other family members and listens to them, too), there are still days when I have to send him away (hurts me as much as him, lol). I blame part of this on him being taken away from his mother too early, though I know that GSDs are prone to shadowing their owner.


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## bobberbiker

no law that i know of which is a bit stupid.
my boxer was the same though clingy to 1 but not the rest and totally ignored most of us if we told him to get off the bed etc hahaha we had him at 12wks though so cant be that he was took to early. though i see how that may effect it


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## ermgravy

BMo1979 said:


> Is there no law in the UK that states pups are not to be separated from their mother before the age of 8 weeks?
> As stated before, we had spent the majority of our dog ownership years in Germany and there it is clearly anchored in law, that puppies must not be given to a home before 8 weeks, unless there is a danger of harm to the pup is it remains with its litter. A lot of small dog breeders don't sell before 12 weeks.
> 
> P.S.: Our dog was separated from his mum at 6 weeks (the sellers got away with it, as they parents were from Sweden). Unfortunately, Trigger had already been 9 weeks old when we got him, so other than hear-say, we couldn't have report them. He is very clingy towards me and although it has gotten a lot better (he no longer ignores other family members and listens to them, too), there are still days when I have to send him away (hurts me as much as him, lol). I blame part of this on him being taken away from his mother too early, though I know that GSDs are prone to shadowing their owner.


wait your in germany and brought a gsd from sweden? :bash: DDR...? :whistling2:


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## ermgravy

why are you so set on not training your dog and being reliant on a muzzle? 

ask anyone in protection sports you can still get hideous injurys muzzle fitting a dog in training if its powerful enough just because its muzzled that is not the answer... it just stops a bit.... and is not in the dogs interest tpo be purchase to wear a muzzle in public every time they are out....


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## Ameliaxx

i know not a dog but i have a cat who was found when it was only 3/4 weeks old (roughly) he's very clingy and bites, its hard once they start to train them out of it. i good breeder would not let a pup go this early its essential for the pup to stay with his mum and litter mates until he's at least 8 weeks old.


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## BMo1979

ermgravy said:


> wait your in germany and brought a gsd from sweden? :bash: DDR...? :whistling2:


No, we used to stay in Germany due to my husband's work. When we bought Trigger, we weren't aware his parents were from Sweden, only found that one out afterwards.
Knowing better now, I would probably go for a DDR-line GSD.


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## PPVallhunds

BMo1979 said:


> Is there no law in the UK that states pups are not to be separated from their mother before the age of 8 weeks?
> As stated before, we had spent the majority of our dog ownership years in Germany and there it is clearly anchored in law, that puppies must not be given to a home before 8 weeks, unless there is a danger of harm to the pup is it remains with its litter. A lot of small dog breeders don't sell before 12 weeks.


There is the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 but it only applys to breeders who are lienced with there local councils.

It says "The keeper of a licensed breeding establishment is guilty of an offence if he sells a dog which is less than eight weeks old otherwise than to the keeper of a licensed pet shop or a licensed Scottish rearing establishment"


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## pigglywiggly

i`d rather buy a pup at 7 weeks old than 12 weeks or older.....the early socialization is very important.
you need to bond with the dog and expose it to lots of different experiences and situations rather than slap a muzzle on from the get go.

you wouldnt want to end up with someone elses problem pup like myself and feorag have..........


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## bobberbiker

where did i say i wont train it? i plan to train the hell out of it in all aspects, remember my boxer was a show winning dog so i plan to train this one the same, i prob wont be able to show it in half decent shows with it being a cross and no papers but id still train it the same. il take it out without a muzzle but if it shows agression to another dog il muzzle it, if it gets to close to a kid il muzzle it... im sure i can wrap the lead around my hand to shorten it when kids approach so it should be ok on that side of it


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## debiorme

bobberbiker said:


> here is my new pup im getting at the weekend, its 6 weeks old... i know it should be left with her mother for a few more weeks but the breeder is letting them go now as there big enough though the males he is doing at 8 weeks so he sounds honest enough and if i dont get her someone else will so id prefer to get her myself rather than someone with less experience of pups. the mum is a american bulldog, the father a boerboel (south african mastiff) so im guessing the pup is a type of american bandogge (which is a american bulldog crossed with a mastiff type) dont confuse these with normal bandogges which are illegal (they contain pitbulls) any comments, advice etc is welcome. havent owned a dog since my boxer died at age 13 last year so cant wait to have another dog around. im not sure what to expect from this pup in height/muscle and adult looks....id guess something like a bullmastiff size.
> not sure if both parents are purebred or not, the pics arent great and angles arent great either lol
> 
> here is a photo
> 
> [URL="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6757/bandogge.jpg"]image[/URL]


awwww:flrt: looks just like my bailey,5 yrs ago, this is her now 







:flrt::flrt:


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## Kare

pigglywiggly said:


> i`d rather buy a pup at 7 weeks old than 12 weeks or older.....the early socialization is very important.
> you need to bond with the dog and expose it to lots of different experiences and situations rather than slap a muzzle on from the get go.
> 
> you wouldnt want to end up with someone elses problem pup like myself and feorag have..........


I currently have two dogs in the house and so with their help I would maybe take a pup at 7 weeks, but not otherwise. The learning from other dogs is key for these few weeks. The question though is would a good breeder be getting rid before 8 weeks and that is what would make me say NO, because I absolutely do not believe they would.

I do agree with the fact I would not want to take an older pup though unless for a very very good reason (like it being an import from overseas needing to wait on rabies cover, and even then I would likely want to stay out there for that stage) if I am paying full price for a squeaky new puppy it has to be mine from 8-9 weeks. I do not see me trust anyone else to do that important stage for me. If I am not taking a squeaky new pup then I would likely be taking an adult rescue.


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## animalsbeebee

Being a big muscular breed i would add fresh meat to diet,i always rear my akitas on complete soaked food and minced beef.


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## JulieNoob

Why are you appearing to expect to have aggression issues with kids etc?

I would not expect any of the parent breeds to be problematic and if well socialised and sensibly trained surely the pup should be OK 


What are the parents temperaments like?


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## temerist

the brindle parent to that puppy is not a boerboel


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## Shell195

temerist said:


> the brindle parent to that puppy is not a boerboel


 
If this man says its not then believe him as he used to breed Boerbels:2thumb:


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## ermgravy

this is one of those no brainers... a true boerboel wouldn't be breed outside the breed.... but its nice to have my first thoughts confirmed....


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## temerist

only boerboel cross that i know people do that isnt too bad (however i dont agree with purposely cross breeding) is south african boerboel x rhodesian ridgeback, very popular in south africa and they are a nice cross and bred for hunting, combining 2 good skills. 

the puppy is lovely but just saying the dad is not a boerboel, and if im honest the mum doesnt look very american bulldog either.


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## Rach1

i did wonder that about mum too... just didnt want to say as i'm not that up on dog breeds.


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## feorag

verity123 said:


> hes gorgeous but one thing i will say is 6 weeks does seem early... i got one of my dogs at 7 weeks old, i now believe he has a few issues because of it. i would have liked him to have stayed with mum and siblings for another week or so as i really feel he would have benefited from it. saying that, when i collected him he was already seperated from his mum so i dont know how old he was when he was taken away from her.
> 
> good luck with the pup, and im sorry for the loss of your boxer : victory:


I'm with Kare on this - there's more to weaning than being able to eat solid food. Too many people think that because the pup is eating on its own that it's weaned, but weaning is "weaning away from mother and siblings" and at 6-7wks a pup isn't ready to leave mother and siblings. If you had other dogs, then I wouldn't object so much to taking the pup at that age, but as you don't have any other dogs who can teach this pup to *be *a dog, then she's better left with her mother and brothers for another week or so. Surely if you paid the guy for the puppy he would keep it, as you seem to think if you don't take the puppy early that he'll sell it to someone else - that doesn't sound like a good breeder to me anyway! :bash: 


temerist said:


> the brindle parent to that puppy is not a boerboel


I'm not hugely experienced with boerboels, but to be honest I thought that when I looked at the photograph. 



bobberbiker said:


> im sure i can wrap the lead around my hand to shorten it when kids approach so it should be ok on that side of it


If you plan this then I would suggest if you are walking him in a busy area you use a traffic lead, which is literally a wrist loop with a clip at the end. I use this on my GSD when I'm walking in towns and heavily populated areas as it gives more control over the dog.


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## temerist

brindle boerboel


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## Rach1

what a bonny looking dog.
i do like the tan/creamy coloured ones though...


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## feorag

temerist said:


> brindle boerboel
> 
> image


That illustrates the difference between the 2 dogs. The head of this dog is much more what I would expect from a boerboel - to me the father of the pups almost has a head like a boxer compared to this dog. If it is a Boerboel it's a very poor example and imao shouldn't be being bred from at all. Sounds to me like someone trying to cash in on 'hard' dogs!


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## temerist

i was thinking that eileen, dad looks almost boxer x bullmastiff (maybe some staffy in there as it doesnt look big) and the mum looks probably staffy x american bulldog, or again an extremely bad example of one


by the way the picture i posted is a google image just to show a brindle boerboel


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## Rach1

My Gus has a bigger head then that boerboel... and hes an AMxBB...


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## temerist

hes lovely what breed is he?


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## DavieB

Rach1 said:


> My Gus has a bigger head then that boerboel... and hes an AMxBB...
> image
> image


Why do I have to be allergic to shorthaired breeds.... Gus looks amazing, would love a British bulldog. Or even a rescue staff or Boxer type breed, even oldtyme for that matter.

Still would rather have ny RBT by a mile though lol


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## Rach1

thank you so much.
Gus is an Old Tyme Bulldog (so tecnically a cross breed) hes an american x british.
I got him from Neil (old tyme on here) and hes a darling! (gus not neil! lol)


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## temerist

neil does breed some lovely looking dogs


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## SiUK

Not sure if this has been said (im at work so havent got time to read) but the sire doesnt look like a Boerboel.

My American Bulldog pup was 6 weeks old when we got her, she was hand reared mother had mastitis and all the rest of the pups were going to homes already there were only 2 left when we got her, she was ok a little bit nippy to start with but we got on top of it straight away and shes ok now, fine with other dogs and very sweet


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## bobberbiker

think it was just the photo, my dad went and collected the pup and the sire looked pure and nothing like the photo. the pup looks almost pure boerboel too il get some new pics


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## SUPER HANS

The dad looks intense :gasp:


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## Mauro02

*Mr*



debiorme said:


> awwww:flrt: looks just like my bailey,5 yrs ago, this is her now
> image:flrt::flrt:


Hi, just to add the dad is not a boerboel. I breed boerboels and I'm from south Africa, please do understand that the boerboel just like the presa canario lineage has not yet been defined genetically. The father looks more like a boxer/boerboel mix.
The mother looks like an amstaff.


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