# Chuckwalla Desert & Cave Concept Vivarium!



## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Hey all, Mr. Caff here with something I have been thinking about for a little while. I want to make my Chuckwalla Chilli a truly awesome present for Christmas, A new home :2thumb:.

Let me explain, I have been talking to another member (LoveMySnakes) about Chuckwalla everything, from diet to attitude to anatomy to habitat. It turns out that in the wild chuckwallas would normally sleep, do the nasty :blush: and lay there eggs deep in cracks in the rocks. These areas have been known to not only stay warm long after the sun goes down but have humudity levels of 80%! So I was thinking, how hard would it be to create a Vivarium with a hot desert floor 1/3 up the viv, while underneath lies a cave like dark, warm, moist area to stimulate natural behaviour.

Am I mad? Probably. Am I going to try and make this dream a reality? Most certainly!

The first thing I needed to do is work out the logistics of doing this, Having a raised floor and enough space to work with. Fortunatly, Vivexotic have done most of the work for me with the Vivexotic AX48 pictured here:










If I was to cut a section out of the "divider" then I already have exactly what I wanted! :2thumb:

So I attempted to sketch out my plans, now I'm no artist but hopefully this gets across what I'm trying to do:










The main challenge with this setup is to try and keep moisture in the bottom and not the top (this would also allow for the thing I want the most, a LIVE PLANT DESERT VIV!). My idea is to recreate the "small gap" that chuckwallas are already accustomed to with what you can see as a small ramp facing the wall. This would stop a lot of moisture rising through to the top.

Obviously this is all talk until I try it out and I am going to rely a lot on everyone reading this to make this a success! This will be my first build and apart from the Vivarium I am going to try and source most materials for free! Oh and I am going to buy a Dremel :no1:.

So, if you can make sense of my crude drawing then please comment and contribute! I'd love to know what you think of the idea and hope to see you all give me ideas to make this project a huge success!

Yours as always.

Mr. Caff : victory:.


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## ReptileRyan (Jul 13, 2011)

WOW. Thats an amazing idea :mf_dribble:

..Someones smart :lol2:

Can't wait to see the finished thing. keep me updates with lots of pics :flrt:

EDIT: Also could i suggest on the bottom ramp, having it not take up the whole width/Diamter of the viv, so like half of it, so then you wont loose the space underneath the ramp, keeping that space keeps ANOTHER hiding area


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

ReptileRyan said:


> WOW. Thats an amazing idea :mf_dribble:
> 
> ..Someones smart :lol2:
> 
> ...


Hehe, thanks! It's a total concept at this stage but I aim to be completed before Christmas as I say so I should have plenty to read about .

The only reason I aimed to have the ramp quite long is to keep the digging behaviour to one side of the Viv so that me opening the bottom halfs sliding doors wouldn't disturb the substrate.

The bottom half and the method used to connect the two is still completly up for discussion. I had thought of using smaller passageways and tunnels in the bottom but I feel a tunneling access to a cave would provide more options for viewing!

At the moment my solution to keep things dark in the bottom half is to spray the outside of the glass, but then you wouldn't ever be able to see in without disturbing Chilli . I need like a translucent darkened solution thats dark for them but allows be to still see in. hmmmm... Smoked glass???

Hehe, I will keep you all updated on my progress!

Mr. Caff.


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## ReptileRyan (Jul 13, 2011)

why don't you just use a pinned cloth, or something like a curtain? keep it dark, and when you want to view, you can open it?


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

ReptileRyan said:


> why don't you just use a pinned cloth, or something like a curtain? keep it dark, and when you want to view, you can open it?


My first thought was to go with a blackout blind that I could just wind down. Hmm, I'll have to think about it some more .


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

For the bottom half with the 'blackout' why not some decent Car window tint. Get it in "Limo Black" colour, or a name similar. Which as far as I know is still the darkest one you can get. 


Like I have tinted windows on my car, I can see out of my rear windows fine from inside, but nobody can see inside from the outside. So imagine your room as the inside of the car, you can see into the viv. But your Chuckwalla cannot see out of his viv/"into your car" if that makes sense. Just apply the window tint to apply to the above. 


You'll be able to see in without disturbing him and as far as he knows hes in pitch black and nobody can see him, he's all secure etc. 

As for the humidity thing, keep it all nice and humid in the cave bit like you wanted too, then attatch some PC fans to the top Desert bit to keep a fresh supply of air coming in and blowing the humid air that has risen into the 'Desert' area out. Just set them on a timer to come on every couple of hours for a few minutes or something, just do some humidity tests and work from there basically.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Emily (lovemysnakes) most certainly has researched her chucks, expirienced alot and put what she learnt into practice and also helped save a little one on deaths doorstep.

If I was to ever ask for advice on chucks it would be her.
I look forward to seeing the end result, good luck .


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Spuddy said:


> For the bottom half with the 'blackout' why not some decent Car window tint. Get it in "Limo Black" colour, or a name similar. Which as far as I know is still the darkest one you can get.
> 
> 
> Like I have tinted windows on my car, I can see out of my rear windows fine from inside, but nobody can see inside from the outside. So imagine your room as the inside of the car, you can see into the viv. But your Chuckwalla cannot see out of his viv/"into your car" if that makes sense. Just apply the window tint to apply to the above.
> ...


Two amazing ideas, thanks a lot!

For the window tint, wouldn't it make a reflection to Chilli could see herself? I wouldn't want her to stress out because she thinks there's another female around! In principal though an amazing idea!

For the airflow I will have to keep a close eye on humidity in both areas, see what is the most effective solution to prevent respiratory infection.

These are the kinds of ideas I need! Thanks Spuddy.


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Emily (lovemysnakes) most certainly has researched her chucks, expirienced alot and put what she learnt into practice and also helped save a little one on deaths doorstep.
> 
> If I was to ever ask for advice on chucks it would be her.
> I look forward to seeing the end result, good luck .


Emillie has the other half of Chilli's clutch , She's great (though I can feel her head getting bigger when she reads this ). I value your opinion too though, Sal, if you have anything to add to the project .


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

I have had very little hands on with these chaps to be honest but with the cave idea, something as simple as a draw could be added to the bottom turned upside down, a hole could be cut in the center and with a bit of cerativity could have polystyrene or anything really, painted up around it to make it look natural with a cave/rocky effect, it would look awesome too in my opinion.

You could then maintain a warm temperature inside of it with a heat mat  very simple and easy one for the cave part.

Creating a hot desert floor, because these chaps do require a very high temperature perhaps a Mercury vapour bulb? not sure if I would chance one in an enclosure that size though, I suppose it might depend on the wattage too, never tried it it is just a thought.

Alternatively the only other way would be to use spot bulbs, ceramics, and heatmats combined to gain a hot desert temp but you probibly could just do it with a bulb.

the temperature inside the cave at the bottom may not need any additional heat inside of it depending on the temperature gradient and what you use.: victory:


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

MrC4FF said:


> Two amazing ideas, thanks a lot!
> 
> For the window tint, wouldn't it make a reflection to Chilli could see herself? I wouldn't want her to stress out because she thinks there's another female around! In principal though an amazing idea!
> 
> ...


 
No worries, but you should be fine with tint's in terms of reflection. As usually you only see your reflection on window tints because of the sunlight on the outside of the glass. Whats really happening with your reflection is that its showing on the glass, but not the tints themselves. It's just that because the tints provide a black background its easier to the reflection, even though its always been there before tints.

Although providing the cave is dark as can be there wont be any light inside there to reflect off of anything. So should be totally pitch black with no reflections. Just try and use Matt colours inside the cave rather than Glossy ones so that any light that does enter from the cave entrance is quickly "absorbed".


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## ReptileRyan (Jul 13, 2011)

still think the curtain idea would be easier IMO,and give the viv abit of character :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

ReptileRyan said:


> still think the curtain idea would be easier IMO,and give the viv abit of character :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Yeah, give it that 70's Vibe .


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Salazare Slytherin said:


> I have had very little hands on with these chaps to be honest but with the cave idea, something as simple as a draw could be added to the bottom turned upside down, a hole could be cut in the center and with a bit of cerativity could have polystyrene or anything really, painted up around it to make it look natural with a cave/rocky effect, it would look awesome too in my opinion.
> 
> You could then maintain a warm temperature inside of it with a heat mat  very simple and easy one for the cave part.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sal! I agree with you that it could be done simpler but I feel like I want to try and do something really special for Chilli. Though once I have the Viv bought and start to Mod I will be asking opinions on setups and layouts so we will see! Thanks again!


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

awwww......nice comments about ones self is always nice to see!  thank you very much! thats really cheered me up. 

i started with the concept of moist hides though soon realised that the hides would not provide sufficient space and then mr.c then informed me of his ideas. which of course is just brilliant. 

i was researching a lot on the natural habitats of chuckwalla igunas and realised through discussion with fellow keepers in the US that we are missing a massive part of their environment by keeping them in captivity as we do...thus we must, in order for us to recreate a natural environment as closely as possible, provide burrows of moist sand. 

in order to maintain the humidity found in burrows of wild chucks, up to 80%, the frame for the 'underground' facility would have to be made of glass or perspex as timber is unlikely to hold the same humidity and will be damaged by the moisture over time as chucks are likely to claw at the walls also. 

thus i will be implimenting a smaller perspex vivarium into the 5x2x3 vivarium. the perspex viv being either 5x1x1 or 4x1x1. 

the perspex will be ventilated with small holes all along the top and sides of each wall. 

the vivarium will have a hinged lid making it easy to access the 'underground' burrowing facility. 

the lid of the vivarium will have several holes around 7-11cm wide. 

see net of vivarium below. 









ive emailed a perspex company and i am awaiting a quote. 

the top and sides of the perspex vivarium will be black in colour. 

the benefits of this system are huge and dont think for a second that the chucks will be in here all day, they are a sun loving species that love to bask, run, play and generally exert energy


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

chuckwallas do notice reflection though i have not yet seen the males demonstrate any behaviour indicating they see their reflection as a threat. if this was the case then they would head bob and do press ups, maybe even do a dance but they havnt so far? perhaps in the future i will test this more.


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## cobe (Nov 24, 2010)

Nice one emilie i know for a fact you have the most content chucks i have ever seen...


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

cobe said:


> Nice one emilie i know for a fact you have the most content chucks i have ever seen...


I agree , I aim to be as good an owner as she is!


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

cobe said:


> Nice one emilie i know for a fact you have the most content chucks i have ever seen...


thank you, but there is always room for improvement. 



MrC4FF said:


> I agree , I aim to be as good an owner as she is!


oh but you are. i dont doubt for a second that i do some things wrong. its all learning and even more importantly in a species such as chuckwallas which are very rare in captivity. 

in a way i like to think we are fortunate that chuckwallas are so sensitive and show stress so quickly, this allows us to more prescisely correct what we are doing wrong. 

most of all, i ask all people purchasing the wild caught and captive farmed chuckwallas to look at chuckwallas in their natural habitat. 

80% of the chucks i see are very underweight. they are fat, round, stocky lizards with lots of muscle and should be very strong. they are agile in ways which few other lizards are and can climb surfaces upside down with very little effort. 

if your chuckwalla isnt active between the hours of 9-4, there is bound to be something wrong with your chuckwalla, obviously not including brumation. 

they are very active species which will spend the day grazing, basking, climbing and demonstrating.


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

*UPDATE!*

Well, a tiny update. I had the pleasure of cutting down a rather large Elder tree today, it was trying to consume my cherry tree and we couldn't be having that! I managed to salvage as much decent wood as I could, which I will now leave to dry and then play with (I was thinking about maybe hollowing some out or something maybe, not sure yet! PIC!










:2thumb:


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## dionator (Oct 16, 2008)

Tint wouldn't work, which ever side of the glass you put it, the lizard would be able to see out and you wont be able to see in, which would be the oposit of what you won't. The reason the tinted windows would its because it's light outside and darker in your car so people can't see inside. if it was pitch dark outside and light inside the vivarium then he wouldnt be able to see you, but you won't it the other way round. Hope that makes sense


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Nice ideas! 

One thing to bear in mind that, because it hasn't been said yet. Is that humidity is a devil for wrecking stuff... remember to seal all joints well, especially the bare edge once you have cut the 'devider'. And be aware that what ever method use to black out the windows (window tint might peel and curtains go mouldy), might need protecting against the humidity too, though they should be ok if they are on the outside. 

And I personally would have my entrance hole not right at the side just because it looks awkard to get down a ramp like that, though I am sure they would do it just fine. I'd probably have staggered shelves and deep substrate.

Very nice looking wood. I could do with some nice chunky peices like those (look like they are) :hmm: *heads in search for a tree to cut down*


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

dionator said:


> Tint wouldn't work, which ever side of the glass you put it, the lizard would be able to see out and you wont be able to see in, which would be the oposit of what you won't. The reason the tinted windows would its because it's light outside and darker in your car so people can't see inside. if it was pitch dark outside and light inside the vivarium then he wouldnt be able to see you, but you won't it the other way round. Hope that makes sense


Thanks for letting me know before I went out to buy the stuff! Should've thought about it logically! I am now thinking about that fine mesh stuff you can get like the window of a microwave, its dark inside the microwave but if you get close you can still see what's inside. What do we all think about that idea?



em_40 said:


> Nice ideas!
> 
> One thing to bear in mind that, because it hasn't been said yet. Is that humidity is a devil for wrecking stuff... remember to seal all joints well, especially the bare edge once you have cut the 'devider'. And be aware that what ever method use to black out the windows (window tint might peel and curtains go mouldy), might need protecting against the humidity too, though they should be ok if they are on the outside.
> 
> ...


Thanks for mentioning it, I am definatly going to use sealent but I am also going to be using sculpted space foam with sand blasted grout for the walls and cave ceiling, which is also waterproof .

At the moment the only reason the enterance bit is awkward is I'm trying to think of the best method to keep humidity inside the bottom section. Any ideas on that I would be very grateful for .


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Just so we are all on the same page, here is some of the inspiration I am using for the build:





































Mr. Caff: victory:


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

MrC4FF said:


> *UPDATE!*
> 
> Well, a tiny update. I had the pleasure of cutting down a rather large Elder tree today, it was trying to consume my cherry tree and we couldn't be having that! I managed to salvage as much decent wood as I could, which I will now leave to dry and then play with (I was thinking about maybe hollowing some out or something maybe, not sure yet! PIC!
> 
> ...


the chucks love to hide inside hollow branches. its their fav spots. make sure the space is quite snug so its dark and comfortable inside. 

the timber can also hold humidity so occassionally i give the inside a little misting which the guys seem to enjoy. 



dionator said:


> Tint wouldn't work, which ever side of the glass you put it, the lizard would be able to see out and you wont be able to see in, which would be the oposit of what you won't. The reason the tinted windows would its because it's light outside and darker in your car so people can't see inside. if it was pitch dark outside and light inside the vivarium then he wouldnt be able to see you, but you won't it the other way round. Hope that makes sense


my sand box, as im calling it for short lol, will be constructed of coloured perspex and thus the chucks will be unable to see out and i unable to see in. 

this will provide them with ample security when depositing eggs or settling for the night. 



em_40 said:


> Nice ideas!
> 
> One thing to bear in mind that, because it hasn't been said yet. Is that humidity is a devil for wrecking stuff... remember to seal all joints well, especially the bare edge once you have cut the 'devider'. And be aware that what ever method use to black out the windows (window tint might peel and curtains go mouldy), might need protecting against the humidity too, though they should be ok if they are on the outside.
> 
> ...


i agree the ramp doesnt seem the most ideal for the chuckwallas. they would be missing out on the enrichment of digging through the clay or sand for themselves. 

also in the wild chuckwallas would use more than one exit/entrance in burrows but for nesting burrows only use the one entrance. 

there should be several discrete entrances and exits avaliable for the chuckwallas, they are likely to become stressed if an exit is not readily avaliable to them. 

i did breifly mention the damage that humidity makes to vivariums hence why an internal waterproof vivarium seems to make a lot of sense to me. 



MrC4FF said:


> Just so we are all on the same page, here is some of the inspiration I am using for the build:
> 
> image
> 
> ...


some great inspiration there. be careful when decorating, as you know chucks are very agile and will want to jump on lighting etc lol. i dont know how you intend on making the rocks but i suggest varnishing them greatly, male chucks fluids are harder to shift than females....if you catch my drift. lol.


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Hello everyone! It's update time!

After careful financial consideration, I.E. being broke :lol2: I have had to make a couple of minor changes.

Rather than using the AX48, because I need to buy another viv for quarantine for a second chuck when I get him, I thought what about making two EX48's into one big (height) viv BUT make it so they can be detatched from one another to become seperate once again! Sketches and ideas are in the works but for now, check this out...

Products ordered:

SKU Product VAT Item Price Quantity Total
TVV242A Vivexotic Ex48 Winchester Oak 
20%
£84.92 1 £84.92
LAR071 Arcadia T5 Reflector 34 inch 
20%
£8.53 1 £8.53
LAD073 Arcadia T5 D3 Reptile Lamp 39W 6% 34in 
20%
£19.93 1 £19.93
LAS364 Arcadia Electronic T5 Twin Controller 24-39W (ACE2U5) 
20%
£36.01 1 £36.01
LAH100 Arcadia Ceramic Lamp Holder & Bracket 
20%
£10.61 1 £10.61
LAH075 Arcadia Halogen Basking Spot 75W ES 
20%
£9.90 1 £9.90
SZE111 Zoo Med Excavator Clay Bulk Box 11Kg XR-25 
20%
£15.50 1 £15.50

:2thumb:: victory:

Mr. Caff.


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## 66921 (Feb 12, 2011)

Hey all, update for you here! At the moment I am having to put this project on hold. I have two viv's now but I'm trying to look into alternative options using one viv rather than two. I will keep you all updated but for now this one's on the bench .


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