# GSD and sloping backs.



## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Found this old picture, GSD with a straight back








How did this happen, especially the Yank one. 










Its not the way I remember them growing up.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't know how they got like that (I know it's better for 'showing', the more sloped down the better :roll, but I think it's disgusting. Why on earth would people want a dog to look this unnatural?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Most German shepherds dont have sloping backs they are just stood ( stacked) to look like that for showing (the extended leg makes their backs drop). My friend breeds and shows Shepherds(German lines) and all the ones I have had have come from her, not one has had a sloping back or any other health problems. It does make me cross when people see photos of show dogs and think this is how they are in real life!


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> Most German shepherds dont have sloping backs they are just stood ( stacked) to look like that for showing (the extended leg makes their backs drop). My friend breeds and shows Shepherds(German lines) and all the ones I have had have come from her, not one has had a sloping back or any other health problems. It does make me cross when people see photos of show dogs and think this is how they are in real life!


There back doesn't slope but they do have shorter hind ends than front ends in a lot of cases, causing the look.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

DavieB said:


> There back doesn't slope but they do have shorter hind ends than front ends in a lot of cases, causing the look.


A well bred dog doesnt have shorter back legs its the way they are stood, when not in show stance they have 4 normal sized legs and a short straight back

My friends website http://www.avinjasgsd.com/index.html all the adults are stacked but I see these dogs 5 days a week and they really are a normal shape


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> A well bred dog doesnt have shorter back legs its the way they are stood, when not in show stance they have 4 normal sized legs and a short straight back
> 
> My friends website Avinja's German Shepherds all the adults are stacked but I see these dogs 5 days a week and they really are a normal shape


I believe you but you cant say all GSD are like this now, surely?


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Isn't the original picture hitler and Eva Braun?


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Rach1 said:


> Isn't the original picture hitler and Eva Braun?


Yer it is, they were doggy people must have been nice company lol


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

DavieB said:


> I believe you but you cant say all GSD are like this now, surely?


 
Thats why I said well bred:lol2:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Davie if you could find even 1 in 20 German shepherds looking like that I would be very surprised. (although if you have a prolific breeder of these mutants close by it may appear to be more near you)

I hate how many think all GSDs are this screwed up after that PDExposed programme. The fact is that GSDs have high hipscores as a breed, just like 90% of large breeds and all of the top 10 most common larger breeds, in their favour they do not tend to have even close to the shoulder issues Labradors for example have and yet even having therefore better limb health than a show line lab the programme picked up on this small minority of GSDs

A few, very very few breeders made their dogs have that look as though stacked when they were not. Most breeders hated the look and even in show dogs it was very uncommon, they just simply did not show their normal dogs under the judges that accepted the exaggeration.

As a German Shepherd owner trust me I notice every GSD around, and there have been maybe 3 I have seen like this over say the past year or 2. Although of course, one was so bad that it looked permanently like it was in the position mine is in when she is crouched for a dump :blush:


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

I'd like to point out I don't think all german shepherds look like this, there are 3 or 4 get walked round here and they have sloped backs. I'd imagine they are all from backyard breeders tbh. My point is I don't remember seeing them like this at all when I aws growing up. 

I never took everything said in Pedigree dogs exposed as gospel. I never saw the first one and I dont think I saw GSD on the second edition.


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## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> Isn't the original picture hitler and Eva Braun?


I love that she's got and Aberdeen Terrier... says a lot about the temperaments she's attracted to! :lol2:

(Let's hope there's no owners on here eh LOL)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Most German shepherds dont have sloping backs they are just stood ( stacked) to look like that for showing (the extended leg makes their backs drop). My friend breeds and shows Shepherds(German lines) and all the ones I have had have come from her, not one has had a sloping back or any other health problems. It does make me cross when people see photos of show dogs and think this is how they are in real life!


I agree with Shell. The dog is standing relaxed so it is "four square" like all other dogs are stood to show, so the back is level. If the dog was 'stacked' with one hind leg out further behind it, then the back would slope, because when you place that hind leg out behind the dog, the foot of the remaining leg drops to a lower position, causing the hindlegs to look shorter and the back to slope - as you can clearly see from this picture what I pinched from t'internet. If this dog was standing the same as Hitler's dog, it would have a level back, because the dog would be standing on his 'toes'.










Me personally, I hate to see a dog set up 'overextended'. Only my opinion, but for me this Afghan Hound's hind legs have been extended too far, causing this dog to look weak in the back. I think if I put any weight on its back it would collapse. Maybe you have to use some 'imagination' to see the difference between a 'stance' and a weak back??


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

feorag said:


> I agree with Shell. The dog is standing relaxed so it is "four square" like all other dogs are stood to show, so the back is level. If the dog was 'stacked' with one hind leg out further behind it, then the back would slope, because when you place that hind leg out behind the dog, the foot of the remaining leg drops to a lower position, causing the hindlegs to look shorter and the back to slope - as you can clearly see from this picture what I pinched from t'internet. If this dog was standing the same as Hitler's dog, it would have a level back, because the dog would be standing on his 'toes'.
> 
> image
> 
> ...


I dont argue that most are stacked. My main thing was who thought this looked good and why would it be bred as a trait to the extent the US lines got like that on 2002. Its not nice looking at all imho and i find it a strange trait to exaggerate.


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## kitkat_ (Aug 26, 2009)

Have a look at this video I just searched on youtube. It shows a perfectly straight backed GSD being put into a "stack" and it shows just how just changing leg position gives the sloped look of the back

Stacking a German Shepherd - Halle - YouTube


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Heres the last police dog we puppy walked: Picture 010 - YouTube

He is very well bred and his daddy sold for megabucks - better not say how much or I might get in trouble!


Got the next little pup coming soon.. eek! :flrt:


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Pouchie said:


> Heres the last police dog we puppy walked: Picture 010 - YouTube
> 
> He is very well bred and his daddy sold for megabucks - better not say how much or I might get in trouble!
> 
> ...


Really like GSD, only dog I've ever had a bad bite off too lol. Sadly their on the allergic list.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

DavieB said:


> I dont argue that most are stacked. My main thing was who thought this looked good and why would it be bred as a trait to the extent the US lines got like that on 2002. Its not nice looking at all imho and i find it a strange trait to exaggerate.


 
I dont know who thought it would look good but thats how they have to be stood for the show ring


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

DavieB said:


> I dont argue that most are stacked. My main thing was who thought this looked good and why would it be bred as a trait to the extent the US lines got like that on 2002. Its not nice looking at all imho and i find it a strange trait to exaggerate.


This is what I don't get either? What's the attraction? :hmm:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

On the basis that every other breed (I think :blush shows 'four square' I've never been able to understand this either!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive just found this short explanation

"It is done to show off the angulation needed for the drive of a full days work in the fields. This is why they have a sloping topline too, to allow their legs to get underneath them for the necessary drive."


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> Ive just found this short explanation
> 
> "It is done to show off the angulation needed for the drive of a full days work in the fields. This is why they have a sloping topline too, to allow their legs to get underneath them for the necessary drive."


Do Collies, Rottis, Ovcharkas, etc etc etc, not need to show the same then lol. You can't even tell Poli's have legs. I do like Poli's a very strange looking dog..


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Not sure that that makes total sense to me as a lot of dogs have to have 'drive' when they are working (or showing) but they don't 'stack' like this?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

DavieB said:


> Do Collies, Rottis, Ovcharkas, etc etc etc, not need to show the same then lol. You can't even tell Poli's have legs lol. I do like Poli's a very strange looking dog..


I will ask my friend when I see her tomorrow, hopefully she can answer that lol


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## DavieB (Mar 15, 2011)

Shell195 said:


> I will ask my friend when I see her tomorrow, hopefully she can answer that lol


Token Puli picture.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I will ask my friend when I see her tomorrow, hopefully she can answer that lol


Please do - it would be interesting to know why they do this, because I am sure every other breed stands square.



DavieB said:


> Token Puli picture.
> 
> image


Are you sure that's a Puli?? It looks like one of those wet mops that people in stocks have thrown at them! :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

DavieB said:


> Token Puli picture.
> 
> image


It looks like one of those wool pompoms I made as a kid:lol2:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I think though there are two different questions here.

Why are they stood to show a slope? I believe the point is to show the musculature for movement when stood still. a German shepherd is a strongly "rear wheel drive" dog so the stance reflects this 
But more over
Why some lines then went so far to show a sloping back on dogs that where not stacked. ie the roached backs.

There are many dogs that are shown in odd positions, the terrier group are shown with both back legs pulled back a bit further than normal. Just go down this list here http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/Default.aspx?group=TERR the images at the top of every breed page is a drawing of that breed in shown stance.
Schnauzers here for example dfs Crufts 2011 - Best of Breed Schnauzer - YouTube
Even though show dogs are trained to go into their show stance to some degree at a couple of points you can see their back legs being moved back in this video 

The German shepherd is shown with one paw forward, and to be honest my dog actually does that stance naturally a lot and she is as far from a show type as you could probably get with her still looking perfect in my eyes, ie her eyes point to the sky and her face is not a horrible foxy one some are prone to or beaky like a Belgian shepherd. I am sure if they thought they could manage it they would show pointers/HPRs in a stance with one paw up as though pointing...my retriever does this stance a fair amount too.


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## ermgravy (Sep 19, 2009)

sorry to jump in late as ever but gsd? go ddr or go home... :whistling2:

ill catch up on the rest...

ok, no in usa american line gsd's unless stood on a fecking yellow pages do in fact have slopping rears, short hind ends... and id say over here its more like 4th the population and raising in occurrence... american line gsd's are not wprk fit... no police force in the usa uses home bloodline gsd's they are renowned as a weak washed out race worse than us akitas...


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