# corn snake morphs



## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

been having a play around with the corn calculator and was wondering a few things. i know america are ahead of us regards morphs etc.. but why arent we ahead of our time? cant find pictures of some of these and mind you these are only if some poss hets show, but only 6-9yrs away for someone like me so why are these not widely available by now or are these in peoples breeding plans?

quarz caramel stripe
diffused caramel charcoal stripe
xanthic snow diffused
butter charcoal sripe

like said this is banking on poss hets but just wanted peoples thoughts: victory:


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

To be perfectly honest I am betting that the USA doesn't have any of those morphs either. They're difficult to identify as unique animals without breeding trials AND they need more generations than you think if you want to be absolutely CERTAIN you can get one.

Quartz-Caramel Stripe is a quintuple-homozygous, so you'd need a ridiculous number of generations to get it... and in the end it's going to be a white snake with red eyes.

Caramel Pewter Stripe is quadruple homozygous, and since Charcoal tends to remove the yellows anyway, you'll probably get a pewter lookalike.

Caramel Avalanche, quad homozygous, that might be an interesting one since Xanthic snows are yellower than normal snows; you could get a light butter-yellow snake. 

Blizzard Caramel Stripe would probably also just look like a white snake with red eyes; there are faster and cheaper ways to get the same visual result.

Granted I have one quadruple-homozygous-possibility clutch of eggs (Anery het Glacier Stripe) but the chances of getting it are pretty low indeed.


----------



## adsclarke (Feb 15, 2009)

As Ssthisto says, the problem with the quads and quins is that it is usually very hard to tell the different snakes in a clutch without breeding trials later on. There are loads of possible quad + pattern morphs that would look good so they are worth a go but you need quite a long time of breeding to be sure you have what you think you have!

I think we only have three or four quad traits in the corn calculator at the moment, a lot of the US guys don't have that many. We are a little behind the US but that is mainly because most of the new genes are discovered there. We are catching up though, watch in a couple of years time!

Cheers
Ads


----------



## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

wtf is that crap above:devil:


----------



## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

Danny_mcr said:


> wtf is that crap above:devil:


 right thats scary i never posted that, i never use 'WTF'

cheers for reply's i can see what you mean regards looking like over morphs or identifying if its a new morph. time is a big factor of course and i agree we are not that far behind the US: victory:


----------



## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

I know what you mean here and Ssthisto's post sums it up. The deal is that it's not necessarily the time needed to produce them, it identifying what you've got and then gauranteeing that is what you have! Add to that the fact that most quad-quint homozygotes will 'just' be white snakes, there is little demand for such animals.

For example I have just bought a motley butter (triple homozygous). There are many mutations it doesn't have but not many that I feel would be worth introducing. I could put it with my snow to add anery to the mix in order to try for motley axanthic snows but again we are looking at a whiteish snake (i.e. the anery will reduce the attractive bright yellow hues of the butter so although you may get a slightly yellow version of a motley snow I don't think it is worth doing as I feel the animal is more attractive *with* the yellow.

What I would consider is adding bloodred/diffuse to the mix in order to produce a bright yellow snake, however in real terms I'm not sure that it would be that different to a normal patterned bloodred butter (sulphur) as an adult, however the brightening influence of the motley might improve the adult snake?

Lets say I want to go for a motley suphur. I have already have a butter motley. I therefore need to introduce bloodred. I could get a hatchling this year for £50. Grow them both one and breed them. What have I got? Well I have a litter of normal 100% het motley, caramel, amel and bloodred.
There would be no point breeding these back to parents as niether parent carries ALL the required genes, so the only option is to stick the babies together.
Unfortunately this combo means rediculous odds on producing a motley sulphur (1 in 256) and all the other offspring will be allsorts of possibles/visuals. You could get lucky or it might take ten clutches or more to produce one. Once you have one though, you could breed it to either quad het parent and then you have a 1 in 16 chance (still not fantastic odds).

All that said, it is possible to buy triple homozygotes that are het for other things and with the right combos you can improve odds of quad homozygotes.


Cheers

Andy
p.s. there are probably a few of these quad and quint (sex.. hept..?) in existance but currently growing on in big breeders racks wiating for their chance to prove out what they are!


----------



## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

some that i will be looking at will give 1in1000 chance with some, im not aiming for these but if the odds were in my favour you never know. as said i will be keeping 2 females and 1 male behind and see what comes from that breding. just didn't know if any of these visuals had been produced in america yet or have been proven:2thumb:


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

bothrops said:


> For example I have just bought a motley butter (triple homozygous). There are many mutations it doesn't have but not many that I feel would be worth introducing....What I would consider is adding bloodred/diffuse to the mix in order to produce a bright yellow snake, however in real terms I'm not sure that it would be that different to a normal patterned bloodred butter (sulphur) as an adult, however the brightening influence of the motley might improve the adult snake?


The motley influence would reduce the tendency to borders and give you a much more evenly solid-coloured Sulfur with minimal white flecking and better diffusion - the only pattern trait that'd have a stronger influence would be Stripe. 

And the ideal mate for the butter motley at that point is actually a caramel bloodred - you've got a reasonable chance that it might be het Amel if you're lucky (resulting in caramels het amel bloodred motley and butters het bloodred motley) which improves your chances to a nice and neat one in sixteen. The problem is proving which of your white-bellied motley-patterned offspring are homozygous bloodred and not JUST homozygous motley.



Danny_mcr said:


> some that i will be looking at will give 1in1000 chance with some, im not aiming for these but if the odds were in my favour you never know. as said i will be keeping 2 females and 1 male behind and see what comes from that breding. just didn't know if any of these visuals had been produced in america yet or have been proven:2thumb:


As I said, most of the morphs you've asked about are the sort that people won't know for SURE what they are until they've had breeding trials against each of the ingredients to check. As it is I actually hatched out what I believe to be a quad-homozygous (Glacier Stripe) - but I won't know for SURE what she is for another two years, when I can breed her to a homozygous lavender and see if I get all lavender babies out. I know she HAS to be homozygous for three of the four traits (she's homozygous anery because her parents are, she's homozygous amel because she has red eyes and no black pigment, she's homozygous stripe because she's striped) but it's that fourth trait that's a pain!


----------

