# How many experienced WDA keepers have been bitten



## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

Their is some great looking venomous snakes out there, but all you hear on this forum is ( i carnt wait to get my wda licence ) for new keepers why do you want to endanger your life, as it doesent matter how much training you have had, your going to make mistakes which may result taking a hit


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## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

Sorry DWA


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

People choose to endanger their lives for various reasons. From enjoyment of a hobby to intimate study of the captive care of the animal, the reasons are numerous. You like what you like.
I notice from your profile you ride a motorbike. I could quite easily ask you, why risk your life? I'm sure you're a skilled rider, but you can't bank on the next car / van / lorry driver even seeing you, so you can't deny you too are at risk. And look at the stats. I don't know off hand how many bikers die on the roads annually, but I know catagorically there hasn't been a death from exotic snake envenomation in the UK since the late 1800's, when a keeper at london zoo arrived at work still drunk from the night before and decided it would be a good idea to kiss a common cobra.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

As a snake keeper and motorcycle journalist and occasional tester, can I have extra man points?


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## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

Motorcycles are not dangerous its just the other drivers trying to kill you


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

from what I know theres much more motorbike deaths than from dwa snakes in the uk. infact dont think there are any deaths from dwa snakes in the uk. please correct me if im wrong? we keep them for all sorts of reasons. I keep because I simply love these animals and appreciate their sheer beauty. yeah we risk our lives by dealing with these snakes. its what we do though through sheer love and respect for them.


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## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

dunny1 said:


> from what I know theres much more motorbike deaths than from dwa snakes in the uk. infact dont think there are any deaths from dwa snakes in the uk. please correct me if im wrong? we keep them for all sorts of reasons. I keep because I simply love these animals when your fighting for yourand appreciate their sheer beauty. yeah we risk our lives by dealing with these snakes. its what we do though through sheer love and respect for them.


 
Hold on a bit, you dont need a DMCL to ride a motor cycle, dangerous motorcycle licence to ride a bike,sounds like your trying to change it round, dwa licence is their for a reason. I can see why you guys love these snakes but is it all worth it, are you going to love and respect your snakes when your fighting for your life


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Long way down said:


> Motorcycles are not dangerous its just the other drivers trying to kill you


That's exactly the point I was making. It's beyond your control, so YOU are risking your life. But still you do it. See my point? Would you justify what you do with anything more than "because I enjoy it" if someone questioned you for riding? I doubt it. So why should we, as venoous keepers, justify what we do?
And for the record, the DWA licence is to protect the public. Not you.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

Long way down said:


> are you going to love and respect your snakes when your fighting for your life


Yes, as it happens.


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

Long way down said:


> Motorcycles are not dangerous its just the other drivers trying to kill you


 
Herpetologists are not dangerous, its just the snakes trying to kill you. 


The above is basically what you said. :whistling2:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Most other things have been covered from what i have seen on the thread and i agree with Dave but then i always do:Na_Na_Na_Na:.

But i would just like to ask, have you asked on the snake section about those who keep big pythons?
IMO Its more likely that somebody keeping a big retic or burmese will be killed than a DWAL holder. There are no regulations and any one can have one and at 10 foot they are at a size where they can constrict and kill an adult.


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## pauls_reptiles (Apr 5, 2010)

leecb0 said:


> Most other things have been covered from what i have seen on the thread and i agree with Dave but then i always do:Na_Na_Na_Na:.
> 
> But i would just like to ask, have you asked on the snake section about those who keep big pythons?
> IMO Its more likely that somebody keeping a big retic or burmese will be killed than a DWAL holder. There are no regulations and any one can have one and at 10 foot they are at a size where they can constrict and kill an adult.


 
well said : victory:


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

not trying to turn it round I was just saying. also if any of us got tagged yes we'd still love and respect our snakes. if u had a bike accident I hope u never do but if u did would u still love ur bike??


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## Richcymru (Nov 21, 2008)

Long way down said:


> Hold on a bit, you dont need a DMCL to ride a motor cycle, dangerous motorcycle licence to ride a bike,sounds like your trying to change it round, dwa licence is their for a reason. I can see why you guys love these snakes but is it all worth it, are you going to love and respect your snakes when your fighting for your life


No, you Don't need a dangerous motorcycle license, just a motorcycle license. A license non the less which is also there for a reason.


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## dunny1 (Feb 2, 2009)

also. we get bit we have antivenin u have a hundred mile per hour smash wheres ur antivenin. bottom line u ride bikes we keep hots we do it because we enjoy it. bikes for u snakes for us


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## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

Ok guys i can see your point fair play, its just that you get guys like exoticsadmirer who are young and want a dwa, no disrespect to our young chap here, but how do they gain the experience of keeping them without making mistakes, all the best to you guys and thanks.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Long way down said:


> Ok guys i can see your point fair play, its just that you get guys like exoticsadmirer who are young and want a dwa, no disrespect to our young chap here, but how do they gain the experience of keeping them without making mistakes, all the best to you guys and thanks.


I know how I plan to do it - should I decide to go down that route, and believe me I'm REALLY thinking about it instead of making a snap decision based on the "I-Want".

First, I'm going to spend as much time as I can around experienced keepers - particularly of the species I'm interested in, but to be honest ANY experience is worth more than NO experience. Watching them manage their animals - both venomous and non - and seeing how they minimise risks in their specific situations. 

Then, assuming I find a keeper who's willing to let me help out, I'd be looking to start getting hands on with maintenance tasks under close supervision with animals of the specific species I am interested in. If I can't find a keeper who's interested, then that might well be where I stop seriously considering any sort of DWA - because I won't go into it blind.

While learning to maintain _healthy _animals, I will also continue working with my own (nonvenomous) animals in sickness and in health to gain the practical skills for things like, say, unshed eyecaps - and learning how to manage an animal that doesn't want me to be messing with something like that, without being bitten.

Once I feel confident in the two skills combined - handling healthy DWA species, managing unhealthy or stroppy non-DWA species - that'd be when I'd be looking into the licencing for myself.


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## Khaos (Jul 9, 2007)

Motorcycling is dangerous. You can get all the kit and training and techniques in the world but, one day, it could all go wrong despite this.

Keeping venomous snakes is dangerous. You can get all the kit and training and techniques in the world but, one day, it could all go wrong despite this.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Long way down said:


> Ok guys i can see your point fair play, its just that you get guys like exoticsadmirer who are young and want a dwa, no disrespect to our young chap here, but how do they gain the experience of keeping them without making mistakes, all the best to you guys and thanks.


The point is most guys who say they are going to get or want to get a DWAL usually dont. We here it a hell of a lot on here but most people who say stuff like that are dreamers, or they just want to be part of something that they think is cool. Truth is most venomous keepers dont keep because its cool, this is the worst reason to keep venomous. But if someone who has been around the hobby for a while and have an incling into getting into venomous they usually will know venomous keepers and they will usually get experience with those people. If someone has to post a thread on here, my opinion is they have not been around the hobby long enough and with the advent of the internet networking is so much easyer than it was when i got mentored years ago.


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## Dazzo (Jan 19, 2008)

I would like to keep venomous when I'm older......much much older but as leecb0 said not because they are cool but because I'm fascinated by them and really enjoy the thought of keeping them. An interest in husbandry,visual,genetics,temperment,feeding responses,characteristics etc. I decided on viperids along time ago!!

I got into keeping constrictors for the same reason, and will continue to keep them which is why I need to wait for a long period when i'll have a good amount of spare time to do so.

For now it's the internet, factual tv shows and viperkeepers channel.....who doesn't make enough videos!

leecb0 do you still hold a DWAL?


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## exoticsadmirer (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey i kinda think it's offensive to be dragged into an discussion without being informed yes i would like DWA but like i said in the thread i made it would be much later decision and maybe i won't get one time will tell but seeming as no one wants to talk to me about it i highly doubt i'll ever actually get anywhere to making a progression in that decision.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Dazzo said:


> I would like to keep venomous when I'm older......much much older but as leecb0 said not because they are cool but because I'm fascinated by them and really enjoy the thought of keeping them. An interest in husbandry,visual,genetics,temperment,feeding responses,characteristics etc. I decided on viperids along time ago!!
> 
> I got into keeping constrictors for the same reason, and will continue to keep them which is why I need to wait for a long period when i'll have a good amount of spare time to do so.
> 
> ...


Yes i do but i am moving abroad so moved all venomous on and most of the non venomous. Personally i keep/kept venomous for nothing more than appearance. i really am not that botherd about taxonimy, toxinology, genetics....etc. I have done all the morph breeding in the past with certain snakes, and i know a little about the effects of bites and the make up of venom, etc. But i live keeping what ever i keep for the sheer pleasure of it and nothing else. I admit i do a lot of research on narutal history of snakes that i intend to keep, but i am a snake keeper or a herpecultualist nothing more.


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## SirSlithers (May 8, 2010)

I'm considering a dwa but not for the reason of keeping venemous. I'm fascinated by the videos of dwarf caimens on here and they are something id consider keeping one day. Still that one day is still a long way off.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

To the DWAL holders, you guys must get seriously bored with this right? No offence to anyone at all, but alot of the guys n gals asking about the DWAL come across to me as not very serious harmless reptile keepers. Some people are keeping a boa morph and an emperor scorpions and you want a DWAL? why? If you ask me your not a serious keeper and that is something you need to be. I've seen people post threads telling that you have just bought this new boa morph and then asking how to keep it and then within a few months its for sale ''due to unforeseen circumstances'' and then weeks later they ask about getting a DWAL!!!!!!! If you have to get rid of your single boa and scorp presumably because your bored then venomous snakes are not for you in any way, shape or form. In my opinion when doing your daily servicing you need to be as enthusiastic, sharp and keen as you were the day you bought venomous snake, no good getting sloppy thats how accidents happen!


Please excuse me, Ive just got back from Hamm and I'm narky as hell and very tired.: victory:

Excuse the spellings too..


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## Carnuss (Feb 27, 2011)

I doubt anyone that has been bitten will be around to leave a post. wned8:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Carnuss said:


> I doubt anyone that has been bitten will be around to leave a post. wned8:


With appropriate medical care applied in a timely fashion, people - particularly healthy adults - are very likely to survive a bite. It's not like a one-shot insta-kill.

Stepped on a wild rattler over a decade ago. Got bit. Still posting here.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Carnuss said:


> I doubt anyone that has been bitten will be around to leave a post. wned8:


there are a few exotic bites in the UK each year, and no death has happend for over a hundred years.....:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

People like what they like, simple as that.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> there are a few exotic bites in the UK each year, and no death has happend for over a hundred years.....:Na_Na_Na_Na:


I recall reading a thread on here about a year back or two about someone who was bit by a rattle snake I think, was one of the shop keepers, can't remember which one now but he survived.


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## Carnuss (Feb 27, 2011)

Ssthisto said:


> With appropriate medical care applied in a timely fashion, people - particularly healthy adults - are very likely to survive a bite. It's not like a one-shot insta-kill.
> 
> Stepped on a wild rattler over a decade ago. Got bit. Still posting here.



:shock: phhh, madness, lucky you!


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> With appropriate medical care applied in a timely fashion, people - particularly healthy adults - are very likely to survive a bite. It's not like a one-shot insta-kill.
> 
> Stepped on a wild rattler over a decade ago. Got bit. Still posting here.


 Depending on what you are bitten by.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

STReptiles said:


> Depending on what you are bitten by.


As I said, "very likely" to live with appropriate medical care given in a timely fashion. I can't think of any species of venomous snake that are known to kill "instantly" or anything near it, but that doesn't mean they don't exist


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Only in very extreme and rare circumstances are you likely to be killed within 10 mins from a venomous snake bite


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

STReptiles said:


> Depending on what you are bitten by.


And what do you think will then?


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## Lamprophis (Jun 12, 2008)

There are many factors to consider should someone receive a bite such as bite location, amount of venom injected and species. Also, secondary aspects need to be examined such as first aid administered. 

Due to antivenom production and availability we are in a very priveledged situation here in the U.K and snake bites are very treatable, often with full revoveries. Unfortunately a sad truth is that many countries don't have this luxury!


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## MDV1 (Nov 27, 2010)

The number of keepers bitten each year, is, quite simply, irrelevent.You do not need to know. All you need to know, is that it will be in your best interest to not be a part of those figures each year, or, any year, in fact.If you enjoy something, are serious about doing something, and are passionate about doing that thing you enjoy, then you will do it, however you will minimalise the risks involved.Riding motorcycles is dangerous, keeping venomous snakes is dangerous, even crossing a busy road is dangerous. There are very few things in life that you can do, with no risks involved - it is your responsibility to minimalise those risks.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> And what do you think will then?


 I wasnt saying it would kill you instantly, thats not what I meant. The statement came across to me as it wont kill you.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

STReptiles said:


> I wasnt saying it would kill you instantly, thats not what I meant. The statement came across to me as it wont kill you.


No, the statement was "a healthy adult is very likely to live if they have appropriate medical treatment."

That doesn't mean "everyone will live."
That doesn't mean "nobody will die."
It absolutely doesn't mean "It won't kill you."
That just means that, if you're a* healthy adult* that gets bitten but gets the *right medical care quickly*, you're_ probably _going to live. 

Now, that said, "probably going to live" covers a range from "completely unscathed" to "loss of limbs/function". 

Places where appropriate medical care isn't available or isn't available fast?
Your chances of surviving unscathed are a lot lower, and your chances of dying are higher. Three miles up a canyon in New Mexico, on foot, alone and before the age of cellphones, knowing I couldn't afford medical care if I needed it, and afraid that trying to walk out might be making it worse? Not an experience I care to repeat.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> No, the statement was "a healthy adult is very likely to live if they have appropriate medical treatment."
> 
> That doesn't mean "everyone will live."
> That doesn't mean "nobody will die."
> ...


Yes, sorry I didnt read it properly.


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