# Does anyone privately keep Komodo Dragons



## snakelover13

just a plain simple question anyone on here privately keep these rather large but beautiful beasties? 
if so how and where 
also if you do a pat on the back from me :lol2:


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## StevenM31

yeah got 2 :whistling2::whistling2: lol dont think they are DWA though, not on the list is it?:whistling2:


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## DogMan84

snakelover13 said:


> just a plain simple question anyone on here privately keep these rather large but beautiful beasties?
> if so how and where
> also if you do a pat on the back from me :lol2:


Yeah but it out grew the 4ft viv I kept it in,so I let it swim away down the toilet :2thumb:


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## Bradleybradleyc

snakelover13 said:


> just a plain simple question anyone on here privately keep these rather large but beautiful beasties?
> if so how and where
> also if you do a pat on the back from me :lol2:



http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/698510-komodo-dragon-monitor-lizard.html


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## Jstephen

Not that I know of, my local zoo has two tho'


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## stevenrudge

*reply*

As strange as it might seem about 12 years ago l was offered some for sale,£4500. each if l remember,l sure if it was legal or not but you could purchase them


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## sherburt

As far as I know it's not legal to have them in a private collection.

You not only require a zoo licence but also must get permission from the government from where they originate (I can't recall whether it's the government or king lol)


Also if you did manage to find one, acquire a zoo licence and the required permission you would need to remortgage your house to purchase one as your probably talking at least 50k.


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## HowseR21

Imagine the size of the enclosure!!:gasp: My god!

I didn't think you were allowed to keep them privately as mentioned above you need permission from their government AND a zoo licence.

Having said that..... that'll probably be Biebers next "travelling pet" :lol2:


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## stark

HowseR21 said:


> Having said that..... that'll probably be Biebers next "travelling pet" :lol2:


We can only hope that it gets hungry.

Tom


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## HowseR21

stark said:


> We can only hope that it gets hungry.
> 
> Tom


Ahhh please please please please please please :flrt:


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## Chris Newman

Firstly Komodo dragons are not on the Dangerous Wild Animals Act! Secondly all Komodo’s are owned by the Indonesian government, they only allow them out on breeding loan, the loan agreement extends to all animals bred whilst on loan. To my knowledge there is only one private keeper with them and he is in the Canary Islands, again the animals are owned by the Indonesia government. You occasionally see idiots who claim they have them for sale, or they have been offered them, take such claims with a pinch of salt……!!


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## Nel5on

That's interesting, alot of zoos are now not even bothering to incubate eggs as there is no homes for them?


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## mikeyb

thats wrong they legally have to give all fertile eggs the oppertunity to hatch out due to them being endangered even if there then given back to the king of komodo island. to be fair if u had a farm down here in cornwall i can see it being any more difficult than keeping a horse there plenty of bunnies to shoot and feed one and pigs and sheep and defo exmoor ponies are cheap to buy for food ud need one big freezer though its jsut the heating requirements that wouldnt really be any more difficult than keeping dwa crocs if anything easier as its only the air needing to be heated not the water too and no pumps etc. its prob the logistics of actually aquiring one thats the hard part


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## longqi

Chris Newman said:


> Firstly Komodo dragons are not on the Dangerous Wild Animals Act! Secondly all Komodo’s are owned by the Indonesian government, they only allow them out on breeding loan, the loan agreement extends to all animals bred whilst on loan. To my knowledge there is only one private keeper with them and he is in the Canary Islands, again the animals are owned by the Indonesia government. You occasionally see idiots who claim they have them for sale, or they have been offered them, take such claims with a pinch of salt……!!


About 4 years ago 3 babies vanished from Surabaya zoo
Ended up in Europe
We were offered a young female in Bali
About 14 privately owned ones in Malaysia I know of
Plenty in private collections in Indonesia


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## stevemusson

stevenrudge said:


> As strange as it might seem about 12 years ago l was offered some for sale,£4500. each if l remember,l sure if it was legal or not but you could purchase them


Yeah I've been offered them for £10000 before. It is legal as long as the Indonesian government know you have it as they all belong to them officially but they're only registered as CITES the same as red knee tarantulas and various torts


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## stevemusson

Chris Newman said:


> Firstly Komodo dragons are not on the Dangerous Wild Animals Act! Secondly all Komodo’s are owned by the Indonesian government, they only allow them out on breeding loan, the loan agreement extends to all animals bred whilst on loan. To my knowledge there is only one private keeper with them and he is in the Canary Islands, again the animals are owned by the Indonesia government. You occasionally see idiots who claim they have them for sale, or they have been offered them, take such claims with a pinch of salt……!!


The 10 grand put me off seeing if the ones I was offered where legit or not tbh :lol2:


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## Rhodes

*Komodo*

No officer i have no idea what one is, where they are purchased or where you can find one! Lol


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## frogmachine

Komodo Dragon - Pets or Food.com


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## cfg123

stevenrudge said:


> As strange as it might seem about 12 years ago l was offered some for sale,£4500. each if l remember,l sure if it was legal or not but you could purchase them


I've heard of people who claim they got a few "Asian water monitors". They can get quite big when fully grown, but nowhere near as big as a komodo, and somewhat less aggressive.

In any case, if it is so difficult to obtain and own a komodo, then the very question of owning one becomes a moot point, unless you move to a different jurisdiction.


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## leecb0

I know or know of some serious monitor keepers, guys who are in the higher echelon of that aspect of keeping and have kept some very rare and hard to get hold of animals. non of them who i know have been offered Komodo's. so i really find it hard to believe those who are not in that circle say they have been offered them. The simple fact is IF there were any out there up for sale, the person selling them would be up there in the know. and he would in turn know who to sell them on to, im afraid it wouldnt be joe blogs who keeps a couple of small lizards or some snakes. Also if as people have claimed that there have been offers for sale of komodo's where are they? if you didnt buy them someone else would? 
personally i feel if someone says they have been offered a komodo, you are either talking BS or the person offereing them is.


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## Demonique

DogMan84 said:


> Yeah but it out grew the 4ft viv I kept it in,so I let it swim away down the toilet :2thumb:


LOL


Also, I have to ask, what is that gif in your signature from?


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## Jabba the mentor

Chris Newman said:


> Firstly Komodo dragons are not on the Dangerous Wild Animals Act! Secondly all Komodo’s are owned by the Indonesian government, they only allow them out on breeding loan, the loan agreement extends to all animals bred whilst on loan. To my knowledge there is only one private keeper with them and he is in the Canary Islands, again the animals are owned by the Indonesia government. You occasionally see idiots who claim they have them for sale, or they have been offered them, take such claims with a pinch of salt……!!


Im sure the SOB has them in his private collection here in the UK and I know someone in the early 1990's had one in the South West thanks to Mr Wong but wouldnt know if its still around


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## Ieuan7

You don't own this dragon

The dragon owns you!

VERY pointless 'Pet' companion as these fellas are the true meaning of cold-blooded killers.

I see no point or benefit to anyone keeping Komodo's in captivity, fair enough if they wer endangered and needed URGENT attention, but they don't, so leave them well alone IMO.

And I agree, only top ranked, Multi-Million pound Zoo's are going to be able to 'Stock' the dinosaurs!


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## AJ76

Ieuan7 said:


> You don't own this dragon
> 
> The dragon owns you!
> 
> VERY pointless 'Pet' companion as these fellas are the true meaning of cold-blooded killers.
> 
> I see no point or benefit to anyone keeping Komodo's in captivity, fair enough if they wer endangered and needed URGENT attention, but they don't, so leave them well alone IMO.
> 
> And I agree, only top ranked, Multi-Million pound Zoo's are going to be able to 'Stock' the dinosaurs!



Thats right because if you cant give it a "cuddle" whats the point in owning it right?????


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## Salazare Slytherin

I very much doubt in most UK private collections the needed space could be provided anyways, most people can't even house iguanas and nile monitors let alone something like a komodo.

Impressive, beautiful animals they may be, but they should really be left where they are imo.


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## AJ76

Salazare Slytherin said:


> I very much doubt in most UK private collections the needed space could be provided anyways, most people can't even house iguanas and nile monitors let alone something like a komodo.
> 
> Impressive, beautiful animals they may be, but they should really be left where they are imo.


why?

If you have the space for one and can look after its needs then get one?

If someone offered me one for sale I would.

If the kids had to play in the neighbours garden then that would be tough 5h1t!


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## Ieuan7

AJ76 said:


> Thats right because if you cant give it a "cuddle" whats the point in owning it right?????


Bit childish, but hey ho.

No, the Komodo will show no respect to any over-egotistic owner as it is top of the food chain in it's natural environment.

Unless you got acres of land, you don't have enough space.

If you do have acres of land, there's no point as you won't see it.

Why make the animals life crap just so you have a 'trophy' animal you can brag about, because I mean, after all that's all it would be because you can't 'cuddle' it.


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## stark

Ieuan7 said:


> Bit childish, but hey ho.
> 
> No, the Komodo will show no respect to any over-egotistic owner as it is top of the food chain in it's natural environment.
> 
> Unless you got acres of land, you don't have enough space.
> 
> If you do have acres of land, there's no point as you won't see it.
> 
> Why make the animals life crap just so you have a 'trophy' animal you can brag about, because I mean, after all that's all it would be because you can't 'cuddle' it.


*sigh*

Tom


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## Ieuan7

stark said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Tom


Please point out everything Iv said that is wrong and explain why.


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## stark

Ieuan7 said:


> Please point out everything Iv said that is wrong and explain why.


How often would you see your bearded dragon if you gave it all the habitat and space it actually comes from, in it's 'natural environment'?
You see it every day because you put it in a box for your own enjoyment. One could call that a trophy animal.
I doubt it has any 'respect' for you either, no matter what level your ego is and I bet you have never asked if it enjoys its life or if it thinks it is crap..?

All privately kept reptiles are kept for the owners benefit. Trying to say that some one will be buying and keeping a Komodo dragon for the wrong reason and that it will end badly is just ignorant :thumb:

Tom


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## Salazare Slytherin

AJ76 said:


> why?
> 
> If you have the space for one and can look after its needs then get one?
> 
> If someone offered me one for sale I would.
> 
> If the kids had to play in the neighbours garden then that would be tough 5h1t!


Why are you asking me why people don't have the space to look after one? :whistling2:
It isn't just the space, it is the nutritional requirements they need too, something again, most people would not be able to afford on a weekly baisis lol.


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## AJ76

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Why are you asking me why people don't have the space to look after one? :whistling2:
> It isn't just the space, it is the nutritional requirements they need too, something again, most people would not be able to afford on a weekly baisis lol.



What I am saying fella is if I wanted one and could get one, I would have one. As long as I could give it what it wanted (which I am sure I could)

I was not asking whether YOU had the space, I was asking why would you not think one could be kept in a private collection if someone could give it what it needed?

Why the need to keep them where they are?

Alex.


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## AJ76

ieuan7 said:


> bit childish, but hey ho.
> 
> No, the komodo will show no respect to any over-egotistic owner as it is top of the food chain in it's natural environment.
> 
> Unless you got acres of land, you don't have enough space.
> 
> If you do have acres of land, there's no point as you won't see it.
> 
> Why make the animals life crap just so you have a 'trophy' animal you can brag about, because i mean, after all that's all it would be because you can't 'cuddle' it.



hahahaaaaaaa!!!!


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## HforHERP

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Why are you asking me why people don't have the space to look after one? :whistling2:
> It isn't just the space, it is the nutritional requirements they need too, something again, most people would not be able to afford on a weekly baisis lol.


This.
Not many people can afford to feed a komodo the amount of meat they would need, and if they could it'd be extremely impractical haha


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## Salazare Slytherin

AJ76 said:


> What I am saying fella is if I wanted one and could get one, I would have one. As long as I could give it what it wanted (which I am sure I could)
> 
> I was not asking whether YOU had the space, I was asking why would you not think one could be kept in a private collection if someone could give it what it needed?
> 
> Why the need to keep them where they are?
> 
> Alex.


Because most couldn't, alot works against lesser demanding species in captivity too, I find it very difficult to imagine somoene could give one what it needs, I have feilds and forests and an orchid at my disposile, a feild full of cows and sheep, and loads of chickens and rabbits I still wouldn't be able to give one what it needs.

I am sure if many people could they would, but the first statement *was* most common keepers can't! leave them where they are. :2thumb: 

There is a wide enough selection of reptiles that can be aquired easily, do better in captivity. 
In my honest opinion, many current ones easily aquired shouldn't even be in the trade either, but that is just my opinion.


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## AJ76

Salazare Slytherin said:


> Because most couldn't, alot works against lesser demanding species in captivity too, I find it very difficult to imagine somoene could give one what it needs, I have feilds and forests and an orchid at my disposile, a feild full of cows and sheep, and loads of chickens and rabbits I still wouldn't be able to give one what it needs.
> 
> I am sure if many people could they would, but the first statement *was* most common keepers can't! leave them where they are. :2thumb:
> 
> There is a wide enough selection of reptiles that can be aquired easily, do better in captivity.
> In my honest opinion, many current ones easily aquired shouldn't even be in the trade either, but that is just my opinion.


sure, but if I had the opportunity I would jump at it.

the field full of cows and sheep would be a great place to start  

Best

Alex


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## ian14

sherburt said:


> As far as I know it's not legal to have them in a private collection.
> 
> *You not only require a zoo licence* but also must get permission from the government from where they originate (I can't recall whether it's the government or king lol)
> 
> 
> Also if you did manage to find one, acquire a zoo licence and the required permission you would need to remortgage your house to purchase one as your probably talking at least 50k.


 
No you dont - a zoo operators licence is simply a licence issued by a local authority to allow you to run a zoo. It has nothing to do wit being able to keep certain species.


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## coldestblood

Why do people assume because they can't give an animal what it needs, no one else can? There are very few people in the UK who can care for a large crocodilian, certain primates, big cats, or large, highly venomous snakes; but there some who can. 

Personally, I think it depends on how dedicated the person is. If they have the funds, the space and the knowledge, why shouldn't they have one? If they were more easily available, I'm pretty sure there are people who'd be willing to offer them a zoo-type enclosure, and give them all they require to live a life similar to those in zoos.


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## Ieuan7

stark said:


> How often would you see your bearded dragon if you gave it all the habitat and space it actually comes from, in it's 'natural environment'?
> You see it every day because you put it in a box for your own enjoyment. One could call that a trophy animal.
> I doubt it has any 'respect' for you either, no matter what level your ego is and I bet you have never asked if it enjoys its life or if it thinks it is crap..?
> 
> All privately kept reptiles are kept for the owners benefit. Trying to say that some one will be buying and keeping a Komodo dragon for the wrong reason and that it will end badly is just ignorant :thumb:
> 
> Tom



So your saying there is NO difference in keeping a bearded dragon or Komodo Dragon?...That's why your basing your side of the debate on?

I personally think their is a MASSIVE difference, considering one will tolerate infinite handling, will gladly eat from your hand, will happily sleep on your lap.
They are also completely fine with man made vivariums, they are very docile creatures that do not 'Explore' or roam per say. Beraded Dragons do not get stressed/aggressive with human interactions. 

The other,

Will try and kill you if get within 20ft of it. It will get stressed and aggressive with human interactions, it will also suffer in man made enclosures unless that enclosure is huge, that huge that you may aswell have the common sense to leave the reptile alone. They may also need to be in groups, all the video footage/documentarys I have seen, there have been 5+ within very close proximity.


I think claiming there is no difference is very naive.


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## Ieuan7

AJ76 said:


> hahahaaaaaaa!!!!


Are you 12 years old or something?

You really do come across as arrogant & childish.

Try contributing rather than posting immature, and frankly embarrassing posts.

Ta,


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## robpilley

Lee is right, there are often offers made which simply aren't true. Some might be testing the water, others are just gossip and rubbish to get an "awesome". 
Half the animals you see on pricelists (retail and trade) aren't actually in anyones shop or house, they are just hypothetical lists for a country of origin and are used just to get your attention. You make the order and then they try and get them in, which most of the time doesn't happen as it was all just words.....!


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## TEG

*komodos*

I must admit if I had more space and more funds I would love to work with them. I am passionate about my monitors and after all that's all these guys are. I would love to try and breed them, but then the problems begin, where do the babies go ? I know there are a number of surplus animals in Europe and I am baffled that some of the bigger monitor keepers haven't got them but I guess its not quite that simple with such an iconic species but I do agree if you have enough money you can buy anything!


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## Chris Newman

Jonathan4 said:


> Cock and bull, you can get anything for sale, apsolutly anything, if people are smuggling people from country to country for sale what make you think they can't smuggle a hatchling monitor, I will say again "you can buy anthing" especially from a third world country, if you beleave otherwise you are a fool.
> 
> I in know means say that in a positive way.


Really, well I am sure you know best…….!!


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## Petersmith

Jonathan4 said:


> Cock and bull, you can get anything for sale, apsolutly anything, if people are smuggling people from country to country for sale what make you think they can't smuggle a hatchling monitor, I will say again "you can buy anthing" especially from a third world country, if you beleave otherwise you are a fool.
> I in know means say that in a positive way.


As his location says- from Mars! Sure you can buy martian's if you know the right aliens!


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## Jack W

ImBatman said:


> I think things like this should 100% be for zoos


I absolutely hate that point of view. What is your reasoning for this opinion? Do you have any evidence or just your opinion?

Surely if someone had enough money and could provide a good enough enclosure that was of zoo quality, etc, what would the problem be. If anything it cold have a better life as it wouldn't have constant tourists hassling it.

You do realise that many people say, and have even said to me, that snakes and lizards should be left just to zoos as well.


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## Doogerie

HowseR21 said:


> Imagine the size of the enclosure!!:gasp: My god!
> 
> I didn't think you were allowed to keep them privately as mentioned above you need permission from their government AND a zoo licence.
> 
> Having said that..... that'll probably be Biebers next "travelling pet" :lol2:


 if it is I hope it eats him those tings will eat anything


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## Jonathan4

robpilley said:


> Lee is right, there are often offers made which simply aren't true. Some might be testing the water, others are just gossip and rubbish to get an "awesome".
> Half the animals you see on pricelists (retail and trade) aren't actually in anyones shop or house, they are just hypothetical lists for a country of origin and are used just to get your attention. You make the order and then they try and get them in, which most of the time doesn't happen as it was all just words.....!


Thats because no one is stupid enough to have one sitting in there living room and publicly advertise it.
I just cant see how someone ca claim to be in the know and cant find one, i could think of a handful of people that could get you one, in fact if they where really in the know you can get any animal you want the jut simply are not looking in the right place!
Who in the right mind would offer a animal of such cost to anyone.
if any one is interested ill show you a picture of one in the shop with a friend holding it if you pm your email, they are easy to get hold of, but like i said, no one got the money.


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## Jonathan4

Chris Newman said:


> Really, well I am sure you know best…….!!


so you going to say people don't smuggle people for sale and there have not been people smuggled into the UK from Asia and Africa or tons of cocaine imported in one go, if so then i wouldnt wast my time continuing the conversation and if you agree that people and tons of drugs have been imported are do you really believe you cant get a monitor in undetected. Airport security is really not that grate, i know of people putting tigers in there suit case.

If i could get permission in the uk to have one imported i could get a suppler and it would land with in three weeks but then again who is going to pay £20-£35k for a monitor i have albino C.siamensis i have been offering for a year in the uk and not one person is seriously going to shed out that kind of money for one, there i just not a market for that kind of private collection in the UK.


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## goodwin1234

ImBatman said:


> I think things like this should 100% be for zoos





Ddp said:


> Most definitely should only be for zoos.


Why?

Are zoo keepers super human? Do they possess some kind of mythical powers that us mere mortals don't have?


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## jacko1

I could deffinatley see the attraction in owning one and as far as housing goes yes they are real large but if you can keep an Asian water a croc or a nile then double what that takes and this would be what is needed as said in the wild these animals move distance for food not cos they want to if some one could get one for say 10k with cities paperwork and proof of parents proven with dna I would honestly buy one 

id spend a couple month getting enclosure built but secure the animal first then have it brought over any thing can be done with enough thought knowledge and money and I have heard of them being offered for sale in Europe now as far as I know the limiting factor is the problem with being allowed to sell and purchase them due to the owner ship of all comodoes by the royal family of komodo island


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## varanus87

goodwin1234 said:


> Why?
> 
> Are zoo keepers super human? Do they possess some kind of mythical powers that us mere mortals don't have?


In short .... Yep ....


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## Jonathan4

jacko1 said:


> I could deffinatley see the attraction in owning one and as far as housing goes yes they are real large but if you can keep an Asian water a croc or a nile then double what that takes and this would be what is needed as said in the wild these animals move distance for food not cos they want to if some one could get one for say 10k with cities paperwork and proof of parents proven with dna I would honestly buy one


not going to happen, cost more than £10k with out all the paper work would cost 3-4 times that with paperwork if it could be done, if you where a accredited zoo then you would have somewhere to start.

Mind you if you could get CITES for it, which you cant, they are Apex l, the only way you can legally export Apex l listed items are, for scientific study or if the animal is bred in captivity in the 100s-1000s with 3+ gen prof in which the 3 gen+ animal can be imported as apex ll and that is quite technical and takes heeps of time, no one would do it for £10k.


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## varanus87

Jonathan4 said:


> not going to happen, cost more than £10k with out all the paper work would cost 3-4 times that with paperwork if it could be done, if you where a accredited zoo then you would have somewhere to start.
> 
> Mind you if you could get CITES for it, which you cant, they are Apex l, the only way you can legally export Apex l listed items are, for scientific study or if the animal is bred in captivity in the 100s-1000s with 3+ gen prof in which the 3 gen+ animal can be imported as apex ll and that is quite technical and takes heeps of time, no one would do it for £10k.


All well and good but wot if u sneak one out of the back door of a zoo that is already in the country ...:whistling2:


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## Jonathan4

varanus87 said:


> All well and good but wot if u sneak one out of the back door of a zoo that is already in the country ...:whistling2:


Thins like that happen all the time, a common one is where the eggs are deemed infertile and disposed in someones back pack. Like i say these thins appear all the time, jut you are not going to get the kind of paperwork that was mentioned.


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## ian14

Jonathan4 said:


> not going to happen, cost more than £10k with out all the paper work would cost 3-4 times that with paperwork if it could be done, if you where a accredited zoo then you would have somewhere to start.
> 
> Mind you if you could get CITES for it, which you cant, they are Apex l, the only way you can legally export Apex l listed items are, for scientific study or if the animal is bred in captivity in the 100s-1000s with 3+ gen prof in which the 3 gen+ animal can be imported as apex ll and that is quite technical and takes heeps of time, no one would do it for £10k.


Just because an animal is Appendix I/Annex A, does not mean that you can't get relevant documents. If, for example, the animal was in Europe then the seller would simply need to have a valid Article 10. Provided the animal is captive bred then there would be no reason for an A10 not to be issued. I don't think you completely understand CITES. There is no need for an animal to be 3rd generation either. CITES is to do with sustainable trade.


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## miss_ferret

varanus87 said:


> All well and good but wot if u sneak one out of the back door of a zoo that is already in the country ...:whistling2:


'whats that officer, you want to know what it is? well its a bearded dragon. yes, yes they do get quite big. no, it loves next doors dog, look its kissing it. the dogs just not moving because its so happy'


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## Jonathan4

ian14 said:


> Just because an animal is Appendix I/Annex A, does not mean that you can't get relevant documents. If, for example, the animal was in Europe then the seller would simply need to have a valid Article 10. Provided the animal is captive bred then there would be no reason for an A10 not to be issued. I don't think you completely understand CITES. There is no need for an animal to be 3rd generation either. CITES is to do with sustainable trade.


yes that is if exported from the EU, but in most cases i would think it would be more applicable to assume it would be coming from Asia i am not aware of anyone being ranted export from Asia of apex l animals jut with a article 10 and first gen cb, otherwise i would have a no problem importin jut about anything from Asia under Apex l as there just about anything i can get from Asia origin 1st gen captive bred. 2nd to that i have never been successful on submitting for export of a animal out of Asia as 1st gen (rightly so) as it could have been conceived in the wild, even if CITES where to grant it i cant think of any country that would allow animals on apex l to be exported 1t gen on local wildlife protection laws.


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## ian14

Jonathan4 said:


> yes that is if exported from the EU, but in most cases i would think it would be more applicable to assume it would be coming from Asia i am not aware of anyone being ranted export from Asia of apex l animals jut with a article 10 and first gen cb, otherwise i would have a no problem importin jut about anything from Asia under Apex l as there just about anything i can get from Asia origin 1st gen captive bred. 2nd to that i have never been successful on submitting for export of a animal out of Asia as 1st gen (rightly so) as it could have been conceived in the wild, even if CITES where to grant it i cant think of any country that would allow animals on apex l to be exported 1t gen on local wildlife protection laws.


I still don't think you grasp CITES - an Article 10 is the document that is issued within the EU to allow commercial use of an Annex A species - there is NOTHING in the EU legislation that states it must be captive bred. The way it works is this - I find someone, lets say from Asia, with komodo's available. Doesnt have to be a komodo, any Annex A animal (and as the UK is within the EU then it would be under the EU rules so Annexes, not Appendices). The UK administrative body for CITES, which is DEFRA, have to assess the impact of trade involving that species. So, they look to see if the trade proposed would be of detriment to the wild population. Providing there is a negative detriment finding then they would allow the import. The exporting country's equivalent would also need to do the same, to allow the export. And that is about it. 
This "x generation" thing is nonsense as there is nothing relating to this within CITES - if you look at Annex A species, there are annual quotas permitted for trade INCLUDING parts and derivatives. To reiterate, CITES, the Convention on Trade in Endangered Species, is NOT a wildlife protection law, it is an international treaty to allow SUSTAINABLE trade. This does not mean it is there to STOP trade, but to ensure that trade can take place in a sustainable fashion that does not have a negative impact on the wild populations.


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## Jonathan4

ian14 said:


> I still don't think you grasp CITES - an Article 10 is the document that is issued within the EU to allow commercial use of an Annex A species - there is NOTHING in the EU legislation that states it must be captive bred. The way it works is this - I find someone, lets say from Asia, with komodo's available. Doesnt have to be a komodo, any Annex A animal (and as the UK is within the EU then it would be under the EU rules so Annexes, not Appendices). The UK administrative body for CITES, which is DEFRA, have to assess the impact of trade involving that species. So, they look to see if the trade proposed would be of detriment to the wild population. Providing there is a negative detriment finding then they would allow the import. The exporting country's equivalent would also need to do the same, to allow the export. And that is about it.
> This "x generation" thing is nonsense as there is nothing relating to this within CITES - if you look at Annex A species, there are annual quotas permitted for trade INCLUDING parts and derivatives. To reiterate, CITES, the Convention on Trade in Endangered Species, is NOT a wildlife protection law, it is an international treaty to allow SUSTAINABLE trade. This does not mean it is there to STOP trade, but to ensure that trade can take place in a sustainable fashion that does not have a negative impact on the wild populations.


I can only speak from personal experience, so you are probably right, you obviously have a superior grasp of the rules and legislation, i should hire you to arrange my imports and exports.


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## mariusz

cfg123 said:


> I've heard of people who claim they got a few "Asian water monitors". They can get quite big when fully grown, but nowhere near as big as a komodo, and somewhat less aggressive.
> 
> In any case, if it is so difficult to obtain and own a komodo, then the very question of owning one becomes a moot point, unless you move to a different jurisdiction.


I keep 4 asian water monitors and believe me, they do get that big


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## sherburt

mariusz said:


> I keep 4 asian water monitors and believe me, they do get that big



Have you got any pics of your waters?

I have a male Sumatran Water Monitor just over 2 years old at 4.5ft.

Had him since he was a month old.

Plus the one in my avatar is fairly big lol


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## Liam Yule

None of YOU...

None of US...

Will ever own a komodo. So...yeah...


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## SiUK

Liam Yule said:


> None of YOU...
> 
> None of US...
> 
> Will ever own a komodo. So...yeah...


for 20,000 Euros you could


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## Liam Yule

Hahaha I knew someone would reply with some sort of comment


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## cavan

like has been said it wouldn't be impossible to properly care for a komodo if people had the funds and space/time. the first hurdle would be to actually fiinding one available then being able to afford it, plus the hatchlings look very similar to other monitor hatchlings so someone who wasn't as knowledgable as others could possibly sold a hatchling water monitor or something similar as a dragon


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## SiUK

There was a single male for sale the other day not in the UK but in Europe thats where my price came from, I have never seen them for sale before anywhere personally.


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## colinm

Its amazing what you can buy on the internet. I do think that the price will deter most people though.


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## KingElf

Liam Yule said:


> None of YOU...
> 
> None of US...
> 
> Will ever own a komodo. So...yeah...


I do...


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## sherburt

KingElf said:


> I do...
> image


lol. That's a nice piece of wood. :2thumb:


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## welshMorphology

It certainly isn't common knowledge, but, simply, yes. YES we do.


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## KingElf

sherburt said:


> lol. That's a nice piece of wood. :2thumb:


that's not a piece of wood , hes real and his name is berty von hausen the 3rd :whistling2:


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## cavan

nice carving non the less


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## KingElf

:lol2:


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## longqi

Liam Yule said:


> None of YOU...
> 
> None of US...
> 
> Will ever own a komodo. So...yeah...


Enough of an answer????
This is in Bali but not at the zoo


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## cavan

longqi said:


> Enough of an answer????
> This is in Bali but not at the zoo
> 
> image


beast


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## varanus87

longqi said:


> Enough of an answer????
> This is in Bali but not at the zoo
> 
> image


Something doesn't look right about that komodo .....:whistling2:


Bout as close as ull get over here in the uk


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## longqi

varanus87 said:


> Something doesn't look right about that komodo .....:whistling2:
> 
> 
> Bout as close as ull get over here in the uk
> image
> 
> 
> image



very nice









just big lizards with similar attitude


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## cavan

varanus87 said:


> Something doesn't look right about that komodo .....:whistling2:
> 
> 
> Bout as close as ull get over here in the uk
> [URL=http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p516/varanus1987/KOMODOS.jpg]image[/URL]
> 
> 
> [URL=http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p516/varanus1987/KOMODO.jpg]image[/URL]


whos gonna draw the short straw to trim its nails


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## varanus87

longqi said:


> very nice


In your previous pic is that a rescue centre ?


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## longqi

No
its not at a rescue centre

but about 4 years ago we were offered a 9ft komodo for $100
soooo tempted
100% illegal
but still so tempted


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## cavan

longqi said:


> No
> its not at a rescue centre
> 
> but about 4 years ago we were offered a 9ft komodo for $100
> soooo tempted
> 100% illegal
> but still so tempted


whats the penalty for getting caught with a komodo over there?


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## longqi

cavan said:


> whats the penalty for getting caught with a komodo over there?


That all depends on who you are related to

Also depends on 
how much money you have
who found out and pressed charges
how public the arrest was
how many times you apologised publicly

So you get a written caution
Or you could get 14years in a holiday camp


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## cavan

longqi said:


> That all depends on who you are related to
> 
> Also depends on
> how much money you have
> who found out and pressed charges
> how public the arrest was
> how many times you apologised publicly
> 
> So you get a written caution
> Or you could get 14years in a holiday camp


not really worth the 100 dollars then :lol2:


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## longqi

cavan said:


> not really worth the 100 dollars then :lol2:


Then it was a bit risky
But if we 'found' one now we could probably apply to look after it

We have successfully looked after other protected species before
So that would help I think


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## cavan

longqi said:


> Then it was a bit risky
> But if we 'found' one now we could probably apply to look after it
> 
> We have successfully looked after other protected species before
> So that would help I think


so you'd just have to say it was a rescue then


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## KingElf

great pics longqi

I cant see why a lot of people think komodos would rip out your spleen and skin you alive and leave you looking like a victim of pinhead as soon as they look at you! 
At the end of the day there just very big lizards  but I can see they deserve respect like any creature.
I cant see the problem why they shouldn't be kept in captivity , id be more comfortable keeping one of these than a taipan etc 

also any people who think komodos shouldn't be kept in captivity at all shouldn't keep any animal at all as a pet imo...


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## Malagasy

Why is everyone saying that you need to have acres of land to own a komodo dragon..? Every zoo i have been to that keeps them only has an enclosure that is roughly the size of my downstairs area... They dont seem to move much aswell. Im no expert but i dont think you need that much room to keep them they arent polar bears.


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## varanus87

KingElf said:


> great pics longqi
> 
> I cant see why a lot of people think komodos would rip out your spleen and skin you alive and leave you looking like a victim of pinhead as soon as they look at you!
> At the end of the day there just very big lizards  but I can see they deserve respect like any creature.
> I cant see the problem why they shouldn't be kept in captivity , id be more comfortable keeping one of these than a taipan etc
> 
> also any people who think komodos shouldn't be kept in captivity at all shouldn't keep any animal at all as a pet imo...


I can a sure u they def have their moments .... Not any old big lizard they have a capability to KILL and they have before even in captivity...


Malagasy said:


> Why is everyone saying that you need to have acres of land to own a komodo dragon..? Every zoo i have been to that keeps them only has an enclosure that is roughly the size of my downstairs area... They dont seem to move much aswell. Im no expert but i dont think you need that much room to keep them they arent polar bears.


They need more room than u would think more than captivity can give same for most varanids


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## cavan

Malagasy said:


> Why is everyone saying that you need to have acres of land to own a komodo dragon..? Every zoo i have been to that keeps them only has an enclosure that is roughly the size of my downstairs area... They dont seem to move much aswell. Im no expert but i dont think you need that much room to keep them they arent polar bears.


barcelona zoo have got an amazing setup for them


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## matt83

This has been an interesting thread. 
I will just ad that anyone who thinks Komodo's are not available on the black market is completely wrong. They have sold for £15-20,000 in the past, but to get one you'd really need to be "in the know" and be up to your arse in endangered wildlife smuggling. Just do a little bit of digging and you'll find out all you need to know. Ill give you a clue to start you off - he lives in Penang!
: victory:


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## Jabba the mentor

matt83 said:


> This has been an interesting thread.
> I will just ad that anyone who thinks Komodo's are not available on the black market is completely wrong. They have sold for £15-20,000 in the past, but to get one you'd really need to be "in the know" and be up to your arse in endangered wildlife smuggling. Just do a little bit of digging and you'll find out all you need to know. Ill give you a clue to start you off - he lives in Penang!
> : victory:


He is a bit fussy who he talks to these days


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## matt83

I bet he is! Prison and a lot of attention has come his way over the last few years. For many wildlife conservationists he is public enemy number one! I met him many years ago while I was wandering around a Bangkok animal market. A very charming man .. but still the devil in carnet as far as wildlife is concerned. : victory:


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## KingElf

sully :whistling2:


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## Jabba the mentor

KingElf said:


> sully :whistling2:


If only most of us lost contact with him years ago. If you know different tell him the hobby needs him back to get something other than royals


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## aardvark28

Not actually correct in regard to needing a zoo licence - you categorically do not need one for owning Konodo Dragons (or any other species to be kept privately). They are not on the DWAA. What is necessary is to have correct documentation of origin since this species is on CITES I (Annex A within the EU) and this would ordinarily come directly from the Indonesian Government (highly unlikely in the case of private individuals) or from an institutional establishment that has bred them successfully.


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## longqi

aardvark28 said:


> Not actually correct in regard to needing a zoo licence - you categorically do not need one for owning Konodo Dragons (or any other species to be kept privately). They are not on the DWAA. What is necessary is to have correct documentation of origin since this species is on CITES I (Annex A within the EU) and this would ordinarily come directly from the Indonesian Government (highly unlikely in the case of private individuals) or from an institutional establishment that has bred them successfully.


Even paper work from a breeding facility is of no legal use
All komodos, including all offspring, remain the property of the Indonesian government

Only legal way is with Indonesian government approval


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## mariusz

longqi said:


> Even paper work from a breeding facility is of no legal use
> All komodos, including all offspring, remain the property of the Indonesian government
> 
> Only legal way is with Indonesian government approval



I'm not sure this is 100% accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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