# Rspca



## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

Hi,

Sorry if this is a re-post but it may be interesting for people to read/debate.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232714755138&mode=prd

What are your thoughts on this?


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

haven't read it, all i know is i HATE the RSPCA....

EDIT:- just opened the link, OMG what a bunch of lying, know nothing, pathetic c:censor:s


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## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

I agree with some things they are saying I.E bad husbandry BUT there are a lot of people who are very capable of keeping these animals.


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## Kuja (Dec 14, 2011)

> Malnutrition is found in up to 15 per cent of pet reptile


i stopped reading after they didn't state how many wild animals die of Malnutrition.

yeah some people don't do good for their reptiles, but its the same for all animals lol you get :censor:heads anyway.


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## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

Kuja said:


> i stopped reading after they didn't state how many wild animals die of Malnutrition.
> 
> yeah some people don't do good for their reptiles, but its the same for all animals lol you get :censor:heads anyway.


Totally agree.


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

Kuja said:


> i stopped reading after they didn't state how many wild animals die of Malnutrition.
> 
> yeah some people don't do good for their reptiles, but its the same for all animals lol you get :censor:heads anyway.


init, what about all the dogs and cats that are mistreated and abandoned??
there's alot more of those than reptiles!! 
its not that reptiles do bad in captivity, its the people looking after the animals that do bad.. tossers


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Big_Rich said:


> I agree with some things they are saying I.E bad husbandry BUT there are a lot of people who are very capable of keeping these animals.


Yet some of these capable keepers still breed enigmas and other problem morphs, its not just the keeping side its the morals and ethics that also brings us into conflict!

As for the report that started this thread its very well known and been discredited by every goverment and agency they tryed to push it on..


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## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

blood and guts said:


> Yet some of these capable keepers still breed enigmas and other problem morphs, its not just the keeping side its the morals and ethics that also brings us into conflict!
> 
> *As for the report that started this thread its very well known and been discredited by every goverment and agency they tryed to push it on*..


Good.

MODS: if this has been covered before please feel free to delete the thread.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

i wouldent delete it, this was some time back and a lot of newer keepers just dont relise the sort of stuff we where fighting so a little history lesson ever now and again is a good thing and the fact the rspca still have links to the report and antis quoting it we should not forget its there..


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## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

Ok, so how old is the report?

I just got the link from my other half and pressumed it was fairly new:blush:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

> Malnutrition is found in up to 15 per cent of pet reptile



i like figures, 'up to' is anything between 0% and 15%, especially as they've probably only had to deal with about 0.4% of reptiles keepers in the UK. So their 15% can only be taken from the cases they've had to deal with.


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## spottymint (Oct 3, 2010)

If my experience of the RSPCA is anything to go by, it will take them at least a week to ID the lizard, before they even bigin to look into the right way to keep it.

Maybe the guy at Patcham has a clue, but how many inspecters know didly squat ?

Someone related to me has given to the RSPCA for over 40 years, due to ill health, they needed to rehome thier parrot, guess who wouldn't help ?


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm sick of the "I hate the RSPCA" posts. They do an amazing job at tackling people who mistreat their animals. They also realise that exotic pets are becoming just as popular as dogs and cats and are retraining officers to become more knowledgable. At the end of the day, if you are providing well for your herp then you have nothing to worry about. Those horror stories are few and far between considering the amount of people involved in our hobby. All we hear is the bad reports of them, and hardly any of the good. Why hate the RSPCA. They do far more good than harm. How can you hate a society devoted to helping animals in need? Their intentions, and the majority of their work helps neglected animals. Think of the bigger picture and not just our sector of the industry/hobby. Any frustration on our (amateur herpetologists)part should be vented towards re-education, not hostility towards them. Why not join your local or national herp society and write them a letter inviting them to see how you are raising information on a particular species, or supporting a captive breeding program. Hell, crested geckos were thought to be extinct 15 years ago, now look. Just think what you can do before you judge a society that in the most part does good for a lot of animals in need.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Barlow said:


> I'm sick of the "I hate the RSPCA" posts. They do an amazing job at tackling people who mistreat their animals. They also realise that exotic pets are becoming just as popular as dogs and cats and are retraining officers to become more knowledgable. At the end of the day, if you are providing well for your herp then you have nothing to worry about. Those horror stories are few and far between considering the amount of people involved in our hobby. All we hear is the bad reports of them, and hardly any of the good. Why hate the RSPCA. They do far more good than harm. How can you hate a society devoted to helping animals in need? Their intentions, and the majority of their work helps neglected animals. Think of the bigger picture and not just our sector of the industry/hobby. Any frustration on our (amateur herpetologists)part should be vented towards re-education, not hostility towards them. Why not join your local or national herp society and write them a letter inviting them to see how you are raising information on a particular species, or supporting a captive breeding program. Hell, crested geckos were thought to be extinct 15 years ago, now look. Just think what you can do before you judge a society that in the most part does good for a lot of animals in need.


May i suggest a little bit more reserch into the rspca, start at the rulling council and its links to animal rights and the vast sums wasted on reports like this one that have little fact and lots of lies? How about serching for info on the mou that was planned between the rspca and the herp keeping world via the fbh that the rspca turned down last minute! or the case of the copper who humainly put a cat out of its missery after being hit by a car because the rspca wouldent come out but then spent tens of thousends trying to prosucute him! how about that mental women on the news a few years ago with all those cats and dogs, hmmm i wonder where she got them from? how about look at there vast sums of money and how little goes to front line welfare compared to animal rights type politcal stuff! 

Just a few things in a vast mountain of stuff on the rspca!


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## Hashcake (Nov 23, 2011)

Barlow said:


> I'm sick of the "I hate the RSPCA" posts. They do an amazing job at tackling people who mistreat their animals. They also realise that exotic pets are becoming just as popular as dogs and cats and are retraining officers to become more knowledgable. At the end of the day, if you are providing well for your herp then you have nothing to worry about. Those horror stories are few and far between considering the amount of people involved in our hobby. All we hear is the bad reports of them, and hardly any of the good. Why hate the RSPCA. They do far more good than harm. How can you hate a society devoted to helping animals in need? Their intentions, and the majority of their work helps neglected animals. Think of the bigger picture and not just our sector of the industry/hobby. Any frustration on our (amateur herpetologists)part should be vented towards re-education, not hostility towards them. Why not join your local or national herp society and write them a letter inviting them to see how you are raising information on a particular species, or supporting a captive breeding program. Hell, crested geckos were thought to be extinct 15 years ago, now look. Just think what you can do before you judge a society that in the most part does good for a lot of animals in need.



I wouldn't argue about the overall work they do as they do save many animals and prosecute lots of idiots.
However, there are aspects about the RSPCA that have been raised before such as directors pay levels.


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## sazzle (Jun 3, 2008)

The RSPCA has designated people in each area to take on reptiles, my cousin for example is given them within hours of the RSPCA getting them. I've also had a couple from them as my cousin isn't as knowledgable with the lizards as she is the snakes. 

Don't tar them all with the same brush x


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## Barlow (Sep 23, 2010)

blood and guts said:


> May i suggest a little bit more reserch into the rspca, start at the rulling council and its links to animal rights and the vast sums wasted on reports like this one that have little fact and lots of lies? How about serching for info on the mou that was planned between the rspca and the herp keeping world via the fbh that the rspca turned down last minute! or the case of the copper who humainly put a cat out of its missery after being hit by a car because the rspca wouldent come out but then spent tens of thousends trying to prosucute him! how about that mental women on the news a few years ago with all those cats and dogs, hmmm i wonder where she got them from? how about look at there vast sums of money and how little goes to front line welfare compared to animal rights type politcal stuff!
> 
> Just a few things in a vast mountain of stuff on the rspca!


So that outweighs all the good stuff they have done. I reckon if we were to list all the good stuff then this forum would crash! Take things into perspective and vent your enthusiasm into change and education.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Barlow said:


> So that outweighs all the good stuff they have done. I reckon if we were to list all the good stuff then this forum would crash! Take things into perspective and vent your enthusiasm into change and education.


Some of us have tryed working with the rspca many times over the years, infact at one point a local reptile group did a lot of work for them befor they turned anti reptile! 

Lets talk about all the good then, many animals perticuly wildlife killed in the van by bolt guns with no secondry form of death as should be practiced. One result was two deer bolted and left at road side to be collected got up and caused a car crash!

While where talking wildlife they closed the majority of there wildlife rescue centres, claiming lack of funds (go look at there accounts) and now dump a lot of stuff that isent killed on site on local private resuces with zero help money wise! They also released a report claiming wildlife going through the resuces has no hope of going back to the wild, sad thing is they had many more reports prior to this claiming a high sucsess rate for wildlife releases! smell a rat there? you should!

Freedom food farms, now what a great idea that was! shame some freedom food farms are worse then non freedom food ones!

We dislike the rspca with very good reason, they are not the law, they are not even close to being experts in there feilds and they refuse a lot of help and training yet feel they can tell us how to keep and act above the law!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Barlow said:


> So that outweighs all the good stuff they have done. I reckon if we were to list all the good stuff then this forum would crash!


you sound deluded, or an employee.


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## blood and guts (May 30, 2007)

Barlow said:


> So that outweighs all the good stuff they have done. I reckon if we were to list all the good stuff then this forum would crash! Take things into perspective and vent your enthusiasm into change and education.


So your saying we should forgive all the bad? all the wasted millions of pounds from granny bashing should be forgot about? all those animals they killed and not given a chance should just go unnoticed?

as meko just said are you staff?


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

You know donated alot of our own to the RSPCA years ago and had an RSPCA pot on our shop and had other stuff to raise money for them.
Really wish we had known then.

I just wish they would butt out of things they don't understand, there was however a few interesting points raised.

The RSPCA remind me of a little old woman years ago who was walking her dog behind me walking home.... I was talking to my GF basicly splitting up with her.... and this little old woman behind me kept going oooo eee I can't beleive he said that etc and then I said something like ..... I just don't love you.... and this woman said (she was by herself) there was no need for that! 

I just spun round (and I am not a nasty person or anything but told her to SOD right off and mind her own business) (listening in on my phonecall and interefearing completely in stuff she didn't understand.... 

A simiarity here, they just walk along stalk and talk complete crap about things they don't understand.

I have read more than one case of the RSPCA killing animals while they have been in there care? because their "inspectors" couldn't tell the difference between A and B.... and kept them in the wrong conditions? I wonder why they don't use their mistakes as examples, no of course not because they are the savers and heros of animals aren't they and wouldn't want that put against them.
I would much rather put my money into a much smaller charity or donate to a rescue who really does rescue!

Has anyone shown this to chris newman? although he probibly already knows.


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## Bruceyyy (May 9, 2010)

Their list of references is complete bollocks too, only one is cited anywhere near correctly and the rest are a name and a date, even using JSTOR's or Web of Knowledge's advanced search settings, I am struggling to find the correct papers, and when I do, they are often old, out dated papers from crap journals with very little science!


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## Dan Trafford (Mar 10, 2011)

How would they explain captive bred reps living up to 3 times longer than they do in the wild? A perversian of nature?


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## Big_Rich (Aug 11, 2011)

Sorry for putting this in the wrong section:blush:


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Barlow said:


> I'm sick of the "I hate the RSPCA" posts. They do an amazing job at tackling people who mistreat their animals. They also realise that exotic pets are becoming just as popular as dogs and cats and are retraining officers to become more knowledgable. At the end of the day, if you are providing well for your herp then you have nothing to worry about. Those horror stories are few and far between considering the amount of people involved in our hobby. All we hear is the bad reports of them, and hardly any of the good. Why hate the RSPCA. They do far more good than harm. How can you hate a society devoted to helping animals in need? Their intentions, and the majority of their work helps neglected animals. Think of the bigger picture and not just our sector of the industry/hobby. Any frustration on our (amateur herpetologists)part should be vented towards re-education, not hostility towards them. Why not join your local or national herp society and write them a letter inviting them to see how you are raising information on a particular species, or supporting a captive breeding program. Hell, crested geckos were thought to be extinct 15 years ago, now look. Just think what you can do before you judge a society that in the most part does good for a lot of animals in need.


Perhaps you could enlighten us all with what good work the RSPCA actually do! In my twenty year experience I have to say that my finding are completely contradictory to your views, in my view the direct hands on welfare work with animals has declined year on year. The RSPCA are far more likely to expend resources on political campaigns and prosecutions than they are actually caring for animals. 

It occurs to me that you may not actually be aware of the RSPCA policies? Have your read their policy document? Here are just a few RSPCA policies:

The RSPCA are opposed to the sale of animals in pet shops.
The RSPCA are opposed to the trade in wild caught animals.
The RSPCA are opposed to the trade in captive bred wild animals. [bang goes your crested gecko]
The RSPCA are opposes to animals in school, including earthworms! 

And so the list goers on. Now lets look at what they actually do, unfortunately after I first raised this they completely changed they way they statistics were collated in with Annual Review so direct comparisons became impossible – something to hide perhaps?

*RSPCA Statistics - 2000 compared to 2005 *

Phone calls received – down 36.6%
Complaints investigated – down 12.5%
Inspections – down 95.6%
Animal collections – down 23.1%
Homes found – down 27.5%
Treatments – down 11.7%

*Humane destructions – up 85.7% [slaughter of healthy animals]*
*Income – up 53.1%*

The RSPCA have never denied any of this, as I said unfortunately due to the change of the way they record their data from 2006 direct comparisons are no longer possible but I have know doubts the trend for decline in welfare of animals has continued to decline.

So what is the good work they do?


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

also what about the 65,000 dogs they put down a year out of the 130,000 they get "rescue", that's half, and it might even well of gone up knowing them, most of these dogs put down are also puppies from Ireland there importing, not only do they contradict them selves buy importing animals from Ireland, they just spew out nothing but lies and harassment!

no good work comes from the RSPCA full stop.......


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

sn8ks4life said:


> also what about the 65,000 dogs they put down a year out of the 130,000 they get "rescue", that's half, and it might even well of gone up knowing them, ..



they'll be covered in the 85.7% of destructions Chris mentioned.


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

Meko said:


> they'll be covered in the 85.7% of destructions Chris mentioned.


true, i just thought that barlow or whatever his name is might wanna see those statistics from last year as there a bit savage tbh lol.. cant believe there's still people out there that believe they do good work:bash:


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## BSL (Jan 19, 2011)

sn8ks4life said:


> init, what about all the dogs and cats that are mistreated and abandoned??
> there's alot more of those than reptiles!!
> its not that reptiles do bad in captivity, its the people looking after the animals that do bad.. tossers


i agree with you if you have done your home work then there should be no problems,
there are more cats and dogs abandoned every day than reptiles


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## spottymint (Oct 3, 2010)

Please read & update with what they have done to rescue the 16 starving shire horses ?

A vet with a tender heart and the saving of a skeletal, helpless horse called Hope | Mail Online


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## connor 1213 (Apr 6, 2009)

RSPCA dislikes us (Reptile Keepers)
We dislike RSPCA...

I suspect they will mess up soon enough and other animal keepers (dogs, cats ect) will relise that there is stuff going wrong with the RSPCA

(My Views)


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## tarantulabarn (Apr 21, 2005)

Chris Newman said:


> Perhaps you could enlighten us all with what good work the RSPCA actually do!
> 
> C'mon Chris, we all know how good they are...... AT RAISING MONEY
> 
> Has anyone looked at their latest accounts, for the 4 different companies registered with companies house, one of these is actually an investment compant as well


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