# Come on dart keepers...give me some ideas!!!



## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Any suggestions of good small (dartlike or mantella type) frogs that are diurnal by the way would be welcomed) Not looking to buy till probably early summer but would like to start thinking about and pricing the venture...Would like a set up like this one...










I love how he used the wood to form a stream but dont know what pump he used in such shallow water...and it looks like the water would have to be changed alot to keep it clean, any ideas? Know any of the plants or wood names he has used....come on....you know you wanna help!!!:mf_dribble:


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## exoticsandtropics (Mar 11, 2007)

you could use an external filter. they have a tube that will be able to get that small amount of water going around


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm in the same position! Have decided on leucs just working out how to set up a nice terrarium. Have a few ideas..

Amphibiancare.com >> Waterfalls and Dripwalls

Great site on how to set up waterfalls.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

im re-doing my dart frog viv within the next two weeks, ill be using an external filter and using a stream similar to that - ill take step by step pics and put them on here for you : victory:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

That would be great. I was looking at the external pumps after it was suggested and they look simple enough....never used the layered technique for a viv yet so step by step would be nice. 

Any suggestions of frogs I should be looking at...diurnal, colourful, active, (for kids) 

Also, does anyone recognise any of the plants used???


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## dartfrogs (Jan 31, 2009)

*Hi Hun check out this site*

[/quote]

Yeap ... Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper everything amphibian , they have everything you need for set ups like this.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah, thanks. I know Dartfrogs site well. All of the plants, moss, sealant, cork bark, and cork panels came from there...not much use if you dont know what you are buying though...

Know they are clay beads at the bottom...recognise the moss, and pothos vine...not sure about the wood...driftwood? 

I am more interested in the frogs (and how to set up an external pump which I have been offered help with). I do not want to make the wrong decision and until I narrow them down there are too many to research properly....: victory:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

there are a few ideal frogs, if your looking for darts the most important part is the setup - get it 110% perfect and run it for a month before adding the froggies, 

as for the frogs themselves id recommend something like:

Dendrobates Leucomelas
http://www.frognet.org/albums/anthonyM-Leucomelas/Leuc_1.jpg

Dendrobates azureus
http://www.pumilio.com/images/pictures/azureus2.jpg


or some of the tinctorious
http://www.poison-frogs.nl/images/tinctorius6.jpg


these are all pretty hardy as darts go, and are all pretty active during the day : victory:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks Chondro...that is very helpful. I assume the set up as per picture would be ideal? I sure hope so! Will definatly run the tank, as I did the current one for 4-6 weeks checking temp, humidity, and water quality. I will let the kids choose from the frogs you suggested...

Would a long exo terra be good or just a normal tank with screen lid...?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

ilovetoads2 said:


> Thanks Chondro...that is very helpful. I assume the set up as per picture would be ideal? I sure hope so! Will definatly run the tank, as I did the current one for 4-6 weeks checking temp, humidity, and water quality. I will let the kids choose from the frogs you suggested...
> 
> Would a long exo terra be good or just a normal tank with screen lid...?


 
Hi hun, ill make the setup in stages and take a pic at each one for ya - i should be starting it on tuesday as i get a day off then (hurrah!) 

depending on the species, an exo terra 60 x 45 x 60 would be ideal for 4 - 6 frogs so long as you have hiding spaces etc for all of them. (this is the size viv ill be re-doing!) ill put a list of what ive used and the cost of everything, i got a few bargains but its still cost me a small fortune (again) :shock:

Although it does not have to be expensive - heres a thread i did a while back of a very basic setup that didnt cost much at all and is still pretty while fulfilling all their requirements! http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/189315-how-build-dart-frog-viv.html


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

The cost is not all that important..I dont want to cut corners. The children decided on the frog that looked like a cross between the other two...they were undecided and arguing one for yellow, one for blue...the other too young to care...and then I showed them that pic. Winner!

I already have a few new things in the house here that I can use. I have a brick of eco earth, aquarium stones, peat plates, screening, wood, a vine (huge vine!) ect. As you may know I have to re do my RETF tank and this is my priority...but I am going to use an external pump with this so your step by step will come in very handy!!!OH!! and I found the perfect peice of wood for my stream!!!

Please send me pm when you put your thread on so I dont miss it...I will keep lookng. thanks a bunch!


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

There are several samll internal pumps on the market- will link when remember the name as all mine are buried in well established tanks.

Lots of the bits you can get from normal garden centres, and loads of places you can get better quality plants cheaper than dartfrog.

The hydroleca is the clay balls, cheap from all garden centres / diy places.

It looks like pillow moss in the tank- looks good, but often doesnt last. If you have patience, use spikey, and xmas moss. Will look better , last longer, and not loaded with slugs!

Exoterras work ok, but few mods needed for dart frogs- glass on roof to increase humidity, and need to sort all of lid, and mess front vent otherwise flies will get out. Ofter depending on how well your exo is built, there will also be gaps at the egdes and middle of the front door.

For the price, you can get a custom made dart tank anyway.
- Go on dendroworld forum, search for Darryl, and tell him Chris sent you. Made some of my tank and they're top quality.


Finally- a picture with moss! This is my Leuc viv.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

oooohhhh ME DOES LIKES WHAT ME SEES! Christmas moss, right, I will look into that. I do know about the internal pumps a bit and do have some but I just dont want to try and hide it. I think external will be the way I will look into this time although I have another tank to do before I start on the darts idea. I always take a cosiderable amount of time looking into the animal and learn as much as I can before I start...but am glad the viv I liked the look of would be suitable. I have not had a chance to start research but I do know that UV does not penetrate glass, so I assume I am looking for something with some screen and some glass, or covering the screen with perspex for humidity...? 

It was the heating and lighting that took me the longest to understand with my first set up but my husband said it was only because I was trying to make it harder than it was....doesnt sound like me!:blush:

I will keep that guy in mind for the vivs when I know what I am looking for. Exo terras are just so nice to look at! But that is not important...

Thanks so much for your reply...now back to trying to rip out expanding foam :bash:


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

ilovetoads2 said:


> Exo terras are just so nice to look at! But that is not important...


Not feeling the love for them myself, but each to own. 

Few good dart guys in Scotland too.

Frogs dont need UV- get all goodness from dusted food. If you have decent grow tubes the plants will be fine too.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm like you - i simply like the look of the exo terras!

Heres how i sorted out the humidity problem, put an exo terra hood on the back section (this allows you to get some bulbs to provide UV for the plants) and over the front two pieces of mesh ive put two pieces of vinyl (get it free from any carpet store, just ask for a cut off or even a sample - i robbed mine from my dads workplace)

ive not once had a problem with humidity in my exo terra : victory: the only think i will say is you MUST (i cant say that enough - MUST) silicone up the holes at the back that they have installed for wires etc to get in - otherwise you WILL have fruit flies eveeeerywhere around your house... :bash:

again - ill take pics for you.. lol


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

oh god - im halfway through doing the waterfall in my new viv!

Note to everyone - NEVER EVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GET EXPANDING FOAM ON YOUR HANDS!!!!!!!!!!

I got some on mine (all over mine actually) last night and ive tried everything to get it off!! this morning my hands look 90 years old!!

whats even more annoying is that im a piercer - ive got a box of 1000 latex gloves in the wardrobe :bash:


aside from that - its going well... :lol2:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

ha ha ha ha..I did that! LOL. It was a pain to get off. I used everything I had in the house. In the end a long soak in warm water followed by moisteriser and gloves over night healed them. 

I have been looking into mosses...seems alot of them carry fungal spores though and after my misfortune with my froggies I dont want to take any chances....any luck with growing moss from seed? How long does it take? I was just going to buy enough to cover the areas for effect but dont want to spend this much for it do die, or have another fungal infection get to the frogs.....

(this is for the viv I am re doing now...I will have more time when it comes to the dart frog viv but will probably be using the same stuff (ie external pump, moss etc)


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

ive used sheet moss and (this time) im also using a packet of koyoto moss spores - ive had it work in the past but germinating it is very hit and miss! 

ive never had a problem with moss - i get all mine from dartfrog.co.uk if its any help??


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I do have a square of moss from dartfrog. It was in the viv when the frogs died though so I probably wont be using it. I do want something that is pretty fast growing. I am going to the garden centre this afternoon so I will have a look to see if they have any cheep seed just to try in a separate tub....when there is enough I will just lay it in place. Ever used the Christmas moss re above?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

ive not used it personally but if it works why not!

ive tried: koyoto moss spores, pillow moss, tropical sheet moss, live sphagnum moss, and java moss - which is very pretty and all have worked well apart from the sphagnum! 

Sphagnum makes its environment very acidic so if you put it in a viv that is not... well i wasnt expecting it to last long.. and it didnt.. lol 

personally i wouldnt use ANYTHING from the RETF viv again - it sounded like they had a fungal infection and i wouldnt risk it - especially in a viv with delicate species like darts. 

How is your female getting on now hun?


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah. I have just chucked everything else but i have kept the moss just to experiment with it...if it works then I know what to do with new moss for the tank. I put a 3 peat plate peices in a plastic tub, added water and moss, and covered with cling film. It is on my window sill in the living room for light levels and if this works then as I say I will do it in the future...if not well, I have not wasted any. 

She seems fine. SHe is acting a bit funny but I wonder if she is bored in that tank. There is only the bare minimum for her in there. But she is leaping and climbing, sleeping at the top, in the water bowl at night and hunts really well. I am feeding her 2 crickets every night just now as I want to keep an eye on her eating and hunting. I dust them once a week at the moment and have kept humidity down a bit. The vet said that if it is too umid fungal infections will thrive...but I make sure when I mist that I hit her with the spray....


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

sounds like a good idea! 

its a good idea to keep your girlie with the essentials for a while, shes probably just settling in - when the new tanks up and going again she will love the plants and things to climb in when shes got a clean bill of health! 

i just finished putting in the stream in my viv.. what a mess you wouldnt believe the state of my room... just waiting for the foam to dry then ill attack it with silicone! lol...


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I am NOT doing foam again! Never. Ever. Would not even think about it! It took ages to get into it to take it out. This time I am just going to use a coco fibre back ground...easy peasy.

Found some moss for sale on ebay...but it is advertised as aquarium moss...like in balls and java moss and stuff...any ideas?


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I saw that moss too, and wasn't sure about using it. looks a little fishy if you ask me! lol. but yes if anyone has used this sort of moss, would be interesting to know.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

yeah eBay is a bit poo for moss - to be honest the only place ive found online is dartfrog for live moss (that isnt aquarium moss lol) 

everything else has to be imported which will be expensive and poo quality once it gets here!


i officially hate expanding foam. i had to use it for the waterfall though.. grr... hopefully it will have been worth it lol!


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

just a quick question as well, when using coco fibre backgrounds, how do you get a heat mat in without having to glue the coco to the tank? at the mo I have the bog standard Exo Terra 'rock' background and was thinking of changing it to this coco fibre stuff, but wondered about my heating?? as my heat mat goes down the back of the tank. and would like to be able to take it out every so often for cleaning etc. or incase of break downs. any suggestions??


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

The heat mat goes outside the tank. Is this what you meant? Coco fibre and pressed coco backgrounds are just an alternative to what came with the exo terras. You silicone them (with aquarium safe silicone) to the back of the tank. The heat should get through. Get a polystyrene square (thin and available at fish shops) and tape it behind your heat mat...beware though if it is exo terra...I am taking mine back as they are apparently known to burn holes and start fires...there is a thread about it somewhere. :2thumb:

This is like our own private little thread, quite nice eh!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

hehe very nice indeed!!

if the cocofibre background is a good fit and you have sticks and things against it - you may get away without having to silicone it to the back : victory:


but it IS a good idea to tape the mat to the OUTSIDE of your tank if its glass


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

my heat mat isn't an exo terra no, its a habistat one. but does get hot, I have it behind the polystyrene backing at present and so far no melting or any other probs. soo mmmm sounds like a plan!! coco background it may be, I have seen it big enough just for me to cut a little bit off, and it should fit snuggly, but I shall use some aquarium sealant on it to secure it, I just think the exo terra 'rock' background looks a bit naff. xx


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

I have this vine that is twisted. It is a metre long, and dead straight, really thick...dont know how I would use it..think snakes forum would want to buy it cause it was like 15 quid! Saying that it would be heavy to post. hmmm...i hate wasting things. Far too big for my delicate styled tanks.


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## chrism (Jul 5, 2007)

Off ebay:

Christmas Moss. Aquarium live plants. Large portion. on eBay, also Live Plants, Fish, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 04-Mar-09 12:28:18 GMT)

Spiky Moss x4 Portions - Live aquarium plant fish on eBay, also Live Plants, Fish, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 05-Feb-09 07:28:39 GMT)

It is an aquarium plant, but does great in dart vivs as you can see above. 


I bought sheet / pillow moss from dartfrog years ago and still removing slugs. Never had them before so could have only been that.

Be very careful using some companies.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/amphibians/238980-dartfrog-co-uk.html


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Dart frog has always been okay to me but then I guess no one is perfect. So if these mosses can grow outside of the water too then? Interesting. Moss seems like a cool plant in its own right huh....or am I just sad :blush:

Thanks for that anyway. I will have a closer look....:no1:


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

i spent 6 months last year studying mosses and their close relatives - at the risk of sounding like a huge loser - yes they are amazing plants!!! :blush:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

just ordered myself some coco fibre backgrounds and some amphibian safe aquarium sealant, should be delivered tommoz! woohooo. just need to find some sheets of polystyrene big enough, although I was thinking of gluing the old exo terra naff background to the back of the tank, save wasting it. and i know it is the perfect fit!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> just ordered myself some coco fibre backgrounds and some amphibian safe aquarium sealant, should be delivered tommoz! woohooo. just need to find some sheets of polystyrene big enough, although I was thinking of gluing the old exo terra naff background to the back of the tank, save wasting it. and i know it is the perfect fit!



damn good idea : victory:

im sooo nearly finished on my viv now!! im still waiting for 2 plants to arrive and i have to wait till tomorrow to test the water feature (letting silicone dry)

im sooo impatient :bash:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

I know! such a brainwave lol, I shall only stick it at the top, that way I can see to the heat mat if needed  can't wait to get it now, i'm impatient too! lol


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I'm about to set up my dart frog tank aswell! How easy is it to make a waterfall with expanding foam!?

This thread is great btw. Needed some ideas!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread, but I'm about to set up my dart frog tank aswell! How easy is it to make a waterfall with expanding foam!?
> 
> This thread is great btw. Needed some ideas!



its a NIGHTMARE!! lol - looks good when finished though. i just finished setting up my tank yesterday and i took step by step pics, however im just trying to make my waterfall work lol... will start a thread on it later : victory:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

PMSL. Expanding foam is okay if you remember to wear your gloves!:lol2:

Got my plants today. Went out looking for the coco panel, clay balls, external pump ect with no luck...so got my plants and a bacon roll instead. Here is a pic of them...there are 5. Two foliage type at the back, a whispy one, a beautiful jewel orchid with purple foliage, and a brom...it is a good start. Yay me with my plant names! 









and here is Betty sleeping in full view for a change...she is gaining weight and looks great!


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

aww looks great hun! i can never find those lovely dark leaved bromeliads - i got one from dartfrog but i killed it i think  boo.

expanding foam is evil!!! i will stand by this!!

... admittedly i would probably think it was less evil if i wore gloves :blush:

im still having problems getting this damn filter/pump to work - its great quality but second hand and didnt come with instructions! im having a play as i go along... ill post pics if i ever get it to work!! :devil:


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

what kind of pump are you trying to use? My Fluval pump was great but required 4 inches of water and only had enough power to pump up 6-7 inches in height...hense the need for the external. Look forward to the pics. that brom was from homebase but asda has some beautiful ones in at the moment for 7 quid in a vase!:flrt::flrt: (hits pocket) cling cling


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

hurrah i got it working!!!!!!! *proud of self*


(although i did just flood my bedroom in the process... to hell with it!!:lol2


im making a thread of how i made the setup now


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I've got the repti flo 200 or something on it's way, it's the one they use in the exo terra waterfalls. Guna have a play around with it and see what happens! wahhhh!!!!!!!!


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

hiya, i bought my coco panel from live foods uk, quite dear, but can't find it anywhere else? ordered the sealant at the same time, prob get it cheaper, but i thought to hell with it, get it at the same time, then I know it's the right one. plants look fab, and Betty is sooo gorgeous!!


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