# Rehoming Fees



## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

At the risk of beating my new record of three negative reputation points in one day, whilst at the same time giving people the chance to explain why I got them, I thought I would pose the question about rehoming fees.

What are rehoming fees ? From what I can work out, they are money charged by a rehomer to recoup the money that they have spent on the animal. 

What is the difference between a rehoming fee and a price ? Is income tax paid on money obtained from rehoming fees ? 

Why are rehoming fees preferable to voluntary contributions ? The way a lot of rehoming places work as far as I am aware is that the new potential owner is visited to see if they have the facilities and knowledge to care for the animal properly before handing it over. The emphasis is then on how well the new owner can care for the animal rather than on how much money they have.

I do not want this to turn into a row, just a discussion on what is happening with rehoming and on whether the consensus is that the way things are is good or not ... if you want to 'neg' me for asking what I feel are reasonable questions then go right ahead, it's no skin off my nose.

Steve.


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

I dont know why anyone would neg rep you just for asking questions but anyway...

The way i think it works is that the rehoming fee is standard for all the animals in a 'rescue'. For its not representative of the animals value (a beardie would cost the same rehoming fee as a GTP) it is a contribution to the running costs of the rescue and for their efforts in getting it back to health. If you are going to function as a good rescue, you not only have to have the money to afford the care of the animals (i doubt rehoming fees cover it but im sure it helps) but also ensure they go to the right homes.
Despite checking that people have the right set up, paying a rehoming fee would help to weed out the people who just want a free pet. I dont know how you'd stop the person selling on the animal (usually for more than the rehoming fee as rehoming fees arnt very much normally)

Some people advertise 'rehoming fees' which are basically just the animals price because they are either stupid or devious. lots of people would feel sorry for an animal that was being rehomed rather than sold.


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## Emz118 (Nov 22, 2006)

From what I understand it's to stop people who just want a cheap animal taking on a rescue which could have problems...

I think, for rescue centres, who are charities, it makes sense. If they say donations and get say £5 or £10 when they're had say a beardie in for 6 months, with vets bills etc and then a massive amount of livefood when it gets better, they're always going to be losing money and eventually have to close. 

If I was to get a rescue from a rescue centre, I'd more than likely pay the rehoming fee and give a donation. 

Oh, and I believe most vet the homes/owners as well. 

I see your point about experience over money, but I think it should be a combination, and I'm sure most of the time it is.


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## neil4842 (Jan 21, 2007)

same here i think its only fair for them to charge a re-homing fee instead of a contribution because that is one way to get people who will care for the reptile instead of people who want them as cheap as possible find out they can not care for them and then the rep will end up mistreated or back in a rescue. If it wasnt for these recues there would be many reps getting thrown out the door to die so a rescue is more than in there rights to ask for the rehoming fee other than a donation to secure the recues future as they are not a profit making business just people who give up there time space and money for something they love


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## neil4842 (Jan 21, 2007)

and also i dont think you should get neg for expresing your opinion as everyone has there own views on the way things are done.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Is this the case though ?

I have heard of rehoming places that have scales of fee depending on the animal being rehomed. I am sure it's not one set fee in some places.... and presumably if the place is a registered charity, there is nothing stopping them standing outside Tesco with a collecting bucket on a Saturday morning.

With regard to re-sales... it would be pretty straightforward to get the new owner to sign a contract stating that they will not sell it and in the event that their circumstances change such that they cannot care for the animal anymore, the animal comes back to the centre. If the animal is then sold, they are in breach of contract.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

There are many many so called rescues around who are seen to charge practically shop money for the animals,justifying it saying it stops people impulsivley taking on a reptile.This is horse shit,they are taking animals from people giving the impression of being a rescue when really it's a major money making set up.I do know genuine rescues where the welfare of the animal,and the ability of the potential new keeper are the 1st priority rather than charging £100 rehoming fees to recover costs,but this it seems is becoming a rarity


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## neil4842 (Jan 21, 2007)

The only thing with standing outside tescos with a bucket means either less time looking after the reps or employing someone else to help so that would defeat the object and the different scale of pricing is because different animals eat different amounts of food use more electric and cost more for the vets so a leopard gecko wouldnt cost much but something bigger would, This is my opinion anyway and good luck to all the people out there who run recue centres you deserve a medal, I try to do my bit by offering any unwanted reps a home but not on a scale like the rescue centres i will take on a unwanted rep if i have the space and if not i will source a place for the unwanted rep with someone else


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

if rescues didnt have rehoming fees, a few things would happen, one there would find it hard to care for all the reps that come in for example i have just rescued a 5ft common boa, he has so far cost me £70 in treatment and we are still counting and most reps that go into the rescues need the similar treatment it is very rare to get a healthy rep in ! second thing is you would have everyone coming wanting to rehome just beacuse its free and there may not have the adequate knoweldge on how to care for this animal and won't have a proper set up to house the animal, the re-homing fee puts these kind of people off.

lastly if there put the same price on everything say £50 would you pay £50 for a green anoel and you would be getting a bargain if it was something like i dont know lets say a red tail boa? hence where there have differnt rehoming fees.

and all re-homing fees have to be declared to the tax man : victory:


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## Emz118 (Nov 22, 2006)

Bosshogg... I was just thinking if you had one fee surely that'd be daft... I mean, like you say, I wouldn't pay the same for a leopard gecko as something big and expensive!!!


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

bosshogg said:


> all re-homing fees have to be declared to the tax man : victory:


So in the eyes of the law, a rescue that charges rehoming fees and is not a registered charity is a business since you have to declare it as income ?

Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for rescue centres... they do a very thankless job that needs to be done. But I still do not see the difference between a set rehoming fee and a price. If it has to be declared as income and taxed then surely, in the eyes of the law, the animal has been sold ?

The rescue centre has given the animal, money has changed hands for the animal which constitutes a contract.... that is a sale isn't it ?


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I also think that it is to weed out people who might not be serious about the animal.

Generally people who take on rehomes / rescues should do it not because they want a freebie; but because they were going to buy that reptile, had done the research, have the setup... and decide to give a home to one that needs it instead of buying from a shop.

In that case, they should be willing to pay whatever a fair price is on the market for that animal, but the bonus is, that money goes towards helping other reptiles... and you have the satisfaction of giving a home to something that really needs it.

Of course this could be £20 for a leopard gecko but if it's an albino boa constrictor that sells for £1.5k then you're not going to have the same rehoming fee  So I think the fee should be based on the price the animal would cost in the shop (although rescues are never that high, but just on that sort of scale).

Otherwise you'd have a bunch of people just trying to get the expensive stuff dirt cheap - and even open up the opporunitiy for immoral people to resell rehomed animals for a profit


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## baby05x (Aug 1, 2006)

how can you tell how that you got bad rep?
i tried looking at mine and cant see sod all
ps bless ya xx


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

ratboy said:


> So in the eyes of the law, a rescue that charges rehoming fees and is not a registered charity is a business since you have to declare it as income ?
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for rescue centres... they do a very thankless job that needs to be done. But I still do not see the difference between a set rehoming fee and a price. If it has to be declared as income and taxed then surely, in the eyes of the law, the animal has been sold ?
> 
> The rescue centre has given the animal, money has changed hands for the animal which constitutes a contract.... that is a sale isn't it ?


I am not sure of the legalities but as you have to pay rehoming fees from the RSPCA and all small animal shelters for dogs/cats when you rehome them.. which they state cover the costs of vet treatment, neutering, flea treatment etc... and they're not counted as a business or a "sale"... charities must be allowed to make these charges without it being a business in the eyes of the law, but I don't know what the law is on it exactly


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Athravan said:


> I am not sure of the legalities but as you have to pay rehoming fees from the RSPCA and all small animal shelters for dogs/cats when you rehome them.. which they state cover the costs of vet treatment, neutering, flea treatment etc... and they're not counted as a business or a "sale"... charities must be allowed to make these charges without it being a business in the eyes of the law, but I don't know what the law is on it exactly


No I don't think registered charities are businesses ( well they are, but they are registered and given legal cover to do what they do ) ... My point was that not all rescue places are registered charities. If they are not a registered charity and charge rehoming fees... are they a business, and are they selling the animal ?


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

ratboy this is taking from the HM revenue site



> Charities trading outside the statutory and concessional exemptions may arrange for a trading activity to be carried on by a wholly owned trading company. Using this approach it is possible for the trading profits to be applied for charitable purposes without incurring tax.
> Companies owned by charities are liable to pay tax on trading profits in the same way as other companies. But, like other companies, they can get tax relief for charitable payments to a charity under the company Gift Aid scheme. Subject to certain restrictions in S339 ICTA 1988, a company donating all of its taxable profits to charity will get a tax deduction equal to the amount of the profits, so that no tax will be payable. In the hands of the charity the donation will not be regarded as trading income, so that it will be exempted from tax (provided, of course, it is used for charitable purposes


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Athravan said:


> I also think that it is to weed out people who might not be serious about the animal.


So someone has to be able to afford the shop prices of an animal before they can be serious about and able to keep one ?


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

I can understand the question, but to be honest, no two cases are the same.

Most rescue places are not charities, just people with lots of experiance who can provide the time and care animals need.

They have to be ready for most anything and at any time. For example, a call from the police at 8pm on a sunday that results in 5 different snakes, 3 beardies, 2 leos and a bosc needing care, medical attention and housing.

Just to be able to have the housing available costs money, as does the traveling to the site (in the above case 70 miles round trip) Vets bills to humainly put to sleep two snakes, medication for limb injuries and of course loads of LTC.

We do this as we belive all animals have the right to proper care and attention and we dont get paid for it at all.

Most of our animals get rehomed with society members, who dont pay any fee, but may return a favour at some stage. 

If we advertise any for rehoming, then we do sometimes set a fee, which helps towards not just the cost of that animals stay, but to everything else we do.

For tax reasons, Yes, anyone making a profit (even when selling babies) should include any such income on the yearly tax return. This does not mean tax has to be paid on it, as of course there is a cost related to the income, and often that cost is greater than the fee, so in fact, as a business activity, a loss is made, which in thereory can be offset against other income.

We I SELL a baby or other animal, all rights to ownership pass to the purchaser, but when I rehome, we retain the right to remove the animal under certain curcumstances, thus the fee is NOT paid by the new keeper to buy the animal, rather for the right to look after that animal as thier own.

I guess it could be compaired to a lease on a car, you pay it each month, you have to look after the car, insure it, maintain it, but its never yours, at the end of the lease it goes back. The only difference here is you get to keep the animal for as long as it survives, or you can no longer keep it.

Thats my take on it, may not be others but hey ho !


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

ratboy said:


> So someone has to be able to afford the shop prices of an animal before they can be serious about and able to keep one ?


Not necessarily, but it helps - if you can't afford the price of the animal, can you afford the food, the vets bills, the heating... the price of the animal is usually quite small in comparison to that!

If you can't afford the animal - are you likely to have to sell it on down the line?

But most of all... if you had low rehoming fees on valuable animals, they WOULD be gained by profiteers and resold.. we all know there are immoral idiots out there who would pose as genuine people for all of a week then it's resold for profit. You can't offer low rehoming fees in case people can't afford it but expect idiots not to take advantage of that for their own gain.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> I can understand the question, but to be honest, no two cases are the same.
> 
> Most rescue places are not charities, just people with lots of experiance who can provide the time and care animals need.
> 
> ...



That mate ( Sorry, I don't know your name ) is EXACTLY the take I have on it too.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Athravan said:


> Not necessarily, but it helps - if you can't afford the price of the animal, can you afford the food, the vets bills, the heating... the price of the animal is usually quite small in comparison to that!


Can I afford £120 for an adult radiated rat snake to go in the spare viv I have at home ? Possibly.

Can I afford £1 every 10-14 days for a rat to feed it and another £1 a week to heat it ? call it what £1.50 a week ? Yes.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

ratboy said:


> Can I afford £120 for an adult radiated rat snake to go in the spare viv I have at home ? Possibly.
> 
> Can I afford £1 every 10-14 days for a rat to feed it and another £1 a week to heat it ? call it what £1.50 a week ? Yes.


If you can't afford the £120 to buy it what are you going to do if it needs £200-300 of vet treatment? My vets fees for this year are already up over £500 and that's only taking on a very sick rescue tortoise and needing surgery on one of my snakes

But like i've said, that's not the ONLY reason rehomers should charge reasonable fees.. it's one of many reasons, including the fact that if you charge £20 for a £120 snake then someone is going to buy it and sell it on for £120.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

have to agree with Athravan you may be able to buy the animal but what about things like wormer, vet treatment, like i said my rescue boa has already cost me over £80 and still going! so yes rescues should charge a rehoming fee becaue there we=ont just have one bill there will have several


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> if you charge £20 for a £120 snake then someone is going to buy it and sell it on for £120


and why is that not ok... 

when it *is* ok to be given one for free and rehome it for £100 ?? 

N


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Nerys said:


> and why is that not ok...
> 
> when it *is* ok to be given one for free and rehome it for £100 ??
> 
> N


who asks for £100 rehoming fee?? my local reptile rescue rehoming fee for a boa is £60 what i think is far in my eyes after there have treated it, fed and housed it. surley people should be happy to pay a fee as there know there are giving an animal that has been miss treated a home it deserves 

if people dont like rehoming fee dont rehome buy your animals!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Nerys said:


> and why is that not ok...
> 
> when it *is* ok to be given one for free and rehome it for £100 ??
> 
> N


Because, I suppose the reptile rescue isn't lying about it? People know that rescues take in unwanted animals. Sometimes in good health, sometimes in poor health. Sometimes they'll get a good healthy animal for free and ask £50 rehoming... sometimes they'll get in a sick animal spend £200 on vets fees and still ask £50 rehoming.

There's no hard and fast rule for rescue/rehoming is there? But at least they're not lying about it.

What's not ok for me is for someone to LIE and say that they are taking on this animal, going to give it a permanent home.. when in fact it's sold within a week. They've profited by deception at the expense of rescues and the animals health.. who will only get stressed being moved on so quick. Reptile rescues shouldn't profit full stop. If they get one animal in and make a "profit" on the rehoming fee, it just goes on the sicker animals, more housing, more bills.

That was my conception of legitimate rescue rehoming anyway.. which is a big difference to me than someone lying and reselling a rescue gained by deception. Perhaps there are rescues out there just making a profit by selling perfectly healthy animals and refusing the sick ones.. I don't know, I'm sticking up for legitimate registered rescues who's outgoings are far far far higher than their income.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Nerys said:


> and why is that not ok...
> 
> when it *is* ok to be given one for free and rehome it for £100 ??
> 
> N


Sorry, maybe I am missing the point, but surely a rehomeing fee is not a reflection of the market value of an animal, but a contribution to the costs etc incurred in rehabilitating the animal.

And I am not sure if its as simple as being 'given one for free' , its often a case of having to take it, accompained by the police and RSPCA because some twat cant be bothered to look after it properly or pay vets fees when needed.

Rescue places are not bottomless pits of cash, to be used to pay for treatment, medical and phsycological, and seen as a source of free animals.

Ultimatly, its down to each one of us as to pay a fee or buy. personal choice, and I for one would rather pay a fee (be it cheaper, dearer or the same as buying from a shop) than supporting the possible WC trade, for an animal I wanted.

Same thing allpies to customs, if you rehome for them, you pay a fee. they are not permitted to give animals away, as its profiting for illegal actions, but they charge a fee to allow you to provide a safe home. Any customs animals always remain the propery of HM Customs.

Oh, and the names Tony !!:lol2:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> who asks for £100 rehoming fee??


well some try to!


don't get me wrong i have nothing against re-homing fees...

i have several here who i have given a donation for, but its not linked to the value of the animal.. after all a carpet python costs no more to house than a corn.. from a rescue point of view..

transpecos ratsnake.. thats not a "cheap" animal, i can't remember what dave asked for, but it was under 20 quid..

i was asked to dontate £20 for the male carpet python i rehomed... now.. he has not cost me £100 since to keep and feed and house and he's been here more than a few weeks.. since last summer actually.. 

i've got an albino male burmese python who i was given as a free rehome... does that mean i can't afford to look after him, or might sell him on? no donation requested.

i've got a blue nosy be panther cham here who i was given as a free rehome. no donation requested.

i've driven miles and put myself out to pick up rehomes that might have been "free" but have cost me time, petrol etc... but becasue i don't have the word "rescue" tacked as a guady bullshit addtion to my name.. i don't "count"

i would rather people had a fixed price.. £25 for small ones.. £35 for medium ones and £45 for large ones that makes no relation to their value, as a carpet who needs rescuing is as much value to me as a corn that needs the same.

i also do not like rescues who pick and choose their breeding stock from animals they are given or come via by confiscation. surely if you are a rescue, then all animals you get in, as long as they are fit, should be rehomed. 

surely saying "i'm going to keep these ones for myself as they are worth several 1000 if they breed" is a bit... well... iffy really ! is that not abusing your position as a rescuer.. if you get to cherry pick the best you get.. to creme off for yourself?

i think there are a lot of people running so called resuces as thinly diguised attempts at a business. 

N


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Athravan said:


> If you can't afford the £120 to buy it what are you going to do if it needs £200-300 of vet treatment? My vets fees for this year are already up over £500 and that's only taking on a very sick rescue tortoise and needing surgery on one of my snakes
> 
> But like i've said, that's not the ONLY reason rehomers should charge reasonable fees.. it's one of many reasons, including the fact that if you charge £20 for a £120 snake then someone is going to buy it and sell it on for £120.


I am really playing devils advocate here, I can afford the £200-£300 vet bills if I need to and I can afford £120 for the snake... but not everybody can and that may be a great reason for taking out vetinary insurance, but that is really beside the point.

A valid point, I feel, is that if you take the animal from the rescue center, *it should be healthy* ... especially if a rehoming fee is paid for it... surely that must at least equate to a guarantee of the animal being perfectly healthy otherwise what exactly are you paying for ?

My total vet bills in 9 years of keeping rat snakes are £400.... that is TOTAL... and that money was spent on animals that I rescued directly from their previous owners. 99% of problems that I have come accross with rat snakes are starving and overfeeding, which the vet cannot do much about and scale rot and R.I. which are down to bad husbandry but are easily treatable. I have never had to take any healthy animal that I have bought to a vet.

Selling on .... Yep. I disagree with selling on but I do not disagree with re-rehoming. I have one, sometimes two vivariums free at home for 'emergencies'. The viv is currently occupied by Laurence, an adult grey rat snake. He is now, fit, healthy, inquisitive and full of the rat snake spirit that he should have. I have had him for coming up for 3 years.

Would I rehome him ? Yes. I would, to the right person. I would then have the vivarium free to take on another animal.

Would I charge for him ? No, I would not. Of course he has cost me money to get him to where he is now, but I expected that when I took him on and the pleasure I have got from getting him to where he is now ... priceless.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Nerys said:


> well some try to!
> 
> 
> don't get me wrong i have nothing against re-homing fees...
> ...


 

I think people that quiety tick along in the background seem to be offered more rescues than those that openly 'advertise'............ and the people that 'count' are those people, people like steve and nerys who care for carings sake, dont have fancy banners etc, but yet are still offered rehomes every week because they are trusted and have a wealth of knowledge.

My last two rehomes that went on to new homes were fostered out on the understanding that,if for any reason they can not stay with them they come back to me........ no money changed hands and there are two happy healthy much loved corns being owned localy by novice owners who ask me loads of questions and want to really do right by their charges, and, o coin steves phrase, feeling that you have got them in to a really great home healthy and relaxed snakes is priceless.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Only just seen this thread LOL

Rescue centres don't need to be registered charirties, if they claimed to be so then they must divulge their charity number. They don't have to be registered as a business either.....thats almost like being a shop. We are a non-profitable organisation and have to follow the same regulations stipulated by the council for fund raising etc.

Staggered rehoming fees are in place here as very few people would rehome say a leopard gecko for more than shop or breeder prices, hence why i ask only £15, but giant reptiles such as burmese pythons I ask alot more to try and prevent silly egostatistical prats trying to get their hands on these beautiful creatures.

Rescue centres do not make any profit at all, as that isn't why they got into caring for reptiles at all. Just our terrapin pond alone costs us a small fortune to keep but I certainly am not complaining.

Ratboy don't know why you got negative what ever they are called lol as everyone is entitled to ask questions and have a great debate.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

mmm, walking a thin line me thinks....

but...

I dont see that there is anything wrong in my taking in a rehome or a rescue, that happens to fit my area of interest and deciding to give that animal a full and proper home myself.

No difference between me rehoming it or someone else. I think its unfair to say that someone who resuces an animal must pass it along, and cant give it a home themselves.

Having said that, I do know where your coming from, and do agree there is a lot of, lets say , underhanded 'rescues' going on.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

purejurrasic said:


> I can understand the question, but to be honest, no two cases are the same.
> 
> Most rescue places are not charities, just people with lots of experiance who can provide the time and care animals need.
> 
> ...


Seldom does a post come along and get it so spot on that i have nothing to add except "what Purejurrasic said"

That is basically the way it is.. legally and morrally... But I don't think even a lot of people who run rescue centres could even put it close to that as umn...well its a shame...thats how a rescue centre should work for sure.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

From what I have read then... there are very blurred distinctions.

The fee is basically a donation to the running of the rescue and as long as the rescue does not make a profit, everyone is happy. But I have still not got my head around the rehoming fee part.

For example, if I paid a rehoming fee for an animal then I would guess that under law, that does form a contract as the fee was stated to be a rehoming fee for that particular animal... which to all intent and purpose, is no different to me buying it from a shop. Money has changed hands and I have paid for the right to take that animal away.

Would it not be better to have it labelled as a contribution towards the running of the rescue so that the animal I am taking away with me is not mentioned in the transaction ?

The amount could still be scaled depending on the animal being rehomed since they have taken up more time and space than smaller animals while they were resident at the rescue.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Nerys said:


> and why is that not ok...
> 
> when it *is* ok to be given one for free and rehome it for £100 ??
> 
> N


 
Regardless of the amount a rehoming fee is there is never a free reptile!


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> Same thing allpies to customs, if you rehome for them, you pay a fee. they are not permitted to give animals away, as its profiting for illegal actions, but they charge a fee to allow you to provide a safe home. Any customs animals always remain the propery of HM Customs.


The problem is and is the same for if you make them sign a contract, what are you really going to do if they decide to sell the animal on at a profit?
Maybe HM Customs will be able to prosecute on some minor charge but the contract wouldnt be worth anything. You could sue them but for what? you wont gain anything really and at great cost to the rehoming centre.
You would also have to find some way of keeping track of owners and monitoring them. Can rescue centres really afford the man power or money to continually monitor rehomed pets. After all most will have alot of animals pass through.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Noooooooo

I can only speak for the way I run things, not for anyone else, but...

If you rehomed one of my animals, and if i charged a rehoming fee, then I still retain the right to remove that animal from your care should I deem it necessary, and that written in the rehome document I provide.

If I sell you one of my baby geckos, apart from my moral obligation to ensure you are able to provide it with the right care, I have no 'after sales' rights to that gecko, its up to you what you do with it.

Look at is a bit like buying and renting.

Tony


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Most centre do have paperwork which is an agreement which does not allow the animal to be sold on regardless of circumstances and the animal must be returned to the centre....this is exactly how customs do it too!


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

purejurrasic said:


> If you rehomed one of my animals, and if i charged a rehoming fee, then I still retain the right to remove that animal from your care should I deem it necessary, and that written in the rehome document I provide.
> 
> Look at is a bit like buying and renting.
> 
> Tony


Again though how do you police this?
If someone takes away an expensive snake (whatever kind) with the purpose to double or triple their money how are you going to make sure this doesnt happen?

Especially if they have travelled a distance to collect the animal.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

when i rehomed from reptile rescue Hull i signed to say if my circumstances changed and i could no longer provide adequate care for the rep that i would return it to reptile rescue, i think this is pretty much standard practice.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

But surely paying a fee gives the new owner some rights ?


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

Reptilerescueden said:


> Regardless of the amount a rehoming fee is there is never a free reptile!


thats a real shame... obviously i am just lucky then as several of mine have been free, and been delivered, so there is not even time and petrol to go get them to take into account.

mind you.. is far outwieghed by the ones i have to drive halfway round the uk for..

see thats why i don't call myself a rescue.. if i get given something nice i want to keep it for myself and not have to feel that i should feel guilty about it.. 

i do pass on some of my rehomes, but i don't ever charge for them, regardless of what it cost me in petrol and time to pick them up and look after them. if it is given to me for nothing in the first place.. then i give it away for nothing when the time comes to do so. and thats that really.

N


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

wohic said:


> I think people that quiety tick along in the background seem to be offered more rescues than those that openly 'advertise'............ and the people that 'count' are those people, people like steve and nerys who care for carings sake, dont have fancy banners etc, but yet are still offered rehomes every week because they are trusted and have a wealth of knowledge.
> 
> My last two rehomes that went on to new homes were fostered out on the understanding that,if for any reason they can not stay with them they come back to me........ no money changed hands and there are two happy healthy much loved corns being owned localy by novice owners who ask me loads of questions and want to really do right by their charges, and, o coin steves phrase, feeling that you have got them in to a really great home healthy and relaxed snakes is priceless.


I feel that those who claim to be rescues and keep everything they get in are boardering on animal hoarding! Then you see so many of those so called rescues then sell reptiles, the classified are full of them.

One way i found where people can keep up to date with what comes in and how they came in is via my forum and my website.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Nerys said:


> thats a real shame... obviously i am just lucky then as several of mine have been free, and been delivered, so there is not even time and petrol to go get them to take into account.
> 
> mind you.. is far outwieghed by the ones i have to drive halfway round the uk for..
> 
> ...


You must be lucky as nearly all of our rescues DO require us to travel many hundreds of miles sometimes.


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

You should only charge a rehoming fee not the market value thats a bit much really after seeing that thread offering that coastal for £100 i was thinking thats way over the top and honestly thought you were just out for proffit ..i was a little bit annoyed to say the least. lets face it if you want to deter prats from rehoming reptiles with you, all you have to do is vet them and check out there situation home visits etc, if your really that concerned to rehome thats what you should be doing .im not saying you dont already .Set a rehome fee and stick to it £30 maximum for snakes and lower for lizards , after you have vetted sombody properly it will do the trick and raise your popularity surely .

just my pennys worth


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

SteveL said:


> You should only charge a rehoming fee not the market value thats a bit much really after seeing that thread offering that coastal for £100 i was thinking thats way over the top and honestly thought you were just out for proffit ..i was a little bit annoyed to say the least. lets face it if you want to deter prats from rehoming reptiles with you, all you have to do is vet them and check out there situation home visits etc, if your really that concerned to rehome thats what you should be doing .im not saying you dont already .Set a rehome fee and stick to it £30 maximum for snakes and lower for lizards , after you have vetted sombody properly it will do the trick and raise your popularity surely .
> 
> just my pennys worth


I am not interested in market value, if I was then I'd be charging it all the time. how does £100 for one animal make me in it for profit when in two years i am down by round £4,000 lol If people don't agree with what i ask then they don't go for it, it's simple as that. I have rehomed lots of animals over the years and rescued 215 to date. I love my work and a rehoming fee will never repay financially or emotionally what i personally put into my rescue centre. We get very few donations so the rehoming fees just lighten the load.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

as said... this thread was not intended to have goes at people. Just to discuss rehoming fees and what they are.


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

Reptilerescueden said:


> I am not interested in market value, if I was then I'd be charging it all the time. how does £100 for one animal make me in it for profit when in two years i am down by round £4,000 lol If people don't agree with what i ask then they don't go for it, it's simple as that. I have rehomed lots of animals over the years and rescued 215 to date. I love my work and a rehoming fee will never repay financially or emotionally what i personally put into my rescue centre. We get very few donations so the rehoming fees just lighten the load.


Sorry but if you want to offer a rehoming service financial problems should not come into it at all.Get the charity tin out more and set up fund raisers dont try to over charge for animals you have been given free .also theres rehoming services every where, you should just stay local to you so you dont incur petrol costs etc etc .The whole reason i replied was to offer my opinion and i here what your saying but im sorry but you seem to chop and change your prices a little and people have obviusly noted it .myself included 

thats me out of this debate and the best of luck with your business


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

what pathetic idiot gave me bad rep for this reply ??

pathetic


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

SteveL said:


> Sorry but if you want to offer a rehoming service financial problems should not come into it at all.Get the charity tin out more and set up fund raisers dont try to over charge for animals you have been given free .also theres rehoming services every where, you should just stay local to you so you dont incur petrol costs etc etc .The whole reason i replied was to offer my opinion and i here what your saying but im sorry but you seem to chop and change your prices a little and people have obviusly noted it .myself included
> 
> thats me out of this debate and the best of luck with your business


Sorry but you got the wrong end of the stick...I don't have finacial problems. I was simply stating a fact that i am not in it for profit.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

SteveL said:


> Sorry but if you want to offer a rehoming service financial problems should not come into it at all.Get the charity tin out more and set up fund raisers dont try to over charge for animals you have been given free .also theres rehoming services every where, you should just stay local to you so you dont incur petrol costs etc etc .The whole reason i replied was to offer my opinion and i here what your saying but im sorry but you seem to chop and change your prices a little and people have obviusly noted it .myself included
> 
> thats me out of this debate and the best of luck with your business


 
LOL I don't run a business BTW :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

As i said i put my views over thats it no disrespect to you personally either what ever you do is non of my business take it as feedback from a normal rep keeper  

"waits for more rep BUTTON abusers to strike LOL"


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Think this thread is full of rep abusers LOL

Steve i don't take anything personal mate, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

BTW Carpet Python that was mentioned in this thread has now been rehomed subject to clearance on the said rehoming fee.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

A couple of replies in one here, been busy working !

Enforcing rehome agreements.

Your right, it is hard to enforce these, At the end of the day, barring costly legal action, they cant be enforced. I can not enter anyones home and take back an animal. Its down to trust, but the agreement is kinda gentlemans handshake, and If i found out someone had broken it for the wrong reasons, I would of course make my thoughts heard, but would I be willing to take action? who knows.

We do keep the forms, which is a record of who has had what, even with the non fee rehomes we keep info.

Rescue v rehoming

Not sure if I have mistaken a comment, but as a resuce centre, we have to be prepared to take in any needy reptile (subject to space, when we try to find alternatives). If you rehome a reptile, dont you get the choice as to have it or not?

Fee's

Simple rule of life, everything costs. maybe you are lucky and avoid the cost, but someone somewhere will pay. If a price in a shop is to much for you, pass it by, like wise a rehome fee, if its to much, pass on it. I am sure if a fee is to much, the reptile will be left at the centre, and at some stage the fee may well be revised, after all, its a good home thats needed, not the odd £100.

Summary

Seems to me that if one dedicates themselves to caring for otherwise uncared for or unwanted animals, they must pay for it out of thier own pocket, spend all thier time with the animal, not be able to keep thier own animals and pass on only 100% fit and healthy animals to anyone, for nothing, then sit back and watch someone gain when they sell it because its so hard to enforce otherwise. 

Pretty fair deal I reckon !!


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

Reptilerescueden said:


> Think this thread is full of rep abusers LOL
> 
> 
> 
> BTW Carpet Python that was mentioned in this thread has now been rehomed subject to clearance on the said rehoming fee.


 
:grin1:


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

SteveL said:


> what pathetic idiot gave me bad rep for this reply ??
> 
> pathetic


I thought you could click on the scales and see who and why? not sure about neg but you can with pos... i think !


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

SteveL said:


> :grin1:


LOL Don't be too shocked steve, I have worked damn hard to gain what knowledge I have and run my centre the way i do. And the chap is off this forum who is rehoming it.

Regards Denise


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

you cant see i dont think..
I dont seem to be able to see mine atall recently which is odd, no record anywhere.


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## Guest (May 14, 2007)

Reptilerescueden said:


> LOL Don't be too shocked steve, I have worked damn hard to gain what knowledge I have and run my centre the way i do. And the chap is off this forum who is rehoming it.
> 
> Regards Denise


i never said i was shocked you did :lol2: 

i hit a smiley face i tend to use a lot its called the grin smiley :grin1:


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

SteveL said:


> i never said i was shocked you did :lol2:
> 
> i hit a smiley face i tend to use a lot its called the grin smiley :grin1:


ROFL it looks shocked lol: victory:


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> you cant see i dont think..
> I dont seem to be able to see mine atall recently which is odd, no record anywhere.


I dunno where to start with this rep lark at all lol so i dont bother


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

bosshogg said:


> who asks for £100 rehoming fee?? my local reptile rescue rehoming fee for a boa is £60 what i think is far in my eyes after there have treated it, fed and housed it. surley people should be happy to pay a fee as there know there are giving an animal that has been miss treated a home it deserves
> 
> if people dont like rehoming fee dont rehome buy your animals!


I'm not sure which rescue it was,but very recently I saw a normal phase burmese python advertised by a rescue with a £100 rehoming fee applied.Now that is far,far more than you would pay from a breeder and even most shops.In fact,I'm sure the same ad had a kingsnake available for £60 too!There is a big difference in having a rehoming fee to cover costs,and charging over the odds for reptiles,that is simply lining their own pockets.And £60 for a common BCI is well over the stack too!


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

what after there paid over £200 in vet bills and nursed it back to health?? kept it and fed it for 6 months?? the boa in question is over 6ft female and is now perfectly happy and healthy living with me to 

anyway the money is nothing to do with why i rehome i rehome as i know i am giving a snake a loving home it deserves, i think people are just been petty arguing over how much should be charged!!!


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

barrym said:


> I'm not sure which rescue it was,but very recently I saw a normal phase burmese python advertised by a rescue with a £100 rehoming fee applied.Now that is far,far more than you would pay from a breeder and even most shops.In fact,I'm sure the same ad had a kingsnake available for £60 too!There is a big difference in having a rehoming fee to cover costs,and charging over the odds for reptiles,that is simply lining their own pockets.And £60 for a common BCI is well over the stack too!


I rehomed a normal phase burm 18ft long for £100 Barry so I guess you mean me. Well it was here for over 14mths so £100 rehoming fee doesn't even cover the food costs to build that poor sod up.
Any BCI's I have had have been rehomed for £45.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

You know this is getting silly now.

Whatever the reasons, whatever the size of the fee, there will never be a time when everyone is happy.

If a fee is charged, and you dont like it, pass by and move on, go buy from a shop or breeder, no one is forcing anyone to pay the fee.

And if you really think that the way forward is standing out side shops with a collection tin, and 'giving away' all your hard work, whilst paying for it out of your own pocket, then by all means, set up your own rescue centre and watch all the 'free' reptiles come flooding in !

Sorry if that sounds rude, and its not directed at anyone specific, but reasons have been supplied, maketh you own mind up ! but please, lets not keep going over the same ground.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

purejurrasic said:


> You know this is getting silly now.
> 
> Whatever the reasons, whatever the size of the fee, there will never be a time when everyone is happy.
> 
> ...


Here Here!!!


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

agreed with the comment earlier that rescues should be ready for anything at any time. we have NEVER turned an animal down. Doubt we ever will. as for donations, as i state all the time 'the best possible home far outweighs a donation'. in fact if i recall the first rescues Nerys ever took off of our hands was a pair of corns i think, an anery and an amel if memory serves me correct, met up at norwich show. she offered me a donation that to me was quite substantial, i wouldnt accept it, i think i took 30 quid in the end for both of them. i may be wrong, i shall allow Nerys to correct me. my 'fee' is purely discretionary although i advise between 35 and 50 pounds for most animals which i think is fair. speaking from the point of view of a rescue, perhaps Denise agrees? it simply is not condusive to running such an organisation without recieving donations. all of the donations i recieve are discretionary, they arent a fixed fee. the best life for the animal is the name of the game for me. but people see how much work goes into it when they visit and more often than not i do recieve a small contribution, which is greatly appreciated.

I'm sure people are asking 'how do rescues make money and stay afloat?' well my method personally is too refurbish donated vivs and equipment and offer them to first time keepers for a fraction of the price they would pay in a shop. surely nobody finds that unethical? a fully kitted out 4x2x2 for less than the price of a brand new dimmer stat. they get a bargain, i get my next vet trip payed for.... bonus.

I also work my arse off which pays for about 85% of the whole operation. real rescues are fighting a losing battle, digging deeper and deeper into debt to do what we can for what we love, only to be subject to constant scrutiny thanks to the actions of a few bad apples. Nerys' trans pecos may have been hit with a rake if i had not driven 50 miles at 10pm. phils burms may have ended up dead in a canal if i had not turned half our home into south east asia for them (which consequently almost resulted in me being free and single again).

And just to clarify and be honest with everyone. I have 3 royals here that i have not rehomed purely for the fact that nobody wants a WC royal thats a quarter of a century old. mind you Nerys had a male off of me. one of the males is on his last legs, and the three females (one of which is actually a pet of mine, purchased) are gravid thanks to the dieing efforts of this ropey old male (what a way to go). I personally dont see this as unethical either, people will be crying out for WC bloodlines when they balls up the gene pool of P. regius as money loving 'herpers' go from species to species cashing in on pretending to be mother nature. so there you go I still have some rescues here that could have been rehomed (ie these royals) but nobody wants them, we also have a big male bullsnake here nobody wants, oh and 0.2 sinaloan milks and 1.2 pueblans, 1.1 corns. ALL of these are looking for homes, and if your a good keeper... be my guest. I also have no problem with keepers breeding rescues they recieve from me.... private keepers are far less likely to sell to complete bell ends than your local garden centre.

I also still have the very first animal i ever rescued 'shooz' a western hognose, that was YEARS ago and i have searched for a female ever since. oh but wait........ i DID have an adult female come in only last august. she was rehomed. I'm not here to cherry pick. just 2 months ago i rehomed an adult Irian Jaya carpet to a friend for nothing.

Well theres my rant over

ta for sticking around. great topic btw. : victory:


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

The original issue of this thread has been done to death now so Im going to bring something lese into the equation...
Personally I dislike any agreement which says you MUST return the animal if you can no longer keep it. Now if I were to rehome something from a friend I woud most certainly offer it back to them if I could no longer keep it, that is a given.

However if it came from a rescue I would be loathe to hand it back over to them really. They already have more than enough animals under their care and would rather rehome to a friend that knew what they were doing and wanted the animal than give it to an already stretched rescue.

Once an animal has left the rescue I would consider it mine, I have taken on the responsibility for its care and it is up to me what I do with the animal. This may not be popular.. but its how I feel.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i've still got the anery dave... and a few people off here have her children now too..  thumper went to the rabbit hutch in the sky..

still got the TP also, as you know, and the carpet from you... just off hunger strike now.. and that male royal of course who everyone loves..

can you stick my name on those two corns too hon.. am still after 4 for ZSL's outreach programme..

N


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Just another example of how to do things in different ways, yet end up doing the best they can for reptiles.

Hats of to anyone who gets involved !

You know, maybe its just a 'down south' thing, but i am used to paying so much out of my own pocket, that recently, I was really suprised, and chuffed when I went to collect a new viv. 

The great young lady (you know who you are) was helpful, and after loading it, even refused the small payment that we had agreed on in a proir PM. Its now sitting , flatpacked, ready at 15 mins notice for the next reptile that needs help. So once again, many thanks !

My old saying is, there is not right way, but plenty of wrong ways !


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

This is where I was coming from about voluntary donations.

I gave Dave £60 for an adult male Taiwanese Beauty Snake that was given to Dave as he was so aggressive ( remember him in MK Dave ? ). Now to me a decent fee would have been say £30 for a rat snake, but the snake was beautiful and had something about him... he was (and still is) fantastic.

Surely asking for a donation in this way is preferable to putting a value on a specific animal ?


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

PendleHog said:


> The original issue of this thread has been done to death now so Im going to bring something lese into the equation...
> Personally I dislike any agreement which says you MUST return the animal if you can no longer keep it. Now if I were to rehome something from a friend I woud most certainly offer it back to them if I could no longer keep it, that is a given.
> 
> However if it came from a rescue I would be loathe to hand it back over to them really. They already have more than enough animals under their care and would rather rehome to a friend that knew what they were doing and wanted the animal than give it to an already stretched rescue.
> ...


Any animal that I have rehomed, and there have only been a couple. I just ask to kept informed of where it is and who has it.


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

PendleHog said:


> However if it came from a rescue I would be loathe to hand it back over to them really. They already have more than enough animals under their care and would rather rehome to a friend that knew what they were doing and wanted the animal than give it to an already stretched rescue.
> 
> Once an animal has left the rescue I would consider it mine, I have taken on the responsibility for its care and it is up to me what I do with the animal. This may not be popular.. but its how I feel.


Thats the attitude and sense of responsibilty I am sure all rescue centres would hope that all rehomers had. For sure I dont really want any animal to return to me, much rather someone who wants it and can care for it took it on. The clause on our forms is there to highlight the fact it cant be *sold* on and they will always have a safe place to return to should it be needed.

In the same way you accept responsibilty, and freedom to do with it as you wish, does that not also apply to any one who takes on the responsibility? So if a resuce centre took on an animal, is it just as acceptable for them to do as they see fit, be that giving away, charging a fee, keeping for thier own collection, or what ever?


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

And that £60 bought enough panacure to keep 6 half dead, wormed to buggery leos alive. its all swings and roundabouts in this game. probably why i enjoy doing it so much:lol2:


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> And that £60 bought enough panacure to keep 6 half dead, wormed to buggery leos alive. its all swings and roundabouts in this game. probably why i enjoy doing it so much:lol2:


So very true ! sounds a lot, but it all comes and it all goes !


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

purejurrasic said:


> So very true ! sounds a lot, but it all comes and it all goes !


Yes indeedy :lol2:


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

> In the same way you accept responsibilty, and freedom to do with it as you wish, does that not also apply to any one who takes on the responsibility? So if a resuce centre took on an animal, is it just as acceptable for them to do as they see fit, be that giving away, charging a fee, keeping for thier own collection, or what ever?


Absolutely, I dont see a problem in a rescue keeping an animal they like, or setting a rehoming fee (though an extortionate one will do nothing for their reputation!) or dong whatever else they see fit with a particular animal.


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

When i first started rescuing I had in a GTP to rehome...I rehomed it for £35, leo geckos at £10, it's only since things have prgressed and everything is getting bigger and more and more serious that i have found asking a staggered rehoming fee is better as my poor hubby works 12 hrs a day on alternate day and night shifts to fund what i do. I can't work through illness. So any monies that does come in via rehoming fees or educational visit fees etc then it all helps but by no means cover everything. Think if everyone was to truely sit down and think about rescue centres logically they they would realise the there will never be any profit. Sure some animals can't be rehomed for one reason or another and life at the centre for the rest of their life...it's either that or get them put to sleep. and i just don't agree with that. Like for example aggressive iguanas, I have 2 aggressive ones here that require fresh veg every day...just how much do you think that costs? Not to mention heating their outdoor enclosures.

Just a few things for you all to think about :lol2:


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

PendleHog said:


> Absolutely, I dont see a problem in a rescue keeping an animal they like, or setting a rehoming fee (though an extortionate one will do nothing for their reputation!) or dong whatever else they see fit with a particular animal.


Fully agreed with ! nothing more to add....

....until someone else says something else !!!
:lol2:


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Reptilerescueden said:


> When i first started rescuing I had in a GTP to rehome...I rehomed it for £35, leo geckos at £10, it's only since things have prgressed and everything is getting bigger and more and more serious that i have found asking a staggered rehoming fee is better as my poor hubby works 12 hrs a day on alternate day and night shifts to fund what i do. I can't work through illness. So any monies that does come in via rehoming fees or educational visit fees etc then it all helps but by no means cover everything. Think if everyone was to truely sit down and think about rescue centres logically they they would realise the there will never be any profit. Sure some animals can't be rehomed for one reason or another and life at the centre for the rest of their life...it's either that or get them put to sleep. and i just don't agree with that. Like for example aggressive iguanas, I have 2 aggressive ones here that require fresh veg every day...just how much do you think that costs? Not to mention heating their outdoor enclosures.
> 
> Just a few things for you all to think about :lol2:


 
I here YA...

the rescue I volunteer with well... as you wil know so much of your own money goes on the animals... I dont go clubbing or meals out basically al the extra goes into the animals now since i first began as a volunteer...

but i do it for the love of it...

we have a rehome fee of £35 but of course for a rectic or something similar i can imagine it may be upped...

this stops the people who dont really want the animal seriously long term jumping on the band wagon.


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## CBR1100XX (Feb 19, 2006)

Well I have brought a few snakes from rescues.

I would never even think about questioning a fee against any purchase as having seen some of the rescues work I am glad to help.


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## Guest (May 15, 2007)

if `i` was a rescue....i would have a 1 off rehoming fee(wether that made something expensive or silly cheap) would not be the point though.
(thats just me..if i was a rescuer)but at the end of the day im not

i guess its a dodgy situation to choose how much rehoming fee to put on and i dont envy any rescuers for having to do this,

but what i think would make more sense and is more important is that more people should be donating to rescuers.

Its not always easy to...especially if your always skint.
but if you can then you should...money better spent than on the rspca anyway.

I think this will always be a dodgy subject a lot of people will agree with charging,a lot of people wont....


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## Nat (Jan 26, 2005)

I think rehoming fees are a great idea....and it is not normally for recues to recoup what they spent on the animal...most of the time rehoming fees get put directly into the rescue again either to pay for water/electric bills etc. be put aside for vet bills or used for food etc....

and If I ever was to get a rescue...I would always pay a rehoming fee!!


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

good topic, think we got it all said.
When we open our shop we are also going to use our house for rescues but will be completely seperate.
I dont plan to use a great deal of money from the business to suport it but running from home should atleast cut a lot out [as no added rent for premises...and the electric wont be noticed so much with everything else.

I may however, donate equipment/vivs or even cash from our shop to the rescue if it needs it... and that can come off the expenses and thus the taxes so we are hoping we will be able to keep it going without not being abole to afford take-aways when we want them


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