# Having trouble with one of my red eyed tree frogs...



## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Bought 3 together at about 1cm and they all seemed to be doing rather well on a diet of pin head crickets an fruit flies. However, one has become thin and seems uninterested in food. I noticed this yesterday and have since separated him away from the others thinking he may have been getting bullied out of food. Is there anything else i can do for him to get him eating again?


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

Seperating him is a good idea. But until it is happy it wont eat...when it does try a wax worm (only one) as they are very fatty and will help it but on weight. If they were wild caught there is a risk that it has some health problems and if this is the case it needs to be kept seperate to save the other two. If it is not there is still a chance that it is sick and take it to a herp vet...make sure it has very clean water and the temp is right. If the viv is not set up or maintained properly they will get sick wild caught or captive bred. Good luck.


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## deaxone (Feb 25, 2008)

uve done the right thing,put him in a small tank or tub,with plenty of leaves etc so he feels secure and hs easy access to the food,
fingers crossed for the lil froggy


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Its probably smaller than a waxworm :lol2:but i see your point.
I was told ordinarily they would take around 5 pin heads or fruit flies per day each. Should i offer this special one less so he isnt freaked out? I know from when i kept lizards live food can couse stress if left uneaten. 
It is in a much smaller tub now.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

Offer a few at a time and top up if it eats, also its a good idea to worm them as I have found out from my darts, some crickets carry worms.


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## alberts mamma (Jul 7, 2008)

Javeo said:


> Offer a few at a time and top up if it eats, also its a good idea to worm them as I have found out from my darts, some crickets carry worms.


Sorry off topic I know but you can worm your frogs


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

Yes thats what I said, I lost a d.azureus recently and cut it open only to finds it was full of worms . Ive now wormed all my other frogs, including red eyes, as they eat crickets from the same source.


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

How would one worm a frog?


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

You buy either panacur and dust the food with it or levacol and put a drop on the frogs back everyday for 7 days, this is what i did.
Bought it from Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

Strangely enough, I have just experienced exactly the same thing with one of my Red Eyed's! For 2 days it lost all interest in food and just sat the side of its water bowl. 

Yesterday when I seperated it from the others it was very thin so I just thought a few calcium dusted crickets would do the trick.. but this morning it was on its back, I thought it had died til I picked it out and its eyes opened. It seems to of lost all usage of its front legs and i have no idea what could of caused it as they're very well looked after and the others are all in stunning condition.

I just dont know what to do!


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## Weenoff (Jun 9, 2008)

And also.. There seems to be quite a few other people's RETF's suffering at the moment. Could it be weather change or something? Just seems a massive co-incidence


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

Sitting in the water bowl is a symptom of worm infestation, my azureus spent all the time in or near the water bowl, maybe the worms dehydrate them, but it causes the frogs to look fuller as the absorb water into their organs. Id suggest you worm your frog as soon as and start feeding it small hoppers, flightless ff or curly wing flies (depending on the frogs size) Also add a drop or wormer to the water bowl


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Javeo said:


> Sitting in the water bowl is a symptom of worm infestation, my azureus spent all the time in or near the water bowl, maybe the worms dehydrate them, but it causes the frogs to look fuller as the absorb water into their organs. Id suggest you worm your frog as soon as and start feeding it small hoppers, flightless ff or curly wing flies (depending on the frogs size) Also add a drop or wormer to the water bowl


DIY worming could easily kill a froglet (smaller than a waxworm!) that is likely to be underweight and already compromised. 

I would NEVER recommend this sort of action to someone who has no idea if their frog even has worms (it's a froglet so likely CB actually) and when we're talking about such miniscule dosages.
The appropriate advice in this case if you suspect parasites is to advise a faecal test, not to jump the gun and go straight for dropping drugs directly onto it!

It may be as simple as dominance or stress between the 3, seperating him off and reassessing your husbandry just in case is a better approach, give him a chance to eat by himself once he is away from competition and see how that goes 

Lotte***


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Good news it seems to be bulking up again since separating it form the other two. : victory: 

*Weenoff* Hope your little frog gets better. Im no frog expert but it sounds like a possible metabolic bone disorder a common problem in lizards.


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## ilovetoads2 (Oct 31, 2008)

*Read this on the internet...had remembered reading the symptoms you described and this is where....I know it is too late for your frogs but maybe it will help others that may notice the same problems...note at bottom...make sure you have a herp vet and are registered. *

How to Diagnose Your Tree Frog's Illness
Tree frogs get many sicknesses, just like humans do, but it can be a bit of a challenge to find out what your frog has. This covers some of the most common tree frog illnesses. Other kinds of frog may have different symptoms than tree frogs.
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*[edit] Steps*


*Watch for lethargy*. This can occur in various diseases such as Red-Leg, Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), edema, and others. Red-Leg is often fatal because there is no known cure for it. Red-Leg has many other, more noticeable symptoms as well. Metabolic Bone Disease is usually curable. MBD usually makes the frog stop eating and jumping. This is due to lack of vitamin D and calcium. The frog's jaw may also hang open and his legs are usually sprawled out. Edema is when the frog swells up and becomes lethargic just because it is so bloated. If your frog is lethargic and not bloated, then he does not have edema.
*Check for miscoloration*. Red-Leg causes the skin near the frog's legs to turn reddish. Some tree frogs naturally have a bit of reddishness on their legs, the Red-Eyed Tree Frog is a good example. Sometimes something as simple as lack of humidity can cause a frog to have darkened skin. A frog's skin may also be dark due to stress or a poor diet. If his skin is dry, this can also be from stress as well as dehydration. Sores and bruises, as well as cuts, can cause a frog's skin to look strange. If your frog's eyes are smoky, cloudy, foggy, or blueish, he most likely has a condition known as Cloudy Eye. This is from being bashed, poked, or scratched on the eye. This is also a symptom of immune system failure.
*Consider sleeping habits*. If your frog is awake during the day (most tree frogs are nocturnal) then he is probably just stressed out, although this is a symptom of various other diseases that will be discussed later in the article.
*Look for sores, cuts, and bruises*. These are probably due to being banged around while they were being shipped to the pet store or on the way to your home. This could also be the result of a bacterial infection, which needs to be taken care of by a vet. If not treated, these infections and wounds can let harmful bacteria into your frogs body. This can result in death.
*Beware of bloating.* If your frog has swelled up, it is almost definitely edema. There are actually two types of edema. One is the bacterial kind (which causes the bloating) and the other is from kidney failure due to vitamin toxicity. If it is the bacterial kind, you should soak your frog in clean spring water for a few hours. The frog should be alright after that. To prevent this, keep an extra clean cage and change water frequently. But unfortunately, kidney failure will most likely kill the frog.
*Monitor weight*. If your frog has gained or lost significant amounts of weight, then this can usually be fixed. If your frog has lost weight, he may have either an internal parasite or Metabolic Bone Disease(MBD). A vet can cure both MBD and a parasite. If your frog has gained weight, this is probably due to overfeeding. Cut back on the amount of food your he gets. However, if your frog is still fairly young, he may still be growing.
*Consider trouble with eating*. This is probably MBD because this disease weakens the bones of your frog and he will become lethargic. This could also be the result of a parasite. If you have more than one frog housed in the terrarium, some frogs could be getting more food than others. You should also make sure you are feeding your frogs small crickets, because medium and large are too big for them.




*[edit] Tips*


Do a bit more research on whatever you think your frog has.
If nothing listed here fits the symptoms of your frog then you can go to the petstore you bought them at to see if there is someone who knows this kind of stuff.




*[edit] Warnings*


Many of these diseases are fatal.
See a vet right away if you think anything may be wrong with your frog.
There are many other types of illnesses frogs can get.
Make sure the vet you see is an experienced breeder, herpatologist, or someone who specializes and has experience with tree frogs.




*[edit] Things You'll Need*


A good vet


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> DIY worming could easily kill a froglet (smaller than a waxworm!) that is likely to be underweight and already compromised.
> 
> I would NEVER recommend this sort of action to someone who has no idea if their frog even has worms (it's a froglet so likely CB actually) and when we're talking about such miniscule dosages.
> The appropriate advice in this case if you suspect parasites is to advise a faecal test, not to jump the gun and go straight for dropping drugs directly onto it!
> ...


Gods, sorry I was only speaking from my experiance! Actually my darts are cb as well so that didnt make a difference and they are tiny as well and were fine after treatment so I assumed a retf could handle it.


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Javeo said:


> Gods, sorry I was only speaking from my experiance! Actually my darts are cb as well so that didnt make a difference and they are tiny as well and were fine after treatment so I assumed a retf could handle it.


I'm trying to encourage a little more consideration before people offer any advice. 

In other areas of the forum people get away with hasty advice or experience based on totally irrelevant species and genera (sorry but that's what it is and you need to make that clear when you give it).

But when it comes to amphibians, they are just that bit less hardy than your average cornsnake or beardie.

I tear my hair out reading the "experience" dressed as facts and assertions to newbies in this forum. Every single time you (anyone and everyone) think about offering some advice, first question the damage you might do.

If you have not kept the species in question or encountered the exact problem you should make that obvious to the reader, even if you'd bet money on it being one particular problem such as a parasite infestation that needs treatment, overcaution is still a better approach, no?

The original poster is now saying his froglet is looking much better for a simple bit of isolation. Wouldn't we all be sorry if he'd jumped the gun and bought some general reptile worming treatment and accidently killed it?

Great news about it looking happier!
Lotte***


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

Yep the one i isolated is looking a bit better but the other two have died. Compleatly my own fault; i didnt spray them enough and it seems it was simply too dry. Gutted as you would imagine but im new to this amphib keeping, thanks all the same for the replies.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

I know what you mean Lotte, and I do agree with you, but in my defence I have both darts and Red eyes, I have treated both with worming treatment without any negative effects. Actually there is no sign of worms in the darts feaces at all now. Also I named the wormer which I used and know to be safe with amphibians. I didnt see that they were smaller than waxworms, or I would have suggested less than the 1 drop dose i did. so that was my mistake. I have always generally wormed all my animals as a matter of course as a preventative treatment, but did not do my frogs much to my regret and the loss of 2 darts. Frogs are much tougher than we think if all other conditions are optimal. 

Gaboon, Im sorry to hear that. If you dont have a mister/waterfall you have to mist them at least 2 times a day. If you decide to get more, buy or make a waterfall first. They need high humidity but good ventilation. I have a waterfall and this allows me to keep humidity at 70-80% but have a mesh top to allow plenty of ventilation. 
I do hope the little one makes it


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## Gaboon (Jun 20, 2005)

I know i did mist them at least twice a day but just this one day i forgot. Completely my fault no mystery here at least. Glad i separated one


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## Art_Gecko101 (May 6, 2006)

> There seems to be quite a few other people's RETF's suffering at the moment


I think this is just because RETFs are more fragile than people give them credit for a lot of the time (of course not everyone, but a lot of people do just see a pretty frog and assume its as hardy as a Hyla). Ive seen a massive increase in the amount of people buying small RETFs and with it an increase in the mortality rate.


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## Javeo (May 4, 2008)

They shouldnt have died if you missed one day, but small ones are very fragile. Id advise you to buy grown on ones next time. They are great frogs to keep and pretty easy if you take your time to make your set-up as best as possible. I only have to feed mine every few days and mist 2/3 times a week. Thats all the care they get.


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