# Hand rear red fox wanted



## princesspam (Sep 6, 2007)

I hand reared my red fox Farley from two weeks of age as a rescue and he lived in the house and in his outdoor enclosure for 10 months until sadly the back of his enclosure came loose due to the wood dampening over the winter. I believe he followed my dogs scent as he loved them so much and got lost trying to find his way home due to the weather washing away the scent. 
He's been missing 6 weeks now and I've done all I can inc newspaper articles and radio station announcements to make people aware of him and his enclosure will remain empty until he comes back one day but until then I am looking for another hand rear which will have all of my time and love just like Farley did. 

If anyone knows of any cubs please PM me. I will buy or rescue, loving, knowledgable yet empty home awaiting  x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

To be honest the scent a red fox leaves is very strong, so I would find it very hard that he couldn't find his way back home - IF he wanted to.

I suspect he's gone off looking for a mate and is happier being free.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

When interested in keeping wildlife as pets a good bet is to investigate and contact wildlife rescue centers, or better yet volunteer. Not all rescued wildlife is considered suitable for release so they might need someone to give a home to these animals.

Perhaps more suitable you could try looking for a domesticated silver fox? But as far as I can tell these are virtually impossible to find. Saw one on Preloved a while ago though.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I volunteer at a wildlife sanctuary and we do get animals that cannot be released as they will be unable to hunt successfully, so that advice is good.

Otherwise I think your best bet is to buy a captive bred one.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

What I think is more worrying here is the need to have a hand-reared one. Why do we feel that it's right to deny a mother animal the completion of the pregnancy/rearing/weaning process?

Parent reared animals can make great pets if the young are properly socialised, with the added bonus that you haven't put the mum through the often traumatic experience of losing her young!:bash:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

totally agree with this ^.

If an animal is orphaned, then that's a whole different situation and there is no choice, but wherever there is choice, animals should be reared by their mum. There is stuff to be learned that we, as humans, cannot teach them - they need their mum and siblings to do that.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

To go slightly off topic for a second……what's even worse is that a growing number of breeders are selling exotics (particularly raccoons and raccoon dogs) that haven't even been weaned yet, so the new owner is able to finish off the bottle feeding/weaning process! More often than not, these new pet owners are inexperienced with the species, so how can they expect to be able to do it properly? Very often the baby dies. 

How are these unscrupulous breeders allowed to get away with this?

Isn't this something that should have been addressed by the likes of BEMA? Is BEMA even still going? I've not heard anything of them for ages now.

Sorry….that's a whole ton of questions and a big sprawling tangent of a rant, but this issue gets me so riled!


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

Foxes for the pet market are commonly hand reared from about ten days, or from just before their eyes open. This is so that they bond better with people.
If you were destined to be a pet, I think it is better that you think your humans are your family, rather than other foxes which you may not get much contact with. This is quite important with a carnivore - I know as a fox I rehomed from someone would not accept me at all even though he was fine with his previous owner. I got bitten to pieces whenever I approached him. 
I'm not getting into arguments about keeping foxes, no, they aren't for everyone but I know of lots of very content ones in pet homes.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

The above arguments are why captive breeding is best: if the _mother_ is appropriately socialised with humans herself, she should be accepting of human contact with the kits, thus you can get the best of both: mother reared kits with sufficient human contact and socialisation. Even if we ignore the potential psychological trauma to the vixen, the nutrition is probably superior from the mother herself than anything we can create.
At the very least we learned that this seems to be the best approach for dogs and cats in our domestication lecture.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Disgruntled said:


> Foxes for the pet market are commonly hand reared from about ten days, or from just before their eyes open. This is so that they bond better with people.
> If you were destined to be a pet, I think it is better that you think your humans are your family, rather than other foxes which you may not get much contact with. This is quite important with a carnivore - I know as a fox I rehomed from someone would not accept me at all even though he was fine with his previous owner.


It saddens me that this is considered the norm….really it does! And you're wrong about the carnivore thing. I know of plenty parent reared carnivores that are perfectly fine pets!



Zerox Z21 said:


> The above arguments are why captive breeding is best: if the _mother_ is appropriately socialised with humans herself, she should be accepting of human contact with the kits, thus you can get the best of both: mother reared kits with sufficient human contact and socialisation. Even if we ignore the potential psychological trauma to the vixen, the nutrition is probably superior from the mother herself than anything we can create.
> At the very least we learned that this seems to be the best approach for dogs and cats in our domestication lecture.


Absolutely. If the work was put in by the breeder to properly socialise, then all parties can be happy…..including the mother! 
I took in a baby coati which was wild as all hell when it was weaned….just like it's mum. Within a couple of days, it was falling asleep in my arms. Within a week, it was riding around on my shoulder wherever I went. After 2 weeks, it was riding around on the dog and playing with it.

It's the unseen affect on the mother that really bothers me, but unscrupulous breeders and desperate new pet owners seem to overlook that, which is so infuriating……they see mum as a baby machine, and that's about it!:bash:

Example (one I've mentioned before)…….in a certain NW pet shop, I saw the staff bottle feeding tiny baby raccoons within eyesight of the poor mother, who seemed clearly distressed by the whole thing. But the shop can charge more for a hand-reared one!:whip:


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## Disgruntled (Dec 5, 2010)

There is no black and white with pets, its not ideal for even a hamster to be in a cage, we do as much as we can.
I expect the average pet skunk or raccoon have lives far less fulfilling, but face it, we have pets of ANY kind because WE want them, not because they want us.
Having had a fox cub from very young that was meant to be tame and spending two years trying to socialize it and failing, I know it can't always be done. Foxes are highly strung - I've had several so I don't need people telling me what they are like - I know what they are like.

Foxes are the most successful canid in the world, they are in no danger of becoming extinct and I have no problem with them being kept as pets by folk who do their homework.
So easy to criticize when it isn't YOUR pet of choice... :whistling2::whistling2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

errr....I wouldn't do it with any pet! Because to me this issue isn't about having cuddly tame pets....I'm more concerned for the welfare of the whole family. That crucially includes the mother.....the plight of which you seem to be conveniently ignoring!


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Disgruntled said:


> There is no black and white with pets, its not ideal for even a hamster to be in a cage, we do as much as we can.
> I expect the average pet skunk or raccoon have lives far less fulfilling, but face it, we have pets of ANY kind because WE want them, not because they want us.
> Having had a fox cub from very young that was meant to be tame and spending two years trying to socialize it and failing, I know it can't always be done. Foxes are highly strung - I've had several so I don't need people telling me what they are like - I know what they are like.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Since it is _our_ choice to keep pets, it is therefore our responsibility to do our very best for them. Within reason, of course.
As such I think allowing young animals to be reared by their mothers is in their best interests, and we need to accomodate ourselves around it.
I also think that it is in our best interests. As mentioned already, an already tamed mother should allow humans contact with her kits. In allowing humans to do so, she is also herself teaching her kits that humans are friendly. I feel that in an ideal environment, this may actually be _more effective_ than taking the young away and hence forcing them into human contact. I think their own, bonded mother teaching them that we are safe is better than letting them come to that decision themselves.
For all we know these young animals themselves are, for a time, scared of us or distressed at being separated from their birth mother. Bonding with many animals (including humans) starts _before birth_, so we can't pretend that the young don't know better if we take them away from their mother straight away. This also reinforces the suggestion that the mother is in some ways a more suitable candidate for showing the young that humans are friends than us ourselves. And again, this is all ignoring the plight of said mother in this situation.

Though in general, the ideal is of course, breeding towards domestication. Which has kinda been done already, apart from the difficulty in acquiring these individuals (I don't think you can get them anymore now can you...?)
Would be best if a group got together to gather enough to have a viable population nestled entirely in the UK.
The ideal's not always practical/easy though is it?


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## Jim charmer (Jan 9, 2014)

my last fox was a 12 week old wild cub that had been hit by a car, luckily he was just concussed so for the first week i had the chance to feed him and handle him while he was too dazed care, and with lots of time spent with him, including taking him to my workshop every day and even out doing deliverys in the car every evening he became very tame very quickly, maybe i just got lucky but with a lot of time spent with him and a lot of patience it worked for me. i think its definatly unfair on the mother to remove them before they are properly weaned.


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## Jim charmer (Jan 9, 2014)

forgot to add, as soon as breeding season came his wild instincts came back, one evening he was lying on the sofa with me eating pringles and having his tummy rubbed, about an hour after that i let him out for a wee and he heard the local foxes calling and he was off, but not before killing all of nextdoors turkeys! i still see him around but i dont think he's coming back this time. i'm also now looking for a replacement, even if its not hand tame as i have a 25 foot square purpose built run thats sitting empty and i enjoy just watching foxes even if i cant get near them (although one thats young or tame would be preferable ) pm me if you hear of any available.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

Jim charmer said:


> forgot to add, as soon as breeding season came his wild instincts came back, one evening he was lying on the sofa with me eating pringles and having his tummy rubbed, about an hour after that i let him out for a wee and he heard the local foxes calling and he was off, but not before killing all of nextdoors turkeys! i still see him around but i dont think he's coming back this time. i'm also now looking for a replacement, even if its not hand tame as i have a 25 foot square purpose built run thats sitting empty and i enjoy just watching foxes even if i cant get near them (although one thats young or tame would be preferable ) pm me if you hear of any available.


In cases like this (where release may not have been in the fox's best interest either), is neutering a possibility? I've heard it done for pet deer: the alternative being stags that have sharp antlers and a bad attitude for a couple of months of the year. Seems quite effective. I'll post a link later if anyone's interested?


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

For some reason I can't edit my post...?
Lenny the Muntjac Deer
I read a while ago that he's neutered, so no antlers or moody behaviour in spring.


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## clare newcombe (Apr 7, 2014)

Wow That muntjac deer is so cute, Where can I purchase one of these.


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## Zerox Z21 (Oct 10, 2012)

clare newcombe said:


> Wow That muntjac deer is so cute, Where can I purchase one of these.


I recommend reading through that blog. I already have; he is ALOT of work, not to be underestimated, and he lives in the USA, where breeding deer seems to be more common.
I don't know if anyone does at all in the UK. Certainly I looked into it and couldn't seem to find anything. Best bet I suggest would be rescues, or maybe contact the sorts of places that farm venison or something?


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## Celisuis (Jul 5, 2011)

I always believe that mother reared mammals to be the best course of action, the only time in which I would hand rear a baby mammal is if the mother had died or was otherwise incapable of doing so. 

I have the pleasure of knowing a hand-reared red fox, who is adorable, and i will also have the pleasure of owning a mother reared fox soon, both are brilliant and as stated previously, if the mother is tamed with human interaction, as should be the offspring.


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## corvid2e1 (Jan 21, 2007)

The other issue with hand reared animals is they don't always make such good pets as people expect. Hand rearing doesn't automatically make an animal tame, it makes them view you as the same species as them. This might make them friendly and cuddly while they are young, as they would be with their parents, but once they hit maturity, species that are solitary and territorial simply see you as competition, which can make them aggressive. We have a captive bred red fox that we picked up this season. She is parent reared but socialized from very young as the mother was also hand tame. She is just as friendly as any hand reared cub, yet with the bonus of being reared properly by her mother and growing up knowing she is a fox, not a human.


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## Chez86 (May 20, 2014)

Some people do keep them from hand reared young yes, but they STINK if kept indoors! Might be something to consider, an outdoor enclosure is probably the best bet with shelter and warmth for the winter, similar to a private cattery for domestic cats of an expensive nature who some do not let roam.


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