# Possible UK adder bite? Anyone help ID this?



## Lethalinjection-x

Hopefully the picture works properly, and before anyone calls me an idiot for asking on here opposed to going to see a medical professional... I'm making my way there tomorrow morning (unless someone confirms that my foot might drop off tonight, in which case I'll go sooner).

My boyfriend lives on a farm in Coventry, and I'm there a lot. I always walk the dogs around the fields a couple of times a day. Yesterday, I was doing just that (it was quite hot, middayish), and I felt a sharp twang on my ankle, looked down and noticed a bit of blood. I assumed I'd caught myself on brambles and carried on. However, the area became increasingly painful (but not enough to make me stress out). After the walk was done we made our way to the shop to get some shoes (wrecked mine on the walk :whistling2 and when I went to try them on, I noticed my ankle was swollen to twice the size of the other, and there was a huge red area around the bit that was bleeding earlier. Around the red area was a distinct white halo type thing. On prodding the swelling, I noticed that the finger dents did not disappear for at least 10 minutes, and the bit that had bled earlier was now two distinct red rings about 1.5cm apart (total guess, no measuring device). The whole thing is really hot to touch.

I put some bite and sting cream on when I got home, but I felt very queasy all last night and couldn't sleep 'cause I kept knocking it and waking up in agony. 

Today, I can't flex my ankle without screaming or put weight on my foot. The red rings are now joined in the middle by a dark red mark. The rings are EXTREMELY painful.

Now, I thought nothing of this >.< but my dad pointed out that adders are very frequently seen on the farm (large, might I add ) and suggested it could be an adder bite. What do you guys think? I'm heading down to the walk-in centre tomorrow, unless I'm gonna keel over before then? I guessed that you adder lovers out there might be better at IDing this than a doctor. Any info would be appreciated if anyone is still awake!

Laura


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## Lethalinjection-x

I realise no one has replied yet, but just thought I'd update. I did go to hospital, as I checked the area again and the redness is darker and larger, and the pain is a lot worse. 

Hospital reckons it is an adder bite, given antibiotics, antihistamines, some strong pain killers and a pair of crutches. I'm annoyed that I got bitten by one and didn't even get to see it


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Definitely looks/sounds like one from the distance between the two marks and the reaction you had!

Hope you heal up well  thankfully most adder bites are rarely much worse than this kind of reaction - not the lethal killers some people make 'em out to be! hehe


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## Lethalinjection-x

Thank you  The pucture marks have blistered now but the tablets have reduced the pain and redness somewhat. I'm just sad I didn't see it!


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Lethalinjection-x said:


> Thank you  The pucture marks have blistered now but the tablets have reduced the pain and redness somewhat. I'm just sad I didn't see it!


Sods law! :lol2:


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## joshg

got bit once years ago when I was young, don't remember much about it other than feeling sick and it itched like crazy


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## Naturally Wild

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> thankfully most adder bites are rarely much worse than this kind of reaction - not the lethal killers some people make 'em out to be! hehe


I could be much more blunt than I am going to be but I will keep it sensible.

You are taking rubbish!

Are you qualified or experienced enough to make such a statement?

Every adder bite or suspected bite must be viewed as potentially serious and the person MUST go to hospital so there own safety!

The person apparently bitten is taking an unnecessary risk in not going until the following day. 

as a general rule an envenomating bite form an adders is likely to reach is peak 12+ hours after the bite has occurred.

I hope the OP is ok but delays in seeking medical help and misinformation and seeking advice on a forum such as this is nuts.


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## Kuja

Naturally Wild said:


> I could be much more blunt than I am going to be but I will keep it sensible.
> 
> You are taking rubbish!
> 
> Are you qualified or experienced enough to make such a statement?
> 
> Every adder bite or suspected bite must be viewed as potentially serious and the person MUST go to hospital so there own safety!
> 
> The person apparently bitten is taking an unnecessary risk in not going until the following day.
> 
> as a general rule an envenomating bite form an adders is likely to reach is peak 12+ hours after the bite has occurred.
> 
> I hope the OP is ok but delays in seeking medical help and misinformation and seeking advice on a forum such as this is nuts.


considering no one has died in the uk by an adder bite for like 20 years, i don't think the statement was that bad, you have however jumped the boat a bit, re-read what was said lol, yes they should all be viewed as serious as it may cause death, a bit like a bee sting, or mauled by a bear or something...

However, as with all snakebites they vary from person to person, looks like this was a typical bite with the swelling and that, glad your ok though op, interesting to see!

also yeah id be gutted as well, snake has tagged you and remained hidden  gutting


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## gmccurdie

Thanks for sharing




Naturally Wild said:


> I could be much more blunt than I am going to be but I will keep it sensible.
> 
> You are taking rubbish!
> 
> Are you qualified or experienced enough to make such a statement?
> 
> Every adder bite or suspected bite must be viewed as potentially serious and the person MUST go to hospital so there own safety!
> 
> The person apparently bitten is taking an unnecessary risk in not going until the following day.
> 
> as a general rule an envenomating bite form an adders is likely to reach is peak 12+ hours after the bite has occurred.
> 
> I hope the OP is ok but delays in seeking medical help and misinformation and seeking advice on a forum such as this is nuts.





Kuja said:


> considering no one has died in the uk by an adder bite for like 20 years, i don't think the statement was that bad, you have however jumped the boat a bit, re-read what was said lol, yes they should all be viewed as serious as it may cause death, a bit like a bee sting, or mauled by a bear or something...
> 
> However, as with all snakebites they vary from person to person, looks like this was a typical bite with the swelling and that, glad your ok though op, interesting to see!
> 
> also yeah id be gutted as well, snake has tagged you and remained hidden  gutting


 
Each year, approximately 100 cases of adder bites are reported in the UK.
Adders sometimes bite without injecting any venom (‘dry’ bite) causing :

mild pain caused by the adder’s teeth puncturing the skin 
anxiety 
If an adder injects venom when it bites it can cause more serious symptoms including:

swelling and redness in the area of the bite 
nausea (feeling sick) 
vomiting 
faintness 
Since records began in 1876 there have only been 14 reported deaths as a result of adder bites, with the last death occurring in 1975.
Each year, fewer than 10 UK residents are bitten by foreign snakes, either captive ones kept in the country or while they are travelling abroad. 
This includes snakes held by private snake collectors in the UK. These snakes are thought to be responsible for a handful of snake bites in the UK each year. Most cases involve the snake's owner. (In my opinion we can take it as read that some owners would not report minor bites from embarrassment or fear of losing their DWAL)
A UK citizen died of a black mamba bite in Africa in 2006, but there has been no death from an exotic snake bite in the UK since the 19th century.
Worldwide, there are around 5 million snake bites every year.


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## gmccurdie

Lethalinjection-x said:


> I realise no one has replied yet, but just thought I'd update. I did go to hospital, as I checked the area again and the redness is darker and larger, and the pain is a lot worse.
> 
> Hospital reckons it is an adder bite, given antibiotics, antihistamines, some strong pain killers and a pair of crutches. I'm annoyed that I got bitten by one and didn't even get to see it


:2thumb: Glad your OK, Good War story for the pub:lol2:


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## gingersnap

Thanks for posting this, very interesting, especially as I live close to Coventy. I know there are adders around the area but still yet to see one. 

Hope the meds are working their magic for you!


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Naturally Wild said:


> I could be much more blunt than I am going to be but I will keep it sensible.
> 
> You are taking rubbish!
> 
> Are you qualified or experienced enough to make such a statement?
> 
> Every adder bite or suspected bite must be viewed as potentially serious and the person MUST go to hospital so there own safety!
> 
> The person apparently bitten is taking an unnecessary risk in not going until the following day.
> 
> as a general rule an envenomating bite form an adders is likely to reach is peak 12+ hours after the bite has occurred.
> 
> I hope the OP is ok but delays in seeking medical help and misinformation and seeking advice on a forum such as this is nuts.


Erm, yes. I've spent quite a few years working with venomous animals ranging from 'a bit iffy if you get bitten' to 'deadly, fatal'. I know about venom and first aid for envenomations.. 

And I didn't dissuade anyone from seeking medical attention, just merely stating that it was a pretty generic reaction to have from an adder bite, and they're NOT the death sentence most people seem to believe they are. Yes it's going to hurt and be EXTREMELY uncomfortable for quite some time, yes you ought to see a doctor - just in case of a bad reaction, and obviously to get some steroids and painkillers in you! But no, you're not likely to die, no they're not going to come out of the woods and eat your children and kill you within seconds of a bite. Their venom is GENERALLY nothing to worry yourself half to death over. Even anaphylaxis is unlikely to occur, unless you've been in contact with adder venom or something extremely similar previously - so don't pull that one either :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Janine00

gmccurdie said:


> Thanks for sharing
> 
> Each year, approximately 100 cases of adder bites are reported in the UK.
> 
> Adders sometimes bite without injecting any venom (‘dry’ bite) causing :
> 
> mild pain caused by the adder’s teeth puncturing the skin
> anxiety
> If an adder injects venom when it bites it can cause more serious symptoms including:
> 
> swelling and redness in the area of the bite
> nausea (feeling sick)
> vomiting
> faintness
> Since records began in 1876 there have only been 14 reported deaths as a result of adder bites, with the last death occurring in 1975.
> Each year, fewer than 10 UK residents are bitten by foreign snakes, either captive ones kept in the country or while they are travelling abroad.
> This includes snakes held by private snake collectors in the UK. These snakes are thought to be responsible for a handful of snake bites in the UK each year. Most cases involve the snake's owner. (In my opinion we can take it as read that some owners would not report minor bites from embarrassment or fear of losing their DWAL)
> A UK citizen died of a black mamba bite in Africa in 2006, but there has been no death from an exotic snake bite in the UK since the 19th century.
> Worldwide, there are around 5 million snake bites every year.


Very interesting facts there... may I ask where you cited these from, as if they are totally factual then they could be of some use to us when we argue our case against the anti's at times.

Also, we did have a death of a very well known member of our group last year, however, I am unclear of if this was due to envenomation or his heart gave out due to him having been ill for some years before he received his last bite. I think that this is more likely the case, however, am not sure. I certainly know he had been bitten by venemous before and lived to tell the tale. I also know that he adored the animals he worked with throughout his life and committed a lot of time and money to their conservation..... so he was not just 'another hobbyist', but a serious herper.

Personally I am still of the view that there are many more things in this country that are far more dangerous to us than our only native snake that has venom, and that is generally not deadly enough to kill most people. Dog bites are often far worse (and far more frequent) than very bad snake bites, and are more often of a danger to the public at large than their keeper.

I also appreciate that you have put up a picture of a bite by one of our own naturally occurring species that in my opinion, is of good quality communication around this subject.

Hope you don't feel too ill, and that the pain remains manageable... also that the area of the bite does not get any worse.... Many thanks for your post..... J


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## slippery42

Janine00 said:


> Very interesting facts there... may I ask where you cited these from, as if they are totally factual then they could be of some use to us when we argue our case against the anti's at times.
> 
> Also, we did have a death of a very well known member of our group last year, however, I am unclear of if this was due to envenomation or his heart gave out due to him having been ill for some years before he received his last bite. I think that this is more likely the case, however, am not sure. I certainly know he had been bitten by venemous before and lived to tell the tale. I also know that he adored the animals he worked with throughout his life and committed a lot of time and money to their conservation..... so he was not just 'another hobbyist', but a serious herper.
> 
> Personally I am still of the view that there are many more things in this country that are far more dangerous to us than our only native snake that has venom, and that is generally not deadly enough to kill most people. Dog bites are often far worse (and far more frequent) than very bad snake bites, and are more often of a danger to the public at large than their keeper.
> 
> I also appreciate that you have put up a picture of a bite by one of our own naturally occurring species that in my opinion, is of good quality communication around this subject.
> 
> Hope you don't feel too ill, and that the pain remains manageable... also that the area of the bite does not get any worse.... Many thanks for your post..... J


I may be wrong here but at the time of L's death he was not a private keeper and was in effect a zoo keeper (charging for access etc) so not a hobbyist in any form.

I believe the stats relate to envenomation from Adder and have no bearing on bites form non native but again may be wrong. In addition its beleived that many Adder bites go unreported so relying on the information is perhaps wrong.

Regardless of this there is clearly a lot of incorrect information about and having worked professionally with adders for 30+ years its quite a shock to here people describe an adder sting (yes some do call it a sting) as being like a wasp sting! 

A wasp the size of a cat I tell them!


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## gmccurdie

Janine00 said:


> Very interesting facts there... may I ask where you cited these from, as if they are totally factual then they could be of some use to us when we argue our case against the anti's at times.
> 
> Also, we did have a death of a very well known member of our group last year, however, I am unclear of if this was due to envenomation or his heart gave out due to him having been ill for some years before he received his last bite. I think that this is more likely the case, however, am not sure. I certainly know he had been bitten by venemous before and lived to tell the tale. I also know that he adored the animals he worked with throughout his life and committed a lot of time and money to their conservation..... so he was not just 'another hobbyist', but a serious herper.
> 
> Personally I am still of the view that there are many more things in this country that are far more dangerous to us than our only native snake that has venom, and that is generally not deadly enough to kill most people. Dog bites are often far worse (and far more frequent) than very bad snake bites, and are more often of a danger to the public at large than their keeper.
> 
> I also appreciate that you have put up a picture of a bite by one of our own naturally occurring species that in my opinion, is of good quality communication around this subject.
> 
> Hope you don't feel too ill, and that the pain remains manageable... also that the area of the bite does not get any worse.... Many thanks for your post..... J


Not responsible for picture or starting thread.

Stats are from NHS and DEFRA, as with most stats these will be reported incidents, however I don't see either having any reason to play the statistics.


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## gmccurdie

slippery42 said:


> I may be wrong here but at the time of L's death he was not a private keeper and was in effect a zoo keeper (charging for access etc) so not a hobbyist in any form.
> 
> I believe the stats relate to envenomation from Adder and have no bearing on bites form non native but again may be wrong. In addition its beleived that many Adder bites go unreported so relying on the information is perhaps wrong.
> 
> Regardless of this there is clearly a lot of incorrect information about and having worked professionally with adders for 30+ years its quite a shock to here people describe an adder sting (yes some do call it a sting) as being like a wasp sting!
> 
> A wasp the size of a cat I tell them!


Don't wish to enter into your discussion over this persons status, but would be intrested in knowing more?

Would like to know why/if a death from Snake Bite was not recorded on stats and if stats can be relied upon?


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## gmccurdie

Quick google

BBC News 29 June 2011

"The owner of a Nottinghamshire snake sanctuary has died after apparently being bitten by one of his own animals.
Luke Yeomans, 47, was due to open the King Cobra Sanctuary, in Eastwood, to the public this weekend.
Police confirmed they were called to a property in Brookhill Leys Road, near Eastwood, where Mr Yeomans had suffered a suspected heart attack.
Officers confirmed the snake had been contained and there was no danger to the public. 
Depleted habitat 
It was also confirmed the victim was pronounced dead at the scene.
The RSPCA, Health and Safety Executive and Broxtowe Borough Council have been informed of the incident.
Nottinghamshire Police said an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death was under way.
In an interview with the BBC earlier this year, Mr Yeomans said he had started the sanctuary in 2008, in reaction to the depletion of the snake's natural habitat in the forests of south-east Asia and India.
He said he had always been obsessed with snakes, catching his first adder at the age of seven and sharing his bedroom with a collection of gaboon vipers and Indian cobras in his teens.
At the age of 16 he opened his first pet shop, specialising in snakes and other reptiles and two years on he started to breed his own. 
Mr Yeomans compared his passion for snakes with other people's obsessions with fast cars.
"People do say that I am mad but I say it's better than people saying you're bad. I think everything I am doing is good," he said."

Can only assume *from this report* that the coroner *may* have concluded his death was the result of a heart attack.
It is acknowledged that some victims of snake bites are killed by their reaction to the anti venom, undetected medical conditions or shock.
I suppose it could be argued that they were still killed by the snake and would not have died, at that moment, if the snake had not bitten them.


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## slippery42

gmccurdie said:


> Don't wish to enter into your discussion over this persons status, but would be intrested in knowing more?
> 
> Would like to know why/if a death from Snake Bite was not recorded on stats and if stats can be relied upon?


Presume you are asking if I have personal knowledge of adders bites and I have never kept it other than open so yes I've been bitten and hospitalised twice in 30+ years working in the field with them.

First time was a basic mistake on my part and the second time I actually put my hand on a male that I'd not seen!

4 days in hospital!

The second part has got me puzzled as all I said is there are thought to be many bites that go unreported/recorded but no mention of deaths there.

Hope this clarifies but send me a pm if I am missing something


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## gmccurdie

slippery42 said:


> Presume you are asking if I have personal knowledge of adders bites and I have never kept it other than open so yes I've been bitten and hospitalised twice in 30+ years working in the field with them.
> 
> First time was a basic mistake on my part and the second time I actually put my hand on a male that I'd not seen!
> 
> 4 days in hospital!


Was not questioning your right to respond. You misread my reply; if you read it again you will see I was asking about the unfortunate person who died.




slippery42 said:


> The second part has got me puzzled as all I said is there are thought to be many bites that go unreported/recorded but no mention of deaths there.
> 
> Hope this clarifies but send me a pm if I am missing something


Was speaking of his death in 2011 

Fortunately I found the BBC news report, which tells me that this person kept venoms as a hobbyist before starting a Sanctuary which he was about to open to the public when this tragedy struck.

So I suppose technically/legally, not that it matters, you were both wrong. It was more than a hobby, but not yet a zoo.

Sorry you have been bitten.


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## gmccurdie

Janine00 said:


> Very interesting facts there... may I ask where you cited these from, as if they are totally factual then they could be of some use to us when we argue our case against the anti's at times.
> 
> Also, we did have a death of a very well known member of our group last year, however, I am unclear of if this was due to envenomation or his heart gave out due to him having been ill for some years before he received his last bite. I think that this is more likely the case, however, am not sure. I certainly know he had been bitten by venemous before and lived to tell the tale. I also know that he adored the animals he worked with throughout his life and committed a lot of time and money to their conservation..... so he was not just 'another hobbyist', but a serious herper.
> 
> Personally I am still of the view that there are many more things in this country that are far more dangerous to us than our only native snake that has venom, and that is generally not deadly enough to kill most people. Dog bites are often far worse (and far more frequent) than very bad snake bites, and are more often of a danger to the public at large than their keeper.
> 
> I also appreciate that you have put up a picture of a bite by one of our own naturally occurring species that in my opinion, is of good quality communication around this subject.
> 
> Hope you don't feel too ill, and that the pain remains manageable... also that the area of the bite does not get any worse.... Many thanks for your post..... J


Sorry not trying to hog the thread have split posts for clarity.

It would appear stats on the NHS site are reviewed every two years (last done 2010) so I don't know if your friends unfortunate death will appear this year after the review.


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## slippery42

gmccurdie said:


> So I suppose technically/legally, not that it matters, you were both wrong. It was more than a hobby, but not yet a zoo.


Dont possibly see how we were "both wrong" as the king cobra sanctuary charged a fee which effectively means it was in fact a zoo! If you charge people to view your collection it is licenced in a different manner as a hobbyist holding a standard DWA licence.


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## PESKY

slippery42 said:


> Dont possibly see how we were "both wrong" as the king cobra sanctuary charged a fee which effectively means it was in fact a zoo! If you charge people to view your collection it is licenced in a different manner as a hobbyist holding a standard DWA licence.


 

I think a lot of misundertsanding comes from the reports that say he was just about to open as a sanctuary when in reality he already had. iIpaid to go around a few weeks before and aslo paid to do some venomous handling/mentoring in the weeks running upto the unfortunate incident

he was a 'zoo' and definately wasn't a hobbyist


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## Naturally Wild

PESKY said:


> I think a lot of misundertsanding comes from the reports that say he was just about to open as a sanctuary when in reality he already had. iIpaid to go around a few weeks before and aslo paid to do some venomous handling/mentoring in the weeks running upto the unfortunate incident
> 
> he was a 'zoo' and definately wasn't a hobbyist


My last comment before I go and boil my head for fun is you are correct and have a clear understanding where as most on here clearly do not.


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## DavidR

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> Their venom is GENERALLY nothing to worry yourself half to death over. Even anaphylaxis is unlikely to occur, unless you've been in contact with adder venom or something extremely similar previously - so don't pull that one either :Na_Na_Na_Na:


What about anaphylactoid reactions? European vipers (including _berus_) are well known for triggering anaphylactoid shock. As I am sure you are aware, no previous exposure to venom is required, it is a direct effect of envenoming. 

In the last few years there have been some very serious adder bites in the UK, some that very nearly spoiled the 30+ year clean sheet. Adder bite should never be considered anything other than a medical emergency. It is fair to say that it is unlikely that a bitten person will die if they seek prompt medical treatment, but it is certainly not an impossibility. If you are the person that dies, you are unlikely to care how rare of an occurrence it is.

David.


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## Naturally Wild

DavidR said:


> What about anaphylactoid reactions? European vipers (including _berus_) are well known for triggering anaphylactoid shock. As I am sure you are aware, no previous exposure to venom is required, it is a direct effect of envenoming.
> 
> In the last few years there have been some very serious adder bites in the UK, some that very nearly spoiled the 30+ year clean sheet. Adder bite should never be considered anything other than a medical emergency. It is fair to say that it is unlikely that a bitten person will die if they seek prompt medical treatment, but it is certainly not an impossibility. If you are the person that dies, you are unlikely to care how rare of an occurrence it is.
> 
> David.


Thanks for adding that David, Princess what ever her name is obviously knows better than all others!

Perhaps I should post some images from my bite last year! 

But then again I'm not posting anymore on the subject


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## oscar96

Well if this is any help.

In a previous life the date 27 Feb 1875 I was walking home after watching
Royal Engineers draw 1–1 to Oxford University I found an adder put it in my pocket to show my friends at the orphanage and as a result I was bitten on the right test:censor: and died 2hours later. 

So I would say to the OP get to the hospital and get it checked out please


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## Janine00

oh blast (or some other such profanity)!! Can anyone explain to me (in simple terms and words of less than three syllables preferably) why when I only wear a size 4 shoe, almost every time I open my mouth, I put my size 11's in it?? :lol2:

Only wanted to ask where stats from so know that if I choose to (re)state them at any point in defence of some of the ludicrous accusations that the anti's sometimes make.

Also, as only have a pea sized brain, it never entered my poor simple mind to consider that most stats are at least one year behind.... did not mean to start a debate around L's death, nor his legal / hobbyist status etc... and apologise profusely here and now to anyone that was close to him that is upset by my reference to him and anything that stems from it! :blush:

I also visited his sanctuary just a few weeks before it was due to open fully and remember what he said on that day about where he was at in this perspective. However, to a large degree, I feel that debating the words I used and being fairly pedantic around this is, in this case, a little unwarranted.

I do agree with those who think that a bite from any venemous animal should be treated seriously - however, I understand everyones right to apply their own interpretation on this as long as they are prepared to put up with the consequences. However, I am also grateful that someone has posted a picture of what a bite *may* look like on some people, as I am naturally nosed, and still like to learn.

As I used to say in my teenage years, in the way of the world at that time.... Peace man.... : victory:

Footnote to self: remember that the interweb thingy is a very useful tool, but you cannot see into peoples eye's whilst posting your thoughts, therefore they cannot use other usually accepted social clues to help them understand the context of what is being expressed!


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Naturally Wild said:


> Thanks for adding that David, Princess what ever her name is obviously knows better than all others!


Pot, kettle, black....:whistling2:

Not claiming to be the world's expert, just stating that I'm not some inexperienced little schoolkid tapping away on a keyboard +roll eyes+ so untwist your knickers and calm down, Mr Expert.. Nobody is saying not to seek medical attention for an adder bite! Just that in the grand scheme of things, an adder bite is not _that_ bad when considering the toxicity of other venoms. End of. I was merely trying to make a point that the OP seems to be doing okay, and is our living proof that adders are not in the same category of danger as taipans, saw scale vipers, black mambas and such.. which a lot of people seem to group them in with as 'deadly, fatal' snakes. 

It dissapoints me to see people thinking of them as deadly and the influence on the general population and a large group of people who'd wish to eradicate them because they're 'dangerous' when really they aren't a huge threat to humans. Sorry, I just tend to get on a bit of a soap box over people who are like "OMGadders..FEARFEAR... they're vicious and will kill you!" They're shy, and yes they can bite, yes you should seek treatment as soon as possible, but no, you're not likely to die from a bite if you're getting it treated.

Who'd have thought a post about some unfortunate person being bitten would descend in to such ridiculous squabbling upon who's got the higher horses? I'd best dig my popcorn kernels from out the back of the cupboard.. +sigh+


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## slippery42

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> It dissapoints me to see people thinking of them as deadly and the influence on the general population and a large group of people who'd wish to eradicate them because they're 'dangerous' when really they aren't a huge threat to humans. Sorry, I just tend to get on a bit of a soap box over people who are like "OMGadders..FEARFEAR... they're vicious and will kill you!" They're shy, and yes they can bite, yes you should seek treatment as soon as possible, but no, you're not likely to die from a bite if you're getting it treated.


No one is trying to instill fear in the public that is the last thing I would want. I have worked with adders professionally for over 30 years and am passionate and committed to conservation of the species.

Enough said!


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## PrincessStegosaurus

slippery42 said:


> No one is trying to instill fear in the public that is the last thing I would want. I have worked with adders professionally for over 30 years and am passionate and committed to conservation of the species.
> 
> Enough said!


:2thumb: they are lovely little snakes. Jealous! Sadly, I no longer work with scaley beasties... I'm locked away in a lab instead.


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## Kuja

oh dear this one turned nasty fast 

Hope you're OK Laura, any news? hopefully the swelling has gone by now!


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## Naturally Wild

Kuja said:


> oh dear this one turned nasty fast


I dont see anything nasty here?

Just people trying to give sound accurate advice!


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## Lethalinjection-x

I'm still alive  

I've taken a few pictures since the event, the redness went in two days but some swelling still remains. I could bear no weight at all for 3 days, but I can walk fine now. Extremely itchy the past couple of days though! I forgot to take my tablets today (oops) and the pain returned, so I don't think this would be at all pleasant if I hadn't have gone to hospital. 

As for the hospital, I did post to say I had been. I was seen by a nurse on entry to A&E, to be told that adders aren't venomous. I told him they most definitely are, and he just shook his head and walked out. 3 further nurses came to gawp at me, all of them "confirming" they aren't venomous. My mom had a little mantra going "she's a snake person, and she's training to be a vet, she likes snakes". Still didn't believe me. I waited for almost 4 hours, during which time a nurse asked my why I'd let my snake out if I knew it bit, I explained that adders were wild snakes, and she then told me there are NO snakes in this country. Eventually, an Indian doctor saw me and said the bite looked like a "nice version" of bites he'd seen in India, and that the wound was from a snake, FINALLY.

I'd also like to add that I don't like to waste anyone's time, so I came online to check whether protocol was A&E visit before I went >.< I'm glad I did though, it was AGONY. 

It's a shame that everything got heated  I'm still saddened by the aforementioned death, as I visited the last weekend before it happened, awful.


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## Naturally Wild

Lethalinjection-x said:


> I'm still alive
> 
> I've taken a few pictures since the event, the redness went in two days but some swelling still remains. I could bear no weight at all for 3 days, but I can walk fine now. Extremely itchy the past couple of days though! I forgot to take my tablets today (oops) and the pain returned, so I don't think this would be at all pleasant if I hadn't have gone to hospital.
> 
> As for the hospital, I did post to say I had been. I was seen by a nurse on entry to A&E, to be told that adders aren't venomous. I told him they most definitely are, and he just shook his head and walked out. 3 further nurses came to gawp at me, all of them "confirming" they aren't venomous. My mom had a little mantra going "she's a snake person, and she's training to be a vet, she likes snakes". Still didn't believe me. I waited for almost 4 hours, during which time a nurse asked my why I'd let my snake out if I knew it bit, I explained that adders were wild snakes, and she then told me there are NO snakes in this country. Eventually, an Indian doctor saw me and said the bite looked like a "nice version" of bites he'd seen in India, and that the wound was from a snake, FINALLY.
> 
> I'd also like to add that I don't like to waste anyone's time, so I came online to check whether protocol was A&E visit before I went >.< I'm glad I did though, it was AGONY.
> 
> It's a shame that everything got heated  I'm still saddened by the aforementioned death, as I visited the last weekend before it happened, awful.


you need to make a formal complaint to the hospital involved! 

Those involved need to "corrected"!

One can only imagine what would have happened if you had taken a bad hit!

Please Please complain to your hospital!


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## Kuja

Seems it wasn't a dry bite ah well all character building 

and i do agree, the hospital really needs a kick in the :censor: not to mention i thought everyone knew they are venomous lol, i was told in infants school to watch out for them o,0 for that very reason lol.

Glad your ok!


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## daftlassieEmma

Lethalinjection-x said:


> I was seen by a nurse on entry to A&E, to be told that adders aren't venomous. I told him they most definitely are, and he just shook his head and walked out. 3 further nurses came to gawp at me, all of them "confirming" they aren't venomous. My mom had a little mantra going "she's a snake person, and she's training to be a vet, she likes snakes". Still didn't believe me. I waited for almost 4 hours, during which time a nurse asked my why I'd let my snake out if I knew it bit, I explained that adders were wild snakes, and she then told me there are NO snakes in this country. Eventually, an Indian doctor saw me and said the bite looked like a "nice version" of bites he'd seen in India, and that the wound was from a snake, FINALLY.


Just...wow :|

Definately complain, be careful some shoddy newspaper doesn't turn it into an "OMG HIDE YOUR CHILDREN DEADLY UK ADDERS WILL EAT YOUR FACE" piece. :lol2: 

Good to hear you're okay


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## Mynki

Naturally Wild said:


> I could be much more blunt than I am going to be but I will keep it sensible.
> 
> You are taking rubbish!
> 
> Are you qualified or experienced enough to make such a statement?
> 
> Every adder bite or suspected bite must be viewed as potentially serious and the person MUST go to hospital so there own safety!
> 
> The person apparently bitten is taking an unnecessary risk in not going until the following day.
> 
> as a general rule an envenomating bite form an adders is likely to reach is peak 12+ hours after the bite has occurred.
> 
> I hope the OP is ok but delays in seeking medical help and misinformation and* seeking advice on a forum such as this is nuts*.


An interesting first post. Rubbish a forum before introducing yourself and stating what qualifies you to make such statements etc. Whilst I agree anyone who has been bitten by a venemous snake should seek professional medical advise immediately, I can't help but wonder if such an aggresive post from yourself will put people off listening to your advice? 

The forum has a number of experts posting on it, Mark O'Shea and Paul Rowley are two names of note. The latter being the head herpetologist at the London shool of tropical medicine. A world renowned institute when it comes to producing anti venom. Sadly the former, always came in for stick when he posted due to know it all and wannabees trying to argue, suggesting that they knew everything etc. Which is a real shame.


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Mynki said:


> An interesting first post. Rubbish a forum before introducing yourself and stating what qualifies you to make such statements etc. Whilst I agree anyone who has been bitten by a venemous snake should seek professional medical advise immediately, I can't help but wonder if such an aggresive post from yourself will put people off listening to your advice?
> 
> The forum has a number of experts posting on it, Mark O'Shea and Paul Rowley are two names of note. The latter being the head herpetologist at the London shool of tropical medicine. A world renowned institute when it comes to producing anti venom. Sadly the former, always came in for stick when he posted due to know it all and wannabees trying to argue, suggesting that they knew everything etc. Which is a real shame.


:flrt:You speak my shy mind.


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## Naturally Wild

oh dear someone else who has not checked my background.

never mind as I said before this was never about having a pop at the OP it was about giving advice based upon past expereience and 30+ years background.

Rather than quote fellow herpers please read what I have actually said rather than trying to "diss" me.

I have posted hundreds of time on the forum under my normal forum name, however I cannot post from my laptop on that name hence the new account.

If you care to read the last post you will see that I have suggested that the OP complain to their Local heath authority as the lack of action taken is clealry 100% wrong.

If the last poster MYNKI is that pissed with my post do a google search and then make your comment.

If you are that ticked off please see me in person at Dudley Zoo this sunday where I am giving a talk!

I do not need to reply to you comment as I have studied and worked with Adders for 30+ years and although I do not know everything and can always learn more can you say the same!


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## colinm

Lethalinjection-x said:


> I'm still alive


Good news and an interesting report.Can I suggest that you change your user name?
Bad karma,asking for trouble and all that stuff :gasp:


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## Mynki

Naturally Wild said:


> oh dear someone else who has not checked my background.
> 
> never mind as I said before this was never about having a pop at the OP it was about giving advice based upon past expereience and 30+ years background.
> 
> Rather than quote fellow herpers please read what I have actually said rather than trying to "diss" me.
> 
> I have posted hundreds of time on the forum under my normal forum name, however I cannot post from my laptop on that name hence the new account.
> 
> If you care to read the last post you will see that I have suggested that the OP complain to their Local heath authority as the lack of action taken is clealry 100% wrong.
> 
> If the last poster MYNKI is that pissed with my post do a google search and then make your comment.
> 
> If you are that ticked off please see me in person at Dudley Zoo this sunday where I am giving a talk!
> 
> I do not need to reply to you comment as I have studied and worked with Adders for 30+ years and although I do not know everything and can always learn more can you say the same!


I think you should reread my post. You're very much mistaken if you think I'm 'pissed'. Why on earth would I be? If you read the post, engage brain beforehand though you may note that I state without any introduction you will appear aggresive and thus people will not take you seriously.

With no introduction or explanation you come across as a wanabee with a massive chip on your shoulder. Read your first post again and think how it comes across to other forum members. 

If you are so arrogant as to assume people will recognise you immediately as you're other user name then you are sadly mistaken.

Thanks for the offer, but Dudley Zoo is not an establishment I'd choose to support due to various ethical issues. And secondly, do you really think that real people get so upset with forum user names that they feel the need to meet people in real life? :lol2:

If you do, may I suggest a course in anger management?


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## Naturally Wild

Mynki said:


> I think you should reread my post. You're very much mistaken if you think I'm 'pissed'. Why on earth would I be? If you read the post, engage brain beforehand though you may note that I state without any introduction you will appear aggresive and thus people will not take you seriously.
> 
> With no introduction or explanation you come across as a wanabee with a massive chip on your shoulder. Read your first post again and think how it comes across to other forum members.
> 
> If you are so arrogant as to assume people will recognise you immediately as you're other user name then you are sadly mistaken.
> 
> Thanks for the offer, but Dudley Zoo is not an establishment I'd choose to support due to various ethical issues. And secondly, do you really think that real people get so upset with forum user names that they feel the need to meet people in real life? :lol2:
> 
> If you do, may I suggest a course in anger management?


Oh dear get a life comes to mind............


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## Mynki

Naturally Wild said:


> Oh dear get a life comes to mind............


Well I hope your public speaking is more professional, courteous and informative than your public posting. The paying public will expect so much more. :whistling2:


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## Naturally Wild

Mynki said:


> Well I hope your public speaking is more professional, courteous and informative than your public posting. The paying public will expect so much more. :whistling2:


Sorry the last post I will put is this......

I have not been discourteous, I may be a little spikey at times, I care passionately about adder conservation and make no apologies to that fact. I am more than happy to discuss my views with anyone and if you take time to read my numerous posts you will find whilst I have little time for certain people I undertake education and training regularly.

I certainly have no anger issues so please chill.

best wishes

G


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## PrincessStegosaurus

:whip: +throws bucket of cold water+ end of argument peoples, end of argument! Everyone love adders, the end.

Edit: even the bitey ones.


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## Mynki

Naturally Wild said:


> Sorry the last post I will put is this......
> 
> I have not been discourteous, I may be a little spikey at times, I care passionately about adder conservation and make no apologies to that fact. I am more than happy to discuss my views with anyone and if you take time to read my numerous posts you will find whilst I have little time for certain people I undertake education and training regularly.
> 
> I certainly have no anger issues so please chill.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> G


Dear G

The point you have missed is that people will not know who you are., You insinuate you have another account but do not appear to have named that account. If you are assuming that the entire RFUK community will bother to investigate who you are, I think you're mistaken. You assume that everyone knows what you do. 

So how can people read your other posts? 

I'm completely chilled. I'm mildly amused if anything, so I'm unsure as to why you think I need to chill. 

Lets get rid of the secresy and confusion, what is your other forum name? Answering should stop further unnecessary posts. 

Best
Mynki


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## Naturally Wild

Mynki said:


> Dear G
> 
> The point you have missed is that people will not know who you are., You insinuate you have another account but do not appear to have named that account. If you are assuming that the entire RFUK community will bother to investigate who you are, I think you're mistaken. You assume that everyone knows what you do.
> 
> So how can people read your other posts?
> 
> I'm completely chilled. I'm mildly amused if anything, so I'm unsure as to why you think I need to chill.
> 
> Lets get rid of the secresy and confusion, what is your other forum name? Answering should stop further unnecessary posts.
> 
> Best
> Mynki


The only reason for the second account is I cannot access the main account from home is a diffo computer (tried numerous times and gave up)

anyway truce time?

regards


Slippery 42


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## Lethalinjection-x

Another update:

My whole foot is now dark purple. It came on in a matter of about 3 hours, so I went back to A&E. I was laughed at by the first doctor who told me AGAIN there aren't snakes in this country, and sent me for an unexplained x-ray. I told him that while I humoured him and did that, he should check google. I assured him he'd find endless information on adders within seconds. 

The x-ray staff were really nice, and one of them said she has adders in her garden (finally!) and she took photos of my foot to show her kids why they should leave them alone, I'm educational  haha. 

Went back to the doctor I suggested the google search to, and he said I "appeared to be correct" and that the x-ray was clear... what a surprise. I'm now on a new course of antibiotics, with a follow-up appointment on Monday. I've been told if there isn't marked improvement I'll be admitted but they were vague as to what would happen to me if I was. 

I'm appalled with the lack of knowledge of UK wildlife, we only have one venomous snake, surely someone should make sure all nurses and doctors know procedures regarding it?! Typing a complaint up as I speak


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## Lethalinjection-x

That's the bite the day after I went to hospital the first time, so 2 days after it happened.










That's my foot currently. I assure you it's swollen, my foot doesn't normally look quite that gross 
You can see the black dots that are the puncture marks on my ankle.

Not really sure what's going on with it now. I'm keeping up with the tablets, but the hospital staff didn't really explain anything greatly *sigh*


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## PDR

Mynki said:


> An interesting first post. Rubbish a forum before introducing yourself and stating what qualifies you to make such statements etc. Whilst I agree anyone who has been bitten by a venemous snake should seek professional medical advise immediately, I can't help but wonder if such an aggresive post from yourself will put people off listening to your advice?
> 
> The forum has a number of experts posting on it, Mark O'Shea and Paul Rowley are two names of note. The latter being the head herpetologist at the London shool of tropical medicine. A world renowned institute when it comes to producing anti venom. Sadly the former, always came in for stick when he posted due to know it all and wannabees trying to argue, suggesting that they knew everything etc. Which is a real shame.


Its the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine (not London) and I'm the only Herpetologist there. Yes your right, I rarely post on forums because of "Armchair experts" :whistling2:


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## Lethalinjection-x

Just a thought. The farm my boyfriend lives on (where I got bitten), has both grass snakes and adders. There have been many sightings this year, more so than any years previously. Problem is, I have a large dog and so does my boyfriend - obviously, having the private tracks between farms and respecting fields means the dogs get to have long offlead walks/runs (it is an arable farm, no livestock to pester). I don't want to leash up the hounds as they can only run free there (big dogs frighten the public, it seems), but I would hate for them to injure a snake or get bitten by an adder like I was 

So far, the dogs haven't made any scaley enemies, but is there a way the snakes could be encouraged to go to a certain area - like you would encourage frogs etc. by putting in a pond? I have no idea about this at all but it would be nice if the snakes and dogs could both enjoy the land there, as it's free of people


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## Kuja

Could try offering cover for them, bits of flat wood and zinc etc work well(or car doors around here lmao)

however, as its a farm i suspect they are attracted by the mice and other such loveys living there, so i don't know if providing alternative hiding sources will make much of an impact, hopefully someone who has relocated and worked with them can offer more advice than myself!

Again glad everything is ok and im still shocked at how :censor:the hospital was


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## PrincessStegosaurus

Which hospital is it you're attending? I'm appauled at how they're treating you. Is it possible for you to travel elsewhere if you need to be admitted? It may well be worth it if you need to be treated as an inpatient. I'd be extremely nervous of allowing medics who are using google to find out about my condition anywhere near me! Alternatively, you could contact Liverpool or London Trop Medicine/Disease and request that they contact the hospital on your behalf? At least then you'd have a medical expert on 'call' so to speak. I hope you feel better soon.


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## Lethalinjection-x

I did think that. There are two very large muck/compost heaps that are teeming with snakes which the dogs are not allowed near but the whole farm seems to be crawling now. It's probably not possible to make them want to hang around in one place, but never mind!

I've been going to Birmingham City Hospital so far, as it's only 2 minutes drive from where I've been staying. It's not well known for excellence but I didn't expect the reception I got to be quite so bad. I'm in the process of writing everything out to send to them - glad I posted it on here now really as I have a set of reminders too. I know everyone complains about waiting times and things like that (people only ever remember the negative things it seems) but I really don't like the lack of knowledge I've faced, and I think they ought to be aware even if bites are uncommon. 

I'm studying in London, and I'm popping back on Monday so I was planning to ask about being transferred to the Royal Free or something as that's near me there. Hopefully I won't need to be admitted anywhere though as the redness is disappearing again now. It did flare up really bad so I was quite worried about it. I've not panicked about dying or anything but I've NEVER reacted to a bite of any sort (insects etc.) and never been stung by a bee/wasp, so this was all very alien


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